--- Log opened Fri Mar 01 00:00:06 2013
2013-03-01T00:01:39 < Laurenceb_> just got email from work asking how much do licences cost for linux and where do you buy them from...
2013-03-01T00:02:13 < zyp> ok
2013-03-01T00:02:37 < Laurenceb_> maybe i should set up a fake company
2013-03-01T00:02:44 < Laurenceb_>  "Linux gold account"
2013-03-01T00:05:20 < Laurenceb_> "Linux8 Metro"
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2013-03-01T00:16:44 < Erlkoenig> Laurenceb_: like Redhat? :D
2013-03-01T00:22:49 -!- os-app92 [~ftw@77.195.170.67] has quit [Quit: Hi, I am Franz.]
2013-03-01T00:22:56 < Laurenceb_> http://hackaday.com/2013/02/28/hacking-a-ham-radio/#comments
2013-03-01T00:23:07 < Laurenceb_> "He didn’t have an amateur radio license, so he decided to use it as a police scanner"
2013-03-01T00:23:13 < Laurenceb_> mark of a true hacker
2013-03-01T00:32:27 < emeb> the RDA1846 walkie-talkie transceiver chip they mention looks interesting. 2M / 70cm coverage.
2013-03-01T00:32:41 < emeb> Wish that the datasheet wasn't by-request only.
2013-03-01T00:34:46 < emeb> Damn- that Baofeng HT is cheap - $65. Wonder if it's worth a crap.
2013-03-01T00:36:53 < emeb> random reviews on the web suggest not.
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2013-03-01T00:52:12 < dirty_d> this pino thing is pretty awesome for compile time stuff, http://codepad.org/eRNSC4NX
2013-03-01T00:52:57 < dirty_d> now all my usb descriptor constexpr functions can actually all evaluate at compile time
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2013-03-01T00:54:58 < Laurenceb_> but does it compile in eclipse
2013-03-01T00:55:01 < Laurenceb_>  /troll
2013-03-01T00:55:22 < dirty_d> pshhhh
2013-03-01T00:55:44 < Laurenceb_> think ill tell eclipse guy to head on here and ask for help if he still can't make it work tomorrow
2013-03-01T00:56:46 -!- DaKu is now known as daku
2013-03-01T00:58:03 < dirty_d> whaaat
2013-03-01T00:58:10 < Laurenceb_> free IT support...
2013-03-01T01:01:12 < dirty_d> yeaaaa
2013-03-01T01:02:13 < Erlkoenig> dirty_d: using a source preprocessor?
2013-03-01T01:07:12 < gxti> free insults
2013-03-01T01:08:13 < Erlkoenig> i want one
2013-03-01T01:13:13 < Laurenceb_> gxti: yeah hopefully dongs will troll him out of existance
2013-03-01T01:13:28 < Laurenceb_> he works on the 12th floor of a high rise so that might work
2013-03-01T01:14:02 < Laurenceb_> AN HERO
2013-03-01T01:14:43 < GargantuaSauce> eclipse makes me want to off myself too
2013-03-01T01:15:10 < dirty_d> Erlkoenig, yea i am its called pino
2013-03-01T01:15:11 < dirty_d> very simple
2013-03-01T01:15:32 < dirty_d> its like 300 lines of python
2013-03-01T01:16:20 < dirty_d> im finding it very useful
2013-03-01T01:16:23 < zyp> heh
2013-03-01T01:16:57 < zyp> «very simple» «300 lines of python»
2013-03-01T01:17:19 < dirty_d> that i didnt write
2013-03-01T01:17:20 < dirty_d> lol
2013-03-01T01:17:28 < dirty_d> but for a preprocessor i dont think thats bad
2013-03-01T01:17:39 < dirty_d> id only limit it for use in header files though
2013-03-01T01:18:13 < dirty_d> since you really only want to work on the *.*.pino files and let the preprocessor generate the real ones
2013-03-01T01:18:47 < dirty_d> well i guess its not a big deal actually
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2013-03-01T01:18:54 < dirty_d> the degubber will just use the latest generated ones
2013-03-01T01:19:23 < dirty_d> but line numbers will differ if youre looking at the pre and processed versions which could lead to confusion sometimes i guess
2013-03-01T01:19:24 < zyp> I have a qt application communicating with my usb device, receiving events from a midi controller and drawing graphs with opengl all with less than 300 lines of python :p
2013-03-01T01:20:40 < Erlkoenig> i did source code generation before too... and it's evil, in C++11 one should be able to calculate/generate much stuff using just the C++ Compiler
2013-03-01T01:20:56 < dirty_d> Erlkoenig, you can do a lot, but there are limitations
2013-03-01T01:21:18 < Erlkoenig> templates are turing complete so... you can generate everything :D
2013-03-01T01:21:31 < dirty_d> i had no clean way to generate a device descriptor thats also a constant expression that could also be parsed by constexpr functions
2013-03-01T01:21:54 < Erlkoenig> generate it via constexpr functions...?
2013-03-01T01:21:58 < dirty_d> yea but templates are confusing and ugly as hell unless theyre simple and used for the purposes they were originally intended for
2013-03-01T01:22:05 < Erlkoenig> huehue
2013-03-01T01:22:08 < dirty_d> id call modern use of templates a huge hack
2013-03-01T01:22:26 < dirty_d> only the person that wrote them understands the code, and a week later even they wont
2013-03-01T01:22:27 < dirty_d> lol
2013-03-01T01:22:51 < Erlkoenig> what do you need to calculate/generate that can't be easily done in C/C++ directly?
2013-03-01T01:23:02 < Erlkoenig> your code looks like you're just initializing a struct...
2013-03-01T01:23:17 < dirty_d> Erlkoenig, no its a uint8_t [] array
2013-03-01T01:23:33 < Erlkoenig> you can fill in a struct and cast it into a uint8_t array :D
2013-03-01T01:23:37 < dirty_d> you can use constexpr functions and templates to create structs like zyp did
2013-03-01T01:23:52 < dirty_d> Erlkoenig, casting is not allowed in constant expressions
2013-03-01T01:24:21 < Erlkoenig> well uh you just need to cast where you need the data in uint8_t format, i.e. the USB callback functions...
2013-03-01T01:24:35 < dirty_d> Erlkoenig, right thats at runtime though
2013-03-01T01:24:47 < Erlkoenig> yup, so you don't need casting at compile time
2013-03-01T01:24:53 < dirty_d> doing it like this everything i need from the descriptor is evaluated at compile time and generates no runtime code
2013-03-01T01:25:06 < zyp> don't be silly
2013-03-01T01:25:18 < Erlkoenig> yes but that should be possible using just a struct should be possible too
2013-03-01T01:25:19 < dirty_d> i <3 efficiency
2013-03-01T01:25:23 < zyp> a cast doesn't generate runtime code
2013-03-01T01:25:30 < Erlkoenig> exactly...
2013-03-01T01:25:34 < dirty_d> zyp, thats not what im saying
2013-03-01T01:25:52 < dirty_d> im saying you cant have a cast in a constant expression
2013-03-01T01:25:58 < zyp> my way doesn't generate any runtime code either :p
2013-03-01T01:26:08 < Erlkoenig> you don't need to cast in any constant expression this way...!
2013-03-01T01:26:20 < Erlkoenig> just keep it as a struct the whole compile time
2013-03-01T01:26:26 < dirty_d> zyp, i know, but you also cant query the properties of the struct
2013-03-01T01:26:26 < Erlkoenig> in all const expressions
2013-03-01T01:26:36 < Erlkoenig> also, you can just use an union to avoid casting alltogether...
2013-03-01T01:26:39 < dirty_d> at compile time
2013-03-01T01:26:52 < zyp> dirty_d, I remember your code, the problem was that you were trying to do something silly.
2013-03-01T01:27:50 < gxti> i could solve every problem if only i could add another layer of abstraction...
2013-03-01T01:27:52 < dirty_d> Erlkoenig, im not sure that you can generate that with templates and constexpr functions
2013-03-01T01:28:29 < dirty_d> zyp, you need to specify things that dont really have anything to do with your driver class
2013-03-01T01:28:33 < dirty_d> so you have to define them somewhere
2013-03-01T01:28:37 < dirty_d> might as well all be in one place
2013-03-01T01:28:49 < dirty_d> and at compile time, since its all known then
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2013-03-01T01:29:17 < Erlkoenig> well uhm i don't know exactly what you want to do with your struct, but e.g. the ST USB Example code is rather elegant and doesn't use preprocessoring AND generates a const uint8_t array
2013-03-01T01:29:35 < dirty_d> Erlkoenig, how does it do that?
2013-03-01T01:29:49 < zyp> Erlkoenig, the problem was that he was generating a struct, casting it to a byte buffer, then parsing it again
2013-03-01T01:29:53 < Erlkoenig> look at it :D mostly just plain C, and a few macros if i remember correctly
2013-03-01T01:30:24 < zyp> and putting a descriptor parser into device side code is pretty silly, even for compile time :p
2013-03-01T01:30:27 < Erlkoenig> zyp: parsing? oO ... that would be avoided by using a struct...
2013-03-01T01:30:59 < dirty_d> its not really parsing
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2013-03-01T01:31:38 < zyp> dirty_d was all «hey, I just want to write the descriptors, and then have the class drivers be instanced and configured automatically from the descriptors»
2013-03-01T01:32:10 < Erlkoenig> this would be simplified by using a large struct and casting it into a byte array when needing to send it via USB
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2013-03-01T01:32:21 < zyp> yep
2013-03-01T01:33:12 < Erlkoenig> i don't get why he needs to cast the struct in a constexpr function...
2013-03-01T01:33:52 < zyp> implementation limitation
2013-03-01T01:34:40 < zyp> my implementation works like you are talking about
2013-03-01T01:35:16 < Erlkoenig> look, ima as clever as you
2013-03-01T01:35:26 < zyp> http://cgit.jvnv.net/laks_demo/tree/main.cpp?h=usb_cdc_acm <- dev_desc and conf_desc are structs generated from constexpr functions, dev_desc_p and conf_desc_p are pointers to them
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2013-03-01T01:36:32 < Erlkoenig> where's interface_desc defined?
2013-03-01T01:36:54 < Erlkoenig> the lines for conf_desc look pretty ^^
2013-03-01T01:37:00 < zyp> http://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usb/descriptor.h#n105
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2013-03-01T01:38:30 < Erlkoenig> wow, that's some nice usage of C++11
2013-03-01T01:38:34 < Erlkoenig> pretty cool
2013-03-01T01:40:08 < zyp> nicest part is the calculation of wTotalLength in conf descriptor, saves me from doing the math by hand :)
2013-03-01T01:40:39 < Erlkoenig> oh yeah... very nice :D
2013-03-01T01:41:19 < zyp> I've considered a way of doing bNumInterfaces and bNumEndpoints automatically as well, because I frequently forget to change them when I add or remove stuff :p
2013-03-01T01:42:33 < Erlkoenig> hm, using a special version of pack() instead or something...
2013-03-01T01:42:48 < Erlkoenig> that counts the number of endpoints instead number of bytes or something
2013-03-01T01:43:36 < zyp> I was thinking about just adding an enum to X, containing the number of contained endpoints, which would be incremented by pack() for every packed endpoint
2013-03-01T01:44:47 < zyp> but yeah, just a function for counting recursively probably also works
2013-03-01T01:45:27 < zyp> but it's not too important, I'm not going to do it that way anyway
2013-03-01T01:45:42 < dirty_d> Erlkoenig, the reason im not using a struct is that its just not a fixed size thing
2013-03-01T01:45:47 < dirty_d> its a hierarchy of structs
2013-03-01T01:46:12 < zyp> I don't like the idea of having to write descriptors at all
2013-03-01T01:46:22 < dirty_d> yea have to to some extent
2013-03-01T01:46:49 < dirty_d> there are a lot of things in them that dont have much to do with what your class actually does
2013-03-01T01:47:02 < dirty_d> so it cant know what to generate for everything
2013-03-01T01:47:20 < zyp> it quickly turns hairy anyway when you have to support multiple speeds
2013-03-01T01:47:37 < dirty_d> this is the least complex part of the whole deal anyway
2013-03-01T01:47:45 < dirty_d> so im not gonna bother trying to make it simpler
2013-03-01T01:47:47 < zyp> the same descriptors are generally not usable both in FS and HS modes
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2013-03-01T01:48:58 < dirty_d> i kinda feel like theyre two separate things anyway
2013-03-01T01:49:05 < dirty_d> the descriptor sorta fdefines what your device is
2013-03-01T01:49:08 < dirty_d> and the class what it does
2013-03-01T01:49:10 < zyp> in FS, bulk MPS can't be more than 64 bytes, in HS bulk MPS have to be 512 bytes
2013-03-01T01:49:17 < zyp> no, they are not
2013-03-01T01:49:41 < dirty_d> i gotta get out here
2013-03-01T01:49:43 < dirty_d> time for trivia
2013-03-01T01:50:13 < zyp> HS devices are generally also FS capable, so what it is depends on what the host makes it enumerate at
2013-03-01T01:50:32 < zyp> that's why they can fall back to FS on older computers
2013-03-01T01:51:49 < zyp> same goes for SS devices, although I'm probably not going to run my stack on any SS capable chips any time soon :p
2013-03-01T01:53:07 < zyp> 00:47:37 < dirty_d> this is the least complex part of the whole deal anyway
2013-03-01T01:53:14 < zyp> I'm not talking about complexity
2013-03-01T01:53:19 < zyp> I'm talking about tediousness
2013-03-01T01:55:31 < zyp> if I write a generic ACM driver I want the driver to generate the descriptors needed for the two interfaces
2013-03-01T01:56:11 < zyp> there is nothing in those two interfaces that the driver can't decide on its own, knowing the device speed
2013-03-01T01:57:43 < zyp> and then I can just instance that class three times if I want to make some device with three virtual serial ports, no need to muck with descriptors when I just want to make some device
2013-03-01T02:00:41 < dongs> sup dongs
2013-03-01T02:00:59 < dongs> < Erlkoenig> wow, that's some nice usage of C++11
2013-03-01T02:01:10 < dongs> more like, wow thats some nice usage of shit that nothing except gcc will ever use
2013-03-01T02:01:25 < Erlkoenig> MS VC++ supports C++11, too
2013-03-01T02:01:43 < Erlkoenig> C++11 actually has some very useful features
2013-03-01T02:03:58 < zyp> dongs is just angry because he can't steal my code and stuff it into keil
2013-03-01T02:04:18 < Erlkoenig> bwaha
2013-03-01T02:04:50 < dongs> also true
2013-03-01T02:05:08 < dongs> zyp, preventing theft of opensores into commercial products since 2013
2013-03-01T02:06:27 < Laurenceb_> also true of eclipse
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2013-03-01T02:13:37 < Jenev> hello
2013-03-01T02:14:20 < Jenev> i need need to drive a mosfet with the stm32f4 discovery but the mosfet is activated by 5V as opposed to the 3V i'm getting from the output pins
2013-03-01T02:14:32 < Laurenceb_> lolpwned
2013-03-01T02:14:34 < Jenev> is there anyway to drive the output pins at 5V?
2013-03-01T02:14:38 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-01T02:14:44 < Laurenceb_> but im not telling you
2013-03-01T02:14:53 < Jenev> Laurenceb, why not?
2013-03-01T02:15:00 < Laurenceb_> cuz im a troll
2013-03-01T02:15:01 < Jenev> the suspence is killing me
2013-03-01T02:15:08 < Jenev> -_-
2013-03-01T02:15:22 < Jenev> we have a troll over ^^^^
2013-03-01T02:15:24 < Jenev> lol
2013-03-01T02:15:30 < Jenev> *here
2013-03-01T02:15:39 < Laurenceb_> trololololololol
2013-03-01T02:15:55 < BrainDamage> use 5V tollerant pins and a pullup resistor
2013-03-01T02:16:05 < Laurenceb_> rageeeeee
2013-03-01T02:16:14 < dongs> yeah use a gate driver
2013-03-01T02:16:15 < Laurenceb_> you told him :(
2013-03-01T02:16:37 < BrainDamage> your "trolling" was pathetic
2013-03-01T02:16:53 < Laurenceb_> i know
2013-03-01T02:17:00 < Laurenceb_> i need to raise my standards
2013-03-01T02:19:21 < Jenev> BrainDamage, oh yea...I should have thought about that -_-
2013-03-01T02:20:32 < Laurenceb_> nice
2013-03-01T02:20:54  * Laurenceb_ has firefox pdf viewer 
2013-03-01T02:22:11 < Laurenceb_> but it makes my crappy widescreen laptop even more letterbox like
2013-03-01T02:22:33  * Laurenceb_ zzz
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2013-03-01T02:27:47 < ds2> get a better MOSFET
2013-03-01T02:27:58 < ds2> 3.3V Vthresh MOSFETs are not that rare
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2013-03-01T02:36:45 < dongs> depends on what hes doing, stm32 can't deliver a lot of current into the gate anyway
2013-03-01T02:36:49 < dongs> unless we're talkin small shit
2013-03-01T02:37:13 < dongs> when i was doing esc  prototype wiht stm32 i used gpio direct to low side for switching
2013-03-01T02:37:19 < dongs> and switch times were horrible
2013-03-01T02:38:54 < ds2> then isn't a 1.8V MOSFET better for that?
2013-03-01T02:39:11 < ds2> worse case is shove a MMBT2222A to drive it.
2013-03-01T02:39:57 < dongs> .. or use a gate driver :)
2013-03-01T02:40:09 < dongs> i dont think youre gonna find a 160A 1.8V gate mosfet
2013-03-01T02:40:40 < gxti> psh
2013-03-01T02:46:10 < johntramp> hey,  has anyone here worked on a stm32f2 port of bertos?
2013-03-01T02:56:00 < dongs> nuuh, cuz bertos sucks
2013-03-01T02:59:27 < ds2> I don't want to be doing boards with 160A flowing around
2013-03-01T03:01:29 < dongs> i think china has some trick for those
2013-03-01T03:01:48 < dongs> like using 4-6L stuff and making inner current-carrying traces 4oz or whatever
2013-03-01T03:07:53 < emeb> trying to port my (working) F3 LCD driver code to F4. The SPI port is hanging waiting for TXE. Any clues?
2013-03-01T03:28:37 < johntramp> dongs: what rtos would you recommend? bertos looked okay but i was just judging it on its cover
2013-03-01T03:29:06 < dongs> i use coos and it seems ok. least aidsy-lookin api and stays out of hte way without weird hal/etc shit.
2013-03-01T03:29:34 < dongs> freertos seems ok but its bloated and syntax is aids.
2013-03-01T03:30:00 < johntramp> yeah i have used freertos, and am looking for an alternative
2013-03-01T03:30:07 < johntramp> how about ecos?
2013-03-01T03:30:11 < dongs> well, its payware so
2013-03-01T03:30:12 < dongs> no.
2013-03-01T03:30:26 < johntramp> "eCos is a free open source real-time operating system intended for embedded applications"
2013-03-01T03:31:35 < Erlkoenig> the number of RTOS is too damn high ...
2013-03-01T03:32:25 < qyx_> dongs i dont understand you
2013-03-01T03:32:38 < qyx_> you hate free software and opensores
2013-03-01T03:32:45 < qyx_> you hate commercial software and payware
2013-03-01T03:32:54 < qyx_> so what's suitable?
2013-03-01T03:32:57 < johntramp> lol
2013-03-01T03:32:57 < Erlkoenig> he hates software.
2013-03-01T03:33:20 < dongs> huh ecos is opensores? i msut be thinking some other e-something cos
2013-03-01T03:33:38 < qyx_> ecos is somewhere between
2013-03-01T03:33:48 < qyx_> like redhat for example
2013-03-01T03:34:41 < johntramp> ecos came from redhat
2013-03-01T03:38:53 < Erlkoenig> how do all those µC-RTOS give applications hardware access? Via some C functions? Are there such RTOS that have a POSIX API and provide hardware access via /dev files, like it's done on UNIX in general?
2013-03-01T03:39:09 < johntramp> doesn't look like coos works on any other than stm32f1 series
2013-03-01T03:39:54 < qyx_> Erlkoenig: nuttx
2013-03-01T03:41:06 < Erlkoenig> hmm unfortunately µC Periphals are so diverse providing a unified API is complicated :/
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2013-03-01T03:42:54 < qyx_> but this approach is only suitable if you are going to do some higher level stuff on uC
2013-03-01T03:43:28 < qyx_> if you need strong time determinism, use simpler rtos with simpler and faster api
2013-03-01T03:47:51 < dongs> < Erlkoenig> how do all those µC-RTOS give applications hardware access? Via some C functions? Are there such RTOS that have
2013-03-01T03:47:54 < dongs>                    a POSIX API and provide hardware access via /dev files, like it's done on UNIX in general?
2013-03-01T03:47:57 < dongs> yeah, that nuttx shit zippe is working on
2013-03-01T03:48:03 < dongs> huge bloated crap, as far as im concenred
2013-03-01T03:48:10 < dongs> you want luniux, you  waste time elsewhere, not on ucs
2013-03-01T03:49:05 < Erlkoenig> a huge bunch of C functions sounds like un-elegant and chaotic
2013-03-01T03:49:31 < qyx_> it is ok for more complex projects where application processors and linux is not right choice
2013-03-01T03:50:46 < Erlkoenig> yeah of course for simple projects all that is overkill
2013-03-01T03:51:07 < qyx_> or wince or vxworks or any other os to be unbiased :X
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2013-03-01T05:31:25 < emeb> meh. F4 TIM9 doesn't do encoder mode. :P
2013-03-01T05:31:43 < emeb> just have to do it in software I guess...
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2013-03-01T05:36:10 < dirty_d> zyp, i get what you're saying but you still need to tell your AMC driver how to generate the descriptor
2013-03-01T05:36:40 < dirty_d> and thats more code than just defining the descriptor with a generic descriptor generating system
2013-03-01T05:37:34 < dirty_d> and im more concerned with creating new non standard USB devices where i just decide how many endpoints i need and stuff
2013-03-01T05:37:47 < dirty_d> and just using a libusb application on the host to communicate with it
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2013-03-01T05:48:36 < dongs> lol, libusb
2013-03-01T05:48:38 < dongs> trash.
2013-03-01T05:49:21 < dirty_d> let the hate flow through you
2013-03-01T05:50:17 < dirty_d> dongs, i kinda get the feeling you dont like linux, lol
2013-03-01T05:50:25 < dirty_d> or anything to do with it
2013-03-01T05:50:35 < dongs> no way!?
2013-03-01T05:50:53 < dirty_d> what do you use?
2013-03-01T05:53:20 < dongs> http://www.huaxinjin.com/userfiles/image/SAM_0278.JPG
2013-03-01T05:53:22 < dongs> lol, URITE
2013-03-01T05:54:46 < dirty_d> what the hell is that?
2013-03-01T05:55:14 < dongs> no idea
2013-03-01T05:55:16 < dongs> lcd i think
2013-03-01T05:55:26 < dongs> not sure how they do color
2013-03-01T05:55:30 < dongs> maybe colored backside?
2013-03-01T05:55:35 < dongs> kinda neat
2013-03-01T05:55:35 < dirty_d> i think i saw that on star trek
2013-03-01T05:58:17 < dirty_d> i feel like everything im seeing on there means ARMAGEDDON
2013-03-01T06:04:02 < dirty_d> ARMAGEDDON!
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2013-03-01T06:10:14 < dongs> armaaids
2013-03-01T06:10:43 < dongs> waht hte feuck since when is avril lavigne shit passes as HAPPY HARDCORE
2013-03-01T06:10:50 < dongs> its not even speeded up
2013-03-01T06:10:56 < dongs> fucking changed stataion.
2013-03-01T06:17:22 < emeb> software encoder driver FTW.
2013-03-01T06:17:26 < dongs> enblogger
2013-03-01T06:17:34 < dongs> almost done with USELESS SHIT soon i can dick with mp3 enckkkoder
2013-03-01T06:17:35 < emeb> probably simpler to set up than timer version.
2013-03-01T06:17:50 < emeb> oh fun!
2013-03-01T06:18:15 < dongs> fucking fedex
2013-03-01T06:18:20 < dongs> "due to new regulations we have eto ask ytou to change your password
2013-03-01T06:18:30 < dongs> it should now include at least one capital letter, one number, and be longer htan 8 chars
2013-03-01T06:18:33 < emeb> dafuq?
2013-03-01T06:18:33 < dongs> FUCK YOU
2013-03-01T06:18:36 < dongs> whos gonna steal my fucking fedex acount
2013-03-01T06:18:51 < GargantuaSauce> which means they are storing it plaintext
2013-03-01T06:18:54 < emeb> drug lords - transhipping contraband via fedex
2013-03-01T06:19:06 < dongs> GargantuaSauce: right, lol.
2013-03-01T06:19:31 < emeb> read as: "we've been hacked - change ur pw"
2013-03-01T06:22:08 < dongs> and hten their label printing is STILL broken in chrome
2013-03-01T06:22:46 < dongs> cocks
2013-03-01T06:22:48 < dongs> so i have to load up IE10
2013-03-01T06:22:50 < dongs> just to print fedex
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2013-03-01T06:25:12 < dongs> not that IE10 is bad or anythign
2013-03-01T06:25:19 < dongs> but the bullshit scrolling of comboboxes and shit is fucking retareded
2013-03-01T06:25:28 < dongs>  I disabled all these gay animations in the OS why should I see ht em in the browser
2013-03-01T06:25:42 < dongs> I wonder whose idea it was to do all this "smooth scrolling" crap in slider boxes/etc
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2013-03-01T06:43:29 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/bIzoWkA.png lol
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2013-03-01T07:11:31 < zippe> Dammit. I'm trying to find some literature on subjective LED brightness across colours, and I'm finding nothing
2013-03-01T07:12:39 < dongs> you mean to match shit like green being perceivably double brightness or whatever by our eyes etc?
2013-03-01T07:13:04 < dongs> I think my led lighting pal might have something on this, ill poke himn
2013-03-01T07:16:36 < Gargantuasauce_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Luminosity.png zippe
2013-03-01T07:16:54 < dongs> looks liek a dick
2013-03-01T07:18:23 < dongs> ahha
2013-03-01T07:18:24 < dongs> his reply
2013-03-01T07:18:26 < dongs> "nope, im dubm"
2013-03-01T07:18:28 < dongs> ok never mind
2013-03-01T07:19:19 < Gargantuasauce_> the two curves are for high/low light conditions
2013-03-01T07:19:27 < Gargantuasauce_> ie your rods vs your cones running the show
2013-03-01T07:19:36 < Gargantuasauce_> er the other way around
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2013-03-01T08:32:56 < emeb_mac> dongs - literally: http://www.theawl.com/2013/02/a-natural-history-of-the-penis-a-visit-to-icelands-infamous-penis-museum
2013-03-01T08:33:12 < emeb_mac> ask karlp if he's been there...
2013-03-01T08:33:19 < dongs> old
2013-03-01T08:33:50  * emeb_mac hangs head in shame
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2013-03-01T08:45:01 < zippe> GargantuaSauce: that's human optical sensitivity?
2013-03-01T08:45:23 < zippe> GargantuaSauce: sorry, missed your follow-up comment
2013-03-01T08:46:02 < zippe> GargantuaSauce: thanks. Now I need to map that onto these LEDs
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2013-03-01T08:49:32 < zippe> Ugh, so the wikipedia article seems to claim that the luminous flux number already accounts for that curve
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2013-03-01T08:50:01 < zippe> so, wtf. How can they call a 5mcd green LED "super bright" next to a 250mcd amber LED?
2013-03-01T08:53:09 < Gargantuasauce_> i think we can chalk that one up to bullshit marketing terms
2013-03-01T08:53:35 < zippe> Blegh.
2013-03-01T08:54:04 < zippe> Basically, I have to waste a bunch of current on the green LED if I want it to stand out enough to be useful. That's annoying.
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2013-03-01T08:57:10 < rigid> zippe: it _might_ relate to the relation of brightness/consumed power
2013-03-01T08:57:31 < rigid> so, a very dim LED that consumes ultra low power might still be called "super bright"
2013-03-01T08:57:48 < Gargantuasauce_> i vaguely remember reading that the candela unit as a product specification is basically useless
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2013-03-01T08:58:18 < ds2> emeb_mac: would you have any suggestions as how one can read teh state of charge on a <100pF cap?
2013-03-01T08:58:43 < zippe> GargantuaSauce: datasheet quotes @ 20mA
2013-03-01T08:58:52 < emeb_mac> ds2: fet probe?
2013-03-01T08:58:56 < rigid> Gargantuasauce not entirely useless but only a vague figure in lighting practice. If everyone uses it, it still is usefull to compare brightness.
2013-03-01T08:59:09 < ds2> emeb_mac: wouldn't the gate capacitance immediately discharge it?
2013-03-01T08:59:51 < emeb_mac> ds2: I haven't looked at the specs on fet probes, but they're designed to have very high impedance and low parasitics.
2013-03-01T09:00:21 < rigid> afaik: candela ~= emmited energy, lumen ~= emmited energy adapted to the human visible spectrum, lux ~= amount of energy hitting a surface
2013-03-01T09:00:35 < ds2> emeb_mac: ah I see
2013-03-01T09:02:15 < Gargantuasauce_> you have candela and lumens backwards
2013-03-01T09:02:34 < rigid> oh yeah, i mix them up constantly :9
2013-03-01T09:02:35 < rigid> :)
2013-03-01T09:02:43 < Gargantuasauce_> oh wait, lumens are candelas per solid angle
2013-03-01T09:02:52 < rigid> since wikipedia we don't have to remember stuff in detail ;)
2013-03-01T09:02:55 < Gargantuasauce_> so they are equally handwavey
2013-03-01T09:03:19 < emeb_mac> ds2: here's a page from Tek on their active probes: http://www.tek.com/active-probe
2013-03-01T09:03:28 < rigid> angle ~= surface, so i mixed up lux & lumen i guess
2013-03-01T09:03:29 < emeb_mac> 1Mohm/ 1pf
2013-03-01T09:03:48 < emeb_mac> That would be good for checking out your cap.
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2013-03-01T09:04:59 < zippe> emeb_mac: er, no
2013-03-01T09:05:17 < R2COM> so "I only give negative feedback" shirt arrived today
2013-03-01T09:05:18 < zippe> 1Mohm will discharge a 100pF cap from 5V to 1V in ~22µs
2013-03-01T09:05:26 < dongs> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61c1Fa1SjmL._SL1280_.jpg what hte fuck is going on here
2013-03-01T09:05:32 < R2COM> its material is kinda rough
2013-03-01T09:05:46 < R2COM> I wasnt expecting superb quality anyhow, just bought it cuz of picture, but its ok
2013-03-01T09:05:47 < emeb_mac> zippe: yeah - but if you've got a DSO you can look at the curve and infer the charge.
2013-03-01T09:05:52 < Gargantuasauce_> i dunno about gate capacitance but allegedly the input impedance of a TL08x op amp is like 10^12 ohms
2013-03-01T09:06:21 < zippe> GargantuaSauce: for 100pF, you are going to care a great deal about parasitics
2013-03-01T09:06:40 < ds2> emeb_mac: looking for a circuit for that
2013-03-01T09:06:43 < zippe> I guess the question is, do you want to know what the state of charge *is*, or *was*
2013-03-01T09:07:02 < emeb_mac> can't observe w/o influencing what you observe.
2013-03-01T09:07:18 < ds2> emeb_mac: trying to integrate tiny pulses of current onto a small capacitor but reading it seems difficult
2013-03-01T09:07:43 < zippe> ds2: what's the source?
2013-03-01T09:07:46 < emeb_mac> ds2: ah, so you're not looking for test equipment
2013-03-01T09:07:52 < emeb_mac> you're looking for a circuit.
2013-03-01T09:07:56 < ds2> zippe: a PIN diode
2013-03-01T09:08:09 < ds2> yes... but test equipment is likely where I have to start to look for it
2013-03-01T09:08:12 < zippe> ds2: if it's current, you want an op-amp based integrator
2013-03-01T09:08:19 < zippe> ds2: and possibly an LNA
2013-03-01T09:08:48 < ds2> zippe: have to be cheap/very cheap
2013-03-01T09:08:57 < ds2> would some context help?
2013-03-01T09:09:21 < zippe> ds2: http://www.maximintegrated.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/2236
2013-03-01T09:09:31 < ds2> an op-amp capabile of handling some small signals is likely to be costly :(
2013-03-01T09:10:14 < ds2> whoa...
2013-03-01T09:10:32 < emeb_mac> seems like a mosfet follower would work - very high impedance gate.
2013-03-01T09:10:58 < ds2> but mosfets have huge gate capacitance
2013-03-01T09:11:15 < emeb_mac> depends on the fet topology
2013-03-01T09:11:22 < ds2> that app note is more or less what I am looking for...except I want to read 100's if not thousands of them at once
2013-03-01T09:11:30 < emeb_mac> RF & microwave fets are very low capacitance
2013-03-01T09:11:54 < ds2> really? didn't think that was possible with a MOSFET since it relies on the charge to turn on
2013-03-01T09:12:52 < ds2> do JFETs count? not sure how to evaluate a reverse biased PN junction
2013-03-01T09:13:01 < zippe> ds2: so look for cheap RF LNAs instead of op-amps
2013-03-01T09:13:23 < zippe> You should be able to find something used in the wifi or bluetooth world
2013-03-01T09:13:35 < ds2> Hmmm
2013-03-01T09:13:46 < ds2> thanks... I'll try those areas. never thought of it that way
2013-03-01T09:14:07 < zippe> It sounds like you're building a neutrino detector
2013-03-01T09:14:09 < zippe> or trying to
2013-03-01T09:14:22 < zippe> Or something else cheaper than a huge tank lined with scintillometers
2013-03-01T09:15:00 < zippe> At any rate; good luck.
2013-03-01T09:15:13 < zippe> If you are in the 1k+ range, you should be able to get a better price break
2013-03-01T09:15:19 < ds2> that is not far from it
2013-03-01T09:15:36 < ds2> trying to do some odd ball imaging using stray gamma rays
2013-03-01T09:15:49 < ds2> thinking of an array of PIN diodes
2013-03-01T09:15:52 < zippe> The Maxim parts run $6 or so to build 1k instances
2013-03-01T09:16:11 < R2COM> so I see that Diptrace libraries are kinda closed
2013-03-01T09:16:12 < R2COM> encoded
2013-03-01T09:16:14 < zippe> I guess it depends on your budget… good luck either way 8)
2013-03-01T09:16:18 < emeb_mac> ds2: for example this phemt: http://www.avagotech.com/pages/en/rf_microwave/transistors/fet/vmmk-1218/
2013-03-01T09:16:18 < R2COM> not like you can edit it with Vim
2013-03-01T09:16:22 < R2COM> or text editor
2013-03-01T09:16:29 < ds2> if I can stick in a switch/mux....
2013-03-01T09:16:37 < emeb_mac> gate capacitance (see datasheet model) is very low.
2013-03-01T09:16:44 < R2COM> i.e. the only way to create component/footprint for Diptrace is just using Diptrace program itself by drawing
2013-03-01T09:17:12 < ds2> emeb_mac: whoa... that is a whole new universe to me
2013-03-01T09:17:48 < emeb_mac> like 0.04pf
2013-03-01T09:18:57 < emeb_mac> granted - you might not want to use that part for a simple voltage follower as it's designed for microwave amplification
2013-03-01T09:19:07 < emeb_mac> but that's the kind of stuff that's out there...
2013-03-01T09:20:03 < ds2> I don't even know how to make a PCB w/anywhere near that little stray cap
2013-03-01T09:21:34 < emeb_mac> yep - takes some special materials
2013-03-01T09:21:54 < ds2> is this where stuff like rogers come in?
2013-03-01T09:22:06 < emeb_mac> yeah - that teflon stuff.
2013-03-01T09:22:29 < ds2> guess I'll be learning about PHEMTs tomorrow :)
2013-03-01T09:23:09 < emeb_mac> don't stop there. There are probably other (cheaper, easier to handle) stuff that would also work.
2013-03-01T09:23:45 < ds2> *nod*
2013-03-01T09:24:26 < ds2> 0.04pF is just amazing
2013-03-01T09:24:41 < ds2> totally in awe
2013-03-01T09:25:06 < zippe> don't forget to coat it once you're done with assembly
2013-03-01T09:25:13 < zippe> And pick your conformal carefully
2013-03-01T09:25:20 < zippe> some of them are hygrophilic
2013-03-01T09:25:38 < ds2> what is the coating for?
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2013-03-01T09:25:53 < ds2> isn't it sufficient to stick it in a sealed container?
2013-03-01T09:25:54 < zippe> dielectric
2013-03-01T09:26:03 < ds2> hmmm ok
2013-03-01T09:26:11 < zippe> Are you going to pressurise your container with nitrogen?
2013-03-01T09:26:16 < ds2> nope
2013-03-01T09:26:20 < zippe> do you know what all the various things inside the container outgas?
2013-03-01T09:26:30 < ds2> Ohhhhh that
2013-03-01T09:26:47 < zippe> It's a very interesting world you're looking at
2013-03-01T09:26:55 < zippe> I do hope that a) you succeed and b) you share your stories
2013-03-01T09:27:00 < ds2> I see
2013-03-01T09:27:06 < zippe> I've dabbled a wee bit and many years ago
2013-03-01T09:27:22 < ds2> does this mean no clean flux is also a non option?
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2013-03-01T09:27:37 < zippe> You will want to talk to a CM that actually does this sort of thing for a living
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2013-03-01T09:28:18 < emeb_mac> ds2: check out this jfet: http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/EN1789-D.PDF
2013-03-01T09:28:27 < emeb_mac> input cap = 1.7pf
2013-03-01T09:28:32 < zippe> Someone in the radar biz (where I was) perhaps, or medical imaging, or a really hardcore microwave ham.
2013-03-01T09:28:51 < ds2> whoa... this is getting very specialized.. might be getting in over myhead
2013-03-01T09:29:53 < emeb_mac> that one's a little more standard - sot-23
2013-03-01T09:30:18 < ds2> *nod* but doesn't the jfet gate capacitance vary depending on my bias point?
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2013-03-01T09:31:02 < ds2> heh... sanyo datasheet from onsemi
2013-03-01T09:37:40 < emeb_mac> nytol
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2013-03-01T11:16:04 < rigid> i now see why the ST usb device library+examples got removed... the code is so fubar
2013-03-01T11:16:34 < rigid> usb_init.c: "DEVICE_INFO *pInformation;" -> usb_init.h "extern DEVICE_INFO*	pInformation;" >.<
2013-03-01T11:21:03 < karlp> zyp: your qt app with midi and opengl graphs are really less than 300 lines of python? care to share?
2013-03-01T11:24:05 < rigid> zyp: also you USB library, which device is it written for? did you release it?
2013-03-01T11:24:09 < rigid> *your
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2013-03-01T11:35:25 < jpa-> rigid: huh? that seems fine to me?
2013-03-01T11:36:52 < rigid> jpa-: it's not... usb_init.c is user code, the library should not include user code
2013-03-01T11:37:18 < rigid> rather it should define & initialize the structure and pass it to the user code in some way
2013-03-01T11:37:29 < jpa-> why?
2013-03-01T11:37:39 < jpa-> it's just a structure
2013-03-01T11:37:59 < rigid> jpa-: encapsulation... what other libraries do you know well?
2013-03-01T11:38:05 < rigid> i could form an example then
2013-03-01T11:38:16 < rigid> like FILE for example
2013-03-01T11:38:27 < jpa-> embedded is often a tad different
2013-03-01T11:38:49 < rigid> it would be the same if stdio.h code includes the user's definition of the FILE structure
2013-03-01T11:39:19 < rigid> yeah, ST thought this too... but C is C ... doing it like this is like begging for trouble
2013-03-01T11:39:47 < jpa-> oops i accidentally the FILE.. https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/Baselibc/blob/master/include/stdio.h#L17
2013-03-01T11:39:59 < rigid> and still, their libs are far from lightweight or overhead free ;)
2013-03-01T11:40:46 < rigid> jpa-: yeah, that's how it's done... FILE is opaque to the code including stdio.h
2013-03-01T11:40:52 < jpa-> it's not opaque
2013-03-01T11:41:06 < jpa-> oops my user code also accidentally the file  https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/dso-quad-logic/blob/master/libc_glue.c
2013-03-01T11:41:37 < rigid> oh well, struct File should be in the .c file ... the typedef is nonsense then
2013-03-01T11:41:49 < jpa-> that is just your opinion
2013-03-01T11:41:59 < jpa-> not all structures have to be opaque
2013-03-01T11:42:03 < rigid> hehe... it's a well known principle
2013-03-01T11:42:13 < jpa-> and yet not universally agreed on
2013-03-01T11:42:22 < jpa-> plenty of libraries have non-opaque structures
2013-03-01T11:42:22 < rigid> they have to be transparent if they absolutely have to. that's the principle.
2013-03-01T11:42:45 < jpa-> they should be transparent if they *can* be
2013-03-01T11:42:49 < rigid> jpa-: and which of these libraries let the user declare AND define the structure and then include those? show me
2013-03-01T11:43:19 < jpa-> rigid: you mean a variable with the structure as type?
2013-03-01T11:44:10 < rigid> i never heared of that... with libraries you want any structure to be opaque so stuff doesn't break if the structure changes in later versions... that's why getters/setter methods were invented for classes... or accessors in C
2013-03-01T11:44:17 < jpa-> sure, it is not the most standard way to include the variable using linker, but it doesn't seem too dangerous
2013-03-01T11:44:29 < rigid> jpa-: no, i mean the structure definition itself
2013-03-01T11:44:54 < jpa-> rigid: so    typedef struct { ... } DEVICE_INFO;  is in user code also?
2013-03-01T11:45:01 < jpa-> that does sound a bit weird then
2013-03-01T11:45:06 < rigid> not dangerous? it's fragile as hell
2013-03-01T11:45:42 < jpa-> everything is fragile. if you change public function arguments, it breaks. if you change public structure, it breaks. no difference
2013-03-01T11:45:54 < rigid> to be exact it's done like this: user.c: "FILE *myfile;" stdio.c: "myfile->foo = bar"
2013-03-01T11:46:24 < rigid> instead of doing: stdio.c: "void somefunc(FILE *f) { f->foo = bar; }"
2013-03-01T11:46:34 < jpa-> rigid: and how would you accomplish what libc_glue.c does there, without putting everything in ram
2013-03-01T11:46:52 < rigid> how can that be right? only if hell freezes and sulfur becomes liquid
2013-03-01T11:47:08 < rigid> what exactly? stdout_write()?
2013-03-01T11:47:47 < jpa-> declaring the stdout functions
2013-03-01T11:47:55 < jpa-> and giving stdio access to them
2013-03-01T11:48:34 < jpa-> (avrlibc does this similarly, only that they export a function pointer IIRC)
2013-03-01T11:48:45 < rigid> so so that stdout::write()  actually uses stdout_write() ?
2013-03-01T11:48:56 < jpa-> rigid: this isn't c++, there is no ::
2013-03-01T11:49:11 < jpa-> so that write(stdout, ...) uses stdout_write
2013-03-01T11:49:18 < rigid> how is your notation of library::function() ?
2013-03-01T11:49:24 < rigid> i know that this is not C++ btw.
2013-03-01T11:49:59 < rigid> i'd use library prelinking... there is no other clean way
2013-03-01T11:50:24 < jpa-> what does library prelinking mean in this context? usually it applies only to dynamic libraries
2013-03-01T11:50:45 < rigid> write your own stdout library that exports write() which contains your stdout_write() all other functions are passed through to the original stdout lib
2013-03-01T11:50:53 < rigid> you could also call it library wrapping
2013-03-01T11:51:13 < rigid> that's the *nix standard way at least... there might be others
2013-03-01T11:51:35 < jpa-> what if you want to have several separate files, say stdin, stdout and stderr? three wrappers to write(), everything passing on to each other?
2013-03-01T11:51:41 < rigid> jpa-: besides, libc_glue.c doesn't look as bad as the ST usb library _by far_
2013-03-01T11:51:53 < jpa-> rigid: i know that ST code is bad
2013-03-01T11:52:04 < jpa-> but your example of *why* it is bad is just wrong
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2013-03-01T11:52:18 < jpa-> because that's just about the only thing that isn't wrong about ST's code :D
2013-03-01T11:52:38 < rigid> three wrappers to write() how that? i don't get the problem
2013-03-01T11:52:54 < jpa-> rigid: because there is really no need to write wrappers
2013-03-01T11:53:06 < jpa-> wrappers are a waste of code and stack space in this case
2013-03-01T11:53:22 < jpa-> just because you have some arbitrary notion of it being cleaner
2013-03-01T11:53:39 < rigid> huh? it's just a prelink? how could that waste stack space?
2013-03-01T11:53:43 < jpa-> when in my opinion, exporting variables between files is just as clean when done carefully
2013-03-01T11:54:10 < jpa-> rigid: what the heck is prelink for static libraries? can you give a tutorial because i really don't know
2013-03-01T11:54:12 < rigid> yeah when done carefully... *sigh*
2013-03-01T11:54:24 < jpa-> const variables *is* carefully
2013-03-01T11:54:40 < jpa-> (hmm.. st's stuff isn't const.. i wonder why)
2013-03-01T11:54:54 < rigid> jpa-: it depends on what object format you use... you can read the ld documentation for example
2013-03-01T11:55:03 < jpa-> rigid: i use elf, arm-none-eabi-gcc
2013-03-01T11:55:18 < rigid> then the elf specification is your friend
2013-03-01T11:55:21 < jpa-> search for "prelink" in ld man page yields no hits
2013-03-01T11:55:42 < jpa-> google for "elf prelink" gives stuff only about dynamic libraries
2013-03-01T11:56:46 < jpa-> in my opinion   a) prelink is not what you mean, maybe you mean LD_PRELOAD  b) neither of these makes any sense for static libraries
2013-03-01T11:58:08 < rigid> prelink(8) is for dynamic libraries, shadowing functions in static libraries is the same process... at leas afair
2013-03-01T11:58:23 < jpa-> rigid: so you have never done it?
2013-03-01T11:58:29 < rigid> i've done this only once for AVR ... could be that I remember wrongly
2013-03-01T11:58:55 < jpa-> do you have the code somewhere?
2013-03-01T12:00:53 < jpa-> prelink(8) adjusts the virtual memory addresses of shared libraries and precomputes the relocations.. sure, the linker does the same when linking a static binary, but prelink(8) does not offer anything to modify the function of the code
2013-03-01T12:01:08 < jpa-> prelink(8) just speeds up the loading of shared libraries
2013-03-01T12:01:26 < rigid> jpa-: check the --wrap argument for gcc, that's how it seems to be done nowadays
2013-03-01T12:01:45 < rigid> oh sorry, it's -wrap not --wrap
2013-03-01T12:02:36 < jpa-> so you are suggesting GCC-specific option as the right way opposed to standard C compiler functionality?
2013-03-01T12:02:52 < rigid> and if libc_glue.c still compiles well in 20 years, i'll dance on the north pole in a red swimsuit
2013-03-01T12:03:08 < rigid> jpa-: C simply doesn't support overshadowing, you have to use system specific methods
2013-03-01T12:03:13 < rigid> anything else is just hacks
2013-03-01T12:03:42 < jpa-> but you don't need to use any hacks or overshadowing if you just export a constant like i do
2013-03-01T12:04:05 < jpa-> rigid: can you provide information on how i can contact you in 20 years?
2013-03-01T12:04:55 < rigid> a constant accessed by libc?
2013-03-01T12:05:02 < jpa-> yes
2013-03-01T12:05:15 < jpa-> a constant defined in user code, accessed by libc
2013-03-01T12:05:20 < rigid> of course not, but you won't have to... libc probably changes before that very likely
2013-03-01T12:05:29 < jpa-> it's my own libc
2013-03-01T12:05:59 < jpa-> and the FILE stuff is now part of the public API for my libc, so i won't change it lightly
2013-03-01T12:06:44 < rigid> ahh... so you are suggesting rewriting the library opposed to using the GCC (or $yourcompiler/$yourlinker) function exactly implemented for that case?
2013-03-01T12:06:56 < jpa-> no
2013-03-01T12:07:08 < jpa-> i made my own libc because newlib was bloat
2013-03-01T12:07:20 < rigid> but you did that... your code will break with any other libc implementation as far as I understand
2013-03-01T12:07:20 < jpa-> i made it work like that because it was the best way for it to work
2013-03-01T12:07:30 < rigid> jpa-: tried dietlibc?
2013-03-01T12:07:39 < jpa-> i'm not running linux on my stm32
2013-03-01T12:07:42 < rigid> or libowfat
2013-03-01T12:07:54 < rigid> clean code cross compiles nicely
2013-03-01T12:08:02 < rigid> both compile well for arm
2013-03-01T12:08:43 < jpa-> they don't work without the linux syscalls
2013-03-01T12:08:44 < rigid> oh, owfat is not libc actually
2013-03-01T12:09:10 < rigid> that's why we were talking about overshadowing or did I miss something?
2013-03-01T12:09:34 < rigid> you don't have to rewrite the whole thing if you just need to overshadow some functions... surely you can, but...
2013-03-01T12:09:43 < jpa-> yes, it doesn't work at all without linux syscalls
2013-03-01T12:09:51 < jpa-> try to compile it for stm32
2013-03-01T12:09:53 < jpa-> i'll wait.
2013-03-01T12:10:12 < rigid> that's why you overshadow the functions that call the syscalls
2013-03-01T12:10:12 < jpa-> (and i didn't rewrite libc, i just collected useful portable pieces together)
2013-03-01T12:10:30 < jpa-> rigid: all of them? have fun
2013-03-01T12:10:46 < jpa-> and then when they add one more syscall somewhere you need to overshadow more
2013-03-01T12:10:48 < jpa-> so it breaks
2013-03-01T12:11:01 < jpa-> but i have to work, this discussion is over, you were wrong.
2013-03-01T12:12:33 < rigid> yeah, accessing variables defined by the user in library code is good practice and I am wrong. period.
2013-03-01T12:22:18 < karlp> rigid, you seem very rigid.
2013-03-01T12:22:28 < rigid> jpa-: btw. the check <= 0 of unsigned read_pos in DSOSignalStream::read_backwards() could be a bug
2013-03-01T12:22:35 < rigid> maybe use ssize_t instead :-P
2013-03-01T12:22:44 < karlp> oh emeb's already in bed, can't tell him stories about the penis museum
2013-03-01T12:22:54 < rigid> karlp: ;)
2013-03-01T12:28:59 < jpa-> rigid: true, though it shouldn't go negative anyway.. just a bit confusing comparison there
2013-03-01T12:29:53 < jpa-> but that crap will go away anyway as soon as i finish the fpga compression block
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2013-03-01T12:37:27 < Laurenceb_> sup
2013-03-01T12:38:07 < jpa-> penis museum of iceland
2013-03-01T12:39:57 < Laurenceb_> rigghhtt
2013-03-01T12:41:51 < jpa-> karlp would like to tell stories about it but emeb is already seeing dreams about it
2013-03-01T12:46:59 < Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Phallological_Museum
2013-03-01T12:47:00 < Laurenceb_> omfg
2013-03-01T12:50:10 < karlp> what? who doesn't luv teh cock?
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2013-03-01T12:54:59 < Laurenceb_> http://www.meh.ro/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/meh.ro5524.jpg
2013-03-01T12:55:01 < Laurenceb_> i lolled
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2013-03-01T13:10:56 < dongs> waht
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2013-03-01T13:48:37 < zyp> karlp, sure
2013-03-01T13:49:01 < zyp> it's a mess of course, but it's just 260 lines or so :p
2013-03-01T13:49:53 < zyp> http://paste.jvnv.net/view/8QIc0
2013-03-01T13:52:28 < zyp> rigid, my usb stuff supports both the simple controller used in F1/F3/L1 and the OTG controller used in F107/F2/F4
2013-03-01T13:53:01 < zyp> it's not very mature, it mostly works, code is here: http://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usb
2013-03-01T13:53:57 < zyp> I also have some experimental code with a barely working lowlevel driver for the controller used in the stellaris series
2013-03-01T13:54:23 < zyp> the idea is to keep it portable so it can be used with all sorts of device controllers, just replacing the lowlevel part
2013-03-01T13:55:55 < rigid> zyp: ah, it's C++
2013-03-01T13:56:12 < zyp> yes
2013-03-01T13:56:18 < rigid> I certainly can learn a thing or two from it
2013-03-01T13:57:00 < zyp> parts of it is inspired by the libopencm3 usb stack, which is C and probably more mature, so that might be more interesting to you
2013-03-01T14:04:21 < zyp> dongs, ebay seller answered «oh, by now it's probably lost, do you want a refund?»
2013-03-01T14:04:58 < zyp> «nah, just ship me another instead»
2013-03-01T14:05:33 < zyp> that probably means that it's going to show up today or tomorrow or something :p
2013-03-01T14:07:00 < donigs> right
2013-03-01T14:07:43 < zyp> that's how it's usually been when I've complained about stuff not showing up
2013-03-01T14:07:47 < donigs> yeah
2013-03-01T14:08:42 < zyp> like the cheap radio controllers I used before I got the turnigy 9x, suddenly I had two of those
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2013-03-01T14:10:32 < donigs> fuck feenode
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2013-03-01T14:11:28 < zyp> it's a bit fun how you are the only one with problems :p
2013-03-01T14:12:22 < donigs> wrong
2013-03-01T14:12:30 < donigs> man fucking RAGE
2013-03-01T14:12:34 < donigs> digikey shit broken
2013-03-01T14:12:46 < donigs> search for anythign = read error shit from LUNIX
2013-03-01T14:13:17 < zyp> sounds about as fun as IIS error pages
2013-03-01T14:13:47 < zyp> digikey search works fine here
2013-03-01T14:13:59 < donigs> ya its fixed
2013-03-01T14:14:38 < donigs> i need to file rma for usb parts too.
2013-03-01T14:14:42 < donigs> will do that later.
2013-03-01T14:14:49 < donigs> trying to remember waht hte fuck else I need to order
2013-03-01T14:29:18 < Laurenceb> <dongs> waht
2013-03-01T14:29:44 < Laurenceb> its stereotypical basement dwelling pron review kid
2013-03-01T14:34:49 < dongs> what
2013-03-01T14:35:34 < dongs> k digieky ordered time to SLEEP
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2013-03-01T15:09:22 < karlp> zyp: nice, I guess 300 lines is more than I was thinking,
2013-03-01T15:10:29 < Laurenceb> interesting - i hadnt noticed that F4 was rated from -40C to +105C before
2013-03-01T15:10:31 < karlp> your qt thing is also just the one graph widget, I thought I was remembering a more complicated one with buttons and sliders and stuff.
2013-03-01T15:10:37 < Laurenceb> thats pretty extended range
2013-03-01T15:10:37 < karlp> Laurenceb: not all of them,
2013-03-01T15:10:47 < karlp> you can get them in two ranges
2013-03-01T15:10:51 < Laurenceb> ah
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2013-03-01T15:16:18 < Laurenceb> arg so much fail
2013-03-01T15:16:38 < Laurenceb> some perman00b flooded a ton of hirose connectors with solder
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2013-03-01T15:27:11 < zyp> karlp, that one is smaller, it just loads an .ui file for the layout and hook up some signals
2013-03-01T15:28:32 < Laurenceb> think i need a fail snorkel to breath in this sea of fail...
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2013-03-01T15:39:43 < Laurenceb> lol and he swapped n channel fets for p channel
2013-03-01T15:39:50 < Laurenceb> everyone knows they are the same right
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2013-03-01T16:02:13 < Laurenceb> fixed :P
2013-03-01T16:02:38 < Laurenceb> think ill just assemble pcb's myself in future...
2013-03-01T16:08:38 < Laurenceb> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oM2ySz9xZ-M/TX4ewJjK9jI/AAAAAAAAE8g/V6Htf45x8s0/s1600/110331%2Box%2Bdriver.jpg
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2013-03-01T16:46:15 < Laurenceb> http://blog.openbeamusa.com/2012/05/18/behind-the-scenes-injection-molding/
2013-03-01T16:46:19 < Laurenceb> impressive stuff
2013-03-01T16:46:32 < Laurenceb> rather more high tech than any of my molds
2013-03-01T16:48:26  * Laurenceb uses two component resin casing with  304 stainless molds
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2013-03-01T17:18:59 <+Steffanx> Fuck ReCaptcha
2013-03-01T17:19:05 <+Steffanx> </randomrant>
2013-03-01T17:19:07 < gxti> no
2013-03-01T17:19:13 < gxti> i refuse to fuck it.
2013-03-01T17:19:24 <+Steffanx> Pee over it then
2013-03-01T17:19:28 < gxti> maybe later.
2013-03-01T17:19:40 <+Steffanx> That's what you seem to like
2013-03-01T17:19:47 <+Steffanx> The yankee way
2013-03-01T17:22:32 <+Steffanx> Hows it today in yankeeland gxti ?
2013-03-01T17:27:54 -!- barthess [~barthess@86.57.155.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2013-03-01T17:29:21 < gxti> workin on works
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2013-03-01T17:31:46 < Erlkoenig> do americans consider "yankee" as an insult?
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2013-03-01T17:32:19 < gxti> well in the US 'yankee' means either the baseball team or the northeast generally
2013-03-01T17:32:23 < gxti> so it dependson where they live :p
2013-03-01T17:33:36 <+Steffanx> gxti.. you remember what you said yesterday?
2013-03-01T17:33:52 <+Steffanx> about the internet and redefining words?
2013-03-01T17:34:05 < gxti> i don't remember 5 minutes ago
2013-03-01T17:34:07 < Erlkoenig> oh, i had the impression that "yankee" generally means "american"
2013-03-01T17:34:22 <+Steffanx> when I say it, it does e
2013-03-01T17:34:24 <+Steffanx> Erlkoenig,
2013-03-01T17:36:47 <+Steffanx> Hows it today in yankeeland gxti ?
2013-03-01T17:39:08 < gxti> it's not redefined, it's just a location-sensitive definition
2013-03-01T17:39:13  * gxti nods
2013-03-01T17:39:43 <+Steffanx> That was more than 5 minutes ago
2013-03-01T17:39:55 < gxti> it's on my screen right now though
2013-03-01T17:40:11 < gxti> but once it scrolls off it's gone
2013-03-01T17:40:26 <+Steffanx> zlog knows
2013-03-01T17:40:26 < zlog> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-01.html
2013-03-01T17:42:02 < Laurenceb> new ubuntu background ->  http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/_9e_DljAp4c/mqdefault.jpg
2013-03-01T17:43:14 < gxti> i don't get it
2013-03-01T17:43:26 <+Steffanx> only useful when you like pixels or have a 320x180px screen
2013-03-01T17:43:44 <+Steffanx> *large pixels-ish images
2013-03-01T17:43:53 < Laurenceb> its devvo
2013-03-01T17:44:16 < gxti> some internet celebrity?
2013-03-01T17:44:25 <+Steffanx> Whoever devvo may be
2013-03-01T17:44:31 < Laurenceb> http://www.bebo.com/c/profile?MemberId=2095379730&ShowSims=Y
2013-03-01T17:44:40 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: ReggieUK, johntramp, CoolBear, Rious
2013-03-01T17:44:40 < gxti> pass
2013-03-01T17:45:06 <+Steffanx> whatever
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2013-03-01T17:45:44 < Laurenceb> spoof rapper
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2013-03-01T17:48:08 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb is on drugs again?
2013-03-01T17:48:20 < Laurenceb> again?!
2013-03-01T17:48:23 < Erlkoenig> he's on black tea
2013-03-01T17:48:25 < Laurenceb> im always on drugs
2013-03-01T17:49:18 < Laurenceb> http://exposingevilempire.com/accenture/accenture-analyst-dead-at-desk-for-4-days/
2013-03-01T17:49:20 < Laurenceb> i lolled
2013-03-01T17:50:35 < Laurenceb> http://chris-stubbs.co.uk/hab/theheliumcaughtfire.jpg
2013-03-01T17:51:55 < gxti> i need an ignore rule to keep any of Laurenceb's URLs from showing up
2013-03-01T17:52:09 <+Steffanx> You paste that story about that analyst everwhere Laurenceb ?
2013-03-01T17:52:29 < Laurenceb> its too funny to miss
2013-03-01T17:52:34 < gxti> no.
2013-03-01T17:52:39 < gxti> it is fake and boring.
2013-03-01T17:52:51 <+Steffanx> Can't agree more
2013-03-01T17:52:54 < Laurenceb> fake and funny
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2013-03-01T20:38:56 < Laurenceb> how do i find last called interrupt from info reg?
2013-03-01T20:39:09 < Erlkoenig> IPSR
2013-03-01T20:39:34 < zyp> not «last called», it's «active handler»
2013-03-01T20:39:40 < Laurenceb> i see
2013-03-01T20:39:52 < zyp> will be 0 for thread mode
2013-03-01T20:40:29 < zyp> http://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/interrupt/interrupt.cpp <- I'm extracting it here to use it for some trickery :p
2013-03-01T20:40:30 < Laurenceb> xpsr           0x21000003	
2013-03-01T20:40:32 < Laurenceb> that?
2013-03-01T20:40:44 < zyp> 3 is hardfault
2013-03-01T20:41:01 < Laurenceb> hmf
2013-03-01T20:41:28 < Laurenceb> this occurs when i more some code the ccm
2013-03-01T20:41:34 < Laurenceb> s/the/to
2013-03-01T20:41:39 < Erlkoenig> templates and interrupts... congratz to marrying high-level-language features with low-level-hardware access
2013-03-01T20:41:46 < zyp> :D
2013-03-01T20:42:02 < zyp> it's nice really
2013-03-01T20:42:20 < jpa-> it's really nice, really
2013-03-01T20:42:29 < Erlkoenig> C++11 is killing my brain
2013-03-01T20:42:41 < zyp> this is not C++11
2013-03-01T20:42:45 < Laurenceb> is there any way to backtrace in gdb?
2013-03-01T20:42:49 < zyp> bt
2013-03-01T20:42:56 < Laurenceb> if i have hardfault
2013-03-01T20:43:09 < Laurenceb> #1  0xffffffec in ?? ()
2013-03-01T20:43:11 < Erlkoenig> zyp: i know, i am reading something about 11 atm
2013-03-01T20:43:23 < jpa-> Laurenceb: http://koti.kapsi.fi/jpa/stuff/other/stm32-hardfault-backtrace.html
2013-03-01T20:43:40 < jpa-> Laurenceb: you may be able to extract the PSP from $psp also
2013-03-01T20:43:57 < Erlkoenig> Laurenceb: Page 648 in the ARMv7 Architecture Reference
2013-03-01T20:44:14 < Laurenceb> ok, thanks
2013-03-01T20:44:25 < Erlkoenig> sp+6 contains the return address, which is the point in the code where the exception occured
2013-03-01T20:44:51 < Laurenceb> psp            0x2000ee30	0x2000ee30
2013-03-01T20:44:53 < zyp> jpa-, «Unfortunately I did not find a way to do this directly from gdb …» what about «set $sp = $psp»?
2013-03-01T20:45:09 < jpa-> zyp: yes yes, i found the way later when you told me that
2013-03-01T20:45:14 < jpa-> haven't updated that document
2013-03-01T20:45:17 < Laurenceb> so it made the jump to ccm?
2013-03-01T20:45:21 < Erlkoenig> starting from sp+8 is the stack before the exception, which is in effect the backtrace
2013-03-01T20:45:23 < Laurenceb> then something bad occured?
2013-03-01T20:45:31 < jpa-> Laurenceb: uh?
2013-03-01T20:45:40 < Laurenceb>  0x2000ee30 is ccm ?
2013-03-01T20:45:45 < jpa-> Laurenceb: 1) that is not CCM 2) it is just stack pointer
2013-03-01T20:45:46 < zyp> no
2013-03-01T20:45:50 < Laurenceb> doh
2013-03-01T20:45:55 < Laurenceb> yeah thats ram
2013-03-01T20:46:03 < zyp> Laurenceb, do «set $sp = $psp», then try bt again
2013-03-01T20:46:08 < jpa-> Laurenceb: try something like    set $sp = $psp .. yeah
2013-03-01T20:46:11 < Laurenceb> k
2013-03-01T20:46:14 < Laurenceb> sec
2013-03-01T20:46:15 < Erlkoenig> jpa-: wow, what an evil hack
2013-03-01T20:46:38 < jpa-> Erlkoenig: why does everyone call my code evil hacks today?
2013-03-01T20:46:45 < Erlkoenig> because it is :D
2013-03-01T20:46:59 < Erlkoenig> modifying the Stack Pointer from within the CODE so the DEBUGGER knows what to do :D
2013-03-01T20:47:12 < Erlkoenig> the "clean" way would probably be to modify gdb itself...
2013-03-01T20:47:16 < Laurenceb>  set $sp = $psp
2013-03-01T20:47:16 < Laurenceb> (gdb) bt
2013-03-01T20:47:16 < Laurenceb> #0  _unhandled_exception ()
2013-03-01T20:47:16 < Laurenceb>     at ChibiOS/os/ports/GCC/ARMCMx/STM32F4xx/vectors.c:208
2013-03-01T20:47:16 < Laurenceb> #1  0xffffffec in ?? ()
2013-03-01T20:47:20 < zyp> Erlkoenig, yes
2013-03-01T20:47:25 < Erlkoenig> but probably complicated.
2013-03-01T20:47:26 < Laurenceb> no change
2013-03-01T20:47:40 < gxti> jpa-: because you are an evil hacker
2013-03-01T20:47:55 < jpa-> Laurenceb: huh, why is your gdb braindead?
2013-03-01T20:48:02 < Laurenceb> stlink
2013-03-01T20:48:04 < zyp> Erlkoenig, the real solution is looking at $lr, and when it contains EXC_RETURN, switching stacks and continuing tracing
2013-03-01T20:48:11 < jpa-> Laurenceb: i use stlink also
2013-03-01T20:48:15 < Laurenceb> wtf
2013-03-01T20:48:25 < Erlkoenig> zyp: yes, from within GDB
2013-03-01T20:48:42 < zyp> Erlkoenig, I mean, the real solution would be gdb doing this automatically
2013-03-01T20:48:45 < jpa-> Laurenceb: try   x /16wx $psp    and put it in pastebin
2013-03-01T20:48:54 < zyp> $psp is not always right
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2013-03-01T20:49:16 < zyp> (it's never right in my code, I always use $msp)
2013-03-01T20:49:21 < jpa-> Laurenceb: are you running chibios?
2013-03-01T20:49:26 < Laurenceb> yes
2013-03-01T20:49:32 < jpa-> ok, then it most probably is $psp
2013-03-01T20:49:46 < Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/NAZqYaK2
2013-03-01T20:49:52 < jpa-> zyp: i think gdb backtrace might actually do that nowadays.. i wrote that page back in 2011
2013-03-01T20:49:57 < Erlkoenig> one could even have GDB print out IPSR automatically, resolve type of exception, print backtrace from within and without the exception, examine CFSR... would be nice ;-)
2013-03-01T20:50:11 < zyp> somebody wrote a python script to do that
2013-03-01T20:50:12 < Laurenceb> i think it relates to ccm
2013-03-01T20:50:20 < Laurenceb> as with no ccm used the code runs
2013-03-01T20:50:22 < Erlkoenig> jpa-: not 2 months ago, when i tried last time :D
2013-03-01T20:50:44 < zyp> Laurenceb, you probably need to look up CFSR anyway, so do that.
2013-03-01T20:50:54 < zyp> to check what kind of fault it is
2013-03-01T20:50:58 < jpa-> Laurenceb: yeah.. you can extract the register values and PC and LR of exception location from there
2013-03-01T20:50:58 < Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/z38EDVmG
2013-03-01T20:51:16 < Laurenceb> how do i  look up CFSR?
2013-03-01T20:51:24 < jpa-> Erlkoenig: maybe you just had braindead gdb, like Laurenceb :)
2013-03-01T20:51:32 -!- trepidaciousMBR [~trepidaci@217.155.204.2] has quit [Client Quit]
2013-03-01T20:51:44 < Erlkoenig> jpa-: hum, gdb from gnu-arm-embedded
2013-03-01T20:51:45 < jpa-> hmm msp = psp there, i wonder what that means?
2013-03-01T20:52:05 < Erlkoenig> Laurenceb: Open "ARMv7 Architecture Reference.pdf", Ctrl+F, "CFSR", Return
2013-03-01T20:52:10 < zyp> jpa-, it means that Laurenceb did $sp = $psp
2013-03-01T20:52:18 < jpa-> zyp: ah, treu
2013-03-01T20:52:20 < jpa-> *true
2013-03-01T20:52:28 < Laurenceb> ok
2013-03-01T20:52:36 < Laurenceb> where does ccm start?
2013-03-01T20:52:39 < Laurenceb> address?
2013-03-01T20:52:43 < Laurenceb> on F4
2013-03-01T20:52:43 < jpa-> 0x1000...
2013-03-01T20:52:44 -!- trepidaciousMBR [~trepidaci@217.155.204.2] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-01T20:52:44 < zyp> 0x10000000
2013-03-01T20:52:46 < Laurenceb> k
2013-03-01T20:52:49 < jpa-> i won
2013-03-01T20:53:09 < Laurenceb> hmm the init code worked
2013-03-01T20:53:19 < Laurenceb> ccm is loaded in late_init
2013-03-01T20:53:20 < Laurenceb> wtf
2013-03-01T20:53:33 -!- trepidaciousMBR [~trepidaci@217.155.204.2] has quit [Client Quit]
2013-03-01T20:53:40 < Laurenceb> oh well ive gtg, fix this next week
2013-03-01T20:53:42 < Laurenceb> cya all
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2013-03-01T20:54:47  * jpa- wrote code today that uses placement new to initialize static C++ object during boot before C++ static initializers run
2013-03-01T20:54:56  * jpa- thinks he may not recognize evil hacks anymore
2013-03-01T20:54:58 < Laurenceb> maybe the jump isnt setting thumb mode or something... ill check over the dis asm
2013-03-01T20:55:01 < Laurenceb> bbl
2013-03-01T20:55:10 < zyp> jpa-, wtf :p
2013-03-01T20:57:04 < jpa-> needed to get boot logo visible as soon as device turns on.. but the bitmap decompression code is c++
2013-03-01T20:57:37 < emeb> complex solutions for simple problems.
2013-03-01T20:57:45 < jpa-> it wasn't complex in code
2013-03-01T20:57:58 < jpa-> it is complex only when rigid tries to think about it
2013-03-01T20:58:04 < jpa-> s/when/if/
2013-03-01T20:59:49 < jpa-> but this is production code so it's not so critical about quality as hobby code
2013-03-01T21:00:05 < emeb> lol
2013-03-01T21:00:42 < jpa-> (strange but true :)
2013-03-01T21:01:12 < gxti> just fix it later, where later means never
2013-03-01T21:05:12 < emeb> hobbyists have time to get it "just so"
2013-03-01T21:05:25 < emeb> whereas production needs to turn the crank.
2013-03-01T21:16:11 < trepidaciousMBR> I dread seeing "c++" in a project description - to me that just means "keep looking" ;)
2013-03-01T21:16:59 < jpa-> nowadays i'm beginning to think that i should use more C++ and less C
2013-03-01T21:17:48 <+Steffanx> How do you begin to think?
2013-03-01T21:17:56 <+Steffanx> I mean, how you know where it started?
2013-03-01T21:18:14 < jpa-> well i know i'm not usually thinking
2013-03-01T21:18:34 <+Steffanx> you think you don't think
2013-03-01T21:18:53 < jpa-> by the intermediate value theorem i know there must have been a point where i began to think
2013-03-01T21:19:58 <+Steffanx> but you are beginning to think, so you are not there yet
2013-03-01T21:20:26 < jpa-> oh well. it's just optimism
2013-03-01T21:20:34 < jpa-> i hope that one day i will think
2013-03-01T21:20:51 <+Steffanx> I'll buy you a beer when you figured out
2013-03-01T21:21:06 < jpa-> i'll buy you some cannabis then
2013-03-01T21:21:15 <+Steffanx> I can do that myself
2013-03-01T21:21:17 < gxti> so you can not think together
2013-03-01T21:21:44 <+Steffanx> man why people think dutchies are cannabis addicts?
2013-03-01T21:21:58 <+Steffanx> That's the part of the country 250km away from me
2013-03-01T21:22:01 < Erlkoenig> because all germans drink litres of beer per day \o/
2013-03-01T21:22:02 < gxti> because everybody needs a stereotype
2013-03-01T21:22:04 -!- tavish [~tavish@unaffiliated/tavish] has quit [Quit: leaving]
2013-03-01T21:22:05 < jpa-> why do people think finnies like beer?
2013-03-01T21:22:25 <+Steffanx> I never said that
2013-03-01T21:22:28 < gxti> Steffanx: is that holland or not-holland?
2013-03-01T21:22:28 <+Steffanx> They are vodka addicts
2013-03-01T21:22:50 < gxti> i know more than nothing but less than anything significant about dutch geography
2013-03-01T21:22:51 <+Steffanx> not-(south or north holland)
2013-03-01T21:25:42 <+Steffanx> You probably know as much as i know about yankeeland gxti
2013-03-01T21:25:50 <+Steffanx> Nah, probably not true
2013-03-01T21:26:48 < Erlkoenig> i was in the netherlands often on vacation :)
2013-03-01T21:27:24 <+Steffanx> And you never said hi to me :S
2013-03-01T21:27:35 < Erlkoenig> a pity
2013-03-01T21:28:07 < Erlkoenig> the Oosterscheldekering is so amazing...
2013-03-01T21:28:10 <+Steffanx> You probably only went to amsterdam and the other crappy cities in NL
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2013-03-01T21:28:44 < Erlkoenig> mainly we where just haning around on the beach :D
2013-03-01T21:29:24 <+Steffanx> The ugly dutch beach.. hmpf
2013-03-01T21:29:47 <+Steffanx> There are better countries to "just hang around the beach"
2013-03-01T21:30:17 < gxti> Steffanx: don't feed bad, US has its own weed states now too
2013-03-01T21:30:32 < gxti> so we can both make fun of them or something
2013-03-01T21:30:38 < Erlkoenig> possible, but the netherlands' beaches are the nearest
2013-03-01T21:31:08 <+Steffanx> Where in germany are you?
2013-03-01T21:35:15 < Erlkoenig> originally from near Duisburg, now Bonn
2013-03-01T21:35:59 < BJFreeman> US Attorney General is still trying to figure out if Wash and Colo will be sued or ignored
2013-03-01T21:36:35 < BJFreeman> over pot
2013-03-01T21:44:57 <+Steffanx> :)
2013-03-01T21:46:47 -!- grummund [~user@unaffiliated/grummund] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2013-03-01T22:24:14 < Tectu> does someone here currently use the stm32f4 discovery board successfully with openocd?
2013-03-01T22:24:30 < GargantuaSauce> yep
2013-03-01T22:25:12 < Tectu> GargantuaSauce, do you use the git version of openocd?
2013-03-01T22:25:18 < Tectu> that's the line you call it with?
2013-03-01T22:25:39 < GargantuaSauce> yes i installed the AUR package openocd-git-libftdi
2013-03-01T22:25:53 < GargantuaSauce> sudo openocd -f /usr/share/openocd/scripts/board/stm32f4discovery.cfg
2013-03-01T22:25:58 < Tectu> arch guy  o/
2013-03-01T22:26:18 < GargantuaSauce> :)
2013-03-01T22:26:18 <+Steffanx> sudo ... yay :P
2013-03-01T22:26:42 < GargantuaSauce> because i never got around to making a udev rule
2013-03-01T22:26:52 < Tectu> I know that feeling
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2013-03-01T22:27:29 < dirty_d> jesus christ, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jvLalY6ubc&feature=youtube_gdata
2013-03-01T22:27:35 < dirty_d> freaking scary ass robots
2013-03-01T22:27:47 < GargantuaSauce> yeah that thing is pretty terrifying
2013-03-01T22:27:57 < ds2> the stm32f1 die is pretty amazing
2013-03-01T22:29:19 < Tectu> GargantuaSauce, thanks, got it working
2013-03-01T22:29:23 < GargantuaSauce> cool
2013-03-01T22:29:39 <+Steffanx> ds2 never tried the f3/f4? :P
2013-03-01T22:29:49 < ds2> Steffanx: you got pictures?
2013-03-01T22:30:07 <+Steffanx> uh?
2013-03-01T22:30:31 < Tectu> dirty_d, holy
2013-03-01T22:30:45 <+Steffanx> oh, nevermind ds2. ignore me :)
2013-03-01T22:30:56 < ds2> http://zeptobars.ru/en/read/open-microchip-asic-what-inside-II-msp430-pic-z80
2013-03-01T22:31:03 < ds2> the guy has a decapped F1 die
2013-03-01T22:31:57 <+Steffanx> hmm, it's in english noew :)
2013-03-01T22:32:18 < dirty_d> rofl, look at 0:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNZPRsrwumQ
2013-03-01T22:32:23 <+Steffanx> perhaps it was in english before too, but thorn linked the russian version
2013-03-01T22:33:13 <+Steffanx> dirty_d this one is so much nicer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXJZVZFRFJc
2013-03-01T22:33:33 <+Steffanx> See ~35
2013-03-01T22:33:38 <+Steffanx> *0:35
2013-03-01T22:33:55 <+Steffanx> more like 0:25 actually
2013-03-01T22:34:18 < dirty_d> hahaha
2013-03-01T22:36:27 < GargantuaSauce> lol i got a video ad on that one starting with a dog licking a girl's face
2013-03-01T22:37:04 <+Steffanx> adblock plus ftw
2013-03-01T22:37:28 < dirty_d> is that thing hydraulic?
2013-03-01T22:37:32 < GargantuaSauce> yes
2013-03-01T22:37:43 < dirty_d> i always thought of hydraulics as slow
2013-03-01T22:38:07 < GargantuaSauce> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chPanW0QWhA
2013-03-01T22:38:13 < GargantuaSauce> boston dynamics does some crazy shit
2013-03-01T22:38:54 < GargantuaSauce> also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mclbVTIYG8E
2013-03-01T22:39:14 < dirty_d> if i saw that running at me I'd shit
2013-03-01T22:39:37 <+Steffanx> GargantuaSauce US military monies...
2013-03-01T22:39:42 < GargantuaSauce> yup
2013-03-01T22:40:02 < GargantuaSauce> sadly the main driving force behind robotics advancements
2013-03-01T22:40:17 <+Steffanx> Sad, but true indeed
2013-03-01T22:40:19 < dirty_d> that thing is hydraulic too?
2013-03-01T22:40:23 < GargantuaSauce> yes
2013-03-01T22:40:29 < dirty_d> it must have hoses feedign it from an external pump right?
2013-03-01T22:40:48 < GargantuaSauce> yeah the power is offboard, it would be much slower with a 4-cycle engine and pump onboard
2013-03-01T22:41:46 < dirty_d> why the fuck did they make a super complex robot to test military uniforms?
2013-03-01T22:41:47 < dirty_d> lol
2013-03-01T22:42:13 < GargantuaSauce> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFGfq0pRczY
2013-03-01T22:44:08 < dirty_d> thats pretty scary
2013-03-01T22:44:21 < dirty_d> you can see the hardware is totally there
2013-03-01T22:44:36 < dirty_d> if that thing had a thinking brain it could murder the fuck out of shit
2013-03-01T22:49:32 <+Steffanx> You copter is more scary dirty_d
2013-03-01T22:49:35 <+Steffanx> *your
2013-03-01T22:50:11 < dirty_d> lol
2013-03-01T22:50:27 < dirty_d> maybe ill try to fly it tonight
2013-03-01T22:50:30 < dirty_d> muahahaha
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2013-03-01T22:50:45 < dirty_d> with my defective f3disco
2013-03-01T22:50:58 < dirty_d> all ahead full!
2013-03-01T22:54:26 < dirty_d> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h6jB7zROQk&feature=endscreen&NR=1
2013-03-01T22:54:30 < dirty_d> robot shark
2013-03-01T22:54:33 < dirty_d> at the end
2013-03-01T22:55:18 < dirty_d> wow, also a very real looking bird
2013-03-01T22:58:59 < Laurenceb_> suppp
2013-03-01T22:59:12  * Laurenceb_ returns to chibios debugging
2013-03-01T23:01:54 <+Steffanx> The one at 5:45 sucks dirty_d .. it has a cable connected to it :(
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2013-03-01T23:04:22 < Laurenceb_> aha found the error
2013-03-01T23:04:38 < Laurenceb_> jumps within CCM are not setting the last bit
2013-03-01T23:04:41 < Laurenceb_> of the address
2013-03-01T23:06:12 < Laurenceb_> how odd
2013-03-01T23:06:23 < Laurenceb_> the veneer function is jumping correctly
2013-03-01T23:07:01 <+Steffanx> I wonder Laurenceb_ you REALLY need all the fancy technics?
2013-03-01T23:07:11 < Laurenceb_> huh?
2013-03-01T23:07:15 < Laurenceb_> CCM runs faster
2013-03-01T23:07:29 <+Steffanx> Yes, and you REALLY need that?
2013-03-01T23:07:46 <+Steffanx> I mean, sometimes it seems you make it extra complicated to make it more complicated :P
2013-03-01T23:08:44 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2013-03-01T23:09:04 <+Steffanx> but maybe that's my "subjective observation" :)
2013-03-01T23:12:33 < Laurenceb_> maybe it needs to know that CCM is thumb code or something...
2013-03-01T23:18:12 < Laurenceb_> oh wtf
2013-03-01T23:18:16 < Laurenceb_> CCM is on D bus only
2013-03-01T23:18:20 < Laurenceb_> epic fail
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2013-03-01T23:18:32 < Laurenceb_> i was treating it like F3
2013-03-01T23:18:36 < zyp> in F4?
2013-03-01T23:18:38 < zyp> haha
2013-03-01T23:18:42 < zyp> thought you were doing F3
2013-03-01T23:19:22 < Laurenceb_> failz
2013-03-01T23:19:31 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2013-03-01T23:19:38 < Laurenceb_> itd be nice to work out what the issue is tho
2013-03-01T23:19:46 < Laurenceb_> so i can run similar code on F3
2013-03-01T23:20:05 < Laurenceb_> 1000008e:	d507      	bpl.n	100000a0
2013-03-01T23:20:15 < Laurenceb_> jump addresses within CCM are even
2013-03-01T23:20:28 < Laurenceb_> CCM load and jump to CCM seems correct
2013-03-01T23:21:10 < Laurenceb_> emeb was using asm running from F3 CCM
2013-03-01T23:21:54 < Laurenceb_> but im using c with __attribute__ ((section (".ccmram")))
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--- Day changed Sat Mar 02 2013
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2013-03-02T00:04:05 < dirty_d> i just got a great idea
2013-03-02T00:04:07 < dirty_d> http://i.imgur.com/dt4uYRI.jpg
2013-03-02T00:04:37 < dirty_d> i have these really thin silicone end caps
2013-03-02T00:05:24 < dirty_d> if i glue these between a something and like a steel plate that i mount my quadcopter controller on it should make a really nice mechanical low pass filter
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2013-03-02T00:09:21 <+Steffanx> Bad news for Laurenceb_ http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/01/entertainment-us-usa-girlsgonewild-idUSBRE92000J20130301
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2013-03-02T00:12:48 < dirty_d> lol
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2013-03-02T00:31:29 < emeb> Laurenceb_: what's the problem w/ ccm?
2013-03-02T00:38:18 < emeb> I'm able to run C functions in F3 ccm - all the secrets are here: https://github.com/emeb/f303_sdr
2013-03-02T00:39:04 < ds2> oooh SDR
2013-03-02T00:39:27 < emeb> wishful SDR.
2013-03-02T00:39:48 < emeb> only sorta works - front end tuner/filter routine isn't selective enough to be useful.
2013-03-02T00:40:01 < emeb> and making it selective enough wouldn't run realtime.
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2013-03-02T00:46:12 < Robint91> emeb, executing from ccm, do you get the full speed
2013-03-02T00:46:21 < Robint91> or are the waitstates needed?
2013-03-02T00:46:33 < emeb> Robint91: Runs full speed AFAICT
2013-03-02T00:47:15 < Robint91> emeb, what happens with a MOV to CCM ram when executing that instruction of CCM ram?
2013-03-02T00:48:55 < emeb> Robint91: dunno - haven't tried it. The code I was running there was loading from regular SRAM.
2013-03-02T00:49:45 < Laurenceb_> back
2013-03-02T00:49:58 < Laurenceb_> it looks to me like something was a little wrong with emebs code
2013-03-02T00:50:04 < Laurenceb_> seems several times too slow
2013-03-02T00:50:22 < Laurenceb_> emeb: yeah i ready your code, but it wouldn't be effected by my bug
2013-03-02T00:50:27 < ds2> oh
2013-03-02T00:50:33 < ds2> what if you over clock it?
2013-03-02T00:50:36 < Laurenceb_> i see issues calling one function from another from within CCM
2013-03-02T00:51:03 < emeb> Laurenceb_: my amrx() function calls the dds() routine, but that's assy.
2013-03-02T00:51:07 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Quit: zzzzZZzzz]
2013-03-02T00:51:28 < Laurenceb_> hmm actually maybe im getting confused by gdb wrapping and stuff..
2013-03-02T00:51:32 < emeb> (and they're both in ccm)
2013-03-02T00:52:37 < emeb> reminds me - when a gcc routine does a function call across the ccm / normal boundary it sticks in this shim routine. Why?
2013-03-02T00:53:07 < Laurenceb_> as you need a long jump
2013-03-02T00:53:19 < Laurenceb_> its too large to do a relative jump
2013-03-02T00:53:29 < emeb> so why doesn't it just do a long jump from the calling routine?
2013-03-02T00:53:29 < Laurenceb_> its called a veneer function
2013-03-02T00:53:36 < emeb> right - veneer.
2013-03-02T00:53:37 < Laurenceb_> dunno
2013-03-02T00:53:46 < Laurenceb_> cuz its how the compile does it :P
2013-03-02T00:53:59 < emeb> stUpid compIler.
2013-03-02T00:54:06 < Laurenceb_> i need to benchmark your code on my f3
2013-03-02T00:54:15 < Laurenceb_> its still with a nerman00b
2013-03-02T00:54:20 < Laurenceb_> *p
2013-03-02T00:54:32 < emeb> go for it. Hope you find something to make it work. :)
2013-03-02T00:54:36 < Laurenceb_> so much fail....
2013-03-02T00:54:50 < Laurenceb_> today someone asked me how much a linux license costs
2013-03-02T00:55:01 < emeb> answer: how much you got?
2013-03-02T00:55:43  * emeb is super-gluing SMD 3.5mm jacks back onto a board after they were ripped off by a rockstar.
2013-03-02T00:56:22 < emeb> next time - TH.
2013-03-02T00:57:17 < Laurenceb_> someone decided to swap n and p channel fet "cuz they are the same thing right?"
2013-03-02T00:57:34 < Laurenceb_> someone filled a hirose connector with solder "to get it to stick to the board"
2013-03-02T00:57:44 < emeb> surrounded by geniuses, eh?
2013-03-02T00:57:47 -!- mrcan_ is now known as mrcan
2013-03-02T00:57:51 < Laurenceb_> yup
2013-03-02T00:59:01 < Laurenceb_> someone had a nerdrage when i called something biological "design"
2013-03-02T00:59:18 < Laurenceb_> OMFG.... INTELLIGENT DESIGN ENABLER!!!
2013-03-02T01:00:23 < Laurenceb_> PEOPLE LIKE YOU ENABLE RELIGION
2013-03-02T01:01:22 < Erlkoenig> people, who declare most aspects of catholic religion as stupid bullshit, but believe in some parts of it, are also funny
2013-03-02T01:02:00 < Robint91> emeb, and that is why I still refuse to use mini usb on my products. A normal USB B jack is o sturdy. Almost unbreakable
2013-03-02T01:02:36 < Erlkoenig> are there USB-B-style Jacks that are OTG-compatible?
2013-03-02T01:02:59 < emeb> Robint91: these are TH and quite nice - http://i.imgur.com/7SAYo.jpg
2013-03-02T01:03:10 < emeb> courtesy of dongs...
2013-03-02T01:03:12 < Laurenceb_> dongs suggestion
2013-03-02T01:03:14 < Laurenceb_> yeah lol
2013-03-02T01:03:23 < Laurenceb_> they look... DESIGNED!!!!
2013-03-02T01:03:24 < Robint91> emeb, those are ugly as hell :p
2013-03-02T01:03:55 < emeb> Robint91: I don't care!!! :)
2013-03-02T01:04:03 < Laurenceb_> but if i tested some connector designs at random and chose the best one its clearly not design right?
2013-03-02T01:04:15 < Laurenceb_> otherwie id be a religion enabler
2013-03-02T01:04:22 < emeb> Laurenceb_: are genetic algorithms the work of satan?
2013-03-02T01:04:23 < Laurenceb_> and thats kind of like a rape enabler
2013-03-02T01:04:28 < Erlkoenig> religion of EE design
2013-03-02T01:07:55 < Erlkoenig> the moment you find out the thing you want to program is a contradiction to itself.
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2013-03-02T01:10:00 < dongs> sup dongs
2013-03-02T01:11:03 < dongs> emeb: does math in http://ie.u-ryukyu.ac.jp/k098594/files/2011/02/110204master.pdf make sense to you
2013-03-02T01:15:09 < emeb> dongs: looking...
2013-03-02T01:15:17 < gxti> i've also considered switching to pth usb but i still have like 20 left
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2013-03-02T01:16:21 < gxti> well, not necessarily pth but at least with solder tabs on the case
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2013-03-02T01:17:44 < dongs> the miniusb zyp found isn't too terrible
2013-03-02T01:17:56 < gxti> what are people's opinions on mini vs micro?
2013-03-02T01:17:57 < dongs> i used it in another proj, it has 4 pth legs
2013-03-02T01:18:10 < dongs> that one's probably the only useful format of microusb
2013-03-02T01:18:19 < dongs> the ones with flaps that tear right off hte board = garbage
2013-03-02T01:19:02 < gxti> this is what i have now, the problem should be apparent http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/UX60SC-MB-5ST(80)/H11671CT-ND/2004580
2013-03-02T01:19:11 < ds2> emeb: sure the super glue will work?
2013-03-02T01:19:25 < emeb> ds2: not sure, but it's holding for now.
2013-03-02T01:19:29 < gxti> i swear every time i go looking for usb connectors there's new cheaper shit in stock
2013-03-02T01:19:49 < emeb> dongs: which math in that paper were you wondering about?
2013-03-02T01:19:54 < ds2> emeb: what I found works better is to soak the entire connector and maybe 1/2" beyond it with hotmelt glue
2013-03-02T01:20:07 < emeb> ds2: I'd considered that too.
2013-03-02T01:20:44 < ds2> works even better if there are holes to force the hotmelt glue through
2013-03-02T01:20:46 < dongs> emeb: formulas after about 50% of page
2013-03-02T01:20:47 < gxti> dongs: this what you're talking about? http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/10103592-0001LF/609-4048-1-ND/2350355
2013-03-02T01:20:48 < ds2> acts like plastic rivets
2013-03-02T01:20:49 < dongs> er 50% of document
2013-03-02T01:21:09 < dongs> gxti: might be, i keep forgetting the fucking number so zyp has to remind me
2013-03-02T01:21:12 < dongs> lemme check my digikey ship history
2013-03-02T01:21:17 < gxti> but that's the idea at least
2013-03-02T01:21:44 < dongs> 609-4050-1-ND
2013-03-02T01:21:46 < gxti> i've started actually saving the CSV exports from digikey so i can search stuff
2013-03-02T01:22:38 < emeb> I thought it was this: WM17115-ND
2013-03-02T01:22:47 < dongs> emeb: thats my pth miniusb
2013-03-02T01:22:57 < dongs> hes talking about the micro w/through hole pads
2013-03-02T01:23:00 < gxti> oh, the one i linked is upside-down. i hate those.
2013-03-02T01:23:02 < emeb> ah - micro vs mini...
2013-03-02T01:23:15 < gxti> dongs: well, i could do either way
2013-03-02T01:23:19 < gxti> i haven't made up my mind yet which is superior.
2013-03-02T01:23:37 < dongs> i dont think you need micro in industrial board
2013-03-02T01:23:46 < dongs> micro is for iDevice faggots
2013-03-02T01:23:56 < dongs> so just do that through-hole miniusb and be happy
2013-03-02T01:26:24 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/6rWEAuy.jpg Laurenceb_-class link
2013-03-02T01:29:21 < emeb> dongs: that OFDM GnuRadio stuff looks about right - what I can understand through all the moonman language. :)
2013-03-02T01:29:44 < dongs> emeb, are those just all gnuradio modules chained together with some python filth?
2013-03-02T01:29:49 < dongs> or was there any actual originalcode involved
2013-03-02T01:29:53 < emeb> dongs: pretty much.
2013-03-02T01:30:09 < dongs> i would imagine its slow as balls, right?
2013-03-02T01:30:16 < emeb> there may have been some tweaking required, but AIUI most of that stuff is already in GnuRadio.
2013-03-02T01:30:18 < dongs> the guy says it needs like i7@3.3g to decode
2013-03-02T01:30:30 < dongs> a 430khz wide channel
2013-03-02T01:30:43 < emeb> dongs: I've not played around with the high end stuff in GR, but basic audio stuff runs realtime on my I7.
2013-03-02T01:31:03 < dongs> haha well thats a "relief"
2013-03-02T01:31:19 < emeb> and putting together a system is basically just drag & drop of functional blocks onto a diagram in their graphic editor.
2013-03-02T01:31:34 < dongs> emeb: whats funny is there are chips now < 3x3mm in size that do what that paper does in hardware realtime
2013-03-02T01:31:41 < dongs> using uA of power
2013-03-02T01:31:54 < emeb> dongs: absolutely - I've worked on some of them. :)
2013-03-02T01:31:58 < gxti> i bet you could do it on a cluster of raspberry pis
2013-03-02T01:32:15 < dongs> o fuck, thats a great idea for baird's pi cluster
2013-03-02T01:32:20 < dongs> each one does one gnuradio module
2013-03-02T01:32:45 < dongs> speaking of that where hte fuck is he
2013-03-02T01:32:52 < dongs> must be out bikeblogging
2013-03-02T01:33:51 < emeb> there are guys running simple GR stuff on Beaglebones, so you could probably do a few low to midrange blocks on an RPi
2013-03-02T01:34:02 < emeb> link them together thru ethernet.
2013-03-02T01:34:18 < emeb> I think GR has sinks/sources that go over ethernet.
2013-03-02T01:35:16 < dongs> im sure they will work cuz veerything in lunix is a file
2013-03-02T01:35:35 < dongs> so you can cat crap | gnuturd | more turd | opensores > final.avi
2013-03-02T01:54:54 < Laurenceb_> to be fair
2013-03-02T01:55:15 < Laurenceb_> a drag a drop editor that can set up DVBT decode is pretty impressive
2013-03-02T01:55:39 < Laurenceb_> even writing it in ASM would be pretty slow
2013-03-02T01:56:03 < Laurenceb_> the DVBT dongles do almost all the decode in hardware
2013-03-02T01:56:23 < Laurenceb_> OFDM frequency sync and symbol sync or whatever you call it
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2013-03-02T02:00:07 < Erlkoenig> how to disable exceptions from the C++ Standard Library... so that "throw..." just results in a hard fault or some endless loop?
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2013-03-02T03:05:00 < GargantuaSauce> Erlkoenig: personally i think you're fighting a losing battle by trying to make that sort of stuff sensible on an embedded platform
2013-03-02T03:05:54 < GargantuaSauce> i'd say use a macro to change it to a function call
2013-03-02T03:06:08 < GargantuaSauce> and presumably that function should both halt and disable (most) interrupts
2013-03-02T03:07:22 < Erlkoenig> unfortunetely, the throw() is located in the standard library and won't disappear this way
2013-03-02T03:07:41 < GargantuaSauce> well assuming the top of the stack is main() you could just stick a try in there
2013-03-02T03:07:54 < Erlkoenig> and i don't want it "sensible", i just want throw() to crash the program ;)
2013-03-02T03:08:05 < GargantuaSauce> i think you're fucked as far as dealing with exceptions in library functions invoked in interrupt handlers go, at least without doing the same in each one
2013-03-02T03:08:26 < GargantuaSauce> well you want it to behave deterministically, no?
2013-03-02T03:08:40 < Erlkoenig> i tried "try { }" around the library call, no effect
2013-03-02T03:08:48 < Erlkoenig> it still needs _sbrk and stuff
2013-03-02T03:09:18 < GargantuaSauce> well my real answer is stay the hell away from c++ :P
2013-03-02T03:09:21 < Erlkoenig> yeah i will have to write the code in a way that won't throw that exception... if it does, well, than crash
2013-03-02T03:10:32 < GargantuaSauce> and don't get me wrong, i love it despite its numerous and pervasive warts, it's my language of choice on a pc
2013-03-02T03:10:50 < GargantuaSauce> it just strikes me in many ways to be unsuitable for this sort of purpose
2013-03-02T03:11:26 < Erlkoenig> meh... at least classes and virtual functions are very useful
2013-03-02T03:11:56 < GargantuaSauce> i won't disagree, though both can be quite easily emulated with c
2013-03-02T03:12:05 < Erlkoenig> yeah, but ugly
2013-03-02T03:12:24 < GargantuaSauce> yeah right :P
2013-03-02T03:12:55 < GargantuaSauce> as if you arent introducing other forms of ugliness by using them...anyway i am not going to argue the language further
2013-03-02T03:13:09 < Erlkoenig> no, virtual functions work perfectly on my F4
2013-03-02T03:13:14 < Erlkoenig> without much ugliness
2013-03-02T03:14:31 < Erlkoenig> exceptions as such aren't so much of a problem... just the bloated error message generation, that won't work after all without any console...
2013-03-02T03:15:09 < GargantuaSauce> did you have catch(...) after the try?
2013-03-02T03:15:18 < GargantuaSauce> which should (should) catch all types thrown
2013-03-02T03:15:42 < Erlkoenig> yup doesn't work
2013-03-02T03:15:58 < GargantuaSauce> time to edit your cpp library :V
2013-03-02T03:16:07 < Erlkoenig> noooo....
2013-03-02T03:19:40 < GargantuaSauce> search your feelings, you know it to be true
2013-03-02T03:25:54 < GargantuaSauce> i guess you could try porting newlib
2013-03-02T03:26:49 < Erlkoenig> but nooo.... using an nonstandard standard library is so evil
2013-03-02T03:26:50 < GargantuaSauce> that'd give you _sbrk and such as well as allow you to use a uart as stdout
2013-03-02T03:27:14 < Erlkoenig> but i do not have uart connected to anything and i do not want _sbrk and dynamic memory management and all that stuff :o
2013-03-02T03:27:28 < GargantuaSauce> well you are using the fucking c++ std library
2013-03-02T03:27:33 < GargantuaSauce> it's made for use in an operating system
2013-03-02T03:28:03 < GargantuaSauce> that little fact is reflected across the board
2013-03-02T03:28:25 < GargantuaSauce> you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole
2013-03-02T03:28:57 < GargantuaSauce> either trim the corners or find the round one
2013-03-02T03:29:27 < Erlkoenig> hu but the standard library is already compiled for an embedded ARM system... no?
2013-03-02T03:29:37 < GargantuaSauce> compiled yes
2013-03-02T03:29:38 < GargantuaSauce> designed no
2013-03-02T03:30:01 < ds2> C++ is made so you will buy bigger and faster processors
2013-03-02T03:32:06 < gxti> it's all a CONSPIRACY
2013-03-02T03:32:34 < gxti> you can help fight it by using PICs from the 90s
2013-03-02T03:33:19 < Erlkoenig> C++ is still also designed to be hardware-near and efficient; for other purposes you can use Java
2013-03-02T03:33:41 < GargantuaSauce> the language and the standard library are not the same thing
2013-03-02T03:34:30 < GargantuaSauce> for example would you expect std::vector to work?
2013-03-02T03:34:33 < Erlkoenig> just doing -fexceptions also pulls in _sbrk, without actually writing any try/throw
2013-03-02T03:34:46 < Erlkoenig> no...
2013-03-02T03:35:11 < Erlkoenig> or it could work if i don't use resize or something
2013-03-02T03:35:46 < Erlkoenig> and why _getpid? why does exception handling neccessarily require knowing a PID?
2013-03-02T03:36:11 < GargantuaSauce> exceptions are one part of the language that blurs the line between it and the standard library
2013-03-02T03:36:34 < GargantuaSauce> the standard library is hands down designed for running on a full-fledged operating system
2013-03-02T03:37:09 < GargantuaSauce> it was not written with the intent for it to be used on a microcontroller
2013-03-02T03:38:29 < Erlkoenig> and that just for the fancy error reporting >:<
2013-03-02T03:40:48 < GargantuaSauce> i need to learn to be as profoundly dismissive as dongs
2013-03-02T03:40:50 < Erlkoenig> if used correctly, C++ should have no overhead compared to the C emulation of the features, and it's said that un-needed things should not generate overhead - if that would only work
2013-03-02T03:41:08 < GargantuaSauce> we're talking about the standard library
2013-03-02T03:41:28 < Erlkoenig> which belongs to C++, and which seems to be tightly coupled to the compilers exception handling
2013-03-02T03:41:35 < GargantuaSauce> yes
2013-03-02T03:41:46 < GargantuaSauce> and is written to interface with a posix operating system
2013-03-02T03:42:01 < Erlkoenig> so it shouldn't work on windows
2013-03-02T03:42:04 < GargantuaSauce> it relies on its existence on the machine
2013-03-02T03:42:11 < GargantuaSauce> windows has its own implementation
2013-03-02T03:42:13 < GargantuaSauce> designed for it
2013-03-02T03:42:55 < GargantuaSauce> i am not talking about overhead at all
2013-03-02T03:43:03 < GargantuaSauce> c++ has language features that rely on the standard library
2013-03-02T03:43:15 < GargantuaSauce> the standard library relies on the presence of an operating system
2013-03-02T03:43:18 < GargantuaSauce> it's as simple as that
2013-03-02T03:43:51 < GargantuaSauce> you can shoehorn it into a baremetal environment by providing your own implementation of a few particular functions
2013-03-02T03:43:58 < GargantuaSauce> but you appear to refuse to do this
2013-03-02T03:46:03 < GargantuaSauce> you need to do this to use the c stdlib too (parts of it) but the language is not reliant on their inclusion
2013-03-02T03:46:41 < GargantuaSauce> i imagine most rtos options provide that which is needed, if you're absolutely set on c++ perhaps you should look into them
2013-03-02T03:48:10 < Erlkoenig> i want to use lambdas and callbacks which rely on the standard library, but should (theoretically) just map to flat object code. i do not need all the fancy exception handling & reporting, so if g++ provided a way to not include that, one could use the first features without overhead...
2013-03-02T03:49:56 < Erlkoenig> and i don't think i need an RTOS just for string proccessing that i don't want.
2013-03-02T03:52:14 < GargantuaSauce> well have fun making that work i guess
2013-03-02T03:52:26 < GargantuaSauce> my googles tell me it's not possible
2013-03-02T03:55:15 < Erlkoenig> by modifying the standard library it is very well possible, just ugly. virtual functions and stuff works smoothly, so there C++ is useful there
2013-03-02T03:55:16 < GargantuaSauce> -fno-exceptions replaces throws with abort()s and removes all the stack unwinding stuff but i'm not sure it'll affect the linked library
2013-03-02T03:55:25 < GargantuaSauce> yes so modify the library
2013-03-02T03:55:53 < GargantuaSauce> i don't get why you're clinging to that latter fact so much, i know it's a useful feature...
2013-03-02T03:56:08 < GargantuaSauce> doesnt make the standard library any more suited to an embedded platform
2013-03-02T03:56:49 < Erlkoenig> parts of it are
2013-03-02T03:57:09 < BJFreeman> there is such a thing as overloading a function no need to change the libraries
2013-03-02T03:58:19 < Erlkoenig> how to overload the exception::what function?
2013-03-02T03:59:41 < Erlkoenig> (i never created any exception reference anywhere)
2013-03-02T04:06:29 < GargantuaSauce> okay you could recompile libstdc++ with -fno-exceptions
2013-03-02T04:06:33 < GargantuaSauce> i think that's the only option left
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2013-03-02T04:10:13 < Erlkoenig> or better, remove the fancy reporting code from the std::exception class, and so i could even use exceptions without bloat
2013-03-02T04:10:25 < GargantuaSauce> there is no such thing
2013-03-02T04:10:59 < GargantuaSauce> the mechanism by which they work in the first place is (arguably) bloated in the context of a platform with these sorts of constraints
2013-03-02T04:11:08 < GargantuaSauce> they make the stack quite a bit bigger i believe
2013-03-02T04:11:26 < GargantuaSauce> which will be even more significant with you messing with lamdas
2013-03-02T04:13:58 < Erlkoenig> i think the exception handling just adds "static" code tables in the ROM
2013-03-02T04:16:25 < GargantuaSauce> well i suggest you research this
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2013-03-02T06:01:42 < Erlkoenig> void std::__throw_bad_function_call () { while (1); }     this keeps std::function from the Standard C++ library from throwing an exception, without modifying the library itself... yeay
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2013-03-02T11:51:08 < dongs> zyp: https://github.com/Harekiet/m3osd/tree/ftdiusb a guy did ftdi vcp emu
2013-03-02T11:57:17 < GargantuaSauce> that's quite an amalgamation of acronyms
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2013-03-02T15:42:25 <+Steffann> lol Laurenceb__ in #highaltitude they figured out how to stop your trollings
2013-03-02T15:43:03 < Laurenceb__> they are sshing me O_o
2013-03-02T15:43:37 <+Steffann> No it was more like:
2013-03-02T15:43:40 < Laurenceb__> anyway i didnt start the trolling
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2013-03-02T15:43:52 <@Steffann> Laurenceb__ stop trolling
2013-03-02T15:43:52 < zyp> well, last time you got stabbed in the face
2013-03-02T15:44:05 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffann] by ChanServ
2013-03-02T15:44:05 <+Steffann> like that :P
2013-03-02T15:44:49 <+Steffann> he got stapped in the face zyp ?
2013-03-02T15:45:15 < zyp> 11:57:39 < UpuWork> if I click on that and its not relevant to the conversation Laurenceb I'm going to remotely stab you in the face
2013-03-02T15:45:34 <+Steffann> oh, zyp is lurking there too
2013-03-02T15:46:51 < zyp> Laurenceb__, are you familiar with pid-tuning quadrotors?
2013-03-02T15:47:03 < Laurenceb__> im familiar with pid tuning
2013-03-02T15:47:28 < zyp> well, I'm just wondering about the typical ranges of the gains for rate mode
2013-03-02T15:48:09 < Laurenceb__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller#Ziegler.E2.80.93Nichols_method
2013-03-02T15:48:12 < Laurenceb__> that works
2013-03-02T15:48:20 < Laurenceb__> but its going to be suboptimal
2013-03-02T15:49:36 < zyp> ah, still a decent way to get a baseline, I guess
2013-03-02T15:49:54 < Laurenceb__> i tried it for my pressure applicator arm
2013-03-02T15:50:09 < Laurenceb__> and it was about 500ms response time
2013-03-02T15:50:10 <+Steffann> Now your arm is gone?
2013-03-02T15:50:16 < zyp> :)
2013-03-02T15:50:17 <+Steffann> oh, it wasn't THAT bad
2013-03-02T15:50:19 < Laurenceb__> now its ~60ms
2013-03-02T15:50:30 < Laurenceb__> with optimal control
2013-03-02T15:51:10 < Laurenceb__> with weird nonlinear stuff autotuned PID is pretty suboptimal
2013-03-02T15:51:40 < zyp> I was thinking about using this midi controller to adjust the gains, so I was just wondering about which range I should set for each slider :p
2013-03-02T15:51:44 < Laurenceb__> haha
2013-03-02T15:52:38 < Laurenceb__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziegler%E2%80%93Nichols_method
2013-03-02T15:52:54 < Laurenceb__> the "some overshoot" tends to give some oscillation when on my arm
2013-03-02T15:53:03 < Laurenceb__>  - pressure applicator arm
2013-03-02T15:53:48 < Laurenceb__> s/some overshoot/Pessen Integral Rule
2013-03-02T15:54:12 < zyp> but rate filtering for a quad, does the gains always tend to be positive?
2013-03-02T15:54:22 < Laurenceb__> wut
2013-03-02T15:54:35 < Laurenceb__> gains should all be -ive surely
2013-03-02T15:55:17 < zyp> well, the filter is already doing negative feedback, of course
2013-03-02T15:55:58 < Laurenceb__> all the gain coefficients have the same sign
2013-03-02T15:56:03 < Laurenceb__> if that's what you mean
2013-03-02T15:56:17 < zyp> yes, that's what I mean
2013-03-02T15:56:55 < Laurenceb__> got you, yes
2013-03-02T15:57:34 < zyp> I'm feeding the filter with «setpoint - measurement», so the error is already negative
2013-03-02T15:57:39 < Laurenceb__> optimal control on a quad is going to get complex...
2013-03-02T15:57:45 < Laurenceb__> but it'd be a fun challenge
2013-03-02T15:57:49 < zyp> :)
2013-03-02T15:57:50 < Laurenceb__> yeah
2013-03-02T15:58:42 < Laurenceb__> im not sure a quad is nonlinear enough for optimal control to be orders of magnitude better
2013-03-02T15:59:16 < Laurenceb__> in my case I got around an order of magnitude going from PID to optimal control
2013-03-02T15:59:24 < zyp> by the way, I've been toying around with the idea of making a simple EKF for attitude filtering instead of a complimentary filter
2013-03-02T15:59:34 < Laurenceb__> yeah ive tried that
2013-03-02T15:59:37 < zyp> not position/speed, only attitude
2013-03-02T15:59:38 < Laurenceb__> it can work
2013-03-02T15:59:40 < Laurenceb__> yes
2013-03-02T15:59:44 < Laurenceb__> just a sec...
2013-03-02T15:59:57 < zyp> would the state vector be 7D then?
2013-03-02T16:00:05 < zyp> quat + gyro gains?
2013-03-02T16:00:13 < Laurenceb__> http://ukhas.org.uk/code:4_state_extended_kalman_filter_in_matlab
2013-03-02T16:00:15 < zyp> I mean, gyro offset
2013-03-02T16:01:04 < Laurenceb__> yes
2013-03-02T16:01:19 < Laurenceb__> my example was even simpler
2013-03-02T16:01:27 < Laurenceb__> it worked with a bench test
2013-03-02T16:01:28 < zyp> did you write that code? seems evident from lack of spaces :p
2013-03-02T16:01:38 < Laurenceb__> lolz, yes
2013-03-02T16:02:50 < qyx_> omg :D
2013-03-02T16:03:05 < zyp> well, ok
2013-03-02T16:03:18 < Laurenceb__> qyx_: thats the simplest case
2013-03-02T16:03:33 < zyp> then I'm gonna ask you about it some other day when I'm ready to write the code :p
2013-03-02T16:03:34 < Laurenceb__> its only going to get more complex when you add gyro bias...
2013-03-02T16:03:50 < Laurenceb__> i have the same thing with gyro bias actually...
2013-03-02T16:04:19 < zyp> well, let's take it later :)
2013-03-02T16:04:53 < Laurenceb__> ooh.. look what i found
2013-03-02T16:04:53 < qyx_> i was also considering optimal control for that hexacopter
2013-03-02T16:04:55 < Laurenceb__> http://ukhas.org.uk/code:7_state_ekf_with_bias
2013-03-02T16:04:59 < qyx_> but not enough brain power :/
2013-03-02T16:05:00 < Laurenceb__> a filter for zyp
2013-03-02T16:05:44 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-02T16:05:45 < Laurenceb__> F=[1,-g(1)/2,-g(2)/2,-g(3)/2,x(2)/2,x(3)/2,x(4)/2;g(1)/2,1,g(3)/2,-g(2)/2,-x(1)/2,x(4)/2,-x(3)/2;g(2)/2,-g(3)/2,1,g(1)/2,-x(4)/2,-x(1)/2,x(2)/2;g(3)/2,g(2)/2,-g(1)/2,1,x(3)/2,-x(2)/2,-x(1)/2;0,0,0,0,1,0,0;0,0,0,0,0,1,0;0,0,0,0,0,0,1];
2013-03-02T16:05:48 < Laurenceb__> sexy tiem
2013-03-02T16:06:32 < zyp> :)
2013-03-02T16:06:36 < Laurenceb__> you need to think about accel error with thins kind of stuff
2013-03-02T16:06:50 < Laurenceb__> i just had a error covar for the accel
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2013-03-02T16:06:57 < Laurenceb__> thats not always true
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2013-03-02T16:07:33 < Laurenceb__> oh yeah - I found that code can correct yaw bias without a magno
2013-03-02T16:07:35 < qyx_> speaking of that, how do you convert values from accel & gyro to same sample rate?
2013-03-02T16:07:38 < Laurenceb__> which is kinf of epic
2013-03-02T16:07:52 < Laurenceb__> qyp_: resampling
2013-03-02T16:07:57 < Laurenceb__> look it up
2013-03-02T16:08:03 < qyx_> ok, did that
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2013-03-02T16:08:06 < Laurenceb__> hehe
2013-03-02T16:08:12 < qyx_> but didn't seem to me like ideal solution
2013-03-02T16:08:33 < Laurenceb__> personally I'd sample all the sensors at higher rate than filter
2013-03-02T16:08:33 < zyp> ideal solution is a filter that takes the inputs async
2013-03-02T16:08:39 < qyx_> wouldnt be using analog sensors & discrete adc better?
2013-03-02T16:08:40 < Laurenceb__> then resample
2013-03-02T16:08:45 < Laurenceb__> not really
2013-03-02T16:09:01 < qyx_> why?
2013-03-02T16:09:02 < Laurenceb__> with the resampling you can eliminate lag on your sensors
2013-03-02T16:09:07 < zyp> can't the kalman filter be updated for each sensor seperately?
2013-03-02T16:09:09 < Laurenceb__> analogue picks up noise
2013-03-02T16:09:21 < Laurenceb__> zyp: less computationally efficient
2013-03-02T16:09:24 < Laurenceb__> but yes it can
2013-03-02T16:09:54 < zyp> that's very easy for a complimentary filter
2013-03-02T16:10:13 < Laurenceb__> kalman you tend to end up with excess matrix operations like that
2013-03-02T16:10:28 < zyp> since a complimentary filter consists of gyro integration and gyro error feedback as seperate steps
2013-03-02T16:10:32 < Laurenceb__> if you were lazy you could use the CMSIS matrix lib
2013-03-02T16:10:47 < Laurenceb__> and copy and paste that gnu octave code fairly easily
2013-03-02T16:12:45 < Laurenceb__> http://ukhas.org.uk/general:code
2013-03-02T16:12:54 < Laurenceb__> theres a bunch of stuff there
2013-03-02T16:13:46 < Laurenceb__> http://ukhas.org.uk/code:python_reedsolomon
2013-03-02T16:13:48 < Laurenceb__> haha
2013-03-02T16:15:13 < Laurenceb__> in the tiems before github...
2013-03-02T16:19:05 < Laurenceb__> http://ukhas.org.uk/code:ground_data <- ewwwwww
2013-03-02T16:20:39 < Erlkoenig> lulz, got the 2nd R/C Receiver, looks its FM Demodulator works exactly the same way the first one does; same FM Chip, even the same China-Comparator-Chip
2013-03-02T16:21:13 <+Steffann> You are talking about that 68c thingy Erlkoenig ?
2013-03-02T16:21:57 < Erlkoenig> http://www.hobbydirekt.de/LRP/Empfaenger/Phaser-Sport-40-MHz-LRP-88400::206204.html   <-- no, this one
2013-03-02T16:22:16 < Erlkoenig> http://www.ebay.de/itm/370766013627 <-- this ist the first one
2013-03-02T16:22:29 < Erlkoenig> different manufacturer, different model, same circuit :D
2013-03-02T16:23:31 <+Steffann> rebranding ftw
2013-03-02T16:23:38 < qyx_> chinese people are excellent in copying anything
2013-03-02T16:24:07 < Erlkoenig> well the PCB layout is different and the decoder stage too...
2013-03-02T16:25:04 < Erlkoenig> i am waiting for my quartzes to get delivered... then i'll see whether all that stuff works...
2013-03-02T16:25:13 < Erlkoenig> the scope will be very handy...
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2013-03-02T18:35:30 < Robint91> hi
2013-03-02T18:35:42 < Robint91> where do you get lcd panels?
2013-03-02T18:35:48 < Robint91> like 13" ones?
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2013-03-02T19:11:20 < jpa-> Robint91: ebay
2013-03-02T19:12:52 < Robint91> jpa-, in bulk?
2013-03-02T19:13:03 < jpa-> alibaba
2013-03-02T19:15:03 <+Steffanx> jpa- knows his sources
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2013-03-02T19:21:03 < dirty_d> tried to fly my quad last night in the dark
2013-03-02T19:21:34 <+Steffanx> tried?
2013-03-02T19:21:40 < dirty_d> only took it a few inches off the groud, oscillated bad, but worked
2013-03-02T19:21:45 <+Steffanx> and succeeded?
2013-03-02T19:21:48 < dirty_d> i just guessed at the PID values
2013-03-02T19:22:12 < dirty_d> i guess it was a success, but it needs tuning
2013-03-02T19:22:28 < dirty_d> i need to make some kinda landing gear
2013-03-02T19:22:40 < dirty_d> its too easy for the props to hit the ground if its not perfectly level
2013-03-02T19:22:51 < dirty_d> took a big gash out of the lawn, but it didnt hurt the prop
2013-03-02T19:24:31 < dirty_d> what i really need is to make a pcb to connect all the wires to the stm32
2013-03-02T19:24:38 < dirty_d> and be able to mount it correctly
2013-03-02T19:24:43 < dirty_d> its just all taped together with cardboard
2013-03-02T19:25:11 <+Steffanx> :P
2013-03-02T19:26:54 < dirty_d> http://i.imgur.com/cggBVwb.jpg
2013-03-02T19:26:55 < dirty_d> not pretty
2013-03-02T19:27:40 <+Steffanx> lol too much trash on your stairs
2013-03-02T19:28:05 < dirty_d> lol not mine
2013-03-02T19:29:09 < dirty_d> i got my new f3disco, only took like 2 days from digikey
2013-03-02T19:29:32 < dirty_d> im gonna save that until i get things working well though
2013-03-02T19:29:39 < dirty_d> i can see it flipping over and destroying it
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2013-03-02T19:51:04 < dirty_d> hmm
2013-03-02T19:51:11 < dirty_d> seems like this is running a lot slower now
2013-03-02T19:51:30 < dirty_d> my control loop takes like 1 millisecond now
2013-03-02T19:51:37 < dirty_d> was taking 300uS last i checked
2013-03-02T19:52:52 < dirty_d> taking 600us alone to transfer 6 bytes from the accelerometer over I2c
2013-03-02T19:52:58 < dirty_d> shouldnt take that long at 400KHz
2013-03-02T19:52:59 < Robint91> dirty_d, -_-
2013-03-02T19:53:07 < dirty_d> somethings definitely wrong
2013-03-02T19:53:22 < Robint91> that is really slow
2013-03-02T19:54:09 < dirty_d> should only be 120us not counting any overhead
2013-03-02T19:54:54 < Robint91> dirty_d, something around 200us should be normal?
2013-03-02T19:55:27 < Robint91> dirty_d, but a control loop @ 1khz is some heavy shit
2013-03-02T19:55:45 < Robint91> dirty_d, 400us for some floatingpoint stuff?
2013-03-02T19:56:13 < Robint91> dirty_d, what is the dominate pole in your system?
2013-03-02T19:58:34 < dirty_d> the 600us is just the i2c communication
2013-03-02T19:58:41 < dirty_d> there is a lot of other floating point calculations
2013-03-02T19:58:51 < dirty_d> but that only totals to about 300us
2013-03-02T19:59:01 < dirty_d> 400 actually
2013-03-02T19:59:05 < dirty_d> what is a dominant pole
2013-03-02T19:59:20 < dirty_d> the loop is only running at 380Hz
2013-03-02T19:59:37 < dirty_d> so even 1ms is still ok, it just shouldnt take that long
2013-03-02T20:00:35 < Robint91> dirty_d, mhh is the fpu enabled? and building with hardware fp?
2013-03-02T20:02:31 < dirty_d> Robint91, yea it works fine
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2013-03-02T20:02:51 < dirty_d> it seems like its just the i2c clock thats running slower now or something
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2013-03-02T20:20:20 < emeb> sweet! going through my old stock - found 3x stm32f405rg in unopened package.
2013-03-02T20:22:55 < dirty_d> i dont get it, i havent changed anything except that im using a new f3disco
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2013-03-02T20:25:14 < dirty_d> checked the prescalers and stuff, seems fine http://codepad.org/pU6ztwYh
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2013-03-02T20:28:37 < Laurenceb__> is ART accel enabled by default on F4  ?
2013-03-02T20:29:25 < Laurenceb__> dirty_d: i wrote some control code that using interrupt i2c
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2013-03-02T20:29:42 < Laurenceb__> then you can run some of the filtering/attitude whilst the sensors are still being read
2013-03-02T20:29:48 < Laurenceb__> *some of the sensors
2013-03-02T20:30:09 < dirty_d> im on f3, but whats ART accel?
2013-03-02T20:31:06 < dirty_d> i dont have any calculations to do until i have new sameples anyway
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2013-03-02T20:36:19 < Laurenceb__> cool, you have decent i2c then
2013-03-02T20:36:35 < Laurenceb__> cool, you have decent i2c the F4
2013-03-02T20:36:38 < Laurenceb__> wtf
2013-03-02T20:36:50 < Laurenceb__> *ART accel is on F4
2013-03-02T20:36:56 < gxti> cool, you have decent i2c thwtf are you doing Laurenceb__
2013-03-02T20:37:12 < Laurenceb__> autocomplete failing
2013-03-02T20:37:23 < dirty_d> lol
2013-03-02T20:38:43 < dirty_d> is there any i2c TIMINGR calculator for f3?
2013-03-02T20:38:50 < dirty_d> i made my own, maybe i made a mistake
2013-03-02T20:39:13 < dirty_d> this would be a lot easier if i had a damn scope
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2013-03-02T20:54:41 < dirty_d> do any of you have any 400kHz ic2 code for f3?
2013-03-02T20:54:54 < dirty_d> i wanna try someone else's TIMINGR value
2013-03-02T21:04:49 < Tectu> http://chibios-gfx.com/blog
2013-03-02T21:08:19 < Tectu> dirty_d, I only have F1 and F4 here
2013-03-02T21:08:22 < Tectu> dirty_d, but I'd have a scope
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2013-03-02T21:09:19 < qyx_> dirty_d: why are you running your i2c at such low freq?
2013-03-02T21:09:32 < qyx_> if you need faster data transmission, use higher freq
2013-03-02T21:09:44 < qyx_> some accels/gyros are specified up to several MHz
2013-03-02T21:13:31 < dirty_d> qyx_, i think the accel on the f3disco is 400khz max
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2013-03-02T21:13:46 < dirty_d> but the problem is that its taking longer than it should to read from it at 400khz
2013-03-02T21:14:01 < dirty_d> like its not actually 400khz
2013-03-02T21:14:04 < Robint91> dirty_d, isn't there sample code for it?
2013-03-02T21:14:34 < Laurenceb__> I like the chibios gfx Tectu
2013-03-02T21:14:37 < dirty_d> Robint91, yea using the stdperiph lib
2013-03-02T21:14:40 < dirty_d> im not using it though
2013-03-02T21:14:46 < Laurenceb__> will have to make some touchscreen stuff
2013-03-02T21:14:49 < Tectu> Laurenceb__, trolling?
2013-03-02T21:14:57 < Tectu> Laurenceb__, irony?
2013-03-02T21:14:59 < Laurenceb__> lol
2013-03-02T21:15:04 < Laurenceb__> NO
2013-03-02T21:15:08 < Tectu> seriously? Thank you :)
2013-03-02T21:15:11 < Laurenceb__> hehe
2013-03-02T21:15:18 < Laurenceb__> everyone assumed im always trolling
2013-03-02T21:15:24 < Tectu> haha
2013-03-02T21:15:38 < Tectu> do you have a certain project you'll need a touchscreen or just for fun?
2013-03-02T21:15:39 < qyx_> will you commit some of your code then?
2013-03-02T21:15:45 < qyx_> without spaces?
2013-03-02T21:15:53 < dirty_d> the wierd thing is that it was working as fast as it should have before
2013-03-02T21:16:03 < qyx_> dirty_d: is there lis331?
2013-03-02T21:16:04 < dirty_d> and i havent changed anything except that i have a new f3disco
2013-03-02T21:16:21 < qyx_> i don't remember exactly
2013-03-02T21:16:21 < Laurenceb__> Tectu: maybe a work project
2013-03-02T21:16:37 < Laurenceb__> but then there may be issues with GPL
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2013-03-02T21:16:45 < Tectu> Laurenceb__, sounds good. I still have to fix licensing issues
2013-03-02T21:16:49 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, lol
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2013-03-02T21:16:54 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, what exactly do you mean?
2013-03-02T21:17:11 < dirty_d> qyx_, LSM303DLHC
2013-03-02T21:17:12 < Laurenceb_> well boss wont be happy with releasing firmware under GPL
2013-03-02T21:17:30 < Tectu> I fully understand
2013-03-02T21:17:36 < Tectu> you're doing some medicinal stuff, right?=
2013-03-02T21:17:52 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-02T21:18:13 < Robint91> Laurenceb_, steal the code
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2013-03-02T21:18:28 < qyx_> dirty_d: accel + magneto? i used that on my board some time ago with at91sam7s64
2013-03-02T21:18:29 < Tectu> Robint91, you're not being helpful :P
2013-03-02T21:19:21 < Robint91> Tectu, they are using GPL, nuff said
2013-03-02T21:20:14 < dirty_d> qyx_, yea
2013-03-02T21:20:32 < qyx_> dirty_d: go up to maximum freq on which you are still  getting correct data and then lower it a bit
2013-03-02T21:20:41 < dirty_d> qyx_, thats not the problem though
2013-03-02T21:20:58 < dirty_d> im running it at 400kHz and its taking 600us to read 8 bytes
2013-03-02T21:21:15 < dirty_d> well to read 6 bytes
2013-03-02T21:21:19 < dirty_d> but send 2
2013-03-02T21:21:39 < qyx_> how do you read these 8 bytes?
2013-03-02T21:21:39 < dirty_d> it should be lower that that shouldnt it?
2013-03-02T21:22:09 < qyx_> start+w, write command, repeated start+r, read 6 bytes continuously, stop?
2013-03-02T21:22:12 < dirty_d> qyx_, http://codepad.org/z3NCBvc2
2013-03-02T21:22:17 < dirty_d> yea
2013-03-02T21:22:17 < qyx_> *read command
2013-03-02T21:23:20 < dirty_d> and these are the functions, http://codepad.org/pU6ztwYh
2013-03-02T21:23:53 < dirty_d> as far as i can tell it is running at 400kHz, but i dont have any way to physically check
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2013-03-02T21:26:06 < qyx_> on stm32 i used i2c only under chibios
2013-03-02T21:26:22 < qyx_> maybe you can check the calculations in its hal driver for i2c
2013-03-02T21:26:50 < dirty_d> its wierd because it was working at what seemed to be the correct speed with my last board
2013-03-02T21:27:01 < dirty_d> the whole control loop finished in 300us
2013-03-02T21:27:13 < dirty_d> now it takes 1ms, and its the i2c thats taking all the time
2013-03-02T21:27:15 < qyx_> then i don't know
2013-03-02T21:27:31 < dirty_d> i need to get a scope bad
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2013-03-02T21:34:17 < emeb> just don't get a bad scope
2013-03-02T21:36:00 < Laurenceb_> https://github.com/mabl/ChibiOS/blob/master/os/hal/platforms/STM32F4xx/hal_lld.c#L219
2013-03-02T21:36:12 < Laurenceb_> anyone got any idea what SCB is?
2013-03-02T21:36:53 -!- Claude is now known as claude
2013-03-02T21:37:20 < karlp> system control block?
2013-03-02T21:37:33 < karlp> look it up y0
2013-03-02T21:38:05 < karlp> that's not a bug I remember in the errrata though
2013-03-02T21:39:29 < Laurenceb_> yeah but firefox pdf viewer is slow :-/
2013-03-02T21:39:36 < Laurenceb_> think ill return to evince
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2013-03-02T21:41:26 < dirty_d> maybe im just timing this wrong
2013-03-02T21:41:32 < dirty_d> thats a big possibility
2013-03-02T21:42:12 < qyx_> furfux pdf viewer?
2013-03-02T21:42:14 < qyx_> Laurenceb_: wat?
2013-03-02T21:42:24 < dirty_d> g_counter = TIM2->CNT; /*do i2c stuff*/ g_counter = TIM2->CNT - g_counter;
2013-03-02T21:42:34 < dirty_d> then i just hit ctrl+c and print g_counter
2013-03-02T21:42:44 < dirty_d> and if its 4 billion something i know it rolled over and dont use that value
2013-03-02T21:42:46 < Laurenceb_> qyx_: firefox has a pdf viewer
2013-03-02T21:42:59 < Laurenceb_> the viewer is dog ass slow XD
2013-03-02T21:43:19 < dirty_d> it should be counting at 24Mhz
2013-03-02T21:43:55 < dirty_d> so i do print (1.0 / 24e6) * g_counter
2013-03-02T21:44:01 < dirty_d> and get 600us
2013-03-02T21:45:00 < Laurenceb_> oh its not there lol
2013-03-02T21:45:10 < Laurenceb_> as system control is part of cortex m4
2013-03-02T21:46:44 < dirty_d> ok, what the fuck, now its printing what looks like the right time, 200us
2013-03-02T21:46:50 < dirty_d> and i havent done a damn thing
2013-03-02T21:46:56 < Laurenceb_> karlp: i dodnt get the chibios comments
2013-03-02T21:47:07 < Laurenceb_> 0x1000 = Revision A <- from ref manual
2013-03-02T21:47:21 < Laurenceb_> DBGMCU->IDCODE == 0x20006411 <- chibios
2013-03-02T21:47:22 < Laurenceb_> wtf
2013-03-02T21:50:17 < ds2> Laurenceb_: did you ever get complete decent readings from your sensors?
2013-03-02T21:50:26 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-02T21:50:29 < Laurenceb_> why?
2013-03-02T21:50:48 < Laurenceb_> lsm303 + itg3200 produced very good data
2013-03-02T21:50:49 < ds2> working on the LSM303DLHC and getting wacky numbers now and then on the accel side
2013-03-02T21:50:52 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2013-03-02T21:51:01 < Laurenceb_> never saw that myself
2013-03-02T21:51:09 < ds2> you changed parts?
2013-03-02T21:51:18 < ds2> thought you were using the accel/gyro combo sensor?
2013-03-02T21:51:24 < Laurenceb_> iirc i have lsm303dlh
2013-03-02T21:51:30 < Laurenceb_> ie not the c part
2013-03-02T21:51:40 < ds2> ahhhh... that is the older one with 2 I2C buses?
2013-03-02T21:51:42 < Laurenceb_> i stole 1.8v from the itg3200 regout pin
2013-03-02T21:51:43 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-02T21:51:49 < ds2> gotcha
2013-03-02T21:51:51 < Laurenceb_> and needs 1.8v
2013-03-02T21:52:24 < ds2> nevermind... using basically the F3 discovery sensors and it just isn't happy every now and then
2013-03-02T21:52:33 < Laurenceb_> the magno may be interfering - it outputs nasty noise
2013-03-02T21:52:55 < Laurenceb_> i am using the accel/gyro sensor, on another project
2013-03-02T21:53:06 < Laurenceb_> vehicle blackbox for commercial vehicle fleets
2013-03-02T21:53:12 < ds2> and the accel works fine in the accel/gyro sensor?
2013-03-02T21:53:43 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-02T21:53:51 < ds2> hmmm
2013-03-02T21:53:52 < Laurenceb_> apart from the FIFO is broken
2013-03-02T21:54:04 < ds2> I should try upping the bypassing then
2013-03-02T21:54:06 < Laurenceb_> but i followed the samsung driver for guidance in fixing it
2013-03-02T21:54:19 < Laurenceb_> galaxy S3 has same sensor
2013-03-02T21:54:21 < ds2> not using the FIFO at the moment
2013-03-02T21:54:31 < dirty_d> ds2, wacky how often?
2013-03-02T21:54:41 < ds2> the international S3 has the same sensor
2013-03-02T21:54:47 < ds2> US domestic has some other crap
2013-03-02T21:54:56 < Laurenceb_> it will drop samples unless you keep resetting the fifo
2013-03-02T21:54:56 < ds2> dirty_d: maybe every few minutes
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2013-03-02T21:55:24 < ds2> seeing spikes in value while not moving
2013-03-02T21:55:32 < Laurenceb_> oh i know
2013-03-02T21:55:42 < Laurenceb_> maybe it is updating half way through the read
2013-03-02T21:55:55 < ds2> but the docs say there is a setting to prevent that
2013-03-02T21:56:00 < Laurenceb_> is there a block update bit?
2013-03-02T21:56:03 < Laurenceb_> ah
2013-03-02T21:56:10 < ds2> that is enable, AFAIK
2013-03-02T21:57:13 < ds2> the mag noise theory deserves some investigating
2013-03-02T21:57:57 < dirty_d> ds2, think it could be an error in the i2c transmission?
2013-03-02T21:58:13 < ds2> dirty_d: nope. had it on a scope
2013-03-02T21:58:17 < dirty_d> ahh
2013-03-02T21:59:23 < ds2> Laurenceb_: when you say noise from the mag... is that random stuff or only during a S/R event?
2013-03-02T21:59:36 < Laurenceb_> during S/R
2013-03-02T21:59:48 < ds2> I see
2013-03-02T21:59:53 < dirty_d> this is weird, if i let this thing run for a few minutes, the i2c communication time speeds up to what it should be
2013-03-02T21:59:59 < ds2> maybe boosting the SETP/SETC cap might be good then
2013-03-02T22:00:09 < dirty_d> but for the first few minutes its 3x slower than it should be
2013-03-02T22:00:17 < ds2> dirty_d: are you doing it in sw or using the i2c hw?
2013-03-02T22:00:23 < dirty_d> i2c hw on f3
2013-03-02T22:00:46 < ds2> maybe you have contention on the buses?
2013-03-02T22:00:50 < ds2> blah
2013-03-02T22:00:52 < dirty_d> just one device
2013-03-02T22:00:54 < ds2> that was ambigious
2013-03-02T22:01:04 < ds2> I mean the internal bus
2013-03-02T22:01:10 < ds2> amba or whatever it is called
2013-03-02T22:01:11 < dirty_d> i dont think so
2013-03-02T22:01:24 < dirty_d> ive commented everything out except for the i2c code, so not much else is going on
2013-03-02T22:01:27 < Laurenceb_> in stlink, this debug text:   Device connected is: F4 device, id
2013-03-02T22:01:27 < Laurenceb_> 0x20006411
2013-03-02T22:01:36 < Laurenceb_> is that the IDCODE?
2013-03-02T22:01:51 < Laurenceb_> DBGMCU_IDCODE  ?
2013-03-02T22:03:28 <+Steffanx> Should be
2013-03-02T22:04:02 < Laurenceb_> damn
2013-03-02T22:04:16 < Laurenceb_> that means F4discovery has broken ART accel
2013-03-02T22:04:26 <+Steffanx> uh?
2013-03-02T22:07:06 < karlp> is that in f4 errata, or are you going on the chibios code as gospel?
2013-03-02T22:07:57 < Laurenceb_> seems to only be in the chibios code
2013-03-02T22:09:03 < gxti> stack overflows r phun
2013-03-02T22:09:23 < gxti> why does stm32 not have a stack limit register, or is chibios just not using it?
2013-03-02T22:10:02 < Laurenceb_> gxti: huh?
2013-03-02T22:10:05 < Laurenceb_> oh nvm
2013-03-02T22:10:14 < Laurenceb_> thought you were talking about ART accel issues
2013-03-02T22:10:28 < gxti> not everything is about you Laurenceb_
2013-03-02T22:10:38 < Laurenceb_>  :(
2013-03-02T22:12:03 < Laurenceb_> " STM32F40x and STM32F41x STM32F40x and STM32F41x silicon limitations
2013-03-02T22:12:03 < Laurenceb_> Doc ID 022183 Rev 3 9/30
2013-03-02T22:12:03 < Laurenceb_> 2.1 System limitations
2013-03-02T22:12:03 < Laurenceb_> 2.1.1 ART Accelerator prefetch
2013-03-02T22:12:03 < Laurenceb_> queue instruction is not supported
2013-03-02T22:12:04 < Laurenceb_> Description
2013-03-02T22:12:06 < Laurenceb_> The ART Accelerator prefetch queue instruction is not supported on revision A devices"
2013-03-02T22:12:22 < Laurenceb_> lulwtf firefox pdf
2013-03-02T22:12:34 < Laurenceb_> i guess thats a "feature"
2013-03-02T22:12:49 < Laurenceb_> i never selected a Doc ID
2013-03-02T22:13:19 < gxti> more like, PDFs are awful and only look right on the screen but are really little bits of spaghetti and draw instructions
2013-03-02T22:15:31 < Laurenceb_> so no mention of hanging the CPU
2013-03-02T22:15:45 < Laurenceb_> but the prefetch isnt supported :-/
2013-03-02T22:15:54 < Laurenceb_> nvm i have some newer F4discoveries
2013-03-02T22:17:19 <+Steffanx> you complain too much gxti
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2013-03-02T22:20:09 < gxti> Steffanx: what are you, the complaint nazi?
2013-03-02T22:21:02 <+Steffanx> No, more the comment on everything nazy
2013-03-02T22:21:04 <+Steffanx> i
2013-03-02T22:22:33 < Laurenceb_> lulwut  http://www.b3tards.com/u/91cbdca9d1a966f4d086/fathersformemes.jpg
2013-03-02T22:23:01 <+Steffanx> At least the photos are not 100% fake
2013-03-02T22:26:45 < ds2> ART accel?
2013-03-02T22:27:36 < ds2> ah
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2013-03-02T22:56:07 < Laurenceb_> «zyp»
2013-03-02T22:58:08 < Tectu> did anyone ever use the accelerometer on the F4?
2013-03-02T22:58:17 < Tectu> hey Steffanx, how are you?
2013-03-02T22:58:24 <+Steffanx> Fine fine, you?
2013-03-02T22:59:12 < Tectu> same
2013-03-02T22:59:16 < Tectu> enjoying girlfriend free time
2013-03-02T22:59:38 <+Steffanx> Poor you
2013-03-02T22:59:55 < Laurenceb_> as in free girlfriend time?
2013-03-02T23:00:37 < gxti> obvious stack overflow is obvious
2013-03-02T23:00:37 < gxti> -       char tmp[BCAST_BUF];
2013-03-02T23:00:38 < gxti> +       static char tmp[BCAST_BUF];
2013-03-02T23:00:47 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, m(
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2013-03-02T23:09:04 <+Steffanx> zyp are you looking for a usb related funny to make but also a little useless project?
2013-03-02T23:09:29 < Laurenceb_> a Łıŋ↓_↓»« project
2013-03-02T23:09:47 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb_ time to stop that
2013-03-02T23:12:27 <+Steffanx> Should we see something special there Laurenceb_?
2013-03-02T23:12:32 <+Steffanx> only seem some random characters
2013-03-02T23:12:39 <+Steffanx> *figures
2013-03-02T23:12:42 <+Steffanx> windings!
2013-03-02T23:12:43 < GargantuaSauce> squint at it
2013-03-02T23:12:54 <+Steffanx> or perhaps webdings
2013-03-02T23:13:27 < qyx_> webdongs
2013-03-02T23:13:47 <+Steffanx> Yet another victim of dongs rich vocabulairy
2013-03-02T23:14:14 < GargantuaSauce> you mean, beneficiary
2013-03-02T23:15:15 <+Steffanx> Stop using fancy english word people don't use very often GargantuaSauce
2013-03-02T23:15:25 <+Steffanx> *words
2013-03-02T23:17:23 < GargantuaSauce> allow this message to indicate my erudite and loquacious refusal
2013-03-02T23:18:21 <+Steffanx> Great
2013-03-02T23:19:59 <+Steffanx> How long did it take you to come up with words like that GargantuaSauce?
2013-03-02T23:20:08 < GargantuaSauce> a quick google
2013-03-02T23:21:26 <+Steffanx> I hope that was a lie
2013-03-02T23:21:54 < GargantuaSauce> you're right, i walked down to the library and consulted a thesaurus
2013-03-02T23:22:11 <+Steffanx> :P
2013-03-02T23:22:13 < dirty_d> i sorta figured out what the ic2 problem was
2013-03-02T23:22:16 < dirty_d> there is no problem
2013-03-02T23:22:32 <+Steffanx> You are the problem
2013-03-02T23:22:35 <+Steffanx> *were
2013-03-02T23:22:49 <+Steffanx> What was it dirty_d ?
2013-03-02T23:22:49 < flop> what does gargantua sauce mean?
2013-03-02T23:22:53 < dirty_d> TIM2 is running at 72MHz, then decides to do the right thing after a few min and run at 24mhZ LIKE I TOLD IT TO
2013-03-02T23:23:06 <+Steffanx> Haha
2013-03-02T23:23:12 < dirty_d> TIM3, TIM4, TIm15, and TIM8 all run at 24Mhz correctly
2013-03-02T23:23:23 < dirty_d> but somehow TIM2 is running at 72mhz after i set it to 24
2013-03-02T23:23:25 <+Steffanx> but how that makes it run slower?
2013-03-02T23:23:33 <+Steffanx> oh, it interrupts your code all the time?
2013-03-02T23:23:33 < dirty_d> but after a few minutes its running at 24
2013-03-02T23:23:36 < GargantuaSauce> gargantuan -> big
2013-03-02T23:23:39 < GargantuaSauce> sauce -> open sauce
2013-03-02T23:23:40 < dirty_d> how the fuck is that possible?
2013-03-02T23:23:45 < GargantuaSauce> this is my retardedly large laptop running linux
2013-03-02T23:23:48 < GargantuaSauce> hence gargantuasauce
2013-03-02T23:23:57 < dirty_d> Steffanx, i dont have any interrupts
2013-03-02T23:24:02 <+Steffanx> oh, ok
2013-03-02T23:24:20 < dirty_d> Steffanx, its not making it run slower, i was timing how long it takes to send i2c data with TIM2->CNT
2013-03-02T23:24:22 <+Steffanx> Sure there is not special reset code after you set it? :)
2013-03-02T23:24:30 < dirty_d> which is going 3x faster than i thought
2013-03-02T23:24:39 < flop> open sauce means what?
2013-03-02T23:24:46 <+Steffanx> open sores
2013-03-02T23:24:54 <+Steffanx> just with a different name
2013-03-02T23:25:02 <+Steffanx> *just a different name
2013-03-02T23:25:09 < flop> sores?
2013-03-02T23:25:27 <+Steffanx> When did you join ##stm32 flop ?
2013-03-02T23:25:27 < GargantuaSauce> free and open sauce software
2013-03-02T23:25:28 < dirty_d> in th few minutes its running at 72mhz i dont do anything that should make it go to 24
2013-03-02T23:25:39 < dirty_d> i do that when the program starts
2013-03-02T23:25:41 <+Steffanx> *open sores
2013-03-02T23:25:47 < GargantuaSauce> sauce
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2013-03-02T23:26:17 < flop> ok open source
2013-03-02T23:26:29 <+Steffanx> It's a word you can find in the vocabulairy from dongs, flop
2013-03-02T23:26:35 < qyx_> if you knew dongsbulary
2013-03-02T23:26:45 <+Steffanx> *-i
2013-03-02T23:27:21 < flop> ah, I also thought there were something dirty into it
2013-03-02T23:27:24 < GargantuaSauce> my life's work will be complete when sauce enters the vernacular and replaces dongs' terrible alternative homonym
2013-03-02T23:27:29 < dirty_d> im initializing all timers with the same function too
2013-03-02T23:27:33 < Laurenceb_> the reason timer2 is being weird is cuz its 32bit
2013-03-02T23:27:46 < Laurenceb_> so it has to overflow to load the registers
2013-03-02T23:27:47 < dirty_d> Laurenceb, hmm
2013-03-02T23:27:50 < Laurenceb_> that takes some time
2013-03-02T23:28:19 < dirty_d> load which registers?
2013-03-02T23:28:31 < flop> dongs
2013-03-02T23:28:32 < Laurenceb_> its own
2013-03-02T23:28:40 < Laurenceb_> they are shadowed
2013-03-02T23:28:42 < Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/65839734@N04/8522420406/in/set-72157632899865900
2013-03-02T23:28:45 < dirty_d> load the prescaler?
2013-03-02T23:28:47 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-02T23:29:19 < dirty_d> im confused
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2013-03-02T23:29:33 < Laurenceb_> read the datasheet
2013-03-02T23:29:46 < flop> anyone designed the stm32 with a backup battery?
2013-03-02T23:29:49 < dirty_d> i set the prescaler first though
2013-03-02T23:31:00 < jpa-> flop: i have designed a circuit where Vbat comes from li-ion battery (and Vdd from same battery but through a power switch)
2013-03-02T23:32:02 < dirty_d> Laurenceb, so are you saying i should trigger the update event in software after ive initialized each counter?
2013-03-02T23:32:33 < flop> jpa-: I need a backup battery for my stm32 design like a cr2032. Do I connect the battery + directly to vbat? or through a resistor? or diode?
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2013-03-02T23:33:15 < jpa-> flop: check that the voltage is within range, but yeah, you can connect it directly
2013-03-02T23:33:24 < jpa-> possibly add a bypass cap
2013-03-02T23:34:21 < flop> should I connect Vdd to vbat also(and adding a diode in series with the battery)?
2013-03-02T23:34:26 < jpa-> no
2013-03-02T23:34:39 < jpa-> the stm32 has internal switch
2013-03-02T23:34:51 < jpa-> it will use Vbat only when Vdd is off
2013-03-02T23:35:00 < jpa-> (also if you are on F4 and > 100 pin package, do mind the PDR_ON pin or your RTC will missbehave..)
2013-03-02T23:35:03 < flop> ah cool. I didn't know that
2013-03-02T23:35:48 < jpa-> (also if you have a lot of capacitance on the Vdd rail and fall time is more than 200ms on poweroff.. well, you shouldn't have any trouble but I had..)
2013-03-02T23:35:49 < flop> What should I do with the PDR_ON pin? pull it to vdd?
2013-03-02T23:35:57 < jpa-> yes, i think so
2013-03-02T23:36:02 < flop> ok
2013-03-02T23:36:10 < jpa-> but my RTC was misbehaving so.. don't trust me :D
2013-03-02T23:36:57 < flop> what sort of issue did you get with the RTC?
2013-03-02T23:37:05 < dirty_d> Laurenceb_, tim->EGR |= TIM_EGR_UG; solves the issue, you saved me a shitload of time, thanks
2013-03-02T23:37:09 < jpa-> resets sometimes on shutdown
2013-03-02T23:37:30 < jpa-> fixed it by adding a fet to pull down Vdd.. but it is really more of a hack, i don't understand what is going wrong
2013-03-02T23:37:40 < jpa-> i hope you don't get that
2013-03-02T23:38:50 < flop> perhaps the vbat switch is not turn on fast enough because of those extra capacitance?
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2013-03-02T23:39:36 < jpa-> flop: maybe
2013-03-02T23:39:47 < jpa-> flop: but if there was such a limitation, it should be in the datasheet
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2013-03-02T23:40:36 < flop> is the vbat switch controllable?
2013-03-02T23:40:39 < jpa-> but time to sleep =>
2013-03-02T23:40:39 < jpa-> no
2013-03-02T23:40:52 < flop> ok. good night buddy
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2013-03-02T23:45:29  * emeb is amused by Gargantuasauce's sesquipedalian prolixity.
2013-03-02T23:46:58 < GargantuaSauce> it's amazing how many polysyllablic synonyms there are in that vein
2013-03-02T23:47:54 < emeb> big words that mean big words. it's just so meta.
2013-03-02T23:48:22 < dirty_d> can you rotate a 3d vector representing angular velocity like you can an vector representing a direction and have it still make sense?
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2013-03-02T23:48:42 < dirty_d> like if for whatever reason i had my f3disco mounted at a 45deg angle on a quadcopter
2013-03-02T23:49:03 < dirty_d> i can rotate the accelerometer vector to measure the axes that i care about
2013-03-02T23:49:24 < dirty_d> but will that same rotation make the gyro vector measure what i want?
2013-03-02T23:49:31 < emeb> if you rotate a vector representing angular momentum, do you get a force vector at 90deg like with a gyroscope?
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2013-03-02T23:50:12 < Laurenceb_> if a vector rotates in a forest and there is no-one there to see it rotate, did it really rotate?
2013-03-02T23:50:59 < qyx_> is that some kind of metaphoric answer to the question?
2013-03-02T23:51:19 < emeb> it's a completely orthogonal question.
2013-03-02T23:51:27  * emeb is feeling geometric today
2013-03-02T23:51:34 < dirty_d> emeb, im not sure
2013-03-02T23:51:58 < dirty_d> i dont get what youre asking
2013-03-02T23:52:05 < dirty_d> you dont get a force vector with a gyro
2013-03-02T23:52:06 < GargantuaSauce> use quaternions everywhere and you can do whatever calculations you want in arbitrarily rotated coordinate systems
2013-03-02T23:52:11 < dirty_d> i am
2013-03-02T23:52:37 < emeb> dirty_d: it's just nonsense. vague references to gyroscopic precession.
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2013-03-02T23:54:24 < GargantuaSauce> so when you have done this previously with the gyros aligned with the vehicle's coordinate system you've just assumed the rotation from one to the other is zero
2013-03-02T23:54:40 < GargantuaSauce> i think you just need to account for the rotated basis of your intertial measurements
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2013-03-02T23:56:02 < dirty_d> i.e. rotate the gyro vector with the same quaternion?
2013-03-02T23:56:07 < GargantuaSauce> the opposite
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2013-03-02T23:56:45 < GargantuaSauce> now dealing with the fact that your accelerometer is not at the centre of gravity will be harder
2013-03-02T23:57:00 < GargantuaSauce> because an angular velocity will show as an acceleration
2013-03-02T23:57:01 < dirty_d> im not being that picky
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2013-03-02T23:57:25 < dirty_d> why the opposite rotation?
2013-03-02T23:57:37 < qyx_> also change in angular velocity will be seen
2013-03-02T23:58:34 < GargantuaSauce> if the disco is say rotated 45 degrees around y, in order to convert its imu's measurements to the vehicle's coordinates you have to rotate them -45 degrees
2013-03-02T23:58:35 < GargantuaSauce> that's all
2013-03-02T23:58:52 < dirty_d> oh yes, im doing that already
2013-03-02T23:58:59 < dirty_d> it does work for the accel vector
--- Day changed Sun Mar 03 2013
2013-03-03T00:00:01 < dirty_d> i use the leds on the board to indicate when its "level"
2013-03-03T00:00:10 < GargantuaSauce> in any case you should probably get an imu board so that you dont have to worry about the position of the mcu
2013-03-03T00:00:31 < dirty_d> if i hold it at a 45 degree angle and zero it then it shows level at that angle as i move it around slightly
2013-03-03T00:00:39 < GargantuaSauce> http://www.ebay.com/itm/300821362854
2013-03-03T00:01:08 < dirty_d> this is just so i dont have to have it mounted perfectly aligned with the quadcopter
2013-03-03T00:01:12 < dirty_d> i can just stick it on and zero it
2013-03-03T00:01:12 < GargantuaSauce> you need the addition of a magnetometer to use the acc+gyro properly anyway
2013-03-03T00:01:19 < GargantuaSauce> (and the pressure sensor sure doesnt hurt)
2013-03-03T00:01:20 < dirty_d> it probably wont make much of a difference though
2013-03-03T00:01:39 < Lionhearted> hey
2013-03-03T00:01:50 < dirty_d> you only need the mag if you want aboslute yaw control dont you?
2013-03-03T00:01:53 < dirty_d> not just rate control
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2013-03-03T00:02:43 < Lionhearted> im a windows user, should i use iar or keil ?
2013-03-03T00:03:18 < dirty_d> never used either, but i thought you could use arm-gcc on windows
2013-03-03T00:03:46 < Lionhearted> dirty_d, i need to learn, so i need debug and all of the fancyness
2013-03-03T00:03:56 < Lionhearted> i don't care for 32k limit
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2013-03-03T00:04:43 < qyx_> a friend of mine used something containing "u", "i" and "a"
2013-03-03T00:04:47 < qyx_> i don't remember the name
2013-03-03T00:05:29 < GargantuaSauce> i think you need a full sensor fusion approach to achieve a high degree of stability dirty_d
2013-03-03T00:05:44 < GargantuaSauce> disclaimer: i am less far along in my quad from scratch than you are
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2013-03-03T00:07:59 < dirty_d> for attitude stability just an accel and gyro should be fine
2013-03-03T00:08:14 < dirty_d> youll only have yaw rate stability but thats fine
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2013-03-03T00:10:01 < dirty_d> whats the 32k limit?
2013-03-03T00:10:35 < qyx_> probably the binary size in some commercial IDEs
2013-03-03T00:10:40 < dirty_d> oh
2013-03-03T00:12:59 < dirty_d> i think im just gonna zero the gyro, if the board is slightly misaliged you can just compensate with transmitter trim
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2013-03-03T00:18:24 < dirty_d> the days need to start getting longer already
2013-03-03T00:18:40 < dirty_d> im gonna go drive to my parents to try to tune and fly this thing and its gonna be dark already
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2013-03-03T01:56:13 < GargantuaSauce> my shit is breaking when i convert an int to a float
2013-03-03T01:56:16 < GargantuaSauce> but only with -O3
2013-03-03T01:56:17 < GargantuaSauce> :/
2013-03-03T01:56:24 < GargantuaSauce> er actually any optimizations
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2013-03-03T02:01:52 < dirty_d> breaking how
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2013-03-03T02:02:54 < GargantuaSauce> apparently halting completely, it doesnt seem to be calling any of the fault handlers
2013-03-03T02:03:53 < Laurenceb_> what compiler?
2013-03-03T02:04:06 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: gsmcmullin, R0b0t1_
2013-03-03T02:04:17 -!- Netsplit over, joins: gsmcmullin
2013-03-03T02:04:29 < GargantuaSauce> gcc, set up by SAT i think it was
2013-03-03T02:04:35 -!- Netsplit over, joins: R0b0t1_
2013-03-03T02:04:42 < GargantuaSauce> using hard float abi
2013-03-03T02:05:26 < Laurenceb_> set a breakpoint in the eabi int to float routine
2013-03-03T02:05:35 < Laurenceb_> to check it really is that
2013-03-03T02:06:25 < GargantuaSauce> well it doesnt seem to even execute code that comes before that point come to think of it
2013-03-03T02:06:39 < GargantuaSauce> makes me think the linker could be generating complete garbage or something
2013-03-03T02:07:11 < dirty_d> thats weird
2013-03-03T02:09:02 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, it still does it if you compile a simple test case?
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2013-03-03T02:13:08 < GargantuaSauce> ...no >:|
2013-03-03T02:14:10 < dirty_d> must be something else
2013-03-03T02:14:39 < dirty_d> is it a lot of code?
2013-03-03T02:14:50 < Laurenceb_> http://94.156.100.85:8081/RGB/
2013-03-03T02:15:31 < dongs> sup blogs
2013-03-03T02:15:33 < GargantuaSauce> it's a fair amount and has some retardedly structured dependencies in the standard periph lib
2013-03-03T02:17:01 < dirty_d> start commenting stuff out intil it starts not breaking
2013-03-03T02:17:02 < GargantuaSauce> also optimizations in my test case don't result in the fcvt being moved to fuck knows where
2013-03-03T02:17:04 < dirty_d> then narrow it down
2013-03-03T02:17:36 < GargantuaSauce> er vcvt
2013-03-03T02:17:42 < dirty_d> Laurenceb_, i have no idea what im doing
2013-03-03T02:17:57 < Laurenceb_> olimexino live demo
2013-03-03T02:18:26 < dirty_d> whats the deal with PWM
2013-03-03T02:18:28 < dirty_d> its not doing anything
2013-03-03T02:18:50 < GargantuaSauce> the only thing i can comment out to make it work is the conversion from int to float
2013-03-03T02:18:55 < GargantuaSauce> works fine without that or without optimizations
2013-03-03T02:19:29 < dirty_d> yea but i dont think its acutally the int to float conversion thats the root of the problem
2013-03-03T02:19:39 < GargantuaSauce> i blame the sauce
2013-03-03T02:19:57 < dirty_d> youre using the startup.s file they give you?
2013-03-03T02:19:58 < dirty_d> and all that
2013-03-03T02:20:00 < dongs> bloggin on blogs
2013-03-03T02:20:04 < dirty_d> that initializes everything?
2013-03-03T02:20:13 < dirty_d> and the .c file
2013-03-03T02:20:14 < GargantuaSauce> yes
2013-03-03T02:20:48 < dirty_d> try adding asm volatile("dmb") after each statement where you enable a clock
2013-03-03T02:21:14 < dirty_d> i had to do that with optimizations to make sure the clocks enabled before i use a peripheral
2013-03-03T02:21:53 < dirty_d> do you have any interrupts?
2013-03-03T02:22:04 < GargantuaSauce> not at the moment
2013-03-03T02:22:08 < dirty_d> ok
2013-03-03T02:22:44 < dirty_d> any pointer stuff that could be wrong and clobbering some regs?
2013-03-03T02:23:25 < GargantuaSauce> i don't think so
2013-03-03T02:26:00 < GargantuaSauce> oh fuck i just noticed .fpu softvfp in the startup.s
2013-03-03T02:26:07 < qyx_> i had the same problem with converting float to int, but it was multilib problem on arm7tdmi
2013-03-03T02:26:19 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, hopefully thats it
2013-03-03T02:26:28 < GargantuaSauce> what is the hard equivalent
2013-03-03T02:26:34 < dirty_d> id be pissed if i fixed it and it still kept crashing, lol
2013-03-03T02:27:13 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, hey actually i have that im mine too
2013-03-03T02:27:16 < dirty_d> im sorry
2013-03-03T02:27:17 < dirty_d> lol
2013-03-03T02:28:51 < dirty_d> have i really been using softfp?
2013-03-03T02:28:53 < dirty_d> cant be
2013-03-03T02:28:56 < dirty_d> code runs too fast
2013-03-03T02:29:08 < dirty_d> or is that just how it passes parameters
2013-03-03T02:29:53 < dirty_d> i think its probably ignoring it
2013-03-03T02:30:02 < dirty_d> since i have hardfp on the compile command line
2013-03-03T02:30:09 < Laurenceb_> attn dongs: http://www.flickr.com/photos/khaosworks/2403415356/
2013-03-03T02:32:21 < dirty_d> yea, commented it out and everything still works
2013-03-03T02:32:56 < GargantuaSauce> it probably is just some other stupid bug somewhere that i am never going to find
2013-03-03T02:33:34 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, add like volatile float = 1; to the first line in main and set a breakpoint after it
2013-03-03T02:33:42 < dirty_d> keep moving it down until it explodes
2013-03-03T02:34:13 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, are you using one of the disco boards?
2013-03-03T02:34:29 < GargantuaSauce> yes f4
2013-03-03T02:34:35 < dirty_d> oh, i have f3
2013-03-03T02:34:42 < dirty_d> id try to test it with my toolchain
2013-03-03T02:35:28 < GargantuaSauce> that line doesnt break
2013-03-03T02:36:13 < dirty_d> use asm volatile("nop"); as your breakpoint
2013-03-03T02:36:16 < GargantuaSauce> part of the problem is that optimizations remove or ridiculously obfuscate any trivial code, and mess with the order of more complex expressions to the point where it is very difficult to see what the hell is ogin gon
2013-03-03T02:36:48 < dirty_d> i never use anything but that wqhen i set a breakpoint because of what you just said
2013-03-03T02:38:03 < GargantuaSauce> and a breakpoint is not going to be useful to me
2013-03-03T02:38:24 < dirty_d> well if you get to it you know the problem code hasnt executed yet
2013-03-03T02:38:39 < GargantuaSauce> i have GPIOD->BSRRL=0xF000; long before the problematic line
2013-03-03T02:38:47 < GargantuaSauce> and the LEDs are off
2013-03-03T02:38:52 < GargantuaSauce> my lcd is never initialized
2013-03-03T02:38:56 < GargantuaSauce> etc
2013-03-03T02:39:56 < dirty_d> so the fpu stuff isnt the only problem?
2013-03-03T02:40:32 < GargantuaSauce> if i have the line where the int is converted to the float in there
2013-03-03T02:40:36 < GargantuaSauce> nothing is executed at all
2013-03-03T02:40:49 < Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/khaosworks/5319473687/in/photostream
2013-03-03T02:40:52 < Laurenceb_> i lolled
2013-03-03T02:40:59 < dongs> sup troll
2013-03-03T02:41:16 < Laurenceb_> trololololo
2013-03-03T02:41:21 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, i was having a similar problem and it was because of a peripheral clock not being enabled before i was using it
2013-03-03T02:41:33 < dongs> Laurenceb_: http://i.imgur.com/7p15aiR.jpg what could this be? its 14mhz channel bandwidth
2013-03-03T02:41:38 < dirty_d> you said youre using stdperiph right?
2013-03-03T02:41:52 < GargantuaSauce> partially
2013-03-03T02:42:16 < emeb> dongs: where did you grab that?
2013-03-03T02:42:23 < dongs> emeb, in my room
2013-03-03T02:42:38 < emeb> dongs: I mean what's the source? antenna?
2013-03-03T02:42:42 < dongs> yes
2013-03-03T02:42:46 < Laurenceb_> some kind of OFDM?
2013-03-03T02:42:52 < dongs> 14mhz of ofdm?
2013-03-03T02:42:54 < emeb> that's what it looks like
2013-03-03T02:42:57 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2013-03-03T02:42:58 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, can you post your code?
2013-03-03T02:43:23 < emeb> dongs: zoom in. use narrower rbw
2013-03-03T02:43:28 < GargantuaSauce> it will not be of much use to you without my hardware setup but ok give me a minute
2013-03-03T02:43:31 < Laurenceb_> whats the center at?
2013-03-03T02:43:39 < emeb> 215MHz
2013-03-03T02:43:40 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/6M7ZIKi.jpg
2013-03-03T02:43:59 < dirty_d> ok
2013-03-03T02:44:42 < dongs> emeb: at 215mhz?
2013-03-03T02:45:04 < dongs> center is 215 now yea
2013-03-03T02:45:08 < emeb> dongs: could be anything. don't know enough about what JP freq allocations are.
2013-03-03T02:45:21 < emeb> but spectrum sure looks OFDMish
2013-03-03T02:45:21 < GargantuaSauce> finally got around to making gdb work....it's hung in the reset handler
2013-03-03T02:45:34 < dongs> so make span 1mhz?
2013-03-03T02:45:41 < dongs> what about rbw
2013-03-03T02:45:53 < emeb> auto
2013-03-03T02:46:13  * emeb has the same analyzer on his bench
2013-03-03T02:46:29 < dongs> just looks boring like noise
2013-03-03T02:46:34 < Laurenceb_> rageeee
2013-03-03T02:46:40 < Laurenceb_> stupid google images
2013-03-03T02:46:47 < Laurenceb_> no JP frequency allocation
2013-03-03T02:47:29 < Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/khaosworks/5319973714/in/photostream
2013-03-03T02:47:33 < Laurenceb_> which one is baird
2013-03-03T02:47:45 < emeb> orange
2013-03-03T02:47:48 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/chBbpbi.jpg
2013-03-03T02:48:02 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, that will happen if you dont run it right
2013-03-03T02:48:10 < dirty_d> whic hcould be the problem
2013-03-03T02:48:21 < emeb> don't see individual carriers, but then you wouldn't unless you were tuned just right...
2013-03-03T02:49:05 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, do you do: monitor reset halt; !./compile_command; load; monitor reset halt; continue
2013-03-03T02:49:10 < emeb> dongs: if you turn on the AM demod do you hear anything but noise (any buzzing?)
2013-03-03T02:50:51 < GargantuaSauce> i just reset after writing, no halt
2013-03-03T02:52:09 < GargantuaSauce> do you have a bitbucket account perchance
2013-03-03T02:52:16 < dirty_d> nah
2013-03-03T02:52:26 < dirty_d> i guess that works though just doing reset
2013-03-03T02:52:30 < GargantuaSauce> alright i'll just open it to the derision of the world
2013-03-03T02:52:32 < dirty_d> ive always used reset halt
2013-03-03T02:52:33 < emeb> Laurenceb_: http://www.kbs.co.kr/techcenter/pdf/Japan_Frequency_Allocation.pdf <- pg 20
2013-03-03T02:52:47 < GargantuaSauce> https://bitbucket.org/Ultrasauce/robots
2013-03-03T02:52:51 < emeb> 174-223 is broadcasting.
2013-03-03T02:53:05 < emeb> probably some sort of TV
2013-03-03T02:53:06 < dirty_d> ultrasauce, lol
2013-03-03T02:53:37 < dirty_d> what am i looking at first-steps?
2013-03-03T02:53:41 < GargantuaSauce> yeah
2013-03-03T02:54:41 < Laurenceb_> guessing its kawaii channel
2013-03-03T02:55:01 < qyx_> couldn't be some dvb-t multiplex?
2013-03-03T02:55:04 < qyx_> using ofdm
2013-03-03T02:55:24 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, the fpu should already be enabled in SystemInit in startup*.c
2013-03-03T02:55:29 < dirty_d> it is in mine
2013-03-03T02:55:38 < GargantuaSauce> it's main.c line 137 that is making it break btw
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2013-03-03T02:56:25 < dirty_d> ok
2013-03-03T02:56:37 < GargantuaSauce> the one i'm using does not touch SPACR
2013-03-03T02:56:52 < qyx_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dvbt_spectrum.jpg
2013-03-03T02:56:54 < GargantuaSauce> i am planning on ditching all ties to stdperiph/examples i just havent gotten to it
2013-03-03T03:00:46 < emeb> was thinking ISDB-T, but that's only 6MHz wide.
2013-03-03T03:01:52 < emeb> Oho! Could be 2 ISDB-T channels abutted against eachother
2013-03-03T03:02:20 < Laurenceb_> double kawaii
2013-03-03T03:02:21 < emeb> notice in 1st picture there's a slight step in the power level...
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2013-03-03T03:03:31 < emeb> But center frequency isn't same as most examples I've seen  - they're all up in the 600-620MHz range.
2013-03-03T03:06:57  * qyx_ is listening to a mls sequence using his headphones
2013-03-03T03:07:08 < emeb> ssssssssssssssssssssss
2013-03-03T03:07:24 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, if you comment all the function calls in your loop it still breaks?
2013-03-03T03:07:38 < emeb> (if your polynomial is long enough. otherwise "chugchugchug")
2013-03-03T03:07:54 < qyx_> 2^13-1
2013-03-03T03:08:01 < emeb> kinda short
2013-03-03T03:08:28 < qyx_> i cannot afford longer due to computational costs
2013-03-03T03:08:39 < GargantuaSauce> it works dirty_d BUT i am pretty sure that is because it's optimizing out the statement that breaks
2013-03-03T03:08:43 < qyx_> i also need to think about bad doppler :S
2013-03-03T03:08:55 < emeb> what you using to compute? 8-bit PIC?
2013-03-03T03:09:21 < GargantuaSauce> dirty_d...well maybe not, i set m[j] to j+i and it still works
2013-03-03T03:09:27 < qyx_> no, it will be on f4 using that fancy FHT
2013-03-03T03:09:49 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, yea comment out each function one at a time until it breaks
2013-03-03T03:09:54 < qyx_> but i have no idea how to implement stretching
2013-03-03T03:10:05 < emeb> what's the application again?
2013-03-03T03:10:21 < GargantuaSauce> it works if i have the lcd_pixel calls commented
2013-03-03T03:10:34 < qyx_> ulstrasonic radar to my (not yet flying) hexacopter
2013-03-03T03:10:35 < GargantuaSauce> but that's because o is never used and thus m and f and n...
2013-03-03T03:10:58 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurence@host81-151-160-215.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2013-03-03T03:11:32 < emeb> aha - so you're transmitting a known noise burst via ultrasonic transducer, then looking for the correlation on the return?
2013-03-03T03:11:35 < qyx_> everything works as expected until id doesn't move, even small speed causes mls misalignment on the end
2013-03-03T03:11:53 < qyx_> using classic speaker & receiving using electret microphone
2013-03-03T03:12:04 < qyx_> as the transducers have only about 3dB bandwidth
2013-03-03T03:12:06 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, then make them volatile
2013-03-03T03:12:11 < qyx_> but yes, thats the theory
2013-03-03T03:12:12 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, make everything volatile in there
2013-03-03T03:12:38 < emeb> yeah - doppler is a killer in air/sound.
2013-03-03T03:12:44 < emeb> doesn't take much.
2013-03-03T03:12:49 < GargantuaSauce> same deal
2013-03-03T03:13:07 < qyx_> so i probably have to correlate multiple times using differently stretched responses
2013-03-03T03:13:22 < emeb> or else send a freq ref pilot tone.
2013-03-03T03:13:57 < emeb> is this a bursty system?
2013-03-03T03:14:02 < emeb> or continuous?
2013-03-03T03:14:07 < qyx_> hm, not a bad idea
2013-03-03T03:14:17 < qyx_> i designed it as a 2 100ms bursts every second
2013-03-03T03:14:35 < qyx_> but now i am considering if it wouldnt be better to make mls longer and make it continuous
2013-03-03T03:14:50 < emeb> ok, so you can interleave a pilot tone, pick out the frequency of that to get doppler and stretch accordingly.
2013-03-03T03:14:57 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, do like volatile short s1 = o[0]; etc
2013-03-03T03:15:06 < dirty_d> instead of the functions
2013-03-03T03:15:17 < qyx_> nice idea, i will look into that, thx
2013-03-03T03:15:36 < GargantuaSauce> with them all set volatile it still breaks without the functions there at all
2013-03-03T03:16:03 < emeb> stretching by a small percent isn't too hard - I used JOS's paper to do an interpolating resample.
2013-03-03T03:16:08 < qyx_> although it might be a problem if there are some moving parts in the environment itself, they wont be recognised
2013-03-03T03:17:29 < dirty_d> ok
2013-03-03T03:17:52 < GargantuaSauce> it's gotta be something fucked with my build environment...i'll just leave out optimizations until i have time to redo it completely
2013-03-03T03:18:22 < GargantuaSauce> kind of a shame though, it runs an order of magnitude faster with O3 :(
2013-03-03T03:19:43 < dirty_d> wheres the .s and .c init files?
2013-03-03T03:19:59 < emeb> https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/resample/
2013-03-03T03:20:05 < GargantuaSauce> check my monstrosity of a makefile
2013-03-03T03:20:37 < dirty_d> ok
2013-03-03T03:23:35 < qyx_> at 20kHz (40ksps) and 1m/s the doppler is about 59Hz (~120 samples), it makes mls off by about 24 sampes in both directions if mls length is 0.2sec
2013-03-03T03:24:13 < dongs> emeb: its just noise really
2013-03-03T03:24:19 < dongs> not any different from regular failing AM demod
2013-03-03T03:24:29 < dongs> or do you mean do it on 200.230 range?
2013-03-03T03:25:11 < dongs> anyway its just noise one way or another.
2013-03-03T03:27:08 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, whats -mthumb-interwork do?
2013-03-03T03:27:46 < GargantuaSauce> i dunno i just added it an hour ago in the process of trying to fix this shit
2013-03-03T03:28:01 < GargantuaSauce> it's probably entirely vestigial
2013-03-03T03:28:38 < GargantuaSauce> same with the march
2013-03-03T03:28:43 < dongs> 207.6 -> 221.7
2013-03-03T03:29:00 < dongs> I can see the channel clearly defined in rtlsdr too
2013-03-03T03:29:11 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, comment out Init() in main but keep the loop with the math
2013-03-03T03:29:47 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/C9bHmwF.png emeb <
2013-03-03T03:30:36 < GargantuaSauce> #0  0x080085cc in ?? ()
2013-03-03T03:30:36 < GargantuaSauce> #1  0xfffffffe in ?? ()
2013-03-03T03:30:36 < GargantuaSauce> #2  0xfffffffe in ?? ()
2013-03-03T03:30:45 < GargantuaSauce> that is my exceedingly useful bt
2013-03-03T03:30:56 < dirty_d> but do put the fpu enable in main
2013-03-03T03:31:02 < GargantuaSauce> oh yeah lol
2013-03-03T03:31:04 < dirty_d> lol
2013-03-03T03:31:44 < emeb> dongs: looks like output from sdr#
2013-03-03T03:31:49 < dongs> yeah.
2013-03-03T03:31:55 < dongs> i mean, it also sees same shit
2013-03-03T03:31:59 < zippe> GargantuaSauce: looks like a backtrace in interrupt/exception context
2013-03-03T03:32:02 < dongs> (but of course cant display entire spectrum
2013-03-03T03:32:21 < emeb> right - only 2MHz BW on the RTL
2013-03-03T03:32:26 < zippe> Look at the low bits of xpsr
2013-03-03T03:32:51 < GargantuaSauce> looks like i'm just getting a good ol' hardfault now
2013-03-03T03:33:23 < dongs> oh!
2013-03-03T03:33:52 < dongs> http://www.soumu.go.jp/main_content/000128699.pdf
2013-03-03T03:34:23 < dongs> some kinda "multimedia broadcast"
2013-03-03T03:35:17 < GargantuaSauce> apparently execution has jumped into a static array <_<
2013-03-03T03:35:22 < GargantuaSauce> uhmmm
2013-03-03T03:35:57 < dirty_d> lol
2013-03-03T03:36:06 < dirty_d> i just compile this program on mine and it works fine, http://codepad.org/dyc9TPjC
2013-03-03T03:36:23 < dirty_d> maybe your linker script is screwed up or something?
2013-03-03T03:36:28 < GargantuaSauce> i guess so
2013-03-03T03:36:36 < dirty_d> i just used the ones from the stdperiph library
2013-03-03T03:36:40 < dirty_d> and didnt change anything
2013-03-03T03:37:09 < GargantuaSauce> and you're using O3 right
2013-03-03T03:37:23 < dirty_d> i used -O2 but ill try -O3
2013-03-03T03:38:12 < dirty_d> still works
2013-03-03T03:38:17 < dongs> emeb: found, its ISDB-Tmm haha. had no idea that shit was actually in use.
2013-03-03T03:38:19 < dongs> http://www.j-mobilecasting.com/technology/isdb_tmm.html
2013-03-03T03:38:36 < dongs> '6000 segments, 14.2mhz banwidth
2013-03-03T03:40:06 < GargantuaSauce> used an (unedited) stdperiph linker script, no change
2013-03-03T03:41:36 < emeb> dongs: that's kinda what I was seeing to. different BW, different center freq tho
2013-03-03T03:42:05 < dongs> center looks about right < dongs> 207.6 -> 221.7
2013-03-03T03:42:15 < dongs> center by dividing that was like 214.something
2013-03-03T03:42:43 < dirty_d> the same one everyone else uses right?
2013-03-03T03:42:43 < dirty_d> theres only one in there?
2013-03-03T03:42:43 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, maybe use this file instead of the one youre using "./Libraries/CMSIS/Device/ST/STM32F30x/Source/Templates/system_stm32f30x.c"
2013-03-03T03:42:44 < dirty_d> except your F4 one
2013-03-03T03:42:45 < dirty_d> thats what im using
2013-03-03T03:42:45 < dirty_d> might not even be different
2013-03-03T03:45:18 < GargantuaSauce> fucking hell
2013-03-03T03:45:19 < GargantuaSauce> it works
2013-03-03T03:45:22 < dirty_d> lol nice
2013-03-03T03:45:46 < GargantuaSauce> i have spent at least 20 hours banging my head against this over the last couple months
2013-03-03T03:45:55 < dirty_d> whats the actual difference between what those two files do differently?
2013-03-03T03:47:47 < dirty_d> oh, SystemInit does enable the fpu in that one
2013-03-03T03:47:58 < dirty_d> maybe you can only enable it under certain conditions
2013-03-03T03:48:05 < dirty_d> so in your code it wasnt actually getting enabled
2013-03-03T03:48:48 < GargantuaSauce> come to think of it there's a privileged mode that happens before main() gets called right
2013-03-03T03:48:56 < GargantuaSauce> that's probably where you have to write to that register...
2013-03-03T03:49:07 < GargantuaSauce> well no i had SOME fp stuff working
2013-03-03T03:49:21 < dirty_d> hmm, wierd
2013-03-03T03:49:22 < GargantuaSauce> like the geometry stuff in vec/lcd was working fine, i had a spinning cylinder
2013-03-03T03:49:52 < GargantuaSauce> PWR->CR |= PWR_CR_VOS; vs PWR->CR |= PWR_CR_PMODE; is another difference
2013-03-03T03:49:54 < GargantuaSauce> and the clocks
2013-03-03T03:50:20 < GargantuaSauce> anyway dude thank you for putting in this time
2013-03-03T03:50:35 < dirty_d> no problem
2013-03-03T03:50:55 < dirty_d> maybe something was accessing the fpu before you enabled it because of reordering
2013-03-03T03:52:10 < dongs> whats the problem anywaey?
2013-03-03T03:52:16 < dongs> shit dies when you enable FPU?
2013-03-03T03:52:26 < dongs> i just click "use FPU" in keil and shit just works :)
2013-03-03T03:53:37 < dirty_d> is keil free?
2013-03-03T03:54:35 < GargantuaSauce> shit was dying when i converted an int to a float
2013-03-03T03:54:41 < GargantuaSauce> float-only calcs were working fine
2013-03-03T03:55:33 < GargantuaSauce> i was just a victim of my halfassed collection of external resources really, i should have used the right template system.c file -_-
2013-03-03T03:58:34 < dirty_d> omg keil is $10,000?!
2013-03-03T03:58:44 < GargantuaSauce> lol
2013-03-03T03:58:52 < dongs> 5000$
2013-03-03T03:59:28 < dongs> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MDK-ARM/MDK-ARM-ND/1306049
2013-03-03T04:00:08 < dirty_d> you bought it?
2013-03-03T04:00:49 < dirty_d> give "ugly girls" a chance, they need love too!
2013-03-03T04:00:59 < dirty_d> who the hell comes up with these ads
2013-03-03T04:01:00 < dirty_d> lol
2013-03-03T04:01:31  * GargantuaSauce points out the implications of personalized ad engines
2013-03-03T04:01:55 < dongs> yeah its fucking dumb
2013-03-03T04:02:00 < dongs> google serves me ads for shit i already have
2013-03-03T04:02:01 < dongs> and dont need more of
2013-03-03T04:02:22 < gxti> you can always use more dildos
2013-03-03T04:02:25 < dongs> i mean most google ads I get is like mouser/digikey/hobbyking ads
2013-03-03T04:02:26 < dirty_d> lol
2013-03-03T04:02:32 < gxti> take it from steffan oh wait he's not here
2013-03-03T04:03:14 < gxti> back when i got that spam for some chinese indiegogo thing i went to the site of the ISP whose mailserver sent it and ever since then i see their ads everywhere, like yeah i'm gonna buy services from that company
2013-03-03T04:05:37 < GargantuaSauce> i registered one of my domains when i was living in student housing, i left the whois info open and used my real address
2013-03-03T04:05:51 < GargantuaSauce> they're going to be getting irlspam for all eternity at that address
2013-03-03T04:07:13 < gxti> i always use my real info, the worst i get is maybe 2 per year trying to trick me into transferring
2013-03-03T04:08:49 < gxti> one day some equity firm is going to buy out one of the anonymization services and steal all the domains because technically they belong to the anonymization service
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2013-03-03T04:11:43 < dirty_d> i hate gui programming
2013-03-03T04:11:51 < dirty_d> i need to make some kinda interface for tuning the quadcopter
2013-03-03T04:12:04 -!- BJFreeman [~bjfree@170.sub-75-244-176.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2013-03-03T04:12:19 < GargantuaSauce> make a cli like dongs did
2013-03-03T04:12:22 -!- _BJFreeman is now known as BJFreeman
2013-03-03T04:12:37 < gxti> speaking of which i just finished integrating that today, at least for the UART
2013-03-03T04:12:39 < dirty_d> i could but it wouldnt be as nice
2013-03-03T04:12:41 < gxti> dongs: so thanks for that
2013-03-03T04:13:00 < GargantuaSauce> well i mean start with commands with lists of parameters
2013-03-03T04:13:17 < GargantuaSauce> it can be super simple and do everything you probably need
2013-03-03T04:13:22 < dirty_d> yea true
2013-03-03T04:13:40 < dirty_d> yea ill just do that
2013-03-03T04:14:14 < GargantuaSauce> you could also not tune it by hand and instead use a machine learning technique
2013-03-03T04:14:15 < dirty_d> commands in addition to +/- keys for fine tuning things
2013-03-03T04:14:18 < GargantuaSauce> if you wanted to get super fancy
2013-03-03T04:14:57 < GargantuaSauce> because there's what, 18 parameters?
2013-03-03T04:15:14 < GargantuaSauce> P,I,D * 2 sensors * 3 DOF
2013-03-03T04:15:45 < dirty_d> yea about 18 parameters
2013-03-03T04:15:59 < dirty_d> not 18 individual values
2013-03-03T04:16:07 < dirty_d> im calling pitch_pid a parameter
2013-03-03T04:16:15 < dirty_d> not p, i, and d separately
2013-03-03T04:16:42 < dirty_d> http://codepad.org/2MzrjDFt
2013-03-03T04:16:48 < dirty_d> thats all the settings i have so far
2013-03-03T04:17:08 < dirty_d> gyro_zero and accel_zero arent set directly
2013-03-03T04:18:09 < dirty_d> they get set when the ZERO_GYRO/ZERO_ACCEL bits are set in op
2013-03-03T04:18:25 < dirty_d> and it only gets flashed when you set the WRITE_FLASH bit too
2013-03-03T04:18:35 < dirty_d> so you can tune to your hearts content without wearing out the flash
2013-03-03T04:18:42 < dirty_d> and then you jsut flash it when youre happy with it
2013-03-03T04:18:47 < GargantuaSauce> cool
2013-03-03T04:19:11 < dirty_d> i have "telemetry" too with all the sensor data and filtered angles and such
2013-03-03T04:19:23 < dirty_d> it would be useful to have like an opengl program show that data in real time
2013-03-03T04:19:28 < dirty_d> right now i just use gnuplot
2013-03-03T04:20:08 < GargantuaSauce> well feel free to steal any of my shitty opengl 4.x wrapper code in that repo, it is eventually going to be used for exactly that
2013-03-03T04:20:19 < qyx_> emeb: if i want to shift band of that mls from 0-20kHz to 20-40kHz, should i just use sequence values to phase-modulate 40kHz carrier? (0 - no shift, 1 - 180g shift)
2013-03-03T04:20:49 < GargantuaSauce> should work in 3.2 with some very minor tweaks to the gls
2013-03-03T04:20:50 < GargantuaSauce> l
2013-03-03T04:23:15 < dirty_d> i havent done any opengl in a long time
2013-03-03T04:23:34 < GargantuaSauce> i'd be more than happy to collaborate
2013-03-03T04:23:57 < GargantuaSauce> we are doing basically the same thing, though i am generalizing a little
2013-03-03T04:25:36 < dirty_d> cool
2013-03-03T04:25:58 < dirty_d> yea im sure some kinda generic opengl waveform viewer would work
2013-03-03T04:26:14 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip72-223-89-10.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2013-03-03T04:26:38 -!- BJFreeman [~bjfree@170.sub-75-244-176.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: had a good time]
2013-03-03T04:27:20 < dirty_d> i still have a simple opengl oscilliscope i made somewhere
2013-03-03T04:27:57 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip72-223-89-10.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-03T04:28:00 < zippe> Yet again, openocd is super-failtastic
2013-03-03T04:28:54 < zippe> Looks like my stm3220f-eval is dead
2013-03-03T04:29:41 < dirty_d> it killed it?
2013-03-03T04:30:40 < zippe> Unrelated, I think
2013-03-03T04:31:04 < zippe> oocd's build system is a pile of crap
2013-03-03T04:33:46 < dirty_d> i didnt even know it had one
2013-03-03T04:35:11 < dirty_d> i wonder if python would be fast enough for this realtime waveform viewer
2013-03-03T04:37:03 < GargantuaSauce> the limiting factor would be the async serial interface
2013-03-03T04:37:06 < GargantuaSauce> for sure
2013-03-03T04:37:37 < dirty_d> im using usb
2013-03-03T04:38:09 < GargantuaSauce> usb pretending to be a serial port?
2013-03-03T04:38:13 < GargantuaSauce> or what
2013-03-03T04:38:40 < dirty_d> no i just made my own type thing
2013-03-03T04:38:42 < dirty_d> 3 endpoints
2013-03-03T04:38:46 < dirty_d> an used libusb
2013-03-03T04:38:55 < dirty_d> its actually easier i think
2013-03-03T04:39:10 < dirty_d> with python its like 3 lines of code to read and write to it
2013-03-03T04:39:18 < dirty_d> with C not much more
2013-03-03T04:39:23 < GargantuaSauce> well you might want to consider serial
2013-03-03T04:39:35 < GargantuaSauce> that way you can stick a bluetooth interface on there and get telemetry while it flies
2013-03-03T04:40:33 < GargantuaSauce> anyway you would almost certainly get away with using python to do what you want to do
2013-03-03T04:40:34 < dirty_d> i wouldnt be able to do that with usb though
2013-03-03T04:40:37 < dirty_d> f3 is device only
2013-03-03T04:40:53 < dirty_d> i could use a real serial to bluetooth though
2013-03-03T04:40:55 < GargantuaSauce> no you'd need a bluetooth module to plug into a uart
2013-03-03T04:40:58 < dirty_d> yea
2013-03-03T04:41:30 < qyx_> make it sing telemetry data using dtmf and speaker!
2013-03-03T04:41:41 < dirty_d> i think im just gonna concentrate on gettign it flying first
2013-03-03T04:42:09 < dirty_d> i have my screwed up f3disco on it now that i tune by recompiling the program and flashing it
2013-03-03T04:42:15 < dirty_d> usb doesnt work
2013-03-03T04:42:35 < dirty_d> once i do that ill make a pcb taht the disco and servo wires plug into
2013-03-03T04:42:51 < GargantuaSauce> what are the servos for
2013-03-03T04:42:54 < dirty_d> and just neaten it up
2013-03-03T04:43:02 < dirty_d> no servos i mean the ESC wires
2013-03-03T04:43:09 < GargantuaSauce> ah
2013-03-03T04:43:10 < dirty_d> and wires from the reciever
2013-03-03T04:43:16 < dirty_d> its a freakin mess
2013-03-03T04:43:25 < GargantuaSauce> mine shall be too
2013-03-03T04:43:29 < GargantuaSauce> i am making a custom controller as well
2013-03-03T04:43:46 < GargantuaSauce> and by 'custom' i mean 'a heap of crap'
2013-03-03T04:43:50 < dirty_d> http://i.imgur.com/cggBVwb.jpg
2013-03-03T04:44:11 < GargantuaSauce> is that four batteries?!
2013-03-03T04:44:14 < dirty_d> im not even gonna bother making my own controller, i couldnt make one as cheap as i can buy a f3disco
2013-03-03T04:44:17 < dirty_d> yea, lol
2013-03-03T04:44:23 < dirty_d> four 5Ah batteries
2013-03-03T04:44:41 < GargantuaSauce> i think you might be a little into the diminishing returns of flight time area with that...
2013-03-03T04:44:53 < GargantuaSauce> how much does that monstrosity weigh
2013-03-03T04:45:15 < GargantuaSauce> also by controller i meant the rc controller
2013-03-03T04:45:20 < dirty_d> about 15 pounds
2013-03-03T04:45:23 < GargantuaSauce> lol
2013-03-03T04:45:26 < dirty_d> haha
2013-03-03T04:45:41 < dirty_d> it generates like 30 pounds of lift though
2013-03-03T04:45:52 < GargantuaSauce> for how long
2013-03-03T04:46:11 < dirty_d> 30 pounds,  i think like 7 minutes
2013-03-03T04:46:16 < dirty_d> just hovering should be 15 minutes
2013-03-03T04:46:37 < dirty_d> im not sure i used a R/C plane calculator
2013-03-03T04:46:42 < dirty_d> i havent actually flied it yet
2013-03-03T04:46:57 < dirty_d> i could make it a lot lighter
2013-03-03T04:47:06 < dirty_d> the frame is 10x stronger than it needs to be
2013-03-03T04:47:44 < dirty_d> not sure how much it weighs alone, but its a significant amount
2013-03-03T04:47:48 < dirty_d> maybe like 5 pounds
2013-03-03T04:48:56 < dirty_d> i have the wrong props on there too
2013-03-03T04:49:12 < dirty_d> the motors are rated at 1.6kW, but with those props it can only make 800W
2013-03-03T05:03:53 < dirty_d> oh damnit, why am i getting this __cxa_pure_virtual() shit now
2013-03-03T05:04:35  * GargantuaSauce abhors the idea of having the c++ conversation again
2013-03-03T05:05:14 -!- CheBuzz [~CheBuzz@76.164.192.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2013-03-03T05:05:21 < dirty_d> i still have bl  __libc_init_array before main
2013-03-03T05:05:34 < dirty_d> havent changed a damn thing that i can think of
2013-03-03T05:06:22 < GargantuaSauce> you might just need to provide your own implemenation
2013-03-03T05:07:42 < dirty_d> the one in libc or whatever isnt good enough?
2013-03-03T05:08:25 < GargantuaSauce> lemme see your linker line
2013-03-03T05:09:35 < dirty_d> http://codepad.org/M6diMuMm
2013-03-03T05:10:28 < dirty_d> im not suing a makefile or anything, just that
2013-03-03T05:10:40 < GargantuaSauce> oh compiling and linking in one line....mmm
2013-03-03T05:10:51 < dirty_d> been working fine
2013-03-03T05:11:42 < GargantuaSauce> you might just need an -lc++ at the end, i cant remember the exact circumstances under which it will automagically include certain libraries with that sort of build invocation
2013-03-03T05:14:23 < dirty_d> i dunno
2013-03-03T05:14:35 < dirty_d> the program runs fine till i plug in the usb cable
2013-03-03T05:14:38 < dirty_d> use user usb
2013-03-03T05:14:41 < dirty_d> the*
2013-03-03T05:15:17 < GargantuaSauce> oh so its not a linker error, youre actually trying to call a pure virtual function...
2013-03-03T05:15:29 < GargantuaSauce> (or a virtual function from a constructor/dtor)
2013-03-03T05:15:52 < GargantuaSauce> that was a silly assumption in retrospect
2013-03-03T05:15:58 < dirty_d> i dunno how i could possibly be doing that
2013-03-03T05:18:16 < dirty_d> how do you even call a pure virtual function?
2013-03-03T05:18:50 < dirty_d> the only way is through a pointer right?
2013-03-03T05:19:00 < GargantuaSauce> i believe so
2013-03-03T05:19:06 < dirty_d> yea im not using any
2013-03-03T05:19:43 < dirty_d> i dont have to do anything with __libc_preinit_array do i?
2013-03-03T05:19:46 < dirty_d> or whatever its called
2013-03-03T05:20:13 < GargantuaSauce> probably not if it's not occurring until later
2013-03-03T05:20:35 < zippe> dirty_d: if you have any class that has an unimplemented virtual function
2013-03-03T05:20:58 < zippe> dirty_d: you need __cxa_pure_virtual because that's what gets dropped into the vtable slot
2013-03-03T05:21:07 < zippe> i.e. any class where you have virtual void foo() = 0;
2013-03-03T05:22:41 < zippe> Even if you never instantiate the class, the vtable has to be populated.
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2013-03-03T05:25:17 < dirty_d> i suck
2013-03-03T05:25:27 < dirty_d> i think i do have an unimplemented virtual function
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2013-03-03T05:25:34 < GargantuaSauce> hehe
2013-03-03T05:28:55 < dirty_d> actually i dont
2013-03-03T05:29:33 < GargantuaSauce> does the stacktrace not tell you what you need to know?
2013-03-03T05:29:51 < dirty_d> it doesnt tell me shit
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2013-03-03T05:30:55 < dirty_d> Backtrace stopped: previous frame identical to this frame (corrupt stack?)
2013-03-03T05:30:57 < dirty_d> i assume thats bad?
2013-03-03T05:31:45 < GargantuaSauce> it could be, i dunno how those traps are invoked though
2013-03-03T05:35:55 < gxti> dirty_d: is it a hard fault, and if so, do you have a handler for it?
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2013-03-03T05:38:05 < dirty_d> gxti, im using the startup*.s from the stdperiph lib
2013-03-03T05:38:44 < dirty_d> its aliased to DefaultHandler
2013-03-03T05:39:01 < dirty_d> im getting the pure_virtual handler
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2013-03-03T05:39:49 < dirty_d> is there a "step forever" command since backtrace isnt working?
2013-03-03T05:39:54 < dirty_d> my fingers are tired
2013-03-03T05:43:21 < dirty_d> oh i cna hold enter, lol
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2013-03-03T05:45:11 < gxti> are soft floats on F1 IEEE 754?
2013-03-03T05:45:28 < zippe> dirty_d: when you say "isn't working", what do you mean?
2013-03-03T05:45:53 < gxti> i've got a big-endian float in that format from a gps receiver, trying to figure out how to get it in here. have a working implementation for fixed point but hopefully it's simpler than that.
2013-03-03T05:46:16 < zippe> gxti: just swap the bytes around
2013-03-03T05:46:24 < zippe> gxti: gcc's normal format is ieee-compliant
2013-03-03T05:46:31 < gxti> yay
2013-03-03T05:47:10 < dirty_d> of course it only crashes when its running free and not when i step through line by line
2013-03-03T05:47:45 < dirty_d> zippe, i have no idea whats going on i get __cxa_pure_virtual () at src/startup_stm32f30x.s:120 when i plug in my usb cable
2013-03-03T05:47:59 < dirty_d> it worked fine earlier today adn i cant think of anything that ive changes
2013-03-03T05:48:00 < dirty_d> changed
2013-03-03T05:48:08 < zippe> dirty_d: what do you mean "I get __cxa…" ?
2013-03-03T05:48:34 < zippe> And what do you mean when you say "backtrace isn't working"?
2013-03-03T05:49:20 < dirty_d> i mean the __cxa_pure_virtual handler gets called which is aliased to Default_Handler
2013-03-03T05:49:37 < dirty_d> backtrace doesnt actually give me any useful information, one sec
2013-03-03T05:50:12 < dirty_d> http://codepad.org/oKOyU1Ae
2013-03-03T05:50:21 < zippe> Well, if the two are aliased then I think you are probably being fooled by gdb just picking the symbol name that sorts first
2013-03-03T05:50:43 < zippe> Yeah, 0xffffffe8 means you've taken an exception. What's in xpsr?
2013-03-03T05:50:56 < zippe> I will be very surprised if the low byte isn't 0x03
2013-03-03T05:51:11 < dirty_d> i dont even know what xpsr is, how do i check?
2013-03-03T05:51:25 < GargantuaSauce> p $xpsr
2013-03-03T05:51:44 < dirty_d> $6 = 0
2013-03-03T05:52:19 < zippe> Not possible
2013-03-03T05:52:25 < zippe> What does 'info regs' give you?
2013-03-03T05:53:08 < dirty_d> Undefined info command: "regs".  Try "help info".
2013-03-03T05:53:14 < zippe> 'i r'
2013-03-03T05:53:18 < zippe> Sorry, 'info registers'
2013-03-03T05:53:21 < zippe> Either will work
2013-03-03T05:53:39 < dirty_d> http://codepad.org/IEhqyREY
2013-03-03T05:54:04 < dirty_d> __cxa_pure_virtual does happen to be hte first weak alias
2013-03-03T05:55:33 < zippe> Here: http://codepad.org/O8N6QCjt
2013-03-03T05:55:35 < dirty_d> i moved NMI_Handler to the beginning, but __cxa_pure_virtual still gets called
2013-03-03T05:55:36 < zippe> Feed that to gdb
2013-03-03T05:55:47 < zippe> It is not possible for xpsr to be zero; bit 24 is hardwired to 1.
2013-03-03T05:56:00 < zippe> dirty_d: symbols are sorted in ascii order, renaming the aliases won't help
2013-03-03T05:56:25 < zippe> Once you've sourced it in gdb, try 'vecstate'
2013-03-03T05:57:24 < dirty_d> http://codepad.org/jydlGmoP
2013-03-03T05:57:59 < zippe> Ah, you don't have stdint in your program
2013-03-03T05:58:07 < zippe> Replace the uint32_t with "unsigned"
2013-03-03T05:58:37 < dirty_d> wait what?
2013-03-03T05:58:42 < zippe> Hmm, no, sorry
2013-03-03T05:58:50 < zippe> Ignore that
2013-03-03T05:58:52 < dirty_d> ok
2013-03-03T05:59:13 < zippe> The "invalid cast" error is odd
2013-03-03T05:59:19 < dirty_d> yea
2013-03-03T05:59:29 < zippe> But regardless, an imprecise bus fault means a store to a bad address
2013-03-03T05:59:39 < dirty_d> isnt casting a language concept not anything a processor would know about?
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2013-03-03T06:00:06 < zippe> This is gdb
2013-03-03T06:00:22 < zippe> It knows entirely too much about the language you are using
2013-03-03T06:00:26 < dirty_d> ok
2013-03-03T06:00:42 < dirty_d> so theres no way to see where in the code this actualy happens?
2013-03-03T06:00:44 < zippe> So, the next step is to decode the exception frame
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2013-03-03T06:01:03 < dirty_d> ok
2013-03-03T06:01:04 < zippe> You want the 32 bytes or so up from 0x20009df0
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2013-03-03T06:01:37 < zippe> The xpsr value is still bugging me. What JTAG probe are you using?
2013-03-03T06:01:54 < dirty_d> im just using an stm32f3discovery with openocd
2013-03-03T06:02:12 < zippe> Ugh, ok. So who knows what register it really is
2013-03-03T06:02:26 < zippe> Can you dump the registers on the openocd console side?
2013-03-03T06:02:34 < dirty_d> yea
2013-03-03T06:03:04 < zippe> ipsr==0 implies thread mode, but I can't see how you're in thread mode with an LR with the top four bits set.
2013-03-03T06:03:05 < dirty_d> i gotta look it up, i cant remember how
2013-03-03T06:03:34 < zippe> 'reg'
2013-03-03T06:03:53 < dirty_d> here we go
2013-03-03T06:04:05 < dirty_d> http://codepad.org/kyQHyj6E
2013-03-03T06:04:20 < dirty_d> low byte of xpsr is 0x03 like you said
2013-03-03T06:04:23 < dirty_d> what does that mean?
2013-03-03T06:04:30 < zippe> Hardfault
2013-03-03T06:04:37 < zippe> (exception #3)
2013-03-03T06:04:52 < dirty_d> what causes a hardfault exception?
2013-03-03T06:05:14 < zippe> I already told you
2013-03-03T06:05:27 < dirty_d> the bad memory address?
2013-03-03T06:05:30 < zippe> the vecstate macro decoded the fault state
2013-03-03T06:06:01 < zippe> it tells us you took an imprecise bus fault, and since you haven't enabled separate fault handling, that was promoted to a hardfault
2013-03-03T06:06:15 < dirty_d> ok
2013-03-03T06:06:28 < zippe> The macro should have then decoded the fault state
2013-03-03T06:06:32 < zippe> Instead we got this weird error
2013-03-03T06:06:39 < zippe> I'm just about to try to work out what I broke there
2013-03-03T06:07:13 < dirty_d> oh you wrote that?
2013-03-03T06:08:34 < zippe> yes
2013-03-03T06:08:39 < zippe> Hmm, I'm getting it here too
2013-03-03T06:13:15 < zippe> set $frame_ptr = (unsigned *)$msp
2013-03-03T06:13:23 < zippe> Huh. What's wrong with that, I wonder?
2013-03-03T06:13:47 < zippe> Ah, debugger doesn't know about msp
2013-03-03T06:16:18 < zippe> here, try http://codepad.org/5tJwUjik
2013-03-03T06:16:22 < dirty_d> ok
2013-03-03T06:16:37 < zippe> You should get something like:
2013-03-03T06:16:38 < zippe> (gdb) vecstate
2013-03-03T06:16:38 < zippe> Handling vector 15
2013-03-03T06:16:38 < zippe> exception frame is on MSP
2013-03-03T06:16:38 < zippe>   r0: 00000000  r1: 00000001  r2: 00000001  r3: 00000000
2013-03-03T06:16:38 < zippe>   r4: 08004d5d  r5: 0800553d  r6: 0801a411  r7: 08013f79
2013-03-03T06:16:38 < zippe>   r8: 20005578  r9: 200054f8 r10: 0000ffff r11: 2000024c
2013-03-03T06:16:38 < zippe>  r12: 0000ffff  lr: 0800384b  pc: 0800585e PSR: 61000200
2013-03-03T06:16:39 < zippe> #0  0x0800585e in up_idle ()
2013-03-03T06:16:39 < zippe> #1  0x0800384a in os_start ()
2013-03-03T06:16:40 < zippe> #2  0x00000000 in ?? ()
2013-03-03T06:16:53 < zippe> That's the NuttX systick interrupt from the idle thread
2013-03-03T06:17:11 < GargantuaSauce> oooh that is gonna be useful
2013-03-03T06:17:26 < zippe> You should be able to use 'frame 0' after that and see local variables for the interrupted routine
2013-03-03T06:17:36 < zippe> Ah, wait, no
2013-03-03T06:17:45 < zippe> I added code to restore context back to the exception handler
2013-03-03T06:17:46 < zippe> sorry
2013-03-03T06:17:51 < dirty_d> http://codepad.org/Eg2r7vyM
2013-03-03T06:17:56 < dirty_d> thats definitely better
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2013-03-03T06:18:21 < dirty_d> so its happening in F3USB::write ?
2013-03-03T06:18:45 < zippe> yeah; if you look at the instruction at 08000c92 you might learn more
2013-03-03T06:19:08 < zippe> Or possibly a few instructions before
2013-03-03T06:19:17 < dirty_d> ok
2013-03-03T06:19:28 < zippe> Since it's an imprecise fault, the instruction responsible for the write will have retired already
2013-03-03T06:19:37 < zippe> Or you can just scan through the code
2013-03-03T06:19:54 < dirty_d> yea, its odd i havent touched that function in weeks
2013-03-03T06:20:00 < dirty_d> thanks though, you saved me a lot of time
2013-03-03T06:20:16 < zippe> No worries
2013-03-03T06:20:27 < zippe> huh, I'm not printing the stack pointer before the exception
2013-03-03T06:20:29 < zippe> that's a bit slack
2013-03-03T06:25:34 < dirty_d>  8000c92:	ea41 2106 	orr.w	r1, r1, r6, lsl #8
2013-03-03T06:25:42 < dirty_d> so thats the instuction causing it?
2013-03-03T06:27:39 < dirty_d> looks like thats *sram |= (*buf++) << 8;
2013-03-03T06:31:44 < dirty_d> ill worry about it tomorrow, thanks again
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2013-03-03T06:40:12 < zippe> Either that one, or one or two instructions prior
2013-03-03T06:40:42 < zippe> In fact, certainly something beforehand, since that instruction doesn't touch memory
2013-03-03T06:48:00 < zippe> Wow, the stlink flash routine is terrible
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2013-03-03T07:26:53 < gxti> haha, i was just saying i rarely get spam for my domains and i just got one
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2013-03-03T07:29:48  * emeb_mac tries out diptrace...
2013-03-03T07:29:51 < gxti> actually i guess this is proper spam, not just shady business. sent from a hotmail address by way of "saundrarealtor.com"
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2013-03-03T07:30:07 < gxti> they couldn't even be bothered to get my real name from the registration
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2013-03-03T07:30:34 < emeb_mac> lazy spammer is lazy
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2013-03-03T07:41:29 < dongs> nice internet
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2013-03-03T07:44:33 < emeb_mac> they come and go...
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2013-03-03T12:32:55 < Robint91> hi all
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2013-03-03T12:39:46 < Tectu> epic TL;DR http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/01/amelia-hill-is-a-dirty-liar/#comment-391372
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2013-03-03T12:46:03 < elektrinis> hi
2013-03-03T12:46:21 < elektrinis> is there an ST MCU with 802.11 compatibility?
2013-03-03T12:47:49 < piglit> what address do i need to put in my debugger if i want to watch what pins are high or low I use a STM32F100
2013-03-03T12:47:57 < piglit> ?
2013-03-03T12:50:59 < qyx_> see the gpio register adresses in F1 series reference manual
2013-03-03T12:52:52 < qyx_> http://www.st.com/web/en/resource/technical/document/reference_manual/CD00246267.pdf
2013-03-03T12:53:11 < qyx_> page 127
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2013-03-03T13:08:58 < dongs> piglit: wouldnt it be like GPIOx->ODR?
2013-03-03T13:09:00 < dongs> or something.
2013-03-03T13:13:50 < Almorgoth> hi
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2013-03-03T13:43:56 < jpa-> piglit: in gdb for example you can just do   "print GPIOA->ODR" or IDR if you want to know input pins
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2013-03-03T15:49:55 < Laurenceb_> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
2013-03-03T15:50:09 < Laurenceb_> appropriate landing town name is appropriate
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2013-03-03T15:55:24 < Laurenceb_> somewhere between Hoe Copse and Cocking
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2013-03-03T17:01:02 < emeb_mac> still coming & going.
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2013-03-03T17:30:52 <+Steffanx> Silenceeee
2013-03-03T17:31:30 < Erlkoenig> I LIKE IT LOOOUDDD
2013-03-03T17:37:03 < emeb_mac> everyone must be in church.
2013-03-03T17:37:45 < Erlkoenig> "Dear God, please let the application not cause a hardfault"
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2013-03-03T18:42:51 < dirty_d> well thats just wierd as hell
2013-03-03T18:42:58 < dirty_d> i found the problem with my usb crash
2013-03-03T18:43:19 < dirty_d> i had 0x10 for my OUT ep 0
2013-03-03T18:43:52 < dirty_d> which should have made my usb driver never work at all
2013-03-03T18:44:50 < dirty_d> the code checks the msb to see if its an out ep to initialize the TX packet buffer
2013-03-03T18:45:04 < dirty_d> which never happens since its not set when its 0x10
2013-03-03T18:45:18 < dirty_d> so i dunno how hte hell my codes been working for the past few weeks, lol
2013-03-03T18:54:16 < zyp_> there is a difference between 0x10 and 0x80 you know
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2013-03-03T18:54:40 < emeb_mac> :)
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2013-03-03T18:59:42 < dirty_d> zyp, no shit, lol
2013-03-03T19:00:07 < dirty_d> im saying i dont know how it possibly could have worked when i had the OUT ep 0 set to 0x10
2013-03-03T19:00:21 < zyp> where?
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2013-03-03T19:01:04 < dirty_d> i had initEndpoint(0x00, 64, EndpointDescriptor::CONTROL); initEndpoint(0x10, 64, EndpointDescriptor::CONTROL); in my reset handler
2013-03-03T19:01:15 < dirty_d> instead of initEndpoint(0x00, 64, EndpointDescriptor::CONTROL); initEndpoint(0x80, 64, EndpointDescriptor::CONTROL);
2013-03-03T19:01:26 < zyp> sure, but what's the variable used for?
2013-03-03T19:01:42 < dirty_d> the code in that function looks at the high bit in the ep to see if its an IN or OUT ep
2013-03-03T19:01:57 < dirty_d> and sets ADDR_TX or ADDR_RX accordingly
2013-03-03T19:02:10 < dirty_d> so for ep 0 IN ADDR_TX wasnt even being set
2013-03-03T19:02:26 < dirty_d> but somehow everything has been working for the past few weeks until yesterday
2013-03-03T19:03:02 < dirty_d> maybe somehow i copied an old version of that file over the new one or something
2013-03-03T19:03:04 < dirty_d> but i dont think so
2013-03-03T19:03:31 < zyp> if you used git or something you'd be able to look back through the history :p
2013-03-03T19:03:47 < dirty_d> yea i should start using my github account for this
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2013-03-03T19:04:08 < zyp> you don't even need to push it somewhere though
2013-03-03T19:04:20 < zyp> you could just store the repo locally :p
2013-03-03T19:04:39 < dirty_d> yea, i work on different computers though so id definitely use github
2013-03-03T19:04:50 < zyp> then do so ;)
2013-03-03T19:04:54 < dirty_d> im gonna do that now so i dont end up doing this again
2013-03-03T19:05:54 < zyp> oh, and bugs invoking undefined behavior is always fun
2013-03-03T19:06:17 < zyp> I had some spurious crashes/corruption with my stack on F4
2013-03-03T19:06:51 < zyp> but they only occured in certain cases
2013-03-03T19:07:51 < zyp> I found that it happened quite often with mass storage reads
2013-03-03T19:09:26 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/2zCGY.png <- like this; a bunch of reads, then device stops responding because it hardfaulted
2013-03-03T19:11:13 < zyp> turned out I had switched size and offset of tx fifos so they were partially overlapping the rx fifo, so it could happen that if a packet was waiting in the rxfifo, it would be overwritten by the txfifo
2013-03-03T19:23:30 < dirty_d> ahh
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2013-03-03T20:06:19 < dirty_d> there we go https://github.com/dirty-d/stm32f3_discovery_quadcopter
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2013-03-03T20:07:57 < Erlkoenig> l like your "compile" script and lack of makefiles etc.
2013-03-03T20:09:01 <+Steffanx> I wonder why he doesnt use scons :P
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2013-03-03T20:14:44 < dirty_d> Erlkoenig, heh i tend to be lazy and do that a lot
2013-03-03T20:15:55 <+Steffanx> Most programmers are lazy dirty_d :)
2013-03-03T20:17:14 < dirty_d> i dont even remember how to write a makefile anymore
2013-03-03T20:19:25 <+Steffanx> You dont want to remember :)
2013-03-03T20:19:39 < dirty_d> i dont, lol
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2013-03-03T20:34:57 < dirty_d> i wonder how strong these are http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALUMINUM-OIL-SHOCK-DAMPER-PY-HPI-TROPHY-3-5-BUGGY-FLUX-ALLOY-FRONT-REAR-/180741247945?pt=US_Radio_Control_Control_Line&hash=item2a150493c9
2013-03-03T20:35:11 < dirty_d> i could make some cool landing gear with my cnc machine
2013-03-03T20:35:22 < dirty_d> cut power from 5 feet to land, lol
2013-03-03T20:40:07 <+Steffanx> What about a body like those commercial quadcopters?
2013-03-03T20:40:10 <+Steffanx> :)
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2013-03-03T20:46:08 < Laurenceb_> hehe wut
2013-03-03T20:46:10 < Laurenceb_> https://github.com/dirty-d/stm32f3_discovery_quadcopter/blob/master/compile
2013-03-03T20:46:12 < Laurenceb_> i lolled
2013-03-03T20:47:13 < dirty_d> Steffanx, which one?
2013-03-03T20:47:19 < dirty_d> lol
2013-03-03T20:47:49 < dirty_d> hey it works
2013-03-03T20:47:54 < Laurenceb_> eww split your code up
2013-03-03T20:47:57 <+Steffanx> dont remember the name of it
2013-03-03T20:48:02 < dirty_d> Laurenceb, in main?
2013-03-03T20:48:18 < dirty_d> Steffanx, dont they all look alike pretty much?
2013-03-03T20:48:31 <+Steffanx> No, this is one of the commercial one with a body around the rotors etc.
2013-03-03T20:48:56 < dirty_d> the styrofoam ones?
2013-03-03T20:48:59 < BrainDamage> I want a copter with steel blades, razor sharp
2013-03-03T20:49:02 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-03T20:49:24 <+Steffanx> i think so dirty_d
2013-03-03T20:50:07 < dirty_d> BrainDamage, the plastic ones i have are sharp and hard
2013-03-03T20:50:11 < dirty_d> scary
2013-03-03T20:50:29 < dirty_d> it would be nice to be able to enclose them
2013-03-03T20:50:49 < BrainDamage> steel, carbon steel perferably
2013-03-03T20:50:53 < gxti> anyone used stm32 to make a smps? trying to decide if that's a bad idea or not
2013-03-03T20:51:03 < BrainDamage> I did it
2013-03-03T20:51:04 < Laurenceb_> overkill surely?
2013-03-03T20:51:04 < gxti> just a buck regulator but for a bench supply type application
2013-03-03T20:51:09 < dirty_d> i was thinking overkill
2013-03-03T20:51:16 < BrainDamage> it was kinda overkill
2013-03-03T20:51:16 < Laurenceb_> ill just leave this here
2013-03-03T20:51:18 < Laurenceb_> http://www.bariumblues.com/
2013-03-03T20:51:26 < BrainDamage> but worked
2013-03-03T20:51:36 < gxti> it doesn't seem like overkill to me, if i want programmable outputs
2013-03-03T20:51:37 < BrainDamage> it was an hv, medium power supply
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2013-03-03T20:52:16 < BrainDamage> controlling the 4 sides of an H bridge independently, monitoring in & out current & voltage
2013-03-03T20:52:39 < gxti> what about current limiting? can it react quickly enough?
2013-03-03T20:53:15 < dirty_d> gxti, you could do cycle by cycle current limiting with the analog comparators
2013-03-03T20:53:19 < BrainDamage> the bridge was running on average at 50kHz, but I was limited by the magnetics
2013-03-03T20:53:23 < BrainDamage> not by the stm
2013-03-03T20:53:38 < BrainDamage> the code to manage a smps is usually quite small
2013-03-03T20:54:13 < BrainDamage> some integrations, derivations to do loop compensation
2013-03-03T20:54:18 < dirty_d> the comparators on f3 are tied to the pwm timers for that
2013-03-03T20:54:37 < BrainDamage> you want to do loop compensation in the mcu mostly
2013-03-03T20:54:40 < gxti> dirty_d: handy. so i guess i'd need to use the DAC to program that?
2013-03-03T20:54:45 < dirty_d> gxti, yup
2013-03-03T20:55:25 < gxti> is the analog comparator a f3 thing?
2013-03-03T20:55:32 < dirty_d> yea
2013-03-03T20:55:39 < BrainDamage> never tried a f3
2013-03-03T20:55:39 < dirty_d> it might be on others not sure
2013-03-03T20:55:54 < gxti> i kind of want ethernet but it doesn't necessarily have to be hard mac
2013-03-03T20:55:55 < BrainDamage> also, I prefer proportional to on/off :p
2013-03-03T20:56:05 < dirty_d> there are 2 on mine, im not sure how many on the other ones
2013-03-03T20:57:17 < gxti> would be a fun excuse to familiarize myself with f3 anyway
2013-03-03T20:58:44 < dirty_d> oh shit
2013-03-03T20:58:54 < dirty_d> there acrre actually 7 analog comarators on my f3
2013-03-03T20:59:18 < dirty_d> the 303
2013-03-03T20:59:24 < zippe> Doing a PSU in software is a bad idea.
2013-03-03T20:59:32 < zippe> Doing a PSU supervisor in software isn't so bad.
2013-03-03T21:00:05 < zippe> Someone like Linear ought to have a decent voltage-controlled external-fet SMPS controller.
2013-03-03T21:00:57 < zippe> Though even VC is risky; you may want to use an intermediate I2C-controlled component for the voltage/current setpoints.
2013-03-03T21:01:03 < dirty_d> i wonder if the f3 is fast enough to make a field oriented motor controller
2013-03-03T21:01:06 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2013-03-03T21:01:14 < dirty_d> for high speed brushless motors
2013-03-03T21:01:57 < gxti> zippe: i'm sure such things exist but i haven't run into them yet
2013-03-03T21:04:19 < Laurenceb_> http://s1.b3ta.com/host/creative/53303/1362311889/EnamoradaHeroica.jpg
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2013-03-03T21:05:39 < dirty_d> im gonna go fly and maybe crash my quadcopter
2013-03-03T21:05:45 < dirty_d> ill be sure to take a video
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2013-03-03T21:08:36 < gxti> /ignore -pattern *http://* Laurenceb_
2013-03-03T21:08:49 < gxti> i feel smarter already.
2013-03-03T21:20:42 < dirty_d> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1671680066/incredible-hlq-heavy-lift-quadcopter
2013-03-03T21:20:50 < dirty_d> i wonder how that will end up
2013-03-03T21:21:06 < dirty_d> they got more money than they needd
2013-03-03T21:21:20 < jpa-> than they thought they need :)
2013-03-03T21:22:05 < dirty_d> i dont understand why they dont just make a helicopter?
2013-03-03T21:22:21 < dirty_d> isnt one big set of rotors simpler and more efficient than 4?
2013-03-03T21:22:59 < BrainDamage> quadcopters are actually more efficient than helicopters wrt lift
2013-03-03T21:23:10 < BrainDamage> because all rotors point in the vertical direction :p
2013-03-03T21:23:16 < jpa-> also mechanically simpler
2013-03-03T21:23:31 < dirty_d> jpa-, theyre using four variable pitch helicopter rotors
2013-03-03T21:23:35 < dirty_d> not propellers
2013-03-03T21:23:55 < dirty_d> BrainDamage, i dont think theyre more efficient
2013-03-03T21:24:07 < dirty_d> a propeller isnt designed for static thrust
2013-03-03T21:24:28 < BrainDamage> it's not opinable, you don't have to actively spend power to counter the angular momentum
2013-03-03T21:24:40 < dirty_d> irs more efficient to generate lift by moving a large mass of air at low velocity than a small mass at high velocity like a propeller does
2013-03-03T21:24:54 < BrainDamage> an helicpter with counter rotating blades, can be as good as a quadcopter
2013-03-03T21:25:05 < jpa-> four propellers cover a larger area than one propeller :)
2013-03-03T21:25:09 < gxti> was about to say, you see dual helis but not quad
2013-03-03T21:25:45 < BrainDamage> but still needs the variable pitch system, and for most hobby systems it's not that ideal
2013-03-03T21:26:16 < BrainDamage> btw, the quadcopter is way more inherently unstable than heli
2013-03-03T21:26:55 < jpa-> just because helicopter has mechanical stabilization stuff
2013-03-03T21:27:21 < jpa-> probably one could make something similar for quadcopter also if it wasn't more efficient to do it electronically
2013-03-03T21:27:45 < BrainDamage> sure, but mechanical could be done in the past too
2013-03-03T21:28:15 < BrainDamage> while electronics got cheap enough & "reliable" ( I know it's not very correct ) enough only recently
2013-03-03T21:28:40 < BrainDamage> generally the flight industry prefers safety, partially due to image of being usafe, partially because shitload of regulations
2013-03-03T21:28:53 < BrainDamage> so something tested and working > new
2013-03-03T21:29:01 < gxti> it seems probable that quads have much higher drag in forward flight compared to a dual or single copter
2013-03-03T21:29:14 < jpa-> but 50 pounds isn't in the passenger range anyway
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2013-03-03T21:33:43 < dirty_d> tiem to go crash this thing
2013-03-03T21:35:06 < BrainDamage> I wish tilt rotors weren't such a control pain
2013-03-03T21:35:12 < BrainDamage> otherwise they are really cool
2013-03-03T21:35:26 < BrainDamage> good aerodynamics for long term flights
2013-03-03T21:35:35 < BrainDamage> and possibility of vertical takeoff/landing
2013-03-03T21:35:37 < gxti> time to take a look at excitable australian guy's excitable australian power supply i guess
2013-03-03T21:35:55 < BrainDamage> annoying australian guy?
2013-03-03T21:36:34 < dirty_d> BrainDamage, what about a quadcoper with an aerodynamic up/down cross section that takes off like a quadcopter and flies sideways?
2013-03-03T21:37:00 < dirty_d> like boba fet's ship
2013-03-03T21:37:06 < dirty_d> i think
2013-03-03T21:37:39 < BrainDamage> like a set of motors in vertical and a set on horizontal?
2013-03-03T21:38:36 < BrainDamage> the main benefit of having horizontal motors, is that you can use airfoils
2013-03-03T21:39:13 < dirty_d> no just like a quadcopter
2013-03-03T21:39:39 < dirty_d> you could have a wing where the one of the X lines are
2013-03-03T21:39:47 <+Steffanx> dirty_d you have seen that 'quadcopter' with a wing that takes off like a copter and uses the wing to 'fly' horizontally?
2013-03-03T21:39:49 < dirty_d> have the blades retract inside themselves
2013-03-03T21:39:59 < dirty_d> Steffanx, no but thats probably ecaxtly what im talking about
2013-03-03T21:40:12 < dirty_d> big long baldes for takeoff
2013-03-03T21:40:25 < dirty_d> then retract then blade tips inside for high speed horizontal travel
2013-03-03T21:40:34 < dirty_d> now thats complicated
2013-03-03T21:40:34 < dirty_d> lol
2013-03-03T21:40:40 <+Steffanx> No that wasn't it but :P
2013-03-03T21:40:43 <+Steffanx> no
2013-03-03T21:41:08 <+Steffanx> http://transition-robotics.com/collections/quadshots that one
2013-03-03T21:41:55 < gxti> excitable australian power supply uses a digipot, lame
2013-03-03T21:42:02 <+Steffanx> That esden from here is even related to that project iirc dirty_d :)
2013-03-03T21:42:03 < dirty_d> yea thats what i mean except that looks cooler
2013-03-03T21:42:07 < gxti> i considered that route but it seems like a cop-out
2013-03-03T21:42:32 <+Steffanx> "He co-founded Transition Robotics" Oh :D
2013-03-03T21:42:39 < dirty_d> ok really gtfoing now
2013-03-03T21:42:54 < gxti> i guess it doesn't matter, i don't need 1% precision
2013-03-03T21:42:59 < gxti> just powering digital shits
2013-03-03T21:43:55 <+Steffanx> You can listen to that annoying guy gxti ?
2013-03-03T21:44:05 <+Steffanx> Or do you have sound muted?
2013-03-03T21:44:19 < gxti> honestly doesn't bother me
2013-03-03T21:44:36 <+Steffanx> Infected by yankeelandish
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2013-03-03T21:48:20 <+Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F-VVjqarZE whoaa, one really thinks he needs that ?!
2013-03-03T21:48:33 <+Steffanx> ( totally unrelayed youtube link )
2013-03-03T21:48:41 <+Steffanx> Ok, its ~electronics
2013-03-03T21:49:38 <+Steffanx> *related lol
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2013-03-03T22:03:41 < gxti> ah, excitable australian power supply uses a digipot to set the dc-dc converter and a dac + feedback loop for the postregulator. that makes more sense, not sure if i need it though.
2013-03-03T22:06:40 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb_ https://dx.com/p/creative-mini-2-ch-radio-control-r-c-closestool-toy-white-4-x-aa-189816
2013-03-03T22:07:50 < Gargantuasauce_> [15:00:07] <dirty_d> i wonder if the f3 is fast enough to make a field oriented motor controller
2013-03-03T22:08:02 < Gargantuasauce_> consider that hobby brushless ESCs have crappy little avrs in them
2013-03-03T22:11:20 < R2COM> of course it is fast enough!
2013-03-03T22:11:23 < R2COM> why wouldnt it be
2013-03-03T22:11:35 < R2COM> those things are measured in KHz usually
2013-03-03T22:11:46 < R2COM> the main control loop runs faster though
2013-03-03T22:12:23 < R2COM> and it doesnt matter what the controller is, its how the control program is written, as far as I know most of those ESCs have simple PWM 6-step algorithm
2013-03-03T22:12:32 < R2COM> which is not that smooth
2013-03-03T22:12:42 < R2COM> but yet works for such stuff
2013-03-03T22:13:25 < R2COM> the point is to be able to generate very smooth 3 different sine waves 180deg apart
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2013-03-03T22:22:31 < Laurenceb_> argggg
2013-03-03T22:22:43  * Laurenceb_ just uploaded some dodgy scripts to his server
2013-03-03T22:22:59 < Laurenceb_> several TB of mislabled mess....
2013-03-03T22:24:13 <+Steffanx> uh?
2013-03-03T22:24:28 < BrainDamage> porn downloaders
2013-03-03T22:24:36 < Laurenceb_> now i need to write a script to fix it
2013-03-03T22:24:43 < Laurenceb_> vehicle data
2013-03-03T22:24:54 < Laurenceb_> lorry movements and stuff
2013-03-03T22:25:31 <+Steffanx> BrainDamage.. says the one who voted on mr bunga bunga?
2013-03-03T22:25:44 <+Steffanx> or did you vote on the comedian?
2013-03-03T22:25:44 <+Steffanx> :D
2013-03-03T22:27:09 < gxti> Laurenceb_ knows where you drive
2013-03-03T22:27:13 < gxti> watch out.
2013-03-03T22:27:27 <+Steffanx> He only know HOW i drive, not where
2013-03-03T22:28:17 <+Steffanx> Unless he did some 'advanced' processing/classification on that data
2013-03-03T22:28:38 < gxti> dead reckoning with a kalman filter merged with google maps
2013-03-03T22:28:40 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: neither
2013-03-03T22:28:49 < gxti> 99% probability that you're going to the dildo shop
2013-03-03T22:29:02 <+Steffanx> Please say you don't voted on that "mr europe" BrainDamage :P
2013-03-03T22:29:06 <+Steffanx> *didn't
2013-03-03T22:29:14 < BrainDamage> I had my vote officially cancelled, because I didn't reckognize myself in any of the candidates
2013-03-03T22:29:23 <+Steffanx> Haha
2013-03-03T22:29:36 <+Steffanx> Do you have to vote in italy?
2013-03-03T22:29:42 < BrainDamage> no
2013-03-03T22:29:52 < BrainDamage> I went there, and had it cancelled officially
2013-03-03T22:29:54 < BrainDamage> as protest
2013-03-03T22:30:02 < BrainDamage> not very strong protest, but still
2013-03-03T22:30:15 <+Steffanx> gxti, you need zlog again. I don't have a drivers license remember? :)
2013-03-03T22:30:32 < gxti> Steffanx: oh right, you "walk". whatever that is.
2013-03-03T22:31:05 <+Steffanx> Ha, you figured out what a "benenwagen" is :D
2013-03-03T22:31:25 < gxti> i wasn't really addressing you specifically anyway, just commenting on the fact that anyone trusts Laurenceb_ with data
2013-03-03T22:31:30 < BrainDamage> not voting in italian means officially "I don't care"
2013-03-03T22:31:50 < BrainDamage> while having your vote officially cancelled means "I don't reckognize myself in any of the parties"
2013-03-03T22:32:13 <+Steffanx> Here you can't do that unfortunately :(
2013-03-03T22:32:47 < gxti> a few locales here have 'none of the above', i wish mine did
2013-03-03T22:32:59 < gxti> although generally i don't find the local candidates that offensive
2013-03-03T22:33:15 <+Steffanx> Here you can vote something that is called "blanco"
2013-03-03T22:33:30 < gxti> insert race joke here
2013-03-03T22:34:25 <+Steffanx> </jokes>
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2013-03-03T23:03:30 < gxti> now look what you did
2013-03-03T23:04:06 <+Steffanx> You deserve it
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2013-03-03T23:42:14 < rigid> wow, political talk on #stm32?
2013-03-03T23:42:27 < rigid> this is _teh_ social channel :)
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2013-03-03T23:45:41 < Laurenceb_> what the fuuuuu
2013-03-03T23:45:47 < Laurenceb_> i didnt screw up the server
2013-03-03T23:45:57 < Laurenceb_> some perman00b did
2013-03-03T23:46:11 < Laurenceb_> in future I'm going to restrict access to myself only
2013-03-03T23:47:18 < rigid> ...teach 'em how to fish... don't expel them from the pond ;)
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2013-03-03T23:48:28 < Jenev> does anyone here know of any elf loader source for the stm32f4?
2013-03-03T23:48:52 < Jenev> i've been trying to get one working for the past two day without any success
2013-03-03T23:48:59 < Jenev> here's my code...
2013-03-03T23:49:07 < Jenev> http://ideone.com/1lvLtj
2013-03-03T23:49:19 < Laurenceb_> rofl
2013-03-03T23:49:22 -!- elektrinis [circuit@78.60.169.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2013-03-03T23:49:32 < Laurenceb_> why used "." as a seperator in file names
2013-03-03T23:49:38 < Laurenceb_> *they
2013-03-03T23:49:47 < Laurenceb_> fail/0
2013-03-03T23:50:45 < Jenev> sorry wrong code
2013-03-03T23:50:54 < Jenev> this is actually the code..
2013-03-03T23:50:54 < Jenev> http://ideone.com/2CzU2d
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2013-03-04T00:48:35 < Laurenceb_> so.. 1) perman00b logs onto server and clusterfucks the files
2013-03-04T00:48:56 < Laurenceb_> 2) i have some updates scripts to run, but im worried they might corrupt something
2013-03-04T00:49:15 < Laurenceb_> 3) i run backup scripts, and back up the clusterfucked files, overwriting the existing backup
2013-03-04T00:49:22 < Laurenceb_> 4)EPIC FAIL
2013-03-04T00:50:09 < gxti> one copy does not a backup make
2013-03-04T00:51:08 < Laurenceb_> yeah, i have other backups
2013-03-04T00:51:14 < Laurenceb_> but they are a few months old
2013-03-04T00:52:40 < gxti> step 1: source control  step 2: no access except through source control
2013-03-04T00:52:52 < gxti> no more n00bz
2013-03-04T00:53:14 < zyp> step 3: source control access only through review
2013-03-04T00:53:33 < gxti> that would be torture for hardware, but i guess Laurenceb_ didn't say what it was
2013-03-04T00:53:52 < gxti> poor code quality is a separate but relevant issue :P
2013-03-04T00:53:59 < zyp> :p
2013-03-04T00:54:21 < gxti> code review at $WORK is "i watch the commit mail and yell at people"
2013-03-04T00:54:45 < Laurenceb_> yeah i should have limited access to write only
2013-03-04T00:54:58 < gxti> there's also a commit hook that catches the stupid stuff like missing variables
2013-03-04T00:55:04 < Laurenceb_> n00bs decided to change all the filenames for data logs
2013-03-04T00:55:15 < Laurenceb_> losing the user id in the process
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2013-03-04T00:55:31 < Laurenceb_> im using time info to fix it
2013-03-04T00:56:09 < Laurenceb_> 12-11-08__16.15.23
2013-03-04T00:56:13 < Laurenceb_> what the actual fuck
2013-03-04T00:56:33 < Laurenceb_> how could you possibly think that was a good idea for a filename format
2013-03-04T00:56:48 < zyp> at work everything goes through gerrit, so every time I'm fixing something I have to figure out who to yell at to review/approve it
2013-03-04T00:56:59 < gxti> kind of stupid but at least the digits are in the right order
2013-03-04T00:57:11 < gxti> that said, ISO or GTFO
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2013-03-04T00:59:24 < dongs> wait, someone managed to "clusterfuck" stuff on top of Laurenceb_'s already clusterfucked code?
2013-03-04T00:59:29 < dongs> That's almost impressive.
2013-03-04T00:59:43 < Laurenceb_> trolololol
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2013-03-04T01:36:28 < dirty_d> GargantuaSauce, R2COM field oriented is more complex than a 6-step or sine brushless controller
2013-03-04T01:36:54 < dirty_d> you have to measure each phases current at like 10khz and do weird math
2013-03-04T01:36:58 < dirty_d> or more
2013-03-04T01:38:16 < dirty_d> its nbot exactly stable yet... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-8gUVj6i5A
2013-03-04T01:42:05 < R2COM> its not weird math
2013-03-04T01:42:14 < R2COM> mostly its space vector modulation, and lookup tables
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2013-03-04T01:44:24 < dirty_d> yea
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2013-03-04T01:58:34 < dirty_d> i think my stability problem is the ESCs fault
2013-03-04T02:00:28 < zyp> stability problem?
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2013-03-04T02:04:40 < dongs> the escs are running lunix on desktop
2013-03-04T02:04:55 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/x491b.png <- I had some fun with mine today
2013-03-04T02:05:10 < dongs> cool python bro
2013-03-04T02:05:14 < zyp> sure
2013-03-04T02:06:00 < dirty_d> zyp, yea see the video?
2013-03-04T02:06:10 < zyp> oscillations due to high Kp, I was adjusting it down when it stabilized
2013-03-04T02:06:12 < dirty_d> i had to lower the P so much it doesnt really even stabilize
2013-03-04T02:06:14 < zyp> dirty_d, no
2013-03-04T02:06:20 < dirty_d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-8gUVj6i5A
2013-03-04T02:06:35 < dirty_d> the ESCs have like a rediculous IIR filter in the firmware
2013-03-04T02:07:20 < dirty_d> if i put it on the floot with no props and try to make it go full pitch down i can hear the motors take literally over a second to speed up
2013-03-04T02:07:23 < dirty_d> floor*
2013-03-04T02:07:45 < zyp> are they configured for soft start?
2013-03-04T02:07:48 < dongs> so reflash esc with proper firmware
2013-03-04T02:07:55 < dirty_d> i think i found firmware that i cna use to reflash them here
2013-03-04T02:08:03 < dirty_d> http://0x.ca/~sim/esc/
2013-03-04T02:08:07 < dongs> yeah .
2013-03-04T02:08:07 < dongs> that.
2013-03-04T02:08:52 < zyp> I should probably also do that, if I weren't so lazy :p
2013-03-04T02:09:09 < Laurenceb_> wow
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2013-03-04T02:09:27 < Laurenceb_> theres a few different board supported there...
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2013-03-04T02:09:56 < dirty_d> yea
2013-03-04T02:10:05 < dirty_d> mine not in the list, but i think one of them is the saem
2013-03-04T02:10:11 < dirty_d> i have HK SS 70A
2013-03-04T02:10:19 < dirty_d> i think red brick 70A is the same
2013-03-04T02:10:21 < dirty_d> it looks the same
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2013-03-04T02:10:50 < zyp> I have turnigy plush, but I'm not sure whether they are avr or sil
2013-03-04T02:11:04 < dirty_d> zyp, no i reprogrammed them when i first got them
2013-03-04T02:11:27 < dirty_d> which model?
2013-03-04T02:11:32 < zyp> 25A
2013-03-04T02:11:43 < dirty_d> oh, i only see the 18A one in that list
2013-03-04T02:11:54 < zyp> doesn't matter
2013-03-04T02:12:25 < dongs> why teh fuck do you have a 70A esc
2013-03-04T02:12:26 < dongs> on taht shit
2013-03-04T02:12:40 < zyp> it's xbox
2013-03-04T02:12:55 < zyp> oh, wait
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2013-03-04T02:13:23 < zyp> I thought I had 25A, grabbed one of the spare ones and it's labeled 18A
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2013-03-04T02:14:56 < zyp> http://0x.ca/~sim/esc/HK_TR_P18A/ <- the components under the shrinkwrap matches this, so I guess it's silabs then
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2013-03-04T02:15:24 < dongs> you ahve that tall cap?
2013-03-04T02:15:31 < zyp> yes
2013-03-04T02:16:49 < zyp> how are they flashed? pads are gnd, vcc, rx, tx?
2013-03-04T02:17:03 < zyp> so just hook up to some uart stuff?
2013-03-04T02:17:47 < Laurenceb_> oohh that reminds me
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2013-03-04T02:18:45 < Laurenceb_> i need to make a lipo powered scooter
2013-03-04T02:18:54 < Laurenceb_> that would require a nutty ESC
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2013-03-04T02:19:43 < zyp> you probably want one with encoder feedback
2013-03-04T02:19:53 < zyp> instead of relying on back-emf
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2013-03-04T02:23:41 < Laurenceb_> would need an accel on there as well
2013-03-04T02:23:47 < Laurenceb_> or you will flip off the back
2013-03-04T02:24:13 < zyp> are you building a segway?
2013-03-04T02:26:24 < dirty_d> zyp, yea you can
2013-03-04T02:26:31 < dirty_d> i have an avr programmer so ill just use that
2013-03-04T02:26:44 < dirty_d> im not sure if the pads are broken out someehre
2013-03-04T02:26:46 < dirty_d> its QFN
2013-03-04T02:26:57 < zyp> duh, can't program a silabs chip with an avr programmer
2013-03-04T02:27:12 < dirty_d> oh right
2013-03-04T02:27:27 < dirty_d> mines atmega8
2013-03-04T02:27:49 < dirty_d> it looks different than the red brick 70A but from everything ive looked at so fat the circuits are the same
2013-03-04T02:27:52 < dirty_d> just placed differently
2013-03-04T02:27:59 < dirty_d> and QFN instead of TQFP
2013-03-04T02:35:02 < Laurenceb_> zyp: no
2013-03-04T02:35:08 < Laurenceb_> wheels in the other exis
2013-03-04T02:35:10 < Laurenceb_> *axis
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2013-03-04T03:22:03 < dirty_d> these dickheads have pads for a pullup resistor for the reset pin of this avr on my ESC
2013-03-04T03:22:22 < dirty_d> but instead of using it, they just disabled the reset pin so you cant reprogram it, lol
2013-03-04T03:26:14 < gxti> ha
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2013-03-04T03:33:29 < Erlkoenig> dirty_d: "you do not want to write any software on your own; you only want to connect the ESC to readily-made equipment"
2013-03-04T03:36:18 < dirty_d> Erlkoenig, hmm?
2013-03-04T03:37:00 < Erlkoenig> that's why the reset is disabled
2013-03-04T03:38:36 < dirty_d> im gona work around this
2013-03-04T03:38:40 < dirty_d> fascist bastards
2013-03-04T03:39:22 < dirty_d> supposedly a high voltage avr programmer still works when reset is disABLED
2013-03-04T03:41:03 < dongs> Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to www.nxp.com
2013-03-04T03:41:04 < dongs> lolwtu
2013-03-04T03:42:54 < gxti> works for me
2013-03-04T03:43:05 < dongs> http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/TDA8023.pdf this link?
2013-03-04T03:43:22 < gxti> yes
2013-03-04T03:43:41 < dongs> fucked.
2013-03-04T03:43:43 < gxti> smart cards nice.
2013-03-04T03:43:47 < Erlkoenig> works for me too
2013-03-04T03:44:12 < BrainDamage> dongs plans to clone Laurenceb's office keycard to do irl trolling
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2013-03-04T04:21:37 < dongs> http://www.micromegacorp.com/umfpu-v2.html what teh FUCK
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2013-03-04T04:25:08 < gxti> no indication of how slow it is but it's obviously just a crappy microcontroller
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2013-03-04T04:26:37 < dongs> right
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2013-03-04T04:26:58 < dongs> .. from 2005
2013-03-04T04:27:01 < gxti> oh interesting, flyback *is* alive. he just forgot about this channel. nobody say anything...
2013-03-04T04:27:03 < dongs> so it cant be anythign more awesome than some shitty attiny
2013-03-04T04:27:12 < dongs> where is he?
2013-03-04T04:27:42 < Erlkoenig1> dongs: this thing is probably ancient
2013-03-04T04:27:46 < gxti> i just saw one of his trademark shitty /asays in #olimex 2 hours ago but i've never seen him talk there
2013-03-04T04:27:57 < dongs> stupid canuck shit?
2013-03-04T04:28:01 < dongs> Erlkoenig1: no shit
2013-03-04T04:28:06 -!- Erlkoenig [~erlkoenig@pptp-212-201-76-142.pptp.stw-bonn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2013-03-04T04:28:08 < gxti> no he had a "rotten day" and needs a nap
2013-03-04T04:28:30 < dongs> loldongs.
2013-03-04T04:28:36 < Erlkoenig1> SPI up to 40 MHz... cute
2013-03-04T04:28:44 < Erlkoenig1> aeh, 4
2013-03-04T04:28:55 < dongs> on that trash?
2013-03-04T04:28:59 < dongs> yeah its probly attiny or wahtever
2013-03-04T04:29:14 < Erlkoenig1> that would be absurd :D
2013-03-04T04:29:28 < dongs> if youuse it in i2c mode
2013-03-04T04:29:29 < gxti> yes it is definitely that
2013-03-04T04:29:35 < dongs> its e ven more awesome
2013-03-04T04:29:36 < dongs> because like
2013-03-04T04:29:52 < gxti> anyway, enough about boring crap chips
2013-03-04T04:30:00 < dongs> 12.5us to do fp multiplication on avr
2013-03-04T04:30:03 < dongs> at 16mhz
2013-03-04T04:30:05 < gxti> i've got analog designs to screw up
2013-03-04T04:30:11 < dongs>  transferring 8(address)+8(command)+32(multiplicator)+32(multiplicator)+32(product as result)=120bits via i2c = 30ms
2013-03-04T04:30:27 < dongs> i wonder what the fuck the target audience for this shit is
2013-03-04T04:30:30 < Erlkoenig1> this is probably made for ooold slooow controllers
2013-03-04T04:30:31 < dongs> retards?
2013-03-04T04:30:42 < dongs> probably same g uys who buy basicstamp
2013-03-04T04:30:53 < gxti> there are a lot of mediocre engineering shops out there
2013-03-04T04:31:01 < gxti> i mean how else would Laurenceb be employed hoooooo
2013-03-04T04:31:50 < Erlkoenig1> dongs: look at the start page. that FPU connected to... Arduinp
2013-03-04T04:32:42 < dongs> which?
2013-03-04T04:32:45 < dongs>  / of that site?
2013-03-04T04:32:50 < Erlkoenig1> http://www.micromegacorp.com/
2013-03-04T04:32:51 < Erlkoenig1> yup
2013-03-04T04:32:56 < Erlkoenig1> http://www.micromegacorp.com/images/Arduino%20uM-FPU64%20breakout_image.jpg
2013-03-04T04:32:56 < dongs> haha
2013-03-04T04:32:57 < dongs> with fritzing
2013-03-04T04:33:05 < gxti> modern retards i guess
2013-03-04T04:33:19 < Erlkoenig1> you got the audience :D
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2013-03-04T04:33:49 < dongs> awesome through hole shit
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2013-03-04T04:34:57 < Erlkoenig> there is an "IDE" for that... omg :D
2013-03-04T04:35:09 < dongs> well tehy had to invent their own instruction set so yea
2013-03-04T04:35:15 < emeb_mac> dongs: thinking about getting a license of dicktrace
2013-03-04T04:35:32 < dongs> http://www.micromegacorp.com/images/uM-FPU64%20Photo.jpg avr doesn't come in ssop does it?
2013-03-04T04:35:32 < emeb_mac> played around with the trial version a bit - seems pretty intuitive.
2013-03-04T04:35:41 < dongs> emeb_mac: i'd imagine it would be money well spent
2013-03-04T04:35:49 < dongs> vs wasting time dicking w/kikecad etcv.
2013-03-04T04:35:56 < dongs> or geda.
2013-03-04T04:36:06 < emeb_mac> yeah - already got a couple jobs on the horizon that I can use it for.
2013-03-04T04:36:25 < gxti> i guess i should have started this psu project in dicktrace. oh well.
2013-03-04T04:37:08 < emeb_mac> main downside is that all my projects so far are in geda, so I will have to start over on any stuff that builds on previous.
2013-03-04T04:37:09 < dongs>  /MCLR
2013-03-04T04:37:10 < dongs> sounds like PIC
2013-03-04T04:37:14 < emeb_mac> but that's not too big a deal.
2013-03-04T04:37:28 < dongs> oh, could be dspic or something
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2013-03-04T04:37:55 < dongs> http://uk.farnell.com/microchip/dspic30f2020-30i-so/16bit-mcu-dsp-30mhz-smd-soic28/dp/1332026 tada
2013-03-04T04:43:42 < gxti> why are you even still thinking about this
2013-03-04T04:43:48 < dongs> no idea
2013-03-04T04:43:51 < dongs> just seems so retarded.
2013-03-04T04:43:54 < dongs> cant stop
2013-03-04T04:44:34 < Erlkoenig> heh
2013-03-04T04:44:53 < Erlkoenig> think about RC Model receivers, that stuff is retarded too
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2013-03-04T04:45:41 < Erlkoenig> they charge like 40€ for 3 IC's worth 30ct each, a ton of resistors and a bit plastic
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2013-03-04T04:46:05 < gxti> not the same kind of retarded as programming a PIC to do something usually done in software and selling it for $15
2013-03-04T04:46:22 < gxti> at least the overpriced receiver does something useful
2013-03-04T04:46:49 < dongs> haha
2013-03-04T04:47:01 < dongs> well that and you can generally get cheaper chinese shit that works better as far as receivers go
2013-03-04T04:47:22 < Erlkoenig> cheaper yes, but still not reasonably cheap, and those are still rare
2013-03-04T04:48:11 < gxti> maybe your expectations are unreasonable then
2013-03-04T04:48:56 < Erlkoenig> well, 2.4 GHz Transceiver are about 1€, and 40MHz Receivers at least 10€?
2013-03-04T04:49:46 < rigid> if you want to see really horrible prices, look into low-speed powerline transceiver stuff
2013-03-04T04:50:03 < dongs> china shit just uses CC2250 or wahtever, yes they're super cheap in qty
2013-03-04T04:50:22 < dongs> nothing's stopping you from doing your own
2013-03-04T04:50:27 < dongs> but high speed RF is hard to get right so...
2013-03-04T04:50:43 < dongs> chances are you could design a pcb for it yourself and make a few but it's sitll cost more (including a couple fail tries) than just buying the receiver.
2013-03-04T04:50:53 < dongs> i think ~25bucks or wahtever frsky stuff costs for rx is pretty reasonable
2013-03-04T04:52:11 < Erlkoenig> comparing to what a WLAN or Bluetooth stick can do, and costs...
2013-03-04T04:52:25 < Erlkoenig> you can get a whole new mobile phone for that price
2013-03-04T04:52:34 < dongs> bluetooth or wlan stick doesn't have a 5km range
2013-03-04T04:53:17 < Erlkoenig> but much more complexity
2013-03-04T04:53:35 < gxti> i wish this LM334 datasheet actually said which part numbers have the "alternative" pinout
2013-03-04T04:55:21 < dongs> gxti: looks like LM334 and LM334S
2013-03-04T04:55:40 < gxti> that's what i assume, it's just annoying it's never called out anywhere
2013-03-04T04:55:42 < dongs> LM334MX = normal LM334SMX = alt
2013-03-04T04:55:43 < dongs> yeah
2013-03-04T04:57:19 < ds2> is that the quad comparator?
2013-03-04T04:58:32 < gxti> ds2: current source
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2013-03-04T05:13:11 < zippe> Erlkoenig: yes, just ignore the months or years worth of engineering time that goes into designing the stupid thing, or writing the software for it
2013-03-04T05:14:03 < Erlkoenig> zippe: with the ready-made IC's and PCB's, i'd guess it's maximally a week worth of work for a skilled engineer... and there's no software involved
2013-03-04T05:14:49 < zippe> Erlkoenig: you are either trolling me or remarkably ignorant
2013-03-04T05:15:01 < Erlkoenig> probably the latter
2013-03-04T05:15:13 < zippe> Erlkoenig: May I recommend that you spend a few years making stuff?
2013-03-04T05:15:29 < Erlkoenig> http://games.2g2s.de/elektronik/master-rx-4/DSCF0325.JPG  this circuit does not look SO complicated
2013-03-04T05:15:36 < zippe> Erlkoenig: Come back when you've brought a product to market and sold at least a few thousand units.
2013-03-04T05:15:46 < Erlkoenig> no i am in a different field
2013-03-04T05:15:59 < zippe> Ok, well take it from someone that isn't
2013-03-04T05:16:14 < zippe> You are wildly off the mark
2013-03-04T05:16:29 < gxti> indeed
2013-03-04T05:16:44 < zippe> And apologies for sounding narked
2013-03-04T05:16:57 < zippe> But as someone that has been maker-ing stuff since his late teens
2013-03-04T05:17:26 < zippe> The BoM cost for a low-volume product bears little or no correlation to what you have to charge for it if you want to eat for long enough to get the next product done.
2013-03-04T05:18:06 < zippe> For stuff that sells in Sparkfun-ish volumes, you need to retail for at least 2.5x BoM cost to stay afloat
2013-03-04T05:18:06 < Erlkoenig> i wouldn't guess those are low-volume
2013-03-04T05:18:17 < zippe> They aren't selling a million of them.
2013-03-04T05:18:23 < Erlkoenig> but probably 500.000
2013-03-04T05:18:28 < zippe> Unlikely
2013-03-04T05:18:34 < zippe> 50k, maybe.
2013-03-04T05:18:36 < Erlkoenig> it's consumer electronic
2013-03-04T05:18:38 < gxti> Erlkoenig: look at your cellphone example
2013-03-04T05:18:46 < gxti> Erlkoenig: how many people have cellphones? how many people have RC planes?
2013-03-04T05:18:58 < zippe> "it's consumer electronic" … so what?
2013-03-04T05:19:05 < zippe> The R/C hobby is tiny.
2013-03-04T05:19:51 < gxti> and a $30 receiver is not the garbage in most toys either
2013-03-04T05:20:25 < gxti> it's not SUPER-niche but it's far from omnipresent
2013-03-04T05:20:31 < zippe> Re: the Sparkfun comment; that assumes you have recovered your NRE in tools and plant.
2013-03-04T05:20:47 < zippe> Erlkoenig: here, let's consider your 40MHz receiver as an example.
2013-03-04T05:20:55 < zippe> You're going to pay two engineers to develop it.
2013-03-04T05:21:05 < zippe> One will do the RF frontend, the other will do the software and the digital side.
2013-03-04T05:21:13 < Erlkoenig> there is no software and no digital side
2013-03-04T05:21:17 < Erlkoenig> the digital side is a damn shift register
2013-03-04T05:21:24 < GargantuaSauce> lol
2013-03-04T05:21:34 < zippe> Ok, so you're looking at one of the older designs; I can't tell from your shitty pic.
2013-03-04T05:21:35 < Erlkoenig> teh analog side is ONE ic and a LM393
2013-03-04T05:21:53 < Erlkoenig> sorry for my lack of a 500$ cam
2013-03-04T05:22:07 < zippe> It's OK, just don't crawl up my ass because I can't read your mind.
2013-03-04T05:22:19 < Erlkoenig> didn't i write that before...
2013-03-04T05:22:34 < zippe> The modern versions tend to be using a micro because it's quicker and easier and you can tune the design after you get the boards back.
2013-03-04T05:22:49 < zippe> But ok, so you're doing the separator and then a shift register for PWM decode.
2013-03-04T05:22:50 < Erlkoenig> and the modern versions use 2.4 GHz...
2013-03-04T05:22:59 < zippe> Tell Berg that.
2013-03-04T05:23:09 < zippe> Actually, he sold out to CC, so tell Pat Castillo instead.
2013-03-04T05:23:41 < zippe> So, great. Let's assume that you've ripped off the PPM->PWM decoder from someone else's design.
2013-03-04T05:24:03 < Erlkoenig> ... like the HF detector that's just the circuit copied from the appnote of the IC...
2013-03-04T05:24:06 < zippe> You're going to spend a week or so going over your RF design handbook and laying out a fairly conventional FM superhet frontend
2013-03-04T05:24:19 < zippe> Then you'll breadboard it up and nothing will work
2013-03-04T05:24:29 < zippe> Or it will be all over the place and sensitivity will suck.
2013-03-04T05:24:53 < zippe> So now you get to screw around with your expensive, leased test equipment trying to work out why it only works after 5pm
2013-03-04T05:25:08 < zippe> Until you realise that's when your receptionist goes home and turns off the heater she has keeping her feet warm.
2013-03-04T05:25:31 < zippe> So you get the circuit behaving OK and you lay out a PCB and you send it out and get a run of ten or so made
2013-03-04T05:25:45 < zippe> Only the PCB house screws up and so you have to adjust the board and send it out again, then you order in all your parts
2013-03-04T05:26:01 < zippe> The prototypes probably cost you 50-100 each to make, once you factor in engineer time putting them together.
2013-03-04T05:26:11 < zippe> The first one goes up in smoke because you shorted something
2013-03-04T05:26:20 < zippe> The second and third just refuse to work.
2013-03-04T05:26:32 < zippe> On the fourth one, it seems to be doing something but it's certainly not what you wanted
2013-03-04T05:26:55 < zippe> So you go back to the bench with your test equipment again and sort out what changed between your breadboard and the proto
2013-03-04T05:27:11 < zippe> Once you sort that out you hack the fifth up with a razor to prove the design
2013-03-04T05:27:23 < zippe> You toss out the other 5 boards, lay a revised version and send it out for fab
2013-03-04T05:27:45 < zippe> Then your parts / supply guy comes in and tells you that the BoM is too high because you're using too many different resistor values
2013-03-04T05:28:15 < zippe> So can you re-tune the front end with only three different resistor/capacitor values total please?
2013-03-04T05:28:36 < zippe> By the third or fourth board revision, and a couple months of your time, you have a design.
2013-03-04T05:28:44 < zippe> Now your ME has been working on the case.
2013-03-04T05:29:01 < zippe> Tooling for the case will run at least $10k, and he'll probably spend a week or two on the design.
2013-03-04T05:29:32 < zippe> Now you do your first production run; perhaps 1k units or so.
2013-03-04T05:29:59 < zippe> While that's going on, your graphics people are doing the box, the manual, the stickers, etc.
2013-03-04T05:30:11 < zippe> Or you contract it all out… that's not uncommon, but the cost is comparable.
2013-03-04T05:30:12 < Erlkoenig> if it had any :D
2013-03-04T05:30:24 < Erlkoenig> the case is a quader with a hole
2013-03-04T05:30:34 < zippe> If you want to sell retail, then you need it.
2013-03-04T05:31:07 < Erlkoenig> the guys who made this thing don't seem to need that
2013-03-04T05:31:31 < gxti> the point is, if you can do better then do it already
2013-03-04T05:31:36 < gxti> otherwise quit yer bitchin
2013-03-04T05:31:38 < zippe> Need what? It has a case, it probably came in a box, there's a sticker on the case
2013-03-04T05:32:06 < zippe> It's covered in TH compnents which are almost certainly hand-soldered, as is the antenna wire, so assembly costs will be substantially higher
2013-03-04T05:32:13 < zippe> than a single-sided board
2013-03-04T05:32:21 < Erlkoenig> no, two-sided
2013-03-04T05:32:34 < zippe> yes, I know.
2013-03-04T05:32:35 < Erlkoenig> gxti: nobody wants those anymore, so you can't earn anything
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2013-03-04T05:32:46 < gxti> Erlkoenig: you bought one. for $30, no less.
2013-03-04T05:32:51 < zippe> I've glossed over a bunch more above
2013-03-04T05:33:05 < zippe> You are probably selling via the channel
2013-03-04T05:33:15 < zippe> SO be prepared not to be paid for 3-6 months after you ship
2013-03-04T05:33:16 < Erlkoenig> gxti: yes, me, for 12€, and maybe 5 people every year
2013-03-04T05:33:35 < zippe> And be prepared for a bunch of stuff you send off to come back damaged, or just "unsold"
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2013-03-04T05:34:18 < zippe> To sell hobby gear into the channel (going on people I've talked to) you need to be at 5x BoM (ballpark) to have a hope of making your money back.
2013-03-04T05:34:39 < zippe> And that's assuming that the majority of your stock sells through.
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2013-03-04T05:35:43 < zippe> So let's assume a month's salary for a team of 5 people for a product like this, plus rent, taxes, depreciation, etc in a first-world engineering country. You're talking on the order of €100k
2013-03-04T05:36:11 < gxti> your edumacation is lost on your target zippe
2013-03-04T05:36:28 < gxti> the student does not wish to learn
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2013-03-04T05:36:57 < Erlkoenig> I'd have guessed those thingies are designed in China. ...
2013-03-04T05:37:26 < zippe> BoM is €5, because you were really aggressive about it; assembly is another €2, packaging is another €1. You're targeting €30 retail which means you have sell into the channel at €10, so you have €2 gross margin per unit. 50k units before you break even.
2013-03-04T05:37:51 < zippe> Erlkoenig: some are, but less than you expect.
2013-03-04T05:38:33 < zippe> Note that I've left out testing and certification NRE, shipping, advertising, etc. etc. etc.
2013-03-04T05:38:59 < zippe> I'm working on something right now that I *hope* will be able to retail for US$150 or so.
2013-03-04T05:39:55 < zippe> We have just spent two weeks squeezing the BoM under US$55. That's two weeks for two engineers that cost upwards of US$100k each gross salary (so more like US$150k by the time you include cost-of-employment)
2013-03-04T05:40:50 < zippe> Do the math. It's not hard; if we save $5 off the cost of the unit, how many units do we have to sell to recover what those two weeks cost?
2013-03-04T05:41:39 < Erlkoenig> 30k?
2013-03-04T05:41:40 < zippe> As someone that has to juggle this sort of thing, do you understand why I might be a bit narked at someone who says "the circuit is simple and it's just a few bucks in parts, fuck I'm being ripped off because it cost me twenty dollars"?
2013-03-04T05:42:14 < zippe> Great. How hard do you think it is to sell 30k units of anything that isn't a smash hit into the hobby market?
2013-03-04T05:42:26 < Erlkoenig> me. maybe. also impressed by your patience to write an essay just to prove me wrong
2013-03-04T05:42:34 < Erlkoenig> *eh
2013-03-04T05:42:37 < Erlkoenig> *meh
2013-03-04T05:43:00 < zippe> Well, I could just call you a fucking retard and go do something useful, but I figured that if Khan can change the world by explaining things maybe it's worth a shot?
2013-03-04T05:43:27 < gxti> i enjoyed it at least
2013-03-04T05:44:01 < Erlkoenig> not if you account for my ignorance
2013-03-04T05:45:07 < Erlkoenig> so why do the products of a big-ass company which probably has all the equipment in place cost 40€, while the China-replicates cost 10€?
2013-03-04T05:47:32 < GargantuaSauce> replicates is one of the key words
2013-03-04T05:47:40 < GargantuaSauce> design becomes much quicker
2013-03-04T05:47:51 < GargantuaSauce> also lower labour costs and pervasive corner-cutting
2013-03-04T05:48:01 < zippe> Erlkoenig: This is why people doing original designs are so pissed about it. Design costs a ton of money.
2013-03-04T05:48:06 < gxti> no EMI testing, probably barely works at all
2013-03-04T05:48:35 < gxti> questioanble labour practices of course. no retail channel which could be considered a feature.
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2013-03-04T05:49:22 < zippe> Erlkoenig: it's why I asked if you'd ever actually shipped something, because it's not until you've written the cheques for the whole process that you really get to feel it
2013-03-04T05:49:44 < Erlkoenig> no since i am more into software
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2013-03-04T05:50:49 < zippe> Changing the subject totally, who here has actually used any of the Waveshare F4 boards?
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2013-03-04T06:16:32 < dongs> i believe zyp has one
2013-03-04T06:16:34 < dongs> I have their F2 version.
2013-03-04T06:16:38 < dongs> is it F4 specific question?
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2013-03-04T06:18:46 < zippe> Really, I want something with the 427 on it
2013-03-04T06:18:59 < zippe> I may have to get the Mikroe board and one of their bare F4 cards.
2013-03-04T06:19:03 < dongs> oh. i dont think they have anything other than 405/7
2013-03-04T06:19:12 < dongs> i think you probably will have to do that then.
2013-03-04T06:19:18 < dongs> waveshare doesnt evne ahve F3 stuff out.
2013-03-04T06:19:24 < dongs> they just use whats cheap/available, not cutting edge.
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2013-03-04T06:20:41 < dongs> wow, zippe had quite a blog
2013-03-04T06:20:45 < dongs> rageblog I should say
2013-03-04T06:20:46 < dongs> time to read :)
2013-03-04T06:27:06 < dongs> < zippe> Well, I could just call you a fucking retard and go do something useful < thats what I would do, but I enjoyed your rant, thanks zippe . at least I know my shit isn't too horribly overpriced.
2013-03-04T06:28:20 < zippe> 8)
2013-03-04T06:28:33 < emeb_mac> whoo-hoo! >>zing<<
2013-03-04T06:28:54 < dongs> at least my RC shit, anyway. i still rape 1000% markup on TV shit :)
2013-03-04T06:29:51 < emeb_mac> tv folks are used to that.
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2013-03-04T06:42:02 < dongs> lol
2013-03-04T06:42:17 < dongs> i sent off a dp adapter + panel to teh dudes who are doing case + etc for it
2013-03-04T06:42:27 < dongs> "pc doesnt detect"
2013-03-04T06:42:37 < dongs> "how did you connect it"? "we used HDMI>DP cable
2013-03-04T06:42:39 < dongs> "facepalm"
2013-03-04T06:42:45 < gxti> i tried that once
2013-03-04T06:42:54 < gxti> it connects, why doesn't it work i want moneys back
2013-03-04T06:43:15 < gxti> oh, not hdmi though. dvi. still doesn't work.
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2013-03-04T07:21:10 < gxti> ok so let's say i have a buck converter -> linear post-regulator scenario. in that particular context, what are the downsides to using a stm32 timer driving a mosfet or mosfet driver, as opposed to a dedicated IC?
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2013-03-04T07:23:58 < emeb_mac> wait - using the stm32 to do the pwm for the buck converter?
2013-03-04T07:24:21 < gxti> yeah
2013-03-04T07:25:10 < ds2> what happens if the stm32 crashes?
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2013-03-04T07:25:29 < ds2> does it cause the lin regulator to fry?
2013-03-04T07:25:30 < emeb_mac> depends if it crashes with the mosfet on or off I guess
2013-03-04T07:25:33 < flop|2> there's watchdog timer you can use
2013-03-04T07:25:47 < gxti> no, lin handles all the current limiting
2013-03-04T07:25:55 < ds2> can the lin handle the full voltage?
2013-03-04T07:25:58 < gxti> yes
2013-03-04T07:26:11 < ds2> so the stm32 is just for efficiency?
2013-03-04T07:26:14 < emeb_mac> so it's just to reduce the voltage drop
2013-03-04T07:26:15 < gxti> yes
2013-03-04T07:26:32 < emeb_mac> not a bad idea akshully...
2013-03-04T07:26:43 < ds2> can't think of any downsides either
2013-03-04T07:26:48 < ds2> this is battery in?
2013-03-04T07:27:06 < gxti> no, dc from a transformer + rectifier
2013-03-04T07:27:24 < gxti> although a active PFC input would be nifty too
2013-03-04T07:27:30 < gxti> that can come later i guess, this is just a 1A supply
2013-03-04T07:27:32 < ds2> thermal is the reason ultimate?
2013-03-04T07:27:53 < gxti> yes, the linear can't sustain the max current at raw input voltage for thermal reasons
2013-03-04T07:28:03 < gxti> but it will shut down on its own if that happens
2013-03-04T07:28:28 < emeb_mac> So you can run it wide open to start, then begin PWMing the input.
2013-03-04T07:28:56 < gxti> none of this will be powering the mcu so it can do whatever
2013-03-04T07:29:10 < emeb_mac> ah
2013-03-04T07:29:16 < gxti> it's a bench supply, this is for the main current path. the mcu will have its own thing for self-power.
2013-03-04T07:29:17 < emeb_mac> but there's no reason it couldn't...
2013-03-04T07:29:27 < gxti> sure there is, the output could be 5V or 1.0V
2013-03-04T07:29:47 < emeb_mac> well, yeah, in a variable situation.
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2013-03-04T07:29:57 < emeb_mac> I'm thinking of an app I have
2013-03-04T07:30:50 < gxti> i *do* need something for internal power but not sure what yet, it has to run the mcu and a LCD probably
2013-03-04T07:31:02 < emeb_mac> I've got a 12V power in and want to run a 3.3V MCU. I can use a linear regulator as the overall current is < 100ma
2013-03-04T07:31:23 < emeb_mac> but the regulator will be *warm* due to the 8.7V drop
2013-03-04T07:31:46 < emeb_mac> a bit better efficiency would be a plus too, as the 12V is shared with other stuff.
2013-03-04T07:32:00 < gxti> ok, so next question is what i can find for mosfet driving that isn't more expensive than the switcher ICs
2013-03-04T07:32:20 < gxti> raw voltage is somewhere in the 7-15 range, haven't nailed it down yet. off to DK i go...
2013-03-04T07:32:33 < emeb_mac> oh - to get the gate voltage past Vth from 3.3V?
2013-03-04T07:33:05 < gxti> yes, and possibly also to drive a low-side fet although considering the scale here i probably wouldn't have issues just driving it from an output pin
2013-03-04T07:33:14 < gxti> but this is h-bridge stuff so it shouldn't be TOO hard to find
2013-03-04T07:33:39 < emeb_mac> hopefully. Never looked too closely at this kind of thing.
2013-03-04T07:34:49 < emeb_mac> I was doing some quick research on switchers for this app the other day.
2013-03-04T07:35:34 < emeb_mac> looks like a Natsemi "Simple Switcher" in a tiny SOT23-6 pkg + some passives could do it for ~$3
2013-03-04T07:36:04 < emeb_mac> but the equivalent LDO wasting power as heat would be <$1
2013-03-04T07:36:33 < ds2> IIRC,there have been either projects or app notes on using PICs and MSP430's as a switcher
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2013-03-04T07:49:30 < gxti> this is nearly perfect, would be nice if vcc was wider: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/NCP5359DR2G/NCP5359DR2GOSCT-ND/3462400
2013-03-04T07:49:59 < gxti> if i don't care about delay time, and i'm pretty sure i don't, the 25ns version does 4.5 - 13.2
2013-03-04T07:50:43 < gxti> err that's an entirely different manufacturer, let alone part.
2013-03-04T07:54:00 < gxti> that or ncp5901 should work great. minor overkill for 1A but i want to make a 5-6A version later.
2013-03-04T07:55:57 < emeb_mac> lots of functionality there.
2013-03-04T07:57:21 < dongs> rc trash uses shit like max662 to do gate driver supply fro m5V
2013-03-04T07:58:08 < gxti> yeah well i'm not making trash. i hope.
2013-03-04T07:58:29 < gxti> but i've done enough damage for one night, bedtime before i can fuck up my schematic any more.
2013-03-04T07:58:33 < ds2> I do wonder... isn't the stm32 overkill for this?
2013-03-04T07:58:45 < gxti> well the stm32 is doing other stuff
2013-03-04T07:58:58 < gxti> LCD, encoder knobs, ethernet
2013-03-04T07:59:17 < gxti> preregulator PWM is pretty easy so it shouldn't interfere
2013-03-04T07:59:20 < ds2> ohhh ethernet
2013-03-04T07:59:54 < gxti> well, lightweight ethernet. it's just a bench supply that has monitoring/control capabilities. could use an external mac if there was a reason to.
2013-03-04T08:00:14 < ds2> yes but ethernet on small chips is painful
2013-03-04T08:00:20 < ds2> unless you doing the SPI ethernet
2013-03-04T08:00:20 < gxti> but i will probably use f107 because it's pretty cost effective especially since i have a pile of 30 upstairs.
2013-03-04T08:00:54 < emeb_mac> and you already have experience getting ethernet on f107 to work
2013-03-04T08:01:19 < gxti> indeed
2013-03-04T08:01:39 < dongs> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/sunday-review/the-holocaust-just-got-more-shocking.html
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2013-03-04T08:08:44  * pelrun bangs head against desk
2013-03-04T08:09:13 < pelrun> spent hours trying to get crossworks to talk to my target board last weekend (boss wants me to evaluate it), finally succeeded
2013-03-04T08:09:19 < pelrun> this morning it doesn't work anymore
2013-03-04T08:09:58 < pelrun> beginning to think something fried the nrst pin on my stlink
2013-03-04T08:11:52 < dongs> never had issues with crossworks + stlink
2013-03-04T08:12:00 < dongs> or jlink (which is whaT I usualyl use it with)
2013-03-04T08:15:34 < emeb_mac> crossworks. meh.
2013-03-04T08:15:41 < dongs> yea im not impressed
2013-03-04T08:15:43 < dongs> because of gcc.
2013-03-04T08:15:56 < dongs> and the "IDE" is pretty fucktastic
2013-03-04T08:16:07 < dongs> i'd expect somethign on version "2.0" to at least have syntax checking/code complete/etc.
2013-03-04T08:16:12 < dongs> and i even paid for that shit.
2013-03-04T08:16:21  * emeb_mac paid for it too
2013-03-04T08:16:36 < dongs> apparently they have some hooks for code complete
2013-03-04T08:16:49 < dongs> but it got broke and never fixed??
2013-03-04T08:18:16 < pelrun> ...sigh
2013-03-04T08:18:34 < emeb_mac> I'm thinking CooCox works about as well as Crossworks.
2013-03-04T08:18:41 < dongs> the ide?
2013-03-04T08:18:47 < emeb_mac> overall
2013-03-04T08:18:50 < dongs> i'd say better because eclipse at least sucks less than a custom-made QT trash
2013-03-04T08:19:06 < emeb_mac> wouldn't argue
2013-03-04T08:20:00 < dongs> also, re: your comment about moving g eda designs to dicktrace...
2013-03-04T08:20:14 < dongs> i think it would take longer to modify a single pattern in geda than it would take to just remake the shit in dicktrace
2013-03-04T08:20:20 < dongs> remake = remake all
2013-03-04T08:24:10 < emeb_mac> could be
2013-03-04T08:24:30 < emeb_mac> I'm still plowing through the tutorial to see how the whole flow works.
2013-03-04T08:24:37 < emeb_mac> schematic seems good so far tho
2013-03-04T08:24:51 < emeb_mac> no UI surprises.
2013-03-04T08:25:57 < pelrun> turns out if the F4 on the f4discovery has it's power jumper pulled off, then the nrst pin on the swd connector is forced low
2013-03-04T08:26:01 < pelrun> nice one ST
2013-03-04T08:26:21 < dongs> um
2013-03-04T08:26:26 < dongs> orly?
2013-03-04T08:26:28 < dongs> did you remove the 2 jumpers?
2013-03-04T08:26:33 < pelrun> yes
2013-03-04T08:26:38 < pelrun> I had all the jumpers pulled
2013-03-04T08:26:43 < emeb_mac> SWO and NRST pins aren't jumpered.
2013-03-04T08:26:51 < pelrun> but I needed the Idd jumper installed
2013-03-04T08:27:03 < pelrun> otherwise it fucks over NRST
2013-03-04T08:27:48 < dongs> cute
2013-03-04T08:27:55 < pelrun> i know
2013-03-04T08:27:56 < emeb_mac> dongs: any experience using the diptrace importer/exporter features? Useful, or just a marketing bullet?
2013-03-04T08:28:20 < dongs> depends between what and what, I've used it to import patterns made in altium designer
2013-03-04T08:28:29 < dongs> since it has a nice bga/etc wizard
2013-03-04T08:28:39 < dongs> i wouldn't trust importing an entire design this way though
2013-03-04T08:29:02 < dongs> the autorouter import/export stuff works fine though.
2013-03-04T08:29:33 < emeb_mac> wonder if it's any good bringing in orcad stuff...
2013-03-04T08:30:28 < emeb_mac> or eagle libs. lotta those about.
2013-03-04T08:30:34 < dongs> n o.
2013-03-04T08:30:39 < emeb_mac> :)
2013-03-04T08:30:39 < dongs> just draw shit new.
2013-03-04T08:30:42 < dongs> also: lol eagle.
2013-03-04T08:30:55 < emeb_mac> never used it myself.
2013-03-04T08:30:57 < dongs> i dont think there's a single component in the sparakfun eagle libray that isnt fucked one way ort another
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2013-03-04T08:32:43 < zippe> eagle = quite unpleasant
2013-03-04T08:33:08 < emeb_mac> I played with it years ago. Not impressed.
2013-03-04T08:33:46  * emeb_mac makes a distinction between playing with an EDA tool and actually using it for a design.
2013-03-04T08:34:46 < ds2> really? eagle seems very pleasant compared to alteratives
2013-03-04T08:35:21 < emeb_mac> what alternatives have you tried?
2013-03-04T08:35:29 < ds2> let see...
2013-03-04T08:35:44 < ds2> proto, altium, viewdraw or whatever that monster is called
2013-03-04T08:36:38 < emeb_mac> never tried any of those
2013-03-04T08:37:05 < zippe> ds2: eagle fails in some really basic ways
2013-03-04T08:37:18 < zippe> ds2: there is no consistency through the UI
2013-03-04T08:37:20 < emeb_mac> I've used valid, orcad, allegro, geda, kicad
2013-03-04T08:37:33 < zippe> ds2: it has really bad affordance; lots and lots of clicking to get anything done
2013-03-04T08:37:40 < ds2> zippe: if you mean the GUI side
2013-03-04T08:37:48 < ds2> nice thing with eagle is you don't have to use the GUI
2013-03-04T08:38:02 < zippe> ds2: much of the functionality is buried in a huge directory / ftp archive full of scripts
2013-03-04T08:38:26 < emeb_mac> zippe: what do you like?
2013-03-04T08:38:28 < zippe> ds2: sure, if you feel like typing everything, knock yourself out
2013-03-04T08:38:31 < ds2> uh... that is extensions
2013-03-04T08:38:36 < zippe> emeb_mac: proteus was good for me
2013-03-04T08:39:07 < zippe> eagle also produces hideous output
2013-03-04T08:39:30 < ds2> typing is mininal
2013-03-04T08:39:40 < zippe> so… no gui, no typing.
2013-03-04T08:39:52 < zippe> No hierarchial sheets, by the way
2013-03-04T08:39:59 < zippe> No way to move pieces of the schematic between sheets
2013-03-04T08:40:16 < zippe> To move a section of your schematic, you:
2013-03-04T08:40:19 < zippe> 1) select the move tool
2013-03-04T08:40:22 < ds2> no hierach. yes. no argument
2013-03-04T08:40:29 < zippe> 2) select the selection tool
2013-03-04T08:40:32 < dongs> even dicktrace has hierarchy
2013-03-04T08:40:33 < zippe> 3) select the region
2013-03-04T08:40:35  * pelrun uses kicad, you can all laugh now
2013-03-04T08:40:39 < dongs> and i actually used it, was quite nice
2013-03-04T08:40:42 < dongs> including in routing
2013-03-04T08:40:47 < zippe> 4) right-click somewhere and select "move group"
2013-03-04T08:40:48 < dongs> you can route one block
2013-03-04T08:40:55 < dongs> then copypaste n times from hierarchical blocks
2013-03-04T08:40:55 < zippe> ds2: is there a faster way?
2013-03-04T08:41:06 < zippe> ds2: how about locking groups together?
2013-03-04T08:41:15 < ds2> some of those clicks seems unneeded
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2013-03-04T08:41:20 < zippe> which ones?
2013-03-04T08:41:47 < zippe> ds2: no shove-routing in the PCB editor
2013-03-04T08:41:50 < ds2> not sure, I don't have it in front of me.. I just don't recall that many clicks
2013-03-04T08:41:53 < zippe> ds2: no bus routing
2013-03-04T08:41:59 < zippe> ds2: no live DRC
2013-03-04T08:42:01 < ds2> eagle 6 supposely has bus routing
2013-03-04T08:42:17 < zippe> ds2: to draw polygons, you hit the "ratsnest optimise" button
2013-03-04T08:42:23 < zippe> seriously, no live ratsnest optimisation?
2013-03-04T08:42:25 < ds2> if it is like any of hte other live crap I have seen, I don't want it
2013-03-04T08:42:32 < zippe> no other way to draw polygons?
2013-03-04T08:43:07 < zippe> When routing, you can *only* route from a node in the net that has an airwire
2013-03-04T08:43:31 < zippe> So to route from somewhere else, first you have to rip up a trace that connects to the starting point you want to route from.
2013-03-04T08:43:39 < zippe> Shit, I could go on like this for hours.
2013-03-04T08:43:43 < zippe> Eagle is *garbage*
2013-03-04T08:44:09 < ds2> eagle is better then the other crap out there
2013-03-04T08:44:26 < ds2> it does what I want and it integrates with other things
2013-03-04T08:44:28 < zippe> What "the other crap"? and on what criteria?
2013-03-04T08:44:40 < emeb_mac> ds2: ever looked at diptrace? I'm considering it now...
2013-03-04T08:44:43 < ds2> altium.. it is too locked in
2013-03-04T08:44:51 < ds2> emeb_mac: is there a linux version?
2013-03-04T08:44:58 < zippe> Because I've only been designing boards (of and on, I'll admit) since the late 1980s when I was using Autotrax
2013-03-04T08:45:14 < emeb_mac> ds2: not specifically - they say it runs under Wine tho. (not impressed by that)
2013-03-04T08:45:22 < zippe> And Eagle is worse today than Autotrax for Windows was in 1995.
2013-03-04T08:45:32 < dongs> ds2: it "runs" in lunix.
2013-03-04T08:46:24 < zippe> ds2: I just finished a 6-layer design using Eagle (not my choice).
2013-03-04T08:46:35 < zippe> ds2: so I'm not exactly a dilettante here. 8)
2013-03-04T08:48:31 < ds2> I find it decent enough to buy it so...
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2013-03-04T09:24:51 < pelrun> ...I have to manually specify my heap size?
2013-03-04T09:24:52 < pelrun> what
2013-03-04T09:25:05  * pelrun is beginning to get pissed off at this ide
2013-03-04T09:27:02 < pelrun> JUST USE WHATEVER RAM IS LEFT OVER DUMBASS
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2013-03-04T10:13:11 < R2COM> hmm I am still thinking of trying CADSTAR
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2013-03-04T10:45:16 < dongs> haha
2013-03-04T10:58:41 < R2COM> what
2013-03-04T10:59:03 < dongs> (cadstar/zuken)
2013-03-04T10:59:27 < R2COM> what about that
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2013-03-04T16:02:19 < alexn> how can i send sdio data wtihout dma in 4 bit mode.
2013-03-04T16:04:57 < alexn> i can send commands on the cmd line but no data.
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2013-03-04T16:20:18 < rigid> did anyone ever experience flashing a piece of firmware that seems to break the device in a way that it's not accessable via JTAG anymore?
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2013-03-04T16:22:13 < gnomad> it's common enough to have a name: "bricking"
2013-03-04T16:23:22 < rigid> gnomad: bricking by software so that you can't do JTAG access anymore?
2013-03-04T16:23:38 < rigid> gnomad: i know the term "bricking" as in "unbrick possible only via jtag"
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2013-03-04T16:31:01 < gxti> really bricking is relative to the skills and capabilities of the person saying it
2013-03-04T16:31:10 < gxti> it means *i* can't fix it
2013-03-04T16:32:12 < rigid> is there a way to halt the stm32 right after reset without jtag? can this be done using the bootp/bootm pins?
2013-03-04T16:32:22 < gxti> i almost bricked a dspic30 by attempting to use the rated clock speed, but i managed to torture it with lower VCC until it somehow managed to reflash
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2013-03-04T16:36:56 < jpa-> rigid: one way to brick it that way is to go into deepsleep right after boot - that turns off the debug interface
2013-03-04T16:37:23 < jpa-> rigid: you should be able to connect while NRST is held low, but that depends on your debugging tool
2013-03-04T16:37:38 < gxti> boot pins seem like a reasonable solution as well
2013-03-04T16:37:46 < rigid> hm... that could be, i tried to implement USB suspend with the ST firmware
2013-03-04T16:37:49 < jpa-> boot pins are an easy solution if you can use that
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2013-03-04T16:38:11 < jpa-> you can also flash a new firmware with e.g. st-link if you are very snappy with reset button
2013-03-04T16:38:16 < rigid> jpa-: i tried flashing while holding the reset button but it didn't work with openocd+wiggler jtag if
2013-03-04T16:38:41 < jpa-> rigid: yes, you cannot flash *while* it is in reset, because the flash interface is in reset then also
2013-03-04T16:38:51 < jpa-> instead you need to start the flash, release reset, continue with flash
2013-03-04T16:39:03 < gxti> ah
2013-03-04T16:39:08 < rigid> ah
2013-03-04T16:39:09 < gxti> if only BMP used reset at all :P
2013-03-04T16:39:12 < jpa-> if you time your reset button carefully, you can manage it with a few tries.. or you could add a sleep() in openocd source
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2013-03-04T16:39:25 < gxti> openocd scripts can sleep
2013-03-04T16:39:52 < jpa-> yeah.. if you can halt from openocd script and then sleep before starting flash, it could work
2013-03-04T16:40:00 < jpa-> then just release the reset button while it is sleeping
2013-03-04T16:40:04 < rigid> hm... that is the output of openocd (working and unworking) https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5082575
2013-03-04T16:40:18 < rigid> i don't know where to sleep since it fails to halt
2013-03-04T16:40:52 < jpa-> rigid: does it succeed to halt if you hold down reset?
2013-03-04T16:40:57 < jpa-> (it should)
2013-03-04T16:41:28 < rigid> ehrm... now it suddenly worked... first time after 2 hours of fiddling... trying another bricked board
2013-03-04T16:41:39 < jpa-> (also btw, st's own stlinkv2 software on windows does this properly, so if you have access to it..)
2013-03-04T16:44:03 < rigid> ok i found out how to unbrick it: unpower -> hold reset -> program -> during wait-for-halt release reset button -> success
2013-03-04T16:44:14 < rigid> jpa-: thanks a lot, you gave the right hint
2013-03-04T16:44:19 < jpa-> np
2013-03-04T16:44:40 < jpa-> now imagine how fun it was to do that on a board without reset button (nor NRST on the SWD header) :)
2013-03-04T16:44:44 < rigid> phew... stuff like this is _really_ annoying
2013-03-04T16:45:05 < rigid> ugh... nasty
2013-03-04T16:45:25 < jpa-> but it took only 2-3 tries, with a wire shorting NRST to ground
2013-03-04T16:45:33 < gxti> and that's why i'm not going to do a 3-pin debug header :p
2013-03-04T16:45:45 < jpa-> me neither.. anymore :D
2013-03-04T16:45:47 < gxti> as tempting as it is
2013-03-04T16:46:34 < gxti> i do often just solder down 3 pins though, but i'm looking to make a "prop clip" style pogo pin clip so i don't have to solder anything
2013-03-04T16:47:06 < gxti> better than tag connect though because there's still the option of soldering the header in
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2013-03-04T17:36:09 < dongs> http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/74739_239857022786605_989696887_n.jpg Laurenceb would hit it
2013-03-04T17:36:47 < Erlkoenig> do they show a diameter or length with their hands?
2013-03-04T17:37:00 < dongs> no fuckin idea
2013-03-04T17:37:38 < gxti> second from left is ok, maybe just less worse
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2013-03-04T17:44:27 < zyp> 15:39:09 < gxti> if only BMP used reset at all :P
2013-03-04T17:44:34 < zyp> that's an easy fix
2013-03-04T17:44:46 < dongs> bladerf on sale for 450
2013-03-04T17:44:56 < zyp> the code is all in place, the main missing part is that the reset control pin is not set to output
2013-03-04T17:45:01 <+Steffanx> Who wants that dongs ?
2013-03-04T17:45:13 < dongs> unsure
2013-03-04T17:45:20 < zyp> dongs wants one if he can pay with toy money
2013-03-04T17:45:33 < dongs> ya
2013-03-04T17:46:34 < emeb> Bitcoin!
2013-03-04T17:47:02 <+Steffanx> That's no toy money
2013-03-04T17:47:10 < dongs> haha buttcoin
2013-03-04T17:47:59 < emeb> sounds like something Cornholio would know about.
2013-03-04T17:48:47 < emeb> (someone pointed out recently that knowing about Cornholio marks me as old)
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2013-03-04T17:49:32 < emeb> wb Steffanx
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2013-03-04T18:00:51 < Tectu> dongs, OSD hard to do with VGA?
2013-03-04T18:04:18 < dongs> you mean overlay on top of vga? i dunno maybe at lowrez easy but probably not > 640x480?
2013-03-04T18:06:27 < Tectu> Okay
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2013-03-04T18:06:34 < Tectu> what was your OSD screen? Some composit thing?
2013-03-04T18:06:38 < dongs> yeah cvbs
2013-03-04T18:06:40 < Tectu> S-Video or what is it called?
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2013-03-04T18:06:52 < dongs> composite. not evn svideo.
2013-03-04T18:07:20 < Tectu> how hard is it to do? I guess the hardest part is the synchronisation?
2013-03-04T18:07:27 -!- _BJFreeman is now known as BJfreeman
2013-03-04T18:07:36 < dongs> well if you wanna do it ghetto without external hardware its probably annoying
2013-03-04T18:07:44 < dongs> but with sync separator its just... nothign else to do.
2013-03-04T18:07:59 < dongs> just capture sync, wait x clocks then start clockign overlay shit out.
2013-03-04T18:08:19 < Tectu> it does not do some transparency shit, right? just override the pixels values?
2013-03-04T18:08:45 < dongs> yes, the real gay way is pull up existing video signal high or low
2013-03-04T18:08:57 < Tectu> heh
2013-03-04T18:08:57 < dongs> slightly less gay way is route through an analog switch ic
2013-03-04T18:09:07 < dongs> pull up = you can't do proper white/black levels
2013-03-04T18:10:13 < dongs> sleep time
2013-03-04T18:10:21 <+Steffanx> have fun
2013-03-04T18:10:27 < Tectu> enjoy
2013-03-04T18:14:01 < gxti> lol s-video
2013-03-04T18:15:37 < zyp> heh
2013-03-04T18:16:49 < zyp> well, strictly speaking s-video is the better quality option compared to composite
2013-03-04T18:17:19 < zyp> considering how the signal is basicly the same, except s-video has seperate wires for luma and chroma
2013-03-04T18:17:24 < gxti> yes, but why bother
2013-03-04T18:17:39 < gxti> if you're using composite in 2013 it's because quality is irrelevant
2013-03-04T18:17:45 < zyp> true :)
2013-03-04T18:21:27 < karlp> because you want to interface with rpi!
2013-03-04T18:24:01 < BJfreeman> or the imx223
2013-03-04T18:24:20 < BJfreeman> mostly the cameras are composite
2013-03-04T18:25:31 < BJfreeman> so in my case I just want to impose text on the composite
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2013-03-04T20:07:08 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/1JmPf.mp4
2013-03-04T20:08:33 <+Steffanx> What do you want me to say?
2013-03-04T20:08:42 <+Steffanx> An almost success or an almost fail?
2013-03-04T20:09:14 < emeb> looks like it stays nice and level
2013-03-04T20:09:58 <+Steffanx> Yeah, too bad for the drift towards us or is that what it should do?
2013-03-04T20:10:35 < emeb> pfft. baby steps. orientation first, position later.
2013-03-04T20:10:40 < zyp> :)
2013-03-04T20:10:55 < zyp> it's still gyro only, so it's not self-leveling
2013-03-04T20:10:58 <+Steffanx> Baby steps.. go away with your baby steps emeb
2013-03-04T20:11:23 < emeb> "I want it all, and I want it NOW!" - Steffanx
2013-03-04T20:11:35 <+Steffanx> Who doesn't?
2013-03-04T20:11:40 < zyp> and I don't have it hooked to the rc receiver yet, just controlling over usb
2013-03-04T20:11:50 <+Steffanx> It has to do with what i expect from zyp, emeb :)
2013-03-04T20:11:59 < zyp> i.e. throttle only from midi controller :p
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2013-03-04T20:12:26 < emeb> zyp: when you get your RF working you should still use the MIDI controller for user input.
2013-03-04T20:12:47 < zyp> why? :p
2013-03-04T20:12:48 < emeb> forget joysticks, etc. - show up on the field with a knob box.
2013-03-04T20:12:50 <+Steffanx> Just because it looks cool?
2013-03-04T20:12:56 < zyp> :p
2013-03-04T20:13:11 <+Steffanx> You can play some sounds with the motors ..
2013-03-04T20:13:15 < zyp> hmm, I think one of the other devices I have got an xy pad
2013-03-04T20:13:17 < emeb> better yet, get a MIDI keyboard controller. Different keys mean different commands...
2013-03-04T20:13:28 < zyp> I have the entire korg nanoseries
2013-03-04T20:13:38 < zyp> which includes some poor excuse for a keyboard :p
2013-03-04T20:13:38 < emeb> "collect 'em all!"
2013-03-04T20:13:50 <+Steffanx> zyp makes music?
2013-03-04T20:13:53 <+Steffanx> *composes
2013-03-04T20:13:53 < zyp> no
2013-03-04T20:14:08 <+Steffanx> So why you have an entire serie?
2013-03-04T20:14:31 < zyp> I was mostly just interested in the sliders, for purposes like this, but I found the kit for a nice price in japan once
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2013-03-04T20:22:56 <+Steffanx> I accept the "because i can" reason zyp :)
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2013-03-04T22:21:11 < Laurenceb_> http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2012/121011_1.html
2013-03-04T22:21:13 < Laurenceb_> wtf
2013-03-04T22:21:47 < emeb> you brits and yer royalty. :)
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2013-03-04T22:40:46 < Tectu> dongs, you made 3d cube shit on display, right? What MCU?
2013-03-04T22:40:52 < Tectu> not sure if F1 suitable
2013-03-04T22:42:52 < gxti> that was f3 or f4 i think
2013-03-04T22:43:24 < gxti> my Laurenceb_ url filter is not working :(
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2013-03-04T22:43:59 < Laurenceb_> http://www.goat.cx
2013-03-04T22:44:54 < mervaka> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=heino&tbm=isch
2013-03-04T22:46:08 < Erlkoenig> yeah german "fold" singer
2013-03-04T22:46:11 < Erlkoenig> *folk
2013-03-04T22:46:28 < Erlkoenig> he made an album where he covered some rock bands including Rammstein.. veeery funny
2013-03-04T22:46:58 < mervaka> album covers alone are hilariously cheesy
2013-03-04T22:47:02 < Laurenceb_> sheeet
2013-03-04T22:47:12 < Laurenceb_> where are my shock site links :(
2013-03-04T22:47:23 < Laurenceb_> i need to find the bikehut one...
2013-03-04T22:47:43 < mervaka> if you look hard enough for "martini"
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2013-03-04T23:21:57 < Tectu> what is this crap man... youtube does now "processing..." a 19 seconds video I uploaded for about 3 hours
2013-03-04T23:25:51 < Tectu> make it stap!
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2013-03-04T23:39:58 < Erlkoenig> http://idle.slashdot.org/story/13/03/04/1434205/   arduino!
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--- Day changed Tue Mar 05 2013
2013-03-05T00:02:12 <+Steffanx> useless crap Erlkoenig
2013-03-05T00:02:23 < Erlkoenig> but arduino!
2013-03-05T00:02:26 <+Steffanx> useless crap Erlkoenig
2013-03-05T00:02:30 < Erlkoenig> but arduino!
2013-03-05T00:02:35 <+Steffanx> useless crap Erlkoenig
2013-03-05T00:02:40 < Erlkoenig> but arduino!
2013-03-05T00:02:47 <+Steffanx> but your ass
2013-03-05T00:03:36 < Erlkoenig> is so pretty
2013-03-05T00:04:17 <+Steffanx> Too bad it turned out you're not female
2013-03-05T00:04:34 < Erlkoenig> my friend loves it :3
2013-03-05T00:04:49 <+Steffanx> your friend as in boyfriend?
2013-03-05T00:05:23 < Erlkoenig> sure :D
2013-03-05T00:06:38 <+Steffanx> Gays are scary, so you are scary
2013-03-05T00:06:57 < Erlkoenig> ima dangerous!
2013-03-05T00:07:03 <+Steffanx> <backToSerious>
2013-03-05T00:09:31 < gxti> you're not being helpful
2013-03-05T00:09:56 < qyx_> i was about to write exactly the same..
2013-03-05T00:11:56 <+Steffanx> NO YOU ARE HELPFUL
2013-03-05T00:13:49 < Tectu> Steffanx, I saw that...
2013-03-05T00:16:06 <+Steffanx> That means your glasses still do what they're made for
2013-03-05T00:17:31 <+Steffanx> Sometimes  you are really as childish as i am, mr gxti
2013-03-05T00:17:52 < gxti> nuh uh
2013-03-05T00:21:23 < Laurenceb_> where is dongs when you need him
2013-03-05T00:21:34 < zyp> asleep.
2013-03-05T00:21:43 < Laurenceb_> antitroll trolling is needed
2013-03-05T00:22:32 < Laurenceb_> afterall he created http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=last%20measure
2013-03-05T00:22:43 < zyp> I'm aware
2013-03-05T00:24:32 < BrainDamage> are you still butthurt over that?
2013-03-05T00:25:02 < GargantuaSauce> i think the solution is to port LM to the arduino platform
2013-03-05T00:25:24 < GargantuaSauce> and through shenanigans, cause it to be distributed as the default example project?
2013-03-05T00:27:58 < Laurenceb_> lolz
2013-03-05T00:28:35 < Laurenceb_> might be possible to do something over usb...
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2013-03-05T00:28:44 < Laurenceb_> but it used ftdi :(
2013-03-05T00:29:03 < GargantuaSauce> i mean obviously the effect will be slightly diminished if it's just blinking an LED ("hey everybody i'm looking at gay porno" in morse code?) but autodetecting peripherals should make it reasonably effective
2013-03-05T00:30:25 < Laurenceb_> http://www.b3tards.com/u/97edbdbced67e672867d/recycler.jpg
2013-03-05T00:30:27 < BrainDamage> no, new ones don't use ftdi
2013-03-05T00:30:50 < BrainDamage> the uno have another atmega as usb<-> serial
2013-03-05T00:30:58 < Laurenceb_> might work then
2013-03-05T00:31:04 < BrainDamage> and afaik, the ones with cortex, even use hw usb
2013-03-05T00:31:08 < Tectu> <spam> http://chibios-gfx.com/documentation/gdisp/usage/pictures </spam>
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2013-03-05T00:43:30 < Laurenceb_> nice new site
2013-03-05T00:43:34 < Laurenceb_> pity about youtube
2013-03-05T00:43:58 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, you didn't know the new site yet?
2013-03-05T00:44:01 < Tectu> and thanks :)
2013-03-05T00:44:31 < Laurenceb_> the flickering during update with the graphs, is that the camera shutter?
2013-03-05T00:44:49 < mervaka> aruduino, with a silent prefixed 't'
2013-03-05T00:45:04 <+Steffanx> .cc
2013-03-05T00:45:25 < mervaka> :)
2013-03-05T00:45:37 < Tectu> Laurenceb, yes, something like that. The display stays steady
2013-03-05T00:45:49 < mervaka> takes the challenge out of coding tbh :/
2013-03-05T00:45:54 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, also it looks WAY better in RL since sucky camera here
2013-03-05T00:46:06 < Laurenceb_> cool
2013-03-05T00:46:14 < Laurenceb_> are demos with an F4?
2013-03-05T00:46:59 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, only the old mandelbrot:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1ihO3br15Q
2013-03-05T00:48:19 < GargantuaSauce> i still havent gotten around to making a proper gradient for that thing
2013-03-05T00:48:34 < GargantuaSauce> it could look so much cooler :(
2013-03-05T00:49:20 < Tectu> GargantuaSauce, what thing?
2013-03-05T00:49:23 < Tectu> the mandelbrot?
2013-03-05T00:49:26 < GargantuaSauce> ya
2013-03-05T00:50:41 < Tectu> let me know when you did
2013-03-05T00:50:55 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, I did the same without FPU... damn I died waiting for the next frame :D
2013-03-05T00:51:17 < Tectu> I didn't upload any video with FPU turned off because I didn't want to fill up google's entire harddiscs
2013-03-05T00:51:40 < GargantuaSauce> would probably be tolerable if you had none of the convergent region onscreen
2013-03-05T00:51:53 < Tectu> probably
2013-03-05T00:51:58 < Tectu> the demo is not supposed to show mandelbrot
2013-03-05T00:52:04 < Tectu> rater to introduce ChibiOS/GFX :P
2013-03-05T00:52:13 < Tectu> which is basicly drawPixel() here
2013-03-05T00:52:20 < GargantuaSauce> i suppoooooose :V
2013-03-05T00:52:28 < GargantuaSauce> it does show how ridiculously fast the f4 is though
2013-03-05T00:52:50 < Erlkoenig> http://games.2g2s.de/?page_id=71 <--- did a mandelbrot renderer too
2013-03-05T00:53:07 < Erlkoenig> but for PC, with multicore support
2013-03-05T00:53:15 < GargantuaSauce> i have a webgl one kicking around somewhere
2013-03-05T00:53:27 < zyp> I wrote one in GLSL
2013-03-05T00:53:57 < GargantuaSauce> http://xn--d-bga.su/durr.htm this is similar but with a different polynomial
2013-03-05T00:53:59 < GargantuaSauce> and mostly copypasta
2013-03-05T00:54:19 < zyp> oh, nice
2013-03-05T00:54:43 < GargantuaSauce> the iterated function is actually a 2d dipole field
2013-03-05T00:54:50 < GargantuaSauce> i have made some pretty wild fractals with that equation
2013-03-05T00:54:51 < Erlkoenig> ... i wrote mine just to take advantage of my newly bought multicore cpu \o/
2013-03-05T00:56:15 < GargantuaSauce> compared to a modern gpu you may as well use an abacus :J
2013-03-05T00:57:16 < zyp> :)
2013-03-05T00:58:21 < mervaka> GargantuaSauce: phased arrays?
2013-03-05T00:58:29 < mervaka> i heard dipole field
2013-03-05T00:59:33 < GargantuaSauce> just in 2d, solely as a numerical construct running on the gpu
2013-03-05T00:59:50 < GargantuaSauce> when iterated it provides some lovely chaotic behaviour
2013-03-05T01:00:32 < GargantuaSauce> because of its phase-space bifurcations or some other ridiculous terms i have a loose handle on
2013-03-05T01:00:38 < mervaka> sweet
2013-03-05T01:00:46 < mervaka> this is a project i've wanted to do for a while
2013-03-05T01:01:05 < GargantuaSauce> yeah i wanna try getting into rf stuff sometime but it's scary
2013-03-05T01:01:12 < mervaka> either a 1x16 or 4x4 array
2013-03-05T01:01:24 < mervaka> but i need 16 amplifiers
2013-03-05T01:01:26 < mervaka> etc
2013-03-05T01:02:53 < Laurenceb_> i did mandlebrot on ti-86+
2013-03-05T01:03:14 < GargantuaSauce> i guess that is close enough to an abacus for my rhetorical purposes
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2013-03-05T01:05:03 < Laurenceb_> http://chibios-gfx.com/user-projects
2013-03-05T01:05:05 < Laurenceb_> oops
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2013-03-05T01:08:33 < GargantuaSauce> http://xn--d-bga.su/dipolefractal.png obscenely large image alert
2013-03-05T01:09:04 < GargantuaSauce> same equation as durr.htm, iterated using a different technique (think buddhabrot vs mandelbrot)
2013-03-05T01:09:48 < dirty_d> wtf http://xn--d-bga.su/
2013-03-05T01:10:06 < GargantuaSauce> is there a problem?
2013-03-05T01:11:42 < dirty_d> no problem
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2013-03-05T01:18:15 < GargantuaSauce> is it the tld or the punycode that you find strange....or the content? 8)
2013-03-05T01:18:56 < dirty_d> content
2013-03-05T01:19:05 < BrainDamage> Gargantuasauce: why not doing vector?
2013-03-05T01:19:56 < GargantuaSauce> a vector version of the above image?
2013-03-05T01:20:14 < BrainDamage> yes
2013-03-05T01:20:16 < GargantuaSauce> because the method of its generation is fundamentally bitmap-based
2013-03-05T01:20:50 < GargantuaSauce> 2 8192x8192 textures, draw a quad to one using a shader that samples the other, switch em
2013-03-05T01:21:43 < GargantuaSauce> i've definitely been meaning to make stupid geometry fractals using newer opengl features (transform feedback) but havent gotten to it yet
2013-03-05T01:22:00 < GargantuaSauce> too busy writing terrible embedded c and making derptacular robots
2013-03-05T01:26:19 < GargantuaSauce> though the two concepts will be thoroughly combined if i ever get around to driving my laser galvos with the f4
2013-03-05T01:26:47 < GargantuaSauce> because other than putting dicks on distant buildings all the fun i'd get out of doing that would be projecting more stupid fractals :V
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2013-03-05T01:31:40 < Laurenceb_> laser galvos from ebay?
2013-03-05T01:31:51 < Laurenceb_> i have some - still need to try them out "in the wild"
2013-03-05T01:32:00  * Laurenceb_ zzz
2013-03-05T01:32:20 < GargantuaSauce> yeah they're just 25kpps or something
2013-03-05T01:32:30 < GargantuaSauce> so fancy animations are probably out of the question
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2013-03-05T02:11:20 < dongs> Tectu: f4, but emeb also did same on f3.
2013-03-05T02:12:59 < emeb> the cube calcs don't push the CPU very hard.
2013-03-05T02:13:21 < emeb> the limiting factor seems to be the SPI bandwidth of the display.
2013-03-05T02:19:23 < dongs> yeah
2013-03-05T02:20:16 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/J7XCPAH.jpg made a new desklight today
2013-03-05T02:20:20 < GargantuaSauce> still havent gotten around to moving my lcd from bitbanged to hsmc
2013-03-05T02:21:17 < GargantuaSauce> that is a very incoherent whiteboard you got there
2013-03-05T02:22:06 < GargantuaSauce> also the aliasing on the wire there confuses the hell out of me
2013-03-05T02:22:10 < GargantuaSauce> was it vibrating or something?!
2013-03-05T02:22:31 < dongs> haha
2013-03-05T02:26:10 < qyx_> why are you also writing on the wall?
2013-03-05T02:26:55 < dongs> yea yea yea
2013-03-05T02:37:14 < R2COM> I cant find any picture with boobs on a wall
2013-03-05T02:41:21 < rigid> does anyone know what pInformation->Current_Feature should be set in the usb reset routine?
2013-03-05T02:42:15 < rigid> in the virtual com port example from ST, it is set to ConfigDescriptor[7] which points to bmAttributes... that sounds wrong to me
2013-03-05T02:44:28 < rigid> in DEVICE_INFO, the field "Current_Feature" is undocumented :)
2013-03-05T02:47:28 < rigid> ah no, further investigation reveals that this is actually correct... just very poorly named
2013-03-05T02:57:42 <+Steffanx> meh, nothing beats a good old light bulb dongs
2013-03-05T02:58:07 <+Steffanx> Except for the sun of course :P
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2013-03-05T04:28:32 < flop> hi emeb
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2013-03-05T04:37:24 < emeb_mac> hi
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2013-03-05T04:42:42 < flop> I've got my first led to blink on my fpga board
2013-03-05T04:42:58 < emeb_mac> \o/
2013-03-05T04:43:18  * rigid throws confetti
2013-03-05T04:43:35 < Erlkoenig> using synchronized counter, hopefully
2013-03-05T04:43:38 < flop> I thought it would be harder than programming a uC
2013-03-05T04:43:51 < Erlkoenig> not neccessarily harder, but... "unusual" ;-)
2013-03-05T04:43:58 < rigid> flop: are you using VHDL?
2013-03-05T04:44:08 < emeb_mac> hah - easy
2013-03-05T04:44:13 < flop> Erlkoenig: I used the input crystal
2013-03-05T04:44:31 < Erlkoenig> flop: yup, and what to divide the frequency?
2013-03-05T04:44:32 < flop> no verilog for now
2013-03-05T04:44:40 < emeb_mac> +1 for verilog
2013-03-05T04:46:42 < flop> Erlkoenig: actually I cheated. I just used a piece of code from internet :P but at least I figured how to get it working in ISE and how to program in onto the fpga
2013-03-05T04:47:13 < Erlkoenig> cheater..:!
2013-03-05T04:47:20 < Erlkoenig> what development board do you use?
2013-03-05T04:47:29 < emeb_mac> wise use of resources at hand.
2013-03-05T04:47:36 < flop> sp605
2013-03-05T04:47:53 < emeb_mac> now, start modifying. make it do something cool!
2013-03-05T04:47:54 < Erlkoenig> oooh Spartan6
2013-03-05T04:48:04 < Erlkoenig> make a PCIe interface
2013-03-05T04:48:13 < flop> yeah. any idea of what next I could implement?
2013-03-05T04:48:15 < qyx_> make a bitcoin miner!
2013-03-05T04:48:19 < Erlkoenig> wow, sp605 = heavy monster
2013-03-05T04:48:30 < flop> no PCIe for me yet :P
2013-03-05T04:49:06 < GargantuaSauce> what peripherals do you have handy
2013-03-05T04:49:08 < Erlkoenig> flop: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Lauflicht.gif <-- make LED's do this
2013-03-05T04:49:19 < Erlkoenig> then do it kightrider style
2013-03-05T04:49:34 < flop> qyx_: that's a nice idea, but it will have to wait I guess
2013-03-05T04:50:05 < flop> GargantuaSauce: you mean onboard pheripherals?
2013-03-05T04:50:08 < Erlkoenig> http://games.2g2s.de/elektronik/knightrider.mov  <-  "knightrider style"
2013-03-05T04:50:24 < GargantuaSauce> no i mean anything you can easily attach it to
2013-03-05T04:50:24 < rigid> Erlkoenig: or do some simple USB->high-speed-SPI-something-protocol bridge and use niftyled to do even cooler ;)
2013-03-05T04:50:33 < GargantuaSauce> hdmi would be cool
2013-03-05T04:50:41 < flop> Erlkoenig: good idea. I might try it next :)
2013-03-05T04:51:05 < Erlkoenig> http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/EK-S6-SP605-G-image.htm   looks like it could control a space shuttle
2013-03-05T04:52:21 < Erlkoenig> i once had the Spartan-3A Starter Kit... then i overvoltage'd it :(
2013-03-05T04:52:39 < rigid> doing a simple larson scanner with an FPGA monster is... well... overkill :-P
2013-03-05T04:53:03 < GargantuaSauce> do one that uses every single gpio
2013-03-05T04:53:08 < Erlkoenig> rigid: it's the "hello world 2" of fpga ^^
2013-03-05T04:53:16 < rigid> lol... ok then :)
2013-03-05T04:53:32 < Erlkoenig> do insane R/C model SDR
2013-03-05T04:54:11 < rigid> wow, one of that sp605 should be able to drive a complete LED wall :-O
2013-03-05T04:54:27 < Erlkoenig> LED's... boring ^.^
2013-03-05T04:54:59 < flop> GargantuaSauce: There's only 4 gpio on header pin, otherwise I'll have to get a FMC debugger daughter board
2013-03-05T04:55:17 < rigid> forget USB... 1000 Tri-Speed Ethernet
2013-03-05T04:55:20 < GargantuaSauce> oh well that sucks
2013-03-05T04:55:44 < Erlkoenig> and that where FPGA's are so strong with parallel i/o...
2013-03-05T04:56:01 < GargantuaSauce> so many dev boards just ignore half the chip's peripherals
2013-03-05T04:56:03 < GargantuaSauce> it's a travesty
2013-03-05T04:56:10 < rigid> Erlkoenig: a LED wall? saying that gives proof that you don't own one ;)
2013-03-05T04:56:26 < GargantuaSauce> also is that a CF slot?
2013-03-05T04:56:31 < GargantuaSauce> who the hell uses CF?!
2013-03-05T04:56:42 < Erlkoenig> who needs LED (walls) if you got this: http://www.original-bankerslamp.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/berliner_messing-w299grb.jpg
2013-03-05T04:56:45 < rigid> CF is practically IDe
2013-03-05T04:56:48 < flop> It uses CF for configuration
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2013-03-05T04:57:21 < GargantuaSauce> anyway make something video-ey
2013-03-05T04:57:27 < GargantuaSauce> is that sram on there beside it?
2013-03-05T04:57:38 < GargantuaSauce> do the game of life
2013-03-05T04:57:41 < flop> no, ddr3
2013-03-05T04:57:43 < dongs> https://youtube.com/watch?v=EPIGEnEBmyA
2013-03-05T04:57:44 < Erlkoenig> http://games.2g2s.de/elektronik/vga.jpg   this happened when i tried VGA output with FPGA
2013-03-05T04:57:46 < GargantuaSauce> oh even better
2013-03-05T04:57:51 < dongs> ^ made with spartan6
2013-03-05T04:58:01 < GargantuaSauce> close enough.jpg
2013-03-05T04:58:24 < Erlkoenig> was some timing error, fixed it ^^
2013-03-05T04:58:36 < flop> which board is that?
2013-03-05T04:58:38 < rigid> Erlkoenig: stylish but not rare... this is much cooler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYnPrflapXk :-D
2013-03-05T04:58:43 < Erlkoenig> flop: Spartan-3A Starter
2013-03-05T04:59:02 < Erlkoenig> rigid: lame :D
2013-03-05T04:59:04 < dirty_d> i wish i knew where the hell my tracing paper was so i could fail at making this pcb
2013-03-05T04:59:18 < Erlkoenig> i do not get all that LED craze
2013-03-05T04:59:33 < Erlkoenig> my electric torch uses a classic bulb
2013-03-05T04:59:39 < rigid> how... what? 7-segment displays rule!
2013-03-05T05:00:01 < rigid> much cooler than all that touchy OLED gesture crap :-P
2013-03-05T05:00:32 < Erlkoenig> oh man, that old picture reminds me of teh old timez
2013-03-05T05:00:58 < Erlkoenig> i did all my FPGA fun stuff while i was supposed to learn for schools' final exam... didn't learn a minute, passed anyways
2013-03-05T05:01:23 < GargantuaSauce> i am convinced that that is what school is actually for
2013-03-05T05:01:39 < GargantuaSauce> to provide an environment frustratingly limiting enough for you to want to learn interesting shit on the side
2013-03-05T05:01:53 < emeb_mac> lol
2013-03-05T05:02:05 < Erlkoenig> we used to do our LAN parties at that desk on the pic, in my parents house... AoE and CS:S... seems so long ago :D
2013-03-05T05:02:08 < GargantuaSauce> while all those other chumps concentrate on the obvious material and get good grades
2013-03-05T05:02:15 < GargantuaSauce> losers
2013-03-05T05:02:21 < R2COM> heh
2013-03-05T05:02:59 < emeb_mac> Gargantuasauce: and then they become business majors.
2013-03-05T05:03:05 < R2COM> what about those whoe get good grades and at the same time do the shit
2013-03-05T05:03:21 < GargantuaSauce> they are thes ones to truly fear
2013-03-05T05:03:27 < emeb_mac> while the folks doing the extracurricular stuff become real engineers.
2013-03-05T05:03:50 < Erlkoenig> and become daclared as nerds
2013-03-05T05:03:53 < R2COM> the only thing I personally think is kinda too much for electrical engineering stuff is PhD...
2013-03-05T05:04:02 < emeb_mac> loud & proud.
2013-03-05T05:04:31 < R2COM> this thing is probably applied more to some disciplines likke physics, math etc.. but not to applied stuff like EE
2013-03-05T05:04:40 < flop> R2COM: not if you wanna design nanocomputers :P
2013-03-05T05:04:45 < R2COM> meh...
2013-03-05T05:04:53 < R2COM> I dont think so.
2013-03-05T05:06:05 < GargantuaSauce> i should really do a masters
2013-03-05T05:06:12 < GargantuaSauce> i just cant decide what field :(
2013-03-05T05:06:23 < flop> GargantuaSauce: EE is good
2013-03-05T05:06:36 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx was the guy from the netherlands, right?
2013-03-05T05:06:40 < GargantuaSauce> yeah i agree but don't quite feel i have the fundaments down
2013-03-05T05:06:45 < GargantuaSauce> my bachelors is in cs
2013-03-05T05:06:56 < R2COM> so go and study missing material then
2013-03-05T05:07:02 < GargantuaSauce> yeah i am doing that
2013-03-05T05:07:07 < GargantuaSauce> i am also LOATHE to specialize
2013-03-05T05:07:24 < GargantuaSauce> i want to keep my horizons broad....academia doesnt seem too good for that
2013-03-05T05:07:31 < R2COM> yeah
2013-03-05T05:07:32 < flop> GargantuaSauce: all you need are a few courses in electronics
2013-03-05T05:08:10 < R2COM> not few I guess... but yea.
2013-03-05T05:08:34 < GargantuaSauce> i am considering going and doing another undergraduate degree, probably mechatronics
2013-03-05T05:09:29 < GargantuaSauce> but at the same time that feels like throwing around a lot of money for stuff i can probably teach myself
2013-03-05T05:09:57 < flop> GargantuaSauce: get a masters then
2013-03-05T05:12:03 < rigid> is there a way I can get a backtrace with openocd + gdb?
2013-03-05T05:12:11 < GargantuaSauce> yes
2013-03-05T05:13:04 < GargantuaSauce> arm-none-eabi-gdb -ex "target remote localhost:3333" -ex "set remote hardware-watchpoint-limit 4" main.elf
2013-03-05T05:13:59 < rigid> hm, but how do the backtrace? if the code loops in the hardfault handler for example, whenever I press ctrl+c gdb seems to disconnect
2013-03-05T05:14:30 < GargantuaSauce> oh someone made a sweet script for that
2013-03-05T05:14:49 < GargantuaSauce> it was zippe i think
2013-03-05T05:14:50 < GargantuaSauce> http://codepad.org/5tJwUjik
2013-03-05T05:15:00 < rigid> i get "Remote communication error: Connection reset by peer." after pressing ctrl+c
2013-03-05T05:15:04 < rigid> ah
2013-03-05T05:15:53 < rigid> and in any other case? how can I stop execution without terminating the connection?
2013-03-05T05:16:13 < GargantuaSauce> with the openocd telnet interface
2013-03-05T05:16:38 < rigid> ahh
2013-03-05T05:16:38 < GargantuaSauce> the halt command i guess?
2013-03-05T05:16:41 < Erlkoenig> when using texane st-link, Ctrl+C interrupts execution...
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2013-03-05T05:16:47 < rigid> that script looks useful
2013-03-05T05:17:48 < GargantuaSauce> i havent put it to use yet but apparently it gets around a lot of the ways gdb will lie to you
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2013-03-05T08:25:54 < emeb_mac> lies, damn lies and gdb?
2013-03-05T08:27:20 < Gargantuasauce_> gnu deceiving bastard
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2013-03-05T10:28:49 < Robint91> hi all
2013-03-05T10:31:59 < zyp> hi
2013-03-05T10:32:13 < BJfreeman> hey from the other side of the pond
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2013-03-05T10:52:22 < Laurenceb_> wtf uk
2013-03-05T10:52:24 < Laurenceb_> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21659158
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2013-03-05T11:46:36 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/xYXjYrv.png HAHA ECLIPSE
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2013-03-05T11:48:04 < karlp> Gargantuasauce_: your julia fractal: http://xn--d-bga.su/durr.htm crashes my xserver :|
2013-03-05T11:49:23 < dongs> lunix failing, what a surprise
2013-03-05T11:54:36 < zyp> «yo dawg»
2013-03-05T11:57:06 < karlp> Gargantuasauce_: what's the point of "set remote hardware-watchpoint-limit 4" in your openocd connection?
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2013-03-05T12:36:11 < Tectu> dongs
2013-03-05T12:36:38 < dongs> sup
2013-03-05T12:38:02 < dongs> well, i dont have all day, if you have a question ask it or else im gonna go afk
2013-03-05T12:39:16 < karlp> autoseeking furry kawaii?
2013-03-05T12:39:24 < Laurenceb> hes trolling you
2013-03-05T12:39:26 < dongs> no thats what Tectu does
2013-03-05T12:39:37 < karlp> always full krazy
2013-03-05T12:39:47 < Laurenceb> nah he takes voyeur photos on trains
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2013-03-05T12:40:06 < Tectu> dongs, sorry, just got the answer. but thanks anyways!
2013-03-05T12:40:18 < Tectu> I had a question - solved myself
2013-03-05T12:40:20 < dongs> oh
2013-03-05T12:40:23 < dongs> kk
2013-03-05T12:40:25 < zyp> would taking voyeur photos _of_ trains be better or worse?
2013-03-05T12:40:27 < Laurenceb> trolling
2013-03-05T12:40:40 < Laurenceb> that hobby already exists
2013-03-05T12:40:40 < Tectu> sorry for the disturbion and have a nice day / night what ever is over there in faggot city
2013-03-05T12:40:45 < Laurenceb> lolz
2013-03-05T12:42:32 < karlp> does that make this an upskirt pic zyp? http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00lBZtVCkPMmcj/Railway-Bogie-Cw-1b.jpg
2013-03-05T12:43:10 < dongs> haha, faggot city
2013-03-05T12:47:42 < Robint91> -_-
2013-03-05T12:47:55 < Laurenceb> attn dongs:  http://tinyurl.com/a2h3qqj
2013-03-05T12:50:43 < dongs> funneh
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2013-03-05T14:12:37 < donigs> dongul8
2013-03-05T14:15:01 < Laurenceb> Vikings raped and pillaged across europe...Except Scotland - that was pillage only
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2013-03-05T14:16:11 < Robint91> who has played with nand flash and the fsmc
2013-03-05T14:16:14 -!- claude is now known as Claude
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2013-03-05T14:18:14 < donigs> i have
2013-03-05T14:18:15 < donigs> just for reading
2013-03-05T14:31:42 < dongs> found Laurenceb http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs5/i/2004/312/1/2/my_girly_butt_by_snowy_white_death.jpg
2013-03-05T14:31:58 < Laurenceb> wtf
2013-03-05T14:32:59 < Laurenceb> saved for trolling use
2013-03-05T14:33:09 < donigs> ^_-
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2013-03-05T14:39:29 < Laurenceb> arg wtf
2013-03-05T14:39:42 < Laurenceb> theres tons of galleries of manbutt on there
2013-03-05T14:39:45 < Laurenceb> eyebleach
2013-03-05T14:41:57 < Laurenceb> <Laurenceb> needs more updates
2013-03-05T14:41:57 < Laurenceb> <Laurenceb> preferable in the river for epic lulz
2013-03-05T14:41:57 < Laurenceb> <daveake> You are an epic twat sometimes
2013-03-05T14:41:58 < Laurenceb> lol
2013-03-05T14:42:18 < Laurenceb> http://spacenear.us/tracker/ <- check end of track
2013-03-05T14:44:56 < donigs> 1-40 layers Printed Circuit Board;
2013-03-05T14:44:56 < donigs> 3/3mil line width/spacing, up to 12OZ copper thickness, 0.1mm laser drilling;
2013-03-05T14:45:11 < donigs> Finish: OSP(Entek), HASL, Lead Free HASL, Immersion silver/Tin, ENIG(Immersion gold1-10u"), Golden Finger 1-150u", Hard gold1-150u", Enepig(Au:1-8", Pd:2-5u");
2013-03-05T14:45:40 < Robint91> mhh
2013-03-05T14:45:49 < Laurenceb> not bad
2013-03-05T14:45:57 < Laurenceb> pwns seeedstudio
2013-03-05T14:46:14 < Robint91> can you use the two usb controller on a F4 at the same time?
2013-03-05T14:46:38 < karlp> Laurenceb: what's so intersting about the end of the track?
2013-03-05T14:46:47 < Laurenceb> heading for the drink
2013-03-05T14:54:52 < Tectu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTxNxa58fNc&feature=youtu.be
2013-03-05T14:55:28 < Tectu> it's getting nasty
2013-03-05T14:55:38 < Laurenceb> huh
2013-03-05T14:55:42 < Laurenceb> looks good to me
2013-03-05T14:55:47 < Tectu> thanks Laurenceb!
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2013-03-05T15:43:46 < Laurenceb> wtf
2013-03-05T15:43:58 < Laurenceb> stm32f4discovery is now hardfaulting
2013-03-05T15:43:58 <+Steffanx> ftw
2013-03-05T15:44:16 < Laurenceb> i cant even set a breakpoint in main
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2013-03-05T15:49:15 < Laurenceb> 0xfffffffe in ?? ()
2013-03-05T15:49:18 < Laurenceb> epic wtf
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2013-03-05T15:50:24 < zyp> that's lockup
2013-03-05T15:50:57 < zyp> usually that means you fucked up so royally that the hardfault handler couldn't even execute
2013-03-05T15:51:45 <+Steffanx> lol
2013-03-05T15:52:55 < jpa-> for me, that usually means a corrupted stack pointer
2013-03-05T15:53:02 < Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/eRFhuWMc
2013-03-05T15:53:20 < Laurenceb> breakpoint 2 was at main entry
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2013-03-05T15:53:46 < jpa-> are you using texane stlink?
2013-03-05T15:54:03 < Laurenceb> yes
2013-03-05T15:54:09 < jpa-> it could be just malfunctioning
2013-03-05T15:54:14 < jpa-> type c and press reset
2013-03-05T15:54:22 < jpa-> it should break, no matter if you have breakpoint or not
2013-03-05T15:54:41 < jpa-> if it does, try again to see if the bug repeats.. if it does not, restart all the things
2013-03-05T15:55:08 < jpa-> (texane stlink seems to have a plenty of bugs when trying to debug stm32f4)
2013-03-05T15:55:17 < Laurenceb> (gdb) bt
2013-03-05T15:55:17 < Laurenceb> #0  0xff633a50 in ?? ()
2013-03-05T15:55:17 < Laurenceb> #1  0xffffffec in ?? ()
2013-03-05T15:55:34 < Laurenceb> its just nonsense now
2013-03-05T15:55:47 < jpa-> obviously
2013-03-05T15:56:00 < jpa-> is that after it breaks from reset?
2013-03-05T15:56:17 < Laurenceb> it seems the code breaks somewhere after late init
2013-03-05T15:56:28 < Laurenceb> weirdly late init is being called many times
2013-03-05T15:56:39 < jpa-> or gdb is just acting funny
2013-03-05T15:56:42 < Laurenceb> i had to delete the breakpoint there to let it continue
2013-03-05T15:56:53 < Laurenceb> then it hardfaults somewhere between there and main entry
2013-03-05T15:56:59 < jpa-> stepi?
2013-03-05T15:57:27 < Laurenceb> 08000f30 <__late_init>:
2013-03-05T15:57:27 < Laurenceb>  8000f30:	4770      	bx	lr
2013-03-05T15:57:30 < Laurenceb> ok
2013-03-05T15:58:14 < Laurenceb> http://pastebin.com/ejjn8hFm
2013-03-05T15:58:19 < Laurenceb> it breaks somewhere there
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2013-03-05T15:59:14 < jpa-> bl breaks if your $sp is stupid
2013-03-05T15:59:35 < jpa-> and it could cause lockup because hardfault handler cannot stack up if $sp is stupid
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2013-03-05T15:59:55 < Laurenceb> oh shit
2013-03-05T16:00:02 < Laurenceb> its not returning
2013-03-05T16:00:16 < Laurenceb>  8000f30:	4770      	bx	lr is ignored
2013-03-05T16:00:54 < jpa-> so what was $lr?
2013-03-05T16:00:55 < Laurenceb> omfg wtf
2013-03-05T16:01:05 < Laurenceb> its looping into random code
2013-03-05T16:01:10 < Laurenceb> no wonder its hardfaulting
2013-03-05T16:01:12 < jpa-> you fail.
2013-03-05T16:01:24 < Laurenceb> GAE fails
2013-03-05T16:02:00 < Laurenceb> lr             0x8000fd3
2013-03-05T16:02:01 < Laurenceb> wtf
2013-03-05T16:02:05 < Laurenceb> thats correct
2013-03-05T16:02:56 < Laurenceb> this makes no sense
2013-03-05T16:03:14 < Laurenceb> pc             0x8000f30
2013-03-05T16:03:25 < Laurenceb> 8000f30:	4770      	bx	lr
2013-03-05T16:03:35 < Laurenceb> lr is  0x8000fd3
2013-03-05T16:03:38 < Laurenceb> so far so good
2013-03-05T16:04:01 < Laurenceb> stepi 0x08000f32 in ?? () <- wuttttttt
2013-03-05T16:04:35 < Laurenceb> glitchy ART accel?
2013-03-05T16:04:45 < jpa-> no way
2013-03-05T16:04:52 < jpa-> but texane stlink is known buggy
2013-03-05T16:05:01 < Laurenceb> so is ART accel
2013-03-05T16:05:06 < jpa-> really?
2013-03-05T16:05:09 < Laurenceb> yes
2013-03-05T16:05:15 < jpa-> source?
2013-03-05T16:05:15 < Laurenceb> on early F4discoveries
2013-03-05T16:05:19 < jpa-> aha
2013-03-05T16:05:22 < Laurenceb> chibios source
2013-03-05T16:05:40 < Laurenceb> ill try enabling the chibios fix
2013-03-05T16:06:03 < Laurenceb> its just ignoring the bx lr
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2013-03-05T16:21:34 < Laurenceb> its calling a blank function that immediately returns
2013-03-05T16:21:55 < Laurenceb> guess that could cause cache issues
2013-03-05T16:24:54 < Laurenceb> lolz it works
2013-03-05T16:25:01 < Laurenceb> chibios is correct
2013-03-05T16:25:15 < Laurenceb> ART accel broken on early F4discovery
2013-03-05T16:25:32 < Laurenceb> tiem to replace it...
2013-03-05T16:26:43 < zyp> broken?
2013-03-05T16:26:55 < zyp> you mean the prefetch stuff?
2013-03-05T16:27:00 < zyp> just disable prefetch?
2013-03-05T16:27:14 < Laurenceb> yes but then its slower
2013-03-05T16:27:23 < Laurenceb> im grabbing a newer F4discovery
2013-03-05T16:27:28 < Laurenceb> ill have to modify it...
2013-03-05T16:27:55 < zyp> well
2013-03-05T16:28:00 < zyp> slower is better than defective :p
2013-03-05T16:29:54 <+Steffanx> A newer one is better than slower or defective
2013-03-05T16:30:21 < zyp> :)
2013-03-05T16:30:31 < zyp> hmm, interesting
2013-03-05T16:30:39 < zyp> I'm not enabling cache at all in my code
2013-03-05T16:31:13 <+Steffanx> heh, how much improvement can you expect?
2013-03-05T16:31:31 < zyp> unsure
2013-03-05T16:32:15 < zyp> so far it haven't been too slow for anything, so it doesn't really matter
2013-03-05T16:32:25 < zyp> I'll make a mental note to fix it later when I need it
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2013-03-05T16:32:55 <+Steffanx> mental note .. sounds dangerous for important things :)
2013-03-05T16:33:22 < zyp> but it's not important :p
2013-03-05T16:33:37 <+Steffanx> perhaps
2013-03-05T16:33:54 <+Steffanx> I always send myself an email with not so important things i should remember :)
2013-03-05T16:34:14 < zyp> dangerous stuff would be more like not caring about FPU state during context switch
2013-03-05T16:34:32 < zyp> and I'm currently using FPU in two threads :)
2013-03-05T16:35:30 < zyp> so far it works…
2013-03-05T16:35:53 <+Steffanx> Without saving the fpu state? :)
2013-03-05T16:36:04 < Robint91> can you use both usb controllers in a F4 at the same time
2013-03-05T16:36:11 < Robint91> one host, the other device
2013-03-05T16:36:12 < Laurenceb> apparently its fixed on revision Z
2013-03-05T16:36:22 < zyp> maybe compiler is only allocating hardware-saved registers, maybe because it's cooperative multithreading
2013-03-05T16:36:31 < Laurenceb> ive got some revision Z ones here - need to upgrade the vreg and stuff first
2013-03-05T16:36:40 < zyp> so there aren't any ongoing float computations when the context switches happen
2013-03-05T16:36:43 < zyp> Robint91, sure
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2013-03-05T16:36:59 < zyp> Robint91, they are fully independent
2013-03-05T16:37:03 <+Steffanx> morning
2013-03-05T16:42:59 < Robint91> STM32F407VG for 5.6€
2013-03-05T16:43:00 < Robint91> not bad
2013-03-05T16:47:29 <+Steffanx> farnell?
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2013-03-05T16:48:51 < Robint91> Steffanx, avnet
2013-03-05T16:49:44 < Robint91> Steffanx, or 7.1€ with digikey
2013-03-05T16:50:19 < Laurenceb> WTF
2013-03-05T16:50:23 < Laurenceb> same bug in revision Z
2013-03-05T16:50:45 < Robint91> Laurenceb, euh, what are you trying to do?
2013-03-05T16:50:56 < zyp> Laurenceb, I bet you just have a silly software bug
2013-03-05T16:50:56 < Laurenceb> boot chibios
2013-03-05T16:51:05 < gxti> lol.
2013-03-05T16:53:04 < Laurenceb> putting stack into CCM also breaks it...
2013-03-05T16:53:55 < Laurenceb> ah
2013-03-05T16:54:02 < Laurenceb> revisionZ is diffferent
2013-03-05T16:54:13 < Laurenceb> its failing due to chibios linker script
2013-03-05T16:54:20 < Laurenceb> this makes more sense
2013-03-05T16:54:51 < zyp> so, what's the problem related to? using CCM at all?
2013-03-05T16:55:29 < Laurenceb> im not sure
2013-03-05T16:55:42 < Laurenceb> going to take a look at the registers
2013-03-05T16:55:45 < zyp> are you aware that there is a CCMDATA-bit in RCC_AHB1ENR? it defaults to 1, but are you sure it's not getting cleared?
2013-03-05T16:56:08 < Laurenceb> ill check chibios source
2013-03-05T16:56:53 < Laurenceb> erm
2013-03-05T16:56:55 < Laurenceb>  /* PWR clock enable.*/
2013-03-05T16:56:55 < Laurenceb>   RCC->APB1ENR = RCC_APB1ENR_PWREN;
2013-03-05T16:57:08 < Laurenceb> oops
2013-03-05T16:57:17 < Laurenceb> chibifail
2013-03-05T16:57:21 < zyp> I said AHB1ENR
2013-03-05T16:57:24 < zyp> not APB
2013-03-05T16:57:27 < Laurenceb> oh
2013-03-05T16:57:30 < Robint91> LOL
2013-03-05T16:57:43 < Robint91> Laurenfail ?!
2013-03-05T16:57:44 < zyp> but yes, look out for similar statements
2013-03-05T17:05:42 < Laurenceb> fixed it
2013-03-05T17:05:51 < Laurenceb> i overwrote my stack size
2013-03-05T17:05:58 < Laurenceb> it defaulted to 1
2013-03-05T17:06:08 < Laurenceb>  KB
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2013-03-05T17:07:33 < Laurenceb> so yeah just the cache issue on revision A
2013-03-05T17:12:11 < jpa-> i still don't quite understand what is the cache issue on revision A.. does it require some actions on part of software, and is it in errata?
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2013-03-05T17:14:36 < zyp> jpa-, it's in errata, it says just to disable prefetch
2013-03-05T17:15:48 < jpa-> ok.. i have always been wondering what "prefetch queue instruction" means
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2013-03-05T17:17:27 < dongs> sup blogs
2013-03-05T17:17:31 < dongs> i shoudl slep
2013-03-05T17:17:53 < karlp> no, I should sleep, you should finish my work for me.
2013-03-05T17:18:33 < karlp> stupid modbus "compliant" device.
2013-03-05T17:18:41 < karlp> stupid protocols that define almost nothing.
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2013-03-05T17:18:56 < jpa-> modbus compliant = causes enough pain to qualify as a modbus device
2013-03-05T17:19:52 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx: https://www.facebook.com/Eindhoven.open.2013 <-- will be there \o/
2013-03-05T17:20:13 < karlp> modbus compliant => "we promise not to speak unless spoken too" and nothing else.
2013-03-05T17:20:14 <+Steffanx> With a car?
2013-03-05T17:20:44 <+Steffanx> Erlkoenig ?
2013-03-05T17:21:18 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx: "my" team will participate with a car but i'll just be looking
2013-03-05T17:21:43 < Erlkoenig> i'll be making some CAN sensor system for the next car
2013-03-05T17:23:02 < Robint91> karlp, I know your pain
2013-03-05T17:23:16 <+Steffanx> My 'old' uni also made a car, not sure if they're going to Eindhoven too
2013-03-05T17:23:59 < karlp> Robint91: it's not all bad, just the documentation of a third party device is often very poor
2013-03-05T17:24:26 < Erlkoenig> i'll make sure some STM32F4 will be in the next car \o/
2013-03-05T17:24:27 < karlp> I've got one here now that's labelled registers in byte numbers, not register numbers
2013-03-05T17:24:38 < karlp> and gets veryupset if you don't access things on the right alignment.
2013-03-05T17:24:50 < Robint91> karlp, yeah
2013-03-05T17:24:57 < karlp> despite it having byte, byte, byte, long, byte byte word long in their description.
2013-03-05T17:25:07 < karlp> takes multiple reads of sections
2013-03-05T17:25:11 <+Steffanx> Erlkoenig, F5 !
2013-03-05T17:25:17 < Robint91> what F5
2013-03-05T17:25:21 < karlp> _our_ device just lets yuou read a single contiguous block in one hit.
2013-03-05T17:25:57 < karlp> meh, I should just suck it up and do it, I think I've poked it enough to identify it
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2013-03-05T17:34:51 <+Steffanx> mr jpa- there?
2013-03-05T17:35:41 <+Steffanx> I wonder. You played with muscle wire. Is it really that slow as shown in your video or did you some 'speed' control/current limitation?
2013-03-05T17:36:48 < jpa-> Steffanx: i used a relatively small current for the effect
2013-03-05T17:37:29 < jpa-> it can be pretty fast if you use a larger current, but then you would probably want some logic to reduce the current after, say, 100 ms so that it doesn't get too hot
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2013-03-05T17:37:58 <+Steffanx> Maybe I should just get some to play with
2013-03-05T17:38:17 < jpa-> get also some thingies with which you can hook it up to normal wire for connections
2013-03-05T17:38:38 <+Steffanx> 'thingies'
2013-03-05T17:39:17 < emeb> heh heh - he said "thingies"
2013-03-05T17:40:02 < jpa-> crimp breads
2013-03-05T17:40:07 < jpa-> er
2013-03-05T17:40:12 < jpa-> crimp beads
2013-03-05T17:40:16 < emeb> sounds yummy!
2013-03-05T17:40:31 <+Steffanx> emeb, you are not being helpful
2013-03-05T17:40:48 < jpa-> he is keeping me motivated
2013-03-05T17:40:52 < emeb> Steffanx: it's what I do. Or don't do. Or something.
2013-03-05T17:40:57 <+Steffanx> ( hmm, that is going to be THE sentence in this channel )
2013-03-05T17:41:01 < Laurenceb> btw
2013-03-05T17:41:08 < Laurenceb> TNT works on revision Z F4
2013-03-05T17:41:11 < jpa-> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000pcs-Silver-Plated-Crimps-Findings-Beads-1-5-mm-P093-/220758441947?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33663a7fdb    would probably work
2013-03-05T17:41:21 <+Steffanx> 2000 :D
2013-03-05T17:41:35 < emeb> there are few situations where TNT doesn't work. doesn't always solve the underlying problem though.
2013-03-05T17:41:39 < jpa-> you are going to lose some on your floor and a few in your nose also
2013-03-05T17:41:40 < Laurenceb> looks like the previous issue was due to prefetch
2013-03-05T17:41:45 < emeb> Oh, you weren't talking about explosives...
2013-03-05T17:41:50 < Laurenceb> lol
2013-03-05T17:41:55 <+Steffanx> I'm not 3 years old anymore jpa-
2013-03-05T17:42:40 < jpa-> Steffanx: but i am
2013-03-05T17:42:45 < emeb> jpa-: got tons of those already - the wife does beading.
2013-03-05T17:42:57 <+Steffanx> Meah, ebay autocorrects?
2013-03-05T17:43:02 < jpa-> emeb: so does mine
2013-03-05T17:43:08 <+Steffanx> Flexinol => flexing ?! Why ebay?
2013-03-05T17:43:43 < emeb> welcome to the "embedded nerds with beading wives" club.
2013-03-05T17:44:08 <+Steffanx> poor you
2013-03-05T17:44:10 < gxti> "why ebay" indeed
2013-03-05T17:44:41 < jpa-> emeb: you should get a rabbit and work-related depression also, so our club can be more exclusive
2013-03-05T17:44:49 <+Steffanx> That wasn't my point gxti
2013-03-05T17:44:57 < gxti> well it should be
2013-03-05T17:45:04 <+Steffanx> No it shouldn't
2013-03-05T17:45:25 <+Steffanx> jpa- you parrot has a rabbit? Sure thats a good combination?
2013-03-05T17:45:39 < emeb> jpa-: got cats already. sorry to hear about work-related depression tho.
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2013-03-05T17:46:03 < jpa-> Steffanx: seems to work
2013-03-05T17:46:56  * jpa- wants a cat also
2013-03-05T17:47:15 < jpa-> but i'm too allergic to have one in an appartment this small
2013-03-05T17:47:21 < emeb> I hear cats and rabbits can get along OK.
2013-03-05T17:47:27 <+Steffanx> Can't you get a hairless one?
2013-03-05T17:47:31 < Robint91> Laurenceb, TNT?
2013-03-05T17:47:32 < jpa-> Steffanx: they are ugly
2013-03-05T17:47:38 <+Steffanx> Sure, but it is a cat
2013-03-05T17:47:41 <+Steffanx> at least, they say it is
2013-03-05T17:47:46 < gxti> an ugly cat that will still eat your brain when you die
2013-03-05T17:47:51 < gxti> what's the upside
2013-03-05T17:48:04 < Laurenceb> Robin91: look at the topic
2013-03-05T17:48:09 < emeb> I once mistook a colleague's photo of his hairless cat for an uncooked chicken.
2013-03-05T17:48:10 < jpa-> the problem with cats is that they absolutely love to sleep in the bed when you are not watching.. rabbits are easier to keep away with barricades :)
2013-03-05T17:48:20 <+Steffanx> gxti.. [insert what tectu said]
2013-03-05T17:48:54 < emeb> jpa-: get allergy shots to desensitize?
2013-03-05T17:48:57 <+Steffanx> jpa- for every problem is a solution
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2013-03-05T17:49:12 < jpa-> Steffanx: find a solution for my life
2013-03-05T17:49:16 < gxti> a solution of hydrochloric acid
2013-03-05T17:49:27 < emeb> 7% solution
2013-03-05T17:49:49 < jpa-> 7% solution of hcl.. ok will try, if the drugstore sells me that
2013-03-05T17:49:53 -!- [1]MrMobius is now known as MrMobius
2013-03-05T17:49:58 < emeb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven-Per-Cent_Solution
2013-03-05T17:50:34 < Laurenceb> mortar cleaner is high concentration HCl
2013-03-05T17:51:13 < Robint91> damm the xilinx zynq is expensive
2013-03-05T17:51:19 < Erlkoenig> my only allergy is languagy study
2013-03-05T17:51:20 < emeb> no kidding
2013-03-05T17:51:31 < Robint91> 50€ for the zynq 7010
2013-03-05T17:51:46 <+Steffanx> Man, IRC .. the only place where a conversation goes from muscle wire to deadly crap in a few mintues
2013-03-05T17:51:46 < gxti> that cheap? i thought it was more. not that i'll be using one anytime soon.
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2013-03-05T17:51:49  * emeb is allergic to elm trees. his house is surrounded by them. fall pollen season is... fun.
2013-03-05T17:52:22 < Robint91> gxti, 50€/pcs for minimum 500 pcs
2013-03-05T17:52:31 < Erlkoenig> my friend is allergic to just... everything
2013-03-05T17:52:48 < gxti> i blame modern society
2013-03-05T17:52:49 < Robint91> gxti, 75€ for the 7020
2013-03-05T17:53:04 < Erlkoenig> gxti: yup
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2013-03-05T17:53:59 < Laurenceb> http://www.thefeaturedcreature.dreamhosters.com/wordpress6/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/penelopa31.jpg
2013-03-05T17:54:30 -!- _BJFreeman is now known as BJfreeman
2013-03-05T17:55:12 <+Steffanx> it took you that long to get up with a photo of a cat like that Laurenceb ?
2013-03-05T17:55:18 <+Steffanx> *to come up
2013-03-05T17:55:32 < jpa-> :D
2013-03-05T17:55:33 < jpa-> i
2013-03-05T17:55:46 < jpa-> i'm sure Laurenceb 'got up' with a photo like that much faster
2013-03-05T17:56:20 <+Steffanx> Where did you buy your muscle wire jpa- ? Random store or the flexisomething webshop?
2013-03-05T17:56:31 < jpa-> ebay i think
2013-03-05T17:58:07 <+Steffanx> "i think" :(
2013-03-05T17:58:35 < qyx_> you are not..
2013-03-05T17:59:03 < jpa-> yes ebay
2013-03-05T17:59:10 < jpa-> but the seller doesn't sell it anymore
2013-03-05T17:59:16 < jpa-> however this looks good IMO  http://www.ebay.com/itm/NiTi-Nitinol-Nickel-Titanium-Super-Elastic-Wire-20-feet-New-power-technology-/330871682953?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d097d3789
2013-03-05T18:00:02 <+Steffanx> Yeah, nitinol, flexinol gets autocorrected to flexing :)
2013-03-05T18:02:34 < karlp> wotcha making Steffanx?
2013-03-05T18:02:55 < jpa-> though 0.5 mm is going to need a lot of current.. for 0.1 mm i used about 200mA
2013-03-05T18:03:07 <+Steffanx> Nothing actually karlp :)
2013-03-05T18:03:30 < Laurenceb> TNT seems to have a very small sscanf
2013-03-05T18:03:35 < Laurenceb> but it doesnt work :P
2013-03-05T18:04:01 < jpa-> isn't TNT just newlib like everything else?
2013-03-05T18:04:10 <+Steffanx> It's 0.05mm jpa-
2013-03-05T18:04:12 < Laurenceb> hmm
2013-03-05T18:04:20 < Laurenceb> maybe its not linking correctly
2013-03-05T18:04:43 < jpa-> Steffanx: good for you. In my world 0.020 inch = 0.5 mm
2013-03-05T18:04:43 < Laurenceb> "muscle" wire is really poor
2013-03-05T18:05:07 < jpa-> it's good for some things
2013-03-05T18:05:20 <+Steffanx> lol jpa- ?
2013-03-05T18:06:34 <+Steffanx> "Here's what I've learned from working with this.  Super elastic nitinol doesn't like to flex a lot. " Huh? Super elastic but doesnt like to flex a lot ?!
2013-03-05T18:06:57 < jpa-> means that it likes to come back :)
2013-03-05T18:07:12 < jpa-> or if you bend too much, it snaps in half, maybe
2013-03-05T18:07:24 < jpa-> (didn't happen for 0.1 mm but could happen for 0.5 mm)
2013-03-05T18:08:01 <+Steffanx> 0.05
2013-03-05T18:09:26 < jpa-> i still live in my world where 0.020 inch = 0.5 mm
2013-03-05T18:09:43 < jpa-> you can keep living in your world but i don't know how things work around there
2013-03-05T18:09:56 <+Steffanx> me tries google.fi
2013-03-05T18:10:00 < jpa-> i guess my 0.006" muscle wire is reaaally thin there
2013-03-05T18:10:24 <+Steffanx> Hmm, google.fi agrees
2013-03-05T18:10:34 < jpa-> agrees with you or with me?
2013-03-05T18:10:41 <+Steffanx> With you
2013-03-05T18:10:52 <+Steffanx> .com is probably not  very google with the metric system
2013-03-05T18:11:29 <+Steffanx> *good
2013-03-05T18:11:43 <+Steffanx> Man, i guess i need even more sleep
2013-03-05T18:11:49 < jpa-> yeah it uses the american millimeters
2013-03-05T18:11:50 < qyx_> how do you google that?
2013-03-05T18:11:53 < gxti> Steffanx not very google with the wording
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2013-03-05T18:12:03 < jpa-> "0.020 inch to mm"
2013-03-05T18:12:07 <+Steffanx> Yeah
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2013-03-05T18:12:22 <+Steffanx> You are not being helpful gxti
2013-03-05T18:12:39 < gxti> i am very helpful. free sarcasm with every tip.
2013-03-05T18:12:50 < jpa-> gxti is keeping me motivated
2013-03-05T18:12:54 < Laurenceb> but seriously, muscle wire sucks
2013-03-05T18:13:02 <+Steffanx> So do you Laurenceb
2013-03-05T18:13:10 < jpa-> Laurenceb: why?
2013-03-05T18:13:15 < Laurenceb> not as bad as muscle wire
2013-03-05T18:13:15 <+Steffanx> Where are the arguments for your statement?
2013-03-05T18:13:22 < Laurenceb> eats tons of current
2013-03-05T18:13:28 < Laurenceb> for little force
2013-03-05T18:13:33 < Laurenceb> and burns things
2013-03-05T18:13:37 < karlp> wat?
2013-03-05T18:13:43 < jpa-> Laurenceb: yes, all true
2013-03-05T18:13:47 < karlp> are you using current to provide the heat for transformation?
2013-03-05T18:13:52 < Laurenceb> yes
2013-03-05T18:13:54 < jpa-> of course
2013-03-05T18:13:54 <+Steffanx> Yes
2013-03-05T18:13:59 < Laurenceb> you heat it massively
2013-03-05T18:14:01 < karlp> well, not everyone does that.
2013-03-05T18:14:08 < Laurenceb> and it contracts... slightly
2013-03-05T18:14:19 < karlp> there's quite a few applications where body heat does that
2013-03-05T18:14:29 < Laurenceb> wut
2013-03-05T18:14:29 < jpa-> i wouldn't use muscle wire for battery operation if it had to move constantly.. but if you just need to activate it for 1 second every now and then, it is ok
2013-03-05T18:14:31 < Laurenceb> no way
2013-03-05T18:14:36 < jpa-> much simples than some servo, and also very silent
2013-03-05T18:14:39 < Laurenceb> it needs like >200C
2013-03-05T18:14:44 < karlp> no. not true
2013-03-05T18:14:47 < karlp> depends on teh alloy
2013-03-05T18:14:49 <+Steffanx> That tiny muscle wire based servo is nice jpa- :)
2013-03-05T18:14:52 < jpa-> Laurenceb: no, many of them work at about 50°C
2013-03-05T18:14:53 < karlp> it's used in tooth braces
2013-03-05T18:14:59 < Laurenceb> yes
2013-03-05T18:15:03 < Laurenceb> but can you buy it?
2013-03-05T18:15:13 < jpa-> Laurenceb: yes, see the link above
2013-03-05T18:15:15 < jpa-> 115°F
2013-03-05T18:15:17 < karlp> I'm sure I could if I wanted it badly enough.
2013-03-05T18:15:34 < Laurenceb> hmm
2013-03-05T18:15:41 < Laurenceb> not sure i trust that
2013-03-05T18:15:53 <+Steffanx> Thats all up to you
2013-03-05T18:15:55 < Laurenceb> the stuff ive seen on rcgroups needed high temperatures
2013-03-05T18:16:12 < karlp> there's a world outsaid HAB and rc planes dood
2013-03-05T18:16:17 < Laurenceb> lol
2013-03-05T18:16:34 <+Steffanx> rcgroup banned dongs, so they are no good at all
2013-03-05T18:16:43 < jpa-> Laurenceb: the one i had ran cool enough not to burn paper.. but it was about 80°C or so
2013-03-05T18:16:44 < Laurenceb> haha
2013-03-05T18:16:46 <+Steffanx> and that tom66 ( ? ) guy is also there
2013-03-05T18:16:49 < Laurenceb> i see
2013-03-05T18:17:53 < Laurenceb> http://www.musclewires.com/MWNitinol.php
2013-03-05T18:17:58 < Laurenceb> but its still crap
2013-03-05T18:18:21 <+Steffanx> Yes and the STM32F Z revision still has the ART bug
2013-03-05T18:18:28 < Laurenceb> 3amps for 4N over 15mm
2013-03-05T18:18:37 < Laurenceb> wut
2013-03-05T18:18:52 < Laurenceb> who says?
2013-03-05T18:18:56 <+Steffanx> YOU :P
2013-03-05T18:19:01 < Laurenceb> not true
2013-03-05T18:19:04 < gxti> the bug is Laurenceb
2013-03-05T18:19:08 < gxti> ART is fine
2013-03-05T18:19:10 < gxti> whatever that is
2013-03-05T18:19:12 < Laurenceb> stack was wrong
2013-03-05T18:19:13 <+Steffanx> gxti understands
2013-03-05T18:19:39 < jpa-> Laurenceb: suggest a muscle wire alternative for http://essentialscrap.com/tree/
2013-03-05T18:20:03 < Laurenceb> jpa-: going outside and getting a life
2013-03-05T18:20:14 <+Steffanx> jpa-, wires .. thunderbird style
2013-03-05T18:21:03 < jpa-> Laurenceb: actually that was what happened when i tried going out
2013-03-05T18:21:06 < jpa-> i better stay in
2013-03-05T18:24:54 < Erlkoenig> the two CAN modules of the F4 are completely independant and have idendical functionality, dispite their naming "master" and "slave", right?
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2013-03-05T18:47:54 < Erlkoenig> meh fail
2013-03-05T18:56:38 < zippe> Erlkoenig: No, the slave port is a second physical interface on the controller otherwise marked 'master'
2013-03-05T18:57:29 < Erlkoenig> okay but that doesn't mean they don't work independently...?
2013-03-05T19:17:44 < zippe> It depends on what you mean by "independently"
2013-03-05T19:17:51 < zippe> They share a bunch of resources
2013-03-05T19:17:57 < zippe> But they have different shift registers,e tc.
2013-03-05T19:18:31 < Robint91> seen that new atmel ARM part?
2013-03-05T19:18:47 < Robint91> http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/arm/sama5d3.aspx
2013-03-05T19:20:54 < zyp> I think we had a discussion about it a few weeks ago
2013-03-05T19:21:02 < Robint91> really?
2013-03-05T19:21:07 < zippe> Fun. Pity about not being in a PoP
2013-03-05T19:21:21 < zippe> But the A5 is quite a respectable animal.
2013-03-05T19:21:49 < Robint91> zippe, I don't know how a A5 compares with a A9, etc
2013-03-05T19:21:57 < zyp> seems nice, but higher spec than anything I'm interested in doing currently
2013-03-05T19:21:59 < zippe> A5 is the ARM9 replacement.
2013-03-05T19:23:15 < BJfreeman> Erlkoenig  https://my.st.com/public/STe2ecommunities/mcu/Lists/STM32Discovery/Flat.aspx?RootFolder=https%3a%2f%2fmy.st.com%2fpublic%2fSTe2ecommunities%2fmcu%2fLists%2fSTM32Discovery%2fSTM32F4%20DISCOVERY%20CAN%20bus%20controller%20problem&FolderCTID=0x01200200770978C69A1141439FE559EB459D75800084C20D8867EAD444A5987D47BE638E0F&currentviews=1332
2013-03-05T19:23:25 < zippe> The A5 gets 8.5 CoreMark/MHz, the A9 does about 11.5
2013-03-05T19:23:56 < Laurenceb> 64bit AHB?!
2013-03-05T19:23:59 < Laurenceb> interesting
2013-03-05T19:24:16 < zippe> Yeah, the open question is really whether they built it with an L2 or not
2013-03-05T19:24:19 < Laurenceb> Low system cost — The 0.8mm ball pitch package reduces the PCB design complexity
2013-03-05T19:24:22 < Laurenceb> lulwut
2013-03-05T19:24:44 < Robint91> Laurenceb, 0.8 is better than the nonsense of 0.5mm PoP bgas
2013-03-05T19:24:49 < zippe> LPDDR2 + NAND flash … ouch
2013-03-05T19:24:58 < zyp> 0.8mm is not very dense
2013-03-05T19:25:05 < Laurenceb> its a bit hardcore :P
2013-03-05T19:25:06 < Robint91> Laurenceb, it ask for 6mil/6mil
2013-03-05T19:25:12 < Laurenceb> ok
2013-03-05T19:25:30 < Laurenceb>  consumes less than 200mW when running at maximum speed
2013-03-05T19:25:34 < Laurenceb> thats impressive
2013-03-05T19:25:37 < zippe> 128K internal SRAM too
2013-03-05T19:25:54 < zippe> Single PLL
2013-03-05T19:26:13 < Laurenceb> need external flash :-/
2013-03-05T19:26:20 < Laurenceb> or sram
2013-03-05T19:26:21 < zippe> Looks like no GPU/HDMI/DP
2013-03-05T19:26:22 < zippe> that's nice
2013-03-05T19:26:43 < Robint91> zippe, Ideal for small interactive HMI panels
2013-03-05T19:27:17 < zippe> The ballout options are weird
2013-03-05T19:27:55 < Robint91> WE HAVE A WINNER
2013-03-05T19:28:08 < zippe> But the D35 ticks all my boxes
2013-03-05T19:28:09 < Robint91> ATSAMA5D31A-CU-ND <- 14$ singles
2013-03-05T19:28:27 < Robint91> sub 7€ at 100 pcs
2013-03-05T19:28:39 < zippe> Ugh. Not super competitive
2013-03-05T19:28:58 < Robint91> zippe, I like the FPU in that thing
2013-03-05T19:29:01 < zippe> Would really rather have it in a PoP with 128MiB of DDR at ~$10
2013-03-05T19:29:15 < Robint91> zippe, yeah
2013-03-05T19:29:30 < Robint91> zippe, but if you compare it to others
2013-03-05T19:29:42 < zippe> The TI A8-based thing is cheaper.
2013-03-05T19:29:44 < Robint91> like the ones of freescale
2013-03-05T19:29:58 < zippe> I haven't got to the power supply yet
2013-03-05T19:30:03 < zippe> That's the killer for the TI part
2013-03-05T19:31:14 < Robint91> zippe,  the AM3352ZCE50 ( a 500MHz A8 part) is 18$ single
2013-03-05T19:31:40 < zippe> The bottom end of that line was ~$5 in modest quantity when I looked
2013-03-05T19:32:14 < zippe> Oh gods
2013-03-05T19:32:24 < zippe> Again with the retarded supply sequencing
2013-03-05T19:32:33 < Robint91> the atmel part?
2013-03-05T19:32:36 < zippe> Yes
2013-03-05T19:32:59 < zippe> It wants 1.2, 1.8 and 3.3, then 2.5 for fuse programming
2013-03-05T19:33:41 < zippe> There's an entire section in the datasheet just devoted to power supply timing
2013-03-05T19:33:49 < zippe> So again, you are going to need a custom PMU
2013-03-05T19:34:41 < zippe> The document that contains the actual sequencing requirements, slew rates, etc. is not available
2013-03-05T19:39:04 < Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfbhU8W6970&feature=youtu.be
2013-03-05T19:39:06 < Laurenceb> wut
2013-03-05T19:41:41 <+Steffanx> Too much trollink Laurenceb ?
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2013-03-05T19:47:07 < a2cypher> Hey folks.   Working on a STM32F103R4,    Having some strange problems with my linker script.
2013-03-05T19:47:57 < a2cypher> When I first enter the main() routine, my stack pointer is 0x20000200 when I believe it should be more like 0x20001800
2013-03-05T19:48:14 < a2cypher> the chip has 6k RAM, so the stack should be at the top of that, correct ?
2013-03-05T19:48:36 < jpa-> a2cypher: the initial stack pointer comes from your vector table
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2013-03-05T19:49:15 < a2cypher> yeah, I see in the table  the first one is .word _estack
2013-03-05T19:49:24 < a2cypher> but _estack should come from linker script, right?
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2013-03-05T19:49:49 < a2cypher> and in my linker script,  _estack = 0x20001800
2013-03-05T19:50:04 < jpa-> what about the binary, what does arm-none-eabi-objdump -d mystuff.elf  give for the vector table?
2013-03-05T19:50:54 < zippe> a2cypher: also, no idea what codebase you're working with. Does it swap from MSP to PSP during startup?
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2013-03-05T19:53:57 < a2cypher> I dont see anything in the startup that mucks about with the stack pointer.  Digging through that objdump now looking for interrupt vectors
2013-03-05T19:55:12 < a2cypher> yeah, looking in the objdump, first vector is 0x20001800
2013-03-05T19:55:58 < a2cypher> I'm using the startup file included with the STM32 peripheral library and a slightly modified linker script from the same.
2013-03-05T19:56:24 < jpa-> how do you load your code?
2013-03-05T19:57:17 < jpa-> or rather, do you come through bootloader or directly from reset?
2013-03-05T19:57:47 < zippe> a2cypher: also, how are you determining the value of your stack pointer?
2013-03-05T19:58:03 < a2cypher> looking at the registers listed via JTAG
2013-03-05T19:58:12 < zippe> which debugger? which register?
2013-03-05T19:58:17 < a2cypher> gdb
2013-03-05T19:58:22 < zippe> (some report both psp and msp, for example)
2013-03-05T19:58:34 < zippe> which probe?
2013-03-05T19:58:52 < a2cypher> register,  "sp"
2013-03-05T19:58:56 < a2cypher> but I see both msp and psp
2013-03-05T19:59:07 < a2cypher> but stupid eclipse is listing them in decimal
2013-03-05T19:59:07 < zippe> Are you sure you don't have e.g. a .gdbinit set up for debugging uploaded code fragments?
2013-03-05T19:59:27 < zippe> psp should be zero if you're not touching it
2013-03-05T19:59:40 < a2cypher> it's not.. so it must be touched somehwere.
2013-03-05T19:59:49 < zippe> values?
2013-03-05T19:59:57 < zippe> I can do base conversions for you 8)
2013-03-05T20:00:27 < a2cypher> MSP = 0x20000200  PSP = 0x902A410
2013-03-05T20:00:48 < a2cypher> PSP looks like total garbage..
2013-03-05T20:00:55 < zippe> yeah, not sure I trust your probe
2013-03-05T20:01:12 < a2cypher> my probe ?
2013-03-05T20:01:20 < zippe> the thing that gdb is talking to
2013-03-05T20:01:33 < a2cypher> its gdb-server  from Seggar J-link pro
2013-03-05T20:01:41 < zippe> Check to make sure that you don't have Eclipse configured to force the stack pointer
2013-03-05T20:01:43 < a2cypher> Segger rather
2013-03-05T20:01:48 < zippe> Like I said...
2013-03-05T20:01:52 < a2cypher> ok..  where would that be .
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2013-03-05T20:03:39 < a2cypher> doesnt look like there is anything like that set.   It is set to load symbols and then sets a breakpoint at main
2013-03-05T20:03:53 < elektrinis> hi
2013-03-05T20:04:00 < elektrinis> what IDE do you use for stm32?
2013-03-05T20:04:21 < elektrinis> tried iar - terrible gui
2013-03-05T20:04:33 < elektrinis> atollic is kinda hard to setup
2013-03-05T20:04:44 < elektrinis> is the anything else?
2013-03-05T20:05:21 < a2cypher> elektrinis:  I'm using eclipse
2013-03-05T20:05:47 < elektrinis> is there a suitable workspace?
2013-03-05T20:05:50 < elektrinis> compiler?
2013-03-05T20:05:51 <+Steffanx> You can try coocox ide, which is eclipse based, but that one also requires some setup
2013-03-05T20:05:52 < emeb> what OS?
2013-03-05T20:05:55 < elektrinis> w7
2013-03-05T20:06:01 <+Steffanx> IAR sounds windows-ish emeb :)
2013-03-05T20:06:09 < emeb> ya
2013-03-05T20:06:27 < emeb> +1 for CooCox. Not too much trouble to set up.
2013-03-05T20:06:57 < elektrinis> does it support debugging?
2013-03-05T20:07:01 <+Steffanx> Yep
2013-03-05T20:07:02 < emeb> yep
2013-03-05T20:07:13 < elektrinis> m
2013-03-05T20:07:15 < a2cypher> elektrinis:  there are a few gcc based compilers around.   Workspace you need to make yourself or find a makefile or something
2013-03-05T20:07:21 < a2cypher> and yes, it does debugging with GDB
2013-03-05T20:08:10 < elektrinis> coocox vs. atollic. which one do you prefer?
2013-03-05T20:08:20 < zippe> elektrinis: SublimeText
2013-03-05T20:09:04 < zippe> Because I spend more time writing code than anything else.
2013-03-05T20:09:43 <+Steffanx> That's not an IDE :)
2013-03-05T20:10:03 <+Steffanx> More a "sophisticated text editor" like the website says
2013-03-05T20:10:18 < elektrinis> :)
2013-03-05T20:10:33 <+Steffanx> And not free, which is probably one of his requirements :)
2013-03-05T20:10:58 < elektrinis> Download CoIDE Video
2013-03-05T20:11:01 < elektrinis> thats odd
2013-03-05T20:11:20 <+Steffanx> or is sublime freeish
2013-03-05T20:11:50 <+Steffanx> oh, yes :)
2013-03-05T20:12:46 < elektrinis> so coocox uses gcc?
2013-03-05T20:12:57 < elektrinis> and what compiler does atollic use?
2013-03-05T20:14:03 < Robint91> gcc
2013-03-05T20:16:22 < gxti> coocox is a neutered eclipse and atollic is a not-neutered netbeans (or eclipse, i forget)
2013-03-05T20:16:31 < gxti> so as far as editors go atollic would probably suck less
2013-03-05T20:16:54 < elektrinis> atollic is eclipse based as well
2013-03-05T20:17:09 < gxti> they're both fat piles of java, i can never keep them straight
2013-03-05T20:17:18 < gxti> was it mplab x that was netbeans? oh well who cares
2013-03-05T20:18:26 <+Steffanx> Go away with your PIC gxti
2013-03-05T20:18:27 < elektrinis> atmel's studio is based on MS's something
2013-03-05T20:18:37 < elektrinis> it got a lot better since a year ago
2013-03-05T20:18:39 < gxti> i haven't touched a pic in 6+ months
2013-03-05T20:18:39 <+Steffanx> Visual Studio Something, yes
2013-03-05T20:18:55 <+Steffanx> Visual Studio Shell or whatever it's called
2013-03-05T20:19:45 < elektrinis> anyway i got myself stm32F0 eval board, will give it a go
2013-03-05T20:20:20 < elektrinis> i'm more interested in f1 due to CAN capability, but it seems like those are not available
2013-03-05T20:20:58 < gxti> f4disco or f3disco would probably be more useful, even if you're not planning on using those specific parts
2013-03-05T20:21:51 < elektrinis> yes, was looking at f3
2013-03-05T20:22:06 < karlp> more useful just because more periphs onboard to play with?
2013-03-05T20:22:16 < karlp> f0 disco is fun because it includes prototyping area
2013-03-05T20:22:42 < elektrinis> a, I see now why i did not get a f3disco
2013-03-05T20:22:51 < karlp> otherwise it's just an exercise in learning about fpu flags and soft/hard when you won't need that on the f0
2013-03-05T20:22:53 < elektrinis> 'cause it's out of stock on farnel
2013-03-05T20:23:43 < gxti> more useful because it can do things the f0 can't, even if you don't need them right away
2013-03-05T20:26:53 < karlp> ohkay.
2013-03-05T20:27:16 < elektrinis> damn, atollic has a 8k limitation
2013-03-05T20:27:21 < elektrinis> ridiculous.
2013-03-05T20:27:29 < karlp> blinky or gtfo
2013-03-05T20:27:41 < elektrinis> ;]
2013-03-05T20:27:57 < gxti> elektrinis: depends on the chip then, i think it's 32K for the F107 i was working with
2013-03-05T20:28:13 < elektrinis> i have f051, so 8k...
2013-03-05T20:28:16 < gxti> which was still marginal
2013-03-05T20:28:35 < elektrinis> ok for blinker, but not so ok for motor drive
2013-03-05T20:34:06 < elektrinis> ok, so coocox it is
2013-03-05T20:34:18 < elektrinis> kinda slow on download, 1MB/s
2013-03-05T20:37:35 < gxti> first world problems
2013-03-05T20:37:57 < elektrinis> ok, installing
2013-03-05T20:38:18 < elektrinis> i'm in third world, Lithuania :)
2013-03-05T20:38:56 < elektrinis> we're like aboriginal to folks in the us
2013-03-05T20:40:42 < elektrinis> coocox does not support directories with spaces or double-byte character.
2013-03-05T20:40:44 < elektrinis> d'oh
2013-03-05T20:44:41 < gxti> 1MB/s is first world slow
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2013-03-05T20:45:07 < [1]MrMobius> ha
2013-03-05T20:45:16 < [1]MrMobius> im getting 80/kbps now
2013-03-05T20:45:26 < [1]MrMobius> so around 10KBps
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2013-03-05T21:05:33 < a2cypher> zippe: So do I need to explicitly copy the stack pointer from the interrupt vector table?  Or does it do that already somehow ?
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2013-03-05T21:06:55 < a2cypher> it says in the comment block at the top of my startup code that it is supposed to init the stack pointer before entering the Reset Handler.
2013-03-05T21:07:02 < a2cypher> but i cant seem to find where it does that
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2013-03-05T21:29:57 < jpa-> a2cypher: the CPU does that on reset
2013-03-05T21:31:03 < a2cypher> it doesnt seem to be in my case.    I just added this to my reset handler before branching to main:   ldr r0, =_estack  msr msp, r0
2013-03-05T21:31:16 < a2cypher> and it seems to be setting the correct stack pointer now.
2013-03-05T21:32:11 < jpa-> i bet whatever you use to load your program is acting as a bootloader, and doesn't properly initialize the stack pointer
2013-03-05T21:32:31 < ds2> initialize?
2013-03-05T21:32:33 < jpa-> which in turn may cause all sorts of fun stuff like "code works under debugger but doesn't work when executed from power-on"
2013-03-05T21:32:52 < ds2> thought m3 gets it from vector?
2013-03-05T21:33:12 < jpa-> ds2: only on reset
2013-03-05T21:33:41 < jpa-> if you come from a bootloader or flash loader, it will be whatever value the loader left there
2013-03-05T21:34:16 < ds2> ohh that case
2013-03-05T21:35:06 < a2cypher> yeah,  that's probably the case.
2013-03-05T21:35:20 < a2cypher> so I'm just initializing it with the same value from the vector table.
2013-03-05T21:36:46 < ds2> why does a bootloader getused here? thought itwas bare metal?
2013-03-05T21:37:04 < zyp> not bootloader; debugger
2013-03-05T21:37:51 < ds2> eh? ami missing something?
2013-03-05T21:38:02 < zyp> 20:32:11 < jpa-> i bet whatever you use to load your program is acting as a bootloader, and doesn't properly initialize the stack pointer
2013-03-05T21:38:21 < zyp> «whatever you use to load your program», i.e. the debugger
2013-03-05T21:39:00 < ds2> think i am missing something
2013-03-05T21:39:40 < jpa-> zyp: though gdb doesn't set it, the (j-link?) probe stuff sets it
2013-03-05T21:39:58 < zyp> I'm not sure
2013-03-05T21:40:17 < jpa-> ds2: if not bootloader, then probably a flash loader
2013-03-05T21:40:30 < ds2> thought the debug block is hw so no "loading" going on
2013-03-05T21:40:31 < jpa-> for example st-link uses a flash loader program that runs from the sram
2013-03-05T21:41:04 < jpa-> because it is faster for the CPU to program itself than for an external interface to "write 1 word.. poll and wait.. write another word.. wait.."
2013-03-05T21:41:47 < jpa-> https://github.com/texane/stlink/blob/master/flashloaders/stm32f4.s   etc.
2013-03-05T21:41:54 < gxti> so does BMP. even FPGAs often do that -- load a bitstream that subsequently loads data into the permanent storage
2013-03-05T21:42:02 < zyp> the thing is that after loading a program, the debugger can execute it in different ways; either by invoking a system reset, or by pointing the program counter to the newly loaded program
2013-03-05T21:42:08 < gxti> although there are also FPGA memories that do JTAG so you include iton the chain and talk to it directly
2013-03-05T21:42:09 < ds2> oh...i see. thought it used the hw block for dbg
2013-03-05T21:42:17 < zyp> the latter option would not cause hardware to initialize the stack pointer
2013-03-05T21:42:29 < jpa-> zyp: that is true also
2013-03-05T21:42:42 < zyp> is this not what you are talking about?
2013-03-05T21:42:56 < zyp> the flashloaders themselves are pretty irrelevant, they usually don't use stack
2013-03-05T21:43:02 < jpa-> so yeah, if 1) something modifies stack pointer AND 2) debugger doesn't issue system reset, then stack pointer will be funny
2013-03-05T21:43:29 < gxti> bootloaders may vary, the one i'm using does restore stack pointer from the vector table before jumping
2013-03-05T21:43:47 < zyp> that's good practice
2013-03-05T21:43:53 < gxti> but i think chibios also fixes it afterwards
2013-03-05T21:44:03 < zyp> that's bad practice, IMO
2013-03-05T21:44:06 < jpa-> the bootloader in ROM does not fix stack pointer IIRC
2013-03-05T21:44:17 < jpa-> that is why a lot of code sets stack pointer manually
2013-03-05T21:44:24 < zyp> I remember libopencm3 had a bug with that
2013-03-05T21:44:39 < gxti> does the rom bootloader ever jump to the application? soft bootloaders have to because they always get run
2013-03-05T21:44:51 < gxti> but the rom one is based on pin strap so it could just reset after flashing
2013-03-05T21:44:52 < ds2> rom bootloader = the serial/usb loader?
2013-03-05T21:44:53 < jpa-> gxti: yes, there is a "GO" instruction
2013-03-05T21:44:56 < jpa-> ds2: yes
2013-03-05T21:45:06 < gxti> zyp: i don't see whyit would be bad practice honestly
2013-03-05T21:45:14 < zyp> with certain compiler versions, the stack pointer weren't manually set until after the stack was already in use.
2013-03-05T21:45:47 < gxti> well yeah, the OS is responsible for setting it *correctly*, and setting it too late is not correct :P
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2013-03-05T21:45:51 < jpa-> gxti: it is quite useful to do   "some_bootloader_app myimage.bin" and have it immediately execute it
2013-03-05T21:46:09 < gxti> jpa-: yes, probably true
2013-03-05T21:46:21 < gxti> and gdb will end up doing the same thing most likely
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2013-03-05T21:47:12 < zyp> gdb does nothing, it just relies on whatever gdbserver you are using to behave correctly
2013-03-05T21:47:31 < gxti> sure it does, it jumps directly to the elf entry point sometimes
2013-03-05T21:47:58 < zyp> blame your gdbserver.
2013-03-05T21:48:11 < gxti> doubt the gdbserver ever sees the elf
2013-03-05T21:48:55 < zyp> it doesn't but it get the vKill and vRun commands when you do «run» in gdb
2013-03-05T21:48:58 < gxti> i know this because i can flash a program compiled for a non-zero starting address and run it without flashing the bootloader :p
2013-03-05T21:49:20 < jpa-> gdb does set $pc
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2013-03-05T21:49:35 < zyp> run it with which command? continue?
2013-03-05T21:49:37 < jpa-> but if the gdbserver is "extended remote" then it does reset IIRC
2013-03-05T21:50:24 < gxti> zyp: i think so, memory is fuzzy
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2013-03-05T21:50:32 < zyp> then that's your problem
2013-03-05T21:50:48 < gxti> what
2013-03-05T21:50:54 < zyp> after «load» you should consider the target to be in an unknown state, and it doesn't make sense to continue from an unknown state
2013-03-05T21:51:32 < gxti> i never even said there was a problem
2013-03-05T21:51:40 < zyp> you should use «run» to restart execution from the beginning, which should translate into a system reset by the gdbserver
2013-03-05T21:52:15 < zyp> otherwise you may run into all sorts of weird issues with peripherals being in unknown states
2013-03-05T21:53:05 < karlp> (which is why you need a gdb server that supports extended remote, not just remote)
2013-03-05T21:53:18 < karlp> if you only hve remote, you don't get kill/run
2013-03-05T21:53:27 < zyp> do you even get load with remote?
2013-03-05T21:53:31 < karlp> yup
2013-03-05T21:53:33 < jpa-> yes
2013-03-05T21:53:37 < zyp> ew
2013-03-05T21:53:55 < karlp> load and continue is "normal" and "mostly works" with just regualr remote
2013-03-05T21:54:10 < karlp> openocd only added extended remote in recent master.
2013-03-05T21:54:15 < jpa-> because texane stlink sucks, my standard method with F4 is now: load, continue, press reset button, continue
2013-03-05T21:54:25 < zyp> so it all comes down to «blame openocd» :)
2013-03-05T21:54:36 < jpa-> no no, you can blame texane stlink also
2013-03-05T21:54:42 < karlp> well, current master is workign far far far better for me than texane stlink ever did,
2013-03-05T21:54:57 < karlp> though for the prior two years, stlink, buggy as it was, was still better.
2013-03-05T21:54:59 < gxti> i'm using BMP; afaik load is the only way to flash
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2013-03-05T21:55:10 < zyp> yep
2013-03-05T21:55:17 < karlp> load's the same for all ofus, it's what command you run next :)
2013-03-05T21:55:27 < zyp> gxti, and after flashing you do «run», to invoke a system reset
2013-03-05T21:55:33 < gxti> my experience with stlink is that it doesn't work at all, which is slightly worse than my experience with openocd
2013-03-05T21:55:39 < gxti> but only slightly
2013-03-05T21:55:44 < gxti> zyp: fair enough
2013-03-05T21:56:04 < gxti> although chibios pretty much resets everything anyway
2013-03-05T21:56:09 < jpa-> my experience with stlink is that it gives you all kinds of funny problems, while openocd gave just headache
2013-03-05T21:56:49 < zyp> my experience with stlink was that it mostly worked perfectly, albeit a little slow, and started to behave funny if it lost connection with target
2013-03-05T21:56:54 < gxti> and none of this has any impact on what happens after i pull the plug, it's not like continuing after load somehow subtly ruins everything forever ;p
2013-03-05T21:57:11 < jpa-> BMP has given just headache so far because zyp keeps telling how awesome it is, but 1) buying it seems difficult and you need to cobble up cables to hook it up to any nice connector  2) i don't really know for which discovery boards it could be flashed and how
2013-03-05T21:57:13 < zyp> slowness was because of lack of F4 flashloader
2013-03-05T21:57:26 < zyp> :p
2013-03-05T21:57:29 < gxti> i made my own instead of buying it
2013-03-05T21:57:38 < gxti> it's pretty nice but sometimes it wigs out
2013-03-05T21:57:45 < jpa-> i don't have the time to do that
2013-03-05T21:57:50 < gxti> i might try openocd+busblaster again just to see if it works now that i have my toolchain worked out
2013-03-05T21:57:50 < zyp> I bought one, then assembled five of emeb's design
2013-03-05T21:58:01 < gxti> jpa-: bullshit, you spend more time doing pointless chats here
2013-03-05T21:58:04 < gxti> just like i do
2013-03-05T21:58:23 < gxti> besides i have parts for two more, i should sell them
2013-03-05T21:58:50 < jpa-> gxti: but i need it for work, and it's not economical for work to spend that much time on it :)
2013-03-05T21:59:08 < zyp> dongs probably still have leftover boards of emeb's design
2013-03-05T21:59:14 < karlp> gxti: texane stlink bitrots badly for the different targets.
2013-03-05T21:59:23 < karlp> l1 is currently totatally hosed (again)
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2013-03-05T22:04:40 < a2cypher> is it possible to build for STM32F103 without libc ?
2013-03-05T22:05:09 < jpa-> sure
2013-03-05T22:05:39 < jpa-> just don't use any libc functions and provide your own reset handler
2013-03-05T22:05:53 < a2cypher> I removed  "-c" from my compile line but it's still trying to pull in some libc junk.   trying to figure out why
2013-03-05T22:06:20 < jpa-> eh, -c has nothing to do with libc
2013-03-05T22:06:57 < jpa-> try   -nostartfiles -eMyFunnyResetHandler
2013-03-05T22:07:11 < a2cypher> I already have my own reset handler.
2013-03-05T22:07:23 < jpa-> then just add -nostartfiles
2013-03-05T22:07:43 < jpa-> -fno-common for extra credit
2013-03-05T22:08:07 < a2cypher> ah.. that seemed to do the trick.  -fno-common  does what?
2013-03-05T22:08:23 < gxti> RTFM
2013-03-05T22:08:34 < jpa-> it removes the default include paths so that you don't accidentally include something you don't want
2013-03-05T22:09:08 < gxti> err, that's not what the manual says
2013-03-05T22:09:27 < jpa-> oooops
2013-03-05T22:09:30 < gxti> "that the compiler should place uninitialized global variables in the data section of the object file"
2013-03-05T22:11:11 < jpa-> -nostdinc
2013-03-05T22:11:26 < jpa-> i wonder why i have -fno-common everywhere
2013-03-05T22:11:38 < jpa-> (-nostdlib is good also)
2013-03-05T22:11:42 < gxti> yep
2013-03-05T22:13:32 < a2cypher> great. thanks.    I've got an STM32F103 with only 16KB Flash that i'm trying to make workable.  Might have to switch to a bigger one.
2013-03-05T22:14:12 < jpa-> what do you want to do with it?
2013-03-05T22:17:20 < a2cypher> it's driving some i2c lcd glass drivers, a couple keypads, and communicating on a canbus
2013-03-05T22:17:57 < a2cypher> not sure why I stupidly put the smallest chip on the board when I should have put a bigger one and swapped it for the smaller one later.  but w/e
2013-03-05T22:18:42 < Tectu> Laurenceb, did I already show you this?
2013-03-05T22:18:43 < Tectu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTxNxa58fNc
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2013-03-05T22:19:41 < elektrinis> installed coocox
2013-03-05T22:19:56 < elektrinis> going through quick start video..
2013-03-05T22:20:23 < elektrinis> when I hit compile, it asks for toolchain path.
2013-03-05T22:20:30 < elektrinis> where do I find it?
2013-03-05T22:21:04 < gxti> i don't remember having to do that :p
2013-03-05T22:21:51 < elektrinis> well, in video it is clearly a lot older version
2013-03-05T22:31:10 < elektrinis> ok, so it looks like coocox comes with no gcc.
2013-03-05T22:35:25 < karlp> so you google "gcc arm launchpad" and install it
2013-03-05T22:36:00 < gxti> i don't remember anything about what i had to do to install it but i'm pretty sure it was nothing
2013-03-05T22:40:27 < a2cypher> care to look at a command?  arm-none-eabi-gcc -L../ -mcpu=cortex-m3 -mthumb -Xlinker -T ../startup/stm32_flash.ld ../startup/startup_stm32f10x_ld.s -o STM32F103 system_stm32f10x.o stm32f10x_it.o main.o core_cm3.o -lstm32
2013-03-05T22:41:02 < a2cypher> For some reason this is giving me undefined reference to '_exit' in libc.a   but I'm not sure how libc.a is getting pulled in.
2013-03-05T22:41:57 < gxti> what happened to -nostdlib?
2013-03-05T22:41:59 < a2cypher> oh wait.. just added -nostdlib
2013-03-05T22:42:09 < a2cypher> yeah,  not sure..  stupid eclipse screwing around I guess.
2013-03-05T22:42:28 < gxti> since you're space constrained you probably also want -ffunction-sections -Wl,--gc-sections
2013-03-05T22:42:34 < gxti> which strips out functions that aren't used
2013-03-05T22:42:50 < gxti> hell, everybody wants that :p
2013-03-05T22:43:03 < a2cypher> I think I added the nostdlib to my compile environment but not linker in eclipse.
2013-03-05T22:43:06 < a2cypher> I may have it fixed
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2013-03-05T22:44:14 < a2cypher> and it looks like the binary is now using less than half of my 16Kb where before it was using >95%
2013-03-05T22:45:59 < elektrinis> ok, so i get this error:
2013-03-05T22:46:00 < elektrinis> expected identifier or '(' before '.' token
2013-03-05T22:46:04 < elektrinis> http://www.coocox.org/forum/topic.php?id=2856#post-7888
2013-03-05T22:46:26 < elektrinis> it seems this is due to incompatible coide and gcc versions
2013-03-05T22:46:40 < elektrinis> gcc treats .c file only as C
2013-03-05T22:46:49 < elektrinis> and there is assembly in it.
2013-03-05T22:46:57 < zyp> you should be able to fit a lot in those 16k, honestly :)
2013-03-05T22:47:01 < elektrinis> if I rename it in file tree, does not help.
2013-03-05T22:47:40 < gxti> i haven't touched coide since i got my loonix toolchain working
2013-03-05T22:47:55 < gxti> the only nice thing about it is that it worked and my toolchain did not
2013-03-05T22:48:06 < gxti> don't even recall what version that was but it was only 2 or 3 months ago
2013-03-05T22:48:38 < gxti> also i was using chibios not anything that ships with coide
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2013-03-05T22:52:57 < qyx_> hm, i compiled whole toolchain on my own using vannila versions of everything and it worked
2013-03-05T22:54:07 < qyx_> except that thare are few lines which need to be uncommented somewhere in libgcc
2013-03-05T22:54:16 < qyx_> or whatever was it
2013-03-05T23:01:41 < Laurenceb_> lol german balloon landed in the river
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2013-03-05T23:02:44 < Laurenceb_> http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=52.303244,8.932679&spn=0.006521,0.021136&t=h&z=16
2013-03-05T23:02:53 < Laurenceb_> yo dawg we heard you like rivers
2013-03-05T23:03:38 < qyx_> i hope it was built with that in mind ^^
2013-03-05T23:04:47 < karlp> a2cypher: if you're using g-a-e, you can use the --specs=nano.specs linker flag too, which might help
2013-03-05T23:04:56 < a2cypher> g-a-e ?
2013-03-05T23:05:14 < karlp> gcc-arm-embedded, from launchpad
2013-03-05T23:05:46 < a2cypher> I think that's the one I've got.   gcc-arm-none-eabie-4_6-2012q4
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2013-03-05T23:05:53 < zyp> it's old
2013-03-05T23:05:59 < zyp> get the 4.7 one
2013-03-05T23:06:07 < zyp> I think the nano stuff was new in 4.7
2013-03-05T23:07:41 < a2cypher> anybody know if you can make eclipse default to hex in the debugger variables/registers ?
2013-03-05T23:13:57 -!- elektrinis [circuit@78.60.169.125] has quit [Quit: pokðt]
2013-03-05T23:22:18 < Laurenceb_> http://www.daveakerman.com/?attachment_id=904 <-omfg
2013-03-05T23:25:10 < karlp> a2cypher: heh, netbeans does that too.  not sure sorry.
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2013-03-05T23:25:35 < ds2> hmmmmmmm
2013-03-05T23:26:18 < ds2> i wonder if the reason stlink works forme is i always tap reset
2013-03-05T23:27:51 < zyp> I never had to do that when I used stlink, so I don't know what you are having problems with
2013-03-05T23:37:09 -!- dirty_d [~adowning@209-213-71-70.meganet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2013-03-05T23:39:06  * TheSeven doesn't have problems with stlink either, apart from a few little bugs
2013-03-05T23:43:47 -!- gnomad [~gnomad@c-71-203-29-67.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2013-03-05T23:45:31 -!- alexn [~alexn@178-27-128-46-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2013-03-05T23:51:55 < gxti> oh look they actually sent me the -001 revision like i asked
2013-03-05T23:52:30 < gxti> also the customs form is marked "cellphone case USD10"
--- Day changed Wed Mar 06 2013
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2013-03-06T00:09:13 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb_: need a screen on the driving wheel
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2013-03-06T00:22:58 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb_ omfg what? You mean the steer is on the wrong side?
2013-03-06T00:24:34 < gxti> my QFN is still fucked, sadface
2013-03-06T00:25:14 <+Steffanx> Uh? You QFN what?
2013-03-06T00:26:28 < gxti> time to go shopping for a hot air station
2013-03-06T00:26:43 <+Steffanx> Oh, your qfn soldering skillz
2013-03-06T00:27:00 < gxti> although i will attempt to assemble another one of these, i have everything for 9 more except magjacks and now that the gps modules at here i can test that part at least
2013-03-06T00:28:36 <+Steffanx> Time for stencils and an oven gxti
2013-03-06T00:29:13 < gxti> that's what i did, the first print was ugly
2013-03-06T00:29:22 <+Steffanx> photos? :)
2013-03-06T00:29:23 < gxti> 50% crappy solder paste, 50% poor skillz
2013-03-06T00:33:01 -!- dirty_d [~andrew@76.118.112.158] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-06T00:33:13 < dirty_d> ello
2013-03-06T00:33:40 <+Steffanx> Lo
2013-03-06T00:34:01 < dirty_d> i copied some traces and pasted in another place in eagle, how do i get it to realize that the pasted traces are actually connecting things?
2013-03-06T00:34:10 < dirty_d> i still see airwires
2013-03-06T00:41:42 < qyx_> eagle cannot copy schematic with layout preserved
2013-03-06T00:42:04 < qyx_> you have to manually route that again or use some ulp script to do that
2013-03-06T00:45:31 < Laurenceb_> heh yeah
2013-03-06T00:45:38 < Laurenceb_> eagle is rather fail sometimes
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2013-03-06T00:46:41 <+Steffanx> Everything that doesnt fit Laurenceb_'s expectations is a fail..
2013-03-06T00:46:49 <+Steffanx> *satisfy
2013-03-06T00:47:29 <+Steffanx> Even when it's based of false information
2013-03-06T00:49:49 < zyp> dirty_d, did you see my latest quadrotor vid? I think it's more stable than yours :p
2013-03-06T00:49:57 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/1JmPf.mp4
2013-03-06T00:50:12 < dirty_d> i havent but im gonna look now
2013-03-06T00:50:44 <+Steffanx> Has dirty_d show a video from his one yet?
2013-03-06T00:50:49 < zyp> yes
2013-03-06T00:50:56 <+Steffanx> Hmm when?
2013-03-06T00:50:59 <+Steffanx> zlog
2013-03-06T00:50:59 < zlog> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-05.html
2013-03-06T00:51:08 < zyp> some youtube link
2013-03-06T00:51:14 < qyx_> zyp: cool
2013-03-06T00:51:39 < zyp> Steffanx, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-8gUVj6i5A
2013-03-06T00:52:21 < qyx_> zyp: whats the freq of your control loop? simple pid?
2013-03-06T00:52:50 < zyp> 400 Hz, so far simple rate-only pid
2013-03-06T00:53:42 < mervaka> ah, good old controller design.
2013-03-06T00:53:53 < mervaka> we've started hitting the exam revision with that. oh my..
2013-03-06T00:54:01 < mervaka> scary how much i don't yet know
2013-03-06T00:54:44 < zyp> I'm planning to keep it simple and get it tuned well in rate mode before I bother doing attitude feedback
2013-03-06T00:55:23 < zyp> it should be easily flyable in rate mode when it's well tuned
2013-03-06T00:55:44 < dirty_d> zyp, wow that looks really stable
2013-03-06T00:55:49 < dirty_d> like cartoonish stable
2013-03-06T00:55:50 < dirty_d> lol
2013-03-06T00:56:42 < dirty_d> it didnt looks that stable last tim i dont think
2013-03-06T00:56:45 < dirty_d> what did you change?
2013-03-06T00:57:08 <+Steffanx> Wasn't the last time without an actual control loop?
2013-03-06T00:57:18 <+Steffanx> *the one before this
2013-03-06T00:57:19 < qyx_> i have been trying to tune the pid for almost two days
2013-03-06T00:57:20 < dirty_d> oh was it?
2013-03-06T00:57:40 < dirty_d> qyx_, on a quadcopter?
2013-03-06T00:57:44 < qyx_> hexa
2013-03-06T00:57:47 < dirty_d> ahh
2013-03-06T00:57:52 < dirty_d> mines not stable at all
2013-03-06T00:58:00 < dirty_d> i think its die to the ESCs
2013-03-06T00:58:02 < dirty_d> due*
2013-03-06T00:58:16 <+Steffanx> You also need it in your room hanging on a wire
2013-03-06T00:58:22 < dirty_d> i can hear the motors take over a second to fully change speed when i move the pitch/roll stick around
2013-03-06T00:58:28 < dirty_d> Steffanx, i dont want to die
2013-03-06T00:58:46 < qyx_> i have escs with custom firmware, that could be a problem, but their response is fairly good
2013-03-06T00:58:59 < dirty_d> i just send an email to the simonk guy
2013-03-06T00:59:16 < zyp> qyx_, that's the nice part of hanging it from the ceiling and tuning it with a midi controller; it's quick :p
2013-03-06T00:59:17 < dirty_d> im gonna flash these escs with his firmware
2013-03-06T00:59:24 < dirty_d> its gonna be a pain in the ass
2013-03-06T00:59:41 < qyx_> zyp: i also used that technique
2013-03-06T00:59:41 < dirty_d> theyre qfn32 and theyre locked
2013-03-06T00:59:49 < qyx_> zyp: but misused 3D mouse for that
2013-03-06T00:59:53 < dirty_d> so i need to but new ATMEGA8s and make an adapter board to flash them
2013-03-06T00:59:56 < dirty_d> then replace them
2013-03-06T01:00:19 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/x491b.png <- I had it oscillating, and then I dialed Kp down until it stabilized
2013-03-06T01:00:27 <+Steffanx> Locked how dirty_d ?
2013-03-06T01:00:37 < dirty_d> Steffanx, the reset pin is disabled
2013-03-06T01:00:39 < qyx_> my escs have mega16 on them and some microchip spi can controller and also rs384 transceiver
2013-03-06T01:00:46 < dirty_d> it can only be reset by high voltage parallel programming
2013-03-06T01:00:50 < qyx_> considering replacing with stm32
2013-03-06T01:01:02 < dirty_d> zyp, what is your P value
2013-03-06T01:01:08 <+Steffanx> Oh, wonderful. There is actually someone who does that :)
2013-03-06T01:01:22 < dirty_d> Steffanx, what do you mean?
2013-03-06T01:01:36 <+Steffanx> Disabling the reset pin to make it 'unprogrammable'
2013-03-06T01:01:41 < zyp> dirty_d, around 0.3
2013-03-06T01:01:53 < Laurenceb_> thats a pointless bit of info
2013-03-06T01:01:56 < zyp> and Ki is a bit above 0.2
2013-03-06T01:01:56 < Laurenceb_> without units
2013-03-06T01:01:57 < dirty_d> zyp, i had to set mine to 0.0625 to get rid of bad oscillations
2013-03-06T01:02:04 < dirty_d> and my motors are way more poweful too
2013-03-06T01:02:08 < dirty_d> so somethings wrong
2013-03-06T01:02:24 < dirty_d> zyp, is the input to your pid angle in radians?
2013-03-06T01:02:31 < zyp> yes
2013-03-06T01:02:35 < dirty_d> doesnt mean much if im using different units etc
2013-03-06T01:02:54 < dirty_d> my outputs just get summed and clamped from 0 - 1
2013-03-06T01:03:04 < dirty_d> and thats used as the power for each motor
2013-03-06T01:03:19 < qyx_> how is it done on hexacopters? i used simple vector rotation (to make a "sloped" plane) and used Z-values of that as motor power
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2013-03-06T01:03:24 < zyp> input is radians and output is relative to 100% throttle
2013-03-06T01:03:32 < dirty_d> zyp, me too
2013-03-06T01:03:51 < dirty_d> throttle is added to it right?
2013-03-06T01:03:57 < zyp> yes
2013-03-06T01:04:00 < dirty_d> ok
2013-03-06T01:04:28 < dirty_d> im pretty sure its the ESCs
2013-03-06T01:04:51 < dirty_d> i checked all the calculated angles and all that over usb
2013-03-06T01:04:53 < dirty_d> all looked great
2013-03-06T01:05:06 < dirty_d> no noise really
2013-03-06T01:05:09 < dirty_d> and no delay
2013-03-06T01:05:18 < zyp> http://paste.jvnv.net/view/pFsCY <- my code looks like this
2013-03-06T01:05:29 < zyp> I haven't bothered adding in the clamping yet :p
2013-03-06T01:05:51 < dirty_d> yea thats pretty much the same thing im doing
2013-03-06T01:06:52 < Simon--> you sent me an email?
2013-03-06T01:06:54 < dirty_d> i think the high current ESCS have a really big IIR filter since they dont have current limiting
2013-03-06T01:07:05 < dirty_d> Simon--, you jsut tripped me out
2013-03-06T01:07:24 < Simon--> ok :)
2013-03-06T01:07:41 < dirty_d> Simon--, did that all sound resonable?
2013-03-06T01:08:46 < Simon--> trying to find which email account you sent it to
2013-03-06T01:09:03 < dirty_d> sim@netsomething
2013-03-06T01:09:07 < dirty_d> the one on github
2013-03-06T01:09:31 < Simon--> ah hang on, that's my work one, a bit behind ;)
2013-03-06T01:12:45 < Simon--> oh. yah
2013-03-06T01:13:27 < Simon--> I know the guys with HK200A doing ~5kW with them on fairly heavy props do need to ramp up the throttle to avoid overcurrenting them
2013-03-06T01:14:05 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Quit: zzzzZZzzz]
2013-03-06T01:14:21 < Simon--> I'll reply
2013-03-06T01:14:42 < dirty_d> im only drawing 40A at full throttle, so hopefully it will be ok if i filter throttle input or something
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2013-03-06T01:18:49 < Simon--> it really depends on how heavy your load is, too
2013-03-06T01:19:01 < Simon--> dirty_d: you sure those are ir2100s?
2013-03-06T01:19:20 < Simon--> not ir2101s?
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2013-03-06T01:23:48 < dirty_d> they are ir2101
2013-03-06T01:23:53 < dirty_d> it2101s
2013-03-06T01:24:01 < dirty_d> damnit
2013-03-06T01:24:05 < dirty_d> ir2101s
2013-03-06T01:26:48 < Laurenceb_> <dirty_d> im only drawing 40A at full throttle,
2013-03-06T01:26:51 < Laurenceb_> only O_o
2013-03-06T01:27:13 < zyp> 40A at full throttle is not that bad
2013-03-06T01:27:31 < zyp> 40A at hover however
2013-03-06T01:27:46 < zyp> oh, wait, this is per motor
2013-03-06T01:27:57 < zyp> I retract my statement :D
2013-03-06T01:28:12 < dirty_d> lol
2013-03-06T01:28:16 < dirty_d> but i have 4 batteries
2013-03-06T01:28:31 < Simon--> replied
2013-03-06T01:28:42 < dongs> donging ondongs
2013-03-06T01:28:46 < zyp> dirty_d, I'm testing without any batteries :D
2013-03-06T01:28:53 < Simon--> was trying 17" carbon prop on some sunnysky pancake at 6S the other day and could barely see any current spike
2013-03-06T01:29:11 < Laurenceb_> http://www.discospock.com/humor/placards/Danger_20E6_Ohms_v4.gif
2013-03-06T01:29:24 < dirty_d> Simon--, just read it
2013-03-06T01:29:39 < dirty_d> i guess ill try that firmware, i didnt notice it was the same
2013-03-06T01:30:00 < dirty_d> im gonna have to buy new avrs and make a board first though
2013-03-06T01:30:05 < Simon--> boards in that size and up are typically one of rb50a/hk200a, rb70a, birdie70a
2013-03-06T01:30:09 < Simon--> you broke the avrs?
2013-03-06T01:30:20 < dirty_d> Simon--, no pretty sure the reset fuse is locked
2013-03-06T01:30:28 < dirty_d> and they are QFN32
2013-03-06T01:30:39 < Simon--> really.. I've never seen one >=40A with rst fuse locked
2013-03-06T01:30:54 < dirty_d> Simon--, the reset pin isnt connected to anything
2013-03-06T01:31:03 < dirty_d> the trace ends where the 10K resistor would go
2013-03-06T01:31:13 < dirty_d> theres a spot for it, its just not populated
2013-03-06T01:31:25 < zyp> avr has internal pullup on reset though
2013-03-06T01:31:29 < dirty_d> hmm
2013-03-06T01:31:32 < dirty_d> maybe its not locked then
2013-03-06T01:31:49 < dirty_d> but theres no way i can solder tiny wires to the pins to program it
2013-03-06T01:32:04 < Simon--> dirty_d: usually they're lazy and forget the pull-up
2013-03-06T01:32:07 < zyp> no programming pads? how was it programmed at factory?
2013-03-06T01:32:14 < dirty_d> zyp, no idea
2013-03-06T01:32:22 < dirty_d> but none of the programming pins are connected to anything
2013-03-06T01:32:35 < Simon--> for qfp, depending on how much pad is exposed, I've soldered a couple wires and held pins for sck/miso/mosi
2013-03-06T01:32:49 < dirty_d> Simon--, QFN
2013-03-06T01:32:57 < Simon--> srry, qfn/mlf
2013-03-06T01:32:57 < zyp> qfp is easy, qfn is a bit worse
2013-03-06T01:33:04 < dirty_d> oh you managed to do that?
2013-03-06T01:33:22 < zyp> but with visible pads on qfn it should be doable
2013-03-06T01:34:10 < dirty_d> gotta take off, Simon-- thanks for the help
2013-03-06T01:34:11 < Simon--> it's doable. even used manu's silicone plug on one
2013-03-06T01:34:12 < Simon--> http://0x.ca/~sim/esc/RCTimer_CBS003/
2013-03-06T01:34:13 < Simon--> k
2013-03-06T01:34:20 < dirty_d> ok ill take a look at that later
2013-03-06T01:37:35 < Simon--> boot loader activated on those is certainly nice for later
2013-03-06T01:39:37 < Laurenceb_> ive used "fast and tiny avr bootloader"
2013-03-06T01:39:56 < Laurenceb_> before many times, but it failed epically on one of my hab flights
2013-03-06T01:40:03 < Laurenceb_> got stuck in a loop
2013-03-06T01:49:57 < Simon--> hrmm
2013-03-06T01:50:07 < Simon--> well, I include one I wrote with my .hex files normally
2013-03-06T01:50:16 < Simon--> works with turnigy usb linker stuff
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2013-03-06T02:51:54 < gxti> paste stencils are fucking obnoxious, i think i might just get a pneumatic dispenser. much less cleanup.
2013-03-06T02:55:03 < gxti> board #2 came out dead short
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2013-03-06T03:39:14 < dongs> whawt
2013-03-06T03:39:20 < dongs> how the fuck did you use them?
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2013-03-06T03:45:48 < gxti> actually maybe not dead short, the smps is fucked but i'm done with this for today
2013-03-06T03:46:06 < dongs> what stencil did you use and howdid you fuck it up
2013-03-06T03:46:08 < gxti> obviously the problems i'm having are due to uneven application but even if i had the technique down stencils are still messy
2013-03-06T03:47:05 < gxti> also the paste itself is shit
2013-03-06T03:47:58 < dongs> well, garbage in, garbage out, no?
2013-03-06T03:48:03 < gxti> yes
2013-03-06T03:48:07 < dongs> i use metal stencils, proper stencil printer, and proper paste
2013-03-06T03:48:10 < dongs> and I have zero issues.
2013-03-06T03:48:28 < gxti> i'm not buying metal stencils for myself to use
2013-03-06T03:48:34 < gxti> costs as much as the boards
2013-03-06T03:48:52 < dongs> mine are fairly cheap and I can panel as many designs as i want into them
2013-03-06T03:53:28 < gxti> anyway, not going to find out if these gps modules work because now i'm in a shitty mood and i'm not going to dick with this today
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2013-03-06T05:07:16 < dirty_d> hopefully this works, http://i.imgur.com/SwoS3hJ.jpg
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2013-03-06T05:18:22 < gxti> looks better than mine did
2013-03-06T05:19:04 < dirty_d> is it save to power it via usb like this?
2013-03-06T05:19:10 < dirty_d> connected to the output of the 5v regulator
2013-03-06T05:19:26 < gxti> i do that sometimes
2013-03-06T05:19:39 < dirty_d> ok
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2013-03-06T05:22:53 < dongs> sup blogs
2013-03-06T05:23:25 < dongs> LOL
2013-03-06T05:23:29 < dongs> what is that fat rework wire
2013-03-06T05:23:35 < dongs> was that under shrink?
2013-03-06T05:33:06 < dirty_d> thats there fro the factory, lol
2013-03-06T05:33:08 < dirty_d> yea
2013-03-06T05:37:05 < dongs> awesome
2013-03-06T05:44:39 < dirty_d> cant remember how the hell to get avrdude to work
2013-03-06T05:45:02 < Erlkoenig> avrdude -U flash:w:foo.hex:i
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2013-03-06T05:46:52 < Erlkoenig> http://www.torquato.de/mall/1/pic/it33900278.jpg  how's this kind of pen called in English? dictionary says just "pen"
2013-03-06T05:47:23 < dongs> fountain pen
2013-03-06T05:47:37 < Erlkoenig> ah... funny
2013-03-06T05:47:48 < dongs> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_pen
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2013-03-06T05:49:00 < Erlkoenig> looks like some people can't write with those anymore :o)
2013-03-06T05:49:23 < dongs> i cant even write with a regular one
2013-03-06T05:49:34 < Erlkoenig> heh...
2013-03-06T05:50:55 < ds2> writing is overrated anyways
2013-03-06T05:51:20 < Erlkoenig> depends...when i studied maths it was essential ^^
2013-03-06T05:51:35 < ds2> math is greek anyways
2013-03-06T05:51:36 < dirty_d> sweet on of my wires fell off
2013-03-06T05:51:43 < dirty_d> hopefull thats why it wasnt working, lol
2013-03-06T05:53:58 < dirty_d> oh hell yea it works
2013-03-06T05:55:07 < Erlkoenig> what does it do=
2013-03-06T05:55:09 < Erlkoenig> ?
2013-03-06T05:56:53 < dirty_d> avrdude: Device signature = 0x1e9307
2013-03-06T05:56:58 < dirty_d> just works, i havent flashed it yet
2013-03-06T06:00:10 < Erlkoenig> i am so talented in shorting batteries
2013-03-06T06:00:26 < dirty_d> look at this shit show http://i.imgur.com/lNMsn01.jpg
2013-03-06T06:00:49 < dirty_d> i dont want to have to do this 3 more times
2013-03-06T06:05:08 < Erlkoenig> wow. there's a 1mm gap in the wire. nice shortcut
2013-03-06T06:05:12 < Erlkoenig> short circuit
2013-03-06T06:06:18 < dirty_d> huh
2013-03-06T06:06:41 < dirty_d> i just flashed it
2013-03-06T06:07:03 < dirty_d> dont have a motor or batteris here to try it
2013-03-06T06:09:34 < dirty_d> talking about the missing insulation?
2013-03-06T06:10:45 < Erlkoenig> no, about my own circuit, which i shorted accidentally, and which subsequently got a gap in a wire which was apparantly weaker than the fuse...
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2013-03-06T06:12:09 < dirty_d> oh
2013-03-06T06:12:48 < Erlkoenig> i need a power limiting PSU...
2013-03-06T06:12:54 < Erlkoenig> s/power/current
2013-03-06T06:14:31 < dirty_d> that would be nice
2013-03-06T06:14:50 < Erlkoenig> and save ;D
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2013-03-06T11:15:13 < qyx_> hm, i have 1117 vreg and increasing current by 10mA causes 0.4V voltage drop on output, something is wrong
2013-03-06T11:15:48 < jpa-> which input voltage, which output voltage?
2013-03-06T11:16:03 < qyx_> vin=9V vout=5V
2013-03-06T11:17:00 < qyx_> it's even visible on power led when i enable rs485 transceiver
2013-03-06T11:19:24 < jpa-> is the vout voltage otherwise ok?
2013-03-06T11:20:06 < qyx_> i suppose so, doesn't have scope here, but everything is working
2013-03-06T11:20:25 < qyx_> filtered 300uF, 1uF, 100nF
2013-03-06T11:20:30 < qyx_> 330
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2013-03-06T12:08:05 < dongs> uh
2013-03-06T12:28:43 -!- jon1012 [~jon@foresight/developer/jon1012] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-06T12:48:57 < Laurenceb> attn dongs
2013-03-06T12:48:58 < Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/06/miguel_desktop_linux_chernobyl/
2013-03-06T12:49:25 < Laurenceb> also, read the first comment
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2013-03-06T13:30:57 < dongs> attn Laurenceb http://kotaku.com/5912573/japanese-vending-machines-selling-you-hallucinogenic-herb-for-sexy-good-times
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2013-03-06T13:47:06 < zyp> dongs, sup? done anything interesting lately?
2013-03-06T13:47:32 < dongs> nah, fucking dealing with bullshit lunix fail
2013-03-06T13:47:38 < dongs> no time for other shit
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2013-03-06T15:00:58  * Laurenceb is trying to get Koay inversion working in matlab...
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2013-03-06T15:03:08  * Laurenceb is failing
2013-03-06T15:03:23 < Laurenceb> tiem to use a failpackage... http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/fileexchange/14237
2013-03-06T15:06:13 <+Steffanx> Call the new papers!
2013-03-06T15:06:17 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb is failing
2013-03-06T15:07:07 < Laurenceb> winning now with a fresh infusion of copypasta
2013-03-06T15:07:44 <+Steffanx> Removed the space?
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2013-03-06T15:49:00 < Laurenceb> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg2ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
2013-03-06T15:49:04 < Laurenceb> omfgwtf
2013-03-06T15:50:09 < zyp> you should invest before it crashes
2013-03-06T15:51:39 < Laurenceb> heh
2013-03-06T15:51:44 < Laurenceb> too late,,,
2013-03-06T15:51:57 < Laurenceb> i cant see it getting much higher, but i said that at 25$
2013-03-06T15:53:32 < zyp> I'm wondering what is driving the price upwards
2013-03-06T15:55:19 < Laurenceb> demand for mega pr0n
2013-03-06T15:55:20 <+Steffanx> bitcoins :')
2013-03-06T15:58:15 < jpa-> zyp: drug trade :)
2013-03-06T15:58:56 <+Steffanx> Yeah sorry, i sold all of my stuff
2013-03-06T15:59:12 < Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MvRgYjHNQxc#t=123s
2013-03-06T15:59:17 <+Steffanx> but i have a few gram left for jpa-
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2013-03-06T16:03:32 <+Steffanx> How you do that in real life Laurenceb ?
2013-03-06T16:03:44 <+Steffanx> You always have your fancy phone with youtube near you?
2013-03-06T16:04:01 < Laurenceb> lol
2013-03-06T16:04:05 <+Steffanx> "Wait wait! I have a (un)related video"
2013-03-06T16:10:26 < Laurenceb> http://www.silabs.com/products/mcu/lowpower/Pages/SiM3L1xx.aspx
2013-03-06T16:10:30 < Laurenceb> interesting
2013-03-06T16:12:39 <+Steffanx> "These MCUs are the lowest power 32-bit devices" marketing blabla
2013-03-06T16:12:41 <+Steffanx> they all say that :D
2013-03-06T16:13:15 < Laurenceb> well its better than stm32l1
2013-03-06T16:13:21 < Laurenceb> by a large margin
2013-03-06T16:13:38 < Laurenceb> and l1 is about the same as msp430, but better core
2013-03-06T16:13:49 < Laurenceb> and energy micro is a little better than l1
2013-03-06T16:13:57 < Laurenceb> so it looks like the best to me
2013-03-06T16:14:15 < Laurenceb> very impressive
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2013-03-06T16:21:55 <+Steffanx> They should make a discovery-ish board too :)
2013-03-06T16:24:24 < karlp> how much does it cost Laurenceb ?
2013-03-06T16:24:33 < Laurenceb> dunno
2013-03-06T16:25:11 < karlp> meh, tqpf 60,
2013-03-06T16:25:14 <+Steffanx> oh, they have a discovery-ish board
2013-03-06T16:25:15 < karlp> no qfp for the smaller packages
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2013-03-06T16:25:35 <+Steffanx> You NEED qfp?
2013-03-06T16:26:35 < zyp> oh, that's the ones with integrated buck
2013-03-06T16:28:02 < zyp> hmm, 3.8V in max
2013-03-06T16:28:13 < zyp> so a fully charged lipo would be out of spec
2013-03-06T16:28:58 <+Steffanx> wonderful :)
2013-03-06T16:29:19 < Laurenceb> fail
2013-03-06T16:30:43 < jpa-> so use lifepo
2013-03-06T16:31:39 < zyp> fair point
2013-03-06T16:32:00 < jpa-> though if you want 3.3 V io voltages lifepo is very annoying
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2013-03-06T16:46:27 < Laurenceb> lipo will just about run 3.3v with a ldo
2013-03-06T16:46:35 < Laurenceb> Ti make some nice low drop regs
2013-03-06T16:46:41 < Laurenceb> like 50mv O_o
2013-03-06T16:46:51 < zyp> yep
2013-03-06T16:47:24 < Laurenceb> ive used them for sepic convertor designs
2013-03-06T16:47:51 < Laurenceb> sepic -> 3.5V with large tantalum -> filtering network -> 3.3v ldo
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2013-03-06T16:56:46 < karlp> hmm, $5 each, plenty of analog, no eeprom though.
2013-03-06T16:56:55 < karlp> does seem very low power
2013-03-06T16:57:14 <+Steffanx> Is there a Cortex-m3/4 with eeprom?
2013-03-06T16:57:38 < karlp> sure, l1
2013-03-06T16:57:47 < karlp> also, kinetis chips have "flex memory"
2013-03-06T16:58:08 < karlp> which can be configured as eeprom, in as much as they handle the flash paging and rotation for you
2013-03-06T16:58:34 <+Steffanx> Ah, I didn't know the l1 has eeprom
2013-03-06T16:58:59 < karlp> it's handy :)
2013-03-06T16:59:27 <+Steffanx> I never really needed it :)
2013-03-06T16:59:38 <+Steffanx> Note to self: stop using :)
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2013-03-06T17:33:06 < Tectu> what are the reasons to use en EEprom instead of the internal flash?
2013-03-06T17:35:44 < zyp> durability and erase granularity
2013-03-06T17:36:02 < zyp> flash is block-erase, eeprom is word-erase
2013-03-06T17:36:41 < zyp> so if you want to only overwrite part of a flash page you need to back up the other contents
2013-03-06T17:37:01 < Tectu> I see
2013-03-06T17:44:28 < MrMobius> do you have to load that page into ram and modify it before writing or can the flash controller rewrite the whole thing for you when you want to change only a part?
2013-03-06T17:46:01 < MrMobius> i was asking about this myself yesterday
2013-03-06T17:46:36 <+Steffanx> I think the former is what zyp meant by "backup the other contents"
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2013-03-06T17:47:24 <+Steffanx> So read the entire page into ram, modify it, erase the page and write it back. ( or so )
2013-03-06T17:47:52 <+Steffanx> Morning sir emeb
2013-03-06T17:48:06 < emeb> Hi Steffanx
2013-03-06T17:48:21 < emeb> What's new & exciting?
2013-03-06T17:48:28 <+Steffanx> Nothing
2013-03-06T17:48:46 < zyp> aww
2013-03-06T17:48:46 < emeb> Nothing's new and excitement is overrated.
2013-03-06T17:49:07 < zyp> emeb, anything new and exciting over there then?
2013-03-06T17:49:31 < emeb> Not really.
2013-03-06T17:49:46 <+Steffanx> Nothing is not overrated. It's the null of VB :P
2013-03-06T17:49:47 < emeb> Saw "District 9" last night. Interesting flick.
2013-03-06T17:51:10 < karlp> I loved it
2013-03-06T17:51:47 < karlp> Steffanx: and hope you didn't loser power while writing it back.
2013-03-06T17:51:52 < karlp> normally you _don't_ do it like that.
2013-03-06T17:52:03 < karlp> you use more than one page of flash
2013-03-06T17:52:12 <+Steffanx> Oh, yes you could do that too :P
2013-03-06T17:52:17 < karlp> there's plenty of app notes on the topic from all the manufacturers
2013-03-06T17:52:32 < karlp> freescale just went and built one of the app notes into their cores
2013-03-06T17:52:54 < karlp> eeprom also normally has far more write cycles than flash
2013-03-06T17:53:17 < karlp> so you have to use more pages in flash to get the same number of writes and so on.
2013-03-06T17:53:27 < karlp> their flexnvram stuff lets you tune that tradeoff
2013-03-06T17:53:42 < karlp> (according to the docs, never actually used it)
2013-03-06T17:54:44 < emeb> did you see that research on sudden power cycling SSDs that was done recently?
2013-03-06T17:54:54 <+Steffanx> Just don't lose power, solves everything karlp :)
2013-03-06T17:55:11 <+Steffanx> (note to self: remember note)
2013-03-06T17:55:56 < emeb> http://coverclock.blogspot.de/2013/03/hard-power-off-is-dead-but-not-buried.html?m=1
2013-03-06T17:56:30 < karlp> if you don't lose power, you don't need eeprom, just keep it in ram :)
2013-03-06T17:57:00 < emeb> you don't need memory - just store it in the cloud.
2013-03-06T17:57:06 <+Steffanx> Your app has to be a little foolproof ..
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2013-03-06T18:10:14 < trepidaciousMBR> What's the "max interface clock" in the table of timer capabilities for the STM32? I understand the "timer clock" column, but not the interface...
2013-03-06T18:11:54 < jpa-> what table?
2013-03-06T18:12:50 < trepidaciousMBR> Table 3 in the datasheet
2013-03-06T18:13:00 < jpa-> datasheet of which device?
2013-03-06T18:13:02 < gxti> probably means you can't use DMA to read at max speed
2013-03-06T18:13:08 < gxti> which you wouldn't do anyway
2013-03-06T18:13:11 < trepidaciousMBR> Ah sorry, STM32F4 ;)
2013-03-06T18:13:39 < gxti> also for example F1 has timers connected to APB1 which has a max speed of 36mhz while the cpu is 72mhz, but the timer still runs at 72mhz
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2013-03-06T18:14:35 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: it is the max clock speed of the APB interface (APB1 or APB2) the timer is hooked into
2013-03-06T18:14:51 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: so it is the max speed at which you can write/read from the timer registers
2013-03-06T18:14:58 < trepidaciousMBR> Ah ok, so for example PWM generation won't be affected by that, great
2013-03-06T18:15:42 < jpa-> not unless you want to change your PWM settings every 4th clock cycle :P
2013-03-06T18:15:51 < trepidaciousMBR> Excellent, thanks :)
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2013-03-06T18:41:23 < MrMobius> i can get some loose stm32s but i dont have a board. is it feasible to program one with an ftdi cable?
2013-03-06T18:41:57 < jpa-> er, what?
2013-03-06T18:42:30 < jpa-> sure, you can use the serial bootloader to program them, but that still means you need to connect it up
2013-03-06T18:42:44 < MrMobius> yeah
2013-03-06T18:42:50 < zyp> deadbug? :p
2013-03-06T18:43:04 < MrMobius> do you need more  than caps, resistors, and a steady 3 volts?
2013-03-06T18:43:06 < jpa-> or by "no board" you mean no programmer?
2013-03-06T18:43:15 < zyp> MrMobius, no
2013-03-06T18:43:19 < jpa-> not really, that's enough
2013-03-06T18:43:24 < jpa-> crystal is optional
2013-03-06T18:43:37 < zyp> there aren't really any resistors required either
2013-03-06T18:43:43 < MrMobius> ah ok
2013-03-06T18:44:18 < zyp> the absolute minimum is a stable decoupled power supply, and BOOTx pins tied either high or low
2013-03-06T18:44:45 < MrMobius> yeah
2013-03-06T18:44:46 < zyp> if you want to use the bootloader you probably want a pull resistor on at least one of the BOOTx pins
2013-03-06T18:44:55 < Tectu> Erlkoenig, was tut dein ruby build tool?
2013-03-06T18:45:08 < Erlkoenig> funktionieren :D
2013-03-06T18:45:11 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-06T18:45:13 < Tectu> fein?
2013-03-06T18:45:46 < Erlkoenig> "fein"??
2013-03-06T18:45:49 < MrMobius> zyp, whats the dfference? you have to write our own bootloader if you dont enable the built in one?
2013-03-06T18:46:11 < Tectu> Erlkoenig, obs fein rennt oder eher nicht :P
2013-03-06T18:46:19 < jpa-> MrMobius: you need a way to program the mcu.. either using a SWD/JTAG adapter or by using USART bootloader
2013-03-06T18:46:21 < Erlkoenig> doch klar rennt ziemlich gut
2013-03-06T18:46:31 < jpa-> MrMobius: i assume your "FTDI cable" means a USB serial port
2013-03-06T18:46:44 < zyp> http://paste.jvnv.net/view/kgjJE
2013-03-06T18:46:46 < Erlkoenig> besonders für STM32F4 Projekte...
2013-03-06T18:47:07 < Tectu> Erlkoenig, wie kommts?
2013-03-06T18:47:29 < Erlkoenig> weil ich das für sowas gemacht hab
2013-03-06T18:47:40 < Tectu> Erlkoenig, wie viel würds mich kosten?
2013-03-06T18:47:49 < Erlkoenig> ist opensource du fogel
2013-03-06T18:48:11 < Tectu> ja, aber nen bj oder so willst du ja sicher?
2013-03-06T18:48:29 < Erlkoenig> nä grad keine lust
2013-03-06T18:48:38 < Tectu> k
2013-03-06T18:48:41 < Tectu> wo gibbet dat?
2013-03-06T18:48:54 < Erlkoenig> http://games.2g2s.de/?page_id=64
2013-03-06T18:49:18 < Tectu> games 2 girls 2 sticks?
2013-03-06T18:49:46 < Erlkoenig> äh...
2013-03-06T18:50:21 < MrMobius> jpa-, yeah, usb serial port or similar
2013-03-06T18:50:47 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-06T18:54:08 < zyp> ok, this is fun: http://paste.jvnv.net/view/ycDzx
2013-03-06T18:58:55 < zyp> even more fun: http://paste.jvnv.net/view/cJDof
2013-03-06T19:12:35 < Tectu> zyp, and that is? (yes, a memory examining)
2013-03-06T19:12:50 < Erlkoenig> teh m4tr1x
2013-03-06T19:17:53 < qyx_> MrMobius: i use ftdi cable all the time, don't have any other programmer/debugger
2013-03-06T19:18:18 < qyx_> with openocd (and maybe other tools) you can use it in mpsse mode as jtag programmer
2013-03-06T19:18:54 < Tectu> qyx_, do you do printf() only debugging?
2013-03-06T19:19:18 < qyx_> no, xou can debug normally using that
2013-03-06T19:19:28 < MrMobius> qyx_, is there any advantage to using the jtag programmer other than debugging?
2013-03-06T19:21:07 < zyp> Tectu, bmp bug with unaligned reads, I just realized that the bmp I grabbed and taped to the quadrotor was still running an old version that didn't have those fixed
2013-03-06T19:22:03 < Tectu> zyp, with bmp you don't mean a bitmap image thing, right?
2013-03-06T19:22:17 < zyp> blackmagic probe
2013-03-06T19:22:20 < Tectu> qyx_, you can debugg with GDB using the serial bootloader?
2013-03-06T19:22:23 < Tectu> zyp, oh, sorry
2013-03-06T19:22:42 < Tectu> zyp, with BMP, you don't need something like OpenOCD or texane, right? your GDB directly connects to the donge?
2013-03-06T19:22:49 < qyx_> Tectu: no, ftdi cable doesn't automatically mean usb->serial adapter
2013-03-06T19:23:05 < Tectu> qyx_, oh
2013-03-06T19:23:06 < zyp> Tectu, yep, because the gdbserver is running on the dongle itself
2013-03-06T19:23:12 < Tectu> zyp, is that good?
2013-03-06T19:23:17 < zyp> yes.
2013-03-06T19:23:58 < Tectu> should I consider getting one?
2013-03-06T19:24:08 < Tectu> it's not that expensive as far as I remember, right?
2013-03-06T19:24:18 < Tectu> oh wait, the new version dosen't come with a 20-pin JTAG, right?
2013-03-06T19:24:29 < zyp> I think it was $60 or so
2013-03-06T19:25:03 < zyp> but it's opensource so you are free to do your own
2013-03-06T19:25:46 < zyp> I built myself a bunch of emeb's design that has both the mini-10pin, a female 20-pin and st-link style 6-pin
2013-03-06T19:26:01 < zyp> http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/embedded/bmp2/index.html
2013-03-06T19:27:15 < Tectu> that's nice
2013-03-06T19:27:17 < Tectu> does he sell it?
2013-03-06T19:27:21 <+Steffanx> bom is .xls  :')
2013-03-06T19:28:07 < zyp> Tectu, I think he just wanted some for himself
2013-03-06T19:28:15 < Tectu> I see
2013-03-06T19:28:17 < zyp> as did I, so I got some boards and assembled myself
2013-03-06T19:28:21 < Tectu> and you work well with that one?
2013-03-06T19:28:32 < Tectu> it is a simple two layer board, right?
2013-03-06T19:28:35 < zyp> dongs did the boards, so he might have some left over
2013-03-06T19:28:36 < zyp> yes
2013-03-06T19:28:55 < Tectu> dongs, got some boards left over?
2013-03-06T19:29:15 < zyp> otherwise you could just get the gerbers from emeb and submit them to oshpark or something
2013-03-06T19:29:18 < Tectu> ah, and the not soldered UART connection was to program the MCU?
2013-03-06T19:29:23 < zyp> no
2013-03-06T19:29:36 < zyp> well, that's probably also possible
2013-03-06T19:29:46 < Tectu> how did you program it?
2013-03-06T19:29:49 < qyx_> you should program the jtag programmer using another jtag programmer!
2013-03-06T19:30:11 < zyp> Tectu, see the soldered 4-pin header? that's for programming the chip
2013-03-06T19:30:32 < Tectu> zyp, I see
2013-03-06T19:30:41 < Tectu> ah, that's SWD?
2013-03-06T19:30:48 < zyp> yes
2013-03-06T19:31:01 < zyp> I didn't solder that on mine, I just used a loose header that I held to the pads for long enough to program the usb bootloader
2013-03-06T19:31:04 < Tectu> that's STLink magic you could do with your discovery, right?
2013-03-06T19:31:43 < ntfreak> Tectu: http://embdev.net/articles/STM_Discovery_as_Black_Magic_Probe
2013-03-06T19:31:52 < zyp> Tectu, sure
2013-03-06T19:32:23 < zyp> ntfreak, oh, that's nice
2013-03-06T19:32:29 < ntfreak> and code https://github.com/UweBonnes/blackmagic
2013-03-06T19:32:44 < Tectu> ntfreak, wow you can directly but the BMP2 on the f4?
2013-03-06T19:33:10 < Tectu> ntfreak, that's in fact very nice, I thank you for the hint!
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2013-03-06T19:35:34 < Tectu> that guy... copying 2'000 lines of C-Array in top of main.c
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2013-03-06T19:36:11 < Laurenceb> RAGE
2013-03-06T19:36:21 < Tectu> it scrolls like shit
2013-03-06T19:36:23  * Laurenceb has a load of board with the wrong photodiodes
2013-03-06T19:36:25 -!- MrMobius [~Joey@194.176.111.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2013-03-06T19:36:54 < Laurenceb> funtimes
2013-03-06T19:37:59 < Laurenceb> Silicon photodiode on 8mm ceramic substrate coated with IR blocking filter
2013-03-06T19:38:03 < Laurenceb> *facepalm*
2013-03-06T19:38:17 < Tectu> huh?
2013-03-06T19:38:29  * Laurenceb is trying to use photodiode for IR.. someone swapped the BOM
2013-03-06T19:38:37 < Laurenceb> got the IR filtered photodiodes
2013-03-06T19:39:06 < ntfreak> and for those that want to return the stlink to stock, this is supposed to be the firmware (including bootloader) - http://forum.easyelectronics.ru/download/file.php?id=13372
2013-03-06T19:39:06 < ntfreak> I have not tested but other ahev and say it is working fine to recover the stlink.
2013-03-06T19:39:33 < Tectu> does anyone know a sane GUI diff tool for linux?
2013-03-06T19:39:45 < BrainDamage> meld is ok
2013-03-06T19:39:56 < zyp> gitg, if you are thinking about git diffs
2013-03-06T19:40:25 < Tectu> zyp, well, not directly. I have files in my git repo and guy send me some file he made changes, and now I don't know what he changed -.-
2013-03-06T19:40:31 < Tectu> BrainDamage, I'll give it a try, thanks!
2013-03-06T19:40:42 < Erlkoenig> Tectu: copy them into a git repos and do "git diff"
2013-03-06T19:41:05 < BrainDamage> with git mergetool you can call the diff editor of your liking on git diffs
2013-03-06T19:41:10 < Tectu> hmm.. I didn't thought of that, Erlkoenig
2013-03-06T19:41:27 < Tectu> BrainDamage, meld looks actually VERY nice!
2013-03-06T19:41:40 < Tectu> it cannot merge the files I guess? :D
2013-03-06T19:41:53 < BrainDamage> it can, just call it from git mergetool
2013-03-06T19:42:10 < Tectu> call it from git mergetool? git mergetool?
2013-03-06T19:43:00 < Erlkoenig> eclipse has also a nice git-diff integration wimre
2013-03-06T19:43:07 < Erlkoenig> s/wimre/iirc
2013-03-06T19:43:12 < BrainDamage> git mergetool --help
2013-03-06T19:43:38 < Tectu> BrainDamage, will check out!
2013-03-06T19:44:37 < emeb> Tectu: ask dongs if he has any boards left for that BMP2. IIRC he fabbed a bunch of them.
2013-03-06T19:44:40 < BrainDamage> gitg looks nice, I tried giggle, but wasn't very satisfactory
2013-03-06T19:45:06 < Tectu> emeb, already assembled?
2013-03-06T19:45:12 < zyp> no, just boards
2013-03-06T19:45:22 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-06T19:45:56 < zyp> latest version seems to have broken flashing
2013-03-06T19:47:52 -!- claude is now known as Claude
2013-03-06T19:49:24 < Rickta59> anyone tried out that freescale cortex-m0+ dev board?
2013-03-06T19:53:54 < emeb> Tectu: I bet if you offered enough $$ dongs would build them for you. :P
2013-03-06T19:54:20 < Tectu> would be nice :D
2013-03-06T19:54:34 < Tectu> hope he dosen't make it too kawaii
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2013-03-06T20:13:13 < BrainDamage> might interest some, it's a nice summary: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/swra351a/swra351a.pdf
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2013-03-06T20:34:19 < Tectu> BrainDamage, cool, thanks!
2013-03-06T20:34:32 < Tectu> BrainDamage, do you also have a guide about how to create impedance matching traces?
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2013-03-06T20:45:13 <+Steffanx> That totally depends on the tool you use.. Tectu :)
2013-03-06T20:45:27 < Tectu> Steffanx, P-Cad 2006 from alitum :D
2013-03-06T20:48:53 <+Steffanx> or did you mean how to calculate them?
2013-03-06T20:50:33 < Tectu> yes
2013-03-06T20:50:33 -!- jon1012 [~jon@foresight/developer/jon1012] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2013-03-06T20:50:42 < Tectu> hot to calculate trace thickness and back-off
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2013-03-06T20:53:43 < zyp> https://github.com/gsmcmullin/blackmagic/commit/749fb31 <- does anybody see any obvious bugs in this? it breaks flashing for me
2013-03-06T20:54:01 < zyp> found it through a bisect, and reverting it solves the problem
2013-03-06T20:55:57 < Simon--> zyp: semicolon
2013-03-06T20:56:56 < zyp> for the while block?
2013-03-06T20:57:07 < Simon--> yah. unless you wanted it indented like that
2013-03-06T20:57:27 < zyp> you might be onto something, I'll look into what it's supposed to do
2013-03-06T20:57:46 < zyp> it's not my code or my commit, but it's breaking stuff for me, so I'm gonna fix it :p
2013-03-06T20:59:06 <+Steffanx> It's not something stupid like gdb_usb_out_cb beign called in an interrupt and messing with your count_new var?
2013-03-06T20:59:37 -!- Almorgoth [~AlMorgoth@mic92-1-81-57-184-211.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2013-03-06T20:59:44 <+Steffanx> I'm only here for the stupid things, so probably not it :)
2013-03-06T20:59:52 < zyp> might be
2013-03-06T21:00:10 < zyp> I was thinking about a second packet arriving before the first is read out of the buffer
2013-03-06T21:00:27 < zyp> I'm not sure how flow control is done here, I was going to look into that too
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2013-03-06T21:00:44 <+Steffanx> Is the usb code interrupted based btw?
2013-03-06T21:01:09 < zyp> unsure, quite possibly
2013-03-06T21:01:27 < zyp> I mean, otherwise the wait loop wouldn't work at all
2013-03-06T21:01:27 <+Steffanx> I don't know anything about libopenstm32 :)
2013-03-06T21:01:55 <+Steffanx> ( steffanx :remember note to self )
2013-03-06T21:01:59 < zyp> Simon--, looked into the waitloop, it's intended like it's written, it's just a bad mix of tabs vs spaces
2013-03-06T21:02:20 < zyp> the while is really on the same indentation level as the if
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2013-03-06T21:04:26 < zyp> ah, looks like it's a flow control problem
2013-03-06T21:06:40 < zyp> normally the usb stack would handle flow control and NAK until usbd_ep_read_packet() is called, but this commit breaks that mechanism by reading every received packet immediately
2013-03-06T21:07:16 < zyp> without caring whether the extra buffer is empty or not
2013-03-06T21:07:25 <+Steffanx> Yay
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2013-03-06T21:27:25 < zyp> yep, adding flow control fixed it
2013-03-06T21:27:26 < Simon--> zyp: yah, figured it was space/tabisms
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2013-03-06T21:33:10 < Laurenceb_> rage
2013-03-06T21:33:22 < Laurenceb_> farnell had incorrect datasheet on their site :(
2013-03-06T21:33:34 < Laurenceb_> now i have a ton of fail boards
2013-03-06T21:33:42 -!- [1]MrMobius [~Joey@194.176.111.28] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-06T21:33:55 <+Steffanx> someone failed to check things
2013-03-06T21:34:07 <+Steffanx> Mr Laurenceb__ ( springboard yeye ) himself
2013-03-06T21:36:49 -!- MrMobius [~Joey@194.176.111.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2013-03-06T21:37:20 < jpa-> farnell has plenty of bugs
2013-03-06T21:37:28 < jpa-> they don't even fix them when reported
2013-03-06T21:38:11 -!- flop|2 [~kvirc@CPE00222de26418-CM00222de26415.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-06T21:38:36 <+Steffanx> You expect them to do so?
2013-03-06T21:39:00 < jpa-> well they do have a "report errors" button to make you more comfortable
2013-03-06T21:39:15 < gxti> yes Steffanx, when you buy things from a company you expect them to be at least marginally responsive to feedback
2013-03-06T21:39:27 < gxti> especially when it's helping them provide better service
2013-03-06T21:39:42 <+Steffanx> That only works for small companies gxti ..
2013-03-06T21:39:48 <+Steffanx> Farnell is too large to care
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2013-03-06T21:41:25 < zyp> https://github.com/zyp/blackmagic/commit/e8f9d52 <- simple enough fix
2013-03-06T21:42:25 < jpa-> zyp: btw, when you get around to doing USB interrupts on STM32F4, let me know if you notice anything funny with disabling endpoints
2013-03-06T21:42:51 < zyp> funny how?
2013-03-06T21:43:07 < jpa-> it seems to me that if an interrupt occurs before endpoint is masked/disabled, the interrupt will persist until you handle it.. even though it is masked
2013-03-06T21:43:49 < zyp> persist where?
2013-03-06T21:44:01 < jpa-> like if the bit in GINTSTS wasn't combinatorial and of the bits and masks, but instead was a set/reset flipflop
2013-03-06T21:44:40 < jpa-> so.. when the code was only handling unmasked endpoints, it got stuck in an interrupt loop
2013-03-06T21:44:53 < zyp> when handling it normally, you don't have to clear the bit in GINTSTS I assume?
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2013-03-06T21:45:03 < jpa-> nope, and it is a read-only bit
2013-03-06T21:45:18 < jpa-> only way to clear it is to go to the endpoint's interrupt register and clear it there
2013-03-06T21:45:39 < zyp> and that clears it in GINTSTS, even though it's masked?
2013-03-06T21:45:44 < jpa-> yep
2013-03-06T21:45:51 < jpa-> seems very strange to me
2013-03-06T21:46:38 < zyp> idea: try writing the endpoint interrupt register without actually clearing it
2013-03-06T21:46:42 < jpa-> though i only saw it with the "endpoint disable completed" interrupt.. it might make sense that *that* interrupt wouldn't be masked even though everything else was.. which would kind of explain it
2013-03-06T21:47:18 < zyp> I imagine the bit in GINTSTS might be latched, so it doesn't update unless something upstream updates, and that the mask bits are not considered
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2013-03-06T21:47:31 < jpa-> hmm, could be
2013-03-06T21:47:33 < zyp> ah
2013-03-06T21:48:38 < jpa-> (the mask i'm talking about is the DAINTMSK)
2013-03-06T21:50:11 < Laurenceb_> http://www.tme.eu/en/pages/AboutCompany:1.html
2013-03-06T21:50:16 < Laurenceb_> are these guys any good?>
2013-03-06T21:50:40 < jpa-> no, their photos are all pixelated
2013-03-06T21:51:11 < Laurenceb_> lol
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2013-03-06T22:02:20 -!- Jenev [~someone@208.84.207.215] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-06T22:02:23 < Jenev> hey
2013-03-06T22:02:38 < Jenev> has anyone here tried connecting a ps2 keyboard to the stm32f4?
2013-03-06T22:02:41 < Laurenceb_> hmm these guys seem legit
2013-03-06T22:02:54 < Laurenceb_> they have proper datasheets for vtb photodiodes too
2013-03-06T22:08:11 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-94-36-227-215.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2013-03-06T22:08:32 < zyp> Jenev, not yet, but I have a devboard with a ps2 connector
2013-03-06T22:09:04 < zyp> I thought about making a ps2 to usb keyboard adapter as a proof of concept
2013-03-06T22:12:10 < Jenev> ahh i see
2013-03-06T22:12:43 < Jenev> zyp, so have you tried anything so far?
2013-03-06T22:12:55 < zyp> not yet, I said
2013-03-06T22:13:10 < Jenev> oh right :)
2013-03-06T22:13:48 < Jenev> i've tried connecting the keyboard to my stm32f4 discovery, just to see if i'll at least get some input but i got nothing
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2013-03-06T22:14:29 < Jenev> i supplied the keyboard from the 5V pin and use the pull-up feature in the input pins but apparently that setup wasn't enough *shrug*
2013-03-06T22:14:48 < Jenev> i'm checking the datasheet to see what value the pull-ups are
2013-03-06T22:15:02 < Jenev> because i think the pull-ups for the keyboard is suppose to be 10k
2013-03-06T22:23:51 < Tectu> dongs, are you there or sleeping?
2013-03-06T22:23:56 -!- Almorgoth [~AlMorgoth@mic92-1-81-57-184-211.fbx.proxad.net] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-06T22:24:01 < Tectu> dongs is from japan, right?
2013-03-06T22:25:00 < emeb> hai
2013-03-06T22:25:14 < Jenev> hmm can't seem to find the value of the pull resistors
2013-03-06T22:25:40 < Jenev> but i'm guessing they're less than 5K
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2013-03-06T22:39:04 < zyp> Tectu, he'll be up in a few hours
2013-03-06T22:39:40 < zyp> Jenev, you're thinking wrong
2013-03-06T22:39:45 < zyp> lower values = stronger pulls
2013-03-06T22:40:59 < Tectu> thanks zyp
2013-03-06T22:41:40 < zyp> Jenev, according to the F4 datasheet, the nominal value for the pullups is 40k
2013-03-06T22:42:12 < Jenev> zyp, you i never actually paid attention to that
2013-03-06T22:42:22 < Jenev> i learned something new today
2013-03-06T22:42:26 < Jenev> and thank you
2013-03-06T22:42:53 < Jenev> that comfirms that the stm32f4 doesn't have strong enough pull-up resistor :)
2013-03-06T22:43:23 < zyp> also, my devboard doesn't seem to have external pullups, so I assume that the internal ones should be strong enough in practice
2013-03-06T22:44:29 < Jenev> so the dev board is connected directly to the I/O?
2013-03-06T22:44:35 < Jenev> hmmmm that's weird
2013-03-06T22:44:57 < Jenev> i even tried with a mouse
2013-03-06T22:45:10 < Jenev> light came on and everything
2013-03-06T22:45:20 < Jenev> it just won't change the output
2013-03-06T22:45:38 < zyp> are you sure you have the pins correctly configured?
2013-03-06T22:46:02 < zyp> you want to have them set to open drain outputs
2013-03-06T22:50:25 < Jenev> i tried both methods
2013-03-06T22:50:39 < Jenev> i'll try them again just to see if there's anything i missed
2013-03-06T22:50:54 < Jenev> but after i finish eating :)
2013-03-06T22:51:25 < qyx_> zyp: hid usb client?
2013-03-06T22:51:36 < zyp> yes
2013-03-06T22:51:55 < qyx_> hm, i will need to build such rfid reader
2013-03-06T22:52:45 < zyp> dumbasses are going on about how ps2 is better than usb «because usb doesn't allow to have more than six buttons pressed simultaneously»
2013-03-06T22:53:06 < gxti> i'm pressing 8 buttons right now
2013-03-06T22:53:31 < zyp> modifiers doesn't count as those six
2013-03-06T22:54:41 < zyp> the limitation exists because it's part of the «boot spec», which is a limited subset of HID for stuff like bios that doesn't implement a full HID descriptor parser
2013-03-06T22:55:38 < zyp> but nothing says that you have to keep those limitations with full-featured hosts
2013-03-06T23:02:12 -!- barthess [~barthess@178.154.21.173] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2013-03-06T23:05:55 < Jenev> zyp, still isn't working
2013-03-06T23:06:10 < zyp> pastebin some code I can look at
2013-03-06T23:07:38 < Jenev> coming right up
2013-03-06T23:08:14 < Jenev> #include <stm32f4xx_gpio.h>
2013-03-06T23:08:14 < Jenev> #include <stm32f4xx_rcc.h>
2013-03-06T23:08:14 < Jenev> int main(void)
2013-03-06T23:08:14 < Jenev> {
2013-03-06T23:08:14 < Jenev> 	uint8_t clk, dat;
2013-03-06T23:08:15 < Jenev> 	RCC_AHB1PeriphClockCmd(RCC_AHB1Periph_GPIOA, ENABLE);
2013-03-06T23:08:17 < Jenev> 	RCC_AHB1PeriphClockCmd(RCC_AHB1Periph_GPIOD, ENABLE);
2013-03-06T23:08:19 < Jenev> 	GPIO_InitTypeDef gpio_settings;
2013-03-06T23:08:21 < Jenev> 	gpio_settings.GPIO_Mode = GPIO_Mode_OUT;
2013-03-06T23:08:23 < Jenev> 	gpio_settings.GPIO_Pin = GPIO_Pin_12 | GPIO_Pin_14;
2013-03-06T23:08:25 < Jenev> 	gpio_settings.GPIO_Speed = GPIO_Speed_100MHz;
2013-03-06T23:08:27 < Jenev> 	GPIO_Init(GPIOD, &gpio_settings);
2013-03-06T23:08:29 < Jenev> 	gpio_settings.GPIO_Speed = GPIO_Speed_2MHz;
2013-03-06T23:08:31 < Jenev> 	gpio_settings.GPIO_Pin = GPIO_Pin_1 | GPIO_Pin_2;
2013-03-06T23:08:33 < Jenev> 	gpio_settings.GPIO_Mode = GPIO_Mode_IN;
2013-03-06T23:08:35 < Jenev> 	gpio_settings.GPIO_PuPd = GPIO_PuPd_UP;
2013-03-06T23:08:37 < Jenev> 	gpio_settings.GPIO_OType = GPIO_OType_OD;
2013-03-06T23:08:39 < Jenev> 	GPIO_Init(GPIOA, &gpio_settings);
2013-03-06T23:08:41 < Jenev>     while(1)
2013-03-06T23:08:43 < Jenev>     {
2013-03-06T23:08:45 < Jenev>     	if(GPIO_ReadInputDataBit(GPIOA, GPIO_Pin_1)){
2013-03-06T23:08:46 < Laurenceb_> ewwwwwwwwwww
2013-03-06T23:08:47 < Jenev>     		GPIO_WriteBit(GPIOD, GPIO_Pin_12, Bit_SET);
2013-03-06T23:08:49 < Laurenceb_> noooooooooooo
2013-03-06T23:08:50 < Jenev>     	}
2013-03-06T23:08:51 < Jenev>     	else if(!GPIO_ReadInputDataBit(GPIOA, GPIO_Pin_1)){
2013-03-06T23:08:53 < Jenev>     		GPIO_WriteBit(GPIOD, GPIO_Pin_12, Bit_RESET);
2013-03-06T23:08:55 < Jenev>     	}
2013-03-06T23:08:57 < Jenev>     	if(GPIO_ReadInputDataBit(GPIOA, GPIO_Pin_2)){
2013-03-06T23:08:59 < Laurenceb_> URDOINGITWRONG
2013-03-06T23:08:59 < Jenev>     	    GPIO_WriteBit(GPIOD, GPIO_Pin_14, Bit_SET);
2013-03-06T23:09:01 < Jenev>     	}
2013-03-06T23:09:03 < Jenev>     	else if(!GPIO_ReadInputDataBit(GPIOA, GPIO_Pin_2)){
2013-03-06T23:09:05 < Jenev>     	    GPIO_WriteBit(GPIOD, GPIO_Pin_14, Bit_RESET);
2013-03-06T23:09:07 < Jenev>     	}
2013-03-06T23:09:08 < Laurenceb_> URDOINGITWRONG
2013-03-06T23:09:09 < Jenev>     }
2013-03-06T23:09:11 < Jenev> }
2013-03-06T23:09:13 < Jenev> woops wrong paste
2013-03-06T23:09:15 < Jenev> http://ideone.com/pEHand
2013-03-06T23:09:27 < zyp> pio_settings.GPIO_Mode = GPIO_Mode_IN;
2013-03-06T23:09:32 < zyp> see, that's wrong
2013-03-06T23:09:37 < zyp> it should be out
2013-03-06T23:10:17 < Jenev> zyp, how come?
2013-03-06T23:10:40 < zyp> 21:46:02 < zyp> you want to have them set to open drain outputs
2013-03-06T23:11:23 < Jenev> yeah i probably overlooked that thinking you meant inputs
2013-03-06T23:11:30 < Jenev> :)
2013-03-06T23:12:50 < zyp> though, that doesn't really matter as your code aren't outputting anything yet
2013-03-06T23:13:17 < zyp> on the other hand, how are you monitoring PD12 and PD14? are they just leds?
2013-03-06T23:13:38 < zyp> isn't the signalling too fast to see anyway?
2013-03-06T23:14:55 < Jenev> my thought was that if i held down a key i'm suppose to at least see something
2013-03-06T23:15:25 < Jenev> and i'm not monitoring pin 12 and 14 i'm monitoring pin 1 and 2
2013-03-06T23:16:27 < zyp> to see what?
2013-03-06T23:16:43 < zyp> since you have pullups the leds would be lit when idle
2013-03-06T23:17:35 < zyp> holding a key doesn't do much, you only get a press-event when you start holding and a release-event when you are done holding it
2013-03-06T23:18:25 < Jenev> hmm
2013-03-06T23:18:46 < zyp> what do you mean by monitoring? leds or scope?
2013-03-06T23:19:01 < Jenev> led
2013-03-06T23:19:22 < Jenev> hold on going to change the code a bit
2013-03-06T23:19:29 < zyp> you have leds directly on those pins?
2013-03-06T23:20:01 < zyp> you can't expect the pullups to power the leds
2013-03-06T23:20:47 < Jenev> no
2013-03-06T23:21:02 < Jenev> the code uses the leds on the board
2013-03-06T23:21:27 < Jenev> there's four connected to pd.12, pd.13, pd.14 and pd.15
2013-03-06T23:21:33 < zyp> right
2013-03-06T23:21:51 < zyp> so you are monitoring PD12 and PD14.
2013-03-06T23:22:35 < Jenev> oh now i get what you mean
2013-03-06T23:22:48 < Jenev> i thought you were refering to what the code was doing
2013-03-06T23:23:00 < Jenev> i'm monitoring the LEDs with my naked eyes
2013-03-06T23:23:52 < zyp> right, and they are always lit?
2013-03-06T23:24:50 < Jenev> yes
2013-03-06T23:25:06 < zyp> good
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2013-03-06T23:26:04 < zyp> the thing is that even if they are going dark for brief periods of time, you don't see it, because the drop in brightness is not really noticeable
2013-03-06T23:26:20 < Jenev> i see
2013-03-06T23:26:28 < zyp> I suggest inverting them in the code, so you turn them on when the outputs are low instead of high
2013-03-06T23:26:50 < Jenev> i'm actually working on a better idea
2013-03-06T23:26:54 < zyp> that way you know there are activity if you see even the slightest amount of brightness on them
2013-03-06T23:27:00 < Jenev> i'm going to configure the pins as interrupt
2013-03-06T23:27:11 < Jenev> that way i'm sure to catch anything
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2013-03-06T23:27:39 < zyp> another trick is to use a pair of leds, and turn one off when you turn the other on
2013-03-06T23:27:50 < zyp> if both are on, you know you have constant activity
2013-03-06T23:28:12 < Jenev> ahh
2013-03-06T23:28:18 < Jenev> that's a better idea :)
2013-03-06T23:28:30 < Jenev> you just saved my from a lot of coding
2013-03-06T23:28:42 -!- cTn [~cTn@hautio.net] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-06T23:28:51 < zyp> I'm lazy, so I know all the simple tricks :p
2013-03-06T23:29:22 < BJfreeman> hey cTn
2013-03-06T23:29:28 < cTn> BJfreeman: hello
2013-03-06T23:30:13 < BJfreeman> your http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml is interesting
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2013-03-06T23:30:32 < BJfreeman> what seems to be your problem
2013-03-06T23:31:03 < BJfreeman> maybe some here can help
2013-03-06T23:32:04 < cTn> my problem is, i really don't know how to setup some sort of "working" environment for it so i could compile/flash/test the code, as most of this was all done under the hood in the arduino ide
2013-03-06T23:32:52 < cTn> i am kinda lost about what should i do to start coding for the stm32
2013-03-06T23:32:54 < BJfreeman> I would start with the Maple IDE and understand dfu-util
2013-03-06T23:34:03 < BJfreeman> dfu-uilt is the equivalent of the avrdude in arduino
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2013-03-06T23:34:35 < cTn> aaaha
2013-03-06T23:35:08 < Jenev> zyp, people call it lazy i call it efficieny :)
2013-03-06T23:35:21 < BJfreeman> the IDE actually starts with stm32f3 but you can probably add your f1 to it
2013-03-06T23:35:52 < cTn> *downloading the maple ide*
2013-03-06T23:37:14 -!- MrMobius [~Joey@194.176.111.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2013-03-06T23:37:51 < Laurenceb_> wtf
2013-03-06T23:38:33 < Laurenceb_> http://www.tarduino.cc/
2013-03-06T23:39:13 < BrainDamage> wtf it exists or wtf it has no posts?
2013-03-06T23:40:09 < Laurenceb_> no posts :(
2013-03-06T23:40:21 < Laurenceb_> nothing to troll the arduino users with at a time like this
2013-03-06T23:40:57 < cTn> BJfreeman: well i v got it running :/
2013-03-06T23:41:06 < cTn> that is some bright green
2013-03-06T23:41:09 < cTn> :s
2013-03-06T23:41:19 < BJfreeman> LOL
2013-03-06T23:42:12 < BJfreeman> the basically took an early arduino but change the code to work with stm32f3
2013-03-06T23:43:11 < BJfreeman> have to look up the board.txt and add your f1
2013-03-06T23:43:34 < BJfreeman> one big difference is you can load ram or flash
2013-03-06T23:43:36 < Laurenceb_> maple have a F3 board?
2013-03-06T23:43:53 < BJfreeman> maple is an STm32F3
2013-03-06T23:43:59 < BrainDamage> nope
2013-03-06T23:44:01 < BrainDamage> F103
2013-03-06T23:44:09 < Laurenceb_> wut
2013-03-06T23:44:14 < BrainDamage> the first digit is the important, not the last
2013-03-06T23:44:17 < Laurenceb_> BJfreeman: link
2013-03-06T23:44:31 < Laurenceb_> nvm
2013-03-06T23:45:09 < BrainDamage> http://leaflabs.com/devices/
2013-03-06T23:45:12 < BrainDamage> all F103
2013-03-06T23:45:14 < cTn> BJfreeman: those first 2 entries (LeafLabs Maple Rev 3+ to Flash) seem to have maple.build.mcu=STM32F103RB
2013-03-06T23:45:16 < BrainDamage> ie F1
2013-03-06T23:45:16 < cTn> set
2013-03-06T23:46:34 < cTn> it doesn't seem to be able to find DFU device
2013-03-06T23:46:58 < BrainDamage> maple boards run a custom bootloader
2013-03-06T23:47:07 < BrainDamage> they don't use stm32's
2013-03-06T23:47:15 < BJfreeman> I stand corrected STM32F103RCBT6
2013-03-06T23:47:42 < cTn> from that i am guessing i need to flash the custom bootloader first ?
2013-03-06T23:47:55 < cTn> for it to be able to communicate with the maple ide ?
2013-03-06T23:48:10 < Jenev> zyp, http://ideone.com/4LbN4b
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2013-03-06T23:48:15 < Jenev> this still doesn't work
2013-03-06T23:48:17 < Jenev> sigh
2013-03-06T23:48:38 < BrainDamage> cTn: correct
2013-03-06T23:48:39 < zyp> that's also normal
2013-03-06T23:49:20 < zyp> Jenev, the outputs default to 0, meaning they will drive the outputs low
2013-03-06T23:49:50 < zyp> you have to set them high to release them so the keyboard can drive them
2013-03-06T23:53:18 < BJfreeman> ctn like the arduino you have to load the device drivers
2013-03-06T23:56:35 < cTn> BJfreeman: well i did managed to reflash the bootloader
2013-03-06T23:56:40 < cTn> at least it seems i did
2013-03-06T23:57:30 < BJfreeman> ok
2013-03-06T23:57:37 < cTn> question is, what now? :/
2013-03-06T23:59:05 < cTn> as i doubt i will see any DFU device on my system when i have it connected via cp2102
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2013-03-06T23:59:52 < BJfreeman> not famalier with you device yet
2013-03-06T23:59:57 < BJfreeman> still reading
--- Day changed Thu Mar 07 2013
2013-03-07T00:00:06 < cTn> oki :)
2013-03-07T00:01:28 < cTn> thx for the help by the way, i really appreciate it
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2013-03-07T00:05:10 < BJfreeman> ok it is the same processor as the maple but has a RS323 loading scheme
2013-03-07T00:05:43 < BJfreeman> this is new territory for me so still reading
2013-03-07T00:05:57 < BJfreeman> unless someone else has experience
2013-03-07T00:06:11 < zyp> jpa-, I were just telling peddie about your core dump stuff for hard fault handling, did you have any url to that?
2013-03-07T00:07:08 < BJfreeman> RS232 (dyslexia)
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2013-03-07T00:07:37 < cTn> well i have the RS232 chip removed, so the serial link is on 3v3
2013-03-07T00:08:03 < cTn> otherwise i couldn't use the cheap CP2102 with it
2013-03-07T00:08:11 < BJfreeman> :D
2013-03-07T00:08:45 < BJfreeman> more how to hook the RS loading scheme instead of the USB scheme
2013-03-07T00:09:25 < BJfreeman> the new arduino has feature for using programmers
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2013-03-07T00:25:45 < BJfreeman> this may take me a day to cover all angles
2013-03-07T00:27:10 < cTn> ou :(
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2013-03-07T01:17:31 < BJfreeman> from the looks of things your cp2102 should work to be the USB Bridge to serial both ways
2013-03-07T01:17:36 < Jenev> zyp, this is my newest code
2013-03-07T01:17:36 < Jenev> http://ideone.com/JZ4Ro1
2013-03-07T01:17:42 < Jenev> and this still doesn't work
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2013-03-07T01:18:36 < zyp> you are still not setting the open drain outputs high, as far as I can see
2013-03-07T01:18:49 < zyp> which means that they will be forcing the lines low constantly.
2013-03-07T01:18:50 < cTn> BJfreeman: yes it does work like that
2013-03-07T01:18:56 < BJfreeman> cTn to the next step is to load the drivers from the IDE and see if it register when you plug in the stm32 board
2013-03-07T01:19:31 < BJfreeman> you should see a port appear in the IDE you don't have now
2013-03-07T01:20:01 < cTn> i don't see any new devices appear when i connect it, only the cp2102 (which i have drivers installed)
2013-03-07T01:20:06 < cTn> and yeah i see the serial port
2013-03-07T01:20:58 < BJfreeman> just to make sure this is a port that does not show when the cp2102 is not connected
2013-03-07T01:21:48 < cTn> i only see the CP2102 port in the device manager
2013-03-07T01:21:51 < BJfreeman> one more step is to go into the device manager and see if you have a serial port desinated as a maple
2013-03-07T01:22:06 < cTn> nope, i dont see such in there
2013-03-07T01:22:36 < BJfreeman> is the cp2102 connected to the stm32 board
2013-03-07T01:22:41 < cTn> yup
2013-03-07T01:22:49 < Jenev> zyp, do you mean i have to pull them down? o.0
2013-03-07T01:22:55 < BJfreeman> darn the USB ID are different
2013-03-07T01:23:05 < zyp> Jenev, no.
2013-03-07T01:23:18 < zyp> Jenev, I mean that you have to set them to output 1
2013-03-07T01:23:33 < BJfreeman> will continue to research
2013-03-07T01:23:36 < zyp> otherwise they will output 0
2013-03-07T01:23:53 < zyp> and when they output 0, the pullup can't do anything
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2013-03-07T01:27:02 < Jenev> zyp, i don't understand..
2013-03-07T01:27:29 < Jenev> you mean from my current setup just use GPIO_WriteBit(GPIOA, GPIO_Pin1, BitSET); ?
2013-03-07T01:27:37 < zyp> yes
2013-03-07T01:28:34 < zyp> remember, the bus should be 1 when idle
2013-03-07T01:28:47 < zyp> and then either the keyboard or the host will drive it to 0 to send
2013-03-07T01:29:34 < zyp> open drain means that it will only be driven to 0, when it's set to 1 it will be floating, like an input, and then the pullup will pull it to 1
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2013-03-07T01:30:53 < zyp> this means that when you output 0, it will always read 0 as an input, but when you output 1, it may read either 0 or 1 depending on what the other side is outputting
2013-03-07T01:31:04 < zyp> this is how it can transfer in both directions
2013-03-07T01:32:56 < Jenev> the part that puzzles me is that i'm writing to an input pin...
2013-03-07T01:33:01 < Jenev> this is my current code
2013-03-07T01:33:04 < Jenev> http://ideone.com/16lpzr
2013-03-07T01:33:11 < Jenev> and this still doesn't work
2013-03-07T01:33:33 < Jenev> am i suppose to be using a different pin to drive these?
2013-03-07T01:33:45 < Jenev> as in outputing the 1?
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2013-03-07T02:13:06 < dongs> yeah i normally sleep at 5am
2013-03-07T02:14:46 < flop> why so late?
2013-03-07T02:17:14 < dongs>  < Tectu> dongs, are you there or sleeping?
2013-03-07T02:17:16 < dongs> < dongs> yeah i normally sleep at 5am
2013-03-07T02:17:25 < dongs> as in i'm normally asleep at 5am.
2013-03-07T02:17:37 < gxti> lame
2013-03-07T02:23:04 < cTn> BJfreeman: any progress? :(
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2013-03-07T03:09:02 < BJfreeman> cTn the only route I see at the moment is to change the ID in the inf fiiles and re-install drivers this is not a simple task
2013-03-07T03:09:25 < BJfreeman> I am going to sleep on it
2013-03-07T03:09:55 < BJfreeman> you might ask here again to see if any one has a better Idea
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2013-03-07T03:11:24 < baird> Back from Epic Postie Bike Camping Ride #2! :D
2013-03-07T03:14:33 < dongs> yeah
2013-03-07T03:14:38 < dongs> i was wondering where the fuck you were last few weeks
2013-03-07T03:15:50 < baird> That Hill End Bridle Track was really piss-easy.. The land-slip that'd taken the 4wd track offline still left about 2 metres of road.. before the 120 metre cliff plunge :) ..but nothing that was even worrying. Heaps of abandoned gold mines (w/ bats!) that you could just walk right into..
2013-03-07T03:17:33 < baird> And found Gold.. in microscoping quanities. :/
2013-03-07T03:18:30 < Erlkoenig> so you were carrying a microscope on your bike?
2013-03-07T03:19:37 < baird> Optical zoom on the digicam. There were nearby areas for alluvial gold (panning..), but Hill End was a reff Gold area, where they had to crush the quartz up and suck the gold out with mrrcury.
2013-03-07T03:19:49 < baird> *reef gold *mercury
2013-03-07T03:21:33 < ds2> baird: what country is this?
2013-03-07T03:21:52 < Erlkoenig> probably the wild west :>
2013-03-07T03:23:05 < baird> ds2: Australia. Hill End was the centre of the 1850-1870s Gold Rush here.
2013-03-07T03:23:43 < ds2> ooh I see
2013-03-07T03:24:06 < ds2> wonder what customs would think about carrying back little vials of blacksands/flour gold
2013-03-07T03:25:57 < baird> Unlike what you probably expect, it was hardly a tourist-trap kind of deal. The National Parks & Wildlife Dept had a lot of historical signs about the place and maintained a camping site, but otherwise there was no big deals made about the place.
2013-03-07T03:26:23 < ds2> that's what I would expect
2013-03-07T03:26:31 < ds2> gold panning isn't that big of a tourist thing yet
2013-03-07T03:28:32 < baird> IT's mostly a pasttime for foreveralone old males here. :)
2013-03-07T03:29:51 < GargantuaSauce> like embedded development
2013-03-07T03:30:28 < baird> You'd need a permit for fossicking in (most states of?) Australia, but it's an anonymous fixed-fee (?$12) ticket deal, like the fishing licences (..to be able to charge people who've had theirs taken away)
2013-03-07T03:30:47 < ds2> really?
2013-03-07T03:31:00 < ds2> tourist qualify for that $12 thing?
2013-03-07T03:31:11 < baird> I'd expect so...
2013-03-07T03:31:20 < ds2> oooh nice.
2013-03-07T03:31:25 < ds2> one of these days I'll make it down there
2013-03-07T03:32:02 < baird> You'd probably need to pay duty on any gold you bring back..
2013-03-07T03:32:11 < ds2> pay AU or US?
2013-03-07T03:32:49 < baird> "No idea."
2013-03-07T03:33:10 < ds2> I mean is AU charging an export duty
2013-03-07T03:33:19 < ds2> not sure what you mean by pay duty
2013-03-07T03:33:37 < baird> You can try Googling for "hill end" fossicking, sofala fossicking, turon river fossicking..
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2013-03-07T04:15:23 < dongs> hmpf
2013-03-07T04:16:50 < dongs> is there a non-aids way (read: not > 900 components) to hard-limit voltage to some value above which it gets clipped? this is for a power supply for example, it would work betwee 5..9V in but anything above that just gets dropped.
2013-03-07T04:17:45 < Erlkoenig> zener diode \o/
2013-03-07T04:18:00 < dongs> thought about that, but im not sure if thats gonna work
2013-03-07T04:19:01 < BrainDamage> how much current will it handle?
2013-03-07T04:19:25 < dongs> < 50mA
2013-03-07T04:19:34 < BrainDamage> zener all the way
2013-03-07T04:21:59 < dongs> hmpf
2013-03-07T04:22:07 < BrainDamage> dongs: GargantuaSauce: http://bakabt.me/170247-penis-of-justice.html
2013-03-07T04:22:07 < BrainDamage> (02:55:07) BrainDamage: also, that shit is laurenceb/dongs grade material, link them
2013-03-07T04:22:08 < BrainDamage> (02:55:23) BrainDamage: altough baird might be interested as well, for erotic pourposes
2013-03-07T04:22:08 < BrainDamage> (02:57:15) GargantuaSauce: my power level is not high enough to link dongs to a hentai manga
2013-03-07T04:22:08 < BrainDamage> (02:58:28) GargantuaSauce: and the site just went down :V
2013-03-07T04:22:08 < BrainDamage> make sure you check as soon as it goes back up
2013-03-07T04:22:21 < dongs> Could not connect to MySQL database: Too many connections
2013-03-07T04:22:24 < dongs> lolnix
2013-03-07T04:22:35 < dongs> BrainDamage: how would it work when vcc is 5V?
2013-03-07T04:22:38 < dongs> wouldnt the diode be dropping some?
2013-03-07T04:23:26 < dongs> basically normaloperation is off 5V, some retards might run it off 6-9V (the max I would ever want to support), but anything > 9V would need to be clipped
2013-03-07T04:23:38 < dongs> but I can't have 5V dropped down to 4.xx  due to diode
2013-03-07T04:24:53 < Erlkoenig> no that's not how it works
2013-03-07T04:25:03 < BrainDamage> you put the zener in parallel to the load, with 9V rating, if V > 9V, the zener enters breakdown and starts conducting
2013-03-07T04:25:10 < Erlkoenig> you do:   (+) --> some R --> (5V)-- |<| -- (GND)
2013-03-07T04:25:19 < Erlkoenig> where 5V is the output
2013-03-07T04:25:25 < dongs> this is the 'zener as voltage regulator' shit?
2013-03-07T04:25:28 < BrainDamage> if you want to set to 5V constant
2013-03-07T04:25:30 < Erlkoenig> yup
2013-03-07T04:25:41 < BrainDamage> then you can do what Erlkoenig said
2013-03-07T04:25:45 < dongs> but what if input is 5V?
2013-03-07T04:25:54 < BrainDamage> the zener will be off
2013-03-07T04:25:58 < Erlkoenig> then the diode does nothing and your circuit is in series with the resistor
2013-03-07T04:25:58 < BrainDamage> or barely on
2013-03-07T04:26:12 < Erlkoenig> ... or use a low drop regulator; that's probably more precise
2013-03-07T04:26:20 < dongs> the point isnt about getting 5V
2013-03-07T04:26:21 < BrainDamage> that too, linear regulator
2013-03-07T04:26:28 < dongs> i use a linear reg already
2013-03-07T04:26:37 < dongs> but some retard will plug in like 16V into it
2013-03-07T04:26:41 < dongs> and thats above vreg rating
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2013-03-07T04:26:50 < BrainDamage> then zener in parallel to the load
2013-03-07T04:26:55 < BrainDamage> with 9v rating
2013-03-07T04:27:09 < BrainDamage> it'll be a dead short if you exceeed 9V, and limit it's voltage to 9V
2013-03-07T04:27:19 < BrainDamage> the only problem then will be current surge
2013-03-07T04:27:23 < dongs> so it'll be a short, what will smoke?
2013-03-07T04:27:28 < Erlkoenig> the diode :>
2013-03-07T04:27:34 < BrainDamage> the diode or the psy
2013-03-07T04:27:34 < Erlkoenig> and then the rest of the circuit
2013-03-07T04:27:35 < BrainDamage> psu
2013-03-07T04:27:40 < BrainDamage> but you can fix it
2013-03-07T04:27:44 < dongs> heh
2013-03-07T04:27:46 < Erlkoenig> thick enough diodes+FET let the PSU smoke
2013-03-07T04:27:48 < BrainDamage> you can either place a fuse before the zener
2013-03-07T04:27:58 < BrainDamage> so if zener fires, the fuse opens
2013-03-07T04:28:03 < BrainDamage> and circuit is protected
2013-03-07T04:28:11 < BrainDamage> or put a varistor
2013-03-07T04:28:24 < BrainDamage> that becomes high impedance when zener fires
2013-03-07T04:28:39 < BrainDamage> and protects zener, and bonus it'll also act as resistor for zener drop
2013-03-07T04:28:39 < dongs> hm, ptc might be not a bad idea
2013-03-07T04:28:57 < dongs> maybe ptc + zener is ok.
2013-03-07T04:29:09 < dongs> the circuit itself only draws < 50mA (prob less actually i didnt measure)
2013-03-07T04:29:14 < GargantuaSauce> zener + blasting cap
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2013-03-07T04:33:45 < dongs> kk, ill poke my analog pro on this
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2013-03-07T04:35:01 < GargantuaSauce> clamping zener + varistor/resettable fuse will also provide reverse voltage protection
2013-03-07T04:35:07 < GargantuaSauce> for further idiot-proofing
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2013-03-07T04:36:17 < dongs> right
2013-03-07T04:37:13 < Erlkoenig> design it in a way that breaks some certain component (fuse, diode, regulator) when overvoltage is applied, so you can charge $$$ to replace that part
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2013-03-07T04:42:58 < rigid> is it harmful when I have the MISO pin of a configured SPI port set to push-pull output?
2013-03-07T04:44:14 < GargantuaSauce> if the slave's output can take a short to ground, no
2013-03-07T04:44:43 < dongs> rigid: are you using it?
2013-03-07T04:45:00 < dongs> if you don't have the GPIO set as AF, i think you can just use it as regular gpio, input or output or whatever
2013-03-07T04:45:05 < GargantuaSauce> (setting it to af probably overrides that anyway)
2013-03-07T04:45:57 < dongs> right, that too
2013-03-07T04:47:13 < rigid> dongs: ah, i didn't know i can use it as regular GPIO when it's not in use
2013-03-07T04:47:18 < rigid> cool
2013-03-07T04:47:18 < dongs> you can
2013-03-07T04:47:24 < dongs> i've done that on some design
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2013-03-07T04:47:54 < dongs> as long as its not AF, you should be fine to use it as usual
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2013-03-07T04:49:13 < rigid> what happens if I set an SPI output pin to GPIO_Speed_10MHz but use a clock faster than that?
2013-03-07T04:49:37 < dongs> nothing
2013-03-07T04:49:40 < rigid> i.e. SCK at 18MHz on a pin set to 10MHz
2013-03-07T04:49:49 < dongs> it continues working.
2013-03-07T04:49:52 < dongs> just your rise/fall times might be shit
2013-03-07T04:49:54 < rigid> dongs: will it be as if set to 50MHz ?
2013-03-07T04:50:11 < rigid> ah, so the signal is influenced...
2013-03-07T04:50:22 < rigid> gotta look at that on the scope
2013-03-07T04:51:00 < GargantuaSauce> what does the gpio speed setting even change physically
2013-03-07T04:51:06 < GargantuaSauce> does it select different resistors for push/pull?
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2013-03-07T05:01:14 < qyx_> dongs: there are nice chips for overvoltage protection - they drive external mosfet disconnect to regulate output if overvoltage on the input is applied
2013-03-07T05:01:58 < qyx_> in linear fashion (clamping voltage), if overvoltage continues, thermal protection disconnects the load automatically
2013-03-07T05:03:07 < qyx_> lt4363 for example
2013-03-07T05:04:47 < qyx_> but thats maybe too overcomplicated for this purpose
2013-03-07T05:06:29 < emeb> dongs: just wrapped up 1st pass of a board w/ diptrace. Liking it so far.
2013-03-07T05:08:23 < dongs> cool
2013-03-07T05:08:59 < qyx_> ltc4361 also, 5.8V overvoltage threshold fixed, but only few external components and way cheaper
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2013-03-07T05:16:15 < emeb> anyone here ever used a tag connect?
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2013-03-07T05:34:40 < Erlkoenig> http://games.2g2s.de/elektronik/lrp-rx-40/filterthingy.png does this circuit make any sense and what does it do? I think it should filter the output of the superhet receiver and generate a digital signal out of it...
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2013-03-07T05:35:24 < emeb> makes no sense to me.
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2013-03-07T05:35:36 < emeb> without component values it could be doing anything.
2013-03-07T05:36:01 < Erlkoenig> meh, those are tiny SMD parts
2013-03-07T05:36:12 < emeb> what's the frequency / bandwidth of the input from the rcvr?
2013-03-07T05:36:21 < emeb> what are the values of the R/C components?
2013-03-07T05:36:40 < emeb> why do you have the same signal driving both the + and - inputs of the amp?
2013-03-07T05:37:05 < qyx_> if the opamp is used as a simple comparator, cannot it be just phase demodulator?
2013-03-07T05:37:47 < qyx_> doesnt the capacitor between + and - do some sort of shift?
2013-03-07T05:38:18 < emeb> I suppose
2013-03-07T05:38:43 < Erlkoenig> the "data signal" from the receiver should be about 1kHz, and probably still include some of the 40MHz HF Signal, the IF of 455 kHz, and noise... i can't find out the R/C Values because of tiny parts, measurements won't probably work. the "opamp" is a chinese version of a LM393 which is a comparator...
2013-03-07T05:39:18 < emeb> so this is for an existing / working circuit.
2013-03-07T05:39:27 < Erlkoenig> yes i try to reverse-engineer it a bit
2013-03-07T05:39:48 < qyx_> maybe it detects if the signal is rising or falling
2013-03-07T05:39:51 < emeb> I guess it might be some sort of phase demod.
2013-03-07T05:39:53 < Erlkoenig> i want to get hold of the digital signal (which is probably generated by the 393) to decode it via µC
2013-03-07T05:40:54 < emeb> qyx_: yeah - it would do that.
2013-03-07T05:41:40 < qyx_> nice idea, i wouldnt come up with this
2013-03-07T05:41:58 < Erlkoenig> given correct R/C values, would it filter out frequencies > 1 kHz ?
2013-03-07T05:42:33 < emeb> it's just cascaded 1st-order RC filters. It would have fairly lame response.
2013-03-07T05:43:01 < Erlkoenig> that's probably ok because the next frequency to suppress is 455kHz
2013-03-07T05:45:37 < Erlkoenig> the problem is the 393's output is always 'high' because the (-) Input is always just below the (+) Input. The (-) looks like "DC" while the (+) looks like some triangualeted version of the transmitted signal
2013-03-07T05:45:50 < Erlkoenig> i think i should make a scope image
2013-03-07T05:46:38 < emeb> OK, then the RC on the - input is probably well below 1kHz - it's just establishing the DC level.
2013-03-07T05:46:49 < dongs> wel shit
2013-03-07T05:46:55 < dongs> zener + ptc is looking fairly bleak after talking to my analog guy
2013-03-07T05:47:03 < emeb> and the + input is filtered somewhat less, so this is just an infinite clipper.
2013-03-07T05:47:03 < dongs> ptc will form a resistor divider w/vin
2013-03-07T05:47:14 < dongs> and depending on how much current the shit draws, the voltage drop over that could be as much as 2+V
2013-03-07T05:47:22 < dongs> so my awesome 5V in is gonna turn into like 3.3V
2013-03-07T05:48:56 < emeb> dongs: this is your PS clamp?
2013-03-07T05:50:23 < qyx_> wat?
2013-03-07T05:51:04 < johntramp> is there anywhere which summarises the gcc builtin functions for arm?
2013-03-07T05:51:09 < dongs> emeb: yea
2013-03-07T05:52:09 < qyx_> 100mA holding current ptc fuses are 5-15ohm
2013-03-07T05:52:19 < qyx_> it makes 0.25V drop for your 50mA load
2013-03-07T05:52:27 < emeb> that's not too bad.
2013-03-07T05:52:49 < emeb> use a zener that's near your clamp voltage of 9V
2013-03-07T05:53:37 < Erlkoenig> (04:46:39) emeb: OK, then the RC on the - input is probably well below 1kHz - it's just establishing the DC level. -- yeah exactly, like a reference voltage.
2013-03-07T05:53:37 < Erlkoenig> http://games.2g2s.de/elektronik/lrp-rx-40/filterthingy_scope.png   ... this is how the signals look like -  Red=(+), Yellow=(-) . if the (-) level were a bit higher i would probably see a digital signal on the 393's out pin
2013-03-07T05:53:41 < emeb> so your input range is 5-9V. Anything higher than the zener voltage activates the PTC
2013-03-07T05:53:54 < emeb> anything less drops 250mv
2013-03-07T05:53:59 < Erlkoenig> (04:47:03) emeb: and the + input is filtered somewhat less, so this is just an infinite clipper. -- uh, what'S that?
2013-03-07T05:54:07 < emeb> so 5V in -> 4.75. Too much?
2013-03-07T05:54:56 < emeb> Erlkoenig: infinite clipper turns any waveform into a pulse wave. Values above average value = 1, values below average = 0.
2013-03-07T05:55:01 < qyx_> i found some cheap multicomp parts with 2.5ohm, 200mA hold, 400mA trip
2013-03-07T05:55:06 < qyx_> thats 125mV
2013-03-07T05:55:27 < Erlkoenig> emeb: ah okay, that sounds like what this circuit should do
2013-03-07T06:04:21 < qyx_> omg ebay full of those nrf24l01 modules for 1.50$
2013-03-07T06:05:00 < emeb> or less
2013-03-07T06:05:06 < emeb> 10x for $12
2013-03-07T06:05:10 < qyx_> O_o
2013-03-07T06:05:22 < emeb> lol hc47 xtal
2013-03-07T06:05:23 < dongs> hm
2013-03-07T06:05:27 < dongs> so i shatted with my analog guy
2013-03-07T06:05:28 < qyx_> i have 4 here, maybe its the time to try them
2013-03-07T06:05:36 < gxti> gross
2013-03-07T06:05:42 < dongs> some modifications for the plan
2013-03-07T06:05:48 < dongs> gonna trip at 5.8V
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2013-03-07T06:06:02 < dongs> well, 5.6, the zener im looking at is 5.4..5.8V or so rating
2013-03-07T06:06:14 < dongs> http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/ds4/DZ24056_CED.pdf
2013-03-07T06:06:39 < dongs> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/DZ2405600L/DZ2405600LCT-ND/3594989
2013-03-07T06:06:52 < dongs> and type C ptc from here http://www.littelfuse.com/data/en/Data_Sheets/Littelfuse_PTC_1210L.pdf
2013-03-07T06:07:10 < dongs> i think worst voltage drop will be like 4.9xV
2013-03-07T06:07:18 < gxti> what is this for
2013-03-07T06:07:21 < emeb> not too awful
2013-03-07T06:07:22 < dongs> (i mean 5V dropping to 4.9x)
2013-03-07T06:07:32 < emeb> n00b insurance
2013-03-07T06:07:35 < dongs> gxti: ^
2013-03-07T06:07:38 < dongs> retard protection
2013-03-07T06:07:43 < gxti> i guessed that part
2013-03-07T06:08:00 < qyx_> 5ohm Rmax at 50mA, so about 250mV
2013-03-07T06:08:01 < emeb> "why does my tarduino explode when I power it w/ 48V?"
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2013-03-07T06:08:24 < gxti> oh i scrolled up 50 pages and found it
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2013-03-07T06:09:00 < gxti> seems reasonable
2013-03-07T06:09:48 < dongs> ok. ill queue those up into my next dkey order
2013-03-07T06:09:51 < dongs> and try it out
2013-03-07T06:10:01 < dongs> if some retard plugs in 16V
2013-03-07T06:10:10 < dongs> it coould deliver up to 74W into the zener for 0.02s
2013-03-07T06:10:23 < dongs> zener's 'instant' rating is like 100W
2013-03-07T06:10:25 < dongs> so maye ok?
2013-03-07T06:10:29 < gxti> i need to idiotproof the next revision of this ntp server board, overvoltage would be hard because the switcher takes 36V in but it needs some zap protection
2013-03-07T06:10:55 < emeb> in spec. why not?
2013-03-07T06:11:16 < dongs> (16.V - 5.88V (zener trip) = 10.12V / 0.8ohm = 12.6A (instant) = 5.88V * 12.6A = 74W
2013-03-07T06:11:19 < dongs> (16.V - 5.88V (zener trip) = 10.12V / 5ohm = 2.024A (instant) = 5.88V * 2.024A = 11.9W
2013-03-07T06:11:45 < dongs> this is like worst case stuff so.. probably not gonna be that
2013-03-07T06:12:06 < dongs> i still dont even know how much my actual cirtcuit drawsw
2013-03-07T06:12:08 < dongs> need to measure
2013-03-07T06:12:10 < dongs> but its something tiny
2013-03-07T06:12:17 < qyx_> do you think that someone is going to power that thing with 12.6A?
2013-03-07T06:12:31 < dongs> you never know
2013-03-07T06:12:52 < dongs> the source must be able to deliver 12A for this to work, right?
2013-03-07T06:12:53 < qyx_> it would change to smoke instantly
2013-03-07T06:13:02 < qyx_> of course
2013-03-07T06:13:09 < dongs> otherwise it'll just drop voltage to nothing on overcurrent
2013-03-07T06:13:14 < emeb> peak current of 100W @ 0.1s, so 0.02s should be fine.
2013-03-07T06:13:35 < emeb> oh wait - that's 0.1ms, so 20ms is way out of spec.
2013-03-07T06:13:49 < dongs> the zener?
2013-03-07T06:13:52 < emeb> ya
2013-03-07T06:14:04 < dongs> wehre doyo usee ms
2013-03-07T06:14:15 < dongs> oh, under hte table
2013-03-07T06:14:17 < emeb> note 2 on absolute max table.
2013-03-07T06:14:27 < dongs> rtight
2013-03-07T06:14:29 < dongs> hmf
2013-03-07T06:14:33 < dongs> so whats 0.2 gonna do to it
2013-03-07T06:14:44 < dongs> ewr, 20ms
2013-03-07T06:14:54 < emeb> drive the max current into it for 200x longer than it's rated for.
2013-03-07T06:15:05 < dongs> thats assuming source can do 12A though
2013-03-07T06:15:08 < dongs> whcih i doubt
2013-03-07T06:15:13 < emeb> there's that.
2013-03-07T06:15:31 < dongs> ill just get htem and try frying them.
2013-03-07T06:15:32 < emeb> average wall wart will roll over and die at ~ 100ma
2013-03-07T06:15:36 < dongs> yeah
2013-03-07T06:16:20 < emeb> so all you have to worry about is the charge stored on the filter cap.
2013-03-07T06:16:34 < qyx_> if you are tripping at 5.8V, look at that ltc4361 thing
2013-03-07T06:16:39 < qyx_> that would solve that issues
2013-03-07T06:17:23 < qyx_> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1499079.pdf
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2013-03-07T06:23:08 < dongs> its $5
2013-03-07T06:23:10 < dongs> no fucking way.
2013-03-07T06:23:22 < dongs> i realize its the way to go, but no,
2013-03-07T06:23:26 < qyx_> 1.69e at farnell
2013-03-07T06:23:32 < qyx_> on
2013-03-07T06:23:38 < dongs> that + precision shunt is gonna be more htan entire bom so far
2013-03-07T06:23:47 < dongs> then you ened a nfet too
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2013-03-07T06:23:53 < dongs> whats inside that thing? just a opamp?
2013-03-07T06:23:54 < qyx_> thats trie
2013-03-07T06:24:05 < qyx_> and some timers
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2013-03-07T06:39:58 < gxti> definitely overkill
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2013-03-07T06:41:25 < gxti> it has a builtin charge pump for the mosfet FFS
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2013-03-07T06:51:29 < dongs> well its $5 for a reason
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2013-03-07T06:55:16 < gxti> what's less clear is who would buy it
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2013-03-07T08:41:27 < jpa-> zyp, peddie: about coredump stuff, just https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/QuadPawn/blob/master/Runtime/debug.c  and  https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/QuadPawn/blob/master/Runtime/gdb_debug_memory_dump.txt 
2013-03-07T08:42:56 < jpa-> (and apparently the .txt is outdated, it should have CRASHDATA.REGS[n] instead of the CRASHDATA.R7 etc.
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2013-03-07T12:46:57 < Laurenceb> allah snackbar
2013-03-07T12:47:34  * Steffanx sees the video in his head
2013-03-07T12:47:44 <+Steffanx> No need to link this time Laurenceb :)
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2013-03-07T13:05:53 < karlp> zyp: did you see that uwe fixed the same usb nak flow control bug as you a couple of days ago? https://github.com/UweBonnes/blackmagic/commit/f04cc1248f9a144e07c7e6fc0e76f81922f22aa4
2013-03-07T13:05:59 < baird> Hey Kids, do you like Explosions?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vC9GSGUz3U
2013-03-07T13:09:07 < Laurenceb> aha, we finally see baird
2013-03-07T13:10:03 <+Steffanx> lol zyp
2013-03-07T13:10:50 < baird> Note the lack of wearing a furry-theme t-shirt like some fgts here..
2013-03-07T13:26:37 < zyp> karlp, yes, I noticed it after I had submitted a pull request for mine
2013-03-07T13:34:02 < karlp> baird: fun! "No views" you're real popular :)
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2013-03-07T13:44:44 < baird> Needs moar explosions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpUW26MkfYQ
2013-03-07T13:50:31 < Laurenceb> http://news.msn.com/pop-culture/mits-charm-school-teaches-bookworms-about-social-graces
2013-03-07T13:50:41 < Laurenceb> not sure if serious...
2013-03-07T13:50:49 < baird> Watching myself run like hell cracks me up every time..
2013-03-07T13:51:08 < Laurenceb> "which wasn't safe to leave around, and wasn't a good idea to put in the rubbish bins."
2013-03-07T13:51:10 < Laurenceb> lol
2013-03-07T13:51:35 < Laurenceb> i like how you disabled comments
2013-03-07T13:52:02 < baird> Gas canisters -> Rubbish truck -> compressing rubbish -> boom and fire -> bad.
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2013-03-07T13:54:50 < Laurenceb> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522851&cid=43101857
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2013-03-07T15:22:17 < jpa-> bah the STM32F4 DMA2 errata is annoying
2013-03-07T15:22:47 < jpa-> i cannot use DMA to TFT simultaneously with DMA for ADC
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2013-03-07T15:23:57 < karlp> wotcha building now?
2013-03-07T15:24:38 < jpa-> work stuff
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2013-03-07T15:26:28 <+Steffanx> nda stuff?
2013-03-07T15:27:42 < jpa-> not really
2013-03-07T15:27:50 <+Steffanx> You work at a uni isnt it?
2013-03-07T15:27:53 < jpa-> nope
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2013-03-07T15:27:57 <+Steffanx> not anymore?
2013-03-07T15:28:02 <+Steffanx> Research something then?
2013-03-07T15:28:03 < jpa-> never worked for university
2013-03-07T15:28:24 < jpa-> i'm fooling around in a "normal" company
2013-03-07T15:28:39 <+Steffanx> i remember you did some work for a uni with some self made tools
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2013-03-07T15:29:34 < jpa-> aha, well i don't remember that :)
2013-03-07T15:29:51 <+Steffanx> i do
2013-03-07T15:30:09 < zyp> sure you're not thinking about Laurenceb?
2013-03-07T15:30:17 < zyp> he's the weird uni guy
2013-03-07T15:30:34 <+Steffanx> No, i'll do some research this evening :P
2013-03-07T15:30:49 < jpa-> if i have done something for university, it's been part of my studies and not work :P
2013-03-07T15:31:13 <+Steffanx> work.. homework, schoolwork .. :)
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2013-03-07T15:36:53 < jpa-> bah.. no DMA to display then.. didn't want it anyway! :F
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2013-03-07T15:37:36 <+Steffanx> Why you cant use them simultaneously?
2013-03-07T15:38:02 < jpa-> because it corrupts data
2013-03-07T15:38:26 < jpa-> (errata 2.1.9 DMA2 data corruption)
2013-03-07T15:38:41 <+Steffanx> oh, errata
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2013-03-07T16:15:27 < rigid> oh man, in certain rare circumstances this FPGA doesn't work with SPI while with bitbanging GPIO it works all the time >.< ...
2013-03-07T16:15:39 < rigid> bugs-i-love-to-debug (tm)
2013-03-07T16:16:22 < rigid> ...now graphing all timing specifications for comparison with gnuplot *grrr*
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2013-03-07T16:35:17 < Laurenceb> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-L0ei8vI_xNY/UHDhyk8oBnI/AAAAAAAACjQ/1NHweHseRF4/s1600/ipad.jpg
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2013-03-07T17:11:19 < emeb_mac> oh noes! best korea is gunning for us...
2013-03-07T17:13:11 < Tectu> dongs, are you there?
2013-03-07T17:13:15 < dongs> yeah
2013-03-07T17:13:51 < dongs> is this gonna be about bmp clones
2013-03-07T17:15:10 < Tectu> dongs, yes
2013-03-07T17:15:17 < Tectu> dongs, do you have boards over?
2013-03-07T17:15:45 < dongs> i should have at least a couple left, yes.
2013-03-07T17:15:51 < dongs> ido nthave the shitty 8mhz xtal it uses
2013-03-07T17:15:54 < dongs> but probably everytrhign else
2013-03-07T17:16:17 < emeb_mac> what's wrong with the crystal? :P
2013-03-07T17:16:37 < Tectu> dongs, could I get one?
2013-03-07T17:16:49 < dongs> blank pcb?
2013-03-07T17:16:50 < Tectu> dongs, how much do you want for a PCB only and an assembled one?
2013-03-07T17:17:01 < Tectu> I'd like to get an assemble done :P
2013-03-07T17:17:04 < Tectu> if possible
2013-03-07T17:18:58 < dongs> ill ahve to think about it.
2013-03-07T17:19:01 < dongs> im fairly b usy with stuff.
2013-03-07T17:19:15 < dongs> if you just want blank pcb it might be faster to get gerbers from emeb and just have chinafab10 for $10
2013-03-07T17:20:36 < dongs> i do have stencil for it as well.. i'd have to find time to get it assembled though
2013-03-07T17:23:04 < Tectu> dongs, I have time
2013-03-07T17:23:20 < dongs> aight, ill put it on todo list
2013-03-07T17:23:23 < dongs> just keep poking me
2013-03-07T17:23:26 < Tectu> sure
2013-03-07T17:23:28 < Tectu> how much monies?
2013-03-07T17:24:09 < gxti> i have bmp clones as well, although they're not the same bmp clones
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2013-03-07T17:41:14 < BJfreeman> cTn :D
2013-03-07T17:41:29 < cTn> BJfreeman: yeah ?
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2013-03-07T17:45:34 < BJfreeman> have some differnt solutions
2013-03-07T17:47:29 < BJfreeman> I think the shortest solution is to complile in the maple IDE then use your software to upload
2013-03-07T17:47:46 < cTn> my software as? :/
2013-03-07T17:47:56 < cTn> that flash loader demo ?
2013-03-07T17:48:11 < BJfreeman> the softare on the cd you got with the device
2013-03-07T17:48:48 < cTn> i got no cd :/
2013-03-07T17:49:39 < BJfreeman> hm let me read the page again
2013-03-07T17:50:05 < cTn> i v got the board as a gift from a friend of mine
2013-03-07T17:50:07 < BJfreeman> not the cp2102 but the stm32
2013-03-07T17:50:11 < cTn> so that sprobably why i dont have the cd
2013-03-07T17:50:17 < BJfreeman> ah
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2013-03-07T18:26:37 < Laurenceb> so much fail
2013-03-07T18:26:55 < Laurenceb> someone emailed me to ask if they could see through concrete walls using infrared
2013-03-07T18:27:01 < gxti> well
2013-03-07T18:27:03 < gxti> can they?
2013-03-07T18:27:04 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2013-03-07T18:27:08 < Laurenceb> some of these have got to be trolls
2013-03-07T18:27:22 < Laurenceb>  *could
2013-03-07T18:28:50 < Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENMYaYyZ0go&feature=player_embedded
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2013-03-07T18:44:13 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb not everyone is as smart as you
2013-03-07T18:44:59 < Erlkoenig> everybody knows this can only be done using X-Rays.
2013-03-07T18:45:00 <+Steffanx> dekar dekar. All those buggy buttons in your Gqrx version should are really meant to be THAT buggy?
2013-03-07T18:45:09 <+Steffanx> -are
2013-03-07T18:45:14 <+Steffanx> -really + are :)
2013-03-07T18:46:01 <+Steffanx> Like the "record" button
2013-03-07T18:46:11 <+Steffanx> which makes the app crash
2013-03-07T18:47:27 < dongs> does G in gqrx stand for GTK
2013-03-07T18:47:53 <+Steffanx> No
2013-03-07T18:48:54 <+Steffanx> It's GNU Radio + Qt based
2013-03-07T18:49:15 < Erlkoenig> One of the major Gtk devs recommended be to not use Gtk+ in any new application. ...
2013-03-07T18:49:36 < Erlkoenig> also Gtk has no windows support anymore
2013-03-07T18:49:38 <+Steffanx> :D
2013-03-07T18:50:30 <+Steffanx> Hmm, anyone here into antennas and stuff?
2013-03-07T18:50:44 < Erlkoenig> more into stuff than antennas
2013-03-07T18:50:44 <+Steffanx> I have a unknown yagi and like to known what it's made for
2013-03-07T18:51:40 < emeb> measure the length of the driven elements, compute wavelength -> frequency.
2013-03-07T18:52:43 < emeb> driven element is 0.44*lambda.
2013-03-07T18:52:44 <+Steffanx> It sucks i never really had RF stuff on my uni. Only some basic stuff
2013-03-07T18:54:28 < emeb> basic electromagnetic stuff is good to know. I had 2 semesters of that.
2013-03-07T18:54:54 < emeb> but there were some antenna design classes that only the really hardcore folks took. Scary stuff.
2013-03-07T18:56:05 <+Steffanx> Only had some 'stuff' about micro strips, transmission lines ( using smith charts YAY )
2013-03-07T18:56:51 < emeb> 1st semester for us was field theory. Lots of calculus. :P
2013-03-07T18:57:05 < BJfreeman> ah yes helical phasing
2013-03-07T18:57:08 < emeb> 2nd semester was microwaves & transmission lines. More fun.
2013-03-07T18:57:09 <+Steffanx> That must have been ages ago for you
2013-03-07T18:57:16 <+Steffanx> How you still remember that
2013-03-07T18:57:35 < Tectu> GargantuaSauce, sorry for this again, but what was your OpenOCD -f parameter you used for the disco board?
2013-03-07T18:57:53 < emeb> Brain frozen in the past. :)
2013-03-07T18:58:15 <+Steffanx> http://share.naffets.nl/a-20130307-175802.jpg i guess you mean the length of the big red arrow?
2013-03-07T18:58:45 < emeb> yep. this is fairly comprehensive discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yagi_antenna
2013-03-07T18:58:59 <+Steffanx> wikipedia, i prefer not to read that :)
2013-03-07T18:59:26 < emeb> then you're not taking advantage of all the resources at hand.
2013-03-07T18:59:29 <+Steffanx> In my experience wikipedia can make things more complicated than they actually are
2013-03-07T18:59:49 < emeb> You need to use good judgement.
2013-03-07T18:59:55 < BrainDamage> that's because it strives to be correct
2013-03-07T19:00:14 < emeb> It's great way to refresh stuff that you already have been exposed to.
2013-03-07T19:00:17 < BrainDamage> it's like saying v = a*t, it's correct, but only in certain cases
2013-03-07T19:00:37 < BrainDamage> wikipedia would show you the differential, or the relativistic version
2013-03-07T19:00:39 <+Steffanx> True emeb, so not for stuff you've never been 'exposed too'
2013-03-07T19:00:43 <+Steffanx> -o
2013-03-07T19:01:23 <+Steffanx> BrainDamage so all we need is a wikipedia for dummies
2013-03-07T19:01:37 < BrainDamage> there is .. sorta
2013-03-07T19:01:50 < BrainDamage> there's simple english wikipedia, altough you might find that the converse
2013-03-07T19:01:52 < emeb> Maybe a yellow highlighter function - "this is the basic stuff for you n00bs"
2013-03-07T19:01:55 < BrainDamage> extremely simplified
2013-03-07T19:02:03 <+Steffanx> Once i found a website that answers all your questiosn ( not stackoverflow ), but i lost it
2013-03-07T19:02:13 < emeb> Siri
2013-03-07T19:02:16 <+Steffanx> No
2013-03-07T19:02:16 < BrainDamage> physics exchange?
2013-03-07T19:02:25 <+Steffanx> Not not even similar
2013-03-07T19:02:34 < BrainDamage> yahoo answers! :p
2013-03-07T19:03:01 <+Steffanx> It's was a more scientific website, calculus, physics and more stuff
2013-03-07T19:03:25 <+Steffanx> Nah, perhaps i'll find again... once
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2013-03-07T19:03:48 <+Steffanx> Time to measure the yahi
2013-03-07T19:03:49 <+Steffanx> gi
2013-03-07T19:04:06 < BrainDamage> btw the one in the pic is a folded dipole, not a yagi
2013-03-07T19:04:22 < BrainDamage> a yagi is an array of 2 or more dipoles
2013-03-07T19:04:36 < BrainDamage> you can see the dipoles like "guides" for the beam
2013-03-07T19:06:48 <+Steffanx> Isn't that the driver element of a yagi?
2013-03-07T19:06:52 <+Steffanx> doesn't that look like that?
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2013-03-07T19:13:32 < BJfreeman> you can fine the drivers by following the connector and where the conductor is connected
2013-03-07T19:14:09 <+Steffanx> Yes yes, but
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2013-03-07T19:17:18 < BJfreeman> cTn so have you installed software on the ET-STM32
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2013-03-07T19:17:58 < cTn> no? which software
2013-03-07T19:18:01 < BJfreeman> have you verified that you can upload
2013-03-07T19:18:16 < cTn> i only have the flash loader demo from ST site
2013-03-07T19:18:29 < cTn> and that one works (i can connect to it/ flash/erase the chip)
2013-03-07T19:18:59 < BJfreeman> my thought is you can compile using the maple IDE then take the file it generates and upload with you programmer
2013-03-07T19:19:46 < BJfreeman> link to the flash loader demo
2013-03-07T19:21:24 < cTn> BJfreeman: http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/tools/PF257525
2013-03-07T19:21:33 < BJfreeman> thnx
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2013-03-07T19:22:15 < cTn> but compiling and manually loading the bin file, is really obstructive, it would take ages to develop something like that
2013-03-07T19:24:15 < karlp> heh: http://imgur.com/SpBALnC
2013-03-07T19:24:44 < karlp> had to pull off the shrouding to see what was wrong.
2013-03-07T19:24:58 < cTn> heh
2013-03-07T19:25:13 <+Steffanx> oops
2013-03-07T19:25:45 < dirty_d> simonk's firmware worked on my ESCs
2013-03-07T19:25:57 < dirty_d> hopefully that helps this damn thing fly
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2013-03-07T19:35:46 < BJfreeman> cTn I have two goals 1) to get you operational as quickly as possible, and use what ever is availible to get a enviorment you can work in
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2013-03-07T19:36:59 < cTn> i really dont mind compiling things in some IDE, just uploading the stuff via that demo loader is pain in the ass
2013-03-07T19:37:12 < cTn> it could really use some script or such to do the job
2013-03-07T19:37:25 < cTn> as clicking next next next, then selecting some options, file, next again
2013-03-07T19:37:28 < cTn> itss uuusgh :s
2013-03-07T19:37:37 < jpa-> cTn: flash loader demo? the USB one or the USART one?
2013-03-07T19:37:50 < cTn> the usart one
2013-03-07T19:38:02 < jpa-> there are python scripts that do the same
2013-03-07T19:38:11 <+Steffanx> STM32 needs a usb printer bootloader!
2013-03-07T19:38:25 < jpa-> https://github.com/jsnyder/stm32loader
2013-03-07T19:39:15 < jpa-> should work anywhere pyserial does (ie. windows and anything unixy)
2013-03-07T19:39:37 < gxti> Steffanx: with otg camera support so you can take a picture of a qrcode to load
2013-03-07T19:39:44 < cTn> so thats basically all i need? compile the code in some reasonable environment, and then just execute the python script with the compiled bin
2013-03-07T19:39:53 <+Steffanx> gxti. yeah
2013-03-07T19:40:03 < jpa-> cTn: yeah.. though i would strongly suggest getting a debugger also
2013-03-07T19:40:19 <+Steffanx> gxti, lufa actually has that. A generic text printer bootloader.
2013-03-07T19:40:29 <+Steffanx> Just print the hex and done :)
2013-03-07T19:40:45 < jpa-> wtf, why :D
2013-03-07T19:41:00 <+Steffanx> "because it's possible" i guess
2013-03-07T19:41:06 < jpa-> i can see a bit of point in emulating USB MSC for firmware loading, but printer.. that's just crazy
2013-03-07T19:41:19 < gxti> nah
2013-03-07T19:41:20 <+Steffanx> its funny you can print your hex to your device :)
2013-03-07T19:41:21 <+Steffanx> http://fourwalledcubicle.com/blog/2013/03/the-new-lufa-bootloader/
2013-03-07T19:41:25 < gxti> i mean yes, but it has merits
2013-03-07T19:41:26 < cTn> i am guessing you mean something like this jpa- ? http://www.elecfreaks.com/store/stlink-iii-for-stm8-stm32-debugger-programmer-p-143.html
2013-03-07T19:42:12 < jpa-> cTn: possibly, though i have never used that.. only the stlink that comes with the discovery boards (it's cheaper, too)
2013-03-07T19:42:46 < jpa-> rumour has it that the best thing on the planet is black magic probe, but i haven't witnessed the miracle myself
2013-03-07T19:42:48 < cTn> if i remember correctly the stlink on discovery is embedded on the pcb ?
2013-03-07T19:42:52 < jpa-> yes
2013-03-07T19:43:10 < jpa-> it does have a connector so that you can use it to debug another board, too
2013-03-07T19:43:37 < cTn> should probably look into getting one then :/
2013-03-07T19:44:16 < jpa-> you can get started without
2013-03-07T19:44:30 < BJfreeman> this is cTn board http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml
2013-03-07T19:44:30 < jpa-> but a debugger makes debugging easier :P
2013-03-07T19:45:09 < jpa-> huh.. "serial debug mode"?
2013-03-07T19:45:18 < cTn> well i managed to write a whole flight controller without a debugger, if that upload script works fine
2013-03-07T19:45:18 -!- claude is now known as Claude
2013-03-07T19:45:22 < cTn> i should be good to go
2013-03-07T19:45:47 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: phantoxeD, Erlkoenig
2013-03-07T19:45:54 < jpa-> yeah, i have been doing plenty of debuggerless stuff also (because the dso quad still doesn't bring out the debugger pins..)
2013-03-07T19:46:11 < jpa-> it helps to have a good hardfault handler and memory dumping to somewhere
2013-03-07T19:46:44 < cTn> i am sure i get there one day :-)
2013-03-07T19:47:35 < cTn> lately i was just adding configurator support (which runs on win/linux/mac) whatever
2013-03-07T19:48:06 < cTn> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/31740/pictures/configurator/21.png
2013-03-07T19:49:15 < jpa-> seems that everyone and their cat is doing quadcopters nowadays
2013-03-07T19:49:32 < cTn> i dont have a cat :-))
2013-03-07T19:49:57 <+Steffanx> boring isn't it jpa- ?
2013-03-07T19:50:03 < jpa-> a bit
2013-03-07T19:50:20 < jpa-> but i guess if you reinvent the wheel enough many times, eventually you stop
2013-03-07T19:50:28 <+Steffanx> We should all build a ballbot and give it too our nephews
2013-03-07T19:50:53 < jpa-> i doubt he even plays with it :P
2013-03-07T19:51:14 < jpa-> my creations don't usually turn out as good as i hoped they would :)
2013-03-07T19:51:37 <+Steffanx> thats how its meant to be
2013-03-07T19:52:13 <+Steffanx> Means you are not perfect, yet
2013-03-07T19:52:20 < BJfreeman> shoot for mars be happy with the moon
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2013-03-07T19:52:47 < jpa-> it feels more like i'm falling further and further away from being perfect
2013-03-07T19:52:53 < cTn> well my uav doesn't hurt "me" anymore
2013-03-07T19:52:57 < BJfreeman> so cTn you have a solution?
2013-03-07T19:52:58 < cTn> so its getting better
2013-03-07T19:53:23 < BrainDamage> my creations usually end up catastrophically bad
2013-03-07T19:53:30 < cTn> BJfreeman: yes i think, using that python script should make things much easier
2013-03-07T19:53:35 <+Steffanx> which explains the Brain damage
2013-03-07T19:53:37 < BrainDamage> which isn't a terrible result per se necessarily
2013-03-07T19:53:54 < BrainDamage> ( the explosion )
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2013-03-07T19:54:10 < cTn> i am not very fund of that terrible green ide, so i will probably look if i could just run "make" from my editor
2013-03-07T19:54:16 < cTn> should make things easier
2013-03-07T19:54:37 < BrainDamage> is the the maple thing?
2013-03-07T19:54:47 < BrainDamage> grab libmaple, link against it, ????, profit!
2013-03-07T19:55:12 < BrainDamage> https://github.com/leaflabs/libmaple/commits/master
2013-03-07T19:55:13 < cTn> yup, seems that will be the way to go
2013-03-07T19:55:38 < cTn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6YU-4iTfQs
2013-03-07T19:55:46 < cTn> i don't think its that bad
2013-03-07T19:56:37 < jpa-> it's just another reinvented set of hardware drivers
2013-03-07T19:56:57 < cTn> =<
2013-03-07T19:57:33 < BrainDamage> I guess the main adv is that you can reuse arduino code
2013-03-07T19:57:45 < BrainDamage> with little to no modification
2013-03-07T19:58:00 < BrainDamage> altough that isn't necessarily a good thing ...
2013-03-07T19:58:17 < jpa-> chibios, coocox, stdperiph, libopencm3, nuttx, .net mf .. hmm, i wonder if there are any more open source HAL's for stm32
2013-03-07T19:58:34 < jpa-> ah, elua has something also i think
2013-03-07T19:58:44 < BrainDamage> rtos?
2013-03-07T20:02:54 < Tectu> jpa-, the HAL of ChibiOS/RT is open source
2013-03-07T20:03:12 < jpa-> Tectu: it's also first on my list
2013-03-07T20:03:24 < Tectu> sorry, I missunderstood
2013-03-07T20:03:39 < Tectu> does anyone here have the BB and LCD add-on board for the stm32f4 discovery from embest?
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2013-03-07T20:11:18 < trepidaciousMBR> Hi jpa-, I was just looking at your note on exception handlers at http://koti.kapsi.fi/jpa/stuff/other/stm32-hardfault-backtrace.html , where do I put that in chibios?
2013-03-07T20:11:35 < trepidaciousMBR> This is with reference to an unhandled exception I'm getting in chibi
2013-03-07T20:11:53 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: i'm not 100% sure if it is still needed with modern versions of gdb
2013-03-07T20:12:40 < jpa-> but you can define your own HardFaultVector, like this  https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/sphere2/src_common/debug.c
2013-03-07T20:13:19 < trepidaciousMBR> Ah ok, if there is something I can do in gdb that would be good, but I get an unhelpful trace at the moment
2013-03-07T20:13:49 < jpa-> i have been going around suggesting people do   set $ps=$psp, but so far it has helped no-one
2013-03-07T20:13:55 < jpa-> *$sp=$psp
2013-03-07T20:14:22 < trepidaciousMBR> Actually I get this:
2013-03-07T20:14:23 < trepidaciousMBR> http://pastie.org/6413510
2013-03-07T20:15:09 < gxti> try what jpa- said, if it works it'll make his day.
2013-03-07T20:15:15 < jpa-> a lot of people seem to be getting that
2013-03-07T20:15:27 < trepidaciousMBR> jpa-: Any idea what causes it?
2013-03-07T20:15:50 < gxti> a hard fault.
2013-03-07T20:16:06 < gxti> something accessed bad memory, most likely.
2013-03-07T20:16:12 < jpa-> hardfault probably yeah, SCB->CFSR gives the reason
2013-03-07T20:16:30 < jpa-> but *where* it was caused, you may need to dig the stack because your gdb is acting stupid
2013-03-07T20:16:43 < jpa-> x /16xw $psp   may get you started
2013-03-07T20:17:22 < gxti> if you just want something to get you a sane gdb stack i use this with chibios: http://hg.partiallystapled.com/circuits/laureline/raw-file/59f30ade2810/code/main/src/hardfault.c
2013-03-07T20:17:29 < jpa-> then     info symbol 0x0800...  for the address located at $psp + 6
2013-03-07T20:21:18 < trepidaciousMBR> Now I just get this: http://pastie.org/6413576
2013-03-07T20:21:24 < trepidaciousMBR> ah ok sorry
2013-03-07T20:21:29 < trepidaciousMBR> I didn't read the next bit ;)
2013-03-07T20:23:16 < Tectu> arm-none-eabi-gcc: fatal error: no input files
2013-03-07T20:23:18 < Tectu> wtf is this crap
2013-03-07T20:23:46 < jpa-> Tectu: you don't have enough source to go with your parameters
2013-03-07T20:24:10 < Tectu> jpa-, thanks. that helped. I wrote   src \   instead of   src/foo.c \ in my Makefile -.-'
2013-03-07T20:24:35 < jpa-> i am exceptionally helpful today
2013-03-07T20:25:27 < Tectu> you should be thankful and prise the lord!
2013-03-07T20:25:43 < trepidaciousMBR> Hm, I'm still getting nowhere :(
2013-03-07T20:26:04 < Tectu> see, jpa-, you're not helpful at all!
2013-03-07T20:26:05 < trepidaciousMBR> x /16xw $psp gives "Value can't be converted to integer."
2013-03-07T20:26:14 < trepidaciousMBR> No I didn't mean that ;)
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2013-03-07T20:27:05 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: humm.. what about "info register"?
2013-03-07T20:27:45 < trepidaciousMBR> http://pastie.org/6413619
2013-03-07T20:28:25 < jpa-> zyp: ha! there you have it! not every gdb/whatever gives you $psp! i win! :)
2013-03-07T20:28:50 < trepidaciousMBR> It's from summon-arm
2013-03-07T20:28:51 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: ok, x /16xw $sp   then
2013-03-07T20:29:25 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: also p /x SCB->CFSR  is good
2013-03-07T20:29:48 < jpa-> (someone had a nice set of gdb macros to print out the SCB->CFSR values in readable form)
2013-03-07T20:29:50 < zyp> jpa-, I think it depends on the tdesc
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2013-03-07T20:30:04 < zyp> so the gdbserver is probably to be blamed :p
2013-03-07T20:30:12 < trepidaciousMBR> http://pastie.org/6413634
2013-03-07T20:30:32 < trepidaciousMBR> This is using texane stlink
2013-03-07T20:30:44 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: ok,    info symbol 0x08011429   should give you where the error happens
2013-03-07T20:31:08 < trepidaciousMBR> Cool, I wish I knew enough to know how to do this myself ;)
2013-03-07T20:31:50 < trepidaciousMBR> cpbuf_thread + 937 in section .text, I guess that means it is that thread :)
2013-03-07T20:31:51 < jpa-> it's on the stack at the 6th location
2013-03-07T20:32:24 < trepidaciousMBR> Ah ok, so look at sp, then take the 6th address and that is the code that accessed bad memory?
2013-03-07T20:32:25 < jpa-> oh well.. you can dig around in arm-none-eabi-objdump -d foo.elf   output to see the instruction that causes the hardfault
2013-03-07T20:32:42 < jpa-> yeah.. it's the PC value before the hardfault
2013-03-07T20:33:13 < jpa-> stacked like described here http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.dui0552a/Babefdjc.html
2013-03-07T20:34:41 < jpa-> if you dig around in the "arm cortex-m3 programming manual" on st's site, you'll find out the address for SCB->CFSR and can see what causes the hardfault
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2013-03-07T20:37:49 < trepidaciousMBR> Thanks :)
2013-03-07T20:37:54 < trepidaciousMBR> So somewhere round here: http://pastie.org/6413705
2013-03-07T20:38:30 < trepidaciousMBR> How come it's 11429 rather than 11428?
2013-03-07T20:38:45 < gxti> trepidaciousMBR: arm/thumb shenanigans
2013-03-07T20:38:54 < gxti> if the LSB is set it means the target is thumb instruction set
2013-03-07T20:39:38 < gxti> that's normal, if you ever see the LSB *not* set on cortex-m you have issues :p
2013-03-07T20:40:06 < trepidaciousMBR> Ah great
2013-03-07T20:40:12 < gxti> trepidaciousMBR: did you try linking in a hardfault handler like was suggested earlier?
2013-03-07T20:40:35 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: x /1xw 0xE000ED28   for the CFSR value
2013-03-07T20:41:10 < jpa-> gxti: from the http://pastie.org/6413576  it seems he did but it didn't work
2013-03-07T20:42:07 < trepidaciousMBR> 0xe000ed28:	0x00000400
2013-03-07T20:42:35 < jpa-> good good.. a tasty IMPRECISERR there
2013-03-07T20:42:52 < gxti> the one i linked works all the time on chibios although they're both copypastad from the same source obviously
2013-03-07T20:43:22 < jpa-> gxti: copypasted from me, actually :)
2013-03-07T20:43:26 < trepidaciousMBR> I just looked that up in the datasheet, I can't say the explanation makes much sense to me!
2013-03-07T20:43:42 < gxti> jpa-: not directly
2013-03-07T20:43:58 < gxti> i don't remember seeing that specific implementation
2013-03-07T20:44:00 < trepidaciousMBR> Ah yes sorry, I added the code to main.c, it seems to have done something, but maybe not worked?
2013-03-07T20:44:02 < jpa-> gxti: maybe not, but i'm still in your url :)
2013-03-07T20:44:29 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: it's probably somewhat specific to the gdb version you are using etc.. haven't studied in detail
2013-03-07T20:44:36 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: but it is just a small inconvenience
2013-03-07T20:44:41 < gxti> jpa-: ah right you are, i was thinking of something else i saw
2013-03-07T20:44:45 < gxti> that had a bunch of printf crap
2013-03-07T20:44:51 < trepidaciousMBR> I used the one at http://hg.partiallystapled.com/circuits/laureline/raw-file/59f30ade2810/code/main/src/hardfault.c
2013-03-07T20:45:01 < gxti> hokay
2013-03-07T20:45:45 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: can you paste a objdump like  http://pastie.org/6413705   but a few more instructions above? the IMPRECISERR is reported late, so it will have occurred some time before
2013-03-07T20:45:55 < trepidaciousMBR> Yup one sec
2013-03-07T20:46:52 < trepidaciousMBR> http://pastie.org/6413793
2013-03-07T20:46:55 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: one thing you can try is to set a breakpoint somewhere close to that point and then use   "display /i $pc" and "stepi" to go instruction-by-instruction to see where the fault might occur
2013-03-07T20:48:06 < trepidaciousMBR> The cpbuf stuff is a circular buffer, the fault only seems to happen when I'm both reading and writing a lot of data, so I imagine it probably runs thousands of times before failing :(
2013-03-07T20:48:15 < jpa-> ah :/
2013-03-07T20:48:46 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: hmm.. when you search for "8011428", do you see any jumps to that location?
2013-03-07T20:48:59 < trepidaciousMBR> All it really does is use chibios sync messages to read and write data, the data is in PSRAM though, which might be relevant?
2013-03-07T20:49:28 < trepidaciousMBR> Nope, only found on that one line
2013-03-07T20:49:31 < jpa-> it's most likely an access to invalid pointer or buffer overflow somewhere
2013-03-07T20:50:07 < trepidaciousMBR> Ah if it can be that kind of thing, I can have a good read through the code again looking for that kind of thing
2013-03-07T20:50:16 < jpa-> hmm.. very strange.. i'm particularly bothered by the fact that it is a return from 'bl', but lr does not point to that place
2013-03-07T20:50:28 < jpa-> ah..
2013-03-07T20:50:37 < jpa-> but yeah, of course, no-one returns that way
2013-03-07T20:50:43 < jpa-> ignore whatever i said
2013-03-07T20:51:18 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: it's the memcpy() call that is doing something wrong.. so whatever destination or source you pass to memcpy() there is probably wrong
2013-03-07T20:51:32 < trepidaciousMBR> Ah interesting
2013-03-07T20:51:43 < jpa-> (you can use objdump -S to see source code, which gives you the .c line number where that memcpy call is)
2013-03-07T20:52:13 < trepidaciousMBR> The only thing I've encountered with that was some advice to cast src and dst to (uint8_t *) when doing non-word-aligned addresses, which I think I've done, but I'll check
2013-03-07T20:52:29 < jpa-> should not matter on cortex-m3
2013-03-07T20:52:43 < Tectu> jpa should write full "howto debug the stm32" guide
2013-03-07T20:52:51 < jpa-> Tectu: there is already a book about it
2013-03-07T20:53:05 < Tectu> jpa-, link?
2013-03-07T20:53:15 < jpa-> http://books.google.fi/books?id=T9heqSaErCcC&lpg=PA347&ots=eOusBcFg4x&dq=cortex-m3%20cfsr%20address&pg=PA347#v=onepage&q=cortex-m3%20cfsr%20address&f=false
2013-03-07T20:53:54 < jpa-> if you are unscrupulous with google, you can find a PDF of that book
2013-03-07T20:54:25 < Tectu> might you already have the link to the PDF? ;)
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2013-03-07T20:54:44 < jpa-> i might not :)
2013-03-07T20:54:54 < Tectu> awww, how cute
2013-03-07T20:55:10 < Tectu> I thought if I should buy that book or not
2013-03-07T20:58:22 < trepidaciousMBR> Thanks, objdump -S shows which memcpy it is. If I cast the src and dst to uint8_t *, presumably the only thing that can be wrong is if one of the pointers is bad? What kind of thing causes the error, pointer outside actual memory area? (I've not really done much with this kind of thing before, you can probably tell ;)
2013-03-07T21:00:39 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: it's probably a write to outside of the RAM area
2013-03-07T21:01:56 < trepidaciousMBR> Great, I'll have a look at that tomorrow and see if I can work out what would cause it, thanks for all the help
2013-03-07T21:02:41 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: if you want, pastebin me an objdump of your memcpy and i'll tell you the exact problem :)
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2013-03-07T21:05:33 < trepidaciousMBR> Cool, what did you need exactly? More of the dump I pasted earlier?
2013-03-07T21:05:57 < jpa-> the part with the "memcpy" function
2013-03-07T21:06:11 < trepidaciousMBR> Ah right
2013-03-07T21:06:13 < jpa-> (which starts at 8000310)
2013-03-07T21:07:11 < trepidaciousMBR> http://pastie.org/6413939
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2013-03-07T21:11:01 < trepidaciousMBR> I can also stick some checks in before the memcpy to see if I can catch anything unexpected
2013-03-07T21:11:39 < trepidaciousMBR> The source should always be in PSRAM (anywhere in it, the whole PSRAM is one big buffer), and the destination is probably always in the same array, now I think about it
2013-03-07T21:13:49 < trepidaciousMBR> I'll just be afk a bit, gonna get something to eat
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2013-03-07T21:19:17 < jpa-> when he comes back, tell him that it looks like he is trying to copy -786446 bytes from 0x63c7ffc8 to 0x20007ca8
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2013-03-07T21:38:23 < Tectu> can anyone tell me anything about this?    arm-none-eabi-gcc: error: nano.specs: No such file or directory
2013-03-07T21:41:33 < BJfreeman> guess it is looking for a file nano.specs and not finding it in the path
2013-03-07T21:41:42 < jpa-> indeed :)
2013-03-07T21:42:04 < Tectu> yes, but what the hell is nano.specs?
2013-03-07T21:42:39 < jpa-> grep -r nano.specs your_project_directory
2013-03-07T21:43:01 < jpa-> apparently some newlib stuff
2013-03-07T21:44:09 < Tectu> I did do that, didn't found anything, jpa-
2013-03-07T21:44:22 < Tectu> also, i didn't had that error ever bevore, and it's for 100% not ChibiOS related
2013-03-07T21:44:33 < jpa-> sounds like broken toolchain
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2013-03-07T21:46:39 < Tectu> out of the no-where
2013-03-07T21:50:08 < BJfreeman> check the make file
2013-03-07T21:50:29 < Tectu> BJfreeman, for what exactly? it's the same makefile of the same project that built perfectly three days ago
2013-03-07T21:55:40 < BJfreeman> as sherlock holmes says  Do Not Reason From Insufficient Data
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2013-03-07T22:03:43 <+Steffanx> Sherlock Holmes doesn't say anything. As he is made by a fantasy BJfreeman
2013-03-07T22:04:04 <+Steffanx> *is a fictional character
2013-03-07T22:04:04 < Tectu> jpa-, BJfreeman error found: http://forum.chibios.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1011&p=9536#p9535
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2013-03-07T22:07:23 < BJfreeman> OK sir author Doyle :P
2013-03-07T22:08:32 < BJfreeman> Authur
2013-03-07T22:09:19 <+Steffanx> Im not dead
2013-03-07T22:11:42 < Tectu> Steffanx, I hope so!
2013-03-07T22:11:58 <+Steffanx> I bet you dont, but.. ok
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2013-03-07T22:13:30 < Tectu> I do
2013-03-07T22:13:49 < Tectu> I love you with all my heart and my life would be pointless without you
2013-03-07T22:13:58 <+Steffanx> Wouldn't it be much nicer to finally talk to a dead guy?
2013-03-07T22:14:34 < Tectu> I don't know, but I think not
2013-03-07T22:14:42 < Tectu> "but I don't think so*"
2013-03-07T22:16:51 <+Steffanx> ok
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2013-03-07T22:38:02 < trepidaciousMBR> jpa-: Did the memcpy make any sense?
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2013-03-07T23:28:49 < Laurenceb_> arg wtf america
2013-03-07T23:29:23 < Laurenceb_>  $2600 for 4 day conference in New Hampshire
2013-03-07T23:29:44 < emeb> conference on what?
2013-03-07T23:30:06 < Laurenceb_> oxygen transpor tin tissue
2013-03-07T23:30:10 < Laurenceb_> ISOTT
2013-03-07T23:30:41 < emeb> does that cover lodging / food?
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2013-03-07T23:31:02 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-07T23:31:19 < Laurenceb_> going to have to be some really good food...
2013-03-07T23:31:24 < emeb> could be worse I guess. been a long time since I went to a conference tho.
2013-03-07T23:32:08 < emeb> $650/day - yeah. Unlikely the food is worth it alone. Very exclusive conference.
2013-03-07T23:32:39 < Laurenceb_> usually <30 people there
2013-03-07T23:32:56 < emeb> Ah - Dartmouth.
2013-03-07T23:33:09 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-07T23:33:13 < Laurenceb_> heard of it?
2013-03-07T23:33:33 < emeb> One of my former bosses got his masters there.
2013-03-07T23:33:45 < emeb> Well regarded Ivy-League school.
2013-03-07T23:33:52 < Laurenceb_> i see
2013-03-07T23:34:02 < Laurenceb_> its low down in uni league table tho
2013-03-07T23:34:24 < emeb> BASIC was invented there!
2013-03-07T23:34:40 < Laurenceb_> rofl
2013-03-07T23:34:53 < emeb> dunno if that's +/-.
2013-03-07T23:35:07 < Laurenceb_> i used to run bascom basic...
2013-03-07T23:35:11 < Laurenceb_> back before arduino
2013-03-07T23:35:25 < emeb> on PIC?
2013-03-07T23:35:31 < Laurenceb_> avr
2013-03-07T23:35:35 < Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_BASIC  <- lulz
2013-03-07T23:35:42 < Laurenceb_> brilliant
2013-03-07T23:35:48 < Laurenceb_> do they have a museum?
2013-03-07T23:36:05 < Laurenceb_> cuz they should
2013-03-07T23:36:29 < emeb> Museum of BASIC - complete with TRS-80, Commodore 64, etc.
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2013-03-07T23:38:15 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2013-03-07T23:38:33 < Laurenceb_> i could donate my old avr projects
2013-03-07T23:39:03 < Laurenceb_> and my bbc model b
2013-03-07T23:39:35 < emeb> proto ARM.
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2013-03-07T23:54:54 < Laurenceb_> guess ill have to take part in some traditional activites...
2013-03-07T23:54:57 < Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cFS4Zih_mc
2013-03-07T23:55:02 < Laurenceb_>  (NSFP)
2013-03-07T23:55:07 < Laurenceb_> not safe for PETA
2013-03-07T23:57:49  * Laurenceb_ adds to his trolling repository
--- Day changed Fri Mar 08 2013
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2013-03-08T00:03:12 < GargantuaSauce> Tectu: -f /usr/share/openocd/scripts/board/stm32f4discovery.cfg
2013-03-08T00:03:16 < GargantuaSauce> if that is still of use to you
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2013-03-08T00:29:19 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb_ http://adultcatfinder.com/
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2013-03-08T00:45:29 < Laurenceb_> wtf
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2013-03-08T00:48:07 < dirty_d2> oh no, i blew one of my ESCs
2013-03-08T00:53:36 < qyx_> smoke has been released
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2013-03-08T00:57:15 < dirty_d2> i think i just need 6 new fets
2013-03-08T00:57:35 < dirty_d2> but im not sure which to use to replace these communist ones
2013-03-08T00:57:47 < dirty_d2> p0603bd
2013-03-08T00:59:52 < qyx_> any logic level n mosfet in to-252 package
2013-03-08T01:05:34 < Laurenceb_> arg
2013-03-08T01:05:42 < Laurenceb_> firefox pdf is sooo bad
2013-03-08T01:05:57 < Laurenceb_> scrolling at ~1frame/second
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2013-03-08T01:13:27 < dirty_d2> qyx_, i dont think this is logic level
2013-03-08T01:13:27 < dirty_d2> is it?
2013-03-08T01:13:28 < dirty_d2> the gate drive is 12v on this board
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2013-03-08T01:15:39 < Laurenceb_> lolz it cant render µ rotated through 90degrees
2013-03-08T01:15:55 < qyx_> then it doesnt really matter, it don't have to be
2013-03-08T01:16:36 < qyx_> logic level mosfets can also withstand such high gate voltage, it depends on mosfet
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2013-03-08T01:20:43 < gxti> the lowly 2n7002 has a gate-source voltage of +/-20V
2013-03-08T01:20:57 < gxti> so it's certainly probable
2013-03-08T01:21:06 < gxti> just RTFDS, as always
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2013-03-08T06:32:12 < zippe> RIP Toren Smith
2013-03-08T06:32:25 < dongs> what the fuck
2013-03-08T06:32:25 < dongs> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1107117096/hydra-a-triple-output-power-supply-for-electronics
2013-03-08T06:33:54 < baird> zippe: oh, bugger.
2013-03-08T06:35:17 < R2COM> so dude says that we dont have compact power supplies (or cant build them if necessary) and need to buy his shit
2013-03-08T06:36:05 < R2COM> so what is that $87000 ?
2013-03-08T06:36:19 < R2COM> like his development cost or what
2013-03-08T06:36:41 < zippe> That's what he's been promised
2013-03-08T06:36:55 < zippe> dongs: $200 each is like, wtf
2013-03-08T06:37:11 < zippe> I mean, it's a nice little unit, but w.t.f.
2013-03-08T06:37:17 < dongs> yeah man.
2013-03-08T06:37:35 < R2COM> I mean, you take switcher, put on custom board and there it is..
2013-03-08T06:37:58 < dongs> sure
2013-03-08T06:38:00 < R2COM> and get a programmable reg if needed...
2013-03-08T06:38:18 < R2COM> most projects will still require something custom, for one reason or another.
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2013-03-08T06:39:43 < R2COM> so whats that "pledge " thing?
2013-03-08T06:39:47 < R2COM> someone to donate to him?
2013-03-08T06:39:52 < dongs> yes
2013-03-08T06:39:56 < dongs> you give $200 and get that thing.
2013-03-08T06:40:00 < dongs> when its done
2013-03-08T06:40:05 < dongs> .. or not, if he decides to fail
2013-03-08T06:40:08 < dongs> like most dickstarter projects
2013-03-08T06:40:29 < ds2> does it have current limits progammable down to 1uA?
2013-03-08T06:41:28 < R2COM> so he advertises it as tool to be used almost anywhere, where is temperature regime
2013-03-08T06:41:46 < R2COM> I'd maybe understand if its designed for -40-105C
2013-03-08T06:41:51 < baird> 2.5A max. :S
2013-03-08T06:41:52 < R2COM> and tested in those conditions
2013-03-08T06:41:53 < dongs> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/myidkey/myidkey-passwords-at-the-tip-of-your-finger?ref=category
2013-03-08T06:41:56 < dongs> loll
2013-03-08T06:42:20 < R2COM> $150000 is what he wants for development?
2013-03-08T06:43:13 < dongs> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/quo/projectq-run-any-os-the-unique-motherboard?ref=category
2013-03-08T06:43:16 < dongs> ???
2013-03-08T06:43:45 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Disconnected by services]
2013-03-08T06:43:52 < dongs> no firewire 800, displayport, highcurrent USB plugs, ???
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2013-03-08T06:45:33 < dongs> oh fw800 on osme header
2013-03-08T06:46:03 < dongs> pics are some gigabyte mobo
2013-03-08T06:47:15 < dongs> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1312527055/micro-usb-on-off-power-switch-for-raspberry-pi
2013-03-08T06:47:18 < dongs> ahahaha
2013-03-08T06:49:21 < R2COM> :?
2013-03-08T06:49:26 < dongs> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1106670630/mojo-digital-design-for-the-hobbyist?ref=category
2013-03-08T06:50:18 < Tectu> using the PAL_MODE_ALTERNATE(n) macro provided by ChibiOS/RT so set the pin mode on an STM32F4. There are different alternative mode leves? what?
2013-03-08T06:50:35 < dongs> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/annikaskywalker/microprocessor-about-the-cost-and-size-of-a-pack-o ...
2013-03-08T06:51:28 < Tectu> yes
2013-03-08T06:51:30 < Tectu> jesus
2013-03-08T06:51:33 < R2COM> another fpga with headers.. and of course like most douchebags, he wasted some pins for LEds... if you making fucking breakout, breakout as much as you can and dont put fucking leds
2013-03-08T06:53:14 < dongs> this must be emeb_mac project http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2006771911/the-arduino-dsp-shield
2013-03-08T06:53:41 < emeb_mac> lame
2013-03-08T06:53:54 < dongs> https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/315/861/1b9219a63cdeeab15fa33bb8eef73ec5_large.png?1356468367 im not actually sure what the fuck is on the board?
2013-03-08T06:53:57 < dongs> just a couple resistors???
2013-03-08T06:53:59 < dongs> where's the "dsp"
2013-03-08T06:54:07 < dongs> on the back i hope?
2013-03-08T06:54:20 < R2COM> here is my latest cpld breakout, all pins are broken out except one clock
2013-03-08T06:54:20 < R2COM> http://imgur.com/F3tUdWa
2013-03-08T06:54:23 < emeb_mac> nope - just pwm audio out, adc in
2013-03-08T06:54:39 < dongs> pcbnew.. isnt htat geda?
2013-03-08T06:54:40 < R2COM> and two additional high speed clocks via sma's
2013-03-08T06:54:42 < Tectu> guys, might one of you just quickly tell me about the different alternative pin mode levels of the F4? o0
2013-03-08T06:54:46 < R2COM> its kicad
2013-03-08T06:54:51 < dongs> even worse
2013-03-08T06:54:52 < dongs> k
2013-03-08T06:54:59 < zippe> Tectu: "pin mode levels" what?
2013-03-08T06:55:19 < dongs> wyeah wtf are you talkign about
2013-03-08T06:55:41 < Tectu> zippe, dongs   http://chibios.sourceforge.net/docs/hal_stm32f4xx_rm/group___p_a_l.html#ga2e06c8bb1084c1e60d2d0e0949e3ed05
2013-03-08T06:55:46 < dongs> R2COM: which cpld is thaT? some xilinx thing?
2013-03-08T06:55:49 < Tectu> dafuq is   alternate function selector
2013-03-08T06:56:01 < R2COM> dongs:  xc2c32a
2013-03-08T06:56:02 < dongs> uh
2013-03-08T06:56:04 < Tectu> does the F4 have multiple alternative pin functions on the same pin you can choose from?
2013-03-08T06:56:05 < zippe> Tectu: have you read the datasheet yet?
2013-03-08T06:56:06 < dongs> Tectu: AF
2013-03-08T06:56:10 < emeb_mac> discovered a feature that diptrace is missing...
2013-03-08T06:56:16 < dongs> emeb_mac: orly?
2013-03-08T06:56:17 < zippe> Tectu: because it explains all of this.
2013-03-08T06:56:23 < emeb_mac> can't view solder mask in main screen
2013-03-08T06:56:25 < dongs> R2COM: hmpf
2013-03-08T06:56:26 < Tectu> zippe, yes, I just try to find out where I know from which one is wich
2013-03-08T06:56:31 < Tectu> which*
2013-03-08T06:56:32 < dongs> emeb_mac: sure you can?
2013-03-08T06:56:38 < dongs> what do you mean can't 'view'
2013-03-08T06:56:41 < zippe> Tectu: have you read the datasheet, because it explains all of that.
2013-03-08T06:57:00 < Tectu> Thank you very much for being helpful.
2013-03-08T06:57:01 < emeb_mac> dongs: seems you need to export to gerber & preview to see the mask
2013-03-08T06:57:20 < Tectu> It's not that I would ask because I think it's fun, zippe
2013-03-08T06:57:24 < emeb_mac> clicking on the mask layers in the sidebar does nothing.
2013-03-08T06:57:26 < zippe> Tectu: I'm serious. If you have read the datasheet, and you still don't get it, then I can try to help you understand.
2013-03-08T06:57:29 < dongs> if you put down some mask layers you will see them
2013-03-08T06:57:30 < dongs> oh
2013-03-08T06:57:38 < dongs> thats only for custom-put mask stuff
2013-03-08T06:57:42 < dongs> like ones you put on your board.
2013-03-08T06:57:42 < emeb_mac> lame
2013-03-08T06:57:45 < zippe> Tectu: but if you haven't read the datasheet, then it's going to require a lot of typing.
2013-03-08T06:58:02 < zippe> I would rather know that you have read the section in the datasheet that explains pin multiplexing first.
2013-03-08T06:58:02 < R2COM> so pay 900$ x 3 more, and get Altium :P
2013-03-08T06:58:09 < dongs> Tectu: each pin on F4 has like 16 possible AF functions
2013-03-08T06:58:14 < Tectu> zippe, that's pretty much what I am am trying to do. I did start my question on "a lower level" to be sure that you could correct me if I get it wrong (that you have multiple AF's per pin)
2013-03-08T06:58:23 < dongs> emeb_mac: what situation do you ened to see mask
2013-03-08T06:58:28 < dongs> i generally just let it auto-create everythign
2013-03-08T06:58:31 < dongs> and board house has no issues
2013-03-08T06:58:34 < zippe> Tectu: the datasheet.
2013-03-08T06:58:36 < dongs> including doing hashing on large pads etc
2013-03-08T06:58:49 < zippe> Tectu: specifically, the large table that tells you what peripherals are mapped to which AF on which pin.
2013-03-08T06:58:52 < emeb_mac> dongs: when I did a pour with some components on it - wanted to see what got masked.
2013-03-08T06:58:52 < zippe> Tectu: have you read it?
2013-03-08T06:59:05 < Tectu> zippe, by datasheet, do you mean the actual datasheet or the reference manual?
2013-03-08T06:59:21 < dongs> ugh
2013-03-08T06:59:25 < zippe> If I meant "reference manual", I would have said "reference manual"
2013-03-08T06:59:25 < dongs> tectu, stop being a dick
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2013-03-08T06:59:41 < Tectu> dongs, okay
2013-03-08T07:00:00 < dongs> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pisupply/pi-supply-intelligent-power-switch-for-raspberry-p?ref=category haha
2013-03-08T07:00:07 < Tectu> zippe, then no, I have only read the reference manual. I will read the datasheet after I catch my bus. I thank you very much for giving that pointer
2013-03-08T07:00:32 < zippe> Tectu: I take it from your response that the answer is "no". Go look at the table; if it's still confusing, or you wonder why it's in the datasheet and not the reference manual, then we can talk later.
2013-03-08T07:00:59 < zippe> Also, be mostly thankful that ST's pin mux is reasonably simple, at least in the F4, and the documentation is fairly good.
2013-03-08T07:01:30 < dongs> yeah the docs are nice for AF
2013-03-08T07:01:40 < dongs> but they fucked up on F34
2013-03-08T07:01:41 < dongs> F3
2013-03-08T07:01:48 < dongs> on F4 stdlib, they have proper af names
2013-03-08T07:01:50 < dongs> like AF_UART bla
2013-03-08T07:01:51 < zippe> Did they go back to the F1 nonsense?
2013-03-08T07:02:03 < dongs> no, its same as F4 but they didnt name them
2013-03-08T07:02:03 < dirty_d2> dongs, is it?
2013-03-08T07:02:07 < dongs> so its just AF_1 or wahtever
2013-03-08T07:02:08 < dirty_d2> thats all i know
2013-03-08T07:02:10 < dongs> and you ahve to lookup in datasheet
2013-03-08T07:02:13 < emeb_mac> right - f3 just has numbers
2013-03-08T07:02:15 < zippe> Oh, someone got lazy.
2013-03-08T07:02:19 < emeb_mac> yea
2013-03-08T07:02:38 < emeb_mac> f4 has lots of periph names that all map to the same numbers.
2013-03-08T07:02:39 < zippe> The F4 has really outgrown their architecture
2013-03-08T07:02:45 < zippe> They need more DMA channels
2013-03-08T07:02:51 < emeb_mac> moar!
2013-03-08T07:02:52 < zippe> And more outputs from the pin mux
2013-03-08T07:02:58 < dongs> yeah and they blew it with F3
2013-03-08T07:03:03 < dongs> reused F1 DMA engine
2013-03-08T07:03:06 < dongs> oops.
2013-03-08T07:03:13 < zippe> The F3 really doesn't do it for me
2013-03-08T07:03:22 < emeb_mac> why not?
2013-03-08T07:03:24 < dongs> nah its fine
2013-03-08T07:03:30 < emeb_mac> too limited?
2013-03-08T07:03:37 < dirty_d2> ive only used the f3
2013-03-08T07:03:40 < zippe> Just nothing that I need
2013-03-08T07:03:52 < dongs> when they put F4 in lfqp48 i'll use it
2013-03-08T07:03:53 < zippe> The F427 really needed a third DMA controller
2013-03-08T07:03:58 < zippe> DMA1 is just hopelessly overloaded
2013-03-08T07:04:12 < emeb_mac> I like that F3 comes in a tiny pkg and is fairly inexpensive.
2013-03-08T07:04:20 < zippe> And when you need a bunch of timer pins, you end up screwed out of UARTs
2013-03-08T07:04:41 < zippe> Going up a package size doesn't help, because nothing useful is muxed on the high pins
2013-03-08T07:04:42 < dongs> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1233981955/linuxonandroid-to-the-next-level ????
2013-03-08T07:05:10 < dongs> This opens a whole new world of possibilities to your Android device:
2013-03-08T07:05:10 < dongs> Ever wanted to run a web server from a phone?
2013-03-08T07:05:10 < dongs> Have some Linux software you really wish you had where ever you go?
2013-03-08T07:05:10 < dongs> Want to have just one device that can do everything you need?
2013-03-08T07:05:21 < dirty_d2> what the hell is this shit
2013-03-08T07:05:23 < dongs> 1) No 2) No 3) Yes, and I already do
2013-03-08T07:05:26 < dirty_d2> they dont need money to make software
2013-03-08T07:05:30 < zippe> I asked ST for a '437 eval board, and they said well, no, we don't have any in stock; how about this f3discovery instead?
2013-03-08T07:05:37 < gxti> pasting on blogs
2013-03-08T07:06:07 < dongs> https://youtube.com/watch?v=3_AiWoTjO78
2013-03-08T07:06:08 < zippe> junior FAEs are so kawaii
2013-03-08T07:06:47 < dirty_d2> if they cant make this linux on android for free, they cant do it for 600 pounds
2013-03-08T07:06:49 < emeb_mac> is there a 437 eval?
2013-03-08T07:09:25 < zippe> emeb_mac: yes, 40 day lead right now
2013-03-08T07:10:03 < zippe> we got 10 samples, considering one of the mikroe 4xx breakout pcbs + their baseboard
2013-03-08T07:10:18 < zippe> but we're building half of them into protos
2013-03-08T07:10:32 < zippe> if the proto doesn't smoke, won't need the breakout
2013-03-08T07:12:25 < dongs> zippe, i heard rumors some new upcoming device is running DeadBSD
2013-03-08T07:12:30 < dongs> on AMD cpu
2013-03-08T07:13:29 < zippe> dongs: I'm sure someone somewhere is doing something like that
2013-03-08T07:14:02 < dongs> im talking consumer/mass produced device.
2013-03-08T07:14:27 < dongs> https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/363/486/6e91f5cf8cf76e214b73792cd214f823_large.jpg?1359589313
2013-03-08T07:15:37 < zippe> Why would you gold-plate a heatsink?
2013-03-08T07:15:42 < dongs> who knows
2013-03-08T07:15:50 < emeb_mac> prolly just regular enig
2013-03-08T07:16:08 < dongs> its arduino compatible
2013-03-08T07:16:10 < dongs> so no worries
2013-03-08T07:16:25 < ds2> Mmmm ENIG
2013-03-08T07:16:52 < emeb_mac> oshpark is all enig - pretty nice.
2013-03-08T07:16:58 < dongs> https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/348/608/c5d5fbcf5bbec1f8d79d746b84a9b50c_large.jpg?1358806756
2013-03-08T07:17:16 < emeb_mac> before I got some boards from them I thought it would be hard to solder, but it's just fine.
2013-03-08T07:17:27 < dongs> isnt it *easier* to solder?
2013-03-08T07:17:30 < ds2> I wonder why some places like to do HASL
2013-03-08T07:17:45 < emeb_mac> cheaper?
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2013-03-08T07:17:57 < ds2> given how thin the G is, is it really?
2013-03-08T07:18:01 < dongs> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/254558907/data-acquisition-system-for-raspberry-pi?ref=category
2013-03-08T07:18:14 < gxti> well it does cost you more to buy ENIG boards than HASL ones
2013-03-08T07:18:22 < gxti> so either they're all just fucking with you, or it costs more to make
2013-03-08T07:18:40 < ds2> it is mix... some places default to ENIG w/o extra cost, other want to charge more
2013-03-08T07:18:41 < dongs> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/706888163/space-drone-2?ref=category another emebproj
2013-03-08T07:19:13 < emeb_mac> meh
2013-03-08T07:19:19 < gxti> going shopping, dongs?
2013-03-08T07:19:25 < emeb_mac> square waves - n00bsauce.
2013-03-08T07:19:45 < dongs> https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/446789/photo-main.jpg?1360841624 opensource tool for hobbyists and professional makers
2013-03-08T07:19:56 < dongs> https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/400/486/1c5006772fa9cb2a225bb00a729f3f16_large.JPG?1361449249
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2013-03-08T07:21:47 < dongs> OpendunoGSM can also be considered an SMS gateway that will send to the serial port of your PC the text and the phone number of text messages received so that you can process or integrate them into your database. The fields of application are truly endless.
2013-03-08T07:22:02 < emeb_mac> blorptastic.
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2013-03-08T07:22:38 < emeb_mac> love all the glue on that psu
2013-03-08T07:23:20 < ds2> hey...that's "INSULATION"!
2013-03-08T07:23:26 < ds2> can't have a shock hazard!
2013-03-08T07:23:42 < emeb_mac> more likely anti-vibration to keep noise down.
2013-03-08T07:26:42 < dongs> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/89708250/cross-platform-mobile-app-for-biblical-science-and haha
2013-03-08T07:27:28 < dongs> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/oscope/script-controlled-oscilloscope?ref=category wtf, dspic scope?
2013-03-08T07:27:44 < dongs> I wonder if he signed the drivers
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2013-03-08T07:28:31 < ds2> dongs: the STM32 based one is too fast
2013-03-08T07:28:35 < dongs> yeah
2013-03-08T07:28:38 < gxti> xp lol
2013-03-08T07:28:39 < dongs> that must be it
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2013-03-08T07:29:50 < dongs> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1375236253/stepperature-open-source-quadrature-hand-wheel?ref=category ???
2013-03-08T07:32:06 < GargantuaSauce> having fun dongs?
2013-03-08T07:33:46 < ds2> dongs: do you guys use something special for the silkscreen layer?
2013-03-08T07:33:47 < GargantuaSauce> if you go through kickstarter and point out all the ridiculous ones, what will even be left?!
2013-03-08T07:34:09 < dongs> ds2: like?
2013-03-08T07:34:27 < dongs> you mean how its printed?
2013-03-08T07:34:31 < ds2> donno
2013-03-08T07:34:47 < ds2> I got my microscope setup and your board's silk screen looks different then other boards
2013-03-08T07:34:53 < dongs> yes
2013-03-08T07:35:01 < ds2> i.e. the edges are smooth whereas teh other ones are all ragged
2013-03-08T07:35:32 < ds2> very unusual. all the other boards I looked at from products are ragged
2013-03-08T07:35:37 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/GEIUA.jpg its high res, those afromini letters are < 1mm
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2013-03-08T07:38:15 < ds2> yes, it is smooth. other boards are ragged
2013-03-08T07:41:10 < gxti> hi-res silkscreen is basically a second layer of soldermask
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2013-03-08T07:47:28 < ds2> but why do the other folks just have a ragged edge
2013-03-08T07:48:08 < gxti> because the resolution is so much lower
2013-03-08T07:48:29 < ds2> really?. it is ragged, not jagged like an atari 2600 game
2013-03-08T07:49:38 < gxti> https://secure.flickr.com/photos/russdill/8534303811/
2013-03-08T07:50:07 < gxti> somebody really likes PCBs
2013-03-08T07:50:27 < ds2> oh him...hehe
2013-03-08T07:51:21 < ds2> yeah... dong's board is smooth like that
2013-03-08T07:51:29 < ds2> somehow none of the other boards I looked at are like that
2013-03-08T07:51:52 < gxti> just a variation in how it's printed i guess
2013-03-08T07:52:09 < gxti> the high rse stuff is totally different, it's smooth because it's just that good
2013-03-08T07:52:18 < gxti> but the one i linked is low res
2013-03-08T07:52:37 < gxti> it just looks more like icing than like a dot-matrix printer for some reason
2013-03-08T07:52:47 < gxti> who knows
2013-03-08T07:54:09 < dongs> https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8102/8534309913_8cf7df2ff7_o.jpg lol geda
2013-03-08T08:13:29 < Tectu> zippe, I read the datasheet now and I fully understand the AF stuff. Thanks for the help!
2013-03-08T08:13:37 < Tectu> the RM was really the wrong way to look
2013-03-08T08:13:46 < R2COM> that last project on kickstarter is fine, but people can do it themselves
2013-03-08T08:16:27 < R2COM> hmm
2013-03-08T08:16:28 < R2COM> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1838656053/tactical-pen?ref=discover_pop
2013-03-08T08:17:45 < R2COM> what about tactical condom
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2013-03-08T08:20:11 < dongs> tactical dong
2013-03-08T08:21:07 < R2COM> 3:16 thats who needed it
2013-03-08T08:21:34 < dongs> wat
2013-03-08T08:21:44 < R2COM> the video on that page
2013-03-08T08:21:58 < R2COM> anyhow, I'd buy that but if it were maybe tactical pencil
2013-03-08T08:22:03 < R2COM> which can hold 0.7mm grips
2013-03-08T08:22:08 < R2COM> leads I mean
2013-03-08T08:22:37 < R2COM> whole body titanium construction or aluminium construction, no plastic, all metallic parts inside, and holding 0.7mm leads
2013-03-08T08:22:40 < R2COM> I'd buy that one
2013-03-08T08:22:49 < dongs> heh
2013-03-08T08:26:34 < R2COM> right now using draft matic Alvin
2013-03-08T08:27:01 < R2COM> I wanted to buy Porsche pencil but dont like its look quite much
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2013-03-08T08:28:51 < dongs> i ahvent needed a pen or a pencil for anything in the last 5+ years
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2013-03-08T08:29:05 < dongs> usually when I have to sign something there's a pen at the place where i do it.
2013-03-08T08:29:12 < dongs> probably last 10+ actually
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2013-03-08T08:29:46 < BJfreeman> dongs that would make you  3 at that time
2013-03-08T08:29:53 < dongs> i kno rite
2013-03-08T08:29:55 < R2COM> I use pencil tons of time per day when I sketch circuits/formulas/other stuff
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2013-03-08T08:44:10 < dongs> btw yeah
2013-03-08T08:44:22 < dongs> i asked the dude, highres silk is done same process as solder mask
2013-03-08T08:44:31 < dongs> thas why its smooth
2013-03-08T08:58:00 < emeb_mac> dongs: in diptrace, whats the best way to get a good logo in the silk?
2013-03-08T08:58:11 < dongs> import bitmap
2013-03-08T08:58:17 < dongs> but that will look like ass
2013-03-08T08:58:23 < dongs> unless you set silk resolution in gerber higher
2013-03-08T08:58:28 < dongs> you can also try import dxf
2013-03-08T08:58:31 < dongs> as 'add' mode
2013-03-08T08:58:46 < dongs> but i think bitmap + setting 'resolution' for silk layer export is enough
2013-03-08T08:58:53 < emeb_mac> thx
2013-03-08T08:59:26 < emeb_mac> btw - is it normal for the picture to be rendered behind the copper layer in the main view?
2013-03-08T08:59:43 < emeb_mac> ie - I have to turn off the copper to see the picture.
2013-03-08T09:00:08 < dongs> yeah, thats been buggy like that in forever
2013-03-08T09:00:11 < dongs> i have a bug open on it.
2013-03-08T09:00:19 < dongs> it looks ok in 3d preview and in export
2013-03-08T09:00:22 < emeb_mac> OK - not doing something wrong.
2013-03-08T09:00:24 < dongs> but fucks up in regular work
2013-03-08T09:20:03 < flop> What are the essential pins to connect on the stm32f4 to get it to work??
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2013-03-08T09:24:27 < jpa-> flop: PDR_ON to Vdd, NRST can be left floating if you are crazy, Vcap 1 and 2 both need 2.2µF capacitor
2013-03-08T09:26:19 < flop> I believe 100qfp does not have pdr_on?
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2013-03-08T09:31:35 < flop> also I'm not sure if I should tie boot0 somewhere
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2013-03-08T09:37:26 < zippe> flop: tie boot0 low
2013-03-08T09:37:44 < zippe> flop: nrst can be left floating; there is a ~40k pullup internally
2013-03-08T09:38:07 < zippe> flop: tie boot1 low as well.
2013-03-08T09:38:45 < zippe> tie AVDD to VDD (critical)
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2013-03-08T09:44:29 < flop> zippe: ok, thanks I'll try your suggestions
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2013-03-08T10:12:08 < dongs> uh
2013-03-08T10:12:12 < dongs> nrst floating = bad idea
2013-03-08T10:12:18 < dongs> you want 4.7k on it
2013-03-08T10:12:25 < dongs> or else it could easily be resetted by random noise around
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2013-03-08T10:17:36 < jpa-> the internal pullup is enough to avoid random noise, unless you touch the pin
2013-03-08T10:18:33 < jpa-> flop: if you want to do something with it, bring out the NRST pin and SWDIO and SWCLK to a connector
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2013-03-08T10:23:54 < jpa-> (and GND)
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2013-03-08T10:47:33 < flop> Do I need a 3.3V on the connector as well?
2013-03-08T10:47:52 < zyp> omitting it is bad practice
2013-03-08T10:48:50 < zyp> it's common for debug adapters to use the target voltage as a reference for a voltage translators, and thus require it
2013-03-08T10:49:23 < flop> So I need 5 pins for programming? (NRST, SWDIO, SWCLK, GND, 3.3V) ?
2013-03-08T10:49:44 < zyp> yes
2013-03-08T10:49:51 < flop> ok
2013-03-08T10:50:12 < zyp> nrst is not strictly required, but good to have if you need to recover from deep sleep or other modes where swd is disabled
2013-03-08T10:50:25 < flop> ok
2013-03-08T10:51:45 < zyp> when making boards I prefer using a standard cortex debug connector with all pins broken out
2013-03-08T10:52:24 < zyp> SWO could be nice to have at some point in the future, even though I haven't used it yet
2013-03-08T10:53:05 < zyp> and even though JTDI is not used in SWD mode, I tend to grab that as well unless I need that pin for something else
2013-03-08T10:53:32 < zyp> (well, the last board I did required to have JTAG mode anyway)
2013-03-08T10:54:27 < flop> what jtag interface/programmer do you use?
2013-03-08T10:56:07 < zyp> blackmagic probe
2013-03-08T10:57:39 < flop> from which company?
2013-03-08T10:58:54 < zyp> http://www.blacksphere.co.nz/main/index.php/blackmagic
2013-03-08T11:05:56 < flop> thanks
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2013-03-08T11:59:25 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: 
2013-03-08T11:59:35 < jpa-> 21:19:17 < jpa-> when he comes back, tell him that it looks like he is trying to copy -786446 bytes from 0x63c7ffc8 to 0x20007ca8
2013-03-08T12:05:42 < karlp> how did you work that out from the objdump of memcpy?
2013-03-08T12:05:58 < karlp> or was there another paste that had some of the register contents that you worked out the args of memcpy?
2013-03-08T12:08:19 < jpa-> yes
2013-03-08T12:08:34 < jpa-> there were 'info registers' and 'x /16xw $sp' pastes earlier
2013-03-08T12:09:09 < jpa-> in ideal case of course gdb would have just showed the arguments, but i don't know why it doesn't always do backtrace correctly in hardfaults
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2013-03-08T12:44:35 < trepidaciousMBR> Thanks, that's great, I'll see what braindead thing my code is doing to cause that :)
2013-03-08T12:45:25 < trepidaciousMBR> Or maybe it's actually reading the wrong length from PSRAM somehow
2013-03-08T12:47:02 < karlp> zippe: is f437 desired vs 417 for the extra uarts?
2013-03-08T12:50:04 < trepidaciousMBR> Also, 0x63c7ffc8 is outside the PSRAM address range
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2013-03-08T15:02:33 < Laurenceb> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/08/go-pro-caption-contest.jpg
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2013-03-08T15:14:26 < dongs> thats thenew google glass
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2013-03-08T15:27:00 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: yeah, and actually below the address range.. so negative index, negative length.. perfectly reasonable :)
2013-03-08T15:27:20 < trepidaciousMBR> Yeah, two wrongs make a right ;)
2013-03-08T15:28:13 < trepidaciousMBR> I put chDbgAsserts everywhere to get stack etc., I'm pretty sure its just a logical error in my circular buffer, results in reading a random location as a pointer to the next packet in the buffer, and from there you get weird addresses and lengths.
2013-03-08T15:28:30 < trepidaciousMBR> I've made myself a cheat sheet from the commands you suggested as well, should help next time :)
2013-03-08T15:29:52 <+dekar> Steffanx, fix them yourself or refrain from clicking them :)
2013-03-08T15:30:08 <+Steffanx> No, it's your app :P
2013-03-08T15:30:34 < zyp> isn't this what open sores is about? :)
2013-03-08T15:30:36 <+dekar> It's open source
2013-03-08T15:30:42 <+Steffanx> sores
2013-03-08T15:30:48 <+dekar> I only fix the stuff I care about
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2013-03-08T15:32:07 <+Steffanx> What you use it for btw?
2013-03-08T15:32:15  * Laurenceb pricks his sores
2013-03-08T15:32:17 <+Steffanx> Listen to FM radio stations? :)
2013-03-08T15:32:41 < Laurenceb> git remove-juice-from sores
2013-03-08T15:34:08 <+dekar> Haven't used it in quite a while, but last time I was rather listening to AM HF stuff
2013-03-08T15:42:30 <+Steffanx> Any idea why it crashes when you try to record?
2013-03-08T15:44:13 < zyp> you're not recording good enough
2013-03-08T15:45:04 <+Steffanx> Whatever
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2013-03-08T16:48:34 <+dekar> Steffanx, dunno, not a feature I use
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2013-03-08T16:49:28 <+dekar> I assumed it would record fine, just the audio output gets messed up. At least that is what people told me :/
2013-03-08T16:51:59 <+Steffanx> Not for me, but .. yeah
2013-03-08T16:52:19 <+Steffanx> The crashes when it cant connect to the dongle are nice too :)
2013-03-08T16:52:49 <+Steffanx> At least you made a nice "reset at startup" :)
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2013-03-08T17:32:08 < Laurenceb> http://goatkcd.com/sfw
2013-03-08T17:32:10 < Laurenceb> epic win
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2013-03-08T17:46:25 < dongs> emeb_mac: beap
2013-03-08T17:48:14 < dongs> need bom for that bmp clone shit
2013-03-08T17:48:19 < dongs> im ordering digikey and need to stuff some crap in it
2013-03-08T17:52:20 < zyp> http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/embedded/bmp2/index.html
2013-03-08T17:54:28 < dongs> makes sense.
2013-03-08T17:56:05 < dongs> jesus that header is $.5
2013-03-08T17:56:07 < dongs> 3.5
2013-03-08T17:57:11 < zyp> which? the female one?
2013-03-08T17:57:28 < dongs> yeah
2013-03-08T17:58:30 < dongs> hm, do you have the shrouded version of that connector
2013-03-08T17:58:43 < dongs> his bom specifies the open one
2013-03-08T17:58:55 < dongs> the mini10 shit
2013-03-08T17:59:31 < zyp> you mean digikey number? hang on
2013-03-08T17:59:57 < dongs> yea
2013-03-08T18:00:07 < dongs> i think you used it on your bumblebee or whatever board
2013-03-08T18:00:45 < zyp> 609-4054-ND
2013-03-08T18:01:06 < zyp> I'm using it on everything
2013-03-08T18:03:13 < dongs> okyea thats the one
2013-03-08T18:03:49 < Laurenceb> wtf
2013-03-08T18:03:54 < Laurenceb> TRST not connected
2013-03-08T18:04:02 < Laurenceb> RST connected...
2013-03-08T18:04:21 < Laurenceb> on my board im using 20 pin header pin 3 as reset
2013-03-08T18:04:28 < Laurenceb> is that wrong?
2013-03-08T18:04:52 < karlp> huh, industrial design fail.  the hw dudes opened up a 3rd party meter to see how it worked, and closed it up again with the lid on backwards.
2013-03-08T18:05:01 < karlp> I wired it back up and turned teh power on...
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2013-03-08T18:05:21 < karlp> ... after following the labels on the lid
2013-03-08T18:05:52 < dongs> cool
2013-03-08T18:05:59 < zyp> Laurenceb, yes, it's wrong
2013-03-08T18:06:16 < zyp> pin 3 is jtrst
2013-03-08T18:06:17 < Laurenceb> i should use pin 9?
2013-03-08T18:06:22 < Laurenceb> which is what?
2013-03-08T18:06:34 < zyp> nrst is pin 15
2013-03-08T18:06:40 < Laurenceb> arg
2013-03-08T18:06:40 < gxti> karlp: sounds like a hw dudes fail to ome
2013-03-08T18:06:42 < zyp> if we're talking 20pin
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2013-03-08T18:06:45 < Laurenceb> yes
2013-03-08T18:06:55 < zyp> jtrst is just jtag reset, nothing really uses it
2013-03-08T18:07:05 < zyp> nrst is system reset, which should be on pin 15
2013-03-08T18:07:18 < zyp> otherwise you'll just get weird behavior
2013-03-08T18:07:40 < Laurenceb> i see
2013-03-08T18:07:41 < emeb_mac> dongs: beep
2013-03-08T18:08:08 < Laurenceb> i see]
2013-03-08T18:08:24 < emeb_mac> dongs: http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/embedded/bmp2/bom.xls
2013-03-08T18:09:13 < emeb_mac> ah - zyp got there first
2013-03-08T18:09:31 < Luggi09> emeb_mac: is there a possibility to get the board files for your stm32f303 breakout board ? or buy a pcb?
2013-03-08T18:12:38 < dongs> ya
2013-03-08T18:12:54 < dongs> emeb_mac: zyp handled it yea
2013-03-08T18:13:38 < dirty_d2> hmm, not sure if i should buy a new ESC or just replace 6 fets
2013-03-08T18:13:47 < emeb_mac> Luggi09: I'll stick the gerbers up on that site in a bit.
2013-03-08T18:14:18 < Luggi09> cool, thanks
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2013-03-08T18:38:16 < karlp> gxti: yeah, that too, but it shouldn't really be possible to put it back together backwards either.
2013-03-08T18:43:25 < dirty_d> what the hell is the Idsm current rating on a mosfet?
2013-03-08T18:43:35 < dirty_d> Id is 70A, Idsm is 22A
2013-03-08T18:44:02 < dirty_d> both are described as continuous drain current
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2013-03-08T19:05:38 < jpa-> dirty_d: i think it has something to do with thermal limits
2013-03-08T19:07:55 < dirty_d> oh
2013-03-08T19:10:41 < karlp> IDSM is the maximum drain current corresponding to PD and PDSM. (max)
2013-03-08T19:10:50 < karlp> first page of google results from "idsm mosfet"
2013-03-08T19:19:32 < dongs> what the fuck is up with ST site now
2013-03-08T19:25:07 < dirty_d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UVwt7oWC5fc#at=44
2013-03-08T19:25:14 < dirty_d> uhhh, whats with the little props in the middle
2013-03-08T19:25:41 < Erlkoenig> i dont see no beer
2013-03-08T19:26:24 < Laurenceb> lolz
2013-03-08T19:26:29 < Laurenceb> epicness
2013-03-08T19:27:09 < Laurenceb> why the puny motors in the middle ?!
2013-03-08T19:27:48 < dirty_d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JA1FSjQH3xY#!
2013-03-08T19:29:06 < karlp> why am I watching them cut off the water?
2013-03-08T19:30:16 < karlp> oh, because you linked me the boring part of the video
2013-03-08T19:31:12 < Laurenceb> nice
2013-03-08T19:31:18 < Laurenceb> a little unstable perhaps
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2013-03-08T19:40:40 < dirty_d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JA1FSjQH3xY#!
2013-03-08T19:40:44 < dirty_d> thats crazy
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2013-03-08T19:51:37 < Laurenceb> www.intechopen.com/download/pdf/36176
2013-03-08T19:51:44 < Laurenceb> this looks relevant to my interests
2013-03-08T19:52:28 < Laurenceb> i should build a pocket tester
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2013-03-08T20:34:36 < Robint91> hi all
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2013-03-08T20:35:52 < jpa-> hello
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2013-03-08T20:41:42 < emeb> hola
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2013-03-08T20:48:51 <+Steffanx> Welcome on hawai
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2013-03-08T21:20:36 < ds2> hmmm
2013-03-08T21:32:47 < emeb> what's new ds2?
2013-03-08T21:34:15 < ds2> just the same thing we do every night
2013-03-08T21:34:26 <+Steffanx> ok enough details
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2013-03-08T21:42:34 < emeb> try to take over the world!
2013-03-08T21:43:22 < ds2> you wouldn't happen to know if gate capacitance on a mosfet is a relatively consistant parameter would you? (or is it like beta on a bipolar?)
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2013-03-08T21:50:47 < Toneloc> ds2-I think it would be influenced by the width of the channel ?
2013-03-08T21:52:18 < emeb> ds2: it's a geometry thing, not so much a process parameter, so I'd guess it's pretty stable from device to device.
2013-03-08T21:53:31 < ds2> Toneloc: for a given device...a 2nXYZ
2013-03-08T21:53:53 < ds2> emeb: shouldn't tolerances of say the oxide layer be a significant factor?
2013-03-08T21:54:08 < ds2> or is that a well controlled parameter nowadays?
2013-03-08T21:54:28 < BJfreeman> http://www.irf.com/technical-info/appnotes/mosfet.pdf
2013-03-08T21:54:55 < emeb> ds2: they use thin oxide for the FET gates - that's highly controlled.
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2013-03-08T22:00:27 < ds2> that appnote suggests mosfets are more complicated in reality
2013-03-08T22:00:38 < ds2> time to shelve my project
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2013-03-08T22:04:13 < dirty_d> what flux do you guys use for smd work?
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2013-03-08T22:04:28 < dirty_d> ive been using rosin and its not very good
2013-03-08T22:05:06 < dirty_d> it gets really sticky after most of the alcohol boils off and it doesnt let small chips get pulled into place by the solder
2013-03-08T22:06:06 < gxti> i've been meaning to get a liquid bottle, flux pens have the right idea but they seem to break quickly
2013-03-08T22:06:43 < dirty_d> i have one i think its fake
2013-03-08T22:06:51 < dirty_d> its just alcohol in a pen as far as i can tell
2013-03-08T22:06:56 < gxti> also it seems to have disappeared rather quickly
2013-03-08T22:07:10 < gxti> first one lasted a year, this one is nearly empty after 2 months
2013-03-08T22:07:33 < gxti> but mostly it's annoying how the tip progressively turns from a nice chisel into a mushroom and keeps the mechanism from working fully :p
2013-03-08T22:07:48 < dirty_d> yea
2013-03-08T22:07:57 < dirty_d> http://dangerousprototypes.com/2012/02/02/workshop-video-battle-of-the-solder-flux/
2013-03-08T22:09:41 < gxti> i'm using the same pen he calls worthless at the start :P
2013-03-08T22:10:04 -!- jon1012 [~jon@foresight/developer/jon1012] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2013-03-08T22:10:30 < dirty_d> me too
2013-03-08T22:13:12 < GargantuaSauce> me three!
2013-03-08T22:15:46 < gxti> conical tip, what a n00b
2013-03-08T22:17:42 < dirty_d> i think the edsyn fl22 flux is the best
2013-03-08T22:17:53 < dirty_d> its stable to like 420F i think
2013-03-08T22:18:12 < dirty_d> so it stays liquid while soldering and doing dry up
2013-03-08T22:18:16 < dirty_d> doesnt*
2013-03-08T22:18:25 < dirty_d> i think its expensive though
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2013-03-08T22:30:40 <+Steffanx> Yankeelanders and their 'sodder'
2013-03-08T22:32:06 < gxti> soulder
2013-03-08T22:32:26 < gxti> sodder or soulder or neither or both
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2013-03-08T23:17:45 < dirty_d> just ordered that fanct clux and replacement mosfets and gate drivers
2013-03-08T23:17:49 < dirty_d> aint gonna keep me down!
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2013-03-08T23:38:27 < Tectu> anyone ever wrote a driver for the STMPE811?
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--- Day changed Sat Mar 09 2013
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2013-03-09T00:26:26 <+dekar> what kind of iron is the dangerous prototypes guy using? is there a hot air nozzle attached to the iron?
2013-03-09T00:29:31 <+Steffanx> I think it's for .. how you said that in english
2013-03-09T00:31:34 <+Steffanx> It 'sucks' up the smoke i think.
2013-03-09T00:32:08 <+Steffanx> So the lead doesn't come into your lungs :)
2013-03-09T00:32:46 <+Steffanx> And of course nice flux crap
2013-03-09T00:37:31 <+dekar> I think you aren't supposed to heat the solder enough for the lead to evaporate ;)
2013-03-09T00:38:08 < ds2> Mmmmm clouds of lead vapor
2013-03-09T00:39:17 < karlp> hrmm, this radio wakeup/sleep code isn't.... quite... right
2013-03-09T00:39:50 < karlp> doesn't always power up and doesn't always quite power down.
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2013-03-09T00:49:44 < karlp> oh no, just doesn't seem to catch the acks and sleep properly.
2013-03-09T00:49:48 < karlp> stupid rf.
2013-03-09T00:54:05 < gxti> it's the flux fumes you have to worry about, especially for leadfree solder
2013-03-09T00:56:16 < gxti> breathe it all day long and you'll get AIDS, and by AIDS i mean asthma
2013-03-09T00:58:17 <+Steffanx> dongs vocabulary
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2013-03-09T01:04:22 < karlp> hmm, no, not waking.
2013-03-09T01:04:25 < karlp> I need to read properly
2013-03-09T01:04:56 <+Steffanx> Perhaps you need some sleep yourself?
2013-03-09T01:05:31 < karlp> perhaps
2013-03-09T01:05:32 < karlp> long week
2013-03-09T01:05:39 < karlp> but finally got some time to work on my own project :)
2013-03-09T01:05:56 < karlp> 40mA continuous is far far too much for a battery powered wireless node :)
2013-03-09T01:06:18 < gxti> gps is alive, now to RTFM to figure out how to decode the protocol
2013-03-09T01:06:44 < karlp> want to at least get have the radio mostly off, that would be enough for tonight
2013-03-09T01:06:54 < karlp> then it's "mostly" just stm32 power reduction
2013-03-09T01:07:46 < karlp> bah, ignore the datasheet recommendations, works fine.
2013-03-09T01:08:02 < karlp> do the rf baseband reset it recommends after each wakeup, only sometimes wakes up.
2013-03-09T01:08:52 <+Steffanx> Which radio btw?
2013-03-09T01:09:23 < karlp> mrf24j40
2013-03-09T01:21:43 < karlp> cool, 40ma+ or so down to 6-7ma
2013-03-09T01:29:33 <+Steffanx> And thats with how many transmissions per second?
2013-03-09T01:32:03 < karlp> 0.3?
2013-03-09T01:32:04 < dirty_d> what the actual fuck? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses
2013-03-09T01:32:16 < karlp> I've only just started the actual power saving steps
2013-03-09T01:33:51 <+Steffanx> Stop visiting that website dirty_d
2013-03-09T01:34:19 < dirty_d> Steffanx, thats the first time ive gone there, lol
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2013-03-09T01:34:56 <+Steffanx> Sure? You've been here for months and never visited kickstarter.com before?! :S
2013-03-09T01:35:12 < dirty_d> Steffanx, ive folloed links sent to here
2013-03-09T01:35:15 < dirty_d> nut not gone myself
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2013-03-09T01:35:56 < dirty_d> how does that even work?
2013-03-09T01:36:10 < dirty_d> seems unhealthy if its real
2013-03-09T01:37:24 < gxti> welcome to ##makefunofkickstarters
2013-03-09T01:37:46 <+Steffanx> dongs and you are not there gxti ?
2013-03-09T01:39:14 < dirty_d> is that actually real?
2013-03-09T01:39:26 < gxti> what, the glowing?
2013-03-09T01:39:40 < dirty_d> i could see cfls being lit by a magnetic field ot something
2013-03-09T01:39:42 < dirty_d> but LEDs?
2013-03-09T01:39:53 < dirty_d> he stuck led christmas lights up to it and they turned on
2013-03-09T01:40:52 < qyx_> a question here.. why isnt qam modulation used in these lower freq bands? (434MHz, 868MHz..)
2013-03-09T01:41:03 < qyx_> i can't see any chips/modules available
2013-03-09T01:41:49 <+Steffanx> ha but baird is around :)
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2013-03-09T01:59:39 < dongs> hm?
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2013-03-09T02:01:59 < dongs> qyx_: could i t be due to the channel width
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2013-03-09T02:42:06 < dirty_d> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1106670630/mojo-digital-design-for-the-hobbyist?ref=category
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2013-03-09T03:05:56 <+dekar> dirty_d, aren't there like a ton of fpga boards already? I don't get the point
2013-03-09T03:06:34 < dirty_d> i guess
2013-03-09T03:06:43 < dirty_d> arent most of them really expensive?
2013-03-09T03:07:05 < emeb> not really
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2013-03-09T03:07:10 <+dekar> the one all those xbox people used to hack their console was about 30usd iirc
2013-03-09T03:07:28 < emeb> you can get a S6 devboard from Avnet with USB & other goodies for not much more than that mojo thing.
2013-03-09T03:10:35 < dirty_d> hmm
2013-03-09T03:15:50 < dirty_d> id like to learn how to program an fpga
2013-03-09T03:16:00 < dirty_d> seems pretty damn cool
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2013-03-09T03:35:21 < emeb> It's pretty handy to know how to use 'em. Coding HDL is pretty different from software tho - takes a different mindset.
2013-03-09T03:44:42 < dirty_d> oh yea i can tell
2013-03-09T03:44:56 < dirty_d> are verilog and vhdl both good?
2013-03-09T03:47:23 < gxti> yes, vhdl is ugly but more flexible
2013-03-09T03:48:15 < gxti> they both synthesize to a netlist though it's just a matter of how you interact with the hdl
2013-03-09T03:49:14 < dirty_d> more flexible how?
2013-03-09T03:49:22 < dirty_d> would you say one is easier to start out with?
2013-03-09T03:49:30 < gxti> verilog is easier to start with.
2013-03-09T03:51:04 < dirty_d> ok
2013-03-09T03:52:52 < ds2> how much power does one of those things burn thesedays?
2013-03-09T03:53:05 < dongs> enough to make buttcoin mining useless
2013-03-09T03:53:16 < gxti> totally depends on what you do with it. it's not that bad, but obviously worse than an equivalent ASIC
2013-03-09T03:54:27 < ds2> can they be setup to burn 0 power when they are not switching?
2013-03-09T03:54:38 < gxti> nothing burns 0 power :P
2013-03-09T03:54:44 < ds2> those M3 hardcore w/FPGA fabric around them look interesting
2013-03-09T03:54:50 < ds2> well... close to 0
2013-03-09T03:55:12 < gxti> standard FPGAs aren't exactly battery friendly but a FPGA doing a specific thing will use less power than a CPU doing the same thing for many cases.
2013-03-09T03:55:28 < ds2> *nod*
2013-03-09T03:55:39 < gxti> there are also vendors specifically doing low-power FPGAs but as soon as you leave the xilinx/altera playpen things get much harder for an individual to work with.
2013-03-09T03:55:43 < ds2> just trying to figure out if the CPU is idle, can a FPGA use less power then that
2013-03-09T03:57:00 < dirty_d> what the hell is bitcoin mining?
2013-03-09T03:57:16 < gxti> JFGI
2013-03-09T03:57:34 < gxti> or don't, and do something more productive instead like jerk off
2013-03-09T03:58:45 < GargantuaSauce> or both
2013-03-09T03:58:55 < GargantuaSauce> some of those GPU clusters are pretty arousing
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2013-03-09T04:01:15 < gxti> maybe if it weren't being used as extremely expensive dummy loads
2013-03-09T04:01:26 < gxti> even seti@home would be more productive
2013-03-09T04:03:14 < GargantuaSauce> they're perfectly respectable space heaters
2013-03-09T04:04:22 < dirty_d> gxti, i took your advice
2013-03-09T04:04:26 < dirty_d> your first advice
2013-03-09T04:04:37 < dirty_d> conclusion: I've woken up in the future
2013-03-09T04:04:49 < gxti> that's one interpretation
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2013-03-09T04:18:24 < emeb> "the future is here - it's just not evenly distributed"
2013-03-09T04:19:33 < dirty_d> jeez, this ise sofrware is huge
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2013-03-09T04:21:24 < qyx_> tell me about that
2013-03-09T04:21:48 < qyx_> the whole system with all software had 5GB and that damn ise required 19GB
2013-03-09T04:22:08 < qyx_> i had to resize lvm&fs for it
2013-03-09T04:22:57 < qyx_> it effectivelly wastes 1/3 of my ssd space
2013-03-09T04:23:09 < dirty_d> ouch, i have an ssd too
2013-03-09T04:23:25 < dirty_d> and its already split with windows
2013-03-09T04:24:03 < dirty_d> actually, i have a big hdd too, ill just stick it there
2013-03-09T04:30:07 < dongs> lol, lunix on ssd
2013-03-09T04:30:11 < dongs> whats the point???????????
2013-03-09T04:30:17 < emeb> why not?
2013-03-09T04:30:37 < qyx_> whats te point in this question?
2013-03-09T04:30:54 < gxti> the point is dongs wants to talk about linux again
2013-03-09T04:31:01 < gxti> he can't resist
2013-03-09T04:34:48 < qyx_> i have 659 power-on days on this ssd without single issue
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2013-03-09T04:59:50 < baird> It's a pity that the Usenet era didn't have SSDs-- newsservers were/are majorily I/O-bound, and SSDs rock hard in those :) .. (The startup active file renumbering used to take ~45 seconds, now only ~1..)
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2013-03-09T05:04:13 < dongs> http://herokuclassaction.com/index.php lol web 2.o rage
2013-03-09T05:04:43 < R2COM> post something more fun
2013-03-09T05:06:15 < dongs> enraged ruby on fales developers aren't fun?
2013-03-09T05:06:25 < R2COM> no
2013-03-09T05:06:29 < baird> Fuck Google making the Nexus10 a GoogPlay exclusive. >:(
2013-03-09T05:06:59 < R2COM> post something about missiles, or I dont know, something fun
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2013-03-09T05:12:49 < dongs> lol dixus10
2013-03-09T05:12:50 < dongs> how useless
2013-03-09T05:12:57 < R2COM> whats that
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2013-03-09T05:22:45 < baird> No microsd, but 2560x1600 screen. Do want. I'll bodge something up for storage (a RPi with a wireless dongle in adhoc mode..)
2013-03-09T05:23:36 < baird> Duct-taping a RPi ModelA onto a DongsMonitor did occur to me..
2013-03-09T05:24:54 < baird> What's the power requirements for that LCD panel project?
2013-03-09T05:40:40 < dongs>  apparently its ~900mA @ 5V
2013-03-09T05:41:13 < GargantuaSauce> achievement unlocked!
2013-03-09T05:41:22  * GargantuaSauce just blew up his first f4 disco
2013-03-09T05:44:22 < baird> dongs: you've got them taking a single 5vdc supply then, I take it? I'm asking to gauge the suitability of using them from a bike battery..
2013-03-09T05:44:53 -!- BJfreeman [~bjfree@152.sub-75-196-6.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: had a good time]
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2013-03-09T05:47:02 < gxti> dongs: china gps is as advertised, bricks were shat
2013-03-09T05:47:45 < gxti> they also sent the new revision as i asked
2013-03-09T05:57:52 < dongs> cool
2013-03-09T05:58:14 < dongs> baird: yes, USB power, vreg max 5.5V, both linear and switcher
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2013-03-09T06:02:32 < dongs> http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/special-products/electrical-smoke-re-concentrator.html
2013-03-09T06:02:44 < dongs> this must be a bairdshop
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2013-03-09T06:18:51 < zippe> Reminds me, I need to check out the transit gear
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2013-03-09T07:42:52 < gxti> the timing performance on this NEO-6M is excellent. no "position hold" like the 6T would have, but perfect for NTP.
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2013-03-09T09:25:40 < jpa-> gxti: what do you use those NTP servers for?
2013-03-09T09:35:18 < dongs> he probably uses lunix
2013-03-09T09:35:23 < dongs> on windows, I just have a checkbox
2013-03-09T09:35:27 < dongs> 'sync time with some shit'
2013-03-09T09:35:32 < dongs> i check it, enter jp.pool.ntp.org, victory.
2013-03-09T09:35:59 < jpa-> dongs: and you get +-2 second accuracy :)
2013-03-09T09:36:08 < jpa-> windows ntp sucks, really
2013-03-09T09:36:11 < dongs> i dont think i give a shit about that
2013-03-09T09:36:32 < jpa-> yeah, which is why i'm interested why gxti gives a shit :P
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2013-03-09T09:43:38 < baird> Some mail server spam miltering can be anal about timestamps. "No /real/ mail server would be off by more than a minute.. must be another windows spam zombie."
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2013-03-09T09:46:18 < baird> Awesomeness: http://archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3Atosec&sort=-publicdate  (TOSEC on archive.org) .. Got to wonder how long that'll last before getting take-down notices, particularly for the Apple2 system images.
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2013-03-09T10:12:06 < dongs> attn Laurenceb https://youtube.com/watch?v=rpBnurznFio
2013-03-09T10:12:49 < R2COM> post more stuff
2013-03-09T10:12:55 < R2COM> your stuff rocks dongs come on
2013-03-09T10:13:13 < R2COM> or actually, the way you comment things
2013-03-09T10:30:49 < dongs> that dude could have made it so much better if he didnt use tarduino
2013-03-09T10:49:48 < dongs> https://youtube.com/watch?v=sZfQsktr5sg this similarly annoying shit plays here as well, I wonder if frequency is similar.
2013-03-09T10:50:00 < dongs> gonna leave my sdr running at 69.xxx mhz and see if I find anything
2013-03-09T10:50:11 < dongs> i wonder what the modem-like shit at start is
2013-03-09T10:50:21 < dongs> they're authenticating the broadcast so random dicks cant take it over?
2013-03-09T10:52:52 < R2COM> haha
2013-03-09T10:53:15 < dongs> if  you google for the name of this shit in japanese
2013-03-09T10:53:25 < dongs> 1st suggestion after the acutal word is "fucking annoying shut up please"
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2013-03-09T11:00:43 < dongs> hahaha!
2013-03-09T11:00:45 < dongs> found
2013-03-09T11:01:38 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/0EiYep1.png
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2013-03-09T11:02:19  * jpa- cuts MrMobius in half
2013-03-09T11:02:25 < dongs> 6pm alarm
2013-03-09T11:02:25 < jpa-> muahaha now you have two sides!
2013-03-09T11:03:19 < R2COM> looks like some amateur radio spectrum program or something like that
2013-03-09T11:04:14 < R2COM> heh 69MHz? heh...
2013-03-09T11:06:55 < dongs> yeah i think i caugh hte 6pm chime from nearby town
2013-03-09T11:07:00 < dongs> they dont play it here at 6 on weekend
2013-03-09T11:10:05 < dongs> http://pbx.mine.nu/annoy.mp4
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2013-03-09T13:36:22 < Robint91> hi all
2013-03-09T13:36:24 < Robint91> Exynos 5250 is available as FCFBGA Single Chip Package (SCP), which has a 0.45 mm ball pitch. Package on
2013-03-09T13:36:24 < Robint91> Package (PoP) is also available with 0.4 mm ball pitch.
2013-03-09T13:36:26 < Robint91> sigh
2013-03-09T13:36:36 < dongs> lol
2013-03-09T13:37:58 < Robint91> even with a good pick and place
2013-03-09T13:38:06 < Robint91> this is horror
2013-03-09T13:38:54 < Robint91> holy http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/12/26/135-armbrix-zero-exynos-5-development-board-is-now-available-for-pre-order/
2013-03-09T13:40:07 < dongs> armbrix has been shat
2013-03-09T13:41:15 < R2COM> doestn look as horror to me
2013-03-09T13:41:55 < Robint91> R2COM, HDI design are horror
2013-03-09T13:41:58 < Robint91> to my wallet
2013-03-09T13:42:00 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2013-03-09T13:42:25 < dongs> high density blogging
2013-03-09T13:42:37 <+Steffanx> Sure? tarduino.cc is still empty
2013-03-09T13:42:43 < dongs> haha
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2013-03-09T13:44:56 < R2COM> what about this: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=hyper%20x%20processor&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coherentlogix.com%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_docman%26task%3Ddoc_download%26gid%3D10%26Itemid%3D77&ei=jyA7UbycN8rQyAHkvIBw&usg=AFQjCNGJVwHEFbK1XWwxSP_LDRFZwfb3LA&bvm=bv.43287494,d.aWc
2013-03-09T13:45:24 < dongs> cool link bro
2013-03-09T13:45:43 < dongs> please install "don't track me google 3.5" chrome extension
2013-03-09T13:47:02 < R2COM> I was thinking once about asking money for this, but then decided, that I can live without it...
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2013-03-09T13:59:40 < baird> Anyone recogize the type of connector here? http://i.imgur.com/lk3M7y0.jpg
2013-03-09T14:00:37 <+Steffanx> Looks old
2013-03-09T14:00:46 <+Steffanx> So, no
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2013-03-09T14:22:31 < dongs> older than #bsd
2013-03-09T14:24:08 < qyx_> baird: i remember i had some of these to play with  when i was young :>
2013-03-09T14:24:24 <+Steffanx> Aren't you still young?
2013-03-09T14:25:06 < qyx_> i mean around 10
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2013-03-09T14:36:09 < dongs> Laurenceb_: < dongs> attn Laurenceb https://youtube.com/watch?v=rpBnurznFio
2013-03-09T14:36:14 < dongs> gonna assume youve seen this already
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2013-03-09T14:39:07 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-09T14:39:15 < Laurenceb_> that guys been on the go since about 2005
2013-03-09T14:39:21 < Laurenceb_> assumed he'd never make anything
2013-03-09T14:39:29 <+Steffanx> fail Laurenceb_
2013-03-09T14:39:49 < Laurenceb_> yes its still fail - seems to be uncontrolled until he takes control from the ground
2013-03-09T14:40:05 <+Steffanx> No i mean, you assuming he'd never make anything
2013-03-09T14:40:18 < Laurenceb_> well he didnt
2013-03-09T14:40:25 <+Steffanx> Yes he did
2013-03-09T14:40:25 < Laurenceb_> for years and years and years and years
2013-03-09T14:40:59 <+Steffanx> For how long you've been working on your fancy phd thingy now? :P
2013-03-09T14:41:18 < Laurenceb_> 2 years
2013-03-09T14:43:13 <+Steffanx> He just seems to be a little unlucky.. i bet he will have more luck when he tries again
2013-03-09T14:44:40 < Laurenceb_> in b4 he crashes in air force base
2013-03-09T14:45:02 <+Steffanx> Everything is better than getting your arm crushed by some weird machine
2013-03-09T14:52:19 < MrMobius> let your 8051 get crushed by the weird machine
2013-03-09T14:52:24 < MrMobius> save all the arms...
2013-03-09T14:52:26 < MrMobius> Xo
2013-03-09T14:56:06 < karlp> GargantuaSauce: you can use this to fix your f4: http://www.aerostich.com/a-to-b-utilities/special-products/electrical-smoke-re-concentrator.html
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2013-03-09T15:01:40 < qyx_> lol
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2013-03-09T15:09:31 <+Steffanx> You really have to improve your dongs-dictionary Laurenceb_
2013-03-09T15:09:56 < Laurenceb_> english to dongs translator :P
2013-03-09T15:10:01 <+Steffanx> "retweeting" means: pasting a useless link someone posted in another channel
2013-03-09T15:11:21 < Tectu> dongs, got that BMP2?
2013-03-09T15:12:03 < dongs> Tectu: found pcbs and ordered parts for 3.
2013-03-09T15:12:09 < dongs> well, parts I didnt have.
2013-03-09T15:12:14 < dongs> which is t he dumb button and crystal.
2013-03-09T15:12:39 < Tectu> dongs, you still didn't told me how much I have to pay
2013-03-09T15:12:51 < Tectu> I hope not more than the original BMP? :D
2013-03-09T15:13:01 < Tectu> dongs, maybe I'll take two :P
2013-03-09T15:13:39 < dongs> rofl yeah isnt original like $100
2013-03-09T15:13:42 < dongs> its not gonna be that.
2013-03-09T15:13:48 < Tectu> dongs, it's 60$, no?
2013-03-09T15:13:50 <+Steffanx> 70
2013-03-09T15:14:01 < Tectu> Steffanx, thanks, you're being helpful
2013-03-09T15:14:15 <+Steffanx> stfu
2013-03-09T15:14:39 < Tectu> naaa
2013-03-09T15:16:24 < Tectu> dongs, so, 10$ okay?
2013-03-09T15:16:32 <+Steffanx> lol
2013-03-09T15:16:34 < Tectu> including 48h. domestic shippment
2013-03-09T15:16:48 < dongs> for $10 i'll take a shit on them + youtube it
2013-03-09T15:16:52 <+Steffanx> umad?
2013-03-09T15:17:04 < Tectu> dongs, that would be worth it
2013-03-09T15:18:23 <+Steffanx> ill donate 5$
2013-03-09T15:18:41 < Tectu> dongs, no, but it's like 30$ or what?
2013-03-09T15:18:51 < Tectu> not sure about chinese shit
2013-03-09T15:21:05 < dongs> Tectu: will figure it out once parts are here monday and i had time to put it together.
2013-03-09T15:21:30 < Tectu> dongs, you'll program it as well, right?
2013-03-09T15:21:37 < Tectu> and give it a quick test
2013-03-09T15:21:50 < dongs> i dunno about "test", i dont have any lunix trash that would use it
2013-03-09T15:21:54 < dongs> but I will certainly program it.
2013-03-09T15:22:03 < dongs> i presume it works since emeb made the shit
2013-03-09T15:22:10 < dongs> and I think zyp also assembled one
2013-03-09T15:22:29 <+Steffanx> We are here tu support you Tectu
2013-03-09T15:23:09 < Tectu> I thank you very much
2013-03-09T15:23:25 < Tectu> dongs, I hope you can provide some better shipping than the 4 weeks shit ebay ?
2013-03-09T15:23:27 < Tectu> e
2013-03-09T15:23:29 < Tectu> ebay shit*
2013-03-09T15:23:50 <+Steffanx> i receive my ebay shit after a week sometimes..
2013-03-09T15:24:52 < dongs> i forget what shitty locale are you in?
2013-03-09T15:24:54 < dongs> soviet russia?
2013-03-09T15:27:11 < Tectu> dongs, close enough - Switzerland
2013-03-09T15:28:20 < dongs> not kawaii enough location
2013-03-09T15:28:50 <+Steffanx> you dont have an office there?
2013-03-09T15:29:15 < Tectu> is that question for dongs or me?
2013-03-09T15:29:51 <+Steffanx> him
2013-03-09T15:31:20 < Tectu> Steffanx, where do you live? I never get my ebay stuff before 3 to 4 weeks
2013-03-09T15:31:37 <+Steffanx> dutchland
2013-03-09T15:32:16 < Tectu> I remembör
2013-03-09T15:32:18 < dongs> speaking of fail i keep forgetting to watch skyfall
2013-03-09T15:32:39 < Laurenceb_> meanwhile in japland
2013-03-09T15:32:40 < Laurenceb_> http://tinyurl.com/bqfl72l
2013-03-09T15:32:44 < Tectu> Steffanx, you might want to send me over some stroopwafels?
2013-03-09T15:32:51 <+Steffanx> lol
2013-03-09T15:33:03 <+Steffanx> dongs, only when you like james bond crap..
2013-03-09T15:33:08 < dongs> Laurenceb_: mega old
2013-03-09T15:33:14 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, is that confortable?
2013-03-09T15:33:27 < dongs> no but its kawaii
2013-03-09T15:33:32 < Laurenceb_> lol Tectu
2013-03-09T15:34:17 < Tectu> dongs, you're from japan, not china, right?
2013-03-09T15:34:25 < dongs> yea...
2013-03-09T15:34:28 < dongs> lolvhina
2013-03-09T15:34:29 <+Steffanx> Tectu was that question like " Laurenceb_ did you try it?"?
2013-03-09T15:35:39 < Tectu> Steffanx, no, that would be obsolete
2013-03-09T15:35:53 < Tectu> wait, that was not the word I was searching for
2013-03-09T15:36:00 < Tectu> I mean something like "we all know he did - no need to ask"
2013-03-09T15:37:33 < dongs> obvious.
2013-03-09T15:37:35 < dongs> i think.
2013-03-09T15:38:59 <+Steffanx> uuuh
2013-03-09T15:39:18 < baird> Australian road conditions: http://scootercommunity.com.au/forums/storage/5/146524/monogan.jpg (my bike)
2013-03-09T15:39:37 < Tectu> seems legit
2013-03-09T15:41:13 <+Steffanx> I wonder if baird is known as the "weird guy of the town"
2013-03-09T15:41:26 < baird> 4chan phred: http://boards.4chan.org/n/res/455348
2013-03-09T15:42:15 < baird> Was attacked by a BAT
2013-03-09T15:42:21 < qyx_> that road seems to be quite usable compared to ours after this winter
2013-03-09T15:42:43 <+Steffanx> and that is where qyx_ ?
2013-03-09T15:43:33 < Laurenceb_> Steffanx: 4chan is his image host
2013-03-09T15:43:42 < Laurenceb_> so your question is obvious
2013-03-09T15:44:08 < dongs> Because this is the massive faggot that always posts his motorcycle on /n/ to prove he can do the same kind of touring as a touring cyclist, but without the pedaling.
2013-03-09T15:44:12 < dongs> hahaha
2013-03-09T15:44:42 < baird> yup
2013-03-09T15:45:12 <+Steffanx> Why you guys are always so nice for others?
2013-03-09T15:45:14 < baird> I'm 42. Fuck pedaling.
2013-03-09T15:46:24 < baird> No qt female German backpackers at all on this last trip. :(
2013-03-09T15:48:15 < Tectu> baird, I was about to ask if that's a honda, but I didn't had the balls to
2013-03-09T15:54:40 < baird> Something cool about the Bridle Track was all the ripe nectarines and watermelon along the way-- 160 years of campers spitting fruit seeds everywhere. They were all in perfect condition for eating (no grubs, etc.)
2013-03-09T15:55:49 < Tectu> o0
2013-03-09T15:55:54 < dongs> that sounds awesome
2013-03-09T15:59:41 < baird> http://i.imgur.com/x1NnHMW.jpg
2013-03-09T16:00:24 < dongs> def looks edible
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2013-03-09T16:02:11 < baird> Were most awesome-- they'd ripened naturally and never been in cold storage like supermarket fruit.
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2013-03-09T16:05:05 < baird> The watermelon where like Japan-sized..
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2013-03-09T16:10:23 < karlp> dongs: iceland car for you: http://tweak.net.au/pics2/2013/March/miscstream/web_2013_03_01-09_16_15--img_5393_jfr.jpg
2013-03-09T16:14:09 < Tectu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7VTjuPx_s    :(
2013-03-09T16:16:03 < dongs> so kawaii
2013-03-09T16:16:14 < dongs> mjpeg is easy though
2013-03-09T16:16:18 < dongs> its all keyframes
2013-03-09T16:16:22 < dongs> just decompress jpeg -> dump
2013-03-09T16:17:31 < Tectu> decompress jpeg not easy?
2013-03-09T16:17:54 < Tectu> dongs, please tell me what the hell is that videoclip from 3:35
2013-03-09T16:18:17 < dongs> closd already.
2013-03-09T16:18:23 < Tectu> reopen
2013-03-09T16:19:13 < dongs> Tectu: rofl
2013-03-09T16:19:14 < dongs> no idea
2013-03-09T16:19:19 < dongs> retweeting
2013-03-09T16:21:02 < Laurenceb_> rofl
2013-03-09T16:21:04 < Laurenceb_> lion king
2013-03-09T16:21:16 < dongs> as Laurenceb_ would say, what the actual fuck
2013-03-09T16:21:26 < Laurenceb_> shit wtf
2013-03-09T16:21:30 < Laurenceb_> its actually decent
2013-03-09T16:21:33 < Laurenceb_> how the hell...
2013-03-09T16:22:53 < Laurenceb_> probably better video than early netbooks
2013-03-09T16:24:19 < dongs> now youre trolling
2013-03-09T16:24:30 < Laurenceb_> heh
2013-03-09T16:24:44 < dongs> maybe trueif:
2013-03-09T16:24:49 < Laurenceb_> maybe its a toll video
2013-03-09T16:24:51 < dongs>  < Laurenceb_> probably better video than early netbooks running lunis
2013-03-09T16:24:59 < Laurenceb_> raw video sent over usb
2013-03-09T16:25:02 < dongs> pfft
2013-03-09T16:25:15 < dongs> 320x240 jpeg is not THAT hard to decompress right?
2013-03-09T16:25:30 < Laurenceb_> i guess not
2013-03-09T16:26:19 < baird> 320x240 mpeg is just about doable on a 100MHz system
2013-03-09T16:26:56 < qyx_> rofl
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2013-03-09T16:27:03 < baird> More camping pix posted on 4chan..
2013-03-09T16:27:30 -!- _BJFreeman is now known as BJfreeman
2013-03-09T16:28:26 < Laurenceb_> not going to 4chan
2013-03-09T16:28:37 < Laurenceb_> im at my mums house....
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2013-03-09T16:30:04 < Tectu> wikipedia shows boobs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Three_women_posing_in_grease_and_ropes.jpg
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2013-03-09T16:39:37 < Tectu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Seoi9sNENHE <3
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2013-03-09T16:48:54 < Laurenceb_> Tectu at his pc:  http://addberbe.hu/templates/ja_zeolite/images/ectoplasm-south-park-i3.jpg
2013-03-09T16:49:08 < Tectu> naa
2013-03-09T16:49:14 < dongs> so treu
2013-03-09T16:49:28 < Tectu> I take great care to keep my keyboard clean and not-sticky
2013-03-09T16:49:35 < Tectu> I hate diry keyboards
2013-03-09T16:49:36 < dongs> tectu faps outside
2013-03-09T16:49:47 < Tectu> it happened from time to time
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2013-03-09T16:53:05 < Laurenceb_> public fapper
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2013-03-09T16:58:22 < dongs> emeb missed all the public fapping.
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2013-03-09T17:06:09 < dirty_d> sweet, ise is done downloading
2013-03-09T17:07:02 < dirty_d> 15GB, thats insane
2013-03-09T17:07:19 < dirty_d> how is that even possible
2013-03-09T17:07:53 < dirty_d> does this software use some kinda massive on disk lookup table for stuff?
2013-03-09T17:09:19 < Tectu> dirty_d, well, the webbench of altera is 5GB
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2013-03-09T17:16:51 < dirty_d> Tectu, thats the name of their software?
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2013-03-09T17:18:11 < Tectu> dirty_d, with ISE, you mean the Xilinx IDE thing, right?
2013-03-09T17:18:19 < Tectu> dirty_d, and no, the altera toolchain is called Quartus II
2013-03-09T17:18:26 < Tectu> but the webbench is the suite or something like that
2013-03-09T17:18:44 < dirty_d> yea the xilinx ide
2013-03-09T17:18:46 < dirty_d> oh
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2013-03-09T17:19:01 < Tectu> It's 4.5GB for Linux with all libraries
2013-03-09T17:19:11 < Tectu> and it actually is 64-bit while ISE is only 32, right?
2013-03-09T17:19:28 < qyx_> altera has linux something?
2013-03-09T17:20:01 < Tectu> yes
2013-03-09T17:20:06 < Tectu> native linux support, it works VERY well
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2013-03-09T17:20:20 < Tectu> I cannot tell any difference between running it on windows or linux, and I have worked with both about the same amount
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2013-03-09T17:36:42 < dirty_d> i cant figure out how the hell to get this WebPack license for ise
2013-03-09T17:36:49 < dirty_d> the webpage just doesnt do anything
2013-03-09T17:36:53 < dirty_d> the list is empty
2013-03-09T17:38:23 < dongs> https://youtube.com/watch?v=0dfZ9BXaNyE attn Laurenceb__
2013-03-09T17:46:46 < qyx_> dirty_d: you dont need to do anything, just select webpack during installation
2013-03-09T17:47:39 < dirty_d> i can just close the "accuire a license" dialog box?
2013-03-09T17:48:32 < qyx_> wat
2013-03-09T17:48:35 < qyx_> i dont remember that
2013-03-09T17:48:38 < Tectu> did anyone ever use the I2C1 on the F4 discovery?
2013-03-09T17:50:25 < dirty_d> no, just F3
2013-03-09T17:59:11 < dirty_d> hmm, the license program is working now, but i have no idea what to do
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2013-03-09T18:01:22 < dirty_d> what fpga should i get? spartan 6?
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2013-03-09T18:17:38 <+Steffanx> A story about Laurenceb__ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75wqKwS0-Q8
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2013-03-09T18:17:42 <+Steffanx> ( old i know )
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2013-03-09T18:24:15 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb__ the interwebz is your way of life and you don't have it under control?!
2013-03-09T18:30:22 < Robint91> dirty_d, spartan 6 ftw
2013-03-09T18:30:43 < dirty_d> Robint91, is there a cheap dev board?
2013-03-09T18:31:42 < Robint91> dirty_d, define cheap?
2013-03-09T18:33:43 < Robint91> http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,400,897&Prod=NEXYS3
2013-03-09T18:33:58 <+Steffanx> 199$ is not cheap :)
2013-03-09T18:34:13 < Robint91> http://papilio.cc/index.php?n=Papilio.PapilioPro
2013-03-09T18:37:43 < dirty_d> Robint91, the lower end actual chips are around $15
2013-03-09T18:37:59 < dirty_d> so, relative to that
2013-03-09T18:38:03 < dirty_d> $50 is reasonable
2013-03-09T18:40:34 < Robint91> mhh
2013-03-09T18:41:07 < qyx_> i got my board from ebay for 35$
2013-03-09T18:41:52 < qyx_> xc3s200 or something like htat
2013-03-09T18:44:09 < emeb_mac> what's this about public fapping?
2013-03-09T18:47:25 < emeb_mac> i've been using xilinx spartan 3A for my projects for way too long. Need to get with the times.
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2013-03-09T19:03:36 < Laurenceb__> emeb_mac: Tectu admitted to it
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2013-03-09T22:36:52 < Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPyE29ABmoA
2013-03-09T22:36:58 < Laurenceb_> omfg that pcb is horrifying
2013-03-09T22:38:57 <+Steffanx> Which pcb?
2013-03-09T22:38:59 <+Steffanx> time?
2013-03-09T22:40:09 < Laurenceb_> 30:00
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2013-03-09T22:43:35 <+Steffanx> The old one is better organized :D
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--- Day changed Sun Mar 10 2013
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2013-03-10T00:07:57 < Robint91> Laurenceb_, why?
2013-03-10T00:13:57 < Laurenceb_> well i guess for the time
2013-03-10T00:14:16 < Laurenceb_> nowadays i dont see why it couldnt be done with about 2 ICs
2013-03-10T00:14:24 < Laurenceb_> its not that old...
2013-03-10T00:14:55 < Laurenceb_> you could probably do it with an stm32 :P
2013-03-10T00:21:10 < Laurenceb_> http://hackaday.com/2012/09/03/an-stm32-processor-powers-this-pc/
2013-03-10T00:21:23 < Laurenceb_> oh wait he used parallax
2013-03-10T00:21:25 < Laurenceb_> wtf
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2013-03-10T00:34:16 <+Steffanx> parallax Laurenceb_ ?
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2013-03-10T01:42:39 < dongs> ya useless propeller shit
2013-03-10T01:43:19 < gxti> moolticore
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2013-03-10T01:56:29 <+Steffanx> I don't see the parallax, but it maybe the time
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2013-03-10T08:11:52 < emeb_mac> so quiet.
2013-03-10T08:12:05 < emeb_mac> daylight savings time scared everyone away?
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2013-03-10T12:17:41 < Robint91> hi all
2013-03-10T12:17:59 < Robint91> has someone tried to run a 8051 emulator on a cortex m3?
2013-03-10T12:18:34 < jpa-> "why?"
2013-03-10T12:19:26 < Robint91> jpa-, because we can?
2013-03-10T12:20:28 < jpa-> why 8051?
2013-03-10T12:20:42 < Robint91> sdcc
2013-03-10T12:21:20 < jpa-> uh? so you can compile C code using inferior compiler and run it slower?
2013-03-10T12:21:48 < jpa-> i could understand some one doing an emulator for C64 or other "classic computer", but 8051..
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2013-03-10T12:23:14 < Robint91> jpa-, A) to learn how to write emulators B) too see how much code space is needed to emulate a 8051 fully
2013-03-10T12:23:28 < Robint91> jpa-, it has no practical meaning
2013-03-10T12:24:01 < jpa-> ok.. i don't expect anyone else to have done that :)
2013-03-10T12:24:58 < Robint91> jpa-, if it runs with 10kops on a 72MHz STM32
2013-03-10T12:25:03 < Robint91> I would be happy
2013-03-10T12:25:33 < jpa-> could get much better with dynamic translation
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2013-03-10T12:41:20 < baird> Done a 6502 simulator. My code managed a ~7.5MHz virtual cpu with a C-source engine. Another guy went the entirely-machine code route and got an effective 16MHz.
2013-03-10T12:41:33 < baird> (w/ 168MHz F4)
2013-03-10T12:42:57 < baird> The hard part is accurately emulating all the cpu flags.. Especially when there's different ALU modes (binary, BCD..)
2013-03-10T12:50:21 < Robint91> baird, isn't a 8051 much simpler as a 6502
2013-03-10T12:50:42 < jpa-> about the same complexity AFAIK
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2013-03-10T13:33:38 < zyp> hmm, sounds fun
2013-03-10T13:33:45 < zyp> don't give me ideas :p
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2013-03-10T13:55:48 < Robint91> zyp, why
2013-03-10T13:57:14 < zyp> because I don't have time for more projects :)
2013-03-10T13:59:05 < Robint91> zyp, a simple ansi C implementation of the 8051 would be great as a projcet
2013-03-10T13:59:43 < zyp> oh, I'd do it in C++
2013-03-10T13:59:48 < qyx_> i think there are some
2013-03-10T14:01:47 < MrMobius> there is an x86 emulator for the 8051. you could emulate an emulator for extra fun
2013-03-10T14:03:18 < baird> The "Flea86" project does that..
2013-03-10T14:04:31 < MrMobius> right. just emulate that on your F4
2013-03-10T14:05:26 < MrMobius> did you see the avr emulating an ARM used to run Linux?
2013-03-10T14:05:48 < zyp> sure
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2013-03-10T14:19:00 < Robint91> [1]MrMobius, wasn't that a x86 that the avr emulated?
2013-03-10T14:19:07 < Robint91> I need to look it up
2013-03-10T14:19:58 < qyx_> i remember it was arm
2013-03-10T14:21:11 < Robint91> oh it is arm
2013-03-10T14:21:29 < qyx_> is there any advantage in doing iq demodulation in hardware?
2013-03-10T14:21:42 < Robint91> qyx_, fpga?
2013-03-10T14:22:04 < qyx_> no, discrete iq demod chip
2013-03-10T14:22:40 < Robint91> qyx_, yeah, better SNR, less sample rate needed for the ADCs
2013-03-10T14:22:48 < Robint91> but you need two of those
2013-03-10T14:22:49 < qyx_> or is it enough just to downmix rf signal, sample it and use pure software solution for that
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2013-03-10T14:23:08 < qyx_> hm, snr
2013-03-10T14:23:32 < Robint91> qyx_, you still got problems with your image frequency when you just downmix it
2013-03-10T14:24:56 < qyx_> so it is better to downmix to IF, iq demodulate and use two ADCs?
2013-03-10T14:25:12 < Robint91> nah, downmix to IQ
2013-03-10T14:25:16 < Robint91> direct conversion
2013-03-10T14:25:28 < qyx_> direct from rf to baseband iq?
2013-03-10T14:25:32 < Robint91> yep
2013-03-10T14:26:08 < Robint91> every mixing steps adds image frequencies and noise
2013-03-10T14:26:15 < Robint91> so you want less of those
2013-03-10T14:26:32 < qyx_> ok, i understand
2013-03-10T14:26:44 < qyx_> but i couldn't find suitable ic for that
2013-03-10T14:26:52 < Robint91> analog?
2013-03-10T14:26:56 < Robint91> which frequencies?
2013-03-10T14:27:52 < qyx_> i need to cover at least pmr and lpd bands, up to 868MHz
2013-03-10T14:28:45 < Robint91> qyx_, ADL5387 ?
2013-03-10T14:29:09 < Robint91> or AD8348
2013-03-10T14:31:45 < qyx_> looks nice
2013-03-10T14:33:44 < Robint91> qyx_, ADF4350 or something to generate the LO
2013-03-10T14:33:45 < qyx_> i assume it just needs antenna and lna in front of it, doesn't it?
2013-03-10T14:33:47 < Robint91> and you are ready
2013-03-10T14:34:02 < Robint91> qyx_, antenna, lna and LO
2013-03-10T14:34:23 < qyx_> LO from that adf
2013-03-10T14:34:45 < Robint91> yeah
2013-03-10T14:35:21 < Robint91> qyx_, what are you building?
2013-03-10T14:36:35 < qyx_> just brainstorming if it is better to use "ready to use" modules which can do some sort of ook/fsk only
2013-03-10T14:37:31 < qyx_> or do just rf frontend and do everything in software and adapt dynamically to changing environment
2013-03-10T14:39:16 < Robint91> qyx_, nice
2013-03-10T14:39:40 < Robint91> qyx_, extra internet points for designing an OFDM system
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2013-03-10T15:19:37 < karlp> anyone used contiki os here?
2013-03-10T15:22:04 < karlp> I kinda want the ipv6 and 802.15.4 support, but it seems a much more complicated environment
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2013-03-10T15:48:36 < jpa-> more complicated than what?
--- Log opened Sun Mar 10 16:25:15 2013
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2013-03-10T16:58:29 <+Steffanx> hmm, is the stm32w some proprietary family?!
2013-03-10T16:58:41 < jpa-> partly
2013-03-10T16:59:01 < jpa-> the radio side is (was?) not publicly documented
2013-03-10T16:59:38 <+Steffanx> There is no reference manual at all, but most of the registers seem to be in the datasheet ( except for the radio part )
2013-03-10T17:01:57 <+Steffanx> Meh, stm :(
2013-03-10T17:03:34 < jpa-> maybe they'll give it to you if you ask nicely ;)
2013-03-10T17:06:03 <+Steffanx> with a lot of nda and stuff
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2013-03-10T19:44:48 < Laurenceb_> Steffanx: they have libraries for the stm32w rf now
2013-03-10T19:44:53 < Laurenceb_> so its pretty usable
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2013-03-10T19:51:40 < Tectu> what is the STM32W ?
2013-03-10T19:52:11 < cTn> BJfreeman: do you have a minute ?
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2013-03-10T20:02:23 < karlp> Laurenceb_: doesn't help when neither digi nor mouser will sell me the rfckit for the stm32w
2013-03-10T20:04:19 < Laurenceb_> no issues here in uk
2013-03-10T20:04:29 < Laurenceb_> maybe its the frequency allocation?
2013-03-10T20:04:44 < karlp> no, AES.
2013-03-10T20:05:03 < karlp> bad paperwork really.
2013-03-10T20:05:12 < karlp> mouser will sell me mrf24j40, but not stm32w.
2013-03-10T20:05:18 < karlp> digikey wont' sell me either
2013-03-10T20:05:39 < Bird|lappy> they probably complain something about the EARs?
2013-03-10T20:05:39 < karlp> haven't tried buying the atmel parts
2013-03-10T20:06:15 < karlp> just an admin oversight some time in the past
2013-03-10T20:06:26 < karlp> iceland didn't count as europe and just got forgotten I think.
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2013-03-10T20:22:38 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb, yes, but that's not reference manual :)
2013-03-10T20:23:50 < BJfreeman> hey cTn
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2013-03-10T20:25:25 < cTn> BJfreeman: hi
2013-03-10T20:26:17 < BJfreeman> karlp I love this site   http://www.digipart.com/search/stm32w
2013-03-10T20:26:18 <+Steffanx> Which lib do you talk about btw Laurenceb_ ?
2013-03-10T20:26:38 < Laurenceb_> on the st site theres two libraries
2013-03-10T20:26:41 <+Steffanx> looks 'exactly' like octopart
2013-03-10T20:26:44 < Laurenceb_> raw low level and zigbee
2013-03-10T20:26:50 < cTn> i finally managed to find some time to do some more "testing", uploading the code is easy peazy with the pythonLoader
2013-03-10T20:27:07 < BJfreeman> neat cTn
2013-03-10T20:27:16 < karlp> BJfreeman: what do you mean about it?
2013-03-10T20:27:40 < cTn> but the problem is BJfreeman, i can't really tell if its actually working (the loader does recognize the bootloader and writes/verify the bin file i send over)
2013-03-10T20:27:41 < Tectu> is the STM32W somehow "new"?
2013-03-10T20:27:47 < cTn> but it doesn't appear to work :(
2013-03-10T20:27:48 < BJfreeman> I can find who supplies parts easily like the stm32w
2013-03-10T20:28:23 < cTn> i only wrote a super simple sketch, thats supposed to print hi messages to serial 1 2 3 over and over again
2013-03-10T20:28:28 < cTn> but nothing is happening :/
2013-03-10T20:28:30 <+Steffanx> Not really new-ish Tectu
2013-03-10T20:28:59 < BJfreeman> bummer
2013-03-10T20:29:44 <+Steffanx> Looks like they lost the download during their website 'upgrade' Laurenceb_ :(
2013-03-10T20:29:51 < BJfreeman> I need to refresh my memory on your board
2013-03-10T20:29:52 < Laurenceb_> doh
2013-03-10T20:30:02 < Laurenceb_> i have the zip somewhere...
2013-03-10T20:30:10 < cTn> BJfreeman: its this one, http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml
2013-03-10T20:30:53 < cTn> basically what i did was, i fired up libmaple, wrote a simple testing sketch http://pastebin.com/3EgWrDmr
2013-03-10T20:31:19 < cTn> compiled, took the bin file out of the temporary directory in system and flashed it over to the stm32 with the python loader
2013-03-10T20:31:30 < cTn> maybe i am doing something wrong ? :/
2013-03-10T20:33:45 < BJfreeman> jpa seemed knowledgable about the phython, that is out of my knowledge
2013-03-10T20:34:26 < cTn> well that loader seems to write/verify the data successfully
2013-03-10T20:34:39 < cTn> so i am guessing i am doing something wrong elsewhere
2013-03-10T20:35:32 < mervaka> anyone had any luck setting up a simulator in uVision? I'm totally clueless when it comes to ini files..
2013-03-10T20:35:51 < cTn> when you were reading about it, did you managed to find any info about what does that jumper next to the boot0 button do ?
2013-03-10T20:36:41 < cTn> that one http://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/ET-ARM_STAMP_E600.jpg
2013-03-10T20:37:17 < BJfreeman> the IDE creates a file that is to be loaded by dfu util if you upload from the programmer it locates programs differently
2013-03-10T20:38:00 < gxti> cTn: it sets the BOOT1 pin, which controls which bootloader is used
2013-03-10T20:38:33 < cTn> hmm
2013-03-10T20:40:08 < cTn> so using ide isn't exactly the best thing to use in this case BJfreeman huh? :/
2013-03-10T20:41:23 < BJfreeman> the solution I am working on, is adding the code from the Arduino IDE to use programmers
2013-03-10T20:41:55 < cTn> hmm
2013-03-10T20:43:03 < BJfreeman> also looking at how to do this manually using dfu-util. the problem is are you loading the bootloaer that interfaces with dfu
2013-03-10T20:43:13 < BJfreeman> or the ST bootloader
2013-03-10T20:43:54 < cTn> i dont know ? ;/
2013-03-10T20:45:29 < cTn> BJfreeman: Bootloader version 0x22
2013-03-10T20:45:29 < cTn> Chip id 0x414, STM32F1, performance, high-density
2013-03-10T20:45:45 < cTn> thats what i get from the stm32loader python script
2013-03-10T20:46:16 < BJfreeman> the tips and tricks have some tool chains and upload tools
2013-03-10T20:47:05 < BJfreeman> WinARM Tutorial and Examples:
2013-03-10T20:48:14 < BJfreeman> also there is a email that you might contact them and ask for the cd.
2013-03-10T20:48:44 < cTn> i think ill ask that friend of mine (who gave me the board) if he has such
2013-03-10T20:49:09 < BJfreeman> would make you life easier, maybe
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2013-03-10T20:50:57 < BJfreeman> grrr hate with I accidently delete a channel
2013-03-10T20:51:27 < cTn> :-)
2013-03-10T20:55:12 < karlp> BJfreeman: it's no problem finding someone who "supplies" a part, it's a whole different matter finding someone who'll actually sell it and ship it to me in iceland.
2013-03-10T20:59:44 < BJfreeman> karlp minor details
2013-03-10T20:59:48 < BJfreeman> :P
2013-03-10T20:59:49 < karlp> hehe
2013-03-10T21:00:09 < karlp> mrf24j40 and at86rf23x are both in mainline linux kernel now actually.
2013-03-10T21:00:54 < cTn> BJfreeman: he said that he will make an image of the cd and upload it for me
2013-03-10T21:00:57 < BJfreeman> I am more into xbee types that use mesh networks
2013-03-10T21:00:57 < cTn> so will see :-)
2013-03-10T21:01:12 < BJfreeman> cTn great
2013-03-10T21:01:20 < karlp> what do  you mean by "xbee types"
2013-03-10T21:01:27 < karlp> it's all just networking on top of 802.15.4
2013-03-10T21:02:28 < BJfreeman> true but xbees are standalone and take care of the mesh without using Uc resources
2013-03-10T21:04:43 < BJfreeman> sort of like the STM32w if I read the spec right
2013-03-10T21:08:51 < qyx_> in other words proprietary closed solution requiring proprietary hw :P (digimesh)
2013-03-10T21:09:39 < qyx_> which you cannot put on other uC with different 802.15.4 transceiver
2013-03-10T21:11:13 < BJfreeman> actually part of OLPC project open source
2013-03-10T21:11:44 < BJfreeman> which why I said xbee types
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2013-03-10T21:17:40 < BJfreeman> but there is nothing wrong with using the bare RF modules and add a Uc with SPI interface
2013-03-10T21:18:32 < ds2> 8
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2013-03-10T21:19:33 < zyp> I'm still looking forward to playing with efr4d and nrf51
2013-03-10T21:19:45 < zyp> whenever they get available and I got time for that
2013-03-10T21:20:22 < karlp> BJfreeman: got a link to this olpc meshing with xbees?
2013-03-10T21:22:09 <+Steffanx> efr4d isnt that q3 2013? :)
2013-03-10T21:22:48 < zyp> sure, that's pretty soon
2013-03-10T21:23:03 <+Steffanx> soon ok
2013-03-10T21:26:35 <+Steffanx> Happy 2014 zyp !
2013-03-10T21:30:26 <+Steffanx> Some devboard seem to e available for the nRF51xxxx zyp ..
2013-03-10T21:30:48 < zyp> sure, but I don't have time now :)
2013-03-10T21:31:21 <+Steffanx> Worst excuse EVER
2013-03-10T21:39:21 < BJfreeman> karlp http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Mesh_Network_Details
2013-03-10T21:39:55 < ds2> Steffanx: besides the one from Noridc?
2013-03-10T21:40:14 < karlp> umm, how is that related to xbees or 802.15.4?
2013-03-10T21:40:33 <+Steffanx> ds2 no.
2013-03-10T21:40:37 < ds2> oh
2013-03-10T21:40:43 < ds2> the nordic one has been available for months
2013-03-10T21:40:57 < ds2> they were giving them out at the launch seminars
2013-03-10T21:41:32 < Laurenceb_> oh no
2013-03-10T21:41:35 < Laurenceb_> hes back
2013-03-10T21:41:43 < ds2> ?
2013-03-10T21:41:49 < Laurenceb_> baird hoped flyback had killed himself
2013-03-10T21:41:51 <+Steffanx> flyback-
2013-03-10T21:42:06 <+Steffanx> baird is just another random weird guy, so..
2013-03-10T21:42:25 < ds2> oh
2013-03-10T21:43:08 <+Steffanx> dunno
2013-03-10T21:43:10 <+Steffanx> zlog
2013-03-10T21:43:10 < zlog> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-10.html
2013-03-10T21:43:11 < Laurenceb_> lol
2013-03-10T21:43:27 < Laurenceb_>  ##stmtrolls
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2013-03-10T21:44:54 < qyx_> BJfreeman: there are many opensource mesh implementations (mesh as a network topology), olpc is meshing using 802.11.. but i was pointing to the fact that digi has its own mesh protocol, which is not normally available
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2013-03-10T21:52:35 < Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9LUJ68cr14
2013-03-10T21:53:03 < Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tasgbVFBtqw
2013-03-10T21:53:09 < Laurenceb_> lolz the epileptor
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2013-03-10T21:53:49 < Erlkoenig> why is the "Itanium C++ ABI" referred to as a "Generic C++ ABI", even by the ARM C++ EABI specification - which is an entirely different processor?
2013-03-10T21:57:02 <+Steffanx> pretty nice effect Laurenceb_
2013-03-10T21:57:03 <+Steffanx> the last one
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2013-03-10T22:01:56 < BJfreeman> qyx_ I agree. however as I said I was refering to having a Uc controlled RF that does all the network handling
2013-03-10T22:04:32 < qyx_> yep, but i perceive that as a disadvantage if rf module handles all the networking, even more if its protocol is non-standard
2013-03-10T22:04:57 < qyx_> then you cannot include different rf module in the same network, you are being locked to one manufacturer
2013-03-10T22:05:13 < Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsToQmFndpg
2013-03-10T22:05:17 < Laurenceb_> rofl
2013-03-10T22:05:22 < Laurenceb_> stm32f4discovery demoscene
2013-03-10T22:09:53 < BJfreeman> qyx_ i think my attempt at short hand to explain a concept has failed. in my background we breakdown operations to basic components to keep from getting tied to a manufacture.
2013-03-10T22:10:38 < BJfreeman> for instance using parrallel to serial shift registers to do RS323 or 485
2013-03-10T22:11:51 < BJfreeman> so the xbee type would be a board that has an rf component with the desired Uc
2013-03-10T22:12:10 < BJfreeman> very generic
2013-03-10T22:12:54 < qyx_> ah, saying "xbee type" you mean board with uC and rf?
2013-03-10T22:13:02 < BJfreeman> yes
2013-03-10T22:13:07 < qyx_> then its ok :P
2013-03-10T22:20:06 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb_ / dongs: http://buttcoin.org
2013-03-10T22:20:32 < Laurenceb_> lulwut
2013-03-10T22:20:51 <+Steffanx> must be a domain from dongs
2013-03-10T22:22:12 < Laurenceb_> trolltastic
2013-03-10T22:22:19 < Laurenceb_> troll/0
2013-03-10T22:23:49 <+Steffanx> Doesn't that crash trollenceb_-os ?
2013-03-10T22:24:35 < Laurenceb_> wtf so much crap on there
2013-03-10T22:24:45 < Laurenceb_> its almost like they trolled themselves
2013-03-10T22:25:43 <+Steffanx> http://buttcoin.org/why-should-i-invest-in-bitcoins heh
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2013-03-10T22:29:48 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/ukH9t.png
2013-03-10T22:30:03 <+Steffanx> Wonderful
2013-03-10T22:30:10 <+Steffanx> What exactly am i looking at? I mean what is what?
2013-03-10T22:30:14 < zyp> yaw control
2013-03-10T22:30:27 < zyp> setpoint, measurement and correction
2013-03-10T22:30:30 < Laurenceb_> yawn control
2013-03-10T22:32:20 < zyp> sure
2013-03-10T22:32:42 < zyp> either way, it means rc input stuff is working
2013-03-10T22:32:55 < zyp> and yaw Kp is way too low :p
2013-03-10T22:33:28 < karlp> mleh, contiki and libopencm3 fighting over bsd vs lgpl3.
2013-03-10T22:33:33 < karlp> unfun.
2013-03-10T22:34:46 <+Steffanx> heh. Don't you love GPL :)
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2013-03-10T22:44:25 < karlp> no, not really.
2013-03-10T22:47:25 <+Steffanx> That simulator of contiki looks pretty interestig
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2013-03-10T23:28:00 < robint91> karlp, contiki is bsd?
2013-03-10T23:28:22 < karlp> yeah
2013-03-10T23:28:50 < robint91> okay, why would libopencm3 in godsname be lgpl3
2013-03-10T23:29:01 < robint91> you always need to static link to it
2013-03-10T23:29:02 < karlp> because it used to be gpl3.
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2013-03-10T23:29:26 < karlp> it's been turned down to lgpl3, but the original authors are philosophically opposed to relaxing it any further
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2013-03-10T23:29:38 < robint91> flyback-, I'm making a ansi C 8051 simulator
2013-03-10T23:29:42 < robint91> flyback-, very basic
2013-03-10T23:30:00 < robint91> flyback-, the simulator they use is C++ based
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2013-03-10T23:30:08 < robint91> flyback-, I want a clean C one
2013-03-10T23:30:46 < robint91> flyback-, I don't need any extras
2013-03-10T23:32:33 < robint91> karlp, I don't understand there problems with further relaxing the license
2013-03-10T23:33:45 < robint91> karlp, GPL and derrivatives are maybe even worse then EA's DRM
2013-03-10T23:33:45 < karlp> please feel extremely welcome to make that opinion public and louder on the libopencm3 mailing list :)
2013-03-10T23:34:32 < karlp> but be warned, it (as always) quickly deviates from, "we want to use these two open source projects together, what can we reword to make that happen" and into, "you're wrong, X is evil, Y is stupid"
2013-03-10T23:35:06 < robint91> karlp, meh, every opensource project should have a public domain license
2013-03-10T23:35:26 < robint91> you release your code for all the people to use
2013-03-10T23:35:36 < robint91> you loose rights of it
2013-03-10T23:35:43 < robint91> don't like, ask money
2013-03-10T23:35:57 < gxti> that's ... interesting
2013-03-10T23:36:28 < robint91> you give it to the community or you don't give it
2013-03-10T23:36:39 < qyx_> everyone has the possibility to choose license for their project
2013-03-10T23:36:40 < robint91> not some gray licensing that we have now
2013-03-10T23:37:08 < qyx_> if you have some conditions, you can restrict licensing
2013-03-10T23:37:17 < gxti> licensing is so boring
2013-03-10T23:37:20 < qyx_> if you dont accept the license, then dont use it
2013-03-10T23:37:26 < gxti> just write some code already
2013-03-10T23:37:43 < gxti> anyone who gets excited about licenses is worth staying away from
2013-03-10T23:38:01 < karlp> retyping code is boring too.
2013-03-10T23:38:36 < qyx_> and stealing it if the original programmer doesnt want you to use it commercially too :P
2013-03-10T23:38:59 < gxti> i can't recall a single instance in the past 10 years where i saw someone change their mind about licensing in an argument
2013-03-10T23:39:04 < gxti> so why bother talking about it
2013-03-10T23:39:09 < qyx_> yep
2013-03-10T23:39:51 < robint91> qyx_, see like u-boot (the bootloader) it is a nice peace of software but the GPLv2 license
2013-03-10T23:40:10 < qyx_> and is that a problem?
2013-03-10T23:40:16 < gxti> it doesn't matter, you don't link against uboot
2013-03-10T23:40:43 < robint91> qyx_, we need to make changes to u-boot, so gplv2 tells us to open our changes
2013-03-10T23:41:02 < qyx_> i still dont see problem there
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2013-03-10T23:42:44 < robint91> qyx_, I don't like the opensource software when NDAs are involved, (A special HW chip needed to be initialized in u-boot to do some communication before linux booted)
2013-03-10T23:42:44 < zyp> that sounds like one of the cases where gpl is reasonable
2013-03-10T23:42:55 < robint91> on a custom linux board
2013-03-10T23:43:13 < qyx_> then you simply have to use another bootloader
2013-03-10T23:43:17 < qyx_> maybe some proprietary one :P
2013-03-10T23:43:19 < karlp> gxti: well, libopencm3 did change from gpl3 to lgpl3, so someone changed their minds there
2013-03-10T23:43:22 < zyp> why not do that in a seperate stage before u-boot?
2013-03-10T23:43:29 < zyp> that's what TI does on OMAP
2013-03-10T23:44:16 < qyx_> actually the whole concept of NDAs is dumb
2013-03-10T23:44:28 < gxti> karlp: probably because zero people agreed with that choice :p
2013-03-10T23:44:29 < qyx_> thats the same as security thru obscurity
2013-03-10T23:44:39 < robint91> zyp, we moved to stack to an other MCU
2013-03-10T23:44:39 < gxti> karlp: still useless to me though
2013-03-10T23:44:57 < gxti> qyx_: you know that, and i know that, and everybody knows that, but they aren't going anywhere
2013-03-10T23:45:17 < gxti> it's a legal fiction -- a device that helps them win in court even if it's practically useless
2013-03-10T23:45:25 < gxti> just like DRM hooray
2013-03-10T23:45:28 < robint91> qyx_, NDAs aren't dumb, I have signed a few of those, and even made some up
2013-03-10T23:46:13 < robint91> qyx_, I'm even in the process to patent some stuff
2013-03-10T23:46:26 < qyx_> NDA is just legal attempt to protect something, not technical one
2013-03-10T23:46:31 < gxti> robint91: you are weird
2013-03-10T23:46:37 < qyx_> robint91: you are weird
2013-03-10T23:46:38 < robint91> qyx_, it is just to see some investment not scatterd
2013-03-10T23:46:57 < qyx_> then you should understand gpl
2013-03-10T23:47:05 < robint91> gxti, qyx_ hardware and opensource don't go along
2013-03-10T23:47:13 < qyx_> it is just attempt to see some ...
2013-03-10T23:47:16 < gxti> ok i'm done here
2013-03-10T23:47:19 < gxti> back to productive things
2013-03-10T23:47:20 < qyx_> oh
2013-03-10T23:50:19 < robint91> in my opinion the opensource model that is used on software is broken as hell when it is tried to be used on hardware
2013-03-10T23:51:05 < zyp> aren't you still talking about software though?
2013-03-10T23:51:07 < robint91> a software dev, can we a decent dev machine make the perfect library that everyone uses
2013-03-10T23:52:14 < robint91> buy PC, write software, get hosted on github, shout at everyone that you made the perfect lib, ... , instant geek karma
2013-03-10T23:52:21 < robint91> in the hardware view
2013-03-10T23:53:11 < robint91> buy PC, design schematic, design pcb, build prototypes, write software, build again prototypes, ..., oh a OSHW project, nice
2013-03-10T23:53:56 < robint91> maybe the software dev is at the end of the month 2000$ less money to buy the PC etc
2013-03-10T23:54:20 < robint91> the hardware dev needs to pay a lot more for his prototypes
2013-03-10T23:54:56 < robint91> and at the end of the month a chinese guy says oh what nice, a free product that I can make, and he starts selling it, so the HW dev earn nothing
2013-03-10T23:55:23 < robint91> do you think someone stops doing that because of the OSHW logo
2013-03-10T23:55:27 < robint91> I guess not
2013-03-10T23:56:02 < robint91> OSHW is only nice for hobby projects
2013-03-10T23:56:28 < zyp> so, how much does the software guy earn when everybody can just download his software?
2013-03-10T23:56:50 < robint91> zyp, he has only lost 2000$ where as the HW guy lost a lot more money
2013-03-10T23:57:23 < zyp> $2000 plus how many hours to write it?
2013-03-10T23:57:34 < robint91> zyp, yeah
2013-03-10T23:57:37 < zyp> your comparison doesn't make sense.
2013-03-10T23:57:41 < robint91> zyp, same of the HW guy
2013-03-10T23:57:59 < robint91> zyp, my point is that it is almost free to press the compile button
2013-03-10T23:58:41 < robint91> If I press my gerber export/ order PCB button I need to think trice if I'm willing to spend 200€ on proto pcbs
2013-03-10T23:59:33 < zyp> still sounds like a small value compared to the man hours
--- Day changed Mon Mar 11 2013
2013-03-11T00:00:22 < zyp> because in the end, it all boils down to development costs
2013-03-11T00:01:12 < robint91> zyp, in my opinion the dev costs of hardware for me don't weigh up to fully opensource it
2013-03-11T00:01:23 < robint91> zyp, depending on the application
2013-03-11T00:01:49 < robint91> zyp, for hobby projects I support it, but not for commericial applications
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2013-03-11T00:02:00 < robint91> zyp, and sparkfun isn't an example
2013-03-11T00:02:14 < zyp> in my opinion your argument is bullshit, because software projects might have just as high development costs :)
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2013-03-11T00:05:13 < zyp> oh, but
2013-03-11T00:05:14 < zyp> 22:51:05 < zyp> aren't you still talking about software though?
2013-03-11T00:05:14 < robint91> zyp, as yet I have seen a commerical viable OSHW design that I can buy in the store
2013-03-11T00:05:38 < robint91> zyp, where it is easy to buy something in a store where OSS is used
2013-03-11T00:06:03 < zyp> when did the discussion switch to talking about opensourcing the hardware from opensourcing the software running on that hardware?
2013-03-11T00:06:33 < robint91> zyp, NDA part for hardware
2013-03-11T00:06:41 < zyp> what about it?
2013-03-11T00:07:20 < robint91> zyp, GPLV2 + closed(software) ->  NDA -> open hardware -> OSHW
2013-03-11T00:07:37 < robint91> I think the discussion went like this
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2013-03-11T00:08:18 < qyx_> you said that you cannot initialise NDA-ed hw using OSS software
2013-03-11T00:08:26 < qyx_> we asked why you have to
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2013-03-11T00:08:46 < zyp> ah, right
2013-03-11T00:09:13 < zyp> well, yeah, just do the initialization in a seperate component
2013-03-11T00:09:35 < robint91> qyx_, it was a custom customer project, we moved the whole NDA part to a MCU
2013-03-11T00:10:44 < robint91> and stayed of the u-boot source
2013-03-11T00:10:47 < robint91> *source
2013-03-11T00:11:35 <+dekar> ulinux on stm32: http://www.emcraft.com/index.php/products/89
2013-03-11T00:11:55 <+dekar> sadly they want us to buy their BSP, I would have liked to try it :/
2013-03-11T00:13:33 < robint91> zyp, qyx_ why am I not free to do that? include NDAed stuff? in other words the dev takes a part of my freedom to USE there software! Wasn't the point of the whole opensource movement to give USERS there freedom?
2013-03-11T00:14:02 < zyp> you don't need to go all RMS
2013-03-11T00:14:32 < robint91> zyp, :p
2013-03-11T00:15:46 < Bird|lappy> robint91, actually, that might change soon, with SFE's retail initiative...
2013-03-11T00:15:48 < Bird|lappy> wouldn't be surprised if the BusPirate gets a retail package sooner or later
2013-03-11T00:16:53 <+Steffanx> haha dekar
2013-03-11T00:17:41 < gxti> chumby was vaguely open-source and you could buy them at best buy :p
2013-03-11T00:18:23 < zyp> robint91, I currently earn my living working on mostly open source software and I'm rather happy with that situation
2013-03-11T00:22:05 <+dekar> Steffanx, speaking of not being able to make money on FOSS ;)
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2013-03-11T00:22:34 < zyp> dekar, that's reasonable enough
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2013-03-11T00:22:56 < Robin_> dekar they have a github page
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2013-03-11T00:23:20 < zyp> they are not obligated to give it to you, they are just obligated to give you the source along with the binaries you buy
2013-03-11T00:23:40 < robint91> dekar, https://github.com/EmcraftSystems
2013-03-11T00:24:21 <+Steffanx> zyp likes to do it the other way around. using FOSS to make closed sores :)
2013-03-11T00:24:21 <+Steffanx> apps
2013-03-11T00:24:22 <+dekar> Steffanx, I guess they just hope none of their customers spreads their BSP/uboot (GPL?) for free
2013-03-11T00:24:23 <+dekar> awesome :)
2013-03-11T00:24:44 < zyp> Steffanx, me? when?
2013-03-11T00:25:10 <+Steffanx> for your living zyp ?
2013-03-11T00:25:22 < zyp> it's open
2013-03-11T00:25:29 < zyp> well, the parts that is
2013-03-11T00:25:40 <+dekar> zyp, I know the GPL ;)
2013-03-11T00:25:59 <+dekar> zyp, yet I am glad they have an open github nonetheless :)
2013-03-11T00:31:43 < zyp> Steffanx, for instance somewhere in here: http://sourceforge.net/motorola/atrix2/home/Home/
2013-03-11T00:36:26 <+dekar> They even wrote an article about it: http://electronicdesign.com/embedded/practical-advice-running-uclinux-cortex-m3m4
2013-03-11T00:38:26 <+dekar> It states Qt/Embedded would run fine on Cortex-M :D
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2013-03-11T04:53:00 < ds2> hmm
2013-03-11T05:11:02 < baird> How much hair have you got left, crybaby.
2013-03-11T05:16:25 < gxti> good to see you too
2013-03-11T05:17:51 < baird> I always blow shit up on my birthday.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpUW26MkfYQ
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2013-03-11T06:04:56 < baird> Nothing over $5: http://i.imgur.com/sEwv3ZZ.jpg .. Had a Hamradio field day recently.
2013-03-11T06:05:37 < baird> The smaller brick is 100W 12+/- VDC
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2013-03-11T08:36:35 < BJfreeman> <-puts on mask and give flyback a bearhug
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2013-03-11T10:41:13 < solid_li1> anyone around?
2013-03-11T10:41:58 < solid_li1> I got the gcc for the STM32F4DISCOVERY board, but I don't know how to send any programming to the board/etc
2013-03-11T10:42:44 < dongs> ?
2013-03-11T10:43:07 < dongs> use the built in stlink + texane or wahtever aids, or you can use uart bootloader + flash loader demo (on windows)
2013-03-11T10:43:11 < dongs> no idea on lunix
2013-03-11T10:46:30 <+Steffanx> dongs woke up. Hide!
2013-03-11T10:50:05 < solid_li1> dongs: it's a generic ARM compiler toolchain for Linux, so no such tools included
2013-03-11T10:50:17  * solid_li1 is poking around on hackaday for an answer
2013-03-11T10:50:17 < dongs>  < dongs> no idea on lunix
2013-03-11T10:50:33 < solid_li1> I know.  I was just letting you know that.
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2013-03-11T11:22:05 < baird> solid_li1: beginners' walk-through: http://cu.rious.org/make/stm32f4-discovery-board-with-linux/
2013-03-11T11:23:54 < solid_li1> baird: awesome, thank you!
2013-03-11T11:36:42 < Tectu> has anyone here ever done DCMI?
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2013-03-11T11:52:03 < karlp_> solid_li1: except skip the bit that tells you to get summon-arm-tooclhain, and just get gcc arm launchpad, as recommended on s-a-t itself these days.
2013-03-11T11:52:51 < karlp_> also, replace "continue" with "run" in the end.
2013-03-11T11:57:13 < baird> I'm ragequitting the local raspberrypi group. They don't like how I keep mentioning cheaper products than what the Mod's mates are trying to flog.
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2013-03-11T12:00:44 <+Steffanx> You have a local rpi group? LOL
2013-03-11T12:02:09 < dongs> trashberry
2013-03-11T12:02:31 <+Steffanx> Yes we know  you dont have a very large vocabulary dongs
2013-03-11T12:11:22 < jpa-> anonymous raspberry addicts
2013-03-11T12:11:50 <+Steffanx> local group.. makes them less anonymous
2013-03-11T12:13:19 < Tectu> dongs, got BMP working? Yet shipped?
2013-03-11T12:15:03 < dongs> parts arrived.
2013-03-11T12:15:52 < Tectu> soldering?
2013-03-11T12:16:03 <+Steffanx> lol Tectu. patience
2013-03-11T12:16:44 < Tectu> she told me to bump him
2013-03-11T12:20:24 <+Steffanx> she..
2013-03-11T12:21:00 < Tectu> fuck, I meant he -.-'
2013-03-11T12:21:05 < Tectu> that was really a typo, sorry dongs
2013-03-11T12:21:33 < Tectu> dat language that makes typos form proper scentenses...
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2013-03-11T12:34:55 <+Steffanx> Indeed, who came up with that. he + s = she
2013-03-11T12:38:21 <+Steffanx> baird you have 'local' groups for many things there in aussieland, not?
2013-03-11T12:43:16 < dongs> local pedobear groups
2013-03-11T12:45:55 <+Steffanx> Hmm, I've seen a video on a dutch post whatever crap video you can. Somehow i get the idea that video is really suitable for this channel
2013-03-11T12:46:19 <+Steffanx> But that would make me Laurenceb_-ish
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2013-03-11T12:48:37 < laurenceb__> You mean this one: http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/6531722/901d79a7/en_dan_is_het_nu_tijd_voorrrrr.html ( wink wink ) NSFW
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2013-03-11T12:49:26 <+Steffanx> donigs probably likes it
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2013-03-11T12:51:24 < dongs> +1, informative
2013-03-11T12:51:35 < dongs> Dit item is NSFW. Zeker weten? Klik dan bovenaan om NSFW items aan te zetten.
2013-03-11T12:51:36 < dongs> lolwat
2013-03-11T12:51:44 <+Steffanx> Oh, awh
2013-03-11T12:51:46 <+Steffanx> Crap website
2013-03-11T12:51:56 < dongs> found
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2013-03-11T12:52:09 < dongs> old + ugly
2013-03-11T12:52:16 <+Steffanx> Doesn't matter.
2013-03-11T12:52:58 <+Steffanx> You are old aswell, so it still is a perfect video for this channel
2013-03-11T12:53:05 < Laurenceb_> Steffanx is searching for fap material?
2013-03-11T12:53:40 <+Steffanx> There are better sources for that than that website
2013-03-11T12:54:38 < Laurenceb_> im sure you know
2013-03-11T12:54:46 <+Steffanx> Im even more sure you know
2013-03-11T12:55:10 < Laurenceb_> trollercoaster
2013-03-11T12:55:31 <+Steffanx> Whoa, best game EVER
2013-03-11T12:55:59 < dongs> https://youtube.com/watch?v=UIN-znUKTT4 no this is best game e ver
2013-03-11T12:56:19 <+Steffanx> wutf is that?
2013-03-11T12:56:53 <+Steffanx> A creation from you? First experience with flash?
2013-03-11T12:57:00 <+Steffanx> A result from Flash MX for dummies?
2013-03-11T12:59:24 <+Steffanx> Ah, it's a japanese TV show
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2013-03-11T13:02:41 < baird> Steffanx: it's a meetup.com thing.
2013-03-11T13:03:44 < baird> meatup. 50
2013-03-11T13:04:01 < baird> meatup. 50% of the groups on that are creepy Singles stuff.
2013-03-11T13:04:47 < baird> Shitting Dicknipples Online.
2013-03-11T13:06:39 <+Steffanx> You belong to the creepy single? :P
2013-03-11T13:08:07 < baird> Working on it.
2013-03-11T13:09:22 < baird> The next stage in my development is buying Women's fashion magazines.
2013-03-11T13:09:41 <+Steffanx> Yay
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2013-03-11T13:26:15 < baird> Woo. A Nexus 10 tablet should arrive in a week or so.
2013-03-11T13:30:38 < alexn> i get an sram flash error when i try to program an stm32f373vct with st-flash
2013-03-11T13:31:30 < alexn> http://pastebin.com/M5CV8sbQ
2013-03-11T13:39:13 < alexn> it works.
2013-03-11T13:39:44 < alexn> chip was broken
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2013-03-11T14:28:56 < Laurenceb> http://www.silabs.com/products/mcu/Pages/low-power-32-bit-microcontroller-badger-board.aspx
2013-03-11T14:28:58 < Laurenceb> nice
2013-03-11T14:29:13 < Laurenceb> 3days off a supercap
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2013-03-11T14:36:09 < karlp_> nice, except for, "You have attempted to add BADGER-SIM3L1-EK to your cart.
2013-03-11T14:36:10 < karlp_> This part is not available for ordering at this time as we are replenishing stock. Please see"
2013-03-11T14:42:37 < dongs> badger badger badger badger board?
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2013-03-11T14:50:23 < Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyixC9NsLI
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2013-03-11T15:10:14 < Laurenceb> oh noes
2013-03-11T15:10:15 < Laurenceb> http://www.isengard.co.uk/#News
2013-03-11T15:10:26 < Laurenceb> scroll to "Micro ETS progress"
2013-03-11T15:10:41 < Laurenceb> testing of the system’s software is being carried out in a unique way using £18 ‘raspberry pie’
2013-03-11T15:11:56 < dongs> what the fuck
2013-03-11T15:11:59 < dongs> D/M/Y date format
2013-03-11T15:12:12 < dongs> d/y/m AND year 2 digits
2013-03-11T15:12:18 < dongs> total fucking fAILuRE
2013-03-11T15:12:48 < qyx_> d/y/m?
2013-03-11T15:13:39 < qyx_> if you meant d/m/y, whats wrong about that?
2013-03-11T15:15:04 < qyx_> using £18 ‘raspberry pie’ skeleton computers
2013-03-11T15:15:05 < qyx_> :D
2013-03-11T15:15:21 < Tectu> dongs, got that shit assembled?
2013-03-11T15:15:35 < dongs> Tectu, I have put you on a permanent ignore, public and private. I have found you disturbing, rude and generally not worth talking to. According to the channels you hang on, it strengtens the effect of wanting to put you on ignore because of my lack of interest in you as a person. This message is not meant to be rude to you, just to inform you that i won't see anything of what you type from now on.
2013-03-11T15:15:54 < qyx_> :D
2013-03-11T15:15:58 < Tectu> lol what
2013-03-11T15:16:02 < Laurenceb> rofl
2013-03-11T15:16:10 < gxti> it's true, although coming from dongs it's even funnier
2013-03-11T15:16:24 < Tectu> yes, it really makes me feeling bad now :x
2013-03-11T15:16:32 < dongs> Tectu: remind me in 2-3 days.
2013-03-11T15:16:41 < dongs> assembly line is packed tomrorw, and possibly  day a fter
2013-03-11T15:16:50 < dongs> dont wanna change stencils cuz its annoying
2013-03-11T15:16:51 < Laurenceb> so dongs is selling BMP clitones?
2013-03-11T15:16:53 < Tectu> sounds good, thanks so far!
2013-03-11T15:17:47 < Tectu> Laurenceb, another topic - Is it worth to buy an F3 discovery? I currently have the F4 and the VL. I'm kinda interested in the compass thing
2013-03-11T15:18:10 < Laurenceb> depends if you want to develop imu stuff
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2013-03-11T15:19:29 < Robint91> hi all
2013-03-11T15:19:33 < Tectu> evening
2013-03-11T15:19:57 < Tectu> Laurenceb, is it somehow possible that the board was announced cheaper than it's now selling?
2013-03-11T15:20:23 < Laurenceb> wut
2013-03-11T15:20:32 < Tectu> I remember telling someone the F3 is about 8.-
2013-03-11T15:20:34 < Robint91> Tectu, what board?
2013-03-11T15:20:37 < Tectu> maybe it was pounds? o.O
2013-03-11T15:20:44 < Tectu> Robint91, the F3 discovery
2013-03-11T15:20:49 < Laurenceb> dunno
2013-03-11T15:20:51 < Robint91> ah
2013-03-11T15:20:55 < Laurenceb>  £9.1 in UK
2013-03-11T15:20:59 < Tectu> dongs, also, you forgot to mention that you dislike my character because of my use of lunix
2013-03-11T15:21:01 < Tectu> aaah
2013-03-11T15:21:04 < Tectu> that it was
2013-03-11T15:21:10 < Laurenceb> µµµµµµµµµ
2013-03-11T15:21:13 < Tectu> UK people should keep writing the currency instead of  .-
2013-03-11T15:21:21 < Tectu> I was really curious, it's 25.- here
2013-03-11T15:21:38 < Laurenceb> euros?
2013-03-11T15:21:59 < Tectu> swiss francs :D
2013-03-11T15:22:03 < Laurenceb> ¢
2013-03-11T15:22:08 < Tectu> about 20€ at farnell
2013-03-11T15:22:27 < Laurenceb> €³
2013-03-11T15:22:33 < Tectu> o0
2013-03-11T15:22:46 < Laurenceb> unicode is fun
2013-03-11T15:22:57 < Robint91> 10.9$ on digikey
2013-03-11T15:23:02 < Robint91> µC
2013-03-11T15:24:09 < Robint91> oh I can't buy and F3 discovery anymore?
2013-03-11T15:24:13 < Robint91> form belgium ftw
2013-03-11T15:25:11 < Tectu> have to leave now, cu
2013-03-11T15:25:12 < Robint91> http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&keywords=STM32F3DISCOVERY&x=-1211&y=-51&cur=USD
2013-03-11T15:25:33 < Robint91> http://www.digikey.be/search/en?refPId=1&homePageRef=homePage&x=-1075&y=-76&lang=en&site=be&keywords=STM32F3DISCOVERY
2013-03-11T15:25:48 < Robint91> silly digikey
2013-03-11T15:26:30 < dongs> unsure what youre trying to say
2013-03-11T15:26:32 < dongs> one is F0 one is F3
2013-03-11T15:26:46 < Robint91> dongs, &keywords=STM32F3DISCOVERY
2013-03-11T15:27:00 < dongs> pfft?
2013-03-11T15:27:06 < dongs> belgium digikey sucks
2013-03-11T15:27:30 < Robint91> dongs, you can't buy the f3discovery outside the US form digikey, because the L3GD20 gyro on it
2013-03-11T15:27:36 < Robint91> dongs, ITAR regulations
2013-03-11T15:27:36 < dongs> im sure
2013-03-11T15:27:54 < dongs> you cant export gyros > 1000dps in japan eit her
2013-03-11T15:28:33 < Laurenceb> lolzors
2013-03-11T15:28:35 < gxti> lol government.
2013-03-11T15:28:39 < Laurenceb> so gyro is made in malta
2013-03-11T15:28:44 < Laurenceb> then enters us
2013-03-11T15:28:48 < Robint91> Laurenceb, yep
2013-03-11T15:28:50 < Laurenceb> but it cant leave again
2013-03-11T15:28:52 < Laurenceb> fail
2013-03-11T15:28:59 < gxti> we eat ur gyros
2013-03-11T15:29:45 < Laurenceb> lulwut
2013-03-11T15:29:46 < Laurenceb> http://www.letschatautism.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/autism.png
2013-03-11T15:29:53 < Laurenceb> ^does not apply to flyback
2013-03-11T15:33:45 < Laurenceb> attn dongs: http://buttcoin.org/
2013-03-11T15:35:08 < Tectu> sfw?
2013-03-11T15:35:15 < Robint91> http://i.imgur.com/FAVyM.gif
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2013-03-11T15:54:48 < dongs> uh what the ufck
2013-03-11T15:55:02 < dongs> Laurenceb: why isnt L3G4200D scalefactor in its datasheet
2013-03-11T15:55:05 < dongs> like dps/lsb
2013-03-11T15:55:28 < Laurenceb> dunno
2013-03-11T15:55:34 < Laurenceb> that gyro is shit anyway
2013-03-11T15:55:38 < dongs> of course it is
2013-03-11T15:55:40 < Laurenceb> use the l3g20 or whatever
2013-03-11T15:56:31 < dongs> Please note that the 16-bit gyroscope’s output data are in 2's complement format (signed
2013-03-11T15:56:34 < dongs> integer) and the typical sensitivity at ±250 dps is 0.00875 dps/LSB from the datasheet.
2013-03-11T15:56:39 < dongs> "from the datasheet"
2013-03-11T15:56:43 < dongs> which doenst actualyl fucking list this
2013-03-11T15:59:34 < dongs> what the hell is 70mdps/digit
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2013-03-11T16:02:29 < dongs> The mdps/digit stands for Milli Degrees Per Second, so (I think) for instance the value of 70 mdps/digit for the 2000 full scale range could be converted to degrees per second by dividing by 1 / 0.07 = 14.286
2013-03-11T16:02:33 < dongs> watu
2013-03-11T16:02:36 < dongs> k
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2013-03-11T17:10:35 < Robint91> how do you guys make a GUI prog for your device
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2013-03-11T17:10:46 < Robint91> that needs to be cross platform
2013-03-11T17:11:46 < Laurenceb> write it in QT
2013-03-11T17:11:53 < Laurenceb> then put uclinux on the stm32
2013-03-11T17:12:00 < Laurenceb> then write a graphics driver
2013-03-11T17:12:04 < Laurenceb> you know it makes sense
2013-03-11T17:12:49 < rigid> who were the quadcopter guys in here?
2013-03-11T17:13:00 < Laurenceb> http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j373/elliotech/japanesarefucked.gif
2013-03-11T17:13:24 -!- NonaSuomy_ [~NonaSuomy@69.158.139.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2013-03-11T17:13:25 < rigid> or could anyone judge wether it's possible to build a quadcopter from 4 CD/DVD-ROM motors?
2013-03-11T17:13:52 < Robint91> Laurenceb, oh god
2013-03-11T17:15:20 < Laurenceb> http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j373/elliotech/simulategunfire-1.jpg
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2013-03-11T17:44:05 < qyx_> rigid: i tried once, they weight more than they are able to lift
2013-03-11T17:44:48 < rigid> qyx_: really? doesn't lifting depend on rotor blade surface/angle?
2013-03-11T17:44:54 < rigid> i mean they are so high rpm
2013-03-11T17:44:58 < qyx_> and motor efficiency
2013-03-11T17:45:06 < qyx_> but low torque
2013-03-11T17:45:12 < rigid> yeah true
2013-03-11T17:45:27 < rigid> hm, maybe a big quadrotor that isn't very agile
2013-03-11T17:45:28 < qyx_> moment, you mean brushed ones or bldc?
2013-03-11T17:45:38 < qyx_> there are two types in cdrom drives
2013-03-11T17:45:43 < rigid> i think they are all brushed in CD roms
2013-03-11T17:45:46 < rigid> ah really? hm
2013-03-11T17:45:59 < qyx_> some drives have bldcs with hall sensors
2013-03-11T17:46:13 < rigid> i don't know... i just thought about dumpster diving for 4 uniform old DVD writers... they are plenty
2013-03-11T17:46:33 < qyx_> i saw on the interwebs that someone rewound the bldc found in cdrom drive and used it on a model plane
2013-03-11T17:46:36 < rigid> ...and doing a project "quadcopter from junk"
2013-03-11T17:46:39 < BJfreeman> not sure they are wound for high rpm
2013-03-11T17:46:51 < rigid> hm
2013-03-11T17:47:06 < rigid> BJfreeman: i guess so, CDs are spinning quite fast these days :)
2013-03-11T17:48:44 < BJfreeman> they look like 2400 rpm
2013-03-11T17:48:59 < qyx_> cds spin up to some 25krmp
2013-03-11T17:49:25 < BJfreeman> not sure the torque they have either
2013-03-11T17:49:37 < qyx_> nearly none, thats true
2013-03-11T17:49:59 < qyx_> hm, no, 56x reading is at about 11200rpm according to wiki
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2013-03-11T17:50:39 < qyx_> http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/461409230/CD_ROM_Motor_RF400.jpg
2013-03-11T17:50:49 < a2cypher> Hey folks.   I had some questions about the EXTI controller in an stm32f103.    Perhaps someone could help.
2013-03-11T17:50:50 < qyx_> rigid: this is the brushed one which you can find in cdrom, that wont work, i tried
2013-03-11T17:51:01 < qyx_> http://www.wrobots.com/surplus/GCS-L48.jpg
2013-03-11T17:51:09 < qyx_> that might work, this is bldc one with halls
2013-03-11T17:51:26 < rigid> yeah, i've seen the latter ones in my old cdrom
2013-03-11T17:51:41 < BJfreeman> hard to do back emf sensing with those
2013-03-11T17:51:48 < rigid> but i have only one... i guess the first ones are only in cheap/very old ones
2013-03-11T17:52:01 < a2cypher> The reference manual lists 19  interrupt sources EXTI0 through EXTI9.    However, when I look at the interrupt vector table there are only EXTI1 through EXTI4.   How are these mapped to actual interrupts ?
2013-03-11T17:52:47 < BJfreeman> the compiler maps them unless you declare a service for them
2013-03-11T17:52:52 < rigid> qyx_: i'll try to get 4 of those and do some tests... i guess I won't get a high performance quadcopter anyway... i want to make my own rotors, which will decrease performance anyway
2013-03-11T17:53:40 < a2cypher> Right,  I want to declare a service for them, but the interrupt table only has four vectors.
2013-03-11T17:53:47 < BJfreeman> experiementing with carbon fiber blades
2013-03-11T17:53:59 < a2cypher> probably something to do with the NVIC for mapping them I guess.
2013-03-11T17:54:53 < BJfreeman> which compiler are you using
2013-03-11T17:55:36 < a2cypher> I'm using the linaro gcc
2013-03-11T17:55:38 < a2cypher> I believe
2013-03-11T17:56:30 < a2cypher> I have the startup files and linker scripts and I see everything the compiler sets up.    But even looking at just the reference manual, I'm not sure how they are mapped.
2013-03-11T17:57:39 < BJfreeman> usually defined in an *interupt*.h file
2013-03-11T17:57:59 < a2cypher> ... obviously
2013-03-11T17:58:24 < a2cypher> but there arent enough interrupts, so there must be a mapping.
2013-03-11T17:58:41 < a2cypher> ok.. figured it out I think.
2013-03-11T17:59:12 < a2cypher> EXTI0 -> EXTI4,  then there is EXTI9_5 and EXTI15_10
2013-03-11T17:59:17 < a2cypher> so the top 10 or so are combined.
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2013-03-11T18:06:02 < BJfreeman> yup so just use #ifdefs to break out the vectors you need
2013-03-11T18:08:12 < karlp_> #ifdefs? you just check the exti flag to see which exti caused it.
2013-03-11T18:08:19 < karlp_> though you only get a single vector
2013-03-11T18:11:15 < BJfreeman> not sure the clock cycle difference between a case and seperate vectors
2013-03-11T18:13:25 < jpa-> what?
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2013-03-11T18:19:56 < Robint91> did someone play with ethernet over USB?
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2013-03-11T18:35:02 < Luggi09> rigid: I don't think that'll work with stock cd-rom motors, you'd have to rewind them
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2013-03-11T19:15:09 < rigid> Luggi09: why? because of lack of torque?
2013-03-11T19:15:54 < rigid> i'm actually not dreaming of a looping-capable quadcopter, just something that is able to stay somewhat airborne
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2013-03-11T19:24:27 < elektrinis> __IO uint16_t CCR3_Val = 13654;
2013-03-11T19:24:34 < elektrinis> what is __IO?
2013-03-11T19:26:53 < rigid> elektrinis: a macro that defines "volatile" ... see core_cm3.h
2013-03-11T19:27:04 < elektrinis> thanks
2013-03-11T19:27:32 < rigid> np
2013-03-11T19:28:08 < elektrinis> stm code is so hard to jump into after simple atmel 8 bit stuff...
2013-03-11T19:28:35 < gxti> once you get it though you'll never go back :p
2013-03-11T19:28:48 < elektrinis> hope so :)
2013-03-11T19:28:59 < elektrinis> I mean I hope that i get it.
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2013-03-11T19:35:54 < elektrinis>   Channel1Pulse = (uint16_t) (((uint32_t) 5 * (TimerPeriod - 1)) / 10);
2013-03-11T19:36:05 < elektrinis> is that a smart way to do on mcu withour FPU?
2013-03-11T19:36:30 < elektrinis> or does compiler takes care of this?
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2013-03-11T19:37:18 < rigid> flyback-: :(
2013-03-11T19:37:45 < rigid> elektrinis: compiler will... it's even hard to do that with FPU since it's no floating point operation ;)
2013-03-11T19:38:08 < rigid> elektrinis: i guess it will eben be 1 cycle if TimerPeriod is constant
2013-03-11T19:38:23 < elektrinis> I see
2013-03-11T19:38:42 < elektrinis> also, I am adding these examples to my project and see amny loops like this:
2013-03-11T19:38:43 < elektrinis>   while (1)
2013-03-11T19:38:43 < elektrinis>   {}
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2013-03-11T19:38:58 < elektrinis> in timer example, is ioled example
2013-03-11T19:39:16 < elektrinis> they are not meant to be run together?
2013-03-11T19:39:20 < rigid> what's wrong with that?
2013-03-11T19:39:46 < rigid> it's the same as "while(true) {}"
2013-03-11T19:39:57 < elektrinis> it will get stuck in one loop without ever reaching another
2013-03-11T19:40:16 < mervaka> while(1);
2013-03-11T19:40:17 < rigid> elektrinis: yes, if you don't have interrupts then you're right
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2013-03-11T19:40:21 < mervaka> is the neatest :)
2013-03-11T19:40:22 < elektrinis> ok.
2013-03-11T19:40:52 < elektrinis> mervaka: sometimes compilers like to throw out these whiles
2013-03-11T19:41:09 < rigid> better use the halt instruction then :)
2013-03-11T19:41:15 < mervaka> elektrinis: how can they optimise it out?
2013-03-11T19:41:15 < elektrinis> :)
2013-03-11T19:41:24 < elektrinis> i don't know
2013-03-11T19:41:38 < mervaka> it's a pretty well known way of halting. no sane compiler would do that, surely?
2013-03-11T19:41:43 < elektrinis> i got into this situation on AVR chip
2013-03-11T19:41:51 < qyx_> while(1); not
2013-03-11T19:41:55 < elektrinis> changed optimization lever and problem went away
2013-03-11T19:42:01 < qyx_> but for (.....) ; yes
2013-03-11T19:42:25 < rigid> elektrinis: welcome to the real world, btw ;)
2013-03-11T19:42:28 < elektrinis> :)
2013-03-11T19:42:30 < rigid> stm32 that is
2013-03-11T19:42:36 < elektrinis> I got it
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2013-03-11T19:42:51 < elektrinis> stm32 has a bit steep learning curve
2013-03-11T19:43:49 < rigid> elektrinis: most are fullblown SoC's ... can't compare them to AVRs, you can use them like 8bit AVRs if you don't use all the gimmicks they provide
2013-03-11T19:44:00 < rigid> but yes, it's a bit harder to get up and running indeed
2013-03-11T19:44:22 < rigid> btw. recently on HaD: http://digital-diy.com/pic-micrcontroller/532-why-i-pick-pic.html <- avr even sucks in comparison to PICs
2013-03-11T19:44:49 < elektrinis> yes, avr suck quite hard lately.
2013-03-11T19:44:53 < rigid> i loled at "The results aren’t that surprising; PIC microcontrollers come out as a better product that no hobbyist uses because no hobbyist uses them."
2013-03-11T19:45:05 < jpa-> rigid: except that the PIC c compilers suck
2013-03-11T19:45:22 < jpa-> and the whole "RISC vs. harvard" comparison there is total bullshit
2013-03-11T19:45:33 < rigid> jpa-: yeah, one critical flaw can suck up the whole technology
2013-03-11T19:45:54 < rigid> AVR wouldn't suck so much if they were half the price
2013-03-11T19:45:55 < Laurenceb> that review is nonsense
2013-03-11T19:45:55 < MrMobius> yeah that was funny
2013-03-11T19:46:18 < jpa-> rigid: where is the cost so critical for a hobbyist?
2013-03-11T19:46:33 < jpa-> $3, $1.5, what's the difference
2013-03-11T19:46:37 < elektrinis> yes, main problem with avr is the price.
2013-03-11T19:46:45 < emeb> Someone here asked for BMP2 gerbers last week. Here they are: http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/embedded/bmp2/bmp2.zip
2013-03-11T19:46:46 < rigid> jpa-: in a free market, cost is always critical
2013-03-11T19:46:46 < qyx_> price?
2013-03-11T19:46:46 < jpa-> no sane hobby project would use 100 AVR processors
2013-03-11T19:46:47 < Laurenceb> the clock speed is a stupid measure
2013-03-11T19:46:57 < Laurenceb> jpa-: wrong
2013-03-11T19:47:02 < Laurenceb> most do
2013-03-11T19:47:06 < elektrinis> noone will use them in big quantity project, while there are so many cheap ARMs around
2013-03-11T19:47:11 < Laurenceb> but then most are insane
2013-03-11T19:47:16 < qyx_> some sort of avr grid?
2013-03-11T19:47:23 < qyx_> something like rpi grid? :X
2013-03-11T19:47:26 < jpa-> elektrinis: most arms are not cheaper
2013-03-11T19:47:54 < elektrinis> value per price of arm is far better
2013-03-11T19:48:02 < rigid> sure they are cheaper
2013-03-11T19:48:15 < jpa-> elektrinis: if you need the value
2013-03-11T19:48:24 < rigid> they don't come in DIP tho :-P
2013-03-11T19:48:36 < elektrinis> who uses DIP :)
2013-03-11T19:48:43 < qyx_> hobbyists
2013-03-11T19:48:46 < rigid> elektrinis: arduino folks :)
2013-03-11T19:48:50 < elektrinis> :)
2013-03-11T19:48:54 < rigid> qyx_: hobbyists who love drilling
2013-03-11T19:49:10 < elektrinis> :))
2013-03-11T19:51:16 < jpa-> cheapest avr on farnell: 0.72 €, cheapest STM32: 1.67 €
2013-03-11T19:51:35 < jpa-> (sure, the STM32 is more powerful, but if you want to blink a led..)
2013-03-11T19:52:23 < emeb> what the world needs is a cortex M0 in an MSOP-8
2013-03-11T19:52:56 < emeb> for like $0.25/ea in qty 100
2013-03-11T19:53:14 < rigid> jpa-: there even are cheaper AVRs ... but also count the minimal dev environment, like ATtiny needs ISPs
2013-03-11T19:53:30 < rigid> is there something cheaper than the STK-500 for avr's yet?
2013-03-11T19:53:31 < jpa-> ISPs?
2013-03-11T19:53:38 < jpa-> ah, of course
2013-03-11T19:53:46 < elektrinis> atmel devtools really suck.
2013-03-11T19:53:47 < jpa-> even arduino can act as an avr programmer
2013-03-11T19:54:08 < rigid> jpa-: in system programmers capable of doing high voltage serial programming... iirc that's needed for the really cheap low-end ATtinys
2013-03-11T19:54:11 < elektrinis> we have a few 'dragons' - terrible.
2013-03-11T19:54:26 < jpa-> rigid: not since many years i think
2013-03-11T19:55:33 < gxti> i don't understand why the AVR community treats "high voltage programming" as something mystical and weird
2013-03-11T19:56:19 < zyp> because the cheap avrisp doesn't do it?
2013-03-11T19:56:34 < gxti> then it's defective
2013-03-11T19:57:01 < zyp> how so?
2013-03-11T19:57:20 < gxti> i guess i shouldn't expect the arduino crowd to understand the value of properly working tools
2013-03-11T19:57:26 < qyx_> rigid: ftdi cable again :>
2013-03-11T19:57:31 < jpa-> i don't understand why the STM32 community treats "single wire trace" as something difficult and weird
2013-03-11T19:57:45 < zyp> :)
2013-03-11T19:57:57 < gxti> because i have no idea how to turn it on :p
2013-03-11T19:58:08 < jpa-> i guess i shouldn't expect the stm32 crowd to understand the value of properly working tools
2013-03-11T19:58:18 < qyx_> rigid: high voltage? why high voltage? never used that even on attiny
2013-03-11T19:58:27 < gxti> i have tools that support it, i just suck at gdb
2013-03-11T19:58:36 < BrainDamage> 5kV programming logic
2013-03-11T19:59:06 < jpa-> the higher the voltage, the easier to debug
2013-03-11T19:59:09 < jpa-> just follow the smoke trail
2013-03-11T19:59:15 < zyp> I watched some coworkers trying to debug stuff with ETM last week
2013-03-11T19:59:38 < gxti> being able to unbrick your mcu is essential imo
2013-03-11T20:00:34 < zyp> I weren't exactly impressed by the user interface
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2013-03-11T20:03:37 < karlp_> emeb: cortex m0 is even in dip8 now, one of nxp wsn't it?
2013-03-11T20:04:04 < MrMobius> thats not out yet though is it?
2013-03-11T20:04:06 < emeb> karlp_: orly?
2013-03-11T20:04:08 < BrainDamage> yes
2013-03-11T20:04:14 < BrainDamage> but it's fucking giant
2013-03-11T20:04:23 < BrainDamage> oh dip8? I knew like dip36
2013-03-11T20:04:30 < BrainDamage> ie boat sized
2013-03-11T20:05:02 < MrMobius> ?
2013-03-11T20:05:04  * emeb looks @ nxp site
2013-03-11T20:05:06 < MrMobius> link?
2013-03-11T20:05:33 < emeb> http://www.nxp.com/products/microcontrollers/cortex_m0_m0/series/LPC800.html#products
2013-03-11T20:05:43 < karlp_> lpc800 yeah
2013-03-11T20:05:46 < karlp_> just got there myself
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2013-03-11T20:05:55 < karlp_> zippe was poking them for something I think
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2013-03-11T20:06:20 < emeb> tssop16 is pretty reasonable size for little stuff.
2013-03-11T20:06:21 < karlp_> dip8, tssop 16/20 and so20
2013-03-11T20:06:34 < emeb> screw dips tho.
2013-03-11T20:06:41 < karlp_> tssop is smaller than so isn't it?
2013-03-11T20:06:45 < emeb> yep
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2013-03-11T20:08:08 < rigid> qyx_: because it has no other programming interface. i'm pretty sure it's needed for ATtiny10 and 11
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2013-03-11T20:08:57 < karlp_> rigid: I thought tiny10 and 11 used PDI rather than ICSP, but it still wasn't high voltage
2013-03-11T20:09:13 < karlp_> HV is only for when you've blown the reset fuse and need to program it again
2013-03-11T20:09:19 < emeb> Oh look at that - full switch matrix so every peripheral I/O can be on any pin.
2013-03-11T20:10:01 < emeb> 3 USARTs, 2 SPI, 1 I2C
2013-03-11T20:10:15 < jpa-> hmm.. could have some neat applications by reconfiguring the pins on the fly :)
2013-03-11T20:10:26 < emeb> true.
2013-03-11T20:10:44 < elektrinis> I am readign not that GPIOs support different speeds. whats that about?
2013-03-11T20:10:46 < emeb> MCHP has had that on some of their newer PIC parts for a few years. It's pretty handy.
2013-03-11T20:11:00 < elektrinis> you can set lower speed to save energy, or what is it?
2013-03-11T20:11:09 < gxti> elektrinis: it's for EMI
2013-03-11T20:11:25 < gxti> if that doesn't make sense to you, just set it to max speed
2013-03-11T20:11:30 < elektrinis> a, so just rise/fall time will be higher?
2013-03-11T20:12:32 < jpa-> yes
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2013-03-11T20:16:05 < qyx_> any recommendation for RF synth? F<1GHz
2013-03-11T20:16:24 < qyx_> last time someone suggested one but i forgot exact part number
2013-03-11T20:16:45 < qyx_> or better
2013-03-11T20:17:03 < qyx_> someone talked about sdr on f3
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2013-03-11T20:21:01 < qyx_> ah, adf4351
2013-03-11T20:21:04 < elektrinis> by the way. ddr1 and ddr2. is the ddr2 backwards compatible with ddr1?
2013-03-11T20:21:11 < qyx_> no
2013-03-11T20:21:15 < elektrinis> i mean can I use a ddr2 chip in a router?
2013-03-11T20:21:27 < qyx_> at least it has different footprint
2013-03-11T20:21:41 < elektrinis> i know that voltage is different
2013-03-11T20:21:52 < elektrinis> footprint can be found the same
2013-03-11T20:22:12 < elektrinis> i have here a module pc3200
2013-03-11T20:22:24 < elektrinis> with 64M chips on it
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2013-03-11T20:22:37 < elektrinis> footprint the same as ddr1 32M in the router
2013-03-11T20:23:03 < qyx_> pin-to-pin compatible?
2013-03-11T20:23:10 < elektrinis> so if externally they are the same and only voltage is different...
2013-03-11T20:23:17 < elektrinis> could not find a datasheet
2013-03-11T20:23:23 < elektrinis> some kind of custom marking
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2013-03-11T20:23:49 < gxti> signs point to no
2013-03-11T20:26:40 < elektrinis> :)
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2013-03-11T20:33:57 < rigid> karlp_: what's PDI?
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2013-03-11T20:37:10 < rigid> it seems new ATtiny10's are even in system programmable
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2013-03-11T21:08:19 < Robint91> where is the stm32f303 ref manual?
2013-03-11T21:09:14 < zyp> st site
2013-03-11T21:09:19 < zyp> it's RM0316
2013-03-11T21:09:19 < Robint91> zyp, nope
2013-03-11T21:09:24 < zyp> sure it is
2013-03-11T21:10:13 < qyx_> hm, isnt
2013-03-11T21:10:15 < Robint91> http://i.imgur.com/Q2iuuYZ.png
2013-03-11T21:10:21 < qyx_> only 37x and 38x
2013-03-11T21:10:55 < Robint91> zyp, do you have a copy?
2013-03-11T21:11:29 < zyp> http://www.stmcu.org/download/index.php?act=down&id=3565
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2013-03-11T21:13:15 < Robint91> thx
2013-03-11T21:14:37 < BJfreeman> RM0316, does seem to be missing after the site update.  RM0316, does seem to be missing after the site update.
2013-03-11T21:14:37 < BJfreeman> http://www.keil.com/dd/docs/datashts/st/stm32f30x/dm00043574.pdf
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2013-03-11T22:23:01 < BJfreeman> make you appreciate your other Bd an better times
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2013-03-11T22:25:46 <+Steffanx> uh what BJfreeman ?
2013-03-11T22:29:07 < BJfreeman> responding to flyback-
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2013-03-11T22:32:49 <+Steffanx> oh, i didn't see that message with all the quit joins
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2013-03-12T01:08:15 < Erlkoenig> why does the stm32f4xx.h file use preprocessor macros for computing values like "GPIOD" or "AHB1PERIPH_BASE"? Why don't they stay with typesafe nice "const" values?
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2013-03-12T01:36:58 <+Steffanx> Ask them Erlkoenig
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2013-03-12T01:41:57 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx: i think i am too afraif of their answer
2013-03-12T01:53:09 <+Steffanx> poor boy
2013-03-12T01:53:27 < Erlkoenig> it might be "compatibility with ancient compilers" or something
2013-03-12T01:53:46 < GargantuaSauce> FEAR IS THE ONLY DARKNESS
2013-03-12T01:54:07 < Erlkoenig> besides the StdPeriph lib, of course
2013-03-12T01:56:29 < emeb> Fear is the mind killer.
2013-03-12T01:57:10 < Erlkoenig> i hereby fearlessly declare war on all of ST's libraries
2013-03-12T02:03:56 <+Steffanx> Nuke em
2013-03-12T02:04:24 < emeb> till they glow & shoot 'em in the dark.
2013-03-12T02:05:44 < dongs> sup trolls
2013-03-12T02:06:04 < emeb> not a lot
2013-03-12T02:06:44 <+Steffanx> Hmm, always the same question dongs?
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2013-03-12T02:56:24 < Erlkoenig> http://couldthishappen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/brain-plug-in.jpg   this kind of plug?
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2013-03-12T04:07:28 < Erlkoenig> it kills bacteria so it's a good thing
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2013-03-12T04:24:46 < dongs> i wonder what kinda connection is that. 8b/10b differential?
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2013-03-12T04:28:01 < emeb> did they use monster cables though?
2013-03-12T04:28:20 < dongs> right thats hte most important part
2013-03-12T04:29:14 < zyp> probably
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2013-03-12T04:49:20 < emeb> My stm32f4 codec board appears in the upper right corner of this video: http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1362804392923
2013-03-12T05:05:00 < dongs> youve got blogged
2013-03-12T05:05:10 < emeb> iknowrite?
2013-03-12T05:07:18 < dongs> the shit hes playing could use being about 2-3x faster though
2013-03-12T05:07:36 < emeb> I'll let him know. :)
2013-03-12T05:07:47 < dongs> turn that bpm knob to 11
2013-03-12T05:08:33 < emeb> here's some other stuff he's done in the past: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKH83EsB2NE
2013-03-12T05:08:38 < emeb> maybe you like that better. :)
2013-03-12T05:09:50 < dongs> lol no.
2013-03-12T05:10:39 < dongs> closed faster than it takes for desktop lunix to crash
2013-03-12T05:10:39 < emeb> Not a big fan of mid-90's industrial?
2013-03-12T05:11:35 < dongs> unless its happyhardcore, forget it
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2013-03-12T05:15:55  * emeb skips through the hhc channel on last.fm...
2013-03-12T05:16:14 < emeb> sounds like really fast trance...
2013-03-12T05:17:19 < dongs> isnt last.fm usa only
2013-03-12T05:17:47 < emeb> wouldn't surprise me. Probably all kinds of regional licensing issues with music.
2013-03-12T05:18:18 < emeb> can you hit this? http://www.last.fm/listen/globaltags/happy%20hardcore
2013-03-12T05:18:39 < dongs> Unfortunately Last.fm is no longer able to offer radio in your country.
2013-03-12T05:18:40 < dongs> Prior to 15th January 2013, Last.fm radio was a subscription only feature. However, due to licensing restrictions, we are no longer able to provide radio streaming, even to subscribers. See our full announcement for more details.
2013-03-12T05:18:44 < dongs> lol
2013-03-12T05:19:02 < zyp> same here
2013-03-12T05:19:09 < emeb> stupid - esp since 90% of that probably comes from offshore anyway.
2013-03-12T05:19:27 < zyp> I used to subscribe for that
2013-03-12T05:19:33 < zyp> a couple of years ago
2013-03-12T05:19:34 < gxti> music licensing is still fucked, surprise surprise
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2013-03-12T05:20:24 < emeb> it's not going to get better until the current generation of execs dies of coke overdoses.
2013-03-12T05:20:37 < dongs> http://cdn.last.fm/flatness/listen_v2/radio_gone.png
2013-03-12T05:21:32 < dongs> thankfully the shit im listening to currently isnt so bad
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2013-03-12T05:32:03 < emeb> diptrace could really use a menu option for copper pours to "update pour".
2013-03-12T05:32:22 < emeb> instead of having to go into the Properties dialog and unpour/pour.
2013-03-12T05:33:26 < zyp> is this a case of «there is a button for that, you just haven't found it» or «wow, that's worse than eagle»?
2013-03-12T05:33:47 < emeb> I did a cursory look for the button but didn't spot it immediately.
2013-03-12T05:34:07 < emeb> Might be a way around it but I'm still a n00b - only been using the tool for 1wk.
2013-03-12T05:34:34 < zyp> :)
2013-03-12T05:35:45 < zyp> hmm, it's getting late
2013-03-12T05:35:58 < emeb> derp - there's an "update" menu option right at the top of the pop-up.
2013-03-12T05:36:00 < emeb> :P
2013-03-12T05:36:10 < zyp> :p
2013-03-12T05:36:21 < emeb> like I said - n00b.
2013-03-12T05:36:27 < emeb> blind n00b at that...
2013-03-12T05:37:22 < emeb> zyp: why are you still awake?
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2013-03-12T05:41:43 < zyp> still sick, so I'll be staying home from work tomorrow, as I did today
2013-03-12T05:41:59 < emeb> Ugh - no fun.
2013-03-12T05:42:48 < zyp> it's «just» a cold, but sitting at work coughing all day is not very tempting
2013-03-12T05:43:39 < zyp> and would probably not be very appreciated by coworkers either
2013-03-12T05:43:52 < emeb> I was about to say something like that.
2013-03-12T05:47:09 < zyp> shouldn't be a problem in any way either, considering the low workload I've had lately, I should easily be able to make up for a couple of days off by the end of the week
2013-03-12T05:47:16 < ds2> just go into work in an NBC suit
2013-03-12T05:47:30 < emeb> You still coming up on the end of your contract?
2013-03-12T05:47:59 < emeb> OK - this is kinda cool: http://txchnologist.com/post/44975129919/spacexs-musk-gives-minute-by-minute-replay-on-saving
2013-03-12T05:48:03 < zyp> I've got out next week
2013-03-12T05:48:19 < emeb> New gig on the horizon?
2013-03-12T05:49:13 < zyp> my company have lots of plans, but I'm not sure exactly what I'll be working with
2013-03-12T05:49:24 < zyp> probably something fun, so I don't care too much :)
2013-03-12T05:49:30 < emeb> nice.
2013-03-12T05:50:22 < emeb> things have been kinda slow for me for the last month too. Got some new stuff coming up though.
2013-03-12T05:50:58 < emeb> ds2: where did you get your NBC suit?
2013-03-12T05:51:28  * emeb was once in an NBC shelter in Israel. Had a hand-cranked forced-air filter - hilarious.
2013-03-12T05:51:34 < ds2> emeb: the same place everyone gets their's
2013-03-12T05:52:59 < ds2> this time change is annoying
2013-03-12T05:53:05 < ds2> everything seems phase shifted
2013-03-12T05:53:27 < emeb> ds2: move to AZ - you can point and laugh while everyone else goes through that.
2013-03-12T05:57:50 < ds2> emeb: problem is the pointing finger would melt in a few months then everyone else would be pointing back
2013-03-12T05:59:07 < emeb> ds2: nah - you'd toughen up fast.
2013-03-12T05:59:22 < ds2> that'd work on someone who hasn't been tehre
2013-03-12T05:59:43 < ds2> ever the hacker space there evokes visions of cooling
2013-03-12T05:59:47 < emeb> I came here from cool, moist Oregon. Now I'm all sunbaked and leathery.
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2013-03-12T06:00:14 < ds2> Oregon can get pretty dry and crispy
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2013-03-12T06:00:48 < emeb> Depends on what part. But yeah - summertime can be fairly dry. Not as dry as here though.
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2013-03-12T06:04:28 < ds2> if I work at it, I can probally find a counter example
2013-03-12T06:05:42 < dongs> TWITTER DOT  COM FORWARD SLASH < SOME UNREADABLE SHIT >
2013-03-12T06:05:47 < dongs> gotta love the way people advertise thier shit
2013-03-12T06:05:59 < dongs> i think if I actually saw someone in person say "foillow me on twitter' i'd probably stab them
2013-03-12T06:07:30 < zyp> dongs, can I follow you on twitter?
2013-03-12T06:12:40 < upgrdman> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLvhMOLKb-o
2013-03-12T06:12:47 < upgrdman> lol
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2013-03-12T06:19:06 < ds2> if a 4 isolated resistor resistor pack is labeled as 1206, does that mean it fits in a 1206 footprint or does that mean it is 4 x 1206 sized?
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2013-03-12T06:25:23 < rigid> 4 resistors in 1206? hm... pretty small
2013-03-12T06:25:25 < rigid> but could be
2013-03-12T06:25:38 < rigid> ds2: why not checkout the footprint?
2013-03-12T06:27:59 < zyp> I would guess it's like four 0603 resistors side by side
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2013-03-12T06:29:01 < ds2> rigid: trying not to do it on every item digikey turns up
2013-03-12T06:29:44 < ds2> looking for resistory packs/arrays for video signals...do not feel like soldering 40 0603's (nor do I ahve room)
2013-03-12T06:30:27 < zyp> then do 40 0402s instead :)
2013-03-12T06:30:46 < zyp> and if that's still too large you could go with 0201s
2013-03-12T06:31:03 < ds2> hmmm 0.125x0.122... donno how that would relate to 1206
2013-03-12T06:31:13 < ds2> no thanks
2013-03-12T06:31:28 < ds2> 0201 might leave me with room, but I want something more logistically management
2013-03-12T06:32:18 < ds2> installed that once on another board and it was not pleasant
2013-03-12T06:33:34 < zyp> I remember having around 50 0402s on the design I did with 0402
2013-03-12T06:34:00 < zyp> that was a fun job assembling,
2013-03-12T06:34:55 < ds2> exactly
2013-03-12T06:35:15 < ds2> ah... figured out...confusing datasheet. 1206 is the physical formfactor
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2013-03-12T07:15:20 < Erlkoenig> is there some machine-readable table for the alternate function mapping, as found in the data sheet?
2013-03-12T07:15:25 < Erlkoenig> like XML or something
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2013-03-12T10:51:03 < solid_li1> I found the first toolchain for Linux that has worked for me for compiling code here: http://dekar.wc3edit.net/2012/10/11/the-power-of-tnt-is-at-your-disposal/
2013-03-12T10:51:17 < dongs> lol
2013-03-12T10:51:20 < solid_li1> now that I have a compiled firmware image, does anybody know how I can send it to the board?
2013-03-12T10:51:35 < dongs> thats funny cuz dekar_ here is the guy who wrote it
2013-03-12T10:51:59 < solid_li1> oh nice
2013-03-12T10:52:14 < solid_li1> yeah, that's where I found the link, actually (the topic)
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2013-03-12T10:52:30 < solid_li1> I had to jump through some hoops to make it work
2013-03-12T10:52:59 < solid_li1> honestly, it would've been much tougher if part of my job at work wasn't compiling arm sdk's for embedded linux  lol
2013-03-12T10:53:16 < dongs> ya this is why i use windows
2013-03-12T10:53:18 < dongs> lunix is a waste of itme
2013-03-12T10:53:36 < solid_li1> pfft, Linux pays my bills
2013-03-12T11:00:29 < baird> That's stlink's job, which was in the reference I gave you yesterday.
2013-03-12T11:01:53 < baird> 1) start stlink, 2) start gdb, 3) tell gdb where stlink's control socket is, 4) load code.elf, run ... Much of the type-in stuff can be put in a .gdbinit
2013-03-12T11:02:36 < solid_li1> okay...
2013-03-12T11:03:30 < baird> https://github.com/cjbaird/stm6502/blob/master/.gdbinit .. another walkthrough: https://github.com/cjbaird/stm6502/blob/master/README
2013-03-12T11:03:32 < solid_li1> I don't see a binary named stlink
2013-03-12T11:04:56 < solid_li1> wait, you need to use rs232?
2013-03-12T11:04:59 < solid_li1> you can't use USB?
2013-03-12T11:05:05 < baird> TNT builds it. By default it's installed as ~/toolchain/bin/stlink
2013-03-12T11:05:18 < baird> No, that's just my project. Look down at the mention of ./stlink
2013-03-12T11:05:49 < baird> ./st-util, I meant..
2013-03-12T11:06:09 < solid_li1> I see st-util and st-flash in there
2013-03-12T11:06:14 < solid_li1> ah hah
2013-03-12T11:07:56 < solid_li1> okay, well, I guess I'll have to finish this when I wake up.  I'm exhausted
2013-03-12T11:08:05 < solid_li1> baird: any other steps I'll need after that?
2013-03-12T11:09:50 < baird> If you don't have that above .gbdinit in the current directory, you'll have to do "target extended-remote :4242" to connect gdb to st-util
2013-03-12T11:10:11 < baird> then, it's "load programwhateveritscalled.elf", and run.
2013-03-12T11:10:41 < solid_li1> baird: alright, awesome, thank you!
2013-03-12T11:11:16 < solid_li1> hopefully I'll get it working tomorrow
2013-03-12T11:11:24 < solid_li1> thanks for all the help
2013-03-12T11:11:27 < solid_li1> night all
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2013-03-12T11:18:32 < Robint91> hi all
2013-03-12T11:27:07 < qyx_> FHT of 4096 element array takes 65ms on F1 :/
2013-03-12T11:29:30 < Robint91> FHT?
2013-03-12T11:30:00 < Robint91> has someone played with kalman filters to denoise gyroscopes?
2013-03-12T11:30:15 < Robint91> http://i.imgur.com/JGResgm.png
2013-03-12T11:30:41 < Robint91> I need a fairly clean angle rate
2013-03-12T11:30:45 < Robint91> without drift
2013-03-12T11:41:41 < BJfreeman> I am using this https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10937
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2013-03-12T12:39:31 < dongs> lol
2013-03-12T12:39:46 < dongs> http://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/MPU6050-InvenSense-Inc/422200/ < bjfreeman's product from non-scam place
2013-03-12T12:45:16 < Laurenceb> nice
2013-03-12T12:45:39 < dongs> better, mpu6k is same price there too
2013-03-12T12:45:49 < dongs> cheapest I seen it in china was like 8.something
2013-03-12T12:45:59 < dongs> i might have to get my pal to buy shit from cdiweb again
2013-03-12T12:46:16 < Laurenceb> http://www.cdiweb.com/Manufacturers/invensense/FP/9-Axis-Motion-Sensing/?type=10082&manf=383&NavType=1
2013-03-12T12:46:27 < dongs> lol
2013-03-12T12:46:28 < dongs> garbage.
2013-03-12T12:46:33 < dongs> but yeah chea
2013-03-12T12:46:33 < dongs> p
2013-03-12T12:46:36 < Laurenceb> cuz i2c?
2013-03-12T12:46:40 < dongs> i2c and shitty mag
2013-03-12T12:46:44 < dongs> that akm thing isnt exactly amazing
2013-03-12T12:46:47 < Laurenceb> yeah
2013-03-12T12:46:54 < dongs> HMC5983 is the best
2013-03-12T12:46:58 < dongs> SPI + 200hz odr
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2013-03-12T13:01:17 < Laurenceb> pity ST dont have a accel+gyro sensor with decent gyro
2013-03-12T13:01:38 < Laurenceb> lsm303d is spi, but its gyro is sucky
2013-03-12T13:01:57 < dongs> Laurenceb: but??? http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1849347 this is oging to be AMazinG
2013-03-12T13:02:49 < Laurenceb> "Arduino is awesome,"
2013-03-12T13:02:53 < Laurenceb> stopped reading there
2013-03-12T13:03:44 < Laurenceb> looks like invensense have some new 6 axis sensors with decent accel
2013-03-12T13:04:26 < Laurenceb> holy shit that board is hardcore
2013-03-12T13:04:33 < dongs> where?
2013-03-12T13:04:49 < Laurenceb> http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/4/6/6/5/8/2/a5606032-228-PCB.jpg
2013-03-12T13:05:15 < Laurenceb> why all the analogue sensors ?!
2013-03-12T13:05:40 < dongs> you mean why all the SHIT analogue sensors
2013-03-12T13:06:01 < Laurenceb> IMU Analog to Digital Converter:
2013-03-12T13:06:01 < Laurenceb> ADS1256
2013-03-12T13:06:01 < Laurenceb> 24 bit (Precise up to 10 cm for barometer’s sampling).
2013-03-12T13:06:05 < Laurenceb> bullshit
2013-03-12T13:06:14 < Laurenceb> more like 24bits of noise
2013-03-12T13:06:29 < dongs> exactly
2013-03-12T13:06:37 < dongs> that adc is mega old too
2013-03-12T13:06:45 < dongs> its like from 2005
2013-03-12T13:06:46 < dongs> or someshit
2013-03-12T13:07:38 < karlp_> mega old
2013-03-12T13:07:49 < karlp_> cortex-m is how old now?
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2013-03-12T13:08:00 < Laurenceb> lol
2013-03-12T13:08:40 < dongs> that AT91RM shit is fucking old too
2013-03-12T13:08:46 < dongs> isnt it like armv5 or someshit
2013-03-12T13:08:47 < dongs> not even fpu
2013-03-12T13:08:50 < dongs> fucking worthless
2013-03-12T13:09:06 < dongs> STM32F472 or wahtever w/sdram probably beats that atmel shitheap
2013-03-12T13:09:09 < dongs> AND has better peripherals
2013-03-12T13:09:13 < dongs> they have some useless altera fpga on there
2013-03-12T13:09:17 < dongs> for PWM i/o
2013-03-12T13:09:21 < dongs> probably cuz atmel pwm sucks cock
2013-03-12T13:09:59 < Laurenceb> mpu-6100 accel still sucks :(
2013-03-12T13:10:06 < Laurenceb> i was hoping they had fixed it
2013-03-12T13:10:34 < Laurenceb> lolz @ fpga for pwm
2013-03-12T13:11:55 < Laurenceb> hehe http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/en/fragment/sales_and_marketing/banner/homepage_banner/SuperMesh_B_blank.jpg
2013-03-12T13:12:18 < Laurenceb> he might be there for a while
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2013-03-12T13:18:35 < Laurenceb> interesting
2013-03-12T13:18:45 < Laurenceb> lsm330d specs are very similar to l3g20
2013-03-12T13:19:07 < Laurenceb> but my lsm330d is rather sucky if it gets rate spikes
2013-03-12T13:19:26 < Laurenceb> i think they redesigned the DSP
2013-03-12T13:19:36 < Laurenceb> fixing the buggy FIFO as well
2013-03-12T13:26:47 < Robint91> dongs, the STM32F4 is around 2.5 times faster as the AT91RM9200
2013-03-12T13:27:47 < Robint91> Laurenceb, mhh how do you get rid of the gyro drift.
2013-03-12T13:27:50 < Robint91> *?
2013-03-12T13:28:14 < Laurenceb> you dont with an l3gd20  :P
2013-03-12T13:28:22 < Laurenceb> cuz it hardly drifts
2013-03-12T13:28:27 < Robint91> Laurenceb, it drifs
2013-03-12T13:28:35 < Laurenceb> otherwise you need an offset estimator
2013-03-12T13:29:04 < Robint91> Laurenceb, it drifts when you intergrate it
2013-03-12T13:29:33 < Laurenceb> of course
2013-03-12T13:29:44 < Laurenceb> you cant just integrate gyro to get attitude
2013-03-12T13:29:50 < Robint91> http://i.imgur.com/NHuhNHf.png
2013-03-12T13:29:59 < Robint91> see blue is the intergral of the gyro
2013-03-12T13:30:09 < Laurenceb> looks about right
2013-03-12T13:30:11 < Robint91> green is data from an accelero meter
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2013-03-12T13:33:48 < Robint91> Laurenceb, but I don't know how to put all the data together to get a nice angle rate output
2013-03-12T13:34:05 < Laurenceb> im too lazy to explain
2013-03-12T13:37:49 < donigs> Robint91: because cortex vs armv5?
2013-03-12T13:38:07 < Robint91> donigs, yes
2013-03-12T13:38:22 < Robint91> donigs, more thumb2 vs arm
2013-03-12T13:38:24 < donigs> but i thought at91 has mmu and can run teh lunix
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2013-03-12T13:39:03 < donigs> alsO: 16k i/d cache
2013-03-12T13:39:06 < donigs> doesnt cortex has zero
2013-03-12T13:39:11 < donigs> thats ought to count for something, nmo?
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2013-03-12T13:39:37 < Laurenceb> you can run lunatic os on cortex m4
2013-03-12T13:39:57 < Robint91> donigs, not really, cache is only needed when you are working form a slow memory
2013-03-12T13:40:06 < Robint91> donigs, the F4 has ART
2013-03-12T13:40:16 < Robint91> and a wide flash acess path
2013-03-12T13:40:19 < Laurenceb> thats a for a cache
2013-03-12T13:40:23 < Laurenceb> *form
2013-03-12T13:42:09 < Laurenceb> http://www.emcraft.com/uCLinux/index.php/products/89
2013-03-12T13:42:56 < baird> fap fap
2013-03-12T13:43:50 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: olasd, dongs, ABLomas, Posterdati
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2013-03-12T13:55:33 < donigs> Note further that the evaluation kit does not include an STM3240G-EVAL board. Please purchase the board from STmicroelectronics or its distributors.
2013-03-12T13:55:54 < baird> Looks like Real Linux, not uCLinux.
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2013-03-12T14:00:04 < donigs> looks like real FAIL to me
2013-03-12T14:11:03 <+Steffanx> Ah, now i know why dongs is so anti-buttcoin. He MADE it
2013-03-12T14:11:42 <+Steffanx> As the one or the group is one big troll ( and says to be from japan )
2013-03-12T14:12:21 <+Steffanx> *As the one or group behind it
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2013-03-12T14:21:50 < dongs> http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/simgad/12632004377926651307
2013-03-12T14:22:40 <+Steffanx> Something wrong, button doesnt work :(
2013-03-12T14:22:45 <+Steffanx> My download logic is broken
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2013-03-12T18:04:50 < Laurenceb> http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23041170.jpg
2013-03-12T18:06:21 < Erlkoenig> is there some machine-readable table for the alternate function mapping, as found in the data sheet?
2013-03-12T18:06:21 < Erlkoenig> like XML or something
2013-03-12T18:07:43 <+Steffanx> Not that i know of
2013-03-12T18:09:15 <+Steffanx> Perhaps the MicroXplorer tool from st has it for you Erlkoenig ?
2013-03-12T18:10:45 < Erlkoenig> hmmm maybe... thanks for the hint... meh windows software...
2013-03-12T18:11:08 <+Steffanx> I downloaded it
2013-03-12T18:11:15 <+Steffanx> there is an xml with all kind of info about hte pins
2013-03-12T18:11:20 <+Steffanx> Can zip it for you?
2013-03-12T18:11:57 < Erlkoenig> yeah that would be totally awesome :D
2013-03-12T18:12:10 <+Steffanx> win xp in vm ftw :)
2013-03-12T18:12:29 < Erlkoenig> hehe... sounds handy ^^
2013-03-12T18:12:39 <+Steffanx> uploadink
2013-03-12T18:13:42 <+Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/MicroXplorer.zip
2013-03-12T18:13:47 <+Steffanx> Is evertything
2013-03-12T18:13:56 <+Steffanx> the dir 'db' has the interesting stuff
2013-03-12T18:14:38 < Erlkoenig> aaah great thanks a lot :D
2013-03-12T18:14:42 <+Steffanx> Hmm, it's java
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2013-03-12T18:15:04 <+Steffanx> Works on os x too, so it probably also works under linux
2013-03-12T18:15:33 < Erlkoenig> lulz... but a setup.exe
2013-03-12T18:15:46 <+Steffanx> Yeah, don't ask
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2013-03-12T18:19:53 <+Steffanx> That tool even does code generation
2013-03-12T18:20:23 < Erlkoenig> yuck :D
2013-03-12T18:20:44 <+Steffanx> cmsis/stm32 peripheral lib style :D
2013-03-12T18:20:49 < Erlkoenig> wah.
2013-03-12T18:20:58 < Erlkoenig> last night i decided to write my own supernice C++ Periph Lib
2013-03-12T18:21:14 < Erlkoenig> it allows the compiler to check correct use of alternate functions and stuff
2013-03-12T18:21:17 <+Steffanx> Drunk?
2013-03-12T18:21:22 < Erlkoenig> no, rage
2013-03-12T18:21:38 < Erlkoenig> nobody can stop me
2013-03-12T18:22:05 <+Steffanx> The uc selector does look 100 times better than the parametric table online
2013-03-12T18:22:38 < Erlkoenig> "just buy the thickest one" :D
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2013-03-12T18:23:17 <+Steffanx> http://share.naffets.nl/a-20130312-172257.jpg .. just as clear as it should be imho
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2013-03-12T18:24:16 <+Steffanx> except that it doesn't show flash/ram
2013-03-12T18:24:21 < Erlkoenig> woah, nice
2013-03-12T18:24:35 < Erlkoenig> jpg for screenshot, mac user
2013-03-12T18:24:36 < Erlkoenig> :P
2013-03-12T18:24:47 <+Steffanx> What do you want?
2013-03-12T18:24:48 <+Steffanx> png?
2013-03-12T18:24:55 <+Steffanx> pdf?
2013-03-12T18:25:03 <+Steffanx> bmp?
2013-03-12T18:25:14 < Robint91> Steffanx, http://share.naffets.nl
2013-03-12T18:25:15 < Robint91> -_-
2013-03-12T18:25:37 <+Steffanx> http://share.naffets.nl/a-20130312-172511.svg there ya go Erlkoenig
2013-03-12T18:25:49 < Erlkoenig> harhar
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2013-03-12T18:26:01 < Erlkoenig> i think png is the usual selection ^^
2013-03-12T18:26:08 <+Steffanx> Haha Robint91.
2013-03-12T18:26:09 < Erlkoenig> because lossless & compressed
2013-03-12T18:26:25 <+Steffanx> and not very good with that background i use
2013-03-12T18:26:36 <+Steffanx> i think that's even a standard os x background
2013-03-12T18:26:48 < Erlkoenig> what? what does PNG have to do with your background? Oo
2013-03-12T18:27:05 <+Steffanx> png .. not made for photo-ish stuff
2013-03-12T18:27:15 <+Steffanx> ( i NEVER see my background so never bothered to change it )
2013-03-12T18:28:13 < Erlkoenig> yeah but PNG is at least as good as JPG, just bigger files possibly
2013-03-12T18:28:29 < Erlkoenig> it just directly gives what you see on the screen
2013-03-12T18:28:33 < Erlkoenig> as in "lossless"
2013-03-12T18:28:51 < zyp> Steffanx, aren't you using the built in screenshot function?
2013-03-12T18:29:11 < Erlkoenig> but whatever... the MicroXplorer works even in linux using java ^^
2013-03-12T18:32:01 < Erlkoenig> "Can't you feel the peace and contentment in this block of code? Ruby is the language Buddha would have programmed in."
2013-03-12T18:33:17 < zyp> 17:21:14 < Erlkoenig> it allows the compiler to check correct use of alternate functions and stuff
2013-03-12T18:33:20 < zyp> how?
2013-03-12T18:33:45 < zyp> I considered doing that with mine once, but it turned out to be more hassle than worth it
2013-03-12T18:34:17 < Erlkoenig> every physical pin gets an instance of a "Pin" class with template arguments, so every pin has its type indicating what AF's it supports... and then you can only enable AF's on a pin with the correct type
2013-03-12T18:34:52 < Erlkoenig> http://games.2g2s.de/git/?p=stm32;a=blob;f=src/stmplus/gpio.hh;h=d3b9184f6dd413f8c52c68f18eef43e7e5542a6b;hb=refs/heads/fse
2013-03-12T18:34:56 < Erlkoenig> not finished yet
2013-03-12T18:35:15 < Erlkoenig> as you see at the bottom, the Pin's type contains information about what AF's it supports
2013-03-12T18:35:40 < zyp> that's sort of what I attempted
2013-03-12T18:35:53 < Erlkoenig> STM32::AF::TIM4& timAF = STM32::GPIO::D12;       then you can e.g. do this
2013-03-12T18:36:06 < Erlkoenig> i.e. request a pin that has TIM4's AF
2013-03-12T18:36:16 < Erlkoenig> if you wrote: STM32::AF::TIM9& timAF = STM32::GPIO::D12;      you'd get a compiler error
2013-03-12T18:36:47 < Erlkoenig> so you would use STM32::AF::TIM4& timAF      as a parameter type for some function that sets up TIM4 for a pin given via argument
2013-03-12T18:36:51 < Erlkoenig> -timAF
2013-03-12T18:38:15 < Erlkoenig> also note that you can write:   STM32::GPIO::D12.clock.on ();   to enable D12's clock
2013-03-12T18:38:41 < Robint91> Erlkoenig, -_-
2013-03-12T18:38:49 < Erlkoenig> sorry
2013-03-12T18:39:07 < Robint91> Erlkoenig, this has gone to far
2013-03-12T18:39:45 < Erlkoenig> you don't have to use it
2013-03-12T18:40:08 < Erlkoenig> it's btw even more space/cpu-efficient then using the StdPeriph lib
2013-03-12T18:40:32 < karlp> because that's more important MY EYES MY EYES :::::: EVERYWHERE
2013-03-12T18:40:38 < zyp> sure, it's pretty much similar to my lib, except for the AF stuff
2013-03-12T18:41:05 < zyp> but I don't really get how the AF stuff is working
2013-03-12T18:41:05 < Erlkoenig> karlp: yeah, namespaces & scoping... better than #define everywhere
2013-03-12T18:41:10 < Erlkoenig> maaaaaagic
2013-03-12T18:41:18 < zyp> 17:35:53 < Erlkoenig> STM32::AF::TIM4& timAF = STM32::GPIO::D12;       then you can e.g. do this
2013-03-12T18:41:34 < Erlkoenig> wanna integrate that into laks? :D
2013-03-12T18:41:42 < zyp> how does the type of GPIO::D12 cast into AF::TIM4?
2013-03-12T18:42:23 < Erlkoenig> via "inline constexpr operator const Pin<t>& () {"    in line 61
2013-03-12T18:43:05 < zyp> and how do you handle peripherals that can be on different pins?
2013-03-12T18:43:27 < Erlkoenig> the programmer has to specify what pin he wants... via STM32::GPIO::D12 or whatever
2013-03-12T18:43:52 < zyp> sorry, I meant different AF numbers on different pins
2013-03-12T18:43:53 < Erlkoenig> the library only checks if the specified pin can be used for the periphal
2013-03-12T18:44:14 < Erlkoenig> hm at least on my F4 this doesn't happen
2013-03-12T18:44:23 < Erlkoenig> but that shouldn't matter for this
2013-03-12T18:44:26 < zyp> sure it does
2013-03-12T18:44:35 < Erlkoenig> hmm, really? where?
2013-03-12T18:44:44 < zyp> hang on, I'm looking it up
2013-03-12T18:44:49 < Erlkoenig> but wait
2013-03-12T18:44:53 < Erlkoenig> that's impossible
2013-03-12T18:45:13 < Erlkoenig> even the StdPeriph assumes that e.g. TIM4 AF is always AF number 2 for every pin or something
2013-03-12T18:45:29 < Erlkoenig> because it's hard-#defined
2013-03-12T18:45:44 < zyp> yes, I remember someone that got burned on that once
2013-03-12T18:45:55 < zyp> because it's not always true
2013-03-12T18:46:00 < Erlkoenig> oh yey
2013-03-12T18:46:07 < Erlkoenig> but that doesn't matter for this part
2013-03-12T18:46:19 < Erlkoenig> the numbers in the gpio.hh file have no relation to actual AF numbers
2013-03-12T18:47:04 < zyp> how come that TIM3 == TIM4 == TIM5 then? :p
2013-03-12T18:47:22 < zyp> don't try denying that you tried mimicing the actual AF numbers :p
2013-03-12T18:47:26 < Erlkoenig> because a pin can ONLY have one of them connected
2013-03-12T18:47:38 < Erlkoenig> yeah i will change these numbers that's just the first try
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2013-03-12T18:47:49 < Erlkoenig> i will make numbers for TIM3_CH2 and such
2013-03-12T18:49:20 < zyp> sounds like you're gonna run out of bits :)
2013-03-12T18:49:35 < Erlkoenig> then i'll user uint128_t or something ;)
2013-03-12T18:50:14 < Erlkoenig> template <typename T>  using IO = volatile T;              this is the best part...  so IO<uint32_t>   gets transformed to "volatile uint32_t"  by a nice C++-fashion, avoiding #define
2013-03-12T18:50:41 < zyp> huh?
2013-03-12T18:50:44 < Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_Sitchin#Ideas_and_works
2013-03-12T18:50:46 < Laurenceb> i lolled
2013-03-12T18:50:54 < zyp> why not just write volatile?
2013-03-12T18:51:43 < Erlkoenig> because one might want to change it later or whatever... the StdPeriph lib and CMSIS use "#define __IO volatile" and "__IO uint32_t registername" ... i disliked the #define but wanted to keep the central "volatile"
2013-03-12T18:53:41 < Erlkoenig> well that doesn't matter much... but found it to be a nice example about how to avoid #define ^^
2013-03-12T18:53:57 < zyp> oh, by the way, I found the pin I were talking about
2013-03-12T18:54:04 < zyp> I2S3ext_SD
2013-03-12T18:54:16 < zyp> it's on AF7 on PB4 and AF6 on PC11
2013-03-12T18:54:37 < Erlkoenig> ... great. what chip?
2013-03-12T18:54:40 < zyp> F4
2013-03-12T18:55:17 < Erlkoenig> so one of AF7 or AF6 must be undocumented
2013-03-12T18:55:54 <+Steffanx> no, i don't use that zyp
2013-03-12T18:55:58 < Erlkoenig> but thanks... i will look out for such errors ^^
2013-03-12T18:56:00 <+Steffanx> the built-in screenshot stuff
2013-03-12T18:56:04 < zyp> Erlkoenig, refer to http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-01-06.html#19:25:26
2013-03-12T18:56:38 < Erlkoenig> weird...
2013-03-12T18:56:45 < Erlkoenig> looks like ST succeeded one more time
2013-03-12T18:57:27 < zyp> oh, that's nothing
2013-03-12T18:57:38 < Erlkoenig> hehe...
2013-03-12T18:57:48 < zyp> you should see the lpc43xx AF map
2013-03-12T18:58:49 < Erlkoenig> better not :D
2013-03-12T18:58:54 < zyp> http://paste.jvnv.net/view/Awxwi
2013-03-12T18:59:59 < zyp> each pin have an 8-function mux, GPIO is one of them, and moves around depending on pin
2013-03-12T19:00:03 < zyp> R is reserved
2013-03-12T19:00:23 < zyp> and GPIO numbering doesn't follow pin numbering at all
2013-03-12T19:00:34 < Erlkoenig> sadistic devs
2013-03-12T19:00:49 < zyp> it's a clusterfuck compared to stm32 :p
2013-03-12T19:01:41 < Erlkoenig> i want a µC where every AF can be used on every Pin... total routing ^^
2013-03-12T19:01:57 <+Steffanx> Can't you make some fancy compile stuff that parses the xml and does the magic for you Erlkoenig ? :)
2013-03-12T19:02:17 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx: theoretically... if you want infinite compile times :P
2013-03-12T19:02:38 < Erlkoenig> ima parsing the xml with ruby now and genearting the C++ cod
2013-03-12T19:02:40 < Erlkoenig> e
2013-03-12T19:02:42 < Laurenceb> Erlkoenig: like silabs?
2013-03-12T19:02:44 < Laurenceb>  :P
2013-03-12T19:02:57 < Erlkoenig> that exists? nice ^
2013-03-12T19:03:10 <+Steffanx> Oh, even more awful Erlkoenig
2013-03-12T19:03:20 <+Steffanx> ruby, generating code. Where did it go wrong?
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2013-03-12T19:03:48 < Erlkoenig> i think this is like "okay"
2013-03-12T19:04:05 <+Steffanx> Just as ok as that generated code from.. dont remember
2013-03-12T19:04:08 <+Steffanx> openpilot or so?
2013-03-12T19:04:10 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb knows
2013-03-12T19:04:14 < gxti> of course it's possible, but it costs money. and performance, probably.
2013-03-12T19:04:19 < Laurenceb> huh?
2013-03-12T19:04:19 <+Steffanx> the generated kalman filter code?
2013-03-12T19:04:25 < Laurenceb> openpilot
2013-03-12T19:04:33 < Laurenceb> made with matlab
2013-03-12T19:04:45 <+Steffanx> Yeah, that is the most wonderful generated code EVER
2013-03-12T19:04:46 < Erlkoenig> the code just generates "flat stupid data" so no fancy stuff
2013-03-12T19:04:52 < gxti> just use a fpga, then you can make your own peripherals. you don't need more than 50mhz anyway, amirite?
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2013-03-12T19:05:03 < emeb> +1
2013-03-12T19:05:04 < Erlkoenig> with an fpga... no ^^
2013-03-12T19:05:38 <+Steffanx> -1
2013-03-12T19:05:40 <+Steffanx> =0
2013-03-12T19:06:07 < Laurenceb> œ
2013-03-12T19:06:18 <+Steffanx> utf8 magic
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2013-03-12T19:19:14 < Robint91> -_-
2013-03-12T19:19:55 <+Steffanx> Robint91's favourite emoticon
2013-03-12T19:20:28 < jpa-> he's building up the depression - good work!
2013-03-12T19:20:54 < Robint91> who can help my depression with kalman filters?
2013-03-12T19:21:15 <+Steffanx> jpa-
2013-03-12T19:21:19 < jpa-> i can teach you but i'd have to charge
2013-03-12T19:21:33 < jpa-> unless you offer me some milkshake
2013-03-12T19:21:45 <+Steffanx> milkshake in coldish finland?
2013-03-12T19:21:50 < jpa-> sure
2013-03-12T19:21:57 < jpa-> besides, it's getting warm now
2013-03-12T19:21:57 < Robint91> jpa-, http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/three-milkshakes.jpg
2013-03-12T19:22:26 < Robint91> jpa-, I have some problems with the A matrix
2013-03-12T19:22:41 < Laurenceb> http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/44577/1186670956/milkshake.gif
2013-03-12T19:23:05 < jpa-> Robint91: what is A for you?
2013-03-12T19:23:07 < Robint91> I have two states , (Theta and dTheta)
2013-03-12T19:23:34 < Robint91> jpa-, at the moment [[1 1]; [0 -1]]
2013-03-12T19:23:47 < jpa-> what does A mean for you? measurement model? process model?
2013-03-12T19:24:21 < Robint91> process model
2013-03-12T19:24:29 < Robint91> the system matrix
2013-03-12T19:24:29 < jpa-> because i'm familiar with the notation   y = measurement, H = measurement model, x = state, F = process model, P = covariance    
2013-03-12T19:24:30 < jpa-> ok
2013-03-12T19:24:41 < jpa-> go on
2013-03-12T19:25:01 < Robint91> I use this notation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_space_representation
2013-03-12T19:25:35 < jpa-> ok.. are you doing continuous or discrete kalman filter then?
2013-03-12T19:25:36 < Robint91> jpa-, I have a gyro axis, and two accelerometer axis where I calculate a angle
2013-03-12T19:25:45 < Robint91> discrete
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2013-03-12T19:27:25 < Robint91> I'm trying to filter out the drift of the gyroscope
2013-03-12T19:27:50 < Robint91> but I only for my application the rate
2013-03-12T19:27:57 < Robint91> instead of the absolute angle
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2013-03-12T19:29:32 < jpa-> Robint91: hmm.. so why do you care about the drift?
2013-03-12T19:30:00 < Robint91> jpa-, it is used at the end to intergrate
2013-03-12T19:30:09 < Robint91> but I can't control that intergrator
2013-03-12T19:30:20 < Robint91> It is use as a computer mice
2013-03-12T19:30:23 < Robint91> *used
2013-03-12T19:30:26 < jpa-> ah, ok
2013-03-12T19:30:45 < jpa-> i assume your dTheta state is the estimated drift?
2013-03-12T19:31:20 < Robint91> yes
2013-03-12T19:32:27 < jpa-> hmm.. so do you have a problem?
2013-03-12T19:33:12 < Robint91> jpa-, don't know how to start on the A/F matrix and B/H matrix
2013-03-12T19:33:38 < Robint91> so theta is the angle rate?
2013-03-12T19:34:08 < jpa-> theta in the state is the absolute angle
2013-03-12T19:34:39 < jpa-> your states are    "the orientation of the device"   and   "the offset in the gyro reading"
2013-03-12T19:35:00 < jpa-> because those are the two things that you assume will change slowly
2013-03-12T19:35:07 < Robint91> jpa-, yes
2013-03-12T19:35:36 < jpa-> depending on your device, you might want to have "angular rate" there also, but when you say that this is to be used as a mouse i think the angular rate may change very fast as the user turns the mouse
2013-03-12T19:36:27 < jpa-> (and an important point is that the gyro signal gives you information on how the orientation changes, but nothing gives information on how the rate changes, just what it is currently)
2013-03-12T19:36:33 < jpa-> so your states seem fine to me
2013-03-12T19:36:43 < Robint91> jpa-, so fast things you don't want to have in the states?
2013-03-12T19:37:43 < jpa-> that is somewhat of a simplification, but kind of yeah
2013-03-12T19:37:54 < jpa-> kalman filter is just a fancy way of averaging stuff over time
2013-03-12T19:38:08 < jpa-> so if you average something that changes quickly, you'll lose information
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2013-03-12T19:38:35 < Robint91> jpa-, okay, got it, so what do I use a input to the kalman filter
2013-03-12T19:38:40 < jpa-> the Theta here is a different beast, because even though it will change quickly, you also have the gyro input to update the estimate
2013-03-12T19:39:11 < Robint91> jpa-, I think I could have to use the accelero as measurement?
2013-03-12T19:39:20 < Robint91> and the other gyro as input to the system
2013-03-12T19:39:24 < jpa-> Robint91: you could use directly the accelerometer (X and Y) values and the gyro rate.. or you could use the angle you have computed from accelerometer and the gyro rate
2013-03-12T19:39:49 < Robint91> jpa-, I do an atan now
2013-03-12T19:39:53 < Robint91> to get the real angle
2013-03-12T19:40:05 < jpa-> ok, we can use that because it makes the kalman filter a bit simpler
2013-03-12T19:40:50 < jpa-> first you were asking about the A matrix, i.e. process model; AFAIK in this case it should be just  [1, 0; 0, 1]  because you don't expect the state to change "by itself"
2013-03-12T19:41:41 < jpa-> (if there were "velocity" and "position" there, then the position would change depending on velocity.. but because drift doesn't affect the real angle, the A matrix is just identity)
2013-03-12T19:43:03 < jpa-> hmm.. i don't like the representation there.. can we use this representation instead?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalman_filter#Details
2013-03-12T19:43:16 < Robint91> yeah
2013-03-12T19:43:19 < Robint91> no problem
2013-03-12T19:43:23 < jpa-> so F = identity
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2013-03-12T19:44:38 < Robint91> oaky
2013-03-12T19:44:40 < Robint91> *okay
2013-03-12T19:45:05 < jpa-> now.. there is the thing that there are two kinds of measurements in kalman filters, "controls" and "measurements".. the former are "something that affects the state", while the latter are "something affected by the state"
2013-03-12T19:45:51 < jpa-> in this case, your gyro rate is actually a control input, because it changes the Theta, but the value of Theta doesn't matter to the gyro rate
2013-03-12T19:46:00 < jpa-> argh
2013-03-12T19:46:01 < jpa-> no
2013-03-12T19:46:12 < jpa-> dTheta affects gyro rate.. forget
2013-03-12T19:46:31 < jpa-> you have no control inputs :)
2013-03-12T19:47:02 < jpa-> so B and u go away, they are just zeroes
2013-03-12T19:47:53 < jpa-> Q is the amount of random changes you expect.. that is a bit of a guess work, because it depends on the noise etc. in your gyro
2013-03-12T19:48:22 < jpa-> H is the measurement model, i.e. "if you know the state, how do you get the measurements"
2013-03-12T19:48:25 < Robint91> jpa-, yeah Q and R are a little trail and error
2013-03-12T19:48:33 < Robint91> *H
2013-03-12T19:48:45 < jpa-> H is not guesswork :)
2013-03-12T19:48:52 < jpa-> but yeah, R is
2013-03-12T19:49:00 < Robint91> I mean R
2013-03-12T19:49:36 < jpa-> now with H there comes a tiny problem, because you cannot get gyro state directly from your state..
2013-03-12T19:50:19 < jpa-> bah.. should you integrate the gyro stuff first? how do i know :)
2013-03-12T19:50:44 < Laurenceb> you use the gyro stuff as part of the predict
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2013-03-12T19:51:01 < Laurenceb> in practice its a little unlike the theoretical kalman filter
2013-03-12T19:51:04 < jpa-> Laurenceb: but how do you take the drift state variable into account then?
2013-03-12T19:51:21 < Laurenceb> its incorporated as model noise
2013-03-12T19:51:31 < Laurenceb> i think you might need an extra jacobian there..
2013-03-12T19:51:38 < Laurenceb> i forget, check my code on ukhas
2013-03-12T19:51:41 < jpa-> but he wants to estimate the drift
2013-03-12T19:52:13 < Laurenceb> that estimate will be part of the covar
2013-03-12T19:52:34 < Laurenceb> gtg, bbl
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2013-03-12T19:55:27 < jpa-> the classic IMU approach would be to integrate the gyro output and then try to estimate the error in the gyro integral
2013-03-12T19:56:54 < Robint91> jpa-, I have seen that a lot of things just go away in the equations
2013-03-12T19:57:09 < jpa-> they do, and it is normal
2013-03-12T19:57:38 < jpa-> especially it is very common to have a process model be an identity matrix
2013-03-12T19:57:50 < Robint91> jpa-, I have the feeling that even the covariance doesn't change
2013-03-12T19:57:59 < jpa-> it does
2013-03-12T19:58:15 < jpa-> the Q is practically always non-zero
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2013-03-12T19:58:57 < jpa-> because there is always some uncertainties, temperature variations etc. that change the drift
2013-03-12T19:58:57 < BJfreeman> also there is a chip that physically and programically integrates the gyro, accellorometer, and magnamometer with a Uc that give fairly accurate readings
2013-03-12T19:59:33 < zyp> MPU6000?
2013-03-12T20:00:22 < BJfreeman> yes
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2013-03-12T20:00:33 < zyp> I hear it's so-so
2013-03-12T20:01:00 < BJfreeman> I am testing it now, results are non conclusive
2013-03-12T20:01:19 < zyp> letting someone else than you handle the math doesn't make it better
2013-03-12T20:01:34 < Robint91> jpa-, how do then the data from the gyro and acc into the filter
2013-03-12T20:01:57 < jpa-> Robint91: it is a good question :D
2013-03-12T20:01:58 < Robint91> jpa-, with the measurement residual?
2013-03-12T20:02:27 < Robint91> jpa-, is the a NIMO system?
2013-03-12T20:02:33 < jpa-> Robint91: the stuff you input there is just the z vector
2013-03-12T20:02:37 < Robint91> none inputs , multiple outputs
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2013-03-12T20:02:56 < jpa-> sure there must be inputs
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2013-03-12T20:03:39 < jpa-> but i'm not familiar with this "state space representatation" stuff, on our course the kalman filter was taught from a bayesian estimation viewpoint
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2013-03-12T20:09:00 < Robint91> jpa-, some test, http://i.imgur.com/49naesf.png, blue output, green input
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2013-03-12T20:09:34 < jpa-> Robint91: you could get reasonable results with a simple complementary filter
2013-03-12T20:10:08 < Robint91> jpa-, I should try to go that way?
2013-03-12T20:10:17 < Robint91> using complementary filters?
2013-03-12T20:10:26 < jpa-> it would be simpler, and i don't think you necessarily need a full kalman filter here
2013-03-12T20:11:13 < jpa-> (it would basically reduce to a complementary filter anyway, except with dynamically varying parameters)
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2013-03-12T20:23:38 < elektrinis> can anyone comment on this?
2013-03-12T20:23:39 < elektrinis> http://pastebin.com/fudZnFPr
2013-03-12T20:23:59 < elektrinis> I was used to #include IOToggle.h
2013-03-12T20:24:13 < elektrinis> but here I see void IOToggle(void)
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2013-03-12T20:24:32 < jpa-> ask dongs, he is the expect on cock issues
2013-03-12T20:24:33 < elektrinis> can't understang how it works :(
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2013-03-12T20:24:45 < jpa-> elektrinis: well what does iotoggle.h contain?
2013-03-12T20:25:32 < elektrinis> there does not seem to be such file
2013-03-12T20:25:54 < elektrinis> I mean I am new to stm32 and my C skills are not great.
2013-03-12T20:26:14 < jpa-> the #include statement just includes a line
2013-03-12T20:26:15 < elektrinis> earlier I was including a header file before any function could be used.
2013-03-12T20:26:31 < jpa-> i bet it just had that   void IOToggle(void);   declaration in that file
2013-03-12T20:26:32 < elektrinis> and in this example there are no includes
2013-03-12T20:26:38 < jpa-> now it is written directly there - so no difference
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2013-03-12T20:33:32 < elektrinis> By placing function prototypes in a header file, one can specify an interface for a library.
2013-03-12T20:33:33 < elektrinis> mm
2013-03-12T20:33:34 < elektrinis> ok
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2013-03-12T20:35:44 <+Steffanx> One can almost specify where they want it to specify it..
2013-03-12T20:35:50 <+Steffanx> *specify it
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2013-03-12T20:36:25 <+Steffanx> I mean, like mr jpa- said. It doesn't have to be in a "header file"
2013-03-12T20:36:51 < jpa-> Steffanx: when are you coming to visit me?
2013-03-12T20:36:56 < elektrinis> I see
2013-03-12T20:37:27 <+Steffanx> When do you have time?
2013-03-12T20:37:43 < elektrinis> but then, i should not have functions with same names in different files?
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2013-03-12T20:40:51 < jpa-> Steffanx: in april
2013-03-12T20:41:24 <+Steffanx> elektrinis the answer could be yes and no, but i think in general it's not a good idea to do that ( and probably wont even work )
2013-03-12T20:41:34 <+Steffanx> *yes or no
2013-03-12T20:41:39 < elektrinis> :)
2013-03-12T20:41:40 < elektrinis> ok
2013-03-12T20:41:41 <+Steffanx> Sorry, no time in april
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2013-03-12T20:42:12 <+Steffanx> You should invite the other 75 people in this channel too
2013-03-12T20:42:22 <+Steffanx> *74
2013-03-12T20:42:33 < jpa-> but you are my soulmate
2013-03-12T20:42:48 <+Steffanx> +- people who like to be here twice
2013-03-12T20:43:22 <+Steffanx> I'm pretty sure I'm no good for the depression of your parrot
2013-03-12T20:43:45 < jpa-> why?
2013-03-12T20:44:15 <+Steffanx> I can be pretty annoying
2013-03-12T20:44:18 < BJfreeman> I can only go where I can drive my Motorcoach
2013-03-12T20:44:44 <+Steffanx> wtf is a Motorcoach?
2013-03-12T20:45:20 <+Steffanx> oh, house on wheels
2013-03-12T20:45:33 <+Steffanx> You can get in on a ship and/or in a airplane BJfreeman ?
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2013-03-12T20:50:23 < BJfreeman> http://roadwarrior.free-man.com/
2013-03-12T20:51:10 < BJfreeman> motor homes are built on truck frames motorcoarch are converted busess
2013-03-12T20:51:45 <+Steffanx> you live in that?
2013-03-12T20:52:02 < qyx_> sice 1989?
2013-03-12T20:52:04 < qyx_> since
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2013-03-12T20:52:22 <+Steffanx> oh, i see
2013-03-12T20:52:22 < BJfreeman> yup
2013-03-12T20:52:28 <+Steffanx> i didn't click on it yet
2013-03-12T20:53:46 <+Steffanx> with some fancy 3g internet?
2013-03-12T20:54:52 <+Steffanx> heh BJfreeman "This site is best viewed with a 800 X 600 resolution." :D
2013-03-12T20:55:14 <+Steffanx> We should all get a fancy phone ( or an old crt )
2013-03-12T20:57:11 < BJfreeman> well I have  1024X 600
2013-03-12T20:57:45 <+Steffanx> random tablet?
2013-03-12T20:57:54 < BJfreeman> netbook
2013-03-12T20:58:36 <+Steffanx> Anyway, so you live anywhere in the US where you want to live?
2013-03-12T20:58:45 < BJfreeman> I have a 3g Wifi card so can connect 5 computers
2013-03-12T20:59:16 < BJfreeman> yup if I don't like the niegbors or activity just turn the key
2013-03-12T20:59:31 <+Steffanx> How nice :)
2013-03-12T20:59:54 <+Steffanx> Too bad gass is so expensive here
2013-03-12T21:00:06 < BrainDamage> how do you handle stuff like freshwater, wastewater, etc?
2013-03-12T21:00:44 < BJfreeman> have on board fresh water and grey and black holding tanks about a months worth
2013-03-12T21:00:53 < BJfreeman> then go and fill and dump
2013-03-12T21:01:09 < BrainDamage> k, 1 month doesn't sound that bothersome
2013-03-12T21:01:20 < BrainDamage> I assume electric power comes off the engine
2013-03-12T21:01:28 <+Steffanx> BrainDamage found his destiny
2013-03-12T21:01:53 < BJfreeman> have large house battery bank that is charged by Gas, hydrogen generators
2013-03-12T21:01:57 < BrainDamage> not really, for how much I enjoy travelling, I don't find those too appealing for a long period
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2013-03-12T21:03:15 < BJfreeman> there are thousands that live this way moving based on weather
2013-03-12T21:03:44 < BJfreeman> even families
2013-03-12T21:04:48 <+Steffanx> probably not because it's cheaper...
2013-03-12T21:05:40 < BJfreeman> They move from Job to Job that are seasonal or temporary
2013-03-12T21:05:47 -!- MrMobius [~Joey@194.176.111.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2013-03-12T21:06:32 < BJfreeman> some have food services and follow fairs
2013-03-12T21:10:33 <+Steffanx> and you just and old man enjoying life?
2013-03-12T21:10:36 <+Steffanx> :)
2013-03-12T21:12:16 < BJfreeman> got all my toys
2013-03-12T21:13:35 < BJfreeman> and  I own everthing
2013-03-12T21:15:12 <+Steffanx> As in, no mortgage and crap?
2013-03-12T21:18:07 < BJfreeman> yup no worry of forecloser
2013-03-12T21:18:37 < BJfreeman> or being evicted due lack of payment of rent
2013-03-12T21:20:27 <+Steffanx> jpa- preparing for my visit?
2013-03-12T21:22:06 < jpa-> yes, wife is making apple pie for you already
2013-03-12T21:22:37 <+Steffanx> Nice nice, i will bring some 'stroopwafels
2013-03-12T21:22:38 <+Steffanx> '
2013-03-12T21:22:40 <+Steffanx> with me
2013-03-12T21:23:03 < BrainDamage> won't the wife be jelous?
2013-03-12T21:23:03 < jpa-> yum
2013-03-12T21:23:13 < BrainDamage> or will she share jpa with Steffanx?
2013-03-12T21:23:17 < jpa-> no the stroopwafels will definitely take care of that
2013-03-12T21:23:30 < BrainDamage> they are poisoned?
2013-03-12T21:23:39 < jpa-> they are yum
2013-03-12T21:23:40 <+Steffanx> I will take Erlkoenig with me to take care of jpa-, BrainDamage :)
2013-03-12T21:23:48 <+Steffanx> Man, this channel is no good for us
2013-03-12T21:23:52 < Erlkoenig> wat oO
2013-03-12T21:23:58 < jpa-> no not the submarine guy
2013-03-12T21:24:13 < jpa-> he'll steal my ultrasonics :(
2013-03-12T21:24:59 <+Steffanx> He can have mine
2013-03-12T21:25:02 <+Steffanx> Problem solved
2013-03-12T21:25:28 < jpa-> good
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2013-03-12T21:26:50 <+Steffanx> You should make a 'social network diagram' for this channel mr jpa-
2013-03-12T21:27:11 < jpa-> indeed
2013-03-12T21:27:33 < zyp> heh
2013-03-12T21:27:39 < Erlkoenig> ima using 40MHz RC transmitters for my submarine now
2013-03-12T21:27:47 < zyp> Steffanx, how would that look?
2013-03-12T21:27:51 <+Steffanx> Range of 1 meter?
2013-03-12T21:28:06 < Erlkoenig> range a few meters
2013-03-12T21:28:06 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb <== [all]
2013-03-12T21:28:08 < Erlkoenig> through water
2013-03-12T21:28:53 <+Steffanx> Tested it in real water?
2013-03-12T21:29:14 < zyp> what is fake water?
2013-03-12T21:29:21 < BrainDamage> I was about to ask
2013-03-12T21:29:54 < BrainDamage> the things that might change range tought might be salinity
2013-03-12T21:29:56 <+Steffanx> Ha, you guys are soooo predictable :)
2013-03-12T21:30:04 < BrainDamage> like freshwater vs salt water
2013-03-12T21:30:15 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx: yes
2013-03-12T21:30:20 < Erlkoenig> in non-salt water
2013-03-12T21:30:45 < BrainDamage> pool? or river/lake?
2013-03-12T21:31:06 < Erlkoenig> lake
2013-03-12T21:34:48 < jpa-> Steffanx: http://koti.kapsi.fi/jpa/stuff/other/cspy/stm32.html
2013-03-12T21:35:06 < jpa-> Laurenceb clearly has two personalities
2013-03-12T21:35:18 < jpa-> but both of his personalities like chibios
2013-03-12T21:35:35 < Erlkoenig> what... you... what
2013-03-12T21:36:16 < Erlkoenig> but i also talk to zyp sometimes :D
2013-03-12T21:36:30 < Erlkoenig> and i like gcc
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2013-03-12T21:36:52 < BrainDamage> zyp looks gangbanged
2013-03-12T21:37:31 < BrainDamage> also, is your mutual attraction from the fact steffanx has +, while jpa has - ?
2013-03-12T21:37:34 < jpa-> Erlkoenig: you have mentioned gcc only 7 times, dongs absolutely loves it with 51 lines :)
2013-03-12T21:37:47 < Erlkoenig> ah okay that's how it works :D
2013-03-12T21:37:49 < jpa-> BrainDamage: obviously
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2013-03-12T21:38:03 < BrainDamage> k, that explains some things
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2013-03-12T21:38:36 < BrainDamage> odd that sores are not present in that graph
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2013-03-12T21:43:38 < BrainDamage> jpa-: perhaps you should algorythmically define blaxter ration, and keep track of that too
2013-03-12T21:43:41 < BrainDamage> -n
2013-03-12T21:46:54  * jpa- is eating apple pie
2013-03-12T21:49:16  * zyp is considering making steak with rice
2013-03-12T21:50:05 < jpa-> remember to make some sauce
2013-03-12T21:50:24 < BrainDamage> but it has to be open?
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2013-03-12T21:57:21 < qyx_> lol
2013-03-12T21:57:33 < qyx_> jpa-: too many bugs in nuttx causing hardfaults? :>
2013-03-12T21:57:52 < jpa-> indeed
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2013-03-12T22:04:16 < Laurenceb_> holy shit
2013-03-12T22:04:19 < Laurenceb_> my nets work
2013-03-12T22:04:32  * Laurenceb_ has been out filing his tubes
2013-03-12T22:04:52 < Laurenceb_> the pipes were corroded
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2013-03-12T22:07:39 <+Steffanx> lol Laurenceb.. that graph shows you are only talked to :)
2013-03-12T22:08:21 < Laurenceb_> looks like water got into the cabinet on the street
2013-03-12T22:08:45 < Laurenceb_> i took the boor off and filed the corrosion off then resoldered it
2013-03-12T22:08:55 < Laurenceb_> openreach take forever to turn up :P
2013-03-12T22:08:58 < Laurenceb_> *door
2013-03-12T22:09:36 < BrainDamage> openreach sounds saucy stuff
2013-03-12T22:09:46 < Laurenceb_> UK broadband repair
2013-03-12T22:10:10 < Laurenceb_> their cabinet was horrifying, surprising it ever worked
2013-03-12T22:10:34 < Laurenceb_> full of used condoms and mouldy take aways
2013-03-12T22:11:05 < BrainDamage> you felt right at home
2013-03-12T22:11:11 < Laurenceb_> lolz
2013-03-12T22:11:51 < Laurenceb_> when the repair guys finally turn up they may be a little confused... they never solder connectors
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2013-03-12T23:34:35 < emeb> Laurenceb_ - cable guy.
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2013-03-12T23:37:53 < Tectu> now, that's a square wave... http://www.abload.de/img/filter_2_square_20tsp5q.png
2013-03-12T23:38:26 < emeb> looks like duty cycle isn't quite 50%
2013-03-12T23:39:01 < Tectu> it is, just not a bit resolution and a 9. grade filter
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2013-03-13T00:38:37 <+Steffanx> Have fun?
2013-03-13T00:39:09 <+Steffanx> Not sure how one can have fun there, but who knows
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2013-03-13T03:14:46 < Erlkoenig> zyp: rewrote the AF compiler magic using insane boost::mpl::set stuff, allows for more than 32 AF's. Each timer channel has its own 'AF' now
2013-03-13T03:15:12 < Erlkoenig> Parsing the information about the pins from ST's XML files thanks to Steffanx
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2013-03-13T04:35:39 < baird> http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130310/METRO/303100306 .. "..December, she wrote in a personal blog that the world was about to end in a lurid outburst of cannibalism, bestiality and the moon dripping blood.." "She said the death was made to look like a suicide by the people who really killed her — a NATO hit squad."
2013-03-13T04:36:47 < Erlkoenig> welcome to the world :D
2013-03-13T04:36:53 < Bird|lappy> lol
2013-03-13T04:37:30 < Erlkoenig> i don't get the relation of CAN1 and CAN2... the bxCAN registers don't even contain bits to enable CAN1 or CAN2, just enable bxCAN alltogether
2013-03-13T04:38:18 < baird> I knew someone who claimed that the Welfare Office had a Hit Squad that was trying to get her.. :/
2013-03-13T04:38:27 < Erlkoenig> are CAN1 and CAN2 just two interfaces between two physical CAN lines which are used as one "logical" "virtual" faster single network?
2013-03-13T04:38:39 < Erlkoenig> ... and the software
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2013-03-13T05:51:23 < mizdo> hi all, anybody knows where to find the documentation for the FSMC PCCARD interface?
2013-03-13T05:52:03 < mizdo> damn, I have been searching for this for almost 2 hours, and have found zilch
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2013-03-13T06:54:57 < dongs> pccard?
2013-03-13T06:54:59 < dongs> as in pcmcia?
2013-03-13T06:55:13 < dongs> who the fuck uses that? :)
2013-03-13T06:57:01 < Erlkoenig> mizdo, apparantly
2013-03-13T06:59:02 < dongs> in soviet brazil, pcmcia still exists
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2013-03-13T07:56:32 < mizdo> sorry, am back
2013-03-13T07:56:45 < mizdo> yeah as in pcmcia
2013-03-13T07:57:00 < mizdo> the problem is not that the peripheral is a pcmcia card per se
2013-03-13T07:57:33 < mizdo> it's a ST16C654 UART
2013-03-13T07:58:30 < mizdo> I think it basically could work using any of the other banks, but the problem is that I am working on a board, not designed by me
2013-03-13T07:59:03 < mizdo> and this board has the IOR and IOW lines connected to the FSMC_NIORD and FSMC_NIOWR lines
2013-03-13T07:59:37 < mizdo> and this basically ties me to using the PCCARD bank, unless I do some troublesome rework on several boards
2013-03-13T08:01:43 < mizdo> anyways, basically what needs to be done is simply an I/O space access, but I tried probing all around the bank4 memory region (0x90000000) and I only get hardfaults
2013-03-13T08:02:12 < mizdo> I have configured the bank using the StdPeriph driver ofcourse
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2013-03-13T09:49:21 < jpa-> hmm, stm32f407 voltage regulator is dead on newly soldered board.. other boards with same layout work
2013-03-13T09:49:30 < jpa-> 3.3V comes in, nothing comes out
2013-03-13T09:49:34 < jpa-> any ideas what to check?
2013-03-13T09:50:28 < R2COM> is it bga?
2013-03-13T09:50:37 < jpa-> no, lqfp144
2013-03-13T09:50:53 < jpa-> solderwork look ok under microscope
2013-03-13T09:50:54 < R2COM> and I assume you checked all contacts
2013-03-13T09:51:12 < R2COM> chip itself works? like other functions
2013-03-13T09:51:38 < jpa-> no idea, because it gets no power
2013-03-13T09:52:03 < jpa-> i'm not daring enough to hook 1.2 volt to the Vcap pins
2013-03-13T09:52:13 < dongs> lo
2013-03-13T09:52:30 < R2COM> if board is from same batch, and other boards work, then why not just rework chip, put another stm32 on it
2013-03-13T09:52:52 < jpa-> not good enough tools to rework lqfp144, would have to scrap whole board
2013-03-13T09:53:06 < R2COM> no hot gun?
2013-03-13T09:53:21 < jpa-> i've tried in the past, everything else burns before i can get it off
2013-03-13T09:54:15 < R2COM> then with soldering iron, put *lots* of solder on one side, then on another, then start heating the chip a lot while with twizzers lifting it from one corner, repeat on another corner, carefull not to pull traces off (note: chip wont be definitely used again)
2013-03-13T09:54:41 < jpa-> indeed, it's more of a last resort
2013-03-13T09:55:00 < R2COM> its in the case you dont have hot gun, with hot gun its easy to pick off chip, nothing has to be burned!
2013-03-13T09:55:04 < jpa-> i guess i'll go and try retouching all the pins with iron, maybe something is not actually fully connected
2013-03-13T09:55:24 < jpa-> R2COM: ever done it for lqfp144 on a dense board?
2013-03-13T09:55:32 < jpa-> 4 layers, so a lot of heat dissipation also
2013-03-13T09:55:38 < R2COM> lqfp144.. ok
2013-03-13T09:55:49 < R2COM> then hot gun
2013-03-13T09:55:50 < jpa-> it's practically impossible to get all sides molten at once
2013-03-13T09:55:56 < jpa-> even with hot gun
2013-03-13T09:56:13 < jpa-> reflow oven yeah, but the display module would not handle that
2013-03-13T09:56:20 < R2COM> I think i removed before lqfp144 with hot gun, I'm pretty sure
2013-03-13T09:57:21 < R2COM> its harder to remove it without overheating, but since you plan to scrap chip, who cares.
2013-03-13T10:00:50 < jpa-> ahhah, found it
2013-03-13T10:01:00 < jpa-> output pin of Vadc regulator was not soldered
2013-03-13T10:01:37 < jpa-> nothing wrong with the processor
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2013-03-13T11:14:36 < donigs> yeah tqfp144 is retardedly huge
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2013-03-13T11:15:16 < zyp> dongs, sup?
2013-03-13T11:15:29 < donigs> not much, getting raped w/stuff
2013-03-13T11:15:31 < donigs> status of lcd?
2013-03-13T11:15:50 < donigs> im sure as a daily lunix developer you feel my pain
2013-03-13T11:15:52 < zyp> got money back, ordered another, still waiting
2013-03-13T11:15:57 < donigs> funtimes
2013-03-13T11:17:36 < zyp> this time it's probably not gonna show up before I leave for japan, and then it'll be returned before I get home because I was too late to collect it :p
2013-03-13T11:18:22 < donigs> haha
2013-03-13T11:21:14 < baird> I have a Nexus 10 now, maggots.
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2013-03-13T12:19:45 < karlp> nicr graphs jpa :)
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2013-03-13T12:35:07 < Laurenceb_> ive just had an idea more cunning than the fox who was professor of cunningness at oxford
2013-03-13T12:35:19 < Laurenceb_> 1) take usb mouse, dismantle it
2013-03-13T12:35:43 < Laurenceb_> 2) make custom stm32 based replacement pcb, with nand flash
2013-03-13T12:36:18 < Laurenceb_> 3) custom pcb enumerates as mouse... until you click a button sequence, then it re-enumerates as mass storage
2013-03-13T12:38:31 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: point is?
2013-03-13T12:38:45 < Laurenceb_> secret storage
2013-03-13T12:39:19 < Laurenceb_> im sure Tectu would approve
2013-03-13T12:39:30 < jpa-> lol, much easier: connect usb stick inside the mouse, use a switch to switch the Vbus of the mouse vs. the stick
2013-03-13T12:39:39 < zyp> when do you need secret storage?
2013-03-13T12:40:03 < jpa-> you'll never be able to steal that 4 GB of nuclear bomb plans at the 900kBps speed of STM32
2013-03-13T12:40:30 < Laurenceb_> jpa-: obvious to anyone who opens the mouse
2013-03-13T12:40:43 < Laurenceb_> also easy for them to grab the data once they find it
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2013-03-13T12:46:37 < Laurenceb_> wow atmel UC3 is poor
2013-03-13T12:46:44 < Laurenceb_> just reading the datasheet
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2013-03-13T13:09:05 < jpa-> Laurenceb: having a NAND chip inside a mouse is a bit suspicious also :)
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2013-03-13T13:31:45 < donigs> Laurenceb: yea its shit
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2013-03-13T13:40:04 < donigs> lol cocks, i have to do another design with stm8
2013-03-13T13:40:39 < donigs> fuckin' cost saving
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2013-03-13T13:41:16 < zyp> heh
2013-03-13T13:41:41 < jpa-> you're just lucky it's not a PIC
2013-03-13T13:42:30 < donigs> i dont think pic will be that  cheap
2013-03-13T13:42:35 < donigs> its a STM8S207C6T6
2013-03-13T13:42:44 < donigs> they should be < $1
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2013-03-13T13:44:47 < donigs> i need 2 uarts and decent software library
2013-03-13T13:46:15 < donigs> check out this hilarity http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ATMEGA2560-16CUR/ATMEGA2560-16CURCT-ND/2774221
2013-03-13T13:46:52 < jpa-> i never understood the point of 8-bit controllers with tons of flash
2013-03-13T13:47:13 < donigs> well I was thinking more price
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2013-03-13T13:47:38 < donigs> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/STM32F407IGH6/497-11765-ND/2754209
2013-03-13T13:47:44 < jpa-> the price is hilarious also, of course
2013-03-13T13:48:24 < donigs> but it should be easy to route
2013-03-13T13:48:26 < donigs> 0.8mm  balls
2013-03-13T13:48:32 < donigs> i might do a project with that in near future
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2013-03-13T13:48:37 < oMobius> 8 bit micro in BGA???
2013-03-13T13:48:40 < donigs> (the failmeaga)
2013-03-13T13:48:45 < donigs> of course I'm not paying so i dont mind
2013-03-13T13:48:53 < qyx_> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MC68HC11E1MFNE3/MC68HC11E1MFNE3-ND/2185704
2013-03-13T13:48:57 < qyx_> ha!
2013-03-13T13:49:04 < qyx_> someone still uses that
2013-03-13T13:49:07 < donigs> haha
2013-03-13T13:49:10 < donigs> jlead
2013-03-13T13:49:13 < donigs> or wahtever the fuck you call that
2013-03-13T13:49:18 < donigs> PLCC?
2013-03-13T13:49:28 < qyx_> yep
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2013-03-13T13:59:57 < oMobius> even better than AVR for 8 bits is 8051
2013-03-13T14:00:07 < oMobius> you can get this one in a DIP package for only $84
2013-03-13T14:00:08 < oMobius> http://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Maxim-Integrated/DS5000T-32-16/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu9ReDVvI6axw6aOPOhEar%2fqn0rW%252bsVlik%3d
2013-03-13T14:00:11 < donigs> everyone uses 8051
2013-03-13T14:01:38 < oMobius> im trying to get some shipped to me from china. more RAM and flash than the msp430 im using. also 1 cycle instructions.
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2013-03-13T14:24:50 < donigs> lol 5V
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2013-03-13T14:27:05 <+Steffanx> The good old times
2013-03-13T14:28:57 < MrMobius> in DIP-40 too. so sexy.
2013-03-13T14:29:23 < MrMobius> they will put 8 ARM cors in DIP40 someday then life will be complete. none of this propeller nonsense.
2013-03-13T14:30:23 < jpa-> one day you'll have a full linux computer in DIP40 package
2013-03-13T14:30:24 <+Steffanx> Only 8?
2013-03-13T14:31:29 <+Steffanx> Why not just a 8 pins dip package? Who needs more?
2013-03-13T14:31:49 <+Steffanx> built-in bluetooth, wifi, buck-boost converter
2013-03-13T14:32:07 <+Steffanx> Man, the feature is great
2013-03-13T14:32:25 < MrMobius> why 8 pins?
2013-03-13T14:32:34 < MrMobius> doesnt pic make an smd one with only 6>
2013-03-13T14:32:35 < MrMobius> ?
2013-03-13T14:32:43 <+Steffanx> Atmel too
2013-03-13T14:32:53 <+Steffanx> Yes, microchip too
2013-03-13T14:33:46 < baird> Yet people are always whining when they have to do I2C to a chip here. :P
2013-03-13T14:33:48 <+Steffanx> Ti too
2013-03-13T14:34:19 <+Steffanx> mosi, mosi, sck and cs .. SPI :D
2013-03-13T14:34:23 <+Steffanx> *miso
2013-03-13T14:35:13 < MrMobius> they could get it down to 5 pins if they used the Vcc pin for data too like those EPROMS in a TO-92 package
2013-03-13T14:36:28 < baird> Have I mentioned yet how sexy the N10's 300ppi screen is yet? :D
2013-03-13T14:36:39 <+Steffanx> Screens are NOT sexy
2013-03-13T14:38:23 < baird>  \_ a 600x800 Kindle ebook owner who can't into proper PDFs
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2013-03-13T14:40:39 < zyp> baird, all the ipad owners mentioned that 300ppi screens were nice like a year ago
2013-03-13T14:41:03 <+Steffanx> How many here own an ipad?
2013-03-13T14:41:18 < Laurenceb> NEVER
2013-03-13T14:41:45 < donigs> i sure as hell dont
2013-03-13T14:42:23 < zyp> donigs, so, we already know you hate ipad, what's your opinion of android tablets like N10?
2013-03-13T14:42:31 < donigs> trash of course
2013-03-13T14:42:33 <+Steffanx> CRAPPY SHIT
2013-03-13T14:42:42 <+Steffanx> +" "
2013-03-13T14:42:42 < baird> pfft. iPads are only 265ppi
2013-03-13T14:50:31 < donigs> attn zyp http://www.nhk.or.jp/bs/joshianime/images/bnr_03_.jpg
2013-03-13T14:51:21 <+Steffanx> ok.....
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2013-03-13T14:59:00 < zyp> donigs, it would probably be more fun if I didn't know BS means «broadcast satellite»
2013-03-13T14:59:06 < zyp> or did I miss the joke?
2013-03-13T14:59:10 < donigs> that was the joke
2013-03-13T14:59:53 <+Steffanx> LOL
2013-03-13T15:01:53 < Laurenceb> rage
2013-03-13T15:01:55 <+Steffanx> Even your Last Measure troll/joke was more fun donigs
2013-03-13T15:02:00  * Laurenceb broke octave
2013-03-13T15:02:11 <+Steffanx> What's next? The linux kernel?
2013-03-13T15:02:14 < Laurenceb> _ZN5ArrayI12octave_valueED0Ev
2013-03-13T15:02:16 <+Steffanx> ( no, that's too easy )
2013-03-13T15:02:18 < Laurenceb> what the fuuuuuu
2013-03-13T15:02:30 < Laurenceb> can't find reference to it anywhere
2013-03-13T15:02:46 <+Steffanx> Google it, seems to be a known error
2013-03-13T15:02:51 < Laurenceb> grepping the source...
2013-03-13T15:03:03 < Laurenceb> wtf nothing found
2013-03-13T15:03:09 < Laurenceb> RAGE
2013-03-13T15:03:18 < Laurenceb> nothing useful on google
2013-03-13T15:03:19 <+Steffanx> but only people who ask about it  :)
2013-03-13T15:03:25 < Laurenceb> #octave is dead
2013-03-13T15:03:43 < Laurenceb> arg
2013-03-13T15:03:59 < Laurenceb> how can it not be in the source code
2013-03-13T15:04:18 < zyp> it's a mangled name, it means: Array<octave_value>::~Array()
2013-03-13T15:04:25 < zyp> i.e. the destructor
2013-03-13T15:04:51 < Laurenceb> so... how do i fix the error?
2013-03-13T15:05:02 < Laurenceb> error: /usr/local/share/octave/site/m/xmltoolbox/xml_load.oct: failed to load: /usr/lib/liboctavexml.so: undefined symbol: _ZN5ArrayI12octave_valueED0Ev
2013-03-13T15:05:21 < zyp> how the fuck would I know?
2013-03-13T15:05:23 < zyp> :p
2013-03-13T15:05:25 < Laurenceb> lol
2013-03-13T15:05:45 < Laurenceb> i think they changed the names somewhere
2013-03-13T15:05:57 <+Steffanx> I tried to install octave a few days ago. Until the compilation stopped on some fortran crap
2013-03-13T15:06:00 < zyp> sounds like a mismatch between executable and .so
2013-03-13T15:06:07 < Laurenceb> hmm
2013-03-13T15:06:14 < Laurenceb> maybe i need to recompile the so?
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2013-03-13T15:06:18 < Laurenceb> is that even possible?
2013-03-13T15:06:19 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: why did you have to compile?
2013-03-13T15:06:26 <+Steffanx> no os x version available
2013-03-13T15:06:29  * Laurenceb just recompiled too
2013-03-13T15:06:43 <+Steffanx> So i had to install/compile it using 'brew'
2013-03-13T15:06:44 < Laurenceb> to fix unmitigated clusterfucks with the libraries
2013-03-13T15:06:54 < Laurenceb> but xml is still broken
2013-03-13T15:06:59 <+Steffanx> Now it's even more clusterfucked
2013-03-13T15:07:07 < Laurenceb> lol
2013-03-13T15:07:09 < BrainDamage> octave --help
2013-03-13T15:07:09 < BrainDamage> GNU Octave, version 3.6.3
2013-03-13T15:07:12 < Laurenceb> no, slightly less
2013-03-13T15:07:17 < Laurenceb> same here
2013-03-13T15:07:28 <+Steffanx> -bash: octave: command not found :P
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2013-03-13T15:07:48 < zyp> it's a curious problem though
2013-03-13T15:08:10 < BrainDamage> that .so looks like part of core lib
2013-03-13T15:08:14 < BrainDamage> rather than a toolbox
2013-03-13T15:08:32 < zyp> it's a templated type, so you'd expect the destructor to be emitted in the same translation unit as it is used
2013-03-13T15:09:00 < zyp> so it's a bit weird that it gives a dynamic linking error like that
2013-03-13T15:09:57 < zyp> unless there somehow is a destructor declared but not defined anywhere, but I don't get how that would work
2013-03-13T15:10:08 <+Steffanx> clusterfuck..
2013-03-13T15:12:42 < Laurenceb>  interesting
2013-03-13T15:12:48 < Laurenceb> i can recompile the .so fil
2013-03-13T15:13:01 < Laurenceb> maybe im building for octave 3.2, I still have it installed
2013-03-13T15:13:44 < Laurenceb> aha
2013-03-13T15:13:58 < Laurenceb> i have octave3.2-header via package manager
2013-03-13T15:14:04 < Laurenceb> thats probably breaking it
2013-03-13T15:14:22 < Laurenceb> this is going to be fun to fix...
2013-03-13T15:14:53 <+Steffanx> Sure linux is good for you? :)
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2013-03-13T15:16:34 < Laurenceb> itd help if i understood how to install a header package manually...
2013-03-13T15:16:42 < Laurenceb> as 3.6 is not in the repo
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2013-03-13T16:16:13 <+Steffanx> mr jpa- awake?
2013-03-13T16:16:36 < jpa-> yes
2013-03-13T16:17:28 <+Steffanx> Your magic ball robot. You say you used the servo + motor method instead of two motors. WHY? Because it's easier?
2013-03-13T16:18:04 <+Steffanx> ( Have some brainfarts again and i like to do some research first :P )
2013-03-13T16:18:23 < jpa-> yeah, it was easier to fit that in the sphere
2013-03-13T16:18:31 -!- Robint91 [~Robin@dD5776E9E.access.telenet.be] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-13T16:18:37 < Robint91> hi all
2013-03-13T16:18:44 <+Steffanx> All just left
2013-03-13T16:18:53 <+Steffanx> Sorry, old joke
2013-03-13T16:20:07 <+Steffanx> What part didn't turn out as expected jpa- ?
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2013-03-13T16:20:36 < jpa-> Steffanx: hmm.. where do i say that? :)
2013-03-13T16:20:43 <+Steffanx> You said that heer
2013-03-13T16:20:44 <+Steffanx> here
2013-03-13T16:20:47 <+Steffanx> iirc
2013-03-13T16:20:54 < jpa-> well, dozens of things :D
2013-03-13T16:21:04 <+Steffanx> You said that last week or so..
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2013-03-13T16:21:47 <+Steffanx> I didn't ask how many things were fuck up but what :)
2013-03-13T16:22:08 < jpa-> hmm can't remember speaking about that project lately :)
2013-03-13T16:23:06 < jpa-> but i guess the most important lesson was: AHRS and control system stuff is not as easy as it seems :)
2013-03-13T16:24:18 <+Steffanx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-07.html#12:03:36
2013-03-13T16:24:25 < donigs> blogged
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2013-03-13T16:24:31 <+Steffanx> tarduino.cc ?
2013-03-13T16:25:34 < jpa-> Steffanx: ah, well my vision had the ball obeying commands swiftly and going silently and very fast over all kinds of obstacles :D
2013-03-13T16:26:39 < BrainDamage1> is the noise from the pwm-ing or from the gears?
2013-03-13T16:26:47 <+Steffanx> So it was a sw issue, the hw worked as expected
2013-03-13T16:26:56 < jpa-> BrainDamage1: gears
2013-03-13T16:27:07 < donigs> nosie?
2013-03-13T16:27:08 < donigs> where
2013-03-13T16:27:11 < donigs> er, nosie
2013-03-13T16:27:13 < jpa-> Steffanx: no, it was the hardware that causes the delay..
2013-03-13T16:27:13 < donigs> NOISE FUCKER
2013-03-13T16:27:20 < karlp> what's AHRS?
2013-03-13T16:27:24 <+Steffanx> You wont be able to see it donigs
2013-03-13T16:27:25 < jpa-> Steffanx: because of conservation of momentum etc.
2013-03-13T16:27:34 <+Steffanx> it uses webm.. your IE6 doenst support that
2013-03-13T16:27:39 < donigs> haha
2013-03-13T16:27:58 < jpa-> karlp: attitude and heading reference system.. i.e. accelerometer + magnetometer (in my case, many other people use gyros) to compute the orientation of the device
2013-03-13T16:28:07 <+Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QOKWwp6l28&feature=youtu.be youtube supports ie6 ?
2013-03-13T16:28:12 < donigs> wtf
2013-03-13T16:28:25 < donigs> fuck, no linkfixer script here
2013-03-13T16:28:38 <+Steffanx> Whats wrong with teh link?
2013-03-13T16:28:43 < donigs> everythign
2013-03-13T16:28:59 < jpa-> maybe the fact that it is not webm?
2013-03-13T16:29:14 <+Steffanx> It's even https !
2013-03-13T16:29:49 < donigs> lol balls
2013-03-13T16:30:50 <+Steffanx> donigs only does flying dongs
2013-03-13T16:30:53 < donigs> yea
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2013-03-13T16:32:47 < BrainDamage1> the ball idea is cute, I wonder if you can get it airdropped somewhere then have it go explore ( I know, I always aim for overkill )
2013-03-13T16:34:13 < zyp> the guys at the company next doors is apparently bored today
2013-03-13T16:34:27 < zyp> they've been dropping small paratroopers out of the window all day
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2013-03-13T16:44:56 <+Steffanx> haha zyp :)
2013-03-13T16:45:26 <+Steffanx> Get your copter and get them back up
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2013-03-13T17:06:39 < baird> Play a real-life version of the Apple2 game Sabotage.
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2013-03-13T17:07:30 <+Steffanx> baird, baird .. don't forget about the average age in the channel
2013-03-13T17:08:40 < baird> Think of it has the IT equivalent of readhing Shakespeare.
2013-03-13T17:09:01 <+Steffanx> whatever
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2013-03-13T17:26:48 < dongs> k
2013-03-13T17:26:58 < dongs> im about to test out the ptc+zener shit
2013-03-13T17:28:36 < dongs> haha i think it works
2013-03-13T17:28:43 < dongs> hm need to find some ~100mA load
2013-03-13T17:30:03 < Robint91> dongs, what are you trying to do?
2013-03-13T17:31:46 < dongs> Robint91: overvoltage/reverse polarity protection in teh most ghetto way possible
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2013-03-13T17:35:45 < dongs> emeb just in time
2013-03-13T17:36:10 < emeb> just in time for what?
2013-03-13T17:36:33 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/uxSnrRe.jpg
2013-03-13T17:37:12 < emeb> LED strip?
2013-03-13T17:37:20 < dongs> not that
2013-03-13T17:38:10 < dongs> this is the ptc/zener troll
2013-03-13T17:38:20 < emeb> aha - does it work?
2013-03-13T17:38:28 < Robint91> dongs, why not TVS diodes?
2013-03-13T17:38:45 < dongs> emeb: seems so
2013-03-13T17:38:48 < dongs> Robint91: for what?
2013-03-13T17:38:58 < Robint91> protection?
2013-03-13T17:38:59 < emeb> sweet!
2013-03-13T17:39:04 < dongs> Robint91: how?
2013-03-13T17:39:07 < emeb> overvoltage condom
2013-03-13T17:39:09 < dongs> Robint91: i can't allow voltage > 5.5V
2013-03-13T17:39:13 < dongs> i dont think i can use TVS for this
2013-03-13T17:39:39 < Robint91> dongs, or some expensive linear part?
2013-03-13T17:39:44 < Robint91> with external mosfets
2013-03-13T17:39:47 < dongs> eys already went through that
2013-03-13T17:39:50 < Robint91> or a a simple LDO
2013-03-13T17:39:54 < dongs> that was last weeks blogging
2013-03-13T17:40:07 < dongs> this seems to work the way i want
2013-03-13T17:40:17 < dongs> it doesnt smoke the  chip and doesnt allow >5.5V
2013-03-13T17:40:30 < BrainDamage> he wanted a simple and cheap way to clamp voltage to 5.5V if someone were to excess the power supply ratings
2013-03-13T17:40:40 < BrainDamage> so I suggested him that
2013-03-13T17:40:43 < emeb> has a small drop thru the PTC of ~ 0.05V IIRC.
2013-03-13T17:40:55 < BrainDamage> as bonus, it even protects from reverse polarization
2013-03-13T17:41:22 < BrainDamage> since it'll clamp max negative voltage applied to ~-0.7V
2013-03-13T17:42:02 < Robint91> dongs, is it for just inputs or power stuff
2013-03-13T17:42:15 < dongs> its for < 100mA drawn
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2013-03-13T17:42:22 < Laurenceb> is that kapton pcb?
2013-03-13T17:42:31 < dongs> no idea those are jsut HK led strips
2013-03-13T17:42:36 < Laurenceb> oh
2013-03-13T17:42:45 < emeb> "dummy load"
2013-03-13T17:42:46 < Laurenceb> im looking for source of cheap flexi pcb
2013-03-13T17:43:00 < Laurenceb> current supplier is €600 MOQ
2013-03-13T17:44:18 < emeb> So a client of mine has an F405RG hooked to 2x I2S audio dacs. Can't get DMA working on both I2S ports at the same time.
2013-03-13T17:44:40 < emeb> wonder if that's the same problem that mervaka was having.
2013-03-13T17:44:41 < Laurenceb> think i heard about this before...
2013-03-13T17:44:49 < Laurenceb> yeah mervaka
2013-03-13T17:44:50 < dongs> emeb: if theres any drop my fluke doesn't pick it up
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2013-03-13T17:44:59 < dongs> im reading 4.97 from 5.0 output on my power supply
2013-03-13T17:45:01 < dongs> before and after ptc
2013-03-13T17:45:14 < dongs> i think it was the other (small mA ptc) that was hgier R
2013-03-13T17:45:17 < emeb> dongs: cool - that PTC must be pretty low resistance when it's cold.
2013-03-13T17:45:21 < dongs> the one i ended up using was less
2013-03-13T17:45:21 < dongs> yeah
2013-03-13T17:46:27 < Laurenceb> better than rpi PTC ...
2013-03-13T17:47:14 < donigs> so in normal voltage sitaution this diode doesn't exist basically right?
2013-03-13T17:47:17 < donigs> as far as circuit is concerned?
2013-03-13T17:47:20 < emeb> same client has a hotshot STM32 coder that he contracts who works out of Vietnam. And Vietnamese here? :)
2013-03-13T17:47:37 < BrainDamage> donigs: as long as Vin < Vzener, it's off, correct
2013-03-13T17:48:12 < BrainDamage> when your supply exceeds Vzener, it turns on, and tries to sink as much current necessary to keep Vzener on itself
2013-03-13T17:48:33 < BrainDamage> your circuit is in parallel to the zener, so it'll have same voltage
2013-03-13T17:48:50 < BrainDamage> the excess voltage drops on the ptc, which will warm it
2013-03-13T17:48:57 < BrainDamage> and increase it's resistance
2013-03-13T17:54:31 < donigs> ok so i guess this shit works
2013-03-13T17:54:32 < donigs> time to ship it
2013-03-13T17:57:49 < donigs> Robint91: so how does TVS work for this
2013-03-13T17:58:04 < Robint91> donigs, same as the zener
2013-03-13T17:58:19 < donigs> why not just use zener then?
2013-03-13T17:58:38 < Robint91> above a breakdown voltage, it will go into an avalanche breakdown
2013-03-13T17:58:41 < Robint91> TVS is faster
2013-03-13T17:58:52 < Robint91> zeners are slow
2013-03-13T18:01:29 < donigs> hmpf
2013-03-13T18:02:13 < donigs> and it still works with reverse polarity?
2013-03-13T18:02:30 < gnomad> TVS is faster than zener?  always?  how much faster?
2013-03-13T18:02:39 < BJfreeman> also the recovery time is slower for zener
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2013-03-13T18:06:09 < donigs> ok
2013-03-13T18:06:38 < donigs> ill find a standard pad or something so I can try eithero ne
2013-03-13T18:06:59 < karlp> where are the implementations of the arm_math.h functions?
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2013-03-13T18:07:49 < BJfreeman> also TVS should have a larger pad for heatsink
2013-03-13T18:08:03 < donigs> well, i cant have that
2013-03-13T18:08:06 < donigs> but im not planning to overvoltaqge this for more than a second
2013-03-13T18:08:20 < donigs> im using 1210 ptc and i will provly find simething similar for diode
2013-03-13T18:08:30 < BJfreeman> as long as it is not a repetition you ok
2013-03-13T18:08:37 < donigs> yeah its just short time moron protection
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2013-03-13T18:16:14 < BJfreeman> I use TVS in industrial application as well as automotive
2013-03-13T18:16:38 < donigs> yea apparently my ledpal uses it also
2013-03-13T18:16:44 < donigs> I linked him the pic and he laughed when I said zener
2013-03-13T18:16:48 < donigs> fucking smartasses
2013-03-13T18:17:00 < BJfreeman> LOL
2013-03-13T18:17:31 < donigs> BJfreeman: btw, http://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/MPU6050-InvenSense-Inc/422200/
2013-03-13T18:17:35 < BJfreeman> we are all ignorant just some more than others
2013-03-13T18:17:42 < donigs> instead of sparkRIP
2013-03-13T18:18:28 < BJfreeman> wow mouser was $39
2013-03-13T18:18:35 < dongs> youre shitting me
2013-03-13T18:18:58 < dongs> oh
2013-03-13T18:19:02 < dongs> mouser has some weird breakout board for it
2013-03-13T18:19:03 < dongs> lol
2013-03-13T18:19:04 < dongs> for $54
2013-03-13T18:19:11 < dongs> http://kr.mouser.com/ProductDetail/SolderCore/SC-MPU/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujneJ%2fNxyYLk2giPBUaVO3oUuDYHAfrY2Q%3d
2013-03-13T18:19:35 < BJfreeman> yeah so does sparkfun got the eagle files
2013-03-13T18:20:39 < dongs> right, im saying it doesnt cost $50
2013-03-13T18:20:55 < BJfreeman> ah for that type of chip I like those
2013-03-13T18:23:50 < dongs> ok time to get stoned
2013-03-13T18:23:51 < dongs> bbl
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2013-03-13T18:45:15 < Laurenceb> ooh
2013-03-13T18:45:21 < Laurenceb> news from my hometown
2013-03-13T18:45:22 < Laurenceb> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-21771467
2013-03-13T18:51:15  * Laurenceb lives a few streets away
2013-03-13T18:51:50 < Erlkoenig> that article is difficult to read o.O
2013-03-13T18:58:36 < emeb> jpa-: is pilkunnussija really a thing, or just interweb noise?
2013-03-13T19:01:23 -!- gnomad [~gnomad@c-71-203-29-67.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: and like that, he's gone]
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2013-03-13T19:04:22 <+Steffanx> Agreed Erlkoenig. I refuse to read articles organized like that.
2013-03-13T19:04:37 < Erlkoenig> and that by the BBC...
2013-03-13T19:05:03 <+Steffanx> Sentence/ paragraph-ish ratio = 1
2013-03-13T19:05:39  * Steffanx doesnt understand the point of doing that
2013-03-13T19:06:40 <+Steffanx> I have to rotate my screen to read that article without having to scroll
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2013-03-13T19:07:19 < Erlkoenig> a chronological explanation of what happend might also have been useful
2013-03-13T19:07:54 <+Steffanx> Nah, I don't even read it when it's organized like that, so i have no idea what the text says :)
2013-03-13T19:08:00 <+Steffanx> - :)
2013-03-13T19:08:09 < Laurenceb> 1) crazy shit 2) it got crazier
2013-03-13T19:08:42 < gnomad> always an excellent TL;DR
2013-03-13T19:09:03 < jon1012> http://www.curledpixel.com/ yay probation bracelet for everyone !
2013-03-13T19:09:22 <+Steffanx> gnomad they made it long.. as in space wise. The actually text isn't that long
2013-03-13T19:09:58 < emeb> fishing for page hits?
2013-03-13T19:10:09 <+Steffanx> jon1012 everyone wants that new apple watch
2013-03-13T19:10:10 < jpa-> emeb: sure it is
2013-03-13T19:10:19 < jpa-> emeb: commafucking is a national sport in finland
2013-03-13T19:10:41 < emeb> jpa-: hilarious
2013-03-13T19:10:59 < jon1012> (it's not my page at all, I just find their concept fucking dumb)
2013-03-13T19:12:18 <+Steffanx> You don't do sports do you jpa- ?
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2013-03-13T19:13:24 < jpa-> Steffanx: nope
2013-03-13T19:13:46 < jpa-> i rot away inside this small appartment until i die
2013-03-13T19:13:56 < jpa-> then i start decomposing
2013-03-13T19:15:16 < emeb> stinky!
2013-03-13T19:19:01 < gnomad> that thing is ginormous!  worst design evar.
2013-03-13T19:19:16 < Erlkoenig> yeah totally useless
2013-03-13T19:19:38 < Erlkoenig> just wait for the iWatch...
2013-03-13T19:19:44 < jpa-> we are lucky that it is only vaporware
2013-03-13T19:19:47 < gnomad> you can go a *little* bigger than the ipod nano wrist watch, but not much.
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2013-03-13T20:14:16 < zyp> jpa-, is it related to colon fucking?
2013-03-13T20:14:33 < emeb> ewww
2013-03-13T20:15:58 <+Steffanx> is that as bad as it sounds zyp ?
2013-03-13T20:17:36 < zyp> I'm not into that sort of thing, so I wouldn't know
2013-03-13T20:17:42 < jpa-> semicolon is actually a semicomma in finnish
2013-03-13T20:17:58 < jpa-> or is it?
2013-03-13T20:18:00 < jpa-> no.
2013-03-13T20:18:50 < Erlkoenig> colon is doppelpunkt in german, semicolon is... semikolon
2013-03-13T20:19:18 < zyp> yay for being coherent
2013-03-13T20:19:32 < zyp> consistent*
2013-03-13T20:19:40 <+Steffanx> It's "dubbelepunt" here and "puntkomma" :)
2013-03-13T20:19:59 < zyp> in norwegian we have «kolon» and «semikolon»
2013-03-13T20:20:01 < BrainDamage> here we have "due punti" and "punto e virgola"
2013-03-13T20:20:12 <+Steffanx> wonderful language .. italian
2013-03-13T20:20:26 < Erlkoenig> ha... alternative for semikolon is also "Strichpunkt", "line-dot"
2013-03-13T20:20:30 < zyp> and comma is «komma»
2013-03-13T20:20:39 <+Steffanx> Whoa, i know norwegian
2013-03-13T20:20:46 <+Steffanx> I can say "komma"
2013-03-13T20:20:47 < BrainDamage> which is literally "2 dots", and "dot and curved dash"
2013-03-13T20:21:14 < zyp> I guess whoever came up with it was pretty lazy
2013-03-13T20:21:32 < zyp> «let's just grab the english terms and replace the c with a k»
2013-03-13T20:21:34 < Erlkoenig> my friend knows italian... theoretically :>
2013-03-13T20:21:56 < BrainDamage> I'm sorry for him
2013-03-13T20:22:17 <+Steffanx> zyp, in dutch it's exactly like that. "double dot" and "dot comma" :)
2013-03-13T20:22:29 < jpa-> kom, kom, steffanx, vi ska fuck några kommor
2013-03-13T20:22:43 < zyp> haha
2013-03-13T20:22:53 < Erlkoenig> my uni's logo looks like a colon, so some uni newspaper is called "doppelpunkt" for colon...
2013-03-13T20:23:08 <+Steffanx> Swedish jpa- ?
2013-03-13T20:23:11 < jpa-> fucka, fucker, fuckade, fuckat?
2013-03-13T20:23:27 < jpa-> Steffanx: ja
2013-03-13T20:24:19 < zyp> isn't swedish actually an official language in finland?
2013-03-13T20:24:45 <+Steffanx> In finnish it would've been more like: gggooifufh, gggooifufh, steffanx gohpsd nnniií ôdfnvd sdffghfń
2013-03-13T20:24:53 <+Steffanx> long word language ftw
2013-03-13T20:25:28 < emeb> +1 for repeated consonants.
2013-03-13T20:25:51 < emeb> I bet finnish keyboards are a hoot.
2013-03-13T20:27:55 <+Steffanx> ł
2013-03-13T20:29:08 < zyp> I bet there are keys on them
2013-03-13T20:29:19 < BrainDamage> §
2013-03-13T20:34:13 < jpa-> zyp: it is, but they never teach the important words in schools
2013-03-13T20:34:42 < zyp> like «fuck», you mean?
2013-03-13T20:34:47 < jpa-> yeah
2013-03-13T20:35:04 < emeb> very few schools teach the "important" words, in any language.
2013-03-13T20:35:36 < jpa-> zyp: vi borde träffas någontid så jag kunde ånvanda min mycket bra svenskspråkiga skillz
2013-03-13T20:35:51 < jpa-> *änvanda
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2013-03-13T20:36:42 < qyx_> i understood last two words
2013-03-13T20:37:42 < zyp> I understood all, so he's doing something right
2013-03-13T20:37:53 < zyp> :)
2013-03-13T20:37:57 < jpa-> :)
2013-03-13T20:38:17 < zyp> where in finland are you located?
2013-03-13T20:38:24 < jpa-> finally i have found the reason why swedish is a mandatory subject in finnish schools
2013-03-13T20:38:34 < jpa-> just so that we can communicate with the mighty norwegians
2013-03-13T20:38:39 < zyp> :p
2013-03-13T20:38:46 < jpa-> tampere
2013-03-13T20:39:08 < zyp> ah
2013-03-13T20:39:15 < dirty_d> zyp, you have a flying video yet?
2013-03-13T20:39:34 < jpa-> though thinking about moving once/if i graduate
2013-03-13T20:39:42 < zyp> dirty_d, depends on your definition of flying
2013-03-13T20:40:02 < dirty_d> zyp, lol let me see
2013-03-13T20:40:06 < jpa-> flying = crashing into things
2013-03-13T20:40:29 < zyp> my last video that I showed you had a brief period of flying, until it ran out of string and bounced back :p
2013-03-13T20:41:01 < dirty_d> yea
2013-03-13T20:42:04 < zyp> jpa-, I think the furthest I've been into finland is Rovaniemi, driving from sweden
2013-03-13T20:42:16 < zyp> unless you count plane transfers in helsinki
2013-03-13T20:42:40 < zyp> come to think of it; I'm flying to helsinki for a transfer again in two weeks :)
2013-03-13T20:42:53 < jpa-> the furthest I've been into norway is Oulu..
2013-03-13T20:43:04 < zyp> hah
2013-03-13T20:45:39 < Robint91> did someone here tried pawn? http://www.compuphase.com/pawn/pawn.htm
2013-03-13T20:45:49 < jpa-> i did
2013-03-13T20:46:08 < Robint91> jpa-, on a stm32?
2013-03-13T20:46:11 < jpa-> https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/QuadPawn    yes
2013-03-13T20:46:34 < Robint91> jpa-, I have seen that video
2013-03-13T20:46:40 < Erlkoenig> Script languages = "yes", C++ = "nooo" ? :D
2013-03-13T20:46:52 < jpa-> Erlkoenig: i say yes to c++ also
2013-03-13T20:47:00 < Erlkoenig> good ;)
2013-03-13T20:47:09 < jpa-> Erlkoenig: note that the internet is not a single personality :)
2013-03-13T20:47:22 < jpa-> even though it may appear so unless your irc client shows nicks
2013-03-13T20:47:26 < Erlkoenig> wat really???
2013-03-13T20:47:34 < gxti> jpa-: we find your assertion disturbing
2013-03-13T20:47:36 < Erlkoenig> my whole life is a lie
2013-03-13T20:48:18 <+Steffanx> So you are a girl?
2013-03-13T20:48:20 <+Steffanx> w00t
2013-03-13T20:48:23 < jpa-> i would love to live in the early years of skynet, when it would just sneak into random internet conversations
2013-03-13T20:49:13 < Robint91> jpa-, does it work well?
2013-03-13T20:49:35 < jpa-> Robint91: it works well, but the language does have its limitations
2013-03-13T20:49:56 < jpa-> (but it's still way better than basic, and also really tiny)
2013-03-13T20:50:11 <+Steffanx> Go with lua Robint91, dekar did that :)
2013-03-13T20:50:30 < jpa-> lua is fine if you can spare ~100kB of RAM
2013-03-13T20:50:30 < Robint91> jpa-, I need to just some basic scriptings stuff, nothing to fancy
2013-03-13T20:50:33 <+Steffanx> I think he even uses it in a commercial product
2013-03-13T20:50:45 < jpa-> Robint91: pawn should do fine then
2013-03-13T20:51:09 < jpa-> i'm using pawn to write complete applications, so that's where the limitations show up
2013-03-13T20:52:36 < Robint91> jpa-, I have an application that has 4 inputs and 4 output, that need to have some logical binding, the problem is that I need something that I can program it the field, without messing other firmware stuff
2013-03-13T20:52:45 < Robint91> like decoding of the DMX512
2013-03-13T20:52:58 < Robint91> which will be fully handled by the native code
2013-03-13T20:53:39 < Robint91> jpa-, how large the pawn?
2013-03-13T20:53:42 < jpa-> Robint91: sounds reasonable.. do you have extra memory or would you store the pawn program in a separate flash segment on the STM32?
2013-03-13T20:53:47 -!- jon1012 [~jon@foresight/developer/jon1012] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2013-03-13T20:53:48 < jpa-> Robint91: less than 10kB
2013-03-13T20:53:52 < zyp> I'm using C++ to write complete applications, and if I wanted to make it user extendable I'd write a dynamic linker that can load user code compiled to shared objects
2013-03-13T20:53:59 < Robint91> will it run on a STM32F103C
2013-03-13T20:54:06 < Robint91> zyp, we aren't going to do that
2013-03-13T20:54:33 < Erlkoenig> +1 zyp
2013-03-13T20:54:51 < Robint91> jpa-, nice, I have 8kib of external i2c eeprom, I think most programs will be sub 100loc
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2013-03-13T20:55:57 <+Steffanx> All 1 minute of silence for the new pope!
2013-03-13T20:56:10 <+Steffanx> ( not that i care )
2013-03-13T20:56:19 < jpa-> Robint91: hmm.. st's site sucks so i can't find the info on STM32F103C.. i'm myself using it on STM32F103VCT6
2013-03-13T20:56:22 < Robint91> Steffanx, you are a bit behind
2013-03-13T20:56:33 < Robint91> jpa-, *STM32F103RC
2013-03-13T20:56:34 <+Steffanx> only 50 minutes
2013-03-13T20:56:40 < Robint91> jpa-, 128kb/20kb
2013-03-13T20:56:53 <+Steffanx> but it's trending topic on twitter, so it's IMPORTANT
2013-03-13T20:56:54 < zyp> I'm even more behind, haven't heard about it
2013-03-13T20:56:59 < zyp> until now
2013-03-13T20:57:05 < Robint91> jpa-, even the application we use now, is only 20kib
2013-03-13T20:57:08 < jpa-> Robint91: should work fine
2013-03-13T20:57:28 <+Steffanx> Too bad we didn't make the 1 minute of silence
2013-03-13T20:57:39 < jpa-> Robint91: if you want to leave more RAM free, store the pawn program in a flash segment.. then you can execute it in place, without loading it into RAM
2013-03-13T20:58:19 < jpa-> Steffanx: we did it already 50 minutes ago
2013-03-13T20:58:42 < gxti> who brought this pope home? take it back the pope store, i don't want it
2013-03-13T20:58:54 <+Steffanx> You had to say "OLD" jpa-
2013-03-13T20:59:10 < jpa-> Steffanx: it's "wanha" in finnish
2013-03-13T21:00:51 <+Steffanx> ok, I'll remember that one
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2013-03-13T21:13:16 < Robint91> pope is coming out of the window
2013-03-13T21:14:30 <+Steffanx> w00t
2013-03-13T21:14:45 < Erlkoenig> poop is coming out of...
2013-03-13T21:14:54 < Robint91> my anus?
2013-03-13T21:15:00 < jpa-> pink smoke rises from the chimney and the pope steps out of the closet
2013-03-13T21:15:00 < Robint91> your anus?
2013-03-13T21:15:16 <+Steffanx> the closest .. the closest has glass in the doors
2013-03-13T21:15:39 < jpa-> Steffanx' anus has glass doors? sweet
2013-03-13T21:15:52 < Robint91> jpa-, no context
2013-03-13T21:15:56 <+Steffanx> jpa-, jpa- jpa-  .....
2013-03-13T21:16:03 <+Steffanx> Grow up!
2013-03-13T21:16:21 < jpa-> growing up would just make me sadder
2013-03-13T21:16:44 < Tectu> <-sBNC> [Wed March 13 2013 11:39:19]: Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-177-214-199.range86-177.btcentralplus.com) (##stm32): im sure Tectu would approve
2013-03-13T21:16:45 <+Steffanx> Makes you even a better made for your parrot
2013-03-13T21:16:47 < Tectu> Laurenceb, what was that about?
2013-03-13T21:16:54 <+Steffanx> zlog
2013-03-13T21:16:55 < zlog> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-13.html
2013-03-13T21:17:11 <+Steffanx> ^^ Tectu
2013-03-13T21:17:19 < Tectu> thanks Steffanx !
2013-03-13T21:17:34 < Robint91> zlog
2013-03-13T21:17:34 < zlog> Robint91: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-13.html
2013-03-13T21:17:46 < Erlkoenig> better a mouse that registers as flash drive with an autexec.inf on it
2013-03-13T21:17:54 < Erlkoenig> and a virus.exe
2013-03-13T21:18:06 < Erlkoenig> or a password-logging keyboard
2013-03-13T21:18:39 <+Steffanx> zlog listens to everyone mr T 91
2013-03-13T21:18:39 < zlog> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-13.html
2013-03-13T21:20:01 < Robint91> Steffanx, what does zlog do more?
2013-03-13T21:20:08 <+Steffanx> nothing
2013-03-13T21:20:12 < Robint91> zlog help
2013-03-13T21:20:12 < zlog> Robint91: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-13.html
2013-03-13T21:20:15 < jpa-> gives out free z80's
2013-03-13T21:20:18 < Robint91> zlog 2 + 2
2013-03-13T21:20:18 < zlog> Robint91: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-13.html
2013-03-13T21:20:24 <+Steffanx>  jpa- /topic
2013-03-13T21:20:36 < jpa-> oh crap
2013-03-13T21:23:36 < Robint91> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP1rmsCPbQU
2013-03-13T21:26:41 < Robint91> it is a pope from Buenos Aires
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2013-03-13T21:39:58 <+Steffanx> You care about poop and shit Robint91 ?
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2013-03-13T22:08:41 < Laurenceb_> http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23879629.jpg
2013-03-13T22:08:43 < Laurenceb_> too soon?
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2013-03-13T22:11:56 <+Steffanx> Too slow
2013-03-13T22:12:00 <+Steffanx> that website
2013-03-13T22:12:12 <+Steffanx> No wasn't that something from last year?
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2013-03-13T22:29:26 < karlp> thanks for the video Robint91  :)
2013-03-13T22:29:47 < karlp> jpa-: I've been to Tampere!
2013-03-13T22:30:31 < karlp> I was on one of the first flights back into europe after eyjafjalljökull,
2013-03-13T22:30:54 < karlp> I was meant to be going to helsinki to catch a bus to petersburg, but it was still ashy in helsinki,
2013-03-13T22:31:14 < karlp> landed in tampere, and had journos everywhere taking pictures and trying to interview travellers
2013-03-13T22:37:21 <+Steffanx> It was also pretty ashy when the aerial photos were taken that are used by google maps :D
2013-03-13T22:37:35 < karlp> it's ashy in town again at the moment.
2013-03-13T22:37:49 <+Steffanx> uh?
2013-03-13T22:37:57 < karlp> nice storm from the east bringing grimsvötn ash into town.
2013-03-13T22:38:00 <+Steffanx> Another vulcano?
2013-03-13T22:38:16 < karlp> well, eyjafjallajökull was what, 2010?
2013-03-13T22:38:25 < karlp> grísmvötn was 2011, with about 10 times more ash,
2013-03-13T22:38:42 < karlp> but it put it all out in less than a day and most of it fell to the ground in iceland
2013-03-13T22:38:57 <+Steffanx> Yeah but: http://share.naffets.nl/tampere-20130313-213849.png :D
2013-03-13T22:39:25 < karlp> it only had fragments of blue when I was there too: http://tweak.net.au/pics2/2010/April/petersburg3/pichtml/web_2010_04_19-12_26_49--img_3115.html
2013-03-13T22:40:08 <+Steffanx> It was !@#^ hot and also rainy when i was in finland :(
2013-03-13T22:40:24 <+Steffanx> Actually it was hot, cold and rainy
2013-03-13T22:41:11 <+Steffanx> ( was in south east finland, close to the russian border )
2013-03-13T22:44:09 < qyx_> i have my vlf antenna running and something is there on 57kHz
2013-03-13T22:44:32 < qyx_> what could it be?
2013-03-13T22:45:39 < qyx_> 2kHz bw
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2013-03-13T22:58:21 < Robint91> karlp, that video still gets me rofl after all these years
2013-03-13T22:58:28 < Robint91> karlp, they need to make a new one
2013-03-13T23:02:42 < Erlkoenig> [19:25:26] <zyp> I2S3ext_SD seem to be present on a few different AF numbers on different pins, so check the value of that. -- is there any documentation about that and possibly about other AF's that have different numbers for different Pin's?
2013-03-13T23:08:37 < Erlkoenig> google yields... your quote on zloh.
2013-03-13T23:08:43 < Erlkoenig> *zlog
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2013-03-13T23:13:30 < Erlkoenig> ah the Datasheet says what AF has what number on what Pin correctly... but the table is huge and unparsable
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2013-03-13T23:15:46 < Erlkoenig> and the MicroXplorer's XML files don't contain AF numbers :-(
2013-03-13T23:16:09 <+Steffanx> not? Aw :)
2013-03-13T23:17:01 <+Steffanx> Oh, the tools seems to use the names from the stm32 peripheral lib indeed :(
2013-03-13T23:17:26 <+Steffanx> Just enother file oyu have to parse Erlkoenig :P
2013-03-13T23:19:03 < Erlkoenig> the StdPeriph Source files? not :D
2013-03-13T23:19:09 <+Steffanx> Why not?
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2013-03-13T23:20:21 < Erlkoenig> because they don't contain any information either what AF has what number on what pin
2013-03-13T23:25:10 <+Steffanx> but the xml files do contain this info not?
2013-03-13T23:25:28 <+Steffanx> And the peripheral lib the info about what's in the xml file
2013-03-13T23:26:04 < Erlkoenig> the xml files don't contain any AF numbers :/
2013-03-13T23:26:39 < Erlkoenig> microXplorer's code generation does not produce AF numbers...
2013-03-13T23:27:03 <+Steffanx> Hmm, I .. i guess I saw something that wasn't there?
2013-03-13T23:27:16 <+Steffanx> You still have to specify them?
2013-03-13T23:27:21 < Erlkoenig> and the stdperiphal lib just assumes an AF has the same number on every pin
2013-03-13T23:28:46 <+Steffanx> So far your automagically code generation :)
2013-03-13T23:29:37 < Erlkoenig> my thing works, it just won't cope for that one special case about different AF numbers that even the StdPeriph ignores
2013-03-13T23:30:01 <+Steffanx> "works"  :P
2013-03-13T23:30:18 < Erlkoenig> and uses 1/10 of the lines the stdperiph uses
2013-03-13T23:30:41 <+Steffanx> The one case it doesn't work in can be ignore because it's insigificant? :)
2013-03-13T23:31:06 < Erlkoenig> because i can't find out any information about when that case occurs >.<
2013-03-13T23:31:15 < Erlkoenig> except that multiple-page-table
2013-03-13T23:31:29 < Erlkoenig> i wonder how the StdPeriph's code was generated... must be some meta-programming language or just XML->C
2013-03-13T23:31:45 <+Steffanx> You think it's generated?
2013-03-13T23:34:14 < Erlkoenig> no human brain could stand writing such code
2013-03-13T23:37:47 <+Steffanx> ST ST ST :P
2013-03-13T23:38:01 <+Steffanx> nuff said
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2013-03-13T23:39:35 < Erlkoenig> no, it's impossible
2013-03-13T23:39:43 < Erlkoenig> also it looks too "perfect"
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2013-03-13T23:57:09 < Erlkoenig> okay i'm stupid, the microXplorer DOES generate AF initialization code... however, it's INVALID, it always uses AF_6 for I2S3_ext_SD
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2013-03-14T00:28:07 <+Steffanx> That's 'that
2013-03-14T00:28:11 <+Steffanx> ' bug Erlkoenig :)
2013-03-14T00:28:22 < Erlkoenig> wat?
2013-03-14T00:28:52 <+Steffanx> that .. assuming SD <=> AF_6 stuff
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2013-03-14T01:23:56 < dongs> d o n g s
2013-03-14T01:24:21 < dongs> microxplorer generates code now?
2013-03-14T01:24:31 < dongs> i found it a bit annoyingly buggy
2013-03-14T01:30:08 <+Steffanx> It does look like a fancy too
2013-03-14T01:30:17 <+Steffanx> but java..
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2013-03-14T01:32:36 < Laurenceb_> wtf is microexplorer?
2013-03-14T01:33:39  * zyp tries to resist the temptation to say «a tool to search for your dick»
2013-03-14T01:34:34 < BJfreeman> if that is resiting, hate to see giving in :P
2013-03-14T01:34:46 < BJfreeman> resisting
2013-03-14T01:34:59 <+Steffanx> zyp is on drugs?
2013-03-14T01:35:01 <+Steffanx> alcohol?
2013-03-14T01:35:07 <+Steffanx> or just ... not being zyp
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2013-03-14T01:35:38 <+Steffanx> Seriously, our zyp NEVER says things like that
2013-03-14T01:35:59 < Laurenceb_> http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/ridgid/video-inspection/30063-microexplorer.htm
2013-03-14T01:36:08 < Laurenceb_> looks like he is correct
2013-03-14T01:36:38 <+Steffanx> http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/tools/PF251717 <= that
2013-03-14T01:36:58 <+Steffanx> windows only setup, but the result works al "all" OSs
2013-03-14T01:37:04 <+Steffanx> weird shit ST
2013-03-14T01:37:16 < Laurenceb_> wtf
2013-03-14T01:37:29 < Laurenceb_> some people must be epically lazy
2013-03-14T01:37:43 <+Steffanx> "the result" = the stuff after installation
2013-03-14T01:37:45 < Erlkoenig> or epically uncompetent
2013-03-14T01:38:05 <+Steffanx> or Laurenceb
2013-03-14T01:38:20 < Laurenceb_> lulwut
2013-03-14T01:38:25 < Laurenceb_> trollanx
2013-03-14T01:38:33 <+Steffanx> muha
2013-03-14T01:38:44 < Laurenceb_> "In a first step, MicroXplorer helps find the STM32s in the ST portfolio that feature the required peripherals."
2013-03-14T01:38:48 < Laurenceb_> ok maybe thats useful
2013-03-14T01:39:00 <+Steffanx> except for it not showing flash/ram sizes
2013-03-14T01:39:29 <+Steffanx> bbut imho this looks 100 times better than the online crap
2013-03-14T01:39:31 <+Steffanx> http://share.naffets.nl/a-20130312-172511.svg
2013-03-14T01:39:57 <+Steffanx> ( blame Erlkoenig for the .svg )
2013-03-14T01:40:04 < Erlkoenig> gah
2013-03-14T01:40:06 < Erlkoenig> i was for png
2013-03-14T01:40:52 < GargantuaSauce> it is a png
2013-03-14T01:40:53 < Laurenceb_> downloading...
2013-03-14T01:41:01 < GargantuaSauce> it just happens to be a png encoded in base64 and embedded in xml
2013-03-14T01:41:07 <+Steffanx> windows Laurence_ ?
2013-03-14T01:41:09 < GargantuaSauce> sounds like an Erlkoenig solution to me
2013-03-14T01:41:21 <+Steffanx> zlog
2013-03-14T01:41:21 < zlog> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-13.html
2013-03-14T01:41:32 < Laurenceb_> wine Steffanx
2013-03-14T01:41:46 < Erlkoenig> what an "erlkoenig solution"
2013-03-14T01:41:47 <+Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/MicroXplorer.zip <=
2013-03-14T01:41:49 < Erlkoenig> my solutions are genius
2013-03-14T01:41:51 <+Steffanx> all you need is java Laurenceb_
2013-03-14T01:42:13 <+Steffanx> Just download that zip, extract it and run
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2013-03-14T01:42:44 < Erlkoenig> included is free nethelandish virus
2013-03-14T01:42:52 <+Steffanx> For some reason ST made a windows only setup for something that runs on 'every' os that runs java crap
2013-03-14T01:42:54 < Erlkoenig> will install cheese and grass on your HDD
2013-03-14T01:43:06 <+Steffanx> *netherlandish
2013-03-14T01:43:29 < Laurenceb_> wtf
2013-03-14T01:43:30 < qyx_> omg that svg
2013-03-14T01:43:43 < Laurenceb_> i dont seem to have correct java
2013-03-14T01:43:51 <+Steffanx> poor you
2013-03-14T01:43:56 < Erlkoenig> https://www.google.de/search?q=the+nether&tbm=isch   <- the netherlands :>
2013-03-14T01:44:13 <+Steffanx> wtf is that?
2013-03-14T01:44:22 < Erlkoenig> erm
2013-03-14T01:44:23 < Erlkoenig> srsly?
2013-03-14T01:44:25 <+Steffanx> go away with you mind crap crap
2013-03-14T01:44:37 < Erlkoenig> the nether is the underworld of Minecraft
2013-03-14T01:44:51 <+Steffanx> MineCraft is lego for .. grown mans
2013-03-14T01:44:57 < qyx_> is there clear jar available somewhere?
2013-03-14T01:45:04 < qyx_> or do i have to run that ... exe
2013-03-14T01:45:24 <+Steffanx> http://www.naffets.nl/share/MicroXplorer.zip  that is without exe not?
2013-03-14T01:45:37 <+Steffanx> unless you don't trust me as a source for it
2013-03-14T01:45:42 <+Steffanx> but that's your problem, not mine
2013-03-14T01:45:46 < qyx_> i just downloaded from st.com and it has exe inside
2013-03-14T01:45:55 < Laurenceb_> wtf
2013-03-14T01:46:06 < qyx_> ah
2013-03-14T01:46:08 < qyx_> that yours is ok
2013-03-14T01:46:12 <+Steffanx> Yes, that zip is a result of the setup qyx_,
2013-03-14T01:46:15 < Laurenceb_> how do i run this
2013-03-14T01:46:20 <+Steffanx> click click
2013-03-14T01:46:25 < Erlkoenig> java -jar Microxplorer.jar
2013-03-14T01:46:25 < Laurenceb_> on what?
2013-03-14T01:46:31 <+Steffanx> .jar :)
2013-03-14T01:46:33 < Laurenceb_> ah i see theres a jar file
2013-03-14T01:46:58 < Laurenceb_> oooh fancy
2013-03-14T01:47:07 < qyx_> it somehow works
2013-03-14T01:47:09 < qyx_> Steffanx: thx
2013-03-14T01:47:15 < Laurenceb_> seems to work
2013-03-14T01:47:17 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb_ checkout the code generation!
2013-03-14T01:47:22 <+Steffanx> It includes spaces!
2013-03-14T01:47:25 <+Steffanx> and comments!
2013-03-14T01:47:26 < Laurenceb_> troll
2013-03-14T01:47:32 < qyx_> omg that old java gui toolkit
2013-03-14T01:47:42 < Erlkoenig> and invalid AF codes
2013-03-14T01:48:12 <+Steffanx> When you use the peripheral lib that is not an issue
2013-03-14T01:48:18 < Erlkoenig> it IS an issue.
2013-03-14T01:48:22 <+Steffanx> *not another issue
2013-03-14T01:48:24 < Erlkoenig> it will result in it not working
2013-03-14T01:48:32 < Erlkoenig> you have to manually fix the code
2013-03-14T01:49:14 <+Steffanx> Erlkoenig suddenly got a ST peripheral library phobia
2013-03-14T01:49:19 <+Steffanx> *an
2013-03-14T01:49:43 < Laurenceb_> haha nice
2013-03-14T01:49:48 < Laurenceb_> includes ST headers
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2013-03-14T01:50:48 < Erlkoenig> select an STM32F407VG, activate I2S3 Full Duplex, map the i2s3_ext_sd pin to PB4 or PC11, generate code. the code will contain GPIO_AF_SPI3, which is WRONG for PB4 (has to be GPIO_AF_I2S3ext)
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2013-03-14T01:51:14 < Erlkoenig> while for PC11, GPIO_AF_SPI3 is required
2013-03-14T01:51:42 < zyp> this is an error you also would have made if I didn't make you aware of it :p
2013-03-14T01:51:48 < qyx_> i would be happier if it was simple web app
2013-03-14T01:51:51 < qyx_> btw its too slow
2013-03-14T01:52:04 < Erlkoenig> yes, thanks zyp ;-) ... but looks like eve ST made the error
2013-03-14T01:52:04 < cTn> Google Reader will be retired on July 1, 2013.
2013-03-14T01:52:06 < cTn> dafuq ?
2013-03-14T01:52:09 < zyp> qyx_, what makes you think ST can make simple web apps? :p
2013-03-14T01:52:22 < zyp> cTn, just read that
2013-03-14T01:52:33 < GargantuaSauce> it is my experience that good hardware manufacturers make awful software
2013-03-14T01:52:48 < zyp> I was just wondering if there are any decent replacements
2013-03-14T01:52:53 < qyx_> but srsly 10MB for that?
2013-03-14T01:53:01 < Erlkoenig> if it applies vice-versa, the Microsoft Sourface must be great \o/
2013-03-14T01:53:20 < zyp> qyx_, are you gonna put it on floppies?
2013-03-14T01:53:31 < cTn> should probably look into it tomorrow
2013-03-14T01:53:37 < Erlkoenig> Gargantuasauce: Atmel's Software is quite nice, while the hardware is just outdated but still "good"
2013-03-14T01:54:02  * Laurenceb_ zzz
2013-03-14T01:54:48 < zyp> cTn, I'm probably gonna wait a few months and let the collective userbase come up with a consensus of what the most decent replacement would be
2013-03-14T01:54:52 < zyp> because I'm lazy
2013-03-14T01:55:00 < cTn> hehe
2013-03-14T01:55:06 < cTn> i cant live without my news =<
2013-03-14T01:55:23 < zyp> heh
2013-03-14T01:55:43 < cTn> i am kinda limited to be within this 4 walls
2013-03-14T01:56:01 < cTn> not much to do anyway, without google reader, hell freezes over
2013-03-14T01:56:07 < zyp> I have two news sites I regularly check for news, don't need RSS for that
2013-03-14T01:56:12 <+Steffanx> wtf is google reader
2013-03-14T01:56:17 <+Steffanx> i think i never used that
2013-03-14T01:56:20 < zyp> Steffanx, rss reader
2013-03-14T01:56:49 <+Steffanx> Ooh, download one of the 1000 alternatives
2013-03-14T01:56:57 < zyp> I mostly use it for sites where people write interesting stuff now and then
2013-03-14T01:56:58 <+Steffanx> or go to one of the 10000 alternative websites?
2013-03-14T01:57:08 < zyp> *yawn*
2013-03-14T01:57:17 <+Steffanx> morning
2013-03-14T01:57:27 < zyp> I'm not interested in searching for one that is decent
2013-03-14T01:57:48 <+Steffanx> Force google to open source it
2013-03-14T01:58:00 < karlp> hahahahaha
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2013-03-14T01:58:45 <+Steffanx> Something wrong in iceland?
2013-03-14T01:59:20 < zyp> karlp's blog is one of the sites I'm tracking with google reader
2013-03-14T02:00:43 <+Steffanx> For the 1 message he posts that every half a year?
2013-03-14T02:01:11 <+Steffanx> Nothing personal, it's just how the average blog works
2013-03-14T02:01:31 <+Steffanx> Whoa, its almost 1/month
2013-03-14T02:04:16 < zyp> exactly, and that's why rss readers are nice
2013-03-14T02:04:26 < karlp> sometimes more than once a motnh, sometimes less.
2013-03-14T02:04:38 < zyp> because then I get notified when they write anything, and doesn't have to care about it otherwise
2013-03-14T02:04:38 < karlp> depends what I'm doing :)
2013-03-14T02:04:55 < zyp> for news I just check news sites directly
2013-03-14T02:05:51 < zyp> I'm not interested in reading everything on news sites anyway, everything that's actually interesting will be posted on irc too so there's not really any chance of missing it
2013-03-14T02:08:21 <+Steffanx> dont fancy browsers have a rss reader?
2013-03-14T02:08:23 <+Steffanx> or mail clients
2013-03-14T02:08:56 <+Steffanx> Change .. change is hard. i know :P
2013-03-14T02:09:01 < zyp> I use google's browser and google's mail client :p
2013-03-14T02:09:03 <+Steffanx> *chaning
2013-03-14T02:09:15 < zyp> and google's rss reader, which is now being shut down :p
2013-03-14T02:09:17 <+Steffanx> changing
2013-03-14T02:09:18 < BrainDamage> there's google's news reader
2013-03-14T02:09:21 < BrainDamage> ah
2013-03-14T02:09:30 <+Steffanx> googles mail client as in gmail, zyp ?
2013-03-14T02:09:33 < zyp> yes
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2013-03-14T03:20:31 < donigs> for the tvs shit, do i want standoff voltage or breakdown voltage?
2013-03-14T03:20:33 < donigs> for my 5.5 limit
2013-03-14T03:27:18 < zippe> Breakdown is when it starts conducting
2013-03-14T03:27:29 < zippe> So you want to keep that well away from your normal operating voltage
2013-03-14T03:29:23 < zippe> standoff voltage is the "no significant leakage below this voltage" level
2013-03-14T03:38:08 < donigs> mkay
2013-03-14T03:43:00 < Erlkoenig> holy shit my super-awesome-elegant-C++-Library for GPIO works on 1st try on the hardware.
2013-03-14T03:43:35 < donigs> pfft
2013-03-14T03:43:42 < donigs> "elegant" and "c++"
2013-03-14T03:43:45 < Erlkoenig> but it's blinking!!11
2013-03-14T03:45:09 < Erlkoenig> it uses 1/10 of StdPeriph's code length, does static (compile-time) checking for correct AF's, and requires much less typework
2013-03-14T03:46:36 < donigs> bcas.tv/paste or it didnt happen
2013-03-14T03:47:51 < Erlkoenig> http://games.2g2s.de/zeug/
2013-03-14T03:47:53 < Erlkoenig> oohps
2013-03-14T03:47:57 < Erlkoenig> http://games.2g2s.de/zeug/gpio.hh
2013-03-14T03:48:08 < donigs> jesus
2013-03-14T03:48:09 < donigs> boost?!
2013-03-14T03:48:37 < Erlkoenig> it's only for the static checking, doesn't produce any code
2013-03-14T03:52:12 < donigs> *reinterpret_cast<Port*>(0x40020000+(static_cast<uint32_t>(m_PortNum) << 10
2013-03-14T03:52:13 < donigs> loll
2013-03-14T03:52:20 < donigs> hardcore.
2013-03-14T03:53:19 < Erlkoenig> looks a bit weird, but makes nice API
2013-03-14T03:53:45 < Erlkoenig> but when dealing with lowlevel register access you will always end up with pointer arithmetics and bit fiddling
2013-03-14T03:54:28 < donigs> where do you typesafe check AF?
2013-03-14T03:55:00 < Erlkoenig> mostly line 85, 87
2013-03-14T03:55:14 < donigs> oh haha
2013-03-14T03:55:34 < Erlkoenig> they only allow casting PinX<...> to an other PinX<...> which must have a subset of AF's associated
2013-03-14T03:56:15 < Erlkoenig> so you could do:    void setUpMyTimer (STM32::AF::TIM3::PT pin) { ...         and you could only pass in Pin instances that have a TIM3 AF
2013-03-14T04:02:53 < dongs> hm crap, i think i need unidirectional tvs?
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2013-03-14T04:09:56 < dongs> 5.5V TVS only comes in like 1x1mm packages
2013-03-14T04:09:56 < dongs> fuck
2013-03-14T04:14:32 < zippe> huh?
2013-03-14T04:14:39 < zippe> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PESD5Z6.0,115/568-7365-1-ND/2697424
2013-03-14T04:14:56 < zippe> 1mm square is huge. Get with the program. 8)
2013-03-14T04:15:17 < zippe> Did you want to hand-solder these?
2013-03-14T04:15:28 < dongs> no this is all machine assembled
2013-03-14T04:15:43 < dongs> but i dont see how a 0402 part can stand 200W+ of fail
2013-03-14T04:15:58 < zippe> Are you trying to do transient suppression?
2013-03-14T04:16:06 < zippe> Or input overvoltage protection?
2013-03-14T04:16:09 < dongs> no, overvoltage
2013-03-14T04:16:17 < dongs> i tested w/zener and worked prety good
2013-03-14T04:16:23 < zippe> Ah
2013-03-14T04:16:24 < dongs> then pro EEs here tell me I shoulda used a tvs instead
2013-03-14T04:16:36 < dongs> zener was about 1210 pad size, which is reasonable
2013-03-14T04:16:38 < zippe> Well, depends.
2013-03-14T04:16:52 < zippe> If you want to survive overvoltage, you don't want to shunt
2013-03-14T04:16:57 < zippe> Unless you also have a fuse in the line.
2013-03-14T04:17:00 < dongs> I do
2013-03-14T04:17:06 < zippe> Hmm
2013-03-14T04:17:22 < zippe> Well, take a look at the BQ2431x devices as an alternate way of thinking.
2013-03-14T04:17:45 < zippe> Also the NCP349 and friends.
2013-03-14T04:17:47 < dongs> li+ charger frontend?
2013-03-14T04:17:58 < dongs> no i dont have space for a chip + stuff
2013-03-14T04:18:17 < zippe> If you have space for a 1210, you have space for this guy
2013-03-14T04:18:36 < dongs> wait waht hte fuck
2013-03-14T04:18:38 < dongs> ncp349
2013-03-14T04:18:40 < zippe> The OnSemi part has reverse voltage protection, which the TI parts don't
2013-03-14T04:18:42 < dongs> thats a onechip solution?
2013-03-14T04:18:49 < dongs> no external fet?
2013-03-14T04:18:56 < zippe> Correct, same with the TI part
2013-03-14T04:19:06 < zippe> There is a version of the TI device with an internal 5.5V LDO as well
2013-03-14T04:19:09 < mizdo> is this tvs supposed to be used in a signal transmission line?
2013-03-14T04:19:11 < zippe> Good for ~2A
2013-03-14T04:19:24 < dongs> i only need to protect like 100mA
2013-03-14T04:19:36 < dongs> whoa, so maybe ill just use hte ncp shit if its not terribly rapey
2013-03-14T04:19:38 < zippe> Right - just saying, it's a fairly universal thing.
2013-03-14T04:19:47 < zippe> mizdo: this is for power, by the sound of it.
2013-03-14T04:20:00 < dongs> holy crap its 30c
2013-03-14T04:20:03 < dongs> zippe: i love you
2013-03-14T04:20:19 < zippe> dongs: I ended up pairing the TI part with a separate reverse voltage protection device
2013-03-14T04:20:26 < zippe> dongs: glad to be of service 8)
2013-03-14T04:20:46 < zippe> dongs: do note that there are some close relatives of the '439 that you should check out
2013-03-14T04:20:52 < zippe> THey have slightly different characteristics
2013-03-14T04:21:36 < dongs> well basically i just want > 5V stuff
2013-03-14T04:22:15 < dongs> the Vit+ is the voltage?
2013-03-14T04:22:59 < zippe> Sorry, you lost me on that one
2013-03-14T04:23:07 < dongs> looking at http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/parametrics.do?id=523
2013-03-14T04:23:22 < dongs> oh, there's a tooltip over it
2013-03-14T04:23:23 < dongs> yeah
2013-03-14T04:23:31 < dongs> positive-going input threshold voltage
2013-03-14T04:24:10 < zippe> Yeah, they're all basically window comparators
2013-03-14T04:24:45 < zippe> One thing I liked about the TI part is that when you short it, it retries 15x at 200ms intervals, so accidental occasional shorts don't trip it out for good.
2013-03-14T04:25:30 < zippe> But I needed software overcurrent monitoring; if you have a polyswitch then you almost certainly don't care.
2013-03-14T04:25:32 < mizdo> but by the looks of it, you could do the same with the ncp part plus microcontroller
2013-03-14T04:25:52 < dongs> well, im not intrested in trip stuff at all
2013-03-14T04:25:55 < dongs> just disconnect/whatever is fine
2013-03-14T04:26:20 < dongs> this is main vcc going into the stuff so
2013-03-14T04:26:26 < zippe> mizdo: the 349 doesn't do overcurrent protection
2013-03-14T04:26:38 < dongs> i wont be drawing > 100mA so Im not worried there
2013-03-14T04:26:41 < mizdo> ah I see what you mean
2013-03-14T04:26:43 < dongs> i think its actually more liek 50mA or someshit on this
2013-03-14T04:27:05 < zippe> But it does do reverse polarity protection, so if you don't need the current sense it's much cheaper than the TI + Fairchild solution
2013-03-14T04:27:32 < dongs> wait.. it needs vcc?
2013-03-14T04:27:35 < dongs> where teh fuck am I gonna get that from
2013-03-14T04:27:51 < zippe> Huh, what?
2013-03-14T04:27:54 < dongs> huh no right
2013-03-14T04:27:56 < dongs> im confusing myself
2013-03-14T04:28:06 < dongs> never mind ;d
2013-03-14T04:28:29 < zippe> I can't believe that the FR014H5JZ is the only high-side reverse-bias protection device available.
2013-03-14T04:28:35 < zippe> That really pissed me off.
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2013-03-14T04:31:40 < dongs> hmm
2013-03-14T04:33:03 < dongs> whats the diff with nmos/pmos onsemi stuffs
2013-03-14T04:33:08 < dongs> just differnt way to do same shit?
2013-03-14T04:33:22 < mizdo> by the gods, my.st.com sucks so much
2013-03-14T04:33:22 < dongs> those dont have reverse proetcion?
2013-03-14T04:35:39 < zippe> You're looking at the NCP360?
2013-03-14T04:35:46 < dongs> mizdo: i thought pretty much all of ST.com sucks
2013-03-14T04:35:49 < dongs> 361
2013-03-14T04:36:40 < mizdo> yeah but my.st.com does suck specially because it's almost never working properly
2013-03-14T04:36:47 < mizdo> server timeouts and stuff
2013-03-14T04:37:01 < zippe> dongs: I think the deal there is that some of its friends let you send power back out the "input"
2013-03-14T04:37:31 < dongs> I just like it because of sot23-5 i dont really care for 1x1mm DFN6
2013-03-14T04:37:39 < dongs> even though its machine assembly
2013-03-14T04:38:04 < zippe> That's fair
2013-03-14T04:38:12 < zippe> Anyway, hope you find something that works for you
2013-03-14T04:41:11 < dongs> i guess ill do ncp361 + that fairchild thing for reverse
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2013-03-14T05:10:24 < zippe> Well, that blows your SOT23-5 story, since it's basically a DFN as well.
2013-03-14T05:11:20 < dongs> yes but its not a 1x1mm DFN
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2013-03-14T05:17:11 < zippe> Man you're picky. 8)
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2013-03-14T05:42:51 < mizdo> is there a way to force a GPIO pin to drive low, or pull low, even though it's configured as some AF input?
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2013-03-14T05:56:28 < zippe> Reconfigure it as a GPIO?
2013-03-14T05:56:43 < zippe> You might also be able to frob the pull up/down bits in the GPIO config
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2013-03-14T06:03:01 < zippe> It's time for "what's that glyph" again.  Looks like katakana 'ro' with a vertical line through it. Kanji?
2013-03-14T06:05:07 < dongs> pic?
2013-03-14T06:05:18 < zippe> It's OK; looks like Chu
2013-03-14T06:05:21 < zippe> なか、あた（る）、うち
2013-03-14T06:05:33 < dongs> < zippe> ?????(?)???
2013-03-14T06:05:37 < dongs> 2013 and irc still doesnt do unicode
2013-03-14T06:05:46 < zippe> Sorry.
2013-03-14T06:06:03 < zippe> 中
2013-03-14T06:06:03 < zippe> Japanese Reading: なか、あた（る）、うち、チュウ
2013-03-14T06:06:03 < zippe> Unicode: U+4E2D, UTF-8: E4 B8 AD
2013-03-14T06:06:20 < dongs> oh that
2013-03-14T06:06:21 < dongs> yeah
2013-03-14T06:06:43 < zippe> Google says "Among, Show details for, of which there were"
2013-03-14T06:06:58 < zippe> Good enough in context
2013-03-14T06:07:11 < dongs> yeah. its like middle/during/etc sorta meaning depends on context
2013-03-14T06:07:27 < dongs> verb+that = in process of verb. bla bla.
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2013-03-14T07:03:48 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/0nYnIzL.jpg
2013-03-14T07:20:24 < emeb_mac> that's awesome
2013-03-14T07:20:34 < gxti> utf8 on irc works fine
2013-03-14T07:20:57 < gxti> clients tend to fuck it up though, somehow
2013-03-14T07:21:49 < gxti> usually it's the lunix terminal ones, so what's your excuse dongs?
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2013-03-14T07:28:47 < emeb_mac> dongs secretly uses linux terminal IRC client?
2013-03-14T07:36:01 < dongs> nevar
2013-03-14T07:38:26 < emeb_mac> dongs: ever do selective solder?
2013-03-14T07:41:11 < dongs> for DIP stuff?
2013-03-14T07:47:07 < dongs> not sure what other context you can mean it in
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2013-03-14T07:51:37 < emeb_mac> dongs: got a board with smd on the top and th mounted on the back (pots, jacks).
2013-03-14T07:52:11 < emeb_mac> so the th parts can't be wave soldered first or they'd drop out in the smd reflow
2013-03-14T07:52:33 < emeb_mac> and they can't be wave soldered last or the smd would get wiped off by the wave.
2013-03-14T07:53:03 < emeb_mac> so it's either hand solder or selective solder.
2013-03-14T07:54:27 < dongs> right
2013-03-14T07:54:30 < dongs> we did exactly same shit
2013-03-14T07:54:44 < dongs> pcba place made some kinda form on the back to do vapor? or some weird shit soldering
2013-03-14T07:54:51 < dongs> or might have been wave
2013-03-14T07:54:59 < dongs> basically they covered all of pcb except the sticking out dip trash
2013-03-14T07:55:58 < dongs> zippe: fuckit, just used 349.
2013-03-14T07:57:26 < emeb_mac> ok - so do smd 1st, then cover it, then wave solder, then remove cover.
2013-03-14T07:58:17 < dongs> ya
2013-03-14T07:58:25 < emeb_mac> interesting.
2013-03-14T07:58:47 < dongs> top shit was BGA + sdram + misc passives/crap
2013-03-14T07:58:52 < emeb_mac> i guess it all depends on what the cm can process
2013-03-14T07:58:53 < dongs> bga (fpga) was bypassed all on top
2013-03-14T07:58:56 < dongs> so there was no smd on bottom
2013-03-14T07:59:11 < emeb_mac> right. same here.
2013-03-14T07:59:55 < dongs> it was def selective because if you look on teh board you can see trace where the cover was open over diptrash only
2013-03-14T08:00:10 < dongs> lemme take a pic
2013-03-14T08:02:32 < dongs> useless FUCKING IMGUR TRASH
2013-03-14T08:02:47 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/fM5gbdv.jpg
2013-03-14T08:03:08 < dongs> you can see the flux shits as lines
2013-03-14T08:03:50 < emeb_mac> ya
2013-03-14T08:04:18 < emeb_mac> it'll be interesting to see who / how this board gets built.
2013-03-14T08:05:22 < emeb_mac> thx
2013-03-14T08:05:49 < emeb_mac> btw - some interesting demo vids on the youtoob for various selective solder machines. kinda cool.
2013-03-14T08:06:31 < dongs> i wish i had time teo look at that shit.
2013-03-14T08:06:35 < dongs> im behind like 3 projects argh
2013-03-14T08:07:25 < R2COM> so
2013-03-14T08:07:28 < R2COM> whats going on
2013-03-14T08:07:29 < dongs> im gonna mp this shitty board with zippe recommended overvoltage chip without prototyping it lol
2013-03-14T08:07:36 < emeb_mac> busier than a 3-legged man at an ass-kicking contest
2013-03-14T08:07:36 < dongs> if shit doent work im blamin him
2013-03-14T08:07:59 < emeb_mac> bring lawyers guns & money.
2013-03-14T08:08:20 < R2COM> duel guns?
2013-03-14T08:08:41 < R2COM> if not
2013-03-14T08:08:50 < R2COM> lawyers and money needed after guns
2013-03-14T08:08:53 < emeb_mac> spitballs at 30 paces
2013-03-14T08:09:42 < dongs> donging on dongs
2013-03-14T08:10:12 < qyx_> dong dong dong, dongs donged
2013-03-14T08:11:24 < R2COM> dongs is from North Korea?
2013-03-14T08:11:38 < zippe> dongs: I did tell you to use the TI parts
2013-03-14T08:11:49 < R2COM> Kong Dong Bong Jong... ?
2013-03-14T08:12:09 < R2COM> Pong
2013-03-14T08:12:12 < R2COM> Zong
2013-03-14T08:12:44 < emeb_mac> that's enough drinking for you tonight.
2013-03-14T08:13:04 < dongs> zippe: ti part doesnt work for me, it cuts off @ 4V
2013-03-14T08:13:06 < dongs>  i need 5
2013-03-14T08:14:33 < dongs> anyhow, its done and off to the fab
2013-03-14T08:15:27 < dongs> i was already liek 3 weeks behidn on that failproj
2013-03-14T08:21:18 < zippe> er, wait, TI part?
2013-03-14T08:21:28 < zippe> You mean low-side cutoff, or high-side cutoff?
2013-03-14T08:21:44 < dongs> it said something about 4.x v for cutoff because its a lipo manager/protection shit?
2013-03-14T08:21:56 < zippe> That's the battery sense pin
2013-03-14T08:22:07 < zippe> The device itself is OVC around 5.75
2013-03-14T08:22:35 < zippe> The battery sense pin is the "oh shit the charger chip has failed"
2013-03-14T08:22:52 < zippe> Anyway, w/e. If it's in MP, gratz
2013-03-14T08:23:01 < dongs> right lol, not going to change shit now
2013-03-14T08:32:30 < dongs> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-4-layers-p-1383.html?cPath=18
2013-03-14T08:32:34 < dongs> lol
2013-03-14T08:32:36 < dongs> 4 layer aids service
2013-03-14T08:32:37 < dongs> I wonder if 4L drills better
2013-03-14T08:32:56 < dongs> oh waht the fuck
2013-03-14T08:32:59 < dongs> 8mil trace/trace
2013-03-14T08:33:02 < dongs> the fuck
2013-03-14T08:33:05 < dongs> shitheap
2013-03-14T08:33:15 < dongs> my standard spec is liek 5mil
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2013-03-14T09:26:37 < Tectu> I'm reading the F407 datasheet. How comes that it has the SPI2_SCK  pin two times?  It's on PB13 and PB10?
2013-03-14T09:26:49 < dongs> http://au.element14.com/multicomp/mc34453/header-r-angle-smt-8way/dp/1578207?Ntt=157-8207
2013-03-14T09:26:53 < dongs> is this a clone of some molex
2013-03-14T09:30:08 < jpa-> Tectu: most of the pins have more than one possible locations, you can configure it using AFIO
2013-03-14T09:30:55 < Tectu> jpa-, Interesting, didn't know that yet. Thanks!
2013-03-14T09:31:07 < dongs> ...
2013-03-14T09:31:09 < Tectu> jpa-, is there another reason than giving some layouting freedome?
2013-03-14T09:31:21 < dongs> Tectu: you cant be serious
2013-03-14T09:31:41 < Tectu> dongs, I'm sorry that I didn't layout a board myself yet
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2013-03-14T09:31:53 < dongs> hm i must be confusing you wiht someone else
2013-03-14T09:31:57 < dongs> who had stuff produced etc
2013-03-14T09:32:03 < Tectu> no that's not me
2013-03-14T09:32:06 < jpa-> Tectu: mostly that, yeah
2013-03-14T09:32:18 < dongs> it wasnt you doing some uh... I2C/CAN shit?
2013-03-14T09:32:21 < dongs> USB>can or something
2013-03-14T09:32:24 < jpa-> Tectu: also avoids conflicts if there are more than one peripheral on one pin
2013-03-14T09:33:22 < Tectu> dongs, nope, I've never used any CAN at all in my life. Also, I never produced something
2013-03-14T09:33:24 < Tectu> (yet?)
2013-03-14T09:36:23 < Tectu> also, who came of the idea to name the clock SCK (serial clock)? Is there any parallel clock?
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2013-03-14T09:39:41 < jpa-> Tectu: of course there is parallel clock
2013-03-14T09:39:56 < jpa-> on any synchronous memory bus, such as SDRAM, DDR, etc.
2013-03-14T09:40:13 < jpa-> FSMC_CLK on STM32
2013-03-14T09:41:03 < Tectu> so there is a real separation between SCK and CLK?
2013-03-14T09:41:12 < jpa-> not really
2013-03-14T09:41:14 < jpa-> it is just a name
2013-03-14T09:41:19 < jpa-> but names are useful
2013-03-14T09:41:32 < jpa-> if everything was named just "clock" and "data", you'd be very confused
2013-03-14T09:41:44 < Tectu> I see
2013-03-14T09:41:51 < jpa-> in fact, everything could be named just "signal"
2013-03-14T09:41:56 < Tectu> lol
2013-03-14T09:42:02 < Tectu> jpa-, I'd have another question, if I'm allowed to...
2013-03-14T09:42:14 < jpa-> you need to connect PERIPHERAL1_SIGNAL3 and PERIPHERAL1_SIGNAL2
2013-03-14T09:42:30 < jpa-> test your luck
2013-03-14T09:43:12 < Tectu> related to SPI... I see that the SPI peripherials on the STM32 MCU does have a pin called NSS, this is for the CS line, right? I'm not sure what it really is there for, I always thought the CS pin can just be hooked up to a GPIO? (yes, I know, you can do MISO, MOSI and SCK as GPIO as well)
2013-03-14T09:43:48 < dongs> in slave mode.
2013-03-14T09:43:51 < jpa-> NSS is usually useless if you use master mode
2013-03-14T09:44:28 < jpa-> it's mostly for slave mode, though it does have an "instant headache functionality" in master mode also
2013-03-14T09:44:36 < Tectu> o.O
2013-03-14T09:44:38 < Tectu> can you explain?
2013-03-14T09:45:08 < jpa-> it *can* be used to control the CS line of another chip.. but it is freakingly difficult to do so, much more difficult than just using GPIO
2013-03-14T09:45:43 < Tectu> I just hooke dup my CS line to the NSS pin and I'll simply use it as digital push-pull output instead of the AF
2013-03-14T09:46:24 < jpa-> yeah, that's fine
2013-03-14T09:46:35 < dongs> I usually route CS last
2013-03-14T09:46:38 < dongs> and just pinswap to wahtever the fuck
2013-03-14T09:46:50 < dongs> since its like not so important stuff
2013-03-14T09:46:55 < jpa-> yeah, CS is one of the pins that you can move around to make your layout work out :P
2013-03-14T09:54:51 < Tectu> okay, thanks!
2013-03-14T10:02:02 < dongs> lol
2013-03-14T10:02:03 < dongs> modem sounds
2013-03-14T10:02:07 < dongs> over rf
2013-03-14T10:03:30 < Tectu> how does one find out if a crystal needs an additional resistor when you have a drawer full of non-referencable crystals? -.-
2013-03-14T10:04:15 < dongs> you dont
2013-03-14T10:04:20 < dongs> stm32 doesnt need resistor anyway.
2013-03-14T10:04:27 < dongs> neither in series or parallel.
2013-03-14T10:04:39 < Tectu> itsn't it a crystal thing? On olimex board, they do have the place for a resistor
2013-03-14T10:04:45 < Tectu> it's bridged, but it's there
2013-03-14T10:04:58 < dongs> olimexi is trooling you
2013-03-14T10:05:20 < Tectu> I hope you're not
2013-03-14T10:05:22 < jpa-> also discovery boards have a place for parallel resistor
2013-03-14T10:05:32 < jpa-> but i have never needed a resistor
2013-03-14T10:05:43 < jpa-> i think you only need a resistor if your crystal is trooling you
2013-03-14T10:06:26 < Tectu> olimex only has in series to the OUT pin
2013-03-14T10:07:24 < dongs> http://pbx.mine.nu/SDRSharp_20130314_080323Z_70439kHz_AF.wav
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2013-03-14T10:50:39 < Tectu> is it important that the JTAG traces are of equal length or not too far away from the MCU?
2013-03-14T10:51:28 < dongs> not if you gonna use that shit with opensauce crap dongles
2013-03-14T10:51:35 < dongs> then it doesnt fucking mattter
2013-03-14T10:51:46 < dongs> as they wont be driving it anywhere the speed where this starts to matter
2013-03-14T10:51:49 < jpa-> it doesn't matter with anything unless you are talking 10 cm differences in length
2013-03-14T10:52:23 < Tectu> no, more like 2
2013-03-14T10:52:27 < Tectu> cm
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2013-03-14T10:54:53 < dongs> i was under impression swd stuff on F4 is pretty much all in one place
2013-03-14T10:54:57 < dongs> within like couple pins from each other
2013-03-14T10:55:03 < dongs> how are oyu getting 2cm difference in trace lengths
2013-03-14T10:55:05 < jpa-> it is
2013-03-14T10:55:32 < jpa-> maybe he took SWDAT sight-seeing
2013-03-14T10:56:32 < Tectu> I'm using the 20-pole JTAG thing
2013-03-14T10:56:47 < jpa-> why? you like huge connectors?
2013-03-14T10:57:07 < dongs> he likes huge dongs
2013-03-14T10:57:09 < dongs> im sure
2013-03-14T10:57:18 < jpa-> who doesn't?
2013-03-14T10:57:30 < Laurenceb_> flyback
2013-03-14T10:57:37 < Laurenceb_> makes his ass sore
2013-03-14T10:57:41 < Tectu> jpa-, this board is getting huge anyways, so It dosen't really matter
2013-03-14T10:57:53 < Tectu> also what Laurenceb_ said
2013-03-14T10:58:13 < jpa-> ok ok, making flyback's ass sore is always a good reason
2013-03-14T10:58:39 < Laurenceb_> :]  bbl
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2013-03-14T12:22:54 < Tectu> can I tie the BOOT pins directly to GND/VCC or do they need a resistor?
2013-03-14T12:24:02 < zyp> you can tie them directly if you are sure you don't want to override them
2013-03-14T12:24:06 < zyp> I've done that
2013-03-14T12:25:10 < Tectu> I'm not sure what I want... I have an olimex e407 board and I can program it per JTAG, and when the JTAG is not connected, it starts from the internal FLASH
2013-03-14T12:25:14 < Tectu> that's the right way, no?
2013-03-14T12:25:26 < Tectu> therefore both are going to 3.3V?
2013-03-14T12:26:48 < zyp> no, both are going to gnd
2013-03-14T12:27:19 < Tectu> meh, olimex's slinkscreen is missleadig
2013-03-14T12:45:44 < Laurenceb> olimex often fail
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2013-03-14T15:12:29 < Laurenceb> http://www.thezooom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/European-Sperm-Bank.jpg
2013-03-14T15:12:33 < Laurenceb> this is how i ride
2013-03-14T15:17:00 < cTn> hahaa
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2013-03-14T15:52:43 < baird_n10> testing...
2013-03-14T15:52:44 -!- _BJFreeman is now known as BJfreeman
2013-03-14T15:52:57 < baird_n10> wrong channel fffuuuu
2013-03-14T15:54:48 < gxti> failing
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2013-03-14T16:02:57 < Laurenceb> http://www.sickipedia.org/joke/view/1446758
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2013-03-14T16:27:48 < Erlkoenig> lots of snow. looks like a dead TV
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2013-03-14T16:47:14 < sterna1> anyone here who can help with a weird problem?
2013-03-14T16:47:24 < donigs> Laurenceb is into "weird" problems
2013-03-14T16:47:45 < sterna1> I'm using an stm32f407 and is trying to generate very short pulses
2013-03-14T16:47:58 < sterna1> and the timing is extremely crucial
2013-03-14T16:48:08 < sterna1> I need to have timing on cycle level
2013-03-14T16:48:33 < donigs> well, timer and output compare?
2013-03-14T16:48:39 < donigs> whats wrong wiht that?
2013-03-14T16:48:41 < sterna1> nope
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2013-03-14T16:49:01 < gxti> ytep
2013-03-14T16:49:02 < sterna1> is that accurate down to cycle level?
2013-03-14T16:49:10 < donigs> its done by hardware, so yes.
2013-03-14T16:49:33 < sterna1> hmm, how stupid of me not to think of that
2013-03-14T16:49:35 < Erlkoenig> more accurate then using ASM instructions probably, due to pipelining and instruction reordering
2013-03-14T16:49:37 < zyp> sterna1, using timers and output compare is the way to do it.
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2013-03-14T16:50:06 < donigs> having tried  to sync timing-critical stuff by using nops I can definitely say it doesnt work
2013-03-14T16:50:07 < zyp> any software-way of doing it would not be accurate down to cycle level.
2013-03-14T16:50:10 < sterna1> I found out that does not work well using like "set pin, nop nop nop, set other oin"
2013-03-14T16:50:11 < donigs> especially if you got rtos going etc.
2013-03-14T16:50:19 < sterna1> no rtos
2013-03-14T16:50:26 < sterna1> all interrupts are closed
2013-03-14T16:50:29 < donigs> use timer+output compare kthx.
2013-03-14T16:50:41 < sterna1> yeah, I'll try that
2013-03-14T16:50:43 < sterna1> thz
2013-03-14T16:50:45 < sterna1> *thx
2013-03-14T16:50:52 < donigs> if you need higher resolution than 42mhz or wahtever max timer fclk is, get a cpld
2013-03-14T16:51:10 < sterna1> 168MHz i have
2013-03-14T16:51:12 < zyp> F4 is running the timers at the full 168 MHz
2013-03-14T16:51:16 < donigs> is it?
2013-03-14T16:51:20 < zyp> yes
2013-03-14T16:51:21 < donigs> i thought they were runnign @ apb or whatever
2013-03-14T16:51:24 < sterna1> some of them at least I think
2013-03-14T16:51:26 < donigs> ok, well even better then
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2013-03-14T16:54:21 < Tectu> might someone just tell me what's the VCAP pins for on the STM32F4?
2013-03-14T16:54:38 < zyp> caps
2013-03-14T16:54:43 < donigs> its for this thing called caps
2013-03-14T16:54:45 < Tectu> yes, to ground
2013-03-14T16:54:49 < Tectu> but what are they there for?
2013-03-14T16:54:50 < donigs> and they're for the internal 1.2v reg
2013-03-14T16:55:00 < donigs> to make TEH CORE VOLTAGEZ
2013-03-14T16:55:04 < Tectu> I see
2013-03-14T16:55:05 < Tectu> thanks
2013-03-14T16:55:57 < emeb_mac> fucking voltage regulators - how do they work?
2013-03-14T16:56:07 < Tectu> magnets
2013-03-14T16:56:29 < donigs> emeb_mac: did you see how zippe saved me from failing with retarded shit with a $0.30 part
2013-03-14T16:56:56 < donigs> http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=NCP349
2013-03-14T16:56:59 < emeb_mac> donigs: I did not.
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2013-03-14T16:58:29 < emeb_mac> cool part. How do you set the threshold?
2013-03-14T16:58:54 < donigs> you don't
2013-03-14T16:58:54 < zippe> emeb_mac: they're trimmed internally
2013-03-14T16:59:02 < donigs> its 5.6v or someshit
2013-03-14T16:59:04 < donigs> for usb power
2013-03-14T16:59:04 < emeb_mac> ah - part number
2013-03-14T16:59:21 < zippe> There's a similar part from TI with a configurable current limit
2013-03-14T16:59:42 < zippe> BQ2413x
2013-03-14T16:59:52 < emeb_mac> Yeah - there's a rev of the Beagleboard that uses something like that.
2013-03-14T17:00:07 < emeb_mac> Think it was integrated into their PMIC though, so not applicable generally.
2013-03-14T17:00:13 < Laurenceb> so much less fail than rpi
2013-03-14T17:00:48 < emeb_mac> not hard to do
2013-03-14T17:00:59 < Laurenceb> BQ24090 is also good (Ti lipo charger)
2013-03-14T17:01:13 < Laurenceb> use it on loads of my boards
2013-03-14T17:10:37 < dongs> BBQ charger
2013-03-14T17:11:30 < zyp> emeb_mac, have you heard that older linux kernels have a warmer sound that the newer ones?
2013-03-14T17:11:33 < zyp> http://lwn.net/Articles/542664/
2013-03-14T17:11:48 < zyp> apparently, gcc4 is also a disaster for sound quality
2013-03-14T17:11:59 < zyp> so make sure to use gcc3 for all your audio projects
2013-03-14T17:15:04 < Erlkoenig> great :D
2013-03-14T17:19:15 < zyp> and Laurenceb doesn't even comment on it before he grabs the link and retweets it on another channel
2013-03-14T17:22:31 < gxti> HT deez nuts
2013-03-14T17:23:02 < dongs> haha
2013-03-14T17:23:06 < dongs> where did he retweet it to zyp
2013-03-14T17:24:12 < zyp> #highaltitude
2013-03-14T17:24:26 < zyp> like every other funny that gets posted here
2013-03-14T17:24:32 < dongs> haha
2013-03-14T17:24:37 < dongs> why are  YOU there tho
2013-03-14T17:25:03 < zyp> there are some interesting conversations there now and then
2013-03-14T17:25:15 < zyp> so why not
2013-03-14T17:44:14 < cTn> BJfreeman: can i request your assistance ? :(
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2013-03-14T17:57:51 < zyp> dongs, finally got ipad lcd
2013-03-14T17:58:15 < dongs> o shit
2013-03-14T17:58:18 < dongs> the 1st one??
2013-03-14T17:58:33 < zyp> dunno
2013-03-14T17:58:35 < zyp> wtf
2013-03-14T17:58:36 < dongs> or the 2nd one
2013-03-14T17:58:36 < dongs> haha
2013-03-14T17:58:39 < zyp> it's bent
2013-03-14T17:58:43 < dongs> lol?
2013-03-14T17:59:24 < zyp> damaged in transport I guess
2013-03-14T17:59:39 < dongs> not usable?
2013-03-14T18:00:09 < zyp> looks like glass is fractured
2013-03-14T18:00:13 < dongs> shitty.
2013-03-14T18:00:18 < dongs> no free lcd for you
2013-03-14T18:00:22 < zyp> probably usable enough for testing
2013-03-14T18:01:08 < zyp> well, this one had a tracking number, so I guess it's second one
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2013-03-14T18:01:17 < dongs> ouch.
2013-03-14T18:01:19 < dongs> double-raped.
2013-03-14T18:01:51 < dongs> http://timecop.mine.nu/bardriver.hex if you wanna try firmware that at least powers on backlight
2013-03-14T18:02:54 < dongs> same url /usb_pwr.zip for sores. off to bed, good luck if it powers on.
2013-03-14T18:03:34 < Erlkoenig> guy in other channel bought a Color TFT Touchscreen with 800x600, integrated Controller with I²C communication & rendering, and, most importantly, GERMAN DATASHEET (argh). Guess the price
2013-03-14T18:03:54 < dongs> im sure it was more than $60 that zyp paid for a broken panel
2013-03-14T18:04:11 < Erlkoenig> much more...
2013-03-14T18:04:38 < zyp> dongs, is the default firmware of this board doing anything more than cycling the colors on the panel?
2013-03-14T18:04:46 < dongs> no it does nmothing at all
2013-03-14T18:05:01 < Erlkoenig> ... it cost 300€ ... totally insane
2013-03-14T18:05:07 < dongs> i only wrote the backlight working one after i had to prepare a demo unit
2013-03-14T18:05:09 < Erlkoenig> he could just have bought a tablet for less
2013-03-14T18:05:11 < dongs> like a week ago
2013-03-14T18:05:31 < zyp> ah, ok
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2013-03-14T18:06:18 < dongs> you cna flash that hex i linked and hten it will power up at 50%, push power button to get 100% brightness, push it again to power off and never turn on again
2013-03-14T18:06:22 < dongs> thats the "demo"
2013-03-14T18:06:23 < dongs> heh
2013-03-14T18:06:43 < dongs> (reconnect usb to go back to start
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2013-03-14T18:08:20 < zyp> hmm, I assume the flat cable goes into the socket with the pads up?
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2013-03-14T18:08:52 < zyp> how did you intend for this board to sit wrt. the cable?
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2013-03-14T18:09:35 < dongs> yeah.
2013-03-14T18:09:40 < dongs> it goes in top right of the display
2013-03-14T18:09:46 < dongs> dp/usb on the right side
2013-03-14T18:10:14 < zyp> how does that fit with the cable?
2013-03-14T18:10:29 < dongs> lemme t ake a pic or something
2013-03-14T18:11:13 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/N3fPCY2.jpg like this?
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2013-03-14T18:12:57 < zyp> so the flat cable goes into the connector with the connecting side down?
2013-03-14T18:13:02 < dongs> no
2013-03-14T18:13:04 < dongs> top
2013-03-14T18:13:10 < zyp> wat
2013-03-14T18:13:16 < dongs> just like in the pic
2013-03-14T18:13:16 < dongs> wtf?
2013-03-14T18:13:21 < dongs> isnt it obvious? it can only go in one way
2013-03-14T18:13:38 < dongs> or i dont fucking know i cant see the pads
2013-03-14T18:13:45 < dongs> isnt the pads on both sides of that connector?
2013-03-14T18:13:54 < zyp> no, it's single sided
2013-03-14T18:14:03 < dongs> ok yeah its bottom
2013-03-14T18:14:07 < dongs> just pulled mine out
2013-03-14T18:14:08 < zyp> ah, right
2013-03-14T18:14:13 < zyp> that makes more sense
2013-03-14T18:14:13 < dongs> there's a line on the thing
2013-03-14T18:14:16 < dongs> it has to fully disappear
2013-03-14T18:14:21 < dongs> into the connector.
2013-03-14T18:14:30 < zyp> yeah
2013-03-14T18:14:37 < zyp> and then it sits in the corner, yeah
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2013-03-14T18:20:28 < zyp> got the elf that would turn on the backlight?
2013-03-14T18:20:43 < dongs> um
2013-03-14T18:20:45 < dongs> whats wrong with hex?
2013-03-14T18:20:48 < dongs> cant flash with opensauce tools?
2013-03-14T18:21:16 < dongs> timecop.mine.nu/bardriver.zip
2013-03-14T18:21:18 < dongs> elf+hex
2013-03-14T18:22:08 < zyp> I'm used to just loading the elf directly into gdb
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2013-03-14T18:28:20 < zyp> oh, this is worse than it initially looked
2013-03-14T18:28:30 < donigs> haha
2013-03-14T18:28:32 < zyp> lcd is completely shattered
2013-03-14T18:28:35 < donigs> shitty.
2013-03-14T18:28:45 < donigs> how the fuck did they ship it?
2013-03-14T18:28:49 < donigs> in a envelope? lol
2013-03-14T18:28:53 < jpa-> pictures :)
2013-03-14T18:29:10 < zyp> a thin cardboard box
2013-03-14T18:29:17 < donigs> the shit I get from my chinapal came in plastic frame that the lcd ships in, wrapped in bubble shit and proper hard cardboard case
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2013-03-14T18:29:24 < zyp> just wrapped in some bubble wrap
2013-03-14T18:29:26 < donigs> did it have pink plastic?
2013-03-14T18:29:31 < zyp> no
2013-03-14T18:29:33 < jpa-> sell it on ebay as "ipad instagram caleidoscope"
2013-03-14T18:29:45 < donigs> shitty, wtf totally unprofessional.
2013-03-14T18:30:12 < Erlkoenig> https://stra.to/ap/EigdzHvb/s/9b1a041496f59d45d935198f69c2fd1e/P6070442.JPG?id=700678
2013-03-14T18:30:37 < dongs> pro lunixer
2013-03-14T18:31:03 < Erlkoenig> exactly :D
2013-03-14T18:32:17 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/GMuwy.jpg http://bin.jvnv.net/f/RYGJP.jpg
2013-03-14T18:32:38 < Erlkoenig> pretty
2013-03-14T18:33:50 < dongs> zyp: haha. awesome.
2013-03-14T18:33:54 < dongs> i dont think thats gonna wokr.
2013-03-14T18:34:01 < jpa-> is that totally bent?
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2013-03-14T18:35:19 < dongs> zyp: good news is it might still power up
2013-03-14T18:35:24 < dongs> since all the electronics are in top side
2013-03-14T18:35:37 < zyp> it is powered up in the pics
2013-03-14T18:35:42 < dongs> oh is it?
2013-03-14T18:35:45 < dongs> so its not doing shit?
2013-03-14T18:35:53 < dongs> or is that shit in top left
2013-03-14T18:35:54 < dongs> all you can see
2013-03-14T18:35:55 < dongs> lol
2013-03-14T18:36:02 < zyp> top left is all that works, yes
2013-03-14T18:36:17 < zyp> hooked it up to dp now, it works, but only top left :p
2013-03-14T18:36:26 < dongs> lame
2013-03-14T18:36:38 < jpa-> well it's maybe 100 pixels total! :)
2013-03-14T18:37:21 < dongs> well good thing it works
2013-03-14T18:37:28 < dongs> now you can get htem to send you ANOTHER one
2013-03-14T18:37:43 < dongs> or maybe you want me to send you one in jp?
2013-03-14T18:37:46 < dongs> ha ha.
2013-03-14T18:38:45 < zyp> oh, I actually get some 1D pic in upper right too
2013-03-14T18:39:20 < zyp> looks like all rows are getting averaged per col
2013-03-14T18:42:02 < zyp> woah, OS X is actually detecting it as an appled display and links to http://support.apple.com/manuals#displays in the monitor list
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2013-03-14T18:42:29 < zyp> maybe that means I can get the brightness stuff to work too
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2013-03-14T19:20:42 < Erlkoenig> http://9gag.com/gag/6796154
2013-03-14T19:20:46 < x-warrior> does anybody uses arm toolchain directly from console to stm32?
2013-03-14T19:20:57 < Erlkoenig> yup
2013-03-14T19:21:09 < x-warrior> what about upload
2013-03-14T19:21:09 < x-warrior> ?
2013-03-14T19:21:31 < Erlkoenig> gdb and texane st-link
2013-03-14T19:22:24 < Erlkoenig> openocd is said to work with st-link now, too
2013-03-14T19:24:15 < jpa-> yeah, i usually use texane st-link st-flash command
2013-03-14T19:24:38 < zyp> I just tore down the entire panel
2013-03-14T19:25:53 < zyp> there are two backlight flexpcbs, one for top and one for bottom
2013-03-14T19:26:28 < zyp> each has a seven-pin connector with a common anode and the cathodes for six chains
2013-03-14T19:26:28 < Erlkoenig> wouldn't you send it back to get a new one?
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2013-03-14T19:27:17 < x-warrior> well I'm having some problem with the startup of my code
2013-03-14T19:27:18 < zyp> why the fuck would they want a shattered lcd back?
2013-03-14T19:27:22 < x-warrior> :/
2013-03-14T19:27:46 < zyp> it's not like they can repair it
2013-03-14T19:27:58 < jpa-> x-warrior: do you have a debugger?
2013-03-14T19:27:59 < Erlkoenig> zyp: depends on "them". but you should be able to get a new one for free regardless...
2013-03-14T19:28:08 < zyp> yes
2013-03-14T19:28:12 < Erlkoenig> depends on local law, though ^^
2013-03-14T19:28:24 < zyp> it's a random chinese ebay seller
2013-03-14T19:28:29 < Erlkoenig> some dealers might want do have the original one back as proof or something
2013-03-14T19:28:35 < Erlkoenig> okay china is different...
2013-03-14T19:28:44 < jpa-> on ebay you usually do get replacements
2013-03-14T19:28:48 < x-warrior> is this st-link free?
2013-03-14T19:28:54 < Erlkoenig> yes, opensource
2013-03-14T19:28:55 < x-warrior> oh I just saw
2013-03-14T19:28:58 < jpa-> x-warrior: which operating system anyway?
2013-03-14T19:30:13 < x-warrior> well my proc is stm32f103 with http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml
2013-03-14T19:30:33 < x-warrior> and I'm on windows
2013-03-14T19:30:47 < jpa-> do you have the st-link hardware?
2013-03-14T19:31:43 < x-warrior> no I don't :(
2013-03-14T19:31:51 < jpa-> ok, so no debugger
2013-03-14T19:32:23 < jpa-> your best bet is to make some tiny code at first, i.e. just turn on a led and do nothing else, not even configure the clocks except for the GPIO peripheral.. and work your way up there
2013-03-14T19:33:20 < ds2> no discovery boards?
2013-03-14T19:33:27 < x-warrior> no discovery board
2013-03-14T19:33:50 < ds2> did you bring out the full JTAG pins?
2013-03-14T19:35:03 < jpa-> it's the board in the link
2013-03-14T19:35:18 < ds2> link? /me looks back again
2013-03-14T19:35:44 < jpa-> looks like it brings out the whole portA, so yes, it does have all the jtag pins
2013-03-14T19:36:04 < ds2> ah yes
2013-03-14T19:36:14 < ds2> hte futurelec one?
2013-03-14T19:37:02 < ds2> if jtag is available, you could rig up a parallel port thingie and use openocd
2013-03-14T19:37:51 < jpa-> getting that stuff built and running on windows sounds harder than just going without debugger :)
2013-03-14T19:38:01 < ds2> ewwwwwwwwwwwww windows
2013-03-14T19:38:26 < jpa-> yeah yeah, you can go fight it out with dongs
2013-03-14T19:38:39 < jpa-> let everyone else use the OS they *themselves* decide
2013-03-14T19:38:49 < x-warrior> well, I'm a linux user
2013-03-14T19:38:53 < ds2> at the price they are asking, a discovery board would be a better deal
2013-03-14T19:38:54 < x-warrior> I could switch to linux easily
2013-03-14T19:39:04 < ds2> get a reusable STlink and have the chip
2013-03-14T19:39:05 < x-warrior> I just thought that there were some free ide or something for windows
2013-03-14T19:39:10 < jpa-> yeah i would recommend a discovery board also
2013-03-14T19:39:17 < x-warrior> well I get a spare board from a friend
2013-03-14T19:39:19 < x-warrior> :D
2013-03-14T19:39:30 < x-warrior> I got*
2013-03-14T19:41:28 < Erlkoenig> you can use eclipse
2013-03-14T19:44:23 < zyp> you can use vim
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2013-03-14T19:49:58 < qyx_> omg meteo warning, 40m/s wind
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2013-03-14T20:25:15 < mtbg> hi
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2013-03-14T20:26:08 < mtbg> I'm trying to setup USB OTG FS in device mode, I configured the OTG registers according to the documentation
2013-03-14T20:26:32 < mtbg> and I can receive USB setup packets properly
2013-03-14T20:26:53 < Erlkoenig> you could use ST's USB Library, which makes that stuff much easier
2013-03-14T20:26:58 < mtbg> but, the problem is, that when I configure IN transfer for EP0
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2013-03-14T20:28:05 < mtbg> the device sends a packet which is one 32-bit word longer that what I had set in DIEPTSIZ0
2013-03-14T20:28:47 < mtbg> and the additional word is always at the begin of the packet and has a value of the first word that I pushed to fifo
2013-03-14T20:29:12 < zyp> mtbg, are you writing the usb handling code from scratch?
2013-03-14T20:29:17 < mtbg> yep
2013-03-14T20:30:06 < zyp> do you have some code I can see?
2013-03-14T20:31:28 < mtbg> pretty messy, as I'm just testing the way I can communicate
2013-03-14T20:31:32 < mtbg> but I will paste it
2013-03-14T20:31:47 < zyp> it's ok, I'm used to messy code :)
2013-03-14T20:32:00 < mtbg> http://ideone.com/DksSJ5
2013-03-14T20:33:48 < zyp> I see you have some dolog() stuff, can you paste the outputted log as well?
2013-03-14T20:33:55 < Erlkoenig> the two CAN modules of the F4 share the same 28 filter banks... if i configure it so that the first 20 banks(0-19) are for CAN1, and the 8 last (20-27) for CAN2, and the first filter in bank No 20 matches, the message will end up in CAN2's FIFO, but what will the filter index be? 0?
2013-03-14T20:34:15 < jpa-> mtbg: how do you determine that there is extra 32 bits?
2013-03-14T20:34:40 < mtbg> jpa-: snooping with wireshark
2013-03-14T20:35:04 < mtbg> zyp: http://ideone.com/D0P9jk
2013-03-14T20:35:19 -!- jon1012 [~jon@foresight/developer/jon1012] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2013-03-14T20:35:23 < jpa-> i assume you have compared it with similar transaction from another device, so that you are not just confused by the wireshark's display format?
2013-03-14T20:35:38 < mtbg> yes
2013-03-14T20:35:43 < jpa-> ok :)
2013-03-14T20:36:19 < mtbg> and additionally, the problem occurs only with transfers of length greather than 4 bytes
2013-03-14T20:36:33 < mtbg> when I setup a 4-byte transfer, I receive just 4 bytes
2013-03-14T20:36:59 < mtbg> but, with 6 byte transfer, I get 10 bytes and with 8 byte transfer, the wireshark shows 12 bytes
2013-03-14T20:37:16 < mtbg> and always the first 32 bit word pushed to the fifo is duplicated
2013-03-14T20:38:37 < BJfreeman> lucky lost wieght so not as around as I use to be
2013-03-14T20:38:52 < BJfreeman> oops
2013-03-14T20:39:02 < gxti> nice
2013-03-14T20:44:22 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-14T20:44:36 < mtbg> I'm aware that there is a OTG USB stack from ST, but I'd really like to write it myself, even if just to learn about the internals of that peripheral
2013-03-14T20:44:45 < zyp> mtbg, I can't see anything obviously wrong
2013-03-14T20:45:03 < jpa-> it could be that for some reason the endpoint would be still enabled and modifying DIEPTSIZ0 when you write it
2013-03-14T20:45:03 < zyp> can I get a complete package so I can compile, build and test it here?
2013-03-14T20:46:29 < mtbg> sure
2013-03-14T20:46:55 < mtbg> but the configuration (pll and i/o) is for stm32f4 discovery
2013-03-14T20:47:10 < zyp> sure, no problem
2013-03-14T20:47:42 < zyp> I assume it only requires the usb pins anyway?
2013-03-14T20:48:10 < mtbg> and PLL
2013-03-14T20:48:23 < mtbg> PLL is configured for external 8MHz crystal
2013-03-14T20:48:23 < zyp> well, that's internal
2013-03-14T20:48:26 < zyp> sure
2013-03-14T20:50:50 < mtbg> zyp: http://mtbg.eu/usb-dcmi.tar.bz2
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2013-03-14T20:53:04 < jpa-> mtbg: hmm.. isn't  OTG_FS.DIEPCTL0 &= ~1<<31;   the same as   OTG_FS.DIEPCTL0 &= 0;   
2013-03-14T20:53:12 < jpa-> perhaps not the bug you are looking for, but bug anyway
2013-03-14T20:53:42 < zyp> no
2013-03-14T20:53:50 < zyp> 1<<31 is not 1<<32
2013-03-14T20:53:57 < mtbg> hmm
2013-03-14T20:54:00 < mtbg> well
2013-03-14T20:54:11 < jpa-> ~1<<31 is (~1)<<31 is 0 according to gdb
2013-03-14T20:54:24 < mtbg> yep, right
2013-03-14T20:54:25 < mtbg> thanks
2013-03-14T20:54:33 < jpa-> but &= ~1<<31 isn't the way to disable an endpoint anyway
2013-03-14T20:55:20 < jpa-> because the OTGFS peripheral is strange in the way that you need to set the EPDIS bit instead of clearing the EPENA.. but i don't think disabling or enabling the endpoint necessarily has anything to do with this bug
2013-03-14T20:55:33 < zyp> woah, your usb code is slow
2013-03-14T20:55:38 < zyp> I assume it's the printing :p
2013-03-14T20:55:44 < jpa-> accidentally clearing the other bits in the DIEPCTL0 might do something, though
2013-03-14T20:55:54 < mtbg> it is printing in RAM
2013-03-14T20:56:21 < jpa-> hmm.. in fact it probably has no effect
2013-03-14T20:56:24 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/o4wpz.png
2013-03-14T20:56:48 < zyp> it's a bit interesting that the ninth byte is 0x79
2013-03-14T20:57:24 < mtbg> I'm sending 0x12345678 + i, where i is the word number
2013-03-14T20:57:39 < zyp> but both the first and fifth is 0x78
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2013-03-14T20:57:47 < mtbg> yep
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2013-03-14T20:57:55 < mtbg> it is the duplicated first 32-bit word
2013-03-14T20:58:03 < mtbg> that I meant
2013-03-14T20:58:24 < mtbg> btw what software is the screen shot from?
2013-03-14T20:58:45 < zyp> oh, by the way, here is my code if you want a working example: http://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usb/dwc_otg.h
2013-03-14T20:58:49 < zyp> total phase data center
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2013-03-14T21:12:45 < mtbg> zyp: nice code, but well, you are changing 'Reserved' bits of some registers
2013-03-14T21:13:29 < zyp> sure
2013-03-14T21:13:44 < jpa-> everyone changes the reserved bits sometimes :)
2013-03-14T21:14:45 < jpa-> how does the TXFIFO go about discarding extra bytes? is the fifo cleared when DIEPTSIZ0 is written?
2013-03-14T21:14:54 < zyp> reserved in most cases means «writes to this bit is ignored», so it's fine
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2013-03-14T21:29:57 < Tectu> the DAC of the STM32F4 has an output buffer, right?
2013-03-14T21:34:02 < jpa-> mtbg: could you print the DIEPCTL0 value before you set DIEPTSIZ0?
2013-03-14T21:34:29 < jpa-> Tectu: yes, you can configure whether it is on or off
2013-03-14T21:34:56 < Tectu> jpa-, how exactly does that buffer look like?
2013-03-14T21:35:10 < jpa-> Tectu: unity gain operational amplifier
2013-03-14T21:35:19 < Tectu> so a simple gain block?
2013-03-14T21:35:43 < Tectu> (amplifier with a fixed gain)
2013-03-14T21:35:54 < jpa-> yes
2013-03-14T21:35:54 < zyp> jpa-, DIEPCTL0: 0x00028000
2013-03-14T21:35:58 < zyp> looks correct to me
2013-03-14T21:36:30 < Tectu> thanks jpa- !
2013-03-14T21:36:52 < jpa-> Tectu: datasheet has the electrical specs for it
2013-03-14T21:37:19 < Tectu> thanks!
2013-03-14T21:37:57 < zyp> I'm a bit puzzled by this, because I can't see what's causing this, and it doesn't seem to be any of the mistakes I did when I wrote mine
2013-03-14T21:38:33 < jpa-> zyp: hmm.. mpsiz = 0?
2013-03-14T21:38:54 < zyp> I saw and fixed it, doesn't seem to affect anything
2013-03-14T21:39:59 < jpa-> at which point did you fix it?
2013-03-14T21:40:24 < zyp> I mean, I changed some endpoint initialization in reset handler
2013-03-14T21:40:35 < zyp> in either case, for ep0 MPSIZ=0 means 64 byte
2013-03-14T21:40:40 < jpa-> aha
2013-03-14T21:40:49 < jpa-> ah indeed
2013-03-14T21:40:57 < jpa-> was looking at DIEPCTLx
2013-03-14T21:42:56 < zyp> whoops, crashed my host stack
2013-03-14T21:43:08 < zyp> that's been a while
2013-03-14T21:43:09 < zyp> :p
2013-03-14T21:43:54 < jpa-> huh, still possible to crash PC host stacks?
2013-03-14T21:44:20 < jpa-> i would have thought that all the bugs on that side would have been long since fixed :)
2013-03-14T21:44:32 < BJfreeman> LOL
2013-03-14T21:44:44 < BJfreeman> wishfull thinking
2013-03-14T21:44:50 < zyp> nah, it just threw out the entire hub
2013-03-14T21:44:58 < zyp> replugging the hub made it work again
2013-03-14T21:44:59 < zyp> :)
2013-03-14T21:45:21 < jpa-> ah :)
2013-03-14T21:45:26 < mtbg> :>
2013-03-14T21:46:13 < jpa-> what does the TXFNUM in DIEPCTL0 mean?
2013-03-14T21:46:24 < zyp> TXFIFO number
2013-03-14T21:46:33 < zyp> should be 0 in this case
2013-03-14T21:46:34 < cTn> BJfreeman: got a moment?
2013-03-14T21:46:37 < jpa-> hmm nuttx does something very funny with it
2013-03-14T21:46:50 < zyp> I just set it to same as ep number in my code
2013-03-14T21:47:01 < zyp> so ep0 use fifo0, ep1 use fifo1 and so on
2013-03-14T21:48:22 < jpa-> nuttx apparently assigns one fifo per endpoint type, i.e. 0 for control, 1 for isochronous, 2 for bulk, 3 for interrupt
2013-03-14T21:48:33 < jpa-> but yeah, just different ways to do it
2013-03-14T21:49:05 < zyp> that sounds weird
2013-03-14T21:50:01 < zyp> maybe it's written to cope with devices that are configured with shared txfifos
2013-03-14T21:50:18 < zyp> because then you have one for periodic and one for nonperiodic traffic
2013-03-14T21:50:35 < jpa-> the design is probably based on one of such devices
2013-03-14T21:50:58 < jpa-> even though all of that code is in the otgfsdev specific stuff
2013-03-14T21:51:57 < jpa-> what is the point of the DOEPCTL0 write on line 210? could it mess something up? (probably not)
2013-03-14T21:52:23 < zyp> it should be irrelevant
2013-03-14T21:52:33 < zyp> (but yeah, it's out of place)
2013-03-14T21:52:50 < jpa-> hmm.. so txfifo and rxfifo should have no interaction, they just use the same register address for access?
2013-03-14T21:53:02 < zyp> correct
2013-03-14T21:53:06 < jpa-> ok
2013-03-14T21:53:16 < zyp> reads pop from rxfifo, writes push to txfifo
2013-03-14T21:57:46 < x-warrior> does the stm32 code starts in what memory address?
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2013-03-14T21:58:07 < jpa-> x-warrior: it boots at 0x000000000, but the flash is really at 0x08000000
2013-03-14T21:58:17 < jpa-> it's mapped based on boot pins
2013-03-14T21:58:35 < mtbg> zyp: change 5<<10 in GUSBCFG to 0xf<<10 and delete | 7
2013-03-14T21:58:40 < mtbg> it fixes it for me
2013-03-14T21:58:43 < mtbg> odd, though
2013-03-14T21:58:44 < karlp> zyp: in your python+gdb adventures, have you ever managed to get python to get the address of a symbol?
2013-03-14T21:59:01 < karlp> I can do p &mystruct.member ==> 0x20001234
2013-03-14T21:59:11 < karlp> and mycmd 0x20001234,
2013-03-14T21:59:18 < karlp> but I can't do mycmd &mystruct.member
2013-03-14T21:59:39 < karlp> it passes it as a string, and can't work out the gdb api to get gdb to do the magic decoding into an address for me.
2013-03-14T21:59:59 < zyp> «rblog usb_rblog» works fine for me
2013-03-14T22:00:15 < karlp> let me check your code again
2013-03-14T22:00:22 < zyp> http://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/gdb_plugins/rblog.py <- see the parse_and_eval()
2013-03-14T22:00:22 < karlp> and mine too,
2013-03-14T22:00:39 < karlp> hrmm, I thought I'd tried parse andeval,
2013-03-14T22:00:46 < karlp> I have that in some other code of mine doing graphing
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2013-03-14T22:03:02 < x-warrior> jpa-: so I need to find futurlec bootloader code, so I can guarantee that it jumps to 0x0800000
2013-03-14T22:03:03 < x-warrior> ?
2013-03-14T22:03:42 < jpa-> x-warrior: hmm.. why do you have such a bootloader?
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2013-03-14T22:04:00 < jpa-> mtbg: what should your AHB (sysclk) be?
2013-03-14T22:04:11 < mtbg> 48MHz
2013-03-14T22:04:24 < x-warrior> jpa-:  I have this device: √http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml
2013-03-14T22:04:27 < mtbg> will re-check the pll configuration
2013-03-14T22:04:38 < x-warrior> so I'm assuming it has other bootloader
2013-03-14T22:04:44 < jpa-> i checked it also and arrived at 48 MHz, just thought to doublecheck
2013-03-14T22:04:47 < x-warrior> but maybe I'm wrong still new to this
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2013-03-14T22:06:05 < mtbg> but, the problem is seemingly solved, it was the TRDT misconfigured, thanks zyp and jpa-
2013-03-14T22:06:16 < zyp> really?
2013-03-14T22:06:18 < jpa-> mtbg: hmm.. it still seems strange
2013-03-14T22:06:23 < jpa-> it seems it was correctly configured
2013-03-14T22:07:08 < jpa-> .... furthermore...... nuttx seems to hardcode that as 5, and it has worked fine even though my AHB is 168MHz.. i better fix that :D
2013-03-14T22:07:25 < mtbg> well
2013-03-14T22:07:59 < mtbg> I set it to 5<<10 because the documentation says it is the proper setting for 48MHz
2013-03-14T22:08:12 < jpa-> yeah
2013-03-14T22:09:19 < jpa-> you could bisect to see at what point problems occur
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2013-03-14T22:09:36 < mtbg> zyp: you have 0xf in TRDT in your code, what AHB clock do you have then?
2013-03-14T22:09:39 < jpa-> (and also to verify that it wasn't the TOCAL (wtf is that?) that was causing the problem)
2013-03-14T22:09:43 < zyp> oh
2013-03-14T22:09:52 < zyp> setting TRDT to 15 indeed fixes the problem
2013-03-14T22:10:48 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-14T22:11:02 < zyp> well, I made a few other changes too
2013-03-14T22:11:47 < zyp> but it seems to be TRDT
2013-03-14T22:11:56 < karlp> hrm, gdb.Value can't be treated as an int.
2013-03-14T22:12:13 < karlp> I can do print("%d" % int(str(gdb.parse_and_eval("blah"))))
2013-03-14T22:12:20 < karlp> but not with the direct result
2013-03-14T22:13:57 < mtbg> hmm
2013-03-14T22:16:25 < jpa-> chibios also hardcodes a value of 5 for TRDT
2013-03-14T22:17:09 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-14T22:17:23 < zyp> makes sense when reading the TRDT description
2013-03-14T22:17:24 < mtbg> my pll is configured that the signal from HSE of 8MHz is divided by 4 and 2MHz is feed on the input, multiplier is set to 192 so the vco freq is 384MHz and main pll divisor is 8 so the frequency on the pll output is 48MHz, divisor for usb otg/sdio/rng is also 8 so the USB OTG clock is 48MHz (and it wouldn't work if it was different)
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2013-03-14T22:18:02 < zyp> mtbg, sure, but what's the sysclock?
2013-03-14T22:18:27 < zyp> I'm using 15 because the sysclock (and thus AHB clock) is 168, and 168 / 48 * 4 + 1 = 15
2013-03-14T22:18:59 < jpa-> zyp: i don't think it makes sense because most people would have AHB=168
2013-03-14T22:19:17 < zyp> I might not understand it correctly
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2013-03-14T22:20:19 < zyp> I certainly don't
2013-03-14T22:20:23 < zyp> «If the AHB is running at a higher frequency than the PHY, the application can use a smaller value for TRDT (in OTG_FS_GUSBCFG).»
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2013-03-14T22:21:30 < mtbg> hmm
2013-03-14T22:21:36 < zyp> so it should really be 48 / 168 * 4 + 1
2013-03-14T22:21:41 < zyp> which would round up to 3
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2013-03-14T22:22:37 < jpa-> the examples below the TRDT description make no sense
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2013-03-14T22:23:47 < mtbg> my sysclk is then 48MHz (that is the pll output after the /8 divisor) and AHB prescaler is 0b1000 so /2 according to the manual
2013-03-14T22:23:56 < mtbg> AHB clk is then 24MHz
2013-03-14T22:24:03 < mtbg> quite slow
2013-03-14T22:24:09 < zyp> really?
2013-03-14T22:24:12 < zyp> then it makes sense
2013-03-14T22:24:24 < jpa-> ah
2013-03-14T22:24:40 < zyp> 48 / 24 * 4 + 1 = 9
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2013-03-14T22:25:11 < mtbg> will turn off the AHB prescaler
2013-03-14T22:25:23 < mtbg> I don't need any extreme power saving
2013-03-14T22:26:08 < jpa-> but way to go ST on writing incomprehensible specs :)
2013-03-14T22:26:42 < zyp> no, this is from synopsys
2013-03-14T22:26:57 < zyp> it's mostly pulled from the dwc documentation itself
2013-03-14T22:26:57 < jpa-> well it is in stm32f4 reference manual anyway
2013-03-14T22:27:12 < jpa-> i wonder who wrote the incorrect examples?
2013-03-14T22:27:23 < jpa-> " if AHB clock = 72 MHz (PHY Clock is 48), the TRDT is set to 9"
2013-03-14T22:28:05 -!- daku is now known as DaKu
2013-03-14T22:29:24 < mtbg> freezes the core with the prescaler off
2013-03-14T22:30:36 < zyp> jpa-, that's probably ST
2013-03-14T22:31:07 < zyp> synopsys seems to be using 30 and 60 MHz in their examples
2013-03-14T22:31:58 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/pL49i.png <- not sure this is much more understandable though
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2013-03-14T22:33:44 < jpa-> mtbg: you cannot turn AHB prescaler off
2013-03-14T22:33:54 < jpa-> mtbg: you need to adjust PLL accordingly
2013-03-14T22:34:29 < jpa-> hmm.. or can you?
2013-03-14T22:34:35 < jpa-> ah you cna
2013-03-14T22:34:37 < jpa-> *can
2013-03-14T22:34:51 < jpa-> sorry, forget, i fail at reading comprehension
2013-03-14T22:35:07 < zyp> of course you can, HCLK is 168 MHz max
2013-03-14T22:40:49 < Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/14/samsung_s4/
2013-03-14T22:40:50 < Laurenceb_> wtf
2013-03-14T22:40:58 < Laurenceb_> 8 core 1.8GHz
2013-03-14T22:41:03 < Laurenceb_> thats just stupid
2013-03-14T22:41:13 < Laurenceb_> unless you are trying to run java....
2013-03-14T22:41:24 <+Steffanx> It's fancy ..
2013-03-14T22:41:28 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-14T22:41:29 <+Steffanx> fancy phones neeeeed that
2013-03-14T22:41:52 < zyp> TRDT of both 3, 2 and 1 work with my code, running at HCLK = 168 MHz
2013-03-14T22:42:30 < mtbg> hmm
2013-03-14T22:43:25 < mtbg> whether I set the main divisor to /4 instead of /8 or turn of the ahb prescaler, the device freezes
2013-03-14T22:43:28 < mtbg> something is wrong
2013-03-14T22:43:42 < jpa-> mtbg: maybe flash wait time is not set correctly?
2013-03-14T22:44:25 < mtbg> it looks like the whole ahb freezes
2013-03-14T22:44:40 < mtbg> (gdb) printf "0x%08x\n", *(0x40023808)
2013-03-14T22:44:41 < mtbg> 0x0000b48a
2013-03-14T22:44:51 < mtbg> that is fine
2013-03-14T22:44:52 < jpa-> if flash reads corrupted stuff, the core would go into lockup pretty fast
2013-03-14T22:45:00 < mtbg> (gdb) printf "0x%08x\n", *(0x40023808)
2013-03-14T22:45:01 < mtbg> 0x40023808
2013-03-14T22:45:06 < mtbg> and that is not
2013-03-14T22:45:25 < zyp> you know, you could just write x/wx 0x40023808
2013-03-14T22:45:47 < jpa-> you need to set FLASH_ACR maybe
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2013-03-14T22:48:58 < mtbg> jpa-: yep, it was the issue, thanks!
2013-03-14T22:50:22 < mtbg> and now the usb works with 5 in TRDT
2013-03-14T22:50:23 < mtbg> :>
2013-03-14T22:50:31 < mtbg> so well
2013-03-14T22:50:37 < mtbg> time to rewrite the code
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2013-03-14T22:54:17 < zyp> great
2013-03-14T22:54:31 < mtbg> the wireshark output looks so sweet now
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2013-03-14T22:54:41 < zyp> and I finally learned what TRDT does and the implications of getting it wrong
2013-03-14T22:55:08 < zyp> pft, you don't know sweet :)
2013-03-14T22:55:47 < mtbg> http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/7545917100_1363294509.png
2013-03-14T22:55:48 < zyp> wireshark looks horrible compared to decent usb analysis software :p
2013-03-14T22:56:18 < cTn> anyone got any experience with this stm32 stamp board ? http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml
2013-03-14T22:57:07 < zyp> mtbg, also, keep in mind that the host is only asking for the first 8 bytes there, not the full 18
2013-03-14T22:58:19 < mtbg> devices that I sniffed with wireshark are sending the whole descriptor even prior to SetAddress
2013-03-14T22:59:28 < zyp> no, they don't.
2013-03-14T23:00:27 < zyp> the host is only asking for 8 bytes and sending anything more is a protocol violation
2013-03-14T23:00:37 <+Steffanx> I have to agree with zyp this time, the fancy screenshots he posts of the usb analyzer software he uses is much nicer
2013-03-14T23:00:37 < zyp> and there is a good reason for doing it like that
2013-03-14T23:00:40 <+Steffanx> *are
2013-03-14T23:01:29 <+Steffanx> ( reminds me of looking at the openvizsla ks page )
2013-03-14T23:02:23 < mtbg> zyp: http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/6517374300_1363294902.png
2013-03-14T23:02:26 < zyp> the host does not know the MPS of the device's EP0 before reading the first part of the device descriptor
2013-03-14T23:02:30 < mtbg> zyp: ^ that is my usb flash drive
2013-03-14T23:02:44 < Tectu> BrainDamage, are you going to the better embedded?
2013-03-14T23:03:10 < zyp> mtbg, that doesn't count
2013-03-14T23:03:27 < mtbg> so my usb flash drive violates usb spec?
2013-03-14T23:03:28 < zyp> a high speed device is only allowed to have a MPS of 64 on EP0
2013-03-14T23:03:40 < zyp> you are making a full speed device.
2013-03-14T23:03:54 < BrainDamage> Tectu: what?
2013-03-14T23:03:59 < mtbg> ah right
2013-03-14T23:04:04 < zyp> full speed devices are allowed to have a MPS of either 8, 16, 32 or 64 bytes IIRC
2013-03-14T23:04:22 < Tectu> BrainDamage, http://www.betterembedded.it/
2013-03-14T23:04:34 < zyp> so the 18 bytes can be sent either as three packets of 8, 8 and 2 bytes, two packets of 16 and 2 bytes or one packet of 18 bytes
2013-03-14T23:04:44 < zyp> and without knowing which to expect, the host can't request it
2013-03-14T23:04:59 < zyp> so it only grabs the first 8 bytes which is always a single packet
2013-03-14T23:05:14 < zyp> and the actual MPS is then contained in those 8 bytes
2013-03-14T23:05:32 < BrainDamage> don't know, I'd have to check
2013-03-14T23:05:53 < mtbg> zyp: http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/6112305100_1363295071.png st-link embedded in stm32f4 discovery which certainly isn't high speed
2013-03-14T23:06:24 < zyp> hang on, let me grab my discovery board and prove you wrong
2013-03-14T23:06:31 < mtbg> ok
2013-03-14T23:07:54 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/rPgBs.png
2013-03-14T23:08:13 < zyp> note the 8B for the first request, and then 18B next time
2013-03-14T23:08:31 < mtbg> hmm
2013-03-14T23:08:41 < mtbg> is it stm32f4 discovery?
2013-03-14T23:08:45 < zyp> sure
2013-03-14T23:08:58 < mtbg> so how do I get such results?
2013-03-14T23:09:05 < mtbg> that screen shot is real
2013-03-14T23:09:10 < zyp> wireshark/usbmon is lying to you
2013-03-14T23:09:50 < mtbg> ok
2013-03-14T23:10:30 < mtbg> btw
2013-03-14T23:11:21 < mtbg> did you plugged the device to an usb 2.0 port?
2013-03-14T23:11:39 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/l7h48.png <- here's what happens when plugging in a random usb stick, which is high speed
2013-03-14T23:12:14 < zyp> of course who has usb ports that aren't HS capable nowadays?
2013-03-14T23:12:56 < mtbg> odd then, wireshark can display incomplete packets (though it marks them as malformed)
2013-03-14T23:13:05 < zyp> the problem is that wireshark/usbmon is not seeing everything that happens during enumeration
2013-03-14T23:13:06 < mtbg> so it shouldn't lie to me
2013-03-14T23:14:34 < zyp> as I said, you don't know sweet ;)
2013-03-14T23:16:27 < zyp> of course, your host may work differently from mine and cause this behavior
2013-03-14T23:16:30 < mtbg> at least it is free :>
2013-03-14T23:17:13 <+Steffanx> "<dongs> open sores"
2013-03-14T23:17:15 < zyp> given the option, I prefer non-shitty over free
2013-03-14T23:18:24 < mtbg> note that wireshark was designed as a network protocol analyzer, USB snooping is quite a new feature
2013-03-14T23:18:50 < zyp> I wonder what will happen if the openvizsla project ever gets their boards out, hopefully somebody will step up and make something better than wireshark
2013-03-14T23:20:37 < mtbg> what a funny QFN device they have on the boards
2013-03-14T23:20:47 < mtbg> three rows of pads on each side
2013-03-14T23:21:10 < zyp> I've heard it's fun to solder
2013-03-14T23:23:09 < mtbg> I have bluetooth transceivers in qfn with two rows
2013-03-14T23:23:20 < mtbg> will see if it is that hard
2013-03-14T23:23:57 < zyp> multi-row qfn seems harder than bga
2013-03-14T23:24:52 < zyp> bga has protruding balls, qfn just have flat pads
2013-03-14T23:26:06 < mtbg> I will try to apply solder on the board and then put the device on it and heat with a hot air gun
2013-03-14T23:26:24 < mtbg> just solder, not solder paste
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2013-03-14T23:30:02 < zyp> ha, good luck with that
2013-03-14T23:31:13 < mtbg> regular qfns solder just fine this way
2013-03-14T23:33:15 < mervaka> i'll buy a round of beer if you manage that.
2013-03-14T23:33:42 < mervaka> i had enough trouble with a couple of single row QFNs
2013-03-14T23:33:54 < mervaka> fiddly as hell
2013-03-14T23:34:00 < zyp> I've reworked normal QFN like that it was a pain
2013-03-14T23:34:34 < mervaka> yeah, the oven was fine, except i accidentally dropped them both down 90 degrees off
2013-03-14T23:34:59 < mervaka> luckily i didn't paste the thermal pad down
2013-03-14T23:35:14 < mervaka> (i dont have flush vias, so no point)
2013-03-14T23:35:48 < zyp> for thermal pads normal vias are fine
2013-03-14T23:36:05 < zyp> the pad is too large for a little via to matter
2013-03-14T23:37:36 < mervaka> i mean i've been given conical pins to use instead of vias..
2013-03-14T23:38:04 < mervaka> manually soldered like thru hole pins, then cut off
2013-03-14T23:38:14 < mervaka> looks horrible
2013-03-14T23:38:31 < zyp> oh
2013-03-14T23:38:36 < zyp> are you doing DIY boards?
2013-03-14T23:38:42 < mervaka> yep :(
2013-03-14T23:38:46 < zyp> why?
2013-03-14T23:38:56 < mervaka> uni offers them far, far cheaper
2013-03-14T23:39:09 < mervaka> about £2-5 a board, depending on size
2013-03-14T23:39:22 < mervaka> and that's fibreglass, double sided, and tinned
2013-03-14T23:39:37 < mervaka> can't complain at those prices.
2013-03-14T23:39:57 < zyp> seeed is $10 for ten, with vias, silk and masks
2013-03-14T23:40:04 < zyp> so I don't know :p
2013-03-14T23:40:09 < mervaka> hmmmm
2013-03-14T23:40:28 < mervaka> link? :p
2013-03-14T23:40:52 < zyp> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-2-layers-p-835.html?cPath=185
2013-03-14T23:42:00 < mtbg> mervaka: we have managed to make DIY through hole metallization, it requires some chemicals, though
2013-03-14T23:43:05 < mervaka> not to worry, it's done now
2013-03-14T23:43:18 < mervaka> at least, this prototype
2013-03-14T23:43:48 < mervaka> next prototype i'm looking to use PoE
2013-03-14T23:43:56 < mervaka> or at least look into that.
2013-03-14T23:45:27 < mervaka> i'm also looking to move uC from the stm32f4 to the lpc4300 :p
2013-03-14T23:45:39 < mtbg> these are great
2013-03-14T23:45:47 < mtbg> lpc18xx too
2013-03-14T23:45:59 < mervaka> i need the dual core stuff
2013-03-14T23:46:04 < mervaka> it's a great idea
2013-03-14T23:46:24 < mervaka> and i need the sgpio
2013-03-14T23:46:40 < mtbg> why dual core?
2013-03-14T23:46:54 < zyp> I did a board for that
2013-03-14T23:46:57 < mervaka> control and DSP can be separated that way
2013-03-14T23:47:09 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/Mv7rw.JPG
2013-03-14T23:47:20 < zyp> let me see you do that DIY :)
2013-03-14T23:47:25 < mtbg> sdram?
2013-03-14T23:47:25 < mervaka> nice :)
2013-03-14T23:47:29 < zyp> yep
2013-03-14T23:47:37 < mervaka> they do make leaded versions though :)
2013-03-14T23:47:49 < mtbg> how many layers?
2013-03-14T23:47:57 < zyp> well, I mostly did this board because I wanted to see how hard it was to solder bga
2013-03-14T23:48:00 < zyp> 4
2013-03-14T23:48:22 < zyp> so far it seemed easier than QFN :p
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2013-03-14T23:48:42 < mervaka> i think they do a 144QFP
2013-03-14T23:49:01 < mtbg> the good thing is these lpcs have built-in high speed phy
2013-03-14T23:49:03 < mtbg> for usb
2013-03-14T23:49:25 < zyp> the bad thing is that it's full of sillyness
2013-03-14T23:49:26 < mervaka> yer
2013-03-14T23:49:52 < mervaka> i also need to find myself an 8ch audio ADC. i think cirrus do one..
2013-03-14T23:49:59 < mervaka> 24bit 8ch
2013-03-14T23:50:48 < zyp> I think the stm32f4x9 seems nicer than lpc43xx
2013-03-14T23:51:06 < mervaka> question regarding layers: how complex can internal layers be?
2013-03-14T23:51:19 < mervaka> ie, are they full planes, zones, or traces?
2013-03-14T23:51:22 < zyp> as complex as you want them to be
2013-03-14T23:51:25 < mtbg> zyp: how do you program it? using a bootloader? I can't see any debug interface on your board
2013-03-14T23:51:25 < mervaka> cool
2013-03-14T23:51:39 < zyp> mtbg, are you blind? what do you think the ribbon cable is for?
2013-03-14T23:51:47 < mtbg> ah
2013-03-14T23:52:08 < zyp> mervaka, on this board inner layers are just planes
2013-03-14T23:52:13 < mervaka> yeah
2013-03-14T23:52:26 < mervaka> was thinking, i need separate analogue and digital supplies
2013-03-14T23:52:32 < mervaka> so that would work well
2013-03-14T23:52:39  * Laurenceb_ has been doing work for uni again...
2013-03-14T23:52:41 < zyp> but I've done an RF board where I routed signals on inner layers to have them encapsulated between gnd planes
2013-03-14T23:52:43 < mervaka> 2 layers was a complete bitch
2013-03-14T23:52:54 < Laurenceb_> left some n00b students with ADXL345 to solder by hand
2013-03-14T23:52:57 < Laurenceb_> im so evil
2013-03-14T23:53:16 < mervaka> Laurenceb_: be nice :)
2013-03-14T23:53:34 < Laurenceb_> one of them managed to set the desk on fire :D
2013-03-14T23:53:34 < mervaka> i'm one of those "noob" students, although hopefully not such a noob
2013-03-14T23:53:38 < mervaka> haha
2013-03-14T23:53:45 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/yuaYu.png <- here's one with routing on inner
2013-03-14T23:53:54 < Laurenceb_> put hot air up to max
2013-03-14T23:53:58 < Laurenceb_> 450C or something
2013-03-14T23:54:06 < mervaka> one guy here a few years ago was making a hydrogen fuel cell. whole thing exploded
2013-03-14T23:54:13 < mervaka> that was fun
2013-03-14T23:54:26 < mervaka> water everywhere :)
2013-03-14T23:54:47 < Laurenceb_> steam surely?
2013-03-14T23:54:58 -!- DLPeterson [~hazelnuss@169.237.184.179] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-14T23:55:26 < mervaka> and steam
2013-03-14T23:56:10 < mervaka> got test results back today from my renewable energy test.. 95% \o/
2013-03-14T23:56:11 < Laurenceb_> one of them dropped all the LEDs on the floor :-/
2013-03-14T23:56:17 < Laurenceb_> im not picking them up...
2013-03-14T23:56:41 < mervaka> i think you should make them all wear red shirts.
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--- Day changed Fri Mar 15 2013
2013-03-15T00:01:39 -!- alexn [~alexn@178-27-128-46-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2013-03-15T00:02:09 < Laurenceb_> my soldering lesson: 1) through hole resistor, 2) through hole cap 3) ADXL345
2013-03-15T00:02:20 < mervaka> rofl
2013-03-15T00:02:25 < Laurenceb_> at point 3 i go for lunch
2013-03-15T00:02:30 < mervaka> first year students?
2013-03-15T00:02:59 < Laurenceb_> second
2013-03-15T00:03:07 < Laurenceb_> they should be able to solder by now
2013-03-15T00:03:18 < Laurenceb_> but they cant :-/
2013-03-15T00:03:47 < mervaka> whuttuf
2013-03-15T00:03:49 < Erlkoenig> ... Computer Science Students *should* also be able to program :D
2013-03-15T00:04:03 < mervaka> Laurenceb_: electronics degree?
2013-03-15T00:04:08 < Erlkoenig> ... or know why 1KB = 1024Bytes, and not 1000Bytes
2013-03-15T00:04:16 < Erlkoenig> ... but they don't.
2013-03-15T00:04:41 -!- a2cypher [~cypher@mail.krausglobal.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2013-03-15T00:05:08 < zyp> Erlkoenig, so, how many bytes is a 1.44MB floppy?
2013-03-15T00:05:12 < mervaka> and i thought my uni was hapless..
2013-03-15T00:06:35 < Erlkoenig> zyp: 1536000?
2013-03-15T00:06:50 < zyp> no
2013-03-15T00:07:23 < Erlkoenig> 2048000?
2013-03-15T00:07:23 < zyp> and no, it's not 1440000 either
2013-03-15T00:07:40 < zyp> the correct answer is 1474560
2013-03-15T00:08:11 < mervaka> 1440kb
2013-03-15T00:08:13 < mervaka> :p
2013-03-15T00:08:21 < zyp> 1.44 * 1000 * 1024 bytes :D
2013-03-15T00:08:29 < mervaka> laff
2013-03-15T00:08:32 < mtbg> :>
2013-03-15T00:08:55 -!- DLPeterson [~hazelnuss@169.237.184.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2013-03-15T00:09:07 < mervaka> btw, can i get a second opinion?
2013-03-15T00:09:20 < mervaka> buying a function gen
2013-03-15T00:09:21 < mervaka> http://uk.farnell.com/gw-instek/afg-2125/generator-function-arb-dds-25mhz/dp/2100024
2013-03-15T00:10:14 < Erlkoenig> wikipedia says 2000 KB for 3.5'' Floppies... would mean 2048000 Bytes
2013-03-15T00:11:17 < cTn> :(
2013-03-15T00:13:46 < mtbg> ok one more usb related thing: what I'm going to do is to interface ULPI high speed phy with stm32f407 - are the phy configuration registers which are listed in the phy datasheet handled transparently by usb MAC in the microcontroller?
2013-03-15T00:16:18 < mtbg> I guess they are, some of them would be redundant to the MAC configuration otherwise
2013-03-15T00:24:15 < Toneloc> mervaka- try ebay yet?#
2013-03-15T00:24:42 < Toneloc> you know, there is actually a very cheap DDS module , i got one and plan to make a sig gen from it
2013-03-15T00:25:28 < mtbg> what module?
2013-03-15T00:26:12 < mtbg> ad9850 based one?
2013-03-15T00:26:16 < Toneloc> mtbg- this>>http://www.ebay.com/itm/AD9850-DDS-Signal-Generator-Module-0-40MHz-New-/270864751254
2013-03-15T00:26:37 < mtbg> pretty cheap
2013-03-15T00:26:44 < Toneloc> yeap, sure is
2013-03-15T00:27:16 < mervaka> hmm
2013-03-15T00:28:15 < Toneloc> this provides a good overview>>
2013-03-15T00:28:32 < Toneloc> www.g4jnt.com/AD9850-Controller.pdf
2013-03-15T00:29:11 < emeb> mervaka: ever figure out your I2S DMA problem?
2013-03-15T00:29:20 < mervaka> emeb: sort of.
2013-03-15T00:29:33 < mervaka> never really "figured it out"
2013-03-15T00:29:57 < mervaka> but reduced the buffer size so that the interrupt frequency was above nyquist, and the symptoms disappeared
2013-03-15T00:30:05 < emeb> mervaka: a guy I work with is also having trouble with using both I2S on an F405.
2013-03-15T00:30:18 < mervaka> yeah
2013-03-15T00:30:25 < mervaka> something's definitely not right.
2013-03-15T00:30:32 < mervaka> not too worried though
2013-03-15T00:30:35 < emeb> he gave up trying to do DMA and not does it all per-sample.
2013-03-15T00:30:39 < mervaka> next prototype will be rather different
2013-03-15T00:30:45 < mervaka> oh god.
2013-03-15T00:30:52 < emeb> that's what I thought
2013-03-15T00:31:01 < mervaka> fuck that
2013-03-15T00:31:30 < emeb> He asked for a 2nd opinion from some hotshot STM programmer who said DMA on both I2S was impossible.
2013-03-15T00:31:37 < emeb> No further explanation though.
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2013-03-15T00:32:48 < mervaka> oh right..
2013-03-15T00:32:52 < mervaka> so yeah, my next prototype will use an 8ch ADC over TDM
2013-03-15T00:33:07 < mervaka> TDM will go into an nxp lpx4300 via sgpio
2013-03-15T00:33:07 < emeb> what you driving TDM with?
2013-03-15T00:33:10 < emeb> ah
2013-03-15T00:33:36 < mervaka> never tried using sgpio before, so i'm intreigued.
2013-03-15T00:33:49 < emeb> bitbang!
2013-03-15T00:34:08 < mervaka> haha
2013-03-15T00:34:09 < mervaka> no.
2013-03-15T00:34:12 < mervaka> :p
2013-03-15T00:36:07 < zyp> I hear sgpio is so-so
2013-03-15T00:36:46 < zyp> I talked to somebody that said it was «nice, but just not flexible enough»
2013-03-15T00:37:17 < mervaka> nxp site says it can do tdm :)
2013-03-15T00:45:24 <+Steffanx> I heard this french guy liked it VERY  VERY much zyp :) :) :) :)
2013-03-15T00:46:25 < mervaka> ok i'm off. nn guys x
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2013-03-15T00:48:10 < karlp> hey emeb, if I have an IIR filter coeffs in floating point, how do I convert them into q15 (or q31) ? just << 15 and truncate into an int?
2013-03-15T00:48:50 < zyp> huh?
2013-03-15T00:53:14 < karlp> I have a filter coeff like 0.0229151,
2013-03-15T00:53:15 < karlp> and it all works
2013-03-15T00:53:27 < karlp> but I want to try out the q15/q31 operations in cmsis-dsp
2013-03-15T00:53:37 < karlp> so I need to scale the coeffs
2013-03-15T00:53:51 < karlp> but I don't understand how to do that veryw ell
2013-03-15T00:54:51 < zyp> is that 1.15 and 1.31 floating point, respectively?
2013-03-15T00:55:06 < karlp> fixed point yeah.
2013-03-15T00:55:12 < zyp> fixed* yeah
2013-03-15T00:55:14 < karlp> ok, I found the helpers in cmsis-dsp for it
2013-03-15T00:55:21 < karlp> they say it's src * 32768 for float to q15
2013-03-15T00:55:30 < emeb> karlp: convert a floating pt to fixed point: multiply by 2^(N-1) add 0.5 and truncate.
2013-03-15T00:55:40 < emeb> where N is the number of bits in your fixed point value.
2013-03-15T00:55:46 < zyp> just int16_t(x * float(1 << 15)) and int32_t(x * float(1 << 31))
2013-03-15T00:55:46 < emeb> (assuming signed)
2013-03-15T00:56:42 < emeb> for coeffs I usually round, not truncate.
2013-03-15T00:56:46 < emeb> that'
2013-03-15T00:56:52 < emeb> s what the add 0.5 does.
2013-03-15T00:59:01 < karlp> so if I have a uin12_t (adc sample), what's the "right" way of turning it into the q15?  for the float I did sample/4096
2013-03-15T00:59:32 < emeb> you want signed or unsigned result?
2013-03-15T00:59:39 < zyp> just shift it up four bits
2013-03-15T00:59:55 < emeb> that's for unsigned
2013-03-15T01:00:14 < emeb> otherwise shift up 4 and invert msb
2013-03-15T01:00:52 < zyp> because the adc sample is not signed?
2013-03-15T01:01:24 < karlp> I want signed,
2013-03-15T01:01:24 < emeb> ADC output is offset binary - 0x0000 = 0V, 0x0FFF = Vref
2013-03-15T01:01:44 < karlp> it's a sine wave, and the filter is centering it around 0.
2013-03-15T01:01:50 < zyp> ah, I'm used to adcs that already give signed measurements
2013-03-15T01:02:07 < karlp> using the offset regs on the stm?
2013-03-15T01:02:11 < emeb> karlp - does your filter output negative voltages?
2013-03-15T01:02:16 < karlp> emeb: yep
2013-03-15T01:02:26 < emeb> and you're driving those into the STM32?
2013-03-15T01:02:28 < cTn> BJfreeman: are you around ?
2013-03-15T01:02:30 < karlp> the floating point works quite nicely, the scale of the output is a little off.
2013-03-15T01:02:39 < zyp> inverting msb is equal to adding msb, so that makes sense
2013-03-15T01:02:49 < karlp> into? the filter is just sw on the stm32
2013-03-15T01:02:54 < emeb> zyp: old hardware dsp trick.
2013-03-15T01:03:04 < zyp> yeah
2013-03-15T01:03:14 < emeb> karlp: the voltage you're driving into the ADC - what's its range?
2013-03-15T01:03:30 < karlp> 0-3.3 (well, 0.2 to 3.0 or so)
2013-03-15T01:03:58 < emeb> what's the quiescent voltage? Vdd/2?
2013-03-15T01:04:03 < karlp> it's nominally centered around vcc/2, but it shifts a little bit
2013-03-15T01:04:03 < karlp> yeah
2013-03-15T01:04:21 < emeb> so you can either use the offset regs in the ADC, or just invert the MSB to make it signed.
2013-03-15T01:04:36 < emeb> offset regs = less software cycles @ realtime.
2013-03-15T01:04:56 < karlp> can't I just call it a signed value? the filter seems to be taking care of it anyway
2013-03-15T01:05:13 < emeb> in which case the output value is a signed value and you just shift it up 4 bits to make int16_t
2013-03-15T01:05:23 < karlp> where does the 4 come from?
2013-03-15T01:05:28 < karlp> that's the bit I can't follow
2013-03-15T01:05:36 < emeb> 16bit - 12bit
2013-03-15T01:05:36 < emeb> = 4bit
2013-03-15T01:05:48 < karlp> oh, this is for the raw adc value to turn it into a q15 for the filter
2013-03-15T01:05:53 < karlp> ok, that's fine,
2013-03-15T01:05:55 < emeb> right
2013-03-15T01:06:07 < karlp> and then the filter gives me a q15 output, and I shift it down 4 again?
2013-03-15T01:06:17 < emeb> why?
2013-03-15T01:06:24 < Laurenceb_> rage
2013-03-15T01:06:26 < karlp> symmetry? (I don't know)
2013-03-15T01:06:29 < emeb> why not leave it at 16?
2013-03-15T01:06:41 < emeb> what's the BW of your filter?
2013-03-15T01:06:46 < Laurenceb_> why do i always get unphysical results when i try data fitting to models
2013-03-15T01:06:59 < karlp> 5khz sampling rate, bandpass 20-100hz.
2013-03-15T01:07:32 < Laurenceb_> another day of fail from me
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2013-03-15T01:07:44 < emeb> so your BW is about 80/2500 = 1/31.25
2013-03-15T01:07:58 < emeb> so you'd be picking up about 2.5bits of resolution in the filter
2013-03-15T01:08:48 < karlp> so was this the right way of making my q15 coeffs? http://pastebay.net/1189196
2013-03-15T01:09:57 < emeb> that 1.95 value won't fit in a q15
2013-03-15T01:10:03 < emeb> it overflows
2013-03-15T01:10:07 < karlp> yeah, it warns me of that
2013-03-15T01:10:14 < karlp> can I just shift them all by 14 instead?
2013-03-15T01:10:20 < emeb> yeah
2013-03-15T01:10:37 < karlp> I take it that's what the "postShift" thing is that the cmsis-dsp libs talk about
2013-03-15T01:10:39 < cTn> guys, could you please look and tell me if anything is wrong with this? http://pastebin.com/cDzVkrKF
2013-03-15T01:10:42 < emeb> but make sure the filter api expects the q15 values to cover a +/-2 range
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2013-03-15T01:11:52 < karlp> no, it wants coeffs to be -1 to 1
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2013-03-15T01:12:12 < karlp> Scaling of coefficients: Filter coefficients are represented as fractional values and coefficients are restricted to lie in the range [-1 +1). The fixed-point functions have an additional scaling parameter postShift which allow the filter coefficients to exceed the range [+1 -1). At the output of the filter's accumulator is a shift register which shifts the result by postShift bits.
2013-03-15T01:12:20 < emeb> cTn: this isn't an arduino channel
2013-03-15T01:12:43 < cTn> its an libmaple code, related to stm32
2013-03-15T01:12:57 < mtbg> arduino for stm32?
2013-03-15T01:12:58 < Laurenceb_> lolz
2013-03-15T01:13:04 < zyp> cTn, try #leafblowers
2013-03-15T01:13:04 < mtbg> who'd need that?
2013-03-15T01:13:05 < Laurenceb_> emeb got pwned
2013-03-15T01:13:40 < emeb> karlp: so you'll want to scale by 2^14 and set post-shift to 1.
2013-03-15T01:13:59 < cTn> person who is completely new to stm32 and want to see if the code is at least running on the device might need that
2013-03-15T01:14:06 < karlp> right, tried that, just finished running it.
2013-03-15T01:14:10 < cTn> because being trashed all over is so helpful
2013-03-15T01:14:11 < karlp> just gives me zeros though :)
2013-03-15T01:14:59 < zyp> cTn, nobody else here is using libmaple, I suggest asking in #leafblowers if you want some actual help
2013-03-15T01:15:14 < cTn> thx, i will do that
2013-03-15T01:15:17 < emeb> don't think anyone is being mean. Just facts.
2013-03-15T01:16:06 < zyp> and then half the channel is running over there
2013-03-15T01:16:08 < zyp> :p
2013-03-15T01:16:09 < emeb> karlp: do the integer values of the coeffs look sensible?
2013-03-15T01:16:37 < Laurenceb_> https://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/images/products/1/1/2/8/0/11280-03c.jpg
2013-03-15T01:16:40 < Laurenceb_> quite neat
2013-03-15T01:16:52 < karlp> emeb: reasonable enough: $45 = {16384, 8192, 3129, 2048, 3127} I guess?
2013-03-15T01:16:59 <+Steffanx> arduino-ish style Laurenceb_ ?
2013-03-15T01:17:02 <+Steffanx> *teensy
2013-03-15T01:17:06 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-15T01:17:07 < karlp> hang on, I think I busted the inputs
2013-03-15T01:17:13 < karlp> digesting information and trying again
2013-03-15T01:17:20 < BJfreeman> emeb I use the maple for the maple and stm32 clones
2013-03-15T01:17:40 < emeb> BJfreeman: how do you like it?
2013-03-15T01:18:15 < Laurenceb_> http://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/datasheets/Dev/ARM/maplemini.pdf
2013-03-15T01:18:16 < emeb> Laurenceb_: cute board. very tight layout.
2013-03-15T01:18:29 < Laurenceb_> interesting - they put a ferrite on analogue ground
2013-03-15T01:18:33 < karlp> ok, that's sort of worked, I guess.
2013-03-15T01:18:41 < zyp> maple was the first stm32 board I got
2013-03-15T01:19:05 < emeb> Don't care for isolated grounds myself.
2013-03-15T01:19:24 < zyp> but I had problems getting libmaple going with a cli toolchain, so I went for chibios instead
2013-03-15T01:19:36 < zyp> until I scrapped it and started from scratch
2013-03-15T01:19:51 < BJfreeman> errite is not isolated ground but a filter for RF
2013-03-15T01:20:08 < emeb> Laurenceb_: notice that their bypass caps are 1uf?
2013-03-15T01:20:44 < emeb> BJfreeman: sorry. Don't care for filtered grounds either.
2013-03-15T01:20:45 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-15T01:20:56 < Laurenceb_> i dont really see the point
2013-03-15T01:21:09 < Laurenceb_> if the entire ground is wobbling up and down, who cares ?
2013-03-15T01:21:23 < Laurenceb_> on the other hand, noise can get through an LDO
2013-03-15T01:21:34 < BJfreeman> this is the other maple clone https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/STM32/OLIMEXINO-STM32/
2013-03-15T01:21:35 < Laurenceb_> id put a ferrite before the analogue LDO
2013-03-15T01:21:44 < Laurenceb_> with a 100 of 1u cap after it
2013-03-15T01:22:30 < Laurenceb_> i.e. pi filter
2013-03-15T01:22:56  * Laurenceb_ zzz
2013-03-15T01:23:04 < emeb> You can do that.
2013-03-15T01:23:17 < Laurenceb_> i dont have insomnia, so yes
2013-03-15T01:23:26 < Laurenceb_>  :P
2013-03-15T01:23:32 < emeb> LDOs generally have pretty good HF rejection
2013-03-15T01:23:50 < emeb> esp in this case where the digital supply is also from an LDO.
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2013-03-15T01:25:36 < emeb> heh - I see the copypasta'd the same lame-ass 2-transistor USB pullup disconnect ckt here too.
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2013-03-15T02:24:48 < dongs> HAI LETS TAKE PROCESSOR PACKAGE WITH 100 PINS AND THEN PUT IT IN TARDUINO FORM FACTOR AND ONLY BREAK OUT LIKE 12 PINS FROM THAT.
2013-03-15T02:24:58 < dongs> WONDERFUL IDEA
2013-03-15T02:25:39 < zyp> good morning
2013-03-15T02:26:34 < emeb> what a senseless waste of I/O
2013-03-15T02:36:00 < dongs> fucking asshole.
2013-03-15T02:36:02 < dongs> s.
2013-03-15T02:37:02 < dongs> #stm32 #arduino #rage #morning
2013-03-15T02:37:11 < dongs> </tweet>
2013-03-15T02:37:56 < zyp> :)
2013-03-15T02:38:53 < dongs> zyp, status of posting those pics to chinese
2013-03-15T02:39:05 < dongs> oh!
2013-03-15T02:39:09 < dongs> hey, since y ours is broken
2013-03-15T02:39:14 < dongs> i need you to take it apart later
2013-03-15T02:39:18 < zyp> I already did
2013-03-15T02:39:19 < dongs> i wanna know if they have those DC coupling caps
2013-03-15T02:39:22 < dongs> on the lanes
2013-03-15T02:39:27 <+dekar__> dongs, don't chip manufacturers do the same by putting an IC in a small package and only bonding some of the pins?
2013-03-15T02:39:29 < zyp> hang on, I'll take a look
2013-03-15T02:39:38 < dongs> also, hirespics would be nice
2013-03-15T02:40:17 < emeb> dekar__: but usually they have the decency to charge you less for it. :)
2013-03-15T02:40:55 < zyp> hmm, caps would have to be under the metal shields, haven't desoldered those
2013-03-15T02:40:57 < zyp> (yet)
2013-03-15T02:41:09 <+dekar__> emeb, you're mistaking artificial market segmentation for decency :P
2013-03-15T02:41:14 < dongs> oh? is it shieldeed even after the big main cover?
2013-03-15T02:41:37 < zyp> the controller board sits outside the main cover
2013-03-15T02:41:40 < emeb> dekar__: looks the same on the outside.
2013-03-15T02:42:00 < zyp> the flat cable is soldered directly to the controller board
2013-03-15T02:42:11 < zyp> which is glued to the back of the main cover
2013-03-15T02:42:23 < zyp> don't you see the shields?
2013-03-15T02:43:05 < dongs> i saw the metal shield, b ut I Thought once thats out the pcb is exposed fully
2013-03-15T02:43:14 < dongs> i didnt bother taking that out since i only have working screens
2013-03-15T02:43:38 < zyp> oh, wait, there are some silk markings here, for caps and shit
2013-03-15T02:44:03 < zyp> it has C0N, C0P, C1N, C1P and so on, so I guess that's what you're asking about
2013-03-15T02:44:14 < dongs> they're blank?
2013-03-15T02:44:16 < dongs> or mounted
2013-03-15T02:44:24 < zyp> just a silk map
2013-03-15T02:44:29 < zyp> actual caps are probably under shield
2013-03-15T02:44:33 < dongs> ah
2013-03-15T02:46:01 < zyp> the backlight is driven by two flexpcb boards, one on each of the long edges
2013-03-15T02:46:28 < zyp> each has a common anode and six cathodes
2013-03-15T02:46:48 < zyp> so 12 in total, but we already knew that
2013-03-15T02:46:54 < dongs> ya
2013-03-15T02:47:15 < zyp> they are mounted in an interleaved fashion
2013-03-15T02:47:46 < zyp> so shutting down some chains should not cause parts of the screen to get dark
2013-03-15T02:48:56 < zyp> oh, by the way, were you serious about this?
2013-03-15T02:48:57 < zyp> 17:37:43 < dongs> or maybe you want me to send you one in jp?
2013-03-15T02:49:10 < zyp> if so I might take you up on that
2013-03-15T02:49:19 < dongs> right
2013-03-15T02:49:20 < zyp> because it's not like a replacement would arrive before I go
2013-03-15T02:49:22 < dongs> because i still have 2-3 here
2013-03-15T02:49:24 < dongs> right
2013-03-15T02:51:24 < zyp> though, I guess I might even be able to find some in akihabara
2013-03-15T02:51:51 < zyp> they usually have a bunch of replacement shit there
2013-03-15T02:52:47 < dongs> lol.
2013-03-15T02:52:49 < dongs> good luck.
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2013-03-15T02:58:57 < dongs> you must be going to some super sekret akikebara
2013-03-15T02:59:03 < dongs> the one wiht everything.
2013-03-15T02:59:43 < zyp> nah, I just remember having seen iphone parts here and there
2013-03-15T03:03:57 < dongs> i remember seeing power cords and useles DIP parts
2013-03-15T03:04:47 < zyp> I remember buying a discovery board
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2013-03-15T03:48:54 < johntramp> is there any advantage/disadvantage in using shorts instead of ints as the iterator in a for loop? or are they stored as an integer type and just masked on read?
2013-03-15T03:50:59 < zyp> all registers are 32 bits
2013-03-15T03:51:38 < johntramp> yes, so will a short use an entire register, packed out with zeros?
2013-03-15T03:51:47 < zyp> yes
2013-03-15T03:52:01 < johntramp> so may as well use int
2013-03-15T03:52:31 < zyp> all arithmetic instructions are also operation on 32 bits, so using smaller variable sizes may add extra overhead to mask out the top of the register
2013-03-15T03:52:41 < zyp> operating*
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2013-03-15T03:53:40 < johntramp> so is there any advantage of using shorts
2013-03-15T03:54:40 < Erlkoenig> if you store a lot of numbers in the RAM, short array's will save memory...
2013-03-15T03:55:17 < zyp> http://false.ekta.is/2012/07/code-size-changes-with-int-on-8bit-and-32bit-platforms/ <- FWIW karlp did some benchmarks once
2013-03-15T03:55:19 < johntramp> yes but when for eg iterating over an array, the 'i' never touches ram does it?
2013-03-15T04:07:26 < X-warrior`> does anybody works with stm32f103?
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2013-03-15T04:59:41 < dongs> yeah int is faster than uint8 type shit for loops
2013-03-15T04:59:52 < dongs> X-warrior`: just about everyone in here
2013-03-15T05:00:00 < dongs> faster -> usually results in smaller code, anyway
2013-03-15T05:00:06 < dongs> few bytes less w/keil when i was testing it
2013-03-15T05:00:11 < dongs> depends on what else is in the function of course
2013-03-15T05:02:30 < gxti> heh, i have some bad habits using uint8_t everywhere
2013-03-15T05:03:34 < emeb_mac> what's wrong with that?
2013-03-15T05:14:41 < zippe> emeb_mac: it's generally less efficient than using the native word size
2013-03-15T05:15:30 < emeb_mac> is it less efficient or no more efficient?
2013-03-15T05:17:41 < gxti> 8 bit integers have to behave like 8 bit integers
2013-03-15T05:18:05 < gxti> so unless the cpu has registers or instructions just for that, you need extra instructions to truncate results
2013-03-15T05:18:47 < Erlkoenig> there should be an "at least 8 bit" datatype, so that the compiler can choose the most efficient one...
2013-03-15T05:19:55 < emeb_mac> ARM cpu doesn't have explicit 8-bit instructions?
2013-03-15T05:20:19 < zippe> emeb_mac: the machine is optimised for 32-bit transfers
2013-03-15T05:20:43 < zippe> emeb_mac: depending on what you're actually doing, you may be screwed by C's implicit promotion to int
2013-03-15T05:20:55 < zippe> and repeated sign extension, etc.
2013-03-15T05:21:38 < zippe> Whether byte ops are actually slower or just no faster depends a bit on which CPU and which memory fabric you're on
2013-03-15T05:21:56 < zippe> Erlkoenig: 'unsigned' is your friend
2013-03-15T05:22:10 < emeb_mac> zippe: interesting. I tend to use int32_t and uint32_t so this means all I'm wasting is memory.
2013-03-15T05:22:26 < zippe> uint32_t is OK too
2013-03-15T05:22:34 < X-warrior`> dongs, nice... I'm with some problems with it (without discovery board)... keil seems to be payed and uploading it from terminal using stm32loader seems to give me the correct upload (with verify) but it does seem my code doesn't run :S
2013-03-15T05:23:15 < zippe> I tend to use 'uint32_t' to mean "I expect 32 bits", and 'unsigned' to mean "positive integer of sensible size"
2013-03-15T05:23:26 < zippe> s/positive/non-negative/
2013-03-15T05:24:20 < ds2> what is with this insistance on a particular size all over the place?
2013-03-15T05:24:22 < zippe> But in general, it is worth remembering that every arithmetic operator casts both its arguments to int before being evaluated
2013-03-15T05:24:37 < zippe> ds2: battle scars related to the use of 'long'
2013-03-15T05:24:53 < ds2> zippe: which ones?
2013-03-15T05:25:04 < ds2> casting btwn longs and void *?
2013-03-15T05:25:15 < zippe> There was a lot of code written for DOS and x86 unix back in the day where 'int' was 16 bits and 'long' was 32 bits.
2013-03-15T05:25:31 < zippe> And many other cases where 'long' was used as a generally portable 32-bit type
2013-03-15T05:25:31 < ds2> oh that one
2013-03-15T05:25:54 < zippe> The Alpha, and then x86_64, and sparc64 are all generally run I32LP64
2013-03-15T05:26:07 < zippe> Windows, IIRC, is still IL32P64
2013-03-15T05:26:10 < ds2> long is 64 bit on x86_64, isn't it?
2013-03-15T05:26:16 < ds2> or was that long long?
2013-03-15T05:26:22 < zippe> ds2: that's up to the compiler
2013-03-15T05:26:25 < baird> I was like O_O the first time I hit a (Sparc) system where int as 32 bits..
2013-03-15T05:26:35 < emeb_mac> and that right there is why I like stdint.
2013-03-15T05:26:38 < zippe> And this is why many of us now just insist on explicit sizes anywhere that it matters
2013-03-15T05:26:38 < ds2> but how often do you really need to know the size?
2013-03-15T05:26:57 < ds2> if it really did mattered, I wouldn't be so annoyed
2013-03-15T05:27:06 < zippe> It does matter, more than you seem to think
2013-03-15T05:27:10 < ds2> got some places that insist on 'int' and unsigned int to be never used
2013-03-15T05:27:18 < dongs> X-warrior`: why the fuck would you develop in keil and then use some opensource aids to upload?
2013-03-15T05:27:24 < dongs> chose stlink driver in keil and upload/debug wiht it
2013-03-15T05:27:35 < zippe> ds2: yup, that's a reasonable way to avoid size issues related to portability.
2013-03-15T05:27:38 < X-warrior`> well, I'm not developing with keil
2013-03-15T05:27:49 < X-warrior`> and I don't have stlink hardware
2013-03-15T05:28:02 < ds2> zippe: how does it make sense if the variable is solely used as in index in a loop, where the loop is: for (i = 0; i < 32; i++)?
2013-03-15T05:28:54 < gxti> signed vs unsigned char is also obnoxious, but that's a general C issue
2013-03-15T05:29:01 < zippe> ds2: because a) the loop limit conditions might change, and b) when there are other loops that are for (i = 0x80000000; i < 0xf0000000; i+= 0x01000000) it's nice to have a standard type in all cases.
2013-03-15T05:29:25 < zippe> ds2: there is no harm using uint32_t in your example
2013-03-15T05:29:28 < dongs> X-warrior`: then you better invest in a debugger.
2013-03-15T05:29:37 < zippe> ds2: but 'int' is total fail for mine
2013-03-15T05:29:38 < dongs> X-warrior`: you can't develop on ARM tarduino upl0ad-and-pray style
2013-03-15T05:29:44 < ds2> zippe: sure there is... some chips are still 16bit ints
2013-03-15T05:29:47 < zippe> dongs: what?
2013-03-15T05:29:52 < ds2> msp430
2013-03-15T05:30:00 < ds2> registers are 16bit
2013-03-15T05:30:14 < zippe> ds2: correct, and in that case the second example will fail even worse for 'int'
2013-03-15T05:30:20 < dongs> ok, "cant" isnt the right word. can, but you might as well just use a tarduino.
2013-03-15T05:30:40 < zippe> ds2: but if you use uint32_t, then mine will work just fine.
2013-03-15T05:30:54 < zippe> ds2: If that's important to your codebase, then you want to use an explicitly sized type.
2013-03-15T05:31:00 < ds2> right but in my example, you pay the price for not using a native data size
2013-03-15T05:31:11 < Erlkoenig> a debugger for embedded systems is incredible useful...
2013-03-15T05:31:13 < zippe> ds2: yes, that's too bad. If you want portability, you pay for it.
2013-03-15T05:31:42 < zippe> ds2: personally, I prefer 'unsigned' for loop iterators and I don't like large loop increments; better to factor the increment and scale inside the loop.
2013-03-15T05:31:48 < X-warrior`> well I definetly want a debugger but while I can't get one I would like to play with it
2013-03-15T05:31:49 < X-warrior`> :S
2013-03-15T05:32:02 < zippe> ds2: have you read the JSF C++ coding doc?
2013-03-15T05:32:15 < zippe> ds2: it does a reasonable job of explaining things like that
2013-03-15T05:32:22 < ds2> i prefer to use native data types and deal with issues later if someone ports it to a processor that can't support it...
2013-03-15T05:32:23 < zippe> ds2: the JPL C coding standard's not bad either
2013-03-15T05:32:29 < ds2> zippe: that's the automotive one?
2013-03-15T05:32:33 < ds2> or another one?
2013-03-15T05:32:35 < zippe> ds2: no, that's MISRA
2013-03-15T05:32:43 < ds2> then no
2013-03-15T05:32:46 < zippe> JSF C++ builds off MISRA
2013-03-15T05:33:21 < ds2> but by that line of reasoning, if someone mods to to use 64 bits of data, it'll blow up too
2013-03-15T05:34:20 < zippe> ds2: right, but if they need that, they can use an explicitly sized type and know that in all cases they get 64 bits, even on your MSP430
2013-03-15T05:34:42 < gxti> the point is that loop vars often don't care what the size is, at all
2013-03-15T05:35:04 < gxti> but if you write 'int' maybe it saves a few instructions, and in a loop it might actually matter
2013-03-15T05:35:19 < gxti> obviously anything where size is critical you use uintxx_t
2013-03-15T05:35:22 < zippe> ds2: I have a bunch of coding standards in the "further reading" section herE:
2013-03-15T05:35:22 < zippe> https://pixhawk.ethz.ch/px4/dev/code_style
2013-03-15T05:36:46 < ds2> yes, what gxti said
2013-03-15T05:36:47 < X-warrior`> what does tarduino means?
2013-03-15T05:36:47 < X-warrior`> lol
2013-03-15T05:37:21 < baird> lol: "if you didn't turn [the prototype ARM devboard] off for very long then it didn't reset properly, and this was because the fan on the board was still spinning and the back EMF on the fan was enough power to keep the ARM running."
2013-03-15T05:37:33 < gxti> loooooool
2013-03-15T05:37:42 < gxti> how do you even.
2013-03-15T05:37:51 < ds2> cool
2013-03-15T05:38:00 < ds2> mechanical analog to a super cap
2013-03-15T05:39:14 < ds2> wonder if anyone made a super inductor that can hold power for minutes
2013-03-15T05:39:22 < zippe> gxti: premature optimisation is the root of all evil
2013-03-15T05:39:39 < gxti> misappropriation of that quote is a close second though
2013-03-15T05:40:05 < gxti> using uint8_t for every loop var is *also* premature optimization, except it's also useless
2013-03-15T05:40:39 < ds2> one should not be deciding on the data size unnecessarily
2013-03-15T05:45:04 < zippe> ds2: experience says otherwise, is really all I can say
2013-03-15T05:45:47 < zippe> Like, thousands of developer years and billions of dollars
2013-03-15T05:45:57 < ds2> problems I have seen suggests otherwise
2013-03-15T05:46:19 < ds2> none of that will help when developers insist that pointers are always 32 bit
2013-03-15T05:47:34 < zippe> that's what uintptr_t is for.
2013-03-15T05:48:30 < zippe> There are a bunch of other mechanisms for ensuring sensible type sizes as well
2013-03-15T05:49:39 < zippe> Look for the (u)int_least_* types
2013-03-15T05:49:56 < zippe> And likewise the _fast_ versions
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2013-03-15T06:10:14 < dongs> uh oh, fucking great
2013-03-15T06:10:18 < dongs> my china oven took a shit
2013-03-15T06:10:23 < dongs> in the middle of work, too
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2013-03-15T06:12:09 < R2COM1> run to the local shop get a cheapo one and do it by hand
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2013-03-15T06:12:29 < R2COM1> get a beer too, if you are already in a shop
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2013-03-15T06:17:44 < ds2> dongs: now your office is all ashes?
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2013-03-15T07:03:03 < dongs> ds2: pretty much
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2013-03-15T07:38:38 < emeb_mac> dongs aflame.
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2013-03-15T07:57:33 < baird> faptime .. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/103294228/IMG_20130302_174459.jpg  (SYM-1 revision. Hate to think how much a board that size is, too..)
2013-03-15T07:58:45 < dongs> rofl
2013-03-15T07:58:55 < dongs> what the hell is that?
2013-03-15T07:58:59 < dongs> some commodore clone?
2013-03-15T07:59:54 < baird> pre-Commodore. A clone of one of the first 6502 SBCs.
2013-03-15T08:00:26 < R2COM> so whats the purpose of it?
2013-03-15T08:00:29 < baird> I restored one a few years ago, and the mate with it has a collection of 3 now.
2013-03-15T08:00:30 < R2COM> just 100% perfect clone?
2013-03-15T08:00:36 < R2COM> some amusement I guess
2013-03-15T08:00:37 < R2COM> ?
2013-03-15T08:01:16 < baird> Not 100%; expansion for USB, uses current NVRAM/SRAM, etc. Dunno what he's going to do for the 6532 RIOT chip, though.
2013-03-15T08:01:53 < baird> He wants his 15 seconds on hackaday, I guess.
2013-03-15T08:02:00 < R2COM> I never owned commodore though
2013-03-15T08:03:16 < Gargantuasauce_> i have three of the damn things gathering dust, gotta get around to getting one up and running and messing with the SID
2013-03-15T08:03:18 < baird> Ha, omg, it'll have a /real/ UART chip :D ...I spent a lot of time trying to improve the bitbang soft-serial of the SYM-1.
2013-03-15T08:04:22 < baird> microsd, and takes up to 512kB SRAM...
2013-03-15T08:05:40 < R2COM> you cloning this one? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Commodore-64-Back.jpg
2013-03-15T08:06:31 < baird> We wrote a harddrive disk OS for the SYM-1.. When there's 40GB, you don't bother with file allocation. :)
2013-03-15T08:07:26 < R2COM> and its gona run what
2013-03-15T08:07:27 < R2COM> Geos?
2013-03-15T08:07:45 < Gargantuasauce_> i was thinking of making a drive emulator that fetches files from a network share
2013-03-15T08:08:42 < baird> I did that as well. the 6522IDE interface did R/W at ~14.5kB/s, my parallel 'PP' device did 8.5kB/s to a Linux box.
2013-03-15T08:09:06 < Gargantuasauce_> cool
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2013-03-15T08:10:01 < baird> The SYM1's assembler was patched to run from DOS; I also ported EhBASIC, MSBASIC, FIG-Forth, G-Pascal.
2013-03-15T08:10:20 < baird> It needed a non-line text editor, though. :/
2013-03-15T08:19:08 < dongs> wtf the fucking fuse is like all charred to shits
2013-03-15T08:19:23 < dongs> and t he dumb chink is having a fit when Im asking if I should just replace the fuse and hope shit worsk or is more of the shit is broken
2013-03-15T08:19:26 < dongs> fucking pieces of shit
2013-03-15T08:19:40 < dongs> causse fuses don't fucking blow for no fucking reason
2013-03-15T08:19:58 < dongs> achievment unlocked: blocked on skype by chinkstove engineer
2013-03-15T08:34:24 < emeb_mac> rude
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2013-03-15T08:36:51 < dongs> yea im sure im never buying from them again
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2013-03-15T08:38:05 < emeb_mac> one customer down, millions more to go...
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2013-03-15T09:02:44 < zippe> I'm trying to explain to a bunch of silicon engineers why they should understand HDLC
2013-03-15T09:03:12 < zippe> Because, what I really want is a ~100Mbps implementation of the Z80SCC with a bigger FIFO
2013-03-15T09:03:39 < zippe> And none of them, not one, has any idea what the SCC is, or even what a Z80 is.
2013-03-15T09:03:42 < zippe> *facepalm
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2013-03-15T09:11:18 < scrts> zippe -> why do You want such Z80?
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2013-03-15T09:15:15 < zippe> scrts: because HDLC / SDLC is still much better than SPI for a peer to peer data link
2013-03-15T09:15:57 < scrts> no, I mean why do You need Z80 at all?
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2013-03-15T09:25:17 < emeb_mac> lawd - how old are these "engineers"?
2013-03-15T09:26:18 < ds2> hmm so you are up as late as me... it was just an illusion of the timezones...
2013-03-15T09:26:39 < emeb_mac> that's right - we're in the same zone now
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2013-03-15T09:55:07 < dongs> k fuse fixed it
2013-03-15T09:55:45 < dongs> the blog zone
2013-03-15T10:08:45 < R2COM> hmm
2013-03-15T10:08:49 < R2COM> I dont know what is SCC
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2013-03-15T10:09:36 < R2COM> but know what Zilog is
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2013-03-15T10:10:32 < R2COM> and work with silicons
2013-03-15T10:11:16 < R2COM> and now time to sleep
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2013-03-15T13:48:44 < karlp> stupid link orders
2013-03-15T13:48:50 < karlp> I had -lm early,
2013-03-15T13:48:58 < karlp> but then linked agains tthe cmsis-dsp lib later,
2013-03-15T13:49:05 < karlp> but that failed when it wanted sqrtf
2013-03-15T13:49:11 < karlp> had to puyt -lm afterwords
2013-03-15T13:52:13 < jpa-> --start-group --end-group
2013-03-15T13:55:31 < Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/01/steve_bong_peerage/
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2013-03-15T14:16:18 < dongs> karlp: lol, lunixproblemsd
2013-03-15T14:16:55 < dongs> apparently you can run stm32 at 125khz
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2013-03-15T14:23:37 < dongs> bedtime
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2013-03-15T14:44:50 < karlp> woops, segfaulted gdb
2013-03-15T14:45:02 < karlp> didn't like doig info break after switching files underneath it
2013-03-15T14:46:51 < Bird|lappy> yeah, I'm not sure if any debugger will like that ;)
2013-03-15T14:47:19 < Bird|lappy> better than having your debugger segfault on startup because its choking on the paths in your debug symbols though...oh, Inspect, how I remember you so...
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2013-03-15T15:34:17 < Tectu> dongs, how's it going with the BMPs?
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2013-03-15T15:47:04 < baird> Why are all these French machines trying to rape port 61 of my networks.. :/
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2013-03-15T15:55:25 < Laurenceb> cheese port?
2013-03-15T15:57:48 < baird> They're doing it at ~80kB/s too, which is a pita over a business ADSL link. :/
2013-03-15T15:59:15 < baird> (AU business links: go over quota, pay monies; unlike residentials, where they shape you here)
2013-03-15T15:59:18 < Laurenceb> serious business
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2013-03-15T16:08:13 < Laurenceb> im bored
2013-03-15T16:08:38 < Laurenceb> more trolling required
2013-03-15T16:08:56 < baird> DDoS 2.2.128.1 and 2.2.130.1 for me.
2013-03-15T16:09:52 < baird> this guy too: http://www.abuseipdb.com/report-history/5.5.129.1
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2013-03-15T16:13:11 < baird> Very suspicious that the same attack is coming from N.N.128|129|130.1
2013-03-15T16:18:41 <+dekar_> baird, TCP? Tarpit it :)
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2013-03-15T16:30:12 <+Steffanx> They just like you baird
2013-03-15T16:31:26 < baird> This old kernel on the firewall can't into tarpit..
2013-03-15T16:37:59 < trepidaciousMBR> Does anyone know what clock rate the STM32F4 DCMI should handle, for 8 bit data and DMA to SRAM?
2013-03-15T16:42:34 < trepidaciousMBR> I previously thought about 24MHz, anything over that gave FIFO overruns, however it's now working fine at 57MHz
2013-03-15T16:43:06 < emeb_mac> not bad
2013-03-15T16:44:26 <+Steffanx> Doesn't the datasheet says it can do pixel clocks up to 54MHz => 8bit => 54MBit?
2013-03-15T16:45:17 <+Steffanx> mbyte of course :)
2013-03-15T16:50:59 < trepidaciousMBR> Ah, I don't think I've seen that - which datasheet?
2013-03-15T16:51:50 < trepidaciousMBR> Ah, you're completely right!
2013-03-15T16:52:05 < trepidaciousMBR> I'd better tweak the clocks so it's 54 not 57.5MHz ;)
2013-03-15T16:58:37 <+Steffanx> Doing fancy camera stuff or what?
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2013-03-15T17:09:58 < Laurenceb> whold be good for talking to an ADC
2013-03-15T17:12:03 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb and this many bit ADC fetish :)
2013-03-15T17:12:18 <+Steffanx> + low noise
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2013-03-15T17:26:22 <+dekar_> baird, pass it through the firewall and tarpit is at some other machine
2013-03-15T17:28:03 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip72-223-89-10.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: emeb_mac]
2013-03-15T17:28:53 <+Steffanx> Or just care less?
2013-03-15T17:29:14 <+Steffanx> Someone with an old 286 is DDoSing baird D:
2013-03-15T17:34:35 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip72-223-89-10.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-15T17:37:08 <+dekar_> I am pretty glad my connection is unmetered :)
2013-03-15T17:38:38 <+Steffanx> Here it's metered, but the meter goes to FUP or so
2013-03-15T17:38:52 <+Steffanx> And FUP is like .. unlimited for 'normal' users
2013-03-15T17:44:24 -!- trepidaciousMBR [~trepidaci@176.62.208.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2013-03-15T17:45:39 <+dekar_> What does that mean? Do they arbitrarily tell you at some point, that you aren't a normal user anymore?
2013-03-15T17:46:58 <+Steffanx> dunno, never tried it
2013-03-15T17:47:03 <+Steffanx> Fair Use Policy it mean
2013-03-15T17:47:03 <+Steffanx> s
2013-03-15T17:49:44 < emeb> This is the only FUP I knew: http://www.powells.com/blog/book-news/a-tribute-to-fup-store-cat-by-ron-silberstein/
2013-03-15T17:50:36 <+dekar_> They do offer 100GB fair use contracts here, but they're only 3-4€ cheaper and I don't like to get throttled in case I use more than that
2013-03-15T17:50:54 <+Steffanx> According to some sources the FUP here is more than that
2013-03-15T17:50:57 <+Steffanx> So not really an issue
2013-03-15T17:52:29 <+dekar_> Traffic can't be that expensive in Europe to begin with, you get several TB/mo with servers these days
2013-03-15T17:56:14 < baird> 2013 ...and DDoS without a financial incentive? :/
2013-03-15T17:56:35 < BJfreeman> in 2007 the promotion was unlimited for cell data. I still have it though they have tried to modify the policy. finally if i upgrade to 4G I loose my grandfather unlimited status
2013-03-15T17:59:48 <+dekar_> We had unmetered 3g here as well, but they stopped offering that about 7 years ago :/
2013-03-15T18:00:55 <+Steffanx> I think it's never been unlimited here.. now it's even VERY expensive and 1-2Gbyte/month limits
2013-03-15T18:01:04 <+Steffanx> So expensive that's it not worth it for me
2013-03-15T18:02:23 -!- x-warrior [~x_warrior@unaffiliated/x-warrior] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-15T18:06:31 <+Steffanx> And nowadays we have free internet in most trains, so another reason why i dont need  it :)
2013-03-15T18:11:31 < Laurenceb> lolzors
2013-03-15T18:11:37 < Laurenceb> just installed ubuntu 12.10
2013-03-15T18:11:44 <+Steffanx> poor you
2013-03-15T18:11:51 < Laurenceb> its redrawing the terminal at 1frame/100seconds
2013-03-15T18:12:05 <+Steffanx> What is just said
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2013-03-15T18:15:15 < mtbg> hi
2013-03-15T18:16:35 < zyp> hi
2013-03-15T18:18:58 <+Steffanx> *lo
2013-03-15T18:19:55 < Laurenceb> lol what an unmitigated clusterfuck
2013-03-15T18:20:06 < Laurenceb> no new screen updates in the past 10 minutes
2013-03-15T18:20:21 < Laurenceb> cpu at 100%
2013-03-15T18:20:28 < emeb> reboot
2013-03-15T18:20:44 < Laurenceb> tried that
2013-03-15T18:20:50 < Laurenceb> it fails each time
2013-03-15T18:21:06 < emeb> you've got the touch
2013-03-15T18:21:33 < Laurenceb> one more tiem
2013-03-15T18:21:51 < Laurenceb> booting...
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2013-03-15T18:26:16 < Laurenceb> "gpu lockup"
2013-03-15T18:27:53 -!- daku is now known as DaKu
2013-03-15T18:29:52 <+Steffanx> I wonder how you manage to screw things up like that sometimes, Laurenceb :)
2013-03-15T18:30:20 <+Steffanx> Anyway, stop using ubuntu, PLEASE
2013-03-15T18:31:50 < Laurenceb> heh
2013-03-15T18:31:55 < Laurenceb> now i will
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2013-03-15T18:33:29 < gxti> conclusive evidence that laurencism is contagious
2013-03-15T18:33:41 <+Steffanx> Welcome gxti
2013-03-15T18:33:57 < gxti> hello
2013-03-15T18:34:06 <+Steffanx> Enjoying almost weekend day?
2013-03-15T18:34:13 < gxti> indeed
2013-03-15T18:34:35 <+Steffanx> Great
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2013-03-15T18:56:48 < Laurenceb> so much fail
2013-03-15T18:56:52 < Laurenceb> wrong wifi drivers
2013-03-15T18:56:58 < Laurenceb> so no wifi, so no new drivers
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2013-03-15T19:05:08 <+Steffanx> You must have some VERY SPECIALLY UNIQUE pc ..
2013-03-15T19:12:06 < Laurenceb> dell latitude d820
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2013-03-15T19:20:12 < BJfreeman> do you have a second comuter you can use sneaker net on
2013-03-15T19:20:47 < BJfreeman> or can you connect via ethernet to the router
2013-03-15T19:21:25 < baird-n10> Get some SL/IP action happening
2013-03-15T19:22:17 < Laurenceb> ive got a second machine yes
2013-03-15T19:22:26 < Laurenceb> its on corporate lan
2013-03-15T19:22:38 < Laurenceb> i cant connect it to ethernet as its mac is blocked
2013-03-15T19:23:46 < Laurenceb> dont have an ethernet cable spare...
2013-03-15T19:24:11 < Laurenceb> eww unity...
2013-03-15T19:24:17 < Laurenceb> how can i turn off compiz?
2013-03-15T19:27:41 < Erlkoenig> killall -9 compiz
2013-03-15T19:28:38 < Laurenceb> astrobiologist currently getting epically trolled over in #highaltitude
2013-03-15T19:34:37 < Laurenceb> Erlkoenig: will that kill the desktop?
2013-03-15T19:35:01 < Erlkoenig> probably :D
2013-03-15T19:35:08 < Laurenceb> lolz
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2013-03-15T19:43:21 < Laurenceb> damn
2013-03-15T19:43:55 < Laurenceb>  "whilst using this wifi I promise to act in a manner that will not cause alarm, anxiety, harm of distress"
2013-03-15T19:44:02 < Laurenceb> doesnt look like I should be using it
2013-03-15T19:49:03 < mtbg> :>
2013-03-15T19:53:27 < qyx_> has anyone used gnuradio? i am just playing with it, i have sampled data on F1 at 172kHz
2013-03-15T19:53:48 < qyx_> but most of the modules in gnuradio need complex inputs which i don't have
2013-03-15T19:54:07 < qyx_> i require digital i/q demod, do i?
2013-03-15T19:55:58 < emeb> I've done a little bit with gnuradio using an RTL dongle. Those provide I/Q output though.
2013-03-15T19:56:23 < BrainDamage> there's stream combiners
2013-03-15T19:56:49 < BrainDamage> that take real I and Q separately, and create a complex output out of it
2013-03-15T19:56:53 < BrainDamage> just set Q to 0
2013-03-15T19:57:01 < emeb> or you can convert real data to I/Q using an analytic signal converter
2013-03-15T19:57:17 < BrainDamage> alternatively, many of blocks actually do let you change input type
2013-03-15T19:57:17 < qyx_> hm, doog idea
2013-03-15T19:57:18 < qyx_> good
2013-03-15T19:57:26 < BrainDamage> you have to enter the properties of the block
2013-03-15T19:58:02 < qyx_> psk demod doesnt have that
2013-03-15T19:58:20 < qyx_> i will try that Q=0
2013-03-15T19:59:04 < qyx_> but i assume that won't work if psk demod uses Q data
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2013-03-15T20:06:26 < mtbg> does the psk demod block have a parameter to specify the carrier frequency or it decodes at f=0 of input data?
2013-03-15T20:07:32 < Laurenceb> holy shit
2013-03-15T20:07:37 < Laurenceb> fixed ubutnut
2013-03-15T20:08:06 < qyx_> i cannot specify carrierfreq  here
2013-03-15T20:08:45 < mtbg> so mix your real data with a complex oscillator of the frequency you want to demodulate
2013-03-15T20:08:51 < mtbg> and you will have I/Q samples
2013-03-15T20:09:25  * Laurenceb struggles to give a shit
2013-03-15T20:09:32 < Laurenceb> i can probably help you
2013-03-15T20:09:45 < Laurenceb> if i care enough... and resist urge to troll you
2013-03-15T20:10:28 < qyx_> mtbg: yep, i am currently trying to do that
2013-03-15T20:10:34 < zyp> Laurenceb, why don't you grab this opportunity to be useful for once? :p
2013-03-15T20:12:13 < Laurenceb> ok what do you want to do?
2013-03-15T20:12:52 < Laurenceb> mtbg: costas loop is good for psk demod
2013-03-15T20:12:58 < Laurenceb> assuming binary psk
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2013-03-15T20:14:08 < mtbg> yes, it is
2013-03-15T20:16:32 < Laurenceb> but actually i havent used gnuradio
2013-03-15T20:16:35 < Laurenceb> so dont know
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2013-03-15T20:18:28 < mtbg> according to what qyx_ says, there is a block in gnuradio for psk demodulation which needs I/Q samples, so I suggested a way to convert his real data to I/Q by shifting the spectrum to center it on carrier freq
2013-03-15T20:20:15 < mtbg> that block may even be (and probably is) implemented internally as a costas pll
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2013-03-15T20:24:39 < qyx_> then on "constellation plot" i should probably see grouped points if it is psk?
2013-03-15T20:24:54 < qyx_> 2 groups if bpsk
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2013-03-15T20:26:48 < mtbg> yes
2013-03-15T20:27:06 < mtbg> but only when centered on carrier
2013-03-15T20:27:53 < qyx_> i have complex cos oscillator on carrier freq and i am feeding it to add block together with input signal
2013-03-15T20:28:04 < qyx_> or is there some dedicated mixer? i couldnt find one
2013-03-15T20:28:26 < mtbg> multiply, not add
2013-03-15T20:28:33 < qyx_> ok
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2013-03-15T21:05:19 < qyx_> it seems that there is no useful signal under 80kHz :S probably just noise from smps converters
2013-03-15T21:05:30 < qyx_> anyway mtbg thx
2013-03-15T21:09:11 < mtbg> you want to receive vlf?
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2013-03-15T21:12:53 < qyx_> yes, i was just playing a bit
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2013-03-15T21:14:13 < qyx_> i want to do new revision of blitzorting.org hardware instead their old one using avr
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2013-03-16T00:35:50 < Laurenceb_> lolz
2013-03-16T00:36:00 < Laurenceb_> theres #jihad but not #peado
2013-03-16T00:36:06 < Laurenceb_> wtf irc
2013-03-16T00:36:31 < Laurenceb_> or should i say... wtc
2013-03-16T00:37:26 <+Steffanx> Can't care lesss
2013-03-16T00:37:39 < Laurenceb_>  #donteventhinkaboutit
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2013-03-16T03:59:25 < emeb_mac> total absence of chattings
2013-03-16T04:01:09  * Erlkoenig chats
2013-03-16T04:01:42 < R2COM> chatchatchatchatchat!
2013-03-16T04:01:53 < R2COM> sounds like some really heavy machine gun
2013-03-16T04:04:21 < Erlkoenig> it spits chat programs
2013-03-16T04:07:06 < R2COM> how is germany Erlkoenig
2013-03-16T04:07:19 < Erlkoenig> snowy and cold
2013-03-16T04:07:36 < Erlkoenig> luckily i didn't leave my room since monday
2013-03-16T04:08:33 < R2COM> what if some hot girl would call you 50km away
2013-03-16T04:09:16 < Erlkoenig> hmm interesting thought
2013-03-16T04:09:39 < R2COM> you dont like cold huh?
2013-03-16T04:09:47 < Erlkoenig> if shee agreed in a threesome, maybe :-}
2013-03-16T04:09:55 < Erlkoenig> no, ima cold-resistand
2013-03-16T04:09:57 < Erlkoenig> *t
2013-03-16T04:10:00 < R2COM> threesome?
2013-03-16T04:10:04 < Erlkoenig> oohps, treesome
2013-03-16T04:10:08 < Erlkoenig> no
2013-03-16T04:10:08 < Erlkoenig> argh
2013-03-16T04:10:28 < R2COM> so you can withstand cold?
2013-03-16T04:10:37 < Erlkoenig> yup
2013-03-16T04:10:47 < R2COM> how come you felt so cold in 1942
2013-03-16T04:11:02 < Erlkoenig> because they hadn't me with them
2013-03-16T04:11:12 < R2COM> I mean, my grandpa said "they were afraid of cold...ah... "
2013-03-16T04:11:42 < Erlkoenig> afraid? i'd rather say the underestimated coldness
2013-03-16T04:12:12 < R2COM> heh yea
2013-03-16T04:12:18 < R2COM> and well, not only coldness
2013-03-16T04:14:03 < Erlkoenig> maybe also mud
2013-03-16T04:14:16 < Erlkoenig> and supply scarceness
2013-03-16T04:15:09 < R2COM> and not being able to win
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2013-03-16T04:16:09 < Erlkoenig> and their insanity
2013-03-16T04:16:22 < emeb_mac> blame it on potatoes
2013-03-16T04:21:19 < Erlkoenig> hm potatoes... it's funny how they are now an integral part of european food while they wheren't known here until the 16th century
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2013-03-16T04:35:15 < emeb_mac> Thank the Peruvians and the Spanish. But the Peruvians don't thank the Spanish.
2013-03-16T04:36:04 < R2COM> uh
2013-03-16T04:36:05 < R2COM> huh
2013-03-16T04:40:38 < R2COM> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJCTV0FcCEo
2013-03-16T04:40:42 < R2COM> jump to 0:43
2013-03-16T04:40:50 < R2COM> what you can do with cat died on a road
2013-03-16T04:41:07 < Erlkoenig> old
2013-03-16T04:41:13 < R2COM> you saw it?
2013-03-16T04:41:17 < Erlkoenig> ages ago
2013-03-16T04:41:20 < R2COM> oh
2013-03-16T04:41:36 < Erlkoenig> it was popular for like a week
2013-03-16T04:41:40 < R2COM> heh
2013-03-16T04:43:14 < R2COM> so what do you like to do Erlkoenig
2013-03-16T04:43:24 < Erlkoenig> hmm programming?
2013-03-16T04:43:28 < R2COM> what else
2013-03-16T04:44:00 < Erlkoenig> computer science, maths, electronics
2013-03-16T04:44:54 < R2COM> nice, german.
2013-03-16T04:45:09 < Erlkoenig> wat... are you flirting with me?
2013-03-16T04:45:44 < R2COM> what about some other stuff, mechanical or dynamical stuff
2013-03-16T04:46:01 < Erlkoenig> "dynamical"? i have no idea about mechanics
2013-03-16T04:46:10 < R2COM> i mean come on, your people did fau, jet engines
2013-03-16T04:46:16 < R2COM> that was some good shit
2013-03-16T04:46:56 < Erlkoenig> fau?
2013-03-16T04:47:03 < Erlkoenig> yeah so what?
2013-03-16T04:47:23 < R2COM> was just wondering how many people still into all that kind of stuff
2013-03-16T04:47:29 < R2COM> there
2013-03-16T04:47:35 < Erlkoenig> quite a lot, just not me
2013-03-16T04:47:43 < GargantuaSauce> and ethnic cleansing
2013-03-16T04:47:45 < GargantuaSauce> can't forget that part
2013-03-16T04:47:52 < Erlkoenig> less than americans, probably
2013-03-16T04:47:57 < R2COM> hmmm
2013-03-16T04:48:47 < R2COM> but more than france or england
2013-03-16T04:48:47 < R2COM> ?
2013-03-16T04:49:06 < Erlkoenig> i'd doubt it
2013-03-16T04:49:11 < R2COM> hmmm
2013-03-16T04:49:49 < R2COM> maybe.... no..
2013-03-16T04:50:59 < R2COM> reinmetall l44 is a good gun :D
2013-03-16T04:51:57 < R2COM> ...but... 2A46 is my favourite one anyway :D
2013-03-16T04:52:38 < Erlkoenig> see, who cares more about weaponry now
2013-03-16T04:52:58 < R2COM> who?
2013-03-16T04:53:24 < R2COM> :D
2013-03-16T04:54:54 < Erlkoenig> you :P
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2013-03-16T05:01:04 < mtbg> btw
2013-03-16T05:01:25 < mtbg> any experiences in connecting sdram via a fpga/cpld to fsmc?
2013-03-16T05:01:46 < Erlkoenig> get a mikrocontroller with SDRAM interface.
2013-03-16T05:02:45 < mtbg> hard to find something else which has a camera sensor interface
2013-03-16T05:03:37 < mtbg> stm32f407 is ok and not so overkill compared to most microcontrollers with both camera and memory interface
2013-03-16T05:04:43 < Erlkoenig> using an FPGA just for SDRAM interface instead of a bigger controller is... ultra overkill
2013-03-16T05:04:50 < Erlkoenig> (and ultra expensive, probably)
2013-03-16T05:04:59 < mtbg> no :>
2013-03-16T05:05:07 < mtbg> well
2013-03-16T05:05:19 < mtbg> consider that 4MB of SRAM costed 40 euros
2013-03-16T05:05:31 < mtbg> and it was the cheapest SRAM in the whole mouser.com
2013-03-16T05:05:37 < mtbg> of such capacity
2013-03-16T05:05:42 < R2COM> maybe not expencive but more like impractical
2013-03-16T05:05:54 < mtbg> 64MB of sdram is 2 euros
2013-03-16T05:05:54 < R2COM> s6 are not expencive
2013-03-16T05:06:11 < mtbg> and machxo2 fpga is 3 euros
2013-03-16T05:06:30 < Erlkoenig> it won't fit on a small fpga...
2013-03-16T05:06:41 < R2COM> controllers dont take lots of logic
2013-03-16T05:06:51 < R2COM> I remember i did one for ddr sdram
2013-03-16T05:08:03 < R2COM> and s6 has in fact internal hard controller
2013-03-16T05:08:34 < mtbg> I saw SDRAM interface description and timing diagrams
2013-03-16T05:08:50 < mtbg> doesn't look like it requires a lot to translate to FSMC
2013-03-16T05:08:52 < R2COM> so?
2013-03-16T05:09:02 < mtbg> FSMC has an NWAIT line
2013-03-16T05:09:05 < R2COM> ok
2013-03-16T05:09:19 < mtbg> which can be used to stop the core and peripherals from accessing the memory
2013-03-16T05:09:37 < mtbg> so 'transparent' refreshing is also possible
2013-03-16T05:10:12 < mtbg> what do you mean by 's6'?
2013-03-16T05:10:17 < R2COM> spartan 6
2013-03-16T05:10:19 < Erlkoenig> hm, why does the F4 have a camera interface but not a sdram interface...
2013-03-16T05:12:09 < mtbg> PSRAMs are in fact dynamic RAM with built-in refresh logic, simillar to what I would like to accomplish
2013-03-16T05:12:27 < mtbg> unfortunately these are not so common
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2013-03-16T05:18:05 < zyp> Erlkoenig, F4x9 has sdram interface
2013-03-16T05:18:39 < mtbg> and dcmi?
2013-03-16T05:18:45 < zyp> sure
2013-03-16T05:18:50 < Erlkoenig> hm neat
2013-03-16T05:19:44 < mtbg> non-stocked in mouser
2013-03-16T05:19:54 < mtbg> too new probably
2013-03-16T05:19:55 < R2COM> i think thats what I saw in datasheet, its just didnt have need for that
2013-03-16T05:21:15 < mtbg> btw
2013-03-16T05:22:29 < mtbg> talking about memories, is it _that_ hard to properly route DDR3 signals?
2013-03-16T05:23:14 < zyp> how hard is «_that_» hard?
2013-03-16T05:23:56 < R2COM> i never dealed with ddr3, but if i'll have to, read up its manual and match impedance properly dont thinks its "that" hard at all
2013-03-16T05:24:28 < dongs> im sure you can do it in freeware eagle
2013-03-16T05:24:30 < dongs> on 2 layers
2013-03-16T05:24:37 < R2COM> i think there are even .brd files for some fpga board designs having ddr3 on them, you can just reverse engineer them...
2013-03-16T05:24:39 < dongs> cuz anything can be done in eagle
2013-03-16T05:25:08 <+dekar_> I guess 2 layers gets tricky once you have to fan out that BGA footprint :P
2013-03-16T05:26:08 < R2COM> sure, but it would be long to do length adjustments (about eagle not sure, but...about Kicad, there is one NASTY thing, when you route some trace for example, and then you delete some segment of it, and add another segment, and then click on the whole trace to know its length...guess what? it gives you length of trace starting from segment of which you newle added but not whole trace! which I consider totally improper and inconvenient!
2013-03-16T05:26:45 < mtbg> can KiCAD even make serpentines for length matching?
2013-03-16T05:26:51 < R2COM> no.
2013-03-16T05:27:00 < mtbg> well then :>
2013-03-16T05:27:05 < R2COM> read up problem I descrribed above ^
2013-03-16T05:27:20 < R2COM> Kicad is hard to do trace length matching even manually
2013-03-16T05:28:17 < R2COM> there is a way: when you want to adjust trace length, do NOT delete some segment! otherwise Kicad will think that any other continuation of trace is NEW trace! just right click and select "Corner" and add corner, then another one, and two more around, that way you can manually do serpentine
2013-03-16T05:28:27 < mtbg> but, do I need a SI analysis capable software to route DDR3 properly?
2013-03-16T05:28:56 < R2COM> I dont think you *need* software, just read up about ddr3, and if you dont have money you can still do it manually.
2013-03-16T05:31:10 < R2COM> I remember long time ago I even used to create scripts for calculation of impedance variation for variation of some board characteristics, that was done in terms of RF terminology, to match something, i.e. once you know the root of the problem and how things work physically, you do not need that sophisticated software
2013-03-16T05:31:33 < R2COM> only time when you need it is to boost time, but if you dont have money then... you dont have option anyhow.
2013-03-16T05:31:34 < mtbg> good then
2013-03-16T05:31:37 < mtbg> well
2013-03-16T05:32:33 < mtbg> there are some pretty nice SoCs from freescale which have DDR3 memory interface, namely iMX6
2013-03-16T05:34:44 < mtbg> I was wondering if one is able to design a pcb using them without something like Orcad or PADS
2013-03-16T05:36:17 < R2COM> yes.
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2013-03-16T06:40:10 < Erlkoenig> whats the difference of an Exception (as in the ARM Core) and an Interrupt?
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2013-03-16T07:09:27 < Erlkoenig> http://9gag.com/gag/6814532  i can relate
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2013-03-16T09:02:02 < baird>   \__ has an account on 9gag, ha haa.
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2013-03-16T10:34:49 < dongs> https://youtube.com/watch?v=9BLqC8CGKy0 what the actual fuck
2013-03-16T10:35:13 < R2COM> heh
2013-03-16T10:35:22 < R2COM> how are things going
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2013-03-16T11:04:47 < dongs> http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~geobrown/book.pdf opensauce stm32 book
2013-03-16T11:13:09 < baird> RC HDD: -- MaKeR CuLtUrE!
2013-03-16T11:16:27 < R2COM> nice
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2013-03-16T12:28:23 < baird> Famous Outback Australian Landmark: http://i.imgur.com/nFtjgLD.jpg
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2013-03-16T13:25:38 < Laurenceb_> oh dear
2013-03-16T13:25:39 < Laurenceb_> http://aspergersissues.tumblr.com/post/29137298165/web-trolls-put-picture-of-downs-girl-on-facebook-with
2013-03-16T13:27:37 < Laurenceb_> at least she is famous
2013-03-16T13:28:11 <+Steffanx> Now Laurenceb_ is going to post a similar picture with his photo on the web... just to get famous
2013-03-16T13:28:27 < Laurenceb_> trolltastic
2013-03-16T13:30:59 < dongs> You know how when you chew/eat mint gum/candy your mouth feels cold/fresh right
2013-03-16T13:31:02 < dongs> well wifecop bought some mint-flavored body soap and i put that shit on my balls
2013-03-16T13:31:03 < dongs> was pretty cool, literally.
2013-03-16T13:31:49 <+Steffanx> Hmm
2013-03-16T13:32:09 <+Steffanx> Maybe she wanted to tell you it doesn't smell very well down there..
2013-03-16T13:32:29 < Laurenceb_> too much information
2013-03-16T13:32:30 < dongs> thats what you think.
2013-03-16T13:32:47 < Laurenceb_> so wait
2013-03-16T13:32:58 < Laurenceb_> me posting that link reminded you of your wife?
2013-03-16T13:33:01 < dongs> ohh new dicktrace
2013-03-16T13:33:08 < dongs> no i ddidnt click your shit
2013-03-16T13:33:53  * Steffanx imagines dongs wifecop as a real japanese "role playing" wifecop
2013-03-16T13:34:02 <+Steffanx> No thanks
2013-03-16T13:34:42 < Laurenceb_> i think me mistyped "wifecock"
2013-03-16T13:34:45 < Laurenceb_> *he
2013-03-16T13:34:48 <+Steffanx> :D
2013-03-16T13:35:44 <+Steffanx> Can't you feel the love, dongs ?
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2013-03-16T14:13:03 < Laurenceb_> this is odd
2013-03-16T14:13:16 < Laurenceb_> some guys are charging for limited time firmware upgrades
2013-03-16T14:13:25 < Laurenceb_> how can you have a limited time firmware upgrade
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2013-03-16T14:13:33 < Laurenceb_> uses the RTC to nuke itself?
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2013-03-16T14:14:43 < Laurenceb_> sounds like something that could be hacked
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2013-03-16T14:17:14 < Laurenceb_> maybe it i set the RTC backwards before reflashing...
2013-03-16T14:17:40 < Laurenceb_> the license is between set dates, not time after install
2013-03-16T14:17:49 < Laurenceb_> s/it/if
2013-03-16T14:19:05 < dongs> ^ lunix fgt
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2013-03-16T14:20:26 < Laurenceb_> its £10K/year
2013-03-16T14:31:49 < baird> dongs: probably contains ethanol. Reminds me of a teenage experiment with Listerine..
2013-03-16T14:32:42 <+Steffanx> I would say menthol ..
2013-03-16T14:32:59 < dongs> it surely felt weird
2013-03-16T14:33:03 < dongs> oddly, only on teh balls.
2013-03-16T14:33:04 <+Steffanx> Haha
2013-03-16T14:33:15 < dongs> the rest of me soaped with that shit was ok.
2013-03-16T14:33:31 <+Steffanx> You should give your wife some menthol-ish lipstick.. probably gives you a similar feeling
2013-03-16T14:35:42 <+Steffanx> *sensation
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2013-03-16T15:08:28 < Laurenceb_> lolwat
2013-03-16T15:08:53  * Laurenceb_ is reading a german thesis
2013-03-16T15:10:30 < Laurenceb_> "11 “Truly great friends are hard to find, difficult to leave, and impossible to forget.” Unknown ACKNOWLEDGMENTS The time has come to put an end to a long and winding journey. I would never have done this journey without a lot of persons and hopefully I will give full credit to you all. I have been here for so long
2013-03-16T15:10:30 < Laurenceb_> that I almost consider the department to be my second home, and thereby regard all employees and colleagues, former and present, as part of my second family."
2013-03-16T15:10:35 < Laurenceb_> not sure if troll
2013-03-16T15:10:52 < Laurenceb_> maybe this is normal is germany
2013-03-16T15:10:55 < Laurenceb_> *in
2013-03-16T15:13:48 < BrainDamage> you're so used to trolling, pissing contests and idiots that you cannot imagine someone finding good friends and an healthy work environment somewhere?
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2013-03-16T15:31:08 < baird> "The Thing"(1982) on TV. \o/
2013-03-16T15:39:32 <+Steffanx> baird feels younger again
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2013-03-16T16:00:01 < baird> 14yo me + step-cousin who owned a video store -> me watching all the <R>-rated horror movies I could wish for. :D
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2013-03-16T16:09:12 < BrainDamage> http://imgur.com/a/EcCsV
2013-03-16T16:09:37 < BrainDamage> ( Laurenceb_ - grade link )
2013-03-16T16:12:59 < Laurenceb_> troll/0
2013-03-16T16:18:19 < baird> Dividing by zero? Stop that.
2013-03-16T16:23:36 < dongs>  what is this lamebook crap
2013-03-16T16:23:40 < dongs> if you gonna paste funny shit, paste names
2013-03-16T16:24:33 <+Steffanx> Sure dongs. That's what you also did
2013-03-16T16:24:46 <+Steffanx> *not*
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2013-03-16T17:49:46 < dongs> attn baird hamfag shit http://ko4bb.com/
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2013-03-16T18:31:17 < Laurenceb_> http://ko4bb.com/ham_radio/10GHz_transverters/
2013-03-16T18:31:20 < Laurenceb_> lolz
2013-03-16T18:32:39 < BrainDamage> why lol? altough most of it are premade modules stringed together
2013-03-16T18:33:00 < BrainDamage> afterall morse is just am
2013-03-16T18:34:11 < Laurenceb_> looks so messy
2013-03-16T18:34:14 < Laurenceb_> "8051 cross assembler for MS-DOS, zipped archive (binary only)"
2013-03-16T18:34:19 < Laurenceb_> very useful /jk
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2013-03-16T18:46:21 < Laurenceb_> http://ko4bb.com/Timing/GPSMonitor/ thats interesting
2013-03-16T18:46:31 < Laurenceb_> silabs 8051 boards
2013-03-16T18:47:42 < Laurenceb_> probably better than AVR :P
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2013-03-16T18:50:07 < mtbg> hi
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2013-03-16T19:18:48 < Laurenceb_> http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c114612/images/2009/victor-stenger-bus.jpg
2013-03-16T19:23:13 < mtbg> good point
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2013-03-16T19:25:14 < Tectu> dongs, ping
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2013-03-16T19:37:55 <+Steffanx> He probably is chained to his bed by wifecop Tectu
2013-03-16T19:39:26 < Tectu> probably
2013-03-16T19:49:56 < Tectu> so who of you has a RIM smartphone?
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2013-03-16T19:55:36 < zyp> I played with some prototype once, if that counts
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2013-03-16T19:59:16 < Tectu> long time ago?
2013-03-16T19:59:50 < zyp> last year
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2013-03-16T20:03:19 < zyp> some Z10 prototype I guess
2013-03-16T20:27:30 < Erlkoenig> does the windows software "ST-Link utility" support ELF binaries?
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2013-03-16T20:57:33 <+Steffanx> hmpf, trying to do some python stuff, but python is pretty complicated when you want to do all "the python way". ( and i shouldn't start with numpy perhaps )
2013-03-16T20:57:40 < Laurenceb_> this is interesting
2013-03-16T20:57:50 < Laurenceb_> you can break out FSMC on f4discovery
2013-03-16T20:57:58 < Laurenceb_> with a few trace cuts
2013-03-16T20:58:07 < Laurenceb_> so it could run uclinux
2013-03-16T21:02:41 < Laurenceb_> "rodrigues.luiz  Posts : 3	I successfully booted the kernel on the STMF417 with only the internal SRAM and FLASH. The kernel was about 500K and was running directly from the flash memory."
2013-03-16T21:02:45 < Laurenceb_> wtf..
2013-03-16T21:04:20 <+Steffanx> Anyone here would know a fancy python way of removing colums from an (numpy) array where the rows of that column is 0?
2013-03-16T21:04:30 < Laurenceb_> no :P
2013-03-16T21:05:34 < mtbg> how about userspace when running uclinux?
2013-03-16T21:06:08 < Laurenceb_> https://my.st.com/public/STe2ecommunities/mcu/Lists/cortex_mx_stm32/flat.aspx?RootFolder=%2Fpublic%2FSTe2ecommunities%2Fmcu%2FLists%2Fcortex_mx_stm32%2FuClinux%20on%20STM32&currentviews=25919
2013-03-16T21:06:30 < Laurenceb_> mtbg: tbh I dont understand how it works
2013-03-16T21:06:34 < Laurenceb_> without an MMU
2013-03-16T21:06:44 < Erlkoenig> it just works™
2013-03-16T21:07:28 < Laurenceb_> i guess you have fixed stack size and malloc uses a global pool?
2013-03-16T21:07:47 < Laurenceb_> lol i want to try this now
2013-03-16T21:08:04 < mtbg> well
2013-03-16T21:08:05 < Laurenceb_> i could have uclinux on one of my little F4 USB dongles
2013-03-16T21:08:19 < mtbg> mmap() wont work
2013-03-16T21:08:54 < mtbg> and thus the applications that use it
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2013-03-16T21:12:50  * jpa- saw the comet
2013-03-16T21:13:18 < mtbg> what comet?
2013-03-16T21:13:25 < jpa-> the one in the sky
2013-03-16T21:13:42 < Laurenceb_> too cloudy herer
2013-03-16T21:14:46 < Laurenceb_> ill have to take a look with binoculars if it clears
2013-03-16T21:14:47 < mtbg> hmm, missed it
2013-03-16T21:14:55 < mtbg> it was supposed to have 3 mag, though
2013-03-16T21:15:20 < mtbg> iridum flares are much brighter
2013-03-16T21:15:28 < jpa-> wasn't visible with plain eye here.. only with binoculars
2013-03-16T21:18:48 < ossifrage> on stm32s, other then the wfi instruction is there another way to wait on a interrupt?
2013-03-16T21:19:37 < mtbg> there is
2013-03-16T21:19:46 < mtbg> but what would you need it for?
2013-03-16T21:20:05 < mtbg> wfi lets you stop the core and save energy
2013-03-16T21:22:54 < jpa-> ossifrage: busyloop? :)
2013-03-16T21:23:09 < ossifrage> I'm still getting up to speed on arm cores, do you need to do special stuff to recover from a wfi?
2013-03-16T21:23:41 < zyp> no
2013-03-16T21:24:26 < zyp> you also have the SLEEPONEXIT flag that would put the core back in sleep after processing interrupts
2013-03-16T21:25:00 < zyp> which may be more useful than just wfi
2013-03-16T21:25:24 < ossifrage> now that I think about it, using wfi might be a bit of a race in my app
2013-03-16T21:26:16 < ossifrage> because if an interrupt happens after checking for work but before the wfi, I'll miss work until the next interrupt
2013-03-16T21:27:00 < zyp> if you have some sort of scheduler that tracks readyness state of threads you would perform the scheduling in pendsv handler, and if no threads are ready to run, you set the SLEEPONEXIT flag so it goes to sleep instead of running any threads
2013-03-16T21:28:01 < Laurenceb_> cant it just call the scheduler and do WFI from the scheduler?
2013-03-16T21:28:18 < zyp> you can't do wfi in handler mode
2013-03-16T21:29:13 < Laurenceb_> whats hander mode?
2013-03-16T21:29:40 < Laurenceb_> oh i see
2013-03-16T21:31:13 < zyp> handler mode is when it's handling interrupts
2013-03-16T21:31:48 < Laurenceb_> i see
2013-03-16T21:31:58 < Laurenceb_> arm documentation calls them "exceptions"
2013-03-16T21:32:07 < Laurenceb_> are all interrupts the same as exceptions?
2013-03-16T21:32:19 < Laurenceb_> or are the exceptions the ones with -ive priority
2013-03-16T21:33:04 < Laurenceb_> so bare metal will use the main stack?
2013-03-16T21:38:09 < zyp> all handlers will use main stack
2013-03-16T21:39:10 < zyp> ARM is using «exceptions» as a term for all the interrupts
2013-03-16T21:42:32 < Erlkoenig> ossifrage: you shouldn't check the interrupt flags in a main loop, but set up ISR functions that are automatically called by hardware when an interrupt occurs
2013-03-16T21:43:26 < ossifrage> I'm checking the results of things an interrupt does like putting bytes in a buffer, not interrupt flags
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2013-03-16T21:46:12 < Erlkoenig> ossifrage: yeah thats basically the same thing
2013-03-16T21:46:19 < Erlkoenig> ossifrage: by using ISR functions you can't miss an interrupt
2013-03-16T21:47:52 < ossifrage> It isn't so much an issue of missing a interrupt, it would just be that the main loop might be delayed from handling work due to a race on wfi
2013-03-16T21:48:42 < Erlkoenig> yeah but you might loose the data from a previous interrupt
2013-03-16T21:49:01 < Erlkoenig> e.g. if you use an UART interrupt or something, the last received byte will be overwritten by the next one
2013-03-16T21:50:09 < ossifrage> We are talking about 2 different things here. I was asking about calling wfi in the my main loop to so it spins a bit less
2013-03-16T21:50:32 < Erlkoenig> but wait no... most interrupts will instantly re-occur if you don't manually clear them, so wfi will instantly return if you didn't deal with the interrupt
2013-03-16T21:50:52 < Erlkoenig> ... yeah wfi is perfectly legitimate there
2013-03-16T21:51:09 < Erlkoenig> but querying interrupt flags/data from the mainloop instead of using ISR functions is... unusual
2013-03-16T21:51:33 < ossifrage> in my case the race would be that I checked to see if the uart had a full line of data to process, then a interrupt put the final byte in the buffer, then I called wfi
2013-03-16T21:51:33 < mtbg> is it?
2013-03-16T21:52:02 < Erlkoenig> luckily wfi would instantly return
2013-03-16T21:52:03 < ossifrage> so I'd end up delaying processing that line until the next interrupt happened
2013-03-16T21:52:20 < Erlkoenig> because the UART will re-trigger the interrupt until you clear the flag in the UART register
2013-03-16T21:52:20 < zyp> Erlkoenig, you are mistaken/wrong
2013-03-16T21:52:26 < Erlkoenig> :(
2013-03-16T21:53:04 < ossifrage> I guess it doesn't really matter considering how often DMA interupts are occuring, the wfi isn't going to save much
2013-03-16T21:53:24 < zyp> ossifrage is talking about code like if(!new_data_available()) { wfi(); }
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2013-03-16T21:54:08 < zyp> if then the interrupt is triggered right after new_data_available() is called, but before wfi is called, the ISR will then run, and after the ISR have been executed, it will call wfi, even though new data now is available
2013-03-16T21:54:43 < Erlkoenig> i think he has no ISR
2013-03-16T21:54:50 < mtbg> I can see one ugly way to get rid of the race condition
2013-03-16T21:54:53 < Erlkoenig> and hasn't enabled the interrupt in the NVIC
2013-03-16T21:55:04 < ossifrage> I have about 30 ISRs running
2013-03-16T21:55:05 < Erlkoenig> mtbg: thanks to STM32, there is no race condition
2013-03-16T21:55:14 < zyp> Erlkoenig, that's where you are mistaken.
2013-03-16T21:55:16 < Erlkoenig> oh, then i git you wrong
2013-03-16T21:55:59 < Erlkoenig> so new_data_available refers to data produced by the ISR, not the UART hardware?
2013-03-16T21:56:18 < zyp> of course
2013-03-16T21:56:22 < mtbg> namely running the critical code from RAM and modyfing the instruction to be either wfi or nop - pretty ugly though
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2013-03-16T21:57:14 < zyp> mtbg, that's dumb. :p
2013-03-16T21:57:21 < mtbg> yep
2013-03-16T21:58:02 < Erlkoenig> the answer is of course to not do anything in the mainloop ;-)
2013-03-16T21:58:03  * Erlkoenig ducks
2013-03-16T21:59:05 < zyp> a saner solution would be adding a service call to check data availability
2013-03-16T22:00:25 < zyp> then your function would be calling svc, triggering the svc handler, which can check data availability without being interrupted, and if no new data is available it can set SLEEPONEXIT
2013-03-16T22:00:43 < zyp> and then when the data becomes available the other handler can clear SLEEPONEXIT
2013-03-16T22:01:16 < ossifrage> sleeponexit is per ISR?
2013-03-16T22:01:20 < Erlkoenig> so instead of wfi one would do SVCall ?
2013-03-16T22:01:32 < zyp> if the other IRQ is set while the svc handler is being executed it will be tail-chained and thus processed before going to sleep
2013-03-16T22:01:35 < zyp> yep
2013-03-16T22:01:57 < Erlkoenig> neat idea
2013-03-16T22:02:41 < zyp> would be even nicer when combined with a full thread scheduler
2013-03-16T22:04:58 < ossifrage> This whole topic came up because I was annoyed that the event loop counter was a big number and I wanted to slow things down a bit
2013-03-16T22:05:00 < Erlkoenig> zyp: made a nice C++ API for CAN,NVIC,RCC(partial) wanna have for laks ;)
2013-03-16T22:06:23 < zyp> I can look at it later
2013-03-16T22:06:53 < Erlkoenig> yo
2013-03-16T22:07:31 < Erlkoenig> e.g.:   STM32::CAN1.intTransmit ().enable ();       is everything needed to enable the transmit interrupt, including the NVIC stuff
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2013-03-16T22:09:03 < Erlkoenig> and e.g.   STM32::CAN1.clock().frequency ()  for CAN's clock freq (for baud calculation)
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2013-03-16T23:35:42 < mervaka> lol
2013-03-16T23:35:57 < mervaka> wondering why my mixer has a skewed frequency response
2013-03-16T23:36:11 < mervaka> i enabled the de-emphasis filters, in hardware..
2013-03-16T23:36:13 < mervaka> :(
2013-03-16T23:36:27 < mervaka> no quick code changes for me
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2013-03-17T01:57:59 < dongs> Tectu: pong
2013-03-17T02:01:56 < Tectu> dongs, how exactly is it going with the BMPs?
2013-03-17T02:02:14 < Tectu> dongs, could you do any further progress?
2013-03-17T02:03:13 < dongs> progress: parts are in a bag.
2013-03-17T02:03:18 < dongs> pcbs are next to them
2013-03-17T02:03:25 < dongs> so I think I'm doing pretty good.
2013-03-17T02:03:27 < dongs> with progress.
2013-03-17T02:03:32 < Tectu> sounds good
2013-03-17T02:03:39 < dongs> i need to locate the stencils
2013-03-17T02:05:25 < Tectu> sure
2013-03-17T02:05:33 < Tectu> put them nex to the bag and the pcbs after you found'em
2013-03-17T02:08:49 < dongs> found htem.
2013-03-17T02:08:56 < dongs> im gonna go one step further and put pcbs and stencil in the parts bag
2013-03-17T02:08:58 < dongs> so they stay in one place.
2013-03-17T02:09:00 < Tectu> lovely!
2013-03-17T02:09:16 < Tectu> that's a nice idea, you're on fire!
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2013-03-17T02:47:32 < gxti> swoon
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2013-03-17T06:44:45 < GargantuaSauce> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OELxDGtESMI
2013-03-17T06:45:50 < Erlkoenig> oO
2013-03-17T06:46:49 < GargantuaSauce> the rolling shutter sure does interesting things with IR flares
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2013-03-17T07:13:28 < ossifrage> anybody using st-util to program an STM32Fx?
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2013-03-17T07:14:14 < ossifrage> lately I've been getting fails during flash verification
2013-03-17T07:14:15 < zyp> I used to
2013-03-17T07:14:31 < ossifrage> but it goes way if I power cycle the target
2013-03-17T07:14:33 < zyp> but I can't say anything about lately
2013-03-17T07:14:55 < ossifrage> I'm wondering if it isn't putting the chip in a happy state before trying to flash
2013-03-17T07:15:47 < zyp> quite possibly, I've heard talk about that
2013-03-17T07:15:56 < zyp> are you using DMA
2013-03-17T07:15:57 < zyp> ?
2013-03-17T07:16:18 < ossifrage> ah, that is the big change I started using DMAs
2013-03-17T07:17:09 < ossifrage> when I ctrl-c, things like the ADC keep running?
2013-03-17T07:17:42 < zyp> yes, only the cpu core is halted
2013-03-17T07:18:02 < ossifrage> is there an easy way from gdb to reset things before flashing?
2013-03-17T07:18:16 < zyp> (and select peripherals as per DBGMCU settings, but that's sort of irrelevant)
2013-03-17T07:18:24 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-17T07:18:54 < ossifrage> I guess I could start turning clocks off to various functional units
2013-03-17T07:19:04 < zyp> ideally st-util should do a system reset as part of the flashing procedure
2013-03-17T07:19:42 < zyp> there has been talk about it before, but apparently nobody has got it working yet
2013-03-17T07:20:03 < zyp> I hear openocd has become usable now, so I think a fair share of users moved there
2013-03-17T07:20:19 < ossifrage> I have a blackmagic, but I gave up on it and went back to using a stm32f4 to program the stm32f1
2013-03-17T07:20:20 < zyp> and then other users like me got other debug interfaces and stopped caring about st-util
2013-03-17T07:20:26 < zyp> oh, really?
2013-03-17T07:20:49 < zyp> well, I'm more inclined to help you get the blackmagic going then :p
2013-03-17T07:21:09 < zyp> what sort of problems do you have with it?
2013-03-17T07:21:56 < ossifrage> It was a while ago, I'd need to look at my logs
2013-03-17T07:23:38 < ossifrage> it was related to chip initialization I think and SWDIO
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2013-03-17T07:24:42 < emeb_mac> ossifrage: I had DMA problems w/ st-util also.
2013-03-17T07:24:57 < emeb_mac> that's why I use BMP now.:)
2013-03-17T07:28:01 < ossifrage> ah, something with the initialization of the blackmagic was preventing me from taking interrupts on the F1 board
2013-03-17T07:28:06 < zyp> emeb_mac, looks like bmp git repo got a hardware/contrib/ directory today
2013-03-17T07:28:17 < zyp> I suggest you add yours and submit a pull request
2013-03-17T07:28:36 < emeb_mac> zyp: good idea
2013-03-17T07:29:25 < zyp> ossifrage, what kind of interrupts? did you do your own reset handler?
2013-03-17T07:29:36 < zyp> sorry, not reset, I mean hardfault
2013-03-17T07:29:38 < zyp> :)
2013-03-17T07:30:03 < ossifrage> I'd say 'run', the program would run but it would never take any interrupts
2013-03-17T07:30:21 < emeb_mac> dafuq?
2013-03-17T07:30:26 < ossifrage> using the stm32f4discovery board it would work just fine
2013-03-17T07:30:35 < zyp> that sounds weird
2013-03-17T07:31:15 < ossifrage> it wasn't one of the chips that had been tested and it may have been one of those lovely errata things, but it wasn't worth the pain
2013-03-17T07:31:16 < zyp> I have not seen anything like that
2013-03-17T07:31:21 < emeb_mac> never ran into that and I've used both bmp and stlink for coding interrupts on an F4
2013-03-17T07:32:06 < ossifrage> I'm just using the f4disco as a jtag interface to talk to a f1
2013-03-17T07:33:01 < zyp> then you might as well get the bmp working again :)
2013-03-17T07:33:24 < emeb_mac> yeah. I've used various fx-discos to program various stm32fx parts, as well as a BMP and my BMP2. All worked fine with interrupts.
2013-03-17T07:34:58 < ossifrage> Do you have a current firmware for the BMP?
2013-03-17T07:35:21 < zyp> yes
2013-03-17T07:35:24 < zyp> want the bin?
2013-03-17T07:35:37 < ossifrage> yeah, especially if it is tested :-)
2013-03-17T07:36:12 < ossifrage> debugging the debugger feels far to much like work
2013-03-17T07:36:26 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/UzFrs/blackmagic.bin
2013-03-17T07:36:46 < zyp> it's a couple of weeks old
2013-03-17T07:37:43 < zyp> but there doesn't seem to be any firmware changes since, so you're not missing out on anything
2013-03-17T07:38:56 < zyp> and IMO, being able to debug the debugger is way better than being stuck with working around silly issues you don't have access to fix
2013-03-17T07:41:10 < ossifrage> joy bmp_upgrade segfaults :-)
2013-03-17T07:41:41 < ossifrage> in usb_get_string_simple
2013-03-17T07:42:49 < zyp> which platform?
2013-03-17T07:43:33 < zyp> oh, there is a bmp_upgrade
2013-03-17T07:43:40 < zyp> don't use that
2013-03-17T07:43:51 < zyp> use scripts/stm32_mem.py
2013-03-17T07:43:57 < zyp> call it with the bin file as an argument
2013-03-17T07:44:24 < zyp> (requires pyusb, so get that first if you don't have it)
2013-03-17T07:45:04 < ossifrage> It has been a while since I tried using the black magic, that was the first thing my grep found, so I tried it :-)
2013-03-17T07:45:35 < zyp> it might be fine, I have never used it :)
2013-03-17T07:45:55 < zyp> I've always used the python scripts
2013-03-17T07:46:18 < ossifrage> ah, that did it
2013-03-17T07:48:40 < ossifrage> now I have to get up the courage to disconnect my cable hack job so I can use 10pin to 20pin adaptor board
2013-03-17T07:50:49 < ossifrage> I can't tell you how bad this bench supply I have smells even after using it for a month, when it heats up it smells really horrible
2013-03-17T07:51:10 < zyp> time to open it up and clean it out perhaps?
2013-03-17T07:51:32 < ossifrage> I tried baking the stink off it, that didn't help
2013-03-17T07:52:12 < ossifrage> a cross between old jock straps and medical waste....
2013-03-17T07:52:44 < baird> Delicious biphenols...
2013-03-17T07:52:59 < ossifrage> tetra-ethyl-badshit...
2013-03-17T07:53:22 < baird> needs more mercury vapour..
2013-03-17T07:55:00 < ossifrage> I think I might take it out to the garage an use it to charge a large SLA battery, that should bake out the stink
2013-03-17T07:55:13 < baird> lifestyle blogging: I'm  planning a camping trip that'll include a 2-day say in a forest where a serial killer dumped over 8 bodies. "Why yes, I have zero belief in the supernatural.." :)
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2013-03-17T07:56:48 < ossifrage> a friend of a friend's dog found a human limb and brought it home... great fun was had explaining it to the cops...
2013-03-17T07:58:10 < baird> "It'S tAsTeD hUmAn FlEsH!!!!!"
2013-03-17T07:59:14 < ossifrage> yeah I don't know what condition it was in
2013-03-17T07:59:39 < ossifrage> but it underlined the whole, you don't know where his mouth has been....
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2013-03-17T08:05:03 < dongs> pro job for flyback http://www.indeed.com/cmp/Geniusmods/jobs/Microcontroller-Programmer-ec35c50e65481f56
2013-03-17T08:06:13 < zyp> woah, hardcore stuff
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2013-03-17T08:08:25 < ossifrage> okay I just took my cable apart and the BMP is working but I'm still having the same problem as before...
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2013-03-17T08:08:50 < zyp> which problems?
2013-03-17T08:09:06 < zyp> with flashing?
2013-03-17T08:09:25 < zyp> or with interrupts?
2013-03-17T08:09:34 < ossifrage> nope I have the hardware connected, loaded the flash, run, but I never take any interrupts...
2013-03-17T08:09:43 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-17T08:09:49 < zyp> that's pretty interesting
2013-03-17T08:10:17 < zyp> which lib/framework are you using, if any?
2013-03-17T08:10:29 < ossifrage> opencm3
2013-03-17T08:11:15 < dongs> http://www.quantfinancejobs.com/jobs/job.aspx?JobID=13865 job for zyp
2013-03-17T08:11:18 < zyp> so, your code runs, but no interrupts are ever executed?
2013-03-17T08:11:41 < ossifrage> yup
2013-03-17T08:11:59 < ossifrage> and then it hangs waiting for the uart buffer to empty
2013-03-17T08:12:21 < ossifrage> the same code ran just fine without the debugger connected or the F4 as a debugger
2013-03-17T08:12:51 < zyp> hmm, I'd love to figure out why that happens
2013-03-17T08:14:11 < zyp> can you pastebin the output of «info registers»?
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2013-03-17T08:16:43 < GargantuaSauce> http://xn--d-bga.su/laser_sierpinski.jpg
2013-03-17T08:18:31 < ossifrage> hmm, interesting, this time it isn't running with the debugger unplugged
2013-03-17T08:18:33 < GargantuaSauce> might need to switch to an external dac
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2013-03-17T08:19:24 < GargantuaSauce> though i should probably also be controlling the damn galvos in a way that actually takes their inertia into account
2013-03-17T08:19:54 < zyp> ossifrage, I still want the registers :)
2013-03-17T08:20:14 < ossifrage> http://pastebin.com/KHaw9J1S
2013-03-17T08:21:03 < ossifrage> okay that time it worked
2013-03-17T08:22:26 < zyp> xpsr           0x61000003       1627389955
2013-03-17T08:22:37 < zyp> that 3 there means it's in hardfault
2013-03-17T08:22:38 < ossifrage> nope, what was actually run by the debugger didn't take any interrupts
2013-03-17T08:23:40 < zyp> and interrupts obviously won't be processed while it's running the hardfault handler
2013-03-17T08:24:00 < ossifrage> http://pastebin.com/qzUKKWzg
2013-03-17T08:24:41 < zyp> what does «mon vector_catch» say?
2013-03-17T08:25:03 < ossifrage> my hard_fault_handler is: asm("bkpt\n"); for(;;);
2013-03-17T08:25:08 < ossifrage> Catching vectors: reset hard
2013-03-17T08:25:30 < zyp> hmm
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2013-03-17T08:27:56 < ossifrage> the backtrace show something sane
2013-03-17T08:29:12 < zyp> that's interesting
2013-03-17T08:29:22 < zyp> do you have a reset button on the board?
2013-03-17T08:29:38 < ossifrage> I just disconnected the jtag and the program runs just fine
2013-03-17T08:30:15 < zyp> do you have a reset button on the board?
2013-03-17T08:30:31 < ossifrage> yup
2013-03-17T08:30:38 < zyp> ok, try this
2013-03-17T08:30:55 < zyp> connect debugger, do run, like usual, then hit reset while running
2013-03-17T08:31:09 < ossifrage> but it is an annoying reset button, connected to a oneshot so it can enter bootloader mode
2013-03-17T08:31:50 < zyp> if things works correctly gdb should then intercept and break at the reset handler, and then you press continue to proceed through the startup
2013-03-17T08:32:18 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-17T08:32:18 < ossifrage> grr, gdb in this mode really doesn't want to let you quit
2013-03-17T08:32:35 < zyp> ctrl-d?
2013-03-17T08:32:54 < ossifrage> yeah then it prompts for quit anyway
2013-03-17T08:33:07 < ossifrage> then it prints: putpkt: write failed: Input/output error.
2013-03-17T08:33:12 < ossifrage> and goes back to the prompt :-)
2013-03-17T08:33:41 < zyp> ah, that's a gdb bug
2013-03-17T08:34:13 < zyp> I've considered tracking it down and fixing it, but it haven't annoyed me enough yet :p
2013-03-17T08:34:29 < ossifrage> gdb didn't detect the reset
2013-03-17T08:35:03 < ossifrage> but the board blinked that it reset
2013-03-17T08:35:37 < ossifrage> Remote failure reply: EFF
2013-03-17T08:36:10 < zyp> that usually means that the bmp lost connection with the target
2013-03-17T08:36:12 < ossifrage> ah, that time I got a SIGLOST
2013-03-17T08:36:46 < ossifrage> so that time I got thins to run
2013-03-17T08:36:53 < ossifrage> things to run even
2013-03-17T08:37:07 < ossifrage> and it is taking interrupts
2013-03-17T08:37:50 < ossifrage> but ctrl-c and then run didn't seem to restart from the beginning
2013-03-17T08:39:05 < ossifrage> yeah, the run seems to really just be continuing
2013-03-17T08:39:17 < ossifrage> but if I reload and then run, I'm back to no interrupts
2013-03-17T08:39:38 < ossifrage> actually I'm off in never-never land
2013-03-17T08:39:50 < zyp> still sounds weird
2013-03-17T08:40:08 < zyp> I'd be interested in trying to reproduce it here, if possible
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2013-03-17T08:40:27 < ossifrage> http://pastebin.com/pmfW7Xab
2013-03-17T08:40:38 < zyp> but first I need some sleep
2013-03-17T08:41:00 < zyp> pc             0xfffffffe       0xfffffffe
2013-03-17T08:41:03 < ossifrage> I guess I need to figure out how to reset things before flashing with stlink-util
2013-03-17T08:41:04 < zyp> that's lockup
2013-03-17T08:41:20 < zyp> lockup happens when the hardfault handler faults
2013-03-17T08:42:47 < zyp> I still say forget about stlink, the bmp problem should be easy and more fun to solve :p
2013-03-17T08:43:02 < ossifrage> 'load' with the BMP does a full flash verify right?
2013-03-17T08:43:08 < zyp> no
2013-03-17T08:43:22 < zyp> use «compare-sections» afterwards to verify
2013-03-17T08:46:19 < zyp> anyway, if I can get a copy of the source that will run on any of the boards I have here, I'll try reproducing your problem here tomorrow and tracking down the source
2013-03-17T08:47:59 < ossifrage> what I'm working on right now isn't opensource, the open source thing I'm working on is for a F4 no a F1
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2013-03-17T08:48:59 < ossifrage> but I'll put together something with source that shows of the problem
2013-03-17T08:49:21 < zyp> yeah, that's would be great
2013-03-17T08:49:30 < ossifrage> I think I reproduced it on a F1discovery board
2013-03-17T08:49:33 < jpa-> morning, zyp
2013-03-17T08:49:44 < ossifrage> back many months ago
2013-03-17T08:50:16 < zyp> I'm not interested in your full application, I just want a minimal test case that makes it readily reproducible
2013-03-17T08:50:21 < zyp> :)
2013-03-17T08:50:25 < zyp> jpa-, morning
2013-03-17T08:51:00 < ossifrage> yeah, exactly I'll mess with getting something like that tomorrow. Thanks!
2013-03-17T08:51:08 < zyp> jpa-, my bedtime is sane as always ;)
2013-03-17T08:51:36 < zyp> ossifrage, great, that'll keep me entertained tomorrow, thanks to you too ;)
2013-03-17T08:51:58 < ossifrage> (I'm going to sleep first as well)
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2013-03-17T13:09:38 < dongs> eagle pros, how the fuck do you select a net in eagle and see all places its connected to???
2013-03-17T13:15:20 < qyx_> theres a way, select "name" tool from panel, click on a net, dialog window with text box appears and the net is highlighted
2013-03-17T13:44:50 < dongs> ok i see it
2013-03-17T13:45:00 < dongs> lol @ bright green vs dark green for highgliht
2013-03-17T13:45:02 < dongs> super fuckign readable
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2013-03-17T17:41:26 < zyp> qyx_, sounds roundabout
2013-03-17T17:42:05 < zyp> qyx_, either use the show-tool (with an eye icon) and click on a net, or type «net <name>» in the command field
2013-03-17T17:42:08 < zyp> eh
2013-03-17T17:42:19 < zyp> I mean «show <name>»
2013-03-17T17:42:28 < zyp> «show vcc» for instance
2013-03-17T17:42:45 < qyx_> that might be more usable
2013-03-17T17:43:19 < zyp> I'm using the latter a lot with named nets
2013-03-17T17:43:21 < flop> zyp: is geda easy to use?
2013-03-17T17:43:33 < zyp> I've never used geda, so I can't say
2013-03-17T17:43:42 < qyx_> yes, the show command is probably more appropriate for that :)
2013-03-17T17:44:31 < flop> I think it must be someone else then
2013-03-17T17:45:03 < zyp> try emeb when he wakes up
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2013-03-17T18:17:05 < emeb_mac> i'm here
2013-03-17T18:17:53 < emeb_mac> I find geda/pcb pretty easy to use, but then I've been using it for 5+years.
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2013-03-17T18:55:55 < flop> emeb_mac: does it have advanced features?
2013-03-17T18:56:16 < emeb_mac> flop: define "advanced features"
2013-03-17T18:57:13 < flop> round trace corners?
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2013-03-17T19:11:45 < emeb_mac> flop: I know that it's possible to do rounded corners. I haven't done it myself though.
2013-03-17T19:12:41 < flop> Interesting. Even Kicad cannot do rounded trace corners
2013-03-17T19:14:09 < emeb_mac> I can't attest to how easily that's done, but I have seen boards with length matched traces & arc corners.
2013-03-17T19:22:44 < emeb_mac> just tried it out - it's pretty easy to do.
2013-03-17T19:25:42 < flop> cool! length matched is actually what I was looking for
2013-03-17T19:28:12 < emeb_mac> geda/pcb can report trace length, but you have to do the matching yourself.
2013-03-17T19:34:38 < sterna1> I know it's possible to do in eagle at least
2013-03-17T19:34:50 < sterna1> both rounded corners and length latched
2013-03-17T19:35:00 < sterna1> but what do you need round corners?
2013-03-17T19:35:08 < sterna1> are you working above 10GHz?
2013-03-17T19:36:10 < sterna1> becuase I saw a paper where he found out that the corner shape has virtually no effect on the signal unless its REALLY HF
2013-03-17T19:36:45 < sterna1> http://emcmadesimple.com/pdfs/publications/corners-USA.pdf
2013-03-17T19:37:49 < flop> I need to route some ddr3
2013-03-17T19:38:15 < sterna1> right...
2013-03-17T19:38:23 < sterna1> equal distance, definitely
2013-03-17T19:40:22 < flop> equal trace length you mean?
2013-03-17T19:41:22 < sterna1> yes
2013-03-17T19:45:12 < qyx_> how do you do that in eagle?
2013-03-17T19:45:50 < flop> yeah, how?
2013-03-17T19:49:31 < qyx_> apparently i don't use most of the offered functionality of eagle as zyp said :P
2013-03-17T19:49:59 < sterna1> flop: meander tool I think
2013-03-17T19:50:22 < sterna1> but I think you need to do mathing yourself
2013-03-17T19:50:31 < sterna1> I haven't used it much
2013-03-17T19:51:24 < flop> ok
2013-03-17T19:51:30 < sterna1> you could try help meander
2013-03-17T19:59:12 < emeb_mac> wonder if diptrace does that?
2013-03-17T19:59:20  * emeb_mac looks
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2013-03-17T20:09:47 < flop> what's the most used pcb layout in the industry?
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2013-03-17T20:09:54 < flop> *cad
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2013-03-17T20:16:12 < emeb_mac> that's a really hard question to answer.
2013-03-17T20:16:29 < emeb_mac> depends on your definition of "industry"
2013-03-17T20:16:52 < sterna1> I beleive most hobbyists use either kiCad or Eagle
2013-03-17T20:17:19 < sterna1> I know that Altium i rather at workplaces
2013-03-17T20:20:37 < sterna1> omg, the meander tool in eagle was really retarded
2013-03-17T20:21:06 < sterna1> or, the whole differential pair-router
2013-03-17T20:21:28 < sterna1> mostly because it uses some kind of autoroute, and autorouters suck
2013-03-17T20:27:06 < flop> emeb_mac: routing intermediate complexity pcb
2013-03-17T20:28:06 < flop> say I want to find a job as pcb designer, which pcb cad should I learn?
2013-03-17T20:29:26 < sterna1> I beleive you could learn any software, since they are not THAT different from what I experienced
2013-03-17T20:29:56 < sterna1> it's your skills as an electronics designer they should pay for, not which software you use to do it
2013-03-17T20:31:09 < sterna1> I mean, if you get a job as an electronics designer, and they use a specific software on that company, it shouldn't take you that long to learn the new software if you kn ow how ot use one
2013-03-17T20:31:59 < sterna1> I learnt how to use the more basic featuers of KiCad from knowing Eagle and routed almost a full PCB in one night
2013-03-17T20:32:03 < flop> but to become efficient in using a software, you need to use it for some time
2013-03-17T20:32:39 < sterna1> sure, but it helps if you have used something similar
2013-03-17T20:33:03 < sterna1> but really, I don't know which software is most widely used
2013-03-17T20:33:34 < sterna1> I know that more companies are migrating to KiCad (since a friend of mine a real linux-missionary)
2013-03-17T20:33:35 < flop> I trying to figure out if I should learn some altium, orcad or dx
2013-03-17T20:34:34 < sterna1> I'd say altium
2013-03-17T20:34:49 < sterna1> but you could ask over in #electronics
2013-03-17T20:34:55 < sterna1> but with two #
2013-03-17T20:34:55 < flop> ok
2013-03-17T20:37:23 < flop> also, how does gEDA compares to Kicad?
2013-03-17T20:49:22 < emeb_mac> gEDA is less well integrated
2013-03-17T20:49:41 < emeb_mac> it's separate tools, often run from command line.
2013-03-17T20:50:00 < jpa-> geda's gerber viewer is nicer.. so i use it with kicad :P
2013-03-17T20:50:01 < emeb_mac> Kicad is separate tools, but they have a nice GUI wrapper.
2013-03-17T20:50:30 < emeb_mac> Kicad does pours much more nicely than gEDA/PCB
2013-03-17T20:50:59 < emeb_mac> gEDA/PCB pours sometimes violate min linewidth rules and it doesn't catch them.
2013-03-17T20:52:34 < Laurenceb_> ill have to try and get kicad working
2013-03-17T20:53:08 < Laurenceb_> found it crazy confusing last time
2013-03-17T20:53:11 < flop> so conclusion is that I better use Kicad instead of gEDA?
2013-03-17T20:55:06 < emeb_mac> Kicad is probably easier to start.
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2013-03-17T20:55:41 < emeb_mac> but it can be confusing too - pay attention to the pop-up menu options as they contain much of the overall functionality.
2013-03-17T20:55:59 < flop> what about capability? does gEDA had better capability?
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2013-03-17T20:56:09 < flop> has*
2013-03-17T20:56:22 < emeb_mac> I'd say they're about the same at the surface.
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2013-03-17T20:56:48 < emeb_mac> gEDA is much more controllable if you want to learn scripting and text commands.
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2013-03-17T20:57:25 < sterna1> can't you do that with kicad and eagle too?
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2013-03-17T20:58:53 < emeb_mac> don't know about that. gEDA has a powerful netlist translation app based on Scheme that can do amazing things.
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2013-03-17T20:59:41 < emeb_mac> and the PCB tool has text commands that can do way more than what you see on the GUI menus.
2013-03-17T21:02:18 < sterna1> eagle also has text commands
2013-03-17T21:02:37 < sterna1> and I agree that it's the eay to go
2013-03-17T21:02:39 < sterna1> *way
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2013-03-17T21:03:38 < flop> ah
2013-03-17T21:03:49 < flop> then I should learn gEDA someday..
2013-03-17T21:04:25 < flop> (because of the amazing things it can do)
2013-03-17T21:04:37 < sterna1> I've actually never heard of gEDA
2013-03-17T21:04:56 < sterna1> what OS does it run on
2013-03-17T21:05:02 < sterna1> does it cost money?
2013-03-17T21:05:26 < flop> free
2013-03-17T21:05:45 < flop> hence "g"EDA
2013-03-17T21:06:09 < flop> "gratis" EDA
2013-03-17T21:06:22 < sterna1> isn't it GPL EDA?
2013-03-17T21:08:00 < sterna1> what I would wish for is a standard in schematic and boards and portability between programs
2013-03-17T21:08:39 < sterna1> since some people at my electronics use KiCad and some use Eagle, it feels like it's double work sometimes
2013-03-17T21:15:35 < Laurenceb_> gnu not free
2013-03-17T21:15:57 < Laurenceb_> free as in tons of rules
2013-03-17T21:16:13 < Laurenceb_>  "free as in fascism"
2013-03-17T21:24:01 < flop> is there still freedom?
2013-03-17T21:24:33 < Laurenceb_> not with RMS
2013-03-17T21:25:00 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: way more freedom than with any non-gpl alternative, though
2013-03-17T21:25:11 < jpa-> (because those are all proprietary)
2013-03-17T21:25:53 < flop> RMS?
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2013-03-17T21:29:46 < Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman
2013-03-17T21:32:43 < flop> Laurenceb: what kind of freedom do you want?
2013-03-17T21:33:04 < Laurenceb_> freedom from complex licensing
2013-03-17T21:33:20 < zyp> freedom to screw over everyone
2013-03-17T21:33:23 < Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beerware
2013-03-17T21:33:34 < jpa-> Laurenceb_: when has the license of a PCB program bothered you?
2013-03-17T21:33:48 < Laurenceb_> never
2013-03-17T21:34:04 < jpa-> then what are you complaining about?
2013-03-17T21:34:15 < Laurenceb_> thats why i use eagle :P
2013-03-17T21:34:24 < flop> lol
2013-03-17T21:34:44 < Laurenceb_> haxored eagle
2013-03-17T21:34:49 < jpa-> lol but eagle sucks, <insert reason here>
2013-03-17T21:35:42 < flop> why use it at all if you defend freedom?
2013-03-17T21:36:41 < jpa-> i doubt he would really be stupid enough to use cracked eagle for his work
2013-03-17T21:39:52 < sterna1> the trouble with GPL is that it's like virus in the sense that if some part of your program is GPL, then your whole program has to be GPL
2013-03-17T21:40:34 < Laurenceb_> exactly
2013-03-17T21:40:59 < sterna1> which I can see as reason not for companies (who want to make money) would not want to use GPL-tools, even if they are a better alternative
2013-03-17T21:41:02 < jpa-> yeah yeah, nothing of which is a problem if you aren't using a library but a program
2013-03-17T21:41:23 < jpa-> there is no reason to avoid GPL *tools*
2013-03-17T21:41:36 < jpa-> there are reasons to avoid GPL *libraries*
2013-03-17T21:41:48 < qyx_> gpl doesnt apply to the output of gpl-ed software
2013-03-17T21:41:58 < jpa-> indeed
2013-03-17T21:42:01 < qyx_> as jpa- says
2013-03-17T21:42:29 < sterna1> right, if you use gpl tools to develop whatever you are developing, what you are making doesn't have to be gpl
2013-03-17T21:42:50 < sterna1> which is why you can use GCC to compile a proprietary program
2013-03-17T21:44:03 < sterna1> and yes, as jpa- says, if you use a library there might be reasons to avoid GPL
2013-03-17T21:45:00 < flop> freedom has a price
2013-03-17T21:45:39 < sterna1> and yes, I believe the world would be a better place if all software was free, but I also believe that the world would be a better place if all politics was communism
2013-03-17T21:45:52 < sterna1> handled correctly, it will be a great world
2013-03-17T21:46:08 < sterna1> but handled incorrectly, crashes will come
2013-03-17T21:46:40 < flop> sterna1: all of this should start with eliminating lazy people
2013-03-17T21:47:18 < sterna1> it should start with everyone switching to metrics
2013-03-17T21:48:14 < Laurenceb_> not sure if troll
2013-03-17T21:48:25 < flop> what's wrong with imperial?
2013-03-17T21:48:37 < Laurenceb_> more like whats wrong with communism
2013-03-17T21:48:39 < zyp> what's right with imperial?
2013-03-17T21:48:47 < Laurenceb_> also inb4 flames
2013-03-17T21:49:33 < flop> communism is not for human being
2013-03-17T21:50:09 < emeb_mac> snerk
2013-03-17T21:55:15 < Laurenceb_> anarchism ftw
2013-03-17T21:57:19 < Laurenceb_> i wonder if there is a political system based around trolling?
2013-03-17T21:57:33 < Laurenceb_> trollerism?
2013-03-17T21:58:22 < flop> well everyone is too busy either acquiring more money or power
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2013-03-17T22:00:19 < qyx_> money allows you to gain more power
2013-03-17T22:00:29 < qyx_> and power is the basis of evolution
2013-03-17T22:01:19 < flop> and revolution!
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2013-03-17T22:11:23 < sterna1> with great power comes great resistance times current squared
2013-03-17T22:11:49 < emeb_mac> trollarchy
2013-03-17T22:12:00 < flop> lol
2013-03-17T22:15:35 < Laurenceb_> thats it
2013-03-17T22:15:39 < Laurenceb_> trollarchy
2013-03-17T22:15:46 < Laurenceb_> my ideal political system
2013-03-17T22:18:48 < sterna1> lets do this
2013-03-17T22:18:57 < sterna1> who's with us!
2013-03-17T22:21:16 < flop> we can automate it using an stm32
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2013-03-17T22:32:04 < ossifrage> Is there an easy way form gdb macros?
2013-03-17T22:32:15 < zyp> sure
2013-03-17T22:32:29 < ossifrage> doh, lets try that again
2013-03-17T22:32:38 < zyp> http://cgit.jvnv.net/laks_demo/tree/.gdbinit <- like this?
2013-03-17T22:32:43 < ossifrage> is there an easy way to do read modify writes from gdb macros
2013-03-17T22:33:02 < zyp> should be
2013-03-17T22:33:18 < zyp> I've never done it, so better check the documentation
2013-03-17T22:33:20 < ossifrage> I'm trying to figure out how to turn DMAs off prior to calling load
2013-03-17T22:41:07 < ossifrage> okay screw read modify write, just write 4 to RCC_AHBENR before doing a load
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2013-03-18T00:11:19 < emeb_mac> zyp: sent gsmcmullin a pull request. Hope I did it right. :)
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2013-03-18T00:35:50 <+Steffanx> hmm, it's sunday.. again
2013-03-18T00:36:07 < emeb_mac> that keeps happening. who's responsible?
2013-03-18T00:36:31 <+Steffanx> Nah, sunday only means it's quiet-ish here
2013-03-18T00:37:49 < emeb_mac> everyone must be in church or something.
2013-03-18T00:38:23 <+Steffanx> Not around 23:38
2013-03-18T00:38:51 < emeb_mac> you never know. some of these zealots go to church at odd hours.
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2013-03-18T00:50:20 < mtbg> hi
2013-03-18T00:51:01 <+Steffanx> lo
2013-03-18T00:52:43 < zyp> z
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2013-03-18T01:07:41 < sterna1> it's monday?
2013-03-18T01:07:49 < sterna1> where I am at least
2013-03-18T01:09:42 <+Steffanx> Yes, it's monday here too now
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2013-03-18T01:27:04 < BJFreeman> still st Patricks day here
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2013-03-18T01:56:27 < upgrdman> i never understood the sunday-is-low stuff
2013-03-18T01:56:42 < upgrdman> when i worked retail is was obvious that sunday mornings were slow but
2013-03-18T01:56:52 < upgrdman> it didnt seem like most were religious
2013-03-18T01:57:13 < upgrdman> i wonder what % of people attent church regularly.
2013-03-18T01:57:24 < upgrdman> hopefully its small
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2013-03-18T02:08:54 < dongs> helloblogs
2013-03-18T02:09:10 < dongs> lol church
2013-03-18T02:09:46 < upgrdman> ya
2013-03-18T02:09:51 < zyp> I bet dongs goes to church every sunday
2013-03-18T02:10:20 < upgrdman> i wonder what a graph of intelligence vs religiousness would look like
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2013-03-18T02:34:53 < mtbg> lol
2013-03-18T02:42:06 < zyp> time to learn some jpaspeak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_profanity
2013-03-18T02:50:36 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2013-03-18T02:56:56 < sterna1> perkele
2013-03-18T02:57:22 < sterna1> that's like the only thing I know in finnish
2013-03-18T02:57:36 < sterna1> also "Eisä peitää"
2013-03-18T02:57:42 < sterna1> "May not be covered"
2013-03-18T02:58:05 < zyp> yeah, that one is well known
2013-03-18T02:59:39 < sterna1> gaah, I will never ever agian try LPC1313
2013-03-18T02:59:48 < sterna1> I will in thev future forever stick with stm32
2013-03-18T03:00:01 < mtbg> why?
2013-03-18T03:00:19 < sterna1> lpc1313 is one of the most retarded microcontrollers I've tried
2013-03-18T03:00:40 < zyp> how?
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2013-03-18T03:01:12 < sterna1> good parts: cortex-m3, 72MHz, cheap (about 3 €), and rather small package
2013-03-18T03:01:58 < sterna1> bad: terrible to route (SWD-pins are placed optimally bad), all periphirals on less than half of the pins, making it effectively impossible to use most of them
2013-03-18T03:02:12 < sterna1> terrible timers (really hard to do good pwm)
2013-03-18T03:02:33 < sterna1> built-in flash-saving function is really weird and really slow
2013-03-18T03:02:59 < sterna1> I need to save like 10 bytes of data, but needs to use 2kB of memory, because it works in pages
2013-03-18T03:03:16 < zyp> of course you have, that's how flash memory works
2013-03-18T03:03:36 < sterna1> yeah, but the sectors are huge
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2013-03-18T03:03:43 < sterna1> I think stm32s sectors are smaller
2013-03-18T03:03:51 < sterna1> or perhaps it's even 4kB
2013-03-18T03:04:10 < zyp> again, that's how flash works
2013-03-18T03:04:25 < zyp> it's not intended for holding a bunch of small values that changes often
2013-03-18T03:04:34 < sterna1> yeah, I knoe
2013-03-18T03:04:47 < sterna1> and it's a shame most arm-based microcontrollers don't have eeprom
2013-03-18T03:04:54 < zyp> and that's hardly unique for lpc1313
2013-03-18T03:05:07 < sterna1> yes
2013-03-18T03:05:11 < zyp> stm32l1 has eeprom, to mention one
2013-03-18T03:05:14 < mtbg> how much layers did you used for the pcb? and yes, stm32 microcontrollers tend to have somewhat more decent pinout
2013-03-18T03:05:47 < sterna1> 2 layers
2013-03-18T03:05:50 < sterna1> home-made pcb
2013-03-18T03:07:39 < sterna1> still, I have routed much harder things
2013-03-18T03:07:51 < zyp> hmm, swd pins are 3, 28, 29 and 39, that's fun :p
2013-03-18T03:08:34 < sterna1> I mean, reset is always, on all microcontrollers, placed as far away from the other programming pins
2013-03-18T03:09:04 < sterna1> but, I mean, if there are two programming pins, how hard can it be to put them next to each other?
2013-03-18T03:09:37 < sterna1> I have never designed silicon, but I can image you would like the clock and data pins to be close to eachother
2013-03-18T03:09:46 < mtbg> all microcontrollers of the lpc11/lpc13 family have built-in uart bootloader
2013-03-18T03:10:12 < mtbg> if flash programming is enough for you, you can use it instead
2013-03-18T03:10:32 < sterna1> yeah, I have built-in uart bootloader
2013-03-18T03:10:38 < sterna1> but I want to able to debug as well
2013-03-18T03:11:11 < sterna1> and, it only has one uart, and I need that for something else (of course it's possible to still use it)
2013-03-18T03:11:30 < sterna1> oh yeah, configuring uart is a pain
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2013-03-18T03:11:56 < zyp> on lpc43xx debug pads have pretty decent locations, apart from reset
2013-03-18T03:12:13 < sterna1> isn't that the dual-core one?
2013-03-18T03:12:22 < sterna1> or was it lpc44xx?
2013-03-18T03:12:27 < zyp> yes
2013-03-18T03:12:47 < zyp> there is no lpc44
2013-03-18T03:14:17 < sterna1> but they're only available in BGA right?
2013-03-18T03:14:31 < zyp> no, they should be available in qfp as well
2013-03-18T03:14:59 < zyp> I did bga, because I wanted experience with designing and soldering a board with bga
2013-03-18T03:15:28 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/eaiEM.png http://bin.jvnv.net/f/Uby5B.png http://bin.jvnv.net/f/Mv7rw.JPG
2013-03-18T03:15:48 < sterna1> where did you order that board?
2013-03-18T03:16:20 < sterna1> and is that only 2 layers?
2013-03-18T03:16:24 < zyp> no, 4
2013-03-18T03:16:34 < sterna1> buried vias?
2013-03-18T03:16:37 < zyp> no
2013-03-18T03:16:59 < sterna1> how much clearance and trace width were you allowed?
2013-03-18T03:17:12 < zyp> it's designed for 6/6
2013-03-18T03:17:20 < zyp> and 10/20 vias
2013-03-18T03:18:45 < sterna1> mils?
2013-03-18T03:18:45 < mtbg> zyp: what raster is that bga?
2013-03-18T03:18:53 < zyp> 1mm pitch
2013-03-18T03:19:01 < mtbg> hm
2013-03-18T03:19:10 < sterna1> 1mm pitch is huge?
2013-03-18T03:19:13 < zyp> yes
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2013-03-18T03:19:25 < zyp> seems like most common stuff is 0.8mm
2013-03-18T03:19:42 < zyp> but that would require a better via spec I think
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2013-03-18T03:20:09 < mtbg> is it a good idea to place bga pads in plugged vias?
2013-03-18T03:20:32 < zyp> isn't that the point of plugging them?
2013-03-18T03:20:45 < mtbg> can be
2013-03-18T03:22:25 < dongs> he got that board from dongs pcb service
2013-03-18T03:22:30 < dongs> and it can do much better spec than that
2013-03-18T03:22:38 < dongs> standard spec is 5/5 i think for 4L
2013-03-18T03:24:14 < mtbg> dongs: any website?
2013-03-18T03:24:34 < dongs> its in japanese, so probably useless for you.
2013-03-18T03:24:46 < dongs> I do special deals for dudes here if I think the project is cool etc.
2013-03-18T03:24:53 < ossifrage> is there an arm instruction for doing bit reverses?
2013-03-18T03:24:54 < mtbg> ah ok
2013-03-18T03:25:06 < dongs> its not cheap but quality is tops. if  you just want shit, get seedstudio 4L service
2013-03-18T03:25:09 < zyp> ossifrage, rev?
2013-03-18T03:25:33 < ossifrage> rev does byte order
2013-03-18T03:25:34 < dongs> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-4-layers-p-1383.html?cPath=185 < lol @ spec
2013-03-18T03:25:38 < ossifrage> rbit?
2013-03-18T03:25:58 < zyp> ah, right
2013-03-18T03:25:59 < zyp> yes
2013-03-18T03:29:48 < zippe> Depends on what counts as "common" stuff. Lot of high volume in 0.3 at the moment. 8)
2013-03-18T03:30:24 < dongs> lol
2013-03-18T03:30:26 < dongs> 0.3mm pitch?
2013-03-18T03:30:36 < zyp> sounds fun
2013-03-18T03:36:28 < sterna1> does seeedstudio use the same manufacturing place as itead?
2013-03-18T03:37:33 < sterna1> because I recognize the parameters, prices and some of the images
2013-03-18T03:38:15 < sterna1> yeees, I finally solved my motor problem
2013-03-18T03:38:37 < sterna1> I use complementary PWM to drive my two dc motors
2013-03-18T03:39:13 < sterna1> and this means I need to generate some of the pwm in software (LPC1313 PWM does not offer much functionality)
2013-03-18T03:40:35 < sterna1> the trouble is, if I want to keep at only one interrupt per cycle (I'm running pwm at a rather high frequency) it means that if the processor for some reason misses interrupts for an extended period of time, the motor runs at maximum speed
2013-03-18T03:40:52 < sterna1> and, when I'm writing to flash, interrupts do not happen
2013-03-18T03:41:12 < sterna1> which means that for as long as I'm writing to flash, the motors run at maxium speed
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2013-03-18T03:51:15 < ossifrage> how about an instruction to do parity generation (sum of each bit or xor of each bit)
2013-03-18T03:58:56 < gxti> dear gdb, quit means quiet you fucking piece of shit
2013-03-18T03:59:08 < gxti> not "let's ask the target if it wants to quit oh hmm not responding"
2013-03-18T03:59:17 < gxti> better just shit here and jerk off
2013-03-18T03:59:35 < ossifrage> gxti, it is even worse when it takes an error quiting and throws you back to the prompt while eating ctrl-z
2013-03-18T04:00:09 < gxti> twice in a row now i've accidentally tried to run the script to flash while i had gdb open
2013-03-18T04:00:18 < gxti> and both gdbs just get stuck
2013-03-18T04:00:21 < gxti> so sad.
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2013-03-18T04:36:18 <+Steffanx> meh
2013-03-18T04:37:33 < emeb_mac> meh?
2013-03-18T04:42:19 < BrainDamage> meh.
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2013-03-18T05:09:21 < dongs> meh.
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2013-03-18T05:52:31 < ossifrage> dma_enable_circular_mode() really upsets flash programming via stlink or bmp
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2013-03-18T06:36:07 < dongs> jesus
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2013-03-18T06:36:21 < dongs> zyp: that microusb socket you use is 8c from my supplier
2013-03-18T06:39:15 < ossifrage> that seems a bit cheap, considering how precise things need to be for microusb connector to work
2013-03-18T06:41:41 < dongs> dunno ill get 500 and find out
2013-03-18T06:42:52 < ossifrage> you are building something that requires 500 usb connectors?
2013-03-18T06:43:03 < dongs> yes
2013-03-18T06:43:05 < dongs> all on same pcb too.
2013-03-18T06:43:44 < ossifrage> cool, I've never worked on something that had a decent volume
2013-03-18T06:44:14 < ossifrage> except for a DSP company, but that doesn't count
2013-03-18T06:49:41 < ossifrage> any ideas where the STM32 ITM is documented (looking for the cycle counter)
2013-03-18T06:50:02 < dongs> isnt it in arm_arm or whateve.r
2013-03-18T06:50:08 < dongs> are you talkin about DWC_CYCCNT stuff?
2013-03-18T06:50:23 < dongs> i.e. shit cmsis doesnt make defines for so everyone else has to
2013-03-18T06:53:20 < ossifrage> trying to figure out why what is supposed to be a lower priority interrupt is causing overflows on the usart
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2013-03-18T07:08:07 < dongs> aw, cocks. knew 8c was too good to be true. its 40c
2013-03-18T07:12:29 < dongs> oh well st ill better htan digikey and paypal
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2013-03-18T07:24:13 < emeb_mac> $0.40 is pretty cheap.
2013-03-18T07:25:40 < ds2> it costs more to send a letter!
2013-03-18T07:26:46 < emeb_mac> I guess uUSB socket is cheaper because the moving parts are in the plug/cable.
2013-03-18T07:45:11 < dongs> no, my mini-b is cheaper
2013-03-18T07:45:22 < dongs> 70 for 200
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2013-03-18T14:53:20 < donigs> sup dongs
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2013-03-18T15:09:42 < Laurenceb> omfg - now we can spot flyback
2013-03-18T15:09:46 < Laurenceb> http://www.koanicsoul.com/blog/2013/01/24/edenic-phrenology-vindicated-science-discovers-facial-pattern-for-autism-aspergers/
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2013-03-18T15:37:49 < Robint91> hi all
2013-03-18T15:38:02 < zyp> all just left
2013-03-18T15:39:10  * Laurenceb is reading the uclinux app note
2013-03-18T15:39:26 < Laurenceb> i dont see how you could run uclinux on f4discovery
2013-03-18T15:39:31 < Laurenceb> not enough ram?
2013-03-18T15:39:44 < Robint91> Laurenceb, yeah you need atleast 2MB
2013-03-18T15:39:49 < Laurenceb> someone on the st forum claimed it was possible
2013-03-18T15:40:16 < Laurenceb> the uclinux app note demo is about 500KB
2013-03-18T15:40:19 < Robint91> Laurenceb, But I don't now if you can use XIP to leave the kernel in the flash
2013-03-18T15:40:25 < Laurenceb> yes sure
2013-03-18T15:40:26 < Robint91> Laurenceb, and use XIP
2013-03-18T15:40:31 < Laurenceb> app note demo uses that
2013-03-18T15:40:40 < Laurenceb> but still its using a lot of ram
2013-03-18T15:40:59 < Robint91> Laurenceb, link to appnote?
2013-03-18T15:41:02 < BrainDamage> got a link for that?
2013-03-18T15:41:15 < Laurenceb> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=romfs%20stm32&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CGcQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.st.com%2Fst-web-ui%2Fstatic%2Factive%2Fen%2Fresource%2Ftechnical%2Fdocument%2Fapplication_note%2FCD00242717.pdf&ei=6xJHUbXIIsv60gXe6YGwAQ&usg=AFQjCNFpQHPoHuGeBe33Swcf7MqoCTKd8Q&cad=rja
2013-03-18T15:41:20 < Laurenceb> rage @google
2013-03-18T15:42:17 < Laurenceb> theres a forum thread where someone claims to have uclinux on f4discovery using XIP and romfs
2013-03-18T15:42:26 < Laurenceb> and it uses ~100KB ram
2013-03-18T15:42:45 < Robint91> Laurenceb, linky?
2013-03-18T15:43:32 < Laurenceb> https://my.st.com/public/STe2ecommunities/mcu/Lists/cortex_mx_stm32/Flat.aspx?RootFolder=https%3a%2f%2fmy.st.com%2fpublic%2fSTe2ecommunities%2fmcu%2fLists%2fcortex_mx_stm32%2fuClinux%20on%20STM32&FolderCTID=0x01200200770978C69A1141439FE559EB459D7580009C4E14902C3CDE46A77F0FFD06506F5B&currentviews=25957
2013-03-18T15:43:38 < Laurenceb> scroll down
2013-03-18T15:43:52 < Laurenceb> "I successfully booted the kernel on the STMF417 with only the internal SRAM and FLASH."
2013-03-18T15:44:08 < Laurenceb> ok so not F4discovery, but itd still run on f4discovery if true
2013-03-18T15:46:02 < Robint91> Laurenceb, AH no busybox
2013-03-18T15:46:11 < Robint91> Laurenceb, that explains a lot
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2013-03-18T15:51:15 < Laurenceb> ah
2013-03-18T15:52:04 < Robint91> Laurenceb, not having busybox is just making the linux kernel a small RTOS like system
2013-03-18T15:52:13 < Laurenceb> yes
2013-03-18T15:52:14 < Laurenceb> lol
2013-03-18T15:52:19 < Laurenceb> its kind of useless
2013-03-18T15:52:26 < zyp> except for the lack of RT?
2013-03-18T15:53:02 < Robint91> zyp, RTOS "LIKE" system
2013-03-18T15:53:08 < Robint91> zyp, without the RT part
2013-03-18T15:53:20 < Laurenceb> so added fail
2013-03-18T15:53:43 < Laurenceb> but nerd points to anyone who actually demonstrates this working
2013-03-18T15:54:20 < Laurenceb> theres busybox build options to reduce ram...
2013-03-18T15:54:43 < Laurenceb> but i bet theres no way you could fit it all onto an f4
2013-03-18T15:56:35 < dongs> hmm wtf
2013-03-18T15:56:42 < dongs> propal is drawing bga schematic
2013-03-18T15:56:46 < dongs> and all the bypass caps are 4.7uF?!
2013-03-18T15:56:54 < Robint91> propal?
2013-03-18T15:57:02 < Robint91> dongs, which BGA?
2013-03-18T15:57:30 < dongs> why hte fuck would you need that much capacitance
2013-03-18T15:57:34 < BrainDamage> can't you use the external ram controller?
2013-03-18T15:57:36 < dongs> some spartan6
2013-03-18T15:57:48 < BrainDamage> @ failrenceb
2013-03-18T15:58:15 < zyp> dongs, how's the ESR for that compared to 100n?
2013-03-18T15:58:27 < dongs> zyp: yea spec asks like... specific esc
2013-03-18T15:58:31 < dongs> < 0.1R or something
2013-03-18T15:58:48 < dongs> lemme find wtf its says he pasted me some shit i was just wtf'ing at the size
2013-03-18T15:59:04 < Robint91> but watch out with large ceramic caps
2013-03-18T15:59:18 < zyp> for decoupling caps ESR is more important than capacitance
2013-03-18T15:59:20 < dongs> oh no..
2013-03-18T15:59:29 < Robint91> they have like 4.7u with a DC bais of 0 Volts
2013-03-18T15:59:37 < dongs> 4.7s dont spec esr.. only spec 'Z"
2013-03-18T15:59:37 < dongs> < 0.1ohm @ < 100mhz, <0.4 ohm @ 500mhz
2013-03-18T15:59:43 < Robint91> but at 3.3Volt it can drop to 0.4uF
2013-03-18T16:00:59 < Laurenceb> wtf is propal?
2013-03-18T16:01:52 < dongs> http://shop.ztex.de/popup_image.php?pID=60 lol
2013-03-18T16:02:00 < dongs> nice cap arrays
2013-03-18T16:02:16 < Robint91> dongs, they have shit layouts
2013-03-18T16:02:17 < gxti> wat
2013-03-18T16:02:27 < dongs> Robint91: no shit
2013-03-18T16:02:46 < Laurenceb> lol @ layout
2013-03-18T16:03:17 < Laurenceb> wtf does it do?
2013-03-18T16:03:25 < Laurenceb> just a devboard?
2013-03-18T16:03:31 < gxti> looks like it
2013-03-18T16:04:06 < zyp> ztex, that's the guys that are also doing some bitcoin boards
2013-03-18T16:04:07 < gxti> i like the wiggly traces near the headers
2013-03-18T16:04:17 < gxti> just kinda doin wtf ever
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2013-03-18T16:07:25 < Claude> hmm so what is your definition of a non-shit layout ? it's a bit difficult to judge a layout by looking at a single layer of it .for me it looks like the pcb designer knows what he does . for example look at the cap arrays and the placement of the vias .. completly done right and something you probably don't see on a visual more appeling layout with straight traces and other beatufied stuff
2013-03-18T16:07:30 < dongs> one of my propals bypassed a xc3 like this http://i.imgur.com/ceb2G4i.jpg
2013-03-18T16:08:13 < Robint91> dongs, that isn't that bad, but MORE VIAS
2013-03-18T16:08:42 < Claude> and vcc via -> bypass cap -> bga ball ;)
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2013-03-18T16:28:41 < zyp> dongs, looks nice
2013-03-18T16:28:52 < zyp> does that chip have vcc inputs along the edge?
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2013-03-18T16:30:22 <+Steffanx> ~symmetry ftw dongs
2013-03-18T16:33:34 < Laurenceb> ur doinitwrong
2013-03-18T16:33:36 < Laurenceb> http://olimex.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/a10s-2.jpg
2013-03-18T16:33:42 < Laurenceb> thats how to decouple
2013-03-18T16:34:15 < Robint91> Laurenceb, that is really bad
2013-03-18T16:35:00 < Laurenceb> no shit :P
2013-03-18T16:36:04 < zyp> probably looks good to people that have no knowledge about decoupling
2013-03-18T16:36:18 < zyp> I mean, look how nicely all the components are lined up!
2013-03-18T16:41:30 < donigs> ya
2013-03-18T16:41:36 < donigs> reminds me of this shit this one guy was pastingf
2013-03-18T16:42:23 < donigs> lemme see if i can find pics
2013-03-18T16:42:32 <+Steffanx> tom66?
2013-03-18T16:42:40 < donigs> no, not as bad
2013-03-18T16:42:43 < donigs> he;s done
2013-03-18T16:43:06 < zyp> done? did the give up?
2013-03-18T16:43:28 <+Steffanx> He bought an oven + stencils
2013-03-18T16:44:22 < donigs> no done as in gave the fuck up
2013-03-18T16:44:34 < Laurenceb> hmm the uclinux config tool thingy actually makes it quite pleasant
2013-03-18T16:44:49 < Laurenceb> pity uclinux is useless :P
2013-03-18T16:45:12 < Laurenceb> when im exceptionally board ill get it loaded on an F4discovery
2013-03-18T16:45:15 < donigs> http://i.imgur.com/wUZFdh0.jpg this trash
2013-03-18T16:45:18 < Laurenceb> just for nerd points
2013-03-18T16:46:01 < zyp> Laurenceb, your so board!
2013-03-18T16:46:18  * Steffanx is board too
2013-03-18T16:46:19 < donigs> "im gonna line up bypass caps nice and in a row far away from the chip its bypassing
2013-03-18T16:46:22 < donigs> cuz it looks cool
2013-03-18T16:46:31 < BrainDamage> he should've spiraled the traces a bit more since he was there
2013-03-18T16:46:36 < donigs> yeah
2013-03-18T16:47:44 -!- mrcan_ is now known as mrcan
2013-03-18T16:47:58 < donigs> k bedtime
2013-03-18T16:48:13 <+Steffanx> gn
2013-03-18T16:48:29 <+Steffanx> Say hi from your irc buddies to wifecop
2013-03-18T16:48:41 < Laurenceb> bored of board
2013-03-18T16:48:47 < Laurenceb> stupid autocorrect
2013-03-18T16:49:27 <+Steffanx> Sure
2013-03-18T16:49:39 <+Steffanx> Only people on iOS use autocorrect
2013-03-18T16:50:48 < zyp> autocorrupt
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2013-03-18T16:56:47 < timemob> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/18/pennsylvania_incident/ this kinda shit never happens to laurenceb
2013-03-18T17:00:28 < Robint91> ##stm32 what is your verdict on software DC/DC converters to driver high power leds? TI does that with there C2000 series
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2013-03-18T17:09:01 < jpa-> Robint91: should work
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2013-03-18T17:09:22 < jpa-> i'm planning to do the same to generate voltages for an e-ink screen.. but haven't done it yet
2013-03-18T17:09:23 < Robint91> jpa-, but would you use it, instead of normal DC/DC controllers?
2013-03-18T17:09:44 < jpa-> Robint91: depends.. if you need many channels and/or controllability, maybe
2013-03-18T17:09:55 < jpa-> if you just need plain simple DC-DC, a dedicated driver is easier
2013-03-18T17:10:27 < BrainDamage> jpa-: where did you find the e-ink?
2013-03-18T17:10:55 < Robint91> jpa-, 5 channels, with full current control
2013-03-18T17:11:31 < Robint91> jpa-, A) use a pretty large C2000 B) use a small MCU with PWM channels and dedicated drivers
2013-03-18T17:11:38 < jpa-> BrainDamage: ebay
2013-03-18T17:12:21 < jpa-> Robint91: uh, shouldn't even the tiniest stm32 be plenty to handle that?
2013-03-18T17:12:52 < Robint91> jpa-, what I'm told that the C2000 has special hardware to do that
2013-03-18T17:13:00 < Robint91> but I think a STM32 can do that also
2013-03-18T17:13:31 < Robint91> jpa-, to get some eff, you need to switch above 300khz
2013-03-18T17:13:56 < Robint91> but then the timers loose alot of resolution on those short periods
2013-03-18T17:14:45 < jpa-> i'm planning to do DC/DC at 500kHz using stm32l151 running at 24MHz.. so 48 steps, and every time i get ADC sample for the feedback i'll adjust the PWM register
2013-03-18T17:15:33 < jpa-> i think it should be plenty, as you don't want a single pulse to change the voltage much anyway.. i.e. balance the filtering capacitance and coil inductance
2013-03-18T17:17:59 < jpa-> only annoying part is that it'll cause quite some interrupt load.. i guess that is what the C2000 special hardware is probably about, i.e. automatic compare and adjust for PWM
2013-03-18T17:18:54 < Robint91> jpa-, yeah, and some super high resolution timers
2013-03-18T17:19:11 < jpa-> the resolution of timers depends solely on the clock frequency of the processor
2013-03-18T17:19:27 < jpa-> the timers on STM32F4 can run at up to 168MHz
2013-03-18T17:19:55 < gxti> i'm going to do 1mhz on a f1, not as much resolution as i'd like but it's just a preregulator anyway.
2013-03-18T17:19:56 < Robint91> jpa-, http://www.ti.com/lit/sg/sprb176n/sprb176n.pdf
2013-03-18T17:20:12 < Robint91> jpa-, 55ps resolution they state
2013-03-18T17:20:56 < jpa-> hmm.. how do they do that? is the timer running at 18 GHz? :)
2013-03-18T17:21:51 < sterna1> I have a timer circuit with resolution of 22ps
2013-03-18T17:22:24 < sterna1> I have used ti to measure the signal propagation delay between 2 pin headers
2013-03-18T17:22:37 < Robint91> http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/spru924f/spru924f.pdf
2013-03-18T17:22:55 < sterna1> there are several ways to get very high resolution
2013-03-18T17:23:31 < sterna1> you could either do as microchip does with their CTMU and measure how much voltage you get i a capacitor by charging it with a constant current
2013-03-18T17:23:58 < jpa-> Robint91: hmm nice, didn't know such thing exists
2013-03-18T17:25:07 < sterna1> or you could do as the timer circuit I work with and have lots of inverters and pass the signal through them
2013-03-18T17:25:15 < sterna1> and check how many it passes through
2013-03-18T17:25:23 < gxti> not applicable here though
2013-03-18T17:25:42 < sterna1> right
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2013-03-18T18:18:04 < Laurenceb> http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=nuttx+stm32&oe=utf-8&gl=uk&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=Jj5HUfzLJ6K30QWn9YGgAg&biw=1280&bih=856&sei=Kj5HUZ-ONeau0QW-6oCoAQ
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2013-03-18T18:20:34 < jpa-> Laurenceb: what's your point?
2013-03-18T18:20:50 < Laurenceb> all #stm32 trollage
2013-03-18T18:20:58 < jpa-> naturally :)
2013-03-18T18:21:18 < Laurenceb> and a photo of zyp
2013-03-18T18:21:25 < jpa-> even my usb analyzer screenshots got up there
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2013-03-18T18:22:31 < Laurenceb> http://www.downloads.reactivemicro.com/Public/Users/Henry_Courbis/Pics/People_Pics/Jeri%20Ellsworth%20%20-%20C1%20Chick%20-%20KFEST%202006.jpg
2013-03-18T18:22:33 < Laurenceb> my eyes
2013-03-18T18:34:16 <+Steffanx> That's the reason why you dont post pictures of yourself on the web?
2013-03-18T18:36:04 < zyp> that's the reason why he post videos of himself instead
2013-03-18T18:36:09 < zyp> http://vimeo.com/15190485
2013-03-18T18:37:31 < Laurenceb> oh noes
2013-03-18T18:37:35 < Laurenceb> ive been found
2013-03-18T18:40:09 < jpa-> hey now i have some new material
2013-03-18T18:40:41 < zyp> for blackmailing?
2013-03-18T18:40:55 < MrMobius> Laurenceb, thats not anyone's girlfriend is it?
2013-03-18T18:41:23 < Robint91> Laurenceb, what is the problem with that pic?
2013-03-18T18:42:06 <+Steffanx> Still not sure which one in the video is laurence? The fat ass with the balloon or the guy in the background?
2013-03-18T18:42:14 < Laurenceb> guess
2013-03-18T18:42:20 <+Steffanx> The FAT ass
2013-03-18T18:42:30 <+Steffanx> Easy guess
2013-03-18T18:42:43 < Robint91> +1 for Steffanx
2013-03-18T18:42:46 < Laurenceb> trololol
2013-03-18T18:42:51 < Laurenceb> but wrong
2013-03-18T18:43:23 < zyp> well, he was the guy that started «running» when instructed to :p
2013-03-18T18:45:42 <+Steffanx> BrainDamage do you ever sleep?
2013-03-18T18:46:18 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/kaushalparikh/nuttx/tree/master/drivers/lcd
2013-03-18T18:46:21 < Laurenceb> interesting
2013-03-18T18:46:22 < BrainDamage> you're the first that asks me that
2013-03-18T18:46:28 < Laurenceb> pwns chibios/gfx
2013-03-18T18:46:33 < BrainDamage> my sleep patterns are fucked up, yes
2013-03-18T18:46:37 <+Steffanx> I understand
2013-03-18T18:46:49  * Laurenceb went through a period of 48hour cycle
2013-03-18T18:47:04 < Laurenceb> stay up for ~30hours, sleep for 18hours
2013-03-18T18:47:41 < Laurenceb> i find it works well.. unless I have a job at the same time
2013-03-18T18:48:10 < zyp> I kinda miss my uni days with 34h cycle
2013-03-18T18:48:34 <+Steffanx> I love my 24 hours cycles
2013-03-18T18:53:22 < zyp> fun reading: http://qntm.org/gay
2013-03-18T18:54:11 <+Steffanx> Yeah, nice story about how fuck up database design is
2013-03-18T18:59:13 < jpa-> Laurenceb: how does that pwn chibios/gfx?
2013-03-18T18:59:28 < jpa-> those are just the low-level tft interface code, which is trivial anyway
2013-03-18T18:59:29 < Laurenceb> more features
2013-03-18T18:59:37 < jpa-> the nuttx graphics routines suck
2013-03-18T18:59:40 < Laurenceb> yes, but its has tons of high level stuff
2013-03-18T18:59:42 < Laurenceb> lol
2013-03-18T18:59:46 < jpa-> it can't even draw a line properly
2013-03-18T19:00:00 < jpa-> let alone antialias *anything*
2013-03-18T19:00:16 <+Steffanx> How can it not draw a line properly?
2013-03-18T19:00:26 < jpa-> Steffanx: by messing it up
2013-03-18T19:01:03 <+Steffanx> You are not being helpful jpa-
2013-03-18T19:02:52 < jpa-> when a line was nearly horizontal, it wasn't drawn at all
2013-03-18T19:03:03 < jpa-> also wide lines were corrupted in multiple ways
2013-03-18T19:03:20 < jpa-> it is supposedly fixed for now, but i still don't quite trust it
2013-03-18T19:03:48 <+Steffanx> Yeah, never trust the internetz
2013-03-18T19:04:18 < jpa-> it seems to not draw the line at exactly the right spot, but instead one pixel off in some situations
2013-03-18T19:04:18 < qyx_> jpa-: are you going to attach eink to stm?
2013-03-18T19:04:28 < jpa-> qyx_: i'm planning to, yeah
2013-03-18T19:04:44 < jpa-> something like  http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOR-ED060SC4-ED060SC4-LF-ED060SC4LF-H2-E-ink-6-LCD-Screen-Display-Panel-Parts-/221182944720?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337f87e5d0
2013-03-18T19:04:52 < qyx_> withou those fancy high voltage drivers?
2013-03-18T19:05:04 <+Steffanx> e-ink is still slow crap imho
2013-03-18T19:05:38 < qyx_> have you found a datasheet describing signals?
2013-03-18T19:05:39 < BrainDamage> still, stupidly low power consumption is interesting
2013-03-18T19:05:49 < BrainDamage> and you don't need high refresh rate for everything
2013-03-18T19:05:54 <+Steffanx> I do
2013-03-18T19:05:55 < BrainDamage> take for instance road signs
2013-03-18T19:06:07 < qyx_> there were some with pinouts and such things but nothing more
2013-03-18T19:06:07 < jpa-> qyx_: not completely.. if i don't find the details i guess i can try it out
2013-03-18T19:06:17 < jpa-> qyx_: i did find a datasheet for the voltages etc. basic stuff
2013-03-18T19:06:23 < qyx_> yep, me too
2013-03-18T19:07:11 < BrainDamage> the internet has ruined me, I cannot read "warehouse" anymore without reading instead "whorehouse", it takes few attempts to get it right
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2013-03-18T19:08:05 <+Steffanx> Blame dongs
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2013-03-18T19:29:35  * hackkitten backs away from BrainDamage 
2013-03-18T19:29:50 < jpa-> hackkitten: nice to see you back here :)
2013-03-18T19:30:02 < hackkitten> hi jpa- :D
2013-03-18T19:31:03 <+Steffanx> Why you dont say that when i join jpa- ?!
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2013-03-18T19:32:10 < jpa-> Steffanx: it's implicit, honey :)
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2013-03-18T19:33:38 < Laurenceb> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0263224104000417
2013-03-18T19:34:13 <+Steffanx> Yes mr Laurenceb ?
2013-03-18T19:36:06 < Laurenceb> tis interesting
2013-03-18T19:36:47 <+Steffanx> Purchase $35.95
2013-03-18T19:36:47 <+Steffanx> worth the 36$?
2013-03-18T19:37:13 < Laurenceb> lolz
2013-03-18T19:37:36 < Laurenceb> guess you need to haxor a uni network
2013-03-18T19:37:51 <+Steffanx> I have a uni network i can use for free :)
2013-03-18T19:38:21 < Laurenceb> then you should see it
2013-03-18T19:38:34 <+Steffanx> or i should just loging :)
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2013-03-18T19:39:35 <+Steffanx> *login
2013-03-18T19:40:03 <+Steffanx> You can also just give me your login Laurenceb
2013-03-18T19:40:08 <+Steffanx> Then others here can see it too
2013-03-18T19:40:13 <+Steffanx> ( or share the pdf )
2013-03-18T19:40:58 < BrainDamage> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40949413/1-s2.0-S0263224104000417-main.pdf
2013-03-18T19:41:05 <+Steffanx> :P
2013-03-18T19:41:11 <+Steffanx> BrainDamage doesnt care
2013-03-18T19:41:22 < sterna1> I was also about to upload it
2013-03-18T19:41:36 < sterna1> since I apparently got it from the university
2013-03-18T19:41:49 < sterna1> and it was automatic without any login
2013-03-18T19:41:56 < sterna1> which is rather cool
2013-03-18T19:42:19 <+Steffanx> Lots of new Aaron Swartzs here
2013-03-18T19:42:35 <+Steffanx> You're on a eduroam network sterna1
2013-03-18T19:42:57 < BrainDamage> if you're in a univ network, there's usually proxies that do auto auth for you
2013-03-18T19:42:58 < sterna1> ok, I didn't realize it worked that way
2013-03-18T19:43:51 <+Steffanx> sciencedirect is going to sue you now BrainDamage
2013-03-18T19:44:41 <+Steffanx> or elsevier
2013-03-18T19:44:58 < karlp> crossbow doesn't exist anymore does it?
2013-03-18T19:45:05 < karlp> oh, paper is from 2004
2013-03-18T19:45:43 < Laurenceb> it seems a bit silly
2013-03-18T19:45:59 < Laurenceb> just process the allen variance FFS
2013-03-18T19:47:57 < sterna1> I think it's rather stupid that they charge like 30 bucks for a paper
2013-03-18T19:52:24 <+Steffanx> Many papers are also pretty easy to find using google
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2013-03-18T19:59:09 < sterna1> haha, that paper had one equation speaking about RMS[s_TRAP[N]]
2013-03-18T19:59:15 < sterna1> or, RMS strap n
2013-03-18T19:59:22 <+Steffanx> :P
2013-03-18T20:00:15 <+Steffanx> Why people make fun about that guy all the time?
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2013-03-18T20:08:43 < jpa-> because he eats his foot while i only pick my nose
2013-03-18T20:17:37 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb grade link: http://gainesville.craigslist.org/res/3664103663.html
2013-03-18T20:18:05 < BrainDamage> I should start making an akronym out of that, it'd fill an useful niche
2013-03-18T20:18:08 < BrainDamage> like NSFW, etc
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2013-03-18T20:41:06 < ossifrage> anyone know of a good example of doing interrupt profiling using the cycle counter?
2013-03-18T20:41:25 < ossifrage> something that can track the time spent in some of the larger interrupt handlers?
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2013-03-18T21:09:15 < sterna1> ossifrage: try using a timer and sample the value when entering an interrupt and when exiting and comparing the diffrerence?
2013-03-18T21:09:39 < sterna1> say you have a timer running at 1MHz
2013-03-18T21:10:12 < sterna1> this will give you a resolution of 1µs
2013-03-18T21:10:26 < ossifrage> I'm going to use the cycle counter, but I'm not sure how useful it will be with so much preemption
2013-03-18T21:10:49 < sterna1> ah, right, then it's more complicated
2013-03-18T21:11:06 < ossifrage> I'm trying to figure out why what is supposed to be a low priority interrupt is causing overruns on the usart
2013-03-18T21:11:57 < sterna1> there might be a way to see if an interrupt hase been preempted
2013-03-18T21:14:19 < sterna1> you could measure times in all interrupts and have a global state variable to keep track of if you have been preempted and so on
2013-03-18T21:14:29 < ossifrage> At ~3KB/s you would think it would be plenty of time, but I still get overruns when another interrupt is enabled
2013-03-18T21:16:26 < sterna1> so, you get overruns beacause your uart interrupt doesn't have time to happen?
2013-03-18T21:16:45 < sterna1> are you sure your uart interrupt can happen at all?
2013-03-18T21:17:38 < ossifrage> what do you mean?
2013-03-18T21:18:08 < sterna1> first question: you get overruns beacause your uart interrupt doesn't have time to happen?
2013-03-18T21:18:21 < ossifrage> I'm assuming so
2013-03-18T21:18:50 < sterna1> and second, are you sure the uart interrupt can happen at all, as in have you verified it works without the other interrupts?
2013-03-18T21:19:10 < ossifrage> oh, things are working just fine most of the time, this isn't a frequent error
2013-03-18T21:19:28 < sterna1> alright, so it happens randomly?
2013-03-18T21:20:00 < ossifrage> well not randomly, I need to send a bunch of data to get it to happen
2013-03-18T21:20:36 < sterna1> perhaps the uart interrupt is too slow?
2013-03-18T21:20:47 < ossifrage> the uart interrupt is fairly short, way shorter then the byte time and it should be the highest priority (0)
2013-03-18T21:21:13 < ossifrage> I'm reading a chain of encoders with anyother usart
2013-03-18T21:21:23 < ossifrage> it is the encoder code that causes the underruns
2013-03-18T21:21:48 < ossifrage> the encoder is at priority 13<<4 and the host is at 0
2013-03-18T21:22:19 < sterna1> weird
2013-03-18T21:22:29 < sterna1> have you tried using DMA for uart transfers?
2013-03-18T21:22:58 < ossifrage> not yet, I might but the uart rates aren't that high, so I didn't think it was needed
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2013-03-18T21:23:33 < ossifrage> I need to figure out why this is happening first, DMAs for the uart can come later, I'm using the DMAs for timers and ADC
2013-03-18T21:25:02 < sterna1> ok
2013-03-18T21:26:27 < ossifrage> but the encoder interrupt is fairly long every N interrupts (lots of bit twiddling)
2013-03-18T21:27:36 < ossifrage> the neat thing is even with it running at only 50 bytes/s it still triggers overruns
2013-03-18T21:27:53 < ossifrage> but it I turn it off everything is fine.
2013-03-18T21:28:47 < sterna1> do you know if overrun happens at those every N interrupts?
2013-03-18T21:29:07 < ossifrage> the usart is being fed by a USB serial device, so the data comes in bursts, but still ~1000 instructions per byte
2013-03-18T21:29:23 < ossifrage> I haven't come up with a way to figure that out
2013-03-18T21:29:49 < ossifrage> I only know about the overrun when I get to the usart interrupt
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2013-03-18T21:32:28 < sterna1> well, I suppose if you did use DMA, you would probably solve the problems with overruns
2013-03-18T21:32:39 < sterna1> but I guess it doesn't solve the root problem...
2013-03-18T21:33:09 < ossifrage> exactly, and I have a bunch of other stuff to add that will do the same thing
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2013-03-19T01:57:35 < mtbg> hi
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2013-03-19T02:20:29 < sterna1> hmm, is this valid c-code:
2013-03-19T02:20:33 < sterna1> 2**top
2013-03-19T02:20:45 < zyp> no
2013-03-19T02:20:51 < sterna1> I want to take the value of pointer top and multiply it
2013-03-19T02:20:59 < zyp> ah, of course
2013-03-19T02:21:08 < sterna1> it compiles with no warnings
2013-03-19T02:21:10 < zyp> that would be valid
2013-03-19T02:21:25 < zyp> I was thinking of a ** operator for pow() like python has
2013-03-19T02:21:32 < sterna1> and it should do what i want, right?
2013-03-19T02:21:47 < zyp> C has no ** operator, but you can combine binary * and unary * like that, yes
2013-03-19T02:22:02 < zyp> I would write it as «2 * *top» to make it more readable
2013-03-19T02:22:13 < sterna1> true
2013-03-19T02:22:25 < mtbg> I'd make a space between the asterisks though, just to improve readibility
2013-03-19T02:22:30 < sterna1> would 2***top would also be valid, if top is a multidimensional pointer?
2013-03-19T02:22:37 < mtbg> oh
2013-03-19T02:22:41 < mtbg> zyp already said that
2013-03-19T02:22:43 < zyp> yes
2013-03-19T02:22:53 < sterna1> beacues that would be fun to write on an exam or so
2013-03-19T02:22:59 < zyp> :)
2013-03-19T02:23:01 < dongs> if you had a job and you wrote code like this witout proper spacing or parenthesis you would be fired.
2013-03-19T02:23:15 < zyp> sterna1, have you heard about the «goes toward»-operator?
2013-03-19T02:23:30 < sterna1> hmm, actually no
2013-03-19T02:24:16 < zyp> i = 5; while(i --> 0) …
2013-03-19T02:24:26 < dongs> what
2013-03-19T02:24:34 < dongs> is that some gngu extension
2013-03-19T02:24:39 < zyp> no, it's a joke
2013-03-19T02:24:42 < mtbg> :>
2013-03-19T02:24:55 < sterna1> should that be like, i-- >0
2013-03-19T02:24:55 < zyp> I mean, it's a clever combination of decrement and greater than
2013-03-19T02:25:17 < sterna1> but I agree it looks nice
2013-03-19T02:25:18 < zyp> it results in the loop executing for i = 4..0
2013-03-19T02:25:25 < sterna1> there are loads of funny things you can do in C
2013-03-19T02:25:29 < dongs> sounds like the kinda trash pythonfags would use
2013-03-19T02:25:30 < sterna1> duffs device for instance
2013-03-19T02:25:55 < zyp> dongs, nobody would use it in production code
2013-03-19T02:26:19 < dongs> oh its just valid C just laurenceb-style formatting
2013-03-19T02:26:25 < dongs> while (i-- > 0) or whatever
2013-03-19T02:26:28 < zyp> yes
2013-03-19T02:26:31 < dongs> right, k
2013-03-19T02:26:31 < Tectu> dat I²C   http://www.abload.de/img/20121208_372817ksu17.png
2013-03-19T02:26:44 < dongs> Tectu: bmps getting assembled today unless shit happens
2013-03-19T02:26:52 < zyp> I hear it's a fun question to give on job interviews
2013-03-19T02:27:01 < sterna1> Tectu: nice curves :)
2013-03-19T02:27:07 < zyp> «Explain what this code does: while(i --> 0)»
2013-03-19T02:27:57 < Tectu> sterna1, :<
2013-03-19T02:28:18 < sterna1> I've actually seen a pulse like that a couple of days ago
2013-03-19T02:28:23 < sterna1> no idea how it happened
2013-03-19T02:29:02 < Tectu> what scenario was it?
2013-03-19T02:29:41 < zyp> looks like something tries to drive high while something else tries to drive low
2013-03-19T02:29:43 < sterna1> I don't remember
2013-03-19T02:30:23 < Tectu> sterna1, I've been way more suprised by this scoping of an I²C:   http://www.abload.de/img/20121208_371809k1zqs.png
2013-03-19T02:30:31 < zyp> my bet is bitbanged i2c on a mcu without open drain mode, and a bug in changing between highz and low
2013-03-19T02:30:58 < sterna1> that last one I've seen
2013-03-19T02:30:59 < dongs> needs another transition on the other side and it'll look like middle finger
2013-03-19T02:31:01 < Tectu> zyp, the pins are in open drain mode
2013-03-19T02:31:15 < sterna1> probably due to inductance in wires
2013-03-19T02:31:22 < Tectu> thanks dongs
2013-03-19T02:31:25 < dongs> openDONG mode
2013-03-19T02:33:34 < zyp> Tectu, no, it's not
2013-03-19T02:33:42 < zyp> Tectu, the master is doing push-pull mode
2013-03-19T02:33:52 < Tectu> zyp, I'll recheck
2013-03-19T02:34:11 < Tectu> zyp, when I put them into opendrain, then change to AF(4), do I have to re-write the open drain? o.O
2013-03-19T02:34:15 < Tectu> I mean, does the order matter?
2013-03-19T02:34:24 < gxti> there's an ADC i used that has SPI, but it also had an address in the first byte so it acted sort of like i2c. i forgot about that and was getting runts on the scope like that (but lower level), you could see it trying to respond. was amusing once i figured it out.
2013-03-19T02:34:29 < zyp> Tectu, which chip?
2013-03-19T02:35:38 < Tectu> zyp, STM32F407 (discovery kit)
2013-03-19T02:36:36 < dongs> are you buttbanging or using i2c peripehral?
2013-03-19T02:36:49 < Tectu> i2c peripherial
2013-03-19T02:36:51 < dongs> cuz once youre in af GPIO settings don't have any effect I thought?
2013-03-19T02:37:12 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-19T02:37:13 < mtbg> did you set MODER accordingly?
2013-03-19T02:37:17 < zyp> what is the slave?
2013-03-19T02:37:27 < Tectu> zyp a touchscreen controller - STMPE811
2013-03-19T02:37:36 < GargantuaSauce> could that be scl and sda mixed up and the slave trying to hold the clock low?
2013-03-19T02:37:56 < dongs> ASS-Touch®
2013-03-19T02:37:57 < zyp> that's not a bad guess
2013-03-19T02:38:01 < Tectu> GargantuaSauce, it's "premade" hardware. It's the STM32F4-Discovery add-on thing, the BB and the LCD
2013-03-19T02:38:08 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-19T02:38:18 < Tectu> and since their software works, I'm quite sure they didn't mix it up :D
2013-03-19T02:38:38 < GargantuaSauce> mkay
2013-03-19T02:38:51 < zyp> right, so you are just somehow fucking up then
2013-03-19T02:38:59 < dongs> no surprise there
2013-03-19T02:39:15 < GargantuaSauce> internal pullup set?
2013-03-19T02:39:30 < Tectu> well, here's the code I use (ChibiOS/RT)  http://forum.chibios.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1030&p=9667#p9667
2013-03-19T02:39:43 < Tectu> I²C mode looks good as well
2013-03-19T02:39:52 < dongs> oh CHIBIPOS
2013-03-19T02:40:02 < zyp> where do you set AF mode on pins?
2013-03-19T02:40:04 < Tectu> GargantuaSauce, internal pull-up? Do I need to do that explicit when I set it to AF 4?
2013-03-19T02:40:16 < GargantuaSauce> i think so
2013-03-19T02:40:19 < zyp> I mean, where do you set OD mode?
2013-03-19T02:41:10 < zyp> pullups is not the problem, the edges wouldn't be so steep if there weren't proper pullups
2013-03-19T02:41:50 < zyp> (unless masked by PP mode of course, but then it's not relevant)
2013-03-19T02:42:17 < Tectu> zyp, it's done in the board files of chibios
2013-03-19T02:42:50 < zyp> well, you are doing it wrong.
2013-03-19T02:43:09 < zyp> I don't know how, but the master is in PP mode.
2013-03-19T02:45:05 < Tectu> can you explain to me how you see that? I don't understand how you see that.
2013-03-19T02:45:35 < zyp> http://www.abload.de/img/20121208_372817ksu17.png <- there
2013-03-19T02:46:14 < Tectu> yes, but which aspect of the picture does tell you that
2013-03-19T02:46:19 < zyp> the master is sending 0x82, and when the slave is trying to ACK it's not able to pull low properly
2013-03-19T02:46:29 < Tectu> interesting
2013-03-19T02:47:02 < zyp> and that would happen if master is simultanously driving high, causing a voltage-divider like effect between each side's drive strength
2013-03-19T02:48:12 < Tectu> hmm
2013-03-19T02:48:34 < zyp> https://github.com/mabl/ChibiOS/blob/master/os/hal/platforms/STM32/GPIOv2/pal_lld.c#L163
2013-03-19T02:49:11 < zyp> this thing seems to always be overwriting the OTYPER register, regardless of what the mode parameter is
2013-03-19T02:50:03 < zyp> and that's the function that gets called when you call palSetPadMode()
2013-03-19T02:50:15 < zyp> so you still have to repeat there that you want it to be OD
2013-03-19T02:50:26 < zyp> because otherwise that function is setting it back to PP
2013-03-19T02:50:32 < Tectu> thanks for the hint, let me try!
2013-03-19T02:51:35 < Tectu> zyp, OTYPE OpenDrain, right?    PAL_STM32_OTYPE_OPENDRAIN
2013-03-19T02:51:46 < zyp> probably
2013-03-19T02:52:11 < zyp> also, that's a pretty horrible API and an even worse implementation
2013-03-19T02:52:13 < dongs> OPENBRAIN
2013-03-19T02:52:15 < Tectu> so I set to AF4 and then to Opendrain?
2013-03-19T02:52:34 < Tectu> zyp, I cannot really disagree
2013-03-19T02:53:17 < GargantuaSauce> i was using chibios until i saw its io stuff and nope'd outta there
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2013-03-19T02:53:46 < zyp> who the fuck loops through all pins, setting a bit in each of all the gpio registers at a time?
2013-03-19T02:54:12 < Tectu> Giovanni, I'd say
2013-03-19T02:54:38 < zyp> I used to think he had a clue
2013-03-19T02:54:48 < zyp> but now I'm not so sure
2013-03-19T02:55:29 < Tectu> I guess, but really just guessing, the PAL stuff is quite the oldest thing in the entire project :D
2013-03-19T02:55:47 < Tectu> so I'm sure he'd do it differently today
2013-03-19T02:55:52 < zyp> that doesn't justify the implementation
2013-03-19T02:57:52 < dongs> HAL stuff is aids anyway
2013-03-19T02:57:59 < dongs> do your RTOS shit and get out of my hardware
2013-03-19T02:58:27 < dongs> zyp: i trolled a ex-yahoo guy with goes toward
2013-03-19T02:58:40 < dongs> he went off into how its CLR or C# or some newfag C++11 abortion
2013-03-19T02:58:46 < dongs> until i was like hey, why dont you read it again
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2013-03-19T02:59:32 < zyp> that's why it's interesting to pull it at job interviews
2013-03-19T03:00:24 < GargantuaSauce> goes toward?
2013-03-19T03:00:40 < zyp> 01:24:16 < zyp> i = 5; while(i --> 0) …
2013-03-19T03:01:02 < GargantuaSauce> oh yeah
2013-03-19T03:01:48 < zyp> Tectu, so, did it fix it?
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2013-03-19T03:02:59 < Tectu> zyp, I'm now setting it to OPENDRAIN mode explicit. When I do it after I set it to AF4, I don't see anything on the scope anymore and when I set it opendrain before I set it to AF4, the same issue
2013-03-19T03:03:07 < Tectu> maybe I just misunderstood you
2013-03-19T03:03:17 < zyp> uh
2013-03-19T03:03:24 < zyp> well, that's obvious
2013-03-19T03:03:41 < zyp> when you set it to OD mode after AF, you are deselecting AF
2013-03-19T03:03:54 < zyp> you have to set both OD and AF in the same fucking call
2013-03-19T03:04:28 < Tectu> zyp, so I have to hack the chibios code? O.o
2013-03-19T03:04:38 < zyp> palSetPadMode(GPIOB, 8, PAL_MODE_ALTERNATE(4) | PAL_STM32_OTYPE_OPENDRAIN);
2013-03-19T03:04:42 < Tectu> aaah
2013-03-19T03:08:16 < Tectu> zyp, http://www.abload.de/img/20121208_38144523jw1.png
2013-03-19T03:08:37 < Tectu> zyp, 1. are those curvy curves good? 2. why is the clock before the actual SDA stuff?
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2013-03-19T03:08:53 < Tectu> how can one get that out of an I²C peripherial?
2013-03-19T03:09:08 < zyp> 01:41:09 < zyp> pullups is not the problem, the edges wouldn't be so steep if there weren't proper pullups
2013-03-19T03:09:11 < zyp> 01:41:50 < zyp> (unless masked by PP mode of course, but then it's not relevant)
2013-03-19T03:09:21 < zyp> so yeah, now you don't have proper pullups.
2013-03-19T03:09:58 < zyp> (why the fuck doesn't your hardware have some external pullup resistors?)
2013-03-19T03:10:09 < Tectu> that.s a good question.
2013-03-19T03:10:17 < zyp> but ok, just enable the internal ones
2013-03-19T03:10:24 < Tectu> let's see how to do that :D
2013-03-19T03:11:02 < Tectu> PAL_STM32_PUDR_PULLUP   I assume
2013-03-19T03:11:16 < zyp> yes
2013-03-19T03:12:08 < Tectu> zyp, it dosen't really look different
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2013-03-19T03:14:02 < Tectu> zyp, how comes the clock is before the SDA?
2013-03-19T03:14:36 < zyp> I have no idea, but it doesn't matter until you've fixed your pullup problems
2013-03-19T03:15:19 < zyp> are you sure it's not your scope that's using different trigger points for scl and sda?
2013-03-19T03:15:39 < zyp> because I don't trust your scope.
2013-03-19T03:16:02 < Tectu> I don't do either, but you're right - it's late
2013-03-19T03:16:11 < Tectu> I thank you very much for your tips, hints and pointers
2013-03-19T03:17:00 < zyp> if the internal pullups didn't help I can only suggest adding external pullups
2013-03-19T03:17:52 < GargantuaSauce> i just think the hal is doin' it wrong, i'm using the internal pullups for i2c on my f4 and it works fine
2013-03-19T03:17:56 < Tectu> zyp, I'll try that tomorrow!
2013-03-19T03:21:17 < zyp> GargantuaSauce, code seems to be correct, unless Tectu managed to fuck up the call again
2013-03-19T03:21:38 < zyp> but yes, it should make a difference
2013-03-19T03:22:02 < Tectu> zyp, the strange thing was a trigger issue indeed
2013-03-19T03:22:34 < Tectu> palSetPadMode(GPIOB, 8, PAL_MODE_ALTERNATE(4) | PAL_STM32_OTYPE_OPENDRAIN | PAL_STM32_PUDR_PULLUP);
2013-03-19T03:22:40 < Tectu> palSetPadMode(GPIOB, 9, PAL_MODE_ALTERNATE(4) | PAL_STM32_OTYPE_OPENDRAIN | PAL_STM32_PUDR_PULLUP);
2013-03-19T03:22:47 < zyp> looks correct to me
2013-03-19T03:23:29 < Tectu> :<
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2013-03-19T11:08:37 < Robint91> hi all
2013-03-19T11:10:05 < dongs> blogging on blogs
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2013-03-19T14:11:40 < qyx_> "External memory via FSMC supports up to 60 MHz,"
2013-03-19T14:11:44 < qyx_> is that true on F4?
2013-03-19T14:12:12 < zyp> only 60 MHz?
2013-03-19T14:12:29 < Laurenceb> 84mhz
2013-03-19T14:12:33 < qyx_> foudn that on my.st.com, i have to look in datasheet
2013-03-19T14:12:55 < zyp> 60 sounds like F2
2013-03-19T14:12:56 < qyx_> actually i am trying to find some devboard with f4 and 512K/1MB sram
2013-03-19T14:13:03 < qyx_> or better
2013-03-19T14:13:07 < zyp> looked at the waveshare ones?
2013-03-19T14:13:09 < qyx_> zyp: how's your board?
2013-03-19T14:13:15 < Laurenceb> for lunix?
2013-03-19T14:13:41 < zyp> haven't tried FSMC yet, but the board seems nice enough
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2013-03-19T14:14:17 < qyx_> not for lunex
2013-03-19T14:14:39 < qyx_> zyp: i meant that one with lpc4357
2013-03-19T14:15:01 < zyp> ah
2013-03-19T14:15:08 < zyp> haven't touched that lately either
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2013-03-19T14:15:18 < qyx_> :(
2013-03-19T14:15:32 < zyp> will get around to it some time
2013-03-19T14:15:41 < qyx_> so for 84MHz 10/12ns sram should be ok
2013-03-19T14:15:54 < Laurenceb> http://www.zazzle.co.uk/lunix_is_illegal_shirt-235522946466975602
2013-03-19T14:21:57 < Erlkoenig> wat o.O
2013-03-19T14:22:10 < Erlkoenig> does dongs work there?
2013-03-19T14:22:11 < Tectu> zyp, got my I²C finally working
2013-03-19T14:22:24 < Tectu> Erlkoenig, lol'd
2013-03-19T14:22:40 < Tectu> zyp, I soldered some 10k pull-up resistors to the board - no change, with 4k7 it works like a charm o.O
2013-03-19T14:23:22 < Tectu> Erlkoenig, totally looks like dongs http://rlv.zcache.co.uk/isapi/designall.dll?rlvnet=1&realview=113262907634849483&design=20cfe37a-1a32-4082-b6ac-04f0c352b67e&style=anvil_womens_value_heavyweight_tank_815&size=a_l&color=black&pending=false&pdt=zazzle_shirt&max_dim=512
2013-03-19T14:23:57 < Erlkoenig> hmm
2013-03-19T14:24:07 < qyx_> you mean language or person?
2013-03-19T14:24:13 < qyx_> dongstalk
2013-03-19T14:25:10 < Erlkoenig> retardation alarm: ARM: "oh let's make a script to build the Compiler toolchain but lets make sure it only works on a 32bit-Machine"
2013-03-19T14:25:49 < Tectu> Erlkoenig, I know that feeling...
2013-03-19T14:26:01 < jpa-> Erlkoenig: i doubt they made that sure
2013-03-19T14:26:09 < Erlkoenig> replaced BUILD=i686   by BUILD=`arch`     .... let's see whether that works
2013-03-19T14:26:23 < jpa-> oh, so you may need to *gasp* modify a script
2013-03-19T14:26:26 < jpa-> sounds horrible
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2013-03-19T14:26:50 < Erlkoenig> funnily some tools are still built for 64bit, and some library for 32bit => failure to link
2013-03-19T14:27:04 < karlp> huh, arch is a separate command
2013-03-19T14:27:12 < karlp> uname -m is what I've normally used.
2013-03-19T14:27:30 < Erlkoenig> "arch - print machine hardware name (same as uname -m)"
2013-03-19T14:27:46 < karlp> yeah, I just didn't know there was a whole command for it :)
2013-03-19T14:27:59 < Erlkoenig> now it compiles...
2013-03-19T14:28:04 < karlp> Erlkoenig: what are you compiling?
2013-03-19T14:28:12 < Erlkoenig> gcc-arm-embedded
2013-03-19T14:28:26 < Erlkoenig> these fools did "--disable-lto" in their buildscript so i enabled it
2013-03-19T14:28:26 < karlp> if you're rebuilding g-a-e, note that their notes are so that they can build on one machine and have it run on many many machines
2013-03-19T14:28:36 < karlp> hehe, you're game.
2013-03-19T14:28:48 < karlp> hope you're compiling witha  version of gcc with the lto bugs all fixed....
2013-03-19T14:28:57 < Erlkoenig> well i guess LTO should be very useful for platforms with few memory... such as a µC
2013-03-19T14:29:07 < karlp> any reason you're rebuilding it?
2013-03-19T14:29:13 < Erlkoenig> yes to get LTO enabled
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2013-03-19T14:30:47 < Erlkoenig> gcc version 4.7.3
2013-03-19T14:31:06 < zyp> I don't think LTO helps much if your code is already inlining stuff that should be inlined
2013-03-19T14:32:58 < Erlkoenig> yeah that's exactly the point - it does not
2013-03-19T14:33:19 < zyp> «I want LTO because my code sucks»
2013-03-19T14:33:21 < Erlkoenig> and some guy in ##c++ recommended me to try LTO
2013-03-19T14:33:22 < zyp> :)
2013-03-19T14:33:32 < Erlkoenig> the code was designed to take advandage of inlining
2013-03-19T14:33:36 < Erlkoenig> but gcc does not inline it
2013-03-19T14:33:53 < Erlkoenig> so it gets big and slow
2013-03-19T14:34:33 < zyp> what makes you think LTO is going to help when the code you want is in the same translation unit anyway then?
2013-03-19T14:35:55 < Erlkoenig> i hope it can take advantage of construcor arguments to global "extern" variables
2013-03-19T14:37:46 < jpa-> Erlkoenig: be aware that LTO in GCC still seems to be a bit buggy from time to time
2013-03-19T14:38:13 < jpa-> (or then there could be just hidden bugs in my code that get exposed by more aggressive optimization..)
2013-03-19T14:38:43 < Erlkoenig> if i put these instances into .h files as "const className instanceName (1, 2, 3, 4);" gcc inlines everything and it works fine - but it allocates memory for every instance on every inclusion of the .h into a source file. if i mark them as "extern" space is allocated only once, but it's not inlined anymore
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2013-03-19T14:39:14 < zyp> well, of course it does
2013-03-19T14:39:39 < zyp> you have to mark it static, to tell the compiler it's local to your translation unit
2013-03-19T14:39:56 < zyp> otherwise the compiler has to emit them because it can't know they won't be used for other translation units
2013-03-19T14:40:39 < Erlkoenig> then space is allocated n times and it just doesn't get any name
2013-03-19T14:41:01 < zyp> it's not allocated if it's inlined
2013-03-19T14:41:22 < Erlkoenig> not everything is inlined here
2013-03-19T14:41:49 < zyp> of course it's not, you are doing it wrong
2013-03-19T14:42:20 < Erlkoenig> okay
2013-03-19T14:42:21 < jpa-> IMO it does seem like an actual problem that could be solved by LTO
2013-03-19T14:42:31 < Erlkoenig> how to do it correctly?
2013-03-19T14:42:40 < zyp> mark everything static
2013-03-19T14:42:53 < Erlkoenig> then space is allocated n times and it just doesn't get any name
2013-03-19T14:43:04 < zyp> what is n?
2013-03-19T14:43:07 < jpa-> zyp: but if there is e.g. large data inside that const instance, it is stored multiple times
2013-03-19T14:43:14 < Erlkoenig> number of .cc files including my .h file
2013-03-19T14:43:18 < zyp> no.
2013-03-19T14:43:40 < zyp> even if it's not inlined, it's not emitted unless it's referenced
2013-03-19T14:43:52 < jpa-> but if it is referenced
2013-03-19T14:44:05 < jpa-> from multiple files, then there will be unnecessary copies
2013-03-19T14:44:58 < zyp> unless it's inlined
2013-03-19T14:45:43 < jpa-> yeah, but if the same class contains both small, inlined functions and large, not inlined functions, then it becomes a problem
2013-03-19T14:46:03 < zyp> class? aren't we talking about .data now?
2013-03-19T14:46:34 < jpa-> i thought it is a class with a const instance (so .text)
2013-03-19T14:46:55 < Bird|lappy> const instance, wouldn't that be .rodata?
2013-03-19T14:47:13 < jpa-> well .rodata then, if it is a separate section
2013-03-19T14:47:28 < zyp> well, .data or .rodata is same in this aspect
2013-03-19T14:48:05 < jpa-> doesn't .rodata go into .text?
2013-03-19T14:48:10 < jpa-> i.e. to flash
2013-03-19T14:48:27 < zyp> sections vs segments, etc…
2013-03-19T14:49:38 < Bird|lappy> jpa-, .rodata goes to flash
2013-03-19T14:50:15 < Bird|lappy> but its generally treated as a seperate section (which is important if you have a MPU which can prevent the processor from trying to treat the contents of .rodata as machine code ;)
2013-03-19T14:50:18 < zyp> .rodata goes wherever you tell it to go in the linker script
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2013-03-19T15:02:38 < dongs> hmm some dumb company wants binary firmware license for some crap  I wrote to do interface conversion I wonder how much I should bill them for it
2013-03-19T15:02:48 < dongs> they're obviosuly just reselling it to someone else at a higher price tho
2013-03-19T15:03:29 < jpa-> one hundred million dollars
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2013-03-19T15:05:08  * Laurenceb just paid £3K for 1 year firmware license for some kit..
2013-03-19T15:05:36 < Laurenceb> im gunna try haxoring it
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2013-03-19T15:06:43 < donigs> yeah
2013-03-19T15:06:46 < donigs> i was thikning 3k minimum
2013-03-19T15:07:05 < jpa-> Laurenceb moral :)
2013-03-19T15:07:56 < Laurenceb> they ripped me off, i rip them off
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2013-03-19T15:11:35 < jpa-> so was it for hobby or for work?
2013-03-19T15:11:46 < dongs> k 3k it is
2013-03-19T15:12:48 <+Steffanx>  /year dongs?
2013-03-19T15:14:01 < Erlkoenig> hm, just #including my .h file from an empty source file results in more .data and .text usage - #including it from other source files does not (all without lto now)
2013-03-19T15:14:03 < donigs> no just one time, these faggots arent even gonna make it to MP never mind yearly license
2013-03-19T15:16:11 < Tectu> Laurenceb, what/which kit?
2013-03-19T15:16:28 < Laurenceb> lab stuff
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2013-03-19T15:16:52 < Tectu> like?
2013-03-19T15:17:34 < jpa-> like stuff that Laurenceb makes money with, but is too cheap to pay for
2013-03-19T15:17:43 <+Steffanx> Very secret stuff Tectu. Or he is just to ashamed to tell you what software Tectu
2013-03-19T15:17:53 < Laurenceb> correct
2013-03-19T15:17:53 < Tectu> Steffanx, I bet it's matlab
2013-03-19T15:18:00 < Laurenceb> fails
2013-03-19T15:18:03 < jpa-> matlab is often more than 3k :P
2013-03-19T15:18:05 < Laurenceb> use octave
2013-03-19T15:18:09 <+Steffanx> octave is SLOOOOW
2013-03-19T15:18:13 <+Steffanx> python too btw
2013-03-19T15:18:17 < Tectu> matlab is java...
2013-03-19T15:18:21 < jpa-> Tectu: is not
2013-03-19T15:18:28 <+Steffanx> The IDE is
2013-03-19T15:18:33 < Tectu> jpa-, IDE is
2013-03-19T15:18:36 < Tectu>  ^
2013-03-19T15:18:48 < jpa-> Steffanx: don't use for loops :)
2013-03-19T15:19:06 <+Steffanx> I tried, but i am unable to make something functional without the loop
2013-03-19T15:19:35 <+Steffanx> That's not true. It's functional, but it doesn't give the right results :)
2013-03-19T15:20:38 < BrainDamage> with matlab you're supposed to string together the builtin functions with minimal code from your side
2013-03-19T15:20:48 < BrainDamage> if your problem cannot be reduced to that, change language
2013-03-19T15:21:43 <+Steffanx> I was talking about python btw BrainDamage. :)
2013-03-19T15:23:36 < Laurenceb> you're supposed to vectorise it
2013-03-19T15:23:52 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: the same applies
2013-03-19T15:23:59 <+Steffanx> lol
2013-03-19T15:24:18 < BrainDamage> the builtin functions are magnitudes faster than the interpreted/jit compiled code
2013-03-19T15:24:24 <+Steffanx> The same applies for C++/C and assembly as well?
2013-03-19T15:24:28 < BrainDamage> no
2013-03-19T15:24:46 < zyp> BrainDamage, not only builtin, but also numpy
2013-03-19T15:25:02 <+Steffanx> Yeah, that's why i try to use. Numpy
2013-03-19T15:25:13 <+Steffanx> but my python skills leven is < 0 :)
2013-03-19T15:25:13 < BrainDamage> yes, by builtin I include all native code libs
2013-03-19T15:25:19 <+Steffanx> *level
2013-03-19T15:25:31 < zyp> having numpy doing a multiplication to every element in an array is way faster than iterating the array and multiplying each element
2013-03-19T15:25:39 < zyp> and so on
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2013-03-19T15:30:21 < Erlkoenig> oohps i failed (prev message - the nonempty files already #included the .h file indirectly)... well now i am sure: #including a .h file with my constants increases .text and .data size, regardless of whether the instances are declared "static" or not
2013-03-19T15:31:04 < zyp> at which optimization level?
2013-03-19T15:31:13 < zyp> even if none of the objects aren't referenced?
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2013-03-19T15:31:35 < zyp> are*
2013-03-19T15:31:50 < Erlkoenig> -O2
2013-03-19T15:32:06 < Erlkoenig> yes, as i said my source file is empty except the #include
2013-03-19T15:33:28 < Erlkoenig> oh shit
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2013-03-19T15:34:40 < Laurenceb> if i set a pwm CCR to zero, do i get one timer period or zero pulse width?
2013-03-19T15:34:45 < Erlkoenig> the inreased code size comes from a constructor like this: "className instanceName (frequency);" where frequency is an "extern uint32_t" declared in some source file much later... totally forgot about that one... if just put a constant in there .text & .data sizes shrink even more
2013-03-19T15:35:01 < dongs> < starno> dongs: derprap.com is available
2013-03-19T15:35:08 < dongs> if only I could figure out how to monetize tarduino.cc
2013-03-19T15:35:09 < Laurenceb> lol
2013-03-19T15:35:14 < dongs> i'd be all over that one
2013-03-19T15:35:39 < jpa-> Laurenceb: it depends on if your mode is pwm1 or pwm2
2013-03-19T15:35:40 < Laurenceb> if i set a pwm CCR to zero, do i get one timer period or zero pulse width? <- dongs?
2013-03-19T15:35:43 < Laurenceb> ah
2013-03-19T15:36:07 < zyp> zero pulse width
2013-03-19T15:36:11 < zyp> read the RM
2013-03-19T15:36:11 < Laurenceb> pwm2
2013-03-19T15:36:13 < Laurenceb> ok
2013-03-19T15:36:13 < zyp> it has graphs
2013-03-19T15:36:27 < jpa-> rtfrm
2013-03-19T15:36:31 < Laurenceb> lolz
2013-03-19T15:36:37 < Erlkoenig> dongs: just sell "high-quality-"arduinos for 150$ on ebay
2013-03-19T15:37:05 < zyp> make an arduino powered wheelchair controller
2013-03-19T15:37:05 < Laurenceb> so fraction=(float)CCR/(float)(ARR+1 ) ?
2013-03-19T15:37:19 < Laurenceb> lol zyp
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2013-03-19T15:44:24 < Laurenceb> http://assets.vice.com/content-images/article/dnd1376/3b30137caac95a280be0e9f35c13ba1f_vice_390.jpg
2013-03-19T15:44:27 < Laurenceb> attn dongs
2013-03-19T15:45:04 < Erlkoenig> probably his master commanded him to do that
2013-03-19T15:46:55 < Tectu> so stuff doesn't work properly here and I'm a bit confused so, I'm understanding this right:  When I want to write the value 0xAA into the register 0x42 of an I²C slave, I first write    0x42, then 0xAA to him, correctly?
2013-03-19T15:48:46 < zyp> yes
2013-03-19T15:48:52 < Tectu> good, thanks.
2013-03-19T15:56:56 < trepidaciousMBR> Is it possible to trigger STM32F4 one pulse mode by software rather than an external input?
2013-03-19T15:58:13 < zyp> I think so
2013-03-19T15:58:24 < zyp> check the RM
2013-03-19T16:01:23 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: it is
2013-03-19T16:02:13 < Tectu> is one supposed to check for an ACK of the slave after every i2c transmission when you're initialising some chip with 20 register writes?
2013-03-19T16:03:01 < zyp> the hardware does that for you
2013-03-19T16:03:10 < zyp> you'll get the error interrupt if you get a NAK
2013-03-19T16:03:19 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: there is a trigger generation bit in EGR, for example
2013-03-19T16:03:36 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: or IIRC if you just don't configure any trigger it will start automatically when you set CEN
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2013-03-19T16:04:07 < jpa-> Tectu: note that in chibios you will get panics ("invalid state") if you don't handle errors from i2c
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2013-03-19T16:04:24 < Tectu> jpa-, oh, didn't know that. Thanks!
2013-03-19T16:04:28 < Tectu> how comes?
2013-03-19T16:04:39 < jpa-> it's just the way it works
2013-03-19T16:04:40 < Tectu> shouldn't the kernel not be interested into the I²C peripherial errors at all?
2013-03-19T16:04:54 < zyp> jpa-, I'd say it's the way it doesn't work :)
2013-03-19T16:05:11 < jpa-> the HAL layer disables the I2C after error, and if you try to execute another command while i2c is disabled it hits an assert
2013-03-19T16:05:13 < Tectu> I'm not understanding why the kernel should panic
2013-03-19T16:05:29 < Tectu> well, shouldn't it be possible to handle this properly?
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2013-03-19T16:05:35 < jpa-> Tectu: well panic is just the chibios way to handle failed asserts
2013-03-19T16:05:48 < jpa-> Tectu: sure, you check the error return and restart i2c if any error happens
2013-03-19T16:05:51 < Tectu> I mean when you have a device, and maybe an I²C wire connection and the user unpluggs the wire, your device crashes?
2013-03-19T16:06:10 < Tectu> meh
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2013-03-19T16:06:50 < jpa-> https://svn.kapsi.fi/jpa/sphere2/src_common/sensor_task.c   for example check_i2c_state()  there.. (note that it only works because i don't execute another command before it)
2013-03-19T16:07:12 < jpa-> Tectu: the only other way it could work is that it would just give you corrupted data.. which is not good either
2013-03-19T16:07:36 < Tectu> jpa-, I understand
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2013-03-19T16:16:55 < Tectu> Laurenceb, 4chan down
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2013-03-19T16:17:26 < Laurenceb> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo
2013-03-19T16:17:41 < Laurenceb> up for me
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2013-03-19T16:19:17 < Tectu> ah, it's back
2013-03-19T16:28:39 < Laurenceb> fap tiem for Tectu
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2013-03-19T16:29:43 < Tectu> yes, but quickly, gf arrives in 5minutes
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2013-03-19T16:30:05 < Laurenceb> yaman
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2013-03-19T17:02:35 < Erlkoenig> "are you SURE your code is better than ST's periphal library? I doubt that you are able to be better than ST's developers"
2013-03-19T17:03:05 <+Steffanx> Who wrote that Erlkoenig ?
2013-03-19T17:04:04 < Erlkoenig> some guy told me yesteday for whom i am developing some STM32-based application, for which i kicked out the StdPeriph and wrote my own nice C++ lib
2013-03-19T17:04:32 < sterna1> lol
2013-03-19T17:05:07 <+Steffanx> Just ignore the ignorant bastard Erlkoenig
2013-03-19T17:05:30 < Erlkoenig> bwahaha... well not exactly his fault, he's just an E-Engineer :o)
2013-03-19T17:06:25 < jpa-> though you'll end up using a lot of time, while the benefit may not be as large
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2013-03-19T17:06:50 < jpa-> but being better than ST's software developers is not hard :)
2013-03-19T17:06:53 < Erlkoenig> the benefit is that the code looks good... enough of an argument for me
2013-03-19T17:07:02 < Erlkoenig> ha that's what i thought :D
2013-03-19T17:07:22 <+Steffanx> He has to write code for it too?
2013-03-19T17:07:41 < Erlkoenig> he wrote some for an other STM32 chip that is involved in the whole design
2013-03-19T17:08:32 <+Steffanx> Perhaps STM32 is easier because it lacks the fancy c++11 features :)
2013-03-19T17:08:58 < Erlkoenig> wat? i am using C++11 for that project
2013-03-19T17:09:12 <+Steffanx> Yes, isn't that what i said?
2013-03-19T17:09:21 <+Steffanx> oh *stm32 peripheral lib :P
2013-03-19T17:09:23 <+Steffanx> sorry
2013-03-19T17:09:30 < Erlkoenig> aah yes
2013-03-19T17:09:30 < jpa-> but beware of falling for the inner platform effect.. one of the annoying parts of stdperiph is that they made wrappers for everything.. just slightly different from the hardware so that you need to both read the reference manual *and* stdperiph manual to really know what it does
2013-03-19T17:09:46 <+Steffanx> Yes, isn't that the most wonderful prat of it jpa-
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2013-03-19T17:10:51 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx: well that fancy C++11 features are not very visible to the user... so it's not so difficult to use... thanks to cleaner API even easier i guess
2013-03-19T17:11:06 < jpa-> the most wonderful female genitals of it?
2013-03-19T17:11:55 < Erlkoenig> jpa-: hm what exactly do you mean... Where/How does StdPeriphal API differ from the hardware?
2013-03-19T17:12:27 < jpa-> Erlkoenig: everywhere
2013-03-19T17:13:02 <+Steffanx> jpa- and his useful answers today
2013-03-19T17:13:07 < Erlkoenig> argh :D
2013-03-19T17:13:10 < jpa-> (i mean the functions, not the register definitions only)
2013-03-19T17:13:14 < Erlkoenig> just like a very short example...?
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2013-03-19T17:14:33 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/QOj/plain   take for example this nice function
2013-03-19T17:15:02 < jpa-> now based on just the comments, what kind of parameters would you give to get the value of   PA7?
2013-03-19T17:15:23 < Erlkoenig> GPIOA, 17
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2013-03-19T17:15:34 < Erlkoenig> or GPIO_Pin_17 which is the same
2013-03-19T17:15:45 <+Steffanx> 17?
2013-03-19T17:15:47 < jpa-> now look at the code and think again :)
2013-03-19T17:15:56 < jpa-> (and yeah, 7 not 17)
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2013-03-19T17:16:14 < Erlkoenig> oohps
2013-03-19T17:16:20 < Erlkoenig> 17 lol :D
2013-03-19T17:16:26 < zyp> wouldn't the definition of GPIO_Pin_7 be (1 << 7)?
2013-03-19T17:16:29 < Erlkoenig> ah of course
2013-03-19T17:16:32 < jpa-> actually GPIO_Pin_7 = (1<<7) etc.
2013-03-19T17:16:34 < Erlkoenig> yes
2013-03-19T17:16:40 < Erlkoenig> okay i agree
2013-03-19T17:16:56 < zyp> the doc-comment is right in that regard
2013-03-19T17:17:22 < jpa-> and all that crap just to replace a simple   (GPIOA->IDR >> 7) & 1   
2013-03-19T17:17:56 < jpa-> the comment is right, just difficult to read right :)
2013-03-19T17:18:23 < Erlkoenig> hm, in my library it is   STM32::GPIO::PA7.getInput ()
2013-03-19T17:18:52 < zyp> return (GPIOx->IDR & GPIO_Pin) > 0;
2013-03-19T17:19:01 <+Steffanx> You use shift or capslock for that Erlkoenig ? :P
2013-03-19T17:19:13 < Erlkoenig> shift.
2013-03-19T17:19:34 < Erlkoenig> well STM32 and GPIO are abbreviations that are written in caps everywhere... so i decided to write them in caps too
2013-03-19T17:19:52 < zyp> I'm a bit curious about why you feel the need to have a STM32::GPIO namespace
2013-03-19T17:19:55 < Erlkoenig> (disabled capslock and replaced by compose key - capslock+t+m => ™)
2013-03-19T17:20:14 < zyp> it's not like you're going to have multiple GPIO namespaces at once, are there?
2013-03-19T17:20:27 < Erlkoenig> zyp: to not have all the PDxy for x in {A, .. E} and y in 0..15  in global namespace
2013-03-19T17:20:35 < Erlkoenig> well okay
2013-03-19T17:20:52 < Erlkoenig> i just found it "clean" to put the whole library into one namespace
2013-03-19T17:21:00 < Erlkoenig> if you don't like it, do "using namespace STM32;"
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2013-03-19T17:21:41 < jpa-> seems fine
2013-03-19T17:21:44 < zyp> when I get around to cleaning up my code, I'd write GPIOA[7].get()
2013-03-19T17:21:57 < zyp> currently PA7.get() works
2013-03-19T17:25:02 < zyp> ah, and then I still have to find a nice solution for the «seperate gpio and padmux» issue
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2013-03-19T17:28:02 < Tectu> what defines a weak pull-up? just the amount of resistance?
2013-03-19T17:28:04 < zyp> maybe just separate interfaces that may either be implemented on a single object or two separate objects
2013-03-19T17:28:07 < zyp> yes
2013-03-19T17:28:38 < Tectu> does anyone of you know who much the resistance of the STM32F4 internal pull-ups is?
2013-03-19T17:28:48 < jpa-> yes
2013-03-19T17:28:50 < jpa-> the datasheet
2013-03-19T17:28:51 < zyp> 50k IIRC
2013-03-19T17:28:57 < Tectu> my I²C works with externals, but not the internals and GargantuaSauce said it works for him
2013-03-19T17:29:04 < zyp> but I might be wrong by a few tenths of k
2013-03-19T17:29:11 < zyp> well
2013-03-19T17:29:13 < jpa-> huh, i2c is not supposed to work with internals
2013-03-19T17:29:23 < jpa-> i mean, not at any reasonable speed anyway
2013-03-19T17:29:38 < zyp> the required pull strength is dependant on capacitance
2013-03-19T17:29:51 < zyp> more capacitance on the bus = stronger pullups required
2013-03-19T17:30:17 < Tectu> ah, it's an I²C slave about 200mm to 300mm away from the master
2013-03-19T17:30:21 < Tectu> at 400kHz
2013-03-19T17:30:37 < zyp> remember that the signal lines are capacitors, and the lower resistance you have, the faster they are charging
2013-03-19T17:30:44 < Tectu> jep
2013-03-19T17:30:54 < Tectu> I didn't notice that the internal pullups were so weak
2013-03-19T17:31:13 < zyp> some capacitance come from the traces themselves, some capacitance comes from each device connected to the bus
2013-03-19T17:31:33 < zyp> so it's impossible to make a general «fits all» solution
2013-03-19T17:32:07 < Tectu> well, with 10k external it didn't work, but with 4k7 it works
2013-03-19T17:32:15 < Tectu> that's the thing that impresses me
2013-03-19T17:44:06 <+Steffanx> You are easy to impress Tectu
2013-03-19T17:48:25 < Tectu> is it possible that VGA cables are "set" to 75 Ohms?
2013-03-19T17:50:06 < Laurenceb> set?
2013-03-19T17:50:07 < qyx_> if you mean impedance of r, g, b, hsync, vsync lines, then it is
2013-03-19T17:50:41 < Tectu> qyx_, thanks!
2013-03-19T17:52:01 < qyx_> but not for sure!
2013-03-19T17:52:24 < Tectu> qyx_, last point in list  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA#Output_capabilities
2013-03-19T17:52:30 < qyx_> many long hight freq transmission signal (not power) lines are 75ohm
2013-03-19T17:52:44 < qyx_> if they are not differential
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2013-03-19T17:53:39 < Tectu> how comes the 75?
2013-03-19T17:53:41 < Tectu> mostly I see 50
2013-03-19T17:55:07 < zyp> tv is 75
2013-03-19T17:55:36 < zyp> and tv installations account for a sizable amount of common transmission lines
2013-03-19T17:56:46 < Tectu> hehe
2013-03-19T18:02:11 < BrainDamage> 75 and 50 stem off from a compromise between bandwith and losses
2013-03-19T18:02:26 < BrainDamage> in theory the optimum is a third number
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2013-03-19T18:02:39 < BrainDamage> those 2 are derived when you account also the cost
2013-03-19T18:03:54 < Tectu> huh? how is one better than the other? At impedance, you shouldn't have any additional resistance, no? The costs is clear
2013-03-19T18:04:16 < gxti> http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/why50ohms.cfm
2013-03-19T18:05:08 < Tectu> wtf is  .cfm
2013-03-19T18:05:19 < zyp> cold fusion markup language
2013-03-19T18:05:20 < gxti> cold fusion. sorry you asked.
2013-03-19T18:05:20 < BrainDamage> there's conduction attenuation
2013-03-19T18:05:36 < BrainDamage> and dielectric attenuation
2013-03-19T18:05:40 < zyp> ah, right
2013-03-19T18:05:49 < BrainDamage> pretending your cable isn't lossy, is a big lie
2013-03-19T18:06:01 < zyp> tv is 75 because it was cheap to make baluns to from the old 300ohm balanced stuff
2013-03-19T18:06:10 < gxti> long story short, 75 ohms is (nearly) optimal for minimizing loss (good for signal transmission)
2013-03-19T18:06:39 < gxti> the balun thing is a nice bonus but doesn't explain where 300 comes from, i don't know that :p
2013-03-19T18:07:04 < zyp> ever seen the old «ladder» tv cables?
2013-03-19T18:07:10 < BrainDamage> gxti: that article forgets to mention the bandwith capability of a coax cable
2013-03-19T18:07:20 < BrainDamage> that too fixes geometry
2013-03-19T18:07:28 < gxti> zyp: ya i know what they are, not why they're 300
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2013-03-19T18:08:08 < BrainDamage> also, most of the time, the limits of characteristic impedance are given from process capabilities
2013-03-19T18:08:25 < BrainDamage> due to the necessity of making one size much larger than the other
2013-03-19T18:08:34 < BrainDamage> ( or if you prefer, one much smaller )
2013-03-19T18:15:02 < Laurenceb> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/image-sensors/7141492/?origin=PSF_431037|fp&cm_sp=featureproducts-_-FeaturedProductsContent-_-7141492
2013-03-19T18:16:33 < jon1012> mhh
2013-03-19T18:16:36 < jon1012> on a gpio port
2013-03-19T18:16:49 < jon1012> someone knows how to wait for the ->ODR call to actually modify the port ?
2013-03-19T18:17:00 < jon1012> when I use -> BSRRH and BSRRL it's ok it works
2013-03-19T18:17:08 < jon1012> but with ODR, my code becomes too fast
2013-03-19T18:17:28 < jon1012> and the port isn't actually updated when I continue
2013-03-19T18:27:12 < BrainDamage> score! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/X-ray-photodiode-array-detector-scintillator-EG-G-Linescan-/200908012011?ssPageName=ADME%3AB%3AEOIBSA%3AIT%3A3160&nma=true&si=p5hnr%252F7jLl%252FPWktp9wOmbtRZVks%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
2013-03-19T18:28:09 < Laurenceb> hah
2013-03-19T18:28:14 < Laurenceb> as seen on hackaday
2013-03-19T18:28:39 < BrainDamage> mmm?
2013-03-19T18:28:53 < Laurenceb> check hackaday
2013-03-19T18:36:44 < zippe> jon1012: try writing to the ODR register more than once
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2013-03-19T18:38:02 < zippe> jon1012: also, what does "when I continue" mean?
2013-03-19T18:38:26 < zippe> You're doing something after writing the ODR, but what?
2013-03-19T18:39:42 < zippe> You may also be hitting the write buffer
2013-03-19T18:40:01 < zippe> try adding   __asm__ __volatile__("dmb"); after your write to ODR.
2013-03-19T18:40:21 < zippe> Finally, the oldest trick - read back the ODR.
2013-03-19T18:40:38 < zippe> That may slow you too much, depending on what you are doing.
2013-03-19T18:41:10 < zippe> you don't have to assign it to anything, just (void)gpio->ODR;
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2013-03-19T19:10:37 < Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/18/auernheimer_ipad_hack_prison/
2013-03-19T19:14:58 < zippe> Yeah, that seems totally over the top
2013-03-19T19:15:14 < zippe> Given that he was just using an unsecured public interface
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2013-03-19T19:34:29 < jon1012> zippe, thanks I'll try :)
2013-03-19T19:34:53 < jon1012> zippe, yeah by doign other things
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2013-03-19T19:36:12 < zippe> without knowing what "other things" helping is a bit hard 8)
2013-03-19T19:36:27 < zippe> Other writes to the System bus should appear in order after the ODR write
2013-03-19T19:36:42 < zippe> But it will normally take several clocks for the ODR write to appear on the pins
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2013-03-19T19:37:08 < zippe> Also, if you are driving a low-impedance load and you have the slew rate on the pins (the MHz number) low, it can take quite a long time to change logic levels.
2013-03-19T19:37:27 < jon1012> ok
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2013-03-19T19:37:34 < jon1012> I use a 100mhz clock
2013-03-19T19:37:40 < jon1012> on the gpio
2013-03-19T19:37:43 < zippe> e.g. if you are talking to the slow APB you can be at FCLK/4, maybe as low as 8MHz on some STM32 parts, so 500ns or so easily to see the change at the pad driver.
2013-03-19T19:38:04 < jon1012> (on an stm32f4)
2013-03-19T19:38:05 < jon1012> ok
2013-03-19T19:38:06 < zippe> Then if you have set the pad to "2MHz" that's another 500ns low-to-high
2013-03-19T19:38:35 < zippe> Ok, so then you are only looking at a few tens of nanoseconds propagation in the GPIO logic
2013-03-19T19:39:26 < jon1012> ok
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2013-03-19T20:39:29 < qyx_> STM32F429/439 has sdram \o/
2013-03-19T20:39:31 < qyx_> probably old
2013-03-19T20:39:51 < jpa-> but no sdram cache \o/
2013-03-19T20:39:56 < jpa-> yay slow memory accesses \o/
2013-03-19T20:40:16 < qyx_> ou
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2013-03-19T20:45:23 < zyp> well, it must have some sort of cache, considering how sdram is read and written in bursts
2013-03-19T20:45:28 < zyp> I mean buffer
2013-03-19T20:45:36 < qyx_> they mention some fifo
2013-03-19T20:45:48 < qyx_> Read FIFO for SDRAM controller
2013-03-19T20:46:32 < jpa-> yeah, probably quite similar to the lpc43xx buffer
2013-03-19T20:46:36 < qyx_> and also write fifo
2013-03-19T20:53:44 < jpa-> my newest thingie is now happily transmitting temperatures wirelessly  http://koti.kapsi.fi/jpa/stuff/pix/um_pcb_soldered.jpg
2013-03-19T20:55:40 < qyx_> should i ask where dou you put that thing to?
2013-03-19T20:57:03 < jpa-> meat
2013-03-19T20:57:20 < qyx_> ah
2013-03-19T20:57:21 < qyx_> ok
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2013-03-19T21:38:46 < karlp> what wireless are you using there jpa?
2013-03-19T21:39:06 < jpa-> karlp: qam-tx3
2013-03-19T21:39:10 < jpa-> 433MHz
2013-03-19T21:41:38 < Tectu> This bit sets the type of interrupt signal required by the host
2013-03-19T21:41:38 < Tectu> 1: Edge interrupt
2013-03-19T21:41:38 < Tectu> 0: Level interrupt
2013-03-19T21:41:43 < Tectu> what's the difference? :x
2013-03-19T21:42:03 < jpa-> level = active until cleared, edge = usually a pulse
2013-03-19T21:42:33 < Tectu> cleared? It's a touchscreen controller with an interrupt output which is hooked up to my STM32F4.
2013-03-19T21:42:40 < Tectu> as GPIO pin
2013-03-19T21:43:07 < Tectu> so I use level here, right? it's low as long as the touchscreen is touched, afterwards high again?
2013-03-19T21:43:12 < jpa-> ok, then level means probably "active as long as pen is down" while edge is probably "pulse when pen is touched"
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2013-03-19T21:43:58 < Tectu> okay, so I got that right, thanks!
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2013-03-19T21:49:52 < Tectu> meh, I'm not getting any intterupt. the level keeps being high. I set the GPIO to digital input without any pull-ups/downs
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2013-03-19T21:52:03 < jpa-> which touchscreen controller?
2013-03-19T21:53:33 < Tectu> jpa-, STMPE811    my register values for the interrupts:     INT_CTRL = 0x01     INT_STA = 0xFF     INT_EN = 0x03
2013-03-19T21:55:14 < Robint91> jpa-, what is that?
2013-03-19T21:55:27 < Tectu> jpa-, there's a 10k pull-up on the INT line to the GPIO of the MCU
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2013-03-19T21:56:38 < jpa-> Robint91: wireless oven thermometer
2013-03-19T21:56:55 < Robint91> jpa-, ah
2013-03-19T21:56:58 < Robint91> jpa-, nice
2013-03-19T21:57:47 < Robint91> somebody an idea to for a 2.4GHz antenna for this board? http://i.imgur.com/eXMhdkw.png
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2013-03-19T21:58:02 < Robint91> there isn't much room left
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2013-03-19T21:58:28 < jpa-> Tectu: INT_STA = 0xFF is a bit suspicious
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2013-03-19T21:59:54 < jpa-> Robint91: mount it above the board?
2013-03-19T22:00:14 < Robint91> jpa-, what kind of antenna? just a wire?
2013-03-19T22:00:17 < jpa-> (going to be directional, though)
2013-03-19T22:00:45 < Robint91> jpa-, I have only +- 5mm vertical clearance on each side
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2013-03-19T22:01:13 < Tectu> jpa-, to clear all interrupts?
2013-03-19T22:01:24 < jpa-> Tectu: ah, so that was a write not a read :)
2013-03-19T22:01:25 < qyx_> some microstrip patter on the bottom side of the pcb?
2013-03-19T22:01:33 < qyx_> pattern
2013-03-19T22:01:53 < jpa-> pcb antenna is not going to work very well if there are signals / ground on the other side
2013-03-19T22:01:58 < Robint91> qyx_, dunno If that will work with traces on the top
2013-03-19T22:02:31 < Robint91> those chip antennas need also a fawful lot of clearnce
2013-03-19T22:02:54 < qyx_> but i mean directional microstrip on bottom 2 layers
2013-03-19T22:03:08 < qyx_> separated by ground from live signals
2013-03-19T22:03:10 < Tectu> jpa-, jep, all the values I posted is what I wrote
2013-03-19T22:03:13 < Tectu> jpa-, so any other clue?
2013-03-19T22:03:14 < Robint91> qyx_, moving to 4 layers
2013-03-19T22:03:20 < Robint91> qyx_, mhh
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2013-03-19T22:03:44 < qyx_> http://www.amitsingh.co.in/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/new.jpg
2013-03-19T22:03:45 < jpa-> Tectu: not really.. verify signal voltage with multimeter?
2013-03-19T22:03:46 < qyx_> something like that
2013-03-19T22:04:05 < Laurenceb_> http://www.antenna-theory.com/antennas/patches/pifa.php
2013-03-19T22:04:40 < qyx_> yep
2013-03-19T22:05:30 < Tectu> jpa-, jep, having it on scope here. It's high all the time
2013-03-19T22:05:58 < jpa-> Tectu: you are touching the screen, right? :)
2013-03-19T22:06:04 < Tectu> jpa-, yes, I am ;-)
2013-03-19T22:06:20 < Robint91> Laurenceb_, how do you design those ones?
2013-03-19T22:06:27 < jpa-> Tectu: hmm, did you set EN in TSC_CTRL?
2013-03-19T22:06:50 < Laurenceb_> by following the equations :P
2013-03-19T22:07:19 < jpa-> Tectu: following the steps given in section 11 could work also
2013-03-19T22:07:38 < Tectu> jpa-, jep, EN in TSC_CTRL is set
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2013-03-19T22:07:56 < Tectu> jpa-, interesting, I'll read that one >.<
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2013-03-19T22:40:03 < Laurenceb_> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1719965
2013-03-19T22:40:05 < Laurenceb_> teehee
2013-03-19T22:41:00 < Laurenceb_> http://rctruth.com/index.php?topic=909.0
2013-03-19T22:41:07 < Laurenceb_> lolz "rctruth"
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2013-03-19T23:04:12 < Tectu> meh... I accidently shorted the GND and 5V pins on the STM32F4-Discovery board... now the board still works and I can debug and program it over USB as long as I set an external 5V power source to those two pins, but I cannot power it over USB anymore. Ideas?
2013-03-19T23:05:00 < zyp> you probably blew D1
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2013-03-19T23:05:12 < zyp> it's sitting right of the st-link usb connector
2013-03-19T23:05:37 < Tectu> I guess I can replace it my any silicium diode?
2013-03-19T23:05:43 < Tectu> as in 1N4001 or similar?
2013-03-19T23:05:52 < zyp> or just bridge it
2013-03-19T23:06:39 < sterna1> is it just me, or are the stm32f4discovery boards really sensitive?
2013-03-19T23:06:49 < sterna1> my friend killed like 3 or 4 of his
2013-03-19T23:06:59 < sterna1> but that may say more about him than about the boards?
2013-03-19T23:07:10 < Tectu> zyp, is that a good idea? o.O
2013-03-19T23:07:30 < Tectu> sterna1, you do something wrong when you kill 3 to 4 development boards
2013-03-19T23:07:44 < sterna1> he like dropped stuff on them
2013-03-19T23:07:45 < zyp> Tectu, sure, as long as you don't feed it 5V when you have st-link usb connected
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2013-03-19T23:07:47 < sterna1> like screwdrivers
2013-03-19T23:08:10 < Tectu> zyp, well, board works again. Thanks!
2013-03-19T23:08:30 < Tectu> sterna1, drop him out of the window
2013-03-19T23:08:44 < sterna1> it'ds hard since we´re in a basement
2013-03-19T23:08:53 < sterna1> and I would need a ladder and a sledgehammer :P
2013-03-19T23:09:16 < Tectu> sterna1, as you just said yourself - drop the sledgehammer on him
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2013-03-19T23:12:23 < Laurenceb_> <sterna1> he like dropped stuff on them
2013-03-19T23:12:25 < Laurenceb_> i lolled
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2013-03-20T00:13:49 <+Steffanx> dirty minded Laurenceb_ ?
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2013-03-20T00:44:29 < Laurenceb_> Steffanx: if you drop stuff on things it tends to break it
2013-03-20T00:45:00 <+Steffanx> but that's not the "stuff" you was thinking about
2013-03-20T00:45:20 < mervaka> lol
2013-03-20T00:45:31 < mervaka> zyp: just actually got round to testing my antialias filters..
2013-03-20T00:45:58 < mervaka> ADC AA filter is actually the biggest schoolboy fuck ever.
2013-03-20T00:46:04 < mervaka> fuckup*
2013-03-20T00:46:18 < mervaka> passive second order RC filter..
2013-03-20T00:46:58 < mervaka> = no maximally flat response
2013-03-20T00:47:00 < mervaka> herp derp
2013-03-20T00:47:17 < mervaka> emeb too
2013-03-20T00:54:25 < emeb> mervaka: which codec?
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2013-03-20T01:10:43 < Laurenceb_> mervaka: what are you trying to achieve with a dsp antialias?
2013-03-20T01:10:56 < Laurenceb_> are you resampling or something?
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2013-03-20T01:11:16 < mervaka> Laurenceb_: no, the analogue filter for the ADC
2013-03-20T01:11:27 < mervaka> emeb: the ADC
2013-03-20T01:12:05 < mervaka> i should have used an active design tbh..
2013-03-20T01:12:18 < mervaka> or a passive LC
2013-03-20T01:12:26 < mervaka> might be hashing it into the latter..
2013-03-20T01:12:35 < Laurenceb_> for audio input?
2013-03-20T01:12:48 < mervaka> between the preamp and the ADC
2013-03-20T01:13:10 < mervaka> i currently have an RC ladder there
2013-03-20T01:13:10 < Laurenceb_> microphone preamp?
2013-03-20T01:13:12 < mervaka> yeah
2013-03-20T01:13:13 < Laurenceb_> i see
2013-03-20T01:13:22 < Laurenceb_> you can cascade two RC filters
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2013-03-20T01:13:32 < Laurenceb_> depends how much adc oversampling you have
2013-03-20T01:14:00 < mervaka> PGA2500 > filter > ADC
2013-03-20T01:14:13 < mervaka> well that's exactly what i'm doing currently
2013-03-20T01:14:49 < mervaka> except the pass band isn't half as flat as i expected it to be.
2013-03-20T01:15:00 < mervaka> well
2013-03-20T01:15:09 < mervaka> i guess i was asking too much from an RC filter :p
2013-03-20T01:15:23 < mervaka> expecting this perfect butterworth response
2013-03-20T01:15:44 < mervaka> which i've over the course of this year learned isn't possible with RC filters..
2013-03-20T01:16:00 < mervaka> balls.
2013-03-20T01:16:15 < Laurenceb_> maybe go for opamp if you really need it
2013-03-20T01:16:19 < Laurenceb_> seems overkill...
2013-03-20T01:16:36 < mervaka> bit late for that tbh. got two PCBs fabricated
2013-03-20T01:16:48 < mervaka> and not a lot of time left before this is all due in :/
2013-03-20T01:17:35 < mervaka> what's a good amount of attenuation of image components, anyway?
2013-03-20T01:18:43 < mervaka> currently aiming for about 70-80dB
2013-03-20T01:19:25 < mervaka> just because.
2013-03-20T01:19:44 < Laurenceb_> dunno.. i dont do audio stuff
2013-03-20T01:19:48 < mervaka> :p
2013-03-20T01:19:51 < Laurenceb_> sleep time, cya
2013-03-20T01:19:53 < mervaka> nn
2013-03-20T01:19:54  * Laurenceb_ zzz
2013-03-20T01:19:57 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb_ what?
2013-03-20T01:20:01 <+Steffanx> sleepy?
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2013-03-20T01:20:10 <+Steffanx> He must be sick
2013-03-20T01:24:08 < emeb> mervaka: oh - thought this was on your audio input to the I2S codec.
2013-03-20T01:24:19 < emeb> but it's on the internal ADC inputs?
2013-03-20T01:24:22 < mervaka> no
2013-03-20T01:24:24 < mervaka> you're right
2013-03-20T01:24:28 < mervaka> i mean the I2S codec
2013-03-20T01:24:34 < mervaka> i just refer to it as the ADC
2013-03-20T01:24:35 < mervaka> :p
2013-03-20T01:24:42 < emeb> What type of codec is it?
2013-03-20T01:24:51 < mervaka> TI PCM4202
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2013-03-20T01:26:12 < mervaka> http://guest:plymouth@svn.mervaka.co.uk/listing.php?repname=proj322&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fdocuments%2Fjaaa_fyp%2Ftrace%2F&#a6faef41510e16cd2cf844c7fcbd83482
2013-03-20T01:26:51 < emeb> Hmm...
2013-03-20T01:26:56 < mervaka> there's the bode plots of various paths in the signal chain given noise in
2013-03-20T01:27:13 < emeb> That's a std sigma-delta converter with a fairly high input sampling rate.
2013-03-20T01:27:26 < mervaka> yeah
2013-03-20T01:27:27 < emeb> You shouldn't need a particularly complex anti-aliasing filter
2013-03-20T01:27:30 < mervaka> 64x i think
2013-03-20T01:27:36 < mervaka> thats why it's only 2nd order
2013-03-20T01:27:51 < mervaka> brings me up to 3MHz
2013-03-20T01:28:34 < mervaka> ish
2013-03-20T01:28:48 < emeb> so what's the problem?
2013-03-20T01:29:24 < mervaka> look at pre_adc and pre_adc_aa
2013-03-20T01:30:03 < emeb> OK
2013-03-20T01:30:05 < mervaka> the pass band isn't anywhere near as flat as i had hoped :s
2013-03-20T01:30:30 < mervaka> then again, that might be because i'm looking at a linear plot?
2013-03-20T01:30:31 < emeb> oh - pre_adc_right has a bit of slope to it.
2013-03-20T01:30:46 < mervaka> yeah, about 10dB across the audible spectrum
2013-03-20T01:31:25 < mervaka> i think that's due to the pass band of the RC filter, but i could be wrong
2013-03-20T01:31:48 < emeb> well, that's not a great thing, but you can probably fix it with some component tweaks.
2013-03-20T01:32:18 < mervaka> yeah
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2013-03-20T01:32:40 < mervaka> but i have a feeling i need to go LC if i'm to get best results
2013-03-20T01:32:47 < mervaka> or active
2013-03-20T01:33:53 < emeb> Depends on the definition of "best results", but yeah, an op-amp filter would probably be a good idea
2013-03-20T01:34:09 < emeb> just to keep the impedances & gains more reasonable.
2013-03-20T01:34:26 < mervaka> too late for a topology change, PCBs are fabricated. not enough time for a redesign.
2013-03-20T01:34:37 < mervaka> but i could swap Rs for Ls
2013-03-20T01:34:46 < mervaka> and normalise?
2013-03-20T01:34:51 < mervaka> denormalise*
2013-03-20T01:34:52 < emeb> perhaps.
2013-03-20T01:35:09 < emeb> if you can find some inductors in the same footprint as your resistors.
2013-03-20T01:35:17 < mervaka> yeah
2013-03-20T01:35:28 < mervaka> if not, i'll just live with RC filters.
2013-03-20T01:35:32 < mervaka> might just do that tbh.
2013-03-20T01:35:34 < emeb> but a lot of the smaller SMD inductors tend to have rather lame Q
2013-03-20T01:36:01 < mervaka> well that's not a bad thing necessarily. a higher ESR will flatten my resonant peak
2013-03-20T01:36:04 < emeb> probably easier to push the RC constant up above the audio range.
2013-03-20T01:36:09 < mervaka> ya
2013-03-20T01:36:29 < mervaka> though that will reduce my alias rejection
2013-03-20T01:36:42 < mervaka> what's an acceptable level for that, anyway? seems very subjective to me.
2013-03-20T01:37:04 < emeb> it all depends on what's present in your input signal.
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2013-03-20T01:37:17 < emeb> Most audio sources won't have significant content > 100kHz.
2013-03-20T01:37:53 < emeb> a lot of this is to get rid of strong RF - AM broadcast stuff, and that's going to be a lot lower down than your audio signal.
2013-03-20T01:38:05 < mervaka> that's a point. i have to go to fs-fmax to get the audible alias components
2013-03-20T01:38:10 < mervaka> lol
2013-03-20T01:38:24 < emeb> so the filter rejection doesn't have to be too big.
2013-03-20T01:38:27 < mervaka> yeah
2013-03-20T01:38:36 < mervaka> might just shift this rediculously high.
2013-03-20T01:39:07 < mervaka> centre frequency is about 33k at the moment, matching the DAC
2013-03-20T01:39:12 < mervaka> DAC AA filter*
2013-03-20T01:39:34 < mervaka> in hindsight, i spent far to little time designing this filter.
2013-03-20T01:39:52 < mervaka> right, food for thought that :)
2013-03-20T01:39:56 < mervaka> RC might not be so bad.
2013-03-20T01:40:00 < mervaka> thanks again!
2013-03-20T01:40:02 < mervaka> nn x
2013-03-20T01:42:19 < emeb> np
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2013-03-20T08:20:21 < unixjazz> hi
2013-03-20T08:20:49 < unixjazz> does anyone have a stm32f103 working with a (external) stlink v2 dongle?
2013-03-20T08:21:21 < unixjazz> I am trying to write a firmware to the stm32f103 and got no love from the stlink v2 -- using both openocd and st-util
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2013-03-20T08:43:13 < ds2> does the st-linkv2 on a F3 discovery count?
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2013-03-20T09:00:32 < unixjazz> I am using the dongle
2013-03-20T09:01:07 < unixjazz> stlink/v2
2013-03-20T09:01:16 < unixjazz> I managed to get it to work now...
2013-03-20T09:01:27 < unixjazz> it is taking a little while to write the firmware to it...
2013-03-20T09:03:17 < ds2> oh
2013-03-20T09:03:30 < ds2> it works reasonably well (discovery version)
2013-03-20T09:03:34 < ds2> what sw?
2013-03-20T09:03:43 < unixjazz> software?
2013-03-20T09:03:53 < unixjazz> I am using openocd-0.6.0
2013-03-20T09:04:04 < unixjazz> it is working beautifully
2013-03-20T09:04:40 < unixjazz> in case you are interested... there is a nice python script to write firmware to the stm32f103 (the one that comes with the discovery kit, stm8s)
2013-03-20T09:06:41 < unixjazz> http://www.gniibe.org/gitweb?p=gnuk.git;a=blob;f=tool/stlinkv2.py;h=5168b0718f333df7bd56c2afe6138e8531186331;hb=HEAD
2013-03-20T09:08:36 < dongs> im pondering if i should see what gniibe is or im better off not knowing
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2013-03-20T09:10:03 < Tectu> so, anyone of you guys here ever used an STMPE811?
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2013-03-20T09:10:31 < unixjazz> dongs, gniibe is a developer
2013-03-20T09:10:49 < ds2> hmmm
2013-03-20T09:11:03 < ds2> why openocd instead of say the texane stuff?
2013-03-20T09:11:44 < unixjazz> not sure
2013-03-20T09:11:49 < unixjazz> I like openocd
2013-03-20T09:12:17 < ds2> ok
2013-03-20T09:12:37 < ds2> do you know if openocd supports SWD on "dumb" interfaces like the FTDI stuff?
2013-03-20T09:12:42 < unixjazz> yes
2013-03-20T09:12:45 < unixjazz> it supports swd
2013-03-20T09:12:51 < unixjazz> and it supports ftdi 2232
2013-03-20T09:13:11 < ds2> what's the pinout to use a FTDI device in SWD mode?
2013-03-20T09:13:23 < unixjazz> check this out:
2013-03-20T09:13:30 < ds2> I know openocd supports swd but everything refers to a STlink or similar smart device
2013-03-20T09:13:40 < ds2> and I have used the FTDI stuff in full jtag mode
2013-03-20T09:13:44 < unixjazz> http://www.gniibe.org/memo/development/gnuk/gnuk-installation-to-stm32-part-of-stm8s-discovery-kit
2013-03-20T09:13:50 < unixjazz> this is what I am following
2013-03-20T09:13:54 < unixjazz> niibe is a good fella
2013-03-20T09:13:58 < unixjazz> I have learned a ton with him
2013-03-20T09:14:19 < ds2> that is not using the FTDI interface
2013-03-20T09:15:01 < unixjazz> it is using the ftdi2232 chip
2013-03-20T09:17:18 < ds2> not in SWD mode
2013-03-20T09:17:23 < ds2> it is using it as a JTAG device
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2013-03-20T09:20:09 < unixjazz> it is JTAG/SWD
2013-03-20T09:20:13 < unixjazz> here is the pinout
2013-03-20T09:20:23 < unixjazz> http://www.gniibe.org/memo/development/gnuk/hardware/stlinkv2-stm8s-discovery
2013-03-20T09:20:27 < unixjazz> for the stm32
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2013-03-20T09:20:37 < unixjazz> and the stlink/v2
2013-03-20T09:20:45 < unixjazz> I have been working on this for a couple of days...
2013-03-20T09:20:51 < unixjazz> I finally got it to work
2013-03-20T09:21:46 < Tectu> ds2, well, I used texane "for a long time" and now I'm totally on openocd
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2013-03-20T11:30:56 < karlp> zyp: where did you get timing requirements for clocks for usb? from usb spec, not from the device datasheets?
2013-03-20T11:31:11 < zyp> from usb spec
2013-03-20T11:31:15 < karlp> l1 datasheet says it can do usb, generating 48mhz, but "only with external hse"
2013-03-20T11:31:24 < karlp> but makes no mention of what hse needs to be.
2013-03-20T11:32:00 < timemob> I suspect as long as it's a multiple it should be fine
2013-03-20T11:32:23 < zyp> karlp, 7.1.11 in usb2 spec
2013-03-20T11:32:46 < timemob> 8m is probably a safe choice
2013-03-20T11:32:50 < zyp> 500 ppm for HS, 2500 ppm for FS, 15000 ppm for LS
2013-03-20T11:34:29 < karlp> 0.25% for FS,
2013-03-20T11:34:34 < zyp> since tolerance is relative to the frequency, it remains the same when frequency is multiplied and divided
2013-03-20T11:34:39 < zyp> yep
2013-03-20T11:34:52 < karlp> right, so these resonators I've got aren't going to be good neough,
2013-03-20T11:35:00 < karlp> in fact, they're probably no better than the HSI.
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2013-03-20T11:35:17 < zyp> resonators are commonly 0.5%
2013-03-20T11:35:50 < karlp> so, if I only want HS, I should should get away with using the HSI anyway.
2013-03-20T11:36:26 < zyp> huh?
2013-03-20T11:36:35 < zyp> isn't HSI also just 0.5%?
2013-03-20T11:36:41 < karlp> L1 clock tree pulls out 48mhz from the pll after multipliers but before dividers, so it doesn't know what the source is.
2013-03-20T11:36:46 < karlp> sorry, LS
2013-03-20T11:36:48 < karlp> not HS
2013-03-20T11:36:55 < zyp> yes, for LS it would be fine
2013-03-20T11:37:11 < zyp> but as far as I know, stm32 usb controller doesn't support LS
2013-03-20T11:37:34 < zyp> unless L1 is different
2013-03-20T11:37:52 < karlp> main features says, "USB specification version 2.0 full-speed compliant
2013-03-20T11:37:56 < karlp>  so I guess that's FS only.
2013-03-20T11:38:05 < zyp> yes, same as F1/F3
2013-03-20T11:38:25 < zyp> and most other usb mcus
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2013-03-20T11:39:00 < zyp> I saw one once where «LS support to use usb without external oscillator» was an advertised feature
2013-03-20T11:39:13 < karlp> I have a feeling from some other reading that it's not the same usb core as the f1/f3 though.
2013-03-20T11:39:28 < karlp> but that could be just my memory
2013-03-20T11:39:41 < zyp> are you sure? I think I found it to be the same
2013-03-20T11:39:55 < karlp> no, not sure at all.
2013-03-20T11:40:06 < zyp> no reason it wouldn't be
2013-03-20T11:40:41 < karlp> well it has no OTG support
2013-03-20T11:41:10 < karlp> and the ref man has no "portions copyright synopsis" all over it
2013-03-20T11:41:23 < zyp> neither has F1/F3
2013-03-20T11:41:41 < zyp> looking in the RM now, it's certainly the same as F1/F3
2013-03-20T11:42:05 < zyp> and FS only
2013-03-20T11:42:35 < zyp> and yes, the synopsys core in F107/F2/F4 is completely different
2013-03-20T11:42:52 < karlp> oh, the section I'm reading is for f105 and f107 only.
2013-03-20T11:43:10 < karlp> I normally only read the ref man for the f100 value line, not the others
2013-03-20T11:43:26 < zyp> ah, right
2013-03-20T11:43:43 < zyp> F1 RM has chapters for both the F103 and the F107 core
2013-03-20T11:44:29 < karlp> right, reading the f102,f103 section it does look the same as the L1
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2013-03-20T11:50:34 < jpa-> karlp: if you don't mind the risk, i have tested and USB FS does work fine with HSI on STM32L151
2013-03-20T11:50:49 < jpa-> probably contingent on temperature and luck
2013-03-20T11:51:10 < zyp> it's a tolerance after all
2013-03-20T11:51:52 < karlp> jpa-: thanks, it's a one off though, so might just put a crystal on it and be done with.
2013-03-20T11:52:28 < jpa-> i'm planning to start putting USB connections to my projects, just for simple configuration needs.. when it's not a critical functionality, HSI is fine
2013-03-20T11:52:41 < jpa-> i often have miniusb for charging anyway
2013-03-20T11:52:45 < zyp> the problem with operating out of spec isn't that it won't work, it's that it's not guaranteed to work
2013-03-20T11:53:27 < jpa-> i bet a lot of hobbyist usb stuff is out of spec in some small aspect
2013-03-20T11:55:30 < karlp> especially the ones that bit bang it :)
2013-03-20T11:55:51 < zyp> vusb is LS
2013-03-20T12:01:08 < jpa-> one could probably bitbang low-speed usb quite nicely using timers & dma on stm32
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2013-03-20T12:11:58 < karlp> oh good oh, the l1 errata says, "oh yeah, that usb pull up we provided in software for you? don't use it, it's busted"
2013-03-20T12:12:20 < zyp> yep
2013-03-20T12:12:24 < zyp> that's known
2013-03-20T12:12:42 < zyp> so use external pullup like with F1/F3
2013-03-20T12:12:53 < karlp> well yeah, it's in the errata sheet, I haven't followed the finer details of actuyally using usb much
2013-03-20T12:13:21 < zyp> I think F1/F3 doesn't even have it
2013-03-20T12:13:29 < zyp> and on L1 they screwed up the resistance
2013-03-20T12:14:43 < jpa-> it's not that much out of spec that it wouldn't work :)
2013-03-20T12:15:03 < zyp> 0.9k IIRC?
2013-03-20T12:15:06 < karlp> hispeed is what gets labelled superspeed on consumer parts right?
2013-03-20T12:15:10 < zyp> no
2013-03-20T12:15:14 < zyp> superspeed is usb3
2013-03-20T12:15:35 < karlp> ah, there's 4 speeds overall, not three.
2013-03-20T12:15:37 < zyp> HS is 480 Mb/s, SS is 5 Gb/s
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2013-03-20T12:49:30 < Laurenceb> superspeed is "yo dawg, we heard you liked connectors"
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2013-03-20T13:13:24 <+Steffanx> Whoa, i'm pretty impressed by the results from cython. This loop has gone from 2 minutes to less than a second
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2013-03-20T13:13:37 <+Steffanx> runtime that is
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2013-03-20T13:31:32 < dongs> SS more like HH
2013-03-20T13:40:26 <+Steffanx> DD you mean
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2013-03-20T13:42:03 < dongs> no.
2013-03-20T13:43:57 <+Steffanx> Yes you do, as it should at least include "Dongs"
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2013-03-20T14:00:01 < dongs> http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/SFCF32GBH1BO4TO-I-NC-523-SMA/1052-1017-ND/2620351?cur=USD
2013-03-20T14:00:06 < dongs> anyone wants some storage
2013-03-20T14:00:44 <+Steffanx> wut
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2013-03-20T14:31:12 < donigs> anyone remember 80wire ide shits, are all pins 1:1 or do the GND ones actually tie to GND
2013-03-20T14:31:39 < zyp> 80wire IDE still only has 40-pin connectors
2013-03-20T14:31:46 < donigs> yeah i know
2013-03-20T14:31:55 < donigs> are all 40 pins 1:1 between cable
2013-03-20T14:31:58 < zyp> no
2013-03-20T14:32:11 < donigs> cause ide has like ~6 gnd shits
2013-03-20T14:32:18 < zyp> you have the cable select stuff that's different between the disk plugs
2013-03-20T14:32:37 < zyp> and I wouldn't be surprised if all gnds were tied together as well
2013-03-20T14:32:47 < donigs> on the connector?
2013-03-20T14:32:50 < donigs> isnt that expensive
2013-03-20T14:33:01 < donigs> to custom make a weird ass connector
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2013-03-20T14:33:20 < zyp> uh, you know that all the extra 40 wires are gnds?
2013-03-20T14:33:26 < donigs> of course...
2013-03-20T14:33:26 < zyp> so they are tied together in the connector
2013-03-20T14:33:31 < donigs> im talking about IDE gnds
2013-03-20T14:34:00 < zyp> and they have to be tied to a gnd somewhere, so I'd expect to be tied to some of the normal gnds
2013-03-20T14:34:01 < donigs> i.e. pin2, pin 19, pin 22, etc
2013-03-20T14:34:07 < donigs> hmm i see
2013-03-20T14:34:07 < zyp> so why not all?
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2013-03-20T14:44:58 < donigs> yep all gnds are linked
2013-03-20T14:44:59 < donigs> neat.
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2013-03-20T15:04:45 < Laurenceb> nice
2013-03-20T15:04:53 < Laurenceb> value CF card there donigs
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2013-03-20T15:31:11 < Laurenceb> http://www.bosch-sensortec.com/homepage/products_3/9_axis_sensors_5/ecompass_2/bno055_2/bno055_3
2013-03-20T15:31:15 < Laurenceb> sheeeettt
2013-03-20T15:32:10 < Erlkoenig> neat
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2013-03-20T15:37:54 <+Steffanx> $$$$$$
2013-03-20T15:40:21 < dongs> is that old
2013-03-20T15:41:12 <+Steffanx> is that a question
2013-03-20T15:44:11 < Erlkoenig> is there any logic behind STM32 part numbering? For the F4, all the F4*7 are so similar they share one reference manual. For the F4, all the F37* they share one RM...
2013-03-20T15:44:18 < Erlkoenig> -they
2013-03-20T15:45:04 <+Steffanx> ST logic :D
2013-03-20T15:46:00 < zyp> how much logic can you put into it?
2013-03-20T15:47:15 < zyp> first number is easy, that's series, second number is subseries that denotes certain features (like F37x ADC and F41x crypto) and third number denotes capabilities, where higher = more
2013-03-20T15:47:57 < Erlkoenig> i would love some logic where you could deduce from the number whether they are similar enough to have the same RM
2013-03-20T15:48:02 <+Steffanx> and than you have the characters ( which is all in the ds )
2013-03-20T15:48:04 <+Steffanx> *then
2013-03-20T15:48:09 < zyp> 0-3 is small stuff, no ethernet, device only USB and so on, 5 is a middle ground, and 7 is full connectivity
2013-03-20T15:48:23 < zyp> and then 9 is new, with sdram controller giving even more capabilities
2013-03-20T15:48:41 <+Steffanx> I wonder if they'll go to 10 too :)
2013-03-20T15:48:58 < zyp> first character is number of pins and second character is flash size
2013-03-20T15:49:28 < zyp> and then you have package and temp range
2013-03-20T15:49:55 <+Steffanx> I wonder if there is one in here that cares about the temp ranges :)
2013-03-20T15:50:00 < Erlkoenig> so for F4* you have like a Matrix? :D
2013-03-20T15:50:18 < zyp> yes
2013-03-20T15:50:32 < gxti> finally have an excuse to use F3 -- they have 16bit ADC/DAC, which replaces some shit on my power supply design
2013-03-20T15:50:46 < Erlkoenig> some have SD-ADC
2013-03-20T15:50:55 < zyp> for each F41x device I think there is an equivalent F40x without the crypto
2013-03-20T15:51:11 <+Steffanx> gxti every excuse is a good one in this case
2013-03-20T15:51:44 < gxti> lately i've been doing ethernetz on everything which f3 does not yet have
2013-03-20T15:51:49 < Erlkoenig> but 40* also has crypto
2013-03-20T15:51:55 < zyp> no.
2013-03-20T15:51:58 < gxti> but now i can use f3 instead of discrete adc/dac, thus saving monies
2013-03-20T15:52:02 < Erlkoenig> aeh
2013-03-20T15:52:05 < Erlkoenig> not crypto, but RNG
2013-03-20T15:52:10 < gxti> and the ethernetz can be elsewhere
2013-03-20T15:52:11 < zyp> crypto is the sole reason for F41x over F40x
2013-03-20T15:52:49 < gxti> wish it was >72mhz though, wonder if there are cheap high-speed pwm generators
2013-03-20T15:52:56 < zyp> and the distinction probably only exists because of crypto export restrictions
2013-03-20T15:53:10 < Erlkoenig> ah, the americans
2013-03-20T15:53:21 < gxti> shit fucking sucks
2013-03-20T15:53:48 < gxti> i wonder if i have to deal with that selling things with GPS in it, assuming they're already crippled GPS modules
2013-03-20T15:53:54 < alexn> gxti. i write the sdadc.h to use it in libopencm3.
2013-03-20T15:54:09 < Erlkoenig> libopencm3 is C :/
2013-03-20T15:54:22 < gxti> it's also [L?]GPL
2013-03-20T15:54:34 < gxti> no bueno
2013-03-20T15:54:35 < Erlkoenig> "2012/03/02: License changed to LGPL v3 (or later) "
2013-03-20T15:54:46 < alexn> i now make the register definitions.
2013-03-20T15:54:51 < zyp> libopencm3 is pretty nice
2013-03-20T15:54:56 < alexn> yep
2013-03-20T15:55:03 < jpa-> lgpl3 is pretty nasty
2013-03-20T15:55:04 < gxti> i would use it so hard if the license were permissive
2013-03-20T15:55:25 < Erlkoenig> i've made a neat C++11 Wrapper for GPIO,RCC(partial),CAN - SD-ADC and ADC to come
2013-03-20T15:55:41 < gxti> i don't use c++ anyway Erlkoenig
2013-03-20T15:55:46 < Erlkoenig> tss
2013-03-20T15:55:51 < gxti> not because it sucks or anything, just don't care
2013-03-20T15:56:13 < gxti> so what's special about SD-ADC?
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2013-03-20T15:56:27 < zyp> Erlkoenig, your C++ API, how portable is it intended to be?
2013-03-20T15:56:28 < Erlkoenig> E-Engineers say it's nicer for audio and precise stuff
2013-03-20T15:56:36 < gxti> dc accurate i hope?
2013-03-20T15:57:53 < Erlkoenig> zyp: the ARMv7-specific part portable across ARMv7 (because CMSIS sucks too), and the periphal parts portable across all devices which support it (and i need it for :> ) ... which will mean F407 and F373 currently
2013-03-20T15:58:04 < jpa-> gxti: it has more bits
2013-03-20T15:58:23 < gxti> i noticed
2013-03-20T15:58:24 < gxti> brb
2013-03-20T15:59:30 < zyp> Erlkoenig, I'm asking because my goal is designing an API that would work great for both stm32, lpc and other chips I'd be interested in using
2013-03-20T16:00:04 < Erlkoenig> uhm
2013-03-20T16:00:17 < Erlkoenig> well one could keep some sort of source compatibility
2013-03-20T16:00:30 < Erlkoenig> but i guess the actual implementation differs a lot for LPC and others
2013-03-20T16:00:40 < zyp> I mean the API
2013-03-20T16:01:05 < Erlkoenig> but e.g. the NVIC (ARMv7-M-specific) part is of course suitable for all ARMv7-M devices
2013-03-20T16:01:12 < zyp> yes, that's irrelevant
2013-03-20T16:01:28 < zyp> I'm talking about the other stuff
2013-03-20T16:01:29 < Erlkoenig> :D
2013-03-20T16:01:47 < zyp> peripherals with mostly equivalent features but completely different register interfaces
2013-03-20T16:02:08 < zyp> decoupling your API from the register interface is rather important then
2013-03-20T16:02:09 < Erlkoenig> well the Periphal API's integrate with the NVIC API, e.g. the CAN class can enable the correct IRQ automatically
2013-03-20T16:02:27 < Erlkoenig> yes the API, how it looks from the outside, is completely isolated from the Register stuff
2013-03-20T16:02:58 < Erlkoenig> however the capabilities of e.g. the CAN Filtering and Interrupt stuff is probably very STM32-specific
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2013-03-20T16:03:46 < zyp> can filtering with match and mask registers is common, from what I've seen of other can peripherals
2013-03-20T16:04:19 < Erlkoenig> oh nice... a problem might be the filter index in the RX Mailbox
2013-03-20T16:04:23 < zyp> but anyway, I'm more interested in core stuff like clock control
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2013-03-20T16:04:57 < Erlkoenig> i have a Clock class with uint32_t frequency ();  and a derived PeriphalClock class with enable() and disable()
2013-03-20T16:04:59 < zyp> I want a unified way to select sysclock and turn on and off peripherals
2013-03-20T16:05:23 < Erlkoenig> and the periphals have a clock() function returning the correct PeriphalClock instance
2013-03-20T16:05:44 < Erlkoenig> sysclock stuff is not implemented yet... currently just relying on ST's example code ^^
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2013-03-20T16:05:47 < Erlkoenig> but is planned
2013-03-20T16:06:04 < zyp> how will you handle stuff like clock muxes?
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2013-03-20T16:07:00 < Erlkoenig> hmm dunno yet... maybe with some template magic and static type checking
2013-03-20T16:07:15 < Erlkoenig> so you don't select invalid combinations
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2013-03-20T16:07:27 < zyp> how will you handle dynamic clock changing?
2013-03-20T16:07:57 < Erlkoenig> dunno yet, have to do ADC's first :D
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2013-03-20T16:09:27 < karlp> dongs: did you write this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0595094724/b3ta-21
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2013-03-20T16:11:58 <+Steffanx> LOL
2013-03-20T16:12:01 < Erlkoenig> and have to think of a way to group the STM32 parts so that you can easily select for which one to compile and the headers change automatically accordingly
2013-03-20T16:12:47 < zyp> http://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/build_rules#n42
2013-03-20T16:13:59 < Erlkoenig> don't you need different linker scripts for 407 and 405 because of different flash sizes?
2013-03-20T16:14:07 <+Steffanx> scons magic :)
2013-03-20T16:14:22 < zyp> Erlkoenig, flash size is the same if the flash size letter is the same
2013-03-20T16:14:36 < zyp> the meaning of the flash size letter is the same for both 405 and 407
2013-03-20T16:14:43 < karlp> (that's why there's a whole letter for it)
2013-03-20T16:14:51 < Erlkoenig> ah oohps
2013-03-20T16:14:52 < karlp> ordering codes page in the datasheet man, read it
2013-03-20T16:15:10 < dongs> karlp: old link is old
2013-03-20T16:16:10 < Laurenceb> is that a real book?
2013-03-20T16:17:00 <+Steffanx> looks real
2013-03-20T16:18:16  * Laurenceb buys
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2013-03-20T16:18:18 < Erlkoenig> problem is that linker scripts are not only µC-specific, but might also be project-specific... for relocating stuff into SRAM or CCM or something
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2013-03-20T16:18:39 < zyp> yes, and that's why I allow overriding the linker script if required
2013-03-20T16:18:54 < zyp> if not it gets autoselected from the default ones
2013-03-20T16:19:20 < Erlkoenig> sounds reasonable
2013-03-20T16:19:48 < zyp> overriding just means that you change env['LINK_SCRIPT'] after doing SelectMCU()
2013-03-20T16:20:11 < zyp> other stuff can also be overriden that way
2013-03-20T16:22:11 < Erlkoenig> succeeded in building LTO-enabled GAE toolchain... saves 8 bytes of flash memory for my project... :D
2013-03-20T16:22:18 < gxti> i need to get in on that scons action
2013-03-20T16:22:35 < gxti> although i still have a soft spot for elaborate makefiles, for some inexplicable reason
2013-03-20T16:22:36 < Erlkoenig> use my make.rb build system :P
2013-03-20T16:22:44 < gxti> no
2013-03-20T16:22:47 < Erlkoenig> :(
2013-03-20T16:23:05 < gxti> i used rake once, edmittedly it was completely the wrong tool for the job, but still once is enough
2013-03-20T16:23:09 < zyp> Erlkoenig, what's good about it?
2013-03-20T16:23:12 < gxti> using non-rake ruby would be even dumber
2013-03-20T16:23:19 < Laurenceb> i used rake
2013-03-20T16:23:28 < Laurenceb> then i learned to hoe
2013-03-20T16:23:31 < Erlkoenig> zyp: more elegant for cross-compiling and cross-platform dev
2013-03-20T16:23:33 < gxti> fail
2013-03-20T16:23:40 < zyp> Erlkoenig, how so?
2013-03-20T16:23:48 < Erlkoenig> because of explicit notion of platforms and stuff
2013-03-20T16:23:55 < Erlkoenig> also theoretically cross-compiler support
2013-03-20T16:24:07 < Erlkoenig> i.e. automatic generation of compiler flags according to compiler type
2013-03-20T16:24:14 < zyp> so does scons
2013-03-20T16:24:27 < Erlkoenig> i don't care
2013-03-20T16:24:30 < gxti> rude
2013-03-20T16:25:00 < zyp> I can easily have one environment for host stuff and one environment for mcu stuff in the same SConstruct
2013-03-20T16:25:07 < zyp> since environments are objects
2013-03-20T16:25:20 < Erlkoenig> i don't like scons declarative way
2013-03-20T16:25:24 < gxti> i take it that also means it's easy to build for multiple targets in one run?
2013-03-20T16:25:38 < gxti> e.g. i have variations for different hardware revisions (moving LED pins etc)
2013-03-20T16:25:50 < zyp> gxti, yes
2013-03-20T16:25:52 < gxti> and i have a 'make dist' target that poops out elf/hex for each revision at once
2013-03-20T16:26:11 < zyp> if you need different compiler options you just make several environments
2013-03-20T16:26:58 < gxti> cool.
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2013-03-20T16:27:11 < zyp> I have some example of that somewhere
2013-03-20T16:27:11 < gxti> i'll put it on my todo list, again
2013-03-20T16:27:57 < gxti> although the smart thing to do would be to autodetect revision like BMP does
2013-03-20T16:28:04 < gxti> but that makes the code uglier :[
2013-03-20T16:28:38 < zyp> here it is: http://cgit.jvnv.net/laks_demo/tree/?h=multivariant
2013-03-20T16:29:11 < zyp> SConstruct is the master build description, and SConscript describes what would be done for each variant build
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2013-03-20T17:13:18 < Erlkoenig> hu, is it correct that there are no Cortex-M4 STM32 µC's, just Cortex-M4F's (i.e.e
2013-03-20T17:13:21 < Erlkoenig> with FPU)
2013-03-20T17:13:40 < zyp> yes
2013-03-20T17:13:48 < Erlkoenig> okay thanks...
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2013-03-20T17:14:42 < zyp> so far I've only heard about freescale (I think) making some with M4 without FPU
2013-03-20T17:15:10 < Erlkoenig> oh funny
2013-03-20T17:15:24 < Erlkoenig> maybe because difference of M4 and M3 is marginal enough to just keep M3
2013-03-20T17:16:40 < zyp> yes
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2013-03-20T17:33:55 < Erlkoenig> dongs: You as an expert for expensive tools... Don't toolchains like Keil need linker scripts? are they only needed by GCC/GNU ld?
2013-03-20T17:35:06 < gxti> haha what
2013-03-20T17:35:24 < gxti> no matter how much you pay for it you still need to do different things sometimes.
2013-03-20T17:35:50 < gxti> maybe it has defaults, but so do many of the GCC-based IDEs
2013-03-20T17:36:03 < jpa-> atleast IAR uses linker scripts.. though they look like this  http://koti.kapsi.fi/jpa/stuff/other/lnkarm.xcl
2013-03-20T17:36:18 < Erlkoenig> ah...
2013-03-20T17:36:28 < Erlkoenig> and the ARM linker? it somehow needs to know where to put what segment and stuff
2013-03-20T17:37:17 < dongs> Erlkoenig: only by freetard shit
2013-03-20T17:37:22 < dongs> Erlkoenig: ive never touched any linker scripts in keil.
2013-03-20T17:37:29 < dongs> there's an option but everything just works.
2013-03-20T17:37:39 < gxti> defaults go a long way but you still might need to start at an offset for example
2013-03-20T17:38:01 < Erlkoenig> dongs: but internally their linker uses some kind of linker script?
2013-03-20T17:38:01 < gxti> although there's probably just a text entry field for the simple stuff
2013-03-20T17:38:16 < jpa-> even codesourcery comes with default linker scripts
2013-03-20T17:41:08 < trepidaciousMBR> Do the expensive toolchains get you much, above gcc? I'm interested in a comparison of what they will both do when properly configured, ignoring anything that makes one or the other easier to set up...
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2013-03-20T17:43:22 < dongs> Erlkoenig: yes, you can edit tto if you wanted to iguess
2013-03-20T17:43:51 < Erlkoenig> okay thanks...
2013-03-20T17:46:58 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: maybe support, if you buy it for real
2013-03-20T17:47:00 < Erlkoenig> i guess the ARM Compiler "armcc" can only be bought as part of the bigass expensive Keil IDE right?
2013-03-20T17:47:03 < karlp> you get this sort of stuff trepidaciousMBR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGmSCVgb6EM
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2013-03-20T17:51:25 < zyp> Erlkoenig, I don't think so
2013-03-20T17:53:24 < Erlkoenig> then i am too blind to find it
2013-03-20T17:57:21 < Laurenceb> karlp: that should be possible with opensource
2013-03-20T17:57:23 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2013-03-20T17:57:26 < Laurenceb> with a bit of work...
2013-03-20T17:57:58 < Laurenceb> in fact.. theres some examples in CMSIS
2013-03-20T17:58:24 < karlp> yeah, but it's not currently in any I've seen.
2013-03-20T17:58:35 < karlp> also, that needs the ulink pro, nt the ulink2
2013-03-20T17:58:59 <+Steffanx> retweeting http://internetcensus2012.bitbucket.org/paper.html .. scanning the entire ipv4 range YAY ( OLD?! )
2013-03-20T17:59:07 < jpa-> also it's not much use if there isn't a good user interface to analyze the results
2013-03-20T17:59:09 < trepidaciousMBR> Can't you do it with the stlink2 and gdb? I've never tried, but I thought I'd seen stuff about it
2013-03-20T17:59:15 < trepidaciousMBR> connected to eclipse somehow
2013-03-20T17:59:19 < Laurenceb> you need SWO support
2013-03-20T17:59:31 < Laurenceb> maybe openocd supports that now..
2013-03-20T17:59:34 < karlp> some of that is using the full ETM, not just SWO
2013-03-20T17:59:40 < Laurenceb> chibios have been doing a lot on this
2013-03-20T17:59:40 < zyp> Steffanx, I read it yesterday, was interesting
2013-03-20T17:59:43 < trepidaciousMBR> I think so, also there is the texane stutil thing
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2013-03-20T18:00:01 < karlp> neither openocd nor texane have any swo support whatsoever
2013-03-20T18:00:07 < jpa-> lol, no swo support there
2013-03-20T18:00:09 <+Steffanx> Downloaded the 0.5TB too zyp ? :)
2013-03-20T18:00:11 < Laurenceb> really
2013-03-20T18:00:13 < Laurenceb> rage
2013-03-20T18:00:15 < zyp> people were doing ETM traces on some stuff at work recently
2013-03-20T18:00:16 < karlp> BMP does, but there's not really any tools that can display it
2013-03-20T18:00:19 < jpa-> texane barely manages to do swd :)
2013-03-20T18:00:26 < zyp> I weren't too impressed by the tools
2013-03-20T18:00:36 < trepidaciousMBR> Ah ok, so the debug stuff is just using SWD, not SWO?
2013-03-20T18:00:41 < jpa-> zyp: which tools were they?
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2013-03-20T18:00:45 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: yes
2013-03-20T18:00:46 < zyp> jpa-, lauterbaach
2013-03-20T18:00:51 < zyp> -a
2013-03-20T18:01:38 < trepidaciousMBR> On the compiler side, is there much difference? Do they use gcc underneath, or some proprietary toolchain?
2013-03-20T18:01:46 < Laurenceb> i thought i read that there was SWO in progress with openocd?
2013-03-20T18:01:58 < karlp> might be, still remains whether there's anything that can use it.
2013-03-20T18:02:07 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: armcc, gcc and iccarm (iar) are common
2013-03-20T18:03:26 < zyp> http://www.lauterbach.com/powertrace.html <- this stuff
2013-03-20T18:04:29 < zyp> it's hooked to some other box with no less than four ribbon cables, which then connects to the ETM port on the target board :p
2013-03-20T18:05:24 < Erlkoenig> hmm i think i know why Rammstein is so popular everywhere... Nobody understands the lyrics :D
2013-03-20T18:05:38 <+Steffanx> People listen to the lyrics?
2013-03-20T18:05:47 < jpa-> rammstein is popular?
2013-03-20T18:05:57 <+Steffanx> Was once ..
2013-03-20T18:06:18 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx: sometimes you can't avoid
2013-03-20T18:06:22 <+Steffanx> Everyone knows "Ich will"
2013-03-20T18:07:24 < Erlkoenig> they are so sick.
2013-03-20T18:07:54 <+Steffanx> They are not that sick, compared to some others
2013-03-20T18:09:02 <+Steffanx> Are they still popular in germany Erlkoenig ?
2013-03-20T18:09:15 < Erlkoenig> hmm dunno... not so much probably
2013-03-20T18:09:18 <+Steffanx> Or are you guys still into nena?
2013-03-20T18:10:37 < Erlkoenig> what NO :D
2013-03-20T18:10:55 < Erlkoenig> is Peter Fox known outside of germany?
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2013-03-20T18:12:13 <+Steffanx> Probably not
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2013-03-20T18:12:32 < Erlkoenig> a pity
2013-03-20T18:12:40 <+Steffanx> At least there still is Scooter :P
2013-03-20T18:13:03 < Erlkoenig> oh noo
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2013-03-20T18:13:47 <+Steffanx> You prefer Alphaville?
2013-03-20T18:13:59 <+Steffanx> Man, I think i only know german crap
2013-03-20T18:14:20 < Erlkoenig> uh no
2013-03-20T18:14:59 < Erlkoenig> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPFY4-6cMZY
2013-03-20T18:15:01 < Laurenceb> Scooter? Are you ready?
2013-03-20T18:15:28 <+Steffanx> Yeah, how much is the fish Laurenceb ?
2013-03-20T18:16:40 < gxti> so how would SWO make my life better?
2013-03-20T18:17:11 < Erlkoenig> yess, regex'es as filenames
2013-03-20T18:17:42 <+Steffanx> uh?
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2013-03-20T18:18:11 < Erlkoenig> unix users would hate it
2013-03-20T18:18:28 < gxti> why
2013-03-20T18:18:41 < gxti> i mean, everybody should hate it
2013-03-20T18:18:44 < jpa-> gxti: by being able to observe the program's behaviour without disturbing it
2013-03-20T18:18:52 < Erlkoenig> because shell dies when there are special characters in it...
2013-03-20T18:18:55 < gxti> but windows is the one that has like five billion reserved chars
2013-03-20T18:19:00 < Erlkoenig> if someone somewhere didn't quote correctly
2013-03-20T18:19:05 < gxti> ooo colon scary
2013-03-20T18:19:40 < jpa-> oooo non-breaking space! this belongs in my filename!
2013-03-20T18:19:53 < Laurenceb> lol
2013-03-20T18:20:16 < Erlkoenig> http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/012/367/evilest.gif
2013-03-20T18:22:16 < trepidaciousMBR> I'm used to being able to debug say Java software that way, but to be honest I don't really use it much, I guess for embedded it could be very different
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2013-03-20T18:24:33 < Erlkoenig> what about a program containing files named "CON" or "COM1" or "NUL" .... :->
2013-03-20T18:25:34 < jpa-> (heck, you can even have the exact same unicode characters normalized differently.. http://kapsi.fi/~jpa/stuff/other/fun.tgz)
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2013-03-20T18:26:25 < gxti> the normalization crap is a huge can of worms
2013-03-20T18:26:56 < gxti> at some point you have to call a pathological use case a pathological use case and go home :p
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2013-03-20T18:27:42 < Erlkoenig> i also like windows' shell quoting
2013-03-20T18:27:47 < gxti> linux (posix?) sez anything other than null and slash is a-ok and regardless of whether you like it you have to admit it's hard to screw up
2013-03-20T18:28:09 < gxti> anyone not using utf-8 needs to be shot in the face though. repeatedly.
2013-03-20T18:28:27 < Erlkoenig> like MS Excel?
2013-03-20T18:28:27 < jpa-> very fun is that windows & linux normalize to nfc, while mac os x normalizes to nfd
2013-03-20T18:28:47 < gxti> i don't really care what programs use internally or in their own self-descrptive file formats
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2013-03-20T18:29:05 < Erlkoenig> gxti: you care as soon as you want to process the data with some script
2013-03-20T18:29:18 < gxti> write your script better then
2013-03-20T18:29:33 < Erlkoenig> how, if you only get e.g. ISO-8859-* encoded data
2013-03-20T18:29:35 < Erlkoenig> out of Excel
2013-03-20T18:29:43 < gxti> oh that's crap, i thought you meant utf-16
2013-03-20T18:29:44 < Erlkoenig> your script needs to be hardcoded to know what encoding is used
2013-03-20T18:30:00 < gxti> latin1 must die
2013-03-20T18:30:05 < gxti> diediedie
2013-03-20T18:30:11 <+Steffanx> What an anger gxti
2013-03-20T18:30:19 < Erlkoenig> maybe they fixed it in later versions, but the one i had to deal with would only output ISO-8859-15
2013-03-20T18:30:26 < gxti> ... 15?
2013-03-20T18:30:33 < Erlkoenig> west european
2013-03-20T18:30:36 < gxti> wat
2013-03-20T18:30:41 < jpa-> euro version of -1
2013-03-20T18:30:41 < Erlkoenig> probably because of german version
2013-03-20T18:30:53 < Laurenceb> latin1 is small
2013-03-20T18:30:53 < gxti> ok
2013-03-20T18:31:01 < Laurenceb> smallest font lib for fatfs in fact
2013-03-20T18:31:04 < Laurenceb> so very nice
2013-03-20T18:31:08 < gxti> ascii is smaller Laurenceb
2013-03-20T18:31:13 < jpa-> instead of asshole (¤) -15 has euro sign
2013-03-20T18:31:25 < Laurenceb> ascii doesnt work for LFN
2013-03-20T18:31:27 < jpa-> Laurenceb: font? for fatfs?
2013-03-20T18:31:30 < gxti> ascii is a subset of utf8 and can't be confused with it, therefore it is ok
2013-03-20T18:31:32 < Laurenceb> oh wait thats another microshaft fail
2013-03-20T18:31:36 < jpa-> Laurenceb: you mean codepage
2013-03-20T18:31:50 < Laurenceb> sorry
2013-03-20T18:31:53 < Laurenceb> yeah codepage
2013-03-20T18:32:11 < jpa-> but yeah, it's just a lot of MS compatibility crap accumulated over years
2013-03-20T18:32:50 < Erlkoenig> also MS Office products can't open 2 files with the same name (but  different directory) :-
2013-03-20T18:32:51 < Erlkoenig> :-)
2013-03-20T18:32:58 < Laurenceb> lolz
2013-03-20T18:33:15 <+Steffanx> Erlkoenig sure?
2013-03-20T18:33:23 < Erlkoenig> at least with the old version, like 2003 or so
2013-03-20T18:33:25 <+Steffanx> I never ever heard of that before
2013-03-20T18:33:43 < Erlkoenig> it's because so you can do Documents("yourmom.xls") from within VB
2013-03-20T18:33:50 < Erlkoenig> without caring about paths
2013-03-20T18:33:53 < Laurenceb> wtf bitcoin
2013-03-20T18:33:57 < jpa-> excel cannot
2013-03-20T18:34:01 < Laurenceb> price going nuts
2013-03-20T18:34:06 < gxti> who cares
2013-03-20T18:34:07 <+Steffanx> buttcoin Laurenceb, buttcoin
2013-03-20T18:34:14 < gxti> buttcoin is going huge
2013-03-20T18:34:21 < Laurenceb> lolz
2013-03-20T18:34:44 < Erlkoenig> and if you use OLE to access Excel and Excel Files it's impossible to suppress all the annoying messages Excel shows when opening files... so if you have a script that reads in 1000 .xls files you have to click 300x to "No" or something... also Excel opening 100 windows stops you from doing any other work meanwhile
2013-03-20T18:34:48 < Laurenceb> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg1ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
2013-03-20T18:34:51 <+Steffanx> office for mac is perfectly able to do so Erlkoenig
2013-03-20T18:34:54 < jpa-> price increases before the hoaxers cash out? check.
2013-03-20T18:34:56 < Erlkoenig> s/1000/100
2013-03-20T18:34:57 <+Steffanx> but i dont think it supports vb
2013-03-20T18:35:06 <+Steffanx> oh it does
2013-03-20T18:35:10  * Steffanx removes that crap
2013-03-20T18:35:18 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx: maybe they fixed it, but it didn't work in the old version
2013-03-20T18:35:20 < Erlkoenig> i had to use
2013-03-20T18:35:22 < gxti> don't get r00ted Steffanx
2013-03-20T18:35:41 <+Steffanx> Uh what gxti
2013-03-20T18:35:42 <+Steffanx> ?
2013-03-20T18:35:50 < gxti> by those nasti vb viruses
2013-03-20T18:35:56 <+Steffanx> Oh :D
2013-03-20T18:36:08 < Erlkoenig> ... so listen kids: If you ever want to automatically process Office Files, use Apache POI and any JVM-able language (such as jruby or java).
2013-03-20T18:36:29 < Erlkoenig> it's also muuuuch faster than using Excel's OLE Interface
2013-03-20T18:36:32 <+Steffanx> Everything is better than OOo atleast ( flameware here we come )
2013-03-20T18:36:53 <+Steffanx> I export them too csv and use that Erlkoenig :P
2013-03-20T18:37:01 <+Steffanx> For excel that is
2013-03-20T18:37:07 <+Steffanx> Who wants to process word documents?!
2013-03-20T18:37:12 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx: works as long as you don't need to care for fancy formatting
2013-03-20T18:37:21 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx: people in some companies want to do that :D
2013-03-20T18:37:47 <+Steffanx> Managers ..
2013-03-20T18:38:06 < Erlkoenig> for these People MS Access is a Database and complicated, so they store everything in fancy colourful Excel sheets
2013-03-20T18:38:15 < karlp> so, listen kids: if your job involves the choice of automatically processing office files, consider another job
2013-03-20T18:38:30 < Erlkoenig> huehue, it was at least well-paid :>
2013-03-20T18:38:31 <+Steffanx> When it involves access you should do the same karlp
2013-03-20T18:38:34 < karlp> sure, if you somehow need to, defintiely use POI rather than OLE
2013-03-20T18:38:44 < karlp> if it involves access, you've got to wonder how you took teh job in the first place
2013-03-20T18:39:04  * Steffanx remembers his previous job
2013-03-20T18:39:15 <+Steffanx> *last job
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2013-03-20T18:39:21 < zyp> I did some work editing an excel sheet on monday
2013-03-20T18:39:42 <+Steffanx> and you loved it
2013-03-20T18:39:52 < zyp> it weren't too bad
2013-03-20T18:40:02 < karlp> zyp: sure, but were you writing tools to automatically process excel sheets?
2013-03-20T18:40:27 < zyp> people had a list of stuff, and then somebody had added a Questions column with a bunch of questions
2013-03-20T18:40:29 <+Steffanx> karlp is nice when you can import the data into a 'real' database
2013-03-20T18:40:36 < zyp> so I added an Answers column and answered them
2013-03-20T18:40:58 < zyp> karlp, hmm, maybe
2013-03-20T18:41:14 <+Steffanx> Whoa this remembers me of an excel file i found on the web. From some universities in the UK.
2013-03-20T18:41:42 < zyp> karlp, some weeks ago I did some statistics on stuff
2013-03-20T18:42:32 < zyp> I exported one col with names to csv, did some processing on each named thing, then generated a new col of statistics which I imported back into it
2013-03-20T18:42:35 <+Steffanx> This file was an 'anonomous' survey with lots of private info, yay
2013-03-20T18:42:49 <+Steffanx> -o+y
2013-03-20T18:43:44 <+Steffanx> Religion, gay/non-gayness etc. ( don't ask how i find that )
2013-03-20T18:44:23 < zyp> did you find a correlation between religion and gayness?
2013-03-20T18:44:46 <+Steffanx> I didn't analyze it, lol
2013-03-20T18:45:11 <+Steffanx> The organisation did but the powerpoint file was protected
2013-03-20T18:45:14 <+Steffanx> *password protected
2013-03-20T18:46:43 < Erlkoenig> lulz. Well city administrations also send excel files with private info (names and everything) unencrypted via mail
2013-03-20T18:47:17 <+Steffanx> This file is just on a filestore on the www
2013-03-20T18:47:28 < gxti> cool.
2013-03-20T18:47:35 <+Steffanx> i-graduate.org ftw
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2013-03-20T19:25:27 < Erlkoenig> is there a machine readable file containing SRAM and Flash sizes of all STM32 controllers, including CCM size and "normal" SRAM size?
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2013-03-20T19:57:01 < Erlkoenig> e.g. the F407 has 128KB SRAM at 0x20000000 . where are the remaining 64KB of "CCM" SRAM? 0x1000000, labeled "TCM data SRAM" in the Datasheet?
2013-03-20T20:01:15 < jpa-> yes, 0x100..
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2013-03-20T20:02:01 < Erlkoenig> okay... and that "TCM data SRAM" in that diagram is the only source where this information can be found? very evil
2013-03-20T20:02:07 < Erlkoenig> whatever TCM means
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2013-03-20T20:18:07 < jpa-> Erlkoenig: memory map?
2013-03-20T20:18:55 < Erlkoenig> in the Datasheet? it only contains that "TCM data SRAM" not more
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2013-03-20T20:24:43 < gxti> i wouldn't mind collecting some data like that, and/or laying the groundwork (but not doing all the work) for a permissively-licensed libopencm3 alternative
2013-03-20T20:26:07 < Erlkoenig> i am already doing a bit of something like that
2013-03-20T20:26:29 < zyp> who aren't?
2013-03-20T20:26:33 < zyp> :p
2013-03-20T20:26:37 < Erlkoenig> creating XML files containing RAM/Flash/CCM Size, Pin/AF mappings, IRQ list... currently only for F407VG and F373CC because i need them
2013-03-20T20:27:07 < gxti> a lot of that type of stuff is probably better to be programmatically generated instead of exhaustively enumerating it for every part number
2013-03-20T20:27:26 < Erlkoenig> yes... but from what sources?
2013-03-20T20:27:51 < gxti> internally i mean, use a script instead of having thirty xml files for stm32f1x
2013-03-20T20:27:56 < Erlkoenig> the Pin/AF mappings come straigt from MicroXplorer, the IRQ numbers parsed from the StdPeriphal
2013-03-20T20:28:15 < gxti> the ram sizes come from the part number and the pin mappings are more or less cumulative e.g. the higher ones are just the lower ones plus more stuff
2013-03-20T20:28:36 < gxti> less redundancy means less mistakes
2013-03-20T20:28:56 < Erlkoenig> well the Pin/AF stuff works well this way
2013-03-20T20:29:48 < jpa-> gah.. never before have i understood how annoying a crashing USB host stack on modern PC is..
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2013-03-20T20:30:10 < jpa-> something about my pickit2 is making xhci_hcd crash.. and require a reboot before any USB devices work
2013-03-20T20:30:12 < Erlkoenig> that's possible?? :D
2013-03-20T20:32:29 < gxti> anything is possible Erlkoenig
2013-03-20T20:33:03 < zyp> sounds fun
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2013-03-20T20:59:55 < zyp> jpa-, quick question; how does nuttx' usb API look wrt. reading from bulk out endpoints?
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2013-03-20T21:04:10 < jpa-> zyp: you queue a "read request" to the endpoint, and it calls a callback function when a packet is received
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2013-03-20T21:04:23 < zyp> I've been giving it some thought lately, and I've realized there is basically two ways of handling it
2013-03-20T21:04:31 < jpa-> (https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/nuttx/blob/public/nuttx/drivers/usbdev/cdcacm.c#L791   for example)
2013-03-20T21:05:15 < zyp> right, so you explicitly queue a new read
2013-03-20T21:05:23 < jpa-> yeah
2013-03-20T21:06:01 < jpa-> the USB MSC driver queues multiple read requests
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2013-03-20T21:07:04 < zyp> then you have the other option, that I currently use, which calls back with data still stored in device buffer and expects you to read it out from the callback
2013-03-20T21:07:23 < zyp> libopencm3 does the same
2013-03-20T21:07:56 < jpa-> that's more conservative of RAM, i think
2013-03-20T21:08:17 < zyp> yes, you don't have to allocate the buffer until you actually know the size of the received packet
2013-03-20T21:08:50 < jpa-> does the callback have to come from interrupt context in that case?
2013-03-20T21:09:00 < zyp> and you don't have to read it out of the device memory at all if you don't want it (on F4 you still have to, to clear it out of the FIFO)
2013-03-20T21:09:15 < zyp> not necessarily
2013-03-20T21:09:36 < zyp> in my case I'd just have the interrupt mark the usb-thread ready
2013-03-20T21:10:08 < zyp> so the callback is called from the usb thread
2013-03-20T21:10:27 < jpa-> hmm yeah, i think that seems a better way overall
2013-03-20T21:11:17 < zyp> calling read() in advance kinda seems more conventional though
2013-03-20T21:12:22 < zyp> and scheduling a read() could schedule a multi-packet transfer so the callback is only called when the entire transfer is done
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2013-03-20T21:13:18 < zyp> but on the other hand, that api could just be built on top of the api I already have
2013-03-20T21:13:19 < baird> Brix shat: http://boards.4chan.org/g/res/32414769 ..
2013-03-20T21:13:21 < jpa-> hmm yeah, i think nuttx actually does that
2013-03-20T21:13:59 < zyp> so I could probably easily make both available
2013-03-20T21:14:07 < Tectu> might someone tell me what this tamper stuff is?
2013-03-20T21:14:35 < Tectu> I thought it is wake-up things, but it's not, since there is some wake-up thing
2013-03-20T21:14:48 < zyp> jpa-, then I've been thinking a bit about write() to out endpoints
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2013-03-20T21:15:00 < gxti> Tectu: (optionally) wipes out battery-backed RAM, or something like that
2013-03-20T21:15:04 < jpa-> Tectu: it's to trigger the EEM (embedded explosive module) if the chassis is opened
2013-03-20T21:15:15 < gxti> then shorts the battery so it explodes.
2013-03-20T21:15:22 < jpa-> zyp: write() to out? why?
2013-03-20T21:15:32 < zyp> to in I mean :p
2013-03-20T21:15:38 < jpa-> ah :)
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2013-03-20T21:15:53 < zyp> I don't really like the fact that I have to have all the data for the packet available at once
2013-03-20T21:16:30 < zyp> so I'm thinking about splitting it, to have one function to prepare a transfer and one function to fill the prepared transfer with data
2013-03-20T21:16:30 < Tectu> gxti, jpa-, so in real it just deletes any data in RAM and the Backup registers?
2013-03-20T21:16:41 < gxti> Tectu: i don't know the details, RTFM
2013-03-20T21:16:46 < Tectu> k, thanks!
2013-03-20T21:16:48 < zyp> this matches how the dwg core works
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2013-03-20T21:17:00 < gxti> it's called 'tamper' because you connect it to a tamper switch that trips when someone opens the case or something
2013-03-20T21:17:11 < jpa-> zyp: well it's only 64 bytes maximum, right?
2013-03-20T21:17:13 < gxti> so if you're storing sekrit keys in bbram it wipes
2013-03-20T21:17:18 < zyp> jpa-, no
2013-03-20T21:17:34 < zyp> the dwg core will split a larger transfer into MPS sized packets if you ask it to
2013-03-20T21:17:45 < jpa-> ah, true
2013-03-20T21:17:47 < zyp> and that seems quite nice actually
2013-03-20T21:17:53 <+Steffanx> note to gxti: dongs vocabulary
2013-03-20T21:18:10 < gxti> more, or less Steffanx?
2013-03-20T21:18:16 < jpa-> though that is specific to that core.. you might as well split it in software with little speed penalty
2013-03-20T21:18:20 < zyp> so I'm thinking it would be nice to interface to that, and then just emulate it for the controllers that doesn't work that way
2013-03-20T21:18:26 <+Steffanx> gxti, enough
2013-03-20T21:19:02 < gxti> Steffanx: i'm not even sure which words you're talking about, 'sekrit'? probably a bad sign.
2013-03-20T21:19:16 <+Steffanx> bad sign?
2013-03-20T21:19:50 < gxti> if people think i talk like dongs even when i'm not doing it on purpose.
2013-03-20T21:19:56 < Laurenceb_> lol
2013-03-20T21:20:07 < gxti> then again you're probably trained to read too much into everything so it's your fault too
2013-03-20T21:20:20 < Laurenceb_> its irc
2013-03-20T21:20:23 < Laurenceb_> so, yes
2013-03-20T21:22:46 < zyp> jpa-, but anyway, part of what I would like to do is being able to set up a transfer and fill it part by part when gathering data from different sources
2013-03-20T21:23:08 < zyp> like for instance descriptors
2013-03-20T21:24:19 < jpa-> zyp: a nanopb stream writing directly to usb ;) (except then you wouldn't know the packet size in advance)
2013-03-20T21:24:30 < zyp> instead of having a static buffer like I have now, I want all attached drivers to supply their own when requested, and then just concatenate as it's being written to the core
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2013-03-20T21:25:39 < zyp> eliminates the need for making the configuration descriptor manually, and simplifies having multiple descriptors for different speeds
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2013-03-20T21:26:44 < jpa-> but yeah, to do that would you need to sum the descriptor sizes first to get the transfer size?
2013-03-20T21:27:10 < zyp> yes
2013-03-20T21:27:41 < jpa-> may result in calculating some stuff twice.. but it's somewhat unavoidable
2013-03-20T21:28:12 < zyp> shouldn't be too bad
2013-03-20T21:28:24 < zyp> it's not like it's performance critical
2013-03-20T21:28:27 < jpa-> yeah, descriptors isn't a .. yeah
2013-03-20T21:30:02 < zyp> I'm also gonna make some sort of endpoint allocator so I don't have to hardcode the endpoint numbers
2013-03-20T21:31:31 < jpa-> nuttx does have that problem.. it has endpoint allocator, but because the descriptors are in const arrays, the endpoints have to be defined in configuration
2013-03-20T21:31:45 < jpa-> (which reduces the allocator to just reserving the endpoints)
2013-03-20T21:32:08 < zyp> const arrays is what I'm going away from
2013-03-20T21:32:20 < jpa-> yep
2013-03-20T21:34:24 < zyp> I wonder what my constexpr functions would compile to if I introduce a few runtime variables into the arguments
2013-03-20T21:35:27 < zyp> in theory it could still be optimized into a static array, then just having the variable fields rewritten later
2013-03-20T21:35:36 < jpa-> i wonder more about how it would look like when stepped through in gdb :P
2013-03-20T21:36:07 < zyp> I guess I could just test
2013-03-20T21:41:05 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-20T21:42:47 < zyp> even with static arguments, constructing descriptors in a function doesn't generate nice code
2013-03-20T21:44:04 < zyp> well, obviously, since they are generated on stack
2013-03-20T21:47:46 < zyp> making them static solves that
2013-03-20T21:48:22 < zyp> oh well, doesn't matter
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2013-03-20T22:42:54 < Erlkoenig> wtf is the purpose of GPIOx_BRR on STM32F3 when there is GPIOx_BSRR ?
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2013-03-20T22:49:43 < gxti> assuming it's the same as F1, because you can assign the same value to BRR without shifting
2013-03-20T22:50:13 < gxti> int blah = (1 << pin); GPIOA->BSRR = blah; GPIOA->BRR = blah;
2013-03-20T22:52:57 < Erlkoenig> uh... i guess you're going to mostly pass in constants/immediates anyways... however, F4 seems to lack that feature
2013-03-20T22:53:26 < gxti> i thought f3 and f4 had the same gpio, distinct from f1? just a random assumption though
2013-03-20T22:53:46 < zyp> yes
2013-03-20T22:54:24 < zyp> BRR existed in F1, got removed in F4, then added back in F3
2013-03-20T22:54:35 < Erlkoenig> funny...
2013-03-20T22:54:44 < zyp> F3 and F4 are identical apart from the addition of BRR
2013-03-20T22:54:52 < gxti> lolwut.
2013-03-20T22:56:38 < zyp> this has been discussed earlier, in the context of F0
2013-03-20T22:56:40 < zyp> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2012-10-08.html#12:23:00
2013-03-20T22:58:36 <+Steffanx> titanmkd .. long time no see that guy
2013-03-20T22:58:47 <+Steffanx> not active that is
2013-03-20T22:59:26 < zyp> I talked to him not too long ago
2013-03-20T23:00:29 < karlp> will look at it some more tomorrow
2013-03-20T23:01:01 < karlp> bah, wrong channel
2013-03-20T23:01:15 < karlp> stupid screen freezing
2013-03-20T23:01:37 < gxti> so f0, f1, and f3 have BRR, and f2 and f4 do not, and f3 and f4 (and f2?) have gpiov2 while f1 (and f0?) have gpiov1
2013-03-20T23:01:40 < gxti> neat
2013-03-20T23:01:51 < Erlkoenig> zyp: is there anything you don't know about STM32? :D
2013-03-20T23:02:01 < gxti> maybe f5 will have only BRR (extended to also do sets of course)
2013-03-20T23:02:09 < gxti> and use gpiov1
2013-03-20T23:03:05 < zyp> Erlkoenig, I think so, but I'm not sure
2013-03-20T23:03:32 < Erlkoenig> great... :D
2013-03-20T23:04:56 < Erlkoenig> zyp: do you know whether the CAN periphal of F3 and F4 are equal, except for CAN2SB?
2013-03-20T23:05:32 < zyp> I haven't looked at F3 CAN, but I know that F1 and F4 is the same
2013-03-20T23:05:52 < Erlkoenig> hmokay
2013-03-20T23:06:10 < zyp> because the CAN code I wrote once works on both
2013-03-20T23:06:26 < zyp> I would expect F3 to also be the same
2013-03-20T23:06:32 < gxti> i think we talked about this already, but why does CAN2 even exist?
2013-03-20T23:06:46 < zyp> where? on F4?
2013-03-20T23:06:49 < Erlkoenig> to interface with 2 CAN-Networks
2013-03-20T23:06:55 < zyp> yes
2013-03-20T23:06:57 < Erlkoenig> for more performance than just 1 CAN-Network
2013-03-20T23:07:05 < gxti> on F1, where it uses the same RAM and as i interpret it you can't use both at once
2013-03-20T23:07:07 < Erlkoenig> and for debugging your code by connecting CAN1/2 directly :>
2013-03-20T23:07:35 < qyx_> maybe some somer of redundancy
2013-03-20T23:07:42 < qyx_> with two parallel buses
2013-03-20T23:07:50 < qyx_> somer=sort
2013-03-20T23:07:52 < gxti> re CAN on F3, i'll find out soon enough. think i'm going to use it for my power supply project.
2013-03-20T23:08:58 < Erlkoenig> wanna use my library? ;)
2013-03-20T23:09:07 < gxti> once i have hardware maybe
2013-03-20T23:10:00 < gxti> i'll either be using chibios which should have what i need already, or perhaps jumping to coos or something which doesn't have any peripheral stuff in which case maybe
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2013-03-21T00:40:21 < BJFreeman> gxti should have a can driver for f3 in stm libraries I have one for both f1 and f4
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2013-03-21T01:02:37 < Laurenceb__> grrr
2013-03-21T01:02:49 < Laurenceb__> running out of options to bypass block here
2013-03-21T01:03:03 < karlp> bypass what?
2013-03-21T01:03:28 < Laurenceb__> im blocked from #highaltitude
2013-03-21T01:03:38 < karlp> some people are just no fun :)
2013-03-21T01:03:49 < Laurenceb__> i need to automate a bypass that trolls them
2013-03-21T01:04:00 < Laurenceb__> so logs in every 10 minutes and trolls them
2013-03-21T01:04:14 < Laurenceb__> im too lazy, but its poor form
2013-03-21T01:04:26 < Laurenceb__> makes me look _really_ lame
2013-03-21T01:05:29 < Erlkoenig> there is a channel for everything, right
2013-03-21T01:05:29 < karlp> yes, yes it would
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2013-03-21T01:40:26 <+Steffanx> You trolled to much Laurenceb ?! :D
2013-03-21T01:40:39 <+Steffanx> *too
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2013-03-21T01:53:40 < dongs> sup trolls
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2013-03-21T01:56:00 < emeb> yo dongs
2013-03-21T01:57:29 < dongs> any status
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2013-03-21T01:58:04 < emeb> waiting for PCBs on the next project
2013-03-21T01:58:27 < dongs> nice
2013-03-21T01:58:37 < dongs> i found this old obscure IC that looks fucking interesting
2013-03-21T01:58:45 < emeb> what's it do?
2013-03-21T01:58:56 < dongs> SDA9489X
2013-03-21T01:59:26 < emeb> Hmmm... PIP
2013-03-21T01:59:34 < dongs> yea
2013-03-21T01:59:41 < dongs> looks like switchable from 3 sources pip
2013-03-21T01:59:46 < dongs> overlayed on top of something else
2013-03-21T01:59:52 < dongs> though all ADC is 7bit
2013-03-21T01:59:54 < emeb> Micronas makes some weird shit.
2013-03-21T01:59:55 < dongs> not sure how this works
2013-03-21T02:00:00 < dongs> it was infineon
2013-03-21T02:00:04 < dongs> then sold to micronas in ~2k
2013-03-21T02:00:14 < dongs> then micronas sold it to agere maybe unsure
2013-03-21T02:00:17 < dongs> agere is deader than *BSD now
2013-03-21T02:00:30 < emeb> poor agere
2013-03-21T02:00:44 < emeb> that was what happened to ATT semiconductors I guess
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2013-03-21T02:01:07 < dongs> wasnt agere making winmodems
2013-03-21T02:01:19 < emeb> wouldn't surprise me
2013-03-21T02:01:49 < emeb> they were involved in some of the original IEEE 802.11 development back in the day too.
2013-03-21T02:01:59 < emeb> before it was called WiFi.
2013-03-21T02:02:10 < dongs> heh
2013-03-21T02:02:25 < emeb> that's a tiny chip too.
2013-03-21T02:02:46 < emeb> on-chip buffer DRAM!
2013-03-21T02:02:51 < dongs> yea man
2013-03-21T02:02:59 < dongs> when i saw that shit i had to get it
2013-03-21T02:03:05 < dongs> ill make a small breakout and troll with it
2013-03-21T02:03:17 < dongs> even has OSD
2013-03-21T02:03:39 < emeb> where you getting these?
2013-03-21T02:03:48 < dongs> china should have a ton
2013-03-21T02:03:54 < emeb> of course
2013-03-21T02:03:57 < emeb> NOS?
2013-03-21T02:03:59 < dongs> my pal yesterday said he was g onna get back to me w/pricing on non-rohs versions
2013-03-21T02:04:04 < dongs> right
2013-03-21T02:05:07 < qyx_> you mentioned that onchip dram
2013-03-21T02:05:29 < qyx_> there is a manufacturer which does m3/m4 cpus with eDRAM
2013-03-21T02:05:42 < qyx_> but i dont remember :S
2013-03-21T02:05:44 < dongs> feescale?
2013-03-21T02:05:54 < qyx_> something like that.. or ti
2013-03-21T02:06:40 < qyx_> ah, toshiba tx03
2013-03-21T02:07:34 < qyx_> tmp3xx
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2013-03-21T02:09:24 < ds2> how much DRAM?
2013-03-21T02:10:58 < ds2> blah 1M
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2013-03-21T02:26:47 < dongs> but yeah i duno im gonna get that thing and screw around with it in free time
2013-03-21T02:27:00 < dongs> i think it only outputs RGB so im gonna use AD725 or whatever rgb>cvbs
2013-03-21T02:40:48 < dongs> just blogged http://www.lunix.tv/2013/03/lunix-product-support.html
2013-03-21T02:47:33 < Erlkoenig> wait, YOU are in a linux channel??
2013-03-21T02:48:01 < dongs> i am???
2013-03-21T02:48:55 < Erlkoenig> http://www.lunix.tv/2010/08/i-need-to-ask-does-wintv-nova-s-usb2.html   this looks a bit like
2013-03-21T02:49:45 < Bird|lappy> ancient hardware question: are there any known caveats to the 8259's Auto-EOI mode, or to Auto-EOI operation in general, that I should know before I go off to write IRQ handlers?
2013-03-21T02:49:45 < dongs> lolol
2013-03-21T02:49:53 < gxti> either that or you made it up
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2013-03-21T04:06:32 < dongs> https://plus.google.com/104326727082310562426/posts/CMW4Gst657v hey look feenode is dying
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2013-03-21T05:53:41 < gxti> reading comprehension is overrated
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2013-03-21T06:12:08 < dongs> youre not talking about my link hopefully
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2013-03-21T06:36:06 < gxti> freenode isn't dying, just lilo's dreams
2013-03-21T06:36:59 < dongs> lilo's dreams have been dead since before *BSD died
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2013-03-21T06:40:14 < ds2> lilo? the same person from the #linux of older days?
2013-03-21T06:40:21 < dongs> yeah
2013-03-21T06:40:29 < dongs> he got hit by a pink phallus-shaped bus
2013-03-21T06:40:38 < dongs> while biking to his trailer
2013-03-21T06:40:47 < dongs> http://www.gnaa.eu/wiki/pr/2006-09-16-gnaa-lilo
2013-03-21T06:40:49 < ds2> oh hehe
2013-03-21T06:41:56 < gxti> oh gnaa, so hilarious yet so forgettable
2013-03-21T06:42:11 < dongs> gnaa in 2006 was funny.
2013-03-21T06:42:17 < dongs> gnaa post-2009 was just criminals + retards
2013-03-21T06:44:26 < emeb_mac> gnaa post-dongs
2013-03-21T06:47:24 < Erlkoenig> i knew lilo as a bootloader
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2013-03-21T06:48:36 < DLPeterson> anybody got a sec for a quick pwm question?
2013-03-21T06:48:52 < emeb_mac> ask - don't ask to ask.
2013-03-21T06:48:53 < DLPeterson> i don't have hardware in front of me to test
2013-03-21T06:49:43 < DLPeterson> ok.  If I am working with a 16-bit PWM in count up mode, and I set the ARR to 0xFFFF, what happens when I set the CCR to 0x10000?
2013-03-21T06:49:52 < DLPeterson> do I get 100% duty, or 0%?
2013-03-21T06:50:27 < DLPeterson> essentially, is CNT compared to CCR as a 16-bit integer, or as a 32-bit integer?
2013-03-21T06:52:07 < DLPeterson> I am using an STM32F4, and using TIM1 in upcounting, edge aligned mode.
2013-03-21T06:53:09 < DLPeterson> the manual states: if the value in TIMx_CCR is greater than the auto-reload value (in TIMx_ARR), then OCxREF is held at '1'.
2013-03-21T06:53:59 < DLPeterson> so if the comparison is done as a 16-bit integer, 0x10000 truncates to 0x0000, and then OCxREF would be '0'
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2013-03-21T06:54:32 < DLPeterson> but if it is done as a 32-bit integer, 0x10000 is bigger than 0xFFFF, so OCxREF would be '1'.
2013-03-21T07:06:09 < zippe> DLPeterson: you can't set the CCR to 0x10000 if it's a 16-bit timer.
2013-03-21T07:06:18 < zippe> Or rather, that will set it to 0
2013-03-21T07:09:13 < DLPeterson> zippe, that is what I'm thinking too.
2013-03-21T07:09:17 < DLPeterson> zippe, check this out:
2013-03-21T07:09:22 < DLPeterson> https://github.com/ChibiOS-Upstream/ChibiOS-RT/blob/master/os/hal/platforms/STM32/stm32.h#L125
2013-03-21T07:09:56 < DLPeterson> the timer struct is allocated as a 32-bit in, presumably because some version in the family actually has a 32-bit timer
2013-03-21T07:10:06 < DLPeterson> in -> int
2013-03-21T07:10:33 < DLPeterson> but if the one I'm using is 16-bit, all compares will be 16-bit, correct?
2013-03-21T07:10:51 < dongs> status of status
2013-03-21T07:11:10 < dongs> DLPeterson: i think its clipped
2013-03-21T07:11:24 < dongs> based on timer width
2013-03-21T07:12:16 < DLPeterson> dongs, ok.  That makes sense.  I'll double check on some real hardware but I think you guys are both correct.  Thanks.
2013-03-21T07:12:32 < dongs> pretty sure F4 has a couple 32bit timers
2013-03-21T07:12:41 < dongs> not sure which ones
2013-03-21T07:13:43 < DLPeterson> yeah, me neither.  I think that is why the struct is defined that way so that it works with all versions in the family
2013-03-21T07:14:09 < DLPeterson> it is just a bit misleading when looking at that in comparison to the data sheet.
2013-03-21T07:14:28 < DLPeterson> Are there any guarantees what happens when you write to the Reserve portions of a peripherals memory?
2013-03-21T07:14:37 < DLPeterson> or read, for that matter.
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2013-03-21T08:02:04 < zippe> DLPeterson: no guarantees; some peripherals alias registers, others will ignore the write, others will hang, and if you're really lucky you'll get an exception
2013-03-21T08:02:50 < zippe> DLPeterson: in some cases there will be an undocumented test register there, and you will break the peripheral
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2013-03-21T09:48:43 < dongs> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/pcb-stencil-service-p-1391.html?cPath=185
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2013-03-21T09:51:31 < jpa-> not very cheap
2013-03-21T09:56:44 < dongs> more expensive than my frameless shit.
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2013-03-21T10:44:47 < Laurenceb__> lol im permabanned from #highaltitude
2013-03-21T10:49:52 < zyp> not surprised
2013-03-21T10:50:37 < Laurenceb__> i was only giving some sensible advice
2013-03-21T10:50:57 < Laurenceb__> advised some kid to turn off him computer, go outside and get laid
2013-03-21T10:52:04 < zyp> maybe you should consider that yourself
2013-03-21T10:52:29 < jpa-> Laurenceb__: note: not all people consider "laid" to mean "stick a spectroscope into your blood vein"
2013-03-21T10:52:31 < baird> a shortage of suitably-sized warm mammals
2013-03-21T10:52:57 < Laurenceb__> theres plenty of kangaroos
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2013-03-21T13:45:42 < Laurenceb> RS have a nice range of omnivision sensors
2013-03-21T13:46:19 < Laurenceb> look good for connecting to stm32 camera interface
2013-03-21T13:51:37 < jpa-> though not in stock
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2013-03-21T13:59:57 < Laurenceb> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/graphics-display-development-kits/0550435/
2013-03-21T14:00:07 < Laurenceb> thats in stock, but pricey
2013-03-21T14:00:13 < Laurenceb> better than sparkfun
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2013-03-21T14:24:17 < dongs> i think im gonna assemble bmp clones
2013-03-21T14:30:19 < Laurenceb> aspiesemble
2013-03-21T14:30:42 < Laurenceb> are these things for sale?
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2013-03-21T14:32:58 < donigs> i think i have parts for 3
2013-03-21T14:33:01 < Laurenceb> http://aspierhetor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/IMG_1459.jpg
2013-03-21T14:33:04 < donigs> and tectu wanted one or something.
2013-03-21T14:33:12 < Laurenceb> looks like something baird would be involved it
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2013-03-21T14:33:57 < Laurenceb> they also have Dasani water for added fail
2013-03-21T14:34:24 < Laurenceb> anyways, ill buy a BMP clone if one is free
2013-03-21T14:40:27 < Laurenceb> http://www.masimo.com/nellcorfiction/
2013-03-21T14:40:35 < Laurenceb> lolling @ corporate trolling
2013-03-21T14:56:05 < baird> Feh, I'm too old to have autism.
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2013-03-21T14:58:39 < baird> travelblog: http://boards.4chan.org/out/res/27317
2013-03-21T15:04:39 < Laurenceb> l0l 4chan
2013-03-21T15:09:42 < baird> lol going outside
2013-03-21T15:11:19 < Tectu> is anyone of you having a linker script for the stm32f407xE?
2013-03-21T15:11:39 < Tectu> or do I just have to change the memory sizes for the stm32f407xG?
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2013-03-21T15:12:49 < karlp> what else would be different?
2013-03-21T15:14:39 < Tectu> I'm not sure
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2013-03-21T15:22:28 < Tectu> is there a way to verify that the image has been written correctly into the MCU's FLASH using OpenOCD?
2013-03-21T15:22:40 < karlp> gdb can do "verify"
2013-03-21T15:24:24 < Tectu> as in examine?
2013-03-21T15:25:59 < dongs> gdb more like gaydb
2013-03-21T15:26:04 < gxti> whatever openocd command you're using probably has a verify option
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2013-03-21T15:37:58 < zyp> Tectu, compare-sections
2013-03-21T15:47:18 < Laurenceb> texane verifies
2013-03-21T15:47:40 < Laurenceb> dongs: they miss your trolling over at rcgroups
2013-03-21T15:47:54 < Laurenceb> theres a "bring back timecop" thread
2013-03-21T15:48:13 < donigs> emeb your bom for BMP2 is fucked, R6/7 are missing
2013-03-21T15:48:18 < donigs> they're obviosuily 330R or wahtever but still LAME
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2013-03-21T15:57:36 < karlp> gsmcmullin: have you thought about writing and update to this: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/blackmagicdebug/index.php?title=Setting_up_NetBeans now that the bugs are all fixed in the netbeans 7.3?
2013-03-21T15:57:42 < karlp> (or are they not actually all fixed yet?)
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2013-03-21T16:08:28 < donigs> Tectu: http://i.imgur.com/E5mwAy0.jpg heading to the oven
2013-03-21T16:09:44 < zyp> you could drop Q1
2013-03-21T16:09:51 < donigs> im sure
2013-03-21T16:10:04 < zyp> I've considered removing it from the ones I've assembled
2013-03-21T16:10:07 < donigs> i just followed the silly bom
2013-03-21T16:10:12 < gxti> remind me again what the end thing is suppoed to mate to?
2013-03-21T16:10:15 < donigs> that'll be job for tectu
2013-03-21T16:10:22 < donigs> gxti: some $3 edsge connector
2013-03-21T16:10:27 < donigs> those are getting put on too
2013-03-21T16:10:37 < gxti> oh, k
2013-03-21T16:10:53 < donigs> the board really sucks, no offense to emeb
2013-03-21T16:10:57 < donigs> probably due to opensores pcb cad
2013-03-21T16:10:59 < gxti> never seen it assembled so i assumed that *was* a board edge connector
2013-03-21T16:11:01 < donigs> the patterns are giant
2013-03-21T16:11:11 < donigs> like 0603s are big enough for 0805
2013-03-21T16:11:16 < zyp> the body diode of the fet feeds target power back into your vcc if target is powered but not bmp
2013-03-21T16:11:38 < zyp> which is kind of an annoyance
2013-03-21T16:11:49 < donigs> doesnt sound like a problem to me
2013-03-21T16:11:51 < zyp> gxti, http://bin.jvnv.net/f/vV9Bt.JPG
2013-03-21T16:12:09 < gxti> aha
2013-03-21T16:12:33 < gxti> mine is just the width of the 6-header
2013-03-21T16:12:39 < zyp> donigs, it's usually not, except when I'm trying to power cycle it while holding the bootloader button because I'm going to flash a new firmware
2013-03-21T16:13:08 < zyp> gxti, I requested that edge connector, and I'm pretty happy with how it turned out
2013-03-21T16:13:32 < gxti> i'm never going to use the ginormo ARM connector so yeah
2013-03-21T16:13:42 < zyp> because now it has convenient connectors for both common standards, in addition to the stlink-like header row
2013-03-21T16:14:33 < zyp> gxti, neither am I, but I might buy boards with it
2013-03-21T16:14:33 < gxti> i did keep the tiny cortex debug but i don't have any of those either, ideally i'd just have some sort of pogo pin thingy. or tag connect but i like using generic stuff.
2013-03-21T16:14:36 < zyp> like the waveshare board
2013-03-21T16:15:03 < zyp> the tag connect swd cable connects to the tiny cortex debug
2013-03-21T16:15:07 < donigs> and out of oven
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2013-03-21T16:26:23 < donigs> lol shitty fucking boards without boot1 pins etc
2013-03-21T16:26:54 < jpa-> what would anyone need boot1 for? i never understood it
2013-03-21T16:28:36 < Laurenceb> donigs: so is there a board free?
2013-03-21T16:28:39 < donigs> or boot0 wahtever
2013-03-21T16:28:40 < Laurenceb> s/free/spare
2013-03-21T16:28:45 < Laurenceb> ill pay for it :D
2013-03-21T16:28:45 < donigs> the shit that would let me bootload t his crap over uart
2013-03-21T16:28:53 < donigs> isntead of having to figure out what hte fuck this needs to work
2013-03-21T16:29:04 < donigs> zyp: got latest bmp firmware or wahtever for this
2013-03-21T16:29:06 < Laurenceb> jtag?
2013-03-21T16:29:11 < Laurenceb> yo dawg jtag
2013-03-21T16:29:11 < zyp> donigs, yes, at home
2013-03-21T16:29:15 < donigs> yeah but its nonstandard crap
2013-03-21T16:29:20 < donigs> ok, shelving this until zyp's home
2013-03-21T16:29:26 < donigs> beep me w/link or whatever whenever you get time
2013-03-21T16:29:48 < zyp> donigs, when I assembled mine I just hooked up swd to the pads next to the uart
2013-03-21T16:29:55 < zyp> those pads are for programming the chip
2013-03-21T16:29:59 < donigs> yea i knwo
2013-03-21T16:30:00 < zyp> and flashed the bootloader there
2013-03-21T16:30:02 < donigs> its not standard pinout
2013-03-21T16:30:08 < donigs> so i'd haveto make some ghetto cable etc
2013-03-21T16:30:49 < donigs> anyhow useless without firmware/bootloader/wahtever
2013-03-21T16:30:55 < donigs> does bootloader make it DFU or somesuch?
2013-03-21T16:30:57 < donigs> for updates
2013-03-21T16:30:59 < zyp> yes
2013-03-21T16:31:28 < zyp> I stuck flywires to the end of a long four-pin header, put the header through the holes and held it in place while flashing bootloader over swd
2013-03-21T16:31:39 < donigs> yea
2013-03-21T16:31:42 < donigs> thats probly what i will have ot do
2013-03-21T16:31:45 < zyp> fast and easy enough for five boards
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2013-03-21T16:31:50 < donigs> yeah
2013-03-21T16:31:52 < donigs> lol, you made 5?
2013-03-21T16:31:57 < donigs> did you sell them all?
2013-03-21T16:32:10 < zyp> no, I like having several
2013-03-21T16:33:11 < zyp> one is currently taped to the quadrotor, one is running a firmware with lpc workarounds and one is borrowed away to a friend
2013-03-21T16:33:28 < jpa-> send me the other two, i need them
2013-03-21T16:34:04 < zyp> :p
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2013-03-21T16:34:18 < zyp> I have six if you count the original old bmp
2013-03-21T16:34:37 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/n71NA.JPG
2013-03-21T16:35:12 < donigs> well wahtevers.
2013-03-21T16:35:18 < donigs> gonna put it away until you find firmware
2013-03-21T16:35:28 < donigs> can you dump whole thing w/o dfu incase there arent any windows tools for it
2013-03-21T16:35:30 < jpa-> hmm the original has 10x2 pin 2.54mm pitch header? why didn't anyone tell me
2013-03-21T16:35:37 < donigs> as a hex or so
2013-03-21T16:35:37 < jpa-> i thought it only had that tiny one
2013-03-21T16:35:55 < zyp> donigs, is bin fine?
2013-03-21T16:36:03 < donigs> zyp: hex or whatever i guess is fine
2013-03-21T16:36:14 < zyp> ah, I have hex as well
2013-03-21T16:37:11 < donigs> anyway later is fine
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2013-03-21T16:38:02 < donigs> im wondering why its not enumerating usb fail-way without firmware
2013-03-21T16:38:12 < donigs> is that 1.5k pullup on some sorta switch?
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2013-03-21T16:39:22 < zyp> yes
2013-03-21T16:39:31 < donigs> wasting a gpio on the other end?
2013-03-21T16:39:38 < zyp> it's just hooked to a gpio, that's tristated by default
2013-03-21T16:39:39 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/kJ0QB/blackmagic_dfu.hex
2013-03-21T16:39:57 < donigs> argh
2013-03-21T16:40:30 < donigs> why the fuck isnt swd on f4dfisco labeled???
2013-03-21T16:40:38 < donigs> pinout
2013-03-21T16:40:50 < zyp> it's same as the 6-pin header on the bmp2
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2013-03-21T16:41:34 < donigs> here's the guy responsible for all this mess ^
2013-03-21T16:41:42 < Laurenceb> DONIGS
2013-03-21T16:41:48 < Laurenceb> is the a board spare?
2013-03-21T16:42:14 < Laurenceb> also, wtf happened to texane ? its saying theres no devices detected on one of my PCs
2013-03-21T16:42:35 < Laurenceb> any ideas what i failed at? autotools ran ok
2013-03-21T16:43:32 < jpa-> usb permissions
2013-03-21T16:43:41 < jpa-> lunix is preventing you from messing things up
2013-03-21T16:45:26 < donigs> what the fuck
2013-03-21T16:45:30 < donigs> zyp: what the fuck is that hex file
2013-03-21T16:45:35 < donigs> crossworks cant load it
2013-03-21T16:45:38 < Laurenceb> rage
2013-03-21T16:45:39 < zyp> dunno
2013-03-21T16:45:41 < zyp> want a bin?
2013-03-21T16:45:43 < Laurenceb> use sudo?
2013-03-21T16:45:55 < jpa-> looks fine to me
2013-03-21T16:46:07 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/0XiX2/blackmagic_dfu.bin
2013-03-21T16:47:01 < zyp> and if that still fails, here's the elf: http://bin.jvnv.net/f/BFRNm/blackmagic_dfu
2013-03-21T16:47:08 < Laurenceb> how do i fix it to have permission?
2013-03-21T16:47:19 < Laurenceb> yeah it works with sudo
2013-03-21T16:47:37 < zyp> https://github.com/texane/stlink/blob/master/49-stlinkv2.rules
2013-03-21T16:47:44 < zyp> put that in your udev directory
2013-03-21T16:48:00 < zyp> /etc/udev/rules.d/
2013-03-21T16:48:04 < Laurenceb> oh i see in "INSTALL"
2013-03-21T16:48:07 < Laurenceb> ok thanks
2013-03-21T16:49:37 < donigs> fuckign trash
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2013-03-21T16:51:05 < donigs> now error led is blinking
2013-03-21T16:51:33 < zyp> bootloader does that
2013-03-21T16:52:40 < zyp> here's the actual firmware: http://bin.jvnv.net/f/UzFrs/blackmagic.bin
2013-03-21T16:52:57 < donigs> but bootloader still doesntt enumerate usb
2013-03-21T16:53:22 < zyp> try keeping the button pressed while plugging it in
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2013-03-21T16:54:03 < donigs> doesnt make any diff
2013-03-21T16:55:19 < zyp> hmm, maybe somebody broke the bootloader, I haven't tested the latest bootloader
2013-03-21T16:57:57 < donigs> oh well will dick with it later
2013-03-21T16:57:59 < donigs> at least hardware is done
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2013-03-21T17:08:58 < zyp> I wouldn't be surprised if uwebonnes broke it, he seems to like breaking stuff :p
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2013-03-21T17:22:16  * emeb reads the log
2013-03-21T17:22:36 < emeb> donigs is ragging on my bmp2 design
2013-03-21T17:22:41 < zyp> :p
2013-03-21T17:25:09 -!- alexn [~alexn@93.104.205.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2013-03-21T17:25:18 < donigs> by ragging I think you mean raging
2013-03-21T17:25:32 < donigs> anyhow whatever sleeptime
2013-03-21T17:25:36 < emeb> donigs: that would be the more modern interpretation
2013-03-21T17:25:50 < emeb> ragging is somewhat older slang
2013-03-21T17:26:31 < emeb> ragging / bagging / complaining etc
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2013-03-21T17:30:08 < donigs> ya aware, was just trolling
2013-03-21T17:32:14 < emeb> :)
2013-03-21T17:35:55 < Tectu> dongs, bmp2 problems?
2013-03-21T17:38:02 < jpa-> one day someone will invent a chip that you can just put on a pcb and program.. http://hackaday.com/2013/03/20/cuteuino-only-use-the-parts-of-the-arduino-that-you-need-for-each-project/
2013-03-21T17:38:38 < Tectu> jpa-, hopefully
2013-03-21T17:39:21 < zyp> jpa-, like anything that comes with a usb bootloader?
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2013-03-21T18:22:52 < emeb> next application for accel/gyro/etc : http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/03/21/apple-looks-to-protect-dropped-iphones-by-shifting-their-orientation-mid-flight
2013-03-21T18:25:02 < zyp> that's some fun ideas
2013-03-21T18:25:30 < jpa-> why would they use excentric mass for that?
2013-03-21T18:25:50 < zyp> existing vibration motor.
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2013-03-21T18:26:08 < zyp> I like the «grip the plug»-idea
2013-03-21T18:26:11 < jpa-> somehow it seems very inadequate
2013-03-21T18:26:37 < emeb> the mass ratio of the eccentric vs total phone seems unlikely to work
2013-03-21T18:27:51 < emeb> grip the plug would work if the phones are secured to something else (ears, pocket, etc). Not a sure thing tho.
2013-03-21T18:28:14 < zyp> anything is usually better than nothing
2013-03-21T18:28:14 < emeb> lol compressed air jets.
2013-03-21T18:28:19 < jpa-> indeed, it's probably like 1:50 so it would have to accelerate to more than 3000 RPM to let the phone rotate 90° before it hits the floor
2013-03-21T18:28:48 < jpa-> no airbags?
2013-03-21T18:28:55 < emeb> deply parachute.
2013-03-21T18:28:59 < emeb> deploy
2013-03-21T18:29:09 < jpa-> or escape rockets
2013-03-21T18:29:12 < jpa-> "so long, sucker"
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2013-03-21T18:29:22 < emeb> hits ceiling
2013-03-21T18:29:28 < emeb> instead
2013-03-21T18:30:08 < emeb> that's a pretty funny patent tho - it's all speculation / hand-waving.
2013-03-21T18:30:29 < emeb> "If I had some ham, I could have a ham and cheese sandwich, if I had some cheese"
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2013-03-21T18:31:49 < emeb> I wonder how the yearly volume of patents would be affected if applicants had to demonstrate that they'd actually done _any_ work to implement the ideas (simulation, prototyping, etc)
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2013-03-21T18:53:36 < Laurenceb> the vibration motor might work
2013-03-21T18:53:42 < Laurenceb> if ti could spin crazy fast
2013-03-21T18:54:04 < Laurenceb> so probably not practical unless its designed especially for phone rotation
2013-03-21T18:54:25 < Laurenceb> i know, disposable solid fuel retrorockets
2013-03-21T18:54:37 < Laurenceb> or you know just use a case
2013-03-21T18:56:05 < emeb> I wonder - what's the best orientation for an object to fall onto a flat surface that minimizes overall shock loading.
2013-03-21T18:57:22 < jpa-> hmm.. one way could be to pre-spin the vibration motor for example always when the phone is on, and then stop it quickly
2013-03-21T18:57:34 < zyp> completely flat, I'd bet
2013-03-21T18:57:57 < zyp> the large surface area should make an air cushion
2013-03-21T18:57:58 < Laurenceb> jpa-: spinning up the motor will give some torque...
2013-03-21T18:58:07 < Laurenceb> hmm lets work this out
2013-03-21T18:58:17 < Laurenceb> tho there is little point, as its now been patented :P
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2013-03-21T18:58:48 < Laurenceb> say you use a high moment of inertia motor design
2013-03-21T18:58:59 < Laurenceb> so like 1gram cm^2
2013-03-21T18:59:06 < zyp> of course, that relies on the surface also being flat
2013-03-21T18:59:22 < Laurenceb> that spins crazy fast at 60k rpm
2013-03-21T18:59:24 < zyp> if it's uneven, it's probably a great way to smash the display
2013-03-21T18:59:35 < Laurenceb> phone is like...
2013-03-21T18:59:51 < Laurenceb> 10000gram cm^2
2013-03-21T18:59:55 < Laurenceb> or something
2013-03-21T19:00:15 < Laurenceb> so you might get 6rpm in the phone
2013-03-21T19:00:19 < Laurenceb> fail
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2013-03-21T19:00:35 < Laurenceb> never going to work
2013-03-21T19:00:58 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2013-03-21T19:02:16 < Laurenceb> wtf bitcoin?! its at $72
2013-03-21T19:02:20 < Laurenceb> just up and up
2013-03-21T19:02:23 < Erlkoenig> oh the F4 Disco's Reset button is (of course) also connected to the SWD-Headers Reset pin... very handy
2013-03-21T19:02:27 < jpa-> it wouldn't be huge power though.. just a few mJ of energy to get 5 revolutions per second, so 
2013-03-21T19:02:42 < Laurenceb> jpa-: you but you need the inertia
2013-03-21T19:02:47 < Laurenceb> from somewhere...
2013-03-21T19:03:04 < Laurenceb> i know - if you have a removable back cover
2013-03-21T19:03:12 < Laurenceb> it could fly off
2013-03-21T19:03:33 < jpa-> the air pressure thing is not that far-fetched
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2013-03-21T19:03:59 < zyp> manufacturers seems to ditch removable back covers nowadays
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2013-03-21T19:04:07 < jpa-> a very small CO2 capsule could be enough
2013-03-21T19:04:19 < Laurenceb> lolz
2013-03-21T19:04:21 < jpa-> though it would be one-use
2013-03-21T19:04:29 < Laurenceb> i think back cover is the only practical way
2013-03-21T19:04:38 < jpa-> it's not practical :D
2013-03-21T19:04:53 < Laurenceb> if it was spring loaded and could be unclipped from one of three different point
2013-03-21T19:05:08 < Laurenceb> then it will impart a ton of rotational inertia
2013-03-21T19:05:15 < zyp> my phone tends to fall off my nightstand every morning
2013-03-21T19:05:16 < jpa-> "yay my phone didn't break, it exploded in mid-air" :)
2013-03-21T19:05:19 < emeb> zyp: I'd guess flat, face up would be best too.
2013-03-21T19:05:41 < zyp> emeb, I didn't say face down
2013-03-21T19:05:51 < emeb> zyp: I know.
2013-03-21T19:06:04 < jpa-> you should have glass on both sides, of course
2013-03-21T19:06:11 < zyp> I have.
2013-03-21T19:06:13 < zyp> :p
2013-03-21T19:06:16 < Laurenceb> wonder if wax actuators would work
2013-03-21T19:06:17 < emeb> like current iphone.
2013-03-21T19:06:24 < zyp> and nexus 4
2013-03-21T19:06:27 < Laurenceb> for back panel spring off
2013-03-21T19:06:38 < jpa-> Laurenceb: sounds one-use
2013-03-21T19:06:49 < Laurenceb> wax is "a few" use
2013-03-21T19:06:57 < jpa-> elecrtomagnetic or piezo solenoid clips shouldn't be too difficult
2013-03-21T19:07:02 < Laurenceb> too big
2013-03-21T19:07:04 < emeb> Laurenceb: right - all faces of the case are spring loaded. When a fall is in progress, all sides spring out to act as shock aborbers.
2013-03-21T19:07:10 < Laurenceb> lol
2013-03-21T19:07:16 < emeb> then you just snap them back into place afterwards.
2013-03-21T19:07:23 < Laurenceb> i guess it might be feasible
2013-03-21T19:07:23 < emeb> cocking for the next event.
2013-03-21T19:07:28 < Laurenceb> with spring steel
2013-03-21T19:07:39 < Laurenceb> thats what baird likes to do
2013-03-21T19:07:40 < jpa-> so a shock absorber made of glass..
2013-03-21T19:07:56 < Laurenceb> lol jpa-
2013-03-21T19:08:10 < emeb> jpa-: glass, backed up by a spring.
2013-03-21T19:08:19 < jpa-> hmm.. maybe a spider web could shoot out of a hole to grab the ceiling
2013-03-21T19:08:22 < Laurenceb> another iphone
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2013-03-21T19:08:27 < zyp> then you run and jump with your phone in your pocket and have it deploy there :p
2013-03-21T19:08:29 < Laurenceb> glues to the back
2013-03-21T19:08:50 < jpa-> emeb: still, the glass does take the hit first and it does have quite a bit of mass on its own also
2013-03-21T19:08:51 < emeb> zyp: is that a deployed phone in your pocket or...
2013-03-21T19:09:09 < emeb> jpa-: yeah. have to be pretty tough glass.
2013-03-21T19:09:18 < zyp> free fall of a phone can't be that dfferent from free fall of a body with a pocket with a phone
2013-03-21T19:09:32 < zyp> in terms of sensed acceleratiob
2013-03-21T19:09:35 < jpa-> hmm.. or maybe you could detect when the grip of the user is weakening and apply glue between the hand and the phone
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2013-03-21T19:09:47 < emeb> tractor beams.
2013-03-21T19:10:01 < emeb> frikken lasers
2013-03-21T19:10:06 < jpa-> zyp: yes.. my old laptop used to go "beep beep" whenever i sat down (falling backwards) on bed
2013-03-21T19:10:34 < zyp> yeah, mine goes *click*
2013-03-21T19:12:20 < emeb> HD going into safe mode?
2013-03-21T19:12:28 < jpa-> or then they could just use plain old plastic on the screens.. it might get a little bit scratched, but the display survives
2013-03-21T19:14:20 < Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax_thermostatic_element
2013-03-21T19:17:22 < Laurenceb> you can use the same technique for microactuators
2013-03-21T19:18:59 < sterna1> fuck, my stm32f4discovery just died :(
2013-03-21T19:19:09 < sterna1> and I have no idea how it happended
2013-03-21T19:19:14 < sterna1> it just suddenly died
2013-03-21T19:19:17 < emeb> you touched it didn't you.
2013-03-21T19:19:18 < zyp> did you drop things on it?
2013-03-21T19:19:22 < Laurenceb> did you drop something on it?
2013-03-21T19:19:29 < Laurenceb> like a concrete block?
2013-03-21T19:19:34 < Laurenceb> or a JDAM?
2013-03-21T19:19:38 < sterna1> and, no, I didn't drop something on it
2013-03-21T19:19:45 < sterna1> I even have a small box for it
2013-03-21T19:19:46 < jpa-> sterna1: how did you determine that it died?
2013-03-21T19:19:59 < Laurenceb> did you drop a small box on it?
2013-03-21T19:20:03 < zyp> probably because it's not alive anymore
2013-03-21T19:20:10 < sterna1> well, it's not dead, it just wotn program
2013-03-21T19:20:22 < jpa-> sterna1: did you program something that uses the sleep mode?
2013-03-21T19:20:37 < sterna1> I'm only using the st-link part
2013-03-21T19:20:44 < sterna1> and I think reset got stuck somehow
2013-03-21T19:20:50 < sterna1> going to take some measurements
2013-03-21T19:20:54 < zyp> ah, you removed the Idd jumper
2013-03-21T19:21:17 < zyp> put it back.
2013-03-21T19:21:26 < Erlkoenig> press&hold reset button before power up, flash it while keeping reset pressed
2013-03-21T19:21:30 < sterna1> whihc jumper?
2013-03-21T19:21:37 < zyp> the one labeled Idd
2013-03-21T19:21:54 < jpa-> i love the Idd jumper.. because of it i have spent 6 months the little leds blink all day long
2013-03-21T19:22:01 < jpa-> +watching
2013-03-21T19:22:12 < sterna1> the idd jumper shouldn't affect the programmer
2013-03-21T19:22:16 < jpa-> it does
2013-03-21T19:22:19 < jpa-> the reset is in parallel
2013-03-21T19:22:21 < zyp> jpa-, I bet you love watching leds blink anyway
2013-03-21T19:22:24 < Erlkoenig> the programmer doesn't work if it doesn't see a chip
2013-03-21T19:22:29 < jpa-> zyp: it's better than programming
2013-03-21T19:22:43 < jpa-> Erlkoenig: that's a different bug
2013-03-21T19:23:03 < Erlkoenig> and it doesn't see a chip without Idd i guess
2013-03-21T19:23:04 < zyp> sterna1, just trust me, I'm right ;)
2013-03-21T19:23:14 < emeb> he usually is
2013-03-21T19:23:23 < jpa-> sterna1: zyp is right, you need the Idd jumper :)
2013-03-21T19:23:43 < sterna1> hmm, I've got 250ohms between ground and reset
2013-03-21T19:23:48 < sterna1> not good :/
2013-03-21T19:24:01 < jpa-> sterna1: *did* you remove the Idd jumper?
2013-03-21T19:24:04 < sterna1> no
2013-03-21T19:24:07 < jpa-> ok :)
2013-03-21T19:24:09 < sterna1> I have never touched it
2013-03-21T19:24:16 < jpa-> then it is something else :)
2013-03-21T19:24:19 < Erlkoenig> disconnected the other two jumpersß :D
2013-03-21T19:24:43 < Erlkoenig> press&hold reset button while power up and flashing
2013-03-21T19:24:55 < zyp> ohming between ground and reset is pretty pointless, it'll go through TVS diodes and whatnot
2013-03-21T19:25:13 < Erlkoenig> ohming :D
2013-03-21T19:25:13 < jpa-> voltage measurement on reset is meaningful
2013-03-21T19:25:21 < zyp> yes
2013-03-21T19:25:25 < jpa-> or, like zyp would say, "volting"
2013-03-21T19:25:35 < jpa-> if you want to be sure, revolt it
2013-03-21T19:25:48 < sterna1> reset is at .5V
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2013-03-21T19:26:16 < jpa-> sterna1: and it worked with that board before?
2013-03-21T19:26:20 < sterna1> yes
2013-03-21T19:26:30 < sterna1> I was using it to program, and just suddenly it died
2013-03-21T19:26:37 < sterna1> or, stopped working
2013-03-21T19:26:45 < zyp> did you plug it out and back in again?
2013-03-21T19:26:49 < sterna1> yes
2013-03-21T19:26:51 < jpa-> i assume you have already tried reconnecting the stlink to usb?
2013-03-21T19:26:52 < jpa-> ah
2013-03-21T19:27:15 < sterna1> there is definitely some shortage here
2013-03-21T19:27:26 < jpa-> hmm.. core lockup doesn't affect nrst, right?
2013-03-21T19:28:10 < zyp> no
2013-03-21T19:28:22 < zyp> and nrst doesn't affect swd attach either
2013-03-21T19:28:47 < jpa-> if he is using texane, it doesn't differentiate very well between the causes of failed programming
2013-03-21T19:28:54 < sterna1> I'm using oocd
2013-03-21T19:28:54 < zyp> (please, no sleep/wakeup tangent)
2013-03-21T19:29:11 < jpa-> (ok, not then :)
2013-03-21T19:29:27 < jpa-> (lets wait while he is busy ohming the line :)
2013-03-21T19:29:37 < sterna1> right, time for some soldering action
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2013-03-21T19:45:08 < Laurenceb> www3.imperial.ac.uk/pls/portallive/docs/1/31449706.PDF
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2013-03-21T20:07:10 < sterna1> hmm, seems like the reset pin on the st-link is dead
2013-03-21T20:07:38 < sterna1> it's constantly at about 0.5V and nothing happens when I program
2013-03-21T20:09:21 < sterna1> I compared it to another working board
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2013-03-21T20:09:33 < sterna1> and it seems to toogle the pin
2013-03-21T20:10:04 < sterna1> so, I stand by my claim: stm32-discoveryboards are some of the most sensitive electronic equipment ever
2013-03-21T20:10:53 < gxti> your claim seems unfounded
2013-03-21T20:16:20 < sterna1> mine died for no apparen reason and my friend has killed several (not all of them were killed by dropping things one them)
2013-03-21T20:16:26 -!- trepidaciousMBR [~trepidaci@176.62.208.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2013-03-21T20:16:29 < sterna1> at least one of his died without any reason
2013-03-21T20:16:35 < sterna1> visible reason at least
2013-03-21T20:17:00 < karlp> whatever man,
2013-03-21T20:17:07 < karlp> mine get beaten up pretty badly
2013-03-21T20:17:14 < karlp> one of them had beer spilt on it.
2013-03-21T20:17:35 < sterna1> haha
2013-03-21T20:18:21 < sterna1> oh, right, at my work they killed of a couple of them as well
2013-03-21T20:18:44 < sterna1> they worked with large bldc-contoller however...
2013-03-21T20:20:53 < jpa-> never had a board break for me
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2013-03-21T20:34:04 < sterna1> stm32vl-discovery has stlinkv2 on them, right?
2013-03-21T20:34:57 < ossifrage> So I think I've found the source of my usart overruns...
2013-03-21T20:35:11 < sterna1> ossifrage: oh, what was it?
2013-03-21T20:35:30 < ossifrage> I implemented the critical sections of the usart code using nvic_disable_irq() / nvic_enable_irq()
2013-03-21T20:35:51 < sterna1> sounds resonable
2013-03-21T20:35:54 < ossifrage> which would be fine except for the low priority long running interrupts
2013-03-21T20:36:16 < ossifrage> what happens is I enter the critical section and disable usart interrupts
2013-03-21T20:36:29 < ossifrage> and then the low priority interrupt comes along inside the critical section
2013-03-21T20:36:34 < ossifrage> and boom I go over budget
2013-03-21T20:36:55 < zyp> doesn't sound like a very good design to me
2013-03-21T20:37:03 < zyp> why do you need to disable interrupts?
2013-03-21T20:37:14 < gxti> how can a "low priority interrupt" affect a "critical section" in the first place?
2013-03-21T20:37:33 < ossifrage> I'm only disabling the usart interrupt, it seemed like a good idea at the time
2013-03-21T20:37:49 < zyp> a good idea for achieving what?
2013-03-21T20:38:16 < ossifrage> I need to disable interrupts to be able to sample the buffer flags
2013-03-21T20:38:21 < zyp> and long running interrupts sounds like a pretty bad idea as well
2013-03-21T20:38:29 < zyp> why?
2013-03-21T20:39:00 < zyp> are you touching the same uart both from ISR and thread context?
2013-03-21T20:39:13 < ossifrage> the long running interrupt is long relative to the byte time for the usart
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2013-03-21T20:39:31 < zyp> yes, and byte times are usually on the order of several milliseconds
2013-03-21T20:39:47 < zyp> umm, microseconds*
2013-03-21T20:39:57 < ossifrage> the byte time was only about 1000 clocks
2013-03-21T20:40:10 < ossifrage> (and I'd rather run things faster)
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2013-03-21T20:40:45 < zyp> ok, fair enough
2013-03-21T20:41:06 < zyp> but I still don't see how turning off interrupts would help
2013-03-21T20:41:27 < ossifrage> I think I was being over aggressive trying to protect the head and tail pointers
2013-03-21T20:42:09 < zyp> so anyway, are you reading the uart from thread mode or from the ISR?
2013-03-21T20:42:26 < ossifrage> no threads, just simple ISRs
2013-03-21T20:42:35 < zyp> thread-mode means non-ISR
2013-03-21T20:42:52 < zyp> i.e. what is running when you aren't handling interrupts
2013-03-21T20:42:56 < ossifrage> okay, I have isrs and a single main thread
2013-03-21T20:43:05 < zyp> yes, I get that much
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2013-03-21T20:43:20 < zyp> so are you reading the uart data register in the uart ISR or in the main thread?
2013-03-21T20:43:38 < zyp> (or with DMA, which would be the third way of doing it)
2013-03-21T20:43:43 < ossifrage> my main() is processing data from the host and queuing commands that are handled by isrs
2013-03-21T20:44:19 < ossifrage> looking at the code more closely I really didn't need to protect the head and tail pointers quite the way I was
2013-03-21T20:44:21 < zyp> yes, but you are talking about bytes lost at reception now, right?
2013-03-21T20:44:48 < zyp> because the long running interrupt is keeping the cpu busy while new bytes are coming in
2013-03-21T20:45:23 < ossifrage> yup, the problem was that I was turning off the high priority interrupt so I could update the head/tail pointers it uses
2013-03-21T20:46:44 < ossifrage> I should either only disable all lower priority interrupts, globally disable interrupts or avoid disabling them all together
2013-03-21T20:46:51 < zyp> just update them with conditional instructions
2013-03-21T20:46:57 < zyp> ldrex/strex
2013-03-21T20:55:58 < Erlkoenig> the Gnu from the GNU logo looks so stoned
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2013-03-21T22:17:13 < Tectu> let the 20-pole JTAG connector flamewar beginn
2013-03-21T22:17:14 < Tectu> http://www.abload.de/img/img_000000198wbf4.jpg
2013-03-21T22:18:22 -!- DaKu is now known as daku
2013-03-21T22:18:29 < GargantuaSauce> quite a heatsink you got there, is the supply voltage ridiculously high or something
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2013-03-21T22:19:07 < Tectu> GargantuaSauce, the 7805 there delivers about 1A at a voltage drop of 7V
2013-03-21T22:19:31 < GargantuaSauce> oh so its supplying for peripherals too
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2013-03-21T22:19:47 < Tectu> yes
2013-03-21T22:19:52 < Tectu> that board is just some kind of bridge
2013-03-21T22:19:53 < GargantuaSauce> makes sense then, carry on
2013-03-21T22:20:17 < Tectu> it's the first time I made a board with an ARM controller
2013-03-21T22:20:19 < Tectu> also DIY board
2013-03-21T22:20:31 < zyp> also looks pretty wtf
2013-03-21T22:20:49 < zyp> must have been fun etching
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2013-03-21T22:21:15 < Tectu> zyp, wtf in what manner?
2013-03-21T22:21:24 < Tectu> and it took about 10 tries ^^
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2013-03-21T22:21:58 < zyp> well
2013-03-21T22:22:26 < zyp> «why the fuck did you etch away huge areas of cu?»
2013-03-21T22:22:44 < qyx_> hm, what is needed for dfu on f103? power supply, usb + 3 resistors, connected boot0&1?
2013-03-21T22:22:44 < zyp> looks like a horrible waste of etchant
2013-03-21T22:22:47 < qyx_> nothing more?
2013-03-21T22:22:58 < Tectu> zyp, it quite is
2013-03-21T22:22:58 < zyp> qyx_, F1 has no built in dfu bootloader
2013-03-21T22:23:12 < qyx_> omg, didnt check that
2013-03-21T22:23:28 < zyp> Tectu, so why didn't you fill the open areas?
2013-03-21T22:23:32 < qyx_> actually i never used usb on stm32
2013-03-21T22:23:41 < Tectu> zyp, I must have forgot it
2013-03-21T22:23:49 < Tectu> I'm awfully sorry
2013-03-21T22:24:11 < zyp> well, I don't care, it's not my etchant you wasted :p
2013-03-21T22:24:23 < Tectu> mine either ^^
2013-03-21T22:24:26 < zyp> also, that's probably why you required ten tries as well
2013-03-21T22:24:58 < Tectu> no, everything there was old, the PCBs have been over dated for 5 years
2013-03-21T22:25:07 < zyp> because stuff like that makes it pretty easy to etch away thin traces before you are done etching the huge open areas
2013-03-21T22:25:15 < Tectu> the resolution liquid (is it called that way?) needed to be changed etc
2013-03-21T22:25:17 < Laurenceb__> wtf
2013-03-21T22:25:24 < Laurenceb__> that board is silly
2013-03-21T22:25:28 < Tectu> Laurenceb__, yes.
2013-03-21T22:25:38 < gsmcmullin> karlp: I don't think the pause bug is fixed.  I got tired of bothering them.
2013-03-21T22:25:58 < gsmcmullin> zyp: Is that an old bootloader binary?  It was broken, but I thought I've fixed it.
2013-03-21T22:26:58 < zyp> gsmcmullin, it's from the last pull request I sent you, did you change it since?
2013-03-21T22:27:24 < zyp> ah, you changed bootloader
2013-03-21T22:27:33 < zyp> then that explains it, I guess
2013-03-21T22:28:52 < Tectu> Laurenceb__, there are reasons for that board
2013-03-21T22:31:18 < BrainDamage> laurenceb: http://hackaday.com/2013/03/21/words-of-wisdom-from-a-maker-entrepreneur/
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2013-03-21T22:34:08 < Laurenceb__> that thing is... weird
2013-03-21T22:35:15 < zyp> looks like a typical thing with a typical feature set from those synth guys
2013-03-21T22:35:36 < zyp> I've seen pretty similar stuff before, except this one was with arcade buttons
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2013-03-21T22:37:05 < flop> Can I run linux on the stm32?
2013-03-21T22:37:35 < GargantuaSauce> if you're a masochist
2013-03-21T22:38:01 < zyp> yes, it's possible, no, we haven't done it
2013-03-21T22:38:49 < zyp> you most likely will need to hook up external memory to make it possible
2013-03-21T22:39:06 < flop> sure
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2013-03-21T22:39:42 < Laurenceb__> supposedly someone ran it on F4discovery
2013-03-21T22:39:48 < Laurenceb__> with no extra ram
2013-03-21T22:39:50 < flop> but does the stm32 has mmu?
2013-03-21T22:39:54 < GargantuaSauce> no
2013-03-21T22:40:05 < GargantuaSauce> hence the masochism
2013-03-21T22:40:07 < GargantuaSauce> use a SoC
2013-03-21T22:40:31 < flop> then how would it be possible to run linux on them?
2013-03-21T22:40:49 < BrainDamage> linux mainline has uclinux integrated now
2013-03-21T22:40:50 < GargantuaSauce> by losing much of its functionality as an operating system
2013-03-21T22:41:10 < GargantuaSauce> seriously you probably don't want to do this
2013-03-21T22:41:10 < BrainDamage> which lets it operate in mmu-less envs
2013-03-21T22:41:35 < BrainDamage> but if I understand correctly, you have no separation between kernel space and userspace ...
2013-03-21T22:41:58 < zyp> BrainDamage, if it supports mpu, it's fine
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2013-03-21T22:42:28 < zyp> the mpu has all the protection features of an mmu, just not the remapping
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2013-03-21T22:46:37 < Erlkoenig> hmm apparantly  fried the F4 Disco... maybe shorted some pins of the pinheaders... without the Idd jumper it powers up, power LED on, ST-Link enumerates, but also LED7 and 8 are on (indicating Bus power and Bus power fault of the Micro USB)... Inserting Idd apparantly causes a shortcircuit. did i kill the F4? :/
2013-03-21T22:47:12 < GargantuaSauce> mine failed exactly the same way
2013-03-21T22:47:43 < zyp> sounds like you've killed the F4, yes
2013-03-21T22:47:49 < Erlkoenig> shit :/
2013-03-21T22:48:11 < GargantuaSauce> that's why i bought a few
2013-03-21T22:48:14 < zyp> overvoltage is the common reason, and the common result is the chip shorting vdd to gnd
2013-03-21T22:48:15 < GargantuaSauce> they're only $15 after all..
2013-03-21T22:48:36 < Erlkoenig> zyp: by accidentally connecting the 5V rail to the F4's Vdd?
2013-03-21T22:48:47 < zyp> that sounds like a possibility, yes
2013-03-21T22:50:15 < mervaka> boom
2013-03-21T22:50:35 < mervaka> check D1
2013-03-21T22:50:41 < Erlkoenig> still alive
2013-03-21T22:50:53 < GargantuaSauce> the ldo can also fail and pass vin to vout if the voltage on the 5v rail is too high i think
2013-03-21T22:50:53 < Erlkoenig> as the ST-Link chip works
2013-03-21T22:50:57 < mervaka> D1 on the disco board is apparently quite a common killed.
2013-03-21T22:51:03 < mervaka> killer*
2013-03-21T22:51:30 < Erlkoenig> GargantuaSauce: hm the 5V rail didn'T see overvoltage, i think
2013-03-21T22:52:21 < Laurenceb__> interesting - the ST mems sensors have a ground plane exposed around the sides of the package
2013-03-21T22:52:36 < Laurenceb__> looks like part of the FR4 that the dies are laid out on
2013-03-21T22:53:00 < Laurenceb__> i had a short from vcc to gnd via an lsm303 on one of my dataloggers
2013-03-21T22:53:12 < zyp> blame shitty soldering
2013-03-21T22:53:32 < Laurenceb__> lol
2013-03-21T22:55:03 < emeb> flop: ds2 runs uclinux on stm32
2013-03-21T22:55:22 < Erlkoenig> argh, because NRST seems to be effectively connected to GND i can't use it as just ST/Link either :/
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2013-03-21T22:56:24 < zyp> Erlkoenig, unsolder SB11 on the bottom to disconnect nrst from F4
2013-03-21T22:57:18 < Erlkoenig> hm thanks... could do it at the uni, they have a better iron
2013-03-21T22:58:01 < zyp> you are just pulling of a 0R resistor, what's the problem? :p
2013-03-21T22:58:26 < Erlkoenig> that i have a very clunky iron :D
2013-03-21T22:58:36 < zyp> add some solder on each side, put the iron beside or on top of it to heat both sides at the same time, push it away when it melts
2013-03-21T23:00:06 < Erlkoenig> hmmm will try later... continue my work with the 2nd disco... but my project needs two :S
2013-03-21T23:00:38 < mervaka> can you block test?
2013-03-21T23:00:52 < Erlkoenig> hu wat?
2013-03-21T23:01:22 < zyp> no point, it's unlikely to be something else than the F4 itself
2013-03-21T23:02:05 < mervaka> in other news, a colleague has overheard i may be offered a research position at the uni :s
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2013-03-21T23:02:37 < mervaka> don't know what that entails, but cant be bad if it's true.
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2013-03-21T23:03:08 < GargantuaSauce> hopefully it entails actual research
2013-03-21T23:03:10 < GargantuaSauce> mine sure doesn't
2013-03-21T23:03:21 < Erlkoenig> researching the copying machine
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2013-03-21T23:14:59 < emeb> emptying garbage cans
2013-03-21T23:15:02 < emeb> sweeping floors
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2013-03-21T23:15:59 < emeb> I had a research position at a uni physics dept in HS. Consisted of maintaining a database for conference speakers at a symposium.
2013-03-21T23:16:49 < emeb> still had a blast tho - lots of cool toys to play with (computers! lasers! liquid helium!)
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2013-03-21T23:34:00 < Tectu> anyone here using kicad?
2013-03-21T23:34:07 < Tectu> is it a tool which is recommendable for home use?
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2013-03-21T23:50:52 < emeb> Tectu: I've used Kicad in the past. It's OK.
2013-03-21T23:51:05 < emeb> a few things about it that bug me, but some nice features too.
2013-03-21T23:51:13 < Tectu> why did you change?
2013-03-21T23:51:17 < Tectu> and to what did you change?
2013-03-21T23:51:41 < emeb> I started out using geda. I used kicad for a project with a client because they used it.
2013-03-21T23:51:53 < emeb> I went back to using geda just due to inertia.
2013-03-21T23:52:45 < emeb> (all my unusual component libraries, etc)
2013-03-21T23:53:40 < emeb> the most recent project I did though was in Diptrace. That's payware, but fairly nice.
--- Day changed Fri Mar 22 2013
2013-03-22T00:00:30 < mervaka> the uni uses proteus.
2013-03-22T00:00:49 < mervaka> it's alright, but has its limits, especially in the PCB stage.
2013-03-22T00:24:58 < sterna1> fuck, what did I do to deserve this?
2013-03-22T00:25:07 < sterna1> now I beleive my microcontroller died as well
2013-03-22T00:25:36 < sterna1> it stopped updating it's program (it still looks like it can be programmed from openocd)
2013-03-22T00:25:43 < sterna1> then I tried another programmer
2013-03-22T00:25:53 < sterna1> this erased the program fully and now it does nothing
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2013-03-22T00:42:10 < Erlkoenig> sterna1: i killed me µC too :3
2013-03-22T00:42:30 < Erlkoenig> sterna1: tried ST-Link utility?
2013-03-22T00:43:57 < sterna1> it worked before
2013-03-22T00:44:06 < sterna1> it has worked for about half a year or os
2013-03-22T00:44:08 < sterna1> *so
2013-03-22T00:47:01 < Laurenceb_> lol
2013-03-22T00:47:10  * Laurenceb_ is watching bbc parliament
2013-03-22T00:47:17 < sterna1> i hate my life right now
2013-03-22T00:47:25 < Laurenceb_> they swap between parliament and house of lords
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2013-03-22T00:47:30 < sterna1> I think I broke a trace on my pcb
2013-03-22T00:47:41 < Laurenceb_> its like 4chan versus serious chan
2013-03-22T00:47:54 < sterna1> and I'm going to vienna in about 16 hours for a big competition
2013-03-22T00:48:04 < sterna1> including sleep
2013-03-22T00:48:16 < emeb> Laurenceb_: which is is the 4chan version? parliament or lords?
2013-03-22T00:48:38 < Laurenceb_> parliament
2013-03-22T00:48:49 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-22T00:48:51 < Laurenceb_> lord is all serious and acronym hell
2013-03-22T00:48:55 < Laurenceb_> *lords
2013-03-22T00:49:09 < emeb> heh - all the noises those parliament dudes make.
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2013-03-22T00:50:41 < Laurenceb_> the UK is the only country with a trolling based parliament
2013-03-22T00:51:42 < Laurenceb_> anyways.. any idea how to import color vector graphics from dia into latex documents?
2013-03-22T00:51:53 < Laurenceb_> dont i need epsc ?
2013-03-22T00:51:59 < BrainDamage> save them as eps
2013-03-22T00:52:16 < Laurenceb_> does that allow color/colour?
2013-03-22T00:52:50 < Laurenceb_> ill shut up and try iut
2013-03-22T00:52:55 <+Steffanx> goood boy
2013-03-22T00:53:37 < BrainDamage> afaik it handle color
2013-03-22T00:54:04 < Laurenceb_> yes, seems to work.. but why does gnuplot eps export go to black and white?
2013-03-22T00:54:28 < qyx_> i assume it is caused by default terminal settings
2013-03-22T00:54:31 <+Steffanx> open sores i would say
2013-03-22T00:54:33 < qyx_> last time i had the same problem
2013-03-22T00:54:34 < Laurenceb_> presumably
2013-03-22T00:54:39 < Laurenceb_> lol Steffanx
2013-03-22T00:54:55 < qyx_> there were some things i had to modify to make eps colorful
2013-03-22T00:55:15 < Laurenceb_> its working for my from latest Dia
2013-03-22T00:55:45 < qyx_> maybe
2013-03-22T00:55:46 < qyx_> set terminal postscript eps color
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2013-03-22T00:56:39 < Laurenceb_> im too lazy to try now
2013-03-22T00:56:54 < Laurenceb_> just "print foo.epsc" from octave works
2013-03-22T00:57:11 < Laurenceb_> but then i get foo.epsc, which is what was confusing me
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2013-03-22T00:58:10  * Laurenceb_ is writing his thesis...
2013-03-22T00:58:20 < Laurenceb_> aiming to finish by November
2013-03-22T00:58:27 < Laurenceb_> so nothing ambitious there :P
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2013-03-22T00:59:12 <+Steffanx> yay
2013-03-22T00:59:30 <+Steffanx> For how long you've been working on your phd Laurenceb_ ?
2013-03-22T00:59:37 <+Steffanx> 4 years?
2013-03-22T00:59:51 < Laurenceb_> 2.5
2013-03-22T00:59:58 <+Steffanx> oh, not even 4
2013-03-22T01:00:32 <+Steffanx> I'm not sure if i could do that.. work on the same project THAT long
2013-03-22T01:00:35 <+Steffanx> EVERY day
2013-03-22T01:00:56 < Laurenceb_> but i dont
2013-03-22T01:01:01 < Laurenceb_> sometimes i TROLL
2013-03-22T01:01:16 <+Steffanx>  /sometimes/whenever i can
2013-03-22T01:01:42 < zyp> when he's not busy masturbating
2013-03-22T01:01:48 < Laurenceb_> O_O
2013-03-22T01:01:55 <+Steffanx> Hah, zyp
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2013-03-22T01:04:30 <+Steffanx> zyp knows how it works
2013-03-22T01:04:55 < Laurenceb_> hehe
2013-03-22T01:05:12 < Laurenceb_> choosing correct fonts....
2013-03-22T01:05:15 < Laurenceb_> funtimes
2013-03-22T01:05:29 <+Steffanx> default latex font
2013-03-22T01:05:35 < zyp> I've heard good things about comic sans
2013-03-22T01:05:56 <+Steffanx> Was that here.. that post from the one who invented comic sans?
2013-03-22T01:06:03 < Laurenceb_> i need fonts for diagrams and graphs
2013-03-22T01:06:24 < Laurenceb_> and it needs to be consistent... and everything needs to be vector graphics...
2013-03-22T01:06:27 < Laurenceb_> funtimes
2013-03-22T01:06:53 < Laurenceb_> currently looking like it will stretch to 600 pages total :-S
2013-03-22T01:07:32 < BrainDamage> choosing correct fonts?
2013-03-22T01:07:40 < BrainDamage> your univ has no thesis templates?
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2013-03-22T01:10:46 < Laurenceb_> maybe.. i couldnt care less
2013-03-22T01:11:28 <+Steffanx> Yes you camp
2013-03-22T01:11:30 <+Steffanx> *can
2013-03-22T01:12:54 < zyp> Laurenceb_, I found something you could do when you are bored: http://garyc.me/bring/
2013-03-22T01:14:17 <+Steffanx> zyp is having fun on http://www.theuselessweb.com/ ?
2013-03-22T01:14:33 < zyp> no, it was linked on another channel
2013-03-22T01:14:57 < zyp> I don't need a site to find ueless stuff, enough of that is posted on irc :p
2013-03-22T01:14:58 < BrainDamage> that makes no sense to me, you complain you have to tweak the font etc, and you don't care if there's a readily made template that you can alter with good pre-entries?
2013-03-22T01:15:41 < BrainDamage> we should have an hashtag for Laurenceb's typical stuff
2013-03-22T01:16:04 < BrainDamage> like "bored, wasting time clicking on retarded html games" #laurenceb
2013-03-22T01:16:04 < Laurenceb_> lol
2013-03-22T01:16:30 < Laurenceb_> i want to tweak the font so its consistent and looks good, not to fit some stupid template
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2013-03-22T01:17:07 < Laurenceb_> uni already hate my thesis
2013-03-22T01:17:25 < Laurenceb_> too multidisciplinary
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2013-03-22T01:54:20 < sterna1> anyone else had a trouble with a too long cable to SWD?
2013-03-22T01:54:40 < sterna1> because I think it's been one of the causes of all my troubles today
2013-03-22T01:54:54 < sterna1> and it was like 30cm cable or so
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2013-03-22T02:25:36 < gxti> minor reliability issues yes, but it wasn't a cable so much as jumper wires strung together
2013-03-22T02:25:54 < gxti> and in fact i think that was a pickit3, not swd :p
2013-03-22T02:30:15 < dongs> sup dongs
2013-03-22T02:30:19 < dongs> Tectu: nope, works fine
2013-03-22T02:37:58 < zyp> dongs, http://bin.jvnv.net/f/jiaeq/blackmagic_dfu.bin <- try this
2013-03-22T02:38:16 < zyp> the one I gave you earlier weren't the latest
2013-03-22T02:40:31 < dongs> is bin all you have?
2013-03-22T02:40:35 < dongs> i'd rather have something less aids
2013-03-22T02:40:38 < dongs> elf or hex is ok
2013-03-22T02:41:29 < dongs> where do i load the bin?
2013-03-22T02:41:30 < dongs> 0x800000?
2013-03-22T02:41:31 < dongs> or whatever
2013-03-22T02:41:35 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/cf77Q/blackmagic_dfu <- elf
2013-03-22T02:41:41 < zyp> and yes, start of flash
2013-03-22T02:41:42 < dongs> ok that works
2013-03-22T02:43:38 < dongs> huh.
2013-03-22T02:44:02 < emeb> dongs: re the BMP2 layout - yeah the 0603 vs 0805 patterns aren't much different, and the huge silk rectangles around them don't help
2013-03-22T02:44:18 < emeb> the Diptrace libs are a lot nicer.
2013-03-22T02:44:40 < dongs> even dicktrace ones were monstrous
2013-03-22T02:44:49 < dongs> i did my own from some old protel libs we used
2013-03-22T02:44:57 < dongs> i mean based on dimensions
2013-03-22T02:45:29 < emeb> right
2013-03-22T02:45:55 < emeb> at least the dt patterns didn't have all the silk so they pack tighter.
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2013-03-22T02:47:27 < dongs> yeah, i didnt like that. because its hard to orient shit wihtout silk on it
2013-03-22T02:47:36 < dongs> also i think dt stuff woulnt allow passing 8mil stuff between pads
2013-03-22T02:49:28 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/KRAx29w.png ????
2013-03-22T02:49:30 < dongs> wtffffffffffff
2013-03-22T02:49:52 < zyp> hmm?
2013-03-22T02:50:37 < dongs> both your elf and bin do this
2013-03-22T02:50:40 < dongs> hex dosnt
2013-03-22T02:50:42 < dongs> old bin/elf didnt
2013-03-22T02:51:04 < zyp> hex what? I haven't given you a new hex
2013-03-22T02:51:12 < dongs> you hgave old
2013-03-22T02:51:30 < zyp> and doing what? flashing wrong shit?
2013-03-22T02:51:37 < dongs> no idea
2013-03-22T02:51:47 < dongs> it blinks after flash
2013-03-22T02:51:54 < dongs> and no dfu with button
2013-03-22T02:52:26 < zyp> I mean, the right pane seems to show the old version I gave you earlier today
2013-03-22T02:52:38 < dongs> i did full erase etc more thqn once
2013-03-22T02:52:59 < zyp> are you sure the pages aren't protected? I think bootloader protects itself
2013-03-22T02:53:32 < zyp> right pane matches the old file
2013-03-22T02:53:52 < zyp> so I put my money on protected pages not being erased/rewritten
2013-03-22T02:54:47 < dongs> yep.
2013-03-22T02:54:52 < dongs> fucking useless trash
2013-03-22T02:54:55 < dongs> so how do i fix it?
2013-03-22T02:54:57 < dongs> erase al ldoesnt erase it
2013-03-22T02:55:24 < zyp> uh, blame your current debugger interface
2013-03-22T02:55:33 < dongs> ??????????? stdink
2013-03-22T02:55:38 < zyp> it should have some flash protection setting
2013-03-22T02:55:50 < zyp> I remember the standalone windows gui has, at least
2013-03-22T02:55:52 < zyp> I used it once
2013-03-22T02:56:16 < dongs> oh ya lemme try that one
2013-03-22T02:57:49 < dongs> fcucvgbkjhjkl;lhjklkhj;lhjk;;lhjk;
2013-03-22T02:59:27 < dongs> ok its fucking cleared
2013-03-22T02:59:31 < dongs> had to turn on ROP on/off
2013-03-22T02:59:42 < dongs> fucking opensores
2013-03-22T03:00:18 < dongs> .....
2013-03-22T03:00:22 < zyp> hey, blame your closed sores tools that can't deal properly with protected pages
2013-03-22T03:00:25 < dongs> now its all FFs
2013-03-22T03:00:32 < dongs> what the FUCK NIGGER
2013-03-22T03:00:38 < dongs> i already set all option byte shits to zero
2013-03-22T03:00:47 < zyp> of course it is, that's how erased flash looks before you write it
2013-03-22T03:00:59 < dongs> ITS STILL FUCKING PROTECTED EVEN THOUGH OPTION BYTES ARE CLEARED
2013-03-22T03:01:33 < zyp> are you sure option bytes shouldn't remain set?
2013-03-22T03:01:57 < dongs> ?>
2013-03-22T03:02:27 < dongs> i have no idea what defaults are
2013-03-22T03:02:46 < dongs> before thisa opensores fuilkth fucked with them
2013-03-22T03:03:27 < zyp> http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/en/resource/technical/document/user_manual/CD00262073.pdf <- did you use the stuff on page 20?
2013-03-22T03:03:43 < dongs> huh i use stvp
2013-03-22T03:04:50 < zyp> oh, I used st-link utility
2013-03-22T03:04:59 < dongs> i dont even have that shti
2013-03-22T03:05:09 < emeb> get it - on the ST site
2013-03-22T03:05:47 < zyp> it's not my fault you are using shitty closed sores tools :p
2013-03-22T03:07:07 < dongs> man this trash is like fucking crossplatform apps thinking they're awesome and "inventing" a bunch of nonstandard UI trash on windows
2013-03-22T03:07:13 < dongs> without asking permission
2013-03-22T03:07:29 < dongs> what the FUCK does this fucking boolotader have to do with write protecting pages WITHOUT FUCKING ASKING
2013-03-22T03:07:33 < dongs> bullshit
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2013-03-22T03:08:16 < zyp> it's pretty reasonable, to keep the device from being bricked by killing the bootloader
2013-03-22T03:08:25 < dongs> any fucking idea what default fucking option byte setetings are??
2013-03-22T03:08:47 < zyp> I think they are flash, and therefore also defaults to all ones
2013-03-22T03:10:11 < zyp> umm, but just don't write them to random shit, doesn't some of them turn off debugging and everything?
2013-03-22T03:10:54 < dongs> finally
2013-03-22T03:11:17 < dongs> well, no drivers of course
2013-03-22T03:11:20 < Erlkoenig> http://games.2g2s.de/elektronik/CAN-diff.png <- the use of differential transmission
2013-03-22T03:11:20 < dongs> where's bmp windows tools?
2013-03-22T03:11:22 < dongs> or those dont exist?
2013-03-22T03:12:04 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/hA6NC/blackmagic
2013-03-22T03:12:17 < zyp> you could just flash that elf without erasing the bootloader
2013-03-22T03:12:32 < zyp> and then it should start in normal mode
2013-03-22T03:12:32 < dongs> ok
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2013-03-22T03:13:30 < dongs> works now
2013-03-22T03:13:36 < dongs> yep
2013-03-22T03:13:37 < dongs> like 4 devices upo
2013-03-22T03:13:41 < dongs> all without drivers on a real OS
2013-03-22T03:13:45 < dongs> idle led is on
2013-03-22T03:13:46 < dongs> seems ok.
2013-03-22T03:13:48 < zyp> https://github.com/gsmcmullin/blackmagic/tree/master/driver <- inf files here
2013-03-22T03:14:04 < dongs> doesnt look signed ;)
2013-03-22T03:14:22 < emeb> don't touch it - it's unclean!
2013-03-22T03:14:24 < zyp> well, you're so proud you can sign them yourself, so whatever
2013-03-22T03:14:47 < dongs> ok time to unfuck the other one
2013-03-22T03:15:08 < Erlkoenig> if that only were possible in RL
2013-03-22T03:22:28 < dongs> fucked up
2013-03-22T03:25:04 < dongs> this is so fucking gay
2013-03-22T03:25:11 < dongs> shit keeps re-applying protection on power up
2013-03-22T03:25:23 < dongs> no idea what sequewnce of shit i did to make it erase first time
2013-03-22T03:25:31 < dongs> and hten it kills entire stlink interface
2013-03-22T03:25:39 < Bird|lappy> seems like it's in anti-dongs mode
2013-03-22T03:25:40 < Bird|lappy> :o
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2013-03-22T03:26:05 < zyp> why are you letting it power up?
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2013-03-22T03:26:15 < zyp> just unprotect and mass erase
2013-03-22T03:27:38 < dongs> > Reading  OPTION BYTE area...
2013-03-22T03:27:38 < dongs> Error : ST-Link error (USB communication error).
2013-03-22T03:27:38 < dongs> Error : < OPTION BYTE reading failed.
2013-03-22T03:27:40 < dongs> ....
2013-03-22T03:28:15 < dongs> im charging tectu double for wasting my fucking time
2013-03-22T03:28:21 < dongs> i spent like a whole fucking hour niggering with this shit
2013-03-22T03:28:38 < dongs> it wasn't worth my time 5 minutes into it already
2013-03-22T03:30:51 < zyp> oh well
2013-03-22T03:32:11 < zyp> it's getting way too late here now, have a good night
2013-03-22T03:32:43 < dongs> yep.
2013-03-22T03:32:50 < dongs> tossing it in the trahs can, not worth my time
2013-03-22T03:34:18 < dongs> and i dont feel like dicking with making an adapter for yet another uncommon pinout from my jlink
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2013-03-22T03:53:25 < gxti> you mean jumper wires? olol
2013-03-22T04:06:46 < dongs> yep
2013-03-22T04:06:56 < dongs> sorry, im too used to commercial closed sores hardware/software that just works
2013-03-22T04:07:13 < dongs> if I wanted to waste time I'd be running lunix
2013-03-22T04:11:26 < Bird|lappy> dongs, don't forget that the shoe sometimes does wind up on the other foot
2013-03-22T04:11:46 < emeb_mac> that only happens if I try to get dressed in the dark
2013-03-22T04:12:24 < baird> Tended to end up wearing the girlfriend's underwear too.
2013-03-22T04:12:40 < emeb_mac> does it make you feel... pretty?
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2013-03-22T04:13:54 < baird> Thea was always wearing my ex-West.German Army moleskirt shirt. :P
2013-03-22T04:14:05 < dongs> well since that was a guy, i guess thats probly why you couldnt tell the diff
2013-03-22T04:14:35 < dongs> amirite
2013-03-22T04:23:19 -!- gsmcmullin [~gareth@122-62-149-197.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2013-03-22T04:23:26 < baird> I got an email from her about 6 weeks ago asking if the place where we bought the shirts was still in business. (No; It got flooded out in 2007..)
2013-03-22T04:24:28 < baird> Seems the supplies of those german army shirts dried up completely around 2003. Fuck the German Reunification.
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2013-03-22T04:29:41 < fxd0h> hey dongs you there?
2013-03-22T04:31:16 < dongs> eah
2013-03-22T04:31:42 < fxd0h> hey , are you the guy behind AbuseMark thingy?
2013-03-22T04:33:47 < fxd0h> A friend of mine just left a dhi s800 here to be built and tuned , and decided to check the electronics out. Googled a bit and found someone who x-rayed it.
2013-03-22T04:34:27 < fxd0h> wondering if you  and the X-ray guy are the same guy
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2013-03-22T04:43:14 < dongs> http://fpvlab.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23125&d=1363827234
2013-03-22T04:43:23 < dongs> fxd0h: yea it is.
2013-03-22T04:43:57 < fxd0h> haha aight
2013-03-22T04:44:08 < dongs> I can give you a protip on tuning it
2013-03-22T04:44:22 < dongs> https://youtube.com/watch?v=mq90dWrFEiQ
2013-03-22T04:44:34 < fxd0h> it includes a can of gas and matches?
2013-03-22T04:44:38 < dongs> better.
2013-03-22T04:44:53 < fxd0h> good stuff <3
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2013-03-22T04:58:20 < baird> dongs -- is there anything he can't do?
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2013-03-22T06:23:17 < emeb_mac> "I wanna be - Sledgehammer..."
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2013-03-22T09:13:30 < Tectu> dongs, good to hear that it's working fine
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2013-03-22T09:29:08 < Tectu> what happens when one forgets the two 22R resistors on the USB lines?
2013-03-22T09:29:27 < zyp> depends
2013-03-22T09:29:34 < zyp> F3 is said to already have them built in
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2013-03-22T09:30:27 < Tectu> well, I'm on an F4. I have a working USB CDC on my olimex e407 board, and when I run the same program on my custom board, I don't get any USB device
2013-03-22T09:31:18 < zyp> I suspect you fucked up something else
2013-03-22T09:31:41 < zyp> got a schematic?
2013-03-22T09:32:03 < dongs> or pics
2013-03-22T09:32:04 < Tectu> yep
2013-03-22T09:32:15 < dongs> does your board look liek tom66
2013-03-22T09:32:17 < jpa-> F4 has them built-in also IIRC
2013-03-22T09:32:37 < jpa-> atleast.. i don't have any USB resistors with F4 and it works fine
2013-03-22T09:32:40 < Tectu> well, basically I connected the three USB signals (VBUS, + and -) to PA9, 11 and 12. exactly as on the E407 but I forgot the resistors
2013-03-22T09:32:55 < zyp> jpa-, I have them on my board
2013-03-22T09:33:03 < zyp> Tectu, but no ID to PA10?
2013-03-22T09:33:10 < Tectu> zyp, no
2013-03-22T09:33:12 < zyp> does the olimex board have ID?
2013-03-22T09:33:23 < dongs> and what about 1.5k pullup?
2013-03-22T09:33:27 < zyp> dongs, internal
2013-03-22T09:33:37 < dongs> otg crap? k
2013-03-22T09:33:54 < zyp> yes, otg phy needs to have control of it anyway
2013-03-22T09:33:59 < zyp> so it's all fine
2013-03-22T09:34:04 < Tectu> zyp, the olimex board does have the ID on PA10 because it's an OTG board. I've been told here by you or jpa that I don't need it and I'm supposed to leave the pin NC as long as I only need USB CDC (device mode)
2013-03-22T09:34:29 < zyp> good, then that's probably your problem
2013-03-22T09:34:48 < fxd0h> interesting , DJI osd  thingy have a 4gb microsd card inside
2013-03-22T09:34:52 < zyp> as in; the code you are running relies on ID to switch between host and device mode
2013-03-22T09:34:55 < jpa-> stm32f4 discovery has 0 ohm resistors there
2013-03-22T09:35:19 < Tectu> jpa-, thanks
2013-03-22T09:35:21 < Tectu> zyp, meh
2013-03-22T09:35:29 < jpa-> Tectu: yeah, you need to set a bit so that it is "force to device mode"
2013-03-22T09:35:34 < zyp> yes
2013-03-22T09:35:41 < Tectu> which one is that? or RTFM?
2013-03-22T09:35:45 < zyp> FDMOD
2013-03-22T09:35:59 < jpa-> often you can do it through whatever usb driver you are using
2013-03-22T09:36:23 < zyp> my code does that, so if you just want something to test my board you can build and flash my cdc demo
2013-03-22T09:36:33 < zyp> test your board*
2013-03-22T09:36:55 < Tectu> zyp, that would be lovely
2013-03-22T09:37:10 < Tectu> or is it really just that one bit I can change in my code?
2013-03-22T09:37:12 < zyp> are you capable of building it, or do you want a prebuilt elf?
2013-03-22T09:37:15 < jpa-> also the built-in bootloader does that, so if you have boot0, just hook it up and it should enumerate as USB device
2013-03-22T09:37:25 < Tectu> zyp, prebuild, please. I'm not able to build anything currently
2013-03-22T09:37:34 < zyp> ok, give me a few minutes
2013-03-22T09:37:39 < Tectu> zyp, sure. Thank you very much!
2013-03-22T09:37:45 < zyp> Tectu, by the way, what's the frequency of your crystal?
2013-03-22T09:37:51 < Tectu> jpa-, no, I've both boot pins tied to 0
2013-03-22T09:37:55 < Tectu> zyp, 12MHz
2013-03-22T09:37:59 < zyp> ouch
2013-03-22T09:38:04 < Tectu> olimex does the same?
2013-03-22T09:38:08 < zyp> my code is currently hardcoded to 8 :p
2013-03-22T09:38:16 < zyp> but ok, I'll fix that as well
2013-03-22T09:38:24 < Tectu> I thank you very much, zyp :)
2013-03-22T09:41:09 < zyp> got a led on your board? which pin?
2013-03-22T09:41:13 < Tectu> PA10
2013-03-22T09:41:28 < Tectu> where the ID should be ^^
2013-03-22T09:42:12 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/dDAzd/demo.elf
2013-03-22T09:43:26 < jpa-> zyp: could you compile me an elf that does whatever i need my thingy to do? :)
2013-03-22T09:43:57 < zyp> jpa-, yes, provided that I already have code that does whatever you need it to do
2013-03-22T09:45:31 < Tectu> hmm, no new USB device (I got a  /dev/ttyACMx on the olimex)
2013-03-22T09:45:58 < zyp> does dmesg say anything when you plug it in?
2013-03-22T09:45:59 < Tectu> zyp, is the LED supposed to be on or blink?
2013-03-22T09:46:03 < Tectu> zyp, not at all
2013-03-22T09:46:20 < zyp> led toggles when it receives ACM packets
2013-03-22T09:46:34 < zyp> but won't do anything if it doesn't enumerate
2013-03-22T09:46:37 < Tectu> no luck today then
2013-03-22T09:46:46 < zyp> you got a debugger hooked up?
2013-03-22T09:47:12 < zyp> care to grab the usb log from it then?
2013-03-22T09:47:37 < jpa-> zyp: do you have code to fix all my bugs?
2013-03-22T09:48:05 < Tectu> jpa-, dude... He just tried to give me a quick help ;)
2013-03-22T09:48:13 < Tectu> zyp, let me see
2013-03-22T09:48:35 < jpa-> hmph, no quick help for me :(
2013-03-22T09:49:01 < Tectu> zyp, by usb log, you mean from my host, right?
2013-03-22T09:49:03 < zyp> Tectu, if you have gdb with python support you could grab this to pretty-print the log: http://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/gdb_plugins/rblog.py
2013-03-22T09:49:22 < zyp> otherwise just do «p usb_rblog» in gdb
2013-03-22T09:49:59 < zyp> oh, and before you do that, if you don't have this gdb setting already, do «set print pretty on»
2013-03-22T09:50:16 < Tectu> did that one, thanks :)
2013-03-22T09:50:24 < Tectu> http://pastie.org/7063845
2013-03-22T09:51:31 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-22T09:51:43 < zyp> stack initializes properly, but host is never starting enumeration
2013-03-22T09:52:02 < jpa-> maybe usb pull-up not turning on for reason X
2013-03-22T09:52:08 < zyp> yes
2013-03-22T09:52:18 < zyp> that's consistent enough with nothing in dmesg
2013-03-22T09:52:35 < dongs> cool blog
2013-03-22T09:52:41 < zyp> usb pull-up is only turning on once vbus is present
2013-03-22T09:52:57 < Tectu> zyp, I get 3.3V on the VBUS pin
2013-03-22T09:53:06 < zyp> 3.3V?
2013-03-22T09:53:12 < zyp> isn't vbus 5V?
2013-03-22T09:53:30 < Tectu> yeah, I placed a voltage divider there because I've been adviced here to do that because the pins are not 5V tolerate when the device is not powered up
2013-03-22T09:53:41 < zyp> oh, maybe that's the problem
2013-03-22T09:53:42 < Tectu> which can happen here because I have a separate, not over USB PSU
2013-03-22T09:53:47 < Tectu> huh?
2013-03-22T09:53:48 < zyp> try bypassing the voltage divider
2013-03-22T09:53:53 < Tectu> sure, just a sec
2013-03-22T09:54:18 < jpa-> why would that be a problem?
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2013-03-22T09:54:54 < Tectu> no luck there, zyp
2013-03-22T09:54:57 < zyp> jpa-, vbus might be handled by an internal comparator that checks the actual voltage instead of the logical level
2013-03-22T09:55:12 < Tectu> dmesg still doesn't tell anything
2013-03-22T09:55:15 < zyp> Tectu, ok, hang on
2013-03-22T09:56:08 < zyp> I want to know some register values
2013-03-22T09:56:18 < zyp> p/x OTG_FS.reg.GOTGCTL
2013-03-22T09:57:08 < Tectu> 0x10000
2013-03-22T09:58:03 < zyp> ah, right
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2013-03-22T09:58:41 < zyp> p/x OTG_FS.reg.GCCFG
2013-03-22T09:58:56 < Tectu> 0x9ffff
2013-03-22T09:59:55 < zyp> p/x OTG_FS.reg.GCCFG ^= 1 << 21
2013-03-22T10:00:06 < zyp> do you get some activity then?
2013-03-22T10:00:30 < Tectu> yep
2013-03-22T10:00:31 < Tectu> [ 3626.690235] usb 1-1.2: new full-speed USB device number 7 using ehci_hcd
2013-03-22T10:00:31 < Tectu> [ 3627.558988] hub 1-1:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 2
2013-03-22T10:00:39 < Tectu> but no new /dev yet
2013-03-22T10:00:54 < zyp> well, of course not, you have the device halted in the debugger :p
2013-03-22T10:01:03 < zyp> continue and replug
2013-03-22T10:01:10 < Tectu> zyp, new log, if needed:  http://pastie.org/7063881
2013-03-22T10:01:28 < Tectu> oh, okay wait. That was stupid indeed ^^
2013-03-22T10:02:06 < Tectu> i type run instead of continue there ^^
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2013-03-22T10:02:21 < zyp> run wil reset GCCFG
2013-03-22T10:02:27 < Tectu> zyp, almost  http://pastie.org/7063887
2013-03-22T10:02:30 < Tectu> yep, I agree
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2013-03-22T10:03:15 < zyp> anyway, the bit you just set was NOVBUSSENS, that overrides the VBUS sensing
2013-03-22T10:03:37 < zyp> the value of GOTGCTL showed that vbus what not found to be present
2013-03-22T10:03:47 < Tectu> huh
2013-03-22T10:03:49 < zyp> so something is wrong with your vbus
2013-03-22T10:03:57 < Tectu> I'll check the voltage directly on the pin, sec
2013-03-22T10:05:23 < dongs> new dicktrace
2013-03-22T10:05:43 < zyp> with new awesome features?
2013-03-22T10:06:00 < dongs> no sounds like just bugfixed
2013-03-22T10:06:06  * jpa- finally gets fed up with texane bugs, attempting to build openocd..
2013-03-22T10:11:54 < Tectu> zyp, you where right, there was a hardware issue with the VBUS line
2013-03-22T10:12:27 < zyp> great, so it works fine now?
2013-03-22T10:13:01 < Tectu> well, am I suppsed to actually get a new /device?
2013-03-22T10:13:13 < zyp> that's up to your host
2013-03-22T10:13:23 < zyp> looked like enumeration went fine
2013-03-22T10:13:27 < Tectu> because that's still not the case, also not with my code: http://pastie.org/7063937
2013-03-22T10:13:30 < zyp> does it show up in lsusb?
2013-03-22T10:13:54 < Tectu> nope
2013-03-22T10:14:02 < zyp> not even with my code?
2013-03-22T10:14:07 < Tectu> let's try
2013-03-22T10:15:03 < Tectu> with yours not as well
2013-03-22T10:15:16 < zyp> what does dmesg say?
2013-03-22T10:16:18 < Tectu> [ 4499.185710] usb 1-1.2: new full-speed USB device number 25 using ehci_hcd
2013-03-22T10:16:18 < Tectu> [ 4499.271286] input: USB Touchscreen 1234:5678 as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1a.0/usb1/1-1/1-1.2/1-1.2:1.0/input/input29
2013-03-22T10:16:18 < Tectu> [ 4499.271749] input: USB Touchscreen 1234:5678 as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1a.0/usb1/1-1/1-1.2/1-1.2:1.1/input/input30
2013-03-22T10:16:33 < zyp> wtf is up with touchscreen? :p
2013-03-22T10:16:44 < Tectu> I've no idea, I just run your code ^^
2013-03-22T10:17:05 < zyp> your host is weird :p
2013-03-22T10:17:18 < Tectu> it's arch linux, what do you expect? ^^
2013-03-22T10:17:36 < Tectu> well, but with my code I should definitely get a new /dev/ttyACMx
2013-03-22T10:18:02 < zyp> yes, but you got a «USB disconnect» less than a second after enumerating
2013-03-22T10:18:38 < Tectu> because I'm hand bridging the vbus voltage divider
2013-03-22T10:18:55 < zyp> so it doesn't work at 3.3V?
2013-03-22T10:18:57 < Tectu> shouldn't one second be enough?
2013-03-22T10:19:20 < zyp> well, sure
2013-03-22T10:19:26 < zyp> your dmesg says that ttyACM0 was created
2013-03-22T10:19:55 < zyp> but either way, the device node not showing up is a host issue
2013-03-22T10:20:04 < Tectu> sure, I'll check something, sec
2013-03-22T10:20:21 < zyp> as long as device enumerates fine, there is no problem there
2013-03-22T10:24:35 < jpa-> Tectu: how do you flash with openocd? i try to type 'load' from gdb and it just fails
2013-03-22T10:25:18 < Tectu> jpa-, load, exactpy
2013-03-22T10:25:24 < Tectu> jpa-, have you set a file?
2013-03-22T10:25:29 < Tectu> file <path>
2013-03-22T10:25:37 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/oHP/plain
2013-03-22T10:25:37 < Tectu> I always launch gdb with the file as parameter
2013-03-22T10:25:52 < jpa-> yeah, i have typed arm-none-eabi-gdb myfile.elf
2013-03-22T10:25:59 < jpa-> then "target ext :3333"
2013-03-22T10:26:13 < jpa-> newest git master openocd
2013-03-22T10:26:30 < Tectu> yep
2013-03-22T10:26:37 < Tectu> jpa-, you need to   monitor reset halt   first
2013-03-22T10:26:38 < jpa-> also tried "monitor reset halt"
2013-03-22T10:26:42 < Tectu> then no iea
2013-03-22T10:26:46 < Tectu> it worked always
2013-03-22T10:26:57 < Tectu> tar ext :3333     then    mon reset halt     then   load    then run
2013-03-22T10:27:01 < Tectu> afk 20 minutes
2013-03-22T10:27:23 < jpa-> ok, well then i'll try to search further
2013-03-22T10:27:50 < zyp> maybe it doesn't like that the chip is sitting in lockup
2013-03-22T10:27:54 < jpa-> also    openocd -f board/stm32f4discovery.cfg  should be enough, right?
2013-03-22T10:28:18 < jpa-> zyp: hmm.. right
2013-03-22T10:28:25 < zyp> but that sounds weird
2013-03-22T10:28:32 < jpa-> it should connect under reset
2013-03-22T10:31:09 < jpa-> why is it in lockup right after reset :F
2013-03-22T10:31:36 < jpa-> even if i press reset while it is doing "reset halt" it halts at pc: 0xfffffffe
2013-03-22T10:31:53 < zyp> well, what else should it be?
2013-03-22T10:32:22 < zyp> if the flash is erased, the reset vector will be 0xffffffff
2013-03-22T10:32:37 < zyp> and the thumb bit is stripped when putting that into pc
2013-03-22T10:32:58 < jpa-> hmm right
2013-03-22T10:33:08 < jpa-> i guess i'll try fixing it through bootloader once again..
2013-03-22T10:33:12 < zyp> so I wouldn't be too concerned about that
2013-03-22T10:34:32 < jpa-> ok.. it works if i already have a valid program in memory
2013-03-22T10:34:51 < zyp> …
2013-03-22T10:41:22 < Tectu> re
2013-03-22T10:41:28 < jpa-> except it refuses to run anything
2013-03-22T10:41:35 < Tectu> jpa-, the -f board thing is enough indeed
2013-03-22T10:41:52 < jpa-> again Error: jtag status contains invalid mode value - communication failure
2013-03-22T10:42:14 < Tectu> zyp, I got my own code now working properly. It indeed was the VBUS error. I didn't had to do any changes in my code. I thank you VERY much for your help!
2013-03-22T10:42:40 < Tectu> jpa-, with -f board you also set the interface. I never ever had problems with that
2013-03-22T10:42:57 < Tectu> jpa-, just make sure you didn't build with --enable-ftdi, but that won't be the issue here because you coudln't even connect otherwise
2013-03-22T10:43:24 < jpa-> i didn't, just --enable-stlink
2013-03-22T10:44:08 < Tectu> jpa-, I never did that one...
2013-03-22T10:44:19 < Tectu> jpa-, and I can do my f4 discovery stuff without any problems
2013-03-22T10:45:02 < Tectu> jpa-, just   --enable-ftdi
2013-03-22T10:45:17 < jpa-> hmm.. maybe i'll try that
2013-03-22T10:45:18 < Tectu> jpa-, sorry, wrong one... just use     --enable-maintainer-mode   flag, nothing else, when you ./configure
2013-03-22T10:45:33 < Tectu> jpa-, no, it won't work with --enable-ftdi, at least it never did for me
2013-03-22T10:45:33 < jpa-> well that one i did use :)
2013-03-22T10:45:43 < jpa-> ah, ok
2013-03-22T10:45:47 < Tectu> try to build just with that one, without the --enable-stlink
2013-03-22T10:45:48 < jpa-> this suggest might be EMI on my SWD lines?  http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.debugging.openocd.devel/21102
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2013-03-22T10:47:26 < Tectu> jpa-, no idea. I really never had any problems with the f4 disco and openocd
2013-03-22T10:47:30 < Tectu> jpa-, last time I used it was yesterday
2013-03-22T10:47:37 < jpa-> i have 25 cm hookup wires for the SWD.. should be quire a normal length, right?
2013-03-22T10:47:45 < jpa-> *quite
2013-03-22T10:48:05 < Tectu> 25cm? huh? I thought you're having a discovery?
2013-03-22T10:48:13 < Tectu> jpa-, aah, wait... you use your discovery as debugger?
2013-03-22T10:48:20 < Tectu> jpa-, then you cannot use the -f board/
2013-03-22T10:48:26 < Tectu> the -f board also defines your target
2013-03-22T10:48:35 < Tectu> well, unless you have the same chip as on the F4 discovery ;)
2013-03-22T10:48:44 < jpa-> i have F4 chip
2013-03-22T10:49:07 < jpa-> hmm.. if i don't give --enable-stlink, i just get   "The specified debug interface was not found"
2013-03-22T10:49:14 < Tectu> o.O
2013-03-22T10:50:11 < Tectu> no idea, really. this always worked for me. You might want to try #openocd
2013-03-22T10:50:29 < Tectu> not much traffic there, but ntfreak reads back the logs
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2013-03-22T10:52:40 < jpa-> hmm now it seems to work again
2013-03-22T10:52:47 < jpa-> i guess it might indeed be EMI then
2013-03-22T10:53:03 < jpa-> apparently openocd cannot recover from failed transfer
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2013-03-22T11:15:25 < Laurenceb_> http://imanjung.my/v1/images/explore/serimanjung/A5Burger/A5Burger.jpg
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2013-03-22T11:47:49 < Tectu> what's EMI?
2013-03-22T11:48:34 < qyx_> elmag. interference
2013-03-22T11:51:29 -!- trepidaciousMBR [~trepidaci@176.62.208.227] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-22T12:06:57 < Tectu> so I'm working in an office wich does embedded development, especially HF/RF communication... Now a mathematic professor enters... let's start the nerd bitchfight
2013-03-22T12:09:09 < Tectu> qyx_, electro magnetic interface? on an f4 discovery? what am I misunderstanding?
2013-03-22T12:10:33 < qyx_> interference
2013-03-22T12:10:35 < qyx_> 10:48 < qyx_> elmag. interference
2013-03-22T12:10:44 < Tectu> aaah
2013-03-22T12:10:50 < Tectu> sorry ^^
2013-03-22T12:10:53 < karlp> jpa-: the oocd config files for the stlink2 targets don't actually use connect under reset by defualt.
2013-03-22T12:10:59 < karlp> "that might cause problems!"
2013-03-22T12:11:05 < Tectu> karlp, why not?
2013-03-22T12:11:07 < karlp> you can turn it on by...
2013-03-22T12:11:42 < karlp> srst_connect_assert in the "reset_config" line or something
2013-03-22T12:11:51 < Tectu> karlp, why is it disabled by default I mean? All the others do that, no?
2013-03-22T12:11:56 < karlp> no, apparently not.
2013-03-22T12:12:10 < Tectu> hmm, what's the reason for that?
2013-03-22T12:12:16 < karlp> apparently some people think it's a massive failure if it resets rather than quietly attaches without interrupting the processor
2013-03-22T12:12:31 < karlp> I think that sneaking in to the running processor should be the special option, not the default, but whatever
2013-03-22T12:12:54 < karlp> the comment in the file about "use hardware reset, connect under reset" is just lies.
2013-03-22T12:13:02 < Tectu> yes, I think the same
2013-03-22T12:13:42 < karlp> yeah, well openocd is rahter opinionated :)
2013-03-22T12:14:10 < karlp> but current master is less buggy than texane, so it works enough
2013-03-22T12:14:40 < Tectu> indeed
2013-03-22T12:15:11 < zyp> bmp also connects without resetting the processor, and that's quite handy if you need to attach to check a failing state
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2013-03-22T12:17:57 < karlp> zyp: totally, it's a totally valid use case,
2013-03-22T12:18:13 < karlp> I'm just not entirely convinced it is the right default
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2013-03-22T12:18:37 < karlp> I'd like connecting with the tool to enable debugging in sleep mode automatically too,
2013-03-22T12:18:43 < karlp> so I don't have to modify my code to allow it to work
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2013-03-22T12:20:57 < zyp> IMO attaching without reset should be the default
2013-03-22T12:21:10 < Tectu> and here we go :)
2013-03-22T12:22:45 < inca> regarding black magic, is the stm32f103 in the ST-LINK/V2 (st's commercial programmer) equivalent to the stlink v2 on the F4 Discovery?
2013-03-22T12:22:47 < zyp> attaching during deep sleep is a lesser concern than attaching without disturbing the target
2013-03-22T12:22:53 < zyp> inca, almost
2013-03-22T12:23:16 < zyp> inca, the one on the discovery only has half the amount of flash
2013-03-22T12:23:54 < zyp> it's possible to run bmp on the discovery, but it just barely fits in the flash
2013-03-22T12:24:28 < Tectu> zyp, why would you need any space left over?
2013-03-22T12:24:46 < inca> what about bootstrapping over usb to ram?
2013-03-22T12:25:00 < inca> heh, live hosted mode
2013-03-22T12:25:49 < Tectu> dongs, are you there?
2013-03-22T12:26:20 < zyp> Tectu, you don't, but you might have to disable features to make it fit at all
2013-03-22T12:27:05 < inca> anyway, can I bootstrap the commercial st-link/v2 directly over usb via dfu, just as st does with their win app for firmware updates?
2013-03-22T12:27:10 < Tectu> zyp, Isee
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2013-03-22T12:28:29 < zyp> inca, no, their bootloader checks for signed images, I think
2013-03-22T12:29:49 < inca> weren't the AES keys discovered? I just saw them in a russian thread, along with an unencrypted firmware for the st-link/v2 (commercial) variant
2013-03-22T12:30:19 < inca> also apparently by Taylor Killian
2013-03-22T12:30:41 < inca> though I can't seem to find out what happened next
2013-03-22T12:30:47 < inca> http://www.taylorkillian.com/
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2013-03-22T12:31:23 -!- mode/##stm32 [+v Steffanx] by ChanServ
2013-03-22T12:31:39 < dongs> Tectu: what
2013-03-22T12:32:29 < dongs> bbl
2013-03-22T12:33:22 < inca> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&prev=_dd&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.easyelectronics.ru%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D17%26t%3D6620%26sid%3D429578f0de376264062fbae405a424b4%26start%3D25
2013-03-22T12:34:03 < Tectu> dongs, from what I saw in my log, you finished the BMPs an they work?
2013-03-22T12:35:54 < karlp> inca: what areyou actually hoping to achieve?
2013-03-22T12:36:56 < inca> better dev platform for an lwip stm32f104 project
2013-03-22T12:37:01 < inca> semihosting
2013-03-22T12:37:25 < inca> sane, simplified build system
2013-03-22T12:38:48 < karlp> I mean, what exactly is a reverse engineered stlinkv2 firmware going to do to help wit hthat?
2013-03-22T12:39:14 < karlp> don't the protools already do semihosting with stlinkv2 as is?
2013-03-22T12:42:33 < jpa-> karlp: have you ever seen openocd say "Error: jtag status contains invalid mode value - communication failure"?
2013-03-22T12:42:56 < jpa-> for me it does it always after few minutes, and ruins any debugging because i need to restart openocd after that
2013-03-22T12:44:10 < karlp> I've seen it, but I can't remember of the top of my head now what it was from
2013-03-22T12:44:13 < karlp> I haven't seen it for a while.
2013-03-22T12:44:23 < karlp> what version are you running? 0.6.1 or recent master?
2013-03-22T12:44:47 < jpa-> newest master
2013-03-22T12:45:16  * karlp shrugs
2013-03-22T12:45:22 < inca> bbl
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2013-03-22T12:45:29 < karlp> I leave openocd running and suspend/resume even and it works fine
2013-03-22T12:45:33 < karlp> I just have to reconnect from gdb
2013-03-22T12:45:47 < jpa-> karlp: some googling suggests that it could be an EMI issue
2013-03-22T12:45:51 < karlp> sometimes it takes a few "mon reset halt" command to grab the target's attention.
2013-03-22T12:45:56 < jpa-> how long wires do you have between board and stlink?
2013-03-22T12:46:14 < karlp> hrmm, I'm just using a ~25cm length of bog standard cheap ribbon
2013-03-22T12:46:23 < karlp> maybe only 20cm?
2013-03-22T12:46:34 < jpa-> same length as mine
2013-03-22T12:46:48 < jpa-> i'll try 15cm wire now
2013-03-22T12:46:57 < jpa-> nope, same
2013-03-22T12:47:38 < karlp> did you add the srst_connect_assert whatzit?
2013-03-22T12:48:50 < jpa-> nope
2013-03-22T12:49:04 < jpa-> but doesn't matter, it connects fine now that i have valid program in it
2013-03-22T12:49:23 < jpa-> just that when i run, after 20 seconds - 5 minutes i'll receive that error and it stops working
2013-03-22T12:49:30 < karlp> hrmm, there was a bugfix in the comit log at least about problems connecting to a factory blank chip
2013-03-22T12:49:35 < karlp> but I thought it had been fixed
2013-03-22T12:49:49 < jpa-> yeah, my earlier problem was probably that
2013-03-22T12:49:56 < jpa-> but it wasn't such a big trouble anyway
2013-03-22T12:50:07 < karlp> hrmm, not sure.
2013-03-22T12:50:19 < karlp> it's been working fine for me otherwise.
2013-03-22T12:50:35 < karlp> except for shit like breaking with the debugger causing adc noise
2013-03-22T12:51:51 < jpa-> hmm, doesn't seem to happen when debugging the processor on the discovery itself
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2013-03-22T13:09:57 < jpa-> bah, happens also on other board
2013-03-22T13:10:12 < jpa-> looks like openocd fails to recover from any transfer errors
2013-03-22T13:10:46 < karlp> quite likely, but why does it get a transfer error at all?
2013-03-22T13:11:19 < jpa-> wait.. hmm.. does openocd fail on WFI like this page claims? http://nuttx.org/doku.php?id=wiki:howtos:jtag-debugging
2013-03-22T13:13:26 < karlp> hrm, not sure, that might have been what I was doing when I did see that message.
2013-03-22T13:15:47 < jpa-> except i don't have wfi
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2013-03-22T14:02:37 < donigs> sup blogs
2013-03-22T14:02:56 < zyp> cleaning up desk and shit at work
2013-03-22T14:09:30 < Laurenceb> cuz you lost your job?
2013-03-22T14:10:07 < zyp> «cuz» norwegian STE site is shutting down
2013-03-22T14:10:27 < zyp> and therefore my position here as a contractor ends
2013-03-22T14:10:58 < donigs> oh i was gonna ask
2013-03-22T14:11:05 < donigs> i saw somethin about ST+E dissolving
2013-03-22T14:11:09 < donigs> after not making any money
2013-03-22T14:11:22 < donigs> zyp was spending too much time trolling on irc
2013-03-22T14:11:45 < donigs> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/20/st_ericsson/
2013-03-22T14:11:45 < donigs> this
2013-03-22T14:11:51 < zyp> yes
2013-03-22T14:12:02 < zyp> not really relevant
2013-03-22T14:12:12 < zyp> closure of the norwegian site was announced last year
2013-03-22T14:12:22 < donigs> oh
2013-03-22T14:12:35 < donigs> well now you can troll fulltime
2013-03-22T14:12:38 < Laurenceb> so no job for zyp?
2013-03-22T14:12:41 < donigs> like Laurenceb
2013-03-22T14:12:44 < Laurenceb> lol
2013-03-22T14:13:20 < zyp> I just worked here as a contractor, so I still have my job, it's just my position at STE that ends
2013-03-22T14:14:06 < zyp> not yet sure exactly what I'll be working on after easter, but it'll still be embedded stuff
2013-03-22T14:16:16 <+Steffanx> Sure even when your boss has no work in that?
2013-03-22T14:18:03 < zyp> hmm?
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2013-03-22T14:22:19 < jpa-> bah, may i declare that openocd simply doesn't work for me and go back to texane?
2013-03-22T14:32:40 < Laurenceb> gdb is being weird
2013-03-22T14:32:51 < Laurenceb> what is the "auto-load safe-path" stuff about?
2013-03-22T14:32:55 < Laurenceb> i need to disable it
2013-03-22T14:32:58 < zyp> because it works properly for you today?
2013-03-22T14:33:07 < Laurenceb> at the moment gdbinit is failing to execute
2013-03-22T14:33:21 < Laurenceb> it doesnt have a safe path or something...
2013-03-22T14:33:50 < Laurenceb> http://sourceware.org/gdb/onlinedocs/gdb/Auto_002dloading-safe-path.html
2013-03-22T14:33:54 < Laurenceb> ^this error
2013-03-22T14:34:42 < Laurenceb> how can i make those changes permanent?
2013-03-22T14:35:29 < zyp> set it in ~/.gdbinit?
2013-03-22T14:37:37 < Laurenceb> tried that
2013-03-22T14:37:39 < Laurenceb> same error
2013-03-22T14:37:49 < Laurenceb> also if i export debugdir
2013-03-22T14:38:14 < Laurenceb> its erroring as it doesnt have permission to load .gdbinit
2013-03-22T14:38:22 < Laurenceb> so something in gdbinit wont help
2013-03-22T14:38:36 < karlp> hey jpa, am I reading the L1 clock diagram right? if I want usb, I need pll to be at 48Mhz after the MUL step, but then I only have /2, /3 and /4 for dividers to get to sysclk, which can't be over 32.
2013-03-22T14:38:45 < karlp> so from the pll the best I can get is 24
2013-03-22T14:38:52 < karlp> which is the ssame as the max HSE speed
2013-03-22T14:39:05 < karlp> so if I want to use USB, the max speed for the sysclk is only 24, not 32?
2013-03-22T14:39:25 < zyp> can't you runn PLL at 96 with /2 for usb and /3 for sysclk?
2013-03-22T14:40:20 < karlp> not as far as I can read from the clock tree diagram,
2013-03-22T14:40:31 < karlp> it pulls off the usb clokc after the multiplier and before the dividers
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2013-03-22T14:40:46 < zyp> I remember looking at that once, but I don't remember the conclusion
2013-03-22T14:41:14 < karlp> 24mhz is probably fine anyway
2013-03-22T14:41:36 < zyp> gonna check RM
2013-03-22T14:41:54 < Laurenceb> ".gdbinit autoloading has been declined by your "auto-load safe-path""
2013-03-22T14:42:04 < Laurenceb> is the error
2013-03-22T14:42:11 < zyp> Laurenceb, even the global .gdbinit in your homedir?
2013-03-22T14:42:22 < Laurenceb> hmm
2013-03-22T14:42:30 < zyp> because that's what I meant
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2013-03-22T14:42:56 < Laurenceb> ill try creating one
2013-03-22T14:43:32  * Tectu pokes Laurenceb 
2013-03-22T14:43:38 < zyp> karlp, I'm correct
2013-03-22T14:43:45 < Laurenceb> that works, thanks
2013-03-22T14:43:59 < zyp> If the USB or SDIO interface is used in the application, the PLL VCO clock (defined by
2013-03-22T14:44:02 < zyp> the PLL multiplication factor) must be programmed to output a 96 MHz frequency. This
2013-03-22T14:44:05 < zyp> is required to provide a 48 MHz clock to the USB or SDIO (SDIOCLK or USBCLK =
2013-03-22T14:44:08 < zyp> PLLVCO/2).
2013-03-22T14:44:25 < zyp> so usb is fixed /2 and then you set sysclk to /3
2013-03-22T14:45:41 < Bird|lappy> when does one generally do their global interrupt unmask in their init code? right after the interrupt controller is configured, or not until all interrupt-using peripherals have been configured as well?
2013-03-22T14:46:19 < zyp> Bird|lappy, never, it's unmasked by default
2013-03-22T14:46:32 < zyp> unless your code masks it
2013-03-22T14:47:16 < zyp> on the other hand, each single interrupt is masked, except the faults
2013-03-22T14:47:33 < zyp> so you don't have to think about it
2013-03-22T14:47:56 < zyp> as soon as you enable an interrupt, that interrupt can fire
2013-03-22T14:48:07 < Bird|lappy> zyp, oh, shows what I know (x86s boot up with their interrupt flag cleared, for one)
2013-03-22T14:48:10 < zyp> but until you enable any, there is no need to worry
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2013-03-22T14:58:03 < jpa-> karlp: i think that is correct, atleast that is what i ended up using
2013-03-22T14:58:52 < zyp> since the usb is fixed /2 in either case, pll output has to be 96 MHz
2013-03-22T14:59:06 < karlp> zyp: ahh, thanks, yeah, I see that in the notes now.
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2013-03-22T14:59:46 < karlp> I'd sort of read the tree as being /2 for sdio, but not for usb
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2013-03-22T15:29:05 < trepidaciousMBR> Is it possible to stop a Chibi GPT early, when it is doing a one-shot?
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2013-03-22T15:45:04 < donigs> pro/ee question, r+c in series does it matter the order r+c or c+r?
2013-03-22T15:45:06 < Tectu> trepidaciousMBR, I guess you can disable it?
2013-03-22T15:45:20 < Tectu> donigs, no, it dosen't matter.
2013-03-22T15:45:40 < jpa-> donigs: why would you have r+c in series without connecting something to the wire in between them?
2013-03-22T15:45:54 < donigs> jpa-: chargepump or someshit
2013-03-22T15:46:13 < jpa-> uh.. to waste some power there? :)
2013-03-22T15:46:14 < donigs> square wave -> R+R -> diode + vcc
2013-03-22T15:46:18 < donigs> dunno
2013-03-22T15:46:22 < donigs> datasheet says so
2013-03-22T15:46:36 < jpa-> oh well, probably to avoid overloading the pin
2013-03-22T15:46:36 < gxti> donigs: no it does not matter
2013-03-22T15:46:41 < jpa-> i guess the R would be pretty small
2013-03-22T15:46:46 < jpa-> but yeah, doesn't matter in that case
2013-03-22T15:46:47 < gxti> usually it's a snubber to reduce EMI or shape the waveform or whatever.
2013-03-22T15:47:09 < trepidaciousMBR> Tectu: I think I can call gptStopTimer, and the asserts in the source imply this is fine, but its not shown on the state diagram in the documentation. Seems to work fine though ;)
2013-03-22T15:48:27 < Tectu> trepidaciousMBR, good :)
2013-03-22T15:48:31 -!- Robint91 [~Robin@dD5776E9E.access.telenet.be] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-22T15:48:52 < Robint91> Hi all
2013-03-22T15:48:52 < jpa-> yay weekend
2013-03-22T15:49:03 < Robint91> Steffanx, tomorrow? Rosmalen?
2013-03-22T15:49:10 <+Steffanx> nope
2013-03-22T15:49:17 < Robint91> meh
2013-03-22T15:50:06  * jpa- desolders programmer wires.. lets hope that there is no need for further changes :)
2013-03-22T15:50:49 <+Steffanx> i guess you are going to rosmalen Robint91 ?
2013-03-22T15:51:27 <+Steffanx> I bet Rosmalen is closer for you :)
2013-03-22T15:52:19 <+Steffanx> Fuck.. i just formatted the wrong disk. I tried to format a sd card but formatted a USB stick instead
2013-03-22T15:54:56 -!- alexn [~alexn@93.104.205.194] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe]
2013-03-22T15:55:04 < Robint91> Steffanx, 100km
2013-03-22T15:55:07 < Robint91> Steffanx, yes
2013-03-22T15:57:25 < Tectu> there's notthing comming out of my SPI MOSI or SCK line -.-'
2013-03-22T15:57:27 < Tectu> but CS works
2013-03-22T15:57:41 <+Steffanx> 230km here Robint91 :)
2013-03-22T16:01:16 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-22T16:02:58 < trepidaciousMBR> Tectu: Have you got the pins as peripherals? I spent 10 minutes the other day working that out ;)
2013-03-22T16:03:32 < Tectu> trepidaciousMBR, I just figured out that I need to put them into Alternate mode twice o.O
2013-03-22T16:03:40 < Tectu> maybe I have a typo in my board file, when I do it explicit, I get some output
2013-03-22T16:04:35 -!- rlc [~ubuntu@CPE002191edd529-CM001bd7aa324e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-22T16:04:52 < Tectu> trepidaciousMBR, thanks for the help ;-)
2013-03-22T16:04:59 < Tectu> it's always the same crap...
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2013-03-22T16:05:37 < trepidaciousMBR> Whenever you need 8 different things all right to see anytthing useful, it's hard to debug ;)
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2013-03-22T16:08:55 < Tectu> jep
2013-03-22T16:08:56 < Tectu> indeed
2013-03-22T16:14:01 <+Steffanx> the worst part of the disk format .. it isnt MY usb stick ( and not my data ) oops
2013-03-22T16:20:08 -!- rob_w [~bob@unaffiliated/rob-w/x-1112029] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
2013-03-22T16:20:11 < Tectu> Steffanx, formantted someone else's stick?
2013-03-22T16:23:04 <+Steffanx> Yeah
2013-03-22T16:23:06 <+Steffanx> oops
2013-03-22T16:24:34 < Tectu> how are you going to explain it?
2013-03-22T16:28:58 <+Steffanx> Not sure if i'm oging to explain :P
2013-03-22T16:29:18 <+Steffanx> A (fast) format of fat32 should be pretty easy to recover
2013-03-22T16:29:40 < zyp> heh
2013-03-22T16:29:41 < zyp> :p
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2013-03-22T16:31:26 <+Steffanx> micro sd is a wonderful format, but .. i always loose the adapters
2013-03-22T16:33:54 < rlc> when will there be nano sd?
2013-03-22T16:35:50 <+Steffanx> You dont want that, lol
2013-03-22T16:36:34 < Tectu> Steffanx, I have 10 of them at any place I am
2013-03-22T16:36:44 < Tectu> incluing three in my backpack
2013-03-22T16:36:45 <+Steffanx> I have one, that is broken
2013-03-22T16:36:57 < Tectu> that's pretty bad
2013-03-22T16:38:37 < Laurenceb> ive got an issue with I2C on F103
2013-03-22T16:38:53 < Tectu> Laurenceb, F1 always have i2c issues, no
2013-03-22T16:39:12 < Laurenceb> when it boots I2C1->CR1 is 0x504
2013-03-22T16:39:14 < zyp> nah, I2C is fine
2013-03-22T16:39:15 < Laurenceb> at boot
2013-03-22T16:39:17 < Laurenceb> like wtf
2013-03-22T16:40:20 < Laurenceb> some sort of hardware issue?
2013-03-22T16:40:36 < Laurenceb> this is on one of my bords
2013-03-22T16:42:51 < Laurenceb> raging
2013-03-22T16:43:17 < Laurenceb> maybe ESD :-/
2013-03-22T16:43:26 < Laurenceb> as same firmware runs on other boards
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2013-03-22T16:46:20 < Laurenceb> i never get any i2c interrupts
2013-03-22T16:46:29 < Laurenceb> it seems to be locked up at boot
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2013-03-22T16:53:08 < dongs> ur locked up
2013-03-22T16:55:56 < dongs> eagle is totally fucked
2013-03-22T16:56:11 < dongs> who the fuck thought bright green is a good highghlit color for something thats DARK GREEN by default?$#?@$#@?$
2013-03-22T16:56:18 < dongs> is there any way to change these fucking colors
2013-03-22T16:56:19 < dongs> damn
2013-03-22T16:57:45 < rlc> it's just that your eyes cannot distinguish dark from bright properly :P
2013-03-22T16:58:22 < trepidaciousMBR> I;m pretty sure you can adjust eagle colours
2013-03-22T16:59:59 < cjbaird> Monitor gamma..?
2013-03-22T17:00:54 < dongs> ??
2013-03-22T17:01:02 < dongs> is tehre no fucking wayt to make highlight like some other color?
2013-03-22T17:01:06 < Laurenceb> lulwut
2013-03-22T17:01:11 < Laurenceb> found where i2c fails
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2013-03-22T17:01:18 < Laurenceb> in st periph lib I2C_init
2013-03-22T17:01:38 < Laurenceb> start and stop jam on
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2013-03-22T17:02:11 < Laurenceb> http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/mmc/FM141/SC1169/SS1582
2013-03-22T17:02:14 < Laurenceb> interesting
2013-03-22T17:02:27 < Laurenceb> a new series
2013-03-22T17:03:04 -!- trepidaciousMBR [~trepidaci@176.62.208.227] has quit [Client Quit]
2013-03-22T17:03:15 <+Steffanx> That's as old as the new webstie Laurenceb ?
2013-03-22T17:03:16 <+Steffanx> -?
2013-03-22T17:04:04 <+Steffanx> heh "The STM32TS60 is no longer an ASIC MCU but a standard STM32 mcu"
2013-03-22T17:04:47 <+Steffanx> but it's pretty old. 2010
2013-03-22T17:05:26 < dongs> wat
2013-03-22T17:05:29 <+Steffanx> dat
2013-03-22T17:05:47 < dongs> dicktouch-sensing
2013-03-22T17:06:23 <+Steffanx> Only when you are excited .. it's resistive
2013-03-22T17:06:37 < dongs> loldongs
2013-03-22T17:06:54 < dongs> PMatrix™ scanning engine (PMSE) and PMatrix™ area detection (PMAD)Up to 81 columns and 64 rows
2013-03-22T17:06:57 < dongs> does that mean
2013-03-22T17:07:03 < dongs> there are 81+64 wires going to that shit
2013-03-22T17:17:44 <+Steffanx> dunno
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2013-03-22T17:35:16 <+Steffanx> dekar wake up
2013-03-22T17:49:23 < dongs> http://www.etsy.com/listing/86292300/pet-dog-cat-collar-accessory-necktie
2013-03-22T17:55:50 < emeb> oh, those kitties are just so cute. we should fill the interwebs up with them.
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2013-03-22T18:22:59 <+Steffanx> Yay, files recovered :D
2013-03-22T18:23:59 < hackkitten> yay :3
2013-03-22T18:32:55 -!- daku is now known as DaKu
2013-03-22T18:34:25 < zyp> hooray
2013-03-22T18:41:43 < emeb> Steffanx: how did you do it?
2013-03-22T18:43:11 < rlc> If I drive the SPI bus in open drain mode, how fast can I get it to work?
2013-03-22T18:43:21 < rlc> (electrically)
2013-03-22T18:43:49 < emeb> depends on what the pullup resistor is and what the cap loading on the line is.
2013-03-22T18:44:47 < rlc> Is there a simple way to calculate it knowing that I tie my resistor to 5V and ignoring the cap loading?
2013-03-22T18:44:53 < emeb> no
2013-03-22T18:45:09 < emeb> w/o the capacitance you have no idea what the risetime is, thus no idea about the time to settle
2013-03-22T18:46:12 < rlc> ok. where does that capacitance come from? trace?
2013-03-22T18:46:24 < emeb> and from whatever device is the receiver
2013-03-22T18:46:34 < emeb> (and the driver pins too for that matter)
2013-03-22T18:47:22 < rlc> so I guess I can only find the speed by experimental measurements?
2013-03-22T18:48:29 < emeb> you can find various online parasitic calculators for pcb traces, and the loading device should have specs on its input capacitance.
2013-03-22T18:48:42 < emeb> but experimental works too.
2013-03-22T18:48:52 < emeb> why do you want open drain SPI?
2013-03-22T18:49:09 < rlc> because I want to drive the device at 5V
2013-03-22T18:49:20 < rlc> but pinout from uc is 3.3v
2013-03-22T18:49:52 < emeb> why not just use a cmos buffer to level shift from 3.3V to 5V?
2013-03-22T18:50:11 < rlc> I want to basically know if I can drive the SPI safely at 5MHz with short traces
2013-03-22T18:50:21 < zyp> *yawn*
2013-03-22T18:50:22 < emeb> Probably
2013-03-22T18:50:28 < zyp> plane delayed
2013-03-22T18:50:43 < zyp> best way to start a vacation :p
2013-03-22T18:50:48 < rlc> emeb: because I want the product as cheap as possible
2013-03-22T18:51:19 < emeb> rlc: does your uC have 5V tolerant I/O pins?
2013-03-22T18:51:20 < rlc> buffer would probably add 1 dollar more?
2013-03-22T18:51:34 < emeb> rlc: what's your quantity?
2013-03-22T18:51:36 < rlc> emeb: I beleive so... stm32f4
2013-03-22T18:51:51 < emeb> rlc: not all pins on the STM32F4 are 5V tolerant
2013-03-22T18:51:57 < emeb> so check in advance.
2013-03-22T18:51:58 < rlc> emeb: 50 units at a time
2013-03-22T18:52:21 < emeb> rlc: at 50qty you can get cmos buffer / level shifters for a few cents ea
2013-03-22T18:52:25 < zyp> emeb, except for analog pins, I think ~all are
2013-03-22T18:52:39 < rlc> emeb: any suggestion on a cheap part then?
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2013-03-22T18:54:25 < GargantuaSauce> i don't think you're going to have trouble at 5mhz on a pcb
2013-03-22T18:54:36 < GargantuaSauce> i am having success at 20mhz with shitty jumpers
2013-03-22T18:54:46 < emeb> GargantuaSauce: open drain?
2013-03-22T18:56:09 < GargantuaSauce> not sure how i missed that but i did
2013-03-22T18:56:24 < rlc> missed what?
2013-03-22T18:56:45 < GargantuaSauce> the open drain part...if the pullup is strong enough it shouldn't make a huge difference i would think
2013-03-22T18:57:18 < emeb> rlc: something like this would probably work - http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CD74HC4050PWR/296-9215-1-ND/376723
2013-03-22T18:57:33 < rlc> yeah I suppose, but I guess I would not want more than 10 ma in the pullup resistor
2013-03-22T18:59:16 < rlc> emeb: thanks. still it's $0.35 though.
2013-03-22T19:00:11 < zyp> make sure the pulldown won't overpower the low side driver :p
2013-03-22T19:00:30 < emeb> but OD + 1k ohm resistor on a 5V tolerant pin would probably work.
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2013-03-22T19:01:35 < emeb> that's only 5ma, and the risetime into a 10pf load is less than 100ns
2013-03-22T19:02:27 < rlc> cool
2013-03-22T19:02:29 < jpa-> rlc: most 5V devices can take 3.3V levels in
2013-03-22T19:02:47 < emeb> jpa-: good point
2013-03-22T19:03:02 < rlc> jpa-: let me chack datasheet
2013-03-22T19:04:27 < jpa-> "chack: To not broadcast a medal-winning or otherwise memorable or crucial figure skating performance."    wtf wiktionary?
2013-03-22T19:04:53 < emeb> now that's a word I don't think I'd ever need to use.
2013-03-22T19:05:08 < jpa-> i didn't know datasheets can skate
2013-03-22T19:06:20 < rlc> I meant it should skate to my eyes :P
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2013-03-22T19:08:18 < rlc> ok, the recommended vih is 0.8*vdd where my vdd is 5V so no 3.3v :(
2013-03-22T19:08:24 < Laurenceb> argggg
2013-03-22T19:08:43 < Laurenceb> hairline crack in a solder joint was causing my i2c issues
2013-03-22T19:08:48 < Laurenceb> board works now
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2013-03-22T19:09:27 < zyp> fun issues
2013-03-22T19:09:39 < Laurenceb>  F1 i2c dies if the pin is unconnected
2013-03-22T19:09:41 < Robint91> Laurenceb, did you compile the linux kernel for the stm32
2013-03-22T19:09:46 < Robint91> Laurenceb, how big was it?
2013-03-22T19:09:47 < Laurenceb> not yet
2013-03-22T19:09:54 < Laurenceb> ill try when i have some time
2013-03-22T19:09:57 < rlc> Laurenceb: of course, no ack
2013-03-22T19:10:07 < Laurenceb> looks like st have a nice app note
2013-03-22T19:10:14 < Laurenceb> rlc: much worse than that
2013-03-22T19:10:21 < Laurenceb> start and stop bits jam on
2013-03-22T19:10:54 < jpa-> i've been making a lot of hairline cracks lately.. i'm using ID resistors soldered to a 2x5 IDC connector.. and if the resistor is placed poorly, too much force is excerted on it when you snap the connector closed
2013-03-22T19:10:57 < Laurenceb> peripheral becomes unresponsive
2013-03-22T19:11:05 < Laurenceb> hehe
2013-03-22T19:11:13 < Laurenceb> thats almost exactly what i had happen
2013-03-22T19:11:14 < rlc> Laurenceb: yeah, you cannot test i2c without a slave
2013-03-22T19:11:25 < Laurenceb> it only failed with the connector inserted
2013-03-22T19:11:34 < Laurenceb> so when i connected scope it worked
2013-03-22T19:11:40 < jpa-> indeed
2013-03-22T19:11:42 < jpa-> very annoying
2013-03-22T19:12:05 < Robint91> Laurenceb, sometimes a little capacitance will help
2013-03-22T19:12:16 < Laurenceb> interesting
2013-03-22T19:12:30 < Laurenceb> ive seen caps added to i2c on Xscale pxa270
2013-03-22T19:12:46 < Laurenceb> apparently the i2c will lockup without about 40pF capacitive loading
2013-03-22T19:13:11 < rlc> Laurenceb: reason?
2013-03-22T19:13:19 < Laurenceb> im guessing the io is really fast
2013-03-22T19:13:37 < Laurenceb> and you get reflections off ends of the bus
2013-03-22T19:13:56 < Robint91> Laurenceb, yeah, sometimes is the falling edge too fast, which will cause double triggers
2013-03-22T19:14:03 < Robint91> Laurenceb, reflections -_-
2013-03-22T19:14:17 < Robint91> Laurenceb, how long was the cable?
2013-03-22T19:14:23 < jpa-> they don't have configurable IO risetimes?
2013-03-22T19:14:26 < Laurenceb> about 1m
2013-03-22T19:14:33 < Laurenceb> jpa-: probably
2013-03-22T19:14:42 < Laurenceb> this was perman00b firmware
2013-03-22T19:14:57 < Laurenceb> ive replaced the board with f103 kit now
2013-03-22T19:15:03 < Laurenceb> and it runs faster O_o
2013-03-22T19:15:36 < Laurenceb> pxa270 was armv5 @113mhz or something...
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2013-03-22T19:46:19 < emeb> zyp: still delayed?
2013-03-22T19:46:37 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Quit: zzzzZZzzz]
2013-03-22T19:47:58 < zyp> yep
2013-03-22T19:48:08 < emeb> going to JP?
2013-03-22T19:48:19 < zyp> no, Oslo
2013-03-22T19:48:33 < zyp> oh, boarding now
2013-03-22T19:48:38 < emeb> have fun
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2013-03-22T19:58:00 < rlc> small question. Is the stlinkv2 supported by open source debugger/ programmer?
2013-03-22T19:58:09 < GargantuaSauce> openocd
2013-03-22T19:58:39 < rlc> can stlinkv2 do jtag also or just swd?
2013-03-22T19:58:40 < jpa-> and texane stlink (but openocd is better if it works)
2013-03-22T19:58:43 < jpa-> just swd
2013-03-22T19:59:03 < rlc> would it be better to jtag stm32 instead of swd?
2013-03-22T19:59:13 < jpa-> shouldn't be much difference
2013-03-22T19:59:17 < jpa-> jtag is just more pins
2013-03-22T19:59:31 < barthess> I use both
2013-03-22T19:59:35 < rlc> I don't really mind more pins though
2013-03-22T19:59:45 < barthess> no significant differences
2013-03-22T19:59:53 < rlc> barthess: what jtag device do you use?
2013-03-22T20:00:07 < rlc> I mean programmer/debugger
2013-03-22T20:00:13 < barthess> olimex "arm-usb-ocd"
2013-03-22T20:00:42 < barthess> both with openocd/eclipse/gcc/gdb
2013-03-22T20:03:48 < rlc> can I use one of those j-link to program the stm32?
2013-03-22T20:04:23 < barthess> never try j-link, but openocd claims support of this probe
2013-03-22T20:05:26 < rlc> I know they are a bit more expensive, but if faster, might worth it to use as production programmer as well
2013-03-22T20:06:47 < barthess> not sure about faster if you plan to use it with openocd
2013-03-22T20:08:01 < barthess> but it is interesting question. Can check it only on Monday
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2013-03-22T20:16:10 < barthess> rlc: from my point of view the slowest place is erasing flash. Is it depend on jtag "speed"?
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2013-03-22T20:23:29 < rlc> ah ok, I'm learning something new :)
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2013-03-22T20:53:43 < zyp> fwiw swd seems to be slightly faster
2013-03-22T20:59:08 <+Steffanx> How fast vs how fast?
2013-03-22T20:59:32 <+Steffanx> i should update the fw of my bmp too :)
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2013-03-22T21:35:32 < zyp> not a significant difference
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2013-03-22T22:05:35 < Robint91> did someone here worked on with the wiimote sensors?
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2013-03-22T22:16:23 < Laurenceb_> i know someone who did
2013-03-22T22:29:19 < Laurenceb_> but then he got high
2013-03-22T22:30:28 < Laurenceb_> www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzmXQY0l5Xs
2013-03-22T22:30:30 < Laurenceb_> i lolled
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2013-03-22T23:38:18 < Laurenceb_> wow
2013-03-22T23:38:19 < Laurenceb_> http://www.micro-epsilon.com/displacement-position-sensors/confocal-sensor/confocalDT_2405/index.html
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2013-03-23T01:32:56 < Tectu> anyone here ever used the DCMI ?
2013-03-23T01:36:40 < zyp> not yet, but I've read the DCMI chapter in the RM - does that count?
2013-03-23T01:37:57 < Tectu> it does, but I found the answer to my question in the RM as well :)
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2013-03-23T02:03:17 <+Steffanx> have some great plans Tectu ?
2013-03-23T02:04:28 < Tectu> not great
2013-03-23T02:04:39 < Tectu> I'd just like to write a DCMI HAL for ChibiOS/RT
2013-03-23T02:04:46 <+Steffanx> heh
2013-03-23T02:04:54 < dongs> useless.
2013-03-23T02:05:00 < dongs> why do you laways do useless shit
2013-03-23T02:05:36 < Tectu> dongs, are the BMPs ready for shipment?
2013-03-23T02:05:40 <+Steffanx> because you are our great example dongs
2013-03-23T02:06:13 < dongs> Tectu: as soon as I feel bored enough to figure out how to unfuck opensauce garbage zyp sent me for them
2013-03-23T02:06:38 < Tectu> lol
2013-03-23T02:06:50 < Tectu> I bet 7zip.org will do the job
2013-03-23T02:07:19 < qyx_> uhm, i was curious what "unfuck" could mean
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2013-03-23T02:07:43 <+Steffanx> dongs, you missed a word
2013-03-23T02:07:51 < dongs> qyx_: no idea, the dumb trash auto-locks flash pages on reset
2013-03-23T02:07:56 <+Steffanx> unfuck opensauce garbage => unfuck opensauce shit
2013-03-23T02:07:59 < dongs> so I cant actaully erase the faggot broken bootloader
2013-03-23T02:08:10 < dongs> i did it on one board somehow
2013-03-23T02:08:12 < dongs> lol.
2013-03-23T02:08:39 < qyx_> uh, so Tectu was wrong, unfuck != unzip
2013-03-23T02:08:39 < dongs> I think this bmp firmware is embedded equivalent of an annoying computer virus
2013-03-23T02:09:10 <+Steffanx> An open source virus.. what else you want?
2013-03-23T02:09:14 < dongs> yeah, really.
2013-03-23T02:09:27 < dongs> opensores virus that you need to install opensores aids tools to build! how  fitting.
2013-03-23T02:09:29 <+Steffanx> tarduino.cc is still empty sir
2013-03-23T02:09:38 < dongs> ive been busy blogging on lunix.tv
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2013-03-23T02:10:14 <+Steffanx> irc quotes .. boring
2013-03-23T02:14:46 < gxti> anybody used freescale m0 parts before?
2013-03-23T02:14:57 < emeb> dongs: can the STLINK Utility from ST do a full erase/reset on the BMP?
2013-03-23T02:15:10 < gxti> i was going to use an f3 for this but there's a freescale part that does almost everything i need at half the cost
2013-03-23T02:15:10 < dongs> emeb: i dont know, i dont have it, and i don't feel like installing it.
2013-03-23T02:15:16 < dongs> I have STVP which I presume does same thing.
2013-03-23T02:15:22 < dongs> gxti: wut?
2013-03-23T02:15:28 < emeb> I've used it for that before. works pretty easily.
2013-03-23T02:15:58 < gxti> the f3 cpu would have been total overkill, i just wanted the dac and adc
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2013-03-23T02:35:10 < zyp> emeb, I did that once
2013-03-23T02:35:23 < zyp> that time I broke the bootloader on my original bmp
2013-03-23T02:36:44 < zyp> dongs, didn't you get one working? just ship them and let Tectu fix the others with that
2013-03-23T02:37:30 < Tectu> mhm
2013-03-23T02:38:20 < dongs> zyp: lol
2013-03-23T02:38:31 < dongs> yeah I suppose thats the way
2013-03-23T02:38:50 < dongs> fixing opensauce with opensauce
2013-03-23T02:39:00 < dongs> can I actually USE that shit under windows?
2013-03-23T02:39:03 < Tectu> what's exactly the issue and what do I need to do for fixing?
2013-03-23T02:39:04 < dongs> after i install drivers
2013-03-23T02:39:14 < dongs> Tectu: erase the chip and flash new bootloader
2013-03-23T02:39:24 < Tectu> dongs, it has JTAG / SWD interface, no?
2013-03-23T02:39:27 < zyp> yes
2013-03-23T02:39:29 < dongs> of course
2013-03-23T02:39:37 < Tectu> dongs, where's the problem? why cannot you do it?
2013-03-23T02:39:44 < Tectu> don't you have an .elf?
2013-03-23T02:39:55 < dongs> Tectu: because the fucking opensores trash immediately locks flash after I unlock it, so I cant fucking erase it
2013-03-23T02:40:07 < dongs> i do, for some old trash version thats fucked up and has no working DFU
2013-03-23T02:40:18 < dongs> and its stuck on there because it auto-protects itself
2013-03-23T02:40:44 < gxti> good thing those closed sores tools work so much better
2013-03-23T02:41:03 < dongs> yeah they do
2013-03-23T02:41:09 < dongs> but I dont feel like making an adapter from jlink
2013-03-23T02:41:11 < Tectu> nice move, gxti
2013-03-23T02:41:19 < dongs> jlink would wipe that shit im sure
2013-03-23T02:41:25 < dongs> stlink is trash tho
2013-03-23T02:41:36 < Tectu> dongs, would I need to hack anything?
2013-03-23T02:41:36 < gxti> lol adapter
2013-03-23T02:41:59 < dongs> you'd probably have to recompile gdb
2013-03-23T02:42:03 < dongs> and half your lunix bawx
2013-03-23T02:42:08 < gxti> hurrr
2013-03-23T02:42:12 < dongs> with -funrorll-loops
2013-03-23T02:42:32 < gxti> openocd + stlink can probably work the reset pin but don't ask me how ;p
2013-03-23T02:42:40 < dongs> though most people these days consider watching miles of shit scroll by on a 80x25 terminal "hacking" so yes
2013-03-23T02:42:48 < zyp> Tectu, you should be able to just hook it up, erase and flash new
2013-03-23T02:42:53 < gxti> maybe just short reset to ground, attach and halt, remove reset, and erase
2013-03-23T02:43:01 < gxti> if you're lazy
2013-03-23T02:43:12 < dongs> oh, i wonder if i should try attach w/halt
2013-03-23T02:43:17 < gxti> shit i've got 3 BMPs in front of me now let's blow one up
2013-03-23T02:43:24 < dongs> but i dont think i did that shit on the 1st one
2013-03-23T02:43:27 < Tectu> zyp, not understanding why the so much better working closed source tools don't work?
2013-03-23T02:43:44 < gxti> lucky timing
2013-03-23T02:43:47 < zyp> well
2013-03-23T02:43:56 < zyp> mostly because dongs is doing it wrong, I believe :p
2013-03-23T02:43:58 < gxti> Tectu: apparently because he can't be bothered to connect them
2013-03-23T02:46:44 < gxti> oh right i'm a fucking genius who didn't connect the reset line on my version
2013-03-23T02:46:54 < gxti> never mind, no science tonight.
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2013-03-23T02:48:43 < zyp> Tectu, hmm, if I'm reading this correctly, you should be able to just hook it up and run the following commands from gdb: «mon option erase», «mon erase_mass»
2013-03-23T02:49:02 < zyp> the first should remove protection, and the second should remove all flash contents
2013-03-23T02:49:20 < zyp> and then you should be able to flash a new bootloader without any problems
2013-03-23T02:50:23 < Tectu> zyp, sounds easy
2013-03-23T02:50:29 < zyp> yes
2013-03-23T02:50:47 < zyp> I don't understand how dongs manages to make it hard to do right
2013-03-23T02:50:56 < Tectu> me too
2013-03-23T02:52:07 < zyp> the target should be halted all the time, so it shouldn't be able to reapply protection after it's removed, and then when flash is erased the code that does that is gone
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2013-03-23T02:54:42 < dongs> the problem is option bytes, they arent touched by erase
2013-03-23T02:54:52 < dongs> and resetting those needs a reset to re -read them (I think?)
2013-03-23T02:55:03 < dongs> so after i write them, it resets, and fucker protects itself again
2013-03-23T02:55:24 < zyp> no, a reset shouldn't be required
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2013-03-23T03:08:50 < Tectu> where does one find these values in the RM?
2013-03-23T03:08:50 < Tectu> #define STM32_ADC1_DMA_CHN      0x00000000
2013-03-23T03:08:59 < Tectu> #define STM32_ADC2_DMA_CHN      0x00001100
2013-03-23T03:09:07 < Tectu> #define STM32_ADC3_DMA_CHN      0x00000022
2013-03-23T03:12:03 < zyp> dma chapter
2013-03-23T03:12:21 < Tectu> yeah, searching that one
2013-03-23T03:12:25 < Tectu> (not the chapter)
2013-03-23T03:13:08 < zyp> I mean, the dma chapter has a table of which peripherals are on which dma channels for each dma peripheral
2013-03-23T03:13:22 < zyp> and that seems to be some encoded form, bitmap or something
2013-03-23T03:13:23 < Tectu> jep, that one I know, but the addresses?
2013-03-23T03:13:31 < zyp> it's not addrs
2013-03-23T03:14:02 < Tectu> well, the DCMI is on Channel 1
2013-03-23T03:14:11 < Tectu> Stream 1 and 7
2013-03-23T03:14:27 < zyp> hang on, I don't really have a clue about where you got this value from
2013-03-23T03:14:31 < zyp> so start with that
2013-03-23T03:14:36 < Tectu> so the   STM32_DCMI_DMA_CHN would now be the base address of the DMA1 channel 1?
2013-03-23T03:14:49 < zyp> no.
2013-03-23T03:14:56 < Tectu> zyp, it's some ChibiOS/RT stuff I'm reading
2013-03-23T03:15:12 < zyp> as I said, it's most likely some form of a bitmap
2013-03-23T03:15:24 < Tectu> #define ADC1_DMA_CHANNEL                                                    \
2013-03-23T03:15:24 < Tectu>   STM32_DMA_GETCHANNEL(STM32_ADC_ADC1_DMA_STREAM, STM32_ADC1_DMA_CHN)
2013-03-23T03:15:27 < zyp> that a function iterates through to figure out which channel/stream to use
2013-03-23T03:15:40 < zyp> see, there you have it
2013-03-23T03:15:56 < zyp> STM32_DMA_GETCHANNEL would be the shit to figure it out
2013-03-23T03:17:05 < gxti> every time i run out of usb connectors and go look at what's cheap on digikey it's totally different
2013-03-23T03:17:34 < zyp> different footprints, or just different vendors?
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2013-03-23T03:18:47 < gxti> i've only been using hirose, but they have so many variants
2013-03-23T03:19:29 < gxti> first one i used was this http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/UX60SC-MB-5ST(80)/H11671CT-ND/2004580
2013-03-23T03:19:33 < gxti> (out of stock)
2013-03-23T03:19:42 < gxti> then this http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/UX60SC-MB-5ST(80)/H11671CT-ND/2004580 (out of stock)
2013-03-23T03:20:24 < gxti> they have parts similar to those that would fit the footprint but the nice thing about that latter one as it was super cheap, and the compatible ones are not
2013-03-23T03:20:58 < gxti> don't really care though because i guess i'm switching to through-hole
2013-03-23T03:24:04 < zyp> ah, standard smt mini
2013-03-23T03:24:25 < zyp> I like the pth ones that emeb picked for his BOM
2013-03-23T03:25:27 < gxti> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0548190519/WM17115-ND/773802
2013-03-23T03:25:44 < zyp> they have shorter pins than the ones dongs are using, and therefore sits more or less flush with the underside of the board
2013-03-23T03:26:13 < zyp> which is kinda nice when they are the only pth components on the board
2013-03-23T03:27:14 < zyp> yes, that would be them
2013-03-23T03:27:38 < zyp> according to datasheet pins are 1.8mm
2013-03-23T03:29:07 < gxti> re freescale part earlier, disregard. only 1 dac is no good to me. f3 it is...
2013-03-23T03:29:43 < gxti> feels kind of stupid to use a $6 microcontroller to do some dac and adc and pwm and that's it, but i guess it's replacing discrete dac and adc so i don't feel too bad
2013-03-23T03:31:42 < zyp> overkill != stupid, especially not when it reduces complexity/bom
2013-03-23T03:32:08 < zyp> unless there is a huge price difference
2013-03-23T03:32:30 < gxti> the freescale is half the cost but compared to the rest of the board it washes out pretty readily
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2013-03-23T03:55:04 < timemob> Hmm the atmel a5 spam looks neat
2013-03-23T03:55:25 < timemob> What does everyone here think
2013-03-23T03:55:34 < zyp> spam?
2013-03-23T03:55:45 < timemob> Ya their mail about uh..
2013-03-23T03:56:01 < timemob> Sama5d3
2013-03-23T03:57:44 < gxti> they had to invent a new marketing initialism to describe it, not looking good
2013-03-23T03:58:16 < timemob> Lol
2013-03-23T03:58:22 < timemob> What is it
2013-03-23T03:58:33 < gxti> "eMPU"
2013-03-23T03:58:42 < timemob> You mean emcu shit? Ya lol
2013-03-23T03:59:01 < gxti> looks useful but i can't use 0.8mm bga so filed for later i guess.
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2013-03-23T03:59:24 < gxti> not that it's really all that unique compared to other modern stuff with a mmu
2013-03-23T04:00:20 < timemob> Wasn't zyp board a 0.8 pitch?
2013-03-23T04:00:36 < gxti> it's not rare or anything, just not convenient for me
2013-03-23T04:00:48 < zyp> dongs, http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-05.html#11:31:37
2013-03-23T04:00:55 < gxti> oshpark can't do it and i'm not going to spend hundreds on prototypes
2013-03-23T04:01:03 < zyp> took a while to find it
2013-03-23T04:01:07 < timemob> <gxti> unless it's dip I don't care
2013-03-23T04:01:17 < zyp> also, my board were 1mm pitch
2013-03-23T04:01:19 < timemob> Zyp nice timestamp
2013-03-23T04:01:52 < zyp> blame Robint91
2013-03-23T04:03:21 < timemob> Lol oshpark
2013-03-23T04:03:28 < timemob> Traaash
2013-03-23T04:03:40 < timemob> Isn't seeds studio spec better
2013-03-23T04:03:45 < timemob> For 4l
2013-03-23T04:03:51 < gxti> maybe? they fuck everything up though
2013-03-23T04:04:03 < timemob> Which Is sad because their spec is pitiful
2013-03-23T04:04:12 < timemob> Ya
2013-03-23T04:04:37 < timemob> 100% etest comes back with visible shorts
2013-03-23T04:04:43 < gxti> cheap china fab is always going to be shit
2013-03-23T04:04:48 < timemob> Fuckers
2013-03-23T04:04:54 < gxti> might as well just set your money on fire
2013-03-23T04:05:32 < timemob> Not that I would ever order from them my stuff is cheap/free if I panel with other customers
2013-03-23T04:05:42 < gxti> oshpark might be upgrading to better specs in a few months anyway
2013-03-23T04:08:34 < upgrdman> what does that mean? they're getting new machines to fab with?
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2013-03-23T04:09:33 < gxti> it's a batch service, doesn't actually fab anything directly
2013-03-23T04:10:00 < upgrdman> o
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2013-03-23T04:11:18 < timemob> Probably means they have made enough money they can afford higher spec now
2013-03-23T04:11:37 < timemob> Amirite
2013-03-23T04:12:00 < gxti> that and knowing better what's actually feasible
2013-03-23T04:12:15 < gxti> and this is all on US fab, too
2013-03-23T04:12:39 < timemob> Pfft
2013-03-23T04:12:45 < upgrdman> just made a pcb. photoresist was a little overexposed so the resist got thin real quick when developed. board turned out ok, but the ferric chloride got through the resist in some areas and started to eat away a little. damn. now the tin coatings looks mottled :(
2013-03-23T04:13:15 < timemob> Who the fuck etches pcbs in 2013
2013-03-23T04:13:29 < upgrdman> people who do one off things.
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2013-03-23T04:13:32 < gxti> could be handy for low grade shit, but not worth the trouble
2013-03-23T04:13:42 < gxti> for me anyway
2013-03-23T04:13:50 < timemob> I do one off things
2013-03-23T04:13:54 < zyp> upgrdman, was it your board I complained about the other day?
2013-03-23T04:13:59 -!- sark_ [~sark@37.247.88.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2013-03-23T04:14:08 < timemob> And throw away extra boards
2013-03-23T04:14:10 < upgrdman> most of my stuff is easy enough to do single sided, with 0 - 12 links. not a big deal for me.
2013-03-23T04:14:20 < gxti> i'm jelly that you can just throw shit on customer panels
2013-03-23T04:14:26 < upgrdman> zyp: dunno. what board did you whine about?
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2013-03-23T04:14:51 < zyp> upgrdman, some board with no pour
2013-03-23T04:14:55 < timemob> Teehee
2013-03-23T04:15:06 < gxti> i write software for a living, no such luxury
2013-03-23T04:15:22 < upgrdman> zyp: dont think it was me. my board has a ground fill
2013-03-23T04:15:27 < upgrdman> i post a pic
2013-03-23T04:15:30 < zyp> timemob, last time I etched a board was when I wanted a dummy to tune the trace antenna before shipping it off to fab
2013-03-23T04:15:40 < timemob> Hej
2013-03-23T04:15:42 < zyp> upgrdman, ok, nevermind then :)
2013-03-23T04:16:07 < timemob> Can't you just calculate that kinda shit
2013-03-23T04:16:21 < gxti> in RF calculations are just a nice start
2013-03-23T04:16:26 < timemob> And tolerance of etched crap being way lower
2013-03-23T04:16:50 < zyp> no, it's dependant on shape and thickness and shit of pcb and planes and enclosure
2013-03-23T04:17:14 < zyp> tolerance is not very relevant
2013-03-23T04:17:43 < zyp> it's to compensate for antenna detuning from the shit around it
2013-03-23T04:18:08 < timemob> Mkay
2013-03-23T04:18:15 < zyp> so you just need a model pcb with the antenna and planes, and stuff it into the enclosure
2013-03-23T04:18:38 < zyp> then play around with VNA while cutting it shorter
2013-03-23T04:18:54 < timemob> Mkay. Fucking meeting over bbl
2013-03-23T04:18:55 < R2COM> no...
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2013-03-23T04:19:10 < R2COM> its not a way to go now, there are planar simulators in free  or  "lite" version
2013-03-23T04:19:12 < R2COM> try them out
2013-03-23T04:19:29 < R2COM> they allow simulation and modeling of planar surfaces
2013-03-23T04:19:42 < upgrdman> zyp: http://farrellf.com/temp/lcd_rf_pcb.png
2013-03-23T04:20:12 < zyp> R2COM, planar surfaces? what about the enclosure?
2013-03-23T04:20:16 < R2COM> and also allow even substitution of s-parameters of some block (say amplifier or whatever), and then using it in simulation, to check whether your line you are thinking will be fine or no
2013-03-23T04:21:02 < gxti> retina: making screenshots ugly and useless since 2012
2013-03-23T04:21:17 < upgrdman> :) only if you have a low res screen
2013-03-23T04:21:36 < zyp> why the fuck aren't you utilizing the resolution?
2013-03-23T04:21:36 < R2COM> zyp: well, here is the thing, it can do planar surface simulation, and also allow you to define ideal ground box, so what you basically do is: figure out what type of enclosure you have, (preferably some sort of box), and then define that box in that planar simulator around your PCB, and it simulates not only planar surface of your etch, but also an environment which it is wrapped in
2013-03-23T04:21:50 < R2COM> zyp: Sonnet Lite.
2013-03-23T04:22:13 < upgrdman> zyp: i am, just not with linux software because their gui tookits suck at handling small pixels
2013-03-23T04:22:18 < gxti> i don't see any purpose in wasting money and energy drawing everything at double resolution when it's perfectly legible already
2013-03-23T04:22:26 < zyp> R2COM, so, how do you figure out the properties of your enclosure? :p
2013-03-23T04:22:43 < zyp> gxti, way to waste money on a display you aren't utilizing then :p
2013-03-23T04:22:58 < gxti> zyp: huh?
2013-03-23T04:23:04 < R2COM> zyp: as I said, you assume grounded enclosure, and that is why i mentioned (preferably some sort of box), once you do that, you put that box parameters in planar simulatiro, and... you will be close enough to reality
2013-03-23T04:23:31 < gxti> R2COM: what's your point? surely not that one shouldn't bother testing and adjusting in the real world
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2013-03-23T04:23:37 < zyp> R2COM, grounded?
2013-03-23T04:23:47 < R2COM> zyp: yes
2013-03-23T04:23:51 < zyp> it's a plastic case, you are radiating through it.
2013-03-23T04:24:29 < upgrdman> gxti: i DONT draw everything at double res. only the linux stuff. and only because linux cant handle it, sadly. i hate mac os...
2013-03-23T04:24:32 < R2COM> gxti: I was not making points, I was giving ideas of simulating stuff, and approximating how things could behave, and I myself did that tons of times, but mostly with different types of RF microweave filters.
2013-03-23T04:24:40 < upgrdman> but PDFs... omfg so good on a retina
2013-03-23T04:24:54 < R2COM> zyp: Ok, I did not know its platic case, things will be different then
2013-03-23T04:25:33 < zyp> R2COM, we already had a decent approximate, so we added some mm to the antenna length to have something to cut from, then made a mock pcb and actually measured it with an actual case
2013-03-23T04:25:49 < R2COM> okay
2013-03-23T04:26:19 < R2COM> then, I would recommend using HFSS if you want relatively accurate model, but I doubt that it has "lite" versions, it will cost you.
2013-03-23T04:26:21 < zyp> which was a few hours work, your method sounds like at least as much work
2013-03-23T04:26:42 < R2COM> no, my method is quick, if applied properly, I do that all the time.
2013-03-23T04:26:43 -!- hackkitten [~Maya@s529c4932.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2013-03-23T04:27:17 < R2COM> but I am not going to argue, I just gave idea, you do the way you think is best of course ;)
2013-03-23T04:27:18 < zyp> oh, and our method gave us provable real world results, not just theoretical.
2013-03-23T04:27:41 < zyp> but whatever
2013-03-23T04:28:03 < R2COM> what I said, takes maybe minutes to make up, and around 10 minutes to wait, and that is... before submission to fab :)
2013-03-23T04:28:08 < zyp> it was for the uni project I did two years ago, I hardly could care less about it now :p
2013-03-23T04:28:18 < gxti> if you don't want to argue i recommend not opening the conversation with "no... it's not a way to go now"
2013-03-23T04:28:35 < R2COM> and after fab, all I have to do is, just measure it with vna, and see that I was right, and I just have several little discrepancies, which are miserable :)
2013-03-23T04:29:01 < R2COM> ok
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2013-03-23T04:29:23 < R2COM> gxti: Foff. I open conversations the way I like. moron.
2013-03-23T04:29:31 < gxti> i noticed
2013-03-23T04:29:32 < zyp> I'm sorry if I appear grumpy, it's 3:30 and I'm getting tired :)
2013-03-23T04:33:16 < R2COM> gxti: My point was to give some quick hint to "close-to-reality" simulation of stuff, which takes 15 mins total, and which has great potential to minimize bench work with real instrument, and possibly even resubmitting design (rf design) to fab, and you took my point differently, like "one should not bother testing in real world", which is not what I said at all! but you are ignorant idiot, and thats why you understood it that way.
2013-03-23T04:34:35 < gxti> zyp: i don't think you have to worry about appearing grumpy.
2013-03-23T04:34:58 < zyp> got to keep up appearances!
2013-03-23T04:35:12 < upgrdman> damn it mouser. y u no delver faster
2013-03-23T04:35:25 < upgrdman> wating on solder paste
2013-03-23T04:35:27 < upgrdman> :(
2013-03-23T04:36:40 < zyp> R2COM, either way, my point was that the last time I etched something was to get a model I could test instantly, with the underlying argument being that self-etching is pretty dead
2013-03-23T04:37:15 < zyp> so you are really just expanding on my point, and I agree on that part
2013-03-23T04:37:15 < gxti> in this crowd certainly
2013-03-23T04:39:51 < upgrdman> :) does no one else like quick one off boards?
2013-03-23T04:40:32 < gxti> time is money upgrdman, and etching pcbs takes time. lots of it if the design is complex.
2013-03-23T04:41:23 < gxti> i'd rather design it now and have a nice surprise in two weeks than spend all day dicking with one project
2013-03-23T04:42:16 < zyp> I don't really mind the etching, it's the end result
2013-03-23T04:42:24 < upgrdman> fair enough. i do electronics as a hobby. not worried about time (within reason)
2013-03-23T04:42:33 < zyp> no plating, no mask
2013-03-23T04:42:44 < zyp> and drilling is tedious
2013-03-23T04:42:49 < upgrdman> plating is trivial. all my pcbs are tinned.
2013-03-23T04:42:56 < upgrdman> and i do almost all smd.
2013-03-23T04:42:59 < upgrdman> :)
2013-03-23T04:43:13 < gxti> lots of fun chemicals and mess
2013-03-23T04:43:15 < zyp> and I'm not sure what the best resolution I could do myself is
2013-03-23T04:43:37 < gxti> i find solder paste annoying enough already, sloshing acids and liquid tin about would drive me up the wall
2013-03-23T04:43:56 < upgrdman> i find 8/8 mil to be reliable for DIY. 5/5 is doable but not a good idea
2013-03-23T04:44:05 < upgrdman> most of my traces are 10mil
2013-03-23T04:44:29 < zyp> I have enough projects to keep myself busy, so you just have to pipeline it ;)
2013-03-23T04:45:11 < upgrdman> ya
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2013-03-23T04:45:33 < upgrdman> most of my stuff is spur-of-the-moment... but then it turned in a month long drawn out process
2013-03-23T04:45:42 < upgrdman> into
2013-03-23T04:46:06 < zyp> it's more fun to make good boards than making quick boards :p
2013-03-23T04:46:23 < upgrdman> this damn lcd/rf pcb has been in the works for two months now :( when i borked my first one by shorting one of the mcu VDD's to ground, i lost my drive
2013-03-23T04:46:54 < zyp> the quadrotor board I've been coding for recently was designed over a year ago, haven't found time to do too much earlier
2013-03-23T04:47:09 < upgrdman> no more attempting to bodge stuff when LQFPs. im now a firm believer in test points on unused pins for easy bodging.
2013-03-23T04:47:38 < zyp> heh
2013-03-23T04:47:48 < zyp> almost same happened to me
2013-03-23T04:48:20 < zyp> I killed one board by hitting the supply to the reg with a voltage spike
2013-03-23T04:48:42 < zyp> killed the reg, and apparently shot through and killed the F4 as well
2013-03-23T04:49:16 < zyp> just as I was testing while assembling the quadrotor
2013-03-23T04:49:33 < upgrdman> i was lifting a LQFP leg with a hobby knife, and managed to pop the VDD pin next to it askew and shorted it to ground
2013-03-23T04:49:57 < zyp> you were lifting a leg with a knife, while powered?
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2013-03-23T04:50:06 < zyp> or did you just fail to notice it?
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2013-03-23T04:50:47 < upgrdman> wtf. why was a dropped? netsplit?
2013-03-23T04:51:00 < zyp> dunno
2013-03-23T04:51:11 < zyp> anyway, falling asleep, talk to you later
2013-03-23T04:51:15 < upgrdman> k
2013-03-23T04:51:18 < upgrdman> g'night
2013-03-23T04:51:26 < zyp> g'<yourtimeoftheday>
2013-03-23T04:51:54 < upgrdman> g'8pm
2013-03-23T04:52:02 < R2COM> zyp: god natt!
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2013-03-23T05:03:54 < dongs> did he ever post a pic
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2013-03-23T05:27:19 < dongs> sup trolls
2013-03-23T05:27:52 < dongs> < upgrdman> zyp: http://farrellf.com/temp/lcd_rf_pcb.png
2013-03-23T05:27:55 < dongs> what. the. fuck.
2013-03-23T05:28:27 < upgrdman> :)
2013-03-23T05:28:42 < upgrdman> i cant wait for the crits
2013-03-23T05:28:44 < dongs> no seriosuly what hte fuck are those shits youre routing wires under
2013-03-23T05:28:47 < dongs> DIP resistorsR?
2013-03-23T05:28:50 < upgrdman> no
2013-03-23T05:28:53 < upgrdman> SMD links
2013-03-23T05:29:01 < dongs> ? whats that
2013-03-23T05:29:04 < dongs> like giant 0R resistors?
2013-03-23T05:29:06 < upgrdman> tin things that look like /-------\
2013-03-23T05:29:15 < upgrdman> hold on, i'll get a link
2013-03-23T05:29:19 < dongs> yeah.
2013-03-23T05:29:22 < dongs> cause i have no idea
2013-03-23T05:29:43 < gxti> because you don't use single-sided pcbs, because you're sane :p
2013-03-23T05:30:13 < dongs> also that screenshot shows teh awesomeness of lunix fonts
2013-03-23T05:30:24 < dongs> you can see the contrast between macfag fonts and then you see lunix
2013-03-23T05:30:27 < dongs> and you want to stab
2013-03-23T05:30:45 < dongs> upgrdman: why dont you just run macfag+wine version of dicktrace instead of wasting time wiht this opensauce stuff
2013-03-23T05:30:55 < upgrdman> that just cause i have x11 set to double res, cause linux apps cant handle high-dpi very well
2013-03-23T05:31:01 < R2COM> heh
2013-03-23T05:31:03 < R2COM> what is that
2013-03-23T05:31:06 < dongs> suuure
2013-03-23T05:31:21 < R2COM> what means "rf" in that context
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2013-03-23T05:31:31 < dongs> < upgrdman> that just cause i have x11 set to double res, cause linux apps cant handle anything very well
2013-03-23T05:31:34 < dongs> ^ ftfy
2013-03-23T05:31:37 < gxti> a 5 year old can make a font renderer that looks better at 3x the dpi :p
2013-03-23T05:31:39 < R2COM> I dont find it to be typical "rf" pcb though
2013-03-23T05:32:10 < upgrdman> its not an rf pcb
2013-03-23T05:32:20 < upgrdman> its combined an lcd/touch, and an rf pcb
2013-03-23T05:32:29 < upgrdman> a cheapy chinese cc2500 based module
2013-03-23T05:32:33 < R2COM> ?
2013-03-23T05:32:38 < upgrdman> smd link: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=S1621-46virtualkey57420000virtualkey855-S1621-46
2013-03-23T05:32:40 < R2COM> what is rf wqorking frequency range?
2013-03-23T05:32:44 < upgrdman> 2.4ghz
2013-03-23T05:32:45 < dongs> 2.4ghz i guess
2013-03-23T05:32:48 < R2COM> lol
2013-03-23T05:32:49 < dongs> since thtas what cc2500 is
2013-03-23T05:32:51 < R2COM> ok good good
2013-03-23T05:33:20 < R2COM> It might work, but I think its designed in phony way
2013-03-23T05:33:36 < upgrdman> it should work fine
2013-03-23T05:33:51 < upgrdman> i pulled the 2.4 modules out of some scary bad chinese hobby tx
2013-03-23T05:34:11 < upgrdman> i lol'd at their 7x7 array of 0ohm resistors
2013-03-23T05:34:20 < R2COM> here is how "rf" pcb should look like
2013-03-23T05:34:21 < R2COM> http://imgur.com/sjyHT9q
2013-03-23T05:34:35 < upgrdman> im not making a god damn rf pcb
2013-03-23T05:34:41 < R2COM> ok
2013-03-23T05:35:14 < upgrdman> im making a pcb with a mcu on it, that happens to interface with an lcd/touchscreen, and an rf module. the rf module is on its own self-contained pcb
2013-03-23T05:35:24 < R2COM> ok
2013-03-23T05:35:56 < R2COM> but if some trace comes out of its pcb, which is rated for 2.4ghz, then  some  "special handling" must be done on it
2013-03-23T05:35:56 < upgrdman> one of these pieces of crap: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/CC2500-Wireless-Module-Small-size-2-4GHz/342715593.html
2013-03-23T05:36:11  * gxti twitches
2013-03-23T05:36:30 < dongs> R2COM: cool amp
2013-03-23T05:36:44 < R2COM> yea
2013-03-23T05:36:44 < dongs> over 9000wattsA?
2013-03-23T05:36:58 < dongs> I got a 50W uhf pallette amp
2013-03-23T05:36:59 < R2COM> no, its a 90mA gain block
2013-03-23T05:37:11 < R2COM> its not "power" amp
2013-03-23T05:37:24 < dongs> been meaning to set it up and blank out some tv signals in the area
2013-03-23T05:37:35 < R2COM> haha! nice!
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2013-03-23T05:49:10 < dongs> got a reel of samsung 18pF caps from china for like $5
2013-03-23T05:49:18 < dongs> didnt know samsunmg makes caps
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2013-03-23T06:09:56 < upgrdman> what do you need xxpF caps for? rf?
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2013-03-23T06:11:32 < dongs> crystals?
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2013-03-23T06:30:18 < gxti> can't recall anything other than crystal loading and rf that i've used them for recently
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2013-03-23T06:31:19 < dongs> i got some 0.5pF caps for RF
2013-03-23T06:31:39 < flop> nice
2013-03-23T06:42:02 < upgrdman> 0.5pF? wouldn't a 5mm long trace do that? :)
2013-03-23T06:44:34 < dongs> probably
2013-03-23T06:44:40 < dongs> or just air
2013-03-23T06:47:21 < R2COM1> its silly to think just of cap. value when one talks RF
2013-03-23T06:47:30 < R2COM1> there are tons of other factors too
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2013-03-23T06:48:02 < dongs> depends on number of nearby running lunix clusters
2013-03-23T06:48:09 < R2COM> true true
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2013-03-23T07:40:17 < dongs> http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/3/18/14/enhanced-buzz-25083-1363629736-7.jpg
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2013-03-23T08:11:16 < emeb_mac> 1st world problems
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2013-03-23T08:22:21 < fxd0h> Access violation at address 16DEA35C in module 'ADVPCB.DLL'
2013-03-23T08:22:42 < fxd0h> gotta love altium
2013-03-23T08:23:25 < Bird|lappy> well, I've had gEDA/pcb die on me a few times too, so it happens to the best of us
2013-03-23T08:23:42 < Bird|lappy> and who knows? could have been some third party doing something naughty
2013-03-23T08:24:14 < Bird|lappy> (some little helper tool screwing with the FPCW in a hook DLL's a real favorite :P )
2013-03-23T08:27:30 < dongs> well, if you paid for that altium you could complain
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2013-03-23T08:28:20 < dongs> time to load up dicknplace
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2013-03-23T10:01:06 < dongs> http://www.semtech.com/images/datasheet/sc189.pdf  wonder whats wrong with this
2013-03-23T10:01:44 < R2COM> nothing
2013-03-23T10:01:49 < R2COM> I'v used semtech
2013-03-23T10:01:55 < R2COM> they are Ok
2013-03-23T10:02:08 < dongs> well, its cheap, etc and doesnt look too bad. must be a catch?
2013-03-23T10:02:20 < dongs> i used a shitty AO switcher before hte ripple was horrendous
2013-03-23T10:02:30 < R2COM> no, they are fine for genral purpose projects
2013-03-23T10:03:15 < R2COM> however... if you are doing some work which involves high fidelity expencive components on board, I highly recommend using Linear Technology
2013-03-23T10:03:22 < R2COM> you will pay like 5$ more, but its worth it
2013-03-23T10:03:43 < dongs> yea yea
2013-03-23T10:03:52 < dongs> well, im gonna use it for 1.2Vcore for fpga
2013-03-23T10:04:00 < dongs> probly ~1A draw max
2013-03-23T10:04:18 < R2COM> well, I did use semtech with xc6 xilinx fpga's
2013-03-23T10:04:25 < dongs> OK. good enough
2013-03-23T10:05:31 < R2COM> also, about ripple, one can reduce it significantly with proper filtering
2013-03-23T10:05:47 < R2COM> but it really must be well though filter, not just sticking some caps...
2013-03-23T10:06:26 < R2COM> it has to involve analysis of capacitor behaviour at different fequencies, and probably even adding additional blocking inductors, three terminal capacitors and ferrite beads
2013-03-23T10:06:46 < R2COM> filter can get complex, but yet cheap. and pull down the noise tremendously.
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2013-03-23T10:12:15 < R2COM> this one was my some testboard with sc183+spartan 6
2013-03-23T10:12:16 < R2COM> http://imgur.com/q3SOEyY
2013-03-23T10:12:36 < R2COM> theres also sd card, but I havent used it
2013-03-23T10:13:01 < R2COM> I used all except usb and sd card
2013-03-23T10:13:59 < R2COM> on left are semtech chips, 1.2v and 3.3v fixed.
2013-03-23T10:15:22 < dongs> epic soldering
2013-03-23T10:15:30 < dongs> ya
2013-03-23T10:15:53 < R2COM> that was just some test board
2013-03-23T10:16:12 < R2COM> some soldering was done in a quick way, some with iron
2013-03-23T10:16:30 < R2COM> some of the connector I did not have, and cut out from another
2013-03-23T10:16:51 < R2COM> I never did a stencil for that board
2013-03-23T10:17:32 < dongs> lol so howdid you do the bga
2013-03-23T10:18:57 < R2COM> put it on that silkscreen which you see on that pic (so that I could see its frame around the die), and then heat up in a way corresponding to reflow
2013-03-23T10:19:34 < R2COM> after reflow I selectively soldered some components with just iron by hand later
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2013-03-23T10:19:50 < R2COM> although of course it would be easier to do it all at once
2013-03-23T10:20:16 < sterna1> so, anyone here at robotChallange?
2013-03-23T10:20:44 < R2COM> I can challenge any robot in the universe!
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2013-03-23T10:53:46 < baird> CuriousityRover hits! R2COM takes +20 damage.
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2013-03-23T12:11:11 < dongs> New MicroXplorer generates the STM32 pinout initialization code
2013-03-23T12:11:15 < dongs> more bloatware autogenreated
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2013-03-23T14:05:07 < dongs> ST's new parametric tables manage to rape my chrome with 100% cpu usage
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2013-03-23T18:40:37 < Laurenceb_> http://www.pitlab.com/autopitlot-articles/54-comparision-of-magnetometers.html
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2013-03-23T18:54:44 < dongs> why d idnt they test the latest hmc mag?
2013-03-23T18:54:45 < dongs> useless.
2013-03-23T18:55:01 < Tectu> dongs, so got the bmp problem figured out in the meantime?
2013-03-23T18:55:13 < dongs> http://www.pitlab.com/autopitlot/mod_gps2.0_bot.jpg what the fuck
2013-03-23T18:55:18 < dongs> Tectu: i havent even looked at it.
2013-03-23T18:55:25 < dongs> i have projects that pay way more than this that are higher priority.
2013-03-23T18:55:27 < Tectu> I'm impressed how much you love me
2013-03-23T18:55:46 < Tectu> I fully understand, and it has no priority for me as well :)
2013-03-23T18:56:17 < Tectu> dongs, see, you never have to search your i2c pullups again!
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2013-03-23T18:59:53 <+Steffanx> wb in belgium Robint91
2013-03-23T19:00:13 < Robint91> Hi Steffanx
2013-03-23T19:00:35 <+Steffanx> said hi to many of your CO.net fellows?
2013-03-23T19:00:53 < Robint91> yeah
2013-03-23T19:00:54 < Robint91> a few
2013-03-23T19:02:58 < Tectu> you're steven harris?
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2013-03-23T19:50:01 < gxti> from my inbox: "I put +5v (I have a special serial card) on pin 9 (Ring-In).  That made smoke."
2013-03-23T19:51:59 < Robint91> gxti, -_-
2013-03-23T19:52:13 < Robint91> that shouldn't happen?
2013-03-23T19:52:45 < gxti> i tied the unused RS232 pins to the positive or negative supply so they would be in a valid and useful state. did not expect people to go poking 5v into it.
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2013-03-23T19:53:55 < Robint91> gxti, what card is that exactly?
2013-03-23T19:54:05 < gxti> the "special serial card"? dunno, customer did not elaborate
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2013-03-23T19:54:54 < jpa-> gxti: should have put series resistors there :)
2013-03-23T19:55:02 < gxti> doin that right now
2013-03-23T19:55:11 < gxti> not that it's my fault he put power on the output pin of a poor st3232
2013-03-23T19:55:33 < jpa-> but RS232 should be current limited per the spec ,)
2013-03-23T19:55:39 < gxti> shhhh
2013-03-23T19:56:11 < gxti> i hope 270 ohms is suitable because i'm not adding another unique part on this board
2013-03-23T19:57:27 < Robint91> gxti, so 5 volts kills that part
2013-03-23T19:57:28 < Robint91> strange
2013-03-23T19:57:44 < gxti> 5 volts on its power rail yes, not a signal input or output
2013-03-23T19:58:27 < gxti> i wasn't going to upgrade to a full 5 out / 3 in part just to tie some lines high :P
2013-03-23T19:59:31 < Robint91> gxti, oh, that kills it
2013-03-23T19:59:54 < gxti> according to customer it still seems to work, probably without negative swing now.
2013-03-23T20:01:39 < gxti> modern stuff tends to accept 0v as if it were negative which is why the ardiuno crowd loves to use shitty 1-transistor shifters instead of proper voltages
2013-03-23T20:04:49 <+Steffanx> co.net is not co.net, but circuitsonline.net Tectu
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2013-03-23T20:18:22 < jpa-> hmm, no vbat pin in stm32l151
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2013-03-23T22:07:18 <+Steffanx> found aynthing interesting in rosmalen btw Robint91 ?
2013-03-23T22:28:08 < Tectu> Steffanx, k
2013-03-23T22:28:24 <+Steffanx> dutch hobby bobby electronics website :)
2013-03-23T22:29:18 < Tectu> :)
2013-03-23T22:29:31 < Tectu> I like everything that's from dutch or any other relation to that
2013-03-23T22:29:40 <+Steffanx> *from the netherlands
2013-03-23T22:29:51 <+Steffanx> too bad rail gun talk is forbidden there
2013-03-23T22:30:18 <+Steffanx> And one of the moderators is an annoying ass.. Robint91 probaly agrees on that :)
2013-03-23T22:30:21 <+Steffanx> -:)
2013-03-23T22:30:55 < Tectu> lol
2013-03-23T22:30:57 <+Steffanx> not annoying as Laurenceb, but overactive see-i-have-powa-annoying
2013-03-23T22:31:01 < gxti> dutchland!
2013-03-23T22:31:05 < Tectu> there actually are annoying dutch people in the world?
2013-03-23T22:31:12 <+Steffanx> Im not annoying sometimes?
2013-03-23T22:31:20 < Tectu> no, you're just not always helpful ;)
2013-03-23T22:31:32 <+Steffanx> Sorry, yo uare right gxti
2013-03-23T22:31:50 < gxti> i think dutchland is somewhere in pennsylvania
2013-03-23T22:31:52  * Tectu needs some more stroopwafels
2013-03-23T22:33:08 <+Steffanx> Ask you gf
2013-03-23T22:33:34 < Tectu> she just turned over to sleep
2013-03-23T22:33:50 < Tectu> we still have some stroope, but no stroopewafels
2013-03-23T22:34:39 <+Steffanx> -e
2013-03-23T22:34:53 < Tectu> stroop?
2013-03-23T22:34:55 < Tectu> meh, sorry
2013-03-23T22:35:40 <+Steffanx> You can't really compare stroop to the taste of stroopwafels
2013-03-23T22:36:15 < Tectu> I know
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2013-03-23T22:38:37 < Laurenceb_> Tectu has a gf?!
2013-03-23T22:38:41 < Laurenceb_> no way
2013-03-23T22:38:45 < Tectu> o.O
2013-03-23T22:39:34 <+Steffanx> his right hand Laurenceb.. whatelse
2013-03-23T22:39:43 < Laurenceb_> lol
2013-03-23T22:43:11 -!- daku is now known as DaKu
2013-03-23T22:51:51 < Tectu> has anyone of you ever designed a flex PCB?
2013-03-23T22:53:15 < BrainDamage> faprenceb did
2013-03-23T22:53:45 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, dat true?
2013-03-23T22:54:00 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-23T22:54:06 < Laurenceb_> i used leiton.de
2013-03-23T22:54:56 < Tectu> are there special things you need to know when making one?
2013-03-23T22:55:02 < Laurenceb_> its pretty expensive - i spent 600 euros
2013-03-23T22:55:07 < Laurenceb_> not really
2013-03-23T22:56:23 < Laurenceb_> you could make your own
2013-03-23T22:57:05 < BrainDamage> you'll need acid resistant adhesive copper foil to laminate over the pcb substrate
2013-03-23T22:57:25 < BrainDamage> it can be bought, some people used it for instance on glass to make glass pcb
2013-03-23T22:57:49 < Tectu> 600€ for how many, what size, Laurenceb ?
2013-03-23T22:57:56 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, what did you do anyways?
2013-03-23T22:58:07 < Tectu> also, is it possible to get four layers or two only?
2013-03-23T22:58:20 < Tectu> BrainDamage, glass PCBs i've seen before. It is really just for a nice look, no?
2013-03-23T22:58:30 < BrainDamage> pretty much
2013-03-23T22:59:06 < BrainDamage> altought for some things, nice look can be as important as functionality
2013-03-23T22:59:12 < Laurenceb_> single layer
2013-03-23T22:59:31 < Laurenceb_> you can do more layers, it hardly costs more
2013-03-23T22:59:38 < Laurenceb_> well - for <100 units
2013-03-23T22:59:56 < Laurenceb_> you can get up to 4 layer flexi quite easily
2013-03-23T23:00:15 < Tectu> so if you need only 5, you're quite fucked, no
2013-03-23T23:01:21 < Laurenceb_> yes
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2013-03-23T23:02:15 < Tectu> where did you use one?
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2013-03-23T23:06:06 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, ^
2013-03-23T23:06:13 < Laurenceb_> ill grab a photo, just a sec
2013-03-23T23:06:22 < Posterdati> hi
2013-03-23T23:06:27 < Laurenceb_> inb4 "it'll be goatse"
2013-03-23T23:06:44 < Posterdati> please Is there anyone using stm32f107? I'm trying to solder it with a controlled oven, I'd like to know if the bakeout phase must be performed before soldering
2013-03-23T23:07:11 < Posterdati> I'm using a lsqfp100 package for stm32f107
2013-03-23T23:07:25 < Tectu> Posterdati, datasheet / reference manual need to contain soldering informations
2013-03-23T23:07:44 < Posterdati> Tectu: I followed that
2013-03-23T23:08:00 < Tectu> Posterdati, but isn't "bakeout" mostly the last phase, when you cool gently down? o.O
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2013-03-23T23:08:02 < Posterdati> Tectu: resulting in a 12 Ohm impedance from 3.3V to GNF
2013-03-23T23:08:05  * Tectu never did reflow himself
2013-03-23T23:08:13 < Tectu> Posterdati, lol what?
2013-03-23T23:08:19 < Posterdati> Tectu: no
2013-03-23T23:08:37 < Tectu> with impedance you mean resistance, right?
2013-03-23T23:08:38 < Posterdati> Tectu: bakeout is a preheating to remove moisture from within chip
2013-03-23T23:08:45 < Tectu> anways, 12 ohms doesn't seem to be right ^^
2013-03-23T23:08:51 < Tectu> oh
2013-03-23T23:08:53 < Posterdati> no it isn't
2013-03-23T23:09:28 < Tectu> so here comes my question... why the fuck do you use an oven for an LQFP?
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2013-03-23T23:09:38 < Tectu> I just soldered an STM32F407 in an LQFP-144 package the other friday
2013-03-23T23:09:42 < Tectu> and it works like a charm
2013-03-23T23:09:47 < Tectu> soldered with a normal soldering iron
2013-03-23T23:09:58 < zyp> Tectu, why not?
2013-03-23T23:10:16 < Posterdati> Tectu: to solder the whole board
2013-03-23T23:10:26 < Tectu> Posterdati, that's a fair point indeed
2013-03-23T23:10:27 < Posterdati> there are other components on the board
2013-03-23T23:10:47 < BrainDamage> also, lazyness
2013-03-23T23:10:47  * Laurenceb_ tries to work out what photo is what over ssh
2013-03-23T23:10:52 < zyp> Tectu, what do you expect when measuring a bunch of semiconductors?
2013-03-23T23:11:08 < Posterdati> zyp: almost 600 kOhm in my case :)
2013-03-23T23:11:08 < BrainDamage> faprenceb: use sftp
2013-03-23T23:11:09 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, use proper file names
2013-03-23T23:11:09 < Laurenceb_> found it
2013-03-23T23:11:12 < Laurenceb_> lol
2013-03-23T23:11:13 < Laurenceb_> http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=251410
2013-03-23T23:11:14 < Laurenceb_> there
2013-03-23T23:11:19 < BrainDamage> so you can browse them in a file manager
2013-03-23T23:11:31 < zyp> Posterdati, and how is that measured? :p
2013-03-23T23:11:43 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, and that shit is?
2013-03-23T23:11:49 < BrainDamage> is that a cell phone socket?
2013-03-23T23:11:56 < Laurenceb_> sensors... :P
2013-03-23T23:11:57 < Posterdati> zyp from 3.3V to GND and reverse
2013-03-23T23:12:01 < Laurenceb_> BrainDamage: yes
2013-03-23T23:12:16 < zyp> Posterdati, or to ask a related question, what do you expect the resistance of a diode to be?
2013-03-23T23:12:23 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, why o you need a flex boad there?
2013-03-23T23:12:33 < Laurenceb_> its glued onto the skin
2013-03-23T23:12:36 < BrainDamage> because the sensor will be laid against the skin
2013-03-23T23:12:40 < Laurenceb_> yup
2013-03-23T23:13:00 < Tectu> you and your pathetic medicinal fetish
2013-03-23T23:13:06 < Laurenceb_> lolz
2013-03-23T23:13:11 < Posterdati> zyp: you can measure from 3.3V to GND and you will be sure not to have ashort circuit
2013-03-23T23:13:20 < BrainDamage> iirc he has a light gas that'll diffuse trough your skin
2013-03-23T23:13:35 < BrainDamage> and he'll monitor the process by monitor spectral absorption
2013-03-23T23:13:39 < Posterdati> zyp: diode hasn't got a linear resistance
2013-03-23T23:14:00 < Posterdati> but there aren't diodes directly polarized
2013-03-23T23:14:01 < BrainDamage> probably He or H2
2013-03-23T23:14:14 < Laurenceb_> wrong
2013-03-23T23:14:16 < zyp> Posterdati, exactly
2013-03-23T23:14:24 < BrainDamage> but knowing him, it'd be either benzene, or sarin
2013-03-23T23:14:27 < zyp> Posterdati, you are measuring stuff without a linear resistance
2013-03-23T23:14:33 < Laurenceb_> BrainDamage: it just uses compressed air
2013-03-23T23:14:33 < Laurenceb_> lolz
2013-03-23T23:14:34 < Tectu> lol
2013-03-23T23:14:45 < Laurenceb_> to change the applied pressure
2013-03-23T23:14:55 < Posterdati> zyp: yes and I expected to not have < kOhm overall impedance
2013-03-23T23:15:08 < Posterdati> to the regulator output pins
2013-03-23T23:15:35 < Posterdati> anyway, removing the cpu removed the problem
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2013-03-23T23:15:48 < Laurenceb_> so yes, I paid 600euros for those boards O_o
2013-03-23T23:15:49 < Posterdati> maybe the bakeout broke it
2013-03-23T23:15:50 < Tectu> MCU != CPU
2013-03-23T23:16:00 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, soldered or just the boards?
2013-03-23T23:16:11 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, also, I guess your boss paid them, no?
2013-03-23T23:16:21 < Laurenceb_> just boards, and yes, i wasnt paying
2013-03-23T23:16:29 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, so 600 for 50 of em??
2013-03-23T23:16:34 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-23T23:16:42 < Laurenceb_> no, 100
2013-03-23T23:16:53 < BrainDamage> 6 each is not too terrible
2013-03-23T23:16:59 < Tectu> jep
2013-03-23T23:17:09 < BrainDamage> medical devices cost shitload of money anyay :p
2013-03-23T23:17:12 < Laurenceb_> laser cut with Nd:YAG laser and they had silicone adhesive on the back
2013-03-23T23:17:41 < Laurenceb_> i think they quotes something like 1K euros for about 500
2013-03-23T23:17:58 < Laurenceb_> unit cost goes down massively as you order more
2013-03-23T23:18:09 < Laurenceb_> but this doesnt help for ~5units
2013-03-23T23:18:38 < Laurenceb_> what does help is that you can have 5 very complex boards for not much more than the MOQ
2013-03-23T23:19:00 < Tectu> MOQ?  Monthly Oreo Quantity?
2013-03-23T23:19:04 < Laurenceb_> lol
2013-03-23T23:19:18 < Tectu> damn, I forgot to bring oreos to my gf's place
2013-03-23T23:19:29 < Laurenceb_> lol imaginary gf
2013-03-23T23:19:37 < gxti> Tectu: quota*
2013-03-23T23:20:29 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, stfu
2013-03-23T23:20:35 < Laurenceb_> teeheee
2013-03-23T23:20:35 < Tectu> no seriously, what's MOQ in PCB?
2013-03-23T23:20:50 < Laurenceb_> minimum order quantity
2013-03-23T23:21:04 < Tectu> so no oreos then :)
2013-03-23T23:21:07 < Laurenceb_> or total order price in the case of what i was talking about
2013-03-23T23:21:10 < Posterdati> Tectu: I wonder if the bakeout broke it or the oven :)
2013-03-23T23:21:57 < Tectu> Posterdati, I've no Idea but I never heard anyone breaking a part when doing as the RM says
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2013-03-23T23:23:23 < Laurenceb_> im guessing a short somewhere under the ic
2013-03-23T23:23:32 < Tectu> Laurenceb, with 12Ohms?
2013-03-23T23:23:40 < Tectu> nice shortting job.
2013-03-23T23:25:36 < Posterdati> Tectu: which rm do you use?
2013-03-23T23:25:52 < Posterdati> Tectu: RM0008?
2013-03-23T23:25:56 < Tectu> o.O
2013-03-23T23:26:00 < Laurenceb_> i thought it was 12ohm
2013-03-23T23:26:07 < Tectu> there's only one RM for each STM32 family
2013-03-23T23:26:10 < Tectu> Laurenceb, yes it is?
2013-03-23T23:26:42 < Posterdati> Laurenceb: it is very strange, I checked the pinout and the footprint and they are correct
2013-03-23T23:27:04 < Posterdati> Tectu: I did not find soldering info on that RM
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2013-03-23T23:27:27 < Tectu> Posterdati, yeah, told you, I don't know exactly where, it might be the datasheet which cointains the soldering infos
2013-03-23T23:27:31 < Tectu> ask jpa-
2013-03-23T23:27:41 < Tectu> or just look up yourself
2013-03-23T23:28:42 < Tectu> there must be something somewhere
2013-03-23T23:29:12 < gxti> what dimwitted assclown decided that when putting CAN and USART as alt functions on the same two pins, that TX and RX should be opposite between them
2013-03-23T23:29:43 < Tectu> gxti, lol what
2013-03-23T23:29:49 < Tectu> Posterdati, here's some soldering and MSI stuff   http://www.st.com/web/en/support/leadfree_faq.html
2013-03-23T23:29:57 < Posterdati> Tectu: tx
2013-03-23T23:30:15 < gxti> F373; PB8 is CAN_RX and USART3_TX, PB9 is CAN_TX and USART3_RX
2013-03-23T23:30:26 < Posterdati> Tectu: I followed a sheet came with the chip vendor (digikey)
2013-03-23T23:30:55 < Tectu> Posterdati, then you shouldn't have breaked it :D
2013-03-23T23:31:06 < Tectu> break it? broke it?
2013-03-23T23:31:15 < Posterdati> yes
2013-03-23T23:31:17 < Posterdati> broke
2013-03-23T23:31:22 < Tectu> gxti, sounds like a well done job
2013-03-23T23:36:44 < zyp> gxti, I think someone mentioned that F3 uart could swap tx and rx
2013-03-23T23:37:28 < Robint91> Steffanx, some LCDs and white leds pcbs
2013-03-23T23:38:07 < Posterdati> Tectu: AN2639
2013-03-23T23:40:11 < gxti> zyp: that does seem to the case. rage reduced by 60%.
2013-03-23T23:40:28 < gxti> it's still asinine though
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2013-03-23T23:41:38 < gxti> i'm hoping to use the same 2/3 pins through an isolator to do uart or rs485 or can, at least with that swap it should be possible again
2013-03-23T23:41:50 < zyp> ah, SWAP bit in CR2
2013-03-23T23:42:44 < zyp> that's a nice trick then
2013-03-23T23:45:23 < Tectu> Posterdati, perfect, will keep that one for the future, thanks
2013-03-23T23:45:55 < Posterdati> Tectu: according that AN I didn't break it
2013-03-23T23:46:10 < Tectu> Posterdati, jep
2013-03-23T23:46:32 < Posterdati> Tectu: but it become hot when I feed the board
2013-03-23T23:47:02 < Posterdati> Tectu: 1.1 A from +5V side :( regulator is almost gone :)
2013-03-23T23:49:01 < Tectu> Posterdati, did you solder it in the right orientation?
2013-03-23T23:49:08 < Posterdati> Tectu: obviously yes
2013-03-23T23:49:16 < Tectu> hmm
2013-03-23T23:49:25 < Tectu> well, can you replace it?
2013-03-23T23:49:26 < Posterdati> only a doubt
2013-03-23T23:49:42 < Posterdati> I connected VBAT pin to 3.3 V
2013-03-23T23:49:45 < Tectu> Posterdati, what I always do is solder such components the last... I first check if the 3.3V etc. is there so no issues
2013-03-23T23:49:55 < Tectu> Posterdati, that's absolutely okay, I do the same
2013-03-23T23:50:21 < Posterdati> VSSA to 3.3V via a inductor
2013-03-23T23:50:40 < Posterdati> VDDA to GND
2013-03-23T23:50:54 < Posterdati> VREF+ to 3.3V via a 22 Ohm resistor
2013-03-23T23:51:03 < Posterdati> VREF- to GND
2013-03-23T23:51:40 < gxti> VDDA to ground? i hope that's a typo, not a design-o
2013-03-23T23:51:50 < Posterdati> oh my
2013-03-23T23:52:08 < Posterdati> VDDA should be at 3.3V not ground!!!
2013-03-23T23:52:49 < Tectu> indeed.
2013-03-23T23:52:55 < Posterdati> argh
2013-03-23T23:52:59 < Tectu> :)
2013-03-23T23:53:00 < Posterdati> that's the problem
2013-03-23T23:53:06 < Posterdati> a typo copying
2013-03-23T23:53:14 < Posterdati> I checked several time :(
2013-03-23T23:53:25 < Tectu> well, never trust the internet
2013-03-23T23:54:27 < Tectu> especially never trust Laurenceb_
2013-03-23T23:54:45 < gxti> this kills the F407
2013-03-23T23:56:24 < Tectu> gxti, but not an F107 or what?
--- Day changed Sun Mar 24 2013
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2013-03-24T00:01:47 < gxti> reverse voltage tends to kill everything.
2013-03-24T00:02:44 < Tectu> indeed, that's why I'm curious that you explicit mentioned the F407
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2013-03-24T00:03:19 < gxti> because i mistakenly remembered that he was using f407
2013-03-24T00:03:24 < gxti> but is in fact using f107
2013-03-24T00:03:35 < gxti> just a stupid meme, disregard
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2013-03-24T00:05:00 < gxti> does DAC just take over a pin when enabled? since it doesn't seem to be an alt func
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2013-03-24T00:05:46 < GargantuaSauce> GPIO_Mode_AN
2013-03-24T00:06:30 < gxti> changing pin mode doesn't affect routing though
2013-03-24T00:07:46 < gxti> it seems probable that it's automatic, just being paranoid
2013-03-24T00:08:16 < GargantuaSauce> set the pin to that and set the enable bits in dac->cr and it works
2013-03-24T00:08:46 < gxti> perfect thanks
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2013-03-24T00:15:35 <+Steffanx> "Want to have but dont really need it" stuff Robint91 :)
2013-03-24T00:15:51 < Robint91> Steffanx, yeah
2013-03-24T00:16:15 < Robint91> Steffanx, also these
2013-03-24T00:16:16 < Robint91> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAEHqJesHs8
2013-03-24T00:16:31 <+Steffanx> yay
2013-03-24T00:16:42 < Robint91> Steffanx, for a clock
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2013-03-24T00:17:55 <+Steffann> oh, ok
2013-03-24T00:18:31 <+Steffann> ill see the result on CO? :P
2013-03-24T00:18:44 < Robint91> Steffann, yeah
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2013-03-24T00:25:16 < Posterdati> tx people
2013-03-24T00:25:37 < Posterdati> I have to cut some traces and use small wires to fix :)
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2013-03-24T00:32:35 < Laurenceb_> does it work?
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2013-03-24T01:36:47 < Posterdati> Laurenceb: I will do that tomorrow! Stay tuned!
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2013-03-24T01:51:46 < upgrdman> dongs: remember that wtf pcb i posted last night with the giant smd jumpers? here's what it looks like assembled: http://farrellf.com/temp/assembled_pcb.jpg
2013-03-24T01:53:27 <+Steffann> The module on the right looks worse than anything else on the board :)
2013-03-24T01:54:51 < gxti> it also looks better than the geda screenshot
2013-03-24T01:55:10 <+Steffann> nice servo tester upgrdman
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2013-03-24T01:58:30 < upgrdman> Steffann: thanks. that was my first "real" project
2013-03-24T01:58:42 < upgrdman> and i still use it on a daily basis at work.
2013-03-24T01:58:44 < upgrdman> :)
2013-03-24T01:59:00 <+Steffann> you also made the case?
2013-03-24T01:59:06 < upgrdman> yes
2013-03-24T01:59:16 < upgrdman> well it bought it, then dremels the fuck out of it
2013-03-24T01:59:21 < upgrdman> dremeled
2013-03-24T02:00:08 < upgrdman> and those pushbuttons are mounted to pcbs that are mounted with... a ginormous mound of hot melt glue. i should open it up for the lulz and post photos
2013-03-24T02:00:39 < upgrdman> i used a pizza napkin as an electrical insulator between the lcd deadbug stuff and the f4discov pcb
2013-03-24T02:00:44 < upgrdman> :o)
2013-03-24T02:02:20 <+Steffann> YAY
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2013-03-24T02:03:52 <+Steffann> From just the video it looks pretty nice, so you can be proud upgrdman :)
2013-03-24T02:04:08 < upgrdman> :) thanks
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2013-03-24T02:07:57 < gxti> liveblogging http://partiallystapled.com/~gxti/circuits/2013/03/23-inprogress1.png
2013-03-24T02:09:11 < qyx> whats that
2013-03-24T02:09:15 <+Steffann> Not live enough.. share your screen gxti
2013-03-24T02:09:27 < gxti> you get one guess
2013-03-24T02:10:11 <+Steffann> He is something that makes electrons smarter :S
2013-03-24T02:10:20 <+Steffann> *is making
2013-03-24T02:10:32 < GargantuaSauce> oh shit, i need me one of these
2013-03-24T02:10:39 < GargantuaSauce> i've been suffering hard from electron stupidity
2013-03-24T02:10:57 < qyx> ah, smart psu?
2013-03-24T02:11:13 < gxti> not too smart, just a little bit. but yes.
2013-03-24T02:13:03 <+Steffann> For what use gxti ?
2013-03-24T02:13:41 < gxti> programmable bench supply, basically
2013-03-24T02:13:45 <+Steffann> Ah, oko
2013-03-24T02:14:12 < gxti> 6A, 5V although it could be 12V if the caps are swapped out. trying to reuse some crap from previous projects.
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2013-03-24T02:30:34 < timemob> http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1293080 attn laurenceb
2013-03-24T02:31:20 < timemob> Next time don't use something huge like iPad
2013-03-24T02:33:58 < gxti> thrilling news.
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2013-03-24T02:46:21 < upgrdman> lol
2013-03-24T02:55:23 < dongs> upgrdman: nutty
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2013-03-24T02:55:33 < upgrdman> :)
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2013-03-24T04:08:15 < upgrdman> the f0discov and f4discov require opening a solder bridge if the built-in stlink will be used to program an external mcu AND have control over the external mcu reset pin. is there any time when the stlink would NOT need to have direct control over the reset pin of the mcu being programmed?
2013-03-24T04:08:42 < upgrdman> seems weird they would make that a solder bridge and not a jumper :(
2013-03-24T04:09:34 < gxti> you generally don't need the reset line.
2013-03-24T04:09:56 < upgrdman> wtf? why not? how else would you prepare the mcu?
2013-03-24T04:10:06 < gxti> it's only needed when the target disables swd or locks flash or is sleeping
2013-03-24T04:10:21 < upgrdman> oh
2013-03-24T04:10:37 < gxti> a running target with swd pins enabled can be talked to without reset
2013-03-24T04:11:20 < upgrdman> i wonder if a factory fresh f0 enters one of those states... cause i cant program my pcb and get a reset error from openocd in linux or official stlink in windows
2013-03-24T04:11:39 < gxti> no, blank parts are fine
2013-03-24T04:11:54 < upgrdman> shit. :( maybe i have some other problem.
2013-03-24T04:12:10 < upgrdman> will i'll try opening the solder bridge and see if anything changes
2013-03-24T04:20:59 < zippe> Bah, F427 flash erase is killing my bootloader
2013-03-24T04:21:24 < dongs> maybe you should use opensores virus tricks
2013-03-24T04:21:35 < dongs> and rewrite option bytes on each boot
2013-03-24T04:21:44 < dongs> protecting bl flash pages
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2013-03-24T04:30:52 < gxti> "this mcu just got pwned by richard stallman's smelly toes"
2013-03-24T04:41:29 < GargantuaSauce> i've always wanted an edible micro
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2013-03-24T13:30:52 < jpa-> hmph, i'm running out of pins  http://koti.kapsi.fi/jpa/stuff/pix/uunimittari_rx.svg
2013-03-24T13:33:58 < zyp>  is the pin you are hooking vbus to 5V tolerant?
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2013-03-24T13:35:27 < jpa-> zyp: yes
2013-03-24T13:35:49 < jpa-> and the +3.3V will never turn off :P
2013-03-24T13:36:10 < zyp> good
2013-03-24T13:36:11 < zyp> :p
2013-03-24T13:37:02 < zyp> what's the purpose?
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2013-03-24T13:38:27 < jpa-> zyp: mainly to try if i can interface an eink display
2013-03-24T13:39:20 < zyp> I just don't see any other source of data from the display than usb, no extra storage
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2013-03-24T13:39:30 < zyp> so is it mainly going to be used hooked to usb?
2013-03-24T13:41:19 < jpa-> no, the real functionality is what i should cram into the few remaining pins :D
2013-03-24T13:41:40 < jpa-> but it will be reception from RF module, to show some temperature graphs etc. data
2013-03-24T13:41:50 < zyp> ah, fun
2013-03-24T13:42:32 < jpa-> if it all works out, this thingy here transmits temperature to that thingy there  http://koti.kapsi.fi/jpa/stuff/pix/um_pcb_soldered.jpg
2013-03-24T13:43:04 < jpa-> but there is quite a bit of guesswork involved in the eink stuff
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2013-03-24T14:49:21 <+Steffanx> jpa- i was looking for something on the web. wtf is this? http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/foo ?!
2013-03-24T14:49:32 <+Steffanx> Why every sentence has 'awesome' in it?!
2013-03-24T14:50:17 <+Steffanx> Did we really have that conversation?
2013-03-24T14:50:30 <+Steffanx> no ::P
2013-03-24T14:51:25 <+Steffanx> oh, nevermind i guess
2013-03-24T14:51:48 <+Steffanx> You grepped for awesome.. fail
2013-03-24T14:53:24 < jpa-> yeah :D
2013-03-24T14:55:58 < zyp> no, it's grepped for random then substituted that with awesome, from what I read
2013-03-24T14:56:08 < jpa-> ah, yeah :)
2013-03-24T14:56:16 < jpa-> no idea why :D
2013-03-24T14:56:51 < jpa-> 2012-09-24T20:03:08 < karlp> s/awesome/awesome/g   i guess this might be the reason
2013-03-24T15:02:07 <+Steffanx> ok...
2013-03-24T15:02:58 < qyx> i was curious what pseudo-awesome means, now it makes sense a bit
2013-03-24T15:10:59 <+Steffanx> :D
2013-03-24T15:12:55 < zyp> Steffanx is pseudo-awesome
2013-03-24T15:13:51 <+Steffanx> Go back to your awesome numbers zyp
2013-03-24T15:29:18 < Tectu> LOL @ jpa / Steffanx link
2013-03-24T15:29:57 < Tectu> I mean awesome-LOL of course
2013-03-24T15:30:32 < Tectu> 2012-07.log:2012-07-11T16:00:48 < Tectu> am i the only one who thinks that the awesome number generator of the f4 is awesome?
2013-03-24T15:30:36 < Tectu> also this.
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2013-03-24T15:37:38 < gxti> is it actually awesome?
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2013-03-24T16:05:56 < gxti> i have a funny feeling that i2c isolators don't work when you have more than one on a bus, or better yet work erratically.
2013-03-24T16:10:55 < t1memob> They do
2013-03-24T16:11:06 < t1memob> The ltc ones?
2013-03-24T16:11:16 < gxti> never mind i figured it out, they're asymmetrical
2013-03-24T16:11:59 < gxti> the side with the comparator has to be a small bus with no other isolators, which is fine
2013-03-24T16:12:17 <+Steffanx> dongs is here 3 times now?
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2013-03-24T16:18:46 < Tectu> dongseption
2013-03-24T16:19:12 <+Steffanx> awesom
2013-03-24T16:19:14 <+Steffanx> e
2013-03-24T16:19:50 < flop> anyone doing embedded linux here?
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2013-03-24T16:21:13 <+dekar> flop, on stm32?
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2013-03-24T16:37:31 < flop> no, on mmu arm in general
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2013-03-24T16:40:12 < dongs_> sup dongs
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2013-03-24T16:41:13 < flop> shouldn't it be sux instead?
2013-03-24T16:41:20 < dongs> no.
2013-03-24T16:41:41 < baird> Little dongs should be in bed.
2013-03-24T16:41:50 < dongs> indeed
2013-03-24T16:41:51 < flop> then not very interesting dongs
2013-03-24T16:41:58 < dongs> i need to jewtube this live i bootleged tho
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2013-03-24T16:53:20 < Tectu> does anyone here have KiCAD libraries for an STM32F407 or F103?
2013-03-24T16:53:44 < flop> easy to make
2013-03-24T16:53:50 < Tectu> flop, are you using KiCAD?
2013-03-24T16:53:55 < flop> yes
2013-03-24T16:53:57 < Tectu> flop, I never used it. I'm thinking to switch
2013-03-24T16:54:03 < Tectu> I used Eagle, OrCAD and P-CAD before
2013-03-24T16:54:07 < flop> but I have it in 10 parts part
2013-03-24T16:54:17 < Tectu> but all of them are too expensive for home use
2013-03-24T16:54:21 < Tectu> can you recommend KiCAD?
2013-03-24T16:54:31 < Tectu> 85% of people I'm asking say it sucks hardly
2013-03-24T16:54:34 < Tectu> compared to eagle
2013-03-24T16:54:36 < flop> why do you think I'm using it then?
2013-03-24T16:54:55 < Tectu> monies?
2013-03-24T16:55:10 < flop> one reason
2013-03-24T16:55:33 < flop> also because it's nice
2013-03-24T16:55:58 < BJFreeman> the limited edition of eagle is free
2013-03-24T16:56:05 < Tectu> but there are no libs, right?
2013-03-24T16:56:11 < Tectu> flop, I mean for 99% of the stuff you need
2013-03-24T16:56:20 < Tectu> BJFreeman, yeah, but I need more than 80x100
2013-03-24T16:56:23 < flop> but limited to 2 laters which sux and 10x10cm
2013-03-24T16:56:27 < flop> layers
2013-03-24T16:56:46 < Tectu> that too
2013-03-24T16:57:01 < Tectu> it's 80 by 100, not 100 by 100
2013-03-24T16:57:03 < flop> Tectu: are you that lazy not to create your own parts?
2013-03-24T16:57:22 < Tectu> flop, that's one reason
2013-03-24T16:57:31 < Tectu> for another, I'm not sure how long it takes
2013-03-24T16:58:00 < flop> Tectu: then you should forget about free stuff as well and buy commercial products where most of the things are done for you
2013-03-24T16:58:40 < Tectu> would do if we'd be in a < 500€ range
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2013-03-24T17:00:23 < BJFreeman> then get the developers version of eagle for $186 the reason I use eagle is all th open stuff supplies in eagle and you can copy paste parts from one project to  another
2013-03-24T17:01:34 < flop> parts building in eagle sux though
2013-03-24T17:02:14 < Tectu> BJFreeman, 186€ no problem, but you're still too limited with 100x160 for my feelings
2013-03-24T17:03:14 < Tectu> flop, does KiCAD feature an auto router, btw?
2013-03-24T17:03:35 < BJFreeman> 100 pin tales about 2- 4 hours for a begginer
2013-03-24T17:04:02 < dongs> just use dicktrace, it fucking owns eagle + any opensores trash out there
2013-03-24T17:04:07 < dongs> bbl bed
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2013-03-24T17:05:03 < Tectu> dongs, wait
2013-03-24T17:05:07 < Tectu> dongs, do you use dicktrace?
2013-03-24T17:05:13 < Tectu> dongs, is it work the monies?
2013-03-24T17:05:21 < Tectu> I'm a bit afraid of the electric nodes limitation
2013-03-24T17:07:51 < BJFreeman> I have some very complicated circuits 3.1 cm square  to 7cn sq
2013-03-24T17:08:03 < gxti> i wouldn't use other people's footprints even if i could
2013-03-24T17:08:18 < Tectu> gxti, too afraid of it?
2013-03-24T17:08:21 < gxti> so open hardware "libraries" are a nonfeature
2013-03-24T17:08:39 < Tectu> well, it's a days-until-market issue
2013-03-24T17:09:07 < gxti> it probably takes longer to find a footprint someone else made than to just do it, at least in software other than eagle
2013-03-24T17:09:23 < jpa-> not really
2013-03-24T17:09:37 < gxti> maybe i'm just good at it.
2013-03-24T17:09:40 < jpa-> it does take a bit of time to verify the footprints, but atleast i have to verify my own footprints also
2013-03-24T17:09:58 < gxti> you always have to verify
2013-03-24T17:10:02 < jpa-> gxti: it usually takes me about 30 seconds to find a footprint or component symbol on google
2013-03-24T17:10:05 < gxti> that's not a time savings :p
2013-03-24T17:10:16 < jpa-> indeed
2013-03-24T17:10:32 < BJFreeman> most of the foot prints i use, I have the device it self to verify
2013-03-24T17:14:48 < emeb_mac> Tectu: I just did a project w/ Diptrace. Worked nicely and has good libs included.
2013-03-24T17:15:11 < Tectu> emeb_mac, did you buy a license for home use?
2013-03-24T17:15:16 < Tectu> emeb_mac, or some company stuff?
2013-03-24T17:15:31 < emeb_mac> Tectu: I was trying it out with the 30-day free trial.
2013-03-24T17:15:41 < emeb_mac> gives full functionality for 1mo
2013-03-24T17:15:45 < Tectu> cool
2013-03-24T17:16:19 < emeb_mac> I'm considering buying the 1st-level commercial license
2013-03-24T17:16:31 < BJFreeman> then there is Geda
2013-03-24T17:16:32 < emeb_mac> (4 signal layers, unlimited planes, 1000 pins)
2013-03-24T17:17:18 < zyp> pins?
2013-03-24T17:17:39 < zyp> i.e. pads?
2013-03-24T17:17:42 < Tectu> emeb_mac, yeah, my problem are the 1000 pins limitation
2013-03-24T17:17:43 < emeb_mac> zyp: yeah - diptrace limits the number of pins you can instantiate on a design
2013-03-24T17:17:45 < Tectu> zyp, yeah
2013-03-24T17:17:58 < zyp> 1000 doesn't seem like much
2013-03-24T17:17:58 < Tectu> I'm very afraid by the pins limitation...
2013-03-24T17:18:02 < emeb_mac> vs eagle which limits the area
2013-03-24T17:18:11 < Tectu> zyp, and for 1'000 you pay 300€
2013-03-24T17:18:19 < BJFreeman> yeah checking netlist is a head ache
2013-03-24T17:18:32 < Tectu> emeb_mac, please take an FPGA, some 500 pin BGA package and tell me if you need 1000 pins or 1000x1000 m²
2013-03-24T17:18:54 < emeb_mac> Tectu: no argument there
2013-03-24T17:19:17 < zyp> well, number of pads is probably a better measure of complexity than area
2013-03-24T17:19:19 < Tectu> emeb_mac, let's count the amount of pins on an F4 discovery
2013-03-24T17:19:26 < Tectu> zyp, that's true again
2013-03-24T17:19:29 < gxti> let's not :p
2013-03-24T17:19:30 < emeb_mac> the design I did is a fairly simple STM32F4 w/ audio and it came out just over 300 pins.
2013-03-24T17:19:40 < Tectu> ;)
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2013-03-24T17:21:01 < gxti> the full version is "only" $895, and you can ugprade for just the cost difference as well
2013-03-24T17:21:07 < emeb_mac> yep
2013-03-24T17:21:07 < gxti> seems reasonable
2013-03-24T17:21:29 < emeb_mac> so if you hit the wall it's not too painful to get around it.
2013-03-24T17:21:43 < gxti> i would actually pay that, whereas i would probably not pay the $5000+ for altium
2013-03-24T17:22:03 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-24T17:22:15 < emeb_mac> Diptrace does have some warts though - nothing major, just stuff that makes you wonder.
2013-03-24T17:22:23 < zyp> my lpc board is 464 pads
2013-03-24T17:22:54 < emeb_mac> like importing pictures (for logos on silk) works, but doesn't display properly. You have to output gerbers and view externally.
2013-03-24T17:22:54 < gxti> problem is i can't be bothered to actually start a project in diptrace
2013-03-24T17:23:08 < Tectu> gxti, well, then 25% for every new release
2013-03-24T17:23:08 < flop> you can easily make a footprint under 5 mins in kicad
2013-03-24T17:23:22 < Tectu> flop, with having a real life?
2013-03-24T17:23:30 < flop> what?
2013-03-24T17:23:32 < gxti> ...
2013-03-24T17:23:36 < gxti> Tectu: you're not being helpful
2013-03-24T17:23:45 < Tectu> :o
2013-03-24T17:23:56 < emeb_mac> footprints in Diptrace are a lot more easily built than with gEDA/PCB
2013-03-24T17:24:10 < flop> in kicad it's very easy
2013-03-24T17:24:16 < Tectu> flop, sure?
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2013-03-24T17:24:22 < emeb_mac> kicad isn't too bad - I've used it too.
2013-03-24T17:24:38 < emeb_mac> but the UI menus take some getting used to.
2013-03-24T17:24:48 < flop> choose the pins, put names and number, place on sheet, save, voila
2013-03-24T17:25:08 < gxti> that's not a footprint flop, that's a schematic symbol
2013-03-24T17:25:43 < Tectu> ^
2013-03-24T17:25:54 < Tectu> yeah, listen to that man!
2013-03-24T17:26:24 < emeb_mac> kicad and diptrace footprint edit process is similar. all UI-based
2013-03-24T17:26:35 < zyp> my F4-board was 390 pads
2013-03-24T17:26:40 < gxti> "UI-based" is pretty broad :P
2013-03-24T17:26:41 < Tectu> zyp, lol what?
2013-03-24T17:26:50 < flop> ok, similar for footprint, get user grid to your custom measurement, choose pad, set number, type and dimensions, place, save, voila
2013-03-24T17:26:51 < gxti> about all that excludes is geda, because geda is horrible
2013-03-24T17:26:53 < zyp> so that 1000-pad limit doesn't seem to be too bad
2013-03-24T17:27:04 < Tectu> zyp, you didn't, did you?
2013-03-24T17:27:12 < zyp> Tectu, huh?
2013-03-24T17:27:15 < emeb_mac> diptrace and kicad copper pours look very similar - same sorts of rounded corners & thermals.
2013-03-24T17:27:25 < emeb_mac> makes me wonder if there's common code there...
2013-03-24T17:27:25 < Tectu> zyp, did you really count them?
2013-03-24T17:27:28 < zyp> yes
2013-03-24T17:27:34 < Tectu> thank you.
2013-03-24T17:28:09 < gxti> emeb_mac: don't you think it's more plausible that there is simply only a few ways to do pours? :p
2013-03-24T17:28:33 < emeb_mac> gxti: could be. gEDA/PCB pours look very different though.
2013-03-24T17:28:37 < jpa-> hmph, i wish there was some kind of "long mini-usb B" so i could get make the box edge a bit thicker
2013-03-24T17:28:44 < gxti> again, geda is horrible and was written by orcs
2013-03-24T17:28:49 < emeb_mac> (not as well done either - one of my big beefs)
2013-03-24T17:29:00 < gxti> everything else will look quite similar when compared to geda
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2013-03-24T17:29:02 < Tectu> zyp, well, when the F4 does have 390 pads, 1000 really doesn't seem that horrible. And 300.- isn't that much as well
2013-03-24T17:29:08 < Phantomix> hello
2013-03-24T17:29:10 < emeb_mac> gxti: lols
2013-03-24T17:29:13 < emeb_mac> orcs
2013-03-24T17:29:18 < flop> tectu, you can usually get a design done in a few days in kicad, from drawing schematics to layout, for a moderately complex design
2013-03-24T17:29:20 < gxti> trolls seemed too trite
2013-03-24T17:29:34 < zyp> Tectu, sorry, you misread me
2013-03-24T17:29:42 < emeb_mac> PCB is based on code written for the Atari ST decades ago.
2013-03-24T17:29:42 < zyp> I said _my_ F4-board
2013-03-24T17:29:45 < zyp> not the discovery
2013-03-24T17:29:48 < Tectu> zyp,
2013-03-24T17:29:48 < Tectu> <Tectu> zyp, did you really count them?
2013-03-24T17:29:48 < Tectu> <zyp> yes
2013-03-24T17:29:54 < zyp> i.e. http://bin.jvnv.net/f/QW7ZG.png
2013-03-24T17:29:57 < Tectu> zyp, aaah!
2013-03-24T17:30:05 < Tectu> sorry there
2013-03-24T17:30:09 < zyp> I mostly care about the designs I do :p
2013-03-24T17:30:20 < Tectu> ;)
2013-03-24T17:30:47 < Tectu> zyp, what software did you use there?
2013-03-24T17:30:51 < zyp> eagle
2013-03-24T17:31:10 < emeb_mac> I've been burned by the PCB copper pour before - it can violate min linewidth rules/
2013-03-24T17:31:24 < flop> eagle is less efficient in creating parts
2013-03-24T17:31:40 < emeb_mac> that created copper whiskers on one board that got loose and shorted other traces under the mask.
2013-03-24T17:31:48 < Tectu> zyp, what's U5? (at the top)
2013-03-24T17:31:59 < zyp> gps
2013-03-24T17:32:24 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/sTW8U.JPG
2013-03-24T17:32:27 < flop> emeb_mac: in which cad was it?
2013-03-24T17:32:37 < Tectu> zyp, I've seen that one before :)
2013-03-24T17:32:46 < emeb_mac> flop: that was with gEDA/PCB
2013-03-24T17:33:02 < Tectu> zyp, quite a «discovery» you got there
2013-03-24T17:33:33 < emeb_mac> gxti: you have some experience with switching regulators, no?
2013-03-24T17:33:44 < zyp> Tectu, I have lots of discoveries :p
2013-03-24T17:33:53 < Tectu> ;)
2013-03-24T17:34:03 < gxti> emeb_mac: experience copying from datasheets yes
2013-03-24T17:34:09 < emeb_mac> gxti: heh
2013-03-24T17:34:11 < gxti> hardly an expert though
2013-03-24T17:34:22 < Tectu> emeb_mac, I got some "experiences" there as well
2013-03-24T17:34:27 < Tectu> mostly how not to do it ;)
2013-03-24T17:34:30 < emeb_mac> looking for a good buck regulator to go from +12V to +3.3V
2013-03-24T17:34:45 < Tectu> ah, not layout related then...
2013-03-24T17:34:56 < Tectu> A friend of mine at work just made a   240VAC to 3.3VDC converter...
2013-03-24T17:34:56 < gxti> if you have the space, i highly recommend murata's OKI-78SR modules
2013-03-24T17:35:19 < flop> zyp: what's that design for?
2013-03-24T17:35:40 < emeb_mac> gxti: that looks OK
2013-03-24T17:35:46 < Tectu> flop, quad I guess
2013-03-24T17:35:50 < emeb_mac> handles a lot more current than I need tho
2013-03-24T17:35:57 < emeb_mac> I only need ~100ma
2013-03-24T17:36:08 < Tectu> emeb_mac, traco power makes a few nice modules as well
2013-03-24T17:36:10 < Tectu> quite small too
2013-03-24T17:36:11 < zyp> flop, quadrotor controller
2013-03-24T17:37:38 < emeb_mac> Tectu: thx - looking.
2013-03-24T17:37:39 < gxti> or this, the only full module that's cheaper on digikey: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/R-78E3.3-0.5/945-1661-5-ND/3593412
2013-03-24T17:37:54 < gxti> i don't really have any recommendations on discrete stuff though
2013-03-24T17:38:13 < gxti> it's pretty straightforward but finding the right IC is difficult
2013-03-24T17:38:14 < Tectu> emeb_mac, one question.... when you need 12V to 3.3V at 100mA, why not using some LF33 ?
2013-03-24T17:38:45 < flop> zyp: what's the golden rectabgle?
2013-03-24T17:38:51 < flop> ractangle
2013-03-24T17:38:53 < emeb_mac> Tectu: I could answer that if I knew what LF33 was. :)
2013-03-24T17:39:06 < Tectu> emeb_mac, some linear voltage LDO from ST
2013-03-24T17:39:06 < zyp> flop, you mean the gps antenna?
2013-03-24T17:39:12 < flop> ah
2013-03-24T17:39:17 < Tectu> emeb_mac, https://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sos.sk%2Fa_info%2Fresource%2Fc%2Fpdf%2FLF33.pdf&ei=Gx5PUfuNEY6y7AaOoIH4CA&usg=AFQjCNHN9RKikSAfbqJbzWhjWuADXMuN7w&sig2=vAsynLaVUaDuyctJRdegBQ&bvm=bv.44158598,d.ZGU
2013-03-24T17:39:19 < emeb_mac> Tectu: I'm using an LDO now
2013-03-24T17:39:25 < Tectu> emeb_mac, why you need a switching then?
2013-03-24T17:39:29 < emeb_mac> TLV1117-3.3
2013-03-24T17:39:35 < Tectu> I mean  0.9W is not a lot there
2013-03-24T17:39:35 < gxti> 0.9W dissipation, not terrible but lots of room for improvement
2013-03-24T17:39:42 < Tectu> ah, I see
2013-03-24T17:39:54 < emeb_mac> Tectu: because I want to reduce the current draw from the +12V line.
2013-03-24T17:40:20 < emeb_mac> with a good switcher that 100ma becomes more like 30ma.
2013-03-24T17:40:26 < Tectu> indeed
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2013-03-24T17:40:44 < flop> zyp: what bus/communication protocol you used to connect uC to fpga?
2013-03-24T17:41:09 < Tectu> emeb_mac, things like these... damn expensive but damn efficient too   http://uk.farnell.com/tracopower/tsr-1-2433/converter-dc-dc-24v-3-3v-1a-sip/dp/1696319
2013-03-24T17:41:20 < zyp> flop, it's a cpld, and it's only for rerouting/muxing IO
2013-03-24T17:41:25 < Tectu> flop, if it's a general question, I'm using SPI in my design
2013-03-24T17:41:31 < Tectu> flop, but I don't have much traffic too
2013-03-24T17:41:33 < emeb_mac> Tectu: also, as gxti pointed out the 0.9W dissipation requires more attention to heatsinking.
2013-03-24T17:41:44 < zyp> flop, so it's just hooked to GPIOs with timer/uart/can capability
2013-03-24T17:41:48 < Tectu> emeb_mac, 0.9W is fine for an LF33
2013-03-24T17:41:59 < Tectu> emeb_mac, using three of them in one of my current designs
2013-03-24T17:42:02 < emeb_mac> so I have to use a larger pkg for the LDO and add thermal planes.
2013-03-24T17:42:36 < flop> i see
2013-03-24T17:44:32 < emeb_mac> Tectu: which pkg?
2013-03-24T17:45:17 < Tectu> emeb_mac, DPACK2
2013-03-24T17:45:39 < gxti> DDPAK* :p
2013-03-24T17:45:59 < gxti> or D²PAK not that that's any shorter
2013-03-24T17:46:28 < emeb_mac> yeah - I used a DPAK for the TLV1117.
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2013-03-24T17:46:48 < emeb_mac> with my current draw it'll be running at about 90C at the junction.
2013-03-24T17:47:13 < emeb_mac> gave it about 1.5 sq in copper on the board too...
2013-03-24T17:52:20 < gxti> eh, temperature rise should be something like 20K
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2013-03-24T17:59:06 < emeb_mac> 20K?
2013-03-24T17:59:12 < zyp> kelvin
2013-03-24T17:59:21 < zyp> which equals 20C
2013-03-24T17:59:28 < zyp> since it's relative
2013-03-24T17:59:52 < emeb_mac> ya - I know kelvin, just don't use it much.
2013-03-24T18:00:32 < gxti> easier to type than 20°C. 20C is technically coulombs :p
2013-03-24T18:03:56 < emeb_mac> heh
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2013-03-24T18:06:44 < emeb_mac> Quote from David Jones (redhat kernel dev): highlight of the last week: I had someone who looks up peoples assholes for a living tell me my chosen career "doesn't sound too fulfilling"
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2013-03-24T19:21:02 < Tectu> http://www.abload.de/img/analog2_bottomabx8h.jpg
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2013-03-24T19:31:01 < emeb_mac> Tectu: whazzat?
2013-03-24T19:31:15 < Tectu> emeb_mac, some analog shit
2013-03-24T19:31:18 < Tectu> which somehow works
2013-03-24T19:31:26 < Tectu> input DC to 100MHz
2013-03-24T19:31:37 < emeb_mac> doing what?
2013-03-24T19:31:39 < Tectu> you can control the amplitude and the DC-Offset through a digital interface
2013-03-24T19:31:51 < emeb_mac> ah - pga + summing.
2013-03-24T19:31:59 < Tectu> and it works very well, the amplitude doesn't change more than 10mV over the entire spectrum
2013-03-24T19:32:11 < Tectu> it has some copper shielding on both sides
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2013-03-24T19:39:08 < emeb_mac> how did you do the vias on the shield?
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2013-03-24T19:51:15 < emeb_mac> fxd0h coming and going.
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2013-03-24T19:51:44 < zyp> somebody should «fix» that
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2013-03-24T19:54:15 < Tectu> emeb_mac, I drilled a hole and put a via through each?
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2013-03-24T19:54:32 < emeb_mac> Tectu: thought so. sounds tedious.
2013-03-24T19:54:43 < Tectu> emeb_mac, yeah, it was a nice job
2013-03-24T19:54:47 < Tectu> especially because I made two of em
2013-03-24T19:54:51 < Tectu> and still need three more
2013-03-24T19:54:53 < emeb_mac> Tectu: what is this module for?
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2013-03-24T19:55:23 < Tectu> emeb_mac, it's the analog backend for the arbitrary signal generator I'm currently building
2013-03-24T19:55:36 < emeb_mac> Tectu: Fun!
2013-03-24T19:56:44 < Tectu> emeb_mac, indeed!
2013-03-24T19:56:51 < Tectu> F407 + FPGA
2013-03-24T19:57:18 < emeb_mac> that would do it. 5 channels? What DAC, resolution, sample rate?
2013-03-24T19:58:54 < Tectu> emeb_mac, no, three channels, sample rate is 140MHz, resolution only 10-bit, will do 12 or 14 in future
2013-03-24T19:59:05 < Tectu> also targetting 250MHz Sample rate
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2013-03-24T20:05:28 < TitanMKD> Tectu what the application for 250MHz sample rate ?
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2013-03-24T20:05:51 < TitanMKD> Tectu especially 12/14 bits it is very expensive ADC ...
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2013-03-24T20:06:40 < TitanMKD> ha ok you speak about DAC
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2013-03-24T20:10:14 < Tectu> yeah
2013-03-24T20:10:25 < Tectu> the current DAC is about 15$ on farnell
2013-03-24T20:10:58 < Tectu> and application: home use
2013-03-24T20:11:48 < gxti> just your everyday 250mhz function generator, even your grandma's got one
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2013-03-24T20:14:49 < Tectu> 250MHz is just the sample rate
2013-03-24T20:14:55 < Tectu> also it's not function, it's signal generator
2013-03-24T20:15:00 < Tectu> function can only do mathematical function
2013-03-24T20:15:03 < Tectu> mine you can even give a .wav
2013-03-24T20:15:22 < Tectu> also modulation across all three channels, phase offset sync etc.
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2013-03-24T20:26:41 <+Steffanx> dekar awake?
2013-03-24T20:28:10 < Tectu> Steffanx, how are you?
2013-03-24T20:28:27 <+Steffanx> Fine fine, you?
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2013-03-24T20:30:37 < Tectu> I'm fine too, thanks!
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2013-03-24T20:33:07 <+Steffanx> Great!
2013-03-24T20:34:37 <+Steffanx> I was fine fine, you just fine Tectu .. why so?
2013-03-24T20:34:49 < Tectu> Steffanx, I'm a bit tired, that's all :)
2013-03-24T20:34:57 <+Steffanx> gf to blame?
2013-03-24T20:35:23 < Tectu> sadly not
2013-03-24T20:35:35 <+Steffanx> left hand? Right hand? Laurenceb ?
2013-03-24T20:36:28 < Tectu> sadly not
2013-03-24T20:36:32 < Tectu> just work this time
2013-03-24T20:37:58 <+Steffanx> work or hobby bobbying?
2013-03-24T20:38:05 < Tectu> work :>
2013-03-24T20:38:06 < Tectu> :<*
2013-03-24T20:38:13 <+Steffanx> You work?!?!!?
2013-03-24T20:38:50 <+Steffanx> g*ycam.com? :P
2013-03-24T20:39:49 <+Steffanx> or tect4u.com ?
2013-03-24T20:40:11 < Tectu> it's actually called faprence4free.biz
2013-03-24T20:40:26 < Tectu> had to do server migration since there's a lot of new material
2013-03-24T20:41:06 <+Steffanx> Ah
2013-03-24T20:41:36 < Tectu> Steffanx, did you had a nice dinner?
2013-03-24T20:41:42 < Tectu> did you have*
2013-03-24T20:42:38 <+Steffanx> of course
2013-03-24T20:42:48 < Tectu> so, what are you wearing?
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2013-03-24T20:43:40 <+Steffanx> Nothing
2013-03-24T20:43:46 <+Steffanx> Like a real nerd
2013-03-24T20:44:15 < Tectu> that's nasty!
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2013-03-24T20:58:18 < upgrdman> regarding the discovery board, pin6 of the swd header is listed as reserved, but on the f0discov its labeled as SDO in the schematic and connected to PB3. is it used? what for?
2013-03-24T20:58:46 < upgrdman> errr not SDO, but SWO
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2013-03-24T20:59:55 < zyp> upgrdman, trace
2013-03-24T21:00:41 < zyp> most tools don't use it
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2013-03-24T21:03:05 < upgrdman> k
2013-03-24T21:03:11 < upgrdman> thanks
2013-03-24T21:07:15 < TitanMKD> Tectu anyway 250MHz DAC is about 25Mhz out freq
2013-03-24T21:07:24 < TitanMKD> but good for lot of stuff
2013-03-24T21:07:29 < Tectu> TitanMKD, wtf?
2013-03-24T21:07:29 < Tectu> no
2013-03-24T21:07:37 < Tectu> TitanMKD, my current DAC can do 170MHz output freq
2013-03-24T21:07:44 < TitanMKD> ha great
2013-03-24T21:07:54 < TitanMKD> even sin signal ?
2013-03-24T21:07:55 < Tectu> Sine at 20MHz looks nice
2013-03-24T21:07:58 < Tectu> -.-'
2013-03-24T21:07:59 < TitanMKD> ha ok
2013-03-24T21:08:04 < Tectu> output freq is the sample freq
2013-03-24T21:08:12 < Tectu> means how many times it does sample the input pins
2013-03-24T21:08:17 < TitanMKD> yes so in worst case 20/25MHz
2013-03-24T21:08:26 < TitanMKD> but it depends on the type of out signal
2013-03-24T21:08:30 < Tectu> no, it does not.
2013-03-24T21:08:35 < gxti> 170Msps?
2013-03-24T21:08:38 < gxti> != 170MHz
2013-03-24T21:08:38 < Tectu> yes
2013-03-24T21:08:40 < Tectu> no
2013-03-24T21:08:42 < Tectu> 330MBPS
2013-03-24T21:08:54 < Tectu> it's an ADV7123
2013-03-24T21:09:12 < jpa-> you still didn't find out what the 330MBPS vs. 170Msps is really about? :)
2013-03-24T21:09:13 < TitanMKD> hmm interesting
2013-03-24T21:09:28 < Tectu> jpa-, you said datasheet doesn't mention 3300mbps at all, but it does ^^
2013-03-24T21:09:37 < gxti> so it can do 165mhz of trash, or 16mhz of nice stuff
2013-03-24T21:09:42 < Tectu> gxti, exactly
2013-03-24T21:10:02 < jpa-> Tectu: also, TitanMKD and gxti are correct, "output frequency" of signal generators is the frequency at which it can generate reasonable waveforms :)
2013-03-24T21:10:16 < upgrdman> trying to use my f4discov board's stlink to program my f0 pcb. i keep getting the "no target connected" error :(. i have the two stlink/discovery jumpers open, and i even unbridged SB11 to disconect NRST from the f4. any tricks or common mistakes?
2013-03-24T21:10:47 < TitanMKD> I was thinking it was maybe an I/Q DAC ;)
2013-03-24T21:10:52 < jpa-> upgrdman: do you know whether the board works?
2013-03-24T21:10:52 < TitanMKD> but no
2013-03-24T21:11:04 < Tectu> jpa-, I thought that TitanMKD means the max DAC clock frequency with "output frequency" when we were talking about the DAC - sorry
2013-03-24T21:11:13 < Tectu> TitanMKD, what's an I/Q DAC?
2013-03-24T21:11:22 < TitanMKD> Tectu quadrature DAC
2013-03-24T21:11:27 < TitanMKD> used for RF mainly
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2013-03-24T21:11:35 < Tectu> what's a quadrature DAC
2013-03-24T21:11:39 < TitanMKD> and with 20msps you have 10MHz out
2013-03-24T21:11:46 < upgrdman> jpa-: well its a new board, so not exactly. but i know the reset pin is high when powered up, and when powered off the reset pin is NOT connected to vdd or gnd... so i think at least that part of the mcu is working
2013-03-24T21:12:24 < TitanMKD> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_modulation
2013-03-24T21:12:40 < jpa-> upgrdman: if you have boot0, you could try the bootloader
2013-03-24T21:13:10 < upgrdman> i tied boot0 to gnd
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2013-03-24T21:16:30 < TitanMKD> Tectu the drawback of quadrature is you need I and Q for a 8bits ADC/DAC you need I=8bits and Q=8bits and so on
2013-03-24T21:17:12 < TitanMKD> Tectu so for 12 or 14 bits in fact you need to round it to 16bits I & 16bits Q so 32bits ...
2013-03-24T21:20:13 < Tectu> TitanMKD, ah
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2013-03-24T21:22:40 < upgrdman> jpa-: i think i have it all wired correctly. swd-p1 = vdd-sense = 3v rail of my pcb.   swd-p2 = clk = pa14 of my f0.   swd-p3 = gnd = gnd of my pcb (same gnd as the discov board too).   swd-p4 = swdio = pa13 of m f0.   swd-p5 = nrst = nrst of my f0.   swd-p6 = reserved = no contact. does that sound right?
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2013-03-24T21:26:39 < TitanMKD> Tectu anyway your solution with standard DAC is also good
2013-03-24T21:26:51 < Tectu> TitanMKD, I'll see
2013-03-24T21:26:58 < Tectu> TitanMKD, I'll make a new, better one for sure
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2013-03-24T21:34:05 < Robint91> Tectu, TitanMKD WHAT?
2013-03-24T21:34:20 < Robint91> All that gibberish
2013-03-24T21:34:27 < TitanMKD> ?
2013-03-24T21:34:33 < Robint91> about samplerates and bandwitdhs
2013-03-24T21:34:58 < Robint91> samplerate HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH the maximum frequency
2013-03-24T21:35:05 < Robint91> only bandwidth
2013-03-24T21:35:08 < gxti> lol
2013-03-24T21:35:29 < Tectu> ._.
2013-03-24T21:35:34 < TitanMKD> Robint91 for me smps => freq is smps/10 even if nyquist say smps/2 for sin or other it is more /10
2013-03-24T21:36:07 < TitanMKD> a bit like on oscilloscope even with 1Gsps it is hard to see a clean 100Mhz signal sometimes ;)
2013-03-24T21:36:21 < gxti> Robint91: technically correct but unhelpful
2013-03-24T21:36:46 < Robint91> TitanMKD, Out of a 250msps DAC I can easily get a 180MHz sine
2013-03-24T21:37:06 < TitanMKD> except for same signal where repetition help ;)
2013-03-24T21:37:30 < gxti> and with so much filtering that a 1 degree change in room temperature alters the frequency :p
2013-03-24T21:38:07 < Robint91> gxti, maybe
2013-03-24T21:38:10 < Robint91> but it is possible
2013-03-24T21:38:21 < Robint91> brb
2013-03-24T21:38:24 < TitanMKD> Robint91 i speak about "complex" signal not just a sin alone but try to modulate a NFC freq ;)
2013-03-24T21:40:17 < TitanMKD> 180Mhz with 250msps is not even 2 points per sample !!
2013-03-24T21:40:37 < TitanMKD> i imagine the signal will be really ugly except with tricks and with fixed signal
2013-03-24T21:41:17 < TitanMKD> else my oscilloscope will do 1Ghz with 1Gsps ;)
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2013-03-24T21:43:32 < jpa-> upgrdman: seems correct
2013-03-24T21:43:57 < upgrdman> ok
2013-03-24T21:44:13 < upgrdman> i guess i'll post on some forum to see if anyone has tried what im doing
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2013-03-24T22:00:06 < Robint91> TitanMKD, NFC has only only 500kHz bandwidth?
2013-03-24T22:00:18 < Robint91> TitanMKD, in theory only a 1MSPS DAC will be sufficient
2013-03-24T22:01:32 < Robint91> TitanMKD, You don't will see a difference between that and a full 30MSPS dac
2013-03-24T22:02:18 < Robint91> TitanMKD, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undersampling http://www.analog.com/library/analogDialogue/archives/31-3/Selecting.html
2013-03-24T22:02:25 < TitanMKD> Robint91 but you need to modulate at 13Mhz too
2013-03-24T22:02:34 < Robint91> TitanMKD, nope
2013-03-24T22:02:48 < TitanMKD> i do not speak of sub carrier only which is the bw
2013-03-24T22:03:01 < TitanMKD> but main is important too and your dac shall do ALL
2013-03-24T22:03:13 < Robint91> TitanMKD, I can generate the 13MHz carriar + modulated data
2013-03-24T22:03:18 < Robint91> with a 1MSPS DAC
2013-03-24T22:03:27 < TitanMKD> with a 250msps DAC try to modulate FM radio at 100.2MHz you will see you cannot
2013-03-24T22:03:42 < TitanMKD> you have just not enough samples ...
2013-03-24T22:03:53 < Robint91> TitanMKD, only if the data bandwidth is below 500khz
2013-03-24T22:04:00 < Robint91> TitanMKD, BS, that goes perfectly
2013-03-24T22:04:13 < Robint91> TitanMKD, it just requires the correct filter at the end
2013-03-24T22:04:21 < TitanMKD> i speak without any filter ;)
2013-03-24T22:04:25 < TitanMKD> DAC alone of course
2013-03-24T22:04:48 < Robint91> TitanMKD, without a filter a DAC generates unwanted images
2013-03-24T22:04:48 < TitanMKD> as i think you speak about using other component to mix with DAC
2013-03-24T22:05:02 < Robint91> TitanMKD, only a DAC and a band pass filter
2013-03-24T22:05:56 < Robint91> TitanMKD, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist%E2%80%93Shannon_sampling_theorem
2013-03-24T22:06:24 < Robint91> TitanMKD, when you sample, if it is now for ADC or DAC it stays the same
2013-03-24T22:06:24 < gxti> nerd fight
2013-03-24T22:06:24 < Robint91> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/ReconstructFilter.png
2013-03-24T22:06:26 < Robint91> this
2013-03-24T22:06:31 < TitanMKD> the problem is Nyquist is good for some stuff ;)
2013-03-24T22:06:55 < TitanMKD> example check a sinusoid signal with an ADC @ 100MSPS and a Sin @ 100Mhz
2013-03-24T22:06:59 < TitanMKD> you will see nothing !!
2013-03-24T22:07:04 < Robint91> when you sample you create images of the signal on fs / fs*2 / fs * 3
2013-03-24T22:07:15 < Robint91> TitanMKD, why not?
2013-03-24T22:07:35 < TitanMKD> in that case why scope 1Gsps can do only 100MHz ;)
2013-03-24T22:07:55 < TitanMKD> and why frequency generator 250msps can generate only max 25/30MHz signal !!
2013-03-24T22:08:01 < Robint91> TitanMKD, internal low pass filters, to cancel out the images
2013-03-24T22:08:12 < Robint91> TitanMKD, you need special crafted filters to use the images
2013-03-24T22:08:31 < TitanMKD> it is different if the ADC/DAC use quadrature I/Q ...
2013-03-24T22:08:41 < Robint91> TitanMKD, nope
2013-03-24T22:08:45 < zyp> TitanMKD, you are wrong
2013-03-24T22:09:07 < Robint91> TitanMKD, for example
2013-03-24T22:09:21 < Robint91> If you feed a 40MHz sine into a 25MSPS ADC
2013-03-24T22:09:24 < Robint91> what do you get?
2013-03-24T22:09:33 < Robint91> answer (10MHz)
2013-03-24T22:10:11 < Robint91> but if you know that there can't be any signal belowe 25MHz because you have a good highpass filter before the ADC
2013-03-24T22:10:13 < TitanMKD> and you cannot say it was 40Mhz ;)
2013-03-24T22:10:20 < gxti> seriously could this be any more nitpicky
2013-03-24T22:10:23 < zyp> TitanMKD, the DAC will generate harmonics, and you can generate a frequency higher than fs/2 by picking one of the overtones instead of the fundamental
2013-03-24T22:10:31 < gxti> we were talking about a waveform generator not RF
2013-03-24T22:10:42 < Robint91> you know almost that it is from the 40MHz
2013-03-24T22:11:06 < TitanMKD> i speak more about general purpose stuff not specific like square, sin, generator with fixed stuff
2013-03-24T22:11:23 < Robint91> TitanMKD, so you know everything is shifted by a frequency
2013-03-24T22:11:42 < TitanMKD> and in my case and for my usage i always think for 10Mhz signal i need 100msps ...
2013-03-24T22:12:06 < Robint91> TitanMKD, you only need 20Msps
2013-03-24T22:12:12 < Robint91> with a good filter
2013-03-24T22:12:19 < TitanMKD> yes but you are in a special case
2013-03-24T22:12:20 < zyp> with an ideal filter
2013-03-24T22:12:26 < zyp> but they don't exist :p
2013-03-24T22:12:28 < TitanMKD> your filter will work only for that case ;)
2013-03-24T22:12:52 < gxti> TitanMKD: the important thing to keep in mind is that a 10mhz square wave does not have 10mhz bandwidth
2013-03-24T22:12:53 < TitanMKD> my need are the stuff shall work in a range ;)
2013-03-24T22:13:13 < TitanMKD> for me it requires 10mhz bandwidth ;)
2013-03-24T22:13:23 < gxti> ok that's fantastic
2013-03-24T22:13:29 < Robint91> TitanMKD, so you only need a minimum of 20MSPS
2013-03-24T22:13:31 < Robint91> nothing more
2013-03-24T22:13:37 < Robint91> *a bit more
2013-03-24T22:13:57 < TitanMKD> i think you are more focalised on special stuff like defined freq and filter
2013-03-24T22:14:35 < TitanMKD> in that case nyquist is fine
2013-03-24T22:14:39 < Robint91> TitanMKD, mhh, you don't get it, do you know about nyquist?
2013-03-24T22:14:49 < gxti> TitanMKD: since you can make a 10mhz square wave with 10mhz bandwidth then 20msps should be enough for everything. good luck.
2013-03-24T22:14:50 < Robint91> and what it states
2013-03-24T22:14:53 < gxti> TitanMKD: i expect a paper on your findings.
2013-03-24T22:15:22 < TitanMKD> my needs are more rf stuff anyway
2013-03-24T22:15:41  * Robint91 is going to work next year on UWB stuff
2013-03-24T22:15:44 < gxti> the bottom line is that the useful frequency range of a waveform generator will be well below its bandwidth, because otherwise it can only make sine waves
2013-03-24T22:15:51 < Robint91> subsampling 10GHz signals
2013-03-24T22:15:51 < gxti> and sine waves are borign
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2013-03-24T22:16:32 < TitanMKD> i speak about waveform generator
2013-03-24T22:16:36 < TitanMKD> since the start in fact
2013-03-24T22:16:47 < TitanMKD> arbitrary wfm generator
2013-03-24T22:16:58 < TitanMKD> where 250msps = about 25Mhz and even less
2013-03-24T22:17:06 < gxti> you have not yet demonstrated comprehension of the difference between frequency and bandwidth, so i have to make sure :p
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2013-03-24T22:17:19 < Robint91> TitanMKD, that is mad
2013-03-24T22:17:34 < Robint91> TitanMKD, for 25MHz bandwidth
2013-03-24T22:17:46 < zyp> he's not talking about bandwidth
2013-03-24T22:17:52 < gxti> he's talking about the frequency of the waveform, not the bandwidth, he just doesn't understand that
2013-03-24T22:18:03 < TitanMKD> yes with 25Mhz bw to build any type of signal without any limitation
2013-03-24T22:18:14 < TitanMKD> not just sin or square ...
2013-03-24T22:18:20 < gxti> goddamn you are thick
2013-03-24T22:18:32 < Robint91> TitanMKD, you know that with 25MHz BW you can't generate a 25MHz square
2013-03-24T22:18:38 < gxti> i give up
2013-03-24T22:18:42 < Robint91> TitanMKD, do you even fourier transfrom?
2013-03-24T22:18:45 < gxti> blog concluded, back to useful work
2013-03-24T22:18:47 < TitanMKD> Robint91 of course what can do more can do less ;)
2013-03-24T22:19:29 < zyp> Robint91, but with a 250msps DAC, he have 125 MHz of bandwidth, which should be enough for a reasonable 25 MHz square
2013-03-24T22:19:54 < Robint91> zyp, yeah if you take the 5 harmonic of the square you can get a good result
2013-03-24T22:20:21 < Robint91> zyp, but that requires a 125MHz BW
2013-03-24T22:20:29 < Robint91> he only wants 25
2013-03-24T22:20:34 < zyp> no
2013-03-24T22:20:45 < zyp> he just don't understand that he really wants 125
2013-03-24T22:20:54 < gxti> he's not the one making anything
2013-03-24T22:20:57 < TitanMKD> yes if you prefer i need 125Mhz ;)
2013-03-24T22:21:00 < gxti> he just wanted to chat
2013-03-24T22:21:38 < gxti> Tectu is actually making the thing
2013-03-24T22:21:52 < Tectu> ah, still the talk here? ^^
2013-03-24T22:22:07 < TitanMKD> build me a 180MHz wfm generator with 250msps DAC
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2013-03-24T22:22:29 < TitanMKD> i will check it with oscilloscope after ;)
2013-03-24T22:22:30 < gxti> Tectu: we're not very smart
2013-03-24T22:22:41 < zyp> *yawn*
2013-03-24T22:22:47 < Tectu> gxti, maybe
2013-03-24T22:22:59 < Tectu> I know that my input filter sux
2013-03-24T22:23:03 < Tectu> 9. grade LC-Filter
2013-03-24T22:23:23 < zyp> TitanMKD, any news on lpc stuff?
2013-03-24T22:23:23 < Tectu> square wave, @ 1MHz I get FUCKING straight lines, at 20MHz not anymore :<
2013-03-24T22:23:51 < TitanMKD> zyp not really and you ?
2013-03-24T22:23:57 < zyp> not at all
2013-03-24T22:24:04 < TitanMKD> zyp i'm waiting the LPC43xx with SDRAM @ 204Mhz ;)
2013-03-24T22:24:44 < zyp> I think the SDRAM controller can run at sysclock/2 at most
2013-03-24T22:24:52 < zyp> unless I remember it wrong
2013-03-24T22:24:58 < TitanMKD> zyp no it can run higher
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2013-03-24T22:25:06 < zyp> if you say so
2013-03-24T22:25:21 < TitanMKD> zyp but it is not really easy to reach such high freq
2013-03-24T22:25:26 < zyp> my sdram is only specced to 133 or 166 anyway
2013-03-24T22:25:36 < zyp> (forgot which)
2013-03-24T22:26:20 < TitanMKD> zyp on my github libopencm3 i have done multicore m0/m4 examples
2013-03-24T22:26:38 < TitanMKD> zyp i will add the ipc mechanism it is low priority wip ...
2013-03-24T22:35:08 < Robint91> damm http://i.imgur.com/EnJxkl9.png
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2013-03-24T23:50:22 < R0b0t1> Are there any 3rd party breakout boards? The discoveries aren't too bad, but they're a tad large for what they've got on them and need a bunch of support circuitry.
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2013-03-25T00:45:32 < zyp> R0b0t1, lots
2013-03-25T00:45:52 < zyp> which chip family are you looking for?
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2013-03-25T01:00:04 < R0b0t1> zyp: Well. F0 and F4
2013-03-25T01:00:24 < R0b0t1> I'd be happy relegating myself to looking through search results, but haven't found any good keywords yet
2013-03-25T01:00:32 < R0b0t1> but if you have something to suggest, I'd love to look at it
2013-03-25T01:02:32 < R0b0t1> All I could find were blog posts about works in progress, or ones I didn't specifically agree with
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2013-03-25T01:05:44 < dongs> Tectu: i only do work for monies so yes
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2013-03-25T01:06:04 < dongs> and i paid for full version, when i bought it was ~650? or something for full, i think price went up due to dollar being shit but whatever.
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2013-03-25T01:10:10 < Phantomix> R0b0t1 I think, there's a "core" board for F2/F4 on ebay
2013-03-25T01:10:24 < Phantomix> it's from china; 1 sec, i'll search for it
2013-03-25T01:10:45 < dongs> yeah, waveshare etc
2013-03-25T01:11:06 <+Steffanx> Waring: dongs has shares/stocks from that company!
2013-03-25T01:11:09 <+Steffanx> *Warning
2013-03-25T01:11:10 < dongs> lol
2013-03-25T01:11:14 < Phantomix> this looks great http://www.ebay.com/itm/QFP100-LQFP100-QFP-STM32F2-STM32F4-IC-Test-Socket-Programming-Adapter-0-5Pitch-/260973324632?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc338e958
2013-03-25T01:11:27 <+Steffanx> Yeah, waveshare :P
2013-03-25T01:11:50 < Phantomix> ?
2013-03-25T01:11:53 < Phantomix> ok
2013-03-25T01:12:18 < dongs> http://www.wvshare.com/product/STM32-QFP100.htm
2013-03-25T01:12:30 < Phantomix> http://www.ebay.com/itm/STM32F407-417ZG-module-HY-STM32F4xxCore144-Core-Dev-Board-/180923405960?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1fe01688
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2013-03-25T01:12:32 < dongs> same price on shitbay t oo
2013-03-25T01:12:46 <+Steffanx> shipping costs?
2013-03-25T01:12:56 < dongs> http://www.wvshare.com/product/STM32-QFP48.htm i have this, its cool
2013-03-25T01:13:05 < Phantomix> Shipping:
2013-03-25T01:13:05 < Phantomix> FREE ePacket delivery from China
2013-03-25T01:13:12 < zyp> sounds like waveshare
2013-03-25T01:13:14 < zyp> they make a bunch of decent boards
2013-03-25T01:13:27 < Laurenceb_> you could run lunix on that
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2013-03-25T01:13:38 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb_ you are not being helpful
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2013-03-25T01:14:01 < dongs> Steffanx: well when i order from them i usually choose $20 sf express shipping that gets it to me in like 2 days
2013-03-25T01:14:16 <+Steffanx> Normal people have patience
2013-03-25T01:14:18 < dongs> so i dont really  care for freeship stuff
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2013-03-25T01:15:10 < Laurenceb_> splitttz
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2013-03-25T01:15:11 <+Steffanx> You, as a multinational, should sponsor us dongs
2013-03-25T01:15:27 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2013-03-25T01:15:31 < Laurenceb_> pay us wages
2013-03-25T01:15:52 < Laurenceb_> trolling isnt cheap you know
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2013-03-25T01:18:42 <+Steffanx> I'm sure he still earned more troll credits than you and me together Laurenceb_
2013-03-25T01:18:48 < Laurenceb_> true
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2013-03-25T01:20:05 < R0b0t1> Phantomix: Thanks, looks pretty nice
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2013-03-25T01:20:10 < Phantomix> np
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2013-03-25T01:21:09 < R0b0t1> I really like the fact it has a socket. Those things are a little pricey though. I remember doing some dev for 28-soic PICs, loved it
2013-03-25T01:21:25 < zyp_> zlog
2013-03-25T01:21:30 <+Steffanx> is dead
2013-03-25T01:21:37 <+Steffanx> zlog help us!
2013-03-25T01:21:42 < zyp_> the server I was on died
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2013-03-25T01:21:53 <+Steffanx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-24.html :)
2013-03-25T01:21:57 < zyp_> anyway, what did I miss? what was the last I wrote?
2013-03-25T01:22:07 <+Steffanx> zlog doesnt know what we said
2013-03-25T01:22:15 <+Steffanx> [00:13:14]  <zyp> they make a bunch of decent boards
2013-03-25T01:22:24 < zyp_> ah
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2013-03-25T01:22:31 <+Steffanx> You didn't miss anything
2013-03-25T01:22:35 < zyp_> 00:13:00 < zyp> they make a bunch of decent boards
2013-03-25T01:22:36 < zyp_> 00:13:48 < zyp> http://www.wvshare.com/column/STM32_DevelopmentBoard.htm
2013-03-25T01:22:36 < zyp_> 00:14:47 < zyp> I have their 407Z kit
2013-03-25T01:22:36 < zyp_> 00:14:49 < zyp> it's nice
2013-03-25T01:22:37 < R0b0t1> Also, that core board, pretty nice because of form. Drop it onto the isolation board.
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2013-03-25T01:23:17 <+Steffanx> zlog
2013-03-25T01:23:17 < zlog_> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-24.html
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2013-03-25T01:24:06 <+Steffanx> Whoa freenode
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2013-03-25T01:24:26 < gxti> fail
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2013-03-25T01:25:09 <+Steffanx>  
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2013-03-25T01:31:43 < Laurenceb_> rage
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2013-03-25T01:31:53 < Laurenceb_> firefox pdf viewer has memory leaks
2013-03-25T01:32:10 < Laurenceb_> leave it running for 2 months and its eaten 2GB ram
2013-03-25T01:32:17  * Laurenceb_ zzz
2013-03-25T01:33:28 < dongs> thats just failfox
2013-03-25T01:33:34 < dongs> stopped using that long time ago
2013-03-25T01:33:36 < gxti> firefox has a pdf viewer?
2013-03-25T01:33:43 < dongs> who doesnt these days?
2013-03-25T01:33:46 < dongs> and they're all shit too
2013-03-25T01:33:55 < dongs> nothing beats adobe for readability/usability
2013-03-25T01:33:59 < gxti> maybe i disabled it years ago and forgot
2013-03-25T01:34:02 < gxti> also lol
2013-03-25T01:34:08 < Erlkoenig> adobe??? lol
2013-03-25T01:34:08 < dongs> i think fagffox has some javascript-based pdf viewer
2013-03-25T01:34:13 < Erlkoenig> jes
2013-03-25T01:34:14 < qyx> adobe what?
2013-03-25T01:34:19 < dongs> chrome has some built in shit too buit zooming/navigation blows dicks
2013-03-25T01:34:20 < Erlkoenig> adobe acrobat reader
2013-03-25T01:34:25 < dongs> adobe reader / adobe acrobat
2013-03-25T01:34:40 < dongs> i use hte latter since its also the best pdf printer
2013-03-25T01:34:44 < Erlkoenig> i found Foxit or evince much more comfortable while much less bloaty
2013-03-25T01:34:47 < qyx> pdf printer?
2013-03-25T01:34:49 < dongs> none of opensores pdf printers are worth a shit
2013-03-25T01:34:50 < dongs> yeah
2013-03-25T01:34:53 < gxti> evince is dumb as a box of rocks but it works well, sometimes it fails to pick up whatever asinine wingdings are used in some datasheets
2013-03-25T01:35:07 < qyx> i assumed that its builting frature of all normal operating systems
2013-03-25T01:35:12 < qyx> built-in
2013-03-25T01:35:31 < Erlkoenig> it just seems copy&pasting pdf tables can never work with any PDF Viewer including Acroread
2013-03-25T01:35:52 < gxti> that's because pdf is basically just a shitty programming language that draws on the screen. sometimes one letter at a time.
2013-03-25T01:36:07 < Erlkoenig> ugh
2013-03-25T01:36:12 < gxti> depends on what awful software was used to generate it.
2013-03-25T01:36:19 < qyx> i am also using evince without aby problems
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2013-03-25T01:36:33 < dongs> < gxti> depends on what awful software was used to generate it.
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2013-03-25T01:36:40 < dongs> yeah, and all the opensores software generates awful pdfs.
2013-03-25T01:36:50 < dongs> which is why i use acrobat.
2013-03-25T01:36:58 < gxti> good for you dongs
2013-03-25T01:37:05 < gxti> good for you.
2013-03-25T01:37:20 < izzy84075> I've had more issues with Acrobat than I have with anything else...
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2013-03-25T01:37:33 < dongs> "issues"
2013-03-25T01:37:36 < dongs> can y ou be specific?
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2013-03-25T01:38:43 < izzy84075> Forms, mostly. Never wants to save properly.
2013-03-25T01:38:45 < dongs> lunix fgts always say shit like "Window$ program X $ucks!!! fuck bill gates!!!" but when asked to give specifics they never have anything
2013-03-25T01:38:57 < dongs> i've used forms feature a LOT (creating and filling out)
2013-03-25T01:39:02 < dongs> have had NO problems whatsoever.
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2013-03-25T01:39:34 < dongs> "never wants to save properly" doesn't evne make sense.
2013-03-25T01:39:45 < dongs> bbl
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--- Log closed Mon Mar 25 02:39:31 2013
--- Log opened Mon Mar 25 02:39:41 2013
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2013-03-25T02:39:41 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 70 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 68 normal]
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2013-03-25T03:11:17 < dongs> hmm
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2013-03-25T03:32:31 < ossifrage> grr, --gc-sections still seems to like to eat symbols with explicit __attribute__((used))
2013-03-25T03:33:18 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: zippe
2013-03-25T03:33:37 < Bird|lappy> file a bug?
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2013-03-25T04:09:46 < dongs> https://youtube.com/watch?v=Baq9wZ3-wTM
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2013-03-25T04:15:27 < GargantuaSauce__> ok then
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2013-03-25T04:20:22 -!- grummund [~user@unaffiliated/grummund] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2013-03-25T04:20:27 < GargantuaSauce__> i think i am actually impressed you managed to stay there for an hour and a half
2013-03-25T04:20:32 -!- grummund [~user@unaffiliated/grummund] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-25T04:20:55 < dongs> clearly you have no taste for awesome :)
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2013-03-25T04:22:22 < GargantuaSauce__> you may be right
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2013-03-25T10:08:18 < Tectu> dongs, you seem to like money a lot
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2013-03-25T10:23:49 < Tectu> guys... the Cortex-M core has some simple mode? what?
2013-03-25T10:24:33 < dongs> what
2013-03-25T10:24:35 < dongs> @ botrh questions
2013-03-25T10:24:38 < dongs> both
2013-03-25T10:26:55 < jpa-> simple mode for simple people
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2013-03-25T10:53:47 < Tectu> jpa-, no shit sherlock
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2013-03-25T11:25:17 < zyp_> simple mode?
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2013-03-25T11:28:16 < qyx> gxti: have you released your ntp-gps-thing under that? http://www.oshwa.org/definition/
2013-03-25T11:28:48 < dongs> he probably wants to at least make SOME money from it
2013-03-25T11:28:54 < dongs> before you clone the shit out of it
2013-03-25T11:30:45 < qyx> i am asking because i saw that logo on it
2013-03-25T11:31:03 < qyx> not because i am about to clone it
2013-03-25T11:31:28 < qyx> was just reading the oshwa definition and i disagree with some parts of it
2013-03-25T11:32:06 < qyx> mainly with the part which is restricting the ability to restrict desing for non-commercial usage only
2013-03-25T11:36:46 < qyx> or maybe i got it wrong
2013-03-25T11:39:48 < Tectu> zyp, "Note that this vector is not available in the simplified kernel mode (the option CORTEX_SIMPLIFIED_PRIORITY which is not the default anyway)."
2013-03-25T11:40:14 < zyp> umm
2013-03-25T11:40:19 < zyp> «simplified kernel»
2013-03-25T11:40:38 < Tectu> oh...
2013-03-25T11:40:41 < Tectu> that's a bad one
2013-03-25T11:40:44 < Tectu> clear the logs!
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2013-03-25T12:19:56 < dongs> To reduce the IC thermal resistance, and therefore improve the dissipation path, the NC pins
2013-03-25T12:20:00 < dongs> can be connected to GND.
2013-03-25T12:20:02 < dongs> thanks!!!
2013-03-25T12:20:08 < dongs> (why not just make the fucking things GND anyway)
2013-03-25T12:20:32 < dongs> (there are like 17 NC pins)
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2013-03-25T14:26:14 < Laurenceb> http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/36619876.jpg
2013-03-25T14:32:09 < gxti> qyx: not that license but it is open source
2013-03-25T14:32:43 < gxti> permissively
2013-03-25T14:34:51 < dongs> fucking hell lunix.tv expiring in 10 days
2013-03-25T14:34:51 < dongs> $30 more wasted
2013-03-25T14:35:37 < gxti> whatever makes you happy, i guess
2013-03-25T14:36:43 < qyx> is it still considered oshw if i release it under CC non-commercial share-alike?
2013-03-25T14:37:47 < gxti> probably not
2013-03-25T14:38:35 < gxti> NC is bad juju
2013-03-25T14:38:45 < qyx> :S
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2013-03-25T14:54:40 < Laurenceb> http://inventionmachine.com/products-and-services/innovation-software/
2013-03-25T14:54:44 < Laurenceb> so much bullshit
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2013-03-25T14:58:05 <+Steffanx> So why post it here Laurenceb ?
2013-03-25T14:58:14 < Laurenceb> for lulz
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2013-03-25T15:08:29 < Robint91> hi all
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2013-03-25T15:16:17 < gxti> Laurenceb url filter is super effective
2013-03-25T15:16:55 < Laurenceb> antilulz
2013-03-25T15:19:19 <+Steffanx> I should write one myself too
2013-03-25T15:19:50 <+Steffanx> Dunno how to write plugins/scripts for this client though
2013-03-25T15:20:38 -!- daku is now known as DaKu
2013-03-25T15:21:33 < qyx> use simple ignore with regexp
2013-03-25T15:22:15 <+Steffanx> This client isn't that fancy qyx
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2013-03-25T15:27:46 < Blok> I try to put my stm32f100x into standby, but it seems to consume 200uA. Do I need to perform any operations prior to get the uC into the lowest sleep mode?
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2013-03-25T15:28:34 < Blok> As of now I power the backup registers and RTC.
2013-03-25T15:28:41 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb how can you work this matlab?! It is slow and sucks ass :P
2013-03-25T15:29:00 < Laurenceb> i dont
2013-03-25T15:29:04 < Laurenceb> i use octave
2013-03-25T15:29:08 <+Steffanx> even slower
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2013-03-25T15:29:26 < Laurenceb> Blok: doesnt sound right
2013-03-25T15:29:41 < Laurenceb> should be <2uA or something like that
2013-03-25T15:29:49 <+Steffanx> for f1?
2013-03-25T15:29:59 < Laurenceb> maybe a little more
2013-03-25T15:30:26 < Blok> Laurenceb: Yes, a little more due to RTC and Backup, but not that much more
2013-03-25T15:32:43 < Blok> The program works exacly as it should with the RTC waking the uC (as I have configured it). The uC drops considerably in current consumption when in standby, but not as much as I want (< 5uA).
2013-03-25T15:33:43 < Laurenceb> maybe leakage somewhere?
2013-03-25T15:33:50 < Laurenceb> like a vreg or something
2013-03-25T15:35:57 < Blok> I measured the circuit w/o the stm and it consumes less than I am able to measure.
2013-03-25T15:36:28 < BJfreeman> for shut down should not have linear reguilators.
2013-03-25T15:36:57 < Blok> this is sleep with deepsleep set as in standby
2013-03-25T15:37:04 < Blok> lowest power save
2013-03-25T15:37:17 < Blok> only the backup regs (if enabled) are saved
2013-03-25T15:38:02 < BJfreeman> speaking outside the Uc the Vregs that supply the Uc should not be linear
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2013-03-25T15:39:38 < gxti> linears have lower quiescent current so it's not the dumbest choice
2013-03-25T15:39:56 < gxti> maybe one of each if you want to squeeze out every last watt
2013-03-25T15:39:59 < Blok> I use a DC/DC, but I measure the current to the stm32.
2013-03-25T15:40:04 < Laurenceb> the tests still dont rule out regulator leakage
2013-03-25T15:40:20 < Laurenceb> post a schematic
2013-03-25T15:41:06 < BJfreeman> dc/dc works
2013-03-25T15:43:44 < Blok> Laurenceb: I cannot do that at my current location, but what specific detail are you looking for?
2013-03-25T15:44:09 < Laurenceb> how many vregs do you have?
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2013-03-25T15:44:26 < Laurenceb> are there split rails?
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2013-03-25T15:46:10 < Blok> Laurenceb: Just one DC/DC, one rail (very simple circuit).
2013-03-25T15:46:17 < Laurenceb> hmm
2013-03-25T15:46:26 < Laurenceb> DC/DC sounds prone to leakage
2013-03-25T15:46:35 < Laurenceb> wait
2013-03-25T15:46:52 < Laurenceb> its going to have really high quiescent current
2013-03-25T15:47:00 < Robint91> I use matlab and I proud to use it
2013-03-25T15:47:09 < Laurenceb> i use DC/DC and ldo on my board
2013-03-25T15:47:14 < Laurenceb> switch between them
2013-03-25T15:47:22 < Laurenceb> octave wtf
2013-03-25T15:48:36 < Blok> I use this DC/DC http://octopart.com/tps62056dgs-texas+instruments-439830 connected as the default schematic.
2013-03-25T15:49:25 < Blok> but, I am measuring the current after it as in DC/DC -> measurement -> stm32.
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2013-03-25T16:09:46 < Laurenceb> dunno then
2013-03-25T16:10:07 < Laurenceb> maybe something with the reset pin or something
2013-03-25T16:14:34 < Blok> Laurenceb: There is nothing I need to do before entering standby, right? Such as shut down clocks or the like.
2013-03-25T16:14:43 < Laurenceb> no
2013-03-25T16:15:21 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32InertialMonitor/blob/master/pwr.c
2013-03-25T16:16:09 < Blok> Yeah, I also disabled the wake up pin
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2013-03-25T16:16:19 < Blok> What current do you get?
2013-03-25T16:16:57 < Laurenceb> 50uA or so
2013-03-25T16:17:00 < Blok> Internal or external LS clock?
2013-03-25T16:17:05 < Blok> from the uC?
2013-03-25T16:17:09 < Laurenceb> but theres a lipo charger and tons of stuff
2013-03-25T16:17:15 < Blok> ahh
2013-03-25T16:17:15 < Laurenceb> cant measure just the micro
2013-03-25T16:17:29 < Laurenceb> mcu is off a 12mhz xtal
2013-03-25T16:18:49 < Blok> What about the low speed?
2013-03-25T16:19:04 < Laurenceb> rtc is running all the time
2013-03-25T16:19:28 < Blok> internal?
2013-03-25T16:19:32 < Laurenceb> huh
2013-03-25T16:19:40 < Laurenceb> its a 32khz xtal
2013-03-25T16:19:49 < Blok> ahh, I use the internal
2013-03-25T16:20:04 < Laurenceb> theres you current
2013-03-25T16:20:14 < Laurenceb> it'll be the RC oscillator
2013-03-25T16:20:52 < Blok> really? is it that hungry?
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2013-03-25T16:22:25 < Laurenceb> probably
2013-03-25T16:23:04 < Blok> that could be the reason, thank you! Looking for a figure now.
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2013-03-25T16:24:49 < Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/18/frytard_photo_caption_competition/
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2013-03-25T16:31:38 < Blok> LSI power consumtion typ 0.65 uA, max 1.2 uA. So compared to LSE it is more, but not much in my case.
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2013-03-25T16:40:51 < Laurenceb> odd then
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2013-03-25T16:44:09 < Blok> It is assuring that I seem to do the stanby correct (as your example does pretty much the same). Again thanks!
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2013-03-25T17:01:31 < Laurenceb> http://www.maximintegrated.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/7982
2013-03-25T17:03:18 <+Steffanx> wonderful
2013-03-25T17:03:56 < gxti> magnificent
2013-03-25T17:04:23 <+Steffanx> Agreed
2013-03-25T17:05:51 < Laurenceb> 2dps max drift
2013-03-25T17:05:55 < Laurenceb> fifo and spi
2013-03-25T17:06:00 < Laurenceb> is the gyro from god
2013-03-25T17:10:27 <+Steffanx> I love it when example code from a library is terribly wrong ( or just wrong in the case where it's used )
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2013-03-25T17:18:17 <+Steffanx> dirty_d - Last seen  : Mar 13 20:14:32 2013 (1 week, 4 days, 19:03:23 ago .. Killed by his quadcopter?
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2013-03-25T18:05:04 < Robint91> what is the fastest way to get a wifi connection to a stm32?
2013-03-25T18:05:48 < Laurenceb> duck tape
2013-03-25T18:10:00 <+Steffanx> It's duct tape you uklander..
2013-03-25T18:11:49 <+Steffanx> Crappy matlab, why you hang all the time?
2013-03-25T18:14:49 < jon1012> Robint91, crappy microchip module :)
2013-03-25T18:15:28 <+Steffanx> Doesn't TI have this new chip?
2013-03-25T18:19:28 < Laurenceb> oh yeah
2013-03-25T18:21:03 < zyp> Robint91, fastest wrt. required effort or wifi speed? :p
2013-03-25T18:21:48 <+Steffanx> fastest way .. so effort mr zyp
2013-03-25T18:21:58 < zyp> but that's no fun
2013-03-25T18:22:12 < zyp> I believe wlan chipsets with SDIO would give the fastest connection
2013-03-25T18:22:30 <+Steffanx> So that fancy wifi-sdcard?
2013-03-25T18:22:39 <+Steffanx> Eye-Fi ?
2013-03-25T18:22:43 < zyp> no
2013-03-25T18:22:52 < zyp> that's not SDIO
2013-03-25T18:23:03 < zyp> that's SD memory
2013-03-25T18:23:32 <+Steffanx> That's only one way uh?
2013-03-25T18:23:36 < zyp> however, back in the PDA days you could get SDIO modules with wifi chipsets
2013-03-25T18:24:04 < zyp> i.e. they use SDIO signalling and fit in SD slots, but are not memory cards
2013-03-25T18:24:29 < zyp> and the standard is still used for wifi chipsets
2013-03-25T18:24:44 < zyp> I know my old phone used SDIO for that
2013-03-25T18:24:50 < zyp> not sure what my current does
2013-03-25T18:25:17 < Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/25/space_hedgehog/
2013-03-25T18:25:28 < Laurenceb> more fail from uk hab scene
2013-03-25T18:26:34 <+Steffanx> I don't see the fail. Seriously Laurenceb, I though i was mr Pessimism, but you are REALLY worse
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2013-03-25T18:28:22 <+Steffanx> Anyway, that eye-FI is still SDIO not zyp ?
2013-03-25T18:30:10 <+Steffanx> nevermind
2013-03-25T18:31:03 < zyp> SDIO has multiple meanings :p
2013-03-25T18:31:29 < zyp> Steffanx, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#SDIO
2013-03-25T18:32:31 <+Steffanx> jeje, i found wikipedia myself :)
2013-03-25T18:44:28 < Robint91> jon1012, zyp to place on a pcb
2013-03-25T18:44:36 < Robint91> possilbe a small production run
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2013-03-25T18:48:25 < zyp> Robint91, as I said, you get chipsets with SDIO signalling, that you can place on a pcb and hook up to the stm32's SDIO peripheral
2013-03-25T18:49:04 < Robint91> zyp, I will look in to it
2013-03-25T18:49:32 < zyp> it would probably not be the simplest solution, but I think it would be a pretty decent one
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2013-03-25T18:56:06 < Robint91> http://www.murata-ws.com/wi-fi.htm
2013-03-25T18:56:08 < Robint91> seems nice
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2013-03-25T18:58:01 < zyp> ah, complete modules
2013-03-25T18:58:34 < zyp> and most are SDIO, yes
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2013-03-25T18:59:39 < Robint91> zyp, those are, I think, the most easiest way to give a board wifi
2013-03-25T19:01:53 < zyp> easiest would be one of those complete stack chips
2013-03-25T19:02:17 < zyp> when thinking from a software perspective
2013-03-25T19:02:28 < zyp> but then you lose flexibility
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2013-03-25T19:10:04 < zyp> that VK module seems nice if SPI is fast enough for your needs
2013-03-25T19:10:57 < zyp> the TN module requires 1.8V IO, which complicates things
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2013-03-25T19:11:44 < Robint91> zyp, I only need a NTP client and a webserver
2013-03-25T19:14:20 <+Steffanx> Robint91, go with the CC3000 :)
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2013-03-25T19:15:59 <+Steffanx> i guess this is not for your vmarker Robint91 ?
2013-03-25T19:16:26 < Robint91> Steffanx, nah, something else
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2013-03-25T19:24:14  * Tectu jabs jpa- 
2013-03-25T19:24:33  * jpa- resets
2013-03-25T19:24:39 -!- rlc_ is now known as rlc
2013-03-25T19:24:46 <+Steffanx> *Tectu awesomely jabs jpa-
2013-03-25T19:25:01 < Tectu> Steffanx is awesomely helpful
2013-03-25T19:25:31 < jpa-> my awesome circuit awesomely crashes
2013-03-25T19:25:36  * Steffanx awesomely thinks he doesnt give a shit
2013-03-25T19:25:58 < gxti> rude. yet awesome.
2013-03-25T19:26:02 -!- elektrinis [circuit@82-135-241-134.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: pokðt]
2013-03-25T19:26:04  * Tectu thinks that jpa is awesomely rude today
2013-03-25T19:26:26 < jpa-> what? :(
2013-03-25T19:26:30  * zyp thought Steffanx was the rude one
2013-03-25T19:26:32 < Tectu> Steffanx,, not jpa up there
2013-03-25T19:26:41  * Tectu is awesomely sorry for the mistake
2013-03-25T19:26:56 < jpa-> i got 150e gift card today for being rude to my coworkers
2013-03-25T19:27:05 <+Steffanx> Yay
2013-03-25T19:27:05 < Tectu> lol what?
2013-03-25T19:27:16 < Tectu> e as in € ?
2013-03-25T19:27:20 <+Steffanx> of course
2013-03-25T19:27:24 < Tectu> wtf?
2013-03-25T19:27:25 <+Steffanx> finlanders have euros
2013-03-25T19:28:29 < jpa-> yes
2013-03-25T19:28:32 < jpa-> we use euros here
2013-03-25T19:29:11 < gxti> i don't think the euros were the wtf part
2013-03-25T19:29:49 < Tectu> gxti seems to be a very smart guy
2013-03-25T19:29:57 <+Steffanx> seems..
2013-03-25T19:32:40 < jpa-> it's a gift card to a computer store.. but i don't know if i need more RAM anymore
2013-03-25T19:32:52 < Tectu> this shall be a prison in norway they say  http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/6891124_460s_v1.jpg
2013-03-25T19:32:59 < jpa-> now that i put all of my swap on a ramdisk, swapping has not hurt performance anymore
2013-03-25T19:33:02 < Tectu> jpa-, why do you randomly get 150€ ?
2013-03-25T19:33:14 < jpa-> it was an award for being rude
2013-03-25T19:33:41 < jpa-> Tectu: did you know that in finland, the prisoners get vacation from prison?
2013-03-25T19:34:01 <+Steffanx> Does everyone from finland is called Kalle, jpa- ?! ( except you )
2013-03-25T19:34:15 < jpa-> only the girls
2013-03-25T19:34:26 < zyp> Tectu, sounds about right
2013-03-25T19:34:38 <+Steffanx> jpa- lies
2013-03-25T19:35:04 < Tectu> zyp, o=
2013-03-25T19:35:07 < Tectu> o0
2013-03-25T19:35:22 < zyp> Tectu, anything wrong with it?
2013-03-25T19:35:29 < Tectu> yes
2013-03-25T19:35:31 < gxti> they're not all like that apparently :p
2013-03-25T19:35:33 < Laurenceb> wow im going to prison in norway now
2013-03-25T19:35:36 < Laurenceb> looks awesome
2013-03-25T19:35:46 < Tectu> Laurenceb, you can fap there a lot
2013-03-25T19:37:05 <+Steffanx> "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." .. my new favourite sentence
2013-03-25T19:37:14 < jpa-> zyp: do you keep girls and boys in the same prison like in the 2nd lowest photo?
2013-03-25T19:37:56 < zyp> unsure, might be an employee
2013-03-25T19:38:22 < jpa-> maybe
2013-03-25T19:38:51 < Tectu> would still rape
2013-03-25T19:39:10 < Laurenceb> O_o
2013-03-25T19:39:23 < gxti> heh, you even made Laurenceb cringe
2013-03-25T19:39:26 < gxti> congrats
2013-03-25T19:39:26 < Laurenceb> Tectus going to prison 4 sure
2013-03-25T19:39:41 < zyp> Tectu, treating people like shit in prison usually turns out to be unwise the day you have to let them out again
2013-03-25T19:39:52 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb Ill help you to stalk zyp
2013-03-25T19:39:58 < Tectu> zyp, interesting
2013-03-25T19:40:14 < Tectu> Laurenceb, is /b/ down? getting bad gateway
2013-03-25T19:40:22 < Tectu> Laurenceb, back up
2013-03-25T19:40:27 < Laurenceb> <Tectu> brb prison vacation
2013-03-25T19:40:31 <+Steffanx> Not the first time you say that Tectu
2013-03-25T19:40:55 < jpa-> is prison vacation a vacation in prison or vacation from prison? both could happen.
2013-03-25T19:41:07 <+Steffanx> Man, google still doesnt know what a blaxter ratio is
2013-03-25T19:42:08 < jpa-> btw, in finland they have a therapy where they put rapists (like Tectu) and pedophiles in the same group and have them complain about each other
2013-03-25T19:42:22 < Tectu> jpa-, lol what?
2013-03-25T19:42:49 < jpa-> "Tectu, you are disgusting, whereas the sex i had with that child was entirely consentual!"
2013-03-25T19:42:52 <+Steffanx> Also sounds perfect for Laurenceb
2013-03-25T19:43:19 < jpa-> oh.. he might be too weird for the finnish prison system
2013-03-25T19:43:39 < jpa-> he would be extradited to uk
2013-03-25T19:43:49 < gxti> or just decapitated immediately, for everyone's safety
2013-03-25T19:43:49 < qyx> swapping on ramdisk?
2013-03-25T19:43:52 < Tectu> jpa-, and you guys get good results with that?
2013-03-25T19:43:58 < qyx> isn't it weird?
2013-03-25T19:43:58 <+Steffanx> qyx, ?!
2013-03-25T19:44:06 < jpa-> qyx: works great :)
2013-03-25T19:44:11 < Tectu> jpa-, they get some bad times when a guy who rapes children comes in
2013-03-25T19:44:14 < zyp> jpa-, as a joke? :p
2013-03-25T19:44:19 < Tectu> qyx, I do the same
2013-03-25T19:44:19 < gxti> Tectu: whatever happens at least they can say they do better than USA
2013-03-25T19:44:23 < jpa-> zyp: zram :)
2013-03-25T19:44:25 < qyx> jpa-: what about disabling swap completely?
2013-03-25T19:44:33 < Tectu> gxti, everyone does better
2013-03-25T19:44:39 < gxti> exactly
2013-03-25T19:44:41 < zyp> ah
2013-03-25T19:44:44 < zyp> compressed
2013-03-25T19:44:50 < zyp> then it makes sort of sense
2013-03-25T19:44:59 <+Steffanx> Whats wrong with guantanamo bay gxti / Tectu ?!
2013-03-25T19:45:02 < jpa-> seems to compress down to 20%
2013-03-25T19:45:14 < qyx> but why, ram is cheap nowadays
2013-03-25T19:45:15 < jpa-> and with modern processor, decompression takes very little time
2013-03-25T19:45:19 < zyp> qyx, agreed
2013-03-25T19:45:48 < jpa-> yeah, could probably put in 4 GB more.. but there is limits how much ram you can get into an ultraportable laptop
2013-03-25T19:46:02 < zyp> :)
2013-03-25T19:46:11 < Tectu> quite happy with my 16gig here
2013-03-25T19:46:15 <+Steffanx> jpa-, .. when you need more you need another laptop
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2013-03-25T19:46:30 < zyp> hmm, this machine is actually using 773M of swap now
2013-03-25T19:46:38 < zyp> but then it only has 4G of RAM
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2013-03-25T19:46:50 <+Steffanx> Not on your big ass os x machine anymore zyp ?
2013-03-25T19:46:57 < zyp> no, I'm in oslo
2013-03-25T19:47:26 < jpa-> 4 gb ram, using currently 1.4 gb swap in ram
2013-03-25T19:47:59 < zyp> I'm swapping to ssd here, so it's not very noticeable :p
2013-03-25T19:48:05 <+Steffanx> I've no idea here.. os x with its weird memory management
2013-03-25T19:49:00 < jpa-> yeah, i have 1 GB of ssd swap after the zram runs out
2013-03-25T19:49:18 < jpa-> then it is off to regular hd.. slooooow
2013-03-25T19:49:52 <+Steffanx> Why only 1GB of ssd swap?
2013-03-25T19:49:59 < jpa-> only 24GB of ssd
2013-03-25T19:50:00 <+Steffanx> Just use the entire ssd
2013-03-25T19:50:02 <+Steffanx> oh
2013-03-25T19:50:59 <+Steffanx> Reminds me of the fact that i need a new backup disk
2013-03-25T19:51:01 < zyp> OS X is scaling swap size automatically as needed
2013-03-25T19:51:13 <+Steffanx> 140mb here now..
2013-03-25T19:51:25 <+Steffanx> *MB
2013-03-25T19:52:16 <+Steffanx> Isn't a page-out something that is written to the swap/disk?
2013-03-25T19:52:21 < jpa-> zyp: does it scale it back if you need more space on the disk? :)
2013-03-25T19:52:52 <+Steffanx> Full disk + os x is isn't a good combination anyway. It becomes VERY sluggish :)
2013-03-25T19:53:46 < zyp> jpa-, it's freed up as you reduce your memory usage
2013-03-25T19:56:03 <+Steffanx> So zyp is with his folks?
2013-03-25T19:56:10 <+Steffanx> How wonderful
2013-03-25T19:56:40 < zyp> nah, I'm staying at a friend
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2013-03-25T19:56:48 < zyp> we're flying to tokyo tomorrow
2013-03-25T19:57:04 <+Steffanx> Going to visit dongs now?
2013-03-25T19:57:26 < zyp> nah, he lives too far away
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2013-03-25T19:58:07 < zyp> not planning on travelling very far away from tokyo this time
2013-03-25T20:00:03 <+Steffanx> One week in jappieland?
2013-03-25T20:00:25 <+Steffanx> *jappy
2013-03-25T20:00:34 < zyp> two
2013-03-25T20:00:47 < jpa-> why doesn't anyone travel to jpapieland?
2013-03-25T20:00:53 <+Steffanx> Whoa, what a luxury
2013-03-25T20:02:28 < jpa-> though i'll travel to germany next week \o/
2013-03-25T20:02:51 <+Steffanx> Going to visit erlkoenig?
2013-03-25T20:04:04 < jpa-> if he steps along my path
2013-03-25T20:04:24 <+Steffanx> Ah, i didn't even know i also have holidays/vacation next week
2013-03-25T20:05:05 < jpa-> maybe you'll travel to germany for a day to see me
2013-03-25T20:05:09 <+Steffanx> oh, i dont
2013-03-25T20:07:30 <+Steffanx> Where in germany jpa- ?
2013-03-25T20:09:26 < jpa-> braunsweig
2013-03-25T20:10:21 <+Steffanx> only 350km away from erlkoenig
2013-03-25T20:10:56 <+Steffanx> oh, and only ~315km away from me
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2013-03-25T20:12:21 < zyp> better go say hi when you have the chance
2013-03-25T20:12:58 <+Steffanx> 310km is like the from north to sound dutchland. Which is WAAAY to far for this guy
2013-03-25T20:13:18 < jpa-> small small guy in a small small country
2013-03-25T20:13:56 <+Steffanx> in a small small village
2013-03-25T20:15:01 < jpa-> i'll visit you sometime.. too bad i don't have any other friends in holland anymore
2013-03-25T20:15:45 <+Steffanx> Whoa, my poor pc is letting me down
2013-03-25T20:16:23 < qyx> braunsweig? where is it?
2013-03-25T20:16:28 < qyx> google doesnt know it
2013-03-25T20:17:09 <+Steffanx> Here google knows
2013-03-25T20:17:16 <+Steffanx> in the center of germany
2013-03-25T20:17:48 < jpa-> could be brunswick also
2013-03-25T20:18:03 < jpa-> i'll find out once i get there
2013-03-25T20:18:14 <+Steffanx> https://maps.google.com/maps?q=braunschweig&ll=52.268157,10.546875&spn=8.461691,24.038086&hnear=Braunschweig,+Nedersaksen,+Duitsland&t=h&z=6 ?
2013-03-25T20:18:45 < jpa-> yeah that is were i'm going
2013-03-25T20:18:51 < jpa-> i hope my sister lives there
2013-03-25T20:18:58 <+Steffanx> Who knows
2013-03-25T20:19:08 < qyx> brunswick?
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2013-03-25T20:21:01 <+Steffanx> Braunschweig :)
2013-03-25T20:21:19 <+Steffanx> Germans use sch for every s :)
2013-03-25T20:21:42 <+Steffanx> In germany they write Schteffanx :)
2013-03-25T20:21:58 < gxti> that's schtupid
2013-03-25T20:22:09 < emeb> and shcilly
2013-03-25T20:22:18 < qyx> yep, if i search for braunschweig it directs me somewhere near brunswick
2013-03-25T20:22:22 < qyx> dont know why
2013-03-25T20:22:22 < gxti> and really aschinine
2013-03-25T20:22:36 < jpa-> maybe we could end this ßillyness
2013-03-25T20:22:46 <+Steffanx> Only german words/names qyx :)
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2013-03-25T20:23:13 <+Steffanx> Deutschland :D
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2013-03-25T20:24:06 <+Steffanx> Yøu nøw want nørwegian style jpa- ?
2013-03-25T20:24:12 < emeb> what a load of scheiß
2013-03-25T20:24:22 < qyx> isn't it renamed or what?
2013-03-25T20:24:26 < qyx> if you go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunschweig
2013-03-25T20:24:31 < qyx> and click that location on the right
2013-03-25T20:24:45 < qyx> all mapservers have brunswick except openstreetmap
2013-03-25T20:24:57 <+Steffanx> it has an english name
2013-03-25T20:25:05 <+Steffanx> Just like The Hague in dutchland
2013-03-25T20:25:11 <+Steffanx> which is the english name for den haag
2013-03-25T20:25:28 <+Steffanx> "English: Brunswick" ):
2013-03-25T20:26:27 < qyx> oh o\
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2013-03-25T20:26:46 < emeb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunschweiger <- mmm... yummy liverwurst
2013-03-25T20:27:35 < jpa-> maksamakkara in finnish, it's yummy
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2013-03-25T21:38:13 < emeb> Byzantine Generals! http://lwn.net/Articles/540368/
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2013-03-25T21:38:55 <+Steffanx> emeb, likes liverwurst?!
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2013-03-25T21:39:10 < emeb> Steffanx: Yes! (in moderation).
2013-03-25T21:39:28 <+Steffanx> The maksamakkara on that photo doesn't look like the average maksamakkara in dutchland jpa-
2013-03-25T21:40:32 <+Steffanx> http://www.rookworst.eu/files/_DSC5541.jpg that is what it should look like :D
2013-03-25T21:40:57 < emeb> with big chunks of fat in it?
2013-03-25T21:41:16 <+Steffanx> Maybe less fat, but bigger at least some chunks of liver
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2013-03-25T21:42:02  * Tectu farts at jpa- 
2013-03-25T21:42:14 <+Steffanx> *awesomely
2013-03-25T21:43:36 < Tectu> >.<
2013-03-25T21:43:42 < emeb> "now go away or I shall taunt you a second time"
2013-03-25T21:44:30 <+Steffanx> emeb is into monty python?
2013-03-25T21:44:36  * jpa- jabs some braunschweiger up Tectu's pipeline
2013-03-25T21:45:02 < emeb> Steffanx: Of course - aren't all right-thinking people into Monty Pytyon?
2013-03-25T21:45:11 < Tectu> how comes that Laurenceb is not homosexual?
2013-03-25T21:45:22 <+Steffanx> How you know he is not?
2013-03-25T21:45:38 -!- Bird|ghosted is now known as HTT-Bird
2013-03-25T21:45:43 < Laurenceb_> Tectu is bachelor toad
2013-03-25T21:45:53 <+Steffanx> Im usually not into old crap emeb
2013-03-25T21:46:01 <+Steffanx> I'm left-thinking
2013-03-25T21:46:15 < jpa-> Tectu: he has so girly name that he is not sure whether he should be lesbian or gay
2013-03-25T21:46:36 <+Steffanx> Tectu sounds like a japanese animé name, indeed
2013-03-25T21:46:46 < emeb> Hmmm... "old crap". Judgy much?
2013-03-25T21:47:02 <+Steffanx> Realistic, yes
2013-03-25T21:47:06 < jpa-> monty python is old crap, indeed
2013-03-25T21:47:29 < Tectu> jpa-, well
2013-03-25T21:47:36 < Tectu> dat hand soldering job   http://www.abload.de/img/img_00000026nxx4i.jpg
2013-03-25T21:47:56 <+Steffanx> emeb, i think i'm going to cross the line now: I'm not that into starwars and/or startrek either :P
2013-03-25T21:48:08 < Robint91> Tectu, wtf is that?
2013-03-25T21:48:08 < jpa-> Tectu: looks easy
2013-03-25T21:48:13 < Tectu> jpa-, it is!
2013-03-25T21:48:16 < Tectu> Robint91, a PCB?
2013-03-25T21:48:18 < emeb> Steffanx: Oooo - baring it all!
2013-03-25T21:48:26 < Robint91> Tectu, overkill ufl connectors
2013-03-25T21:48:45 < emeb> Steffanx: Probably don't like LOTR either?
2013-03-25T21:48:51 <+Steffanx> I do like that
2013-03-25T21:48:58 <+Steffanx> Except for the last one.. that hobbit movie
2013-03-25T21:49:02 < Tectu> Robint91, not overkill
2013-03-25T21:49:03 < Robint91> Steffanx, game of thrones?
2013-03-25T21:49:06 < emeb> So not a complete iconoclast.
2013-03-25T21:49:11 < Tectu> Robint91, ufl are quite cheap, compared to SMA
2013-03-25T21:49:11 <+Steffanx> but that is perhaps because my eyes are not made for 3d
2013-03-25T21:49:12 < jpa-> Tectu: though might have needed more bypass caps and a bit closer to the chip..
2013-03-25T21:49:16 < Robint91> Tectu, what is the purpose
2013-03-25T21:49:43 < Tectu> jpa-, will do the in the next version
2013-03-25T21:49:50 <+Steffanx> Robint91, of course
2013-03-25T21:49:53 < Tectu> Robint91, transmit a signal from one PCB to the next
2013-03-25T21:50:02 <+Steffanx> Yay
2013-03-25T21:50:08 < Robint91> Tectu, what is that chip? and at what speeds?
2013-03-25T21:50:11 < jpa-> that's the dac, right?
2013-03-25T21:50:18 < Tectu> Robint91, 100MHz max and it's an DAC
2013-03-25T21:50:29 <+Steffanx> but what is the purpose of everything Tectu ?
2013-03-25T21:50:36 < Tectu> Steffanx, raping Laurenceb_
2013-03-25T21:50:41 < Tectu> why don't you think yourself man?
2013-03-25T21:50:50 <+Steffanx> You are not being helpful Tectu
2013-03-25T21:50:51 < Robint91> Tectu, *cringe*
2013-03-25T21:51:05 < Tectu> it's a part of my signal generator
2013-03-25T21:51:09 <+Steffanx> I can think of 1000 things Tectu, but that is useless
2013-03-25T21:51:25 <+Steffanx> As only one of the 1000 things will be the one you use it for
2013-03-25T21:51:27 < Robint91> Tectu, decoupling?
2013-03-25T21:51:32 < Tectu> Robint91, how about no?
2013-03-25T21:51:40 < Tectu> Robint91, it's DC to x MHz, no decoupling there.
2013-03-25T21:51:45 < Robint91> Tectu, output filters for the DAC
2013-03-25T21:51:49 < Robint91> Tectu, -_-
2013-03-25T21:52:05 <+Steffanx> Which DAC is that Tectu ?
2013-03-25T21:52:08 < Tectu> Robint91, I do have a filter
2013-03-25T21:52:09 < Robint91> Tectu, how much samples per seconde are you feeding it?
2013-03-25T21:52:11 <+Steffanx> fancy phone photo is crappy
2013-03-25T21:52:13 < Tectu> Robint91, it's the input filter of the PA :D
2013-03-25T21:52:27 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/Coi/plain   no-one of us is helpful, but emeb is the only one who knows it
2013-03-25T21:52:32 < Tectu> Robint91, currently the DAC clock is set to 140MHz, will rise it (Design allows it)
2013-03-25T21:52:34 < Tectu> Steffanx, ADV7123
2013-03-25T21:52:56 < jpa-> also the rate of being not helpful is rising rapidly
2013-03-25T21:53:02 <+Steffanx> jpa- go futher back in the past .. tectu started it for sure
2013-03-25T21:53:03 < jpa-> accelerated global helplessness
2013-03-25T21:53:13 < jpa-> Steffanx: no it was you
2013-03-25T21:53:20 <+Steffanx> No it was not
2013-03-25T21:53:22 <+Steffanx> me
2013-03-25T21:53:44 < Tectu> http://www.abload.de/img/img_00000043e7fzg.jpg
2013-03-25T21:53:45 < jpa-> oh well there is this one which could be Tectu in disguise:  2012-08-13T08:26:02 < feurig> when someone says their cowworker is upset and your advice ist to rape her I dont see that as being helpful in any way
2013-03-25T21:53:58 < Tectu> and no, I did not target in getting a very small PCB area.
2013-03-25T21:54:02 < Robint91> Tectu, seriously, digital signals at 140MHz aren't easy
2013-03-25T21:54:14 < Tectu> jpa-, lol'd
2013-03-25T21:54:20 < Tectu> Robint91, yes, I know.
2013-03-25T21:54:23 <+Steffanx> ill check my sources jpa-
2013-03-25T21:54:27 < Tectu> Robint91, I'm working with that since months
2013-03-25T21:54:27 < Robint91> Tectu, how many bits is that dac
2013-03-25T21:54:41 < jpa-> Tectu: your boards are funny looking :)
2013-03-25T21:54:55 < Tectu> and @ Robint91, jpa-, Steffanx and all the others, I'm so sorry that I am new to this stuff and that I don't have the super doper knowledge of how to doing it right in the first version as you guys - fuck yourself.
2013-03-25T21:55:04 < Tectu> jpa-, how comes? which aspect?
2013-03-25T21:55:08 < Tectu> Robint91, currently 10
2013-03-25T21:55:10 < jpa-> Tectu: so much space :D
2013-03-25T21:55:21 <+Steffanx> jpa-: Feb 24 00:06:17 <Tectu>	Steffanx, you're not helpful
2013-03-25T21:55:29 < Tectu> jpa-, as I said, I didn't try to get small PCBs
2013-03-25T21:55:48 < jpa-> Steffanx: didn't have the "being"!
2013-03-25T21:55:53 <+Steffanx> Tectu, fuck you! I never said anything negative about your awesome project
2013-03-25T21:56:22 < gxti> shhh
2013-03-25T21:56:23 < gxti> it'll be okay.
2013-03-25T21:56:24 < Robint91> ^ this
2013-03-25T21:56:45 < jpa-> Tectu: also makes them look quite neat in some sections.. but you could really use a ground plane somewhere
2013-03-25T21:56:54 < Tectu> jpa-, I totally agree
2013-03-25T21:57:06 < Tectu> jpa-, I was in such a hurry. Had to design and build that PCB in 1.5 days
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2013-03-25T21:57:39 <+Steffanx> I thought it was for your own project Tectu
2013-03-25T21:57:44 <+Steffanx> uni project with deadline?
2013-03-25T21:57:45 < Tectu> Steffanx, it is.
2013-03-25T21:57:52 < Tectu> Steffanx, yeah, deadline tomorrow 1200
2013-03-25T21:57:56 <+Steffanx> oops
2013-03-25T21:58:00 < Tectu> jpa-, here some ground plane:  http://www.abload.de/img/analog2_tophgeac.jpg
2013-03-25T21:58:10 < Tectu> Steffanx, I'll keep the project going for my self from now on so I got time to do it right
2013-03-25T21:58:22 < Robint91> Tectu, that I do like
2013-03-25T21:58:24 < jpa-> ground plane with huuuuge gaps :D
2013-03-25T21:58:37 < Tectu> jpa-, I wasn't sure about how to connect the RF-Frame to the ground plane, so I decided to do some single connections there
2013-03-25T21:58:42 < Tectu> jpa-, is that a good idea or not? ^^
2013-03-25T21:58:47 < jpa-> very bad
2013-03-25T21:58:53 < Tectu> jpa-, how to do it right?
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2013-03-25T21:59:04 < jpa-> "it's difficult" :)
2013-03-25T21:59:22 < jpa-> try to make the gaps as short as possible
2013-03-25T21:59:24 < Robint91> Tectu, do you own a scope?
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2013-03-25T21:59:39 < Tectu> Robint91, yes, I've also some 50'000$ scopes at work
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2013-03-25T21:59:52 < Tectu> jpa-, the gap between the RF frame and the ground plane?
2013-03-25T22:00:04 < Tectu> jpa-,  why not making it one piece then?
2013-03-25T22:00:07 < Robint91> Tectu, try to measure the supply lines
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2013-03-25T22:00:13 < jpa-> Tectu: no the long traces running in the middle
2013-03-25T22:00:24 < Tectu> jpa-, aaah, that ones
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2013-03-25T22:00:30 < Tectu> jpa-, that are +5V and -5V
2013-03-25T22:00:35 < jpa-> Tectu: and especially the branches to up and down of those.. make the ground plane much less effective
2013-03-25T22:00:37 < Tectu> Robint91, they are quit nice
2013-03-25T22:00:53 < jpa-> Tectu: then you could place some capacitors across them there
2013-03-25T22:01:32 < Tectu> jpa-, good idea!
2013-03-25T22:01:33 <+Steffanx> What do you use to get the data 'into' the DAC Tectu ? FPGA?
2013-03-25T22:01:41 < Tectu> jpa-, well, in fact there are billions of caps on the top layer
2013-03-25T22:01:44 < Tectu> Steffanx, yep, FPGA
2013-03-25T22:01:58 < Tectu> jpa-, I made the ground planes a bit more effective:   http://www.abload.de/img/img_00000035qub50.jpg
2013-03-25T22:01:59 < Tectu> http://www.abload.de/img/img_00000037ray0k.jpg
2013-03-25T22:02:03 < Tectu> jpa-, ^
2013-03-25T22:02:13 < Tectu> copper shielding \o/
2013-03-25T22:02:30 < Robint91> Tectu, what is that PCB?
2013-03-25T22:02:34 < Robint91> Tectu, which FPGA?
2013-03-25T22:02:45 < Tectu> Robint91, a cyclone IV
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2013-03-25T22:04:29 < Laurenceb_> ##stm32-trolling
2013-03-25T22:04:42 < Robint91> Laurenceb_, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=67EovwvJrC0
2013-03-25T22:04:43 <+Steffanx> No one to troll there
2013-03-25T22:05:03 < Laurenceb_> who trolls the trolls
2013-03-25T22:05:25 < Robint91> is the king troll
2013-03-25T22:05:31 <+Steffanx> aren't you more into this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeiv-I19kZU Robint91 ?
2013-03-25T22:05:59 < jpa-> Tectu: that stops emissions from the board, but doesn't fix interference between lines inside it
2013-03-25T22:06:06 < Robint91> Steffanx, OOOOOOOOOOOH    YEEEEAAAAAAAAAAH
2013-03-25T22:06:32 < Tectu> jpa-, I agree
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2013-03-25T22:06:49 < Tectu> jpa-, well, I'll do a new version after this one
2013-03-25T22:06:49 < jpa-> Tectu: and it's not just about having enough caps for keeping the supply stable, but to fix up the broken return path.. though you don't seem to have much ground connections anyway
2013-03-25T22:06:58 < Tectu> jpa-, I'll do A LOT of changes. It's the first time I made anything like that
2013-03-25T22:07:03 < Tectu> jpa-, therefore, a lot of new experiences
2013-03-25T22:07:59 < jpa-> http://www.hottconsultants.com/tips.html  these are a good read
2013-03-25T22:08:13 < Robint91> Steffanx, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxcP7TRY178 <- 6m 56s
2013-03-25T22:08:29 <+Steffanx> you can give links with time you know
2013-03-25T22:08:54 < Tectu> Steffanx, I just learned that yest0rday
2013-03-25T22:09:11 < Robint91> Steffanx, yeah, but the whole vid is okay
2013-03-25T22:09:12 < Tectu> jpa-, will keep that one - thanks!
2013-03-25T22:09:19 < Tectu> Robint91, lol'd
2013-03-25T22:09:19 < Robint91> but exactly that part
2013-03-25T22:09:29 <+Steffanx> uh, wtf is that Robint91 ?!
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2013-03-25T22:09:48 < Robint91> Steffanx, title says it <- "One Hour of Music - Soviet Communist Music"
2013-03-25T22:09:53 < Robint91> Steffanx, what else
2013-03-25T22:09:57 <+Steffanx> Yes i know, but wtf you listen to?
2013-03-25T22:10:02 < Robint91> Steffanx, don't question my musical taste
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2013-03-25T22:10:26 <+Steffanx> I don't here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5uYlI-E9Bw
2013-03-25T22:11:58 < Robint91> Steffanx, ah K3 with the bitch of the netherlands
2013-03-25T22:12:09 <+Steffanx> They are from belgium...
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2013-03-25T22:12:37 <+Steffanx> ( they = the ones in the video )
2013-03-25T22:12:37 < Robint91> Steffanx, but there is now a bitch from you country
2013-03-25T22:12:54 < Robint91> Steffanx, don't care, they don't exist anymore
2013-03-25T22:12:56 < Robint91> in that format
2013-03-25T22:13:06 <+Steffanx> but you are still a fan
2013-03-25T22:13:13 < Robint91> -_____-
2013-03-25T22:15:25 < Robint91> Steffanx, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxcP7TRY178#t=51m36s
2013-03-25T22:15:56 <+Steffanx> I know that song from something
2013-03-25T22:17:28 < Robint91> Steffanx, one ping, ..., one ping only
2013-03-25T22:17:58 <+Steffanx> How wonderful how this map http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map ( zoomed in) can make hang my pc completely
2013-03-25T22:18:43 <+Steffanx> Breaks even the basic functions like changing the volume with my keyboard
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2013-03-25T22:19:27 < Robint91> Steffanx, perpare for 1SQ
2013-03-25T22:19:51 <+Steffanx> The what?
2013-03-25T22:20:02 < Robint91> -_-
2013-03-25T22:20:43 < Robint91> Steffanx, son i'm disappoint, https://static.prtst.net/asset-proxy/32ffa5d84a7976971364ff62814f43daeb112b18/68747470733a2f2f6c68362e676f6f676c6575736572636f6e74656e742e636f6d2f2d4c473151717368387378512f54583667304e346a5746492f41414141414141414145672f5a626a454d3870416e67302f733430302f6b3236393332395f736f6e2d692d616d2d6469736170706f696e742e676966/https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LG1Qqsh8sxQ/TX6g0N4jWFI/AAAAAAAAAEg/ZbjEM8pAng0/s400/k269329_son
2013-03-25T22:20:43 < Robint91> -i-am-disappoint.gif
2013-03-25T22:20:50 < Laurenceb_> lol
2013-03-25T22:20:59 < Tectu> Laurenceb_, what are you wearing?
2013-03-25T22:20:59 < Laurenceb_> i am dissapoint in your url scillz
2013-03-25T22:21:00 < gxti> fascinating
2013-03-25T22:21:02 < Robint91> http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/127/166537-nfnet7yvtozx0cv7ze3mplzpo1_500_super.gif
2013-03-25T22:21:14  * Laurenceb_ runs from horny Tectu
2013-03-25T22:21:29 < Robint91> Laurenceb_, it's url was too epic too not to paste
2013-03-25T22:21:31 <+Steffanx> what mr gxti ?
2013-03-25T22:21:37 < gxti> urls.
2013-03-25T22:21:56 <+Steffanx> but now i still have no idea what you just said mr Robint91
2013-03-25T22:22:59 < Robint91> Steffanx, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4Yw3qU58w4
2013-03-25T22:23:19 < Robint91> Steffanx, good stuff starts around 17s
2013-03-25T22:23:31 <+Steffanx> whatever
2013-03-25T22:23:38 < Tectu> nice linking, Robint91
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2013-03-25T22:23:58 <+Steffanx> Yeah, i bet Robint91 is in gxti url-ignore list too now
2013-03-25T22:24:05 <+Steffanx> +'s
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2013-03-25T22:24:27 < Robint91> Crimson tide + the hunt for the red october > battleship
2013-03-25T22:24:32 < gxti> Steffanx: takes a little more than that
2013-03-25T22:24:41 <+Steffanx> more 4chan less youtube?
2013-03-25T22:24:59 < gxti> Laurenceb_ has worked for decades to perfect his shitposting skills
2013-03-25T22:25:16 < gxti> i couldn't disrespect that by ignoring Robint91 for just one thing!
2013-03-25T22:25:48 <+Steffanx> one thing?!
2013-03-25T22:26:13 <+Steffanx> matlab you suck.. i really should move to python, but than i have to port all the code
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2013-03-25T22:26:58 < Laurenceb_> gxti: true dat
2013-03-25T22:27:20 <+Steffanx> Why you talk dutch-english Laurenceb_ ?
2013-03-25T22:27:32 < Robint91> Steffanx, he is dutch
2013-03-25T22:27:37 <+Steffanx> He is not
2013-03-25T22:27:43 < Robint91> He is
2013-03-25T22:27:47 <+Steffanx> He is not
2013-03-25T22:27:52 < Robint91> He is
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2013-03-25T22:27:57 <+Steffanx> He is from ukland
2013-03-25T22:28:02 < Robint91> He is not
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2013-03-25T22:28:12 <+Steffanx> His last name is really not dutchish
2013-03-25T22:28:26 < Robint91> So ?
2013-03-25T22:28:43 < Laurenceb_> Denmark
2013-03-25T22:28:44 < Robint91> If my last name sounds african
2013-03-25T22:28:44 < emeb> unhelpful emeb is unhelpful.
2013-03-25T22:28:47 < Laurenceb_> n00b
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2013-03-25T22:29:01 < Robint91> am I an african
2013-03-25T22:29:09 <+Steffanx> A white one
2013-03-25T22:29:27 < Laurenceb_> inb4 dongs
2013-03-25T22:29:28 < Robint91> RACIST
2013-03-25T22:29:43 <+Steffanx> I think your last name is flemish
2013-03-25T22:30:09 < emeb> reminds me of a story about a kid in Texas who got in trouble for calling himself "African American" - his parents were white South Africans.
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2013-03-25T22:30:59 < Laurenceb_> Robint91: almost right
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2013-03-25T22:31:19 < Laurenceb_> great grandparents are from Denmark
2013-03-25T22:31:45 <+Steffanx> Meh, enough off topic talk for me today
2013-03-25T22:32:18 < emeb> It's all OT here.
2013-03-25T22:33:01 < Laurenceb_> i can trace my ancestry through google patent search XD
2013-03-25T22:33:23 < emeb> Patented ancestors?
2013-03-25T22:33:38 < Laurenceb_> lol
2013-03-25T22:33:48  * emeb has patents and his dad does too.
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2013-03-25T22:34:12 < Laurenceb_> my great grandfather got his first patent granted at age 11 O_o
2013-03-25T22:34:20 < zyp> emeb's family of inventors
2013-03-25T22:34:23 < emeb> but my grandparents don't have patents.
2013-03-25T22:35:13 < emeb> http://www.google.com/patents?id=XjlpAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
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2013-03-25T22:36:31 <+Steffanx> lol emeb
2013-03-25T22:37:08 <+Steffanx> Why kind of patents do you have emeb ?
2013-03-25T22:37:35 < emeb> stuff like this: http://www.google.com/patents/US8185065?dq=IN+Brombaugh+Eric&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TrVQUdXbJsTrigL-yYDgCQ&ved=0CDMQ6AEwADgU
2013-03-25T22:38:10 < emeb> mostly all RF DSP.
2013-03-25T22:38:27 <+Steffanx> Most of them are from your employee..?
2013-03-25T22:38:33 < emeb> All
2013-03-25T22:38:44 <+Steffanx> Interesting employees you've had
2013-03-25T22:39:08 <+Steffanx> *employers?
2013-03-25T22:39:11 < emeb> yeah
2013-03-25T22:39:12 <+Steffanx> man, english :)
2013-03-25T22:39:25 < emeb> it's a bastard child language.
2013-03-25T22:39:45 < emeb> too many antecedents.
2013-03-25T22:40:00 <+Steffanx> Even Huawei
2013-03-25T22:40:14 < emeb> huh?
2013-03-25T22:40:23 <+Steffanx> nevermind
2013-03-25T22:40:28 <+Steffanx> that document has your name in it meh
2013-03-25T22:40:37 <+Steffanx> sorry
2013-03-25T22:40:40 < emeb> Oh - citations.
2013-03-25T22:40:41 <+Steffanx> im sleepy
2013-03-25T22:40:45 <+Steffanx> You cited from them
2013-03-25T22:40:46 <+Steffanx> meh
2013-03-25T22:41:00 < emeb> yep, and they cited us, etc.
2013-03-25T22:41:10 < emeb> Patents are crazy.
2013-03-25T22:41:38 <+Steffanx> For sure
2013-03-25T22:42:09 < emeb> Most of them are BS, just clubs to wield when corporations are doing battle.
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2013-03-25T22:55:05 < Laurenceb_> http://www.directorypatent.com/GB/GB117160.html
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2013-03-25T23:05:06 < Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=httuIXjGz0Y
2013-03-25T23:05:08 < Laurenceb_> i lolled
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2013-03-25T23:23:20 -!- daku is now known as DaKu
2013-03-25T23:30:43 < emeb> she should do a youtube on "using twitter to lose your job"
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2013-03-25T23:32:45 < Erlkoenig> how many words can one loose about plugging in a cable??
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2013-03-25T23:41:58 < ds2> wow... real mixers are $$
2013-03-25T23:42:35 < emeb> define "real mixer"
2013-03-25T23:42:55 < ds2> VHF and better, less crappy then a NE602
2013-03-25T23:43:23 < emeb> what's wrong with the NE602
2013-03-25T23:43:23 < emeb> ?
2013-03-25T23:43:27 < ds2> and single chip
2013-03-25T23:43:44 < ds2> strong signal rejection
2013-03-25T23:43:58 < ds2> from what I am reading, it wants things to be shielded/filtered
2013-03-25T23:45:05 < emeb> I'd say most front-end circuits work better when shielded & filtered.
2013-03-25T23:45:25 < emeb> what's your application?
2013-03-25T23:45:41 < ds2> bare bones radio - HF/VHF range
2013-03-25T23:46:00 < ds2> did you see the post for the I2C programmable DCO?
2013-03-25T23:46:10 < emeb> didn't see that. where?
2013-03-25T23:46:22 < ds2> emeb: HAD
2013-03-25T23:46:26 < Erlkoenig> F3's RM states that the SD-ADC's clock is "derived from the System clock" - which probably means the AHB clock? But the SD-ADC clock is also turned on/off via the APB2 RCC register, which would mean it's derived from the APB2... what's true now?
2013-03-25T23:46:30 < ds2> top post
2013-03-25T23:46:31 < emeb> HAD?
2013-03-25T23:46:35 < ds2> hack a day
2013-03-25T23:46:41 < emeb> checking...
2013-03-25T23:46:46 < ds2> 2nd from top now
2013-03-25T23:47:05 < emeb> ds2: ah SI570. Old.
2013-03-25T23:47:08 < emeb> and hard to get
2013-03-25T23:47:14 < ds2> they doing a groupbuy
2013-03-25T23:47:24 < emeb> Yeah - that happens every so often.
2013-03-25T23:47:29 < ds2> got a newer part that is as simple? I2C programmable
2013-03-25T23:47:39 < emeb> those things still end up costing about $70/ea
2013-03-25T23:47:47 < ds2> most stuff I see don't go up that high
2013-03-25T23:47:58 < ds2> they claim they are doing it for $14/each
2013-03-25T23:48:10 < ds2> problem is a Minicircuits mixer is more then that
2013-03-25T23:48:13 < emeb> Cool.
2013-03-25T23:48:33 < ds2> and it seems minicircuits wants a min. buy of 20
2013-03-25T23:48:47 < emeb> ADI, Maxim and RFMD makes some decent integrated mixers.
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2013-03-25T23:49:11 < emeb> minicircuits sells onesie-twosies
2013-03-25T23:49:12 < ds2> figure - LNA -> MIXER(Si570) -> LPF -> audio out for a DC receiver
2013-03-25T23:49:15 < emeb> but they're expensive.
2013-03-25T23:49:21 < ds2> they do? the website quotes at min of 20
2013-03-25T23:49:39 < emeb> dafuq? I've bought small qty from them before.
2013-03-25T23:50:00 < ds2> I remember a long time ago, it was singles
2013-03-25T23:50:27 < emeb> I got some stuff just last year.
2013-03-25T23:51:03 < ds2> *shrug*
2013-03-25T23:51:43 < ds2> 20 LNA's at $1-2 is fine... 20 DBMs at >$10 is a bit much
2013-03-25T23:52:08 < Tectu> jpa-, ping
2013-03-25T23:52:16 < Tectu> jpa-, could you solve your problems with the stlink and openocd?
2013-03-25T23:52:23 < emeb> what model # mixer you looking for?
2013-03-25T23:52:48 < ds2> donno, I selected mixer, surface mount, general purpose, and clicked on teh first one
2013-03-25T23:52:54 < ds2> wanted to get a feel of the cost
2013-03-25T23:54:33 < emeb> Looking at the ADE-1L - $16/ea qty 1, $4/ea qty 20
2013-03-25T23:54:57 < ds2> how did you get the qty 1 pricing?
2013-03-25T23:55:14 < emeb> just hit the "Pricing & Availability" button.
2013-03-25T23:55:26 < ds2> i clicked on the ... and it only lists quantity 20. the 'evb' stuff has a '*' to indicate quantity one even though it is in the 20 column
2013-03-25T23:55:28 < ds2> Hmmm
2013-03-25T23:55:59 < emeb> Their website appears to be session sensitive - the link isn't specific.
2013-03-25T23:56:07 < emeb> but you can try this: http://www.minicircuits.com/MCLStore/ModelPriceDisplay
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2013-03-25T23:58:06 < ds2> Interesting... the P/N  you listed doesn't evenshow up when I ask for mixers... the first one I see is a MACA-242H+
2013-03-25T23:58:38 < emeb> http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/ADE-1L.pdf
2013-03-25T23:59:06 < ds2> I can find the PDF docs by searching but that doesn't like to the product page :D
2013-03-25T23:59:29 < ds2> randomly clicked on options.. now it lists it
2013-03-25T23:59:39 < emeb> crazy website
2013-03-25T23:59:52 < ds2> Ah... I see.. this part is available in singles. but the ohter one isn't
--- Day changed Tue Mar 26 2013
2013-03-26T00:00:05 < emeb> there you go
2013-03-26T00:00:30 < ds2> wacky website indeed... it makes ST's seem reasonable and well designed
2013-03-26T00:00:42 < emeb> mini-circuits is an ancient company
2013-03-26T00:01:01 < ds2> yes. i recall their ads from the 80's
2013-03-26T00:01:08 < emeb> this is probably the classic mixer: http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/SBL-1+.pdf
2013-03-26T00:01:15 < emeb> everybody uses that one.
2013-03-26T00:02:39 < ds2> hey... $8
2013-03-26T00:02:50 < emeb> OK - at $14 I'm in for 3 Si570s.
2013-03-26T00:02:57 < ds2> hahahah
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2013-03-26T00:03:26 < emeb> make a nice front end for my RF ADC card. :)
2013-03-26T00:03:48 < ds2> it is too bad they are not doing it with the higher freq ones
2013-03-26T00:04:45 < ds2> I assume I need to put a DC blocking cap in front of the SBL-1 so I don't saturate the inductor?
2013-03-26T00:05:54 < emeb> Which port?
2013-03-26T00:06:04 < ds2> LO
2013-03-26T00:06:23 < ds2> since the Si570 outputs a square wave from 0-3.3 giving me about 1.6v of DC bias
2013-03-26T00:06:45 < Robint91> I <3 DC recievers
2013-03-26T00:07:00 < emeb> the LO port is listed as having response down to 1MHz, so yeah, don't put a biased signal in.
2013-03-26T00:07:03 < ds2> Robint91: what kinds have you built?
2013-03-26T00:07:17 < Robint91> ds2, not much, but more SDR kind of stuff
2013-03-26T00:07:26 < ds2> oh I see
2013-03-26T00:07:37 < ds2> SDR math is too complex. doing it old school in the analog domain first
2013-03-26T00:07:50 < Robint91> ds2, why not a switching mixer?
2013-03-26T00:08:16 < emeb> Robint91: Tayloe?
2013-03-26T00:08:19 < Robint91> ds2, RF -> switches -> IQ -> 90° Phase shift network -> audio
2013-03-26T00:08:23 < Robint91> emeb, yeah that
2013-03-26T00:08:38 < ds2> Robint91: cuz it is more complicated?
2013-03-26T00:08:39  * emeb was present at the first hamfest where Tayloe presented that idea.
2013-03-26T00:08:56 < emeb> He worked at General Dynamics here in Scottsdale.
2013-03-26T00:09:15 < Robint91> ds2, you use a 74hct4066 as mixer
2013-03-26T00:09:18 < ds2> figure I can play with my MPF102's as a "LNA" (or at least a pre-amp)
2013-03-26T00:09:25 < emeb> Main problem with that is that it's inherently narrowband.
2013-03-26T00:09:29 < ds2> Robint91: from what I found, that don't work well outside of HF
2013-03-26T00:09:42 < ds2> whereas I am looking at 10MHz-160MHz
2013-03-26T00:09:47 < Robint91> ds2, ah
2013-03-26T00:10:02 < emeb> ds2: yeah - it's limited by the prop delay of the switch.
2013-03-26T00:10:18 < upgrdman> my f0 wont program after the first time i flashed it. i think it might need the reset line triggered immediately before attempting to flash it now. if i add a reset button to my pcb, and hold it down, grounding NRST, then attempt to connect with stlink, and release the reset button shortly after attempting to connect... would that do it?
2013-03-26T00:10:25 < Robint91> isn't there an alternative to that IC
2013-03-26T00:10:26 < ds2> emeb: oh. I thought it was capacitance of the gates
2013-03-26T00:10:34 < Robint91> FT2323 or something
2013-03-26T00:10:53 < emeb> ds2: that's part of the prop delay :)
2013-03-26T00:11:19 < ds2> besides, I have a 20+ year old project to build a general coverage receiver...think this is the best shot at having something like that ;)
2013-03-26T00:11:22 < Robint91> FST3125
2013-03-26T00:11:43 < Robint91> http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FS/FST3125.pdf
2013-03-26T00:11:59 < emeb> ds2: what range do you want?
2013-03-26T00:12:34 < ds2> emeb: my 20year old spec calls for 500KHz-30MHz, but I will settle for something more modern :/
2013-03-26T00:12:54 < ds2> even have a varable air capacitor stashed somewhere for that
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2013-03-26T00:13:12 < emeb> ds2: now that's oldskool!
2013-03-26T00:13:25 < ds2> complication is I want NFM, LSB, USB, AM, and CW modes
2013-03-26T00:13:36 < ds2> emeb: it is a 20year old project
2013-03-26T00:13:48 < ds2> inspired by popular electronics no less!
2013-03-26T00:14:05 < Robint91> ds2, http://martein.home.xs4all.nl/pa3ake/hmode/index.html
2013-03-26T00:14:07 < emeb> set the wayback machine for the 1970s!
2013-03-26T00:14:44 < ds2> Robint91: nice
2013-03-26T00:15:40 < ds2> those regenerative receivers using MPF102's inplace of the triodes are neat
2013-03-26T00:18:09 < emeb> ds2: you signed up for that tindie group buy on the Si570?
2013-03-26T00:18:30 < ds2> emeb: not yet. I wanted to make sure everything else is viable first
2013-03-26T00:18:32 < ds2> got a few days
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2013-03-26T00:19:07 < ds2> problems?
2013-03-26T00:19:31 < emeb> No. I joined.
2013-03-26T00:19:54 < emeb> he's only about 1/3 of the way to the goal.
2013-03-26T00:20:05 < emeb> I don't know why Silabs doesn't just sell some standard configurations of that part via DK/Mouser.
2013-03-26T00:20:19 < emeb> I'd bet they could crank 'em out.
2013-03-26T00:20:19 < ds2> Silabs can be very odd
2013-03-26T00:20:33 < ds2> had to virtually beg them to buy a EVB for their radio chips
2013-03-26T00:20:34 < emeb> No kidding.
2013-03-26T00:20:58 < ds2> OTH, they were just pushing toolsticks on people
2013-03-26T00:21:21 < emeb> I'm guessing that' their marketing dept. is improperly incentivized.
2013-03-26T00:22:07 < ds2> or they don't trust analog folks ;)
2013-03-26T00:22:13 < emeb> :)
2013-03-26T00:23:37 < ds2> if I understand the OE signal right, I can turn that into an overpriced beacon in a  ham band by using that to key out my call in CW
2013-03-26T00:23:58 < emeb> should work
2013-03-26T00:24:17 < emeb> You'd prolly want to filter the odd harmonics off though.
2013-03-26T00:24:25 < ds2> Oh yeah that
2013-03-26T00:24:37 < ds2> don't need letters of enforcement
2013-03-26T00:24:46 < emeb> that would kill the fun
2013-03-26T00:25:30 < emeb> ds2: how about this: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/AD8342ACPZ-REEL7/AD8342ACPZ-REEL7CT-ND/2467623
2013-03-26T00:25:40 < ds2> though if I added an outside switch, that can be a LO for a full transceiver
2013-03-26T00:25:47 < Tonelock> ds2- would something like this be useful?? http://www.ebay.com/itm/AD9850-DDS-Signal-Generator-Module-0-40MHz-New-/270864751254
2013-03-26T00:26:13 < emeb> that's a good price for a 9850 DDS
2013-03-26T00:26:32 < Tonelock> yeah, I have one of those boards
2013-03-26T00:26:41 < emeb> considering bare chips cost $23 @ DK
2013-03-26T00:26:43 < ds2> IIRC, that has more pins
2013-03-26T00:26:51 < Tonelock> there is another one that goes to over 70Mhz iirc
2013-03-26T00:27:01 < ds2> emeb: nice if I was doing a more serious design... for that I have to do a PCB
2013-03-26T00:27:37 < emeb> ds2: yeah - sbl-1 mixers are very easy to "buy & tie"
2013-03-26T00:27:49 < emeb> or just slap down on perfboard
2013-03-26T00:28:11 < ds2> bare copper + kapton tape. no perfboard :D
2013-03-26T00:28:19 < Tonelock> is that group buy not for a programmable oscillator, not a mixer?
2013-03-26T00:29:11 < emeb> Tonelock: just for the Si570 I2C controlled oscillator
2013-03-26T00:29:16 < emeb> 10MHz - 160MHz
2013-03-26T00:29:21 < emeb> very low phase noise.
2013-03-26T00:29:31 < ds2> IIRC, EPSON has a part with a smaller range
2013-03-26T00:30:03 < Tonelock> oh i see, that is very decent then so, its a raw part , so not as acessible but still
2013-03-26T00:30:14 < Tonelock> great frequency range there
2013-03-26T00:30:20 < ds2> it is 8 pads, easy to proto w/
2013-03-26T00:30:28 < emeb> Tonelock: yeah. SMD but pretty easy to solder.
2013-03-26T00:30:35 < ds2> 32 fine pitch pads is not
2013-03-26T00:30:37 < emeb> or dead-bug.
2013-03-26T00:30:54 < Tonelock> hmm, I do have some conductive glue
2013-03-26T00:30:59 < Tonelock> *paste
2013-03-26T00:31:32 < emeb> no. just no.
2013-03-26T00:31:34 < Tonelock> sorry, not paste, but I think its called silver ink or something
2013-03-26T00:31:43 < emeb> still no. :)
2013-03-26T00:31:50 < emeb> you don't want to use that for RF.
2013-03-26T00:31:51 < Tonelock> hahaha I thought so
2013-03-26T00:32:44 < Tonelock> I'm seriously thinking about just using some real fine copper wire onto the pads with solder paste
2013-03-26T00:32:57 < Tonelock> and just heat it until the solder paste takes
2013-03-26T00:33:10 < emeb> that would work.
2013-03-26T00:33:28 < Tonelock> at $14 a piece
2013-03-26T00:33:36 < Tonelock> I couldn't afford to screw it up
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2013-03-26T00:33:51 < Tonelock> + not being readily available
2013-03-26T00:33:58 < emeb> get some practice on cheaper parts first.
2013-03-26T00:34:10 < Tonelock> yeah, i would
2013-03-26T00:34:21 < Tonelock> or just buy a proper adapter
2013-03-26T00:34:40 < emeb> or learn to design your own PCB.
2013-03-26T00:35:00 < emeb> get kicad or free eagle and get boards built at a batch house.
2013-03-26T00:35:29 < Tonelock> I can design my own pcb's
2013-03-26T00:35:46 < Tonelock> yeah, I would only be buying one
2013-03-26T00:36:17 < Tonelock> my goal in the longterm is to build an ssb transmitter
2013-03-26T00:36:22 < Tonelock> for HF ham bands
2013-03-26T00:36:57 < Tonelock> using reusable modules- so that when I'm not playing radio or get fed up with it- I can reuse them for other projects
2013-03-26T00:37:02 < Tonelock> or sell them
2013-03-26T00:37:19 < Tonelock> and upgrade the hardware bit by bit
2013-03-26T00:37:31 < Tonelock> or sell off the whole lot
2013-03-26T00:37:51 < Tonelock> I don't have as much money invested in dedicate hardware
2013-03-26T00:38:00 < Tonelock> *dedicated
2013-03-26T00:38:06 < Tonelock> that I may seldom use
2013-03-26T00:38:12 < Tonelock> and find hard to sell
2013-03-26T00:38:22 < Tonelock> and lose alot of money on
2013-03-26T00:39:13 < Tonelock> so, emeb - do you think a digital defined ssb transmitter is easily doable for smallish money??
2013-03-26T00:39:32 < ds2> I wonder if the math works out to let me generate AM by PWMing the OE pin on the Si570
2013-03-26T00:39:33 < emeb> Tonelock: should be pretty easy
2013-03-26T00:39:52 < emeb> ds2: I doubt it.
2013-03-26T00:40:25 < emeb> you'd have to PWM it at a rate higher than the carrier and then filter. :P
2013-03-26T00:41:49 < Tonelock> emeb - do you reckon it would be possible to build an ssb transmitter for $350 ?
2013-03-26T00:42:15 < Tonelock> just as a ballpark guess
2013-03-26T00:42:16 < emeb> Tonelock: I'd guess you could go a lot tower.
2013-03-26T00:42:23 < zyp> $350 sounds like a lot
2013-03-26T00:42:35 < ds2> can't you do a SSB xmitter using 2 DBM with a phased LO?
2013-03-26T00:42:45 < ds2> quad LO I mean
2013-03-26T00:42:47 < emeb> Tonelock: you could do it with this: http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/radio/txdac/index.html
2013-03-26T00:42:57 < Tonelock> well, I didn't want to go too low because people would just run me out of here...:): )
2013-03-26T00:43:00 < emeb> plus a cheap FPGA dev board.
2013-03-26T00:43:47 < ds2> oh you meant digitally
2013-03-26T00:44:20 < Tonelock> yes, digitally
2013-03-26T00:44:46 < Tonelock> so, i would be looking to transmit at up to 30Mhz max
2013-03-26T00:45:26 < Tonelock> so, I wonder would a Spartan 3 board be able to handle it?
2013-03-26T00:45:30 < emeb> shouldn't be a problem.
2013-03-26T00:45:45 < Tonelock> oh, sweet
2013-03-26T00:46:00 < Tonelock> what other hardware would be needed?
2013-03-26T00:46:01 < emeb> I think you can do reasonable 100MHz I/O on a Spartan3.
2013-03-26T00:46:10 < Tonelock> I know I would have to build an amplifier
2013-03-26T00:46:15 < emeb> A DAC, filter, PA.
2013-03-26T00:46:20 < Tonelock> *final amplifier
2013-03-26T00:46:25 < emeb> ya
2013-03-26T00:46:45 < Tonelock> so, that DAC you showed me seems good
2013-03-26T00:46:50 < Tonelock> suited for me
2013-03-26T00:46:59 < Tonelock> does it have a filter on it too ?
2013-03-26T00:47:11 < Tonelock> or would i need a seperate filter?
2013-03-26T00:47:14 < emeb> Yes - that's what the big beige block is on the bottom.
2013-03-26T00:47:23 < karlp_> I think I should brew beer tomorrow
2013-03-26T00:47:29 < emeb> You can buy various HF filters in that package.
2013-03-26T00:47:37 < ds2> forget the PA..QRP
2013-03-26T00:47:39 < emeb> this one is 23MHz, but they go higher.
2013-03-26T00:47:51 < emeb> QRP SSB - that's funny.
2013-03-26T00:48:41 < ds2> could be worse... QRP AM
2013-03-26T00:48:42 < ds2> ;)
2013-03-26T00:48:45 < Tonelock> emeb-i see, crystal filter is it?
2013-03-26T00:49:22 < emeb> Tonelock: no, just pre-made lumped elements IIRC.
2013-03-26T00:49:35 < emeb> something like this: http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/SCLF-30.pdf
2013-03-26T00:49:52 < emeb> You could do your own for much less tho
2013-03-26T00:51:00 < Tonelock> ah , i see. I have wanted to get into ham radio for a long time, but never could justify the money on a hardware brick to transmit, whether self-built or otherwise
2013-03-26T00:51:35 < Tonelock> but I think this approach makes sense
2013-03-26T00:51:38 < ds2> you can get HT's for $50
2013-03-26T00:51:40 < Tonelock> have you built one emeb?
2013-03-26T00:51:53 < Tonelock> ds2- I want ssb for HF though
2013-03-26T00:52:00 < Tonelock> not interested in 2meters
2013-03-26T00:52:06 < emeb> Tonelock: I built one of those boards and I've used it to generate AM signals in the SW band.
2013-03-26T00:52:14 < ds2> Tonelock: you got the new no code ticket?
2013-03-26T00:52:23 < Tonelock> ds2- i have no ticket
2013-03-26T00:52:48 < Tonelock> no point in getting the ticket if I can afford a rig
2013-03-26T00:53:30 < Tonelock> also, the cost of getting the ticket is more than the half price of the rig
2013-03-26T00:53:50 < emeb> wat?
2013-03-26T00:54:15 < emeb> how much does a license cost now?
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2013-03-26T00:55:05 < Tonelock> well, here, due to indirect costs, it would stand to cost me at least €150
2013-03-26T00:55:15 < emeb> *boggle*
2013-03-26T00:55:27 < emeb> where is "here"?
2013-03-26T00:55:31 < Tonelock> Ireland
2013-03-26T00:55:42 < emeb> bummer.
2013-03-26T00:55:49 < Tonelock> yeah, it sucks
2013-03-26T00:56:03 < Tonelock> also , you have to renew your licence every so often
2013-03-26T00:56:18 < Tonelock> so no point in getting it until you are ready for transmission
2013-03-26T00:56:22 < emeb> Yeah, I'm up in a year.
2013-03-26T00:57:44 < Tonelock> so yeah, that's the situation
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2013-03-26T00:58:28 < Tonelock> I have always wanted to do voice
2013-03-26T00:58:40 < Tonelock> but I may just stick with CW and data modes only
2013-03-26T00:58:48 < Tonelock> due to cost and simplicity
2013-03-26T00:59:19 < Tonelock> maybe AM too, but no local activity-so that is probably a waste of time
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2013-03-26T01:10:00 < emeb> Tonelock: got RX?
2013-03-26T01:11:31 < ds2> actually from a cost prospective, isn't AM a better starting point?
2013-03-26T01:12:19 < emeb> depends on how your generating it.
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2013-03-26T01:12:42 < ds2> thinking of a 1 FET setup
2013-03-26T01:12:53 < emeb> with and FPGA and SDR techniques SSB and AM are the same hardware.
2013-03-26T01:12:58 < ds2> just L/Cs
2013-03-26T01:13:04 < ds2> ah
2013-03-26T01:13:08 < emeb> but if you're going full analog then yeah - AM is simpler.
2013-03-26T01:13:14 < Tonelock> emeb-yeah, i have an rx
2013-03-26T01:13:26 < ds2> but transistor countwise, isn't analog still lower?
2013-03-26T01:13:32 < Tonelock> if i was going AM-I would probably just do that in analog
2013-03-26T01:13:44 < Tonelock> or CW for that matter
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2013-03-26T01:16:12 < ds2> think you can do SSB in analog w/fewer parts
2013-03-26T01:16:37 < ds2> that modulation thing with quad. LO
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2013-03-26T01:17:41 < Tonelock> hmm, BITX20 is about the simplest analog way of doing it I have seen
2013-03-26T01:20:48 < ds2> http://www.eng.auburn.edu/~troppel/courses/TIMS-manuals-r5/TIMS%20Experiment%20Manuals/Student_Text/Vol-A1/a1-07.pdf
2013-03-26T01:20:50 < ds2> see that
2013-03-26T01:22:17 < emeb> right - standard hilbert transform approach.
2013-03-26T01:22:49 < emeb> looks simple in a block diagram until you realize that those phase shifters are each multi-order filters.
2013-03-26T01:23:08 < ds2> I found some paper docs on doing that with RC filters
2013-03-26T01:23:15 < emeb> and tuning them up so they have accurate 90deg shifts across audio bands is tough.
2013-03-26T01:23:17 < ds2> they are still in paperformat
2013-03-26T01:23:36 < ds2> yes, that was pointed out but apparently it is "good enough" for ham use
2013-03-26T01:24:15 < emeb> ds2: I did an SSB frequency shifter for synthesizers based on that principle: http://www.analoguehaven.com/synthesistechnology/e560/
2013-03-26T01:26:48 < emeb> Here's a good writeup on what's needed for a DSP version: http://yehar.com/blog/?p=368
2013-03-26T01:27:34 < Tonelock> oh, never knew ssb was used in audio effects
2013-03-26T01:27:44 < Tonelock> they must like the daffy duck sound:)
2013-03-26T01:27:45 < Laurenceb_> i thought i understood dsp
2013-03-26T01:27:49 < Laurenceb_> then i met emeb
2013-03-26T01:28:22 < Tonelock> is there a 'dsp for programmers' resource anywhere?
2013-03-26T01:28:42 < Tonelock> everything i ever seen or the lecturer has, is dsp for mathematicians
2013-03-26T01:29:06 < Laurenceb_> not that i have seen
2013-03-26T01:29:46 < Tonelock> I thought so too :(
2013-03-26T01:30:03 < emeb> Tonelock: electronic musicians like strange sounds. Daffy Duck is just one of the things you can do with that.
2013-03-26T01:31:31 < Laurenceb_> heh
2013-03-26T01:31:32 < Tonelock> emeb-yeah, i have met the guitar pedal crowd
2013-03-26T01:31:39 < Tonelock> and MOOG lovers
2013-03-26T01:31:53 < Laurenceb_> ooh the MOOG
2013-03-26T01:32:04 < Tonelock> I still remain stunned by some of the synths on youtube
2013-03-26T01:32:10 < Tonelock> such as the Emulator
2013-03-26T01:32:17 < Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvTe1-a6Pdo
2013-03-26T01:32:24 < Tonelock> that thing to me, is a work of art
2013-03-26T01:33:17 < emeb> ya - that's a pretty well known example.
2013-03-26T01:33:57 < karlp_> got a link to this "Emulator"? it's a pretty common term
2013-03-26T01:34:29 < emeb> http://www.vintagesynth.com/emu/emulator.php
2013-03-26T01:35:39 < emeb> here's an example of a low frequency shift with lots of regeneration: http://www.modcan.com/mp3/DualFSdemos/mode1Ch1_drum.mp3
2013-03-26T01:35:57 < emeb> varying the amount of shift throughout...
2013-03-26T01:37:16 < Tonelock> karlp_ this is it>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fmhW8W51Ns
2013-03-26T01:51:04 < upgrdman> any of you guys use openocd to program your stm32's?
2013-03-26T01:51:13 < Erlkoenig> tried and failed
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2013-03-26T01:52:00 < upgrdman> it works for me, except my current project needs the programmer to pull the reset pin low before attempting to communicate (the swd pins are reused as gpio's in the code...)
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2013-03-26T01:53:02 < Erlkoenig> hum, when i try to reset from openocd i get a lot of weird messages
2013-03-26T01:53:44 < upgrdman> surprising even the official stlink software for windows doesnt seem to make use of the reset line... it just kept claiming that no device was connected.
2013-03-26T01:54:16 < upgrdman> i swapped two lqfp f0's thinking i had a hidden short somewhere
2013-03-26T01:55:14 < upgrdman> guess i should start reading the openocd manual and see if i can figure it out
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2013-03-26T02:10:12 < Laurenceb_> i connected reset to the wrong pin on half my boards...
2013-03-26T02:10:17 < Laurenceb_> so no reset for me either
2013-03-26T02:11:35 < dongs> good job
2013-03-26T02:11:37 < dongs> blame eagle
2013-03-26T02:12:31 <+Steffanx> I blame you
2013-03-26T02:13:10 <+Steffanx> Your trolling 'rewired' some of his neurons, which made him screw things up
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2013-03-26T02:14:39 < Laurenceb_> http://hackaday.com/2013/03/25/giving-an-electric-rc-plane-an-afterburner/
2013-03-26T02:14:53 < Laurenceb_> " They started it up for a test run, and the plane’s body caught fire"
2013-03-26T02:14:55 < Laurenceb_> irl lolled
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2013-03-26T02:17:22 < Ranewen> working 3 hours.... for nothing
2013-03-26T02:17:46 < Laurenceb_> the 3 hours is redundant
2013-03-26T02:18:10 < Laurenceb_> omg the video is epic
2013-03-26T02:18:17 < Laurenceb_> 3:00
2013-03-26T02:19:13 < Ranewen> i curse the day when i ordered protoboards from ebay
2013-03-26T02:20:08 <+Steffanx> poor you
2013-03-26T02:20:38 < Ranewen> some ppl got etching equipment..
2013-03-26T02:20:42 < Ranewen> some dont
2013-03-26T02:21:00 <+Steffanx> some tried it and screwed up terrible
2013-03-26T02:21:03 <+Steffanx> ( like me )
2013-03-26T02:21:12 < Ranewen> meh
2013-03-26T02:23:10 < Ranewen> even my new solder is crap....
2013-03-26T02:23:12 < zyp> Laurenceb_, looks fun
2013-03-26T02:23:14 < Ranewen> *solder wire
2013-03-26T02:23:24 < zyp> Laurenceb_, I mean, playing with fire is pretty fun :p
2013-03-26T02:23:40  * Steffanx sets zyp's house on fire
2013-03-26T02:23:42 <+Steffanx> Fun fun
2013-03-26T02:23:59 < zyp> maybe I'll add afterburners to my quadrotor
2013-03-26T02:24:08 <+Steffanx> because you can?
2013-03-26T02:24:17 < zyp> exactly
2013-03-26T02:24:18 <+Steffanx> Also make it waterproof
2013-03-26T02:24:39 < Ranewen> zyp, qot question bout quadrotor..
2013-03-26T02:24:48 < Ranewen> zyp, is it a quadcopter ?
2013-03-26T02:24:51 < zyp> yes
2013-03-26T02:24:59 <+Steffanx> It's everything
2013-03-26T02:25:00 < Ranewen> :)
2013-03-26T02:25:08 < Ranewen> can you tell me the hover time ?
2013-03-26T02:25:12 <+Steffanx> Quadrotor, quadrocopter, quadcopter .. who cares?
2013-03-26T02:25:23 < zyp> Ranewen, until it crashes
2013-03-26T02:25:33 < Erlkoenig> everyone just wants to build quadrocopters
2013-03-26T02:25:38 < Ranewen> zyp, i mean... did you do some calc's
2013-03-26T02:25:40 <+Steffanx> Yea,h boring
2013-03-26T02:25:44 <+Steffanx> A sub is way more interesting Erlkoenig :)
2013-03-26T02:25:45 < zyp> Ranewen, not really
2013-03-26T02:25:49 < Ranewen> zyp, _(
2013-03-26T02:25:52 < Erlkoenig> oh yeah
2013-03-26T02:26:07 < zyp> Ranewen, mine is currently mains powered, so in theory it'll fly forever
2013-03-26T02:26:23 < zyp> until it runs out of cord
2013-03-26T02:26:32 <+Steffanx> In theory it will not fly forever
2013-03-26T02:26:38 < zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/a8bMt.JPG
2013-03-26T02:27:14 < zyp> Steffanx, in theory you could not be nitpicking
2013-03-26T02:27:18 < dongs> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/twitter-sued-50-million-for-refusing-to-reveal-anti-semites/
2013-03-26T02:27:21 < dongs> lol
2013-03-26T02:27:29 <+Steffanx> in theory, .. that's ok zyp
2013-03-26T02:27:51 < Ranewen> zyp, i think that the max hover time (that i calced last year) was ~40 mins
2013-03-26T02:28:23 <+Steffanx> dongs knows everything about quadcopters Ranewen
2013-03-26T02:28:31 < zyp> Ranewen, it's very dependant on setup
2013-03-26T02:28:34 <+Steffanx> He is mr quadcopter himself
2013-03-26T02:28:46 < zyp> and yes, dongs is way more knowledgeable than me :p
2013-03-26T02:28:54 <+Steffanx> Ranewen, did you see this video about an air time of 2 hours? :)
2013-03-26T02:29:00 <+Steffanx> Not sure if hoax or not
2013-03-26T02:29:05 < Ranewen> Steffanx, hax
2013-03-26T02:29:35 < Ranewen> i ran 2-3-4-5-6-7 etc rotors, different masses, different blades, dimensions etc...
2013-03-26T02:30:02 < Ranewen> basically you don't want more rotors if you want long up-time :D
2013-03-26T02:30:04 < zyp> it's all about power consumption to payload capacity ratio, and then you just fill up all the payload capacity with batteries
2013-03-26T02:30:39 < Ranewen> zyp, i had an idea' about creating a "smart" drone (with all kinds of sensors in it)
2013-03-26T02:31:07 < dongs> i've got an idea ffor you
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2013-03-26T02:31:15 < dongs> go buy some DJI toys and behappy
2013-03-26T02:31:20 < zyp> :p
2013-03-26T02:31:25 < Ranewen> :/
2013-03-26T02:31:53 < dongs> totally srs.
2013-03-26T02:32:07 <+Steffanx> http://www.dji-innovations.com/products/phantom/overview/ that dongs?
2013-03-26T02:32:19 < dongs> yep
2013-03-26T02:32:27 <+Steffanx> ( most ugly one i've ever seen )
2013-03-26T02:32:39 < Ranewen> +1
2013-03-26T02:32:41 <+Steffanx> even the cat copter is better than that one
2013-03-26T02:32:47 < Ranewen> +
2013-03-26T02:32:49 < Ranewen> +2
2013-03-26T02:33:08 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx: looks hipster/iDevice-User-Compatible
2013-03-26T02:33:46 < Ranewen> but have you seen those "swarm?" quadcopters.. like 20 of them, flying in formations ?
2013-03-26T02:33:54 <+Steffanx> no, its looks more like an adroid device Erlkoenig
2013-03-26T02:34:03 < dongs> yeah its called they're flying in a room full of cameras
2013-03-26T02:34:55 < Ranewen> dongs, so what if some people got time, and money to make their own drones....
2013-03-26T02:35:26 < dongs> its dum
2013-03-26T02:35:47 <+Steffanx> buy one from dongs
2013-03-26T02:35:51 < dongs> no.
2013-03-26T02:35:55 < Ranewen> arguments?
2013-03-26T02:36:12 < dongs> buy 10 from dji
2013-03-26T02:36:25 < Ranewen> how much is 1 ?
2013-03-26T02:36:35 < dongs> $680/ea.
2013-03-26T02:36:39 <+Steffanx> LOL
2013-03-26T02:36:40 < dongs> a steal for the capabilities.
2013-03-26T02:36:59 <+Steffanx> troll succesful dongs
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2013-03-26T02:37:24 < Ranewen> +1 Steffanx
2013-03-26T02:37:31 < Ranewen> actually its +3 now
2013-03-26T02:37:36 <+Steffanx> Ranewen, is into g+ ?
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2013-03-26T02:37:44 < dongs> gay+?
2013-03-26T02:37:46 < Ranewen> was like google +1
2013-03-26T02:37:50 < Ranewen> then went mad
2013-03-26T02:38:18 < Ranewen> srsly... i wasnt trolled that hard since a long time ago
2013-03-26T02:38:29 <+Steffanx> I bet you got trolled by dongs before
2013-03-26T02:38:38 < Ranewen> no i didnt
2013-03-26T02:38:41 <+Steffanx> Like EVERYONE on the web
2013-03-26T02:38:42 < Ranewen> im new on stm32
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2013-03-26T02:40:59 < dongs> new2internet
2013-03-26T02:42:12 < Ranewen> what can i do
2013-03-26T02:42:18 < Ranewen> i cant buy nxp dips...
2013-03-26T02:42:35 < Ranewen> im even more mad..
2013-03-26T02:43:19 <+Steffanx> Who needs dip?
2013-03-26T02:43:45 < dongs> hes gonna make drones out of dip chips
2013-03-26T02:43:47 < dongs> on perfboard
2013-03-26T02:44:30 <+Steffanx> If it works..
2013-03-26T02:44:50 < Ranewen> it was just my idea to make quadcops... and it was ages ago
2013-03-26T02:44:58 < Ranewen> now i want to learn arms and stuff.
2013-03-26T02:45:26 < dongs> get a shitberrypi, install lunix on it. run xbmc, hook it up to your tv. now you're an instant embedded arm lunix expert
2013-03-26T02:45:38 <+Steffanx> </rants>
2013-03-26T02:45:48 < dongs> you can now give advice on which lunix is best for arm and how to program it
2013-03-26T02:46:44 < Ranewen> you know... when "arm32bit 120MHz inside of your pc cooler" i need to learn these great arhitectures !!!!
2013-03-26T02:47:26 < Ranewen> ppl wanna buy products with arm.......
2013-03-26T02:47:46 < dongs> no it just means you paid too much for your "pc cooler"
2013-03-26T02:48:08 < Ranewen> true..
2013-03-26T02:48:22 < Erlkoenig> you need a mikrocontroller for a fucking fan controller??
2013-03-26T02:48:31 < Erlkoenig> NE-555 sold out?
2013-03-26T02:48:48 < Ranewen> Erlkoenig, we were "joking"
2013-03-26T02:48:50 < dongs> to pwm all the leds inside the gaming rig
2013-03-26T02:48:52 < Erlkoenig> ah.
2013-03-26T02:49:21 <+Steffanx> Erlkoenig got trolled
2013-03-26T02:49:31 < Erlkoenig> thanks for the hint
2013-03-26T02:49:36 <+Steffanx> ( not r eally, but i just like to say that )
2013-03-26T02:49:47 < Ranewen> Steffanx, haha
2013-03-26T02:51:16 <+Steffanx> Dongs McDickerson  .. that must be you dongs
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2013-03-26T02:51:26 < dongs> no.
2013-03-26T02:51:33 <+Steffanx> wutf?
2013-03-26T02:52:05 < dongs> no idea/
2013-03-26T02:52:15 < dongs> are you twittering again?
2013-03-26T02:52:31 <+Steffanx> http://fukubee.tumblr.com/ it must be .. see all the anime crap
2013-03-26T02:53:06 < dongs> cool twitter site bro
2013-03-26T02:53:08 < dongs> are you owner?
2013-03-26T02:53:36 <+Steffanx> I'll never call myself Dongs McDickerson ..
2013-03-26T02:53:56 < zyp> you should start
2013-03-26T02:54:04 <+Steffanx> No thanks
2013-03-26T02:54:06 < Ranewen> Steffanx, cool site you made.
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2013-03-26T02:54:28 <+Steffanx> I think even zyp would start a website like that before me..
2013-03-26T02:54:32 <+Steffanx> As he is into anime
2013-03-26T02:54:56 < Ranewen> i never seen anime..
2013-03-26T02:55:07 -!- DaKu is now known as daku
2013-03-26T02:55:11 < Ranewen> i was raised without animes
2013-03-26T02:55:20 <+Steffanx> lucky you
2013-03-26T02:55:20 < Ranewen> kind of miss them..
2013-03-26T02:56:03 < Ranewen> is anyone using windows here ?
2013-03-26T02:56:13 < Ranewen> im not trolling..
2013-03-26T02:56:16 <+Steffanx> only one i think
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2013-03-26T02:56:51 < Ranewen> linux you say ?
2013-03-26T02:57:13 <+Steffanx> No, only one who doesn't use linux, freebsd or os x
2013-03-26T02:57:15 < zyp> Steffanx, I don't even recognize most of that shit
2013-03-26T02:57:26 <+Steffanx> most of it. I only
2013-03-26T02:57:31 < dongs> looks like gay shit to me
2013-03-26T02:57:32 <+Steffanx> recognize that it is anime
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2013-03-26T02:57:47 <+Steffanx> Or isn't it animé? :)
2013-03-26T02:57:52 < zyp> dongs, yeah, that's what I'm also thinking
2013-03-26T02:57:57 < zyp> I don't watch gay shit
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2013-03-26T03:00:05 <+Steffanx> You prefer to watch 2 girls shit zyp ?
2013-03-26T03:00:25 <+Steffanx> You know what.
2013-03-26T03:00:26 <+Steffanx> Gn
2013-03-26T03:00:34 < zyp> aren't gay girls gay?
2013-03-26T03:01:25 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Quit: zzzzZZzzz]
2013-03-26T03:02:04 < dongs> zyp, any interesting status
2013-03-26T03:02:52 < Erlkoenig> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwVLRPStrZk
2013-03-26T03:03:22 < zyp> dongs, about to fall asleep on a sofa, plane to japan departing in 11 hours or so
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2013-03-26T03:03:46 < dongs> funtimes.
2013-03-26T03:04:02 < zyp> especially the flight
2013-03-26T03:04:16 < Ranewen> Erlkoenig, what kind of person has that links bookmarked....
2013-03-26T03:04:47 < Erlkoenig> got it from some other channel and had it still in history
2013-03-26T03:06:13 < Ranewen> what linux distro should i use ?? (im used to windows)
2013-03-26T03:06:32 < Erlkoenig> the black-haired one is cute
2013-03-26T03:06:58 < Erlkoenig> but these skirts are weird
2013-03-26T03:07:04 < zyp> Ranewen, use for what?
2013-03-26T03:07:21 < Ranewen> i want drivers for wifi, toolchains for uc's and thath's it
2013-03-26T03:07:31 < Ranewen> even to run some windows games...
2013-03-26T03:07:32 < Erlkoenig> there are WIndows-TOolchains for µC too
2013-03-26T03:07:45 < Erlkoenig> like gcc-arm-embedded for ARM µC
2013-03-26T03:07:52 < Ranewen> Erlkoenig, I KNEEW
2013-03-26T03:07:58 < Erlkoenig> so stay with windows :P
2013-03-26T03:08:12 < Ranewen> its so slow.. freezes
2013-03-26T03:08:19 < Ranewen> maybee il reinstall
2013-03-26T03:08:24 < Erlkoenig> linux isn't faster or more stable
2013-03-26T03:09:11 < Ranewen> i know it's unstable as ***, but i thought it was faster.
2013-03-26T03:09:22 < Erlkoenig> it is not, especially if not hand-tuned
2013-03-26T03:09:44 < Ranewen> i thought that those "small" distros were faster due to size..
2013-03-26T03:10:04 < Erlkoenig> depends. however being small makes them less usable
2013-03-26T03:10:11 < Ranewen> yep, and people always troll about wifi drivers
2013-03-26T03:10:21 < Erlkoenig> yes and video cards drivers
2013-03-26T03:10:39 < Ranewen> then windows it is....
2013-03-26T03:11:17 < Ranewen> but i feel that the time of linux is yet to come
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2013-03-26T03:14:29 < Ranewen> either way, goodnight...
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2013-03-26T03:48:55 < dongs> haha 47uF smd caps are like $4/ea
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2013-03-26T04:07:23 < upgrdman> dongs: wtf? where?
2013-03-26T04:15:12 < dongs> at digikey
2013-03-26T04:15:19 < dongs> ok, i should say 47uF *ceramic* smd caps.
2013-03-26T04:16:35 < Simon--> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/C1206C476M8PACTU/399-5508-1-ND/1950686
2013-03-26T04:16:45 < dongs> ya 10v
2013-03-26T04:20:02 < Simon--> what you want, 1kv?
2013-03-26T04:20:20 < Simon--> probably side issues after 16Vish :)
2013-03-26T04:21:52 < dongs> 25 but yeah ill just use alu caps
2013-03-26T04:28:08 < gxti> let's see if it has a spec sheet
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2013-03-26T04:29:04 < gxti> hm, no chart of capacitance vs dc bias
2013-03-26T04:29:07 < gxti> i bet it's appalling
2013-03-26T04:35:28 < gxti> yeah i seriously doubt you'd want to use 47uf ceramics, especially at >10v
2013-03-26T04:37:36 < gxti> 20% less capacitance at 10V, 66% less at 25V, self-resonance at 400khz
2013-03-26T04:43:18 < emeb_mac> how about 3.3V?
2013-03-26T04:43:29 < dongs> hheh
2013-03-26T04:43:40 < ds2> even for 1206 sized ones?
2013-03-26T04:44:36 < emeb_mac> was looking at these for output filters on a smps: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Murata/GRM32ER61C476ME15L/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvQvaS66kI3TjjZdQRDGqBzdbdtYTYr%252byE%3d
2013-03-26T04:45:07 < emeb_mac> @ 3.3V
2013-03-26T04:49:54 < dongs> i fucking hate mouser links
2013-03-26T04:57:26 < emeb_mac> lots of %
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2013-03-26T05:18:53 < Rickta59> http://tinyurl.com/d3btz2b 48 pin Programming Adapter Socket .. has anyone bought one of these?
2013-03-26T05:20:21 < Rickta59> or are there cheaper ones some place?
2013-03-26T05:20:43 < Rickta59> that one is $60
2013-03-26T05:33:33 < dongs> no i have that exact one
2013-03-26T05:33:48 < Rickta59> seems to work fine?
2013-03-26T05:34:13 < dongs> ive used it for prototyping stuff quickly, yeah it works fine
2013-03-26T05:34:18 < Rickta59> k thanks
2013-03-26T05:37:32 < dongs> Rickta59: http://i.imgur.com/6ulcdMQ.jpg
2013-03-26T05:38:00 < Rickta59> are you just using a discovery board as a programmer?
2013-03-26T05:38:10 < dongs> no
2013-03-26T05:38:17 < dongs> i have proper jtag adapters
2013-03-26T05:38:20 < dongs> jlink and ulink2
2013-03-26T05:38:26 < dongs> stlink is garbage
2013-03-26T05:38:54 < Rickta59> i have a couple of those so i'll probably try those first
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2013-03-26T06:00:42 < dongs> fucking opensores.
2013-03-26T06:00:56 < dongs> "upgraded" to latest mkv shit and now it refuses to open MP4 shit that worked before
2013-03-26T06:01:53 < emeb_mac> never understood why mkv was necessary.
2013-03-26T06:01:59 < dongs> its not
2013-03-26T06:02:01 < dongs> thats the problem
2013-03-26T06:02:09 < emeb_mac> always seemed like just another "me too" container format.
2013-03-26T06:04:16 < emeb_mac> just use ffmpeg to convert to another format that is supported. :P
2013-03-26T06:04:57 < ossifrage> any idea who provides __errno: wf_log.c:(.text.logf+0xac): undefined reference to `__errno'
2013-03-26T06:05:00 < ossifrage> trying to call logf()
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2013-03-26T08:20:57 < jpa-> Tectu: no
2013-03-26T08:21:18 < jpa-> Tectu: i got it to kind-of work, but it always crashes within 5 minutes of just running the program
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2013-03-26T08:34:39 < emeb_mac> reading datasheet for an RF amplifier chip. quoting MTBF of 20,000 years. Right.
2013-03-26T08:38:55 < dongs> i think they misspelled hours
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2013-03-26T08:41:18 < dongs> lol. a local equivalent of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-Alert just broadcast a missing dog announcement to the entire fucking town
2013-03-26T08:42:30  * emeb_mac waits for "cat up a tree" announcement
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2013-03-26T08:47:24 < ds2> i like that
2013-03-26T08:47:32 < ds2> any failures is return able :D
2013-03-26T08:50:32 < emeb_mac> ds2: looking at other mini-circuits parts for an RF front end...
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2013-03-26T12:59:44 < carp3> Hi, how can i change STM32 frequency dynamically ?
2013-03-26T13:00:25 < carp3> i want to change from 168mhz to 1mhz dynamically .( to save energy )
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2013-03-26T13:07:07 < karlp_> carp3: sure, just change the clocks. RCC has lots of regs for that
2013-03-26T13:07:15 < karlp_> you can also turn off parts of the chip the same way
2013-03-26T13:07:43 < karlp_> anyone know any micro usb sockets that have _round_ legs so I can do normal drills for them, instead of slots?
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2013-03-26T13:09:23 < karlp_> these look decentish, but it's all slots http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/10103594-0001LF/609-4050-1-ND/2350357
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2013-03-26T13:55:20 < jpa-> yay 10 assembled units of my STM32F4 work project on my table \o/
2013-03-26T13:55:25 < jpa-> atleast one of them works
2013-03-26T13:57:37 <+Steffanx> Yay
2013-03-26T13:57:52 <+Steffanx> Free coke (cola) for jpa-
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2013-03-26T14:09:50 < jpa-> Steffanx: no, but free coffee!
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2013-03-26T15:10:05 < carp3> is it possible to keep internal SRAM while stm32 is in standby mode ?
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2013-03-26T15:25:14 < Tectu> when I'm using an STM32F407 with 12MHz crystal and 168MHz core clock, how likely is it that the 80MHz my spectrum analyzer shows is the peripheral clock?
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2013-03-26T15:59:16 < zyp> jpa-, hi, I'm invading your country
2013-03-26T15:59:58 <+Steffanx> You and your friend.. how large is the army of finland?
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2013-03-26T16:04:56 < Ranewen> Steffanx, which uni do you attend?
2013-03-26T16:05:17 <+Steffanx> Why that matters?
2013-03-26T16:05:33 < Ranewen> i wanna know
2013-03-26T16:05:53 <+Steffanx> You want to know because?
2013-03-26T16:06:21 < Ranewen> i wanna go ther
2013-03-26T16:06:37 <+Steffanx> You don't want to go to dutchland
2013-03-26T16:06:48 <+Steffanx> You don't even know what i study
2013-03-26T16:07:32 < Ranewen> try me
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2013-03-26T16:07:58 < gxti> you study trolls, on irc
2013-03-26T16:08:10 <+Steffanx> More than that, gxti
2013-03-26T16:08:19 < gxti> also pedos?
2013-03-26T16:08:36 <+Steffanx> Silly gxti is silly
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2013-03-26T16:09:41 <+Steffanx> You'd better go to finland, norway, germany etc. Ranewen
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2013-03-26T16:12:25 < Ranewen> o thought you were from the countries you specced
2013-03-26T16:12:32 < Ranewen> not some random dutch:P
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2013-03-26T16:13:09 <+Steffanx> Uh countries i specced?
2013-03-26T16:13:30 < Laurenceb_> go to UK
2013-03-26T16:13:46 <+Steffanx> No way
2013-03-26T16:13:52 <+Steffanx> dont
2013-03-26T16:14:36 < Laurenceb_> lolz
2013-03-26T16:14:59 < Ranewen> dont be mad
2013-03-26T16:15:00 < Ranewen> im new
2013-03-26T16:15:02 < Ranewen> here
2013-03-26T16:15:40 <+Steffanx> I'm not mad, lol. I'm always like this
2013-03-26T16:15:57 < Ranewen> like you smoke weed
2013-03-26T16:16:16 < Laurenceb_> stm32 is a troll channel
2013-03-26T16:16:20 <+Steffanx> Man, people and their dutch are weed head crap :(
2013-03-26T16:16:34 < Ranewen> your more like dongs on stereoids
2013-03-26T16:16:57 < Laurenceb_> yall posting in a troll channel
2013-03-26T16:16:57 <+Steffanx> stm32 is not a troll channel. You make me troll Laurenceb_
2013-03-26T16:17:27 < Ranewen> so nobody  knows arm... seems legit
2013-03-26T16:17:35 < Laurenceb_> trollfection
2013-03-26T16:17:47 < gxti> this channel is half trolls and half people who don't know how to not be sardonic 24/7, mostly because of the trolls
2013-03-26T16:17:51 <+Steffanx> Ranewen the STM32 knowledge is ok here
2013-03-26T16:18:11 < Ranewen> ok, glad to be near the arm gurus
2013-03-26T16:18:35 <+Steffanx> Not arm gurus, but the STM32 knowledge is ok
2013-03-26T16:18:41 < gxti> Ranewen: we're easily distracted by actual stm32 questions
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2013-03-26T16:20:42 <+Steffanx> And it's not really trolling, more offtopic talk
2013-03-26T16:39:20 < jpa-> zyp: too bad the airport is guarded :)
2013-03-26T16:39:33 < zyp> otherwise you would attack me? :)
2013-03-26T16:40:03 < zyp> good thing plane is departing in 40 minutes then :p
2013-03-26T16:42:36 < zyp> finnish is kinda similar to norway
2013-03-26T16:42:55 < zyp> just add some i-s or e-s and double consonants to some words
2013-03-26T16:43:10 < zyp> and put them in between some other words that doesn't make sense
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2013-03-26T16:53:23 < zyp> ok, boarding, see you in half a day
2013-03-26T16:54:23 <+Steffanx> bb
2013-03-26T16:54:30 < gxti> try not to die
2013-03-26T16:56:41 <+Steffanx> gxti and his optimism
2013-03-26T17:03:15 < Laurenceb_> where is zyp going?
2013-03-26T17:03:22 < gxti> moonland
2013-03-26T17:03:28 < Laurenceb_> awesome
2013-03-26T17:04:10 <+Steffanx> He is going to visit dongs, Laurenceb_
2013-03-26T17:04:23 < Laurenceb_> 4 real?
2013-03-26T17:04:31 <+Steffanx> or just jappyland
2013-03-26T17:06:05 <+Steffanx> Not sure if it's is "4 real", but HE said he was going to jappyland, yes
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2013-03-26T17:09:37 < Laurenceb_> need photo of zyp+dongs
2013-03-26T17:09:57 <+Steffanx> Not going to happen.
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2013-03-26T18:20:07 < Laurenceb_> http://www.raspberrypi.org/
2013-03-26T18:20:11 < Laurenceb_> lol @ tip of the day
2013-03-26T18:22:17 < emeb> do you suppose they have a lot of pig farmers in the RPi community?
2013-03-26T18:22:42 < emeb> Looks like that si570 group buy met its goal
2013-03-26T18:22:51 < Laurenceb_> they seem to copy and paste from here
2013-03-26T18:22:52 < Laurenceb_> http://www.fishtank.org.uk/humour/humour.php3?articleid=61
2013-03-26T18:23:04 < Laurenceb_> emeb: just email silabs sales rep?!
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2013-03-26T18:23:32 < emeb> Laurenceb_: to what end? free samples?
2013-03-26T18:23:40 < Laurenceb_> yes
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2013-03-26T18:24:12 < emeb> hmmm... I'd imagine they get a lot of requests for that. Probably not to likely to fall for it.
2013-03-26T18:24:54 <+Steffann> zlog
2013-03-26T18:24:54 < zlog_> Steffann: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-26.html
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2013-03-26T18:26:59 < zippe> That is a fairly badass oscillator
2013-03-26T18:27:10 < emeb> si570?
2013-03-26T18:27:53 < Laurenceb_> actually.. it is
2013-03-26T18:28:05 < Laurenceb_> id like to see a spectrum analysis of the output
2013-03-26T18:28:21 < emeb> did you check the jitter spec? 0.6ps on the cmos output...
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2013-03-26T18:29:16 < Laurenceb_> but not sinusoid
2013-03-26T18:29:24 < Laurenceb_> so useless for SDR
2013-03-26T18:29:31 < emeb> Pardon?
2013-03-26T18:29:46 <+Steffann> trollenceb_
2013-03-26T18:29:48 < Laurenceb_> full of harmonics
2013-03-26T18:29:54 < Laurenceb_> like all this SDR crap
2013-03-26T18:30:00 < emeb> bah
2013-03-26T18:31:15 < emeb> perfectly valid to use a squarewave for a LO on a mixer if you have good roofing filters on the RF input.
2013-03-26T18:31:21 < Laurenceb_> IF
2013-03-26T18:31:37 < Laurenceb_> unlike blade rf
2013-03-26T18:33:38 <+Steffann> Yeah, didn't they tell you that part is up to you Laurenceb_
2013-03-26T18:33:39 <+Steffann> ?
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2013-03-26T18:35:16 < Laurenceb_> Steffann: go here ->  http://ifailatlife.com/bp/ifailatlifIndex.htm
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2013-03-26T18:43:50 < emeb> now what the world needs is a monolithic I2C controlled RF bandpass filter.
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2013-03-26T18:45:10 < zippe> SiLabs will build you just about anything you ask for
2013-03-26T18:45:19 < zippe> They're pretty cheap and they do good work
2013-03-26T18:45:45 < emeb> they certainly have a broad line of RF products.
2013-03-26T18:45:49 < zippe> If I had to guess, you probably only need to guarantee something like $10M in sales
2013-03-26T18:46:01 < emeb> That's all. :)
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2013-03-26T18:46:40 < Laurenceb_> yes thats the issue with SDR
2013-03-26T18:46:45 < Laurenceb_> theres no such filter
2013-03-26T18:48:54 < zippe> I guess I'm not sure I understand why you care
2013-03-26T18:49:15 < zippe> Are you doing all that in the digital domain?
2013-03-26T18:50:07 < emeb> you still need to ensure a clean signal into the ADC - filter & tune a given band so out-of-band stuff doesn't saturate the front end.
2013-03-26T18:51:09 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-26T18:51:37 < Laurenceb_> unless you have a crazy fast adc
2013-03-26T18:52:07 < emeb> or high resolution so you can throw dynamic range at the problem.
2013-03-26T18:53:07 < zippe> Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but with a frequency-agile oscillator you can do IF with a fixed bandpass.
2013-03-26T18:53:39 < emeb> there are trade-offs.
2013-03-26T18:53:48 < zippe> There are always trade-offs. 8)
2013-03-26T18:54:36 < emeb> going straight into the mixer w/o a roofing filter means that you can saturate the mixer (IP3 issues) and also you take a hit on noise figure (since mixers are typically bad on NF).
2013-03-26T18:55:57 < emeb> also, bringing the unfiltered full-bandwidth RF into the mixer means your LO needs to be very clean (as Laurenceb_ lamented earlier).
2013-03-26T18:56:16 < emeb> (ie harmonics of the LO will mix down in-band)
2013-03-26T18:56:38 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2013-03-26T18:56:51 < Laurenceb_> IMO IP3 issues are more manageable
2013-03-26T18:57:12 < emeb> yeah - a diode ring mixer usually has a very high IP3
2013-03-26T18:57:26 < Laurenceb_> and you can put a wideband LNA on the front
2013-03-26T18:57:36 < Laurenceb_> GPS often does that
2013-03-26T18:57:52 < emeb> but then you need some roofing to protect the LNA. :)
2013-03-26T18:58:09 < Laurenceb_> often GPS doesnt bother
2013-03-26T18:58:16 < emeb> you sure?
2013-03-26T18:58:29 < emeb> don't the antennas on GPS have a bandpass characteristic?
2013-03-26T18:58:32 < Laurenceb_> ive seen it done
2013-03-26T18:58:33 < Laurenceb_> sure
2013-03-26T18:58:46 < Laurenceb_> but putting a SAW in there would raise the NF
2013-03-26T18:59:18 < emeb> But GPS front-ends aren't broadband & agile
2013-03-26T18:59:23 < Laurenceb_> often they have a ~9dB gain ~1dB NF LNA on the front
2013-03-26T19:01:37 < emeb> yeah, but the antenna doesn't pick up strong OOB signals with any gain at all, so that's built-in filtering to keep that nice LNA from saturating.
2013-03-26T19:02:01 < emeb> You can't do that on an SDR system that has to be broadly tunable.
2013-03-26T19:02:29 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2013-03-26T19:03:50 < emeb> Here's a tunable lowpass: http://www.hittite.com/products/view.html/view/HMC1023LP5E
2013-03-26T19:05:22 < Laurenceb_> nice
2013-03-26T19:05:43 < ds2> GPS can get away with less gain
2013-03-26T19:06:02 < emeb> Here's an I2C tunable harmonic filter: http://www.hittite.com/products/view.html/view/HMC1044LP3E
2013-03-26T19:06:31 < emeb> slap that on the output of the Si570 to knock off the harmonics & you've got a nice LO.
2013-03-26T19:06:52 < ds2> thought diode ring mixers like to be driven hard?
2013-03-26T19:07:03 < emeb> ds2: yeah
2013-03-26T19:07:04 < ds2> at least on the LO side
2013-03-26T19:07:27 < emeb> and IIRC the harder you drive them, the higher the IP3.
2013-03-26T19:07:42 < ds2> then a filter would be bad, wouldn't it?
2013-03-26T19:08:06 < emeb> depends on if it's knocking the signal level down.
2013-03-26T19:08:16 < Laurenceb_> interesting
2013-03-26T19:08:22 < Laurenceb_> nothing in a nice range tho
2013-03-26T19:09:14 < ds2> bleh... that part is too wide
2013-03-26T19:09:30 < emeb> ds2: did you see the group buy met the goal?
2013-03-26T19:09:44 < ds2> it did?! shit
2013-03-26T19:09:48 < ds2> so it is closed?
2013-03-26T19:10:14 < Laurenceb_> holy shit
2013-03-26T19:10:16 < emeb> dunno
2013-03-26T19:10:22 < Laurenceb_> hittite have some cool stuff
2013-03-26T19:10:26 < emeb> yes they do
2013-03-26T19:10:42  * Laurenceb_ checks out the optical kit
2013-03-26T19:11:18 <+Steffann> perfect website for you Laurenceb_
2013-03-26T19:11:22 < Laurenceb_> http://www.hittite.com/products/view.html/view/HMC6282A
2013-03-26T19:11:24 < Laurenceb_> omfg
2013-03-26T19:11:32 < emeb> ds2: they've gone $300 beyond the goal
2013-03-26T19:12:03 < emeb> so I'd guess it's not a hard ceiling.
2013-03-26T19:12:06 < ds2> isn't the 10db NF a bit high?
2013-03-26T19:12:34 < ds2> I hope so
2013-03-26T19:14:07 < emeb> 10dB NF? wat?
2013-03-26T19:14:33 < ds2> on the 1023 part
2013-03-26T19:14:52 < emeb> Oh.
2013-03-26T19:14:56 < ds2> or is that why it has a potential for 10db of gain?
2013-03-26T19:15:17 < emeb> It's not for front ends. It's an ADC driver w/ integrated anti-alias.
2013-03-26T19:15:31 < emeb> so by the time you get there the NF is already set upstream.
2013-03-26T19:15:45 < ds2> ohh
2013-03-26T19:16:54 < qyx> have anyone tried stm32w?
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2013-03-26T19:20:51 < Laurenceb_> some crazy ADCS there...
2013-03-26T19:21:01 < Laurenceb_> qyx: no, but ST now have some drivers for it
2013-03-26T19:21:07 < Laurenceb_> so it looks good
2013-03-26T19:21:13 < Laurenceb_> but crappy link budget
2013-03-26T19:21:19 < Laurenceb_> compared to the axsemi stuff
2013-03-26T19:21:28 < qyx> i just saw that 107 value
2013-03-26T19:21:42 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2013-03-26T19:22:01 < Laurenceb_> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:chipcon_cc1020_software_define_radio <- something I made a while ago...
2013-03-26T19:23:36 < qyx> i need 802.15.4, but this is interesting
2013-03-26T19:24:27 < Laurenceb_> i think the st drivers can be made to do that
2013-03-26T19:25:48 < qyx> you did sdr with it?
2013-03-26T19:27:08 < Laurenceb_> with chipcon cc1020
2013-03-26T19:27:12 < Laurenceb_> and atmega
2013-03-26T19:27:21 < Laurenceb_> but same technique would work with stm32
2013-03-26T19:27:26 < Laurenceb_> and its low power
2013-03-26T19:33:54 < qyx> i think i will just use mrf24j40 module
2013-03-26T19:35:24 < qyx> together with stm32L1
2013-03-26T19:36:50 < Laurenceb_> http://www.hittite.com/products/view.html/view/HMC799LP3E
2013-03-26T19:36:52 < Laurenceb_> niceeeee
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2013-03-26T19:38:53 < qyx> but it has only -95dBm sensitivity :S
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2013-03-26T19:46:57 < emeb> Laurenceb_: http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/rf-technology-design/mixers/double-balanced-mixer-tutorial.php
2013-03-26T19:47:10 < emeb> check out the heading "Reversing Switch Mixers"...
2013-03-26T19:47:29 < emeb> suggests that using a diode ring driven hard w/ square-wave LO works well.
2013-03-26T19:48:01 < Laurenceb_> interesting
2013-03-26T19:48:02 < emeb> harmonics may not be an issue in that configuration.
2013-03-26T19:48:09 < emeb> need to check more tho.
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2013-03-26T20:37:33 < emeb> Laurenceb_: more on square wave LO - http://mwrf.com/components/mixers-terminate-intermod-distortion
2013-03-26T20:37:45 < emeb> looks like the squarer the better...
2013-03-26T20:38:24 < trepidaciousMBR> I'm just looking at using ChibiOS for a bootloader (and for the application it boots). Is there a standard way of "leaving a message" for the bootloader, from the application? So for example, the application may detect that the user wants to update, then set up the message, then jump to bootloader, the bootloader should read the message and start the update (rather than booting into the application again)?
2013-03-26T20:38:27 < emeb> (3rd paragraph)
2013-03-26T20:39:22 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: you can just designate some memory area for it
2013-03-26T20:40:00 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: how would you avoid the possibility of bricking?
2013-03-26T20:40:11 < trepidaciousMBR> Is there anything special I need to do to make sure that the memory isn't cleared during initialisation?
2013-03-26T20:40:53 < trepidaciousMBR> Well, the bootloader will never overwrite itself, and will be capable of initiating an update if the user application has an invalid checksum (or something similar)
2013-03-26T20:41:15 < karlp> qyx: I've got some stm32l and mrf24j40 boards put together,
2013-03-26T20:41:21 < karlp> workign on getting contiki ported to it.
2013-03-26T20:41:28 < trepidaciousMBR> The flashing will try to make sure that a partial flash will result in an invalid checksum (although that should happen naturally ;)
2013-03-26T20:41:40 < karlp> I'd like to try the stm32w from the rfckit, but I need to find a vendor that will ship them to iceland.
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2013-03-26T20:42:11 < trepidaciousMBR> I'm thinking the bootloader will be big enough that it can start up on its own, and alert the user that they need to reflash if needed
2013-03-26T20:42:25 < karlp> in fact, I've got one of those boards watching the temperature in my brew kettle right now while I finish up the recipe for tonight
2013-03-26T20:42:27 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: what if it is valid program that just has a bug that causes it to crash before it gets to upgrade?
2013-03-26T20:42:46 < trepidaciousMBR> karlp: the stm32w looks interesting, particularly with contiki
2013-03-26T20:43:03 < karlp> yeah, neither digi nor mouser will sell them to me at all though,
2013-03-26T20:43:23 < karlp> and qfn is (to me) harder to prototype with than the L1 and a mrf24j40 module
2013-03-26T20:43:25 < jpa-> and no radio docs, right?
2013-03-26T20:43:54 < karlp> that's also why it's a "later" project
2013-03-26T20:44:29 < qyx> karlp: did you estimate/measure average current consumption of it?
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2013-03-26T20:44:59 < qyx> is it configured as zigbee end device? or just 802.15.4?
2013-03-26T20:45:02 < karlp> not yet, I've not finished doing all the sleeping I'm planning on doing.
2013-03-26T20:45:09 < karlp> just 802.15.4 raw point 2 point
2013-03-26T20:45:18 < qyx> ah
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2013-03-26T20:45:30 < karlp> this is why I want to get contiki into it.
2013-03-26T20:45:35 < karlp> an OS designed with low power in mind
2013-03-26T20:45:53 < karlp> and I can ditch my raw hacked up private packets on 802.15.4 raw and use ipv6 instead
2013-03-26T20:46:13 < trepidaciousMBR> jpa-: Yeah I was thinking about that, its tricky. The easiest approach is a "factory reset" button that will clear settings and cause the bootloader to request that the user reflashes with a new firmware. I'm not sure how you would do it automatically.
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2013-03-26T20:46:45 < karlp> but it's nice, the rx end publishs json to a MQTT broker, and then I can consume data from all the sensor nodes without having to make the sensor nodes or the rf receiver do anything special
2013-03-26T20:46:53 < trepidaciousMBR> jpa-: If the breakage causes a hang or similar, then a watchdof cojuld reset the board, and the bootloader could notice that it is booting repeatedly in too short a time, maybe
2013-03-26T20:47:54 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: i like to make the "fallback process" the same as "normal process".. i.e. if it is not too common to have to upgrade firmware, you could just always use a "press the button" way
2013-03-26T20:48:44 < trepidaciousMBR> jpa-: Yup, that would be a reasonable way to do it, I'm not entirely sure I'll get a physical button though :(
2013-03-26T20:49:12 < jpa-> i'm so happy that F4 has built-in USB bootloader
2013-03-26T20:49:25 < jpa-> i have it + hardware button for boot0 -> practically no possibility of bricking
2013-03-26T20:50:17 < barthess> jpa-: how that bootloader behaves? Like CDC device?
2013-03-26T20:50:32 < jpa-> barthess: no, DFU
2013-03-26T20:51:00 < trepidaciousMBR> jpa-: Yup, that seems the most robust approach - I'll need to support flashing over ethernet and possibly using a USB mass storage device, so I need my own bootloader. Plus this is aimed at less technical users, so no drivers etc.
2013-03-26T20:52:00 < jpa-> the built-in USB bootloader is not bad.. the drivers come from windows update (or not needed on linux/mac) and you can write a simple wrapper of the ST dll to write it
2013-03-26T20:52:09 < jpa-> but true, it won't do ethernet
2013-03-26T20:52:45 < barthess> hm.. interesting. I need to test it
2013-03-26T20:57:30 < trepidaciousMBR> jpa-: I'm a bit new to the linker stuff, I've got my ld file modified for the bootloader and user application, they seem to work fine, from the look of things they use the whole SRAM including CCM etc., but not the battery backed 4K, presumably I would need to access that directly by an address in bootloader and application, and in that case nothing else will change the contents (e.g. it won't be used for stack, memory allocation, etc.)? To do
2013-03-26T20:57:31 < trepidaciousMBR> the same thing in another part of SRAM, would I just decrease the ram len slightly in the ld file, then use an address at the end for my messages?
2013-03-26T20:58:28 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: yeah, you could do either of those
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2013-03-26T20:58:46 < jpa-> and then just    uint32_t *myfunnymemory = (uint32_t*)0x23249234;
2013-03-26T20:58:47 < trepidaciousMBR> jpa-: Thanks, I just wanted to check that was a sane approach ;)
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2013-03-26T20:59:15 < trepidaciousMBR> Cool
2013-03-26T21:00:06 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: another way would be just to jump into some function directly inside the bootloader
2013-03-26T21:00:17 < karlp> I've done exactly that for an avr bootloader, (using a special bit of memory)
2013-03-26T21:00:42 < karlp> if you get funky with linker section names, and some shared headers you can avoid any magi cnumbers too
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2013-03-26T21:01:14 < trepidaciousMBR> jpa-: Yup, that seems like it might be a good approach as well, for example if the new firmware is already loaded into my external PSRAM, I could go straight to a bootloader function that will flash it
2013-03-26T21:01:38 < trepidaciousMBR> karlp: I'll have a look at that, for now I don't mind the magic numbers to just get it working
2013-03-26T21:02:29 < jpa-> to jump into some function direct, you could put some funny function in an unused location in your vector table
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2013-03-26T21:02:48 < jpa-> otherwise you'll need a similar variable + linker script stuff to keep it in constant location
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2013-03-26T21:09:07 < rlc> ls
2013-03-26T21:10:07 < jpa-> .
2013-03-26T21:10:07 < jpa-> ..
2013-03-26T21:10:15 < jpa-> test.c
2013-03-26T21:10:17 < jpa-> Makefile
2013-03-26T21:10:38 < barthess> hard_anal.wmv
2013-03-26T21:11:01 < rlc> emeb: did you work with embedded linux before?
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2013-03-26T21:16:25 < emeb> rlc: not really. I do some work w/ Angstrom on beagleboard, but that's hardly "embedded"
2013-03-26T21:16:41 <+Steffann> That's like installing ubuntu on the rpi emeb :P
2013-03-26T21:16:55 <+Steffann> * i mean debian
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2013-03-26T21:18:54 < emeb> Steffann: yep - that's why I don't take credit for it. :)
2013-03-26T21:19:22 < emeb> That said, I have hacked the kernel to add HW drivers that weren't in the standard distro...
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2013-03-26T21:27:31 < rlc> emeb: do you know mini2440?
2013-03-26T21:28:01 < emeb> rlc: yes
2013-03-26T21:28:16 < emeb> done a little work with it, but haven't touched it in a few years.
2013-03-26T21:28:31 < rlc> emeb: I'm looking to create a kernel driver
2013-03-26T21:28:48 < emeb> for what?
2013-03-26T21:28:49 < rlc> I mean device driver
2013-03-26T21:28:54 < rlc> i2c
2013-03-26T21:29:10 < rlc> but not sure how I should proceed
2013-03-26T21:29:12 < emeb> should be I2C already available in the mini2440 kerel
2013-03-26T21:29:34 < emeb> you just need to hack the boardfile to enable it and turn on the userland node.
2013-03-26T21:29:38 < rlc> then how to use it?
2013-03-26T21:30:07 < emeb> there's user space access API via a node in /dev
2013-03-26T21:31:06 < emeb> I've got some hints on hacking the mini2440 kernel here: http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/embedded/mini2440/index.html
2013-03-26T21:31:10 < rlc> so I include the /dev/i2c in my c file?
2013-03-26T21:31:28 < emeb> you access it like a file - send commands via IOCTL
2013-03-26T21:32:18 < emeb> looks like I2C is already enabled in the default kernel, so you just need to hook it up and write code to talk to it.
2013-03-26T21:32:41 < emeb> there should be info in the linux kernel documentation directory on using the I2C API.
2013-03-26T21:35:03 < rlc> ok
2013-03-26T21:35:09 < rlc> thanks, I'll try
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2013-03-26T21:35:40 < rlc> emeb: I also need spi later. I found you wrote and spi driver before?
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2013-03-26T21:43:55 < emeb> rlc: I didn't write a spi driver, I just enabled it and wrote userspace code to use it.
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2013-03-26T21:46:38 < rlc> ah ok
2013-03-26T21:47:02 < rlc> you've got a nice website btw
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2013-03-26T21:57:06 < emeb> ty
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2013-03-26T22:09:24 < trepidaciousMBR> Is there a way to tell whether the bootloader is running just after a reset, or after it has been jumped to from the user application? Otherwise I can't tell whether there is a valid message in ram, or just something left over from before a reset...
2013-03-26T22:10:08 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: hmm.. so you are not planning to go through system reset?
2013-03-26T22:10:15 < jpa-> then you can do funny trick :)))
2013-03-26T22:10:27 < trepidaciousMBR> Well, I'm just thinking about how to do it best, I'm not sure yet :)
2013-03-26T22:11:00 < jpa-> CRC->IDR :)
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2013-03-26T22:11:34 -!- mode/##stm32 [+v dekar] by ChanServ
2013-03-26T22:11:42 < jpa-> https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/AlterBIOS/blob/master/src/alterbios.c#L38    it's silly, but that register is so useless that it is perfect for the purpose
2013-03-26T22:11:53 < trepidaciousMBR> my use case is that "normally", the system powers on, starts bootloader, bootloader checks for messages and finds none, then verifies application and jumps to it if valid. Then if the user application wants to flash, it puts a message in ram and somehow restarts the bootloader. I was thinknig by just jumping back to it.
2013-03-26T22:12:25 < jpa-> you could just check for a magic value
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2013-03-26T22:14:14 < trepidaciousMBR> I'm just a little worried about "randomly" entering flashing mode on power on
2013-03-26T22:14:35 < trepidaciousMBR> I guess it is unlikely that the magic number will be there unless it is meant to be, especially if the bootloader clears the message before booting application.
2013-03-26T22:15:05 < trepidaciousMBR> My internet connection is terrible, just waiting to retrieve that page you linked :)
2013-03-26T22:16:20 < trepidaciousMBR> That looks like what I need, thanks :)
2013-03-26T22:16:29 < jpa-> lol :D
2013-03-26T22:17:14 < jpa-> it's a funny hack :)
2013-03-26T22:17:40 < trepidaciousMBR> I thought there might be some "official" way of checking whether a reset had occurred ;)
2013-03-26T22:19:48 < trepidaciousMBR> Ah so that's actually the CRC unit, I haven't used that - and yup, I don't think I ever will :)
2013-03-26T22:20:01 < jpa-> the problem is "reset has occurred since when"
2013-03-26T22:22:46 < trepidaciousMBR> Yup that is fine, I guess if I set that IDR to non-zero, it will stay at that value until a reset, which will set it back to 0? so it seems like what I need :)
2013-03-26T22:22:53 < jpa-> yes
2013-03-26T22:23:09 < jpa-> in a way reset is simple to detect.. when it occurs, your reset vector is called.. it's you who is silly by wanting to jump there :)
2013-03-26T22:23:17 < trepidaciousMBR> go me ;)
2013-03-26T22:23:45 < trepidaciousMBR> Is there a better way of getting back to the bootloader from the application?
2013-03-26T22:30:41 <+dekar> just make the magic number 128bit entropy, that should give you a cryptographic level of certainty :)
2013-03-26T22:32:13 < jpa-> trepidaciousMBR: you could jump to another point there :)
2013-03-26T22:32:34 <+dekar> BogoMIPS        : 8.03 (stm32417)
2013-03-26T22:33:32 <+Steffann> Fancy.. dekar
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2013-03-26T23:12:49 < Laurenceb__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djq8C-UYCb0&feature=player_embedded
2013-03-26T23:12:58 < Laurenceb__> faily daily
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2013-03-26T23:33:57 <+Steffann> First of all the video is @#$%ˆ&* OLD Laurenceb__
2013-03-26T23:34:12 <+Steffann> Second: Not really a fail, just a failure.
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--- Day changed Wed Mar 27 2013
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2013-03-27T00:47:50 < Laurenceb__> http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/aboutus/organisation/
2013-03-27T00:48:00 < Laurenceb__> check out the chief executive
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2013-03-27T00:57:10 < Laurenceb__> a case of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_determinism
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2013-03-27T01:55:20 < R0b0t1> Is dev on linus feasible?
2013-03-27T01:55:43 < Erlkoenig> dev=development? yes, more than windows :P
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2013-03-27T01:57:27 < gxti> let's not be hasty now
2013-03-27T01:59:44 < R0b0t1> Well I think there was an issue with an unpublished protocol?
2013-03-27T02:01:12 < Erlkoenig> wat protocol :D
2013-03-27T02:03:18 < karlp> if you mean using the stlinkv2 on the discovery boards, that's solved enough to not be a problem.
2013-03-27T02:06:00 < Laurenceb__> inb4 "lunix"
2013-03-27T02:08:08 < Laurenceb__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE
2013-03-27T02:09:04 < Erlkoenig> how inspirational
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2013-03-27T02:15:33 < Laurenceb__> one day you could be as successful as ballmer
2013-03-27T02:16:42 < Erlkoenig> not as long as 9gag exists
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2013-03-27T04:37:02 < zyp> sup
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2013-03-27T05:15:33 < dongs> sup
2013-03-27T05:15:44 < dongs> did zyp move to israel?
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2013-03-27T05:48:53 < R0b0t1> Why would you move to israel?
2013-03-27T05:53:30 < dongs> israel is awesome
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2013-03-27T06:00:55 < dongs> lol
2013-03-27T06:00:58 < dongs> got the obscure OSD ICs
2013-03-27T06:01:01 < dongs> er OSD/PIP
2013-03-27T06:01:32 < Bird|lappy> the obscure ones?
2013-03-27T06:01:44 < Bird|lappy> *blinks* part number/datasheet link, please?
2013-03-27T06:01:45 < dongs> SDA9489X
2013-03-27T06:02:01 < dongs> really weird shit
2013-03-27T06:02:01 < dongs> lol
2013-03-27T06:06:14 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/9TD18Ta.jpg
2013-03-27T06:12:13 < dongs> im kinda interested in its side by side mode
2013-03-27T06:12:29 < dongs> might be able to ghetto some 3d camera shit for my cinemizers
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2013-03-27T07:41:17 < emeb> Meh - latest F4 board isn't coming up.
2013-03-27T07:42:12 < emeb> Vcap pins measure 1.26V, continuity is good, all VDD/VSS pins are connected. SWD can't talk to it tho.
2013-03-27T07:42:29 < emeb> Boot0 is tied to gnd with 10k.
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2013-03-27T07:47:11 < dongs> made in dicktrace?
2013-03-27T07:50:28 < emeb_mac> ya
2013-03-27T07:50:51 < dongs> aww cant blame opensauce
2013-03-27T07:51:01 < emeb_mac> :)
2013-03-27T07:51:09 < dongs> what about that vbat pin or wahtever
2013-03-27T07:51:12 < dongs> how big of a package?
2013-03-27T07:51:19 < dongs> er VPOR or whatever hte fuck it is
2013-03-27T07:51:21 < dongs> the one in corner
2013-03-27T07:51:38 < emeb_mac> 64 pin pkg (f405) Vbat = Vdd
2013-03-27T07:52:12 < emeb_mac> no Vpor on this pkg
2013-03-27T07:52:18 < dongs> ok that one doesnt have the weird pin anyway
2013-03-27T07:52:21 < dongs> i think its on 100/144
2013-03-27T07:52:29 < emeb_mac> right
2013-03-27T07:52:39 < dongs> 64pin one is pretty hard to fuck up
2013-03-27T07:53:05 < emeb_mac> I'm a pro @ fuckup :P
2013-03-27T07:54:43 < emeb_mac> so, just build up another and see if it acts the same.
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2013-03-27T08:03:49 < dongs> mhm
2013-03-27T08:03:53 < dongs> pics?
2013-03-27T08:03:53 < dongs> or is it NDA
2013-03-27T08:06:39 < R2COM> some recent stuff i did in Kicad
2013-03-27T08:06:41 < R2COM> http://imgur.com/YLwJjnq
2013-03-27T08:07:17 < dongs> looks kikad-ey
2013-03-27T08:07:30 < dongs> cuz you failed on backside silk mirror
2013-03-27T08:07:39 < R2COM> no, its just me
2013-03-27T08:08:04 < R2COM> I do it sometimes, write something on bottom_silk, and then accidentally mirror it
2013-03-27T08:08:35 < R2COM> I did this board quick, its my "dirty" prototype
2013-03-27T08:11:59 < zyp> dongs, ya
2013-03-27T08:13:04 < dongs> so which anniemay convention are you attendning
2013-03-27T08:14:22 < zyp> none, haven't heard about any
2013-03-27T08:15:08 < dongs> lol why else woudl you be here
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2013-03-27T08:15:43 < zyp> why would I go to japan for a convention?
2013-03-27T08:16:09 < dongs> well, i guess you could be here for used panties vending machiens
2013-03-27T08:16:18 < dongs> found a shop selling jewpad lcd yet?
2013-03-27T08:16:26 < dongs> akiba is about as dead as *BSD
2013-03-27T08:16:37 < dongs> all they have now is overpriced shit youcan get online for 1/2 price and power cords
2013-03-27T08:16:52 < zyp> haven't had time
2013-03-27T08:16:57 < zyp> just checked into hotel
2013-03-27T08:17:04 < dongs> my last purchase was an actual power cord
2013-03-27T08:22:44 < emeb_mac> dongs: ya - no pics cuz it's for a client.
2013-03-27T08:23:46 < dongs> fail for client!
2013-03-27T08:23:54 < dongs> my pal started using altium a week ago
2013-03-27T08:23:56 < emeb_mac> best way!
2013-03-27T08:24:21 < dongs> http://i.imgur.com/qnvUDhl.jpg
2013-03-27T08:25:00 < emeb_mac> dafuq is dat?
2013-03-27T08:25:27 < dongs> some work shit
2013-03-27T08:25:31 < dongs> usb>rs485 or something
2013-03-27T08:25:46 < R2COM> looks like altium
2013-03-27T08:26:24 < dongs> he just pirated it like a week ago and he already can do better than me in that shit
2013-03-27T08:35:47 < jpa-> so much crap for usb>rs485?
2013-03-27T08:36:15 < dongs> a lot of rs485s
2013-03-27T08:36:34 < dongs> 16 channels i think
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2013-03-27T08:48:31 < dongs> emeb_mac: did you see my cache of elite PiP chips?
2013-03-27T08:48:44 < dongs> emeb_mac: http://i.imgur.com/9TD18Ta.jpg
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2013-03-27T09:02:32 < dongs> ^ raged @ failboard i guess
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2013-03-27T10:12:48 < pelrun> bit the bullet and converted one of my vl discovery boards to blackmagic
2013-03-27T10:13:12 < pelrun> of course it turns out there's no windows binary for the dfu-tool it needs, except for on one site which is down
2013-03-27T10:13:26 < pelrun> joy
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2013-03-27T10:17:02 < jpa-> pelrun: how is the conversion done? do you have to solder some wires to the chip?
2013-03-27T10:20:07 < pelrun> http://embdev.net/articles/STM_Discovery_as_Black_Magic_Probe
2013-03-27T10:20:51 < pelrun> there's a set of jumper pads on the back of the board that convert the 4-pin jumper block to connect to the stlink mcu instead
2013-03-27T10:21:25 < pelrun> then use another stlink to program it via those pins
2013-03-27T10:21:33 < pelrun> ...
2013-03-27T10:21:52 < jpa-> ok
2013-03-27T10:22:05 < pelrun> I don't actually need the dfu-util to program the main blackmagic app when I can just program it directly *facepalm*
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2013-03-27T10:32:04 < dongs> pelrun: lol
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2013-03-27T10:36:31 < pelrun> woo, that worked
2013-03-27T10:37:03 < pelrun> dongs: danger of just blindly following the instructions because you're just after the end result and don't want to faff about
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2013-03-27T10:53:48 < dongs> pelrun: well now you've got a useless -discovery board :(
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2013-03-27T10:54:13 < jpa-> how so?
2013-03-27T10:54:23 < pelrun> no, it's up and running blackmagic now
2013-03-27T10:54:42 < pelrun> compared to the shitty, shitty stlink v1
2013-03-27T10:55:20 < dongs> can you even use that on windows?
2013-03-27T10:55:27 < pelrun> sure
2013-03-27T10:55:36 < dongs> how?
2013-03-27T10:55:45 < pelrun> it's just a usb serial port with a gdbserver behind it
2013-03-27T10:55:45 < jpa-> sure, most gcc toolchains for windows come with gdb
2013-03-27T10:56:00 < dongs> and?
2013-03-27T10:56:05 < dongs> dont you need openocd or some other aids
2013-03-27T10:56:09 < pelrun> no
2013-03-27T10:56:12 < pelrun> just gdb
2013-03-27T10:56:14 < jpa-> like gae or codesourcery
2013-03-27T10:56:26 < pelrun> give it the command to connect to the gdbserver on serial port X and you're away
2013-03-27T10:56:28 < jpa-> just   target remote COM10
2013-03-27T10:56:56 < pelrun> target extended-remote COM10 in this case, actually
2013-03-27T10:57:20 < jpa-> real men use real reset buttons and not some whimsy 'run' command
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2013-03-27T11:15:49 < pelrun> ...ahahaha
2013-03-27T11:15:55 < pelrun> gdb doesn't like anything over com4
2013-03-27T11:16:23 < pelrun> silly windows legacy bullshit
2013-03-27T11:16:28 < pelrun> at least \\.\com10 works
2013-03-27T11:17:43 < Tectu> don't use windows then
2013-03-27T11:17:50 < Tectu> dongs always recommends to use linux
2013-03-27T11:32:02 < pelrun> woooo this shit is working
2013-03-27T11:33:22 < Tectu> on linux now?
2013-03-27T11:34:55 < pelrun> haha no
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2013-03-27T12:17:29 < Laurenceb> texane?
2013-03-27T12:19:44 < jpa-> bmp
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2013-03-27T13:30:10 <+Steffanx> dekar_ awake?
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2013-03-27T14:10:50 < Laurenceb> dead in here
2013-03-27T14:11:01 < Laurenceb> in need of trolling
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2013-03-27T14:11:55 <+Steffanx> muga
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2013-03-27T14:12:58 < Laurenceb> oi
2013-03-27T14:14:33 < Laurenceb> you were supposed to tell a "lunix" joke or something
2013-03-27T14:14:56 <+Steffanx> No, trolling is doing the unexpected
2013-03-27T14:15:13 <+Steffanx> or at least.. not what people want to you to
2013-03-27T14:15:54 < Laurenceb> good point
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2013-03-27T14:47:09 < Ranewen> hey, i got water on my breadboard... will the contacts inside rust ?
2013-03-27T14:47:23 < Ranewen> or should i blow it with a dryer ?
2013-03-27T14:49:52 < jpa-> Ranewen: shouldn't be much of a problem
2013-03-27T14:50:01 < jpa-> you could put it in some warm place to dry faster
2013-03-27T14:50:17 < jpa-> i got lemon juice inside mine one time.. that did cause some problems :)
2013-03-27T14:50:49 < Ranewen> jpa-, at least you didnt have capacitance :D
2013-03-27T14:52:07 < jpa-> yeah if you put capacitance juice there it is very bad
2013-03-27T14:52:48 < Ranewen> jpa-, whatever :D
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2013-03-27T15:29:37  * Laurenceb is supervising undergrad labs at uni again...
2013-03-27T15:30:00 < Laurenceb> so far .... someone has managed to short out internal layers of a 4 layer pcb
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2013-03-27T15:30:13 < Laurenceb> someone tried supergluing parts to pcb...
2013-03-27T15:30:47 < Laurenceb> someone soldered 0402 resistor sideways on 0603 pad
2013-03-27T15:32:14 < Laurenceb> someone just overheated a cable and sorted all the conductors...
2013-03-27T15:32:19 < Laurenceb> fail academy
2013-03-27T15:32:44 < Laurenceb> ive been asked what a multimeter is
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2013-03-27T15:58:47 < emeb_mac> dongs: you got some pip chips.
2013-03-27T16:02:15 <+Steffanx> ( me goes offtopic again: just curious emeb_mac . Do you have _mac in your name for yourself or for us? )
2013-03-27T16:02:59 < emeb_mac> Steffanx: for me, so if I've got both machines in the chl at the same time.
2013-03-27T16:03:36 <+Steffanx> So you know who the one is who talks :)
2013-03-27T16:04:45 < emeb_mac> it's so hard to keep track.
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2013-03-27T17:44:49 < Fail_Academy> anyone know a good flight finder?
2013-03-27T17:44:53 < Fail_Academy> for cheap flights?
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2013-03-27T17:48:42 <+Steffanx> cheaptickets.nl * I  can hear the tune * :P
2013-03-27T17:49:07 <+Steffanx> Fail_Academy wants to visit dongs?
2013-03-27T17:53:00 < Fail_Academy> heh
2013-03-27T17:53:04 < BrainDamage> http://hackaday.com/2013/03/27/turning-pcbs-into-art/ I'm not sure if they are trolling or what
2013-03-27T17:53:07 < Fail_Academy> need to go to USA
2013-03-27T17:54:03 <+Steffanx> You won't get your greencard
2013-03-27T17:54:16 < Fail_Academy> lulwut
2013-03-27T17:54:22 < Fail_Academy> vias waiver dude
2013-03-27T17:54:34 < Fail_Academy> damn autocorrect
2013-03-27T17:55:08 < Fail_Academy> theres a charter flight search thing... somewhere
2013-03-27T17:55:11 <+Steffanx> You use auto-correct?
2013-03-27T17:55:37 <+Steffanx> Just listen to the radio for one day and you will hear at least 4 commercials about it
2013-03-27T17:58:25 < Fail_Academy> lol
2013-03-27T17:58:36 < Fail_Academy> i was looking for something non fail/scam
2013-03-27T17:59:54 < Fail_Academy> http://grumpycatpics.com/pics/24/Epic-Fail-Gay-Sign-Anti-computer-Protester-Funny-Picture.jpg
2013-03-27T18:00:44 <+Steffanx> "Images on the web are not trustworthy" "Photoshop hasn't been invented yet"
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2013-03-27T18:25:39 <+Steffanx> I hate it when Russians write interesting stuff in ... Russian
2013-03-27T18:26:05 <+Steffanx> The must have been to Fail_Academy
2013-03-27T18:27:54 < jpa-> you should learn russian
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2013-03-27T19:00:04 < emeb> Google Translate!
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2013-03-27T19:03:43 < Ranewen> where 2 upload private videos (lets assume i dont like youtube)
2013-03-27T19:05:24 < Fail_Academy> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E-l4w-DIiXk#t=195s
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2013-03-27T19:08:52 < Ranewen> Steffanx, where to upload private vids
2013-03-27T19:09:01 <+Steffanx> youtube + set private
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2013-03-27T19:12:19 < gxti> hmm, he's found a way around my url filter
2013-03-27T19:12:28 <+Steffanx> Nick change gxti ?
2013-03-27T19:12:34 < gxti> a master tactician
2013-03-27T19:12:41 <+Steffanx> Fail_Academy ftw
2013-03-27T19:16:01 < Ranewen> i like those russian vids
2013-03-27T19:16:22 <+Steffanx> Why?
2013-03-27T19:16:35 <+Steffanx> jpa- i should learn finnish too
2013-03-27T19:17:15 < Ranewen> it makes me wonder how much stuff isn't on cam
2013-03-27T19:18:02 <+Steffanx> Thorn also has a dash cam?
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2013-03-27T19:20:02 < Ranewen> a car did 360' once in front of me..
2013-03-27T19:20:07 < Ranewen> 2 bad i didnt record it
2013-03-27T19:20:19 < gxti> i want to make one, front and rear
2013-03-27T19:20:29 <+Steffanx> make.. buy :P
2013-03-27T19:20:32 < gxti> plus gps logging and interface to the car
2013-03-27T19:20:42 < gxti> for fun, so no not buy
2013-03-27T19:21:24 < Ranewen> i wanna make my car shoot lasers
2013-03-27T19:21:36 < Ranewen> and rockets
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2013-03-27T19:32:44 < emeb> OK - here's a strange one...
2013-03-27T19:33:13 < emeb> bringing up a new F405 board - STLINK-Util can't see it, but BMP does.
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2013-03-27T19:45:21 < emeb> Aha! Old software version on STLIN-Util. Updated and everything works.
2013-03-27T19:46:00 < emeb> Looks like the old version didn't recognize the newer chip revision on the F405 - previously I'd had all rev A, the new board is rev Z
2013-03-27T19:46:05  * karlp cheers
2013-03-27T19:46:27 < emeb> :)
2013-03-27T19:46:52 < emeb> that was a conundrum - kept looking at my board, couldn't find anything wrong.
2013-03-27T19:47:40 <+Steffanx> :P
2013-03-27T19:50:23 < Fail_Academy> now you can use the ART accel
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2013-03-27T20:03:57 < Ranewen> my private vids are ready to show ^^
2013-03-27T20:06:25 <+Steffanx> show them
2013-03-27T20:07:53 < gxti> gross
2013-03-27T20:08:26 <+Steffanx> dirty minded gxti
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2013-03-27T20:08:31 < Ranewen> comming
2013-03-27T20:08:35 <+Steffanx> LOL :P
2013-03-27T20:08:42 < Ranewen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFkfq8sUhqg&feature=youtu.be
2013-03-27T20:08:43 < gxti> communicating with whom Ranewen
2013-03-27T20:08:46 < gxti> :p
2013-03-27T20:09:02 <+Steffanx> they write 'cumming' not comming Ranewen
2013-03-27T20:09:20 <+Steffanx> Now we talk about dirty.. dirty_d is really killed by his copter? :D
2013-03-27T20:09:27 < Ranewen> you are not worthy Steffanx
2013-03-27T20:09:42 < gxti> snap
2013-03-27T20:10:06 <+Steffanx> Talk english next time Ranewen
2013-03-27T20:10:55 <+Steffanx> I won't say what is in my mind right now ( after watching the video )
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2013-03-27T20:11:10 < Ranewen> on the end of the vid you see wanted effect
2013-03-27T20:11:20 <+Steffanx> What exactly is that Ranewen ?
2013-03-27T20:11:28 < Ranewen> Steffanx, for mixing liquids
2013-03-27T20:11:36 < Ranewen> you can mix drinks ?
2013-03-27T20:11:55 <+Steffanx> Why based on range detectors?
2013-03-27T20:11:59 <+Steffanx> *sensors
2013-03-27T20:12:42 <+Steffanx> You can change the amount of each drink with that?
2013-03-27T20:12:54 < Ranewen> yes
2013-03-27T20:12:59 <+Steffanx> :D :D
2013-03-27T20:13:04 < Ranewen> why?
2013-03-27T20:13:22 <+Steffanx> You made it, you say why
2013-03-27T20:13:29 < Ranewen> i got gui
2013-03-27T20:13:34 < Ranewen> il upload it w8
2013-03-27T20:13:42 < Ranewen> i wrote it in codeblocks..
2013-03-27T20:13:43 < Ranewen> its nice
2013-03-27T20:14:15 <+Steffanx> stm32 based?
2013-03-27T20:14:32 < Ranewen> not quite
2013-03-27T20:14:36 < Ranewen> shitduino base
2013-03-27T20:14:38 < Ranewen> d
2013-03-27T20:14:42 <+Steffanx> tarduino
2013-03-27T20:14:54 < Ranewen> ok
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2013-03-27T20:15:29 < Ranewen> again, only dip avr's here
2013-03-27T20:15:34 < Ranewen> i see no dip arms
2013-03-27T20:16:15 <+Steffanx> You dont need dip, really
2013-03-27T20:16:59 < Ranewen> you suggest me to learn avr by using a debugger ?
2013-03-27T20:17:04 < Ranewen> i dont like it
2013-03-27T20:17:16 < Ranewen> **ARM
2013-03-27T20:18:17 < gxti> there is a dip cortex-m0 from lpc
2013-03-27T20:18:29 < gxti> what does debugger have to do with dip?
2013-03-27T20:18:33 < [1]MrMobius> yes, lpc1114
2013-03-27T20:18:52 < gxti> and how is having a debugger worse than not having a debugger like tarduino
2013-03-27T20:19:03 < Ranewen> right... i asked...
2013-03-27T20:19:15 < gxti> you can still use printfs like a dork if you want
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2013-03-27T20:31:32 < Robint91> hi all
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2013-03-27T20:37:27 < Ranewen> Steffanx, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD_hJMet-zM&feature=youtu.be
2013-03-27T20:38:22 <+Steffanx> You should (low pass) filter it a bit i think.
2013-03-27T20:38:49 <+Steffanx> but fancy gui. It's really meant for a disco/bar? :)
2013-03-27T20:39:38 < Ranewen> Steffanx, not final version...
2013-03-27T20:39:43 < Ranewen> but can be
2013-03-27T20:41:28 < Ranewen> btw. im using a low pass filter already... to save last position of the hand
2013-03-27T20:41:32 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2013-03-27T20:41:58 < Ranewen> so when i remove hand from the "beam", it remembers the state
2013-03-27T20:43:01 <+Steffanx> Yes, but it shouldn't go from 'bounce' like it now does :)
2013-03-27T20:43:09 <+Steffanx> note to self: stop using :)
2013-03-27T20:43:34 <+Steffanx> This is a uni project or .. high school?
2013-03-27T20:43:53 < Ranewen> hs
2013-03-27T20:44:43 <+Steffanx> of course, you asked about the uni i go to
2013-03-27T20:45:09 <+Steffanx> Going to do Computer Sience or Electrical engineering?
2013-03-27T20:45:16 <+Steffanx> or somthing totally different?
2013-03-27T20:45:22 < Ranewen> :#
2013-03-27T20:45:44 <+Steffanx> Go to Fail_Academy .. study physics
2013-03-27T20:46:00 <+Steffanx> I was wondering in what you plan to study after this Ranewen :)
2013-03-27T20:46:19 < Ranewen> il travel to japan
2013-03-27T20:46:26 <+Steffanx> No study?
2013-03-27T20:46:30 <+Steffanx> after that
2013-03-27T20:46:47 < Ranewen> trolling you
2013-03-27T20:46:48 <+Steffanx> ( man, everyone wants to visit dongs / jappyland )
2013-03-27T20:48:33 <+Steffanx> Its soo hard to have a serious conversation in here ( or on the web in general )
2013-03-27T20:48:37 -!- jon1012 [~jon@foresight/developer/jon1012] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2013-03-27T20:48:40 < Ranewen> u started it
2013-03-27T20:49:31 <+Steffanx> I haven't said something less serious the last hour .. ( after 19:08 )
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2013-03-27T20:50:00 < Ranewen> ok
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2013-03-27T20:50:47 <+Steffanx> Is that a last year project?
2013-03-27T20:50:48 < Ranewen> i will study at either electrical/computer, or mechanical uni
2013-03-27T20:50:53 < Ranewen> Steffanx, yes it is
2013-03-27T20:51:01 <+Steffanx> As it doesn't look like the average hs project :)
2013-03-27T20:51:51 < Ranewen> Steffanx, how does average look like
2013-03-27T20:52:34 <+Steffanx> Not like that, for sure
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2013-03-27T20:53:07 <+Steffanx> I mean, not like the average (not-last year) project
2013-03-27T20:54:18 < Ranewen> am i above ? or bellow the line ?
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2013-03-27T20:55:37 <+Steffanx> Above the average (not-last year) project, it looks nice for a last year project ( i guess )
2013-03-27T20:55:58 <+Steffanx> In the good 'old' times i made a line following robot with a homemade colour sensor as last year project
2013-03-27T20:56:20 <+Steffanx> I didn't know anything about how to program in C and not much about electronics either.
2013-03-27T20:57:08 < Ranewen> huh
2013-03-27T20:57:36 <+Steffanx> huh what?
2013-03-27T20:59:16 < Ranewen> its better that way
2013-03-27T20:59:23 -!- CRF_Peter [~Peter@193.11.200.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2013-03-27T20:59:32 < Ranewen> to not know anything. and learn in university..
2013-03-27T21:00:13 <+Steffanx> i prefer to learn things the hobby bobby way though
2013-03-27T21:00:35 <+Steffanx> Nothing beats trial and error
2013-03-27T21:02:25 < Ranewen> Steffanx, yes, me 2, but then you get worser results @ school
2013-03-27T21:11:23 < Tectu> meh, there's a way to find out how a define is defined, right?
2013-03-27T21:11:32 <+Steffanx> Yes
2013-03-27T21:11:37 <+Steffanx> Or .. how?
2013-03-27T21:11:44 < Tectu> now it's how ;-)
2013-03-27T21:12:13 < Ranewen> ??
2013-03-27T21:12:50 <+Steffanx> Is there more than one way Tectu ?
2013-03-27T21:13:15 < Tectu> Steffanx, I dunno, is there more?
2013-03-27T21:13:25 <+Steffanx> #define mydefine .. not more not less :)
2013-03-27T21:13:39 < Tectu> <Tectu> meh, there's a way to find out how a define is defined, right?
2013-03-27T21:13:53 < Tectu> I want to check what it's state while compile time
2013-03-27T21:15:06 <+Steffanx> just an #if ?
2013-03-27T21:15:14 < Tectu> wtf?
2013-03-27T21:15:20 <+Steffanx> or is that not what you mean?
2013-03-27T21:15:30 < Tectu> Steffanx, I want to know which value the compiler sees
2013-03-27T21:16:12 <+Steffanx> Oh, YOU :)
2013-03-27T21:16:25 < Tectu> yes ^^
2013-03-27T21:18:17 <+Steffanx> Use the ugly #warning ?
2013-03-27T21:18:43 < Tectu> -.-'
2013-03-27T21:18:48 <+Steffanx> oh, that doesnt work i see
2013-03-27T21:18:52 <+Steffanx> GCC why o why
2013-03-27T21:21:44 < gxti> dunno lol
2013-03-27T21:22:04 < gxti> you can run with -E and it will regurgitate the preprocessor output
2013-03-27T21:22:13 < Tectu> oh dear...
2013-03-27T21:22:18 < gxti> it's oogly
2013-03-27T21:22:19 < Tectu> yeah, I guess I won't do that :)
2013-03-27T21:22:20 <+Steffanx> Why on earth you want that anyway Tectu ?
2013-03-27T21:22:27 <+Steffanx> Just open the file and check :P
2013-03-27T21:22:40 < Tectu> Steffanx, too much #if #redefine #undef and shit in there man
2013-03-27T21:22:40 < gxti> your facetiousness is counterproductive
2013-03-27T21:22:40 <+Steffanx> or give the constant as parameter to gcc
2013-03-27T21:22:53 < Tectu> aaah,   -D ?
2013-03-27T21:22:57 < gxti> no
2013-03-27T21:23:21 < gxti> Steffanx: macros are often used for nontrivial stuff
2013-03-27T21:23:29 <+Steffanx> Magic you mean
2013-03-27T21:23:33 < gxti> like constants for configuring PLL
2013-03-27T21:23:44 <+Steffanx> Tectu, .. tell me this is not that OS you are in love with
2013-03-27T21:23:49 < gxti> with bounds checks to make sure it's within range, only problem is the error can't tell you what the wrong value is
2013-03-27T21:23:56 < Tectu> Steffanx, it is -.-'
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2013-03-27T21:27:22 <+Steffanx> Tectu: Next time how should not ask how a define is defined, but how to show the value of the define during compile time :P
2013-03-27T21:27:29 <+Steffanx> -first how
2013-03-27T21:27:34 <+Steffanx> +you
2013-03-27T21:27:37 < Tectu> will do, Steffanx, will do :)
2013-03-27T21:29:28 <+Steffanx> thanks
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2013-03-27T21:32:23 < Tectu> Steffanx, no problem, I love you too!
2013-03-27T21:32:37 <+Steffanx> Don't go that way please
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2013-03-27T21:37:01 < Tectu> Steffanx, sure!
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2013-03-27T21:48:56 < Laurenceb__> so i discovered why the students are so perman00by
2013-03-27T21:49:02 < Laurenceb__> they are all on drugs
2013-03-27T21:49:25 < BrainDamage> > implying you aren't
2013-03-27T21:49:32 < Laurenceb__> lol
2013-03-27T21:49:44 < Laurenceb__> one of them forgot where he was today
2013-03-27T21:50:13 < Tectu> lol, you're working on a similar place as I am, I guess
2013-03-27T21:50:14 < emeb> what drugs?
2013-03-27T21:51:02 < Laurenceb__> methadone
2013-03-27T21:51:15 < Laurenceb__> and one of them apparently has a sleeping pill issue
2013-03-27T21:51:25 < emeb> oh dear. coming off heroin?
2013-03-27T21:51:43 < Laurenceb__> i think so
2013-03-27T21:51:49 < Laurenceb__> all of them seem to be on weed
2013-03-27T21:52:08 < Erlkoenig> today i learnt at uni what an abstract class is
2013-03-27T21:52:31 < emeb> an art class where they teach a certain kind of painting?
2013-03-27T21:52:38 < Laurenceb__> this explains why none of them could work out the pinout of a connector using a multimeter
2013-03-27T21:52:47 < emeb> brainrot
2013-03-27T21:52:50 < Laurenceb__> they couldnt count in a coherent manner
2013-03-27T21:53:11 < emeb> college students? what course of study?
2013-03-27T21:53:39 < Laurenceb__> E.E. Eng
2013-03-27T21:53:55 < Laurenceb__> final year project group
2013-03-27T21:54:04 < Erlkoenig> (20:52:31) emeb: an art class where they teach a certain kind of painting? <-- "Data structures and algorithms"
2013-03-27T21:54:06 < emeb> meh. Time to hire more hard-working Chinese and Indian engineers.
2013-03-27T21:54:06 < Laurenceb__> they are supposed to graduate in a few months
2013-03-27T21:54:19 < Laurenceb__> half of them are indian
2013-03-27T21:54:19 < Erlkoenig> Laurenceb__: are you a prof or tutor or something?
2013-03-27T21:54:48 < Laurenceb__> im supervising the project workshop for extra cash/ as they couldn't find anyone else
2013-03-27T21:54:59 < emeb> Sad.
2013-03-27T21:55:31 < BrainDamage> >  as they couldn't find anyone else
2013-03-27T21:56:22 < emeb> When your only tool is Laurencb__ , all problems start to look like... ?
2013-03-27T21:56:43 < emeb> daycare for drug addicts?
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2013-03-27T21:56:59 < Laurenceb__> lol
2013-03-27T21:57:28 < emeb> "Here's a soldering iron - don't grab that end of it."
2013-03-27T21:57:45 < Robint91> emeb, "too late"
2013-03-27T21:58:02 < Erlkoenig> our math test has 70% fail quote, there is one 2.0, and four 2.3 (of i got one), and the rest is worse. (1.0 = best, 4.0 = worst)
2013-03-27T21:58:10 < Erlkoenig> *of which
2013-03-27T21:58:30 < Erlkoenig> emeb: which end? :>
2013-03-27T21:58:32 < emeb> "Can you count to 10? 0, 1, 10 - Yay, you're a digital design engineer!"
2013-03-27T21:58:58 < emeb> Erlkoenig: not the pointy end.
2013-03-27T21:59:15 < emeb> Of the six ends of a cat, five are pointy.
2013-03-27T21:59:29 < Erlkoenig> http://imgace.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/handed-most-dangerous-weapon-in-galaxy2.png   like this?
2013-03-27T21:59:51 < emeb> exactly
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2013-03-27T22:00:07 < emeb> where's the safety on this thing?
2013-03-27T22:00:24 < gxti> cardinal 'ends' or all protrusions? :p
2013-03-27T22:01:22 < emeb> "Don't get technical with me" since we're in a Star Wars mood.
2013-03-27T22:01:45 < Erlkoenig> what about getting physical?
2013-03-27T22:01:58 < Robint91> http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/where/
2013-03-27T22:02:08 < Robint91> voyager is comming back
2013-03-27T22:02:11 < Robint91> w00t
2013-03-27T22:02:57 < emeb> Wasn't there a bad Star Trek movie about that?
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2013-03-27T22:03:35 < Laurenceb__> haha
2013-03-27T22:03:49 < Laurenceb__> yeah i saw it once.. forgot the name :(
2013-03-27T22:04:17 < emeb> IIRC that was the 1st movie - just "Star Trek - The Motion Picture" or something.
2013-03-27T22:04:44 < emeb> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079945/?ref_=fn_al_tt_3
2013-03-27T22:04:53 <+Steffanx> Are we talking about old crp again?
2013-03-27T22:05:14 < emeb> 1979 - before Steffanx was born, so it must be old crap.
2013-03-27T22:05:32 < emeb> Neophile.
2013-03-27T22:05:34 <+Steffanx> Yes, you are old crap emeb :P
2013-03-27T22:05:49 < emeb> Look up old crap in the dictionary - picture of me. :P
2013-03-27T22:06:42 < Laurenceb__> http://www.sayagain.co.uk/b3tapix/images/tescos.gif
2013-03-27T22:06:57 < emeb> lol
2013-03-27T22:07:23 <+Steffanx> That is what i mean. Even for 1979 that fight was sooo bad
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2013-03-27T22:08:06 <+Steffanx> The movie Alien is also from that year, and 1k times much beter
2013-03-27T22:14:50 < Robint91> damm
2013-03-27T22:14:51 < Robint91> http://i.imgur.com/ItrZ08o.png
2013-03-27T22:15:05 < Robint91> thank you cable internet
2013-03-27T22:26:28 <+Steffanx> No download limit Robint91 ? :P
2013-03-27T22:26:35 < Robint91> Steffanx, yes
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2013-03-27T22:27:49 <+Steffanx> Don't you have that in belgium anymore?
2013-03-27T22:30:14 < Robint91> Steffanx, we evolved
2013-03-27T22:30:34 <+Steffanx> woa
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2013-03-27T22:38:17 < Robint91> Steffanx, new max, 7MB/S
2013-03-27T22:39:14 <+Steffanx> I'm happy with the 40Mbit I/we now have, instead of the 4Mbit ADSL we had a until a few months ago :)
2013-03-27T22:39:44 < Erlkoenig> 100mbit up+down
2013-03-27T22:46:43 < Ranewen> milibits = fun
2013-03-27T22:47:32 <+Steffanx> I knew it
2013-03-27T22:47:41 <+Steffanx> That's why i write an M in here :)
2013-03-27T22:47:51 <+Steffanx> *-in
2013-03-27T22:48:01 < Erlkoenig> MegaBits
2013-03-27T22:48:09 <+Steffanx> *mbit ..
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2013-03-27T23:13:06 < Ranewen> Steffanx, ^^
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2013-03-27T23:52:45 < upgrdman> i have 15Mbps... fell like im practically in a third world country
2013-03-27T23:56:55 < GargantuaSauce__> i have 20 down but my upload is so shit that i think it's usually the limiting factor for downloads
--- Day changed Thu Mar 28 2013
2013-03-28T00:00:08 < GargantuaSauce__> i'll be watching a youtube video and my roommate will complain about his ping in tribes skyrocketing
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2013-03-28T00:09:57 <+Steffanx> that's how it worked here too GargantuaSauce
2013-03-28T00:15:07 < Ranewen> quiet
2013-03-28T00:16:14 < Ranewen> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2604728099.png
2013-03-28T00:21:41 <+Steffanx> Yeah like that Ranewen :)
2013-03-28T00:22:06 < Ranewen> we must act !
2013-03-28T00:22:09 < Ranewen> http://vimeo.com/35347197#
2013-03-28T00:23:03 < GargantuaSauce__> that thing is pretty funny
2013-03-28T00:23:14 < GargantuaSauce__> i am highly amused by the quick scroll through the code
2013-03-28T00:23:24 < GargantuaSauce__> hundreds of lines of the same function being called over and over
2013-03-28T00:23:25 < GargantuaSauce__> #arduino
2013-03-28T00:25:28 < Erlkoenig> that's how the usual arduino code looks
2013-03-28T00:25:34 < Erlkoenig> because arrays are overrated
2013-03-28T00:25:53 < dongs> emeb: i sure did
2013-03-28T00:26:58 < Ranewen> you didnt get the point
2013-03-28T00:27:00 < emeb> Just that bit of cut tape?
2013-03-28T00:27:36 < gxti> it's optimized!
2013-03-28T00:27:39 < dongs> i only got 10 pcs cause I had to couple them with ADI's RGB>CVBS conversion chips and those were more expensive
2013-03-28T00:28:00 < emeb> ADI chips aren't cheap.
2013-03-28T00:28:02 < Ranewen> evening dongs
2013-03-28T00:28:44 < emeb> dongs: I figured out the F405 fail on my new board.
2013-03-28T00:28:49 < dongs> o yea?
2013-03-28T00:28:50 < dongs> what was it
2013-03-28T00:28:56 < emeb> old STLINK software on Win7
2013-03-28T00:29:05 < emeb> didn't recognize Rev Z chips.
2013-03-28T00:29:12 < emeb> update to latest fixed it.
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2013-03-28T00:29:28 < dongs> oh
2013-03-28T00:29:35 < dongs> i think this will be appropriate:
2013-03-28T00:29:37 < dongs> FUCK STLINK; STLINK SUX; STLINK IS DYING; STLINK IS DEAD TO ME; STLINK HIT WTC
2013-03-28T00:29:43 < emeb> :)
2013-03-28T00:29:48 < GargantuaSauce__> do you have a macro for that
2013-03-28T00:29:51 <+Steffanx> dongs dongs take it easy
2013-03-28T00:29:53 < dongs> i do, i do.
2013-03-28T00:30:02 < gxti> damn, i thought you typed those out
2013-03-28T00:30:11 < emeb> For giggles I tried BMP and it worked. Light went on over my head...
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2013-03-28T00:32:31 < Laurenceb__> dongs: you need something new to say
2013-03-28T00:33:24 < Erlkoenig> that would involve creativity
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2013-03-28T00:55:52 < Tectu> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=zoidberg+curve
2013-03-28T00:55:57 < Tectu> curve? Why not Zoidberg?
2013-03-28T00:57:08 < dongs> Tectu: try hitler curve
2013-03-28T00:57:27 < Tectu> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=hitler+curve
2013-03-28T00:57:28 < Erlkoenig> teh power of B-Splines? :D
2013-03-28T00:57:30 < Tectu> no shit dongs
2013-03-28T00:58:13 < Tectu> dongs, do you know if wolphram alpha does them himself or greps them from the net?
2013-03-28T00:58:33 < dongs> no they have a paid employee sitting there drawing hitler faces
2013-03-28T00:58:47 < Erlkoenig> grab an image, apply some filters, recognize lines, generate interpolation
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2013-03-28T01:01:22 < Tectu> any good tutorials on how to draw new components in kicad?
2013-03-28T01:01:37 < R2COM> there are online
2013-03-28T01:02:01 < R2COM> drawing new components in Kicad is awful though
2013-03-28T01:07:47 < dongs> why the fuck would you be using kikecad, Tectu
2013-03-28T01:08:09 < Tectu> because it's fucking free man
2013-03-28T01:08:49 < dongs> yeah? free as in aids, sure.
2013-03-28T01:08:56 < dongs> so is dicktrace for the kinda shit you'll be making
2013-03-28T01:09:42 < Ranewen> what do you use dongs
2013-03-28T01:09:52 < ds2> just use eagle :D
2013-03-28T01:09:54  * ds2 ducks
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2013-03-28T01:13:48 < R2COM> I do use Cadence Allegro PCB
2013-03-28T01:14:00 < R2COM> and Kicad just for some toying around sometimes
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2013-03-28T02:24:40 < gxti> lunix fun, i plugged some BMPs into a server upstairs to monitor some boards and they keep locking up the process that's connected to the ACM
2013-03-28T02:24:55 < gxti> worked fine on my desktop. i blame redhat.
2013-03-28T02:26:03 < Ranewen> anyone into codeblocks ?
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2013-03-28T02:26:30 <+Steffanx> Isn't that just another c/c++ IDE?
2013-03-28T02:26:57 < Ranewen> ye
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2013-03-28T02:27:09 < Ranewen> i remade the code for my project...
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2013-03-28T02:27:38 < dongs> visual studio is the best IDE
2013-03-28T02:27:39 < Ranewen> i made the sensor readouts faster, but the PC gui doesn't seem to like that speed
2013-03-28T02:27:46 < Ranewen> dongs, DO NOT TROLL ME
2013-03-28T02:27:53 < gxti> ...
2013-03-28T02:27:54 < dongs> even atmel knows it since they are using it for their atmel studio 6
2013-03-28T02:28:15 < Ranewen> why is noone using atmel's arm's ?
2013-03-28T02:28:41 <+Steffanx> dont ask in a stm32 channel :P
2013-03-28T02:29:02 < Ranewen> Steffanx, exactly
2013-03-28T02:29:17 < Ranewen> they got non crippled ide.
2013-03-28T02:29:28 < R2COM> one of the reasons technical specs I guess, no FPU in same as stm32f4 chip
2013-03-28T02:29:34 < R2COM> and 120MHz instead of 168
2013-03-28T02:29:43 < dongs> atmel arms suck dick
2013-03-28T02:29:44 < R2COM> another reason, probably they dont make as many chips?
2013-03-28T02:29:49 < dongs> terrible peripherals too
2013-03-28T02:30:06 < Ranewen> they should stick to crapduino
2013-03-28T02:30:11 < Ranewen> and avr's
2013-03-28T02:30:34 < R2COM> so any company in US which makes chips comparable to stm32f4?
2013-03-28T02:30:53 < R2COM> mainly FPU,and at least 150MHz speed, and same stack of peripherals
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2013-03-28T02:30:59 < R2COM> I think I did not find one
2013-03-28T02:31:04 < R2COM> (and same price too)
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2013-03-28T02:33:00 < Ranewen> ok..
2013-03-28T02:33:41 < Ranewen> got mine anwser.. st is the best
2013-03-28T02:33:50 < R2COM> ok
2013-03-28T02:34:07 < R2COM> with good tools
2013-03-28T02:34:36 < R2COM> ST is italian/french stuff I guess
2013-03-28T02:35:36 < GargantuaSauce__> yeah i am pretty sure the f4 is somewhat unique as far as its power and peripherals go
2013-03-28T02:35:39 <+Steffanx> You can read wikipedia very well R2COM :)
2013-03-28T02:35:49 < R2COM> I did
2013-03-28T02:36:27 < Ranewen> what if someone hacked wikipedia ?
2013-03-28T02:36:33 < GargantuaSauce__> some TI stuff gets close but it jumps over to more DSP and SoC-ey products above a certain clock speed
2013-03-28T02:37:03 < R2COM> TI also gives free tool support up to some extent
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2013-03-28T02:38:05 < dongs> free tools
2013-03-28T02:38:11 < dongs> this cha nnel is ful of htem
2013-03-28T02:38:18 < GargantuaSauce__> that's Free tools
2013-03-28T02:38:45 < R2COM> well for some toying around, for serious project of course one gets full version
2013-03-28T02:39:28 <+Steffanx> dongs you are our free too aswell
2013-03-28T02:39:31 <+Steffanx> *tool
2013-03-28T02:40:33 < Ranewen> Steffanx, when your mommas need help you call him...
2013-03-28T02:40:54 < R2COM> Im using fucktons of big eda packages, I guess acquiring TI's full IDE wouldnt be problem if I really need it
2013-03-28T02:45:35 < upgrdman> hmmm. if i ever teach a logic design class i might be a sadist and make students implement floating point math on a breadboard with transistors....
2013-03-28T02:46:01 < upgrdman> to220 transistors
2013-03-28T02:48:03 < R2COM> anyone using good pcb cutting tool? (like gulliotine )
2013-03-28T02:48:19 < R2COM> I think they are around 400$ or so
2013-03-28T02:48:40 < R2COM> also I'm wondering how well would they do on brittle Rogers material..
2013-03-28T02:49:26 < dongs> R2COM: i got some pcb cutter saw
2013-03-28T02:49:33 < R2COM> rotary tool?
2013-03-28T02:49:34 < dongs> http://www.hozan.co.jp/E/catalog/Metal_working/K110.html
2013-03-28T02:49:34 < dongs> this
2013-03-28T02:49:36 < dongs> no
2013-03-28T02:49:38 < dongs> desktop
2013-03-28T02:49:56 < R2COM> it generates lots of dust ?
2013-03-28T02:50:04 < dongs> it sucks it in
2013-03-28T02:50:06 < efuentes> Hi everyone
2013-03-28T02:50:12 < dongs> it has a vacucum shit insnide
2013-03-28T02:50:12 < efuentes> where is this channel logged?
2013-03-28T02:50:17 < R2COM> how much it costs
2013-03-28T02:50:28 < R2COM> dont see price on webpage
2013-03-28T02:50:36 < dongs> it was pretty spendy if I remember
2013-03-28T02:50:38 < dongs> around300-ish
2013-03-28T02:50:44 < Ranewen> R2COM, there is a cheaper dirty version
2013-03-28T02:50:45 < R2COM> 300$ hmm
2013-03-28T02:50:50 <+Steffanx> efuentes, say zlog
2013-03-28T02:50:54 < R2COM> Ranewen: link?
2013-03-28T02:50:54 < efuentes> zlog
2013-03-28T02:50:55 < zlog> efuentes: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-27.html
2013-03-28T02:51:08 < efuentes> Steffanx, thanks for that
2013-03-28T02:51:17 < efuentes> didn't realize zlog was a bot
2013-03-28T02:51:17 < R2COM> dongs: how thin is cutline?
2013-03-28T02:51:56 < R2COM> hmmm wait
2013-03-28T02:52:01 < R2COM> 16cm by 16cm
2013-03-28T02:52:02 < dongs> R2COM: like 0.5mm or so, the diamond cut disk is pretty thin. i can measure exactly if you want
2013-03-28T02:52:03 < R2COM> lol
2013-03-28T02:52:12 < dongs> yeah, work area isnt huge
2013-03-28T02:52:17 < R2COM> yeap...
2013-03-28T02:52:22 < R2COM> I'll have some baord soon
2013-03-28T02:52:27 < R2COM> 10" by 16"
2013-03-28T02:52:48 < R2COM> thinking how to design it (there will be many different stuff, which are separate PCBs)
2013-03-28T02:53:00 < R2COM> and board will be relatively brittle compared to traditional FR4
2013-03-28T02:53:18 < dongs> R2COM: this is bigger version http://www.hozan.co.jp/E/catalog/Metal_working/K210.html
2013-03-28T02:53:37 < dongs> but yeah its pretty spendy
2013-03-28T02:53:44 < dongs> probably not worth it for a one-off :)
2013-03-28T02:54:00 < R2COM> well... not one-off, but well yea
2013-03-28T02:54:09 < R2COM> so you say there is absolutely like NO dust coming at you at all?
2013-03-28T02:54:26 < Ranewen> R2COM, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzRSE-ZMdR8&feature=player_embedded
2013-03-28T02:54:45 < R2COM> homemade...
2013-03-28T02:55:31 < R2COM> useless shit
2013-03-28T02:55:36 < R2COM> no isolation from dust
2013-03-28T02:55:43 < R2COM> if I were to do it I'd just use my dremel
2013-03-28T02:55:52 < R2COM> its just when I use dremel whole room is in fiberglass dust
2013-03-28T02:56:05 < Ranewen> R2COM, vacuum cleaner ?
2013-03-28T02:56:10 < Ranewen> bellow it ?
2013-03-28T02:56:15 < Ranewen> or above it ?
2013-03-28T02:56:17 < R2COM> nah... you still will breathe some of it
2013-03-28T02:56:42 < Ranewen> why not make a box, and dremel in it
2013-03-28T02:57:09 < R2COM> like a box with plestiglass, with those glove like entries? :)
2013-03-28T02:57:30 < Ranewen> now your talking
2013-03-28T02:57:37 < R2COM> hmmmm
2013-03-28T02:57:53 < Ranewen> no?
2013-03-28T02:57:58 < R2COM> cheap solution... and those glove like stuff can be some sort of cheap matter bought from home depot or so
2013-03-28T02:58:17 < Ranewen> very cheap...
2013-03-28T02:58:17 < dongs> sounds pretty good
2013-03-28T02:58:19 < R2COM> just build box once, and use it for shit like that
2013-03-28T02:58:25 < dongs> like a sandblastinc cage or whatever
2013-03-28T02:58:43 < Ranewen> you can even sand things in it :D
2013-03-28T02:58:45 < R2COM> also no need then to wear a protective eyewear and maybe even mask, if box is well isolated
2013-03-28T02:58:50 < dongs> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7104872-0-large.jpg here you go
2013-03-28T02:59:17 < R2COM> nowadays people patent anything, even some obvious shit...
2013-03-28T03:00:05 < R2COM> so all you need is a box, and two condoms for large dick
2013-03-28T03:00:22 < Ranewen> condoms r weak
2013-03-28T03:00:34 < Ranewen> dust and sand may damage it...
2013-03-28T03:00:44 < Ranewen> id go for more rubberized gloves
2013-03-28T03:00:56 < R2COM> anyhow, seriously I guess it wont be hard to find appropriate material
2013-03-28T03:01:02 < R2COM> its just, it has to be in a right shape too
2013-03-28T03:01:44 < R2COM> box of plexiglass with those cuts, really easy
2013-03-28T03:01:45 < R2COM> and cheap.
2013-03-28T03:01:50 < R2COM> you can even put lights in it
2013-03-28T03:02:02 < R2COM> and make it cool, also wont take much space at all!
2013-03-28T03:02:28 <+Steffanx> You can also dont care? You'll die anyway :P
2013-03-28T03:03:27 < R2COM> OK
2013-03-28T03:03:30 < R2COM> I found solution
2013-03-28T03:03:36 < R2COM> buy some cheap sturdy rubber gloves
2013-03-28T03:03:45 < R2COM> and two rubber flexible pipes
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2013-03-28T03:04:34 < Ranewen> gloves, rubber, pipes, is this a stm32 channel
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2013-03-28T07:17:38 < dongs> oh, fuck  http://www.semtech.com/gennum-acquisition.html
2013-03-28T07:22:22 < emeb_mac> why's that bad?
2013-03-28T07:23:03 < dongs> well, they';ll probably kill off gennum ASI shit im using
2013-03-28T07:23:13 < dongs> and i sure as hell dont wanna redesign
2013-03-28T07:24:10 < dongs> on the positive side
2013-03-28T07:24:15 < dongs> now digikey stocks the stuff.
2013-03-28T07:25:15 < emeb_mac> as I recall, ASI was fairly specialized stuff - back when I was working on digital video we had to design our own ASI using FPGAs and custom PLLs.
2013-03-28T07:26:55 < emeb_mac> and in other news - I found a bug in the StdPeriph library code for I2S setup.
2013-03-28T07:27:18 < emeb_mac> it assumes that the I2S PLL is always driven buy the HSE.
2013-03-28T07:27:38 < emeb_mac> so if you use the HSI then it computes the sample rate incorrectly. Yay!
2013-03-28T07:28:15 < emeb_mac> easy to fix, but requires digging into stm32f4xx_spi.c and changing some macro references.
2013-03-28T07:28:54 < dongs> well
2013-03-28T07:28:59 < dongs> why the hel lwould you run i2s off HSI anyway
2013-03-28T07:29:04 < dongs> isnt it not stable enough
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2013-03-28T07:32:42 < emeb_mac> plenty stable. just not really accurate.
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2013-03-28T07:33:18 < emeb_mac> but  this application isn't about accuracy, so I don't have an xtal.
2013-03-28T07:38:25 < dongs> ya who cares when britney spears autotoune is a bit off
2013-03-28T07:40:07 < emeb_mac> :)
2013-03-28T07:40:43 < emeb_mac> not just who cares, but honestly who can tell?
2013-03-28T07:56:23 < dongs> certainly not her fanbase.
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2013-03-28T07:59:20 < dongs> lets see what digikey will say for quote on 500 of these gennum shits
2013-03-28T07:59:27 < dongs> their qty discount stops at 100
2013-03-28T07:59:53 < dongs> i heard you can get digikey shit cheaper if you just submit entire project as a RFQ
2013-03-28T07:59:56 < dongs> and then order using it
2013-03-28T08:00:08 < dongs> well, obviously only works if youre after more than 10 of something
2013-03-28T08:04:39 < emeb_mac> gennum has some crazy stuff - 290 x 290 crosspoint switch!!!??!?
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2013-03-28T08:06:21 < dongs> lol
2013-03-28T08:09:23 < dongs> thats a lot of balls
2013-03-28T08:12:36 < emeb_mac> heh
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2013-03-28T08:20:51 < dongs> god damnit, waveshare ripped me
2013-03-28T08:21:00 < dongs> no more free advertising for htem
2013-03-28T08:21:07 < dongs> they said f103 went up in price, well my other contact said it went down!
2013-03-28T08:22:39 < dongs> seems like in china, if you try to do repeat business wiht anyone, they become more jewish
2013-03-28T08:24:50 < emeb_mac> they think they've got you locked in.
2013-03-28T08:24:59 < emeb_mac> show them how wrong they can be.
2013-03-28T08:25:12 < dongs> lol, http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HMC5883L-TR/342-1082-1-ND/2507853 digikey got CHEAP for this shit.
2013-03-28T08:25:23 < dongs> theres no reason to not buy this stufffrom them anymore
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2013-03-28T08:40:11 < R2COM> found new fabhouse today
2013-03-28T08:40:12 < R2COM> https://twistedtraces.com
2013-03-28T08:40:27 < R2COM> 8x8", 6/6 trace/space. 12mil drill, +scoring:  730$ for two boards, 6 layers
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2013-03-28T08:40:41 < dongs> um
2013-03-28T08:40:44 < dongs> i bet i can do it less than that
2013-03-28T08:41:07 < R2COM> where?
2013-03-28T08:41:20 < R2COM> with scoring?
2013-03-28T08:41:26 < dongs> with 5/5 rule and 10mil drill
2013-03-28T08:41:32 < R2COM> with scoring or no
2013-03-28T08:41:34 < dongs> scoring = vcut?
2013-03-28T08:41:36 < R2COM> yes
2013-03-28T08:41:39 < dongs> how many?
2013-03-28T08:42:09 < dongs> how many vcut?
2013-03-28T08:42:24 < R2COM> 8x8" boards, two of them, and with scoring what I wrote above, means one can crank out more than two boards, one can have several designs, because 8x8" is big board
2013-03-28T08:42:31 < R2COM> they can do how many you want
2013-03-28T08:42:47 < dongs> sure
2013-03-28T08:43:02 < R2COM> 8x8 is 64 sq. inches
2013-03-28T08:43:09 < dongs> ywah, 200x200mm or so
2013-03-28T08:43:10 < R2COM> one can put tons of digital stuff in it
2013-03-28T08:43:12 < dongs> aware.
2013-03-28T08:43:21 < R2COM> in different boards, each 6 layer
2013-03-28T08:46:02 < jpa-> wow, you can panelize pcb's? i bet dongs didn't know that :)
2013-03-28T08:46:22 < Viper168> ok fuck
2013-03-28T08:46:38 < Viper168> I'm going to program a tv manager
2013-03-28T08:46:48 < Viper168> buy a cheapo universal remote
2013-03-28T08:46:50 < dongs> jpa-: lol
2013-03-28T08:46:57 < Viper168> and hack it with a microcontroller
2013-03-28T08:47:06 < Viper168> I'm sick of cops coming on tv and giving me flashbacks
2013-03-28T08:47:11 < Viper168> fuck that shit
2013-03-28T08:47:23 < Viper168> ]I'm going to program it to change my channels for me at the right times
2013-03-28T08:47:32 < Viper168> so i don't have to pay attention to the time
2013-03-28T08:47:33 < dongs> R2COM: are you ready?
2013-03-28T08:47:40 < R2COM> ready for what
2013-03-28T08:47:41 < dongs> R2COM: how many boards doe sthat 700 get you?
2013-03-28T08:47:43 < R2COM> I'm always ready
2013-03-28T08:47:50 < R2COM> two 8x8"
2013-03-28T08:47:53 < dongs> ha ha
2013-03-28T08:47:56 < R2COM> with scoring
2013-03-28T08:48:04 < dongs> i can do 10 for almost half your price
2013-03-28T08:48:27 < R2COM> in which fabhouse?
2013-03-28T08:49:18 < dongs> best korea
2013-03-28T08:49:29 < R2COM> best korea?
2013-03-28T08:49:33 < R2COM> linky?
2013-03-28T08:50:05 < dongs> no link, at least nothing useful for you in english.
2013-03-28T08:50:15 < dongs> anyhow, just get it from twisteryscircuit or whatever.
2013-03-28T08:50:26 < R2COM> they dont have link?
2013-03-28T08:51:02 < R2COM> reason why I found that fabhouse is actually RF boards
2013-03-28T08:51:06 < R2COM> materials which they provide
2013-03-28T08:51:14 < R2COM> its just later I saw they do regular too
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2013-03-28T08:51:37 < R2COM> so how is that website or fabhouse called then?
2013-03-28T08:52:20 < dongs> R2COM: i run the place. and i dont really feel like linking it to you.
2013-03-28T08:52:31 < dongs> since youre not the target audience
2013-03-28T08:52:39 < R2COM> ok
2013-03-28T08:52:44 < R2COM> what about RF boards
2013-03-28T08:52:49 < R2COM> Ro4300,4350
2013-03-28T08:52:59 < dongs> just saying 700 for a panel of 6l boards isnt amazing.
2013-03-28T08:53:04 < dongs> no, no RF stuff at all.
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2013-03-28T08:53:12 < R2COM> ok
2013-03-28T08:53:18 -!- Elledan is now known as hackkitten
2013-03-28T08:53:31 < R2COM> then bummer, and I know I can find maybe a better deal on regular boards, its just I showed one more today which i found
2013-03-28T08:54:09 < dongs> at least its made in usa
2013-03-28T08:54:13 < dongs> thats actually pretty impressive then
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2013-03-28T09:01:54 < dongs> lol was this hackkitten
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2013-03-28T09:22:08 < jpa-> hackkitten <3
2013-03-28T09:23:08 < hackkitten> hi jpa- :)
2013-03-28T09:24:10 < jpa-> hi :)
2013-03-28T09:25:38 < dongs> ^^^^ lol
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2013-03-28T09:30:56 < dongs> hoho, digikey refunded my USB hub parts
2013-03-28T09:30:59 < dongs> 100% refund, nice
2013-03-28T09:33:42 < baird> the 10port 1.1 hub claiming 'high speed!'?
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2013-03-28T10:01:30 < pelrun> hmm
2013-03-28T10:02:16 < pelrun> any idea why my adc/dma continuous scan conversion routine keeps giving me 20480 as a result on every channel?
2013-03-28T10:02:25 < pelrun> that doesn't even fit in 12 bits :S
2013-03-28T10:06:16 < pelrun> ...I'm definitely pointing the DMA at ADC1->DR
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2013-03-28T10:09:35 < pelrun> hmm, debugger says ADC1->DR has an expected value
2013-03-28T10:09:48 < pelrun> so I must be doing something wrong with the dma
2013-03-28T10:10:34 < jpa-> pelrun: maybe your MSIZE or PSIZE is wrong?
2013-03-28T10:10:56 < pelrun> they're both 1(halfword)
2013-03-28T10:11:16 < pelrun> the output array is volatile uint16_t
2013-03-28T10:11:32 < jpa-> 0x5000.. interesting value
2013-03-28T10:11:40 < pelrun> yeah
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2013-03-28T10:12:37 < pelrun> DMA1 - EN, CIRC, MINC are 1, PSIZE/MSIZE are 0b01
2013-03-28T10:13:06 < pelrun> ...CPAR seems to be 0
2013-03-28T10:13:15 < pelrun> -_-;
2013-03-28T10:13:31 < jpa-> nice reset vector you have there
2013-03-28T10:13:42 < jpa-> shame if anyone were to regard it as ADC data
2013-03-28T10:13:59 < pelrun> I think I need to go have words with the stdperiph library
2013-03-28T10:14:09 < pelrun> and by words I mean punch it in the nose to assert dominance
2013-03-28T10:15:09 < jpa-> stdperiph is such a mutant that i doubt you can find its nose
2013-03-28T10:15:23 < jpa-> and even if you did, it would be wrapped in 5 layers of protective functions and structures
2013-03-28T10:15:56 < pelrun> compared to some libraries I've worked with, stdperiph is primitive
2013-03-28T10:16:23 < pelrun> but in this case it loos to be my fault
2013-03-28T10:16:31 < dongs> ive used ADC w/DMA with stdperiph on F1
2013-03-28T10:16:33 < dongs> no problems
2013-03-28T10:16:37 < pelrun>   DMA_InitData.DMA_PeripheralBaseAddr = ADC1->DR;
2013-03-28T10:16:40 < dongs> so its probably you fuckin shit up
2013-03-28T10:16:43 < pelrun> spot the bug
2013-03-28T10:16:48 < jpa-> lol
2013-03-28T10:16:51 < dongs> DMA_InitStructure.DMA_PeripheralBaseAddr = (uint32_t)&ADC1->DR;
2013-03-28T10:16:52 < dongs> try this instead
2013-03-28T10:17:04 < pelrun> yeah, I've got it, thanks
2013-03-28T10:17:26 < pelrun> lets use the value in the adc register to set the dma memory address!
2013-03-28T10:17:32 < pelrun> lalalalalala
2013-03-28T10:17:32 < dongs> at least youre not just writing raw address tehre like most ST sample code
2013-03-28T10:17:48 < dongs> they just do BaseAddr = 0x40010010 or wahtever
2013-03-28T10:17:48  * pelrun foams at the mouth and his eyes roll
2013-03-28T10:17:54 < pelrun> oh yeah
2013-03-28T10:18:04 < pelrun> that's actually what caught me out
2013-03-28T10:18:26 < pelrun> I saw that and went "fuck that, I'm using the correct pointer" and fucked up the change :)
2013-03-28T10:18:34 < pelrun> idiots
2013-03-28T10:19:01 < pelrun> well, at least now it's practically impossible to find any example code on the new st website
2013-03-28T10:19:10 < pelrun> so it doesn't matter that it's fucked XD
2013-03-28T10:19:30 < dongs> haha
2013-03-28T10:20:31 < pelrun> I didn't know it was possible to make a website more convoluted than the old st one
2013-03-28T10:20:39 < pelrun> but they stepped up and delivered
2013-03-28T10:21:17 < pelrun> woo, getting valid shit out of this code now
2013-03-28T10:23:45 < pelrun> ...nope, still bullshit
2013-03-28T10:23:57 < pelrun> though it might be a hardware issue this time
2013-03-28T10:31:49 < pelrun> HAHAHAHA the voltage dividers aren't populated on this board
2013-03-28T10:31:51 < pelrun> that'll do it
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--- Log opened Thu Mar 28 13:23:39 2013
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2013-03-28T14:54:38 < Tectu> it's hilarious to see how many people bring their broken windows vista machines to me
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2013-03-28T15:03:14 < jon1012> Tectu, at least it's not windows millenium
2013-03-28T15:03:49 < Erlkoenig> what does the "common mode" on the F3's SD-ADC mean? what exactly does this setting do?
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2013-03-28T15:19:43 < gxti> hmm, don't remember seeing that
2013-03-28T15:19:54 < gxti> what does the RM say? :p
2013-03-28T15:20:41 < Erlkoenig> "Common mode. The common mode setting (VSSSD, VDDSDx, or VDDSDx/2) is used only in the determination of the offset during the calibration sequence." ... very explanatory
2013-03-28T15:21:07 < Erlkoenig> VSSSD = GND of ADC, VDDSD = ADC power supply
2013-03-28T15:21:22 < gxti> then it obviously has something to do with the calibration procedure.
2013-03-28T15:21:44 < Erlkoenig> yup, but i don't understand how
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2013-03-28T15:27:14 < Erlkoenig> this setting might be the voltage both differential inputs are connected to during calibration, and the offset is set so that the final value would be zero when that voltage is applied during measure - but i dunno whether that's correct
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2013-03-28T15:58:15 < Tectu> where's my Steffanx?
2013-03-28T16:08:12 < gxti> YOUR Steffanx?
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2013-03-28T16:15:04 < Tectu> I am
2013-03-28T16:15:12 < Tectu> dongs, any news about the BMPs?
2013-03-28T16:18:45 < dongs> Tectu: i was gonna work on BMPs and then this happened: http://i.imgur.com/JYDw21H.jpg
2013-03-28T16:19:40 < Tectu> dongs, is that a cubieboard?
2013-03-28T16:21:17 < gxti> that's what it says
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2013-03-28T16:21:32 < gxti> well, partly obscured. it could be "cubiedongs"
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2013-03-28T16:27:20 < Fail_Academy> wtf is that?
2013-03-28T16:27:49 < Fail_Academy> dvbt adaptor for cubie?
2013-03-28T16:27:49 < Tectu> http://cubieboard.org
2013-03-28T16:28:00 < Fail_Academy> i know that dumbass
2013-03-28T16:29:25 < Tectu> ey! that's no reason to be unpolite
2013-03-28T16:29:34 < Tectu> impolite*
2013-03-28T16:29:50 < Fail_Academy> heh
2013-03-28T16:30:22 -!- elektrinis [~circuit@82-135-241-134.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: pokðt]
2013-03-28T16:30:36 < baird> If you can't be impolite to dumb people, then who else?
2013-03-28T16:31:24 < Tectu> how is one dumb to show someone a link to a certain board on a picture when the question is "wtf is that?"
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2013-03-28T16:40:50 < gxti> the dumbest dummy that ever dummed
2013-03-28T16:45:16 < Fail_Academy> http://joanharvest.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/dumbass.jpg?w=535
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2013-03-28T16:57:36 < Fail_Academy> dongs: how are you interfacing with the rf front end?
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2013-03-28T17:19:09 < Fail_Academy> http://www.linusakesson.net/scene/phasor/index.php
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2013-03-28T17:35:16 < jon1012> someone knows a good way to flash a lot of stm32 ?
2013-03-28T17:35:43 < jon1012> I mainly use swd with the st-flash app from stlink
2013-03-28T17:37:13 < Fail_Academy> bootloader?
2013-03-28T17:37:29 < jon1012> ?
2013-03-28T17:37:49 < jon1012> oh, I mean first flash before shipping devices
2013-03-28T17:45:04 < emeb> define "fast", define "a lot"
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2013-03-28T17:59:15 < emeb> wow - that Si570 group buy is now more than 2x over the goal.
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2013-03-28T19:22:12 <+Steffanx> dekar how did you remove that chip from your cheap as dvb-t receiver?
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2013-03-28T19:23:01 <+Steffanx> I tried it with hot air, but i am unable to melt the solder on the ground pad
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2013-03-28T19:25:20 < gxti> preheater probably. i just got my hot air station 2 days ago and i'm already lamenting not having one.
2013-03-28T19:25:48 < gxti> i didn't have any issues removing a QFN but who knows how much excess heat i'm exposing it to.
2013-03-28T19:26:04 <+Steffanx> I remember he said something about bruteforce + normal iron, but im not sure if it was him
2013-03-28T19:27:31 < Tectu> Steffanx, I missed you
2013-03-28T19:27:37 < Tectu> where have you been?
2013-03-28T19:27:42 <+Steffanx> uni
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2013-03-28T19:27:52 < Tectu> hmkay
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2013-03-28T19:32:30 <+Steffanx> wieso mr Tectu
2013-03-28T19:32:50 < Tectu> Steffanx, no reasons
2013-03-28T19:33:13 <+Steffanx> You can enjoy my presence here all day long tomorrow
2013-03-28T19:42:16 < Tectu> thanks!
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2013-03-28T20:10:24 <+Steffanx> 22mA - 45mA @3.3V .. for a simple GPS. Why so much?
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2013-03-28T20:17:38 < Fail_Academy> cuz shit tons of DSP
2013-03-28T20:18:28 < gxti> Steffanx: pay more for less
2013-03-28T20:18:42 < gxti> *you* try doing GPS fixes on a power budget :o
2013-03-28T20:18:51 <+Steffanx> What is low gxti ?
2013-03-28T20:20:02 < gxti> dunno, ublox has some low power stuff
2013-03-28T20:20:07 <+Steffanx> * nvm
2013-03-28T20:20:12 <+Steffanx> i read a low budget :P
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2013-03-28T20:20:32 <+Steffanx> This is a ublox something and it has to be tiny
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2013-03-28T20:23:15 < Erlkoenig> 2nd try: what does the "common mode" on the F3's SD-ADC mean? what exactly does this setting do? The RM just says: "Common mode. The common mode setting (VSSSD [Analog Supply], VDDSDx[Analog GND], or VDDSDx/2) is used only in the determination of the offset during the calibration sequence." ... very explanatory.
2013-03-28T20:23:15 < Erlkoenig> I guess this setting might be the voltage both differential inputs are connected to during calibration, and the offset is set so that the final value would be zero when that voltage is applied during measure - but i dunno whether that's correct...
2013-03-28T20:23:42 < gxti> does it matter Erlkoenig?
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2013-03-28T20:23:58 < gxti> it says it's only used in calibration and does not affect conversions
2013-03-28T20:24:13 < Erlkoenig> but if it affects the calculated offset??
2013-03-28T20:24:17 <+Steffanx> for a normal price.. 100 euro is a little expensive for a hps
2013-03-28T20:24:22 < Erlkoenig> since ima writing an API for the SD-ADC i'd like to cover that functionality
2013-03-28T20:24:35 < gxti> you should calibrate it the way the RM says to
2013-03-28T20:25:22 < gxti> which presumably involves, directly or indirectly, performing some operation at each value of that register
2013-03-28T20:25:46 < Erlkoenig> yes and the RM says to configure that setting
2013-03-28T20:25:56 < Erlkoenig> but not what to fill in to achieve what exact behaviour...
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2013-03-28T20:26:11 < Erlkoenig> this value is definitely to write by the user
2013-03-28T20:26:11 < gxti> i already skimmed the RM once today, you figure it out
2013-03-28T20:26:23 < gxti> i assume it's "write 0, calibrate, write 1, calibrate, write 2, calibrate, done"
2013-03-28T20:26:42 < Erlkoenig> 0 to offset or what?
2013-03-28T20:27:04 < gxti> to common mode, or whatever the 3 values are
2013-03-28T20:27:33 < Erlkoenig> uhm but then the result (= the offset) of the first two calibrations will be lost
2013-03-28T20:27:46 < Erlkoenig> unless you manually save them, but what of the values to use in what case?
2013-03-28T20:27:57 < gxti> well if you can't figure it out by reading the manual then wait 3 weeks and my F3 board will be here and i'll figure it out
2013-03-28T20:28:08 < gxti> and not tell you because RTFM
2013-03-28T20:28:14 < gxti> ;p
2013-03-28T20:28:34 < Erlkoenig> the manual only says that only freaking sentence!
2013-03-28T20:29:14 < gxti> look at AN4207 "Getting started with STM32F37x/38x SDADC (Sigma-Delta ADC)", maybe that's got details
2013-03-28T20:29:36 < Erlkoenig> oh sounds like an idea
2013-03-28T20:35:51 < Tectu> so I got this arm dev board from a company
2013-03-28T20:35:52 < Tectu> with a TFT
2013-03-28T20:36:05 < Tectu> and _TWO_ different touchscreen controllers connected to the touchscreen
2013-03-28T20:36:59 <+Steffanx> fancy
2013-03-28T20:37:08 < gxti> multitouch, just add more controllers
2013-03-28T20:37:19 <+Steffanx> Why they give a little kid like you that Tectu ?
2013-03-28T20:38:02 < Tectu> gxti, lol'd
2013-03-28T20:38:12 < Tectu> Steffanx, to rise big kids
2013-03-28T20:38:50 <+Steffanx> :S
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2013-03-28T21:27:12 < Ranewen> my first visit to a gym ^^
2013-03-28T21:30:45 <+Steffanx> poor you
2013-03-28T21:30:52 <+Steffanx> Nerd are supposed to be fat
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2013-03-28T21:34:30 < Ranewen> 90kg 185cm
2013-03-28T21:35:27 < Ranewen> Steffanx, you ?
2013-03-28T21:35:44 <+Steffanx> I have NO idea :)
2013-03-28T21:35:58 < Ranewen> bigger than average fridge ?
2013-03-28T21:36:01 <+Steffanx> but about the same, maybe a little less heavy :P
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2013-03-28T21:39:56 <+Steffanx> Probably less as the wheels/tires of my bicycle are only made for 90-100kg and they are still ok Ranewen :P
2013-03-28T21:43:21 < Tectu> setting the pad modes for SPI...   SCK is output push pull, right?
2013-03-28T21:43:25 < Tectu> or alternate?
2013-03-28T21:43:35 < Tectu> and are MISO and MOSI alternate pushpull or open drain?
2013-03-28T21:58:05 < Ranewen> Steffanx, which model ?
2013-03-28T21:58:12 < Ranewen> im kinda into cycles
2013-03-28T21:58:40 <+Steffanx> Uhm
2013-03-28T21:58:52 < gxti> Tectu: all peripherals use AFIO, not GPIO, because they're AFIO, not GPIO
2013-03-28T21:59:06 < gxti> Tectu: as for push-pull vs open-drain, what do you think?
2013-03-28T21:59:58 <+Steffanx> A cheaperish BULLS Desert Falcon 1  Ranewen
2013-03-28T22:00:13 <+Steffanx> ( my first racing bicycle so.. didn't want to go too expensive )
2013-03-28T22:00:26 < Ranewen> Steffanx, im not into cheaper than 1k$
2013-03-28T22:00:48 <+Steffanx> it was more than that for sure :P
2013-03-28T22:00:58 <+Steffanx> more like 1.1k euro :P
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2013-03-28T22:01:42 <+Steffanx> perhaps ill go full-carbon once.. once im more into it
2013-03-28T22:02:56 <+Steffanx> but im happy with it Ranewen :)
2013-03-28T22:03:13 <+Steffanx> Too bad it's to cold now for cycling
2013-03-28T22:05:06 < emeb> pedal faster - you'll warm up.
2013-03-28T22:06:13 < Tectu> gxti, I see, that totally makes sense
2013-03-28T22:06:53 < Tectu> gxti, I'd say MOSI and SCK is pushpull, MISO is open drain
2013-03-28T22:07:36 < Ranewen> Steffanx, im more into offroad cycling... no carbon there :D
2013-03-28T22:08:17 < Ranewen> Steffanx, plus you are much safer with an "freeride" bike in city... especially if you have gear :D
2013-03-28T22:08:36 < gxti> Tectu: open drain is still an output
2013-03-28T22:08:42 < gxti> are you sure you want MISO to be an output?
2013-03-28T22:08:44 < Tectu> gxti, that's why I am confused ;)
2013-03-28T22:08:49 < Tectu> gxti, no
2013-03-28T22:08:57 < gxti> then that must not be the right choice
2013-03-28T22:09:34 < Tectu> gxti, I'm misreading the PAL docs of ChibiOS/RT here
2013-03-28T22:09:57 <+Steffanx> I dont really cycle in cities Ranewen
2013-03-28T22:10:35 < Ranewen> Steffanx, nor do i
2013-03-28T22:11:23 < gxti> Tectu: i don't know about the docs; the sample header has a nice list of each option
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2013-03-28T22:15:14 <+Steffanx> no off road either mr Ranewen. There is no nice off road terrain here
2013-03-28T22:15:44 < Ranewen> Steffanx, yes, you have tons of population
2013-03-28T22:16:49 <+Steffanx> no, not that
2013-03-28T22:16:54 <+Steffanx> its too flat here
2013-03-28T22:17:52 < Ranewen> Steffanx, http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/304/8/4/84163a5adf030006c4679f7e687b03a3-d5jgcjq.jpg
2013-03-28T22:19:59 < karlp> where's that?
2013-03-28T22:20:30 < Erlkoenig> doesn't matter, is art
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2013-03-28T22:27:02 < Ranewen> isnt art
2013-03-28T22:27:31 < Erlkoenig> but it's on deviantart!!11
2013-03-28T22:28:06 < Ranewen> google plitvica lakes
2013-03-28T22:34:06 < Erlkoenig> ridiculously fotogenic landscapes
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2013-03-28T22:40:12 < Ranewen> can i suggest a link to all starters ?
2013-03-28T22:40:25 < Ranewen> so you can include it in the description or somewhere ?
2013-03-28T22:44:56 <+Steffanx> uh?
2013-03-28T22:47:05 < Ranewen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V9eqvkMzHA&list=PLPW8O6W-1chwyTzI3BHwBLbGQoPFxPAPM
2013-03-28T22:47:15 < Ranewen> Steffanx, not quite for you, but you can learn something there
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2013-03-28T22:52:14 < Ranewen> Steffanx, you are using windows right ?
2013-03-28T22:52:27 <+Steffanx> os x
2013-03-28T22:53:54 < Ranewen> why
2013-03-28T22:54:45 < qyx_> anyone tried communication over DC power lines?
2013-03-28T22:55:44 <+Steffanx> why not Ranewen ?
2013-03-28T22:55:55 < Ranewen> Steffanx, idk... most eu is windows.
2013-03-28T22:55:59 <+Steffanx> i think because it comes with this laptop
2013-03-28T22:56:42 < Erlkoenig> yuck, video tutorial
2013-03-28T22:57:01 < Ranewen> Steffanx, you got $
2013-03-28T22:57:34 < Ranewen> Erlkoenig, can you get me better tutorials online ? pls do
2013-03-28T22:59:05 < Erlkoenig> probably not... real men learn from docs :3
2013-03-28T22:59:46 < Ranewen> Erlkoenig, arm is like the most closed community ever
2013-03-28T23:00:07 < Erlkoenig> hmm possible...
2013-03-28T23:00:31 <+Steffanx> Ranewen, yeah i worked the cash. yes
2013-03-28T23:00:40 < Ranewen> Erlkoenig, :D
2013-03-28T23:00:45 < Ranewen> Steffanx, how
2013-03-28T23:05:08 <+Steffanx> how?
2013-03-28T23:05:29 <+Steffanx> like every nerd/geek, with his fingers
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2013-03-28T23:06:40 < gxti> qyx_: should be pretty straightforward, but i'd like to play with it too
2013-03-28T23:08:53 -!- bsdfox [~Bob@unaffiliated/bsdfox] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2013-03-28T23:11:24 < qyx_> gxti: i'd like to try injecting some fsk/qam modulated data to the dc line
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2013-03-28T23:11:31 < qyx_> pure software solution
2013-03-28T23:12:45 < Ranewen> qyx_, why are there some "fat shieldning on some usb cables", do they have some usage ?
2013-03-28T23:13:03 < Ranewen> usually fat, and like 3cm long
2013-03-28T23:13:32 < qyx_> you mean ferrite cores?
2013-03-28T23:13:42 < Ranewen> idk
2013-03-28T23:13:44 < Ranewen> i gues
2013-03-28T23:14:28 < gxti> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_bead
2013-03-28T23:14:38 < qyx_> http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/20109/HDMI_Cable_Golden_Plated_with_two_ferrite_core2010911843132.jpg
2013-03-28T23:14:41 < qyx_> this?
2013-03-28T23:14:56 < emeb> Mmmm - ferrite. Crunchy!
2013-03-28T23:15:00 < Ranewen> yop i didnt knew the name of it
2013-03-28T23:15:11 < Ranewen> i thought it filters noise
2013-03-28T23:15:17 < gxti> yes.
2013-03-28T23:15:35 < emeb> noise and anything else that falls in its frequency range...
2013-03-28T23:15:38 < Ranewen> low pas filter
2013-03-28T23:17:07 < emeb> Sadness - 1% 0603 resistors are unmarked.
2013-03-28T23:17:20 < gxti> some are, some are not
2013-03-28T23:17:36 < emeb> then it must be the cheap-ass ones I got from DK
2013-03-28T23:17:43 < karlp> kemet charges extra for marking
2013-03-28T23:17:53 < gxti> i buy whatever is cheapest
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2013-03-28T23:21:13 < gxti> seems to be different manufacturers at different times at different values
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2013-03-28T23:27:29 < Laurenceb_> sup
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2013-03-29T00:45:43 < Erlkoenig> ST's appnote about the F3's SD-ADC is quiet about the "common mode setting"... it must be so obvious that ima too stupid to understand it
2013-03-29T00:47:18 < Laurenceb_> does common mode mean single ended?
2013-03-29T00:48:33 < Erlkoenig> no, you can configure the SD-ADC in single ended or differential mode, and still set some "common mode" which somehow affects the calibration
2013-03-29T00:48:51 < Erlkoenig>  The RM just says: "Common mode. The common mode setting (VSSSD [Analog Supply], VDDSDx[Analog GND], or VDDSDx/2) is used only in the determination of the offset during the calibration sequence."
2013-03-29T00:52:23 < gxti> RM 13.5.7 describes the calibration procedure, including the fact that it automatically stores the result. it mentions OFFSET but not what value is to be chosen.
2013-03-29T00:52:36 < gxti> my guess is that you're supposed to pick a value before calibration that resembles the type of signal you are inputting.
2013-03-29T00:53:07 < gxti> for example, if you are inputting AC centered at 1/2 VDDSD, then pick that COMMON value.
2013-03-29T00:54:19 < gxti> probably if they don't say exactly what it is then it doesn't matter much and you can ignore it
2013-03-29T00:54:35 < Erlkoenig> yup i guessed something like that, but guessing device characteristics doesn't seem like good practice :3
2013-03-29T00:56:27 < Laurenceb_> has anyone looked at ADC noise on the F4discovery?
2013-03-29T00:56:35 < Laurenceb_> ive got a bit of an issue with noise
2013-03-29T00:56:51 < Laurenceb_> wondering where its coming from
2013-03-29T00:57:11 < Laurenceb_> seems to have a frequency spectra with lots of peaks.. like its digital interference
2013-03-29T00:57:22 < Erlkoenig> from the Core directly to the ADC?
2013-03-29T00:57:37 < Erlkoenig> maybe experimentally try putting core to sleep while converting
2013-03-29T00:57:41 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2013-03-29T00:57:44 < Erlkoenig> like the AVR's are recommended to do
2013-03-29T00:57:49 < Erlkoenig> just a guess though
2013-03-29T00:57:51 < Laurenceb_> my F1 seems to be a lot nicer
2013-03-29T00:57:58 < Laurenceb_> but its on a custom pcb
2013-03-29T00:58:26 < Laurenceb_> im wondering if i could improve the analogue rail on the F4
2013-03-29T00:59:00 < Laurenceb_> maybe ill scope it.. with my Tektronix scope at work
2013-03-29T00:59:29 < Laurenceb_> isnt there something in the ref manual about interference from the ART accel precache?
2013-03-29T01:01:18 < Erlkoenig> hu dunno.
2013-03-29T01:02:33 < Laurenceb_> yeah 2.1.14
2013-03-29T01:03:46 < Erlkoenig> meh, the guy who made the PCB for the F3 i program did not route the USART pins... how do i connect it to the computer now...
2013-03-29T01:04:09 < Erlkoenig> i could write values directly into memory via debugger+SWD but yuck
2013-03-29T01:06:16 < Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/en/resource/technical/document/application_note/DM00050879.pdf
2013-03-29T01:06:23 < Laurenceb_> this looks relevant to my interests
2013-03-29T01:06:45 < Erlkoenig> apart from /b/ ?
2013-03-29T01:07:10  * Steffanx waits for Fail_Academy to say something about that document
2013-03-29T01:07:22 <+Steffanx> something like.. they suck, they screwed up etc.
2013-03-29T01:09:50 < Laurenceb_> rofl
2013-03-29T01:09:57 < Laurenceb_> they used excel for data analysis
2013-03-29T01:10:03 < Laurenceb_> epic fail ST, epic fail
2013-03-29T01:10:20 < Erlkoenig> don't they use excel for anything, e.g. product tables?
2013-03-29T01:10:23 < Laurenceb_> is that acceptable?
2013-03-29T01:10:24 < BrainDamage> I have a friend that works at ST
2013-03-29T01:10:36 <+Steffanx> You deserve a ban bai
2013-03-29T01:10:40 <+Steffanx> *BrainDamage
2013-03-29T01:10:42 < BrainDamage> one day he went all porud of me he knew PERL
2013-03-29T01:10:55 < BrainDamage> and how it made his life easier
2013-03-29T01:11:32 <+Steffanx> Whoa, nice story, nice story BrainDamage
2013-03-29T01:12:03 < zyp> Steffanx, now you are just being mean
2013-03-29T01:12:20 < BrainDamage> he's learning from the channel
2013-03-29T01:12:23 <+Steffanx> Nah, there just something missing.
2013-03-29T01:12:46 <+Steffanx> My 'feeling' says the story isn't finished
2013-03-29T01:13:00 < BrainDamage> he went boasting he learned a scripting language
2013-03-29T01:13:08 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Quit: ….]
2013-03-29T01:13:09 < BrainDamage> when he was supposed to be in the programming division
2013-03-29T01:13:12 < BrainDamage> 'nuff said
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2013-03-29T01:13:44 <+Steffanx> Hi zyp btw. How's jappyland?
2013-03-29T01:13:53 < Laurenceb_> this is interesting
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2013-03-29T01:14:07 < Laurenceb_> ADC noise is not high enough to explain the noise i see
2013-03-29T01:14:20 <+Steffanx> Your powersupply is noisy
2013-03-29T01:14:23 < Laurenceb_> must be some sort of EMI/noise on the board
2013-03-29T01:14:25 <+Steffanx> the actual input is noisy
2013-03-29T01:14:33 < Laurenceb_> it is the stock F4discovery...
2013-03-29T01:14:38 <+Steffanx> Your code is wrong
2013-03-29T01:14:40 < Laurenceb_> so id imagine its sucky
2013-03-29T01:14:50 < Laurenceb_> single vreg for _everything_
2013-03-29T01:14:53 < Erlkoenig> maybe because of spoiled USB supply?
2013-03-29T01:15:01 < Laurenceb_> that also perhaps
2013-03-29T01:15:12 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb_ , you expect too much of an < 20$ device
2013-03-29T01:15:14 < Erlkoenig> try a battery ;)
2013-03-29T01:15:18 <+Steffanx> -n
2013-03-29T01:15:21 < zyp> Steffanx, a bit colder than I'm used to - that's a welcome change
2013-03-29T01:15:22 < Laurenceb_> F1 board has independent supplies running off a lipo cell
2013-03-29T01:15:56 < Laurenceb_> ill get my tektronics scope out and take a look with spectrum analyser
2013-03-29T01:16:37 <+Steffanx> dont forget to fap on it
2013-03-29T01:16:46 < Erlkoenig> the F4 or the scope?
2013-03-29T01:16:49 < Erlkoenig> *F1
2013-03-29T01:16:52 <+Steffanx> the result
2013-03-29T01:17:15 <+Steffanx> but the spectrum analyzer is ok as well
2013-03-29T01:17:40 < Erlkoenig> Extra points if you get to input a spectrum that looks like boobies
2013-03-29T01:17:51 <+Steffanx> Easy :P
2013-03-29T01:18:00 < Erlkoenig> okay than whole body :P
2013-03-29T01:18:47 <+Steffanx> and a dong for you
2013-03-29T01:19:10 < Erlkoenig> a dong alone is boring
2013-03-29T01:19:32 <+Steffanx> ok :S
2013-03-29T01:20:16 <+Steffanx> BrainDamage what did you tell your friend after he told you about his perl crap btw?
2013-03-29T01:20:22 <+Steffanx> I missed that part of the story
2013-03-29T01:20:49 < BrainDamage> I was simply speechless
2013-03-29T01:20:55 < BrainDamage> I didn't want to insult him
2013-03-29T01:22:10 < Gargantuasauce> perl is a perfectly acceptable write-only language
2013-03-29T01:22:52 <+Steffanx> I never tried perl, and never will
2013-03-29T01:22:59 < BrainDamage> if you're in the programming division, you don't go EXCITED for leaning a scripting language for the first time
2013-03-29T01:23:15 < BrainDamage> ( and for what I gathered, his first language too )
2013-03-29T01:24:06 < Gargantuasauce> having >120 operators is an excellent design for producing such powerful and rich functionality
2013-03-29T01:24:07 <+Steffanx> You mean you're just supposed to fap on it in private?
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2013-03-29T01:47:42 < Laurenceb_> rage
2013-03-29T01:47:54 < Laurenceb_> F42x/F43x has better ADC
2013-03-29T01:48:16 < Laurenceb_> and an epic feature to block flash access during last bit period of ACD conversion
2013-03-29T01:49:53 < Erlkoenig> just do WFI i guess :>
2013-03-29T01:59:17 < Laurenceb_> im only getting about 7 effective bits of data
2013-03-29T01:59:23 < Laurenceb_> something has got to be wrong there...
2013-03-29T02:01:44 < Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qgehH3kEQ
2013-03-29T02:01:47 < Laurenceb_> i lolled
2013-03-29T02:02:17 < Erlkoenig> oooooold
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2013-03-29T03:09:04 < dongs> sup lunix blogs
2013-03-29T03:09:40 <+Steffanx> freebsd
2013-03-29T03:09:48 < emeb> bloggin'
2013-03-29T03:09:57 <+Steffanx> tarduino.cc ?
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2013-03-29T05:57:55 < R2COM> http://i.imgur.com/uJS17.gif
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2013-03-29T06:09:51 < upgrdman> lol
2013-03-29T06:10:33 < upgrdman> i like how he hunches down to get the full effect
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2013-03-29T06:45:00 < emeb> eww
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2013-03-29T07:40:37 < dongs> where are chats
2013-03-29T08:06:37 < emeb_mac> dreaming in chatland
2013-03-29T08:09:51 < zyp> no time for chats
2013-03-29T08:10:07 < emeb_mac> how's JP zyp?
2013-03-29T08:12:39 < zyp> it's nice
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2013-03-29T08:29:41 < dongs> shit, i dug out this DVD/VHS/HDD recorder from the trash
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2013-03-29T08:32:01 < dongs> wow, sata HDD
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2013-03-29T16:10:36 < Laurenceb_> is anywhere stocking F42x/F43x yet?
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2013-03-29T16:10:51 < Laurenceb_> i see some on Mouser, but 12 weeks lead time :(
2013-03-29T16:15:25 < Laurenceb_> tried digikey, rs,farnell and future electronics
2013-03-29T16:16:43 < Laurenceb_> none on arrow...
2013-03-29T16:17:12 < Erlkoenig> raid ST's headquarter for chips
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2013-03-29T16:22:18 <+Steffanx> Tectu !
2013-03-29T16:22:36 < Tectu> Steffanx, !
2013-03-29T16:22:39 < Tectu> how are you?
2013-03-29T16:22:44 <+Steffanx> Fine fine, there?
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2013-03-29T16:23:39 < vmguest> gday, what linux distro should i use (im a heavy windows user)
2013-03-29T16:24:11 < Tectu> Steffanx, I'm fine fine as well, thanks!
2013-03-29T16:24:16 <+Steffanx> Just try one. debian, opensuse, or one of the many others vmguest
2013-03-29T16:24:57 < vmguest> Steffanx: trying mint 13 atm.
2013-03-29T16:26:22 < dongs> < vmguest> gday, what linux distro should i use (im a heavy windows user)
2013-03-29T16:26:29 < Laurenceb_> im running ubuntu
2013-03-29T16:26:31 < dongs> none of them, just continue using windows
2013-03-29T16:26:32 < dongs> why would you need lunix?
2013-03-29T16:26:42 < dongs> Laurenceb_ is also black
2013-03-29T16:26:42 < dongs> so you can just ignore him
2013-03-29T16:26:49 < Laurenceb_> lulwut
2013-03-29T16:27:02 < Erlkoenig> and ignore dongs for any questions about OS or development toolchains
2013-03-29T16:27:11 < vmguest> Erlkoenig: ok
2013-03-29T16:27:13 < Laurenceb_> but unity sucks
2013-03-29T16:27:16 < Erlkoenig> true.
2013-03-29T16:27:24 < Laurenceb_> im running cinnamon on ubuntu 12.10 atm
2013-03-29T16:28:07 < vmguest> basically it is the same to install apps ?
2013-03-29T16:28:19 < vmguest> on all distros ?
2013-03-29T16:28:26 <+Steffanx> I've disliked ubuntu for a long time now :)
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2013-03-29T16:28:41 <+Steffanx> Every new version breaks something else
2013-03-29T16:28:42 < vmguest> im thinking about downloading manjaro.
2013-03-29T16:28:58 < Laurenceb_> dongs: go to wrongplanet.net and start a new thread, suggest Adam Lanza as a famous ass burgers victim
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2013-03-29T16:29:32 < Erlkoenig> vmguest: oh no
2013-03-29T16:29:51 < vmguest> Erlkoenig: why
2013-03-29T16:30:02 < dongs> lol @ same installed apps
2013-03-29T16:30:06 < dongs> vmguest: because this is lunix
2013-03-29T16:30:10 < dongs> they have 1000 different versions
2013-03-29T16:30:16 < dongs> and they cant figure out a standard way to install software
2013-03-29T16:30:18  * Steffanx waits for someone to advice to use Arch 
2013-03-29T16:30:23 < Erlkoenig> vmguest: for example debian and the derived Ubuntu only roll out well-tested applications to be installed via package manager, and distro's like Arch roll all new versions instantly... so you get newest software but possibly unstable
2013-03-29T16:30:41 < Erlkoenig> dongs: but windows can?? :D
2013-03-29T16:30:45 < dongs> Erlkoenig: yeah.
2013-03-29T16:30:49 <+Steffanx> Arch is a pain in the ass anyway Erlkoenig
2013-03-29T16:30:55 < Erlkoenig> dongs: interesting, please tell me how
2013-03-29T16:30:57 < gxti> the windows way is to execute arbitrary bytecode that can poop all over everything
2013-03-29T16:31:00 < Laurenceb_> sudo apt-get install <package>
2013-03-29T16:31:15 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx: why?
2013-03-29T16:31:25 < Laurenceb_> or use the software center if you are a perman00b
2013-03-29T16:31:31 <+Steffanx> Erlkoenig, because i say so </discussion>
2013-03-29T16:31:34 < Erlkoenig> ah.
2013-03-29T16:31:36 < gxti> it works pretty well considering
2013-03-29T16:31:46 < jpa-> arch removed my kernel while i was running it :)
2013-03-29T16:32:13 < vmguest> Erlkoenig: i dont need a lot of software, maybee a couple of toolchains + kicad + autocad..
2013-03-29T16:32:15 < gxti> good thing it was loaded in RAM
2013-03-29T16:32:25 < Erlkoenig> dongs: for example i have my application that requires some libraries such as Sdl and Qt and i would now have them installed alongside my application automatically, and of course with minimal user intervention and possible unattended
2013-03-29T16:32:43 < jpa-> gxti: except for the usb-storage module :)
2013-03-29T16:32:54 < gxti> that's your fault for not already having it plugged in
2013-03-29T16:32:58 < gxti> what do you think usb is, hotplug?
2013-03-29T16:33:00 < jpa-> naturally
2013-03-29T16:33:01 <+Steffanx> Erlkoenig, you know it's useless to start a discussion with dongs about OS's etc.?
2013-03-29T16:33:03 < Erlkoenig> vmguest: the question is wehther you want the newest or the stablest versions ;-)
2013-03-29T16:33:03 < gxti> n00b
2013-03-29T16:33:16 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx: i did not want to discuss, i wanted to learn about windows
2013-03-29T16:33:18 < jpa-> someone else said that i shouldn't run the upgrade if i don't want to upgrade
2013-03-29T16:33:32 < gxti> Erlkoenig: easy, you ship another copy of all the .dlls
2013-03-29T16:33:38 < gxti> or ten
2013-03-29T16:33:39 < gxti> just in case
2013-03-29T16:33:44 < Erlkoenig> "easy", lol
2013-03-29T16:33:52 < Erlkoenig> and how ship them?
2013-03-29T16:33:55 < Erlkoenig> a huge .zip?
2013-03-29T16:34:02 <+Steffanx> .exe setup
2013-03-29T16:34:06 < gxti> as an installer .exe. have you not used windows before?
2013-03-29T16:34:10 < Erlkoenig> ah
2013-03-29T16:34:11 <+Steffanx> *msi :P
2013-03-29T16:34:15 < gxti> or .msi but you usually don't see those directly
2013-03-29T16:34:16 < Erlkoenig> and that is a "uniform way"? :D
2013-03-29T16:34:30 < Erlkoenig> generating windows installers is incredibly annoying
2013-03-29T16:34:35 < gxti> yes. it's rare that a program has prerequisites other than e.g. .NET
2013-03-29T16:34:45 < dongs> yeah, just as annoying as generating 1000 packages for every fucking lunix distro
2013-03-29T16:34:45 < gxti> because they just bundle everything
2013-03-29T16:34:54 < dongs> except you do it once on windows and it works on anything in the last decade
2013-03-29T16:35:06 < gxti> in theory anyway
2013-03-29T16:35:12 < dongs> good luck targeting lunix from decade ago
2013-03-29T16:35:20 < Erlkoenig> dongs: on linux you just need to write a tiny description text file saying "my app needs qt and sdl" and the rest is done automatically
2013-03-29T16:35:29 < dongs> Erlkoenig: you are so fucking funny
2013-03-29T16:35:32 < Erlkoenig> you too
2013-03-29T16:35:32 < gxti> ^
2013-03-29T16:35:35 < dongs> and this discussion is a waste of time, of course
2013-03-29T16:35:39 < gxti> obviously
2013-03-29T16:35:39 <+Steffanx> Unless the right version of the lib you need isn't in the repo, r
2013-03-29T16:35:41 <+Steffanx> * Erlkoenig
2013-03-29T16:35:45 < gxti> but there are no other chats
2013-03-29T16:35:45 <+Steffanx> then you're screwed
2013-03-29T16:35:50 < dongs> Erlkoenig: because every fucking week tehre's a new versionf of QT or SDL
2013-03-29T16:35:59 < dongs> Erlkoenig: that wont work with your shit
2013-03-29T16:36:06 < BrainDamage> some libs don't break API, some do
2013-03-29T16:36:09 < Erlkoenig> then let the build servers of your distro compile&link your app against that newest version
2013-03-29T16:36:17 < dongs> lol, build servers, distro
2013-03-29T16:36:18 < vmguest> Erlkoenig: you want to say that i can't download the stable version, that i can only get newest versions ?
2013-03-29T16:36:21 < dongs> or i can just continue using windows
2013-03-29T16:36:22 < BrainDamage> those that do, tend to generate lot of issues
2013-03-29T16:36:24 < dongs> because 'm not a faggot
2013-03-29T16:36:26 < dongs> goin to bed, bye
2013-03-29T16:36:30 < BrainDamage> gn
2013-03-29T16:36:32 < gxti> gtfo
2013-03-29T16:36:52 < gxti> Erlkoenig: i work on packaging software for a living. your explanation amuses me.
2013-03-29T16:37:00 <+Steffanx> Why even try to start a talk with dongs about this?
2013-03-29T16:37:00 < Erlkoenig> ah interesting
2013-03-29T16:37:06 < Erlkoenig> care to generate my windows installers? :D
2013-03-29T16:37:10 < gxti> because people don't learn Steffanx, or just bored
2013-03-29T16:37:13 < Erlkoenig> vmguest: that's the case on Arch or Gentoo and some others... you can still choose to install old versions, but that's "unsupported"
2013-03-29T16:37:14 <+Steffanx> All he can say about it is, "shit" "crap" "lunix"
2013-03-29T16:37:15 < gxti> Erlkoenig: no
2013-03-29T16:37:17 < Erlkoenig> a pity
2013-03-29T16:37:30 < Erlkoenig> maybe with $$$ tools it gets easier
2013-03-29T16:37:33 < vmguest> Erlkoenig: im kind of dissapointed..
2013-03-29T16:37:42 <+Steffanx> Please, don't go with Arch. It's a pita for beginners
2013-03-29T16:37:46 < Erlkoenig> writing the description text file on linux requires a text editor and 30 minutes
2013-03-29T16:37:49 < gxti> vmguest: so use fedora or ubuntu
2013-03-29T16:37:53 < Erlkoenig> yup
2013-03-29T16:37:54 <+Steffanx> or opensuse
2013-03-29T16:37:59 < gxti> isn't opensuse dead?
2013-03-29T16:38:02 <+Steffanx> No
2013-03-29T16:38:03 < gxti> i can't keep track anymore
2013-03-29T16:38:14 < BrainDamage> don't use arch, this from an arch user
2013-03-29T16:38:20 < vmguest> mint ?
2013-03-29T16:38:27 < BrainDamage> in the past the installation was barely tollerable
2013-03-29T16:38:32 < BrainDamage> they managed to make it worse
2013-03-29T16:38:36 < BrainDamage> "too much automated"
2013-03-29T16:38:37 <+Steffanx> The lastest version if from march this year, gxti
2013-03-29T16:38:42 <+Steffanx> Doesn't sound dead to me
2013-03-29T16:38:43 < gxti> not dead, i must have been thinking of opensolaris
2013-03-29T16:38:52 < gxti> open* is such a bad name for things
2013-03-29T16:38:57 < gxti> because they all sound the same
2013-03-29T16:39:05 < BrainDamage> open sores
2013-03-29T16:39:08 < gxti> ^
2013-03-29T16:39:16 < gxti> open lack of a creative name
2013-03-29T16:39:18 <+Steffanx> I like how it (looks like) how everything is 'well' integrated
2013-03-29T16:39:35 -!- ShiftPlusOne [~Shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2013-03-29T16:39:43 < BrainDamage> integration is something I have mixed feelings on
2013-03-29T16:39:43 <+Steffanx> but i haven't used it for a long time though :P
2013-03-29T16:39:54 < BrainDamage> partially it's good
2013-03-29T16:40:17 < BrainDamage> and partially, it generally makes a clusterfuck if you try to use something "non integrated"
2013-03-29T16:40:38 < vmguest> im watching youtube review of fedora, and i hear it's not for bare beginners....
2013-03-29T16:40:40 < BrainDamage> see gnome3's "integrated" shell
2013-03-29T16:41:03 < BrainDamage> no linux distro is for "non beguinners"
2013-03-29T16:41:08 <+Steffanx> vmguest install some versions in your vm, and try
2013-03-29T16:41:15 <+Steffanx> ubuntu kinda is
2013-03-29T16:41:17 < BrainDamage> sorry, no linux distro is for "beguinners"
2013-03-29T16:41:34 <+Steffanx> but ubuntu changes EVERYTHING every new release, so .. not really for 'beginners'
2013-03-29T16:41:45 < BrainDamage> let me put it like this:
2013-03-29T16:41:55 < BrainDamage> if the installation goes ok, and the driver work, and stuff is ok
2013-03-29T16:42:02 < vmguest> Steffanx: my w8 crashed, and im on a mint atm
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2013-03-29T16:42:07 < BrainDamage> you can espect it to work reasonably ok like win
2013-03-29T16:42:13 <+Steffanx> How you crash that  vmguest ?
2013-03-29T16:42:19 < vmguest> Steffanx: lets say
2013-03-29T16:42:25 < vmguest> i did something wrong
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2013-03-29T16:42:28 <+Steffanx> You are ranewen not?
2013-03-29T16:42:30 < BrainDamage> if you have troubles, then you're either determined, or you should try another distro :p
2013-03-29T16:42:33 < vmguest> Steffanx: yes
2013-03-29T16:42:39 < vmguest> Steffanx: good :D
2013-03-29T16:42:51 <+Steffanx> You are the only .hr guy here :)
2013-03-29T16:42:57 < vmguest> Steffanx: hehe
2013-03-29T16:43:16 < vmguest> Steffanx: idk why do you click on users
2013-03-29T16:43:34 <+Steffanx> I do?
2013-03-29T16:44:02 <+Steffanx> [15:23:13]  * vmguest (~vm@78-1-181-132.adsl.net.t-com.hr) joined ##stm32
2013-03-29T16:44:10 < vmguest> Steffanx: this was like 1 meter above
2013-03-29T16:44:35 <+Steffanx> My memory works, vmguest
2013-03-29T16:44:49 < vmguest> hm
2013-03-29T16:47:55 <+Steffanx> So no stalking today, vmguest
2013-03-29T16:48:16 < vmguest> il get a new nick..
2013-03-29T16:48:31 < vmguest> Steffanx: tell me how is mac osx
2013-03-29T16:48:47 <+Steffanx> Fine, it does what it should do
2013-03-29T16:48:56 < gxti> empty your wallet? /s
2013-03-29T16:49:21 < vmguest> Steffanx: perhaps i can change my asus to a mac
2013-03-29T16:49:49 <+Steffanx> With some luck you can install os x, but .. not sure if you want that :)
2013-03-29T16:50:03 <+Steffanx> gxti who says i run os x on Apple hw?
2013-03-29T16:50:19 < gxti> ok mr pedantic
2013-03-29T16:50:23 < gxti> it empties the wallets of people who buy macs
2013-03-29T16:50:51 < gxti> when i said "empty your wallet" i was not specifically referring to you, Steffanx, the individual but rather a metaphorical person who uses it
2013-03-29T16:51:13 <+Steffanx> ok ok, but actually i do run it on apple hw :P
2013-03-29T16:51:33 <+Steffanx> And I don't care AT ALL what you think about it
2013-03-29T16:51:47 < gxti> you care enough to tell me you don't care
2013-03-29T16:52:09 < gxti> you're a very caring person
2013-03-29T16:52:15 <+Steffanx> blabla bla
2013-03-29T16:52:34 <+Steffanx> You know, it's not even worth a discussion. Not here at least
2013-03-29T16:53:27 < gxti> nope
2013-03-29T16:53:40 < gxti> it was just a joke, and now you've gotten all serious
2013-03-29T16:54:43 <+Steffanx> You know. It's easy to say that, as i can't check if you were joking or not
2013-03-29T16:55:04 < gxti> /s means "sarcasm"
2013-03-29T16:55:16 < gxti> also it was pretty obvious i think
2013-03-29T16:55:19 <+Steffanx> in /b/ language?
2013-03-29T16:55:38 < gxti> i wouldn't know
2013-03-29T16:55:46 <+Steffanx> We need a new sarcasm sign
2013-03-29T16:56:38 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip72-223-89-10.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: emeb_mac]
2013-03-29T16:57:56 < Laurenceb_>  ##stm/b/
2013-03-29T16:59:11 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb_ disappoints me over and over again
2013-03-29T16:59:22 <+Steffanx> Always those non-existent channels
2013-03-29T16:59:53 < Laurenceb_> stm chan
2013-03-29T17:01:06 < vmguest> Steffanx: tell me... how easy it is to install apps / drivers
2013-03-29T17:01:25 < gxti> why are you asking here anyway
2013-03-29T17:01:32 <+Steffanx> In general pretty easy
2013-03-29T17:01:51 <+Steffanx> Unless you have some very exotic hw
2013-03-29T17:02:09 < vmguest> Steffanx: i am checking my compatability to make a hackintosh
2013-03-29T17:02:26 <+Steffanx> oh, for hackintosh
2013-03-29T17:02:31 < vmguest> generally i think that the main criteria is to have an intel proc, nvidia card..
2013-03-29T17:02:36 <+Steffanx> Yeah, then you really need compatible hw
2013-03-29T17:02:46 < vmguest> Steffanx: y checking it !
2013-03-29T17:05:17 <+Steffanx> Apple hw sucks btw. It's a !@#$% RF receiver.
2013-03-29T17:05:34 <+Steffanx> Long headphone cable + apple crap = radio receiver :(
2013-03-29T17:05:53 <+Steffanx> </rant>
2013-03-29T17:08:07 < vmguest> Steffanx: i guess you 2 could've saved some money http://tonymacx86.blogspot.com/2010/04/iboot-multibeast-install-mac-os-x-on.html
2013-03-29T17:09:49 <+Steffanx> perhaps
2013-03-29T17:13:08 < vmguest> but im a fan of white consumer goods....
2013-03-29T17:13:18 <+Steffanx> lol
2013-03-29T17:13:30 < vmguest> it looks like the 1990's
2013-03-29T17:13:34 < vmguest> all white :D
2013-03-29T17:13:48 <+Steffanx> What about aluminium :P
2013-03-29T17:14:08 < vmguest> actually in 1990 they used biege
2013-03-29T17:14:58 < vmguest> i send my friend to a store to buy me a "snow lion". now i have 2 hours free time......
2013-03-29T17:15:23 <+Steffanx> download it
2013-03-29T17:15:34 < vmguest> no...
2013-03-29T17:15:40 <+Steffanx> Why not?
2013-03-29T17:15:47 < vmguest> can you tell me....
2013-03-29T17:15:55 <+Steffanx> No, you refuse to download it
2013-03-29T17:16:00 < vmguest> mac extensions
2013-03-29T17:16:09 < vmguest> like on windows i had .exe on mac i have ???
2013-03-29T17:16:15 <+Steffanx> app
2013-03-29T17:16:18 <+Steffanx> .app
2013-03-29T17:16:29 <+Steffanx> or just no extension, like linux
2013-03-29T17:16:41 < vmguest> i heared that piracy apps for mac are a piece of cake to install
2013-03-29T17:16:59 < vmguest> *pirate apps
2013-03-29T17:17:07 <+Steffanx> Just as easy as on any other os
2013-03-29T17:17:08 < gxti> i must have wandered into #OSXPiracy by mistake again
2013-03-29T17:17:17 <+Steffanx> Yes, i think so gxti
2013-03-29T17:18:06 <+Steffanx> Is talking about something illegal also piracy gxti ?
2013-03-29T17:18:12 <+Steffanx> *illegal = less legal
2013-03-29T17:18:25 < gxti> no talking is not piracy, wtf
2013-03-29T17:18:28 < vmguest> since we are just talking..
2013-03-29T17:18:34 < gxti> vmguest: why are you here
2013-03-29T17:18:35 <+Steffanx> ok ok
2013-03-29T17:18:37 < vmguest> would you arrest us for our thinking ?
2013-03-29T17:18:57 < vmguest> gxti: im here for os help
2013-03-29T17:19:07 <+Steffanx> Anyway gxti is right vmguest :)
2013-03-29T17:19:20 < vmguest> gxti: i dont see that you actually do what this chanell is about !!!!!
2013-03-29T17:19:29 <+Steffanx> ##stm32 .. stm32 :D
2013-03-29T17:19:55 < vmguest> gxti: if you want il leave.
2013-03-29T17:20:41 < gxti> i'm just curious why you joined a channel and start asking unrelated questions
2013-03-29T17:20:51 < gxti> offtopic is one thing if you're already there
2013-03-29T17:21:00 < gxti> but ... ?
2013-03-29T17:21:15 < vmguest> gxti: unrelated, you notice that now !
2013-03-29T17:23:33 -!- CheBuzz [~CheBuzz@76.164.192.124] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
2013-03-29T17:23:47 < vmguest> Steffanx: either way, is there any freeware software community  for macs ?
2013-03-29T17:24:15 <+Steffanx>  #mac :)
2013-03-29T17:24:32 <+Steffanx> * #macosx
2013-03-29T17:24:35 < vmguest> kkkk
2013-03-29T17:24:50 < vmguest> channel is invite only.
2013-03-29T17:24:52 -!- CheBuzz [~CheBuzz@76.164.192.124] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-29T17:25:09 < gxti> you probably have to register your nick to join
2013-03-29T17:25:23 -!- vmguest is now known as Ranween
2013-03-29T17:25:28 -!- Ranween is now known as Ranewen
2013-03-29T17:29:25 -!- [1]MrMobius [~Joey@194.176.111.28] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-29T17:31:30 -!- inca [~inca@cpe-173-88-167-240.neo.res.rr.com] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-29T17:31:37 -!- MrMobius [~Joey@194.176.111.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2013-03-29T17:32:43 < Ranewen> Steffanx: it's so funny
2013-03-29T17:32:54 < Ranewen> Steffanx: the channell is about os x and i get like this
2013-03-29T17:32:55 < Ranewen> <zer0her0> CPng|N: please don't help the hackintoshers in channel.
2013-03-29T17:34:20 <+Steffanx> ok
2013-03-29T17:34:49 <+Steffanx> but gxti was right, this isn't the right channel for that either
2013-03-29T17:35:23 < Ranewen> Steffanx: k, i just wanted to mention it 2 you
2013-03-29T17:36:59 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip72-223-89-10.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-29T17:39:59 < Laurenceb_> you need to pay to apple tax
2013-03-29T17:40:03 < Laurenceb_> *the
2013-03-29T17:40:22 < Ranewen> Laurenceb_: this isn't the channel to speak about that
2013-03-29T17:40:31 < Ranewen> Laurenceb_: :((
2013-03-29T17:44:36 -!- bsdfox [~Bob@unaffiliated/bsdfox] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-29T17:54:13 < Laurenceb_> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1118554213/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1118554213&linkCode=as2&tag=gastronomydom-21
2013-03-29T17:54:15 < Laurenceb_> i lolled
2013-03-29T17:54:40 < Laurenceb_> true title is true
2013-03-29T17:55:29 < Laurenceb_> &linkCode=as2&tag=gastronomydom-21  <- hmmmmmm
2013-03-29T17:56:56 < Ranewen> Laurenceb_: took me a while to get it
2013-03-29T17:57:41 < Laurenceb_>  "Liz" is doing something odd with links
2013-03-29T18:05:19 <+Steffanx> the first op april isn't today!
2013-03-29T18:05:51 < Erlkoenig> why are there only lots of books about the easy subjects?
2013-03-29T18:05:52 < Ranewen> i cant imagine what this chanell will look like
2013-03-29T18:06:29 <+Steffanx> There are enough books about difficult stuff, but those are VERY VERY expensive Erlkoenig
2013-03-29T18:06:48 < Erlkoenig> hm, probably
2013-03-29T18:06:53 <+Steffanx> Go away Ranewen. It'll look much better :P
2013-03-29T18:07:13 < Ranewen> Steffanx: :(
2013-03-29T18:07:15 -!- Ranewen [~vm@78-1-181-132.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has left ##stm32 ["Leaving"]
2013-03-29T18:07:34 < Erlkoenig> like there is exactly ONE book about Cortex-M3, none about M4, and none about STM32, but lots about e.g. AVR
2013-03-29T18:08:49 <+Steffanx> A book about m3?
2013-03-29T18:08:51 < Erlkoenig> also i did not buy any e-reader because the interesting books are not available as e-books...
2013-03-29T18:09:17 < Erlkoenig> www.amazon.de/dp/185617963X/  or are there more?
2013-03-29T18:10:18 <+Steffanx> e-readers aren't nice for books like that anyway
2013-03-29T18:10:54 < Erlkoenig> at least they are lighter :D
2013-03-29T18:11:46 <+Steffanx> Yes, but they don't make your life easier ( when used for study books )
2013-03-29T18:12:07 < Erlkoenig> depends, you can't write notes in books from the library either
2013-03-29T18:12:49 <+Steffanx> Yes, but you can read/skip through the pages very fast. etc.
2013-03-29T18:13:00 <+Steffanx> You cant do that as fast with an e-reader
2013-03-29T18:13:19 < Erlkoenig> you can't do that with books on hard topics anyway :D
2013-03-29T18:13:23 < Erlkoenig> but there is Ctrl+F :P
2013-03-29T18:13:52 <+Steffanx> That's why i like to have a book in pdf and 'on paper' :)
2013-03-29T18:14:16 -!- [1]MrMobius [~Joey@194.176.111.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2013-03-29T18:14:49  * Steffanx wonders when gxti will say: Since when this is #bookpiracy ?
2013-03-29T18:15:16 -!- Robint91 [~Robin@dD5776E9E.access.telenet.be] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-29T18:15:31 < Robint91> hi all
2013-03-29T18:16:14 <+Steffanx> g'afternoon sir
2013-03-29T18:16:18 < emeb> Hello Robint91
2013-03-29T18:16:37 < Erlkoenig> who was talking about piracy?
2013-03-29T18:16:47 < Robint91> bioshock infinite is epic
2013-03-29T18:16:49 < emeb> Arrr!
2013-03-29T18:16:57 <+Steffanx> A book in pdf format isn't very legal most of the time, Erlkoenig
2013-03-29T18:17:06 < Erlkoenig> depends, you can buy those too
2013-03-29T18:17:39 <+Steffanx> Yeah, most of the time for even more $$
2013-03-29T18:18:44 < inca> So it is illegal to cut the binding of a book and run it through your OCR scanner, eh?
2013-03-29T18:19:21 <+Steffanx> gxti : Now you see. It's not Ranewen's fault. People join this channel to talk about all kind of random (computer related ) stuff
2013-03-29T18:19:36 <+Steffanx> inca, yes it is
2013-03-29T18:19:42  * inca sighs
2013-03-29T18:19:51 < inca> then we are all pir8s
2013-03-29T18:19:58 <+Steffanx> Most books say it's not allowed to "copy, digitalize blablabla" without permission
2013-03-29T18:20:18 < pelrun> just because they say it doesn't mean it's backed by force of law
2013-03-29T18:20:28 -!- MrMobius [~Joey@194.176.111.28] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-29T18:20:31  * inca nods
2013-03-29T18:20:37 <+Steffanx> Im pretty sure the lawer here agrees with it
2013-03-29T18:20:57 <+Steffanx> +y
2013-03-29T18:21:04 < pelrun> copyrights shouldn't supercede property rights
2013-03-29T18:21:08 <+Steffanx> * mean..
2013-03-29T18:21:14 <+Steffanx> not a lawyer :P
2013-03-29T18:21:23 < inca> Can claim anything you want with EULA, but first amendment in US at least >> what someone else's lawyer wrote in terms of binding agreements
2013-03-29T18:21:25 <+Steffanx> The judge
2013-03-29T18:21:43 <+Steffanx> but.. i'm not going to discuss copyright crap here
2013-03-29T18:21:46 < inca> haha
2013-03-29T18:21:52 < inca> it is the overhead of life
2013-03-29T18:22:05 < inca> can't do work on STM32 without consulting the lawyers
2013-03-29T18:22:22 < inca> do I do GPL, BSD, or allow proprietary?
2013-03-29T18:22:41 < pelrun> all three XD
2013-03-29T18:22:50 < inca> taboo
2013-03-29T18:22:59 < pelrun> depending on which bit of hardware I've got on my desk at the time
2013-03-29T18:23:26 < Laurenceb_> you can scan for personal use
2013-03-29T18:23:35 <+Steffanx> In the UK perhaps
2013-03-29T18:23:38 < Laurenceb_> if you start emailing it to everyone there is an issue
2013-03-29T18:23:41 < pelrun> my grandmother scanned hundreds of technical books
2013-03-29T18:23:54 < pelrun> which were used by a great many people
2013-03-29T18:24:05 < pelrun> (royal blind society, hehe)
2013-03-29T18:24:28 < inca> heh, yeah… this stuff barely works with all the bits and pieces aligned… and besides, the rule of law in US is a joke. Marriage equality will probably pass in supreme court by another split 5/4 decision.
2013-03-29T18:24:49 < pelrun> don't get us started on us idiocy
2013-03-29T18:25:14 < inca> hard to respect The Law
2013-03-29T18:25:15 <+Steffanx> No, dongs isnt here right now, so dont start that yet
2013-03-29T18:25:20 < inca> ok ok
2013-03-29T18:25:30  * inca pokes dongs 
2013-03-29T18:25:38 < pelrun> as far as the lawyers are concerned, the law is "whatever we can get away with"
2013-03-29T18:25:53 < pelrun> gotta have some skepticism
2013-03-29T18:25:53  * inca nods
2013-03-29T18:26:04 < inca> mysticism...
2013-03-29T18:26:19 < inca> I think software developers are better lawyers than lawyers, at times
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2013-03-29T18:26:42 < pelrun> augh, god no
2013-03-29T18:26:46 < pelrun> I have scruples
2013-03-29T18:26:55 < inca> haha, that's what I mean =)
2013-03-29T18:27:41 < inca> anyway… back to slaving away on this F107 micrel ethernet driver
2013-03-29T18:28:17 < pelrun> sounds painful
2013-03-29T18:28:35 <+Steffanx> Not really
2013-03-29T18:28:41 < inca> it has been painful
2013-03-29T18:28:52 < inca> but mostly of my own fault =\
2013-03-29T18:29:01 <+Steffanx> Using the st peripheral lib for that ?
2013-03-29T18:29:09 < inca> yes, at the moment
2013-03-29T18:29:23 <+Steffanx> Now i understand the pain
2013-03-29T18:29:31 < pelrun> stperiphlib and I have an understanding now
2013-03-29T18:29:43 < pelrun> it doesn't shit me, I don't punch it in the nose
2013-03-29T18:29:47 < inca> I am interested in moving it over to opencm3
2013-03-29T18:30:34 < inca> but then again, just getting the example project to compile has been a PITA
2013-03-29T18:30:48 < inca> I don't have a demo board, but a custom dev'd board
2013-03-29T18:30:57 < pelrun> I flashed blackmagic onto my vl discovery board
2013-03-29T18:31:15 < pelrun> getting the opencm3 lib in it to compile was problematic
2013-03-29T18:31:33 < inca> I am seriously considering blackmagic onto my F4 discovery board as a programmer instead of commercial st-link
2013-03-29T18:31:50 < pelrun> although in the end it was sorted by me turfing codesourcery and using gnu-arm-embedded instead
2013-03-29T18:31:51 < inca> what kind of pain ?
2013-03-29T18:31:58 < inca> ah
2013-03-29T18:32:04 < inca> yes, codesourcery is dying
2013-03-29T18:32:12 < pelrun> I think the codesourcery libc is somewhat bloated
2013-03-29T18:32:36 < inca> it's been "the best" for a while, now I see why ARM decided to get involved through GNU
2013-03-29T18:32:37 < pelrun> blackmagic is the shit, btw
2013-03-29T18:32:48 < inca> semi hosting without too much pain?
2013-03-29T18:32:57 -!- barthess [~barthess@178.154.20.211] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-29T18:33:00 < pelrun> especially if you're replacing a stlink v1 firmware XD
2013-03-29T18:33:08 < pelrun> haven't gotten semihosting working yet
2013-03-29T18:33:09 -!- ohama [~ohama@cicolina.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2013-03-29T18:33:17 < inca> both of my stlinks are v2
2013-03-29T18:33:27 < pelrun> the vl discovery doesn't have the traceswo pin broken out
2013-03-29T18:33:33 < pelrun> think I need to fix that
2013-03-29T18:33:43 < inca> I love the autocorrect on this IRC client: stlink -> stink
2013-03-29T18:33:47 < pelrun> hahaha
2013-03-29T18:33:50 <+Steffanx> Laurenceb_ you are into ublox not? Which gps have you used?
2013-03-29T18:33:58 < pelrun> definitely appropriate for v1
2013-03-29T18:34:02 < Laurenceb_> ublox
2013-03-29T18:34:04 < Laurenceb_> FTW
2013-03-29T18:34:05 < Robint91> what does the traceswo?
2013-03-29T18:34:09 <+Steffanx> It seems the modules are 'hard to get'
2013-03-29T18:34:19 < gxti> Steffanx: i bought 10 NEO-6M from china
2013-03-29T18:34:21 < pelrun> it's a debugging data channel
2013-03-29T18:34:23 < gxti> works good
2013-03-29T18:34:30 < inca> can it be remapped?
2013-03-29T18:34:32 < gxti> other than that specific thing, yes hard to source
2013-03-29T18:34:40 < Laurenceb_> Steffanx: you can but at ublox themselves
2013-03-29T18:34:46 < pelrun> maybe
2013-03-29T18:34:48 <+Steffanx> Yes, but that one looks quite large gxti. I'm kinda space restricted
2013-03-29T18:34:58 < Laurenceb_> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
2013-03-29T18:34:59 < pelrun> problem is the pins just aren't broken out of the programmer ic
2013-03-29T18:35:01 <+Steffanx> Yes, for $$$$++, Laurenceb_
2013-03-29T18:35:02 < Laurenceb_> ^ also there
2013-03-29T18:35:06 < Laurenceb_> its cheaper
2013-03-29T18:35:07 < pelrun> I'll just greenwire it
2013-03-29T18:35:10 < Robint91> pelrun, an intelligent printf?
2013-03-29T18:35:22 < pelrun> it depends on what the code does
2013-03-29T18:35:38 < pelrun> it's not just a serial channel
2013-03-29T18:35:44 < inca> So in !Windows dev env, would F4 discovery + blackmagic >> commercial st-link v2?
2013-03-29T18:35:53 -!- ohama [ohama@cicolina.org] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-29T18:36:12 < Laurenceb_> ohama bin laden
2013-03-29T18:36:14 < pelrun> semihosting lets you do things like do fopen on the stm32 and open a file on the PC
2013-03-29T18:36:19 < inca> I have not gotten OpenOCD to work with the commercial st-link v2 yet, just texane's stutil
2013-03-29T18:36:38 < pelrun> don't need texane/stlink with blackmagic
2013-03-29T18:36:42 < inca> which does not have semi-hosting… yet, afaik
2013-03-29T18:36:50 < inca> right, hence my interest
2013-03-29T18:36:56 < pelrun> the gdbserver is on-chip
2013-03-29T18:36:59 < inca> straight gdb to to bm
2013-03-29T18:37:00 < Robint91> pelrun, what supports the traceswo?
2013-03-29T18:37:31 < pelrun> the proprietary toolchains do
2013-03-29T18:37:47 < pelrun> I think newlib in gcc-arm-embedded does too
2013-03-29T18:38:02 < pelrun> just haven't had time to try it yet
2013-03-29T18:38:23 < pelrun> not sure what else is needed
2013-03-29T18:39:08 < inca> oh right, traceswo is for watching variables and such
2013-03-29T18:40:01 < inca> so back to original question, to determine if modding my F4 discovery board is worth it...
2013-03-29T18:40:17 < inca> F4 discovery + blackmagic >> commercial st-link v2
2013-03-29T18:40:35 < pelrun> I had two vl's and an f4, so it didn't bother me to sacrifice a vl to blackmagic :)
2013-03-29T18:40:48 < pelrun> now I know it works, I'll probably do the other two
2013-03-29T18:41:31 < pelrun> esp. since it also gives you a second usb-serial port direct to the target, saves an ftdi cable
2013-03-29T18:42:20 < pelrun> anyway, I've only just got it working, so I probably need another week of playing with it before I can give a unqualified recommendation
2013-03-29T18:44:47 < inca> understood
2013-03-29T18:44:57 < inca> have you used the commercial st-link v2?
2013-03-29T18:45:58 < inca> it's the same F103 as F4 Discovery board AFAICT, though I heard a rumor that it might have more memory than the discovery variant
2013-03-29T18:49:49 < qyx_> http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/peterfr2/QAM.htm
2013-03-29T18:50:06 < qyx_> nice sdr back in 2008
2013-03-29T18:51:34 < inca> is there is good open SDR spec yet?
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2013-03-29T19:00:56 < BJfreeman> interesting STM32f1 dev system http://www.ebay.com/itm/Open103Z-P-A-STM32F103ZET6-STM32F103-STM32-Development-Board-9-Accessory-Module-/250871176822?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a69165e76
2013-03-29T19:01:58 < Erlkoenig> old
2013-03-29T19:02:21 < zyp> I have the equivalent F4 board
2013-03-29T19:04:13 < BJfreeman> I bought a bunch of the f4 discovery boards
2013-03-29T19:05:27 < inca> what for?
2013-03-29T19:08:01 < BJfreeman> differnt projects
2013-03-29T19:08:02 < inca> wtf, I need adobe to read ST pdfs now?
2013-03-29T19:10:45 < inca> grr… so yes, it looks like the F103C8T6 on the F4 discovery is equiv. to the commercial st-link v2
2013-03-29T19:11:54 < inca> general consensus seems to be that Blackmagic is worth the effort
2013-03-29T19:11:59 < qyx_> inca: which pdf?
2013-03-29T19:12:26 < inca> http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/productcatalog/jsp/unzipFiles.jsp?zipLink=http://www.st.com//stonline/md/dm00076629/STM32F103C8T6_md.zip&fileType=pdf&fileName=STM32F103C8T6, http://www.st.com/web/catalog/mmc/FM141/SC1169/SS1031/LN1565/PF164476
2013-03-29T19:13:41 < qyx_> O_o whats that
2013-03-29T19:14:21 <+Steffanx> Thanks for the link Laurenceb_ ill get me one
2013-03-29T19:14:51 < inca> I was trying to figure out if the STM32F103CT chip markings indicated similarity between the F4 discovery and commercial st-link v2 chips
2013-03-29T19:18:21 < inca> so what I don't understand is why the F4 discovery board needs modified in order to load blackmagic debugger
2013-03-29T19:19:16 < inca> the windows st-link software is about to flash new st-link software via DFU mode over USB
2013-03-29T19:19:37 < inca> s/about/able/
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2013-03-29T19:22:10 <+Steffanx> Which one did you buy gxti ? The one including the big ass antenna?
2013-03-29T19:22:30 < gxti> Steffanx: no antenna
2013-03-29T19:22:32 < gxti> just the module
2013-03-29T19:22:41  * inca poke gsmcmullin 
2013-03-29T19:22:41 <+Steffanx> What kind of antenna you use?
2013-03-29T19:25:36 <+Steffanx> I guess it doesn't perform well for you without it, gxti ?
2013-03-29T19:25:53 < gxti> using an off-board antenna obviously
2013-03-29T19:30:02 < Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/68579973@N02/8601080536/lightbox/
2013-03-29T19:30:33 <+Steffanx> oh, fancy chip antenna
2013-03-29T19:31:45 < Laurenceb_> and failpcb
2013-03-29T19:31:58 <+Steffanx> Did it work?
2013-03-29T19:32:18 < Laurenceb_> dunno
2013-03-29T19:32:23 < Laurenceb_> repost
2013-03-29T19:32:28 -!- mrcan [~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2013-03-29T19:32:43 <+Steffanx> You're unbanned from #highaltitude?
2013-03-29T19:33:20 < Laurenceb_> heh
2013-03-29T19:33:56 < Laurenceb_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/68579973@N02/8529869188/in/photostream
2013-03-29T19:33:58 < Laurenceb_> i lolled
2013-03-29T19:42:23 <+dekar_> Steffanx, yeah go brute force through the top of it :)
2013-03-29T19:43:00 <+Steffanx> wgoa, dekar_ is alive
2013-03-29T19:44:37 <+dekar_> izua seems to be on a pretty scary adventure, he told me about fighting off snakes on some plane O.o
2013-03-29T19:45:10 <+Steffanx> izua .. who is that?
2013-03-29T19:45:55 <+dekar_> has been a while I guess...
2013-03-29T19:46:01 < pelrun> inca: stlink has a pretty silly and broken encrypted dfu bootloader thing
2013-03-29T19:46:07 <+Steffanx> Last seen  : Nov 20 21:18:53 2012 (18 weeks, 2 days, 20:27:09 ago) dekar_
2013-03-29T19:46:38 <+Steffanx> Where/how he told you that dekar_ ?
2013-03-29T19:46:39 < pelrun> you need to replace that with a decent DFU bootloader to put arbitrary applications (like blackmagic) on there instead
2013-03-29T19:46:53 <+dekar_> phone
2013-03-29T19:47:03 <+Steffanx> You called him?
2013-03-29T19:47:13 < pelrun> and for that you need to get the stlink's programming pins to a header
2013-03-29T19:47:26 <+dekar_> he sent me a text
2013-03-29T19:47:48 <+Steffanx> Say hi from me next time :)
2013-03-29T19:47:55 < pelrun> once the bootloader is on there you can undo the mods
2013-03-29T19:47:56 <+dekar_> will do :)
2013-03-29T19:48:21 <+Steffanx> but .. fightning snakes on planes. Where the f*ck is he going?
2013-03-29T19:48:35 <+dekar_> I have no idea at all
2013-03-29T19:48:52 < inca> pelrun: I thought the encrypted stuff was broken?
2013-03-29T19:49:19 < inca> in other words, we have the crypto algorithm and the keys
2013-03-29T19:49:28 < inca> AES, IIRC
2013-03-29T19:50:06 < pelrun> yeah, but do you really want to figure out how to encrypt your application and format it so that the st updater will accept it?
2013-03-29T19:50:19 < pelrun> seems like too much of a pain in the arse to me
2013-03-29T19:50:54 < inca> well… if it means less hardware modding and a lower threshold for everyone else with an ST-LINK v2 to upgrade to blackmagic, then probably
2013-03-29T19:51:10 < pelrun> the mods are a piece of piss though
2013-03-29T19:51:16 < inca> true
2013-03-29T19:51:27 <+Steffanx> The keys ST uses are fantastic :)
2013-03-29T19:51:32 < inca> nothing quite like just plugging in and re-flashing though
2013-03-29T19:51:41 < inca> =)
2013-03-29T19:51:46 < pelrun> Steffanx, yeah, "I am a key, wawawa"
2013-03-29T19:52:13 < inca> I can see the perl script already
2013-03-29T19:52:17 < pelrun> it'd be interesting to see if the stlink firmware can be decrypted completely and just flashed via the replaced DFU
2013-03-29T19:52:33 < inca> Crypt::OpenSSL::AES
2013-03-29T19:52:52 < pelrun> no reason why it shouldn't if it starts at 0x08002000
2013-03-29T19:52:56 < inca> right
2013-03-29T19:53:13 < pelrun> ...not that I'm going back to v1 *vomit*
2013-03-29T19:53:30  * inca shivers
2013-03-29T19:53:43 < inca> stick with v2
2013-03-29T19:54:26 < inca> weird broken scsi over usb that only just barely works in windows is not my idea of a dev tool
2013-03-29T19:54:53 <+Steffanx> it does work on os x, with some codeless kext
2013-03-29T19:55:26 < inca> it's okay… I don't have a v1 to test anyway
2013-03-29T19:55:36 < inca> unless it has been written up for qemu or something
2013-03-29T19:56:02 < inca> in any case, AES, I am a key, wawawa
2013-03-29T19:57:41 < inca> on windows I can reflash infinitely to either stlink the latest firmware
2013-03-29T19:59:15 < inca> so the idea would be to decrypt a standalone version of stlink firmware, encrypt the blackmagic boot loader plus what else? and inject that as the payload
2013-03-29T19:59:18 < inca> see what it does
2013-03-29T19:59:39 < inca> recovery is by holding reset on power up and flashing old image
2013-03-29T20:01:19 <+Steffanx> Too bad the guy who figured everything out didn't continue his work
2013-03-29T20:02:25 < inca> did he get bumped off? =)
2013-03-29T20:02:33 <+Steffanx> Who knows
2013-03-29T20:02:50 < inca> is there a wiki I could use for a task like this?
2013-03-29T20:03:08 < inca> I've noticed a distinct lack of permanence for cited wiki content
2013-03-29T20:03:14 < inca> for stm32 stuff
2013-03-29T20:04:26 <+Steffanx> There is just the one in the topic, but that one is empty-ish
2013-03-29T20:04:51 < inca> doesn't seem too permanent of a domain
2013-03-29T20:04:57 < Laurenceb_> too busy trolling to write wikis
2013-03-29T20:04:59 < inca> and it's google rank is low
2013-03-29T20:05:09 < inca> hmm
2013-03-29T20:05:14 < inca> GDrive it is, then
2013-03-29T20:05:39 <+Steffanx> it is pretty permanent. It's there for a quiet some time now
2013-03-29T20:05:53 <+Steffanx> oh, not even a year
2013-03-29T20:06:33 < Tectu> Steffanx, still fine fine over there?
2013-03-29T20:06:45 <+Steffanx> Yeah, where have you been all day long?
2013-03-29T20:07:24 <+Steffanx> inca, you want it to have it's own domain? stm32-crap.com ? :P
2013-03-29T20:07:52 < Tectu> Steffanx, here, in front of my computer watching your posts
2013-03-29T20:07:54 < inca> haha… well, that /does/ help pagerank
2013-03-29T20:07:56 < inca> so yes
2013-03-29T20:08:15 <+Steffanx> dongs should point tarduino.cc to it
2013-03-29T20:10:33 < inca> =)
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2013-03-29T20:15:06 < inca> quick poll: for simple network application with preemptive kernel on STM32F1, what is your preferred RTOS?
2013-03-29T20:16:44 < inca> Chibi, FreeRTOS, RTX, other?
2013-03-29T20:18:00 < qyx_> chibi & lwip
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2013-03-29T20:18:58 < inca> thanks
2013-03-29T20:19:20 < qyx_> worked with freertos some time ago, it's a  mess imho
2013-03-29T20:19:24 < qyx_> and lacks hal
2013-03-29T20:19:39 < inca> I like HAL
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2013-03-29T20:20:19 < Erlkoenig> HAL was kicked from linux
2013-03-29T20:20:40 < inca> then I like it all the more… BSD ftw
2013-03-29T20:21:27 < inca> I know that makes no sense
2013-03-29T20:22:02 <+Steffanx> This channel is full with that, so no problem inca
2013-03-29T20:23:08 < pelrun> I used FreeRTOS on avr32. It was okay.
2013-03-29T20:23:15 < inca> has anyone played with the RTX RTOS that's been released by ARM somewhat recently?
2013-03-29T20:23:21 < pelrun> avr32 libs were *not* okay.
2013-03-29T20:23:26 < inca> hmm
2013-03-29T20:27:29 < inca> oh, I guess embed is the living, breathing version of RTX
2013-03-29T20:27:44 < inca> s/embed/mbed/
2013-03-29T20:28:31 < Robint91> RTX is crap
2013-03-29T20:28:54 < inca> whyfor?
2013-03-29T20:29:48 < Robint91> inca, unlogical definitions for tasks, etc etc
2013-03-29T20:30:11 < inca> ah, the usual… hardware folks writing software again? =)
2013-03-29T20:30:26 < inca> or vice versa?
2013-03-29T20:30:54  * inca wishes CS and EE never split
2013-03-29T20:35:59 < gxti> except CS doesn't teach people anything practical about programming anyway
2013-03-29T20:36:28 < Erlkoenig> i study CS and we have mandatory java and C courses
2013-03-29T20:36:37 < gxti> and from what i've heard, EE doesn't teach people anything practical about designing real hardware either. so you could merge them and get twice the institutional incompetence!
2013-03-29T20:37:07 < Erlkoenig> make two subjects "useful EE+CS" and "academical nonsense in EE+CS"
2013-03-29T20:40:38 < pelrun> I don't use most of the stuff I learned in either my EE *or* CS courses
2013-03-29T20:40:52 < pelrun> and yet I'm doing embedded work. :D
2013-03-29T20:40:57 < inca> I think we are witnessing a crux in the utility of education as a specialty
2013-03-29T20:41:22 < pelrun> pretty much learned electronics *after* I finished uni
2013-03-29T20:41:26 < inca> why separate economic productivity from learning?
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2013-03-29T20:42:13 < Erlkoenig> in theory, the education system has nothing to do with productivity or the economics
2013-03-29T20:42:20 < inca> most EE and CS makes no sense until time = $/hr comes into the mix
2013-03-29T20:42:25 < inca> hah
2013-03-29T20:42:26 < pelrun> because the EE was about as practical as java on a PIC XD
2013-03-29T20:42:46 < pelrun> although the digital subjects were useful in the end
2013-03-29T20:42:47 < Erlkoenig> the education system is to f*ck your brain until you are able to stuff as much nonse as is told in your brain, and vomit it out on the exam
2013-03-29T20:43:02 < inca> heh… that's "schooling"
2013-03-29T20:43:27 < Erlkoenig> and such to have an arbitrary criteria to generate "Marks" that then serve as an arbitrary criteria to not hire people
2013-03-29T20:43:44 < inca> mm… that's social control
2013-03-29T20:43:49 < inca> works vs. the owners
2013-03-29T20:43:54 < inca> workers*
2013-03-29T20:43:54 < Erlkoenig> instead of looking at marks during hiring, you could as well roll a dice
2013-03-29T20:44:07 < inca> or just train people?
2013-03-29T20:44:15 < Erlkoenig> that's too expensive
2013-03-29T20:44:19 < inca> hah
2013-03-29T20:44:25 < inca> yet they all do it anyway
2013-03-29T20:46:56 < Erlkoenig> the uni has subjects on CS, EE, and Maths. if i could combine them at will (and get graded on them) i would result as a highly-specialiced expert for some fancy topic and probably have good chances in the industry - but that's impossible, you are forced to do the same thing everyone does
2013-03-29T20:47:59 < inca> I went to a state school… the classes were mostly fluff until upper level real world EE… learned all my technical skills on student projects
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2013-03-29T20:48:35 < inca> went on to professional life and it was boring
2013-03-29T20:48:56 < inca> now it is interesting contract work
2013-03-29T20:49:16 < Erlkoenig> i actually learnt some interesting things possibly applicable in real life - in the theoretical informatics topic
2013-03-29T20:49:52 < inca> yeah, I have found it hard to apply the most interesting things learned in classes
2013-03-29T20:50:07 < inca> especially when fighting a damn dev env. for a simple micro
2013-03-29T20:50:29 < Erlkoenig> ha... meet the real world :D
2013-03-29T20:50:48 < inca> too true!
2013-03-29T20:51:31 < Erlkoenig> http://games.2g2s.de/?page_id=314  to prove theoretical informatics useful, i wrote this minimal (281 lines) parser for arbitrary context free grammars... you can pass in a grammar definition in some "intuitive" language (BNF), apply it on some input string and get a parser tree
2013-03-29T20:52:07 < Erlkoenig> i found this very interesting ;)
2013-03-29T20:53:37 < inca> is that like OMeta at all??
2013-03-29T20:54:22 < Erlkoenig> possibly... well it's not "new" but cool because tiny and "easy" to understand
2013-03-29T20:55:01 < inca> hmm… formatting an wrap are fubar on chrome
2013-03-29T20:56:04 < Erlkoenig> i should mail this to my prof
2013-03-29T20:56:27 < inca> yes
2013-03-29T20:57:37 < inca> google translate is not nice to your formatting =)
2013-03-29T20:58:02 < Erlkoenig> haha... sorry for german-only but it was on purpose for my co-students ^^
2013-03-29T20:58:57 < inca> so do you have an example of its use?
2013-03-29T20:59:27 < inca> a BNF language spec and requirements to run? this is cool
2013-03-29T21:00:40 < inca> I bet the FONC folks would get a kick out of it
2013-03-29T21:01:30 < inca> http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
2013-03-29T21:01:33 < Erlkoenig> yes at the buttom
2013-03-29T21:01:37 < Erlkoenig> *bottom
2013-03-29T21:01:47 < Erlkoenig> a BNF for simple arithmetic expressions and a sample expression
2013-03-29T21:01:54 < Erlkoenig> executing the ruby file will output its parse tre
2013-03-29T21:01:55 < Erlkoenig> e
2013-03-29T21:02:18 < Erlkoenig> uh think so? it's not new, yacc and flex are doing things like this for ages
2013-03-29T21:03:51 < inca> yacc and flex are way longer than 300 lines of code
2013-03-29T21:03:55 < inca> and nobody understands them
2013-03-29T21:06:02 < Erlkoenig> ha yes :D
2013-03-29T21:06:05 <+Steffanx> Erlkoenig co-students dont understand english?
2013-03-29T21:06:15 < Erlkoenig> but they are probably actually useful :>
2013-03-29T21:06:29 < Erlkoenig> Steffanx: surprisingly, some don't... wanted to make it easy, though
2013-03-29T21:09:08 < inca> Erlkoenig: Would you mind putting that up on github or similar in English?
2013-03-29T21:09:28 -!- bsdfox [~Bob@unaffiliated/bsdfox] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2013-03-29T21:10:57 <+Steffanx> google translate, lol
2013-03-29T21:11:38 <+Steffanx> My german is actualyl still good enough to understand everything
2013-03-29T21:11:42 < Erlkoenig> inca: hm i could make an english version on my page ^^
2013-03-29T21:12:27 <+Steffanx> What kind of games you play Erlkoenig ?
2013-03-29T21:12:31 <+Steffanx> nvm
2013-03-29T21:12:33 <+Steffanx> crap
2013-03-29T21:12:40 < inca> Fair enough! I have some friends I'd like to share it with, but I know that if I put them through the google translate their eyes will bleed
2013-03-29T21:12:42 < Erlkoenig> Minecraft, TF2, Starcraft, Age of Empires
2013-03-29T21:12:59 < inca> SC2 or orig?
2013-03-29T21:13:13 < Erlkoenig> SC2 WIngs of Liberty
2013-03-29T21:13:21 < Erlkoenig> HotS is too expensive yet :>
2013-03-29T21:13:53 < inca> cool cool
2013-03-29T21:15:11 <+Steffanx> You disappoint me too often Erlkoenig
2013-03-29T21:15:14 <+Steffanx> Minecraft?!
2013-03-29T21:15:21 < Erlkoenig> yeah minecraft :3
2013-03-29T21:15:22 <+Steffanx> and 0b11111 <= in your code.
2013-03-29T21:17:20 < Erlkoenig> ok i m translating it... seems like the english terms are the same ^^
2013-03-29T21:17:50 < inca> =)
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2013-03-29T21:23:10 < inca> found the Ometa link I was looking for… Erlkoenig, you may find this thesis by A. Warth interesting: http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2008003_experimenting.pdf
2013-03-29T21:24:00 < Erlkoenig> wah omg.
2013-03-29T21:24:30 < inca> hmm?
2013-03-29T21:25:52 < Erlkoenig> long and theoretical ^^
2013-03-29T21:26:17 < inca> it is more up to date than the short paper from 2007
2013-03-29T21:26:28 < inca> most of the reading is optional
2013-03-29T21:26:33 < inca> skip to the examples
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2013-03-29T22:01:12 < Erlkoenig> inca:
2013-03-29T22:01:13 < Erlkoenig> http://games.2g2s.de/?page_id=363
2013-03-29T22:07:14 < Erlkoenig> looks like it fails with newer ruby versions :S
2013-03-29T22:07:24 -!- daku is now known as DaKu
2013-03-29T22:11:45 <+Steffanx> lol that pag is weird
2013-03-29T22:11:59 <+Steffanx> First the code had like 50 empty lines
2013-03-29T22:12:10 <+Steffanx> after a reload only ~10 and now it's 0
2013-03-29T22:12:14 < BrainDamage> s/that pag/this channe/
2013-03-29T22:12:39 <+Steffanx> No, that page from Erlkoenig
2013-03-29T22:12:56 < Erlkoenig> okay fixed
2013-03-29T22:13:29 < Erlkoenig> hu it's just wordpress, so i can't do much wrong :D
2013-03-29T22:13:38 < Erlkoenig> the code works now with ruby 2.0
2013-03-29T22:13:52 <+Steffanx> ive never liked ruby :)
2013-03-29T22:13:59 < BrainDamage> except using wordpress
2013-03-29T22:15:11 < Erlkoenig> ruby is very nice,especially for such things
2013-03-29T22:15:26 < Erlkoenig> BrainDamage: no it's like okay
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2013-03-29T23:25:10 < Tectu> Steffanx, !
2013-03-29T23:25:22 <+Steffanx> Tectu,
2013-03-29T23:25:31 < Tectu> no !-thing?
2013-03-29T23:29:04 < Tectu> Steffanx, wo bleibt mein Ausrufezeichen?
2013-03-29T23:29:17 < Erlkoenig> hier haste welche: !!!!!!!!!!
2013-03-29T23:29:30 < Erlkoenig> quac
2013-03-29T23:29:31 < Erlkoenig> k
2013-03-29T23:29:54 < Tectu> danke <3
2013-03-29T23:32:07 < Erlkoenig> auf reserve behalten
2013-03-29T23:34:09 < Tectu> werde!
2013-03-29T23:34:10 < Tectu> wie gehts dir?
2013-03-29T23:34:24 < Erlkoenig> hmjoa läuft so
2013-03-29T23:34:40 < Erlkoenig> grad irgendwie zu faul zum programmieren obwohl ich was fertig kriegen müsste
2013-03-29T23:36:28 < Tectu> lol, das kenn ich
2013-03-29T23:39:07 <+Steffanx> Ich habe keine Ausrufezeichen fur dich Tectu
2013-03-29T23:39:23 <+Steffanx> ( i dont do umlaut and crap )
2013-03-29T23:39:46 <+Steffanx> i don't know if it's keine, kein or keinen is either
2013-03-29T23:39:51 < Erlkoenig> keine is correct :>
2013-03-29T23:40:41 < Erlkoenig> 电 脑
2013-03-29T23:40:44 < Tectu> good job, Steffanx !
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2013-03-30T00:20:53 < Posterdati> hi
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2013-03-30T00:21:16 <+Steffanx> lo
2013-03-30T00:22:03 < Posterdati> please help, I developed a board based on OLIMEX STM32-H107, I used a 25 MHz quartz/20 pF and 27 pF caps, but it won't oscillate, I see the cpu pulse on OSC_OUT and stop, any hints? Tx
2013-03-30T00:22:35 < Posterdati> a single pulse of about 32.5 V
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2013-03-30T00:28:01 < gxti> 32.5V?
2013-03-30T00:30:47 < Erlkoenig> sounds like 1x probe used at a scope configured for 10x :P
2013-03-30T00:30:56 < Posterdati> 3.25V
2013-03-30T00:31:49 < Posterdati> 2.25V maximum
2013-03-30T00:34:02 < Erlkoenig> no "response" from the quartz? sure it is soldered correctly?
2013-03-30T00:35:01 < Posterdati> yes it is
2013-03-30T00:35:32 < Posterdati> www.ecsxtal.com/store/pdf/partnumber4.pdf
2013-03-30T00:36:55 < Posterdati> sorry on OSC_IN I've got the pulse, OSC_OUT is dead
2013-03-30T00:39:41 < qyx_> dont you have some fancy unoptimal layout?
2013-03-30T00:41:35 < Posterdati> no is quite compact with crystal and caps very close to mcu
2013-03-30T00:50:04 < Posterdati> are quartz optimized for 3.3V swing?
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2013-03-30T01:05:30 < pelrun> hmm
2013-03-30T01:05:33 < pelrun> it's 9am
2013-03-30T01:05:38 < pelrun> I should probably go home and sleep
2013-03-30T01:06:00 < qyx_> 9am? where?
2013-03-30T01:06:12 < pelrun> australia
2013-03-30T01:06:25 <+Steffanx> Go home pelrun lol?
2013-03-30T01:06:26 < qyx_> ah
2013-03-30T01:06:33 <+Steffanx> Still at work?
2013-03-30T01:06:41 < pelrun> hackerspace
2013-03-30T01:06:55 <+Steffanx> yay
2013-03-30T01:07:02 < pelrun> although I have done this at work as well
2013-03-30T01:07:29 < inca> what hackerspace? we need those over here in the states
2013-03-30T01:07:43 < pelrun> hackerspace brisbane
2013-03-30T01:07:47 < pelrun> hsbne.org
2013-03-30T01:07:50 <+Steffanx> in aussieland they have 'clubs' fot EVERYTHING
2013-03-30T01:07:59 < inca> Erlkoenig, thanks!
2013-03-30T01:08:01 <+Steffanx> Ask baird .. even a rpi group
2013-03-30T01:08:07 < pelrun> weeeeell
2013-03-30T01:08:19 < baird> We had clubs before they were cool.
2013-03-30T01:08:22 < Erlkoenig> inca: yey
2013-03-30T01:08:23 < pelrun> there's a lot more of these in the states and europe than down here
2013-03-30T01:08:31 < pelrun> although we've got a HOOOOGE one
2013-03-30T01:08:38 <+Steffanx> Not as big as that one pelrun
2013-03-30T01:08:44 <+Steffanx> and the ones here in dutchland are pretty DEAD
2013-03-30T01:09:16 < inca> it seems to run here
2013-03-30T01:09:30 < inca> 1.8.7 Darwin
2013-03-30T01:10:03 < baird> Hackerspaces have the archilles heel of being a social-media marketing thing. When their favourite SoCiAl MeDiUm falls out of favour, so does it.
2013-03-30T01:10:15 < pelrun> har
2013-03-30T01:10:23 < pelrun> we use google groups
2013-03-30T01:10:47 < pelrun> so yeah, next year when google shuts that down we'll be fucked
2013-03-30T01:11:12 < inca> heh… github!
2013-03-30T01:12:07 < baird> github will get the Old People tag within a year or two...
2013-03-30T01:12:22 <+Steffanx> who knows
2013-03-30T01:12:28 < inca> pelrun, hsbne's dns entries are bit b0rked http://www.hsbne.org./projects/ltsb
2013-03-30T01:12:36 < inca> on the webpage
2013-03-30T01:13:03 < inca> otherwise, looks pretty cool
2013-03-30T01:13:07 < pelrun> that website is decrepit and soon to be discarded anyway
2013-03-30T01:13:13 < inca> word
2013-03-30T01:13:15 < pelrun> the new one is... on github XD
2013-03-30T01:13:29 < pelrun> and that link worked for me
2013-03-30T01:13:34 <+Steffanx> for me too
2013-03-30T01:13:59 < inca> it works, but it has an extra .++
2013-03-30T01:13:59 < baird> hsbne looks like the kind of place I used to break into and steal shit from..
2013-03-30T01:14:19 < pelrun> that dot is actually legal, just very rarely seen
2013-03-30T01:14:36 < inca> it lacks aesthetic appeal
2013-03-30T01:14:42 <+Steffanx> lol inca
2013-03-30T01:14:50 <+Steffanx> You are not allowed to care about things like that in here
2013-03-30T01:14:54 < inca> haha
2013-03-30T01:15:08 < pelrun> anyway, the guy who wrote that particular page is a massive dickhead and I hate his guts
2013-03-30T01:15:15 < inca> shhhh
2013-03-30T01:15:21 < inca> this is the place where the memories live
2013-03-30T01:15:23 <+Steffanx> ( not as you are not allowed to care about small images that are jpg, with @#$% compression, that should be png
2013-03-30T01:15:28 <+Steffanx> *just as
2013-03-30T01:15:32 < inca> heh
2013-03-30T01:15:42 <+Steffanx> The new stm website has that
2013-03-30T01:15:48 < pelrun> oh god
2013-03-30T01:15:54 < pelrun> don't talk to me about the new stm website
2013-03-30T01:15:58 < pelrun> *shudder*
2013-03-30T01:16:00 < inca> did you click the thumbs down feedback icon?
2013-03-30T01:16:20 < inca> it's like priming your feedback
2013-03-30T01:16:49 <+Steffanx> Don't you like the new weird urls pelrun ?
2013-03-30T01:17:08 < inca> here's a cup of painfully cold water, hold it for 30 seconds then tell me how much you hate this picture of <insert neutral subject>
2013-03-30T01:17:26 < pelrun> I'm amazed they made it even harder to actually find the example code that goes with the application notes
2013-03-30T01:17:37 < pelrun> it was pretty much impossible to find before
2013-03-30T01:17:48 < inca> I totally dig the 3 configuration management numbers for every PDF
2013-03-30T01:18:24 < pelrun> truly, truly woeful
2013-03-30T01:18:39 < inca> the download link sn, the cm sn, and then the human readable serialized meaningless filename (LINK-004)
2013-03-30T01:19:07 < inca> so for hacker spaces, we need like a red phone
2013-03-30T01:19:18 < inca> dedicate ham channels
2013-03-30T01:19:31 < inca> multicast something
2013-03-30T01:20:02 < inca> network them all up or something
2013-03-30T01:20:37 < Laurenceb_> www.google.co.uk/patents/US8322735
2013-03-30T01:20:39 < Laurenceb_> i lolled
2013-03-30T01:21:22 <+Steffanx> I CANT CARE LESS ABOUT PATENTS Laurenceb_
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2013-03-30T01:25:01 < emeb> Patents. meh.
2013-03-30T01:25:37 <+Steffanx> hmpf why ST makes no < 64 pins ucs WITH sdio?
2013-03-30T01:25:41 <+Steffanx> i dont want to spi it
2013-03-30T01:25:47 <+Steffanx> *use SPI
2013-03-30T01:27:28 < emeb> so just get a 64pin part?
2013-03-30T01:27:38 <+Steffanx> Yeah, have no choice
2013-03-30T01:27:56 < emeb> It's not that much bigger than a 48pin.
2013-03-30T01:28:18 <+Steffanx> Try but that's like 100 times more pins than i need
2013-03-30T01:28:20 < inca> SPI is not too bad
2013-03-30T01:28:36 < inca> pelrun, what are you working on at the hackerspace?
2013-03-30T01:28:36 < qyx_> hm, if i do IQ upmixing in software, do i have to pass baseband modulated data through lowpass filter prior to upmixing?
2013-03-30T01:28:41 < emeb> Steffanx needs 1/64th of a pin.
2013-03-30T01:28:54 <+Steffanx> emeb, you know what i mean
2013-03-30T01:28:58 < emeb> ;)
2013-03-30T01:29:02 < inca> use a PIC?
2013-03-30T01:29:10 <+Steffanx> NEVER
2013-03-30T01:29:14 < inca> hahahaha
2013-03-30T01:29:18 < emeb> qyx_: huh?
2013-03-30T01:29:40 < emeb> qyx_: if your I/Q data is band limited you don't need to filter it.
2013-03-30T01:29:45 < inca> why the unfettering dedication to masochistic STM?
2013-03-30T01:29:51 < emeb> but if you change sample rates you do need to interpolate to the new rate.
2013-03-30T01:29:58 < emeb> otherwise you'll get images.
2013-03-30T01:30:14 < pelrun> inca: tiny board with a bt module, dual h-bridge and lipo management stuff
2013-03-30T01:30:26 < pelrun> for robots and shit
2013-03-30T01:30:32 < inca> qyx_, are you oversampling?
2013-03-30T01:31:23 < inca> pelrun, ah… robots are taking over!
2013-03-30T01:31:26 < qyx_> http://i.imgur.com/I95HzCm.png
2013-03-30T01:31:28 < qyx_> i get this
2013-03-30T01:31:48 < qyx_> emeb: my iq is just psk modulated data
2013-03-30T01:31:48 < emeb> qyx_: looks like you're getting images.
2013-03-30T01:32:16 < emeb> qyx_: no pulse shaping?
2013-03-30T01:32:20 < qyx_> i change phase every 256 samples at 192k
2013-03-30T01:32:31 < emeb> right, no pulse shaping.
2013-03-30T01:32:33 < qyx_> so under 1kHz bw
2013-03-30T01:32:34 < emeb> You'll want that.
2013-03-30T01:32:45 < qyx_> so what should i do?
2013-03-30T01:33:12 < pelrun> I hear the infinite harmonics of a square wave
2013-03-30T01:33:15 < qyx_> should i change that phase slower?
2013-03-30T01:33:25 < qyx_> ok, i got it
2013-03-30T01:33:30 < emeb> You need to create a raised cosine (or root raised cosine) pulse shaping filter to smooth the transitions from one baud to the next.
2013-03-30T01:33:47 < ds2> emeb: Looks like I am not doing the groupbuy
2013-03-30T01:33:53 < qyx_> yep, thanks
2013-03-30T01:33:59 < emeb> qyx_: All those sidebands are the result of the sharp edges
2013-03-30T01:34:07 < emeb> get rid of the edges, things get purty.
2013-03-30T01:34:14 < emeb> ds2: :(
2013-03-30T01:34:36 < ds2> emeb: they insist on me creating a paypal account. I don't do that. so... that's the end of that
2013-03-30T01:34:37 < emeb> ds2: why not? Don't need the parts / don't have time to fool around with it?
2013-03-30T01:34:54 < emeb> ds2: ah. The paypal protection racket.
2013-03-30T01:35:09 < ds2> emeb: I have lost enough money to paypal "fees"
2013-03-30T01:35:13 < dongs> i made a resistor component/pattern in altium yesterday
2013-03-30T01:35:14 < inca> emeb: bitcoin!
2013-03-30T01:35:23 < emeb> Yeah - If I didn't need paypal for transfers with other folks I'd not use it either.
2013-03-30T01:35:25 < dongs> paypal account what
2013-03-30T01:35:27 <+Steffanx> *buttcoin
2013-03-30T01:35:38 < inca> Steffanx: it works =P
2013-03-30T01:35:44 < emeb> when I first started with paypal about 7 years ago the terms were better.
2013-03-30T01:35:46 < dongs> what are you buying wiht paypal
2013-03-30T01:35:50 < pelrun> I made a qfn-16 model in wings3d tonight
2013-03-30T01:35:53 < pelrun> it hurt
2013-03-30T01:35:56 < inca> speaking of butts… how about that Bus Pirate?
2013-03-30T01:35:59 < dongs> pelrun: lol
2013-03-30T01:36:06 < emeb> dongs: that Si570 group buy needs a paypal acct.
2013-03-30T01:36:11 < dongs> emeb: oh.
2013-03-30T01:36:14 < emeb> and ds2 is opposed to paypal.
2013-03-30T01:36:22 < dongs> emeb: if they'd just ask me, I could fund their entire run
2013-03-30T01:36:42 < ds2> emeb: I used to do a paypal account but it costed me money
2013-03-30T01:36:53 < inca> emeb: that is a cool looking little device.
2013-03-30T01:36:53 < ds2> so unless they willing to do a plain invoice/one off thing, I am out.
2013-03-30T01:37:09 < emeb> dongs: yeah - the guy running that group buy is probably going to clear about $500+ for his efforts.
2013-03-30T01:37:21 < pelrun> paypal? more like *INSULT DELETED*
2013-03-30T01:37:24 < emeb> dunno if that's a good deal for him or not.
2013-03-30T01:37:38 < dongs> well unless he runs lunix and his time is worthles, yeah
2013-03-30T01:37:44 < emeb> inca: the Si570? Yeah - it could be handy.
2013-03-30T01:38:06 < inca> SDR, ftw
2013-03-30T01:38:39 < emeb> inca: it's also handy for more traditional radio applications - a highly tuneable LO for a diode ring mixer.
2013-03-30T01:39:25 < inca> 10^7 to 1.4*10^9 is pretty good range
2013-03-30T01:40:28 < inca> a few of those with some well-tuned transmission lines and you might have a pretty intense generic platform
2013-03-30T01:41:22 < inca> $22?
2013-03-30T01:42:06 < inca> I thought it was too good to be cheap
2013-03-30T01:45:15 < Laurenceb_> www.google.co.uk/patents/US3881463
2013-03-30T01:45:18 < Laurenceb_> healthy
2013-03-30T01:48:03 <+Steffanx> Perhaps .. just perhaps when you are very bored you should go to bed/sleep mr Laurenceb_
2013-03-30T01:51:27 < dongs> i dont see hitler on co-author list
2013-03-30T01:54:37 < pelrun> zzzzz
2013-03-30T01:55:17 <+Steffanx> gn
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2013-03-30T02:02:56 < emeb> inca: hence the group buy.
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2013-03-30T02:48:05 < inca> emeb, what price does that bring it down to?
2013-03-30T02:54:29 < inca> hmm…  instant contiki expands to 7 gigs
2013-03-30T02:56:35 < emeb> inca: $14 for the group buy - see here: https://www.tindie.com/shops/TAUTIC/si570-xo-programmable-oscillator/
2013-03-30T02:57:11 < inca> what is the cost driver for the part?
2013-03-30T02:59:37 < emeb> you mean why is it so expensive?
2013-03-30T02:59:53 < emeb> SiLabs is a strange outfit - a lot of their stuff is customizable.
2013-03-30T03:00:18 < emeb> you'll notice that the Si570 comes in many sub-flavors, so almost every order is custom.
2013-03-30T03:00:23 < inca> right, I wonder about scalability into the future
2013-03-30T03:00:28 < inca> right
2013-03-30T03:00:43 < inca> if enough volume will put it into consumer goods land
2013-03-30T03:01:08 < emeb> Well, I'd imagine that if they got enough orders for a particular configuration that they'd start grinding them out at a lower price-point.
2013-03-30T03:01:12 < ds2> aircraft band is still AM, isn't it?
2013-03-30T03:01:16 < emeb> ds2: yes
2013-03-30T03:01:28  * emeb is doing a lot of aircraft band stuff lately.
2013-03-30T03:01:42 < ds2> Oohh... I can use an AM radio as IF for the Si570
2013-03-30T03:02:19 < emeb> ds2: depends. A lot of the parts in a simple AM radio won't go much higher than 1.5MHz.
2013-03-30T03:02:32 < ds2> for IF only
2013-03-30T03:02:52 < emeb> Oh - mix down to AM band and go from there...
2013-03-30T03:03:05 < ds2> Si570 to tun it to about 1MHz above the desire signal, run that as the LO, slap a LNA on the other port, then couple the IF to the AM radio
2013-03-30T03:03:07 < ds2> yes!
2013-03-30T03:03:07 < emeb> I've seen that done.
2013-03-30T03:03:21 < ds2> <-- clueless about digital decoding
2013-03-30T03:03:35 < emeb> decoding what?
2013-03-30T03:03:40 < ds2> I suppose I can do a 1N34 + opamp as the IF stage ;)
2013-03-30T03:03:47 < ds2> any audio signal
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2013-03-30T03:13:00 < inca> any cool ASICs in SDR land?
2013-03-30T03:17:56 < qyx_> that transceiver on rfm22b should be sdr asic
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2013-03-30T03:24:30 < inca> that looks cool… would be nice to do 315/433 ASK/FSK
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2013-03-30T03:44:32 < inca> emeb: stability on the Si570 is not the greatest
2013-03-30T03:45:11 < emeb> inca: don't recall what it is.
2013-03-30T03:45:53 < emeb> oh - temp stability +/-100ppm?
2013-03-30T03:46:26 < emeb> guess it depends on which grade you pay for.
2013-03-30T03:46:38 < inca> total stabiliyu
2013-03-30T03:46:47 < inca> p. 6
2013-03-30T03:46:54 < emeb> ya
2013-03-30T03:48:09 < inca> temp controlled it gets down to +-20 ppm
2013-03-30T03:48:22 < inca> but worst case 61.5 ppm
2013-03-30T03:49:16 < inca> afk for a few
2013-03-30T03:49:19 < inca> dinner time!
2013-03-30T03:49:34 < emeb> well, it's not a TCXO
2013-03-30T03:50:03 < ds2> do they make "tuneable" TCXO's with that wide of a bandwidth?
2013-03-30T03:51:42 < emeb> doubt it
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2013-03-30T04:27:54 < qyx_> http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/newsreader/view_thread/325591
2013-03-30T04:27:58 < qyx_> troll level expert :S
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2013-03-30T06:51:27 < qyx_> http://i.imgur.com/zUuhrMc.png
2013-03-30T06:51:37 < qyx_> looks better with raised cosine FIR
2013-03-30T06:56:42 < emeb_mac> still looks kinda odd.
2013-03-30T06:57:04 < emeb_mac> what are those peaks? you not driving random data?
2013-03-30T06:58:37 < qyx_> they are not-quite-random
2013-03-30T06:58:47 < qyx_> random a-z characters
2013-03-30T06:59:47 < qyx_> ok, if i feed it random data the peaks dissapear
2013-03-30T07:04:50 < ds2> what is a raised cosine?
2013-03-30T07:05:05 < ds2> (1+cos(omega*t))?
2013-03-30T07:05:31 < emeb_mac> kinda
2013-03-30T07:06:42 < emeb_mac> basically an idealized pulse shape used for controlling bandwidth in digital communications.
2013-03-30T07:07:36 < ds2> Hmm ok
2013-03-30T07:08:03 < qyx_> hm, one more question
2013-03-30T07:08:10 < emeb_mac> ?
2013-03-30T07:08:23 < qyx_> should i apply that filter to complex data prior to upmixing?
2013-03-30T07:08:27 < qyx_> ar after?
2013-03-30T07:13:36 < ds2> in some ways, doing stuff in the analog domain is so much easier
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2013-03-30T07:15:59 < emeb_mac> qyx_: do it before. the baseband IQ signal going into the modulator should be shaped.
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2013-03-30T07:23:03 < qyx_> problem is that F3 probably wont be fast enough to do filter with more taps
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2013-03-30T07:30:10 < emeb_mac> sounds familiar
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2013-03-30T07:48:18 < ds2> do it in a FPGA
2013-03-30T07:48:24 < ds2> like those microsemi's with a M3 core
2013-03-30T07:52:04 < R2COM> or...redesign the filter
2013-03-30T07:52:39 < R2COM> make it IIR, check how stable it is, and maybe you can get away with smaller processor
2013-03-30T07:53:07 < R2COM> the only thing is, you might end up making sure, that its rounding errors are within bouns for your application
2013-03-30T07:53:15 < R2COM> but thats relatively fast process if you have access to matlab
2013-03-30T07:54:49 < R2COM> s/bouns/bounds
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2013-03-30T08:08:07 < qyx_> ok, it is working now, i see nice qam256 constellation
2013-03-30T08:08:32 < qyx_> except that there are some amplitude errors, it is distorted from center to the edges
2013-03-30T08:11:04 < qyx_> i hope it will work with real world cable also :S
2013-03-30T08:21:55 < emeb_mac> what are you doing for the receive end?
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2013-03-30T08:29:54 < qyx_> nothing yet, but i plan to demodulate it using F1/F3
2013-03-30T08:29:58 < qyx_> well, i hope so
2013-03-30T08:35:28 < emeb_mac> just remember that the demod is always harder.
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2013-03-30T10:10:46 < Posterdati> hi
2013-03-30T10:12:49 < Posterdati> please I've got problem with stm32f107 and 25 MHz quartz, I copied the same circuit as in STM32-H107 olimex board, but BOOT1 = GND and BOOT0 to 1, but oscillator won't work :( any hints? thanks
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2013-03-30T10:23:28 < jpa-> Posterdati: the bootloader always uses internal oscillator
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2013-03-30T10:26:40 < Posterdati> jpa-: so what's at page 61 of rm008?
2013-03-30T10:26:55 < Posterdati> otg isn't working
2013-03-30T10:27:13 < Posterdati> I expected it to work like in the stm32-h107 board, but nothing
2013-03-30T10:32:49 < Posterdati> :(
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2013-03-30T10:38:38 < Posterdati> ok
2013-03-30T10:39:19 < Posterdati> maybe I found the problem, I did not connect OTG Vbus to USB OTG pin 1 (Vbus)
2013-03-30T10:39:29 < Posterdati> is it a +5V power signal?
2013-03-30T10:43:24 < Posterdati> PA9 = Vbus = 5V tolerant?
2013-03-30T10:44:30 < Posterdati> page 56 of rm008
2013-03-30T11:01:25 < Posterdati> jpa-: so bootloader = internal oscillator... that make perfect ses
2013-03-30T11:01:28 < Posterdati> jpa-: so bootloader = internal oscillator... that make perfect sense
2013-03-30T11:14:24 < Posterdati> :(
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2013-03-30T11:31:28 < Robint91> 5.1 vs Stereo
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2013-03-30T12:51:02 <+Steffanx> Tectu ! ( ein Ausrufezeichen für dich ! )
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2013-03-30T14:09:33 < Posterdati> jpa-: works!
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2013-03-30T15:37:33 < Tectu> Steffanx, ! (Bedankt voor het uitroepteken)
2013-03-30T15:37:46 <+Steffanx> Geen dank
2013-03-30T15:37:49 <+Steffanx> Google translate ftw?
2013-03-30T15:38:04 < Tectu> no, dutch gf with dutch parents for over one year ftw
2013-03-30T15:38:33 <+Steffanx> And she learns you dutch? Poor you
2013-03-30T15:38:41 < Tectu> stfu
2013-03-30T15:38:44 < Tectu> I want to
2013-03-30T15:39:04 <+Steffanx> No, really you don't. STAY IN SWITZERLAND
2013-03-30T15:40:03 < Tectu> ohm2013
2013-03-30T15:40:18 <+Steffanx> ohm2014
2013-03-30T15:41:40 <+Steffanx> You're going to that Tectu ?
2013-03-30T15:41:59 < Tectu> Steffanx, '13 probably yes
2013-03-30T15:42:32 <+Steffanx> Why there is not schedule-ish thing?
2013-03-30T15:45:13 <+Steffanx> *no
2013-03-30T15:51:50 < Tectu> Steffanx, I'm to drunk, ask lat0r
2013-03-30T15:55:01 <+Steffanx> Drunk @ 14:54 ?!
2013-03-30T15:55:20 <+Steffanx> alcoholic?
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2013-03-30T15:56:56 < Tectu> no
2013-03-30T15:57:06 < Tectu> not really
2013-03-30T15:57:15 <+Steffanx> Yes, you're in denial
2013-03-30T15:57:46 < Tectu> lol
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2013-03-30T16:10:27 < jpa-> zomg, Tectu not only rapes people, he is also an alcoholic?!?
2013-03-30T16:10:33 < jpa-> someone alert his gf about this
2013-03-30T16:11:47 <+Steffanx> Didn't someone here find a photo of Tectu on picasa? Perhaps we can me a "wanted" picture :P
2013-03-30T16:12:41 < jpa-> yeah, it's you who wants him anyway
2013-03-30T16:13:36 <+Steffanx> jpa-, jpa-, you really dont understand .. we have to locate his gf first. We can locate his gf using Tectu
2013-03-30T16:14:05 < Tectu> Steffanx wants me
2013-03-30T16:14:08 < Tectu> jpa-, help
2013-03-30T16:14:43 < Tectu> Steffanx, I can give you a newer picture, not the 5yr old crap
2013-03-30T16:14:53 <+Steffanx> w00t
2013-03-30T16:16:34 < Tectu> with 5yr old crap I mean the picture of me which someone found here which is 5 years old
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2013-03-30T16:27:07 < Tectu> barthess, deployed: https://twitter.com/ChibiOS_RT
2013-03-30T16:27:12 < Tectu> damn, wrong chan
2013-03-30T16:28:00 <+Steffanx> drunk.
2013-03-30T16:39:20 < jpa-> http://koti.kapsi.fi/jpa/stuff/pix/eink_pcb.png   Steffanx check my pcb for mistakes
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2013-03-30T16:41:24 <+Steffanx> going 0402 ?
2013-03-30T16:41:38 < jpa-> been using 0402 for long
2013-03-30T16:41:54 < jpa-> hmm i guess i could have P3 on the front like everything else
2013-03-30T16:42:56 <+Steffanx> Your screws/bolts/whatever are small enough to be near U6?
2013-03-30T16:43:11 < Tectu> jpa-, how about 'please'?
2013-03-30T16:43:21 < karlp> what are the big inductors for?
2013-03-30T16:43:23 < Tectu> jpa-, move P3
2013-03-30T16:43:23 < Tectu> -..'
2013-03-30T16:43:23 < Tectu> too late
2013-03-30T16:43:43 < jpa-> karlp: for smps.. to generate the +-15V for the eink display
2013-03-30T16:44:01 < jpa-> Steffanx: i think they should be.. let me check
2013-03-30T16:44:15 < Tectu> jpa-, will this be home soldered or are you going to give it to a manufacturer? I know that mine wouldn't have fun with the capacitors next to U2
2013-03-30T16:44:46 < jpa-> Steffanx: yeah, that pad is 6mm diameter, just perfect for 3mm screws :)
2013-03-30T16:45:00 < jpa-> Tectu: i'll get board from seeed but solder at home
2013-03-30T16:45:19 < jpa-> Tectu: the caps at corners of the stm32 actually aren't that difficult
2013-03-30T16:45:25 < Tectu> jpa-, okay
2013-03-30T16:46:00 < gxti> cute but i wouldn't do that either :p
2013-03-30T16:46:09 <+Steffanx> Tectu has is board soldered by someone else?
2013-03-30T16:46:11 <+Steffanx> *his
2013-03-30T16:46:16 <+Steffanx> *boards
2013-03-30T16:46:36 < jpa-> hmm looks like my previous board had them a bit further back.. though that was without solder mask  http://essentialscrap.com/sphere/capacitor_pump.jpg
2013-03-30T16:46:53 < Tectu> :)
2013-03-30T16:46:54 <+Steffanx> like a pro
2013-03-30T16:47:01 < Tectu> Steffanx, when I do 10k pcs, yes
2013-03-30T16:47:02 < Posterdati> jpa-: it works!!!
2013-03-30T16:47:03 < Posterdati> jpa-: (laughing maniacally)
2013-03-30T16:47:12 <+Steffanx> You do 10k pcs Tectu ?
2013-03-30T16:47:13 < jpa-> Posterdati: lol :)
2013-03-30T16:47:39 < Tectu> Steffanx, not myself, no
2013-03-30T16:48:10 <+Steffanx> You design/write code it?
2013-03-30T16:49:16 < Tectu> not 10pcs, no
2013-03-30T16:49:16 < Tectu> 10k*
2013-03-30T16:49:29 < Tectu> I'm not Laurenceb_
2013-03-30T16:49:40 < Tectu> swiss people only do a few single pieces, but damn quality therefore
2013-03-30T16:49:51 < Tectu> we don't do mass production dongs crap
2013-03-30T16:49:52 <+Steffanx> Fail_Academy
2013-03-30T16:56:19 < jpa-> Tectu: doesn't sound like quality if they can't solder my caps!
2013-03-30T16:56:45 < jpa-> but yeah, i moved them so that the solder masks don't touch.. it's not gay if the masks don't touch..
2013-03-30T16:57:43 < Tectu> jpa-, lol
2013-03-30T16:57:54 < Tectu> jpa-, thank you
2013-03-30T17:08:44 <+Steffanx> Now Tectu can sleep very well
2013-03-30T17:12:33 < Robint91> jpa-, what eink display is that?
2013-03-30T17:13:34 < Posterdati> now I'm facing an i2c problem
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2013-03-30T17:27:13 < Tectu> Posterdati, perfect timing: http://chibios.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=chibios:community:guides:i2c_trouble_shooting
2013-03-30T17:27:29 < Tectu> Posterdati, it's not really ChibiOS/RT related, everything in there is STM32 general thing stuff
2013-03-30T17:27:44 < Posterdati> tx
2013-03-30T17:28:17 < Tectu> welcome
2013-03-30T17:33:06 < qyx_> jpa-: you already have that eink?
2013-03-30T17:48:07 < Posterdati> Tectu: palSetPadMode(GPIOB, 8, PAL_MODE_ALTERNATE(4) | PAL_STM32_OTYPE_OPENDRAIN); palSetPadMode(GPIOB, 8, PAL_MODE_ALTERNATE(4) | PAL_STM32_OTYPE_OPENDRAIN);
2013-03-30T17:48:21 < Posterdati> Tectu: what is it?
2013-03-30T17:48:58 < Tectu> Posterdati, that's the only ChibiOS/RT related part. With this line you set the mode of your GPIOs when you're using ChibiOS/RT (an RTOS)
2013-03-30T17:49:26 < Posterdati> but I don't use ChibiOS
2013-03-30T17:49:34 < Tectu> and I don't care
2013-03-30T17:49:54 < Tectu> it just tells you to set your GPIO mode to alternate function and open drain
2013-03-30T17:50:03 < Tectu> you can do that with any RTOS or library or directly in the registers
2013-03-30T17:56:44 < Posterdati> Tectu: those ports are already set to AF OD
2013-03-30T17:58:20 < Tectu> Posterdati, good, then check the other points
2013-03-30T18:00:02 < jpa-> qyx_: not yet, decided to design the board before ordering
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2013-03-30T18:07:22 < jpa-> Robint91: edo60sc4.. 800x600 6"
2013-03-30T18:07:37 < Robint91> jpa-, <3
2013-03-30T18:07:47 < jpa-> *ed060sc4
2013-03-30T18:08:14 < Robint91> jpa-, where do you get these?
2013-03-30T18:08:20 < jpa-> ebay
2013-03-30T18:10:38 <+Steffanx> What do you plan to show on it jpa- ? Or is it just for general hobby bobbying?
2013-03-30T18:11:00 < jpa-> we'll see :)
2013-03-30T18:11:14 <+Steffanx> Hobby bobbying it is
2013-03-30T18:15:50 < Tectu> jpa-, interesting display
2013-03-30T18:16:33 <+Steffanx> Sure you see the same display as we see Tectu?
2013-03-30T18:16:52 < Tectu> nope, not sure
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2013-03-30T19:23:12 < Laurenceb_> people talking about me?!
2013-03-30T19:23:16  * Laurenceb_ scrollsback
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2013-03-30T19:28:49 < peque> Hi there :-)
2013-03-30T19:29:59 < peque> I'm playing with the STM32F3 discovery board and I was wondering if anybody knew of an example on how to use the encoder interface mode in the general purpose timers
2013-03-30T19:30:48 < peque> I'm reading the reference manual and trying to program them, but as I'm not an expert, it takes me some time and I thought perhaps there could be an example already available somewhere :-P
2013-03-30T19:30:54 < peque> thanks in advance for your help!
2013-03-30T19:30:56 < peque> :-)
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2013-03-30T19:53:08 < emeb_mac> you know, I tried the encoder mode of the timer on an f3.
2013-03-30T19:53:20 < emeb_mac> it sort of worked, but had some odd behavior.
2013-03-30T19:53:57 < emeb_mac> frankly, doing it in software based on the systick timer with debounce and edge detect was more reliable.
2013-03-30T19:54:10 < emeb_mac> and more flexible since that works on any pins.
2013-03-30T20:01:18 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2013-03-30T20:01:23 < Laurenceb_> not very encouraging
2013-03-30T20:01:29 < Laurenceb_> noise on your encoder?
2013-03-30T20:02:00 < Laurenceb_> maybe some rc filter or something might have helped?
2013-03-30T20:02:14 < Laurenceb_> actually, isnt there a digital filter mode?
2013-03-30T20:08:26 < gxti> emeb_mac: it didn't look terribly useful to me on paper
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2013-03-30T20:18:07 < jpa-> lol:  http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-e4kzgYNEiBM/T_O20jVvClI/AAAAAAAAKL8/__Dy_DMWKB0/s1600/19C21D78-1448-4EA9-B47F-22FB9079CE59.JPG   that is a circuit connected to mains voltage.. so what does hackaday think of it?  "[Dillon] accomplished everything in a way that actually looks professionally done."
2013-03-30T20:25:52 < emeb_mac> Laurenceb_: Encoder timer mode works - no question.
2013-03-30T20:26:45 < emeb_mac> the noise filter seems to help some.
2013-03-30T20:27:33 < emeb_mac> problem is just the sum of a lot of little annoyances - setup peculiarities, limited i/o options, double counting, etc.
2013-03-30T20:28:29 < emeb_mac> jpa-: new definition of "professionally done"
2013-03-30T20:33:31 < peque> emeb_mac: I need the counter to be incremented without interrupting the software, so I'll be using the encoder mode
2013-03-30T20:33:41 < peque> I'm about to try it right now
2013-03-30T20:33:43 < peque> :-P
2013-03-30T20:34:00 < gxti> it seems fine for motors and sensors and that type of thing where you just want to periodically sample
2013-03-30T20:34:04 < gxti> but not for user input
2013-03-30T20:34:29 < emeb_mac> right
2013-03-30T20:40:02 < gxti> also dang, even i wouldn't use a microcontroller for that project ;p
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2013-03-30T20:40:37 < jpa-> bah i have to grow my board past 5x5 cm
2013-03-30T20:40:50 < jpa-> it won't fit mechanically otherwise
2013-03-30T20:45:05 < peque> seems it works!! :-D
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2013-03-30T21:09:42 < Laurenceb_> ok wtf
2013-03-30T21:09:51 < Laurenceb_> my uni has a thesis limit of 100K words
2013-03-30T21:10:02 < Laurenceb_> my supervisors thesis is ~400K
2013-03-30T21:11:09 < Laurenceb_> LIKE A BOSS
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2013-03-30T21:25:35 < Robint91> Laurenceb_, PhD thesis?
2013-03-30T21:25:46 < Robint91> or masters
2013-03-30T21:26:31 < Posterdati> Tectu: simply it won't go...
2013-03-30T21:26:42 < Tectu> Posterdati, what's the problem?
2013-03-30T21:27:17 < Posterdati> I used the unstick code for free the i2c bus peripherals
2013-03-30T21:27:28 < Tectu> what?
2013-03-30T21:28:05 < Tectu> how about you tell me what's your hardware setup, the software you're using and what's the problem like you'd say it to a person who never read a word of you before?
2013-03-30T21:28:49 < Posterdati> stm32f107, 1.5 kOhm pullups, 100 kHz
2013-03-30T21:29:11 < Posterdati> PORTB6 = PORTB7 = AF OD
2013-03-30T21:30:14 < Posterdati> stm32f107 <--> l3gd20 <--> lsm303dlhc
2013-03-30T21:30:44 < Tectu> what does   <-->  mean here? I guess they are just on the same bus, right?
2013-03-30T21:30:57 < Posterdati> my code should configure each peripherals and then read their output data
2013-03-30T21:31:08 < Posterdati> yes they're tied to the same lines
2013-03-30T21:31:28 < Tectu> did you check if you get proper signals from your MCU with a scope?
2013-03-30T21:31:29 < Posterdati> SCL_STM32 = SCL_L3GD20 = SCL_LSM303DLHC
2013-03-30T21:32:09 < Posterdati> yes, it is perfect, squared with no noise
2013-03-30T21:32:25 < Posterdati> SDA_STM32 = SDA_L3GD20 = SDA_LSM303DLHC
2013-03-30T21:32:50 < Tectu> Posterdati, you should not get squares
2013-03-30T21:32:56 < Posterdati> no cs or irq lines connected
2013-03-30T21:32:56 < Tectu> Posterdati, when you get square, you're not in open drain mode
2013-03-30T21:33:08 < Posterdati> why not?
2013-03-30T21:33:21 < Posterdati> capacitance is very small
2013-03-30T21:33:31 < Tectu> Posterdati, http://dsscircuits.com/articles/effects-of-varying-i2c-pull-up-resistors.html
2013-03-30T21:33:38 < Tectu> Posterdati, square is not good.
2013-03-30T21:33:55 < Tectu> you need a round edge, otherwise you're in push-pull mode
2013-03-30T21:34:15 < Robint91> -_-
2013-03-30T21:34:20 < Robint91> round is that good also
2013-03-30T21:34:22 < Robint91> *isn't
2013-03-30T21:34:30 < Tectu> is is
2013-03-30T21:34:32 < Tectu> it is
2013-03-30T21:34:33 < Tectu> read the post.
2013-03-30T21:34:48 < Tectu> I had I²C issues a week ago and I get very round signals and it works perfectly like that
2013-03-30T21:34:53 < Tectu> I can prove by screenshotting, if needed
2013-03-30T21:36:20 < Robint91> Tectu, It works with large rise times
2013-03-30T21:36:43 < Posterdati> Robint91: in fact
2013-03-30T21:36:51 < Tectu> Robint91, I know, I'm trying to tell that Posterdati
2013-03-30T21:36:57 < Tectu> :)
2013-03-30T21:37:05 < Robint91> Tectu, but for 400khz I want to have faster risetimes
2013-03-30T21:37:21 < Robint91> and the internal pull ups aren't sufficent
2013-03-30T21:37:34 < Tectu> you don't need faster rising times...
2013-03-30T21:37:47 < Tectu> Robint91, 400kHz -> external pullups 4k7
2013-03-30T21:38:03 < Robint91> Tectu, yeah
2013-03-30T21:38:22 < Robint91> Tectu, that is good if you stay onboard
2013-03-30T21:39:36 < Tectu> Robint91, I²C is not meant for large transmission lines anyways...
2013-03-30T21:39:44 < Tectu> s/large/long
2013-03-30T21:40:03 < gxti> Tectu are you still drunk
2013-03-30T21:40:31 < Tectu> gxti, nope
2013-03-30T21:40:59 < Tectu> gxti, originally, I²C wasn't meant for data transmitions as well. It was just meant for electronic circuits to transmit IDs etc, not actual data.
2013-03-30T21:41:37 < Robint91> Tectu,  wasn't that one wire?
2013-03-30T21:41:52 < Posterdati> Tectu: port is not in push pull mode
2013-03-30T21:42:09 < gxti> also there's nothing wrong with mostly-square i2c waveforms, that's a good thing
2013-03-30T21:42:22 < gxti> if it was in push-pull mode you'd notice because stuff wouldn't ACK
2013-03-30T21:42:32 < Posterdati> in fact
2013-03-30T21:42:37 < Tectu> gxti, sure its a good thing, but in 99% of the cases, when somebody says he has square signals, he's in push-pull mode
2013-03-30T21:42:39 < Posterdati> at 100 kHz the bus start working
2013-03-30T21:42:47 < Tectu> gxti, his stuff doesn't ack?
2013-03-30T21:42:54 < Tectu> gxti, I thought he doesn't get anything at all?
2013-03-30T21:43:02 < gxti> i have not been following along Tectu
2013-03-30T21:43:02 < Tectu> Posterdati, then you have to high pull ups
2013-03-30T21:43:07 < Tectu> gxti, me either :P
2013-03-30T21:43:20 < Posterdati> Tectu: I'd like to run at 400 kHz
2013-03-30T21:43:59 < Posterdati> Tectu: if I use 400 kHz sometimes starts, but one peripherals after a bunch of bytes won't acknowledge anymore
2013-03-30T21:44:06 < Tectu> Posterdati, yes, and I'd like to have a chocolate cake right now
2013-03-30T21:44:17 < Posterdati> ?
2013-03-30T21:44:20 < Tectu> Posterdati, are you sure that both your slaves support 400kHz mode?
2013-03-30T21:44:32 < Posterdati> they are 1 MHz each
2013-03-30T21:44:43 < Tectu> Posterdati, how long are your traces / wires ?
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2013-03-30T21:45:03 < Posterdati> chips are very close to MCU
2013-03-30T21:45:08 < Tectu> Posterdati, custom board?
2013-03-30T21:45:13 < Posterdati> yes
2013-03-30T21:45:18 < Posterdati> say 11 cm and less
2013-03-30T21:45:21 < Posterdati> sorry
2013-03-30T21:45:25 < Posterdati> say 1 cm or less
2013-03-30T21:45:25 < Tectu> very close? wtf?
2013-03-30T21:45:27 < Tectu> aah.
2013-03-30T21:45:44 < Tectu> Posterdati, can you screenshot your scope?
2013-03-30T21:45:47 < qyx_> i also wtf-ed while reading 11cm
2013-03-30T21:46:03 < Tectu> Posterdati, when the master transmitted, do you still see the clock for the slaves to send back? do the salves send anything back at all? do you get ACKs?
2013-03-30T21:46:07 < Posterdati> Tectu: not now...
2013-03-30T21:46:49 < Posterdati> Tectu: sometimes the bus works ok, sometimes after a reset it won't reach the start condition
2013-03-30T21:47:12 < Tectu> Posterdati, does the MCU keep working or does everything crash? memory issues?
2013-03-30T21:47:24 < Posterdati> no
2013-03-30T21:47:50 < Tectu> what no?
2013-03-30T21:48:00 < Posterdati> I've got a custom RTOS on it and the task who reads the bus continues to do its job returning timeout on reading data from i2c
2013-03-30T21:48:52 < Posterdati> I didn't use irq to read or send data over the i2c
2013-03-30T21:49:59 < Tectu> what timeout do you use?
2013-03-30T21:50:11 < Tectu> are you sure the timeout is enough for the slave?
2013-03-30T21:50:36 < Posterdati> yes, I used a very long timeout > 1s
2013-03-30T21:50:51 < Posterdati> lsm303dhlc = 400 kHz max
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2013-03-30T21:54:07 < Tectu> Posterdati, does it work stable with 100kHz or does it stop after a while as well?
2013-03-30T21:54:56 < Laurenceb_> Robint91: PhD
2013-03-30T21:55:00 < Posterdati> at 100 kHz is working ok, I've got it running from 2 hours with no problems
2013-03-30T21:55:14 < Laurenceb_> currently writing it.... funtimes
2013-03-30T21:55:36 < Robint91> Laurenceb_, starting next year on a PhD
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2013-03-30T21:56:26 < Tectu> Posterdati, can you please show me your layout? I guess the only reason this doesn't work is because your layout can not handle 400k :D
2013-03-30T21:57:53 < Posterdati> :) I've got no eagle layout here on thic PC, I could provide it next week :)
2013-03-30T21:58:03 < Posterdati> anyway
2013-03-30T21:58:19 < Posterdati> could it be a software issue?
2013-03-30T21:59:14 < Posterdati> scl and sdl lines are clean from noise
2013-03-30T21:59:18 < Posterdati> a
2013-03-30T21:59:19 < Posterdati> ah
2013-03-30T21:59:29 < peque> anybody knows any open source IDE for STM32 ARM developing?
2013-03-30T21:59:34 < Posterdati> on 3.3V i2c bus I've got a pca9306 too
2013-03-30T22:00:13 < Tectu> o.O
2013-03-30T22:00:27 < Tectu> peque, Eclipse / Geany
2013-03-30T22:00:42 < Posterdati> I need to connect to 5V i2c peripherals like arduino
2013-03-30T22:01:24 < peque> Tectu: you know about any Eclipse plugin? I usually use Geany for coding, but don't think it can be easily integrated with ARM GDB and all that stuff...
2013-03-30T22:01:26 < Posterdati> Tectu: anyway the stm32f10x is a good choice, very powerful, cheap and reliable
2013-03-30T22:01:32 < Posterdati> but the i2c...
2013-03-30T22:02:04 < Tectu> peque, I don't know, I don't use any IDE anymore
2013-03-30T22:02:52 < peque> Tectu: ok, was asking if someone knew about any IDE in particular
2013-03-30T22:03:14 < Posterdati> peddie: emacs, Codesourcery Tool Chain in lite edition and st cmsis + library
2013-03-30T22:03:23 < peque> a friend is joining a project and is used to IDE developing
2013-03-30T22:03:26 < Posterdati> peddie: sorry
2013-03-30T22:03:33 < Posterdati> peque: : emacs, Codesourcery Tool Chain in lite edition and st cmsis + library
2013-03-30T22:03:48 < Posterdati> poor friend
2013-03-30T22:03:52 < peque> xD
2013-03-30T22:04:04 < Posterdati> it won't be a friend anymore
2013-03-30T22:04:29 < Tectu> peque, one of our users did STM32 development (and debuggin!) in QtCreator. He did make the QtCreator people make a few changes to make this possible
2013-03-30T22:04:37 < Laurenceb_> yeah f10x i2c is a pita
2013-03-30T22:04:50 < Laurenceb_> start and stop bits getting jammed :-S
2013-03-30T22:04:56 < Posterdati> Laurenceb_: you know my story, don't you recall?
2013-03-30T22:05:04 < Laurenceb_> no
2013-03-30T22:05:20 < Posterdati> Laurenceb_: it was you, the one who helped me at last
2013-03-30T22:05:37 < Laurenceb_> oh lol
2013-03-30T22:05:48 < Laurenceb_> my head is full of thesis stuff :P
2013-03-30T22:05:56 < Posterdati> Laurenceb_: anyway I'm going to suffer a little bit more... I want to use OTG
2013-03-30T22:06:08 < Posterdati> yes gentlemens: OTG!
2013-03-30T22:06:15 < Laurenceb_> i wrote interrupt driven code for the F103 ages ago if it helps..
2013-03-30T22:06:17 < Laurenceb_> im not 100% sure its bug free tho
2013-03-30T22:06:23 < Laurenceb_> USB?
2013-03-30T22:06:27 < Posterdati> yes
2013-03-30T22:06:46 < Laurenceb_> so use chibios ?
2013-03-30T22:07:00 < Posterdati> I nailed an otg port (minu usb) to the stm32 like the olimex stm32-h107
2013-03-30T22:07:15 < Posterdati> no I've got my own rtos
2013-03-30T22:07:38 < Posterdati> is there a free sdk for usb on ST site? I didn't find any, only application note
2013-03-30T22:08:06 < Laurenceb_> ok.. you're hardcore :P
2013-03-30T22:08:15 < TheSeven> Posterdati: which USB core? the synopsys thing that's found in the 2xx/4xx series as well?
2013-03-30T22:08:17 < Laurenceb_> theres lots of example code
2013-03-30T22:08:20 < Posterdati> and my rtos worked :)
2013-03-30T22:08:23 < Laurenceb_> ot at least there used to be
2013-03-30T22:08:42 < qyx_> Posterdati: that chip is perfectly stable even at i2c freq>1MHz with 4.7k pullups
2013-03-30T22:08:52 < Posterdati> TheSeven: you mean the chip I'm using?
2013-03-30T22:08:52 < qyx_> i mean lsm303
2013-03-30T22:09:22 < qyx_> tried that some time ago with at91sam7s
2013-03-30T22:09:32 < Posterdati> qyx_: datasheet reports 400 kHz max for SCL
2013-03-30T22:09:34 < Laurenceb_> lsm303 can use >1mhz i2c?
2013-03-30T22:09:46 < Laurenceb_> interesting
2013-03-30T22:09:50 < qyx_> trial&error
2013-03-30T22:09:56 < qyx_> l3g4200 even more
2013-03-30T22:10:01 < qyx_> and lis331 also
2013-03-30T22:10:09 < Posterdati> good to know
2013-03-30T22:10:11 < TheSeven> many devices work at much higher than specified i2c freqs if you have good pullups
2013-03-30T22:10:40 < TheSeven> Posterdati: I think the "small" stm32s have a different USB core than the 2xx/4xx ones. but I think that one wasn't even OTG
2013-03-30T22:10:42 < Posterdati> TheSeven: better not mess with specifications
2013-03-30T22:10:44  * Laurenceb_ is running 400KHz i2c over ~4m of cable
2013-03-30T22:10:57 < Laurenceb_> not good practice but its works :P
2013-03-30T22:11:33 < qyx_> so the problem may be long traces, large capacitance, crosstalk with other traces, small pullups, atc.
2013-03-30T22:11:38 < TheSeven> anyway, if you have questions about or problems with the synopsys core used in the 2xx/4xx series, feel free to ask me
2013-03-30T22:11:46 < Posterdati> TheSeven: it's OTG, the funny thing that I can program it simply with dfu utils and no more
2013-03-30T22:11:47 < Laurenceb_> tie clip microphone cable too - very high capacitance
2013-03-30T22:12:09 < TheSeven> at least for device mode - I haven't played with host mode yet
2013-03-30T22:12:15 < Posterdati> TheSeven: tx
2013-03-30T22:12:51 < TheSeven> and yes, you can even upload code to ram and execute it via DFU :)
2013-03-30T22:13:05 < Posterdati> TheSeven: yes, definitely useful
2013-03-30T22:13:32 < Posterdati> TheSeven: not like the old st arm :)
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2013-03-30T22:14:31  * TheSeven only knows the stm32f217/407
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2013-03-30T22:18:07 < Posterdati> TheSeven: http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/mmc/FM141/SC1714/LN1171
2013-03-30T22:19:09 < TheSeven> anyway, I've written my own OS-independent USB device implementation, completely IRQ driven and fairly flexible
2013-03-30T22:19:29 < TheSeven> and much smaller than ST's reference code (which can do OTG though)
2013-03-30T22:19:47 < Posterdati> where is the st otg code?
2013-03-30T22:20:06 < Posterdati> is in the library?
2013-03-30T22:20:53 < TheSeven> it's in a separate library IIRC
2013-03-30T22:21:21 < Posterdati> not in the standard peripherals library?
2013-03-30T22:21:24 < TheSeven> but I didn't really ever use the CM reference code except for those register definition headers
2013-03-30T22:21:41 < BJfreeman> Posterdati if you got to the ST page for the chip, then design resources you will find a library
2013-03-30T22:22:22 < BJfreeman> nvm
2013-03-30T22:23:57 < TheSeven> http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/tools/PF257882
2013-03-30T22:25:28 < Posterdati> http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/productcatalog/app?page=partNumberSearchPage&levelid=SS1031&parentid=1743&resourcetype=SW
2013-03-30T22:29:59 < Posterdati> TheSeven: TX
2013-03-30T22:33:26 < jpa-> TheSeven: seems that everyone is writing their own usb code nowadays :P
2013-03-30T22:34:26 < TheSeven> well tbh that USB core is fairly straightforward once you get a general idea of how things work
2013-03-30T22:35:07 < jpa-> somewhat, but for more complex drivers it is still a lot of work
2013-03-30T22:35:42 < TheSeven> I don't dare to deal with host/otg mode yet
2013-03-30T22:36:12 < TheSeven> that whole USB mess on the raspberry pi (which uses the same OTG core from what it seems) has scared me away from that
2013-03-30T22:37:03 < TheSeven> but device mode is really easy if you have a basic understanding of USB
2013-03-30T22:37:27 < jpa-> the nuttx driver still managed to include a whole lot of bugs :P
2013-03-30T22:38:04 < TheSeven> http://pastie.org/7187208
2013-03-30T22:38:24 < TheSeven> that's certainly a manageable amount of code
2013-03-30T22:38:40 < jpa-> zyp's code is cleaner :P
2013-03-30T22:39:03 < TheSeven> heh, cleaner in terms of what?
2013-03-30T22:39:36 < jpa-> shorter :D
2013-03-30T22:40:04 < TheSeven> sure, you could cut away all the comments etc. and strip out all of the flexibility
2013-03-30T22:40:15 < jpa-> that's not really the case
2013-03-30T22:40:34 < BJfreeman> wait till you make it OTG or Host switchable
2013-03-30T22:40:50 < TheSeven> but I'm fairly sure that you can't squeeze much more out of that without losing flexibility
2013-03-30T22:40:58 < TheSeven> where is the other code that you're referring to?
2013-03-30T22:41:08 < TheSeven> BJfreeman: <TheSeven> I don't dare to deal with host/otg mode yet
2013-03-30T22:41:08 < TheSeven> <TheSeven> that whole USB mess on the raspberry pi (which uses the same OTG core from what it seems) has scared me away from that
2013-03-30T22:41:38 < jpa-> but yeah, the nuttx usb driver for F4 is about 1500 lines
2013-03-30T22:42:00 < BJfreeman> The A13 linux has the code
2013-03-30T22:42:24 < TheSeven> er, wait, does this mean that the allwinner A10 uses the same USB core as well?
2013-03-30T22:42:57 < jpa-> http://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usb/dwc_otg.h   zyp's         https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/nuttx/blob/public/nuttx/arch/arm/src/stm32/stm32_otgfsdev.c   nuttx      it is interesting to see so many ways to code the same thing :P
2013-03-30T22:43:06 < BJfreeman> A13 lacks the HDMI and hardrive interface
2013-03-30T22:43:24 < jpa-> (wow, remembered wrong.. 5000 lines for nuttx driver :P
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2013-03-30T22:44:21 < BJfreeman> but the switch is implemented on the Olimex A13
2013-03-30T22:44:41 < TheSeven> hm, zyp's one looks interesting - although it certainly cuts away a fair amount of code just by being c++
2013-03-30T22:45:05 < jpa-> and some of the code is in his device-independent libraries i guess
2013-03-30T22:45:22 < jpa-> i still don't understand how nuttx manages to stretch it into 5000 lines, though
2013-03-30T22:46:58 < TheSeven> looks like zyp's has some bugs though
2013-03-30T22:47:40 < jpa-> could be, haven't tried it myself
2013-03-30T22:48:17 < jpa-> too bad that none of the simple usb drivers comes close to fully functional & well documented
2013-03-30T22:48:27 < jpa-> the chibios one gets close
2013-03-30T22:48:47 < TheSeven> it seems to have no way of unconfiguring an endpoint, which you need to do after a SET_CONFIGURATION(0) request to be specs compliant
2013-03-30T22:50:21 < TheSeven> and it's quite hard-wired - I'm fairly sure that I couldn't use that one on e.g. an iPod without modifications
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2013-03-30T23:36:40 < zyp> TheSeven, hard-wired how?
2013-03-30T23:37:07 < TheSeven> phy configuration, fifo sizes, available endpoints, ...
2013-03-30T23:37:19 < TheSeven> the various synthesis-time configurables of that core
2013-03-30T23:38:07 < zyp> how does this relate to ipod? does ipod also use dwc_otg?
2013-03-30T23:38:12 < TheSeven> yes
2013-03-30T23:38:28 < zyp> ah
2013-03-30T23:38:33 < TheSeven> and in fact I know that my driver works on those as well :)
2013-03-30T23:38:42 < TheSeven> but with a usb2 480mbit/s phy
2013-03-30T23:39:11 < TheSeven> EP0, EP1 only IN, EP2 only OUT, EP3 only IN, EP4 only OUT
2013-03-30T23:39:18 < TheSeven> no other endpoints available
2013-03-30T23:39:24 < zyp> ouch
2013-03-30T23:41:35 < zyp> well, my code also works with HS
2013-03-30T23:41:40 < zyp> «works»
2013-03-30T23:41:54 < TheSeven> impressive how small it is btw :)
2013-03-30T23:42:17 < zyp> I don't have any way to handle the ability to enumerate both as FS and HS yet
2013-03-30T23:43:01 < TheSeven> you're talking about the different versions in the descriptor and endpoint maxpackets?
2013-03-30T23:43:50 < TheSeven> otg.reg.GUSBCFG = (1 << 30) | (0xf << 10) | (0 << 9) | (0 << 8) | (1 << 6);
2013-03-30T23:44:15 < TheSeven> that line should in theory break highspeed
2013-03-30T23:47:14 < zyp> well, yes
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2013-03-30T23:50:33 < TheSeven> just in case you didn't know, you can determine the interface speed in the ENUM_DONE irq, and choose descriptors and packet sizes accordingly before the first control request comes in
2013-03-30T23:51:05 < zyp> I know
2013-03-30T23:51:22 < zyp> I just have no way of handling two sets of descriptors ye
2013-03-30T23:51:25 < zyp> yet
2013-03-30T23:51:46 < zyp> I'm planning to rewrite the entire descriptor handling when I have time
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--- Day changed Sun Mar 31 2013
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2013-03-31T00:11:40 < baird> "Wearing Camo is just like being a furry except it's pretending to be plants."
2013-03-31T00:11:54 < Laurenceb_> lol
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2013-03-31T00:32:59 < Tectu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPRonG87eKw
2013-03-31T00:34:25 <+Steffanx> Special Laurenceb_ a-like filter for Tectu
2013-03-31T00:42:01 < upgrdman> trying to get spi working on an f0. i have spi2 in 8bit mode (SPI2->CR2 has DS=0111) but every write to SPI2->DR results in 16 clocks on SPI2_SCLK
2013-03-31T00:42:34 < jpa-> upgrdman: remember to set the number of bits before enabling the SPI
2013-03-31T00:43:00 < upgrdman> yes.
2013-03-31T00:43:10 < upgrdman> SPI2->CR1 |= SPI_CR1_BR_2 | SPI_CR1_BR_1 | SPI_CR1_BR_0;
2013-03-31T00:43:10 < upgrdman> 	SPI2->CR2 |= SPI_CR2_DS_0 | SPI_CR2_DS_1 | SPI_CR2_DS_2;
2013-03-31T00:43:11 < upgrdman> 	SPI2->CR1 |= SPI_CR1_SSM | SPI_CR1_SSI;
2013-03-31T00:43:11 < upgrdman> 	SPI2->CR1 |= SPI_CR1_MSTR;
2013-03-31T00:43:11 < upgrdman> 	SPI2->CR1 |= SPI_CR1_SPE;
2013-03-31T00:43:13 < upgrdman> oops. sorry
2013-03-31T00:43:21 < upgrdman> meant to pastebin that
2013-03-31T00:47:08 < jpa-> did you read back the CR2 value to verify what is written?
2013-03-31T00:47:16 < upgrdman> yes
2013-03-31T00:47:35 < upgrdman> SPI2->CR2 = 1792 decimal
2013-03-31T00:47:48 < upgrdman> and SPI1->CR1 = 892 decimal
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2013-03-31T00:50:00 < jpa-> you could make sure that SPI2->I2SCFGR   is 0.. though it should be by default
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2013-03-31T00:53:04 < Tectu> also this
2013-03-31T00:53:04 < Tectu> https://raw.github.com/Tectu/ChibiOS-GFX/master/src/gwin/button.c
2013-03-31T00:53:31 < jpa-> hows the glose module coming along?
2013-03-31T00:53:50 < Tectu> that question is asked to who?
2013-03-31T00:53:57 < upgrdman> jpa-: just checked. it's 0
2013-03-31T00:53:58 < jpa-> you
2013-03-31T00:54:10 < jpa-> upgrdman: very strange that it would do that
2013-03-31T00:54:21 < upgrdman> ya
2013-03-31T00:54:22 < upgrdman> :(
2013-03-31T00:54:28 < upgrdman> i've used spi on the f4 without problems
2013-03-31T00:54:59 <+Steffanx> htmlcolor .. lol Tectu
2013-03-31T00:55:10 <+Steffanx> *2color
2013-03-31T00:55:58 <+Steffanx> Since when that's called html mr Tectu ?
2013-03-31T00:56:16 < Tectu> Steffanx, dunno, I'm not the one that came up with that macro name
2013-03-31T00:56:30 <+Steffanx> lol. change it to something better
2013-03-31T00:57:04 < Tectu> Steffanx, what do you suggest?
2013-03-31T00:57:57  * jpa- jabs Tectu sorry
2013-03-31T00:58:28 < Tectu> :<
2013-03-31T00:58:32 <+Steffanx> There is RGB2COLOR, so HEX2COLOR or whatever Tectu ? :P
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2013-03-31T00:59:48 < Tectu> Steffanx, there's some cleanup needed, I guess: http://pastebin.com/RwxChu32
2013-03-31T00:59:49 <+Steffanx> And somehow it looks more like Hex to RGB
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2013-03-31T01:00:22 <+Steffanx> oh, no
2013-03-31T01:02:08 <+Steffanx> And why those defines inside gwinButtonCallback Tectu ?
2013-03-31T01:02:39 <+Steffanx> and undef at the end :D
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2013-03-31T01:02:57 < Tectu> Steffanx, the entire file doesn't come from me ^^
2013-03-31T01:03:07 < Tectu> Steffanx, I guess it's meant to be a bit easier to write and read the code?
2013-03-31T01:03:11 <+Steffanx>  Joel Bodenmann aka Tectu  <= :P
2013-03-31T01:03:29 < Tectu> Steffanx, that's the copyright, not the autor
2013-03-31T01:03:31 < Tectu> author*
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2013-03-31T01:04:29 <+Steffanx> Still me
2013-03-31T01:04:30 <+Steffanx> h
2013-03-31T01:04:32 <+Steffanx> *meh
2013-03-31T01:07:01 < Tectu> Steffanx, do you think that the #define and #undef is a nogo?
2013-03-31T01:07:51 <+Steffanx> It doesn't feel right :P
2013-03-31T01:08:18 < Tectu> I undersand
2013-03-31T01:08:20 < Tectu> understand
2013-03-31T01:08:38 <+Steffanx> Can't you change it into const or so? GCC is smart enough not?
2013-03-31T01:09:28 < Tectu> Steffanx, for one, I don't know, for another, the library must be usable with other compilers than GCC as well
2013-03-31T01:09:58 <+Steffanx> Any compiler should be smart enough for that
2013-03-31T01:11:57 < Tectu> and this should work?
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2013-03-31T01:12:13 <+Steffanx> but im not sure if you should listen to one who hasnt wrote a single line of c/c++ code in anges :P
2013-03-31T01:12:15 <+Steffanx> -ages
2013-03-31T01:12:18 <+Steffanx> *months
2013-03-31T01:14:00 <+Steffanx> *written
2013-03-31T01:14:02 <+Steffanx> lol english
2013-03-31T01:14:53 < Tectu> Steffanx, btw, what are you doing when you're not at home?
2013-03-31T01:14:58 < Tectu> study? work?
2013-03-31T01:15:04 <+Steffanx> Study and thinking about you
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2013-03-31T01:15:19 <+Steffanx> and real life crap :)
2013-03-31T01:16:31 < Tectu> :D
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2013-03-31T01:24:30 <+Steffanx> anyway have a photo of the result Tectu ?
2013-03-31T01:24:33 <+Steffanx> the result of that lib
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2013-03-31T01:26:46 < Tectu> Steffanx, sure, sec
2013-03-31T01:28:22 < Tectu> Steffanx, http://www.abload.de/img/img_00000058e9rum.jpg
2013-03-31T01:28:36 < Tectu> Steffanx, sorry, I couldn't get the entire file hirarchy on the screen
2013-03-31T01:28:56 <+Steffanx> Uhm ..
2013-03-31T01:29:05 < Tectu> hmm?
2013-03-31T01:29:24 <+Steffanx> You didn't draw that with your fancy routines did you? :)
2013-03-31T01:29:42 < Tectu> no? that's a picture from my computer monitor showing the file hirarchy of the lib?
2013-03-31T01:29:49 < Tectu> the result of the work?
2013-03-31T01:29:53 <+Steffanx> Yeah :)
2013-03-31T01:29:55 < Tectu> okay, that trolling didn't work...
2013-03-31T01:29:56 <+Steffanx> And learn how to upright your phone :)
2013-03-31T01:30:16 < Tectu> Steffanx, there aren't any fancy pictures showing the library yet
2013-03-31T01:30:23 <+Steffanx> Make one
2013-03-31T01:30:27 <+Steffanx> You have a screen
2013-03-31T01:30:27 < qyx_> you are not being helpful, Steffanx
2013-03-31T01:30:39 < Tectu> Steffanx, the "make it look nice" part will follow soon.
2013-03-31T01:30:45 <+Steffanx>  /kick qyx_ you deserve it
2013-03-31T01:30:52 <+Steffanx> WTF qyx_ . It was a serious question
2013-03-31T01:31:15 <+Steffanx> I don't care if it looks great, just want to see the result
2013-03-31T01:31:23 < Tectu> Steffanx, all the dev time has been spent into the entire structure of the library, the LLDs and getting the structure for nice looks widgets right. The fancy part hasn't been done yet ;)
2013-03-31T01:31:33 < Tectu> Steffanx, currently, users of the library just blit bitmaps themself
2013-03-31T01:31:39 < Tectu> to make it look as they want it
2013-03-31T01:31:44 <+Steffanx> So no one has drawn anything yet? :)
2013-03-31T01:31:45 < qyx_> it was about uprighting the phone
2013-03-31T01:32:00 < Tectu> Steffanx, http://chibios-gfx.com/images/pictures/stmpe811.jpg
2013-03-31T01:32:14 <+Steffanx> That was also pretty serious qyx_ . Chrome doesn't to photo rotating
2013-03-31T01:32:22 < Tectu> Steffanx, it's a very bare demo with no fancy graphics because it's meant to work on any systems, it's more like a test application the dev team is using
2013-03-31T01:32:35 <+Steffanx> So no buttons yet :(
2013-03-31T01:33:17 < Tectu> Steffanx, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTxNxa58fNc
2013-03-31T01:33:24 < Tectu> Steffanx, there you got buttons with ugly bitmaps
2013-03-31T01:34:11 <+Steffanx> Hey, finally :D
2013-03-31T01:36:26 < Tectu> Steffanx, ;-)
2013-03-31T01:36:54 < Tectu> Steffanx, the library is designed so I don't have to care to make it look nice
2013-03-31T01:36:56 < Tectu> because I suck at it
2013-03-31T01:37:34 < Tectu> for example, the buttons... when you create a button, you give it two function pointers, one to the drawing routine for the released state, the other for the pressed state
2013-03-31T01:38:11 < Tectu> however, the library does of course provide default templates, different styles (raw, rounded corners, 3D, shadowing, different shapes (ellipses, arrows etc))
2013-03-31T01:38:33 < Tectu> so you can do quick'n'dirty stuff as well as the nice application specific stuff
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2013-03-31T01:46:39 <+Steffanx> nice nice
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2013-03-31T04:29:21 < Tectu> [x] fixed clock
2013-03-31T04:31:33 < dongs> [x] lack of blogging
2013-03-31T04:36:55 < Tectu> [x] lack of BMP
2013-03-31T04:39:37 < dongs> [x] blame opensores
2013-03-31T04:40:04 < zyp> hmm
2013-03-31T04:40:18 < zyp> dongs, was it so that you had a spare ipad lcd you could send me?
2013-03-31T04:40:26 < dongs> sure
2013-03-31T04:40:36 < dongs> you didnt find out in scatland?
2013-03-31T04:40:40 < dongs> out=one
2013-03-31T04:40:54 < zyp> haven't really searched
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2013-03-31T05:23:55 < upgrdman> anyone here used spi on an f0?
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2013-03-31T05:25:12 < Tectu> where's the matter? A lot different from the other F series?
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2013-03-31T05:27:40 < dongs> zyp: anyhow yeah i got 2-3 here , at least 2 that I know of.
2013-03-31T05:27:44 < upgrdman> im trying to use it in 8bit mode, and its acting like its in 16bit mode
2013-03-31T05:27:58 < upgrdman> yet CR1 and CR2 read back correctly
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2013-03-31T05:52:49 < Tectu> meanwhile at dongs house: http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/6943864_460s_v1.jpg
2013-03-31T06:00:33 < dongs> i have that pokemon
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2013-03-31T06:59:56 < crumb> does the stm32f4 have draw power from both its microusb and miniusb ports?
2013-03-31T07:00:41 < dongs> ?
2013-03-31T07:00:47 < crumb> err
2013-03-31T07:00:51 < crumb> the discovery board
2013-03-31T07:01:31 < gxti> easy to test
2013-03-31T07:01:59 < crumb> i don't have it setup yet
2013-03-31T07:02:26 < crumb> also, how many amps does it draw
2013-03-31T07:02:27 < gxti> then look at the schematic
2013-03-31T07:02:49 < crumb> k
2013-03-31T07:03:18 < crumb> anyway, my main question was what kind of camera modules have been used with it?
2013-03-31T07:03:25 < crumb> or can be used with it rather
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2013-03-31T09:38:24 < zyp> crumb, no, f4discovery only draws power from miniusb
2013-03-31T09:39:15 < zyp> (since it supports otg and therefore can output power on microusb)
2013-03-31T09:46:40 < crumb> oh ok, thanks
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2013-03-31T11:30:29 < Robint91> hi all
2013-03-31T11:35:43 < Posterdati> hi
2013-03-31T11:36:18 < Posterdati> is anyone using dm3730 cpu? I've experienced freezes on the dm37x-evm board (dm3730).
2013-03-31T11:39:21 < jpa-> ##stm32, the new ##microcontrollers 
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2013-03-31T14:38:19 < Tectu> how are you, Steffanx ?
2013-03-31T14:40:07 <+Steffanx> Sorry Tectu, we're not going to repeat the same thing every day
2013-03-31T14:40:27 < Tectu> is that what your girlfriend tells you ever night?
2013-03-31T14:42:52  * Steffanx is going to use dongs's tactics .. ignore it
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2013-03-31T15:01:27 < Robint91> LOL
2013-03-31T15:06:01 < timemob> Chat?
2013-03-31T15:07:02 <+Steffanx> Not really timemob. I just copied your behaviour
2013-03-31T15:07:39 < timemob> Oh but I missed it
2013-03-31T15:07:48 <+Steffanx> zlog knows
2013-03-31T15:07:48 < zlog> Steffanx: Log stored at http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23%23stm32/2013-03-31.html
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2013-03-31T15:08:08 < timemob> Pfft
2013-03-31T15:09:02 < timemob> Lol @tectu gf
2013-03-31T15:09:28 < timemob> It's probably one of those anniemay pillows
2013-03-31T15:10:30 <+Steffanx> Anyway, even most SDHC (microsd) cards support SPI not
2013-03-31T15:10:31 <+Steffanx> ?
2013-03-31T15:10:40 < Tectu> http://d3f650ayx9w00n.cloudfront.net/700/14908.jpg
2013-03-31T15:10:45 < Tectu> Steffanx, yeah
2013-03-31T15:10:52 < Tectu> Steffanx, I only had problem with one (SanDisk)
2013-03-31T15:11:13 <+Steffanx> ok, then i'll go for just spi instead of sdio
2013-03-31T15:11:26 < timemob> Noooo
2013-03-31T15:11:32 <+Steffanx> YES
2013-03-31T15:11:32 < timemob> Spi sucks
2013-03-31T15:11:38 < timemob> NO
2013-03-31T15:11:50 <+Steffanx> YES
2013-03-31T15:11:59 < Robint91> Tectu, DA NIPPLES
2013-03-31T15:12:09 <+Steffanx> It's a 48 pins parts vs > 64 timemob
2013-03-31T15:12:16 < timemob> Even 1 bit sdio > spi
2013-03-31T15:12:29 < timemob> O rite
2013-03-31T15:12:40 <+Steffanx> *part
2013-03-31T15:12:51 < timemob> But what is it for
2013-03-31T15:13:25 <+Steffanx> Just a VERY simple, gps / gyro/accelometer logger + messing around with usb and stuff
2013-03-31T15:13:37 < Tectu> Steffanx, don't do the SPI thing
2013-03-31T15:13:46 < Tectu> Steffanx, go with SDIO if possible
2013-03-31T15:14:13 < timemob> ...
2013-03-31T15:14:38 <+Steffanx> It is possible, but that requires at least a 64 pins part.
2013-03-31T15:14:44 < Tectu> Steffanx, you know, I never got more than a few hundert kbps with SPI. it's always <= 1M
2013-03-31T15:14:51 <+Steffanx> I just want to record my bicycle trips without a fancy phone
2013-03-31T15:14:57 <+Steffanx> ( i refuse to buy a fancy phone )
2013-03-31T15:15:21 <+Steffanx> You think i need 1mbyte/s ?
2013-03-31T15:15:33 <+Steffanx> Not for the recording part, perhaps to read it from the card
2013-03-31T15:15:37 < pelrun> a logger like that doesn't need a monster transfer rate
2013-03-31T15:15:39 < Tectu> no, I didn't know what you need before
2013-03-31T15:15:52 < zyp> Tectu, when you use slow SD cards, the card interface is not the bottleneck
2013-03-31T15:15:53 < pelrun> leave it to the cheap chinese sd card reader
2013-03-31T15:16:12 < timemob> You can just log at like 10hz and that's plenty
2013-03-31T15:16:16  * pelrun last did an sd card logger using an arduino :P
2013-03-31T15:16:17 <+Steffanx> Yeah
2013-03-31T15:16:30 < Tectu> Steffanx, it may just happen that not evers SD card will work. I cannot recommend SanDisk. Kingstons and Transcend always worked for me
2013-03-31T15:16:31 <+Steffanx>  /quit pelrun
2013-03-31T15:16:31 < pelrun> (client choice of platform, not mine :)
2013-03-31T15:16:39 < Tectu> zyp, okay
2013-03-31T15:16:55 < zyp> Tectu, http://bin.jvnv.net/f/e16v1.png
2013-03-31T15:17:01 <+Steffanx> I always use class 10, not that that says much
2013-03-31T15:17:02 < pelrun> Steffanx, would have been really funny if you forgot the leading space
2013-03-31T15:17:21 < zyp> Tectu, D0 low means card is busy
2013-03-31T15:17:37 < pelrun> oh god, that
2013-03-31T15:17:38 < Tectu> zyp, the card seems to be busy quite a lot there...
2013-03-31T15:18:13 < zyp> yes
2013-03-31T15:18:17 <+Steffanx> So SPI it is
2013-03-31T15:18:19 < zyp> that's my point
2013-03-31T15:18:24 < pelrun> cheap cards can claim class 10, take in data at 10mb/s... then signal busy for a long time whilst they write their buffers out
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2013-03-31T15:19:09 < zyp> pelrun, that's not true
2013-03-31T15:19:17 < Tectu> pelrun, wtf?
2013-03-31T15:19:30 < pelrun> ok, they probably can't claim class 10
2013-03-31T15:19:33 < Tectu> pelrun, the class does also give include continious write, no?
2013-03-31T15:19:37 < zyp> class designations aren't related to signalling rate
2013-03-31T15:19:37 < Tectu> so this wouldn't be true
2013-03-31T15:19:46 < Tectu> zyp, but?
2013-03-31T15:20:12 <+Steffanx> Like the chinese care about that. They just write class 10 on any card
2013-03-31T15:20:16 < pelrun> but they can and do give you heartache with regards to write latencies
2013-03-31T15:20:28 <+Steffanx> + 45MB/s super speed II extra
2013-03-31T15:20:41 < zyp> class designations tell about the sustained data rate and how it degrades with use
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2013-03-31T15:20:56 < pelrun> I did say cheap :)
2013-03-31T15:21:04 < zyp> the specs has some curves for that
2013-03-31T15:21:19 < pelrun> honesty tends to take a nosedive as the price drops
2013-03-31T15:21:23 <+Steffanx> Hey, my question was just about spi/sdio/sdhc, not the classes and stuff :P
2013-03-31T15:21:37 < Tectu> zyp, SD card speed decrades with use? o.O
2013-03-31T15:21:58 < pelrun> you shouldn't really have any trouble logging at 10hz no matter what you use
2013-03-31T15:22:18 < zyp> Tectu, of course, it's flash based storage
2013-03-31T15:22:30 < Tectu> zyp, but with use we talk about years, no?
2013-03-31T15:22:52 < zyp> it's measured in cycles
2013-03-31T15:23:09 < Tectu> and about what range do we talk here?
2013-03-31T15:23:20 < zyp> hang on, let me dig up the spec
2013-03-31T15:23:36 < pelrun> it'll be cool to see flash come out with that cell-restoration technology come out that I saw a while back
2013-03-31T15:23:40 <+Steffanx> Hows jappyland btw zyp ?
2013-03-31T15:23:45 <+Steffanx> Still coldish?
2013-03-31T15:23:55 < zyp> yeah
2013-03-31T15:24:05 <+Steffanx> You mean the one with the heating element pelrun ?
2013-03-31T15:24:13 < pelrun> yup
2013-03-31T15:24:49 < pelrun> hopefully will dramatically improve lifetimes
2013-03-31T15:24:51 <+Steffanx> Perhaps i forgot, but what happened with that data on it when they did that?
2013-03-31T15:25:08 < pelrun> I can't remember the specifics
2013-03-31T15:25:45 < pelrun> but the pr spin was that it could bring a flash cell back to factory-new condition
2013-03-31T15:26:00 < pelrun> you only do it on erased pages
2013-03-31T15:26:08 < pelrun> not on ones with data present
2013-03-31T15:26:26 < pelrun> since you're trying to flush out the electrons that got stuck in the substrate
2013-03-31T15:26:42 < Tectu> okay guys, please recommend movies. genre: Sci-Fi horror
2013-03-31T15:26:50 < pelrun> event horizon XD
2013-03-31T15:26:55 < Tectu> seen about 100 times
2013-03-31T15:26:59 < Tectu> but yes, exactly stuff like that
2013-03-31T15:27:43 < pelrun> chronocrimines?
2013-03-31T15:27:56 <+Steffanx> Alien, best horror scifi ish movies ever :P
2013-03-31T15:28:23 < zyp> Tectu, umm, read 4.13 in this: https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/pls/simplified_specs/part1_410.pdf
2013-03-31T15:28:34 < Tectu> Steffanx, seen
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2013-03-31T15:28:40 < Tectu> pelrun, never heard that one
2013-03-31T15:28:45 <+Steffanx> I  bet you've seen them all
2013-03-31T15:28:46 < pelrun> sorry, "los cronocrimines"/timecrimes
2013-03-31T15:29:11 < Tectu> pelrun, ah ^^
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2013-03-31T15:29:20 < Tectu> pelrun, sounds like movie 'bout time traveling
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2013-03-31T15:29:56 < pelrun> you would be correct in that assessment
2013-03-31T15:30:19 < baird> Gyo (animated) -- zombie sharks powered by farts
2013-03-31T15:30:46 < pelrun> ...
2013-03-31T15:30:47 <+Steffanx> noo baird
2013-03-31T15:30:56 < zyp> oh, I saw that one
2013-03-31T15:31:09 < Tectu> pelrun, saw the trailer, doesn't seem to be that interested
2013-03-31T15:31:15 < Tectu> baird, wrd?
2013-03-31T15:31:56 < pelrun> Tectu: it's not a recommendation, I'm just trying to think of movies that are "sci-fi horror"
2013-03-31T15:32:01 <+Steffanx> Tectu, trailers don't say ANYTHING about a movie imho
2013-03-31T15:32:26 <+Steffanx> Tectu : ##stm32-moviesuggestions
2013-03-31T15:34:09 < baird> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur_WqzyJj_U .. there's subs out there for the full movie
2013-03-31T15:36:21 < zyp> baird, it's pretty wtf
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2013-03-31T15:38:10 < baird> Junji Ito <--
2013-03-31T15:38:15 <+Steffanx> it's japanese
2013-03-31T15:39:16 < zyp> Steffanx, but that one is pretty wtf even for being japanese
2013-03-31T15:42:00 < pelrun> Oh, it's Junji Ito
2013-03-31T15:42:07 < baird> My theory has been that Japanese cinema has lagged behind the West in terms of content by 15-20 years-- the 1998 Ringu film being a lot like the late 1970s/early 80s American horror films. Stuff like Gyo is getting into the early body horror and torture-porn flick era. :)
2013-03-31T15:42:20 < pelrun> yep, his stuff is definitely wtf even by japanese standards
2013-03-31T15:42:49 < pelrun> those genres aren't really my cup of tea :)
2013-03-31T15:42:54 < baird> The one with the spirals...
2013-03-31T15:44:09 <+Steffanx> And baird complains about the hobbies of his roommmate
2013-03-31T15:44:52 <+Steffanx> *house mate
2013-03-31T15:45:28 < Robint91> http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6874662/dora-the-explorer-and-the-destiny-medallion-part-1
2013-03-31T15:45:29 < Robint91> THIS
2013-03-31T15:47:10 <+Steffanx> Sorry, can't watch that crap from more that 30 seconds
2013-03-31T15:47:29 < Robint91> Steffanx, why not?
2013-03-31T15:47:44 <+Steffanx> its not funny at all
2013-03-31T15:50:23 < baird> http://i.imgur.com/e1YzNPU.jpg
2013-03-31T16:01:19 < baird> I finally succumed to temptation and ordered a LCD panel for the F4 Disco. Ordered on the 19th from E14; still hasn't arrived. :/
2013-03-31T16:10:27 < timemob> I don't get that Nokia pic
2013-03-31T16:10:33 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurence@host86-174-20-97.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-31T16:11:04 < peque> from the human centipede I think
2013-03-31T16:11:07 < peque> :-P
2013-03-31T16:17:09 < Laurenceb_> my favourite film
2013-03-31T16:17:43  * peque wont see that shit, ever
2013-03-31T16:17:45 < peque> xD
2013-03-31T16:19:08 -!- MrMobius [~Joey@194.176.111.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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2013-03-31T16:21:50 < BrainDamage> as rule of thumb, if Laurenceb_ approves it, stay the fuck away from it
2013-03-31T16:22:22 < peque> xD
2013-03-31T16:22:54 < Thorn> http://www.technewsdaily.com/17103-smartphone-satellite-space-nanosatellite.html
2013-03-31T16:23:16 < Laurenceb_> http://www.needlesandsins.com/2010/06/15/Human-Centipede-Tattoo.jpg
2013-03-31T16:23:28 < Laurenceb_> Thorn: brought to you by #highaltitude
2013-03-31T16:25:44 < Laurenceb_> they run UDP over I"C
2013-03-31T16:25:47 < Laurenceb_> *I2C
2013-03-31T16:30:56 < Thorn> I hope you didn't mean the tattoo
2013-03-31T16:32:30 < Laurenceb_> luckly not
2013-03-31T16:35:29 -!- barthess [~barthess@77.67.213.255] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
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2013-03-31T16:51:23 < dongs> phonesat dot o are gee
2013-03-31T16:54:19 < baird> Adventureblogging: http://kildall.apana.org.au/~cjb/wordpress/archives/291 .. all 9 days are journaled now.
2013-03-31T16:54:48 <+Steffanx> wat Mr dongs?
2013-03-31T16:58:45 < dongs> lol, baird has a blog?
2013-03-31T17:01:00 <+Steffanx> not him, his bike
2013-03-31T17:01:48 < baird> Dusted off something from 2005-2008.. They were all the rage back then.  Wasn't happy with the current means of sharing photos on Internets2013.
2013-03-31T17:02:17 < dongs> youi mean 4chan
2013-03-31T17:02:45 <+Steffanx> flickr
2013-03-31T17:03:13 < baird> upload-your-content-so-we-make-monies type places..
2013-03-31T17:03:49 <+Steffanx> Thats how everything works nowadays baird
2013-03-31T17:03:53 < baird> Flickr dead /years/ ago.. Even the ProAms I knew have given up on it, and just dump their shit on Facebook now.
2013-03-31T17:04:11 <+Steffanx> flickr dead?
2013-03-31T17:04:21 < dongs> ya flickr is dead as BSD if not worse
2013-03-31T17:04:32 < baird> I'd probably use flick more if there wasn't the freeloader-200-limit
2013-03-31T17:04:37 < dongs> even imgur is better than flickr
2013-03-31T17:04:57 <+Steffanx> imgur .. no way
2013-03-31T17:05:04 <+Steffanx> but you have stocks/shares in that website, so..
2013-03-31T17:05:18 < baird> limited commenting and journalling on imgur.
2013-03-31T17:08:26 < baird> With the wordpress setup, I could also do stuff like embed videos like I've done on the Day 6 entry.
2013-03-31T17:09:27 <+Steffanx> You did find/make the most ugly wp template ever
2013-03-31T17:09:54 < baird> Hey, I made that myself.
2013-03-31T17:10:14 < baird> rude
2013-03-31T17:10:16 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@unaffiliated/akawolf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2013-03-31T17:10:35 <+Steffanx> Come on. You have to agree with me on that
2013-03-31T17:10:37 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@unaffiliated/akawolf] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-31T17:11:22 <+Steffanx> And it's fantastic how you're still into your charl.. even a reference to her on that website :)
2013-03-31T17:11:47 < baird> Hmm, probably should nuke that.
2013-03-31T17:12:16 < baird> Then again, if she sees that, she'll go ballistic again. :D
2013-03-31T17:13:40 < baird> I'll probably remove them when the hypothetical next girlfriend arrives.
2013-03-31T17:13:45 < dongs> http://kildall.apana.org.au/~cjb/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/random/1221836876953.png i dont get it
2013-03-31T17:17:26 -!- timemob [~dongs@g1-27-253-251-108.bmobile.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Bye]
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2013-03-31T17:20:28 < baird> No fair going through people's past..
2013-03-31T17:21:31 < dongs> http://kildall.apana.org.au/~cjb/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/computer/embeddedboard.jpg 2008 rapeberry pi
2013-03-31T17:21:35 < dongs> probably 100x more useful, too
2013-03-31T17:22:05 <+Steffanx> connexant ..
2013-03-31T17:22:37 < dongs> now thats really something thats deader htan BSD
2013-03-31T17:22:54 < baird> Dunno where the 80186 boards went..
2013-03-31T17:23:12 <+Steffanx> charl took em
2013-03-31T17:23:24 < baird> Salvaged from a burgler alarm system.
2013-03-31T17:24:21 < Laurenceb_> <dongs> http://kildall.apana.org.au/~cjb/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/random/1221836876953.png
2013-03-31T17:24:24 < Laurenceb_> haha
2013-03-31T17:24:30 < Laurenceb_> that was on tv the other day
2013-03-31T17:24:36 < dongs> oh?
2013-03-31T17:24:59 < Laurenceb_> tests for bee thrust
2013-03-31T17:26:48 < Laurenceb_> i was watching a documentary of bee thrust
2013-03-31T17:26:53 < Laurenceb_> *on
2013-03-31T17:27:05 < dongs> did they freeze them
2013-03-31T17:27:46 < Laurenceb_> i think so
2013-03-31T17:28:08 < Laurenceb_> then tied to strain guages and annoyed
2013-03-31T17:28:15 < Laurenceb_> pretty funny
2013-03-31T17:32:34 < Laurenceb_> http://kildall.apana.org.au/~cjb/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/computer/rtty-porn.jpg
2013-03-31T17:33:53 < Laurenceb_> "GNU/Hurd port of pkgsrc "
2013-03-31T17:33:57 < Laurenceb_> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha
2013-03-31T17:36:07 < dongs> hurd?
2013-03-31T17:37:44 -!- peque [~peque@130.Red-88-1-200.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2013-03-31T17:37:56 < Laurenceb_> dongs doesn't know about hurd?
2013-03-31T17:38:51 < dongs> whoi duesnt know about gnu/turd
2013-03-31T17:38:56 < Laurenceb_> you
2013-03-31T17:39:36 -!- badger [~tom@cxkg.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2013-03-31T17:40:01 < baird> More nekkid rtty porn: http://kildall.apana.org.au/~cjb/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/computer/rtty-2.jpg
2013-03-31T17:40:13 <+Steffanx> Here on that doesn't care about gnu/hurd
2013-03-31T17:40:19 <+Steffanx> *one
2013-03-31T17:40:28 < Laurenceb_> "The GNU Hurd is under active development. Because of that, there is no stable version"
2013-03-31T17:40:30 < Laurenceb_> i lolled
2013-03-31T17:40:33 < dongs> haha
2013-03-31T17:41:01 < Laurenceb_> is that thing what baird uses for irc?
2013-03-31T17:41:08 < baird> Twitter
2013-03-31T17:42:41 < baird> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmQ9_0RlIBg
2013-03-31T17:42:52 <+Steffanx> Would be nice to be use that for irc
2013-03-31T17:43:27 < baird> Fuck, a brony commented on the video. I thought I had that shit turned off.
2013-03-31T17:44:55 < dongs> lol, brony
2013-03-31T17:44:58 < dongs>  who was it, Laurenceb_ ?
2013-03-31T17:45:33 <+Steffanx> his furry friends
2013-03-31T17:45:40 < dongs> probaly
2013-03-31T17:45:43 <+Steffanx> *one of his
2013-03-31T17:48:32 < baird> Nice french-polished fingernails, Laurenceb
2013-03-31T17:49:31 <+Steffanx> is that an imb-ish keyboard?!
2013-03-31T17:50:46 < baird> The teletype was something German. The fag who commented has vids typing on a Model M..
2013-03-31T17:51:10 <+Steffanx> Yeah, i was refering to that kb
2013-03-31T17:57:33 < Laurenceb_> wtf @ rpi site
2013-03-31T17:58:10 < dongs> url
2013-03-31T17:58:12 <+Steffanx> rpi site?
2013-03-31T17:58:31 < dongs> https://youtube.com/watch?v=0zJyTY9DMYE guessing this
2013-03-31T17:58:41 < Laurenceb_> yes
2013-03-31T17:59:00 <+Steffanx> you care too much
2013-03-31T17:59:02 <+Steffanx> again
2013-03-31T17:59:15 < dongs> GIRLS ENGINEERING
2013-03-31T17:59:43 < Laurenceb_> a sandwich
2013-03-31T17:59:57 < dongs> FIRST OF ALL ITS SOMETHING YOU PROBABLY DONT WANNA EAT
2013-03-31T17:59:59 <+Steffanx> troll failed Laurenceb_
2013-03-31T18:00:03 < dongs> fap fap fap
2013-03-31T18:01:30 < dongs> https://youtube.com/watch?v=0zJyTY9DMYE#t=181s
2013-03-31T18:01:32 < dongs> fuck yhea
2013-03-31T18:03:06 < Laurenceb_> irl lolled
2013-03-31T18:03:52 < Laurenceb_> well.. lol/facepalmed
2013-03-31T18:04:15 -!- alexn [~alexn@178-27-128-46-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined ##stm32
2013-03-31T18:05:07 <+Steffanx> im proud of you Laurenceb_
2013-03-31T18:05:12 <+Steffanx> very proud
2013-03-31T18:05:38 < baird> Breaking News: Anita Sarkeesian murders 5 highschool girls for being too girly.
2013-03-31T18:06:11 < dongs> https://youtube.com/watch?v=0zJyTY9DMYE#t=445s
2013-03-31T18:07:33 < baird> 13yo girls wearing pencil skirts-- just like in my japanese animes!
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2013-03-31T18:11:19 < MrMobius> hi Rick
2013-03-31T18:12:27 < Laurenceb_> Rick Astley?
2013-03-31T18:13:12 < MrMobius> never gonna guve, never gonna give...
2013-03-31T18:16:59 < gxti> wuts goin on in here
2013-03-31T18:17:48 < Laurenceb_> trolling and stuff
2013-03-31T18:18:28 < Laurenceb_> trying to write my thesis without plagiarising it all
2013-03-31T18:18:31 <+Steffanx> ##stm32-we-are-fking-bored gxti
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2013-03-31T18:22:53 < baird> ##stm32-i-bought-my-own-easter-eggs-this-year
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2013-03-31T18:26:23 < Robint91> http://i.imgur.com/JJRkaW7.png
2013-03-31T18:26:34 <+Steffanx> You also hid it yourself baird
2013-03-31T18:26:36 < Robint91> remarks? just designed it
2013-03-31T18:26:37 <+Steffanx> *them
2013-03-31T18:26:47 <+Steffanx> wut is it?
2013-03-31T18:27:06 < Robint91> Steffanx, 16W audio amplifier
2013-03-31T18:27:10 < Robint91> using HEXFETs
2013-03-31T18:27:19 < Robint91> aka cheap switching mosfets
2013-03-31T18:27:24 < Robint91> as linear elements
2013-03-31T18:27:25 < gxti> dunno lol, flailing at making a power supply right now actually, but i suck at analog.
2013-03-31T18:28:00 < Robint91> Steffanx, 20dB voltage gain
2013-03-31T18:28:18 < gxti> using switching mosfets for linear is probably a bad idae but i guess it's probably not so bad at 16W?
2013-03-31T18:28:51 < Robint91> gxti, it is not that bad
2013-03-31T18:29:00 < Robint91> gxti, it is more difficult to get it stable
2013-03-31T18:29:12 < Robint91> gxti, that is why you see C5
2013-03-31T18:29:16 < gxti> i mean in terms of not bursting into flames because the cells are unbalanced
2013-03-31T18:29:56 < Robint91> gxti, na, there is feedback, which cancels try to cancel the diff between the NMOS/PMOS
2013-03-31T18:30:08 < gxti> i mean internally to the FET
2013-03-31T18:30:32 < gxti> it's made of multiple cells (probably why it's called 'hex') and they're not really very well matched
2013-03-31T18:30:56 < gxti> so it's likely that some will be driven harder than others and if you're anywhere near the margins of the device (probably not) poof
2013-03-31T18:31:09 < Robint91> gxti, mhh
2013-03-31T18:31:17 < gxti> it should be ok, just 16W
2013-03-31T18:31:18 < crumb> any recommended wireless modules for the discovery boards?
2013-03-31T18:31:39 < Robint91> gxti, for + 100W you should look at it
2013-03-31T18:31:51 < Robint91> gxti, but it is so easy to parallell mosfets
2013-03-31T18:32:12 < Robint91> gxti, nice thing is you don't need a driver for the mosfets
2013-03-31T18:32:19 < Robint91> like you need to do with BJTs
2013-03-31T18:32:28 <+Steffanx> crumb range? price?
2013-03-31T18:32:29 < gxti> trudat
2013-03-31T18:32:38 <+Steffanx> the nrf24l01+ modules are pretty cheap on ebay
2013-03-31T18:33:21 < crumb> Steffanx: 50ft.. under $30
2013-03-31T18:33:53 < qyx_> yep, that nordic modules
2013-03-31T18:33:55 <+Steffanx> Should be doable i think with the cheapish nrf24l01+ from ebay
2013-03-31T18:33:55 < qyx_> around $1.5
2013-03-31T18:34:07 < qyx_> already with pcb antenna
2013-03-31T18:36:32 < crumb> nice.. 10 pieces for 12 bucks
2013-03-31T18:40:22 < Robint91> gxti, around 14 Watt loss in the mosfets
2013-03-31T18:40:47 < Robint91> gxti, around 55% eff
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2013-03-31T18:41:23 < crumb> ordered a OV7670 cam module as well, just need a temp sensor
2013-03-31T18:41:54 -!- _BJFreeman is now known as BJfreeman
2013-03-31T18:43:33 < Robint91> gxti, http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfp140npbf.pdf http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfp9140n.pdf
2013-03-31T18:43:36 < Robint91> as power mosfets
2013-03-31T18:44:06 < gxti> shrug, try it and see what happens
2013-03-31T18:44:12 < gxti> if they explode then replace with linear mosfets
2013-03-31T18:49:10 < crumb> how can i get a read on the surrounding temp, and not the board temp? :/
2013-03-31T18:49:37 < gxti> i don't know crumb, what do you think?
2013-03-31T18:50:37 -!- Steffanx [~Steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Quit: zzzzZZzzz]
2013-03-31T18:54:00 < crumb> hmm.. get a temperature reading using an external thermometer, then subtract it from the onboard temp?
2013-03-31T18:54:21 < crumb> then use that difference to subtract from the onboard temp every time? ^_-
2013-03-31T18:55:01 < gxti> or... just use a temperature sensor?
2013-03-31T18:55:38 < crumb> where
2013-03-31T18:55:51 < gxti> where you want to measure the temperature
2013-03-31T18:56:07 < crumb> i mean, what sensor do you recommend
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2013-03-31T18:59:05 < gxti> MCP9701 or LM335 or DS1822 probably
2013-03-31T18:59:45 < BJfreeman> both of those mosfets and depletion mode they are normal on and have to be bias off
2013-03-31T19:02:46 < pelrun> "X has not built successfully, check the logs" the logs are 0 bytes long >:(
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2013-03-31T19:23:17 < jpa-> TMP100 is nice
2013-03-31T19:23:54 < jpa-> digital, yet easier to interface than DS1822
2013-03-31T19:24:20 < jpa-> (uses more wires though, because it is I2C)
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2013-03-31T19:43:15 < pelrun> 1-wire isn't too painful
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2013-03-31T20:08:29 < jpa-> pelrun: it does require precise timing, though.. so if there is much other realtime load, it may be troublesome
2013-03-31T20:10:07 < pelrun> I suppose so
2013-03-31T20:10:15 < pelrun> you do have to bitbang it
2013-03-31T20:10:45 < jpa-> hmph.. all parts in my circuit are specced up to 85°C.. and yet it always stops operating somewhere around 70°C
2013-03-31T20:11:05 < pelrun> what's the circuit?
2013-03-31T20:11:15 < jpa-> simple temperature monitor
2013-03-31T20:11:21 < pelrun> hm
2013-03-31T20:11:25 < jpa-> transmits temperature by RF
2013-03-31T20:11:42 < jpa-> my guess is that the RF transmitter stops operating.. but it also is specced to 85°C
2013-03-31T20:12:15 < pelrun> temperature change of component values?
2013-03-31T20:12:42 < pelrun> also, what rf module are you using?
2013-03-31T20:12:46 < jpa-> qam-tx3
2013-03-31T20:12:58 < Laurenceb_> <pelrun> 1-wire isn't too painful
2013-03-31T20:12:59 < Laurenceb_> lulwut
2013-03-31T20:13:10 < jpa-> the passive components i have shouldn't be critical.. just some pull-up resistors and bypass capacitors
2013-03-31T20:13:21 < Laurenceb_> how do you drive it then? with usart haxor technique?
2013-03-31T20:13:39 < jpa-> usart haxor technique is quite nice one
2013-03-31T20:15:41 < pelrun> is the transmitter actually halting, or is it just drifting too far off in frequency?
2013-03-31T20:16:01 < jpa-> the receiver has adjustable frequency, but adjusting it to either direction doesn't help
2013-03-31T20:16:41 < pelrun> got an rtl-sdr to look at the output?
2013-03-31T20:17:35 < jpa-> nope
2013-03-31T20:17:46 < jpa-> but lets see if this frequency counter can pick it up..
2013-03-31T20:20:16 < jpa-> hmph it's too short transmission pulses for it
2013-03-31T20:20:36 < jpa-> the transmitter is on for only 200ms at a time
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2013-03-31T20:52:06 < Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/30/oakland_international_cat_festival/
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2013-03-31T21:07:06 < qyx_> Laurenceb_: usart haxor is even recommended by maxim/dallas somewhere in AN
2013-03-31T21:07:30 < Laurenceb_> ah yeah found it on their site
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2013-03-31T22:37:43 < Laurenceb_> WTF
2013-03-31T22:37:44 < jpa-> yay colors
2013-03-31T22:38:03 <+Steffanx> DDoS it
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2013-03-31T22:38:49 < qyx_> nearly unreadable
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2013-03-31T22:40:48 <+Steffanx> eprog?
2013-03-31T22:40:53 <+Steffanx> Whatever that may be
2013-03-31T22:41:39 < jpa-> rcebt, obviously
2013-03-31T22:42:15 <+Steffanx> rcebt ..
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2013-03-31T22:43:10 <+Steffanx> You lost me jpa-
2013-03-31T22:43:22 < jpa-> i thought i won you
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2013-03-31T22:43:41 <+Steffanx> on coke/cola again?
2013-03-31T22:44:38 < jpa-> no but i'm passing some RF signals through the metal cover of a pushbutton.. does that count?
2013-03-31T22:45:13 <+Steffanx> Sometimes i get hte idea you don't talk nonsense on purpose anymore
2013-03-31T22:45:36 < jpa-> did i used to do that?
2013-03-31T22:45:45 < jpa-> (was that grammatically correct thing to say?)
2013-03-31T22:45:48 <+Steffanx> At least ~ out of context
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2013-03-31T22:48:09 <+Steffanx> What kind of fancy rf you're doing jpa- ?
2013-03-31T22:48:28 < jpa-> not very fancy
2013-03-31T22:48:40 < jpa-> but tiny and non-operative above 70°C
2013-03-31T22:48:52 <+Steffanx> You need it above that temp?
2013-03-31T22:48:56 < jpa-> yes
2013-03-31T22:49:07 < jpa-> i would prefer up to 100°C but atleast 85°C
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2013-03-31T22:50:15 <+Steffanx> Whats the purpose?
2013-03-31T22:50:26 < jpa-> to cook some ham
2013-03-31T22:51:10 <+Steffanx> You need rf for that? ( except for a microwave oven )
2013-03-31T22:51:27 < jpa-> not really, but it would be cooler with RF
2013-03-31T22:51:39 <+Steffanx> What for?
2013-03-31T22:52:00 < jpa-> so no wires that wear down between the oven door
2013-03-31T22:52:03 <+Steffanx> To monitor what?
2013-03-31T22:52:07 <+Steffanx> temp?
2013-03-31T22:52:13 < jpa-> yeah
2013-03-31T22:52:32 <+Steffanx> Just that. Heh.
2013-03-31T22:52:59 < jpa-> i don't know if there would be something else worth monitoring?
2013-03-31T22:53:05 < BrainDamage> cooler as in: the RF radiation goes trough the walls and reduce internal energy of the room?
2013-03-31T22:53:17 <+Steffanx> humidity, everything jpa- :)
2013-03-31T22:53:38 < jpa-> it's close enough to impossible with just temperature :)
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2013-03-31T22:59:02 <+Steffanx> Which rf module  jpa- ?
2013-03-31T22:59:11 <+Steffanx> i think you said that before, but .. cant find it again
2013-03-31T22:59:18 < jpa-> qam-tx3
2013-03-31T22:59:28 < jpa-> soom ##stm32 is the top result for that also
2013-03-31T22:59:50 <+Steffanx> Not here
2013-03-31T22:59:56 <+Steffanx> unless you mean a grep on qam-tx3
2013-03-31T23:00:06 < jpa-> *soon
2013-03-31T23:00:28 < jpa-> http://koti.kapsi.fi/jpa/stuff/pix/um_pcb_soldered.jpg   it's the itty bitty thingy to the left of the battery
2013-03-31T23:00:30 <+Steffanx> Is the zlog that popular?
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2013-03-31T23:02:35 <+Steffanx> whats that big ass ( compared to the other parts ) part ? Battery?
2013-03-31T23:02:50 <+Steffanx> temp sensor or some homemade something?
2013-03-31T23:02:50 < jpa-> yes
2013-03-31T23:03:05 <+Steffanx> I've never seen a battery like that before
2013-03-31T23:03:09 < jpa-> cr435
2013-03-31T23:05:59 < Robint91> http://i.imgur.com/jiMQ7y1.png <- 0.03% THD @ 25W
2013-03-31T23:06:03 < Robint91> Oh YEAH
2013-03-31T23:06:13 < Robint91> and that for shitty switching mosfets
2013-03-31T23:06:38 <+Steffanx> It doesn't work, yet
2013-03-31T23:06:41 < jpa-> they haven't yet invented opamps where you live?
2013-03-31T23:07:07 < Robint91> jpa-, opamps are quite sucky when building power amps
2013-03-31T23:07:11 < Robint91> jpa-, did that once
2013-03-31T23:07:32 < gxti> hmm
2013-03-31T23:07:35 < Robint91> jpa-, using an opamp as predriver, didn't worked well, stability was a bitch
2013-03-31T23:07:38 < BrainDamage> you basically reinvented an opamp tough
2013-03-31T23:08:01 < gxti> i have no advice, i don't understand anything about stability or phase to begin with
2013-03-31T23:08:14 < Robint91> BrainDamage, no shit? Have you seen the long tailed pair?
2013-03-31T23:08:41 < jpa-> someone should give sherlock some laxative
2013-03-31T23:08:44 < gxti> i guess instead of banging on the keyboard until something nice pops out of ltspice i should go find a book
2013-03-31T23:09:06 < gxti> there are some disadvantages to doing electronics with no education ;p
2013-03-31T23:09:20 < Robint91> I hope that the 1N750 zener diode doesn't add to much noise
2013-03-31T23:09:21 < BrainDamage> yes, and the vbe level shifter, and the ab class output buffer :p
2013-03-31T23:09:35 < BrainDamage> and let's not forget the compensation cap too ..
2013-03-31T23:09:37 < Robint91> BrainDamage, basic stuff
2013-03-31T23:09:49 < Robint91> BrainDamage, there are two compensation caps
2013-03-31T23:10:32 < Robint91> meh C5 is just to have a dominate pole at a point where I like
2013-03-31T23:10:53 < Robint91> and not some HF pole of the devices
2013-03-31T23:11:13 < Robint91> BrainDamage, don't you see the nice current source
2013-03-31T23:11:48 < BrainDamage> I'd have used something slightly different
2013-03-31T23:11:59 < BrainDamage> using a resistor to set the current is lame :p
2013-03-31T23:12:06 < Robint91> BrainDamage, something with a LED
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--- Log closed Mon Apr 01 00:00:28 2013