--- Log opened Mon Oct 01 00:00:06 2018
--- Day changed Mon Oct 01 2018
2018-10-01T00:00:06 < con3> thanks!
2018-10-01T00:00:21 < emeb> but for a lot of stuff the HSI is just fine
2018-10-01T00:00:46 < con3> I'll be running timers,sdcard,spi,etc so think I should prob get an external
2018-10-01T00:00:59 < emeb> eh, maybe.
2018-10-01T00:02:03 < con3> got to run again. thanks for the help!
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2018-10-01T00:21:36 < Laurenceb124> memmies
2018-10-01T00:22:24 < emeb> memeless
2018-10-01T00:25:45 < Laurenceb124> https://i.imgtc.com/jbgk1TR.jpg
2018-10-01T00:26:10 < Laurenceb124> Start and Select
2018-10-01T00:26:12 < Laurenceb124> S.S.
2018-10-01T00:26:30 < Laurenceb124> https://i.imgtc.com/tEDjtIU.jpg
2018-10-01T00:27:19 < BrainDamage> trying too hard
2018-10-01T00:27:52 < englishman> sup evening chatters. and some monday morning chatters
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2018-10-01T00:31:08 < emeb> trying to redesign my I2S master
2018-10-01T00:33:13 < branjb> anyone ever messed around with DRB III?
2018-10-01T00:42:11 < emeb> get on the flu train?
2018-10-01T00:43:24 < branjb> or anyone mess with obd2/can?
2018-10-01T00:43:41 < emeb> an englishman lives across the street and has been running a chainsaw for the last 1/2 hour.
2018-10-01T00:43:55 < englishman> shoot him with your freedom dispenser
2018-10-01T00:44:08 < emeb> nah. he's a nice guy.
2018-10-01T00:45:09 < emeb> plus, no freedom dispenser
2018-10-01T00:45:19 < emeb> this house is completely undefended.
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2018-10-01T00:46:28 < englishman> good to know
2018-10-01T00:47:22 < emeb> didn't wear your biohazard suit?
2018-10-01T00:47:25 < emeb> tsk tsk
2018-10-01T00:48:15 < BrainDamage> release the spiders
2018-10-01T00:48:43 < emeb> spiders on a train
2018-10-01T00:48:46 < emeb> snakes on a plane
2018-10-01T00:48:54 < _abc_> spiders on an irc channel\
2018-10-01T00:48:57 < emeb> tortoises on a conestoga
2018-10-01T00:49:02  * _abc_ turns in for zzz
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2018-10-01T00:49:15 < englishman> upgrdman_: happy holidays
2018-10-01T00:53:13 -!- upgrdman_ is now known as upgrdman
2018-10-01T00:53:26 < upgrdman> englishman, haha, thx. im actually america's now, for that reason :)
2018-10-01T00:53:31 < upgrdman> *america'd
2018-10-01T00:53:37 < englishman> nice
2018-10-01T00:54:16 < upgrdman> at least i got to benefit from last monday's festival holiday.
2018-10-01T00:54:51 < upgrdman> it's a shame i hate chinese food, because there was fuckloads of it all around
2018-10-01T00:56:21 < emeb> what's not to like about chinese food?
2018-10-01T00:57:53 < upgrdman> emeb, i don't care much for pork or seafood, and 90% of chinese food is pork and seafood. the other 10% of chinese food is that god awful brown mix of spices that they put in ~everything
2018-10-01T00:58:17 < englishman> ah yes
2018-10-01T00:58:23 < englishman> i have a jar of "chinese spice"
2018-10-01T00:58:29 < englishman> because that is the name of the spice
2018-10-01T00:58:33 < upgrdman> ya
2018-10-01T00:58:34 < BrainDamage> I love seafood, but I agree they have a pork fetish
2018-10-01T00:58:43 < upgrdman> 9 spice or china spice or whatever the fuck it's called.
2018-10-01T00:58:48 < emeb> upgrdman: fair enough.
2018-10-01T00:58:59  * emeb usually gets chicken-based stuff
2018-10-01T00:59:13 < upgrdman> emeb, ya. to be fair, im a picky eater, so it's not all china's fault.
2018-10-01T00:59:18 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-spice_powder ?
2018-10-01T00:59:26 < englishman> yea
2018-10-01T00:59:32 < upgrdman> ya
2018-10-01T00:59:50 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/sM5NF2pt
2018-10-01T00:59:51 < englishman> back to hotdogs and ketchup
2018-10-01T01:00:00 < BrainDamage> what I'm not a fan is that weird mix of sweet and sour
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2018-10-01T01:00:19 < upgrdman> englishman, im a bad american. i also don't like ketchup. or most condiments for that matter.
2018-10-01T01:00:34 < emeb> ketchup is pretty meh
2018-10-01T01:00:37 < upgrdman> but hotdogs and corndogs, fuck ya!
2018-10-01T01:01:07 < BrainDamage> 99% of the barbecue sauce is ketchup with brown sugar
2018-10-01T01:01:18 < BrainDamage> which tastes just bleh to me
2018-10-01T01:01:34 < upgrdman> also chinese food is mostly boiled/soggy shit. i like muh Maillard Reaction.
2018-10-01T01:01:58 < emeb> mmm... seared & crispy
2018-10-01T01:02:11 < upgrdman> yes
2018-10-01T01:02:27 < emeb> all your proteins are turned to deleeeshus complex hydrocarbons.
2018-10-01T01:02:35 < upgrdman> ftw
2018-10-01T01:02:56 < BrainDamage> for flavour? absolutely for health: depends on the amount
2018-10-01T01:03:18 < BrainDamage> the char on the steak is what gives its flavour
2018-10-01T01:04:08 < englishman> ah usa https://i.imgur.com/F0LTwGm.png
2018-10-01T01:04:19 < upgrdman> lol
2018-10-01T01:04:27 < emeb> two awful things that are awful together!
2018-10-01T01:04:43 < upgrdman> i should buy some pumpkin spice and try it on things. like oatmeal, or random bland food.
2018-10-01T01:04:54 < BrainDamage> why not on a latte
2018-10-01T01:05:03 < upgrdman> BrainDamage, sure
2018-10-01T01:05:24 < BrainDamage> I wonder if they sell complementary packs
2018-10-01T01:05:50 < BrainDamage> you know, for instance here on the highways you can buy a pack of breadsticks along with ham or nutella
2018-10-01T01:05:52 < BrainDamage> as a bundle
2018-10-01T01:06:05 < BrainDamage> so you could get pumpkin spice latte and ugg boots
2018-10-01T01:06:10  * emeb thought he meant complementary as in a thing and its opposite
2018-10-01T01:06:13 < BrainDamage> the 'basic' pack
2018-10-01T01:06:24 < emeb> pumpkin spice and anti-pumpkin spice
2018-10-01T01:06:38 < BrainDamage> mmm, now I'm curious what would that be
2018-10-01T01:06:43 < emeb> put them together and they annihilate each other
2018-10-01T01:06:49 < upgrdman> BrainDamage, mustard?
2018-10-01T01:06:57 < upgrdman> sufficiently opposite
2018-10-01T01:07:31 < BrainDamage> capers
2018-10-01T01:07:55 < emeb> lol - of course there's a reddit about this -> https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2hhxp6/whats_the_opposite_of_pumpkin_spice/
2018-10-01T01:11:59 < upgrdman> random question: any comments of what dishwasher detergent to use? im running low, and the Cascade shit i've been using works fine but seems overpriced.
2018-10-01T01:13:02 < BrainDamage> there's not much difference between them
2018-10-01T01:13:39 < BrainDamage> they can have varying concentration of active principle, the surfactants, that's the real difference, problem is that you won't know without trying
2018-10-01T01:15:29 < englishman> whatever is cheapest at costco
2018-10-01T01:15:55 < upgrdman> k
2018-10-01T01:16:03 < englishman> and rinse aid
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2018-10-01T01:22:02 < Laurenceb124> >reddit
2018-10-01T01:22:10 < Laurenceb124> le so cool commenters
2018-10-01T01:23:19 < Laurenceb124> chans ftw
2018-10-01T01:24:51 < Laurenceb124> kek
2018-10-01T01:25:04 < Laurenceb124> irc masterrace
2018-10-01T01:26:08 < Laurenceb124> found ur posts https://postimg.cc/sM5NF2pt
2018-10-01T01:27:29 < Laurenceb124> u need to post an update
2018-10-01T01:28:31 < Laurenceb124> after you ran away intodawoods
2018-10-01T01:47:21 < karlp> come to a seminar, lots of locations! http://www.cvent.com/events/dialog-greenpak-workshops/event-summary-1558973df95c40ec8efca7cd8163443c.aspx (there's 5)
2018-10-01T01:59:08 < emeb> meh
2018-10-01T01:59:33 < emeb> used to be there were some of those seminars here in PHX area, but it's been a long time since I saw one.
2018-10-01T02:00:47 < zyp> did I miss anything interesting this weekend? just came home from a trip to .dk
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2018-10-01T02:04:26 < emeb> how was .dk?
2018-10-01T02:05:36 < emeb> denmark
2018-10-01T02:05:57 < emeb> The land of the expensive furnitures
2018-10-01T02:06:05 < emeb> so modern
2018-10-01T02:08:36 < zyp> it was fine
2018-10-01T02:09:45 < emeb> tivoli? legoland? the little mermaid? all the touristy stuff?
2018-10-01T02:09:47 < zyp> managed to misplace the RFID card I used to authorize at the danish EV chargers though, that was pretty fucking annoying
2018-10-01T02:10:05 < emeb> eep!
2018-10-01T02:10:28 < emeb> how do you recover from that?
2018-10-01T02:11:23 < zyp> well, first I tried to search for it
2018-10-01T02:15:03 < zyp> charged outside a shopping mall earlier today, and last time I remember having the card was when I authorized to end the charge session, after which I put it in my breast pocket
2018-10-01T02:15:56 < zyp> after that we went to eat lunch, wandered through a store right next to the restaurant and drove into the central area of the city we were next to
2018-10-01T02:16:48 < emeb> Expensive to replace?
2018-10-01T02:17:06 < zyp> in the city center, we went into some paid parking lot, ticket for it also went into breast pocket
2018-10-01T02:17:18 < zyp> and that's when I realized the charging card weren't there anymore
2018-10-01T02:18:06 < emeb> that sinking feeling.
2018-10-01T02:18:20 < zyp> I don't expect it to be a big deal to replace, unless their customer support is terrible I expect I'll email them and they'll send me a new
2018-10-01T02:18:37 < emeb> Hopefully you didn't need it on the way home.
2018-10-01T02:19:57 < zyp> well, I needed at least one more charging stop on the way home
2018-10-01T02:21:05 < zyp> I got one of those plugsurfing rfid things too, which also would work
2018-10-01T02:21:41 < zyp> but for some reason, the direct subscription I have gets me a rate of 5 SEK/kWh, the plugsurfing costs almost 10 DKK/kWh, i.e. over twice as expensive
2018-10-01T02:22:36 < zyp> I figured I could just drive to the charger and call support to have them remotely authorize me - the norwegian companies does that if there's any problems
2018-10-01T02:22:45 < emeb> how many kWh to do a full charge typically?
2018-10-01T02:24:07 < zyp> so I tried that, but all I got was an answering machine saying something about opening hours mon-fri 8-16 or so
2018-10-01T02:24:15 < zyp> «in an emergency, call this number instead»
2018-10-01T02:24:20 < emeb> blech
2018-10-01T02:24:29 < emeb> no 24/7 support
2018-10-01T02:24:47 < emeb> I know a guy in Toronto area who also has an e-golf. 
2018-10-01T02:25:23 < emeb> the Ontario gov't there has contracted w/ a private company to maintain chargers around the province
2018-10-01T02:25:32 < zyp> so I tried the other number, which got me another answering machine «if you're standing somewhere needing to charge and don't have a card, you can go pay online»
2018-10-01T02:25:45 < emeb> but apparently they're poorly maintained and often when he gets to them they're out of service
2018-10-01T02:25:57 < zyp> checked that, they had like a 20 kWh pack at 175 DKK
2018-10-01T02:25:59 < emeb> and the website doesn't give updated status so there's no way to know.
2018-10-01T02:26:11 < zyp> so I figured fuck it and authorized with the plugsurfing thing instead
2018-10-01T02:26:32 < emeb> ka-ching
2018-10-01T02:27:07 < zyp> overall losing the card probably cost me an extra $15-20 or something
2018-10-01T02:27:24 < zyp> not a big issue, just annoying
2018-10-01T02:27:31 < emeb> yep
2018-10-01T02:27:35 < emeb> 1st-world problems
2018-10-01T02:27:48 < zyp> and I don't understand where the card went
2018-10-01T02:28:23 < emeb> I've had stuff fall out of the shirt pocket when bending over.
2018-10-01T02:28:27 < zyp> I went back and checked at the shopping mall, the restaurant and that other store
2018-10-01T02:28:34 < zyp> well, yeah
2018-10-01T02:28:47 < zyp> I just haven't been doing any bending over
2018-10-01T02:29:35 < emeb> hopefully whoever finds it can't bleed you dry
2018-10-01T02:30:15 < emeb> I once forgot to pull my debit card out of a cash machine at the bank. 
2018-10-01T02:30:22 < zyp> if it weren't 1:30 AM, I'd email the company and tell them to block it, but that can wait until tomorrow
2018-10-01T02:30:42 < emeb> but apparently the machines are designed to suck the cards back in to a hopper if they're not removed within a certain time
2018-10-01T02:30:50 < emeb> so the bank just sent me a new one.
2018-10-01T02:30:56 < zyp> yeah
2018-10-01T02:31:36 < zyp> misplacing stuff is not a regular occurrence for me, which makes this extra weird
2018-10-01T02:31:58 < emeb> age-related memory loss. :P
2018-10-01T02:32:08 < zyp> haha
2018-10-01T02:32:20 < zyp> not the first sign I'm getting older, if that's the case :p
2018-10-01T02:32:27 < emeb> snerk
2018-10-01T02:34:33 < zyp> oh well, bedtime
2018-10-01T02:35:20 < emeb> gn
2018-10-01T02:35:21 < zyp> maybe tomorrow I'll get to tell the story of how the card turned up after all and was just hiding in a really unexpected place :p
2018-10-01T02:35:31 < emeb> there you go.
2018-10-01T02:35:34 < emeb> in your wallet
2018-10-01T02:35:42 < emeb> stuck in a seat cushion
2018-10-01T02:35:51 < zyp> checked both already :p
2018-10-01T02:35:58 < emeb> of course
2018-10-01T02:35:58 < zyp> also, that card has never been put in the wallet
2018-10-01T02:36:14 < zyp> I keep all charging auth tokens in the car, no point in carrying them elsewhere
2018-10-01T02:36:30 < emeb> makes sense
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2018-10-01T04:01:43 < dongs> okay off to shitheap with altidumb 19
2018-10-01T04:01:48 < dongs> this thing is unusable
2018-10-01T04:01:51 < dongs> back to 18
2018-10-01T04:16:35 < karlp> gotta make sure the person who steals your car can drive it too :)
2018-10-01T04:31:05 < englishman> emeb: lol @ Ontario
2018-10-01T04:31:34 < englishman> dongs: what did it, I also went back. don't even know where installed libraries menu moved to. and for some reason can't place parts into schematic
2018-10-01T04:33:03 < dongs> englishman: the fucking routing
2018-10-01T04:33:51 < dongs> it stopped snapping into things and space stoppeed working for changing bend direction 
2018-10-01T04:35:20 < englishman> yikes
2018-10-01T04:35:30 < dongs> like, i routed 2 boards that way
2018-10-01T04:35:32 < dongs> but it was god damn annoying
2018-10-01T04:35:39 < dongs> and i didnt see anything in prefs about ti
2018-10-01T04:35:43 < dongs> so off to the shitheap it goes
2018-10-01T04:37:06 < emeb_mac> englishman: right? it's like they're trying to discourage it.
2018-10-01T04:43:57 < englishman> sounds like every Ontario program ever
2018-10-01T04:47:46 < englishman> no
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2018-10-01T04:48:18 < englishman> the french part has an excellent ev network and electricity is 1/4 the cost
2018-10-01T04:54:36 < dongs> lol
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2018-10-01T05:13:09 < emeb_mac> heh
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2018-10-01T05:24:35 < aandrew> plugsurfing, heh
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2018-10-01T06:31:51 < cjbaird> Solved my ReactOS install issues-- found a Windows2000 install iso. Almost nothing like USB due to no drivers for an i5 laptop, but the trackpad is okay, and that's enough for what it needs to do.
2018-10-01T06:32:18 < dongs> wut
2018-10-01T06:32:22 < dongs> why dont you use fucking windows 10
2018-10-01T06:32:25 < dongs> like normal human beings
2018-10-01T06:32:31 < dongs> and not shit from 2 decades ago
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2018-10-01T06:33:50 < cjbaird> Because it's running shit software from 20 years ago. Also, W10=brain damaged elephant that needs its nappy changed every 20 minutes.
2018-10-01T06:34:01 < dongs> what "shit software"
2018-10-01T06:34:14 < dongs> did you know? you can run mspaint.exe from windows 95 on win10
2018-10-01T06:34:16 < dongs> and it still wroks
2018-10-01T06:34:27 < dongs> there's no "shit software" that would require win2000 in 2018
2018-10-01T06:34:35 < cjbaird> Single-function setup. Not a MAKE ME SUPERWOKECYBERMAN ON SWOCIAL MEDIA shit.
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2018-10-01T06:39:17 < cjbaird> Would be much easier if you could get the entire question pool for the exams like in the States.. (or drivers licences here)
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2018-10-01T07:41:58 < cjbaird> Windows operating systems do run quite well on computers made 15+ years later. :)
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2018-10-01T09:15:01 < c4017> Any altium pros?
2018-10-01T09:15:18 < c4017> I pressed P-Y or some shit and the grid dissapeared
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2018-10-01T09:49:01 < dongs> try gg or ctrl-g
2018-10-01T09:49:48 < dongs> also the hell is p-y anyway
2018-10-01T09:50:06 < dongs> oh slice polygon
2018-10-01T09:50:10 < dongs> that shit never worekd for me
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2018-10-01T10:56:20 < Steffanx> I heard dongs complain about it.
2018-10-01T10:56:37 < Steffanx> Like he does with every release :P
2018-10-01T10:59:48 < Sadale> Never tried altium xD
2018-10-01T11:00:16 < Sadale> I'm not willing to spend the money to try it. I'm not a serious hardware guy anyway. :3
2018-10-01T11:00:22  * Sadale is a dumb softwareman
2018-10-01T11:05:40 < jadew> kicad might actually catch up to altium eventually
2018-10-01T11:06:05 < jadew> in v6 (not yet released) they've reorganized the menus and all that
2018-10-01T11:06:09 < jadew> it makes more sense now
2018-10-01T11:06:50 < jadew> from what I understand they're rewriting some other core stuff, so they're cleaner and more easy to work on
2018-10-01T11:07:15 < jadew> I expect that after that is done, it will get many new features
2018-10-01T11:08:30 < jadew> it already has a plugin system that can deal with a lot of things, but it's not well documented and not widely used, but I've seen what it can be done with it, so a lot of missing features will probably be implemented like that, before they become a part of the core package
2018-10-01T11:10:37 < jadew> IMO, it doesn't take much to have a good PCB editor
2018-10-01T11:25:50 < Sadale> I think I'll learn kicad.
2018-10-01T11:26:08 < Sadale> Maybe altium is the go-to tool for professional use. But I'm just an amateur when it comes to hardware :P
2018-10-01T11:26:19 < Sadale> So free software it is :P
2018-10-01T11:27:10 < veverak> 10:10:37         jadew │ IMO, it doesn't take much to have a good PCB editor ||| loooooooooooooool
2018-10-01T11:27:16 < dongs> kikecad users are non-employable
2018-10-01T11:27:33 < Sadale> knowing kicad is much better than not knowing any PCB software.
2018-10-01T11:28:08 < Sadale> Of course it'd be better to know altium or any other professional PCB software. But still, knowing kicad is far better than nothing
2018-10-01T11:28:33 < veverak> Sadale: TBH this should be kind of obvious
2018-10-01T11:28:35 < veverak> :)
2018-10-01T11:28:39 < Sadale> right xD
2018-10-01T11:28:55 < Sadale> The thing is that I still don't know kicad nor any PCB software >_<
2018-10-01T11:29:14 < Sadale> I guess I'll be learning it soon. For that dumb game console project.
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2018-10-01T11:29:42 < jadew> dongs, it's not like the skill are not transferable
2018-10-01T11:29:53 < jadew> and last I checked, Altium was easy to get into
2018-10-01T11:29:53 < Sadale> It's a new system. So new games have to be developed just for this game console
2018-10-01T11:30:02 < dongs> jadew: beating head into wall vs flying smoothly through a layout? i donno
2018-10-01T11:30:34 < Sadale> It's better to try out both before judging :p
2018-10-01T11:30:43 < jadew> dongs, next layout I do in kicad, I'll stream it
2018-10-01T11:30:44 < Sadale> Anyway I'd expect altium to be strong than kicad.
2018-10-01T11:30:52 < dongs> jadew: i would actually watch that
2018-10-01T11:30:56 < Sadale> crt, lol
2018-10-01T11:31:13 < veverak> crt: why? it's fun
2018-10-01T11:31:23 < veverak> crt: he thinks everything is bullshit, makes it funny
2018-10-01T11:31:38 < veverak> Haohmaru: again, like he does about everything
2018-10-01T11:32:04 < veverak> Haohmaru: I am on his list!
2018-10-01T11:32:20 < veverak> Haohmaru: C++ programmer, linux user/admin, uses KiCad
2018-10-01T11:32:24 < veverak> Haohmaru: 3 out of 3 hits
2018-10-01T11:33:29  * veverak likes anime
2018-10-01T11:33:48  * dongs takes notes
2018-10-01T11:33:59 < dongs> the #stm32 hate graph
2018-10-01T11:34:03 < veverak> :D :D
2018-10-01T11:34:05 < Sadale> dongs, BTW, would you be interested in having a meetup next time you visit Hong Kong? :P
2018-10-01T11:34:15 < veverak> the winner takes it alL!
2018-10-01T11:34:15 < Steffanx> Furry stule.
2018-10-01T11:34:19 < Steffanx> Style.
2018-10-01T11:34:41 < dongs> Sadale: if you bring in some more pro EEs why not, i got a monday in there where i haven't planned anything (the event im attending is on weekend
2018-10-01T11:35:21 < dongs> also https://www.gaytravel4u.com/event/hong-kong-gay-pride/ is happening while im there.
2018-10-01T11:35:50 < jadew> there was a gay protest yesterday here
2018-10-01T11:36:00 < jadew> I don't know what they were protesting for, but I recognized the flag
2018-10-01T11:36:22  * jadew went to the rock museum
2018-10-01T11:36:56 < dongs> i think you mean gay rock museum
2018-10-01T11:36:59 < dongs> if talking about music
2018-10-01T11:37:11 < jadew> no, geology
2018-10-01T11:37:16 < dongs> ah, that's OK
2018-10-01T11:37:22 < Sadale> dongs, well, I guess I'm not able to bring in any pro EEs. :c
2018-10-01T11:37:27 < dongs> pfft
2018-10-01T11:37:37 < zyp> aww
2018-10-01T11:37:44 < Sadale> Y'know, I'm a software guy xD
2018-10-01T11:37:52 < Sadale> I'm not an electronic guy.
2018-10-01T11:38:18 < dongs> lunix developers
2018-10-01T11:38:25 < dongs> (should really be in quotes)
2018-10-01T11:38:41 < Sadale> linux developers or linux sysadmin? :p
2018-10-01T11:42:13 < Sadale> I wonder how's dongs like in real life, tho xD
2018-10-01T11:42:23 < Sadale> Is he as mean as he is in this channel? :P
2018-10-01T11:43:32 < Sadale> BTW, regarding the flash cycle limit problem of the game console, I guess I've got a (sort-of) solution. xD
2018-10-01T11:44:04 < Sadale> My solution is to add the menu item "replay last game". That option doesn't require a reflash and it just launches the last game you've played.
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2018-10-01T11:44:38 < Sadale> none! It's a new system.
2018-10-01T11:44:39 < dongs> autism invaders
2018-10-01T11:44:56 < Sadale> Oh. In case you missed that, I'm currently developing a game console as a hobby project. It's a minimalist one. It runs on STM32F030K6T6. 
2018-10-01T11:44:59 < dongs> hmm gaytravel4u seems to be down
2018-10-01T11:45:31 < Sadale> When the game console is powered up, it shows a menu showing the files inside an SD card. Then it can load the game from the card and run it.
2018-10-01T11:45:49 < Sadale> It's done by self-flashing, which some users here pointed out that it would cause the flash to wear out quickly.
2018-10-01T11:45:53 < dongs> F030 doesnt evne have SDIO
2018-10-01T11:46:02 < Sadale> true.
2018-10-01T11:46:23 < dongs> you picked worst possible shit for the job
2018-10-01T11:46:36 < zyp> I thought we established that yesterday
2018-10-01T11:47:12 < Sadale> indeed >_<
2018-10-01T11:47:53 < Sadale> b-bit it works. :P
2018-10-01T11:48:09 < Sadale> Cracki, that's because the flash in the microcontroller has limited number of write cycles.
2018-10-01T11:48:20 < Sadale> yes.
2018-10-01T11:48:49 < Sadale> The entire game is flashed into a part of the flash in the microcontroller.
2018-10-01T11:49:00 < Sadale> Right. It doesn't fir into the RAM. And it can't run code from SD card.
2018-10-01T11:49:03 < Sadale> fit*
2018-10-01T11:49:08 < zyp> it's not possible to do XIP from SD
2018-10-01T11:49:20 < Sadale> Indeed :(
2018-10-01T11:49:27 < Sadale> Doubt that this thingie supports external RAM.
2018-10-01T11:49:56 < zyp> you don't even need external ram, we were talking ROM sizes of like 20k here
2018-10-01T11:50:17 < Sadale> just get a better microcontroller with more RAM and I guess that's it.
2018-10-01T11:50:53 < zyp> yeah, you don't even need to go to a highend MCU to get enough resources
2018-10-01T11:52:18 < Sadale> I wrongly assumed that the write cycles were like 10000 or so. That'd be acceptable to me.
2018-10-01T11:53:02 < Sadale> 10000 cycles would mean that I can load like 10 games everyday, and the game console would still last for 3 years. And that ain't a problem at all :P
2018-10-01T11:53:18 < Sadale> In fact it only has >1000 write cycles xD
2018-10-01T11:53:36 < Sadale> Then I was like "oh shit."
2018-10-01T11:53:38 < emeryth> what?
2018-10-01T11:54:00 < Sadale> yes. It's 1000. I thought that I misread it. I googled that just to find out I read that correctly.
2018-10-01T11:54:09 < Sadale> true.
2018-10-01T11:54:19 < Sadale> I bet that it'd last much more than 1000 cycles in room temperature.
2018-10-01T11:54:40 < Sadale> But still xD
2018-10-01T11:54:41 < emeryth> oh the f030 is just especially cheap, other stm32s have 10k
2018-10-01T11:54:49 < Sadale> right..
2018-10-01T11:55:15 < zyp> you don't even have to switch away from F030, just switch from K6 to CC or something
2018-10-01T11:55:23 < zyp> F030CC has 32k RAM
2018-10-01T11:55:25 < Sadale> true.
2018-10-01T11:55:57 < Sadale> It is :)
2018-10-01T11:56:04 < Sadale> For the purpose of this game console, it is more than enough.
2018-10-01T11:56:15 < Sadale> right.
2018-10-01T11:56:16 < zyp> yesterday he said each game had 20k ROM and K6 has 4k RAM
2018-10-01T11:56:34 < zyp> so 32k of ram should fit everything comfortably
2018-10-01T11:56:34 < Sadale> I'd cut the program size from 20kB to 16kB.
2018-10-01T11:57:10 < Sadale> And the game console supports program-switching. Multiple programs can be included in a single game ROM.
2018-10-01T11:57:27 < Sadale> In case the game is a large scale one, it can pack multiple roms into the same image and do the switching programatically.
2018-10-01T11:57:28 < zyp> also, if you put it all in ram, it doesn't even matter how much rom and how much ram each game uses, it's all ram anyway
2018-10-01T11:57:38 < Sadale> oh true.
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2018-10-01T11:58:00 < Sadale> The game itself can do the spliting itself.
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2018-10-01T11:58:05 < zyp> one game could have 4k of rom, leaving the remaining 28k available, another could have 24k of rom, leaving 8k
2018-10-01T11:58:20 < Sadale> I just need to reserve a bit RAM for the bootloader and the system library.
2018-10-01T11:58:26 < zyp> yeah
2018-10-01T11:58:34 < zyp> preferably at the end
2018-10-01T11:58:49 < Sadale> why?
2018-10-01T11:58:56 < Sadale> Why not in the front?
2018-10-01T11:59:39 < zyp> because if you have the reserved section at the end, the game can always link for a fixed origin of 0x20000000
2018-10-01T11:59:53 < zyp> regardless of the size of the reserved section
2018-10-01T11:59:58 < zyp> also, stack grows top-down
2018-10-01T12:00:26 < zyp> so I'd put any .data/.bss that needs to be retained after game start at the very end, then stack in front of that
2018-10-01T12:00:59 < Sadale> ah. I've reserved a fix amount of RAM for the bootloader.
2018-10-01T12:01:05 < Sadale> It's a bit less than 256 bytes.
2018-10-01T12:02:26 < zyp> reserving means you have to know ahead of time how much you need
2018-10-01T12:02:42 < Sadale> true.
2018-10-01T12:02:56 < Sadale> I'm rather confident about the future RAM usage of the bootloader. :p
2018-10-01T12:03:26 < Sadale> The bootloader consists of the game selection menu and system library.
2018-10-01T12:03:42 < zyp> the system library is supposed to be usable by the games, right?
2018-10-01T12:03:54 < Sadale> The system library is more or less fixed. So the RAM usage of the library won't won't be increased by much.
2018-10-01T12:04:19 < zyp> you assume you've thought of everything and won't have to ever add features
2018-10-01T12:04:20 < Sadale> The game selection menu can just share the RAM with the games because the menu doesn't appears at the same time as the game.
2018-10-01T12:04:49 < zyp> yeah, that is fair
2018-10-01T12:04:54 < Sadale> I've made a demo game with the current library. It works. Of course, I've reserved a bit of RAM for future expansion.
2018-10-01T12:05:16 < Sadale> And for the RAM, I can often use the RAM in the stack instead of putting it as a global variable.
2018-10-01T12:05:33 < Sadale> There isn't much cases that require using global variables after all :3
2018-10-01T12:05:41 < zyp> anyway, to flip the question, what's the benefit of making a reserved area at the start?
2018-10-01T12:06:04 < Sadale> I think putting it at the front and the back are the same.
2018-10-01T12:06:30 < zyp> i.e. you don't see any benefits?
2018-10-01T12:06:41 < Sadale> Let's assume that I'm putting it to the back.
2018-10-01T12:07:44 < Sadale> The stack of the game would be located right in the front of the reserved area at the back.
2018-10-01T12:07:51 < Sadale> If I expand the reserved area, the game would still break.
2018-10-01T12:08:07 < Sadale> That's because the game stack would corrupt the reserved area.
2018-10-01T12:08:59 < Sadale> Am I missing something? :s
2018-10-01T12:09:19 < zyp> no, the game has no reason to expect the stack to be in any given position, the game can just keep growing the stack from wherever the stack pointer was pointing at at game startup
2018-10-01T12:11:08 < Sadale> weird. Doesn't the stack grow backward?
2018-10-01T12:11:17 < Sadale> oh I guess I get your idea.
2018-10-01T12:11:18 < zyp> exactly
2018-10-01T12:11:30 < Sadale> You meant that the stack can be put at the beginning.
2018-10-01T12:11:48 < Sadale> hold on.
2018-10-01T12:11:49 < zyp> 32k is 0x8000, say you have the last 0x400 reserved, bootloader would then leave stack pointer at 0x7c00 when starting the game
2018-10-01T12:11:55 < Sadale> oh. I get why there's a confusion.
2018-10-01T12:12:37 < Sadale> zyp, the game console doesn't work in a way that you're thinking about. The game would set the stack pointer itself. It doesn't use the stack pointer at the game startup.
2018-10-01T12:12:58 < zyp> why would the game set the stack pointer itself? that makes no sense
2018-10-01T12:13:30 < Sadale> To free up the stack memory taken by the game menu. The game menu is no longer useful after the game is launched.
2018-10-01T12:13:59 < tctw> so I have this hierarchical schematic in altium. now I had to add another level in between and it looks fine, but the hierarchical model in the project file structure is wrong. there are now three levels but the projects overview only shows two. can that be updated manually?
2018-10-01T12:14:13 < zyp> Sadale, that's not a problem
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2018-10-01T12:14:25 < Sadale> It may not be relevant if I'm switching to STM32F030CCT6, tho. It has far more RAM than 4k.
2018-10-01T12:14:30 < zyp> Sadale, the bootloader will just reset the stack pointer right before starting the game
2018-10-01T12:14:54 < Sadale> zyp, ah. I see.
2018-10-01T12:16:52 < zyp> Sadale, you can think of it like this, the bootloader is telling the game at runtime how much ram is reserved
2018-10-01T12:17:12 < Sadale> zyp, I haven't thought about that. I understand what you're saying.
2018-10-01T12:21:21 < zyp> if you wanna go even more hardcore, you could build a dynamic linker into the bootloader, so that the executable code would be linked for the appropriate memory locations when loaded
2018-10-01T12:21:33 < zyp> that way the same game file could run on several different hardwares
2018-10-01T12:22:19 < zyp> assuming, of course, that all io were abstracted through the system library
2018-10-01T12:22:20 < Sadale> oh. I think I've done something similar.
2018-10-01T12:22:38 < Sadale> It's a hack, tho. And it probably isn't elegant.
2018-10-01T12:23:12 < zyp> you'd still run into instruction set differences between v6m, v7m, v7me and v7me+fpu though
2018-10-01T12:23:14 < dongs> http://foon.uk/farcade/ssb/ this is how i imagine Sadale's game
2018-10-01T12:23:41 < Sadale> dongs, take this: Here's what I did. uh, it isn't exactly dynamic. I just define a fixed address for eac
2018-10-01T12:23:46 < Sadale> dongs, take this: https://sadalenet.github.io/poopie/
2018-10-01T12:23:57 < Sadale> zyp, Here's what I did. uh, it isn't exactly dynamic. I just define a fixed address for each library function.
2018-10-01T12:23:59 < dongs> popup blocked
2018-10-01T12:24:04 < dongs> nice try
2018-10-01T12:24:20 < Sadale> dongs, that popup is only shown if you click on the Sadale icon
2018-10-01T12:24:44 < zyp> Sadale, I was thinking more about relocation though
2018-10-01T12:25:20 < Sadale> zyp, and the code reside on the fixed address redirects the PC to the actual address of the function.
2018-10-01T12:26:05 < zyp> that's not really what a dynamic linker does, but sure
2018-10-01T12:26:10 < Sadale> When I update the library functions, the addresses of the functions will be changed. But the address of the "PC redirector" code isn't changed. So the game doesn't require a recompile.
2018-10-01T12:26:15 < Sadale> Right. It isn't dynamic linking.
2018-10-01T12:26:48 < Sadale> I wonder how'd true dynamic linking work in low-end microcontroller like this one.
2018-10-01T12:26:55 < Sadale> like how do you implement one?
2018-10-01T12:27:07 < zyp> what I'm suggesting is that when a game is loaded into memory, the loader could rewrite all memory references to reflect the actual ones
2018-10-01T12:27:37 < zyp> that's what dynamic linking does, and since you'll be putting the entire game in ram, it's easy to rewrite
2018-10-01T12:28:31 < Sadale> zyp, ahhh
2018-10-01T12:28:35 < zyp> file formats like ELF already contains tables of all the memory locations you'd have to rewrite, so in practice it should mainly just be a matter of parsing an elf and rewriting what it tells you to
2018-10-01T12:29:09 < Sadale> zyp, when you said dynamic linking I was thinking about those symbol magic voodoo.
2018-10-01T12:29:22 < Sadale> I guess I was mistaken :3
2018-10-01T12:29:22 < zyp> it's part of it
2018-10-01T12:29:48 < zyp> any references to functions in the system library can also be rewritten to point to where they actually are
2018-10-01T12:29:58 < Sadale> dongs, damn it. Why did you link me that game? I got addicted to it.
2018-10-01T12:30:06 < dongs> heh
2018-10-01T12:30:07 < Sadale> I see :)
2018-10-01T12:30:22 < PaulFertser> Yeah, on modern systems a trick is used which is essentially lazy linking to the system libraries. The actual rewriting happens only after the first call, thanks to PLT.
2018-10-01T12:30:23 < Sadale> zyp, ah. I didn't know that how it really works. It sounds cool! :)
2018-10-01T12:30:45 < Sadale> lol that's mean.
2018-10-01T12:32:15 < Sadale> so am I.
2018-10-01T12:32:18 < Sadale> Not in this channel, tho :p
2018-10-01T12:32:29 < dongs> yea i bet you'rea regular in #animefags
2018-10-01T12:32:32 < Sadale> I'm very active in a parallel channel.
2018-10-01T12:32:41 < dongs> which one is that, #stonertronics?
2018-10-01T12:33:03 < Sadale> dongs, I'll be sure to wait at airport and greet you with anime costume :P
2018-10-01T12:33:18 < Sadale> true programmers love anime :3
2018-10-01T12:33:30 < Sadale> crt, oh. dongs hates anime. I love it.
2018-10-01T12:33:37 < Sadale> crt, that's why the drama xD
2018-10-01T12:34:05 < Sadale> dongs-chan~ Don't be mean to other users here. :3
2018-10-01T12:34:14 < Sadale> crt, oh. anime is just Japanese cartoon.
2018-10-01T12:34:42 < Sadale> what are you looking for him for?
2018-10-01T12:35:44 < Sadale> zyp, Here's a dumb question. If I'm to redirect the interrupt handlers to the game, how do you think I should do that?
2018-10-01T12:36:09 < Sadale> zyp, I think you can come up with a better solution than I do.
2018-10-01T12:36:24 < zyp> switch to a different microcontroller, cortex-m0 doesn't have SCB_VTOR
2018-10-01T12:37:07 < zyp> unless f030 can dynamically remap 0x0 to 0x20000000 after reset, that should also work
2018-10-01T12:37:08 < Sadale> oh. :o
2018-10-01T12:37:27 < Sadale> wow. I didn't even know that vector table offsetinng/remapping was a thing.
2018-10-01T12:37:33 < zyp> i.e. on cortex-m0, vector table is always located at 0x0
2018-10-01T12:37:37 < Sadale> I see.
2018-10-01T12:38:02 < zyp> and stm32 has this thing where 0x0 can be mapped either to flash or ram or system bootloader depending on boot0/boot1 settings at reset
2018-10-01T12:38:11 < Sadale> right.
2018-10-01T12:38:34 < zyp> which in itself doesn't help you, you always wanna boot from flash first
2018-10-01T12:38:50 < Sadale> true
2018-10-01T12:38:54 < zyp> but I think some parts have some bits in SYSCFG or somewhere that lets you change that mapping after boot
2018-10-01T12:39:07 < Sadale> "<zyp> which in itself doesn't help you, you always wanna boot from flash first" < I was about to ask that
2018-10-01T12:39:23 < jpa-> you could theoretically copy the vector table to 0x0, except for the reset vector that you would keep pointing to bootloader; but that only works if the bootloader doesn't use interrupts
2018-10-01T12:39:36 < jpa-> and results in more flash writes
2018-10-01T12:40:48 < zyp> rewriting the first flash page at runtime has a fairly high risk of bricking everything
2018-10-01T12:40:55 < zyp> so I wouldn't recommend
2018-10-01T12:40:59 < jpa-> yeah
2018-10-01T12:41:29 < Sadale> I see :)
2018-10-01T12:41:45 < Sadale> I guess my current solution is rather dumb.
2018-10-01T12:41:56 < jpa-> RM0360 has something relevant on page 44 (Physical remap)
2018-10-01T12:41:57 < zyp> if remapping 0x0 to ram after boot is not possible, I guess the most reasonable approach would be thunks or something
2018-10-01T12:42:18 < jpa-> looks like it supports remapping 0x0 to ram by setting SYSCFG
2018-10-01T12:42:56 < zyp> yeah, there's a MEM_MODE field there
2018-10-01T12:43:30 < Sadale> What's thunks?
2018-10-01T12:43:44 < zyp> a thunk is a small function that just jumps to another function
2018-10-01T12:44:15 < zyp> thunk, trampoline, veneer
2018-10-01T12:44:18 < zyp> there's many names
2018-10-01T12:44:41 < Sadale> ahh.
2018-10-01T12:44:54 < Sadale> Then my solution is that I made thunks.
2018-10-01T12:45:00 < Sadale> I didn't know that it's a word.
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2018-10-01T12:46:22 < jpa-> yeah, you could do something like   void bootloader_irq() { void (*handler)(void) = *(uint32_t*)(MAIN_APP_BASE + (__PSR()&0xFF) * 4); handler(); }   to emulate vector table relocation
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2018-10-01T12:47:04 < karlp> or use l0 instead of f0 and just revel in the patched m0 that is m0+ :)
2018-10-01T12:47:20 < jpa-> or that, but of course the RAM vector table works very well also :)
2018-10-01T12:47:46 < Sadale> What does __PSR() do?
2018-10-01T12:48:53 < zyp> since Sadale would be putting the entire game firmware in ram, having the vector table there isn't weird
2018-10-01T12:49:03 < jpa-> gets the program status register, which contains information about current interrupt number
2018-10-01T12:49:12 < Sadale> ah. Cool!
2018-10-01T12:49:34 < zyp> it's just when you have a more traditional bootloader solution with app firmware starting at 0x8002000 that it's annoying not being able to set SCB_VTOR to 0x8002000
2018-10-01T12:52:54 < Sadale> Aww. There're so much to learn. :3
2018-10-01T12:53:54 < jpa-> hehe, and on F0 there is comparatively little features :P
2018-10-01T12:54:21 < Sadale> true. One of the reasons I picked this one is that it's simple. :P
2018-10-01T12:54:25 < Sadale> (relatively speaking)
2018-10-01T12:55:30 < Sadale> I wonder how many years have you guys worked with embedded programming.
2018-10-01T12:55:53 < karlp> it's mostly just fucking shit up enough times
2018-10-01T12:56:51 < Sadale> I learned much more than I thought I could in this channel.
2018-10-01T12:57:50 < Steffanx> Ty
2018-10-01T12:57:53 < jpa-> it's a strange channel, you learn intricate microcontroller details combined with crappy memes and bad jokes
2018-10-01T12:58:00 < srk> xD
2018-10-01T12:58:14 < Steffanx> And some good/bad life stories.
2018-10-01T12:58:21 < Sadale> lol. Same goes to any other channels :P
2018-10-01T12:58:25 < Sadale> s/to/for/
2018-10-01T12:58:40 < Sadale> Except that you guys are really professional in embedded programming.
2018-10-01T12:59:09 < Sadale> I'm like a god in embedded programming in any other channels I've joined. But in this channel I'm like a dog xD
2018-10-01T12:59:25 < Sadale> me :D
2018-10-01T12:59:26  * Sadale licks Cracki 
2018-10-01T12:59:31 < jpa-> yeah, this channel is little-endian
2018-10-01T12:59:39 < Sadale> lol
2018-10-01T12:59:49  * Sadale woofs Cracki :3
2018-10-01T12:59:57 < dongs> oh, you're a furry too?
2018-10-01T12:59:59 < dongs> plot thickens
2018-10-01T13:00:10 < Sadale> lol I'm not
2018-10-01T13:00:11 < dongs> i mean im not surprised
2018-10-01T13:00:17 < jpa-> you'll fit right in
2018-10-01T13:00:46 < Sadale> I was about to type "/me licks dongs". Upon seeing his username I decided not to hit the enter key.
2018-10-01T13:00:55 < kakimir> hmm I can get free shipping from mouser just by ordering some 100nF caps
2018-10-01T13:01:11 < dongs> wow, you're spending > $50 on parts, kikemir?
2018-10-01T13:01:14 < dongs> the world is ending
2018-10-01T13:01:21 < dongs> Cracki: you buy >$50 in stuff
2018-10-01T13:01:23 < dongs> and get free ship
2018-10-01T13:01:29 < jpa-> kakimir: what will you eat for the rest of the month?
2018-10-01T13:01:30 < Steffanx> 2
2018-10-01T13:01:46 < kakimir> jpa-: company card
2018-10-01T13:02:21 < kakimir> I once spent over 200eurs to project that never completed
2018-10-01T13:02:50 < qyx> only once?
2018-10-01T13:02:50 < dongs> the only project you ever did?
2018-10-01T13:02:52 < dongs> and now youre poor
2018-10-01T13:03:25 < kakimir> it was back in 2009 or so
2018-10-01T13:03:39 < kakimir> fucked up the fpga pins and board
2018-10-01T13:03:50 < kakimir> one board - no spares
2018-10-01T13:04:01 < kakimir> fpga itself was like 40eurs
2018-10-01T13:06:20 < zyp> I'm not even counting how much I'm spending on unfinished projects, but that's not the point either
2018-10-01T13:06:36 < zyp> it's a hobby, you put time and money into something you think is fun
2018-10-01T13:07:24  * karlp laughs at qyx
2018-10-01T13:08:00 < zyp> on the other hand, I've probably sold enough arcins to make up for all the money I've thrown at other stuff
2018-10-01T13:08:58 < karlp> I sold enough beer to cover my beer fridge and kegging gear, then stopped selling it.
2018-10-01T13:09:14 < zyp> hah :)
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2018-10-01T13:14:20 < Steffanx> Only brewing nowadays karlp ?
2018-10-01T13:14:23 < karlp> not even.
2018-10-01T13:14:39 < Steffanx> Awh.
2018-10-01T13:14:41 < karlp> that fridge went to landfill when we moved house.
2018-10-01T13:14:49 < karlp> onl ybrewed a couple of times this year,
2018-10-01T13:15:22 < karlp> wanted to brew on the weekend, using Achillea millefolium, but didn't happen.
2018-10-01T13:15:32 < karlp> weekends are rather unproductive these days
2018-10-01T13:20:31 < Sadale> aww
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2018-10-01T13:24:16 < jadew> https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uENqM_1538352873
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2018-10-01T13:33:46 < cjbaird> Uh, Yarrow. That's around at the moment here (AU). I can drink them? 
2018-10-01T13:34:15 < karlp> you can use it with hops, it gives a funny mouthfeel.
2018-10-01T13:34:24 < karlp> wanted to experiment more,
2018-10-01T13:34:52 < karlp> why is it in flower there now?
2018-10-01T13:35:02 < karlp> it's only just finishing flowering at the moment here.
2018-10-01T13:38:12 < cjbaird> Springtime here, and is established as a wild-growing weed for as long as I can remember. 
2018-10-01T13:40:29 < karlp> it's an autumn flowerer here.
2018-10-01T13:40:48 < karlp> wiki says introduced to aus+nz as feed, not weed.
2018-10-01T13:40:56 < karlp> but would definitely grow as a weed too.
2018-10-01T13:42:31 < cjbaird> I'm recalling it as mostly a 'weed' around farms, so that would explain it. 
2018-10-01T13:50:05 < Steffanx> Where is stvn?
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2018-10-01T13:55:48 < Sadale> oh. One more question to you guys. Just to check if there's a better way to do something again. :P
2018-10-01T13:57:07 < Sadale> I've made an 1-bit audio synth. When the microcontroller switches between sleep mode and run mode, I have to adjust the clock divider to maintain the frequency of the sounds output signal.
2018-10-01T13:57:34 < Sadale> uh
2018-10-01T13:57:36 < Sadale> Brainfart.
2018-10-01T13:57:39 < Sadale> Let me try again.
2018-10-01T13:58:20 < Sadale> I've made an 1-bit audio synth. When the microcontroller switches between 8Mhz core clock and 32Mhz/48Mhz core clock, I have to adjust the clock divider to maintain the frequency of the sounds output signal. For 48Mhz core clock, I also need to adjust the prescaler of the timer.
2018-10-01T13:58:45 < Sadale> There's a brief period of time that the audio signal is distorted because of this switch. How would you deal with it?
2018-10-01T14:00:05 < jpa-> do you have good reasons to switch clocks?
2018-10-01T14:00:10 < Sadale> save power.
2018-10-01T14:00:17 < jpa-> usually it just adds unnecessary complexity
2018-10-01T14:00:31 < jpa-> does it save that much in your use case to be worth it?
2018-10-01T14:00:36 < Sadale> I see. So your suggestion is to stick with 8Mhz. :)
2018-10-01T14:00:43 < cjbaird> It's distorted for 1/f of a second. Wouldn't worry.
2018-10-01T14:00:52 < jpa-> stick with whatever is enough for your usecase
2018-10-01T14:01:04 < Sadale> I see.
2018-10-01T14:01:22 < jpa-> but if you want to switch, it is easier if you can keep APB at constant frequency; then you can do the write to RCC->CFGR instantly, switching the clock source and APB prescaler at the same time
2018-10-01T14:01:36 < Sadale> In fact it does save quite a bit of power. The game console is battery powered.
2018-10-01T14:01:41 < Sadale> I see.
2018-10-01T14:02:34 < Sadale> I have a feeling that it there could be some time taken for the clock switch.
2018-10-01T14:02:52 < Sadale> cjbaird, is right. But it's just weird. If it's really 1/f then I shouldn't be able to notice any distortion at all.
2018-10-01T14:03:28 < jpa-> how are you doing the switch? if you are reconfiguring timer registers, you might be resetting its phase also
2018-10-01T14:04:25 < Sadale> I just change the APB divider and, for 48Mhz, also the prescale of the timer.
2018-10-01T14:04:36 < jpa-> AFAIK there is no delay for RCC->CFGR switch, because the PLL etc. is already ready at that point
2018-10-01T14:05:09 < Sadale> jpa-, I see. Anyway this is what I'm doing for 32Mhz. :)
2018-10-01T14:05:26 < jpa-> so you do the change in one write, changing both clock source and APB divider?
2018-10-01T14:05:27 < cjbaird> You're doing PWM low-pass filtered audio. What comes out of the capacitor to the speaker isn't going to be bothered by a sub-millisecond change of phase.
2018-10-01T14:05:42 < Sadale> Perhaps it takes time to disable the PLL and stuffs. I guess I could resequence the code somehow.
2018-10-01T14:05:56 < Sadale> (disable/enable)
2018-10-01T14:06:33 < Sadale> Anyway the distortion isn't obvious for 32Mhz-8Mhz switching. But for 48Mhz-8Mhz, there's a very apparent distortion :c
2018-10-01T14:06:42 < jpa-> maybe the distortion comes from whatever is updating the timer config, I assume your music is not just a single frequency constantly
2018-10-01T14:07:07 < Sadale> hmm. possibly.
2018-10-01T14:07:29 < Sadale> Maybe that 32Mhz-8Mhz distortion is just an anti-placebo. :P
2018-10-01T14:07:47 < jpa-> scope it?
2018-10-01T14:08:57 < Sadale> Too much work xD
2018-10-01T14:09:02 < jpa-> eh
2018-10-01T14:09:05 < Sadale> I can live with 32Mhz-8Mhz switching :P
2018-10-01T14:09:48 < Sadale> anyway I've got an el cheapo 8ch logic analyzer. I haven't use it yet
2018-10-01T14:19:36 < englishman> super serif brothers is pretty fun
2018-10-01T14:21:28 < karlp> yeah, I had to close it :)
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2018-10-01T14:30:20 < kakimir> value of my 0603 100nF reel rises like bitcoin
2018-10-01T14:30:34 < kakimir> I think I didn't need to hesitate back then when I bought it
2018-10-01T14:33:46 < kakimir> buy one now - it's 0,7eur piece or one is for 0,2eur a piece if I buy quickly
2018-10-01T14:34:00 < kakimir> https://www.mouser.fi/ProductDetail/KEMET/C0603C104K5RACAUTO?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs0AnBnWHyRQDFTY4LDw5b8X4YQtXUjvEA%3d
2018-10-01T14:35:43 < kakimir> there seems to be more availibility if I take epoxy / soft terminals
2018-10-01T14:35:55 < kakimir> any cons using epoxy terminals?
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2018-10-01T15:01:41 < Steffanx> Time to go 0402 or smaller kakimir 
2018-10-01T15:03:36 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-01T15:03:41 < kakimir> but I need 50VDC too
2018-10-01T15:03:52 < Steffanx> Nah. You dont :P
2018-10-01T15:04:13 < kakimir> 0805 is for real men
2018-10-01T15:04:20 < kakimir> or 1210
2018-10-01T15:04:45 < kakimir> I actually did buy 20eur worth of 0402 100nFs
2018-10-01T15:05:10 < kakimir> or was it 30eur
2018-10-01T15:05:23 < Steffanx> Interesting definition of real men you have.
2018-10-01T15:05:33 < kakimir> 200pcs or so - just for prototyping
2018-10-01T15:05:52 < kakimir> I build one proto and it's like -30pcs
2018-10-01T15:07:44 < jpa-> i bought 100pcs of 0603's once.. turns out it was metric 0603's
2018-10-01T15:08:02 < kakimir> I have never made such mistake
2018-10-01T15:08:20 < kakimir> jpa-: but only 100pcs - np
2018-10-01T15:08:39 < kakimir> luckily you didn't click on full reels
2018-10-01T15:08:47 < jpa-> yeah, not like it mattered
2018-10-01T15:08:50 < jpa-> but they are tiny :P
2018-10-01T15:09:41 < kakimir> I have ordered completelly different part though
2018-10-01T15:10:11 < kakimir> search result listed the whole series
2018-10-01T15:10:22 < kakimir> I just picked cheapest one
2018-10-01T15:10:33 < kakimir> then fuufuu my circuit is not working like it should!!
2018-10-01T15:11:28 < kakimir> I actually ended up building my circuit with it
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2018-10-01T15:30:24 < Laurenceb124> my sides https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45703700
2018-10-01T15:30:55 < Laurenceb124> Sandra Harding vindicated
2018-10-01T15:34:28 < dongs> who
2018-10-01T15:37:29 < Laurenceb124>  "Science is the study of raping nature to make it give birth to facts"
2018-10-01T15:37:35 < karlp> if he joins and spams, there's no reason to read teh link.
2018-10-01T15:46:07 < kakimir> jesus
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2018-10-01T16:03:35 < Laurenceb124> tfw https://postimg.cc/RNgBKw1d
2018-10-01T16:05:19 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-01T16:06:13 < Laurenceb124> alba is having an attack of the 'tism https://postimg.cc/BL7T2Y6s
2018-10-01T16:08:30 < Laurenceb124> a u t i s m
2018-10-01T16:08:51 < Laurenceb124> alba is the new chris-chan
2018-10-01T16:09:54 < kakimir> autism is retrending
2018-10-01T16:10:14 < Laurenceb124> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCzZkp5A1jk
2018-10-01T16:10:26 < kakimir> you all have it
2018-10-01T16:11:20 < kakimir> and if you didn't get the joke - you definitelly have it
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2018-10-01T16:24:03 < kakimir> anything that I should add to my mouser order?
2018-10-01T16:24:24 < kakimir> what I can't have enough?
2018-10-01T16:24:58 < aandrew> kakimir: you got enough sma/mcx/mmcx/ufl to BNC pigtails?
2018-10-01T16:25:17 < aandrew> kakimir: how about just stock 100nf caps or discrete LEDs
2018-10-01T16:26:05 < aandrew> kakimir: need an arduino? 
2018-10-01T16:27:44 < qyx> is there an arduino with a sma?
2018-10-01T16:29:02 < Laurenceb124> keek https://press.cern/press-releases/2018/09/statement-cern-stands-diversity
2018-10-01T16:29:13 < Laurenceb124> >workshop on High Energy Theory and Gender
2018-10-01T16:29:15 < Laurenceb124> my sides
2018-10-01T16:32:39 < aandrew> ... high energy theory and gender?
2018-10-01T16:33:03 < aandrew> you definitely need to be high on something to bring gender into it
2018-10-01T16:33:43 < aandrew> I kind of want to see that presentation now
2018-10-01T16:34:19 < kakimir> jesus I accidentally gave money to cern
2018-10-01T16:36:22 < kakimir> will mouser package be here by friday?
2018-10-01T16:36:33 < kakimir> place you bets
2018-10-01T16:42:07 < aandrew> hard to say. Mouser has tradiditonally been shit for me but lately they're almost as good as digikey
2018-10-01T16:42:27 < tctw_> how are people feeling today?
2018-10-01T16:42:28 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-01T16:42:31 < tctw_> give me all your anus
2018-10-01T16:42:41 < dongs> i think you mean give me all your dongs
2018-10-01T16:42:51 < tctw_> <3
2018-10-01T16:44:41 < tctw_> says mr crack
2018-10-01T16:49:54 < qyx> are you antennas diverse anough,
2018-10-01T16:50:50 < dongs> did you just assume your computer's gender
2018-10-01T16:51:37 < dongs> its dyeing.
2018-10-01T16:52:08 < dongs> those are pretty cool
2018-10-01T16:52:16 < dongs> they also come with the usb-micro that can do same
2018-10-01T16:54:15 < dongs> nope, kikecad sucks, im going to bed
2018-10-01T16:54:20 < dongs> need to innovate some garbage tomrorwo
2018-10-01T16:54:47 < dongs> getting tired of one project, gonna move all  low-level code to a lib and expose all the APIs for using teh stuff and let the idiots write thier own highlevel shit the way they want
2018-10-01T16:55:04 < zyp> heh
2018-10-01T16:55:21 < dongs> tired of getting jerked to do this or that for every little shit
2018-10-01T16:55:59 < jpa-> just make it arduino lib
2018-10-01T16:56:38 < Laurenceb124> make muh gui
2018-10-01T16:56:47 < Laurenceb124> muh gui with influxdb interface
2018-10-01T16:56:56 < Laurenceb124> use all the cores on ur xeon server
2018-10-01T16:57:16 < Laurenceb124> ikr
2018-10-01T16:57:28 < Laurenceb124> graphana takes 5 minutes to redraw plots 
2018-10-01T16:57:59 < Laurenceb124> even gnuplot can so same number of datapoints in a few tens of seconds
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2018-10-01T16:59:37 < Laurenceb124> "so amaze plotting system"
2018-10-01T16:59:45 < Laurenceb124> >cant do any processing of data
2018-10-01T16:59:52 < Laurenceb124> >gnuplot is ten times more flexible
2018-10-01T17:03:28 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2018-10-01T17:05:50 < aandrew> < Cracki> dying its copper heat sink fins in rainbow colors
2018-10-01T17:05:51 < aandrew> lol
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2018-10-01T17:13:55 < qyx> Cracki: you mix influx and grafana
2018-10-01T17:14:40 < qyx> and you are full of rage
2018-10-01T17:14:45 < qyx> to those kind people making opensores
2018-10-01T17:17:04 < englishman> im supposed to be dicknplacing all day but this stupid non-work like talking to people and paperwork and shit is taking ALL my time
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2018-10-01T17:44:33 < Ecco> Hi guys :)
2018-10-01T17:45:04 < Ecco> I'm looking for a LAN switch. RELIABLE, 8 ports, managed, PoE.
2018-10-01T17:45:06 < Ecco> What would you recommend?
2018-10-01T17:45:25 < Ecco> (12 ports could be nice)
2018-10-01T17:45:32 < Ecco> (and goes without saying, gigabit)
2018-10-01T17:45:58 < Ecco> that's for a place I won't go more that once a year, so I need something *solid*
2018-10-01T17:46:20 < karlp> what does "managed" mean to you.
2018-10-01T17:46:36 < Ecco> karlp: well, anything more than dumb switch
2018-10-01T17:46:38 < karlp> and POE to the switch, or for all ports from the switch
2018-10-01T17:46:39 < Ecco> I want to have vlans
2018-10-01T17:46:52 < Ecco> switch is the power supply for PoE
2018-10-01T17:47:00 < Ecco> (I want to attach 8 wifi aps)
2018-10-01T17:47:19 < Ecco> :-D
2018-10-01T17:47:55 < qyx> first, what APs do you want to attach
2018-10-01T17:48:09 < Ecco> qyx: probably cheap second-hand Cisco ones
2018-10-01T17:48:36 < Ecco> I know that many people swear by UniFi, but I've had good experience with Cisco APs
2018-10-01T17:48:53 < Ecco> (I'm looking for a really dumb setup really, each AP having its own network)
2018-10-01T17:49:22 < Ecco> Actually, the whole picture is very simple : one fiber internet access, 8 appartments
2018-10-01T17:49:38 < Ecco> people don't care about RJ45
2018-10-01T17:50:18 < qyx> then people don't care about cisco either
2018-10-01T17:50:35 < qyx> I would recommend mikrotik hap lite or such
2018-10-01T17:50:48 < qyx> they also have rotuers with poe outputs for such settings
2018-10-01T17:51:10 < qyx> instead of using some old cisco trash 5 years old
2018-10-01T17:51:24 < Ecco> qyx: indeed they definitely don't, but I do
2018-10-01T17:51:29 < invzim> Ecco: check out huawei
2018-10-01T17:51:32 < Ecco> and Cisco gear has terrific MTBF
2018-10-01T17:51:43 < invzim> better build quality than ubiquiti
2018-10-01T17:51:44 < Ecco> Well, I've tried tons of gear from cheap manufacturers
2018-10-01T17:51:47 < invzim> in my experience
2018-10-01T17:51:55 < Ecco> most APs need to be rebooted once every few months
2018-10-01T17:52:23 < Ecco> not an issue for consumer-grade hardware. Really annoying otherwise.
2018-10-01T17:53:56 < qyx> then I would recommend a cisco 8 port PoE switch
2018-10-01T17:54:05 < qyx> exactly as you requested
2018-10-01T17:55:18 < invzim> http://www.router-switch.com/s2700-9tp-pwr-ei-p-5606.html
2018-10-01T17:55:21 < Ecco> yeah, I guess
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2018-10-01T18:29:32 < tomeaton17> >Pay 9 grand to go to uni
2018-10-01T18:29:39 < tomeaton17> >First tutorial question:  It is suggested that the national weather report should be based on
2018-10-01T18:29:39 < tomeaton17> what Queen Elizabeth II is wearing when she goes to the corner shop (Harrods) in a
2018-10-01T18:29:39 < tomeaton17> morning to get the milk for her cornflakes. Suggest limitations of this suggestion.
2018-10-01T18:32:28 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip68-3-245-224.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-01T18:33:23 < tomeaton17> EEE at manchester
2018-10-01T18:34:00 < tomeaton17> You wont believe it.
2018-10-01T18:34:07 < tomeaton17> Digital systems design 1
2018-10-01T18:36:31 < karlp> well, she's the queen.
2018-10-01T18:36:39 < karlp> also, the frog wouldn't be fetching milkl
2018-10-01T18:38:32 < karlp> this girl knows the weather thouhg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCS88inG5b0
2018-10-01T18:39:44 < tomeaton17> The whole tutorial is based on this "clothezometer". apparently after consideration the exercise shouldn't be considered ridiculous :p
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2018-10-01T19:05:22 < BrainDamage> here you go tomeaton17: https://ptpb.pw/KQdG.jpg your chance to shine and demonstrate that the 9 grand are useless
2018-10-01T19:06:09 < tomeaton17> BrainDamage, sorry I only know how to measure temperature by amount of clothing 
2018-10-01T19:07:46 < Ultrasauce> you can tell if it's raining too
2018-10-01T19:08:16 < BrainDamage> it's raining a storm here
2018-10-01T19:09:31  * emeb is directly in the path of a hurricane due to make landfall today.
2018-10-01T19:09:59 < dongs> https://energyxpower.com/battery-demonstration/ this is so retarded it hurts
2018-10-01T19:10:03 < qyx> it is starting to rain here too
2018-10-01T19:10:06 < karlp> I don't think emeb's in kansas^h^h^h AZ anymore chan
2018-10-01T19:10:16 < qyx> huh, hilight
2018-10-01T19:10:23 < emeb> karlp: hrhr
2018-10-01T19:10:32 < qyx> ener-gyx-power
2018-10-01T19:10:41 < dongs> lolwatr
2018-10-01T19:10:45 < dongs> you got highlighted over that?
2018-10-01T19:11:06 < qyx> of course, thats for people who cannot see the difference between "q" and "g"
2018-10-01T19:13:00 < dongs> that HAS to be a lunix problem
2018-10-01T19:14:20 < BrainDamage> today I learned that dyslexia can be spelled lunix
2018-10-01T19:18:21 < antto> today i didn't learn anything
2018-10-01T19:21:47 < Streaker> my balls are itchy
2018-10-01T19:21:56 < Streaker> there you go.
2018-10-01T19:23:15 < antto> this is a chunk of information i did not wanted to know
2018-10-01T19:23:43 < jpa-> for a moment i thought it was Steffanx not Streaker 
2018-10-01T19:23:58 < jpa-> no-one's interested in Streaker's balls, though
2018-10-01T19:24:02 < antto> that won't change anything
2018-10-01T19:24:06 < Steffanx> My balls are itchy.
2018-10-01T19:24:53 < antto> something something fungus something something
2018-10-01T19:25:51 < Steffanx> ##stm32ungus
2018-10-01T19:31:27 < Steffanx> Toe cheese Cracki
2018-10-01T19:32:25 < Steffanx> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Toe%20Cheese in case you forgot what it was
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2018-10-01T19:34:26 < Steffanx> He's alive \o/
2018-10-01T19:36:28 < Thorn> the shipment of purr has arrived https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0jBSWOnjLM
2018-10-01T19:37:03 < Steffanx> Perfect material for a coat.
2018-10-01T19:52:24 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyWVaZsUQjc
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2018-10-01T19:58:23 < Steffanx> Im sorry, i never enjoyed The Simpsons.
2018-10-01T19:58:30 < Steffanx> Neither do i watch South Park.
2018-10-01T19:58:46 < Steffanx> (just to name a few boring cartoons)
2018-10-01T20:00:17 < emeb> ty Thorn
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2018-10-01T20:16:54 < kakimir> try Rick and Morty
2018-10-01T20:16:59 < dongs> don't.
2018-10-01T20:17:17 < dongs> shit and morty is exactly same unfunny american tripe like simpsons or south park
2018-10-01T20:17:20 < dongs> infact, its actualyl worse
2018-10-01T20:17:32 < dongs> so if you didn't enjoy those 2, you will definitely not enjoy that shit
2018-10-01T20:21:08 < Steffanx> crt, did you know bitmask is alive?
2018-10-01T20:21:25 < bitmask> no I'm not
2018-10-01T20:22:41 < dongs> is he?
2018-10-01T20:22:54 < Steffanx> He just said he's not. And bitmask knows best
2018-10-01T20:23:02 < emeb> reports of bitmask's life are greatly exaggerated
2018-10-01T20:23:05 < dongs> thats not what your question said tho
2018-10-01T20:23:15 < dongs> infact it wasn't a question
2018-10-01T20:23:17 < dongs> it was a statement
2018-10-01T20:23:36 < dongs> if you were asking crt about bitmask well-being
2018-10-01T20:23:39 < dongs> you'd write something like
2018-10-01T20:23:48 < dongs> crt, do you know IF bitmask is alive?
2018-10-01T20:23:59 < emeb> pedantic dongs is pedantic
2018-10-01T20:24:16 < dongs> the way you said it sounds like you have insider information about bitmaks
2018-10-01T20:24:16 < Steffanx> No, i asked if crt knew that bitmask  is alive.
2018-10-01T20:24:29 < Steffanx> and since bitmask is here, he could've known.
2018-10-01T20:24:29 < dongs> and are confirming if crt is aware of his alive status
2018-10-01T20:24:33 < bitmask> my entering of the channel provided said information
2018-10-01T20:24:39 < dongs> oh lewl
2018-10-01T20:24:41 < dongs> ok ihbt
2018-10-01T20:24:46 < dongs> back to bed i go
2018-10-01T20:24:52 < Steffanx> hah, sleep well dongs.
2018-10-01T20:25:08 < qyx> are you moonwaling or waht
2018-10-01T20:25:14 < dongs> i'm monetizing
2018-10-01T20:25:26 < bitmask> what size motor do you need to drill fr4?
2018-10-01T20:25:28 < Steffanx> crt you shouldnt sleep with your phone so close to you. Especially not when you can irc.
2018-10-01T20:25:43 < Steffanx> It's fucking 3.25
2018-10-01T20:25:46 < Steffanx> whut.
2018-10-01T20:26:15 < dongs> 2.25
2018-10-01T20:26:24 < dongs> Steffanx: i havent irc'd from phone in years
2018-10-01T20:26:31 < dongs> thre's no mobile client that ist not fucking cancer
2018-10-01T20:26:34 < dongs> i'm at my desk
2018-10-01T20:26:55 < Steffanx> Same desk as crt's desk?
2018-10-01T20:26:58 < dongs> http://pbx.mine.nu/huhuirc/huhuirc.jpg this is like the last irc client i used on mobile
2018-10-01T20:27:44 < Steffanx> Looks almost like my quassel client on my phone
2018-10-01T20:27:52 < dongs>  Dec 28  2004 huhuirc.jpg
2018-10-01T20:27:52 < Steffanx> i dont hate it.
2018-10-01T20:28:10 < Steffanx> Dont you sometimes irc while biking?
2018-10-01T20:28:19 < zyp> problem with irc on mobile is that typing on mobile is tedious
2018-10-01T20:28:23 < dongs> not since i ignored o6
2018-10-01T20:28:27 < dongs> yes, what zyp said
2018-10-01T20:28:28 < dongs> its annoying as shit
2018-10-01T20:29:06 < zyp> I sometimes use irssi connectbot to check irc from mobile, but mostly only when I need to check something or are bored without my laptop
2018-10-01T20:29:36 < dongs> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_Runtime_Environment_for_Wireless huhuirc was written in this shit
2018-10-01T20:29:43 < dongs> which is basically C with some weirdfuck runtime
2018-10-01T20:29:55 < dongs> and all code must be compiled as ReadOnlyPositionIndependent
2018-10-01T20:30:20 < dongs> and i had a pal at qualcomm who bummed me a signing key
2018-10-01T20:30:36 < dongs> otherwise it was osmething like $400/year
2018-10-01T20:30:38 < Steffanx> The good old times.
2018-10-01T20:30:43 < dongs> and people bitch about apple developer shit being expensive
2018-10-01T20:30:56 < dongs> the real scam was the featurephone shit
2018-10-01T20:31:36 < dongs> k zzz
2018-10-01T20:31:41 < Steffanx>  \
2018-10-01T20:31:44 < Steffanx>  \o
2018-10-01T20:34:30 < Steffanx> 2. Good morning stvn
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2018-10-01T21:02:40 < catphish> morning humans
2018-10-01T21:07:05 < Steffanx> Welcome catphish
2018-10-01T21:08:00 < qyx> how's your times going
2018-10-01T21:08:07 < catphish> my times are going fun
2018-10-01T21:09:17 < catphish> i hope i've committed to a design now
2018-10-01T21:09:33 < Steffanx> lol, hopeless hope.
2018-10-01T21:09:51 < catphish> lol
2018-10-01T21:11:22 < catphish> looking forward to being able to focus on software without running into hardware design screwups :)
2018-10-01T21:11:34 < catphish> this may never happen, we'll see
2018-10-01T21:11:47 < catphish> i'm enjoying this process though, have come a long way
2018-10-01T21:13:06 < catphish> i feel like i have been monopolizing time here, no idea what anyone else is working on :)
2018-10-01T21:14:07 < Steffanx> here = ##stm32?
2018-10-01T21:14:33 < catphish> yes
2018-10-01T21:19:02 < Ultrasauce> solipsism is recommended by 1/1 accredited IRC-EEs
2018-10-01T21:30:16 -!- tkoskine_ is now known as tkoskine
2018-10-01T21:38:16 < Steffanx> deep learning. That will be an A+, because the buzzz word is there.
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2018-10-01T21:54:53 < englishman> attention ##stm32
2018-10-01T21:55:05 < englishman> https://www.worksonmymachine.pro/ experienced unexpected downtime today due to an expired TLS cert.
2018-10-01T21:55:13 < englishman> It has been renewed and the site is again fully functional.
2018-10-01T21:55:27 < englishman> Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. Resume normal trolling.
2018-10-01T22:01:01 < Ultrasauce> shouldnt you have just rolled back your pc clock
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2018-10-01T22:29:04 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2018-10-01T22:29:47 -!- con3 [~kvirc@ml.sun.ac.za] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.9.2 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/]
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2018-10-01T22:38:14 < Steffanx> Isnt you lets encrypt cert updated automagically englishman 
2018-10-01T22:41:40 < Steffanx> ya, lunix command line is scary
2018-10-01T22:44:21 < englishman> this shitty low cost host doesn't support auto TLS upload so it would be manual anyway
2018-10-01T22:45:05 < englishman> you used to have to email them
2018-10-01T22:47:47 < Steffanx> ty
2018-10-01T22:51:59 < Steffanx> Fuck hats.
2018-10-01T22:59:10 < emeb> you say that now, but what about when you need some protection from rain and sun?
2018-10-01T23:02:24 < zyp> I like traefik, handles let's encrypt and all that stuff without much configuration
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2018-10-01T23:02:56 < Steffanx> You own a nice fisher hat emeb ?
2018-10-01T23:03:58 < Steffanx> You run that at home zyp ?
2018-10-01T23:04:29 < emeb> Steffanx: is this a fisher hat? https://untappd.akamaized.net/photo/2015_07_21/a02bc99cb59f8e2838db0f969dc6e4d0_320x320.jpg
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2018-10-01T23:05:09 < emeb> oops "fischer"
2018-10-01T23:05:29 < zyp> Steffanx, yeah
2018-10-01T23:05:33 < Steffanx> was more thinking about http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EQ3ILq_MuVc/UB8aZDcE9YI/AAAAAAAADKU/gEs1ELJjrtM/s1600/IMG_9460edit.jpg emeb
2018-10-01T23:13:09 < emeb> Steffanx: A Gilligan hat!
2018-10-01T23:13:24 < emeb> Yes, I have one like that, only green. Good for yard work.
2018-10-01T23:13:32 < Steffanx> i knew it.
2018-10-01T23:13:48 < Steffanx> the old men hat D:
2018-10-01T23:14:33 < emeb> Steffanx: and one of these for hiking: https://www.davidmorgan.com/shop/images/1613fwn_lg6.jpg
2018-10-01T23:16:26 < Steffanx> Indiana jones style
2018-10-01T23:16:40 < emeb> 'struth.
2018-10-01T23:17:27 < emeb> one does not fuck with the sun in AZ.
2018-10-01T23:27:38 < Steffanx> cdonalds?
2018-10-01T23:43:58 < emeb> Whenever I'm in Silicon Valley and I drive down Hwy 101 I see this -> https://www.flickr.com/photos/spacekitten/53630051
2018-10-01T23:44:11 < emeb> Sounds like something Homer Simpson would say.
2018-10-01T23:48:12 < emeb> need better ones?
2018-10-01T23:49:26 < emeb> metal film - audiophools love it
2018-10-01T23:54:05 < Steffanx> 0.01%?
2018-10-01T23:54:15 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@chl26-1-88-183-104-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2018-10-01T23:54:24 < antto> moar zeros!
2018-10-01T23:54:31 < antto> 0.01000000000% \o/
2018-10-01T23:55:17 < emeb> it's not just about accuracy - it's about nonlinearity.
2018-10-01T23:55:54 < antto> louder peaks! blacker blacks! but balanced and warm mids
2018-10-01T23:56:02 < emeb> thick-film SMT resistors have a voltage-dependent resistance that causes distortion.
--- Day changed Tue Oct 02 2018
2018-10-02T00:01:30 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/gallery/S8DxffI purrfect
2018-10-02T00:03:56 < emeb> cat thing
2018-10-02T00:17:15 < kakimir> that is funny
2018-10-02T00:18:11 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-02T00:19:23 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaNQ4mv9XfE
2018-10-02T00:19:32 < kakimir> musics
2018-10-02T00:19:51 < kakimir> ehm.. maybe?
2018-10-02T00:20:32 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQF6x_FgnJ0 countermusics
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2018-10-02T00:21:19 < antto> i thought the opposite of music is autistic modular synthesizer "improvisation" sessions
2018-10-02T00:21:37 < Ultrasauce> excuse me that is the pinnacle of art
2018-10-02T00:21:59 < antto> right
2018-10-02T00:22:11 < antto> with fancy video recording for complete effect
2018-10-02T00:23:52 < Steffanx> I dont like your negarive attitude antto.
2018-10-02T00:24:16 -!- chipant [~chipant@27.34.104.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
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2018-10-02T00:25:09 < antto> take a photograph of it and watch the negative
2018-10-02T00:26:37 < Steffanx> Idk crt.
2018-10-02T00:27:05 < Steffanx> I do know https://youtu.be/QBSELrm2-g0
2018-10-02T00:27:42 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rywUtsLSI4 musics timemachine to 2007
2018-10-02T00:28:07 < kakimir> now say you don't approve this sick synth jam?
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2018-10-02T00:29:30 < antto> meh
2018-10-02T00:30:41 < kakimir> 2007 that was dope for me at least
2018-10-02T00:32:32 < Steffanx> Could be worse kakimir :)
2018-10-02T00:33:03 < kakimir> it was the time I was into Jean Michel Jarre and Vangelis
2018-10-02T00:33:35 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-02T00:33:45 < antto> bloh
2018-10-02T00:34:25 < Steffanx> Back in the time i used JM Jarre - oxygen part 4 as wake up alarm
2018-10-02T00:34:34 < kakimir> sweet
2018-10-02T00:34:34 < Steffanx> I like that part
2018-10-02T00:34:41 < antto> 2008: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0rMtjCl-Lk
2018-10-02T00:34:41 < kakimir> well who doesn't?
2018-10-02T00:35:15 < Steffanx> Is ronald jenkees still alive?
2018-10-02T00:35:16 < antto> epic stereo eargasm
2018-10-02T00:35:25 < Steffanx> "Hello youtubes!"
2018-10-02T00:35:29 < kakimir> wait.. ronald jenkees!
2018-10-02T00:36:08 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O2aH4XLbto
2018-10-02T00:36:39 < Steffanx> I liked https://youtu.be/smE-uIljiGo more
2018-10-02T00:37:18 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-02T00:37:40 < kakimir> Steffanx: so we liked same musics at one time
2018-10-02T00:37:59 < Steffanx> Although i liked the outro even more
2018-10-02T00:38:06 < Steffanx> I still like it kakimir :)
2018-10-02T00:38:14 < kakimir> then another of us got astray
2018-10-02T00:38:20 < kakimir> ;)
2018-10-02T00:39:42 < kakimir> I listen only degenerate musics nowdays.. more shit is the shit
2018-10-02T00:40:30 < antto> i listen to noice trackz only
2018-10-02T00:43:38 < antto> why dafuq is that guy waring a winter hat?
2018-10-02T00:43:49 < antto> * wearing
2018-10-02T00:45:28 < kakimir> because of coolness
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2018-10-02T00:45:41 < antto> oh, right.. of course
2018-10-02T00:45:44 < antto> uh oh
2018-10-02T00:45:56  * antto hides under his umbrella
2018-10-02T00:48:02 < Laurenceb124> https://mobile.twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1046825778539888640
2018-10-02T00:54:48 < Laurenceb124> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-45703552
2018-10-02T01:03:21 < Laurenceb124> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c_NyUhOZ8erdqU2AGZJZtNfFeA91Kefj/view
2018-10-02T01:03:25 < Laurenceb124> le epic trollage
2018-10-02T01:08:21 < mawk> le + vowel = l'
2018-10-02T01:08:25 < mawk> l'epic trollage
2018-10-02T01:09:03 < BrainDamage> please don't think for a second he's actually applying higher cognition when he writes those
2018-10-02T01:09:42 < BrainDamage> he's just regurgitating copypasted sentence changing a couple words like a template generator seeking for approval and amusement from his peers
2018-10-02T01:10:41 < BrainDamage> now if only the links would be actually funny or interesting, instead it's the usual pointless drivel driven into a ground of mediocrity and monotony
2018-10-02T01:14:04 < BrainDamage> they often can be summed up as "X has attention for being a drama-whore publishing made up content that leverages social drama" except the content is nearly always the same, and it hints a bit of jelousy for not achieving notoriety on his own despite putting more or less genuine efforts ( doubtful given his own comments on the channel )
2018-10-02T01:15:28 < BrainDamage> and when it's not, it's just meme material that has very little in common with the channel userbase because they are 4chan and similar places inner jokes which require extreme familiary with the moderately toxic content that circulates those boards
2018-10-02T01:17:45 < Ultrasauce> that's an awfully verbose way to say https://i.imgur.com/T0e5ne0.jpg
2018-10-02T01:18:14  * karlp hi5s ultrasauce
2018-10-02T01:18:30 < Ultrasauce> I take it we gave up on the whole +b thing?
2018-10-02T01:18:47 < BrainDamage>  _   _       _      __                           _                                          ______ | \ | |     | |    / _|                         | |                                         | ___ \|  \| | ___ | |_  | |_ _   _ _ __  _ __  _   _  | |     __ _ _   _ _ __ ___ _ __   ___ ___  | |_/ /| . ` |/ _ \| __| |  _| | | | '_ \| '_ \| | | | | |    / _` | | | | '__/ _ \ '_ \ / __/ _ \ | ___ \| |\  | (_) | |_  | | | |_| | | | | | | | |_|
2018-10-02T01:18:48 < BrainDamage>  | | |___| (_| | |_| | | |  __/ | | | (_|  __/ | |_/ /\_| \_/\___/ \__| |_|  \__,_|_| |_|_| |_|\__, | \_____/\__,_|\__,_|_|  \___|_| |_|\___\___| \____/                                           __/ |                                                                                             |___/                                                     
2018-10-02T01:19:01 < Ultrasauce> it's beautiful
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2018-10-02T01:31:02 < BrainDamage> +b stands for blaxter mode
2018-10-02T01:31:02 -!- gnom [~aleksande@178.150.7.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-02T01:32:19 < Laurenceb124> | | |___| (_| | |_| | | |  __/ | | | (_|  __/ 
2018-10-02T01:32:24 < Laurenceb124> literally wut
2018-10-02T01:33:49 < Laurenceb124> u fail at btfo-ing
2018-10-02T01:33:53 < antto> it's truncated line of code from the matrix which was faxed but agents cut the line
2018-10-02T01:34:48 < Laurenceb124> ah
2018-10-02T01:35:37 < antto> they should've used le pastebin
2018-10-02T01:36:04 < Laurenceb124> this pdf is even more lulzy than I was expecting
2018-10-02T01:36:07 < BrainDamage> that completely negates the point of wall-of-text ascii art
2018-10-02T01:36:38 < BrainDamage> failure to delivery is a preferrable alternative to medium relay
2018-10-02T01:36:52 < antto> i guess it's "widescreen ascii" but i'm on 5:4 and it looks like sh*t
2018-10-02T01:37:00 < Laurenceb124> ur M-F symmetry is broken
2018-10-02T01:38:01 < emeb> can't we all just get along?
2018-10-02T01:38:50 < antto> nuh
2018-10-02T01:38:58 < Laurenceb124> wtf this pdf is actually non troll past the first two pages
2018-10-02T01:39:11 < antto> inposhiburu
2018-10-02T01:40:49 < Laurenceb124> apart from the fact he uses "big data" to search for the sexism
2018-10-02T01:42:56 < Laurenceb124> kek @ error bars on the sexism axis
2018-10-02T01:49:52 < Laurenceb124> ywlts first year physics undergrads do lab work to measure the sexism
2018-10-02T01:51:28 < Laurenceb124> wew page 23
2018-10-02T01:52:29 < karlp> someone kick him please
2018-10-02T01:52:40 < karlp> we don't need your monolog on your own spammed bullshit
2018-10-02T01:53:48 < Laurenceb124> *monologs internally*
2018-10-02T01:54:06 < emeb> unappreciated monology
2018-10-02T01:54:32 < emeb> should that be spelled monologue?
2018-10-02T01:54:44 < emeb> (for added hoity-toityness)
2018-10-02T01:54:44 < Laurenceb124> tfw too stuuupid 2 english
2018-10-02T01:56:18 < emeb> tfw too 'murican to english
2018-10-02T01:56:44 < BrainDamage> english (tradictional), english (simplified)
2018-10-02T01:57:46 < emeb> english - the new lingua franca
2018-10-02T01:59:27 < karlp> yeah, monologue would have been better 
2018-10-02T02:03:02 < Laurenceb124> https://pastebin.com/zvmBWAcc
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2018-10-02T02:07:03 < emeb> fragile masculinity
2018-10-02T02:08:31 < Laurenceb124> toxic
2018-10-02T02:08:54  * Laurenceb124 grabs the popcorn and heads to reddit
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2018-10-02T02:25:07 < sync> karlp: more like monololgue
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2018-10-02T02:31:03 < emeb> hrhr
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2018-10-02T02:45:17 < Laurenceb124> reddit is so much moar fun to troll
2018-10-02T02:52:15 < Ultrasauce> http://xn--d-bga.su/troll.jpg
2018-10-02T02:52:19 < Ultrasauce> er png
2018-10-02T02:53:10 < BrainDamage> do you still have the jelly?
2018-10-02T02:53:50 < Ultrasauce> fj.jpg
2018-10-02T02:54:38 < BrainDamage> excellent
2018-10-02T02:54:50 < Ultrasauce> you're set for the evening eh
2018-10-02T02:55:10 < BrainDamage> nah, just adding to my reaction list
2018-10-02T02:57:13 < karlp> nice xdn too.
2018-10-02T02:57:38 < karlp> wow, that fj.jpg is... special
2018-10-02T02:58:51 < BrainDamage> honestly, it should have been hurrr.durrr
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2018-10-02T03:02:14 < Laurenceb124> no homo
2018-10-02T03:03:59 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb124: : maybe you read all the feminist rhetoric because you find your sexuality repressed and you hope for the speech that would finally make the bullies stop beating you
2018-10-02T03:04:28 < BrainDamage> would also explain why you have to constantly remind others how you're not a homo
2018-10-02T03:05:09 < Laurenceb124> because u liek the dick pronz
2018-10-02T03:05:39 < Laurenceb124> inb4 u post cp and say I'm a projecting pedo
2018-10-02T03:06:04 < BrainDamage> bleh, why do I even bother insulting you when all you can come with is "no u"
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2018-10-02T03:59:55 < aandrew> https://www.arm.com/company/news/2018/10/arm-expands-design-possibilities-with-free-cortex-m-processors-for-xilinx-fpgas
2018-10-02T03:59:58 < aandrew> interesting
2018-10-02T04:01:15 < dongs> are tehy trying to fight back riscv
2018-10-02T04:01:25 < aandrew> I think so
2018-10-02T04:01:36 < dongs> Reduced time-to-market: access to an extensive software ecosystem and knowledge base of others designing on Arm, which includes Arm Keil MDK, a full-featured software development suite for Arm-based microcontrollers
2018-10-02T04:01:40 < dongs> yissss
2018-10-02T04:01:42 < aandrew> I have a strong feeling that riscv will be making a hell of an impact as it matures
2018-10-02T04:01:54 < dongs> well, chinks are already using it in random clonechips
2018-10-02T04:01:59 < aandrew> of course they are
2018-10-02T04:02:00 < dongs> as onboard mcu
2018-10-02T04:02:43 < aandrew> yep why not
2018-10-02T04:02:49 < aandrew> it's free, it's decent
2018-10-02T04:05:32 < Thorn> how many luts/dffs will that thing eat
2018-10-02T04:06:25 < dongs> people always had access to fpga versions of the stuff from arm, it just wasn't free
2018-10-02T04:06:28 < Thorn> inb4 hackaday.com/trying-out-free-cortex-on-a-zynq lol
2018-10-02T04:06:33 < dongs> and those usually ran on like virtex or atrix shits 
2018-10-02T04:06:36 < dongs> that are $10k/chi[p
2018-10-02T04:06:38 < Thorn> yeah cortex-m1?
2018-10-02T04:11:57 < Laurenceb124> Strumia's slides contain a collection of half-baked claims, I consider his talk offensive on many levels.
2018-10-02T04:12:03 < Laurenceb124> I liek dis copypasta
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2018-10-02T04:24:40 < emeb_mac> why would you do soft mcu on zynq?
2018-10-02T04:24:49 < emeb_mac> maybe on artix or spartan
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2018-10-02T04:31:59 < ds2> Mmmmm soft mcu on zynq....and soft FPGA on Sitara :D
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2018-10-02T04:40:04 < aandrew> ds2: heh
2018-10-02T04:41:18 < emeb_mac> ds2: you're funny
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2018-10-02T04:52:09 < machinehum> hi
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2018-10-02T04:57:47 < ds2> it adds to security
2018-10-02T04:58:22 < ds2> everyone would expect to see arm code on a zynq... but if you have a soft MIPS ;)
2018-10-02T05:01:41 < emeb_mac> headfake
2018-10-02T05:04:34 < Thorn> does it make sense to use an analog switch to multiples adc inputs if the adc is single channel?
2018-10-02T05:04:56 < machinehum> No analog mux on the part?
2018-10-02T05:05:06 < emeb_mac> sure
2018-10-02T05:05:16 < machinehum> Also they sell analog multiplexers
2018-10-02T05:05:36 < machinehum> I would use that, then you don't need a bunch of analog switched
2018-10-02T05:05:47 < Thorn> 10 pages of tl431 clones (sort by price, cheap first) https://lcsc.com/products/Voltage-References_486.html
2018-10-02T05:05:50 < machinehum> switches
2018-10-02T05:11:43 < machinehum> What is this LCSC?
2018-10-02T05:12:02 < machinehum> Counterfiet?
2018-10-02T05:17:13 < Thorn> Remark: For best performance, select VREFP and VREFN at the same voltage levels as VDD and VSS. When selecting VREFP and VREFN different from VDD and VSS, ensure that the voltage midpoints are the same: (VREFP-VREFN)/2 + VREFN = VDD/2
2018-10-02T05:17:25 < dongs> machinehum: nah just legit chinese shit
2018-10-02T05:17:26 < Thorn> what is the point of having vref inputs at all then
2018-10-02T05:33:24 < aandrew> quiet rails?
2018-10-02T05:34:18 < dongs> quiet ruby on rails
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2018-10-02T05:38:02 < machinehum> nice
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2018-10-02T05:56:40 < emeb_mac> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTc3PsW5ghQ
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2018-10-02T06:06:48 < dongs> the fuck
2018-10-02T06:08:57 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCHKIdup5Lo all you have to do is press a couple of buttons
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2018-10-02T06:11:54 < Ultrasauce> just a bunch of wires and stuff
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2018-10-02T06:27:51 < aandrew> https://i.redd.it/t3nf3k1ionp11.png
2018-10-02T06:35:36 < emeb_mac> neighbors cringe
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2018-10-02T07:24:12 < jlstrauss> Hi folks, I'm looking at an application not that talks about driving stereo pdm mic's from I2S by outputting the I2S clock to a timer input, which divides by 2 and then outputs to each mic. I'm not sure how to configure the timer to be driven by the clock? 
2018-10-02T07:29:47 < dongs> uh
2018-10-02T07:31:26 < dongs> https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/ecosystems/stm32-open-development-environment/stm32-nucleo-expansion-boards/stm32-ode-sense-hw/x-nucleo-cca02m1.html
2018-10-02T07:31:31 < dongs> have you looked at how this is done
2018-10-02T07:31:38 < dongs> i don't think you need to fuck with timers in order to have multiple pdm mics
2018-10-02T07:31:52 < dongs> there's 2 ST mics on there
2018-10-02T07:31:58 < dongs> and schematics/code to making them work
2018-10-02T07:47:06 < emeb_mac> "outputs to each mic"
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2018-10-02T07:51:35 < dongs> yeah so why?
2018-10-02T07:52:17 < jlstrauss> Hi apologies i'm back
2018-10-02T07:54:58 < jlstrauss> I'm going to ultimately be connecting 4xstereo mic's. That nucleo board is set up for using the DFSDM peripheral which doesn't need a separate timer but can only handle 2xstereo
2018-10-02T07:55:35 < jlstrauss> If you look at the manual for that board it shows the option for using the I2S interface and for that you need a separate timer
2018-10-02T07:55:52 < jlstrauss> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/user_manual/88/5d/3e/6d/9c/ae/42/de/DM00187403.pdf/files/DM00187403.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00187403.pdf (section 2.2.2)
2018-10-02T07:56:48 < jlstrauss> You set the I2S peripheral up for twice the samplerate you want, then you put the clock output from I2S into a timer (TIMx_CHIN) that divides by two
2018-10-02T07:56:56 < jlstrauss> this is the bit I'm getting stuck on setting up
2018-10-02T07:57:41 < jlstrauss> emeb_mac: When I say "outputs to each mic" I meant the timer then provides the clock output to each mic
2018-10-02T07:57:54 < emeb_mac> yep
2018-10-02T07:58:09 < emeb_mac> seems like the link dongs posted is the thing to understand
2018-10-02T08:01:47 < jlstrauss> I'm reading through it now.. It seems to be indicating that I physically wire the I2S clock output to the timer input! I thought there would be an internal routing feature
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2018-10-02T09:51:32 < dongs> https://twitter.com/IBM/status/1040115610108272641 aids
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2018-10-02T10:35:30 < jadew``> https://i.imgur.com/7qGBuEh_d.jpg
2018-10-02T10:35:34 < jadew``> https://i.imgur.com/4XtXJ7H_d.jpg
2018-10-02T10:36:09 < jadew``> remove the _d
2018-10-02T10:37:18 < jadew``> haha
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2018-10-02T11:11:02 < jadew> I'm not sure what is wrong about nationalism, unless I misunderstand its meaning
2018-10-02T11:11:31 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-02T11:12:06 < jadew> it basically means to not like immigrants, correct?
2018-10-02T11:13:00 < jadew> that's it?
2018-10-02T11:13:54 < Streaker> Immigrants are bad
2018-10-02T11:13:57 < kakimir> how about asian?
2018-10-02T11:14:06 < jadew> sure, but as a sentiment, it's basically resistance to immigration, is it not?
2018-10-02T11:14:10 < jadew> that's what I thought it meant
2018-10-02T11:14:26 < Streaker> They work hard and set wrong expectations for employers
2018-10-02T11:15:09 < jadew> for sure, but I think the sentiment is valid and normal
2018-10-02T11:15:21 < jadew> all countries were formed like that
2018-10-02T11:15:46 < jadew> yeah, that's how I see it too
2018-10-02T11:16:01 < jadew> nothing wrong with it
2018-10-02T11:16:35 < jadew> I mean, it's their land/country/etc, they can decide who they want to let in
2018-10-02T11:17:25 < jadew> and IMO, it's a lot more valid than any other arguments, considering how much blood was lost for controlling that land
2018-10-02T11:18:46 < jadew> I assume the nationalistic argument comes from the sense of responsibility they have towards their ancestors
2018-10-02T11:23:06 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMbynVhxTpM
2018-10-02T11:25:46 < jadew> he can't even complain, he didn't keep his lane
2018-10-02T11:30:06 < jadew> this is amazing: https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=k3uEi_1538299517
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2018-10-02T11:35:42 < jadew> they're probably sitting right on the line between two tectonic plates
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2018-10-02T11:57:09 < jadew> Cracki, they probably start with an eraser
2018-10-02T11:57:40 < jadew> then they wait for new stuff to get built
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2018-10-02T12:12:00 < kakimir> fuckken cap almost ruined my order
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2018-10-02T12:15:13 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-02T12:15:23 < kakimir> and no
2018-10-02T12:15:32 < kakimir> it was not backorder
2018-10-02T12:15:57 < kakimir> I filtered stocked
2018-10-02T12:16:13 < kakimir> but it had no stock
2018-10-02T12:17:19 < kakimir> they have this thing where they mark ordered quantity in stocked field
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2018-10-02T12:21:03 < jadew> man... I'm reading some stuff about Dracula and it's all slightly wrong
2018-10-02T12:21:17 < jadew> I wonder if everything online is like that
2018-10-02T12:21:26 < dongs> wut
2018-10-02T12:21:44 < jadew> like "Vlad Dracul" which meant "Vlad the Dragon" - it actually means "Vlad the Devil"
2018-10-02T12:22:18 < jadew> or that he once invited his enemies at a banquet and then implaed them - also false
2018-10-02T12:22:22 < jadew> he burned them alive
2018-10-02T12:23:12 < jadew> he did a lot of impaling tho...
2018-10-02T12:24:59 < jadew> hehe
2018-10-02T12:25:58 < jadew> of all the history classes, the ones about Vlad were the most memorable
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2018-10-02T12:31:27 < Steffanx> "history"
2018-10-02T12:31:43 < dongs> isnt all that shit some fairytale crap anyway
2018-10-02T12:31:48 < jadew> lol
2018-10-02T12:31:49 < jadew> no
2018-10-02T12:31:50 < dongs> vampires, and all that jazz
2018-10-02T12:31:53 < dongs> no?
2018-10-02T12:31:56 < dongs> well fuck wahtever then
2018-10-02T12:32:00 < jadew> well, the vampire thing sure...
2018-10-02T12:32:12 < jadew> but the guy actually existed, he was a ruller in our country
2018-10-02T12:32:25 < dongs> the first romanian hacker
2018-10-02T12:32:32 < dongs> in the hack to pieces with an axe sense
2018-10-02T12:32:53 < jadew> yeah, he was different
2018-10-02T12:34:35 < cjbaird> A best mate from Uni has a family crypt in the Transalvanian region, that they got the title back after Ceausescu-- family name Raboczi.
2018-10-02T12:35:21 < cjbaird> Funny that it was like Peak Goth in Brisbane at the time, and yet he found out he was was like /real/ Goth.
2018-10-02T12:36:48 < jadew> transilvania has plenty of goth influences 
2018-10-02T12:37:12 < jadew> visited it a couple of weeks ago (considering moving there)
2018-10-02T12:37:50 < dongs> is that where all hackkittens live
2018-10-02T12:38:39 < jadew> it's where all the chill people seem to live
2018-10-02T12:39:13 < cjbaird> Was one of the more destitute areas of Romania?
2018-10-02T12:39:28 < jadew> cjbaird, no
2018-10-02T12:39:37 < dongs> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/01/nz_border_customs/ RIP NZ
2018-10-02T12:39:42 < jadew> they have some germanic and french influences 
2018-10-02T12:39:54 < dongs> cjbaird: are you in brisbane
2018-10-02T12:39:58 < jadew> there are still some french religious orders in there, since the 14th century
2018-10-02T12:40:37 < cjbaird> No, lived there around 1995-1998
2018-10-02T12:40:40 < dongs> ah
2018-10-02T12:43:21 < cjbaird> Met another old mate from Uni the other day. I'd just parcked the scooter and was in full motorcycle gear. He was wearing a dress.
2018-10-02T12:43:30 < cjbaird> *parked
2018-10-02T12:43:47 < jadew> he?
2018-10-02T12:44:28 < cjbaird> hmm, too scared to look at his Facebook and see what the pronouns are.
2018-10-02T12:50:10 < karlp> oh, you were in brissy when I was there
2018-10-02T12:51:02 < cjbaird> karlp: do HUMBUG at all?
2018-10-02T12:51:08 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-02T12:51:13 < karlp> no, but I knew some of those people
2018-10-02T12:51:28 < karlp> AJ tutored me in ada 
2018-10-02T12:51:35 < jadew> Haohmaru, they're already making them, they're just too expensive
2018-10-02T12:51:47 < jadew> OLED displays are much much better than CRTs
2018-10-02T12:51:55 < jadew> and better than LCDs
2018-10-02T12:52:03 < cjbaird> ha. I remember the Ada phase; I picked it up for a while from discussion about it.
2018-10-02T12:52:17 < jadew> yeah, one of them being that they're expensive
2018-10-02T12:52:48 < zyp> pff, CRTs were shit
2018-10-02T12:53:01 < cjbaird> -=* MATRIX *=- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdO3r2zC5-8  (and done with a F446RE Nucleo)
2018-10-02T12:54:12 < zyp> Haohmaru, stop buying glossy cheap LCDs then
2018-10-02T12:54:37 < karlp> you must have been using some insanely expensive crts
2018-10-02T12:54:44 < karlp> or yo uhave some awesome rosy coloured glasses on
2018-10-02T13:02:25 < PeterM> I didn't know R2COM made music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRte4W3gTb0 
2018-10-02T13:03:12 < zyp> crt, dunno, I bought a U2711 which later got warranty replaced with a U2713H
2018-10-02T13:03:20 < zyp> idk what I'd buy today, probably something 4k
2018-10-02T13:07:02 < zyp> UP2718Q looks nice, but expensive as fuck
2018-10-02T13:07:22 < zyp> UP3216Q also looks nice, also expensive
2018-10-02T13:12:53 < zyp> U3818DW looks cute too
2018-10-02T13:16:48 < Thorn> does DW01 protect against reverse battery connection? datasheet only talks about reverse polarity charger connection
2018-10-02T13:19:10 < zyp> https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/Winsok-Semicon-WSTDW01_C86873.pdf <- this thing?
2018-10-02T13:19:23 < Thorn> there's a crapload of them
2018-10-02T13:19:36 < zyp> as far as I can see, it's designed to be embedded into a pack
2018-10-02T13:20:05 < zyp> and as such there's no point in protecting against wrong installation, just wrong usage of the pack
2018-10-02T13:20:12 < Thorn> I'm looking at https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/Fortune-Semicon-DW01A-G_C61503.pdf
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2018-10-02T13:21:36 < zyp> absolute max ratings says GND-0.3..GND+10V on VCC pin
2018-10-02T13:21:41 < zyp> so that's a no
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2018-10-02T13:58:08 < Laurenceb124> https://hackaday.com/2018/10/02/tiny-wifi-enabled-arm-mcu-for-tiny-projects/
2018-10-02T13:58:15 < Laurenceb124> when u see it you'll shit bricks
2018-10-02T14:00:37 < jadew> I can't see it - is it a design flaw?
2018-10-02T14:01:06 < Laurenceb124> jadew: the author
2018-10-02T14:01:48 < zyp> hey, that's cute
2018-10-02T14:02:23 < jadew> Laurenceb124, had to google it
2018-10-02T14:02:42 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-02T14:03:05 < Laurenceb124> jadew has never been to #electronics
2018-10-02T14:03:20 < jadew> he's a user there?
2018-10-02T14:03:37 -!- jadew [~razvan@79.115.59.210] has quit [Changing host]
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2018-10-02T14:03:48 < Laurenceb124> hackkitten
2018-10-02T14:03:53 < Laurenceb124> in here sometimes
2018-10-02T14:04:00 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-02T14:04:13 < jadew> now I get what dongs meant earlier...
2018-10-02T14:05:39 < Laurenceb124> yes
2018-10-02T14:05:41 < jadew> now that I think about it, I kinda remember that nickname
2018-10-02T14:07:45 < cjbaird> If I'm a lucky little boy, some Nucleo-32 boards and a Yaesu FT-818 should arrive tomorrow..
2018-10-02T14:07:48 < Laurenceb124> says meow a lot and directs you to fapping diary blog
2018-10-02T14:08:18 < Laurenceb124> cjbaird: why are u using ham kit?
2018-10-02T14:09:06 < jadew> can't find the nickname in the logs but they're only since 2016
2018-10-02T14:09:32 < jadew> instead, I found lots of references to him
2018-10-02T14:09:47 < Laurenceb124> kek the obsession
2018-10-02T14:09:57 < cjbaird> Besides from the all-band all-mode 1kg radio part, intending to use the '818 with microwave transverter projects.
2018-10-02T14:10:13 < Laurenceb124> oh ok cool
2018-10-02T14:10:23 < Laurenceb124> I find ham stuff annoying - just use sdr
2018-10-02T14:10:59 < cjbaird> Also, the guy whose HF gear I'm currently using died on the weekend, and I kinda have to return the stuff to his rellos for them to sell..
2018-10-02T14:11:30 < jadew> cjbaird, sell it yourself
2018-10-02T14:11:41 < cjbaird> Hopefully, back to me. But it was agreed I wouldn't do a runner with it.
2018-10-02T14:11:53 < jadew> what gear is that?
2018-10-02T14:13:04 < cjbaird> Kenwood TS680S (100W all-mode), the PSU for it, SWR meter, etc.
2018-10-02T14:13:36 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/K43d3VkF
2018-10-02T14:13:48 < cjbaird> Hoping to do the VGA-dongle SDR transmit stuff-- but that needs an Advanced Call.
2018-10-02T14:15:02 < cjbaird> All my QSOs are CW-- can't stand the 4WD-owning trash on voice.
2018-10-02T14:15:10 < jadew> I have an ICOM 756 PRO I should sell
2018-10-02T14:15:47 < jadew> I don't have a license, so I only transmitted into a load
2018-10-02T14:15:53 < BrainDamage> I might strap that to a balloon with a tethered antenna, alongside a cheapshit armboard and have it spew profanities on ham channels
2018-10-02T14:16:09 < jadew> lol BrainDamage
2018-10-02T14:17:57 < cjbaird> I think the sole remaining still-alive friend in Newcastle has a '756.
2018-10-02T14:18:44 < cjbaird> "Half my friends died on the weekend!" 
2018-10-02T14:19:13 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2018-10-02T14:19:23 < cjbaird> punchline: I have two friends. :|
2018-10-02T14:19:38 < jadew> cjbaird, sorry for your loss
2018-10-02T14:24:12 < cjbaird> Now accepting applications for people wanting to give me the time of day.. -_-
2018-10-02T14:24:37 < BrainDamage> irc cannot replace old fashioned human contact
2018-10-02T14:24:59 < BrainDamage> go to a bar and start drinking until you socialize, it might take few attemps
2018-10-02T14:25:06 < jadew> I only see my friends several times per year, so I don't think they count
2018-10-02T14:25:26 < jadew> I think it's safe to say that I have 0 real life friends
2018-10-02T14:26:24 < jadew> and weirdly enough, the other two romanians here are from my city
2018-10-02T14:26:54 < jadew> cjbaird, don't you have contacts from around you?
2018-10-02T14:27:15 < cjbaird> Tony, the guy who died, actually ran the biggest Fidonet BBS in the Newcastle area 'back in the day'. Met up with him when I started the Public Access Internet here.
2018-10-02T14:28:02 < kakimir> inverse steinhart-hart anyone?
2018-10-02T14:28:32 < cjbaird> 'Contacts', people I know, sure, but only the one guy now who's at the point where I can drop by his place with booze and do stuff with computers/radio/soldering irons.
2018-10-02T14:28:36 < BrainDamage> no context questions, anyone?
2018-10-02T14:29:27 < cjbaird> Most of my friends of ~10 years ago, my ex-gf got custody of. :/
2018-10-02T14:30:29 < kakimir> what are all these coefficients in inverse steinhart-hart
2018-10-02T14:30:33 < kakimir> ?
2018-10-02T14:30:36 < kakimir> I only need one
2018-10-02T14:31:59 -!- drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2018-10-02T14:32:43 < kakimir> I want calculate resistance at certain temperature
2018-10-02T14:32:49 < kakimir> then make a table
2018-10-02T14:33:44 < zyp> what do you mean "all"?
2018-10-02T14:34:03 < zyp> both the forward equation and the inverse uses the same three coefficients
2018-10-02T14:34:47 < BrainDamage> and you can literally copypaste wikipedia to implement it
2018-10-02T14:35:21 < kakimir> I only have one coefficient
2018-10-02T14:35:30 < zyp> beta?
2018-10-02T14:35:33 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-02T14:35:37 < zyp> that's not Steinhart-Hart
2018-10-02T14:35:55 < kakimir> oh
2018-10-02T14:36:01 < kakimir> I need to use beta method?
2018-10-02T14:36:07 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermistor#B_or_%CE%B2_parameter_equation
2018-10-02T14:36:29 < zyp> you can treat it as a simplified Steinhart-Hart with C=0
2018-10-02T14:36:36 < zyp> but it's less accurate
2018-10-02T14:38:51 < kakimir> what is the deal with different beta types like 25C 85C or 25C 80C
2018-10-02T14:39:02 < zyp> looks like the plain inverse is not gonna work, C=0 is gonna give you a division by zero
2018-10-02T14:40:55 < zyp> the deal is that the beta equation has limited accuracy, so you optimize it for the range you're interested in
2018-10-02T14:41:33 < zyp> sort of curve fitting
2018-10-02T14:42:20 < kakimir> but I can use different betas with same equation?
2018-10-02T14:42:40 < zyp> you pick the one that fits your operating range
2018-10-02T14:42:41 < kakimir> it's just optimized differently?
2018-10-02T14:42:44 < kakimir> sweet
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2018-10-02T14:46:43 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/7HcDC9H.jpg
2018-10-02T14:46:48 < englishman> truly an innovative company
2018-10-02T14:46:59 -!- drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-02T14:47:15 < kakimir> good guy elon
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2018-10-02T14:53:29 < cjbaird> Why is this guy not President?
2018-10-02T14:53:47 -!- boB_K7IQ [boB_K7IQ@c-73-193-6-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-02T14:55:14 < englishman> cuz hes an african-american immigrant
2018-10-02T14:57:25 < kakimir> he can still be president for canada right?
2018-10-02T14:58:24 < cjbaird> Always find it amusing how Musk, Gates, et.al., are(where) social media darlings whose every post gets shilled by the likes of The Guardian and signalistic subreddits, yet they're GOPiest of the GOP.
2018-10-02T14:59:04 < kakimir> GOP?
2018-10-02T14:59:11 < Laurenceb124> https://blogs.ams.org/inclusionexclusion/2017/05/11/get-out-the-way/
2018-10-02T14:59:19 < Laurenceb124> peak reddit
2018-10-02T14:59:27 < karlp> and where are we?
2018-10-02T14:59:49 < englishman> no better way to ruin a conversation than to talk about politics
2018-10-02T15:00:40 < cjbaird> Bill Gates-- hiring prostitutes for industrial epionage, running a team that worked directly at subverting governments, bought off the Anti-Trust suit when GWB came in. Then... "Hey guys! I like UBI!" "omg <3 u billg!"
2018-10-02T15:02:32 < karlp> UBI?
2018-10-02T15:02:54 < cjbaird> Universal Basic Income. 
2018-10-02T15:03:39 < kakimir> where is Laurenceb124 
2018-10-02T15:04:04 < Laurenceb124> here
2018-10-02T15:04:17 < kakimir> are you at works?
2018-10-02T15:04:17 < Laurenceb124> kakimir gets UBI right?
2018-10-02T15:04:20 < Laurenceb124> yes
2018-10-02T15:04:22 < kakimir> I wish
2018-10-02T15:04:24 < Laurenceb124> nobody is here
2018-10-02T15:04:29 < Laurenceb124> imagine my shock
2018-10-02T15:04:30 < cjbaird> ?Sweden made a go at it recently with about 2000 recipients, but cancelled the project half-way. (Unemployed never sought work; employed stopped working; did a complete 180 of what UBI proponents said would happen.. surprise)
2018-10-02T15:04:47 < Laurenceb124> I'm trolling reddit
2018-10-02T15:04:55 < zyp> cjbaird, wasn't that finland?
2018-10-02T15:05:30 < cjbaird> Therefore the "?". You might be right.
2018-10-02T15:06:21 < kakimir> employed stoped working? how much they did hand out?
2018-10-02T15:06:53 < zyp> not sure the rest of your statement is all that true either, IIRC the participants were already unemployed
2018-10-02T15:07:18 < Thorn> Peak Blaxter
2018-10-02T15:07:42 < zyp> https://www.wired.co.uk/article/finland-universal-basic-income-results-trial-cancelled
2018-10-02T15:09:13 < Laurenceb124> kakimir: it works fine
2018-10-02T15:09:37 < Laurenceb124> grant money is handed out, nobody turns up for work
2018-10-02T15:09:44 < Laurenceb124> why would you
2018-10-02T15:09:53 < Laurenceb124> basically babby shakker is UBI
2018-10-02T15:10:28 < zyp> "Since January 2017, a random sample of 2,000 unemployed people have been given a monthly (€560) £475 with no obligation to seek or accept employment for the duration of the trial."
2018-10-02T15:12:12 < kakimir> how do you not go to work if you get 560eur a month?
2018-10-02T15:12:18 < zyp> yeah, exactly
2018-10-02T15:12:40 < kakimir> bums have it figured out but not me
2018-10-02T15:12:55 < kakimir> not people that need over 1000eur a month
2018-10-02T15:13:07 < zyp> 560eur per month pays maybe like a third of my monthly bills
2018-10-02T15:13:27 < kakimir> pays like 2/3 of mine
2018-10-02T15:13:59 < jadew> social programs are stupid
2018-10-02T15:14:19 < zyp> I pay like 560 eur per month on my car loan alone
2018-10-02T15:14:42 < kakimir> I pay 560eur rent
2018-10-02T15:15:29 < jadew> I spend very little... I could live off of 560 eur
2018-10-02T15:16:32 < kakimir> in finland everything costs 560eur
2018-10-02T15:16:37 < jadew> haha
2018-10-02T15:17:37 < zyp> I wonder if those 560 eur is gross (i.e. taxable) income
2018-10-02T15:17:45 < kakimir> I write float values like 1.0
2018-10-02T15:17:57 < kakimir> is there different type of marking for double values?
2018-10-02T15:18:08 < kakimir> some prefix subfix?
2018-10-02T15:18:09 < zyp> 1.0 is double
2018-10-02T15:18:12 < kakimir> oh
2018-10-02T15:18:13 < zyp> float would be 1.0f
2018-10-02T15:18:26 < kakimir> I do so little floattery that I don't know
2018-10-02T15:18:46 < zyp> yeah, it usually get people like that
2018-10-02T15:19:52 < zyp> you got a M4F with a SP FPU, and then you do some quick hacking and forget to use float literals, and end up with code that does software-emulated double precision calcs that gets cast to a single, instead of actually using the FPU
2018-10-02T15:20:23 < cjbaird> gcc flags "-Wdouble-promotion -Wfloat-conversion" come in useful
2018-10-02T15:20:50 < zyp> yeah
2018-10-02T15:21:04 < zyp> there's also one to treat all literals as single precision
2018-10-02T15:21:47 < karlp> -Wconversion in general can be interesting
2018-10-02T15:24:18 < Laurenceb124> http://mattleifer.info/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/AntiQuantumZealot.jpg
2018-10-02T15:25:43 < Laurenceb124> this t-shirt will attract the ladies amirite
2018-10-02T15:27:00 < kakimir> yes
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2018-10-02T15:55:05 < dongs> https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/Fmk3ZJJNvheshNZS.huge lol crapple crappad uses STM32F103
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2018-10-02T16:00:16 < zyp> like anything else
2018-10-02T16:00:47 < Laurenceb124> original and best
2018-10-02T16:01:03 < Laurenceb124> atmega168 of stm32
2018-10-02T16:02:03 < Sadale> dongs, what's this thingie? laptop touchpad?
2018-10-02T16:02:24 < Sadale> nevertheless, it works :P
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2018-10-02T16:27:09 < jadew> tag connect what? http://79.115.59.210/stuff/20181002_161330.jpg
2018-10-02T16:30:10 < jadew> I made that thing with pogo pins so I can push it on the board, but it turns out it fits directly into the holes for the header
2018-10-02T16:30:57 < kakimir> does macros affect like function prototypes or so?
2018-10-02T16:31:08 < kakimir> if I want to switch types etc.
2018-10-02T16:31:23 < jadew> macros get solved before compilation
2018-10-02T16:31:24 < jadew> so yeah
2018-10-02T16:31:25 < kakimir> certainly it doesn't care
2018-10-02T16:31:30 < kakimir> sweet
2018-10-02T16:31:40 < kakimir> let's make projects big again
2018-10-02T16:32:43 < kakimir> I need to think about portability
2018-10-02T16:33:15 < kakimir> maybe I test with uint16_t first before going crazy
2018-10-02T16:34:31 < kakimir> I develop code with lpc then port it to PIC
2018-10-02T16:34:50 < kakimir> I have like 1K of flash in that beast
2018-10-02T16:35:30 < kakimir> we will see
2018-10-02T16:35:53 < englishman> no assembly today just 100% paperwork
2018-10-02T16:36:01 < englishman> rip innovation
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2018-10-02T16:37:15 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/yJnNpC53
2018-10-02T16:37:34 < Laurenceb124> >just 100% paperwork >this is bad for englishman
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2018-10-02T16:41:19 < kakimir> I want to generate temperature resistance table
2018-10-02T16:41:26 < kakimir> but I don't want it in ram
2018-10-02T16:41:38 < kakimir> I have constants for temperature points
2018-10-02T16:41:43 < BrainDamage> static const
2018-10-02T16:41:57 < Laurenceb124> use starlite
2018-10-02T16:42:04 < Laurenceb124> 1970s emdrive
2018-10-02T16:42:44 < kakimir> I want to generate resistances to that table from macros I have for NTC known parameters
2018-10-02T16:43:06 < kakimir> I have function like macro that has all the math shiet I just for-loop it
2018-10-02T16:43:26 < Laurenceb124> why is this hard
2018-10-02T16:43:34 < Laurenceb124> >known parameters
2018-10-02T16:43:39 < Laurenceb124> jerb done for you
2018-10-02T16:44:08 < kakimir> because I need recursive math
2018-10-02T16:44:45 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/3kFph6VY
2018-10-02T16:45:51 < kakimir> to say that temperature resistance table size exceeds all available ram in target chip
2018-10-02T16:46:34 < kakimir> precalculating the table meeeh
2018-10-02T16:46:40 < kakimir> I want it compile time
2018-10-02T16:46:51 < dongs> wut.
2018-10-02T16:46:56 < dongs> you make that shit static const
2018-10-02T16:47:02 < dongs> why the fuck would it be in ram
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2018-10-02T16:48:27 < kakimir> I still need to call a function that for-loops thru table reading temperatures converting them into resistance values
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2018-10-02T16:48:33 < dongs> .
2018-10-02T16:48:40 < kakimir> can't be const
2018-10-02T16:48:47 < dongs> you cant be serious
2018-10-02T16:49:00 < kakimir> tell me
2018-10-02T16:49:33 < _abc_> Beep. This document answers some of my questions but is also super confusing. Is there an executive summary? https://www.st.com/resource/en/technical_note/dm00290229.pdf Overview of st-link derivatives
2018-10-02T16:49:44 < dongs> #define I_AM_DUMB_NIGGER(x) (x * 31.37f) static const float temps[] = { I_AM_DUMB_NIGGER(10), I_AM_DUMB_NIGGER(11), ... };
2018-10-02T16:50:08 < dongs> _abc_: what possible questions do you have about it
2018-10-02T16:50:09 < cjbaird> calculate the variable resistance values on-the-fly while keeping the table const...?
2018-10-02T16:50:15 < englishman> Laurenceb124: i have to make some quotes for the local power utility
2018-10-02T16:50:18 < englishman> will be like half the day
2018-10-02T16:50:28 < _abc_> Like, which one is the "new" standard and which one is the soon to be deprecated one?
2018-10-02T16:51:11 < kakimir> dongs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermistor#B_or_%CE%B2_parameter_equation second equation
2018-10-02T16:51:14 < _abc_> Also virtual COM port refers to fed through slave UART from target or to real programming. Does storage mode refer to storage mode access for programming, possibly with offline-no computer programming later or what.
2018-10-02T16:51:40 < Laurenceb124> englishman: good jerb you dont need to get ur device approved and CE marked
2018-10-02T16:51:48 < englishman> nyope
2018-10-02T16:52:00 < dongs> kikemir, when I needed a NTC to temperature conversion table, I just ran all the formulas through excel and outputted the final result to a static table
2018-10-02T16:52:07 < dongs> so i have d irect correlation adc -> temperature.
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2018-10-02T16:52:18 < englishman> but i do have to buy a pallet of lantronix XP1001000-05R‎ 
2018-10-02T16:52:26 < dongs> lol lantronix
2018-10-02T16:52:29 < kakimir> dongs: yeah..
2018-10-02T16:52:35 < kakimir> I'd better do that
2018-10-02T16:52:39 < dongs> you gonna zano it up?
2018-10-02T16:52:55 < kakimir> it would have been so nice to just build the project and go
2018-10-02T16:53:02 < Laurenceb124> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=27151.80
2018-10-02T16:53:05 < Laurenceb124> my sides
2018-10-02T16:53:21 < englishman> XP1001000-05R‎ looks like absolutely overpriced fiddly crap
2018-10-02T16:53:35 < kakimir> there seems to be no way out of it
2018-10-02T16:53:38 < cjbaird> Being an stm32, I'd be thinking of just computing the e^x every time..
2018-10-02T16:54:59 < Laurenceb124> yeah
2018-10-02T16:55:26 < Laurenceb124> thats how I've done it in the past
2018-10-02T16:56:41 < dongs> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Lantronix/XPCW1002100B?qs=sGAEpiMZZMueJGT%2f0PGc4xNi1gaFIBz19I8VldXVRCY%3d
2018-10-02T16:56:44 < dongs> found zano stock
2018-10-02T16:56:50 < cjbaird> If the FP flash usage is excessive doing it the proper IEEE way, throw a good-enough approximation in instead.
2018-10-02T16:57:06 < cjbaird> Did that with arctan() on the SatClock
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2018-10-02T16:58:19 < dongs> _abc_: none of that.
2018-10-02T16:58:21 < dongs> stlink is dumb.
2018-10-02T16:58:27 < dongs> vcom = uart passthrough to target
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2018-10-02T16:58:35 < dongs> storage mode = someshit for mbed, just ignore it
2018-10-02T16:58:52 < dongs> the mbed b ootloader makes storage shit, and you drop a .hex into it from pc
2018-10-02T16:58:58 < dongs> there's no space to actually store any firmware on stlink
2018-10-02T16:59:13 < _abc_> stlink is dumb but stlink v2 clones are sold out in this country for months.
2018-10-02T16:59:33 < _abc_> So I just ordered a stm32vldiscovery and will work with that until I get a stlink v2 dongle
2018-10-02T16:59:39 < dongs> well, you failed
2018-10-02T16:59:42 < dongs> because vldisco has stlink v1
2018-10-02T16:59:45 < dongs> aka the really old shit
2018-10-02T16:59:55 < _abc_> dongs: no chcoices at the present distrib
2018-10-02T16:59:59 < Laurenceb124> cjbaird: depends how much flash you have I guess
2018-10-02T17:00:11 < Rickta59> you can always load bmp on that stlink v1
2018-10-02T17:00:12 < _abc_> If it does F103 it's ok, that's what I will use for now dongs 
2018-10-02T17:00:14 < Laurenceb124> this was for my does everything datalogger with 128k flash
2018-10-02T17:00:24 < Laurenceb124> so fractional increase was small
2018-10-02T17:00:38 < _abc_> I assume it does F103 since it does F100. Right?!
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2018-10-02T17:00:52 < dongs> oh sure.
2018-10-02T17:00:56 < dongs> firmware will do any Fx
2018-10-02T17:01:02 < Laurenceb124> full firmware like 80k or something
2018-10-02T17:01:02 < dongs> you can update it when it arrives
2018-10-02T17:01:12 < _abc_> What about Lxxx
2018-10-02T17:01:14 < _abc_> The low end ones
2018-10-02T17:01:23 < dongs> anything stm it should work, with newest firmware.
2018-10-02T17:01:38 < dongs> v1/v2 diff is lack of vcom and some other shit i forget
2018-10-02T17:01:38 < _abc_> Is it not unsafe to update fw?
2018-10-02T17:01:44 < dongs> not on legit board, its fine
2018-10-02T17:01:45 < cjbaird> SatClock is on a MSP430F5529, so 32kB. The single-precision FP code before taking an axe to it and removing all the excess trig stuff was ~30kB. 
2018-10-02T17:01:46 < _abc_> Also can one update fw from linux?
2018-10-02T17:02:19 < dongs> no clue
2018-10-02T17:02:20 < _abc_> Do any of the windows tools run under vista? I think I only have a vista for this. I'm a linux person.
2018-10-02T17:02:27 < dongs> they do
2018-10-02T17:02:36 < _abc_> ok
2018-10-02T17:02:39 < BrainDamage> yes you can update from lunix
2018-10-02T17:02:49 < _abc_> Ok, I'll look it up.
2018-10-02T17:02:58 < _abc_> Is there any clean open source toolchain for stm32?
2018-10-02T17:03:03 < _abc_> The ones I see are not "clean
2018-10-02T17:03:04 < Laurenceb124> cjbaird: sounds too big to me
2018-10-02T17:03:07 < Rickta59> you are talking about updating the stlink v1 to v2?
2018-10-02T17:03:13 < Rickta59> the firmware?
2018-10-02T17:03:15 < dongs> no just updating fw
2018-10-02T17:03:18 < emeb> _abc_: STM32CubeProgrammer runs under linux and can update firmware in the ST-Link
2018-10-02T17:03:20 < _abc_> I am not they are.
2018-10-02T17:03:22 < dongs> i think newest ST shit is javacrap
2018-10-02T17:03:25 < dongs> so it should actually rtun on lunix
2018-10-02T17:03:28 < Laurenceb124> eww java
2018-10-02T17:03:40 < Rickta59> as far as i know it won't do that * i'm on linux
2018-10-02T17:03:41 < BrainDamage> you can use plain gcc none eabi to compile stm32
2018-10-02T17:03:56 < cjbaird> Laurenceb124: guess how I discovered the double-promotion flag...
2018-10-02T17:04:07 < _abc_> Does one not need the thumb compression thing and linker files for the device?
2018-10-02T17:04:16 < Laurenceb124> oh I see :P
2018-10-02T17:04:29 < _abc_> For gcc->stm32?
2018-10-02T17:04:42 < BrainDamage> linker files you only need to write the memory addresses ranges for flash, etc
2018-10-02T17:04:45 < Rickta59> although going from v1 to v2 might be a new thing i long ago made the stlink on my stm32vldiscovery a bmp device
2018-10-02T17:04:49 < BrainDamage> you can use a lib or write your own
2018-10-02T17:04:49 < dongs> why not just get gcc arm embedded or whatever shti
2018-10-02T17:05:02 < _abc_> what is a bmp device. Surely not bitmap.
2018-10-02T17:05:19 < BrainDamage> black magic probe, it's a completely different firmware
2018-10-02T17:05:20 < Rickta59> black magic probe .. alternative debugger
2018-10-02T17:05:32 < _abc_> What is "Enables secure firmware creation using the STM32 Trusted Package Creator tool"
2018-10-02T17:05:42 < _abc_> Signed firmware?
2018-10-02T17:05:43 < dongs> DRM
2018-10-02T17:05:46 < dongs> lunixfags don't need to apply
2018-10-02T17:05:48 < _abc_> Is that not self defeating?
2018-10-02T17:05:55 < dongs> this is for people who actually do work with STM32
2018-10-02T17:06:36 < Rickta59> have you found "the book" _abc_ ?
2018-10-02T17:07:01 < _abc_> Hm?
2018-10-02T17:07:05 < Rickta59> https://www.cs.indiana.edu/~geobrown/book.pdf
2018-10-02T17:07:17 < _abc_> dongs: I sure hope to do "real work" with stm32 some day, SOON
2018-10-02T17:08:56 < _abc_> Thanks for the link, will see to it when the device arrives.
2018-10-02T17:08:57 < cjbaird> Laurenceb124: looking now, the ieeefloat code got down to ~17kB
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2018-10-02T17:09:40 < aandrew> just use jlink and stop using stupid vendor tools
2018-10-02T17:10:47 < Rickta59> the nice thing about using and stlink, is that it just works when using TrueStudio
2018-10-02T17:11:00 < aandrew> BMP is nice
2018-10-02T17:11:10 < aandrew> yeah but why are you using TrueStudio is the real question
2018-10-02T17:11:21 < Rickta59> it is a free professional tool 
2018-10-02T17:11:28 < Rickta59> and runs on linux
2018-10-02T17:11:40 < dongs> its either professional
2018-10-02T17:11:42 < dongs> or it runs on lunix
2018-10-02T17:11:44 < dongs> but not both
2018-10-02T17:11:49 < Rickta59> it also runs on winblows
2018-10-02T17:12:03 < aandrew> just use vi/vim or sublime text and gcc like a pro
2018-10-02T17:12:10 < aandrew> or if you're japro use keil like a faggot
2018-10-02T17:12:39 < Rickta59> yeah .. the code completion in vi is kind of lacking in my opinion
2018-10-02T17:12:43 < veverak> linux master race!
2018-10-02T17:13:19 < veverak> Rickta59: in vim that is easily doable
2018-10-02T17:13:34 < veverak> "if certain conditions are met"
2018-10-02T17:13:46 < Rickta59> well in truestdio it just works
2018-10-02T17:13:56 < aandrew> who the fuck uses code completion
2018-10-02T17:14:08 < Rickta59> aandrew:  .. he i just did
2018-10-02T17:14:12 < aandrew> this isn't java where your method names are 90+ characters of idiotCamelCase long
2018-10-02T17:14:12 < Rickta59> a<tab>
2018-10-02T17:15:06 < aandrew> man it seems I cant get a rise out of dongs today, oh well
2018-10-02T17:15:13 < Rickta59> i find, that no longer do i have to clog my brain with all the function names, i just start typing and hit tab
2018-10-02T17:15:30 < Rickta59> and the args .. don't have to remember their order
2018-10-02T17:15:35 < aandrew> I find it takes more brainpower to start typing something, pause and remember to hit tab than it does just to type it out
2018-10-02T17:15:46 < _abc_> veverak: there are indeed a few races in linux, some are masters.
2018-10-02T17:15:51 < Rickta59> i can hover over a enum type to see what they are
2018-10-02T17:15:52 < veverak> _abc_: true
2018-10-02T17:15:55 < aandrew> almost every function I write takes less than four args
2018-10-02T17:16:01 < veverak> yeah
2018-10-02T17:16:04 < veverak> too many args is bullshit
2018-10-02T17:16:06 < Rickta59> i would hope so aandrew 
2018-10-02T17:16:11 < _abc_> too many args is stack murder
2018-10-02T17:16:17 < veverak> however
2018-10-02T17:16:18 < Rickta59> any more than that and the abi kicks in and makes them slow
2018-10-02T17:16:47 < Rickta59> i make everything a global variable
2018-10-02T17:16:48 < veverak> in languages like C, which do not have strong type system, my_f(int,int,int,int) is just fcking painfull </troll_ens>
2018-10-02T17:16:50 < veverak> anyway
2018-10-02T17:16:57 < aandrew> dunno; code completion is never one of my "gee I wish you could crap up my editor with" feature requests
2018-10-02T17:17:05 < _abc_> <aside>Way back when I was browsing m$ C class books in a bookstore, and they had a help function with about 8 arguments, and 6 of them were to be set to NULL by the caller "for future features". Hahaha.
2018-10-02T17:17:08 < Rickta59> what is your favorite feature aandrew ?
2018-10-02T17:17:17 < veverak> aandrew: I like "name hinting" (only the name)  because no matter how many times I write something, I still make one-letter errors
2018-10-02T17:17:31 < veverak> _abc_: o_O
2018-10-02T17:17:42 < _abc_> veverak: syntax highlight and name hinting are useful yes.
2018-10-02T17:17:44 < aandrew> just stay out of my way really. I use sublime or vim depending on mood/connection 
2018-10-02T17:17:56 < _abc_> veverak: also hotlinked system functions linked to their doc page.
2018-10-02T17:17:56 < veverak> _abc_: yup
2018-10-02T17:17:57 < Rickta59> right clock to follow where a function comes from is on the top of my list
2018-10-02T17:18:01 < Rickta59> right click
2018-10-02T17:18:11 < veverak> _abc_: hmm, just fast switching to browser with the doc page I suppose
2018-10-02T17:18:16 < aandrew> I do have some garbage enabled in vim that will peek into structs and hint at what the elements are but 90% of the time it takes it longer to pull that up and causes me to make a typing mistake
2018-10-02T17:18:20 < _abc_> veverak: just that yes.
2018-10-02T17:18:20 < aandrew> I just haven't got around to disabling it yet
2018-10-02T17:18:23 < veverak> Rickta59: YOU USE MOUSE?~
2018-10-02T17:18:25 < veverak> ?!
2018-10-02T17:18:33 < _abc_> Or simply call a perl script on that keypress.
2018-10-02T17:18:33 < Rickta59> i use vi when i don't plan to spend more than a 30 seconds in a file
2018-10-02T17:18:37 < aandrew> sublime has column mode and column select which is handy
2018-10-02T17:18:47 < _abc_> aandrew: vim has that too iirc
2018-10-02T17:18:50 < aandrew> but I think that's really about it outside of a good regexp-capable search and replace
2018-10-02T17:19:11 < Rickta59> there are things in vi i like
2018-10-02T17:19:24 < Rickta59> being able to grab a bunch of lines and pipe them to sort
2018-10-02T17:19:35 < Rickta59> or pipe to fmt
2018-10-02T17:19:38 < _abc_> vim is completely scriptable although I wish the author would have chosen a mainstream language for that, not made up his own.
2018-10-02T17:19:45 < Rickta59> or have it generate a table for me
2018-10-02T17:19:45 < aandrew> yeah there are a ton of features in vim that I dont' even know are there 
2018-10-02T17:19:53 < veverak> yup
2018-10-02T17:19:55 < veverak> :)
2018-10-02T17:19:56 < aandrew> but you learn about and sock away for that once in a year time you need it
2018-10-02T17:20:03 < _abc_> I also profoundly dislike the vim docs, which are a jungle. 
2018-10-02T17:20:22 < Rickta59> that is when i go into vi .. when i want to manipulate sections of a file with linux
2018-10-02T17:20:28 < _abc_> More so in Debian. I merged all text form vim docs into one huge file, so I can regexp searach in it.
2018-10-02T17:20:53 < _abc_> It seems to work fine.
2018-10-02T17:21:09 < _abc_> Splitting the manual into umpteen files is a failure.
2018-10-02T17:21:13 < aandrew> it's funny, most of my open shells are for vim or bc
2018-10-02T17:21:23 < _abc_> hehe. What about irssi.
2018-10-02T17:21:31 < aandrew> well that's a given
2018-10-02T17:21:45 < _abc_> aandrew: here too, as you say.
2018-10-02T17:22:02 < _abc_> What are xterms for? To run vim, bc, irssi of course.
2018-10-02T17:22:15 < _abc_> On 12 desktops here currently. 
2018-10-02T17:22:28 < _abc_> If I close every project I have open I'll never find it again after a reboot.
2018-10-02T17:22:35 < aandrew> hahaha
2018-10-02T17:22:36 < aandrew> tru
2018-10-02T17:22:54 < Rickta59> so why the vldiscovery _abc_ ?
2018-10-02T17:23:12 < _abc_> Rickta59: it was the only thing with a programmer in the distri's list and I pinched the last item on the shelf.
2018-10-02T17:23:25 < _abc_> Rickta59: there's some supply shortage right now here, so I had to move.
2018-10-02T17:23:25 < Rickta59> where are you that you can find a nucleo?
2018-10-02T17:23:29 < _abc_> .ro
2018-10-02T17:23:35 < _abc_> I can find nucleos but the price is wrong.
2018-10-02T17:23:45 < _abc_> The discovery is marked up about 70% as is.
2018-10-02T17:23:45 < aandrew> go rob jadew
2018-10-02T17:23:49 < aandrew> I bet he's got a few
2018-10-02T17:23:56 < _abc_> Hehe. Yes I could.
2018-10-02T17:24:20 < Rickta59> how much do you want to spend?
2018-10-02T17:24:31 < _abc_> Heh dangerous question.
2018-10-02T17:24:51 < _abc_> I have a time and money budget for this move towards cheap F103 based boards I can get here for $4 each
2018-10-02T17:25:01 < _abc_> So that was my goal.
2018-10-02T17:25:03 < Rickta59> the stm8 board woudl be good way to get a stlinkv2
2018-10-02T17:25:14 < _abc_> Which board exactly.
2018-10-02T17:25:18 < dongs> but it doesnt have SWD broken out
2018-10-02T17:25:22 < dongs> and you'd need to hax0r firmware to udpate it
2018-10-02T17:25:27 < Rickta59> i thought so
2018-10-02T17:25:28 < dongs> to both jtag/swim version
2018-10-02T17:25:45 < _abc_> Which one? stm32vldiscovery has a F100 on it and has SWD on pins
2018-10-02T17:25:48 < dongs> just like you need to hax0r to force dual firmware (from real stlink) onto v2 thats on -disco boards
2018-10-02T17:25:53 < _abc_> What are you two on about
2018-10-02T17:25:59 < dongs> STM8 discovery boards
2018-10-02T17:26:08 < dongs> with stlink on them, whcih only connects the SWIM part of stlink
2018-10-02T17:26:11 < _abc_> Oh stm8.
2018-10-02T17:26:32 < Rickta59> doesn't seem like .ro mouser has them anyways
2018-10-02T17:27:19 < Rickta59> 115,72 ro is too much?
2018-10-02T17:27:22 < _abc_> Is L100 L070 used for anyhing? It looks quite cramped sized.
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2018-10-02T17:28:04 < _abc_> Rickta59: it's double what I paid for the stm32vl and it's still too much after I'll get the ~35RON st-link v2 dongle when it comes into stock again.
2018-10-02T17:28:33 < _abc_> Rickta59: at my distri a legit stlink v2 from factory is 159RON
2018-10-02T17:28:53 < Rickta59> 40us yikes
2018-10-02T17:28:59 < _abc_> Just for laughs for fast conversion to EUR divide by 5 and add 10%
2018-10-02T17:29:31 < Laurenceb124> https://twitter.com/johnmpowell1/status/943226049621409792
2018-10-02T17:29:37 < Laurenceb124> for truly epic laughs
2018-10-02T17:30:05 < _abc_> Rickta59: also we have 20% vat which is included in that 
2018-10-02T17:31:01 < _abc_> Laurenceb124: I dig the balloons lifting the light structure, where does the lawn chair get attached, with the man with the pellet gun in it?
2018-10-02T17:31:11 < Laurenceb124> heh
2018-10-02T17:31:31 < Laurenceb124> I don't get how someone can be that deranged without being a troll
2018-10-02T17:31:53 < Laurenceb124> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/27151.0/1471645.jpg
2018-10-02T17:31:59 < Laurenceb124> kek @ the pressures
2018-10-02T17:32:02 < _abc_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7q3MnJBxrw Laurenceb124 
2018-10-02T17:32:56 < _abc_> Laurenceb124: there's a certain joke about fools in an asylum, doc visits, asks each if he's napoleon, they all say yes, one says no. The doc lets him go for being sane. Once out he cackles
2018-10-02T17:33:04 < _abc_> he didn't ask if I'm a doctor.
2018-10-02T17:33:25 < _abc_> So you know loonies are excellent at appearing normal when they try hard.
2018-10-02T17:34:21 < _abc_> Iirc in the 1950s when Rogallo invented his flying wing the idea was to create a crew return vehicle for space missions, and one version had the shape of that thing you linked at nasa Laurenceb124 
2018-10-02T17:34:34 < Rickta59> NUCLEO-8L152R8 those seem to have swd pins available 
2018-10-02T17:34:45 < Rickta59> in us a $10 part
2018-10-02T17:34:53 < _abc_> So when they'll finish playing with 3d cad maybe they should see some pics of older things and drawings.
2018-10-02T17:34:55 < Rickta59> but then again there are other $10 nucleos
2018-10-02T17:34:59 < _abc_> Including inflatable ones.
2018-10-02T17:35:12 < _abc_> Rickta59: you can be sure there is a 100% markup on anything new. 
2018-10-02T17:35:15 < _abc_> Here.
2018-10-02T17:35:46 < aandrew> inflatable nucleos?
2018-10-02T17:36:02 < _abc_> Inflatable crew reentry flying bodies
2018-10-02T17:36:02 < aandrew> _abc_: where in .ro are you?
2018-10-02T17:36:07 < _abc_> BUH
2018-10-02T17:36:37 < aandrew> BUH?
2018-10-02T17:36:42 < aandrew> is that some shothand for bucharest?
2018-10-02T17:36:46 < _abc_> Just as a reality check: see amount of balloons needed to lift a guy https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/canada/11722381/Canadian-man-arrested-after-balloon-chair-flight.html
2018-10-02T17:36:53 < englishman> dongs, can you sell me a paste machine plz
2018-10-02T17:36:57 < englishman> have to assembly 15" wide board
2018-10-02T17:36:59 < _abc_> aandrew: Bucharest. BUH is the airport's ICAO designation on 3 letters.
2018-10-02T17:37:16 < dongs> thats big :(
2018-10-02T17:37:18 < aandrew> aha
2018-10-02T17:37:20 < englishman> yeah :(
2018-10-02T17:37:29 < englishman> il give you $
2018-10-02T17:37:31 < englishman> today
2018-10-02T17:37:31 < englishman> now
2018-10-02T17:37:35 < aandrew> I have family in bucharest, severin and jimbolia
2018-10-02T17:37:36 < zyp> break it in half, assemble, glue back together
2018-10-02T17:37:42 < _abc_> aandrew: Nice.
2018-10-02T17:37:46 < dongs> zyp's got it figured out
2018-10-02T17:37:51 < Laurenceb124> a big board 4 u
2018-10-02T17:37:59 < englishman> that would certainly help for voltage isolation
2018-10-02T17:38:00 < aandrew> yeah I want to build one of those screeners
2018-10-02T17:38:03 < _abc_> aandrew: Moved to the US?
2018-10-02T17:38:11 < aandrew> looks very good, but he's not giving away the secret sauce of the fingers
2018-10-02T17:38:29 < englishman> therse a chinaman inside
2018-10-02T17:38:31 < englishman> no secret
2018-10-02T17:38:31 < aandrew> _abc_: no I'm canadian. married a .ro woman who emigrated here when she was 25
2018-10-02T17:38:38 < _abc_> Ah
2018-10-02T17:38:43 < dongs> i read that as "no I'm a comedian"
2018-10-02T17:38:52 < aandrew> englishman: ah, so it's SMT - small man technology
2018-10-02T17:39:00 < _abc_> aandrew: I almost ended up in Canada but relatives there thwarted that.
2018-10-02T17:39:02 < aandrew> dongs: I am kind of funny too
2018-10-02T17:39:05 < englishman> everything aandrew does is SMT
2018-10-02T17:39:07 < aandrew> although you didn't take the bait about keil
2018-10-02T17:39:16 < dongs> i was too busy innovating
2018-10-02T17:39:16 < aandrew> I am kind of short
2018-10-02T17:39:17 < Laurenceb124> _abc_: they claim they can send an airship to orbit 
2018-10-02T17:39:18 < aandrew> 5'10"
2018-10-02T17:39:21 < _abc_> Keil is either expensive or cracked
2018-10-02T17:39:22 < Thorn> so if there is no battery attached mcp73831t won't let the power through to the device?
2018-10-02T17:39:27 < Laurenceb124> but nothing they say makes any sense
2018-10-02T17:39:34 < aandrew> I gotta finish this layout today
2018-10-02T17:39:38 < englishman> dongs il sign an NDA so canadian spies cant steal your innovations
2018-10-02T17:39:41 < aandrew> all the diffpairs are routed now
2018-10-02T17:39:42 < _abc_> Laurenceb124: They probably can but the time it takes to lift a flowerpot will not be worth it
2018-10-02T17:39:55 < aandrew> altium actually physically moves the schematic pins around when you swap pins, that was a little surprising
2018-10-02T17:40:07 < aandrew> englishman: I'll help
2018-10-02T17:40:13 < Laurenceb124> _abc_ nothing wrong with airships
2018-10-02T17:40:14 < aandrew> we want dong's tech
2018-10-02T17:40:21 < Laurenceb124> but their shit makes 0 sense
2018-10-02T17:40:31 < _abc_> Laurenceb124: some things do make sense. Iirc the balloon altitude record places it quite far up but after that you need to pick up speed. And that's where rockoons come in.
2018-10-02T17:40:37 < Laurenceb124> I dont understand what motivates them
2018-10-02T17:40:46 < Laurenceb124> _abc_ sure
2018-10-02T17:40:57 < Laurenceb124> orbital and airship do not mix well
2018-10-02T17:40:57 < _abc_> Laurenceb124: this country's mini space outfit tried to launch a rockoon recently, failed.
2018-10-02T17:41:05 < Laurenceb124> really
2018-10-02T17:41:12 < _abc_> Look up ARCA
2018-10-02T17:41:21 < Laurenceb124> _abc_ you know I'm semi part time working on a rockoon
2018-10-02T17:41:24 < Laurenceb124> oh ARCA lol
2018-10-02T17:41:25 < Laurenceb124> oh wow
2018-10-02T17:41:33 < _abc_> Hah they moved to NM
2018-10-02T17:41:40 < Laurenceb124> they are almost as unhinged as JP
2018-10-02T17:41:59 < Laurenceb124>  (JP aerospace not Jordan Peterson)
2018-10-02T17:42:19 < _abc_> http://www.arcaspace.com/ these people are Romanian and they launched with help from the government above the Black Sea I think.
2018-10-02T17:43:22 < _abc_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARCA_Space_Corporation better writeup
2018-10-02T17:43:49 < _abc_> It's amazing how bad the sites of technical companies have gotten. Got to find content at other sites. Look at stmicro.com ...
2018-10-02T17:47:33 < _abc_> Rogallo wing in Apollo times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWa-KlpBXnk&feature=youtu.be
2018-10-02T17:52:13 < _abc_> So there are precedents, mostly coming down, not going up.
2018-10-02T17:52:26 < _abc_> That does make the people you called crazy, less crazy.
2018-10-02T17:54:47 < karlp> stlink v1 works ~pretty fine, but you don't get SWO, and it doesn't have srst pins on it's little header
2018-10-02T17:55:02 < _abc_> https://books.google.ro/books?id=Smtn0fbL-EAC&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=nasa+crew+return+glider&source=bl&ots=FSrQtrmliq&sig=LBnOESxCiUAtdVmhEqHd2WAuCiM&hl=ro&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMlOq9gejdAhXBiSwKHfiDA-EQ6AEINzAL see 2. gliders
2018-10-02T17:55:06 < karlp> it would have to be _wayyyy_ cheaper than any other nucleo or disco board to make it worth while.
2018-10-02T17:55:14 < _abc_> karlp: thanks for returning to on topic stuff
2018-10-02T17:55:14 < karlp> I've never seen a stlinkv3 anywhere yet.
2018-10-02T17:55:47 < _abc_> karlp: as I said, I'll get a st-link v2 dongle clone soon, but this thing will arrive in 4 days.
2018-10-02T17:56:52 < karlp> v2 dongle clones are probably ~simlar functionality to v1 anyway :)
2018-10-02T17:56:56 < _abc_> <final off topic posting>The proper search term for those reentry vehicles is CERV. Wikipedia page, relevant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_Return_Vehicle
2018-10-02T17:57:02 < karlp> some of them don't hve the swo or reset pins wired correctly :)
2018-10-02T17:57:16 < _abc_> karlp: I was just reading recently on someone trying to update one with latest fw and bricking it.
2018-10-02T17:57:33 < _abc_> So they are not made equal? The little dongles?
2018-10-02T17:57:44 < karlp> you've got to really have a fetish for litle alu cases to want one instead of anucleo/disco board.
2018-10-02T17:57:56 < karlp> no, they're generic china ripoffs, some good some busted.
2018-10-02T17:58:13 < karlp> and not much cheaper than a nuc/disco that gives you a test target as well.
2018-10-02T17:58:18 < Thorn> is the general idea sound? https://i.imgur.com/zGlwERR.png
2018-10-02T17:58:25 < _abc_> Give me a full name for a nucleo or disco board karlp 
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2018-10-02T17:58:55 < karlp> any of them
2018-10-02T17:59:10 < karlp> there's only one board that has a stlinkv1, that's the vl disco.
2018-10-02T17:59:16 < karlp> everything since either has v2 or v2.1
2018-10-02T17:59:24 < _abc_> stm32vldisco ?
2018-10-02T17:59:35 < karlp> and unless you're _also_ targetting stm8, v2 and v2.1 are ~equivalent
2018-10-02T17:59:46 < karlp> yes, the vl disco is the _only_ place you can get a stlinkv1.
2018-10-02T18:00:06 < _abc_> Is it vldisco or vldiscovery
2018-10-02T18:00:10 < karlp> you may still be able to find original standalone v1s in some shitty distro old stock, but you'd be unlucky.
2018-10-02T18:00:23 < karlp> disco = discovery, nuc = nucleo
2018-10-02T18:00:43 < _abc_> Again, is the stm32vldiscovery with a v1 stlink on it really bad, or what?
2018-10-02T18:00:59 < karlp> not really, not any more at least, all it's quirks are now supported, 
2018-10-02T18:01:05 < karlp> it's more a "why would you bother?"
2018-10-02T18:01:31 < karlp> like I said, it would have to be realllllly urgent and pressing and realllllllly cheaper to want to buy a vl disco to use as your debug dongle
2018-10-02T18:01:35 < _abc_> I explained why. Local and reachable reps are not good with prices and supply. It was the only thing with jumpers on it for swd.
2018-10-02T18:01:51 < karlp> Thorn: what's the adc for?
2018-10-02T18:02:12 < Thorn> battery U & I measurement
2018-10-02T18:03:01 < _abc_> What's a rlink-std? Much more money and non stocked here.
2018-10-02T18:03:03 < karlp> fuwhat's the low fet for?
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2018-10-02T18:03:18 < karlp> _abc_: your questiosn seem to be off into the realm of not useful.
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2018-10-02T18:03:25 < karlp> do you need a debugger _today_?
2018-10-02T18:03:30 < karlp> you said you already had a v2 on oarder.
2018-10-02T18:03:34 < Thorn> it's protection (should be dw01 + 2 fets)
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2018-10-02T18:15:50 < _abc_> I do not yet have a v2 on order, it needs to appear in stock 1st
2018-10-02T18:16:29 < _abc_> karlp: the rlink-std is a product with stock 0 at the distrib. I was wondering what it is since it has no picture.
2018-10-02T18:17:27 < karlp> given that you seem to be desprately looking for somethign today, who cares what rlink is?
2018-10-02T18:17:31 < _abc_> The F100 discovery seems to have a rtc on board too? 
2018-10-02T18:17:47 < karlp> yeah ok, you're just rambling
2018-10-02T18:17:51 < karlp> have a nice afternoon.
2018-10-02T18:17:56 < _abc_> I'm looking to discuss various stm32 related things here if you don't mind.
2018-10-02T18:19:33 < _abc_> So 32L100CDISCOVERY would have a v1 or just a plain stlink on it?
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2018-10-02T18:20:36 < englishman> wat
2018-10-02T18:20:51 < englishman> https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/32l100cdiscovery.html
2018-10-02T18:20:52 < englishman> On-board ST-LINK/V2 with selection mode switch to use the kit as a standalone ST-LINK/V2 (with SWD connector for programming and debugging)
2018-10-02T18:21:42 < englishman> has this guy been asking the same question for an hour
2018-10-02T18:21:59 < _abc_> Not for that board, also, I asked, then found that.
2018-10-02T18:22:27 < karlp> yeah, I tried saying, "karlp | yes, the vl disco is the _only_ place you can get a stlinkv1.
2018-10-02T18:22:55 < karlp> karlp | there's only one board that has a stlinkv1, that's the vl disco.
2018-10-02T18:23:08 < karlp> karlp | everything since either has v2 or v2.1
2018-10-02T18:23:16 < englishman> whats stlink v1?
2018-10-02T18:23:22 < _abc_> lol
2018-10-02T18:23:34 < Thorn> vl disco is like the very first board with the oldest ever stm32, who on earth would use it for new projects in 2018
2018-10-02T18:23:35  * karlp hi5s englishman
2018-10-02T18:23:46 < englishman> sounds ancient
2018-10-02T18:23:47 < karlp> romanians apparently
2018-10-02T18:23:54 < dongs> Thorn: some poor romanian, who's more poor than you apparently
2018-10-02T18:23:57 < _abc_> Because the little boards with F103s are equally old?
2018-10-02T18:24:06 < karlp> what now?
2018-10-02T18:24:15 < englishman> st-link/v2 released april 2011
2018-10-02T18:25:20 < englishman> original st-link released aug 2010
2018-10-02T18:29:42 < _abc_> You persuaded me to switch to a stm32l100discovery
2018-10-02T18:29:57 < _abc_> It's your fault if it does not work now ;)
2018-10-02T18:30:48 < _abc_> *if it will not work when it arrives
2018-10-02T18:30:48 < karlp> if you only want it as a debugger, a l100 disco will be a much better choice than a vl disco.
2018-10-02T18:31:11 < _abc_> I see a lot more flash on the l100. But my real target will be F103s for a while
2018-10-02T18:31:14 < karlp> you'll gain SWO and reset control, and also have a better target board to play with in the l100 instead of the old vl.
2018-10-02T18:31:14 < BrainDamage> nothing forbids you to just use the stlink portion of the discovery
2018-10-02T18:31:26 < BrainDamage> and use whatever chip you want to target
2018-10-02T18:31:32 < karlp> the whole purpose is to get a stlink anyway aiui
2018-10-02T18:31:34 < BrainDamage> you can even saw off the stlink, literally
2018-10-02T18:31:42 < _abc_> Sure. I was just hoping for a 1 stop solution.
2018-10-02T18:31:51 < _abc_> BrainDamage: yeah I saw that done :)
2018-10-02T18:32:14 < _abc_> It seems to be a 4 layer board, no?
2018-10-02T18:32:26 < zyp> wat https://www.totalphase.com/company/newsletter/oct2018-can-usb-i2c-spi/
2018-10-02T18:32:34 < karlp> _abc_: why the fuck do you care how it's implemented?
2018-10-02T18:32:42 < dongs> zyps got competition
2018-10-02T18:32:57 < zyp> dongs, no, the campaign
2018-10-02T18:32:59 < _abc_> You are rather loud karlp. In the interest of cleanly cutting, the layer count matters ;)
2018-10-02T18:33:08 < zyp> «For a limited time, you can receive a $5 Starbucks eGift Card with your purchase of a Promira Serial Platform.»
2018-10-02T18:33:34 < karlp> no, it doesn't
2018-10-02T18:33:38 < zyp> that promira shit starts at $450
2018-10-02T18:33:41 < karlp> buy a nucleo and just snap it off,
2018-10-02T18:33:45 < _abc_> Right, have a nice afertnoon.
2018-10-02T18:33:46 < karlp> or just don't bother cutting it at all anyway
2018-10-02T18:34:04 < karlp> the fr4 is harder to cut than inner layers of copper
2018-10-02T18:34:10 < dongs> people who buy totalphase aardvark aren't worried about costrs
2018-10-02T18:34:23 < dongs> because just about every vendor posts aaardvakcompatible i2c/spi/etc register files
2018-10-02T18:34:30 < dongs> so they know when they buy that shit, tehy can get to work right away
2018-10-02T18:34:38 < karlp> what would make you think that the layer count would change how easy it is to cut a pcb?
2018-10-02T18:35:03 < dongs> gerbers or altium files for ALL discovey boards (and nucleo) ARE available.
2018-10-02T18:40:42 < aandrew> yep
2018-10-02T18:40:45 < aandrew> I've used 'em
2018-10-02T18:40:55 < aandrew> they're dense board designs too
2018-10-02T18:41:06 < aandrew> good for beginners to see how a pro board is set up and done
2018-10-02T18:41:46 < aandrew> it's not the copper that makes PCBs hard to cut
2018-10-02T18:41:56 < aandrew> fiberglass is ridiculous to cut
2018-10-02T18:41:58 < karlp> yeah, I tried saying that.
2018-10-02T18:42:10 < karlp> apparently I'm negative though
2018-10-02T18:42:20 < aandrew> you're super negative
2018-10-02T18:42:27 < karlp> double negative?
2018-10-02T18:42:27 < aandrew> I can't believe I'm talking to you in fact
2018-10-02T18:42:28 < aandrew> heh
2018-10-02T18:42:42  * _abc_ sees only aandrew lalala
2018-10-02T18:43:06 < aandrew> _abc_: I'd strongly recommend not /ignoreing karlp. he's one of the good ones here
2018-10-02T18:43:08 < karlp> awesome. asks questions, ignores the people who answer them.
2018-10-02T18:43:29 < _abc_> Is there some line card or graphical selection of stm32's. The naming conventions are completely opaque for me so far.
2018-10-02T18:43:33 < Steffanx> _abc_ comes from #avr. Nuff said right?
2018-10-02T18:43:53 < karlp> _abc_: st has page for the introduction to the family with charts and maps. have you at least looked there?
2018-10-02T18:43:56 < aandrew> _abc_: only on their site, you can kind of see the family price/performance charts for the verious families
2018-10-02T18:44:03 < _abc_> aandrew: we all have bad days. Tomorrow we'll forget everyhing and start over.
2018-10-02T18:44:28 < _abc_> Steffanx: I come from asm programming on i8085 and cp/m and worse things. I'm an older guy. I need to move into stm32 for technical reasons.
2018-10-02T18:44:51 < aandrew> _abc_: you'll like stm32 I think. #stm32 maybe not as much
2018-10-02T18:44:51 < _abc_> aandrew: I tried to find something like a line card or graph...
2018-10-02T18:44:59 < Thorn> _abc_: stm32cubemx
2018-10-02T18:45:03 < _abc_> hehe.
2018-10-02T18:45:09 < karlp> _abc_: so, did you look at st's website at all?
2018-10-02T18:45:11 < Laurenceb124> _abc_ yeah rogallo wings are interesting
2018-10-02T18:45:12 < Thorn> file -> new project -> WOW FUCK ME
2018-10-02T18:45:32 < aandrew> _abc_: you ahven't seen https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus.html ?
2018-10-02T18:45:38 < aandrew> literally first hit on google for "stm32"
2018-10-02T18:45:42 < Laurenceb124> I made a "descent vehicle" for balloon payload recovery using a rogallo wing in 2009
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2018-10-02T18:45:49 < karlp> hrm, guess I should congratulate abc, they got lolrence to talk about rocketry again instead of his usual crap :)
2018-10-02T18:45:51 < Laurenceb124> muh first serious atmega168 project
2018-10-02T18:45:51 < Thorn> there're all the disco/nucleo boards there, not just the ICs
2018-10-02T18:46:16 < Laurenceb124> karlp: I was afk cuz someone actually turned up at work
2018-10-02T18:46:41 < Laurenceb124> now we HAVE to hire an audio test chamber to calibrate our microphones
2018-10-02T18:46:50 < _abc_> Hm. F1 means F100 family right?
2018-10-02T18:47:01 < _abc_> aandrew: I was looking at that, slowly comprehending.
2018-10-02T18:47:09 < Thorn> f100 is f1 VL, there is also f102, 103, 105, 107
2018-10-02T18:47:25 < Thorn> maybe also 101, can't remember
2018-10-02T18:47:27 < Laurenceb124> my suggestion to shout at them with a Cirrus research mic strapped onto the side was turned down...
2018-10-02T18:47:31 < Thorn> it's all old and should be NRND
2018-10-02T18:47:46 < Laurenceb124>  "shout at them?! What is this unpro nonsense"
2018-10-02T18:47:47 < _abc_> They say mainline...
2018-10-02T18:47:54 < _abc_> *mainstream
2018-10-02T18:48:03 < karlp> yeah, we want peopel to order millions of _any_ of the others so we can get the volumes up on them, to get them price competitive with fucking f1 shitz
2018-10-02T18:48:36 -!- barthess [~barthess@nat-16-metro-pool-1-ip-2.cosmostv.by] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-02T18:48:56 < Thorn> dunno I saw f103 prices rise a lot, making something like f401 or f072 very competitive
2018-10-02T18:49:12 < karlp> eyah, f400 /401 and 411 are meant to be very price competitive now
2018-10-02T18:49:23 < karlp> what I really want is for l0 to replace f0, 
2018-10-02T18:49:29 < karlp> but can't win em all
2018-10-02T18:49:52 < Thorn> lpc82x ftw
2018-10-02T18:50:05 < Thorn> orders of magnitude less current too
2018-10-02T18:50:15 < Thorn> sadly no usb, can or i2s
2018-10-02T18:52:17 < Steffanx> Ok, but ive seen you around. Must have been in #avr, _abc_
2018-10-02T18:52:17 < _abc_> How is the DSP coprocessor (I assume it is) exposed to the programming environment? Looking now.
2018-10-02T18:52:53 < Thorn> there is no coprocessor, just extra cpu instructions
2018-10-02T18:53:19 < Thorn> mostly not available in F1 lol
2018-10-02T18:53:22 < aandrew> _abc_: largely speaking, STM32 = family, F0x, F1, F2, F4, F7, H7 = core/base features, then the last 2-3 digits are specific features
2018-10-02T18:53:28 < aandrew> s/largely/broadly/
2018-10-02T18:53:37 < _abc_> ok
2018-10-02T18:54:01 < aandrew> F2 and F4/F7/H7 have ethernet, for example
2018-10-02T18:54:24 < Thorn> and f107
2018-10-02T18:54:32 < Thorn> also f2 is DEAD
2018-10-02T18:54:43 < aandrew> F4/F7/H7 are CM4/CM4f, under that is usually CM0, L0 is newer and lower power than F0, I think F0 is also CM0+ rather than CM0
2018-10-02T18:54:55 < aandrew> Thorn: really? I did not know that
2018-10-02T18:55:07 < Thorn> iirc l0 is cm0+, f0 is ordinary cm0
2018-10-02T18:55:09 < aandrew> I only used F2 on one project *for* ethernet
2018-10-02T18:55:19 < Thorn> f4 is f2 with cm4
2018-10-02T18:55:22 < Thorn> afaik
2018-10-02T18:55:25 < Laurenceb124> F2 has no reason to exist
2018-10-02T18:55:25 < aandrew> aha
2018-10-02T18:55:29 < _abc_> F7/H7 seems able to run higher level os's
2018-10-02T18:55:34 < Thorn> I've seen F2 once in a cloned j-link or something
2018-10-02T18:55:49 < jadew> :/ wanted to place an order with farnell, they've locked my account again, reseted my password twice - didn't work
2018-10-02T18:56:02 < Laurenceb124> lulwut, sounds twitter tier
2018-10-02T18:56:07 < jadew> licked on the live support thingie - got in touch with product technical support :/
2018-10-02T18:56:10 < _abc_> jadew: you're the Romanian who blocks all of Romania on Farnell.
2018-10-02T18:56:30 < _abc_> You and the other guy who only ever orders samples.
2018-10-02T18:56:31 < aandrew> _abc_: "higher level OSes" ?
2018-10-02T18:56:37 < jadew> heh
2018-10-02T18:56:38 < _abc_> aandrew: retrobsd etc I assume
2018-10-02T18:56:39 < Laurenceb124> my mum went to Romania with my dad once
2018-10-02T18:56:54 < Laurenceb124> she got beaten by hookers who thought she was a Romanian hooker
2018-10-02T18:57:00 < aandrew> all STM32s are Cortex M, which I dont' think anyone sane runs unix on. FreeRTOS/ChibiOS/etc.
2018-10-02T18:57:03 < jadew> they said I should contact support by email, I told them maybe next time, cuz I already have a mouser order open, I'll use them
2018-10-02T18:57:15 < Laurenceb124> ok tiem to go, bbl
2018-10-02T18:57:33 < _abc_> aandrew: retrobsd is not exactly unix but close enough
2018-10-02T18:57:43 < aandrew> F7/H7 has lots of RAM and Flash and some fast interfaces, that's about it
2018-10-02T18:57:45 < _abc_> aandrew: or rather, it is, but not in a modern way at all
2018-10-02T18:57:49 < Thorn> MCUs are for MCU stuff, leave *nix to cortex-a
2018-10-02T18:57:50 < aandrew> H7 also has cache IIRC
2018-10-02T18:57:57 < aandrew> Thorn: exactly
2018-10-02T18:58:06 < aandrew> _abc_: sounds useless
2018-10-02T18:58:29 < _abc_> http://retrobsd.org/wiki/doku.php/start 
2018-10-02T18:58:43 < aandrew> no thanks, at least not anytime soon
2018-10-02T18:58:53 < _abc_> aandrew: people alredy put it on pic32s with oomph, likely less oomph than F7/H7
2018-10-02T18:59:16 < _abc_> Cracki: shall I talk about running at 1MIPS on a cp/m machine?
2018-10-02T18:59:22 < Thorn> those are software programmers entertaining themselves
2018-10-02T18:59:51 < _abc_> Cracki: you know how slowly windows boots? CP/M booted as slowly, but in text mode only.
2018-10-02T19:00:02 < _abc_> No.
2018-10-02T19:00:23 < zyp> my first computer ran CP/M
2018-10-02T19:00:39 < aandrew> _abc_: yes, and when I was young and stupid I worked hard to get uClinux working on 68k and on Sharc
2018-10-02T19:00:40 < Thorn> in a MCU, the core and the firmware is just a necessary evil to configure peripherals and to do stuff (as little as possible) that peripherals can't
2018-10-02T19:00:44 < aandrew> _abc_: doesn't mean it's useful 
2018-10-02T19:01:10 < _abc_> posix compliant it will not be.
2018-10-02T19:01:12 < aandrew> my first computer ran COMMODE DOOR BASIC v2
2018-10-02T19:01:12 < Thorn> buy a Zynq
2018-10-02T19:01:24 < aandrew> 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE
2018-10-02T19:01:25 < aandrew> READY
2018-10-02T19:01:26 < aandrew> []
2018-10-02T19:01:30 < Thorn> >MCUs are for MCU stuff
2018-10-02T19:01:36 < _abc_> VC20? 64?
2018-10-02T19:01:40 < aandrew> C64 of course
2018-10-02T19:01:49 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-02T19:01:50 < aandrew> I was like 5yo and instantly hooked
2018-10-02T19:01:52 -!- chipant_ [~chipant@27.34.104.30] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-02T19:01:59 < _abc_> I had a friend who had that thing too.
2018-10-02T19:02:04 -!- Laurenceb124 [~laurence@host86-140-184-169.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2018-10-02T19:02:24 < _abc_> haha
2018-10-02T19:02:40 < _abc_> Cracki: did he type in programs in decimal lists od DATA statements?
2018-10-02T19:02:47 < karlp> Cracki: have you tried.... nuttx? :)
2018-10-02T19:02:55 < _abc_> That tends to create psycho killers. Typo at line 711 of 1400
2018-10-02T19:03:16 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compis <- I had one of these, my dad got it from a friend that was a teacher at the local high school when they threw them out
2018-10-02T19:04:05 < _abc_> Cracki: those have gui front ends now
2018-10-02T19:04:56 < aandrew> oh fuck PLC
2018-10-02T19:05:00 < aandrew> ugh ladder logic gives me hives
2018-10-02T19:05:05 < karlp> hehe.
2018-10-02T19:05:08 < _abc_> hehe
2018-10-02T19:05:19 < aandrew> that's not a bad analogy
2018-10-02T19:05:21 < zyp> mine had pascal, I never got far enough to figure out what I could use it for
2018-10-02T19:05:27 < karlp> you can still buy genie nx cheap from rs if you want ladder lgoic, only gui.
2018-10-02T19:05:29 < zyp> but then I were like 5yo at the time too
2018-10-02T19:05:36 < _abc_> HP BASIC anyone?
2018-10-02T19:05:46 < karlp> we used a text mode ladder environmen t on some dos realmode shit at uni
2018-10-02T19:06:09 < karlp> check it out y0, ladders, in windows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mezk8qNcyvo
2018-10-02T19:06:15 < _abc_> You can run a HP calc sim easily now.
2018-10-02T19:07:32 < aandrew> I just fire up bc
2018-10-02T19:07:38  * _abc_ has a crackberry ancient phone with keys
2018-10-02T19:07:54 < _abc_> But on the pc I use bc, maxima, octave...
2018-10-02T19:08:01 < _abc_> Which I also have on all phones.
2018-10-02T19:08:56 < _abc_> aandrew: just for laughs: this https://www.mips.com/blog/can-it-run-bsd-the-story-of-a-mips-based-pic32-microcontroller/ is much smaller than a F7/H7
2018-10-02T19:09:20 < karlp> Thorn: nice, lpc has 64_byte_ page erase on flash
2018-10-02T19:09:24 < karlp> much nicer for using for configs
2018-10-02T19:09:58 < _abc_> Yes and H7 can have 512k contiguous, 1M total
2018-10-02T19:10:05 < aandrew> what the fuck is the point of "route multiple" if it ignores clearance constraints
2018-10-02T19:10:08 < aandrew> wtf
2018-10-02T19:10:32 < _abc_> kicad?
2018-10-02T19:10:32 < zyp> it doesn't?
2018-10-02T19:10:36 < Thorn> what mech layer do you use for package outlines if any?
2018-10-02T19:10:58 < Thorn> or should I "simply" add 3d models?
2018-10-02T19:11:07 < aandrew> that's what I do
2018-10-02T19:11:33 < Thorn> I'm looking at the CERN lib, they gave lots of weird stuff in mech layers
2018-10-02T19:11:38 < Thorn> *have
2018-10-02T19:14:44 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2018-10-02T19:16:34 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-02T19:17:37 < Thorn> MCP3422: Vdd pin 3, Vss pin 6. MCP3423: Vdd pin 6, Vss pin 3
2018-10-02T19:18:27 < dongs> lol dick32
2018-10-02T19:18:35 < dongs> _abc_: ivan reedman called, wants its stock of PIC32s back
2018-10-02T19:18:46 < karlp> "but muh mipz"
2018-10-02T19:18:47 < _abc_> who?
2018-10-02T19:18:57 < karlp> was zano using pic pic32, or mips pic32?
2018-10-02T19:19:04 < karlp> what is it, mz or something?
2018-10-02T19:19:16 < dongs> pic32mz iirc
2018-10-02T19:19:28 < _abc_> I have a pic32 somewhere in my box of to try things, it's a DIP one. Only advantage. Drop into breadboard.
2018-10-02T19:19:42 < _abc_> Afaik they are the only dip packaged 32 bit mcus
2018-10-02T19:19:52 < karlp> you are wrong :)
2018-10-02T19:19:56 < karlp> lpc800 too.
2018-10-02T19:20:20 < karlp> also, pretty absurd advantage
2018-10-02T19:20:26 < Thorn> afail everybody canceled DIPshit MCUs
2018-10-02T19:20:30 < Thorn> QFN FTW
2018-10-02T19:20:49 < karlp> chopping those legs off.
2018-10-02T19:20:54 < karlp> ADA for teh win!
2018-10-02T19:21:13 < karlp> qfn is just as able as our fully legged brethren!
2018-10-02T19:21:47 < Thorn> more so, you can't do RF with qfp (not no mention dip lol)
2018-10-02T19:22:07 < karlp> can't do rf with digital anyway man.  gotta be t000bs
2018-10-02T19:22:19 < kakimir> LPC mentioned
2018-10-02T19:24:27 < _abc_> no rf with qfp? Really? See ESP8266?
2018-10-02T19:29:12 < karlp> .... comes in qfn?
2018-10-02T19:29:17 < karlp> what are you talking about?
2018-10-02T19:29:18 < _abc_> Been looking at mcu's used on nucleo boards, vs datasheet briefs. I think I am getting the naming convention more or less.
2018-10-02T19:30:46 -!- chipant_ [~chipant@27.34.104.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
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2018-10-02T19:31:27 < _abc_> Why is  NUCLEO-F103RB 2x more money than the stm32vldiscovery ?!
2018-10-02T19:31:30 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2018-10-02T19:31:41 < karlp> ~all discoveries are same price,
2018-10-02T19:31:49 < karlp> vl is cheap because your distro is trying to get rid of it.
2018-10-02T19:31:58 < _abc_> I guess devel board prices are not really relevant.
2018-10-02T19:32:01 < karlp> no, they're not.
2018-10-02T19:32:07 < karlp> they're completly subsidized
2018-10-02T19:32:24 < _abc_> Ahh a nice overview table by features and sizes https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers/stm32f103.html?querycriteria=productId=LN1565
2018-10-02T19:33:03 < englishman> lol @ coming in a new channel and immediately /ignoring the best person to answer your questions
2018-10-02T19:33:38 < _abc_> Hey I do not wear lameproof underwear.
2018-10-02T19:33:44 < _abc_> +f
2018-10-02T19:37:32 < Steffanx> Good luck in ##stm32 then :P
2018-10-02T19:37:51 < _abc_> As I said, some people have bad days. Maybe another day will be less bad.
2018-10-02T19:38:18 < Steffanx> Time to make it a good day.
2018-10-02T19:38:24 < Steffanx> You can change. You can do it :D
2018-10-02T19:38:28 < englishman> or you can /ignore everyone and just talk to yourself all the time like Cracki does
2018-10-02T19:38:30 < Thorn> hello Mr. englishman Sir please have some jumping kitteh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkepmDQlCHM
2018-10-02T19:38:32 < aandrew> Steffanx++
2018-10-02T19:38:40 < _abc_> I can! I need to get the can from the kitchen though. And the peanuts!
2018-10-02T19:38:47 < aandrew> _abc_: this channel in particular needs a fairly thick skin
2018-10-02T19:38:54 < _abc_> I noticed.
2018-10-02T19:39:00 -!- m4ssi [~massi@host138-130-static.62-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2018-10-02T19:39:08 < aandrew> dongs scared off one of the better contributors, aside from himself about a year ago
2018-10-02T19:39:10 < _abc_> lol here we go again
2018-10-02T19:39:10 < englishman> good luck with that
2018-10-02T19:39:11 < Steffanx> nah, aandrew. We show our love in a different way.
2018-10-02T19:39:21 < englishman> lol what "contributor"
2018-10-02T19:39:29 < Steffanx> o6?
2018-10-02T19:39:31 < Steffanx> leeloo?
2018-10-02T19:39:37 < englishman> still waiting
2018-10-02T19:39:38 < aandrew> lots of smart people here but yeah.. very little social whatever
2018-10-02T19:39:44 < aandrew> yeah leeloo
2018-10-02T19:39:50 < englishman> """"contributor"""
2018-10-02T19:39:53 < Steffanx> That was me :P
2018-10-02T19:40:04 < Steffanx> I kicked here, that was the end of leeloo
2018-10-02T19:40:08 < Steffanx> *her
2018-10-02T19:40:16 < englishman> """"""""""her""""""""""""
2018-10-02T19:40:19 < aandrew> englishman: say what you want, she knew her stuff and did contribute more than most
2018-10-02T19:40:19 < _abc_> Hah. 
2018-10-02T19:40:22 < aandrew> yeah yeah
2018-10-02T19:40:25 < Steffanx>  /kick englishman Not funny.
2018-10-02T19:40:26 < karlp> I found it hard to take leeloo seriously when they pasted code snippets as images
2018-10-02T19:40:36 < aandrew> everyone's got their oddities
2018-10-02T19:40:40 < Steffanx> ^
2018-10-02T19:40:43 < karlp> the biggest loss in my mind is where's peterm?
2018-10-02T19:40:50 < Steffanx> peterm is still around
2018-10-02T19:40:52 < Steffanx> sometimes
2018-10-02T19:40:54 < aandrew> I don't remember peterm
2018-10-02T19:40:59 < Steffanx> just too busy studying to be in ##stm32
2018-10-02T19:40:59 < englishman> pee term is around
2018-10-02T19:41:07 < Steffanx> PeterM is here.
2018-10-02T19:41:15 < aandrew> oh
2018-10-02T19:41:18 < englishman> i think the python rotted his brain
2018-10-02T19:41:19 < Steffanx> How can you forgot him
2018-10-02T19:41:21 < Steffanx> forget
2018-10-02T19:41:24 < aandrew> peterm, I was thining p-term and it wasn't clicking
2018-10-02T19:41:32 < Steffanx> hah
2018-10-02T19:41:42 < Steffanx> Do you miss ReadError?
2018-10-02T19:42:06 < Steffanx> Cracki, he does not. He has a good ignore crap thing. Like dongs.
2018-10-02T19:42:08 < englishman> i have noone on /ignore
2018-10-02T19:42:21 < englishman> your chats are simply ignorable
2018-10-02T19:42:23 < aandrew> leeloo was able to not work so had developed some odd habits, like spending endless hours building up C++ and SystemVerilog code that I don't think anyone else could ever use, but that wasn't her goal
2018-10-02T19:42:41 < aandrew> I don't have anyone here on ignore either
2018-10-02T19:42:47 < englishman> jadew does the same useless crap without being an absolute douchebag
2018-10-02T19:42:52 < aandrew> in fact I think the only person I have on ignore is a shitposter on another network
2018-10-02T19:43:12 < aandrew> yep 3 ignores, 2 are HMM bots that just got too fucking annoying
2018-10-02T19:43:17 < aandrew> and one's a human shitposter
2018-10-02T19:43:23 -!- chipant__ [~chipant@27.34.104.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2018-10-02T19:43:31 < aandrew> readerr, I remember that guy
2018-10-02T19:43:38 < aandrew> I don't remember if he had anything technical to contribute
2018-10-02T19:43:45 < Steffanx> I heard he is dead. but englishman wont confirm nor deny.
2018-10-02T19:43:49 < englishman> he emoquit irc for unrelated reasons
2018-10-02T19:43:52 < karlp> readerr has some useful stuff in the zypsnips at least.
2018-10-02T19:44:30 < Steffanx> One so attached to irc like ReadError cannot quit like that. thats just unacceptable.
2018-10-02T19:44:40 < karlp> even are2commie is in zypsnips
2018-10-02T19:46:01 < englishman> just emailed readerror
2018-10-02T19:46:03 < englishman> to see
2018-10-02T19:46:11 < Steffanx> ty
2018-10-02T19:46:12 < englishman> he's probably wealthy and happy and has a nice tan
2018-10-02T19:46:26 < karlp> eh, too hard to sort zypsnips by irc nicks
2018-10-02T19:46:33 < Steffanx> he's black. He told me that, i believed him. So a nice tan he has.
2018-10-02T19:46:37 < englishman> he is
2018-10-02T19:46:42 < englishman> we did crimes together irl
2018-10-02T19:46:45 < aandrew> I need to learn how to use altium's "deep" paste buffer
2018-10-02T19:46:50 < aandrew> so I can easily reselect previously selected groups
2018-10-02T19:46:55 < englishman> always got away with it thanks to black privilege
2018-10-02T19:47:03 < aandrew> LOL
2018-10-02T19:48:09 < aandrew> I keep expecting englishman to be ave
2018-10-02T19:48:14 < aandrew> er AvE
2018-10-02T19:48:40 < Steffanx> The tarduino guy?
2018-10-02T19:48:45 < aandrew> heh yeah
2018-10-02T19:48:56 < Steffanx> nah, then there would be 15 cats in the vids and no dogs.
2018-10-02T19:49:01 < aandrew> although I don't think he's done anything arduino in a long time now that he's a youtube celebrity
2018-10-02T19:49:07 < malinus> wtf "tarduino" haha
2018-10-02T19:49:30 < karlp> lots of zyp, dongs, peterm, ultrasauce, braindamage, jpa, kliment, emeb, englishman, aandrew
2018-10-02T19:49:38 < Steffanx> arduino retard = tarduino, malinus . Did you know.
2018-10-02T19:49:46 < Steffanx> *didnt
2018-10-02T19:49:50 < emeb> karlp: I am somebody!
2018-10-02T19:49:54 < karlp> emeb: you are!
2018-10-02T19:50:01 < karlp> I'm so rarely in your timezone though!
2018-10-02T19:50:02 < malinus> Steffanx: I figured it out ;)
2018-10-02T19:50:07 < karlp> survive the hurricane or whatsit?
2018-10-02T19:50:26 < karlp> oh thorn too, can't forget thorn
2018-10-02T19:50:34 < emeb> karlp: it's moving over atm. not bad tho - gentle rains that the desert is happy to have.
2018-10-02T19:50:35 < Steffanx> and karlp
2018-10-02T19:50:42 < aandrew> wtf am I doing in zypsnips
2018-10-02T19:50:52 < karlp> Steffanx: I'm actually not in the zypsnips much...
2018-10-02T19:50:56 < karlp> I dont' tend to quote myself.
2018-10-02T19:51:08 < Steffanx> ill do the pull request next time.
2018-10-02T19:51:13 < karlp> inzvim, qyx, gxti are all there too.
2018-10-02T19:51:15 < karlp> all helpful people
2018-10-02T19:51:42 < Steffanx> crt and Steffanx are missing. Why would that be :o
2018-10-02T19:51:47 < kakimir> anyone have Cambridge Audio DacMagic XS?
2018-10-02T19:51:59 < malinus> What's the current state of libraries for stm32? It's so confusing with hal (and cubemx), the arm libraries, and the low level stm32 libraries (that has been discontinued???). I guess HAL is the go-to if you want some portability between series?
2018-10-02T19:52:03 < karlp> audio-cheap.txt:18:51 <Steffanx> Just ask what crt would do. He's into amplification
2018-10-02T19:52:11 < karlp> documentation-sources.txt:15:20 < karlp> Steffanx: what's that literature source website? for freeing scientif papers?
2018-10-02T19:52:15 < Steffanx> damnit.
2018-10-02T19:52:17 < karlp> you're in there twice :)
2018-10-02T19:52:25 < aandrew> heh that's sci-hub
2018-10-02T19:52:32 < aandrew> just google for sci-hub to find the latest TLD they're using
2018-10-02T19:52:42 < jadew> am I in there?
2018-10-02T19:52:44 < karlp> yeah, the next line of that file has that, and some alternatives
2018-10-02T19:53:01 < aandrew> malinus: I just use hal. not sure what everyone else uses
2018-10-02T19:53:13 < aandrew> dongs uses keil becuase he likes to spend money for no good reason
2018-10-02T19:53:13 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/search?q=jadew&unscoped_q=jadew
2018-10-02T19:53:46 < Steffanx> jadew's desk is gone
2018-10-02T19:54:08 < karlp> oh :(
2018-10-02T19:54:12 < karlp> leeloo's is still there
2018-10-02T19:54:14 < jadew> it's probably not current anymore anyway
2018-10-02T19:54:31 < karlp> oh jadew links are always shitty temporary IPs anyway
2018-10-02T19:54:40 < malinus> aandrew: what's the overhead like? I haven't really looked into HAL yet, but performance hit and flash size is a big no-no for me.
2018-10-02T19:55:06 < karlp> malinus: off to ##asm4evah then I guess.
2018-10-02T19:55:18 < Steffanx> i dont think the HAL is reaaally portable
2018-10-02T19:55:20 < aandrew> malinus: it's not bad but that's always up to your implementation and requirments
2018-10-02T19:55:25 < aandrew> try it and fine tune what you need
2018-10-02T19:55:33 < karlp> you can always chop and change
2018-10-02T19:55:47 < malinus> sure, I'm just wondering if it's like arduino var AVR8 (very bad)?
2018-10-02T19:56:05 < malinus> karlp: nah I don't mind low-level libraries, like libopencm3
2018-10-02T19:56:08 < emeb> lol @ my Locutus doll pic on zypsnips
2018-10-02T19:56:13 < Steffanx> malinus, i think many non-libopencm3 users, use the LL* stuff that comes with the HAL. LL stuff is more like the old peripheral libs.
2018-10-02T19:56:25 < _abc_> malinus: smallest stm32 is umpteen times larger than largest avr8
2018-10-02T19:56:26 < Steffanx> and then there is this guy, doing his own C++ libs. 
2018-10-02T19:56:35 < _abc_> malinus: no concern for extra table sizes usually
2018-10-02T19:56:53 < Steffanx> where is that emeb ?
2018-10-02T19:57:31 < malinus> ah okay, Steffanx! I got a bit confused about the naming and all. I guess LL is what I probably should look more into.
2018-10-02T19:57:47 < Steffanx> LL stuff = low level something. it
2018-10-02T19:57:50 < emeb> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/016f9d20021ec9329ed114a76a4a2b47a331d299/dolls-on-pcbs.txt
2018-10-02T19:57:52 < Steffanx> s part of the HAL
2018-10-02T19:58:23 < karlp> feel free to send updates to desk pics, dolls on pcbs, or anything else.
2018-10-02T19:58:52 < antto> malinus o hai there
2018-10-02T19:59:31 < aandrew> https://bin.jvnv.net/f/xlA5N.JPG <-- wtf is U2 on that one
2018-10-02T19:59:37 < aandrew> and who curates zipsnips?
2018-10-02T19:59:53 < BrainDamage> aandrew: the hint is in the url
2018-10-02T19:59:57 < aandrew> yeah I just saw that
2018-10-02T20:00:00 < aandrew> nevermind my stupidity
2018-10-02T20:00:07 < englishman> aandrew: antenna
2018-10-02T20:00:21 < englishman> https://www.antenova.com/product/2-4-2-5/
2018-10-02T20:00:58 < aandrew> aha
2018-10-02T20:01:11 < aandrew> not really a "U" then is it
2018-10-02T20:01:24 < englishman> idk, U could mean any integrated circuit, no?
2018-10-02T20:01:42 < karlp> that's pretty old too, iirc, it predates zyp even joining here iirc
2018-10-02T20:02:12 < _abc_> Unit 2
2018-10-02T20:02:38 < _abc_> Some pcb making software defaults to Uxx refdes.
2018-10-02T20:02:49 < _abc_> I assume someone made the footprint and did not change the prefix.
2018-10-02T20:03:00 < Steffanx> i bet this was eagle
2018-10-02T20:03:06 < englishman> haha
2018-10-02T20:03:15 < _abc_> Pirated or not, that is the question.
2018-10-02T20:03:23 < _abc_> I'd say 4 layer, thus, pirated?
2018-10-02T20:03:26 < englishman> no that is dicktrace
2018-10-02T20:03:26 < _abc_> <cough>
2018-10-02T20:03:32 < aandrew> no eagle's default is something like U$1$ or someshit
2018-10-02T20:03:33 < englishman> can tell from the typeface
2018-10-02T20:03:52 < Steffanx> lies.
2018-10-02T20:04:22 < _abc_> Would you agree that the highest powered nucleo kit is NUCLEO-H743ZI ? 
2018-10-02T20:04:39 < emeb> for now
2018-10-02T20:04:42 < karlp> probably, but is it what you want to use?
2018-10-02T20:04:44 < _abc_> I read the nucleo datasheets and performance numbers till now, sorted by price.
2018-10-02T20:04:51 < _abc_> while you were having fun.
2018-10-02T20:04:52 < karlp> earlier you were just looking for a debugger for f103s
2018-10-02T20:05:03 < karlp> h7 has a lot of other complexities.
2018-10-02T20:05:26 < _abc_> Someone is smoking me from below. Horrible sweetish smell. Ick.
2018-10-02T20:05:50  * emeb saw "swedish smell"
2018-10-02T20:06:08 < emeb> probably smells like dill
2018-10-02T20:06:09 < _abc_> Is that a thing? Surstromming? brr
2018-10-02T20:06:43 < _abc_> I am surprized only the higher end nucleos sport a RJ45.
2018-10-02T20:06:58 < karlp> well, you have to have ethernet before you would even consider it...
2018-10-02T20:07:08 < karlp> the nucleo144 formats hve them, if the part supports it.
2018-10-02T20:07:20 < karlp> there's also disco boards with ethernet 
2018-10-02T20:07:36 < karlp> but are you looking for an ethernet enabled dev board? or a debugger for f103 projects?
2018-10-02T20:07:44 < karlp> or am I still just ignored anyway....
2018-10-02T20:07:58 < _abc_> https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/nucleo-h743zi.html looks like it also has the st-link v2-1 with re-enum and vcom
2018-10-02T20:08:12 < Steffanx> Try /unignore karlp, _abc_  :P
2018-10-02T20:08:25 < _abc_> It's too early ;)
2018-10-02T20:08:31 < Steffanx> more like too late.
2018-10-02T20:09:45 < _abc_> Well he was right on the nucleo boards offering more including the "snap off" stlink so I owe him an apology for that. But the rest... 
2018-10-02T20:09:47  * emeb wonders if cheap chinese USB-stick ST-Links can be firmware updated...
2018-10-02T20:10:08 < _abc_> emeb: I asked that earlyer here, it is dangerous to ask such questions.
2018-10-02T20:10:12 < karlp> emeb: heard mixed reports. some said "yah no problems" some said, "bricked my shit"
2018-10-02T20:10:13 < _abc_> Half joking.
2018-10-02T20:10:48 < emeb> I've got a couple that I never use - may try
2018-10-02T20:11:18 < _abc_> emeb: read the forum entries you can find on this. Some people bricked theirs. Apparently going for the highest fw version does that sometimes.
2018-10-02T20:12:32  * emeb roots around in the big bag of cheap chinese ebay/aliexpress crap
2018-10-02T20:12:52 < emeb> so many unused ESP8266 boards...
2018-10-02T20:14:06 < Thorn> ##stm32: more drama than a soap opera
2018-10-02T20:15:44 < Steffanx> More wild cats than a zoo.
2018-10-02T20:16:43 < karlp> not as many as russia though
2018-10-02T20:16:56 < karlp> targetted in what way?
2018-10-02T20:17:19 < Thorn> Steffanx: can't be all drawbacks, there have to be benefits too 
2018-10-02T20:18:08 < emeb> ETOOMANYDEVBOARDS
2018-10-02T20:18:38 < karlp> resolved: wont fix, not a bug!
2018-10-02T20:18:47 < aandrew> emeb: heh yeah I have a big storage container full of them
2018-10-02T20:18:48 < emeb> this!
2018-10-02T20:21:07 < emeb> Firmware update worked
2018-10-02T20:22:23 < Thorn> like a 40-foot container?
2018-10-02T20:22:28 < aandrew> haha no not like that
2018-10-02T20:22:30 < Thorn> moneyed westerners
2018-10-02T20:22:37 < aandrew> I'm crazy but not that crazy
2018-10-02T20:23:54 < emeb> think of all the dusting
2018-10-02T20:23:58 < englishman> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/adafruit-industries-llc/2548/1528-1982-ND/6827110
2018-10-02T20:24:00 < englishman> lol
2018-10-02T20:24:22 < englishman> digikey bought hundreds
2018-10-02T20:24:40 < karlp> wat, adafruit branded ones?
2018-10-02T20:24:58 < karlp> wouldn't hve thought that went with their philosophy on IP and attribution
2018-10-02T20:24:59 < englishman> https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/Adafruit/2548?qs=%2fha2pyFadugKKs1chv%252bjJS%2f9tWR7Qrz2Icw8DIFWDrM%3d
2018-10-02T20:25:01 < englishman> mouser too
2018-10-02T20:25:04 < englishman> hahahhahahahahhaha
2018-10-02T20:25:05 < englishman> what?
2018-10-02T20:25:08 < englishman> ethics?
2018-10-02T20:25:12 < englishman> aidsfruit?
2018-10-02T20:25:13 < englishman> hahahahahha
2018-10-02T20:25:22 < karlp> well, they used to...
2018-10-02T20:25:26 < emeb> DK / Mouser have been reselling lots of Adafruit / Trenz / Olimex stuff.
2018-10-02T20:25:36 < emeb> because makers are money
2018-10-02T20:25:46 < englishman> since when has aidsfruit not been a direct china resell
2018-10-02T20:26:59 < englishman> looks like arrow is too smart to buy their cloner shit
2018-10-02T20:27:21 < karlp> emeb: yeah, their own stuff, but not these direct china bits
2018-10-02T20:27:43 < karlp> huh, never even heard of trenz
2018-10-02T20:27:56 < emeb> german outfit - does lots of FPGA stuff
2018-10-02T20:29:57 < aandrew> my storage containers look like this but not that expensive: https://www.amazon.com/Akro-Mils-39120-21-5-Inch-12-5-Inch-Distribution/dp/B005MWAA10?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_9
2018-10-02T20:30:32 < aandrew> I standardized on them, every project goes in one container, and I also organize arduino shit in one, dev boards in one (almost time for two), RF stuff in one, etc, etc.
2018-10-02T20:30:46 < aandrew> I have an ammo box for lipoly batteries
2018-10-02T20:31:55 < _abc_> aandrew: and it's an ammo box in case they try to go Nova?
2018-10-02T20:32:22 < _abc_> Apparently all Lithium was made bz exploding Supernovae. When they blow up they just want to go home...
2018-10-02T20:32:29 < _abc_> *by
2018-10-02T20:32:46 < karlp> you need to check your periodic table
2018-10-02T20:32:49 < aandrew> _abc_: yep. they're in a metal ammo box and the ammo box is kept in a concrete room without anything combustible
2018-10-02T20:32:51 < karlp> lithium is really early.
2018-10-02T20:33:06 < karlp> only shit heavier tahn iron is supernova guts
2018-10-02T20:34:17 < _abc_> I have a stainless steel 'dish' I keep new Li's in before we get to know each other better.
2018-10-02T20:34:30 < _abc_> But there are various cells littering desks etc everywhere.
2018-10-02T20:35:07 < aandrew> yeah I have some lithium batteries out most times but I try to keep the bulk of them well out of the way where they can cause trouble in case they do go weird
2018-10-02T20:35:08 < _abc_> 2 years ago I discarded a puffed up Li from a Nokia 3310 iirc phone, last known good in 2006 or so. 
2018-10-02T20:35:18 < _abc_> It still had voltage on the terminals when I found it.
2018-10-02T20:35:25 < aandrew> want to build a little cinder block "box" for the charging station
2018-10-02T20:36:06 < _abc_> Apparently the fire danger never ceases. The battery can be dead dead, the few grams of Li are still inside and waiting for a reason.
2018-10-02T20:37:04 < aandrew> yep
2018-10-02T20:37:10 < aandrew> li only needs oxygen
2018-10-02T20:37:35 < aandrew> and there are lots of good lipoly that even when punctured doesn't go apeshit but you never know what you're getting
2018-10-02T20:37:41 < _abc_> It has all it needs inside the cell. 
2018-10-02T20:37:44 < aandrew> a verified supply chain is too expensive
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2018-10-02T20:43:40 < Streaker> puncture tests are standard these days. every datasheet says they tested the battery by piercing with a nail and there was no fire 
2018-10-02T20:45:04 < zyp> I should probably store my old quadrotor lipo batteries saner
2018-10-02T20:45:27 < zyp> for the past couple of years they've been sitting somewhere in a moving box
2018-10-02T20:46:40 < BrainDamage> store them underwater to limit explosion damage :J
2018-10-02T20:47:12 < zyp> should I do that with my car too?
2018-10-02T20:47:33 < BrainDamage> yup, you can always trust internet advice
2018-10-02T20:47:43 < zyp> thanks
2018-10-02T20:50:49 < zyp> stopped by the house yesterday to admire the electrician's work, looks like I'm getting quite some circuits: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/M69U7.jpg
2018-10-02T20:53:33 < Steffanx> was the quad board done in eagle zyp ?
2018-10-02T20:53:58 < zyp> mine? yeah
2018-10-02T20:54:08 < Steffanx> dont tell englishman
2018-10-02T20:54:25 < englishman> lol
2018-10-02T20:54:34 < englishman> i forgot there was more than one weeb in this channel
2018-10-02T20:54:40 < zyp> it was done a couple of years before I got my hands on altium
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2018-10-02T20:55:04 < zyp> englishman, how do you like my electrical panel?
2018-10-02T20:55:18 < englishman> so far so good
2018-10-02T20:55:20 < zyp> the fat conduit on the bottom runs outdoor, for charging and shit
2018-10-02T20:55:34 < englishman> is it electric heat there?
2018-10-02T20:55:49 < englishman> theres 50% too much copper tho
2018-10-02T20:56:03 < zyp> yeah?
2018-10-02T20:56:15 < Streaker> Why does it have a grille?
2018-10-02T20:56:36 < zyp> left side is low voltage section, i.e. networking
2018-10-02T20:56:40 < BrainDamage> englishman: 50% too much copper? do you want uk's split ring circuits?
2018-10-02T20:56:56 < zyp> grille is for screwing mounts for network equipment into
2018-10-02T20:57:22 < englishman> soon it will look like this https://i.redd.it/pwk20xat8hs01.jpg
2018-10-02T20:57:35 < Steffanx> eewh
2018-10-02T20:57:48 < zyp> that electrical panel actually have the most decent low voltage section I've seen, usually they are much smaller
2018-10-02T20:58:00 < BrainDamage> need water and gas lines converging into the same point
2018-10-02T20:58:02 < zyp> and I'm not really planning to keep much in there
2018-10-02T20:59:36 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/b6YhW.jpg <- here's the shed behind the carport
2018-10-02T20:59:48 < zyp> with conduit that I'll eventually run to a subpanel
2018-10-02T21:05:01 < Rickta59> looks more like garden hose than home electrical wiring
2018-10-02T21:06:41 < zyp> no, all home electrical wiring here is like that
2018-10-02T21:07:33 < BrainDamage> that conduit is pretty standard here as well, just black instead
2018-10-02T21:07:53 < Steffanx> Most boring part is that the wires are already in the the tube.
2018-10-02T21:08:26 < Steffanx> Where is the fun in that.
2018-10-02T21:08:34 < zyp> Steffanx, yeah, it's because electricians are lazy
2018-10-02T21:08:40 < zyp> the ones I ran are all empty
2018-10-02T21:09:01 < BrainDamage> is it called probe in english?
2018-10-02T21:09:12 < zyp> what is?
2018-10-02T21:09:36 < BrainDamage> the flexible plastic 'wire' that you send in a conduit, to guide the wire
2018-10-02T21:09:45 < zyp> I think it's called fish tape
2018-10-02T21:11:32 < Steffanx> That's what wikipedia calls it indeed
2018-10-02T21:11:44 < Steffanx> Dragfjäder
2018-10-02T21:12:01 < zyp> is that dutch?
2018-10-02T21:12:04 < zyp> sounds swedish to me
2018-10-02T21:12:12 < Steffanx> no, its swedish indeed.
2018-10-02T21:12:16 < Steffanx> Trekveer would be dutch
2018-10-02T21:12:27 < zyp> in norwegian, it's trekkefjær
2018-10-02T21:13:13 < zyp> but yeah, the dutch is still recognizable :)
2018-10-02T21:14:37 < qyx> zyp: interesting they are using "bare" wires in a conduit
2018-10-02T21:15:12 < BrainDamage> qyx: here's rather common
2018-10-02T21:15:16 < Steffanx> Yeah, why not?
2018-10-02T21:15:18 < zyp> qyx, as in not in a cable?
2018-10-02T21:15:36 < qyx> yes
2018-10-02T21:15:41 < zyp> the conduit serves as the outer shroud, that's the point of the conduit
2018-10-02T21:15:43 < qyx> here electricians are too lazy to do that
2018-10-02T21:16:00 < qyx> they are using double insulated wires without conduits
2018-10-02T21:16:05 < BrainDamage> ewww
2018-10-02T21:16:18 < Steffanx> hah
2018-10-02T21:16:23 < qyx> ie. cyky (3G2.5)
2018-10-02T21:16:48 < qyx> but I am about to do it the same way as zyp
2018-10-02T21:16:53 < qyx> I am preparing conduits now
2018-10-02T21:17:02 < qyx> forgot to make a photo though
2018-10-02T21:17:14 < Steffanx> But without the pre-wired conduit? pre-wired makes live so much easier.
2018-10-02T21:17:47 < qyx> without, because I am doing 230V TN-S and then 48V PELV
2018-10-02T21:18:07 < Steffanx> ah
2018-10-02T21:18:16 < zyp> what do you mean by 230V TN?
2018-10-02T21:18:27 < zyp> L-N is 230V, or L1-L2?
2018-10-02T21:18:43 < emeb> definitely fishtape in US
2018-10-02T21:18:50 < qyx> this is an offgrid system so only a single phase here
2018-10-02T21:19:03 < zyp> ah
2018-10-02T21:19:03 < qyx> L-N is 230V
2018-10-02T21:19:22 < zyp> fair, just found the terminology a bit weird
2018-10-02T21:20:08 < BrainDamage> what's the power supply?
2018-10-02T21:20:11 < qyx> adn my electrical panel is in a 60x200cm schrack case
2018-10-02T21:20:33 < qyx> together with lifepo4 batteries
2018-10-02T21:22:35 < qyx> whats on the second photo with the air ducts?
2018-10-02T21:22:59 < qyx> is it a wooden floor?
2018-10-02T21:29:04 < malinus> antto: hello there. I think we know each other :)? Don't be offended I'm terrible with names.
2018-10-02T21:34:45 -!- brabo [~brabo@globalshellz/owner/brabo] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-02T21:37:59 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-7ee0e253.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-02T21:48:10 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-02T21:57:01 < zyp> qyx, no, it's a ceiling
2018-10-02T21:57:50 -!- barthess [~barthess@nat-16-metro-pool-1-ip-2.cosmostv.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
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2018-10-02T22:03:36 < qyx> theres only a roof above it?
2018-10-02T22:04:03 < jpa-> hm, lots of backlog and someone even hilighted me
2018-10-02T22:05:20 < zyp> qyx, it's the outdoor shed attached to the house
2018-10-02T22:06:16 < zyp> it got a roof to keep water out, and then there's a balcony above that
2018-10-02T22:06:43 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/FVANz.jpg <- in between the houses here, pic's a couple of weeks old
2018-10-02T22:07:06 < zyp> also, is it right to call that a balcony?
2018-10-02T22:08:55 < zyp> it is now, but I don't have any more recent photos
2018-10-02T22:09:05 < zyp> or wait, hang on
2018-10-02T22:10:11 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/n7ge0.jpg <- here's how it looked from the back yesterday
2018-10-02T22:10:35 < zyp> and yes, the alcove between the houses will be a carport
2018-10-02T22:10:49 < zyp> which is what we call garages that are not enclosed on all sides
2018-10-02T22:11:18 < zyp> I may at some point in the future put up a garage door to turn it into a garage
2018-10-02T22:11:18 < qyx> I don't get the exterior stairs
2018-10-02T22:11:24 < qyx> there are none inside?
2018-10-02T22:11:31 < zyp> of course there are
2018-10-02T22:11:57 < qyx> and whats the purpose of the exterior one?
2018-10-02T22:12:01 < zyp> so anyway, I think balcony is the wrong term, what do you call an elevated deck like that in english?
2018-10-02T22:12:32 < zyp> qyx, to get up and down without going through the house
2018-10-02T22:13:23 < BrainDamage> more importantly, is the load bearing of the deck sufficient for a small swimming pool?
2018-10-02T22:13:45 < zyp> haha, I've been wondering myself, kinda doubt it
2018-10-02T22:14:00 < zyp> I figure if I'm building a pool, might as well put it on the ground behind the house
2018-10-02T22:14:52 < zyp> also, regarding the outdoor stairs, I suspect it might be easier to carry furniture up there than getting it up through the indoor stairs
2018-10-02T22:15:12 < zyp> the proper stairs haven't been mounted yet, but they're gonna fit in here: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/7FhNz.jpg
2018-10-02T22:15:18 < zyp> curving around 180 degrees
2018-10-02T22:16:02 < zyp> outdoor stairs is straight up and the balcony door is double wide, so getting in furniture there should be easy enough
2018-10-02T22:16:56 < zyp> :D
2018-10-02T22:17:34 < zyp> the indoor ones?
2018-10-02T22:17:44 < zyp> very temporary :p
2018-10-02T22:17:59 < zyp> and weathered too, probably been reused a bunch of times :p
2018-10-02T22:18:22 < zyp> not sure when the permanent ones are coming
2018-10-02T22:18:50 < zyp> haha
2018-10-02T22:20:10 < zyp> stuff's taking form fairly rapidly, they got up most of the upstairs ceilings last week: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/SjILi.jpg
2018-10-02T22:20:54 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/t3yXW.jpg <- and one of the downstairs rooms
2018-10-02T22:21:23 < qyx> we are doing the roof now https://i.imgur.com/XYl0Psi.jpg
2018-10-02T22:22:01 < zyp> nice
2018-10-02T22:22:18 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-02T22:22:27 < zyp> qyx, you say offgrid, will this be some recreational thing?
2018-10-02T22:22:28 < qyx> but no interior yet
2018-10-02T22:22:39 < qyx> it depends, yes for now
2018-10-02T22:22:43 < zyp> like a cabin in the wood
2018-10-02T22:22:44 < zyp> s
2018-10-02T22:22:55 < BrainDamage> qyx: what do you use as power supply?
2018-10-02T22:22:58 < qyx> the grid is ~400m far
2018-10-02T22:23:22 < qyx> BrainDamage: 6 PV panels now
2018-10-02T22:23:46 < qyx> but there is space on the roof for 16x PV and 8x thermal
2018-10-02T22:24:11 < _abc_> 400m of rated outdoor wiring is going to bankrupt you
2018-10-02T22:24:30 < _abc_> you can buy Diesel for your generator for a year of 24/7 operation with that money
2018-10-02T22:24:35 < qyx> yes because of complications which come with it
2018-10-02T22:25:03 < _abc_> And yet, the long term solution is to get it wired in.
2018-10-02T22:25:23 < _abc_> Because at some point the Diesel cost is going to break even with the line's cost.
2018-10-02T22:25:42 < _abc_> Did you go solar+wind or just solar?
2018-10-02T22:26:06 < qyx> I plan to go solar + wind + cogeneration if required
2018-10-02T22:26:31 < qyx> and no, I am not going to put a diesel generator in the garden
2018-10-02T22:26:31 < _abc_> If you have any cloudy days at all... you need all 3.
2018-10-02T22:26:44 < _abc_> Ooh, LPG cogeneration?
2018-10-02T22:26:51 < qyx> yes probably
2018-10-02T22:27:05 < _abc_> LPG is almost 3 times as much money as Diesel.
2018-10-02T22:27:15 < zyp> unless you have super cheap electricity, solar should pay off itself even before you factor in the cost of getting on the grid
2018-10-02T22:27:22 < _abc_> Caring it into the boonies where usually only Diesel is supplied is extra
2018-10-02T22:27:39 < _abc_> zyp: don't you have Winters?
2018-10-02T22:27:46 < zyp> yeah?
2018-10-02T22:28:18 < _abc_> In this country, European Temperate Continental Climate (haha), it's normal for 10/10 overcast skies to be present for 3-4 months of the year.
2018-10-02T22:28:29 < _abc_> Unsurprizingly, wind farms are more popular than solar.
2018-10-02T22:28:32 < zyp> I mean, I've just been running the math for a grid tied solar installation
2018-10-02T22:28:44 < zyp> I'm in norway, so I doubt I have better weather than you
2018-10-02T22:28:45 < _abc_> But some of those overcast days are *also* quite windless.
2018-10-02T22:28:48 < BrainDamage> you can just average insolation tiered per month, season and year on the internet
2018-10-02T22:28:59 < BrainDamage> it's easy to do budget calcs with those
2018-10-02T22:29:00 < _abc_> zyp: your wx is more dynamic due to the sea.
2018-10-02T22:29:08 < zyp> true
2018-10-02T22:29:09 < _abc_> zyp: I am far inland, 300km from the sea.
2018-10-02T22:29:44 < _abc_> BrainDamage: averages don't help when the lights go out after "average" 20 days of no sun's worth of LPG is spent.
2018-10-02T22:29:52 < zyp> but the variation doesn't matter for the solar installation itself, what matters is total/average yearly production
2018-10-02T22:29:55 < _abc_> BrainDamage: you need to plan for peaks, holes in this case.
2018-10-02T22:30:06 < BrainDamage> _abc_: budget, not peak handling
2018-10-02T22:30:13 < _abc_> BrainDamage: This may mean planning to run on backup cogeneration on LPG for 3-4 months.
2018-10-02T22:30:31 < BrainDamage> you use average for the payoff, not to avoid blackouts
2018-10-02T22:30:42 < _abc_> What payoff?!
2018-10-02T22:30:50 < zyp> investment costs
2018-10-02T22:31:12 < _abc_> Wow, thinking ahead. How about not freezing to death while the years to pazyoff pass by.
2018-10-02T22:31:35 < BrainDamage> well, the topic was the payoff, therefore I mentioned payoff
2018-10-02T22:31:42 < _abc_> Superinsulating the house is a much better investment than any solar and wind system in temperate climates, beyond 45 degN or S.
2018-10-02T22:31:48 < BrainDamage> if you jump topic in your head, it's not my problem
2018-10-02T22:31:53 < _abc_> Note I am at 45 degN and most of Europe is NORTH of this
2018-10-02T22:32:07 < zyp> I'm also talking about payoff, not peak demand
2018-10-02T22:32:15 < _abc_> Interestingly, USA is South of 45 degN. In USA Ottawa is at 45 degN iirc.
2018-10-02T22:33:07 < zyp> I'm at 58N
2018-10-02T22:33:27 < _abc_> So you get crazy long days in Summer and the opposite in Winter.
2018-10-02T22:33:49 < _abc_> Does the bloody sun even set properly for 3 hours in Summer where you are?
2018-10-02T22:33:51 < jpa-> solar electricity for heating sounds somewhat strange anyway, i'd assume the main point of solar panels would be to satisfy the electricity usage
2018-10-02T22:34:00 < zyp> eh, crazy is relative
2018-10-02T22:34:20 < _abc_> zyp: yeah, you're South of the Polar Circle. Just barely? Alaska? Canada?
2018-10-02T22:34:31 < zyp> my parents is at 69N, so this feels a lot less crazy than what I grew up with :)
2018-10-02T22:34:32 < _abc_> Oh, Norway.
2018-10-02T22:34:42 < _abc_> zyp: I am sure it does.
2018-10-02T22:35:01 < zyp> jpa-, yeah, for heating you'd use vacuum tubes or something, not PV
2018-10-02T22:35:09 < _abc_> So anyway at least it's quite windy where you are, or should be, so wind is an option for energy.
2018-10-02T22:35:46 < _abc_> jpa-: vacuum insulated solar panels are very popular where the sky is reasonably not covered for long periods of the year.
2018-10-02T22:36:31 < _abc_> zyp: do you get Auroras sometimes where you live? ;)
2018-10-02T22:36:38 < jpa-> yeah, but totally different from keeping the lights on, so i'm not sure how it jumped from generators and PV to "superinsulation"
2018-10-02T22:36:53 < zyp> _abc_, not here in the south, but there's a lot by my parents'
2018-10-02T22:37:25 < _abc_> jpa-: it jumped because roi on superinsulation is much greater and faster than on other ways to spend money on "greening" houses.
2018-10-02T22:37:42 < zyp> brought my wife there last winter, she was really excited to see the auroras four days in a row
2018-10-02T22:37:57 < _abc_> A superinsulated house can get by on 200-400W of heat input in normal Winters (not in Norway). That is probably providable by a single wood fireplace.
2018-10-02T22:39:05 < _abc_> You still need to make electricity somehow, and that, based on location insolation (lack of) and windy conditions (plenty in .no afaik), would be best done by a winterized wind generator, not by solar.
2018-10-02T22:39:11 < _abc_> imo.
2018-10-02T22:39:34 < zyp> why are we talking about norway now? it's qyx that's going off-grid
2018-10-02T22:39:43 < qyx> I don't get it, zyp doesn't need solar
2018-10-02T22:39:53 < _abc_> I mean, a superinsulated house is so efficient, you can effectively keep it cozy by inviting several friends over. One person counts as a 100W always on heat source. 
2018-10-02T22:40:15 < _abc_> Oh strange, I misread who the original poster is.
2018-10-02T22:40:18 < zyp> I still do want solar though, grid-tied, to save on electricity costs
2018-10-02T22:40:27 < aandrew> evacuated solar heating tubes can generate crazy amounts of heat
2018-10-02T22:41:13 < _abc_> Yeah some form of subsidy and or tax trick is what makes most people install and use grid tied systems. Most times it's a ripoff. The payback from the generated power is ridiculously low.
2018-10-02T22:41:25 < _abc_> aandrew: assuming there is sun or at least translucent cloud.
2018-10-02T22:41:28 < aandrew> I was always a fan of using sun/wind to (pre)heat water and use the hot water as a storage battery. you can use that heat to preheat the air in your home, and if you installed resistive heating elements in the cold air return of the furnace it'd cause your furnace to work less
2018-10-02T22:41:36 < jpa-> solar for electricity pays back quite well here also, but it is kind of illusionary - the electricity transmission costs are much higher than the price of the electricity
2018-10-02T22:41:45 < aandrew> now mind you, you guys don't have central heating/ac, it's all boilers and radiators
2018-10-02T22:41:56 < _abc_> jpa-: where are you again?
2018-10-02T22:42:00 < jpa-> .fi
2018-10-02T22:42:03 < zyp> I'm not planning on generating more than I use myself
2018-10-02T22:42:11 < qyx> aandrew: me too, 3m^3 of water in the basement
2018-10-02T22:42:19 < aandrew> I looked at the numbers for going completely off-grid and generating all electricity with a 24/7 natural gas generator here in Ontario (Canada)
2018-10-02T22:42:26 < aandrew> it's *almost* breakeven
2018-10-02T22:42:31 < qyx> and "superinsulated" to make _abc_ happy
2018-10-02T22:42:31 < aandrew> not counting maintenance of the gen and noise of course
2018-10-02T22:42:31 < zyp> and yes, over half the energy cost is transmission fees, so I'd sell for less than I have to buy for
2018-10-02T22:42:39 < _abc_> Heh.
2018-10-02T22:43:01 < aandrew> that is how you know you're getting absolutely raped on electricity in Ontario
2018-10-02T22:43:11 < jpa-> i pay like 0.04e/kWh of the electricity and 0.12e/kWh for the transmission; so yeah, only makes sense to generate for own use, and probably the less electricity people use the more the prices rise because network maintenance costs the same
2018-10-02T22:43:20 < _abc_> aandrew: I read whiny is on the way out and the crazy power prices with her.
2018-10-02T22:43:26 < aandrew> englishman lives in the land of timber and hydro(electric), I think .qc's electricity costs are better
2018-10-02T22:43:39 < _abc_> Canada used to have one of the lowest electricity rates in the world.
2018-10-02T22:43:39 < aandrew> yes Wynne is out
2018-10-02T22:43:46 < _abc_> Cretins changed that for no reason.
2018-10-02T22:43:50 < zyp> jpa-, transmission is less here
2018-10-02T22:43:53 < BrainDamage> here electricity costs 0.24€/kWh ._.
2018-10-02T22:44:07 < aandrew> but now we have Doug Ford who is the retarded drug-dealer brother of the former druggie mayor of Toronto
2018-10-02T22:44:08 < qyx> here about 0.11€
2018-10-02T22:44:25 < aandrew> and who is so drunk on power he was actually convicted of influence peddling... as a city councilor.
2018-10-02T22:44:26 < zyp> I think right now I pay a bit over .1€/kWh in total
2018-10-02T22:44:51 < qyx> but grid-tied solar was heavily subsidied here
2018-10-02T22:44:52 < aandrew> how much of an ass do you have to be to get drunk off the little power you have as a city councilor to try to sell access to that power
2018-10-02T22:44:53 < _abc_> I was reading bitcoin miners flocked to Alberta .ca where power is cheap! They gave up on Iceland which had to pass laws to limit bitcoin power leeches. They got to consume 5% or so of the country's generated output.
2018-10-02T22:45:02 < qyx> they paid back ~0.35€/1kWh afaik
2018-10-02T22:45:03 < aandrew> bitcoin is so lol
2018-10-02T22:45:08 < aandrew> let's just generate heat
2018-10-02T22:45:10 < zyp> but I use a ton of electrivity
2018-10-02T22:45:16 < _abc_> aandrew: think of it as reliable heating in Winter.
2018-10-02T22:45:28 < aandrew> yes: reliable heating and lottery playing
2018-10-02T22:45:41 < aandrew> man that point in the layout when 5mil traces look HUGE
2018-10-02T22:46:01 < zyp> we've got electric everything and two EVs, so I don't expect it'd be much of a problem to use any power I generate myself
2018-10-02T22:46:38 < _abc_> Heh
2018-10-02T22:47:48 < jpa-> here in .fi after a hot summer, people are now talking that too much insulation was a mistake :P
2018-10-02T22:47:58 < aandrew> lol
2018-10-02T22:48:09 < zyp> why? it keeps the heat out as much as in
2018-10-02T22:48:13 < _abc_> jpa-: yes you need to defriend all the people you invited over in Winter for their 100W contribution
2018-10-02T22:48:21 < jpa-> because it is generally between the insides and the structure, well-insulated houses don't store as much heat/coolness to average out the daily variations
2018-10-02T22:48:37 < _abc_> Superinsulated houses are already real but the ventilation in them is not quite there yet
2018-10-02T22:48:48 < _abc_> Need heat exchangers, room sized, and power to run fans.
2018-10-02T22:48:50 < aandrew> routing clock to the stm32 might be important
2018-10-02T22:49:08 < jpa-> but of course part of the reason is that most homes don't have cooling systems at all
2018-10-02T22:49:09 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/s0PV2.png <- my power consumption is pretty fixed throughout the year
2018-10-02T22:49:29 < zyp> despite heating and everything being electric
2018-10-02T22:50:10 < _abc_> jpa-: that's probably not thinking ahead a bit?
2018-10-02T22:50:23 < _abc_> Not providing cooling/ventilation ?
2018-10-02T22:50:40 < zyp> _abc_, also, how much insulation does it need to be called superinsulated?
2018-10-02T22:50:41 < jpa-> ventilation, sure, but cooling has not been of much use
2018-10-02T22:50:45 < _abc_> Most people tend to seal the house to keep warmth in, that ends badly beyond a point.
2018-10-02T22:51:01 < jpa-> last summer was just exceptionally hot
2018-10-02T22:51:02 < _abc_> zyp: There are standards, you can look up the German ones.
2018-10-02T22:51:08 < jpa-> zyp: you use 5 times as much electricity as we do :P
2018-10-02T22:51:16 < englishman> i ran my outdoor hot tub all winter
2018-10-02T22:51:29 < _abc_> I mean a well sealed house like that has no air exchange. Mold is happy, people are not. CO2 can get annoyingly high.
2018-10-02T22:51:54 < zyp> jpa-, I'm also curious where it all goes
2018-10-02T22:52:18 < _abc_> Speaking of bad air, anyone used one of those VOC sensors in a closed house context? Do they indicate other things than teenager room reek?
2018-10-02T22:52:23 < englishman> used 6MWh in january this year
2018-10-02T22:52:24 < BrainDamage> he uses 15 times the amount I do
2018-10-02T22:52:28 < zyp> _abc_, norwegian building rules require ventilation systems with heat exchangers
2018-10-02T22:52:51 < aandrew> the VOC sensor datasheets ahve a pretty good set of response curves for various types of gases
2018-10-02T22:52:51 < _abc_> zyp: pretty sure that is sane
2018-10-02T22:52:56 < zyp> yes
2018-10-02T22:53:00 < jpa-> zyp: though, in winter we do use about 1500kWh/month in central heating (coproduction heat network)
2018-10-02T22:53:05 < _abc_> aandrew: I'll link what I mean ,just a sec
2018-10-02T22:53:10 < aandrew> yeah new home construction here is to build sealed houses and use an HRV or ERV to maintain air quality
2018-10-02T22:53:29 < zyp> jpa-, hehe
2018-10-02T22:53:45 < zyp> I don't have any supplemental heat, it's all electric
2018-10-02T22:53:46 < jpa-> _abc_: our air purifier does indicate e.g. bread baking, deodorant, etc.
2018-10-02T22:53:58 < aandrew> 85%
2018-10-02T22:53:59 < zyp> and car consumption is also factored in
2018-10-02T22:54:07 < zyp> although that shouldn't make up too much of it
2018-10-02T22:55:09 < jpa-> our car use is something like 1000km/month; i guess that would be like 150kWh if it were electric
2018-10-02T22:55:11 < _abc_> I think I meant this one, strange, I see no picture on that site https://ams.com/iaq-core-c
2018-10-02T22:55:21 < zyp> jpa-, yeah, that's what I was just ballparking
2018-10-02T22:55:31 < zyp> 2000km and 300kWh was my numbers
2018-10-02T22:56:04 < zyp> real number should be a bit lower, not all charging is home charging
2018-10-02T22:56:12 < _abc_> zyp: .no has artificially high electricity prices, right? Just like gasoline?
2018-10-02T22:57:00 < zyp> electricity is taxed, sure, but electricity is not really all that expensive here since we have a ton of hydroelectric
2018-10-02T22:57:24 < _abc_> zyp: and yet... you should be at the 3-5 cent/kWh level like Canada, but are not.
2018-10-02T22:57:35 < zyp> two years ago I used to estimate .07 EUR/kWh, all included
2018-10-02T22:57:39 < zyp> now it's a bit over .1
2018-10-02T22:57:52 < _abc_> Heh. We pay about as much! 
2018-10-02T22:58:01 < _abc_> 0.1-0.12
2018-10-02T22:58:03 < zyp> IIRC .02 or .025 of that is direct fees
2018-10-02T22:58:20 < zyp> and then transmission fees and shit
2018-10-02T22:58:40 < _abc_> I read about the price structure of gasoline in UK recently. Out of ~120pennies 40p is the product, the rest is vat levies and taxes.
2018-10-02T22:58:59 < jpa-> here in .fi we did a smart thing, first we built the grid with tax money, then we sold it to foreign investment companies and now they are ripping us off
2018-10-02T22:59:07 < _abc_> So, anyone using an AMS 
2018-10-02T22:59:08 < _abc_> 	
2018-10-02T22:59:15 < _abc_> IAQ-CORE C or P 
2018-10-02T22:59:18 < zyp> meter?
2018-10-02T22:59:30 < _abc_> in a house? Does it show real "bad air"? With a stm32?
2018-10-02T22:59:42 < zyp> oh, air quality sensors
2018-10-02T22:59:47 < _abc_> yes.
2018-10-02T23:00:03 < _abc_> I have doubts they work irl. So I keep asking people if they use them.
2018-10-02T23:00:12 < _abc_> At that price it had better work. But who knows.
2018-10-02T23:00:32 < _abc_> jpa-: here they did that with electricity, water, and gas, and telecom.
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2018-10-02T23:01:32 < _abc_> https://ro.mouser.com/datasheet/2/588/AS-MLV-P2_Datasheet_EN_v2-771171.pdf lower? cost air quality sensor ds, it's about $22
2018-10-02T23:01:35 < _abc_> crt: yes
2018-10-02T23:01:51 < _abc_> crt: you are usually everywhere :)
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2018-10-02T23:02:25 < _abc_> crt: on landfills in Ghana?
2018-10-02T23:02:45 < _abc_> I keep one crt tv, the portable 5in kind, under a desk at a lab.
2018-10-02T23:03:09 < _abc_> I mean that's the only one.
2018-10-02T23:04:19 < _abc_> Interesting, that sensor is highly sensitive to CO. Which is not normally considered a polluted indoor air factor. Maybe it's because cigarette smoking produces CO.
2018-10-02T23:04:41 < con3> hmm... I've got an sdcard that doesn't seem to be able to mount, got 33k pullups on each line and 4 100nF capacitors, I've tried two mcu's, not sure what could be causing it, but dead sure its hardware
2018-10-02T23:04:42 < zyp> looks like total fees on gasoline in norway is around 60%, plus/minus a couple of percent depending on actual price since some fees are per liter and VAT is a percentage of the price
2018-10-02T23:05:04 < _abc_> con3: tried it on a pc/etc?
2018-10-02T23:05:12 < _abc_> con3: fsck it while at it
2018-10-02T23:05:23 < con3> _abc_: works perfectly on a pc
2018-10-02T23:05:28 < con3> cellphone,etc
2018-10-02T23:05:35 < _abc_> con3: did you run a fsck on it anyway.
2018-10-02T23:06:05 < _abc_> Also what fs. It has to be plain vfat or fat nothing new and fancy
2018-10-02T23:06:27 < _abc_> xfat or whatever it is called is not yet supported by many embedded stacks.
2018-10-02T23:06:41 < con3> _abc_: I'm checking quick
2018-10-02T23:06:57 < con3> it fails by each mount with FR_NOT_READY
2018-10-02T23:07:03 < _abc_> also, does another card work in your project?
2018-10-02T23:07:12 < _abc_> not ready would be hw yes
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2018-10-02T23:08:45 < _abc_> I used elmchan's fat sd card access libs with success before.
2018-10-02T23:08:55 < _abc_> They are a little hard to make work but they are very good.
2018-10-02T23:09:09 < _abc_> Not (yet) on stm32
2018-10-02T23:09:42 < _abc_> from here http://elm-chan.org/fsw_e.html
2018-10-02T23:14:36 < _abc_> con3: erm pullup on CLK too?
2018-10-02T23:16:48 < _abc_> I found this page most useful. http://elm-chan.org/docs/mmc/mmc_e.html
2018-10-02T23:17:00 < _abc_> When implementing uSD card access.
2018-10-02T23:17:05 < antto> malinus yeah from allegro
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2018-10-02T23:18:51 < Thorn> looks like quality dark electro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESR5RFAcI5A
2018-10-02T23:20:07 < con3> _abc_: Just checking everything through
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2018-10-02T23:26:44 < englishman> need a $95 cart filler at digikey
2018-10-02T23:26:58 < englishman> even though i spent 15k there this week they wont give me free shipping on $5 of shit i forgot
2018-10-02T23:27:10 < catphish> lol
2018-10-02T23:27:22 < jadew> buy a tool
2018-10-02T23:27:33 < jadew> a nice vise?
2018-10-02T23:27:40 < jadew> maybe some calipers?
2018-10-02T23:28:22 < qyx> buy a reel of 0603 caps for that price
2018-10-02T23:28:49 < catphish> a fine choice
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2018-10-02T23:29:21 < englishman> too bad they dont have club-mate
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2018-10-02T23:32:23 < Steffanx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_compensation lol real quality wikipedia page. With handwritten formulas.
2018-10-02T23:32:35 < Steffanx> digitalized with a camera.
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2018-10-02T23:35:31 < _abc_> Steffanx: and using Greek liberally too.
2018-10-02T23:35:38 < _abc_> Showoff
2018-10-02T23:36:06 < _abc_> So he mastered the Greek but not embedded LaTeX markup
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2018-10-02T23:49:39 < ds2> sigh...yet another metal oxide sensor
2018-10-02T23:51:30 < ds2> is there really that many kinds of MOS sensors other then reducing and oxidizing?
2018-10-02T23:52:07 < _abc_> I assume all are either reducing or oxidizing, but the key is they are reversible, so they do not get exhausted.
2018-10-02T23:52:14 < _abc_> Catalyst based.
2018-10-02T23:52:57 < ds2> they are all reverseable but limited life due to poisoning 
2018-10-02T23:53:21 < _abc_> Oh yes. All the gas sensors in the house need replacing ... we have them indoors...
2018-10-02T23:53:37 < ds2> from what I can find, they are all: metal oxide (Sn and W seems to be common) plus a dopant
2018-10-02T23:53:44 < _abc_> I used to get a BEEEP from cleaning anything with alcohol one room over, after 5 minutes. Now, nothing.
2018-10-02T23:53:51 < _abc_> I don't think the alcohol is more diluted ...
2018-10-02T23:54:36 < ds2> but all those sensors coming on the market seems to be just as broad
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2018-10-02T23:55:18 < _abc_> There are more specific ones but much more expensive.
2018-10-02T23:55:40 < ds2> got an example?
2018-10-02T23:55:52 < ds2> there are the electrochemical cell ones and NDIR ones 
2018-10-02T23:55:56 < _abc_> What's bothering me is, they are still using the huge power hungry filament tech, I want to see them shrunk and done with MEMS
2018-10-02T23:56:05 < ds2> but I am referring to the MOS ones that everyone and their dog is making
2018-10-02T23:56:07 < _abc_> I linked one above, from AMS
2018-10-02T23:56:20 < ds2> the AMS ones IIRC are MEMS
2018-10-02T23:56:35 < _abc_> Nope, metal oxide. 
2018-10-02T23:56:39 < _abc_> The one I linked.
2018-10-02T23:56:41 < ds2> saw a paper with pictures - the chinese MQ ones are basically an incandence lightbulb with a chunk of metal oxide
2018-10-02T23:56:57 < ds2> the better ones are a nicely etched MEMS structure
2018-10-02T23:56:58 < _abc_> yes, and this one is exactly like that
2018-10-02T23:57:04 < ds2> oh
2018-10-02T23:57:07 < _abc_> filament and metal oxide
2018-10-02T23:57:28 < _abc_> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/CJMCU-811-CCS811-monitors-indoor-air-quality-digital-gas-sensors-Winder/1245924_32796353360.html this is probably mems
2018-10-02T23:57:28 < ds2> don't AMS make the MiCS-XXXX series too?
2018-10-02T23:57:44 < _abc_> CCS811 and friends. I think they do ds2 
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2018-10-02T23:58:01 < ds2> the paper I saw was about a MiCS-XXXX series (forgot which one)
2018-10-02T23:58:17 < ds2> maybe it is the dev boards but the CCS811 seems to be the most disappointing
2018-10-02T23:58:24 < _abc_> ds2: precisely this one https://ams.com/ccs811
2018-10-02T23:58:41 < _abc_> Why most disappointing? Used one?
2018-10-02T23:59:44 < ds2> the CCS811 is in the SiLabs Thunderboard and the Nordic Thingy
2018-10-02T23:59:53 < _abc_> Yes and ? Used it?
2018-10-02T23:59:54 < ds2> both take FOREVER to get a reading out of it
--- Day changed Wed Oct 03 2018
2018-10-03T00:00:08 < _abc_> Ah. They are measuring bare ppm you know.
2018-10-03T00:00:23 < ds2> yes... I have a Thiny running 24x7 logging to MQTT and graphted via rrdtool (mrtg backend)
2018-10-03T00:00:41 < ds2> yes but I get quicker responses from other stuff like the chinese MQ series
2018-10-03T00:00:50 < ds2> or electrochemcial sensors
2018-10-03T00:01:21 < ds2> going to test the other offerings when I get time (Sensiron and the Bosch ones)
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2018-10-03T00:04:14 < ds2> _abc_: it comes down to measuring resistance... ppm is one way of interpreting it
2018-10-03T00:04:41 < ds2> it can't tell if I have X ppm of ethanol (i.e. vodka) vs Y ppm of propane
2018-10-03T00:04:53 < ds2> and according to the graphs the scaling is different
2018-10-03T00:05:30 < ds2> maybe it is trying to be smart and blanking the readings til it thinks they are valid... *shrug* just disapointed
2018-10-03T00:05:37 < _abc_> Nice, apropos Winter heating, someone came up with heater paint. You paint it on the walls, connect edge contacts, and feed it power. Power level is up to 500W/m^2.
2018-10-03T00:06:15 < _abc_> ds2: do read a ppm signal in an ocean of noise one integrates for a long time, Kalman filters outliers, then decimates.
2018-10-03T00:06:42 < _abc_> This does take forever when the measuring part is only 12 real bits accurate and the value you seek requires 20 bits
2018-10-03T00:07:14 < _abc_> Plus they probably use some magic sauce filters.
2018-10-03T00:07:51 < _abc_> Way back when they used and I think they still use quartz crystals, exposed to room air, to measure dust in cleanrooms. Any dust landing on the xtal slows it down, increasing mass.
2018-10-03T00:08:03 < _abc_> That is a good example of ppm measurement.
2018-10-03T00:08:52 < _abc_> In that context, getting a 1ppm change on an xtal takes some interaction, not just a little.
2018-10-03T00:09:43 < _abc_> I used to hand tune quartz crystals on a counter. By adding little dabs of laquer or by rubbing some of the plated on silver/aluminum off. It's a fun passtime.
2018-10-03T00:10:12 < _abc_> The laquer would dry in place and the frequency shifted with evaporating VOCs
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2018-10-03T00:18:03 < ds2> _abc_: that is possible but compared to others....
2018-10-03T00:19:03 < ds2> these are nonspecific sensors and I really doubt that it can measure to even 1 ppm. It responds to most VOCs and it responds in log not linear
2018-10-03T00:19:40 < ds2> _abc_: interesting... I read about using graphite to do that... what's the long term stability of those tweaked xtals/
2018-10-03T00:19:50 < ds2> oh blah
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2018-10-03T00:33:25 < Thorn> what's a generic name for ws2812 etc. leds? other than "neopixel"(R)(TM)
2018-10-03T00:41:00 < aandrew> Thorn: smart rgb leds?
2018-10-03T00:41:05 < aandrew> serial rgb leds?
2018-10-03T00:46:15 < Steffanx> Smart led?
2018-10-03T00:46:34 < Steffanx> What mr andrew said
2018-10-03T00:47:22 < Steffanx> Got me some FR-5 PCBs, crt?
2018-10-03T01:02:56 < BrainDamage> daily crap link https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=lPkz_ippXfw
2018-10-03T01:03:51 < Steffanx> Ty braindamage
2018-10-03T01:04:55 < englishman> very good
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2018-10-03T01:14:58 < englishman> https://www.irishnews.com/magazine/2017/03/05/news/meet-nyango-star-the-japanese-children-s-character-who-plays-heavy-metal-drums-953610/
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2018-10-03T01:25:03 < Laurenceb124> 6 hours later...
2018-10-03T01:25:13 < Laurenceb124> muh chamber
2018-10-03T01:25:41 < Thorn> ok smart led it is
2018-10-03T01:25:44 < Thorn> thanks
2018-10-03T01:29:40 < Laurenceb124> >use uber pro chamber
2018-10-03T01:30:01 < Laurenceb124> >pro megabux microphones match within 0.02dB of datasheet spec
2018-10-03T01:30:14 < Laurenceb124> who could have foreseen this
2018-10-03T01:35:21 < Laurenceb124> Harry Pothead and the chamber of audio testing
2018-10-03T01:38:05 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/PptSqjf4
2018-10-03T01:45:45 < Laurenceb124> as long as it's not Hackitten
2018-10-03T02:07:59 < catphish> quick question to same me having to do effort and research for myself - any idea what protocol(s) i might use to transmit data between my st95hf and an android phone? it seems that it doesn't support p2p per-se but i guess a card emulation mode will be fine, but i'm a little confused about AIDs and what protocol(s) to use
2018-10-03T02:11:44 < Laurenceb124> what is st95hf?
2018-10-03T02:12:15 < Laurenceb124> with AIDs you have to remember not to die of ignorance
2018-10-03T02:12:43 < catphish> yes, very valuable contribution
2018-10-03T02:16:01 < Laurenceb124> you can probably do nfc with Qt...
2018-10-03T02:16:59 < Laurenceb124> http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qtnfc-overview.html
2018-10-03T02:18:48 < catphish> i didn't even know people used qt on android
2018-10-03T02:19:11 < catphish> seems like ndef is the standard i need to be reading
2018-10-03T02:21:14 < Laurenceb124> aiui its fairly popular for app development
2018-10-03T02:21:36 < Laurenceb124> seems to support android more reliably than lunix desktop in many cases
2018-10-03T02:23:02 < Laurenceb124> in my experience the bluetooth support is epin on all platforms
2018-10-03T02:23:10 < Laurenceb124> actually make bluetooth useable on linux
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2018-10-03T02:29:04 < aandrew> JTAG chain routed, including SWD/JTAG switch
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2018-10-03T03:28:04 < aandrew> on STM32 if I'm using OSCIN with a clock (not a crystal) can I use OSCOUT as digital I/O?
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2018-10-03T03:38:19 < karlp> (fwiw, iceland didn't pass anything to "limit bitcoin")
2018-10-03T03:39:01 < karlp> one datacenter owner got bought and had to actually justify some bills and charge sustainable rates, and a few bitcoiners left.
2018-10-03T03:39:16 < karlp> more importantly, some dudes raided _three_ datacenters and just _stole_ all the bitcoin rigs
2018-10-03T03:39:28 < karlp> that's why most bitcoiners left iceland, they couldn't actually _trust_ to be here.
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2018-10-03T03:54:11 < karlp> Steffanx: hehe, that wiki page is gnarly :)
2018-10-03T03:54:36 < karlp> my mum complained the other day that she'd gotten sucked into editing wikipedia pages and it wsa a time suck
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2018-10-03T03:58:13 < karlp> zyp: we're using more like 150kWh/month here.
2018-10-03T03:58:42 < karlp> I don't get how two cars can get you to 1300 or something
2018-10-03T03:59:23 < karlp> now, heating is separate (and ~free) here so that's just stove, fridge, washing machine, lights and phone chargers and stuff
2018-10-03T04:03:05 < dongs> lol, was aandrew talking about leeloominai
2018-10-03T04:03:15 < dongs> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hubsan-zino-4k-uhd-drone#/ also: nice product name
2018-10-03T04:07:27 < dongs> leooloo wasn't contriburing shit
2018-10-03T04:07:29 < dongs> except drama
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2018-10-03T05:12:12 < aandrew> 90.7%. jesus this is taking forever
2018-10-03T05:14:59 < dongs> how the fuck do you even determine %age
2018-10-03T05:15:08 < dongs> is there a box in altidumb that shows it?
2018-10-03T05:15:52 < aandrew> yep
2018-10-03T05:15:56 < aandrew> reports, board info, then report
2018-10-03T05:16:28 < aandrew> I only have "routing information" checked and thenc lick on report
2018-10-03T05:16:48 < aandrew> 2722 connections, 2471 routed, 251 left
2018-10-03T05:17:01 < aandrew> most of that is just I2C i've been leaving to last since it doesn't matter
2018-10-03T05:17:40 < aandrew> well maybe not most.. 8 buses with pullups is probably only 24-25 nets
2018-10-03T05:20:37 < dongs> i guess they moved taht shit somewehre else in altidumb18
2018-10-03T05:20:42 < dongs> youre still on 17?
2018-10-03T05:21:59 < aandrew> yeah
2018-10-03T05:27:17 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/baTahcS
2018-10-03T05:27:24 < aandrew> that's were I'm at so far
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2018-10-03T05:28:52 < dongs> not enough SMA
2018-10-03T05:28:57 < dongs> paging kikemir
2018-10-03T05:29:11 < aandrew> MCX
2018-10-03T05:36:45 < dongs> funny level: tumblr
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2018-10-03T05:56:07 < cjbaird> woo. Nucleoes in the E14 car package have arrived. No FT818, though.
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2018-10-03T06:29:16 < cjbaird> That "Mr Fluffy" Asbestos House Of Death that's been in AU news lately was just two houses up from where I grew up. The first my Mum knew about it was when the controlled+sealed demolition crew set up..
2018-10-03T06:30:24 < cjbaird> Mr Fluffy would've been a brand some time before "Mr Bubbles" got his pedo on here..
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2018-10-03T07:29:13 < aandrew> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/016f9d20021ec9329ed114a76a4a2b47a331d299/children.txt
2018-10-03T07:29:33 < aandrew> my (at the time) 3yo found wire cutters and decided to make a few of my USB devices wireless
2018-10-03T07:29:50 < aandrew> I'm just happy that he didn't decide to cut into a power cable
2018-10-03T07:32:15 < cjbaird> I had a fully tuned and matched dipole for 40 metres in the backyard, and a 16yo visiting next door didn't know what it was and pulled it down to look at it. Ignorant millenial cunt.
2018-10-03T07:39:15 < aandrew> hah
2018-10-03T07:39:33 < aandrew> reminds me of when I was a kid
2018-10-03T07:40:45 < aandrew> dad had this really awesome torsion pendulum clock
2018-10-03T07:40:52 < aandrew> I wound that fucker so tight the spring exploded
2018-10-03T07:41:26 < aandrew> he also had these huge bricks of pipe tobacco that I tried to use as dip
2018-10-03T07:41:34 < aandrew> I sure as fuck remember that lesson
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2018-10-03T07:51:46 < aandrew> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/016f9d20021ec9329ed114a76a4a2b47a331d299/fabhouse.special.rules lol
2018-10-03T07:54:02 < dongs> wasnt there something i was trying to get into zypsnips lately
2018-10-03T07:54:06 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2018-10-03T07:54:07 < dongs> it seemed somewhat important
2018-10-03T07:54:22 < Ultrasauce> <dongs> dongs
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2018-10-03T07:57:04 < Ultrasauce> cjbaird: curiosity is to be commended!
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2018-10-03T08:00:42 < aandrew> < jadew> the message was "Blowjob?" (only 4 letters in romanian :P)
2018-10-03T08:00:43 < aandrew> lol
2018-10-03T08:00:57 < aandrew> I thought blowjob was lamuia (spelled wrong of course)
2018-10-03T08:01:06 < aandrew> pronounce it one way it means lemon
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2018-10-03T08:01:12 < aandrew> pronounce it anoher it means blowjob
2018-10-03T08:01:30 < aandrew> and apparently no non-romanian can distinguish between the prnounciations
2018-10-03T08:01:49 < aandrew> it's a fun thing romanian women like to make their non-ro men try to say
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2018-10-03T08:06:09 < dongs> how gay do you have to be to have a conversation with a female creature about sucking dicks
2018-10-03T08:06:35 < dongs> time to delete all my old win10 versions. no idea why i keep archiving shit like 1511 etc
2018-10-03T08:09:04 < aandrew> I think you misunderstand
2018-10-03T08:09:12 < aandrew> there's no conversation
2018-10-03T08:09:46 < aandrew> it's "hey say lemon in romanian: it's lemuia" so I say it just like she said it, except it's some imperceptable pronounciation difference that makes them giggle
2018-10-03T08:09:58 < aandrew> whatever, as long as blowjobs are forthcoming I don't care
2018-10-03T08:11:22 < dongs> kirkjohncollection.2005-07-25.rar
2018-10-03T08:12:54 < dongs> how dare they publish an article with an empty list
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2018-10-03T09:09:37 < dongs> aandrew: oh, found
2018-10-03T09:09:41 < dongs> its on one of those fucking ~side panels~
2018-10-03T09:09:46 < dongs> ffucking retarded shit omg
2018-10-03T09:10:06 < englishman> its available in the nothing-selected panel right
2018-10-03T09:10:11 < dongs> yes
2018-10-03T09:10:13 < englishman> cuz you need to see that 24/7
2018-10-03T09:11:19 < englishman> theres so little room in the sidebars now
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2018-10-03T09:24:43 < cjbaird> Ultrasauce: the little tard took off, so I couldn't give him a lesson installing wire 20 metres up a tree.
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2018-10-03T09:26:39 < cjbaird> Also-- going into someone else's place, and fucking around with private property..
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2018-10-03T09:40:53 < englishman> too bad you cant shoot him
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2018-10-03T09:59:19 < zyp> karlp, your heating includes hotwater?
2018-10-03T09:59:39 < zyp> I suspect a bunch of it goes to hotwater
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2018-10-03T10:55:25 < Steffanx> Is it?
2018-10-03T10:57:48 < Sadale> An anime a day keeps the real girls away.
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2018-10-03T11:01:32 < Sadale> unfortunately not :P
2018-10-03T11:01:48 < Sadale> Your vid disappoints me. :(
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2018-10-03T11:11:04 < Sadale> Even if I like it I wouldn't call it my waifu :(
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2018-10-03T11:20:25 < jlstrauss> Hi folks, I'm just learning about STM32 timers and wondering what the simplest way to take an external clock from GPIO, divide it by 2 and then output it over another GPIO?
2018-10-03T11:20:58 < dongs> use a couple logic gates
2018-10-03T11:21:06 < dongs> or setup some masterslave timers
2018-10-03T11:21:11 < dongs> but then you're limited to specific gpio
2018-10-03T11:22:06 < zyp> if this is slow and latency isn't very important, you can use an EXTI to toggle the output GPIO on each rising edge (or falling if you prefer)
2018-10-03T11:22:42 < jlstrauss> specific is fine. I have a peripheral that will generate the clock (I2S) to a specified output and I want that to be the input to a timer, which then outputs a clock at half the input frequency
2018-10-03T11:22:50 < dongs> oh its you again
2018-10-03T11:22:57 < dongs> did you read the stuff I pasted you last time
2018-10-03T11:23:50 < jlstrauss> I did, but I'm having trouble reproducing it in a new project using STM32CubeMX 
2018-10-03T11:24:49 < jlstrauss> I have the I2S port set up and it's working fine with one mic, but trying to set the timer up is proving a hassle
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2018-10-03T11:27:20 < dongs> http://comm.eefocus.com/media/download/index/id-1014142
2018-10-03T11:27:24 < dongs> this covers your usecase
2018-10-03T11:29:13 < jlstrauss> That's what I'm basing my setup from, but it just states that the I2S clock output drives the timer. It doesn't describe how to set it up. I'm going through the timer documentation but not having used the STM32 platform before it's a slow process
2018-10-03T11:31:08 < jlstrauss> Last time we talked I was presuming that there was some internal mechanism for peripherals to interact with timers, but it's clear that at least in this case I have to physically connect the clock output to the timer input... I've done this in STM32CubeMX but my remaining problem is how to configure the output channel and how to set up the divisor
2018-10-03T11:31:13 < dongs> your shit doesn't have SAI?
2018-10-03T11:31:20 < zyp> external clock mode, no prescaler, timer wraps at 2, one channel set to output compare at 50% duty
2018-10-03T11:31:31 < dongs> there you go
2018-10-03T11:31:33 < jlstrauss> STM32F412, nope
2018-10-03T11:32:10 < dongs> zyp delivers as usual
2018-10-03T11:32:44 < dongs> spoiler: zyp IS clive1
2018-10-03T11:32:51 < dongs> the secret offline identity
2018-10-03T11:33:23 < jlstrauss> zyp: looks great! I'm going to go through the timer cookbook and work out how to set all of that up.. some of this isn't in cubemx so presumably it's in the peripheral configuration in code
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2018-10-03T11:38:52 < PaulFertser> crt: ty
2018-10-03T11:39:00 < PaulFertser> crt: finally got client TLS certificate working properly to identify me to Freenode.
2018-10-03T11:39:18 < PaulFertser> Sorry for the join/part noise.
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2018-10-03T11:55:42 < Sadale> well, it's just a couple of joins and parts :3
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2018-10-03T12:03:34 < dongs> god dmanit
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2018-10-03T12:05:07 < dongs> jlstrauss: that fucking pdf
2018-10-03T12:05:07 < dongs> page 46
2018-10-03T12:05:07 < dongs> tells you EXACTLY how to configure the timer
2018-10-03T12:05:07 < dongs> in cube
2018-10-03T12:05:07 < dongs> with PICTURES
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2018-10-03T12:18:31 < jlstrauss> dongs: I have no idea how I missed that! I am shamed and will prepare the yubitsume ritual immediately
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2018-10-03T12:33:41 < cjbaird> Dear Blog. Tonight I was making Bombe Alaska. While I was making the meringue, I grabbed the glass with the seperated yolks instead of the caster sugar and poured it in. Tonight I'm making Ice Cream.
2018-10-03T12:42:20 < cjbaird> Just get in the fucking car, morty.
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2018-10-03T12:50:25 < cjbaird> The half of my Newcastle mates who're still alive is like that a bit..
2018-10-03T12:53:04 < cjbaird> The enunciation of 'Bendigo' is on point for the way Mick does it..
2018-10-03T12:57:05 < karlp> zyp: yeah, hot water comes in off the street beside the fibre and the electricity
2018-10-03T12:57:43 < zyp> what's the source? geothermal?
2018-10-03T13:05:58 < PaulFertser> dongs: would you show https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausica%C3%A4_of_the_Valley_of_the_Wind_(film) to your child?
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2018-10-03T13:10:32 < cjbaird> I discovered the KIM Uno kit works a lot better if the power switch is soldered in.
2018-10-03T13:16:33 < cjbaird> A local Pro has been doing stuff like https://sites.google.com/site/gogleoops/sym-1-maxi .. he shows up at the Radio Club occassionally and I test them boards he's designed. Most don't work..
2018-10-03T13:17:08 < cjbaird> He's got a boner for GAL22V10, unfortunately. 
2018-10-03T13:18:40 < cjbaird> And eBay NVRAMs
2018-10-03T13:19:56 < cjbaird> ..and totally got the attitude of 'hurr, if you get a fake, just keep buying from someone else'
2018-10-03T13:36:39 < dongs> PaulFertser: i donno i dont think they would hate attention span for it
2018-10-03T13:37:23 < zyp> haha
2018-10-03T13:37:31 < dongs> err, hate=have
2018-10-03T13:37:41 < zyp> PaulFertser, it's a nice movie
2018-10-03T13:39:13 < PaulFertser> dongs: I hoped you'd answer something like "Sheesh, do you think I want him/her to become an autistic hippie?"
2018-10-03T13:39:41 < dongs> that's too late for that, the autistic hippie stage has already happened
2018-10-03T13:40:42 < PaulFertser> zyp: call me naive but I have a feeling if more children watched that film we'd live in a much better world.
2018-10-03T13:49:04 < Steffanx> The dark pumper 
2018-10-03T13:49:20 < Steffanx> Rises
2018-10-03T13:49:59 < Steffanx> Yes
2018-10-03T13:50:16 < Steffanx> I like it.
2018-10-03T13:50:25 < Steffanx> And the sounds tracks <3
2018-10-03T13:50:40 < Steffanx> But Hans Zimmer is best anyway.
2018-10-03T13:51:20 < PaulFertser> Haohmaru: Nausicaa
2018-10-03T13:51:39 < PaulFertser> Haohmaru: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausica%C3%A4_of_the_Valley_of_the_Wind_
2018-10-03T13:56:26 < karlp> zyp: yar, geothermal.
2018-10-03T13:57:14 < zyp> nice
2018-10-03T13:57:23 < karlp> some parts of the country have electric hot water, but most people have it off thestreets
2018-10-03T13:57:35 < zyp> naturally not something we have here
2018-10-03T13:58:36 < zyp> larger apartment buildings often have common heating, it seems, which might even be supplied from a remote plant
2018-10-03T13:59:07 < zyp> but I don't think many single houses gets hot water from the street
2018-10-03T13:59:18 < zyp> and not gas either
2018-10-03T13:59:55 < karlp> it's something we often forget when on holidays, "what do you mean the hot water 'runs out' ?!"
2018-10-03T14:00:10 < zyp> oil furnaces used to be common, with oil tanks outside the house that got filled once a year or so
2018-10-03T14:00:17 < zyp> but those are more or less outlawed now
2018-10-03T14:00:50 < zyp> ah, by 2020
2018-10-03T14:01:52 < karlp> we've had a couple of fish processing plants in the east that were still running on oil, but I think they're all electric now.
2018-10-03T14:02:01 < cjbaird> Oddly, Eromanga in outback Queensland does 'town hot water'. When I was there visiting, they'd just onlined the drinking water pipes, and keep the old artesian supply that comes out at ~42C
2018-10-03T14:02:21 < zyp> here it seems to be common to replace old oil furnaces with ground/water heat pumps
2018-10-03T14:02:32 < karlp> water comes in off the street at ~75C here
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2018-10-03T14:03:42 < zyp> my impression is that decent heat pump setups has a COP of like 3-5, so they are way more efficient than direct electric heating
2018-10-03T14:04:07 < karlp> COP?
2018-10-03T14:04:15 < zyp> coefficient of performance
2018-10-03T14:04:32 < zyp> i.e. the ratio of the electrical power you put in and the heat power you get out
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2018-10-03T14:06:07 < cjbaird> Barkley Homestead, a rest-stop halfway between Mt Isa and Tennent Creek, had a whole swimming pool of artestian water.. that was saturated with Calcium salts. Do not swim in that pool.
2018-10-03T14:09:19 < karlp> yeah, out west of narrabri there wsa a hot pool
2018-10-03T14:09:28 < karlp> was a little bit basic, but not too bad.
2018-10-03T14:10:09 < karlp> Pilliga.
2018-10-03T14:10:17 < cjbaird> Moree, know it.
2018-10-03T14:10:46 < karlp> https://www.google.is/maps/place/Pilliga+Hot+Bore+Baths/@-30.3526769,148.8995539,15.04z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x6ba0d241d1e696e5:0x40609b49043baf0!2sNarrabri+NSW+2390,+Australia!3b1!8m2!3d-30.3324062!4d149.7812403!3m4!1s0x6ba78f9b037a93a7:0x9084f70282de94fb!8m2!3d-30.3553236!4d148.9069319
2018-10-03T14:11:33 < karlp> how big is the postie bike community in aus?
2018-10-03T14:13:08 < cjbaird> Fairly organized, but mostly around Charity work. It is a staple bike for L-platers, and usually see one every day. Not as impressive as the JP Supercub clubs, though.
2018-10-03T14:13:26 < cjbaird> postie bike wut https://twitter.com/Chris_J_Baird/status/448153673453957120
2018-10-03T14:16:38 < karlp> some friends took 5 posties up to cooktown and beyond a couple of months ago,
2018-10-03T14:17:04 < cjbaird> bikebloggens https://twitter.com/search?q=chris_j_baird%20postie&src=typd
2018-10-03T14:18:15 < cjbaird> A neighbour is the 'Lenny' who's the primary support guy for the Postie Charity rides.. I'm a charity case myself, so I don't bother with them..
2018-10-03T14:18:44 < cjbaird> Very useful having a Licenced Honda Dealer next door, though. :)
2018-10-03T14:22:07 < Steffanx> Zenier it crt
2018-10-03T14:22:47 < karlp> trying to find a pic of the current post bikes here
2018-10-03T14:22:54 < karlp> they're weird electric trike thingies
2018-10-03T14:23:54 < cjbaird> Got there here too. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-07/australia-post-explores-electric-vehicles-for-mail-deliveries/8598036 .. Previously, AusPost cancelled the "CT110X" order, and started getting regular NBC110 model SuperCubs.
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2018-10-03T14:24:47 < cjbaird> They're slow as snails, though (the EV trike). atm they're trying to deal with the reduced delivery speeds
2018-10-03T14:25:24 < karlp> wow, hardcore ROP shit and lids on those.
2018-10-03T14:25:29 < karlp> ours look like a similar base bike.
2018-10-03T14:26:10 < cjbaird> One of those postie charities is "For Men's Mental Health and Suicide Reduction!1" ..but /they/ ride the posties, and give the sick guys money. Completely opposite of what they should be doing. :/
2018-10-03T14:26:36 < zyp> apparently we have several styles in norway
2018-10-03T14:26:48 < zyp> http://www.varden.no/polopoly_fs/1.853858.1398233144!/image/574598891.jpg_gen/derivatives/facelift_980/574598891.jpg
2018-10-03T14:26:59 < zyp> http://www.varden.no/polopoly_fs/1.853855.1398233090!/image/3075450782.jpg_gen/derivatives/facelift_980/3075450782.jpg
2018-10-03T14:27:14 < zyp> https://www.cdn.tv2.no/images?imageUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdn.tv2.no%2Fmultimedia%2FTV2%2Farchive%2F01028%2Fpostbil_1028211a.jpg&width=1000&height=563&compression=75
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2018-10-03T14:28:09 < zyp> yes
2018-10-03T14:28:38 < cjbaird> Ours do look as weak as piss. The CT110X was designed to bunnyhop gutters all day for ~3 years service. The EVs are basically overweight bicycles.
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2018-10-03T14:29:36 < zyp> https://wpstatic.idium.no/elbil.no/2011/04/Blogg110408postentrkjoretoy672.jpg <- more styles
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2018-10-03T15:07:14 < BrainDamage> karlp: I have an inline gas boiler for hot water, I too routinely forget other people can run out hot water
2018-10-03T15:25:18 < dongs> https://gfycat.com/ConsiderateHardAiredale nsfw
2018-10-03T15:28:42 < dongs> #stm32 is not a safespace
2018-10-03T15:30:11 < jpa-> it's somewhat safe for white heterosexual males with balls
2018-10-03T15:36:51 < jlstrauss> dongs: Thanks for pointing out the timer config section. All working now.. I think I stopped reading because I thought that section of the document was referring to the SAI peripheral, not the I2S
2018-10-03T15:37:03 < jlstrauss> I will read more carefully in the future
2018-10-03T15:39:08 < dongs> cool
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2018-10-03T16:24:09 < qyx> zyp: we have this https://lucenec.dnes24.sk/images/photoarchive/sized/700/2015/06/22/IMG-20150622-125202.jpg
2018-10-03T16:24:26 < zyp> :)
2018-10-03T16:27:12 < BrainDamage> here it's http://www.visionedioggi.it/wp-content/uploads/image-744.jpg
2018-10-03T16:29:05 < Streaker> Have you seen the new electric scooters? Insane acceleration...
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2018-10-03T16:39:04 < Thorn> this ADS1230 is much higher maintenance than MCP342x 
2018-10-03T16:39:57 < Thorn> mandatory delay on PWDN pin on startup, weird SPI-like interface with extra clk pulses used to change modes, 16 pins for 1 channel, etc.
2018-10-03T16:41:02 < kakimir> recommend tools
2018-10-03T16:44:43 < Thorn> also funny line in the datasheet change log: "removed NRND notice"
2018-10-03T16:46:28 < kakimir> hmm
2018-10-03T16:50:20 < karlp> how does one calculate the temp rise of a resistor baseed on power dissipation?
2018-10-03T16:50:40 < karlp> even ballpark, there's no theta type figure in resistor datasheets
2018-10-03T16:50:55 < Sadale> Wow. This SW4STM32 thingie is rather limited.
2018-10-03T16:51:35 < Sadale> I just changed the layout of the flash from the default one. And now I have to manually modify the commands to be sent to OpenOCD.
2018-10-03T16:51:51 < Sadale> Without the modification the "run" button just doesn't work.
2018-10-03T16:52:42 < Thorn> "XH power socket (ZH cable included)" https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MicroUSB-Li-Ion-Battery-Charger-1A-TP4056/32652297603.html
2018-10-03T16:52:53 < Thorn> xh and zh have different pitch ffs
2018-10-03T16:53:20 < Sadale> If you wanna buy stuffs from taobao you may ask me for help. I'm living in Hong Kong. :3
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2018-10-03T16:54:12 < zyp> karlp, maybe calculating backwards from power rating and temp limits? :)
2018-10-03T16:54:35 < zyp> karlp, presumably it dissipates enough that it wouldn't burn up at rated power
2018-10-03T16:54:36 < Sadale> Of course, having a proxy like me would add to shipping cost, and possibly a bit handling fee if I do not have anything else to buy from taobao at the moment.
2018-10-03T16:55:00 < dongs> thorn doesnt mind waiting months for aliexpress
2018-10-03T16:55:28 < BrainDamage> I'll wait until you learn Laurenceb's address, then I'll get you to drop ship to him a crate of buttplugs
2018-10-03T16:57:45 < aandrew> Sadale: yeah, IDEs all suck. 
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2018-10-03T16:57:52 < Sadale> :(
2018-10-03T16:58:05 < Thorn> I'll keep that in mind thanks
2018-10-03T16:58:13 < Sadale> If it weren't the GUI debugging function I would have used plain Makefile.
2018-10-03T16:58:38 < dongs> use ozone for debugging and Makefail for your other trash
2018-10-03T16:59:01 < kakimir> recommend load
2018-10-03T16:59:14 < dongs> LOAD "",8
2018-10-03T16:59:25 < kakimir> I think I need 0-30V and many amps
2018-10-03T16:59:39 < kakimir> chinacheap would work for me
2018-10-03T16:59:42 < zyp> fill up your bathtub and put some wires in it, then lie in it
2018-10-03T16:59:50 < zyp> that should be plenty of load
2018-10-03T16:59:52 < kakimir> noice
2018-10-03T17:00:07 < kakimir> add salt to control resistance?
2018-10-03T17:00:22 < BrainDamage> I've used a bucket with baking soda once
2018-10-03T17:00:35 < BrainDamage> yes, the chlorine has the added effect of cleaning your lungs
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2018-10-03T17:04:40 < aandrew> Sadale: ozone is a great gui debugger (needs jlink hardware which is $20 on digikey for edu version)
2018-10-03T17:04:44 < qyx> no Cl in baking soda, isnt it?
2018-10-03T17:04:50 < aandrew> Sadale: ddd is a gdb gui debugger but I have't used it
2018-10-03T17:05:23 < Sadale> ah. I've heard of ddd.
2018-10-03T17:05:26 < zyp> baking soda is NaHCO3
2018-10-03T17:05:32 < Sadale> Perhaps I should try setting it up some days :3
2018-10-03T17:05:39 < aandrew> baking soda is sodium bicarbonate IIRC
2018-10-03T17:05:40 < BrainDamage> qyx: correct, you'll just get caustic soda in the water afterwards
2018-10-03T17:05:57 < BrainDamage> qyx: if instead you use salt, you'll get chlorine gas out
2018-10-03T17:06:04 < Sadale> By debugger I meant software debugger, tho. Just like ddd
2018-10-03T17:06:13 < qyx> BrainDamage: oh I misread it
2018-10-03T17:06:15 < Sadale> I have an el cheapo mini st-link. :P
2018-10-03T17:06:17 < qyx> yep, kakimir mentioned salt
2018-10-03T17:06:33 < aandrew> Sadale: you can turn any stlnk into a jlink with software from segger
2018-10-03T17:06:40 < Sadale> oh cool! :)
2018-10-03T17:06:42 < aandrew> really you're supposed to oNLY use it with nucleo boards etc
2018-10-03T17:06:45 < Sadale> But I would I want to do that?
2018-10-03T17:06:51 < aandrew> because jlink > *
2018-10-03T17:06:57 < dongs> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
2018-10-03T17:07:05 < Sadale> Put it another way, what's somethign taht jlink can do and stlink can't?
2018-10-03T17:07:08 < aandrew> I resisted it for a long long time but then just got sick and tired of shitty tools
2018-10-03T17:07:12 < zyp> Sadale, work?
2018-10-03T17:07:13 < dongs> everything
2018-10-03T17:07:13 < aandrew> now I have like a dozen jlinks
2018-10-03T17:07:26 < BrainDamage> qyx: I can just dump the bucket with gloves and vent the hydrogen, but chlorine would need way better ventilation
2018-10-03T17:08:06 < kakimir> oh and I need CV mode load
2018-10-03T17:08:17 < kakimir> !
2018-10-03T17:08:37 < dongs> kikemir are you still doing batteroo
2018-10-03T17:08:45 < dongs> or you switch to something else now
2018-10-03T17:08:48 < kakimir> it's completed
2018-10-03T17:09:02 < kakimir> now I need load to test led drivers
2018-10-03T17:09:19 < kakimir> actually I get the drivers and then program mcu with my pro code
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2018-10-03T17:16:18 < kakimir> I usually use leds themselfs as load but my "fast" sunglasses are missing
2018-10-03T17:16:42 < kakimir> also if thermal management fails I burn like 70eur worth of leds
2018-10-03T17:19:28 < BrainDamage> do you have an ultrasonic cleaner that fits the leds?
2018-10-03T17:22:04 < kakimir> hmm?
2018-10-03T17:22:09 < kakimir> I just acetone them
2018-10-03T17:22:18 < kakimir> and brush
2018-10-03T17:22:22 < kakimir> cree says no no
2018-10-03T17:22:49 < kakimir> if I want correct lumens I take fresh board
2018-10-03T17:23:02 < kakimir> that has not been abused
2018-10-03T17:23:48 < emeb> just clean everything with fuming nitric acid
2018-10-03T17:23:59 < emeb> scours it down to the leadframe.
2018-10-03T17:24:24 < aandrew> emeb: true but that may affect lumen output
2018-10-03T17:24:31 < kakimir> aqua regia is the solution
2018-10-03T17:24:47 < kakimir> put your project in it
2018-10-03T17:24:54 < kakimir> problem solved
2018-10-03T17:25:04 < emeb> no more problem
2018-10-03T17:26:05 < emeb> I just love the Win 10 1809 updater. Such nonlinear progress indicators.
2018-10-03T17:26:32 < dongs> psh
2018-10-03T17:26:35 < kakimir> love win10
2018-10-03T17:26:41 < BrainDamage> kakimir: if you want power dissipation margin, bury the leds under oil
2018-10-03T17:26:56 < BrainDamage> then monitor temp closely
2018-10-03T17:27:07 < BrainDamage> you'll give you several seconds before they burn
2018-10-03T17:27:15 < kakimir> I'm developing software
2018-10-03T17:27:49 < BrainDamage> bury the hw guy under oil then
2018-10-03T17:28:32 < kakimir> I don't have problem with hw guy
2018-10-03T17:29:16 < englishman> put a little SMT fan next to each led to cool it off
2018-10-03T17:30:02 < kakimir> forced ventilation would be nice but using a load is more style
2018-10-03T17:30:28 < BrainDamage> you'll still have to test with the leds, load is linear, leds aren't
2018-10-03T17:32:00 < kakimir> driver is CC so it should do for simple tests with load
2018-10-03T17:32:51 < kakimir> using leds there is still close to 10000lm to absorb into something
2018-10-03T17:33:15 < kakimir> and I don't want big box
2018-10-03T17:33:24 < BrainDamage> time to get a glorious tan
2018-10-03T17:33:54 < karlp> zyp: well, it's rated to 0.5W, and my dissipation is 0.065W, with +-100ppm/°C, but no theta,
2018-10-03T17:34:01 < karlp> so I can't work out the delta temp
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2018-10-03T17:34:34 < karlp> trying to work out the change in resistance, as that affects my calibration.
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2018-10-03T17:44:35 < aandrew> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/016f9d20021ec9329ed114a76a4a2b47a331d299/simulation.advice.txt
2018-10-03T17:44:52 < aandrew> lol: set country parameter to "china" in sim
2018-10-03T17:50:54 < karlp> back when aretoo was funny and useful and not just ranting
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2018-10-03T18:03:31 < Thorn> "altium-library" inurl:github.com About 962 results
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2018-10-03T18:06:11 < aandrew> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/x/32271771543.html
2018-10-03T18:06:18 < aandrew> anyone know offhand which connector is good for this?
2018-10-03T18:06:24 < aandrew> looks like 30 pin 0.7mm pitch
2018-10-03T18:07:11 < aandrew> they are suggesting hotbar soldering which is less than awesome
2018-10-03T18:14:12 < karlp> I can get theta figures for a through hole resistor in the first one I check, but still not seen a theta figure for a smd chip resistor
2018-10-03T18:14:37 < karlp> aandrew: who cares, "this item is no longer avilable" anywya :)
2018-10-03T18:19:01 < aandrew> karlp: doesn't matter, it's a generic that a million vendors have
2018-10-03T18:19:58 < karlp> yeah I was just being facetious
2018-10-03T18:20:12 < karlp> what am I missing, why is theta not specified for any of this resistors?
2018-10-03T18:22:11 < aandrew> there's an obvious answer but it' sjust not coming to me karlp 
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2018-10-03T18:33:46 < Thorn> found ultimaker altium project on github. 4L board, stackup: signal, signal, power, gnd
2018-10-03T18:35:07 < kakimir> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Maynuo-M9710-Electronic-Load-E-Load-150W-150V-30A-CC-Mode-CV-Mode-CR-Mode-CW/32883696561.html is this worth the money?
2018-10-03T18:35:18 < kakimir> seems like clone of something
2018-10-03T18:39:04 < kakimir> seems properly done
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2018-10-03T18:47:58 < kakimir> what does C say about double operators like +-?
2018-10-03T18:48:17 < kakimir> it will become - right?
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2018-10-03T18:50:08 < kakimir> it's okay, code checker didn't flip about it
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2018-10-03T19:22:52 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/3tDLENw.jpg
2018-10-03T19:22:54 < englishman> ready2pump
2018-10-03T19:24:53 < karlp> electroplater?
2018-10-03T19:25:38 < englishman> electroplating is just a plastic tub and dc supply
2018-10-03T19:25:39 < englishman> so no
2018-10-03T19:26:52 < englishman> pth soldering pot
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2018-10-03T19:44:36 < Thorn> how do I cut a corner off a rectangular pad in altium disaster?
2018-10-03T19:44:45 < h4x0riz3d> hahaah
2018-10-03T19:45:20 < englishman> its not a rectangle anymore then is it
2018-10-03T19:45:37 < dongs> thorn, you don't
2018-10-03T19:45:41 < englishman> draw a poly of copper and put a smaller pad inside it
2018-10-03T19:45:43 < dongs> you make a region and put a small pad in it
2018-10-03T19:46:10 < englishman> way better than dicktrace's method of manually typing in vertices
2018-10-03T19:46:34 < englishman> and probably kikecad's method of importing .csv vertex spreadsheet probably
2018-10-03T19:46:39 < Thorn> lol I'd rather type in coords
2018-10-03T19:46:52 < englishman> then why use EDA at all?
2018-10-03T19:46:55 < englishman> just use excel.exe
2018-10-03T19:47:04 < englishman> and generate your gerber directly from text
2018-10-03T19:47:11 < h4x0riz3d> nah, you make a polygon and put a small pad inside, then select both, right click -> "make pad out of this mess"
2018-10-03T19:47:20 < h4x0riz3d> ^ in kitkad
2018-10-03T19:48:57 < h4x0riz3d> but then you don't get thermal relief on such pads
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2018-10-03T19:55:57 < h4x0riz3d> a talking Skoda
2018-10-03T19:59:09 < Thorn> ok seemed to work thanks
2018-10-03T19:59:36 < kakimir> windows 10 1809
2018-10-03T19:59:55 < kakimir> any negative updates to fear for?
2018-10-03T20:01:01 < h4x0riz3d> gwx.exe
2018-10-03T20:01:03 < h4x0riz3d> oh wait
2018-10-03T20:03:10 < karlp> guess what's inside: https://www.silabs.com/products/wireless/wi-fi/zentri-wi-fi-modules/amw007-wifi-module
2018-10-03T20:04:14 -!- kow_ [~afed@135.0.26.107] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-03T20:08:30 < h4x0riz3d> SiLabs seem to like the word "Gecko" too much
2018-10-03T20:10:19 < h4x0riz3d> i can't decide if "Gecko" sounds worse than "arduino" :/
2018-10-03T20:10:39 < Steffanx> Happy Gecko
2018-10-03T20:11:04 < h4x0riz3d> Roadkilled Gecko
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2018-10-03T20:14:39 < kakimir> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Whiplash-Audio-TWag-v3-TWcu-v3-Hybrid-AKG-replacement-upgrade-cable-K702/281844031962 looking for replacement cable for k702
2018-10-03T20:14:45 < karlp> (it's an esp8266 inside)
2018-10-03T20:14:52 < kakimir> I'm in wrong business
2018-10-03T20:14:55 < karlp> zentri is someone they bought apparently.
2018-10-03T20:15:45 < h4x0riz3d> kakimir you've not seen coconut-audio?
2018-10-03T20:16:01 < kakimir> no
2018-10-03T20:16:04 < h4x0riz3d> aww
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2018-10-03T20:17:04 < h4x0riz3d> enjoy: http://www.audiophile.rocks/
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2018-10-03T20:19:12 < kakimir> can it be that even if you have been smart about audio gear earlier if you get enought money you go slowly nuts 
2018-10-03T20:19:30 < kakimir> and start buying 10k cable sets
2018-10-03T20:19:54 < kakimir> I have new DAC to my laptop
2018-10-03T20:20:01 < kakimir> headphone amp
2018-10-03T20:20:09 < kakimir> really sweet
2018-10-03T20:20:22 < kakimir> I can hear the difference
2018-10-03T20:20:54 < kakimir> and it's loud
2018-10-03T20:21:33 < Steffanx> Does it make the crap you listen to better? :p
2018-10-03T20:21:37 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-03T20:21:42 < emeb> wait wut? SiLabs is reselling ESP8266?
2018-10-03T20:21:52 < emeb> lulz
2018-10-03T20:22:05 < kakimir> Steffanx: I need flacs though
2018-10-03T20:22:51 < dongs> karlp: 32-bit processor operating up to 80MHz core frequency
2018-10-03T20:23:19 < englishman> whoa this solder bath works SO well
2018-10-03T20:24:26 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/Se885Ue.jpg
2018-10-03T20:24:57 < kakimir> Steffanx: I hear the difference because my laptop headphone output failed completelly yesterday
2018-10-03T20:24:59 < dongs> beautiful
2018-10-03T20:26:17 < karlp> https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=d5ZIofy5jPfmy%2Fwx%2FLeYeQ%3D%3D&fcc_id=2ABPY-5B9198
2018-10-03T20:26:26 < karlp> you can get the inside pics there :)
2018-10-03T20:26:52 < karlp> it's also why they talk of it only as a module you talk to, not in anyway something youc ould program yourself.
2018-10-03T20:30:56 < dongs> at least pcb layout looks better than your typical ESP1488 dongle
2018-10-03T20:31:17 < dongs> and they used some sorta bga flash chip?
2018-10-03T20:31:19 < dongs> instead of the SOP8 shit
2018-10-03T20:31:39 < kakimir> I don't understand how my laptop lacked so much bass
2018-10-03T20:31:48 < kakimir> I thought I had lost hearing
2018-10-03T20:32:14 < Steffanx> Cool englishman 
2018-10-03T20:35:36 < englishman> ty
2018-10-03T20:38:03 < englishman> this bath is 4" deep i better not drop anything
2018-10-03T20:38:12 < dongs> crispy
2018-10-03T20:40:03 < englishman> this shit is going to go up on cell towers to blink airplane lights
2018-10-03T20:40:56 < englishman> diptrace: contributing to aviation safety
2018-10-03T20:46:54 < dongs> cool
2018-10-03T20:46:57 < dongs> 3am, bedtime
2018-10-03T20:49:27 < emeb> englishman: won't most stuff float on the solder unless it's denser than whatever alloy you're using?
2018-10-03T20:50:29 < englishman> id prefer not to try. but the boards do seem to float even with rather heavy relays on them
2018-10-03T20:57:06 < Steffanx> Attach a wire, try it?
2018-10-03T20:58:43 < Steffanx> do you place TH components by hand englishman ?
2018-10-03T20:58:51 < englishman> yes
2018-10-03T20:59:15 < englishman> while watching The Verdict (1982) with Paul Newman
2018-10-03T21:00:14 < Steffanx> i always feel sorry for the guy when i see him do the placing by hand
2018-10-03T21:00:18 < Steffanx> should i feel sorry for you?
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2018-10-03T21:19:05 < Steffanx> ok, i dont.
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2018-10-03T21:38:49 < englishman> I don't need your pity
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2018-10-03T21:45:10 < kakimir> I can take that
2018-10-03T21:51:00 < Steffanx> ok englishman, ill give it to kakimir
2018-10-03T21:51:13 < kakimir> thanks
2018-10-03T21:52:23 < kakimir> I have seen my design made by someone else only once
2018-10-03T21:52:56 < englishman> fuck i am almost out of 0.1u 0402
2018-10-03T21:53:28 < Steffanx> no thanks
2018-10-03T21:54:14 < kakimir> englishman: prepaire to be robbed
2018-10-03T21:54:27 < Steffanx> ARROW doesnt rob him
2018-10-03T21:55:45 < kakimir> as long as you don't need 0603 you will be fine
2018-10-03T21:56:02 < englishman> arrow's search sucks dick
2018-10-03T21:56:11 < englishman> i am done with those fools
2018-10-03T21:56:13 < englishman> haven't ordered in months
2018-10-03T21:56:24 < englishman> mouser gets all my biz now
2018-10-03T21:56:30 < kakimir> mouser search is perfect
2018-10-03T21:56:40 < kakimir> slow but perfect
2018-10-03T21:56:55 < englishman> no
2018-10-03T21:56:57 < englishman> it also sucks
2018-10-03T21:57:05 < englishman> there is 0.1u and 100nF in the same list
2018-10-03T21:57:06 < englishman> fuck off
2018-10-03T21:57:07 < Steffanx> slowest ever.
2018-10-03T21:57:19 < Steffanx>  = farnell
2018-10-03T21:57:20 < englishman> cant sort by dielectric
2018-10-03T21:57:23 < kakimir> I kinda get it when you filter sets of 200000 items
2018-10-03T21:57:30 < englishman> oh you can. not in arrow
2018-10-03T21:58:06 < kakimir> englishman: you sound day by day more like dongs
2018-10-03T21:58:19 < englishman> digikey still has by far the best search
2018-10-03T21:58:41 < Steffanx> but
2018-10-03T21:59:18 < Steffanx> y u no use em
2018-10-03T21:59:25 < Steffanx> instead of the mouse
2018-10-03T21:59:52 < kakimir> full of contained rage fury sass energy
2018-10-03T21:59:55 < englishman> i do
2018-10-03T22:00:00 < englishman> ordered like 4 times this week
2018-10-03T22:00:15 < englishman> and its only wednesday
2018-10-03T22:00:15 < englishman> fuck
2018-10-03T22:00:31 < kakimir> I don't like digikey search but I don't do fabbing
2018-10-03T22:02:06 < kakimir> I just look for nice components to use in designs
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2018-10-03T22:09:59 < Hamilton> I have installed and used Ubuntu with Xfce on my other machine and I'm generally happy with it. Should I also try installing Arch also (on VirtualBox under Windows)? What are the downsides? Does bleeding-edge hurt much?
2018-10-03T22:10:21 < Hamilton> What distro would be better for embedded development?
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2018-10-03T22:10:52 < srk> nixos
2018-10-03T22:11:16 < srk> and olibvirt instead of vbox
2018-10-03T22:11:36 < englishman> windows 10 is the best os for embedded development and pretty much anything really
2018-10-03T22:12:00 < srk> s/olibvirt/libvirt
2018-10-03T22:12:03 < englishman> the fact that you have to ask that question with a bunch of made up words that make no sense
2018-10-03T22:12:17 < englishman> just goes to show what a waste of time it will be
2018-10-03T22:12:27 < Hamilton> englishman, made up words?
2018-10-03T22:12:34 < englishman> "arch"
2018-10-03T22:12:36 < englishman> "distro"
2018-10-03T22:12:39 < englishman> "xfce"
2018-10-03T22:12:43 < englishman> shit noone cares about
2018-10-03T22:12:53 < englishman> and has nothing to do with embedded development
2018-10-03T22:14:06 < Steffanx> dongs is that you?
2018-10-03T22:14:41 < Hamilton> englishman, In fact I've always used GUI/Windows mentality but lately I'm forcing myself to use Unix mentality hence my frequent questions about vim/gdb/linux
2018-10-03T22:16:09 -!- barthess [~barthess@nat-16-metro-pool-1-ip-2.cosmostv.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2018-10-03T22:16:25 < Steffanx> Just dont ask englishman or dongs and you'll be ok.
2018-10-03T22:16:35 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPeVsniB7b0 
2018-10-03T22:17:22 < Hamilton> Steffanx, What do you use? :)
2018-10-03T22:17:51 < Hamilton> In fact, I've come to the conclusion that Xfce > Windows Explorer at least
2018-10-03T22:18:06 < Steffanx> Windows mostly, but there is no good reason for that.
2018-10-03T22:19:12 < Hamilton> Hmm...Contrary to the popular interwebz cool kidz, it seems Windows is more popular among [at least] embedded developers...I guess its stability is the main reason
2018-10-03T22:20:31 < Steffanx> i doubt its really more popular.
2018-10-03T22:21:01 < Steffanx> i think most people here use some kind of lunix
2018-10-03T22:21:08 < jpa-> it depends totally on who you ask; most workplaces will use windows, regardless of the kind of work
2018-10-03T22:21:29 < Hamilton> jpa-, Well I guess I'm asking the right community here :D
2018-10-03T22:21:50 < zyp> I've used both linux and windows for work
2018-10-03T22:21:52 < jpa-> on IRC, linux is probably more popular, but most people are so bored of "OS wars" that they wouldn't bother answering a question like that
2018-10-03T22:22:41 < Hamilton> jpa-, If Windows was *so* bad for development as it is believed in interwebz, many wouldn't even consider that
2018-10-03T22:22:47 < Hamilton> But it doesn't seem to be the case
2018-10-03T22:23:04 < jpa-> who is this interwebz you are talking about?
2018-10-03T22:23:23 < Hamilton> everywhere reddit/slashdot/every medium post
2018-10-03T22:23:27 < Hamilton> hackaday
2018-10-03T22:23:39 < englishman> samtec yesterday: delivery in 5 days!!!
2018-10-03T22:23:42 < Steffanx> so how is the iran nowadays mr Hamilton ?
2018-10-03T22:23:47 < englishman> samtec today: delivery 2nd week november
2018-10-03T22:23:48 < englishman> fffffffffffffffffffff
2018-10-03T22:23:50 < Hamilton> Steffanx, very bad
2018-10-03T22:23:52 < srk> Hamilton: vim/gdb/linux/blackmagic/xmonad ftw :)
2018-10-03T22:24:19 < catphish> Hamilton: soon you'll realise that worrying and/or arguing about OS choice is a colossal waste of time and you'll merely use whatever best fits your needs at the time
2018-10-03T22:24:23 < Steffanx> better try: /ignore srk
2018-10-03T22:24:26 < emeb> englishman: Samtec used to have the slogan "Sudden Service"
2018-10-03T22:24:36 < emeb> englishman: now we call it "Sudden Delay"
2018-10-03T22:24:40 < Hamilton> srk, You were the Haskel in embedded guy ? ;)
2018-10-03T22:24:47 < englishman> the difference between yesterday and today? a $30k order i made
2018-10-03T22:24:51 < srk> Hamilton: yeah, also haskell ! :]
2018-10-03T22:24:51 < englishman> fucking scamtec
2018-10-03T22:24:53 < jpa-> developing for linux, use linux; developing for windows, use windows; developing for embedded, it doesn't really matter
2018-10-03T22:24:55 < englishman> lol emeb 
2018-10-03T22:25:10 < englishman> at least they are fast to reply to my hate mail
2018-10-03T22:25:35 < catphish> jpa-: see also: developing for web, doesn't matter
2018-10-03T22:25:54 < Steffanx> Yes it does matter then
2018-10-03T22:25:55 < jpa-> unless the web server has an operating system..
2018-10-03T22:26:00 < Steffanx> because you have to test IE crap :P
2018-10-03T22:26:03 < Steffanx> > windows
2018-10-03T22:26:03 < catphish> haha
2018-10-03T22:26:07 < srk> Hamilton: xmonad is also written in haskell. when you get tired of arranging windows around 
2018-10-03T22:26:24 < Hamilton> jpa-, Well for starters, suppose I want to write a simple C program...Where is Windows's compiler?
2018-10-03T22:26:30 < srk> :D
2018-10-03T22:26:37 < srk> in WSL!
2018-10-03T22:26:44 < englishman> zyp: https://i.redd.it/5752hzxl0zp11.jpg
2018-10-03T22:26:46 < jpa-> Hamilton: if you are writing the program for embedded, you need to download the toolchain anyway
2018-10-03T22:27:15 < qyx> 9/10 todays webdevs develop on apple crap
2018-10-03T22:27:16 < Hamilton> jpa-, Suppose you want to cross-test your code on your host also
2018-10-03T22:27:21 < zyp> englishman, what am I looking at?
2018-10-03T22:27:21 < qyx> here at least
2018-10-03T22:27:33 < englishman> you know those non contact voltage testers?
2018-10-03T22:27:45 < zyp> yeah, have used those
2018-10-03T22:27:48 < jpa-> Hamilton: .. so download a toolchain for host?
2018-10-03T22:27:54 < englishman> he is holding one and the light i son
2018-10-03T22:27:56 < englishman> is on
2018-10-03T22:28:05 < zyp> they're not terribly accurate :)
2018-10-03T22:28:09 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/ZFQCdLv.jpg
2018-10-03T22:28:11 < jpa-> Hamilton: this argument is stupid
2018-10-03T22:28:16 < Hamilton> jpa-, So other that WSL, we are left with 3rd party open-source options like MSYS2, cgywin
2018-10-03T22:29:13 < jpa-> so? all software on any operating system is 3rd party anyway, closed or open source
2018-10-03T22:29:18 < Hamilton> Or should I commit myself to Visual Studio and go with MSVS instead of gcc? I mean development in windows is inherently gui/ide based
2018-10-03T22:29:29 < Steffanx> Hamilton, install bash on ubuntu on windows or something and do: sudo apt-get install gcc :P
2018-10-03T22:29:31 < jpa-> that is just your imagination
2018-10-03T22:29:55 < Steffanx> and sudo apt-get install vim
2018-10-03T22:29:58 < Steffanx> and whatever you want
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2018-10-03T22:30:08 < e3ef13f4ff44> hello
2018-10-03T22:30:09 < jpa-> know every option, pick whatever is best for the current project, don't imagine one option fits everything
2018-10-03T22:30:10 < englishman> welcome e3ef13f4ff44 
2018-10-03T22:30:18 < Steffanx> Hello Welcome!
2018-10-03T22:30:24 < e3ef13f4ff44> why cubemx is overwriting my USB files?
2018-10-03T22:30:37 < jpa-> hello mr. 250615971512132
2018-10-03T22:30:57 < e3ef13f4ff44> i want to modify hid from mouse to kbd and when i regenerate the files it just disappears
2018-10-03T22:31:02 < Hamilton> Steffanx, OK basically you say I should use win 10 and WSL...So using a kinda-linux on windows...What about USB and drivers?
2018-10-03T22:31:05 < e3ef13f4ff44> is there any proper way to do it?
2018-10-03T22:31:11 < Steffanx> idk Hamilton
2018-10-03T22:31:19 < Hamilton> jpa-, :( I want to use just one thing that works for all
2018-10-03T22:31:46 < jpa-> Hamilton: no such thing, atleast if the project involves more than yourself
2018-10-03T22:32:30 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/GimXJ07.gifv
2018-10-03T22:32:36 < jpa-> you can of course select to only do the projects that fit the tool you've chosen, like if you decide to be a hammerman, better not do screw projects
2018-10-03T22:33:35 < jpa-> and i'd be quite surprised if Steffanx actually recommended anything for you without even knowing what you are doing - to me it seems he is just showing you that there exist options on windows also
2018-10-03T22:34:00 < Steffanx> what jpa-  said
2018-10-03T22:35:03 < Hamilton> okay thanks
2018-10-03T22:36:18 < Hamilton> But when I see instruction on for example setting up dev. env. for ESP32 and it says instructions only for linux (and a watered down for msys2) or when I see some softwares are linux only like ROS, I wonder these questions I asked
2018-10-03T22:37:35 < jpa-> obviously for projects using those frameworks, linux would probably be a better fit
2018-10-03T22:38:15 < jpa-> and then when you get a project that involves IAR compiler, either you pick windows or you run away flailing your hands
2018-10-03T22:38:31 < Steffanx> IAR, why you have to name that one?
2018-10-03T22:38:36 < Steffanx> IAR of all
2018-10-03T22:39:19 < jpa-> because it is the only one that is nonstandard enough that porting away from it is a pain :P
2018-10-03T22:40:28 < jpa-> e.g. keil runs on linux also
2018-10-03T22:40:37 < Hamilton> For example, I didn't even know of things like git, build systems, that autoconf thing, that INSTALL, README, NEWS files in project directories in all my years working with Windows...University C course was horrible ...teaching Visual Studio and relying on it...I kinda blame the GUI/IDE approach for this....
2018-10-03T22:41:04 < Hamilton> And besides, UNIX philosophy somehow enforces people to become better programmer imo
2018-10-03T22:41:39 < jpa-> learning new ways makes you a better programmer
2018-10-03T22:42:02 < jpa-> i used to have a very linux-only background until my first real job, and learning about windows side of things made me a better programmer
2018-10-03T22:44:25 < qyx> I used windows and linux and I am still not a good programmer
2018-10-03T22:44:39 < jpa-> time to use templeos
2018-10-03T22:45:00 < Hamilton> jpa-, Yes. I'm actually n00b but when I was using serial port data, I'm constantly running up some GUI program like RealTerm...Copying and sifting through them still needs a GUI editor...I mean everything needs GUI softwares...
2018-10-03T22:45:07 < Hamilton> Recently I've come to know https://tio.github.io/
2018-10-03T22:45:27 < Hamilton> The concept of terminal, STDOUT, piping, grep...it's just another mentality
2018-10-03T22:45:45 < Hamilton> And an efficient one imo (though I've not come knee-deep into this)
2018-10-03T22:46:28 < kakimir> any way to move cpu priority away from winupdate?
2018-10-03T22:46:36 < kakimir> my system is unresponsive
2018-10-03T22:46:38 < kakimir> irc works
2018-10-03T22:46:39 < Steffanx> kill the update
2018-10-03T22:46:59 < kakimir> hmm
2018-10-03T22:47:02 < emeb> lol winupdate
2018-10-03T22:47:10 < zyp> I stopped by the house again today, my office wall is paneled now: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/VohnN.jpg
2018-10-03T22:47:36 < jpa-> one unfortunate part of unix philosophy is that it is very programmer-oriented, so if you absorb it too deeply you'll find it hard to make software usable for mere mortals (and that's often the only kind of software that pays the bills)
2018-10-03T22:47:39 < emeb> I kicked it off yesterday evening ~7pm. By 11:30pm it still hadn't finished preparing.
2018-10-03T22:48:00 < emeb> this morning it was ready to reboot & install, but that process also too several hours.
2018-10-03T22:48:07 < emeb> took
2018-10-03T22:48:07 < jpa-> zyp: did you steal benjamin's ladder?
2018-10-03T22:48:24 < zyp> no, I assume he put it there himself
2018-10-03T22:49:10 < emeb> zyp: what's the material that is used for paneling the wall?
2018-10-03T22:49:47 < zyp> I think it's MDF
2018-10-03T22:49:50 < e3ef13f4ff44> could you help me with cubemx overwriting files?
2018-10-03T22:49:54  * emeb *nods*
2018-10-03T22:50:23 < emeb> most interior walls in the US are done w/ gypsum drywall
2018-10-03T22:50:39 < emeb> rarely see any kind of wood/fiber paneling these days.
2018-10-03T22:51:00 < Rickta59> mdf isn't that a health hazard?
2018-10-03T22:51:05 < Ultrasauce> cause it went out of style 25 years ago due to being ugly as fuck
2018-10-03T22:51:07 < e3ef13f4ff44> mdf is just a wood
2018-10-03T22:51:22 < e3ef13f4ff44> asbesto is dangerous
2018-10-03T22:51:23 < Rickta59> i thought it was hardwood dust + chemical bonding
2018-10-03T22:51:40 < e3ef13f4ff44> so throw out all of your furniture :D
2018-10-03T22:51:48 < Rickta59> i don't have any mdf 
2018-10-03T22:51:48 < zyp> emeb, yeah, drywall is common here also nowadays, idk why they're not using it but I'm not complaining
2018-10-03T22:52:10 < zyp> apartment I live in now is all drywall except one room that has MDF panels on top of the drywall
2018-10-03T22:52:17 < zyp> annoying to hang things on the walls
2018-10-03T22:53:02 < emeb> strange that they'd layer it like that.
2018-10-03T22:53:12 < kakimir> hmm
2018-10-03T22:53:27 < kakimir> windows 10 doesn't let you change priorities
2018-10-03T22:53:41 < emeb> windows knows best
2018-10-03T22:53:50 < emeb> stop thinking you're smarter than the OS.
2018-10-03T22:54:34 < Steffanx> reboot, kill it whatever kakimir
2018-10-03T22:54:41 < Steffanx> the process isnt supposed to kill your pc
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2018-10-03T22:54:56 < Steffanx> if it does, you certainly need a faster pc
2018-10-03T22:55:00 < Steffanx> or fix your windows
2018-10-03T22:57:33 < kakimir> I found the priority
2018-10-03T22:57:39 < kakimir> it was in details tab
2018-10-03T22:59:06 < Hamilton> https://www.reddit.com/r/embedded/comments/94nt94/solutions_ide_or_build_envs_for_cross_platform/
2018-10-03T22:59:28 < zyp> emeb, wouldn't be surprised if the MDF layer was added later as an afterthought
2018-10-03T23:00:01 < zyp> or, idk, window/door trim accounts for the thickness
2018-10-03T23:01:40 < kakimir> does it really matter how much computing power you have Steffanx 
2018-10-03T23:01:54 < kakimir> those processes drain the resources anyway
2018-10-03T23:02:03 < kakimir> it's full steam
2018-10-03T23:02:10 < aandrew> < e3ef13f4ff44> mdf is just a wood
2018-10-03T23:02:15 < emeb> zyp: makes sense.
2018-10-03T23:02:17 < aandrew> mdf is wood fiber and a shitload of glue/binding agents
2018-10-03T23:02:26 < aandrew> it's basically waste material turned into a product
2018-10-03T23:02:29 < e3ef13f4ff44> yup
2018-10-03T23:02:42 < e3ef13f4ff44> waste, but more expensive than normal wood
2018-10-03T23:02:46 < aandrew> yep
2018-10-03T23:03:15 < emeb> "Hey - we can sell our garbage at a big markup!"
2018-10-03T23:03:38 < sync> the only thing worse than MDF is fire retarded mdf
2018-10-03T23:04:05 < emeb> don't have much love for OSB either.
2018-10-03T23:04:31 < kakimir> I think changing the priority did it
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2018-10-03T23:07:54 < zyp> emeb, why not?
2018-10-03T23:08:14 < zyp> I've been thinking about paneling the outdoor shed with OSB later
2018-10-03T23:12:55 < qyx> we used osb tooo
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2018-10-03T23:16:02 < emeb> zyp: OSB is just butt-ugly.
2018-10-03T23:16:18 < emeb> might be great from a structural / cost standpoint.
2018-10-03T23:16:42 < emeb> but I see a lot of low-end applications where it's left unfinished and :P
2018-10-03T23:17:05 < zyp> well, yeah, I were thinking about leaving it untreated
2018-10-03T23:17:32 < qyx> in the exterior?
2018-10-03T23:17:32 < zyp> sure, the surface is rough, but I think that's a good fit for a shed
2018-10-03T23:17:43 < zyp> qyx, no, for covering the inside
2018-10-03T23:18:47 < qyx> mhm I would paint it gray
2018-10-03T23:19:16 < qyx> also the screws/nails don't look good
2018-10-03T23:19:20 < emeb> zyp: I actually did see an interesting treatment of OSB - artsy-minded person painted each of the "chunks" a different primary color. :P
2018-10-03T23:19:26 < zyp> haha
2018-10-03T23:19:30 < qyx> lol
2018-10-03T23:19:59 < zyp> idk, doing something about the shed is not top priority :p
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2018-10-03T23:20:20 < emeb> Yeah, it's probably great for such an interior.
2018-10-03T23:20:25 < emeb> tough, cheap.
2018-10-03T23:20:42 < emeb> you can mount stuff on it and it won't tear apart easily.
2018-10-03T23:20:51 < zyp> that's what I'm thinking too
2018-10-03T23:21:28 < zyp> and I don't need to worry too much about leaving marks on it either, because they won't stick out as they would on a smooth white surface
2018-10-03T23:21:59 < emeb> heh
2018-10-03T23:22:04 < emeb> can't look worse!
2018-10-03T23:22:13 < zyp> e.g. when I'm stacking the car tires and they rub against the wall :p
2018-10-03T23:23:02  * emeb is glad to live in a place where changing tires for the season is not needed.
2018-10-03T23:23:33 < emeb> OTOH, I see a lot of "gators" on the road when the weather heats up in the spring, so maybe "summer tires" might be good here.
2018-10-03T23:23:55 < zyp> you have this fun concept of «rotating» tires though :)
2018-10-03T23:24:06 < zyp> cue «don't they rotate when you drive?»
2018-10-03T23:24:46 < qyx> rotating?
2018-10-03T23:25:19 < Ultrasauce> no no that's the wrong axis
2018-10-03T23:25:23 < Ultrasauce> they rotate when you steer
2018-10-03T23:25:29 < zyp> qyx, swapping positions
2018-10-03T23:25:37 < zyp> to wear them evenly
2018-10-03T23:25:52 < qyx> it is ~forbidden here
2018-10-03T23:25:58 < zyp> wat?
2018-10-03T23:26:06 < qyx> you can swap front/rear, but not left/right
2018-10-03T23:26:08 < qyx> for some reason
2018-10-03T23:26:12 < zyp> yeah, of course
2018-10-03T23:26:16 < qyx> ah, then its ok
2018-10-03T23:26:51 < zyp> a fwd car would wear the front tires a lot more than the rear tires
2018-10-03T23:26:52 < emeb> zyp: I get tires rotated when I get the oil changed.
2018-10-03T23:27:04 < zyp> I don't have oil to change :)
2018-10-03T23:27:10 < zyp> but yeah
2018-10-03T23:27:12 < qyx> lol
2018-10-03T23:27:22 < zyp> I rotate the tires when I change between summer/winter
2018-10-03T23:27:31 < emeb> hmm... what sort of periodic maintenance do e-cars need? 
2018-10-03T23:27:34 < zyp> i.e. I always put the best pair in the front
2018-10-03T23:27:38 < Ultrasauce> the electrons get stale
2018-10-03T23:27:45 < zyp> emeb, changing the pollen filter
2018-10-03T23:28:01 < emeb> transmission fluid? swap in new battery pack every 10k ?
2018-10-03T23:28:21 < zyp> don't think there's any transmission fluid either
2018-10-03T23:28:33 < emeb> wow - no gearbox at all?
2018-10-03T23:28:40 < zyp> I mean, the only transmission I have is the reduction gear in the differential
2018-10-03T23:28:40 < emeb> that's a nice feature
2018-10-03T23:28:59 < sync> I guess that runs in oil
2018-10-03T23:29:07 < zyp> electric motors have a pretty wide power band, doesn't need more than one gear
2018-10-03T23:29:07 < emeb> well, electric motors do have a broader power curve I guess.
2018-10-03T23:29:39 < zyp> sync, probably, but I don't think that's something that needs to be changed regularly
2018-10-03T23:29:41 < emeb> Saw some stuff in IEEE Spectrum about a company doing motors that mount right on the wheels.
2018-10-03T23:30:00 < zyp> yeah, plenty of ebikes have motors like that
2018-10-03T23:30:12 < sync> well, it actually needs to be but it will still last the lifetime
2018-10-03T23:30:16 < sync> emeb: that sucks tho
2018-10-03T23:30:17 < emeb> and they needed a fluid cooling system with central pump & heat exchanger.
2018-10-03T23:30:59 < zyp> that sounds fun to keep sealed
2018-10-03T23:31:05 < emeb> yeah.
2018-10-03T23:31:16 < emeb> the motors have the ESC built in
2018-10-03T23:31:33 < emeb> so you send them control bus, power and cooling.
2018-10-03T23:31:47 < sync> the problem with that is the unsprung mass is insane
2018-10-03T23:31:59 < emeb> sync:  the article discussed that.
2018-10-03T23:32:08 < emeb> they claim to have a solution.
2018-10-03T23:33:49 < sync> there is no solution to weight
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2018-10-03T23:44:24 < Steffanx> Welkom steven.
2018-10-03T23:44:41 < emeb> sync: the article -> https://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/protean-electrics-inwheel-motors-could-make-evs-more-efficient
2018-10-03T23:47:34 < sync> lul inside brake disc
2018-10-03T23:47:39 < sync> ask audi how that worked out
2018-10-03T23:50:27 < sync> and that disc is not even ventilated
2018-10-03T23:54:24 < Steffanx> Aldi.
2018-10-03T23:57:32 < sync> emeb: yeah well
2018-10-03T23:57:43 < sync> it is kind old news tho
2018-10-03T23:57:50 < sync> people tried this before
2018-10-03T23:57:56 < emeb> yes
2018-10-03T23:58:18 < emeb> they mention that some of the first e-vehicles back in the late 19th cen did this.
2018-10-03T23:58:30 < karlp> how long has keil being running on linux? jpa- ?
2018-10-03T23:59:46 < Steffanx> Since when keil is relevant?
--- Day changed Thu Oct 04 2018
2018-10-04T00:04:30 < karlp> why are you not allowed to swap left/right tires?
2018-10-04T00:05:51 < zyp> some tires have asymmetric patterns
2018-10-04T00:06:20 < zyp> but if the tires don't have a marked rolling direction it doesn't hurt to swap them
2018-10-04T00:07:13 < h4x0riz3d> Tip: wear them out untill the markings are no longer distinguishable, then swap em however ya want
2018-10-04T00:07:50 < Steffanx> Slicks. :)
2018-10-04T00:08:12 < karlp> sure, fi they're assymetric, but not all of them are.
2018-10-04T00:08:39 < karlp> but yeah, tire shop handles that, this year we even paid a little bit to leave the fucking things in their shed instead of finding space in ours
2018-10-04T00:09:20 < zyp> karlp, that's common here too
2018-10-04T00:09:29 < h4x0riz3d> Paralolazite
2018-10-04T00:10:19 < zyp> I don't bother with that though, decent jack and an impact wrench and I get them all changed in less than half an hour or so
2018-10-04T00:11:02 < karlp> yeah, I don't have a garage, I don't see why I shoudl buy a more serious jack, and I'd only need an impact wrench for changing tires.
2018-10-04T00:11:04 < karlp> so.... 
2018-10-04T00:11:17 < Steffanx> Yeah, and you can swap them whenever you want.
2018-10-04T00:11:26 < karlp> yeah, cos winter happens twice a year?
2018-10-04T00:11:28 < zyp> I don't have a garage either, doing it outside is fine
2018-10-04T00:11:42 < zyp> and I bet taking the car to a shop would take me more time than just doing it myself
2018-10-04T00:11:55 < karlp> because  you have all the tools for it.
2018-10-04T00:12:01 < karlp> I don't even have a driveway, I just have the street
2018-10-04T00:12:20 < karlp> I've changed discs and pads out in the street, and yeah, you can, but it's fucking tedious
2018-10-04T00:12:23 < sync> doing car repairs in the universities parking lot is fun
2018-10-04T00:12:38 < zyp> sync, been there done that
2018-10-04T00:12:50 < karlp> anyway, I'm crispy. I think a beer and video games is the only solution right now.
2018-10-04T00:13:04 < Steffanx> Taking my car to a shop is just more annoying, especially since many people decide to so it around the same time
2018-10-04T00:13:08 < zyp> but yeah, price is an argument
2018-10-04T00:13:17 < karlp> three days of postgres and mqtt shit has me a bit worn down.
2018-10-04T00:13:22 < zyp> I bought a DTW285Z this spring
2018-10-04T00:13:50 < zyp> that'd probably buy me some years of changes at a shop
2018-10-04T00:14:09 < sync> it is always fun how people look at you if you are laying under a car yelling at things you cannot see
2018-10-04T00:14:23 < zyp> but fuck it was worth it
2018-10-04T00:14:24 < sync> and cuss out an inanimate object
2018-10-04T00:15:06 < Steffanx> Lol.
2018-10-04T00:18:01 < zyp> speaking of that, I helped a pal convert his bike to an ebike the other day
2018-10-04T00:18:35 < Steffanx> Front wheel i assume?
2018-10-04T00:18:38 < zyp> when I converted my bike a couple of years ago, I didn't manage to get out the bottom bracket by myself, the cup were just slipping out
2018-10-04T00:18:41 < zyp> no, BBS01
2018-10-04T00:19:06 < zyp> so I ended up taking my bike to a bike shop to get the original bottom bracket removed
2018-10-04T00:19:08 < Steffanx> Ah cool
2018-10-04T00:19:11 < zyp> one of my other pals did the same
2018-10-04T00:20:19 < zyp> so we expected we'd have the same problem this time
2018-10-04T00:20:38 < zyp> but then I just put the cup on the impact wrench and that got it out in two seconds
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2018-10-04T00:30:28 < Steffanx> Brute force is best
2018-10-04T00:30:47 < Steffanx> Not sure if id use it on my car though
2018-10-04T00:32:52 < mawk> "The IEEE 802.15.4-2003 standard has been superceded by the publication of IEEE 802.15.4-2006. The new standard can be purchased from the IEEE store."
2018-10-04T00:32:56 < mawk> purchased ???
2018-10-04T00:33:05 < mawk> I thought this kind of practice was dead since a long time
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2018-10-04T00:33:38 < mawk> at least since VESA killed the great VBE standard by selling the standard instead of giving it for free
2018-10-04T00:33:49 < emeb> IEEE charges for *everything*
2018-10-04T00:34:08 < emeb> I'm a member and I don't get access to journals w/o $$$
2018-10-04T00:36:32 < mawk> $258
2018-10-04T00:36:40 < mawk> I'd pay a few dozen dollars, but not 300
2018-10-04T00:36:46 < mawk> wtf
2018-10-04T00:37:32 < mawk> maybe sci-hub has it
2018-10-04T00:43:30 < sync> Steffanx: why not
2018-10-04T00:45:57 < Steffanx> Lol stvn. Lies.
2018-10-04T00:46:19 < Steffanx> Idk, me being to afraid for bolts to break i guess sync
2018-10-04T00:46:44 < sync> nah
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2018-10-04T00:50:25 < Steffanx> But then you remember you wear good absorbing diapers crt?
2018-10-04T00:50:35 < Steffanx> *remembered
2018-10-04T00:51:18 < karlp> mawk: one tick...
2018-10-04T00:52:18 < karlp> https://ufile.io/ttwrm
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2018-10-04T01:27:16 < mawk> they weren't joking when they said "slow download"
2018-10-04T01:27:37 < mawk> I've got a 1 Gbps fiber, and I'm downloading at 340 kbps
2018-10-04T01:28:11 < mawk> thanks karlp 
2018-10-04T01:31:06 < bitmask> haha wow, this is a first... https://i.imgur.com/0xTxoJT.png
2018-10-04T01:31:12 < bitmask> forgot to put the top right plate back on and I'm in the middle of a print
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2018-10-04T03:01:46 < karlp> mawk: never used that service before actually
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2018-10-04T03:50:30 < englishman> emeb_mac: because there is no combustion, EVs need a lot less maintenance
2018-10-04T03:50:44 < englishman> no pulleys, oil changes, transmission at all, exhaust at all
2018-10-04T03:51:11 < englishman> even the brakes are used much less than on a gas automatic car
2018-10-04T03:51:48 < englishman> the rest is the same as pretty much any other modern car, tires and suspension may take more wear due to the weight
2018-10-04T03:52:40 < emeb_mac> englishman: all makes sense
2018-10-04T03:53:03 < emeb_mac> I guess I was a bit surprised that the drive train doesn't have much lube req'd
2018-10-04T03:53:45 < englishman> there is still motor oil, but it does not need to be changed for the life of the car as there is nothing to contaminate it
2018-10-04T03:54:29 < dongs>  < Hamilton> englishman, In fact I've always used GUI/Windows mentality but lately I'm forcing myself to use Unix mentality
2018-10-04T03:54:35 < dongs> lunix mentality = waste time all day long?
2018-10-04T03:54:46 < englishman> sure, they were chatting about lunix all day long
2018-10-04T03:54:53 < englishman> meanwhile i assy'd 2 projects
2018-10-04T03:54:57 < englishman> and altiudumb'd another
2018-10-04T03:55:06 < dongs> haha
2018-10-04T04:02:43 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-04T04:03:05 < veegee> Hey guys, I have a few Nucleo boards, but the mass storage interface is annoying every time I plug it in
2018-10-04T04:03:21 < dongs> convert their ST-Dicks to JLINK
2018-10-04T04:03:22 < veegee> Is there any way I can reflash the onboard st-link thing to disable its mass storage feature? 
2018-10-04T04:03:27 < veegee> LOL!
2018-10-04T04:03:40 < englishman> i agree with the above statement
2018-10-04T04:03:54 < veegee> someone else recommended that too, can you give me a quick summary as to why it's better?
2018-10-04T04:03:55 < dongs> https://www.segger.com/products/debug-probes/j-link/models/other-j-links/st-link-on-board/
2018-10-04T04:04:04 < veegee> but ok I'm on it
2018-10-04T04:04:12 < dongs> because jlink is a professional debugger, while stlink is shit ST gives away
2018-10-04T04:04:24 < veegee> I don't have the jlink hardware though
2018-10-04T04:04:28 < dongs> its like.. jlink is windows 10
2018-10-04T04:04:30 < dongs> and stlink is lunix
2018-10-04T04:04:35 < dongs> kinda like that.
2018-10-04T04:04:39 < veegee> ok come on that's totally not fair
2018-10-04T04:04:48 < veegee> the Linux kernel is far superior to windows
2018-10-04T04:04:56 < dongs> you don't need to have jlink hardware, the point is, that it turns stlink into jlink by update its firmware
2018-10-04T04:05:05 < aandrew> heh
2018-10-04T04:05:05 < veegee> ok I'll do that
2018-10-04T04:05:08  * aandrew grabs some popcorn
2018-10-04T04:05:13 < dongs> normal users don't care about "kernels"
2018-10-04T04:05:18 < dongs> they carea bout turning on computer and getting work done
2018-10-04T04:05:20 < veegee> right now I'm using st-flash on mac os/linux 
2018-10-04T04:05:29 < veegee> is there a command line tool to do the same thing for the jlink firmware? 
2018-10-04T04:05:47 < dongs> probably some variation of openocd. PaulFertser can help you wiht that
2018-10-04T04:05:54 < dongs> if youre using lunix why do you even carea bout stlink mass storage
2018-10-04T04:05:58 < dongs> does lunix suppport USB drives now?
2018-10-04T04:06:36 < veegee> ok I appreciate the advice about jlink but I'll have to ignore the Linux commentary 
2018-10-04T04:06:37 < dongs> i mean im sure with all your lunix skills you can vi some /etc/fuckoff.xml file and blacklist the mass storage interface from showing up
2018-10-04T04:06:50 < veegee> the problem is annoying on mac os
2018-10-04T04:07:05 < aandrew> actaully mojave just made a nice improvement for me
2018-10-04T04:07:08 < dongs> any modern mac can boot from win10 usb stick
2018-10-04T04:07:09 < dongs> and install it
2018-10-04T04:07:20 < dongs> and wipe the apple trash
2018-10-04T04:07:44 < dongs> its still shit hardware with shit touchpad etc but at least the software isnt complete shit
2018-10-04T04:07:44 < aandrew> old way was /dev/usbmodem[numeric_map_of_path_to_device] which was shitty
2018-10-04T04:07:55 < aandrew> new way is /dev/usbmodem_serial_of_jlink which is awesome
2018-10-04T04:07:58 < veegee> it would be fine to install windows but I get blue screens before it even finishes installing the drivers
2018-10-04T04:07:58 < veegee> when they fix that, I might take it seriously 
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2018-10-04T04:08:13 < dongs> stop buying shit 3rd world hardware
2018-10-04T04:08:19 < aandrew> huh?
2018-10-04T04:08:21 < veegee> I have a threadripper
2018-10-04T04:08:23 < dongs> i've never had windows crash on normal hardware
2018-10-04T04:08:33 < dongs> oh, well . there's your problem
2018-10-04T04:08:44 < dongs> man this guy is checking EVERY SINGLE BOX
2018-10-04T04:08:45 < veegee> what would you recommend?
2018-10-04T04:08:52 < dongs> [x] broke bitch
2018-10-04T04:08:54 < dongs> [x] lunix user
2018-10-04T04:08:57 < dongs> [x] uses macos
2018-10-04T04:08:59 < dongs> [x] uses amd
2018-10-04T04:09:09 < dongs> [x] hates windows
2018-10-04T04:09:27 < veegee> did intel fix the vulnerabilities in their hardware yet? 
2018-10-04T04:09:38 < dongs> threadnigger was so buggy AMD had to release gcc patches in order to work around hardware bugs
2018-10-04T04:09:56 < dongs> what vulenrabilities?
2018-10-04T04:09:58 < veegee> dude, not cool
2018-10-04T04:09:58 < veegee> I'm black 
2018-10-04T04:10:05 < dongs> the oens that have zero effect on single user systems?
2018-10-04T04:11:14 < dongs> I have all the fuckclown/sceptre shit disabled because I run windows on a single-user machine
2018-10-04T04:12:16 < dongs> mmm nice, segger is actually updating the stlink reflash
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2018-10-04T04:23:33 < englishman> [x] canuck
2018-10-04T04:26:12 < englishman> upgrade to segger and get 5 free months of AOL
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2018-10-04T04:28:21 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/m17hrQJM
2018-10-04T04:36:35 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/9RrJsfSs
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2018-10-04T04:38:02 < dongs> Laurenceb124: is 1st link a leloo "programmer"?
2018-10-04T04:38:16 < Laurenceb124> yes
2018-10-04T04:41:39 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/gLKXDVsp
2018-10-04T04:49:34 < englishman> laurent do you have any intel edisons
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2018-10-04T05:28:19 < Laurenceb124> englishman: no sorry
2018-10-04T05:28:28 < Laurenceb124> I have a Rpi
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2018-10-04T06:09:06 < dongs> i thought you were more of a beangboner guy
2018-10-04T06:36:41 < Ultrasauce> tfw no jetson xavier
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2018-10-04T08:05:26 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/OCXrVnb.jpg
2018-10-04T08:08:56 < Ultrasauce> weed
2018-10-04T08:09:37 < Ultrasauce> also wtf camera do you have that does 2:1
2018-10-04T08:12:41 < englishman> mi a2
2018-10-04T08:21:43 < englishman> should i get a sonerai 2L
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2018-10-04T08:51:47 < Steffanx> Yes
2018-10-04T09:01:59 < kakimir> oh my god
2018-10-04T09:03:08 < kakimir> they have made skype worse
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2018-10-04T09:03:43 < kakimir> now it's not only dumb, but also slow
2018-10-04T09:04:06 < _abc_> Hello again. Unignored all previously ignored persons fyi. New start.
2018-10-04T09:04:54 < kakimir> your week in ##stm32? everybody got ignored?
2018-10-04T09:05:09 < kakimir> it's not uncommon
2018-10-04T09:05:35 < _abc_> Is the wiring on the built-in serial port on small stm32f103 modules in arduino nano form factor usually suitable for serial booting via the usb to serial on board converter? Without a boot loader? Still reading up on this.
2018-10-04T09:05:37 < englishman> kakimir
2018-10-04T09:05:39 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/TL27hrX.jpg
2018-10-04T09:05:43 < englishman> do you like this kimi haiku
2018-10-04T09:06:29 < _abc_> englishman: reminds me of a Toronto comment by a local from there. We have 2 seasons: Winter and Construction. Bad road potholes reference.
2018-10-04T09:06:53 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-04T09:07:00 < kakimir> very kimi
2018-10-04T09:07:09 < englishman> all stm32 have a bootloader in rom, and they are usually supported on 1 or 2 uars
2018-10-04T09:07:11 < englishman> uarts
2018-10-04T09:09:06 < _abc_> I know, the question is, whether the dirt cheap f103 boards have it wired so it is directly usable as such instead of burning a boot loader into them with a stlink first.
2018-10-04T09:15:51 < _abc_> Specifically the blue pill boards all seem to have the needed jumper (BOOT0) for rom uart flashing.
2018-10-04T09:15:54 < _abc_> True?
2018-10-04T09:17:56 < dongs> waht
2018-10-04T09:18:02 < dongs> all STM32 has uart bootlaoder
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2018-10-04T09:19:52 < _abc_> Why is this so hard? I asked if the default wiring of blue pill and similar modules allows using the uart rom boot from factory, or if mods are required. 
2018-10-04T09:20:04 < dongs> who teh fuck knows
2018-10-04T09:20:09 < _abc_> The answer is they allow it barring faulty ones which need some resistors swapped.
2018-10-04T09:20:10 < dongs> go look at some wiki that has board pics
2018-10-04T09:20:14 < _abc_> Bad morning dongs?
2018-10-04T09:20:33 < dongs> if you asked about -discovery or -nucleo board you could get a reliable asnwer
2018-10-04T09:20:40 < dongs> youre asking about some clone of china clone
2018-10-04T09:20:43 < dongs> that has no official docs
2018-10-04T09:20:47 < dongs> and no guarantees of waht you get
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2018-10-04T09:24:07 < _abc_> rom flashing is called "usart isp" in stm32 lingo?
2018-10-04T09:25:35 < dongs> Google An2606
2018-10-04T09:25:40 < englishman> you can't flash the rom
2018-10-04T09:27:45 < _abc_> I meant flashing using the fixed rom boot routine.
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2018-10-04T09:34:05 < _abc_> Like to sleep longer in the morning? I can understand.
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2018-10-04T09:45:31 < englishman> https://www.allchips.ai/blog/2018-top-50-electronic-components-distributors
2018-10-04T09:45:33 < englishman> holy FUCK
2018-10-04T09:45:39 < englishman> arrow is 11x bigger than digikey
2018-10-04T09:46:22 < englishman> and future is bigger than arrow?
2018-10-04T09:46:22 < englishman> how
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2018-10-04T09:51:09 < cjbaird> No Electus? I'd think they'd be over at least $13M..
2018-10-04T10:10:48 < _abc_> You can also check out farnell/newark/element14
2018-10-04T10:10:55 < _abc_> for size
2018-10-04T10:12:01 < _abc_> https://epsnews.com/2016/06/16/newark-electronics-a-retrospective/
2018-10-04T10:13:24 < _abc_> $13M is peanuts in this industry cjbaird 
2018-10-04T10:19:28 < cjbaird> $13M got soeone onto the bottom of that list, though.
2018-10-04T10:24:02 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
2018-10-04T10:28:20 < _abc_> cjbaird: an upper scale audiophool shop is easily worth that much, on any main street in any developed country.
2018-10-04T10:28:28 < _abc_> Not to mention a hardware store.
2018-10-04T10:29:22 < cjbaird> Certainly. I was thinking Electus/Jaycar, our national electronics chain, would be in the ~$150M arena at least.
2018-10-04T10:30:22 < Steffanx> Ya
2018-10-04T10:30:42 < cjbaird> Back into the pit, Altronics scum.
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2018-10-04T10:55:59 < Thorn> soyuz undocking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwMDvPCGeE0
2018-10-04T11:01:09 < dongs> when does undocking happen
2018-10-04T11:01:11 < dongs> or did it already
2018-10-04T11:01:38 < dongs> ah leaving now
2018-10-04T11:04:10 < dongs> who the fuck is taht female? she sounds confused as fuck
2018-10-04T11:04:21 < dongs> is that one of the spacedudes
2018-10-04T11:14:29 < Thorn> an interpreter for nasa controllers afaik
2018-10-04T11:32:00 < Thorn> reentry & landing soon
2018-10-04T11:32:21 < dongs> oh they';re gonna land it?
2018-10-04T11:34:52 < zyp> are there people in it? if so, it's kinda obvious they're gonna land it :p
2018-10-04T12:00:59 < kakimir> they love heros
2018-10-04T12:01:04 < kakimir> yankees
2018-10-04T12:02:01 < kakimir> I don't think they will take you to space crt
2018-10-04T12:07:23 < kakimir> hmm
2018-10-04T12:07:39 < kakimir> that is completelly different thing then
2018-10-04T12:07:58 < kakimir> you are first on the list
2018-10-04T12:11:37 < kakimir> on moon reality tv show
2018-10-04T12:19:39 < cjbaird> crt: Wear bunny ears and do a bum dance.
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2018-10-04T13:32:08 < karlp> that distro list doesn't have wurth or codico on it either, don't know where they're getting their numbers from
2018-10-04T13:35:31 < kakimir> maybe I use my C code to precalculate tables
2018-10-04T13:35:59 < kakimir> then I copy them to static const tables
2018-10-04T13:36:04 < kakimir> and flip the switch
2018-10-04T13:36:41 < cjbaird> \o/ .. a online mate of mine finished! https://www.thesuntrip.com/michael-polak-at-the-arrival/  (..like in 2015 he was the last to complete..)
2018-10-04T13:37:17 < cjbaird> Leaves out that he was mugged and bashed by some Russians..
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2018-10-04T13:37:25 < kakimir> shiet boi Haohmaru 
2018-10-04T13:37:47 < kakimir> I think I will compile my project as C++ project
2018-10-04T13:37:57 < kakimir> is there constexpr in C?
2018-10-04T13:39:12 < kakimir> do I need to take into account anything if I build my C project as C++ project?
2018-10-04T13:39:34 < kakimir> shouldn't C compile as C++ any time?
2018-10-04T13:40:31 < kakimir> it's literally 10years since I used C++ last time
2018-10-04T13:42:18 < kakimir> first yes
2018-10-04T13:42:27 < kakimir> then it's ported
2018-10-04T13:42:33 < kakimir> to some tiny shiettes
2018-10-04T13:42:39 < cjbaird> C Programming Lecturer when I did it as a subject at Uni (..25 years ago): "I don't want to see any Cplusplus shit in the assignments. You won't impress anyone."
2018-10-04T13:43:43 < cjbaird> Although it had only just been introduced, and he was really warning students to leave it alone because the language was still in flux.
2018-10-04T13:44:07 < kakimir> I assume C++ is fine for avrs and pics too
2018-10-04T13:44:46 < kakimir> hmm
2018-10-04T13:44:51 < cjbaird> GCC is totally c++ underneath now anyway
2018-10-04T13:45:08 < kakimir> is there even gcc for pic?
2018-10-04T13:45:16 < cjbaird> pics are still GCC3, being the reason
2018-10-04T13:45:46 < kakimir> I looked at pic architecture one day
2018-10-04T13:45:52 < kakimir> I don't understand shiet
2018-10-04T13:46:30 < kakimir> ye
2018-10-04T13:47:28 < karlp> I' more curious what "Let us remind you that Michael made bold route choices in the European mountains and the Chinese highlands," means 
2018-10-04T13:48:35 < kakimir> Haohmaru: how would you like 24bytes or ram?
2018-10-04T13:48:41 < kakimir> of*
2018-10-04T13:49:11 < cjbaird> karlp: He wanted to see the Cosmodromes, and did a bit of off-roading
2018-10-04T13:49:14 < kakimir> some cases it's fine
2018-10-04T13:49:33 < kakimir> but I have seen how those chips are pushed to their limits
2018-10-04T13:49:37 < cjbaird> His bike is 99% ducttape now
2018-10-04T13:49:44 < kakimir> mad asm code
2018-10-04T13:49:57 < kakimir> just few bytes short of full 1K size
2018-10-04T13:50:54 < kakimir> you bitbang external ram?
2018-10-04T13:51:01 < cjbaird> karlp: the article points out the "100% Solar"-- the guys who ride to /win/ were doing more the Tour De Wanker and their cycling was mostly leg-power.
2018-10-04T13:51:33 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-04T13:51:52 < kakimir> I'm planning to replace the madness in those projects with sanity
2018-10-04T13:51:59 < karlp> well, the winners are all listed as 100% solar too.
2018-10-04T13:52:07 < karlp> so obviouslyt there's a lot of words to be said there.
2018-10-04T13:52:35 < karlp> also, the difference in a corporate team doing it for marketting, and individuals looking for a feasible way of having a sponsored adventure
2018-10-04T13:53:11 < karlp> no, just the decls
2018-10-04T13:53:56 < kakimir> I need that in all compile units?
2018-10-04T13:54:01 < kakimir> what does it do?
2018-10-04T13:54:06 < karlp> makes it work.
2018-10-04T13:54:16 < karlp> (stops name mangling from fucking up your linker)
2018-10-04T13:54:20 < dongs> Thorn: did it land yet
2018-10-04T13:54:35 < kakimir> can I have C++ inside those {}
2018-10-04T13:54:54 < karlp> no....
2018-10-04T13:55:04 < karlp> what would that even mean?
2018-10-04T13:55:26 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-04T13:55:32 < veverak> 12:51:52      kakimir │ I'm planning to replace the madness in those projects with sanity || wants to do this and does not know what extern "C" does
2018-10-04T13:55:34 < veverak> hmm
2018-10-04T13:55:35 < kakimir> besides my variable names are 200char long
2018-10-04T13:55:36 < veverak> I wonder 
2018-10-04T13:55:43 < veverak> O_O
2018-10-04T13:55:44 < kakimir> there is no keywords in there
2018-10-04T13:57:05 < cjbaird> karlp: The owner of Chinese company eZee did the SunTrip as well, although disqualifed because he refused to carry a GPS tracker.. 
2018-10-04T13:58:21 < karlp> why would you refuse that? that's a core part of these rallys
2018-10-04T13:58:39 < karlp> it's not even about "cheating" you still have to get from start to finish, 
2018-10-04T13:58:48 < karlp> just the marketting needs of the campagin to have the live tracks
2018-10-04T13:59:07 < cjbaird> "Wealthly Chinese Man"
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2018-10-04T14:00:31 < karlp> and?
2018-10-04T14:00:43 < karlp> oh, for robbery/abuction
2018-10-04T14:01:06 < Thorn> dongs: in progress
2018-10-04T14:01:16 < dongs> Thorn: just noticed
2018-10-04T14:01:28 < karlp> hrm, still, any participant in one of these rallys is always "rich" by most local standards.
2018-10-04T14:01:29 < Thorn> broadcast is live
2018-10-04T14:01:49 < karlp> they tend to get protected by local govt not wanting the press.
2018-10-04T14:02:30 < veverak> Haohmaru: if you "just write C++" yeah, if you want to replace with sanity and make good code, I think you need wide range of knowledge
2018-10-04T14:04:11 < cjbaird> Certainly in China and Mongolia, the route was a 'Westerner' one, with motels, service stops, etc., being well prepared for them.
2018-10-04T14:04:55 < cjbaird> (Motels for foreigners, and different ones for citizens..)
2018-10-04T14:07:47 < cjbaird> Aha, the local hipster bicycle shop is now an eZee motor stockist. I've putt of my own solar bike because the shops here all sell Alibaba junk... but eZee does look good now after most on SunTrip used them.
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2018-10-04T14:46:48 < dongs> touchdown
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2018-10-04T15:25:37 < Thorn> if I want a 24->5V, 10A buck, can I take any buck controller, add an external mosfet and a big inductor and call it a day?
2018-10-04T15:26:32 < dongs> thorn yeah
2018-10-04T15:26:45 < zyp> I guess the buck controller needs to be rated for the Vin
2018-10-04T15:30:42 < dongs> http://www.ti.com/power-management/non-isolated-dc-dc-switching-regulators/step-down-buck/buck-controllers-external-switch/products.html
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2018-10-04T15:31:22 < aandrew> Thorn: yeah that's pretty much it. the higher power you go the more careful you need to be about switching and losses go up if you haven't got the ability to drive the gate hard
2018-10-04T15:31:33 < aandrew> 50W isn't a ton of power though
2018-10-04T15:32:59 < zyp> some of the new EV fast chargers they put up here seems to be just a big buck regulator
2018-10-04T15:33:48 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/G1kED.jpg <- 950V in, 200-920V out
2018-10-04T15:34:22 < zyp> apparently without galvanic isolation
2018-10-04T15:34:57 < Thorn> ok thanks
2018-10-04T15:35:18 < zyp> what ground?
2018-10-04T15:35:57 < zyp> haha
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2018-10-04T15:44:55 < zyp> those are the old 50kW chargers, not the new 350kW ones
2018-10-04T15:45:41 < zyp> the new ones have galvanic isolation in front
2018-10-04T15:47:53 < zyp> I saw some docs on the station they are building with the new 350kW ones, they're using a 22kV to 480V substation with individual secondaries for each charger
2018-10-04T15:48:04 < zyp> so they get the galvanic isolation there and don't need it internally
2018-10-04T15:48:42 < zyp> and then there's a row of closets that I assume are 480VAC to 950VDC converters
2018-10-04T15:48:59 < zyp> i.e. boost-based pfc rectifiers
2018-10-04T15:49:26 < zyp> which again feeds the buck charging regulators
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2018-10-04T15:54:13 < zyp> I also think each secondary/AC-DC only supplies half the power required for 350kW output, so they probably run two in parallel to one charger when delivering 350kW
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2018-10-04T15:57:50 < sync> zyp: that seems like a pretty convoluted setup
2018-10-04T15:58:09 < zyp> idk
2018-10-04T15:58:13 < sync> but eh I guess using 15-22kV medium voltage to feed them is a good idea
2018-10-04T15:59:22 < zyp> well, when you are building a charging station with a couple of megawatts capacity, you're pretty much getting your own substation either way
2018-10-04T16:01:08 < sync> yeah
2018-10-04T16:01:33 < zyp> and saving the need for galvanic isolation in the AC/DC step probably justifies the cost of a special transformer with many secondaries
2018-10-04T16:02:29 < sync> I wonder if you actually need galvanic isolation
2018-10-04T16:02:34 < sync> as the car does that for you already
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2018-10-04T16:03:09 < zyp> the document I read made it sound like it's mandatory
2018-10-04T16:03:17 < sync> hmm
2018-10-04T16:06:15 < mawk> I ordered "breakout boards" for some QFN chip on ali, and I received them
2018-10-04T16:06:22 < mawk> and they're smaller than a 1€ coin
2018-10-04T16:06:28 < mawk> how the hell am I supposed to solder that
2018-10-04T16:07:00 < mawk> :(
2018-10-04T16:07:13 < mawk> also on the business card inside the package the company is promoting itself as selling "smart sexy vibrators"
2018-10-04T16:07:56 < mawk> "Shenzhen holyiot technology Co.,Ltd - IOT - Smart Lock - Smart sexy vibrator"
2018-10-04T16:08:09 < sync> > holyiot
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2018-10-04T16:21:10 < kakimir> nice
2018-10-04T16:22:09 < Sadale> What?
2018-10-04T16:22:37 < Sadale> I wouldn't want any smart vibrator.
2018-10-04T16:24:46 < dongs> holyiot, haha
2018-10-04T16:25:45 < kakimir> chines are stepping up their naming game
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2018-10-04T16:30:33 < mawk> https://pix.watch/ghqMq1/VzNK8E.jpeg
2018-10-04T16:30:35 < mawk> what's the name of this format
2018-10-04T16:30:42 < mawk> with the half holes and all
2018-10-04T16:30:48 < zyp> castellated vias
2018-10-04T16:30:54 < mawk> thanks
2018-10-04T16:31:02 < dongs> man my chrome is fucked
2018-10-04T16:31:06 < dongs> all pics load so fucking slow
2018-10-04T16:31:11 < dongs> and fullscreen black page first
2018-10-04T16:31:22 < Sadale> wow. "castellated vias".
2018-10-04T16:31:24 < veverak> that's because you load 8k resolution dicks
2018-10-04T16:31:29 < veverak> that has to be slow
2018-10-04T16:31:33 < Sadale> For once I thought that zyp was joking around.
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2018-10-04T16:31:51 < mawk> yeah this is a full resolution picture dongs 
2018-10-04T16:32:01 < zyp> Sadale, why?
2018-10-04T16:32:24 < Sadale> zyp, that just doesn't sound like a name to me somehow :P
2018-10-04T16:32:41 < Sadale> This word probably is having an obscure root. Perhaps latin or french or something
2018-10-04T16:33:15 < cjbaird> Makes me think of Castella cake..
2018-10-04T16:33:24 < mawk> it's just from castle Sadale 
2018-10-04T16:34:04 < karlp> mawk: what made you choose the holyiot module mawk?
2018-10-04T16:34:22 < Sadale> That totally spells like holyidiot
2018-10-04T16:35:04 < mawk> it looked like a decently-sized breakout board karlp 
2018-10-04T16:35:20 < mawk> and I needed one for that chip
2018-10-04T16:35:48 < mawk> there was another breakout board but much costlier
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2018-10-04T16:38:41 < mawk> I needed the nrf52840
2018-10-04T16:41:13 < karlp> well, found a nice full table scan in a stored procedure. scanning across allllll the partitions
2018-10-04T16:41:25 < karlp> now just need to wave a sql wand and make it "faster" 
2018-10-04T16:42:04 < mawk> I hate optimizing other's code
2018-10-04T16:44:59 < Sadale> stored procedure? Is it like programming script right inside the DBMS database?
2018-10-04T16:45:26 < zyp> ye¨s
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2018-10-04T16:46:11 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-04T16:46:18 < mawk> there are a few languages you can use
2018-10-04T16:46:28 < mawk> in the absolute it's pretty cool
2018-10-04T16:48:12 < karlp> well, it's not entirely relevant in this case whether it's stored in the db or not, the query is just fucked, regardless of who runs it
2018-10-04T16:48:49 < karlp> good news avr users: http://www.microchip.com/AVRandMPLAB
2018-10-04T16:50:32 < mawk> I found a socket adapter, and the good thing is that it's cheap https://www.elnec.com/en/products/programming-adapters/DIL48_QFN73-1.01_ZIF-CS_nRF-4/#70-4675
2018-10-04T16:51:38 < karlp> I thought you were using the module you got? why do you need a QFN socket?
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2018-10-04T16:52:40 < mawk> well I can't use the one I got
2018-10-04T16:53:01 < mawk> so I'm comparing the two options I have now: finding a socket for the IC itself, or creating some breakout board for the module
2018-10-04T16:54:05 < karlp> why cna't yuou use the one you got?
2018-10-04T16:54:28 < mawk> it's too small
2018-10-04T16:54:33 < karlp> isn't that why you bought it?
2018-10-04T16:54:55 < mawk> no, that's the thing
2018-10-04T16:55:12 < karlp> buy a different nrf52 board to get your development started?
2018-10-04T16:55:24 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-04T16:55:27 < mawk> but it's a bit expensive
2018-10-04T16:55:41 < mawk> unpopular ICs like this don't have cheap dev boards available
2018-10-04T16:55:56 < karlp> try harder?
2018-10-04T16:56:02 < karlp> nrf52 is pretty common these days....
2018-10-04T16:56:18 < karlp> are you looking for a development platform, or a module to go in your finished product?
2018-10-04T16:56:20 < zyp> uh, I picked up a cheap nrf52 board some years ago
2018-10-04T16:56:56 < karlp> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nordic-semiconductor-asa/NRF52840-DONGLE/1490-1073-ND/9491124
2018-10-04T16:56:59 < mawk> either would do, as long as the module to solder is big enough
2018-10-04T16:57:02 < jpa-> i wouldn't try running a wireless chip off a DIL adapter socket
2018-10-04T16:57:13 < karlp> "either" is a shitty answer
2018-10-04T16:57:18 < mawk> yeah I have a tab open on this dongle thing
2018-10-04T16:57:26 < karlp> you're either past dev and want somethjing to solder into your product, or you're not.
2018-10-04T16:58:37 < mawk> well I'm not designing a product, I just want something I can dev with
2018-10-04T16:58:42 < mawk> so anything usable is good
2018-10-04T16:59:21 < mawk> I'll try that dongle maybe
2018-10-04T16:59:46 < karlp> what's the 840 do tha tthe 832 doesn't?
2018-10-04T17:00:17 -!- Rickta59 [~kimballr@unaffiliated/rickta59] has quit [Quit: leaving]
2018-10-04T17:00:48 < mawk> the 832 isn't advertised as supporting 802.15.4
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2018-10-04T17:04:02 < emeryth> 840 has USB
2018-10-04T17:06:07 < emeryth> and that dongle, I don't think it's meant to be reprogrammed
2018-10-04T17:06:26 < zyp> of course it is, it has swd broken out
2018-10-04T17:07:07 < mawk> they say it can't be debugged yeah emeryth 
2018-10-04T17:07:12 < mawk> but it can be programmed afaik
2018-10-04T17:07:24 < mawk> with their studio IDE thing
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2018-10-04T17:19:45 < Sadale> Here I go. First time using logic analyzer outside my day job
2018-10-04T17:21:44 < emeb> Violating the old maxim "Never touch a logic analyzer unless you're being paid to do so"
2018-10-04T17:23:34 < englishman> which nrf52 mawk 
2018-10-04T17:23:52  * catphish quites like logic analysers :)
2018-10-04T17:26:45 < dongs> where teh fuck is info that shows how many gates etc the free cortex M1 needs
2018-10-04T17:34:02 < karlp> it's free now?
2018-10-04T17:34:29 < emeb> free to use encrypted RTL on Xilinx FPGAs
2018-10-04T17:35:01 < dongs> ya wat emeb said
2018-10-04T17:35:04 < dongs> man i cant even download it
2018-10-04T17:35:08 < englishman> ?
2018-10-04T17:35:09 < dongs> they  are dicking around on the downlaod page 
2018-10-04T17:35:10 < englishman> downloaded
2018-10-04T17:35:16 < englishman> looks like a fun tool
2018-10-04T17:35:18 < englishman> its 6mb
2018-10-04T17:35:21 < dongs> Unfortunately, you have encountered an unexpected problem with this service. The administrators of this service have been informed and we will contact you with more information. If you continue to have problems with this site, please contact support-connect@arm.com
2018-10-04T17:35:33 < dongs> when i try to agree to theri dumb licnese
2018-10-04T17:35:36 < englishman> https://www.worksonmymachine.pro
2018-10-04T17:35:40 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2018-10-04T17:35:51 < dongs> lol i almsot clicked that
2018-10-04T17:36:01 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/MijSxID.png
2018-10-04T17:37:23 < emeb> snap from your design?
2018-10-04T17:37:34 < englishman> what's M1 anyway?
2018-10-04T17:37:39 < englishman> no stm32 use it right
2018-10-04T17:37:47 < englishman> no, sample proj
2018-10-04T17:38:16 < emeb> IIRC M1 is a version of cortex-m that was specifically designed to be synthesizable
2018-10-04T17:38:28 < dongs> M1 is M0 for gpga
2018-10-04T17:38:30 < dongs> fpga
2018-10-04T17:38:34 < emeb> that
2018-10-04T17:38:46 < englishman> ah cool
2018-10-04T17:38:53 < emeb> the other M variants have custom IP in them 
2018-10-04T17:39:00 < emeb> that's harder to code in RTL
2018-10-04T17:39:25 < emeb> so if they have M3/M4 etc for FPGA then they had to tweak them from the standard stuff they sell.
2018-10-04T17:42:09 < englishman> According to Burr, one M1 CPU core takes up about 10 per cent of the gates in an Artix-7 gate array.
2018-10-04T17:42:15 < englishman> only the register has this information
2018-10-04T17:42:51 < emeb> lol - "10 per cent of the gates in an Artix-7 gate array"
2018-10-04T17:43:02 < englishman> yeah
2018-10-04T17:43:04 < emeb> *which* one
2018-10-04T17:43:14 < englishman> super helpful
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2018-10-04T17:43:51 < emeb> the kind of thing that someone who doesn't know what an FPGA is might say
2018-10-04T17:44:14 < englishman> implemented in as few as 4,300 tiles
2018-10-04T17:44:16 < englishman> ^ for actel
2018-10-04T17:44:21 < dongs> uh, which artix7
2018-10-04T17:44:32 < dongs> they're like up to $10k/chip versions
2018-10-04T17:44:35 < englishman> yeah.
2018-10-04T17:44:39 < englishman> your favoured news site
2018-10-04T17:44:53 < dongs> lunixnews.com?
2018-10-04T17:44:56 < englishman> register
2018-10-04T17:44:59 < dongs> oh
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2018-10-04T17:47:26 < dongs> the new bitstream takes about TWENTY MINUTES TO BUILD
2018-10-04T17:48:40 < catphish> <emeb> *which* one << it's marketing, so the biggest one they could find
2018-10-04T17:48:52 < catphish> or possibly just make up :)
2018-10-04T17:55:30 < dongs> found screenshot of build status
2018-10-04T17:55:35 < dongs> but the fucking LUT column is too narrow
2018-10-04T17:55:41 < dongs> cant tell 
2018-10-04T17:55:51 < dongs> anyway, it runs on $120 Arty-A7 board from digilent
2018-10-04T17:57:18 < englishman> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies
2018-10-04T17:57:20 < dongs> with sopace to spare
2018-10-04T17:58:14 < englishman> where can i buy these spychips
2018-10-04T17:58:34 < dongs> uh
2018-10-04T17:58:46 < dongs> picture = 6pin chip coil
2018-10-04T17:59:15 < englishman> yeah some mini-circuits unit
2018-10-04T18:00:05 < karlp> so, $120 cortex m0? soudns super useful :)
2018-10-04T18:03:33 < dongs> $120 M0 that you can fuck with i guess
2018-10-04T18:03:57 < dongs> why the fuck is the file .tgz
2018-10-04T18:04:03 < dongs> fucking lunix fags
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2018-10-04T18:46:00 < Laurenceb124> "Summarise the modern UK in one phrase"
2018-10-04T18:46:15 < Laurenceb124> >Gay, Muslim and living with HIV
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2018-10-04T18:51:14 < BrainDamage>  not funny laurenceb
2018-10-04T18:52:14 < emeb> Laurenceb124: this sounds like something you'd find amusing -> https://areomagazine.com/2018/10/02/academic-grievance-studies-and-the-corruption-of-scholarship/
2018-10-04T18:52:40 < Laurenceb124> emeb: interesting, thanks
2018-10-04T18:52:48 < emeb> epic trolling
2018-10-04T18:52:57 < Laurenceb124> BrainDamage: UK waifu face https://postimg.cc/gX5ZnY0F
2018-10-04T18:55:45 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/sGsRPWxp
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2018-10-04T19:00:42 < Laurenceb124> epic magapede my fellow redditors amirite?
2018-10-04T19:01:33 < englishman> got some peel-off soldermask
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2018-10-04T19:01:41 < englishman> now can do 2 sided pth
2018-10-04T19:01:47 < englishman> what year is it
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2018-10-04T19:02:36 < Laurenceb124> CY+3
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2018-10-04T19:05:47 < englishman> so where can I get hackerchips
2018-10-04T19:05:52 < englishman> to inject bitz
2018-10-04T19:06:00 < englishman> lcsc?
2018-10-04T19:06:35 < Sadale> great. I confirmed my theory about the cause of audio signal distortion with a logic analyzer.
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2018-10-04T19:09:23 < emeb> 1-bit quantizer?
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2018-10-04T19:15:46 < Sadale> my audiosynth is 1-bit anyway. So the bit-depth doesn't matter :P
2018-10-04T19:16:28 < emeb> #audiophool
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2018-10-04T19:20:17 < englishman> what the shit why is my cisco crashing
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2018-10-04T19:22:44 < emeb> infiltrated by china
2018-10-04T19:22:46 < BrainDamage> emeb: their metodology is partially flawed, they lack control groups to show that acceptance rate in other journals / fields for hoaxes is considerably lower ( other humanist fields and more strict hard science ones )
2018-10-04T19:23:09 < englishman> are there any good ip phones that record all calls by default
2018-10-04T19:23:24 < emeb> BrainDamage: true.
2018-10-04T19:24:15 < emeb> BrainDamage: OTOH, their argument might easily be extended to encompass all academic publishing.
2018-10-04T19:24:19 < BrainDamage> their results are not useless, but all their conclusions and analysis should be following a comparative exam
2018-10-04T19:24:42 < emeb> since even STEM-based publishing is driven by some of the same pressures.
2018-10-04T19:25:00 < emeb> ie financial / reputational / etc.
2018-10-04T19:26:46 < BrainDamage> yes, however, the more hard science topics are better capable to filter out such garbage by mere strict application of math and existing knowledge, since the logical process for review is not flawed as the authors suggest for the 'grievance' fields
2018-10-04T19:27:09 < BrainDamage> not as flawed*
2018-10-04T19:27:56 < emeb> I'd agree with that - the standards of "quality" are more objective.
2018-10-04T19:29:24 < emeb> But conversely, ISTR seeing some research recently that even technical papers are basically getting rubber-stamped by the review committees. Very little actual review taking place and a lot of bad science being published just to generate content.
2018-10-04T19:29:50 < emeb> academic clickbait if  you will.
2018-10-04T19:30:05 < BrainDamage> I agree with that
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2018-10-04T20:13:08 < englishman> is Grandstream GS-GXP2170 going to be much of an upgrade over SPA525G
2018-10-04T20:13:20 < englishman> i have their dect phone but i dont really like the interface
2018-10-04T20:15:44 < karlp> hrm, I wonder what the best way of running some code at exactly 5 minute intervals is.  I kinda want to use cron, but the process has to be long lived collecting stuff and just do things on 5 minute intervals.
2018-10-04T20:16:04 < karlp> I guess cron to send signal? or touch a magic file or socket.
2018-10-04T20:16:15 < englishman> mechanical turk
2018-10-04T20:16:24 < karlp> I wonder if it could just be 5 minutes from whenever, rather than on 0/5/10/15 etc past the hour
2018-10-04T20:16:35 < karlp> I wonder if that actually matters for anyone _really_
2018-10-04T20:17:36 < Rickta59> */5 * * * * /home/user/5minuteegg.sh
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2018-10-04T20:21:40 < karlp> yeah, but I need my program to be running the whole time, it's triggering to spit out 5 minute aggregations that I want to do.
2018-10-04T20:21:52 < Rickta59> signal
2018-10-04T20:22:09 < karlp> yeah, except that plays badly with just about everything pleasant and threaded 
2018-10-04T20:22:15 < karlp> but it was my first thought
2018-10-04T20:22:21 < karlp> cron to kill -SIGUSR1 or someshit
2018-10-04T20:22:25 < Rickta59> touch a file you are watching
2018-10-04T20:22:38 < karlp> currently thinking of cron to mqtt pub, because its' all on mqtt already,
2018-10-04T20:22:52 < karlp> a file would also work, but I've then got to setup filesystem notifier stuff I guess.
2018-10-04T20:23:12 < karlp> I've only ever used poll on sockets, I guess fds are fds :)
2018-10-04T20:24:45 < Rickta59> epoll
2018-10-04T20:26:13 < karlp> I'm processing continuously, just spitting out shit on the 5 minute mark
2018-10-04T20:26:25 < karlp> Rickta59: poll/epoll only matters if I'm going to have lots of them :)
2018-10-04T20:26:45 < emeb> have your main processing thread check time itself?
2018-10-04T20:27:24 < Rickta59> you are polling and waiting for some timeout?
2018-10-04T20:27:26 < karlp> emeb: yeah, just seems to tedious, I'd have to be running on a relatively fine resolution, 
2018-10-04T20:27:46 < karlp> yeah, I get messages every few secondsd I'm processing, and lseeping while waiting.
2018-10-04T20:28:02 < Rickta59> so your main thing is you want to wake from the sleep?
2018-10-04T20:28:07 < karlp> yeah, want to avoid busy checking 
2018-10-04T20:28:20 < Rickta59> you are actually using sleep?
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2018-10-04T20:28:37 < karlp> not so mcuh power sleep, this is desktop linux, it's avoiding cpu hogging, not low power sleep
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2018-10-04T20:42:27 < emeb> karlp: sigalarm() ?
2018-10-04T20:42:41 < emeb> https://linux.die.net/man/3/alarm
2018-10-04T20:56:05 < ds2> use select() or poll()
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2018-10-04T21:01:07 < mawk> not select
2018-10-04T21:01:10 < mawk> just poll, or epoll
2018-10-04T21:01:15 < mawk> select is an abomination
2018-10-04T21:12:54 < mawk> I just read your problem karlp , I'd use (e)poll on a timerfd
2018-10-04T21:12:59 < mawk> your process will sleep most of the time
2018-10-04T21:13:18 < mawk> or if you prefer signal-style stuff, use a bare timer and sleep 
2018-10-04T21:13:32 < mawk> but I don't like the special context of signals
2018-10-04T21:14:04 < mawk> gcc does provide pretty transparent trampolines to make you think a signal handler is any function, but there are things you can't do
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2018-10-04T21:16:58 < aandrew> what's wrong with select
2018-10-04T21:17:17 < aandrew> I use either select or poll depending on whether i"m working with fps or fds
2018-10-04T21:17:27 < mawk> fps ?
2018-10-04T21:17:50 < mawk> select and poll both work with file descriptors
2018-10-04T21:18:04 < mawk> they're more or less equivalent, just that select is much older and has a bloated interface
2018-10-04T21:18:09 < mawk> with the macros and bitfield and all
2018-10-04T21:18:45 < aandrew> mawk: yes you're right, I had a brainfart
2018-10-04T21:18:49 < mawk> (e)poll has a much finer control for certain events such as HUP/RDHUP on pipes/tty
2018-10-04T21:18:57 < mawk> while select just gives you a general "error" section that tells nothing
2018-10-04T21:19:30 < mawk> and epoll has better performance than poll, and also includes an edge-triggered mode instead of the traditionnal level-triggering of poll and select
2018-10-04T21:20:02 < aandrew> yeah but unless you're really going nuts with watching descriptors... you own't care about the performance difference
2018-10-04T21:20:08 < mawk> yeah
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2018-10-04T21:20:25 < mawk> also epoll allows you to attach opaque data to the file descriptors, instead of having to maintain a hashtable by your own
2018-10-04T21:20:43 < mawk> it can speed up developemnt time if you don't have this kind of structure handy in your mind or in your snippet folder
2018-10-04T21:30:00 < karlp> emeb: yeah, had looked at alarm, tbu that's "x seconds from now" not "at x:00 and x:05 and x:10 precisely"
2018-10-04T21:30:57 < karlp> mawk timerfds are a bit linux specific, but would probably work.
2018-10-04T21:31:30 < karlp> cronjob touching the files is probably easier given that cron is available anway
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2018-10-04T21:44:09 < mawk> if you don't like timerfd there's plain timers, and here you've got precise times too
2018-10-04T21:44:14 < mawk> and it's a POSIX API I think
2018-10-04T21:44:22 < mawk> see timer_create() and stuff
2018-10-04T21:52:48 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFV3FUlTzas nice manouvering
2018-10-04T21:54:33 < Steffanx> What's a GM superbia ?
2018-10-04T21:54:38 < Steffanx> Gay male?
2018-10-04T21:55:23 < Steffanx> chess?
2018-10-04T21:56:23 < Thorn> if I'm using a usb B port only for charging, what should I do with A, B and ID pins?
2018-10-04T21:57:12 < kakimir> chess mentioned
2018-10-04T21:57:18 < kakimir> Steffanx: you are up
2018-10-04T21:57:28 < Steffanx> no
2018-10-04T21:58:47 < Steffanx> is your leg fixed yet?
2018-10-04T21:59:38 < kakimir> news: musk's australian battery is success
2018-10-04T22:00:12 < Steffanx> uh?
2018-10-04T22:01:17 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMJdxX6Lw9Q Steffanx 
2018-10-04T22:02:51 < kakimir> Cracki: Thorn: UC2633
2018-10-04T22:03:18 < kakimir> confirmed working
2018-10-04T22:03:30 < kakimir> maxim has some chips, ti etc. that do the same thing
2018-10-04T22:03:51 < kakimir> +5V in and connect D+ and D- and it's done
2018-10-04T22:04:05 < kakimir> sometimes pull up/down some pin to change modes
2018-10-04T22:04:24 < Steffanx> ic  costs munny.
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2018-10-04T22:04:43 < kakimir> Steffanx: uc2633 is alibaba stuff
2018-10-04T22:04:47 < Thorn> I'm on the other side
2018-10-04T22:05:03 < Thorn> I've got a device that needs charging and doesn't have usb data capability
2018-10-04T22:05:13 < Thorn> *am designing a device
2018-10-04T22:05:24 < kakimir> interesting
2018-10-04T22:05:28 < kakimir> we are in same boat
2018-10-04T22:05:52 < kakimir> and I plan to do just attiny and a pile of passives to do charger detection
2018-10-04T22:06:21 < kakimir> not only DCP short between D+ an D-
2018-10-04T22:07:15 < Thorn> what pile of passives, why
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2018-10-04T22:10:18 < kakimir> I need to drive the lines to detect charger?
2018-10-04T22:10:47 < kakimir> Thorn: do you have price/size constraint?
2018-10-04T22:11:04 < kakimir> I know a chip that tells you what kind of charger or other device is connected
2018-10-04T22:11:15 < kakimir> i2c
2018-10-04T22:11:44 < kakimir> read some registers and different chargers have different values in those registers
2018-10-04T22:12:03 < kakimir> it also has OVP and OCP
2018-10-04T22:12:08 < kakimir> iirc
2018-10-04T22:12:22 < Thorn> I don't think I have any way to use that information except display it for user's amusement
2018-10-04T22:13:04 < Steffanx> i forgot you say happy animal day to you yesterday, so: Happy Animal day. Did you take care of the kittens well?
2018-10-04T22:13:10 < Steffanx> mr crt
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2018-10-04T22:14:24 < Steffanx> World Animal Day mate
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2018-10-04T22:14:59 < kakimir> Thorn: well don't you need to know how many amps you can get?
2018-10-04T22:15:12 < Thorn> I only need 0.5A anyway
2018-10-04T22:15:12 < kakimir> why are you doing charger detection anyways?
2018-10-04T22:15:37 < Thorn> I'm not, all I want to know is what to do with data and id pins lol
2018-10-04T22:15:48 < zyp> nothing?
2018-10-04T22:16:19 < Steffanx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Animal_Day
2018-10-04T22:16:24 < kakimir> Thorn: read usb bc1.2
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2018-10-04T22:17:00 < kakimir> it has the procedure to follow to detect SDP CDP and DCP
2018-10-04T22:17:19 < zyp> Thorn, if you're only sourcing power and doesn't care about checking how much you are allowed to draw, just leave DM/DP/ID floating
2018-10-04T22:17:30 < kakimir> that is an option
2018-10-04T22:17:39 < Thorn> ok thanks
2018-10-04T22:17:41 < kakimir> pretty good one for 500mA
2018-10-04T22:18:00 < zyp> charger detection is only relevant if you can adjust your draw according to available power, like battery charging can
2018-10-04T22:18:07 < zyp> i.e. charge slower when less power is available
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2018-10-04T22:18:21 < kakimir> that is what I'm doing
2018-10-04T22:19:19 < Thorn> my charging IC is 0.5A max anyway
2018-10-04T22:19:48 < zyp> if you're doing usb charging, you get charger ICs with DM/DP hookups that does the sensing themselves
2018-10-04T22:20:35 < Thorn> that does not sound cheap
2018-10-04T22:20:46 < aandrew> yep and they are cheap
2018-10-04T22:21:16 < kakimir> zyp: unless price constraint
2018-10-04T22:21:28 < kakimir> those are 4dollards a pop
2018-10-04T22:22:23 < kakimir> and made mainly for integrated battery charging with preset charging current
2018-10-04T22:22:33 < Thorn> my mcu is 6 times cheaper
2018-10-04T22:22:48 < Thorn> even my 20 bit adc from TI is 2x cheaper
2018-10-04T22:23:51 < kakimir> my charger step down regulator is 20-30cents
2018-10-04T22:23:54 < kakimir> and mcu 50cents
2018-10-04T22:24:23 < kakimir> coil 50cents maybe
2018-10-04T22:25:04 < kakimir> dual fet for shunt switching 50cents for 3step current adjust
2018-10-04T22:26:10 < kakimir> actually 30-40cents
2018-10-04T22:28:56 < kakimir> caps I don't want to even think about
2018-10-04T22:31:16 < karlp> mawk: hrm, hadn't seen that timer_create/settime had TIMER_ABSTIME mode, that would work maybe, but you still jsut get a signal though, woudl be tricky to get the right thing with threads maybe
2018-10-04T22:35:03 < karlp> poll on a control magic file from cron it's gonna be, until there are problems :)
2018-10-04T22:35:17 < kakimir> https://youtu.be/aYoT3JoOKLU?t=250 powersmoke
2018-10-04T22:35:57 < aandrew> 99.37% bitches
2018-10-04T22:36:07 < aandrew> 17 unrouted nets, and half of those are alitum just being stupid
2018-10-04T22:36:20 < kakimir> kicad never does that
2018-10-04T22:37:48 < Thorn> I'm going to have 5 devices on the same i2c bus
2018-10-04T22:37:59 < Thorn> let's hope none of them is going to  misbehave
2018-10-04T22:38:03 < aandrew> heh
2018-10-04T22:38:16 < aandrew> I have 8 i2c buses with 2 devices on 5 of those 8
2018-10-04T22:38:18 < Thorn> (I checked the addresses for conflicts)
2018-10-04T22:38:32 < kakimir> let's hope all of them need special tricks to work
2018-10-04T22:38:44 < Thorn> well my lpc824 has 4 i2c cores but I'm out of pins
2018-10-04T22:38:55 < aandrew> jesus kakimir don't be such an asshole... that's a really bad thing to wish on someone :-)
2018-10-04T22:38:57 < Thorn> some of them seem to need general call
2018-10-04T22:39:11 < aandrew> i2c is enough of a pain in the dick without wishing that on someone
2018-10-04T22:40:11 < Thorn> I wish TI used I2c on their ADS12xx instead of the worst frankenSPI ever
2018-10-04T22:41:32 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/15ff028D9_dUCaDDI5O0UIPmMigQMeHsR/view?usp=sharing I did it again?
2018-10-04T22:41:47 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/mjCF7LU
2018-10-04T22:42:06 < kakimir> made 0.11 after that it has exposed ground planes on front side
2018-10-04T22:42:25 < kakimir> near to holes for those loops
2018-10-04T22:42:29 < kakimir> for scoping
2018-10-04T22:42:49 < Thorn> those connectors look like tact switches in 3d view
2018-10-04T22:43:15 < aandrew> yeah
2018-10-04T22:43:25 < aandrew> that chip top center more or less is the i2c mux
2018-10-04T22:43:49 < aandrew> one bus for each of those digitizer subcircuits, one for the clock gens, one for the display and one unused
2018-10-04T22:43:51 < Steffanx> still the huge smas?
2018-10-04T22:44:14 < kakimir> no
2018-10-04T22:44:30 < kakimir> I don't see the point in this project to use SMAs
2018-10-04T22:44:51 < kakimir> this is all wrap wire and external boards with passives and discrete components
2018-10-04T22:46:25 < aandrew> they're MCX not SMA
2018-10-04T22:46:53 < kakimir> added flyback diode for coil
2018-10-04T22:47:09 < aandrew> dammit
2018-10-04T22:47:17 < kakimir> if I switch shunt fets both off
2018-10-04T22:47:20 < aandrew> lost about 3h of layout pics because I didn't have the script running
2018-10-04T22:47:59 < kakimir> you want to animate your layout process?
2018-10-04T22:48:23 < aandrew> just trying it to see how it looks
2018-10-04T22:48:27 < aandrew> I don't think it'll turn out all that well
2018-10-04T22:48:31 < aandrew> but it's an experiment
2018-10-04T22:48:38 < aandrew> dongs wanted me to livestream the shit but fuck that
2018-10-04T22:49:39 < kakimir> you are pals with dongs?
2018-10-04T22:50:27 < aandrew> we know each other
2018-10-04T22:50:36 < kakimir> irl+
2018-10-04T22:50:37 < kakimir> ?
2018-10-04T22:51:39 < kakimir> I'm a bit jelly
2018-10-04T22:52:28 < Steffanx> too much snus?
2018-10-04T22:52:31 < Steffanx> or whatever it was called
2018-10-04T22:53:01 < kakimir> no
2018-10-04T22:53:50 < kakimir> I can safelly slip in double and won't pass out
2018-10-04T22:54:15 < aandrew> no not irl
2018-10-04T22:54:19 < aandrew> different chans, lotta years
2018-10-04T22:54:50 < kakimir> I should animate some of my layout processes
2018-10-04T22:55:33 < kakimir> someone would find it interesting maybe
2018-10-04T22:56:19 < h4x0riz3d> i won't watch it
2018-10-04T22:56:58 < kakimir> you say you won't, but you actually would
2018-10-04T22:57:02 < h4x0riz3d> my heart hurts when u use teh legacy canvas
2018-10-04T22:57:08 < aandrew> did any of you notice the 45 degree termination resistors? I couldn't fit a few in any other way
2018-10-04T22:57:25 < kakimir> h4x0riz3d: I actually use opengl nowdays
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2018-10-04T22:57:38 < h4x0riz3d> oh really?
2018-10-04T22:57:52 < aandrew> if nothing else this board would be an interesting stm32 dev board
2018-10-04T22:58:00 < kakimir> and sometimes to see better what I'm drawing or manipulate things better I F9
2018-10-04T22:58:10 < h4x0riz3d> >:(
2018-10-04T22:58:22 < h4x0riz3d> y u no b a gud boi
2018-10-04T22:58:36 < Steffanx> He didnt have his stroopwaffle today.
2018-10-04T22:58:41 < kakimir> because I don't know how to bend opengl mode to my will
2018-10-04T22:58:58 < h4x0riz3d> there is no spoon, kakimir
2018-10-04T22:58:59 < kakimir> it seems to have it's own mind
2018-10-04T22:59:06 < aandrew> stm32 has USB 2.0HS, then 10/100 ethernet, 16-bit FMC, SPI and UART to the FPGA, and theFPGA has gig-e to the world and some SDRAM along with a shitload of 10Msps 18-bit ADCs
2018-10-04T22:59:09 < h4x0riz3d> YOU have to bend
2018-10-04T23:00:10 < kakimir> I slap top of my head and I hear echoing of empty space
2018-10-04T23:00:15 < kakimir> interesting
2018-10-04T23:00:27 < kakimir> it rings
2018-10-04T23:00:39 < Steffanx> Drugs is baaad wokay?
2018-10-04T23:00:40 < h4x0riz3d> ooh, a drum
2018-10-04T23:00:50  * h4x0riz3d plays kakimir's head like a drum
2018-10-04T23:01:04 < h4x0riz3d> such percusive
2018-10-04T23:01:12 < Steffanx> oh h4x0riz3d is antto. Explains a lot.
2018-10-04T23:01:21 < h4x0riz3d> no shizzle
2018-10-04T23:01:37 < Steffanx> Did you kill him?
2018-10-04T23:01:46 < h4x0riz3d> kill who?
2018-10-04T23:01:49 < kakimir> your nick makes you 10years younger than you are
2018-10-04T23:01:53 < Steffanx> mr antto.
2018-10-04T23:02:07 < h4x0riz3d> iz iz me >:/
2018-10-04T23:02:31 < h4x0riz3d> kakimir i invented this nickname probably 10 years ago
2018-10-04T23:02:46 < Steffanx> Back when it was still hot to use numbers of letters
2018-10-04T23:02:59 < h4x0riz3d> when "antto" was taken at youtube
2018-10-04T23:03:12 < h4x0riz3d> crap, don't tell teh dong(ue)s
2018-10-04T23:03:28 < kakimir> if you only said something stupid I would imagine you as teenager just moving on from hello world to coding stm32
2018-10-04T23:03:35 < kakimir> or trying to
2018-10-04T23:03:57 < h4x0riz3d> hm, can you give an example of something stupid?
2018-10-04T23:04:07 < kakimir> teenager stuff
2018-10-04T23:04:29 < h4x0riz3d> yo, any fine girls in here tonight?
2018-10-04T23:05:20 < h4x0riz3d> lookin for some I/O?
2018-10-04T23:06:03 < h4x0riz3d> i swear i'm 19
2018-10-04T23:06:12 < h4x0riz3d> i mean 21
2018-10-04T23:06:41  * h4x0riz3d opens up another RedBull
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2018-10-04T23:08:05 < h4x0riz3d> who am i kidding, teenagers today aren't on IRC
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2018-10-04T23:08:12 < kakimir> true
2018-10-04T23:09:42 < kakimir> I have a box of redbulls in my car
2018-10-04T23:10:04 < kakimir> from swedens
2018-10-04T23:10:16 < Steffanx> fuck redbull.
2018-10-04T23:10:24 < h4x0riz3d> X it out and u turn into Supermir
2018-10-04T23:10:37 < Steffanx> hypermir.
2018-10-04T23:10:45 < h4x0riz3d> Turbomir
2018-10-04T23:10:50 < kakimir> Steffanx: only scotch?
2018-10-04T23:11:19 < kakimir> h4x0riz3d: we are pumped
2018-10-04T23:11:38 < h4x0riz3d> u'll be like 1200 horse powah
2018-10-04T23:11:42 < Steffanx> and crt isnt even there.
2018-10-04T23:11:42 < h4x0riz3d> unstoppable
2018-10-04T23:11:51 < Steffanx> *here
2018-10-04T23:12:38 < h4x0riz3d> hm, reminds me of that movie.. Lucy
2018-10-04T23:13:24 < h4x0riz3d> if ya see any blue crystals - don't sniff it, eat it
2018-10-04T23:14:08 < Steffanx> will you turn into a usb stick?
2018-10-04T23:14:17 < kakimir> I did once
2018-10-04T23:14:38 < kakimir> I think it was not supposed to be eaten
2018-10-04T23:15:09 < h4x0riz3d> of course it wasn't.. but look at what happened
2018-10-04T23:15:14 < kakimir> almost vomited
2018-10-04T23:15:31 < kakimir> super bad taste
2018-10-04T23:15:56 < kakimir> for hours I felt like it was poison
2018-10-04T23:16:16 < h4x0riz3d> maan, change yer dealer
2018-10-04T23:16:20 < kakimir> head was spinning
2018-10-04T23:16:38 < h4x0riz3d> get some korean blue crystals
2018-10-04T23:17:18 < kakimir> korean you say :| hmm..
2018-10-04T23:17:29 < Steffanx> did kakimir watch Lucy?
2018-10-04T23:17:34 < kakimir> I keep it in mind
2018-10-04T23:17:34 < h4x0riz3d> probably not
2018-10-04T23:18:36 < kakimir> I had nice dream last night
2018-10-04T23:19:06 < kakimir> I was a cop - narc cop
2018-10-04T23:19:21 < kakimir> we raided or went casually into this house
2018-10-04T23:19:22 < h4x0riz3d> Horatiomir
2018-10-04T23:19:54 < kakimir> and everybody were high
2018-10-04T23:20:19 < h4x0riz3d> but all teh evidence were sniffed out
2018-10-04T23:20:26 < kakimir> then I did their drugs and flirted with girls and ate their pizza
2018-10-04T23:20:35 < h4x0riz3d> hahaah
2018-10-04T23:20:36 < kakimir> and left
2018-10-04T23:21:03 < h4x0riz3d> i feel much safer with such gud police around
2018-10-04T23:21:11 < kakimir> my partner took me home after this rough gig
2018-10-04T23:23:41 < h4x0riz3d> "that pizza on the table! nobody touch it! it's evidence, imma take it"
2018-10-04T23:25:18 < aandrew> ugh now I have three routes left and hav eto find the fuckers
2018-10-04T23:25:21 < aandrew> probabbly 1px wide
2018-10-04T23:25:25 < aandrew> er long
2018-10-04T23:26:22 < kakimir> doesn't altidongs have unconnected centering?
2018-10-04T23:26:32 < kakimir> like kicad has
2018-10-04T23:26:51 < h4x0riz3d> hahaah
2018-10-04T23:26:53 < Steffanx> ofcourse it has
2018-10-04T23:27:14 < kakimir> why not use it?
2018-10-04T23:27:23 < kakimir> center and zoom in
2018-10-04T23:27:26 < Steffanx> idk why 
2018-10-04T23:27:34 < Steffanx> not
2018-10-04T23:33:27 < aandrew> teach me
2018-10-04T23:33:39 < aandrew> if I use the pcb view, click all nets then sorty by unrouted
2018-10-04T23:33:47 < aandrew> I have cfg_sel which has unrouted of 0.002
2018-10-04T23:33:52 < aandrew> if I zoom, it just shows me the entire trace
2018-10-04T23:33:58 < aandrew> not highlighting the not routed part
2018-10-04T23:37:51 < Steffanx> You can also use the DRC stuff. if you have an unrouted rule enabled.
2018-10-04T23:37:57 < Steffanx> it should zoom afaik
2018-10-04T23:38:53 < aandrew> ah yes that'd do it
2018-10-04T23:40:20 < Steffanx> i was convinced there was some short cut to jump to unrouted stuff as well but i might be wrong. crt  knows
2018-10-04T23:40:31 < Steffanx> he has pro altium certificates.
2018-10-04T23:40:37 < Steffanx> show us your skills crt
2018-10-04T23:41:32 < Steffanx> ty
2018-10-04T23:42:51 < aandrew> not seeing it
2018-10-04T23:42:53 < aandrew> must have some rule off
2018-10-04T23:42:58 < aandrew> unconnected signal is on
2018-10-04T23:43:19 < aandrew> nevermind the rule itself was disabled
2018-10-04T23:44:23 < aandrew> wtf now I have 500 violations on unrouted net?
2018-10-04T23:45:00 < kakimir> number of vectors in route?
2018-10-04T23:45:34 < aandrew> oh
2018-10-04T23:45:41 < aandrew> blind via does not make connection with the bottom component
2018-10-04T23:46:37 < aandrew> 100.00% 
2018-10-04T23:46:46 < aandrew> now to save that to git and start making it pretty
2018-10-04T23:48:30 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/RLFeHvf suck it biznitchas
2018-10-04T23:50:47 < aandrew> well it's not happy yet
2018-10-04T23:50:52 < aandrew> but routing is complete
2018-10-04T23:51:54 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-05e1e253.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2018-10-04T23:54:52 < Steffanx> A P: drive :)
2018-10-04T23:59:24 < karlp> P is for PRO
2018-10-04T23:59:31 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/aa6a52P before pretty
2018-10-04T23:59:36 < aandrew> projects
--- Day changed Fri Oct 05 2018
2018-10-05T00:00:51 < Steffanx> No sma, but still huge aandrew :P
2018-10-05T00:00:53 < BrainDamage> karlp: a bit late, but systemd timers can solve your
2018-10-05T00:00:59 < BrainDamage> issue
2018-10-05T00:01:53 < aandrew> hm
2018-10-05T00:01:54 < BrainDamage> OnUnitInactiveSec would be the time since the unit last finished executing
2018-10-05T00:02:07 < aandrew> one thing that I did not anticipate was having to place designators for all those rooms
2018-10-05T00:02:14 < aandrew> would have been ncie to place once and copy but I deleted the rooms
2018-10-05T00:02:46 < BrainDamage> is that an array of sma?
2018-10-05T00:02:52 < aandrew> heh
2018-10-05T00:02:53 < aandrew> everyne says that
2018-10-05T00:02:54 < aandrew> MCX
2018-10-05T00:04:11 < karlp> BrainDamage: no, that's still not leaving the process running right? (also, no systemd on openwrt)
2018-10-05T00:04:33 < karlp> with that UC2633/34, what do you do with the dual version? suck 4A from two usb outlets?
2018-10-05T00:05:38 < karlp> and where is it? it's not on lcsc or ali
2018-10-05T00:10:43 < BrainDamage> karlp: what do you mean with "not leaving the process running"?
2018-10-05T00:12:09 < BrainDamage> karlp: you can tell it to count 5min from several references, can be the time you've started the timer, independent on execution length, can be 5 min since the unit last finished the job, can be 5 min relative to the start of an hour, etc
2018-10-05T00:12:52 < ds2> is there some new PC virus/trojan going around in the last 4-5 days?
2018-10-05T00:13:07 < ds2> spam attempts seems to have gone up 10x
2018-10-05T00:15:21 < ds2> email spam
2018-10-05T00:15:52 < ds2> email server is getting slammed... all from addresses tagged as spam level 1 (spam level 1's expire in 1 week, so they are recent)
2018-10-05T00:16:06 < ds2> seems to be all personal PCs...dynamic addresses
2018-10-05T00:16:44 < BrainDamage> could be idIoT
2018-10-05T00:17:06 < BrainDamage> find a vulnerability in one firmware and you've got thousands of machines with the same setup
2018-10-05T00:17:48 < aandrew> weird. I've got very very little spam lately
2018-10-05T00:18:24 < Ultrasauce> there's a new soho router worm, cant remember the name
2018-10-05T00:20:11 < Ultrasauce> https://blog.netlab.360.com/70-different-types-of-home-routers-all-together-100000-are-being-hijacked-by-ghostdns-en/
2018-10-05T00:20:24 < jadew> french seller on ebay - I write to him in english, he replies in french...
2018-10-05T00:20:32 < aandrew> you know what the craziest thing about this entire layout is?
2018-10-05T00:20:35 < aandrew> not once did altium crash
2018-10-05T00:20:53 < aandrew> it usually eats shit when pushing and shoving routing
2018-10-05T00:21:41 < BrainDamage> jadew: that's perfectly common with french
2018-10-05T00:22:21 < jadew> I'll answer back in romanian
2018-10-05T00:25:53 < Steffanx> Stroopwafel
2018-10-05T00:29:08 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2018-10-05T00:35:20 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:8070:a19d:2500:d577:307:c484:753d] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2018-10-05T00:41:03 < aandrew> hey Steffanx / crt: in altium, why does it INSIST on changing the annotation of some components? I've got a 12-part FPGA and when I go to annotate because I added some other components it ALWAYS wants to reannotate the FPGA so U5A -> U5C, U5B -> U5K etc etc
2018-10-05T00:41:18 < aandrew> I just un-check the FPGA but there's got to be a reason why it always wants to reannotate it
2018-10-05T00:45:25 < Steffanx> Sorry, thats too pro for me. Im just a casual user. Crt knows
2018-10-05T00:57:30 < englishman> anyone used PT4115
2018-10-05T01:03:26 < aandrew> not me
2018-10-05T01:03:27 < aandrew> what is it
2018-10-05T01:36:38 < englishman> moving head lights?
2018-10-05T01:50:22 < englishman> ah
2018-10-05T01:50:24 < englishman> nice
2018-10-05T01:50:30 < englishman> someone wants me to use it
2018-10-05T01:50:36 < englishman> but it is only available in china
2018-10-05T01:50:55 < englishman> and i havent found the white man original yet
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2018-10-05T01:57:56 < englishman> cool
2018-10-05T02:00:26 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2018-10-05T02:01:37 < englishman> it's only zeroes
2018-10-05T02:09:14 -!- gnom [~aleksande@178.150.7.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-05T02:09:37 < emeb> anyone tried loading up that ARM cortex M1 design example in Vivado?
2018-10-05T02:16:24 < Thorn> ##stm32space https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BETzFNmPDbA
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2018-10-05T03:22:18 < Laurenceb124> epic based magapede amirite my fellow redditors? Say hi to hbomberguy
2018-10-05T03:31:36 < englishman> emeb: dong said he did thismorning
2018-10-05T03:33:22 < Laurenceb124> hbomberguy is current year amazing atheist
2018-10-05T03:40:40 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/Bj0rJgS4
2018-10-05T03:41:09 < emeb> englishman: cool - I'll check w/ him. I kept getting errors when I tried.
2018-10-05T03:46:28 < Laurenceb124> tfw https://postimg.cc/PCXS6Ffp
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2018-10-05T03:57:15 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/7JLW5sCT
2018-10-05T04:19:49 < jadew> now that I have two DMMs, I don't know what the voltage is, should have learned from having two watches
2018-10-05T04:21:05 < jadew> as my reference heats up, one drifts down the other up lol
2018-10-05T04:23:38 < ds2> so take the average 
2018-10-05T04:24:11 < jadew> but one could be accurate
2018-10-05T04:26:23 < aandrew> jadew: hahaha
2018-10-05T04:26:38 < aandrew> you know the saying: a man with one watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure.
2018-10-05T04:26:47 < jadew> exactly
2018-10-05T04:27:09 < aandrew> I've got a... 5.5 digit? bench DMM that I use when I need something with more resolution than my fluke 87
2018-10-05T04:27:34 < Ultrasauce> is this what they mean when they say all voltages are relative
2018-10-05T04:28:27 < jadew> Ultrasauce, so I should just reference them to slightly different 0s?
2018-10-05T04:28:53 < Ultrasauce> like taring a scale
2018-10-05T04:30:08 < jadew> aandrew, I don't really care about resolution that much, but this thing bothers me
2018-10-05T04:31:56 < jadew> they've reached stability, they're different by almost 10 counts :/
2018-10-05T04:34:18 < jadew> gonna take out my resistor standards, but if they're off for voltage, they're going to be off for resistance and current too
2018-10-05T04:45:45 < jadew> yep, one is off
2018-10-05T04:48:28 < jadew> and the difference varies with the range
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2018-10-05T04:50:36 < machinehum> ls
2018-10-05T04:51:34 < jadew> .
2018-10-05T04:51:34 < jadew> ..
2018-10-05T04:51:40 < machinehum> hi
2018-10-05T04:54:11 < jadew> hi
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2018-10-05T04:57:54 < ds2> get a LM4040
2018-10-05T04:58:50 < jadew> I have a LM399, but that's not the issue
2018-10-05T04:59:50 < jadew> the issue is they're not giving me the same number
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2018-10-05T05:54:29 < englishman> welcome back machinehum 
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2018-10-05T06:51:51 < cjbaird> No FT818. What kind of trash company sends $1500 of gear by surface mail.
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2018-10-05T06:59:08 < machinehum> englishman: hi
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2018-10-05T07:08:01 < machinehum> leave
2018-10-05T07:08:04 < machinehum> lol
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2018-10-05T08:12:24 < englishman> attn dongs https://i.imgur.com/sPmjGvA.gifv
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2018-10-05T08:16:03 < jpa-> poor drone
2018-10-05T08:18:44 < Ultrasauce> another dji success story?
2018-10-05T08:22:16 < ohsix> hurf got like 200 message windows in august
2018-10-05T08:23:36 < ohsix> heheh gnaa bots talking about a freenode ico???/
2018-10-05T08:24:19 < ohsix> so how about that bloomberg magazine article eh
2018-10-05T08:28:18 < ohsix> any of you guys go to any of the nerd conventions? going to travel a lot next year
2018-10-05T08:29:41 < ohsix> update on the person that shot at me: still going on and she was mentally ill at teh time and i didn't know :(
2018-10-05T08:31:38 < ohsix> and by happy accident of them being a huge retard, she's put almost all the fraud schemes on a public, permanent record
2018-10-05T08:36:36 < ohsix> bluh
2018-10-05T08:37:54 < ohsix> if anyone does contract work in electronics & related stuff let me know, working for a company that has a really good stable of players but a shallow bench. if they're lucky enough to have lots of concurring contracts, they don't have people to allocate to them
2018-10-05T08:38:47 < englishman> welcome back o6
2018-10-05T08:41:54 < ohsix> hi
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2018-10-05T08:46:57 < cjbaird> <- double-conversion superhet master race
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2018-10-05T08:47:50 < cjbaird> Went out to buy funeral pants, and of course, the delivery happened while I was out..
2018-10-05T08:54:23 < cjbaird> Got a AR world map with it too.. https://imgur.com/a/FCh67pA
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2018-10-05T09:37:29 < oz4ga> cjbaird: going anywhere interresting w. that lil' ft-818?
2018-10-05T09:39:03 < cjbaird> Oh.. around Australia again.  I knew Jeff Johnson, who walked across, and he took his FT817 with him.
2018-10-05T09:39:23 < cjbaird> Solar Bike plan..
2018-10-05T09:42:28 < cjbaird> atm there's a local CW group, and we're doing rgeular secret Nets on Sundays. (secret== we don't want anyone from the Amaeur Radio Contesting Meat Grinder finding out about us. :)
2018-10-05T09:44:33 < oz4ga> you could go warc band to avoid contesting droids, but there is of cause always propagation and ground wave to take into consideration
2018-10-05T09:48:05 < oz4ga> sounds interresting :)
2018-10-05T09:48:05 < cjbaird> Yep. We've found the local topology makes 10M the best band for us. And it's more that we don't want unsolicited phonecalls or being bothered about it when the RD Contest is happing..
2018-10-05T09:49:13 < cjbaird> Although now that I've got the '818 and can do more than HF, I should ask if the other guy(s) can do CW on 2/70
2018-10-05T09:52:42 < oz4ga> if 10m is working for you, then so will 12m most probably. Going vertical on 2m or 70cm cw will probably also keep most away
2018-10-05T09:54:59 < cjbaird> One day I'll drop my pants for PayPal and get a uBITX, then play with a Nucleo32 inside it. The locals here are excited for the QRPLabs QSX, but that's surprisingly closed-source..
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2018-10-05T10:03:16 < oz4ga> uBITX looks like it's an Arduino, but of cause you could do it w. a f103 instead
2018-10-05T10:08:20 < cjbaird> Arduino Nano. Going try the NUCLEOL432KC. Someone's already tried it with a similar board, and used a 240x320 display as well (over the 16x2 LDC)
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2018-10-05T11:57:47 < Ecco> Guys, what would be the pros/cons of using Flash memory over QuadSPI vs FSMC?
2018-10-05T11:58:38 < Ecco> I guess I could also include SDIO in my question as well
2018-10-05T12:03:07 < Ultrasauce> application?
2018-10-05T12:03:19 < Ultrasauce> the biggest question is whether you want low latency
2018-10-05T12:07:11 < Ecco> oh, interesting
2018-10-05T12:07:32 < Ecco> well, application being pretty much = our firmware's growing
2018-10-05T12:07:44 < Ecco> so storing and running code
2018-10-05T12:08:34 < Ultrasauce> definitely fsmc then
2018-10-05T12:10:41 < Ecco> ok, what would be the difference?
2018-10-05T12:11:09 < Ultrasauce> the flash would be mapped into the address space
2018-10-05T12:11:19 < Ultrasauce> so it can be directly referenced
2018-10-05T12:11:49 < Ecco> AFAIK QuadSPI can be memory mapped too
2018-10-05T12:12:12 < Ecco> that's what the datasheet says, at least (STM32F412)
2018-10-05T12:12:16 < Ultrasauce> oh I was ignorant of that
2018-10-05T12:12:27 < Ecco> "memory-mapped mode: the external Flash memory is mapped to the microcontroller address space and is seen by the system as if it was an internal memory"
2018-10-05T12:12:41 < Ecco> (that's in the "Quad-SPI interface" section)
2018-10-05T12:16:29 < Ecco> I quite didn't get your note about latency
2018-10-05T12:18:05 < Ultrasauce> is it acceptable for an instruction fetch to take the amount of time required to carry out a read command via the qspi interface
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2018-10-05T12:23:03 < Ultrasauce> really I brought up latency because you mentioned sdio...sd cards can have nondeterministic latency on reads, up to tens of milliseconds
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2018-10-05T12:27:55 < jadew> englishman, interesting clip - did they came up with solutions?
2018-10-05T12:28:57 < jadew> does the same happen if it hits a bird?
2018-10-05T12:36:40 < jadew> apparently it has the same effect
2018-10-05T12:39:57 < karlp> heh, friend got a bike light with a usb c charge port.
2018-10-05T12:40:05 < karlp> works fine with a usb a->c cable.
2018-10-05T12:40:10 < karlp> doesn't charge at all with a c-c cable
2018-10-05T12:40:41 < jadew> proudly designed in china?
2018-10-05T12:41:51 < karlp> BrainDamage: I meant that the process will be long running, so sytemd can only start them, like a fancy cron replacement, it doesn't help me inside the program.
2018-10-05T12:43:59 < jpa-> i wonder how you could fail that way.. it's trying PD negotiation and fails it and doesn't fallback to BC?
2018-10-05T12:45:11 < jpa-> Ecco: if you try to read code/data in the external flash and it is not in cache, the whole CPU will pause until it gets the data from there, which can be like 100 clock cycles or more
2018-10-05T12:45:14 < jadew> karlp, what are you talking about? I'm trying to piece the conversation together, but I can't trace it all
2018-10-05T12:45:55 < jpa-> (and that 100 clocks is for quadspi, for SD cards it could indeed be up to milliseconds if you also do writes)
2018-10-05T12:46:47 < jpa-> for FSMC and NOR flash, the latency would typically be around ~10 clocks
2018-10-05T12:46:50 < Ultrasauce> is qspi even cached? the bus crossbar diagram indicates it's only hooked up to the S bus
2018-10-05T12:48:02 < jpa-> i'm not sure about F4, on F7 it is atleast
2018-10-05T12:49:04 < Ultrasauce> you could also roll your own paging and just use dma!!
2018-10-05T12:49:32 < jpa-> Ecco: are you growing beyond the 2MB max flash?
2018-10-05T12:49:45 < cjbaird> 'overlays' as we used to call them..
2018-10-05T12:49:46 < jpa-> just a few weeks ago i amazed people by our 900kB firmware :P
2018-10-05T12:55:23 < jpa-> yeah, looks like on F4 there is no caching for quadspi nor fsmc, so they will be quite slow; quadspi does prefetch the next bytes though, but i'd expect it to still slow down execution by 10x or so
2018-10-05T12:55:57 < jpa-> on F7 quadspi would be a reasonable choice
2018-10-05T12:56:32 < Ultrasauce> I'm impressed it even does memory mapping. did not expect that at all
2018-10-05T12:56:46 < jadew> "karlp: hrm, I wonder what the best way of running some code at exactly 5 minute intervals is.  I kinda want to use cron, but the process has to be long lived collecting stuff and just do things on 5 minute intervals."
2018-10-05T12:56:46 < jpa-> it's a newish feature, not on the older F4s
2018-10-05T12:57:07 < jadew> karlp, have a thread notifying an event every 5 minutes
2018-10-05T12:57:19 < Ultrasauce> yeah f407 is the last one I got intimate with
2018-10-05T12:57:20 < karlp> jadew: you're even crazier. why would you bring threads into this :)
2018-10-05T12:57:23 < jadew> in the main loop, you can then wait for the event and do the job when the even hits
2018-10-05T12:57:33 < karlp> also, the trick is to get wall clock 5 minutes, not just 5 minutes after something else.
2018-10-05T12:57:48 < jadew> yeah, the thread would do that
2018-10-05T12:57:54 < jadew> it would just trigger the event
2018-10-05T12:57:59 < jpa-> not much trick about that, alarm(300 - time() % 300)?
2018-10-05T12:58:14 < jadew> then in your main loop, you'd do the thing when the wait for the event ends 
2018-10-05T12:58:21 < karlp> jpa-:  how is that not just doing 300 seconds from now?
2018-10-05T12:58:34 < jadew> while (true) { event.wait(); doStuff(); }
2018-10-05T12:58:44 < karlp> oh, nearest 5 minutes formnow with the mod
2018-10-05T12:58:51 < jpa-> yeah
2018-10-05T12:59:10 < karlp> jadew: yours is better than "use systemd" but otherwise way more complicated
2018-10-05T12:59:23 < jadew> then in your thread you'd do while (true) { thread::sleep_for(5m); event.notify() }
2018-10-05T12:59:28 < jadew> it's not complicated
2018-10-05T12:59:41 < karlp> that requires signal handling, which may be easy enough, I've been wary of it before because it doens't handle threads well.
2018-10-05T13:00:00 < karlp> jadew: no, yours is horrific.
2018-10-05T13:00:32 < jadew> what's wrong with it?
2018-10-05T13:00:58 < jpa-> seems reasonable to me, especially if your main thread is already waiting for some set of events
2018-10-05T13:01:06 < jpa-> just make a new event type for the "every 5 mins" stuff
2018-10-05T13:01:15 < karlp> why the fuck would I want to add a thread for this? your not even handling the wall clock portion
2018-10-05T13:01:42 < jadew> karlp, you want it to be fired at 0, 5, 10, etc?
2018-10-05T13:01:55 < jadew> not at 5 minute intervals, regardless of the time?
2018-10-05T13:01:56 < karlp> current plan is to poll the existing fds for other events, with a timeout that gives enough resolution to hit the intervals nicely.
2018-10-05T13:02:05 < karlp> yes, at 0,5,10, that's what I'd said originally.
2018-10-05T13:02:24 < jadew> so, add that to the initial wait
2018-10-05T13:02:27 < jadew> problem solved
2018-10-05T13:02:33 < jadew> (the offset
2018-10-05T13:02:34 < jadew> )
2018-10-05T13:02:57 < jpa-> if you don't need to interrupt the event currently being processed, why not just   timeout = 300 - time() % 300;  and then check if you are past that after the poll()?
2018-10-05T13:03:41 < jadew> with the event waiting, you waste almost 0 CPU time
2018-10-05T13:03:46 < karlp> might be nice that way, yeah
2018-10-05T13:04:04 < karlp> need to make sure it doesn't hit multiple times in that second though
2018-10-05T13:04:14 < jadew> the event handler will get spurious wakes and will have to deal with them, but that's a lot more efficient than pooling
2018-10-05T13:04:58 < jpa-> yeah, i'd do      time_t next_time = time(); next_time += 300 - next_time % 300;   to initialize outside the loop, and then inside loop   if (time() >= next_time) { do_something(); next_time += 300; }
2018-10-05T13:05:07 < jpa-> though that will fail for leap seconds :)
2018-10-05T13:05:20 < karlp> that doesn't matter :)
2018-10-05T13:05:27 < karlp> well, not really.
2018-10-05T13:05:37 < karlp> but it would self correct right, it won't just become off by one second forever does it
2018-10-05T13:05:54 < jpa-> depends on what way the operating system translates leap seconds to time_t, i'm not sure if that is standard
2018-10-05T13:06:44 < jpa-> ah, apparently unix time is always exactly 864000 per day, and the OS will then just do something funky for the 1 second
2018-10-05T13:06:53 < jpa-> so yeah, should work fine after that again
2018-10-05T13:07:29 < jpa-> i think that should also work for NTP time corrections, like if time() jumps forwards or backwards by a few seconds, it will still trigger exactly once
2018-10-05T13:08:25 < jpa-> jadew: poll() doesn't really poll continuously, it's also event driven
2018-10-05T13:09:47 < jadew> ah, then it should be fine
2018-10-05T13:10:29 < jadew> interesting, I've only used select before
2018-10-05T13:10:57 < jpa-> i originally thought that the issue was that karlp wants to interrupt some long-running processing for the higher priority 5min event, which would then need threads or signals; but if that's not the case, calculating correct timeout should be the easiest way
2018-10-05T13:11:54 < jpa-> jadew: yeah, silly that there are both poll() and select() when they are so similar
2018-10-05T13:11:55 < karlp> jadew: poll is just select without a 1024 socket limitation in the api
2018-10-05T13:12:12 < karlp> but same basic mechanism and scalability limits.
2018-10-05T13:12:12 < jadew> karlp, good to know, was wondering what the difference was
2018-10-05T13:12:42 < jpa-> and nowadays there is pselect() and epoll() also :P
2018-10-05T13:12:54 < jadew> btw, if you're using c++, you can use jpa-'s method with this_thread::sleep_until or sleep_for
2018-10-05T13:12:58 < karlp> jpa-: yeah, I wasn't clear on that, I've been working on the assumption that handling the other events is "small"
2018-10-05T13:13:10 < karlp> I'm not using c++. this will be lua.
2018-10-05T13:13:27  * karlp has to lookup pselect
2018-10-05T13:13:44 < karlp> epoll vs poll is just if you want to do LOTTTS of connections/fds and dont' need to be portable
2018-10-05T13:14:33 < karlp> pselect jsut lets you use nanos and have signals, it's still 1024 socket limited
2018-10-05T13:16:04 < jpa-> looks like there is also ppoll() that lets you specify sigmask :P
2018-10-05T13:21:53 < karlp> marginally less code than registering signal handlers separately I guess.
2018-10-05T13:24:42 < jpa-> nah, it's important if you want to prevent race conditions between signals and fds
2018-10-05T13:26:18 < karlp> oh yeah, the signal handlers are completely async.
2018-10-05T13:27:10 < karlp> but, if you're using poll/select anyway, you (probably) dont hgave threads
2018-10-05T13:30:04 < jpa-> hahaha, you wish :)
2018-10-05T13:31:00 < jpa-> my codebase has signals, threads, poll(), hardware interrupts with OS access, and hardware interrupts without OS access
2018-10-05T13:31:27 < jpa-> but fortunately with fixed-priority RTOSses you can do stupid things and get away with race conditions most of the time
2018-10-05T13:32:51 < karlp> are you talking about your host linux stuff? or is this nuttx poll/signals/posixy stuff?
2018-10-05T13:32:58 < jpa-> nuttx
2018-10-05T13:34:04 < karlp> I love it, "The effects of signal() in a multithreaded process are unspecified."
2018-10-05T13:34:53 < jpa-> signal() is deprecated, use sigaction()
2018-10-05T13:35:07 < karlp> yeah, and the sigaction objects are what pselect and ppoll take
2018-10-05T13:35:38 < karlp> so, is altium 365 going to be cheap? or just cloud based and still $$$
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2018-10-05T13:36:48 < jpa-> though in my nuttx stuff, i do things weirdly and basically each thread is a separate process and has independent signal delivery; but they are all in the same memory space anyway
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2018-10-05T16:45:26 < mawk> karlp: if you want timers in multithreaded apps you can use a special flag
2018-10-05T16:45:32 < mawk> the signal will be sent to a specific thread
2018-10-05T16:45:44 < mawk> instead of a random one
2018-10-05T16:46:15 < karlp> stahp
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2018-10-05T17:12:12 < kakimir> should I have "LPC11xx.h" or <LPC11xx.h> ?
2018-10-05T17:12:26 < kakimir> I have first one and it works
2018-10-05T17:14:14 < kakimir> why my standard libs are unresolved inclusions?
2018-10-05T17:14:24 < kakimir> until I build it and it builds
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2018-10-05T17:18:25 < kakimir> should #include "stdint.h" even build?
2018-10-05T17:18:48 < kakimir> or do I have my build settings fucked?
2018-10-05T17:19:04 < kakimir> my strategy is if it builds don't touch it
2018-10-05T17:19:06 < zyp> try taking "C programming 101" or something
2018-10-05T17:19:12 < zyp> this is the basic of the basic
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2018-10-05T17:20:54 < zyp> but to actually answer the question, #include "" searches relative to the file it was invoked in first, then searches include path
2018-10-05T17:21:02 < zyp> #include <> only searches include path
2018-10-05T17:22:06 < kakimir> it's amazing what I have done with submediocre C skills
2018-10-05T17:22:10 < zyp> I prefer using "" for local includes and <> for library includes, but you can get away using "" for everything unless there's any name conflicts
2018-10-05T17:22:23 < kakimir> I knew that
2018-10-05T17:22:37 < zyp> and you could also add . to include path and use <> for everything, but at that point you can go fuck yourself
2018-10-05T17:22:39 < kakimir> but I didn't know I could use "" for everything
2018-10-05T17:23:03 < kakimir> I had one local include with <>
2018-10-05T17:23:13 < kakimir> just fixing all these files
2018-10-05T17:24:32 < kakimir> can't use use some define that tells the compiler location?
2018-10-05T17:24:55 < kakimir> btw.. can I create such string that automatically becomes build date?
2018-10-05T17:25:04 < kakimir> and compiler and whatnot
2018-10-05T17:25:08 < kakimir> sweet
2018-10-05T17:27:40 < kakimir> I took this project to laptop via git and it didn't build there
2018-10-05T17:28:02 < kakimir> Imma bit of a noob
2018-10-05T17:28:12 < kakimir> I hope this computer doesn't fail
2018-10-05T17:30:24 < kakimir> and on this computer only release build generates non-faulting binaries
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2018-10-05T18:39:47 < englishman> imagine what you could do with sub-mediocre python
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2018-10-05T18:47:03 < BrainDamage> englishman: sub-mediocre python https://ptpb.pw/NHfI.png
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2018-10-05T18:53:23 < Steffanx> Id use Go for that
2018-10-05T18:54:06 < englishman> if your heart rate looks like that id go see a doctor
2018-10-05T18:54:28 < englishman> oh, red is heartrate
2018-10-05T18:54:30 < englishman> nvm
2018-10-05T18:55:23 < englishman> time for cheese fondue and alphorn practice
2018-10-05T18:56:35 < Steffanx> And hunting geese
2018-10-05T19:03:13 < kakimir> updated field test unit without testing firmware first.. yolo
2018-10-05T19:03:16 < kakimir> it seems to work
2018-10-05T19:05:30 < kakimir> great success
2018-10-05T19:13:45 < Steffanx> Gutentag
2018-10-05T19:14:23 < jadew> turns out EEVBlog's meter was a bit slow when autoraging, but what's surprising is that brymen is the best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUCQuIp_hzU
2018-10-05T19:14:47 < jadew> I wonder how it compares with fluke and other keysight models (the brymen)
2018-10-05T19:15:41 < jadew> subscriber count
2018-10-05T19:16:07 < markus-k> "a bit slow"
2018-10-05T19:16:36 < jadew> heh, yeah
2018-10-05T19:17:21 < markus-k> it's almost unusably slow for quickly measuring some things
2018-10-05T19:18:08 < jadew> yeah
2018-10-05T19:20:21 < Steffanx> i own that brymen jadew, its ok for me.
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2018-10-05T19:20:55 < jadew> Steffanx, I have the 867, great meter
2018-10-05T19:21:24 < jadew> I wish I went for the 869, but I figured I already had one that could do temperature
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2018-10-05T19:23:49 < jadew> question is, how is he doing that in parallel, cuz I can't do it with my meters
2018-10-05T19:23:57 < jadew> they end up measuring each other
2018-10-05T19:25:23 < Thorn> https://i.imgur.com/oliSraj.png
2018-10-05T19:26:12 < jadew> is that circuitbreaker?
2018-10-05T19:26:15 < Steffanx> Isnt this altium? Didnt you give up on that?
2018-10-05T19:35:22 < jadew> any ideas how he wired them?
2018-10-05T19:35:54 < jadew> ah, they all act up in his video too
2018-10-05T19:38:19 < jadew> hmm, my cheap axio dmm seems to be as fast as the brymen
2018-10-05T19:38:28 < jadew> the bench dmm is instant
2018-10-05T19:39:19 < aandrew> Thorn: C12 adn R9 should be rotated
2018-10-05T19:39:41 < aandrew> interesting how you route iwth silk visible
2018-10-05T19:39:54 < aandrew> I have all that turned off until routing is complete and then I cram that shit in whereever I can
2018-10-05T19:40:19 < aandrew> that's after making sure all the vias are tented, but I use 0.2mm drills so I can write silk on top of them
2018-10-05T19:40:26 < zyp> I just hide the designators and let them stay hidden
2018-10-05T19:42:20 < englishman> plz no
2018-10-05T19:42:54 < aandrew> I think englishman might rape me on assembly charges for this board
2018-10-05T19:43:10 < englishman> depends
2018-10-05T19:44:02 < aandrew> englishman: three BGAs in an area (2x 1mm and 1x 0.8mm); board is approx 50mm x 250mm and I have three global fiducials. I also added three additional fiducials right around the BGAs. is that enough for your equipment?
2018-10-05T19:44:07 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ScDxl.png <- I tend to pack my components densely enogh that there's no room for designators without making it all look like shit
2018-10-05T19:44:22 < aandrew> zyp: there's LOTS of room there
2018-10-05T19:44:26 < englishman> how much do the BGAs cost? i have done zero BGAs so far
2018-10-05T19:44:35 < zyp> aandrew, sure, but not next to every single component
2018-10-05T19:44:38 < englishman> but ive only been asked to do 0.5mm pitch ones
2018-10-05T19:44:42 < aandrew> who does right next to?
2018-10-05T19:45:42 < aandrew> zyp: https://imgur.com/BI7v6Bc and https://imgur.com/oiOjozs, particularly left side of second one
2018-10-05T19:45:43 < Thorn> superbia: well if you only populate the leftmost part then it will be just a charger lol
2018-10-05T19:47:30 < aandrew> englishman: $40 for the FPGA, $17 for the stm32 and $6 for the SDRAM
2018-10-05T19:47:46 < englishman> yeah i probably won't touch that
2018-10-05T19:47:58 < englishman> tho i probably could, fucking it up would suck
2018-10-05T19:48:04 < englishman> and id rather fuck up bga on my own dime
2018-10-05T19:48:19 < zyp> aandrew, cute, but I don't have the patience for that
2018-10-05T19:48:20 < aandrew> 10M16DAF256C8G is 1mm 256 ball, STM32 is 0.8 I think and SDRAM is 1mm
2018-10-05T19:48:38 < englishman> stm32 makes a 0.8?
2018-10-05T19:48:46 < aandrew> Intel/Altera really dropped the ball on naming that
2018-10-05T19:48:53 < aandrew> should have been 10M16DGAF
2018-10-05T19:49:01 < zyp> aandrew, also, it's not immediately obvious to me which is which of R133 and R147 on first one
2018-10-05T19:49:56 < jadew> I hide deisgnators too, when I have to deal with a PCB I'll do it with the CAD software in front of me anyway
2018-10-05T19:50:17 < jadew> aandrew's boards do look pretty tho
2018-10-05T19:50:19 < zyp> that's how I think too
2018-10-05T19:50:58 < zyp> designators are useless without the schematic, and if I have to look up the schematic I might as well look up the assembly drawing as well
2018-10-05T19:51:29 < aandrew> zyp: the six along the bottom are R153,154,155,150,151,152, the three above are R132,R133(NP) and R134, then the top two are 129 and 130 
2018-10-05T19:51:50 < aandrew> altium really fucks me off with assembly drawings
2018-10-05T19:52:03 < aandrew> there's no way to say "center this ".Designator" text in the center of the fucking part
2018-10-05T19:52:26 < aandrew> or rather, you can't anchor the string in the middle, only to the ends 
2018-10-05T19:52:51 < karlp> zyp: they're also handle for people revenging and modding your board to refer to, even without schematics  :)
2018-10-05T19:53:03 < aandrew> there's no revenge there
2018-10-05T19:53:15 < aandrew> cloners are just going to scan it and make their own assembly drawing from it
2018-10-05T19:53:21 < zyp> karlp, that can be done with assembly drawings too
2018-10-05T19:53:38 < zyp> or photos/scans or whatever
2018-10-05T19:53:46 < karlp> just saying who else can use designators to ehlp them find their way
2018-10-05T19:54:22 < zyp> I'm not saying they are not useful, just saying I don't find it worthwhile to put time into making them look good
2018-10-05T19:55:24 < zyp> also, for rework instructions like «Replace R137», I'd rather want an illustration of where that resistor is, rather than having to search around on the board for where the silk says R137
2018-10-05T19:56:01 < aandrew> zyp: that's what back annotation is for. :-) but yeah all valid points
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2018-10-05T19:56:41 < zyp> and I just think boards look cleaner without a lot of mess on the silk, I prefer just marking stuff that's actually useful to a user, like connectors and leds
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2018-10-05T20:01:20 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/X0LvB.png <- this is what I consider enough silk markings :p
2018-10-05T20:02:07 < englishman> no kawaii art under the chip?
2018-10-05T20:02:19 < englishman> no tagconnect?
2018-10-05T20:02:19 < kakimir> superbia: I don't have time now
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2018-10-05T20:02:25 < kakimir> sry
2018-10-05T20:02:26 < englishman> that clearly isnt your design
2018-10-05T20:02:40 < kakimir> look from jpa logs
2018-10-05T20:02:51 < zyp> englishman, design is mine, but not for my own use :)
2018-10-05T20:03:03 < kakimir> bbl>
2018-10-05T20:03:19 < englishman> :)
2018-10-05T20:05:14 < englishman> someone made an AvE ascii and it's pretty good
2018-10-05T20:08:24 < zyp> englishman, that board is not a high volume design anyway, making them buy a tag-connect cable wouldn't have made that much sense
2018-10-05T20:08:43 < aandrew> englishman: yeah I saw it hte other day
2018-10-05T20:08:51 < zyp> and there's no space savings that could be had either, board is already as small as it can be dictated by connectors on bottom side
2018-10-05T20:09:05 < jadew> zyp, you have to learn to ghetto: http://79.115.59.210/stuff/20181002_161330.jpg
2018-10-05T20:09:17 < zyp> haha
2018-10-05T20:09:29 < englishman> tag-connect caused this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NkDbwfK4Us
2018-10-05T20:09:37 < aandrew> not to ghetto with those minicircuits attenuators in the background
2018-10-05T20:10:21 < zyp> so what does people have against tag-connect anyway? other than the price?
2018-10-05T20:10:35 < Thorn> btw why not use JST 1.5mm connectors for swd?
2018-10-05T20:10:38 < jadew> zyp, I have nothing against it, other than the price
2018-10-05T20:11:08 < Thorn> or even smaller
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2018-10-05T20:11:23 < Thorn> such as 1.25mm GH
2018-10-05T20:13:00 < zyp> Thorn, because the connector body still costs a couple of cents?
2018-10-05T20:13:32 < zyp> I mean
2018-10-05T20:13:43 < zyp> I agree that $50 for a tag-connect cable is pricy
2018-10-05T20:14:33 < zyp> but by now I've used that $50 cable on close to a thousand boards
2018-10-05T20:16:35 < karlp> selfdoxingzyp
2018-10-05T20:17:05 < zyp> karlp, not a big deal anymore, that company was dissolved last year
2018-10-05T20:19:21 < karlp> no biggie, just you hadn't ever (to my knowledge) done that before :)
2018-10-05T20:19:43 < karlp> shitty name, lockless inc has that wrapped up I thought
2018-10-05T20:20:21 < zyp> haha, true
2018-10-05T20:22:07 < zyp> I remember the founders meeting where it was decided on, a bunch of the people had been involved in starting another company years back, named «semaphore» or something like that, and then somebody joked «let's go with another synchronization mechanism»
2018-10-05T20:22:09 < Thorn> how do I buy pins for cable mounted connectors on lcsc
2018-10-05T20:22:30 < zyp> true story
2018-10-05T20:23:07 < Thorn> judging by rounding error connector prices they're not included but I can't see them in stock
2018-10-05T20:23:29 < emeb> one of my clients specified a basic 6-pin ST-Link style 0.1" header and didn't populate it. Then when programming they'd just shove the pins in, torque them to the side for a few seconds and blast code in.
2018-10-05T20:23:44 < englishman> the Arduino way
2018-10-05T20:23:52 < emeb> Zero cost.
2018-10-05T20:23:56 < Thorn> emeb: I've done that on 100 boards, don't want to repeat lol
2018-10-05T20:24:01 < Thorn> unreliable
2018-10-05T20:24:02 < englishman> adafruit had staggered pins so you didn't even have to crank them
2018-10-05T20:24:28 < karlp> staggered's ncie for that, but you can actually get them too tight :)
2018-10-05T20:25:20 < emeb> Thorn: they had minimum-wage flunkies doing the assy and programming. 
2018-10-05T20:25:31 < emeb> didn't care how tedious it was. :P
2018-10-05T20:25:36 < zyp> emeb, I did that too on my last AVR project
2018-10-05T20:25:47 < jadew> the best & cheapest way is to have an edge connector, but that's not always an available option (depending on your component placement)
2018-10-05T20:26:02 < karlp> hrm, usb power meter tester thing doesn't provide data over usb, it's _only_ straight through.
2018-10-05T20:26:12 < karlp> cheaper than a HS hub interally I guess.
2018-10-05T20:26:40 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/9B678.jpg <- the row of 6 holes under the microsd socket has the AVR ISP signals
2018-10-05T20:26:57 < zyp> I even made a pogo pin adapter that attaches to it from the bottom
2018-10-05T20:27:02 < emeb> nice
2018-10-05T20:28:07 < jadew> magazine cover photo
2018-10-05T20:28:35 < emeb> what's that board do?
2018-10-05T20:28:44 < aandrew> that's an odd looking antenna
2018-10-05T20:29:06 < zyp> IMU sensing with ANT comms
2018-10-05T20:29:18 < aandrew> looks like a standard "G" shape for 2.4GHz but short on space so you zigzagged it
2018-10-05T20:29:28 < zyp> this was my bachelor's project in uni
2018-10-05T20:29:29 < ds2> is there an ANT profile for IMU sensing?
2018-10-05T20:29:35 < zyp> nah, custom shit
2018-10-05T20:29:45 < ds2> what band of ANT did you use?
2018-10-05T20:29:59 < Thorn> are bluetooth keyboards bluetooth or BLE?
2018-10-05T20:30:03 < zyp> in what sense? isn't it all 2.4G?
2018-10-05T20:30:12 < ds2> IIRC, there is a 900MHz ANT
2018-10-05T20:30:24 < zyp> idk, this was 2.4
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2018-10-05T20:33:48 < karlp> bah, linux won't pair properly with this thing
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2018-10-05T20:43:59 < ds2> what did you do for the Ant? They have a 'peculiar' licensing scheme
2018-10-05T20:44:31 < ds2> on the nordic HW, there is a bunch of agreements needed before you can touch the code
2018-10-05T20:44:46 < ds2> at one point there were modules but...ANT seems to be solely a SW company now
2018-10-05T20:47:26 < zyp> yeah, this was when you bought hardware chips for it
2018-10-05T20:47:40 < zyp> IIRC we prototyped with AP1 and then used AP2 on that board
2018-10-05T20:47:52 < zyp> hmm, I probably still have the devkit in a box somewhere
2018-10-05T20:49:47 < jadew> https://youtu.be/1CwREOA9RSg?t=18
2018-10-05T20:50:38 < emeb> selling a DMM with bewbs. how original.
2018-10-05T20:50:56 < jadew> more like pimping his wife for clicks
2018-10-05T20:51:19 < emeb> even more ick
2018-10-05T20:52:46 < aandrew> hahahahahaha
2018-10-05T20:53:03 < aandrew> I don't know about you but staring at a nice set of tits has never made me want to buy lab hardware
2018-10-05T20:53:24 < aandrew> it's not like buying anything from them will let me see more of the tits
2018-10-05T20:56:06 < jadew> they should first advertise them to women
2018-10-05T20:56:22 < jadew> cars are associated with hot women because women like money and cars can be expensive
2018-10-05T20:56:41 < jadew> I think the first order of business should be to make women aware that lab equipment can also be expensive :P
2018-10-05T20:57:28 < jadew> then, once everyone knows women will be more likely to date you, if you have a cool DMM, these sort of ads would start working on men
2018-10-05T20:57:45 < aandrew> lol
2018-10-05T20:58:12 < aandrew> every single piece of lab equipment I own, with the exception of the microscope and shitty DSO has been used/surplus
2018-10-05T20:58:58 < jadew> vintage gear is even hotter
2018-10-05T20:58:59 < aandrew> I do have to buy a better lab power supply though, CC/CV with the ability to regulate CC at a dozen amps or so
2018-10-05T20:59:33 < jadew> aandrew, maybe one with multiple channels so you can tie them in parallel?
2018-10-05T21:05:11 < aandrew> as long as the regulation is tight it won't matter, but I can't have the output voltage spiking when the load is removed
2018-10-05T21:13:26 < jadew> aandrew, what power supply do you have that does that?
2018-10-05T21:14:02 < jadew> once you take them out of CC mode, the voltage regulation should take effect and work like usual 
2018-10-05T21:14:07 < jadew> (ramp up cleanly)
2018-10-05T21:14:08 < Thorn> ##musics32 https://www.youtube.com/user/SpaceAmbient
2018-10-05T21:15:09 < kakimir> space synth
2018-10-05T21:17:00 < jadew> depends on how the regulation is done tho, if CC and CV are separate, then the CV part will try to get as high as possible (so it will be fully ON) and when it gets out of CC it might start with a spike because of it
2018-10-05T21:17:15 < jadew> but I've seen even cheap supplies that handle that case decently
2018-10-05T21:17:54 < jadew> (very small spike)
2018-10-05T21:21:16 < englishman> wanna come back to my place and check out my test equipment?
2018-10-05T21:21:36 < englishman> il show you my rack if you show me yours
2018-10-05T21:21:39 < invzim> preeety happy with my DP831 supply
2018-10-05T21:22:03 < englishman> hmm
2018-10-05T21:22:05 < englishman> i have dp832
2018-10-05T21:22:08 < englishman> what si the difference?
2018-10-05T21:22:12 < englishman> yes its a great supply
2018-10-05T21:22:18 < invzim> moar amps on channel 1 and negative on channel 3
2018-10-05T21:22:27 < englishman> ah yeah just slightly different
2018-10-05T21:22:31 < englishman> its haxable afaik
2018-10-05T21:22:51 < invzim> yup, I installed all the "options" - don't think I use any of them
2018-10-05T21:23:19 < englishman> oh neat so you can go 60V total
2018-10-05T21:23:25 < aandrew> yeah $500 for a power supply ain't happenning
2018-10-05T21:23:35 < aandrew> that is a nice looking supply though
2018-10-05T21:23:37 < englishman> cheap ass canuck
2018-10-05T21:24:31 < ds2> #@$@#$@#$ $500? salvaged wallwart + 78xx 
2018-10-05T21:24:44 < englishman> totally the same thing
2018-10-05T21:24:58 < aandrew> hahaha
2018-10-05T21:26:03 < englishman> i guess i can get 60V too just have to add my own jumper
2018-10-05T21:26:17 < jadew> the 381 can do it internally?
2018-10-05T21:27:01 < englishman> well the +30 and -30 supplies have a common terminal
2018-10-05T21:28:04 < jadew> yeah, but can the supply do it internally?
2018-10-05T21:28:17 < englishman> it is internal, they share a common terminal
2018-10-05T21:28:27 < jadew> ah, so it's not programmable
2018-10-05T21:28:40 < jadew> I thought you can tell it, I want you to connect channel 1 - to channel 2 +
2018-10-05T21:28:45 < jadew> or channel 1 - to channel 2 -
2018-10-05T21:29:15 < invzim> how often do you need >30V?
2018-10-05T21:29:18 < jadew> if it's always connected... not sure I like that
2018-10-05T21:29:42 < jadew> invzim, rarely, but when you need it, it sucks not to have it easily available
2018-10-05T21:29:57 < englishman> havent needed it so far, just reading about syncing channels now
2018-10-05T21:30:00 < englishman> neato
2018-10-05T21:30:27 < jadew> englishman, syncing as in tracking?
2018-10-05T21:31:13 < englishman> yes
2018-10-05T21:39:12 < englishman> custom splash screen
2018-10-05T21:39:22 < englishman> why didnt i rtfm years ago
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2018-10-05T22:10:16 < englishman> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEaWh73gB_g
2018-10-05T22:13:36 < Steffanx> better make the guy stop talking
2018-10-05T22:13:38 < Steffanx> he runes it
2018-10-05T22:13:39 < Steffanx> ruines
2018-10-05T22:27:58 < emeb> So - I'm seeing more & more references to QSPI SRAM parts lately. Trouble is that they seem to only be made by unknown Chinese mfgs and aren't available in normal distribution channels.
2018-10-05T22:28:16 < emeb> Anyone seen such parts available to mere mortals in the west?
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2018-10-05T22:41:09 < jpa-> emeb: well there is stuff like   https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/fujitsu-electronics-america-inc/MB85RQ4MLPF-G-BCERE1/865-1277-1-ND/6802283
2018-10-05T22:41:14 < jpa-> though that is FRAM
2018-10-05T22:42:11 < emeb> jpa-: right - lower density, higher cost, and non-volatile is not needed.
2018-10-05T22:42:26 < emeb> stuff I'm seeing is like 512MB
2018-10-05T22:42:38 < jpa-> uh, 512MB SRAM? not happening
2018-10-05T22:42:44 < emeb> it's not SRAM
2018-10-05T22:42:46 < emeb> it's PSRAM
2018-10-05T22:42:53 < jpa-> so DRAM, ok
2018-10-05T22:42:54 < emeb> ie - DRAM w/ internal refresh
2018-10-05T22:43:42 < emeb> but that 512M may be a misteak
2018-10-05T22:44:12 < emeb> even w/ DRAM that'd be a big chunk for a single chip in an 8-pin TSSOP
2018-10-05T22:45:41 < Ultrasauce> magical 3d hologram ram when
2018-10-05T22:46:52 < englishman> 512Mb maybe
2018-10-05T22:47:02 < emeb> ya
2018-10-05T22:47:39 < englishman> emeb whats a good artix-7 board to get refreshed in vhdl
2018-10-05T22:47:44 < englishman> i havent touched fpga since skool
2018-10-05T22:47:54 < englishman> https://store.digilentinc.com/basys-3-artix-7-fpga-trainer-board-recommended-for-introductory-users/
2018-10-05T22:47:56 < englishman> is this ok
2018-10-05T22:48:04 < emeb> englishman: I've had good luck w/ Digilent over the years
2018-10-05T22:48:21 < englishman> yeah we used digilent crap in skool for fpga and 68k
2018-10-05T22:48:49 < emeb> this is even cheaper https://store.digilentinc.com/arty-a7-artix-7-fpga-development-board-for-makers-and-hobbyists/
2018-10-05T22:49:19 < emeb> not as many switches and LEDs on it, but those are generally not so useful for "real" stuff.
2018-10-05T22:49:31 < chipant> getting an issue in regarding to UART1 and SPI1 of STM32F0... Though signals are not analyzed using any instruments but I see SPI1 not working when UART1 is initialized as well...
2018-10-05T22:49:37 < englishman> there's arduino nano sized ones too, with the same fpga
2018-10-05T22:49:56 < emeb> englishman: yes, but...
2018-10-05T22:50:39 < englishman> the white one looks good, with the 35T, added to cart
2018-10-05T22:50:39 < emeb> the ~$100 boards have the USB->JTAG + serial port interfaces already on-board 
2018-10-05T22:50:53 < emeb> so they are a lot easier to get going on.
2018-10-05T22:51:17 < englishman> what kind of debugging is on the small ones? there's an ftdi, is it for flashing to bitstream only?
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2018-10-05T22:51:43 < emeb> englishman: generally the small boards just have JTAG pins
2018-10-05T22:52:16 < emeb> you supply the jtag pod
2018-10-05T22:52:51 < englishman> hmm in the white one it isnt listed explicitly
2018-10-05T22:54:13 < englishman> ok bit clearer in the datasheet
2018-10-05T22:54:17 < englishman> anyway il get the white one, thanks
2018-10-05T22:55:17 < englishman> tho it does look like the small ones have jtag onboard
2018-10-05T22:57:05 < Steffanx> isnt altera/intel the way to go? 
2018-10-05T22:57:35 < emeb> eh
2018-10-05T22:57:41 < emeb> about the same
2018-10-05T22:58:28 < emeb> englishman: the arty-a7 board is the same one that the ARM reference design is targeted at, so you'll have less customization if you want to try that.
2018-10-05T22:58:40 < englishman> nice
2018-10-05T22:58:57 < englishman> i plan on starting with blinky tho
2018-10-05T22:59:05 < emeb> wise
2018-10-05T22:59:09 < englishman> until i remember what := means
2018-10-05T22:59:28 < emeb> a VHDL guy
2018-10-05T22:59:49 < englishman> it's what was taught in skool
2018-10-05T23:00:01 < Steffanx> and i thought it was only verilog on that side of the ocean
2018-10-05T23:00:51 < emeb> choice of language is pretty random. In the US you'll find that Verilog is most common in ASIC design while VHDL is more common in FPGA and Gov't contracts.
2018-10-05T23:01:39 < emeb> In Europe I understand that VHDL is generally more popular. Kinda odd given that VHDL is a product of the US Defense industry.
2018-10-05T23:02:50 < emeb> but a lot of those dividing lines have blurred in the last 10-20 years. It's getting hard to predict who'll use what, and since the tools are all agnostic it doesn't matter much.
2018-10-05T23:02:52 < kakimir> first snow today
2018-10-05T23:03:13 < emeb> Take the lynxes out for a walk
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2018-10-05T23:50:21 < aandrew> Found another tag-connect failure: https://reddit.app.link/yiNGrtYbMQ
2018-10-05T23:50:47 < zyp> :)
2018-10-05T23:51:11 < aandrew> VHDL is life
2018-10-05T23:57:27 < emeb> there was someone here in the past who was working on a general-purpose graphics lib - anyone remember who that was?
--- Day changed Sat Oct 06 2018
2018-10-06T00:00:22 < emeb> might have been uGFX but that looks more pro than I remember.
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2018-10-06T00:04:41 < ds2> jpa-: how big is that FRAM?
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2018-10-06T00:08:45 < emeb> 4Mb
2018-10-06T00:09:27 < ds2> that's small
2018-10-06T00:09:36 < emeb> yes
2018-10-06T00:09:45 < ds2> isn't FRAM an acceptable subst for SRAM?
2018-10-06T00:09:50 < ds2> other then $$$ reasons
2018-10-06T00:10:04 < emeb> Sure
2018-10-06T00:10:21 < emeb> but I'm looking for something w/ much more storage
2018-10-06T00:10:47 < emeb> IIRC the QSPI PSRAM parts that I've seen were 512Mb
2018-10-06T00:34:36 < ds2> who still makes PSRAM parts besides Micron?
2018-10-06T00:36:47 < emeb> Lots of no-name chinese outfits have these kind of parts but they don't sell them thru normal distributors.
2018-10-06T00:37:46 < emeb> answer to my earlier question - uGFX is the lib and Tectu is the person behind it. Haven't seen Tectu here for a long while.
2018-10-06T00:38:15 < ds2> for practical purposes, those chinese outfits don't exists
2018-10-06T00:38:38 < emeb> ds2: that's probably a good way to think about it
2018-10-06T00:38:57 < emeb> even if you can get the parts, the supply is unreliable.
2018-10-06T00:39:00 < ds2> memory is a PITA
2018-10-06T00:39:47 < emeb> and yet, some of my clients have competitors who are releasing products that use these kind of parts
2018-10-06T00:39:57 < ds2> hehehe
2018-10-06T00:40:01 < emeb> so the question arises - how to compete with these products.
2018-10-06T00:40:08 < ds2> why not just source parts from a recycling place and desolder htem ;)
2018-10-06T00:43:43 < Steffanx> emeb, tectu is around. known as tctw or tct or somtehing tct
2018-10-06T00:44:57 < Steffanx> He's busy running his business
2018-10-06T00:45:59 < emeb> Steffanx: ty
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2018-10-06T01:43:42 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/ZCpSPBDw
2018-10-06T01:46:32 < jadew> was it London where that sex doll brothel opened?
2018-10-06T01:46:47 < jadew> and feminists complained that the customers are not abusing real women?
2018-10-06T01:47:56 -!- BrainDamage_ [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-06T01:49:21 < jadew> I don't know why youtube keeps suggesting this channel to me: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu3m8kI80rCTg9UAqO0_0bA
2018-10-06T01:49:54 < jadew> it's only 2 months old, has just a couple of videos and tons of views (for such a young channel)
2018-10-06T01:50:39 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-06T01:50:41 -!- BrainDamage_ is now known as BrainDamage
2018-10-06T01:51:00 < jadew> also, for some reason, I feel complled to watch all those videos - there's something about that chick
2018-10-06T01:51:18 < jadew> and somehow youtube has figured that I digg that something
2018-10-06T01:51:36 < BrainDamage> why do you even care about machine suggestions
2018-10-06T01:52:02 < jadew> because they work
2018-10-06T01:52:15 < jadew> they're extremely efficient, but I don't understand how
2018-10-06T01:52:21 < BrainDamage> so then work, exept when they don't
2018-10-06T01:53:11 < Simon--> definitely feels like they are doing some sort of optimization based on what other people click on
2018-10-06T01:53:14 < Simon--> which makes sense
2018-10-06T01:53:20 < Simon--> but everything is trending towards breasts
2018-10-06T01:53:26 < Simon--> so..
2018-10-06T01:53:40 < jadew> Simon--, so google knows what I like...
2018-10-06T01:53:52 < BrainDamage> remember you (like every human) has strong positive bias
2018-10-06T01:54:02 < BrainDamage> you tend to remember positive things, not negative
2018-10-06T01:54:11 < BrainDamage> so you won't remember as much when it fails
2018-10-06T01:54:17 < jadew> ah, so you think I dismiss the ones I don't enjoy?
2018-10-06T01:54:22 < BrainDamage> yes
2018-10-06T01:54:24 < jadew> yeah, it's possible
2018-10-06T01:54:51 < BrainDamage> mediums make a living out of this
2018-10-06T01:55:13 < BrainDamage> they throw generic enough statement, and you dismiss those that don't apply to yourself
2018-10-06T01:57:21 < Simon--> it is frustrating when you are actually searching for something weird/rare and you get "mainlined" you into what they thought you meant because it's more popular
2018-10-06T01:58:30 < Simon--> that's not so much youtube, though.. youtube is more "you once searched how to fix your clothes dryer so you definitely like clothes dryer videos"
2018-10-06T01:59:55 < emeb> TIL - youtube's "Not Interested" flag
2018-10-06T02:00:05 < emeb> makes all those dryer videos go away.
2018-10-06T02:00:15 < jadew> yeah, that's a good feature
2018-10-06T02:00:45 < jadew> at one point I was being bombarded by videos of some random in NY, who was flying drones
2018-10-06T02:01:00 < jadew> and had some sort of shop, don't even know wth he was selling/doing
2018-10-06T02:01:11 < BrainDamage> try to watch a few conspiracy videos, then check your suggestion list
2018-10-06T02:02:31 < BrainDamage> conspiracy theorists have huge bias in the kind of stuff they view, so once the algos peg you as a potential viewer, they'll try to shove you all kind of insane shit
2018-10-06T02:02:48 < BrainDamage> even if you watched few for the comedic effect
2018-10-06T02:03:29 < BrainDamage> I didn't click because it's likely garbage like 90% of the stuff you post here
2018-10-06T02:03:39 < jadew> crt, you get suggestions for unconscious bias training
2018-10-06T02:04:03 < jadew> BrainDamage, it's about electronics
2018-10-06T02:04:32 < BrainDamage> I'm ok taking the risk, I'll only fail 1/10 times
2018-10-06T02:05:12 < BrainDamage> you still post plenty of crap, just not as frequent
2018-10-06T02:05:17 < BrainDamage> for him it's more like 1/30
2018-10-06T02:05:19 < jadew> was that filmed in the 80s?
2018-10-06T02:08:06 < BrainDamage> yeah, so we got a moron that puts a current multimeter in parallel with a circuit to measure a current, and he didn't mention about the multimeter's internal resistance compared to the circuit so no idea if the measurement is accurate due to partition
2018-10-06T02:11:59 < BrainDamage> that's a pretty mild sin compared to american sellers writing "uuF" on capacitors for pF, or "MF" for uF
2018-10-06T02:13:07 < jadew> if only that was the only weird convention in the US
2018-10-06T02:13:45 < jadew> lol
2018-10-06T02:13:50 < jadew> yeah
2018-10-06T02:14:00 < jadew> mm/dd/yyyy
2018-10-06T02:15:07 < jadew> week starting with Sunday
2018-10-06T02:16:02 < oz4ga> their way of house numbering is also odd
2018-10-06T02:18:04 < Laurenceb124> >that chick
2018-10-06T02:18:19 < Laurenceb124>  "why does this channel have gorillions of views?"
2018-10-06T02:19:01 < jadew> Laurenceb124, u digg?
2018-10-06T02:19:19 < Laurenceb124> digg is even moar lame than reddit
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2018-10-06T02:20:36 < jadew> the year is almost over and I can't remember any good movies from this year
2018-10-06T02:20:50 < englishman> dicknplacing 1206
2018-10-06T02:20:53 < englishman> so boring
2018-10-06T02:21:18 < jadew> you can do those with a soldering gun
2018-10-06T02:22:31 < jadew> man... there are so many electronics channels
2018-10-06T02:23:08 < jadew> yet nobody has thought about doing SMD work with a soldering gun
2018-10-06T02:23:42 < jadew> I think I found my niche
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2018-10-06T02:24:54 < BrainDamage> I've seen SMD done with a paint stripper gun
2018-10-06T02:25:29 < jadew> if you're careful should work
2018-10-06T02:26:14 < BrainDamage> the question is not how, but why
2018-10-06T02:26:29 < jadew> for fun or lack of tools
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2018-10-06T02:28:00 < jadew> when I was a kid I was soldering with a knitting needle
2018-10-06T02:28:19 < BrainDamage> and you walked uphill both ways to go to school
2018-10-06T02:28:34 < BrainDamage> with a 1m snow cover
2018-10-06T02:28:35 < jadew> would heat it on the stove until it was red hot
2018-10-06T02:28:43 < jadew> I'm serious
2018-10-06T02:28:51 < jadew> not my best solder joints
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2018-10-06T02:29:01 < BrainDamage> that was you being dumb, I was using a soldering iron even when I was 5
2018-10-06T02:29:17 < BrainDamage> granted, it was a shit one that was going black every time, but it was a soldering iron
2018-10-06T02:29:22 < jadew> my soldering iron was broken at the time
2018-10-06T02:29:45 < BrainDamage> I've also got countless burns from it
2018-10-06T02:29:45 < jadew> had to use the knitting needle for at least half a year
2018-10-06T02:30:23 < englishman> I don't think you want to do 50k 1206 with a soldering gun
2018-10-06T02:30:48 < jadew> me too, I used to be very heat tollerant because of that
2018-10-06T02:34:18 < jadew> hmm, I remember I then switched to soldering irons, but they had a really big chiesel tip and it would get erroded over time, forming a little well
2018-10-06T02:35:24 < jadew> I had to always shake the solder off and once I got that solder ball on my chest (I was shirtless)
2018-10-06T02:36:20 < jadew> I panicked and then I panicked more as it was rolling down towards my pants
2018-10-06T02:37:03 < jadew> didn't burn me
2018-10-06T02:37:24 < BrainDamage> pfff, you should've gone to an high school of delinquents
2018-10-06T02:38:04 < BrainDamage> we often made pranks on eachother by attaching a large solder blob to the backside of a coin, throw it on the ground, and tell the neighbour that he dropped a coint
2018-10-06T02:38:06 < BrainDamage> -t
2018-10-06T02:38:14 < BrainDamage> then watch the reaction as he picked it up
2018-10-06T02:38:24 < jadew> lol
2018-10-06T02:42:33 < emeb> high school electronics shop. good times.
2018-10-06T02:42:58 < emeb> blowing up capacitors, burning rude messages in the desk w/ soldering iron. 
2018-10-06T02:43:39 < jadew> I had a pyrography pen
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2018-10-06T02:43:48 < BrainDamage> 5th year, you could ask people to search "5MHz resistors" in the rack, and they'd spend 10 min before getting back to you saying they didn't find the label
2018-10-06T02:44:01 < jadew> haha
2018-10-06T02:44:04 < BrainDamage> then send them back again for 5 min more
2018-10-06T02:44:14 < emeb> Danger 50,000 ohms!
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2018-10-06T02:45:13 < emeb> https://twitter.com/VayroGryphon/status/1048327476626292736
2018-10-06T02:46:25 < jadew> it's for printing self destructing messages
2018-10-06T02:46:38 < emeb> achievement unlocked
2018-10-06T02:48:11 < BrainDamage> I've also personally installed unreal tournament in every pc of the informatics labs
2018-10-06T02:48:27 < BrainDamage> so many hours wasted on it
2018-10-06T02:48:34 < emeb> no doubt to the delight of the lab admin
2018-10-06T02:48:45 < BrainDamage> correct, he was playing with us
2018-10-06T02:48:54 < emeb> </irony>
2018-10-06T02:49:08 < BrainDamage> mine wasn't
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2018-10-06T03:12:43 < Laurenceb124> the game
2018-10-06T03:13:30 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/fSvGVFKm
2018-10-06T03:13:34 < Laurenceb124> mfw
2018-10-06T03:23:19 < Laurenceb124> hi emdrive head https://postimg.cc/9w4xhnkc
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2018-10-06T03:40:14 < upgrdman> O_O  https://www.reddit.com/r/popping/comments/824i9h/waterfall_out_of_a_cows_abscess_the_relief_had_to/
2018-10-06T03:48:05 < sync> that happens quite often with them upgrdman 
2018-10-06T03:48:30 < upgrdman> srsly? that extensively?\
2018-10-06T03:52:19 < sync> not to that degree but almost
2018-10-06T04:11:32 < upgrdman> china robots... they cloned BigDog   https://gfycat.com/PertinentShorttermBlobfish
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2018-10-06T05:35:54 < Thorn> lol Altium Disaster
2018-10-06T05:36:29 < Thorn> if you have the origin at the top left corner of the pcb you can't place overhanging connectors on the left or bottom edge of the pcb
2018-10-06T05:36:41 < Thorn> it apparently hates negative coordinates
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2018-10-06T07:16:28 < englishman> Thorn: https://www.worksonmymachine.pro/
2018-10-06T07:16:40 < englishman> have a couple projects with origin in the center
2018-10-06T07:16:44 < englishman> works fine
2018-10-06T07:18:34 < Thorn> *bottom left corner
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2018-10-06T08:50:16 < englishman> i dont know how that would even matter
2018-10-06T08:50:41 < englishman> unless you mean you placed the origin at the absolute bottom left of the design space
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2018-10-06T11:16:18 < Steffanx> Who?
2018-10-06T11:19:24 < Sadale> obviously it's me :3
2018-10-06T11:19:30 < Sadale> kidding xD
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2018-10-06T11:26:32 < Sadale> isn't that a cat?
2018-10-06T11:34:55 < Sadale> I see. Perhaps it looks less like a cat in real life. :3
2018-10-06T11:35:01 < Sadale> It does look like a cat in the pic, tho
2018-10-06T11:45:02 < Steffanx> Lol, pumped by stvn
2018-10-06T11:50:19 < zyp> cute dog
2018-10-06T11:53:16 < Steffanx> Did zyp pick a house cat yet?
2018-10-06T11:53:27 < Steffanx> New house needs a cat
2018-10-06T11:55:16 < zyp> don't really want the responsibility of keeping a pet
2018-10-06T11:55:23 < Steffanx> Like this: https://www.zypcoatings.com/corporate/ the zyp cat
2018-10-06T11:55:39 < zyp> haha, nice
2018-10-06T11:59:00 < Steffanx> Lol, i just googled "zyp cat" and hoped for a nice cat to show up
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2018-10-06T12:11:01 < Steffanx> There are quite a few crt cats too. Did you know?
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2018-10-06T13:15:20 < Steffanx> Here enough cats for the coming year:
2018-10-06T13:15:22 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/gallery/4QUMJVc
2018-10-06T13:16:26 < Sadale> alright. Time to figure out how does openocd work :3
2018-10-06T13:17:34 < Sadale> Let me try again. Time to figure out how to work with openocd with command line.
2018-10-06T13:22:12 < Thorn> why aren't TI appnotes showing any bridge connections for RTDs
2018-10-06T13:34:09 < antto> anyone knows what voltage i'll get from a NCP1117 3.3V fixed regulator if i put a 33ohm resistor in series with its ground?
2018-10-06T13:35:42 < antto> ..or if there's a rough formula for that
2018-10-06T13:35:54 < antto> there are formulas for the adjustable versions in the datasheet
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2018-10-06T16:30:18 < zyp> antto, if you want to adjust it, get an adjustable one
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2018-10-06T16:42:53 < Laurenceb124> Hi its Alex Jones at InfoWars dot com and I'm here to refute these reeeeee-dickulous accusations that I like girls with penises this big!
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2018-10-06T17:33:07 < antto> too late for that. and the circuit is different then
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2018-10-06T18:04:10 < englishman> antto: do you mean using ldo as a current source, or something else
2018-10-06T18:04:30 < antto> nah, just voltage regulator
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2018-10-06T18:06:52 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/nCVf833D
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2018-10-06T18:13:15 < Sadale> great. I managed to figure out how to work with the command line interface of openocd.
2018-10-06T18:13:18 < Laurenceb124> tfw https://postimg.cc/hf2mV8pB
2018-10-06T18:13:21 < Sadale> Next step: Integrate it with DDD.
2018-10-06T18:15:07 < Sadale> who's this guy?
2018-10-06T18:18:53 < Laurenceb124> >being this new
2018-10-06T18:23:06 < Laurenceb124> an extreme centrist
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2018-10-06T18:38:46 < mawk> he looks like a rapist
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2018-10-06T18:41:49 < Steffanx> You think that because he looks like you mawk?
2018-10-06T18:44:12 < mawk> :(
2018-10-06T18:44:23 < mawk> I don't even have a beard
2018-10-06T18:46:03 < mawk> will my insurance agree to pay if I burn down my house because of some device I made ?
2018-10-06T18:46:23 < mawk> or I need to have a license or something even if I followed every security step
2018-10-06T18:52:42 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-06T18:52:52 < mawk> but you'll always have children smashing hammers on lipo batteries or something
2018-10-06T18:53:11 < mawk> no fire extinguisher
2018-10-06T18:53:19 < mawk> I've never seen a house with one here, actually
2018-10-06T18:53:22 < mawk> lol
2018-10-06T18:54:11 < englishman> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Great_Fire_of_Paris
2018-10-06T18:54:21 < Steffanx> lol
2018-10-06T18:54:27 < mawk> lol
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2018-10-06T18:55:38 < mawk> that was in Nice
2018-10-06T18:55:47 < mawk> but the same with cars happens all of the time now
2018-10-06T18:55:50 < englishman> the great splattening
2018-10-06T18:56:07 < mawk> it's like terrorists are very stupid, and one day one of them gets a good killing idea and every other follows suit
2018-10-06T18:56:16 < mawk> we had a first truck attack then cars started to do it on a regular basis
2018-10-06T18:56:21 < mawk> same with knife, same with guns
2018-10-06T18:56:50 < englishman> ban assault trucks
2018-10-06T18:56:54 < mawk> lol
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2018-10-06T18:58:07 < Steffanx> 0. Duh.
2018-10-06T18:58:30 < Steffanx> No,  his imaginary kids.
2018-10-06T18:58:59 < Steffanx> with an imaginary hammer.
2018-10-06T19:00:39 < mawk> I don't have kids yet
2018-10-06T19:00:54 < mawk> but my gf is 35 now, I should do it quickly
2018-10-06T19:01:01 < mawk> maybe she can freeze her eggs, transhumanism style
2018-10-06T19:01:40 < mawk> something like a half of terrorists from recent events were already european
2018-10-06T19:01:42 < mawk> mostly belgian tho
2018-10-06T19:01:48 < mawk> so just block belgian citizens and no more attacks
2018-10-06T19:02:18 < mawk> but it's true they got to and back from Syria using migrants paths
2018-10-06T19:02:33 < mawk> it'd just be a bit harder to get training and guns, but still they are european so not suspicious
2018-10-06T19:02:50 < mawk> and you get guns everywhere there is drug trafficking here, so just everywhere near a big city
2018-10-06T19:03:06 < mawk> no ban on guns will do, no closed frontier will do
2018-10-06T19:03:24 < mawk> maybe a racist regime with concentration camps will work, but I bet the people isn't ready for that
2018-10-06T19:03:29 < englishman> if anyone wants to see the AvE ascii i will play it in ##ascii
2018-10-06T19:03:44 < Steffanx> on efnet?
2018-10-06T19:03:46 < englishman> no
2018-10-06T19:03:47 < englishman> here
2018-10-06T19:04:00 < Steffanx> Or is this a cry for ReadError. Because he likes the art.
2018-10-06T19:04:06 < englishman> no he's gone
2018-10-06T19:04:11 < Steffanx> gone gone. or just gone.
2018-10-06T19:04:12 < englishman> didnt reply to email either
2018-10-06T19:04:14 < Steffanx> hm
2018-10-06T19:04:22 < Steffanx> That would be sad
2018-10-06T19:05:06 < Steffanx> Cant be efnets first kill.
2018-10-06T19:06:58 < mawk> what about the last squares englishman 
2018-10-06T19:07:06 < mawk> you have to start over now
2018-10-06T19:07:11 < englishman> what happened
2018-10-06T19:07:14 < englishman> its all there for me
2018-10-06T19:07:24 < englishman> oh
2018-10-06T19:07:26 < englishman> bottom right
2018-10-06T19:07:27 < englishman> rip
2018-10-06T19:07:47 < mawk> https://pix.watch/1Ges-J/Edf_um.png
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2018-10-06T19:07:50 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-06T19:07:59 < Thorn> do you really need a film cap between diff adc inputs for filtering? the TI doc says C0G or film
2018-10-06T19:08:08 < englishman> hehe french irc
2018-10-06T19:08:34 < mawk> most of my fellow devs have a full english interface using i3 or something
2018-10-06T19:08:37 < mawk> I like my french kde
2018-10-06T19:08:48 < mawk> but I had an (english) weechat before, lost in the crash of my last server
2018-10-06T19:08:55 < mawk> and didn't have the motivation to start over
2018-10-06T19:09:18 < englishman> yeah all my weeshit is super backed up
2018-10-06T19:09:23 < englishman> so i dont have to go thru that
2018-10-06T19:09:53 < mawk> I didn't do backups because I thought being at a reputable host was enough security, using RAID mirroring and stuff
2018-10-06T19:10:12 < englishman> rip
2018-10-06T19:10:15 < mawk> but the whole motherboard fried, and they can't swap out the disks to give the data back because they'd have to power down the entire rack of customers
2018-10-06T19:10:30 < mawk> so I'll have to wait until they go bankrupt or something
2018-10-06T19:11:17 < mawk> it's the same host that kicked me out of my server a second after a cybercrime order to delete some pictures, order which left me 24h to do it
2018-10-06T19:12:01 < englishman> thought crimes or actual crimes
2018-10-06T19:12:29 < mawk> actual crimes
2018-10-06T19:12:41 < mawk> I run a free image host and all kind of people upload all kind of stuff
2018-10-06T19:12:56 < mawk> once I got a request from the french DEA to identify some guy who sent pictures of his weed shop
2018-10-06T19:13:06 < mawk> at least that time they cooperated with me, asking nicely the info and stuff
2018-10-06T19:13:27 < mawk> but now this time it was a paedo guy who uploaded young girls to my host, and here the police didn't even start to try cooperating
2018-10-06T19:13:42 < mawk> just tried to get rid of the image instead of trying to identify the guy
2018-10-06T19:13:48 < mawk> I guess that's what a race for statistics provokes
2018-10-06T19:14:36 < mawk> I had to shut down two of my urls to the image host to get rid of the paedos
2018-10-06T19:14:47 < mawk> the .onion link and a clear web link
2018-10-06T19:14:59 < mawk> now I don't get donations anymore, I guess all the users were on these urls
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2018-10-06T19:16:12 < Steffanx> .onion ..
2018-10-06T19:16:49 < BrainDamage> it's because it makes you cry
2018-10-06T19:24:00 < Steffanx> Yea.
2018-10-06T19:25:30 < mawk> yeah .onion
2018-10-06T19:25:39 < mawk> onion, eschalot, scallion
2018-10-06T19:25:51 < mawk> they got creative for the tools related to Tor
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2018-10-06T19:49:17 < aandrew> so
2018-10-06T19:49:21 < aandrew> I got a pleasant surprise
2018-10-06T19:49:40 < aandrew> I'm sourcing LSI RAID controllers and 40Gbps infiniband shits for my blade server at home
2018-10-06T19:50:01 < aandrew> (Dell C6100) -- one node is ubuntu running softwar eraid/plex/etc and the ohter is ESXi for my work shit
2018-10-06T19:50:10 < aandrew> other two blades are just unplugged/unusued at this time
2018-10-06T19:50:31 < aandrew> anyway - I want the ESXi node completely diskless but GBE was just not fast enough hence the IB cards
2018-10-06T19:50:43 < aandrew> and software RAID6 is slow as dogshit hence the LSI cards
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2018-10-06T19:51:17 < aandrew> raid cards are about $50-200 on ebay, I get one with the right cables (blade servers are nasty for cable routing, just get the right cabling) for like $60
2018-10-06T19:51:47 < aandrew> and I also see an entire blade with raid card pulled from a working chassis for $50 so I buy that because it's cheaper than the card itself and now I have a backup blade
2018-10-06T19:52:17 < Steffanx> fancy :)
2018-10-06T19:52:19 < aandrew> I get it and as expected it's stripped, but I have a dead blade from when I bought the server so I move the RAM over and go to pull the CPUs but the new "stripped" blade had CPUs
2018-10-06T19:52:24 < aandrew> interesting, so I boot it
2018-10-06T19:52:43 < aandrew> it's got dual E5465 - 6 core 2MB L2 12MB L3
2018-10-06T19:52:46 < aandrew> total score
2018-10-06T19:53:02 < aandrew> was so excited I bought another one from the same guy hoping he also didn't strip it. :-)
2018-10-06T19:53:38 < zyp> C6100 is a 2U four blade chassis?
2018-10-06T19:53:51 < aandrew> my other blades are dual L5520 which are quad core, little lower power, smaller cache/slower
2018-10-06T19:53:53 < Sadale> ohh. Now I finally get what does the "monitor" prefix do in SW4STM32.
2018-10-06T19:53:54 < aandrew> yeah
2018-10-06T19:54:00 < zyp> cute
2018-10-06T19:54:01 < aandrew> 4xdual xeon
2018-10-06T19:54:18 < Sadale> The "monitor" prefix redirects the command to OpenOCD. In fact, it's a gdb command.
2018-10-06T19:55:01 < aandrew> got the orignal chassis for $250, got an entire bag (like 40 sticks) of 4GB DDR3 registered ECC for free
2018-10-06T19:55:12 < zyp> aandrew, how are the drives hooked up in a chassis like that?
2018-10-06T19:55:23 < aandrew> bought a special cable harness so I could route 6 drives to one blade and still keep hot plugging of the blades
2018-10-06T19:55:32 < zyp> SAS with some multimaster stuff?
2018-10-06T19:55:57 < aandrew> zyp: 12 3.5" SATA drives at the front all go to a midplane board, then the midplane board lets you route them up to 6 to a node without sacrificing hotplug
2018-10-06T19:56:05 < zyp> ah
2018-10-06T19:56:26 < Sadale> ddd is so useful :)
2018-10-06T19:56:29 < aandrew> so the drives all go to SAS connectors, then midplane breaks it out to individual blades, then the blades connect those SATA connectors to the actual blade motherboard
2018-10-06T19:56:51 < zyp> makes sense
2018-10-06T19:57:03 < zyp> shame you can't run all 12 to one blade
2018-10-06T19:57:13 < aandrew> you can, you just give up hotplug of the blades
2018-10-06T19:57:24 < zyp> how so?
2018-10-06T19:57:37 < zyp> routing through another blade?
2018-10-06T19:57:51 < aandrew> blade plugs in to backplane, backplane-to-midplane only takes up to 6 drives 
2018-10-06T19:58:06 < aandrew> so if you connect the midplane to the node directly you can't hotswap anymore
2018-10-06T19:58:19 < zyp> ah
2018-10-06T19:58:24 < aandrew> basically you skip the backplane connection for the drives (still use it ofr power) 
2018-10-06T19:58:39 < zyp> sounds annoying
2018-10-06T19:58:54 < aandrew> so the idea is to set up iscsi on ubuntu with the drives in RAID, then use 40Gb IB to connect to whatever
2018-10-06T19:59:16 < aandrew> the blades can boot from iscsi and esxi can use iscsi targets for datastores
2018-10-06T19:59:36 < aandrew> so the plan is to put the datastore on the RAID and boot everything off it
2018-10-06T19:59:50 < zyp> yeah, that's what I figured
2018-10-06T19:59:53 < aandrew> the ubuntu node running the raid actually boots off a USB 2.0 drive then mounts /usr off the array 
2018-10-06T20:00:20 < zyp> I were dicking around with shit like that some years ago, except with fiber channel instead of iscsi/infiniband
2018-10-06T20:00:32 < aandrew> right
2018-10-06T20:00:41 < aandrew> and I'd probably have gone FC if it weren't still too pricey
2018-10-06T20:00:53 < aandrew> basically I want all the nodes to grab data off a separate drive box
2018-10-06T20:01:06 < zyp> I got rid of it because the raid controller in the FC chassis could only do RAID5
2018-10-06T20:01:10 < aandrew> but I can't find a cheap chassis that is *jsut* drives and IB
2018-10-06T20:01:16 < aandrew> FC sure but I'm not spending for expensive drives
2018-10-06T20:01:46 < zyp> the one I had was like that, raid controller in chassis were SATA to FC
2018-10-06T20:02:06 < aandrew> right
2018-10-06T20:02:34 < aandrew> I think (hope!) the 9211 can do raid6, 2TB drives are at that danger zone where your chances of getting a read error while rebuilding are too hgih for my liking
2018-10-06T20:03:44 < zyp> yeah, I were running 6x1.5TB drives, and adding more drives meant that the array were getting larger than I were comfortable with running only RAID5 on
2018-10-06T20:04:23 < aandrew> yep I'm at 6x2
2018-10-06T20:04:54 < aandrew> I've got a spare drive on the shelf, a spare power supply (intel C6100 is dual PS), spare RAID card, spare IB card and soon spare blade
2018-10-06T20:05:05 < aandrew> I'm planning on running this hardware as long as possible
2018-10-06T20:05:40 < aandrew> hm, shit
2018-10-06T20:05:52 < aandrew> it looks like the RAID levels supported are only 0,1,10,5,50,JBOD
2018-10-06T20:06:02 < zyp> I ended up replacing the entire thing five years ago, bought a 16 drive bay norco chassis, new motherboard and shit and some LSI card, and set up a standalone storage server, instead of the whole FC network with a bunch of old shitty boxes
2018-10-06T20:06:44 < oz4ga> I dont' think a LSI9211 can do RAID6. RAID5 for sure. You can reflash it to IT mode and run ZFS instead
2018-10-06T20:06:49 < zyp> I ran xen for VMs on it for a while, but maintaining VMs is tedious, so I switched to docker last year
2018-10-06T20:07:37 < oz4ga> RAIDZ-2 is like RAID-6
2018-10-06T20:07:49 < zyp> yeah, that's similar to what I do now
2018-10-06T20:07:52 < aandrew> oz4ga: yeah I may need to do that
2018-10-06T20:08:12 < aandrew> everyone loves zfs, I've never even read about it
2018-10-06T20:08:20 < aandrew> I'm all software raid with LVM and xfs
2018-10-06T20:08:27 < zyp> I got a LSI 9201-16i acting as a plain HBA, then ZFS with raidz3 on a 16x3TB array
2018-10-06T20:08:28 < oz4ga> I just refalshed a IBM M1015 / LSI9220 to do that
2018-10-06T20:08:52 < oz4ga> for ZFS w. FreeBSD
2018-10-06T20:09:04 < zyp> when the array was new, I benchmarked it to something like 800MB/s both read and write, and figured that's plenty
2018-10-06T20:09:29 < oz4ga> yeah
2018-10-06T20:10:52 < zyp> 16x3TB is still kinda overkill five years after I bought it, but at the time I had a full 6x1.5TB array and was tired of it being full
2018-10-06T20:10:56 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/KTGMN
2018-10-06T20:11:28 < zyp> I'm not running freebsd though, zfs4linux works fine
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2018-10-06T20:12:44 < oz4ga> I'm in the BSD camp hence my choice, but yeas I'm told that the Linux port is also doing fine
2018-10-06T20:13:23 < zyp> I must say the redundancy of zfs works fine too
2018-10-06T20:14:01 < Steffanx> i never had a disk die in my freenas setup, so i cant tell.
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2018-10-06T20:14:40 < englishman> are there any stm32 devboards with ddr
2018-10-06T20:14:48 < aandrew> no
2018-10-06T20:14:59 < aandrew> stm32 doesn't support DDR to my knowledge, not even the H7?
2018-10-06T20:15:00 < englishman> theres no stm32 with ddr interface i guess
2018-10-06T20:15:02 < englishman> right
2018-10-06T20:15:06 < zyp> I originally built the array as a hybrid 1.5TB/3TB array, starting out triple-degraded to use three of the 3TB drives to hold the data from the old array when reusing the old drives in the new array
2018-10-06T20:15:25 < aandrew> yeah RM0433, search for ddr -> nada
2018-10-06T20:15:42 < zyp> so I probably did around ten resilver operations just to turn that into the current 16x3-array
2018-10-06T20:15:57 < aandrew> heh yeah it took a damn long time to go from RAID5->RAID6
2018-10-06T20:16:02 < zyp> and then I've had 11 drives die while being part of the array
2018-10-06T20:16:09 < oz4ga> zyp: oh the joy of waiting for a resilver. "will they survive" ;)
2018-10-06T20:16:23 < zyp> not a big concern on a raidz3
2018-10-06T20:17:06 < zyp> the 3TB drives I bought happened to be from that bad seagate batch which later was found to be terrible :p
2018-10-06T20:18:07 < zyp> later batches of the same model seems to be good though
2018-10-06T20:18:13 < aandrew> so how do you do zfs? do you define raid levels or do you just throw disks at it and say "I want to be able to survive two drive failures" and let it do the rest?
2018-10-06T20:18:37 < zyp> zfs is kinda like raid, lvm and a file system all rolled into one
2018-10-06T20:19:13 < aandrew> right
2018-10-06T20:19:15 < aandrew> I gathered that
2018-10-06T20:19:41 < aandrew> but do you set up the zpool as raid or do you just tell it there are x physical disks of size y and let it handle therest?
2018-10-06T20:20:13 < oz4ga> basicly yes
2018-10-06T20:20:26 < zyp> a zpool is like a lvm VG, and then when you add a group of drives to the zpool, you tell it how to array the drives
2018-10-06T20:20:38 < aandrew> ok
2018-10-06T20:21:33 < zyp> with 12 drives, you can have two arrays of 6 in a zpool, which would be pretty equivalent to a lvm VG with two PVs that's each an md-raid across six drives
2018-10-06T20:21:48 < aandrew> looks like raidz2 for me to have same as raid6
2018-10-06T20:22:03 < aandrew> hm
2018-10-06T20:22:09 < zyp> the largest disadvantage with zfs for casual use like this is that you can't reshape raid arrays later
2018-10-06T20:22:11 < oz4ga> but you got to be a little careful when you build a raidz. you can't extend it you can only stripe it with more disks
2018-10-06T20:22:22 < aandrew> why would you do that? that sounds like two six-drive raid0s with raid1 between the two raid0 arrays
2018-10-06T20:22:50 < zyp> you can add more arrays, but you can't extend the existing ones
2018-10-06T20:23:16 < zyp> you can replace all the drives of an array with larger drives though
2018-10-06T20:23:32 < aandrew> right, and at least in my current system I can't have more than 6 physical disks
2018-10-06T20:23:36 < zyp> this is the reason I originally built my array mixed with 1.5TB/3TB
2018-10-06T20:23:44 < aandrew> so upgrading them all to larger disks is the only sane solution
2018-10-06T20:24:35 < aandrew> so this is all done in software too then... there's no advantage of having an LSI RAID card in HBA mode since it's then just a SATA card (no raid)
2018-10-06T20:24:44 < aandrew> which is no different than the onboard SATA interfaces I already have
2018-10-06T20:24:47 < zyp> originally I planned on starting out with 8x3TB in raidz2 and growing it later, but it turned out that reusing the old drives and making a 16x1.5TB array where half the drives were actually 3TB was a more flexible option
2018-10-06T20:24:48 < oz4ga> bbl. got to visit my mom for evening coffey
2018-10-06T20:25:37 < zyp> and then I bought enough 3TB drives to upgrade the entire array a year later
2018-10-06T20:25:46 < aandrew> right
2018-10-06T20:26:15 < aandrew> so in theory I could start replacing these 2T drives with 6T drives but I wouldn't see the advantage of that until all 6 were replaced to 6T?
2018-10-06T20:26:19 < aandrew> then I'd suddenly have 3x the space?
2018-10-06T20:26:23 < zyp> correct
2018-10-06T20:26:52 < aandrew> hm
2018-10-06T20:27:46 < zyp> I'd say that in practice you only want to run one array, so getting the final number of drives in right away is beneficial
2018-10-06T20:28:14 < aandrew> right and in my case, already constrained :-)
2018-10-06T20:28:41 < aandrew> so it looks like I need to buy a 6T drive to copy all hte shit off, then create raidz2 then copy the shit back
2018-10-06T20:29:13 < aandrew> although in honesty I think i'll move all the movies/shit off this array and use movies+backups in a 2x6T RAID1 on this stupid seagate nas
2018-10-06T20:29:26 < zyp> or you could do the trick I did and start the array degraded, and use the redundant drives for temporary storage
2018-10-06T20:29:28 < aandrew> there's *no* reason I need to have all that shit on a RAID6
2018-10-06T20:29:38 < aandrew> I can't do that
2018-10-06T20:30:04 < aandrew> 6 drives in a RAID6 means I can drop two drives, which is not enough to start up a same-size raidz2
2018-10-06T20:30:08 < aandrew> even in degraded mode
2018-10-06T20:30:19 < aandrew> I painted myself into a corner there
2018-10-06T20:30:52 < zyp> a 6x2TB RAID6 has 8TB usable space, how much of that is currently occupied?
2018-10-06T20:31:20 < aandrew> 5T
2018-10-06T20:32:16 < zyp> drop two of the drives, fill them up with 4T of that, find somewhere to stash the last 1T, now you've got four free drives, use those to start the array, copy the data back, then resilver the two drives you used for temporary storage
2018-10-06T20:33:40 < aandrew> right
2018-10-06T20:33:51 < zyp> or bring your server by here, I can hold the 5T for you while you recreate the array :p
2018-10-06T20:34:15 < zyp> still got like 19T usable empty
2018-10-06T20:34:16 < zyp> :p
2018-10-06T20:34:22 < aandrew> or just get a single 6T drive, config as RAID1 degraded, and copy the shit over, reuse the 6x2T for raidz2 and copy it back, then eventually buy antoher 6T drive and have my RAID1 mirror which I need anyway :-)
2018-10-06T20:34:28 < aandrew> hahaha
2018-10-06T20:34:41 < aandrew> 6T drives are at a really sweet spot for cost right now too
2018-10-06T20:35:00 < zyp> I've already had three of my friends borrowing space from me while redoing their own setups :p
2018-10-06T20:35:37 < aandrew> I don't doubt it
2018-10-06T20:36:10 < aandrew> I have to say it is really, really nice to get a SMART email, sigh, pull the drive off the shelf, replace the bad one, see if I can RMA it (usually not, usually about 2mos out of warranty) and order a replacement on amazon
2018-10-06T20:36:14 < aandrew> zero-stress
2018-10-06T20:36:27 < zyp> which country were you in again?
2018-10-06T20:36:30 < aandrew> .ca
2018-10-06T20:36:44 < zyp> how long do you normally have RMA rights there?
2018-10-06T20:36:54 < aandrew> I think I've been using software RAID for the last 10 years or so now. was RAID1 for the first while but then RAID5 and now RAID6
2018-10-06T20:37:04 < aandrew> I can't remember what the drives are
2018-10-06T20:37:09 < aandrew> I always get the cheapest/slowest drives too
2018-10-06T20:37:16 < aandrew> WD green usually, but seagate barracuda as well
2018-10-06T20:37:23 < aandrew> it doesn't amtter, it's not abotu performance at all
2018-10-06T20:37:38 < aandrew> I *think* the warranty period is usually a year or two?
2018-10-06T20:37:45 < aandrew> moment looking up the lastest failure
2018-10-06T20:38:08 < aandrew> WD20EZRX, date code Feb 2015
2018-10-06T20:38:38 < aandrew> March 2018 it was out of warranty
2018-10-06T20:38:40 < aandrew> so yeah 3Y
2018-10-06T20:38:52 < aandrew> so it failed 4m out of warranty
2018-10-06T20:39:24 < zyp> here in norway, warranties doesn't really matter much, everything bought as a consumer is covered by the consumer protection law, which entitles me to either a 2Y or 5Y RMA period, depending on whether the product is supposed to last for more than two years or not
2018-10-06T20:39:28 < aandrew> damn, I can't believe these LSI controllers can't do RAID6
2018-10-06T20:39:33 < aandrew> there goes my whole plan to get some CPU back
2018-10-06T20:39:34 < zyp> and hard drives are definitely supposed to last longer than two years
2018-10-06T20:40:01 < aandrew> oop better get the pumpkin out of theo oven
2018-10-06T20:40:16 < aandrew> this is a Dell XX2X2 which is LSI SAS 2008 IIRC
2018-10-06T20:40:36 < zyp> the last drive I RMAed were bought on 2013-08-10, I sent the RMA notice 2018-08-03
2018-10-06T20:40:52 < zyp> store ended up replacing it without even asking for the old drive back
2018-10-06T20:48:20 < Steffanx> 4.5 years and still warrenty. im still unsure about that.
2018-10-06T20:48:56 -!- chipant [~chipant@27.34.104.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2018-10-06T20:51:34 < zyp> there were some talk recently about reducing the time limit to harmonize with EU rules, but I think it got voted down
2018-10-06T20:55:06 < englishman> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7431402/banksys-famous-girl-with-balloon-artwork-is-shredded-minutes-after-being-sold-for-1m-at-sothebys-auction/
2018-10-06T20:55:13 < zyp> ah, it was EU that wanted to harmonize the rules
2018-10-06T20:55:15 < englishman> some video of the insides
2018-10-06T20:55:52 < zyp> they ended up backtracking on not allowing countries to give consumers better rights than the set minimums
2018-10-06T20:55:55 < aandrew> ok I just booted the node
2018-10-06T20:55:57 < zyp> http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20180221IPR98333/consumer-protection-eu-wide-rules-for-those-sold-a-defective-product
2018-10-06T20:56:12 < aandrew> it is a sas 2008, firmware v.14
2018-10-06T20:56:15 < aandrew> er 1.4
2018-10-06T20:56:24 < zyp> «member states may, however, maintain a longer guarantee period in their national laws, in order to preserve the level of consumer protection already granted in some countries»
2018-10-06T20:56:29 < aandrew> it can only do RAID1, RAID1E (?) and RAID0
2018-10-06T20:56:32 < aandrew> the MPT firmware is 6.00.00.00-IR
2018-10-06T20:57:02 < zyp> hardware raid is not worthwhile anyway
2018-10-06T20:57:42 < aandrew> well I'm just trying to offload the CPU
2018-10-06T20:57:51 < aandrew> software RAID6 is quite taxing. 5 was fine
2018-10-06T20:58:27 < zyp> my experience is that a relatively modern cpu has no problems keeping up with raid6
2018-10-06T20:58:43 < zyp> i.e. that's not where the bottleneck is
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2018-10-06T21:02:26 < aandrew> I thought the same
2018-10-06T21:02:43 < aandrew> RAID5 is okay software RAID, but I noticed a significant uptick in baseline CPU with RAID6
2018-10-06T21:02:49 < aandrew> which makes sense, it's double the parity load
2018-10-06T21:05:17 < zyp> IMO when the server can push 800MB/s, I'm not too concerned about cpu usage :)
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2018-10-06T21:06:50 < aandrew> I'm sitting at about 34% CPU running bonnie++
2018-10-06T21:07:03 < aandrew> (the md0_raid6 process only)
2018-10-06T21:09:39 < aandrew> yep
2018-10-06T21:09:54 < zyp> in other news, since the wall around my network closet got paneled earlier in the week, I dropped by to assemble the front today, turned out pretty well:
2018-10-06T21:09:58 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ovJMD.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Xfqyf.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/noP6Z.jpg
2018-10-06T21:11:38 < zyp> yeah, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out
2018-10-06T21:11:52 < Steffanx> You do have to remove the finger prints from the top P
2018-10-06T21:11:53 < Steffanx> :P
2018-10-06T21:12:02 < Steffanx> smudges
2018-10-06T21:12:11 < Steffanx> but cool indeed
2018-10-06T21:12:14 < aandrew> yeah if this card cant' do raid6 and there's no "partial raid" support in IT mode then I may as well just leave the RAID card out
2018-10-06T21:12:17 < zyp> yeah, I'll clean it when I move in
2018-10-06T21:12:30 < aandrew> Cracki: yeah I don't encrypt the volumes
2018-10-06T21:12:35 < zyp> it's dusty all over, in addition to the hand print on the top
2018-10-06T21:13:18 < aandrew> zyp: wow looks nice
2018-10-06T21:15:05 < zyp> main problem now is I'm worrying about how to fit everything into a 24-port patch panel :p
2018-10-06T21:16:09 < aandrew> :-)
2018-10-06T21:16:30 < aandrew> when I wired this house I brought everything into two 48 port patch panels (most of it is unused)
2018-10-06T21:16:33 < aandrew> one for data one for security
2018-10-06T21:16:45 < aandrew> then that is supposed to go to a rack with the switches etc 
2018-10-06T21:16:53 < aandrew> right now it's just cheap plywood shelves though
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2018-10-06T21:18:11 < zyp> I'm planning to run a mix of cat6 and fiber (for 10G), so I'm planning to use a patch panel like this: https://www.fs.com/de/en/products/69174.html
2018-10-06T21:18:47 < zyp> since it's keystone, I can fit both cat6 and duplex LC in it
2018-10-06T21:19:37 < aandrew> very nice
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2018-10-06T21:19:42 < zyp> https://www.fs.com/de/en/products/68554.html <- almost tempted to go for one of these instead, but then I'd need to find keystone couplers that actually fit
2018-10-06T21:19:51 < aandrew> hang on I'll take a very embarassing pic of my patch panel
2018-10-06T21:22:19 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/zjufYYP
2018-10-06T21:22:33 < Steffanx> :d
2018-10-06T21:23:01 < zyp> not the worst setup I've seen :)
2018-10-06T21:23:20 < aandrew> it's not nearly cleaned up yet
2018-10-06T21:23:28 < aandrew> a rack is supposed to be where those shelves are
2018-10-06T21:23:46 < aandrew> blue is data, white is security (which is a combination of dry contact and network)
2018-10-06T21:23:56 < aandrew> see if you can spot the arduino
2018-10-06T21:24:51 < aandrew> the security cameras there are waiting to be installed (they're just temporarily wired for configuration). the bubble wrap is SFP+ which should be on a different shelf 
2018-10-06T21:24:57 < aandrew> and the wiring's a holy goddamned mess
2018-10-06T21:25:18 < aandrew> I have a gigantic 4U APC power supply that I have to buy batteries for and use insetad of that white one
2018-10-06T21:25:25 < aandrew> anyway gotta jet
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2018-10-06T21:38:40 < kakimir> I'm watching from youtubes stuff like "Guess my gender identity | Lineup"
2018-10-06T21:39:11 < kakimir> how did this happen
2018-10-06T21:39:41 < kakimir> hmm
2018-10-06T21:39:44 < kakimir> no thanks
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2018-10-06T21:44:24 < Hamilton> Installed Manjaro inside VM...it doesn't let non-root user naviate to /media
2018-10-06T21:44:45 < Steffanx> never heard of htat distro
2018-10-06T21:47:51 < Hamilton> Steffanx, I woke up today with the single agenda of installing Arch...Got stuck on a Wifi problem (which was unrelated to Arch) but when I saw the wiki I immediately said gg wp
2018-10-06T21:48:30 < Hamilton> Manjaro is poor man's Arch 
2018-10-06T21:50:38 < Hamilton> Cracki, I decided "to Arch" is just "to memorize and follow bunch of arbitrary protocols and directories" 
2018-10-06T21:51:15 < Hamilton> I don't think someone learns "Linux" by using Arch...if we want to go full cryptic, better spend the time on idk Makefiles and C++
2018-10-06T21:53:19 < Hamilton> Totally check this guy...his videos are excellent
2018-10-06T21:53:20 < Hamilton> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83M5-NPDeWs
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2018-10-06T22:02:45 < Steffanx> Isnt installing Arch just following some tutorials without having a clue whats going on? :D
2018-10-06T22:04:12 < Hamilton> Steffanx, You seem to knew it already! Appreciated if you tipped me yesterday :)
2018-10-06T22:04:40 < Steffanx> :P
2018-10-06T22:04:41 -!- Laurenceb124 [~laurence@host86-140-184-169.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-06T22:05:05 < BrainDamage> pretty sure I've managed to understand >90% of the shit I've done when I've installed arch
2018-10-06T22:05:30 < Hamilton> BrainDamage, Even the rationale behind the directory names?
2018-10-06T22:05:47 < BrainDamage> stuff like /usr /etc?
2018-10-06T22:05:51 < BrainDamage> that's historical baggage
2018-10-06T22:05:54 < Steffanx> but you were already an experiences lunix user i assume BrainDamage
2018-10-06T22:06:11 < BrainDamage> etc was for stuff that couldn't physically fit /usr
2018-10-06T22:06:20 < Hamilton> BrainDamage, No, location of certain config files related to idk keyboard, wifi
2018-10-06T22:06:36 < Steffanx> *experienced
2018-10-06T22:06:39 < BrainDamage> sure, that's 100% understandable
2018-10-06T22:06:44 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: correct
2018-10-06T22:07:04 < BrainDamage> I wouldn't recommend arch to anyone who's not very familiar with linux already
2018-10-06T22:07:16 < BrainDamage> however, I wouldn't recommend manjaro to _anyone_
2018-10-06T22:07:24 < Hamilton> BrainDamage, :( why though
2018-10-06T22:07:35 < BrainDamage> because their distro is a pile of shit
2018-10-06T22:08:00 < BrainDamage> and they are incompetent
2018-10-06T22:08:22 < BrainDamage> https://gitlab.manjaro.org/packages/core/manjaro-system/blob/master/manjaro-update-system.sh
2018-10-06T22:08:26 < BrainDamage> this is their update script
2018-10-06T22:08:34 < BrainDamage> they even cut it significantly
2018-10-06T22:08:39 < BrainDamage> it used to be 20+ pages long
2018-10-06T22:08:42 < BrainDamage> check the history
2018-10-06T22:08:54 < Hamilton> BrainDamage, I wanted to try out something beside Ubuntu (because redditos told m you only tried Ubuntu) and here I am
2018-10-06T22:10:14 < zyp> arch is fine for dicking around with, but tedious to actually maintain for use
2018-10-06T22:10:37 < BrainDamage> or https://forum.manjaro.org/t/manjaro-installers-password-weakness/26322 and  I need to dig back when they got their SSL certificate expired, so they reccomended everyone to roll back their clocks to fix it
2018-10-06T22:10:48 < BrainDamage> and the same happened after 1 year, same recommendation too
2018-10-06T22:11:00 < Hamilton> BrainDamage, That was a famous one I guess (the ssl one)
2018-10-06T22:11:22 < BrainDamage> it happened twice, with 1 year distance
2018-10-06T22:12:29 < Hamilton> BrainDamage, Good thing I installed it in a VBox. So tell me about openSUSE 
2018-10-06T22:12:54 < BrainDamage> use whatever you want, just not manjaro, they are just incompetent
2018-10-06T22:13:01 < Steffanx> zyp, hackintosh is just as hard to maintain. As in good luck updating at all :P
2018-10-06T22:14:50 < Laurenceb124> https://www.reddit.com/r/Izlam/
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2018-10-06T22:24:39 < zyp> Steffanx, not gonna disagree, but that's unfair :p
2018-10-06T22:29:10 < jpa-> so is warez windows
2018-10-06T22:30:01 < aandrew> Steffanx: not really
2018-10-06T22:30:19 < aandrew> the only *potential* nasty area with hackintosh updates is kernel updates
2018-10-06T22:30:31 < aandrew> everything else is identical to real apple systems
2018-10-06T22:30:55 < aandrew> if you used installers like unibeast/multibeast it's ahrder
2018-10-06T22:31:07 < aandrew> but I try to use none of that, only clover 
2018-10-06T22:31:12 < aandrew> depends on what your hardware is I guess
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2018-10-06T22:38:35 < Steffanx> aandrew for me it breaks every time.
2018-10-06T22:38:38 < Steffanx> each update.
2018-10-06T22:38:55 -!- Hamilton [~Hamilton@46.248.48.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2018-10-06T22:39:12 < Steffanx> but it was a PITA to get it working on my hardware in the first place
2018-10-06T22:39:43 < zyp> I'm not really updating my macbook any more often than my hackintosh, so I'm not sure that's much of a difference though :p
2018-10-06T22:42:57 < aandrew> ah mine was pretty easy. X58A system
2018-10-06T22:43:10 < catphish> here's some fried eggs for no reason: https://i.imgur.com/UCEi7hz.jpg
2018-10-06T22:43:15 < aandrew> completely stock, but needed some audio patch and some DSDT work just made it work better
2018-10-06T22:43:38 < esden> yeah windows is a mess in that respect :(
2018-10-06T22:43:51 < esden> wrong channel :)
2018-10-06T22:44:10 < Steffanx> looks nice catphish
2018-10-06T22:44:12 < Steffanx> ty
2018-10-06T22:47:26 < catphish> Steffanx: it was indeed, the egg on the right is a supermarket free range egg, the one on the left is from my own bird :)
2018-10-06T22:48:21 < BrainDamage> >not flipping your eggs
2018-10-06T22:49:02 < Steffanx> whyy would you evne do that
2018-10-06T22:49:40 < catphish> i've never flipped an egg, often i'll baste them with hot oil, i'd be too scared of breaking it by flipping it
2018-10-06T22:49:47 < Laurenceb124> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBy6pheAGho
2018-10-06T22:49:53 < Laurenceb124> autiste
2018-10-06T22:50:02 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: eggs over [ easy, medium, done ], it thickens up the yolk without cooking it ( unless you reach the done )
2018-10-06T22:50:29 < catphish> i find the bet result is by basting until the top of the yolk is white but it's still runny, but it's effort
2018-10-06T22:51:05 < zyp> egg science
2018-10-06T22:51:41 < Steffanx> i just tend to cook my eggs :P
2018-10-06T22:51:58 < catphish> lol
2018-10-06T22:52:03 < catphish> eggs are serious business
2018-10-06T22:52:17 < BrainDamage> do you cook the yolks too, like a philistine?
2018-10-06T22:53:06 < Steffanx> idk how a philistine does it
2018-10-06T22:54:55 < BrainDamage> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=You%20Philistine
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2018-10-06T23:06:58 < leachim6> woah, I did not realize this board was so huge
2018-10-06T23:07:03 < leachim6> arduino eat your heart out eh
2018-10-06T23:07:41 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has joined ##stm32
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2018-10-06T23:12:16 < Steffanx> " It's usually made by nerds, geeks or prudish females." nuff said BrainDamage :P
2018-10-06T23:12:47 < Steffanx> Anyway i like it cooked, but not till its entirely solid. 
2018-10-06T23:13:15 < Steffanx> The yolk that is
2018-10-06T23:15:10 < Steffanx> Welcome Kumpel crt, and leachim6 
2018-10-06T23:22:24 < Ecco> I'd like to flash an STM32 with compressed data, and uncompress it when needed at runtime. Would you guys have any recommendation about some code I could reuse?
2018-10-06T23:23:56 < kakimir> shit I have bad case of hiccup
2018-10-06T23:24:30 < kakimir> just when I started relaxing with a can of beer
2018-10-06T23:25:03 < ivanshmakov> kakimir: Could’ve been worse.
2018-10-06T23:28:12 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-06T23:28:22 < kakimir> hiccups and nose bleeding
2018-10-06T23:29:16 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_QMPUZByA8lsepPvGnRJD4X5LsNmQA34/view?usp=sharing englishman 
2018-10-06T23:29:54 < kakimir> I started taking a picture the thing was shining in sunshine like a statue looking at my car
2018-10-06T23:30:05 < kakimir> until another car appeared
2018-10-06T23:30:06 < ivanshmakov> kakimir: I’ve though more about having a bad case of hiccup while needing to shit, but nose bleeding works too.
2018-10-06T23:30:21 < bitmask> what are the chances that I wont run into any problems if I replace the anet board's voltage divider that feeds the reference voltage to the stepper drivers (in order to raise the current)
2018-10-06T23:30:37 < kakimir> I think I have my beard wax everywhere - in my mobile phone lens too
2018-10-06T23:30:54 < Steffanx> i heard some positive stories about https://github.com/atomicobject/heatshrink Ecco
2018-10-06T23:31:14 < Steffanx> not sure if thats really what you need though
2018-10-06T23:32:36 < Steffanx> no snow yet kakimir ?
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2018-10-06T23:35:10 < qyx> Ecco: heatshrink
2018-10-06T23:35:18 < Ecco> qyx: Have you personally tried it?
2018-10-06T23:35:26 < qyx> yes
2018-10-06T23:35:36 < Ecco> Did you enjoy using it?
2018-10-06T23:35:39 < qyx> no
2018-10-06T23:35:41 < Ecco> ok :-D
2018-10-06T23:35:45 < qyx> but works
2018-10-06T23:36:06 < qyx> it is the best I could find
2018-10-06T23:36:10 < qyx> dongs approved too
2018-10-06T23:36:11 < Ecco> I read their API, and while I understand the need for a state machine in the general case, since I'll uncompress all my data at once in a RAM buffer, it's way overkill
2018-10-06T23:36:31 < Ecco> I found https://github.com/mbitsnbites/liblzg
2018-10-06T23:36:32 < qyx> actually that was my main requirement
2018-10-06T23:36:45 < qyx> the ability to compress/decompress data in chunks
2018-10-06T23:36:46 < Ecco> that = ? Being able to stream ?
2018-10-06T23:36:54 < Ecco> yep, makes sense
2018-10-06T23:37:24 < Ecco> The problem I have is that the decoder takes quite a lot of stack space (unless I read the code wrong)
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--- Day changed Sun Oct 07 2018
2018-10-07T00:06:13 -!- dekar [~dekar@port-92-192-112-199.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined ##stm32
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2018-10-07T00:16:22 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/w1YKJZfn
2018-10-07T00:22:00 -!- kow_ [~afed@135.0.26.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-07T00:25:09 < Steffanx> It's-a me, mariooo!
2018-10-07T00:25:58 < Steffanx> Its stvn for sure. The crt, the game console and the black guy. It fits
2018-10-07T00:29:37 < kakimir> for my next project I think I want to make really cool watch
2018-10-07T00:29:42 < kakimir> electronic watch
2018-10-07T00:34:12 < BrainDamage> battery life: 2 days
2018-10-07T00:34:20 < kakimir> like really cyber and stuff
2018-10-07T00:35:00 < BrainDamage> actually "boring" watches have pretty fancy logic inside
2018-10-07T00:35:06 < BrainDamage> the transistors work subtreshold
2018-10-07T00:35:15 < kakimir> ?
2018-10-07T00:35:20 < kakimir> why?
2018-10-07T00:35:36 < kakimir> current is so small?
2018-10-07T00:35:51 < BrainDamage> yes
2018-10-07T00:35:58 < BrainDamage> slow, but incredibly efficient
2018-10-07T00:38:07 < kakimir> interesting BrainDamage 
2018-10-07T00:38:13 < kakimir> thanks for sharing
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2018-10-07T00:55:13 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/8f57DjgQ
2018-10-07T00:55:51 < Steffanx> enough for today Laurenceb124 ?
2018-10-07T00:56:10 < Laurenceb124> 22st got b& from 4chan
2018-10-07T00:56:19 < Laurenceb124> global meme shortage incoming
2018-10-07T00:56:53 < Laurenceb124> a gay truck driver from Norway
2018-10-07T00:57:07 < Laurenceb124> he created norf fc, zoomer, feels guy etc
2018-10-07T00:57:26 < Laurenceb124> got b& for trolling the mods
2018-10-07T01:06:11 < englishman> kakimir I've seen like 3 Fisker Karma this year
2018-10-07T01:07:11 < englishman> cool mööse tho
2018-10-07T01:08:24 < jadew> BrainDamage, ever had to measure the effective dielectric constant?
2018-10-07T01:09:23 < BrainDamage> jadew: I've had to measure the tangent delta
2018-10-07T01:10:38 < jadew> so you kinda had to know the effective dk anyway, that's needed, correct?
2018-10-07T01:10:40 < BrainDamage> it's the complex component of the dielectric constant
2018-10-07T01:11:07 < BrainDamage> the one that gives the losses, and makes everyone bullshit about microwave ovens and water resonance
2018-10-07T01:11:53 < BrainDamage> jadew: you can easily measure vf, from that you can go to epsilonr IFF you can approximate mur = 1
2018-10-07T01:11:55 < jadew> BrainDamage, I'm trying to figure out the effective dk, by measuring the electrical length of a microstrip
2018-10-07T01:12:12 < BrainDamage> yeah, that works provided it's bare copper and really clean
2018-10-07T01:12:14 < jadew> but the results I'm getting are contradictory and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong
2018-10-07T01:12:23 < jadew> it is bare copper
2018-10-07T01:12:35 < BrainDamage> how are you measuring the length?
2018-10-07T01:12:41 < BrainDamage> lambda/4 stub?
2018-10-07T01:12:48 < BrainDamage> or phase shift?
2018-10-07T01:12:52 < jadew> with a VNA and time-domain transformations
2018-10-07T01:13:12 < BrainDamage> so phase shift measurements?
2018-10-07T01:13:13 < jadew> and I measure from the coax to microstrip discontinuities
2018-10-07T01:13:15 < jadew> yeah
2018-10-07T01:13:35 < jadew> but I wanted to take that out of the way (the connectors)
2018-10-07T01:13:45 < jadew> so I'm getting a pretty accurate eff. len measurement
2018-10-07T01:13:55 < jadew> I then do real len / measured to get the vf
2018-10-07T01:14:02 < BrainDamage> connectors as long as they are electrically small shouldn't particularly impact it
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2018-10-07T01:14:11 < jadew> and then (1 / vf)^2 to get the effective er
2018-10-07T01:14:47 < jadew> problem is the er I'm getting is 3.3 and the microstrip is 1.9 mm wide, which would result in an impedance of 57 ohms, but I've measured the impedance and it's 50 :/
2018-10-07T01:15:20 < jadew> (also through the time-domain transform, so I really know it's 50 in the middle)
2018-10-07T01:15:58 < jadew> which would imply that 1.9mm width is correct, which in turn implies a ~4.3 er
2018-10-07T01:16:05 < jadew> which... is not 3.3
2018-10-07T01:16:21 < jadew> any idea what I'm doing wrong?
2018-10-07T01:17:01 < BrainDamage> what formula did you use for the impedance
2018-10-07T01:17:07 < BrainDamage> the short of the insanely long one?
2018-10-07T01:17:26 < jadew> when I calculated the microstrip?
2018-10-07T01:17:30 < BrainDamage> yes
2018-10-07T01:17:35 < jadew> short
2018-10-07T01:18:07 < jadew> got it from Pozar's book
2018-10-07T01:18:11 < BrainDamage> I would suggest to use the full formula
2018-10-07T01:18:15 < BrainDamage> which is insanely long
2018-10-07T01:18:55 < jadew> but what are the odds that I got the wrong result from the formula and the right result in practice? :)
2018-10-07T01:19:12 < jadew> (initially I assumed ~4.3 er)
2018-10-07T01:19:20 < jadew> and the measurement confirms it
2018-10-07T01:19:53 < jadew> the only thing that doesn't fit is my measurement of the effective er
2018-10-07T01:20:10 < BrainDamage> is the vf constant at different frequencies?
2018-10-07T01:20:24 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah
2018-10-07T01:20:26 < BrainDamage> if it's not, it's a symtom you're turning on the non-TEM modes
2018-10-07T01:20:32 < jadew> you think that's what's causing it?
2018-10-07T01:20:49 < BrainDamage> which won't have a constant vf
2018-10-07T01:21:00 < kakimir> englishman: I have seen 0 in my lief
2018-10-07T01:21:05 < BrainDamage> a microstrip is only a quasi-TEM waveguide
2018-10-07T01:21:16 < BrainDamage> it supports non-TEM modes
2018-10-07T01:21:21 < jadew> I see
2018-10-07T01:22:21 < BrainDamage> the epsilonr that a microstrip sees is not the epsilonr of the board
2018-10-07T01:22:33 < BrainDamage> but a sort of weighted average between the board and the air on top
2018-10-07T01:22:47 < jadew> I know, but does that mean that when designing you should use the epsilonr of the board or the effective one?
2018-10-07T01:22:50 < BrainDamage> depending on the frequency, the energy ratio shifts and more and more energy goes into the air up
2018-10-07T01:23:02 < BrainDamage> if it's low enough frequency, the board
2018-10-07T01:23:11 < BrainDamage> if it's not, then you need to use the effective one
2018-10-07T01:23:43 < jadew> that makes sense, so as the engergy gets into the air, the er gets lower
2018-10-07T01:23:47 < jadew> that would explain the result
2018-10-07T01:24:51 < BrainDamage> what's your h/w ratio?
2018-10-07T01:24:53 < jadew> I'll try to measure the eff. er vs frequency from phase, but I have to see if I can deembed the connectors easily
2018-10-07T01:25:07 < jadew> 1/1.9
2018-10-07T01:25:11 < jadew> so about 0.5
2018-10-07T01:26:00 < BrainDamage> guess what
2018-10-07T01:26:05 < BrainDamage> (4.3+1)/2+(4.3−1)/2 (1/sqrt(1+12·0.5))) = 3.27
2018-10-07T01:26:18 < BrainDamage> that's effective epsilonr
2018-10-07T01:26:23 < BrainDamage> you're putting energy in the air
2018-10-07T01:26:24 < jadew> hah
2018-10-07T01:26:36 < jadew> ok, so my measurement is correct - that's good to know
2018-10-07T01:28:46 < jadew> now I wonder what that 50 Ohm impedance in the middle of the microstrip means
2018-10-07T01:29:03 < jadew> I guess the problem with that measurement is that it doesn't take the frequency into account
2018-10-07T01:29:08 < jadew> ok, it all makes sense now
2018-10-07T01:29:09 < jadew> thanks
2018-10-07T01:29:51 < jadew> let me try to deembed by time-gating and see what the microstrip's response really is vs frequency
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2018-10-07T01:33:14 < jadew> ok, at 10 GHz it's 10 Ohms out
2018-10-07T01:33:35 < jadew> thank you
2018-10-07T01:34:16 < jadew> it all makes sense now
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2018-10-07T02:24:49 < jadew> I want a movie
2018-10-07T02:24:53 < jadew> and maybe a pizza
2018-10-07T02:33:22 < catphish> jadew: then you may have one
2018-10-07T02:33:39 < jadew> are you taking me out?
2018-10-07T02:34:24 < jadew> watching "Stealth"
2018-10-07T03:13:42 -!- kuldeep [~kuldeep@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2018-10-07T03:22:44 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/9rw5DZ28
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2018-10-07T06:49:17 < Thorn> C0G 47nF 1210 $0.1/pc
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2018-10-07T07:25:40 < englishman> ouch
2018-10-07T07:33:19 < aandrew> what's teh chinese digikey? clsc or something?
2018-10-07T07:42:19 < Sadale> taobao? :P Not exactly, tho.
2018-10-07T07:43:04 < Sadale> Anyway I've seen a few suppliers trying to sell components on taobao. They often require you to contact them before ordering or your order will be invalid.
2018-10-07T07:43:20 < Sadale> Of course you have to speak Chinese to contact them. :P
2018-10-07T07:44:46 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
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2018-10-07T07:46:17 < aandrew> no it's a short domain name 
2018-10-07T07:46:18 < aandrew> lscc?
2018-10-07T07:48:51 < Sadale> this one? http://www.ickey.cn/
2018-10-07T07:49:05 < Sadale> It has the name "key" on it.
2018-10-07T07:49:08 < Sadale> s/name/word/
2018-10-07T07:49:40 < aandrew> no
2018-10-07T07:49:45 < aandrew> it doesn't have 'key' in it at all
2018-10-07T07:49:54 < aandrew> I think englishman knows it but he's probably gone to bed
2018-10-07T07:49:59 < Sadale> https://www.szlcsc.com/
2018-10-07T07:49:59 < aandrew> dongs for sure knows it
2018-10-07T07:50:00 < Sadale> This one?
2018-10-07T07:50:05 < aandrew> no
2018-10-07T07:50:08 < Sadale> lcsc. But it has sz on it.
2018-10-07T07:50:12 < aandrew> I appreciate your tryign to help
2018-10-07T07:50:21 < englishman> innovation never sleeps
2018-10-07T07:50:35 < Sadale> anyway try googling or baidu'ing "电子元件 采购"
2018-10-07T07:50:51 < Sadale> That's the keyword I can come up with in Chinese.
2018-10-07T07:50:56 < englishman> it's lcsc
2018-10-07T07:51:07 < englishman> never even been to their site tho so idk the domain
2018-10-07T07:51:17 < aandrew> ah that is it
2018-10-07T07:51:27 < aandrew> sadale had it the chinese language version if it I guess
2018-10-07T07:51:30 < Sadale> Here's another lcsc, tho. https://lcsc.com/
2018-10-07T07:51:47 < Sadale> I'm thinking if that szlcsc is an imitator or something.
2018-10-07T07:52:00 < englishman> at least that one loads
2018-10-07T07:52:22 < aandrew> hm I think I fried this nucleo-f767zi board
2018-10-07T07:52:35 < Sadale> boooooooooo :p
2018-10-07T07:52:39 < Sadale> wow. F7. That's an expensive one.
2018-10-07T07:52:54 < aandrew> the 3.3V LDO on the stlink was super hot, replaced it and it comes up but still nothing on swd
2018-10-07T07:52:58 < aandrew> nothing else hot
2018-10-07T07:53:27 < englishman> rip
2018-10-07T07:53:28 < aandrew> Sadale: yeah. I have a half dozen more here but I don't want to solder on another pair of 72 pin headers
2018-10-07T07:53:40 < aandrew> nope there's another regulator burning up
2018-10-07T07:53:45 < aandrew> burned another finger, fuck
2018-10-07T07:54:26 < englishman> this mg chemicals liquid rosin flux is absolute shit
2018-10-07T07:54:38 < englishman> for tinning wires and nothing more
2018-10-07T07:54:42 < aandrew> yeah fuck liquid flux
2018-10-07T07:54:52 < englishman> well i kinda need it
2018-10-07T07:54:59 < englishman> but the local place didnt have any noclean
2018-10-07T07:55:04 < englishman> just rosin cra
2018-10-07T07:55:05 < englishman> p
2018-10-07T07:55:07 < englishman> bad idea
2018-10-07T07:55:25 < aandrew> I discovered tacky flux and i'm noever going back
2018-10-07T07:55:34 < aandrew> I don't know why it took me so long to try it
2018-10-07T07:55:37 < aandrew> it's life changing
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2018-10-07T07:55:56 < englishman> sure in the little syringe
2018-10-07T07:55:57 < aandrew> I love a good oldschool rosin core 
2018-10-07T07:56:01 < englishman> idk how you lived without it either
2018-10-07T07:56:18 < aandrew> it's a mess to work with but man nothing works as good as that
2018-10-07T07:56:24 < aandrew> not even tacky flux
2018-10-07T07:56:32 < aandrew> although tacky flux is a very close second
2018-10-07T07:56:41 < englishman> why are you even fucking around with leaded solder old man
2018-10-07T07:56:46 < aandrew> but if you need to tin stranded wire for making up harnesses or shit, rosin core is the stuff
2018-10-07T07:56:53 < aandrew> lol
2018-10-07T07:56:55 < englishman> unless you are doing 100% pth stuff for mil or space
2018-10-07T07:56:58 < aandrew> I do everythign leaded 
2018-10-07T07:57:12 < englishman> gross
2018-10-07T07:57:12 < aandrew> only because I don't particularly like leadfree shit
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2018-10-07T07:59:45 < aandrew> wtf
2018-10-07T07:59:55 < aandrew> U7 just drives an LED, why the fuck is that getting hot
2018-10-07T08:02:17 < aandrew> aha, it's not U7, it's U6 that's cooking
2018-10-07T08:02:32 < aandrew> LD39050, takes 5V down to 3.3V
2018-10-07T08:02:53 < aandrew> so now is it the regulator or is it something connected to it
2018-10-07T08:03:19 < aandrew> open up jp5 and see what happens (that routes the 3.3v out to VDD
2018-10-07T08:12:35 < aandrew> nope it's the regulator
2018-10-07T08:13:01 < aandrew> I've got the output of the regulator completely disconnected from everything else (SB3 open, SB5 open, SB2 open) and it still melts down
2018-10-07T08:13:18 < aandrew> so that's good news, except that I haven't got one of those parts handy and don't want to pull it off a good board
2018-10-07T08:13:44 < aandrew> I'm guessing I overvolted the 5V input and that fried both those regulators
2018-10-07T08:21:03 < bitmask> the acrylic is disappearing: https://i.imgur.com/F7bkDIS.png
2018-10-07T08:36:04 < aandrew> balls
2018-10-07T08:36:53 < aandrew> pulled off the cooked regulator, wired up 3.3V temporarily to its output, nothing's hot anymore but still jlink does not see the stm32
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2018-10-07T10:51:28 < Steffanx> Whats up.
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2018-10-07T13:04:41 < jadew> aandrew, maybe you have a short?
2018-10-07T13:05:34 < jadew> but I guess you would have noticed the current draw on the power supply
2018-10-07T13:05:46 < jadew> and it's a 5 hours old issue, so I'm sure it's fixed by now
2018-10-07T13:09:01 < Steffanx> Lol jadew 
2018-10-07T13:24:33 < Steffanx> 👺
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2018-10-07T14:11:38 < Thorn> SAOCOM 1A Mission T - 15h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr_C6LQ7mHc
2018-10-07T14:16:14 < BrainDamage> what really impresses me is how much shit managed to get into the unicode standard
2018-10-07T14:16:45 < BrainDamage> I bet a decent part of the unicode committee work is gradually shifting from language handling to debates about the poop emoji
2018-10-07T14:20:46 < Steffanx> i like the discussion about what should be in a salad and what not
2018-10-07T14:20:47 < Steffanx> lol
2018-10-07T14:24:57 < BrainDamage> welcome stvn, xray crt or leaded?
2018-10-07T14:25:44 -!- dekar [~dekar@port-92-192-8-36.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
2018-10-07T14:28:59 < BrainDamage> the only one left lies half dissembled, it's my linac
2018-10-07T14:31:56 < Steffanx> No pacman on that one then
2018-10-07T14:32:49 < Steffanx> nor donkey kong. its crt's fav.
2018-10-07T14:40:43 < Steffanx> Your master.
2018-10-07T15:23:09 < invzim> meh, allpcb must have a huge backlog
2018-10-07T15:23:12 < invzim> Order Time:2018/9/29 22:32:53
2018-10-07T15:23:18 < invzim> still in "audit"
2018-10-07T15:23:41 < jpa-> still in audit by cloning department
2018-10-07T15:39:18 < Streaker> Chinese holiday week
2018-10-07T15:39:22 < Steffanx> ^
2018-10-07T16:07:09 < dongs> sup dickheads
2018-10-07T16:07:30 < Steffanx> So did you enjoy the cars dongs
2018-10-07T16:08:03 < dongs> Ecco: what, heatshrink doesnt take up any stack. well, nothign that I would notice. 
2018-10-07T16:08:11 < dongs> i think my default build is like 2-4k of stack and it never hit anyrwhere near it
2018-10-07T16:08:19 < dongs> anyway, worksforme
2018-10-07T16:14:41 < zyp> still wondering whether to go with a 48-port patch panel and run double cat6 to every outlet or cram everything into a 24-port patch panel
2018-10-07T16:15:36 < zyp> took a look at my current network and figured that'd use 7 ports in total
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2018-10-07T16:19:25 < zyp> for most outlets, I probably won't even need a single outlet most of the time
2018-10-07T16:20:09 < zyp> but it's hard to predict where I might need a double outlet at some point, so it might be a good idea to just run double everywhere in the first place
2018-10-07T16:27:20 < Thorn> how do you map a schematics pin to multiple footprint pins in Altium Disaster? I tried "2, 3" in the pin map, it correctly displays in the preview but in the pcb editor only one pin is assigned to the net
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2018-10-07T16:34:45 < Steffann> https://youtu.be/OdCfuJZxWy8?t=215 that guy will hate you Thorn
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2018-10-07T16:34:59 < Steffanx> And didnt you give up on altium? P:
2018-10-07T16:38:09 < Thorn> no I didn't
2018-10-07T16:38:56 < dongs> holy shit i finally fixed a retarded heatshrink bug i had
2018-10-07T16:39:07 < dongs> it would decode into garbage on small iamges and i oculdnt figure out why
2018-10-07T16:39:19 < dongs> turns out i was feedingit fixed size blocks for sink()
2018-10-07T16:39:26 < dongs> and last block would rarely be aligned at 256bytes
2018-10-07T16:39:50 < dongs> so after it was done decoding the last block at 256, it'll continue decoding garbage for a while, either into dma buffer or out into lala land
2018-10-07T16:40:15 < dongs> what i needed to do was push min() of total_size-sunk and 256
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2018-10-07T17:04:29 < Steffanx> hah.
2018-10-07T17:04:54 < Steffanx> had to think a bit what a "iamges" was :P
2018-10-07T17:18:05 < Thorn> Altium Disaster
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2018-10-07T17:49:09 < karlp> mawk: so, what was this host service you were with, so I know not to go with them?
2018-10-07T18:04:04 < jpa-> why does stlink fail to flash my device when i forget to connect power to it :/
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2018-10-07T18:14:43 < Steffanx> Welcome jpa-, i see your day is entertaining.
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2018-10-07T18:20:02 < Thorn> found 4 18650 batteries from aliexpress that I haven't touched for at least year. ~3.57V on all of them
2018-10-07T18:22:19 < englishman> Thorn you put all the pins on top of other in sch, hide all their names but one and name one pin 2,3 etc
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2018-10-07T18:35:08 < Thorn> I had to wash my eyes after reading that.
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2018-10-07T18:53:19 < englishman> simple and it works
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2018-10-07T19:28:39 < mawk> karlp: online
2018-10-07T19:28:48 < mawk> https://www.online.net/fr
2018-10-07T19:28:56 < mawk> they do dedicated servers and hosting
2018-10-07T19:29:26 < mawk> they have server in paris, amsterdam, also elsewhere
2018-10-07T19:37:36 < Steffanx> Did your eyes fall out, Thorn?
2018-10-07T19:37:42 < Steffanx> Like the video guy said
2018-10-07T19:41:39 < englishman> just saw that video
2018-10-07T19:41:40 < englishman> wtf
2018-10-07T19:41:41 < englishman> thats so wrong
2018-10-07T19:41:45 < englishman> EPAD is 100% a pin
2018-10-07T19:41:53 < englishman> and not all of them are connected to gnd by default
2018-10-07T19:41:57 < englishman> i hope his eyes do fall out
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2018-10-07T19:49:52 < Hamilton> #stm32 is invite-only?
2018-10-07T19:50:50 < englishman> yes
2018-10-07T19:50:53 < englishman> ##stm32 is not
2018-10-07T19:50:54 < englishman> https://spectrum.ieee.org/geek-life/hands-on/with-the-dead-bug-method-hobbyists-can-break-through-the-highfrequency-barrier
2018-10-07T19:51:10 < Steffanx> Oh its supposed to redirect, Hamilton 
2018-10-07T19:51:44 < englishman> http://www.sdmakersguild.org/the-art-of-manhattan-style-circuit-construction/
2018-10-07T19:51:47 < Hamilton> englishman, Is it for like original engineers of st discussing developmet?
2018-10-07T19:51:51 < englishman> modern maker circuit construction techniques
2018-10-07T19:52:07 < englishman> its a channel that is not allowed on freenode due to ~rules~
2018-10-07T19:52:24 < Hamilton> oh I forgot double ## is for unofficial stuff
2018-10-07T19:52:27 < Hamilton> ok
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2018-10-07T19:54:54 <@Steffanx> Fixed.
2018-10-07T19:55:04 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
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2018-10-07T20:13:49 < Thorn> ugh wat 0603 rated 0.5W? https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Current-Sense-Resistors_100mR-R100-1_C156380.html
2018-10-07T20:20:04 < englishman> walter electric
2018-10-07T20:20:12 < englishman> nice Chinese clone parts there
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2018-10-07T20:24:53 < jadew> my son just told me his love for us (me and his mom) is infinite
2018-10-07T20:24:57 < jadew> 40 infinites for me and 500 infinites for his mom
2018-10-07T20:28:10 < BrainDamage> did you take the chance to explain uncountable hierarchy?
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2018-10-07T20:29:02 < jadew> no, but I have a feeling he already gets it
2018-10-07T20:29:11 < Thorn> do the diagonal proof
2018-10-07T20:29:32 < jadew> he knew it's infinite
2018-10-07T20:29:42 < PaulFertser> jadew: there actually are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfinite_number 's
2018-10-07T20:29:59 < englishman> you should tell him love is finite and he is wrong
2018-10-07T20:31:30 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: that prefix probably triggers a few users here
2018-10-07T20:31:44 < jadew> hah
2018-10-07T20:32:26 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: actually, some parts of wikipedia related to math are actively edited by the most prominent experts in the specific fields.
2018-10-07T20:32:44 < BrainDamage> yeah I know
2018-10-07T20:33:01 < BrainDamage> wikipedia actually has incredible quality for some extremely technical fields
2018-10-07T20:33:19 < BrainDamage> impossible to understand as well unless you're deeply familiar with the subject
2018-10-07T20:33:25 < BrainDamage> so good as a refresher, not as an intro
2018-10-07T20:33:25 < PaulFertser> And in any case that's usually not a bad place to get an overview and start researching deeper.
2018-10-07T20:33:25 < jadew> yeah, I was surprised to find amazing details on some topics too
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2018-10-07T20:38:32 < PaulFertser> jadew: re "uncountable hierarchy", I would guess BrainDamage meant the cardinality of the set of natural numbers, rational numbers vs. real numbers, then continuum hypothesis etc. So I doubt your son already got it.
2018-10-07T20:39:38 < BrainDamage> yup
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2018-10-07T20:56:27 < Thorn> SAOCOM 1A Mission T - 8.5h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr_C6LQ7mHc
2018-10-07T20:56:32 < Steffanx> ty
2018-10-07T20:56:44 < Steffanx> ill be asleep by then
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2018-10-07T21:08:48 < aandrew> jadew: no short; if I remove all sinks for the regulator and it's still hot, it's the regulator. Besides, I removed the reg and injected 3.3v; my 3.3v supply is still 3.3v when powering everything, just no device on SWD shows up. I think the stm32 may be cooked
2018-10-07T21:09:05 < aandrew> there is a program in it and it's not blinking leds so that's the likely culprit
2018-10-07T21:09:25 < aandrew> I am guessing I backfed 12V on to the 5V or 3.3V rail accidentally and cooked it
2018-10-07T21:09:33 < aandrew> a new nucleo in its place works just fine
2018-10-07T21:11:30 < Hamilton> rate my setup :D https://img42.com/IXsXm
2018-10-07T21:12:43 < aandrew> B-, you're using a GUI IRC client when you shoudl be using irssi in an iterm2 window. That'd get you an A-. To get full marks you'd have to be ssh'd or using a bouncer
2018-10-07T21:13:40 < BrainDamage> that looks like lunix, so no iterm
2018-10-07T21:13:57 < aandrew> oh you're right, osx has the balls on the left
2018-10-07T21:14:05 < BrainDamage> Hamilton: https://old.reddit.com/r/unixporn/
2018-10-07T21:14:49 < Hamilton> BrainDamage, yeah, I wanted to know the opinion of you guys :)
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2018-10-07T21:21:28 < Hamilton> Cracki, thanks :)
2018-10-07T21:27:14 < qyx> your image is dead
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2018-10-07T21:36:00 < Hamilton> qyx, https://pasteboard.co/HHnTIJ6.png
2018-10-07T21:42:34 < jadew> Hamilton, I thought you're showing us your bench
2018-10-07T21:42:49 < Steffanx> Hah me too
2018-10-07T21:46:05 < Hamilton> jadew, I thought too when I was writing it :) ..
2018-10-07T21:46:50 < BrainDamage> ahem, I believe the more commonly accepted internet request would be "show us your tits"
2018-10-07T21:47:04 < Hamilton> BrainDamage, even in IRC?
2018-10-07T21:47:13 < BrainDamage> Even in IRC.
2018-10-07T21:47:13 < Steffanx> no thanks. Assuming Hamilton is a man, i dont have to see some men tits.
2018-10-07T21:47:20 < Steffanx> not even assuming. Since only men on irc.
2018-10-07T21:47:31 < jadew> I'm with Steffan
2018-10-07T21:47:32 < Steffanx> *males.
2018-10-07T21:47:37 < Hamilton> And children are FBI agents?
2018-10-07T21:47:58 < jadew> and BrainDamage, I think the expression is "tits or GTFO"
2018-10-07T21:49:43 < Hamilton> On an unrelated topic, I've recently *discovered* this classic musician called Johan Strauss [the son] ...definitely check him out on YT
2018-10-07T21:50:18 < Hamilton> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZQaEv4bgp4
2018-10-07T21:53:31 < Steffanx> Sorry, this is a bit too classical for me.
2018-10-07T21:53:45 < Hamilton> :(
2018-10-07T21:54:11 < Hamilton> I guess that era was called "romanticism" or something
2018-10-07T21:54:26 < jadew> you know why they didn't listen to modern music back then?
2018-10-07T21:54:30 < jadew> because they didn't have it
2018-10-07T21:55:02 < Hamilton> jadew, This Struass is known as King of Waltz...this waltz was not common then as was considered modern (and rude)
2018-10-07T21:55:28 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQsgE0L450 that's as "classic" as it gets for me.
2018-10-07T21:56:24 < jadew> I like classical music, but not a bit fan of waltz, I totally get why people back then didn't like it
2018-10-07T21:56:46 < Steffanx> Now we have Bieber. YAY 
2018-10-07T21:56:55 < Hamilton> Steffanx, hmm...thought adagio was older...but no it seems 1930s
2018-10-07T21:56:55 < jadew> *big
2018-10-07T21:57:03 < Steffanx> Although i dont hear much from him lately now i think about it.
2018-10-07T21:57:30 < jadew> Steffanx, new stars from Disney are probably in vogue now
2018-10-07T21:58:11 < Hamilton> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d48p5DKS_c  music like this seem to tale a story of some kind
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2018-10-07T21:59:11 < Steffanx> Youtube still not blocked in iran Hamilton? How can the bits still be exported?
2018-10-07T21:59:37 < Hamilton> Steffanx, bro we use vpns
2018-10-07T21:59:45 < Steffanx> hah
2018-10-07T21:59:57 < Hamilton> for linux I found only Lantern 
2018-10-07T22:00:02 < Steffanx> Is something like that forbidden there?
2018-10-07T22:00:26 < Hamilton> kinda yes....but everyone uses it
2018-10-07T22:00:38 < jadew> what's forbidden? VPN?
2018-10-07T22:00:53 < Hamilton> Although there is no law against *using vpns* but distributing them
2018-10-07T22:01:28 < Hamilton> jadew, YT, twitter, and the like are filtered here
2018-10-07T22:02:15 < jadew> Hamilton, why? what kind of government do you have?
2018-10-07T22:03:08 < Hamilton> jadew, A bad one? lol...
2018-10-07T22:03:39 < jadew> are they socialists?
2018-10-07T22:03:46 < Steffanx> Iran socialists? :D
2018-10-07T22:03:51 < MrMobius> lol
2018-10-07T22:03:54 < Hamilton> jadew, basically they say those media are the propaganda tools of the west
2018-10-07T22:03:55 < jadew> don't know... I'm asking...
2018-10-07T22:03:57 < MrMobius> trolling bra?
2018-10-07T22:04:14 < Steffanx> Its called "islamic republic of iran" for a reason
2018-10-07T22:04:19 < Hamilton> Funny thing is almost ALL officials use Twitter
2018-10-07T22:04:46 < jadew> ok... islamic, but what does that look like?
2018-10-07T22:04:51 < Steffanx> You Hamilton be our only muslim? (not that i care, but .. )
2018-10-07T22:04:57 < Steffanx> *would
2018-10-07T22:05:00 < Hamilton> And when confronted with the question that how are you connecting to filtered net, they say they are using network which is not under filtering lol
2018-10-07T22:05:05 < jadew> do you have capitalist freedoms? doesn't look like it
2018-10-07T22:05:08 < jadew> so wth is going on?
2018-10-07T22:06:22 < Hamilton> wow so many questions AMA
2018-10-07T22:06:44 < Hamilton> Steffanx, Yes I consider myself muslim 
2018-10-07T22:06:44 < jadew> Cracki, I think nothing, as long as you didn't start as a muslim
2018-10-07T22:07:01 < Steffanx> We dont have a iranian over on a daily basis Hamilton . We have to ask such questions. :P
2018-10-07T22:08:02 < Steffanx> Lol, that's an interesting way of putting it. Usually people say yes or no, Hamilton.
2018-10-07T22:08:10 < Hamilton> I know what an iranian guy may look like to you...an angry-looking super-religious potential bomb-blower...and because of recent event, I guess you have every right to think so 
2018-10-07T22:08:38 < Steffanx> Only a very short sighted someone would think that.
2018-10-07T22:09:08 < MrMobius> maybe thats what they want you to think western propaganda think sabout you
2018-10-07T22:09:18 < Steffanx> :P
2018-10-07T22:09:25 < Hamilton> MrMobius, nah man I read reddit/9gag/yt comments
2018-10-07T22:09:50 < Hamilton> I'm kinda sure Iran doesn't have nukes
2018-10-07T22:09:58 < Steffanx> yet
2018-10-07T22:10:00 < MrMobius> Israel?
2018-10-07T22:10:26 < Hamilton> Cracki, who iran?
2018-10-07T22:10:52 < Hamilton> Yes currently in middle-east only they have nukes
2018-10-07T22:11:02 < Hamilton> If we don't consider pakistan as me
2018-10-07T22:11:53 < Steffanx> Nah Isreal is good. No bad words about jews mate ;)
2018-10-07T22:12:31 < Steffanx> Lol crt woke up in the middle of the night
2018-10-07T22:12:49 < Steffanx> Dont you like it, Cracki
2018-10-07T22:13:14 < Hamilton> jadew, Steffanx and about being non-muslim, yes you're gonna have a very difficult life if you publicly say your beliefs 
2018-10-07T22:13:16 < Steffanx> We even have this special organisation to go cry baby when you say something about em
2018-10-07T22:13:48 < Hamilton> And that is the reason I consider myself kinda-muslim or still-muslim...because I don't like some sharia laws
2018-10-07T22:14:42 < Hamilton> Cracki, I'm pretty sure there are scripts parsing IRC channels for such things! lol I have bacome paranoid>
2018-10-07T22:15:02 < Steffanx> At least one.
2018-10-07T22:15:37 < BrainDamage> or you just realize that most people don't have strong sentiments towards other ethnicities / religions / states unless they have slighted them personally
2018-10-07T22:16:45 < Steffanx> We replaced it with other shit.
2018-10-07T22:17:07 < Hamilton> Cracki, no (not yet I guess lol)
2018-10-07T22:17:18 < Hamilton> economy is shit basically
2018-10-07T22:20:33 < Hamilton> Cracki, There are like <5 main places u get them in Tehran...The sellers don't know shit about parts generally...they can be considered as a exact phrase search enginer outputting we have , or we don't have
2018-10-07T22:21:12 < Hamilton> Definitly no digi-key or the like thanks to sanctions
2018-10-07T22:21:35 < Hamilton> I don't think I can work in embedded in this country
2018-10-07T22:22:11 < Hamilton> Cracki, Yeah paypal or every us-dollar based transactions are sanctioned...
2018-10-07T22:22:34 < Hamilton> People even have difficulty in accessing some drugs for their diseases
2018-10-07T22:23:07 < Hamilton> I know Multiple Sclerosis patients have problems accessing drugs because of sanctions
2018-10-07T22:24:05 < Hamilton> I guess basically the situation can be summed-up as war condition
2018-10-07T22:25:58 < Hamilton> Most of of students/ my classmates go abroad for PhD because there are no works related to their degree here
2018-10-07T22:26:42 < Hamilton> I guess Iran has the most number of non-returning international students among chinese/indians/...
2018-10-07T22:28:49 < Hamilton> Cracki, I don't think so...At least I remember hearing one sentence from the founder saying, "let them leave, their idealogy is different than us, their world-view is different than us"
2018-10-07T22:29:29 < Hamilton> Cracki, where are you from?
2018-10-07T22:35:18 < Hamilton> Cracki, I guess you've never interacted with ideological people, you see, you are basing your reasonings and calculations on the material and sensible stuff like chinese goverment is gonna use them for improvement cause they are smart and such...but from what I see, you can not do these reasonings with my government...they have answers for every philosophical problems of human history AND they think their answers is the best regardless of anything 
2018-10-07T22:36:50 < Hamilton> Cracki, Would the soviets wanted their smart west-loving students back?
2018-10-07T22:37:44 < Steffanx> Good old times
2018-10-07T22:38:37 < Hamilton> Cracki, well, there are recent laws about fines for travelling outside of country and they grow sequentally capping on third visit.
2018-10-07T22:39:30 < Hamilton> leaving I guess...
2018-10-07T22:40:51 < Hamilton> I don't know what are your (and the west) stance on religion is...but this matter is very important to me....I especially don't like the dissolution of family and family values in west...like dating/gf stuff...and the way old people are treated (at least in us internet)
2018-10-07T22:42:12 < Hamilton> And the fact that they export weapons to countries like saudi arabia and are chill about it (google yemen kids bombings)
2018-10-07T22:43:14 < Hamilton> Basically US screwed over middle east and is constantly de-stablizing it...I don't like my government and this us behaviour on the same level
2018-10-07T22:44:45 < Hamilton> Cracki, well guess what? local governemt is saying west is exporting weapons to child-killers because they only care about money not human lives
2018-10-07T22:45:04 < Hamilton> And I guess they are right
2018-10-07T22:47:35 < catphish> i think the uk has done a reasonable job of not screwing up any countries lately :) we're too busy screwing up our own
2018-10-07T22:47:43 < Hamilton> Cracki, Well I guess you seem to be among the minority of western people having such viewes...
2018-10-07T22:47:57 < Hamilton> catphish, nope..they are all over bahrain/uae,...
2018-10-07T22:48:03 < Hamilton> royal navy I guess
2018-10-07T22:48:17 < catphish> well rule brittania
2018-10-07T22:49:04 < Hamilton> What does ##stm32 think about religion and after-death events? this matter has become my main problem lately..
2018-10-07T22:49:18 < catphish> http://www.southparkstudios.co.uk/clips/153878/saying-one-thing-and-doing-another
2018-10-07T22:49:38 < Steffanx> That website is not available in my country
2018-10-07T22:49:48 < Steffanx> Fuck southpark anyway, unfunny crap.
2018-10-07T22:49:59 < Hamilton> crt, since your interests are similar to mine, yes
2018-10-07T22:50:01 < catphish> i love south park
2018-10-07T22:50:11 < Steffanx> Then i feel sorry for you Cracki :P
2018-10-07T22:50:22 < Steffanx> i mean catphish
2018-10-07T22:50:23 < Steffanx> lol
2018-10-07T22:50:31 < Steffanx> sorry Cracki for miss-using your nick.
2018-10-07T22:50:48 < Hamilton> crt, I fear hell basically :(
2018-10-07T22:51:03 < catphish> Steffanx: it appeals to my cynical world view
2018-10-07T22:51:26 < catphish> lol @ hell
2018-10-07T22:52:30 < catphish> some religious' threats are more direct :)
2018-10-07T22:53:12 < catphish> i'm just glad that i can laugh at places where religion takes centre stage in politics
2018-10-07T22:53:14 < Hamilton> crt, I was much more religious a few years ago..but things like "problem of evil", "free expression", "historical controverseries about islam and its expansion" caused my faith to shrink
2018-10-07T22:53:36 < Hamilton> but I still fear hell very much
2018-10-07T22:53:46 < catphish> i'm a strongly opinionated atheist, i have a cat, she's lovely
2018-10-07T22:54:12 < Hamilton> Cracki, God?
2018-10-07T22:54:25 < catphish> Hamilton: this bus represents my views perfectly https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bf/Atheist_Bus_Campaign_Citaro.jpg/1200px-Atheist_Bus_Campaign_Citaro.jpg
2018-10-07T22:54:48 < Hamilton> Cracki, idk, I fear the threats
2018-10-07T22:54:56 < Thorn> http://www.onsemi.com/site/cdroms/micropackages/pdf-docs/onsemi/SOT563%20footprint-prof%23B3380.pdf
2018-10-07T22:55:00 < catphish> you should probably just not
2018-10-07T22:55:40 < Steffanx> but it was inspired.
2018-10-07T22:55:43 < catphish> the bible was written by all kinda of people, some parts of it are quite pleasant
2018-10-07T22:55:46 < Hamilton> Cracki, yes...that's the claim...
2018-10-07T22:55:53 < catphish> some of them were just mad
2018-10-07T22:56:35 < Steffanx> What game is that?
2018-10-07T22:56:39 < catphish> that is indeed an absurd claim, but there are christians who equally claim that every word of the bible is somehow the opinion of god
2018-10-07T22:56:58 < Hamilton> Cracki, And there it suggests a proof even! Basically there is a verse in quran : "If you doubt the authenticity of this text (that it is written by God or not), gather your followers and compose a Surah (Multiple of verse) similar to quran"
2018-10-07T22:57:05 < Hamilton> It's called Tahadi
2018-10-07T22:57:23 < Hamilton> And it is one of my causes of doubt about islam
2018-10-07T22:57:50 < Hamilton> Cracki, no, compose your own book
2018-10-07T22:57:56 < catphish> Hamilton: the book invites people to write their own?
2018-10-07T22:58:01 < Hamilton> catphish, yes
2018-10-07T22:58:15 < Hamilton> But it says you can not do it
2018-10-07T22:58:25 < catphish> interesting, i'm guessing not many alternative versions are accepted by religious leaders
2018-10-07T22:58:49 < Steffanx> Best part about the bible and the quran are the similarities in them. The have references to the same "happenings" and certain people with slightly different names.
2018-10-07T22:58:51 < Hamilton> Questions are 1- who is the referee? 2- What is the mesaure of *similarity* and such
2018-10-07T22:59:04 < Steffanx> So who copied who?
2018-10-07T22:59:04 < catphish> oh i see
2018-10-07T22:59:59 < catphish> isn't it insane to believe that of all the world religions, one of them is somehow "correct"
2018-10-07T23:00:05 < catphish> i mean, what are the chances :)
2018-10-07T23:00:14 < Hamilton> Steffanx, cause they are abrahimic religions?
2018-10-07T23:01:06 < catphish> anyway, as long as my country never uses ancient texts as a justification of modern laws, i'll be happy
2018-10-07T23:01:09 < Hamilton> catphish, islam mullas say that are religions were muslim of their era...but through time, their texts were corrupted
2018-10-07T23:01:14 < Steffanx> Is chance really a thing catphish? They all claim they are the right one. 
2018-10-07T23:01:17 < Hamilton> islam means submission
2018-10-07T23:02:15 < Steffanx> catphish, the UK has no christian background and still some rules that came from that?
2018-10-07T23:02:23 < Steffanx> dutchland for sure has.
2018-10-07T23:02:25 < Hamilton> I once chatted with this indian guy, who believed in resurrection and multiple lives after death
2018-10-07T23:02:37 < Steffanx> Holy cow! :D
2018-10-07T23:02:40 < catphish> Steffanx: i'm sure there are laws that originated from religious tecahings, but they would not be upheld on that basis in 2018
2018-10-07T23:02:59 < Steffanx> zyp is our norse god.
2018-10-07T23:03:06 < Steffanx> Talk to him.
2018-10-07T23:03:34 < Steffanx> I have crt. I believe in CRT.
2018-10-07T23:03:47 < catphish> i assume all religious must have a fallable god or multiple battling gods, no other way to explain all the suck in the world
2018-10-07T23:04:02 < Hamilton> Cracki, I once read a comment thread in youtube who bunch of north-europeans basically beileved in multiple gods and said jews destroyed our notion of gods through christianity
2018-10-07T23:05:10 < zyp> hey, where do you guys buy cat6?
2018-10-07T23:05:32 < zyp> installation
2018-10-07T23:06:12 < zyp> I guess you might say «locally», but anything here is pretty expensive per meter
2018-10-07T23:07:03 < zyp> yeah
2018-10-07T23:08:03 < zyp> I want two colors to easily tell which is which when I run two cables in a conduit, and probably like 150m of each, so I figure just buying two boxes might be most convenient
2018-10-07T23:10:24 < zyp> cheapest I've found for two boxes is ~$140 shipped, anybody know any cheaper?
2018-10-07T23:10:37 < zyp> norway
2018-10-07T23:11:02 < zyp> standard boxes are 305m
2018-10-07T23:11:20 < zyp> but I'd be happy with 150m or 200m too
2018-10-07T23:11:53 < Hamilton> Cracki, Idk, only fear of hell has remained in my faith...Maybe hell is not just burining in fire...I imagine some crazy shit may also happen in there
2018-10-07T23:12:52 < Hamilton> But all in all, if religion is about being nice to others, honor thy parents , help the poor and such I guess it is a good thing
2018-10-07T23:14:41 < Hamilton> There is other doubt in my life, that if I go for a PhD, could I find "technical non academic" work out there?
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2018-10-07T23:15:37 < Hamilton> Cracki, well for one thing, I can't get my head over it that gay marriages can have adopted babies...I mean what the hell>
2018-10-07T23:16:18 < Steffanx> pssh, you are not allowed to say that Hamilton. Not even in the western world
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2018-10-07T23:16:24 < Steffanx> fuck your opinion in this matter :P
2018-10-07T23:16:42 < Hamilton> Cracki, I mean does a PhD in a company, hold iron, bring up embedded stuff and programms them? or are there just considred doing "high level" stuff
2018-10-07T23:18:12 < Hamilton> Cracki, So project lead doesn't do these stuff does he?
2018-10-07T23:18:33 < Hamilton> Cracki, How can you desing things if you don't test/implement them
2018-10-07T23:19:05 < Steffanx> Or a phd works for a university and ends up writing Qt apps for babies in an ambulance. Together with a russian female.
2018-10-07T23:19:09 < Hamilton> Cracki, you mean he *orders APIs* and some engineers actually do stuff?? 
2018-10-07T23:19:23 < Hamilton> like let there be a serial debug module
2018-10-07T23:20:04 < Hamilton> And you like that?
2018-10-07T23:20:13 < Hamilton> How is this different than management?
2018-10-07T23:20:52 < Hamilton> going for PhD is kinda only cause for us to get out of here
2018-10-07T23:21:04 < Hamilton> And this job prospect is the reason I'm still here
2018-10-07T23:21:46 < Hamilton> Hmm..this lesser work is the actual work in my eyes
2018-10-07T23:22:57 < Hamilton> And for one thing, I know for a fact that many of my classmates who are studying PhD abroad, can not bring up a hello world in non-Matlab
2018-10-07T23:25:14 < Hamilton> Well I went for do-it-urself try hard mode in university and my grades plummeted...now my classmates who aint' know shit about practical stuff went abraod and now I'm here wasting my time on IRC discussing hell....#life_decisions
2018-10-07T23:28:17 < Hamilton> Cracki, Sie kommen aus Osterich?
2018-10-07T23:29:45 < Hamilton> ok, was a good chat about hell...bye for now :D
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2018-10-07T23:38:00 < Steffanx> let me check what the dutch make of it
2018-10-07T23:46:14 < zyp> Cracki, shield has nothing to do with category
2018-10-07T23:46:42 < zyp> I'm not concerned about crosstalk
2018-10-07T23:54:32 < zyp> https://www.ebay.com/itm/121230516070 this looks like the best deal
2018-10-07T23:58:29 < zyp> doesn't matter much to me where it comes from
2018-10-07T23:58:53 < karlp> crt: what's that dog shrine items screengrab from? what game?
--- Day changed Mon Oct 08 2018
2018-10-08T00:04:54 < karlp> what's 305m, 1000ft?
2018-10-08T00:05:02 < karlp> ah, yep :)
2018-10-08T00:07:31 < karlp> crt: um, which shadowrun? 
2018-10-08T00:08:10 < karlp> snes version?
2018-10-08T00:11:17 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/7I9gIz6.jpg
2018-10-08T00:11:26 < englishman> wild tendies out enjoying the autumn oolours
2018-10-08T00:14:44 < englishman> 75usd for about 1000ft of cat6 is decent no?
2018-10-08T00:15:55 < englishman> https://www.cablewholesale.com/products/network-phone/cat-6-cable-bulk/product-10x8-021th.php
2018-10-08T00:16:26 < englishman> 47 usd is a great price
2018-10-08T00:17:29 < englishman> hmm i think il get some
2018-10-08T00:17:33 < englishman> thx for the link
2018-10-08T00:17:38 < englishman> cheap shipping too
2018-10-08T00:18:38 < BrainDamage> is it legal to own a flamethrower there?
2018-10-08T00:18:48 < BrainDamage> and if so, could you hunt using one?
2018-10-08T00:18:59 < englishman> yes and no
2018-10-08T00:19:11 < englishman> hmm amazon is actually quite competitive on price
2018-10-08T00:19:15 < BrainDamage> I know some farmers use it to clean drainage ditches
2018-10-08T00:19:47 < englishman> yeah the flame tip is called the bonbonne
2018-10-08T00:19:48 < zyp> englishman, yeah, cheap shipping here too though the ebay global shipping program stuff
2018-10-08T00:20:09 < zyp> which has the added benefit that there won't be any additional customs handlings fees later
2018-10-08T00:20:33 < englishman> yeah it opens up all those racist usa sellers that won't sell to foreigners or only ship ups for $300 or whatever
2018-10-08T00:20:49 < englishman> a very welcome innovation
2018-10-08T00:21:03 < zyp> now I just need to decide whether I want to be boring and run white/grey, or fancy and run blue/orange
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2018-10-08T00:21:58 < zyp> or any other combination :p
2018-10-08T00:24:04 < englishman> this netflix show maniac says it is based off a norwegian series of the same name from 2014, though the synopsis seem completely different, have you heard of the original snow
2018-10-08T00:26:19 < zyp> huh?
2018-10-08T00:26:28 < zyp> what's the context?
2018-10-08T00:27:12 < englishman> no context
2018-10-08T00:27:18 < englishman> the new show is supposed to be good
2018-10-08T00:27:24 < zyp> what show?
2018-10-08T00:27:26 < englishman> maniac
2018-10-08T00:27:33 < zyp> oh
2018-10-08T00:27:49 < zyp> I read «netflix show maniac» as a guy that's a maniac about netflix shows
2018-10-08T00:28:00 < englishman> ah ues
2018-10-08T00:28:05 < englishman> i need to use the euroquotes
2018-10-08T00:28:20 < englishman> this netflix show «maniac» says it is based off a norwegian series of the same name from 2014, though the synopsis seem completely different, have you heard of the original snow
2018-10-08T00:28:32 < zyp> snow
2018-10-08T00:28:33 < BrainDamage> I too, read it the same as zyp did
2018-10-08T00:28:53 < englishman> punctuation is, overrated
2018-10-08T00:29:40 < BrainDamage> also, I never saw those kind of quotes except from zyp
2018-10-08T00:29:54 < zyp> and no, I haven't heard about it
2018-10-08T00:30:11 < zyp> BrainDamage, what quotes do you use in .it? “”?
2018-10-08T00:30:24 < BrainDamage> yup, slanted
2018-10-08T00:30:30 < englishman> the frenchies here use them too
2018-10-08T00:30:48 < BrainDamage> ' is strictly an apostrophe
2018-10-08T00:31:14 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Summary_table <- wikipedia has a reference
2018-10-08T00:32:04 < zyp> according to that table, they are standard in .it too
2018-10-08T00:32:15 < BrainDamage> never saw them once in any piece of text
2018-10-08T00:32:45 < zyp> http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/discorso-diretto_(Enciclopedia-dell'Italiano)/
2018-10-08T00:33:11 < BrainDamage> yeah, that's a pretty reputable encyclopedia 
2018-10-08T00:33:16 < zyp> to be fair, most norwegian people doesn't use «» either
2018-10-08T00:34:12 < zyp> I started with it when I were contributing to some norwegian wiki a long time ago and their guidelines included using those
2018-10-08T00:34:16 < englishman> interesting
2018-10-08T00:34:37 < zyp> and then I've kept using them because I like the way they nest like brackets
2018-10-08T00:34:47 < zyp> feels a lot more logical than ""
2018-10-08T00:35:18 < zyp> when quoting code they also make it obvious that they're not part of the code
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2018-10-08T00:44:27 < Steffanx> BrainDamage doesnt know breivik? :p
2018-10-08T00:45:15 < zyp> hmm
2018-10-08T00:45:32 < zyp> okay, I ordered those cables, figured there's no point wasting time to search for anything cheaper
2018-10-08T00:45:57 < zyp> next question, what keystone jacks are cheap and decent?
2018-10-08T00:46:23 < zyp> and slim enough to fit into this: https://www.fs.com/de/en/products/68554.html
2018-10-08T00:47:14 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: what
2018-10-08T00:47:24 < Steffanx> Copper Clad Aluminum, no full copper?
2018-10-08T00:47:50 < Steffanx> Oh, he used «» in his manifesto, BrainDamage 
2018-10-08T00:48:19 < zyp> Steffanx, oh, that's why they're cheap
2018-10-08T00:48:20 < zyp> heh
2018-10-08T00:48:49 < englishman> shouldnt affect anything
2018-10-08T00:48:57 < BrainDamage> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/philosophy.txt#L59
2018-10-08T00:49:03 < BrainDamage> that makes sense
2018-10-08T00:49:08 < Steffanx> Yes that indeed
2018-10-08T00:49:17 < englishman> every keystone jack i've purchased has been different. super annoying
2018-10-08T00:49:37 < zyp> hehe
2018-10-08T00:49:51 < zyp> I just wanna find some I like and then buy 100 of them
2018-10-08T00:50:00 < zyp> or something
2018-10-08T00:50:34 < zyp> maybe not 100, but they should be cheap enough it doesn't matter much if I buy a bunch of spares too
2018-10-08T00:56:16 < zyp> Steffanx, thanks for noticing, cancelled order
2018-10-08T00:56:52 < zyp> apparently copper clad aluminum is bad about flexing
2018-10-08T00:57:05 < zyp> which is almost a requirement
2018-10-08T00:57:13 < zyp> I mean
2018-10-08T00:57:31 < zyp> I will have some flexing, since the patch panel will be mounted on the door
2018-10-08T00:57:52 < zyp> I even debated using stranded cable
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2018-10-08T01:27:14 < Thorn> great, both my adcs are hugging the dc/dc from 2 sides
2018-10-08T01:27:24 < Thorn> 18 and 20 bits too
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2018-10-08T02:06:04 < jadew> I click on a show on netflix because in the trailer I see a space guy with a suit that is not illuminated on the inside, shining light straight into his eyes
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2018-10-08T02:06:12 < jadew> the very first scene: http://79.115.59.210/stuff/mars.png
2018-10-08T02:21:06 < jadew> the dialogue is decent so far
2018-10-08T02:21:16 < jadew> and Musk seems to play in it lol
2018-10-08T02:28:31 < Laurenceb124> REPRESENT!!
2018-10-08T02:28:34 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/PP21fDRC
2018-10-08T02:29:47 < Laurenceb124> https://www.autism.org.uk/get-involved/tmi/autism-hour.aspx
2018-10-08T02:30:43 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/jL5LXFMj the memes
2018-10-08T02:34:27 < Ultrasauce> http://bit.ly/1VEeDI5
2018-10-08T02:36:14 < kakimir> is mars a good series?
2018-10-08T02:36:23 < jadew> looks ok so far
2018-10-08T02:36:37 < jadew> minute 23
2018-10-08T03:21:39 < jadew> a bit too much documentary like
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2018-10-08T03:50:02 < Laurenceb124> george the poet
2018-10-08T03:50:31 < Laurenceb124> what an absolute knob
2018-10-08T03:52:39 < Laurenceb124> > British spoken-word artist
2018-10-08T03:52:42 < Laurenceb124> my sides
2018-10-08T03:56:22 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/d7gwFWFJ tfw
2018-10-08T04:02:00 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/F9XTLkL.gifv
2018-10-08T04:02:54 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/3kgcNn2K
2018-10-08T04:09:58 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/GkKoCc1.gifv
2018-10-08T04:14:17 < Laurenceb124> fuck
2018-10-08T04:14:25 < Laurenceb124> >(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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2018-10-08T06:50:41 < dongs> dickflix
2018-10-08T06:51:16 < dongs> < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/GkKoCc1.gifv is this terry davis
2018-10-08T06:51:58 < dongs> sup dickgirls
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2018-10-08T07:42:52 < dongs>  The password you provided has been reported as compromised due to re-use of that password on another service by you or someone else. GitHub has not been compromised directly. To increase your security, please change your password as soon as possible.
2018-10-08T07:42:56 < dongs> why, thanks github
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2018-10-08T08:02:16 < englishman> dongs: reminds me of an old troll password script, when signing up for x website, it tries your username and password on hundreds of websites. so when you enter a password, it says sorry, you are already using this password on twitter. etc
2018-10-08T08:03:26 < dongs> haha
2018-10-08T08:03:44 < dongs> thats pretty funny
2018-10-08T08:04:02 < dongs> acutally sounds like a legit thing to do
2018-10-08T08:06:40 < englishman> very
2018-10-08T08:06:51 < englishman> tho ethics are questionable
2018-10-08T08:07:45 < dongs> actually im pretty sure my shithub password is the same as my throwaway twater account
2018-10-08T08:08:55 < englishman> is there a cheap clamp meter that logs kwh
2018-10-08T08:09:49 < dongs> tehres somethingat dickstarer office
2018-10-08T08:09:53 < dongs> but im not sure if they're logging type
2018-10-08T08:09:55 < dongs> they're just some flukes
2018-10-08T08:12:00 < dongs> nah they're standalone
2018-10-08T08:12:17 < dongs> dickstarter proj is using fake kWh logging internally by measuring and using lookup tablesbased on what shit is on
2018-10-08T08:14:54 < dongs> Naomi Wu 机械妖姬
2018-10-08T08:14:54 < dongs> ‏
2018-10-08T08:14:54 < dongs>  
2018-10-08T08:14:54 < dongs> @RealSexyCyborg
2018-10-08T08:14:54 < dongs>  Oct 4
2018-10-08T08:14:56 < dongs> More Naomi Wu 机械妖姬 Retweeted Ho Ho
2018-10-08T08:14:59 < dongs> Honestly what kind of flag humping hillbilly dipshit follows a Chinese national and gets outraged that she thinks industrial espionage is a dick move and bad for innovation rather than the most heinous thing ever?
2018-10-08T08:15:03 < dongs> lo
2018-10-08T08:15:20 < dongs> dickgirl's boyfirend is working overtime writing rage english
2018-10-08T08:15:23 < dongs> on twatter
2018-10-08T08:26:45 < dongs> englishman: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000J1QNDI/
2018-10-08T08:27:15 < dongs> not realtime tho, you gotta pull the data off
2018-10-08T08:27:43 < englishman> hmm kinda gay already
2018-10-08T08:27:50 < dongs> thats hte cheapest
2018-10-08T08:27:58 < englishman> cheap clamp meters are $20
2018-10-08T08:28:10 < dongs> right.
2018-10-08T08:28:52 < englishman> https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Multimeter-Voltmeter-Transformer-Open-close/dp/B0775WRVNF/
2018-10-08T08:29:04 < englishman> this should work
2018-10-08T08:30:21 < englishman> tons of clones like this
2018-10-08T08:30:44 < englishman> is your dickstarter like that
2018-10-08T08:31:08 < dongs> no dickstarter is a proper fluke something clamp meter
2018-10-08T08:41:53 < dongs> haha dickgirl still blogs about gaytreon
2018-10-08T08:41:57 < dongs> its been months
2018-10-08T09:05:55 < dongs> found stffn
2018-10-08T09:05:57 < dongs> Some friends and I are planning a very ambitious overland journey by car to Asia. We would like to buy a car here in the Netherlands, and drive it to a certain destination far away in Asia, and sell it there. But research about driving your own car, and certainly what to do with it when you reach your destination is hard to come by.
2018-10-08T09:06:02 < dongs> One of the destinations we are interested in is Tokyo, Japan. Going there via Russia (via Sakhalin by ferry) or via China (ferry from there to Japan). Apart from tackling the Russian roads, getting the right permits (Sakhalin), this should be doable and not too difficult. But the big question is of course if it is possible to sell your car in Japan without paying extremly high fees when leaving the country 
2018-10-08T09:06:08 < dongs> by air. If this is not a real possibility, can you just "wreck" your car, like fake an accident, or drive it into the sea or a lake? What would the red tape be like, and does this involve extremely high fees too?
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2018-10-08T09:10:48 < englishman> lol
2018-10-08T09:11:03 < Steffanx> :)
2018-10-08T09:11:30 < englishman> does Nippon have a department of precrime
2018-10-08T09:16:15 < qyx> afaik the new skoda can go ~90kmh but they are limited here to 65kmh
2018-10-08T09:17:21 < qyx> no, 80kmh
2018-10-08T09:17:26 < qyx> we have these https://www.skoda.cz/en/products/tramcars/forcity-plus/
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2018-10-08T09:25:42 < cjbaird> Urbos 100's in Newcastle. No-one going to use them.
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2018-10-08T09:38:12 < zyp> dongs, where would you buy cat6? chinagirl happen to be able to source that cheaply?
2018-10-08T09:39:45 < zyp> crt, yeah, I don't want that
2018-10-08T09:40:11 < zyp> now I'm looking for the cheapest option that's 100% cu
2018-10-08T09:40:13 < dongs> zyp, you mean like a 350m spool?
2018-10-08T09:40:18 < dongs> or wahtever
2018-10-08T09:40:19 < zyp> yes
2018-10-08T09:41:13 < zyp> I found and ordered this shit last night: https://www.ebay.com/itm/121230516070
2018-10-08T09:41:43 < zyp> and then Steffanx remarked it was copper clad aluminum and I looked it up and realized it is shit
2018-10-08T09:42:28 < dongs> https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0010P69CC/ shit like this exists, but looks like your ebay link absolutely detroys it
2018-10-08T09:42:35 < zyp> yeah, but I don't want CCA
2018-10-08T09:42:40 < dongs> ic
2018-10-08T09:43:03 < dongs> 規格:CAT6対応(10BASE-T、100BASE-TX、1000BASE-T、1000BASE-TXに対応)
2018-10-08T09:43:04 < dongs> wat
2018-10-08T09:43:10 < zyp> apparently the aluminum makes it brittle and I need something that will stand up to a little bit of flexing
2018-10-08T09:43:15 < dongs> it doesnt even do 10000baset?
2018-10-08T09:43:29 < zyp> sure it does
2018-10-08T09:43:45 < dongs> what do you need cat6 for anyway
2018-10-08T09:43:47 < zyp> 10gbase-t is rated to 100m on cat6a and 55m on cat6 or something like that
2018-10-08T09:43:51 < dongs> my house is cat5e using that elecom shit
2018-10-08T09:43:58 < dongs> and gige works fine
2018-10-08T09:44:03 < zyp> is there really a significant difference?
2018-10-08T09:44:06 < dongs> nope
2018-10-08T09:44:07 < zyp> in price, I mean
2018-10-08T09:44:12 < dongs> ah, probly not at this point
2018-10-08T09:44:54 < zyp> I also figure either would work but if I'm gonna run a couple hundred meters of it now, might as well use cat6
2018-10-08T09:45:02 < dongs> is there no specification for CAT6 where it denotes whether its alu or coper?
2018-10-08T09:45:10 < dongs> cuz that seems like something that would be standreitzed
2018-10-08T09:45:32 < zyp> well, according to a claim I read yesterday, cat6 itself mandates copper
2018-10-08T09:45:34 < dongs> 全線銅線 seems toe be the keyword
2018-10-08T09:45:45 < zyp> so CCA is technically not compliant, apparently
2018-10-08T09:46:35 < dongs> hmm
2018-10-08T09:46:51 < zyp> but it's not like the sellers care about that
2018-10-08T09:47:55 < zyp> dongs, did you see the latest pics of my rack closet?
2018-10-08T09:48:05 < dongs> https://item.rakuten.co.jp/genesis-shop/6-z100m/
2018-10-08T09:48:06 < dongs> nope
2018-10-08T09:48:07 < dongs> i was off irc
2018-10-08T09:48:24 < dongs> i got into this coworking space in best korea and i finally have internet and a desk to put computer on
2018-10-08T09:48:29 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ovJMD.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Xfqyf.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/noP6Z.jpg
2018-10-08T09:48:32 < dongs> clicking
2018-10-08T09:49:08 < dongs> nice
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2018-10-08T09:50:19 < dongs> that jap link is like 40 bucks per 100m of all-copper
2018-10-08T09:50:36 < dongs> since it doesnt seem to be any specific jappu brand, its probly just some chink shit
2018-10-08T09:50:41 < dongs> chinagirl probly has and/or can get some
2018-10-08T09:51:43 < zyp> I'd like two boxes of different colors, so I can run two cables in each conduit and easily tell them apart
2018-10-08T09:52:21 < zyp> I probably only need like 150m of each, but if it's cheap enough I wouldn't mind buying two 300m boxes
2018-10-08T09:53:43 < dongs> https://image.rakuten.co.jp/genesis-shop/cabinet/zendou/cat6_z02.jpg that iage is too lowrez to see the chink source on the box lol
2018-10-08T09:53:56 < dongs> i can make out someshit co ltd made in <probably china>
2018-10-08T09:54:20 < dongs> need AI image enhancement
2018-10-08T09:54:22 < zyp> made in prc, I think
2018-10-08T09:54:28 < dongs> sounds about right
2018-10-08T09:55:49 < englishman> zyp you are probably best off going to a local shoppe selling boxes of cat6 even in the middle of nowhere like you are I'm sure you can find somewhere selling real stuff at an ok price
2018-10-08T09:57:20 < englishman> the keystones will probably be much harder to find
2018-10-08T09:59:37 < dongs> keystoner
2018-10-08T09:59:39 < zyp> englishman, already checked locally
2018-10-08T10:00:18 < englishman> does noone have cat6
2018-10-08T10:00:39 < englishman> maybe it's a sign that wifi has won
2018-10-08T10:00:46 < dongs> lol wifi
2018-10-08T10:00:51 < dongs> completely fucking uselss
2018-10-08T10:00:56 < zyp> sure they do, I just don't wanna pay $145 per box
2018-10-08T10:01:08 < zyp> and they only have white
2018-10-08T10:01:16 < dongs> zyp: https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i1/TB1kiwVNpXXXXbtXFXXXXXXXXXX_!!0-item_pic.jpg_430x430q90.jpg
2018-10-08T10:01:21 < englishman> isn't it going in the walls
2018-10-08T10:01:39 < zyp> 08:51:42 < zyp> I'd like two boxes of different colors, so I can run two cables in each conduit and easily tell them apart
2018-10-08T10:01:48 < englishman> dongs $40/100m is nearly the same price then
2018-10-08T10:02:12 < englishman> just label it like a pro
2018-10-08T10:02:27 < dongs> https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i4/2010057534/TB2BzP2Xmkc61BjSZFCXXc_7VXa_!!2010057534.jpg
2018-10-08T10:03:16 < dongs> zyp, chinaprice is around 50-60 for 200meters for the trash I linked
2018-10-08T10:03:21 < dongs> adn nocolor choce
2018-10-08T10:03:50 < englishman> label before pulling and stop making up fake requirements like jadew/beaky
2018-10-08T10:04:07 < dongs> https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i4/1960097917/TB2fv7UbmJjpuFjy0FdXXXmoFXa_!!1960097917.png
2018-10-08T10:04:13 < dongs> wow is that a cat6 requirement?
2018-10-08T10:04:16 < dongs> to have teaht gay shield
2018-10-08T10:04:20 < zyp> no
2018-10-08T10:04:21 < englishman> no
2018-10-08T10:04:23 < dongs> how do you crimp that shit
2018-10-08T10:04:24 < zyp> I want UTP
2018-10-08T10:04:40 < dongs> oh UTP being unshieded k
2018-10-08T10:04:40 < englishman> crimp what
2018-10-08T10:04:59 < dongs> oh right the wall shit goes into patch panel
2018-10-08T10:05:20 < dongs> fuck off its been like 10 years since i put my shit into the walls
2018-10-08T10:06:30 < dongs> like englishman said just draw a dick on the end before you push it in
2018-10-08T10:06:36 < dongs> then you dont need ifferent colors
2018-10-08T10:06:38 < englishman> and done
2018-10-08T10:06:57 < dongs> all my shite is lime green
2018-10-08T10:07:02 < dongs> and i had no problem finding htem
2018-10-08T10:07:13 < dongs> i have one of those separateable lan testers
2018-10-08T10:07:31 < dongs> i could just stick one end into a finished socket and then test random ones until i hit hte right port on the panel
2018-10-08T10:07:36 < englishman> like dongs sometimes zyp is so pragmatic and sometimes autistic to the breaking point
2018-10-08T10:08:01 < zyp> yup
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2018-10-08T10:31:21 < Lux> stuff like that is pretty useful for finding cables: https://www.banggood.com/Bside-FWT11-RJ11-RJ45-Telephone-Wire-Tracker-Tracer-Toner-Ethernet-LAN-Network-Cable-Tester-Detector-p-1061272.html
2018-10-08T10:32:44 < Lux> you just have to hook up one end end it'll work wireless on the other
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2018-10-08T10:58:37 < dongs> time to get outa here
2018-10-08T10:58:38 < dongs> bbl
2018-10-08T11:30:05 -!- tctw_ is now known as tctw
2018-10-08T11:51:20 < kakimir> doge
2018-10-08T12:03:37 < cjbaird> Cracki: https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/j-burrows-wireless-pattern-mouse-ripple-jbpattmse1 ..and the same for about 30 other products like it
2018-10-08T12:06:06 < kakimir> my wonderbox headphone DAC decided to go fucked
2018-10-08T12:06:18 < kakimir> huge static in left channel
2018-10-08T12:06:21 < kakimir> huge
2018-10-08T12:07:03 < kakimir> I left it to my computer for a night and when I woke up I could hear the static not even wearing those headphones
2018-10-08T12:09:13 < kakimir> the store is 2km away
2018-10-08T12:09:16 < kakimir> ffuu
2018-10-08T12:09:23 < kakimir> how do I cover 2km
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2018-10-08T13:00:33 < Steffanx> Welcome Kumpel from aussieland.
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2018-10-08T13:24:52 < jadew> any ideas on a good & cheap HDMI capture card?
2018-10-08T13:26:17 < jpa-> i've used blackmagicdesign cards at work, but i'm not sure if they qualify as cheap at $200 price
2018-10-08T13:26:43 < jadew> yeah, wouldn't say that's cheap
2018-10-08T13:26:55 < Ultrasauce> theyre as cheap as you want to go before they get real shit imo
2018-10-08T13:27:47 < jadew> really? what's the limiting factor here?
2018-10-08T13:28:04 < jadew> they probably just stream the HDMI data through an encoder and then to the PC
2018-10-08T13:29:11 < jpa-> limiting factor is probably whether it has been tested and developed enough to work with various kinds of hdmi sources
2018-10-08T13:29:40 < jpa-> (and of course the quality of the encoder chips will vary also, some cheap-ass h264 encoder chips have mjpeg-level quality)
2018-10-08T13:30:44 < BrainDamage> h264 is buttfuck insane
2018-10-08T13:30:55 < BrainDamage> there's so many profiles, so many options
2018-10-08T13:31:15 < BrainDamage> I don't think you'll find one single device or software that supports them all
2018-10-08T13:32:07 < jpa-> if you think h264 has too many options, just look at h265 :P
2018-10-08T13:33:08 < BrainDamage> h265 makes the c++ standard looks small
2018-10-08T13:33:38 < Ultrasauce> https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAG1K7372802 this one might be ok, dont use the software that comes with it
2018-10-08T13:35:57 < jpa-> not much cheaper than  https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/decklink/techspecs/W-DLK-06
2018-10-08T13:36:13 < Ultrasauce> well that's cannabux but yeah
2018-10-08T13:36:37 < jpa-> ah, missed that
2018-10-08T13:36:41 < jpa-> why can't they just write CAD
2018-10-08T13:37:57 < cjbaird> I've got a funeral to attend tomorrow. So excited! :D
2018-10-08T13:38:41 < BrainDamage> is it your worst enemy?
2018-10-08T13:38:53 < jadew> another one?
2018-10-08T13:39:55 < cjbaird> No, 50% of my IRL friends died (i.e: I had two of them..) But this will be the first I've gone too.
2018-10-08T13:40:48 < jadew> see, that's another reason I didn't get into ham radio
2018-10-08T13:40:52 < cjbaird> My BFF in high school died in a motorbike sprang in 1996, but he rudely did that when I was living in poverty interstate, so I couldn't go to it. Both parents are currently alive, too...
2018-10-08T13:41:56 < jadew> I've been to lots of funerals
2018-10-08T13:42:16 < cjbaird> Luckly, my housemate is a Marriage Celebrant.. and does the occassional Funeral (..not this one), so I've had Pro advice on what to do. :)
2018-10-08T13:43:18 < jadew> just don't be like "this is so exciting!"
2018-10-08T13:43:46 < cjbaird> Being involved with Amateur Radio means this'll be a regular thing now.. (Seems like every other month, someone 'silent keys', and the other guys get to go. Being a newb, I haven't known any of those dead guys before..)
2018-10-08T13:44:07 < jadew> cjbaird, yep, it's a very high risk hobby, statistically speaking
2018-10-08T13:44:43 < cjbaird> <- rides motorbike in a country where it isn't popular. Knows this.
2018-10-08T13:45:30 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2018-10-08T13:47:21 < cjbaird> Although 'death by misadventure', like falling off a tower or sparking themselves, is still reasonably rare.. "Average age 70" is what you probably intended..
2018-10-08T13:48:21 < cjbaird> My "DO NOT WANT" t-shirt at the funeral? No.
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2018-10-08T13:56:26 < kakimir> in here amateur radio people have sayings like "If it doesn't have pieces of sausage it's only a burp"
2018-10-08T14:06:27 < cjbaird> The first meet of the club I'm with now had guys boasting about their RF burns. Peter, retired Navy, took the prize-- full-body kilowatt microwaves while working in front of a ship's dish.
2018-10-08T14:07:32 < cjbaird> He got married and had a daughter after, so didn't get sterilized...
2018-10-08T14:09:04 < cjbaird> Somehow, someone managed to key the transmitter in spite of all the safety interlocks..
2018-10-08T14:19:17 < kakimir> did he feel the kilowatt?
2018-10-08T14:21:08 < zyp> jadew, there's a bunch of cheap stuff, especially if you only need to do 1080p30, 1080p60 costs more but I think there's some decent options there too
2018-10-08T14:21:28 < zyp> all the cheap stuff seems to be usb3
2018-10-08T14:22:02 < zyp> I think I borrowed some avermedia thing once
2018-10-08T14:23:00 < jadew> zyp, thanks, I'll look it up
2018-10-08T14:23:42 < zyp> basically, if you want cheap look for something marketed for game capture, that's where the consumer volume is
2018-10-08T14:24:02 < zyp> anything marketed for pro video is naturally gonna cost more
2018-10-08T14:24:23 < jadew> ah, good thinking, thanks
2018-10-08T14:25:06 < jadew> I'll use my webcam for now, but I have to buy one just in case I'll have to do this again
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2018-10-08T15:08:48 < kakimir> interesting
2018-10-08T15:08:58 < kakimir> simple stuff like driving a led causes headache
2018-10-08T15:09:26 < kakimir> ended up changing the transistor
2018-10-08T15:09:33 < kakimir> led was constantly on
2018-10-08T15:09:53 < kakimir> not only transistor but type of transistor
2018-10-08T15:10:10 < kakimir> maybe I should change to BJT
2018-10-08T15:11:41 < kakimir> so the gate was leaking so much that it turned on LED
2018-10-08T15:12:11 < kakimir> drain to gate
2018-10-08T15:12:43 < kakimir> I have series resistor to gate
2018-10-08T15:12:45 < kakimir> 10k
2018-10-08T15:13:26 < kakimir> this thing where I thought FET will do came back to bite me in ass
2018-10-08T15:14:25 < kakimir> have you had any similar experiences with fets?
2018-10-08T15:14:38 < kakimir> or then there was faulty fets
2018-10-08T15:15:18 < jpa-> eh, so how much was it leaking and what does the datasheet specify?
2018-10-08T15:16:41 < kakimir> 2N7002P
2018-10-08T15:17:38 < kakimir> jpa-: what is the field I should be looking for?
2018-10-08T15:18:11 < kakimir> jpa-: do you drive your leds with BJT or FET?
2018-10-08T15:18:15 < jpa-> gate leakage
2018-10-08T15:18:21 < jpa-> either, you are just failing something else
2018-10-08T15:18:45 < kakimir> there was 1.8V across series resistor
2018-10-08T15:19:44 < jpa-> maybe you've just burned it with ESD
2018-10-08T15:20:15 < kakimir> I took new one from tape
2018-10-08T15:20:28 < kakimir> or whatever that black thing is called
2018-10-08T15:20:32 < jpa-> then it's wrong way around
2018-10-08T15:20:40 < kakimir> well it cannot be
2018-10-08T15:23:16 < kakimir> GSD
2018-10-08T15:23:23 < kakimir> footprint
2018-10-08T15:23:38 < kakimir> all my NMOS sot23 are GSD
2018-10-08T15:24:46 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YYTfjRmTd3UaEjbs6j9gtsCCbPVx9F6Q/view?usp=drivesdk
2018-10-08T15:25:23 < kakimir> right side is 7002P for green
2018-10-08T15:25:36 < kakimir> left side is changed to 2V7002L
2018-10-08T15:26:36 < kakimir> pulldown is 2k and series resistor is 10k
2018-10-08T15:26:48 < kakimir> led is sourced from 5V
2018-10-08T15:26:54 < kakimir> and mcu is around 2.5V
2018-10-08T15:28:03 < kakimir> jpa-: would you use this type of configuration for driving leds?
2018-10-08T15:28:14 < jpa-> sure, should work
2018-10-08T15:28:28 < kakimir> maybe fets are fuk'd
2018-10-08T15:28:32 < jpa-> so what is the voltage you are seeing on gate pin?
2018-10-08T15:28:32 < kakimir> lemme measure
2018-10-08T15:28:48 < kakimir> jpa-: around 1.8v before I changed
2018-10-08T15:29:14 < BrainDamage> you know that 7002 are incredible ESD sensitive right?
2018-10-08T15:29:23 < BrainDamage> they are the only shift I've ever fried with ESD
2018-10-08T15:29:36 < kakimir> really?
2018-10-08T15:29:44 < zyp> I haven't seen that on my stuff
2018-10-08T15:29:49 < kakimir> BrainDamage: all 7002?
2018-10-08T15:30:19 < jpa-> kakimir: so MCU side is at 0V and gate is pulling higher?
2018-10-08T15:30:31 < kakimir> jpa-: yes
2018-10-08T15:30:42 < kakimir> now both are around 65-70mV at gate
2018-10-08T15:30:45 < jpa-> sounds ESD fried yeah
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2018-10-08T15:31:10 < kakimir> I thought these parts would have some resistance to esd
2018-10-08T15:31:18 < kakimir> I have not even like zapped these
2018-10-08T15:31:36 < karlp> how did you choose 7002p anyway?
2018-10-08T15:31:36 < jpa-> discrete fets are usually not ESD protected in any way, unlike ICs
2018-10-08T15:31:58 < kakimir> karlp: parameters and price
2018-10-08T15:32:27 < zyp> I have like 13 2N7002s on arcin and I haven't heard of anybody killing any of them yet
2018-10-08T15:32:55 < zyp> on the other hand, I have gate wired directly to mcu pin, so maybe the ESD protection in the MCU takes care of protecting them :p
2018-10-08T15:33:29 < karlp> what parameters and price?
2018-10-08T15:34:58 < kakimir> zyp: I pulled 2x new ones from tape
2018-10-08T15:34:59 < karlp> I would have thought ao3400 would be better on .... everything?
2018-10-08T15:36:05 < kakimir> karlp: I don't want "any" current bellow certain threshold
2018-10-08T15:36:20 -!- _abc_ [~usre@unaffiliated/ccbbaa] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-08T15:36:22 < kakimir> and low continuous current
2018-10-08T15:36:56 < _abc_> Hello. How much are value line / low end stm32f103t8 etc usually in Europe? I find prices around $3/ea + taxes in small qty (1-50). Is this the real price level?
2018-10-08T15:36:59 < karlp> so what parameter are you looking for exactly then?
2018-10-08T15:37:03 < kakimir> because as continuous current becomes bigger more it leaks at low gate voltages
2018-10-08T15:37:13 < kakimir> karlp: I just eyeballed graphs in datasheets
2018-10-08T15:37:23 < kakimir> and continuous current
2018-10-08T15:37:25 < karlp> _abc_: if you're asking about small quantities, yes, it's "real" ? what are you really asking
2018-10-08T15:37:34 < zyp> _abc_, doesn't sound too unreasonable
2018-10-08T15:37:56 < _abc_> Just getting my bearings on real price levels. The local distrib here tends to have a cut, sometimes not a small one.
2018-10-08T15:38:17 < kakimir> iirc. 7002 had pretty high response to gate voltage
2018-10-08T15:38:37 < _abc_> I did that before but it is not meaningful for my low qty purchases.
2018-10-08T15:38:53 < zyp> _abc_, T shounds like an uncommon size though
2018-10-08T15:38:57 < _abc_> And I am not buying parts for projects from ali/ebay etc. Not the key parts, at least.
2018-10-08T15:38:58 < zyp> sounds*
2018-10-08T15:39:10 < _abc_> zyp: I think I meant C8T6 or such
2018-10-08T15:39:14 < zyp> I'd expect C or R to be cheaper
2018-10-08T15:39:17 < zyp> ah
2018-10-08T15:39:33 < _abc_> $3 is a little on the high side for C8 right?
2018-10-08T15:39:37 < _abc_> I have that feeling.
2018-10-08T15:39:45 < zyp> depends where you buy it
2018-10-08T15:39:57 < zyp> I'd expect the big distributors to be around there
2018-10-08T15:40:08 < zyp> from china you can probably get it under $1
2018-10-08T15:40:22 < _abc_> Budgetary price at stmicro is 2.05 to 2.2 for 10000
2018-10-08T15:40:43 < _abc_> $3.5 for ones is not unreasonable but unfotunately I have to add 20% vat to that here.
2018-10-08T15:40:49 < zyp> I don't use F1 so I don't have any real world numbers to compare to
2018-10-08T15:40:58 < kakimir> *phew* luckily I did change design in another project so it doesn't have discrete fets in power switching but nice set of passives in regulator EN pin
2018-10-08T15:41:02 < _abc_> I'd be very wary of buying from China.
2018-10-08T15:41:08 < zyp> why?
2018-10-08T15:41:15 < _abc_> Who knows what "to be destroyed" batch reappears on aliexpress. 
2018-10-08T15:41:23 < karlp> kakimir: still can't see any reasona why you wouldn't just us ao3400.
2018-10-08T15:41:30 < _abc_> I do not buy key parts from non chain distributors.
2018-10-08T15:41:37 < zyp> _abc_, so what? are you making medical equipment?
2018-10-08T15:41:38 < _abc_> Haohmaru: I am not complaining.
2018-10-08T15:42:09 < _abc_> zyp: does not matter, my time and good name are worth $1 extra for something which contributes 3-5% to the product's price.
2018-10-08T15:42:26 < zyp> fair, in that case $3 sounds reasonable
2018-10-08T15:42:27 < karlp> soundsd like you're overthinking it then
2018-10-08T15:43:08 < _abc_> There's gouging and there's gouging. I don't know anyone whose commercial profit rate is 50% in this business, yet the distribs is just that. $2 chip sold for $3.5
2018-10-08T15:43:28 < zyp> what? 50% margins isn't unreasonable
2018-10-08T15:43:47 < _abc_> Huh. On parts?! Seriously? He's moving them from one packaging to another.
2018-10-08T15:44:10 < karlp> and taking all the orders and customer service
2018-10-08T15:44:17 < zyp> maintaining stock has financial costs
2018-10-08T15:44:19 < _abc_> 20-30% is more the norm here for production parts. For repair/single use/ speciality it can be 100% to 900%
2018-10-08T15:44:19 < kakimir> karlp: true
2018-10-08T15:44:38 < _abc_> karlp: no customer service, web site interface only
2018-10-08T15:44:59 < kakimir> but I can't even see shit from graphs because those graphs are in 3A steps
2018-10-08T15:45:08 < _abc_> I have no complaints on how they work, but it's a free world, one buys from someone else if it's not ok
2018-10-08T15:45:45 < _abc_> Speaking of, Mouser's cost is 30% higher than the local distrib's...
2018-10-08T15:46:32 < karlp> sounds like you've got it all sorted out then.
2018-10-08T15:46:43 < _abc_> Yes I have a clearer picture heh.
2018-10-08T15:46:56 < kakimir> karlp: if I have 100mV at gate led might be visible
2018-10-08T15:47:22 < kakimir> it may conduct a current of milliamp or whatever
2018-10-08T15:47:25 < _abc_> Farnell is cheaper than Mouser but still 10% above the local distrib.
2018-10-08T15:47:51 < karlp> kakimir: you're looking at Sub-threshold drain current as a function of
2018-10-08T15:47:53 < karlp> gate-source voltage
2018-10-08T15:47:55 < karlp> ?
2018-10-08T15:48:03 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-08T15:48:11 < jadew> _abc_, we must be buying different things
2018-10-08T15:48:17 < jadew> for me mouser is much cheaper than farnell
2018-10-08T15:48:22 < _abc_> jadew: ?? Hi, you're in .ro too, no?
2018-10-08T15:48:25 < jadew> also keeps a larger stock
2018-10-08T15:48:29 < jadew> _abc_, yeah
2018-10-08T15:48:45 < karlp> kakimir: how do you get 100mV on the gate?
2018-10-08T15:48:49 < _abc_> jadew: Really? Compare price on lowest offer for stm32f103c8 on these two see who wins?
2018-10-08T15:49:07 < _abc_> jadew: do you use tme.eu at all? Their price is lowest.
2018-10-08T15:49:11 < _abc_> For now
2018-10-08T15:49:15 < jadew> yeah, I use tme whenever possible
2018-10-08T15:49:25 < jadew> but they don't have many of the things I need
2018-10-08T15:50:12 < jadew> in last week's order I had an assortment of 0.1% resistors of non standard values and they were 50 to 100% more expensive on farnell (I think even more on some of them)
2018-10-08T15:50:43 < _abc_> Sure, those are specilities, what did you expect.
2018-10-08T15:50:44 < jadew> tme didn't have any of them hehe
2018-10-08T15:50:51 < kakimir> karlp: with series resistor maybe
2018-10-08T15:51:00 < _abc_> tme is a smaller company catering to lower end users.
2018-10-08T15:51:07 < kakimir> it's already 70mV
2018-10-08T15:51:27 < _abc_> I once had to order via a company sets of 0.1% resistors for a project and the Farnell baglets came from like 6 countries.
2018-10-08T15:51:39 < kakimir> if gate leaks a bit more with beefier fet it might get closer to 100mV
2018-10-08T15:51:41 < _abc_> It's written on each what country packed it.
2018-10-08T15:52:01 < karlp> what leakage from where is giving you 100mV on the gate?
2018-10-08T15:52:15 < _abc_> The gate is NOT to be left floating at any time. 
2018-10-08T15:52:32 < jadew> yeah, that's common with my farnell orders too
2018-10-08T15:52:41 < _abc_> 100k pulldown is recommended even in storage unless you can be sure the driver provides a leak to ground at all times.
2018-10-08T15:53:03 < kakimir> karlp: from drain to gate?
2018-10-08T15:53:16 < _abc_> jadew: used ro.digikey.com yet?
2018-10-08T15:53:24 < jadew> _abc_, no, you?
2018-10-08T15:53:30 < _abc_> I know people who did.
2018-10-08T15:53:57 < _abc_> And the price for stm32f103c8 is good!
2018-10-08T15:53:58 < jadew> I think I wanted to at some point, but I don't think it made sense, price wise
2018-10-08T15:53:58 < kakimir> I could just remove series resistor but as I now know how easily fets get fucked I rather not
2018-10-08T15:54:03 < _abc_> https://www.digikey.ro/products/en?keywords=stm32f103c8
2018-10-08T15:54:21 < _abc_> Shipping can be a bit of a bummer but iirc they void transport cost above some limits.
2018-10-08T15:54:59 < _abc_> 12.15 RON/ea for 2400 pieces in a reel . Uhh.
2018-10-08T15:55:17 < _abc_> (that's pretty much exacly USD3 for you non .ro people)
2018-10-08T15:55:25 < jadew> _abc_, going to TIB?
2018-10-08T15:55:42 < _abc_> I don't think so. Do you need an invite?
2018-10-08T15:55:49 < jadew> it's invite based?
2018-10-08T15:56:01 < jadew> ah, you're asking
2018-10-08T15:56:02 < _abc_> Certain days are so, others you pay.
2018-10-08T15:56:10 < jadew> I don't think it is
2018-10-08T15:56:13 < jadew> I'd like to go
2018-10-08T15:56:19 < _abc_> So with an invite you get in for free, and on days when the public is not milling about
2018-10-08T15:56:37 < jadew> you have invites? :D
2018-10-08T15:56:41 < _abc_> No...
2018-10-08T15:57:27 < jadew> well, I want to go, if you decide to go as well, maybe we can meet and have a beer or something
2018-10-08T15:57:30 < _abc_> https://www.tibco.ro/vizitatori/
2018-10-08T15:57:40 < karlp> kakimir: ao3400 has vgsth for Ids at 250uA at 1.05V, so... you should be fine :)
2018-10-08T15:57:51 < _abc_> maybe yes. The best part of Romexpo is Pavilion D (or E). The huge beer hall :)
2018-10-08T15:57:52 < karlp> sure, the 2n7002p has it at 1.75V.
2018-10-08T15:57:56 < _abc_> Not really, I was kidding.
2018-10-08T15:57:58 < _abc_> brb
2018-10-08T15:58:47 < jadew> _abc_, it opens in two days
2018-10-08T15:58:54 < jadew> https://www.tib.ro/
2018-10-08T15:59:22 < kakimir> karlp: okay thanks
2018-10-08T15:59:32 < jadew> I guess we were talking about different TIBs
2018-10-08T15:59:35 < kakimir> it might be okay
2018-10-08T16:00:42 < jadew> _abc_, vampi-the-frog said he's coming
2018-10-08T16:19:37 < _abc_> I thought he's a she with a nick like that
2018-10-08T16:19:40 < _abc_> jadew: 
2018-10-08T16:19:58 < jadew> on IRC?
2018-10-08T16:20:46 < _abc_> vampi the frog sounds like a girl. I'm an older guy, I don't dig millenials.
2018-10-08T16:21:10 < jadew> how old are you?
2018-10-08T16:21:17 < _abc_> more than half a century young
2018-10-08T16:21:31 < jadew> hah, took you for a lot younger
2018-10-08T16:22:18 < _abc_> "bilete online" has no indication of price
2018-10-08T16:22:38 < _abc_> tib and tibco are one and the same thing.
2018-10-08T16:22:56 < _abc_> tibco is the cover organization which operates the halls and the grounds
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2018-10-08T16:23:24 < jadew> ah, the site you linked mentioned consumer goods 
2018-10-08T16:23:25 < _abc_> tibco=romexpo
2018-10-08T16:23:31 < jadew> I thought they're somewhat different
2018-10-08T16:23:42 < _abc_> it's one of the permanent exhibitions
2018-10-08T16:23:54 < _abc_> consumer goods fair
2018-10-08T16:24:02 < jadew> I see, didn't know about that
2018-10-08T16:24:13 < _abc_> It's been around since 1980 or before
2018-10-08T16:24:39 < jadew> don't know why anyone would want to visit something like that
2018-10-08T16:24:41 < _abc_> https://www.romexpo.ro/istoric/ from 1962
2018-10-08T16:24:59 < _abc_> jadew: it's okay, there are a lot of automation and factory control related things there
2018-10-08T16:25:36 < _abc_> tib 1st venue occured in 1970
2018-10-08T16:26:22 < _abc_> Since 1981 tib and tibco are fused into one 
2018-10-08T16:26:55 < jadew> sounds like something I should have known
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2018-10-08T16:27:25 < jadew> only went there while in highschool at the PC exhibitions
2018-10-08T16:27:40 < _abc_> Heh. There were exhibitions there since I don't know when.
2018-10-08T16:28:08 < _abc_> It pays to get into the circuit somehow and get free invitations to most you're interested in if you can.
2018-10-08T16:29:28 < jadew> I'd first have to go to one and see if it's even worth the trouble, I doubt it's anything like the ones in other countries
2018-10-08T16:29:54 < _abc_> Heh hang around pavilion H (the beery one) and see what you can hook up with...
2018-10-08T16:30:12 < jadew> heh
2018-10-08T16:30:25 < _abc_> https://www.berariah.ro/
2018-10-08T16:31:36 < jadew> I see they'll have Michael Jackson this month
2018-10-08T16:32:01 < _abc_> His 3d hologram maybe? I'm more interested in AC/DC if at all. Someone else's hologram there.
2018-10-08T16:32:22 < _abc_> I think it's Oktoberfest themed now
2018-10-08T16:33:17 < kakimir> how would you abbreviate number of bits for macro?
2018-10-08T16:33:34 < _abc_> huh?
2018-10-08T16:33:41 < jadew> what do you mean kakimir?
2018-10-08T16:33:47 < Steffanx> nob
2018-10-08T16:33:52 < kakimir> NO_BIT, BIT_NO, N_BITS?
2018-10-08T16:33:58 < jadew> ah
2018-10-08T16:34:01 < Steffanx> KAKI_BITS
2018-10-08T16:34:05 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-08T16:34:37 < kakimir> what is NO abbreviation for?
2018-10-08T16:34:49 < _abc_> Not Obvious
2018-10-08T16:34:52 < kakimir> there is no O in number
2018-10-08T16:34:55 < jadew> _abc_, well, if you decide you want to hang around with some millenials (assuming vampi comes too), let me know
2018-10-08T16:35:08 < jadew> I think he's a bit younger than I am
2018-10-08T16:35:14 < jadew> not by much tho
2018-10-08T16:35:17 < _abc_> jadew: whippersnappers.
2018-10-08T16:35:32 < _abc_> I'll look at what's at the exhibit first and if I know someone there.
2018-10-08T16:36:57 < _abc_> https://www.tib.ro/conditii-de-participare/ jadew see "carduri de acces pietonale"
2018-10-08T16:37:38 < catphish> my fury with DHL continues
2018-10-08T16:38:02 < catphish> they just love making up fees :)
2018-10-08T16:38:02 < _abc_> jadew: https://www.tib.ro/termeni/ this is what you really want
2018-10-08T16:39:34 < jadew> http://www.romexpo.ro/bilete/ro/home
2018-10-08T16:39:46 < _abc_> https://www.tib.ro/vizitatori/ 20RON/person/day
2018-10-08T16:39:47 < jadew> you can probably just buy them at the entrance
2018-10-08T16:39:51 < _abc_> yes
2018-10-08T16:40:39 < _abc_> The trick is to go when the people who matter are there, and not the milling crowds and the useless sales people at the booths who are usually clueless
2018-10-08T16:40:53 < _abc_> brb
2018-10-08T16:41:02 < jadew> how do you know when that is?
2018-10-08T16:44:35 < kakimir> I used B_BITS
2018-10-08T16:44:39 < kakimir> N_BITS
2018-10-08T16:45:11 < _abc_> jadew: it's usually 1-2 days before official opening for the public
2018-10-08T16:46:55 < _abc_> Strange TIB should have been in September.
2018-10-08T16:52:58 < kakimir> register seems to be keyword
2018-10-08T16:53:36 < kakimir> accidentally left one comment uncommented and register word turned into purple
2018-10-08T16:55:41 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2018-10-08T17:01:16 < BrainDamage> once I accidentally left one register assignment and the load ballast turned purple
2018-10-08T17:03:09 < Thorn> kakimir: also restrict
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2018-10-08T17:06:23 < kakimir> interesting
2018-10-08T17:06:33 < kakimir> I leave review in alibaba
2018-10-08T17:06:54 < kakimir> alibaba says that supplier can review and modify review once
2018-10-08T17:07:09 < kakimir> interesting concept
2018-10-08T17:09:59 < kakimir> I wonder if modify means to remove it or actually modify
2018-10-08T17:10:45 < jadew> kakimir, does it even show up if it's negative? I think not
2018-10-08T17:11:03 < kakimir> wouldn't make sense
2018-10-08T17:11:08 < kakimir> to show it
2018-10-08T17:11:12 < jadew> at least on aliexpress, if it's negative they hide it for one or two months, until the seller responds :)
2018-10-08T17:11:13 < kakimir> in this logic
2018-10-08T17:11:57 < jadew> if he doesn't respond, he can scam quietly for the entire duration, then delete the listing and make a new one when the feedback comes in
2018-10-08T17:12:50 < kakimir> interesting
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2018-10-08T17:38:47  * Steffanx throws a bunker buster at Haohmaru
2018-10-08T17:38:52 < Laurenceb124> (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
2018-10-08T17:42:18 < tctw> dongs ping
2018-10-08T17:42:31 < tctw> how do you usually make your microcontroller/STM32 symbols in altium? do you make multi-part parts?
2018-10-08T17:42:36 < kakimir> I think one worker here had a outburst about me in warehouse.. interesting workplace dynamics
2018-10-08T17:45:03 < kakimir> I'm not sure but I kinda felt they had loud conversation about me
2018-10-08T17:49:34 < Steffanx> Lol what was wrong kakimir ?
2018-10-08T17:49:40 < Steffanx> What did/didnt you do?
2018-10-08T17:58:30 < kakimir> I come and go however I like as my jubb is not time critical
2018-10-08T17:58:56 < kakimir> and I generally live my own life in company because I'm kind of one man show
2018-10-08T17:59:07 < kakimir> *live
2018-10-08T17:59:44 < kakimir> I think I have few persistent haters that speak out their mind
2018-10-08T18:01:31 < kakimir> maybe all of them
2018-10-08T18:02:07 < Laurenceb124> my sides https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/young-mum-kicked-head-left-13373712
2018-10-08T18:02:17 < Laurenceb124> >A young mum beaten up after a Brexit meeting
2018-10-08T18:02:43 < tomeaton17> Brexit means brexit.
2018-10-08T18:03:07 < Laurenceb124> Brexit means beatit
2018-10-08T18:03:32 < tomeaton17> The student union at my university tried to ban clapping. what has the world come to
2018-10-08T18:03:49 < Steffanx> Lolwut?
2018-10-08T18:03:57 < Steffanx> And where have you been mr eaton?
2018-10-08T18:04:22 < tomeaton17> Steffanx, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-45717841
2018-10-08T18:04:47 < tomeaton17> In protest about 100 people turned up outside the SU and started clapping lol
2018-10-08T18:04:49 < Laurenceb124> inb4 they are trolling us epic style
2018-10-08T18:05:11 < Laurenceb124> kek
2018-10-08T18:05:48 < Laurenceb124>  *triggered*
2018-10-08T18:05:54 < tomeaton17> They back tracked and said they are only suggesting it..
2018-10-08T18:07:01 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/F1CrQx97
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2018-10-08T18:09:26 -!- boB_K7IQ [boB_K7IQ@c-73-193-6-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2018-10-08T18:10:12 < Laurenceb124> alba getting trolled so bad right now
2018-10-08T18:13:31 < Laurenceb124>  "so, you want a european superstate?"
2018-10-08T18:16:58 < mawk> use my host Laurenceb124 
2018-10-08T18:17:01 < mawk> support the revolution
2018-10-08T18:17:04 < mawk> https://pix.watch/
2018-10-08T18:17:06 < mawk> just learn some french
2018-10-08T18:17:37 < mawk> the text says I AES-encrypt the image and don't log the key so you can't cold-extract the images
2018-10-08T18:17:41 < jadew> that's always the catch with the french
2018-10-08T18:17:47 < mawk> :(
2018-10-08T18:18:20 < mawk> I also strip exif data
2018-10-08T18:18:30 < mawk> so you can upload right away your dick pics and we won't be able to track your home
2018-10-08T18:18:46 < jadew> strip to db?
2018-10-08T18:19:06 < mawk> :(
2018-10-08T18:19:21 < mawk> I log every connection attempt except the image URL
2018-10-08T18:19:36 < jadew> hmm, I bet youtube has dick rocognition software
2018-10-08T18:19:37 < mawk> but most people come from Tor so the ip is always 127.0.0.1 and the UA is the same fake firefox UA
2018-10-08T18:19:51 < jadew> really? people use tor?
2018-10-08T18:19:59 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-08T18:20:40 < jadew> I don't know how I'd feel, knowing that someone with something to hide is accessing the internet from my IP address
2018-10-08T18:20:58 < jadew> that's how tor works, isn't it?
2018-10-08T18:21:22 < jadew> you proxy through other tor users
2018-10-08T18:21:54 < mawk> there are many parts
2018-10-08T18:22:05 < mawk> and by default no you don't agree to be an exit node when you just access the network
2018-10-08T18:22:09 < mawk> you have to opt-in
2018-10-08T18:22:14 < mawk> and I'm not an exit node
2018-10-08T18:22:17 < jadew> ah, that's good
2018-10-08T18:22:20 < mawk> my ip would get insta-banned from everywhere
2018-10-08T18:22:22 < jadew> I thought it's automatic
2018-10-08T18:22:45 < jadew> and how do they track you?
2018-10-08T18:23:00 < mawk> when you're an exit node ? there are public registries
2018-10-08T18:23:09 < mawk> official or not I don't know, but it's easy to get a list
2018-10-08T18:23:10 < jadew> no, I mean when you're an user
2018-10-08T18:23:14 < jadew> there has to be a way to track everyone
2018-10-08T18:23:17 < mawk> ah
2018-10-08T18:23:21 < mawk> theoretically there is no way
2018-10-08T18:23:29 < mawk> but the NSA gets its way around by side-channels
2018-10-08T18:23:39 < mawk> like exploiting <canvas> tricks
2018-10-08T18:23:45 < mawk> trying to match a clear-web IP with a tor session
2018-10-08T18:23:51 < mawk> for deanonymization
2018-10-08T18:24:26 < jadew> they also probably run most of the exit nodes
2018-10-08T18:24:41 < mawk> they considered that but I don't think so
2018-10-08T18:24:45 < mawk> the most illegal stuff isn't on the clear web
2018-10-08T18:24:56 < mawk> just in the tor network itself, and then that doesn't travel through exit nodes
2018-10-08T18:25:12 < mawk> they could control entry nodes but it's the same thing,you can't get much info excepted that someone is accessing the tor network
2018-10-08T18:25:25 < mawk> you can't know which hidden service the user is requesting
2018-10-08T18:25:26 < jadew> yeah, I highly doubt that
2018-10-08T18:26:29 < jadew> your traffic is probably more heavily watched once you start using that than without
2018-10-08T18:26:39 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-08T18:26:55 < mawk> well if they controlled entry nodes they have a list of clear IPs to match with recorded anonymous sessions
2018-10-08T18:27:01 < mawk> and by correlation they can deanonymize you
2018-10-08T18:27:02 < mawk> but that's theory
2018-10-08T18:27:11 < mawk> in reality most Tor drug lords fall because of stupidity
2018-10-08T18:27:14 < mawk> eg username reuse, etc
2018-10-08T18:27:30 < mawk> or because of hacking of the hidden service
2018-10-08T18:27:44 < mawk> as for the pedo house "play pen" or something
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2018-10-08T18:51:41 < BrainDamage> mawk: you can do timing attacks to deanonimize both hidden services and exit node connections
2018-10-08T18:52:03 < BrainDamage> you don't even need to control the nodes themselves, just the infrastructure that connects them
2018-10-08T18:52:06 < mawk> you mean hidden services connections ?
2018-10-08T18:52:11 < mawk> not the hidden services themselves
2018-10-08T18:52:16 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-08T18:52:41 < mawk> well even the hidden services themselves actually, if you control the infrastructure 
2018-10-08T18:52:57 < mawk> intuitively is seems infeasible but numbers grow quick in statistics
2018-10-08T18:53:36 < BrainDamage> if you have a view of the whole network you can just initiate sessions and see where they end up and correlate
2018-10-08T18:53:45 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-08T18:53:47 < BrainDamage> because ultimately the hidden service will always be connected
2018-10-08T18:54:15 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-08T18:54:31 < mawk> but because of the onion routing property, it seems that huge computing power is needed for that correlation
2018-10-08T18:54:37 < BrainDamage> yup
2018-10-08T18:54:40 < mawk> you'd have to correlate each layer with the next
2018-10-08T18:55:00 < BrainDamage> and you'd need to be able to monitor about half the internet, in terms of size
2018-10-08T18:56:02 < mawk> it's a bit like the 50%+1 attack on bitcoin
2018-10-08T18:56:05 < mawk> but more feasible
2018-10-08T18:56:13 < BrainDamage> 50%+1 almost happened
2018-10-08T18:56:26 < BrainDamage> due to large mining pools
2018-10-08T18:56:35 < mawk> in china I guess
2018-10-08T18:56:38 < BrainDamage> yes
2018-10-08T18:56:58 < BrainDamage> when it almost reached there, people who genuinely had large stakes of money invested started withdrawing their partecipation
2018-10-08T18:56:59 < mawk> china exploiting that seems very plausible 
2018-10-08T18:57:51 < mawk> I've seen news like soldering pirate chips into server motherboards at the factory before expedition to the US, so why not exploiting their mining leadership
2018-10-08T19:00:17 -!- _abc_ [~usre@unaffiliated/ccbbaa] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-08T19:04:57 < Steffanx> Fake news.
2018-10-08T19:05:13 -!- sterna [~Adium@h-90-120.A137.corp.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2018-10-08T19:06:29 < mawk> it's a bad thing about the chinese, it can't be fake news
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2018-10-08T19:14:10 < Sadale> right. only bad thing about america can be fake news.
2018-10-08T19:16:56 < kakimir> wtf there is 2 types of '-' signs
2018-10-08T19:18:13 < kakimir> took me like 2minutes to realize
2018-10-08T19:19:21 < jadew> dongs, did you buy that amplifier yet?
2018-10-08T19:19:51 < jadew> for the SDR
2018-10-08T19:57:04 < catphish> kakimir: more than 2
2018-10-08T20:00:04 < catphish> there's ascii's hyphen-minus, but also hyphen, minus, and 3 types of dash
2018-10-08T20:01:17 < catphish> - ‐ − ‒ – —
2018-10-08T20:02:28 < catphish> i build an sdr transmitter a while back, it sucked, but it was fun
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2018-10-08T20:08:18 < Steffanx> hows the nfc thing? Havent heard you talk about it for a while now
2018-10-08T20:11:48 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boBK7IQ@98.142.162.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-08T20:11:54 < catphish> Steffanx: last status was that 1) i decided to stop receiving a time signal by RF and 2) use a TCXO for timekeeping and accept the inaccuracy, i have ordered a new prototype based on this, but chinese holiday has meant it's been delayed a couple of weeks
2018-10-08T20:12:18 < catphish> at the same time i've been thinking about how to do communication between ST95HF and a phone, and i'm really not sure how best to do that
2018-10-08T20:13:22 < catphish> i've been distracted by building a pnp machine, but hopefully this prototype will arrive this week and i can get stuck in writing the software for it and working out how to interface it with android
2018-10-08T20:13:38 < catphish> thanks for asking :)
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2018-10-08T20:32:05 < kakimir> hmm wtf
2018-10-08T20:32:11 < kakimir> my DAC has unfucked itself
2018-10-08T20:32:57 < kakimir> no there it is
2018-10-08T20:37:50 < Steffanx> hah ok catphish
2018-10-08T20:41:39 < Steffanx> i tried, it didnt work.
2018-10-08T20:42:15 < Steffanx> this german hated me for it.
2018-10-08T20:43:02 < emeb> what's wrong with the DAC?
2018-10-08T20:43:31 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Cl47Ad0wDjC2OG705qM7f0c4bA3Y0iUF/view?usp=sharing listen.. loudness unknown use caution
2018-10-08T20:43:36 < Steffanx> nothin with the DAC, but with kakimir on the other hand? :P
2018-10-08T20:44:34 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boBK7IQ@98.142.162.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2018-10-08T20:45:43 < emeb> so it plays for a while then cuts out randomly?
2018-10-08T20:46:48 < kakimir> no it's me
2018-10-08T20:48:57 < kakimir> first I demonstrate noise it makes when there is no sound to play
2018-10-08T20:49:34 < kakimir> after that I took second recording to demonstrate how the noise appears to actual playback eventually
2018-10-08T20:49:56 < catphish> nb. if anyone knows how to interface an st95hf with a smartphone i'd love to hear it :)
2018-10-08T20:50:11 < kakimir> my washing machine is that sound in the background
2018-10-08T20:50:19 < catphish> i'm worried that it doesn't support official p2p modes, so i might have to do something hacky
2018-10-08T20:53:04 < kakimir> you are afraid you will hack it
2018-10-08T20:53:47 < kakimir> "cannt.. controll.. HACKING!!"
2018-10-08T20:54:58 < catphish> most likely the phone simulates a card, i'm sure it'll maybe work fine
2018-10-08T20:56:21 < zyp> catphish, st95hf should support p2p, but I haven't tried it yet
2018-10-08T20:56:34 < zyp> there's also card emulation mode for phones that supports that, but I haven't tried that yet eiter
2018-10-08T20:56:38 < zyp> either
2018-10-08T20:57:33 < catphish> zyp: i'm pretty sure it doesn't support any p2p modes, some marketing documents say it does, but nothing in the datasheet afaict
2018-10-08T20:58:13 < catphish> i was a little confused by that
2018-10-08T20:59:50 < zyp> IIRC p2p support is the big difference between st95hf and the older cr95hf
2018-10-08T21:00:02 < zyp> I went with st95hf for that reason
2018-10-08T21:01:01 < catphish> see the table at https://www.st.com/en/nfc/st25-nfc-rfid-readers.html?querycriteria=productId=SC1540
2018-10-08T21:01:16 < catphish> looks like you need a different one to do p2p :(
2018-10-08T21:01:26 < catphish> (an ST25)
2018-10-08T21:02:11 < zyp> that table is not complete
2018-10-08T21:02:12 < catphish> this page claims ST95HF does p2p, but it's just plain wrong afaik https://www.mouser.co.uk/new/stmicroelectronics/stm-st95hf-transceiver/
2018-10-08T21:02:42 < zyp> remember that p2p is part of ISO 18092, which ST95HF datasheet claims it does
2018-10-08T21:02:56 < zyp> even though that table doesn't state so
2018-10-08T21:03:20 < catphish> there's an answer here: https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009XkX1dSAF/st95hf-stm32l071-how-can-i-implement-a-peer-to-peer-connection
2018-10-08T21:03:33 < catphish> they talk about "proprietary p2p" mode
2018-10-08T21:03:50 < catphish> but reading the datasheet i don't see how you'd do it :(
2018-10-08T21:04:16 < catphish> i'd be very interested to know how it might work though
2018-10-08T21:05:09 < catphish> also, the default mode of my application is to read tags, so i'm not really sure how it would switch to a p2p mode, or whether it would be better just to have the phone simulate a tag and let the st95hf stay in the same reader mode
2018-10-08T21:07:29 < catphish> zyp: let me know if you do anything in that area, i'd be interested to hear
2018-10-08T21:09:32 < zyp> sure
2018-10-08T21:14:27 < zyp> although I agree, card emulation mode on the phone sounds like the best bet for your application
2018-10-08T21:20:18 < kakimir> interestings
2018-10-08T21:20:35 < kakimir> internets says that win10 1809 potentially fucks your files
2018-10-08T21:20:41 < kakimir> it's in the news
2018-10-08T21:23:08 < kakimir> new win update strategy?
2018-10-08T21:23:59 < catphish> didn't they pull the dangerous update
2018-10-08T21:25:12 < Steffanx> yes they did
2018-10-08T21:26:08 < Steffanx> Another good lesson to learn people to do make backups
2018-10-08T21:26:20 < Steffanx> -do
2018-10-08T21:32:46 < _abc_> m$ has an excellent alpha tester network. Real users. Let loose new tech, watch for screaming. Or silence (network stack killed or no booting)
2018-10-08T21:33:01 < _abc_> Enviable. AND the alpha testers pay for this privilege.
2018-10-08T21:36:27  * _abc_ just noticed uk turned a man into a woman. Dr. Who. Sigh.
2018-10-08T21:36:48 < zyp> haha, are people still raging about that?
2018-10-08T21:36:49 < _abc_> Off topic.
2018-10-08T21:37:44 < _abc_> No, I am somewhat shocked. Probably the bbc is profiting from the fact that the Dr. Who audience is now in an age group where their parents are buried and unlikely to call them all at once about the "deviation" their kids watch.
2018-10-08T21:39:52 < zyp> heh
2018-10-08T21:41:08 < Steffanx> First time i hear about it. And i feel indifferent about it :P
2018-10-08T21:48:49 < Steffanx> Kumpel, sleep deprivation is bad.
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2018-10-08T21:50:26 < Steffanx> Stroopwafel.
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2018-10-08T21:51:48 < Steffanx> yeah read about it too, no clue
2018-10-08T21:56:32 < qyx> uh jlink linux software is fully free
2018-10-08T21:56:37 < qyx> even without a registration
2018-10-08T21:56:41 < aandrew> yep
2018-10-08T21:56:45 < Steffanx> but is it open sores?
2018-10-08T21:56:51 < aandrew> nope
2018-10-08T21:56:54 < qyx> no, doesnt matter
2018-10-08T21:56:59 < Steffanx> :P
2018-10-08T21:57:00 < aandrew> but you can use the jaylink driver with openocd if that's what you're after
2018-10-08T21:57:00  * qyx downloads a .deb installer
2018-10-08T21:57:13 < qyx> I can, but there is no cortex A5 support
2018-10-08T21:57:25 < qyx> otherwise the openocd seems to work with the microchip jlink
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2018-10-08T21:57:58 < Steffanx> important farnell baskets into mouser works surprisingly when. Just to figure out mouser is more expensive
2018-10-08T21:58:05 < Steffanx> *important
2018-10-08T21:58:21 < Steffanx> damnit
2018-10-08T21:58:23 < Steffanx> import.
2018-10-08T21:58:33 < Steffanx> how i can i make the same mistake twice.
2018-10-08T21:58:50 < zyp> haha
2018-10-08T21:59:28 < qyx> Connecting to J-Link via USB...Updating firmware:  J-Link OB-SAM3U128 V3 compiled Jul 12 2018 12:17:50
2018-10-08T21:59:31 < qyx> Replacing firmware: J-Link OB-SAM3U128 V3 compiled Mar  8 2016 11:21:43
2018-10-08T21:59:33 < qyx> fuk, works
2018-10-08T21:59:34 < qyx> closedsores
2018-10-08T22:00:29 < qyx> J-Link>hjalp Unknown command. '?' for help.
2018-10-08T22:00:30 < Steffanx> what A5 is qyx toying with?
2018-10-08T22:00:42 < qyx> atsama5d
2018-10-08T22:02:05 < Steffanx> the "new" ones with DDR2-RAM in the same package?
2018-10-08T22:02:21 < qyx> yep
2018-10-08T22:05:41 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-08T22:07:29 < qyx> in the same package
2018-10-08T22:07:41 < zyp> I think it's PiP though
2018-10-08T22:08:00 < Steffanx> They call it SiP 
2018-10-08T22:08:50 < Steffanx> (not that it says anything about how they did it :P )
2018-10-08T22:09:32 < Steffanx> http://www.glyn.com.au/microcontroller-ddr-onboard/ that image .. 
2018-10-08T22:10:06 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2018-10-08T22:10:37 < Steffanx> ya
2018-10-08T22:10:47 < Steffanx> down to 32
2018-10-08T22:11:57 < Steffanx> What are you doing with it qyx? No linux i assume?
2018-10-08T22:12:12 < Steffanx> They've been around for a long time, without it.
2018-10-08T22:31:04 < qyx> Steffanx: trying to get jlink to work
2018-10-08T22:31:15 < qyx> to flash linux to the qspi
2018-10-08T22:35:36 < qyx> ok, openwrt boots
2018-10-08T22:36:23 < Steffanx> :)
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2018-10-08T23:34:16 < mawk> I flashed my e-cigarette
2018-10-08T23:34:20 < mawk> it feels weird
2018-10-08T23:35:08 < mawk> at the very beggining of the ecig frenzy I never thought they would become that full of features
2018-10-08T23:35:08 < catphish> what does it do now?
2018-10-08T23:35:25 < mawk> I had a cigarette-lookalike that just atomized a blend of glycerine, water and nicotine
2018-10-08T23:35:40 < mawk> very simple thing, almost no electronics
2018-10-08T23:35:49 < mawk> it stopped being buggy, catphish 
2018-10-08T23:35:53 < mawk> also it added a shitton of feature
2018-10-08T23:36:24 < catphish> ah ok, i have one, it seems pretty smart, power-time curves, coil auto calibration
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2018-10-08T23:36:25 < mawk> being able to customize the discharge curve of the battery, the power curves for the heating element, the temperature-resistance curve of the resistive wire, etc
2018-10-08T23:36:56 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-08T23:41:38 < emeb> Nothing so simple that you can't make it more complicated.
2018-10-08T23:42:30 < catphish> :)
2018-10-08T23:45:11 < Steffanx> vaper alert!
2018-10-08T23:47:15 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-18b9d954.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
--- Day changed Tue Oct 09 2018
2018-10-09T00:01:49 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:8070:a19d:2500:ed76:8331:c36c:72e8] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2018-10-09T00:06:07  * emeb gets the vapers
2018-10-09T00:15:24 < Steffanx> emeb strikes me as a pipe guy
2018-10-09T00:24:02 < englishman> emeb strikes me as a teetotaller 
2018-10-09T00:25:23 < Steffanx> Good day englishman 
2018-10-09T00:25:32 < englishman> hello
2018-10-09T00:30:02 < Ultrasauce> so to speak
2018-10-09T00:31:39 < englishman> haha google+ is shutting down
2018-10-09T00:31:49 < Steffanx> finally
2018-10-09T00:31:49 < englishman> took long enough
2018-10-09T00:31:53  * emeb doesn't smoke/vape/etc
2018-10-09T00:32:07 < emeb> but likes some alcohol 
2018-10-09T00:48:17 < Steffanx> yw
2018-10-09T00:50:42 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X50qwgBuXpY
2018-10-09T00:50:43 < englishman> cool
2018-10-09T00:55:31 < Steffanx> Pippi Långstrump \o/
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2018-10-09T01:15:42 < sync> resonance_catastrophe.mp4
2018-10-09T01:49:55 < kakimir> englishman: luckily it has been designed by german engineers
2018-10-09T01:53:32 < kakimir> my dac uses more power than my laptop
2018-10-09T01:55:58 < kakimir> not sure but it's hot
2018-10-09T01:56:07 < kakimir> my computer is not
2018-10-09T01:56:29 < kakimir> and it has no fans - laptop I mean
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2018-10-09T02:13:14 < jadew> interesting, I turned on my compressor and the reverse power protection on my sig gen got triggered
2018-10-09T02:13:33 < jadew> they're at least 2 meters away
2018-10-09T02:17:29 < Ultrasauce> ground fault?
2018-10-09T02:17:56 < jadew> don't know, could be a high frequency spike caused by the motor turning on
2018-10-09T02:18:46 < jadew> I wonder if I should be worried about this
2018-10-09T02:18:57 < Ultrasauce> try it on a gfci outlet
2018-10-09T02:19:25 < jadew> I don't have one
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2018-10-09T02:41:58 < _abc_> jadew: compressor at 3AM? Tss. Trying to make new friends among neighbors?
2018-10-09T02:42:33 < jadew> _abc_, it's a very silent one :)
2018-10-09T02:43:15 < jadew> I knew I was going to use in the middle of the night, so I bought accordingly
2018-10-09T02:44:43 < jadew> looks like this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Airbrush-Compressor-With-Tank-AS186-Oil-free-/121191758039
2018-10-09T02:44:48 < jadew> super silent
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2018-10-09T02:45:15 < jadew> not very powerful
2018-10-09T02:57:35 < emeb> heh - got tctw's uGFX running on a Xilinx Zynq devboard w/ ILI9341 LCD. Seems to work pretty nicely. Wasn't too terribly hard to do the import.
2018-10-09T02:58:24 < emeb> He's got a decent wiki w/ lots of examples for different toolflows.
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2018-10-09T03:04:11 < BrainDamage> uguuFx*
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2018-10-09T04:44:57 < jadew> does this work for you? https://ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de/blender/release/Blender2.79/blender-2.79b-windows64.msi
2018-10-09T05:03:20 < englishman> Tenable Research has discovered several vulnerabilities in RouterOS, an operating system used in MikroTik routers, the most critical of which would allow attackers to potentially gain full system access.
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2018-10-09T05:25:42 < cjbaird> Hmm. Got some personal details of the guy who died 'that I'm probably happier not knowing'-- the dude married a 18yo girl when he was 36. Why do Fundie Christians get that privledge and not me. :/
2018-10-09T05:26:17 < cjbaird> (Knew his wife was young, but not that young..)
2018-10-09T05:27:06  * cjbaird gets no loli. no loli ever.
2018-10-09T05:43:32 < chrono__> hey, i'm seeing a lot of ADC noise on my STM32F070 board: https://pasteboard.co/HHAwcxz.png
2018-10-09T05:44:21 < chrono__> here i'm measuring the signal from the phototransistor of an IR proximity sensor, and gradually moving my hand away from the sensor
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2018-10-09T05:45:23 < chrono__> the measurements have characteristics of DNL, and the noise appears to get worse near the top of the measurement range
2018-10-09T05:45:34 < chrono__> any ideas for cause/solutions?
2018-10-09T05:50:56 < emeb_mac> how well have you filtered / bypassed the Vref / AVdd to the MCU?
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2018-10-09T05:52:34 < chrono__> well i've got Vdd tied to Vdda, which goes through a 100 nF to ground
2018-10-09T05:53:10 < chrono__> i haven't got any bypass on the signal line
2018-10-09T06:06:12 < emeb_mac> chrono__: It's a pretty good idea to make sure that Vdda & Vref+ are "quiet" - I usually tie them together, then put a 0.1uf + 1uf bypass on them and then tie that to Vdd thru a small resistor (10ohm) or ferrite bead inductor.
2018-10-09T06:07:05 < emeb_mac> and a 0.01uf cap on the analog input channels is also helpful - prevents the signal voltage from sagging when the ADC samples it.
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2018-10-09T06:10:59 < chrono__> interesting, thanks!
2018-10-09T06:13:56 < emeb_mac> chrono__: finally, overall PCB layout can have a big effect on the ADC performance. I've found that a 4-layer board with solid GND plane helps to keep the ADC results noticeably quieter.
2018-10-09T06:15:54 < chrono__> thanks for that too. are the symptoms i'm seeing (missing codes, noise increasing with input value) common for these kinds of design issues?
2018-10-09T06:16:05 < chrono__> or could it be something with the ADC configuration in code?
2018-10-09T06:16:24 < emeb_mac> chrono__: I'd be surprised if it was a software issue.
2018-10-09T06:16:53 < emeb_mac> chrono__: OTOH - what is the sampling window setting you're using?
2018-10-09T06:17:05 < emeb_mac> Sometimes longer windows can help
2018-10-09T06:17:59 < chrono__> i've got sConfig.SamplingTime = ADC_SAMPLETIME_239CYCLES_5, which i believe is the longest sampling possible
2018-10-09T06:18:31 < emeb_mac> chrono__: OK - good. Unless you're trying to run fast it's better to use the longest window possible.
2018-10-09T06:19:34 < emeb_mac> chrono__: and you've made sure that the ADC clock you're using is within the frequency range that the datasheet specifies?
2018-10-09T06:19:57 < emeb_mac> sometimes it's possible to accidentally overclock the ADC and that can affect its behavior
2018-10-09T06:22:24 < chrono__> i'm just using the HSI14 for the ADC, which i believe is the dedicated clock for this peripheral
2018-10-09T06:24:12 < chrono__> with ADC_CLOCK_ASYNC_DIV1
2018-10-09T06:27:53 < emeb_mac> should be fine then
2018-10-09T06:30:25 < chrono__> emeb_mac: i added a 0.01 uF cap on the input channel, no change unfortunately: https://pasteboard.co/HHAP2iB.png
2018-10-09T06:31:09 < chrono__> i'll take a look at the supply lines next
2018-10-09T06:32:45 < emeb_mac> chrono__: good luck - signal integrity issues are difficult to track down.
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2018-10-09T09:34:36 < emeb_mac> Haohmaru: nice catfeet
2018-10-09T09:36:21 < emeb_mac> paws then - more general
2018-10-09T09:37:02 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-09T09:37:12  * emeb_mac misses his polydactyl cat w/ supernumerary toes...
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2018-10-09T09:41:05 < emeb_mac> https://www.flickr.com/photos/56315069@N00/108149012/
2018-10-09T09:42:33 < emeb_mac> yw
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2018-10-09T10:38:24 < Steffanx> Silence is good, crt.
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2018-10-09T11:06:09 < Thorn> https://www.instagram.com/p/BotHbrahwdT/
2018-10-09T11:09:30 < Thorn> https://www.instagram.com/p/BotADmyAiEI/
2018-10-09T11:10:02 -!- PeterM [bgdwiepp@115-69-25-80-cpe.spintel.net.au] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-09T11:10:08 < cjbaird> I was just sticking neddles into strawberries I bought today, as you do ...then I lost track of which strawberry had the needle in it. 
2018-10-09T11:10:49 < cjbaird> *needles
2018-10-09T11:11:07 < BrainDamage> when I was a kid people glued razor blades with chewing gum on water slides
2018-10-09T11:11:59 < BrainDamage> and when I was teen, multiple teenagers had the "hobby" of throwing rocks from bridges on the highway traffic's windshields
2018-10-09T11:12:18 < Steffanx> Razor blades on the inside of a beer crate handle was popular here in dutchlabd
2018-10-09T11:12:52 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
2018-10-09T11:15:11 < cjbaird> The strawberry thing blew-up here in Australia just recently. Crashed the entire strawberry market for the year. 
2018-10-09T11:15:13 -!- rajkosto [~Rajko@212.200.65.85] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-09T11:19:49 < cjbaird> My thoery was some fucked-over slave backpacker fruit picker getting some revenge..
2018-10-09T11:19:50 -!- Rajko [~Rajko@cable-178-149-113-218.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-09T11:20:14 < zyp> was even mentioned in the norwegian news a couple of weeks ago
2018-10-09T11:20:48 < zyp> :(
2018-10-09T11:22:03 < cjbaird> (My needle test was playing with the metal detector.. just in case Scott Morrison is reading.. -_-)
2018-10-09T11:23:28 < cjbaird> Srawbs https://imgur.com/a/f6OpYKv
2018-10-09T11:23:48 -!- rajkosto [~Rajko@212.200.65.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-09T11:37:39 < kakimir> is it better to use uint16_t or uint_least16_t?
2018-10-09T11:37:47 < kakimir> in cortex platforms
2018-10-09T11:38:03 < zyp> how long is a rubber band?
2018-10-09T11:38:13 < kakimir> long
2018-10-09T11:38:31 < kakimir> it stretches
2018-10-09T11:38:42 < zyp> which of those to use depends completely on what you want to achieve
2018-10-09T11:39:33 < kakimir> hey but smart thing for cross platform code would be probs something like uint8_t -> uint_least8_t
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2018-10-09T11:40:02 < zyp> not if you don't think through why you do that
2018-10-09T11:40:25 < kakimir> let it be uint16_t or uint32_t on cortex platform
2018-10-09T11:40:49 < kakimir> and uint8_t on 8bit platform
2018-10-09T11:41:05 < veverak> it would not be a smart thing
2018-10-09T11:41:08 < veverak> it depends on context
2018-10-09T11:41:10 < zyp> I'd expect any relevant platform to at least support uint8_t, uint16_t and uint32_t, and uint_least8_t, uint_least16_t and uint_least32_t are just aliases for the same, respectively
2018-10-09T11:41:25 < veverak> if I wrote highly packed data structure
2018-10-09T11:41:47 < veverak> that uses uint8_t itnernally because that's only thing that makes logically sense and it mades 50% of the data structure
2018-10-09T11:41:52 < veverak> *makes
2018-10-09T11:41:53 < zyp> the point of the leastX-types is "I want the smallest type that can hold at least X bits"
2018-10-09T11:41:56 < veverak> (attributes of uint8_t)
2018-10-09T11:42:06 < veverak> and you change that to uint_least8_t
2018-10-09T11:42:12 < veverak> I would kick you and delete your commit
2018-10-09T11:42:14 < veverak> :)
2018-10-09T11:43:06 < zyp> I'd argue that since no common platform doesn't already support both 8, 16 and 32-bit types, using the leastX types are not useful in practice
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2018-10-09T11:43:24 < zyp> the fastX types would be more worthwhile
2018-10-09T11:43:42 < veverak> yup
2018-10-09T11:43:46 < veverak> and only where it makes sense
2018-10-09T11:44:23 < zyp> if you are debating between uint16_t and uint_fast16_t, you should use the former if you need the wrapping behavior, the latter if you don't
2018-10-09T11:44:47 < zyp> uint_fast16_t would most likely be uint32_t on 32-bit platforms
2018-10-09T11:45:01 < zyp> Haohmaru, that's not the point
2018-10-09T11:45:32 < kakimir> Haohmaru: I know
2018-10-09T11:45:45 < kakimir> but I want code to optimize on any platform automatically
2018-10-09T11:45:47 < zyp> Haohmaru, the point is that you know the size of your data, but when you're writing portable code, the register sizes might vary between platforms
2018-10-09T11:46:37 < zyp> on 32-bit platforms, operating on 32-bit types is faster, if you specify a smaller type the compiler needs to add extra instructions to enforce wrapping
2018-10-09T11:46:59 < zyp> correct
2018-10-09T11:47:08 < zyp> the leastX-types are not relevant
2018-10-09T11:47:24 < kakimir> least types don do shit?
2018-10-09T11:47:31 < zyp> they are only useful if you have a platform that for some reason only can do e.g. 8-bit and 32-bit types, not 16-bit
2018-10-09T11:47:47 < zyp> least16 would in that case be 32
2018-10-09T11:48:40 < zyp> Haohmaru, the standard is more specific than that
2018-10-09T11:48:49 < zyp> "No other integer type exists with lesser size and at least the specified width."
2018-10-09T11:49:31 < kakimir> well if I need only uint8_t
2018-10-09T11:49:38 < kakimir> but I don't mind it being bigger
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2018-10-09T11:49:46 < kakimir> issue?
2018-10-09T11:50:01 < zyp> kakimir, you probably want to use the fastX types instead then
2018-10-09T11:50:03 < jpa-> zyp: surprisingly many DSPs don't support 8-bit datatypes; but yeah, i guess that counts as "not common"
2018-10-09T11:50:16 < kakimir> zyp: why?
2018-10-09T11:50:28 < zyp> jpa-, exactly, this shit only becomes relevant on weird DSP archs
2018-10-09T11:50:41 < jpa-> i ended up adding support for platforms without uint8_t to nanopb a few years back, but i haven't figured how to test for it :P
2018-10-09T11:50:45 < kakimir> how do I know what uint_least8_t results into on my platform?
2018-10-09T11:51:02 < jpa-> printf("%d\n", sizeof(uint_least8_t))
2018-10-09T11:51:07 < jpa-> or just look in the header
2018-10-09T11:51:15 < zyp> kakimir, if uint8_t exists at all on your platform, uint_least8_t will be the same
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2018-10-09T11:51:33 < kakimir> then it's no good
2018-10-09T11:51:33 < zyp> while uint_fast8_t will probably be the same size as the working registers
2018-10-09T11:51:49 < zyp> again
2018-10-09T11:51:55 < kakimir> I don't want uint8_t on my cortex platform
2018-10-09T11:52:01 < zyp> leastX = the smallest type that can hold at least X bits
2018-10-09T11:52:10 < zyp> fastX = the fastest type that can hold at least X bits
2018-10-09T11:52:35 < jpa-> looks like on my x64, uint_fast8_t is still 8-bit
2018-10-09T11:52:56 < zyp> probably because enforcing wrapping is free
2018-10-09T11:53:22 < zyp> x86 regs can be accessed in several sizes; al, ah, ax, eax and rax are all parts of the same register
2018-10-09T11:53:48 < zyp> arm doesn't do that
2018-10-09T11:53:53 < kakimir> nice
2018-10-09T11:54:34 < jpa-> yeah, looks like its 32-bit on cortex-m3
2018-10-09T11:54:55 < kakimir> not even 16bits?
2018-10-09T11:55:04 < kakimir> is 16bit wrapped?
2018-10-09T11:55:08 < jpa-> i can't see why 16bits would be any better than 8bits
2018-10-09T11:55:09 < zyp> of course
2018-10-09T11:55:18 < jpa-> (for speed, that is)
2018-10-09T11:55:28 < zyp> jpa-, it wouldn't
2018-10-09T11:55:37 < kakimir> I use a lot of uin16_t
2018-10-09T11:55:42 < jpa-> why?
2018-10-09T11:55:51 < kakimir> save mem
2018-10-09T11:56:06 < jpa-> yeah, it can make sense in storage
2018-10-09T11:56:17 < kakimir> but now I know to use uint8_t for 50% of them
2018-10-09T11:56:20 < jpa-> but then it doesn't really matter for speed anyway, if you use int for local variables
2018-10-09T11:56:22 < kakimir> for simple flags
2018-10-09T11:56:25 < kakimir> etc.
2018-10-09T11:58:13 < zyp> I just use uint32_t for anything where I don't care about type size
2018-10-09T11:58:29 < jpa-> i use int for everything
2018-10-09T11:58:35 < jpa-> because i always mess up with unsigned values
2018-10-09T11:59:09 < kakimir> I thought it would be good to use uint16_t because of some mem allocation thing
2018-10-09T11:59:14 < zyp> I only use signed types when I'm gonna stuff signed data in it
2018-10-09T11:59:34 < zyp> for storage arrays sure
2018-10-09T11:59:43 < kakimir> or that data bus would read in chunks of 16bits
2018-10-09T11:59:44 < jpa-> but then you need to be careful to have correct order in calculations
2018-10-09T11:59:46 < kakimir> or something
2018-10-09T12:00:01 < zyp> in structs, maybe, if they are layouted reasonably enough that they won't just get padded anyway
2018-10-09T12:00:08 < zyp> on stack, not much benefit
2018-10-09T12:00:55 < zyp> half the stuff you put "on stack" probably won't go on the stack at all in optimized code, it'll all be passed in registers
2018-10-09T12:02:13 < zyp> and when scratch regs are pushed, they'll always take up 32b of stack each no matter how many bits of useful data they contain
2018-10-09T12:04:37 < kakimir> I have plenty of ram
2018-10-09T12:05:23 < kakimir> should have waterline
2018-10-09T12:05:29 < kakimir> see how much actually
2018-10-09T12:05:37 < kakimir> run field test for a month or so
2018-10-09T12:05:38 < veverak> jpa-: not so hard
2018-10-09T12:05:46 < veverak> jpa-: also, -Wsigned-conversion helps
2018-10-09T12:16:24 < Steffanx> How are your day crt
2018-10-09T12:17:32 < Steffanx> Ty is not an answer
2018-10-09T12:18:47 < jpa-> veverak: yeah, but for what benefit?
2018-10-09T12:19:01 < jpa-> when i can just use int and it will work when written in the most readable way
2018-10-09T12:20:02 < jpa-> for (unsigned i = 0; i + 1 < bufsize; i++)    is not better than     for (int i = 0; i < bufsize - 1; i++)   IMO
2018-10-09T12:20:37 < veverak> ++i
2018-10-09T12:20:44 < veverak> oh, this is C, nevermind
2018-10-09T12:20:55 < jpa-> even in c++, who cares for ints
2018-10-09T12:20:55 < veverak> jpa-: I find both to be readable
2018-10-09T12:21:06 < veverak> who cares
2018-10-09T12:21:11 < veverak> just use ++x everywhere
2018-10-09T12:21:13 < veverak> :)
2018-10-09T12:21:36 < veverak> I find it easier just to use ++x everywhere than to think about when it is iterator or when it is int
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2018-10-09T12:22:30 < jpa-> i never increment iterators that way anyway
2018-10-09T12:23:50 < zyp> for(unsigned i = 1; i < bufsize; i++)
2018-10-09T12:23:52 < veverak> yeah for( T & item : data ){} ..
2018-10-09T12:24:05 < jpa-> zyp: eh, and then use    buf[i-1]  everywhere?
2018-10-09T12:24:06 < veverak> but I do that sometimes in custom algorithms
2018-10-09T12:24:32 < jpa-> besides, the increment operator implementation is practically always visible to the compiler and will get optimized to the same
2018-10-09T12:25:07 < veverak> it does that on -Og ?
2018-10-09T12:25:15 < jpa-> I can't see why people still care so much about ++x vs. x++, it very rarely has any practical significance
2018-10-09T12:25:20 < veverak> I mean, it makes sense
2018-10-09T12:25:28 < veverak> jpa-: "easy to fix thing"
2018-10-09T12:25:37 < veverak> but it may be pointless if it is done on basic optimalization levels
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2018-10-09T12:27:11 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/BGy/plain    yeah, even on -Og
2018-10-09T12:27:27 < jpa-> veverak: more like "easy to complain about instead of focusing on stuff that matters"
2018-10-09T12:27:46 < jpa-> way too common in code reviews
2018-10-09T12:28:02 < veverak> hmm
2018-10-09T12:28:10 < veverak> I should made test with more complex iterators
2018-10-09T12:28:28 < veverak> jpa-: well, stuff that is easy to fix and has point is stuff that matters
2018-10-09T12:28:36 < veverak> but this does not have a point as I thought it seems
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2018-10-09T12:31:13 < karlp> chrono__: do you have any other tasks that increase current consumption? are you plotting the raw adc value, or are you correcting with viref?
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2018-10-09T12:42:53 < karlp> re int and uint and throwaway vars: http://false.ekta.is/2012/07/code-size-changes-with-int-on-8bit-and-32bit-platforms/
2018-10-09T12:43:12 < karlp> I've not retested on newer tooclhains, but back then, "int" was smaller than "uint32_t" for arm.
2018-10-09T12:45:14 < karlp> I'm ok, computer rebooted overnight though,so rebuilding shit
2018-10-09T12:46:10 < mitrax> hi there
2018-10-09T12:47:18 < mitrax> what logic analyzer would you guys recommend in the $100-$400 range? 
2018-10-09T12:47:24 < veverak> "replaced all places"
2018-10-09T12:47:29 < veverak> that sound like he is not using type aliases
2018-10-09T12:47:33 < veverak> :/
2018-10-09T12:48:21 < veverak> mitrax:  https://www.saleae.com/ we are using this at work
2018-10-09T12:48:23 < mitrax> saleae logic pro 8 looks nice, but a bit expensive maybe
2018-10-09T12:48:29 < veverak> never used anything else really, so ... :)
2018-10-09T12:48:34 < veverak> well, it works
2018-10-09T12:48:35 < mitrax> ok :)
2018-10-09T12:48:36 < Steffanx> Get a clone?
2018-10-09T12:48:46 < veverak> I am thinking about clone for my personal use
2018-10-09T12:48:55 < Steffanx> Me too.
2018-10-09T12:48:58 < Steffanx> A red one.
2018-10-09T12:49:00 < karlp> veverak: what are you saying about "replaced all places" ?
2018-10-09T12:49:05 < mitrax> SteffanX / crt: hi
2018-10-09T12:49:15 < veverak> karlp: ah. http://false.ekta.is/2012/07/code-size-changes-with-int-on-8bit-and-32bit-platforms/
2018-10-09T12:49:17 < Steffanx> Me neither crt
2018-10-09T12:49:29 < veverak> karlp: I mean, it sounds like he uses for(uint8_t i = 0; ....) everywhere
2018-10-09T12:49:43 < karlp> I did what I said, all the places where it was just a loop counter, I replaced that with a MYTYPE define, and tried it with all the different types
2018-10-09T12:49:52 < veverak> ah
2018-10-09T12:50:03 < veverak> that's what I would do, yeah that makes sense
2018-10-09T12:50:04 < karlp> places that it mattered what the type was, were left, those aren't "free to change" duh
2018-10-09T12:50:20 < veverak> (the MYTYPE usage)
2018-10-09T12:50:23 < mitrax> Steffanx: are the clones reputed to be reliable?
2018-10-09T12:50:26 < karlp> how do you thinhk I made the table of all the different types otherwise?
2018-10-09T12:50:31 < veverak> from the blog it looked like you just made s/uint8_t/otherthing/g
2018-10-09T12:50:33 < veverak> :)
2018-10-09T12:50:36 < Steffanx> Idk mitrax. I have a real one.
2018-10-09T12:50:39 < karlp> "I was compiling the exact same c file in both cases, with only a type def changing between runs."
2018-10-09T12:50:42 < Steffanx> Thorn: might know
2018-10-09T12:50:43 < veverak> I see
2018-10-09T12:51:07 < mitrax> Steffanx: you got the pro version or the regular one?
2018-10-09T12:51:23 < karlp> veverak: anything else unclear?
2018-10-09T12:51:33 < veverak> karlp: nope, it's cool :)
2018-10-09T12:51:56 < Rajko> yo how do i connect a tachometer up to stm32
2018-10-09T12:52:08 < karlp> same way you did last time?
2018-10-09T12:52:19 < Rajko> timer trigger input ?
2018-10-09T12:53:44 < Rajko> need to pwm 4 fans
2018-10-09T12:54:14 < Steffanx> Regular here mitrax. No usb 3.0
2018-10-09T12:54:37 < Steffanx> That one is oooold crt :P
2018-10-09T12:57:20 < kakimir> where is leeloo
2018-10-09T12:57:40 < kakimir> my fav undefined gender person
2018-10-09T12:59:57 < Steffanx> Hows the scope?
2018-10-09T13:00:20 < zyp> crt, nice
2018-10-09T13:00:28 < zyp> crt, can you buy me a JBC NASE?
2018-10-09T13:01:13 < Steffanx> Fuck lead freee crt.
2018-10-09T13:01:42 < zyp> yes, that one
2018-10-09T13:02:53 < zyp> where exactly is "here"? I bet plane tickets to "here" is cheaper than that thing
2018-10-09T13:04:01 < zyp> sure, but australia is big, I don't wanna walk from the other side
2018-10-09T13:05:50 < Steffanx> In front of 7/11
2018-10-09T13:08:38 < zyp> hmm, seems like I can have round trip plane tickets for like €800
2018-10-09T13:09:08 < zyp> so yes, that'd be cheaper than just buying it myself
2018-10-09T13:09:08 < zyp> :p
2018-10-09T13:10:01 < zyp> route includes a transfer in amsterdam, so he could meet me there
2018-10-09T13:18:39 < kakimir> kinda weird way to offset byte
2018-10-09T13:18:43 < kakimir> * 256
2018-10-09T13:18:56 < kakimir> does the trick though
2018-10-09T13:21:45 < veverak> for some goddamn reason
2018-10-09T13:21:48 < veverak> i2c has busy bit on
2018-10-09T13:21:57 < veverak> and my code did not initialize anything new
2018-10-09T13:21:59 < veverak> hmm
2018-10-09T13:27:29 < kakimir> veverak: normal i2c codings
2018-10-09T13:28:17 < kakimir> veverak: time to connect scoep
2018-10-09T13:29:52 < veverak> hmm
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2018-10-09T13:34:14 < zyp> cute
2018-10-09T13:34:36 < zyp> my dad got some old scopes at home
2018-10-09T13:42:24 < veverak> kakimir: I will have to
2018-10-09T13:42:30 < veverak> this only happens after I send something over CAN
2018-10-09T13:42:32 < veverak> itneresting
2018-10-09T13:48:00 < tomeaton17> Alibaba have developed an rtos? I didn't know they did stuff like that 
2018-10-09T13:53:42 < karlp> tomeaton17: they're like amazon/google/ et all, they've got all sorts of stuff they need
2018-10-09T13:55:10 < tomeaton17> Interesting. Not very experienced with it as it takes too long to arrive in the post
2018-10-09T13:57:18 < kakimir> veverak: something about interrupts
2018-10-09T13:57:24 < kakimir> do you have debugger?
2018-10-09T13:57:30 < kakimir> as HW
2018-10-09T13:57:44 < veverak> that much is clear
2018-10-09T13:57:45 < veverak> nope
2018-10-09T13:57:50 < veverak> just ST-Link
2018-10-09T13:58:02 < kakimir> it is debugger
2018-10-09T13:58:18 < kakimir> do you use debugger as in SW?
2018-10-09T13:58:40 < veverak> using STLinks SWD connection
2018-10-09T13:58:50 < veverak> that is SW internally in the CPU no?
2018-10-09T13:58:59 < kakimir> only to program flash or to debug too?
2018-10-09T14:00:12 < veverak> to debug too
2018-10-09T14:00:17 < kakimir> sweet
2018-10-09T14:05:02 < kakimir> just checking
2018-10-09T14:05:25 < kakimir> sometimes there is people here that do weird stuff without debugger
2018-10-09T14:13:37 < veverak> I just lost fantasy as to what is going on
2018-10-09T14:13:59 < veverak> this is "After refactor" code
2018-10-09T14:14:07 < veverak> before refactoring this does not happend
2018-10-09T14:14:30 < veverak> I did not touch the CAN base of the code, nor the I2C com really, just the code that uses i2c infrastructure
2018-10-09T14:20:53 < Rajko> possible to count amount of pulses in 1 second while only generating one interrupt a second ?
2018-10-09T14:21:17 < kakimir> stm32 fantasy
2018-10-09T14:24:52 < veverak> hmm
2018-10-09T14:24:57 < veverak> CAN uses input buffer on the callback
2018-10-09T14:25:01 < veverak> nothing else is going on there
2018-10-09T14:25:03 < veverak> hmm
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2018-10-09T14:26:36 < zyp> veverak, which chip?
2018-10-09T14:26:55 < veverak> l432kc
2018-10-09T14:27:16 < karlp> what's the problem beyond "i2c is teh suck" ?
2018-10-09T14:27:50 < veverak> i2c is the stuck
2018-10-09T14:27:56 < veverak> hmm
2018-10-09T14:28:24 < zyp> veverak, what's the symptoms?
2018-10-09T14:28:44 < Rajko> can i count 4 different pulse inputs on one TIMx ?
2018-10-09T14:28:46 < veverak> zyp: BUSY_FLAG bit is on in ISR
2018-10-09T14:28:54 < veverak> (ISR register of i2c)
2018-10-09T14:29:02 < zyp> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/errata_sheet/group0/3e/a5/a0/3c/a4/35/48/6b/DM00218221/files/DM00218221.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00218221.pdf <- have you looked at 2.11.1 here?
2018-10-09T14:29:02 < veverak> or that is what I see through the HAL interface
2018-10-09T14:29:25 < Rajko> i think one TIMx should be able to self reset every second as well as count rising edge pulses 
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2018-10-09T14:29:38 < veverak> zyp: I will
2018-10-09T14:29:53 < Rajko> i want them all to be in sync
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2018-10-09T14:30:56 < zyp> veverak, doesn't look super likely to be the culprit though
2018-10-09T14:31:25 < Rajko> tachometer from 4 fans
2018-10-09T14:31:39 < Rajko> i can output 4 PWM from one TIMx easily
2018-10-09T14:31:42 < veverak> zyp: if I would stop the CPU, than it would
2018-10-09T14:31:52 < Rajko> so thats one half done
2018-10-09T14:32:02 < zyp> veverak, are you using stop mode?
2018-10-09T14:32:22 < veverak> not that I am aware of
2018-10-09T14:43:08 < veverak> hmm
2018-10-09T14:43:11 < veverak> zyp: I've found the flag
2018-10-09T14:48:35 < veverak> setted
2018-10-09T14:48:37 < veverak> it's not it
2018-10-09T15:10:32 < kakimir> how do I genrate such bitmask
2018-10-09T15:10:51 < kakimir> ie. 00011000
2018-10-09T15:11:10 < kakimir> paramters for that would be:
2018-10-09T15:11:19 < kakimir> bit: 3
2018-10-09T15:11:24 < kakimir> n_bits_
2018-10-09T15:11:30 < kakimir> : 2
2018-10-09T15:12:10 < karlp> what's the API the user will be using for this again?
2018-10-09T15:12:19 < karlp> is there a reason they want to request things like that?
2018-10-09T15:14:39 < zyp> kakimir, like this: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/gpio/gpio.h#n153
2018-10-09T15:15:40 < zyp> well
2018-10-09T15:16:19 < zyp> in your case you'll probably want to do ((1 << n_bits) - 1) << bit
2018-10-09T15:17:20 < zyp> (1 << 2) - 1 is 0b11, shifting it by 3 results in 0b11000
2018-10-09T15:17:59 < kakimir> what if bit is 0?
2018-10-09T15:18:14 < zyp> still works
2018-10-09T15:18:26 < zyp> (1 << 0) - 1 is 0
2018-10-09T15:18:54 < kakimir> what is n_bits is non zero in that case?
2018-10-09T15:19:20 < zyp> oh, sorry, that's what I thought you said
2018-10-09T15:19:30 < zyp> anyway, it works in both cases
2018-10-09T15:19:32 < kakimir> so cute Cracki ?
2018-10-09T15:19:56 < kakimir> dem try to do bit masking
2018-10-09T15:20:02 < kakimir> so cute
2018-10-09T15:20:53 < zyp> yeah, both edge cases works fine, from 0 to 32 (inclusive)
2018-10-09T15:21:04 < kakimir> I'll use it with uint8_t or so
2018-10-09T15:21:26 < zyp> 1 << 32 will overflow, but 0 - 1 still results in 0xffffffff, so the result remains correct
2018-10-09T15:22:48 < zyp> 1ULL should work if you need a 64-bit expression
2018-10-09T15:26:33 < dongs> jadew: no
2018-10-09T15:26:56 < zyp> Cracki, sounds like a java compiler
2018-10-09T15:27:04 < zyp> java is ridiculous about that shit
2018-10-09T15:29:14 < mawk> -pedantic is the flag
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2018-10-09T15:32:11 < dongs> clang with -Wall or whaetver will spam miles and miles of scroll for you
2018-10-09T15:33:55 < zyp> dongs, especially if your code is shit
2018-10-09T15:34:10 < kakimir> whos isn't
2018-10-09T15:34:26 < zyp> I thought dongs didn't write shit code
2018-10-09T15:34:30 < kakimir> lets get real
2018-10-09T15:34:51 < BrainDamage> maybe there should be a competition where the goal is provide working code yet trigger the most amount of compiler warnings possible
2018-10-09T15:35:19 < kakimir> #define GENERATE_MASK(SHIFT_LEFT_STEPS, MASK_N_BITS)	((1 << MASK_N_BITS) - 1) << SHIFT_LEFT_BITS
2018-10-09T15:35:28 < kakimir> #define VALUE_SHIFT_LEFT_STEPS_AND_MASK_MACRO(VALUE,SHIFT_LEFT_STEPS,MASK_N_BITS)	( VALUE << SHIFT_LEFT_STEPS ) && GENERATE_MASK(SHIFT_LEFT_STEPS, MASK_N_BITS)
2018-10-09T15:35:43 < kakimir> it's perfect
2018-10-09T15:35:50 < kakimir> would it work potentially
2018-10-09T15:35:57 < zyp> no
2018-10-09T15:36:18 < zyp> you have to wrap the expression in () when you use a macro like that, otherwise operator precedence can fuck it all up
2018-10-09T15:36:40 < kakimir> oh I forgot
2018-10-09T15:37:05 < zyp> #define DOUBLE(a) a + a
2018-10-09T15:37:23 < kakimir> so I || these operations until I get all the fields for register I want
2018-10-09T15:37:24 < zyp> int i = DOUBLE(2) * 3
2018-10-09T15:37:38 < zyp> no
2018-10-09T15:37:44 < zyp> || is boolean, not bitwise
2018-10-09T15:37:55 < zyp> same with &&
2018-10-09T15:38:17 < kakimir> embarasings!
2018-10-09T15:38:58 < kakimir> but hey.. now I'm back to the track
2018-10-09T15:39:00 < kakimir> thanks
2018-10-09T15:39:59 < kakimir> I just look precompiler output
2018-10-09T15:40:02 < veverak> -Wall -Wextra -Werror -pedantic -Wconversion -Wsigned-conversion
2018-10-09T15:40:04 < veverak> <3
2018-10-09T15:40:33 < karlp> 99% sure that -Wconversion includes signed conversion
2018-10-09T15:40:49 < veverak> hmm
2018-10-09T15:40:56 < veverak> yeah, possible
2018-10-09T15:40:59 < karlp> -Werror is pretty dumb though, that's how you get to fix errors multiple times, and so that things automatically fail when you upgrade machines/compielrs
2018-10-09T15:41:56 < veverak> works for me :)
2018-10-09T15:42:04 < veverak> and clang-tidy when I have time to play
2018-10-09T15:42:25 < zyp> IMO -Werror is annoying for development, fine for testing and a terrible idea for release
2018-10-09T15:42:52 < karlp> soundsd about right.
2018-10-09T15:43:09 < veverak> yeah, disable that for release
2018-10-09T15:43:22 < zyp> i.e. most useful for CI builds
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2018-10-09T15:52:29 < jadew> dongs, you can probably go ahead and buy it
2018-10-09T15:53:36 < jadew> I don't know how fast you get shit from china, but I'll have that ready either this week or the next one
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2018-10-09T15:54:38 < dongs> im going to taiwan like this friday for a couple weeks
2018-10-09T15:54:47 < dongs> if anything i'd probly have chinagirl bounce it there while im tehre
2018-10-09T15:54:53 < dongs> cuz it arrives like next day
2018-10-09T15:54:59 < jadew> ah, ok
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2018-10-09T15:55:13 < dongs> whether i'll ahve time to fuck with it or not is another story
2018-10-09T15:55:45 < zyp> what are you guys fucking with?
2018-10-09T15:56:02 < dongs> amp for input/output of pluto
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2018-10-09T15:58:03 < veverak> doc
2018-10-09T15:59:01 < BrainDamage> be careful with those ultra wideband lnas
2018-10-09T15:59:06 < BrainDamage> they are easy to overload
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2018-10-09T15:59:29 < BrainDamage> so even if you use a wideband lna, slap a filter in front if you know your band
2018-10-09T16:00:28 < jadew> BrainDamage, I'm making a level limitter for dongs, because the those amplifiers can easily fry it
2018-10-09T16:02:16 < jadew> the one he wants to use has a P1dB of ~20 dBm, while the maximum input power of the pluto is 2 dBm
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2018-10-09T16:33:34 < karlp> bluetooth is weird.
2018-10-09T16:33:55 < karlp> I can connect and send f1 and f2 and dx, but sending f0 doens't give me any data back. https://sigrok.org/wiki/RDTech_UM24C
2018-10-09T16:34:03 < karlp> stupid software
2018-10-09T16:34:36 < dongs> oh that thing
2018-10-09T16:34:39 < dongs> i think i have a similar one
2018-10-09T16:34:41 < dongs> with BT on it as well
2018-10-09T16:34:45 < dongs> never tried to use it
2018-10-09T16:35:20 < karlp> so I know writing works, screen turns around, backlight changes.
2018-10-09T16:35:22  * karlp shrugs
2018-10-09T16:41:34 < Sadale> I guess I like DDD more than Eclipse for debugging embedded program :3
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2018-10-09T16:57:57 < karlp> man, ddd is so horrific.
2018-10-09T16:58:16 < karlp> but ok, each to their own
2018-10-09T16:58:44 < zyp> ddd itself works pretty well, but the toolkit it's using makes it look like shit
2018-10-09T16:59:17 < karlp> and the ui uses buttons and things that are alien to most of us.
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2018-10-09T16:59:32 < karlp> gdb-tui is pretty good
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2018-10-09T17:11:26 < kakimir> what is objective C?
2018-10-09T17:11:31 < kakimir> __OBJC__
2018-10-09T17:11:34 < zyp> a programming language
2018-10-09T17:12:12 < Laurenceb124> >imagine being this new
2018-10-09T17:12:25 < zyp> heh
2018-10-09T17:12:31 < zyp> there's objective C++ too though
2018-10-09T17:12:41 < kakimir> steve jobs
2018-10-09T17:13:10 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective-C#Objective-C++
2018-10-09T17:13:29 < zyp> "Objective-C++ adds to C++ the extensions that Objective-C adds to C."
2018-10-09T17:13:47 < kakimir> these are weird stuff
2018-10-09T17:13:54 < zyp> yes
2018-10-09T17:14:05 < zyp> unless you're gonna do iOS dev, you better just forget it
2018-10-09T17:14:08 < kakimir> stev jubbs used objective C
2018-10-09T17:14:13 < Laurenceb124> Haohmaru: Steve Jobs was, yeah
2018-10-09T17:14:33 < kakimir> I should follow the footsteps of prophet
2018-10-09T17:15:18 < kakimir> I didn't say my prophet
2018-10-09T17:16:02 < kakimir> dongs
2018-10-09T17:16:30 < kakimir> didn't make thing better did it?
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2018-10-09T17:17:34 < kakimir> I don't see any problem with them now those are fixed
2018-10-09T17:17:35 < dongs> http://tonsky.me/blog/disenchantment/ good read
2018-10-09T17:17:42 < kakimir> only naming is too short
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2018-10-09T17:22:04 < veverak> dongs: well, that is logical consequence
2018-10-09T17:22:18 < veverak> we are still in age where there is more coding jobs than coders
2018-10-09T17:22:22 < veverak> so _anybody_ can do it
2018-10-09T17:22:24 < veverak> hecne the result
2018-10-09T17:22:27 < veverak> *hence
2018-10-09T17:23:05 < zyp> the argument that cpu time is cheaper than coder time is also true
2018-10-09T17:23:13 < veverak> yeah
2018-10-09T17:23:18 < veverak> because there is not enough coders
2018-10-09T17:23:27 < veverak> hence they are expensive
2018-10-09T17:23:43 < veverak> not to mention that this effect scales itself up
2018-10-09T17:23:46 < zyp> manhours is expensive no matter how you look at it
2018-10-09T17:23:58 < veverak> because most of the coders are uncompetent
2018-10-09T17:24:09 < veverak> and can't make a code that works for 10 years...
2018-10-09T17:24:25 < veverak> I hate how many times we simply rewrite things, instead of polishing the old ones :/
2018-10-09T17:25:01 < zyp> no really, even if you had programmers at minimum wage, cpu time is still cheaper
2018-10-09T17:25:32 < veverak> yeah, but the difference would be smaller
2018-10-09T17:25:46 < veverak> and if theere would be enough coders
2018-10-09T17:25:49 < veverak> the quality would be better 
2018-10-09T17:26:57 < zyp> the way I see it, it's not a matter of quality, it's a matter of there not being any economy in spending more time to write code to need less resources
2018-10-09T17:28:02 < zyp> if something takes ten times as much time to write, it's still gonna cost ten times as much also, regardless of how many coders you have
2018-10-09T17:28:57 < veverak> if you have ten times better coders, they write it much efficient in same time ;)
2018-10-09T17:29:01 < veverak> *mcuh more
2018-10-09T17:29:28 < zyp> or they can write the slow code at a tenth of the time and thus a tenth of the cost
2018-10-09T17:30:03 < veverak> which means that people could actually give a fuck about investing into more quality
2018-10-09T17:30:25 < zyp> why? it's cheaper to just pay for the additional cpu time
2018-10-09T17:30:35 < kakimir> customer pays cpu time
2018-10-09T17:30:47 < veverak> zyp: in generall? NO IT IS NOT
2018-10-09T17:30:51 < veverak> (google and facebook disagrees)
2018-10-09T17:30:56 < veverak> it depends
2018-10-09T17:30:59 < veverak> you can calculate it
2018-10-09T17:31:05 < veverak> (or guess)
2018-10-09T17:31:32 < zyp> everything depends, but just look at where we are
2018-10-09T17:31:35 < veverak> if you have 10 times better coders, you give them more time to optimalize it, because it tips the scales
2018-10-09T17:31:49 < zyp> why?
2018-10-09T17:31:56 < veverak> because it tips the scales
2018-10-09T17:32:03 < zyp> tip the scales where?
2018-10-09T17:32:10 < veverak> come on, this is basic logic
2018-10-09T17:32:13 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4YRPdRXKFs
2018-10-09T17:32:48 < kakimir> words of wisdom
2018-10-09T17:33:03 < veverak> zyp: hours_to_improve*wage < cost_of_hw_for_same_improvement
2018-10-09T17:34:08 < veverak> you want to give the developers time, that makes the left side smaller (with some margin)
2018-10-09T17:34:32 < veverak> or, wait, I gave it in a wrong way
2018-10-09T17:35:18 < kakimir> Donalt Knuth quited using email in year 1990
2018-10-09T17:35:20 < zyp> sure, sure, I'm just arguing that the cost of code is not gonna change enough to have a significant effect
2018-10-09T17:35:23 < zyp> but I got to go
2018-10-09T17:35:28 < veverak> I argue that it will
2018-10-09T17:35:45 < kakimir> after he had have enought of it
2018-10-09T17:35:50 < veverak> better coders for same price, means that they will improve the perofrmance more before it is cheaper to buy new hw
2018-10-09T17:39:20 < veverak> not to mention when they actually think
2018-10-09T17:39:26 < veverak> so they do not bloat the cpu with bullshits
2018-10-09T17:39:41 < veverak> then you realize that isntead of 12 servers, you can use 2
2018-10-09T17:39:55 < veverak> just because they got little wisdom not to install everything that is not required
2018-10-09T17:40:27 < BrainDamage> depends who faces the costs though
2018-10-09T17:40:36 < BrainDamage> for most software, the cost is on the user, not the programmer
2018-10-09T17:40:42 < BrainDamage> ( performance cost )
2018-10-09T17:40:48 < kakimir> google is such scale they would care about performance
2018-10-09T17:41:00 < kakimir> *in their end of things
2018-10-09T17:41:24 < BrainDamage> there will be some correlation between a program's weight and how much users adopt it, but it's comparative to the competitors of the time, rather than standalone
2018-10-09T17:41:31 < kakimir> but users - enjoy bloat js adventure
2018-10-09T17:41:52 < BrainDamage> google code's customer is primarily google itself
2018-10-09T17:42:14 < BrainDamage> they code for themselves, therefore if their code is inefficient, they are the ones that get direct infrastructure cost
2018-10-09T17:42:44 < BrainDamage> the same cannot be said when a random software house sells you a program
2018-10-09T17:43:38 < BrainDamage> hence why discord can run a whole browser and javascript stack to provide you a chat program
2018-10-09T17:44:09 < BrainDamage> they could optimize, but the return comes in term of customer satisfaction, rather than direct monetary gains
2018-10-09T17:45:28 < dongs> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/7-967288-1/A123185-ND/2332419 what a fun connector
2018-10-09T17:46:24 < veverak> https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition
2018-10-09T17:46:26 < veverak> WHAT THE HELL
2018-10-09T17:47:42 < BrainDamage> oh, and to be clear, even google code can be inefficient, just look at how heavy it is the new gmail interface, but that one is customer facing, the load is on your browser, not their servers, their maint incentive to optimize it is just shrink the size to deliver to you and the IO it performs, not that you can fry an egg on your cpu
2018-10-09T17:49:39 < veverak> yup
2018-10-09T17:50:10 < veverak> I blame that to the lack of competition
2018-10-09T17:50:21 < veverak> _real_ competition
2018-10-09T17:50:36 < veverak> in my social circles of IT guys, they do give a fuck about efficiency a lot
2018-10-09T17:50:43 < veverak> "I fucking hate slow programs!"
2018-10-09T17:50:44 < veverak>  etc...
2018-10-09T17:50:53 < veverak> because they can efficiently use the alternatives that are more effective
2018-10-09T17:50:58 < veverak> (hence why I use linux)
2018-10-09T17:51:18 < veverak> problem why gmail can be so slow... because there is no other easy to use BFU friendly email thing
2018-10-09T17:52:01 < englishman> AMP connector
2018-10-09T17:53:04 < veverak> * that is popular
2018-10-09T17:53:06 < veverak> :)
2018-10-09T17:53:42 < veverak> hmm
2018-10-09T17:53:48 < englishman> FizzBuzzEnterpriseCloud
2018-10-09T17:53:53 < veverak> O_O
2018-10-09T17:57:13 < BrainDamage> veverak: BFU?
2018-10-09T17:58:27 < karlp> best fighting unicorns
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2018-10-09T18:03:52 < veverak> bloody fucking user
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2018-10-09T18:19:33 < mawk> my embedded computing teacher is so cheap that instead of buying me the board I need in order to complete his 6LoWPAN project he gave me his personal one
2018-10-09T18:19:34 < dongs> https://github.com/tonsky/FiraCode wgat the shit
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2018-10-09T18:19:42 < dongs> this faggot is pulling nearly $6k monthly on gaytreon
2018-10-09T18:19:52 < dongs> https://github.com/tonsky/FiraCode/raw/master/showcases/javascript.png
2018-10-09T18:20:01 < dongs> in his gay fucking font, he thinks shit like != etc is too hard to read
2018-10-09T18:20:02 < mawk> and it's an enterprise project, eg his company is going to beneficiate from that
2018-10-09T18:20:06 < dongs> so its replaced with like single-character versions
2018-10-09T18:20:07 < mawk> and he won't pay for that
2018-10-09T18:20:20 < mawk> at first he said he would pay, then he saw the 400€ bill and started making excuses
2018-10-09T18:20:47 < mawk> lol dongs 
2018-10-09T18:20:53 < mawk> why not coding with doodles
2018-10-09T18:21:04 < dongs> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/tonsky/FiraCode/master/showcases/all_ligatures.png
2018-10-09T18:21:05 < karlp> are they still charging hundreds of euros for 802.15.4 boards?
2018-10-09T18:21:08 < dongs> well thats what his shit literally does
2018-10-09T18:21:10 < karlp> no wonder no-one's deving for them
2018-10-09T18:21:17 < mawk> btw that ++ glyph is very ugly
2018-10-09T18:21:32 < karlp> fuck I hat ethis ligature obsession
2018-10-09T18:21:35 < dongs> the whole thing is beyond dumb
2018-10-09T18:21:51 < emeb> for when you've run out of real problems to solve.
2018-10-09T18:21:53 < mawk> for the ones I've seen they stay expensive yeah karlp 
2018-10-09T18:22:10 < mawk> but now I've got a cheap microcheap 2.4 GHz transceiver with the proper modulation
2018-10-09T18:22:12 < mawk> I'll try that
2018-10-09T18:22:15 < karlp> it's why I tried to do things with mrf24j40, 
2018-10-09T18:22:21 < karlp> but it's a shit world
2018-10-09T18:22:30 < mawk> yeah I've got the same one
2018-10-09T18:22:31 < emeb> rf is a myth
2018-10-09T18:22:40 < BrainDamage> to me the ligatures seem to create a problem
2018-10-09T18:22:53 < karlp> there's a newer one I bought some samples of but never wired up, which are meant to be lower power, higher sensitivity (from microchip) but they're not common
2018-10-09T18:22:56 < BrainDamage> now what you see and what text is there is not the same
2018-10-09T18:23:04 < mawk> then when I receive my breakout pcb for nrf52840 I'll try that instead
2018-10-09T18:23:07 < karlp> apparently nxp has a "new" part too, cheaper/better than the old atmel stuff.
2018-10-09T18:23:12 < mawk> it's a whole mcu with a proper sdk and stuff, it'll be cool for debugging
2018-10-09T18:23:20 < karlp> pros and cons
2018-10-09T18:23:38 < mawk> because if I only have two mrf24j40 it's way harder to get to something that works
2018-10-09T18:23:44 < mawk> because it'll work only when both codes work
2018-10-09T18:24:06 < dongs> disfunctional scripting languagtes should just be fucking banned
2018-10-09T18:24:08 < dongs> from programming
2018-10-09T18:24:57 < karlp> mawk: dude, its' a solved problem: https://github.com/karlp/Mrf24j40-arduino-library
2018-10-09T18:24:59 < dongs> ruby, python, go, erlang, clojure, haskell, elm, all the various masturbations of java like kotlin etc
2018-10-09T18:25:16 < karlp> shit parts have absurd init, but it's all documented and well established
2018-10-09T18:25:22 < mawk> yeah I don't like doing that karlp 
2018-10-09T18:25:22 < karlp> shit, there's a kernel driver for mrf24j40 
2018-10-09T18:25:27 < mawk> but yeah I've seen code examples
2018-10-09T18:25:30 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-09T18:25:34 < mawk> linux-wpan something
2018-10-09T18:25:35 < karlp> you can just hook them up to spi on any sbc
2018-10-09T18:25:46 < dongs> does that actually work
2018-10-09T18:25:49 < karlp> so.... what's the thesis really on?
2018-10-09T18:25:57 < dongs> or do you need to spend 10 days figuring out how to device tree and shit
2018-10-09T18:26:01 < karlp> dongs: apparently, but noone has hardware for it that's readily available so....
2018-10-09T18:26:15 < mawk> well I like to run my own code
2018-10-09T18:26:22 < mawk> so if I'm out of ideas yeah I can use the available ones
2018-10-09T18:26:27 < karlp> ah, artisanal hand crafted bits.
2018-10-09T18:26:29 < karlp> I see.
2018-10-09T18:26:31 < mawk> because after all I do all of this for learning
2018-10-09T18:26:35 < mawk> not for a real product
2018-10-09T18:26:45 < dongs> karlp's retarduino lib looks solid
2018-10-09T18:26:50 < dongs> C-ify it to remove faggotry and done
2018-10-09T18:26:55 < mawk> at least I hope they won't use my code
2018-10-09T18:26:58 < mawk> it might get on the moon or something
2018-10-09T18:27:06 < mawk> the RTOS I'm deving for has been in some curiosity probe
2018-10-09T18:27:12 < karlp> it actualy started as a C library
2018-10-09T18:27:17 < dongs> no doubt
2018-10-09T18:27:28 < karlp> it's old shit code of mine though, haven't touched in in years
2018-10-09T18:27:42 < dongs> my only real complaint about it is using shit like 'byte' instead of stdint.h
2018-10-09T18:27:53 < mawk> isn't it an arduino thing ?
2018-10-09T18:28:08 < mawk> also a C++17 type or something
2018-10-09T18:28:18 < dongs> > 7 years ago
2018-10-09T18:28:26 < dongs> don't think gay++17 was around back then
2018-10-09T18:29:38 < emeb> all C code should be updated to use only stdint.h types
2018-10-09T18:30:03 < dongs> https://developer.android.com/static/images/kotlin/code-samples/code-sample-large.svg
2018-10-09T18:30:06 < dongs> fucking gross
2018-10-09T18:30:14 < dongs> "semicolons are optional"
2018-10-09T18:31:28 < mawk> some of the ligatures are nonsense
2018-10-09T18:31:38 < dongs> some->all
2018-10-09T18:31:42 < mawk> he thinks |= is mostly used as an ascii-art frame or something
2018-10-09T18:31:47 < mawk> so he ligatured it
2018-10-09T18:32:00 < mawk> and the www looks like a sine wave
2018-10-09T18:32:08 < dongs> BUT it looks CooL
2018-10-09T18:32:10 < dongs> !!11
2018-10-09T18:32:18 < mawk> lol
2018-10-09T18:32:21 < karlp> mawk: right, but learning what? learning concpets of rf mesh? use existing software, learn how to read a datasheet and write a low level basic driver? sure, maybe write your own, but you'll get plenty of time for that just as you work on thing naturally
2018-10-09T18:32:57 < mawk> for the SPI init code I don't mind using other code karlp yeah, but what I wanted to learn by myself was the actual 802.15.4 code
2018-10-09T18:33:14 < mawk> eg stories about beacons, CSMA-CA, superframes, etc
2018-10-09T18:33:47 < BrainDamage> to me it's even dangerous, you lose the 1:1 correspondence, like without gaps you cannot easily distinguish if ~> from ~~> unless both are present and close together
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2018-10-09T18:35:18 < BrainDamage> you'd have to compare the length to the neighbouring chars, or go there with the cursor, at which point you've wasted a fuckload of time compared to the slight uglyness of the gap
2018-10-09T18:36:24 < mawk> when soldering pcb on pcb what needs to be avoided is an antenna above a ground plane ? or an antenna above anything metallic even floating
2018-10-09T18:36:51 < BrainDamage> antenna over anything metallic
2018-10-09T18:36:56 < dongs> you should have all copper layers empty of copper under antenna
2018-10-09T18:37:07 < dongs> other than that, wahtever?
2018-10-09T18:37:48 < BrainDamage> as rule of thumb, anything within lambda distance of the antenna it's still part of the antenna
2018-10-09T18:39:59  * Ultrasauce is part of the antenna
2018-10-09T18:50:45 < mawk> even copper pads BrainDamage ?
2018-10-09T18:50:54 < mawk> like in a protoboard
2018-10-09T18:51:44 < BrainDamage> even copper pads
2018-10-09T18:52:02 < BrainDamage> that's a matrix of capacitors
2018-10-09T18:52:53 < BrainDamage> if the internal layout is so problematic, just use an external antenna
2018-10-09T18:53:21 < BrainDamage> add a connector, preferably sma so that the channel users can fap over it, and put the antenna elsewhere
2018-10-09T18:53:50 < BrainDamage> if sma is too big for you use lube^W mcx or u.fl
2018-10-09T18:53:56 < mawk> lol
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2018-10-09T18:55:49 < mawk> so here lambda = 3*10^8/(2.4*10^9) ~= 10cm
2018-10-09T18:55:59 < mawk> it's a bit high
2018-10-09T18:56:08 < mawk> even without copper right under, there's copper in a 10cm range
2018-10-09T18:56:10 < BrainDamage> remember that the ground plane cuts off the antenna
2018-10-09T18:56:55 < BrainDamage> you can still place conductive shit around it btw, it'll just be less efficient
2018-10-09T18:57:03 < BrainDamage> and the more crap you add, the worse it'll perform
2018-10-09T18:57:09 < mawk> I see
2018-10-09T18:57:21 < mawk> the direction matters ?
2018-10-09T18:57:24 < mawk> the angle I mean
2018-10-09T18:58:03 < mawk> the antenna is part of a specific plane, copper in a parallel plane will interfere the same way as copper in an orthogonal plane for instance ?
2018-10-09T18:58:15 < BrainDamage> ofc it won't
2018-10-09T18:59:10 < BrainDamage> I would suggest to stop worrying particularly for the moment, just avoid a copper pour directly below
2018-10-09T18:59:27 < BrainDamage> adjust only if the perfomance is unsatisfactory
2018-10-09T18:59:38 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-09T18:59:52 < BrainDamage> if you want best perf, isolate the antenna
2018-10-09T19:03:23 < mawk> if only I listened during my physics classes instead of getting high
2018-10-09T19:03:32 < mawk> I'd be able to compute all of that
2018-10-09T19:04:04 < mawk> I vaguely remember stuff about wave reflection off metal half-planes, etc
2018-10-09T19:05:04 < BrainDamage> method of images
2018-10-09T19:05:25 < BrainDamage> it's actually pretty hard to calculate the impact of arbitrary crap around
2018-10-09T19:05:37 < BrainDamage> if you're anal about it, measure or simulate
2018-10-09T19:05:46 < BrainDamage> grab nec2
2018-10-09T19:08:26 < BrainDamage> eg https://i.imgur.com/gElTct6.png
2018-10-09T19:10:50 < mawk> nice
2018-10-09T19:11:28 < jadew> is that a GSM antenna?
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2018-10-09T19:12:13 < mawk> gsm
2018-10-09T19:12:26 < mawk> I have a gsm module that didn't want to power off my computer usb port
2018-10-09T19:12:35 < mawk> I later discovered that it needs 2A during emission
2018-10-09T19:12:47 < Steffanx> Hah
2018-10-09T19:12:48 < Ultrasauce> PORCO DIO
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2018-10-09T19:14:37 < englishman> ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)╯
2018-10-09T19:14:46 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBMIra45lU kakimusics
2018-10-09T19:15:03 < kakimir> enjoy that bass
2018-10-09T19:15:51 < Steffanx> Its kaki.
2018-10-09T19:17:15 < jadew> there's no bass...
2018-10-09T19:17:24 < mawk> it starts around 2:30
2018-10-09T19:17:27 < mawk> says the comments
2018-10-09T19:17:33 < kakimir> guise
2018-10-09T19:17:42 < kakimir> have you not ever listened to music
2018-10-09T19:19:04 < kakimir> radio lenght songs are way too short for musics
2018-10-09T19:20:00 < jadew> looks to me like a video about architecture
2018-10-09T19:20:11 < kakimir> it's art man
2018-10-09T19:20:40 < Steffanx> Its not my genre mr kakimir 
2018-10-09T19:21:40 < kakimir> there is this movie
2018-10-09T19:21:54 < kakimir> artsy movie done in late 80s I think
2018-10-09T19:22:29 < kakimir> where they just film human live and civilization
2018-10-09T19:22:32 < BrainDamage> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTXPoQyIf-c
2018-10-09T19:22:37 < kakimir> there is no dialogue or anything
2018-10-09T19:23:02 < kakimir> I met merlin in my dream
2018-10-09T19:24:41 < BrainDamage> https://i.imgur.com/UDS9eiQ.gifv rockets
2018-10-09T19:29:49 < Steffanx> More quality music https://youtu.be/WXE-m_yPH_s
2018-10-09T19:30:36 < emeb> mmm... boards of canada
2018-10-09T19:31:36 < Ultrasauce> https://dreamcatalogue.bandcamp.com/album/hk we must construct additional musicspam
2018-10-09T19:32:00 < kakimir> all I know is that all who listen red army choir seriously are communists
2018-10-09T19:32:37 < kakimir> I mean people who say it's like their fav band
2018-10-09T19:32:45 < emeb> kakimir: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koyaanisqatsi
2018-10-09T19:32:51 < kakimir> that one
2018-10-09T19:32:59 < kakimir> I almost remembered the name
2018-10-09T19:33:28 < emeb> Philip Glass soundtrack
2018-10-09T19:33:36 < emeb> very repetitive
2018-10-09T19:33:45 < emeb> orchestral - no electronics
2018-10-09T19:34:19 < kakimir> Steffanx: what do you think comrade?
2018-10-09T19:34:46 < BrainDamage> btw emeb, do you remember the name of the artifact encoding caused by low bitrate lossy compression on impulsive sounds like cymbals?
2018-10-09T19:34:54 < BrainDamage> it produces a short squashy, wet noise
2018-10-09T19:35:31 < emeb> BrainDamage: I know the effect - didn't know it had a name.
2018-10-09T19:35:38 < Steffanx> I like it kakimir.
2018-10-09T19:35:51 < BrainDamage> I'm 100% sure it has a name, but I forgot
2018-10-09T19:36:46 < kakimir> granularity?
2018-10-09T19:37:37 < kakimir> in Finnish "rakeisuus"
2018-10-09T19:37:57 < BrainDamage> one is pre-echo, the other I forgot
2018-10-09T19:38:03 < emeb> BrainDamage: temporal smearing?
2018-10-09T19:38:08 < kakimir> rae = grain, globule, hailstone
2018-10-09T19:38:39 < BrainDamage> I think it's warbling
2018-10-09T19:39:05 < mitrax> SteffanX: the Logic 8 has a 10 billion samples limit, do you know if that translates to a maximum sampling duration that depends on the sample rate i.e (10^9 / 2*sampling_rate) no matter the input  or are only actual logic state changes taken into account? e.g if there's no signal or long pauses is that compressed into a single 'sample'?
2018-10-09T19:39:26 < emeb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_artifact
2018-10-09T19:39:55 < emeb> Compression artifacts in compressed audio typically show up as ringing, pre-echo, "birdie artifacts", drop-outs, rattling, warbling, metallic ringing, an underwater feeling, hissing, or "graininess".
2018-10-09T19:40:20 < emeb> I'll take "Underwater feeling" for 100 please Alex
2018-10-09T19:41:08 < Steffanx> It must be smart mitrax. Checked this website?
2018-10-09T19:41:10 < Steffanx> https://www.saleae.com/performance-calculator
2018-10-09T19:41:32 < Steffanx> But i didnt know about the limit.
2018-10-09T19:42:10 < Steffanx> mitrax or try talk to them in the popup
2018-10-09T19:42:11 < mitrax> i did but i didn't see that page, thanks
2018-10-09T19:43:22 < mitrax> ah, "Your digital signals are compressed, so only changes in your digital data take up memory." at the bottom of that page, thx
2018-10-09T19:43:41 < BrainDamage> wait, I though they streamed the data in realtime with only circular buffering
2018-10-09T19:43:48 < BrainDamage> why does it have a max sample limit?
2018-10-09T19:44:31 < Steffanx> The beta version of the saleae tool can view the incoming data live. I like that
2018-10-09T19:44:41 < karlp> should just use pulseview....
2018-10-09T19:44:52 < Steffanx> Can the pulse do that?
2018-10-09T19:45:13 < BrainDamage> yes
2018-10-09T19:45:29 < Steffanx> Since when?
2018-10-09T19:45:35 < BrainDamage> since always?
2018-10-09T19:45:41 < Steffanx> Lies.
2018-10-09T19:45:43 < BrainDamage> it plots data as it arrives
2018-10-09T19:46:04 < kakimir> what do you think about such thing:
2018-10-09T19:46:42 < kakimir> I pass as parameter number of bytes, data buffer pointer and data buffer length as size_t?
2018-10-09T19:47:37 < mitrax> karlp: what cheap logic analyzer would you recommend with sigrok/pulseview? (windows)
2018-10-09T19:51:00 < jpa-> the 8-port FX2 ones are fine if the specs are enough for you
2018-10-09T19:51:40 < kakimir> I have had issues with chinacheap FX2
2018-10-09T19:54:47 < Steffanx> it didnt like your music 
2018-10-09T19:55:04 < mitrax> jpa-: thanks, do you know if there's a time limit on the sampling duration?
2018-10-09T19:55:13 < englishman> only music needed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra6FtdXrH4Q
2018-10-09T19:55:19 < jpa-> mitrax: only PC memory
2018-10-09T19:55:24 < Steffanx> have to long stuff for years mitrax?
2018-10-09T19:55:32 < karlp> I've used fx2 8 port ones and been happy.
2018-10-09T19:55:33 < mitrax> nah just an hour or so
2018-10-09T19:55:38 < jpa-> kakimir: they are somewhat picky about PC and USB cable sometimes
2018-10-09T19:55:53 < karlp> I also have a 16ch 100MHz one that is pretty good too.
2018-10-09T19:56:01 < jpa-> mitrax: an hour at what samplerate?
2018-10-09T19:56:12 < karlp> if you're planning on capturing an hour with a LA, you need to figure out better triggers, you're not really at LA time yet.
2018-10-09T19:56:30 < mitrax> <=1Mhz
2018-10-09T19:57:01 < englishman> 3.6Gb of data capture
2018-10-09T19:57:21 < englishman> manual horizontal scrolling thru 1 hour
2018-10-09T19:57:26 < mitrax> well it's not one hour of continous signal, there's actually very little traffic, but i need to be able to capture it in a one hour time window
2018-10-09T19:58:03 < jpa-> pulseview will freeze with that amount of data, 100Msamples is usually the most I can use with 10GB ram; but command line sigrok can capture longer and then you can split it up or whatever
2018-10-09T19:58:22 < jpa-> though not sure if even pulseview might handle sparse data better
2018-10-09T19:58:30 < mitrax> hm ok
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2018-10-09T19:59:14 < jpa-> with sigrok-cli you could easily do stuff like "capture for 10 seconds when something changes" and put that in loop
2018-10-09T19:59:27 < karlp> like I said, fix your triggers :)
2018-10-09T20:00:26 < mitrax> will do :)
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2018-10-09T20:01:10 < kakimir> jpa-: some have even unsuitable eeprom
2018-10-09T20:01:21 < kakimir> something about 8bit and 16bit wide eeproms
2018-10-09T20:01:26 < kakimir> one type fits
2018-10-09T20:01:34 < jpa-> unsuitable for what?
2018-10-09T20:01:43 < kakimir> for the chip
2018-10-09T20:01:45 < kakimir> or something
2018-10-09T20:02:05 < kakimir> resulting in enumerating problems
2018-10-09T20:02:36 < jpa-> ok; i think sigrok might work even completely without eeprom
2018-10-09T20:03:45 < kakimir> I think some drivers can load firmware when the device is connected
2018-10-09T20:04:19 < jpa-> they all do
2018-10-09T20:04:35 < jpa-> the eeprom will only give usb vid/pid
2018-10-09T20:09:48 < kakimir> I had problem where only one sampling could be done at the time
2018-10-09T20:10:00 < kakimir> after that it required detaching FX2
2018-10-09T20:10:24 < kakimir> maybe sigrok restart also can't remember
2018-10-09T20:10:32 < kakimir> *pulseview
2018-10-09T20:34:44 < kakimir> anyone remember password rules for skype password?
2018-10-09T20:34:58 < kakimir> I try to remember my skype passwd
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2018-10-09T20:55:48 < Steffanx> lol nice joke. the people here mentioning sigrok are also prettty much active there Cracki.
2018-10-09T20:56:22 < Steffanx> oh except karlp :P
2018-10-09T20:57:11 < Steffanx> and #sigrok is a joke. complaining about some download image/button on the frontpage..
2018-10-09T20:57:57 < Steffanx> "dont rely on what people say here" ...
2018-10-09T20:58:54 < Steffanx> if you say so.
2018-10-09T21:01:20 < Steffanx> Nope, but i do know im not going to discuss anything with you.
2018-10-09T21:01:20 < karlp> let's see what cracki added, "--continuous"
2018-10-09T21:01:25 < karlp> so yeah, that was useful.
2018-10-09T21:02:07 < karlp> the people here have been _encouraging_ sigrok useage, stop ranting and frothing cracki
2018-10-09T21:02:15 < karlp> yeah, vcd output, because that's super solid.
2018-10-09T21:02:25 < karlp> also, already been said.
2018-10-09T21:02:33 < karlp> also, already been said
2018-10-09T21:02:46 < karlp> you need to read, not just jump in and be authoritative
2018-10-09T21:03:53 < Steffanx> cant you just fuck off Cracki ?
2018-10-09T21:05:30 < jpa-> usually its annoying seeing only one side of a discussion, but this one is quite entertaining :)
2018-10-09T21:09:10 < englishman> haha jpa- 
2018-10-09T21:09:14 < englishman> idk why you use /ignore
2018-10-09T21:09:15 < karlp> yes, you mentioned vcd, I was suggesting that vcd might sound good, but given the amount of bugs in sigrok wrt vcd loading and saving, I'd avoid it.
2018-10-09T21:09:36 < jpa-> englishman: i seem to lack the self control not to take part of useless arguments otherwise
2018-10-09T21:09:54 < englishman> mmm good idea then
2018-10-09T21:10:40 < jpa-> i wrote the first version of vcd loading in sigrok and can affirm that it is a total hack; the "value changes" model of vcd is a poor match for sigrok's fixed samplerate model
2018-10-09T21:12:29 < Steffanx> oh so the saleae i have isnt even supported yet: https://sigrok.org/wiki/Saleae_Logic8 all the effort for nothing.
2018-10-09T21:12:41 < aandrew> I like sigrok for being able to stream shit and process it
2018-10-09T21:13:30 < aandrew> sigrok + $3 FX2LP eval boards = disposable logic analyzers and with a little work they can be debuggers too
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2018-10-09T21:24:45 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Y5m1fKcTE
2018-10-09T21:30:59 < kakimir> hmm maybe I order some FX2
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2018-10-09T21:31:11 < kakimir> I can throw those at prototypes for field testing
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2018-10-09T22:05:03 < zyp> sup?
2018-10-09T22:10:01 < zyp> englishman, did you watch maniac yet? netflix is suggesting it to me now and I'm wondering if I should give it a try
2018-10-09T22:10:10 < englishman> couple episodes in
2018-10-09T22:10:20 < englishman> better than the average netflix pap
2018-10-09T22:10:30 < zyp> cool
2018-10-09T22:10:36 < zyp> I'll give it a try then
2018-10-09T22:11:31 < Steffanx> I looked it up and saw "Comedy , Drama , Sci-Fi", so i skipped it for now.
2018-10-09T22:12:18 < jadew> I watched all 3 episodes
2018-10-09T22:12:32 < zyp> three? it's ten as far as I can see
2018-10-09T22:12:42 < jadew> felt like 3
2018-10-09T22:12:50 < jadew> nothing happens
2018-10-09T22:14:01 < jadew> I'm now being recommended maniac
2018-10-09T22:14:04 < jadew> is it any good?
2018-10-09T22:14:21 < englishman> does not compute
2018-10-09T22:14:22 < zyp> I'm a minute in, I think I already enjoy it
2018-10-09T22:14:33 < Steffanx> lol jadew, you just said nothing happens.
2018-10-09T22:15:11 < jadew> lol, not maniac
2018-10-09T22:15:16 < jadew> I'm being recommended malevolent
2018-10-09T22:15:30 < Steffanx> imdb says its bad.
2018-10-09T22:15:52 < Steffanx> i trust imdb when they say its < 5.
2018-10-09T22:16:13 < Steffanx> but dont rely on ##stm32. Rely on ##imdb
2018-10-09T22:19:01 < englishman> netflix is busy producing content
2018-10-09T22:19:05 < englishman> it doesnt not matter if it is good content
2018-10-09T22:19:51 < zyp> a bunch of it is good though
2018-10-09T22:20:14 < Steffanx> You can always (re)watch Friends.
2018-10-09T22:20:24 < jadew> what surprised me was the quality of the horror films
2018-10-09T22:20:38 < jadew> some of them were much better than I expected (actually enjoyable)
2018-10-09T22:21:54 < jadew> does netflix has a history like youtube?
2018-10-09T22:22:29 < jadew> looks like I've only seen 5 episodes
2018-10-09T22:22:36 < jadew> (from maniac)
2018-10-09T22:23:56 < zyp> this series is full of crts
2018-10-09T22:24:09 < Steffanx> Better tell him when he's around
2018-10-09T22:24:18 < zyp> will do
2018-10-09T22:24:37 < Steffanx> but he doesnt torrent, nor netflix.
2018-10-09T22:24:48 < zyp> not my problem
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2018-10-09T22:25:50 < Steffanx> true.
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2018-10-09T22:33:12 < Thorn> should I put dongs approved ferrite beads on adc Vdd?
2018-10-09T22:33:54 < Thorn> one of the adcs is powered by the battery directly, the other is powered from a 3v3 rail (buck-boost, mcu and sx1276 etc. on it)
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2018-10-09T22:52:45 < zyp> okay, watched first episode
2018-10-09T22:52:54 < zyp> not sure about the story, but I like the setting so far
2018-10-09T22:56:13 < Steffanx> is the humor bad?
2018-10-09T22:56:25 < catphish> what are you attempting to watch?
2018-10-09T22:56:36 < zyp> Steffanx, maybe, but I like it
2018-10-09T22:56:42 < zyp> catphish, maniac
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2018-10-09T22:58:00 < catphish> well that sounds excellent
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2018-10-09T23:54:39 < zyp> still promising after another episode
2018-10-09T23:54:59 < Steffanx> Hm
2018-10-09T23:57:24 < zyp> Jonah Hill lost so much weight
2018-10-09T23:57:34 < zyp> almost didn't recognize him
--- Day changed Wed Oct 10 2018
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2018-10-10T00:09:17 < Steffanx> I guess ill give it a try then
2018-10-10T00:09:36 < karlp> recommendations here and in other channels
2018-10-10T00:09:41  * karlp thinks about suggesting it to the lady
2018-10-10T00:09:46 < karlp> currently busy with ozark though
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2018-10-10T00:17:09 < Thorn> if there are 0Ω resistors. why aren't there 0pF caps
2018-10-10T00:17:35 < jadew> funny
2018-10-10T00:18:52 < Steffanx> 5 or 20% Thorn?
2018-10-10T00:18:57 < jadew> haha
2018-10-10T00:19:21 < antto> 1% or gtfo
2018-10-10T00:19:33 < Steffanx> Im sorry antto 
2018-10-10T00:19:34 < antto> C0G
2018-10-10T00:20:06 < jadew> no
2018-10-10T00:20:11 < antto> no of course
2018-10-10T00:20:22 < jadew> caps are not conductive
2018-10-10T00:20:32 < jadew> a 0 pF cap would be no cap at all
2018-10-10T00:20:39 < jadew> (close to 0 pF)
2018-10-10T00:20:52 < mawk> two infinitely far apart plates
2018-10-10T00:21:10 < antto> but i still want extremely low ESR
2018-10-10T00:21:18 < mawk> but with quantization there might be a finite distance that counts exactly as a 0 pF cap
2018-10-10T00:21:22 < mawk> but it might still be huge
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2018-10-10T00:21:49 < jadew> mawk, it's 14 billion light years
2018-10-10T00:23:05 < jadew> you don't have one available? to measure?
2018-10-10T00:23:26 < antto> my multimeter has like 0.5ohm resistance
2018-10-10T00:23:40 < jadew> I suck at making youtube vides (just made one earlier, that nobody is watching) would you watch a video exploring just that Cracki? :P
2018-10-10T00:23:56 < mawk> what sort of video did you make jadew ?
2018-10-10T00:24:05 < Steffanx> Did you dump it here jadew ?
2018-10-10T00:24:15 < jadew> Steffanx, didn't
2018-10-10T00:24:22 < jadew> it's about those boards I'm selling
2018-10-10T00:24:29 < Steffanx> Your pr is bad
2018-10-10T00:24:30 < jadew> I was suggested to make a video showing them in action
2018-10-10T00:24:49 < jadew> Cracki, the one about the resistor would involve just that :P
2018-10-10T00:24:53 < jadew> yeah
2018-10-10T00:25:41 < jadew> 3 A might not be enough
2018-10-10T00:25:54 < jadew> the wires might eat that up first
2018-10-10T00:26:08 < jadew> I guess if you had good wires... it would work
2018-10-10T00:26:21 < antto> dip it in nitro
2018-10-10T00:26:23 < jadew> I have plenty of 0 ohm resistors, let me measure one
2018-10-10T00:27:31 < jadew> I have them in all sizes (except 0201)
2018-10-10T00:30:56 < jadew> ok, the one I'm measuring now is 0.0085 ohms
2018-10-10T00:32:25 < jadew> and it's rated for 250 mW so it can do 3A
2018-10-10T00:32:38 < jadew> it's a 1206 package
2018-10-10T00:35:04 < jadew> 8.5 mOhm
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2018-10-10T00:36:22 < jadew> want me to blow it up? :D
2018-10-10T00:36:48 < jadew> ok, let's do this
2018-10-10T00:37:51 < mawk> is this correct for measuring huge resistances ? I setup two opamps as a constant current source for around 20 µA, distributing the gain of 300k between both, then just read the voltage drop across the huge resistance with the ADC
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2018-10-10T00:41:54 < jadew> hold on a sec, I don't think it can do 3 A
2018-10-10T00:42:52 < jadew> sqrt(.25 / 8.5e-3) = 5.4A
2018-10-10T00:43:01 < jadew> not yet, I just did the math
2018-10-10T00:43:05 < mawk> in the simulator yes Cracki 
2018-10-10T00:43:06 < jadew> anyway, let's see it in practice
2018-10-10T00:59:18 < jadew> I have it hooked up
2018-10-10T00:59:33 < jadew> give me a sec to set up the thermal camera too (we won't have temperature values tho)
2018-10-10T01:12:20 < jadew> it popped at 10 A
2018-10-10T01:12:29 < jadew> maybe 9...
2018-10-10T01:13:34 < jadew> I forgot to record the thermal images...
2018-10-10T01:14:38 < jadew> yeah, it's 850 mW
2018-10-10T01:16:45 < jadew> hmm, I don't think it popped
2018-10-10T01:16:49 < jadew> it got desoldered
2018-10-10T01:16:59 < jadew> it will need a different test fixture
2018-10-10T01:17:27 < jadew> I'll put it on a PCB, the issue was that I attached wires to it
2018-10-10T01:18:07 < jadew> if it sits on a PCB, even if the solder melts, it should still have contact
2018-10-10T01:18:21 < jadew> (as long as it's flat on the desk)
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2018-10-10T01:22:02 < upgrdman> fucking microchip. those dirty fucking niggers don't even support c99. sprintf, but no snprintf. wtf.
2018-10-10T01:26:36 < upgrdman> yes
2018-10-10T01:46:01 < jadew> Cracki, couldn't pop it
2018-10-10T01:46:11 < jadew> my wires got too hot at 10 A
2018-10-10T01:46:48 < jadew> the power supply was putting out 70 W
2018-10-10T01:47:00 < jadew> I guess I need better wires
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2018-10-10T02:09:21 < jadew> can't find anything on ebay, I guess I'll have to build them myself
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2018-10-10T02:34:21 < kakimir> wow dieselgate was more interesting that I knew
2018-10-10T02:45:16 < kakimir> I lived in sweet denial even after the scandal
2018-10-10T02:45:25 < kakimir> "they will fix it"
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2018-10-10T02:56:20 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/phnxdS0B
2018-10-10T03:01:00 -!- Streake_ [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2018-10-10T03:06:26 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/grTSsJ2r
2018-10-10T03:06:33 < Laurenceb124> holy sheeet
2018-10-10T03:06:45 < Laurenceb124> >just found nerdiest guy from my primary school class
2018-10-10T03:07:04 < Laurenceb124> >he is epic chad guy with 10/10 waifu
2018-10-10T03:07:12 < Laurenceb124> <truly epic fail
2018-10-10T03:07:34 < Laurenceb124> facebook stalking ftl
2018-10-10T03:07:50 < jadew> pictures?
2018-10-10T03:07:55 < jadew> (of wife)
2018-10-10T03:09:18 < Laurenceb124> no tineye 4 u
2018-10-10T03:09:33 < jadew> I don't care about his fb profile...
2018-10-10T03:09:43 < jadew> I just want to see his 10/10 wife
2018-10-10T03:10:31 < Laurenceb124> hmm this isnt him, I fail at facebook stalking
2018-10-10T03:10:47 < jadew> would still like to see the hot wife
2018-10-10T03:10:59 < Laurenceb124> dude find some pronz
2018-10-10T03:11:11 < Laurenceb124> I need to automate facebook stalking, this is getting boring
2018-10-10T03:11:14 < jadew> for the record, I'm now browsing "hot halloween costumes" on google images
2018-10-10T03:17:14 < jadew> ok, time for a horror movie
2018-10-10T03:18:24 < dongs> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/j53ady/snapcrap-app-san-francisco-report-poop-to-311-vgtrn
2018-10-10T03:19:13 < jadew> "piles of human waste" wtf?
2018-10-10T03:19:30 < dongs> ya. SF even publishes heatmaps of wehre there's most shit on the streets
2018-10-10T03:19:39 < jadew> lol
2018-10-10T03:19:52 < dongs> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/18/san-francisco-poop-problem-inequality-homelessness
2018-10-10T03:20:15 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/qNyp0S5X
2018-10-10T03:20:21 < jadew> ah, it's because they're not communists, got it
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2018-10-10T03:45:45 < aandrew> amin yashed lol
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2018-10-10T03:53:33 < Laurenceb124> wew she got released
2018-10-10T03:53:46 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/Q9wWwvPG
2018-10-10T03:53:50 < Laurenceb124> dat ankle tag
2018-10-10T03:55:30 < aandrew> whodat
2018-10-10T03:55:43 < Laurenceb124> an 8chan moderator (she b& me so deserved to go to jail)
2018-10-10T03:56:40 < Laurenceb124> kek
2018-10-10T03:57:13 < Laurenceb124> terrorism, planning to bomb parliament or something autistic
2018-10-10T03:57:41 < Laurenceb124> released to look after their babby, so appears to be actual waman
2018-10-10T03:57:58 < Laurenceb124> crt confirmed as MRA
2018-10-10T03:58:04 < aandrew> nice, they want the 10M25 on that board
2018-10-10T03:58:13 < aandrew> englishman: you sure you don't want to take a crack at assmebly?
2018-10-10T03:58:20 < Laurenceb124> will u be paying ukp400 to go to their shitty conference?
2018-10-10T03:58:21 < aandrew> just prototypes for now
2018-10-10T03:58:43 < englishman> how many pieces?
2018-10-10T03:58:52 < Laurenceb124> >imagine being this new
2018-10-10T03:58:53 < aandrew> they'd want a quote for 5x and 10x
2018-10-10T03:59:19 < Laurenceb124> crt: https://j4mb.org.uk/2018/07/23/icmi18-the-best-icmi-yet/
2018-10-10T03:59:31 < englishman> let's talk about it tomorrow
2018-10-10T03:59:34 < Laurenceb124> >dat photo
2018-10-10T03:59:38 < aandrew> englishman: sure thing
2018-10-10T03:59:45 < Laurenceb124> >still more waman than irl
2018-10-10T03:59:50 < Laurenceb124> crt: DO IT
2018-10-10T03:59:56 < Laurenceb124> *and irc
2018-10-10T04:00:06 < Laurenceb124> enter MRA into ED
2018-10-10T04:01:34 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/QFzsQsW3 wew photoshot
2018-10-10T04:01:39 < Laurenceb124> *photoshop
2018-10-10T04:01:54 < englishman> cool thanks, right now is just not a great time
2018-10-10T04:02:27 < jadew> Laurenceb124, who's that?
2018-10-10T04:02:38 < Laurenceb124> jadew: 8chan waman with photshop
2018-10-10T04:02:56 < Laurenceb124> irl is about 20 years older looking and uglier
2018-10-10T04:03:10 < jadew> can't be that bad
2018-10-10T04:03:19 < Laurenceb124> tfw MRA: https://postimg.cc/bsznGXng
2018-10-10T04:03:21 < dongs> looks like a dude
2018-10-10T04:03:53 < MrMobius> is that a fountain pen or vape thing?
2018-10-10T04:04:05 < dongs> vape of course
2018-10-10T04:04:19 < aandrew> hey dongs what's new
2018-10-10T04:04:24 < dongs> not much
2018-10-10T04:04:30 < dongs> innovating my ass back to taiwan in a couple days
2018-10-10T04:04:42 < aandrew> I'm visiting the homeland in a few days
2018-10-10T04:08:16 < dongs> did you finish routing that aidsboard with via in pad
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2018-10-10T04:09:49 < Laurenceb124> OOOHHHH TOMMY TOMMY TOMMY TOMMY TOMMY TOMMY ROBINSON
2018-10-10T04:14:34 < aandrew> via in pad is life
2018-10-10T04:14:41 < aandrew> you don't need to plug them either
2018-10-10T04:14:44 < dongs> nope its just dumb
2018-10-10T04:14:50 < aandrew> at least if you use 0.2mm vias
2018-10-10T04:14:59 < aandrew> dongs: yes it's done, working on BOM now for englishman
2018-10-10T04:16:08 < aandrew> not sure why you hate on VIP
2018-10-10T04:16:23 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/dhfnmQmw
2018-10-10T04:19:43 < branjb> VIP is a sign of laziness
2018-10-10T04:19:48 < aandrew> lol how
2018-10-10T04:20:04 < branjb> too lazy to escape and drop a via
2018-10-10T04:20:11 < aandrew> hahaha
2018-10-10T04:20:17 < aandrew> it's the best
2018-10-10T04:20:25 < aandrew> no fucking around with little pigtails
2018-10-10T04:20:39 < dongs> shrug
2018-10-10T04:20:45 < dongs> i make one, stick it on clipboard
2018-10-10T04:20:47 < Laurenceb124> oh wow channers have been stalking 8chan waman: she was behind the mummyposting meme
2018-10-10T04:20:52 < dongs> then drop it on every cap around the area
2018-10-10T04:20:57 < Laurenceb124> her bf is 17years old O_o
2018-10-10T04:20:57 < aandrew> yes that's what I do with BGA fanout
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2018-10-10T04:20:59 < dongs> bonus: they all look same and stuff
2018-10-10T04:21:06 < aandrew> and those 5 via clusters I use for big pads
2018-10-10T04:22:38 < aandrew> with bigger vias you gotta do that
2018-10-10T04:22:44 < aandrew> but if there's no need, why bother
2018-10-10T04:22:44 < dongs> https://e2e.ti.com/support/audio/f/6/p/692121/2563669 lmao crt wasn't wrong
2018-10-10T04:23:15 < dongs> o wait its not really audfiophool related
2018-10-10T04:23:23 < dongs> just some shitty package with dumb balls
2018-10-10T04:23:25 < Laurenceb124> audiophool
2018-10-10T04:23:31 < Laurenceb124> I resemble this remark
2018-10-10T04:23:59 < branjb> isn't audfiophool a kind of cult religion?
2018-10-10T04:24:39 < Laurenceb124> muh wambulance mics
2018-10-10T04:26:43 < dongs> its got a DAC too.
2018-10-10T04:26:49 < dongs> instant-fail
2018-10-10T04:27:20 < dongs> must be that uh... SABRE shit
2018-10-10T04:27:23 < dongs> or fuck off
2018-10-10T04:27:27 < dongs> ESS1488
2018-10-10T04:27:34 < Laurenceb124> my mics how have +-0.02dB matching
2018-10-10T04:27:42 < Laurenceb124> good enough audiophool 4 me
2018-10-10T04:28:34 < Laurenceb124> kek
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2018-10-10T04:44:59 < dongs> stoners
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2018-10-10T04:48:08 < dongs> Via in passive pads can cause skewed parts, tombstoning,
2018-10-10T04:48:09 < dongs> opens, solder muck on the back side of the PCB – a lot of
2018-10-10T04:48:09 < dongs> problems. Maybe the parts aren’t as expensive or glamorous as a
2018-10-10T04:48:09 < dongs> big processor or fancy FPGA, but without the passives, you still
2018-10-10T04:48:10 < dongs> aren’t going anywhere. 
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2018-10-10T04:50:08 < aandrew> dongs: again, that ONLY occurs if your paste is wicking into the via
2018-10-10T04:50:16 < aandrew> and with 0.2mm vias and decent paste it just does not happen
2018-10-10T04:50:18 < dongs> but it does, regardless
2018-10-10T04:50:25 < dongs> i'm seeing shit like '6mil vias' dropped 
2018-10-10T04:50:32 < dongs> you're not even close to 6mil
2018-10-10T04:50:36 < dongs> nope
2018-10-10T04:51:27 < dongs> http://screamingcircuits.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/11/01/small_fillet_passive_via_in_pad.jpg
2018-10-10T04:51:31 < dongs> perfect example
2018-10-10T04:51:37 < dongs> the size looks about same as your via too
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2018-10-10T04:52:04 < aandrew> that ain't no 0.2mm via I can guarantee you that
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2018-10-10T04:53:20 < aandrew> well I guess maybe, is that 0402?
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2018-10-10T05:00:55 < dongs> aandrew: anyway i cannot find any positive blogue, old or recent about this.
2018-10-10T05:00:59 < dongs> literally everyone says its shit
2018-10-10T05:01:02 < dongs> common sense says its shit
2018-10-10T05:01:06 < dongs> i'd love to be proven wrong
2018-10-10T05:01:45 < dongs> also vias < .254mm are usually extra cost due to size/drill bit churning
2018-10-10T05:01:49 < aandrew> dunno man, I have made enough boards with it to say that it works. I have to see if I can find a recent IPC spec
2018-10-10T05:02:09 < dongs> and anything 6mil-class is like laser via category
2018-10-10T05:02:12 < aandrew> dongs: maybe 10 years ago; now any boards I get made 0.2mm is not an issue
2018-10-10T05:02:22 < dongs> yes but is it actually 0.2mm
2018-10-10T05:02:38 < aandrew> I think it's drilled 0.2 and then plated a little smaller
2018-10-10T05:02:39 < dongs> if I lazy out and make  board with 0.2mm stuff and they judge it will work wiht 0.254 thats how it will be
2018-10-10T05:03:16 < aandrew> that is a good point, and one I will ask the board house when I quote this
2018-10-10T05:03:19 < dongs> the plating won't be as good for same reasons that you claim solder won't get wicked into it
2018-10-10T05:03:31 < dongs> cuz its "too small" to fit
2018-10-10T05:04:06 < aandrew> well when you're plating it's a different process at work than reflowing into a via
2018-10-10T05:04:31 < aandrew> it could also be drilled bigger and plated down to 0.2m
2018-10-10T05:04:33 < aandrew> 0.2mm
2018-10-10T05:04:37 < aandrew> 0.2m would wick rather badly
2018-10-10T05:04:54 < jadew> what's the topic?
2018-10-10T05:04:59 < dongs> autism, mostly
2018-10-10T05:05:05 < dongs> jadew: < dongs> http://screamingcircuits.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/11/01/small_fillet_passive_via_in_pad.jpg
2018-10-10T05:05:08 < dongs> this is topic
2018-10-10T05:05:17 < jadew> what about it?
2018-10-10T05:05:18 < aandrew> that is a really big pad for that size part too
2018-10-10T05:05:33 < aandrew> but without a ruler it's ahrd to judge scale
2018-10-10T05:06:12 < jadew> I'm not sure what the argument is
2018-10-10T05:06:32 < jadew> one of you isn't happy about via in pad or about small vias?
2018-10-10T05:06:56 < dongs> yeah, via in pad is just bad news
2018-10-10T05:07:02 < dongs> unless you're paying for plugging/polishing
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2018-10-10T05:10:46 < jadew> I've read the same thing, but I'm doing via in pad anyway because I have to and haven't had issues with that yet
2018-10-10T05:11:07 < jadew> but I'm applying paste myself and I think I put a bit more than necessary
2018-10-10T05:11:11 < jadew> so that might help
2018-10-10T05:16:52 < dongs> wow
2018-10-10T05:16:57 < dongs> china clone battery clip fits EXACTLY
2018-10-10T05:17:01 < dongs> much impress
2018-10-10T05:25:56 < aandrew> looks like TIMPRE is 0, so the timer clocks are PCLK1/2 depending on the timer
2018-10-10T05:37:50 < aandrew> hm
2018-10-10T05:38:35 < aandrew> if a timer clock is 54MHz and I want to configure the prescaler so each timer tick is 100ns
2018-10-10T05:39:50 < aandrew> desired tick rate = incoming tick rate * prescaler, right?
2018-10-10T05:40:02 < jadew> dongs, how much gain are you looking for?
2018-10-10T05:40:05 < dongs> you don't, its fractional
2018-10-10T05:40:09 < jadew> (on the radio)
2018-10-10T05:40:14 < aandrew> or rather, output tick rate = clock tick * prescaler
2018-10-10T05:40:15 < dongs> jadew: i donno, anything better than what it currently does
2018-10-10T05:40:29 < dongs> aandrew: no, its divide?
2018-10-10T05:40:35 < aandrew> tick rate, not frequency
2018-10-10T05:40:36 < dongs> i.e. psc of 0 = freq/1
2018-10-10T05:40:59 < aandrew> if the input clock is 54MHz that's 18.5ns tick
2018-10-10T05:40:59 < dongs> ok then donno
2018-10-10T05:41:09 < aandrew> prescaler slows that down so the tick multiplies
2018-10-10T05:41:19 < aandrew> prescaler of two would be a 37ns tick
2018-10-10T05:41:21 < aandrew> etc
2018-10-10T05:41:25 < dongs> yes
2018-10-10T05:41:31 < dongs> 18.52ns btw
2018-10-10T05:41:36 < dongs> so you'll never get it non-fractional
2018-10-10T05:41:39 < aandrew> right
2018-10-10T05:42:39 < aandrew> hm, wonder whyt he fuck my code says otherwise
2018-10-10T05:42:41 < jadew> dongs, ok... here's the thing I thought you could get away with a 6 dB insertion loss, but it needs 2.5 dB more... 3 would probably be ideal
2018-10-10T05:42:47 < aandrew> t->Init.Prescaler = ((2 * src_clk) / 10000000) - 1;
2018-10-10T05:43:04 < jadew> so you'd lose about 9 dB from what you'd gain
2018-10-10T05:43:05 < dongs> jadew: you wel,, there's gonna be insertion loss cuz of connectors right
2018-10-10T05:43:19 < dongs> antenna -> SMA -> amp -> SMA -> pluto
2018-10-10T05:43:21 < aandrew> wonder wtf I was thinking
2018-10-10T05:43:21 < jadew> yeah, but not that much, this would be by design
2018-10-10T05:43:24 < dongs> thats -3 on each end
2018-10-10T05:43:38 < aandrew> that 2xsrc also suggests TIMPRE=1 which I verified it is not
2018-10-10T05:45:09 < jadew> dongs, currently it has this insertion loss: http://79.115.59.210/stuff/test%20-%20small%20sig.png
2018-10-10T05:45:28 < jadew> that's ~6 dB up to 3 GHz and a bit more after that
2018-10-10T05:46:02 < jadew> problem is that it needs more, this is the output with a 20 dBm input: http://79.115.59.210/stuff/test%20-%20limitting.png
2018-10-10T05:46:37 < jadew> it still leaves out ~5 dBm, which is more than 2.5 (what your radio can take)
2018-10-10T05:47:21 < jadew> to solve this I'd have to raise the insertion loss to 9 dB, which would leave you with maybe 10-11 dB of gain from the amplifier you wanted
2018-10-10T05:47:38 < jadew> you could cascade them tho
2018-10-10T05:47:56 < dongs> would doing what BrainDamage said about adding a bandpass filter just for the shit im interested in help
2018-10-10T05:48:15 < jadew> it might reduce your noise floor, yeah
2018-10-10T05:48:53 < aandrew> jadew: what's your VNA?
2018-10-10T05:49:21 < jadew> aandrew, that one is an anritsu lightning
2018-10-10T05:50:24 < jadew> 37247C
2018-10-10T05:52:00 < jadew> it's very big, has its own table
2018-10-10T05:54:17 < jadew> also very loud, I wouldn't mind exchanging it for a HP one
2018-10-10T05:56:47 < jadew> aandrew, you said you had the 8720?
2018-10-10T05:58:54 < branjb> https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=32q9W8aKD4rF0PEPmK698AU&q=american+inventors
2018-10-10T05:59:19 < jadew> lol branjb
2018-10-10T05:59:47 < branjb> >rly jogs the noggin
2018-10-10T06:00:04 < dongs> whats the joke
2018-10-10T06:00:18 < jadew> how many whites do you see?
2018-10-10T06:00:19 < branjb> ask laurenceb
2018-10-10T06:16:45 < aandrew> jadew: I said what?
2018-10-10T06:17:31 < jadew> you didn't say that?
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2018-10-10T06:17:45 < jadew> must have had that convo with someone else
2018-10-10T06:19:21 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2018-10-10T06:20:43 < jadew> I have an economy one from HP, does only one path (no reverse) and I like using that more
2018-10-10T06:22:53 < jadew> got them both on the cheap, so I can't complain
2018-10-10T06:25:21 < dongs> https://custom-media.com/team/ loll that mouseover effect
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2018-10-10T06:26:45 < jadew> dongs, one of them just turned into a pink animal
2018-10-10T06:26:59 < dongs> di it
2018-10-10T06:27:38 < dongs> wtf
2018-10-10T06:27:44 < dongs> yeah C bryan jones
2018-10-10T06:27:46 < dongs> but its random
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2018-10-10T06:29:47 < dongs> ah no
2018-10-10T06:29:48 < dongs> they all do
2018-10-10T06:29:52 < dongs> after like 10=20 mouseovers
2018-10-10T06:29:55 < dongs> it'll randomly cahnge to taht shti
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2018-10-10T07:08:27 < aandrew> anyone have an stm32f4 or better reference manual handy? look at RCC_DCKFGR1, the TIMPRE bit
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2018-10-10T07:09:02 < aandrew> is it a documentation error that it says that if TIMPRE=1 and PPREx is <= 4 that the timer clock is *H*CLK?
2018-10-10T07:09:09 < dongs> no
2018-10-10T07:09:53 < aandrew> all the other configurations talk about timer clock in relation to the feeding PCLK, but TIMPRE=1 talks about HCLK
2018-10-10T07:14:38 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/vIVdAKf that's the relevant bit of the clock routing diagram
2018-10-10T07:15:26 < aandrew> oh nvm there are notes at the bottom of that diagram on the next pge
2018-10-10T07:16:03 < aandrew> When TIMPRE bit of the RCC_DCKFGR1 register is reset, if APBx prescaler is 1, then TIMxCLK = PCLKx, otherwise TIMxCLK = 2x PCLKx.
2018-10-10T07:16:07 < aandrew> When TIMPRE bit in the RCC_DCKCFGR1 register is set, if APBx prescaler is 1,2 or 4, then TIMxCLK = HCLK, otherwise TIMxCLK = 4x PCLKx.
2018-10-10T07:16:32 < sykemyke> any errata pdf's on st web?
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2018-10-10T07:25:49 < aandrew> yeah bitches
2018-10-10T07:26:07 < aandrew> now the timer tick is the same no matter which timer nor how the system clocking is
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2018-10-10T09:04:51 < dongs> haha
2018-10-10T09:04:56 < dongs> he's been quiet
2018-10-10T09:04:58 < dongs> just retweeting garbage
2018-10-10T09:05:41 < dongs> o shit i got added to STM32 EXPERTS on dicked-ion
2018-10-10T09:05:43 < dongs> in
2018-10-10T09:06:01 < dongs> Does anyone know of any code or examples for controlling an SPI e-ink screen connected to an STM32?
2018-10-10T09:06:04 < dongs> Or even some good SPI examples in general. We are pretty new to STM32 development. Currently getting up to speed on STM32CubeMX and TrueStudio.
2018-10-10T09:06:07 < dongs> ok yea looks pretty dead
2018-10-10T09:06:10 < dongs> last post 2 month ago
2018-10-10T09:06:36 < dongs> <reedman> As a speaker at Black Hat EU 2018 in London 3rd to 6th December, I have two free student passes for the briefings. Let me know if you are interested and I can forward your contact info to the Black Hat organisers so you can get your pass. A few criteria apply so see the Black Hat website for eligibility criteria.
2018-10-10T09:07:29 < dongs> https://twitter.com/angus_tx/status/1045808929765306374?s=19
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2018-10-10T09:47:49 < malinus> dongs: this is a very active channel imho., last post before yours were 15min before.
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2018-10-10T11:35:44 < Thorn> on the perils of talking shit on IRC https://youtu.be/mpFEGIv8lCo?t=1367
2018-10-10T11:38:37 < dongs> whats the tldr
2018-10-10T11:41:00 < Thorn> "don't be a dick" as the slide says
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2018-10-10T11:55:19 < dongs> ah
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2018-10-10T12:17:30 < Ecco> hi :)
2018-10-10T12:17:50 < Ecco> I'm running into a weird issue when building with LTO
2018-10-10T12:18:13 < Ecco> For some reason, the compiler decides my "start" function should push backup VFP registers onto the stack
2018-10-10T12:18:29 < Ecco> which triggers an abort (I guess since the FPU wasn't initialized)
2018-10-10T12:18:40 < Ecco> Would you guys have any idea why this might be happening?
2018-10-10T12:18:47 < zyp> is your start function doing any FP calcs?
2018-10-10T12:18:57 < Ecco> zyp: nope…
2018-10-10T12:19:11 < dongs> uh
2018-10-10T12:19:37 < Ecco> As a side optimization (which might as well fix the bug), is there a way to tell the compiler that this is somewhat a "raw" function and that backuping register is pointless?
2018-10-10T12:19:50 < zyp> __attribute__((naked)) or something like that
2018-10-10T12:20:15 < zyp> although I think you're only supposed to do that for functions only containing inline assembly
2018-10-10T12:20:21 < zyp> read up on the function attributes
2018-10-10T12:20:32 < Ecco> yeah, that's what I was reading
2018-10-10T12:20:41 < kakimir> after I write one byte in I2C I want to continue from another buffer or start read without stop condition
2018-10-10T12:20:51 < kakimir> how would you implement such?
2018-10-10T12:20:54 < zyp> I'd like to try reproducing your issue, but I'm about to leave
2018-10-10T12:21:15 < kakimir> additional parameter for i2c_write that there is no stop condition?
2018-10-10T12:21:24 < zyp> if you're still around in a couple of hours, maybe I can take a look
2018-10-10T12:21:52 < Ecco> zyp: who are you talking to? me?
2018-10-10T12:22:43 < kakimir> nah man
2018-10-10T12:23:03 < kakimir> but I can just leave i2c without stop condition and start new write or read?
2018-10-10T12:23:26 < kakimir> it would be way too simple
2018-10-10T12:25:42 < dongs> what
2018-10-10T12:28:00 < kakimir> but yeah
2018-10-10T12:28:11 < kakimir> i2c state machine doesn't really know
2018-10-10T12:31:09 < kakimir> maybe I need to read
2018-10-10T12:31:45 < dongs> repeated start is a thing but really 99% if not 100% of devices work totally fine with start, address+W,subaddress, stop, start, address+R, read, stop
2018-10-10T12:31:55 < Ecco> ok, so marking the reset handler as naked does indeed remove the prologue/epilogue
2018-10-10T12:32:06 < Ecco> That's in fact exactly what attribute(naked) does
2018-10-10T12:32:07 < dongs> why is your reset handler not in asm
2018-10-10T12:32:18 < Ecco> and as a side effect, it's very unsafe for most C functions
2018-10-10T12:32:28 < Ecco> dongs: why should it?
2018-10-10T12:32:56 < Ecco> I always assumed compilers were better than me at writing asm
2018-10-10T12:33:27 < dongs> its not like you need anything in reset vector beyond bx __main or wahtever
2018-10-10T12:33:44 < dongs> or why are you even writing that shit at all
2018-10-10T12:33:52 < dongs> there's startup files in stdperiphlib/keil
2018-10-10T12:33:54 < dongs> why autism
2018-10-10T12:33:56 < dongs> when it already works
2018-10-10T12:34:14 < Ecco> to understand what's really going on?
2018-10-10T12:38:32 < invzim_> i2c sux
2018-10-10T12:49:16 < Thorn> st-link/v3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IPGYHmU-2s
2018-10-10T12:50:21 < dongs> oh, its the neoden guy
2018-10-10T12:52:06 < karlp> it just adds built in usb2spi/usb2i2c stuff right?
2018-10-10T12:52:45 < dongs> or something?
2018-10-10T12:52:48 < dongs> and different shape
2018-10-10T12:53:07 < dongs> still slow, and IAR debug perspective switch looks fucking GROSS
2018-10-10T12:53:11 < dongs> i mean keil is slow but damn
2018-10-10T12:53:14 < dongs> IAR looks fucking terrible
2018-10-10T12:55:07 < oz4ga> iar has always been an eye soar
2018-10-10T12:56:45 < oz4ga> man the music and that voice in you tube video. st-link/v3 for sure isn't the 8th vonder of the world :|
2018-10-10T12:57:30 < oz4ga> but hey it "something new" from ST ....
2018-10-10T12:57:34 < kakimir> is the thing caller restart when I don't set stop?
2018-10-10T12:57:37 < kakimir> called
2018-10-10T12:58:25 < kakimir> after I learned i2c I kinda like it
2018-10-10T12:58:43 < kakimir> some might argue.. "learned"
2018-10-10T13:05:50 -!- qyx_ [~qyx@gw2.krtko.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2018-10-10T13:11:22 < kakimir> okay direction change needs repeated start
2018-10-10T13:13:56 < jpa-> https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/338849/libreoffice-doesnt-have-an-icon     the quality of open sores graphics design leaves mac users dumbfounded :)
2018-10-10T13:18:36 < kakimir> why would repeated start have it's own interrupt flag?
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2018-10-10T13:19:07 < kakimir> just that you know it's repeated start if you didn't order one, or that if you don't get repeated start if you ordered one?
2018-10-10T13:21:16 < mawk> bad freenode
2018-10-10T13:21:18 < mawk> which changed the SSL cert fingerprints
2018-10-10T13:21:20 < mawk> now I lost my uptime
2018-10-10T13:22:39 < kakimir> I didn't understand
2018-10-10T13:28:26 < kakimir> btw. if you want do multiple reads/writes with i2c slave
2018-10-10T13:28:36 < kakimir> can you just use repeated start?
2018-10-10T13:28:58 < kakimir> no need for stops
2018-10-10T13:29:00 < kakimir> ?
2018-10-10T13:29:32 < kakimir> I mean do all i2c chips support such way of communications
2018-10-10T13:29:53 < kakimir> or any
2018-10-10T13:32:09 < kakimir> it is a standard way for chips to operate?
2018-10-10T13:32:29 < kakimir> they don't get confused of no STOPs
2018-10-10T13:32:42 < kakimir> interestings
2018-10-10T13:33:23 < kakimir> some chips may require restart for certain operations right?
2018-10-10T13:33:43 < kakimir> have you used TSL 2561?
2018-10-10T13:33:59 < kakimir> lux meter
2018-10-10T13:34:15 < kakimir> as dongs said
2018-10-10T13:34:29 < kakimir> thanks for help
2018-10-10T13:34:35 < kakimir> back to codez>
2018-10-10T13:35:33 < kakimir> as long as I keep it simple
2018-10-10T13:35:43 < kakimir> one master
2018-10-10T13:35:57 < kakimir> it's going to be fun
2018-10-10T13:36:19 < kakimir> one master one slave is ideal situation
2018-10-10T13:36:37 < kakimir> I'm not ready for multiple slaves
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2018-10-10T13:37:36 < karlp> sykemyke: errata are in the same section of the st website, resources -> technical literature -> errata, 
2018-10-10T13:37:43 < karlp> right beside where you get the RM and datasheet
2018-10-10T13:38:29 < kakimir> can you buy those seals from ebays or so?
2018-10-10T13:39:12 < kakimir> have a swing with it and then butt it back together and ship it to warranity
2018-10-10T13:44:38 < englishman> Thorn: lol, doxxed in a quake channel and still talking shit
2018-10-10T13:44:58 < kakimir> does it matter if there is delay between ack and repeated start?
2018-10-10T13:45:14 < kakimir> ack/nack
2018-10-10T13:46:16 < kakimir> I mean I can set STA bit and first thing after ACK it transmits repeated start
2018-10-10T13:47:58 < kakimir> but it really doesn't make any sense I should have my data buffer ready at the moment
2018-10-10T13:48:09 < kakimir> in interrupt handler
2018-10-10T13:48:45 < kakimir> too complicated
2018-10-10T13:49:14 < kakimir> I should have queue system
2018-10-10T13:53:47 < englishman> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/charleswongzx/notch-the-only-notch-for-your-devices
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2018-10-10T13:59:03 < karlp> can you not read?
2018-10-10T14:00:04 < kakimir> not a scam
2018-10-10T14:03:34 < kakimir> slave can not set NACK during master reading from it?
2018-10-10T14:03:54 < kakimir> at least I don't have interrupt flag directly implying it
2018-10-10T14:08:31 < karlp> what's meant to happen when you mouseover these team pics too many times?
2018-10-10T14:12:30 < Ecco> Meh
2018-10-10T14:12:37 < Ecco> "ldr    r5, [r3, #0]" triggers an abort
2018-10-10T14:16:31 < Ecco> Apprently CFSR sais IMPRECISERR. No idea what this means :(
2018-10-10T14:40:04 < kakimir> only shortcut to remember in eclipse is ctrl+shift+L
2018-10-10T14:56:13 < kakimir> I need new tunes
2018-10-10T14:58:54 < kakimir> not that dark shit
2018-10-10T14:59:01 < kakimir> but anything else
2018-10-10T14:59:18 < kakimir> how much malloc actually uses mem
2018-10-10T14:59:30 < kakimir> if it's just few bytes
2018-10-10T14:59:42 < kakimir> something like 1 to 12bytes
2018-10-10T15:00:10 < kakimir> can malloc actually use more mem to allocate that mem
2018-10-10T15:00:39 < kakimir> malloc has some sort of bookkeeping in it doesn't it?
2018-10-10T15:03:53 < kakimir> I don do c++
2018-10-10T15:04:49 < jadew> Thorn, that guy is an idiot
2018-10-10T15:05:38 < jadew> TLDR: "don't talk shit about companies or other people, because you might want to suck up to them at some point and you won't be able to because of the crap you talked"
2018-10-10T15:05:50 < jadew> I wouldn't hire that douchebag for that statement alone
2018-10-10T15:05:53 < jadew> what a fucking pussy
2018-10-10T15:06:49 < kakimir> Haohmaru: interesting
2018-10-10T15:07:10 < jadew> exactly, what kind of a low life do you have to be to talk shit about something but secretly want to be part of that
2018-10-10T15:07:28 < kakimir> jadew: oppoturnist
2018-10-10T15:07:51 < kakimir> worst kind of trash?
2018-10-10T15:08:08 < kakimir> ^
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2018-10-10T15:14:11  * Ecco can't figure out where this hardfault is coming from :(
2018-10-10T15:14:47 < Ecco> r3 = 0x200012dc, and "ldr r5,[r3,#0]" crashes :(
2018-10-10T15:15:12 < karlp> do you have ram there?
2018-10-10T15:15:23 < karlp> just checking the basics
2018-10-10T15:16:00 < Ecco> well… yeah :-D Supposedly
2018-10-10T15:16:07 < jadew> kakimir, I have only dealt with malloc/free only a couple of times, but I assume it's implementation specific
2018-10-10T15:16:18 < Ecco> inspecting it with GDB seems to be working
2018-10-10T15:17:09 < Ecco> and it's right in the RAM address space
2018-10-10T15:17:15 < jadew> the OS will usually give your program memory in blocks and then your program can put its stuff there
2018-10-10T15:17:20 < Ecco> (0x20000000 - 0x2003FFFF)
2018-10-10T15:20:44 < Ecco> oh wait
2018-10-10T15:20:57 < kakimir> hyperdrive
2018-10-10T15:20:57 < Ecco> apparnetly the error reported is "async", meaning a previous instruction can be the culprit
2018-10-10T15:21:10 < kakimir> redbull+4cups of coffee
2018-10-10T15:21:20 < kakimir> I start feeling like something is happening
2018-10-10T15:21:29 < Ecco> :_D
2018-10-10T15:21:44 < kakimir> not quite yet
2018-10-10T15:21:52 < kakimir> I feel normal now
2018-10-10T15:23:11 < jadew> I think I haven't had a redbull in 10 years
2018-10-10T15:24:13 < jadew> haha
2018-10-10T15:24:31 < PaulFertser> Ecco: imprecise means it happened few instructions before
2018-10-10T15:26:32 < kakimir> why there is no interrupt for such Cracki ?
2018-10-10T15:26:41 < kakimir> I mean status flag
2018-10-10T15:26:51 < Ecco> PaulFertser: Indeed, I figured out what went wrong :)
2018-10-10T15:27:05 < Ecco> A previous store at a meaningless address because SP made no sense because attribute(naked)
2018-10-10T15:27:09 < Ecco> thank you PaulFertser :)
2018-10-10T15:27:11 < kakimir> sounds more important than to know if start or restart happened
2018-10-10T15:27:21 < kakimir> just for an example
2018-10-10T15:27:43 < jadew> kakimir, what IC doesn't have a flag for that?
2018-10-10T15:27:50 < kakimir> LPC1111
2018-10-10T15:28:01 < jadew> are you sure you're not missing something?
2018-10-10T15:28:07 < kakimir> or I'm dumdum
2018-10-10T15:28:19 < Ecco> PaulFertser: By the way, would you happen to know why the compiler wants to save VFP register to the stack for a function that doesn't manipulate VFP registers?
2018-10-10T15:28:25 < Ecco> This happens only when enabling LTO
2018-10-10T15:28:34 < Ecco> And is there a way to make sure this doesn't happen?
2018-10-10T15:28:59 < kakimir> user manual page 263
2018-10-10T15:29:21 < kakimir> it has master receive mode status codes
2018-10-10T15:30:17 < jadew> SLA+R has been
2018-10-10T15:30:18 < jadew> transmitted; ACK has
2018-10-10T15:30:18 < jadew> been received.
2018-10-10T15:30:22 < jadew> SLA+R has been
2018-10-10T15:30:22 < jadew> transmitted; NOT ACK
2018-10-10T15:30:22 < jadew> has been received.
2018-10-10T15:30:36 < jadew> status 0x40 and 0x48
2018-10-10T15:30:41 < kakimir> meaning address + bit
2018-10-10T15:30:49 < kakimir> but during data reception
2018-10-10T15:30:56 < jadew> also, 0x50 and 0x58 for receive
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2018-10-10T15:31:36 < kakimir> jadew: ACK and NACK have been _returned_ in those last 2 cases
2018-10-10T15:31:56 < jadew> kakimir, NACK means that ACK has not been received
2018-10-10T15:32:00 < kakimir> see next page
2018-10-10T15:32:03 < jadew> it's bit 4
2018-10-10T15:32:55 < jadew> when it's set, it means you got the ACK
2018-10-10T15:32:59 < jadew> when it isn't, you didn't
2018-10-10T15:33:15 < jadew> (so NACK)
2018-10-10T15:33:23 < kakimir> AA bit can tell me?
2018-10-10T15:34:25 < kakimir> interesting
2018-10-10T15:35:25 < jadew> I just told you, it's bit 4
2018-10-10T15:36:11 < jadew> (from the status)
2018-10-10T15:36:22 < jadew> oh, it's the other way tho, 1 = NACK, 0 = ACK
2018-10-10T15:37:15 < kakimir> but there is no way to know if slave sets NACK during data transfer in master receiver case
2018-10-10T15:37:35 < jadew> that would be status 0x58
2018-10-10T15:37:41 < kakimir> no
2018-10-10T15:38:00 < kakimir> it means master has returned NACK
2018-10-10T15:38:09 < PaulFertser> Ecco: hm, I'm afraid no idea, probably it calls other functions?
2018-10-10T15:38:17 < kakimir> see next page jadew 
2018-10-10T15:38:21 < jadew> ah, you're right
2018-10-10T15:38:25 < jadew> then 0x48
2018-10-10T15:38:33 < kakimir> grey is master and white is slave
2018-10-10T15:38:36 < jadew> SLA+R has been transmitted; NOT ACK has been received.
2018-10-10T15:39:07 < kakimir> SLA = address R = read bit
2018-10-10T15:39:13 < kakimir> that is not data byte
2018-10-10T15:39:25 < kakimir> anyway
2018-10-10T15:39:40 < jadew> are you sure it doesn't have both meanings
2018-10-10T15:39:41 < jadew> ?
2018-10-10T15:39:42 < kakimir> I don't even know if I'm making a problem of thing that is not a problem
2018-10-10T15:39:48 < kakimir> jadew: how would I be sure?
2018-10-10T15:39:59 < kakimir> it could be
2018-10-10T15:40:53 < jadew> ah, ffs
2018-10-10T15:41:03 < jadew> in master receiver mode THE MASTER SENDS THE ACK
2018-10-10T15:41:10 < jadew> you managed to confuse me
2018-10-10T15:41:27 < kakimir> it's the LPC
2018-10-10T15:41:35 < jadew> there's no ACK to receive
2018-10-10T15:41:35 < kakimir> not me
2018-10-10T15:41:53 < kakimir> am I making a problem of thing that is not a problem?
2018-10-10T15:41:59 < kakimir> Cracki: done
2018-10-10T15:42:29 < kakimir> iirc. all chips I have seen just put out bytes until master stops
2018-10-10T15:42:53 < kakimir> what happens when registers end is unspecified operation
2018-10-10T15:43:03 < kakimir> probs just lot of 0 and NACK
2018-10-10T15:43:34 < kakimir> stops responding resulting in 0 and NACK
2018-10-10T15:43:35 < jadew> kakimir, the master should stop asking for more data if it doesn't need it
2018-10-10T15:43:53 < kakimir> and it does
2018-10-10T15:43:58 < jadew> it should also stop asking for more data if it gets a NACK from the slave (when reading from the slave)
2018-10-10T15:44:08 < kakimir> cannot do
2018-10-10T15:44:45 < jadew> sorry, when writing to the slave
2018-10-10T15:44:52 < kakimir> can do
2018-10-10T15:45:13 < jadew> hmm...
2018-10-10T15:45:16 < jadew> maybe I'm wrong
2018-10-10T15:45:34 < jadew> yeah, I think I am, I think even in master receiver you should receive an ACK
2018-10-10T15:46:04 < jadew> you shouldn't, but yeah, the ACK is only returned by the slave
2018-10-10T15:46:08 < jpa-> nah, when master is receiving, it pulls down the data line for the ACK period; the slave cannot send a NACK in any way
2018-10-10T15:46:20 < jadew> jpa-, even when receiving?
2018-10-10T15:46:29 < jpa-> only when master is receiving
2018-10-10T15:46:35 < jadew> isn't the NACK the way in which the slave communicates that it has no data?
2018-10-10T15:46:44 < jpa-> AFAIK no
2018-10-10T15:47:00 < jadew> jpa-, there's no point in the master sending the NACK tho
2018-10-10T15:47:04 < kakimir> sweet
2018-10-10T15:47:10 < jadew> because the master controls the communication
2018-10-10T15:47:12 < kakimir> problem solved
2018-10-10T15:47:24 < jadew> so it doesn't care if the slave knows about the NACK issue
2018-10-10T15:47:25 < kakimir> conclusion: there was no problem
2018-10-10T15:47:32 < jadew> kakimir, I think there is
2018-10-10T15:47:35 < jpa-> jadew: yeah, i'm not sure why it is designed that way
2018-10-10T15:47:44 < kakimir> i2c is smart stuff
2018-10-10T15:47:56 < jadew> I'll have to check my notes, but I think the slave does send ACK when you're reading from it
2018-10-10T15:48:24 < jadew> just so you can read until there's no more info available
2018-10-10T15:51:03 < jpa-> http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva704/slva704.pdf   section 3.2 Reading From a Slave On The I2C Bus:  "At the end of every byte of data, the master will send an ACK to the slave, letting the slave
2018-10-10T15:51:03 < jpa-> know that it is ready for more data.
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2018-10-10T15:52:04 < jpa-> i guess part of the reason is that if the slave would also send the ACK bit, it might hold the SDA line down and there would be no way for the master to send STOP
2018-10-10T15:53:14 < kakimir> the curse of white shirt
2018-10-10T15:53:28 < kakimir> now it's brown
2018-10-10T15:53:53 < kakimir> it was just washed
2018-10-10T15:54:31 < jadew> ok, looks like my code is implemented in the same way
2018-10-10T15:54:39 < jadew> the master sends the ACK, which is very weird
2018-10-10T15:54:45 < englishman> stay off those redbulls kakimir
2018-10-10T15:54:54 < englishman> your dick will shrink to USA size
2018-10-10T15:54:59 < jadew> and you're supposed to send NACK when you know it's the last byte you read
2018-10-10T15:55:17 < Laurenceb124> http://magaimg.net/img/6en4.jpg
2018-10-10T15:57:46 < jadew> and yeah, you're right about why it's doing it, it's because it needs a way to tell the slave it needs the next byte too
2018-10-10T16:00:59 < kakimir> Laurenceb124: weird stuff
2018-10-10T16:02:08 < jadew> does hair show up on x-ray? because it looks like they're shaved
2018-10-10T16:02:16 < kakimir> not really
2018-10-10T16:03:20 < jadew> they're in the order of looseness
2018-10-10T16:03:35 < jadew> first one is the tightest, then the second one and the 3rd one is super loose
2018-10-10T16:03:41 < Laurenceb124> you have to admire the skeletal beauty too
2018-10-10T16:04:10 < BrainDamage> what kind of contest is it? miss cancer 1957?
2018-10-10T16:06:25 < kakimir> #define GENERATE_MASK(SHIFT_LEFT_STEPS, MASK_N_BITS)	( ((1 << MASK_N_BITS) - 1) << SHIFT_LEFT_STEPS )															//Generate mask. ie: SHIFT_LEFT_STEPS: 3, MASK_N_BITS: 2 should generate ..00011000
2018-10-10T16:06:45 < kakimir> I don't understand how this works when SHIFT_LEFT_STEPS is 0
2018-10-10T16:07:12 < kakimir> - 1 takes the LSB right
2018-10-10T16:09:05 < kakimir> good
2018-10-10T16:09:16 < kakimir> (1<<1)-1 is?
2018-10-10T16:09:42 < kakimir> 0b0010 right?
2018-10-10T16:11:31 < kakimir> whoops
2018-10-10T16:12:01 < kakimir> left shift pads with zero
2018-10-10T16:13:17 < kakimir> now I understand it completelly
2018-10-10T16:13:33 < kakimir> sweet
2018-10-10T16:15:30 < kakimir> good luck with my most significant ear
2018-10-10T16:16:19 < englishman> aandrew: boop me when you're around
2018-10-10T16:27:11 < kakimir> if I make an union of uint8_t [2] and uint16_t is there specified way that one in uint8_t array is most significant byte and another is least significant byte?
2018-10-10T16:27:56 < kakimir> and should I avoid doing such thing instead of just line of code that does bitshift to right place?
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2018-10-10T16:35:02 < kakimir> so I just do a function
2018-10-10T16:35:12 < kakimir> can't get that wrong
2018-10-10T16:35:19 < kakimir> sensor data is in bytes
2018-10-10T16:35:44 < kakimir> but there is 16bits data per channel
2018-10-10T16:36:02 < kakimir> I need to convert it in one way so function will do
2018-10-10T16:37:23 < kakimir> Cracki: done already
2018-10-10T16:38:12 < kakimir> uint16_t return_value = (most_significant_byte << 8) | least_significant_byte;
2018-10-10T16:38:31 < kakimir> maybe I should use keywords high and low
2018-10-10T16:39:17 < kakimir> why would shift be cheap?
2018-10-10T16:39:34 < kakimir> I think anything but floats are cheap
2018-10-10T16:40:35 < kakimir> Cracki: how about pic?
2018-10-10T16:40:38 < kakimir> same deal?
2018-10-10T16:41:16 < kakimir> most likelly if I do anything in AVR - I'm not in hurruy
2018-10-10T16:41:19 < kakimir> hurry
2018-10-10T16:41:32 < kakimir> I tried to touch it
2018-10-10T16:41:49 < kakimir> at works
2018-10-10T16:57:15 < jadew> https://www.aviationcv.com/aviation-blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/43F076BD00000578-0-image-a-1_1504634533040.jpg
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2018-10-10T16:59:18 < kakimir> fake and lame
2018-10-10T17:00:10 < kakimir> jadew: he only lacks piles of money and hot mistresses in that cabin
2018-10-10T17:00:30 < kakimir> but editing stuff behind window is hard
2018-10-10T17:00:36 < jadew> kakimir, of course it's fake, but it's still funny
2018-10-10T17:05:54 < kakimir> this is men's version of photoshopping bigger boobs to make other women jelious
2018-10-10T17:06:35 < kakimir> that is a good idea
2018-10-10T17:06:48 < kakimir> very cool
2018-10-10T17:07:06 < BrainDamage> he already failed hard when he got the wind effect on the hair backwards
2018-10-10T17:07:50 < jadew> haha
2018-10-10T17:07:56 < BrainDamage> it should be slanted to the right, not the left
2018-10-10T17:08:18 < kakimir> there are better edits out there
2018-10-10T17:09:01 < jadew> at that speed it should be following the line of his skull
2018-10-10T17:09:37 < Thorn> https://www.instagram.com/p/BowV6L0gOrP/
2018-10-10T17:09:43 < kakimir> he would be sucked out
2018-10-10T17:10:14 < BrainDamage> how come so many russians have giant felines
2018-10-10T17:10:17 < englishman> Thorn > jadew 
2018-10-10T17:10:23 < BrainDamage> and why can't I have one
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2018-10-10T17:10:51 < jadew> another mouth to feed
2018-10-10T17:11:01 < Thorn> the photos are 1 year apart
2018-10-10T17:11:07 < BrainDamage> well, it can feed itself if you train it well
2018-10-10T17:11:30 < BrainDamage> you just have to teach it the taste of human meat
2018-10-10T17:11:44 < jadew> and where the children play
2018-10-10T17:12:14 < englishman> did you see the wild tendies https://i.imgur.com/7I9gIz6.jpg
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2018-10-10T17:12:56 < catphish> yay china are back from holiday :) https://i.imgur.com/EajrHR8.jpg
2018-10-10T17:13:27 < dongs> nfc dongs
2018-10-10T17:13:32 < BrainDamage> I would've rotated the waves in your rf dick logo
2018-10-10T17:13:38 < dongs> that qfp footprint looks terrible
2018-10-10T17:13:49 < dongs> oh right kikecad
2018-10-10T17:13:53 < catphish> yeah they don't do a great job on them
2018-10-10T17:14:56 < catphish> hopefuly it works anyway
2018-10-10T17:14:57 < jadew> dongs, what's wrong with it?
2018-10-10T17:15:06 < dongs> jadew: pads are huge
2018-10-10T17:15:24 < Sadale> catphish, what does that board do?
2018-10-10T17:15:31 < dongs> lurk moar
2018-10-10T17:15:33 < dongs> fgt
2018-10-10T17:15:37 < BrainDamage> maxi pads, to handle the strongest of the (re)flows
2018-10-10T17:16:00 < catphish> Sadale: it writes a timestamp onto an NFC tag
2018-10-10T17:16:05 < Sadale> ahh. cool! :)
2018-10-10T17:16:14 < BrainDamage> so what timekeeping system did you pick in the end?
2018-10-10T17:16:16 < catphish> for sports timing
2018-10-10T17:16:20 < BrainDamage> cuckoo clock?
2018-10-10T17:17:01 < catphish> BrainDamage: for now - manual adjustment, timekeeping with a https://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/DS32kHz-DS32KHZS.pdf
2018-10-10T17:17:13 < catphish> hopefully it sucks minimally
2018-10-10T17:17:15 < BrainDamage> actually, that gives me an idea
2018-10-10T17:17:54 < BrainDamage> geolocation by comparing daylight averages with calendar predicted
2018-10-10T17:18:12 < BrainDamage> if you average over an year you should get decent-ish latitude estimation
2018-10-10T17:18:21 < catphish> Haohmaru: yes
2018-10-10T17:18:28 < dongs> yea allpcb
2018-10-10T17:18:42 < catphish> they're "good enough" and fast
2018-10-10T17:18:59 < jadew> catphish, they must have made the board before the holidays
2018-10-10T17:19:07 < catphish> jadew: no, after
2018-10-10T17:19:14 < jadew> really?
2018-10-10T17:19:27 < jadew> my order @ elecrow is still "in production"
2018-10-10T17:19:29 < jadew> for 3 days
2018-10-10T17:19:36 < BrainDamage> they just hate you
2018-10-10T17:19:55 < catphish> jadew: allpcb do 24 hour production (when they're not on holiday)
2018-10-10T17:20:05 < catphish> my last order arrived in 72 hours
2018-10-10T17:20:16 < englishman> pay for shit, get shit
2018-10-10T17:20:26 < dongs> lol elecrow
2018-10-10T17:20:28 < catphish> quality is "acceptable" :)
2018-10-10T17:20:36 < dongs> catphish: next time try OSP coating
2018-10-10T17:20:39 < dongs> it only adds like $3 to the board
2018-10-10T17:20:45 < dongs> but looks way better + easier to handsolder
2018-10-10T17:20:53 < catphish> dongs: i'm not hand solering
2018-10-10T17:20:57 < catphish> but i'll check it out
2018-10-10T17:21:03 < dongs> well, easier to *solder
2018-10-10T17:21:07 < catphish> cool
2018-10-10T17:21:09 < dongs> hasl is fucking terrible all around
2018-10-10T17:21:29 < jadew> dongs, elecrow is better than seeed
2018-10-10T17:21:34 < jadew> seeed/itead
2018-10-10T17:21:36 < catphish> my soldering still isn't perfect, bridges and floating QFNs :)
2018-10-10T17:21:38 < catphish> but i'll get there
2018-10-10T17:21:47 < dongs> seed/itead isnt even in the equation anymore
2018-10-10T17:21:52 < dongs> who teh fuck still cares/uses them
2018-10-10T17:22:00 < dongs> they're ancient MAKE:R trash peddlers
2018-10-10T17:22:10 < catphish> jlpcb seem popular, not tried them myself
2018-10-10T17:22:23 < jadew> jlpcb is popular because of the advertising
2018-10-10T17:22:31 < catphish> they do advertise a lot
2018-10-10T17:22:46 < jadew> but it's the same shit and their prices are the same or even more expensive
2018-10-10T17:22:54 < jadew> the $2 thing is bullshit
2018-10-10T17:23:00 < catphish> well hopefully this board works and i can stop making prototypes and focus on software
2018-10-10T17:23:10 < jadew> haven't ordered from allpcb yet
2018-10-10T17:23:21 < englishman> all the same chinese garbage
2018-10-10T17:23:22 < jadew> do they put a little number on the boards?
2018-10-10T17:23:29 < catphish> i like allpcb because of their $20 with priority shipping thing
2018-10-10T17:23:30 < dongs> they all do
2018-10-10T17:23:33 < catphish> jadew: yes
2018-10-10T17:23:35 < jadew> elecrow does not
2018-10-10T17:23:37 < englishman> they all do because they are all the same
2018-10-10T17:23:46 < dongs> enjoy waiting weeks for your boards.
2018-10-10T17:23:51 < jadew> haha
2018-10-10T17:24:15 < catphish> if i actually want to mass produce anything i'll pay more attention to quality and less to tiemscale
2018-10-10T17:24:28 < catphish> allpcb + dhl can be very fast, 72 hours for my last one
2018-10-10T17:24:38 < jadew> really? that's fantastic
2018-10-10T17:24:47 < jadew> where do you live?
2018-10-10T17:24:49 < catphish> UK
2018-10-10T17:24:54 < catphish> more commonly it takes about a week
2018-10-10T17:25:04 < jadew> dhl here will drag you on for at least a couple of days until you finish the customs proceedings
2018-10-10T17:25:19 < catphish> dhl here just pay everything upfront
2018-10-10T17:25:43 < catphish> i'm currently arguing with DHL because they overcharged me by about 4x on VAT for my last delivery
2018-10-10T17:25:47 < jadew> I'll give allpcb a try next
2018-10-10T17:25:57 < jadew> oh, they changed their site
2018-10-10T17:26:12 < jadew> god, that effect is annoying
2018-10-10T17:26:14 < jadew> wtf...
2018-10-10T17:26:16 < kakimir> I don't undestand keyword restrict
2018-10-10T17:26:24 < englishman> chinaboard https://i.imgur.com/ZiJX5TJ.jpg
2018-10-10T17:26:30 < englishman> real board made by white people https://i.imgur.com/RcrIpmI.jpg
2018-10-10T17:27:09 < catphish> DHL: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mCPmSxrnYC/
2018-10-10T17:27:25 < catphish> it's cool that DHL pay all tax for you, but can be annoying when they screw up
2018-10-10T17:27:32 < jadew> englishbot, I see the real one is in color
2018-10-10T17:27:49 < kakimir> charcoal black pcb
2018-10-10T17:27:49 < BrainDamage> catphish: it's shit, here they charge you extra when they do
2018-10-10T17:27:53 < kakimir> best of colors
2018-10-10T17:27:57 < englishman> thats china matte black
2018-10-10T17:27:58 < catphish> yeah, £11 handling fee
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2018-10-10T17:28:14 < catphish> which sucks when you owe £4 in VAT
2018-10-10T17:28:36 < catphish> but it beats the hell out of getting PCBs manufacturer in the EU
2018-10-10T17:29:11 < jadew> englishbot, the china PCB looks better
2018-10-10T17:29:22 < englishman> /ignoring jadew who cannot properly tab complete
2018-10-10T17:29:28 < catphish> local fabs here are just too expensive and slow from what i've seen :(
2018-10-10T17:29:28 < englishman> and is also a retard
2018-10-10T17:30:16 < jadew> englishman, did you just call me a retard?
2018-10-10T17:30:36 < catphish> the fab here comes close to competing with china cost if you wait 4 weeks :(
2018-10-10T17:30:53 < catphish> jadew: i think he did
2018-10-10T17:30:55 < catphish> fight
2018-10-10T17:31:04 < englishman> nothing takes 4 weeks
2018-10-10T17:32:34 < catphish> oh, it's 3 weeks, and the cheapest is 1 board, 3 weeks, £36 GBP, which is comparable to china 10 boards in 4 days
2018-10-10T17:33:41 < catphish> 5 boards would be £92 and take 3 weeks, not crazy, but not quite china-beating
2018-10-10T17:34:18 < jadew> englishman, wtf dude?
2018-10-10T17:34:38 < catphish> i wish i could batch up pcb orders, but i only develop one thing at once
2018-10-10T17:35:13 < jadew> catphish, fabs here are the same
2018-10-10T17:35:20 < jadew> and the quality leaves a lot to be desired
2018-10-10T17:35:40 < catphish> i'm pretty good this UK fab is good quality, i know pros that use them
2018-10-10T17:35:51 < catphish> but slow/expensive for hobby stuff
2018-10-10T17:36:39 < catphish> i guess thats the same in most places :(
2018-10-10T17:36:47 < catphish> except seemingly china
2018-10-10T17:37:11 < catphish> i kinda want to go to china
2018-10-10T17:37:21 < BrainDamage> china has overwhelming production, so they can just shove your stuff into an empty place
2018-10-10T17:39:43 < jadew> I think they have plenty small orders so they can dedicate an entire fab to it
2018-10-10T17:39:51 < jadew> the trick is cheap labor
2018-10-10T17:39:54 < karlp> englishman: silk's better, but so what?
2018-10-10T17:40:25 < englishman> silkscreen is gross
2018-10-10T17:40:27 < englishman> looks like cum
2018-10-10T17:40:30 < englishman> isnt even straight
2018-10-10T17:40:33 < jadew> so what?
2018-10-10T17:40:36 < jadew> the vias are better
2018-10-10T17:40:43 < kakimir> jizzscreen
2018-10-10T17:41:03 < karlp> not being straight isn't a problem from the fab, that's the designer
2018-10-10T17:41:08 < jadew> in the one with green soldermask you can see they are misaligned
2018-10-10T17:41:56 < englishman> k enjoy your filthy china pcbs
2018-10-10T17:42:15 < jadew> I just don't care about silkscreen more than I care about the copper
2018-10-10T17:42:17 < mawk> catphish: around where I live there are associations that provide tools to do and solder pcbs
2018-10-10T17:42:26 < mawk> but the one I've found near paris is like full of leftist nazis
2018-10-10T17:42:32 < kakimir> I have never ordered pcbs from not china
2018-10-10T17:42:39 < mawk> they want you to open-source your schematics and pay royalties to them or something
2018-10-10T17:43:54 < jadew> also, the silkscreen on the one you think is better, is also misaligned
2018-10-10T17:44:11 < jadew> look at R5 or C5
2018-10-10T17:44:46 < karlp> Haohmaru: that's not intrinsically evil, though of course it can be abused,
2018-10-10T17:44:56 < karlp> sometimes it just because they know how to convert them better than some of their users.
2018-10-10T17:45:18 < kakimir> probably even edit some fucked things
2018-10-10T17:45:24 < kakimir> or per request
2018-10-10T17:45:28 < mawk> a fried tried to manufacture some boards to sell them at that association, and they pressured him to give them under the table royalties for all the help they gave him
2018-10-10T17:45:37 < mawk> so he just walked away and never completed his project
2018-10-10T17:45:38 < kakimir> I know gerbers can be edited too but idk
2018-10-10T17:46:19 < mawk> lol
2018-10-10T17:46:40 < jadew> Haohmaru, which fab asked you for that?
2018-10-10T17:50:06 < catphish> mawk: i thought i might be able to do commercial pcb design / assembly in the future, but who knows :) i'll see how i get on with my own projects first
2018-10-10T17:50:54 < mawk> these associations do for hobbyists too
2018-10-10T17:50:59 < mawk> and especially hobbyists I think
2018-10-10T17:51:26 < mawk> they invest in expensive tools and amort them by giving access to a large number of people
2018-10-10T17:52:29 < mawk> wurtz
2018-10-10T17:53:41 < mawk> lol
2018-10-10T17:54:52 < karlp> wurth even do pcbs, with online shopping for them and all
2018-10-10T17:55:11 < mawk> they paid your management for that I hope Haohmaru 
2018-10-10T17:55:15 < mawk> not the other way around
2018-10-10T17:55:24 < kakimir> I have books from wurth
2018-10-10T17:55:29 < kakimir> inductors book
2018-10-10T17:55:34 < kakimir> maybe some another book too
2018-10-10T18:09:39 < mawk> I soldered the MRF24J40 to my protoboard karlp , but I forgot to cover the test points under
2018-10-10T18:09:43 < mawk> what happens if they are shorted
2018-10-10T18:10:31 < karlp> you're gonna find out?
2018-10-10T18:10:34 < karlp> I don't know.
2018-10-10T18:11:27 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-10T18:11:59 < karlp> I don't even remember test pads on the bottom it's been that long
2018-10-10T18:12:23 < mawk> yeah I saw the date on the repo
2018-10-10T18:12:37 < mawk> I'd buy some more boards for myself if they are fun to code with
2018-10-10T18:12:42 < mawk> but with a real antenna, not that trace thing
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2018-10-10T18:16:16 < karlp> they worked pretty well in my experiments, depends what sort of range you're after.
2018-10-10T18:16:31 < karlp> wires aren't _intrinsicaly_ better than pcb antennas.
2018-10-10T18:16:56 < mawk> in theory no I guess
2018-10-10T18:17:00 < mawk> if the pcb is perfectly designed
2018-10-10T18:17:04 < mawk> and there are no interferences around
2018-10-10T18:17:49 < karlp> the B module has a PA on it, if you want more range :)
2018-10-10T18:18:05 < mawk> yeah I've seen that on microchip's website
2018-10-10T18:18:32 < mawk> well with a trace antenna and a live relay around it did enough interference to cut the signal
2018-10-10T18:18:42 < mawk> but I don't know if an antenna would perform better in that case
2018-10-10T18:19:02 < karlp> hrm, I had an mrf24j40 ina  box with a big SSR contorlling a fridge, and it was always ok,
2018-10-10T18:19:13 < karlp> but I wass't toggling it at high speed, nor high data rates.
2018-10-10T18:19:15 < mawk> it wasn't a MRF, another thing
2018-10-10T18:19:16 < karlp> it "just worked"
2018-10-10T18:19:23 < mawk> some low power thing from nordic
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2018-10-10T21:27:30 < Steffanx> ty
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2018-10-10T21:28:22 < catphish> ugh, just spent the last hour dealing with floating QFN again
2018-10-10T21:28:38 < catphish> next time they're getting the smallest possible centre pad
2018-10-10T21:29:08 < Steffanx> or less paste?
2018-10-10T21:29:10 < catphish> in fact maybe no solder paste at all, they can cling on and be grateful
2018-10-10T21:29:13 < Steffanx>  / solder
2018-10-10T21:29:33 < catphish> sorry, by smaller pad, i actually meant small solder paste aperture
2018-10-10T21:29:37 < zyp> you still doing hot plate reflow?
2018-10-10T21:29:41 < catphish> hot plate
2018-10-10T21:29:55 < catphish> i mean, yes
2018-10-10T21:30:00 < Steffanx> heh
2018-10-10T21:30:08 < catphish> it works perfectly on every other component
2018-10-10T21:30:11 < catphish> but the qfn always floats
2018-10-10T21:30:15 < catphish> i think it has way too much paste :(
2018-10-10T21:30:25 < zyp> probably
2018-10-10T21:30:43 < catphish> i'll design the aperture smaller on the stencil next time
2018-10-10T21:31:09 < catphish> in the end i had to take off the component along with most of its solder, then put down a new clean one
2018-10-10T21:31:14 < catphish> that worked
2018-10-10T21:31:19 < catphish> but ugh, i need to get better at thus
2018-10-10T21:31:20 < catphish> *this
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2018-10-10T22:22:10 < mawk> the MRF24J40 with an antenna connector incidentally has a higher current consumption as it has amplifiers for RX and TX
2018-10-10T22:23:14 < karlp> mcr20A is ~20mA each way too.
2018-10-10T22:25:01 < karlp> did you look at samr series at all?
2018-10-10T22:28:22 < karlp> this is the one I got a hanmdful to test, but it's nrnd now: https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/MRF24XA
2018-10-10T22:29:26 < emeb> Cracki: you follow "Hourly Lynxes" on the tweety too?
2018-10-10T22:30:15 < emeb> I find social media much more tolerable after having found that.
2018-10-10T22:33:15 < emeb> ooo - @HourlyCheetas
2018-10-10T22:36:53 < catphish> Cracki: i had a new one made, they made it correctly as 9 segments, but still too much paste
2018-10-10T22:37:22 < catphish> Cracki: yeah i'll do that on future builds
2018-10-10T22:38:04 < catphish> i'll find a way
2018-10-10T22:38:18 < catphish> or i'll just put some tape over part of the stencil
2018-10-10T22:39:45 < mawk> yeah well I've seen lists and lists of transceivers, but the fact that I can't solder SMD means I'm pretty limited
2018-10-10T22:39:57 < mawk> so that MRF24J40 is nice, with a module made by the supplier
2018-10-10T22:41:09 < mawk> that's a hack right ?
2018-10-10T22:41:31 < catphish> sort of, but it works perfectly afaik
2018-10-10T22:41:37 < mawk> I've thought of using tiny holes to pour solder into, to solder qfn stuff
2018-10-10T22:41:41 < mawk> wouldn't that work nicely
2018-10-10T22:41:45 < catphish> use a hot plate
2018-10-10T22:41:48 < catphish> i seriously recommend it
2018-10-10T22:41:59 < mawk> like the ones for cooking meat ?
2018-10-10T22:42:03 < catphish> yes
2018-10-10T22:42:15 < catphish> lemme show you mine, one sec
2018-10-10T22:42:19 < mawk> I burnt my finger on these when I was a kid, I still remember it
2018-10-10T22:43:53 < catphish> mawk: https://imgur.com/a/gjpE5Bv
2018-10-10T22:44:05 < catphish> mawk: i'm not claiming this is a "good" setup, but it works perfectly for me
2018-10-10T22:44:31 < catphish> with the correct amount of solder paste and correctly aligned components, it works great
2018-10-10T22:44:44 < kakimir> cusimax
2018-10-10T22:45:10 < kakimir> kusi = piss
2018-10-10T22:45:14 < catphish> lol
2018-10-10T22:45:39 < kakimir> I use similar at work
2018-10-10T22:45:46 < catphish> the only problem i have is with floating qfns caused by using way too much paste
2018-10-10T22:45:53 < kakimir> there was need
2018-10-10T22:45:58 < kakimir> I improvised
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2018-10-10T22:46:16 < kakimir> it was like we need this project done now
2018-10-10T22:46:16 < catphish> top tip, put absolute minimal solder on qfn center pad
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2018-10-10T22:46:48 < catphish> but yeah, it works, got me over my fear of small components
2018-10-10T22:46:49 < kakimir> don't make a mistake to touch it with soldering iron after initial apply of solder
2018-10-10T22:46:52 < kakimir> or paste
2018-10-10T22:47:06 < catphish> you can re-heat on the plate as much as you need
2018-10-10T22:47:19 < catphish> i don't know if it's possible to damage a component by overheating, but i haven't managed it
2018-10-10T22:47:36 < catphish> and i've left it at 220+C for minutes at a time
2018-10-10T22:47:56 < catphish> people seem to also suggest warming with a plate plus using hot air
2018-10-10T22:48:00 < catphish> but i find the plate alone is enough
2018-10-10T22:48:04 < mawk> nice catphish 
2018-10-10T22:48:04 < kakimir> some solder starts to grow hair or crystals when you apply heat for long time
2018-10-10T22:48:12 < mawk> you use a metal plate on top of it ? or that's paper
2018-10-10T22:48:22 < kakimir> catphish: hot air really makes it go
2018-10-10T22:48:28 < catphish> mawk: aluminium plate, it's distributed the heat better
2018-10-10T22:48:35 < catphish> *distributes
2018-10-10T22:48:44 < kakimir> you can manipulate and move components with air
2018-10-10T22:48:51 < kakimir> get them settle
2018-10-10T22:48:54 < kakimir> *to
2018-10-10T22:49:04 < catphish> i use tweezers to poke the components around
2018-10-10T22:49:31 < catphish> tbh i really hope i can stop doing this soon, all but my QFNs are perfect, the QFNs would be if i used the right amount of paste
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2018-10-10T22:51:15 < kakimir> secret to perfect amount is - a good stencil
2018-10-10T22:51:37 < catphish> yeah, i don't know if my stencil is too thick, or just badly designed
2018-10-10T22:51:48 < catphish> but it applies way too much paste under the qfn
2018-10-10T22:52:26 < catphish> on one build i scraped some off and it was ok, i forgot to do so on today's build and it was hell, in future i will make the aperture smaller
2018-10-10T22:52:34 < catphish> for less paste
2018-10-10T22:54:19 < catphish> finished prototype: https://i.imgur.com/o4ZSdrO.jpg - the flux and excessive re-eating have made a hell of a mess, but it works now :)
2018-10-10T22:55:26 < catphish> *re-heating
2018-10-10T22:56:00 < catphish> now i can work on the software
2018-10-10T23:01:07 < Steffanx> heh
2018-10-10T23:01:45 < Steffanx> You should ask dongs about tom66, when you see dongs, catphish
2018-10-10T23:02:39 < oz4ga> flux *bath*
2018-10-10T23:03:11 < catphish> lol
2018-10-10T23:03:33 < catphish> i did somewhat pour flux over it in frustration
2018-10-10T23:04:10 < catphish> but it works, so i guess i'm happy
2018-10-10T23:08:14 < Steffanx> catphish: this is tom66 https://goo.gl/images/9BFTL5
2018-10-10T23:08:52 < catphish> wow
2018-10-10T23:09:08 < englishman> very famous RCgroups member
2018-10-10T23:09:12 < englishman> refused advice
2018-10-10T23:09:17 < englishman> tried to sell shit or something
2018-10-10T23:09:22 < catphish> lol
2018-10-10T23:09:22 < englishman> burned every board he was given
2018-10-10T23:09:24 < Steffanx> crt ^
2018-10-10T23:09:25 < kakimir> catphish: please acetone it
2018-10-10T23:09:40 < catphish> kakimir: it's no clean flux, it's just ugly
2018-10-10T23:09:53 < Steffanx> cleaning it wont kill you
2018-10-10T23:09:54 < kakimir> it can be removed
2018-10-10T23:10:04 < catphish> i guess i could
2018-10-10T23:10:11 < kakimir> I have not seen flux that acetone wont fix
2018-10-10T23:10:26 < catphish> but i mean, the board works, i'll make a neater one next week
2018-10-10T23:10:36 < jadew> why did you use so much flux?
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2018-10-10T23:10:52 < catphish> jadew: frustration that the qfn wouldn't stick down
2018-10-10T23:11:01 < englishman> looks fine you'll get better at it
2018-10-10T23:11:04 < catphish> ultimately the flux didn't help, i needed to remove solder
2018-10-10T23:11:05 < englishman> when you get a heat gun
2018-10-10T23:11:15 < kakimir> nice layout
2018-10-10T23:11:18 < kakimir> I like it
2018-10-10T23:11:22 < catphish> the problem was 100% too much paste
2018-10-10T23:11:30 < jadew> you soldered it with an iron?
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2018-10-10T23:11:32 < catphish> englishman: thanks
2018-10-10T23:11:35 < catphish> hot plate
2018-10-10T23:11:39 < jadew> ah
2018-10-10T23:11:53 < catphish> i kinda wish i had one that wasn't covered in burned flux to show
2018-10-10T23:12:19 < catphish> here's a render :) https://i.imgur.com/OqNwJJe.png
2018-10-10T23:12:26 < Steffanx> hah :D
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2018-10-10T23:12:41 < jadew> eh, it will come right off if you clean it
2018-10-10T23:12:41 < kakimir> what is that big box?
2018-10-10T23:12:43 < kakimir> battery?
2018-10-10T23:12:55 < catphish> kakimir: the big black box is a buzzer
2018-10-10T23:13:08 < Steffanx> Why you render has C15 places and your soldering job C19?
2018-10-10T23:13:11 < catphish> the 6 through holes on the left are for a battery
2018-10-10T23:13:11 < Steffanx> *placed
2018-10-10T23:13:54 < catphish> Steffanx: Steffanx: they're all in parallel, i realised that the cap should go as close as possible to the antenna, it probably doesnt matter
2018-10-10T23:14:14 < catphish> they're redundant to allow antenna fine tuning later
2018-10-10T23:15:05 < invzim_> goddamnit I hate hid descriptors
2018-10-10T23:15:15 < Steffanx> y
2018-10-10T23:16:06 < kakimir> pin row plastics and buzzer are most likelly to be damaged from acetone - buzzer case looks like plastic that can handle it but it might have glue and other types of plastics inside
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2018-10-10T23:16:49 < jadew> catphish, what hot plate do you have?
2018-10-10T23:17:05 < catphish> jadew: cheap glass topped whatever was on ebay
2018-10-10T23:17:52 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC1Vfoq3PvU
2018-10-10T23:17:58 < kakimir> kakimusics
2018-10-10T23:18:00 < catphish> jadew: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cusimax-CMIP-B112-Portable-Hot-Plate-Sinlge-Ceramic-Hob-Stainless-Steel-1200W/232789562984?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190540%26meid%3D17f1fd8db6ce482db4c74aaf6fffd338%26pid%3D100505%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26%26itm%3D232789562984&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226
2018-10-10T23:18:09 < jadew> kakimir, have that one in my fav. playlist
2018-10-10T23:18:17 < kakimir> I paid less for mine catphish
2018-10-10T23:18:23 < kakimir> 17eur iirc.
2018-10-10T23:18:28 < Steffanx> from china?
2018-10-10T23:18:38 < catphish> mine was local UK stock
2018-10-10T23:18:43 < Steffanx> thsi one is already in the uk. id but from there because faster.
2018-10-10T23:18:46 < catphish> but probably china quality
2018-10-10T23:18:55 < kakimir> Steffanx: cheap store next door
2018-10-10T23:19:01 < jadew> catphish, does it not burn the bottom of the board?
2018-10-10T23:19:05 < catphish> literally any hot plate is fine afaik
2018-10-10T23:19:19 < kakimir> hysteresis
2018-10-10T23:19:22 < kakimir> thermal mass
2018-10-10T23:19:38 < catphish> i added a metal plate to help with mass and distribution
2018-10-10T23:19:46 < kakimir> how much it is a IR / contact couplet
2018-10-10T23:19:52 < kakimir> coupled
2018-10-10T23:20:16 < catphish> it's just glass / contact coupled afaik
2018-10-10T23:20:25 < catphish> but there may be some IR
2018-10-10T23:22:51 < jadew> I was wondering if I should get one of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YIHUA-853A-ESD-BGA-Rework-Station-PCB-Preheat-Desoldering-IR-Preheating-Station/253403990936?hash=item3b000e0b98:m:m96uff07_heKelO7uOpYeMA:rk:4:pf:0
2018-10-10T23:23:38 < jadew> this also looks interesting: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YH-853AAA-ALL-IN-ONE-BGA-HOT-AIR-REWORK-SOLDERING-IRON-PREHEATING-STATION-2018/173234479737
2018-10-10T23:24:01 < catphish> well sure
2018-10-10T23:24:24 < catphish> ideally it can heat the board up enough to solder everything without needing the hot air
2018-10-10T23:24:37 < catphish> but the hot air is cool for reworking parts of the board
2018-10-10T23:24:46 < jadew> yeah, I want it for rework
2018-10-10T23:24:49 < catphish> s/cool/a more appropriate word/
2018-10-10T23:24:58 < catphish> does look nice
2018-10-10T23:25:08 < Steffanx> jadew, that thing reminds me of that asbestos stuff you mentioned once. 
2018-10-10T23:25:12 < Steffanx> wasnt that the 853A?
2018-10-10T23:25:34 < jadew> it was the t962
2018-10-10T23:25:54 < Steffanx> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/best-853a-is-this-asbestos-inside/
2018-10-10T23:26:05 < Steffanx> but never a confirmation or whatever
2018-10-10T23:26:21 < jadew> oh, I forgot about that one
2018-10-10T23:26:31 < catphish> if/when my pnp machine works, i'll get a t962
2018-10-10T23:26:44 < catphish> then i should be able to do some proper builds
2018-10-10T23:27:56 < jadew> Steffanx, I guess I'll look for something else
2018-10-10T23:28:32 < catphish> it's really annoying me that the card detection mode on this st95hf dosn't work
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2018-10-10T23:28:51 < catphish> i suspect it needs antenna tuning
2018-10-10T23:30:59 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:8070:a19d:2500:a1d6:a46:48d3:2ab2] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2018-10-10T23:33:31 < jadew> this seems to be another option, but it's a bit more expensive at ~$300: http://www.thermaltronics.com/tmt-ph200.php
2018-10-10T23:33:49 < jadew> but it's sold by TME and has a CE mark on it, so it's probably safe
2018-10-10T23:34:40 < Ecco> Would a Cortex-M4 benefit from __builtin_expect?
2018-10-10T23:34:47 < Ecco> My understanding is that no, but am I correct?
2018-10-10T23:40:19 < antto> in soviet russia, the temperature controls YOU
2018-10-10T23:41:08 < antto> also Putin
--- Day changed Thu Oct 11 2018
2018-10-11T00:03:42 < jadew> crt, haven't decided to buy it yet
2018-10-11T00:04:02 < jadew> I'd like one that comes with a holder for a heat gun too
2018-10-11T00:12:02 < jadew> lol https://youtu.be/W3io_H9sKtY?t=971
2018-10-11T00:34:07 < kakimir> I have 862D+ I think
2018-10-11T00:34:56 < jadew> comes with preheater?
2018-10-11T00:35:23 < kakimir> I don't know
2018-10-11T00:35:38 < kakimir> at work I have such blower that can blow components off the board
2018-10-11T00:36:04 < kakimir> soldered down components fly off like nothing
2018-10-11T00:36:22 < jadew> the tip is too narrow?
2018-10-11T00:36:49 < kakimir> wait I don't have the device on the video
2018-10-11T00:36:56 < jadew> happens to me too, but not with already soldered parts, just the ones I intend to solder
2018-10-11T00:36:58 < kakimir> I have that small black box thing
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2018-10-11T01:21:46 < catphish> i've asked ST about my card detection woes https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009q2dFlSAI/
2018-10-11T01:51:24 < jadew> https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=kKmQj_1539112051
2018-10-11T02:05:55 < mawk> if I have a receiver rated "400 ft" but the transmitter is way more powerful and rated "4000 ft" the real range will be between the two right ?
2018-10-11T02:06:09 < mawk> can I compute that easily ?
2018-10-11T02:06:30 < mawk> eg assume a spherical wave, find out where the attenuation equals the receiver sensivity
2018-10-11T02:06:33 < jadew> heh
2018-10-11T02:07:28 < jadew> well, I don't know how to convert ft to signal strength, but yeah, you could theoretically figure out the range, if you could do the conversion
2018-10-11T02:07:39 < mawk> I've got other data
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2018-10-11T02:09:02 < BrainDamage> no, you cannot convert a distance easily
2018-10-11T02:09:23 < BrainDamage> you can do some budget calcs using free space path loss and link budget margins
2018-10-11T02:09:36 < BrainDamage> but it's all very woo woo
2018-10-11T02:09:39 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-11T02:09:52 < mawk> no I don't mean from the ft measure, but from the respective input and output power
2018-10-11T02:10:01 < mawk> we know how a spherical wave attenuates
2018-10-11T02:10:07 < mawk> that'll give a upper limit
2018-10-11T02:10:13 < BrainDamage> it's not attenuation, but yes
2018-10-11T02:10:17 < BrainDamage> free space path loss
2018-10-11T02:10:22 < mawk> yeah not attenuation
2018-10-11T02:10:30 < mawk> just the wave being spherical
2018-10-11T02:10:35 < BrainDamage> you'll still need a receiver sensivity to get a link budget margin
2018-10-11T02:10:36 < catphish> mawk: it doesn't really make sense for a receiver to specify a distance
2018-10-11T02:10:53 < mawk> it's a distance for two of the same transceivers catphish I guess
2018-10-11T02:11:06 < mawk> the low power transceiver can do 400ft between two identical units, the high power 4000 ft
2018-10-11T02:11:10 < mawk> and I want to mix units
2018-10-11T02:11:26 < BrainDamage> power * tx antenna * path loss * rx antenna >= rx sensitivity
2018-10-11T02:11:37 < jadew> mawk, if their sensitivity is the same, the range will be 400 ft
2018-10-11T02:11:39 < catphish> mawk: i suppose i'd expect the range to be that specified by the tx device
2018-10-11T02:11:46 < jadew> or 4000 if you're only going to use the first one to transmit
2018-10-11T02:11:48 < BrainDamage> convert to db to make the * become sums and subtractions
2018-10-11T02:11:48 < catphish> assuming they have similar receive sensitivity
2018-10-11T02:12:32 < mawk> what's the path loss term BrainDamage ? something like 1/r² for empty space ?
2018-10-11T02:12:40 < mawk> proportional to
2018-10-11T02:12:47 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-space_path_loss
2018-10-11T02:13:22 < mawk> ah
2018-10-11T02:13:23 < mawk> right yeah
2018-10-11T02:13:37 < mawk> yeah only one direction jadew 
2018-10-11T02:13:44 < mawk> most powerful transmits, the other one receives
2018-10-11T02:13:51 < BrainDamage> the distance term comes directly from that
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2018-10-11T02:14:13 < mawk> but even in the other direction the more powerful has higher receive sensitivity so I'd expect that to be greater than 400ft too
2018-10-11T02:14:29 < jadew> mawk, then see if you can find the difference in sensitivity between the two, then you can convert that to distance, using the FSPL and you can add that to the 4000ft
2018-10-11T02:14:47 < mawk> yes
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2018-10-11T02:39:43 < jadew> I'm out of stuff to watch
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2018-10-11T02:40:47 < jadew> any interesting electronics channels?
2018-10-11T02:41:35 < Ultrasauce> HOII!
2018-10-11T02:41:44 < jadew> what's that?
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2018-10-11T02:46:39 < catphish> this one :)
2018-10-11T02:46:54 < jadew> heh
2018-10-11T02:47:01 < jadew> not much going on tho
2018-10-11T02:47:24 < jadew> there are so few good channels out there
2018-10-11T02:47:33 < jadew> despite being so many
2018-10-11T02:49:27 < jadew> oh well, music it is
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2018-10-11T03:30:25 < catphish> i should sleep soon
2018-10-11T03:30:42 < catphish> can't get my android phone to respond to my nfc signals
2018-10-11T03:30:53 < jadew> they didn't run this version on tv, did they? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq4OtRsdXls
2018-10-11T03:31:11 < jadew> catphish, things always work better when you're fresh
2018-10-11T03:31:48 < jadew> that third comment there took the words out of my mouth: "My depression is disappear."
2018-10-11T03:31:54 < catphish> i don't have tv, so no idea
2018-10-11T03:32:27 < BrainDamage> get a mild alcohol addiction, alcohol intoxication is a depressant and makes you sleepy, but once you build up tolerance levels you'll get the opposite effect until you're wasted
2018-10-11T03:32:46 < jadew> lol
2018-10-11T03:33:06 < catphish> my alcohol intake has dropped dramatically in the last month
2018-10-11T03:34:17 < BrainDamage> holy shit that song is a blast from the past
2018-10-11T03:35:25 < jadew> I'm watching it the 3rd time in a row
2018-10-11T03:35:36 < jadew> they did a good job
2018-10-11T03:35:45 < BrainDamage> I have some vague memories about dirty discos in the spanish coast near lloret de mar and me completely wasted
2018-10-11T03:36:23 < jadew> sounds like good times
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2018-10-11T04:22:57 < jadew> I changed something on my ebay listing and it doesn't show up in the search results anymore
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2018-10-11T04:54:06 < Laurenceb124> BRICs were shat https://postimg.cc/5Hgtnsnp
2018-10-11T04:54:29 < con3> hmm.. I have one of these nucleo boards, f446re. When I plug the cable in the stlink's led and led3(power) lights up on the board, no problems. I can't program or erase the board in any way. I have used this board in the past,then put it in my cupboard..not sure if there's anything I can do? can't imagine it's broken :/
2018-10-11T04:56:58 < aandrew> what is the error you get
2018-10-11T04:58:04 < con3> Hey aandrew! on atollic , it just says that no target is connected, with the stlink utility: communication error, When I remove the power to the board (E5V) it can connect and Identify the stlink
2018-10-11T04:58:14 < Laurenceb124> oh wow they are making an Incel movie
2018-10-11T04:59:05 < aandrew> con3: try powering it from USB (U5V, middle jumper) and make sure nothing but the stlink usb cable is connected
2018-10-11T04:59:22 < aandrew> are the "nucleo" jumpers both installed?
2018-10-11T04:59:47 < dongs> Laurenceb124: are you an incel or vocel
2018-10-11T04:59:50 < con3> aandrew: sorry, I mispoke(mistyped?) its being powered from U5V and both nucleo jumpers are connected
2018-10-11T05:00:09 < Laurenceb124> dongs: neither
2018-10-11T05:04:26 < aandrew> con3: hm; what about all the other jumpers - are they all at defaults? some of them can "kill" an otherwise functioning board
2018-10-11T05:05:39 < dongs> connect under reset?
2018-10-11T05:06:41 < con3> aandrew: "its saying the old the interface firmware failed to reset/halt the target" I've set it to connect under reset and I've tried erasing it with the stlink by pressing and holding + releasing the reset button. I'll check the jumpers quick as well
2018-10-11T05:08:01 < con3> crap wait
2018-10-11T05:08:07 < con3> I think I'm missing a jumper
2018-10-11T05:08:12  * con3 is an idiot
2018-10-11T05:09:38 < Laurenceb124> oh wow 8chan waman is back https://postimg.cc/626Ff0mr
2018-10-11T05:09:55 < Laurenceb124> dat autism level
2018-10-11T05:11:35 < Laurenceb124> >detectives found referenced to "moonman" on her phone, an online character who raps racist lyrics
2018-10-11T05:11:39 < Laurenceb124> my sides
2018-10-11T05:11:52 < con3> aandrew: was missing a jumper, sorry about that.
2018-10-11T05:12:00 < con3> thank you for all the help!
2018-10-11T05:12:00 < jadew> Laurenceb124, is that happening in the UK?
2018-10-11T05:14:16 < Laurenceb124> yes
2018-10-11T05:14:29 < Laurenceb124> >she threatened to behead MPs with a machete
2018-10-11T05:14:34 < Laurenceb124> my sides are orbital
2018-10-11T05:14:58 < Laurenceb124> Chris-Chans future wife
2018-10-11T05:15:18 < jadew> police going through your phone to see what you're listening to <- that's fucking insane
2018-10-11T05:15:34 < Laurenceb124> welcome to uk
2018-10-11T05:16:27 < Laurenceb124> inb4 all the incel posters are actually 40year old deranged cat ladies
2018-10-11T05:17:05 < jadew> I don't know why people aren't more worried about this shit
2018-10-11T05:17:49 < Laurenceb124> ikr
2018-10-11T05:17:51 < jadew> that's some next level fascism
2018-10-11T05:17:55 < Laurenceb124> I'm just here to enjoy the ride
2018-10-11T05:18:39 < jadew> I'd be terrified if things seemed to go that way
2018-10-11T05:21:59 < jadew> I guess fascism doesn't fit there, because there's no nationalism involved - what's the word for fascism without nationalism?
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2018-10-11T05:24:51 < BrainDamage> authoritarianism
2018-10-11T05:25:06 < jadew> yeah, I guess that would be it
2018-10-11T05:26:35 < jadew> the moment what you think or say can be held against you in a cour of law, you're fucked
2018-10-11T05:26:44 < jadew> because words can be interpreted
2018-10-11T05:26:55 < jadew> held against you as an offence itself
2018-10-11T05:27:14 < BrainDamage> that happens for anyone anywhere
2018-10-11T05:27:29 < BrainDamage> the difference is the reasonable amount of justice espectation
2018-10-11T05:28:42 < jadew> words alone are not an offence here
2018-10-11T05:28:52  * emeb_mac is offended
2018-10-11T05:29:08 < jadew> threathening someone might get you a visit from the police, but that's about it
2018-10-11T05:29:34 < jadew> and even that can be ignored in most cases
2018-10-11T05:29:51 < BrainDamage> try stating a murder intention or a terroristic act
2018-10-11T05:30:21 < jadew> ok, you have a point
2018-10-11T05:31:26 < jadew> I think you nailed it with "reasonable"
2018-10-11T05:33:25 < jadew> anyway, there's something werid going on there and I'm surprised people are not in the street about it
2018-10-11T05:34:01 < jadew> it sounds so much like the shit the fascists and the communists were pulling, that you'd think everyone would at least raise an eyebrow at these news
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2018-10-11T05:34:52 < aandrew> con3: great to hear
2018-10-11T05:46:32 < aandrew> fuck this I think I'm going to try to get a stackup with 60um prepreg
2018-10-11T05:46:53 < aandrew> 1080 is 78um 
2018-10-11T05:47:36 < jadew> 1080?
2018-10-11T05:49:33 < aandrew> yeah
2018-10-11T05:49:40 < aandrew> it's one of the common prepregs
2018-10-11T05:49:46 < jadew> ah
2018-10-11T05:49:50 < aandrew> probably the thinnest after 106 which is 60um
2018-10-11T05:49:52 < jadew> why is the thickness important?
2018-10-11T05:50:41 < aandrew> the characteristic impedance of controlled impedance microstrips is determined by their geometry and their distance to a reference
2018-10-11T05:50:50 < jadew> got it, so for impedance
2018-10-11T05:51:06 < jadew> it's going to be a very thin microstrip at that height
2018-10-11T05:51:43 < jadew> what impedance and er?
2018-10-11T05:52:55 < jadew> is it on FR-4?
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2018-10-11T05:53:03 < aandrew> for example, for a 100 ohm edge coupled differential pair with a typical 4 layer stackup that uses two sheets of 2116 between the outer and inner layer and 1oz copper, that pair needs a geometry of 15/8 or such
2018-10-11T05:53:40 < aandrew> but with nice thin 60um prepreg that same diff pair is now 4/4
2018-10-11T05:55:05 < jadew> the problem with super thin microstrip is that it's not very tollerant to er changes
2018-10-11T05:56:01 < aandrew> and better than that... since the reference is only 60um away then the coupling to ajacent diff pairs is almost nonexistent
2018-10-11T05:56:08 < aandrew> so you don't have to have the pair spread so far apart
2018-10-11T05:56:39 < jadew> ah, it's not just the one
2018-10-11T05:57:33 < aandrew> what do you mean about er? an er of 4 gives me 104 ohms, and 4.6 gives me 98.8 ohms
2018-10-11T05:57:39 < aandrew> that's not much of a difference
2018-10-11T05:58:01 < aandrew> no, you've seen the board
2018-10-11T05:58:34 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/aa6a52P
2018-10-11T05:59:02 < jadew> aandrew, the problem is that also the trace width has very high effect on the impedance, not just the er
2018-10-11T05:59:12 < aandrew> hence the trace geometry
2018-10-11T05:59:25 < aandrew> 4/4 gives me 100 ohms diff with 60um prepreg
2018-10-11T05:59:46 < aandrew> you want thin prepreg to get the trace geometry smaller
2018-10-11T06:00:08 < aandrew> I could not have possibly routed that board with 15/8 and then needing like 45mil between diff pairs
2018-10-11T06:00:24 < jadew> for that impedance and that height, even 0.001 difference in trace width will have a noticeable effect on impedance
2018-10-11T06:00:31 < jadew> that's 0.001 mm
2018-10-11T06:01:15 < jadew> well, if you're constrained by the layout then it doesn't matter
2018-10-11T06:01:21 < aandrew> yes, 4.3mil vs 4mil does have some effect
2018-10-11T06:01:37 < aandrew> however that's kind of the point of controlled impedance
2018-10-11T06:02:44 < aandrew> 103um vs 109um isn't exactly .001mm :-)
2018-10-11T06:05:35 < jadew> aandrew, where did you get the codes for the various prepeg heights? I've inquired a few times about prepeg height and they never used those codes - would have made the discussions a lot easier if they did
2018-10-11T06:08:08 < jadew> ah, it looks like it's different based on the core?
2018-10-11T06:12:43 < jadew> hmm, looks like the thickness is different based on the resin content
2018-10-11T06:16:16 < aandrew> just google
2018-10-11T06:16:28 < jadew> yeah, found a couple of tables
2018-10-11T06:17:04 < jadew> they don't seem to agree on the thickness, so I assume you still have to ask the fab
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2018-10-11T06:19:36 < aandrew> yes
2018-10-11T06:19:56 < aandrew> and from what I can tell the exact thicknesses vary as well becuase the traces will "squish" into the prepreg a bit
2018-10-11T06:20:17 < jadew> makes sense
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2018-10-11T06:25:06 < aandrew> gonna try for 60um prepreg and a thick slab of ~1200um core
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2018-10-11T08:47:51 < dongs> choke on a cock i guess
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2018-10-11T09:12:39 < emeb_mac> so indecisive
2018-10-11T09:18:41 < Steffanx> Want to talk about it crt?
2018-10-11T09:20:11 < Steffanx> Idk
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2018-10-11T09:28:00 < dongs> http://www.sunlordinc.com/detail.aspx?cid=187436 china innovating
2018-10-11T09:28:04 < cjbaird> A mate just got screwed over... Bought a house (yesterday: helping him move), sellers hadn't removed their belongings by the date of the Settlement (after being given ~4 months..), so legally, all their shit is his now. There was a Jaguar MG still in the garage.. That was the one thing the previous owners had cared to move before the settlement finalized.
2018-10-11T09:29:06 < dongs> be glad you didn't have to pay to haul that trash out
2018-10-11T09:30:06 < cjbaird> Their Solicitor (who now has power-of-attorney) has skimmed $5k from their moneys, and that looks like being used now.
2018-10-11T09:32:10 < cjbaird> Anyone keen on model trains? There's a large thing of those in the garage too..
2018-10-11T09:32:30 < dongs> japs are, im sure
2018-10-11T09:34:04 < cjbaird> Catholic Icon crap throughout the house, too. I offered to clean it with fire.
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2018-10-11T09:40:02 < jadew> cjbaird, I have a friend who's into model trains
2018-10-11T09:41:09 < jadew> is he selling them?
2018-10-11T09:44:13 < jadew> if he does, maybe send me a picture?
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2018-10-11T10:04:30 < cjbaird> jadew: I'll email the mate to take a photo when he can. 
2018-10-11T10:04:58 < jadew> thanks
2018-10-11T10:28:42 < dongs> hurry up and pad them
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2018-10-11T10:49:49 < zyp> hrm
2018-10-11T10:50:25 < zyp> apparently freertos doesn't handle tasks returning
2018-10-11T10:50:50 < zyp> crashes entire system with a prefetch abort, very useful
2018-10-11T10:51:14 < qyx> add vTaskDelete(NULL) before return :>
2018-10-11T10:52:10 < qyx> also fuk that v
2018-10-11T10:52:29 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/onHEm3D.jpg lol i just got to skimming through pacific rim
2018-10-11T10:52:32 < dongs> (2)
2018-10-11T10:52:45 < zyp> yeah, sure, I'm just surprised it's not handled sanely, they could have just put a function that does that in the initial LR
2018-10-11T10:53:03 < zyp> I guess now the task is started with some garbage in LR
2018-10-11T11:08:33 < Thorn> Soyuz launch T - 30 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDcYgYQbHg8
2018-10-11T11:17:04 < dongs> stonerX still can't bring people up right?
2018-10-11T11:17:20 < zyp> right
2018-10-11T11:18:31 < zyp> not sure how hard they're working towards that, but either way they're at least years away from putting humans on rockets
2018-10-11T11:20:42 < zyp> hmm, actually they have plans for a crewed mission in july next year
2018-10-11T11:20:48 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpX-DM2
2018-10-11T11:21:37 < zyp> just a question of how much the schedule will slip then
2018-10-11T11:24:42 < Thorn> there was a recent article about boeing failing hard with their crewed program
2018-10-11T11:25:03 < zyp> there's an uncrewed test planned for january too (SpX-DM1)
2018-10-11T11:33:15 < kakimir> does = operation return anything?
2018-10-11T11:33:35 < zyp> yes
2018-10-11T11:33:58 < zyp> that's why you can do stuff like a = b = 3;
2018-10-11T11:34:08 < kakimir> interestings
2018-10-11T11:34:29 < zyp> and also why you have pitfalls like if(a = 3) { ... }
2018-10-11T11:35:27 < zyp> I don't do it either, it looks stupid
2018-10-11T11:35:34 < zyp> better to just not be stupid
2018-10-11T11:35:52 < zyp> and I bet linters nowadays catch assignments inside if blocks
2018-10-11T11:36:35 < kakimir> there is logic in everything
2018-10-11T11:36:53 < kakimir> such enlightenment
2018-10-11T11:37:08 < zyp> gcc warns about it, at least
2018-10-11T11:37:09 < zyp> foo.c: In function ‘main’:
2018-10-11T11:37:09 < zyp> foo.c:3:2: warning: suggest parentheses around assignment used as truth value [-Wparentheses]
2018-10-11T11:37:12 < zyp>   if(a = 4) {
2018-10-11T11:37:14 < zyp>   ^~
2018-10-11T11:38:02 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-11T11:38:31 < kakimir> art of coding C is to understand what gcc says
2018-10-11T11:38:52 < kakimir> then ask here what it means what it says
2018-10-11T11:39:23 < dongs> keil is so advanced it underlines the if (fag = 3) before it even gets compiled
2018-10-11T11:39:32 < kakimir> it is to know that c++ is better but you must suck it
2018-10-11T11:41:34 < kakimir> most likelly better code checker
2018-10-11T11:44:09 < dongs> failure of the booster?
2018-10-11T11:44:10 < dongs> what
2018-10-11T11:45:12 < dongs> Thorn: beep
2018-10-11T11:45:30 < zyp> qyx, how did that queue/semaphore stuff you were working on some weeks ago work out?
2018-10-11T11:46:29 < zyp> qyx, I'm reading through freertos docs now, and see that event groups looks like a more suitable solution than semaphores for the problem you had (and a similar thing I want to do now)
2018-10-11T11:50:25 < dongs> nasa TV is down
2018-10-11T11:50:31 < dongs> the fuc is going on
2018-10-11T11:50:37 < dongs> did it blow
2018-10-11T11:50:59 < dongs> Thorn: beep
2018-10-11T11:52:12 < kakimir> is dongs into rocketry?
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2018-10-11T11:55:50 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwMDvPCGeE0 main nasa tv channel
2018-10-11T11:56:09 < Thorn> dongs: no word yet
2018-10-11T11:57:13 < dongs> ballistic reentry mode?
2018-10-11T11:58:03 < Thorn> most likely
2018-10-11T11:58:04 < dongs> RIP
2018-10-11T11:58:29 < Thorn> they could not have achieve orbit this early 
2018-10-11T11:58:33 < Thorn> +d
2018-10-11T11:59:58 < dongs> confirming again that todays soyuz ms10 launch did go into ballistic reentry mode a little bit after its launch, that means the crew will NOT be going to the ISS today, they will be taking a sharp landing coming back to earth'. search and rescue crews are always pre-staged in the event something like that happens
2018-10-11T12:00:44 < zyp> aww, I didn't have time to watch
2018-10-11T12:00:51 < zyp> what happened on the stream?
2018-10-11T12:00:56 < dongs> it died
2018-10-11T12:01:03 < dongs> after issues
2018-10-11T12:01:10 < dongs> yes 2
2018-10-11T12:01:17 < zyp> ah
2018-10-11T12:01:20 < dongs> they'er not dead yet
2018-10-11T12:01:35 < dongs> nasatv main channel isl ive but qyuiet
2018-10-11T12:08:49 < dongs> The last inflight failure of a crewed Soyuz rocket was the Soyuz 18 on 5 April 1975. In that case the Soyuz aborted at T+295 seconds. The crew which was headed to the Salyut 4 space station experienced 21 G during descent but landed safely.
2018-10-11T12:08:53 < dongs> 21G lol
2018-10-11T12:09:25 < zyp> big difference between 21G peak and 21G sustained
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2018-10-11T12:27:52 < cjbaird> Roscosmos need to improve the gender diversity of its cosmonauts to prevent situtations like this happening in the future.
2018-10-11T12:30:02 < cjbaird> The headline for an article I'm writing for Ars Technica
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2018-10-11T12:37:05  * karlp laughs
2018-10-11T12:38:44 < jpa-> if they identify themselves as being cosmonauts, who are we to tell them that they are not in space?
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2018-10-11T12:41:03 < kakimir> Laurenceb has ruined this channel
2018-10-11T12:41:16 < jpa-> it's a team effort, you can also contribute
2018-10-11T12:41:28 < kakimir> he is really a feminazi
2018-10-11T12:41:42 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKM6J0BMbjQ
2018-10-11T12:54:45 < kakimir> where is he anyways
2018-10-11T12:55:08 < kakimir> it has been really nice recently
2018-10-11T12:55:45 < kakimir> probably he is fighting his UI so hard he cannot irc
2018-10-11T12:56:09 < kakimir> whatever
2018-10-11T13:00:35 < kakimir> just male
2018-10-11T13:01:59 < kakimir> if I had studied terminology of gender identities I would know
2018-10-11T13:02:24 < kakimir> but I don't really care
2018-10-11T13:03:21 < kakimir> so cool
2018-10-11T13:17:22 < qyx> zyp: it is working, however if a service is both receiving and transmitting from/to the message router, it needs to do it in two tasks
2018-10-11T13:18:00 < qyx> otherwise it stucks, which is logical considering the queue length is 1
2018-10-11T13:18:44 < qyx> so probably I will need to improve it a bit
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2018-10-11T13:27:18 < dongs> you should identify as a capacitor
2018-10-11T13:47:42 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-11T13:51:20 < mawk> it's not a meme
2018-10-11T13:51:22 < mawk> it's a real thing
2018-10-11T13:51:56 < mawk> on french tv some host addressed a bearded male with hair on his arms by "sir, ..."
2018-10-11T13:52:01 < mawk> "who are you to tell I'm a man ? I'm not a man"
2018-10-11T13:52:20 < mawk> then the host said "and now you will tell me that you're not white ?"
2018-10-11T13:52:32 < mawk> so the crazy guy responded by "indeed, I'm half lebanese"
2018-10-11T13:52:35 < mawk> that's all
2018-10-11T13:53:37 < mawk> crazy guy actually responded "I'm not a man, sir"
2018-10-11T13:54:03 < mawk> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Vn7JOD7eYdU/WzkhaeN9XfI/AAAAAAAAVF4/3SbycEvnLQEQkhNskdm6DtySs2U0DqhuACK4BGAYYCw/s1600/Capture.PNG
2018-10-11T13:55:20 < mawk> "don't confuse gender identity with gender expression, I'm not a man, sir, I'm bisexual"
2018-10-11T13:55:39 < mawk> it's an avalanche of neologisms made to take advantage of normal people's confusion and take the power
2018-10-11T13:56:10 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-11T13:57:31 < mawk> on french irc I'm the last of my species
2018-10-11T13:57:54 < mawk> tech "underground" culture consists of only leftist ideology
2018-10-11T13:59:22 < kakimir> mawk: are you french?
2018-10-11T13:59:44 < mawk> more or less kakimir yes
2018-10-11T13:59:52 < kakimir> or canadian?
2018-10-11T13:59:53 < mawk> I'm french and dutch but I've only lived in France
2018-10-11T14:01:29 < kakimir> does SMBUS require some special hardware?
2018-10-11T14:01:38 < kakimir> or is it purelly I2C hardware?
2018-10-11T14:01:56 < mawk> it's partially compatible
2018-10-11T14:02:07 < mawk> but I guess you need special hardware
2018-10-11T14:02:29 < zyp> IIRC SMBUS has some protocol additions that might need hardware support
2018-10-11T14:02:38 < zyp> and there's also an optional interrupt line
2018-10-11T14:02:38 < kakimir> this sensor supports stuff like word read
2018-10-11T14:02:41 < mawk> hm
2018-10-11T14:02:46 < mawk> https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/476
2018-10-11T14:02:54 < kakimir> what is smbus alert address?
2018-10-11T14:02:59 < mawk> "Complete compatibility between both buses is ensured only below 100kHz."
2018-10-11T14:04:59 < mawk> 0b0001100
2018-10-11T14:05:42 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-11T14:05:46 < mawk> I copy pasted from somewhere
2018-10-11T14:05:50 < mawk> maxim missed a bit
2018-10-11T14:05:57 < kakimir> can normal i2c peripheral do word transmission?
2018-10-11T14:06:06 < kakimir> instead of byte transmission
2018-10-11T14:06:51 < kakimir> why SMBUS exists?
2018-10-11T14:06:59 < kakimir> why to use it?
2018-10-11T14:08:34 < zyp> my impression is that I2C is for onboard stuff, SMBUS is used for plug and play devices
2018-10-11T14:08:51 < zyp> IIRC the DDC stuff for monitors is based on SMBUS
2018-10-11T14:09:14 < mawk> but if it's compatible why call it a new standard
2018-10-11T14:09:29 < mawk> 13 years after the release of i2c
2018-10-11T14:09:34 < mawk> in PCs yeah
2018-10-11T14:09:46 < karlp> "take the power" more like letting you feel lik eyou're dealing with the important issues while the actual power gets more and  more transferred off on the side
2018-10-11T14:10:28 < zyp> hmm, seems DDC forked of I2C itself, not SMBUS
2018-10-11T14:10:34 < zyp> but still
2018-10-11T14:10:53 < mawk> yeah karlp 
2018-10-11T14:18:31 < kakimir> isn't display cable kind of..
2018-10-11T14:19:06 < kakimir> interference prone place for i2c bus to be placed in
2018-10-11T14:19:44 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-11T14:19:47 < kakimir> hellshield
2018-10-11T14:19:58 < kakimir> so if I talk really slow in i2c
2018-10-11T14:20:07 < kakimir> I can place it anywhere
2018-10-11T14:20:12 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-11T14:20:33 < kakimir> would you lowpass i2c?
2018-10-11T14:20:46 < kakimir> I don't see any reason not to
2018-10-11T14:20:57 < kakimir> if no need for speed
2018-10-11T14:21:25 < BrainDamage> put lowpass corner at 2/trise to preserve the edges
2018-10-11T14:22:15 < karlp> use CEC, go even slower....
2018-10-11T14:22:45 < kakimir> CEC?
2018-10-11T14:25:02 < dongs> kek
2018-10-11T14:27:57 < karlp> heh, ON RLS10 has both jtag _and_ swd. for the two cores.
2018-10-11T14:28:04 < karlp> I bet that's fun to work with
2018-10-11T14:29:56 < zyp> what's that?
2018-10-11T14:30:24 < zyp> google didn't give me anything obvious
2018-10-11T14:30:53 < zyp> just ball bearings, and I doubt they have jtag
2018-10-11T14:31:09 < dongs> looks like some gay radio SoC
2018-10-11T14:31:13 < dongs> http://www.onsemi.jp/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=RSL10
2018-10-11T14:31:56 < zyp> ah
2018-10-11T14:32:06 < karlp> yeah, sorry, mistyped.
2018-10-11T14:32:21 < karlp> just reading mailouts 
2018-10-11T14:32:37 < dongs> huh,
2018-10-11T14:32:42 < dongs> i actually googled RLS10
2018-10-11T14:32:45 < dongs> and that was 2nd link
2018-10-11T14:32:46 < dongs> on j-google tho
2018-10-11T14:32:52 < zyp> aha, jtag for a dsp and swd for a cortex-m
2018-10-11T14:34:04 < zyp> doesn't seem too unreasonable, if they need different debugger probes anyway
2018-10-11T14:35:27 < kakimir> my code turns red
2018-10-11T14:35:51 < kakimir> a good sign?
2018-10-11T14:37:10 < karlp> heh, thought this might be nice, but it's $120 http://www.eenewseurope.com/news/usb-multi-function-environmental-sensor-iot?news_id=110876
2018-10-11T14:38:28 < mawk> sensors like that are expensive usually I guess
2018-10-11T14:38:43 < kakimir> 3months is no joke
2018-10-11T14:38:47 < mawk> you can't monitor chemical levels without some expensive materials
2018-10-11T14:39:10 < kakimir> karlp: you should do bluetooth5.0 radiation meters
2018-10-11T14:39:21 < mawk> "Data from the modules can be downloaded over Bluetooth (BTLE) allowing designers to easily access recorded data."
2018-10-11T14:39:21 < mawk> it's a usb dongle, but you download using BT
2018-10-11T14:39:35 < mawk> why make a dongle in the first place
2018-10-11T14:39:38 < kakimir> to charge
2018-10-11T14:39:40 < zyp> sounded copypasted from the previous thing
2018-10-11T14:39:55 < mawk> if it's just for power it doesn't sound like a good direction to go towards with usb
2018-10-11T14:44:26 < mawk> even karlp's respectable news website uses that terrible multipage articles to display more ads
2018-10-11T14:44:26 < mawk> say thank you to buzzfeed
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2018-10-11T15:08:59 < mawk> https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/development-tools/hardware-development-tools/development-tool-hardware-for-mcus/debug-hardware-for-mcus/debug-hardware-for-stm32-mcus/stlink-v3set.html
2018-10-11T15:10:25 < dongs> NEGA OLD
2018-10-11T15:10:27 < dongs> err
2018-10-11T15:10:28 < dongs> mega old
2018-10-11T15:10:50 < mawk> :(
2018-10-11T15:11:03 < mawk> the article is from yesterday
2018-10-11T15:12:20 < jpa-> new to me
2018-10-11T15:13:15 < kakimir> why I get implicit declaration for memcpy_s?
2018-10-11T15:13:37 < dongs> isnt that a microsoft thing
2018-10-11T15:13:47 < dongs> also probly needs memory.h
2018-10-11T15:13:50 < jpa-> maybe you are not on the best operating system
2018-10-11T15:13:55 < kakimir> (since C11)
2018-10-11T15:14:50 < jpa-> hm yeah
2018-10-11T15:15:41 < kakimir> I wonder if my library implementation has it
2018-10-11T15:16:59 < jpa-> seems like newlib doesn't for some reason
2018-10-11T15:16:59 < kakimir> it doesn't
2018-10-11T15:17:06 < kakimir> redlib neather
2018-10-11T15:17:20 < kakimir> sucks man
2018-10-11T15:17:33 < kakimir> why dem do dis
2018-10-11T15:17:58 < jpa-> because they're not C11 libs?
2018-10-11T15:19:23 < kakimir> probs not
2018-10-11T15:19:39 < kakimir> why do dey use libs from year 2008
2018-10-11T15:20:26 < jpa-> because there isn't anything better
2018-10-11T15:20:36 < jpa-> redlib is C90, "with some C99 extensions" :P
2018-10-11T15:20:40 < kakimir> non safe functions are like from 80's
2018-10-11T15:25:59 < karlp> what does memcpy_s do anyway? you have to tprovide a length to memcpy already?
2018-10-11T15:27:18 < karlp> that "invalid parameter handler" stuff soudnsd pretty niche
2018-10-11T15:27:20 < kakimir> it adds parameter for buffer size
2018-10-11T15:28:15 < jpa-> i can see the point with memcpy_s the way microsoft does it sometimes, as automatic translation in compile time; but if you call it manually, why not just   assert(len < sizeof(dest))   or similar before it
2018-10-11T15:29:46 < kakimir> no need
2018-10-11T15:29:50 < kakimir> my code is perfect
2018-10-11T15:33:50 < karlp> kakimir: what parameter?
2018-10-11T15:34:51 < karlp> oh, ok, never noticed the extra one,
2018-10-11T15:34:55 < karlp> weird.
2018-10-11T15:35:13 < kakimir> well stuff about safe functions is
2018-10-11T15:35:26 < kakimir> to have destination buffer size
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2018-10-11T15:39:14 < kakimir> is there a shortcut to add -D stuff to build in ecplipse
2018-10-11T15:39:31 < kakimir> I could use it to enable different test features
2018-10-11T15:40:51 < kakimir> same thing
2018-10-11T15:43:52 < englishman> mawk: https://i.imgur.com/ce03NzG.png
2018-10-11T15:46:17 < mawk> lol englishman 
2018-10-11T15:46:27 < mawk> csn is a worker union ?
2018-10-11T15:46:30 < englishman> yea
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2018-10-11T15:48:18 < mawk> I'm bored, and I sleep very bad
2018-10-11T15:48:22 < mawk> I need new ideas
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2018-10-11T15:48:45 < mawk> maybe I'll read my old physics class to start doing radio stuf
2018-10-11T15:48:46 < mawk> f
2018-10-11T15:48:47 < BrainDamage> suicide booth
2018-10-11T15:48:58 < mawk> no I like myself too much for suicide
2018-10-11T15:49:16 < englishman> The Screen Composers Guild of Canada spoke to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage and proposed a new levy. They want all data consumption above 15GB to be taxed. They want a levy that would be distributed to copyright holders.”
2018-10-11T15:49:16 < englishman> In their brief, they say that 15GB allows “ample room for email, commerce and downloading.” 
2018-10-11T15:49:21 < BrainDamage> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbmQxZkSswI
2018-10-11T15:49:38 < mawk> lol englishman 
2018-10-11T15:49:54 < mawk> here in france they wanted to tax html hyperlinks
2018-10-11T15:49:59 < mawk> to sites other than yours
2018-10-11T15:50:04 < mawk> because links are used for piracy
2018-10-11T15:50:09 < BrainDamage> here in italy all storage media is preeemptively taxed
2018-10-11T15:50:21 < BrainDamage> because it's assumed it's used for piracy
2018-10-11T15:50:22 < mawk> we've got aging members of parliament, they don't know shit about the internet
2018-10-11T15:50:27 < mawk> but still, it's a young woman that proposed this bill
2018-10-11T15:50:38 < mawk> here too BrainDamage 
2018-10-11T15:50:42 < BrainDamage> you just have to be morally bankrupt, not old
2018-10-11T15:50:44 < mawk> private copy tax or something
2018-10-11T15:51:45 < karlp> this is cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFGxnF9SqDE
2018-10-11T15:53:28 < englishman> BrainDamage: here, all cassettes and VHS carry a levy. but because of how the law was written, this was not expanded to CDs, DVDs, and USB media later on. they kind of shot themselves in the foot
2018-10-11T15:54:24 < kakimir> have you ever had 2 different I2C devices with conflicting addresses?
2018-10-11T15:54:30 < kakimir> I mean not the same type
2018-10-11T15:54:43 < BrainDamage> copyright here is controlled by a para-statal company that the state has a partecipation in, the board of directors include some of the richest artists in the country
2018-10-11T15:54:47 < kakimir> do they just rand() their addresses
2018-10-11T15:54:49 < BrainDamage> absolutely no conflict of interest
2018-10-11T15:55:29 < Sadale> I think most I2C chips support address remapping
2018-10-11T15:55:43 < kakimir> at least limited remapping
2018-10-11T15:55:53 < Sadale> right. I meant limited remapping
2018-10-11T15:57:12 < kakimir> 3 days of codes
2018-10-11T15:57:18 < kakimir> compiles now
2018-10-11T15:57:25 < kakimir> time to launch debugger
2018-10-11T15:58:11 < mawk> you always code like that kakimir ?
2018-10-11T15:58:32 < mawk> don't you spend hours debugging
2018-10-11T15:58:36 < kakimir> sometimes weeks without debugger
2018-10-11T15:58:51 < englishman> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpOYoN8W4AA_sTj.jpg
2018-10-11T15:58:54 < englishman> gregori what did you do
2018-10-11T15:59:15 < englishman> lol that is the russian space program
2018-10-11T15:59:19 < englishman> 70s decor and a crt
2018-10-11T15:59:39 < mawk> it's the american that's plugged on the crt no ?
2018-10-11T15:59:43 < kakimir> found my eclipse low speed start problem
2018-10-11T15:59:48 < mawk> I try to maintain a working program at all times, I compile (and commit) whenever I do a minor modification
2018-10-11T15:59:57 < BrainDamage> kakimir: it's called eclipse
2018-10-11T15:59:57 < mawk> so I rarely have to debug
2018-10-11T16:00:00 < mawk> lol
2018-10-11T16:00:01 < kakimir> after adapter_khz 100 I get session in matter of seconds
2018-10-11T16:00:07 < kakimir> not in half a minute
2018-10-11T16:00:15 < karlp> fix your ground wires
2018-10-11T16:00:34 < kakimir> I think I went higher than that but at some point problems start
2018-10-11T16:06:34 < kakimir> openocd parameters
2018-10-11T16:07:27 < mawk> who named this like that
2018-10-11T16:08:01 < karlp> qsomeone a long time ago
2018-10-11T16:09:05 < kakimir> perfect name
2018-10-11T16:09:31 < kakimir> I personally preffer longer names than that but it tells just enough
2018-10-11T16:10:49 < mawk> yeah
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2018-10-11T16:26:27 < kakimir> interestings bug
2018-10-11T16:26:41 < kakimir> changed memcpy_s to memcpy
2018-10-11T16:27:25 < kakimir> those functions have different return values
2018-10-11T16:27:28 < kakimir> expected 0
2018-10-11T16:32:33 < kakimir> removed that condition check there
2018-10-11T16:32:52 < kakimir> now we are getting somewhere - thing has hanged into busyloop
2018-10-11T16:33:05 < kakimir> this is good
2018-10-11T16:34:55 < kakimir> I didn't expect nothing less
2018-10-11T16:37:38 < kakimir> aha
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2018-10-11T16:38:20 < kakimir> I changed define that enables i2c because multiple I2C devices now
2018-10-11T16:38:38 < kakimir> I thought I forgot something
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2018-10-11T16:43:49 < kakimir> i2c_enable() would be useful call
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2018-10-11T16:49:06 < kakimir> well that's it
2018-10-11T16:50:52 < kakimir> what kind of gay defence that is?
2018-10-11T16:51:29 < kakimir> I don't understand reference
2018-10-11T16:51:36 < kakimir> is it anime move?
2018-10-11T16:53:06 < kakimir> shit flies sideways?
2018-10-11T16:56:20 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/mhgmLvSb fresh
2018-10-11T16:57:46 < kakimir> how to read rigol i2c decode
2018-10-11T16:57:55 < kakimir> what is . and what is EXT
2018-10-11T16:58:10 < kakimir> ETX
2018-10-11T16:58:22 < kakimir> okay . is ASCII
2018-10-11T16:59:33 < kakimir> can this thing show ACK and NACK and Sr and P
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2018-10-11T17:03:59 < kakimir> for some reason I have flipped MSB and LSB
2018-10-11T17:04:45 < kakimir> no I don't
2018-10-11T17:04:51 < kakimir> LSB comes first?
2018-10-11T17:06:06 < kakimir> wait it's command I write
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2018-10-11T17:13:43 < kakimir> at least repeated start is successful!
2018-10-11T17:15:53 < jadew> now that's an effective subject for a newsletter: "It's time to say goodbye!" - I didn't confirm I wanted to still receive their stuff
2018-10-11T17:28:10 < kakimir> I found the problem
2018-10-11T17:28:29 < kakimir> sometimes sensor initializes and sometimes not
2018-10-11T17:28:51 < kakimir> recommd vdd is 2.7V min
2018-10-11T17:28:57 < kakimir> I had 2.6V
2018-10-11T17:33:59 < jadew> karlp, that's a cool robot
2018-10-11T17:34:34 < jadew> now they have to teach it to pass the butter
2018-10-11T17:41:21 < kakimir> somebody have been watching rick and morty
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2018-10-11T17:49:09 < BrainDamage> https://old.reddit.com/r/copypasta/comments/6qhyr3/rick_and_morty/ some fuel for the circlejerk
2018-10-11T17:50:14 < jadew> I like it
2018-10-11T17:55:31 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/wt9k1qvM
2018-10-11T17:55:44 < Laurenceb124> ^the commenters spotted irl
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2018-10-11T18:05:39 < emeb> everyone going to run right out and buy one of the new ST-Link pods that they announced today?
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2018-10-11T18:12:24 < Sadale> what's that?
2018-10-11T18:14:23 < Sadale> ah. This one https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/about/media-center/press-item.html/n4078.html
2018-10-11T18:15:04 < kakimir> hmm hmm
2018-10-11T18:15:04 < PaulFertser> https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/about/media-center/press-item.html/n4078.html
2018-10-11T18:15:04 < PaulFertser> btw, patches for openocd were already posted, I guess Antonio got hired by ST to add support.
2018-10-11T18:15:12 < kakimir> sensor is working
2018-10-11T18:15:54 < kakimir> but there is some serious issues though
2018-10-11T18:16:10 < kakimir> other registers do not look like what I expect them to
2018-10-11T18:16:58 < kakimir> I know it's active because if I cover sensor with my hand I can see bits changing
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2018-10-11T18:17:44 < emeb> englishman: another rocket failure caused by python?
2018-10-11T18:18:02 < englishman> no this one was javascript
2018-10-11T18:18:30 < englishman> someone deleted their navi repo from github and someone else replaced it with an anime ascii creator tool
2018-10-11T18:18:46 < Sadale> I like about its bridge. :3
2018-10-11T18:18:49 < englishman> so when pulling deps all their spaceflight software was replaced with kawaii acii
2018-10-11T18:18:50 < Sadale> At least I like the idea.
2018-10-11T18:19:06 < Sadale> Now we just wait for the clones and buy them :P
2018-10-11T18:20:16 < kakimir> oh me dumdum
2018-10-11T18:21:20 < BrainDamage> you should own the stereotype and say that you'll clone them yourself
2018-10-11T18:21:49 < Sadale> I guess clone it should be rather profitable.
2018-10-11T18:22:04 < Sadale> I'd imagine that this new STM programmer would be using their own STM32 microcontroller.
2018-10-11T18:22:31 < Sadale> I could just clone their PCB and use their firmware and make the STlinkV3 clone.
2018-10-11T18:22:55 < englishman> https://www.digikey.com/products/en/development-boards-kits-programmers/33?k=st-link&newproducts=1
2018-10-11T18:22:57 < englishman> $35
2018-10-11T18:22:59 < englishman> come on you cheap asses
2018-10-11T18:23:35 < Sadale> $35 is a lot.
2018-10-11T18:24:06 < englishman> how much does it cost to slow two men down from 11,000 mph
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2018-10-11T18:25:37 < emeb> sunk cost
2018-10-11T18:26:02 < englishman> landed cost
2018-10-11T18:27:04 < BrainDamage> the safety system is there regardless if they use it or not
2018-10-11T18:27:18 < BrainDamage> what you pay instead is a whole extra mission to make up for the failed one
2018-10-11T18:27:53 < englishman> but surely paying off one american and one russian is far cheaper than developing a bunch of safety stuff
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2018-10-11T18:29:00 < englishman> and lifting all that unused safety stuff on every successful flight
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2018-10-11T18:30:04 < Sadale> I could have bought a raspberry pi with $35.
2018-10-11T18:30:12 < Sadale> Or seven raspberry pi zeros
2018-10-11T18:30:18 < BrainDamage> there's this little problem about public funding
2018-10-11T18:30:34 < BrainDamage> your budget will be cut to 0 if your public image goes to shit
2018-10-11T18:30:51 < BrainDamage> and killing people because they are considered disposable is a good way to achieve it
2018-10-11T18:30:54 < Sadale> That rocket failure is sad :c
2018-10-11T18:31:01 < BrainDamage> so it's a good investiment even from a cynical point of view
2018-10-11T18:37:28 < qyx> are they alive?
2018-10-11T18:38:42 < qyx> ah seems like yes
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2018-10-11T19:05:46 < Laurenceb124> woah
2018-10-11T19:05:56 < Laurenceb124> Ukrainians
2018-10-11T19:06:15 < Laurenceb124> impressed tbh, space shuttle would have killed everyone in the area
2018-10-11T19:08:20 < englishman> well we don't know that this didn't
2018-10-11T19:09:46 < jadew> did a launch fail?
2018-10-11T19:10:06 < Sadale> it failed.
2018-10-11T19:10:13 < Sadale> all human are safe.
2018-10-11T19:11:38 < jadew> so it wasn't a critical failure
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2018-10-11T19:19:50 < sync> Laurenceb: more like russians
2018-10-11T19:23:37 < sync> englishman: the russians don't even run range safety on their Протон
2018-10-11T19:23:44 < sync> because that is something that could go wrong
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2018-10-11T19:58:43 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYhAGnsnO7w
2018-10-11T19:58:53 < Steffanx> haaaaiii
2018-10-11T20:09:34 < jadew> kakimir, saw it, only interesting if you're doing high volume
2018-10-11T20:09:57 < jadew> otherwise it makes no sense to struggle working with them
2018-10-11T20:10:00 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-11T20:10:12 < kakimir> make like milion of something device
2018-10-11T20:14:39 < Steffanx> Damn it, crappy 4k screens. Bought a 4k screen, got a second one. The second has quite a colour difference between left and right. (Right was much greener than the left side)
2018-10-11T20:14:48 < Steffanx> Got it replaced. but that replacement got it the otherway around -_-
2018-10-11T20:15:08 < jadew> heh
2018-10-11T20:15:08 < emeb> Same make/model?
2018-10-11T20:15:11 < Steffanx> Yes
2018-10-11T20:15:15 < karlp> dave discovered lcsc?
2018-10-11T20:15:18 < jadew> probably a new revision
2018-10-11T20:15:22 < emeb> the world is shit
2018-10-11T20:15:59 < Steffanx> perhaps, but also a bit unlikely jadew. Since i bought the screens 3 days apart from the same shop
2018-10-11T20:16:07 < jadew> ah
2018-10-11T20:16:17 < emeb> too bad that monitors don't have individual color balance correction.
2018-10-11T20:16:33 -!- m4ssi [~massi@host138-130-static.62-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2018-10-11T20:16:34 < emeb> Oh wait - mine does.
2018-10-11T20:16:39 < jadew> I always noticed a decrease in quality in monitors if you buy them a year apart or so (same model)
2018-10-11T20:16:42 < Steffanx> Yeah, im not sure what this is. if the backlight is uneven or if it's the actual pixels.
2018-10-11T20:17:05 < jadew> could be some bad factory calibration
2018-10-11T20:18:00 < Steffanx> Just going to get my money back and try to buy one from another shop
2018-10-11T20:19:54 < emeb> I wonder if you could buy two of the same make/model at the same time from the same store and get a better match?
2018-10-11T20:20:17 < Steffanx> unlikely. since the replacement i got has a similar issue
2018-10-11T20:21:26 < Steffanx> and it's not the matching. It's one display with difference is colour between left and right. A tiny difference i can handle, but this is terrible
2018-10-11T20:21:35 < emeb> Only way to be sure: https://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-z38c-375-inch-curved-display
2018-10-11T20:21:37 < Steffanx> Although i cannot capture it on a photo :P
2018-10-11T20:22:09 < Steffanx> Those screens can have the same issue i have now, but for 1.2k i do not expect that
2018-10-11T20:25:00 < Steffanx> Its a bit like a good old CRT you messed up with a magnet
2018-10-11T20:25:25 < Steffanx> i want the degauss function back
2018-10-11T20:25:52 < jadew> damn, that's not a cheap monitor
2018-10-11T20:26:13 < jadew> I never bought one above $500
2018-10-11T20:26:33 < englishman> at least its not 1080p liek most gaymer monitors
2018-10-11T20:27:31 < Steffanx> Hello englishman. How is your day
2018-10-11T20:27:45 < englishman> great i got a ton of new lucrative work
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2018-10-11T20:28:02 < englishman> was getting too much work so decided fuck it and put really high prices on all this weeks quotes
2018-10-11T20:28:05 < Steffanx> assemblying or real work?
2018-10-11T20:28:07 < englishman> and they all came back
2018-10-11T20:28:19 < Steffanx> oh lol
2018-10-11T20:28:21 < englishman> mostly assembly of course but some real work too
2018-10-11T20:28:57 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/DUc8tDI.gifv
2018-10-11T20:29:37 < Steffanx> She got what she deserved.
2018-10-11T20:33:56 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-11T20:39:01 < sync> Steffanx: calibrate that shit
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2018-10-11T20:49:58 < kakimir>  movie recommnds?
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2018-10-11T20:51:44 < Steffanx> Sync uh?
2018-10-11T20:53:00 < sync> I had the same issue, you will most likely not find 2 screens that are perfectly calibrated from the factory
2018-10-11T20:53:02 < Steffanx> How to calibrate?
2018-10-11T20:53:10 < sync> just get a calibration spider and run the softwarez
2018-10-11T20:53:42 < jadew> sync, his problem is that the the same screen has different shades for the same color
2018-10-11T20:53:44 < Steffanx> I dont want to make two screens equal. I want my single screen to be even. 
2018-10-11T20:54:07 < Steffanx> For some reason those shitty LG screens arent
2018-10-11T20:54:42 < Steffanx> One of em is perfect, the one i replaced got replaced with one with a similar issue.
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2018-10-11T20:57:48 < sync> ah
2018-10-11T20:57:50 < sync> yeah
2018-10-11T20:58:12 < sync> idk, I have some cheaper assus screens and they were not calibrated well but don't have that issue
2018-10-11T21:12:15 < qyx> Steffanx: 4K LG? which one
2018-10-11T21:14:13 < Steffanx> LG 27UD69P, qyx
2018-10-11T21:14:16 < Steffanx> -W
2018-10-11T21:14:37 < Steffanx> its not too expensive, but still.. id expect more from them
2018-10-11T21:15:26 < Steffanx> its like 400e
2018-10-11T21:15:29 < Steffanx> here in dutchland
2018-10-11T21:16:14 < qyx> uh 400e here
2018-10-11T21:16:18 < qyx> 440 I mean
2018-10-11T21:20:37 < Steffanx> At least the display port is dongs approved.
2018-10-11T21:32:41 < englishman> Steffanx: what was that edison clone you linked a while back
2018-10-11T21:32:59 < englishman> kakimir: falling down (1993)
2018-10-11T21:33:14 < Steffanx> me?
2018-10-11T21:33:25 < englishman> sì
2018-10-11T21:34:03 < zyp> Steffanx, aww
2018-10-11T21:34:22 < zyp> does it look as bad as my old dell?
2018-10-11T21:34:30 < Steffanx> idk about your old dell
2018-10-11T21:34:50 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ngQHz.JPG
2018-10-11T21:35:36 < englishman> yikes
2018-10-11T21:35:52 < kakimir> englishman: saw it 4months ago or so
2018-10-11T21:35:55 < Steffanx> lol, no zyp
2018-10-11T21:36:06 < Steffanx> i cant even take a photo of the issue i have, it wont show up
2018-10-11T21:36:31 < zyp> if you can see it, you can photo it, if you just do it right :p
2018-10-11T21:36:41 < Steffanx> sure :P
2018-10-11T21:36:45 < Steffanx> unless its my eyes
2018-10-11T21:37:06 < Steffanx> i didnt link it, but it wasn the sparkfun thing englishman? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14971
2018-10-11T21:37:21 < zyp> Steffanx, anyway, you got it replaced once for that issue already?
2018-10-11T21:37:32 < zyp> why not just replace it again?
2018-10-11T21:37:40 < englishman> kakimir: A Scanner Darkly (2006)
2018-10-11T21:37:51 < englishman> Steffanx: no it was some months ago
2018-10-11T21:37:58 < Steffanx> i will get my money back and buy from another shop, to have more chance to get another batch, zyp
2018-10-11T21:38:53 < zyp> I'll totally buy dell again, just because of their awesome service
2018-10-11T21:39:33 < Steffanx> no clue then, englishman
2018-10-11T21:39:34 < zyp> called dell about that issue in the middle of the day, next day I got woken up by a new one arriving at the door a bit before 8am
2018-10-11T21:41:06 < zyp> originally I had expected to have to return the old monitor first, and be without it for maybe a couple of weeks in total if they were fucking around
2018-10-11T21:41:16 < Steffanx> What happened with that one?
2018-10-11T21:41:34 < zyp> instead they sent me a new one immediately, and then sent somebody to pick up the old one a few days later
2018-10-11T21:41:53 < zyp> idk what happened to it, just turned out that way
2018-10-11T21:42:07 < Steffanx> oh, bad QC.
2018-10-11T21:42:10 < Steffanx> i guess
2018-10-11T21:42:11 < jadew> my dell sometimes doesn't wake up
2018-10-11T21:42:11 < zyp> it wasn't very visible during normal use
2018-10-11T21:42:16 < zyp> no, it wasn't like that new
2018-10-11T21:42:55 < Steffanx> isnt that what mr d complains about all the time jadew ?
2018-10-11T21:44:16 < englishman> thanks anyway stefs
2018-10-11T21:44:17 < jadew> I remember someone did complain about that
2018-10-11T21:44:26 < Steffanx> tell me when you know englishman
2018-10-11T21:46:35 < zyp> I suspect the screen might have turned out like that because I brought it with me on some flights
2018-10-11T21:46:47 < zyp> maybe it didn't like the pressure changes
2018-10-11T21:47:25 < zyp> (yes, I've went flying with a desktop computer and a 27" monitor)
2018-10-11T21:47:51 < Steffanx> haha
2018-10-11T21:48:26 < zyp> I also went flying with my old 24" imac several times :p
2018-10-11T21:48:56 < jadew> who needs laptops, eh?
2018-10-11T21:49:45 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2018-10-11T21:49:53 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-11T21:50:35 < zyp> jadew, laptops are cute but have way too little real estate to get work done
2018-10-11T21:51:00 < Steffanx> Grepped my logs between june and now, i didnt paste it englishman  :P
2018-10-11T21:51:08 < englishman> :<
2018-10-11T21:51:12 < Steffanx> steffanx.*http
2018-10-11T21:51:38 < zyp> I mean, I'm sitting on the couch with my laptop right now, but if I actually need to go do something useful, I'll walk over to my desk with six times the screen area
2018-10-11T21:51:38 < jadew> zyp: https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/242185-razer-debuts-new-triple-screened-laptop-latest-ces-innovation
2018-10-11T21:52:07 < Steffanx> 6 times.. what res is that laptop?!
2018-10-11T21:52:22 < zyp> 1280x800
2018-10-11T21:52:31 < Steffanx> hah, the good old times
2018-10-11T21:52:34 < englishman> whoa
2018-10-11T21:52:58 < englishman> zyp's chatter rank just fell a few notches
2018-10-11T21:53:02 < Steffanx> even my 13.3" "laptop" convertable thing is 1920x1080. Microsoft surface panel much.
2018-10-11T21:53:03 < zyp> it's seven years old, I can't really justify replacing it since I don't use it for much other than web and ssh
2018-10-11T21:53:31 < jadew> I only use mine in vacations
2018-10-11T21:53:33 < zyp> I've tried dropping it in the floor a couple of times, but it's still going strong
2018-10-11T21:53:54 < zyp> jadew, that used to be the case for mine too
2018-10-11T21:54:21 < zyp> then I got a wife who wants company on the couch
2018-10-11T21:54:25 < Steffanx> is it a real macbook at least?
2018-10-11T21:54:28 < zyp> yes
2018-10-11T21:58:32 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/o3UXi.jpg <- here's all I got from dropping on the floor
2018-10-11T21:58:54 < zyp> ethernet port and everything still works, so it's all cosmetic, and doesn't justify a new laptop :p
2018-10-11T22:00:52 < englishman> i had a 2010 macbook pro, the southbridge cooked (or whatever southbridges are now)
2018-10-11T22:01:09 < englishman> couldnt see any hard drives
2018-10-11T22:01:23 < zyp> I think maybe the hard drive in this laptop have died too
2018-10-11T22:01:26 < englishman> was a pretty good laptop
2018-10-11T22:01:55 < zyp> hard drive doesn't show up in system report anymore
2018-10-11T22:02:03 < zyp> maybe the cable just fell out
2018-10-11T22:02:38 < Steffanx> englishman, macbook pro?
2018-10-11T22:02:42 < Steffanx> Where does it go with this world?
2018-10-11T22:03:09 < zyp> it came with a hard drive and a dvd reader, I removed the dvd reader, moved the hard drive to that spot with an adapter cable and put a ssd in the original hard drive position
2018-10-11T22:03:15 -!- barthess [~barthess@nat-16-metro-pool-1-ip-2.cosmostv.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2018-10-11T22:03:34 < englishman> back then there weren't any other interesting laptops and it had nice features for the price
2018-10-11T22:03:57 < englishman> it was macbook aluminium nice stuff for $1k or dumb plastic shit for $1500
2018-10-11T22:04:02 < englishman> and a free ipod
2018-10-11T22:04:23 < englishman> now i have no idea what laptop id get, it is all plastic crap and 4k screens are super rare for <$1500
2018-10-11T22:04:27 < Steffanx> ^ hah, that's the deal i got.
2018-10-11T22:04:34 < zyp> I didn't get any ipod, but I bought this with student discount
2018-10-11T22:04:39 < zyp> like a week before I graduated
2018-10-11T22:04:59 < Steffanx> Yes, this was with student discount too. And ipod touch
2018-10-11T22:05:10 < Steffanx> which i hardly ever touched
2018-10-11T22:05:34 < zyp> I remember credit card reader in the shop failed
2018-10-11T22:06:07 < zyp> so I had to go to an ATM and pull out like 10k NOK
2018-10-11T22:06:16 < zyp> ATM only had 200 NOK bills
2018-10-11T22:07:06 < Steffanx> good morning crt
2018-10-11T22:07:20 < Steffanx> You're earlier every other day
2018-10-11T22:10:32 < mawk> https://pix.watch/Qf1cQy/CiVj_z.jpeg
2018-10-11T22:10:40 < mawk> what's the safest way to solder that with an iron
2018-10-11T22:11:49 < emeb> Friday is here, it's just not evenly distributed.
2018-10-11T22:13:31 < Steffanx> Yes, so crt ?
2018-10-11T22:15:31 < Steffanx> No, its get to work day.
2018-10-11T22:15:37 < Steffanx> Get the job done day
2018-10-11T22:18:34  * emeb has no job. is a drone. a drain on society.
2018-10-11T22:18:37 < jpa-> mawk: heh, won't those GND wires disturb the antenna?
2018-10-11T22:19:01 < jpa-> but as for soldering, i don't think you need anything special, just go and heat each pad and apply solder
2018-10-11T22:19:15 < mawk> yeah but they're tiny tiny
2018-10-11T22:19:43 < mawk> yeah maybe the gnd wires aren't placed the most intelligently
2018-10-11T22:19:53 < jpa-> 1mm spacing? doesn't seem that tiny
2018-10-11T22:19:55 < mawk> but it's a ceramic antenna, isn't it less prone to perturbation ?
2018-10-11T22:19:57 < mawk> yeah 1mm
2018-10-11T22:20:06 < mawk> well with a steady hand I guess it's fine
2018-10-11T22:20:18 < mawk> I'll have to do this before the coffee
2018-10-11T22:20:34 < jpa-> let the hand shake until it hits the correct place, then keep it there ;)
2018-10-11T22:20:43 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-11T22:20:49 < mawk> but that'll make solder bridge betwene the pads
2018-10-11T22:20:53 < mawk> it'll get messy
2018-10-11T22:21:06 < mawk> but I have 5 boards, room for practice
2018-10-11T22:21:22 < jpa-> only apply solder after the iron is in the right place, and don't apply too much
2018-10-11T22:22:16 < mawk> with lots of flux
2018-10-11T22:22:20 < mawk> and I should pre-tin the pads ?
2018-10-11T22:22:30 < mawk> they already have a leaded solder coating but I guess it's not enough
2018-10-11T22:26:27 < Ultrasauce> emeb https://spacebong.bandcamp.com/track/slow-spring life is a drone
2018-10-11T22:28:30 < jpa-> mawk: just normal amount of flux, no pre-tinning necessary
2018-10-11T22:28:45 < jpa-> dunno why you think it's so difficult
2018-10-11T22:29:11 < mawk> because I've messed up castellated vias like this once
2018-10-11T22:29:11 < jpa-> it's not harder than any SOIC smd chip or similar
2018-10-11T22:29:25 < mawk> by trying to ad hookup wires to unsoldered vias on some board
2018-10-11T22:29:50 < mawk> I made solder bridges and couldn't remove them
2018-10-11T22:31:14 < jadew> what Cracki said
2018-10-11T22:31:30 < jadew> use a big tip, put a lot of solder and drag it along
2018-10-11T22:31:38 < jadew> (flux them first)
2018-10-11T22:31:46 < jadew> that looks realy easy to solder
2018-10-11T22:33:12 < emeb> Ultrasauce: such bass
2018-10-11T22:57:04 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:8070:a19d:2500:8cd1:6f1:288c:3f24] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2018-10-11T22:59:39 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a02:8071:9289:5900:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2018-10-11T23:08:46 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpgLGFLaTrc for the cat lovers.
2018-10-11T23:19:35 < Steffanx> did you degauss it while she did that?
2018-10-11T23:21:47 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-58e1e253.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2018-10-11T23:25:39 < zyp> mawk, I think you're overthinking it
2018-10-11T23:27:48 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/BC358.JPG <- castellated vias are easy
2018-10-11T23:28:30 < antto> vastelated CIAs
2018-10-11T23:30:35 < zyp> cut in half
2018-10-11T23:31:40 < antto> is the via half gone, or half present?
2018-10-11T23:34:41 < kakimir> okay movie is done
2018-10-11T23:34:44 < kakimir> what to do next
2018-10-11T23:34:58 < kakimir> shower?
2018-10-11T23:35:24 < Steffanx> Yes
2018-10-11T23:39:37 < antto> then a mudbath
2018-10-11T23:39:43 < antto> i hurd it's healthy
2018-10-11T23:39:58 < kakimir> everything is
--- Day changed Fri Oct 12 2018
2018-10-12T00:01:01 < mawk> https://pix.watch/CNoeB2/UcfoQe.jpeg
2018-10-12T00:01:04 < mawk> it worked
2018-10-12T00:01:11 -!- BrainDamage_ [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-12T00:01:39 < mawk> I just scratched the solder mask of some part by accident
2018-10-12T00:01:48 < mawk> and damaged the copper trace around the module
2018-10-12T00:01:54 < mawk> dunno what it was for
2018-10-12T00:02:03 < Steffanx> Holyiot. Does ot really say that?
2018-10-12T00:02:09 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-12T00:02:13 < mawk> yeah Steffanx 
2018-10-12T00:02:20 < Steffanx> -_-
2018-10-12T00:02:22 < mawk> and on the business card they say they do "smart sexy vibrators"
2018-10-12T00:02:30 < Steffanx> Lol
2018-10-12T00:03:00 < mawk> some 802.15.4/BLE SoC
2018-10-12T00:03:03 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2018-10-12T00:03:03 -!- BrainDamage_ is now known as BrainDamage
2018-10-12T00:03:06 < mawk> nrf52840
2018-10-12T00:03:08 < kakimir> mawk: srly?
2018-10-12T00:03:30 < mawk> yes kakimir 
2018-10-12T00:04:07 < mawk> "holyiot - Shenzhen holyiot technology Co.,Ltd - Bluetooth - RF module -BLE mesh module - ... - Smart sexy vibrator"
2018-10-12T00:04:37 < Steffanx> Dongs is Holyiot confirmes
2018-10-12T00:05:09 < Steffanx> d
2018-10-12T00:06:34 < Steffanx> Alcohol is bad
2018-10-12T00:08:58 < antto> allpcb: https://i.imgur.com/nKP8rIG.jpg
2018-10-12T00:09:40 < mawk> what is that ugly brown color
2018-10-12T00:09:46 < mawk> your flux does that ?
2018-10-12T00:09:48 < antto> flux
2018-10-12T00:10:02 < antto> blame poland
2018-10-12T00:10:07 < antto> it's polish flux
2018-10-12T00:10:27 < Steffanx> I blamw your white pcb
2018-10-12T00:10:48 < Steffanx> You see everything on it. 
2018-10-12T00:10:52 < Steffanx> Gets ugly fast
2018-10-12T00:10:59 < antto> ehm hold on.. the flux around the tqfp there is extra brown because i used desoldering wick
2018-10-12T00:11:10 < antto> otherwise the flux itself ain't too bad
2018-10-12T00:11:18 < kakimir> you don't get that when you gel flux the whole board
2018-10-12T00:11:18 < mawk> the white-blueish pcb color of stm32 nucleo is nice tho
2018-10-12T00:11:22 < mawk> and yours too
2018-10-12T00:11:51 < antto> white PCB at allpcb woz same price as green
2018-10-12T00:12:35 < emeb> lol @ meander lines on I2S signals
2018-10-12T00:13:46 < Steffanx> Youre not the first one to comment on that
2018-10-12T00:14:09  * emeb is late to the party - again
2018-10-12T00:14:37 < mawk> https://www.allpcb.com/pcba_quote.html
2018-10-12T00:14:39 < mawk> why is it so expensive
2018-10-12T00:14:48 < mawk> it's like 100× the chinese minimum wage
2018-10-12T00:14:57 < antto> the silkscreen is really poor, but it's okay for prototypes
2018-10-12T00:15:34 < kakimir> all you guise do the cheapest pcb you can find?
2018-10-12T00:15:53 < mawk> this site isn't cheap
2018-10-12T00:15:54 < Steffanx> Yea
2018-10-12T00:16:15 < antto> kakimir there were cheaper options than allpcb this time, but allpcb had significantly faster options
2018-10-12T00:16:21 -!- diamondman_ is now known as diamondman
2018-10-12T00:16:27 < mawk> I received in 3 days from jlcpcb
2018-10-12T00:16:35 < mawk> with DHL
2018-10-12T00:16:36 < antto> the first time i ordered from allpcb i payed like 5 euro total for 11 PCBs
2018-10-12T00:17:25 < antto> * paid
2018-10-12T00:17:55 < antto> i think the shipping was free then (yet dhl)
2018-10-12T00:24:31 < BrainDamage> eh, they are not without advantage
2018-10-12T00:24:53 < BrainDamage> you get more flux stain exposure, but jizz stains are less evident
2018-10-12T00:25:17 < mawk> lol
2018-10-12T00:25:19 < mawk> DHL said they would Cracki 
2018-10-12T00:25:27 < mawk> but the delivery man's computer was broken
2018-10-12T00:25:33 < mawk> so he couldn't see it and just gave me the package
2018-10-12T00:25:42 < mawk> but I'm sure I'd paid fees yeah
2018-10-12T00:26:35 < mawk> even on ST nucleo boards there are flux stains
2018-10-12T00:26:39 < mawk> I tried to remove them but I couldn't
2018-10-12T00:26:43 < mawk> it just scratched the board
2018-10-12T00:26:55 < mawk> I tried light petroleum spirits and IPA
2018-10-12T00:27:12 < mawk> that'll melt through the board
2018-10-12T00:27:21 < BrainDamage> try acetone first and a medium brush
2018-10-12T00:27:29 < BrainDamage> an ultrasonic cleaner also helps
2018-10-12T00:27:54 < mawk> if it's not corrosive it shouldn't matter yeah
2018-10-12T00:27:58 < englishman> local pcb place is doing test runs of orange, pink and purple colours
2018-10-12T00:28:02 < mawk> even pure water could do for some time
2018-10-12T00:28:04 < englishman> pink is red+white blended
2018-10-12T00:28:11 < BrainDamage> you will never know if it's corrosive or not until you test it
2018-10-12T00:28:24 < englishman> yes
2018-10-12T00:28:43 < BrainDamage> also, if you're a pyromaniac, you can run an ultrasonic bath with acetone
2018-10-12T00:28:48 < BrainDamage> it aerosolizes it pretty well
2018-10-12T00:29:27 < BrainDamage> you could probably fudge something with the silkscreen
2018-10-12T00:29:44 < englishman> gradients maybe but it'd cost a lot
2018-10-12T00:29:50 < englishman> multiple soldermask layers are doable
2018-10-12T00:32:16 < mawk> lol
2018-10-12T00:34:28 < englishman> good job mawk 
2018-10-12T00:34:58 < mawk> it was the first time I soldered SMD stuff englishman 
2018-10-12T00:35:00 < mawk> so it's not very uniform
2018-10-12T00:35:06 < englishman> looks fine
2018-10-12T00:35:10 < mawk> but for the next 4 ones I have to do it'll look better
2018-10-12T00:36:14 < mawk> people do that in high school Cracki ?
2018-10-12T00:36:21 < mawk> isn't it more like college ?
2018-10-12T00:38:35 < BrainDamage> you can make fresnel lens at rf
2018-10-12T00:38:56 < BrainDamage> they are just trickier if you're in the diffraction limit
2018-10-12T00:40:27 < BrainDamage> so does that board
2018-10-12T00:40:44 < BrainDamage> you're just trading off for things like phase distortion and linearity
2018-10-12T00:42:07 < BrainDamage> I can build you things like a duplexer or a comb filter or a directional coupler on a pcb
2018-10-12T00:42:30 < BrainDamage> granted, all of those suck compared to their "solid device" counterparts, but they are doable
2018-10-12T00:50:27 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2018-10-12T00:52:09 < zyp> crt, have you watched that new netflix series about crts?
2018-10-12T00:52:52 < zyp> steffan said I had to tell you about it
2018-10-12T00:54:30 < zyp> maniac
2018-10-12T00:55:26 < zyp> I think so
2018-10-12T00:56:05 < englishman> he was eaten by a cd turntable
2018-10-12T00:57:35 < BrainDamage> mmm
2018-10-12T00:57:53 < BrainDamage> I wonder if my turntable has enough torque to let me play a cd
2018-10-12T00:59:56 < BrainDamage> marantz 2200
2018-10-12T01:01:27 < mawk> I tried to open again my physics classes on waves
2018-10-12T01:01:33 < mawk> there are so much things I forgot
2018-10-12T01:02:04 < mawk> maxwell equations, poynting vectors, d'alembert equation, wave packet, etc
2018-10-12T01:03:06 -!- boB_K7IQ [boB_K7IQ@c-98-247-192-179.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-12T01:04:16 < BrainDamage> just remember ( 1/c^2 ∂^2/∂t^2 - Λ^2 ) A^μ = 0
2018-10-12T01:05:46 < mawk> what's that ^µ ?
2018-10-12T01:06:32 < mawk> I thought it was just (Δ-1/c² @²/@t²)A = 0
2018-10-12T01:07:05 < BrainDamage> electromagnetic four-potential, written in tensorial form
2018-10-12T01:07:13 < englishman> your waveguide has flooded and is now 1/3 full of water. what is the new attenuation factor
2018-10-12T01:07:15 < mawk> ah yeah indeed
2018-10-12T01:07:16 < mawk> sorry
2018-10-12T01:07:23 < mawk> lol englishman 
2018-10-12T01:07:46 < BrainDamage> I've dumped waveguides in water
2018-10-12T01:07:58 < BrainDamage> makes for an ok-ish high power load
2018-10-12T01:08:01 < mawk> for me it's just like 3 years ago
2018-10-12T01:08:04 < mawk> I guess it'll be easy
2018-10-12T01:09:07 < mawk> but I did a pretty heavy usage of narcotics during that time
2018-10-12T01:09:16 < mawk> the only class I attended 100% was mathematics
2018-10-12T01:10:46 < englishman> glad you got your money's worth
2018-10-12T01:11:18 < mawk> it's free here englishman 
2018-10-12T01:11:26 < englishman> i didnt mean school
2018-10-12T01:11:30 < mawk> there have to be advantages to centuries of socialism
2018-10-12T01:11:30 < mawk> ah
2018-10-12T01:11:59 < englishman> the advantage is that narcotics users get to waste time in free school
2018-10-12T01:12:01 < englishman> sounds gr8
2018-10-12T01:12:18 < BrainDamage> grand ecoles too?
2018-10-12T01:12:22 < mawk> I was pretty good at the classes I attended
2018-10-12T01:12:28 < mawk> most of them yeah BrainDamage 
2018-10-12T01:12:29 < mawk> almost free
2018-10-12T01:12:39 < mawk> but the private ones aren't free indeed
2018-10-12T01:12:48 < BrainDamage> well, duh
2018-10-12T01:12:50 < mawk> the most prestigious ones even pay you
2018-10-12T01:12:56 < mawk> polytechnique and ENS
2018-10-12T01:12:59 < BrainDamage> sure, if you have a scholarship
2018-10-12T01:13:02 < mawk> no
2018-10-12T01:13:11 < mawk> they just give you a monthly compensation
2018-10-12T01:13:15 < mawk> for everyone
2018-10-12T01:13:45 < BrainDamage> that's quite nice, here you have to pay a state tax and a small univ tax, depending on your income
2018-10-12T01:14:04 < BrainDamage> but if your income is sufficiently low or your results sufficiently high, you'll get a scholarship from the state
2018-10-12T01:14:13 < mawk> I see
2018-10-12T01:14:19 < BrainDamage> it's nothing insane though, it was about 800 bucks/year
2018-10-12T01:14:27 < mawk> yeah it's something like that too
2018-10-12T01:14:37 < mawk> 600 or 700€/year
2018-10-12T01:14:46 < mawk> for universities if you're rich enough
2018-10-12T01:14:52 < mawk> and grandes écoles too I guess
2018-10-12T01:18:36 < BrainDamage> 800 is the cost of the tax
2018-10-12T01:19:02 < BrainDamage> the scholarship would refund you the full cost twice, and would provide you housing
2018-10-12T01:19:13 < BrainDamage> as well as things like food tickets
2018-10-12T01:20:25 < mawk> no I mean it's the cost Cracki 
2018-10-12T01:20:27 < mawk> not the salary
2018-10-12T01:20:40 < mawk> I don't know the compensation of the two schools that pay you
2018-10-12T01:20:57 < mawk> they pay you because they are military school or something
2018-10-12T01:21:03 < mawk> you have a uniform to wear on special days
2018-10-12T01:21:05 < mawk> with a funny hat
2018-10-12T01:21:29 < mawk> https://img-4.linternaute.com/j5xTdwyCYt1GEcfLCLF5z3geRUY=/fit-in/620x/smart/f5d0142cba334ce08ca0bc663fbf6d74/ccmcms-linternaute/233852.jpg
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2018-10-12T01:24:29 < englishman> that is a funny hat
2018-10-12T01:45:45 < jadew> BrainDamage, how are you typing those symbols? copy-paste or some typing assistant?
2018-10-12T01:46:13 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_method
2018-10-12T01:46:55 < jadew> you're switching your keyboard's layout?
2018-10-12T01:47:01 < BrainDamage> no
2018-10-12T01:47:10 < BrainDamage> I can switch keyboard transliteration mode
2018-10-12T01:47:38 < BrainDamage> eg I enable latex mode, and when I type \partial space, the text gets replaced with ∂
2018-10-12T01:47:54 < jadew> that's neat
2018-10-12T01:48:31 < zyp> meanwhile I just push alt-d: ∂
2018-10-12T01:48:49 < BrainDamage> or I can type using anthy and type watashi and it converts to 私
2018-10-12T01:49:08 < BrainDamage> yes, but I don't have to remember all those, I can just type the names naturally
2018-10-12T01:49:24 < BrainDamage> 🐱
2018-10-12T01:49:26 < zyp> I haven't latexed enough to remember the names
2018-10-12T01:49:39 < zyp> but I can hold alt and push random keys until I get the right symbol
2018-10-12T01:50:21 < jadew> I used to know a few codes too, but I forgot all of them
2018-10-12T01:50:40 < sync> zyp: I feel for you, troff is awful
2018-10-12T01:50:47 < BrainDamage> I also have a composé key set
2018-10-12T01:51:20 < BrainDamage> eg composé + e + ' : é
2018-10-12T01:51:26 < BrainDamage> which is pretty intuitive
2018-10-12T01:52:09 < jadew> BrainDamage, so which IME are you using?
2018-10-12T01:52:17 < BrainDamage> ibus
2018-10-12T01:52:27 < BrainDamage> möthead
2018-10-12T01:52:52 < jadew> I need one for windows
2018-10-12T01:53:01 < jadew> need is a strong word, but I want to be cool too
2018-10-12T01:54:24 < BrainDamage> >On Windows XP or later Windows, Input method, or IME, are also called Text Input Processor, which are implemented by the Text Services Framework API.
2018-10-12T01:54:45 < zyp> sync, huh?
2018-10-12T01:56:06 < sync> zyp: I'm trolling because troff is the other typesetting system people use/used
2018-10-12T01:58:58 < mawk> I made a hexchat module to convert latex to unicode on the fly
2018-10-12T01:59:25 < mawk> I was using it when I did some maths
2018-10-12T01:59:34 < mawk> maybe it's "were" and not was
2018-10-12T01:59:44 < jadew> yeah, I can't find an easy way to do it on windows, so I'll probably just make mIRC do it
2018-10-12T01:59:44 < mawk> let's toss a coin
2018-10-12T01:59:53 < sync> can you automagically convert the formulas to unicode and put them in there?
2018-10-12T01:59:57 < jadew> but now that I have to put work into it, I don't need it anymore
2018-10-12T02:00:04 < sync> because that would actually be neat
2018-10-12T02:00:25 < BrainDamage> unicode is not a suitable replacement for latex unfortunately
2018-10-12T02:00:32 < BrainDamage> basic things, yes
2018-10-12T02:00:48 < BrainDamage> but the moment you start putting glyphs into super or subscripts, you're screwed
2018-10-12T02:00:55 < sync> yeah
2018-10-12T02:00:57 < mawk> well it works
2018-10-12T02:00:59 < mawk> but it's tiny tiny
2018-10-12T02:01:02 < mawk> and badly aligned
2018-10-12T02:01:15 < sync> I did some fucky stuff in my thesis with that
2018-10-12T02:04:18 < sync> maximas latex export <3
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2018-10-12T02:46:15 < jadew> I started watching season for of black mirror
2018-10-12T02:46:19 < jadew> this one is actually good
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2018-10-12T04:21:08 < englishman> Altium 19.0.5 is out
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2018-10-12T05:47:11 < machinehum> hi
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2018-10-12T10:58:50 < aandrew> woot
2018-10-12T10:59:01 < aandrew> my nrf51 TDMA network shit is coming together
2018-10-12T11:00:26 < aandrew> almost full 2Mbit, it avoids interference and new nodes can come into the network and are assigned a timeslot on demand
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2018-10-12T12:15:35 < BrainDamage> aandrew: routing?
2018-10-12T12:21:36 < BrainDamage> hello crt, here, Laurenceb-grade link so you can feel your shitposting sense fulfilled https://0x0.st/sglm.webm
2018-10-12T12:26:39 < dongs> hello dongs
2018-10-12T12:27:27 < dongs> < antto> allpcb: https://i.imgur.com/nKP8rIG.jpg
2018-10-12T12:27:29 < dongs> wtf atmega32
2018-10-12T12:28:26 < dongs> implying thats any better
2018-10-12T12:28:46 < dongs> also what the fuck holy obsolete parts batman
2018-10-12T12:28:51 < dongs> is that some fucking SPDIF transmitter
2018-10-12T12:28:54 < dongs> the STA120D
2018-10-12T12:29:00 < dongs> aids
2018-10-12T12:33:30 -!- mawk [sabu@znc.serveur.io] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
2018-10-12T12:33:33 < dongs> ready 2 innovate
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2018-10-12T12:34:08 < dongs> crt, did you her
2018-10-12T12:34:09 < dongs> hear
2018-10-12T12:34:15 < dongs> my second favorate proj after zano
2018-10-12T12:34:19 < dongs> also shitted down
2018-10-12T12:34:31 < dongs> y
2018-10-12T12:34:33 < dongs> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brentmorgan/superscreen/posts/2304432
2018-10-12T12:34:37 < dongs> 2.5mil
2018-10-12T12:34:39 < dongs> pissed away
2018-10-12T12:34:47 < dongs> Today, I regret to report the end of the SuperScreen Kickstarter campaign, and the end of my operations related to the development, marketing and sale of the product. We have ceased these operations permanently, effective immediately.  
2018-10-12T12:34:58 < dongs> haha did he accept me?
2018-10-12T12:35:51 < dongs> haha yes
2018-10-12T12:35:52 < dongs> nice
2018-10-12T12:36:06 < dongs> i followed him a couple weeks ago when i found him on dicked in
2018-10-12T12:36:11 < dongs> totally expected to just get blocked
2018-10-12T12:36:57 < dongs> superscreen is just scam
2018-10-12T12:37:02 < dongs> zano at least tried something
2018-10-12T12:37:13 < dongs> i wonder what he dd with 2.5mil
2018-10-12T12:37:18 < dongs> probly bought a mansion in china
2018-10-12T12:38:00 < BrainDamage> did the projection bracelet scam fail yet?
2018-10-12T12:38:08 < dongs> which one
2018-10-12T12:38:10 < dongs> cicret?
2018-10-12T12:38:14 < dongs> or the uhh
2018-10-12T12:38:15 < dongs> ritot
2018-10-12T12:38:20 < dongs> i havent hearrd of that one in a whiile
2018-10-12T12:38:39 < dongs> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ritot-the-first-projection-watch#/updates/all
2018-10-12T12:38:43 < dongs> oh hey they just posted some shit
2018-10-12T12:38:47 < BrainDamage> oh, I didn't even know there was more than one
2018-10-12T12:38:52 < dongs> haha
2018-10-12T12:41:34 < BrainDamage> such as?
2018-10-12T12:42:52 < dongs> i also added brent on linked in
2018-10-12T12:42:57 < dongs> i doubt he will add me back tho
2018-10-12T12:43:01 < dongs> brent the superscreener
2018-10-12T12:43:18 < BrainDamage> did you add ivan?
2018-10-12T12:43:42 < dongs> yes but he didnt add me back
2018-10-12T12:43:47 < dongs> uh its gary niger
2018-10-12T12:43:57 < dongs> https://il.linkedin.com/in/gary-niger-77586252
2018-10-12T12:46:10 < dongs> i also got addded to STM32 EXPERTS group there
2018-10-12T12:46:15 < dongs> but theres like 10 posts in it
2018-10-12T12:46:18 < dongs> spaced like a year apart
2018-10-12T12:46:19 < c10ud> well, that 'superscreen' thing is doable though
2018-10-12T12:46:21 < c10ud> why did he fail?
2018-10-12T12:46:27 < dongs> no its not doable
2018-10-12T12:46:47 < c10ud> you can cast to your tv with android iirc
2018-10-12T12:46:48 < dongs> he failed because he never intented it to succeed
2018-10-12T12:46:55 < dongs> yes, but thats not what his shit did
2018-10-12T12:47:30 < c10ud> I didn't read through the bullshit, just the idea
2018-10-12T12:47:57 < c10ud> he just had to buy a super cheap tablet and let some chinaboi implement a miracast server
2018-10-12T12:48:07 < c10ud> I guess 2.5M were just enough
2018-10-12T12:48:18 < c10ud> sorry, I meant, more than enough
2018-10-12T12:50:23 < dongs> what he actually planned to do was run shitty copies of assdroid apps on the tablet
2018-10-12T12:50:30 < dongs> and just send across the urls/whatever
2018-10-12T12:50:39 < dongs> this was not sustainable for all the apps in existence
2018-10-12T12:50:45 < dongs> also settings and shit
2018-10-12T12:51:01 < dongs> anyway, the demos were all faked just using samsung tablet and samsung screen mirroring
2018-10-12T12:51:16 < dongs> also he claimed to support crapple stuff which would never ever work
2018-10-12T12:51:18 < c10ud> wow, that's really stupid then
2018-10-12T12:51:31 < dongs> since apple wouldnt let an app in the store that captured screen
2018-10-12T12:51:35 < dongs> in any kinda fashion
2018-10-12T12:51:50 < dongs> not that it would even work cuz apple doesnt multitask
2018-10-12T12:51:55 < c10ud> for sure
2018-10-12T12:52:04 < dongs> so if you did manage to have a screengrabber shit it'd be swapped out the minute some game loaded
2018-10-12T12:52:56 < dongs> of c ourse.
2018-10-12T12:53:04 < c10ud> it's funny that they let this shit go through though
2018-10-12T12:53:39 < c10ud> I thought people in the US had easy suing
2018-10-12T12:53:54 < c10ud> and you could blame others for being stupid
2018-10-12T12:54:22 < c10ud> I mean, they're facilitating scams after all
2018-10-12T12:55:09 < dongs> i dropped a message to the asstechnica dude who covered zano
2018-10-12T12:55:15 < dongs> with the superscreen final message
2018-10-12T12:55:19 < dongs> let's see if he writes anything on it
2018-10-12T12:56:33 < dongs> https://medium.com/@BrentMorgan/superscreen-will-change-the-way-you-use-your-smartphone-4f8828d6cf58 lol
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2018-10-12T12:56:49 < dongs> Faster than Wi-Fi. Superscreen transfers data between your phone via a secure SSP connection with no perceived delay and zero-lag
2018-10-12T12:56:52 < dongs> SSP????
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2018-10-12T12:57:03 < dongs> No Wi-Fi, no monthly contracts, no cords. Turn it on anywhere and it works as long as your phone is on and within 100 feet.
2018-10-12T12:57:06 < dongs> haha
2018-10-12T12:57:09 < dongs> its MAGIC!
2018-10-12T12:57:58 < c10ud> this ssp connection sounds really secure
2018-10-12T12:58:18 < dongs> i *think* he misspelled bluetooth SPP
2018-10-12T12:58:28 < dongs> but thats shit bandwidth and latency
2018-10-12T12:58:34 < dongs> cuz "SSP" doesnt exist
2018-10-12T12:59:09 < dongs> im trying to find this video of him "inventing" the tablet
2018-10-12T12:59:18 < dongs> while he was just disassembling galaxy S2 or someshit
2018-10-12T12:59:33 < c10ud> I thought more of 'super secure protocol' lolol
2018-10-12T13:00:06 < dongs> super shitty protocol
2018-10-12T13:01:45 < zyp> are we just shitting on kickstarters today?
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2018-10-12T13:08:27 < dongs> is there a non-retarded thing to calculate i2c TIMINGR...
2018-10-12T13:08:28 < dongs> holy shit
2018-10-12T13:08:31 < dongs> ST's ancient xls doesnt work
2018-10-12T13:09:45 < zyp> is it that much to calculate?
2018-10-12T13:13:28 < dongs> just seems liek a lot of shit
2018-10-12T13:13:52 < jpa-> why not just steal the values from some other code
2018-10-12T13:13:56 < dongs> The tables below provide examples of how to program the I2C_TIMINGR to obtain timings
2018-10-12T13:13:59 < dongs> compliant with the I2C specification. In order to get more accurate configuration values,
2018-10-12T13:14:02 < dongs> please refer to the application note: I2C timing configuration tool (AN4235) and the
2018-10-12T13:14:05 < dongs> associated software STSW-STM32126.
2018-10-12T13:14:07 < dongs> cuz they don't exist i guess
2018-10-12T13:14:10 < dongs> i didnt check cube yet tho
2018-10-12T13:15:00 < dongs> anyway i got 10us clocks so i think shit's properly setup for 100khz
2018-10-12T13:20:38 < veverak> dongs: the pdf has the formulas I think
2018-10-12T13:20:43 < veverak> some of the stm32 pdfs
2018-10-12T13:20:44 < dongs> it does
2018-10-12T13:20:46 < dongs> yes, the RM
2018-10-12T13:20:50 < dongs> thatss where i pasted that text from
2018-10-12T13:20:55 < veverak> ah :)
2018-10-12T13:21:00  * veverak used wat cubemx gave
2018-10-12T13:21:18 < dongs> i just dont wanna fire up the fucking cubemx VM
2018-10-12T13:21:19 < dongs> thats all :)
2018-10-12T13:21:25 < veverak> ah :)
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2018-10-12T14:01:14 < dongs> hmm the fuck
2018-10-12T14:01:18 < dongs> F0 and F3 I2c should be same, no
2018-10-12T14:03:04 < zyp> I think so
2018-10-12T14:03:18 < zyp> IIRC F0 is newer than F3
2018-10-12T14:03:29 < zyp> and F3 has the new one
2018-10-12T14:05:07 < dongs> i must be fucking something up
2018-10-12T14:05:10 < dongs> then
2018-10-12T14:05:17 < dongs> but im using the retarded F0 where i2c is on PFx pins
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2018-10-12T14:16:26 < c10ud> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/librecomputer/la-frite-open-source-fries
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2018-10-12T14:16:30 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/hLxKt7v.jpg no ack... wtf am i doing wrong
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2018-10-12T14:21:35 < dongs> zyp, can STM32 be used as NFC tag? no right not enough power?
2018-10-12T14:24:24 < zyp> what's your goal?
2018-10-12T14:25:32 < dongs> to reply to NFC shits from STM32
2018-10-12T14:25:51 < dongs> like with URL or wahtever the fuck like those tag shits
2018-10-12T14:26:15 < zyp> I have some M24LR-DISCOVERY boards, it's using the energy harvesting output from the M24LR to power an STM8 that runs a small lcd
2018-10-12T14:26:34 < zyp> I don't see why the same couldn't be done with a stm32, maybe l0 or something
2018-10-12T14:26:43 < dongs> huh, no shit? and how long can it run like that?
2018-10-12T14:26:54 < dongs> M24LR = is that eeprom or something?
2018-10-12T14:26:57 < zyp> as long as it's powered by the tag reader
2018-10-12T14:27:18 < zyp> yeah, it's like an i2c eeprom with hookups for an nfc antenna as well
2018-10-12T14:27:24 < zyp> or maybe it was spi, don't remember
2018-10-12T14:28:22 < dongs> hm does nfc tag shit just work by writing stuff to eeprom? i don't even need stm32 powered?
2018-10-12T14:28:47 < zyp> yes, you can update eeprom contents either through nfc or through i2c
2018-10-12T14:29:21 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/zZrRP.JPG <- here's an old pic of that shit being powered through my desk
2018-10-12T14:29:39 < zyp> holding it to my phone would power it just as well
2018-10-12T14:29:40 < dongs> mmmm
2018-10-12T14:29:50 < dongs> so that SOP8 or wahtever thing basically all you need?
2018-10-12T14:29:56 < dongs> it has all thecrap inside to work?
2018-10-12T14:30:10 < zyp> yeah, you just need to draw an antenna
2018-10-12T14:30:17 < dongs> hmm neat
2018-10-12T14:30:32 < dongs> and make it appear as URL or someshit is jsut am atter of sticking some data into that eeprom?
2018-10-12T14:30:36 < zyp> not that I've tried, I only got that shit for the reader half of the kit
2018-10-12T14:30:59 < zyp> yeah, you just have to make an NDEF record
2018-10-12T14:31:17 < dongs> mm neat
2018-10-12T14:31:32 < zyp> note that ST has newer stuff than M24LR
2018-10-12T14:31:39 < zyp> IIRC M24SR, and some other stuff
2018-10-12T14:31:51 < dongs> yeah i just saw that
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2018-10-12T14:31:56 < zyp> I think they have some kits demonstrating bluetooth or wlan pairing with that
2018-10-12T14:32:05 < zyp> i.e. putting pairing information in the eeprom
2018-10-12T14:32:20 < dongs> you can get it in gold-bumped dice
2018-10-12T14:33:07 < dongs> so a phone can keep "powering" a tag by costantly sending stuff over nfc antenna, as long as the tag tells it to do so?
2018-10-12T14:33:21 < dongs> i thought it was like a instantaneous thing
2018-10-12T14:33:32 < zyp> more like, as long as the phone wants to
2018-10-12T14:33:55 < zyp> readers are issuing commands, tags are slaves
2018-10-12T14:36:19 < zyp> I think normally readers keep powering the tag until the tag goes out of range
2018-10-12T14:36:39 < zyp> so they can detect when you stop scanning one tag and start scanning another
2018-10-12T14:37:56 < dongs> as far as my i2c , fucking niggers made cable wrong.
2018-10-12T14:38:00 < dongs> sda/scl is swapped
2018-10-12T14:38:26 < zyp> try dataing some clock instead of clocking some data
2018-10-12T14:38:32 < dongs> yeah
2018-10-12T14:42:25 < dongs> now it works
2018-10-12T14:42:32 < dongs> ok nfc shit hmmmmmmmmm
2018-10-12T14:47:30 < dongs> hmm, 24SR seems to be older
2018-10-12T14:47:35 < dongs> "Simple antenna design, backward compatible with M24SR series"
2018-10-12T14:47:39 < dongs> on 24LR page
2018-10-12T14:47:53 < zyp> oh
2018-10-12T14:47:58 < dongs> anyway, chinagirl seems to have htem
2018-10-12T14:48:07 < dongs> M24LR04E-RMC6T
2018-10-12T14:48:12 < dongs> i might innovate somethin up with it
2018-10-12T14:48:20 < zyp> ah, ST25DV are the new ones
2018-10-12T14:48:36 < zyp> https://www.st.com/en/nfc/st25-dynamic-nfc-tags.html
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2018-10-12T14:50:39 < dongs> These tags feature an innovative fast transfer mode
2018-10-12T14:50:47 < dongs> (((innovative)))
2018-10-12T14:56:32 < mawk> the indian internet café boy won't give me my UPS package without my ID
2018-10-12T14:56:37 < mawk> I'm being prejudiced
2018-10-12T14:56:56 < mawk> I'm sure if I was indian he'd give it to
2018-10-12T14:57:20 < BrainDamage> I wish they'd do that
2018-10-12T14:57:30 < BrainDamage> instead I had packages crammed into the mailbox slot
2018-10-12T14:57:41 < mawk> lol
2018-10-12T14:57:58 < mawk> they tried with my package but they said the package was too big
2018-10-12T14:58:10 < jpa-> here they just want that i poke the touchscreen that generates random squiggles
2018-10-12T14:58:17 < mawk> lol
2018-10-12T15:20:58 < dongs> in korea they didnt even asks me to sign on the screen wehn i used CC at shop etc
2018-10-12T15:21:05 < dongs> they just squiggle something themselves
2018-10-12T15:21:26 < dongs> one of the dudes asked if i wanted to sign or not, every other shop they just squiggled something themselves
2018-10-12T15:22:14 < jadew> crafty, they found a workaround
2018-10-12T15:23:49 < dongs> https://www.slashgear.com/superscreen-kickstarter-fails-takes-2-5m-down-the-drain-11549706/
2018-10-12T15:25:21 < jadew> TLDR? why did it fail?
2018-10-12T15:25:42 < dongs> it was never supposed to suced
2018-10-12T15:25:56 < jadew> ah
2018-10-12T15:27:39 < BrainDamage> how do you fail to implement miracast with 2.4M
2018-10-12T15:28:02 < BrainDamage> even if you WANTED to fail, with that much money you could invest a tiny bit, deliver, and get a crapload back
2018-10-12T15:28:14 < BrainDamage> so you've got stolen money and a lucrative business
2018-10-12T15:28:17 < jadew> probably dongs is right, it was a scam all along
2018-10-12T15:30:10 < BrainDamage> boats are holes in the water that you throw money into
2018-10-12T15:31:24 < jadew> have any of these kickstarters ended with a succesful class action lawsuit?
2018-10-12T15:32:09 < jadew> "Only backers can post comments." - too bad
2018-10-12T15:32:13 < zyp> > kickstarter > successful
2018-10-12T15:33:51 < jadew> everyone in the comments seems to invoke their rights to a full refund, after being told they're not getting one
2018-10-12T15:34:10 < dongs> that slashgear place says he bought a 7.5mil house
2018-10-12T15:34:11 < dongs> in california
2018-10-12T15:34:16 < dongs> but thats way more than 2.5mil
2018-10-12T15:34:29 < dongs> doubt he got that much return unless he invested into something super risky and got lucky
2018-10-12T15:34:51 < dongs> plz
2018-10-12T15:34:57 < jadew> maybe he already had 5 million and needed a bit more
2018-10-12T15:35:04 < dongs> nobody in the world would be able to cash out 7mil in buttcoin
2018-10-12T15:35:10 < dongs> even if you bought 2 mil worth
2018-10-12T15:35:11 < dongs> or hwatever
2018-10-12T15:47:59 < jadew> I think I said last night that I was watching black mirror season 4, it's season 3 that I'm watching and I'm surprised how good it is compared to the first two
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2018-10-12T15:50:27 < BrainDamage> > Your TasteStick comes with 200g (7.1oz) of salt obtained from protected and untouched areas of the Austrian Alps in an environmentally friendly way.
2018-10-12T15:51:15 < BrainDamage> the led looks pretty out of place
2018-10-12T15:51:39 < BrainDamage> why would you want a bright light as a centerpiece, it's not even that aethetic
2018-10-12T15:51:52 < Ultrasauce> that's a weird place to put a screen on a buttplug
2018-10-12T15:51:54 < jadew> it looks like garbage
2018-10-12T15:51:59 < jadew> I wouldn't want that on my table
2018-10-12T15:52:11 < BrainDamage> Cracki: search for opium wars
2018-10-12T15:52:17 < jadew> if they make a digital dispenser, it should look like a regular salt dispenser
2018-10-12T15:52:20 < BrainDamage> it's why china hates england and why hong kong
2018-10-12T15:52:58 < BrainDamage> yeah, it looks out of place compared to the rest of the dining utensils
2018-10-12T15:52:58 < BrainDamage> they are generally all made to fit a common theme
2018-10-12T15:53:21 < BrainDamage> that's futuristic piece of crap that doesn't fit the rest
2018-10-12T15:53:27 < jadew> yep
2018-10-12T15:54:42 < BrainDamage> meh that's dumb
2018-10-12T15:54:59 < BrainDamage> why making a stealth device when you make its specific pourpose and people voluntarily buy it?
2018-10-12T15:55:12 < BrainDamage> cf alexa, google home, etc
2018-10-12T15:55:34 < jadew> if the NSA had a hand in it, it would be a good product that people would want to buy
2018-10-12T15:55:42 < jadew> yeah, like alexa
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2018-10-12T16:55:50 < englishman> July 30, 2014 I decided to support your project. 4 years past, I still see nothing from you. I asked for refund for months and still see nothing in my bank account, do I need to wait another 4 years for refund??
2018-10-12T16:56:05 < englishman> From my point of view its exciting to see that you are still on track. I first also thought that its a scam. But now I see a bigger chance to once get a perfect product.
2018-10-12T16:56:09 < englishman> lol
2018-10-12T16:58:21 < kakimir> hmm
2018-10-12T16:58:38 < kakimir> why my stomach is turning when I read such?
2018-10-12T16:59:31 < Steffanx> Awh
2018-10-12T17:00:07 < kakimir> so many expectations
2018-10-12T17:01:21 < kakimir> so many years
2018-10-12T17:01:32 < kakimir> so many moneys
2018-10-12T17:01:42 < kakimir> englishman: what that message reffers to?
2018-10-12T17:01:52 < englishman> ritot watch
2018-10-12T17:02:46 < mawk> these kickstarters are depressing
2018-10-12T17:02:49 < mawk> so much money burnt
2018-10-12T17:03:09 < mawk> but unless it sits in a bank account in panama we can hope the scammers just spent it so it's back in the economy
2018-10-12T17:03:16 < mawk> so it's not lost after all
2018-10-12T17:03:20 < kakimir> if I had low / no ethics I would be kickstarter millionare by now
2018-10-12T17:03:54 < kakimir> I had so many crappy ideas and still do
2018-10-12T17:06:27 < englishman> yeah the guy spend it on a house and chinese slaves so the money is back in the economy
2018-10-12T17:08:06 < kakimir> englishman: can you embed led segments in my arm?
2018-10-12T17:08:12 < englishman> yes
2018-10-12T17:08:18 < kakimir> lets do did
2018-10-12T17:08:20 < kakimir> dis
2018-10-12T17:08:22 < englishman> i can load a 12 gauge shell full of leds
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2018-10-12T17:08:38 < kakimir> good
2018-10-12T17:08:58 < kakimir> place lpc in that shell too
2018-10-12T17:10:52 < Steffanx> Psssh
2018-10-12T17:11:07 < Steffanx> This is stm32 kakimate.
2018-10-12T17:13:28 < Thorn> lpc > stm32
2018-10-12T17:13:51 < englishman> says the inventor of the term "altium disaster"
2018-10-12T17:15:00 < kakimir> I wish I was in altidum scene
2018-10-12T17:15:07 < kakimir> secretly jelly
2018-10-12T17:15:07 < Thorn> Altium Disaster should be capitalized. it conveys your respect to the magnitude of the disaster.
2018-10-12T17:15:18 < sync> englishman: which broject?
2018-10-12T17:15:36 < englishman> ?
2018-10-12T17:15:38 < englishman> ritot?
2018-10-12T17:19:02 < Thorn> have a kitteh mr. englishman https://www.instagram.com/p/Bo1VCowATbf/
2018-10-12T17:20:26 < mawk> I can use some stlink v2 to program a random ARM board with SWD ?
2018-10-12T17:20:29 < mawk> using openocd or something
2018-10-12T17:20:36 < karlp> yes.
2018-10-12T17:20:36 < kakimir> ye
2018-10-12T17:20:42 < englishman> cool Thorn 
2018-10-12T17:20:49 < mawk> why do people buy expensive jlink probes then
2018-10-12T17:20:55 < kakimir> if openocd has support for you chip mawk 
2018-10-12T17:21:00 < mawk> yeah it has
2018-10-12T17:21:00 < karlp> because it's been around for longer than stlinks?
2018-10-12T17:21:13 < englishman> and has better tools and line drivers
2018-10-12T17:21:22 < jpa-> mawk: often to use it with specific software that doesn't work with openocd
2018-10-12T17:21:24 < karlp> there's a couple of raw jtag thigns taht stlink can't do, but that 
2018-10-12T17:21:24 < mawk> but why the price difference
2018-10-12T17:21:45 < englishman> st-links are subsidized by st selling billions of chips, jlink is subsidized by nothing
2018-10-12T17:21:55 < karlp> jlink is only selling jlinks, st doesn't sell stlink, they sell parts.
2018-10-12T17:21:59 < jpa-> jlink has very fast flashing, incremental flashing, tracing stuff etc. depending on model
2018-10-12T17:22:01 < karlp> cheap debuggers help st sell parts
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2018-10-12T17:22:23 < karlp> stlink has swo only, no etm or high end trace, but cheap jlink doesn't either
2018-10-12T17:23:05 < karlp> quite a few targets in oocd seem to be more limited by target flash speed more than debugger speed too.
2018-10-12T17:23:26 < mawk> I see that openocd has support for bitbanging using raspberry pi gpio
2018-10-12T17:23:32 < mawk> that sounds weird
2018-10-12T17:23:44 < englishman> you can also use your parallel port
2018-10-12T17:23:53 < mawk> that sounds even hackier
2018-10-12T17:23:57 < englishman> welcome to lunix
2018-10-12T17:24:10 < jpa-> not sure how jlink compares in debugging speed; atleast BMP is much faster than STLINK because it doesn't need to wait for the USB round-trip for everything
2018-10-12T17:24:12 < karlp> were "old" jlinks not all parallel bitbangers too?
2018-10-12T17:24:41 < karlp> jpa-: what processes do you notice where you actually notice that?
2018-10-12T17:24:51 < karlp> I know it's "true" I'm just not sure where I'd ever hit it?
2018-10-12T17:24:58 < karlp> single stepping speed?
2018-10-12T17:25:01 < jpa-> karlp: for example "layout asm" in gdb, which loads a lot of stuff every time you step forward an instruction
2018-10-12T17:25:22 < karlp> fair enough
2018-10-12T17:25:24 < karlp> never used that.
2018-10-12T17:25:51 < karlp> still, "faster, but you might not actually notice it"
2018-10-12T17:25:56 < jpa-> yeah
2018-10-12T17:26:19 < karlp> I used "display" for vars of interest, never eally noticed it being "slow" per se, 
2018-10-12T17:26:21 < karlp> but *shrugs*
2018-10-12T17:26:26 < karlp> maybe I just write bug free code ;)
2018-10-12T17:29:00 < zyp> or just leave the bugs in :)
2018-10-12T17:29:45 < karlp> that turns them into features right? 
2018-10-12T17:30:11 < zyp> you might argue that
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2018-10-12T17:52:22 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFuA50H9uek
2018-10-12T18:04:19 < jadew> it will probably have guns too, in the future
2018-10-12T18:05:58 < jadew> very exciting times ahead
2018-10-12T18:06:04 < jadew> our replacements are almost done
2018-10-12T18:07:16 < Rickta59> the raspberry pi thing is useful if you want to use network only on your arm-none-eabi-gdb program
2018-10-12T18:07:57 < Rickta59> and bitbanging isn't that strange, that is exactly what BMP does
2018-10-12T18:18:59 < karlp> also lets you reprogram a device on  a daughtboard for instance
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2018-10-12T18:31:24 < englishman> https://beefchicken.com/emporium/odetics/
2018-10-12T18:31:28 < englishman> space age tech
2018-10-12T18:32:14 < kakimir> recommend i2c or other integrated luxmeter solutions?
2018-10-12T18:32:23 < kakimir> I'm interested in - price
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2018-10-12T18:33:19 < kakimir> current one is like over 1eur / 1pc
2018-10-12T18:34:11 < englishman> a properly biased led
2018-10-12T18:34:27 < englishman> with a 3c MCU providing i2c
2018-10-12T18:34:36 < kakimir> nah man
2018-10-12T18:34:47 < kakimir> I don't want to have things like "biasing" in my project
2018-10-12T18:34:56 < englishman> then pay 1eur
2018-10-12T18:35:02 < kakimir> then I must
2018-10-12T18:37:36 < Thorn> bh17xx?
2018-10-12T18:37:44 < Thorn> >$1 probably
2018-10-12T18:41:12 < kakimir> thanks Thorn 
2018-10-12T18:41:58 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-12T18:42:01 < kakimir> these are cheaper
2018-10-12T18:43:20 < karlp> englishman: is that the trick of using leds as detectors? I only have a vague memory of how that works.
2018-10-12T18:43:35 < englishman> yeah i have no clue only that you *can*
2018-10-12T18:43:48 < englishman> i think Lux knows more and also has a fitting irc nick to know all about that
2018-10-12T18:43:56 < kakimir> photodiode is led reversed or so
2018-10-12T18:44:30 < kakimir> photons open channels to thru semiconductor
2018-10-12T18:46:16  * Ultrasauce jumps over kakimir's bandgap
2018-10-12T18:50:29 < qyx> kakimir: si1133 or what was that
2018-10-12T18:50:39 < qyx> englishman approved iirc
2018-10-12T18:52:01 < qyx> oh you are asking for a chep solution
2018-10-12T18:52:14 < karlp> cheap over repeatable/reliable.
2018-10-12T18:52:26 < karlp> soudnsd like kaks
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2018-10-12T18:52:37 < qyx> I would use a smd led then
2018-10-12T18:53:03 < englishman> ^
2018-10-12T18:53:05 < qyx> although you will pay more for calibration
2018-10-12T18:53:07 < englishman> si1133 is awesome
2018-10-12T18:53:11 < englishman> and <1eur
2018-10-12T18:53:15 < englishman> but too rich for kaks prolly
2018-10-12T18:55:37 < Steffanx> Dont be mean to the kakimate
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2018-10-12T19:03:38 < chipant> Hello guys... are there any open source projects to work not expecting of pay instead just to learn for a mentor ? 
2018-10-12T19:03:54 < chipant> *from a mentor
2018-10-12T19:05:46 < qyx> dongs will mentor you
2018-10-12T19:06:31 < Steffanx> Senpai.
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2018-10-12T19:08:23  * karlp points to github
2018-10-12T19:08:26 < karlp> piles of them.
2018-10-12T19:08:32 < karlp> bountysource even
2018-10-12T19:08:42 < karlp> pick somethign that interests you and start contributing
2018-10-12T19:09:15 < chipant> Karlp, yes thinking of this way as well :) 
2018-10-12T19:17:12 < karlp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithms_for_calculating_variance
2018-10-12T19:17:15 < karlp> hooray for wikipedia
2018-10-12T19:19:16 < mawk> why ?
2018-10-12T19:20:38 < karlp> calcuating variance without having to have all samples.
2018-10-12T19:20:46 < karlp> because I don't know maths well enough to derive that myself.
2018-10-12T19:21:14 < mawk> is it what this page is about ?
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2018-10-12T19:21:29 < mawk> rather I read that's it gives formula to compute variance without the numerical instability associated with squaring
2018-10-12T19:21:36 < mawk> but you still need the same amount of samples
2018-10-12T19:21:45 < karlp> it's interspersed on the page,
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2018-10-12T19:23:15 < mawk> ah you mean like a sliding exponential mean, reusing the last result to compute the new variance ?
2018-10-12T19:23:28 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-12T19:25:03 < sync> ah that shit
2018-10-12T19:27:51 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-12T19:28:06 < mawk> mean <- a*x + b*mean
2018-10-12T19:28:38 < mawk> you just need 1 next sample and the old mean
2018-10-12T19:28:48 < mawk> instead of the arithmetic mean where you need every single one
2018-10-12T19:29:08 < mawk> you have tricks like keeping a counter to arrange that a bit but it's pretty instable numerically
2018-10-12T19:30:24 < karlp> well, they say it's not, if youd o it right.
2018-10-12T19:30:36 < karlp> and personally I trust wiki more htan you.
2018-10-12T19:30:37 < mawk> no I'm talking about the arithmetic mean
2018-10-12T19:30:41 < mawk> which is instable
2018-10-12T19:30:49 < mawk> your covariance thing is good
2018-10-12T19:37:14 < mawk> it's not a += Cracki I think
2018-10-12T19:37:19 < mawk> well you can make it so yeah
2018-10-12T19:37:21 < mawk> maybe it's more stable
2018-10-12T19:37:31 < mawk> yeah I mentionned that
2018-10-12T19:37:40 < mawk> mean <- ((n-1)*mean + reading)/n
2018-10-12T19:37:45 < mawk> but it's mathematically ugly
2018-10-12T19:37:50 < mawk> and numerically too I guess
2018-10-12T19:38:13 < mawk> the sliding exponential mean is just beautiful
2018-10-12T19:38:26 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-12T19:38:41 < mawk> it's meant to smooth out perturbations
2018-10-12T19:38:52  * antto injects a denormal
2018-10-12T19:39:48 < mawk> when you see mean <- (1-a)*reading + a*mean you see that the two parameters have a natural interpretation
2018-10-12T19:39:56 < mawk> you setup the weight you assign to the new reading versus the old readings
2018-10-12T19:40:10 < mawk> and you can tweak the startup time and stuff
2018-10-12T19:40:22 < mawk> eg assiging a weight p to the last N values
2018-10-12T19:40:33 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-12T19:41:23 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-12T19:41:26 < mawk> you can tweak that
2018-10-12T19:41:29 < mawk> I guess
2018-10-12T19:41:56 < mawk> mean += (1-a)*reading + (a-1)*mean
2018-10-12T19:42:37 < mawk> mean += (1-a)*reading + (a-1)*mean <=> mean = (1-a)*reading + mean + (a-1)*mean = (1-a)*reading + a*mean
2018-10-12T19:42:42 < mawk> yes
2018-10-12T19:42:58 < mawk> but it doesn't look better
2018-10-12T19:44:38 < mawk> intuitively I don't see how errors could propagate even with the naive formula
2018-10-12T19:44:45 < mawk> for a constant reading the mean will just converge
2018-10-12T19:44:48 < mawk> the errors don't add up
2018-10-12T19:45:15 < mawk> yeha
2018-10-12T19:45:24 < mawk> but they're supposed to be approximatively equal
2018-10-12T19:45:33 < mawk> unless the reading are very far apart in time
2018-10-12T19:45:35 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-12T19:45:38 < mawk> but it would be a bad mean
2018-10-12T19:45:47 < mawk> more sensible values could be 80/20 or 70/30
2018-10-12T19:46:22 < mawk> yeah probably
2018-10-12T19:46:27 < mawk> but I mean it's that kind of order of magnitude
2018-10-12T19:47:00 < mawk> how is the time constant defined here ?
2018-10-12T19:47:10 < mawk> analoguously to a 1st order lowpass filter ?
2018-10-12T19:47:15 < mawk> ah
2018-10-12T19:47:15 < mawk> yes
2018-10-12T19:47:33 < mawk> let's compute that
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2018-10-12T19:48:31 < mawk> well it's output = 1-exp(-t/tau)
2018-10-12T19:49:02 < mawk> so tau is the time to rise to 1-1/e
2018-10-12T19:49:36 < antto> smells like first order filt0r
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2018-10-12T19:49:59 < antto> o_O
2018-10-12T19:50:04 < antto> schizzle!
2018-10-12T19:50:15 < antto> i'd never guessed it
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2018-10-12T19:50:33 < mawk> so Ntau for 1-1/e^N indeed
2018-10-12T19:52:56 < mawk> I have the step response
2018-10-12T19:53:02 < mawk> how do I define the time constant from that
2018-10-12T19:53:11 < mawk> ah yes
2018-10-12T19:53:18 < mawk> time to reach 1-1/e
2018-10-12T19:54:46 < mawk> so that gives n = (-1/log(alpha) - 1)
2018-10-12T19:59:02 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-12T19:59:49 < mawk> lol
2018-10-12T20:00:19 < mawk> sounds like how they decided if you went to hell or not; they weighed your hearth against a bunch of feathers, and if it's heavier you go to hell
2018-10-12T20:23:58 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-12T20:25:48 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/gj1Zsbh.png
2018-10-12T20:26:23 < karlp> what's szzzlttt?
2018-10-12T20:29:56 < englishman> karlp: the bms config/reseller guy https://www.lithiumbatterypcb.com/product/20s-84v-lithium-bluetooth-bms-with-100a-constant-discharge-current/
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2018-10-12T20:32:54 < kakimir> qyx: cheap and good
2018-10-12T20:33:00 < kakimir> repeatable
2018-10-12T20:34:13 < qyx> so much mosfets
2018-10-12T20:34:27 < qyx> many
2018-10-12T20:35:28 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/K0H967b.png
2018-10-12T20:35:31 < englishman> shitty pc software too
2018-10-12T20:36:46 < bitmask> what would you use to drive 3 rgb leds?
2018-10-12T20:36:54 < qyx> 9 gpio pins
2018-10-12T20:37:10 < kakimir> omg
2018-10-12T20:37:19 < kakimir> my BMS fetish
2018-10-12T20:37:21 < bitmask> what if you dont have 9 and can mcu's handle that much power?
2018-10-12T20:37:27 < bitmask> on gpio
2018-10-12T20:37:44 < zyp> just get WS2812Bs and run them all from a single timer channel
2018-10-12T20:37:52 < qyx> then there are rgb drivers
2018-10-12T20:37:55 < qyx> like zyp says
2018-10-12T20:38:02 < bitmask> thats what I'm leaning towards, but I wanted to see what other options were
2018-10-12T20:38:22 < zyp> other options are external led drivers
2018-10-12T20:38:30 < bitmask> model?
2018-10-12T20:38:31 < kakimir> do you see any business potential in BMS solutions?
2018-10-12T20:38:36 < zyp> basically a WS2812B with the smarts next to the led instead of inside
2018-10-12T20:38:41 < zyp> kinda pointless
2018-10-12T20:39:09 < zyp> see WS2801
2018-10-12T20:39:34 < bitmask> I know but for this the mounting would be easier with regular leds,  I'm probably just gonna use the ws2812b but like I said, was just curious what other things people use
2018-10-12T20:40:06 -!- phryk [~phryk@ip-176-198-148-56.hsi05.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-12T20:40:09 < bitmask> the old bulb ones
2018-10-12T20:40:18 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/HXhs86U.jpg
2018-10-12T20:40:19 < englishman> hmmm
2018-10-12T20:40:22 < englishman> idk if i wanna leave this plugged in
2018-10-12T20:40:47 < bitmask> yea thats what I assumed
2018-10-12T20:41:04 < bitmask> I know, Ive used them for a lot of things
2018-10-12T20:41:40 -!- _abc_ [~usre@unaffiliated/ccbbaa] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-12T20:43:35 < _abc_> superbia: get a CAT phone with ir camera in it
2018-10-12T20:43:35 < qyx> englishman: did you use some kind of encryption for your loras?
2018-10-12T20:43:45 < englishman> of course
2018-10-12T20:43:47 < englishman> lorawan
2018-10-12T20:44:08 < _abc_> superbia: I'm in Romania too and CAT is Caterpillar from USA.
2018-10-12T20:44:15 < _abc_> CAT phones are well known
2018-10-12T20:44:18 < qyx> I am trying to educate myself on what modes do those wireless protocols use
2018-10-12T20:44:26 < _abc_> toughphones for people who fall down, cut with chainsaws etc
2018-10-12T20:44:55 < _abc_> Who cares about dave. *I* reviewed it. It reads temperatures on screen up to 150 degC 
2018-10-12T20:45:05 < _abc_> above that it says "high" (er)
2018-10-12T20:46:53 < englishman> i think therm-app is ##stm32 approved
2018-10-12T20:47:02 < englishman> but pretty much everyone in here also has a flir e4
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2018-10-12T21:33:03 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/UYJIm2E.jpg
2018-10-12T21:33:56 < BrainDamage> >listing pluto as a planet
2018-10-12T21:41:21 < englishman> https://birdingbeijing.com/2018/10/12/chinese-mountain-cat/
2018-10-12T21:41:26 < englishman> wild chinese fluffs
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2018-10-12T22:10:35 < Steffanx> Where is the innovation today?
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2018-10-12T22:29:24 < qyx> jpa-: have you seen msgpack?
2018-10-12T22:29:51 < Steffanx> like json but small and fast?
2018-10-12T22:29:55 < qyx> fluffs could be a nice filesystem name
2018-10-12T22:30:07 < qyx> Steffanx: much like protobufs
2018-10-12T22:31:05 < Steffanx> nah was wondering if you meant: https://msgpack.org/
2018-10-12T22:31:51 -!- Hamilton [~Hamilton@unaffiliated/hamilton] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
2018-10-12T22:31:56 < mawk> is there a reason for me to use the stlink with openocd instead of say my raspberry pi's GPIOs ?
2018-10-12T22:32:14 < mawk> given that the stlink is classified as a high level adapter which needs to be hacked around to work with something else than ST boards
2018-10-12T22:32:24 < Steffanx> lies.
2018-10-12T22:32:28 < mawk> :(
2018-10-12T22:32:34 < mawk> it's in the high level adapter category in openocd docs
2018-10-12T22:32:34 < Steffanx> Nothing to "hack".
2018-10-12T22:32:39 < BrainDamage> wat
2018-10-12T22:32:41 < BrainDamage> wire SWD
2018-10-12T22:32:43 < BrainDamage> just works
2018-10-12T22:32:45 < Steffanx> Just use open ocd and wire up swd
2018-10-12T22:32:47 < mawk> yeah for the end user Steffanx 
2018-10-12T22:32:47 < Steffanx> what BrainDamage  also said.
2018-10-12T22:32:52 < mawk> but inside openocd source code I mean
2018-10-12T22:33:18 < Steffanx> Just use stlink as interface and pick your target.
2018-10-12T22:33:25 < mawk> "This is a driver that supports multiple High Level Adapters. This type of adapter does not expose some of the lower level api’s that OpenOCD would normally use to access the target."
2018-10-12T22:33:26 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-12T22:33:32 < BrainDamage> open obsessive compulsive disorder requires that you specify the chip
2018-10-12T22:33:57 < BrainDamage> stlink by texane can do auto selection, but it's simpler / worse than openocd
2018-10-12T22:34:03 < BrainDamage> also slower
2018-10-12T22:34:23 < BrainDamage> however, I'd argue that you don't switch chip every second, so you can afford to specify the target chip
2018-10-12T22:35:03 < Steffanx> Are you sure?
2018-10-12T22:35:22 < antto> Open Or Close Disorder
2018-10-12T22:35:22 < mawk> the stlink v2-1 embedded inside my nucleo board is supported ?
2018-10-12T22:35:22 < Steffanx> Just hook up your swd to your nrf and program that shit mawk  :P
2018-10-12T22:35:31 < Steffanx> Sure mawk
2018-10-12T22:35:34 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-12T22:35:38 < mawk> nice
2018-10-12T22:35:53 < Steffanx> Just use an up to date openocd. recent 0.10.0 should do
2018-10-12T22:35:58 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-12T22:36:03 < mawk> they also say to update the firmware of the stlink
2018-10-12T22:36:06 < mawk> inside openocd docs
2018-10-12T22:36:26 < Steffanx> i dont remember doing that, but perhaps it was already something up to date.
2018-10-12T22:37:10 < Steffanx> or perhaps i did that using the st link utilty, but i dont remember doing that
2018-10-12T22:39:33 < Steffanx> Did it work mawk ?
2018-10-12T22:40:42 < mawk> I didn't try yet
2018-10-12T22:40:50 < mawk> first I'm upgrading the stlink firmware
2018-10-12T22:40:59 < mawk> then I'll read some docs about the nrf to have something to flash
2018-10-12T22:41:24 < mawk> and write some makefile to compile projects for it
2018-10-12T22:44:05 < Steffanx> you might have to unlock/erase it first, then reflash the soft device and then your fw.
2018-10-12T22:44:51 < Steffanx> the joys of the nrf soft device stuff
2018-10-12T22:44:59 < mawk> ah the soft device is a separate flash area ?
2018-10-12T22:45:08 < mawk> I thought it was just some .o/.a they provide
2018-10-12T22:45:37 < mawk> it's something like a fpga ? else it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have it flashed specially like that no ?
2018-10-12T22:46:32 < Steffanx> No its just some lib.
2018-10-12T22:47:14 < mawk> ah
2018-10-12T22:48:32 < Steffanx> you probably can embed it in your binary, but... i dont see why
2018-10-12T22:49:16 < mawk> there is no softdevice for what I want to do, I guess
2018-10-12T22:49:22 < mawk> I need to do raw 802.15.4
2018-10-12T22:49:29 < mawk> I have to write a 6LoWPAN stack on top of that
2018-10-12T22:49:34 < Steffanx> Oh hm
2018-10-12T22:50:06 < Steffanx> Hows the dutchland project
2018-10-12T22:50:21 < mawk> the "job agency" didn't get back to me
2018-10-12T22:50:27 < mawk> but I have until january to find something
2018-10-12T22:50:55 < Steffanx> Job agency of a company or...?
2018-10-12T22:51:07 < mawk> not just a regular job agency
2018-10-12T22:51:21 < mawk> I used that job agency thing because their office is at the same floor as my father's office, so they did it as a courtesy for him
2018-10-12T22:51:30 < mawk> but I'll get in touch with the company directly
2018-10-12T22:52:37 < Steffanx> Is it EE/embedded stuff?
2018-10-12T22:52:57 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-12T22:52:59 < mawk> it's called sioux
2018-10-12T22:53:10 < mawk> but it's just the first company I stumbled upon
2018-10-12T22:53:34 < Steffanx> Have never heard of it
2018-10-12T22:53:50 < mawk> https://www.sioux.eu/
2018-10-12T22:56:14 < Steffanx> Hm
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2018-10-12T23:04:04 < aandrew> I do a LOT of nrf51 and nrf52 work. Just use jlink and lab11’s nrf51-bade
2018-10-12T23:04:27 < aandrew> nrf51-base
2018-10-12T23:05:32 < Steffanx> jlink is just another programmer...
2018-10-12T23:05:35 -!- phryk [~phryk@ip-84-118-72-14.unity-media.net] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-12T23:05:50 < BrainDamage> but keil is not just another ide
2018-10-12T23:05:56 < BrainDamage> keil is love, keil is life
2018-10-12T23:06:00 < BrainDamage> in keil we trust
2018-10-12T23:06:01 < catphish> i got communication between the st95hf and my android phone working :)
2018-10-12T23:06:34 < catphish> software card emulation should work nicely
2018-10-12T23:06:46 < BrainDamage> we could organize the first stm32 auto-da-fe, I mean, inquisition tribunals are fun for everyone
2018-10-12T23:06:59 < aandrew> Off github
2018-10-12T23:06:59 < aandrew> Soft device is just a library. 
2018-10-12T23:07:12 < aandrew> Keil is a set of libraries and compiler. No thanks. 
2018-10-12T23:09:43 < catphish> i trust gcc
2018-10-12T23:11:31 < Steffanx> misplaced trust.
2018-10-12T23:12:47 < catphish> sometimes i read the output, i don't understand it, so i go back to trusting it
2018-10-12T23:17:21 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/XtOt3Hh.png
2018-10-12T23:17:24 < bitmask> now thats a nice foot ;)
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2018-10-12T23:20:01 < Steffanx> Rob235 is alive \o
2018-10-12T23:20:14 < bitmask> herro
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2018-10-12T23:55:19 < karlp> bitmask: you can get apa102 or whatever (addressable leds, like ws2812) in 5mm throughole dome led style too if that fits better than the 5050 smd style
2018-10-12T23:56:01 -!- _abc_ [~usre@unaffiliated/ccbbaa] has quit [Quit: leaving]
2018-10-12T23:57:05 < karlp> qyx: I tried msgpack for a few things it's basicalyl worse than gzip+json in every way.
2018-10-12T23:58:14 < karlp> mawk: remember that the stlink hardware has been around for close to 10 years now, so yes, the firmwares in the past were a bit wonky, most currently shipping nucleos are good enough out of the box.
2018-10-12T23:58:22 < karlp> mawk: the oocd docs also say what version to be better than
--- Day changed Sat Oct 13 2018
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2018-10-13T00:04:21 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-13T00:05:00 < mawk> on my nucleo-144 I have version J32, and oocd talks about J21
2018-10-13T00:05:04 < mawk> so it's fine actually yeah
2018-10-13T00:08:59 < Steffanx> :P
2018-10-13T00:38:29 < mawk> openocd is meant for an earlier gcc version
2018-10-13T00:38:35 < mawk> and they had the great idea of using -Werror
2018-10-13T00:38:59 < mawk> so now that gcc warns about implicit fallthrough in switch statements without __attribute__((__fallthrough__)) or something, it makes an error
2018-10-13T00:39:37 < mawk> but they were kind enough to provide a --disable-werror switch to the configure script
2018-10-13T00:43:12 < englishman> if you connect your ragepberripi to stm32 over swd permanently why bother writing any stm32 software at all? just write directly to periph registers
2018-10-13T00:48:37 < sync> yes
2018-10-13T00:48:56 < englishman> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassette_Store_Day
2018-10-13T00:48:58 < sync> using a stm32 as port expander is neat
2018-10-13T00:49:00 < englishman> tomorrow
2018-10-13T00:53:34 < Steffanx> tomorrow is now
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2018-10-13T01:28:42 < englishman> is rohs testing destructive
2018-10-13T01:30:11 < sync> wut
2018-10-13T01:30:30 -!- brabo [~brabo@globalshellz/owner/brabo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
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2018-10-13T01:35:06 < englishman> idk how to explain it better
2018-10-13T01:35:11 < englishman> will i get the shit back working
2018-10-13T01:35:21 < englishman> or do they destroy it trying to find banned shit inside
2018-10-13T01:37:01 < mawk> it's destructive I guess
2018-10-13T01:37:35 < mawk> or maybe they can use some kind of non-destructive spectrography but it'd need expensive machines
2018-10-13T01:37:54 < mawk> but the cheap approach would be just chemical testing bits of the device
2018-10-13T01:38:09 < mawk> and customs/judiciary systems don't have much money
2018-10-13T01:38:11 < mawk> in europe at least
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2018-10-13T01:49:42 < englishman> https://www.zdnet.com/article/a-mysterious-grey-hat-is-patching-peoples-outdated-mikrotik-routers/
2018-10-13T02:01:49 < mawk> what's the vdd_target pin in the SWD header
2018-10-13T02:01:54 < mawk> do I need to connect it
2018-10-13T02:04:15 < Streaker> It's to power the target.
2018-10-13T02:04:32 < Streaker> If the target doesn't have its own power.
2018-10-13T02:05:00 < mawk> ah
2018-10-13T02:05:18 < mawk> thanks
2018-10-13T02:05:24 < Streaker> Actually
2018-10-13T02:05:50 < Streaker> There's a pin that's used to monitor the voltage on the target
2018-10-13T02:06:06 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-13T02:06:14 < mawk> well I thought it'd be that rather yes
2018-10-13T02:06:41 < Streaker> sorry. I'm confused.
2018-10-13T02:06:49 < Streaker> Read the manual. :p
2018-10-13T02:07:04 < mawk> I don't find much in it
2018-10-13T02:07:10 < mawk> maybe I've got the wrong one
2018-10-13T02:07:20 < mawk> the manual just says "VDD from application"
2018-10-13T02:10:50 < Streaker> Ill look at the schematic of my discovery board
2018-10-13T02:11:14 < englishman> vdd_target is so the debugger can match voltage levels of the target
2018-10-13T02:12:35 < mawk> ah, that's what I thought
2018-10-13T02:12:47 < mawk> but I wasn't seeing like a bunch of transistors near it on the board
2018-10-13T02:13:49 < mawk> unless the chip can do that internally but it's just a plain stm32f103c8
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2018-10-13T02:27:27 < Streaker> The schematic is weird
2018-10-13T02:27:58 < Streaker> It looks like the f103 is measuring it's *own* voltage
2018-10-13T02:28:13 < Streaker> not the target's
2018-10-13T02:30:08 < englishman> what schematic are you looking at
2018-10-13T02:30:19 < englishman> afaik legit st-dink v2 sch isnt public
2018-10-13T02:31:11 < Streaker> Discovery board schematic
2018-10-13T02:31:53 < englishman> hmm idk if itd be the same
2018-10-13T02:32:20 < Streaker> Shouldn't it be functionally the same?
2018-10-13T02:32:49 < englishman> could have less features vs. real stlinkv2 due to being attached to a devboard with known vcc
2018-10-13T02:33:11 < Streaker> Yes it's less. No isolation for e.g.
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2018-10-13T02:41:56 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQRUcQVFaOI
2018-10-13T02:42:02 < englishman> Laurenceb124-quality link
2018-10-13T02:53:34 < stroopwafel> hi sir
2018-10-13T02:54:37  * antto just witnessed a real-life gender-change
2018-10-13T02:59:18 < englishman> what will you do today crt 
2018-10-13T02:59:26 < englishman> it is International Cassette Store Day
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2018-10-13T03:24:47 < englishman> yup RoHS testing is destructive, they rip everything apart
2018-10-13T03:36:19 < upgrdman> http://cbsnews10.com/erie-pennsylvania-woman-high-on-meth-dies-after-pumping-gasoline-into-her-anus/
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2018-10-13T04:12:09 < bitmask> gloosy
2018-10-13T04:12:31 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/ZZhbYCK.png
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2018-10-13T04:22:33 < englishman> lol
2018-10-13T04:24:52 < dongs> mmm, gloosy
2018-10-13T04:25:24 < dongs> < chipant> Hello guys... are there any open source projects to work not expecting of pay instead just to learn for a mentor ?
2018-10-13T04:25:27 < dongs> < chipant> *from a mentor
2018-10-13T04:25:28 < dongs> lol?
2018-10-13T04:42:15 < bitmask> way to go microsoft
2018-10-13T04:42:31 < bitmask> deleting users data, who thought that was a good idea/
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2018-10-13T05:06:13 < upgrdman> https://www.reddit.com/r/hmmmgifs/comments/9mrrv5/hmmm/
2018-10-13T05:15:29 < jadew> englishman, rohs testing can be destructive but it's not your concern
2018-10-13T05:15:41 < englishman> it is if i dont get my shit back
2018-10-13T05:15:53 < englishman> anyway it is destructive they rip all the shit apart
2018-10-13T05:15:55 < jadew> the state shouldn't do it by itself
2018-10-13T05:16:14 < jadew> and not on your money for sure
2018-10-13T05:16:34 < jadew> if someone is reporting you, they have to provide the proof that it's not rohs complient
2018-10-13T05:16:49 < jadew> that means buying the unit and doing the testing themselves
2018-10-13T05:17:19 < jadew> why are you worried about it? something happening with your stuff in customs?
2018-10-13T05:18:15 < jadew> that's why there's so much non-rohs shit being imported from china
2018-10-13T05:18:27 < jadew> nobody is complaining
2018-10-13T05:19:24 < jadew> what's the device?
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2018-10-13T05:21:50 < englishman> rohs is part of ce cert
2018-10-13T05:21:53 < jadew> yeah
2018-10-13T05:22:03 < jadew> which is something you don't have to test for
2018-10-13T05:22:09 < englishman> apparently they do
2018-10-13T05:22:10 < jadew> you just design it in
2018-10-13T05:22:19 < englishman> idk the client is going thru it and failing where it shouldnt fail
2018-10-13T05:22:36 < jadew> ah, silly client
2018-10-13T05:22:50 < englishman> probably to avoid liability as they are pretty pro
2018-10-13T05:24:09 < jadew> there shouldn't be liability if he can prove that for all he knew he bought only RoHS components
2018-10-13T05:26:05 < jadew> I mispoke there - you have to perform some tests for CE, you don't have to test for RoHS (as long as you made an effort to buy RoHS stuff)
2018-10-13T05:29:55 < jadew> what failed? ICs?
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2018-10-13T05:34:36 < englishman> a solderpad and a brass standoff
2018-10-13T05:35:13 < jadew> lol
2018-10-13T05:35:49 < dongs> lmao @ nigger
2018-10-13T05:49:43 < englishman> dongs: lunix https://v.redd.it/wyd6ow1aetr11/DASH_2_4_M
2018-10-13T05:58:43 < jadew> lmfao, they put the wrong pad for DC: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RF-Biaser-Bias-Tee-10MHz-6GHz-FOR-HAM-radio-RTL-SDR-LNA-Low-Noise-Amplifier/332695416782
2018-10-13T05:58:49 < jadew> also check the back side...
2018-10-13T05:59:20 < jadew> the SMA connectors are not even soldered because they don't match the board lol
2018-10-13T06:03:08 < jadew> also the solder mask is removed from the DC trace where the shield should be mounted
2018-10-13T06:04:57 < jadew> 39 sold
2018-10-13T06:10:03 < jadew> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10MHz-6000MHz-6GHz-Wideband-amplifier-RF-Feeder-RF-Isolator-Bias-Feeder-Tee/332620693714
2018-10-13T06:10:09 < jadew> 2, loss: 0.5dB@3GHz 1.2dB@6GHz
2018-10-13T06:10:35 < jadew> he fucking uses 20 dB/division in his screenshot so you don't see how shit S21 is
2018-10-13T06:10:56 < Sadale> englishman, that's funny
2018-10-13T06:11:24 < Sadale> englishman, lol I've checked mine. It's legit.
2018-10-13T06:11:29  * Sadale is using xfce
2018-10-13T06:11:49 < jadew> I gave xfce a fair try a couple of years back, super buggy
2018-10-13T06:12:02 < jadew> maybe more than a couple
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2018-10-13T06:33:36 < jadew> are there scams on alibaba?
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2018-10-13T07:06:56 < englishman> 3 parts: Ships tomorrow + Free Overnight Shipping
2018-10-13T07:06:58 < englishman> 3 in stock
2018-10-13T07:07:00 < englishman> thanks ARROW
2018-10-13T07:07:02 < englishman> super helpful
2018-10-13T07:07:09 < dongs> 3 edisons?
2018-10-13T07:07:26 < englishman> no, but digikey has 45k in stock
2018-10-13T07:07:35 < dongs> oh do they
2018-10-13T07:07:40 < englishman> of this part
2018-10-13T07:07:41 < englishman> NOT edison
2018-10-13T07:07:57 < englishman> who the fuck would spend $2.25m on edison
2018-10-13T07:08:20 < dongs> What will you make?
2018-10-13T07:08:38 < dongs> apparently: nothing, after intel discontinues your shit
2018-10-13T07:09:09 < englishman> did you see my BMS
2018-10-13T07:09:19 < dongs> yeah looks nice
2018-10-13T07:09:36 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/HXhs86U.jpg
2018-10-13T07:09:48 < englishman> LDOs drawing 300mA @ 65V
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2018-10-13T07:23:33 < dongs> so
2018-10-13T07:23:51 < dongs> englishman: ah right
2018-10-13T07:23:57 < dongs> shitty design eh
2018-10-13T07:24:02 < englishman> idk
2018-10-13T07:24:11 < englishman> it has ldos to make 5v for bluetooth and mcus and shit
2018-10-13T07:24:16 < dongs> right
2018-10-13T07:24:18 < englishman> but 300mA at idle is a bit much
2018-10-13T07:24:39 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/gj1Zsbh.png
2018-10-13T07:24:43 < englishman> everything seems to work
2018-10-13T07:25:20 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/NLRcDYw.jpg
2018-10-13T07:26:09 < dongs> pro power cable
2018-10-13T07:26:12 < dongs> damn thats a nice fucking setup
2018-10-13T07:26:18 < dongs> makes me wanna rewire mine
2018-10-13T07:26:37 < englishman> idk you have the nice nissan stuff
2018-10-13T07:26:43 < englishman> i just hacked this up while dicknplacing at 3pm
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2018-10-13T09:06:59 < jpa-> qyx: sure, but i kinda like the schemas of protobuf
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2018-10-13T10:33:27 < dongs> MAKE:ing
2018-10-13T10:46:21 < aandrew> That was a bumpy flight
2018-10-13T10:47:11 < aandrew> englishman: nice. What is it? 
2018-10-13T10:47:40 < aandrew> Oh bms. Nice. 
2018-10-13T10:48:44 < aandrew> Wtf kind of street name is Derekh ha-Mamri’im?
2018-10-13T10:52:57 < aandrew> What the fuck am I supposed to do with this information: https://imgur.com/a/aQSHLvc
2018-10-13T10:55:04 < Steffanx> Ask a jew?
2018-10-13T10:56:24 < aandrew> I might be able to find one here
2018-10-13T10:57:21 < dongs> are you in israel
2018-10-13T10:57:31 < dongs> "Find the best time to leave"
2018-10-13T10:57:38 < dongs> i think they're pretty spot-on here
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2018-10-13T11:01:00 < aandrew> dongs: I am, and I thought the exact same thing about finding the best time to leave
2018-10-13T11:01:37 < Steffanx> Fjc crt
2018-10-13T11:02:13 < Steffanx> What does it mean
2018-10-13T11:04:02 < Steffanx> Fat jewish c...
2018-10-13T11:06:03 < dongs> wtf are you doing in israel
2018-10-13T11:11:37 < aandrew> Work. Nrf51/52 shit. They are integrating the TDMA network I designed with their product 
2018-10-13T11:13:51 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-13T11:24:28 < dongs> tweet some jewpics for everyone
2018-10-13T11:24:37 < dongs> did englishman make you isntall telegram yet
2018-10-13T11:24:43 < dongs> because irc fails for sending jewpix
2018-10-13T11:25:21 < aandrew> Lol
2018-10-13T11:25:47 < aandrew> I have seen a lot of attractive jewesses that’s for sure and I’m still stuck in the airport
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2018-10-13T11:45:28 < sync> nice dongs is there a ##stm32 pros group?
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2018-10-13T11:49:00 < dongs> yeah
2018-10-13T11:49:21 < dongs> just need to get crt and aandrew in there
2018-10-13T11:55:16 < Steffanx> Its what you didnt do
2018-10-13T11:56:03 < Sadale> lately I've heard a lot of rants about altium in this channe
2018-10-13T11:56:42 < Steffanx> Yeah, but thats because a new version was released
2018-10-13T11:56:59 < Steffanx> Every release comes with its rants
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2018-10-13T12:11:19 < Steffanx> So i started to watch Maniac, because ##stm32 appeoved..  im not impressed at all. 
2018-10-13T12:20:51 < zyp> Steffanx, how many episodes did you see so far?
2018-10-13T12:21:42 < cjbaird> jadew: haven't got a photo of the train models and other bits yet, but I have in my hand one of these atm.. https://www.bachmann.co.uk/product/graham-farish-c-class-0-6-0-271-secr-plain-green-372-775/  (149.95 Pommy Dollars...)
2018-10-13T12:26:28 < cjbaird> Looking like the guy has a Bachmann-based setup
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2018-10-13T12:37:30 < Steffanx> 1.3 or something zyp
2018-10-13T12:37:40 < Steffanx> 1.3 episodes.
2018-10-13T12:38:00 < Steffanx> No that was something else, crt. I think
2018-10-13T12:50:04 < sync> nice dongs
2018-10-13T12:51:59 < Steffanx> cjbaird is retired and into trains now?
2018-10-13T12:52:31 < BrainDamage> trains on two wheels
2018-10-13T12:52:55 < Steffanx> Yeah that old motorized 2 wheeler
2018-10-13T12:53:11 < BrainDamage> motorized wheelchair
2018-10-13T12:53:34 < Steffanx> Oh lol.
2018-10-13T12:53:54 < BrainDamage> the ambiguity was intentional
2018-10-13T12:55:02 < BrainDamage> hello stvn
2018-10-13T12:55:39 < Steffanx> Your disguise no longer works crt.
2018-10-13T12:55:46 < cjbaird> Steffanx: Someone local has bought a house that still had most of its contents inside (place was sold, but the prev owners didn't bother to move their stuff out--it's now all his technically..) There's a model train setup in the garage..
2018-10-13T12:56:21 < Steffanx> Big money? Those trainers are crazy enough
2018-10-13T12:56:51 < cjbaird> There was a Jaguar MG sportscar in the garage as well.. but that was one thing the previous owners did take with them..
2018-10-13T12:57:40 < Steffanx> Awh :)
2018-10-13T12:58:23 < cjbaird> I only got a glimpse of the train model, but they might be like $2-3k worth of bits in there.
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2018-10-13T12:59:28 < cjbaird> A Piano made in 1890.. in good condition, but those need profession retuning on a regular schedule, so almost valueless..
2018-10-13T13:00:23 < sync> or you tune it yourself, it only takes ages but is not hard
2018-10-13T13:00:28 < Steffanx> Nice as decoration in a villa
2018-10-13T13:00:38 < cjbaird> I did walk off with a 1960s-era Aussie-made bicycle with an /electric dynamo/ :D
2018-10-13T13:01:51 < sync> posh
2018-10-13T13:02:00 < sync> no acetylene lamp for you
2018-10-13T13:03:05 < cjbaird> sync: I've always had the impression that while tuning to within ~1 Hz is easy enough, proper tempering (~0.01 Hz) across all the keys is not that easy..
2018-10-13T13:03:36 < cjbaird> ..a job that takes a Pro about ?5 hours
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2018-10-13T13:04:30 < cjbaird> A very noice wide rear-rack (~20cm) on the bicycle too
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2018-10-13T13:07:11 < cjbaird> I think I might just take the dynamo and rack, and ask if a neighbour who loves stringing-up old bikes in a tree wants the rest.
2018-10-13T13:08:23 < sync> cjbaird: well, yeah
2018-10-13T13:08:28 < sync> as I said, it takes time
2018-10-13T13:08:38 < sync> but with a frequency counter you can get there
2018-10-13T13:08:48 < sync> the annoying thing is that the frames set over time
2018-10-13T13:08:57 < sync> so you have to develop a feel for how much to detune
2018-10-13T13:09:04 < sync> otherwise you go round and round and round
2018-10-13T13:09:41 < cjbaird> You also have to check the same keys in the other octaves don't beat.
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2018-10-13T13:17:22 < cjbaird> I'd think if I were going to tune it myself, I'd make it a project for a frequency counter that samples ~10 seconds worth before showing the result. Regular frequency counters I've used do 1 or 0.1s
2018-10-13T13:21:50 < Steffanx> Cant it be done automagically?
2018-10-13T13:22:19 < Steffanx> Get your arduinos to make the strings vibe.
2018-10-13T13:23:46 < Steffanx> Anyway: the screen story. It must have been a bad batch of screens. Got one from another store. Screen was made a month earlier and is all find and dandy.
2018-10-13T13:25:28 < aandrew> fast internet at the hotel is good
2018-10-13T13:25:56 < Steffanx> Are you in rocket range?
2018-10-13T13:26:05 < BrainDamage> cjbaird: make an automatic piano tuner
2018-10-13T13:26:05 < Steffanx> Rockets from gaza
2018-10-13T13:26:17 < BrainDamage> hundreds of servos
2018-10-13T13:26:50 < aandrew> Steffanx: I don't know to be honest
2018-10-13T13:27:03 < aandrew> I was very close to breaking out my nrf51/52 boards on the flight though
2018-10-13T13:27:12 < aandrew> I don't look arab enough to make anyone truly nervous though
2018-10-13T13:27:51 < Steffanx> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_arsenal
2018-10-13T13:28:23 < Steffanx> Sorry for mobile.
2018-10-13T13:28:38 < aandrew> everyone knows nukes have to be checked.
2018-10-13T13:29:27 < aandrew> yep I'm in rocket range
2018-10-13T13:29:45 < aandrew> er no
2018-10-13T13:29:47 < aandrew> I'm not that far south
2018-10-13T13:29:51 < aandrew> I'm north of TLV
2018-10-13T13:30:00 < aandrew> ra'annan
2018-10-13T13:30:05 < aandrew> er ra'annana
2018-10-13T13:30:13 < aandrew> however the fuck you spell it
2018-10-13T13:30:15 < aandrew> it's like banana
2018-10-13T13:31:09 < aandrew> dude I'm travelling with carried on a whole suitcase full of digikey parts
2018-10-13T13:31:15 < aandrew> thought for sure they'd make him check it
2018-10-13T14:00:53 < mawk> you're in israel aandrew ?
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2018-10-13T14:27:58 < Steffanx> yes he is, mawk
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2018-10-13T14:46:45 < Steffanx> im glad you took blaxters spot for now, crt
2018-10-13T14:48:24 < Steffanx> i didnt watch it
2018-10-13T14:48:40 < Steffanx> i dont like the simpsons
2018-10-13T14:52:15 < Steffanx> im sorry mate
2018-10-13T14:52:47 -!- cjbaird [~cjb@ppp118-211-204-81.bras1.syd2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2018-10-13T14:56:45 < antto> he ain't really sorry
2018-10-13T14:56:52 < Steffanx> ^
2018-10-13T14:59:39 < mawk> what should I do to test if openocd can talk to the nrf52
2018-10-13T14:59:50 < mawk> I just did "openocd -f interface/stlink-v2-1.cfg -c "transport select hla_swd" -f target/nrf52.cfg" and it gives a very lame error message
2018-10-13T14:59:55 < mawk> maybe it just wants a real command
2018-10-13T15:00:11 < Steffanx> what error?
2018-10-13T15:00:17 < mawk> "Error: open failed"
2018-10-13T15:00:30 < mawk> I'll try stracing that
2018-10-13T15:01:34 < Steffanx> it should connect and not error :P
2018-10-13T15:01:35 < mawk> it's browsing the PCI tree
2018-10-13T15:01:38 < mawk> then it gives the error
2018-10-13T15:02:48 < mawk> [pid 22376] openat(AT_FDCWD, "/run/udev/data/+usb:3-3.1:1.1", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
2018-10-13T15:02:51 < mawk> here's an open that fails
2018-10-13T15:02:56 < mawk> but it's the only one
2018-10-13T15:03:06 < mawk> maybe it wants its udev sugar in order to work
2018-10-13T15:03:09 < Steffanx> perhaps try the entire log and #openocd :P
2018-10-13T15:03:24 < mawk> ah they have a channel
2018-10-13T15:03:25 < mawk> thanks
2018-10-13T15:06:57 < Steffanx> but you do have to give more info, as in entire logs and used hardware, os etc. mawk  :P
2018-10-13T15:07:17 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-13T15:44:45 < englishman>   <sync>nice dongs is there a ##stm32 pros group?
2018-10-13T15:44:56 < englishman> you know it's pro, cuz dongs won't let me in
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2018-10-13T15:48:28 < Steffanx> lol dongs is the "OP" there?
2018-10-13T15:48:34 < bitmask> does light look better through white or clear filament
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2018-10-13T16:10:19 < Steffanx> 00:10:15
2018-10-13T16:15:56 < mawk> ah, I made the silkscreen backwards
2018-10-13T16:15:58 < mawk> that may explain it
2018-10-13T16:16:02 < mawk> but seriously who gives a pinout backwards
2018-10-13T16:16:05 < mawk> I know chinese don't right left-to-right but still
2018-10-13T16:16:17 < mawk> don't read*
2018-10-13T16:16:23 < Steffanx> lolwut?
2018-10-13T16:16:34 < mawk> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB17bcuhyMnBKNjSZFCq6x0KFXa6.jpg
2018-10-13T16:16:36 < mawk> I followed that
2018-10-13T16:16:44 < mawk> the second image
2018-10-13T16:16:53 < mawk> and it represents the module but from the bottom
2018-10-13T16:16:55 < mawk> so backwards
2018-10-13T16:17:09 < Steffanx> hah
2018-10-13T16:17:34 < catphish> what kind of asshat gives a pinout from the bottom?
2018-10-13T16:18:07 < mawk> I'm sure it's because they wanted their logo somewhere
2018-10-13T16:18:10 < mawk> and the only place was at the bottom
2018-10-13T16:18:15 < mawk> so they give the pinout that way
2018-10-13T16:18:16 < catphish> oh, you can see the logo is backwards
2018-10-13T16:18:21 < mawk> yes
2018-10-13T16:18:51 < catphish> well that blows goats
2018-10-13T16:24:48 -!- scrts [~quassel@unaffiliated/scrts] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-13T16:24:49 < mawk> I think I blowed the stlink
2018-10-13T16:24:54 < mawk> reverse polarity blah
2018-10-13T16:25:08 < mawk> usually the stm32 hardware is resistant to short circuits, but here I don't know
2018-10-13T16:25:37 < mawk> I've got a nicer error with the stlink of another nucleo board
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2018-10-13T16:29:11 < mawk> ah !
2018-10-13T16:29:13 < mawk> it works
2018-10-13T16:29:22 < Steffanx> yw
2018-10-13T16:29:27 < mawk> one stlink less later
2018-10-13T16:31:17 < mawk> I modified openocd code to include the exact serial of my stlink
2018-10-13T16:33:14 < Steffanx> cant you do that with config files?
2018-10-13T16:33:16 < catphish> this nfc thing is so complicated
2018-10-13T16:33:31 < mawk> yes I can Steffanx I guess
2018-10-13T16:33:53 < mawk> I just did this thing with what I know of openocd so far
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2018-10-13T16:35:51 < mawk> but also there's a second place where I modified a code, and this one is like frozen openocd code
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2018-10-13T17:01:00 < Laurenceb124> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-45805812
2018-10-13T17:01:07 < Laurenceb124> my sides @ the crowd
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2018-10-13T17:37:04 < bitmask> what would you use for a 1 channel unidirectional 3.3v to 5v logic level shifter
2018-10-13T17:38:12 < Streaker> first I'd check if a direct connection works. 
2018-10-13T17:38:25 < bitmask> yea I was gonna try it, theres a fairly good chance it will
2018-10-13T17:38:56 < bitmask> its for driving ws2812 with an esp
2018-10-13T17:42:15 < bitmask> ive heard some cheap brands don't work or sometimes glitch
2018-10-13T17:43:51 < mawk> a comparator seems the simplest no ?
2018-10-13T17:44:38 < Steffanx> or just something like http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74lv1t34.pdf for 30c max?
2018-10-13T17:44:48 < Steffanx> probably more then you already need, but  who cares
2018-10-13T17:45:03 < Steffanx> if you dont trust your ws2812 to do the level shifting like Cracki  said
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2018-10-13T17:46:34 < bitmask> ahh those are nice and small compared to the ones I already have, I'll get those if it doesn't happen to work thanks
2018-10-13T17:46:58 < bitmask> I have sn74ahct125
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2018-10-13T17:57:31 < dongs> sup chats
2018-10-13T17:58:13 < Steffanx> Good morning sir
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2018-10-13T17:59:42 < englishman> SONERAI IIL • $8,500 • FLY RIGHT NOW • Very low time Revmaster engine 2100D. Electric start with dual bendix mags. Garmin gps 296
2018-10-13T18:00:18 < Steffanx> SONERAI IIL
2018-10-13T18:00:19 < Steffanx> whops
2018-10-13T18:00:53 < englishman> why would i not get this
2018-10-13T18:02:12 < Steffanx> better not do this with yours: https://www.dvhn.nl/incoming/p1rctp-vliegtuig.jpg/ALTERNATES/WIDE_768/vliegtuig.jpg . Was not to far from here.
2018-10-13T18:02:44 < englishman> happens
2018-10-13T18:03:10 < englishman> this happened in texas yesterday
2018-10-13T18:03:10 < englishman> https://i.redd.it/tv0nvr9nosr11.jpg
2018-10-13T18:03:18 < englishman> those planes have chutes tho
2018-10-13T18:03:27 < Steffanx> this pilot didnt survive.
2018-10-13T18:03:53 < englishman> https://www.facebook.com/100001455687958/posts/2028002733924896/
2018-10-13T18:03:57 < englishman> probably not
2018-10-13T18:04:27 < Steffanx> ooh myyy gaaawd, i heard it D:
2018-10-13T18:06:16 < catphish> nfc anticollision stuff is weird magic that i don't understand properly
2018-10-13T18:06:25 < dongs> nice
2018-10-13T18:15:07 < Laurenceb124> oh wew I just watched 30s of "killing eve"
2018-10-13T18:15:30 < Laurenceb124> this is like Dr Who + NCIS + Sherlock + Numb3rs
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2018-10-13T18:15:46 < Laurenceb124> taking the worst bits of each then adding some special victims unit
2018-10-13T18:15:54 < Laurenceb124> the main victim is the viewer
2018-10-13T18:27:28 < emeb> heh
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2018-10-13T18:53:39 < Steffanx> Do you watch that all Laurenceb124?
2018-10-13T18:59:38 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2018-10-13T19:00:42 < mawk> try to sum it up to us catphish
2018-10-13T19:00:44 < mawk> it always help
2018-10-13T19:17:14 < karlp> englishman: never heard of rohs _testing_ honestly, curious to hear how this goes.
2018-10-13T19:17:59 < englishman> well it failed due to one brass standoff that might not have been rohs, and one solderpad that also could have been touched up by client
2018-10-13T19:18:10 < englishman> report had a totally raped board
2018-10-13T19:18:18 < englishman> broken pcb parts, decapped ICs etc
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2018-10-13T19:40:53 < Laurenceb124> Ben Shapiro SHOOTS Bill Maher TO DEATH like 6yr old PALESTINIAN BOY
2018-10-13T19:41:30 < Steffanx> Laurenceb124 is spammer confirmed. 
2018-10-13T19:41:41 < Steffanx> Random capitalized words...
2018-10-13T19:42:13 < catphish> mawk: thanks, but it's ok, there's way too much for that for now, i'll just keep reading, it'll sink in
2018-10-13T19:43:05 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/V5h8J8qc
2018-10-13T19:54:31 < Steffanx> Do some of you use partkeepr or something? or just pro-excel sheets?
2018-10-13T19:56:18 < Steffanx> or nothing.
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2018-10-13T20:29:10 < Steffanx> yeah, but whats the alternative
2018-10-13T20:33:57 < jadew> I started building a catalog thing this year
2018-10-13T20:34:09 < jadew> it's on pause now, but got pretty far with it
2018-10-13T20:34:17 < jadew> what would you like to see in such a tool?
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2018-10-13T20:35:59 < englishman> Steffanx: used original partkeepr for a long time
2018-10-13T20:36:05 < englishman> i just dont keep inventory anymore
2018-10-13T20:36:07 < englishman> not worth it
2018-10-13T20:36:26 < englishman> new partkeepr is pretty crap but at least someone is still trying
2018-10-13T20:36:48 -!- con3 [~kvirc@ml.sun.ac.za] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-13T20:37:19 < englishman> welcome back zef style stm32 developer
2018-10-13T20:39:17 < Steffanx> con3 cant talk.
2018-10-13T20:39:39 < con3> Steffanx: wait what?
2018-10-13T20:40:24 < Steffanx> lol welcome.
2018-10-13T20:40:55  * con3 is completely lost
2018-10-13T20:41:47 < karlp> hrm, we got all our pieces back from CE testing as I remember, but there's a lot of different standards I guess.
2018-10-13T20:42:47 < englishman> cracky sure is an expert on a whole lot of topics
2018-10-13T20:43:18 < englishman> maybe they decided to tear apart the board and do chemical testing because it failed the x-ray part
2018-10-13T20:44:45 < englishman> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/yarra3dx/yarra-3dx-the-most-advanced-3d-audio-system-in-the/comments?comment=UHJvamVjdENvbW1lbnQtMjE4OTgxMDc%3D
2018-10-13T20:48:46 < Steffanx> kickstarter is that still a thing?
2018-10-13T20:50:43 < Steffanx> I have to go to #kickstarter for that right? :P
2018-10-13T20:51:37 < bitmask> hmm dremel-ing through this steel tube wasn't nearly as problematic as I thought. Cut right through, no shattered cut off discs
2018-10-13T20:51:58 < Steffanx> did you wear your eye protection bitmask ?
2018-10-13T20:52:02 < bitmask> I did
2018-10-13T20:52:07 < bitmask> and hand protection
2018-10-13T20:52:11 < bitmask> and body protection
2018-10-13T20:55:21 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/Hr2v7wq7
2018-10-13T20:56:13 < Steffanx> So what is the Laurenceb124 up to lately? 
2018-10-13T20:57:24 < Laurenceb124> construction wurk
2018-10-13T20:57:37 < Laurenceb124> amerimutt guy offered to help me with bricklaying
2018-10-13T20:57:40 < Laurenceb124> my sides
2018-10-13T20:58:03 < Steffanx> Going for a secret basement or is still the same house you were working on?
2018-10-13T20:58:15 < Laurenceb124> still the same house
2018-10-13T20:58:50 < Steffanx> wasnt that like 2 years ago?
2018-10-13T21:00:02 < Laurenceb124> its a neverending task
2018-10-13T21:00:04 < bitmask> hmm I want to print a table saw to get a straight end on this pipe
2018-10-13T21:00:25 < Laurenceb124> kek mut
2018-10-13T21:00:33 < Steffanx> print a table saw...
2018-10-13T21:00:35 < Laurenceb124> diy level: reddit autist
2018-10-13T21:00:51 < Laurenceb124> inb4 "3d print a new house"
2018-10-13T21:01:05 < BrainDamage> 3d print a boat
2018-10-13T21:09:53 < zyp> Laurenceb124, I have more confidence in ikea-style construction of houses than 3d printing
2018-10-13T21:20:00 < Steffanx> so how is your ikea-style house getting along?
2018-10-13T21:45:59 < jpa-> https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43703447_10205126206151415_7292870454476275712_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-2.xx&oh=7b08601716adab0ec57d9dea16df27cc&oe=5C45CC31    cool animated jpeg
2018-10-13T21:47:45 < jadew> jpa-, it's loading kinda slow
2018-10-13T21:48:11 < Steffanx> lol jpa-
2018-10-13T21:48:17 < Steffanx> nice one.
2018-10-13T21:53:03 < bitmask> saw that on imgur yesterday
2018-10-13T21:53:46 < Steffanx> imgur cheats. they even do gif with sound
2018-10-13T21:58:28 < bitmask> grr I need a punch or something, how the hell am I gonna drill this 
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2018-10-13T22:00:54 < Steffanx> "this"
2018-10-13T22:01:42 < bitmask> printer frame reinforcement
2018-10-13T22:01:49 < bitmask> my own wonderful design
2018-10-13T22:02:03 < bitmask> (i just hope it doesnt make my frame worse :P )
2018-10-13T22:03:47 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/eOkltH5
2018-10-13T22:04:45 < bitmask> so the top z plates take a threaded rod to help along the x axis, then I added holes for this 1/2 inch square pipe that goes vertical along the z axis to that corner plate on the tile
2018-10-13T22:06:50 < bitmask> just cut the pipe but but now I need to drill and tap it
2018-10-13T22:08:50 < bitmask> and I have to remount the mainboard... not sure what I'm doing with that yet
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2018-10-13T22:21:45 < bitmask> ... what?
2018-10-13T22:22:00 < bitmask> I just need to create a little dent to keep the drill from slipping
2018-10-13T22:22:21 < Steffanx> still no camera.
2018-10-13T22:22:28 < bitmask> :)
2018-10-13T22:23:37 < bitmask> ugh, too much to do
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2018-10-13T22:26:23 < bitmask> gotta charge my car battery, I hope its not dead from sitting so long
2018-10-13T22:26:38 < bitmask> gots to get insurance and registration and inspection
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2018-10-13T22:45:58 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1TEHrlXawv3PMr30L-BVaPdPVwVAZzoyN?usp=sharing new engine for viking
2018-10-13T22:46:15 < kakimir> I think it might need a bit of service
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2018-10-13T23:49:35 < karlp> englishman: so, what CE norm was being tested for for this?
--- Day changed Sun Oct 14 2018
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2018-10-14T00:20:07 < catsoesh> Hey guys, I am new to ARM and STM32 chips, previously using only AVR based microcontrollers. I am currently having problems setting up timers in software and was wondering if anyone would be willing to lend me a hand
2018-10-14T00:20:36 < catsoesh> I have posted my code and what I have tried on reddit here at this link --- https://www.reddit.com/r/stm32f4/comments/9nx5ag/problem_setting_up_timers_on_the_stm32f030r8/
2018-10-14T00:22:16 < mawk> you're sure that you can clear the timer catsoesh ?
2018-10-14T00:22:30 < mawk> just compute the difference between recorded value and current value
2018-10-14T00:23:00 < mawk> uint32_t t = TIM6->CNT; while (TIM6->CNT < t + delay_time) continue;
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2018-10-14T00:26:42 < catsoesh> Well I thought you could do that because of this stackexchange post --- https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/318060/stm32-timer-encoder-reset
2018-10-14T00:26:46 < catsoesh> give me a second to test it out
2018-10-14T00:26:50 < catsoesh> the thing you suggested
2018-10-14T00:26:59 < mawk> ah
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2018-10-14T00:29:30 < mawk> actually my solution isn't very good
2018-10-14T00:29:44 < mawk> in case of overflow
2018-10-14T00:30:21 < mawk> should move the t to the other side of the inequality
2018-10-14T00:30:53 < mawk> and use a bigger integer size for calculation
2018-10-14T00:38:46 < catsoesh> alright so
2018-10-14T00:38:51 < catsoesh> I just tried
2018-10-14T00:39:09 < englishman> karlp: is there more than one? no idea. client is doing it. this channel says no, there is no testing needed, none exists. so i'm not sure who is correct.
2018-10-14T00:39:09 < catsoesh> void delay(uint16_t delay_time) {
2018-10-14T00:39:12 < Steffanx> uint32_t start = TIM6; while(TIM6 - start < delay); should work too. Ill handle the overflow. As long delay isnt larger than 0xfff ffff
2018-10-14T00:39:31 < Steffanx> *itll
2018-10-14T00:39:51 < zyp> 0x7fffffff even
2018-10-14T00:40:15 < zyp> the comparison needs to be signed
2018-10-14T00:40:36 < Steffanx>  ah right..
2018-10-14T00:41:05 < catsoesh> okay so I did the while loop you guys were talking about with uint32_t
2018-10-14T00:41:10 < catsoesh> and it only works if I use !=
2018-10-14T00:41:22 < mawk> you can't use !=
2018-10-14T00:41:33 < mawk> it's just by mere luck that you will exit the loop
2018-10-14T00:41:53 < zyp> well, you can if the timer is slower than the loop interval
2018-10-14T00:41:57 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-14T00:42:00 < zyp> by a safe margin
2018-10-14T00:42:01 < mawk> but you can't count on that
2018-10-14T00:42:05 < mawk> always I mean
2018-10-14T00:42:06 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-14T00:42:18 < zyp> it's all a matter of the design
2018-10-14T00:44:25 < catsoesh> thats exactly why I want to use a <, but for whatever reason the delay becomes 25ms instead of 1 second
2018-10-14T00:44:57 < zyp> are the timer running at the speed you think it is?
2018-10-14T00:45:56 < catsoesh> well I am pretty sure the board I am using has an 8 MHz clock, and when I set the prescaler to 8000, doing  while (TIM6->CNT < 1000); pauses for almost exactly 1 second according to my logic analyzer
2018-10-14T00:47:07 < catsoesh> sorry I meant --- while (TIM6->CNT != 1000); --- because the < doesn't work...
2018-10-14T00:47:30 < zyp> neither of those makes much sense
2018-10-14T00:47:38 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/Cn4Lq81v
2018-10-14T00:47:42 < zyp> Laurenceb124, no
2018-10-14T00:48:05 < Laurenceb124> ur future
2018-10-14T00:48:09 < catsoesh> zyp, what doesnt make sense?
2018-10-14T00:48:36 < zyp> you don't consider start time
2018-10-14T00:48:53 < zyp> although I guess you assume the counter starts at 0
2018-10-14T00:49:00 < zyp> since you just started it
2018-10-14T00:49:12 < zyp> but normally you have a freerunning counter
2018-10-14T00:49:27 < catsoesh> well thats why in my original code I have TIM6->CNT = 0;
2018-10-14T00:49:31 < catsoesh> right before the while loop
2018-10-14T00:49:48 < catsoesh> I posted my main.c file on reddit if you didnt see the link up a bit
2018-10-14T00:49:59 < zyp> I didn't, but ok
2018-10-14T00:51:21 < catsoesh> https://www.reddit.com/r/stm32f4/comments/9nx5ag/problem_setting_up_timers_on_the_stm32f030r8/
2018-10-14T00:51:28 < zyp> looking
2018-10-14T00:52:57 < zyp> catsoesh, can you send me an elf built with < ?
2018-10-14T00:53:21 < Laurenceb124> >I posted my main.c file on reddit
2018-10-14T00:53:26 < Laurenceb124> wtf did I just read
2018-10-14T00:53:59 < Laurenceb124> lul do u have him on block or something?
2018-10-14T00:54:33 < Laurenceb124> le reddit army
2018-10-14T00:54:55 < Laurenceb124> they need to go back to ebaums world
2018-10-14T00:55:11 < zyp> catsoesh, or even better, give me the unlinked main.o
2018-10-14T00:56:04 < Laurenceb124> le epin copypasta
2018-10-14T00:56:48 < Laurenceb124> https://external-preview.redd.it/F9I-21s0BKXqhsswl8GjKVLOZy9fa3UiLZUhx5vdZpQ.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=988dac03daf1938eb7f8d1ed21e7f70a91a03a22
2018-10-14T00:58:12 < catsoesh> zyp, I can send both just one second
2018-10-14T00:58:50 < zyp> I don't have any need for the final binary, just the .o
2018-10-14T01:00:20 < catsoesh> zyp, so do you want -- TIM6->CNT = 0;   while (TIM6->CNT < delay_time);
2018-10-14T01:00:33 < zyp> sure
2018-10-14T01:03:36 < catsoesh> Cracki, I accidentally mispelled catshoes and I never changed it back
2018-10-14T01:03:42 < catsoesh> zyp, Like this? -- https://pastebin.com/yWVUk4mK
2018-10-14T01:04:11 < zyp> that works, I guess
2018-10-14T01:04:23 < zyp> I asked for the .o, not the .s, but I were just gonna disassemble it anyway
2018-10-14T01:04:44 < catsoesh> oh sorry, what is the flag to get the .o?
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2018-10-14T01:05:00 < catsoesh> oh wait is it -o?
2018-10-14T01:05:14 < zyp> -c, but it doesn't matter now, the assembly you pasted is fine
2018-10-14T01:06:18 < zyp> how do you even compile stuff normally? all in one operation?
2018-10-14T01:06:35 < zyp> most makefiles or whatever builds the objects and then links them as a separate step
2018-10-14T01:08:06 < zyp> hmm
2018-10-14T01:08:09 < zyp> code looks sane
2018-10-14T01:08:39 < catsoesh> well so I am using an IDE called platformio through vscode on linux
2018-10-14T01:08:47 < zyp> haha
2018-10-14T01:09:06 < catsoesh> I normally do make files for normal C, and for AVRs I used atmel studio
2018-10-14T01:09:17 < catsoesh> but for this stuff its all black box and I am trying to figure it out
2018-10-14T01:10:03 < zyp> side note, your prescaler is off by one
2018-10-14T01:10:07 < zyp> you want 8000 - 1
2018-10-14T01:10:27 < catsoesh> oh shoot youre right, I read that in the documentation and forgot to change it, thank you for reminding me, that is probably why its 1.009 and not 1.000
2018-10-14T01:10:44 < catsoesh> also here is the main.c code that you were looking at the dissaembly for https://pastebin.com/GdSLZdV7
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2018-10-14T01:11:01 < catsoesh> ignore the wrong prescaler comment whoops
2018-10-14T01:11:18 < zyp> yeah, I don't see anything wrong in the disassembly
2018-10-14T01:12:10 < catsoesh> what annoys me is that if you hard code a value in, it works (if you use the !=)
2018-10-14T01:12:17 < zyp> I wonder if it can be a race in the hardware
2018-10-14T01:12:18 < catsoesh> what annoys me more is that it doesnt work with the < sign
2018-10-14T01:12:33 < catsoesh> oh god, how would I go about trying to solve that?
2018-10-14T01:13:18 < zyp> i.e. you're writing 0, but then you read back the previous value
2018-10-14T01:14:01 < catsoesh> oh yeah that makes sense, like it set write the 0 fast enough to the register?
2018-10-14T01:14:18 < catsoesh> like it doesnt write the 0 fast enough**
2018-10-14T01:14:23 < zyp> yeah
2018-10-14T01:14:45 < zyp> and when you're using !=, any value over 1000 will keep you in the loop just as well as any value under 1000
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2018-10-14T01:15:01 < zyp> which gives the peripheral enough time to start from 0
2018-10-14T01:17:57 < zyp> if you're insisting on counting from 0, I'd probably recommend only starting the timer after you've reset CNT
2018-10-14T01:18:30 < zyp> but you should really consider just switching to a freerunning timer, that lets you do precise intervals
2018-10-14T01:19:53 < zyp> if you're sleeping until deadline x, and then sleeping to deadline x+1000 for next iteration, you'll always get 1000 tick iterations, even if time spent not sleeping is varying
2018-10-14T01:21:29 < catsoesh> well I have tried uint32_t start = TIM6->CNT;  while (TIM6->CNT - start < delay_time);
2018-10-14T01:21:37 < catsoesh> and it works, as long as I use a !=
2018-10-14T01:22:00 < catsoesh> I was just setting it to 0 because I didn't want it to overflow and cause my delay to accidentally be a lot longer
2018-10-14T01:22:21 < zyp> you need to handle overflow sanely
2018-10-14T01:22:45 < zyp> use while((int16_t)(TIM6->CNT - start) < delay_time);
2018-10-14T01:24:38 < zyp> or alternatively: int16_t deadline = TIM6->CNT + delay_time; while(deadline - (int16_t)TIM6->CNT > 0);
2018-10-14T01:25:01 < zyp> with the latter approach, you can extend stuff
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2018-10-14T01:27:25 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/fZRnO
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2018-10-14T01:29:19 < catsoesh> Hey sorry I got disconnected
2018-10-14T01:29:28 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/fZRnO
2018-10-14T01:29:32 < catsoesh> the last thing I saw was - <zyp> with the latter approach, you can extend stuff
2018-10-14T01:30:28 < catsoesh> oh and because its signed it will handle the overflow properly, right?
2018-10-14T01:30:37 < zyp> yes
2018-10-14T01:30:46 < zyp> note that max delay is 32k ticks
2018-10-14T01:31:18 < catsoesh> and a tick is what, 1/clock speed?
2018-10-14T01:31:53 < zyp> yes
2018-10-14T01:31:58 < zyp> milliseconds in your case
2018-10-14T01:32:31 < zyp> if you need more, use one of the 32-bit timers :)
2018-10-14T01:33:00 < catsoesh> I really appreciate your help
2018-10-14T01:33:00 < catsoesh> but
2018-10-14T01:33:16 < catsoesh> I just tested it, it only works if the comparison in delay_until is a !=
2018-10-14T01:33:27 < catsoesh> the < doesnt work, it just blips by faster than I almost see
2018-10-14T01:33:33 < catsoesh> which my logic analyzer says is 25ms
2018-10-14T01:34:01 < zyp> even without setting CNT?
2018-10-14T01:35:05 < catsoesh> I just copied and pasted it in and said
2018-10-14T01:35:08 < kakimir> how is innovation catsoesh?
2018-10-14T01:35:14 < catsoesh> BIT_SET(....)
2018-10-14T01:35:15 < kakimir> new nick atleast
2018-10-14T01:35:22 < catsoesh> delay_ticks(1000)
2018-10-14T01:35:25 < catsoesh> BIT_RESET(....)
2018-10-14T01:35:27 < zyp> hmm
2018-10-14T01:35:28 < catsoesh> delay_ticks(1000)
2018-10-14T01:35:33 < catsoesh> kakimir, what do you mean?
2018-10-14T01:35:42 < zyp> actually, try (int16_t)(deadline - now())
2018-10-14T01:35:56 < zyp> looks like it gets a 32-bit subtraction which won't wrap
2018-10-14T01:35:59 < zyp> that'll fuck up
2018-10-14T01:36:16 < kakimir> catsoesh: what do I mean by what?
2018-10-14T01:36:28 < catsoesh> kakimir: You asked me "how is innovation"
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2018-10-14T01:36:35 < Steffanx> catphish != catsoesh :P
2018-10-14T01:36:47 < catsoesh> zyp: Okay so change the delay_until function?
2018-10-14T01:36:57 < Steffanx> lol kakimir
2018-10-14T01:36:59 < zyp> yes
2018-10-14T01:37:38 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/byRZn <- without and with the explicit cast here
2018-10-14T01:37:41 < catsoesh> Cracki: Yep, I know that it can go faster but thats whats on this dev board I think
2018-10-14T01:37:44 < kakimir> catsoesh: it's how I say what's up?
2018-10-14T01:37:45 < zyp> note the extra sxth in the latter
2018-10-14T01:39:16 < zyp> catsoesh, you know about the PLL, right? :)
2018-10-14T01:39:21 < catsoesh> zyp: so my function now is -- while((int16_t)(deadline - now())); return deadline;
2018-10-14T01:39:24 < catsoesh> because that works
2018-10-14T01:39:25 < zyp> I assume you just haven't bothered configuring it
2018-10-14T01:39:33 < zyp> no
2018-10-14T01:39:46 < zyp> while((int16_t)(deadline - now()) > 0);
2018-10-14T01:40:17 < zyp> yes
2018-10-14T01:41:49 < catsoesh> zyp: I saw PLL a bunch in the datasheets, but Im not even sure what it is
2018-10-14T01:41:57 < zyp> haha
2018-10-14T01:42:15 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/SJf3BhJb
2018-10-14T01:42:16 < catsoesh> also the > 0 kills it, but it works if you take it out
2018-10-14T01:42:45 < catsoesh> thats what I thought it might be but I was also like "I have no clue this could be an external input for all I know"
2018-10-14T01:42:56 < zyp> basically, whatever crystal you have on the board is not very relevant, PLL takes whatever it makes and generates the actual frequency you want
2018-10-14T01:43:15 < catsoesh> thats really cool
2018-10-14T01:43:15 < zyp> also, right now you're probably not even running from the crystal
2018-10-14T01:43:46 < zyp> most if not all stm32 starts on the HSI
2018-10-14T01:44:19 < zyp> some l-series might start on MSI or something, which another internal oscillator they have that's a bit slower than HSI
2018-10-14T01:44:37 < catsoesh> I just assumed I was because it has 8.0000Q4Z on it and a prescaler of 7999 makes it 1ms
2018-10-14T01:44:42 < catsoesh> and oh yeah I know about those two
2018-10-14T01:44:47 < catsoesh> and you can switch between them for tasks right?
2018-10-14T01:45:09 < zyp> well, I'm guessing your chip got a 16 MHz HSI, and default sysclk is HSI/2
2018-10-14T01:45:15 < zyp> so either way 8 MHz
2018-10-14T01:45:53 < zyp> to get anything else you start up the HSE, configure the PLL to consume HSE and multiply it by whatever and then switch sysclk to PLL
2018-10-14T01:46:16 < zyp> but anyway, all that is another matter
2018-10-14T01:46:26 < zyp> doesn't change the fact your timers are fucked up
2018-10-14T01:46:55 < zyp> the behavior you're observing doesn't make sense, I'm almost tempted to question your toolchain or build setup
2018-10-14T01:47:14 < zyp> but the behavior doesn't fit typical optimization bugs either
2018-10-14T01:47:21 < catsoesh> I would totally believe you if you said platformio is borked lol
2018-10-14T01:48:02 < zyp> do you have GDB running?
2018-10-14T01:48:36 < zyp> I'd try «p/x *TIM6» just to check everything there is sane
2018-10-14T01:49:14 < catsoesh> Oh I have never used GDB before, the flag is -g right?
2018-10-14T01:49:51 < zyp> …
2018-10-14T01:50:06 < zyp> -g is for getting debug symbols into the file
2018-10-14T01:50:44 < zyp> which you'd need to make much use of gdb, but is otherwise unrelated :p
2018-10-14T01:50:47 < catsoesh> Hey man I am 18 and self taught im living my best life and trying to learn as much as I can
2018-10-14T01:51:30 < catsoesh> But alright I will look up how to get GDB working and get back to you
2018-10-14T01:52:28 < zyp> not blaming you, just not in the mood to teach you how to use gdb right now :)
2018-10-14T01:53:16 < catsoesh> no worries I am sure its a pain, and I appreciate everything youre doing for me, im reading some stuff on how to use it and ill let you know what happens
2018-10-14T02:02:20 < catsoesh> I have to go for now, I will be on later tomorrow and I will post my progress, thanks for all of the help, sometimes its impossible to find things you need online and the only helpful people I know that can help me are strangers on IRC, so thank you :)
2018-10-14T02:04:09 < catphish> kakimir: i'm still here, i'm not catsoesh :)
2018-10-14T02:14:11 < invzim_> meh, cap prices
2018-10-14T02:14:15 -!- invzim_ is now known as invzim
2018-10-14T02:14:59 < invzim> stock up now before it gets worse or hope for normal prices in the next few months?
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2018-10-14T03:23:24 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is-rSK5y6EQ
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2018-10-14T03:55:56 < mawk> I can't just any any nrf52 port as a gpio output ?
2018-10-14T03:56:00 < mawk> or maybe my soldering is very bad
2018-10-14T03:56:11 < mawk> but my multimeter says otherwise
2018-10-14T03:56:35 < mawk> when I use say P0.10 I can't get any output, but P1.02 it works like a charm
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2018-10-14T04:22:53 < mawk> yeah I copied over a "blinky" example and adjusted the port
2018-10-14T04:23:12 < mawk> the datasheet says the non-working port are ADC inputs, but also digital outputs
2018-10-14T04:23:22 < mawk> maybe there's some routing parameters I need to change
2018-10-14T04:23:30 < mawk> but that whole thing is so badly documented
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2018-10-14T07:03:25 < englishman> the most probable reason of software malfunction was a Y2K-like problem. August 11, 2013, 00:38:49, was 232 of one-tenth seconds from January 1, 2000
2018-10-14T07:03:33 < englishman> buffer overflows in space
2018-10-14T07:03:59 < englishman> 232 = 2^32 of course
2018-10-14T07:07:25 < friendofafriend> I never knew you just take the ^ out.  Like 2 ^ 2 = 22 ?
2018-10-14T07:07:52 < englishman> copypaste fail, original text has the 32 in superscript
2018-10-14T07:08:50 < englishman> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Impact_(spacecraft)
2018-10-14T07:09:10 < friendofafriend> I hoped there was a patch to math I'd missed.  Disappointed, now.  :(
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2018-10-14T10:48:51 < Steffanx> No.
2018-10-14T10:55:11 -!- chipant [~chipant@163.47.148.235] has joined ##stm32
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2018-10-14T11:24:41 < Steffanx> Sup crt
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2018-10-14T11:40:55 < Steffanx> Netflix and beer?
2018-10-14T11:53:31 < Steffanx> Did you kill your friends's ps4s yet? With the magic character of death? 
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2018-10-14T12:48:17 < cjbaird> At the supermarket this evening, a MILFy type wearing tight jeans pushing a trolley ahead of me in the aisle was having her bum spanked by her daughter. It was glorious.
2018-10-14T12:52:20 < Steffanx> Did you ask her to marry you?
2018-10-14T12:54:08 < cjbaird> That would be not far off from having to pay to spank her. Hmm.
2018-10-14T12:54:46 < antto> but where is teh innovaaaation
2018-10-14T13:07:41 < Steffanx> Urban Dictionary CRT has spokeb
2018-10-14T13:07:43 < Steffanx> n
2018-10-14T13:10:06 < Thorn> the kitteh is live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsGT8xUBTIw
2018-10-14T13:10:43 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:8070:a19d:2500:b97d:d0a0:67f5:9e95] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-14T13:18:54 < Steffanx> Wtf are they doing Thorn? Just forcing the dog over those obstacles?
2018-10-14T13:19:10 < Thorn> dog training
2018-10-14T13:19:44 < Thorn> they don't have a dog so they brought their mountain lion instead lol
2018-10-14T13:24:13 < Steffanx> Weird russians.
2018-10-14T13:24:45 < Steffanx> Nice old cars in the back
2018-10-14T13:32:49 < antto> dafuq is this sh*t?
2018-10-14T13:33:00 < antto> are they selling pumas for pets there?
2018-10-14T13:37:20 < Steffanx> Selling?
2018-10-14T13:37:31 < Steffanx> It's wildlife. They just grow there.
2018-10-14T13:41:00 < Steffanx> You kill the mother and take the cub.
2018-10-14T13:42:30 < Steffanx> Cub is safu, crt
2018-10-14T13:49:41 -!- scrts [~quassel@unaffiliated/scrts] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2018-10-14T13:56:12 < Steffanx> Created Really Terribly?
2018-10-14T14:47:13 -!- tctw [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-14T14:48:03 < tctw> \o/
2018-10-14T14:49:19 < tctw> how's life?
2018-10-14T14:51:23 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a02:8071:9289:5900:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-14T14:52:09 < tctw> I am happy to hear that!
2018-10-14T14:52:20 < Steffanx> Im happy too
2018-10-14T14:52:46 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a02:8071:9289:5900:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Client Quit]
2018-10-14T14:53:06 < tctw> I am happy to hear that too, Mr. steffan
2018-10-14T14:53:14 < Steffanx> Hello welcome tctw 
2018-10-14T14:54:07 < tctw> HELLO
2018-10-14T14:54:15 < tctw> please appreciate my existence
2018-10-14T14:54:43 < Steffanx> Thank you, welcome!
2018-10-14T14:55:36 -!- Laurenceb124 [~laurence@host86-140-184-196.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-14T14:56:30 < tctw> hello Mr. Laurenceb124 
2018-10-14T14:56:36 < tctw> how are you feeling on this very day?
2018-10-14T14:56:51 < tctw> we'd appreciate it if you could share your emotions with us
2018-10-14T14:57:22 < Steffanx> we?
2018-10-14T14:58:04 < tctw> we.
2018-10-14T14:58:05 < tctw> be nice.
2018-10-14T14:58:27 < Laurenceb124> is dat some Tectu?
2018-10-14T14:58:43 < Laurenceb124> I'm searching for a ladyboy lover atm
2018-10-14T15:00:29 < tctw> it's the most Tectu ever
2018-10-14T15:00:34 < tctw> okay, check out craigslist
2018-10-14T15:02:12 < Laurenceb124> kek
2018-10-14T15:02:19 < Laurenceb124> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45809169
2018-10-14T15:02:31 < Laurenceb124> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/DD49/production/_103794665_jessica1.jpg   the memes
2018-10-14T15:03:47 < Steffanx> Im tempted to take a screenshot of a certain video again
2018-10-14T15:04:09 < tctw> what video?
2018-10-14T15:04:19 < Steffanx> Karman line or something.
2018-10-14T15:04:28 < tctw> wut?
2018-10-14T15:04:35 < Steffanx> With blaxter in it
2018-10-14T15:05:52 < tctw> oooh
2018-10-14T15:05:53 < tctw> yes
2018-10-14T15:05:54 < tctw> do that.
2018-10-14T15:05:56 < tctw> please.
2018-10-14T15:11:48 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-14T15:17:51 < Steffanx> nah
2018-10-14T15:18:00 < Steffanx> i could resist the temptation
2018-10-14T15:18:21 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2018-10-14T15:23:09 < tctw> terry would be terryfied
2018-10-14T15:23:40 < Steffanx> Terry is dead remember?
2018-10-14T15:33:28 < tctw> lies!
2018-10-14T15:38:30 < invzim> 1uf for stuff like LDO's, 0603 or 0805?  Should not be exposed to  >~5V
2018-10-14T15:41:54 -!- tairaeza [~tairaeza@soyuz.whatbox.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2018-10-14T15:43:58 < Steffanx> No 0402
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2018-10-14T15:54:25 < invzim> 0603 then :)  Trying to find the balance between home-assembly, ghetto assembly and normal assembly
2018-10-14T16:02:36 < dongs> sup pros
2018-10-14T16:03:43 < englishman> the ballad of Laurenceb124 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENnAa7rqtBM
2018-10-14T16:06:04 < tctw> englishman o/
2018-10-14T16:06:21 < englishman> sup
2018-10-14T16:07:48 < Steffanx> Lol englishman 
2018-10-14T16:08:35 < BrainDamage> shhh, soon he'll acquire magic powers and make you pay
2018-10-14T16:11:10 < dongs> lole
2018-10-14T16:11:58 < dongs> lookin for a wide vin -> 12V dc/dc thats common and china'd any sugestions
2018-10-14T16:12:06 < dongs> around 3A or so. probly gonna just pick some random richtek
2018-10-14T16:12:11 < dongs> like what zyp used
2018-10-14T16:12:40 < englishman> at the same time, i need a ~1a 68uh inductor in 10k quantity what chink brands do i look at for that
2018-10-14T16:12:46 < dongs> sunlord
2018-10-14T16:12:52 < englishman> ah right
2018-10-14T16:14:48 < dongs> looks like the usual SWPA series
2018-10-14T16:14:52 < dongs> SWPA6040S680MT
2018-10-14T16:15:06 < dongs> 0.08$ @ 100+
2018-10-14T16:16:51 < englishman> perfect
2018-10-14T16:17:01 < englishman> i think i have half a reel of them already
2018-10-14T16:17:17 < englishman> at least a little baggie
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2018-10-14T16:42:30 < aandrew> do you usually order your inductors by the barrel?
2018-10-14T16:42:34 < aandrew> er reel
2018-10-14T16:42:35 < aandrew> wtf
2018-10-14T16:42:37 < aandrew> I read barrel
2018-10-14T16:43:06 < dongs> thats cuz youre a fucking jew
2018-10-14T16:43:20 < aandrew> lol
2018-10-14T16:43:30 < aandrew> nah, just visiting
2018-10-14T16:44:42 < aandrew> I have to say though I've been enjoying the food so far
2018-10-14T16:44:55 < aandrew> nothing too esoteric, but lots of hummus and eggplant
2018-10-14T16:45:29 < aandrew> didn't get into the organ meats for instance
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2018-10-14T17:16:12 < mawk> I feel terrible
2018-10-14T17:16:16 < mawk> I lowered my methadone dose by 30%
2018-10-14T17:16:39 < mawk> only masoschists can quit I'm sure
2018-10-14T17:18:25 < mawk> being a bit too curious in my teens
2018-10-14T17:18:42 < mawk> I was fascined by the mind and hallucinogenics
2018-10-14T17:18:48 < mawk> everything went pretty fine, until I got to opiates
2018-10-14T17:20:51 < mawk> and then no amount of self-control or willpower can do anything against the very non-psychological down-regulation of µ-opiate receptors in your brain
2018-10-14T17:21:02 < mawk> it's just biological, you get addicted
2018-10-14T17:21:48 < BrainDamage> here questionaries about drug usage don't ask if you "had heavy drugs recently" rather "heavy drugs ever in your life"
2018-10-14T17:21:56 < aandrew> yeah I have heard that opiates are nothing to fuck with
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2018-10-14T17:22:25 < mawk> in the same way a lab rat will push a pedal more than 5000 times before dying of dehydration to get a single dose of some new synthetic chem on the market
2018-10-14T17:22:59 < mawk> one could argue that you never become the same again BrainDamage 
2018-10-14T17:23:03 < mawk> no matter how abstinent you stay
2018-10-14T17:23:15 < mawk> but that's more true with alcohol than other stuff
2018-10-14T17:24:28 < dongs> aandrew: did jews stamp your passport
2018-10-14T17:24:40 < dongs> i heard they dont do that to hide the fact that yo uvisited
2018-10-14T17:24:47 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-14T17:24:50 < mawk> that's comprehensible
2018-10-14T17:24:58 < mawk> you wouldn't be safe in arab banana republics
2018-10-14T17:25:13 < mawk> the custom guy sees the stamp, you disappear
2018-10-14T17:26:22 < Steffanx> Oh no, another stm32 druggie? :P
2018-10-14T17:26:42 < Steffanx> Do you vape as well?
2018-10-14T17:26:49 < mawk> e-cigarette ? yes
2018-10-14T17:26:56 < mawk> I quit tobacco when I started methadone
2018-10-14T17:26:59 < dongs> gross
2018-10-14T17:27:17 < aandrew> dongs: no, they gave me a little white card that says I'm NOT allowed to work and told me to keep it with my passport
2018-10-14T17:28:00 < mawk> but apart from nicotine I'm pretty abstinent Steffanx 
2018-10-14T17:28:07 < mawk> I've always hated alcohol and weed
2018-10-14T17:29:57 < aandrew> dongs: hong kong doesn't stamp your passport either
2018-10-14T17:30:07 < aandrew> they give you a TINY little white piece of paper to keep and give back when you leave
2018-10-14T17:30:14 < dongs> eh... they dont? i forgot.
2018-10-14T17:30:16 < dongs> i went there a couple times
2018-10-14T17:30:49 < aandrew> might be different with jap citizenship
2018-10-14T17:30:54 < aandrew> canada though they don't
2018-10-14T17:31:03 < aandrew> I figured it had something to do with being part of the commonwealth
2018-10-14T17:31:14 < dongs> thats a country thing not incoming visitor thing, i think
2018-10-14T17:31:44 < dongs> ya youre right
2018-10-14T17:31:46 < dongs> i see china stamps
2018-10-14T17:31:48 < dongs> but not hk
2018-10-14T17:32:29 < dongs> god damn retarded japs stamped 2 pages togeher with my departure pass
2018-10-14T17:32:38 < dongs> i was wondering why the idiots at airport started a new page
2018-10-14T17:32:55 < dongs> im already out of pages in my passport and theyre not helping it 
2018-10-14T17:33:47 < mawk> who's the other one Steffanx ?
2018-10-14T17:34:39 < dongs> are you looking for stonerpals
2018-10-14T17:35:00 < aandrew> hah
2018-10-14T17:35:06 < mawk> smackpals
2018-10-14T17:35:07 < mawk> no
2018-10-14T17:35:09 < aandrew> every time I've got a stamp they open to a random page and stamp
2018-10-14T17:35:13 < aandrew> there's no order to it at all
2018-10-14T17:35:25 < dongs> they are supposed to fill it top to bottom obviously
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2018-10-14T17:36:13 < mawk> in vietnam the customs guy charges you $30 or something for writing your name on the stamp
2018-10-14T17:36:18 < mawk> cambodia too
2018-10-14T17:36:29 < dongs> filthy places with filthy measures
2018-10-14T17:36:40 < dongs> there's like zero reason to go to any of those palces other than to sexpat
2018-10-14T17:36:44 < mawk> lol
2018-10-14T17:37:00 < dongs> its called shitty east asia for a reason
2018-10-14T17:38:24 < mawk> in France they invested in very expensive automated passport checkers with fingerprint readers
2018-10-14T17:38:34 < mawk> that can be bypassed by a fake fingerprint made out of glue
2018-10-14T17:38:40 < dongs> nice
2018-10-14T17:38:51 < BrainDamage> most fingerprint readers can be bypassed
2018-10-14T17:39:13 < Steffanx> mythbusters has shown it? 
2018-10-14T17:39:39 < mawk> no, some french tv show about wasting public money
2018-10-14T17:39:40 < BrainDamage> no idea, but I've seen plenty of demonstrations for ~hackers~
2018-10-14T17:40:08 < BrainDamage> some of which I've tested myself out of curiosity because I felt like they were bulshitting me how simple they were
2018-10-14T17:40:25 < mawk> these expensive checkers were sold as "unhackable" to the state
2018-10-14T17:40:42 < mawk> reminds me of the oil-sniffing planes scam on the french government
2018-10-14T17:40:43 < bitmask> are credit card skimmers still a problem?
2018-10-14T17:40:47 < mawk> who spent billions to get fake planes
2018-10-14T17:40:54 < mawk> I've heard bitmask yeah
2018-10-14T17:41:00 < mawk> but it tends to die out
2018-10-14T17:41:01 < bitmask> sucks
2018-10-14T17:41:03 < BrainDamage> bitmask: skimmers are mostly an us problem
2018-10-14T17:41:14 < BrainDamage> remember: we adopted chip and pin ~15 years ago
2018-10-14T17:41:16 < bitmask> really? I thought europe was pretty bad
2018-10-14T17:41:20 < mawk> card numbers are more and more obtained via fake ecommerce sites
2018-10-14T17:41:35 < bitmask> oh I guess thats true, wasnt even thinking about that
2018-10-14T17:41:41 < Steffanx> BrainDamage, in this country we still used the magnetic stuff a lot.
2018-10-14T17:41:50 < Steffanx> Romanian skimmers loved that
2018-10-14T17:41:55 < Steffanx> icnl a camera to read the pin
2018-10-14T17:41:56 < dongs> my ATM card got updated cuz it expired and now it has a chip too
2018-10-14T17:42:07 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: there's inversion of responsibility wrt magstripe
2018-10-14T17:42:22 < bitmask> chips are finally getting popular in the us now
2018-10-14T17:42:28 < BrainDamage> if you get robbed and the business uses magstripe, it's the business that refunds you rather htan your bank
2018-10-14T17:42:35 < bitmask> my debit and credit have a chip
2018-10-14T17:42:46 < BrainDamage> us has *chip and signature*
2018-10-14T17:42:49 < BrainDamage> just is just insane
2018-10-14T17:42:57 < BrainDamage> which*
2018-10-14T17:43:12 < Steffanx> haha yes, that signature joke.
2018-10-14T17:43:25 < antto> we got wireless moneyz cards here
2018-10-14T17:43:26 < bitmask> chip still has to be bettery than strip
2018-10-14T17:43:32 < antto> contactless sh*t
2018-10-14T17:43:45 < BrainDamage> chip is better than strip, but the pin is there to authenticate the chip user
2018-10-14T17:44:19 < mawk> yes antto 
2018-10-14T17:44:20 < mawk> here too
2018-10-14T17:44:23 < mawk> but for less than 35€
2018-10-14T17:44:24 < BrainDamage> here the contactless shit has this idiotic no pin thing
2018-10-14T17:44:28 < Steffanx> Yes, what mawk  said
2018-10-14T17:44:29 < bitmask> well thats what you get for using a credit card instead of a debit :) dont spend money you dont have :P
2018-10-14T17:44:49 < BrainDamage> I use only a debit card, and even then, I prefer cash
2018-10-14T17:44:52 < mawk> sometimes you want to not spent the money you have
2018-10-14T17:44:59 < dongs> wehn i last visited my bank i told them to turn off the fucking pin on my card
2018-10-14T17:45:01 < antto> i got debit only, no credit sh*t
2018-10-14T17:45:27 < dongs> people would hand me the terminal and i just had to press enter
2018-10-14T17:48:16 < mawk> 4
2018-10-14T17:49:21 < Steffanx> 3
2018-10-14T17:49:32 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I like chip and signature because that shifts responsibility on the PoS if my card gets stolen. With pin they would see it over my shoulder and then steal the card and it would be "my fault" for letting someone learn the pin. Also, entering pin at a PoS exposes it to potential criminals who can later use it with ATM. When I just sign the receipt even if my card is stolen, they're not
2018-10-14T17:49:38 < PaulFertser> getting anything.
2018-10-14T17:50:07 < bitmask> wow, posted my ikea lack table feet on thingiverse 8 hours ago and I gots a hundred downloads
2018-10-14T17:50:09 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3154181
2018-10-14T17:51:47 < mawk> 3.4
2018-10-14T17:52:07 < bitmask> 3.14
2018-10-14T17:53:12 < antto> 0.707107
2018-10-14T17:53:17 < mawk> my cat is into mathematics it seems
2018-10-14T17:53:29 < mawk> she stepped on the numpad
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2018-10-14T17:59:06 < catphish> bitmask: i'm pretty sure those download numbers are nonsense, or bots are hammering thingiverse
2018-10-14T17:59:17 < dongs> what should be my switcher diode reverse voltage rating be
2018-10-14T17:59:19 < dongs> is it 2x VIN?
2018-10-14T17:59:24 < dongs> or 2x vout
2018-10-14T17:59:31 < catphish> something i posted yesterday has "73 views, 75 downloads!
2018-10-14T17:59:48 < dongs> don't underestimate makerfags
2018-10-14T18:00:32 < bitmask> yea I guess you're right :P 115 views/116 downloads
2018-10-14T18:00:57 < dongs> The rated voltage of the diode should be one and a half times higher than the output voltage for step-up DC/DC converters and one and a half times higher than the input voltage for step-down DC/DC converters.
2018-10-14T18:01:18 < dongs> i see why weeb-bench wants to put a 100V shit there then
2018-10-14T18:01:18 < dongs> hmm
2018-10-14T18:01:24 < dongs> gay
2018-10-14T18:01:34 < mawk> my silkscreen is backwards but also the pinout on the seller's ali page is wrong
2018-10-14T18:01:39 < mawk> so my silkscreen is doubly backwards
2018-10-14T18:01:48 < mawk> maybe they are so afraid of bad grades I can ask them to pay for my pcb
2018-10-14T18:01:53 < mawk> on amazon it'd work at leastr
2018-10-14T18:05:10 < aandrew> well pin is just there for 2FA
2018-10-14T18:05:22 < aandrew> chip or strip or card is 1FA - something you have
2018-10-14T18:05:26 < aandrew> PIN is 2FA - something you know
2018-10-14T18:05:38 < aandrew> biometric (fingerprint, retina, etc) is 3FA - something you are
2018-10-14T18:05:54 < mawk> but 3 isn't a version number
2018-10-14T18:05:56 < bitmask> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPQbKTJPsU4
2018-10-14T18:06:05 < dongs> enroll your penis as a fingerprint
2018-10-14T18:06:05 < mawk> biometric is still 2FA
2018-10-14T18:06:09 < mawk> username/password + biometry
2018-10-14T18:06:51 < aandrew> sure if that's all you're using
2018-10-14T18:08:33 < dongs> aandrew should rename to aaJEW
2018-10-14T18:08:36 < dongs> sounds almost same to
2018-10-14T18:10:51 < Steffanx> lol.
2018-10-14T18:12:20 < Laurenceb124> sup trollz
2018-10-14T18:12:41 < Steffanx> Reflecting Laurenceb124?
2018-10-14T18:12:50 < mawk> are you the mystery ##stm32 druggie Laurenceb124 ?
2018-10-14T18:12:58  * Laurenceb124 has to order some silicone resin
2018-10-14T18:13:02 < Steffanx> no that's you mawk and bitmask
2018-10-14T18:13:10 < Laurenceb124> through health and safety system
2018-10-14T18:13:14 < mawk> ah
2018-10-14T18:13:19 < Laurenceb124> this is going to make me want to kill myself
2018-10-14T18:13:42 < bitmask> :)
2018-10-14T18:13:42 < Steffanx> Do you expect to be missed Laurenceb124 ?
2018-10-14T18:13:45 < bitmask> mmmm drugs
2018-10-14T18:13:52 < mawk> what are you on bitmask 
2018-10-14T18:14:01 < mawk> stims, downers, psychs
2018-10-14T18:14:18 < Laurenceb124> a risk assessment to order some resin...
2018-10-14T18:14:20 < Laurenceb124> whyyy
2018-10-14T18:14:54 < bitmask> ive limited myself to methadone for about a year.  I slipped just recently and drank though
2018-10-14T18:15:27 < mawk> you take methadone for alcohol ?
2018-10-14T18:15:33 < Steffanx> bad boy, bitmask. Bad boy.
2018-10-14T18:15:34 < mawk> first time I hear about that
2018-10-14T18:15:41 < bitmask> no, heroin
2018-10-14T18:15:44 < mawk> ah
2018-10-14T18:15:56 < bitmask> but alcohol is worse than heroin for me, I'm a horrible drinker
2018-10-14T18:16:05 < mawk> I recently went from 80mg to 55mg in one step
2018-10-14T18:16:10 < bitmask> methadone?
2018-10-14T18:16:13 < mawk> yes
2018-10-14T18:16:15 < mawk> and I'm still very insomniac
2018-10-14T18:16:19 < bitmask> thats a big step
2018-10-14T18:16:29 < mawk> well it was motivated by some health issue
2018-10-14T18:16:33 < Steffanx> fyi, this channel is publicly logged mawk
2018-10-14T18:16:39 < Laurenceb124> bitmask is Scottish?
2018-10-14T18:16:41 < mawk> yeah Steffanx 
2018-10-14T18:16:54 < bitmask> I'm trying not to get on a high dose, I only take 27mg
2018-10-14T18:16:56 < mawk> my dose was fractionned, 60mg at lunch and 20mg at night; and I stopped the night one
2018-10-14T18:17:08 < mawk> because of a fast metabolism
2018-10-14T18:17:21 < bitmask> I wish mine was split
2018-10-14T18:17:26 < dongs> more like pulicly donged
2018-10-14T18:17:29 < mawk> lol
2018-10-14T18:17:36 < dongs> er +b
2018-10-14T18:17:36 < mawk> I have other nicknames Steffanx 
2018-10-14T18:17:45 < bitmask> scottish?
2018-10-14T18:17:46 < dongs> mawk is some lunix tool i think
2018-10-14T18:17:48 < dongs> probly not searchable
2018-10-14T18:17:50 < mawk> yes
2018-10-14T18:17:53 < mawk> I always do that
2018-10-14T18:17:54 < Steffanx> often 1+1 is 2, mawk
2018-10-14T18:17:56 < bitmask> oh, trainspotting?
2018-10-14T18:18:01 < Laurenceb124> bitmask: sounds like Scottish activities
2018-10-14T18:18:07 < Steffanx> alhtough a boss is not allowed to google iirc. at least not in dutchland
2018-10-14T18:18:10 < Laurenceb124> Scotland has NHS drugs
2018-10-14T18:18:20 < mawk> either artists, or linux utils, or famous hackers, etc
2018-10-14T18:18:27 < mawk> mine are too Laurenceb124 
2018-10-14T18:18:35 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip68-3-245-224.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-14T18:18:39 < mawk> methadone, heroin, morphine, DHC, buprenorphine, etc
2018-10-14T18:18:42 < mawk> all state distributed
2018-10-14T18:18:51 < Laurenceb124> Scotland confirmed
2018-10-14T18:18:57 < mawk> no, France
2018-10-14T18:19:00 < mawk> I don't wear kilts
2018-10-14T18:19:01 < bitmask> I'm in the US and I get methadone for free (or could get bupe) but not the other stuff
2018-10-14T18:19:15 < Steffanx> drugs for free. Such weird world.
2018-10-14T18:19:19 < mawk> Steffanx: the only occurrences of my name on google was were I was young and naive and using my full name as my nickname
2018-10-14T18:19:35 < mawk> there is some minecraft roleplay, some assistance on computing/programming forums
2018-10-14T18:19:51 < mawk> there is one occurrence I'm trying to take down, where I'm asking on twitter about a designer drug shop when they will restock
2018-10-14T18:20:00 < dongs> haha
2018-10-14T18:20:01 < Steffanx> lolol
2018-10-14T18:20:38 < Laurenceb124> my neighbour makes MDMA
2018-10-14T18:20:46 < mawk> it should smell very funny
2018-10-14T18:20:49 < dongs> Laurenceb124: Hi! It looks like you're engaging in activity not directly related to STM32 or electronics. May I suggest you tweet about it instead? Or perhaps make a stumble.upon? Or even better, just /msg ohsix directly? Thank you!
2018-10-14T18:20:56 < Steffanx> Laurenceb124 is UK maffia confirmed.
2018-10-14T18:20:57 < Laurenceb124> he is the least covert drug maker ever
2018-10-14T18:21:00 < Steffanx> or mob, or whatever you call it
2018-10-14T18:21:14 < Laurenceb124> stands on his balcony discussing deals on his phone
2018-10-14T18:21:21 < bitmask> I used to grow mushrooms
2018-10-14T18:21:28 < bitmask> that was fun
2018-10-14T18:21:38 < Laurenceb124> gets deliveries of stuff dropped off with me when he is out
2018-10-14T18:21:44 < Steffanx> Now you get high on pla and petg fumes.
2018-10-14T18:21:46 < dongs> i need to get into growing mushrooms. i wanna grow some proper boletus stuff instead of these shitty faggot jap shrooms
2018-10-14T18:21:53 < Laurenceb124>  "oh its for my amateur chemistry experiments"
2018-10-14T18:21:56 < bitmask> yup
2018-10-14T18:22:11 < bitmask> mushrooms are cool to watch grow
2018-10-14T18:22:14 < mawk> at around 13 I wanted to engage in organic chemistry to make drugs
2018-10-14T18:22:17 < Steffanx> damnit, all those ##stm32 druggies.
2018-10-14T18:22:17 < bitmask> and really easy
2018-10-14T18:22:20 < mawk> so I began reading books and all
2018-10-14T18:23:03 < mawk> I was about to study chemistry at a grande école when I discovered that maths was way better
2018-10-14T18:23:56 < bitmask> chem is something I know very little about, I wasnt interested in it when I was younger but I'm thinking about reading up a bit
2018-10-14T18:26:53 < kow__> did someone say drugs
2018-10-14T18:26:54 < dongs> how to get stoned .. on irc
2018-10-14T18:26:55 < mawk> Steffanx: they give you the drugs only if you're a confirmed drug addict that wants to quit
2018-10-14T18:27:11 < mawk> they do regular piss tests for me at first to check if I'm taking opiates, then to check I'm only taking methadone
2018-10-14T18:27:16 < bitmask> yea they drug test you randomly
2018-10-14T18:27:24 < mawk> and it's pretty tightly controlled; at first you have to go there everyday to get your syrup dose
2018-10-14T18:27:40 < bitmask> how many takehomes do you have?
2018-10-14T18:27:45 < mawk> then they give you a prescription on watermarked secure paper, and the pharmacies have to keep it in a locked safe that is regularly controlled by state authorities
2018-10-14T18:27:53 < Steffanx> hah ok, mawk. That sounds reasonable. As long as you REALLY want to quit.
2018-10-14T18:27:53 < antto> o_O
2018-10-14T18:27:58 < mawk> for 2 months, currently bitmask 
2018-10-14T18:27:58 < BrainDamage> regulated piss
2018-10-14T18:28:01 < bitmask> oh wow
2018-10-14T18:28:02 < bitmask> nice
2018-10-14T18:28:06 < mawk> but it's illegal
2018-10-14T18:28:10 < mawk> on the box it says 1 months max
2018-10-14T18:28:16 < mawk> so my doc doubled all the doses to make it 2 months
2018-10-14T18:28:39 < bitmask> I still have to go 4 days a week
2018-10-14T18:29:20 < Steffanx> Have something to talk about in the ##stm32 talk group, antto ?
2018-10-14T18:29:26 < mawk> yeah here they start giving prescriptions after a year or something
2018-10-14T18:29:37 < mawk> once they trust you
2018-10-14T18:29:45 < mawk> and you never show up having "lost" your doses or something
2018-10-14T18:30:04 < mawk> for me it's quite the contrary, now I have a big pile of around 3 grams of excedentary methadone
2018-10-14T18:30:09 < antto> Steffanx, no, absolutely not
2018-10-14T18:30:10 < mawk> on retail I could sell this a few k€
2018-10-14T18:30:17 < Steffanx> but im listening antto.
2018-10-14T18:30:23  * antto farts
2018-10-14T18:30:41 < kow__> https://i.imgur.com/aFYtsbX.jpg
2018-10-14T18:30:45 < Steffanx> need clean underwear?
2018-10-14T18:30:54 < bitmask> I've been there about a year and still have a long ways to go.  every few months you get to another level, I'm still earning days, then it switches to weeks then months
2018-10-14T18:31:00 < Steffanx> whats that mr kow__ ?
2018-10-14T18:31:01 < antto> my fart is crystal clear, Steffanx
2018-10-14T18:31:16 < kow__> herbal medicines
2018-10-14T18:31:18 < bitmask> ganja
2018-10-14T18:31:20 < Steffanx> smells like roses?, antto ?
2018-10-14T18:31:36 < bitmask> what is that, like 2 pounds?
2018-10-14T18:31:48 < kow__> 1
2018-10-14T18:32:08 < bitmask> really? is it home grown?
2018-10-14T18:32:13 < Steffanx> "herbal medicines" is that another way to say: "Im a fucking stoner" ?
2018-10-14T18:32:14 < kow__> a mexican hasn't sat on it so it's fluffy
2018-10-14T18:32:21 < mawk> I was about to convert my 3g to pounds
2018-10-14T18:32:24 < mawk> but you're not talking about this
2018-10-14T18:32:27 < bitmask> need more light to make it denser
2018-10-14T18:32:29 < mawk> (0.00661387 pounds)
2018-10-14T18:32:37 < antto> Steffanx, of course not
2018-10-14T18:32:58 < kow__> yeah it's an outdoor grow
2018-10-14T18:33:41 < Steffanx> antto: ok, thank you for the information
2018-10-14T18:34:36 < antto> call me if you need samples
2018-10-14T18:35:14 < Steffanx> have a number?
2018-10-14T18:35:24 < dongs> lol stoners
2018-10-14T18:37:32 < mawk> but people are tolerant Cracki 
2018-10-14T18:37:38 < mawk> I'm sure it will absolutely not harm my e-reputation
2018-10-14T18:37:56 < mawk> ah
2018-10-14T18:38:15 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-14T18:38:34 < mawk> well I can confirm that police is investigating from pictures of weed found on the web
2018-10-14T18:38:45 < mawk> as a pic hosting service I've received requisitions from police to identify a user that sent pictures of his weed
2018-10-14T18:39:01 < bitmask> I hope you trashed the request
2018-10-14T18:39:06 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-14T18:39:15 < mawk> I said "the guy was using tor, I can't give you any useful info"
2018-10-14T18:39:45 < mawk> I could've messed with them and told them that he was using the 127.153.223.84 ip
2018-10-14T18:43:26 < kow__> the police aren't investigating random weed photos
2018-10-14T18:43:43 < kow__> maybe they came across the photos as part of another investigation
2018-10-14T18:43:51 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-14T18:43:56 < bitmask> ugh, car batteries take forever to charge
2018-10-14T18:44:13 < mawk> yeah they always find the photo somewhere kow__ 
2018-10-14T18:44:15 < bitmask> It also doesn't help that I'm only charging it at 4A :P
2018-10-14T18:44:29 < mawk> eg on dedicated forums and stuff
2018-10-14T18:44:40 < mawk> but still they do it even if you're not selling or something
2018-10-14T18:46:12 < kow__> grow permits are free here, anyone growing illegally is an idiot
2018-10-14T18:50:53 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-14T18:52:05 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-14T18:52:09 < mawk> I guess your country is better
2018-10-14T18:52:16 < mawk> my country has the most repressive drug policy of europe
2018-10-14T18:52:28 < mawk> (and the highest proportion of weed user, ironically)
2018-10-14T19:03:42 < kow__> https://cdn.4archive.org/img/DpxLsdh.jpg
2018-10-14T19:05:12 < dongs> uh
2018-10-14T19:05:14 < dongs> b&
2018-10-14T19:08:02 -!- boB_K7IQ [boB_K7IQ@c-73-193-6-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2018-10-14T19:16:51 < dongs> https://www.torexsemi.com/file/en/technical-support/tips/tips_How_to_select_components_for_DCDC.pdf nice reading
2018-10-14T19:24:18 < mawk> torsexemi
2018-10-14T19:33:32 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-14T19:35:03 -!- Laurenceb124 [~laurence@host86-140-184-196.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2018-10-14T19:35:17 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ClRyqO9F36Jy1rxgKmdomO9yJCLUUHIu/view?usp=sharing
2018-10-14T19:37:22 < kakimir> I literally took the whole sled appart because I was unable to remove engine back mounting
2018-10-14T19:52:48 < kakimir> it needs special yamaha key
2018-10-14T19:59:47 -!- tctm [~Tectu@adsl-130-227.dsl.init7.net] has joined ##stm32
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2018-10-14T20:04:09 -!- [1]MrMobius is now known as MrMobius
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2018-10-14T20:28:16 < Steffanx> tctm is new.
2018-10-14T20:34:53 < mawk> that nrf52 core is quite nice actually
2018-10-14T20:35:18 < mawk> ability to high drive GPIOs, being able to map any peripheral to any pin, being able to adjuste logic high voltage, etc
2018-10-14T20:35:33 < mawk> stm32 should make a board like that
2018-10-14T20:35:39 < mawk> cortex m4f or something
2018-10-14T20:36:08 < Thorn> why is this in my recommended videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n18AwdFfOFo
2018-10-14T20:41:44 < tctm> Steffanx, very mobile
2018-10-14T20:45:44 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
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2018-10-14T21:32:01 < Steffanx> What stm32 question do you have crt ?
2018-10-14T21:35:51 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:8070:a19d:2500:594c:d1cd:6cad:943] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2018-10-14T21:40:27 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:8070:a19d:2500:ac96:a811:2bcc:618] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-14T21:40:59 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
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2018-10-14T21:47:43 < Steffanx> nah no hope for you
2018-10-14T21:47:52 -!- Hamilton [~Hamilton@unaffiliated/hamilton] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-14T22:03:14 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a02:8071:9289:5900:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2018-10-14T22:04:14 < Steffanx> maybe he does paid support.
2018-10-14T22:07:03 < Steffanx> Good morning sir mr crt
2018-10-14T22:20:07 < mawk> what's a kumpel
2018-10-14T22:20:13 < mawk> sounds like an alsacian dish
2018-10-14T22:20:39 < antto> sounds like an obscure insult
2018-10-14T22:20:57 < Steffanx> Try google translate.
2018-10-14T22:21:16 < Steffanx> It's what every aussie says, but in german.
2018-10-14T22:21:43 < Steffanx> Why the negativity antto? Butt hurt?
2018-10-14T22:22:33 < antto> what negativity?!
2018-10-14T22:22:59 < Steffanx> idk
2018-10-14T22:23:36 < antto> pls rotate your polarized sunglasses 90°
2018-10-14T22:26:06 < Steffanx> lol antto.
2018-10-14T22:31:50 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip68-3-245-224.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-14T22:56:02 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: so what's wrong with chip and signature? My bank allows me to choose between signature and pin and I think signature is more secure for me.
2018-10-14T22:56:16 < kakimir> wtf..
2018-10-14T22:57:05 < kakimir> something is sucking all processing power of my computer
2018-10-14T22:58:00 < kakimir> it's running at full clocks with 30-50% load at idle
2018-10-14T22:58:25 < kakimir> sometimes 90%
2018-10-14T22:58:56 < PaulFertser> And I prefer to call it EMV because it is not some random "chip" but a whole complex system involving smartcards.
2018-10-14T23:02:24 < antto> kakimir windewz?
2018-10-14T23:03:49 < Steffanx> more secure for you because move the responsibility to the bank PaulFertser ?
2018-10-14T23:05:27 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: to the sellers who are supposed to verify signatures. If my card gets stolen they won't know my pin (because I'm using it only for ATMs and take care to not expose it) and so they won't be able to use an ATM, and if they buy something it's up to the seller to verify the signature, I'll claim it's not mine and the shop will have to compensate me.
2018-10-14T23:11:16 < karlp> yeah, chip and pin was a fantastic move by the ccard companies to shift responsibility back onto "anyone but them"
2018-10-14T23:11:51 < Steffanx> but how does a seller check the signature?
2018-10-14T23:12:10 < Steffanx> to be honest i've never ever had to work with a CC + signature :P
2018-10-14T23:12:13 < kakimir> antto: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m7jasmyvXHuSzRdRtBvWoCAavYFR5rE5/view?usp=sharing idle
2018-10-14T23:12:32 < Steffanx> why dont you windows in english kakimir ?
2018-10-14T23:12:54 < kakimir> to say this is 0.9GHz processor with 2.1GHz turbo
2018-10-14T23:13:17 < Steffanx> let me check what mny m3 does idle.
2018-10-14T23:13:23 < kakimir> something is burning those cores
2018-10-14T23:13:39  * antto hits kakimir with CORTANA.EXE and WUAUSERV.EXE
2018-10-14T23:13:46 < kakimir> and there is no processor usage in process tab
2018-10-14T23:14:11 < kakimir> some proces taking 2% and that's it
2018-10-14T23:14:37  * antto tosses around FilthyBitcoinDigger.dll
2018-10-14T23:14:40 < Hamilton> kakimir, Windows Auto update maybe?
2018-10-14T23:15:19 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2018-10-14T23:15:38 < Steffanx> reinstall windows, solves all problems
2018-10-14T23:15:39 < kakimir> I would see IO
2018-10-14T23:15:47 < kakimir> install gentoo
2018-10-14T23:15:55 < kakimir> I think it's time
2018-10-14T23:16:14 < Steffanx> does the resource manager tell you more?
2018-10-14T23:16:17 < kakimir> no
2018-10-14T23:16:19 < Steffanx> *monitor
2018-10-14T23:16:37 < antto> on the win7 computer, i always have a Resource Monitor opened
2018-10-14T23:16:48 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: the seller is supposed to check the signature as put on the receipt against what's written on the back side of the card of course.
2018-10-14T23:16:52 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-14T23:17:08 < antto> cuz wuauserv.exe randomly starts itself, injects into another service, and eats one CPU core away
2018-10-14T23:17:11 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: if it doesn't too bad, up to them.
2018-10-14T23:17:45 < Steffanx> oh i forgot its even on the back. So there isnt really any security at all.
2018-10-14T23:17:50 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: so it seems to me EMV + sig is highly superior to EMV + pin.
2018-10-14T23:18:22 < PaulFertser> It's hard to fake a signature, that's the point.
2018-10-14T23:18:43 < antto> akchually..
2018-10-14T23:18:46 < antto> ;P~
2018-10-14T23:18:55 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: am I missing something? Should I change to EMV + pin?
2018-10-14T23:19:18 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lPHZkJTrGfq_ApaL-kQMcX2fK9CUqIiv/view?usp=sharing
2018-10-14T23:19:22 < kakimir> process table
2018-10-14T23:19:24 < PaulFertser> I think the experts will be able to tell a real signature from fake.
2018-10-14T23:19:43 < PaulFertser> kakimir: you're supposed to use "performance monitor" integrated since vista or somesuch.
2018-10-14T23:19:46 < Steffanx> Experts sure, but then a seller gets you the product and you're long gone.
2018-10-14T23:20:07 < antto> kakimir teh text is toooooo finish
2018-10-14T23:20:20 < antto> y u do dis
2018-10-14T23:20:40 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: yes, but if my card was stolen I'll send an inquiry to the bank, they'll ask the seller for the receipt, the experts will tell it's fake, the seller would have to pay, not me.
2018-10-14T23:20:53 < antto> "windewz compatiburu telemeturu" <- muhahaha
2018-10-14T23:21:02 < antto> totally not spying on you
2018-10-14T23:21:17 < catphish> it's weird how people call smartcards "EMV"
2018-10-14T23:21:46 < PaulFertser> catphish: why? If it's specific payment technology, not just any smartcard?
2018-10-14T23:21:55 < zyp> why?
2018-10-14T23:21:58 < zyp> «EMV is a payment method based upon a technical standard for smart payment cards and for payment terminals and automated teller machines that can accept them.»
2018-10-14T23:23:15 < Steffanx> I just get the idea that fraud is way to easy with just a signature. All you need is the card.
2018-10-14T23:23:22 < catphish> to me EMV is just the organization that standardized it, wouldn't EMV cover all thee tech, smartcard, pin, 3dsecure, nfc?
2018-10-14T23:23:33 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: fraud against sellers, not the card holder though.
2018-10-14T23:23:37 < Steffanx> Sure its "secure" for you, although moving the responsibilty to someone else isnt really "security".
2018-10-14T23:23:38 < zyp> no, EMV is the standard
2018-10-14T23:24:18 < kakimir> time to linux my laptop
2018-10-14T23:24:19 < zyp> «EMV originally stood for Europay, Mastercard, and Visa, the three companies that created the standard. The standard is now managed by EMVCo, a consortium with control split equally among Visa, Mastercard, JCB, American Express, China UnionPay, and Discover.»
2018-10-14T23:24:20 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: why would I want something that makes it more risky for me?
2018-10-14T23:24:24 < Steffanx> If you're handy enough you'll be able to do at least a okish copy of any signature.
2018-10-14T23:24:30 < catphish> ah, EMV is the standard, they named it after the companies, but still EMV+PIN makes no sense right, EMV covers it all, the chip, the PIN, the NFC
2018-10-14T23:25:09 < PaulFertser> catphish: PIN is not mandatory for an EMV payment. It depends on the card and the POS settings.
2018-10-14T23:25:23 < catphish> but i guess it makes sense to call the smartcard (with or without a PIN or signature or NFC) EMV
2018-10-14T23:25:31 < zyp> yes
2018-10-14T23:25:35 < catphish> i see :)
2018-10-14T23:25:46 < catphish> the term is never used in the UK for some reason
2018-10-14T23:25:52 < zyp> not here either
2018-10-14T23:26:00 < catphish> people here call it chip + pin, or contactless
2018-10-14T23:26:24 < zyp> we don't need a term for it, magstripe got obsoleted years ago
2018-10-14T23:26:33 < PaulFertser> catphish: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/19/chip_and_skim/ <- uk article about uk research.
2018-10-14T23:26:41 < catphish> and nobody here has ever accepted a smartcard with a signature
2018-10-14T23:26:42 < zyp> all cards are chip, magstripe isn't even accepted anymore
2018-10-14T23:27:13 < catphish> magstripe is still used sometimes, usually ATMs in obscure countries
2018-10-14T23:27:13 < Steffanx> PaulFertser, sure. But that doesnt make the signature idea less crappy.
2018-10-14T23:27:34 < zyp> what's the discussion anyway? pin vs signature?
2018-10-14T23:27:36 < catphish> i can dynamically enable the magstripe on my card
2018-10-14T23:27:36 < Steffanx> they could've picked a pin and still take the responsibilty when shit hit the fan
2018-10-14T23:27:39 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: pin is easier to clone, just look over the shoulder...
2018-10-14T23:27:49 < Steffanx> or whatever alternative to the pin there is.
2018-10-14T23:27:53 < PaulFertser> zyp: yes, my bank allows me to choose either.
2018-10-14T23:28:19 < zyp> most terminals here lets me do that with my credit cards, but not my debit card
2018-10-14T23:28:25 < zyp> debit card is pin only
2018-10-14T23:28:35 < Steffanx> or wireless payment? No pin needed at all?
2018-10-14T23:28:36 < Steffanx> :P
2018-10-14T23:28:39 < Steffanx> no signature.
2018-10-14T23:28:42 < Steffanx> no nothing.
2018-10-14T23:28:45 < zyp> only up to 200 NOK
2018-10-14T23:28:47 < PaulFertser> Up to a specific amount.
2018-10-14T23:28:57 < PaulFertser> And the responsibility is on the seller I guess?
2018-10-14T23:28:59 < catphish> all my cards have all options, some allow the magstripe to be enabled on demand, others it's always enabled
2018-10-14T23:29:23 < PaulFertser> The seller is supposed to check ID, you can't use someone else's visa.
2018-10-14T23:30:10 < mawk> I finished my nrf52 hello world
2018-10-14T23:30:21 < mawk> blinky led and some hello world to the uart
2018-10-14T23:30:31 < mawk> that thing is a real mess, there is no real documentation on how to get started
2018-10-14T23:30:36 < catphish> i've almost got NFC figured out
2018-10-14T23:30:39 < Steffanx> i think the bank is responsible, PaulFertser. You lost you money, they'll get it back to you.
2018-10-14T23:30:39 < PaulFertser> mawk: btw, you can debug it with openocd, it has experimental RTT patches on gerrit.
2018-10-14T23:30:41 < mawk> I just studied some examples and try adding stuff to the makefile until it compiles
2018-10-14T23:30:51 < mawk> yeah I'm using openocd PaulFertser 
2018-10-14T23:30:56 < mawk> no choice, I don't have a jlink or whatever
2018-10-14T23:31:03 < PaulFertser> mawk: because normal debugging is not feasible with that sdr code of theirs :/
2018-10-14T23:31:15 < mawk> and yeah I've got the bleeding edge openocd from their git repo
2018-10-14T23:31:17 < PaulFertser> mawk: you can use segger rtt with stlink or whatever
2018-10-14T23:31:19 < catphish> i've learned ISO-14443-3, now i need to learn ISO-14443-4, so much specs, but it's pretty clever
2018-10-14T23:31:23 < mawk> because otherwise it didn't have full support
2018-10-14T23:31:34 < mawk> yeah I mean I don't have the jlink dongle
2018-10-14T23:31:44 < mawk> which is used by their nrfjprog tool, no ?
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2018-10-14T23:31:53 < Steffanx> You can always get a clone on ebay/aliexpress :P
2018-10-14T23:32:03 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-14T23:32:17 < mawk> but I already had two stlinks, and a bunch of blue pills I can program to be CMSIS-DAP programmers
2018-10-14T23:32:18 < PaulFertser> mawk: http://openocd.zylin.com/#/c/4055/
2018-10-14T23:32:29 < PaulFertser> No need for jlink
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2018-10-14T23:33:09 < catphish> zyp: this NFC thing is quite the rabbit hole, i've got to grips with a lot of it now :) i will indeed be using my android device in card emulation mode
2018-10-14T23:33:12 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: nrf5x do not support SWO so it doesn't matter what adapter is used, and segger rtt doesn't really depend on jlink anyhow, can be used with any swd adapter.
2018-10-14T23:33:29 < mawk> but stlink is a weird adapter
2018-10-14T23:33:34 < mawk> it doesn't support the low level commands others support
2018-10-14T23:33:40 < mawk> according to the openocd docs
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2018-10-14T23:33:54 < catphish> need to get my board hooked up to some RF testing soon to see if my card detection problem is down to antenna matching problems
2018-10-14T23:34:01 < PaulFertser> mawk: right, it's a high level adapter.
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2018-10-14T23:34:09 < mawk> the board I have can do NFC
2018-10-14T23:34:13 < mawk> nrf52840
2018-10-14T23:34:28 < catphish> cool :)
2018-10-14T23:34:30 < mawk> it says "on chip nfc tag", I don't know if that means there is a NFC antenna embedded or something
2018-10-14T23:34:52 < mawk> that would be quite small to hide an antenna in
2018-10-14T23:35:06 < catphish> i'd say that module requires external antennas for all its RF
2018-10-14T23:35:18 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-14T23:35:26 < catphish> cool it does ANT too
2018-10-14T23:35:35 < mawk> maybe by tag they mean the low-power SENSE stuff for nfc
2018-10-14T23:35:41 < mawk> that allows to draw almost no current while idle
2018-10-14T23:36:22 < catphish> that's what i'm trying to do with my ST95HF, it doesn't work :(
2018-10-14T23:39:10 < Steffanx> Is RTT actually some open protocol PaulFertser ?
2018-10-14T23:39:16 < Steffanx> interface
2018-10-14T23:39:22 < Steffanx> or whatever segger exactly specified
2018-10-14T23:41:04 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I think it's documented
2018-10-14T23:41:37 < PaulFertser> Not sure how "open" it is in the legal sense.
2018-10-14T23:43:38 < karlp> mawk: as I've tried telling you, unless you "need" these "low level" commands, it's transparent to you.
2018-10-14T23:46:09 < zyp> mawk, my nrf52 board came with an external nfc antenna to connect
--- Day changed Mon Oct 15 2018
2018-10-15T00:14:11 < catphish> so, here's an unpleasant fact, my favourite whiskey that i bought a couple of years ago for £40 now seems to cost £110 :(
2018-10-15T00:14:42 < karlp> brexit baby
2018-10-15T00:14:45 < karlp> pound collapsed
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2018-10-15T00:15:19 < catphish> it's made in the UK...
2018-10-15T00:15:24 < Steffanx> Cost is irrelevant when its goos.
2018-10-15T00:15:46 < Steffanx> D.
2018-10-15T00:15:52 < karlp> catphish: 100% of costs too?
2018-10-15T00:16:07 < karlp> I mean, I'm being cheeky, but still.
2018-10-15T00:16:44 < catphish> karlp: i'd imagine so, i mean, it's just barrels and grain and water :)
2018-10-15T00:17:03 < catphish> https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/p/2940/suntory-yamazaki-12-year-old
2018-10-15T00:17:05 < catphish> it's good :)
2018-10-15T00:17:27 < Steffanx> That sounds jappy muxh
2018-10-15T00:17:30 < karlp> is it just _made_ in the uk, but you buy it at the export rates?
2018-10-15T00:17:36 < karlp> whicih then took the pound into it?
2018-10-15T00:17:43 < Steffanx> Oh it is.
2018-10-15T00:17:47 < catphish> karlp: yeah i'm an idiot, this is japanese whiskey
2018-10-15T00:17:56 < karlp> you are an idiot, yes.
2018-10-15T00:17:56 < catphish> karlp: it's not made in scotland at all :)
2018-10-15T00:17:59  * karlp laughs
2018-10-15T00:18:08 < karlp> so..... thank boris and nige then.
2018-10-15T00:18:38 < catphish> karlp: oh i do, and my mother
2018-10-15T00:19:34 < Steffanx> And Blaxter.
2018-10-15T00:19:45 < Steffanx> He was pro-brexit
2018-10-15T00:19:49 < catphish> we had a referendum, even ignoring the result, the process was a disaster
2018-10-15T00:20:33 < catphish> we briefly had a horribly polarized population
2018-10-15T00:20:50 < karlp> heh, briefly.
2018-10-15T00:21:05 < catphish> well now we're back to keeping a straight face and drinking tea
2018-10-15T00:21:16 < catphish> and hoping it'll all blow over so we can go to the pub for a nice pint
2018-10-15T00:22:24 < Steffanx> Is it true a true englishman doesnt clean its teapot? For the best flavour, catphish?
2018-10-15T00:23:17 < catphish> Steffanx: i don't know, i don't own a teapot :( i just use disposible tea bags like a plebeian
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2018-10-15T00:25:49 < kakimir> who was the guy moving to swiss?
2018-10-15T00:26:34 < kakimir> superbia?
2018-10-15T00:27:05 < Steffanx> Ya
2018-10-15T00:27:26 < antto> he's a Skoda, he can move to anywhere
2018-10-15T00:27:59 < antto> what car are you, kakimir?
2018-10-15T00:28:09 < kakimir> lada
2018-10-15T00:28:14 < antto> ooh
2018-10-15T00:28:19 < antto> niva?
2018-10-15T00:28:22 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-15T00:28:24 < antto> noice
2018-10-15T00:28:32 < antto> 4x4mir
2018-10-15T00:28:36 < kakimir> idk. really
2018-10-15T00:28:42 < kakimir> let's think about it
2018-10-15T00:28:50 < Steffanx> Antto car: https://youtu.be/vUKolh8Q9hA
2018-10-15T00:29:05 < kakimir> describe me with adjectives?
2018-10-15T00:29:18 < antto> wut was an adjective
2018-10-15T00:29:35 < kakimir> "adjektiivi"
2018-10-15T00:29:46 < antto> that ain't helpin'
2018-10-15T00:29:57 < mawk> yes kakimir 
2018-10-15T00:29:59 < mawk> karlp: 
2018-10-15T00:30:01 < mawk> but you need to be aware of this
2018-10-15T00:30:07 < mawk> you can't just plug it like any adapter
2018-10-15T00:30:17 < Steffanx> Why not?
2018-10-15T00:30:17 < mawk> that's why I was surprised that this nrfjprog tool worked with it
2018-10-15T00:30:19 < kakimir> adjective describes quality of some thing
2018-10-15T00:30:45 < antto> well, describe yer qualities then
2018-10-15T00:30:58 < mawk> the program needs to be aware of this I mean Steffanx 
2018-10-15T00:31:02 < antto> ur very kaki
2018-10-15T00:31:05 < antto> but also mir
2018-10-15T00:31:09 < mawk> once the code knows yeah you can plug it like any adapter
2018-10-15T00:32:17 < kakimir> Steffanx: describe me
2018-10-15T00:32:21 < kakimir> adjectives
2018-10-15T00:32:41 < antto> u sure u want that? :/
2018-10-15T00:32:50 < kakimir> sure
2018-10-15T00:32:53 < antto> Steffanx is biased
2018-10-15T00:32:59 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-15T00:33:07 < kakimir> positive things about me - it's okay
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2018-10-15T00:40:45 < antto> <crickets.wav>
2018-10-15T00:46:03 < Steffanx> antto didnt allow me to do it, kakimir 
2018-10-15T00:54:22 < kakimir> nothing positive to say
2018-10-15T00:56:32 < kakimir> <crickets2.wav>
2018-10-15T01:19:00 < kakimir> G'day sir
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2018-10-15T01:21:37 < karlp> mawk: actually, for 99% of things, you just can.
2018-10-15T01:22:11 < karlp> do you need boundary scan? no. you're fine.
2018-10-15T01:22:51 < karlp> the wording is very fearmongery IMO on the oocd docs.
2018-10-15T01:28:16 < karlp> dongs: that's toradex design notes says, "When using a tantalum capacitor, please use a capacitor with at least a 10mF capacitance value"
2018-10-15T01:28:21 < karlp> surely they mean uF there right?
2018-10-15T01:28:35 < karlp> like, this is just nutes, "For application’s,
2018-10-15T01:28:37 < karlp> which require output current of more than 100mA, a tantalum capacitor with over 100mF of load capacitance value
2018-10-15T01:28:39 < karlp> should be connected."
2018-10-15T01:30:00 < karlp> "The ESR (equivalent serial resistance) value for the load capacitor should be about 0.1W to 0.5W"
2018-10-15T01:30:09 < karlp> they're meaning ohm sthere too right?
2018-10-15T01:30:14 < karlp> the fuck is wrong with them?
2018-10-15T01:30:48 < karlp> "if you use an OS-CON, blah might happen.  therefore, don't use ceramics."
2018-10-15T01:30:50 < karlp> what?
2018-10-15T01:38:02 < catphish> that all sounds mildly insane :)
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2018-10-15T03:16:54 < Thorn> what current should I use for pt100 to make self-heating negligible?
2018-10-15T03:21:04 -!- Laurenceb124 [~laurence@host86-140-184-196.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-15T03:21:17 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/CZgDjwv2
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2018-10-15T03:37:56 < Thorn> why would I thermally insulate a temperature sensor
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2018-10-15T04:30:54 < dongs> karlp: microfarads, no? probly just a jap way of saying uF
2018-10-15T04:37:42 < Thorn> lol TI ADCs: one has PGA with gain 64 or 128, another has no PGA at all
2018-10-15T04:55:09 < Thorn> looks like I found a perfect ADC http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ads1220.pdf
2018-10-15T04:55:22 < Thorn> and it's $4.3 single @ lcsc
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2018-10-15T05:05:15 < Thorn> their rtd circuit collection appnote (SBAA275) is based on ads1246...48 which seems to be almost the same as ads1220 but with more channels
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2018-10-15T08:57:06 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LikxFZZO2sk
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2018-10-15T09:27:00 < mawk> nature makes ugly stuff sometimes
2018-10-15T09:27:28 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-15T09:27:34 < mawk> but I wouldn't touch this yellow pocket
2018-10-15T09:28:34 < jadew> what's that yello thing at the bottom of the black stripe?
2018-10-15T09:28:38 < jadew> (under its neck)
2018-10-15T09:28:42 < jadew> there's like... a claw
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2018-10-15T09:29:25 < jadew> that's pretty cool
2018-10-15T09:29:40 < jadew> I like that bird
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2018-10-15T10:19:51 < Steffanx> What sound does it make crt? Can you do a recording?
2018-10-15T10:19:58 < Steffanx> *immitation
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2018-10-15T10:57:13 < Steffanx> I wanna hear
2018-10-15T11:15:55 < Steffanx> Where do i get those wavs Haohmaru ?
2018-10-15T11:21:16 < Steffanx> Can you make it a network share for me?
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2018-10-15T11:22:02 < tekko> o/ hi all
2018-10-15T11:23:20 < tekko> Guys, I need to generate PPM output for the Pixhawk autopilot for my RC drone, anybody knows how to generate PPM via Timers + Interrupts?
2018-10-15T11:24:20 < PaulFertser> tekko: hi. There're some existing projects
2018-10-15T11:25:33 < PaulFertser> tekko: probably https://github.com/diggit/xlyrx ?
2018-10-15T11:25:37 < tekko> PaulFertser: hi, thanks. could you please point me out to some? I couldn't find any
2018-10-15T11:27:45 < tekko> PaulFertser: wow, that looks awesome! Thanks! do you know any other projects?
2018-10-15T11:28:09 < PaulFertser> tekko: I think I saw some arduino-based so meh :/
2018-10-15T11:29:05 < tekko> PaulFertser: Yea, me too... there's PulsePosition library that I thought I could port to STM32, it's for Teensy 3.1, so Freescale...
2018-10-15T11:30:07 < PaulFertser> tekko: hm, doesn't "deviation" know how to generate PPM?
2018-10-15T11:31:13 < zyp> isn't this just a chain of pulses where the length of each pulse sets the value for one channel?
2018-10-15T11:31:17 < tekko> PaulFertser: What do you mean?
2018-10-15T11:31:33 < PaulFertser> tekko: I mean you can borrow from its firmware, it's supposed to be smart and nice.
2018-10-15T11:31:42 < PaulFertser> zyp: yeah, it is.
2018-10-15T11:31:47 < tekko> zyp: yes
2018-10-15T11:32:21 < zyp> I'd just configure a timer with a channel in OC mode, put the pulse lengths in an array and set up DMA to transfer the values from the array to the timer
2018-10-15T11:32:32 < tekko> PaulFertser: Where do I find deviation's firmware? I'm kinda lost...
2018-10-15T11:32:53 < PaulFertser> tekko: https://deviationtx.com/ 
2018-10-15T11:33:17 < zyp> if you know how the pulse train is supposed to look, I expect it to be faster to write your own code to do it than to figure out how some other code works
2018-10-15T11:33:39 < PaulFertser> zyp: you've experience using DMA in tricky ways, something most people in RC hobby lack, unfortunately.
2018-10-15T11:33:55 < zyp> "tricky"
2018-10-15T11:33:58 < tekko> zyp: never worked with Timers, nor DMA... is there any good tutorial out there? I've been into programming for about 17 years, but never worked with MCUs
2018-10-15T11:34:22 < zyp> tekko, do you have a description of the pulse train?
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2018-10-15T11:35:44 < tekko> PaulFertser: Thanks, that looks really promising
2018-10-15T11:36:39 < zyp> PaulFertser, I'd still argue that learning the basics of how a timer and DMA works is easier than wrapping your head around how some other code using timers and DMA works
2018-10-15T11:38:19 < PaulFertser> zyp: I guess you're right. And it's likely tekko will need some LA or 'scope anyway to understand what's going on.
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2018-10-15T11:39:30 < tekko> zyp: I have 2 joysticks that use hall sensors, that I read by MCU. In fact I have to feed the Pixhawk autopilot with 8 channels, but first two will mirror the two joysticks... Is that you wanted to know?
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2018-10-15T11:43:20 < tekko> PaulFertser: zyp: Could you guys please point me out to some good Timers / DMA / Interrupts tutorial? Best would be something example-based.
2018-10-15T11:43:39 < malinus> tekko: you could just looks in the taranis firmware instead of rolling your own attempt. It will definetly have solid (and general) ppm functionality, and it's based, or can at least build on, stm32 - https://github.com/opentx/opentx
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2018-10-15T11:44:47 < tekko> malinus: Thanks! I will definitely look at this.
2018-10-15T11:45:04 < PaulFertser> malinus: why taranis is better than deviation? ;)
2018-10-15T11:45:10 < malinus> tekko: taranis is running https://github.com/opentx/opentx
2018-10-15T11:45:17 < malinus> *STM32F2 or something
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2018-10-15T11:45:59 < malinus> PaulFertser: sorry I didn't see your response. I suggested taranis, because it's the only radio I knew from the top of my head, and I was pretty sure it was stm32 and had open source software :)
2018-10-15T11:48:07 < malinus> tekko: there you go :P https://github.com/opentx/opentx/blob/17b4aa24668bc4b223dd0613a48d2cc050e39358/radio/src/pulses/ppm_arm.cpp
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2018-10-15T11:58:06 < tekko> malinus: thnx!
2018-10-15T12:10:05 < tekko> In fact I will have to program something like Taranis X9E and this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/IRC-ImmersionRC-433MHZ-112dbi-EzUHF-Receiver-8-channel-diversity-Long-Range-UHF-Receiver-RX-for-RC/32855849000.html
2018-10-15T12:10:27 < tekko> Via SX1276
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2018-10-15T13:12:07 < srk> better use SBus if possible
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2018-10-15T14:50:50 < Laurenceb> https://postimg.cc/BtKbvJwr
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2018-10-15T15:17:34 < Laurenceb> wtf Free Thought Project got perma B&
2018-10-15T15:17:52 < Laurenceb> faceberg and twitter confirmed as gamergaters
2018-10-15T15:21:23 < Laurenceb> Facebook and twitter just seem to be b&ing everything that's not bread and circuses right now
2018-10-15T15:24:31 < Laurenceb> wew they are banning all the SJWs
2018-10-15T15:32:05 < Laurenceb> faceberg was already dead and twitter soon will be
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2018-10-15T15:37:42 < Laurenceb> no fun allowed
2018-10-15T15:37:57 < Laurenceb> >learning via video
2018-10-15T15:37:59 < Laurenceb> no thanks
2018-10-15T15:38:12 < Laurenceb> heh
2018-10-15T15:38:29 < karlp> vendor has docs for vendor product? what a surprise.
2018-10-15T15:39:16 < karlp> matlab is the proverbial hammer
2018-10-15T15:40:27 < Laurenceb> I read thats as cwc-wiki
2018-10-15T15:40:34 < Laurenceb> too much trolling 4me
2018-10-15T15:40:56 < Laurenceb> matlab is nice for really nasty shit
2018-10-15T15:41:04 < Laurenceb> thrown together quickly
2018-10-15T15:41:25 < BrainDamage> matlab is essentially a collection of highly refined algos, taped together with a very mediocre language
2018-10-15T15:41:33 < BrainDamage> my gripe is not the algos, but the tape language
2018-10-15T15:41:40 < BrainDamage> the glue*
2018-10-15T15:42:04 < BrainDamage> maybe there, here simulink was part of normal univ curriculum
2018-10-15T15:42:57 < BrainDamage> the whole information science engineering have first 2 years in common here
2018-10-15T15:43:34 < BrainDamage> so telecom, info, electronics and automation control
2018-10-15T15:44:43 < zyp> I'm dealing with that stuff at work
2018-10-15T15:45:05 < zyp> not a big fan of it
2018-10-15T15:45:26 < BrainDamage> I'm not a fan either, but as far as collection of pre-made stuff, it has its place
2018-10-15T15:45:46 < BrainDamage> the main problem comes when you try to do that cannot be easily written as a chain of preexisting functions
2018-10-15T15:46:32 < zyp> we're two guys doing software for the thing we're developing, the other guy is doing all the matlab/simulink stuff, which generates C code
2018-10-15T15:46:40 < zyp> and I'm building the platform under it
2018-10-15T15:47:00 < zyp> including shoveling data into/out of the simulink blob
2018-10-15T15:47:29 < zyp> how does what work?
2018-10-15T15:47:59 < zyp> yeah, we haven't tried the other way around
2018-10-15T15:49:15 < zyp> the code generates functions to call
2018-10-15T15:49:30 < zyp> init/deinit and then one or more step functions to call per cycle
2018-10-15T15:49:40 < zyp> you get more than one of there's multiple cycle rates in the model
2018-10-15T15:53:32 < zyp> it's .h/.c-files
2018-10-15T15:54:08 < zyp> I call it a blob because it's pretty self contained with a clear border from the rest of the system
2018-10-15T15:54:55 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Oj7LJ <- here's an excerpt of my task that runs the stuff, I cut away some of the data massaging
2018-10-15T15:55:12 < zyp> for some reason this shit is split into three blobs that I need to copy the data between
2018-10-15T15:55:45 < zyp> the other guy figured that might be a good idea since the MotorMasterIni-model only needs to run during startup
2018-10-15T15:55:54 < zyp> I think it is a terrible idea
2018-10-15T15:56:06 < zyp> so I'm gonna talk him into merging it all later
2018-10-15T15:56:12 < karlp> I love how searching for vPortTaskUsesFPU returns forums and code snippets, but not official freertos docs
2018-10-15T15:56:41 < zyp> because it's port specific, and the documentation of the ports is not very thorough, just the core
2018-10-15T15:57:02 < karlp> well, https://www.freertos.org/Using-FreeRTOS-on-Cortex-A-Embedded-Processors.html#floating-point documents the wrapper,
2018-10-15T15:57:09 < karlp> portTASK_USES_FLOATING_POINT is documented, 
2018-10-15T15:57:14 < karlp> why aren't you using that :)
2018-10-15T15:58:06 < zyp> well, this is not cortex-a, so I haven't read up on the cortex-a port docs
2018-10-15T15:59:06 < karlp> one of the wonderful things abotu freertos.
2018-10-15T15:59:11 < zyp> yeah
2018-10-15T15:59:19 < zyp> is it required on cortex-m too?
2018-10-15T15:59:25 < karlp> absolutely no idea.
2018-10-15T15:59:45 < zyp> on cortex-m it's possible to autolearn
2018-10-15T15:59:46 < karlp> I'd never seen it before, but I a) don't use an m4f part and b) don't use freertos in anger
2018-10-15T16:00:09 < karlp> there's a cortex-a setting to make it 2, so it will automatically have floating point support for tasks, from that page, but *shrugs*
2018-10-15T16:01:01 < zyp> i.e. on cortex-m you can disable the fpu for all tasks initially, and then once a task invokes the first fp instructions, it'll fault
2018-10-15T16:01:18 < zyp> and the fault handler can mark the task as using the fpu, enable it and retry
2018-10-15T16:02:18 < karlp> is this to try and avoid pushing/popping a few regs that might be unused otherwise.
2018-10-15T16:02:27 < karlp> I love the work some people go to to optimize somet hings
2018-10-15T16:02:28 < zyp> arm has an app note that describes this along with how to use lazy stacking
2018-10-15T16:02:32 < zyp> yes
2018-10-15T16:03:02 < zyp> it reduces the context size for tasks not using the fpu, which saves both context switch time and stack space
2018-10-15T16:03:04 < karlp> needs a good robust fault handler, but I guess it can save real time over a long run
2018-10-15T16:03:22 < zyp> yeah
2018-10-15T16:03:27 < karlp> and "safer" thatn explicitly marking tasks arguably.
2018-10-15T16:03:42 < zyp> if I ever get around to putting more work into the multithreading stuff in laks, I'm adding that
2018-10-15T16:05:00 < zyp> explicitly marking tasks is stupid, it's pretty fucking hard to know what might invoke fp stuff somewhere down your call graph
2018-10-15T16:05:53 < karlp> yeah, exactly.
2018-10-15T16:06:03 < karlp> it'ðs why that "uses fpu" call caught my eye, 
2018-10-15T16:06:08 < karlp> like, why the fuck would I want to be doing that?!
2018-10-15T16:06:45 < zyp> I discovered it when I started getting corrupt data :)
2018-10-15T16:07:29 < zyp> I also have a shell task that interprets and executes various commands, and I wrote a command to run some tests and generate some statistics
2018-10-15T16:08:15 < zyp> and my statistics got trashed because the sl_glue task which is higher priority preempted it and trashed the FPU state
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2018-10-15T16:40:14 < Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanzi#/media/File:Kanzi_in_the_indoor_test_apparatus.jpg
2018-10-15T16:40:21 < Laurenceb> typical arduino developer
2018-10-15T16:47:01 < karlp> you're hilarious
2018-10-15T16:50:11 < aandrew> butthurt arduino dev detected
2018-10-15T16:51:19 < Laurenceb> https://postimg.cc/0KPxm7y6
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2018-10-15T17:27:31 < kakimir> sweet
2018-10-15T17:28:02 < kakimir> my i2c code works when I step over
2018-10-15T17:28:10 < kakimir> but if I let it run freely it doesn't
2018-10-15T17:28:14 < Laurenceb> impressive
2018-10-15T17:28:26 < Laurenceb> mine is the opposite :P
2018-10-15T17:28:52 < Laurenceb> interrupt driven state machine?
2018-10-15T17:29:40 < kakimir> i2c is interrupt based ofc
2018-10-15T17:30:18 < kakimir> I let it run freely and I get sensor power off error
2018-10-15T17:30:35 < kakimir> maybe it pulls amps
2018-10-15T17:30:56 < kakimir> I need to add some more bypassing
2018-10-15T17:32:00 < kakimir> if it actually powers off
2018-10-15T17:33:19 < Laurenceb> HOL UP
2018-10-15T17:33:35 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45861683
2018-10-15T17:37:11 < kakimir> china gon crazy
2018-10-15T17:37:28 < kakimir> Haohmaru: is there some rare earth shiets in MLCC?
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2018-10-15T17:41:08 < kakimir> ?
2018-10-15T17:42:51 -!- tctw [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2018-10-15T17:43:14 < kakimir> hmm I might have some stupid shit happening
2018-10-15T17:43:30 < kakimir> conneced scope and I write to control register to power off the shiet
2018-10-15T17:43:47 < kakimir> apparently my command generation doesn't work
2018-10-15T17:48:25 < kakimir> what is that big demand?
2018-10-15T17:48:48 < kakimir> sales of mobile phones and personal computing are not in rise
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2018-10-15T18:01:20 < kakimir> where?
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2018-10-15T18:11:05 < kakimir> interesting detail about i2c debugging
2018-10-15T18:11:25 < kakimir> is that if you place breakpoint right after to say write
2018-10-15T18:11:49 < kakimir> i2c periph wont have enough time to release bus
2018-10-15T18:13:43 < kakimir> this might be some sort of timing issue
2018-10-15T18:13:49 < kakimir> with this sensor
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2018-10-15T18:29:42 < kakimir> yes it's timing issue
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2018-10-15T18:31:11 < kakimir> I think it changes i2c dat before the byte is out
2018-10-15T18:32:49 < kakimir> there is something wrong with my i2c implementation
2018-10-15T18:34:07 < kakimir> it releases the task before it has done anything
2018-10-15T18:35:44 < karlp> "introducing arm mbed linux"
2018-10-15T18:35:46 < kakimir> just wtf
2018-10-15T18:43:30 < Laurenceb> https://assets.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/144424/canfap.jpg
2018-10-15T18:44:12 < mawk> I just did some tech support for two migrants that asked me on the street
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2018-10-15T18:44:32 < mawk> both them and the ISP tech support on the phone were very incompetent
2018-10-15T18:44:45 < Laurenceb> no shit
2018-10-15T18:51:13 < kakimir> is there sort of thing that does conditional breakpoint
2018-10-15T18:51:20 < Steffanx> Lol you looked nerdy so they asked you, mawk? :]
2018-10-15T18:51:28 < mawk> in gdb kakimir ? sure
2018-10-15T18:51:32 < mawk> lol Steffanx
2018-10-15T18:51:39 < mawk> maybe because I looked so french
2018-10-15T18:51:45 < mawk> at least that was their excuse
2018-10-15T18:51:58 < mawk> "we can't read or write, help us unblock our SIM card"
2018-10-15T18:52:26 < Steffanx> https://www.flickr.com/photos/alan-photos/5077682329 ?
2018-10-15T18:53:12 < mawk> lol
2018-10-15T18:53:26 < mawk> my stepdad wears a béret
2018-10-15T18:53:47 < BrainDamage> does he wear a baguette too?
2018-10-15T18:54:05 < mawk> he gets them home delivered
2018-10-15T18:54:21 < mawk> but he's half italian
2018-10-15T18:54:27 < BrainDamage> I'm sorry for you
2018-10-15T18:54:29 < Steffanx> Oh no
2018-10-15T18:54:38 < mawk> well at least he has an italian dad that left his mother at his birth
2018-10-15T18:54:46 < Steffanx> mario?
2018-10-15T18:54:49 < mawk> and he shows sympathy for italy
2018-10-15T18:54:59 < mawk> his name is Catanzaro or something like that
2018-10-15T18:55:01 < BrainDamage> sympathy or pity?
2018-10-15T18:55:51 < mawk> he's a simple man with simple emotions
2018-10-15T18:56:04 < mawk> I don't think he goes beyond like/not like
2018-10-15T18:56:17 < Steffanx> Hehe.
2018-10-15T18:56:20 < mawk> he did some boxing, rugby, and had chemiotherapy for a cancer
2018-10-15T18:56:24 < Steffanx> So what you need kakimir?
2018-10-15T18:56:24 < mawk> all of that reduced his IQ
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2018-10-15T19:05:35 < Steffanx> Wake up kakimir 
2018-10-15T19:08:23 < mawk> he died browsing gdb docs
2018-10-15T19:10:31 < Steffanx> Or to much of that weird stuff he uses. Snus or something
2018-10-15T19:10:32 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-15T19:10:36 < Steffanx> Too*
2018-10-15T19:10:45 < kakimir> I heard word GDB and I died
2018-10-15T19:11:59 < Laurenceb> https://www.upworthy.com/female-bonobos-shut-down-violent-males-heres-what-humans-can-learn-from-them
2018-10-15T19:12:19 < mawk> lol
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2018-10-15T19:35:45 < upgrdman> whats the altidongs hotkey to change how a pcb trace bends
2018-10-15T19:35:54 < Steffanx> Imagine its 3:35.
2018-10-15T19:35:59 < upgrdman> like 45deg or rounded or 90deg, etc
2018-10-15T19:37:10 < Steffanx> Shift+spacebar?
2018-10-15T19:37:50 < Steffanx> Idk really, i never use rounded.
2018-10-15T19:39:04 < Steffanx> crt knows. Hes certified altium pro
2018-10-15T19:40:02 < Steffanx> Good morning crt. Excellent time to answer questions
2018-10-15T19:40:36 < upgrdman> Steffanx, shift-space was it. thx
2018-10-15T19:40:48 < Steffanx> crt alarm woke me up
2018-10-15T19:42:23 < Steffanx> ##stm32 approved tool.
2018-10-15T19:43:29 < upgrdman> i've been altidonging for ~3 years. just never for long enough to memorize all the shit
2018-10-15T19:44:14 < Steffanx> Is he, crt?
2018-10-15T19:52:01 < Steffanx> I dont believe you
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2018-10-15T20:05:04 < Steffanx> Is stvn alright? Do you know?
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2018-10-15T20:09:52 < kakimir> Steffanx: to say I want i2c breakpoints to be active when certain variable value is certain value
2018-10-15T20:10:12 < kakimir> ie.
2018-10-15T20:10:36 < antto> eye too see
2018-10-15T20:10:58 < kakimir> if I call tsl_2561_set_and_verify_timing_register variable would be set and when it exit it would clear
2018-10-15T20:11:41 < kakimir> and only when variable has set value I2C handler breakpoints would be active
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2018-10-15T20:31:42 < kakimir> how does conditional breakpoint work?
2018-10-15T20:32:00 < kakimir> it adds condition check to binary and runs it?
2018-10-15T20:48:30 < tomeaton17> hello
2018-10-15T20:52:54 < gnom> .9
2018-10-15T20:53:01 < gnom> рш
2018-10-15T20:53:06 < gnom> hi
2018-10-15T20:54:30 < tomeaton17> anything interesting happened on ##stm32?
2018-10-15T20:56:37 < antto> nah, just.. same old innovation
2018-10-15T20:56:47 < gnom> here all the time something occurs
2018-10-15T21:06:11 < Steffanx> Welcome tomeaton17.
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2018-10-15T21:16:00 < kakimir> bug in i2c implementation is the most exciting thing that has happened to me in a week or two
2018-10-15T21:16:12 < kakimir> I feel engaged
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2018-10-15T21:20:55 < emeb> you need to get out more
2018-10-15T21:21:29 < Steffanx> "Yes dad" :P
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2018-10-15T21:27:10 < englishman> hacking in 2018 https://hackernoon.com/how-i-hacked-modern-vending-machines-43f4ae8decec
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2018-10-15T21:28:34 < kakimir> when something is broken it breaks the routine
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2018-10-15T21:29:21 < kakimir> suddenly I see clearly as I dive into code
2018-10-15T21:37:14 < Steffanx> Snus?
2018-10-15T21:46:08 < BrainDamage> englishman: I've hacked the previous gen but I didn't make an obnoxious web post about it
2018-10-15T21:46:18 < BrainDamage> ( the one he mentions about coges )
2018-10-15T21:46:56 < englishman> nice heh
2018-10-15T21:47:23 < BrainDamage> jesus, the captions are dripping of condescendion
2018-10-15T21:47:33 < mawk> I found clients for my embedded computing teacher who also does consulting activities
2018-10-15T21:47:36 < mawk> lol
2018-10-15T21:47:48 < mawk> maybe he can reward me by giving me my school year
2018-10-15T21:48:41 < BrainDamage> I probably still have a NFC ( not the standard though ) key around
2018-10-15T21:53:54 < Steffanx> thats now how it works mawk
2018-10-15T21:54:02 < Steffanx> shouldve kept the clients for yourself
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2018-10-15T21:54:41 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-15T21:54:46 < mawk> well I don't have his knowledge on that topic
2018-10-15T21:54:53 < mawk> the clients want a formation on yocto/buildroot
2018-10-15T21:54:59 < mawk> and that teacher is precisely the lead dev of buildroot
2018-10-15T21:55:25 < mawk> or something like that
2018-10-15T21:55:30 < Steffanx> hm
2018-10-15T21:56:13 < BrainDamage> https://ptpb.pw/Yth8.JPG
2018-10-15T21:56:30 < qyx> hey stm32 crypto experts
2018-10-15T21:56:33 < BrainDamage> the orange shit is epoxy from the manifacturer
2018-10-15T21:56:44 < BrainDamage> the white shit is superglue from me to keep it still
2018-10-15T21:56:58 < qyx> how would you transmit data one-way and avoid key/nonce reuse?
2018-10-15T21:57:39 < BrainDamage> how good are the clocks?
2018-10-15T21:58:10 < BrainDamage> and how much reliabile is the connection?
2018-10-15T21:58:26 < BrainDamage> nonce reuse is essentially a function of communication tolerance
2018-10-15T21:58:37 < BrainDamage> if your communication is perfect, you can avoid reuse
2018-10-15T21:58:49 < qyx> no guaranted delivery
2018-10-15T21:59:28 < qyx> and clocks may be actually synchronized, but I would not depend on that
2018-10-15T21:59:41 < qyx> basically it is not a problem to generate random 128+ bit nonce
2018-10-15T21:59:52 < qyx> and use ctr/ccm or similar mode
2018-10-15T22:00:00 < qyx> but I want to avoid sendind the nonce with the message
2018-10-15T22:00:17 < BrainDamage> just generate a sequence of n codes in the future
2018-10-15T22:00:26 < BrainDamage> and try them all until it matches
2018-10-15T22:00:28 < BrainDamage> with no rollback
2018-10-15T22:00:39 < BrainDamage> if a message arrives out of order, it's to be discarded
2018-10-15T22:00:45 < qyx> you mean with a functon like nonce = H(nonce)?
2018-10-15T22:00:50 < jpa-> why do you want to avoid sending the nonce?
2018-10-15T22:00:56 < qyx> because it is big
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2018-10-15T22:01:52 < jpa-> use counter and encode it as varint?
2018-10-15T22:02:03 < BrainDamage> enc_key = crypto(counter,nonce)
2018-10-15T22:02:24 < qyx> ok, but theres the problem of counter repeating
2018-10-15T22:02:26 < BrainDamage> then your message is AEAD(enc_key,message)
2018-10-15T22:02:33 < qyx> which would generate the same key for encryption
2018-10-15T22:02:38 < qyx> which is fatal in eg. ctr mode
2018-10-15T22:02:40 < jpa-> don't repeat the counter
2018-10-15T22:02:43 < BrainDamage> not if the counter is sufficiently large
2018-10-15T22:02:48 < BrainDamage> 128 bit
2018-10-15T22:03:09 < qyx> mhm, ctually this could work
2018-10-15T22:03:10 < jpa-> is the problem you have no permanent storage to continue counting from where you last were?
2018-10-15T22:03:16 < qyx> yes exactly
2018-10-15T22:03:38 < qyx> I could geenrate a new nonce every couple of seconds/minutes
2018-10-15T22:03:48 < qyx> and transmit it and then restart the counter
2018-10-15T22:04:02 < qyx> which would handle the situation when the receiver loses sync
2018-10-15T22:04:04 < jpa-> but without guaranteed delivery, how do you know if the other end got your nonce?
2018-10-15T22:04:09 < BrainDamage> if the message with the nonce is lost, you're screwed
2018-10-15T22:04:23 < qyx> mhm
2018-10-15T22:04:28 < BrainDamage> which is why I've asked if your channel is reliable
2018-10-15T22:04:31 < qyx> the simplest would be to do a proper ake
2018-10-15T22:04:44 < qyx> but that requires a two way communication
2018-10-15T22:04:45 < BrainDamage> re-keying requires a reliable channel or a 2-way com
2018-10-15T22:05:09 < BrainDamage> you could have a statistical take and send the nonce multiple times + FEC
2018-10-15T22:05:31 < BrainDamage> eg next nonce is sent at 30s intervals for 5 min before getting switched on
2018-10-15T22:05:38 < BrainDamage> but even that's fallible
2018-10-15T22:06:00 < qyx> yeah but then the channel is not usable for comms at all probably
2018-10-15T22:06:38 < mawk> [20:56:58] <qyx> how would you transmit data one-way and avoid key/nonce reuse?
2018-10-15T22:06:38 < jpa-> qyx: do the messages contain something like a timestamp elsewhere?
2018-10-15T22:06:41 < mawk> AES in CTR mode ?
2018-10-15T22:06:46 < mawk> with a pseudo-random sequence
2018-10-15T22:06:59 < qyx> mawk: yes, aes-ctr for example
2018-10-15T22:07:01 < mawk> with a long period
2018-10-15T22:07:09 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-15T22:07:20 < jpa-> mawk: his problem with CTR is that if he always starts at same value => reuse after reboot; if he doesn't start at same value => how does the other end know where to start?
2018-10-15T22:07:24 < BrainDamage> the problem of the CTR is that you cannot reuse it
2018-10-15T22:07:31 < BrainDamage> and no permanent storage
2018-10-15T22:07:35 < mawk> but you write the value to eeprom or flash
2018-10-15T22:07:41 < mawk> the current counter value
2018-10-15T22:07:48 < BrainDamage> yes, if you can, that's all fine
2018-10-15T22:07:51 < mawk> else you can count on statistics and just use pseudo-random everytime
2018-10-15T22:07:57 < mawk> collision will be unlikely
2018-10-15T22:08:03 < mawk> uh no
2018-10-15T22:08:07 < qyx> yes but for a reasonalbe size
2018-10-15T22:08:07 < mawk> the other side needs to know
2018-10-15T22:08:13 < jpa-> qyx: if the messages are somewhat unlikely to repeat, you could use like hash(msg) combined with e.g. 32bit nonce
2018-10-15T22:08:18 < qyx> and you need to transmit it along with the msg
2018-10-15T22:08:24 < BrainDamage> you can send the counter value
2018-10-15T22:08:33 < BrainDamage> just for the first message
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2018-10-15T22:09:45 < qyx> jpa-: mhm basically the messages can be repeated
2018-10-15T22:09:49 < qyx> or I can just fukit
2018-10-15T22:09:50 < qyx> because
2018-10-15T22:10:07 < qyx> normally you would use some dc-free encoding/whitening and then crc
2018-10-15T22:10:25 < qyx> using aead or any simple crypto would solve both
2018-10-15T22:10:28 < BrainDamage> ideally you'd use AEAD
2018-10-15T22:10:42 < qyx> using that with counter you can even avout repeat attacks
2018-10-15T22:10:51 < qyx> which would be great if there was not that key problem
2018-10-15T22:11:04 < BrainDamage> if your timer is sufficiently good, you can use that
2018-10-15T22:11:10 < BrainDamage> use timer as seed
2018-10-15T22:12:01 < qyx> that could actually work
2018-10-15T22:12:21 < qyx> and change the seed every cuple of minutes/hours
2018-10-15T22:12:35 < qyx> this would require the clocks to be ~ablut synchronized
2018-10-15T22:12:39 < qyx> *about
2018-10-15T22:12:50 < BrainDamage> yes, hence my initial question
2018-10-15T22:13:34 < qyx> but this would void PFS
2018-10-15T22:13:56 < qyx> as the past keys can be computed given the counters and known time
2018-10-15T22:14:20 < BrainDamage> you didn't mention that in the requirements >_>
2018-10-15T22:14:26 < qyx> screw that
2018-10-15T22:14:32 < englishman> emeb: the digilent board is $20 less at arrow
2018-10-15T22:14:36 < englishman> gonna get that today
2018-10-15T22:14:52 -!- talsit [foobar@gromit.mixdown.ca] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-15T22:15:10 < Steffanx> "that"?
2018-10-15T22:16:20 < BrainDamage> even hash chain can be inverted btw, you'd need a KDF to avoid hash inversion
2018-10-15T22:16:38 < BrainDamage> so key=KDF(key-1)
2018-10-15T22:17:19 < BrainDamage> out of curiosity, what kind of system is this to require PFS?
2018-10-15T22:17:40 < upgrdman> "that's a secret"
2018-10-15T22:17:50 < qyx> pfs is a standard requirement nowadays
2018-10-15T22:17:53 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-15T22:18:37 < qyx> no, not a secret, i just want to move some mesaured data around using radio
2018-10-15T22:18:51 < qyx> so pfs is not a requirement for this purpose
2018-10-15T22:23:44 < qyx> this guy is probably trying to solve similar problem https://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/52462/can-i-reuse-a-nonce-to-retransmit-the-same-packet-using-chacha20-poly1305
2018-10-15T22:25:37 < englishman> future electronics website is down
2018-10-15T22:25:38 < englishman> CANUCKED
2018-10-15T22:26:00 < kakimir> hello englishman 
2018-10-15T22:26:10 < englishman> sup sir kaks a lot
2018-10-15T22:26:14 < Steffanx> what fancy board is englishman arrowing?
2018-10-15T22:26:22 < kakimir> how is innovation englishman?
2018-10-15T22:26:30 < englishman> old crap plus a new nfc thing thats super arduinoy
2018-10-15T22:26:37 < englishman> and some industrial lighting shit
2018-10-15T22:26:47 < englishman> maple syrup guys need more shit too
2018-10-15T22:31:38 < Steffanx> As much as you like vegemite?
2018-10-15T22:35:47 < englishman> Jar of Vegemite is a candidate for inclusion in Unicode 12.0 scheduled for release in 2019 and was added to draft Emoji 12.0 in 2018.
2018-10-15T22:36:40 < englishman> 🦘 Kangaroo was approved as part of Unicode 11.0 in 2018 and added to Emoji 11.0 in 2018.
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2018-10-15T22:39:12 < englishman> wow microSD media is half the cost it was 6 months ago
2018-10-15T22:39:30 < Steffann> found that edison clone yet?
2018-10-15T22:39:53 < englishman> negative
2018-10-15T22:41:01 < zyp> which one? I saw some edison compatible boards once
2018-10-15T22:41:05 < englishman> $10.40 usd for 64gb sandisk class 10
2018-10-15T22:41:15 < englishman> if you come across something that is pin-compatible plz let me know
2018-10-15T22:41:19 < englishman> or even someone with edison stock
2018-10-15T22:43:26 < zyp> https://www.technexion.com/products/system-on-modules/pico/pico-compute-modules <- might have been these
2018-10-15T22:43:54 < englishman> hmm maybe
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2018-10-15T22:50:40 < zyp> Steffany
2018-10-15T22:51:41 < englishman> Steffanz
2018-10-15T22:52:18 < antto> stfn
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2018-10-15T23:06:54 < Steffanx> You guys already? 
2018-10-15T23:07:39 < emeb> englishman: did you get the cheaper digilent board @ arrow?
2018-10-15T23:07:50 < englishman> yeah
2018-10-15T23:07:54 < englishman> well havent placed the order yet
2018-10-15T23:07:56 < englishman> but will today
2018-10-15T23:08:02 < englishman> the white one
2018-10-15T23:08:06 < emeb> right
2018-10-15T23:08:09 < englishman> https://www.arrow.com/en/products/410-319/digilent
2018-10-15T23:08:20 < emeb> is it the same FPGA?
2018-10-15T23:08:30 < englishman> yeah the a35
2018-10-15T23:08:41 < englishman> same digilent part number
2018-10-15T23:08:44 < emeb> cool - sometimes they will do runs w/ lower spec parts.
2018-10-15T23:09:08 < englishman> afaik its already the lower spec one
2018-10-15T23:09:53 < Steffanx> didnt the tarduino footprint scare you away?
2018-10-15T23:10:07 < englishman> https://blog.digilentinc.com/arty-a7-100-now-available/
2018-10-15T23:10:20 < englishman> also more than 2x price
2018-10-15T23:10:34 < emeb> englishman: seems like the price for the a35 is virtually identical. What am I missing? https://store.digilentinc.com/arty-a7-artix-7-fpga-development-board-for-makers-and-hobbyists/
2018-10-15T23:11:08 < Laurenceb> typical britbong family https://postimg.cc/SJy7c4xj
2018-10-15T23:11:11 < englishman> probably not in canuckbucks
2018-10-15T23:11:15 < englishman> and no free ship
2018-10-15T23:11:35 < emeb> englishman: shipping counts.
2018-10-15T23:11:46 < Laurenceb> crt: it's ur babby photos
2018-10-15T23:12:00 < englishman> digikey turns $123usd into $173cad
2018-10-15T23:12:00 < antto> crt i suggest thru TOR maybe
2018-10-15T23:12:19 < emeb> bastards
2018-10-15T23:12:36 < Steffanx> 120 dollar for a board you can only toy with. Meh
2018-10-15T23:12:47 < englishman> additional $35usd for shipping from digilent
2018-10-15T23:12:53 < englishman> free from digijew or arrow
2018-10-15T23:12:53 < emeb> bleh
2018-10-15T23:13:01 < emeb> arrow it is
2018-10-15T23:13:07 < englishman> yes sir
2018-10-15T23:13:11 < kakimir> Laurenceb: at least they have family ideal right
2018-10-15T23:13:22 < Laurenceb> kakimir: thats 8chan mod grrrl
2018-10-15T23:13:34 < Laurenceb> lulz photos come out of her trial every day
2018-10-15T23:13:35 < englishman> also ordering a reel of god damn shitty old ass MCP1826
2018-10-15T23:13:53 < Laurenceb> wew murimutts btfo https://postimg.cc/rdhv2jZN
2018-10-15T23:14:39 < emeb> englishman: have  you considered a Zynq board?
2018-10-15T23:14:53 < emeb> like this one: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/410-370/digilent
2018-10-15T23:14:57 < englishman> Laurenceb: any more context
2018-10-15T23:15:14 < Laurenceb> englishman >17 F-22s wrecked in the hurricane
2018-10-15T23:15:16 < englishman> what is the big difference?
2018-10-15T23:15:24 < englishman> oh arm on board
2018-10-15T23:15:25 < englishman> neato
2018-10-15T23:15:27 < emeb> yes
2018-10-15T23:15:37 < emeb> not as much FPGA fabric
2018-10-15T23:15:37 < kakimir> Laurenceb: someone had soviet jet in their back yard?
2018-10-15T23:15:45 < englishman> is everything still done through vagino or whatever it's called now?
2018-10-15T23:15:47 < Steffanx> Soon you'll be only lunixing.
2018-10-15T23:15:50 < Laurenceb> kakimir: thats an F-22
2018-10-15T23:15:55 < kakimir> wait no
2018-10-15T23:15:57 < emeb> englishman: yes - Vivado.
2018-10-15T23:16:08 < kakimir> f22 srly?
2018-10-15T23:16:15 < kakimir> looks like f15
2018-10-15T23:16:20 < emeb> same tool flow - just extra goodies for the hard MCU + periphs
2018-10-15T23:16:23 < englishman> that is also cheap
2018-10-15T23:16:26 < emeb> yes
2018-10-15T23:16:30 < englishman> https://store.digilentinc.com/cora-z7-zynq-7000-single-core-and-dual-core-options-for-arm-fpga-soc-development/
2018-10-15T23:16:43 < emeb> right
2018-10-15T23:16:52 < emeb> downside - no switches, buttons, etc.
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2018-10-15T23:17:00 < englishman> meh
2018-10-15T23:17:07 < emeb> and fewer PMOD sockets
2018-10-15T23:18:39 < emeb> I've been using a similar Zynq board from Avnet for a while to do some fun stuff: https://twitter.com/ebrombaugh/status/1051543848365699072
2018-10-15T23:19:07 < Steffanx> zed[whatever board]?
2018-10-15T23:19:11 < emeb> yep
2018-10-15T23:19:14 < emeb> minized
2018-10-15T23:19:14 < Steffanx> a yes
2018-10-15T23:19:18 < Steffanx> yeah
2018-10-15T23:19:19 < englishman> neato
2018-10-15T23:19:19 < Steffanx> i noticed
2018-10-15T23:19:28 < englishman> how long have you been unemployed for?
2018-10-15T23:19:36 < emeb> :)
2018-10-15T23:19:39 < Steffanx> can always go for 450 dollar http://zedboard.org/product/zedboard :P
2018-10-15T23:19:43 < emeb> last contract finished a month ago. 
2018-10-15T23:21:18 < Steffanx> is this what emeb used ugfx for?
2018-10-15T23:21:33 < emeb> Steffanx: yes
2018-10-15T23:21:54 < englishman> i couldn't do that
2018-10-15T23:22:00 < englishman> i don't have any pth resistors
2018-10-15T23:22:27 < emeb> that's a ballast for the damned LCD backlight.
2018-10-15T23:23:13 < Laurenceb> sooon https://postimg.cc/yg5VTsF9
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2018-10-15T23:43:13 < englishman> https://www.arrow.com/en/cloud
2018-10-15T23:43:18 < englishman> what could possibly go wrong
2018-10-15T23:44:16 < antto> america could vote for trump
2018-10-15T23:44:18 < antto> oh wait
2018-10-15T23:45:53 < englishman> i think arrow cloud has more potential for apocalypse
2018-10-15T23:45:53 < Steffanx> lol arrow
2018-10-15T23:46:44 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@chl26-1-88-183-104-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2018-10-15T23:54:45 < mawk> I hate ARM docs
2018-10-15T23:54:54 < mawk> that is unreadable
2018-10-15T23:55:29 < mawk> ST makes much better ARM docs for their µc than the combined TI + official ARM docs I've found for a particular core
2018-10-15T23:56:56 < mawk> that's because ST is french
2018-10-15T23:57:05 < mawk> franco-italian
2018-10-15T23:58:07 < BrainDamage> obviously the good part of ST is the french one
2018-10-15T23:58:36 < BrainDamage> ps, the offer to hurl a brick to their offices still stands, they are within driving distance and I sometimes pass by
2018-10-15T23:58:44 < BrainDamage> I even have few friends that work at ST
2018-10-15T23:58:45 < Steffanx> I likw your positive mindset when it comes to italy BrainDamage 
2018-10-15T23:58:54 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-27b8d954.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-15T23:59:06 < BrainDamage> please find me an italian that has a positive mindset about italy
2018-10-15T23:59:18 < Steffanx> Drahgi?
2018-10-15T23:59:40 < BrainDamage> well, australia is hell
2018-10-15T23:59:56 < BrainDamage> by comparison it's not hard to view everything else in positive light
--- Day changed Tue Oct 16 2018
2018-10-16T00:00:08 < upgrdman> yes, australia is literally worse than hitler, amirite
2018-10-16T00:00:17 < mawk> draghi
2018-10-16T00:00:27 < mawk> a textbook example of conflict of interest and all
2018-10-16T00:00:58 < BrainDamage> draghi actually constantly whips italy's minister of treasure
2018-10-16T00:01:11 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-16T00:01:18 < mawk> these people would like to abolish national governments
2018-10-16T00:01:22 < mawk> at least national minister of finances
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2018-10-16T00:21:43 < mawk> are DAC expensive ? in die area, plain cost, current consumption, etc
2018-10-16T00:22:02 < mawk> in many mcu I have there is no dac
2018-10-16T00:22:08 < mawk> but an ADC
2018-10-16T00:22:34 < BrainDamage> you can fudge a DAC by pwm + filtering
2018-10-16T00:22:42 < BrainDamage> you cannot fudge an ADC
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2018-10-16T00:23:18 < BrainDamage> ( you could sort of fudge a sigma delta, but ehhhh )
2018-10-16T00:23:49 < BrainDamage> yes
2018-10-16T00:23:52 < mawk> I've thought of pwm+filtering
2018-10-16T00:23:58 < mawk> but it seemed unpractical for my application
2018-10-16T00:24:11 < mawk> I wanted to make a wide range ohmmeter
2018-10-16T00:24:29 < mawk> with a current source through a resistor and measuring the voltage drop 
2018-10-16T00:24:48 < mawk> and set the caliber through the DAC by programming the current source
2018-10-16T00:24:57 < mawk> but I figured there is no DAC on the mcu
2018-10-16T00:26:57 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-16T00:27:15 < zyp> that's how some ADCs work
2018-10-16T00:27:26 < mawk> really ? that seems very ugly
2018-10-16T00:28:24 < BrainDamage> SAR work exactly like that
2018-10-16T00:28:33 < BrainDamage> binary search using a DAC
2018-10-16T00:28:38 < zyp> yeah
2018-10-16T00:28:59 < zyp> counter ADCs too, they are just slower since they don't do binary search
2018-10-16T00:30:20 < BrainDamage> yeah, and have non-constant conversion time too
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2018-10-16T00:30:50 < zyp> only if you stop counting at the hit
2018-10-16T00:31:18 < BrainDamage> then it's extra registers to copy the result
2018-10-16T00:31:25 < zyp> true
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2018-10-16T00:32:04 < catphish> i think i've discovered a pretty serious flaw in the stm32
2018-10-16T00:32:15 < zyp> I remember the 6502 trainer we had in high school had a DAC+comparator module that we programmed SAR for
2018-10-16T00:32:32 < BrainDamage> it's supported unofficially by ##stm32?
2018-10-16T00:32:42 < BrainDamage> or the insane amount of erratas some chips have?
2018-10-16T00:32:50 < catphish> nope, worse than any of that
2018-10-16T00:32:57 < catphish> it has millenium bug :o
2018-10-16T00:33:06 < zyp> haha
2018-10-16T00:33:37 < zyp> it's pretty stupid to have a calendar RTC in a cortex-m
2018-10-16T00:34:00 < catphish> the fields where "year-hundreds" and "year-thousands" would be are "reserved"
2018-10-16T00:34:19 < catphish> zyp: why do? i mean, it's super useful for me
2018-10-16T00:34:24 < catphish> why so
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2018-10-16T00:35:35 < BrainDamage> I actually built a SAR in discrete logic with a friend, for a contest
2018-10-16T00:35:36 < zyp> because a linear counter is a lot more convenient for anything doing anything more complex than plain timestamping
2018-10-16T00:35:38 < BrainDamage> it was a mess
2018-10-16T00:35:57 < BrainDamage> even the DAC was discrete with R2R ladder
2018-10-16T00:36:21 < BrainDamage> we used a discrete shift register to load the bits
2018-10-16T00:36:25 < catphish> zyp: well true, it just so happens that i need a timestamp, although i'd *much* prefer it was just a linear 64 bit counter that i could put a unix timestamp in
2018-10-16T00:36:34 < BrainDamage> where the register was transistor latches
2018-10-16T00:36:38 < catphish> zyp: so you're right
2018-10-16T00:36:40 < BrainDamage> everyting on a breadboard
2018-10-16T00:36:45 < zyp> catphish, exactly
2018-10-16T00:37:00 < zyp> calendar RTCs is only useful if you're pulling printable timestamps directly out of it
2018-10-16T00:37:16 < catphish> the amount of work i have to do to convert a timestamp into their stupid BCD calendar format is silly
2018-10-16T00:37:33 < zyp> the most annoying part is that stm32f1 had a linear RTC, only the newer parts got a calendar RTC
2018-10-16T00:37:47 < catphish> how irritating
2018-10-16T00:38:28 < zyp> doesn't newlib have mktime()?
2018-10-16T00:38:37 < BrainDamage> the even more annoying part is that you can always take a linear rtc and convert to calendar
2018-10-16T00:38:52 < BrainDamage> viceversa is much more annoying if they messed up something
2018-10-16T00:41:52 < mawk> I don't understand how the SAR works
2018-10-16T00:41:56 < mawk> what kind of average is it ?
2018-10-16T00:42:14 < mawk> it counts on the fact that the noise is somewhat random and cancels out ?
2018-10-16T00:42:21 < mawk> like the average velocities in a gas cancel out
2018-10-16T00:42:23 < BrainDamage> ... average?
2018-10-16T00:42:32 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-16T00:42:37 < BrainDamage> successive approximation register
2018-10-16T00:42:43 < mawk> isn't SAR the successive approximation register ?
2018-10-16T00:42:43 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-16T00:42:50 < catphish> zyp: by the way i've managed to get communication with android working to set my RTC and writing it to a card is all good :) i think the only part of this project now failing is the card detection
2018-10-16T00:42:56 < mawk> in my nRF docs it's said that it's computed by averaging successive samples
2018-10-16T00:42:58 < BrainDamage> there's no averaging, it's direct comparison
2018-10-16T00:43:05 < zyp> okay, I checked, my toolchain seems to have mktime()
2018-10-16T00:43:06 < BrainDamage> nooope
2018-10-16T00:43:26 < BrainDamage> you literally test sending a bit, and see if it's higher or lower than your result
2018-10-16T00:43:32 < BrainDamage> and store the result
2018-10-16T00:43:39 < catphish> my partner suggests i just make controllers for model trains, that would be so much easier :)
2018-10-16T00:43:41 < zyp> to technically getting a linear timestamp is just a matter of stuffing the RTC values into mktime()
2018-10-16T00:43:51 < zyp> haha
2018-10-16T00:44:12 < zyp> I thought about making some model train control stuff a few years ago
2018-10-16T00:44:15 < mawk> ah
2018-10-16T00:44:20 < catphish> he's probably right, but then he likes trains, so i can't trust him
2018-10-16T00:44:22 < mawk> maybe I mixed things up with oversampling
2018-10-16T00:44:31 < BrainDamage> so eg you set msb to 1 in your dac, then check the comparator, is msb=1 higher or lower than input? if higher, store 0, if lower store 1
2018-10-16T00:44:46 < catphish> zyp: the modern train control stuff is really cool, digital signals in the power supply
2018-10-16T00:44:49 < BrainDamage> then you switch to 2nd bit, prev result + second bit 1, higher or lower, etc
2018-10-16T00:45:07 < zyp> catphish, yeah, I impulse bought some stuff once
2018-10-16T00:45:11 < mawk> ah, I see
2018-10-16T00:45:21 < BrainDamage> oversampling does exploit a property of time-averaging, but it's per sample
2018-10-16T00:45:27 < zyp> catphish, including a receiver
2018-10-16T00:45:34 < BrainDamage> SAR operation is done to *acquire* a sample
2018-10-16T00:45:35 < mawk> right
2018-10-16T00:46:01 < catphish> zyp: cool, i figure i could probably build it all if anyone wanted it
2018-10-16T00:46:17 < zyp> DDC I think it was called
2018-10-16T00:46:34 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gwIYh.JPG <- here's the receiver module that fits the trains I got
2018-10-16T00:46:54 < kakimir> nice board
2018-10-16T00:47:03 < zyp> the protocol is kinda dumb, so I thought about making a replacement with nrf51 or something instead
2018-10-16T00:47:07 < catphish> zyp: cool, yeah i've seen a few such things, some have DACs for sound effects too
2018-10-16T00:47:27 < catphish> the protocol is kinda fixed though isn't it, since everyone uses it
2018-10-16T00:47:35 < BrainDamage> mawk: https://ptpb.pw/j3zK.pdf I wrote this after I got furious about a conversation on irc, for some strange reason I kept returning being useful over and over through the years
2018-10-16T00:47:47 < zyp> catphish, yeah, I just figured I don't wanna use it :)
2018-10-16T00:47:52 < catphish> ah
2018-10-16T00:48:11 < catphish> i do wonder if i should try making something better when i'm done with this project
2018-10-16T00:48:15 < BrainDamage> broken english due to sight clouded by rage tears
2018-10-16T00:48:27 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/IXxjg.JPG
2018-10-16T00:48:40 < catphish> lots of problems with the existing hardware, mostly not being able to provide enough current for things
2018-10-16T00:48:58 < catphish> looks fun :)
2018-10-16T00:49:17 < catphish> is that on some kind of plastic base?
2018-10-16T00:49:21 < zyp> yeah
2018-10-16T00:49:26 < catphish> i've never seen that before
2018-10-16T00:50:09 < BrainDamage> mawk: the key point is that lowpass = average
2018-10-16T00:50:22 < mawk> hm
2018-10-16T00:50:23 < zyp> catphish, it's kato unitrack
2018-10-16T00:50:26 < mawk> I see yeah
2018-10-16T00:50:31 < mawk> but intuitively it still doesn't ring
2018-10-16T00:50:38 < kakimir> I like when pcb has some mechanical perspective to it
2018-10-16T00:51:05 < BrainDamage> think about this, if you sample very fast, the input changes slowly, but it does change
2018-10-16T00:51:26 < mawk> yes
2018-10-16T00:51:30 < BrainDamage> you're tracking information of the "real" state, through the slope and transition point where it has flipped the bits
2018-10-16T00:51:39 < mawk> if noise has a frequency multiple of the useful signal it will look like ±e and won't get averaged out
2018-10-16T00:51:41 < BrainDamage> therefore, you've gained extra resolution infors
2018-10-16T00:52:04 < BrainDamage> the assumption is white noise
2018-10-16T00:52:19 < BrainDamage> so uniform in spectrum
2018-10-16T00:52:25 < mawk> right
2018-10-16T00:52:31 < zyp> maybe after I move and get some more space, I can dig out that stuff again and build something fun
2018-10-16T00:52:39 < mawk> so even if the noise has frequency higher than fs/2 it will still get averaged out
2018-10-16T00:53:10 < BrainDamage> to be correct, the fact that the noise is white, is because noise there isn't noise, rather sampling error
2018-10-16T00:53:13 < BrainDamage> being equivalent to a noise
2018-10-16T00:53:22 < BrainDamage> it becomes a white spectrum of sampling error
2018-10-16T00:53:53 < mawk> how is the sampling error modeled ?
2018-10-16T00:53:56 < BrainDamage> if you switch to shit like sigma-delta, the noise does NOT have impulsive autocorrelation
2018-10-16T00:53:58 < mawk> directly as white noise ? how to justify this
2018-10-16T00:54:00 < BrainDamage> and it becomes a whore to model
2018-10-16T00:54:21 < BrainDamage> the sampling error normally is a uniform distribution centrered around your bit
2018-10-16T00:54:37 < mawk> yes
2018-10-16T00:54:42 < BrainDamage> from which you get the autocorrelation, and the weight function
2018-10-16T00:54:42 < zyp> the problem with model railroads is that real world trains have a bunch of carriages, so even at n-scale, trying to build a replica of anything real world ends up pretty fucking gigantic
2018-10-16T00:54:52 < BrainDamage> so you get a PSD
2018-10-16T00:55:20 < mawk> yes
2018-10-16T00:55:34 < BrainDamage> now the real pain is with sigma delta
2018-10-16T00:55:43 < BrainDamage> there the INPUT is a uniform distribution
2018-10-16T00:56:05 < BrainDamage> after it goes through the transfer function of the complementar sensitivity of the integrator loop, it's a clusterfuck
2018-10-16T00:57:14 < BrainDamage> mawk: the quantization error would be injected at point 4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Block_Diagram_Delta-Sigma_ADC(minor_change).svg
2018-10-16T00:57:36 < BrainDamage> and you'd need to calculate the transfer function to the point 5 ( output )
2018-10-16T00:57:45 < BrainDamage> which is the complementar sensitivity function
2018-10-16T00:58:13 < BrainDamage> from that, the noise PSD stops being a constant, and becomes a sort of sigmoid
2018-10-16T00:58:21 < BrainDamage> like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-sigma_modulation#/media/File:DeltaSigmaNoise.svg
2018-10-16T00:58:59 < BrainDamage> the integral over the area of the signal's spectrum is lower, so for same oversampling ratio, a sigma delta is more accurate in terms of ENOB
2018-10-16T01:20:34 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-16T01:20:39 < mawk> well that's what I'd intuitively try
2018-10-16T01:21:36 < mawk> not the uniform distribution sampling error
2018-10-16T01:28:19 < mawk> "In delta-sigma modulation, accuracy of the modulation is improved by passing the digital output through a 1-bit DAC [...]"
2018-10-16T01:28:27 < mawk> isn't 1-bit DAC a fancy name for comparator ?
2018-10-16T01:30:36 < BrainDamage> no, that's a 1-bit ADC
2018-10-16T01:32:51 < catphish> a 1 bit DAC is a fancy name for a shift register :)
2018-10-16T01:36:02 < mawk> ah
2018-10-16T01:43:35 < catphish> well a DAC usually has some kind of clock doesn't it? at least a latch
2018-10-16T01:44:09 < catphish> ugh, i'm writing C and java at the same time, java is painful at every step
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2018-10-16T01:45:16 < catphish> i just got a warning in my IDE for making a variable in one line and then returning it in the next, can't the compiler trivially optimize that variable out :|
2018-10-16T01:52:18 < catphish> val year = calendar.get(Calendar.YEAR) % 100 // Y2K bug is alive and well
2018-10-16T01:53:20 < zyp> catphish, what warning?
2018-10-16T01:54:27 < catphish> "variable is only used in the following return and should be inlined"
2018-10-16T01:54:48 < zyp> wat
2018-10-16T01:54:54 < zyp> is this java?
2018-10-16T01:55:17 < zyp> I don't think C would ever complain about that, C compilers optimize that :p
2018-10-16T01:55:18 < catphish> yes java
2018-10-16T01:55:20 < catphish> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/31733811/local-variables-before-return-statements-does-it-matter
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2018-10-16T02:00:36 < catphish> i've placated it
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2018-10-16T02:21:20 < emeb> anybody got a favorite 3.5mm right-angle jack?
2018-10-16T02:22:08 < emeb> stereo (TRS), no normals needed...
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2018-10-16T05:11:59 < dongs> hello doges
2018-10-16T05:12:13 < dongs> emeb_mac: you mean chinamake thing?
2018-10-16T05:12:44 < dongs> PJ-327A
2018-10-16T05:12:49 < dongs> is a commonly cloned chianthing
2018-10-16T05:13:15 < dongs> it is SMT
2018-10-16T05:16:20 < dongs> or there's a dip version by CUI thats also cloned and comes in pink
2018-10-16T05:17:59 < emeb_mac> dongs: any old 3.5mm
2018-10-16T05:18:14 < emeb_mac> I'll probably just go with a CUI cheapo from Mouser
2018-10-16T05:19:03 < emeb_mac> I don't like SMT jacks - too easy to pull off the board. PTH is better.
2018-10-16T05:20:57 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/SOlDZLi.jpg this is the common china shit
2018-10-16T05:22:11 < dongs> SJ1
2018-10-16T05:22:15 < dongs> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-inc/SJ1-3535NG-GR/CP1-3535NG-GR-ND/2295993
2018-10-16T05:22:52 < dongs> NG-GR
2018-10-16T05:22:54 < dongs> more like NIGGER
2018-10-16T05:23:07 < emeb_mac> dongs: yep - that's what I'm going with. CUI has that same footprint.
2018-10-16T05:23:26 < dongs> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-inc/SJ1-3535NG-PI/CP1-3535NG-PI-ND/2295994 there's the hot pink version
2018-10-16T05:23:50 < dongs> iirc those things are literally like < 5c in china
2018-10-16T05:23:54 < dongs> cloned to death
2018-10-16T05:23:59 < emeb_mac> of course
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2018-10-16T05:27:29 < dongs> ragequitter.
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2018-10-16T05:46:57 < englishman> blame the mac
2018-10-16T05:48:31 < dongs> yep
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2018-10-16T05:50:55 < englishman> old pal of mine got a heart stent
2018-10-16T05:51:01 < englishman> they shove it in thru the wrist now
2018-10-16T05:51:04 < englishman> no longer thru the groin
2018-10-16T05:51:06 < englishman> fucking cool
2018-10-16T05:51:58 < englishman> the arm is numbed from the elbow down, no other anesthetic needed
2018-10-16T05:59:02 < emeb_mac> nice
2018-10-16T05:59:24 < emeb_mac> my bro had a stent done about 2yrs ago. groin.
2018-10-16T06:00:23 < emeb_mac> cool to see the tech advancing
2018-10-16T06:08:47 < branjb> http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1539657568765.jpg
2018-10-16T06:13:00 < emeb_mac> 1/2020 > 0
2018-10-16T06:23:52 < emeb_mac> wow - Paul Allen died.
2018-10-16T06:25:50 < englishman> yep
2018-10-16T06:26:11 < englishman> i hope someone takes care of his airplanes
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2018-10-16T07:34:21 < qyx> BrainDamage jpa- found aes-gcm-siv/hs1-siv and aez
2018-10-16T07:34:57 < jpa-> that sounds like an infectious disease
2018-10-16T07:39:04 < jpa-> but yeah, looks nize
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2018-10-16T07:48:41 < qyx> wtf https://github.com/nmathewson/aez_test_vectors/blob/master/encrypt.c#L49
2018-10-16T07:53:44 < jpa-> strange
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2018-10-16T09:03:00 < tekko> o/
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2018-10-16T10:53:20 < Steffanx> Is it raining?
2018-10-16T10:57:24 < Steffanx> And for stvn at 7/11
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2018-10-16T11:42:32 < kakimir> oh shiet
2018-10-16T11:42:49 < kakimir> pro code instinct
2018-10-16T11:43:22 < kakimir> I opened the code and first thing I do I find the bug
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2018-10-16T11:44:36 < kakimir> //i2c_busy_loop_wait();//Actually there is no reason to wait.
2018-10-16T11:45:22 < kakimir> ickhually it let's i2c write to leave
2018-10-16T11:45:43 < kakimir> and then code following it messes up the buffer
2018-10-16T11:50:32 < kakimir> I mean I open code - go straight to i2c.c and look i2c write and there it is
2018-10-16T11:52:19 < kakimir> it didn't fix it :o
2018-10-16T11:59:20 < kakimir> I need one more probe
2018-10-16T11:59:22 < aandrew> aandrew.pro_level = INT_MAX;
2018-10-16T12:03:06 < BrainDamage> pro level or probe level?
2018-10-16T12:08:13 < kakimir> what is your probe record?
2018-10-16T12:08:38 < kakimir> I wonder if I could actually just use logic analyzer of this scope for I2C
2018-10-16T12:11:27 < invzim> PROS!  Doing a bit of optimization - any reason to keep LED's at 0805 instead of going 0603?
2018-10-16T12:13:38 < invzim> in general or for leds?
2018-10-16T12:14:21 < invzim> Most of my stuff is 0603 except for some caps and leds
2018-10-16T12:14:28 < invzim> caps have a reason, led's is just history
2018-10-16T12:15:06 < invzim> allreet, could be easier on the pnp I guess
2018-10-16T12:16:34 < kakimir> garbage scope
2018-10-16T12:16:57 < kakimir> trigger doesn't work like it should
2018-10-16T12:19:42 < kakimir> no
2018-10-16T12:21:48 < Steffanx> DID HE SELL, CRT?
2018-10-16T12:21:55 < Steffanx> Oops capslock
2018-10-16T12:22:01 < kakimir> fuck hell this scope
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2018-10-16T12:28:24 < kakimir> it would need shout interface
2018-10-16T12:34:21 < kakimir> it's repeated start problem
2018-10-16T12:34:37 < kakimir> it writes command twice instead of one time
2018-10-16T12:39:19 < kakimir> okay I need to set start for repeated start
2018-10-16T12:42:17 < kakimir> if I don't set it it will just butt out DAT until something else happens
2018-10-16T12:48:20 < kakimir> I think if it's repeated start I'll try to "pause" i2c then set repeated start
2018-10-16T12:48:36 < kakimir> next i2c call will load task with new parameters
2018-10-16T12:48:48 < kakimir> then "unpause" i2c
2018-10-16T12:49:40 < kakimir> do repeated starts need to be addressed always to same slave?
2018-10-16T12:51:11 < kakimir> While SI is set, the low period of the serial clock on the SCL line is stretched, and the
2018-10-16T12:51:14 < kakimir> serial transfer is suspended. When SCL is HIGH, it is unaffected by the state of the SI flag.
2018-10-16T12:51:17 < kakimir> SI must be reset by software, by writing a 1 to the SIC bit in the CONCLR register.
2018-10-16T12:51:25 < kakimir> I found my loophole
2018-10-16T12:55:13 < kakimir> conditional clearing of SI bit in handler
2018-10-16T12:55:20 < veverak> damn it
2018-10-16T12:55:22 < veverak> hmm
2018-10-16T12:55:45 < veverak> for some reason, stm32 as i2c master, holds the clk line down
2018-10-16T12:56:08 < veverak> after "Setup write to device" packet, followed by ACK from slave
2018-10-16T12:59:20 < qyx> veverak: its a known problem afaik
2018-10-16T12:59:59 < veverak> qyx: ti is?
2018-10-16T13:00:19 < veverak> *it
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2018-10-16T13:01:59 < Ecco> Hi
2018-10-16T13:02:34 < veverak> qyx: I found the "STM32L432KB/KC and STM32L442KC device limitations
2018-10-16T13:02:45 < veverak> document from TS, but the error described there does not seem like it
2018-10-16T13:02:56 < veverak> P.S: software reset of i2c peripheral solved the problem perfectly
2018-10-16T13:03:13 < Ecco> I'm using a matrix keypad on an STM32. Is it possible to drive a dedicated BOOT0 pin using one of the keys?
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2018-10-16T13:06:34 < veverak> qyx: do you have any more information?
2018-10-16T13:08:15 < qyx> no atm, I challenget it in the past
2018-10-16T13:08:41 < qyx> it was caused by erroneous communication and slaves being held in some intermediate state
2018-10-16T13:08:47 < PaulFertser> veverak: what part? Have you cheked the errata?
2018-10-16T13:09:19 < qyx> the bus had to be unbricked by unconfiguring the gpio, making 9 scl pulses and configuring again
2018-10-16T13:09:36 < qyx> iirc even the linux kernel has such patch for stucked scl
2018-10-16T13:11:12 < veverak> PaulFertser: yeah
2018-10-16T13:11:58 < veverak> PaulFertser: the errata says that the erros may happen in: slave-mode or multimaster-mode
2018-10-16T13:12:06 < veverak> I am ni master-mode 
2018-10-16T13:12:09 < veverak> *in
2018-10-16T13:12:30 < veverak> qyx: interesting, I am working on this project for some time and this did not happend yet
2018-10-16T13:12:32 < veverak> weird
2018-10-16T13:12:44 < qyx> related https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v4.9/source/drivers/i2c/i2c-core.c#L785
2018-10-16T13:12:50 < qyx> but not sure if this is exactly the issue
2018-10-16T13:13:12 < qyx> on F4, I solved it like this
2018-10-16T13:13:20 < qyx> software reset of the i2c bus didn't help
2018-10-16T13:13:27 < qyx> as it was the slave that was stuck, not the master
2018-10-16T13:13:55 < veverak> hmm
2018-10-16T13:14:58 < kakimir> SI trick doesn't work because it will be stuck to interrupt service routine
2018-10-16T13:15:40 < kakimir> I have nasty idea
2018-10-16T13:16:05 < kakimir> I'll disable interrupt for I2C inside the ISR
2018-10-16T13:19:03 < kakimir> me nasty
2018-10-16T13:20:11 < Steffanx> This is lpc i2c right?
2018-10-16T13:22:03 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-16T13:31:41 < kakimir> sin sin sin
2018-10-16T13:33:47 < Steffanx> Idk the red guy.
2018-10-16T13:34:31 < Steffanx> Pass
2018-10-16T13:34:49 < Steffanx> Is it a meme?
2018-10-16T13:37:33 < Steffanx> CN was a paid thing when i was a kid
2018-10-16T13:37:48 < Steffanx> And before that i didnt really enjoy watching it
2018-10-16T13:38:04 < Steffanx> Before it moves behind a paywall i mean
2018-10-16T13:38:07 < Steffanx> Moved*
2018-10-16T13:38:13 < Steffanx> L
2018-10-16T13:38:41 < kakimir> Steffanx: it's working
2018-10-16T13:38:42 < Steffanx> Crap like cow and chicken. That ed edd and eddy or something. Meh
2018-10-16T13:38:58 < Steffanx> Only dexter was nice
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2018-10-16T13:41:13 < zyp> I finished watching maniac last night
2018-10-16T13:41:29 < zyp> episodes 1-3 and 10 was nice, 4-9 was kinda wtf
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2018-10-16T14:23:55 < kakimir> fuck
2018-10-16T14:24:03 < kakimir> I'm done with this for today
2018-10-16T14:25:35 < kakimir> it works fine otherwise but after repeated start it does go to switch case master transmitter data transmitted and ack received
2018-10-16T14:25:42 < kakimir> and rotates counter
2018-10-16T14:26:13 < kakimir> so now read after write results into one byte less read
2018-10-16T14:27:29 < kakimir> oh oh oh
2018-10-16T14:27:36 < kakimir> I forgot to set STA
2018-10-16T14:34:07 < aandrew> amazing how much fuckery something as simple as I2C can cause, eh?
2018-10-16T14:34:54 < kakimir> i set sta still nothing
2018-10-16T14:35:13 < kakimir> I can do workaround for this but not now
2018-10-16T14:35:19 < kakimir> later
2018-10-16T14:35:53 < Laurenceb> https://postimg.cc/nXQQ8qVC
2018-10-16T14:36:18 < Laurenceb> copy muh i2c codez
2018-10-16T14:36:24 < Laurenceb> they work... sort of
2018-10-16T14:36:36 < Laurenceb> as long as you dont put breakpoint in the wrong place
2018-10-16T14:36:49 < Laurenceb> oh dear
2018-10-16T14:37:03 < Laurenceb> but surely their vhdl skillz are better than st
2018-10-16T14:37:12 < Laurenceb> and its not full of hardware bugs
2018-10-16T14:38:34 < kakimir> documentation is suboptimal
2018-10-16T14:38:50 < kakimir> just enough for you to assume the rest
2018-10-16T14:39:07 < Laurenceb> tfw pissbaby https://postimg.cc/Cdgyb0nt
2018-10-16T14:45:30 < Laurenceb> https://postimg.cc/tYsLj4Ks
2018-10-16T14:45:34 < Ecco_> What happens if the BOOT0 pin is left floating?
2018-10-16T14:45:52 < Ecco_> I assume there is a pull-(up-or-down) somwhere, but I can't find it in the datasheet
2018-10-16T14:53:48 < karlp> huh, current at 1Mbps 3.3mA, 10Mbps 3.7mA, 100Mbps jumps up to 11mA
2018-10-16T14:54:17 < kakimir> omg I figured it out maybe
2018-10-16T14:54:33 < zyp> karlp, current for what?
2018-10-16T14:54:49 < karlp> si 8642 isolator
2018-10-16T14:54:50 < kakimir> I read i2c status until it says it's start condition status
2018-10-16T14:55:00 < karlp> doesn'tmatter much to me, just through it was an interesting jump
2018-10-16T14:55:09 < zyp> how much at steady state?
2018-10-16T14:55:13 < karlp> just budgeting shit to make sure things don't melt.
2018-10-16T14:55:30 < Laurenceb>  *grabs popcorn* https://postimg.cc/jLjZV3Jv
2018-10-16T14:55:36 < karlp> 1.8/4.4 depeneding on high/low.
2018-10-16T14:56:02 < mawk> don't current requirements at higher and higher speed grows exponentially ?
2018-10-16T14:56:14 < mawk> intuitively it seems correct, for the capacity of the line
2018-10-16T14:56:40 < karlp> well, 1Mbps->10mBps is an order of magnitude for very little change in current
2018-10-16T14:56:53 < karlp> 10-100 is same size change, but way more increase in current.
2018-10-16T14:57:16 < karlp> anyway, I'm well under 10
2018-10-16T14:58:01 < zyp> mawk, in general, current consumption for digital stuff tends to be linear with the clock
2018-10-16T14:58:12 < mawk> ah
2018-10-16T14:58:16 < mawk> weird
2018-10-16T14:58:56 < Steffanx> Recitifier.
2018-10-16T14:58:57 < zyp> most power use is during switching, when the transistors are not fully open or closed
2018-10-16T14:59:41 < zyp> a transistor that's fully open has no voltage drop across it, a transistor that's fully closed has no current through it, in either case the product is zero
2018-10-16T14:59:50 < mawk> yes
2018-10-16T14:59:53 < zyp> but when switching, both current and voltage drop is nonzero, thus power
2018-10-16T15:00:17 < aandrew> < Ecco_> I assume there is a pull-(up-or-down) somwhere, but I can't find it in the datasheet
2018-10-16T15:00:20 < aandrew> that is a really bad assumption to make
2018-10-16T15:00:41 < zyp> nonideal transistors of course leaks a bit too, so it's not entirely zero at steady state
2018-10-16T15:01:08 < mawk> for that yeah, but I was thinking about the traces/ethernet cables/whatever capacity
2018-10-16T15:01:10 < mawk> that's linear too ?
2018-10-16T15:02:50 < zyp> in what sense?
2018-10-16T15:02:57 < zyp> I'm not sure what you're thinking
2018-10-16T15:03:08 < mawk> if we say for instance we want a rise time of at most 1/3 the clock period, we have a higher bound i = Cdu/dt < CVdd/(1/3T)
2018-10-16T15:03:22 < mawk> so yeah the current requirement is linear with the clock frequency
2018-10-16T15:03:33 < mawk> at least linear
2018-10-16T15:04:00 < mawk> well I'm thinking about the current required to fill all the parasitic capacities on the circuit
2018-10-16T15:06:40 < zyp> oh
2018-10-16T15:06:52 < zyp> is that even significant?
2018-10-16T15:07:02 < mawk> I've read so recently yeah
2018-10-16T15:07:09 < mawk> for UART in higher speeds
2018-10-16T15:07:18 < mawk> my higher bound calculation isn't very mathematical
2018-10-16T15:07:23 < zyp> heh
2018-10-16T15:07:24 < mawk> I hope BrainDamage won't look at it
2018-10-16T15:07:33 < zyp> why uart? uart is one of the slower protocols there are :p
2018-10-16T15:07:41 < mawk> yeah I was just reading a documentation at random
2018-10-16T15:08:02 < mawk> and that capacity thing seemed interesting
2018-10-16T15:08:42 < BrainDamage> in order to preserve the edge information of a singal, the lowpass has to sit at least at 2/trise
2018-10-16T15:09:23 < BrainDamage> this being taken fron the 2nd corner of the spectral content of the trapezoidal wave
2018-10-16T15:10:14 < aandrew> lookit BrainDamage getting all theoretical on us
2018-10-16T15:10:31 < aandrew> < zyp> is that even significant?
2018-10-16T15:10:32 < aandrew> definitely can be
2018-10-16T15:10:46 < BrainDamage> I'd argue that 2/trise is much trivial and usable than setting up the diff eq
2018-10-16T15:10:51 < aandrew> why do you think big fet/igbt drivers have to be able to source/sink so much damn current
2018-10-16T15:11:57 < aandrew> it's funny, MOST of the time I'm slowing signals down for EMI/overshoot reasons
2018-10-16T15:12:05 < aandrew> it's rare I have trouble with signals being too slow
2018-10-16T15:12:23 < BrainDamage> depends how accurate is your sampling clock and settling time
2018-10-16T15:12:35 < BrainDamage> generally clocks and settling time are pretty accurate for low speed shit
2018-10-16T15:12:52 < BrainDamage> when the clock jitter starts to become significant, then it can start sampling on the slope
2018-10-16T15:13:11 < aandrew> *nods*
2018-10-16T15:13:17 < aandrew> what's the source of all of this discussion?
2018-10-16T15:13:31 < aandrew> we usually just talk shit about britain and look at pictures of cats here
2018-10-16T15:13:52 < BrainDamage> I've seen my nick pinged and looked about ~1page up
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2018-10-16T15:15:11 < runjutsu> >=( useless cavemen. 32-bit is obsolete.
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2018-10-16T15:15:33 < runjutsu> and most of you are probably in here for the money
2018-10-16T15:15:57 < aandrew> yep
2018-10-16T15:16:00 < Steffanx> Shit what did i do? Tor -_-
2018-10-16T15:17:06 < Steffanx> Are you upset because allen died, runjutsu
2018-10-16T15:17:30 < zyp> runjutsu, where can I get money?
2018-10-16T15:17:40 < runjutsu> yes :( it has been a really hard time the last couple of minutes since I found out
2018-10-16T15:18:00 < runjutsu> zyp: I pee on people for money but I wouldn't recommend it if you aren't into that sort of thing
2018-10-16T15:18:27 < runjutsu> Haohmaru: 8-bit is dead m8 :(
2018-10-16T15:21:12 < zyp> runjutsu, peeing or being peed on?
2018-10-16T15:21:31 < zyp> which pays better?
2018-10-16T15:21:31 < runjutsu> I do both
2018-10-16T15:21:44 < runjutsu> peeing on people if you look at the time spent on it
2018-10-16T15:22:06 < runjutsu> just getting peed on have costs that people usually don't take into account
2018-10-16T15:22:45 < runjutsu> You get in there, pee on them, and you get to the next customer quickly. And they usually don't want to cuddle afterwards.
2018-10-16T15:23:03 < runjutsu> yes. special pee-pants and stuff and new business models.
2018-10-16T15:23:24 < runjutsu> we sell a virtual pee app
2018-10-16T15:23:31 < zyp> peecoin
2018-10-16T15:23:57 < karlp> what's reflected ripple current?
2018-10-16T15:28:01 < jpa-> karlp: you mean in electronics or in runjutsu's business?
2018-10-16T15:29:22 < runjutsu> sometimes I do it for free but some ungrateful idiots call the police on you for it, they probably think that they don't need to pay for it if they do that but they don't realize that I was doing it for free in the first place
2018-10-16T15:30:37 < runjutsu> I'm shitting all over myself today
2018-10-16T15:30:44 < runjutsu> 'considering going for a k-line 
2018-10-16T15:30:51 < runjutsu> only that will get me off today
2018-10-16T15:34:25 < runjutsu> no, that takes me to reality
2018-10-16T15:34:30 < runjutsu> just like any other loser I rather stay online
2018-10-16T15:34:38 < runjutsu> I'm too curled
2018-10-16T15:34:43 < runjutsu> and I feel too sorry for myself
2018-10-16T15:34:49 < runjutsu> but I'm also genuinely tired so.
2018-10-16T15:34:57 < runjutsu> I'm not pushing as hard as I could though
2018-10-16T15:35:07 < runjutsu> I'm also sleepy.
2018-10-16T15:35:37 < BrainDamage> hiring a tranny at the local strip for 2h?
2018-10-16T15:35:50 < karlp> jpa-: was looking in general, but foudn it later.
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2018-10-16T16:06:56 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/PczrKtY
2018-10-16T16:07:06 < bitmask> less and less acrylic
2018-10-16T16:09:15 < Steffanx> Still no camera
2018-10-16T16:09:24 < Laurenceb> looks trumpian
2018-10-16T16:10:42 < mawk> my upper bound was right, the exponential is convex
2018-10-16T16:10:48 < mawk> always below its chords
2018-10-16T16:10:53 < Laurenceb> the kang of england
2018-10-16T16:11:00 < mawk> my mathematical honor is saved
2018-10-16T16:14:40 < mawk> now is the current always an exponential, that's another question
2018-10-16T16:15:10 < mawk> for the simplest differential equations, yes
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2018-10-16T16:18:47 < karlp> englishman: this one says it has "edison connector" https://shop.technexion.com/system-on-modules/pico/pico-modules/picoimx6g205r512e04.html ?
2018-10-16T16:19:33 < BrainDamage> mawk: current is not always an exponential, you get (complex) exponential solutions only when the derivative is proportional to the current value
2018-10-16T16:19:57 < BrainDamage> mawk: ie, current sources won't give you an exp current :p
2018-10-16T16:20:08 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-16T16:20:17 < mawk> but I counted that in exponential
2018-10-16T16:20:47 < mawk> it's less forbidden to use Aexp(0) as an exponential than some other tricn
2018-10-16T16:20:49 < Sadale> I wonder if jumper caps would cause any issue with connections.
2018-10-16T16:20:55 < mawk> trick
2018-10-16T16:21:44 < BrainDamage> you can have linear current solutions too, not just constant
2018-10-16T16:22:05 < mawk> right
2018-10-16T16:22:20 < mawk> I've never thought of current ramps but nothing forbids it
2018-10-16T16:22:37 < BrainDamage> coils produce current ramps if they integrate constant voltage
2018-10-16T16:23:14 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-_dsNTZch0&feature=youtu.be
2018-10-16T16:23:32 < BrainDamage> you're right though that the other cases can be written as a sum of exponential functions
2018-10-16T16:23:46 < BrainDamage> ps. you're reinventing the laplace transform here
2018-10-16T16:24:26 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-16T16:24:49 < BrainDamage> because you're projecting into moments space, the exp will be transformed into polynomials which represent the exp's coefficients
2018-10-16T16:26:25 < Laurenceb> https://www.imgoat.com/uploads/a79ea27c27/154779.jpg
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2018-10-16T16:32:02 < Steffanx> Better car than a vauxhall corsa Laurenceb 
2018-10-16T16:32:08 -!- PeterM [bgdwiepp@115-69-25-80-cpe.spintel.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2018-10-16T16:32:16 < Laurenceb> they call it the Elizabeth Warren
2018-10-16T16:32:43 < zyp> Steffanx, is Laurenceb driving a corsa
2018-10-16T16:32:47 < zyp> ?
2018-10-16T16:33:21 < mawk> having an exponential isn't enough for my argument, it still needs to be convex; that excludes the wiggly complex stuff
2018-10-16T16:33:27 < Steffanx> Yes iirc he said that, zyp
2018-10-16T16:33:30 < Laurenceb> zyp: yes
2018-10-16T16:33:36 < zyp> okay
2018-10-16T16:33:39 < Laurenceb> https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7427/26823207891_99f2f8faa1_b.jpg
2018-10-16T16:34:02 < BrainDamage> need tinted glasses
2018-10-16T16:34:11 < BrainDamage> and view obscuring decals
2018-10-16T16:34:18 < mawk> corsa sounds like corsica, that french separatist region full of terrorists separatists that have a beheaded black guy on their flag
2018-10-16T16:34:37 < BrainDamage> corsa means running in italian
2018-10-16T16:34:40 < mawk> the official flag, not the terrorist one
2018-10-16T16:34:50 < BrainDamage> but it's spanish, probably close enough
2018-10-16T16:35:02 < mawk> I expect their language to be close to italian, but I don't know exactly
2018-10-16T16:35:06 < mawk> it's full of weird accents
2018-10-16T16:35:28 < Laurenceb> mine looks more like http://www.corsasport.co.uk/carimages/4322/rusty1_medium.jpg
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2018-10-16T16:35:42 < Laurenceb> http://www.corsasport.co.uk/carimages/4322/rusty2_medium.jpg accurate
2018-10-16T16:36:12 < mawk> you googled "rusty corsa"
2018-10-16T16:37:46 < Laurenceb> yes lol
2018-10-16T16:38:05 < Laurenceb> pretty accurate depictions of my car
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2018-10-16T16:51:31 < bitmask> damn I think my car battery is damaged
2018-10-16T16:51:53 < bitmask> I charged it inside to 12.60V yesterday and 24 hours later its at 12.50
2018-10-16T16:53:10 < zyp> is that abnormal?
2018-10-16T16:53:45 < bitmask> I thought but no?
2018-10-16T16:53:57 < zyp> also, 12.6 sounds pretty low
2018-10-16T16:54:20 < bitmask> well I dont quite understand how lead acid batteries work.  while charging its 14.4 but when left sitting for a while its down to 12.6
2018-10-16T16:54:50 < zyp> I'm not an expert on lead acid either, but yes, that sounds normal
2018-10-16T16:54:57 < bitmask> ok cool then
2018-10-16T16:55:08 < bitmask> i'll give it a shot and put it back in the car later
2018-10-16T16:55:21 < zyp> how much charge did the battery take?
2018-10-16T16:55:46 < bitmask> a lot, I charged it for like 16 hours
2018-10-16T16:55:56 < zyp> at which amperage?
2018-10-16T16:56:04 < zyp> everything is relative
2018-10-16T16:56:08 < bitmask> started at 2, then went up to 4 and then ended at 2
2018-10-16T16:56:23 < bitmask> I know its low but I wanted to be safe because the car has been sitting for like a year
2018-10-16T16:56:29 < bitmask> and I wasnt smart and left the battery connected
2018-10-16T16:57:10 < zyp> in other words, some tens of amp-hours went somewhere
2018-10-16T16:57:25 < bitmask> yes
2018-10-16T16:57:34 < bitmask> aside from the drop it seems to be good
2018-10-16T16:57:48 < bitmask> charged without a problem and everything, 
2018-10-16T16:57:49 < zyp> I wouldn't think too much of it
2018-10-16T16:57:52 < bitmask> ok
2018-10-16T16:57:53 < bitmask> cool
2018-10-16T16:58:21 < zyp> if the batter is dying, you'll notice when it starts having problems running the starter
2018-10-16T16:59:22 < zyp> when you get there, just replace it, car batteries are cheap
2018-10-16T17:01:19 < bitmask> hows your printer coming along btw
2018-10-16T17:01:35 < zyp> haven't done anything about it for months
2018-10-16T17:01:40 < Laurenceb> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14844
2018-10-16T17:01:42 < Laurenceb> nice
2018-10-16T17:01:43 < zyp> been busy with other stuff
2018-10-16T17:01:45 < bitmask> ahh
2018-10-16T17:03:02 < Laurenceb> 64hz infrared
2018-10-16T17:03:59 < aandrew> wow
2018-10-16T17:04:32 < aandrew> 6L board, 10day turn, 4/4, 8mil drill: $675 for 10pcs
2018-10-16T17:04:44 < aandrew> same board, same turn, same specs but with blind vias: $2900
2018-10-16T17:05:18 < zyp> sounds reasonable
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2018-10-16T17:07:02 < aandrew> and to make that a 5 day turn it goes up another 400
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2018-10-16T17:18:44 < mawk> that seems expensive aandrew
2018-10-16T17:19:49 < mawk> I wonder how liberalism is handling all these niche markets
2018-10-16T17:20:22 < mawk> regarding cartels agreeing on prices
2018-10-16T17:27:58 < zyp> $675 doesn't sound unreasonable for a 6L prototype run with those specs
2018-10-16T17:28:21 < zyp> and blind vias adds a bunch of process steps
2018-10-16T17:29:18 < zyp> if you only have normal vias, they drill and plate the board once in the end
2018-10-16T17:29:35 < zyp> with blind vias, they need to have drilling and plating steps in between bonding of the layers
2018-10-16T17:33:52 < aandrew> yes, I totally get why the price is so different. they're essentially making three PCBs and gluing them together with a great deal of precision
2018-10-16T17:34:26 < aandrew> and actually that is very close to the price (3x simple)
2018-10-16T17:41:07 < mawk> it is from China ?
2018-10-16T17:42:03 < aandrew> no, this is in Canada
2018-10-16T17:42:14 < aandrew> well no, it's a Canadian company with German mfg for the fancy shit
2018-10-16T17:44:13 < mawk> ah, the price seems more reasonable then
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2018-10-16T17:53:43 < Laurenceb> wew trustzone stm32
2018-10-16T17:54:16 < karlp> well, about time
2018-10-16T17:54:54 < karlp> hooray, new L series part
2018-10-16T17:55:03 < Laurenceb> and it can run usb at 1.8v, useful
2018-10-16T17:57:25 < karlp> no RM yet?
2018-10-16T17:57:33 < Laurenceb> cant see it
2018-10-16T18:00:18 < karlp> better than twice as power efficent as L1 at low end
2018-10-16T18:03:17 < karlp> only 9 external adc channels in the 48pin packages still
2018-10-16T18:03:19 < karlp> fuckers
2018-10-16T18:06:08 < Laurenceb> looks like L1 style PGA/op-amps
2018-10-16T18:06:27 < Laurenceb> those are actually pretty low noise/leakage
2018-10-16T18:06:42 < karlp> they were on l4 too weren't they?
2018-10-16T18:06:45 < Laurenceb> worked quite well for a photodiode front end when I tried with L1 discovery
2018-10-16T18:06:47 < Laurenceb> yeah
2018-10-16T18:07:00 < karlp> where do you see usb at 1.8V?
2018-10-16T18:07:13 < Laurenceb> in the press release
2018-10-16T18:07:30 < Laurenceb> the PHY is powered by Vbus, but everything else can run off 1.8
2018-10-16T18:10:49 < karlp> ah, ok.
2018-10-16T18:10:56 < karlp> is there a nucleo for this?
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2018-10-16T18:57:19 < kakimir> recommend EEPROM
2018-10-16T18:57:26 < kakimir> cheap
2018-10-16T18:57:31 < kakimir> easy to use
2018-10-16T18:57:48 < kakimir> I need to store like 4 bytes
2018-10-16T18:58:10 < Steffanx> Internal flash.
2018-10-16T18:58:19 < kakimir> maybe
2018-10-16T18:58:22 < kakimir> not easy to use
2018-10-16T18:58:28 < Steffanx> Easy
2018-10-16T18:58:37 < aandrew> 24LC01
2018-10-16T18:58:39 < karlp> at24l00 shit
2018-10-16T18:58:40 < Steffanx> Better than i2c eeprom :P
2018-10-16T18:58:42 < aandrew> digikey it
2018-10-16T18:58:52 < kakimir> any risk to corrupt program mem?
2018-10-16T18:58:57 < karlp> use an L1 part instead of F part?
2018-10-16T18:59:05 < karlp> use a kinetis part with flexnvram instead of an st part?
2018-10-16T18:59:20 < aandrew> I'd rather eat shit than use Kinetis
2018-10-16T18:59:28 < Steffanx> kakimir used lpc kakimir 
2018-10-16T18:59:34 < Steffanx> karlp*
2018-10-16T18:59:41 < Steffanx> Uses, damnit 
2018-10-16T18:59:58 < aandrew> any more corrections to your 4 word sentence? lol
2018-10-16T19:00:07 < Steffanx> My kinetis experience wasnt too bad.
2018-10-16T19:00:15 < karlp> freeeeee scaling
2018-10-16T19:00:15 < Steffanx> No typos in that sentence.
2018-10-16T19:00:20 < karlp> wasn't
2018-10-16T19:00:36 < karlp> weren't no typos no suh
2018-10-16T19:00:39 < kakimir> idk if it can get easier than use spi eeprom?
2018-10-16T19:00:43 < Laurenceb> wew brick mafia
2018-10-16T19:00:47 < Steffanx> Thats not a typo. Thats intentional
2018-10-16T19:00:58 < Laurenceb> they wont talk to me and have blocked my phone now
2018-10-16T19:01:05 < Laurenceb> I just wanted to buy some bricks
2018-10-16T19:01:13 < karlp> spi or i2c or microwire, whatever floats your boat
2018-10-16T19:01:31 < aandrew> i2c eeprom is pretty easy, unless you're kakimir 
2018-10-16T19:01:41 < Steffanx> Laurenceb you should learn when to troll and when not to troll
2018-10-16T19:01:48 < Laurenceb> ikr
2018-10-16T19:02:17 < Laurenceb> I was trying to get them to sell direct when they usually sell to merchants who mark up
2018-10-16T19:04:21 < Steffanx> Just look at some of your crap and shit some bricks
2018-10-16T19:08:50 < Laurenceb> https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=sYMRY_1539700922
2018-10-16T19:08:53 < Laurenceb> meow
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2018-10-16T19:15:26 < kakimir> spi would be okay
2018-10-16T19:15:37 < kakimir> or i2c
2018-10-16T19:15:47 < kakimir> if it doesn't require repeated start
2018-10-16T19:16:55 < kakimir> repeated start works if I add delay
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2018-10-16T19:17:43 < ds2> *gasp* you mean you can just put in a different DTB?!??!?
2018-10-16T19:17:51 < ds2> oops
2018-10-16T19:18:02 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yfUJvUFik4
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2018-10-16T19:46:42 < englishman> aandrew: forward from dongs https://i.imgur.com/8mCCbYX.png
2018-10-16T19:49:01 < Steffanx> *aanjew
2018-10-16T19:50:36 < Steffanx> dongs cant talk for himself no more englishman?
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2018-10-16T19:53:18 < aandrew> hahahahahahahahahaha
2018-10-16T19:53:32 < aandrew> transjewnder
2018-10-16T19:54:55 < englishman> aandrew: which fab?
2018-10-16T19:55:13 < englishman> give me the gerbers i will quote local bros
2018-10-16T19:55:35 < aandrew> I have to come up with the panel first
2018-10-16T19:55:37 < englishman> and i can request hot pink silkscreen
2018-10-16T19:55:43 < aandrew> this was pcb ultimate vision
2018-10-16T19:55:48 < aandrew> the one with the website from 1995
2018-10-16T19:55:49 < englishman> do you need panels for sample run
2018-10-16T19:55:55 < aandrew> yes
2018-10-16T19:55:57 < englishman> they all have 1995 websites
2018-10-16T19:56:03 < englishman> i dont have any website at all
2018-10-16T19:56:21 < englishman> just rails and fids or actual panels
2018-10-16T19:56:29 < aandrew> a panel has 1 digitizer board, 5 sensor boards and a pair of little low-tech interface boards
2018-10-16T19:56:35 < englishman> ah
2018-10-16T19:56:39 < aandrew> I could probably just grid it, you're right
2018-10-16T19:56:41 < aandrew> I usually mill it
2018-10-16T19:56:46 < aandrew> with mousebites and shit
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2018-10-16T20:03:54 < englishman> anyway that price seems about right
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2018-10-16T20:30:21 < upgrdman> that RAGE when altium slows to a crawl, it's too late to save, and windows BSODs... FUCK
2018-10-16T20:30:37 < zyp> haha
2018-10-16T20:31:23 < upgrdman> Stop Code: DRIVER_POWER_STATE_FAILURE ... lemme guess, intel graphics drivers shit the bed
2018-10-16T20:32:12 < antto> aww
2018-10-16T20:32:15 < Steffanx> whio uses intel crap anyway?
2018-10-16T20:32:22 < antto> me
2018-10-16T20:32:30 < upgrdman> Steffanx, integrated gfx on surfrace bro 4
2018-10-16T20:32:35 < Steffanx> except for you, antto
2018-10-16T20:32:47 < antto> but i bought a radeon so i can kicad bett0r
2018-10-16T20:33:23 < antto> also quake3 bett0r
2018-10-16T20:33:47 < aandrew> upgrdman: that sucks man
2018-10-16T20:33:52 < antto> much fps, very frags
2018-10-16T20:34:06 < aandrew> I have not had a single altium crash that prevented a save since I put a buttload of memory on the VM running altium
2018-10-16T20:34:18 < aandrew> you're running altium on a surface?
2018-10-16T20:34:19 < aandrew> interesting
2018-10-16T20:34:19 < upgrdman> aandrew, yes. lost ~2hrs of pcb work. oh well, good thing im paid by the hour, not by the project
2018-10-16T20:34:28 < aandrew> upgrdman: that sucks, drives me mad
2018-10-16T20:34:42 < aandrew> especially since altium will usually die after you've just figured out some nasty routing
2018-10-16T20:34:42 < antto> eh, don't you click "Save" ?
2018-10-16T20:34:48 < aandrew> I've gotten used to hitting ^s a lot
2018-10-16T20:35:01 < aandrew> and I have the auto backups too but haven't actually had that work for me when I needed it to
2018-10-16T20:35:04 < upgrdman> and ya, i use a surface bro 4. not too bad, i wish the new bro 6 had usb-c, so i guess i'll wait until the next bro comes out to upgrd
2018-10-16T20:35:26 < aandrew> you're using it just as a computer and have a real kb/monitor/mouse?
2018-10-16T20:35:28 < upgrdman> but ya, my bro 4 runs well. docked, driving a 4k60 and 1080p60 monitors
2018-10-16T20:35:32 < upgrdman> yes of course
2018-10-16T20:35:33 < aandrew> yeah docked ok
2018-10-16T20:35:51 < upgrdman> pretty sweet having 3 displays driven by a high-end "tablet"
2018-10-16T20:35:55 < aandrew> I usually use altium just on one monitor but rdp will let me expose two. haven't tried
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2018-10-16T20:36:00 < upgrdman> gets warm, but not bad
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2018-10-16T20:55:38 < Steffanx> What does the "bro" 6 has instead of usb-c upgrdman ?
2018-10-16T20:56:47 < upgrdman> Steffanx, same old. mini-dp
2018-10-16T20:57:04 < upgrdman> i want usb-c so i can charge without using their shit magnetic connector.
2018-10-16T20:57:15 < Steffanx> why the down grade ..
2018-10-16T20:58:16 < upgrdman> ?
2018-10-16T20:58:29 < Steffanx> the change back to dp
2018-10-16T20:59:51 < upgrdman> it was always mini-dp
2018-10-16T21:00:22 < upgrdman> many were hoping for usb-c, but msft said it wasnt ready yet, they said usb-c charging was not reliable enough with random changers
2018-10-16T21:00:37 < Steffanx> oh, i can get into that.
2018-10-16T21:01:29 < Steffanx> i thought you meant they removed usb-c in the "bro" 6
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2018-10-16T21:19:18 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soaFdiNH724
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2018-10-16T21:46:00 < englishman> i like the magnetic connector
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2018-10-16T21:49:16 < upgrdman> i like it when it works
2018-10-16T21:49:23 < upgrdman> which is 25% of the time
2018-10-16T21:49:34 < upgrdman> well, with the docking station its like 25% of the time
2018-10-16T21:49:42 < upgrdman> the power only one is lie 75%
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2018-10-16T22:09:09 < bitmask> ITS ALIVE!
2018-10-16T22:09:32 < englishman> what does the cocking station do i never saw that
2018-10-16T22:09:42 < zyp> it cocks
2018-10-16T22:09:44 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68CGBq8Rizs
2018-10-16T22:11:36 < englishman> the amazon video web player sure is garbo
2018-10-16T22:11:59 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/1okPJZr.png
2018-10-16T22:12:10 < Laurenceb> accurate
2018-10-16T22:13:39 < Laurenceb> tfw my home town is mentioned
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2018-10-16T22:16:47 < Laurenceb> she met /pol/ at last
2018-10-16T22:16:50 < Laurenceb> http://www.bremaininspain.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/20180410_173451-e1523788983204.jpg
2018-10-16T22:17:25 < Laurenceb> >he gave her a hard brexit
2018-10-16T22:18:30 < Laurenceb> oh wow https://www.albawhitewolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/img_4195.jpg
2018-10-16T22:18:49 < Laurenceb> channers irl
2018-10-16T22:19:28 < englishman> dont you have important science to do
2018-10-16T22:19:37 < Laurenceb> muh babby
2018-10-16T22:19:51 < Laurenceb> maybe I should upload some photos, I could think of some lulzy ones
2018-10-16T22:20:09 < Laurenceb> especially as we have a black babby manikin now
2018-10-16T22:20:59 < Laurenceb> i could wear my blacked.com lifetime member t-shirt
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2018-10-16T23:39:51  * antto puts kakimir, i2c, and lpc into a bucket, and adds water
2018-10-16T23:39:54  * antto stirrs
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2018-10-16T23:51:42 < Steffanx> Shaken, not stirred.
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2018-10-16T23:52:07 < antto> shadap, i'm the chef
2018-10-16T23:52:24 < antto> don't tell me how to cook mah soup
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2018-10-16T23:56:18 < Laurenceb> englishman: I'm DOING THE SCIENCE
2018-10-16T23:56:39 < Laurenceb> tfw my work is completed https://postimg.cc/ygg12wSM
2018-10-16T23:57:49 < englishman> ur so smart laurent
2018-10-16T23:58:02 < englishman> im glad your smartyness is wasted so dumb fucks like me can get ahead a bit
--- Day changed Wed Oct 17 2018
2018-10-17T00:01:51 < Laurenceb> reddit posters lair https://postimg.cc/crQQVzRt
2018-10-17T00:08:10 < Steffanx> Get some bricks Laurenceb 
2018-10-17T00:08:17 < Laurenceb> I just did
2018-10-17T00:08:21 < Laurenceb> for -10p each
2018-10-17T00:08:23 < Laurenceb> score
2018-10-17T00:09:21 < Steffanx> Ugly brit rex?
2018-10-17T00:09:24 < Steffanx> Red*
2018-10-17T00:09:36 < Laurenceb> yeah from 1750 or so
2018-10-17T00:10:09 < Laurenceb> I should become a mafia tier brick trader
2018-10-17T00:10:19 < Laurenceb> can make about ukp2/brick
2018-10-17T00:11:50 < Laurenceb> and behave like a complete asshole on the phone
2018-10-17T00:12:32 < Laurenceb>  "if you buy 500 and pay, I'll see what I have in stock for you"
2018-10-17T00:13:08 < Laurenceb>  "btw, the MOQ is 1k"
2018-10-17T00:15:09 < Steffanx> Logic <3
2018-10-17T00:15:48 < englishman> you could buy some muskbricks
2018-10-17T00:15:53 < Steffanx> What arw you building? Didnt you buy a complete house?
2018-10-17T00:15:54 < karlp> what are you talking about?
2018-10-17T00:15:56 < Laurenceb> professional brick matcher is actually a job
2018-10-17T00:16:23 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: rebuilding outer skin of crappy 1970s wall so it looks original
2018-10-17T00:16:40 < englishman> NHS babby shaking dollars at work
2018-10-17T00:16:48 < Laurenceb> correct
2018-10-17T00:17:40 < Laurenceb> and training for my new jerb as travelling brick matcher/sourcer
2018-10-17T00:19:27 < Laurenceb> theres big bux to be made
2018-10-17T00:21:17 < Laurenceb> bbl
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2018-10-17T00:24:51 < Steffanx> Did he sell?
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2018-10-17T01:31:59 < Steffanx> hi blaxter
2018-10-17T01:35:22 < mawk> my teacher for whom I found clients for just thanked me by email
2018-10-17T01:35:43 < mawk> my master plan is going as expected
2018-10-17T01:36:01 < mawk> yes
2018-10-17T01:36:09 < mawk> I skept most classes so they want to kick me out
2018-10-17T01:36:17 < mawk> but now that I have this teacher in my pocket he will help me pass
2018-10-17T01:36:40 < mawk> not attended classes
2018-10-17T01:36:53 < mawk> 22
2018-10-17T01:37:30 < mawk> well teachers are still called teachers
2018-10-17T01:37:36 < mawk> I'm in engineering school
2018-10-17T01:44:37 < mawk> yes
2018-10-17T01:44:56 < mawk> well not stm32 specifically, just ARM baremetal
2018-10-17T01:44:59 < mawk> which happened to use stm32
2018-10-17T01:45:11 < mawk> also a second "IoT" class where we used mbed on stm32
2018-10-17T01:45:27 < mawk> lol
2018-10-17T01:45:36 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-17T01:45:58 < mawk> I had the same reaction when I read the "Enhanced Shockburst" protocol for nordic transceivers
2018-10-17T01:46:06 < mawk> it sounds like some directed energy weapon
2018-10-17T01:50:11 < PeterM> https://www.eldoled.com/cms_file.php?fromDB=8843&forceDownload - i feel like laurence experienced a lot of flickering lights as a child
2018-10-17T01:51:20 < mawk> lol
2018-10-17T01:53:28 < englishman> welcome PeterM 
2018-10-17T01:53:50 < englishman> thanks for &forceDownload
2018-10-17T01:53:53 < englishman> nice troll
2018-10-17T01:54:33 < mawk> I don't understand why the constant current method is worse than their hybrid method PeterM 
2018-10-17T01:54:39 < mawk> or maybe this pdf is done by those who sell that thing
2018-10-17T01:54:45 < mawk> so they can't say otherwise
2018-10-17T01:56:26 < PeterM> no problem :D
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2018-10-17T01:57:00 < PeterM> also, yeah, semi-marketing stuff, i just thought the sideeffects of flicker bit was amusing
2018-10-17T01:57:42 < englishman> pee term i bought a 16S battery bms
2018-10-17T01:58:10 < englishman> but the LDOs on it glow with the force of a thousand suns
2018-10-17T01:58:23 < englishman> why are they drawing so much current constantly
2018-10-17T01:58:24 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/HXhs86U.jpg
2018-10-17T01:59:52 < jadew> 55 C is not that much
2018-10-17T02:00:23 < englishman> it only balances when charging
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2018-10-17T02:02:10 < englishman> chyna of course
2018-10-17T02:02:10 < englishman> https://www.lithiumbatterypcb.com/product/20s-84v-lithium-bluetooth-bms-with-100a-constant-discharge-current/
2018-10-17T02:02:48 < srk> this one is nice https://github.com/DieBieEngineering/DieBieMS
2018-10-17T02:06:09 < englishman> neat, too bad it is low cell count only
2018-10-17T02:07:04 < englishman> PeterM: 
2018-10-17T02:08:52 < englishman> hahaha.
2018-10-17T02:09:07 < PeterM> englishman no idea, i didnt make the bloody thing.
2018-10-17T02:09:20 < englishman> i thought you were a bms pro.
2018-10-17T02:09:33 < englishman> only got this one cuz i couldnt find the one you suggested to dongs
2018-10-17T02:13:18 < PeterM> are the cells greatly out of balance? how long has it been connected etc?
2018-10-17T02:13:43 < PeterM> i mean, if this is the first connect to a way out of balance pack i could maybe see that happening
2018-10-17T02:14:38 < PeterM> but i dont know why they'd do that
2018-10-17T02:14:58 < PeterM> that seems like shitty design
2018-10-17T02:16:18 < PeterM> im trying to think of what may cause it, nothing immediately comes to mind
2018-10-17T02:16:42 < englishman> yeah first connect but balancing is off except during charging
2018-10-17T02:17:28 < PeterM> are you doing anything silly like pullingcurrent backwards though the LDO
2018-10-17T02:17:42 < PeterM> like out the vdd
2018-10-17T02:17:44 < englishman> i hope not, nothing else is connected anyway
2018-10-17T02:17:53 < PeterM> hmm
2018-10-17T02:17:55 < PeterM> i duno
2018-10-17T02:18:11 < PeterM> that said, at 16s, thats near 60v'
2018-10-17T02:18:12 < englishman> serial comms work and i can view and change settings, and see that balancing is indeed not taking place
2018-10-17T02:18:28 < PeterM> i assume the ldo is dropping to 3v3 or 5v
2018-10-17T02:18:32 < englishman> yeah around 66 fully up
2018-10-17T02:18:41 < englishman> yeah 5v
2018-10-17T02:18:44 < PeterM> so thats like 50-60v accross the ldo
2018-10-17T02:18:58 < PeterM> so you only need to pull 10ma to get half a watt
2018-10-17T02:19:02 < englishman> but if they are heating that much i can't leave the bms plugged in
2018-10-17T02:19:10 < englishman> it will just self-discharge
2018-10-17T02:19:13 < PeterM> yeah
2018-10-17T02:19:49 < PeterM> is the serial comms by bluetooth or jsut uart<->usb thing
2018-10-17T02:20:17 < englishman> i have a bluetooth dongle and an ftdi thingy its just ttl serial
2018-10-17T02:20:24 < englishman> for android or PC
2018-10-17T02:20:39 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/K0H967b.png
2018-10-17T02:20:48 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/gj1Zsbh.png
2018-10-17T02:21:00 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/NLRcDYw.jpg
2018-10-17T02:21:06 < PeterM> if its bluetooth the bluetooth tx will be using a ma ortwo
2018-10-17T02:21:43 < PeterM> >>propowercable lol
2018-10-17T02:21:45 < englishman> yeah, i unplugged it, same thing
2018-10-17T02:22:03 < PeterM> also, does BMS have logic level on-off?
2018-10-17T02:22:05 < englishman> lol yeah amazon car amp cable
2018-10-17T02:22:20 < PeterM> or load disconnect?
2018-10-17T02:22:21 < englishman> not that i know of
2018-10-17T02:22:24 < PeterM> hmm
2018-10-17T02:22:27 < englishman> load disconnect sure
2018-10-17T02:22:32 < englishman> but just on the load side
2018-10-17T02:22:45 < englishman> when overcurrent/undervolt etc
2018-10-17T02:22:47 < PeterM> is it intended for user use?
2018-10-17T02:23:04 < PeterM> so that the bmscan function as a solidstate relay
2018-10-17T02:23:16 < PeterM> to disconnect the pack from the load
2018-10-17T02:23:24 < englishman> theres a shitload of lowside fets there yeah
2018-10-17T02:24:01 < PeterM> but is it designedfor user use, ie, you leave your speed controlelr turned on etc adn you just send signal to bms to turn on powerto system?
2018-10-17T02:24:18 < englishman> https://www.lithiumbatterypcb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/4-8.jpg
2018-10-17T02:24:21 < englishman> both sides arelike that
2018-10-17T02:24:25 < englishman> oh, not that i know of
2018-10-17T02:24:42 < englishman> it is not meant to be used as a main contactor
2018-10-17T02:25:32 < karlp> hrm, changed object style in lua, ~double performance.
2018-10-17T02:26:16 < PeterM> igot no idea then
2018-10-17T02:26:48 < englishman> yeah
2018-10-17T02:26:54 < englishman> i asked mfg but hes slow as fuck
2018-10-17T02:27:02 < englishman> i also want to buy a display thing he sells
2018-10-17T02:28:40 < PeterM> do you have a dc clamp current meter?
2018-10-17T02:31:17 < PeterM> or any easy way to check how much the draw is and if its accross the entire pack or jsut a few cells
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2018-10-17T02:34:05 < PeterM> is there any place to connect the top of the pack, aside from the top balance tap?
2018-10-17T02:38:40 < PeterM> that link you provided to the vendor suggests it has ability to functionasa maincontactor - i would investigate that, and see if there is any difference between the "on" state and "off"state
2018-10-17T02:40:43 < PeterM> in the specs it states max 20ma "normal" current and 200ua "sleep" current
2018-10-17T02:40:51 < PeterM> i assume its not going to sleep or something
2018-10-17T02:42:15 < PeterM> anyway i gotta afk again, i'll check back later
2018-10-17T02:43:09 < englishman> yeah I was going to check where current was coming from but didn't have time last week
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2018-10-17T03:22:17 < Laurenceb124> I've got it
2018-10-17T03:22:24 < Laurenceb124> brick id app using deep learning
2018-10-17T03:22:29 < Laurenceb124> internet of bricks
2018-10-17T03:23:59 < Laurenceb124> this could actually sell
2018-10-17T03:27:47 < englishman> you could call it
2018-10-17T03:27:48 < englishman> brickbroker
2018-10-17T03:30:31 < Laurenceb124> heh
2018-10-17T03:31:26 < Laurenceb124> would probably need a small area of wall photographing to get a representative sample
2018-10-17T03:31:47 < Laurenceb124> but as texture is the most important thing it could work in variable lighting with uncalibrated cameras
2018-10-17T03:32:16 < englishman> or have a printable calibration card to include in the photo
2018-10-17T03:32:54 < Laurenceb124> yeah
2018-10-17T03:33:10 < Laurenceb124> ooh that could be a size calibrator too
2018-10-17T03:33:12 < Laurenceb124> niceeee
2018-10-17T03:33:27 < englishman> could double as your business card
2018-10-17T03:33:34 < englishman> or sales flyer
2018-10-17T03:33:35 < englishman> etc
2018-10-17T03:33:54 < Laurenceb124> genius, I'm rich :P
2018-10-17T03:34:07 < Laurenceb124> just need some motivation to stop trollin and do some wurk...
2018-10-17T03:34:15 < englishman> and, it's over
2018-10-17T03:34:25 < Laurenceb124> heh
2018-10-17T03:34:40 < Laurenceb124> professional brick sourcers will kill me
2018-10-17T03:35:34 < englishman> laurencebrick
2018-10-17T03:35:57 < englishman> with your brick riches you could hire armed brickguards
2018-10-17T03:36:32 < englishman> til elon musk starts selling synthetic bricks and puts out out of brickness
2018-10-17T03:38:00 < Laurenceb124> well robotic bricklaying has been demonstrated
2018-10-17T03:38:20 < Laurenceb124> but the robots will need matching bricks to join onto old stuff
2018-10-17T03:39:21 < englishman> 3d printing to the brickscue
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2018-10-17T03:41:44 < dogukan> hi
2018-10-17T03:42:14 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/3kGC55N2
2018-10-17T03:43:26 < Laurenceb124> muh bricklaying skillz
2018-10-17T03:45:30 < Laurenceb124> its hiding a steel column, all that woodwork is actually fake
2018-10-17T03:47:39 < Laurenceb124> literally years of work :(
2018-10-17T03:48:18 < Laurenceb124> only the outer shell is now ~1750, its basically a steel framed building disguised as 1700s 
2018-10-17T03:48:43 < Laurenceb124> but that means all new services and insulation etc
2018-10-17T03:49:33 < Laurenceb124> nothing, just showing off what I do when I'm not trollin or shakkin
2018-10-17T03:50:31 < Laurenceb124> yes, but I rent it atm
2018-10-17T03:50:50 < friendofafriend> You put a brick in Laurenceb124's face, you know what he's gon' do with it.
2018-10-17T03:53:29 < englishman> you rent a house that you bought?
2018-10-17T03:53:49 < Laurenceb124> the floor is made from parts of the old floor and roof, you can see where I attacked it with a saw
2018-10-17T03:53:53 < Laurenceb124> englishman: yeah
2018-10-17T03:54:05 < englishman> mortgage and rent
2018-10-17T03:54:33 < Laurenceb124> I own it 100%, inherited it, so rent pays my bills
2018-10-17T03:55:02 < Laurenceb124> I used gov grant money to pay for the materials and some of the labour
2018-10-17T03:55:17 < Laurenceb124> enviro house bullshit
2018-10-17T03:56:24 < Laurenceb124>  "1750 house rebuilt to 2012 standards with all the work documented"
2018-10-17T03:56:54 < Laurenceb124> and ~no cosmetic changes apparent
2018-10-17T03:58:14 < Laurenceb124> the government what to try this approach on grade 1 and 2 listed buildings
2018-10-17T04:01:28 < Laurenceb124> lulwut
2018-10-17T04:01:38 < Laurenceb124> eat raw onions
2018-10-17T04:01:43 < Laurenceb124> become a chad
2018-10-17T04:02:48 < Laurenceb124> are you moar white than Elizabeth Warren?
2018-10-17T04:04:14 < Laurenceb124> Richard Spencer has banned u from the ethnostate
2018-10-17T04:04:31 < dogukan> uh, have I joined to the correct channel? I have a question about stm32f303k8 nucleo board :D
2018-10-17T04:05:02 < Laurenceb124> nah we are just construction workers hanging out with trollz from 4chan
2018-10-17T04:05:06 < Laurenceb124> k fire away
2018-10-17T04:05:16 < dogukan> lol
2018-10-17T04:06:11 < dogukan> Is there a way to communicate with PC over USB using UART on this board? Pretty much like Arduino
2018-10-17T04:06:51 < Laurenceb124> hmm
2018-10-17T04:07:10 < Laurenceb124> you could use usb serial emulation on the smt32
2018-10-17T04:07:13 < Laurenceb124> *stm
2018-10-17T04:07:22 < Laurenceb124> or you could use whats called semihosting
2018-10-17T04:07:36 < Laurenceb124> that allows printf type functionality over the debugger
2018-10-17T04:08:28 < Laurenceb124> I'd probably suggest googling
2018-10-17T04:08:46 < Laurenceb124> if you want a simple example with printf functionality over usb I'd look at chibios
2018-10-17T04:23:14 < PeterM> howmuch arduino like do oyu want?
2018-10-17T04:23:23 < PeterM> there is mbed if you want to go full tarduino
2018-10-17T04:24:46 < Streaker> stm32duino ?
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2018-10-17T04:27:09 < dogukan> nope, I just want to send things to pc over usb using uart if it is possible :) On tm4c123gxl, setting one of the ports as uart makes it transmit and receive from usb, I just wanted to know if it is possible on this board
2018-10-17T04:29:59 < Streaker> I think there's a feature in the debugger that let's you view printfs from code running on the stm32
2018-10-17T04:30:27 < Streaker> transparently
2018-10-17T04:30:57 < Streaker> debug printfs
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2018-10-17T04:32:45 < dogukan> alright I think debug printf is a good point to start
2018-10-17T04:32:50 < dogukan> thank you all
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2018-10-17T05:00:23 < jadew> hey, how bad is PCB dust?
2018-10-17T05:00:53 < upgrdman> is there a nice chrome addon to download videos from webpage? not just youtube, but in general.
2018-10-17T05:01:01 < Streaker> It's glass...
2018-10-17T05:01:06 < upgrdman> i mean, there's lots listen, but any with a good rep
2018-10-17T05:01:10 < upgrdman> listed*
2018-10-17T05:03:02 < Laurenceb124> pcb dust is glass fibre dust
2018-10-17T05:03:11 < Laurenceb124> so non carcinogenic but not good for you
2018-10-17T05:04:41 < branjb> no worse than smoking a cig
2018-10-17T05:04:56 < jadew> I'm cutting some rogers 4350b and the dust seems different
2018-10-17T05:05:03 < jadew> (my method of cutting is different too)
2018-10-17T05:05:17 < jadew> I'm using a cutter to score it (several times)
2018-10-17T05:05:48 < jadew> they say it contains fused silica and Continuous Filament Fiber Glass
2018-10-17T05:06:32 < PeterM> if you're scorng and snapping it's fine
2018-10-17T05:06:37 < PeterM> the amount you're inhaling isnothing
2018-10-17T05:06:42 < jadew> PeterM, that's the plan
2018-10-17T05:06:50 < jadew> cool
2018-10-17T05:07:02 < PeterM> but if you're running panels and panels through a circular saw and huffing the shit then you're fucked
2018-10-17T05:07:20 < jadew> no, I'm scoring, but there's still dust forming
2018-10-17T05:07:42 < branjb> jadew figure it this way, there is probably hundreds of people in factories in china breathing that shit in and they are just fine
2018-10-17T05:07:47 < jadew> the blade broke as I was scoring and my hand tapped the board and that's when I saw dust rising
2018-10-17T05:08:04 < jadew> I took a step back and held my breath, but I could see it not goind down as fast as I wish it did
2018-10-17T05:08:23 < jadew> branjb, haha, that's not very reassuring
2018-10-17T05:08:40 < PeterM> or there are shitloads of tradespeople working in ceilingcavitiespacked with fiberglass mats that spew off dust and they are OK
2018-10-17T05:09:00 < jadew> that's a good point
2018-10-17T05:09:38 < PeterM> i mean, if you install thestuff for a living you should wear a mask but if you're jsut an electrician or osmething moving around onhte stuffyoudont bother
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2018-10-17T05:11:23 < englishman> well you go root him right back
2018-10-17T05:11:54 < PeterM> plaster saw to install aGPO? dont you jsut bash a hole with your hammer and snap it off tosizewithyour pliers?
2018-10-17T05:12:16 < PeterM> im guessing this spacebaris fucked
2018-10-17T05:12:36 < jadew> looks like it
2018-10-17T05:12:37 < jadew> yes
2018-10-17T05:13:09 < PeterM> liveleak probably hasa mirror
2018-10-17T05:13:21 < PeterM> for hitler stuff
2018-10-17T05:15:54 < dongs> upgrdman: just use youtube-dl 
2018-10-17T05:16:04 < dongs> fuck chrome addons
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2018-10-17T05:16:59 < catphish> https://imgur.com/a/JWbGy3x :)
2018-10-17T05:17:38 < dongs> kikecad
2018-10-17T05:17:38 < jadew> youtube is back
2018-10-17T05:18:01 < catphish> dongs: topped off with a bit of openscad and freecad :)
2018-10-17T05:18:15 < dongs> gross
2018-10-17T05:18:15 < catphish> gotta love that free software
2018-10-17T05:18:42 < dongs> sores being opened
2018-10-17T05:18:49 < PeterM> openscad sounds like something you wantto get checked out by  your GP... "yeah doc, i got a real bad open scad on my leg..."
2018-10-17T05:18:50 < dongs> catphish: i can do all of that directly in altium
2018-10-17T05:18:55 < catphish> because dongs loves open source
2018-10-17T05:19:10 < dongs> does orcad even support importing 3d models
2018-10-17T05:19:17 < jadew> lol PeterM
2018-10-17T05:19:18 < catphish> dongs: i can't because i don't have altium
2018-10-17T05:20:13 < catphish> it's ended up a bit fat :(
2018-10-17T05:20:19 < jadew> yt is fucked
2018-10-17T05:20:34 < jadew> I'm logged out, but getting okish suggestions
2018-10-17T05:20:37 < dongs> catphish: why are you using that dumb vertical battery connector
2018-10-17T05:20:54 < jadew> normally, it recommends only shit music when I'm log out
2018-10-17T05:21:01 < catphish> dongs: i'm wondering that, not sure where better to put it though
2018-10-17T05:21:43 < jadew> is that why the case is so tall?
2018-10-17T05:22:02 < catphish> yes, entirely becaue of the batery
2018-10-17T05:22:16 < dongs> catphish: i mean, there are coin cell holders that are flat
2018-10-17T05:22:25 < dongs> and/or supercapacitor shits that solder directly to pcb
2018-10-17T05:22:29 < catphish> there are, but that's not a coin cell
2018-10-17T05:22:52 < dongs> https://uk.farnell.com/panasonic-electronic-components/eecen0f204j2/cap-double-0-2f-3-3v-smd/dp/1751935
2018-10-17T05:22:55 < dongs> i.e shit like this
2018-10-17T05:22:56 < dongs> what is it hten
2018-10-17T05:23:03 < catphish> its a cr123a
2018-10-17T05:23:14 < dongs> o
2018-10-17T05:23:32 < dongs> i coulnt tell from your shitty OPEN SORES DRENDERING
2018-10-17T05:24:05 < catphish> :)
2018-10-17T05:24:34 < catphish> wonder if there's a flatter high capacity lithium cell
2018-10-17T05:25:03 < PeterM> like a prismatic pouch cell?
2018-10-17T05:25:17 < dongs> like literally any lipo cell? yeah
2018-10-17T05:26:24 < catphish> CR2477 might do it
2018-10-17T05:26:39 < dongs> .no
2018-10-17T05:27:02 < dongs> https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-1000mah-1s-20c-lipoly-single-cell.html?___store=en_us
2018-10-17T05:27:16 < dongs> Cell Size: 67 x 34 x 6mm
2018-10-17T05:27:48 < catphish> i fear too much volts, too much charging
2018-10-17T05:28:10 < Thorn> youtube rekt?
2018-10-17T05:28:15 < dongs> ya man
2018-10-17T05:28:23 < englishman> https://www.worksonmymachine.pro/
2018-10-17T05:28:37 < catphish> ah fuck its 03:30
2018-10-17T05:28:39 < Thorn> no it doesn't mr. englishman 
2018-10-17T05:29:04 < englishman> yeah i guess not
2018-10-17T05:29:08 < PeterM> it doesntwork forme either, it's probably a cdn issue
2018-10-17T05:29:09 < englishman> i had to actually click on something
2018-10-17T05:29:12 < Thorn> https://www.instagram.com/p/BpBFtB1lR1a/
2018-10-17T05:29:32 < dongs> The last link has been flagged by IRC NANNY as "Possibly Unsuitable". Please find your parent(s) first and have them check the content before opening. [this channel protected by IrCNaNNY by SafeSoft v1.0b]
2018-10-17T05:30:14 < Thorn> dongs is not allowed to see naughty instagram posts
2018-10-17T05:30:15 < catphish> lol
2018-10-17T05:32:49 < englishman> youtube is finally 100% whitespace
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2018-10-17T05:36:19 < machinehum> hi
2018-10-17T05:36:21 < catphish> i sleep now :)
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2018-10-17T05:38:51 < machinehum> classiv
2018-10-17T05:38:53 < machinehum> c
2018-10-17T05:42:13 < englishman> are you stoned yet
2018-10-17T05:44:29 < englishman> to tide everyone over while youtube is down https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/119283
2018-10-17T05:51:41 < dongs> click to enable falsh player
2018-10-17T05:52:53 < dongs> wanker
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2018-10-17T05:54:40 < englishman> check the upload date on that
2018-10-17T05:54:56 < machinehum> oh god newgrounds
2018-10-17T06:14:34 < dongs> sup dongs
2018-10-17T06:14:39 < dongs> crt, someoen is sending me a fucking DJ mixer to fix
2018-10-17T06:14:47 < dongs> i didnt even say yes
2018-10-17T06:14:49 < dongs> and they sent it anyway
2018-10-17T06:15:02 < dongs> "I will just leave it in your office then. I think it’s really messed up inside th"
2018-10-17T06:15:07 < dongs> ????
2018-10-17T06:15:15 < branjb> https://imgur.com/a/G1pzVyN
2018-10-17T06:32:32 < dongs> im now curious what "really messed up inside" means
2018-10-17T06:32:41 < dongs> is it full of jizz???
2018-10-17T06:32:42 < dongs> coke???
2018-10-17T06:33:07 < dongs> gross
2018-10-17T06:34:11 < dongs> good thing i won't be in office until 23rd
2018-10-17T06:34:16 < dongs> so it can just sit there rotting more
2018-10-17T06:47:41 < Thorn> Atlas V launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe0-uSysifQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w_bwMdj1oM
2018-10-17T06:49:34 < englishman> oh god that first link
2018-10-17T06:49:43 < englishman> fucking soyboy vbloggers
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2018-10-17T07:16:15 < branjb> what is this atlas V bullshit
2018-10-17T07:17:05 < englishman> rockets that dont blow up
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2018-10-17T07:22:05 < englishman> ty Thorn 
2018-10-17T07:22:06 -!- day__ is now known as day
2018-10-17T07:22:16 < branjb> anyone watched the rain or altered carbon on netflix?  either decent?
2018-10-17T07:22:53 < englishman> altered carbon had awful writing and acting but the plot was interesting
2018-10-17T07:23:09 < englishman> made me want to read the book
2018-10-17T07:24:19 < branjb> the trailer reminded me a bit of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasshouse_(novel)
2018-10-17T07:25:45 < branjb> the summary sounds majorly muh 51 genders but this book was written in 2006 and that part is barely relevant
2018-10-17T07:28:36 < dongs> right here
2018-10-17T07:29:15 < dongs> is youtube back up
2018-10-17T07:29:45 < dongs> lol
2018-10-17T07:29:51 < branjb> crt: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2130625347/goliath-cnc-an-autonomous-robotic-machine-tool-for
2018-10-17T07:30:17 < englishman> ivan isnt in the bar photo because he's holding the camera
2018-10-17T07:31:13 < branjb> look how much money they got
2018-10-17T07:31:16 < branjb> how are people that dumb?
2018-10-17T07:32:23 < dongs> branjb: did that fail
2018-10-17T07:32:36 < englishman> fir and iir filters
2018-10-17T07:32:39 < englishman> very important
2018-10-17T07:33:02 < branjb> no dongs it's brand new
2018-10-17T07:33:08 < branjb> oh wait
2018-10-17T07:33:22 < branjb> it should have hit delivery dates already
2018-10-17T07:33:26 < englishman> no its from last year
2018-10-17T07:33:27 < branjb> i don't even have to check to know it failed
2018-10-17T07:33:53 < branjb> >clicks comments
2018-10-17T07:33:59 < englishman> probably another 12-18 months til failure
2018-10-17T07:34:04 < branjb> most recent comment: Please cancel my pledge and contact me about a refund. 
2018-10-17T07:34:23 < dongs> no, its old
2018-10-17T07:34:25 < dongs> i saw it 1+ year ago
2018-10-17T07:34:28 < dongs> and lol'd how retarded the idea was
2018-10-17T07:34:43 < branjb> dongs it just hit the delivery dates in august 2018
2018-10-17T07:34:51 < branjb> so people are now realizing they got scammed
2018-10-17T07:35:02 < branjb> >Yes I was personally contacted and told I can’t get a refund. Guess I’ll have to pursue a charge back with my credit card company. This is ridiculous!
2018-10-17T07:36:07 < branjb> so much vaporware
2018-10-17T07:37:06 < englishman> where's yours
2018-10-17T07:37:20 < branjb> lol i was thinking of what i could do at this very moment
2018-10-17T07:37:37 < dongs> arduino + raspberrypi + IoT
2018-10-17T07:37:42 < dongs> just watch the money roll in
2018-10-17T07:37:45 < branjb> just need an alias in panama, a swiss bank account, and some shitty idea that people will donate to
2018-10-17T07:38:06 < branjb> funded -> POOF
2018-10-17T07:38:12 < englishman> just do it in R2COM's name
2018-10-17T07:38:37 < branjb> do you think sites like kickstarter/gofundme are used for money laundering?
2018-10-17T07:38:54 < englishman> someone on efnet linked some 2nd laptop screen addon shit
2018-10-17T07:39:03 < englishman> so crap like superscreen has potential still
2018-10-17T07:39:20 < branjb> btw how is Star Citizen doing?
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2018-10-17T09:04:31 < Steffanx> Crt told me you went for altium, R2COM. Is it true? Do you know?
2018-10-17T09:07:55 < aandrew> englishman: honestly if I ever need a portable second screen I just use duet display
2018-10-17T09:08:08 < aandrew> turns any phone or ipad into a second monitor
2018-10-17T09:08:23 < aandrew> clearly won't work for high video rates but you can watch movies on it if you wanted to
2018-10-17T09:08:36 < aandrew> I *think* it works with some android tablets/phones as well. started out apple but works on PC too
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2018-10-17T10:22:05 < dongs> hows israel
2018-10-17T10:24:30 < dongs> yea bro6 is a retarded disappointment
2018-10-17T10:24:36 < dongs> but im not buying another laptop without dgpu anyway
2018-10-17T10:24:40 < dongs> intel graphics is absolute shit
2018-10-17T10:24:49 < dongs> and thermals in most modern laptops are shit too
2018-10-17T10:25:00 < dongs> my fucking HP spends like 90% of time in thermal throttling mode
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2018-10-17T10:42:14 < dongs> no, im just actually using a computer
2018-10-17T10:42:30 < dongs> where if I was running lunix teh shit wuld just be idling while im vi'ing some retarded /etc/fuckoff.xml
2018-10-17T10:42:38 < dongs> praying for it to still be working on next boot
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2018-10-17T10:45:53 < PaulFertser> Yeah, you'd be editing an XML there just to have non-retarded fonts.
2018-10-17T10:46:13 < dongs> wut
2018-10-17T10:46:19 < dongs> all lunix fonts are retarded
2018-10-17T10:46:26 < dongs> cuz the freetard renderer can't hint or wahtever
2018-10-17T10:46:28 < dongs> so all lunix fonts look like shit
2018-10-17T10:47:04 < PaulFertser> You'd be editing it to force fixed-size fonts, hand-drawn.
2018-10-17T10:51:08 < PaulFertser> dongs: btw, freetype included the "patented" hinter for long time but some distributions were disabling it because of the USA corrupt and malicious patent laws ("software patents"). So you should thank your USA friends for that. Full bytecode interpreter including subpixel opcodes were enabled and made default since Sep 2016.
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2018-10-17T10:55:07 < PaulFertser> "FreeType was created in 1996 by David Turner to render TrueType fonts, including an interpreter for handling TrueType bytecode." so it had proper hinting since day one.
2018-10-17T11:07:27 < PaulFertser> "FreeType is used as font renderer in Android."
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2018-10-17T12:06:10 < karlp> way to completely ignore what dogukan was really asking guys, good job last night....
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2018-10-17T12:12:03 < karlp> englishman: nice summary of altered carbon
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2018-10-17T12:16:17 < karlp> nah, he just wanted to know abotu stlink v2.1 having the usb-uart on the debug board,
2018-10-17T12:16:24 < karlp> because that's what his TI board had.
2018-10-17T12:16:58 < karlp> crt: nah, was just still in the scrollback.
2018-10-17T12:17:48 < karlp> he wanted some magical "I want to use a uart on the stm32 and have it appear on usb like magic arduino"
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2018-10-17T12:50:01 < Ecco_> hi :)
2018-10-17T12:50:44 < Ecco_> Quick question: do you guys have any idea of the price for a QuadSPI flash module (let's say 16 MB), in quite significant volumes (10K for example)
2018-10-17T12:51:10 < Ecco_> Sure I could check Mouser and co, but from my small experience they tend to be very expensive
2018-10-17T12:53:39 < jpa-> Ecco_: ask dongs to source you some
2018-10-17T12:54:35 < jpa-> but flash prices vary a lot, even if it is $X today, it may be 2x or 0.5x that the next year
2018-10-17T12:55:38 < Ecco_> hmm, interesting
2018-10-17T12:55:50 < Ecco_> Actually I'm asking because I'm surprised by the prices I see
2018-10-17T12:56:01 < Ecco_> I would have thought small-sized Flash modules to be dirt cheap
2018-10-17T12:56:12 < Ecco_> and they're like $5 on Mouser
2018-10-17T12:56:38 < Ecco_> CHeapest I found : https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/ISSI/IS25WP032D-RMLE?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtI%252bQ06EiAoG5kNS0TozX6GfEXWIhkJMlE%3d
2018-10-17T12:56:54 < Ecco_> That's nearly $2 for 32 Mbits
2018-10-17T12:57:14 < jpa-> $1.25 for 16 Mbyte  https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/winbond-electronics/W25Q128JVSIM-TR/W25Q128JVSIMTR-ND/6819722
2018-10-17T12:57:14 < Ecco_> Are QuadSPI modules significantly more expensive?
2018-10-17T12:57:29 < Ecco_> meh, that one is QuadSPI too
2018-10-17T12:57:30 < Ecco_> ok
2018-10-17T13:01:51 < jpa-> but compared to e.g. microsd cards, they'll always be more expensive because of NOR vs. NAND flash
2018-10-17T13:26:29 < Sadale> I may start drawing my first PCB soon, as a hobby. :3
2018-10-17T13:27:08 < Sadale> I downloaded it :3
2018-10-17T13:27:23 < Sadale> I haven't started using it. But soon will. Perhaps in the coming days.
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2018-10-17T13:28:14 < BrainDamage> don't worry, you'll become a bitter dejected irc EE in no time
2018-10-17T13:28:46 < catphish> zyp: remind me - how much are your usb nfc interfaces? my friend is considering using them for his trains
2018-10-17T13:31:43 < karlp> dongs: what do you reckon mornsun K78L03-500R3 costs in china? 
2018-10-17T13:35:39 < dongs> karlp: like $1.5-1.8 i guess?
2018-10-17T13:35:49 < dongs> probly around 1.5
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2018-10-17T13:36:45 < dongs> fucking ecco
2018-10-17T13:36:48 < dongs> whawt hte hell is he scheming now
2018-10-17T13:37:04 < karlp> dongs: thanks, about what I was expecting-ish.
2018-10-17T13:37:29 < dongs> its probly less than singles price of LM317 on digikey
2018-10-17T13:37:32 < dongs> ynm
2018-10-17T13:39:18 < aandrew> $0.74 for W25Q128 in 10k on octopart
2018-10-17T13:39:29 < aandrew> not sure why ecco couldn't do that himself
2018-10-17T13:40:20 < karlp> dongs: yeah, using a LDO now, but thermal is getting tight with more load, was just wondering to put two mornsun modules down intead of one :)
2018-10-17T13:40:25 < aandrew> LM317 is $0.04 in same volume, but $0.12 in singles
2018-10-17T13:40:33 < kakimir> there is 2pin eeproms!
2018-10-17T13:40:46 < aandrew> I bet dongs can find W25Q128 for pennies in chinaland
2018-10-17T13:40:51 < aandrew> kakimir: yes, stupid 1wire bs
2018-10-17T13:41:35 < kakimir> hello sir
2018-10-17T13:41:43 < karlp> aandrew: well, not looking at replacing an lm317 :)
2018-10-17T13:41:49 < aandrew> :-)
2018-10-17T13:49:29 < kakimir> that can be concidered "wide range"
2018-10-17T13:51:31 < kakimir> almost
2018-10-17T13:51:48 < kakimir> piss freely
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2018-10-17T14:16:03 < kakimir> anyone have 2.54mm pin row mouser url laying around?
2018-10-17T14:16:30 < kakimir> maybe I just filter to adafruit products and go to connectors
2018-10-17T14:16:43 < kakimir> pin row assortment kit would be nice
2018-10-17T14:17:07 < kakimir> precut / made to length assortment
2018-10-17T14:18:05 < Sadale> <BrainDamage> don't worry, you'll become a bitter dejected irc EE in no time
2018-10-17T14:18:14 < Sadale> BrainDamage, getting rejected isn't a bad thing I guess. =P
2018-10-17T14:18:27 < Sadale> That's how does one learn about new stuffs.
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2018-10-17T14:23:05 < kakimir> tell me again what i2c eeprom was good?
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2018-10-17T14:23:23 < kakimir> what is the difference between C or L
2018-10-17T14:26:16 < BrainDamage> Sadale: dejected is not rejected
2018-10-17T14:30:12 < kakimir> AT24C32
2018-10-17T14:30:16 < kakimir> what do you think?
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2018-10-17T14:38:48 < kakimir> https://www.mouser.fi/ProductDetail/ON-Semiconductor/NB3L208KMNGEVB?qs=%2fha2pyFadujQP6wuMZyTh9vIpVJps2urMthWFMYzTg1hoEeVWyEp7cA90eMD4iFN  SMA detected
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2018-10-17T15:02:29 < invzim> wait 1 month to receive 2 bags of the wrong connetors - good times
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2018-10-17T15:12:45 < zyp> catphish, how many are we talking?
2018-10-17T15:14:25 < catphish> zyp: ah that age old question, not many, probably just for personal use, i was thinking individually, or maybe like 5-10
2018-10-17T15:15:28 < zyp> I think I have like four left in stock at the moment
2018-10-17T15:25:11 < karlp> "On board clock with infinite life supercap battery backup."
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2018-10-17T15:45:32 < catphish> zyp: thanks, how much were you selling them for?
2018-10-17T15:52:30 < zyp> $50 @1, but I'm willing to negotiate a discount if we're talking a large number of boards
2018-10-17T15:57:36 < catphish> zyp: ok cool :)
2018-10-17T15:58:15 < catphish> i'll let you know if he wants some
2018-10-17T15:58:38 < zyp> is this for tracking train positions?
2018-10-17T16:08:55 < catphish> zyp: yes
2018-10-17T16:09:14 < catphish> an off the shelf / usb per position is probably too expensive, but he was interestred in options
2018-10-17T16:10:30 < catphish> i thought opencv would be cool, but not very tidy
2018-10-17T16:11:16 < zyp> I thought about making something with both nfc and an optical proximity sensor
2018-10-17T16:13:53 < catphish> did you see my almost finished device by the way? https://imgur.com/a/JWbGy3x
2018-10-17T16:15:56 < zyp> nice
2018-10-17T16:19:23 < catphish> it's a bit fatter than i'd like, but not sure i can do anything about it
2018-10-17T16:19:40 < Thorn> 3rd "Make with Ada" has started
2018-10-17T16:22:37 < BrainDamage> the programming language?
2018-10-17T17:01:04 < englishman> model trains or actual trains
2018-10-17T17:01:23 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-17T17:02:02 < Thorn> 1:1 model trains
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2018-10-17T17:10:04 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/EjpFeRa.jpg
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2018-10-17T17:18:39 < Thorn> even if you win the 1st prize in makewithada you still can't afford their commercial compiler license lol
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2018-10-17T17:26:15 < kakimir> how to debug attinys?
2018-10-17T17:26:31  * kakimir *rollseyes*
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2018-10-17T17:29:41 < kakimir> nope
2018-10-17T17:29:44 < kakimir> TPI only
2018-10-17T17:29:55 < kakimir> leds it is
2018-10-17T17:30:02 < kakimir> how about bit banger?
2018-10-17T17:30:09 < kakimir> 9600 uart out
2018-10-17T17:30:31 < kakimir> hey it has i2c and spi I think
2018-10-17T17:31:36 < kakimir> i2c would be nice just
2018-10-17T17:31:45 < kakimir> write out bytes
2018-10-17T17:31:59 < kakimir> ignore all just push them out
2018-10-17T17:32:55 < kakimir> pulseview
2018-10-17T17:34:00 < kakimir> i2c is slave only
2018-10-17T17:34:11 < kakimir> so it can't clock out bytes
2018-10-17T17:36:11 < kakimir> spi it is
2018-10-17T17:36:35 < kakimir> can't imagine it would be too hard to clock those bytes out
2018-10-17T17:38:03 < kakimir> literally handling 2 registers
2018-10-17T17:38:11 < kakimir> data and status
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2018-10-17T17:47:34 < kakimir> just bush the bytes into that data register
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2018-10-17T17:53:07 < kakimir> could usbisp be used for SPI data capture?
2018-10-17T17:53:14 < kakimir> that stick thing
2018-10-17T17:53:44 < kakimir> I would need to flash it with some binary that would do the trick
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2018-10-17T17:54:05 < karlp> man, lpc was at least relevant, but fuck off with this attiny workaround bullshit
2018-10-17T17:54:21 < kakimir> *usbasp
2018-10-17T17:54:32 < kakimir> sorry man this project needs small mcu
2018-10-17T17:54:39 < kakimir> different project now
2018-10-17T17:54:47 < kakimir> prioritize once in a while
2018-10-17T17:55:01 < kakimir> small and cheap and whatnot
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2018-10-17T18:10:18 < kakimir> and this project needs to be done so no cheaper stuff than AVR
2018-10-17T18:11:17 < kakimir> it's really a pleasure to use AVR
2018-10-17T18:12:49 < kakimir> it's so minimalistic
2018-10-17T18:12:59 < kakimir> code is so dry
2018-10-17T18:14:26 < kakimir> usually application is simple and easy to understand
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2018-10-17T18:20:04 < catphish> zyp: i could implement a much lower cost LF RFID system for train detection actually
2018-10-17T18:20:40 < catphish> might be possible to find a low cost reader with rs232, would make wiring easy
2018-10-17T18:22:03 < zyp> everything can be implemented cheaply if you set the cost of developer hours to zero :)
2018-10-17T18:22:34 < catphish> hard to price your own dev time :(
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2018-10-17T18:23:15 < kakimir> your dev time is 1hour for 1hour
2018-10-17T18:23:19 < kakimir> currency is time
2018-10-17T18:23:31 < catphish> zyp: i mean something like https://www.banggood.com/125KHz-EM4100-RFID-Card-Read-Module-RDM630-UART-Compatible-Arduino-p-921141.html?cur_warehouse=UK
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2018-10-17T18:25:30 < zyp> a PN532 doesn't cost that much more: https://www.banggood.com/PN532-NFC-RFID-Module-V3-Reader-Writer-Breakout-Board-For-Arduino-Android-p-1213484.html
2018-10-17T18:25:47 < catphish> zyp: oh yeah
2018-10-17T18:26:09 < catphish> in fact i have one of those he can play with
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2018-10-17T18:49:16 < zyp> karlp, since you're into power metering, schneider powertag looks like a cute solution for general power metering
2018-10-17T18:49:23 < zyp> just expensive as fuck :)
2018-10-17T18:51:00 < zyp> I want a way to measure where the power I'm paying for is going, so I've been toying with the idea of installing meters on various circuits in new house, e.g. hot water tank
2018-10-17T18:51:07 < karlp> expensive as fuck indeed.
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2018-10-17T18:51:31 < karlp> send us a mail, we've dropped our prices a lot. 
2018-10-17T18:51:42 < zyp> that schneider solution would have been nice, but I can get 25 SDM120s for the price of one powertag and a gateway :p
2018-10-17T18:51:42 < karlp> powertag also requires you to use only shcneider brekaers right?
2018-10-17T18:52:11 < karlp> https://www.etactica.com/products/current-bar-eb/
2018-10-17T18:52:23 < karlp> yeah, but 25sdm120s or simlar will not fit in your cabinet
2018-10-17T18:52:30 < zyp> they seem to imply it without explicitly stating it, but I figure the form factor is similar enough that it'd fit the eaton ones that I'm getting too
2018-10-17T18:52:39 < karlp> I wouldn't bank on it.
2018-10-17T18:52:54 < karlp> _ours_ though, they defintiely fit on top of anyone's breakers :)
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2018-10-17T18:53:40 < karlp> janitza and carlogavazzi have some multi channel stuff too, but it's normally quite heavy setup wise.
2018-10-17T18:54:26 < karlp> oh yeah, this powertag. schneider has another one for multi channel stuff that's all on their own backplanes and stuff too.
2018-10-17T18:54:41 < karlp> powertag might work for more breakers, but *shrugs*
2018-10-17T18:54:51 < karlp> you need their gatweay and to trust their wireless.
2018-10-17T18:55:15 < zyp> hmm
2018-10-17T18:55:21 < zyp> how are you doing voltage pickup?
2018-10-17T18:55:37 < karlp> either not, because that's not actually what you need to know most of the time, 
2018-10-17T18:55:51 < karlp> or b) magical science and you use our gateway plus our EM 
2018-10-17T18:56:01 < karlp> and we synchronize the voltage from one place to all the others.
2018-10-17T18:56:11 < karlp> you get 99% of the value from just having current readings.
2018-10-17T18:56:20 < karlp> it's only marketing that says you need kwh.
2018-10-17T18:56:50 < karlp> some people want to knwo about changing power factors sure, but at a branch level, current gives you most of the real value.
2018-10-17T18:57:50 < karlp> you're meant to read the "power sync network" document and get all you need to know, not go asking me in person :)
2018-10-17T18:58:07 < zyp> :)
2018-10-17T18:59:59 < karlp> but yeah, the whole current/power thing is fun.
2018-10-17T19:01:08 < zyp> how are you supposed to use those current bars when e.g. you have a row of 2P breakers so you've got L+N interleaved?
2018-10-17T19:01:32 < zyp> grab a 12 channel bar and only use six of the channels?
2018-10-17T19:03:58 < karlp> yeah, or move to a sane coutnry...
2018-10-17T19:04:24 < karlp> but we've been considering making a 4 pin version to make it easier for people like you
2018-10-17T19:04:35 < karlp> and with some people with 3+N 
2018-10-17T19:04:41 < zyp> what part is not sane here? :)
2018-10-17T19:05:04 < karlp> we've just got more people with single pole than double pole that's all.
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2018-10-17T19:14:19 < zyp> hmm, looks neat
2018-10-17T19:17:05 < zyp> what's the fusing requirement for the voltage inputs on the EM? I don't see anything in the datasheet about that
2018-10-17T19:18:23 < karlp> consult your local electrical code?
2018-10-17T19:18:31 < karlp> you're probably meant to like always, never seen anyone do it.
2018-10-17T19:19:07 < zyp> so just pulling them directly from the main breaker should be okay?
2018-10-17T19:19:16 < karlp> sure, it's how my house has it.
2018-10-17T19:19:29 < karlp> as long as it's properly on a breaker
2018-10-17T19:19:40 < zyp> main breaker is 40A
2018-10-17T19:19:43 < karlp> I think the office has them on a separate breaker.
2018-10-17T19:20:13 < karlp> they're just voltage dividers like any other meter, plus it powers the EM mains section from l1/N
2018-10-17T19:20:27 < karlp> again, norwegians are the only people that give us grief with this.
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2018-10-17T19:20:33 < zyp> I wouldn't want to put in a dedicated three phase breaker just for it
2018-10-17T19:20:41 < karlp> nah, fuck that, I wouldn't
2018-10-17T19:21:31 < zyp> so, how much does this stuff cost? :p
2018-10-17T19:21:55 < karlp> let me grab a current price shet
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2018-10-17T19:25:29 -!- mawk changed the topic of ##stm32 to: I'm your op, bend around and kiss the ground
2018-10-17T19:25:49 -!- mawk changed the topic of ##stm32 to: I'm your op, bend over and kiss the ground
2018-10-17T19:26:21 < zyp> please
2018-10-17T19:27:00 -!- jadew [~razvan@unaffiliated/jadew] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-17T19:28:24 -!- mawk changed the topic of ##stm32 to: I'm your op, bend over and kiss the ground
2018-10-17T19:29:01 < zyp> mawk, yeah yeah, please fix it now
2018-10-17T19:30:13 < antto> u so naughty
2018-10-17T19:30:25 < karlp> should be under 100eur for 12pin, and about 50 or something for 3 pin.  dudes who look after this are both out today.
2018-10-17T19:30:53 < zyp> just for the EB?
2018-10-17T19:30:54 < karlp> I know they've been targeting ~7€ per point or something.
2018-10-17T19:31:07 < karlp> yeah, 
2018-10-17T19:31:08 < zyp> including the CTs?
2018-10-17T19:31:15 < karlp> with it's cts yes,
2018-10-17T19:31:27 < zyp> how much for the EG and the EM?
2018-10-17T19:31:29 < Steffanx> Wut, how can you even do that mawk
2018-10-17T19:31:56 < karlp> em is more, unfortunately, but you only need that if you want "Power Sync"
2018-10-17T19:32:08 < karlp> and gateway is 200 or something.
2018-10-17T19:32:22 < karlp> that's another one that is waiting a cost reduce version
2018-10-17T19:32:48 < karlp> seriously, add bars to your own stuff, get all those channels of current readings 
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2018-10-17T19:33:20 < zyp> I'm not planning to put any of my own stuff in the main breaker panel
2018-10-17T19:33:36 < karlp> ye of little faith :)
2018-10-17T19:35:14 < jadew> my poor spelling sometimes pays off
2018-10-17T19:35:18 < antto> Steffanx he's a h4x0r
2018-10-17T19:35:35 < jadew> I wanted to google for a paper shear and googled for "sheer", on google images
2018-10-17T19:36:30 < antto> i duckduckgo'ed for "the red guy buttwalk gif" but.. i got pr0n pics
2018-10-17T19:36:32 < upgrdman> anyone know if the network% shown in windows task manager included loopback packets? too lazy to test :)
2018-10-17T19:37:06 < upgrdman> e.g. if my program tx's 100Mbps to localhost, i want to see 100Mbps in taskman, even though no packets left the pc
2018-10-17T19:38:33 < jadew> upgrdman, I don't think it does
2018-10-17T19:38:46 < upgrdman> k
2018-10-17T19:39:29 < jadew> in fact, if you want to sniff the localhost traffic you have to install some extra stuff
2018-10-17T19:39:51 < upgrdman> i dont want to sniff, just count
2018-10-17T19:40:17 < Steffanx> idk if the resource manager can give you some info
2018-10-17T19:40:22 < jadew> yeah, but if wireshark isn't seeing it as network traffic, probably the task manager isn't seeing like that either
2018-10-17T19:40:55 < upgrdman> planning to write a more advanced "tester" for my telemetry viewer. it will send fake telemetry to localhost, and i want to see how hard i can push things before cpu/gpu is at 100%. but i plan to dev this while sitting in a plane, so no internet to help me if i have questions then :)
2018-10-17T19:41:30 < upgrdman> i guess worse comes to worse, my tester can count how many bytes it's tx'ing
2018-10-17T19:42:35 < karlp> upgrdman: "ifconfig"?
2018-10-17T19:42:54 < upgrdman> windows, not linux
2018-10-17T19:43:11 < karlp> bah, object benchmarks from lua are twice as fast. tested it into the real world application. can't measure any difference.
2018-10-17T19:43:38 < antto> tcpview is related to networks stuffz
2018-10-17T19:44:26 < antto> u can see teh individual sockets
2018-10-17T19:46:45 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Steffanx] by ChanServ
2018-10-17T19:46:49 -!- mads- was kicked from ##stm32 by Steffanx [Meh]
2018-10-17T19:46:50 <@Steffanx> whops
2018-10-17T19:46:55 -!- Ecco [~user@LFbn-1-3156-121.w90-79.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-17T19:46:56 < antto> aww
2018-10-17T19:46:58 -!- mawk was kicked from ##stm32 by Steffanx [Meh]
2018-10-17T19:47:03 -!- Steffanx changed the topic of ##stm32 to: "STM32 | This channel is publicly logged ( http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/ ) | IRC wisdom: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips | Don't ask to ask | http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/
2018-10-17T19:47:09 -!- Steffanx changed the topic of ##stm32 to: STM32 | This channel is publicly logged ( http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/ ) | IRC wisdom: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips | Don't ask to ask | http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/
2018-10-17T19:47:14 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
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2018-10-17T19:47:17 < antto> Steffanx ur not gonna b teh next Ronaldo
2018-10-17T19:47:19 -!- Ecco is now known as Guest91306
2018-10-17T19:47:33 < antto> such innacurate kick
2018-10-17T19:47:38 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Steffanx] by ChanServ
2018-10-17T19:47:42 < antto> /o\
2018-10-17T19:47:42 < jadew> adjustments to the matrix?
2018-10-17T19:47:54 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
2018-10-17T19:48:05 -!- mawk [sabu@znc.serveur.io] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-17T19:48:23 < Steffanx> antto, i heard ronando also kicked the wrong woman and is now sued for it :P
2018-10-17T19:48:39 < Steffanx> ronaldo, lol.
2018-10-17T19:48:44 < antto> supposedly he used his middle leg
2018-10-17T19:48:52 < Steffanx> That's what i heard.
2018-10-17T19:49:06 < jadew> so it was slap
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2018-10-17T19:52:08 < Steffanx> You're no longer welcome in the netherlands, mawk :P
2018-10-17T19:56:32 < englishman> zyp: i'd also like to do something like that. openpowermonitor looks overpriced and underdeveloped. so until then it's $20 china stuff
2018-10-17T19:56:33 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/mQy0XJ9.jpg
2018-10-17T19:57:18 < zyp> yeah, that's not interesting
2018-10-17T19:57:39 < englishman> no, but it is useful, and installed now vs. months from now
2018-10-17T19:57:51 < mawk> why Steffanx :(
2018-10-17T19:58:04 < mawk> I already have the passport
2018-10-17T20:07:27 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a02:8071:9289:5900:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-17T20:11:37 < karlp> user0m1.637s vs user0m1.588s
2018-10-17T20:11:42 < karlp> I guess that's an improvement.
2018-10-17T20:11:49 < karlp> should run this on shittier hardware to test.
2018-10-17T20:14:06 < mawk> there are tools to get timing inside code blocks
2018-10-17T20:14:24 < mawk> if only I attended my parallel programming classes I could tell you
2018-10-17T20:20:39 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Quit: Meh]
2018-10-17T20:21:11 < englishman> karlp those prices are pretty attractive
2018-10-17T20:21:38 < englishman> is there any user interface or is that up to the user to implement (in influxdb+grafana)
2018-10-17T20:25:02 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-17T20:25:31 < englishman> which
2018-10-17T20:26:05 < zyp> englishman, I'm just interested in throwing the data on mqtt and integrate it with other stuff
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2018-10-17T20:32:55 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-17T20:37:47 < englishman> where is billy
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2018-10-17T20:51:45 < englishman> i guess his irc career is over
2018-10-17T20:54:06 -!- sterna [~Adium@m176-71-125-245.cust.tele2.se] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-17T21:07:07 < Steffanx> Why did this happen? Do you know?
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2018-10-17T21:12:05 < Steffanx> hah good.
2018-10-17T21:12:21 < Steffanx> better get that 1M aud to get it back
2018-10-17T21:14:21 -!- comptroller [~comptroll@47-213-222-253.paolcmtc01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net] has quit [Excess Flood]
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2018-10-17T21:30:28 < Steffanx> worst of it all, no more billy the cat pics
2018-10-17T21:36:03 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/4ZeX0xa.png
2018-10-17T21:36:05 < bitmask> not bad for an acrylic frame
2018-10-17T21:43:00 < bitmask> your welcome?
2018-10-17T21:43:15 < kakimir> dinner with boss
2018-10-17T21:43:19 < bitmask> is your life complete now?
2018-10-17T21:43:59 < Steffanx> Try charlie.
2018-10-17T21:45:48 < kakimir> netflix apparently bingewatched itself the whole series while I fell a sleep
2018-10-17T21:54:06 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a02:8071:9289:5900:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2018-10-17T21:55:59 < englishman> fucking imgur
2018-10-17T21:56:07 < englishman> trying to upload bespoke soldermask colours
2018-10-17T21:56:12 < englishman> to show off to ##stm32 bros
2018-10-17T21:58:01 < Steffanx> time to use a real man hosting.
2018-10-17T21:58:08 < Steffanx> mawk has one
2018-10-17T21:58:19 < englishman> photobucket ftw
2018-10-17T22:00:42 < englishman> thanks i would prefer a non-pedophile image host
2018-10-17T22:00:50 < Steffanx> :P
2018-10-17T22:04:29 < zyp> bin.jvnv.net is the shit
2018-10-17T22:05:09 < englishman> i said NON pedophile
2018-10-17T22:09:29 < zyp> hah
2018-10-17T22:11:21 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-17T22:13:04 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/pvWtb6y.jpg?1
2018-10-17T22:13:05 < kakimir> google drive
2018-10-17T22:13:45 < kakimir> to view photos your browser needs to download a tonne of scripts
2018-10-17T22:16:56 < zyp> englishman, wat
2018-10-17T22:17:05 < englishman> ?
2018-10-17T22:17:24 < zyp> what's up with that red board?
2018-10-17T22:17:33 < englishman> i wanted a dark matte orange
2018-10-17T22:17:41 < zyp> other boards been drilled on top of it?
2018-10-17T22:17:53 < englishman> oh its just some spare pcb
2018-10-17T22:18:29 < zyp> sample from fab and they just slapped a custom mask on some random scrap?
2018-10-17T22:18:33 < englishman> yeah
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2018-10-17T22:18:40 < zyp> okay, that makes more sense
2018-10-17T22:18:55 < zyp> I like the pink
2018-10-17T22:19:01 < englishman> same
2018-10-17T22:19:01 < zyp> very kawaii
2018-10-17T22:19:07 < englishman> got it nice on their first try
2018-10-17T22:19:19 < englishman> they also have lavender silkscreen
2018-10-17T22:19:57 < zyp> what's those things with four holes and ten smt pads?
2018-10-17T22:20:14 < zyp> buttons with rgb leds or something?
2018-10-17T22:20:25 < englishman> my guess is the pth part is on the other side
2018-10-17T22:20:36 < englishman> and that component is some DFN power fet
2018-10-17T22:21:02 < zyp> the smt shit looks a bit too close even for selective wave
2018-10-17T22:21:51 < englishman> could be hand assembly, these guys are not a big quantity shop
2018-10-17T22:22:08 < englishman> they do some space shit
2018-10-17T22:22:21 < englishman> there's one board i saw that's cool, a company puts resistive material underneath the copper
2018-10-17T22:22:33 < englishman> so you etch it out after the copper is etched, and you can have PCB resistors
2018-10-17T22:22:40 < englishman> used on some 8 and 11GHz boards
2018-10-17T22:23:00 < zyp> fun
2018-10-17T22:23:14 < englishman> no lead inductances to worry about
2018-10-17T22:23:56 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/7NlD7Lh.jpg?1
2018-10-17T22:24:33 < zyp> that's really neat
2018-10-17T22:26:42 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/cHNMIGb.jpg
2018-10-17T22:26:58 < englishman> zyp, it is 0603s and a ssot
2018-10-17T22:27:10 < englishman> probably enough room for selective solder
2018-10-17T22:31:09 -!- Hamilton [~Hamilton@unaffiliated/hamilton] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2018-10-17T22:37:33 < kakimir> I love the color
2018-10-17T22:38:16 < bitmask> the first pic where it looks lighter and more purple actually matches your name on my irc client
2018-10-17T22:40:08 < bitmask> hmm, what to do
2018-10-17T22:40:15 < bitmask> I should clean
2018-10-17T22:43:18 < Steffanx> Yes make the gf happy
2018-10-17T22:52:15 < jadew> any experience with dry film photoresist?
2018-10-17T22:52:40 < jadew> or any kind of photoresist for that matter
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2018-10-17T23:21:38 < englishman> https://v.redd.it/1a5v9jrodrs11/DASH_2_4_M
2018-10-17T23:22:01 < jadew> haha
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2018-10-17T23:26:28 < BrainDamage> yes, spray on is a mess and get the premade one
2018-10-17T23:26:59 < BrainDamage> ff it's positive photoresist, NaOH works perfectly as developer
2018-10-17T23:27:14 < BrainDamage> why are you bothering with manual photoresist in $currentyear
2018-10-17T23:27:41 < jadew> BrainDamage, I want to prototype on some rogers laminate and that's not cheap to do even in China
2018-10-17T23:28:09 < BrainDamage> laminate on is probably easiest, make sure it's positive and not negative photoresist
2018-10-17T23:28:11 < jadew> also, I'll probably have to go through a few revisions in a short time
2018-10-17T23:28:32 < BrainDamage> do you have the lamps too?
2018-10-17T23:28:41 < jadew> I do, I made an UV box a while ago
2018-10-17T23:29:20 < jadew> I only used presensitised boards, they worked fine
2018-10-17T23:29:45 < BrainDamage> if you use spray on, getting an even coating is a bitch
2018-10-17T23:29:56 < BrainDamage> either use indirect spray and let it "rain"
2018-10-17T23:30:11 < BrainDamage> or if you're insane like me, make a small spin coating jig
2018-10-17T23:30:19 < BrainDamage> careful of lateral splatter
2018-10-17T23:31:00 < BrainDamage> ( just affix it to a drill and spin while spraying small amounds in the center
2018-10-17T23:31:18 < jadew> yeah, I saw some photos with the spray method and that's what I noticed as well... uneven distribution
2018-10-17T23:31:44 < jadew> just found out about the dry film option and it seems much more reliable
2018-10-17T23:36:36 < jadew> ok... I'm not clear about this negative/positive thing
2018-10-17T23:37:01 < jadew> what's not clear is to what exactly it's refering to
2018-10-17T23:37:10 < jadew> to the photo resist itself or to my transparent print?
2018-10-17T23:38:36 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoresist#/media/File:Photoresist_of_Photolithography.png
2018-10-17T23:39:15 < jadew> got it, so the mask and the photoresist
2018-10-17T23:39:39 < BrainDamage> positive photoresist means that where the mask is, there will be no etch
2018-10-17T23:39:48 < BrainDamage> so you draw the traces on the mask as if on the circuit
2018-10-17T23:40:54 < jadew> yeah
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2018-10-17T23:41:04 < jadew> looks like the cheap one I found on ebay is negative
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2018-10-17T23:58:29 < jadew> BrainDamage, thanks for the heads up on positive/negative, but it looks like all the available dry film on ebay is negative
--- Day changed Thu Oct 18 2018
2018-10-18T00:02:13 < jadew> I wrote something for video files but I haven't used it in a while
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2018-10-18T00:04:31 < BrainDamage> just create a playlist
2018-10-18T00:04:35 < BrainDamage> then you can track progress
2018-10-18T00:05:46 < jadew> you're on linux?
2018-10-18T00:06:04 < jadew> I know, but not many people use that
2018-10-18T00:09:31 < jadew> like that?
2018-10-18T00:09:46 < jadew> did you get my notice?
2018-10-18T00:10:36 < karlp> englishman: we've got a live view, but it's mostly for diagnostics.  you're expected to use one of our partner sowftware companies, or add your own integration.  there's a json/text mqtt stream of all the live data, and also 1/5/15/60min aggregations to do what you want with.
2018-10-18T00:10:47 < jadew> sent as a message
2018-10-18T00:10:49 < jadew> got it?
2018-10-18T00:11:08 < jadew> no... like /msg
2018-10-18T00:11:09 < jadew> wth
2018-10-18T00:11:22 < jadew> I'm trying to send you a link
2018-10-18T00:12:04 < qyx> meanwhile in norway http://www.autoforum.cz/tmp/magazin/sr/Smutne_konce_norske_elektricke_pohadky_2018_rijen_Perex_800_600.jpg
2018-10-18T00:12:07 < qyx> zyp: ^
2018-10-18T00:15:15 < zyp> qyx, haha, wat
2018-10-18T00:17:08 < qyx> apparently some NAF organization is trying to imagine how would it look like in 2025
2018-10-18T00:17:26 < zyp> ah, NAF
2018-10-18T00:17:28 < emeb> Just for giggles I got a quote from Segger for emWin.
2018-10-18T00:17:46 < emeb> $23,000 for a multi-product source license.
2018-10-18T00:19:33 < qyx> use ugfx then
2018-10-18T00:19:43 < emeb> yep
2018-10-18T00:19:56 < emeb> already on it.
2018-10-18T00:20:13 < qyx> there should be a special discount for ##stm32
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2018-10-18T00:43:42 < catphish> wow, this model railway DCC thing actually encodes the control signals in the power directly
2018-10-18T00:45:20 < zyp> where else? :)
2018-10-18T00:45:47 < BrainDamage> could use radio
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2018-10-18T00:46:33 < emeb> IoT - Internet of Trains
2018-10-18T00:48:57 < englishman> karlp: pretty neat.
2018-10-18T00:49:20 < karlp> what we don't have is arduino programming or raspberry pis.
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2018-10-18T00:56:59 < catphish> zyp: no, i mean i assumed that there was a DC or VLF power component, and a HF signal component mixed together, but in reality the signal is encoded by modulating the power itself
2018-10-18T00:57:43 < BrainDamage> ... that's the same thing
2018-10-18T00:57:54 < catphish> no it's not
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2018-10-18T00:58:24 < BrainDamage> the moment it's not constant it's not dc but a dc + modulation
2018-10-18T00:59:01 < catphish> i suppose technically it's the same thing :(
2018-10-18T00:59:17 < catphish> but very different implementation
2018-10-18T01:00:33 < catphish> the point is that there is no DC component at all, only the signal, which is then rectified for power
2018-10-18T01:01:54 < BrainDamage> if the average is non 0, then there's a DC component :P but yes, that's kind of neat if the modulation index reaches 100%
2018-10-18T01:02:15 < BrainDamage> there's radios that exploit a similar principle, eg crystal radios
2018-10-18T01:02:20 < zyp> the average is 0 or close to it, it's using something like manchester encoding
2018-10-18T01:06:09 < catphish> it's a frequency modulated square wave, so the average is zero
2018-10-18T01:06:43 < catphish> each bit is a +VCC followed by the same period of -VCC
2018-10-18T01:06:58 < catphish> the length indicates the sexual orientation of the bit
2018-10-18T01:07:30 < kakimir> sexual orientation of the bit
2018-10-18T01:11:23 < catphish> https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/s-9.1_electrical_standards_2006.pdf
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2018-10-18T01:45:50 < upgrdman> damn, the bugmenot accounts for LinkedIn are all blocked :/
2018-10-18T01:45:59 < upgrdman> anyone know of a throwaway for linkedin?
2018-10-18T02:08:13 < zyp> just make one?
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2018-10-18T02:46:34 < branjb> what is a bugmenot account?
2018-10-18T02:50:44 < jadew> it's an instant e-mail address you can use to signup then forget about it
2018-10-18T02:51:06 < jadew> what I'd like is something to prevent ebay from sending me messages through the message center
2018-10-18T02:51:13 < jadew> I get daily deals I don't care about
2018-10-18T02:51:19 < jadew> and there's no way to stop them
2018-10-18T02:51:30 < catphish> you could just unsubscribe
2018-10-18T02:51:37 < jadew> you can't
2018-10-18T02:51:55 < catphish> how odd
2018-10-18T02:51:55 < jadew> that's all it says at the bottom: Visit our User Agreement and Privacy Notice.
2018-10-18T02:52:17 < jadew> probably implying that as long as you use their site they can put any garbage they want in your account's inbox
2018-10-18T02:53:25 < catphish> who are these emails from?
2018-10-18T02:53:51 < jadew> ebay themselves
2018-10-18T02:53:59 < jadew> they're not emails tho
2018-10-18T02:54:16 < jadew> I mean, they are, but inside the ebay account
2018-10-18T02:54:30 < jadew> I don't get them in the associated e-mail account, just in "my messages"
2018-10-18T02:54:30 < catphish> hmm, i see, i've never received such a thin
2018-10-18T02:54:32 < catphish> *thing
2018-10-18T02:54:47 < catphish> sounds anonying
2018-10-18T02:55:03 < jadew> it is
2018-10-18T02:55:18 < jadew> I don't receive them on my personal account either, but on this seller account, I do
2018-10-18T02:55:52 < jadew> and it gets in the way, because I want to see 0 there if nobody is messaging me
2018-10-18T02:56:07 < jadew> instead I get to check what new garbage ebay has decided to send
2018-10-18T02:58:51 < bitmask> anyone use klipper + octoprint?
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2018-10-18T03:19:35 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9kTeEshewY
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2018-10-18T03:40:21 < jadew> so check this out, I found out that paypal was automatically rejecting payments to my account without informing me
2018-10-18T03:40:43 < jadew> meaning that anyone who tried to buy from me on ebay, couldn't
2018-10-18T03:46:03 < jadew> they said I have something enabled in my account
2018-10-18T03:46:21 < jadew> the only thing I had enabled was that I was supposed to accept/decline any payment not in a currency I hold in my account
2018-10-18T03:46:26 < jadew> I got no such notifications
2018-10-18T03:47:17 < jadew> I don't have spam filtering activated
2018-10-18T03:47:41 < jadew> I had USD and EUR and the listing was in GBP
2018-10-18T03:48:10 < jadew> something regarding risky payments - that's the only thing I had in that section
2018-10-18T03:48:20 < jadew> yeah, but it was set so I got contacted first
2018-10-18T03:48:25 < jadew> to confirm/reject the payment
2018-10-18T03:48:54 < jadew> there's no report anywhere of that event ever happening, and I know for sure there is one because the buyer contacted them and then me
2018-10-18T03:52:21 < jadew> Cracki, you mean the point where the customer tries to pay?
2018-10-18T03:52:54 < jadew> nah, he was able to pay from my website
2018-10-18T03:52:58 < jadew> also through paypal
2018-10-18T03:53:03 < jadew> but in USD
2018-10-18T03:53:45 < jadew> I added GBP as a currency to the account now... but what bothers me is that I might have lost clients because of it and I don't even know it
2018-10-18T03:54:24 < jadew> they probably won't even check my listings anymore, since some of them might have taken that as a red flag and thought it could be a scam
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2018-10-18T05:07:59 < jadew> https://imgur.com/gallery/A47xf1o
2018-10-18T05:13:13 < upgrdman> oh so that's how a rotor is wound   https://i.imgur.com/QopFXis.gifv
2018-10-18T05:36:59 < fenugrec> hmm, seems like most cheap PCB fabhouses are now doing 50x50mm as their default deal now ? (jlc, allpcb, dirty)
2018-10-18T05:37:26 < fenugrec> my bad, jlc is 100x100 but 25$ shipping kills it
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2018-10-18T05:54:52 < jadew> fenugrec, jlc is a scam
2018-10-18T05:55:24 < jadew> use seeed or elecrow
2018-10-18T05:55:26 < fenugrec> jadew, good to know, how so ?
2018-10-18T05:55:38 < jadew> cheap first pcb batch, high shipping
2018-10-18T05:55:47 < jadew> next pcb batch you add to the order is also expensive
2018-10-18T05:56:17 < jadew> and it's the same quality as everywhere else
2018-10-18T05:57:09 < fenugrec> ok, I vaguely remember reading that JLC used the same fabs as some other cheaphouses
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2018-10-18T06:36:24 < dongs> hi dongs
2018-10-18T06:36:38 < dongs> aandrew: youre wright
2018-10-18T06:36:41 < dongs> er, right too
2018-10-18T06:36:43 < dongs> also: https://gfycat.com/GrandioseCoordinatedBlacklab
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2018-10-18T07:03:01 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/Ql53S4Y.jpg
2018-10-18T07:11:55 < jadew> does anything sexy ever happens on gfycat or am I wasting my time watching it on autoplay?
2018-10-18T07:15:57 < dongs> hi stvn
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2018-10-18T08:15:28 < dongs> let's pump
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2018-10-18T08:58:16 < Ultrasauce> one pump over the line
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2018-10-18T10:38:43 < dongs> thats not how you pump
2018-10-18T10:38:59 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/4ZeX0xa.png
2018-10-18T10:39:02 < bitmask> thats how you pump
2018-10-18T10:39:42 < Ultrasauce> your shit has come a long way
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2018-10-18T10:40:40 < bitmask> Don't think I'm gonna get much better that that with this setup, but thats fine by me
2018-10-18T10:42:19 < bitmask> I spent all day installing octoprint and klipper.  I think its ready but I need sleep now
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2018-10-18T11:27:28 < qyx> innovating semtechs
2018-10-18T11:28:15 < qyx> so far the RX duty cycle is 1/20 and it still manages to receive with ~95% packet success rate
2018-10-18T11:33:58 < kakimir> what type is PRIli?
2018-10-18T11:40:26 < aandrew> Woot. nRF TDMA network passed testing. Flying home now. 
2018-10-18T11:40:33 < aandrew> This is the dev shit I love. 
2018-10-18T11:40:45 < dongs> https://www.techradar.com/news/google-adds-option-to-disable-auto-sign-in-to-chrome-after-privacy-backlash ha ha lol
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2018-10-18T11:45:59 < kakimir> it pissed me off that google chrome automatically logged in
2018-10-18T11:46:28 < kakimir> I was careful not to do that myself - ever
2018-10-18T11:48:03 < dongs> you can fix it now
2018-10-18T11:48:25 < dongs> chrome://flags/#account-consistency and set that to disabled and restart
2018-10-18T11:48:46 < dongs> and when v71 is released i guess that will be tied to that option thats in the above article
2018-10-18T11:51:14 < kakimir> that was really long time ago
2018-10-18T11:54:34 < kakimir> I notice i'm at youtubes and my account name has changed
2018-10-18T11:54:46 < kakimir> fuufuu there is 2 accounts
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2018-10-18T12:30:11 < kakimir> ^
2018-10-18T12:44:04 < karlp> aandrew: this was proprietary 2.4gig stuff you developed right?
2018-10-18T12:44:22 < karlp> was it based on BT or 802.15.4 lower levels? or raw nrf stuff?
2018-10-18T12:44:26 < dongs> he's over syria getting shot at with surface to air missile
2018-10-18T12:44:29 < dongs> raw nrf i think
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2018-10-18T13:36:35 < mawk> ST has offices in NL but they only do sales
2018-10-18T13:36:55 < mawk> and some co-student of mine is giving ST internships but only in France
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2018-10-18T13:37:19 < mawk> I should fine something else
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2018-10-18T14:20:26 < jadew> first guy ever to pick up chicks with his electronics skills: https://youtu.be/vK0cJT-Va8U?t=1236
2018-10-18T14:21:53 < malinus> jadew: I expected some kind of machine that picks up small chickens
2018-10-18T14:21:57 < kakimir> electronics don't attract chicks?
2018-10-18T14:22:19 < malinus> not a guy getting distracted by people
2018-10-18T14:22:19 < jadew> malinus, hah
2018-10-18T14:23:08 < jadew> kakimir, sure it does, you don't have any groupies?
2018-10-18T14:25:03 < malinus> I will soon start working in the music industry (embedded), making guitar pedals. I expect it to be like being a rock star myself?
2018-10-18T14:26:43 < malinus> :(
2018-10-18T14:26:53 < kakimir> :)
2018-10-18T14:27:04 < kakimir> branding
2018-10-18T14:27:20 < malinus> Haohmaru: it's for a big company.
2018-10-18T14:27:40 < jadew> pff... just say it's using cristal technology or some shit audiophools buy
2018-10-18T14:27:46 < jadew> lots of those in the music industry
2018-10-18T14:27:57 < malinus> one of the biggest but I rather not dox myself :). 
2018-10-18T14:28:13 < malinus> jadew: yeah they don't do any of that stuff, luckly
2018-10-18T14:28:36 < malinus> they don't really do snake-oil
2018-10-18T14:29:24 < malinus> all 3 :P
2018-10-18T14:29:36 < malinus> mostly dsp though
2018-10-18T14:30:03 < jadew> what a stupid concept these pedals...
2018-10-18T14:30:16 < jadew> they can just have a box with external switches
2018-10-18T14:30:30 < jadew> and they can have cheap pedal switches connected to it
2018-10-18T14:30:44 < jadew> why buy different pedals?
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2018-10-18T14:31:05 < jadew> like that box would
2018-10-18T14:32:13 < jadew> you can have different stickers on the pedals or something
2018-10-18T14:32:24 < jadew> you can have them custom painted
2018-10-18T14:32:32 < jadew> they should just be switches, that's my point
2018-10-18T14:32:58 < jadew> I have a pedal too... fucking waste of money
2018-10-18T14:33:29 < jadew> haha
2018-10-18T14:34:05 < malinus> I get your point jadew, and I think that's how it's done in a lot of studios. But I think most consumer just want 1-3 pedals, and they are easy to tweak and move. Which is a big plus compared to some box.
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2018-10-18T14:35:49 < malinus> jadew: also people hate setting things up. So a box with 34933 settings might be fun for a nerd, but I think the average guy that want a classic pedal sound would rather just buy a pedal that gives him X sound and has two knobs.
2018-10-18T14:36:11 < malinus> I don't know a lot about the domain and the business side of things though
2018-10-18T14:37:19 < jadew> you just need one button - apple style
2018-10-18T14:37:27 < BrainDamage> the main annoyance of pedals is that you cannot program them for songs
2018-10-18T14:38:01 < BrainDamage> pedals with an optional midi input for store/recall banks is the ideal middle ground
2018-10-18T14:38:18 < BrainDamage> so you can use them standalone, or automatic
2018-10-18T14:38:22 < karlp> nah, bluetooth and a phone app....
2018-10-18T14:38:26 < karlp> that's the modern way right?
2018-10-18T14:38:34  * karlp laughs
2018-10-18T14:38:47 < BrainDamage> there's actually midi over bluetooth le
2018-10-18T14:38:52 < karlp> I'm semiserious though, why do I need to bring my midi controller for this?
2018-10-18T14:38:57 < karlp> I'm a guitarist.
2018-10-18T14:39:01 < karlp> the fuck do I know about midi?
2018-10-18T14:39:09 < karlp> I just want presets on my pedals
2018-10-18T14:39:26 < karlp> it's not "cool" for me to have a computer, I'm a guitarist!
2018-10-18T14:39:28 < BrainDamage> yes, but you need something to send the preset selection
2018-10-18T14:40:03 < BrainDamage> ps. I actually use myself midi over bluetooth le for my midi pedalboard
2018-10-18T14:40:09 < BrainDamage> yes, and they are garbage in general
2018-10-18T14:40:15 < BrainDamage> they have prefixed chains
2018-10-18T14:40:29 < BrainDamage> pedals are flexible, you can chain 3 pedals no problem
2018-10-18T14:40:47 < BrainDamage> the DSP pedalboards lets you have a fixed pipeline with 1 max 2 effects chained
2018-10-18T14:40:55 < malinus> karlp: I've seen phone app, but you change the setting with the guitar pickup (it generates sound)
2018-10-18T14:40:55 < karlp> BrainDamage: just suggesting that a phone might be more appealing that a laptop
2018-10-18T14:41:03 < malinus> karlp: the phone generates sound
2018-10-18T14:41:03 < BrainDamage> I never said a laptop
2018-10-18T14:41:20 < BrainDamage> there are midi pedalboards that send signals
2018-10-18T14:41:24 < BrainDamage> I use one myself
2018-10-18T14:41:34 < BrainDamage> and many guitarists do as well
2018-10-18T14:42:01 < BrainDamage> but usually if you use those, the only effects that can be bank switched are rack mounted, instead of pedal-mounted
2018-10-18T14:43:15 < malinus> also, when writing dsp code, do you have to write shitty code? I've never seen non-shitty dsp code. I bet it's because it's all written by mathematicians and not programmers.
2018-10-18T14:44:11 < karlp> I bet emeb has nice dsp code.
2018-10-18T14:44:16 < BrainDamage> every microcosm of society that involves programming not done by professional CS ends up reinventing the wheel in a way
2018-10-18T14:44:32 < BrainDamage> but lacks the basis for doing it well
2018-10-18T14:44:35 < karlp> "I don't know how to program, but let me show you my excel sheets...."
2018-10-18T14:45:18 < malinus> ever seen good matlab code?
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2018-10-18T14:45:36 < malinus> Haohmaru: yeah I think I know which one you mean :P
2018-10-18T14:46:07 < malinus> Haohmaru: looks like some copy-pasted code from the matlab threads and addopted to C/C++
2018-10-18T14:46:31 < malinus> I could imagine
2018-10-18T14:46:40 < BrainDamage> people having good cross domain skills are rare in general
2018-10-18T14:47:41 < BrainDamage> the general solution is "get a team and put people with different competences", but not all projects allow teams of a sufficiently large size
2018-10-18T14:48:05 < BrainDamage> hence individuals with cross-domain skills still get an edge for small projects
2018-10-18T14:48:25 < BrainDamage> but fail for more specialized knowledge in large teams
2018-10-18T14:48:26 < BrainDamage> except maybe as coordinators
2018-10-18T14:50:18 < BrainDamage> btw karlp, this is what I use http://media.musiciansfriend.com/is/image/MMGS7/FCB1010-MIDI-Footcontroller/182469000000000-00-750x750.jpg
2018-10-18T14:51:21 < jadew> it applies to everything
2018-10-18T14:52:12 < jadew> but I do think that people who are really good at something, tend to have multi-domain abilities
2018-10-18T14:52:25 < BrainDamage> not necessarily at all
2018-10-18T14:53:02 < BrainDamage> it depends on the environment, if it requires multi-disciplinary skills, or single focused skillset
2018-10-18T14:53:20 < jadew> more than the usual at the very least, the reasoning being that if they're smart and smarts is cross-domain
2018-10-18T14:54:05 < jadew> sure, some may not care about other domains, but if they have the inclination, they'll have a higher chance at succeeding in both (or more), than average joe who already sucks at his main task
2018-10-18T14:54:41 < karlp> heh replacing objects with closures made my profiler stop giving me a single figure for the object, and instead figures for each closure.  awesome...
2018-10-18T14:55:02 < karlp> performs better, but illegible perf reports.
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2018-10-18T16:42:19 < BrainDamage> the one in the bottom is a politician fwiw
2018-10-18T16:42:35 < BrainDamage> matteo salvini
2018-10-18T16:42:43 < englishman> is he an stm32 expert or something
2018-10-18T16:43:15 < BrainDamage> probably, anyone can be a stm32 expert on irc
2018-10-18T16:43:55 < englishman> yeah i'm definitely not an stm32 expert
2018-10-18T16:44:12 < BrainDamage> can is not equal to must
2018-10-18T16:44:54 < BrainDamage> -Wno-all
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2018-10-18T16:49:25 < karlp> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/analog-devices-inc/ADUM5028-5BRIZ/ADUM5028-5BRIZ-ND/9485493   is more expensive and way less efficient than standard solutions from murata/recom/mornsun.  wha the fuck is the advantage here?
2018-10-18T16:49:29 < karlp> it's noiser too.
2018-10-18T16:49:37 < karlp> only thing I can think of is that it's thinner
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2018-10-18T17:08:01 < englishman> also SMT?
2018-10-18T17:08:11 < englishman> i have to solder 750 of those murata drop in ldo replacements next week
2018-10-18T17:08:58 < englishman> the smt ones from LT are like $25 so that price isnt that bad
2018-10-18T17:10:41 < englishman> oh they are isolating
2018-10-18T17:10:43 < englishman> nvm
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2018-10-18T17:17:52 < englishman> https://i.redd.it/7dyqlhxj7ys11.png
2018-10-18T17:17:54 < englishman> s t a g e d
2018-10-18T17:18:42 < BrainDamage> look at the orientation of the blades too
2018-10-18T17:19:14 < BrainDamage> in order to shred the painting they'd have to be rotated 90°
2018-10-18T17:22:43 < kakimir> that mechanism looks fake
2018-10-18T17:23:05 < kakimir> it has shredder bought from store inside I'm sure
2018-10-18T17:27:09 < karlp> englishman: https://power.murata.com/en/mte1s0505mc.html 
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2018-10-18T17:34:13 < englishman> much more pleasant package
2018-10-18T17:34:17 < englishman> maybe vibration resistance
2018-10-18T17:35:13  * karlp shrugs
2018-10-18T17:43:46 < tctw_> wtf is this trolling @ reddit link from englishman 
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2018-10-18T18:15:54 < PaulFertser> tctw_: probably a post-post-modern contemporary art ironic reference to the famous photostock pics.
2018-10-18T18:17:07 < BrainDamage> tfw incompetence is indistinguishable from artistic irony
2018-10-18T18:17:15 < PaulFertser> Not sure if it's famous enough for banksy though. And probably the auction officials were in the know.
2018-10-18T18:17:29 < Steffanx> will we ever know?
2018-10-18T18:17:36 < PaulFertser> Hehe, indeed, BrainDamage.
2018-10-18T18:20:33 < PaulFertser> Does it really matter Steffanx, does it matter whether https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_Shit really got his shit inside?..
2018-10-18T18:20:55 < kakimir> I have trouble figuring out this simple stuff
2018-10-18T18:21:13 < kakimir> I have frequency of timer
2018-10-18T18:21:27 < kakimir> I try to convert seconds into timer value progress
2018-10-18T18:21:43 < kakimir> total lockdown
2018-10-18T18:22:25 < Steffanx> No, PaulFertser. but i do want to know if the auctioneers knew about it
2018-10-18T18:22:37 < Steffanx> the banksy crap that is
2018-10-18T18:23:33 < BrainDamage> if they xrayed the painting for bs analysis, they knew
2018-10-18T18:23:59 < kakimir> (SECONDS / (1 / TIMER1_FREQUENCY))
2018-10-18T18:24:15 < karlp> it also stoped perfectly 
2018-10-18T18:24:22 < karlp> maximizzzzze resale value and attention
2018-10-18T18:24:22 < kakimir> but that division will be 0
2018-10-18T18:25:20 < BrainDamage> I think the painting wasn't even shredded on the moment
2018-10-18T18:25:41 < Steffanx> you do know it kakimir
2018-10-18T18:25:43 < BrainDamage> tuning a jig to stop halfway can be tricky
2018-10-18T18:26:09 < BrainDamage> it's much simpler to have 2 paintings, one preshredded and one not, and roll out one while the other gets folded over
2018-10-18T18:26:10 < Steffanx> i bet your teacher told you about this very often back in primary school
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2018-10-18T18:30:32 < Steffanx> jakamalla murto-osaa kerrotaan päinvastaisella tavalla kakimir  :p
2018-10-18T18:30:41 < Steffanx> Not sure if it makes sense
2018-10-18T18:31:53 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-18T18:32:07 < kakimir> I had that in my mind but I had total lockdown
2018-10-18T18:32:21 < kakimir> just sweting and looking at it
2018-10-18T18:32:33 < kakimir> for a while..
2018-10-18T18:33:03 < kakimir> I cleaned my office meanwhile
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2018-10-18T18:33:51 < kakimir> if function is always passed a constant as parameter
2018-10-18T18:33:58 < kakimir> same constant
2018-10-18T18:34:18 < kakimir> parameter will be optimized out?
2018-10-18T18:34:39 < Steffanx> the a look at the assembly
2018-10-18T18:35:39 < Steffanx> im not sure, but i would say no
2018-10-18T18:36:07 < kakimir> optimized is not kakiproof
2018-10-18T18:36:11 < kakimir> optimizer*
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2018-10-18T18:49:00 < BrainDamage> pedals are about "economy"
2018-10-18T18:49:16 < BrainDamage> and freedom to wire them how you want
2018-10-18T18:50:08 < BrainDamage> the main stop switch is a bypass, for ease of use
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2018-10-18T18:51:08 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo6IEkEy0CE kakimusics sidetracks
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2018-10-18T19:08:33 < PaulFertser> https://www.artnome.com/news/2018/10/6/myth-busting-banksy 
2018-10-18T19:10:11 < jadew> doh... obviously banksy is a hipster with no skills who hired real engineers to do the job and what you see in the video is a glimpse into the mind of an idiot
2018-10-18T19:10:53 < Steffanx> no skills.
2018-10-18T19:11:13 < jadew> other than being a con artist
2018-10-18T19:11:28 < jadew> who managed to trick other idiots into thinking his shit is worth something
2018-10-18T19:11:42 < Steffanx> Isnt that what you do?
2018-10-18T19:12:23 < jadew> no, because tricking means taking advantage of the customer's naivity
2018-10-18T19:13:12 < jadew> everyone else tries to gain customers by showcasing actual value
2018-10-18T19:13:21 < Steffanx> And who makes up what art is worth. That's the people, not the artists (usually)
2018-10-18T19:13:46 < jadew> yeah, that's a tricky one
2018-10-18T19:13:54 < jadew> personally, I don't think art is worth very much
2018-10-18T19:13:59 < jadew> none of it
2018-10-18T19:14:29 < jadew> it's worth something, but not much
2018-10-18T19:15:37 < jadew> I wouldn't pay 1 second of my life for mona lisa if no other buyers were left alive
2018-10-18T19:15:56 < jadew> I might enjoy some music tho
2018-10-18T19:16:43 < Steffanx> Im happy/glad we're not all like you :P
2018-10-18T19:17:01 < jadew> I like art...
2018-10-18T19:17:30 < jadew> just not what that guy has made and I don't value it as high as the society seems to value it
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2018-10-18T19:35:46  * antto slaps kakimir with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjioYRnavms
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2018-10-18T19:55:43 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFCDk0JVanU more
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2018-10-18T19:58:44 < jadew> almost like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uutT2pMEPqk
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2018-10-18T20:12:20 < kakimir> hey this song
2018-10-18T20:12:37 < Steffanx> is awful
2018-10-18T20:12:55 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-18T20:14:08 < kakimir> almost added to favs because of "I know this song"
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2018-10-18T20:20:49 < kakimir> I think it is somewhere there already
2018-10-18T20:20:54 < kakimir> I have like 10k favs
2018-10-18T20:24:36 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CYa7PiYbGWNNEzjeGl3LkdLNbu20Ua6a/view?usp=sharing I can't make heads or tails about this
2018-10-18T20:25:12 < antto> i stopped pressing Like when youtube started attacking me from every direction with Beardyman videos
2018-10-18T20:25:17 < kakimir> same partners are in almost all categories too
2018-10-18T20:25:57 < kakimir> what do these partners have to do with site improvement purposes?
2018-10-18T20:26:02 < kakimir> in example
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2018-10-18T20:49:06 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjFdbLqwxMM
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2018-10-18T21:05:06 < Steffanx> Yeah, perhaps in 2013 that was funny englishman
2018-10-18T21:06:05 < englishman> go put your thumb in a dyke
2018-10-18T21:06:30 < jpa-> seems to work
2018-10-18T21:07:58 < Steffanx> Did you know that story is written by a yankee, englishman.
2018-10-18T21:08:31 < englishman> you guys rely on the yanks for everything
2018-10-18T21:08:58 < Steffanx> Yeah mate.
2018-10-18T21:09:19 < Steffanx> How was/is your day englishman
2018-10-18T21:09:27 < englishman> going gr8
2018-10-18T21:09:37 < englishman> fixed a big reliability problem with the dicknplace
2018-10-18T21:09:44 < englishman> now eating some banh xeo
2018-10-18T21:09:49 < englishman> how are you today stefs
2018-10-18T21:10:32 < Steffanx> My day was ok enough. Im ok though.
2018-10-18T21:11:13 < englishman> that's ok to hear
2018-10-18T21:11:28 < Steffanx> ty
2018-10-18T21:11:41 < jpa-> very ok
2018-10-18T21:12:16 < Steffanx> im glad to hear that jpa-
2018-10-18T21:13:15 < jpa-> i sat in car all day while parrot drove and now i'm at the source of infinite pancakes
2018-10-18T21:13:53 < Steffanx> parrot. The good old times :D
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2018-10-18T21:14:30 < jpa-> https://media.giphy.com/media/WfN2QoSJCoZaw/giphy.gif
2018-10-18T21:14:36 < jpa-> the classic
2018-10-18T21:15:00 < englishman> that parrot is very proud of himself
2018-10-18T21:16:55 < Steffanx> herself.
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2018-10-18T21:51:12 < invzim> n00b question, any useful stuff to use swo for other than ascii logging?
2018-10-18T21:51:51 < invzim> truestudio has all kinds of stuff that I have no clue what is for
2018-10-18T21:52:07 < jpa-> tracing
2018-10-18T21:52:24 < jpa-> http://essentialscrap.com/tips/arm_trace/   this kinda stuff
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2018-10-18T22:14:58 < invzim> jpa-: executive summary?
2018-10-18T22:15:27 < invzim> get low-level real-time stuff out of the core?
2018-10-18T22:24:04 < Steffanx> http://blog.atollic.com/cortex-m-debugging-real-time-variable-watch-using-swv/swo that stuff for example invzim .
2018-10-18T22:24:30 < Steffanx> that probably have more about it
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2018-10-18T22:30:04 < Steffanx> whoa a new project. Missed the ESP8266 walkie talkie
2018-10-18T22:31:43 < jpa-> you're not following failaday closely enough
2018-10-18T22:31:52 < Steffanx> was it on hackaday?
2018-10-18T22:32:53 < jpa-> yeah
2018-10-18T22:33:00 < Steffanx> Yeah, that's what i hate to deal with daily.
2018-10-18T22:33:11 < jpa-> with a dozen of comments "add some capacitors!"
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2018-10-18T22:37:33 < Steffanx> So in the end you just kinda redit your EMF wand, jpa- ?
2018-10-18T22:37:39 < Steffanx> redid.
2018-10-18T22:39:12 < karlp> invzim: I use it to trace out variables of interest directly on multiple channels, rather than having printf,
2018-10-18T22:39:22 < karlp> and I can then selectively turn channels on and off
2018-10-18T22:40:48 < mawk> that tawr sounds like a nice person
2018-10-18T22:42:35 < Steffanx> Who does
2018-10-18T22:46:03 < Steffanx> uh
2018-10-18T22:50:00 < Steffanx> hmm, i knew aussieland was in the future, but .. this far?
2018-10-18T22:55:54 < emeb> Steffanx: yesterday at Costco we found a giant box of stroopwafel - 40pcs
2018-10-18T22:56:41 < emeb> https://www.costco.com/Le-Chic-Patissier,-Original-Stroopwafels-,-2.77-lb,-3-count.product.100460865.html
2018-10-18T22:56:54 < emeb> it has the word original and a windmill
2018-10-18T22:57:00 < emeb> must be good!
2018-10-18T22:57:04 < Steffanx> Hah cool :)
2018-10-18T22:57:12 < Steffanx> but once you go Kanjer, you never go back. CRT knows.
2018-10-18T22:57:15 < Steffanx> idk this one
2018-10-18T22:57:19 < Steffanx> must be exporto nly
2018-10-18T22:57:39 < Steffanx> WARNING: Consuming this product can expose you to chemicals including Acrylamide, which are known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. For more information go to: www.P65Warnings.ca.gov/food.
2018-10-18T22:57:40 < Steffanx> LOL
2018-10-18T22:57:49 < emeb> yes - 2nd-class goods for the undiscerning yanqui tastes.
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2018-10-18T23:00:17 < Steffanx> most important question: did you buy emeb ?
2018-10-18T23:02:00 < BrainDamage> stroopwaffel powered car
2018-10-18T23:02:20 < BrainDamage> hello
2018-10-18T23:02:28 < Steffanx> fuck cars, bicycles is all you need
2018-10-18T23:03:07 < BrainDamage> try biking 200km
2018-10-18T23:03:13 < BrainDamage> or bikind under rain
2018-10-18T23:03:20 < BrainDamage> or transporting a passenger
2018-10-18T23:03:43 < englishman> thats when you take the 100kW bicycle
2018-10-18T23:03:45 < BrainDamage> also, trying to murder people on a bike is difficult
2018-10-18T23:04:04 < englishman> its easy, they fall right off
2018-10-18T23:04:34 < BrainDamage> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuPi7bJhavM
2018-10-18T23:04:54 < Steffanx> that italian.
2018-10-18T23:05:00 < Steffanx> that bike.
2018-10-18T23:05:32 < Steffanx> love it though
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2018-10-18T23:08:58 < Steffanx> have to repost this video on the dutch video dumb website BrainDamage . ty
2018-10-18T23:09:47 < Steffanx> yessir.
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2018-10-18T23:13:36 < zyp> Steffanx, sorry about the lack of photos recently, hope this helps: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bvbSU.jpg
2018-10-18T23:14:14 < Steffanx> ty
2018-10-18T23:16:39 < englishman> https://www.kmtronic.com/usb-relays.html?product_id=50
2018-10-18T23:16:41 < englishman> 33eur
2018-10-18T23:16:55 < qyx_> zyp: whats the lowered thing under the floor?
2018-10-18T23:16:59 < qyx_> *ceiling
2018-10-18T23:19:03 < zyp> qyx_, boxed in ventilation tubes
2018-10-18T23:19:17 < qyx_> ah
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2018-10-18T23:21:49 < zyp> it's kinda annoying, it results in me not being able to fit the dresser I would have preferred on the wall opposite the window
2018-10-18T23:22:21 < zyp> dresser I looked at is like 237cm tall, 300cm wide, wall is like 240cm tall, 310cm wide
2018-10-18T23:23:28 < zyp> yeah, the ventilation both sucks and blows
2018-10-18T23:34:17 < karlp> thos kmtronic stuff dont' have CE or UL anything at all.
2018-10-18T23:43:43 < Steffanx> At least
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--- Day changed Fri Oct 19 2018
2018-10-19T00:03:00 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68ugkg9RePc special song
2018-10-19T00:03:49 < Steffanx> good old song
2018-10-19T00:04:02 < Steffanx> nah it never gets old
2018-10-19T00:04:36 < englishman> about a little guy that lives in a stroop world
2018-10-19T00:04:48 < englishman> And all day and all night and everything he sees is just stroop
2018-10-19T00:04:59 < Steffanx> ill be there
2018-10-19T00:05:07 < Steffanx> will englishman bring some chicks?
2018-10-19T00:07:49 < englishman> too bad you cannot mount a MG42 on your Kübelwagen
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2018-10-19T00:28:31 < sync> why not englishman?
2018-10-19T00:29:33 < sync> http://www.history-making.com/wpsite/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/IMG_5444.jpg
2018-10-19T00:29:35 < sync> seems like you can
2018-10-19T00:30:56 < englishman> not in oz
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2018-10-19T01:56:14 < aandrew> Back in Canada. They made me remove my payot and yarmulke when I passed through security 
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2018-10-19T02:16:42 < cjbaird> Just spent a week helping a mate paint a house-- he fucked up by not giving enough time for what had to be done (or calling in pros..) Tenants moved in just then; we were painting and cleaning until 10pm last night, after a week of 15 hour days..
2018-10-19T02:17:36 < cjbaird> Another mistake-- getting the carpet done before the painting..
2018-10-19T02:17:36 < cjbaird> (his fuckup, not mine..)
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2018-10-19T04:03:40 < englishman> crt is caught https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/victoria/we-have-never-seen-anything-like-this-before-teen-drove-fake-emergency-truck-to-accident-scenes-court-hears-20181017-p50a97.html
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2018-10-19T04:26:47 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/zHLXGCJv
2018-10-19T04:28:30 < cjbaird> Twice in two days I've been almost taken out by a cunt going near-straight at full-speed through a roundabout/traffic circle. Only the 'what-if' buffering habit saved me..
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2018-10-19T04:41:52 < cjbaird> A pity that the dashcam options for motorbikes are rather crap imo. The camera really needs to be on your helmet, and be something like a low-profile part (like two CO2 cylinders together, rather than anything like a GoPro)
2018-10-19T04:44:42 < Ultrasauce> mobius
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2018-10-19T04:48:15 < cjbaird> Still looks like crap (cheap cmos camera in a cheap box..) I'm thinking of something like Nolan's N-Com, but with forward+rear cameras 
2018-10-19T04:58:55 < cjbaird> That's why the helmet-- the rider's body does most of that. Bike chassis have a lot of high-frequency vibrations (at least mine does..) which interferes with recording, too.
2018-10-19T05:02:59 < dongs> lmao, rip CRT
2018-10-19T05:04:45 < dongs> < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/zHLXGCJv
2018-10-19T05:04:47 < dongs> so basically
2018-10-19T05:04:51 < dongs> this proves
2018-10-19T05:04:56 < dongs> 94% whites = no crimes
2018-10-19T05:07:19 < englishman> holy fuck this client is dumb as fuck
2018-10-19T05:07:27 < dongs> irc?
2018-10-19T05:07:30 < englishman> no
2018-10-19T05:07:36 < dongs> ah the DIP pcba guy
2018-10-19T05:07:41 < englishman> haha no
2018-10-19T05:07:44 < englishman> the LED guy
2018-10-19T05:07:51 < englishman> wants some PT4115 board
2018-10-19T05:08:04 < englishman> that probably exists and cloned 500000x in china
2018-10-19T05:08:26 < englishman> paid some guy $900 to make a schematic
2018-10-19T05:08:36 < englishman> gave it to me to do layout
2018-10-19T05:08:41 < englishman> i should have refsed straight away
2018-10-19T05:08:45 < englishman> i dont even have time for this
2018-10-19T05:09:11 < englishman> i need to fire him now
2018-10-19T05:09:13 < dongs> china led driver
2018-10-19T05:09:18 < englishman> yes
2018-10-19T05:09:49 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/pP4Gl5y.png done
2018-10-19T05:10:46 < englishman> i think he even sent me that photo
2018-10-19T05:11:34 < dongs> haha probly cuz its in 1st gogleale datasheet
2018-10-19T05:12:04 < englishman> he did
2018-10-19T05:12:43 < englishman> he is actually in china right noq
2018-10-19T05:12:45 < englishman> now
2018-10-19T05:12:57 < dongs> is your client = brent morgan
2018-10-19T05:13:01 < englishman> yes I will fire him today and refund his money
2018-10-19T05:16:20 < dongs> invoke your rights
2018-10-19T05:16:24 < dongs> holy shit wtf
2018-10-19T05:16:31 < dongs> F0 at 48mhz draws like 20mA
2018-10-19T05:16:40 < dongs> its actually heating up like 7C over ambient
2018-10-19T05:18:05 < dongs> wait no 20mA at 5V so like
2018-10-19T05:18:22 < dongs> 30ma at 33
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2018-10-19T05:20:54 < englishman> F0 at 5V
2018-10-19T05:21:04 < dongs> no, 5V before regulator
2018-10-19T05:21:27 < englishman> so 20mA then
2018-10-19T05:21:28 < dongs> the point is that its drawing too much
2018-10-19T05:21:30 < englishman> cuz ldo
2018-10-19T05:21:51 < dongs> ya well, the point is it shouldnt be anywhere that high
2018-10-19T05:25:30 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
2018-10-19T05:33:16 < emeb_mac> 20ma sounds like a lot
2018-10-19T05:35:26 < dongs> it is
2018-10-19T05:35:29 < dongs> for a tssop20 F0
2018-10-19T05:35:31 < dongs> i wonder whats up
2018-10-19T05:35:40 < dongs> it drops down to ike 3mA at 8mhz tho
2018-10-19T05:36:12 < dongs> i normally wouldnt give a shit but this one is next to a huidity/temperature sensor and the radiant heat its sending out is actually affecting the readings
2018-10-19T05:37:32 < dongs> where's uA/MHz for F0
2018-10-19T05:38:39 < dongs> ok so 48uA/MHz for all AHB peripherals
2018-10-19T05:38:47 < dongs> 110 uA/MHz for APB
2018-10-19T05:39:33 < dongs> so even with everything on (which i don't have)
2018-10-19T05:39:42 < dongs> that would be 7.5mA at 48mhz
2018-10-19T05:39:54 < dongs> what about processor core itself
2018-10-19T05:40:29 < emeb_mac> got a GPIO pin that's overloaded?
2018-10-19T05:40:46 < dongs> Power consumption (TYP)
2018-10-19T05:40:46 < dongs> 250 µA/MHz run
2018-10-19T05:41:06 < dongs> bingo
2018-10-19T05:41:12 < dongs> 148+250 = 19mA
2018-10-19T05:41:15 < dongs> at 48
2018-10-19T05:41:17 < dongs> i guess its just garbage
2018-10-19T05:41:26 < dongs> time to see if I can turn on some lowpower modes or someshit
2018-10-19T05:41:35 < dongs> or maybe just fix it to run at 8mhz
2018-10-19T05:41:39 < emeb_mac> that
2018-10-19T05:41:47 < dongs> the only thing thats not working there is led which im buttbanging by software
2018-10-19T05:41:54 < dongs> i.e. t flickers too much
2018-10-19T05:42:01 < emeb_mac> don't need full speed
2018-10-19T05:45:53 < dongs> right, i used hardcoded number for prescaler for led driver isntead of basing off sysclk
2018-10-19T05:46:48 < Laurenceb124> this week is hate crime awareness week
2018-10-19T05:47:18 < Laurenceb124> maybe I should contribute
2018-10-19T05:53:14 < Thorn> Remember that net labels do not connect to ports of the same name.
2018-10-19T05:53:24 < Thorn> Altium Disaster
2018-10-19T06:00:18 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/VSXT9dN6
2018-10-19T06:00:23 < Laurenceb124>  #rotherham
2018-10-19T06:00:26 < Laurenceb124> the memes
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2018-10-19T06:00:38 < Laurenceb124> moar like rapeherham
2018-10-19T06:02:27 < emeb_mac> a bit too regionally specific for this international audience
2018-10-19T06:04:17 < Laurenceb124> the place where u get gang raped
2018-10-19T06:05:03 < Laurenceb124> leading to international memage
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2018-10-19T06:17:22 < cjbaird> The Boston Dynamics new Dancing Spot video was rather amusing... until it start twerking :/
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2018-10-19T06:30:41 < emeb_mac> Boston Dynamics seems hell-bent on making ppl uncomfortable w/ the entire concept of robots
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2018-10-19T06:46:37 < englishman> of course not Thorn 
2018-10-19T06:46:40 < englishman> labels are labels
2018-10-19T06:46:42 < englishman> and ports are ports
2018-10-19T06:46:50 < englishman> you can change the scope of each in project settings
2018-10-19T06:47:30 < Thorn> other packages simply have a concept of "net"
2018-10-19T06:47:39 < Thorn> which is much less confusing
2018-10-19T06:48:31 < englishman> that works if you are only dealing with nets
2018-10-19T06:48:46 < englishman> in which case you use the net label
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2018-10-19T07:12:53 < englishman> i emailed led guy this https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/PT4115-6-30V-input-600ma-LED_60819074472.html
2018-10-19T07:12:57 < englishman> i wonder if he will go away
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2018-10-19T07:22:02 < dongs> lole
2018-10-19T07:46:06 < dongs> innovating
2018-10-19T07:46:12 < dongs> (code word for sucking my own dick)
2018-10-19T07:47:41 < emeb_mac> contortionist
2018-10-19T07:58:44 < englishman> dongs
2018-10-19T07:58:48 < englishman> did you see pink pcb
2018-10-19T08:23:21 < dongs> no pics
2018-10-19T08:24:04 < dongs> i dont see you pasting a url in last 48 hours
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2018-10-19T08:54:03 < englishman> dongs: 
2018-10-19T08:54:04 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/pvWtb6y.jpg?1
2018-10-19T08:54:09 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/cHNMIGb.jpg
2018-10-19T08:55:50 < englishman> e x c l u s i v e englishman-only colours
2018-10-19T08:56:52 < englishman> picking up more samples in the morning
2018-10-19T09:02:07 < emeb_mac> such colors
2018-10-19T09:05:35 < englishman> they can do multiple soldermask passes, so you could have colour bars if you really wanted (to pay for it)
2018-10-19T09:07:19 < englishman> fancy audiophool devices are usually single-sided copper with pth and flammable, caustic, non-rohs brown soldermask
2018-10-19T09:07:52 < cjbaird> uBitx ordered. AFter 20 years, PayPal's dodgiest junkie employees now have access to my money. :/
2018-10-19T09:10:20 < cjbaird> Not for Guesy payments. Although it's basically what the Visa card I have is used like.
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2018-10-19T09:14:23 < Steffanx> Steffan reporting in, stvn
2018-10-19T09:14:54 < Steffanx> Im gas pumping mate
2018-10-19T09:15:21 < englishman> dont you have a windmill-powered car
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2018-10-19T09:58:51 < mads-> Steffanx: Why did you kick me from the channel? Did I do something wrong?
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2018-10-19T10:01:59 < englishman> yeah it was tabcomplete fail
2018-10-19T10:04:28 < mads-> haha, ok :) 
2018-10-19T10:04:44 < mads-> I just wanted to make sure I didn't do something wrong. Would hate to get banned.
2018-10-19T10:06:23 < englishman> chatting while canadian
2018-10-19T10:08:16 < englishman> canadians
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2018-10-19T10:54:23 < dongs> now they're all official stoners too
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2018-10-19T11:33:15 < benishor> hi there
2018-10-19T11:34:04 < benishor> anyone has a clue on the typical power consumption of STM32F746G-DISCO?
2018-10-19T11:34:36 < benishor> the application I am interested in would communicate with a codec, apply 2 x FIR filters and draw some text on the lcd
2018-10-19T11:35:12 < benishor> I'm just looking for a ballpark value to decide whether it's worth getting a board or not
2018-10-19T11:37:07 < dongs> 'board'? as in the disco, or making one
2018-10-19T11:37:14 < dongs> i would guess < 100mA
2018-10-19T11:38:09 < zyp> I'm guessing on the order of 100mA, maybe more, maybe less, depending on what you're making it do
2018-10-19T11:41:30 < benishor> board as in the disco
2018-10-19T11:41:45 < benishor> I could live with 100mA
2018-10-19T11:41:54 < dongs> well, you'd want to disable the LCD thats on it
2018-10-19T11:41:58 < benishor> I'm considering trying out the disco board for a sdr radio
2018-10-19T11:42:05 < dongs> it has been done
2018-10-19T11:42:11 < zyp> benishor, battery powered?
2018-10-19T11:42:14 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoB8_zzgvlQ i.e this
2018-10-19T11:42:16 < benishor> zyp: pretty much, yes
2018-10-19T11:42:32 < benishor> dongs: I'm sure it has been done, I just want to do it on my own
2018-10-19T11:42:42 < zyp> it's a demonstration board, they are usually not very power optimized
2018-10-19T11:43:17 < zyp> buy one, prototype your code on it, then once the code works, design a new board optimized for your application
2018-10-19T11:44:15 < dongs> https://github.com/vpecanins/stm32f7-rtlsdr
2018-10-19T11:44:15 < dongs> nice
2018-10-19T11:44:34 < benishor> I only made a dsPIC + codec board so far and it uses ~50mA for demodulation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLA-xb7pFpM
2018-10-19T11:45:18 < benishor> trying to see what options are there for good audio quality + low power consumption
2018-10-19T11:45:48 < benishor> the stm32 disco board seems tempting due to allowing me to write all the code for the transceiver in it
2018-10-19T11:46:21 < benishor> the dsPIC in my demo is busy with only audio processing, meaning I would need to add yet another controller for controlling the other aspects of the radio
2018-10-19T11:48:51 < dongs> i'm pretty sure you don't need F7 for that stuff
2018-10-19T11:48:54 < dongs> even F4 would be enough
2018-10-19T11:48:57 < dongs> and it would murder that dspic
2018-10-19T11:49:01 < dongs> in performance
2018-10-19T11:49:58 < benishor> since I'm a greenhorn when it comes to stm32, any of you fine gentlemen can lend a pointer on where I would start with it?
2018-10-19T11:50:18 < dongs> disco boards are good choices. or nucleo
2018-10-19T11:50:28 < dongs> if you dont need display etc. nucleo works fine
2018-10-19T11:51:02 < benishor> I would need some kind of a visual feedback for the user though
2018-10-19T11:51:10 < benishor> but I'm sure a small oled can be enough
2018-10-19T11:51:13 < dongs> there's F4-disco with sdram and lcd
2018-10-19T11:51:17 < oz4ga> it will probably com back to the bandwidth.
2018-10-19T11:51:28 < dongs> there's also L44something disco with a very small mipi screen but thats more coplex
2018-10-19T11:51:47 < dongs> me2
2018-10-19T11:51:50 < dongs> powered it up once
2018-10-19T11:51:55 < dongs> put into stm32 eval boards box
2018-10-19T11:52:14 < benishor> is there an index with available dev boards?
2018-10-19T11:52:35 < dongs> https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/stm32-mcu-discovery-kits.html
2018-10-19T11:52:38 < zyp> I'd probably start with F7 if I were doing any kind of DSP, even if F4 probably could do
2018-10-19T11:53:03 < zyp> easier to prototype when you have a ton of resources, and scale down later when you have something working
2018-10-19T11:53:49 < dongs> also why would 50 vs 100mA even matter for prototyping even battery powered
2018-10-19T11:53:51 < dongs> stick a 10Ah lipo on it
2018-10-19T11:54:05 < dongs> you'll be powering it for weeks
2018-10-19T11:54:07 < zyp> exactly, power optimizations is something you do at the end
2018-10-19T11:54:13 < oz4ga> the F7 has sueal issue ALU an CCM ram which could be used for the coefs
2018-10-19T11:54:27 < dongs> well so does F4
2018-10-19T11:54:41 < dongs> (ccm, no idea what other shit you said)
2018-10-19T11:54:59 < PaulFertser> usual
2018-10-19T11:55:04 < oz4ga> dual issu -> some paralle processing
2018-10-19T11:55:08 < PaulFertser> Good morning, fine gentlemen.
2018-10-19T11:56:42 < PaulFertser> crt: why?
2018-10-19T11:57:13 < dongs> i wouldn't either
2018-10-19T11:57:22 < PaulFertser> oz4ga: please clarify "ALU an CCM"
2018-10-19T11:57:31 < dongs> an = and
2018-10-19T11:58:04 < PaulFertser> crt: have you run out of stroopwaffels or somesuch, why do you want to PM him?
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2018-10-19T11:59:21 < PaulFertser> Is steffan distributing those?
2018-10-19T12:02:34 < PaulFertser> Wouldn't they like to get a thong anyway?
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2018-10-19T12:04:05 < kakimir> I should really study architecture for embedded software
2018-10-19T12:04:53 < kakimir> I mean I can code but how the software operates is every time different
2018-10-19T12:05:03 < dongs> thats cuz your code is shit
2018-10-19T12:05:20 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-19T12:06:01 < kakimir> now I plan to set flags in interrupts and butt mainloop in sleep until interrupt wakes stuff up and then just conditionally run stuff based on flags
2018-10-19T12:06:52 < kakimir> everything I do feels dodgy
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2018-10-19T12:07:35 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-19T12:07:46 < kakimir> stuff I do works solid
2018-10-19T12:07:56 < kakimir> it's nasty butt works
2018-10-19T12:08:24 < kakimir> I fear that when I start cleaning it up it loses it's magic
2018-10-19T12:08:46 < kakimir> or to say goes into shit
2018-10-19T12:13:25 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
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2018-10-19T12:36:35 < karlp> what are we doing with coolmos today?
2018-10-19T12:37:02 < karlp> hyperdata centers!
2018-10-19T13:01:10 < Steffanx> Class CRT.
2018-10-19T13:06:38 < Steffanx> Lo
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2018-10-19T13:08:39 < Steffanx> Stop the drugs, crt
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2018-10-19T15:32:18 < Steffanx> Uh?
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2018-10-19T15:55:37 < zhxk> how to get a frequence of 32000 out from tim14 on a 48M clock?
2018-10-19T15:56:59 < zyp> divide it by 1500
2018-10-19T15:57:09 < qyx_> I would suggest using a prescaler
2018-10-19T15:58:09 < zyp> you don't really need a prescaler for that fraction, 1500 is small enough that you can just stick it into ARR and run without prescaler
2018-10-19T15:58:24 < zyp> i.e. ARR = 1500-1 and PSC=1-1
2018-10-19T15:58:26 < qyx_> hm, or that
2018-10-19T15:59:07 < qyx_> it depends what "get a frequency" means
2018-10-19T16:01:34 < zyp> yeah, if you want it to count at 32000 you'd set PSC=1500-1 and then ARR to whatever you want it to
2018-10-19T16:01:52 < zyp> but I interpreted it as the timer wrapping at a rate of 32k
2018-10-19T16:02:25 < zyp> which is the case if you're doing 32k PWM or any other sort of output with a 32k freq
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2018-10-19T16:08:51 < qyx_> btw did you try freertos with stop mode?
2018-10-19T16:09:06 < qyx_> sleep works without problems
2018-10-19T16:09:25 < zyp> who? me?
2018-10-19T16:09:45 < qyx_> iirc you are using freertos :)
2018-10-19T16:09:54 < zyp> yeah, but on cortex-r
2018-10-19T16:10:05 < zyp> and no, I haven't bothered with sleep
2018-10-19T16:10:26 < Laurenceb124> u can sleeo when ur dead
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2018-10-19T16:11:48 < bitmask> yay, I get my car back today
2018-10-19T16:12:05 < bitmask> got insurance yesterday, going to get it registered and inspected later today
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2018-10-19T16:13:38 < zyp> fun fun
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2018-10-19T16:35:26 < rajkosto> can someone identify this voltage controller ? https://i.imgur.com/xBvQual.jpg
2018-10-19T16:39:02 < karlp> is the board likely to have western or chian components?
2018-10-19T16:39:06 < karlp> any hints at all?
2018-10-19T16:40:21 < karlp> what size is that? 3x3mm? bigger? smaller?
2018-10-19T16:40:40 < rajkosto> its a minor voltage rail controller on a 2010 sandy bridge mobo
2018-10-19T16:41:23 < rajkosto> nvm its a richtek rt8100a
2018-10-19T16:41:30 < karlp> that was easy
2018-10-19T16:41:43 < rajkosto> it was a richtek last time i asked too
2018-10-19T16:41:51 < rajkosto> so i checked the datasheets markings manually
2018-10-19T16:42:28 < Steffanx> Ty
2018-10-19T16:42:50 < karlp> so where did you get the datasheet for rt8100a anyway?
2018-10-19T16:48:49 -!- zhxk [~Administr@218.71.77.198] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2018-10-19T16:52:21 < rajkosto> https://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/207868/RICHTEK/RT8100A.html
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2018-10-19T17:40:46 < Laurenceb> based sihks 
2018-10-19T17:40:48 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45918845
2018-10-19T17:44:16 < kakimir> what does based mean Laurenceb?
2018-10-19T17:44:31 < Laurenceb> Trump supporters gang raped our children
2018-10-19T17:49:19 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD2M5CRlpBI
2018-10-19T17:49:33 < Laurenceb> attention seeking level over 9000
2018-10-19T17:50:05 < jadew> that's not mia khalifa...
2018-10-19T17:51:12 < Laurenceb> u woulds know
2018-10-19T17:51:18 < Laurenceb>  *would
2018-10-19T17:51:24 < jadew> like you wouldn't
2018-10-19T17:54:12 < Laurenceb> top bants
2018-10-19T17:54:40 < Laurenceb> my sides just went orbital https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-facebook-hires-nick-clegg-13442875
2018-10-19T17:55:48 < Laurenceb> https://postimg.cc/QKHyw2Pz
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2018-10-19T18:14:53 < catsoesh> Hi everyone, I was here a few days ago because I had a problem with an STM32F030, I was trying to get the clock the work
2018-10-19T18:14:57 < catsoesh> My code is here --- https://pastebin.com/sF5yRwYn
2018-10-19T18:15:11 < catsoesh> And here is a screenshot of GDB that would be nice if someone could help explain to me
2018-10-19T18:15:17 < Laurenceb> https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=sGyG4_1539936280
2018-10-19T18:15:39 < emeb> https://mailchi.mp/chirp/explorer-board/
2018-10-19T18:15:51 < emeb> Those who do not remember modems are doomed to repeat them.
2018-10-19T18:16:02 < catsoesh> GDB -- https://imgur.com/a/vuterV6
2018-10-19T18:16:16 < catsoesh> for whatever reason it is optimizing out my volatile variable and I don't have enough experience to know why
2018-10-19T18:16:22 < catsoesh> Any help would be appreciated
2018-10-19T18:17:31 < qyx_> why is it volatile?
2018-10-19T18:19:00 < Thorn> T - 10 h https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/10/19/live-coverage-probe-heading-to-mercury-set-for-launch-from-french-guiana/
2018-10-19T18:19:19 < catsoesh> qyx_: Because I have tried it being volatile and non-volatile and it gets optimized out either way
2018-10-19T18:19:35 < Rickta59> are you compiling with -Og catsoesh ?
2018-10-19T18:19:42 < karlp> emeb: heh, nice :)
2018-10-19T18:19:46 < catsoesh> No, I am compiling with -O2 -g
2018-10-19T18:19:58 < qyx_> I don't think "optimized out" means that your variable vanishes
2018-10-19T18:20:24 < Rickta59> did you look at the asm generated catsoesh ? as qyx_ says just because gdb can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there
2018-10-19T18:20:34 < zyp> when gdb says optimized out means that the variable is not currently stored in ram
2018-10-19T18:21:02 < zyp> i.e. it could simply be kept in a register
2018-10-19T18:21:18 < catsoesh> zyp: Thank you, I am still trying to figure out GDB and follow your advice so its a learning curve
2018-10-19T18:21:31 < qyx_> also, does the timer code works?
2018-10-19T18:21:35 < Rickta59> compile with -Og if you want to see variables
2018-10-19T18:21:59 < Rickta59> or learn the layout split command
2018-10-19T18:22:12 < catsoesh> qyx_: The problem that I am having is the code only works if the relational operator is "!=", but what I want to use is "<"
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2018-10-19T18:22:36 < qyx_> in the while loop?
2018-10-19T18:22:53 < emeb> karlp: from the specs it looks like some kind of stm32f4
2018-10-19T18:23:34 < catsoesh> qyx_: I meant that I want to us ">", my bad
2018-10-19T18:23:38 < karlp> emeb: yeah, I'm sure there's still a place for audible range comms, it has a nice proper tyhat it provides user feedback too.
2018-10-19T18:23:51 < karlp> but the amount of wheel building going on must be insane.
2018-10-19T18:26:19 < qyx_> catsoesh: did you analyze what happens when your counter wraps around?
2018-10-19T18:27:21 < catsoesh> qyx_: What do you mean by wraps around?
2018-10-19T18:28:06 < qyx_> after ~32s your counter values are negative
2018-10-19T18:34:50 < qyx_> reminds me
2018-10-19T18:35:03 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6OZrUbLJ1M kakimusics
2018-10-19T18:35:29 < qyx_> for (size_t i = sizeof(buf) - 1; i >= 0; i--)
2018-10-19T18:36:03 < catsoesh> qyx_: Shouldnt I want them to be negative, so that way there won't be a problem with overflow?
2018-10-19T18:40:07 < Laurenceb> *stinks your embassy up with cat piss and BO*
2018-10-19T18:40:13 < Laurenceb> *sues u*
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2018-10-19T18:43:59 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o englishman] by ChanServ
2018-10-19T18:44:02 -!- mode/##stm32 [+b *!*@128.243.52.196] by englishman
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2018-10-19T18:44:27 < kakimir> laurence is back
2018-10-19T18:44:42 < englishman> a first for data-over-sound.
2018-10-19T18:44:43 < englishman> loll
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2018-10-19T18:45:59 < emeb> it's revolutionary!
2018-10-19T18:46:19 < englishman> dongs: https://i.imgur.com/Ozohtik.jpg
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2018-10-19T18:49:07 < malinus> All I'm thinking is, what's next? data over electricity?!
2018-10-19T18:49:27 < zyp> englishman, very kawaii
2018-10-19T18:49:37 < zyp> shame about all the flux residue
2018-10-19T18:49:42 < emeb> "third world countries such as Germany, Spain and Brazil"
2018-10-19T18:50:05 < englishman> well that was 2011 era englishman soldering
2018-10-19T18:50:12 < englishman> probably filthy leaded solder too
2018-10-19T18:50:18 < englishman> before coming to ##stm32 and becoming pro
2018-10-19T18:50:39 < rajkosto> qyx_, you need ints there otherwise it will always be > 0
2018-10-19T18:52:56 < karlp> I think the joke there was that they didn't want sizeof?
2018-10-19T19:03:38 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
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2018-10-19T19:12:30 < qyx_> no the joke was that size_t is unsigned
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2018-10-19T19:18:09 < karlp> so as long as sizefi(buf) > 1, you were fine?
2018-10-19T19:18:21 < karlp> oh, no, >= not >
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2018-10-19T19:26:38 < catphish> i made a thing :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxBew3MQ7X4
2018-10-19T19:28:11 < Steffanx> card detection finally successful?
2018-10-19T19:28:26 < aandrew> catphish: nice. I never did the raw reader myself
2018-10-19T19:28:42 < aandrew> I always cheated and just used ... some industrial protocol 
2018-10-19T19:28:49 < aandrew> readers were plentiful and cheap
2018-10-19T19:29:06 < aandrew> cna't remember hte name of the protocol now though but basically has a '1' wire and '0' wire and pulses on whatever wire the bit value is
2018-10-19T19:29:11 < aandrew> have to look it up now
2018-10-19T19:29:27 < aandrew> wiegand
2018-10-19T19:29:41 < catphish> Steffanx: yeah, i tuned the antenna and card detection works now, the range is very poor, like <10mm, but it works
2018-10-19T19:29:53 < Steffanx> :)
2018-10-19T19:30:02 < zyp> how did you get it tuned?
2018-10-19T19:30:14 < zyp> I thought you were gonna send a board here :p
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2018-10-19T19:30:46 < catphish> zyp: signal generator and an oscilloscope, but i don't think i've done it very well, i'd still prefer to send  board to you for some VNA action
2018-10-19T19:31:12 < catphish> i wasn't really sure what i was supposed to be measuring with the scope
2018-10-19T19:31:59 < catphish> but what was clear immediately was that my capacitance was way too high, swapped 100pf to 47pf and things are working a lot better
2018-10-19T19:34:08 < aandrew> can a VNA be used as a spectrum analyzer? I can't see why not, it's a simpler thing than a VNA
2018-10-19T19:34:44 < zyp> yes, they usually have a SA mode
2018-10-19T19:35:33 < aandrew> I'm looking at the pocket vna (http://pocketvna.com/)
2018-10-19T19:36:05 < zyp> I have this one: http://miniradiosolutions.com/54-2/
2018-10-19T19:36:24 < englishman> ^ excellent buy
2018-10-19T19:36:26 < englishman> im using it now
2018-10-19T19:36:26 < zyp> they look pretty similar
2018-10-19T19:36:44 < aandrew> I saw the mini VNA. looks a lot cheaper in build than the pocket vna
2018-10-19T19:36:56 < aandrew> similar specs
2018-10-19T19:37:01 < aandrew> probably identical rf internals
2018-10-19T19:37:14 < aandrew> I seem to remember eevblog complaining that one of the ports had supid routing
2018-10-19T19:37:50 < englishman> eevblag is a content creator
2018-10-19T19:37:54 < aandrew> agreed
2018-10-19T19:37:55 < zyp> I don't think pocketvna existed when I bought mine, so I didn't have to figure out which were a better buy :)
2018-10-19T19:37:58 < aandrew> I'm not taking them at their word
2018-10-19T19:38:03 < aandrew> it wasn't him specifically
2018-10-19T19:38:05 < aandrew> one of the forum posters
2018-10-19T19:38:49 < karlp> catphish: nice :)
2018-10-19T19:39:09 < karlp> in lieu of psytrace friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMvMR-jNSKg
2018-10-19T19:39:35 < englishman> hmm my gps spoofer is not working today
2018-10-19T19:40:17 < catphish> so, what is the correct procedure to measure the resonant frequency precisely with just an oscilloscope and a signal generator?
2018-10-19T19:40:36 < englishman> buy a vna
2018-10-19T19:40:43 < aandrew> haha
2018-10-19T19:42:03 < catphish> well to begin with i just connected the frequency generator straight to the antenna and capacitor and measured the voltage across the whole thing, but the voltage didn't seem to change much with frequency
2018-10-19T19:42:14 < karlp> so zyp re "usually they can..." can the minivna do it? (be an SA?)
2018-10-19T19:42:31 < zyp> I don't remember
2018-10-19T19:42:33 < catphish> then i put a resistor in series with the signal generator, and that produced much more useful resutls
2018-10-19T19:42:47 < zyp> but the ZVL I used in uni certainly had a SA mode
2018-10-19T19:43:32 < aandrew> anyone here have a finetopix.com account? want to grab some stuff 
2018-10-19T19:43:51 < aandrew> catphish: basically a resistor divider and you measured the voltage across the cap/gnd?
2018-10-19T19:44:17 < aandrew> 50 ohms series resistor and when the voltage on the scope (voltage across the cap) was half the input voltage you were matched?
2018-10-19T19:44:20 < zyp> karlp, I don't see anything about SA in the vna/j manual, so I guess not
2018-10-19T19:45:19 < karlp> minivnapro2 is cheaper than minivna tiny?
2018-10-19T19:45:31 < zyp> smaller frequency range
2018-10-19T19:45:45 < englishman> 200MHz only
2018-10-19T19:45:47 < karlp> oh yeah, just noticed
2018-10-19T19:45:50 < karlp> "Fpro"
2018-10-19T19:46:06 < karlp> was curious how they put BT inside it...
2018-10-19T19:47:39 < catphish> aandrew: i'd probably need to draw it
2018-10-19T19:49:07 < karlp> where does the finetopix name come from?
2018-10-19T19:49:41 < aandrew> I'm guessing "fine topics"
2018-10-19T19:50:09 < karlp> can you not just register?
2018-10-19T19:50:13 < aandrew> catphish: I think that's how it's generally done.  SIGGEN --/\/\/---A---|  |--- GND
2018-10-19T19:50:43 < aandrew> where the R is the impedance you want to hit, and then you measure across A-GND and look for half the voltage the gen is outputting
2018-10-19T19:50:59 < aandrew> karlp: I am, but you ahve to generate enough "reputation" or whatever until you can actually view the downlaods
2018-10-19T19:51:10 < aandrew> sonsivri is much better for being able to actually get shit
2018-10-19T19:51:12 < catphish> aandrew: this is what i'm doing: http://tinyurl.com/yd3pb4pa
2018-10-19T19:51:58 < aandrew> catphish: with a 1k? what impedance were you trying to hit?
2018-10-19T19:52:15 < aandrew> or rather, how did you tune the antenna, just get the biggest voltage across the cap?
2018-10-19T19:52:17 < qyx_> apparentyl I found my christmas gift
2018-10-19T19:52:27 < qyx_> the minivna looks cool
2018-10-19T19:52:39 < englishman> it is
2018-10-19T19:52:52 < catphish> aandrew: i was just looking for the resonant frequency of the antenna and capacitor with no regard to matching impedance
2018-10-19T19:53:17 < aandrew> catphish: ok but again what was your "ok I got it" criteria?
2018-10-19T19:53:21 < englishman> hmm why the shit cant i spoof gps today
2018-10-19T19:53:27 < aandrew> maximum voltage across the cap?
2018-10-19T19:53:55 < catphish> aandrew: yes
2018-10-19T19:54:16 < aandrew> and were you just cutting bits off the antenna until you got to that?
2018-10-19T19:54:33 < catphish> i was changing the frequency
2018-10-19T19:55:01 < catphish> to find the current frequency, then changing the matching capacitor to change that frequency and repeating
2018-10-19T19:55:06 < aandrew> ... but isn't your frequency fixed for the card/ i.e. you have to utne the antenna/cap to the 13.5MHz, not find the right frequency for the antenna?
2018-10-19T19:55:11 < aandrew> ahh
2018-10-19T19:55:12 < aandrew> okay
2018-10-19T19:55:35 < catphish> i can't change the antenna, it's printed into the board
2018-10-19T19:55:44 < catphish> so it's a case of finding the appropriate capacitance
2018-10-19T19:56:17 < catphish> the problem is that i wasn't observing very high voltages at all on the capacitor
2018-10-19T19:56:20 < aandrew> sure, but for instance for tuning your wifi/bt antenna you print the PCB with a longer antenna than you think and perform this where you cut back the trace until it's matched, and then you now know the right length for the specific board process your board house is using
2018-10-19T19:56:59 < karlp> aandrew: urh, hate those sorts of forums.
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2018-10-19T19:57:07 < catphish> interesting, this is a loop though, for inductive coupling, not a monopole
2018-10-19T19:57:29 < aandrew> karlp: I do too
2018-10-19T19:57:38 < aandrew> catphish: right, I understand now
2018-10-19T19:59:03 < catphish> looks like this method should be ok, at resonant frequency, the voltage looks like it will equal the input voltage from the signal generator
2018-10-19T19:59:36 < catphish> i was thinking it would actually go higher, but falstad suggests not
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2018-10-19T20:13:03 < englishman> strange, had to put an antenna on the sdr
2018-10-19T20:13:08 < englishman> never had to do that before to spoof gps
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2018-10-19T20:16:59 < bitmask> does car oil go bad over time or just from use
2018-10-19T20:17:35 < bitmask> my car says my oil life is at 90% because I got an oil change not to long before I stopped driving it, but its been sitting for about a year
2018-10-19T20:20:57 < aandrew> in altium, can't you export the design rules and import them into another design? 
2018-10-19T20:21:13 < aandrew> oh you have to do it from the right lcick menu off hte rule tree
2018-10-19T20:21:13 < englishman> yes
2018-10-19T20:23:11 < aandrew> wow that's a shitty system
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2018-10-19T21:00:27 < zyp> bitmask, both
2018-10-19T21:00:41 < zyp> I think it absorbs some moisture from the air even when it's just sitting
2018-10-19T21:01:10 < Rickta59> does it matter bitmask ? You haven't driven it for a year :)
2018-10-19T21:01:11 < zyp> use matters a lot more though
2018-10-19T21:01:13 < BrainDamage> metal particles also get dissolved from wear and tear and just sitting there
2018-10-19T21:01:34 < BrainDamage> also the chemical composition is not 100% stable
2018-10-19T21:01:48 < Rickta59> i would bet you would have more worries with the battery
2018-10-19T21:02:03 < BrainDamage> an oil change is not that expensive though here
2018-10-19T21:02:08 < bitmask> I'm gonna start driving it again, I got insurance yesterday and I'm going to register it in like half an hour
2018-10-19T21:02:21 < bitmask> I charged the battery
2018-10-19T21:02:30 < bitmask> we will see if it holds
2018-10-19T21:02:36 < BrainDamage> make sure to fill up the blinker fluid
2018-10-19T21:02:44 < bitmask> :)
2018-10-19T21:05:12 < BrainDamage> though if it has been sitting idle for a long time, go easy on the drive for a short distance, some parts might have been slightly deformed from the static load, but after a short while the friction will re-align them
2018-10-19T21:05:20 < englishman> what car is it? havent seen an oil quality sensor before
2018-10-19T21:05:22 < englishman> probably bmw?
2018-10-19T21:05:52 < Steffanx> no, it wasnt that. 
2018-10-19T21:05:53 < bitmask> its an acural TL, its not a quality sensor it just tells you when to change it
2018-10-19T21:05:58 < bitmask> probably based on milage
2018-10-19T21:06:08 < bitmask> acura*
2018-10-19T21:09:22 < Streaker> You can do the oil change yourself
2018-10-19T21:09:57 < BrainDamage> you kind of want a magnetic wrench for the oil cap though
2018-10-19T21:10:16 < BrainDamage> unless you're into black oily face painting 
2018-10-19T21:14:17 < Steffanx> im lazy. i dotn do it myself
2018-10-19T21:15:13 < bitmask> me neither, I have done it but its not really worth it
2018-10-19T21:16:21 < zyp> Steffanx, here you go: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ehxct.jpg
2018-10-19T21:16:52 < zyp> also https://bin.jvnv.net/file/EizFc.jpg
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2018-10-19T21:19:17 < PaulFertser> bitmask: I'm reading that people change oil as rarely as once every 2 years without ill effects (provided they do not get more than 5000km or so during that).
2018-10-19T21:21:36 < zyp> PaulFertser, that doesn't really sound all that rare
2018-10-19T21:22:12 < bitmask> I think I'll be ok, I'll just change it in like 2000 miles
2018-10-19T21:22:26 < Steffanx> is that that rarely either that people dont even fill it up a bit once in a while :P
2018-10-19T21:22:31 < Steffanx> Cool cool zyp. 
2018-10-19T21:22:54 < Steffanx> but is your entire house covered in this white wall covering?
2018-10-19T21:22:59 < bitmask> I'll just check the level
2018-10-19T21:23:12 < zyp> which of those?
2018-10-19T21:23:37 < Steffanx> i dont know what you call it in english ||| those :P
2018-10-19T21:23:58 < zyp> last pic is waterproof wall panels, bathrooms and laundry room gets that
2018-10-19T21:24:16 < Steffanx> no i meant those other panels.
2018-10-19T21:24:20 < zyp> all other rooms have those other prepainted white panels
2018-10-19T21:24:20 < PaulFertser> zyp: I mean they do not drive all the 10-15k that is the normal rated range for the engine.
2018-10-19T21:25:03 < BrainDamage> If I had my own house, I'd put thermochromatic tiles in the bathroom
2018-10-19T21:25:16 < BrainDamage> a bucketload of money well spent
2018-10-19T21:25:45 < catphish> well it seems tuning my antenna the way i did produced a pretty crappy result compared with just adding capacitors until it works well
2018-10-19T21:26:45 < Steffanx> hehe yeah BrainDamage. well spend indeed
2018-10-19T21:27:39 < Steffanx> how much of that are you doing zyp?
2018-10-19T21:28:05 < zyp> photographing :p
2018-10-19T21:28:26 < Steffanx> dont get tired.
2018-10-19T21:28:30 < zyp> so far the only work I've done myself is the network stuff
2018-10-19T21:28:46 < zyp> but I'm also gonna be putting in the kitchen myself too
2018-10-19T21:29:12 < zyp> went there today to double check the measurements, gonna order the counter and stuff tomorrow
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2018-10-19T21:30:58 < Steffanx> IKEA?  :)
2018-10-19T21:32:03 < Steffanx> hmm i see they released their tradfri wall sockets. but they are huuuge
2018-10-19T21:34:29 < zyp> yes
2018-10-19T21:35:04 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/PwjHm.png <- something like this
2018-10-19T21:39:42 < zyp> and yeah, the trådfri socket thing looks fairly huge in photos
2018-10-19T21:40:07 < zyp> but the price is good, I don't think you'll find much with two way comms at that price
2018-10-19T21:44:24 < Steffanx> True that
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2018-10-19T21:47:31 < englishman> lol the usa model is way cheaper
2018-10-19T21:49:02 < zyp> I don't see it on us ikea homepage
2018-10-19T21:50:05 < englishman> I strongly recommend you not purchase the Tradfri line of products. I spent well over a hundred bucks on some bulbs and a gateway. Everything worked for a tiny bit and then 2 months later, one of the bulbs "could not be found" and was permanently off. Two months later the bulb randomly came on in the middle of the night when all the other bulbs in that group were off. Two weeks later the Gateway couldn't be
2018-10-19T21:50:05 < englishman> found and to this day the whole thing doesn't work. Utter garbage.
2018-10-19T21:50:06 < zyp> the whole trådfri selection looks a lot smaller on us ikea
2018-10-19T21:50:20 < zyp> haha
2018-10-19T21:50:23 < englishman> Do not ever mount your gateway on the wall - The IKEA Tradfri app disconnects from the gateway quite frequently, so you'll need access to the QR code in the back of the device all the time.
2018-10-19T21:50:45 < zyp> I've had it working solidly for over a year now
2018-10-19T21:51:06 < englishman> what do you use it for
2018-10-19T21:51:14 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/K5mPV.jpg <- these lamps
2018-10-19T21:51:19 < zyp> rail have constant power
2018-10-19T21:51:25 < englishman> it looks cool but i cannot imagine turning a lamp on from my phone is something i ever want to do
2018-10-19T21:51:43 < zyp> of course not, who cares about the app
2018-10-19T21:51:56 < englishman> so what do you use it for.
2018-10-19T21:52:15 < zyp> voice control
2018-10-19T21:52:59 < BrainDamage> you could copy the QR code tho
2018-10-19T21:53:06 < englishman> yeah i'll pass
2018-10-19T21:53:50 < BrainDamage> my personal solution is to short the antenna of every IoT device I come in possession
2018-10-19T21:53:57 < zyp> I've got most lights here either on trådfri or zwave, I like it
2018-10-19T21:54:07 < englishman> alexa send an irc chat to pound pound ess tee emm thirty two
2018-10-19T21:54:11 < zyp> especially bedroom lights
2018-10-19T21:54:15 < BrainDamage> snipping the tip
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2018-10-19T22:12:03 < jadew> what's the name of those spiked washers?
2018-10-19T22:12:54 < catphish> zyp: probably don't need your VNA skills now, trial and error has yielded the necessary results :)
2018-10-19T22:13:01 < jadew> anti-rotation?
2018-10-19T22:13:06 < BrainDamage> serrated washers
2018-10-19T22:13:13 < jadew> thanks!
2018-10-19T22:15:13 < sync> jadew: just don't use them to secure any screw
2018-10-19T22:15:26 < jadew> sync, why?
2018-10-19T22:16:55 < sync> because they do and cannot work
2018-10-19T22:18:08 < BrainDamage> how much locking security do you need?
2018-10-19T22:18:25 < BrainDamage> you can always do cable-binding
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2018-10-19T22:19:43 < jadew> BrainDamage, I don't need it, I'm just writing some installation instructions and I wanted to say "if that washer is included, don't use it" :P
2018-10-19T22:19:57 < jadew> not because of the locking thing, but because it's scratchy
2018-10-19T22:20:23 < jadew> but good to know that it's not working
2018-10-19T22:20:32 < sync> jadew: think about it, how does a screw work?
2018-10-19T22:24:34 < jadew> friction?
2018-10-19T22:25:16 < jadew> I thought that they're supposed to be added with the spikes in clockwise direction (towards the screw head) and counter clock wise towards the plane it's screwed into
2018-10-19T22:25:26 < jadew> that way the spikes would prevent it from turning
2018-10-19T22:25:35 < sync> if it turns you already lost the game
2018-10-19T22:25:41 -!- sykemyke [syke@kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2018-10-19T22:25:51 < sync> it works by stretching within its elastic limit
2018-10-19T22:26:11 < sync> thus loading the joint it holds together
2018-10-19T22:26:21 < sync> if it turned all preload is gone
2018-10-19T22:26:36 < sync> and for the spring to actually work it has to have a higher spring force than the preload
2018-10-19T22:26:41 < sync> which it does not have
2018-10-19T22:27:02 < sync> the only acceptable solutions are loctite or nordlock washers
2018-10-19T22:27:31 < sync> even safety wire is only protecting you against the loss of a screw but not against loss of preload
2018-10-19T22:37:05 < Steffanx> someone made its job out of it all boltscience.com
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2018-10-19T22:47:17 < catphish> legal question - if i look at someone's mechanical design, and make my own mechanical design that looks similar and works the same way, are they protected? or am i allowed to do that?
2018-10-19T22:47:39 < catphish> i assume that for this kind of thing you'd need a registered patent?
2018-10-19T22:49:50 < sync> that highly depends on where you are located on the rotating potato
2018-10-19T23:01:51 -!- PeterM [bgdwiepp@115-69-25-80-cpe.spintel.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
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2018-10-19T23:10:18 < catphish> well i'd like to be safe potato-wide :)
2018-10-19T23:10:27 < Steffanx> then dont clone.
2018-10-19T23:10:36 < Steffanx> or buy something.
2018-10-19T23:11:59 < catphish> this is what i'm copying https://i.imgur.com/iT7MLlW.png
2018-10-19T23:12:31 < catphish> it's a mechanism for assembling and moving pick n place heads
2018-10-19T23:12:32 < sync> if you want to be safe potato wide you need to hire a patent attorney + stuff
--- Log closed Fri Oct 19 23:18:37 2018
--- Log opened Fri Oct 19 23:28:46 2018
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2018-10-19T23:28:46 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 140 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 139 normal]
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2018-10-19T23:30:38 < catphish> none
2018-10-19T23:30:43 < catphish> does that make a difference?
2018-10-19T23:30:57 < catphish> i was planning to distribute designs (for free)
2018-10-19T23:36:51 -!- sykemyke [syke@kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2018-10-19T23:41:55 < catphish> my query for more a general one than being particularly scared of being sued for copying this design
2018-10-19T23:42:36 < catphish> but you're right, damages are unlikely to be big, anyone too cheap to buy the original design could just make their own
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2018-10-19T23:46:42 < kakimir> is there any guide how to fill these cookie settings
2018-10-19T23:47:24 < kakimir> I turned everything off and ebay still seems to have my session
2018-10-19T23:47:40 < kakimir> so those all were probs just advertising
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2018-10-19T23:49:59 < kakimir> I wonder if cookie preferrences are generally made to create confusion
2018-10-19T23:50:21 < Steffanx> Only when youre kakimir 
2018-10-19T23:57:32 < kakimir> maybe
2018-10-19T23:57:40 < kakimir> some sites have nice categorization
2018-10-19T23:58:11 < kakimir> like: required cookies, advertisement cookies etc.
--- Day changed Sat Oct 20 2018
2018-10-20T00:07:34 < catphish> i really wish there could be a technical solution to cookie settings
2018-10-20T00:07:46 < catphish> instead of every single site having to ask individually
2018-10-20T00:08:23 < BrainDamage> there's adblock list for those
2018-10-20T00:08:49 < kakimir> yeah
2018-10-20T00:09:16 < kakimir> and you can trust that more than site
2018-10-20T00:09:25 < catphish> i can't imagine that'll work well, they probably all have totally different ways to ask
2018-10-20T00:09:42 < BrainDamage> it works for every site in the list ofc
2018-10-20T00:09:58 < BrainDamage> it's not a universal solution, but it reduces the annoyance count by an order of magnitude
2018-10-20T00:10:07 < catphish> that sounds ideal then
2018-10-20T00:11:32 < kakimir> any news about article 13?
2018-10-20T00:11:40 < kakimir> enforcing when?
2018-10-20T00:11:44 < kakimir> first cases when?
2018-10-20T00:11:58 < kakimir> laurenceb to jail
2018-10-20T00:12:06 < kakimir> oh wait
2018-10-20T00:12:54 < kakimir> brexit
2018-10-20T00:13:09 < catphish> if you don't like article 13, you have to leave the EU so as to not enforce it :)
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2018-10-20T00:18:01 < kakimir> very simple
2018-10-20T00:20:03 < kakimir> I'll move to laurenceb's basement
2018-10-20T00:20:26 < kakimir> if article 13 is a problem for me
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2018-10-20T00:22:56 < jadew> catphish, there was a technical solution since 10 years before the EU came up with that garbage
2018-10-20T00:23:16 < catphish> jadew: sort of
2018-10-20T00:23:20 < jadew> there are cookie policies
2018-10-20T00:23:55 < catphish> i actually love the irony that early in the internet, browsers asked users to accept or reject cookies, but users hated it because they always wanted the cookies, so it was removed
2018-10-20T00:24:02 < catphish> but not, we've come full circle
2018-10-20T00:24:03 < jadew> also, kakimir, when you get a cookie pop-up asking you shit, it's  always about advertising
2018-10-20T00:24:14 < jadew> they don't need consent for session stuff or things necessary to run the site
2018-10-20T00:24:34 < catphish> jadew: i'm pretty sure *all* cookies require consent
2018-10-20T00:24:53 < jadew> catphish, nope, just the tracking ones
2018-10-20T00:24:58 < catphish> it would be so easy if cookied just had a "purpose" flag
2018-10-20T00:25:06 < catphish> and browsers could accept or reject them accordingly
2018-10-20T00:25:21 < BrainDamage> nope, jadew's right
2018-10-20T00:25:27 < jadew> catphish, again, this was already implemented
2018-10-20T00:25:35 < jadew> maybe 10 years ago, if not more
2018-10-20T00:25:37 < BrainDamage> it's only third party advertisement cookies that warrant the noteice
2018-10-20T00:25:42 < jadew> there's a thing called cookie policy
2018-10-20T00:25:42 < catphish> jadew: really? if that was the case, why would nobody use it?
2018-10-20T00:25:50 < jadew> everyone did use it
2018-10-20T00:26:07 < jadew> if you didn't, tracking cookies wouldn't be accepted by browsers
2018-10-20T00:26:09 < BrainDamage> thing is, every site uses third party advertisement cookies
2018-10-20T00:26:29 < BrainDamage> so every site ends up with the annoying banner
2018-10-20T00:26:37 < jadew> IE basically broke the tracking code when it introduced that
2018-10-20T00:26:54 < jadew> I think all the other browsers were set to basically ignore the cookie policies
2018-10-20T00:27:09 < jadew> but the user could change those settings
2018-10-20T00:27:22 < catphish> jadew: you're right, at least in the UK, cookies that are "strictly necessary to provide a requested service" are exempt from consent
2018-10-20T00:27:43 < karlp> I've actualyl seen a site in the last two years that was advertising it's own advetising banner space, not using third party ad services
2018-10-20T00:27:53 < karlp> but it's memorable because of how insane it is to try and do that
2018-10-20T00:28:23 < catphish> but yeah, as i said, there needs to be a simple technological solution, that people can use, and do use
2018-10-20T00:28:25 < BrainDamage> insane to force essentially ~everyone?
2018-10-20T00:28:29 < catphish> it's such a trivial technical problem :(
2018-10-20T00:28:46 < BrainDamage> in a way, it made people more aware that their privacy on the internet is non existant
2018-10-20T00:29:00 < jadew> BrainDamage, pretty sure they were already aware of that
2018-10-20T00:29:02 < BrainDamage> but it's a failure from a usability POV
2018-10-20T00:29:14 < BrainDamage> from my anedotal experience - no
2018-10-20T00:29:38 < BrainDamage> when I tell people that when they load the facebook "like" button on the pages, they are being tracked by fb, they all remain surprised
2018-10-20T00:29:48 < jadew> lol
2018-10-20T00:29:53 < BrainDamage> the general assumpion is that visible ads = tracking
2018-10-20T00:29:59 < jadew> you wouldn't believe the kind of information facebook has on its users
2018-10-20T00:30:26 < BrainDamage> it has a shitload of info even on users outside the service
2018-10-20T00:30:58 < jadew> for example, as a regular advertiser (so this is common) you can target people by how much they earn
2018-10-20T00:31:34 < jadew> facebook knows about how much you're earning based on where you live (and probably who your friends are)
2018-10-20T00:33:00 < jadew> oh, speaking of facebook...
2018-10-20T00:33:39 < jadew> maybe 5=7 years ago, I found a bug that could allow you to see the identity of anyone visiting your website if he was logged in into facebook at the time
2018-10-20T00:33:49 < jadew> thought that was an insane security issue
2018-10-20T00:33:54 < jadew> don't know if they fixed it
2018-10-20T00:34:06 < jadew> they probably did
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2018-10-20T00:43:12 < jadew> any suggestions for a rechargeable bicycle lamp?
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2018-10-20T00:46:57 < ds2> ads needs to go away
2018-10-20T00:47:34 < jadew> if ads go away, half the internet if not more, goes away too
2018-10-20T00:48:23 < sync> that's ok
2018-10-20T00:48:32 < BrainDamage> ads don't need to go away, it's the invasive model of ads that has to go
2018-10-20T00:48:56 < jadew> I don't know what you're talking about BrainDamage... I use an ad blocker :P
2018-10-20T00:48:56 < sync> jadew: so does your postal service
2018-10-20T00:49:05 < BrainDamage> I use ad blockers too
2018-10-20T00:49:14 < jadew> sync, what do you mean?
2018-10-20T00:49:19 < BrainDamage> but it's silly that you need active defence
2018-10-20T00:49:25 < sync> our income bracket
2018-10-20T00:49:38 < sync> based on location
2018-10-20T00:50:52 < jadew> BrainDamage, I think it's ok
2018-10-20T00:51:11 < jadew> if sites want to litter their own space with crap, it's their choice
2018-10-20T00:52:18 < jadew> advertising folks will always find ways to annoy the shit out of you
2018-10-20T00:52:30 < BrainDamage> it's not ok, there's plenty of studies that demonstrate that the low level anxiety created by the perception of being constantly controlled impacts the quality of life and productivity of the people
2018-10-20T00:52:32 < jadew> have you not seen the new "register to our newsletter" shit?
2018-10-20T00:52:48 < jadew> the thing that pops up after you scroll for bit?
2018-10-20T00:52:53 < BrainDamage> my personal favourite is the lightboxes
2018-10-20T00:53:06 < BrainDamage> browsers got rid of popups and people reinvented them in js
2018-10-20T00:53:13 < jadew> yeah
2018-10-20T00:59:13 < jadew> hmm, my website was owned by a chinese company and it seems they used google services, I wonder if they had the free e-mail hosting
2018-10-20T00:59:21 < jadew> maybe I can recover the account :D
2018-10-20T00:59:25 < jadew> my *domain
2018-10-20T01:01:32 < jadew> hmm... they might have e-mail in there :/
2018-10-20T01:01:49 < jadew> that would make me recovering their account illegal
2018-10-20T01:04:27 < jadew> anyone got this? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Rechargeable-Bicycle-CREE-XML-T6-LED-Front-Light-Bike-Led-Headlamp-Headlight/302745451659
2018-10-20T01:05:17 < BrainDamage> I have a similar device
2018-10-20T01:05:27 < BrainDamage> it's great if you want to cause random road accidents
2018-10-20T01:05:44 < jadew> is it so powerful?
2018-10-20T01:06:27 < jadew> doesn't look like it from the second image
2018-10-20T01:07:14 < BrainDamage> 1kLm
2018-10-20T01:07:19 < BrainDamage> and tiny emitter
2018-10-20T01:09:23 < jadew> I want something like the high beam on a headlamp
2018-10-20T01:10:11 < jadew> I'm sure I won't get it, but that would be ideal
2018-10-20T01:13:18 < Steffanx> ideal to blind people, yeah
2018-10-20T01:15:14 < jadew> they shouldn't be in the park at that hour anyway
2018-10-20T01:17:00 < jadew> what worries me about these lights is the batteries
2018-10-20T01:17:15 < jadew> they're using a rather large li-ion battery pack
2018-10-20T01:17:37 < jadew> given they originate from china, I'm not sure I'd want that between my legs
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2018-10-20T01:55:11 < ds2> half the internet going away is a good thing
2018-10-20T01:55:23 < ds2> the internet was there before there were ads. the internet will still be there after ads are removed
2018-10-20T01:55:59 < jadew> I remember it being a lot crappier before people started making a living off of ads
2018-10-20T01:56:04 < ds2> removing ads would bring value back - search engines today mostly return stores selling XYZ. I am more interested in discussions/usage of XYZ
2018-10-20T01:56:31 < jadew> ds2, who's going to host the forum?
2018-10-20T01:57:00 < ds2> same folks as before all the ads
2018-10-20T01:57:23 < jadew> free = usually shit
2018-10-20T01:57:43 < jadew> I want my internet with ads, for the same reason I pay for windows
2018-10-20T01:58:12 < jadew> when there's money, there's motivation
2018-10-20T01:58:25 < ds2> ads is not truely free. it is a leach who's only purpose is to get clicks
2018-10-20T01:58:38 < jadew> doh...
2018-10-20T01:58:46 < ds2> the motivation is to turn things into a cesspool
2018-10-20T01:58:51 < jadew> that's how they make money
2018-10-20T01:59:13 < ds2> that's the problem.... anything regardless of useful or not that generates clicks gets shoved in your face
2018-10-20T01:59:25 < jadew> if you find another way for people to make money with their websites, without serving annoying ads, I'm sure everyone will start using it
2018-10-20T01:59:40 < ds2> I much rather have useful information. real honest experiences from people. Not people that get paid so they can write fake experiences to promote whoever is paying them
2018-10-20T01:59:52 < BrainDamage> there's donations and subscriptions
2018-10-20T02:00:15 < ds2> the problem is the quality of information is so low 
2018-10-20T02:00:20 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah... I don't think that works as well as advertising
2018-10-20T02:00:21 < BrainDamage> but then, even sites that use donations and subscriptions still serve ads
2018-10-20T02:00:29 < BrainDamage> because ~double monetization~
2018-10-20T02:00:47 < ds2> i much rather have real enthuisist
2018-10-20T02:00:49 < jadew> ds2, money makes you try harder tho
2018-10-20T02:01:00 < ds2> try harder in the wrong way
2018-10-20T02:01:17 < BrainDamage> the metric of the money is only traffic volume
2018-10-20T02:01:18 < ds2> look at all the problems with reviews on Amazon or other sites
2018-10-20T02:01:19 < jadew> well, if people really want that specific information, someone is going to figure that out and cash on it
2018-10-20T02:01:29 < BrainDamage> see facebook and news reporting
2018-10-20T02:01:40 < BrainDamage> or any clickbait shit
2018-10-20T02:01:42 < jadew> again, it's what people want
2018-10-20T02:01:52 < BrainDamage> no?
2018-10-20T02:01:57 < ds2> I see no difference between selling ads and selling cocaine
2018-10-20T02:02:09 < jadew> lol ds2
2018-10-20T02:02:21 < BrainDamage> if that was true, the internet companies wouldn't be fighting tooth and nail against be classified as media companies
2018-10-20T02:02:33 < BrainDamage> because that actually makes them responsible for the content they publish
2018-10-20T02:02:36 < ds2> media companies are no better
2018-10-20T02:02:46 < BrainDamage> they are more regulated
2018-10-20T02:02:58 < BrainDamage> which would mean massive loss of income
2018-10-20T02:03:00 < ds2> people talk about green and saving trees... what do media companies do? send junk mail
2018-10-20T02:03:07 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah, but the point is that what they're doing works and here "works" means people are drawn to it
2018-10-20T02:03:27 < BrainDamage> providing garbage is not work
2018-10-20T02:03:29 < jadew> is it fair to feed idiots what they want, even tho it's stupid? I don't know...
2018-10-20T02:03:33 < ds2> if you call selling drugs to the masses to keep them appeased working...
2018-10-20T02:03:54 < BrainDamage> when as a society you suffer because of it? yes, it's fucking wrong
2018-10-20T02:03:59 < jadew> ds2, I'm not against selling drugs either btw
2018-10-20T02:04:09 < jadew> if you're too stupid to take them, it's your fucking problem
2018-10-20T02:04:27 < jadew> as long as you're not forced by anyone, it's not my business
2018-10-20T02:04:30 < BrainDamage> vaccine percentage here was dropping to less than herd immunity after recent years caimpaigns so much that local laws had to be placed
2018-10-20T02:04:56 < BrainDamage> when the state has to fight a company, the company is automatically wrong
2018-10-20T02:05:27 < jadew> BrainDamage, not necessarily, but I see your point
2018-10-20T02:06:22 < ds2> i would not be against selling drugs if they would be consistent... there needs to be a rule along the lines of - if you take it, you wavie you rights to any medical help other then from your own pocket
2018-10-20T02:06:42 < jadew> ds2, I agree to that as well
2018-10-20T02:06:46 < BrainDamage> spreading misinformation is a self sustaining mechanism, the more garbage you feed the population, the dumber it becomes and the more self harm it'll produce
2018-10-20T02:07:00 < BrainDamage> and the more guillible for more misinformation will be
2018-10-20T02:07:07 < ds2> GIGO 
2018-10-20T02:07:11 < jadew> BrainDamage, spreading misinformation shouldn't be legal, right
2018-10-20T02:07:20 < BrainDamage> I am against censoreship, but clearly labeling garbage as such should be mandatory
2018-10-20T02:07:43 < BrainDamage> the problem is that all those mechanisms that thrive on popularity also thrive on conflict
2018-10-20T02:08:29 < BrainDamage> therefore intentionally give rise to those pathological misinformation caimpaigns as a mere consequence of profit seeking
2018-10-20T02:08:45 < BrainDamage> so as you can see, maximizing profits, is not necessarily in the best interest of everyone
2018-10-20T02:09:44 < jadew> see... I don't think lying should be forbidden, but we are indeed in an era when our perception can easily be warped by the media, especially if they collude
2018-10-20T02:10:03 < jadew> I think there are two separate issues there, but I fail to separate them now
2018-10-20T02:11:42 < jadew> I guess the problem is that people can't tell it's entertainment
2018-10-20T02:11:44 < BrainDamage> yes they absolutely need, people on average take content at face value
2018-10-20T02:12:04 < jadew> stupid people
2018-10-20T02:12:17 < BrainDamage> when everyone does it, it's human nature
2018-10-20T02:12:30 < BrainDamage> if your system fails to account for human nature, the problem's with the system
2018-10-20T02:13:01 < jadew> BrainDamage is right, but I don't see a real solution to this
2018-10-20T02:13:34 < BrainDamage> well, recognizing a problem is the first step to fix it
2018-10-20T02:13:57 < jadew> problem is, if you regulate entertainment, it stops being entertaining
2018-10-20T02:15:31 < jadew> I think a better solution would be to introduce something new, rather than stop what's already ongoing
2018-10-20T02:15:53 < jadew> something like corroborated content
2018-10-20T02:16:50 < jadew> no, I mean like everyone who thinks they are telling the truth, they should wear that label, with legal consequences if it's proven they have failed to do their job properly or did it intentionally
2018-10-20T02:17:12 < jadew> then everything that remains, is automatically garbage
2018-10-20T02:17:16 < jadew> and people will know that
2018-10-20T02:17:35 < jadew> yeah, that's why I'm saying, something new
2018-10-20T02:17:56 < jadew> consequences could be jail
2018-10-20T02:19:13 < jadew> this should be compulsory for public figures
2018-10-20T02:24:04 < con3> Just started using the regiser addresses directly :)
2018-10-20T02:30:24 < con3> still feels a bit abstract though, but feels like I'm more in control than using cube
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2018-10-20T03:28:40 < aandrew> Lol death sentence for not telling truth
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2018-10-20T04:09:50 < Thorn> T - 35 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy4TjF_zNmk
2018-10-20T04:21:55 < emeb_mac> ooh - thanx
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2018-10-20T04:31:47 < ds2> @#%@#$@#$ power
2018-10-20T04:33:49 < emeb_mac> yo ds2
2018-10-20T04:33:56 < ds2> hey emeb
2018-10-20T04:34:00 < ds2> monsoon season over yet?
2018-10-20T04:34:16 < emeb_mac> ds2: oh yeah.
2018-10-20T04:34:29 < emeb_mac> ds2: but the last few weeks we've had hurricane residue
2018-10-20T04:34:40 < emeb_mac> ds2: so Oct rainfall is way up
2018-10-20T04:34:54 < ds2> wow... thought the rain parts around your concrete jungle 
2018-10-20T04:35:05 < emeb_mac> ds2: this is rain that can't be denied
2018-10-20T04:35:16 < emeb_mac> ds2: weeds sprouting everywhere
2018-10-20T04:35:26 < ds2> hmmm wonder if next year will be a superbloom around there
2018-10-20T04:35:55 < emeb_mac> no doubt - fire danger will be high next summer
2018-10-20T04:36:16 < ds2> really? things burn down in the valley?
2018-10-20T04:36:53 < emeb_mac> ds2: not so much in PHX valley, but just to the north things get pretty bad.
2018-10-20T04:37:07 < ds2> oh along 17 or the Beeline?
2018-10-20T04:37:19 < ds2> 89b or something like that
2018-10-20T04:37:26 < emeb_mac> yes - all those
2018-10-20T04:37:38 < emeb_mac> lots of grass & heavy traffic 
2018-10-20T04:37:54 < emeb_mac> ppl throwing cig butts out the windows
2018-10-20T04:37:59 < ds2> looks very green the times I been through there
2018-10-20T04:38:02 < emeb_mac> trailers w/ dangling chains
2018-10-20T04:38:16 < ds2> hehe those...
2018-10-20T04:38:55 < emeb_mac> that prairie just on the top of the hill around sunset pt rest area *always* burns
2018-10-20T04:40:38 < ds2> any fun projects lately?
2018-10-20T04:42:22 < emeb_mac> ds2: yeah - been working on a personal project - SDR based on Xilinx Zynq (fpga + ARM A9). 
2018-10-20T04:42:47 < ds2> emeb_mac: what's the front end?
2018-10-20T04:43:54 < emeb_mac> ds2: either straight in to the ADC for HF (0-40MHz) or thru a TV converter chip (25-1900MHz)
2018-10-20T04:44:32 < emeb_mac> it's a 14-bit ADC running @ 80MSPS so it's pretty sensitive.
2018-10-20T04:44:46 < ds2> emeb_mac: how does it work for straight into the ADC? the ADC range is like 0-1V but antennas are in the uV range
2018-10-20T04:47:07 < emeb_mac> ds2: with a 14-bit ADC the lsb is 2V/16k so that gives you get about 122uV for the lsbit
2018-10-20T04:47:52 < emeb_mac> But - the front end has about 5 bits of processing gain due to high sample rate
2018-10-20T04:48:25 < ds2> ah I see
2018-10-20T04:48:35 < emeb_mac> so the actual sensitivity is more like 4uV
2018-10-20T04:48:42 < ds2> almost like a 1 bit ADC with a range of 0-122uV
2018-10-20T04:49:15 < emeb_mac> kinda
2018-10-20T04:49:46 < ds2> amazed the math will work out
2018-10-20T04:49:59 < emeb_mac> the DDC section in the FPGA decimates from 80MSPS down to 39kSPS, so all that averaging gives you a lot of resolution.
2018-10-20T04:50:18 < emeb_mac> like having a 19-bit ADC
2018-10-20T05:08:21 < englishman> dance dance downconversion
2018-10-20T05:10:44 < emeb_mac> hrhr
2018-10-20T05:18:39 < ds2> double data rate down conversion
2018-10-20T05:18:40 < ds2> ;)
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2018-10-20T06:14:48 < englishman> if i buy marijuana for a company event, it is deductible
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2018-10-20T06:47:43 < MrMobius> wb R2COM
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2018-10-20T08:08:41 < branjb> haha holy shit: http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1540008676254.jpg
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2018-10-20T13:00:13 < jadew> is that before or after the elctions?
2018-10-20T13:09:01 < malinus> not just 4chan, /pol/ even...
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2018-10-20T13:27:57 < aakula> Hello Guys.
2018-10-20T13:28:54 < aakula> I need some help about controlling the servo motor through STM32_Smart v2.0 board.
2018-10-20T13:29:14 < aakula> I am new to micro controllers
2018-10-20T13:30:03 < aakula> I have written a Program but it is not working. I think I am missing something but can't figure out what.
2018-10-20T13:30:28 < aakula> Any help will be much appreciated.
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2018-10-20T13:32:58 < aakula> Sorry I forgot mention that this board got STM32F103C8T6 chip.
2018-10-20T13:56:10 < aakula> still waiting.....
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2018-10-20T14:23:57 < aakula> I have written a Program but it is not working. I think I am missing something but can't figure out what.
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2018-10-20T14:29:19 < gnom> aakula:  see bldc https://github.com/avislab/STM32F103
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2018-10-20T14:31:15 < gnom> http://www.avislab.com/blog/bldc-controller
2018-10-20T14:31:19 < aakula> @gnom Thanks
2018-10-20T14:32:44 < gnom> http://www.avislab.com/blog/stm32_brushless
2018-10-20T14:37:54 < catphish> aakula: can you be more specific? what isn't working?
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2018-10-20T14:38:40 < catphish> aakula: do you have a schematic, source code? specific part that isn't working, i know a fair bit about motor control
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2018-10-20T14:39:32 < aakula> @catphish Actually I am trying to understand the basic working of PWM and how to control servo with it.
2018-10-20T14:39:57 < catphish> aakula: ok, have you managed to get PWM working at all?
2018-10-20T14:40:04 < aakula> my program is very small and it is just set the position of servo at 180 degree
2018-10-20T14:40:55 < aakula> @catphish To be honest I don't know if it is working because I haven't got any equipment to test it.
2018-10-20T14:41:02 < catphish> aakula: ok, that should be quite easy, do you want to paste the code, we can probably tell you what's wrong
2018-10-20T14:41:12 < aakula> Sure.
2018-10-20T14:41:20 < catphish> aakula: do you have a servo? do you have an oscilloscope?
2018-10-20T14:41:32 < catphish> if you have neither i'd suggest you give up until you have one or both
2018-10-20T14:41:56 < aakula> I got servo but I haven't got oscilloscope.
2018-10-20T14:42:22 < catphish> ok, you can just test with that, setting servo position should be very easy
2018-10-20T14:43:11 < catphish> the basic steps are 1) configure the pin to use the alternate function (timer), 2) power up the timer 3) configure the timer
2018-10-20T14:43:33 < aakula> Here you go https://pastebin.com/2239GbEk
2018-10-20T14:43:37 < catphish> i'd be amazed if there weren't example stm32 servo output programs
2018-10-20T14:43:56 < catphish> perfect, you're using raw registers like i do, i can help :)
2018-10-20T14:44:25 < catphish> seems like you know what you're doing :)
2018-10-20T14:44:44 < aakula> There are examples but they use libraries. I want to do it at register levels myself so I can understand how things work at low level.
2018-10-20T14:44:56 < catphish> yeah, i do the same
2018-10-20T14:45:57 < aakula> :) I am just learning and I believe I am at first step.
2018-10-20T14:46:44 < aakula> I have got the reference manual open in front of me and following it slowly and writing code.
2018-10-20T14:47:02 < catphish> github seems to have just died
2018-10-20T14:47:02 < catphish> ah no, it's my internet connection
2018-10-20T14:47:34 < catphish> i'm just finding my own pwm init code to compare
2018-10-20T14:47:57 < aakula> OK.
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2018-10-20T14:48:08 < catphish> yep, i find that the best way, some people think i'm dumb and should just use the libraries :)
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2018-10-20T14:48:54 < aakula> May be we are. LOL.
2018-10-20T14:50:31 < aakula> But I am interested in learning how things work at bit levels
2018-10-20T14:50:35 < catphish> aakula: one thing you might want to try is adding a sleep between powering up the timer and configuring it
2018-10-20T14:51:04 < catphish> just occasionally you find that there's a few cycles startup time and you're configuring it before it's ready
2018-10-20T14:51:07 < aakula> OK. I will do it.
2018-10-20T14:51:16 < catphish> it's probably not the problem, but a really easy thing to quickly try
2018-10-20T14:51:47 < catphish> (after "Enable Timer 3")
2018-10-20T14:52:13 < aakula> sure. But am I right to assume that counter's default clock is internal (HSI) which oscillates at 8MHz?
2018-10-20T14:54:28 < catphish> yes, https://i.imgur.com/4cEztTp.png
2018-10-20T14:55:01 < catphish> APB1 comes from sysclk
2018-10-20T14:55:11 < catphish> which will be 8MHz by default
2018-10-20T14:56:23 < catphish> just gonna grap the referenca manual for youe chip
2018-10-20T14:56:35 < aakula> @catphish Thanks.
2018-10-20T14:58:25 < aakula> @catphish I am confused now. I think I have misunderstood something.
2018-10-20T14:58:32 < tctw_> yo
2018-10-20T14:58:37 < catphish> aakula: ?
2018-10-20T14:58:55 < catphish> you're using pin A6 right?
2018-10-20T14:59:34 < aakula> As per your image HCLK becomes 72Mhz after AHB prescaler. How it happens?
2018-10-20T15:00:42 < aakula> Prescaler is 1 so 8/1 should be 8 not 72. Right?
2018-10-20T15:00:43 < catphish> it says "72MHz max" but it's configured as 8MHz
2018-10-20T15:00:58 < catphish> that note is just telling you not to set it higher than 72
2018-10-20T15:01:11 < aakula> OK. I got it now.
2018-10-20T15:01:15 < aakula> Thanks.
2018-10-20T15:01:31 < catphish> using a PLL you can achieve much higher speeds, but 8 is the default
2018-10-20T15:01:54 < catphish> i'm struggling to find the alternate function mappings for your chip
2018-10-20T15:02:36 < aakula> Even reading things you need enough knowledge otherwise your concepts fall apart quickly. Isn't it?:)
2018-10-20T15:03:50 < catphish> yep, all the chips are diffeerent too, this is not quite the same as the L series chips i use
2018-10-20T15:04:19 < catphish> there are 3 alternate functions for that pin
2018-10-20T15:04:26 < catphish> but i can't find how you select TIM2
2018-10-20T15:04:28 < catphish> *TIM3
2018-10-20T15:05:39 < aakula> I think by default you can send only one alternate function to that pin. And it is decided which one is enabled by RCC.
2018-10-20T15:06:08 < catphish> on the chips i use, you have to select *which* AF to map to the pin
2018-10-20T15:06:36 < catphish> perhaps someone here knows if that's not the case on the F1
2018-10-20T15:06:52 < catphish> maybe they're just all connected simultaneously?
2018-10-20T15:09:18 < aakula> sorry no luck with adding the delay.
2018-10-20T15:09:32 < catphish> ok :)
2018-10-20T15:10:11 < aakula> I have attached servo's red to board's vbat pin. Is this OK?
2018-10-20T15:10:44 < catphish> probably not
2018-10-20T15:10:51 < catphish> does your board have a 5v pin?
2018-10-20T15:10:59 < catphish> or a "VIN"
2018-10-20T15:11:38 < aakula> Nopes. It got VDDA.
2018-10-20T15:12:14 < aakula> It got 5v connections but pins are not soldered.
2018-10-20T15:12:28 < catphish> anyway, vbat is *not* what you want
2018-10-20T15:12:34 < aakula> I think I need to solder them to get 5v pin.
2018-10-20T15:12:43 < catphish> are you powering from usb?
2018-10-20T15:12:54 < aakula> yes.
2018-10-20T15:12:59 < catphish> what board is this?
2018-10-20T15:13:43 < aakula> it is STM32 Smart v2
2018-10-20T15:13:52 < aakula> https://wiki.stm32duino.com/index.php?title=STM32_Smart_V2.0
2018-10-20T15:14:20 < catphish> yeah, i see its power pins aren't soldered
2018-10-20T15:15:18 < aakula> Can I use VDDA?
2018-10-20T15:16:08 < catphish> yes, i think so, for testing, keep it brief, the 3.3v voltage regulator probably isn't designed to power motors, but it'll be ok for testing
2018-10-20T15:16:27 < aakula> OK
2018-10-20T15:17:33 < aakula> nopes. not working.
2018-10-20T15:17:41 < aakula> is there anyway to test servo?
2018-10-20T15:18:44 < aakula> What I do is I will flash a program from github first and see if it runs fine and servo shows some life.
2018-10-20T15:19:03 < aakula> then I will come back to my program again.
2018-10-20T15:19:18 < catphish> ok cool
2018-10-20T15:19:24 < Steffanx> time for a logic analyzer or a scope aakula.
2018-10-20T15:19:37 < Steffanx> perhaps ebay a 5 dollar one.
2018-10-20T15:19:44 < Steffanx> Then you can check what you actually output.
2018-10-20T15:19:51 < catphish> your program looks good to me but i haven't checked every individual register :( i dont know the F series chips that well
2018-10-20T15:19:58 < aakula> I think I got logic analyzer
2018-10-20T15:20:05 < catphish> i'd def recommend a cheap logic analyser for this
2018-10-20T15:20:17 < aakula> Hang on.
2018-10-20T15:20:18 < catphish> then you cn verify the pwm timig too
2018-10-20T15:28:26 < aakula> ok. I connected Logic analyzer
2018-10-20T15:28:43 < aakula> It is Saleae Logic 16
2018-10-20T15:29:09 < aakula> and CH1 is connected to PA6
2018-10-20T15:29:48 < aakula> I am using Saleae Logic 1.2.18 software
2018-10-20T15:33:13 < aakula> I don't see any activity.
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2018-10-20T15:40:52 < Steffanx> its a while since ive worked with F1, but you might also have to disable the AFIO clock.
2018-10-20T15:40:57 < Steffanx> *enable
2018-10-20T15:41:00 < Steffanx> lol, not disable.
2018-10-20T15:42:11 < aakula> I believed AFIO is only required to when you want to send output to an alternate pin rather than the default one. No?
2018-10-20T15:43:34 < aakula> For example Timer3's channel one is defaulted to PA6 as per pinout diagram.
2018-10-20T15:44:05 < aakula> if you want to send output to another pin of your choice then you will use AFIO.
2018-10-20T15:44:28 < aakula> This is what I understood from the reference manual.
2018-10-20T15:52:06 < aakula> I am using this logic analyzer for the first time and I think I am missing something while setting it up. Anyone got knowledge of Saleae Logic 16 with Saleae Logic software?
2018-10-20T15:53:47 < Steffanx> You can hardly make a mistake there. Wire up gnd, wire up the input and you should be ok
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2018-10-20T16:04:43 < catphish> aakula: if in doubt about whether something needs to be powered or not, power it :) you can always turn it off later
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2018-10-20T17:23:35 < mawk> I'm making a power meter on prototype board
2018-10-20T17:23:44 < mawk> are there guidelines for not dying
2018-10-20T17:41:45 < benishor> keep all leads/connections short?
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2018-10-20T18:39:32 < mawk> up to 4kW Cracki 
2018-10-20T18:39:44 < mawk> that goes somewhere on the board
2018-10-20T18:39:52 < mawk> but I'm not verry worried about arcs or anything
2018-10-20T18:40:15 < mawk> well 230V and around 16A
2018-10-20T18:40:27 < mawk> but 230V doesn't make arcs just like that
2018-10-20T18:40:55 < mawk> you have to make the first move if you want an arc with that
2018-10-20T18:41:01 < mawk> it doesn't jump over copper pads or stuff
2018-10-20T18:41:32 < mawk> lol
2018-10-20T18:41:50 < mawk> yes
2018-10-20T18:42:30 < mawk> measure current with some hall effect sensor, and measure voltage phase with an optocoupler
2018-10-20T18:43:06 < mawk> the question is about the isolation of the thing
2018-10-20T18:43:22 < mawk> or the general guidelines about getting mains voltage on a board
2018-10-20T18:44:25 < mawk> my initial goal was just to put everything on a single prototype board, hope I did the soldering right, then get some plastic housing
2018-10-20T18:44:33 < mawk> is that enough to get that thing qualified as safe ?
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2018-10-20T18:46:48 < mawk> I'm using a hall effect sensor that presumably makes the current to be measured go around a little loop inside the IC
2018-10-20T18:47:15 < mawk> the second place there's mains voltage is at the power supply, and the third is at the optocoupler where I measure the phase regarding to current
2018-10-20T18:48:21 < mawk> so technically the electronics side is electrically isolated
2018-10-20T18:48:27 < mawk> but still, everything is on the same board
2018-10-20T18:48:41 < mawk> if some garbage wire falls on the thing it could short something
2018-10-20T18:50:38 < karlp> put the isolation where you like it.
2018-10-20T18:50:41 < karlp> there's many wyas and paths
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2018-10-20T19:03:30 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-20T19:03:39 < mawk> I could do that with the mains part
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2018-10-20T19:46:17 < Steffanx> uh?
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2018-10-20T19:47:29 < BrainDamage> he didn't find anything to complain online, so he's falling back to that poor bastard
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2018-10-20T20:00:54 < zyp> telephone lines are still a thing there?
2018-10-20T20:01:53 < zyp> that doesn't sound very fun
2018-10-20T20:08:03 < zyp> in norway it's apparently pretty common now that they don't fix old copper lines when they break
2018-10-20T20:08:15 < mawk> here too
2018-10-20T20:08:20 < mawk> they're withdrawing copper lines
2018-10-20T20:08:32 < zyp> new houses aren't getting copper either
2018-10-20T20:08:42 < mawk> they even stopped assigning copper line telephone numbers
2018-10-20T20:08:54 < zyp> apartment I'm living in now doesn't have any copper lines, just two fiber lines
2018-10-20T20:08:55 < mawk> and go with VoIP numbers instead
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2018-10-20T20:09:15 < zyp> new house doesn't get copper either, just got two conduits for fiber
2018-10-20T20:09:23 < mawk> the problem in France is that only one ISP owns the copper lines, and the other rent it
2018-10-20T20:09:35 < zyp> same situation here
2018-10-20T20:09:39 < mawk> so that ISP decided to not care at all about the state of the copper, so it's damaging service for the other ISPs
2018-10-20T20:10:07 < mawk> Orange is the isp, iirc it's present in many european countries
2018-10-20T20:10:52 < zyp> we don't have those here, ours are Telenor
2018-10-20T20:11:24 < zyp> which was created when the state-run phone stuff was privatized some time in the nineties or something
2018-10-20T20:11:32 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-20T20:11:34 < mawk> same thing for Orange
2018-10-20T20:11:42 < mawk> it was France Telecom before
2018-10-20T20:11:47 < catphish> we still mostly use copper + VDSL in the UK
2018-10-20T20:11:52 < mawk> internet by coax is pretty strong here, too
2018-10-20T20:12:02 < catphish> though finally this year new houses are starting to get fiber bt default
2018-10-20T20:12:10 < catphish> *by
2018-10-20T20:12:57 < zyp> coax is common in older areas here
2018-10-20T20:13:09 < zyp> I had that until I moved three years ago
2018-10-20T20:15:42 < catphish> this pnp thing is fun
2018-10-20T20:16:21 < catphish> https://imgur.com/a/18M826w
2018-10-20T20:18:29 < karlp> is it actually poorly performing, or just looks bad cracki?
2018-10-20T20:19:01 < karlp> looks don't mean much with telco gear, that's all.
2018-10-20T20:19:06 < catphish> Cracki: i hadn't thought about that :(
2018-10-20T20:19:23 < karlp> wellif it cahnged overnight, it's sure as fuck not the lines magically becoming shit all of a sudden
2018-10-20T20:19:44 < catphish> Cracki: i have huge steppers so hopefully i can underpower them and they'll cool ok
2018-10-20T20:20:23 < catphish> interesting
2018-10-20T20:20:32 < catphish> the steppers i have are nema17 2A
2018-10-20T20:21:25 < catphish> although there's only 1 installed right now i was gonna use motors on both sides for the Y
2018-10-20T20:21:33 < catphish> so very little torque needed per motor
2018-10-20T20:22:25 < catphish> my head design: https://imgur.com/a/7Yp7c1P
2018-10-20T20:22:31 < catphish> just awaiting some more parts to finish it all
2018-10-20T20:23:51 < catphish> there's one problem with my design, the plates can't be milled, if the PLA fails i will need to change the design a little to allow for milling
2018-10-20T20:25:03 < catphish> Cracki: 99% yes, but there's curved holes in the sides for the belt to loop through
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2018-10-20T20:26:31 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UUk9Cmq62poCLgm-udRTK4LRZ0peUnGp/view?usp=sharing some work stuff
2018-10-20T20:26:49 < bitmask> yay! car is up and running, so good to drive it again
2018-10-20T20:27:12 < catphish> Cracki: i'm sure i can change the design, worst case i can just take the belt straight through top to botto
2018-10-20T20:27:16 < catphish> *bottom
2018-10-20T20:27:26 < catphish> ie just another hole
2018-10-20T20:34:31 < catphish> Cracki: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3150550 << that's the part
2018-10-20T20:34:55 < catphish> the belt loops through the hole in each side
2018-10-20T20:35:20 < catphish> it's probably the worst aspect of the overall design
2018-10-20T20:36:08 < catphish> it terminates
2018-10-20T20:36:25 < catphish> yes :)
2018-10-20T20:37:23 < catphish> the most troublesome part is probably this one: https://i.imgur.com/PTdXI1o.jpg
2018-10-20T20:37:37 < catphish> is has everything, belts, and motor
2018-10-20T20:38:39 < catphish> those motor mounting plates that go at the end of the axes i might be able to buy off the shelf, not sure
2018-10-20T20:39:01 < catphish> it was just more convenient to print them than try to buy them
2018-10-20T20:42:05 < catphish> never even considered plywood
2018-10-20T20:42:31 < catphish> this guy sells the parts as a set: http://www.betztechnik.ca/store/p39/Pick_and_place_frame_machined_brackets.html
2018-10-20T20:42:36 < catphish> but i wanted to design my own :(
2018-10-20T20:43:05 < catphish> but i might have to give in and buy his
2018-10-20T20:43:37 < catphish> i'm not sure, i'd have to ask around
2018-10-20T20:43:58 < catphish> perhaps i'll try to design to make those belt attachments machine-shop friendly
2018-10-20T20:44:02 < catphish> and try to find someone to machine it
2018-10-20T20:46:30 < catphish> yeah that's definitely the plan
2018-10-20T20:46:40 < Steffanx> You can always have something laser cut out of POM or something.
2018-10-20T20:46:53 < catphish> people have warned me about PLA so my plan was always to test first, then get stuff made better later
2018-10-20T20:46:57 < Steffanx> isnt there this protothingy that does that for hceap?
2018-10-20T20:47:04 < Steffanx> in the uk
2018-10-20T20:47:09 < catphish> dunno
2018-10-20T20:47:51 < catphish> lmk if you know somewhere, i haven't really looked yet
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2018-10-20T22:17:37 < Steffanx> i think i was thinking about protolabs, but they dont laser cut it seems
2018-10-20T22:17:40 < Steffanx> @ mr catphish
2018-10-20T22:17:56 < Steffanx> they do cnc-ing though, but no clue about the prices
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2018-10-20T22:31:10 < catphish> Steffanx: thanks, i did find them i think they'll be quite expensive, but asked them for a cnc quote, it's not automated as i'd hoped :(
2018-10-20T22:32:37 < catphish> i think the best option (for cost) will probably be printing in ABS
2018-10-20T22:33:05 < catphish> fiber ABS printing would cost about £10 per part
2018-10-20T22:33:55 < catphish> lol i thought that a minute ago, but i probably won't
2018-10-20T22:34:38 < catphish> https://www.3dhubs.com/ gives good prices for plastic FDM printing
2018-10-20T22:34:48 < catphish> i love their preview tool, it has a "banana for scale"
2018-10-20T22:41:27 < catphish> it's cheaper for red than "no colour preference", tards
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2018-10-20T22:56:20 < catphish> looks like waterjet would be the best option for me
2018-10-20T22:59:45 < catphish> Cracki: found a company near me that does laser and waterjet, although it might be cheaper to find someone that does it in bulk / online
2018-10-20T23:00:51 < catphish> yeah literally just half a dozen small parts
2018-10-20T23:01:08 < catphish> i guess postage becomes a factor
2018-10-20T23:03:00 < catphish> well i always start with 3d printing myself with PLA, which costs essentially £0
2018-10-20T23:03:26 < catphish> i could probably build a reprap ABS printer
2018-10-20T23:04:29 < catphish> that's ok, i print in a small room, usually closing the door and leaving it alone
2018-10-20T23:06:09 < catphish> how annoying
2018-10-20T23:06:17 < catphish> even PLA makes my house smell a but
2018-10-20T23:06:18 < catphish> *bit
2018-10-20T23:07:37 < catphish> what happens to the material in laser cutting?
2018-10-20T23:08:05 < catphish> where does it go?
2018-10-20T23:08:39 < catphish> ah ok
2018-10-20T23:08:59 < catphish> i guess the heat is enough to evaporate and burn the metal
2018-10-20T23:09:19 < catphish> aluminium oxide probably isn't something you want to breate
2018-10-20T23:09:50 < catphish> oh yeah, i knew i'd heard of it
2018-10-20T23:10:06 < catphish> maybe not, this company i'm looking at says they cut steel with it
2018-10-20T23:10:28 < catphish> 6mm stainless steel!
2018-10-20T23:11:03 < catphish> well i won't be doing it myself, so not too worried
2018-10-20T23:11:46 < catphish> these people are really near me http://www.accujet.co.uk/waterjet/
2018-10-20T23:12:01 < catphish> so i'll email them some designs when i'm ready and ask
2018-10-20T23:12:49 < catphish> i've been using 6mm for everything, i don't know why
2018-10-20T23:13:43 < catphish> they can cut up to 200mm!
2018-10-20T23:14:21 < catphish> i do
2018-10-20T23:15:09 < catphish> here's a thing they cut, looks roughly like what i need http://www.accujet.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/waterjet/IMG_3515.JPG
2018-10-20T23:15:26 < catphish> they said they will laser smaller stuff
2018-10-20T23:15:41 < catphish> so that's likely what i'll want, whatever's cheaper really
2018-10-20T23:16:15 < catphish> is there any reason i shouldn't just stick with 6mm?
2018-10-20T23:17:22 < catphish> yeah, makes sense for the stationary parts, will add a lot of inertia for the large moving parts :(
2018-10-20T23:19:10 < catphish> 2mm is enough not to bend with the force of the belt?
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2018-10-20T23:21:59 < catphish> well they will laser cut 2mm or 3mm steel, so perhaps thats the way to go
2018-10-20T23:23:14 < catphish> there's some for sale here: https://ooznest.co.uk/product/nema17-motor-mounting-plate/
2018-10-20T23:23:40 < catphish> they use 3mm aluminium
2018-10-20T23:24:03 < catphish> i guess alum is lighter and less rigid
2018-10-20T23:24:31 < catphish> maybe slightly thicker aluminium is the answer if they can cut it then
2018-10-20T23:25:05 < catphish> just need to design how the belts will mount :)
2018-10-20T23:27:38 < catphish> just checked, a simple slot top-to-bottom will be fine, i was overthinking it
2018-10-20T23:30:30 < catphish> i thought it was interesting that they used such large pulleys
2018-10-20T23:30:52 < catphish> 16t pulleys will mean an extra idler pulley alongside it
2018-10-20T23:31:31 < catphish> i wouldn't have chosen the larger pulleys, but the person who came up with the design i'm mostly copying prefers them
2018-10-20T23:31:59 < catphish> does seem like resolution would be a problem
2018-10-20T23:32:49 < catphish> i see, these are 50 tooth
2018-10-20T23:33:04 < catphish> so 0.03mm
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2018-10-20T23:33:43 < catphish> maybe half that with 1/32 stepping
2018-10-20T23:34:18 < catphish> sure, well in any case that should be plenty for my 0603 pnp
2018-10-20T23:35:40 < catphish> on the other hand, 20t pulleys are *much* more common, and seem like they'd improve accuracy, so it's tempting to switch
2018-10-20T23:35:53 < catphish> and i'm using 20t idlers everywhere, so it makes sense
2018-10-20T23:36:38 < catphish> that could be the reasoning for the larger pulley
2018-10-20T23:36:59 < catphish> i have 50t pulleys, so i'll stick with it for now :)
2018-10-20T23:37:29 < catphish> that's about the speed i want, so i'll stick with it
2018-10-20T23:38:14 < catphish>  :)
2018-10-20T23:38:25 < catphish> not sure how much accuracy i need, obviously i'll go for as much speed as i can
2018-10-20T23:42:22 < catphish> yeah probably needs a little of that :(
2018-10-20T23:45:13 < catphish> lol
2018-10-20T23:50:59 < catphish> right, redesigned my parts with 3mm material and machineable belt holes - https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3166561
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2018-10-20T23:54:49 < catphish> will test with PLA for now but will get a quote to water cut or laser those replacements
2018-10-20T23:58:30 < catphish> round is fine :)
2018-10-20T23:58:45 < catphish> square was just easier to model :)
2018-10-20T23:59:41 < catphish> well i'll make that change
2018-10-20T23:59:48 < catphish> need to make all the holes bigger too
--- Day changed Sun Oct 21 2018
2018-10-21T00:00:03 < catphish> i've made 3mm holes for m3 screws
2018-10-21T00:00:07 < aandrew> catphish: https://imgur.com/a/7Yp7c1P interesting design, why did you chose that method?
2018-10-21T00:00:55 < catphish> Cracki: through holes
2018-10-21T00:01:04 < catphish> i want them close, but not gripping the screw
2018-10-21T00:01:21 < catphish> apparantly such a hole should be +10%
2018-10-21T00:01:56 < catphish> aandrew: i looked through other designs, that one just seemed like the best, but i'm open to other ideas
2018-10-21T00:02:40 < catphish> ok
2018-10-21T00:02:57 < aandrew> catphish: wasn't criticizing, just trying to understand
2018-10-21T00:03:35 < catphish> aandrew: to be more specific 1) it drives 2 x Z axes with a single motor 2) it dries when both + and -
2018-10-21T00:03:46 < catphish> aandrew: it's also moderately simple
2018-10-21T00:03:58 < aandrew> it looks like it drives the two axes in opposite directions
2018-10-21T00:04:32 < catphish> other options are https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ZbBDGzJDtgQ/Vsa5Z8trEjI/AAAAAAAAAgQ/QgqQrq0NnAo/s320/Screen%2BShot%2B2016-02-18%2Bat%2B10.38.30%2BPM.jpeg
2018-10-21T00:05:04 < catphish> or https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UGgzrSZYdy4/VsDmQwoY-5I/AAAAAAAAAe0/HWsadcnuPNw/s320/Screen%2BShot%2B2016-02-13%2Bat%2B9.46.03%2BPM.jpeg
2018-10-21T00:05:18 < catphish> the latter is surprisingly common and uses a spring return but i hate it
2018-10-21T00:05:53 < aandrew> spring return sounds like absolute ass
2018-10-21T00:06:02 < catphish> i prefer the ones that use one head as a counterweight for the other
2018-10-21T00:06:37 < catphish> Cracki: indeed :)
2018-10-21T00:07:46 < catphish> the nozzles are 3 parts: 1) a nema8 motor with a hollow shaft 2) a hacky adapter 3) a juki nozzle (they have an awesome range for different components)
2018-10-21T00:08:05 < catphish> Cracki: https://www.robotdigg.com/product/517/Adapter-for-Juki-Nozzles-to-5mm-Hollow-Shaft-Stepper
2018-10-21T00:09:33 < catphish> that's probably true, the hollow steppers seem very popular
2018-10-21T00:09:59 < catphish> i'm mostly just following what other people have done for now
2018-10-21T00:10:31 < catphish> this is the project i'm semi-copying https://hackaday.io/project/9319-diy-pick-and-place
2018-10-21T00:10:40 < catphish> its nema8
2018-10-21T00:10:45 < catphish> all my others are nema17
2018-10-21T00:11:01 < aandrew> sigh
2018-10-21T00:11:07 < aandrew> I always, always, always forget layer pairs in altium
2018-10-21T00:11:29 < aandrew> and then have to fuck around with scripts to move all the 3d bodies and assembly layers to the alternative layer after I've already laid the shit out
2018-10-21T00:11:49 < aandrew> englishman: do you want assembly drawings or is centroid data enough?
2018-10-21T00:12:21 < aandrew> wow that PNP is slow as shit
2018-10-21T00:12:31 < aandrew> wonder how much it can be sped up without losing accuracy
2018-10-21T00:13:12 < aandrew> what are the steppers on the actual nozzles doing? seems a weird way to create vacuum
2018-10-21T00:13:25 < catphish> the steppers on the nozzle rotate the parts
2018-10-21T00:13:37 < aandrew> oh, that should have been fucking obvious
2018-10-21T00:13:39 < catphish> lol
2018-10-21T00:13:42 < aandrew> head. desk.
2018-10-21T00:13:55 < catphish> Cracki: asked the same question like 30 seconds ago :)
2018-10-21T00:14:03 < aandrew> haha really?
2018-10-21T00:14:06 < aandrew> fuuuuuck
2018-10-21T00:14:21 < catphish> <Cracki> I was just wondering why two motors pointing down, but the nozzles need to turn of course
2018-10-21T00:14:32 < BrainDamage> what feed system as re you going to use?
2018-10-21T00:14:34 < aandrew> yeah the nozzles need to turn. duh
2018-10-21T00:14:35 < BrainDamage> linear tape?
2018-10-21T00:15:44 < catphish> initially, nothing, just cut tape lying on the bed opened by hand
2018-10-21T00:15:58 < catphish> but there are lots of designs for feeders
2018-10-21T00:16:49 < catphish> this video shows one working with manually positioned open cut tape https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=61&v=Ril6AWOdqfg
2018-10-21T00:17:07 < catphish> but this page has lots of feeder designs http://openpnp.org/hardware/
2018-10-21T00:19:11 < BrainDamage> I always read pnp the transistor
2018-10-21T00:19:19 < BrainDamage> and I imagine some diy ic fab
2018-10-21T00:19:27 < catphish> Cracki: "attach tubing on one side, and it gets twisted a little?" << yes, although there are adapters one can buy that allow you to join pipes and rotate freely
2018-10-21T00:19:40 < catphish> BrainDamage: that would be much cooler
2018-10-21T00:19:58 < BrainDamage> it's sort of doable, just expensive
2018-10-21T00:20:20 < BrainDamage> just the kiln for thermal oxide growth would be 500-800 bucks
2018-10-21T00:20:49 < catphish> i always thought it would be awesome to design an ASIC
2018-10-21T00:20:54 < catphish> but the costs seem insane
2018-10-21T00:21:36 < Steffanx> Isnt there this fab that does it for not even that much? In a package of your choice..
2018-10-21T00:21:49 < Steffanx> Dont remember the name
2018-10-21T00:21:56 < Steffanx> Must be chinese.
2018-10-21T00:22:23 < BrainDamage> if you just wire the metal layers using a matrix of fixed transistors, and share die area you can get away with 10k or so
2018-10-21T00:23:19 < aandrew> there are relatively cheap ways to get ASICs developed
2018-10-21T00:23:26 < aandrew> you need to piggyback on existing processes and runs
2018-10-21T00:23:46 < aandrew> I haven't done it, it seems my current push in professonal development is getting good at RF
2018-10-21T00:24:33 < aandrew> Cracki: yeah that is a single nozzle and way faster than the other vid
2018-10-21T00:24:35 < aandrew> with two
2018-10-21T00:25:14 < catphish> it's easy enough to ramp up the speed i hope
2018-10-21T00:25:30 < aandrew> this video's got real smooth movement
2018-10-21T00:25:35 < aandrew> and great feeders from the look of it
2018-10-21T00:25:38 < catphish> the purpose of the dual nozzles is more so that i can do 2 sizes of component in one run
2018-10-21T00:25:47 < catphish> that does look super nice
2018-10-21T00:25:50 < catphish> that last video
2018-10-21T00:26:15 < aandrew> some of those pro systems are crazy
2018-10-21T00:26:20 < aandrew> the latest siemens ones 
2018-10-21T00:26:27 < aandrew> they pick up lke a dozen components and then place them 
2018-10-21T00:26:31 < catphish> their speed is insane
2018-10-21T00:26:32 < aandrew> at lightning speed
2018-10-21T00:26:42 < aandrew> the vibe feeders for 0201 and 01005 is also cool as hell
2018-10-21T00:27:11 < aandrew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQcf46hquNQ I think is the one
2018-10-21T00:29:02 < aandrew> I did some work repairing those feeders years ago
2018-10-21T00:29:09 < Steffanx> Thats crazy :D
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2018-10-21T00:32:34 < zyp> the siplace?
2018-10-21T00:32:50 < zyp> yeah, that
2018-10-21T00:34:43 < aandrew> that and they use Lemo connectors (of course) which are beautiful but fucking expensive
2018-10-21T00:35:42 < catphish> that 20 nozzle siplace is insane
2018-10-21T00:39:01 < catphish> i have no idea how much this project is costing
2018-10-21T00:39:35 < catphish> i'm choosing to track only the BOM of components i actually use in the final design, not all the stuff i try and discard
2018-10-21T00:40:02 < catphish> luckily the PLA is cheap :)
2018-10-21T00:43:31 < Steffanx> If you knew what it would cost you wouldnt have started with it :P
2018-10-21T00:44:09 < catphish> lol
2018-10-21T00:44:22 < catphish> it should be about £1000 GBP plus mistakes :)
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2018-10-21T01:21:50 < aandrew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gt8a_ETPRE
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2018-10-21T01:26:36 < BrainDamage> actually here you do need a license for drones ...
2018-10-21T01:27:04 < englishman> aandrew: you can just send me gerbers, bom and centroid (XY) you can send altidumb files too if you want, they will help me out
2018-10-21T01:27:09 < BrainDamage> hello
2018-10-21T01:27:15 < englishman> aandrew: it doesnt get faster, diy PNP is a joke
2018-10-21T01:29:47 < englishman> hahahahhaa
2018-10-21T01:29:50 < englishman> no
2018-10-21T01:30:25 < englishman> no
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2018-10-21T01:32:59 < englishman> i can see 1000cph if they are 0805 only, no ICs or any other packages at all
2018-10-21T01:33:05 < aandrew> 16cpm is faster than I can do
2018-10-21T01:33:11 < aandrew> well no that's not true
2018-10-21T01:33:26 < englishman> they have nice feeders https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t2hQxZ6_u4
2018-10-21T01:33:27 < aandrew> but when I do it I put a bit of solder down on one pad of the passives
2018-10-21T01:33:32 < englishman> god so much effort went into that
2018-10-21T01:33:37 < aandrew> then have all the passives of one type out alreayd (say 10k resistors)
2018-10-21T01:33:40 < aandrew> then tack down each of them
2018-10-21T01:33:48 < aandrew> I bet I can do 16 in a minute without any trouble whatsoever
2018-10-21T01:33:57 < aandrew> but then I have to go solder the other side down
2018-10-21T01:34:03 < aandrew> but the pnps aren't soldering at all
2018-10-21T01:34:10 < englishman> no you cant count that
2018-10-21T01:34:35 < englishman> what a waste of time
2018-10-21T01:34:49 < englishman> aandrew: you have my email right
2018-10-21T01:35:07 < aandrew> englishman: pm it again I'm sure I do but it's faster that way
2018-10-21T01:35:13 < aandrew> I'm just fixing up my layer shit atm
2018-10-21T01:35:20 < aandrew> I always forget to set up layer pairs BEFORE layout
2018-10-21T01:35:33 < englishman> no prob i can count anything you send me as nonfinal
2018-10-21T01:35:34 < aandrew> so now I get to select all the bottom components, flip to top, flip back to bottom and the layer pairs will be right
2018-10-21T01:35:39 < aandrew> ok
2018-10-21T01:35:47 < englishman> anyway il look at it monday morning you can send it whenever
2018-10-21T01:36:15 < englishman> i can get you proto pcbs in HOT PINK
2018-10-21T01:36:15 < aandrew> perfect
2018-10-21T01:36:19 < aandrew> hahaha
2018-10-21T01:36:22 < aandrew> barbie boards
2018-10-21T01:36:27 < englishman> did you see my shit???
2018-10-21T01:36:35 < aandrew> nope
2018-10-21T01:36:44 < aandrew> I've been jewwing it up for the last week
2018-10-21T01:36:45 < englishman> omg
2018-10-21T01:36:48 < englishman> fucking imgur
2018-10-21T01:37:00 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/pvWtb6y.jpg?1
2018-10-21T01:37:02 < aandrew> that's why I'm late on this contract
2018-10-21T01:37:05 < aandrew> and working the weeknd
2018-10-21T01:37:08 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/cHNMIGb.jpg
2018-10-21T01:37:11 < aandrew> well no I work weekends regardless
2018-10-21T01:37:16 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/Ozohtik.jpg
2018-10-21T01:37:24 < aandrew> hot pink and peach, nice
2018-10-21T01:37:31 < englishman> im working on my cedar deck and gazebo
2018-10-21T01:37:55 < aandrew> wow did a blind monkey solder that last one
2018-10-21T01:38:12 < aandrew> englishman: nice. we were gonna build a gazebo but dude wanted $crazy 
2018-10-21T01:38:20 < aandrew> put in a concrete patio last year
2018-10-21T01:38:24 < aandrew> this year was some landscaping
2018-10-21T01:38:25 < englishman> i soldered that
2018-10-21T01:38:27 < aandrew> shit's expensive, yo
2018-10-21T01:38:27 < englishman> (in 2011)
2018-10-21T01:38:54 < aandrew> were you a blind monkey in 2011?
2018-10-21T01:39:02 < englishman> i used leaded solder so i wasnt that smart
2018-10-21T01:39:04 < aandrew> I joke, it is pretty crusty though
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2018-10-21T01:44:11 < kakimir> https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/03/18/social-farting-anti-smoking-ad_n_2901325.html
2018-10-21T01:44:30 < kakimir> we had fart war with a friend
2018-10-21T01:46:46 < aandrew> kakimir: I'm always worried about shitting myself in a fart war which is why I don't partake
2018-10-21T01:46:57 < aandrew> because even if you win, you still lose
2018-10-21T01:47:30 < kakimir> we gassed ourselfs
2018-10-21T01:47:36 < aandrew> lol
2018-10-21T01:51:20 < Steffanx> dear crt, try to behave.
2018-10-21T01:52:04 < kakimir> hell was cut loose when the first fart fired
2018-10-21T01:52:50 < Steffanx> stop the alcohol/drugs kakimir
2018-10-21T01:53:23 < englishman> good evening stefs
2018-10-21T01:54:10 < Steffanx> hello englishman
2018-10-21T01:54:33 < englishman> you are up late
2018-10-21T01:54:35 < englishman> are you innovating
2018-10-21T01:55:15 < Steffanx> nah
2018-10-21T01:55:36 < kakimir> it was only mcdonalds Steffanx 
2018-10-21T01:55:37 < englishman> are there cats there
2018-10-21T01:56:10 < Steffanx> The cat is outside. She has to be outside at night
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2018-10-21T01:57:20 < kakimir> I'm pretty sure fart war is a social phenomena
2018-10-21T01:57:53 < Steffanx> in a finnish sauna maybe
2018-10-21T01:57:56 < kakimir> social evolution
2018-10-21T01:58:39 < kakimir> bonding and show of dominance
2018-10-21T01:59:49 < Steffanx> are you sure it was just mcdonalds?
2018-10-21T01:59:57 < kakimir> communication
2018-10-21T02:00:13 < kakimir> where is laurenceb I want to share this
2018-10-21T02:00:32 < BrainDamage> here one of my neighbors got a dog and puts him outside in the stairwell the night
2018-10-21T02:00:33 < Steffanx> try /query 
2018-10-21T02:00:36 < BrainDamage> that poor dog wails all the time
2018-10-21T02:00:46 < BrainDamage> I'm kind of tempted to confront them
2018-10-21T02:00:55 < BrainDamage> not just for the noise, but for that poor dog
2018-10-21T02:01:03 < Steffanx> but that's a dog.. there is a huge difference between a cat and a dog
2018-10-21T02:01:20 < Steffanx> a cat can perfectly handle it.
2018-10-21T02:01:25 < BrainDamage> well, it's more about: are they suffering or not
2018-10-21T02:01:34 < BrainDamage> if the cat is suffering, I wouldn't do it either
2018-10-21T02:01:47 < Steffanx>  as long as its not freezing..
2018-10-21T02:03:19 < Steffanx> i would put kakimir outside for sure. even if he would suffer.
2018-10-21T02:03:32 < Steffanx> fart contents -_-
2018-10-21T02:03:33 < BrainDamage> that's a separate issue
2018-10-21T02:03:37 < Steffanx> *contest
2018-10-21T02:03:47 < BrainDamage> I mean, nobody would complain
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2018-10-21T03:48:45 < Laurenceb124> sheet man
2018-10-21T03:48:54 < Laurenceb124> been working with amerimutt all day
2018-10-21T03:49:18 < Laurenceb124> I mean 56% not 78% 
2018-10-21T03:49:42 < Laurenceb124> bricklaying is fun
2018-10-21T03:49:52 < Laurenceb124> but now I'm knackered
2018-10-21T03:51:23 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/hXRMYKG6
2018-10-21T03:55:52 < Laurenceb124> le 78% face: when I look in a mirror
2018-10-21T04:05:24 < Laurenceb124> bricklaying loicense
2018-10-21T04:18:46 < emeb_mac> "is that code?"
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2018-10-21T04:25:36 < MrMobius> laying pipe maybe
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2018-10-21T04:41:20 < Laurenceb124> TEACH MEN NOT TO RAPE
2018-10-21T04:45:09 < jadew> lol @ that tranny MMA fighter
2018-10-21T04:45:16 < jadew> must take real guts to fight women
2018-10-21T04:45:24 < jadew> I wonder if he ever lost
2018-10-21T04:46:24 < jadew> lol, he got his ass kicked by a chick once
2018-10-21T04:53:49 < jadew> I wonder if the fighters can refuse the fight
2018-10-21T04:54:00 < jadew> or if they do it because they think they can beat a man
2018-10-21T05:01:59 < Laurenceb124> Russian grrrl is a MMA fighter
2018-10-21T05:02:19 < Laurenceb124> she has scars on her face from that shit
2018-10-21T05:03:02 < Laurenceb124> sometime I think she is full of BS, but the scars seem real
2018-10-21T05:06:27 < Laurenceb124> >he
2018-10-21T05:06:36 < Laurenceb124> I see what u did there
2018-10-21T05:06:43 < Laurenceb124> (s)he uses methlab
2018-10-21T05:09:13 < jadew> are there any standards on the maximum dimensions of a USB dongle?
2018-10-21T05:10:12 < Laurenceb124> think so
2018-10-21T05:10:20 < Laurenceb124> at least width and height
2018-10-21T05:11:14 < jadew> yeah, that's what I'm hoping to find
2018-10-21T05:14:22 < Laurenceb124> heh I dont have it to hand sorry, but iirc I found it documented in usb spec stuff somewhere
2018-10-21T05:15:00  * Laurenceb124 zzz
2018-10-21T05:15:56 < jadew> night
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2018-10-21T06:28:28 < PeterM> does anyone even stock capacitors anymore?
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2018-10-21T06:30:11 < PeterM> gday cobba
2018-10-21T06:35:13 < Sadale> wow. In kicad I can right click on a component and view the documentation!
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2018-10-21T06:51:39 < englishman> you want capacitors
2018-10-21T06:51:42 < englishman> i have capacitors
2018-10-21T06:52:53 < englishman> one, ten, hundred nano
2018-10-21T06:53:01 < englishman> sixteen volts, fifty volts
2018-10-21T06:53:16 < englishman> i got your x five rs, i got your x seven rs
2018-10-21T06:53:37 < PeterM> sadale do you need to input that information, or is it fetched automatically?
2018-10-21T06:54:11 < Sadale> For the microcontroller I put there, if I click on that, it'd open my browser and visit the URL to the datasheet.
2018-10-21T06:54:20 < Sadale> Not perfect. But still cool.
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2018-10-21T07:04:23 < jadew> 10.5 mm is too thick for a USB device?
2018-10-21T07:06:39 < jadew> I guess I have to change the USB connector, it has two pins (connected to the shiled) which protrude 2mm into the case
2018-10-21T07:06:59 < jadew> that's what's adding 4 mm to its thickness (because I have to keep it symmetrical)
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2018-10-21T09:31:17 < con3> I'm trying to get the PLL going, it works when I enter random values, but I can't seem to set the clock correctly. Here's my configuration 
2018-10-21T09:31:24 < con3> I've set the  RCC->PLLCFGR |= (RCC_PLLCFGR_PLLN_5|RCC_PLLCFGR_PLLN_7 | RCC_PLLCFGR_PLLN_4 |RCC_PLLCFGR_PLLN_2|RCC_PLLCFGR_PLLM_3);
2018-10-21T09:31:47 < con3> so that the divider is /8 for M, it's multiplied by 180 for N and divided by 2 for P
2018-10-21T09:32:43 < con3> which is what i'd have in cube: https://imgur.com/a/3IjfOFf
2018-10-21T09:33:16 < con3> I'm using a nucleo f446re and I'm a novice at using the registers, so I'm basing this off stm's snippets. Although I'm not sure what could be wrong
2018-10-21T09:36:05 < con3> https://pastebin.com/6jZufpFS
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2018-10-21T10:35:36 < BrainDamage> new pick n place https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJSUnIIUIAAP-jW.png:large
2018-10-21T10:47:21 < antto> hahaah
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2018-10-21T11:52:28 < Steffanx> Hm
2018-10-21T11:52:39 < Steffanx> Do you know?
2018-10-21T12:23:51 < Steffanx> Aaand..?
2018-10-21T12:27:14 < Steffanx> Gotta finish your stories mate
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2018-10-21T12:31:42 < Sadale> BrainDamage, wow. Where did you find this pic? It looks awesome
2018-10-21T12:32:13 < antto> on twitt0r it seems
2018-10-21T12:32:20 < Sadale> I know. But twitter is huge.
2018-10-21T12:32:47 < antto> like any junkyard
2018-10-21T12:32:48 < Sadale> ah. There's a watermark on the bottom-left
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2018-10-21T12:59:35 < cjbaird> Hmm, seems that the artist deleted their Pixiv account that had a few more works like that.
2018-10-21T13:02:38 < cjbaird> https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/2718456 .. https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/2716234 .. https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/2579652 .. 
2018-10-21T13:11:06 < Steffanx> U-235
2018-10-21T13:12:26 < catphish> i can't find this spur gear anywhere :( http://www.betztechnik.ca/uploads/2/5/6/7/25674051/s148937386964792398_p34_i39_w2560.jpeg
2018-10-21T13:13:00 < catphish> spent hours looking for it, it's 2.5mm pitch, 16 tooth, 5mm bore
2018-10-21T13:13:11 < Steffanx> Isnt it custom made?
2018-10-21T13:14:05 < catphish> i don't know
2018-10-21T13:14:30 < catphish> could be :(
2018-10-21T13:14:49 < catphish> i didn't think people machined their own brass gears
2018-10-21T13:29:00 < Steffanx> What movie/video did you quote this time crt?
2018-10-21T13:33:56 < Steffanx> i dont see ads on youtube
2018-10-21T13:35:33 < Steffanx> You must be the only person on the internet not using some adblocker, crt
2018-10-21T13:35:40 < Steffanx> willingly.
2018-10-21T13:36:24 < Steffanx> i use ublock origin
2018-10-21T13:36:28 < Steffanx> it works
2018-10-21T13:45:33 < catphish> Steffanx: figured it out, 2.5mm pitch isn't "mod2.5", it's "mod .8", found lots now!
2018-10-21T13:46:01 < catphish> the way gear pitch is measured it weird, i have no idea why they don't just give the tooth spacing
2018-10-21T13:46:35 < catphish> instead it's given as the ratio between the diameter of the middle of the teeth and the number of teeth
2018-10-21T13:48:13 < cjbaird> For Men .. https://i.imgur.com/S3j56Ty.jpg
2018-10-21T13:50:34 < BrainDamage> do you feel emasculated if the shaving soap is in tube format instead of hard puck?
2018-10-21T13:50:40 < catphish> lol
2018-10-21T14:12:09 < catphish> this is the guy :) https://www.servocity.com/5mm-bore-32p-16t-shaft-mount-pinion-gears
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2018-10-21T15:32:09 < Sadale> apparently the documentation of kicad is a bit outdated
2018-10-21T15:33:28 < Steffanx> there is always #kickad
2018-10-21T15:33:37 < Steffanx> #kicad
2018-10-21T15:33:41 < Steffanx> or wahtever it is. ## or #
2018-10-21T15:34:10 < antto> #kitkad
2018-10-21T15:35:10 < Steffanx> welcome anton, how is your day?
2018-10-21T15:35:22 < antto> day is not mine
2018-10-21T15:35:32 < Steffanx> welcome anton, how is your autism.
2018-10-21T15:36:08 < antto> bett0r than yours
2018-10-21T15:36:09 < antto> ;P~
2018-10-21T15:36:58 < Steffanx> im not convinved.
2018-10-21T15:37:05 < Steffanx> damnit. Convinced.
2018-10-21T15:37:35 < antto> how is your dyslexia, oh wait
2018-10-21T15:37:40  * antto runs
2018-10-21T15:38:01 < Steffanx> It's not dyslexia. its just bad typing.
2018-10-21T15:38:37 < antto> <excuses.txt>
2018-10-21T15:38:50 < Steffanx> <ignorelist.txt> ?
2018-10-21T15:39:03 < antto> <oh_noes.gif>
2018-10-21T15:40:06 < Amun_Ra> my excuses.txt got pretty big in size lately… :/
2018-10-21T15:48:51 < Steffanx> Dog ate homework kinda of excuses Amun_Ra ?
2018-10-21T17:00:00 -!- tctw__ is now known as tctw
2018-10-21T17:00:14 < tctw> Amun_Ra, cat excuses.txt
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2018-10-21T17:08:29 < catphish> but kicad is infallible
2018-10-21T17:17:42 < antto> hm, stm32 aren't the cheapest armz
2018-10-21T17:18:35 < antto> according to mau5r
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2018-10-21T17:37:30 < catphish> i never imagined for a moment they would be, though they are pretty cheap
2018-10-21T17:38:02 < Steffanx> still cheaper than AVRs antto
2018-10-21T17:38:25 < antto> how dafuq is that relevant
2018-10-21T17:38:27 < Steffanx> You can always  go for stm8
2018-10-21T17:38:43 < antto> i don't like SDCC much
2018-10-21T17:38:50 < Steffanx> Cosmic is free-ish too.
2018-10-21T17:39:03 < antto> does it have C++17?
2018-10-21T17:39:15 < Steffanx> unlikely.
2018-10-21T17:39:20 < antto> MEH
2018-10-21T17:39:27 < Steffanx> does AVR-GCC do c++17?
2018-10-21T17:39:44 < antto> since AGES ;P~
2018-10-21T17:39:48 < Steffanx> (real question.. because back in the days AVR-GCC was old/outdated as fuck)
2018-10-21T17:40:20 < antto> well, no stl and std:: but the language itself is there
2018-10-21T17:40:41 < antto> u can haz all templatez and constexpr and what not
2018-10-21T17:41:55 < antto> the only interesting thing i read about stm8 is that it can run code from RAM
2018-10-21T17:41:58 < antto> but.. so what
2018-10-21T17:42:06 < Steffanx> winavr and atmel studio 4. the memories.
2018-10-21T17:45:38 < antto> well, just like you can build gcc for arm cortex, you can build it for avr
2018-10-21T17:45:58 < antto> then you also build avrlibc and that's enough
2018-10-21T17:46:57 < Steffanx> Im pretty sure that wasnt really the way to go back then. 6-8 years ago (maybe even a bit more)
2018-10-21T17:48:12 < antto> the first compiler i built was for xtensa a few years ago
2018-10-21T17:48:17 < antto> i had no idea what i was doing
2018-10-21T17:48:55 < antto> you just need a working tutorial or script
2018-10-21T17:49:24 < antto> i made a huge mess with the xtensa crap, like 5 fails if not more, plus tons of waiting
2018-10-21T17:50:25 < antto> for avr, i just stole some semi-working script and modified it a bit
2018-10-21T18:03:11 < Laurenceb124> whyyyy
2018-10-21T18:03:28 < Laurenceb124> I mean like arm officially support gcc for arm now
2018-10-21T18:04:55 < antto> so what
2018-10-21T18:05:29 < Laurenceb124> so Jordan Peterson live is coming to the UK
2018-10-21T18:06:10 < antto> our prime minister was at yer queen
2018-10-21T18:06:16 < antto> he shook her old hand
2018-10-21T18:07:28 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/d7SFJB4T
2018-10-21T18:08:21 < BrainDamage> as opposed to jordan peterson dead?
2018-10-21T18:09:15 < Laurenceb124> we can only wish
2018-10-21T18:09:51 < Steffanx> i always thought Laurenceb124 loved Peterson, what changed?
2018-10-21T18:10:10 < Laurenceb124> Peterstien
2018-10-21T18:10:29 < Steffanx> But really, what changed it Laurenceb124 ?
2018-10-21T18:10:49 < Laurenceb124> he is very lame and never develops his points
2018-10-21T18:11:01 < Laurenceb124> also he is clearly in it only for money
2018-10-21T18:11:38 < Steffanx> So he didnt change, its just you who changed. :P
2018-10-21T18:11:42 < Laurenceb124> heh
2018-10-21T18:11:50 < Steffanx> Change is baad.
2018-10-21T18:12:04 < Laurenceb124> I was only ever an ironic fan for the lulz
2018-10-21T18:12:59 < Steffanx> So now you are just an ironic hater for the lulz. :P
2018-10-21T18:18:57 -!- branjb [~pseudosin@c-73-24-157-174.hsd1.az.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-21T18:19:56 < Steffanx> Hows the shaker project Laurenceb124 ? You've not told us much about it lately.
2018-10-21T18:19:58 < Steffanx> Whats going on.
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2018-10-21T19:43:50 < kakimir> hello innovation
2018-10-21T19:47:10 < antto> o hai kakimir
2018-10-21T19:48:09 < catphish> Cracki: thanks for all your help last night, i've now made all my parts water-jettable, though i'm using they'll be able to laser it cheaper https://imgur.com/a/Z8Cv8pq
2018-10-21T19:49:08 < kakimir> fart war was intence
2018-10-21T19:49:51 < catphish> i do have taps, but it doesnt matter yet, all my holes are clearance
2018-10-21T19:50:41 < catphish> oh, apart from the captive nuts, but i see no way to avoid those, since the holes are in the wrong axis
2018-10-21T19:50:42 < antto> пърдимир
2018-10-21T19:50:59 < Steffanx> What antto said.
2018-10-21T19:51:24 < catphish> who is пърдимир
2018-10-21T19:51:31 < Steffanx> kakimir
2018-10-21T19:52:27 < catphish> i think i only have one more part to design for now - the mena8 mounting plate that interlocks with the rack part
2018-10-21T19:52:32 < catphish> *nema
2018-10-21T19:55:13 < con3> Fuck cube
2018-10-21T20:01:38 < con3> same old same old
2018-10-21T20:02:45 < con3> Don't really know whats going on with that anymore, its in motion but been weird the last while
2018-10-21T20:06:09 < con3> Curious do you guys use HAL for the sdio or just write it from scratch?
2018-10-21T20:10:18 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-21T20:12:24 < con3> https://media.giphy.com/media/kaq6GnxDlJaBq/giphy.gif
2018-10-21T20:12:59 < Amun_Ra> I usually write from scratch but not for hal and for libopencm3
2018-10-21T20:13:37 < con3> Cause  Hal seems to be a mess
2018-10-21T20:13:45 < Amun_Ra> well, it is one
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2018-10-21T20:21:31 < Thorn> tetris championship https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhuphZ0P9B8
2018-10-21T20:22:40 < con3> How hard would it be to write an sd card driver from scratch? Like impossible?
2018-10-21T20:23:07 < aandrew> not really
2018-10-21T20:23:19 < aandrew> simple SD is really just SPI with a command interface over it
2018-10-21T20:23:34 < aandrew> lots of people have done it. the question is why would you want to do it yoursef?
2018-10-21T20:23:53 < aandrew> if it's for the experience or htere is some specific reason then sure, but if you haven't got a really good reason... 
2018-10-21T20:24:44 < con3> mainly experience, but also cause I'm tired of how broken HAL's driver is
2018-10-21T20:25:15 < mawk> drivers aren't generally hard to write
2018-10-21T20:25:17 < mawk> just fastidious
2018-10-21T20:25:36 < emeb> how exactly is HAL SD code broken? Does it actually fail, or do you just not like the look of the code?
2018-10-21T20:26:47 < con3> emeb: I've found quite a few issues, things like hard coded statements which cause read and writes to fail, I'm currently struggling with the dma implementation of hal
2018-10-21T20:26:54 < aandrew> I don't much care for HAL's style, but haven't actually run across a terrible bug in it to date
2018-10-21T20:27:03 < con3> but its entirely possible that im an idiot
2018-10-21T20:27:05 < emeb> aandrew: same here. 
2018-10-21T20:27:16 < emeb> I've used it in several shipping products with no serious issues.
2018-10-21T20:27:54 < aandrew> a lot of HAL relies on you writing functions that replace weakly defined ones and get called back from the driver
2018-10-21T20:28:09 < aandrew> that said, I ahve not used SD at all
2018-10-21T20:28:19 < con3> I have some old code, let me dig out some of the errors
2018-10-21T20:29:56 < con3> here's one that pissed me off, not major but annnoying to dig out, they hard coded the Readstatus to 0 and then check whether it isn't 0:https://pastebin.com/DCR451Rv
2018-10-21T20:30:25 < Thorn> https://www.twitch.tv/nubbinsgoody
2018-10-21T20:31:27 < con3> they set it to 1 in a callback that's never called
2018-10-21T20:31:42 < emeb> seems sloppy
2018-10-21T20:32:04 < con3> so even if the write or read passes, it always fails as that variable never got changed
2018-10-21T20:32:17 < con3> setting it to 1 if the write passes, completely solved the issue
2018-10-21T20:32:55 < con3> the sdcard driver was one of the most broken things I've found, posted on the forum and it seems to be fixed now, but adding DMA seems to have the same issue
2018-10-21T20:34:02 < emeb> which family was this for? 
2018-10-21T20:34:09 < con3> F7
2018-10-21T20:34:28 < emeb> Interesting. That's the one I've been using.
2018-10-21T20:34:41 < con3> yeah, i posted the issue last year
2018-10-21T20:35:06 < con3> I dont know if you've gotten a multi block write going with dma? single block write works, multi block fails. fuck knows why
2018-10-21T20:36:54 < con3> emeb using a nucleo?
2018-10-21T20:42:40 < emeb> con3: no this is a fully custom board
2018-10-21T20:42:56 < con3> ah nice, which chip?
2018-10-21T20:43:08 < emeb> and I'm not using DMA - my application doesn't need high performance during file access so I keep it simple.
2018-10-21T20:43:21 < emeb> two systems - F722 and F746
2018-10-21T20:43:32 < con3> F722 here as well
2018-10-21T20:43:38 < con3> got usb going on them?
2018-10-21T20:43:50 < emeb> No, not needed for this app
2018-10-21T20:44:23 < emeb> Just a couple SPI channels, some I2S (SAI) and the SDIO.
2018-10-21T20:44:53 < con3> nice, haven't fooled with I2S yet,whats the application if you don't mind me askin?
2018-10-21T20:45:15 < emeb> http://synthtech.com/eurorack/E352/
2018-10-21T20:47:54 < con3> interesting!
2018-10-21T20:49:49 < emeb> Main thing I saw w/ SDIO was that it seems pretty sensitive to the ratio of the SDIO clock vs system clock.
2018-10-21T20:50:33 < emeb> Had to do a bit of fooling around with the clock dividers to make it work reliably, and if I tweaked the system clock freq then I'd have to go back and re-tweak the SD clock.
2018-10-21T20:51:23 < con3> I didn't have issues with that, but it took a while to plough through the hal code and fix it. once that was done I could just do 48 MHZ 4 bit sdio with no problem.
2018-10-21T21:00:30 < con3> time to debug
2018-10-21T21:01:46  * con3 cries
2018-10-21T21:04:45 < Steffanx> awh
2018-10-21T21:07:29  * emeb hands con3 a stroopwafel
2018-10-21T21:26:54  * con3 eats stroopwafel and weeps
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2018-10-21T21:36:37 < con3> wtf is every file written in capitals :|
2018-10-21T21:38:40 < con3> its not even writing the data as capitals just the file name. fun 
2018-10-21T21:39:13 < Steffanx> Fat?
2018-10-21T21:39:24 < con3> yep
2018-10-21T21:46:32 < kakimir> drugs mentioned
2018-10-21T21:51:50 < con3> ok looks like i can do multiblock writes now
2018-10-21T21:52:01 < con3> just the stupid capitals in the file name
2018-10-21T21:55:39 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-21T21:56:59  * con3 snorts coke to get into the mindset of whoever wrote this
2018-10-21T21:59:03 < Thorn> do you think the tone is too harsh https://github.com/facebook/create-react-app/issues/5513
2018-10-21T22:00:17 < con3> Thorn: skimmed it, but seems fine to me
2018-10-21T22:01:21 < Steffanx> You should ask ##stm32..
2018-10-21T22:01:24 < Steffanx> but looks fine to me
2018-10-21T22:01:36 < Steffanx> you even suggest some alternative.
2018-10-21T22:04:05 < con3> "You should ask ##stm32.." https://media.giphy.com/media/kaq6GnxDlJaBq/giphy.gif
2018-10-21T22:04:46 < kakimir> LPC is an alternative
2018-10-21T22:07:19 < Thorn> ok thx
2018-10-21T22:07:31 < Steffanx> sorry, con3. "Shouildnt" :P
2018-10-21T22:08:23 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/l5kkzUz are these stroopwaffels?
2018-10-21T22:08:55 < Steffanx> looks like a stroopwafel yes
2018-10-21T22:12:12 < aandrew> I had no idea they were so small
2018-10-21T22:12:18 < aandrew> And heavy 
2018-10-21T22:12:50 < Steffanx> Heavy as in  .. in your stomage or ?
2018-10-21T22:13:08 < Steffanx> or heavy in weight.
2018-10-21T22:14:29 < aandrew> Heavy as in weight. That little package fits in my hand and is like a half pound (250g)
2018-10-21T22:14:36 < aandrew> They’re ... dense
2018-10-21T22:15:06 < kakimir> Packed diabetes
2018-10-21T22:15:59 < kakimir> I need to send you reindeer Steffanx 
2018-10-21T22:17:04 < Amun_Ra> palm oil… ;/
2018-10-21T22:23:35 < Steffanx> no you dont kakimir
2018-10-21T22:25:59 < Steffanx> after you fart contest stories i can no longer trust you.
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2018-10-21T22:35:22 < mawk> I made a magnificient fix to the copper pad I scraped off: https://pix.watch/AXKAx_/bhUvvG.jpeg
2018-10-21T22:38:32 < aandrew> That’s really big wire for a fix like that 
2018-10-21T22:38:38 < aandrew> No 30AWG?
2018-10-21T22:39:12 < mawk> it's the thinnest wire I found at the store
2018-10-21T22:39:18 < mawk> else they had magnet wire, but out of stock
2018-10-21T22:39:45 < zyp> wire looks fine, I don't see the problem
2018-10-21T22:39:49 < zyp> if it works, it works
2018-10-21T22:40:08 < aandrew> Oh for sure but the bigger wire makes the repair harder. That was the point of the comment 
2018-10-21T22:40:12 < zyp> I still like using scrap cat5 for rework
2018-10-21T22:40:28 < aandrew> I haven’t used magnet wire in years, I find the scraping of the enamel to be tedious
2018-10-21T22:40:36 < aandrew> Have to order a solder pot for that
2018-10-21T22:40:50 < aandrew> zyp: yep I have shitloads of scrap cat5 for the exact same reason
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2018-10-21T22:46:21 < Steffanx> what day?
2018-10-21T22:52:08 < mawk> doesn't the enamel burn off with solder aandrew ?
2018-10-21T22:59:33 < aandrew> mawk: well like I mentioned I haven't used it in ages but I remember it not being easy to take off with an iron
2018-10-21T22:59:46 < aandrew> you ahd to scrape with a knife or burn off with a lighter and then still scrape off
2018-10-21T23:01:43 < mawk> with a lighter it didn't work for me
2018-10-21T23:01:47 < mawk> sandpaper worked
2018-10-21T23:01:53 < mawk> but I didn't try solder
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2018-10-21T23:08:17 < zyp> I also don't care much for enamelled wire
2018-10-21T23:13:52 < englishman> like 4y ago I bought around 10km of 30awg in various colours I sure hope I never run out
2018-10-21T23:14:03 < mawk> lol
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2018-10-21T23:15:39 < antto> u know u gon run out of one or two of the colors fastur than u think
2018-10-21T23:17:44 < Thorn> https://news.sky.com/story/man-72-stoned-to-death-by-monkeys-in-india-11531791
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2018-10-21T23:25:17 < aandrew> hm nice little motor from this old food processor
2018-10-21T23:25:38 < aandrew> it's brushed though
2018-10-21T23:25:50 < Thorn> is there any food memory
2018-10-21T23:26:26 < aandrew> there's a little crusty shit on the top surface of the planetary gearbox but the rest is clean
2018-10-21T23:26:44 < aandrew> this little thing worked well for 10y or so, still works well but a replacemnt blade is $150 which is hilarious
2018-10-21T23:42:13 < Steffanx> Can someone cheer up crt a bit? kakimir?
2018-10-21T23:56:54 < Steffanx> Dead.
--- Day changed Mon Oct 22 2018
2018-10-22T00:01:16 < benishor> but does he djent?
2018-10-22T00:15:59 < kakimir> I don't have inductors Steffanx 
2018-10-22T00:16:16 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-l-rcS0Awc kakimusics
2018-10-22T00:16:32 < Steffanx> Thats no djent.
2018-10-22T00:16:43 < Steffanx> TIL: Djent.
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2018-10-22T00:28:46 < kakimir> monday
2018-10-22T00:29:04 < englishman> https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/monitors/gaming/49--chg90-qled-gaming-monitor-lc49hg90dmnxza/
2018-10-22T00:29:09 < englishman> $1k monitor, 1080p
2018-10-22T00:29:12 < englishman> gamers are funny
2018-10-22T00:30:24 < englishman> tisnt
2018-10-22T00:30:36 < kakimir> 1080p is not a problem
2018-10-22T00:30:50 < kakimir> but what framerate is?
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2018-10-22T00:40:10 < catphish> that is a nice screen, and it's not really fair to call it 1080p, it's twice that big, 3840 X 1080
2018-10-22T00:41:07 < catphish> 144Hz refresh rate
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2018-10-22T02:17:27 < aandrew> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJSUnIIUIAAP-jW.png:large (from another chan)
2018-10-22T02:17:37 < aandrew> I like the attention to detail, like the tented vias
2018-10-22T02:21:17 < oz4ga> catphish: only 1080 vertical? Many IDEs could benefit from more vertical pixels
2018-10-22T02:29:10 < oz4ga> it's insane
2018-10-22T02:31:04 < oz4ga> impressive
2018-10-22T02:34:10 < jadew> I do regular backup on DVDs
2018-10-22T02:34:43 < jadew> I like the fact that they can't be erased
2018-10-22T02:36:03 < jadew> I recently destroyed some 15 years old CDs and they still seemed to work perfectly
2018-10-22T02:36:25 < oz4ga> a fake .edu email addy is 1$ @ebay. -> unlimited google drive. 1$ pr zeta byte is quite cost effective, but of cause there is a risk ;)
2018-10-22T02:37:02 < jadew> I only store sensitive stuff on DVDs, so I wouldn't give it to google
2018-10-22T02:37:25 < jadew> everything else goes on HDDs
2018-10-22T02:37:49 < jadew> isn't gmail already unlimited?
2018-10-22T02:37:54 < jadew> does it have a limit?
2018-10-22T02:39:16 < catphish> oz4ga: i use 1440x3840 for work :)
2018-10-22T02:40:27 < jadew> you're right, I have 15 Gb too
2018-10-22T02:40:34 < jadew> only used up 1.6, so I'm good
2018-10-22T02:43:37 < jadew> new address?
2018-10-22T02:44:23 < jadew> one is opensource, the other is not
2018-10-22T02:44:43 < jadew> one uses JS for its interface (IIRC), the other is probably native
2018-10-22T02:45:59 < jadew> I have lots of emails too and thunderbird is struggling for me as well
2018-10-22T02:46:05 < jadew> compressing helps a bit
2018-10-22T02:48:07 < aandrew> Cracki: that would be awesome
2018-10-22T02:48:26 < aandrew> something like windirstat but for imap
2018-10-22T02:49:25 < Thorn> crap the 16 year old won
2018-10-22T02:50:31 < Thorn> CTWC
2018-10-22T02:50:42 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhuphZ0P9B8
2018-10-22T02:52:30 < catphish> yay, all done i hope https://imgur.com/a/tBvllEx
2018-10-22T02:52:46 < catphish> just gotta wait for some parts to arrive :)
2018-10-22T02:53:25 < catphish> Cracki: it is freecad, but only for the assembly check, all the parts are done with openscad
2018-10-22T02:53:47 < catphish> and yes, mgn9 rails
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2018-10-22T02:54:28 < catphish> it attaches to this guy i already built https://imgur.com/a/18M826w
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2018-10-22T02:54:59 < catphish> it seems to work well for a beginner at least :)
2018-10-22T02:55:12 < catphish> (the alu extrusions)
2018-10-22T02:55:37 < aandrew> man
2018-10-22T02:55:58 < aandrew> going from 20mil pullback to 12mil pullback makes a WORLD of difference on the ground plane
2018-10-22T02:56:34 < catphish> i redesigned every part to be manufacturable with laser or waterjet
2018-10-22T02:56:45 < catphish> i'm learning way too much at once right now
2018-10-22T02:58:22 < catphish> aandrew: i have no idea what that means :)
2018-10-22T02:59:20 < aandrew> catphish: oh? why did you settle on those two
2018-10-22T03:00:26 < catphish> aandrew: well it would work with CNC / router too, or filament 3d print :)
2018-10-22T03:00:46 < catphish> the idea is to make it cheap to make what whatever process is available
2018-10-22T03:00:52 < catphish> *with
2018-10-22T03:03:54 < catphish> i started trying to build an openpnp device, but ran into a few (not very serious) issues, a combination of BOMs having too many choices, things being poorly explained, some stuff being difficult to create without fancy CNC, so i decided to embark upon a "newbie friendly openpnp" using only easily available parts and parts that are easy to 3d print or machine by any process, and also a clear BOM and instructions
2018-10-22T03:04:08 < catphish> i have no idea yet if i will succeed, but if i do, i hope it will help other newcomers
2018-10-22T03:04:50 < catphish> motly based on an existing excellent design
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2018-10-22T04:07:26 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_saLI-LH-Vp9cxB3FNJoYXZXRM93UBuf <-- several hours of your life wasted
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2018-10-22T05:58:47 < dongs>  < BrainDamage> new pick n place https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJSUnIIUIAAP-jW.png:large
2018-10-22T05:58:50 < dongs> old as fuck
2018-10-22T06:03:52 < cjbaird> Pulling the trigger on a QRP Labs QCX rig..
2018-10-22T06:04:42 < cjbaird> http://qrp-labs.com/images/qcx/0/front.jpg
2018-10-22T06:04:58 < dongs> not enough dip parts
2018-10-22T06:07:42 < cjbaird> Hams would take the piss on there only being one toroid to wind
2018-10-22T06:07:56 < dongs> you hae to wind that shit yourself
2018-10-22T06:08:00 < dongs> does it have an arduno in it
2018-10-22T06:08:26 < dongs> PCB Rev 1/2 Manual JAPANESE 3-parts: part-1 part-2 part-3 translation of sections 1-4, contributed by Shig JA1XRQ (THANKS!) See Shig's website for single doc (revision 1.08, 06-Nov-2017)
2018-10-22T06:08:30 < dongs> wat
2018-10-22T06:08:30 < dongs> oh, transaltion
2018-10-22T06:08:36 < dongs> i thought it was liek OMG JAPANESE CAPACITORS
2018-10-22T06:09:18 < cjbaird> Wait, two toroids. True swag then.
2018-10-22T06:09:21 < englishman> audiophile grade
2018-10-22T06:09:34 < dongs> https://qrp-labs.com/images/qcx/QCX_CW_Transceiver_ja108_1.pdf englishman this is how you should make your pick and placing
2018-10-22T06:10:03 < englishman> in chicken scratch code?
2018-10-22T06:10:17 < cjbaird> something atmel (328p?), but custom.
2018-10-22T06:11:24 < englishman> custom what
2018-10-22T06:12:03 < dongs> as in not retarduino
2018-10-22T06:12:30 < englishman> one page per BOM line with parts highlighted
2018-10-22T06:12:39 < englishman> should i send you that instead of XY data?
2018-10-22T06:15:49 < cjbaird> Proprietary firmware on the QCX, but could be a project to do a GnuCX and make the designer pop a blood vessel. Local CW'ing mate has suggested the idea too (the morse paddle keyer is a bit too basic for him..)
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2018-10-22T06:39:14 < upgrdman> anyone know why a watchdog ic would have a big thermal pad? http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps3851-q1.pdf ... i mean wtf, i hope a watchdog ic is not dissipating much power.
2018-10-22T06:42:05 < dongs> its just a standard package
2018-10-22T06:42:22 < dongs> it draws 10uA
2018-10-22T06:42:27 < dongs> with like 19uA max
2018-10-22T06:42:30 < upgrdman> k
2018-10-22T06:43:44 < dongs> Connect the thermal pad to a large-area ground plane. The thermal pad is internally connected to GND.
2018-10-22T06:43:47 < dongs> lol
2018-10-22T06:44:10 < upgrdman> ya
2018-10-22T06:44:25 < upgrdman> that's what triggered me. they tell you to use a "large-area"
2018-10-22T06:44:46 < dongs> pretty sure thats also a copy paste from whatever other datasheet where it matters
2018-10-22T06:44:58 < dongs> is it maybe to reduce resistance to gnd since its ' voltage ' supervisor?
2018-10-22T06:45:17 < upgrdman> k. im not using this ic, it just came up in a search and i lolwut'd
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2018-10-22T09:27:22 < dongs> wat
2018-10-22T09:27:33 < dongs> is that a 'cpacitor kit' with like 10 caps in it
2018-10-22T09:27:34 < dongs> for $35
2018-10-22T09:27:43 < dongs> ah no, it has bunch
2018-10-22T09:27:47 < dongs> well, thats comparable to china capacitor books
2018-10-22T09:28:07 < dongs> feerit bead
2018-10-22T09:28:35 < dongs> the important question is it affected by tariffs
2018-10-22T09:29:34 < dongs> last day inovating in taiwan
2018-10-22T09:29:37 < dongs> getting the fuck out tomorrow
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2018-10-22T09:36:13 < dongs> brent
2018-10-22T09:36:16 < dongs> the innovator
2018-10-22T09:36:28 < dongs> he has over 50 patents
2018-10-22T09:36:33 < dongs> for amazing things lke "medical device"
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2018-10-22T13:25:03 < cjbaird> is steffan airtight
2018-10-22T13:38:10 < Steffanx> Do you know?
2018-10-22T13:40:48 < qyx> littlefuse
2018-10-22T13:53:39 < qyx> stolen internetz
2018-10-22T14:15:34 < Steffanx> How is the day anton?
2018-10-22T14:15:54 < Steffanx> Are you happy?
2018-10-22T14:16:21 < Steffanx> I dont need one.
2018-10-22T14:16:25 < Steffanx> Or zero.
2018-10-22T14:17:12 < Steffanx> "Ok" is pretty non-binary to me
2018-10-22T14:18:31 < cjbaird> I'm happy because I bought a radio kit today. I'm sad because I had to debase myself to using PayPal.
2018-10-22T14:19:43 < cjbaird> But then I'll be happy building a kit. After I'll be sad again because as an F-call, I'm only licenced to use commercially-produced radios..
2018-10-22T14:20:30 < cjbaird> And my real email address and mobile phone number. :/
2018-10-22T14:22:00 < karlp> don't think it's that sort of radio
2018-10-22T14:22:32 < cjbaird> No, it's not. A CW/Morse transceiver, bandwidth of 200 Hz.. kinda short for vox.
2018-10-22T14:24:45 < cjbaird> There's a whole heap of assessable technical theory for the Advanced Licence test to do with verifying a radio isn't crap (power output, etc.) ..that I'll get to try while building and adjusting the kit.
2018-10-22T14:25:55 < BrainDamage> strap it to a balooon with a tethered antenna and spew noise in the surrounding
2018-10-22T14:26:04 < cjbaird> The same place also sells QRP-level dummy loads w/ RF power testpoints.. got one of those as well.
2018-10-22T14:26:45 < cjbaird> BrainDamage: that, and streaming live amateur tv video of me only wearing a pair of shorts.
2018-10-22T14:27:38 < BrainDamage> make sure to upload on youtube the live stream of the ham channels commentaries
2018-10-22T14:27:39 < cjbaird> Wanna try some of the FPGA video work into the ATV thing too.
2018-10-22T14:48:38 < oz4ga> cjbaird: which radio kit dit you get?
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2018-10-22T15:26:08 < c10ud> q
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2018-10-22T15:32:26 < Steffanx> qq
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2018-10-22T15:39:16 < zyp> qyx, you were asking about the boxed in ventilation stuff the other day, I just looked through some older pics and found one from before they were boxed in: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/LqgBB.jpg
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2018-10-22T16:09:37 < cjbaird> oz4ga: TheQRP-Labs QCX.
2018-10-22T16:10:08 < cjbaird> (and the uBITX a few days ago..)
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2018-10-22T16:27:12 < oz4ga> arduini radios 
2018-10-22T16:28:12 < cjbaird> Going to try a Nucelo32 in it..
2018-10-22T16:29:46 < oz4ga> should be doable
2018-10-22T16:30:37 < cjbaird> Alreayd been done.. 
2018-10-22T16:30:53 < oz4ga> probably
2018-10-22T16:31:05 < oz4ga> stil fun to grow your own
2018-10-22T16:31:39 < cjbaird> atm checking if there's an msp430 with a Nano footprint.. I have a bit more radio-related code written for the '430
2018-10-22T16:32:19 < cjbaird> Olimex have them with the Arduino Uno footprint, and already get a few.
2018-10-22T16:33:47 < oz4ga> I like Olimex. I have an Olimexino and a H103 both F103RB's
2018-10-22T16:34:44 < cjbaird> Same. But this is just fucking ugly though: https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/MSP430/MSP430-T5510/open-source-hardware
2018-10-22T16:35:41 < cjbaird> Scratch that, not Nano-compatible.
2018-10-22T16:37:46 < oz4ga> fscking ugly ++
2018-10-22T16:38:33 < aandrew> heh
2018-10-22T16:38:38 < aandrew> that's not a bad form factor actually
2018-10-22T16:38:49 < aandrew> combines the two most used breadboard compatible formats
2018-10-22T16:40:52 < kakimir> shipment from fortune horse
2018-10-22T16:40:56 < cjbaird> A DIP40 MSP430? fapfapfap .. http://microcontrollershop.com/Images/msp430-g2744.jpg
2018-10-22T16:41:15 < kakimir> it always needs some guesswork to figure out which chinese company is sending me stuff
2018-10-22T16:41:25 < BrainDamage> 404 not found
2018-10-22T16:41:30 < kakimir> as they have like 3 different names
2018-10-22T16:42:43 < kakimir> dingchingbing
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2018-10-22T16:44:21 < oz4ga> lang tung ting?
2018-10-22T16:45:22 < oz4ga> danish for "long heavy thing"
2018-10-22T16:46:54 < zyp> same in norwegian
2018-10-22T16:48:33 < oz4ga> det ved du og jeg
2018-10-22T16:52:02 < karlp> ekki bara ykkur
2018-10-22T16:55:21 < cjbaird> boolaroo wangi wangi parramatta
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2018-10-22T16:58:36 < cjbaird> Boo. The msp430g2744 doesn't do the 68hc11 thing of giving the gpio pins an alternate function of being external address and data busses.
2018-10-22T16:58:40 < aandrew> hahaha
2018-10-22T16:58:44 < aandrew> good one dongs: https://imgur.com/a/03HsUxR
2018-10-22T17:01:09 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDFbQJkvhzM kakimusics
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2018-10-22T17:18:34 < dongs> aandrew: lol
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2018-10-22T17:29:37 < karlp> heh, had to actualyl install ftp today
2018-10-22T17:32:27 < englishman> aandrew: loll
2018-10-22T17:40:06 < karlp> fucking binary mode
2018-10-22T17:40:10 < karlp> who invented ftp bullshit
2018-10-22T17:40:30 < BrainDamage> http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FtpMustDie
2018-10-22T17:40:31 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/NRoje4X that's right, right? EN=1, 3.3V switched gets power
2018-10-22T17:40:50 < englishman> Abhay Bhushan, in 1971
2018-10-22T17:41:12 < englishman> he also wrote TCP/IP (ten years later)
2018-10-22T17:42:59 < BrainDamage> aandrew: yes, altho I don't understand why 2 transistors
2018-10-22T17:43:24 < aandrew> high side switch
2018-10-22T17:44:11 < aandrew> if you used only the N fet you can't turn it on because the moment 3V3_SW goes high the fet will turn off
2018-10-22T17:44:21 < BrainDamage> no, why not just use the P
2018-10-22T17:44:23 < aandrew> and the EN signal is active high not low, so I need to use the N fet as an inverter to the P fet
2018-10-22T17:44:27 < aandrew> I can't change the EN signal
2018-10-22T17:44:27 < BrainDamage> ah
2018-10-22T17:45:31 < BrainDamage> you could even just build an inverter if you wanted
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2018-10-22T17:45:56 < aandrew> that's pretty much exactly what I did
2018-10-22T17:46:03 < BrainDamage> no I mean a cmos one
2018-10-22T17:46:13 < BrainDamage> without static dissipation
2018-10-22T17:46:25 < aandrew> oh I see
2018-10-22T17:47:10 < aandrew> man I'm behind on this layout
2018-10-22T17:47:17 < aandrew> gotta get my ass in gear
2018-10-22T17:49:22 < qyx> increase the R to 1M and call the static dissipation near zero
2018-10-22T17:49:23 < qyx> and yolo
2018-10-22T17:49:44 < englishman> probably plenty of cmos power switches of that size and cost
2018-10-22T17:49:49 < englishman> depending on current
2018-10-22T17:49:50 < aandrew> I like to need a bit of current draw so it doesn't switch on noise
2018-10-22T17:50:06 < aandrew> englishman: sure, but I have these NTZD3155s for a lot of other projects
2018-10-22T17:50:08 < aandrew> just using what I've got
2018-10-22T17:50:08 < englishman> then put BJT!
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2018-10-22T19:44:08 < benishor> ohai guys
2018-10-22T19:44:18 < benishor> I just got a stm32f746g discovery board
2018-10-22T19:44:28 < karlp> congratulations
2018-10-22T19:44:31 < benishor> plugged in an usb cable and all I get is a red led flashing
2018-10-22T19:44:40 < benishor> isn't there a demo app I should be seeing?
2018-10-22T19:44:48 < benishor> thanks karlp
2018-10-22T19:45:44 < benishor> nevermind, I just saw the power jumper
2018-10-22T19:45:48 < benishor> it started \o/
2018-10-22T19:45:58 < benishor>  I didn't know I have to select the power source
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2018-10-22T19:49:36 < benishor> I get power now and some more leds lit up (one red, one green)
2018-10-22T19:49:45 < benishor> and the display has a white bg but that's about it
2018-10-22T19:56:18 < antto> that must be the Sir-Blink-Alot demo
2018-10-22T19:56:23 < karlp> what does the box say it should be doing?
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2018-10-22T20:34:32 < Steffanx> lol karlp time for some sleep or coffee :P
2018-10-22T20:34:37 < Steffanx> or perhaps some sugar
2018-10-22T20:38:48 < antto> moar RedBulls
2018-10-22T20:54:36 < Steffanx> that will doo.
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2018-10-22T21:16:14 < jadew> anyone interested in group buying capacitors?
2018-10-22T21:17:04 < catphish> i am not, but i'm intrigued, why? how many do you need?
2018-10-22T21:17:42 < jadew> it just occured to me... I don't need 15k 100nF caps (to get the same price I used to get 2 years ago for 100), but a group buy could reduce the price a lot on most carts
2018-10-22T21:18:10 < jadew> like... if everyone had their cap orders in one place cummulated over a week or two
2018-10-22T21:19:00 < jadew> we could then just buy in 15k quantities and reduce the price by 30-60%
2018-10-22T21:22:33 < catphish> i will likely never buy enough that the price is an issue
2018-10-22T21:22:57 < catphish> but i guess it makes sense if you need a lot, but not 15,000 :)
2018-10-22T21:23:25 < jadew> if you need 10-15 assortments of caps in low volume it ads up quick
2018-10-22T21:23:28 < jadew> *adds
2018-10-22T21:23:38 < catphish> that's true
2018-10-22T21:23:47 < catphish> i'd like to buy like 100 of every value :)
2018-10-22T21:24:10 < catphish> so i don't have to keep ordering 10 at a time of whatever i need for my current prototype
2018-10-22T21:24:11 < jadew> you can buy a catalog :P
2018-10-22T21:24:51 < jadew> I have one for resistors, but for caps I just bought one of those bags with 20 caps each (or less)
2018-10-22T21:25:20 < jadew> I buy components for prototypes anyway, even if I have them there
2018-10-22T21:25:33 < jadew> the catalog is just for testing different values
2018-10-22T21:25:42 < jadew> and real quick protos
2018-10-22T21:26:05 < catphish> i have loads of through hole for experimenting
2018-10-22T21:26:48 < ds2> won't shipping kill the price difference?
2018-10-22T21:26:51 < jadew> me too, but I don't use them as much
2018-10-22T21:27:46 < jadew> ds2, don't think so... if you order $100 of parts and you save 50% or more, you can get that delivered anywhere in the world and still save some money
2018-10-22T21:28:44 < ds2> hmm? a reel of 0603 0.1uF 25V X7R is like $30 isn't it?
2018-10-22T21:29:47 < ds2> where are you sourcing your parts?
2018-10-22T21:29:58 < ds2> there are increases but not that much
2018-10-22T21:30:23 < jadew> ds2, depends, I'm using mouser, farnell and tme
2018-10-22T21:30:29 < jadew> with TME being the cheapest
2018-10-22T21:31:44 < invzim> meh, printf and float again
2018-10-22T21:31:50 < invzim> anyone got the cheat-sheet?
2018-10-22T21:32:03 < jadew> the problem with this tactic would be that someone has to cut, package and reship
2018-10-22T21:32:51 < jadew> invzim, like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printf_format_string#/media/File:Printf.svg
2018-10-22T21:33:17 < invzim> nah, that it's not included in newlib, newlib-nano or needs specific flags or something
2018-10-22T21:33:27 < ds2> don't forget count!
2018-10-22T21:33:44 < jadew> ds2, yeah, it's a silly idea
2018-10-22T21:34:10 < ds2> I just some reel orders and it isn't a big enough diff to make that worthwhile yet
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2018-10-22T21:48:26 < catphish> i might buy a reel of 0603 0.1uF 25V if they're that cheap! i always need them and i will need a metric fuckton of them to test my pnp
2018-10-22T21:49:01 < ds2> dielectric makes a difference
2018-10-22T21:49:10 < ds2> Y5Rs are cheaper then X7R's, etc
2018-10-22T21:50:49 < englishman> who wants reels https://i.imgur.com/woHvpVm.jpg
2018-10-22T21:51:13 < englishman> remember i "dont keep inventory:"
2018-10-22T21:51:23 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: nikomo, CygniX
2018-10-22T21:51:23 < englishman> so this is all old crap im trying to go thru
2018-10-22T21:51:36 -!- Netsplit over, joins: nikomo
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2018-10-22T21:52:35 < englishman> no grey cats at the office
2018-10-22T21:53:08 < Steffanx> WELCOME crt
2018-10-22T21:59:05 < Steffanx> What brings you to ##stm32 crt
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2018-10-22T22:00:45 < Steffanx> and
2018-10-22T22:04:21 < benishor> sex. sex with cats
2018-10-22T22:04:35 < englishman> i bought a Peugeot
2018-10-22T22:06:46 < Steffanx> what kind of peugeot mr englishman
2018-10-22T22:06:52 < Steffanx> and why a frenchy?
2018-10-22T22:07:04 < englishman> they are simply the best pepper mills that exist i think
2018-10-22T22:08:13 < Steffanx> oh, not a car -_-
2018-10-22T22:08:35 < englishman> ewww no
2018-10-22T22:08:41 < Steffanx> yes that
2018-10-22T22:17:59 < catphish> is there any reason to buy any oscilloscope that isn't a rigol? they seem to demolish everything else on price
2018-10-22T22:19:54 < Steffanx> siglent is kinda in the same price range.
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2018-10-22T22:20:54 < jadew> rigol is a better brand tho
2018-10-22T22:21:01 < Steffanx> im not convinced.
2018-10-22T22:21:18 < Steffanx> You forgot to say "imho" :P
2018-10-22T22:21:25 < jadew> hehe
2018-10-22T22:21:30 < jadew> I'll tell you why
2018-10-22T22:21:52 < jadew> siglent is very chinese in the way it is run
2018-10-22T22:22:02 < catphish> i've been playing with a rohde and shwarz (hameg?) HMO1024 and it's awesome
2018-10-22T22:22:20 < jadew> while rigol is trying to be more like the big players and has "pride" for their own products, for a lack of a better word
2018-10-22T22:22:32 < jadew> siglent is copying rigol...
2018-10-22T22:22:37 < jadew> that says a lot
2018-10-22T22:23:02 < jadew> then there's the fact that siglent had forum shills on the eevblog forum
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2018-10-22T22:23:26 < catphish> i remember now, i was thinking of buying one a few months back, but there's so much choice i couldn't decide which features i need / don't need :(
2018-10-22T22:23:31 < Steffanx> wtf is forum shills?
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2018-10-22T22:23:55 < jadew> Steffanx, same person talking to itself from different accounts
2018-10-22T22:24:02 < jadew> praising siglent
2018-10-22T22:24:20 < jadew> apparently that happened multiple times
2018-10-22T22:24:27 < Steffanx> Anyway, im happy with my siglent. hacked well
2018-10-22T22:24:31 < englishman> cool
2018-10-22T22:24:34 < catphish> might just get the cheapest 50MHz 1GSa 2 channel rigol device, the price is crazy low
2018-10-22T22:24:54 < Steffanx> it sucks less than my riglol 1052something.
2018-10-22T22:25:01 < Steffanx> which is old, i know.
2018-10-22T22:25:02 < kakimir> get 4ch
2018-10-22T22:25:12 < jadew> yeah, I'm sure they're ok, but they have this weird behaviour
2018-10-22T22:25:20 < catphish> this is el-cheap device https://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/Rigol-DS1052E-Digital-Oscilloscope-p/ds1052e.htm
2018-10-22T22:25:30 < englishman> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rigol-DS1054Z-RIGOL-DIGITAL-OSZILLOSKOP/dp/B01LNY8CL0/
2018-10-22T22:25:32 < jadew> Steffanx, did you get the one with the fast wvfm/s?
2018-10-22T22:25:35 < Steffanx> and old englishman  :P
2018-10-22T22:25:37 < Steffanx> i mean catphish
2018-10-22T22:25:39 < catphish> but i wonder, what does it suck at?
2018-10-22T22:25:39 < englishman> you can have it tomorrow
2018-10-22T22:25:43 < englishman> 2ch is ooooold
2018-10-22T22:25:58 < Steffanx> "the one" jadew
2018-10-22T22:26:01 < englishman> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rigol-DS1052E-Digital-Oscilloscope-Bandwidth/dp/B005ZPGPI6
2018-10-22T22:26:06 < englishman> it is a lil cheaper but i would not touch it
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2018-10-22T22:26:23 < catphish> that's what i just linked to i thin
2018-10-22T22:26:25 < catphish> *think
2018-10-22T22:26:30 < englishman> hmm yours is Z this is E
2018-10-22T22:26:33 < englishman> dono the difference
2018-10-22T22:26:38 < jadew> Steffanx, I think they had two series, didn't they? one with slower update rate and the other one with 200k wvfm/s?
2018-10-22T22:26:41 < catphish> i linked to the E
2018-10-22T22:26:50 < Lux> E is really old, like 8 years or so
2018-10-22T22:26:51 < englishman> oh yeah
2018-10-22T22:26:51 < catphish> oh englishman linked to the Z
2018-10-22T22:27:02 < catphish> but i really don't know what i need
2018-10-22T22:27:10 < catphish> like, what sucks that i should avoid?
2018-10-22T22:27:29 < Lux> depends on what you want to do
2018-10-22T22:27:34 < catphish> i really don't know what i need, probably nothing particularly demanding
2018-10-22T22:27:38 < Lux> newer ones are nice due to the fast update rate
2018-10-22T22:27:53 < Steffanx> 100k (normal)/400k(sequential) jadew
2018-10-22T22:27:58 < englishman> is it?
2018-10-22T22:28:01 < Steffanx> sequence *
2018-10-22T22:28:03 < jadew> Steffanx, that's really good
2018-10-22T22:28:05 < englishman> i have the mso1074z and it takes f o r e v e r
2018-10-22T22:28:09 < englishman> to scroll
2018-10-22T22:28:22 < jadew> Steffanx, how much does it cost?
2018-10-22T22:28:25 < Steffanx> i must admit the UI of the siglent sucks a bit. like its made for a touch screen or something
2018-10-22T22:28:40 < Steffanx> 520 europe money.
2018-10-22T22:28:46 < con3> hmm how much relief does a dam give a cpu really with sdio? it's just going to pass from memory to sdio right? The cpu would still be doing a considerabe amount of work?
2018-10-22T22:28:47 < jadew> not bad
2018-10-22T22:28:51 < Steffanx> officially its 795 europe money.
2018-10-22T22:28:59 < Steffanx> but hacked.. :P
2018-10-22T22:29:15 < Steffanx> And it runs lunix, what can go wrong?
2018-10-22T22:29:21 < jadew> heh
2018-10-22T22:29:41 < catphish> slightly newer 4 channel, not much more money: https://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/Rigol-DS1054Z-Digital-Oscilloscope-p/ds1054z.htm
2018-10-22T22:30:07 < jadew> catphish, the 1000Z is way way better than the 1000E
2018-10-22T22:30:14 < catphish> jadew: ok :)
2018-10-22T22:30:19 < catphish> it does look better
2018-10-22T22:30:32 < catphish> 50MHz is probably all i need
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2018-10-22T22:31:41 < Steffanx> Should sell my 1052E, people still seem to pay money for i.
2018-10-22T22:32:19 < jadew> I kept mine, just in case I need 2
2018-10-22T22:33:00 < englishman> you know that 50mhz becomes 200mhz in a jif
2018-10-22T22:33:01 < englishman> rite
2018-10-22T22:33:14 < englishman> it's like 2/3 of the reason you get a riglol
2018-10-22T22:33:52 < Steffanx> or a siglent because lunix and just as easy
2018-10-22T22:33:54 < jadew> 200?
2018-10-22T22:34:48 < jadew> I thought the 1000Z can only be hacked to 100 MHz
2018-10-22T22:34:48 < Lux> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds1104x-e-hack-to-200mhz-and-full-options/
2018-10-22T22:34:55 < jadew> ah
2018-10-22T22:34:55 < Steffanx> thay
2018-10-22T22:34:56 < Lux> seems easy on the siglent
2018-10-22T22:35:11 < Lux> plus the soc it's using is faster than the rigol
2018-10-22T22:35:15 < jadew> probably has a better frontend?
2018-10-22T22:35:17 < Steffanx> not sure why i would want wifi though
2018-10-22T22:37:12 < jadew> they're putting wifi on everything these days
2018-10-22T22:38:37 < Steffanx> but no bluetooth -_-
2018-10-22T22:40:21 < jadew> there's even RF gear with wifi on it
2018-10-22T22:40:50 < catphish> can the 1052E be hacked to 100MHz+?
2018-10-22T22:41:06 < jadew> catphish, don't get the 1052E
2018-10-22T22:41:09 < jadew> it's old
2018-10-22T22:41:11 < jadew> slow
2018-10-22T22:41:19 < jadew> but yeah, I think it can
2018-10-22T22:41:33 < catphish> jadew: looking at both, there seems to be no reason to buy the 1052E anyway
2018-10-22T22:41:47 < catphish> the 1054Z seems way superior for not much more money
2018-10-22T22:41:52 < jadew> yeah
2018-10-22T22:42:16 < catphish> can/should one hack the 1054Z?
2018-10-22T22:42:22 < jadew> that siglent that Stefan has could be a good deal too
2018-10-22T22:42:35 < jadew> if it can be hacked to 200 MHz and it costs about the same, I'd get that one
2018-10-22T22:42:53 < Steffanx> but it's siglent and siglent is baaad :P
2018-10-22T22:43:22 < jadew> :)
2018-10-22T22:43:50 < Steffanx> but yes. You can get the SDS1104X-E and make it a SDS1204X-E
2018-10-22T22:44:00 < catphish> 1054Z seems like the sane choice for noob me anyway
2018-10-22T22:44:02 < Steffanx> with what Lux posted
2018-10-22T22:44:04 < englishman> Steffanx is there really lunix in your osillyscope
2018-10-22T22:44:06 < catphish> even at 50MHz
2018-10-22T22:44:11 < Steffanx> Yes englishman
2018-10-22T22:44:15 < englishman> how do you hax it
2018-10-22T22:44:23 < Steffanx> telnet into it. rm some file
2018-10-22T22:44:28 < englishman> heh
2018-10-22T22:44:36 < Steffanx> They closed the telnet port, but someone re-opened it.
2018-10-22T22:44:43 < jadew> can it play 1080p?
2018-10-22T22:44:46 < Steffanx> It's some zynq
2018-10-22T22:44:49 < englishman> such lunix security
2018-10-22T22:45:02 < Steffanx> They just reverse engineered the update file.
2018-10-22T22:45:15 < Steffanx> they = some eevblog people
2018-10-22T22:45:35 < jadew> probably the same siglent shills
2018-10-22T22:45:37 < Lux> so it's a hack siglent can't fix ?
2018-10-22T22:45:55 < invzim> Think I'm upgrading my 1052e to the siglent one
2018-10-22T22:45:57 < Steffanx> idk
2018-10-22T22:46:11 < invzim> pretty happy with my sdg204x and sdm3055
2018-10-22T22:46:24 < Lux> yeah upgrading from the 1052e to that one would be nice
2018-10-22T22:46:27 < Steffanx> hacked SDG for sure uh invzim ?
2018-10-22T22:46:37 < Steffanx> 40->120MHz :D
2018-10-22T22:46:39 < englishman> why dont you sell your 1052e to catphish 
2018-10-22T22:46:39 < invzim> for sure :)
2018-10-22T22:47:00 < invzim> shipping would cost more than it's worth?
2018-10-22T22:47:10 < catphish> 1052e are listed on ebay for way more than they probably should be
2018-10-22T22:47:21 < catphish> at those prices it's much saner to just buy a new 1054z
2018-10-22T22:47:27 < Lux> i'd sell mine for 100eurobucks
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2018-10-22T22:47:35 < jadew> catphish, you're buying the brand :P
2018-10-22T22:47:45 < Steffanx> i'd sell mine for 99 eurobucks.
2018-10-22T22:48:04 < jadew> I'd sell my 1104Z, but it has a dead pixel
2018-10-22T22:48:12 < Steffanx> so what
2018-10-22T22:48:36 < jadew> it will probably fetch a lower price
2018-10-22T22:48:44 < jadew> lower than it's probably worth for me
2018-10-22T22:49:22 < Steffanx> :)
2018-10-22T22:49:42 < jadew> I paid ~$800 for mine
2018-10-22T22:49:46 < jadew> got it right after it was launched
2018-10-22T22:51:46 < catphish> i'll buy your dead pixel for 1 australian dollar
2018-10-22T22:51:51 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-22T22:52:00 < malinus> just get an anlog discovery, 0 dead pixels ;)
2018-10-22T22:52:25 < malinus> usb scopes
2018-10-22T22:52:33 < jadew> analog devices multi-tool thing
2018-10-22T22:52:45  * malinus shrugs
2018-10-22T22:53:12 < jadew> wait, is it not analog's thing?
2018-10-22T22:53:22 < jadew> looks like it's digilent's
2018-10-22T22:53:44 < malinus> it is
2018-10-22T22:53:50 < jadew> but they seem to be a branch of NI, so it's all good
2018-10-22T22:53:52 < catphish> if anyone is serious about selling any rigols and shipping is sane i'll consider it
2018-10-22T22:54:28 < catphish> otherwise i'll probably wait a bit and buy a new 1054Z
2018-10-22T22:55:21 < malinus> thing with usb scopes, is that people compare a chinese $100 usb scope with a $3000 rigol
2018-10-22T22:56:02 < jadew> you mean $300 rigol? :P
2018-10-22T22:56:39 < catphish> i've been using a hantek 6022be until now, it served a purpose, but it's utter garbage
2018-10-22T22:57:11 < catphish> compared to this 100MHz hameg, it's not a tool, it's a toy
2018-10-22T22:58:07 < jadew> which hameg?
2018-10-22T22:58:37 < catphish> HMO1024
2018-10-22T22:58:49 < jadew> hah
2018-10-22T22:59:11 < jadew> R&S kicks ass
2018-10-22T22:59:16 < catphish> i borrowed it for the weekend, it's apparantly less than 1000 british dollars, and i love it
2018-10-22T22:59:55 < catphish> but more than i want to spend :(
2018-10-22T23:00:34 < jadew> that's probably what you'd call a mid-range scope
2018-10-22T23:00:55 < catphish> i borrowed it from a professional EE
2018-10-22T23:01:02 < zyp> 1052e isn't that bad, newer than my 1042c :p
2018-10-22T23:01:23 < catphish> i don't need high specs, just want something moderately responsive
2018-10-22T23:01:38 < jadew> zyp, do you still use that?
2018-10-22T23:01:44 < zyp> yeah?
2018-10-22T23:01:51 < catphish> and much better than my 48MS/s 6022BL
2018-10-22T23:02:04 < zyp> I don't really need a scope all that often, LA is a lot more useful, but when I need a scope, I use it
2018-10-22T23:02:15 < zyp> last was when I tried making eye diagrams with it
2018-10-22T23:02:26 < jadew> haha
2018-10-22T23:02:28 < jadew> come on...
2018-10-22T23:02:34 < zyp> ref. https://bin.jvnv.net/file/uqm0t.jpg
2018-10-22T23:02:55 < jadew> lots of eyes
2018-10-22T23:02:55 < zyp> also https://bin.jvnv.net/file/fRAqT.jpg and https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Nlj5S.jpg
2018-10-22T23:03:05 < Steffanx> It even says T'D => Trolled.
2018-10-22T23:03:27 < zyp> Steffanx, no, triggered
2018-10-22T23:03:30 < Steffanx> :P
2018-10-22T23:03:31 < zyp> just like laurence
2018-10-22T23:03:43 < zyp> jadew, yeah, it's MLT-3
2018-10-22T23:05:19 < zyp> well, yeah, it's a 40MHz scope with 100MHz soft-unlocked, looking at a 125MHz symbol rate :p
2018-10-22T23:05:46 < zyp> I were debugging 100base-tx
2018-10-22T23:06:36 < zyp> anyway, it helped me figure out the issue
2018-10-22T23:06:45 < jadew> there could be lots of issues that are not visible there
2018-10-22T23:07:00 < jadew> I think that series of scopes could do equivalent sampling
2018-10-22T23:07:09 < zyp> well, the main issue was that the fab fucked up the termination resistors by three orders of magnitude
2018-10-22T23:07:11 < jadew> they didn't have the bw for it, but I think they had the capability
2018-10-22T23:07:17 < zyp> 75k instead of 75R or some shit like that
2018-10-22T23:07:32 < jadew> heh
2018-10-22T23:07:47 < catphish> or maybe if anyone has any unwanted rigols, just ship them to me for free?
2018-10-22T23:07:48 < zyp> s/fab/assembly house/
2018-10-22T23:07:49 < jadew> but you didn't catch that with the scope, did you?
2018-10-22T23:08:32 < zyp> jadew, it pointed me in the right direction
2018-10-22T23:09:04 < zyp> .dk
2018-10-22T23:09:13 < jadew> or someone who needs new glasses
2018-10-22T23:09:18 < Steffanx> pros dont make mistakes uh
2018-10-22T23:09:36 < catphish> my friend wants me to build him a controller for his trains now, might be fun, too many projects though
2018-10-22T23:09:36 < jadew> R looks like K
2018-10-22T23:10:05 < catphish> jadew: seriously, who thought R and K were good ways to label resistors?
2018-10-22T23:10:05 < jadew> off to bed
2018-10-22T23:10:11 < jadew> night
2018-10-22T23:10:15 < zyp> no, I bought a tape of 75R and reworked all the boards myself
2018-10-22T23:10:18 < catphish> handwritten they're usually indistinguishable
2018-10-22T23:10:24 < catphish> jadew: night
2018-10-22T23:10:24 < zyp> it was only a prototype series of ten boards or so
2018-10-22T23:10:57 < zyp> catphish, he weren't very interested in my nfc readers? :p
2018-10-22T23:10:58 < catphish> Cracki: he's a professional software developer, he just known nothing about electronics
2018-10-22T23:11:10 < catphish> zyp: i think he needs something about 10x cheaper
2018-10-22T23:11:34 < catphish> Cracki: yeah, hopefully he can learn some arduino
2018-10-22T23:12:00 < catphish> i might build him the interface circuitry if he can be bothered to program it
2018-10-22T23:12:37 < zyp> more like h-bridges
2018-10-22T23:12:45 < catphish> the main thing to control is this 12V h-bridge
2018-10-22T23:13:16 < zyp> catphish, DDC or plain analog?
2018-10-22T23:13:21 < catphish> DCC
2018-10-22T23:13:24 < catphish> can probably buy h bridge modules actually
2018-10-22T23:13:25 < zyp> DCC*
2018-10-22T23:13:32 < zyp> that's what I did
2018-10-22T23:13:47 < zyp> bought some h-bridge modules, hooked up to a random stm32 breakout board I had
2018-10-22T23:14:13 < catphish> zyp: yeah that sounds ideal
2018-10-22T23:14:15 < zyp> Cracki, module as in breakout board
2018-10-22T23:14:37 < catphish> or just lend him my "large" hex driver
2018-10-22T23:15:09 < zyp> I remember I hacked up some shit that could control my trains from a web page, with a camera streaming from the layout :p
2018-10-22T23:16:08 < zyp> the stuff I got had an L298N
2018-10-22T23:16:14 < catphish> i have "large" https://i.imgur.com/iYx6NMQ.jpg or "very large" https://i.imgur.com/C7yKUw5.jpg
2018-10-22T23:16:38 < zyp> haha
2018-10-22T23:16:40 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a02:8071:9289:5900:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2018-10-22T23:17:03 < zyp> :)
2018-10-22T23:17:14 < zyp> I just grabbed some cheap shit from ebay
2018-10-22T23:18:05 < catphish> Cracki: ha yes, i designed it to drive a small car before realising i lacked the mechanical skills and money for batteries
2018-10-22T23:18:39 < catphish> but yeah, im sure i can find some h bridges that can be hooked up to a MCU of his choosing
2018-10-22T23:18:53 < zyp> catphish, I remember that project, didn't realize until now you were the same guy :p
2018-10-22T23:19:13 < catphish> zyp: that i am :)
2018-10-22T23:19:19 < catphish> i rarely finish anythting
2018-10-22T23:19:26 < catphish> just learn and move on
2018-10-22T23:20:17 < zyp> that's what happens to most of my shit too
2018-10-22T23:20:48 < zyp> except the stuff I've actually managed to sell a bunch of
2018-10-22T23:21:54 < catphish> i've never thought of anything to build that would be commercially viable
2018-10-22T23:22:37 < zyp> just a matter of finding the right niche
2018-10-22T23:22:47 < catphish> even if it was, there's no way it would compare to my software business, so it'll probably remain a hobby
2018-10-22T23:23:02 < zyp> for me it was mostly luck
2018-10-22T23:23:33 < catphish> i imagine one could sell an IOT model train controller, interesting niche
2018-10-22T23:23:49 < zyp> one of my friends bought a game controller with a shitty chinese IO board, I figured «I can do it better» and hacked up some stuff
2018-10-22T23:23:51 < catphish> maybe with mobile apps, shrug
2018-10-22T23:23:59 < zyp> so I made a prototype that worked well
2018-10-22T23:24:43 < zyp> then I found a bunch of other people online that were interested too
2018-10-22T23:25:10 < catphish> ideal
2018-10-22T23:25:12 < zyp> hadn't even though about mass production before I had the working prototype
2018-10-22T23:25:54 < catphish> part of my problem is i never build anything simple
2018-10-22T23:26:02 < zyp> speaking of trains, I came across this picture I took once: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/REBcb.jpg
2018-10-22T23:26:23 < catphish> all my stuff just barely works because it's complicated, and i wouldn't be comfortable selling it
2018-10-22T23:26:32 < catphish> that's cool
2018-10-22T23:27:04 < zyp> rental track in a hobby store, bring your own trains to run on it
2018-10-22T23:27:34 < zyp> 12 individual loops, so it fits quite a few people at once
2018-10-22T23:27:49 < catphish> it's not clear to me why you'd do that
2018-10-22T23:28:01 < catphish> but it does look cool
2018-10-22T23:28:27 < zyp> people into collecting model trains but doesn't have the space for a track at home?
2018-10-22T23:28:51 < catphish> one mild annoyance about powering dcc is that it seems that you need to change the polarity sometimes when you change points
2018-10-22T23:29:08 < zyp> yes
2018-10-22T23:29:20 < zyp> only when you have switchback tracks
2018-10-22T23:29:46 < catphish> so you have a loop where its polarity is linked to points that enter / exit it
2018-10-22T23:30:02 < catphish> that adds a massive complexity to the power supply :(
2018-10-22T23:30:04 < zyp> this is true either way, DCC or not
2018-10-22T23:30:26 < catphish> it wouldn't work for DC though
2018-10-22T23:30:39 < catphish> if you changed the polarity the train would go the wrong way
2018-10-22T23:30:57 < zyp> that doesn't have anything to do with it
2018-10-22T23:31:11 < catphish> no?
2018-10-22T23:31:30 < catphish> my understanding was you change the polarity when the train is half way round the loop
2018-10-22T23:31:39 < catphish> that wouldn't work for normal DC
2018-10-22T23:32:10 < catphish> train would surely go into reverse
2018-10-22T23:32:23 < zyp> you're not considering the entire picture
2018-10-22T23:32:37 < zyp> you're looking at it from the wrong viewpoint :)
2018-10-22T23:32:47 < catphish> i believe you :)
2018-10-22T23:32:54 < catphish> i assume it's possible homehow
2018-10-22T23:33:06 < zyp> from the train's viewpoint you're not changing polarity, like you said, you want it to keep going forward
2018-10-22T23:33:32 < zyp> but you need to change the polarity on the track outside the points, since the train will be coming out the opposite direction of how it went in
2018-10-22T23:34:01 < zyp> for DCC it doesn't matter whether it's the inside or the outside you change, they just have to match to not cause a short when the train is crossing the points
2018-10-22T23:34:09 < catphish> oh, so you change the polarity of the outer track, rather than the part where the train is
2018-10-22T23:34:26 < zyp> well, yeah, otherwise the train wouldn't come out again :)
2018-10-22T23:34:42 < catphish> yeah that makes sense, obviously for DCC it's simpler to change the polarity just of the part where the train is
2018-10-22T23:35:10 < zyp> if it's an isolated track you just swap the polarity along with switching the points
2018-10-22T23:35:18 < catphish> yep, that was my thought
2018-10-22T23:35:51 < zyp> I'd just section the track there and keep a separate h-bridge supplying the loop
2018-10-22T23:36:26 < zyp> on the other hand, my idea was to put a radio in each train and just supply constant power
2018-10-22T23:36:34 < zyp> still has the same issue though
2018-10-22T23:36:58 < zyp> but it's only a problem if you have switchbacks in the layout
2018-10-22T23:37:04 < zyp> no need if you design without
2018-10-22T23:37:11 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/IXxjg.JPG <- like this
2018-10-22T23:37:45 < englishman> just connect the tracks to 240VAC and use powerline ethernet
2018-10-22T23:37:54 < catphish> it'd be so much simpler to use a third rail or overhead power :(
2018-10-22T23:38:10 < zyp> englishman, AC would still have the same problem
2018-10-22T23:38:34 < catphish> yeah DCC is essentially just AC, but its still a problem anywhere you have a loop
2018-10-22T23:38:37 < englishman> no, it just makes the tracks immune to snowfall
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2018-10-22T23:38:59 < catphish> zyp: my thought was just to have separate h bridges for turning loops
2018-10-22T23:39:20 < catphish> but overhead power would be awesome
2018-10-22T23:40:11 < zyp> no reason you couldn't do that
2018-10-22T23:40:26 < zyp> it's just inconvenient enough that most people don't :p
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2018-10-22T23:40:49 < catphish> makes sense
2018-10-22T23:41:15 < catphish> but yeah, most trains probably don't have the overhead pickups
2018-10-22T23:41:21 -!- PeterM [bgdwiepp@115-69-25-80-cpe.spintel.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-22T23:41:22 < catphish> and installing it seems non trivial
2018-10-22T23:41:40 < zyp> mine has them in plastic, for decoration :p
2018-10-22T23:42:03 < catphish> lol
2018-10-22T23:42:44 < catphish> what do real trains use?
2018-10-22T23:43:08 < catphish> yeah i remember trains with springy metal pickups on the top as an option when i was a kid
2018-10-22T23:43:21 < leachim6> anyone have any docs or anything on the STM8Sxxx ?
2018-10-22T23:43:34 < leachim6> can't really find anything on it, I bought a couple of them for kicks because they were $0.75/ea
2018-10-22T23:43:39 < catphish> google image search suggests overhead pickups are super common in real trains
2018-10-22T23:44:22 < Steffanx> ^
2018-10-22T23:44:32 < catphish> is stm8 a new device to address the budget market, or some legacy thing?
2018-10-22T23:44:45 < Steffanx> Oldish
2018-10-22T23:44:56 < Steffanx> China likes em
2018-10-22T23:45:03 < zyp> probably depends on the scale too
2018-10-22T23:45:09 < zyp> my trains are n-scale, fairly small
2018-10-22T23:45:20 < Steffanx> Stumble upon then quite often in china stuff
2018-10-22T23:45:24 < catphish> i saw something the other day about a $0.03 OTP MCU
2018-10-22T23:45:26 < Steffanx> Them*
2018-10-22T23:45:27 < leachim6> catphish: they're 8bit
2018-10-22T23:45:31 < leachim6> catphish: from dave jones?
2018-10-22T23:45:36 < zyp> (and trains with realistic numbers of carriages are still fucking long)
2018-10-22T23:45:43 < leachim6> he did a bit on them from lcsc
2018-10-22T23:45:49 < catphish> leachim6: dunno, it was third hand information from youtube
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2018-10-22T23:46:28 < leachim6> https://youtu.be/VYhAGnsnO7w
2018-10-22T23:46:48 < leachim6> after he released this video they sold out of all 400 or so they had ready to ship
2018-10-22T23:46:55 < catphish> i think what i saw was another youtuber talking about *that* video
2018-10-22T23:48:14 < leachim6> I kinda wanna try them
2018-10-22T23:48:30 < leachim6> just for some toss out LED flasher circuits
2018-10-22T23:48:36 < leachim6> they're literally cheaper than 555s
2018-10-22T23:49:25 < catphish> lol
2018-10-22T23:49:52 < leachim6> I take that back
2018-10-22T23:50:01 < leachim6> I got 100x 555's for $3 from aliexpress
2018-10-22T23:50:08 < leachim6> so they're *exactly the same price*
2018-10-22T23:51:05 < leachim6> here's what I got 
2018-10-22T23:51:07 < leachim6> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ARM-STM8S103F3P6-STM8-Minimum-System-Development-Board-Module-For-Arduino/32307411825.html
2018-10-22T23:51:18 < leachim6> seemed fun to play around with, figured they're at least as powerful as ATMega328's
2018-10-22T23:51:53 < Steffanx> Dont mention avr please. People will get triggered.
2018-10-22T23:51:59 < Steffanx> :P
2018-10-22T23:52:10 < leachim6> what about PIC?
2018-10-22T23:52:16 < leachim6> is this a Microchip(tm) free zone?
2018-10-22T23:52:18 < leachim6> haha
2018-10-22T23:52:27 < Steffanx> Hell yea
2018-10-22T23:52:33 < Steffanx> Crt knows.
2018-10-22T23:52:38 < catphish> zyp: i'm trying to imagine some power supply setup where the power supply detects on the fly which outputs are already shorted, and ensures their polarity is the same
2018-10-22T23:53:04 < zyp> I think some of the stuff works like that
2018-10-22T23:53:15 < zyp> i.e. overcurrent response is changing polarity
2018-10-22T23:53:30 < leachim6> Steffanx: can't blame you, blue pill is the craziest value out right now IMHO
2018-10-22T23:53:50 < Steffanx> But just f103 sadly. 
2018-10-22T23:54:03 < catphish> that could work well
2018-10-22T23:54:08 < leachim6> what else are you looking for?
2018-10-22T23:54:13 < leachim6> the other series are more moderately priced
2018-10-22T23:54:45 < leachim6> I thought about picking up one of the f3xx boards, but I have no need for it, F103xxx does all I need
2018-10-22T23:55:00 < catphish> zyp: depends how long you can put a dead short across the outputs before the h bridges explode
2018-10-22T23:55:49 < englishman> leachim6: what do you want to know about stm8? why cant you find docs?
2018-10-22T23:56:13 < leachim6> was just wondering what the consensus was, I can read the datasheet
2018-10-22T23:56:20 < englishman> they are excellent parts
2018-10-22T23:56:26 < leachim6> I use stm32duino to mess with the stm32's I have so far
2018-10-22T23:56:30 < englishman> blow atmel trash out of the water and are like 1/4 cost
2018-10-22T23:56:40 < leachim6> englishman: that's what I was thinking
2018-10-22T23:56:43 < englishman> you get a free pro IDE and pro closedsource compiler and awesome onchip one wire debugging
2018-10-22T23:56:48 < leachim6> I'm not even biased against AVR, the numbers don't lie
2018-10-22T23:56:50 < catphish> englishman: lets not be mean to the AVRs now
2018-10-22T23:57:26 < antto> sdcc?
2018-10-22T23:57:49 < englishman> no, thats opensores
2018-10-22T23:58:08 < leachim6> englishman: arduino IDE is....well, it is what it is
2018-10-22T23:58:22 < leachim6> englishman: are you trying to tell me that STMicro's software is better than Atmel studio?
2018-10-22T23:58:24 < englishman> plz dont bring that into this nice clean channel
2018-10-22T23:58:27 < leachim6> *anchorman I don't believe you gif*
2018-10-22T23:58:47 < englishman> which 8bit avr has nice easy onchip debugging again
2018-10-22T23:58:56 < antto> xmega maybe?
2018-10-22T23:59:07 < englishman> maybe idk never touched xmega
2018-10-22T23:59:16 < leachim6> afaik none of the atmega series do, it's not even an option
2018-10-22T23:59:22 < antto> eh?
2018-10-22T23:59:24 < antto> pls
2018-10-22T23:59:32 < antto> PDI much, UPDI even?
2018-10-22T23:59:33 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/KLqh5SO.png
2018-10-22T23:59:36 < englishman> stm8 vs avr
2018-10-22T23:59:39  * leachim6 is a noob
2018-10-22T23:59:56 < leachim6> what am I looking at here englishman ?
--- Day changed Tue Oct 23 2018
2018-10-23T00:00:03 < englishman> the smallest stm8 and the smallest avr
2018-10-23T00:00:06 < antto> vomit colors?
2018-10-23T00:00:21 < englishman> the stm8 can do 16mhz without an xtal too
2018-10-23T00:00:28 < antto> what's your point?
2018-10-23T00:00:34 < leachim6> that's convenient
2018-10-23T00:00:35 < antto> xmega can do 32mhz without xtal
2018-10-23T00:01:09 < leachim6> relevant study material:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0EahgKvEZA
2018-10-23T00:01:22 < englishman> lets see what xmega has
2018-10-23T00:02:05 < antto> haz noice datasheetz
2018-10-23T00:02:32 < englishman> atxmega would be nice if it wasnt the same price as cheap stm32
2018-10-23T00:02:52 < englishman> that stm8s003f3 is like .22
2018-10-23T00:03:12 < antto> right.. but.. xmega is uber easy to get going with
2018-10-23T00:03:33 < englishman> geat
2018-10-23T00:03:41 < englishman> then later on you can graduate to better stuff
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2018-10-23T00:05:20 < qyx> hm that lcsc
2018-10-23T00:05:39 < qyx> found a Puya Semiconductor flash
2018-10-23T00:05:53 < englishman> was just checking out xmega stuff on there
2018-10-23T00:05:58 < englishman> lcsc looks really expensive
2018-10-23T00:06:18 < qyx> it is like $0.10 for 8mbit
2018-10-23T00:06:32 < qyx> for some stuff it is dirty cheap
2018-10-23T00:06:54 < qyx> some stm32s are cheap too
2018-10-23T00:07:01 < qyx> F401 for example
2018-10-23T00:08:29 < antto> englishman that stm8 you mentioned seems more comparable to a pic18f
2018-10-23T00:08:34 < antto> from first look
2018-10-23T00:10:30 < antto> some of the cheapest xmegas have 32k flash, 4k ram, dma, eventsystem, adc, rtc16, crc, some crypto stuff.. boot section..
2018-10-23T00:11:12 < antto> and gcc ;P~
2018-10-23T00:11:34 < englishman> thats not a feature
2018-10-23T00:11:47 < antto> no, but c++17 is noice
2018-10-23T00:15:52 < Steffanx> Why dont you try dspic crt?
2018-10-23T00:16:04 < Steffanx> Pull it.
2018-10-23T00:16:30 < antto> not sure why dspic if you can just keep on stm32ing
2018-10-23T00:17:01 < antto> u wanna dive into a microsh*t datasheet? masichism?
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2018-10-23T00:20:14 < Steffanx> Sorry im blaxtering antto. Its some inside joke :ap
2018-10-23T00:20:48 < Steffanx> Context is relevant, but i didnt give you any.
2018-10-23T00:23:03  * antto laughs... on the inside
2018-10-23T00:27:28 < Steffanx> Ty
2018-10-23T00:28:23 < Steffanx> Im glad i was able to make it at least 1#% antto
2018-10-23T00:28:32 < Steffanx> 12%
2018-10-23T00:28:45 < antto> laughing != happyness
2018-10-23T00:31:42 < Steffanx> But it helps getting there. Hence just +1%
2018-10-23T00:32:41 < antto> maybe u smoke teh funny grass
2018-10-23T00:33:03 < Steffanx> You should try it. Add another 1%
2018-10-23T00:33:15 < antto> nah, it stinks bad
2018-10-23T00:34:02 < antto> like, worse than my most evil farts
2018-10-23T00:34:24 < Steffanx> Kakimir is that you?
2018-10-23T00:34:47 < antto> r u seeing ghosts now?
2018-10-23T00:39:23 < Steffanx> Nah you reminded me of him
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2018-10-23T00:57:20 < kakimir> what
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2018-10-23T02:50:57 < englishman> LED guy is back again
2018-10-23T02:51:04 < englishman> what a fucking turd
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2018-10-23T03:03:13 < aandrew> which guy is that
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2018-10-23T03:07:48 < Laurenceb124> https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/school-boy-takes-microwave-school-2135169
2018-10-23T03:11:25 < friendofafriend> I sure hope they don't ding him for it.
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2018-10-23T05:30:57 < englishman> aandrew, he is a braggart and a permanoob
2018-10-23T05:31:00 < englishman> insufferable
2018-10-23T05:31:07 < englishman> i cant believe he talked me into taking on his work
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2018-10-23T05:50:02 < aandrew> well you can always charge him appropriately
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2018-10-23T07:01:09 < englishman> i already told him to buy the equivalent chinese clone for $1
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2018-10-23T07:01:16 < englishman> but i dont think he is capable
2018-10-23T07:01:23 < englishman> even though he went to china to "source stuff"
2018-10-23T07:03:31 < aandrew> heh
2018-10-23T07:03:35 < aandrew> well
2018-10-23T07:03:48 -!- Irfan [~yaaic@157.49.252.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2018-10-23T07:03:51 < aandrew> I finally finished routing this (gave more space between diff pairs for better SI) 
2018-10-23T07:03:59 < aandrew> the panel is done, gonna send this to you momentarily
2018-10-23T07:04:02 < aandrew> dont' laugh too hard
2018-10-23T07:04:38 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/OEOrIiS
2018-10-23T07:04:50 < aandrew> just going over the routing layer by layer now to clean up the shit that ineveitably occurs
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2018-10-23T07:38:02 < aandrew> englishman: you've got mail
2018-10-23T08:00:09 < englishman> replied
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2018-10-23T08:27:23 < qyx> aandrew: I like your dip sockets
2018-10-23T08:28:03 < qyx> also kakimir must be proud, so many smas
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2018-10-23T08:33:35 < benishor> ohai
2018-10-23T08:33:37 < benishor> Please select first the target STM32F7xx device used in your application (in stm32f7xx.h file)
2018-10-23T08:33:58 < benishor> how would I get the proper target for a STM32746NGHx ?
2018-10-23T08:34:41 < benishor> I'm trying to get eclipse to build a blinky for stm32f746-disco
2018-10-23T08:34:55 < benishor> but oh boy this seems to be harder than I expected
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2018-10-23T09:01:51 < emeb_mac> Eclipse: Now you have N+1 problems.
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2018-10-23T09:19:04 < Steffanx> Oh no.
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2018-10-23T09:59:07 < Steffanx> Welcome
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2018-10-23T10:21:07 < Sadale> nani? watashi cannot speak nihongo desu.
2018-10-23T10:27:45 < jadew> haven't heard anything outrageus in a while
2018-10-23T10:28:18 < jadew> has the world chilled?
2018-10-23T10:29:23 < day> trump wants to crack down on free china shipping? nooo
2018-10-23T10:30:15 < day> hes unfriending a lot of people. but SA aint one of them :P
2018-10-23T10:30:34 < day> saudi arabia
2018-10-23T10:30:38 < cjbaird> Grteat news for Malaysia, with all the CN companies 'relocating' there.  (Noticed eZee has done so..)
2018-10-23T10:31:21 < day> cjbaird: they are actually relocating?
2018-10-23T10:31:33 < jadew> how is trump going to do anything about free shipping?
2018-10-23T10:31:48 < day> jadew: by not subsidizing it anymore
2018-10-23T10:32:10 < jadew> day, you mean by not buying from china?
2018-10-23T10:32:13 < jadew> that's laughable
2018-10-23T10:32:29 < day> no when you buy from china with free shipping, your country is the one paying for the shipping pretty much
2018-10-23T10:32:59 < jadew> not it doesn't
2018-10-23T10:33:16 < jadew> they pay for the shipping in your country too
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2018-10-23T10:33:24 < jadew> because they have agreements on this shit
2018-10-23T10:33:25 < day> yeah at a HIGHLY discounted rate
2018-10-23T10:33:34 < day> which often doesnt even cover the cost
2018-10-23T10:33:35 < jadew> yeah, but it's something the posts agreed to
2018-10-23T10:33:50 < day> yeah, not like they had much say in this
2018-10-23T10:33:52 < jadew> now start messing with that and you're messing with the competitiveness of your economy
2018-10-23T10:34:07 < jadew> because that means that your business will have to pay more than other businesses from other countries
2018-10-23T10:34:30 < day> dunno how it was in other countries. but the german post used to be a government business, they probably agreed to that during that time. now they are private and stuck with it
2018-10-23T10:34:59 < jadew> day, that's because it still makes sense
2018-10-23T10:35:15 < jadew> china gives them a high volume business, so they get discounted prices
2018-10-23T10:35:36 < day> on which they seem to lose money
2018-10-23T10:35:45 < day> so im not sure thats a good business :P
2018-10-23T10:35:52 < jadew> the post is losing money?
2018-10-23T10:36:11 < jadew> if they're losing money, they should change their agreement, it's easy
2018-10-23T10:36:18  * cjbaird sucks at finding a 24v eZee hub motor. Looks to be all 36/48v now.
2018-10-23T10:36:19 < day> according to news yes. i remember norway and usa complaining about it
2018-10-23T10:36:30 < day> jadew: apparently it is not easy.
2018-10-23T10:37:06 < jadew> what I'd like goverments to crack on, is non CE shit being imported from china and being sold in the EU
2018-10-23T10:37:28 < jadew> that's unfair competition, enforced by EU regulations
2018-10-23T10:37:42 < jadew> right...
2018-10-23T10:38:06 < day> the thing is CE is rather worthless, you can just certify it yourself in many cases. so how do you deside if a CE sign is legit or not
2018-10-23T10:38:15 < day> decide*
2018-10-23T10:38:33 < day> with two "it is not" sides :P
2018-10-23T10:39:03 < jadew> day, you can quickly test most stuff to show that they're not CE
2018-10-23T10:39:16 < jadew> normally, someone has to complain about X company and show that their product doesn't obbey the rules
2018-10-23T10:39:33 < jadew> but with china imports it's impossible to do that, so the government should do it on its own
2018-10-23T10:39:58 < jadew> otherwise they're putting local businesses at a disadvantage
2018-10-23T10:40:06 < jadew> and they're undermining the economy
2018-10-23T10:41:03 < jadew> as long as the chinese can produce with complete disregard to these rules and still sell in the EU, they will
2018-10-23T10:49:40 < cjbaird> Why don't the Chinese spend 50% of the companies' profits on Football Stadium seats like /real/ companies. fuuuuuuuuu.
2018-10-23T10:50:37 < cjbaird> (..shit that happens with every Private-school Businessmens in AU..)
2018-10-23T10:56:55 < day> jadew: i just dont see any way to enforce it. unless you test every.single.imported.product
2018-10-23T10:57:20 < jadew> day, they can require additional papers
2018-10-23T10:57:41 < jadew> like proof of testing at an accredited company
2018-10-23T10:58:03 < jadew> with verifiable serial numbers and all that
2018-10-23T10:58:33 < jadew> and this makes sense, because they're not liable after the product has made it into the EU, unlike EU based companies, for which their word is enough
2018-10-23T10:59:16 < jadew> exactly
2018-10-23T10:59:28 < jadew> anyway, I have to run, ttyl
2018-10-23T11:03:02 < day> thats because it is for NAILS. not for clothes or skin. duh
2018-10-23T11:03:04 < day> :p
2018-10-23T11:03:18 < day> rtfm
2018-10-23T11:04:50 < day> yeah, china has some shady business people. but seeing how the government fails to even control its own market...
2018-10-23T11:05:45 < day> what was the last big drama? fake/ ineffective vaccinations?
2018-10-23T11:06:20 < day> before that toxic milkpowder for babys...
2018-10-23T11:06:38 < day> lol no
2018-10-23T11:07:09 < day> some china local stuff. iirc. they hanged the ceo for that
2018-10-23T11:07:26 < day> babies died because of it iirc
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2018-10-23T11:45:14 < kakimir> I have this "LCSOFT" mini board with fx2
2018-10-23T11:45:58 < kakimir> "CY7C68013A MINI BOARD"
2018-10-23T11:48:52 < kakimir> not now
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2018-10-23T11:49:48 < kakimir> and without watching the video: NO
2018-10-23T11:50:10 < kakimir> I'm not a man prostitute
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2018-10-23T11:59:49 < catphish> i suddenly love robotdigg, they photograph your order before they ship it
2018-10-23T12:00:50 < Steffanx> Inb4 robotdick
2018-10-23T12:02:57 < catphish> dicknplace http://www.weefin.com/crab/image/2018/10/22/6a26b2ad4894c1a987a189ee4934c930.png http://www.weefin.com/crab/image/2018/10/22/c939223df1eaf21e07f19531791343b9.png
2018-10-23T12:04:40 < Steffanx> Hi charlie. Crt likes charlies.
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2018-10-23T12:05:30 < catphish> lol
2018-10-23T12:05:38 < catphish> such pumps, very suck, wow
2018-10-23T12:08:33 < catphish> i do hope DHL don't ship it
2018-10-23T12:08:50 < catphish> fucking retardhl
2018-10-23T12:08:59 < Steffanx> Dhl isnt too bad here.
2018-10-23T12:09:17 < Steffanx> Works for me(tm)
2018-10-23T12:09:36 < Steffanx> I ship stroopwafels with dhl to aussieland and canada..
2018-10-23T12:09:42 < catphish> Steffanx: actually they're very quick and efficient, i'm just pissed off because i'm having an argument with them about VAT
2018-10-23T12:09:45 < Steffanx> They arrived
2018-10-23T12:10:26 < catphish> they misvalued one of my imports, charged me about 5x as much VAT as i actually owed, then added an admin fee, and want a much larger admin fee to correct it
2018-10-23T12:10:54 < catphish> i offered to pay then the incorrect VAT if they waived the admin fee, they ignored me and threatened legal action
2018-10-23T12:11:11 < catphish> so they can get fucked
2018-10-23T12:11:43 < zyp> that sounds like typical DHL
2018-10-23T12:12:11 < zyp> hi crt
2018-10-23T12:12:31 < catphish> oh, also the person they threatened with legal action wasn't me, but my employer, who have nothing to do wit the transaction except that i used their address for the delivery
2018-10-23T12:13:34 < catphish> hi all
2018-10-23T12:14:03 < catphish> hi zyp
2018-10-23T12:14:04 < catphish> hi crt
2018-10-23T12:14:19 < catphish> i should do some work now
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2018-10-23T12:24:59 < kakimir> what do you think of 1M series resistor to ADC channel?
2018-10-23T12:26:09 < kakimir> I'm measuring rail that can be powered without MCU being powered
2018-10-23T12:26:28 < catphish> risc os is being released under apache licence :) that means we can make new acorn computers :D
2018-10-23T12:26:50 < catphish> can we make it run on stm32
2018-10-23T12:27:35 < catphish> i guess a Pi will be more appropriate :(
2018-10-23T12:39:21 < catphish> restrict the flow of current probably
2018-10-23T12:39:43 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-23T12:39:54 < kakimir> power rail it's monitoring is battery
2018-10-23T12:40:05 < kakimir> I don't want it to suck it empty
2018-10-23T12:40:43 < catphish> i guess if you can make the ADC slow enough, you can have a huge resistor there
2018-10-23T12:41:24 < kakimir> is Analog Input Resistance really what I get for that pin when digital buffer is off?
2018-10-23T12:41:33 < kakimir> 100Mohm
2018-10-23T12:41:41 < kakimir> this is attiny20 btw.
2018-10-23T12:42:10 < catphish> i believe the stm32 puts stuff in high impedance by default, but no idea about attiny
2018-10-23T12:42:38 < kakimir> pins are inactive in reset
2018-10-23T12:42:58 < kakimir> I need to read a bit if digital buffers are off too
2018-10-23T12:44:04 < kakimir> no
2018-10-23T12:44:29 < kakimir> ghetto everything
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2018-10-23T12:48:30 < Laurenceb124> https://i.redd.it/al34uveqvkt11.jpg
2018-10-23T12:48:34 < Laurenceb124> beta orbiters
2018-10-23T12:49:09 < Laurenceb124> almost a complete ring of them
2018-10-23T12:49:36 < kakimir> what good would that opamp do anyway?
2018-10-23T12:50:48 < kakimir> can input impendance in ADC mode, digital buffer off be really so high?
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2018-10-23T12:50:54 < kakimir> 100M
2018-10-23T12:51:06 < kakimir> I think that is only for ADC mux input
2018-10-23T12:51:30 < kakimir> I think only thing I can do is test
2018-10-23T12:52:11 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-23T12:52:18 < kakimir> shrug indeed
2018-10-23T12:52:23 < kakimir> lunch>
2018-10-23T12:58:54 < karlp> benishor: https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-miniblink has stm32f746 disco board in it if you're still stuck...
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2018-10-23T13:47:34 < qyx> This electrode sensor probe is only for purpose of using together with ORP controller/meter/tester. It has not the function of control itself.  It outputs only chemical signal to your controller/meter/tester. It does not output electrical signal.
2018-10-23T13:47:48 < qyx> interesting
2018-10-23T13:49:29 < benishor> karlp: cool but I just want a basic eclipse project that compiles for stm32f746g disco
2018-10-23T13:49:43 < benishor> so that I can validate my toolchain works
2018-10-23T13:50:55 < karlp> well, you can import that project as is. 
2018-10-23T13:51:14 < karlp> and building it from the commandline will help confirm/refute the toolchain portion,
2018-10-23T13:51:22 < karlp> getting eclipse to work is another step
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2018-10-23T14:04:15 < aandrew> englishman: weird. I didn’t remove any traces, I just imported the board files into the panel like I usually do
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2018-10-23T14:54:56 < englishman> aandrew: hmm, the file i got has nothing in it except the outline, no traces or components, no bom to export except fids
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2018-10-23T15:47:04 < aandrew> weird
2018-10-23T15:47:14 < aandrew> I exported a BOM and it's a huge CSV
2018-10-23T15:47:19 < aandrew> let me send the gerbers
2018-10-23T15:47:22 < aandrew> wonder what's going on
2018-10-23T15:47:26 < aandrew> what version of altium do you use?
2018-10-23T15:50:21 < englishman> it does the same in 18.1 and 19
2018-10-23T15:52:04 < catphish> i want a vector version of this to print https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/27/article-2019547-0D076F6F00000578-268_233x423.jpg
2018-10-23T15:54:38 < karlp> shariah is no smoking now too?
2018-10-23T15:55:02 < catphish> i assumed they didn't allow any drugs
2018-10-23T15:55:08 < catphish> dunno though
2018-10-23T15:55:17 < catphish> (recreational drugs)
2018-10-23T16:03:49 < aandrew> englishman: ok, I'm 17.whatever here
2018-10-23T16:04:42 < englishman> you can send gerbs and bom for now
2018-10-23T16:04:57 < englishman> i can reinstall 17 and try that
2018-10-23T16:05:46 < aandrew> englishman: I emailed them to you about 10m ago, hopefully they look right
2018-10-23T16:05:56 < englishman> ah yeah gottem
2018-10-23T16:06:36 < aandrew> awesome
2018-10-23T16:10:05 < englishman> is there really a 27.5 mil pitch connector
2018-10-23T16:10:58 < aandrew> ... which connector is that?
2018-10-23T16:11:47 < aandrew> ah
2018-10-23T16:11:49 < aandrew> that isn't a connector
2018-10-23T16:11:51 < englishman> missing GKO layer?
2018-10-23T16:11:53 < aandrew> it's a hotbar location
2018-10-23T16:12:02 < aandrew> for a tiny little OLED
2018-10-23T16:12:14 < aandrew> GKO is outlines?
2018-10-23T16:12:21 < englishman> yeah
2018-10-23T16:12:57 < aandrew> I don't think it's missing. right now both top and bottom components are stuck on layer 11. my usual trick of setting up the layer pairs, then selecting all bottom components and moving them to top, then back to bottom isn't working for some reason
2018-10-23T16:13:20 < englishman> the plane layers kind of do it but an actual routing outline will be needed
2018-10-23T16:13:23 < englishman> that sounds.. weird
2018-10-23T16:13:47 < aandrew> hm, the milling should have shown up on mechanical 1
2018-10-23T16:13:49 < aandrew> one moment
2018-10-23T16:13:53 < karlp> altium, pro software for pros, super easy to use. pro results...
2018-10-23T16:14:10 < aandrew> karlp: this is gerbers. that's different.
2018-10-23T16:14:20 < aandrew> gerbers are a pain in the ass on any platform
2018-10-23T16:14:46 < aandrew> oh, duh
2018-10-23T16:14:49 < aandrew> I didn't export mech1
2018-10-23T16:14:54 < karlp> you'r eusing your pro software to generate them though right?
2018-10-23T16:14:59 < karlp> so it's stillpro software's fault.
2018-10-23T16:15:17 < aandrew> GKO is keepout, I don't have any keepouts
2018-10-23T16:15:28 < englishman> also could you export the BOM plz, i have the picknplace
2018-10-23T16:15:47 < aandrew> hm, thought the PNP CSV had all the relevant info. will do
2018-10-23T16:15:54 < englishman> idk about putting all components on one layer that sounds nonpro but what do i know
2018-10-23T16:16:48 < englishman> picknplace will have your 0.1u on 300 lines, it won't tell me that you have 300 caps :)
2018-10-23T16:17:20 < aandrew> thank you for humoring my stupidity. I'm only 3 sips into my coffee 
2018-10-23T16:17:51 < englishman> altium juice
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2018-10-23T16:28:30 < catphish> so where would one go about buying a reel of caps as cheap as possible?
2018-10-23T16:28:42 < aandrew> catphish: check octopart
2018-10-23T16:28:46 < kakimir> that is the question
2018-10-23T16:28:51 < kakimir> englishman
2018-10-23T16:29:12 < aandrew> woo, SSL certs updated in the nick of time
2018-10-23T16:29:23 < kakimir> I bet the answer is to go thru distributors every time you buy caps
2018-10-23T16:29:45 < catphish> aandrew: ideal
2018-10-23T16:29:52 < kakimir> and find a compromise that would fit your spec maybe
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2018-10-23T16:31:55 < catphish> £16 GBP for 4,000 of these https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/KEMET/C0603C104Z3VACTU?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs0AnBnWHyRQFqPnX0Olvco%252bYoiWDWTaEY%3d
2018-10-23T16:32:12 < catphish> they're garbage but they're cheap :)
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2018-10-23T16:33:44 < catphish> good enough for testing pnp and decoupling stuff
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2018-10-23T16:50:34 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDFbQJkvhzM encore
2018-10-23T16:51:28 < Ecco> Hey :) PCB question: what would be the cheapest way to connect two PCBs together?
2018-10-23T16:52:31 < Ecco> I guess that's an option
2018-10-23T16:52:39 < Ecco> wouldn't assembly end up being quite expensive?
2018-10-23T16:52:58 < Ecco> (sure it's quick and easy for a prototype, but if you want to mass produce, then I guess that'd be expensive)
2018-10-23T16:53:08 < Ecco> depends on how many you want to make :)
2018-10-23T16:53:42 < catphish> Ecco: in mass production, cheaper to join them end to end by making them one PCB :)
2018-10-23T16:54:10 < BrainDamage> why do they have to be separate?
2018-10-23T16:54:27 < Ecco> actually they don't have to
2018-10-23T16:54:35 < Ecco> I'm wondering wether it'd be cheaper
2018-10-23T16:54:38 < BrainDamage> so don't
2018-10-23T16:54:55 < BrainDamage> don't create problems for yourself unless you need to
2018-10-23T16:54:58 < Ecco> well, it sounds counterintuitive, but it might make sense
2018-10-23T16:55:20 < Ecco> -> part of the PCB needs to hold smt components, so must have not-so-bad tolerances
2018-10-23T16:55:28 < Ecco> -> but 80% of the PCB is for a keypad
2018-10-23T16:55:44 < Ecco> whos tolerance can be shit and which can even be made using a carbon silkscreen process
2018-10-23T16:55:47 < BrainDamage> go in cost optimization mode if you need to cost optimize
2018-10-23T16:55:55 < catphish> but PCB for SMT is hardly expensive, compared to through hole assembly
2018-10-23T16:55:59 < Ecco> which is exactly what were doing
2018-10-23T16:56:21 < catphish> which i guess you'd need to do to join them
2018-10-23T16:56:23 < Ecco> catphish: sure, but the other PCB would simply be *not* mouted
2018-10-23T16:57:12 < Ecco> another reason is SMT optimization
2018-10-23T16:57:21 < Ecco> 80% if not more of the PCB is empty
2018-10-23T16:57:58 < karlp> catphish: I wouldn't buy y5v caps, period.
2018-10-23T16:58:01 < Ecco> so SMT-ing the PCB is rather inefficient
2018-10-23T16:58:20 < karlp> but sure, if you're using them as "right sized and weighted things for a pick n place tester" sure, maybe
2018-10-23T16:58:23 < catphish> karlp: y?
2018-10-23T16:59:12 < catphish> karlp: but yeah, part of it is purely for pnp testing, so obviously "meh" there, but interested to know regarding decoupling caps
2018-10-23T16:59:33 < karlp> terrible dc performance, massively varying capacitance.
2018-10-23T16:59:42 < englishman> awful dielectric in general
2018-10-23T16:59:48 < englishman> for bottom dollar china trash
2018-10-23T16:59:54 < karlp> save 2%, see 5% hgiher failure rates in your products? awesome tradeoff!
2018-10-23T17:00:00 < catphish> i see
2018-10-23T17:00:22 < c10ud> just buy 1k x7r 35/50v and you're done
2018-10-23T17:00:38 < c10ud> if octopart is too costly, check lcsc
2018-10-23T17:00:39 < kakimir> 1euro a piece
2018-10-23T17:00:50 < catphish> i probably won't get through 1000, but dunno
2018-10-23T17:00:51 < englishman> haha
2018-10-23T17:01:13 < catphish> if i can get 1k locally that'll prob be fine, can always buy more
2018-10-23T17:01:29 < c10ud> there you go https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Multilayer-Ceramic-Capacitors-MLCC-SMD-SMT_100nF-104-10-50V_C14663.html
2018-10-23T17:01:33 < englishman> buying y5v is like buying 10% resistors
2018-10-23T17:02:27 < englishman> dam $116
2018-10-23T17:02:30 < catphish> is y5v just made of compressed trash?
2018-10-23T17:02:31 < englishman> for 5k
2018-10-23T17:03:18 < englishman> if you are just trashing them in pick place testing get 10v y5v
2018-10-23T17:03:59 < catphish> englishman: will probably do that :) can always buy 500 good ones separately
2018-10-23T17:04:18 < kakimir> X5R is okay for most cases
2018-10-23T17:04:26 < catphish> or i could just buy 10 and teach my pnp to reuse them :)
2018-10-23T17:04:34 < kakimir> unless hot stuff around that cap
2018-10-23T17:04:41 < kakimir> hot components*
2018-10-23T17:04:46 < karlp> c10ud: that's 4 times the price catphish was looking at...
2018-10-23T17:05:01 < aandrew> yeah my caps are all C0G/NP0 or X5R or X7R if the same price or high temp needed. I don't think I hav a single Y5V cap in the house
2018-10-23T17:05:09 < catphish> yeah i'll buy the shit ones for now
2018-10-23T17:05:24 < catphish> can always upgrade when i need to build anything important
2018-10-23T17:05:33 < karlp> definitely an rf nerd using c0g and np0 aandrew  :)
2018-10-23T17:05:40 < kakimir> this cap crisis can maybe enlighten many
2018-10-23T17:06:45 < c10ud> well if he is brave enough he can try sourcing from chinagirl directly
2018-10-23T17:07:03 < c10ud> then the price will be lower most likely
2018-10-23T17:07:17 < karlp> heh, ordering by price on lcsc is "otu of stock" for the first lots of pages
2018-10-23T17:07:27 < kakimir> that X7R or NP0 is not always required
2018-10-23T17:07:39 < kakimir> or C0G
2018-10-23T17:07:50 < karlp> these are way cheaper than the ones you linked c10ud https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Multilayer-Ceramic-Capacitors-MLCC-SMD-SMT_SAMSUNG_CL10B104KA8NNNC_100nF-104-10-25V_C1590.html
2018-10-23T17:07:51 < catphish> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PARTIAL-REEL-2000pcs-Philips-0603-39R-5-THICK-FILM-RESISTORS/352468224429?hash=item5210be49ad:g:vVsAAOSwgYdbp-ly:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true&autorefresh=true
2018-10-23T17:07:57 < catphish> even better
2018-10-23T17:08:09 < kakimir> ebay sourcing mlccs
2018-10-23T17:08:10 < karlp> $30 for 5k, 25V, x7r
2018-10-23T17:08:13 < kakimir> 2018
2018-10-23T17:08:13 < catphish> resistors are much cheaper :)
2018-10-23T17:08:32 < kakimir> electronics apocalypse
2018-10-23T17:08:47 < c10ud> wut
2018-10-23T17:09:26 < catphish> can get 5,000 resistors for < £10
2018-10-23T17:09:35 < catphish> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360K-0603-1-1-10W-Royal-Ohm-Chip-Resistor-reel-5k/132605499563?hash=item1edfe758ab:g:O9sAAOSwjXNa6Ca2:rk:28:pf:0
2018-10-23T17:09:39 < catphish> they'll do the job :)
2018-10-23T17:09:46 < c10ud> in place of caps?
2018-10-23T17:09:49 < catphish> yep :)
2018-10-23T17:09:55 < karlp> he's only testing pick and place gear
2018-10-23T17:10:08 < catphish> karlp: i was gonna keep trolling him
2018-10-23T17:10:22 < catphish> but yeah, i just need junk parts to test placing
2018-10-23T17:10:23 < karlp> I'd still recommend buying parts taht you can still also use..
2018-10-23T17:10:27 < karlp> just because of ewaste being a thing
2018-10-23T17:10:41 < karlp> rather than deliberately buying garbage you'll never use.
2018-10-23T17:11:00 < catphish> spose
2018-10-23T17:11:39 < c10ud> how about 15000+ resistors	
2018-10-23T17:11:39 < c10ud> $0.0004/each ->
2018-10-23T17:11:39 < c10ud> 	$6
2018-10-23T17:12:04 < kakimir> year 2018 electronics hot topics: can I avoid using bypass capacitors and how to use pcb for a bypass capacitor
2018-10-23T17:14:11 < catphish> just 2 plates innit
2018-10-23T17:14:12 < karlp> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/samsung-electro-mechanics/CL10B104KB8NNNC/1276-1000-2-ND/3886658 are cheapest 0603 100nf at digikey too, 
2018-10-23T17:14:21 < karlp> nice to see consistency
2018-10-23T17:14:24 < karlp> best korean caps
2018-10-23T17:15:04 < catphish> those are pretty cheap, and x7r :)
2018-10-23T17:15:28 < karlp> oh, nvm, no stock aailable
2018-10-23T17:15:34 < karlp> get em from lcsc instead
2018-10-23T17:15:42 < catphish> oh yeah, i kept running into that
2018-10-23T17:16:06 < karlp> cheapest at digikey is way more.
2018-10-23T17:16:41 < kakimir> yes, nevermind is the thought in my head when I search caps
2018-10-23T17:18:30 < catphish> someone on ebay selling 4k x 100nf x7r 16V, £20 delivered
2018-10-23T17:18:36 < catphish> seems 16v are a fair bit cheaper
2018-10-23T17:24:54 < aandrew> weird. atium won't generate a BOM for a panel (i.e. it won't dig in to each board in the panel)
2018-10-23T17:25:23 < karlp> do you need me to say it again? ;)
2018-10-23T17:27:07 < catphish> this is what you get for not using kicad
2018-10-23T17:29:13 < kakimir> can I give symbolic values for bytes received from SPI
2018-10-23T17:29:18 < kakimir> in pulseview ie.
2018-10-23T17:29:35 < kakimir> certain value is certain event
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2018-10-23T17:41:00 < karlp> you can make your own decoder on top of spi to do custom things quite easily.
2018-10-23T17:41:13 < karlp> but the spi decoder itself no, unless I'm misunderstanding what you want
2018-10-23T17:43:58 < aandrew> karlp: no, no you are 100% accurate on this count. THis is idiotic that it can't generate a single PNP and BOM for a panel
2018-10-23T17:44:47 < aandrew> no wait, it was operator error
2018-10-23T17:44:50 < kakimir> karlp: my device spi spits out bytes that are codes for events
2018-10-23T17:44:56 < aandrew> "Project Reports" gives me a full BOM
2018-10-23T17:46:34 < karlp> kakimir: so... what do you want?
2018-10-23T17:46:54 < karlp> you wantt o assign text words to bytes? you can't do that in the base level spi decoder.
2018-10-23T17:47:06 < karlp> but you could easily do it in a stacked one
2018-10-23T17:49:35 < kakimir> stacked?
2018-10-23T17:50:04 < kakimir> linux this shit?
2018-10-23T17:50:45 < kakimir> pipe chars from some sort of tool to my own software that prints bytes in form of text
2018-10-23T17:52:03 < aandrew> you should see my pretty-print I2C transactions script
2018-10-23T17:52:19 < aandrew> it looks like someone sneezed on a 1000-piece ascii table puzzle
2018-10-23T17:54:14 < kakimir> I need to forward my spi directly to irc protocol
2018-10-23T17:54:24 < kakimir>  /join ##stm32 first
2018-10-23T17:56:47 < kakimir> seek help
2018-10-23T18:05:50 < kakimir> good
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2018-10-23T18:30:20 < mawk> I broke my backspace key
2018-10-23T18:30:27 < mawk> how am I gonna code now
2018-10-23T18:31:10 < mawk> at least in emacs I use C-d, but it doesn't work in other programs
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2018-10-23T18:32:38 < aandrew>  ^h?
2018-10-23T18:43:08 < oz4ga> on screen keyboard and the mouse? *evul grin*
2018-10-23T18:46:48 < englishman> aandrew: PCB panel quote sent, still no BOM though?
2018-10-23T18:49:44 < englishman> oh i see you were having issues
2018-10-23T18:52:51 < aandrew> yes fighitng this stupid thing still, I think I have to do BOM/PNP per-board not panel-wide
2018-10-23T18:53:02 < aandrew> you sent the PCB panel quote to me? I do not have anything yet
2018-10-23T18:55:39 < englishman> no, sent to fab
2018-10-23T18:56:39 < Steffanx> Such ##stm32 business. I should ask commission
2018-10-23T18:57:52 < englishman> 15% of $0 is $0
2018-10-23T18:57:55 < englishman> dont quit your day job
2018-10-23T18:58:50 < benishor> mawk: use left arrow + delete
2018-10-23T18:58:52 < Steffanx> Are you that cheap. Damn.
2018-10-23T18:59:05 < Steffanx> Buy a new kb..
2018-10-23T19:00:44 < mawk> yeah I do that already benishor but it's slow
2018-10-23T19:00:51 < mawk> I claimed the warranty Steffanx 
2018-10-23T19:00:54 < mawk> but it'll take a couple days
2018-10-23T19:01:14 < englishman> i like this hall effect keyboard
2018-10-23T19:01:27 < mawk> I have a nice mechanical keyboard but my gf was getting mad at the sound it makes
2018-10-23T19:01:28 < benishor> mawk: quite a great opportunity to turn to zen coding
2018-10-23T19:01:33 < benishor> you shouldn't need the backspace key at all
2018-10-23T19:01:36 < mawk> lol
2018-10-23T19:03:16 < englishman> learned to zen program
2018-10-23T19:03:16 < englishman> the lines flow from my fingers
2018-10-23T19:03:16 < englishman> backspace is broken
2018-10-23T19:03:28 < catphish> i'm literally going home now, have fun
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2018-10-23T19:05:23 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO6juZaWn44
2018-10-23T19:06:45 < karlp> englishman: what keyboard?
2018-10-23T19:06:59 < englishman> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/xmit-hall-effect-mechanical-keyboard
2018-10-23T19:07:00 < benishor> englishman: haiku? close
2018-10-23T19:09:14 < karlp> no media keys? lame
2018-10-23T19:10:07 < englishman> meh, dont use em
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2018-10-23T19:23:08 < Steffanx> Those one the left are programmable?
2018-10-23T19:23:11 < Steffanx> https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/xmit-hall-effect-mechanical-keyboard/AI7B2908_copy_20171101133359.jpg?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=max&w=424&h=436&dpr=2.549999952316284&q=27
2018-10-23T19:24:50 < aandrew> lol you can't go around that site without a login. cmd-w
2018-10-23T19:25:20 < Steffanx> Appple fag :P
2018-10-23T19:26:25 < aandrew> :-)
2018-10-23T19:27:21 < Steffanx> I like my apple kb. Even when using windows
2018-10-23T19:32:02 < karlp> Steffanx: meh, jumbotro sun layout.  I found that massdrop website pretty crap for actually looking at details of the product 
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2018-10-23T20:09:54 < Steffanx> hmm on mobile you can actually see something. 
2018-10-23T20:17:57 < englishman> aandrew: replied
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2018-10-23T20:20:10 < aandrew> heh
2018-10-23T20:20:11 < aandrew> yeah I see
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2018-10-23T20:20:33 < aandrew> shitty but ok. 4/6 is what I've got for 100mil diff, not 4/4
2018-10-23T20:21:05 < aandrew> and via in pad we've all discussed here a hundred times already. I'm willing to roll those dice just based on previous experience
2018-10-23T20:21:25 < aandrew> interesting note on the BGA track width; It's heavy only on the power oens. I didn't think that was going ot be an issue
2018-10-23T20:21:40 < aandrew> but ok. board is too risky for that vendor. sigh.
2018-10-23T20:34:51 -!- tprrt [~tprrt@217.114.201.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2018-10-23T20:41:03 < benishor> anyone knows what I  need to to to cubemx to expose the LD1 defines for a F746G discovery board?
2018-10-23T20:41:11 < benishor> *to do to*
2018-10-23T20:41:24 < benishor> I can't seem to get my head around it
2018-10-23T20:48:59 < zyp> Steffanx, are you tired of my house updates yet? today they started assembling the floor in the kitchen: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/jChNL.jpg
2018-10-23T20:52:03 < zyp> they also put in the ventilation system: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/JrvJJ.jpg
2018-10-23T20:57:27 < antto> i'm getting altium banners huehue
2018-10-23T20:57:39 < antto> pls google, don't u know me
2018-10-23T21:02:39 < Steffanx> lol no zyp
2018-10-23T21:02:44 < Steffanx> the kitchen is on the 2nd floor?
2018-10-23T21:03:27 < zyp> yes
2018-10-23T21:03:54 < Steffanx> interesting
2018-10-23T21:06:19 < qyx> such recuperation
2018-10-23T21:06:54 < qyx> so lang tung ting
2018-10-23T21:06:59 < qyx> or how was it exactly
2018-10-23T21:07:15 -!- kow_ [~afed@135.0.26.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-23T21:09:13 < Steffanx> tay lang.
2018-10-23T21:09:15 < Steffanx> tey leng.
2018-10-23T21:09:18 < aandrew> heh
2018-10-23T21:09:37 < aandrew> I just noticed in Altium there is sometimes a colored square to the left of "System" in the bottom right of the screen
2018-10-23T21:09:41 < englishman> zyp can you use a wider angle lens
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2018-10-23T21:09:44 < englishman> your house looks so small
2018-10-23T21:09:52 < englishman> also HDR please
2018-10-23T21:09:52 < aandrew> if you hover over it, it tells you how many GDI resources are used and whether you should consider restarting altium
2018-10-23T21:10:03 < aandrew> if you can't fix your leaks, expose them. lol
2018-10-23T21:10:11 < aandrew> karlp is right. Pro indeed!
2018-10-23T21:10:22 < englishman> that was removed in 18
2018-10-23T21:10:52 < aandrew> of course, it's too useful
2018-10-23T21:11:15 < Steffanx> is it back in 19?
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2018-10-23T21:20:18 < zyp> englishman, then I'd have to bring a proper camera over
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2018-10-23T21:37:08 < Steffanx> is ti common to have a kitchen on th 2nd floor there?
2018-10-23T21:38:42 < zyp> I don't have any statistics to go on, but it's not uncommon
2018-10-23T21:39:06 < zyp> what part of it is weird to you?
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2018-10-23T21:42:34 < zyp> I think in general it's normal to have kitchen and living room next to each other on the same floor (nowadays often as one big room)
2018-10-23T21:43:03 < zyp> and then it depends on the layout where it's beneficial to put those
2018-10-23T21:43:22 < zyp> putting them on a higher floor generally means you get a better view out through the windows
2018-10-23T21:46:02 < jpa-> we have our front door on 2nd floor
2018-10-23T21:46:24 < zyp> yeah, I was about to say, it's also a matter of the shape of the land
2018-10-23T21:46:26 < aandrew> englishman: you've got BOMs
2018-10-23T21:46:33 < aandrew> shitty auto-gen altium ones but I'll be massaging them
2018-10-23T21:46:38 < aandrew> gotta go pick up the kid now though
2018-10-23T21:47:37 < zyp> it's pretty common to have a house in the hillside with access to one floor on one side of it and another floor on the other side
2018-10-23T21:48:58 < zyp> my parents' house got three floors, main entrance on the front side goes to the second floor which has kitchen and living room and all the normal stuff
2018-10-23T21:49:50 < englishman> aandrew: four separate bom?
2018-10-23T21:49:56 < englishman> not a problem just making sure
2018-10-23T21:53:04 < Steffanx> Is just something ive NEVER seen before zyp
2018-10-23T21:55:07 < zyp> every single dutch house got the kitchen on the ground floor?
2018-10-23T21:55:57 < Steffanx> im not sure about all of them, but pretty much.
2018-10-23T21:55:59 < Steffanx> i think
2018-10-23T21:56:27 < zyp> how many floors does a typical dutch house have?
2018-10-23T21:56:32 < Steffanx> but usually on the same floor as the living room indeed, but that's also on ground floor.
2018-10-23T21:56:45 < Steffanx> 2 + attic.
2018-10-23T21:56:49 < jpa-> it's the most common arrangement here also, because usually the second floor is much smaller / partially cold storage
2018-10-23T21:56:54 < zyp> I mean, you don't have hills, so naturally you don't have hillside houses
2018-10-23T21:57:41 < Steffanx> We have hills, and some hill houses, but ... tiny hills :P
2018-10-23T21:58:11 < Steffanx> perhaps in limburg some, but ive never been there :P
2018-10-23T21:58:32 < zyp> I've been to the tallest point in .nl, wasn't very tall :p
2018-10-23T21:58:41 < Steffanx> it still counts as a hill
2018-10-23T21:58:45 < jpa-> was it on top of Steffanx' head?
2018-10-23T21:59:11 < Steffanx> that would be a mountain
2018-10-23T21:59:18 < zyp> no, I think it was more or less as far away from Steffanx as you can get in .nl
2018-10-23T21:59:51 < Steffanx> ^
2018-10-23T22:00:30 < zyp> I'm lying, the southwestern edge is another 30km further away
2018-10-23T22:01:05 < Steffanx> "more or less"
2018-10-23T22:01:13 < zyp> :p
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2018-10-23T22:17:23 < aandrew> englishman: yes. Each bom is for one board in the panel. The sensor bom would be x5 and the little filter board bom x6 for instance. 
2018-10-23T22:17:30 < englishman> cool thx
2018-10-23T22:17:40 < aandrew> Actually no, the filter and display won’t be populated
2018-10-23T22:18:05 < aandrew> The digitizer and sensors are the concern. :-)
2018-10-23T22:18:13 < englishman> so just 2 boms, sensor is x5
2018-10-23T22:18:25 < aandrew> Correct
2018-10-23T22:18:27 < englishman> ok
2018-10-23T22:19:28 < aandrew> What I will likely do is hand-populate just the power supplies on one of the panels to verify I didn’t fuck anything up. Once that’s tested I’d green light probably 5 prototypes
2018-10-23T22:20:18 < aandrew> So 5 panels (5 digitizers, 25 sensors)
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2018-10-23T22:49:45 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/MQrdmVZ.jpg?1
2018-10-23T22:49:48 < englishman> matte orange
2018-10-23T22:50:57 < Steffanx> Waffle.
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2018-10-23T23:09:33 < aandrew> what an odd colour for a PCB
2018-10-23T23:09:57 < Steffanx> no, it got zeniered crt
2018-10-23T23:12:36 < Steffanx> As mr Pink.
2018-10-23T23:12:39 < Steffanx> *ask
2018-10-23T23:17:26 < Steffanx> expected something else
2018-10-23T23:39:40 < karlp> zyp: even if steffan is,I'm not :)
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2018-10-23T23:40:38 < Steffanx> even if steffan is what? The 2nd floor kitchen thing?
2018-10-23T23:41:31 < karlp> tired of house updates
2018-10-23T23:41:49 < Steffanx> ah :)
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--- Day changed Wed Oct 24 2018
2018-10-24T00:04:53 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjjVg9zBnnw kakimusics™
2018-10-24T00:07:39 < kakimir> inspirations
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2018-10-24T02:51:40 < Laurenceb124> sup crt
2018-10-24T02:51:42 < Laurenceb124> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-45439954
2018-10-24T02:58:21 < Laurenceb124> need some SJW molested by police pronz
2018-10-24T03:21:38 < Laurenceb124> heh
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2018-10-24T03:40:11 < Laurenceb124> arggg Qt
2018-10-24T03:40:32 < Laurenceb124> I think I have a circular dependency...
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2018-10-24T04:06:14 < Laurenceb124> daily reminder https://postimg.cc/t71v7KJq
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2018-10-24T04:37:00 < aandrew> there we go, got the layer pairs updated. couldn't just use the inspector and flip the components to top then back to bottom. I just selected them all and updated from PCB libraries and that did it
2018-10-24T04:53:45 < englishman> sent LED guy the breakup email
2018-10-24T04:53:53 < englishman> i hope he gets the FUCKING message
2018-10-24T04:54:18 < englishman> meanwhile have freshy fresh new Xray contract
2018-10-24T04:55:41 < englishman> $NVDA https://i.imgur.com/LZaaccY.jpg
2018-10-24T04:58:33 < aandrew> oh?
2018-10-24T05:04:27 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2018-10-24T05:14:30 < johntramp> do any of you know what the max baud rate I can get through a usb uart dongle is ?  pl2303 chipset
2018-10-24T05:15:20 < dongs> pl2303? haha
2018-10-24T05:15:25 < dongs> youd be lucky if it doesnt crash above 115200
2018-10-24T05:15:30 < dongs> get something less shitty
2018-10-24T05:15:40 < dongs> CP210x stuff can go megabits 
2018-10-24T05:15:51 < dongs> PL is just a garbage chipset
2018-10-24T05:16:13 < johntramp> hmm  i'll see what else i have
2018-10-24T05:16:45 < johntramp> FT232RL better?
2018-10-24T05:16:53 < dongs> if its legit yeah
2018-10-24T05:17:19 < johntramp> i think it was from sparkfun
2018-10-24T05:17:29 < dongs> ft232 can do up to 3 mbit
2018-10-24T05:18:08 < johntramp> ah sweet 
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2018-10-24T06:04:15 < englishman> 100% of dirty led money refunded
2018-10-24T06:05:41 < aandrew> lol
2018-10-24T06:05:47 < aandrew> tell us led man stories
2018-10-24T06:08:49 < englishman> constantly bragging about how many leds he was selling
2018-10-24T06:09:00 < englishman> $15k yesterday! $15k the day before!
2018-10-24T06:09:20 < englishman> oh here's $400 can you make a shitload of pcbs for me? and can you deliver 500pcs for friday?
2018-10-24T06:10:07 < englishman> oh and it needs to have cruus logo
2018-10-24T06:10:37 < englishman> i didnt get that email you sent me 5 days ago? let me reply to it now
2018-10-24T06:10:44 < englishman> ^ serious
2018-10-24T06:11:51 < englishman> can not move on fast enough
2018-10-24T06:13:28 < aandrew> heh
2018-10-24T06:13:37 < aandrew> sounds like a client that is just not worth any price
2018-10-24T06:13:58 < aandrew> I like the $400 for a shitload
2018-10-24T06:14:02 < aandrew> that probably covers half your tooling
2018-10-24T06:14:27 < englishman> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqPfNCkU8AAq-1-.jpg:large
2018-10-24T06:14:33 < englishman> looks like some macfag won $1b
2018-10-24T06:14:39 < englishman> guess he can afford the new ishit
2018-10-24T06:15:03 < branjb> shit those are my numbers
2018-10-24T06:15:50 < aandrew> heh some macfag edited teh HTML
2018-10-24T06:16:15 < branjb> nah
2018-10-24T06:16:25 < branjb> they bought a new ticket with the winning numbers after the fact
2018-10-24T06:16:40 < branjb> Oct 23; 8:50pm
2018-10-24T06:16:47 < englishman> what will you get your ole stm32 pals if you win branjey
2018-10-24T06:17:01 < branjb> i didn't buy a lotto ticket
2018-10-24T06:17:03 < englishman> dont forget about your stm3 2bros
2018-10-24T06:17:15 < englishman> oh well screw you then
2018-10-24T06:17:19 < branjb> lol
2018-10-24T06:17:36 < branjb> the winning ticket was sold about 200 miles from me though
2018-10-24T06:17:51 < englishman> so someone did win?
2018-10-24T06:18:10 < branjb> no one has claimed it yet but they know if those numbers were printed I guess
2018-10-24T06:18:23 < englishman> led guy is texting me now
2018-10-24T06:18:24 < branjb> they said it was bought at a store in congress, AZ
2018-10-24T06:20:16 < branjb> if i won i'd just convert it all to gold though
2018-10-24T06:20:18 < branjb> fuck the fed
2018-10-24T06:20:55 < englishman> you could convert congress, az into branjtown
2018-10-24T06:21:23 < branjb> honestly i did the same thing everyone does, think about what i'd do if i won, and i realized it would be terrible
2018-10-24T06:21:40 < branjb> i'd basically be in constant fear of being kidnapped/murdered/taken for ransom/being stalked/etc
2018-10-24T06:22:08 < branjb> i'd prob end up dead within the year
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2018-10-24T06:24:32 < englishman> hopefully in a killdozer style ordeal
2018-10-24T06:25:02 < aandrew> englishman: you gave the LED guy your cell? bad move
2018-10-24T06:25:10 < englishman> company number
2018-10-24T06:25:30 < aandrew> branjb: yeah there's a lot of history pointing to sudden wealth ruining lives
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2018-10-24T06:50:55 < johntramp> dongs: btw both the ft232 and pl2303 seem to be working fine at 1382400 baud
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2018-10-24T07:02:48 < friendofafriend> branjb: Platinum is a pretty good buy compared to a decade ago.
2018-10-24T07:09:27 < Thorn> buy a bag of RTDs
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2018-10-24T08:23:59 < emeb_mac> lol @ congress, AZ
2018-10-24T08:25:11 < emeb_mac> Wide spot in the road out in the desert NW of Phoenix.
2018-10-24T08:26:51 < emeb_mac> Famous for a big rock painted to look like a frog.  https://fotospot.com/attractions/arizona/frog-rock
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2018-10-24T08:35:51 < dongs> johntramp: PL will eventually crash tho
2018-10-24T08:42:51 < cjbaird> I haz uBITX! \o/ .. Serial # 82612, apparently.
2018-10-24T08:44:53 < cjbaird> The Indian Loli who did the QC left her signature, too.
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2018-10-24T10:37:01 < Steffanx> Is marble_visions alright, crt? Do you know?
2018-10-24T10:37:32 < marble_visions> Steffanx: does it show? i'm switching irc bouncers and testing stuff out
2018-10-24T10:37:40 < marble_visions> crt: me
2018-10-24T10:38:06 < Streaker> heehee. He said "bouncers"
2018-10-24T10:39:02 < marble_visions> i don't know why Steffanx asked you about me
2018-10-24T10:39:46 < marble_visions> i'm constantly disconnecting from freenode. another channel has an automatic ban for this
2018-10-24T10:40:40 < marble_visions> brb
2018-10-24T10:43:41 < benishor> anyone managed to export an mbed project to clion?
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2018-10-24T11:12:25 < Ecco> I'm looking for cheap-yet-not-terrible 10uF filtering cap for an STM32. What price should those be for 10k units? Currently I have a quote at $.11 apiece, which seems expensive. What do you think? 
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2018-10-24T11:16:10 < Ecco> Yeah, I've heard about this for like 1 year and a half
2018-10-24T11:16:34 < Ecco> I wonder if I'm picking the right par though
2018-10-24T11:16:49 < Ecco> Random browsing on digikey, I'm finding 10uF MLCC caps at $0.01
2018-10-24T11:17:23 < Ecco> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/samsung-electro-mechanics/CL10A106KQ8NNNL/CL10A106KQ8NNNL-ND/3894251
2018-10-24T11:17:58 < Ecco> The quote we have at $0.11 is for (10uF, 0603, 25V 20% X5R)
2018-10-24T11:18:27 < emeryth> >Quantity Available  0
2018-10-24T11:18:30 < Ecco> That one on digikey is pretty much equivalent, except it's rated for 6.3V max
2018-10-24T11:18:43 < Ecco> emeryth: huh, no, 40k?
2018-10-24T11:18:52 < Ecco> oh
2018-10-24T11:18:54 < Ecco> sorry you're right
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2018-10-24T11:19:49 < Ecco> Haohmaru: yes, like I said above. But that shouldn't be an issue for an STM32 filtering cap, right?
2018-10-24T11:21:39 < Ecco> indeed they are, my understanding is that they're here to prevent voltage drop if there's a suddent current spike
2018-10-24T11:22:53 < Ecco> that's not correct?
2018-10-24T11:23:03 < qyx> Ecco: 10uF 0603 25V looks sufficiently uncommon to cost 0.11
2018-10-24T11:23:21 < qyx> ie. too small for such cpacity and voltage rating
2018-10-24T11:23:24 < Ecco> qyx: great! I assumed we were indeed picking something weird threfore expensive
2018-10-24T11:25:09 < qyx> see this for example https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/cl21a106kpfnnng/kondenzatory-mlcc-smd-0805/samsung/
2018-10-24T11:25:20 < qyx> 0.015€/1000pcs
2018-10-24T11:25:42 < Ecco> better!
2018-10-24T11:26:48 < qyx> I would use 0805 10V/16V because of derating
2018-10-24T11:26:53 < qyx> also their price is better
2018-10-24T11:26:56 < Ecco> derating?
2018-10-24T11:27:01 < qyx> if the size difference is not a big issue
2018-10-24T11:27:08 < qyx> voltage derating
2018-10-24T11:27:09 < Ecco> Size is definitely not an issue
2018-10-24T11:27:21 < qyx> when a dc voltage is applied, the capacity is lowered
2018-10-24T11:27:26 < Ecco> oh, ok
2018-10-24T11:27:34 < qyx> and it is even worse for small sized caps
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2018-10-24T11:28:09 < qyx> if I can accept bigger caps, I usually pick 1206 25V
2018-10-24T11:28:18 < qyx> for 10uF
2018-10-24T11:28:30 < Ecco> we got a quote for those
2018-10-24T11:28:44 < Ecco> 10uF, 1206, 25V -> $0.15 apiece
2018-10-24T11:29:45 < qyx> I can see 0.04e/1000pcs for 10u/1206/25V
2018-10-24T11:30:17 < qyx> but if you are doing 3V3, 10/16V should be ok
2018-10-24T11:30:35 < qyx> I would not use 6V3 personally
2018-10-24T11:30:42 < Ecco> ok
2018-10-24T11:30:47 < Ecco> Board runs at 2.8V
2018-10-24T11:30:56 < Ecco> but indeed it's always better to have a margin
2018-10-24T11:32:40 < qyx> so here you go https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/samsung-electro-mechanics/CL21A106KPFNNNG/1276-6456-1-ND/5958084
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2018-10-24T12:05:34 < marble_visions> am i disconnecting now?
2018-10-24T12:05:50 < marble_visions> i shouldn't be
2018-10-24T12:11:24 < Steffanx> No?
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2018-10-24T12:14:52 < marble_visions> great
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2018-10-24T12:24:13 < PaulFertser> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2016/11/04/scientists-just-cant-stop-studying-falling-cats/
2018-10-24T12:27:39 < PaulFertser> crt: I had no idea it's such a deep topic.
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2018-10-24T12:32:08 < qyx> are cats falling regularly?
2018-10-24T12:32:25 < qyx> anyone seen waterproof sma connectors?
2018-10-24T12:32:28 < qyx> kakimir maybe?
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2018-10-24T13:34:05 < karlp> can easily interface with our microcontrollers (MCU) by just using a few GPIO pins instead of the more complex UART or I2C protocols
2018-10-24T13:35:29 < karlp> https://blog.st.com/smallest-knx-transceiver-smart-building/
2018-10-24T13:35:34 < karlp> still shippinf f103s on baords
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2018-10-24T15:01:16 < benishor> anyone got an mbed cmake-arm-gcc export running?
2018-10-24T15:11:16 < karlp> do you want to try wording that a little more explicitly?
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2018-10-24T15:20:12 < benishor> karlp: I created a simple blinky project on mbed, I exported it for cmake-arm-gcc target
2018-10-24T15:20:35 < benishor> I downloaded the zip archive containing the export, unzipped, got into the project folder
2018-10-24T15:20:44 < benishor> mkdir build && cd build
2018-10-24T15:20:46 < benishor> cmake .. 
2018-10-24T15:20:47 < benishor> make
2018-10-24T15:20:58 < benishor> compilation works but linking fails
2018-10-24T15:21:39 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/WUnTRjCt
2018-10-24T15:22:49 < benishor> hence my question
2018-10-24T15:24:22 < benishor> yes, I already saw that, but the symbols are there, in /mbed/TARGET_DISCO_F746NG/TOOLCHAIN_GCC_ARM/STM32F746xG.ld 
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2018-10-24T15:25:00 < karlp> cross compilation in clion is still fucking nasty hacks isn't it?
2018-10-24T15:25:16 < benishor> I don't think it's a clion issue
2018-10-24T15:25:31 < benishor> I tried to build it by hand with cmake and got the same issues
2018-10-24T15:25:40 < karlp> are you using clion's cmake?
2018-10-24T15:26:18 < karlp> what does mbed's export docs say about exporting cmake and requirements on your environment?
2018-10-24T15:26:21 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/2GtXJAGm
2018-10-24T15:26:25 < benishor> this is the "by hand" output
2018-10-24T15:26:28 < karlp> weren't you trying to do a stdlib cube build in eclipse yesterday
2018-10-24T15:26:33 < karlp> mbed->clion isn't going to be easier.
2018-10-24T15:26:52 < karlp> see all those failures?
2018-10-24T15:26:53 < benishor> karlp: I dumped eclipse altogether and managed to do cube -> clion 
2018-10-24T15:27:44 < karlp> linker script is probably passing the ResetHandler as entry point, but it can't find the startup code.
2018-10-24T15:27:53 < karlp> whatever camkelists shit youv'e got is garbage
2018-10-24T15:28:29 < karlp> does cube generate cmake now too?
2018-10-24T15:28:58 < karlp> I'm still curious how much fun you're going to have getting it to work well in clion :)
2018-10-24T15:29:05 < benishor> ffs
2018-10-24T15:29:06 < karlp> are you already using clion on the desktop? 
2018-10-24T15:29:19 < benishor> this shit is frustrating
2018-10-24T15:29:35 < benishor> no wonder the learning curve is *steep*
2018-10-24T15:29:41 < karlp> you're asking a lot.
2018-10-24T15:29:51 < karlp> you want to use command line tools to have a UI give youa ll the options
2018-10-24T15:29:57 < karlp> ifyou want to use a UI for everything, start there,
2018-10-24T15:30:09 < karlp> don't start with exporting a cloud compiler thing to an intermediary and trying to reimport
2018-10-24T15:30:25 < karlp> or use cube to export directly to the UI project files ofyour choice
2018-10-24T15:31:00 < karlp> cmakelists.txt and makefiles are really very nasty intermediary formats, as I think jetbrains figured out when they naiively assumed that "supporting cmake" woudl be "easy"
2018-10-24T15:33:07 < benishor> karlp: regardless of that, the cmake-arm-gcc export from mbed should work, no?
2018-10-24T15:33:17 < benishor> regardless of the IDE
2018-10-24T15:33:23 < benishor> let's leave the IDE out of this
2018-10-24T15:33:46 < benishor> I just want to build the mbed exported for cmake-arm-gcc target
2018-10-24T15:38:44 < karlp> benishor: ok, so, like I said, what does mbed say abotu doing that?
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2018-10-24T15:38:53 < karlp> wht does it expect to have in place, what are you  meant to edit locally first?
2018-10-24T15:43:25 < benishor> karlp: it doesn't say anything
2018-10-24T15:43:48 < karlp> great! thanks mbed!
2018-10-24T15:44:10 < karlp> seriously, how did you find an exporter with no docs? look harder?
2018-10-24T15:46:20 < benishor> Haohmaru: IMO it has everything it needs
2018-10-24T15:46:32 < benishor> it's either flawed or my setup is flawed
2018-10-24T15:46:37 < benishor> there is a linked script in there
2018-10-24T15:46:45 < benishor> in the exported source tree
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2018-10-24T15:49:47 < karlp> why not just use mbed-cli?
2018-10-24T15:50:17 < karlp> where did you find this cmake export thing?
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2018-10-24T15:56:13 < benishor> mbed online editor. go to a project, right click on its name -> export
2018-10-24T15:56:21 < benishor> it's an "official" feature
2018-10-24T15:57:23 < karlp> then it should have docs
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2018-10-24T16:04:13 < karlp> (use the mbed cli https://github.com/ARMmbed/mbed-os/pull/5476 )
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2018-10-24T16:05:24 < karlp> from the screenshots it looks like clion's cross compiling has gotten farrrrr better than earlier
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2018-10-24T16:05:56 < benishor> I don't know what you mean by clion's cross compiling
2018-10-24T16:06:01 < benishor> clion is simply an ide
2018-10-24T16:06:15 < benishor> cross-compiling is specified in the cmake file 
2018-10-24T16:06:32 < benishor> configuring the toolchain and such
2018-10-24T16:09:05 < karlp> benishor: well, clion's original cmake support didn't actually make that possible.
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2018-10-24T16:10:25 < karlp> and no, cmakefiles don't normally specific how to cross compile, they specify how to compile, and are expected to be told which compilers to use, this is nto the same thing
2018-10-24T16:10:56 < karlp> https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/10115-openocd--stm32cubemx-support-for-arm-embedded-development might be interesting too
2018-10-24T16:11:27 < benishor> that's what I used for the cube mx -> sw4stm32 -> clion conversion
2018-10-24T16:11:42 < benishor> it works. I am able to build and flash from within clion
2018-10-24T16:12:48 < karlp> so what the fuck are you wasting time on now then?
2018-10-24T16:12:54 < benishor> karlp: you can either specify compilers for cross-compile within cmakefiles.txt itself, or call cmake with -DCMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE
2018-10-24T16:13:16 < benishor> I want to export an mbed project and build/flash with clion
2018-10-24T16:13:21 < benishor> not a cubemx one
2018-10-24T16:14:37 < benishor> I'm really surprised people are not outraged about this. what's the way the regular joe goes about getting started with stm32?
2018-10-24T16:14:58 < englishman> cubemx + free keil
2018-10-24T16:15:00 < englishman> takes like 5 seconds
2018-10-24T16:15:54 < englishman> you are no cross-compiling, you are using an arm compiler to compile arm code
2018-10-24T16:16:09 < englishman> no eclipse in sight, no "clion"
2018-10-24T16:16:21 < englishman> or other made up words
2018-10-24T16:17:38 < PaulFertser> That's still cross-compiling, by definition.
2018-10-24T16:17:48 < benishor> depends on the meaning of "arm compiler"
2018-10-24T16:17:50 < englishman> i havent understood a single thing you were trying to do in the last 1.5 hours and you have a real expert helping you
2018-10-24T16:17:56 < PaulFertser> Native compilation would be stm32 building the project itself.
2018-10-24T16:18:00 < benishor> if you use an OS and compile for another platform, you are cross compiling
2018-10-24T16:18:34 < benishor> englishman: are you the real expert?
2018-10-24T16:18:42 < englishman> i have working stm32 programs
2018-10-24T16:18:54 < benishor> just trying to get the picture
2018-10-24T16:18:55 < englishman> blinky.c etc
2018-10-24T16:19:21 < benishor> the problem is simple: get a fucking mbed project to cleanly compile with cmake
2018-10-24T16:19:51 < PaulFertser> Doesn't mbed suck anyway? Why not work with libopencm3 instead?
2018-10-24T16:20:50 < benishor> I'm a beginner, I don't know the differences between libopencm3, mbed or others. I'd like to get started with something in an environment I am comfortable with and then get into subtleties and nuances
2018-10-24T16:21:01 < PaulFertser> Also, it's not like it's too hard to create your own cmake project however you like it and make it link mbed files.
2018-10-24T16:23:59 < PaulFertser> benishor: when you are trying to stick to vendor solutions without changing anything you have to use the tools they promote, I'd say. If you want to use another IDE then it's up to you to create a project in that IDE and set it up accordingly.
2018-10-24T16:25:12 < benishor> PaulFertser: fair enough. except in this case we are talking about an existing published mbed feature (cmake-arm-gcc toolchain export) which does not work as expected
2018-10-24T16:25:36 < benishor> I expect to be able to build a cmake project when given one
2018-10-24T16:25:38 < PaulFertser> benishor: who cares about mbed? You can try asking them. IIRC nobody here is seriously using mbed.
2018-10-24T16:27:15 < BrainDamage> yup, nobody here would be able to help you besides generic insight / knowledge, if you were to use a different library, it'd be another matter
2018-10-24T16:27:55 < PaulFertser> I have some limited cmake experience but I didn't like it.
2018-10-24T16:31:27 < aandrew> heh
2018-10-24T16:32:47 < aandrew> local shop: $2700 2.5 weeks for 10 panels. multech in shenzhen: $1330 in 10 days
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2018-10-24T16:35:10 < englishman> not bad
2018-10-24T16:35:43 < aandrew> nope. multech (shenzhen) comes pretty highly recommended too
2018-10-24T16:36:35 < englishman> i bet thats already way more complex shit than astonerberg has ever touched
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2018-10-24T16:37:54 < aandrew> no 
2018-10-24T16:37:59 < aandrew> he does some intense shit
2018-10-24T16:38:17 < englishman> sure
2018-10-24T16:40:51 < marble_visions> http://www.openstm32.org/System%2BWorkbench%2Bfor%2BSTM32 ... no HTTPS
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2018-10-24T16:41:02 < marble_visions> but you need to register to get it
2018-10-24T16:41:26 < BrainDamage> so use a disposable email
2018-10-24T16:41:32 < marble_visions> s/to get it/to get the workbench/
2018-10-24T16:42:21 < marble_visions> BrainDamage: sure but it's bad nontheless
2018-10-24T16:42:56 < BrainDamage> the national railway webpage spit me back my exact password in an email when I've lost it
2018-10-24T16:43:06 < BrainDamage> horrible security practices are everywhere
2018-10-24T16:43:50 < BrainDamage> the internet is a series of tubes feeding toxic waste to a continous dumpster fire
2018-10-24T16:44:27 < marble_visions> nice description
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2018-10-24T16:55:47 < c10ud> aandrew, most probably local shop sends your gerbers to china
2018-10-24T16:56:06 < aandrew>  c10ud actually to their german mfg
2018-10-24T16:56:18 < aandrew> c10ud: they do simple stuff locally and have a german plant for the complicated things
2018-10-24T16:57:45 < c10ud> btw jlcpcb is nice even if my experience with them is limited to two boards
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2018-10-24T16:59:41 < aandrew> I've heard good things about them too
2018-10-24T16:59:46 < aandrew> this is a fairly high technology panel though
2018-10-24T17:00:01 < aandrew> 6L, blind vias, via-in-pad, 4/4, thin (3mil) prepreg
2018-10-24T17:02:49 < c10ud> I saw the Strange Parts guy having a tour in their facility, seemed nice, but yes with such a design you may be better off with someone you can yell at
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2018-10-24T17:34:37 < aandrew> yeah I saw that too. I really dislike a lot of these videos where the host is SOOO EXCITED and ACTING GOOFY 
2018-10-24T17:35:26 < Thorn> >3mil prepreg
2018-10-24T17:35:28 < Thorn> wat
2018-10-24T17:35:34 < Thorn> is it even possible
2018-10-24T17:35:44 < aandrew> yep
2018-10-24T17:35:58 < aandrew> makes for nice thin diff pairs and the ability to put them close together
2018-10-24T17:36:06 < mawk> I need to port the ada runtime to some stm32
2018-10-24T17:37:19 < aandrew> if I have 3 mil between the stripline and the reference plane, I only need 9mil between the diff pairs. with 4/6 spacing (that gets you 100 ohms differential impedance) it means my trace-to-trace distance between diff pairs (center-to-center) is only 13mil
2018-10-24T17:39:20 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/4aiowwn
2018-10-24T17:39:48 < aandrew> so I can fit like 5 diff pairs under an SO8, for instance
2018-10-24T17:41:33 < aandrew> or in that case, a ton of them in a small area on in inner plane
2018-10-24T17:44:09 < aandrew> with thicker prepreg h is bigger which means my track-to-track distance must scale 3x and that makes track density go down in a real hurry
2018-10-24T17:44:39 < aandrew> and as you can see from https://imgur.com/a/OEOrIiS I really don't have a lot of room to spare
2018-10-24T17:56:30 < Thorn> mawk: it's already ported unless I'm mistaken
2018-10-24T17:57:02 < Thorn> they're having 'make with ada' competitions using stm32 nucleo / discovery
2018-10-24T18:00:22 < mawk> only on stm32f4 and f7 Thorn
2018-10-24T18:00:38 < mawk> I meant I need to port it to another stm32 board
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2018-10-24T18:35:06 < karlp> it's ada, it's perfect and works everywhere right?
2018-10-24T18:35:13 < karlp> just open up your wallet and pay adacore then
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2018-10-24T18:46:35 < englishman> apparently digikey has been charging me a tax that they are not authorized to charge
2018-10-24T18:46:40 < englishman> $3B company
2018-10-24T18:46:41 < englishman> proooo
2018-10-24T18:47:20 < karlp> need I remind you they still follow encryption export restrictions that were rescinded.... whenever?
2018-10-24T18:48:15 < englishman> ublox sales dude asked if i was buying ublox from digikey because they have better pricing than ublox direct
2018-10-24T18:48:20 < englishman> (and also ship faster)
2018-10-24T18:48:23 < englishman> i said no, digikey is racist
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2018-10-24T18:48:43 < englishman> he said wow, you are right, they are very racist
2018-10-24T18:48:51 < englishman> but did not offer to solve the racism
2018-10-24T18:49:02 < englishman> typical fucking swiss neutrals
2018-10-24T18:49:03 < karlp> speakign to digikey did nothing either, not even a reply :)
2018-10-24T18:50:18 < englishman> although for the encryption shit, it still looks very convoluted and when it comes to us law, it's much cheaper to be safe than sorry
2018-10-24T18:50:34 < karlp> digikey got burnt in the past: https://www.shippingsolutions.com/blog/a-golden-rule-of-export-compliance-dont-let-this-happen-to-you
2018-10-24T18:50:45 < karlp> englishman: no, it' sno. the us doj rescined export controls on encryption
2018-10-24T18:50:52 < karlp> and besides, they're not even applying it consistently.
2018-10-24T18:51:02 < karlp> you can buy _some_ products with encryption, but not others
2018-10-24T18:51:08 < karlp> so.... that's just incompetence
2018-10-24T18:51:57 < englishman> well, at the moment they may owe me $5k in tax collected illegally
2018-10-24T18:52:07 < englishman> so i'm not arguing against you
2018-10-24T18:52:13 < englishman> on the incompetence part
2018-10-24T18:52:14 < karlp> good luck getting htat back.
2018-10-24T18:52:21 < englishman> thanks
2018-10-24T18:52:22 < englishman> !
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2018-10-24T18:52:38 < karlp> it's like when amazon says, "don't worry, we'll charge you upfront on what we think your nations tax and customs laws are"
2018-10-24T18:52:42 < karlp> riiiight
2018-10-24T18:52:48 < englishman> i'm sure if they were in deed wrong, it wont be too bad to get refunded
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2018-10-24T18:53:49 < karlp> heh, TIL us has anti boycott regulations. https://www.shippingsolutions.com/blog/export-compliance-basics-beware-of-antiboycott-provisions
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2018-10-24T18:54:35 < karlp> so the us can set embargoes, but no-one else can.
2018-10-24T18:55:34 < aandrew> digikey is racist?
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2018-10-24T18:57:15 < englishman> thats a weird ass article about digikey
2018-10-24T18:57:33 < englishman> goes to show how convoluted international trade can be
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2018-10-24T18:58:50 < englishman> although charging me tax when you are not authorized to do so is kind of a big one
2018-10-24T19:05:14 < karlp> hey, digikey is leting me put some things in a cart I couldn't do before... yay
2018-10-24T19:06:04 < aandrew> a lot of this ITAR shit is ridiculous
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2018-10-24T19:14:51 < kakimir> wher is our favourite "troll"
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2018-10-24T19:31:26 < fenugrec> englishman, digikey charging you what tax ? QST ?
2018-10-24T19:31:34 < englishman> yea
2018-10-24T19:31:46 < fenugrec> why would they not charge it
2018-10-24T19:32:31 < englishman> because they have no presence in quebec
2018-10-24T19:32:35 < englishman> and no qst number
2018-10-24T19:33:11 < fenugrec> yea, you should "in theory" declare and pay it anyway, no ?
2018-10-24T19:33:15 < englishman> sure
2018-10-24T19:33:19 < fenugrec> like any good citizen
2018-10-24T19:33:21 < englishman> then i file taxes to get a refund
2018-10-24T19:33:27 < fenugrec> but I see your point
2018-10-24T19:33:32 < englishman> and revenue quebec says hmm, they have no qst number
2018-10-24T19:34:19 < fenugrec> hah ! wonder how DK balance their books -- "hmm, so we collected x M$ in QST this year, but we're not actually forwarding it to RQ, so ??? profit !"
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2018-10-24T19:38:16 < englishman> Happy Cat Sitting In Box is a candidate for inclusion in Unicode 12.0 scheduled for release in 2019 and was added to draft Emoji 12.0 in 2018.
2018-10-24T19:45:51 < englishman> fenugrec are you in long gay
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2018-10-24T19:46:31 < fenugrec> nop, near Qc
2018-10-24T19:46:51 < englishman> what brings you to stm32
2018-10-24T19:47:26 < fenugrec> stm32, when there is any to be found
2018-10-24T19:47:47 < englishman> typically opensores compiler chats take the most chat time because it has the most problems
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2018-10-24T20:13:42 < aandrew> hm, how the hell do I tell segger which reset type to use
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2018-10-24T20:30:07 < aandrew> there we go
2018-10-24T20:30:58 < aandrew> nrf52 can be "bricked" if you erase everything. this also erases FICR bits, a few of which control the internal regulator. when this happens it defaults to 1.8V vout and apparently the reset line is not pulled up strongly enough to recover from this alone
2018-10-24T20:31:37 < aandrew> so you put a 100 ohm resistor pullup on reset, use segger with variable vtref support to either program FICR correctly or just do what I do and flash a program that the first thing it does is update FICR and reboot if it sees they're at defaults
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2018-10-24T20:46:53 < catphish> morning
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2018-10-24T21:18:54 < aandrew> man I gotta get in the dev board business
2018-10-24T21:19:16 < aandrew> LT2387 dev board with a tiny FPGA on it spitting out a parallel bus: $300
2018-10-24T21:19:30 < aandrew> a really shitty USB 2.0 FS (not HS) capture board for that? another $300
2018-10-24T21:19:53 < aandrew> with an FT245 and a bigass xilinx and memory to do buffering instead of just using an FX2LP to shit it out live
2018-10-24T21:21:55 < jpa-> people who don't care about the price buy the manufacturer's expensive demo board; people who care about price wouldn't pay $30 and the volume probably isn't enough to make it worthwhile
2018-10-24T21:27:27 < aandrew> I agree
2018-10-24T21:27:32 < aandrew> it's a good market to be in
2018-10-24T21:27:47 < aandrew> because like you said, most companies wont' care about the price, they just need something *now* to play with
2018-10-24T21:28:05 < aandrew> AND it's going to be finger-fucked and abused so there are no warranty claims.
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2018-10-24T21:50:37 < catphish> aandrew: does sound like a decent business model, i often want to play with a specific IC, dev boards are crazy expensive but often worth it because you just want to get on with developing
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2018-10-24T22:43:03 < catphish> crt: can i make you a calming mug of tea?
2018-10-24T22:48:02 < catphish> surely the only people in the world who would wish harm on those particular people are *in* america :) they do seem to be due a civil war though
2018-10-24T22:49:27 < catphish> my only thought about american politics is that i can't understand why conservatives would vote for a leader who repeatedly and unapologetically lies
2018-10-24T22:49:52 < catphish> i get that people disagree on policies, but surely there are better choices of leader
2018-10-24T22:50:58 < catphish> clearly some do
2018-10-24T22:51:48 < catphish> i like voting, we have pretty diverse set of choices here in the UK
2018-10-24T22:52:50 < catphish> i couldn't tolerate a polarized 2-party system like the US has, i really hope we don't end up in the same place
2018-10-24T22:53:38 < catphish> that's sad, i'm not a fan of leaders, wish there was more focus on policy
2018-10-24T22:54:04 < catphish> but sadly leaders are what wins elections :(
2018-10-24T22:55:25 < catphish> the final parts for my pnp will arrive this weekend, i are excited
2018-10-24T22:56:49 < catphish> 1) i have absolutely no idea 2) no, budget
2018-10-24T22:57:13 < catphish> hopefully performance will be adequate, but i won't know til its build
2018-10-24T22:57:34 < catphish> lots of parts designed, just waiting for some other parts from china
2018-10-24T22:57:36 < catphish> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3166561
2018-10-24T22:57:55 < catphish> and http://www.weefin.com/crab/image/2018/10/22/6a26b2ad4894c1a987a189ee4934c930.png
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2018-10-24T23:35:33 < BrainDamage> hello steven
2018-10-24T23:35:40 < BrainDamage> trolled sufficiently today?
2018-10-24T23:35:49 < BrainDamage> or do you need more catchphrases?
2018-10-24T23:36:07 < zyp> sup?
2018-10-24T23:36:22 < zyp> \o
2018-10-24T23:43:20 < Steffanx> Stvn does not troll.
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2018-10-24T23:55:11 < antto> maybe there's braille on the red button saying "red"
2018-10-24T23:55:20 < zyp> haha, nice
2018-10-24T23:55:45 < zyp> I had to double check that it actually says «red» and not «left» or something
2018-10-24T23:56:15 < zyp> the top line also says green
2018-10-24T23:56:16 < antto> disclaimer: i only read the last two sentences
--- Day changed Thu Oct 25 2018
2018-10-25T00:05:39 < zyp> I got a new toy today
2018-10-25T00:06:03 < zyp> makita dtm51z (looks like it's sold as xmt03z in other countries)
2018-10-25T00:06:28 < zyp> https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/XMT03Z
2018-10-25T00:10:23 < zyp> yup
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2018-10-25T00:46:29 < zyp> yeah, I used a Fein multimaster a lot when I worked as an electrician
2018-10-25T00:46:41 < zyp> but that one was corded, not battery powered
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2018-10-25T02:52:34 < friendofafriend> I see a seasoning shaker and what I believe is a Roku remote.
2018-10-25T02:53:52 < friendofafriend> But there are some screws on the end that could be deadly, when that poultry seasoning blows.
2018-10-25T03:01:45 < friendofafriend> With the money they saved on postage, you'd think they could do better.  Those are the new "Cackling Hillary" Forever Stamps?
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2018-10-25T03:09:54 < friendofafriend> You have to supply your own 18650s at that price, right?
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2018-10-25T03:28:50 < englishman> LM7805 and done
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2018-10-25T06:18:52 < marble_visions> mawk: what mcu exactly are you trying to port to? there are a few unmainlined repos with support from m0.. m0plus is already officially supported via the microbit runtime
2018-10-25T06:19:34 < marble_visions> s/support from m0/support for m0/
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2018-10-25T06:40:38 < khazi> How to configure stm32l1 to enter into a standby mode?
2018-10-25T06:49:45 < khazi> I learned document did used HAL library but seem not entering into a stand by mode
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2018-10-25T08:06:19 < englishman> Steffanx: this Peugeot is seriously nice
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2018-10-25T09:51:55 < mawk> marble_visions m3 I think
2018-10-25T09:52:18 < mawk> I'll ask some guy from adacore about what is the most relevant
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2018-10-25T10:47:55 < marble_visions> mawk: so that should be stm32f1 series? alright. share if you've found anything interesting
2018-10-25T10:51:26 < mawk> yes marble_visions
2018-10-25T10:51:41 < mawk> well I've not found anything, that's why I'll port the runtime to it
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2018-10-25T11:28:34 < Ecco_> Hi :)
2018-10-25T11:29:13 < Ecco_> I need to code a function that takes an int and outputs another int, according to a given table (i.e. it's not really algorithmic)
2018-10-25T11:29:34 < Ecco_> yep, exactly
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2018-10-25T11:33:42 < Ecco_> problem is, the input domain is very large
2018-10-25T11:34:09 < Ecco_> (the output domain is "compact" (if we need to output N possible values, output domain will be [0,N[)
2018-10-25T11:34:22 < Ecco_> table is not that big (~200 items)
2018-10-25T11:34:27 < Ecco_> but could grow rather big
2018-10-25T11:34:40 < Ecco_> I'm sure I'm not the only dude wondering about "sparse" LUT
2018-10-25T11:35:18 < Ecco_> well, the way I usually code LUT is by using a dumb array
2018-10-25T11:35:22 < Ecco_> yeah
2018-10-25T11:35:33 < Ecco_> problem here, the index could range from 0 to 2^32
2018-10-25T11:35:42 < Ecco_> so that wouldn't work out well
2018-10-25T11:36:33 < Ecco_> hmm
2018-10-25T11:37:33 < Ecco_> ok I found a solution to my problem
2018-10-25T11:37:41 < Ecco_> I think I worded it poorly
2018-10-25T11:38:07 < Ecco_> it's not really that
2018-10-25T11:38:20 < Ecco_> :-D
2018-10-25T11:38:48 < Ecco_> f(i) shall return 0 for all i between 0 and 2^32
2018-10-25T11:38:51 < zyp> I'd say that a 200 item one-dimensional table is not really big
2018-10-25T11:38:55 < Ecco_> except for a few, randomly distributed ones
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2018-10-25T11:39:26 < Ecco_> zyp: yeah, it's acceptable. I think I can just store a [i,f(i)] table
2018-10-25T11:41:35 < Ecco_> a pre-determined, arbitrary value
2018-10-25T11:41:48 < zyp> depending on what speed/space complexity you need, you have a bunch of approaches
2018-10-25T11:42:15 < zyp> a full table is naturally too big when the input range is 2**32
2018-10-25T11:43:08 < zyp> a table of [i,f(i)] and a linear search is the simplest but slowest approach to a sparse table
2018-10-25T11:43:23 < zyp> fine if it's fast enough
2018-10-25T11:43:44 < zyp> otherwise you can do something like a hashmap or a binary tree or something
2018-10-25T11:44:00 < Ecco_> indeed. Spot on zyp. Thanks!
2018-10-25T11:44:23 < Ecco_> well I guess I could use dichotomy on the table
2018-10-25T11:47:06 < zyp> are the values of i with a nonzero f(i) well defined, or do they change?
2018-10-25T11:48:13 < Ecco_> the table is a compile-time constant
2018-10-25T11:48:53 < zyp> Haohmaru, no RAM involved, only flash
2018-10-25T11:49:02 < Ecco_> Haohmaru: well, I guess it's always possible
2018-10-25T11:49:08 < Ecco_> but I'd like to avoid going that way
2018-10-25T11:50:21 < Ecco_> WTF is this smiley :-D
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2018-10-25T11:54:52 < jpa-> [i,f(i)] and binary search seems simplest
2018-10-25T11:55:49 < Ecco> yep, exactly what I settled on
2018-10-25T11:55:54 < Ecco> thanks guys, by the way :)
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2018-10-25T12:23:54 < jadew> hi
2018-10-25T12:24:39 < jadew> you can't possibly know about my project, cuz I didn't talk about it, but I'm currently waiting for parts and some samples
2018-10-25T12:24:53 < jadew> and because UPS is fucking stupid, they're asking me to pay VAT for samples, again
2018-10-25T12:25:00 < jadew> and I don't want to...
2018-10-25T12:26:23 < jadew> it's not much, but I don't like being cheated
2018-10-25T12:31:55 < karlp> jadew: I had to pay vat for a prize :) it's awesome
2018-10-25T12:32:47 < jadew> that's even worse
2018-10-25T12:38:18 < karlp> englishman: I remember looking at a peugot grinder once and going a) who thought this was a good use of a brand? and b) they want how fucking much for it?!
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2018-10-25T12:50:18 < jadew> I told the UPS guy that if he wants VAT from me, he'll have to tell me based on which law, because from what I'm reading samples are exempt from that
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2018-10-25T13:24:59 < zyp> jadew, same here
2018-10-25T13:25:34 < zyp> but having it processed correctly requires that they are properly declared as samples by the sender
2018-10-25T13:26:34 < zyp> norwegian law also requires them to be of insignificant value
2018-10-25T13:27:04 < zyp> with no strict definition on what insignificant means
2018-10-25T13:34:01 < jadew> zyp, yeah, it says SAMPLES on the invoice they sent
2018-10-25T13:34:22 < jadew> the only problem is they also added a price to it ~ $40, but I didn't pay for that
2018-10-25T13:34:48 < jadew> and I submited a declaration in which I state that I paid nothing
2018-10-25T13:35:14 < zyp> doesn't matter who paid, VAT is calculated on value
2018-10-25T13:35:39 < jadew> yeah, should be exempt anyway
2018-10-25T13:36:23 < jadew> FedEx never asked me for anything, they just delivered them to my door
2018-10-25T13:37:07 < jadew> and DHL, with all their downsides, they still handle them properly if you say they're samples
2018-10-25T13:38:10 < zyp> I recently discovered that norway customs now got an online form to get refunded incorrectly paid VAT
2018-10-25T13:39:28 < jadew> nice, I'd probably waste way too much time if I tried to recover VAT from previous samples
2018-10-25T13:39:47 < jadew> it's not much, but the thought that they're forcing me to pay when I shouldn't buggs me a lot
2018-10-25T13:40:27 < zyp> yeah, last time I had to pay too much VAT I also figured it'd take too much time to get it back, but then the new form didn't exist
2018-10-25T13:41:06 < zyp> so I figured I'll just compensate by cheating a bit with the VAT so I pay less on other shit
2018-10-25T13:41:42 < jadew> heh
2018-10-25T13:48:46 < zyp> I walked through a bathroom store yesterday, saw they had a bathtub dongs would like
2018-10-25T13:48:49 < zyp> https://images.finncdn.no/dynamic/480x480c/2018/4/vertical-5/06/l/nul/l_328419390.jpg
2018-10-25T13:49:13 < zyp> https://megaflis.no/celeste-verona-badekar-hoyrestilt.html
2018-10-25T14:17:47  * karlp seds to glory
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2018-10-25T14:38:02 < zyp> "hey, which tiles do you want? tile guy got deals with these two companies so you can pick whatever you want from them up to this price per m2"
2018-10-25T14:38:25 < zyp> I hate having to make decisions like this, there's too fucking many options :p
2018-10-25T14:39:23 < jpa-> when we had to choose tiles last year, they only had different shades of gray in different sizes
2018-10-25T14:39:31 < jpa-> apparently colors are out of fashion
2018-10-25T14:40:06 < zyp> yeah, looks like shades of gray or brown mostly
2018-10-25T14:40:11 < zyp> but tons of textures and shit
2018-10-25T14:40:15 < karlp> heh, reminds me of when we bought our couch, "do you have any colour other than grey or blakc?" "people only buy grey or black" "you're only offerign grey and black!"
2018-10-25T14:40:29 < Ecco> well, for some reason there's little demand for pink tiles
2018-10-25T14:40:44 < zyp> Cracki, she's gonna say "whatever, take care of it"
2018-10-25T14:41:09 < zyp> Ecco, my parents have pink tiles in the shower
2018-10-25T14:41:19 < Ecco> I didn't say "no demand" :-D
2018-10-25T14:41:38 < zyp> Cracki, ton of various textures
2018-10-25T14:42:41 < zyp> heh, they have tiles looking like wood: https://modena.no/produkt/faro-beige/
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2018-10-25T14:47:34 < zyp> I think I wanna have two kinds in the hallway
2018-10-25T14:48:01 < jpa-> i read: "I wanna have two kids in the hallway"
2018-10-25T14:48:07 < zyp> a darker kind right inside the door and a lighter kind for the rest of the hallway, to mark where is shoes area and where is socks area
2018-10-25T14:48:21 < jpa-> that's a good use for kids
2018-10-25T14:52:12 < qyx_> lol two kids
2018-10-25T14:52:27 < qyx_> same here
2018-10-25T15:05:18 < PaulFertser> Haohmaru: no, and also thumb2 has some 32bit opcodes.
2018-10-25T15:13:30 < qyx_> anyone tried the can bootloader?
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2018-10-25T15:15:37 < zyp> Haohmaru, a 16-bit instruction is necessarily less complex than a 32-bit instruction, since the instruction encoding has less space for information
2018-10-25T15:16:18 < zyp> which means that various operations that could be performed by one 32-bit instruction might take several 16-bit instructions
2018-10-25T15:16:50 < zyp> what is a matter of what?
2018-10-25T15:17:31 < zyp> the classic 32-bit instructions are called arm mode
2018-10-25T15:17:55 < zyp> and like PaulFertser says, there's also thumb2 with 32-bit instructions
2018-10-25T15:17:58 < zyp> anyway
2018-10-25T15:18:08 < zyp> no, you don't put anything
2018-10-25T15:18:27 < zyp> but anyway, the limiting factor here is which opcodes does your cpu understand
2018-10-25T15:19:04 < zyp> cortex-m doesn't implement arm mode, they are all thumb/thumb2
2018-10-25T15:19:47 < karlp> if you're reading shit that says thumb mode ties the compilers hands, you're reading shit.
2018-10-25T15:19:49 < qyx_> atmels arm7tdmi were pain
2018-10-25T15:19:52 < zyp> on a modern compiler, if you put -mcpu=cortex-m4, compiler automatically sets the mode appropriate for instructions supported by M4
2018-10-25T15:19:58 < qyx_> you could run thumb, but interrupts were arm
2018-10-25T15:20:12 < zyp> qyx_, not given by LSB in the vector?
2018-10-25T15:20:24 < zyp> or would you need trampolines to switch to thumb?
2018-10-25T15:20:31 < karlp> 32bit isa's aren't necessarily better, they could be wasting space too.
2018-10-25T15:20:34 < qyx_> I don't recall now, it was long time ago
2018-10-25T15:20:51 < zyp> Haohmaru, either way, you are overthinking it
2018-10-25T15:21:08 < zyp> just set -mcpu right and let the compiler do the rest of the job
2018-10-25T15:21:13 < karlp> Haohmaru: smaller instructions means you can fit more of them in caches too, it's definitely not some stupid "bigger better, smaller worse"
2018-10-25T15:21:54 < zyp> m7 does
2018-10-25T15:21:54 < karlp> iirc, gcc7+ finalyl stops needing -mthumb when cpu is given as cortex-m
2018-10-25T15:22:18 < karlp> Haohmaru: thumb is on more than cortex-m, and small/compact isa variants arne't arm specific
2018-10-25T15:22:19 < zyp> karlp, idk what gcc I have, but it certainly doesn't need -mthumb anymore
2018-10-25T15:22:36 < karlp> migth hve been earlier, I remeber being so annoyed by it :)
2018-10-25T15:23:03 < karlp> like, when they stopped requiing you to specificy "fix-ldrsdr-errata" compile time switch, why it wasn't done at the same time there.
2018-10-25T15:23:08 < zyp> ah, I've got 7-2017-q4-major
2018-10-25T15:23:12 < zyp> 7.2.1
2018-10-25T15:23:46 < zyp> it's not all about cache though
2018-10-25T15:24:08 < zyp> 16-bit instructions are fetched two at a time assuming a 32-bit memory bus
2018-10-25T15:24:09 < karlp> no, jsut mentioned it as another thing that can skew simplistic interpretations of what isa size implies
2018-10-25T15:24:26 < zyp> helps in case of bus contention
2018-10-25T15:24:45 < zyp> e.g. when you're both executing and grabbing .rodata from flash
2018-10-25T15:25:05 < karlp> I've seen some metrics for x86 stuff where the new avx shit instructions were faster per call, but performed worse in operation because of things like cache line sizes
2018-10-25T15:25:19 < zyp> yeah
2018-10-25T15:25:36 < karlp> that's without having just straight up compiler bugs :)
2018-10-25T15:25:39 < zyp> instructions that does more doesn't really help unless they do it faster :)
2018-10-25T15:25:50 < Thorn> I read it like this: "e.g. when you've been executed for grabbing .rodata from flash"
2018-10-25T15:26:03 < karlp> mips has a mips16 mode, that's been fairly notoriosuly bad at getting compiled properly.
2018-10-25T15:26:09 < zyp> why the fuck are everybody reading everything I write wrong today?
2018-10-25T15:26:17 < Thorn> need to sleep more
2018-10-25T15:26:26 < Thorn> and at night
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2018-10-25T15:27:40 < Steffanx> Lol
2018-10-25T15:28:18 < Steffanx> Did you try the red button yet?
2018-10-25T15:28:59 < BrainDamage> is the button smooth or not?
2018-10-25T15:29:03 -!- PeterM [bgdwiepp@115-69-25-80-cpe.spintel.net.au] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-25T15:29:25 < BrainDamage> and what happens if you press both?
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2018-10-25T15:41:32 < kakimir> https://thedailywtf.com/articles/longer-isn-t-better
2018-10-25T15:41:47 < englishman> karlp: ultimate grinding performance
2018-10-25T15:42:43 < Steffanx> Peugeot :)
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2018-10-25T15:45:56 < Steffanx> Just ask here politely, crt
2018-10-25T15:48:33 < Steffanx> Nope, my throttle is still on the parking lot.
2018-10-25T15:51:26 < zyp> LOWESR
2018-10-25T15:53:21 < zyp> "you can pump more"
2018-10-25T15:53:22 < zyp> 7:34
2018-10-25T15:53:30 < Steffanx> Haha yes. I heard that too
2018-10-25T15:53:40 < Steffanx> No zeniers or recitifiers?
2018-10-25T16:28:10 < catphish> the size of my ring is now in front of you
2018-10-25T16:29:44 < aandrew> heh throttle
2018-10-25T16:30:42 < aandrew> man this is like listening to a google translated text
2018-10-25T16:30:58 < aandrew> heh that no load was 100mA not 10mA
2018-10-25T16:31:31 < aandrew> also that output test shows 4.3V 2.48A in, 5.3V 1.024A out... wtf?
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2018-10-25T17:14:08 < Steffanx> aandrew, wasnt it you once with f0 and something dma related being slow?
2018-10-25T17:14:47 < BrainDamage> grind
2018-10-25T17:14:56 < aandrew> not me no
2018-10-25T17:14:59 < Steffanx> hm
2018-10-25T17:15:01 < BrainDamage> bleh, that wasn't the search box
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2018-10-25T17:15:16 < Steffanx> You forgot the r anyway, BrainDamage  :P
2018-10-25T17:15:56 < BrainDamage> no, was curious of the 'peugot grinder'
2018-10-25T17:16:58 < Steffanx> i wonder if englishman  has this one too: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Peugeot_coffee_grinder.jpg
2018-10-25T17:17:11 < Steffanx> Grinding oldskoo
2018-10-25T17:17:12 < Steffanx> l
2018-10-25T17:17:15 < englishman> no that style makes terrible coffee
2018-10-25T17:17:26 < BrainDamage> I have a manual coffee grinder, I use it for spices
2018-10-25T17:20:36 < Steffanx> i just use pre-grinded stuff
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2018-10-25T17:39:47 < zyp> does your car have pre-grinded gears?
2018-10-25T17:42:16 < Steffanx> i love you too, zyp
2018-10-25T17:45:22 < zyp> <3
2018-10-25T17:48:51 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boBK7IQ@c-73-193-6-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2018-10-25T17:53:37 < qyx_> installing anything on rpi is pain
2018-10-25T17:54:00 < zyp> any more so than any other SBC?
2018-10-25T17:54:19 < Steffanx> any more so than any other lunix system?
2018-10-25T17:54:21 < qyx_> if it ran windows it woul d be faster surely
2018-10-25T17:54:22 < Steffanx> ^fixed it
2018-10-25T17:55:12 < qyx_> (no irony)
2018-10-25T17:55:50 < Steffanx> What kind of obscure sw are you trying to get running anyway?
2018-10-25T17:56:32 < qyx_> vlc
2018-10-25T17:56:40 < qyx_> it took 5 minutes so far
2018-10-25T17:56:59 < qyx_> I mean from the speed point of view, not the complexity
2018-10-25T17:58:00 < qyx_> also, my rpi eink failed recently
2018-10-25T17:58:40 < qyx_> it fails to refresh fully, there are distorted hrizontal lines in the lower half of the display
2018-10-25T17:59:14 < qyx_> and I did nothing, it was just set to refresh every 5 minutes
2018-10-25T18:05:36 < englishman> canadian field trip https://i.imgur.com/mhyJQAt.jpg
2018-10-25T18:06:22 < englishman> which display qyx_ do you have any spares
2018-10-25T18:09:24 < mawk> marble_visions: did you answer something ? I lost my logs
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2018-10-25T18:45:33 < qyx_> englishman: waveshare 2.13"
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2018-10-25T19:35:35 < kakimir> product prototype sample I ordered from factory has small solder balls on pcb
2018-10-25T19:35:52 < kakimir> floating around
2018-10-25T19:36:05 < kakimir> I assume those are from one big pad
2018-10-25T19:36:43 < kakimir> 2 off those balls were right at edge of that smd connector
2018-10-25T19:38:52 < kakimir> maybe the stencil is too big
2018-10-25T19:38:57 < kakimir> for that pad
2018-10-25T19:39:02 < kakimir> englishman: what are your thoughts?
2018-10-25T19:40:32 < kakimir> maybe it's the heat profile
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2018-10-25T19:45:46 < antto> kakimir bare PCB or assembled?
2018-10-25T19:45:54 < kakimir> assembled
2018-10-25T19:46:07 < kakimir> certainly dick'n'placed
2018-10-25T19:46:48 < antto> i think i read that small balls can happen if there's splodges of paste on the PCB, or if some solder paste turns into a bubble and pops
2018-10-25T19:47:07 < kakimir> hmm
2018-10-25T19:47:19 < kakimir> in that pad iirc. I have 4 squares
2018-10-25T19:47:23 < kakimir> in stencil
2018-10-25T19:47:27 < Steffanx> kakimir, cant you ask your factory? Is what they should know
2018-10-25T19:47:31 < Steffanx> if not they suck and you need a new one.
2018-10-25T19:47:36 < Steffanx> *it's
2018-10-25T19:47:40 < antto> or.. maybe also if there's too much paste on certain pads, it can grow balls nearby
2018-10-25T19:47:41 < kakimir> I just want to do my homework
2018-10-25T19:47:49 < kakimir> certainly it is in my feedback list
2018-10-25T19:47:58 < Steffanx> "homework" = asking englishman ? :D
2018-10-25T19:48:04 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-25T19:48:16 < Steffanx> His cats will eat your homework
2018-10-25T19:48:24 < kakimir> antto: have you done stuff?
2018-10-25T19:48:32 < antto> don't you have to invite englishman at yer home first?
2018-10-25T19:48:48 < kakimir> I need to invite him to my workplace
2018-10-25T19:49:29 < antto> kakimir no, but i read a bunch of stuff on a nifty website covering (in introductory-level) everything from PCB production, to paste, to component assembly
2018-10-25T19:49:47 < antto> including the common problems here and there
2018-10-25T19:50:35 < antto> and there were pics of "tinxgonwong" with solder balls at random places (or not so random places)
2018-10-25T19:51:14 < kakimir> is board concidered a failure when there is solder balls?
2018-10-25T19:51:33 < kakimir> I counted 3 balls
2018-10-25T19:51:52 < kakimir> how about board washing?
2018-10-25T19:53:29 < kakimir> I need a flowchart tool
2018-10-25T19:53:41 < kakimir> I need to make a flowchart
2018-10-25T19:53:42 < Steffanx> draw.io? Visio?
2018-10-25T19:53:54 < kakimir> to coffee room fridge
2018-10-25T19:53:56 < antto> http://www.surfacemountprocess.com/reflow-soldering-process.html
2018-10-25T19:54:00 < antto> i think it woz here
2018-10-25T19:54:33 < kakimir> what I'm really suprized of is how well the attiny20 sits
2018-10-25T19:54:44 < Steffanx> attiny...
2018-10-25T19:54:50 < antto> don't say that, kakimir :/
2018-10-25T19:54:59 < antto> didn't u learn anything here
2018-10-25T19:55:05 < kakimir> really small package and stuff
2018-10-25T19:55:10 < antto> say "the chip"
2018-10-25T19:55:14 < kakimir> made footprint myself
2018-10-25T19:55:20 < antto> wut
2018-10-25T19:55:21 < antto> why?
2018-10-25T19:55:24 < antto> >:(
2018-10-25T19:55:28 < kakimir> atmel doesn't provide any
2018-10-25T19:55:34 < antto> eh?
2018-10-25T19:55:38 < antto> kicad!
2018-10-25T19:55:52 < Steffanx> "one should always make his own foot prints"
2018-10-25T19:55:54 < antto> use the library
2018-10-25T19:56:06 < kakimir> good luck with the library
2018-10-25T19:56:11 < antto> why?
2018-10-25T19:56:24 < antto> is it an eggzotic package?
2018-10-25T19:56:29 < kakimir> yes?
2018-10-25T19:57:30 < antto> ah, here's the page with them ballz: http://www.surfacemountprocess.com/a-guide-to-effective-stencil-design.html
2018-10-25T19:57:42 < antto> scroll down a bit
2018-10-25T19:57:44 < kakimir> kicad default library literally lacks all the semiconductor packages I use
2018-10-25T19:57:59 < kakimir> be it mcu, sot transistor package or regulator
2018-10-25T19:57:59 < antto> wut
2018-10-25T19:58:07 < antto> no way
2018-10-25T19:58:14 < antto> give me eggzamples
2018-10-25T19:58:24 < kakimir> sot523
2018-10-25T19:58:38 < Steffanx> what kind of eggs do you prefer antto ?
2018-10-25T19:58:40 < antto> now now, wtf is that kakimir
2018-10-25T19:58:59 < Steffanx> and how you prefer your eggs? 
2018-10-25T19:59:09 < antto> eggstra large
2018-10-25T20:00:25 < kakimir> antto: nice size transistor?
2018-10-25T20:00:42 < kakimir> sot23 is like.. huge
2018-10-25T20:01:31 < kakimir> but I would preffer sot23 always when there is no size restriction
2018-10-25T20:01:54 < antto> okay, f*ck this transistor
2018-10-25T20:02:02 < antto> tell me bout the mcu
2018-10-25T20:02:56 < kakimir> non-standard QFN
2018-10-25T20:03:29 < zyp> today I didn't take any pics at the house
2018-10-25T20:03:34 < zyp> but I went to look at tiles: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/e2yiM.jpg
2018-10-25T20:04:06 < kakimir> everything was expensives?
2018-10-25T20:04:15 < zyp> no, those are fine
2018-10-25T20:04:41 < kakimir> design tiles are like dozens of euros each
2018-10-25T20:04:48 < kakimir> that is mad
2018-10-25T20:04:54 < zyp> these are like 25 EUR per m2
2018-10-25T20:06:33 < kakimir> that sounds inexpensive
2018-10-25T20:06:55 < zyp> this was like 50% off
2018-10-25T20:07:08 < kakimir> so something like 500eur worth of wall tiling?
2018-10-25T20:07:22 < kakimir> floor 200-300eur?
2018-10-25T20:09:26 < zyp> not gonna have any tiled walls
2018-10-25T20:09:53 < kakimir> those look like wall tiling?
2018-10-25T20:10:25 < kakimir> those are like long and big
2018-10-25T20:11:01 < zyp> they can be used for either
2018-10-25T20:11:17 < zyp> I was thinking 30x60cm on hallway floor and 20x20cm in bathrooms
2018-10-25T20:11:27 < kakimir> idea of small floor tiles is simple
2018-10-25T20:11:46 < kakimir> impact resistance
2018-10-25T20:12:32 < zyp> meh
2018-10-25T20:12:35 < kakimir> maybe aspect ratio of tile has something to do with it
2018-10-25T20:12:47 < kakimir> thickness - length
2018-10-25T20:12:48 < zyp> large floor tiles are common
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2018-10-25T20:14:33 < emeb> If you don't tile the walls you'll need to keep buying plastic tarps for your murder room.
2018-10-25T20:14:36 < englishman> kakimir: i start to get solder balls when the paste is getting old
2018-10-25T20:14:39 < englishman> or if it's shit paste
2018-10-25T20:14:41 < englishman> or too much paste
2018-10-25T20:14:44 < zyp> emeb, walls are paneled
2018-10-25T20:14:53 < englishman> or pressing the part down squishes some paste out and it has nowhere to flow
2018-10-25T20:15:00 < zyp> ref. https://bin.jvnv.net/file/EizFc.jpg
2018-10-25T20:15:08 < englishman> are they screamproof?
2018-10-25T20:16:21 < zyp> haven't tested yet
2018-10-25T20:16:50 < emeb> zyp: pseudo-tile murder room^h^h^h^h shower
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2018-10-25T20:17:25 < emeb> or is that the laundry room?
2018-10-25T20:18:07 < zyp> yes
2018-10-25T20:18:27 < emeb> With floor drain - that's thinking ahead.
2018-10-25T20:20:16 < zyp> is that not common over there?
2018-10-25T20:22:34 < englishman> sent request to digikey demanding they reimburse 14 years of illegally collected tax
2018-10-25T20:22:39 < englishman> lets see where that goes
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2018-10-25T20:28:55 < zyp> why are digikey collecting tax?
2018-10-25T20:29:24 < englishman> they provide customs brokering on incoming packages
2018-10-25T20:29:36 < englishman> so there are no delays or additional fees on import
2018-10-25T20:31:17 < khazi> : Hello need help with using sim7000e nb-iot module, does any one knows here?
2018-10-25T20:32:55 < zyp> does it have anything to do with stm32?
2018-10-25T20:34:04 < emeb> zyp: floor drains in the laundry / utility area are not very common here in the US.
2018-10-25T20:34:33 < emeb> So when my water heater springs a leak it floods the house.
2018-10-25T20:35:01 < zyp> that sounds inconvenient :)
2018-10-25T20:35:09 < emeb> yes
2018-10-25T20:35:43 < emeb> in lieu of real drains they'll sometimes put a little pan under the heater with a pipe to outside.
2018-10-25T20:35:49 < zyp> most rooms with water except the kitchen tends to have drains here
2018-10-25T20:36:20 < BrainDamage> here floor drains are uncommon too, it sucks
2018-10-25T20:36:42 < zyp> and apparently now there's more or less a requirement to have automatic shut off on leaks in rooms that doesn't have a drain
2018-10-25T20:37:08 < emeb> interesting. what triggers that?
2018-10-25T20:37:10 < zyp> so I think I'm getting a solenoid valve with some leak sensing stuff in my kitchen counter
2018-10-25T20:38:34 < emeb> sounds fun
2018-10-25T20:38:52 < emeb> "Honey I splashed some soup and now the sink is shut down again"
2018-10-25T20:38:52 < zyp> https://img.prisguiden.no/1388/1388872/original.jpg <- shit like this
2018-10-25T20:39:04 < zyp> haha
2018-10-25T20:39:29 < qyx_> bare wire apparently
2018-10-25T20:39:40 < zyp> yeah, just conductivity
2018-10-25T20:39:44 < qyx_> I meanconductivity
2018-10-25T20:40:03 < zyp> but there are some more advanced systems for the main inlet that monitors flow
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2018-10-25T20:40:24 < zyp> apparently they detect small sustained flow like a leaky toilet
2018-10-25T20:40:25 < emeb> GFCI but for water
2018-10-25T20:40:43 < zyp> which can apparently get pretty expensive if you have a water meter
2018-10-25T20:41:10 < zyp> speaking of that, how common are water meters over there?
2018-10-25T20:41:15 < emeb> very
2018-10-25T20:41:30 < emeb> if you're on city water at least
2018-10-25T20:41:39 < qyx_> every single house has one
2018-10-25T20:41:41 < qyx_> and flat
2018-10-25T20:41:59 < zyp> Cracki, yeah, my impression is that most houses in norway doesn't
2018-10-25T20:42:09 < qyx_> interesting
2018-10-25T20:42:12 < emeb> and they're 100% mechanical so we've got dudes that come around every month to read them.
2018-10-25T20:42:23 < zyp> it's common to just pay a fixed water fee
2018-10-25T20:42:24 < qyx_> here they use them to charge for water and also to estimate amount of sewage water
2018-10-25T20:42:35 < emeb> same
2018-10-25T20:42:42 < qyx_> mechanical here too
2018-10-25T20:42:46 < qyx_> most of them
2018-10-25T20:42:49 < emeb> water + sewer + garbage comes in one bill
2018-10-25T20:42:51 < qyx_> some have remote readout
2018-10-25T20:43:07 < zyp> emeb, that much is same here
2018-10-25T20:43:15 < jpa-> here we get charged for rainwater also :P
2018-10-25T20:43:19 < qyx_> here too
2018-10-25T20:43:21 < emeb> water is charged by the gallon, sewer scales w/ water and garbage is flat fee.
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2018-10-25T20:43:29 < qyx_> depending on the size of the roof
2018-10-25T20:43:46 < emeb> wait wat?
2018-10-25T20:43:56 < zyp> haha
2018-10-25T20:44:04 < qyx_> yeah, if your rain water is going to the rain sewage (or how is it called)
2018-10-25T20:44:12 < emeb> oh
2018-10-25T20:44:33 < zyp> that doesn't make much sense
2018-10-25T20:44:40 < emeb> So just for balance, there are places in the US where it's illegal to collect rainwater that falls on your house.
2018-10-25T20:44:55 < emeb> You *must* let it drain to the land / rivers.
2018-10-25T20:44:56 < jpa-> water meters are mechanical here also, but we read them ourselves and just report the reading once a year
2018-10-25T20:45:05 -!- tctw__ [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-25T20:45:12 < emeb> Because "senior water rights" outweigh those of the landowners.
2018-10-25T20:46:07 -!- tctw [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2018-10-25T20:46:26 < zyp> I see my city assumes 150m3 for houses without a water meter
2018-10-25T20:46:35 < emeb> recent news story about dude in Oregon who had a rain barrel on his eavespout - got in trouble with the law.
2018-10-25T20:47:42 -!- tctw [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-25T20:47:51 < zyp> hmm, if you want a water meter, you have to pay an annual rent, which apparently equals the cost of 20m3 water+sewer
2018-10-25T20:48:01 < emeb> heh
2018-10-25T20:48:05 < zyp> so it only makes financially sense to get one if I use less than 130m3 per year
2018-10-25T20:48:15 -!- tctw_ [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2018-10-25T20:48:38 < qyx_> here it is illegal to collect both waste water and rain water in the same drain
2018-10-25T20:48:47 < qyx_> if not allowed explicitly
2018-10-25T20:48:57 < jpa-> i pay 4 EUR per m^3 of cold water (including sewer etc. costs)
2018-10-25T20:49:15 < qyx_> also, it is preferred to collect as much water as possible
2018-10-25T20:49:28 < zyp> jpa-, that's about twice of what it costs here
2018-10-25T20:49:35 < qyx_> ~2.60e here
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2018-10-25T20:49:51 < zyp> here it's 7.69 NOK/m3 for water and 10.59 NOK/m3 for sewer
2018-10-25T20:50:00 < qyx_> 2.60 includes both though
2018-10-25T20:50:08 -!- tctw__ [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2018-10-25T20:50:11 < zyp> and as far as I understand, they assume both are equal
2018-10-25T20:51:33 < jpa-> we use about 80m^3 in a year, though part of that is hot water at 8 EUR/m^3
2018-10-25T20:51:55 < qyx_> emeb: why is it illegal to collect rain water? seems not logical to me
2018-10-25T20:52:20 < englishman> New customers save 15% on their first order with code NEW15. Offer expires on October 26, 2018.
2018-10-25T20:52:20 < englishman> Note: Existing Arrow.com customers do not qualify for savings with this code.
2018-10-25T20:52:22 < englishman> rageee
2018-10-25T20:52:40 < Steffanx> <3
2018-10-25T20:52:55 < emeb> qyx_: in much of the western US there is very little natural water, and the water that flows in the rivers was long ago allocated to various users (cities, farmers, etc)
2018-10-25T20:53:27 < emeb> qyx_: so anyone collecting the water that falls on their property prevents it draining to the rivers and thus violates the already determined allocation.
2018-10-25T20:53:28 -!- tctw [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2018-10-25T20:54:29 < englishman> INVOICE ADDRESS
2018-10-25T20:54:29 < englishman> Default 
2018-10-25T20:54:29 < englishman> Default
2018-10-25T20:54:29 < englishman> Default
2018-10-25T20:54:29 < englishman> Default
2018-10-25T20:54:29 < englishman> Default,  CO 80112
2018-10-25T20:54:33 < englishman> wahat the fuck arrow
2018-10-25T20:54:39 < emeb> jpa-: residential water rates in my city vary from about $0.84/m3 to about 2x that depending on volume used.
2018-10-25T20:54:44 < Streaker> Deqalt
2018-10-25T20:55:11 < Streaker> Small shits
2018-10-25T20:55:13 < jpa-> no wonder you have water shortage with such cheap prices :P
2018-10-25T20:55:24 < emeb> jpa-: yeah - it's really stupid.
2018-10-25T20:55:28 < zyp> I don't know how much water we're using here, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's enough to make it not beneficial to have a water meter :p
2018-10-25T20:55:37 -!- tctw [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-25T20:55:53 < emeb> here we are in a desert and people are putting in huge golf courses and grass lawns.
2018-10-25T20:56:03 < jpa-> finland is full of water that you could basically drink right out of the lake/spring, but maintenance of the pipe network is costly
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2018-10-25T20:56:37 < zyp> jpa-, but why is your water twice as expensive as ours?
2018-10-25T20:56:51 < emeb> better water. nicer pipes
2018-10-25T20:57:00 < zyp> hmm, that said
2018-10-25T20:57:05 < zyp> there's a fixed annual fee too
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2018-10-25T20:58:02 < emeb> jpa-: note that the price I just mentioned is water only - not other utilities lumped in.
2018-10-25T20:58:12 < BrainDamage> here's 1.4€/m^3
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2018-10-25T20:58:48 < BrainDamage> sewer, etc included
2018-10-25T20:58:49 < jpa-> water only for me also, but it includes all the fees (there is some fixed portion but that gets lumped to single payment by the apartment company)
2018-10-25T20:59:52 < jpa-> looks like water price in finland varies 2.6 EUR/m³ to 16.8 EUR/m³, with average being 4.6 EUR/m³.. not sure why it would cost more than zyp's
2018-10-25T21:00:15 < zyp> hmm
2018-10-25T21:00:19 < englishman> our water comes from 80m below the house under a clay bed and we just pump it up with a .7kw pump
2018-10-25T21:00:28 -!- tctw [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2018-10-25T21:00:51 < jpa-> tctw_: you're bouncy today
2018-10-25T21:00:51 < zyp> looks like water, sewer and garbage pickup is gonna cost me about 1050 EUR annually in total
2018-10-25T21:01:18 < englishman> is school tax also rolled into your property tax
2018-10-25T21:01:25 < englishman> cuz here it's about 10x all the city services
2018-10-25T21:01:28 < jpa-> school tax?
2018-10-25T21:01:43 -!- tctw__ [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2018-10-25T21:01:44 < englishman> yeah public schools are financed mostly at a municipal level
2018-10-25T21:01:48 < englishman> thru property tax
2018-10-25T21:01:49 < zyp> I don't think school tax is a thing here
2018-10-25T21:01:57 -!- tctw [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-25T21:02:16 < englishman> snow removal costs about as much as garbage/recycling services too
2018-10-25T21:02:17 < jpa-> here they are financed by municipal income tax
2018-10-25T21:02:38 < BrainDamage> here if you pump ground water, depending on the municipality rules you may have to pay or not for it
2018-10-25T21:02:43 < englishman> emeb gets a great deal on snow removal
2018-10-25T21:03:04 -!- tctw_ [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2018-10-25T21:03:12 < zyp> municipalities here gets both some income tax and property tax, I assume that all feeds into a budget that schools come out of
2018-10-25T21:03:12 < BrainDamage> typically on costal towns it's regulated, where if the water table gets abused, seawater seeps inland and makes a huge mess
2018-10-25T21:03:49 < emeb> englishman: yes!
2018-10-25T21:04:07 -!- tctw_ [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-25T21:04:12 < BrainDamage> instead where I am water is ~free if you can get it
2018-10-25T21:04:21 < emeb> jpa-: looking at last month's utility bill the water+sewer+charges worked out to about $1.50/m3
2018-10-25T21:04:34 < BrainDamage> ( fancy alpine water is essentially my tap water )
2018-10-25T21:05:29 < emeb> so the pricing is still stupidly low compared to European prices.
2018-10-25T21:05:49 < emeb> 'muricans love to leave out the external costs.
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2018-10-25T21:07:25 < BrainDamage> it still boggles my mind that restaurant prices in the US do not include VAT
2018-10-25T21:07:38 < BrainDamage> just ... why
2018-10-25T21:07:41 < englishman> so dumb
2018-10-25T21:07:56 < emeb> we just assume the tax on everything
2018-10-25T21:08:11 < englishman> that takes advantage of american's innate inability to do math
2018-10-25T21:08:18 < emeb> anything you buy will cost 10% more than what's listed.
2018-10-25T21:08:31 < emeb> And of course tipping.
2018-10-25T21:08:33 < BrainDamage> but what's the point then
2018-10-25T21:08:52 < jpa-> in finland it used to be that VAT was different depending on whether you ate there or took the food home; but price with VAT was the same usually, restaurant just ate the difference
2018-10-25T21:09:05 < emeb> In this libertarian / capitalist utopia we place the burden on the masses to figure stuff like that out.
2018-10-25T21:09:16 < emeb> "If you have to ask..."
2018-10-25T21:09:17 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@chl26-1-88-183-104-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-25T21:10:19 < emeb> And - every city has a different local tax rate. So if you live in a metro area the costs vary depending on where you happen to be.
2018-10-25T21:10:59 < emeb> So if I buy a box of cereal at Wal-Mart down the street it costs different than if I drive 10 miles.
2018-10-25T21:11:04 < kakimir> jpa-: if you could change anything in finnish system - what would you change?
2018-10-25T21:11:26 < jpa-> kakimir: 6 vacation days vs. 5 work days
2018-10-25T21:11:40 < kakimir> nice
2018-10-25T21:12:14 < jpa-> (in finland, we work 5 days a week, but for every week of vacation, you need to spend 6 vacation days; and if you don't take full weeks, it gets very random)
2018-10-25T21:12:14 < kakimir> if the trend continues
2018-10-25T21:13:01 < Steffanx> wut
2018-10-25T21:13:06 < kakimir> if the trend continues in 2030 there is work solid 6 days a week
2018-10-25T21:13:21 < Steffanx> What kind of weird fucked up thing is that jpa- ?
2018-10-25T21:13:43 < Steffanx> How many days do a finlander get?
2018-10-25T21:13:46 < Steffanx> vacation days that is
2018-10-25T21:14:02 < kakimir> I use my vacations as days
2018-10-25T21:14:25 < Steffanx> you'll pay for it sooner or later.
2018-10-25T21:14:29 < jpa-> Steffanx: 30 days a year
2018-10-25T21:14:36 < qyx_> englishman: 0.7kW?
2018-10-25T21:14:38 < jpa-> so 5 weeks
2018-10-25T21:14:54 < jpa-> (plus 10 public holidays)
2018-10-25T21:14:57 < englishman> 1 horsepower
2018-10-25T21:14:58 < Steffanx> 10 D:
2018-10-25T21:15:13 -!- kow_ [~afed@135.0.26.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2018-10-25T21:15:16 < kakimir> tell that to muricans jpa
2018-10-25T21:15:18 < qyx_> we have a 70m borehole on the garden too
2018-10-25T21:15:25 < qyx_> with a 250W pump
2018-10-25T21:15:32 < kakimir> they have like 10days total
2018-10-25T21:15:48 < englishman> thing is the 80m hole is about 300m away
2018-10-25T21:16:15 < jpa-> i have 0 days paid vacation a year
2018-10-25T21:16:26 < englishman> same
2018-10-25T21:18:32 < emeb> what is vacation?
2018-10-25T21:18:42 < emeb> is that where you stop working?
2018-10-25T21:19:22 < jpa-> no, it's when instead of working on useless crap on pc you instead start working on building summer cottages or similar
2018-10-25T21:19:44 < emeb> Oh - so it's when the flow of money reverses.
2018-10-25T21:19:54 < jpa-> yeah
2018-10-25T21:23:39 < Steffanx> House dad. Isnt that vacation?
2018-10-25T21:24:45 < jpa-> not really when i still need to provide 90% of our income
2018-10-25T21:25:15 < Steffanx> 7 days/week?
2018-10-25T21:26:01 < jpa-> nah, only work 5 partial days/week nowadays
2018-10-25T21:38:52 < emeb> So here's a fun one (even STM32 related!): Working on a firmware update & recently started using gcc version 7.3.1 20180622. Code that used to work in earlier gcc versions is now broken when optimizing > -O1
2018-10-25T21:40:46 < Steffanx> Always fun
2018-10-25T21:40:56 < emeb> Doing some fancy array indexing math & had some limit checks that the index didn't drop < 0. Worked before, works in -O0 & -O1 but not for -O2/-O3
2018-10-25T21:41:21 < emeb> So I just punted and masked the index to keep it in bounds. :P
2018-10-25T21:41:29 < Steffanx> Fails as in ... ?
2018-10-25T21:41:47 < Steffanx> It does go < 0?
2018-10-25T21:41:49 < emeb> hardfault due to reading illegal address
2018-10-25T21:42:17 < jpa-> emeb: do your limit checks invoke undefined behaviour like signed overflow?
2018-10-25T21:43:11 < emeb> jpa-: I've got an unsigned accumulator with an increment that varies. The top bits of the accumulator are the array index.
2018-10-25T21:43:36 < jpa-> how could that go negative then?
2018-10-25T21:43:51 < emeb> It shouldn't
2018-10-25T21:44:07 < emeb> The increment is derived from a value that can go negative, but I have tests to prevent that.
2018-10-25T21:44:16 < emeb> For some reason those tests seem to be optimized away.
2018-10-25T21:44:47 < jpa-> hard to answer without specific code, but sounds likely that it is undefined somehow
2018-10-25T21:46:06 < emeb> jpa-: the increment is a uint32_t, but the accumulator is uint64_t
2018-10-25T21:46:39 < emeb> I specifically limit the increment to be a positive value as int32_t
2018-10-25T21:46:51 < emeb> that limit seems to be ignored.
2018-10-25T21:47:41 < jpa-> pastebin the code :P
2018-10-25T21:49:21 < Steffanx> Any of you pros has the JBC CD-2BE
2018-10-25T21:49:22 < Steffanx> Or cd-2s
2018-10-25T21:49:28 < zyp> jpa-, that vacation system sounds weird
2018-10-25T21:49:59 < jpa-> zyp: vacation law was made back when work week was 6 days and for some stupid reasons they can't agree to revise it
2018-10-25T21:50:23 < zyp> norwegian system has some similar weirdness
2018-10-25T21:51:34 < Steffanx> So 4 days, 7 hours and 59 seconds gets you around it?
2018-10-25T21:51:47 < Steffanx> Work 1 min from home
2018-10-25T21:52:00 < zyp> I think vacation law states something like minimum 25 days of vacation, but that's also assuming six day weeks
2018-10-25T21:52:17 < zyp> so in practice the legal minimum is 21 vacation days
2018-10-25T21:53:02 < zyp> or rather, in theory the minimum is 21 vacation days
2018-10-25T21:53:20 < zyp> in practice it depends on your job contract
2018-10-25T21:53:42 < Steffanx> I still dont get how it works. When i take two weeks of its just 2x5 days. What is the 6th day? Saturday?
2018-10-25T21:53:55 < zyp> I've had 25 days (i.e. five real weeks) in all previous jobs I've had
2018-10-25T21:53:58 < emeb> jpa-: https://pastebin.com/is7WNTvV
2018-10-25T21:54:09 < emeb> (snipped down to just relevant bits)
2018-10-25T21:54:22 < zyp> this job I tried negotiating the same but boss didn't want to give me more than the 21 days :p
2018-10-25T21:55:19 < Steffanx> Ive 25 which is pretty low compared to many dutchies
2018-10-25T21:56:18 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2018-10-25T21:56:21 < zyp> I don't care too much, I have pretty much completely flexible hours, so I can take off whenever I want as long as I hit my annual amount of hours
2018-10-25T21:56:28 < kakimir> Steffanx: what is wrong with draw.io grid?
2018-10-25T21:56:44 < kakimir> stuff is offset
2018-10-25T21:58:11 < zyp> if I put in 1.5 hours extra each day in a week, that nets me a day I can take off
2018-10-25T21:59:01 < Steffanx> Idk. It works for me. kakimir
2018-10-25T21:59:16 < Steffanx> Using the online version or the desktop one?
2018-10-25T22:01:39 < kakimir> desktop
2018-10-25T22:01:47 < kakimir> I don't like that online rubbish
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2018-10-25T22:09:09 < karlp> cold water is free here, hot water is metered.  (we just got new "smart" hot water meters at our oplace)
2018-10-25T22:09:51 < Steffanx> Here we only have cold water :)
2018-10-25T22:12:57 -!- khazi [~khazi@157.49.247.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2018-10-25T22:18:09 < emeb> that's hilarious.
2018-10-25T22:18:26 < emeb> in geothermal iceland even the hot water should be free!
2018-10-25T22:19:40 < emeb> I once spent the night in a town in the US state of South Dakota where the city water came out of the ground @ 130F.
2018-10-25T22:20:05 < emeb> Everyone had hot water - the hotel pool was "heated" and it was the cold water that was hard to get.
2018-10-25T22:20:20 < karlp> yeah, that's somewhat common in parts of central australia too.
2018-10-25T22:20:52 < karlp> emeb: well, because it's geothermal is the only reason it's even viable to run hot water as a utility
2018-10-25T22:21:07 < emeb> karlp: ;)
2018-10-25T22:22:37 < karlp> ah, coldwater is charged based on house size, pluse a fixed base amount
2018-10-25T22:22:48 < karlp> no option for metering.
2018-10-25T22:23:06 < karlp> sewage is charged same way
2018-10-25T22:23:36 < karlp> hot water is ~1€/m³
2018-10-25T22:25:15 < malinus> karlp: wait, you get hot water delivered into your pipes? We just pay for the energy delivered by the the hot water (kW). The hot water isn't directly used, it's used for heating up the drinking water and the heat-pipes water.
2018-10-25T22:25:40 < karlp> malinus: of course.
2018-10-25T22:25:50 < karlp> (yes, I know that's uncommon, but hey, iceland)
2018-10-25T22:30:41 < Steffanx> Where is CRT when you need him?
2018-10-25T22:31:21 < malinus> We have heat as utlity too, it's just measured as a source of energy. I'm suprised that they pipe hot water into drinking water pipes. Must be very hot to avoid bacterial growth and such. Must keep the delivery high in peak periods too etc.
2018-10-25T22:31:25 < malinus> seems tricky to do it that way
2018-10-25T22:32:01 < jpa-> emeb: if addition on line 39 happens to overflow the int32_t type, or if the shift causes bits to shift to top bit, that's undefined behaviour and all following arithmetic may be inconsistent, including the negativity check on next line
2018-10-25T22:32:29 < jpa-> emeb: you can see if   -fwrapv   solves it
2018-10-25T22:33:12 < karlp> malinus: what do you mean by heat as utility if you're not gettting hot water delivered to you?
2018-10-25T22:33:18 < jpa-> emeb: "The -fstrict-overflow option is enabled at levels -O2, -O3, -Os."  kinda matches what you are seeing
2018-10-25T22:35:51 < malinus> karlp: I'm getting hot water delivered to me, but it's not what I'm using directly. I'm just using the energy (heat), to heat up the clean drinking water from the "cold" water utility. There's just a heat exchanger 
2018-10-25T22:55:30 -!- Hamilton [~Hamilton@unaffiliated/hamilton] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
2018-10-25T23:00:45 < kakimir> https://imgur.com/gallery/4uW74xt "munat jäivät lauteiden väliin"
2018-10-25T23:01:42 < englishman> many buildings in downtown vancouver and montreal are still heated by steam from a central boiler building
2018-10-25T23:02:04 < Steffanx> kyllä kylläm kakimir
2018-10-25T23:02:39 < kakimir> "testicles got stuck between sauna bench planks"
2018-10-25T23:02:59 < Steffanx> happens to humans too kakimir : https://media.dumpert.nl/foto/8f5529ae_Only_happens_in_Miami.jpg.jpg (semi-nsfw)
2018-10-25T23:03:31 < Steffanx> inb4 .jpg.jpg
2018-10-25T23:04:21 < englishman> 403 forbidden
2018-10-25T23:04:36 < englishman> is dumpert the dutch 8chan
2018-10-25T23:05:44 < Steffanx> idk what 8chan is exactly to be honest, i never visit.
2018-10-25T23:05:58 < Steffanx> but it could be, yes. Its the dutch video/photo dumb website
2018-10-25T23:05:58 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-25T23:06:04 < Steffanx> and dump.
2018-10-25T23:07:24 < kakimir> Suomalainen, ruotsalainen ja norjalainen kisailivat siitä, kuka on pisimpään saunassa. Norjalainen oli kymmenen minuuttia ja tuli pois. Ruotsalainen oli viisitoista minuuttia ja tuli pois. Suomalainen oli ollut saunassa kaksi tuntia ja norjalainen huusi: "Suomalainen voit tulla jo pois, olet voittanut kilpailun." Siihen suomalainen vastasi: "Kyllä minä tulisin mutta pallit jäi lauteitten väliin."
2018-10-25T23:07:49 < mawk> inen inen inen inen 
2018-10-25T23:08:00 < Steffanx> ainen.
2018-10-25T23:08:42 < Steffanx> ei ei ei. 
2018-10-25T23:09:30 < kakimir> google translate doesn't translate "pallit" right
2018-10-25T23:09:37 < kakimir> it's balls not bins
2018-10-25T23:09:51 < mawk> eieren essen
2018-10-25T23:10:30 < Steffanx> Eieren eten. 
2018-10-25T23:10:40 < Steffanx> Better up your dutch game, mawk
2018-10-25T23:10:46 < mawk> it was german :(
2018-10-25T23:10:59 < Steffanx> yes
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2018-10-25T23:34:59 < zyp> ik wil betalen
2018-10-25T23:36:16 < kakimir> betala
2018-10-25T23:37:22 < kakimir> I remember the word from swedish class
2018-10-25T23:37:41 < kakimir> oh
2018-10-25T23:38:04 < kakimir> "pappa betala"
2018-10-25T23:45:27 < Steffanx> :)
2018-10-25T23:45:37 < Steffanx> Let op! Drempels.
2018-10-25T23:46:05 < jadew> Steffanx, that guy could have gotten out of there the same way he got in
2018-10-25T23:46:26 < jadew> if he got one or two people to sit in his lap his balls would have been free
2018-10-25T23:46:41 < jadew> he probably dropped his ass on the chair
2018-10-25T23:48:02 < Steffanx> In panic people cant think.
2018-10-25T23:48:40 < Steffanx> Still lol though
2018-10-25T23:49:03 < jadew> yeah, I already shared it with everyone I know
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2018-10-25T23:56:52 < jadew> lmfao, I just spoiled a big thing from a show I'm watching seconds before it happened
2018-10-25T23:57:08 < jadew> I decided to google a character only to find out her name (in the show)
2018-10-25T23:57:29 < jadew> and I was like "wth...", seconds later her name is revealed in the show
2018-10-25T23:57:39 < jadew> 3rd season and I haven't done this before...
2018-10-25T23:57:58 < jadew> I only googled her because I thought she looks too hot for a nun
--- Day changed Fri Oct 26 2018
2018-10-26T00:02:51 < Steffanx> What series?
2018-10-26T00:02:59 < jadew> daredevil
2018-10-26T00:03:15 < Steffanx> Oh. Season 3?
2018-10-26T00:03:19 < jadew> yeah
2018-10-26T00:03:44 < Steffanx> Semi-bingewatch it
2018-10-26T00:03:49 < Steffanx> Last weekend
2018-10-26T00:04:10 < jadew> same here, I have a couple of episodes left
2018-10-26T00:05:14 < Steffanx> Deborah Ann Woll aka Karen isnt that bad either :P
2018-10-26T00:05:19 < Steffanx> The nun is a bit ols
2018-10-26T00:05:21 < Steffanx> Old
2018-10-26T00:05:34 < jadew> yeah, but she doesn't look like a nun
2018-10-26T00:06:03 < jadew> hmm, found a picture of her, yeah she's older than I thought she'd be
2018-10-26T00:06:42 < jadew> Karen isn't bad at all
2018-10-26T00:07:00 < karlp> malinus: right, some people here have heat exchangers too, but most of us just use the hot water as is.  you're still getting piped hot water though.  it's nice of them to charge based on temperature*volume, not just volume though :)
2018-10-26T00:28:14 < aandrew> who pasted the link to kasyan youtube?
2018-10-26T00:28:56 < karlp> crt
2018-10-26T00:30:15 < Steffanx> Isnt awake yet
2018-10-26T00:30:17 < aandrew> I've been watching it all day
2018-10-26T00:30:28 < aandrew> it's a weird russian site with male and female english voices
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2018-10-26T00:32:42 < Steffanx> Hah, did you enjoy the talk about recitifiers and zeniers?
2018-10-26T00:33:49 < aandrew> heh
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2018-10-26T01:12:33 < con3> Can different streams of the same DMA run concurrently?
2018-10-26T01:13:04 < zyp> that's the point of streams
2018-10-26T01:13:39 < con3> zyp: Just checking..cause as soon as I run another stream the other seems to hang
2018-10-26T01:16:12 < emeb> jpa-: thanks for the code review - I'll try those suggestions
2018-10-26T01:23:51 < emeb> jpa-: -fwrapv did in fact solve this problem. Seems I need to go to school on my understanding of undefined behavior.
2018-10-26T01:28:37 < Steffanx> There is a guy with a nice blog about it
2018-10-26T01:28:42 < emeb> jpa-: basically what I'm gathering from the compiler docs on the -fstrict-overflow option is that since signed arithmetic overflows are assumed not to happen, the compiler optimized out my explicit test for overflow.
2018-10-26T01:30:03 < Steffanx> https://blog.regehr.org/archives/213 was it i think
2018-10-26T01:30:27 < emeb> Steffanx: cool - I think I've read that before. 
2018-10-26T01:30:44 < Steffanx> Not unlikely
2018-10-26T01:30:46 < emeb> Just not at the forefront of my mind when coding though :(
2018-10-26T01:46:36 < con3> Ok. I'm going to take a shot in the dark. I have a DMA handling my sd card (2 streams with FIFO and peripheral flow controller) I also have additional dma streams for things like spi, reading in data. All these streams are on DMA2. When I write data to the sdcard without any other stream on DMA2 active, it works well, no issue. When I pop the write function in the callback of the spi function that
2018-10-26T01:46:52 < con3> s reading data in it fails horribly, it just hangs and gets a timeout
2018-10-26T01:47:28 < con3> Has anyone encountered something like this? Feels extremely weird.. that it bumbs out in the callback but works fine on its own
2018-10-26T01:47:50 < con3> Data cache is also disabled..
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2018-10-26T01:59:07  * con3 was having a panic attack. Ignore the message while he debugs
2018-10-26T01:59:16  * con3 starts checking the registers
2018-10-26T02:15:05 < jadew> BrainDamage, sync, any of you found cheap calibration kits to 20 GHz?
2018-10-26T02:16:03 < jadew> or maybe a place that can measure a bunch of high quality connectors and send them back with the measurements? (for cheap)
2018-10-26T02:17:44 < jadew> *terminators
2018-10-26T02:18:12 < jadew> cheapest I found is ~1.5k :/
2018-10-26T02:46:19 < emeb> jpa-: more news - digging further it seems that adding -fwrapv didn't fix the problem.
2018-10-26T02:46:29 < emeb> must be something else going on...
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2018-10-26T03:56:28 < Laurenceb124> muh babby shakker
2018-10-26T03:56:54 < Laurenceb124> >talk to uni guys
2018-10-26T03:57:00 < Laurenceb124> >they want to write a paper
2018-10-26T03:57:20 < Laurenceb124> >suggest a paper on abusing usb audio class for sensor interfacing
2018-10-26T03:57:27 < Laurenceb124> *they
2018-10-26T03:57:40 < Laurenceb124> the absolute state
2018-10-26T03:58:14 < Laurenceb124> >usb audio class is a "paper"
2018-10-26T03:58:48 -!- jadew [~razvan@unaffiliated/jadew] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2018-10-26T03:59:43 < Laurenceb124> inb4 flashing muh led with muh arduino is a paper
2018-10-26T03:59:49 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/0rdkm3Qm
2018-10-26T04:03:40 < Laurenceb124> >browsing without adblock
2018-10-26T04:04:12 < Laurenceb124> no shit sherlock
2018-10-26T04:05:59 < Laurenceb124> lulwut
2018-10-26T04:06:27 < Laurenceb124> today I found some literal chad versus virgin graffiti near my house
2018-10-26T04:06:30 < Laurenceb124> epic lulz
2018-10-26T04:06:52 < Laurenceb124> sorry no luck CIA
2018-10-26T04:07:10 < Laurenceb124> I live in Derby
2018-10-26T04:08:07 < Laurenceb124> my house https://www.google.com/maps/@52.9172041,-1.4763852,20z
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2018-10-26T08:25:34 < englishman> how come tv companies don't offer black and white anymore
2018-10-26T08:25:39 < englishman> only mixed colors
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2018-10-26T08:42:46 < jpa-> emeb_mac: maybe you have two bugs!
2018-10-26T08:43:05 < emeb_mac> jpa-: I probably have more than two ;)
--- Log closed Fri Oct 26 08:50:53 2018
--- Log opened Fri Oct 26 08:51:04 2018
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2018-10-26T09:26:48 < qyx_> 5ps resolution delay line
2018-10-26T09:26:54 < qyx_> looks interesting
2018-10-26T09:26:59 < qyx_> SY89297U
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2018-10-26T11:32:39 < Ecco> crt: well, wonder if you'll be able to *buy* a 9th gen i7 / i9
2018-10-26T11:32:57 < Ecco> paper launch
2018-10-26T11:33:43 < Ecco> They're out of stock everywhere
2018-10-26T11:34:36 < Ecco> well, same same
2018-10-26T11:34:45 < Ecco> even 8th gen are out of stock too
2018-10-26T11:35:46 < Ecco> depending on your workload, apparently Threadripper are awesome
2018-10-26T11:40:42 < PeterM> anything in the past 5 years is fine
2018-10-26T11:41:36 < Ecco> www?
2018-10-26T11:42:17 < Ecco> oh ok
2018-10-26T11:42:25 < PeterM> win 10 is fine
2018-10-26T11:42:47 < PeterM> i do agree with the web thing though
2018-10-26T11:43:12 < Ecco> I don't get it. What's gotten out of hands regarding web design?
2018-10-26T11:43:35 < Ecco> could you be a little bit less specific?
2018-10-26T11:45:51 < Ecco> How is that a problem?
2018-10-26T11:46:06 < Ecco> A lot of people have 4G and FTTH
2018-10-26T11:48:31 < Ecco> oh, this
2018-10-26T11:48:34 < Ecco> 100x this
2018-10-26T11:52:23 < PeterM> my current biggest gripe is the search functionality on porn websites is rubbish
2018-10-26T11:53:00 < PeterM> you know it doesn't work properly when you put filters in the search to narrow the results and it returns more
2018-10-26T11:53:27 < Ecco> well PeterM, maybe they just don't *have* whatever weird shit you're into. Like interracial pterodactyl on trans midget porn might actually *not* exist…
2018-10-26T11:58:29 < PeterM> if thats the case, then it should say "0 results found, did you mean????????"
2018-10-26T12:04:49 < PeterM> oh,, another thing from the past 5 years that sucks, in google image search there is no link to "view full image" now
2018-10-26T12:05:10 < PeterM> for that reason i now use bing for image searchs
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2018-10-26T13:40:09 < jadew`> nice email campaign by netflix: "Sabrina Spellman invites you to her Dark Baptism"
2018-10-26T13:42:50 < jadew`> http://188.25.75.18/stuff/netflix.png
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2018-10-26T14:05:38 < jadew> pff... they're pushing diversity in that movie and because of it the family makes no sense
2018-10-26T14:06:58 < karlp> did you watch the original series?
2018-10-26T14:07:05 < jadew> karlp, no
2018-10-26T14:07:12 < jadew> what's it called?
2018-10-26T14:07:14 < karlp> so how have you decided that tthe family makes no sense?
2018-10-26T14:07:51 < jadew> karlp, because there's an old line of witches, all white, all women living in a house, but there's also the black cousin, who's also a witch
2018-10-26T14:08:27 < jadew> how the fuck did he get there? considering there are other witches getting butthurt about sabrina's dad fucking an outsider
2018-10-26T14:08:50 < karlp> outsider doesn't have to mean black you know
2018-10-26T14:09:00 < karlp> it could also mean "people not in the magic club already"
2018-10-26T14:09:15 < karlp> you're just looking for reasons to be upset
2018-10-26T14:09:37 < jadew> I'm not, and I thought about what you said, but it still feels forced
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2018-10-26T14:10:10 < jadew> was that the composition of the family in the original series too?
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2018-10-26T14:16:18 < karlp> there were many distant relatives, so it immediately didn't matter what colour they were.
2018-10-26T14:17:03 < jadew> so... no?
2018-10-26T14:17:21 < karlp> so... I don't even remember, because it doesn't matter
2018-10-26T14:17:36 < karlp> but there's no precendent for "they must be white" either
2018-10-26T14:17:42 < jadew> of course it doesn't matter, but it doesn't make it any less forced
2018-10-26T14:18:07 < jadew> kinda is, because this kind of witchcraft is european in origin
2018-10-26T14:18:36 < karlp> would it not be forced for them to be all white too?
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2018-10-26T14:18:54 < jadew> no, it would be normal, because they're of european descent
2018-10-26T14:19:36 < karlp> right, and "europe" is 100% white.  good one, nice story bro
2018-10-26T14:19:49 < karlp> and it's america, so "europe" witches?
2018-10-26T14:20:52 < jadew> europe was almost 100% white when witches were a common thing in the mind of the people
2018-10-26T14:21:30 < jadew> and those are the same witches (as ideas) that got imported into the US, because they were taken there by european migrants
2018-10-26T14:22:31 < jadew> for europeans and their descendends, those witches were the real one, african magic was like a different religion (not true or had little value)
2018-10-26T14:22:32 < karlp> where they stayed aryan and pure!
2018-10-26T14:24:57 < jadew> so yeah... they would have stayed aryan, because it's like trying to mix christianity with buddism and say it's the same thing
2018-10-26T14:25:02 < jadew> it doesn't mix
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2018-10-26T15:03:39 < zyp> what the fuck jadew, you're picking the dumbest things to be upset about
2018-10-26T15:04:08 < jadew> I'm not upset about... I'm just pointing out that it doesn't make sense
2018-10-26T15:04:33 < zyp> it's a fucking movie about witches and you're concerned it won't make sense
2018-10-26T15:12:12 < jadew> the only problem with that is that it takes something deeply rooted in our culture (I grew up with stories about these sort of witches), and tries to make it credible to your brain, for 30 minutes
2018-10-26T15:12:25 < jadew> they rely heavily on that background
2018-10-26T15:13:22 < jadew> anything that doesn't fit simply seems out of place for your brain and it quickly turns the movie into some people doing something silly on the screen, rather than an experience related to that background
2018-10-26T15:13:49 < jadew> science fiction only works if it follows the same rules
2018-10-26T15:14:15 < jadew> that's why recent super hero movies are shit
2018-10-26T15:14:33 < karlp> "expects childhood romanian white witches" "watches american comedy witch drama tv series"
2018-10-26T15:14:39 < jadew> even when they try to be sci-fi, they still end up as fantasy
2018-10-26T15:14:54 < jadew> karlp, lol
2018-10-26T15:15:10 < zyp> fuck your rules, just enjoy it for what it is or don't watch it
2018-10-26T15:15:27 < zyp> entertainment doesn't have to follow rules, it just have to be fun
2018-10-26T15:16:08 < jadew> I agree, but if a particular thing in a movie is distracting enough, I can't watch it
2018-10-26T15:17:00 < zyp> jadew, then don't?
2018-10-26T15:17:27 < jadew> zyp, I'm not... I stopped watching it
2018-10-26T15:17:52 < zyp> and now your entertainment is shitting on it online instead?
2018-10-26T15:18:06 < jadew> looks like it, yeah
2018-10-26T15:18:18 < zyp> cool, mine is arguing against it :)
2018-10-26T15:18:23 < jadew> :)
2018-10-26T15:22:42 < jadew> man... I always forget what size spacer I use to cut my hair
2018-10-26T15:23:04 < jadew> I've been meaning to write it down for at least 10 years, but I never get to do it because when I'm done I don't care about it anymore
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2018-10-26T15:47:47 < cjbaird> The Nucelo32 L432KCU board has D8 and D9 n.c, and the A4/A5 used in the Arduino world for SDA/SCL are hardwared as ADC inputs. reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
2018-10-26T15:49:45 < cjbaird> I'll have to do something like the F303K8 board. 
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2018-10-26T16:20:29 < kow_> https://i.imgur.com/KpKmuqA.png
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2018-10-26T16:21:59 < qyx_> jadew: 4
2018-10-26T16:23:40 < bitmask> what non conductive material would you wrap carbon fiber in as a heater? I have a roll of ptfe?
2018-10-26T16:28:16 < zyp> gunpowder
2018-10-26T16:28:41 < kow_> fiberglass
2018-10-26T16:29:16 < kow_> the auto store sells fiberglass wrap for exhausts
2018-10-26T16:32:45 < bitmask> nylon
2018-10-26T16:32:46 < qyx_> you can get fiberglass tube from ebay
2018-10-26T16:43:42 < jadew> qyx_, 4mm? :)
2018-10-26T16:43:57 < jadew> I used 18, looks ok
2018-10-26T16:45:39 < Steffann> I have to agree with you this time jadew. About movie/series and rules.
2018-10-26T16:46:45 < Steffann> Unless its comedy. Then rules do not apply.
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2018-10-26T16:48:44 < jadew> yeah, haven't seen a good comedy in a while tho - any suggestions?
2018-10-26T16:49:18 < Steffanx> No, im not really into comedy
2018-10-26T16:49:36 < jadew> I know, thought I'd ask anyway
2018-10-26T16:49:58 < Steffanx> :P
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2018-10-26T17:17:31 < qyx_> those segmented lcd displays are supercheap O_o
2018-10-26T17:18:11 < qyx_> it would be great if it runs at least a couple of months with a L0
2018-10-26T17:18:19 < qyx_> on a cr2032 or similar
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2018-10-26T18:00:25 < kakimir> writing a raport blaah
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2018-10-26T18:22:58 < bitmask> heyo
2018-10-26T18:23:06 < bitmask> how do power werk
2018-10-26T18:23:50 < bitmask> if you have an 18650 battery, protection circuit and balance circuit, how do you power the charging?
2018-10-26T18:24:08 < bitmask> do you need a constant current supply? 
2018-10-26T18:24:48 < bitmask> (I mentioned balancing because it would be a 3S pack)
2018-10-26T18:28:14 < bitmask> ehh fug it
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2018-10-26T18:35:09 < aandrew> bitmask: lithium charging is fairly well documented
2018-10-26T18:35:22 < aandrew> generally though you use a standalone charge IC which does the right thing instead of tryign to roll you rown
2018-10-26T18:35:36 < aandrew> and for series packs the controllers often have balance capability
2018-10-26T18:36:42 < bitmask> I see, I try to ebay boards to get an idea of what ICs people use but all I was getting was protection and balancing circuits, didnt see anything for actual charging
2018-10-26T18:36:42 < catphish> here's some more pointless photos of my machine taking shape https://imgur.com/a/FCi5Jqi
2018-10-26T18:37:59 < catphish> bitmask: as aandrew says you need a supply that does 3 things 1) constant current with 2) capped voltage and 3) a low current cut-off
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2018-10-26T18:38:36 < bitmask> yea I got it, I was just pointing out my flawed rationale 
2018-10-26T18:38:39 < catphish> this is a pretty standard approach to charging lithium batteries, there are ICs that handle this
2018-10-26T18:39:01 < bitmask> wow, thanks...
2018-10-26T18:39:05 < aandrew> the good ones will also have a thermo inupt 
2018-10-26T18:39:21 < catphish> yeah, i went through this, hoping to find an IC that handles both charging and discharging / protection, but they don't see to exist
2018-10-26T18:39:25 < aandrew> 1S charge controllers are pennies
2018-10-26T18:39:48 < emeb> aandrew: cute 2 head z axis
2018-10-26T18:39:57 < catphish> it seems that one needs a separate charge controller, though it's easy to find something that does balancing and discharge protection
2018-10-26T18:40:00 < aandrew> good stuff catphish. what are you using for modelling the 3d shit
2018-10-26T18:40:16 < catphish> aandrew: openscad
2018-10-26T18:40:16 < emeb> s/aandrew/catphish/
2018-10-26T18:40:41  * emeb 's client rendered both with the same color
2018-10-26T18:41:04 < catphish> emeb: thanks, it's getting there, mostly copying other people's designs but reimplementing them myself
2018-10-26T18:42:31 < catphish> i've spent *days* trying to get the 2 Y axes aligned properly :(
2018-10-26T18:42:48 < catphish> it's seemingly impossible to align them perfectly in all axes
2018-10-26T18:44:16 < emeb> I'd imagine so.
2018-10-26T18:44:53 < aandrew> this kind of mechanical design I find is very challenging
2018-10-26T18:45:06 < aandrew> an experienced mech designer/industrial designer would be a godsend 
2018-10-26T18:45:41 < bitmask> are the two Y steppers controlled by the same driver?
2018-10-26T18:47:04 < karlp> https://imgur.com/a/7wPXDvG
2018-10-26T18:47:15 < bitmask> ive seen corexy printers with 3 independent z axes that auto level by having an endstop on each and homing each to determine alignment
2018-10-26T18:47:33 < bitmask> not sure how precise that is though
2018-10-26T18:48:14 < emeb> seems it'd be easier just to have a single motor and a shaft between the two y pulleys
2018-10-26T18:49:17 < emeb> "in a world where a stepper motor is cheaper than a steel rod"
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2018-10-26T20:13:49 < qyx_> when doing pt1000 cheaply, would you consider VDDA - R1 - Pt1000 - R2 - GND pro enough?
2018-10-26T20:14:19 < qyx_> (4 wire connection)
2018-10-26T20:15:25 < qyx_> VDDA can be measured using the internal ADC + optionally using the internal opamp
2018-10-26T20:15:36 < qyx_> or maybe not, no opamp in the L0
2018-10-26T20:16:00 < Steffanx> R2COM has been arrested: https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/clintons-obama-suspicious-packages/index.html
2018-10-26T20:19:23 < Steffanx> You can always pick one of those cheap arse microchip opamps, but no clue about the specs ( and how they compare to the L1 opamps )
2018-10-26T20:19:45 < qyx_> I picked one, MCP3421 for example
2018-10-26T20:20:08 < qyx_> but it doesn't have any external reference output
2018-10-26T20:20:17 < qyx_> I mean output of the internal reference
2018-10-26T20:20:44 < qyx_> so I would need a precision current source
2018-10-26T20:23:27 < qyx_> fuk the farnell website, after doing ~third search it starts to continuously report access denied
2018-10-26T20:25:37 < karlp> it's telling you to go home for the week
2018-10-26T20:25:55 < jpa-> considering the ADC is referred to VDDA, i don't think the actual voltage even matters
2018-10-26T20:26:20 < jpa-> main sources of error would be R1 and R2 tolerances, the ADC resolution and the ADC nonlinearity
2018-10-26T20:26:33 < jpa-> add some capacitors and there is no need for buffer opamp
2018-10-26T20:27:14 < qyx_> it matters because the current (and the measured voltage on the RTD) depends on it
2018-10-26T20:27:44 < qyx_> oh
2018-10-26T20:27:50 < qyx_> I got what you are saying
2018-10-26T20:27:53 < jpa-> wouldn't it just act as a voltage divider, and because ADC reports relative to VDDA the ratio remains the same
2018-10-26T20:28:02 < qyx_> yes, very true
2018-10-26T20:28:53 < jpa-> VDDA - R1 - Pt1000 - R2 - GND   and measuring with two channels and subtracting should be better than     VDDA - R1 - Pt1000 - GND    and one channel if there is any risk of the sensor not being fully isolated
2018-10-26T20:29:33 < qyx_> so you suggest just a cap parallel to the Pt and subtract in sw?
2018-10-26T20:29:53 < karlp> you mean putting the pt100 probe wire into twoadc cahnnels?
2018-10-26T20:29:54 < qyx_> or caps between Pt and GND
2018-10-26T20:29:54 < jpa-> i suggest two caps: from gnd to each ADC pin
2018-10-26T20:30:01 < karlp> or does it have two wires out?
2018-10-26T20:30:03 < qyx_> yeah, that way
2018-10-26T20:30:06 < qyx_> 4 wires
2018-10-26T20:30:20 < qyx_> 2 wires are goind from vdda and gnd through R1 and R2
2018-10-26T20:30:28 < qyx_> and 2 wires are going directly to two ADC channels
2018-10-26T20:30:31 < qyx_> with caps to ground
2018-10-26T20:30:33 < jpa-> and keep the samplerate vs. resistance so that the sampling current of the ADC doesn't cause too much error for you
2018-10-26T20:32:07 < qyx_> I was about to do oversampling to ~16bits so I will probably need to lower the sample rate
2018-10-26T20:33:27 < kakimir> new dacmagic xs
2018-10-26T20:33:47 < Steffanx> ty
2018-10-26T20:33:50 < jpa-> looks like you can do up to 10kHz sampling with 1kohm input impedance to keep error below 1/2**16
2018-10-26T20:35:33 < jpa-> which would give you about 2 readings per second if you want it very nice and smooth at 16 bits
2018-10-26T20:37:41 < englishman> lol karlp 
2018-10-26T20:38:03 < englishman> i was also offended by the netflix spam, because i unsubscribed from their spam and they sent it anyway
2018-10-26T20:38:56 < Steffanx> awh
2018-10-26T20:40:48 < Steffanx> Will you be ok englishman ?
2018-10-26T20:41:27 < englishman> i'll be happy when Digikey has to cut me a huge cheque
2018-10-26T20:42:25 < Steffanx> all those CADs
2018-10-26T20:43:52 < jpa-> "cad: A low-bred, presuming person; a mean, vulgar fellow"   yeah we sure have a lot of those here
2018-10-26T20:44:20 < Steffanx> I love you too jpa-
2018-10-26T20:45:05 < jadew> catphish, that's a pick & place machine, right?
2018-10-26T20:45:31 < jpa-> i spent an hour today trying to clone stlink firmware onto a bluepill and after i succeeded it just didn't work anyway
2018-10-26T20:45:55 < Steffanx> i bought a jlink clone v9.5. works like a charm
2018-10-26T20:45:59 < Steffanx> even after an official fw upgrade
2018-10-26T20:46:14 < Steffanx> Dont tell Segger.
2018-10-26T20:46:23 < invzim> speak of the devil - I just installed truestudio 9.1 and it updated the firmware on my segger clone 
2018-10-26T20:46:26 < invzim> works :)
2018-10-26T20:49:15 < Steffanx> :)
2018-10-26T20:49:56 < invzim> fun fact- LDO's take some time to power-up/stabilize
2018-10-26T20:50:33 < invzim> my fpga powerup stuff worked a lot better after using the stm32 adc's to ensure they were stable before releasing the 'reset'
2018-10-26T20:51:17 < invzim> 0000:00:00:00.061 - --  Power verification start  --
2018-10-26T20:51:17 < invzim> 0000:00:00:00.160 - Rails ok - 98ms
2018-10-26T20:51:43 < englishman> https://www.itnews.com.au/news/china-systematically-hijacks-internet-traffic-researchers-514537
2018-10-26T20:51:55 < englishman> cool
2018-10-26T20:52:07 < catphish> jadew: it is
2018-10-26T21:06:51 < kakimir> they captured englishmans internets
2018-10-26T21:08:56 < kakimir> superbia hello
2018-10-26T21:11:14 < qyx_> oh new table https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus.html
2018-10-26T21:11:40 < qyx_> or maybe not.. but I haven't seen it so far
2018-10-26T21:13:10 < kakimir> superbia: I had a problem with popcom notificator you recommended
2018-10-26T21:14:10 < kakimir> apparently windows event system went crazy with it
2018-10-26T21:14:42 < englishman> live musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3noePSTHtVY
2018-10-26T21:15:08 < kakimir> superbia: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lPHZkJTrGfq_ApaL-kQMcX2fK9CUqIiv/view?usp=sharing
2018-10-26T21:16:14 < kakimir> yes
2018-10-26T21:16:19 < kakimir> it works
2018-10-26T21:17:48 < kakimir> have you had any high unaccounted processor loads with popcom?
2018-10-26T21:19:07 < Steffanx> WELCOME mr superbia
2018-10-26T21:19:16 < kakimir> how is swiss land superbia?
2018-10-26T21:20:41 < Steffanx> did you go skiing et?
2018-10-26T21:21:11 < aandrew> huh
2018-10-26T21:21:19 < aandrew> I *just* used a draftsman document for the first time in altium
2018-10-26T21:21:24 < aandrew> THIS is how you get assembly drawings
2018-10-26T21:21:31 < aandrew> I thought it was just printing mech11 or whatever
2018-10-26T21:22:57 < kakimir> are you living in that meterological bubble where sun shines 350days in a year?
2018-10-26T21:23:12 < kakimir> I heard there is such area in alps
2018-10-26T21:24:04 < Steffanx> I believed that too, but then i visited tctw
2018-10-26T21:25:53 < kakimir> friend went to such claimed area once
2018-10-26T21:26:10 < kakimir> and snowfall was like 50cm a day
2018-10-26T21:28:47 < kakimir> sking with one leg?
2018-10-26T21:29:49 < kakimir> what happend?
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2018-10-26T21:48:47 < Steffanx> lol, superbia. im glad you're still not over that misunderstanding.
2018-10-26T21:51:31 < BrainDamage> superbia: which region of switzerland are you in?
2018-10-26T21:52:30 < Steffanx> the secret one.
2018-10-26T21:54:17 < Steffanx> "was told". The only swisser i know is tectu
2018-10-26T21:54:26 < englishman> im operating with my K31
2018-10-26T21:54:27 < Steffanx> and afaik you werent there
2018-10-26T21:54:47 < Steffanx> *arent
2018-10-26T21:58:03 < aandrew> why didn't you fuckers tell me about draftsman for assembly drawings, jeez
2018-10-26T21:58:05 < aandrew> I count on you
2018-10-26T21:58:29 < Steffanx> because you forgot to read the backlogs
2018-10-26T21:58:58 < Steffanx> it was discussed probably 1-2 years ago.
2018-10-26T22:00:35 < aandrew> there is some mention of draftsman here and there, but not specifically for assembly that I've found
2018-10-26T22:00:38 < aandrew> but yeah
2018-10-26T22:00:40 < aandrew> man I wish I knew about this
2018-10-26T22:00:55 < Steffanx> :P
2018-10-26T22:01:04 < invzim> that's an altium 18 thingie?
2018-10-26T22:01:12 < englishman> yeah i use it all the time
2018-10-26T22:01:14 < englishman> its gr8
2018-10-26T22:01:16 < englishman> 17 iirc
2018-10-26T22:01:23 < englishman> it gets better in 18 too
2018-10-26T22:01:25 < aandrew> yeah that's what I'm on
2018-10-26T22:01:27 < aandrew> 17.1
2018-10-26T22:01:35 < invzim> read so much guff about 18 I decided to stay on 17 for now
2018-10-26T22:01:41 < englishman> 18 is gr8
2018-10-26T22:01:57 < englishman> around this time next year 19 should be ok too
2018-10-26T22:02:08 < englishman> even though they are already 141 builds into 19
2018-10-26T22:02:41 < aandrew> yeah I need to update my license for another year
2018-10-26T22:03:27 < aandrew> although I hear 18 and later phone home to altium for licensing. I'm not happy about that
2018-10-26T22:04:50 < Steffanx> Sexy time <3
2018-10-26T22:41:53 < jadew> catphish, how much time did you invest so far?
2018-10-26T22:42:39 < jadew> it looks good btw
2018-10-26T22:43:38 < catphish> jadew: been working on it in about 50% of my free time for about 4 weeks
2018-10-26T22:44:17 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2018-10-26T22:44:19 < jadew> so quite a bit
2018-10-26T22:44:24 -!- Streake_ [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-26T22:53:44 < Steffanx> or 0.
2018-10-26T22:53:46 < Steffanx> hours
2018-10-26T22:56:28 -!- nikomo [~quassel@nikomo.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2018-10-26T22:56:35 < englishman> Order Total $1,034.4733
2018-10-26T22:56:36 < jadew> I don't think he's a slave
2018-10-26T22:56:37 < englishman> thanks ARROW
2018-10-26T22:56:49 < englishman> $13b/year in sales
2018-10-26T22:58:11 < englishman> wtf
2018-10-26T22:58:17 < englishman> they didnt ship my digglent board
2018-10-26T22:58:29 < englishman> 3 order lines, 3 shipments
2018-10-26T22:59:55 < Steffanx> better than 1 order, 1 product and 6 track and trace codes. Like i got a while ago.
2018-10-26T22:59:59 < Steffanx> (not from arrow but ... )
2018-10-26T23:00:06 < englishman> nice
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2018-10-26T23:01:56 < Steffanx> can you actually re-listen those ABGT streams englishman ?
2018-10-26T23:02:10 < englishman> yeah they get posted shortly after
2018-10-26T23:02:53 < Steffanx> ah, now is see it. 
2018-10-26T23:02:54 < Steffanx> fail
2018-10-26T23:04:07 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/KQx6kf6.jpg
2018-10-26T23:04:12 < englishman> 14k pins to solder
2018-10-26T23:06:08 < Steffanx> Good job ST: https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/errata_sheet/c3/00/3b/90/a0/50/4c/ad/DM00108473.pdf/files/DM00108473.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00108473.pdf 
2018-10-26T23:06:15 < Steffanx> Great work around for issue 2.3.1
2018-10-26T23:07:16 < englishman> here is some millenial music for you steffy https://soundcloud.com/rlgrime/halloween-vii
2018-10-26T23:07:36 < Steffanx> thats kakimusic.
2018-10-26T23:07:57 < Steffanx> closed.
2018-10-26T23:08:07 < englishman> lol
2018-10-26T23:13:15 < jadew> catphish, how many parts per hour do you think it's going to be able to do?
2018-10-26T23:13:38 < jadew> (I assume you researched the topic and know the figures others have gotten)
2018-10-26T23:21:42 < qyx_> englishman: are you going to hand solder thenm?
2018-10-26T23:21:59 < englishman> yes every one
2018-10-26T23:29:08 < qyx_> gl
2018-10-26T23:30:30 < catphish> jadew: nope, no idea :)
2018-10-26T23:30:53 < catphish> i've seen them take 1 second to place a part, i've seen them take 20 :)
2018-10-26T23:31:21 < jadew> I see
2018-10-26T23:32:05 < englishman> ty
2018-10-26T23:32:28 < englishman> does anyone want a job
2018-10-26T23:32:33 < englishman> must provide own airfare
2018-10-26T23:32:59 < englishman> I offer a lead free environment (asbestos free in 2020)
2018-10-26T23:33:37 < aandrew> englishman: heh
2018-10-26T23:33:44 < aandrew> it's good to be so busy :-)
2018-10-26T23:33:49 < catphish> englishman: now many money do i get?
2018-10-26T23:33:49 < englishman> yes
2018-10-26T23:33:57 < englishman> I'm going to buy an airplane
2018-10-26T23:34:01 < aandrew> also nothing wrong with asbestos either, as long as it's not floating around in the air
2018-10-26T23:34:19 < qyx_> catphish: I assume not more than DHL would cost
2018-10-26T23:35:08 < catphish> DHL are threatening to take my employer to court over a £24 VAT bill right now :)
2018-10-26T23:35:24 < qyx_> you employer must love you
2018-10-26T23:35:27 < qyx_> *your
2018-10-26T23:35:45 < aandrew> catphish: lol I had that with FedEx and $11 for something I missed 
2018-10-26T23:37:02 < qyx_> ok looks like L0 + IP67 box + 4.5digit LCD + Pt1000 would cost ~10e in BOM
2018-10-26T23:37:11 < qyx_> I hope china is not going to make such things for less
2018-10-26T23:37:51 < qyx_> and it doesnt matter actually
2018-10-26T23:39:12 < Steffanx> arent you your own employer catphish ? :S
2018-10-26T23:48:16 < zyp> fuck
2018-10-26T23:48:40 < zyp> I'm currently re-realizing that moving means literally moving a fuckton of stuff
2018-10-26T23:50:46 < zyp> I bought a couple of kitchen counter drawer sections last year because this apartment doesn't have enough drawers, and I'm gonna reuse them in the new kitchen
2018-10-26T23:51:00 < zyp> so I just disassembled them
2018-10-26T23:51:14 < zyp> because I'm about to start assembling the kitchen in the new house
2018-10-26T23:51:33 < zyp> and they were of course full of all sorts of stuff
2018-10-26T23:52:14 < Steffanx> stuff you didnt even know you had?
2018-10-26T23:52:21 < zyp> more like forgot
2018-10-26T23:52:46 < Steffanx> > trashbin? :D
2018-10-26T23:52:53 < zyp> before I got the drawers, I had the countertop resting on two stacks of lack tables (because I have a fuckton of those too)
2018-10-26T23:53:22 < zyp> and those have been serving as shelves since, so I also had to clear them out so I could put them back
2018-10-26T23:54:50 < zyp> because we're still gonna live here for another two months :p
2018-10-26T23:54:56 < catphish> Steffanx: sort of, my employer is a company, it is legally not me, this is an important distinction
2018-10-26T23:55:23 < catphish> Steffanx: also, it's just just me, there are 2 owners and 8 other staff :)
2018-10-26T23:56:05 < zyp> my wife's been asleep on the couch while I've been creating this mess, wonder what she's gonna say when she wakes up :p
2018-10-26T23:59:52 < zyp> also, I'm kinda stuck now, I wanna get the stuff over to the new house, but shit's too heavy and inconveniently shaped that I don't think I have any chance getting it up to the second floor all by myself
--- Day changed Sat Oct 27 2018
2018-10-27T00:00:10 < zyp> and I don't have anybody available to help me carry at the moment
2018-10-27T00:00:12 < catphish> DHL are being quite incompetent, starting by miscalculating my VAT, they they billed my company (not totally unreasonable as it's the company's address i use) for the incorrect VAT and their admin fee (£11), i contacted them about the mistake, they told me they have a £30 fee to correct any mistakes
2018-10-27T00:00:15 < englishman> ffffff
2018-10-27T00:00:20 < englishman> ordered like $10k in parts yesterday
2018-10-27T00:00:26 < englishman> of course i forgot ONE
2018-10-27T00:00:32 < englishman> now gotta pay $8 shipping
2018-10-27T00:00:46 < zyp> catphish, typical DHL
2018-10-27T00:01:32 < catphish> i then emailed them telling them they were invoicing the wrong peeople because this was a personal delivery, and that i wasn't going to pay their admin fee because of the error, but i was happy to pay the original miscalculated VAT (£13 instead of £3) because meh
2018-10-27T00:01:51 < catphish> they totally ignored me, on both counts, and are continued to threaten legal action against the company
2018-10-27T00:02:43 < catphish> today someone else from the company separately contacted them to tell them the company was in no way involved and they were being silly
2018-10-27T00:04:07 < zyp> haha, do you really have to pay import VAT when it's like £3?
2018-10-27T00:04:33 < catphish> well in theory there's no lower limit, the gov recently removed it
2018-10-27T00:04:39 < zyp> ah
2018-10-27T00:04:45 < catphish> but... most small orders i never get billed, so i guess they don't care
2018-10-27T00:05:10 < zyp> in norway shit's exempt from customs processing if value is less than 350 NOK
2018-10-27T00:05:24 < zyp> but yeah, people have argued for removing that here too
2018-10-27T00:05:32 < catphish> they used to have that here, but i think they removed it :(
2018-10-27T00:05:35 < zyp> apparently it's unfairly penalizing norwegian webshops
2018-10-27T00:07:14 < zyp> which is fair enough, there's webstores whose entire business model is exploiting that loophole
2018-10-27T00:07:35 < catphish> this VAT was screwed up because the value was $25 including free shipping, basically DHL misread the invoice (which separated it as $15 + $10 shipping, even though I didn't actually pay separately for shipping), but DHL read it as $25 for the goods only, and added on their own estimated shipping cost of like $60
2018-10-27T00:07:43 < zyp> couple of years ago norway introduced a sugar tax, making candy and soda more expensive
2018-10-27T00:08:12 < catphish> and do i got billed about 4x too much VAT
2018-10-27T00:08:15 < catphish> *so
2018-10-27T00:08:19 < zyp> so now there's webstores in sweden that specializes in selling various bundles right under the 350 NOK limit
2018-10-27T00:08:33 < englishman> uh oh, GC 10 solderpaste out of stock
2018-10-27T00:09:04 < catphish> zyp: maybe that's why the limit was officially revoked here
2018-10-27T00:09:30 < zyp> the 350 NOK includes shipping cost, so they even have a shipping system where they drive it across the border to norway for free, and then send it on with normal norwegian mail which is not counted since that happens after importing
2018-10-27T00:09:47 < zyp> yeah
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2018-10-27T00:10:27 < zyp> I can see the arguments for removing the limit, it is pretty unfair like that
2018-10-27T00:10:56 < catphish> here the charge is for the "total value of the goods" which means it includes all charges including delivery to the importer's location
2018-10-27T00:11:02 < zyp> but on the other hand it would be pretty fucking ridiculous if every single small shipment from wherever had to go through a customs process
2018-10-27T00:11:43 < zyp> I don't care about having to pay VAT, but I don't want to pay a $20 processing fee on a $5 thing from china
2018-10-27T00:11:57 < jadew> got PCBs with yellow mask - not sure how I feel about them
2018-10-27T00:11:59 < catphish> yeah, my complaint is DHL's £11 handing fee
2018-10-27T00:12:10 < zyp> and also deal with miscalculated VAT
2018-10-27T00:12:23 < catphish> so my $25 item should have had £4 of VAT to pay
2018-10-27T00:12:30 < jadew> catphish, in here that fee is waived if you have an EORI number
2018-10-27T00:12:32 < zyp> jadew, does it look like piss?
2018-10-27T00:12:37 < jadew> zyp, it does
2018-10-27T00:12:41 < catphish> but instead i get a bill for £13 of VAT + £11 admin fee = £24
2018-10-27T00:12:47 < zyp> nice
2018-10-27T00:12:57 < zyp> catphish, fun
2018-10-27T00:13:14 < catphish> jadew: the fee is waived here if you have your own special credit account with the VAT authority
2018-10-27T00:13:36 < catphish> jadew: which seems non trivial to obtain
2018-10-27T00:13:50 < jadew> catphish, yeah, you don't need that here, just that number then you wire the money to the customs account, give the proof to DHL and then they release your packet
2018-10-27T00:14:09 < jadew> and you can get that in 1-2 working days by filling an online form
2018-10-27T00:14:32 < catphish> ah ok, yeah i think it has to be a credit account here, they don't like to hold the parcels
2018-10-27T00:14:50 < jadew> also, an update to my yesterday's rant, I got my samples VAT free \o/
2018-10-27T00:15:06 < jadew> catphish, pretty sure they love to hold the parcels
2018-10-27T00:15:11 < jadew> that's how they force you to pay them
2018-10-27T00:15:31 < jadew> also, if they hold them because you're too slow, they get to charge you
2018-10-27T00:15:34 < catphish> jadew: i think what i mean is that DHL don't like they, they prefer just to loan you the money and charge you the fee :)
2018-10-27T00:15:36 < zyp> jadew, so when you get shit with DHL, DHL have to hold your shit for a couple of days until it's cleared?
2018-10-27T00:15:37 < jadew> shipping companies are dicks
2018-10-27T00:15:53 < jadew> zyp, yeah
2018-10-27T00:16:01 < zyp> that sounds dumb as fuck
2018-10-27T00:16:23 < jadew> but they charge you if it's not all cleared within 3 days since the package has arrived in the country
2018-10-27T00:16:35 < zyp> what's the point of express shipping if they're gonna keep it at a warehouse next to you for the same amount of time it took to send it halfway around the world?
2018-10-27T00:17:00 < jadew> oh, they can keep it for way longer...
2018-10-27T00:17:05 < catphish> zyp: i guess that's why they always pay the fee here for you, people who do express shipping are usually happy to pay
2018-10-27T00:17:11 < zyp> but stlll
2018-10-27T00:17:13 < jadew> my last disputes with UPS were because nobody answered for two weeks
2018-10-27T00:17:24 < catphish> but i'm not happy to pay £11 for a 1 day loan
2018-10-27T00:17:53 < jadew> catphish, they should do it for free
2018-10-27T00:17:54 < catphish> especially if the loan is for the wrong amount in the first place!
2018-10-27T00:17:59 < zyp> when I get shit with any of the big express companies (DHL, UPS, fedex), shit usually is delivered to me only a couple of hours after it entered the country
2018-10-27T00:18:04 < jadew> it's part of getting the package to my door
2018-10-27T00:18:13 < catphish> jadew: i believe it should be covered by the delivery charge
2018-10-27T00:18:16 < jadew> if I don't pay, they can easily get a refund from the customs
2018-10-27T00:18:19 < catphish> and i'd pay immediately
2018-10-27T00:18:25 < jadew> me too
2018-10-27T00:18:46 < catphish> they can't in the UK, the customs authority says the shipper takes the risk, its not refundable
2018-10-27T00:18:48 < jadew> but they prefer doing it like that because then they can say they're $11 cheaper than <other company>
2018-10-27T00:19:08 < zyp> catphish, for EMS, customs processing is covered in the shipping cost
2018-10-27T00:19:10 < jadew> catphish, that's stupid...
2018-10-27T00:19:21 < zyp> with UPS, I also think it can be
2018-10-27T00:19:26 < jadew> yeah
2018-10-27T00:19:33 < jadew> with UPS you can pay for customs too
2018-10-27T00:19:38 < catphish> at this point, i don't owe the government VAT at all, the only person i owe is DHL
2018-10-27T00:19:41 < jadew> (not only for the processing)
2018-10-27T00:19:44 < catphish> the government are happy
2018-10-27T00:20:05 < zyp> with UPS, sometimes they charge a handling fee, sometimes they don't, I haven't entirely figured out the pattern but I think it depends on the deal they have with the sender
2018-10-27T00:20:11 < catphish> i'm also under no legal oblogation to pay them afaik, since i in no way authorized this loan
2018-10-27T00:20:23 < zyp> e.g. shit I get from Digikey I never have to pay a handling fee for, just the actual VAT
2018-10-27T00:20:33 < zyp> but other stuff is more hit and miss
2018-10-27T00:20:40 < catphish> digikey do it properly and pay the VAT in advance
2018-10-27T00:20:43 < catphish> i love it
2018-10-27T00:20:48 < zyp> not for me
2018-10-27T00:21:01 < jadew> mouser does that for me
2018-10-27T00:21:14 < catphish> sorry, i'm talking about moser, not digikey
2018-10-27T00:21:23 < catphish> mouser pay the VAT before they ship from USA to UK
2018-10-27T00:21:27 < zyp> that ebay global whatever thing collects VAT in advance though, that is neat
2018-10-27T00:21:28 < catphish> it's so much better
2018-10-27T00:21:51 < catphish> i wish there was a way i could log into a the gov website and pay my own VAT in advance
2018-10-27T00:21:52 < zyp> used that when I bought the in-wall rack
2018-10-27T00:22:16 < catphish> *a gov website
2018-10-27T00:22:33 < jadew> yeah, ebay global shipping is great
2018-10-27T00:22:41 < jadew> and cheaper than other options
2018-10-27T00:22:55 < zyp> bit slow though
2018-10-27T00:23:10 < jadew> not much slower than regular post
2018-10-27T00:23:19 < catphish> that's cool, i like dhl's speed / cost (excluding their fuck you fee)
2018-10-27T00:23:36 < jadew> I had one package that took a while, but I'm fine with that if it saves me hundreds of dollars
2018-10-27T00:23:44 < englishman> yeah i love dhl they are super zippy
2018-10-27T00:23:52 < englishman> and 1/10 the price of fedex
2018-10-27T00:24:23 < zyp> looks like it cost me $53 in shipping to get that rack closet from the US
2018-10-27T00:24:29 < englishman> >they told me they have a £30 fee to correct any mistakes
2018-10-27T00:24:31 < englishman> looooooooooooool
2018-10-27T00:26:52 < catphish> "I would like to take this opportunity to advise that with effect from the 9th March 2015 DHL will now charge £30.00 Post Clearance Modification fee for all post entry amendments which we are requested to submit to HMRC on our customers behalf."
2018-10-27T00:27:04 < englishman> the real cost of brexit
2018-10-27T00:27:11 < Steffanx> lol
2018-10-27T00:28:37 < catphish> i hope the real cost of brexit is £30
2018-10-27T00:28:59 < englishman> digikey tax fiasco has been escalated to management
2018-10-27T00:29:16 < zyp> catphish, technically, couldn't your company just pay the VAT bill and leave it at that? they would get it refunded anyway if they did, regardless of whether it's right or wrong
2018-10-27T00:29:22 < catphish> actually i hope the brexiteers are right, and we'll be much better off after brexit, ahahahahhahahaha
2018-10-27T00:29:52 < englishman> you will be, europe is a cesspool
2018-10-27T00:30:19 < catphish> zyp: if they paid the £24, they could claim back the £13 VAT element of it, yes, but not the £11 admin fee
2018-10-27T00:30:20 < Steffanx> Canuck with experience talking?
2018-10-27T00:30:22 < zyp> I mean, VAT-registered companies have to charge VAT on shit they sell, and can deduct VAT on shit they buy
2018-10-27T00:30:45 < zyp> sure, but that much you can cover, right?
2018-10-27T00:31:01 < zyp> you would have had to pay that even if they collected the right amount of VAT, right?
2018-10-27T00:31:30 < catphish> zyp: technically you are correct on all counts
2018-10-27T00:31:36 < englishman> https://youtu.be/kwB_NlLXNE4?t=52
2018-10-27T00:31:37 < catphish> but fuck them
2018-10-27T00:31:54 < zyp> so company pays bill, you reimburse the £11, none of you lose anything and you get rid of this bullshit
2018-10-27T00:33:38 < catphish> zyp: you are technically correct, but 1) i don't deal with tax matters for the company and i don't want to trouble the guy that does with my personal shit 2) i don't really want to pay DHL for their mistake
2018-10-27T00:34:46 < catphish> i emailed and politely offered them £13 to cover the costs they'd incurred due to their own error if they waived the fee
2018-10-27T00:34:51 < catphish> they ignored me
2018-10-27T00:35:20 < catphish> the tone of their subsequent threats makes me want to give them nothing
2018-10-27T00:36:14 < zyp> yeah, I get what your desired outcome is, but what do you think is the likely outcome?
2018-10-27T00:36:42 < catphish> most likely they will have to write off the whole debt because they lack the competence to accept my offer
2018-10-27T00:37:57 < zyp> my guess is that they'll just give the invoice to a collection agency
2018-10-27T00:38:16 < catphish> zyp: yep, i'm 99% sure that is what they'll do
2018-10-27T00:39:50 < zyp> the whole job of the collection agency is to make you pay, so I'm not sure that's a fight I'd want to take
2018-10-27T00:40:35 < zyp> I mean, DHL probably have terms that you have agreed to that states they are in the right to do what they've done
2018-10-27T00:40:54 < zyp> even if morally it's their fault
2018-10-27T00:40:55 < englishman> would those terms apply to a company that has nothing to do with the transaction except the same address
2018-10-27T00:40:59 < catphish> zyp: nope, that's where the trail goes cold, i have no agreement with DHL
2018-10-27T00:41:25 < catphish> i never asked them to loan me this money
2018-10-27T00:41:30 < englishman> that kind of "predatory billing" is pretty illegal
2018-10-27T00:41:48 < zyp> englishman, that much is true
2018-10-27T00:44:09 < jadew> considering they seem to do it in most countries, it's probably something that they get away with
2018-10-27T00:44:16 < catphish> so, IMO their practice of lending money without asking (no agreement of any kind) and then charging a fee for the loan is legally shaky
2018-10-27T00:44:27 < jadew> or something that it's worth doing it and paying the fine when someone complains
2018-10-27T00:45:10 < catphish> they do it, but i can't imagine there's any way a court would agree that making a mistake, then loaning money to cover that mistake, then charging a fee on that loan, and ignoring offers to compromise, is reasonable
2018-10-27T00:45:14 < jadew> catphish, did they deliver the goods to you?
2018-10-27T00:45:19 < catphish> jadew: yes
2018-10-27T00:45:36 < jadew> so pay them for the VAT and that's it
2018-10-27T00:45:41 < jadew> let them sue you
2018-10-27T00:45:48 < catphish> jadew: that's exactly what i am offering them
2018-10-27T00:46:06 < jadew> you can then sue them back for damages
2018-10-27T00:46:31 < catphish> jadew: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ZfSq2jChTf/
2018-10-27T00:46:43 < catphish> that was my email to them on 8th october
2018-10-27T00:47:40 < jadew> so leave it at that
2018-10-27T00:47:44 < jadew> I'd take it to court
2018-10-27T00:47:49 < catphish> they ignored that email and threatetened to pass the debt to a collection agency, then threatened to sue
2018-10-27T00:47:50 < jadew> (let them take it to court)
2018-10-27T00:48:01 < catphish> i will reiterate my offer
2018-10-27T00:48:59 < jadew> you can even explain why and tell them that's your last e-mail on this matter and if they bother you further about anything else other than to give you the invoice you asked for, you will also sue for contacting you without authorization
2018-10-27T00:49:04 < jadew> that should shut them up
2018-10-27T00:49:35 < zyp> haha
2018-10-27T00:49:38 < catphish> well i could start billing them my own made up fees :)
2018-10-27T00:49:46 < malinus> catphish: is that digikey?
2018-10-27T00:49:50 < catphish> which would be just as valid as theirs
2018-10-27T00:50:08 < catphish> malinus: no, that was someone else
2018-10-27T00:50:17 < catphish> this is to do with an order from allpcb
2018-10-27T00:50:43 < catphish> who do magically insanely cheap priority shipping
2018-10-27T00:51:39 < jadew> catphish, there's no way they're going to win that money
2018-10-27T00:51:53 < jadew> (in court)
2018-10-27T00:51:55 < catphish> jadew: that is my opinion too
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2018-10-27T00:53:35 < catphish> i'm totally happy to pay them the money they paid out for my tax, even including the error
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2018-10-27T00:53:51 < catphish> but they seem to be incapable of communicating rationally
2018-10-27T00:53:59 < jadew> I wouldn't pay for the error either
2018-10-27T00:54:32 < jadew> you pay for your own errors, why are they special?
2018-10-27T00:55:52 < catphish> well that's true, but meh, i was trying to be constructive
2018-10-27T00:56:27 < jadew> constructive would be to make a complaint against them to whoever handles abusive practices in your country
2018-10-27T00:57:26 < jadew> businesses are not people
2018-10-27T00:57:34 < jadew> big businesses at least
2018-10-27T00:57:54 < jadew> if they go out of line, they should be swiftly punished
2018-10-27T00:57:58 < catphish> that's true, i wonder if there's some legal precident that means they can do this
2018-10-27T00:58:14 < catphish> or if it's just that they've never taken it to court to be tested
2018-10-27T00:58:47 < jadew> most certainly they've been through that, but probably not in all countries
2018-10-27T00:58:49 < catphish> sometimes i wish i was an actual lawyer, not just someone who assumed the law rouchly approximates what is right
2018-10-27T00:59:04 < jadew> they found a way to milk the customer against his will and they're exploiting it everywhere
2018-10-27T00:59:18 < jadew> (for as long as it works)
2018-10-27T00:59:56 < catphish> since that email i pasted, they've sent my company (who have no part in this transaction) 2 threatening letters saying they'll pursue the company in court for the money
2018-10-27T01:01:01 < catphish> between the first threat and the second, i emailed this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/YXZ3PjtVNQ/
2018-10-27T01:02:24 < jadew> so... let get this, if I send you a box with nothing in it and I say it costs $50,000
2018-10-27T01:02:37 < jadew> without you even knowing
2018-10-27T01:02:47 < catphish> yes, you're getting i
2018-10-27T01:02:49 < catphish> *it
2018-10-27T01:02:50 < jadew> they'll pay the VAT and then expect you to pay it?
2018-10-27T01:03:14 < jadew> + fees
2018-10-27T01:03:30 < catphish> and there's no way the govt will refund them, so they will pursue it
2018-10-27T01:03:33 < jadew> which I'm sure are a % of the sum at that value
2018-10-27T01:03:45 < catphish> yep
2018-10-27T01:04:14 < catphish> actually they did say the government would correct it, subject to their additioanl £30 admin fee
2018-10-27T01:04:40 < catphish> so, i guess you could send them a replacement invoice valuing the empty box at zero
2018-10-27T01:04:56 < catphish> but still, yes, you're getting it
2018-10-27T01:05:06 < catphish> there is no pre-authorization
2018-10-27T01:05:17 < catphish> they just go ahead and loan you the money
2018-10-27T01:09:46 < jadew> you know, this could be used as a scam by those letter sending scammers
2018-10-27T01:20:48 < catphish> how so?
2018-10-27T01:21:49 < jadew> you send letters to companies, saying you're DHL and ask them to send you money for overdue invoices
2018-10-27T01:22:46 < jadew> you send 10-20 thousands of those in a day to the biggest companies
2018-10-27T01:24:08 < jadew> don't know how you'd avoid going to jail, but I'm sure scammers have their ways
2018-10-27T01:24:24 < jadew> the point is that this is a scam I could fall for
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2018-10-27T01:26:23 < jadew> anyway, I have to populate a board
2018-10-27T01:26:37 < jadew> I wonder how many parts/h my p&p can do
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2018-10-27T01:30:35 < catphish> enjoy :)
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2018-10-27T01:31:03 < catphish> i'm just thinking about redesigning mine to use rods instead of linear rails
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2018-10-27T01:31:31 < jadew> I improved on this: https://youtu.be/pdGSFc7VjBE?t=268
2018-10-27T01:31:51 < jadew> I'm using a different vacuum pump
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2018-10-27T01:35:54 < catphish> is he using his mouth?
2018-10-27T01:35:55 < catphish> lol
2018-10-27T01:37:17 < catphish> i want some of that fluid solder paste
2018-10-27T01:37:32 < catphish> mine is really really hard / dry
2018-10-27T01:38:53 < jadew> could be old
2018-10-27T01:39:19 < jadew> I have a really nice one, but I keep it in nail polish bottles for regular use and it gets hard every couple of years
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2018-10-27T01:40:22 < catphish> it was brand new, but maybe not, it was ebay, so maybe badly stored
2018-10-27T01:41:09 < catphish> i can use it with a stencil. but its way too hard to be applied by hand,
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2018-10-27T01:45:43 < jadew> oh, solder paste, sorry, I read flux for some reason
2018-10-27T01:46:23 < catphish> paste has flux in i think, so many of the same things hold true
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2018-10-27T02:28:27 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/Y4WYMNMk
2018-10-27T02:31:11 < catphish> Cracki: i use it straight from the fridge, maybe that's my problem
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2018-10-27T02:31:48 < catphish> Cracki: it stencils ok, but can't be done by applied manually
2018-10-27T02:31:51 < Laurenceb124>  "this is now I ride"
2018-10-27T02:32:00 < catphish> i'll try letting some warm and see how it changes
2018-10-27T02:32:47 < catphish> i keep all my lead based pastes in the fridge with my food
2018-10-27T02:33:59 < catphish> well i don't, i tried putting some on the top of a stick and applying it, but it was just too hard
2018-10-27T02:34:18 < catphish> even getting it out of its tube it a challenge
2018-10-27T02:34:37 < catphish> yeah i was using a toothpick i think
2018-10-27T02:34:39 < catphish> but it didn't work
2018-10-27T02:34:50 < catphish> mine's in a syringe tube
2018-10-27T02:34:55 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/qtJHdw86
2018-10-27T02:34:59 < Laurenceb124> at last I truly see
2018-10-27T02:35:00 < catphish> but its always refrigerated
2018-10-27T02:35:13 < catphish> lol
2018-10-27T02:37:03 < Streake_> but in her favour - she is the only current head of state whose nude pics are on the internet
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2018-10-27T02:38:14 < Laurenceb124> >Florida man
2018-10-27T02:38:20 < Laurenceb124> shit I resemble this remark
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2018-10-27T02:38:50 < Laurenceb124> heh
2018-10-27T02:40:54 < Laurenceb124> tfw le 78% face
2018-10-27T02:41:30 < aandrew> englishman: staples (bureau en gros since you're in frogland) has chairs on sale, like 50% off
2018-10-27T02:41:34 < aandrew> I just bought https://www.staples.ca/en/Staples-Hyken-Technical-Mesh-Task-Chair-Black/product_990119_1-CA_1_20001
2018-10-27T02:47:04 < Steffanx> Crt, let me see your war face. You got a warface?
2018-10-27T02:53:44 < Laurenceb124> stroke the pussy https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-45997126
2018-10-27T03:13:59 < englishman> aandrew: is this why you're giving away the free office chairs on Craigslist?
2018-10-27T03:15:10 < englishman> lead based solder
2018-10-27T03:15:17 < englishman> keeping solder in the fridge
2018-10-27T03:15:21 < englishman> what millennium is it
2018-10-27T03:15:37 < aandrew> lol
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2018-10-27T03:16:14 < Laurenceb124> wut
2018-10-27T03:16:22 < Laurenceb124> my fridge is full of lead solder
2018-10-27T03:17:13 < englishman> is it to fix your heathkit ham radio or your MGB you ancient outdated peasant
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2018-10-27T03:21:17 < Laurenceb124> for muh babby shakker boards
2018-10-27T03:22:06 < englishman> exposing babby to lead will surely contaminate the results. and the groundwater
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2018-10-27T03:38:58 < Laurenceb124> I met a guy who did lead flashing once
2018-10-27T03:39:06 < Laurenceb124> I think it's true that lead sends you insane
2018-10-27T03:39:23 < Laurenceb124> he was on my roof at 2am with a hammer making holes in it
2018-10-27T03:40:59 < Laurenceb124> then the next day he came round and apologised, and offered to rebuild it all 
2018-10-27T03:42:25 < Laurenceb124> was pretty funny, he was hooting like a Chimpanzee
2018-10-27T03:43:39 < Laurenceb124> maybe if I eat the lead solder this will happen to me
2018-10-27T03:49:18 < englishman> maybe its already happened
2018-10-27T03:51:18 < Laurenceb124> I think it manifests as uncontrollable rage and flipping
2018-10-27T03:51:22 < Laurenceb124> so prob not
2018-10-27T03:51:51 < Laurenceb124> he flipped because I offered him £50 for something he wanted £60 for
2018-10-27T03:52:25 < Laurenceb124> he literally ran away when I offered him too little at about 4pm, then came back at 2am and went full chimp mode
2018-10-27T03:53:05 < Laurenceb124> then he spent the next week and about £4k of his own money repairing it
2018-10-27T03:54:31 < Laurenceb124> same guy recently got sectioned for shooting hindus with milk filled tranquilliser darts using a crossbow
2018-10-27T03:59:19 < aandrew> lol
2018-10-27T04:01:20 < Laurenceb124> this was after he converted to islam
2018-10-27T04:02:20 < Laurenceb124> occupational lead exposure: not even once
2018-10-27T04:39:28 < aandrew> 20m
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2018-10-27T06:03:02 < con3> yes
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2018-10-27T06:08:19 < con3> I do, but everything is closed where I'm from
2018-10-27T06:08:55 < con3> I'd like to have working code more than Pizza though
2018-10-27T06:08:58 < jadew> pff... I decided to give that sabrina garbage another try
2018-10-27T06:09:12 < jadew> my garbage detector was working fine the first time
2018-10-27T06:09:30 < jadew> a couple more minutes into the show and they're forming a club to fight the patriarchy
2018-10-27T06:09:49 < jadew> literlally, that's what they're doing
2018-10-27T06:09:59 < jadew> karlp, was that in the original show too?
2018-10-27T06:10:42 < jadew> they also hint on the rape culture...
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2018-10-27T06:40:02 < jadew> apparently there's a list of shit you're not allowed to invent - didn't know that
2018-10-27T06:40:24 < jadew> this one is for UK: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/307009/p-securitylist.pdf
2018-10-27T06:40:56 < jadew> I wonder if Romania has such a list too
2018-10-27T06:43:46 < jadew> night
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2018-10-27T07:35:43 < friendofafriend> I don't even know how you could get a fidget spinner through that list.
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2018-10-27T10:18:52 < Thorn> >b. Wide band amplifiers whose band-width exceeds 50% of mid-frequency. 
2018-10-27T10:19:00 < Thorn> audio amps outlawed
2018-10-27T10:21:49 < BrainDamage> that list is a list of all the fun stuff
2018-10-27T10:22:49 < Thorn> >b. Any form of signaling, including spread spectrum, claiming to give a degree of immunity from natural and man-made interference. 
2018-10-27T10:23:00 < Thorn> wi-fi and bluetooth outlawed
2018-10-27T10:23:46 < Steffanx> Is it? Doesnt the title say "may be subject to blablablq"
2018-10-27T10:25:25 < Steffanx> Is baby shaking on the list. Most important one
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2018-10-27T12:35:56 < Steffanx> other
2018-10-27T12:38:16 < Steffanx> f
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2018-10-27T13:21:17 < Steffanx> is con3  ok, do you know?
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2018-10-27T13:32:53 < con3> god damn it, fell asleep in the office
2018-10-27T14:02:27 < Steffanx> We were with you all night, con3 
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2018-10-27T15:28:03 < catphish> https://imgur.com/caCWVR4
2018-10-27T15:29:10 < Steffanx> its alive \o/
2018-10-27T15:38:01 < catphish> yar :)
2018-10-27T15:40:17 < BrainDamage> that's an interesting list of book titles
2018-10-27T15:40:44 < BrainDamage> looks like mostly an interior decorator / gardening decorator?
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2018-10-27T15:52:40 < Laurenceb124> blonde cheeto man give many firewater, me make boom boom clock and send to blue tribe
2018-10-27T15:53:11 < catphish> Steffanx: even better: https://imgur.com/4zrEjr6
2018-10-27T15:55:13 < BrainDamage> did you print the plastic parts or did you just buy everything?
2018-10-27T15:58:31 < Steffanx> he prints it
2018-10-27T16:02:53 < Laurenceb124> my sides https://globalnation.inquirer.net/170642/fil-am-bomb-suspect-was-cash-strapped-ex-stripper-devoted-to-trump
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2018-10-27T16:14:58 < catphish> BrainDamage: yeah, designed and printed it all
2018-10-27T16:15:19 < catphish> thogh "designed" is a strong word, as it's largely based on other people's designs
2018-10-27T16:16:04 < marble_visions> mawk: no, i don't remember answering
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2018-10-27T18:22:09 < Laurenceb124> hol up
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2018-10-27T19:23:08 < mawk> socket or not socket
2018-10-27T19:24:00 < mawk> easier to program, but less pretty
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2018-10-27T19:57:37 < ds2> p
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2018-10-27T20:30:53 < jpa-> mawk: easier how?
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2018-10-27T21:09:04 < Streaker> ancient mcu w/o icsp maybe
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2018-10-27T21:21:40 < Steffanx> Oh that kind of socket. Lol.
2018-10-27T21:29:09 < zyp> I don't have much to show today, but I've started putting in the kitchen: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/VRPlz.jpg
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2018-10-27T21:37:12 < Steffanx> Ty ;)
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2018-10-27T23:03:24 < Laurenceb124> orange cheeto man say blue tribe bad
2018-10-27T23:06:52 < Laurenceb124> ugg hate blue tribe now
2018-10-27T23:08:47 < Steffanx> Hi Laurenceb124, how was your day
2018-10-27T23:48:53 < zyp> hrm, another hard drive died
2018-10-27T23:49:04 < zyp> (two weeks ago, but I only noticed today)
2018-10-27T23:49:52 < zyp> this was one of the newer ones that's not supposed to die so often, so it's ruining my statistics :p
--- Day changed Sun Oct 28 2018
2018-10-28T00:07:58 < Steffanx> seagate uh?
2018-10-28T00:08:19 < englishman> found zyps new bathroom https://ibb.co/gwSuVq
2018-10-28T00:09:24 < Steffanx> i hope zyp has a better taste than those wall tiles, englishman
2018-10-28T00:10:12 < Steffanx> welcome crt, are you Blaxter today?
2018-10-28T00:11:13 < englishman> im with the grey cat
2018-10-28T00:11:49 < Steffanx> is he ok ?
2018-10-28T00:12:46 < englishman> motor is running
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2018-10-28T00:17:10 < mawk> jpa-: I won't have to solder pins for access to SW if I can take the board out and put in on a breadboard
2018-10-28T00:18:24 < englishman> tagconnect to the rescue
2018-10-28T00:20:35 < Steffanx> but ##stm32 says tag connect is bad right?
2018-10-28T00:37:01 < englishman> The Japanese government has issued warnings that Japan’s law on cannabis use may apply to its nationals even when they are abroad.
2018-10-28T00:37:05 < englishman> no getting stoned for dongie
2018-10-28T00:38:59 < jadew> maybe the law says they can get stoned
2018-10-28T00:39:30 < BrainDamage> how would they be able to know?
2018-10-28T00:39:45 < BrainDamage> testing for drug residuals?
2018-10-28T00:40:18 < jadew> they rely on photographs other japs are taking
2018-10-28T00:40:31 < jadew> since they document everything
2018-10-28T00:42:54 < jadew> they're not allowed to get intoxicated by anything that's not already in the air?
2018-10-28T00:45:12 < jadew> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution_in_China#/media/File:Beijing_smog_comparison_August_2005.png
2018-10-28T00:47:01 < jadew> "A draft of a 2007 combined World Bank and SEPA report stated that up to 760,000 people died prematurely each year in China because of air and water pollution."\
2018-10-28T00:47:23 < jadew> I think they have bigger issues than pot
2018-10-28T00:48:20 < jadew> "High levels of air pollution in China's cities caused to 350,000-400,000 premature deaths. Another 300,000 died because of indoor air of poor quality. There were 60,000 premature deaths each year because of water of poor quality. Chinese officials asked that some of the results should not be published in order to avoid social unrest."
2018-10-28T00:49:06 < jadew> that's just insane
2018-10-28T00:49:14 < Steffanx> what premature?
2018-10-28T00:49:25 < Steffanx> 5 years "early"? 
2018-10-28T00:49:57 < jadew> Steffanx, that's a good question
2018-10-28T00:50:01 < Steffanx> to behonest idk how they calculate those numbers
2018-10-28T00:50:14 < jadew> probably from medical reports
2018-10-28T00:50:33 < jadew> some disseases can be associated with the poor air quality
2018-10-28T00:51:13 < Steffanx> do aussies die from too much tea in the pot crt?
2018-10-28T00:51:40 < jadew> all those workers in the cheap factory floors are probably inhaling a lot of bad stuff
2018-10-28T00:52:08 < jadew> coal has uranium in it?
2018-10-28T00:52:42 < jadew> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/
2018-10-28T01:02:39 < Steffanx> ok
2018-10-28T01:02:44 < Steffanx> are you ok?
2018-10-28T01:10:22 < kakimir> interesting
2018-10-28T01:10:38 < Steffanx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_euro_cent_coin#/media/File:20_eurocent_common_2007.jpg there you have one crt
2018-10-28T01:10:41 < kakimir> money and politics is why muricans use 110V
2018-10-28T01:11:28 < Steffanx> aussie pound?
2018-10-28T01:11:56 < Steffanx> why aussieland has dollars crt and no pounds?
2018-10-28T01:12:02 < Steffanx> you have the same queen right?
2018-10-28T01:12:04 < kakimir> some company needed to sell more copper
2018-10-28T01:12:53 < Steffanx> englishman why canada has dollars and no pounds, you have the same queen right?
2018-10-28T01:14:28 < kakimir> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaconda_Copper
2018-10-28T01:14:32 < dongs> is there such thing as a combination BT audio + BLE serial module
2018-10-28T01:15:30 < dongs> https://www.ebay.com/itm/171312750840 someshit like this but i think these are audio only?
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2018-10-28T01:18:01 < Steffanx> BLE serial does not exist. At least no SPP as with the full bluetooth stuff.
2018-10-28T01:19:27 < dongs> uh sure it does? what are all those bt serial modules then
2018-10-28T01:19:56 < dongs> like HC-08 etc
2018-10-28T01:20:34 < dongs> https://www.mcucity.com/product/2287/hc-08-bluetooth-master-slave-module-transceiver-for-arduino-compatible-with-ios-and-android (random google link
2018-10-28T01:20:48 < Steffanx> BLE is part of Bluetooth 4.0.
2018-10-28T01:20:49 < dongs> there'sd different variations of that shit with like just 4 pins vcc/rx/tx/gnd
2018-10-28T01:22:20 < Steffanx> So what they show is not BLE or uses a custom serial like service
2018-10-28T01:24:10 < zyp> englishman, judging by the socket type, that looks like laurence's shower
2018-10-28T01:34:57 < Steffanx> dongs, based on the description in the playstore of the used app, they might very well be using BLE with their own/vendor specific GATT service.
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2018-10-28T01:47:44 < Steffanx> this one claims to do audio + spp dongs, but i just 3.0: https://www.silabs.com/products/wireless/bluetooth/bluetooth-classic-modules/wt32i-bluetooth-audio-module
2018-10-28T01:47:50 < Steffanx> "just"
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2018-10-28T01:49:45 < Steffanx> and costs a bit more
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2018-10-28T01:58:42 < Steffanx> watching kaysan again?
2018-10-28T01:59:16 < Steffanx> kasyan?
2018-10-28T02:02:06 < Ultrasauce> more like https://youtu.be/GQJWcp8EcrE?t=14
2018-10-28T02:05:05 < Steffanx> no no, kasyan says it too in that video Ultrasauce
2018-10-28T02:05:10 < Steffanx> "Make it pump more"
2018-10-28T02:06:24 < Steffanx> https://youtu.be/E3SLxR1TRvg?t=452
2018-10-28T02:06:36 < Steffanx> its even "You can pump more"
2018-10-28T02:08:52 < Steffanx> Hows your stm32 lately Ultrasauce?
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2018-10-28T02:14:41 < Ultrasauce> i havent touched a damn mcu in like a year
2018-10-28T02:14:45 < Ultrasauce> gonna change that soon
2018-10-28T02:15:23 < Ultrasauce> actually that's not exactly true. taught a friend how to tarduino
2018-10-28T02:16:57 < BrainDamage> you plan to build a catapult to launch mcus?
2018-10-28T02:17:20 < Ultrasauce> a trebuchet, thanks
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2018-10-28T02:57:45 < Laurenceb124> oh wow
2018-10-28T02:57:48 < Laurenceb124> shit got real
2018-10-28T02:57:59 < Laurenceb124> norf fc are fucking dead
2018-10-28T02:59:19 < con3> Laurenceb124: what's going on?
2018-10-28T03:01:08 < Laurenceb124> helicopter crashed
2018-10-28T03:01:25 < con3> shit..
2018-10-28T03:01:47 < Laurenceb124> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-46006470
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2018-10-28T03:04:50 < con3> fuck...
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2018-10-28T03:11:17 < Laurenceb124> https://postimg.cc/sBYQ47Yf
2018-10-28T03:11:31 < Laurenceb124> not sure if trap
2018-10-28T03:15:01 < jadew> no tits...
2018-10-28T03:16:08 < jadew> real women have tits
2018-10-28T03:17:03 -!- kuldeep [~kuldeep@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-28T03:17:03 < jadew> lmfao, if you google "real women", you get images of obese chicks
2018-10-28T03:17:35 < jadew> ah, they're not all obese
2018-10-28T03:17:37 < jadew> just chubby
2018-10-28T03:19:12 < jadew> I went out today and I can testify that most women are hot
2018-10-28T03:19:44 < jadew> like... 90% of them are hotter than anything on that results page
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2018-10-28T05:09:42 < bitmask> grrr my resume has to be rewritten, wtf is this ats shit :/
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2018-10-28T05:15:57 < bitmask> a button on a vcr
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2018-10-28T06:57:33 < jadew> any ideas on some PID controller ICs?
2018-10-28T07:09:03 < jadew> I don't want to use a MCU, too much noise
2018-10-28T07:09:54 < jadew> yeah
2018-10-28T07:10:03 < jadew> already made one and it works almost perfect
2018-10-28T07:10:17 < jadew> yeah
2018-10-28T07:10:29 < jadew> but it suffers from integrator windup
2018-10-28T07:10:46 < jadew> it works great, meets the bw requirements, but has overshoot
2018-10-28T07:11:28 < jadew> I could clip the output of the integrator with a transistor, but I thought that maybe I can reduce part count too
2018-10-28T07:11:46 < jadew> it uses 12 opamps
2018-10-28T07:12:19 < jadew> on PID?
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2018-10-28T07:15:02 < jadew> not bad for a wife...
2018-10-28T07:15:27 < jadew> she can help you tune your controller
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2018-10-28T08:19:24 < jpa-> mawk: how will you debug it then?
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2018-10-28T10:20:49 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/JAn4KC4.jpg
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2018-10-28T11:34:47 < dongs> bluenigga
2018-10-28T11:39:18 < Steffanx> Perhaps you and i should pull it down a bit. The pumping, mr crt.
2018-10-28T11:40:15 < Ultrasauce> down and then up again?
2018-10-28T11:40:18 < Ultrasauce> and then down and then up
2018-10-28T11:40:27 < Steffanx> Nah
2018-10-28T11:40:57 < Steffanx> I was very serious this time Ultrasauce 
2018-10-28T11:44:53 < dongs> https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1056217811368857603/pu/vid/540x960/E7OUM-Ce8-PW91yt.mp4 japs being japs
2018-10-28T11:45:23 < Sadale> I've got a question.
2018-10-28T11:46:10 < dongs> hello
2018-10-28T11:46:20 < Sadale> I've noticed that in that blue pill module (the STM32F103C8T6 one), it has a 20R resistor connected in between the microUSB port and the USB signal pins of the microcontroller, including D+ and D- pins. What's the use of those two resistors?
2018-10-28T11:46:22 < dongs> pump-per-view
2018-10-28T11:46:31 < Sadale> Here's schematics: https://wiki.stm32duino.com/images/c/c1/Vcc-gnd.com-STM32F103C8-schematic.pdf
2018-10-28T11:46:35 < dongs> the use is its supposed to be 22R
2018-10-28T11:46:36 < dongs> per USB spec.
2018-10-28T11:46:46 < Sadale> dongs, wow. car flip
2018-10-28T11:46:51 < dongs> it can be omitted without much care usually
2018-10-28T11:47:05 < dongs> some STMs dont need them.
2018-10-28T11:47:09 < dongs> some "do"
2018-10-28T11:47:13 < dongs> all will work without them
2018-10-28T11:47:14 < Sadale> I see.
2018-10-28T11:47:31 < Sadale> thanks :)
2018-10-28T11:47:32 < dongs> its something about ringing on the lines or wahtever. same purpose as serial ressitor on highspeed line.
2018-10-28T11:47:46 < dongs> er serial = series
2018-10-28T11:49:00 < Sadale> I see. How high speed it can reach without those series resistors?
2018-10-28T12:22:00 < dongs> the max you can get out of 12mbit usb 2.0 fullspeed.
2018-10-28T12:27:22 < dongs> my LameSDR arrived
2018-10-28T12:29:25 < Steffanx> Better get tarduinoing
2018-10-28T12:29:38 < dongs> defini
2018-10-28T12:29:39 < dongs> tely
2018-10-28T12:38:59 < antto> could be worse..
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2018-10-28T12:52:24 < dongs> crt: is KRK powered monitors easily fixable just by loooking at? this one has bass missing
2018-10-28T12:52:49 < dongs> rokit 5 if that matters
2018-10-28T13:07:04 < Steffanx> Crt is dead.
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2018-10-28T13:10:22 < mawk> spread his ashes over the black sea Steffanx 
2018-10-28T13:12:10 < Steffanx> I'd suggest the dead sea, to make it even more salty, mawk 
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2018-10-28T14:16:36 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ylvc8Zj8
2018-10-28T14:17:15 < Steffanx> special song for kakimir: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBSELrm2-g0
2018-10-28T14:18:17 < PeterM> i thought this was more kakimir https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdi3ZSn86kw 
2018-10-28T14:20:34 < kakimir> weird stuff but yeah
2018-10-28T14:21:57 < PeterM> really? i thought that guy was actually pretty talented, he seems to enunciate well and at the same time has a great flow
2018-10-28T14:22:35 < PeterM> im not suggesting this is high class music or anything
2018-10-28T14:25:38 < Steffanx> im sure someone likes it.
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2018-10-28T15:26:57 < karlp> I did.
2018-10-28T15:43:23  * BrainDamage sips tea
2018-10-28T15:50:53 < Steffanx> just tea?
2018-10-28T15:52:57 < BrainDamage> 0.5L mug of pu er tea, and 4 teaspoons of sugar
2018-10-28T15:53:35 < Steffanx> More sugar than a stroopwafel. *Diabetus alert*
2018-10-28T15:53:48 < Steffanx> ( Not true but .. :P )
2018-10-28T15:54:24 < BrainDamage> I had my my blood analysis done the other week, in terms of glycemic index and spare glucose in the urines I'm rock solid
2018-10-28T15:57:27 < englishman> crystalline, almost
2018-10-28T15:58:02 < BrainDamage> well, then the hospital must've screwed up
2018-10-28T16:03:27 < Steffanx> yeah
2018-10-28T16:04:05 < Steffanx> people getting better etc. is all a placebo effect.
2018-10-28T16:06:23 < Steffanx> Swiss mentality kicked in fast, superbia 
2018-10-28T16:09:08 < Steffanx> Insurance doesnt mean its all free.
2018-10-28T16:09:54 < Steffanx> Semi-experimental or non-accepted treatment isnt even close to covered in dutchland
2018-10-28T16:10:38 < Steffanx> Even when it is accepted and proven to work in other EU countries
2018-10-28T16:11:13 < Steffanx> And then there is this "own risk" stuff
2018-10-28T16:11:22 < BrainDamage> pretty sure unless it's extremely specialized procedures, it's people coming here to get cured rather than viceversa
2018-10-28T16:11:58 < BrainDamage> we suck in many things, but we have the 2nd best healthcare system in the world by almost every metric
2018-10-28T16:12:25 < BrainDamage> granted, it's also 10% of your GDP
2018-10-28T16:13:26 < BrainDamage> our*
2018-10-28T16:13:36 < mawk> who's the first
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2018-10-28T16:15:16 < BrainDamage> I don't remember I read it it in 2010, so it likely has changed
2018-10-28T16:15:18 < Steffanx> my googling doesnt show italy in any list, BrainDamage :P
2018-10-28T16:15:28 < mawk> France must be the first
2018-10-28T16:15:35 < Steffanx> lol
2018-10-28T16:15:37 < englishman> italy doesn't exist
2018-10-28T16:15:47 < BrainDamage> I thought finland doesn't exist
2018-10-28T16:15:48 < mawk> they pay me 400€/month of methadone for free
2018-10-28T16:15:56 < mawk> almost free
2018-10-28T16:16:03 < englishman> wouldn't that make France the last
2018-10-28T16:16:04 < mawk> for 40% taxation for my whole active life
2018-10-28T16:16:17 < BrainDamage> 52% taxation here
2018-10-28T16:16:17 < Steffanx> i still feel sorry for you mawk
2018-10-28T16:19:50 < Steffanx> in my world romania is gypsyland, superbia
2018-10-28T16:19:56 < mawk> yes
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2018-10-28T16:20:13 < mawk> :(
2018-10-28T16:20:18 < mawk> there are two types of french
2018-10-28T16:20:39 < mawk> the commoners which descend from the romans, and the aristocracy which descend from the Franks, a german peuplade
2018-10-28T16:20:48 < mawk> the commoners are the gypsies
2018-10-28T16:22:06 < BrainDamage> there's a saying here, "there's no worse racist than an immigrant"
2018-10-28T16:22:27 < BrainDamage> because they have to feel they have to distance themselves from the "scum" they ran away from
2018-10-28T16:24:54 < englishman> do they give degrees in comp sci now
2018-10-28T16:25:41 < mawk> our recent sayings/catchphrases are a bit different
2018-10-28T16:25:46 < mawk> I hear them in media all the time
2018-10-28T16:25:58 < mawk> like "immigration is a luck for France", or "immigration is a wealth"
2018-10-28T16:26:07 < mawk> they take the exact same phrase and repeat it over and over
2018-10-28T16:26:12 < mawk> it feels like hypnotization
2018-10-28T16:26:16 < karlp> perjhaps because it's mostly true...
2018-10-28T16:26:29 < mawk> yeah maybe
2018-10-28T16:26:37 < mawk> but I don't like good ideas being presented by bad people
2018-10-28T16:26:37 < englishman> hey you found out about fake news
2018-10-28T16:26:47 < mawk> so in principe I'm opposing that thing
2018-10-28T16:26:49 < karlp> if the ideas are good, don't get upset abotu them.
2018-10-28T16:26:51 < englishman> retweeting what they are told to say
2018-10-28T16:26:59 < karlp> if you're opposed to good ideas because bad people say them, you're a bad person...
2018-10-28T16:27:11 < englishman> you're also supposed to believe the Chinese put spy chips in thousands of motherboards
2018-10-28T16:27:40 < mawk> good ideas are good within a scheme, if a good scheme and a bad scheme intersect at a single good idea and that idea is presented by someone, we don't know from which scheme it's being taken from
2018-10-28T16:27:44 < Steffanx> Supposed to believe?!
2018-10-28T16:28:05 < mawk> if we take one step forward and two backwards we didn't advance
2018-10-28T16:28:32 < karlp> that's clearly not " ag ood idea" then isi it?
2018-10-28T16:28:41 < mawk> yes superbia
2018-10-28T16:28:59 < englishman> https://lcsc.com/search?q=spy%20chip
2018-10-28T16:29:28 < mawk> you're french too superbia ?
2018-10-28T16:29:33 < mawk> çççççç
2018-10-28T16:29:40 < englishman> saperlipopette
2018-10-28T16:29:43 < mawk> lol
2018-10-28T16:29:53 < mawk> çÇéÉàÀèÈœŒ
2018-10-28T16:29:59 < mawk> take these
2018-10-28T16:30:58 < mawk> you can't guess hidden intentions karlp 
2018-10-28T16:31:08 < mawk> at least easily
2018-10-28T16:31:28 < mawk> yes superbia 
2018-10-28T16:31:30 < mawk> you use it ?
2018-10-28T16:31:43 < mawk> I had a mech keyboard but my gf got mad at the sound it made
2018-10-28T16:32:13 < englishman> to mawk it is a normal clavier to the rest it's a horrible abortion
2018-10-28T16:32:22 < mawk> yeah I saw superbia 
2018-10-28T16:32:22 < jadew> they didn't have money for a custom mould?
2018-10-28T16:32:32 < mawk> englishman :(
2018-10-28T16:32:40 < mawk> all of my co-students use qwerty to code
2018-10-28T16:32:47 < mawk> but I like my altgr-4 for {
2018-10-28T16:32:53 < mawk> or altgr-+ for }
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2018-10-28T16:35:20 < jadew> keyboards without the windows key are useless
2018-10-28T16:36:16 < BrainDamage> pretty sure alt is not meta
2018-10-28T16:36:18 < BrainDamage> I have both
2018-10-28T16:36:24 < mawk> you can configure it
2018-10-28T16:36:27 < mawk> maybe
2018-10-28T16:36:35 < mawk> in my xterm conf I have an option AltIsMeta
2018-10-28T16:37:16 < mawk> ah
2018-10-28T16:37:25 < jadew> yeah, but unix is useless too, so it doesn't matter
2018-10-28T16:37:28 < mawk> I thought meta was an editor/readline artifact
2018-10-28T16:37:41 < jadew> also, the fact that they chose to name the windows key something else is very funny
2018-10-28T16:37:53 < mawk> maybe it's not from windows
2018-10-28T16:37:58 < mawk> see that apple logo key too
2018-10-28T16:39:33 < mawk> you have a maths background BrainDamage ?
2018-10-28T16:39:34 < jadew> as for alt, on windows it's also differentiated between the left and right alt
2018-10-28T16:39:49 < mawk> you mean the altgr key ? 
2018-10-28T16:39:56 < mawk> or some keyboards have two alts and altgr
2018-10-28T16:40:08 < jadew> mawk, as I recall, altgr is something like alt+ctrl, no?
2018-10-28T16:40:14 < jadew> on my keyboard, I only have alt
2018-10-28T16:40:17 < mawk> it's a physical key named altgr
2018-10-28T16:40:23 < BrainDamage> mawk: I'm just a stupid EE
2018-10-28T16:40:25 < mawk> on every single keyboard I've had
2018-10-28T16:40:28 < jadew> the left alt is alt, the right alt is alt with an extended flag
2018-10-28T16:40:32 < mawk> maybe it's an azerty thing
2018-10-28T16:40:57 < jadew> mawk, I know, I had it on an IBM-M too (it was french, but I don't think that matters)
2018-10-28T16:41:52 < mawk> my maths knowledge is falling apart and I'm wondering if there's some intersection of theoretical maths and electronics
2018-10-28T16:42:13 < BrainDamage> depends on the topic?
2018-10-28T16:42:16 < jadew> ttyl
2018-10-28T16:42:23 < mawk> yeah I'm looking for that topic
2018-10-28T16:42:30 < BrainDamage> control theory is a domain of theoretical math for instance
2018-10-28T16:42:36 < BrainDamage> or harmonic analysis
2018-10-28T16:42:39 < BrainDamage> dynamic systems
2018-10-28T16:42:56 < BrainDamage> topology if you want to analyze circuits on a very abstract level, etc
2018-10-28T16:42:59 < mawk> the maths I liked to do was stuff like topology and differential geometry
2018-10-28T16:43:15 < BrainDamage> differential geometry won't be much of a use
2018-10-28T16:43:56 < BrainDamage> you'll find the topology used for circuit analysis will be rather trivial though
2018-10-28T16:44:29 < englishman> maybe RF shiz
2018-10-28T16:44:39 < englishman> if you aren't just plugging shit into a model
2018-10-28T16:44:43 < BrainDamage> RF is mostly diff equations
2018-10-28T16:44:45 < englishman> but actually making shit
2018-10-28T16:45:20 < BrainDamage> altough much more "interesting" math than plain circuits
2018-10-28T16:46:02 < englishman> allows for some creativity too
2018-10-28T16:46:20 < BrainDamage> semiconductor devices also can have plenty more interesting math, from bloch wave solutions to the hamilton operator, to phonons, etc
2018-10-28T16:46:29 < mawk> yeah
2018-10-28T16:46:45 < BrainDamage> however semiconductor devices pretty much means you'll be seeking a carreer in certain industry
2018-10-28T16:48:00 < zyp> sup?
2018-10-28T16:48:11 < BrainDamage> broth to you too
2018-10-28T16:48:18 < zyp> :)
2018-10-28T16:48:56 < zyp> did some more kitchen assembly today
2018-10-28T16:48:58 < mawk> I learnt the word "broth" for the first time like 30 minutes ago
2018-10-28T16:49:01 < mawk> for my split peas recipe
2018-10-28T16:49:09 < mawk> and now for the 2nd time of my life I see it here
2018-10-28T16:49:13 < mawk> it must be a sign from god
2018-10-28T16:49:22 < zyp> there's a name for that
2018-10-28T16:49:59 < zyp> ah, it's the baader-meinhof phenomenon
2018-10-28T16:53:04 < zyp> did some more kitchen assembly today: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Pjf01.jpg
2018-10-28T16:53:43 < zyp> adjusting everything to line up looks like it's gonna be fun
2018-10-28T16:54:00 < zyp> gonna get started on that tomorrow when the rest of the parts arrives
2018-10-28T17:06:40 < aandrew> jadew: hyper/meta were around long before Windows was a thing
2018-10-28T17:06:58 < zyp> regarding keyboard keys, the standard modifier keys in HID are Control, Shift, Alt and GUI, and they are both have a Left and Right variant that are reported independently
2018-10-28T17:07:48 < zyp> description of the Left GUI key states «Windowing environment key, examples are Microsoft Left Win key, Mac Left Apple key, Sun Left Meta key»
2018-10-28T17:08:48 < zyp> I don't know the full history here, but that sounds to me like the «meta» name came from Sun
2018-10-28T17:10:11 < zyp> AltGr isn't a separate key, it's how some keyboard layouts treat Right Alt
2018-10-28T17:13:03 < aandrew> what is "gr" in altgr?
2018-10-28T17:13:07 < aandrew> alternative... graphic?
2018-10-28T17:13:11 < aandrew> grammar?
2018-10-28T17:15:27 < mawk> yes graphic aandrew iirc
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2018-10-28T19:19:33 < PaulFertser> arm.com doesn't provide binaries for their arm-none-eabi toolchain for ARM host systems, wtf...
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2018-10-28T19:34:04 < Steffanx> Hah, lol.
2018-10-28T19:35:59 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_RvnqVHbnA
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2018-10-28T19:40:54 < Steffanx> :)
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2018-10-28T19:54:53 < englishman> nice
2018-10-28T19:54:56 < englishman> attn lux
2018-10-28T19:55:30 < Lux> allready saw that yesterday :)
2018-10-28T19:56:12 < Lux> pretty nice design
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2018-10-28T20:03:33 < Steffanx> Lux is a 3d printed guy?
2018-10-28T20:08:19 < Lux> i did an autoeject mechanism for my 3d printer 
2018-10-28T20:08:35 < aandrew> I am envisioning a spring loaded heated bed
2018-10-28T20:08:43 < Lux> had to print like 200 pcs for a startup
2018-10-28T20:08:48 < Lux> https://www.dropbox.com/s/67ywglccyb3rg3p/VID_20180305_001711.mp4?dl=0
2018-10-28T20:08:57 < Lux> pretty hacky, but worked well for ~200 pcs
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2018-10-28T20:18:19 < Steffanx> ah
2018-10-28T20:22:30 < Steffanx> easy and effective it seems, Lux
2018-10-28T20:25:17 < aandrew> Lux: interesting; how is it not sticking like crazy to the bed?
2018-10-28T20:25:49 < aandrew> +1 for the duct taped motherboard frame
2018-10-28T20:34:08 < jadew> I have the same question
2018-10-28T20:36:37 < jadew> it wouldn't come off easily from my printing bed
2018-10-28T20:36:57 < jadew> maybe it's not heated?
2018-10-28T20:37:14 < jadew> and made of some extra smooth material?
2018-10-28T20:38:58 < aandrew> I'm not an expert but if it's not stickign to the bed it's also not printing well
2018-10-28T20:39:05 < aandrew> so I'm very interested in knowing his secret
2018-10-28T20:39:37 < PaulFertser> For me ABS sticks nicely with 90-100C bed (covered with thin layer of PVA glue) but then it's losing all the adhesion when cooled to 40C or so.
2018-10-28T20:42:09 < aandrew> oh, didn't occur to me this might be abs
2018-10-28T20:42:19 < aandrew> most abs setups I've seen have the printer in a box to try to keep the heat in
2018-10-28T20:42:23 < PaulFertser> Also, Lux's part is round so I'd say it requires much less adhesion than some rectangular parts.
2018-10-28T20:42:47 < aandrew> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1327093 I've printed almost all the parts for that
2018-10-28T20:42:50 < aandrew> for my son
2018-10-28T20:43:08 < PaulFertser> I'm printing small parts without an enclosure, seems to work ok.
2018-10-28T20:43:31 < aandrew> I'm having a hell of a time with the high pressure fans; it's very well and truly glued down to the bed but about halfway through it will pull itself apart because the fins are all single extrusions
2018-10-28T20:43:34 < jadew> I've never printed ABS
2018-10-28T20:43:58 < aandrew> so the first few are very solidly stuck to the bed, then a few mm up it' breaks because the material above it is warping and pulling it apart
2018-10-28T20:44:21 < aandrew> tried printing at different bed temps, different extruder temps, I can't seem to prevent it from warping within a few layers of the usual breaking point
2018-10-28T20:44:50 < aandrew> only thing I can think of now is to maybe put the printer in a styrofoam box and try to keep the entire printer at 40C
2018-10-28T20:45:00 < aandrew> my bed temp is usually 60C 
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2018-10-28T20:49:39 < Lux> aandrew: cause it's a pei(ulterm) covered bed
2018-10-28T20:50:21 < Lux> heat it to 60-70°C and pla sticks well, below 25°C there is almost no adhesion and the part just pops off
2018-10-28T20:50:42 < Lux> though that only works really well for pla
2018-10-28T20:50:46 < aandrew> interesting
2018-10-28T20:51:06 < aandrew> I've got a glass bed (mirror) for flatness and then just have painter's tape which works good for adhesion
2018-10-28T20:51:07 < Lux> abs is ok too, but you have to heat to like 130-140°C for the first layer
2018-10-28T20:51:14 < aandrew> doesn't matter if I tear the tape, it's cheap
2018-10-28T20:51:24 < Lux> yeah, that works for printing any material
2018-10-28T20:51:42 < aandrew> ultem is the name of the material?
2018-10-28T20:51:47 < Lux> exactly
2018-10-28T20:52:23 < Lux> there are some german shops selling ultem covered aluminum beds for around 60euros
2018-10-28T20:52:38 < aandrew> interesting, thanks for the info
2018-10-28T20:52:44 < Lux> the process it's self is rather nasty, cause they use some cancerous solvent for ultem
2018-10-28T20:53:00 < Lux> coating the aluminium that is
2018-10-28T20:53:26 < Lux> aandrew: https://reprap.org/wiki/PEI_build_surface
2018-10-28T20:54:50 < Lux> that's what I'm using: http://clever3d.de/epages/7a4290fc-7c7f-46cc-9b99-eadef22228e2.sf/en_US/?ViewObjectPath=%2FShops%2F7a4290fc-7c7f-46cc-9b99-eadef22228e2%2FProducts%2Fc3d-DDP-PEI-natur
2018-10-28T20:54:54 < jadew> my bed also has a PEI surface and a part like that would be difficult to remove even after it cooled
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2018-10-28T20:56:33 < Lux> only if the first layer is too low it might stick
2018-10-28T20:56:57 < jadew> in height?
2018-10-28T20:56:58 < Lux> but usually at sub 20°C it allways comes off easily
2018-10-28T20:57:12 < Lux> yeah if you squish it too much 
2018-10-28T20:57:21 < jadew> I do, that must be it
2018-10-28T20:57:58 < Lux> probably, it'll stick well either way so usually there is no need
2018-10-28T21:00:56 < aandrew> yeah I found out after a bunch of printing that I should squish the first layer a little less. :-)
2018-10-28T21:01:24 < aandrew> it's hard to level the ender 3's bed with just the four knobs and have it flat across all corners and the middle
2018-10-28T21:01:38 < aandrew> pretty sure the alu is a little warped, but the mirror clamped on to the surface helps
2018-10-28T21:03:36 < jadew> isn't it possible to add auto-leveling to pretty much any printer these days?
2018-10-28T21:03:50 < jadew> all you need is one of those sensors, no?
2018-10-28T21:07:55 < aandrew> ender 3 is not auto levelling
2018-10-28T21:08:07 < aandrew> I do have a sensor for it (bought separately) but have not wired it up
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2018-10-28T23:24:07 < Steffanx> Uh?
2018-10-28T23:28:31 < mawk> what's signal pinning in cube mx
2018-10-28T23:29:47 < mawk> it displays a nice pin, but that's all
2018-10-28T23:31:06 < Steffanx> Ive no clue what youre talking about :P
2018-10-28T23:31:44 < zyp> that's ok, have another kitchen pic instead: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/uBvLq.jpg
2018-10-28T23:32:33 < zyp> what's the definition of «loft» in english really?
2018-10-28T23:33:53 < mawk> that thing Steffanx https://pix.watch/DkBSFG/MowBCK.png
2018-10-28T23:34:17 < mawk> all the pins
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2018-10-28T23:35:31 < mawk> the litteral pins
2018-10-28T23:35:59 < jadew> mawk, IIRC it's for fixing a signal to a pin
2018-10-28T23:36:09 < jadew> so when you enable/disable features, it won't change its position
2018-10-28T23:36:11 < mawk> for what purpose ?
2018-10-28T23:36:11 < mawk> ah
2018-10-28T23:36:13 < mawk> I see
2018-10-28T23:36:14 < mawk> thanks
2018-10-28T23:36:20 < jadew> np
2018-10-28T23:40:59 < zyp> superbia, walls aren't angled, ceiling is :p
2018-10-28T23:44:29 < zyp> superbia, your use of the term is a bit confusing to me because to me a loft is a room _in_ the roof, not just directly under it
2018-10-28T23:45:53 < zyp> http://avforum.no/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=61758&stc=1&d=1265575704 <- like the room they're getting on the second floor in this garage
2018-10-28T23:52:45 < catphish> i thought i'd have a look at doing some DCC, trying to find a magic IC that does full-bridge + overcurrent protection at enough amps for a train set
--- Day changed Mon Oct 29 2018
2018-10-29T00:03:20 < mawk> why does it need to be in the same IC ?
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2018-10-29T00:05:04 < catphish> simplicity, for starters having the current protection in the same IC means it'll be near impossible to break it
2018-10-29T00:05:36 < catphish> anyway, looks like 5A or so is plenty, and there's ICs that can do it all at those kind of currents
2018-10-29T00:06:11 < zyp> what sort of scale is this? HO?
2018-10-29T00:07:27 < catphish> OO
2018-10-29T00:07:34 < catphish> it's a UK thing
2018-10-29T00:07:44 < zyp> yeah, I just found out that on wikipedia
2018-10-29T00:07:48 < catphish> oh, same track anyway
2018-10-29T00:08:15 < zyp> «HO is the most popular model railroad scale in both continental Europe and North America, whereas OO scale (4 mm:foot or 1:76.2 with 16.5 mm track) is still dominant in Britain.»
2018-10-29T00:08:33 < catphish> british people are weird
2018-10-29T00:08:58 < catphish> people say 1A per train is a safe estimate, and modern engines use 200mA
2018-10-29T00:09:27 < zyp> HO/OO seems kinda big
2018-10-29T00:09:50 < catphish> it's all i've ever known
2018-10-29T00:10:08 < catphish> i'd heard of N, didnt' realise it was so much smaller
2018-10-29T00:10:45 < zyp> my stuff is N scale and I feel even N scale takes a lot of space
2018-10-29T00:10:59 < catphish> this will do the job https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/power/motor-control-ics/intelligent-motor-control-ics/integrated-full-bridge-driver/ifx9201sg/
2018-10-29T00:11:12 < catphish> and it's like $3
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2018-10-29T00:11:52 < zyp> how long are OO trains usually?
2018-10-29T00:11:56 < zyp> in number of carriages
2018-10-29T00:12:34 < catphish> 4-5 including engines is typical i think
2018-10-29T00:13:40 < catphish> http://c0728562.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/TY316_HR.jpg
2018-10-29T00:13:59 < zyp> I see
2018-10-29T00:14:40 < aandrew> stmicro has a bunch of different STSPIN chips too
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2018-10-29T00:20:00 < zyp> catphish, even at N scale shit gets pretty crazy when you start running the actual length of modern trains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRCowo9NP5Y
2018-10-29T00:20:19 < catphish> wooow
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2018-10-29T00:20:38 < catphish> yeah england has smaller trains :)
2018-10-29T00:20:52 < catphish> only our freight trains are that long afaik
2018-10-29T00:21:25 < zyp> this stuff is usually split into sets, with a «starter pack» containing the first and last and some middle carriages
2018-10-29T00:21:43 < zyp> and then extension sets to get the full length if you can fit it :p
2018-10-29T00:22:00 < catphish> n scale does look a bit saner really
2018-10-29T00:23:06 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/IXxjg.JPG <- the stuff I have are two starter packs
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2018-10-29T00:24:14 < zyp> full length of the grey one is 11 carriages
2018-10-29T00:24:36 < zyp> full length of the red one is 6, but in the real world it runs most of the distance as two coupled sets, i.e. 12 in total
2018-10-29T00:25:33 < catphish> cool
2018-10-29T00:26:13 < zyp> red one is «narita express», running between narita airport and tokyo
2018-10-29T00:26:45 < zyp> it runs as one train until it gets to central tokyo and then it splits and each half take a different route
2018-10-29T00:26:48 < catphish> on an unrelated note, i hope to be picking and placing soon https://i.imgur.com/OweI8sS.mp4
2018-10-29T00:27:06 < zyp> nice
2018-10-29T00:27:45 < catphish> i can barely even remember why i wanted to build it now
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2018-10-29T00:27:51 < catphish> but it's pretty cool
2018-10-29T00:28:05 < catphish> i'm so easily distracted
2018-10-29T00:29:17 < catphish> i'm looking at DCC controllers, i guess the challenge would mostly be building some kind of UI
2018-10-29T00:31:58 < jadew> I now know what I think about yellow solder mask
2018-10-29T00:32:05 < jadew> it's great for prototypes
2018-10-29T00:32:13 < catphish> sounds ugly :)
2018-10-29T00:32:19 < jadew> it's very ugly
2018-10-29T00:32:33 < jadew> but you can see the tracks better than with any other color
2018-10-29T00:32:41 < jadew> it's almost like it's not even there
2018-10-29T00:32:44 < catphish> sounds like it would look like old school brown pcb
2018-10-29T00:33:08 < catphish> well that's handy i guess
2018-10-29T00:33:12 < jadew> yeah, that's what it looks like
2018-10-29T00:33:25 < jadew> and the traces look orange
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2018-10-29T00:37:43 < catphish> zyp: this thing looks interesting by the way http://plauffs.de/arc/arc1/
2018-10-29T00:38:25 < catphish> i was put off by no published source code though
2018-10-29T00:39:43 < zyp> heh
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2018-10-29T01:18:10 < Steffanx> No irc during work mate...
2018-10-29T01:33:47 < catphish> indeed
2018-10-29T01:45:53 < aandrew> there's a railroad club near here: https://waterlooregionmodelrailwayclub.ca/
2018-10-29T01:46:05 < aandrew> pretty crazy all the work they've done in there
2018-10-29T01:46:11 < aandrew> I had a contract with a guy who was part of that club
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2018-10-29T02:32:01 < Laurenceb124> https://community.screwfix.com/threads/render-mix.5066/page-2#post-256308
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2018-10-29T02:34:32 < Laurenceb124> this forum looks fun to troll
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2018-10-29T03:27:29 < Laurenceb124> render mix war now, cement pride world wide, gas the irish
2018-10-29T03:28:50 < Laurenceb124> > The Ancient Egyptians were the first to use lime mortars
2018-10-29T03:28:52 < Laurenceb124> hol up
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2018-10-29T03:58:35 < dongs> is there a standard size (height, specifically) for china 30mm fans
2018-10-29T03:59:07 < dongs> i see 30x30x7 and 30x30x10
2018-10-29T03:59:23 < dongs> of course aidsfruit has a 30x8 as well
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2018-10-29T04:03:07 < aandrew> the "depth" of the fans have several common sizes
2018-10-29T04:03:38 < aandrew> I think 12mm is another depth that's common
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2018-10-29T08:39:59 < emeb_mac> there are good cats on both sides
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2018-10-29T09:42:20 < tctw> morning internet people
2018-10-29T09:42:24 < tctw> sup?
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2018-10-29T09:49:54 < tctw> ack @ monday thing
2018-10-29T09:50:12 < tctw> time for a redbull I guess
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2018-10-29T10:19:25 < jadew> yes!
2018-10-29T10:44:35 < zyp> so you say
2018-10-29T10:52:48 < zyp> hi crt
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2018-10-29T12:15:49 < marble_visions> i forgot, what's the deal with #stm32? 
2018-10-29T12:15:54 < marble_visions> Steffanx: 
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2018-10-29T12:25:51 < karlp> marble_visions: there is no "deal" it's just freenode policy
2018-10-29T12:26:02 < karlp> only a trademark holder can have #brand.
2018-10-29T12:26:48 < marble_visions> sure but why is Steffanx in #stm32 as well? does stm have actual presence here?
2018-10-29T12:27:15 < marble_visions> i see #stm32 is taken, that's why i got curious
2018-10-29T12:27:39 < karlp> it's not really taken though, it's more blocked.
2018-10-29T12:29:30 < marble_visions> oh. ok
2018-10-29T12:29:38 < marble_visions> makes sense
2018-10-29T12:30:08 < kakimir> what is that yellow stuff called used on pcbs?
2018-10-29T12:31:40 < jadew> "one does not simply join #stm32"
2018-10-29T12:32:05 < jadew> kakimir, what yellow stuff?
2018-10-29T12:33:34 < kakimir> it can be used to bond stuff
2018-10-29T12:33:39 < kakimir> or cover stuff
2018-10-29T12:33:52 < jadew> hot glue?
2018-10-29T12:34:02 < kakimir> idk
2018-10-29T12:34:09 < jadew> that's usually white
2018-10-29T12:34:33 < kakimir> I have seen that stuff also applied with numeric control on top of smd components
2018-10-29T12:34:50 < kakimir> idk if same stuff or different stuff
2018-10-29T12:35:18 < jadew> I can't remember anything yellow...
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2018-10-29T12:35:51 < kakimir> chinese use it
2018-10-29T12:36:04 < kakimir> no this is not while celastic
2018-10-29T12:36:24 < kakimir> this is harder material
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2018-10-29T12:48:40 < Steffanx> Yeah, it was #stm32 in the past marble_visions 
2018-10-29T12:48:47 < Steffanx> We just "kept" it.
2018-10-29T12:48:58 < Steffanx> It is supposed to redirect to ##
2018-10-29T12:49:53 < karlp> it used to,
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2018-10-29T13:15:39 < Steffanx> It resets when the channel is empty for an x time
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2018-10-29T13:30:09 < jadew> any ideas on how to decide if two signals are reasonably close in amplitude, with less than a differential amplifier, two comparators and an or gate?
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2018-10-29T13:33:58 < jpa-> jadew: slightly less could be this absolute difference circuit  https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4374814/Dual-op-amp-takes-absolute-difference
2018-10-29T13:34:26 < jadew> neat, thanks
2018-10-29T13:35:22 < jpa-> the second opamp is just an amplifier so you could repurpose it as a comparator
2018-10-29T13:35:28 < jpa-> .. maybe
2018-10-29T13:35:35 < aandrew> jadew: depends on a few things
2018-10-29T13:35:48 < jpa-> not sure if that would mess up the feedback
2018-10-29T13:36:15 < aandrew> if they're in phase and referenced to ground, a pair of voltage dividers and a (schmitt-triggered) OR gate might do it
2018-10-29T13:36:24 < jadew> jpa-, it might, since the output is fed back to the neg input of the first opamp
2018-10-29T13:36:37 < jpa-> yeah
2018-10-29T13:37:19 < jadew> aandrew, how would that work?
2018-10-29T13:38:08 < aandrew> you ratio them down so that they "fit" in regular logic and then just feed them to an or gate
2018-10-29T13:38:16 < aandrew> er and gate, sorry. no coffee yet
2018-10-29T13:38:42 < aandrew> if they're both above a threshold then the otput is 1
2018-10-29T13:39:08 < aandrew> wait, are you thresholding or wondering if the singals track each other irrespective of their level?
2018-10-29T13:39:18 < aandrew> i.e. output would be 1 even if both inputs are like 0.3v
2018-10-29T13:39:24 < jadew> that
2018-10-29T13:39:29 < aandrew> ah
2018-10-29T13:39:54 < aandrew> I think jpa-'s absolute difference link is probably the best then
2018-10-29T13:39:59 < jadew> for example I want to say, I want 1 if they're within 0.5 V of eachother
2018-10-29T13:40:04 < aandrew> right
2018-10-29T13:40:11 < aandrew> that's absolute difference
2018-10-29T13:40:15 < jadew> yep
2018-10-29T13:40:36 < jadew> not sure how much less complex than differential + 2 comparators + and gate it would be tho
2018-10-29T13:41:32 < aandrew> the absolute difference is two opamps and a bunch of passives
2018-10-29T13:41:35 < jadew> I'd still need a comparator for the absolute difference one, so I save 1 diode and use 2-3 extra resistors and a cap
2018-10-29T13:41:56 < jadew> not the best deal
2018-10-29T13:43:08 < aandrew> basically it's a differential amp with a precision rectifier on the output to give you absolute difference
2018-10-29T13:43:52 < aandrew> yeah you get it down to 2 opamps + comparator
2018-10-29T13:43:57 < aandrew> not sure where the gate comes in
2018-10-29T13:44:14 < jadew> there wouldn't be a gate with the absolute one
2018-10-29T13:44:26 < jadew> but with my original idea you get one opamp + 2 comparators + 2 diodes
2018-10-29T13:44:38 < jadew> which is less components
2018-10-29T13:44:48 < aandrew> page 87 of http://www.ti.com/lit/an/sboa092b/sboa092b.pdf might be simpler (attach a difference amp on the input
2018-10-29T13:44:56 < aandrew> oh I see
2018-10-29T13:46:27 < aandrew> your circuit is mentioned in a patent: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20150150753.pdf
2018-10-29T13:47:18 < jadew> lol
2018-10-29T13:47:39 < jadew> they give patents for everything...
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2018-10-29T13:49:07 < jadew> page 7 has some weird graphics
2018-10-29T13:49:58 < jadew> why are they giving patents for things like that? makes no sense
2018-10-29T13:50:01 < jadew> that's not an invention
2018-10-29T13:50:23 < jadew> it's a naturally occuring conclusion
2018-10-29T13:50:23 < jpa-> if the threshold difference doesn't have to be very accurate, you could get away with two comparators; connect them in opposite directions, and bias with resistor divider so that they are both off when difference is small; with open-drain output like LM393 you get OR for free
2018-10-29T13:50:48 < jpa-> but the threshold will vary with common mode voltage
2018-10-29T13:51:23 < jpa-> (perhaps you could use schottkys in series to make the voltage drop, then it would be constant but not adjustable)
2018-10-29T13:53:00 < jadew> what are they comapring?
2018-10-29T13:53:44 < jadew> ah, you mean divider between the two signals?
2018-10-29T13:53:45 < jpa-> first one:  signal A and signal B - Vdrop     second one:  signal B and signal A - Vdrop
2018-10-29T13:54:12 < jpa-> thus if signal A is more than Vdrop below B, first one activates; and opposite for second one
2018-10-29T13:54:16 < jpa-> hard part is making the Vdrop
2018-10-29T13:54:41 < jpa-> i was thinking either resistor divider to gnd or series diode + pulldown
2018-10-29T13:55:20 < jadew> that makes the difference > .2 V assuming you're going to use schottcky diodes
2018-10-29T13:55:41 < jadew> *schottky
2018-10-29T13:55:49 < jpa-> yeah, it's not easy to get accurate or small threshold that way
2018-10-29T13:55:58 < jadew> yeah, but good idea
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2018-10-29T14:09:06 < nicksonT> Hi, I'm trying to flash my program using eclipse but I get this message on failure: "Verification of flash failed at offset: 131072"
2018-10-29T14:15:12 < dongs> isnt that end of 128k of flash
2018-10-29T14:29:00 < nicksonT> I think I found the solution, when I comment out parts of my code. It flashes
2018-10-29T14:35:18 < dongs> did you write too much shit
2018-10-29T14:37:22 < nicksonT> dongs: yeah lol, need to refactor it
2018-10-29T14:44:44 < cjbaird> Thinking more of having linking in too much shit. like printf
2018-10-29T14:58:02 < englishman> 34 billion dollar lunix
2018-10-29T14:58:57 < BrainDamage> at least can't be called worthless anymore
2018-10-29T14:59:30 < dongs> ibm is now run by transgender hipsters anyway
2018-10-29T14:59:33 < dongs> that purchase is worthless
2018-10-29T14:59:49 < dongs> i mean they hired ivan reedman
2018-10-29T15:00:12 < englishman> their only business plan is to scam retarded governments and businesses with way too much money
2018-10-29T15:01:18 < cjbaird> Their massive fuck-up with the Australian Census..
2018-10-29T15:02:03 < englishman> they turned a $185m payroll system for the Canadian govt into a nearly $3b ordeal that is going on 7 years later
2018-10-29T15:02:25 < dongs> its almost as if they used lunix for it
2018-10-29T15:02:36 < englishman> ivan will fix it
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2018-10-29T15:03:40 < englishman> hey they did the same thing in australia
2018-10-29T15:03:53 < englishman> Commissioner Chesterman explained the purpose of the inquiry "is to determine why such large amounts of money have been lost to the public, whether anything might be recovered; and why such distress was inflicted on the Queensland Health workforce."
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2018-10-29T15:33:43 < jadew> so that's how IBM makes money
2018-10-29T15:47:27 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2018-10-29T15:55:43 < Rickta59> if it was for IBM you wouldn't be able to run your favorite OS dongs 
2018-10-29T15:55:50 < Rickta59> if it wasn't
2018-10-29T15:58:16 < dongs> what
2018-10-29T16:03:12 < karlp> "Ferrite beads are VERY inductive and as a rule should be avoided like the plague"
2018-10-29T16:03:48 < zyp> just like inductors? I've heard they are also very inductive
2018-10-29T16:05:48 < jadew> karlp, where did you find that quote?
2018-10-29T16:06:39 < karlp> http://www.spi2016.org/slides/SPI2016_Tutorial_Slides.pdf
2018-10-29T16:06:55 < Sadale> SPI2016? :o
2018-10-29T16:07:04 < karlp> power integrity
2018-10-29T16:07:08 < Sadale> SPI isn't a new standard. What a weird domain name
2018-10-29T16:07:43 < Sadale> oh. It's "Signal and Power Integrity". Not SPI the protocol
2018-10-29T16:07:46 < Sadale> It's a conference.
2018-10-29T16:21:06 < jadew> karlp, you don't have access to the video associated with that, do you?
2018-10-29T16:21:39 < karlp> haven't even looked.
2018-10-29T16:22:17 < karlp> I'mjust skimming it, glad people care, but I generally don't.
2018-10-29T16:23:55 < jadew> I think it's largely useless information, but it's an interesting angle
2018-10-29T16:24:59 < englishman> audiophile grade ferrites
2018-10-29T16:25:36 < karlp> well, they're talking about how to ensure that your power supply noise is within your expectations across all frequencies and thigns
2018-10-29T16:27:08 < jadew> yeah, but I saw something where they're trying to match the power line to the impedance of the load, which seems counter intuitive
2018-10-29T16:27:29 < jadew> I was hoping to maybe understand why they thought it's a good idea to do that
2018-10-29T16:28:11 < jadew> normally, you want the exact opposite, but maybe I didn't understand what they meant on that slide
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2018-10-29T16:34:18 < jpa-> ferrite beads before constant load = great, noise stays out; ferrite beads before varying load: oh crap, all the noise stays here
2018-10-29T16:41:23 < jadew> you still don't want that in the power line
2018-10-29T16:44:51 < karlp> page 87 talks abotu getting lower inductance by using a plane rather than caps on vias directly ont he back side
2018-10-29T16:45:54 < karlp> 36 layer pcbs mind you, so...
2018-10-29T16:47:58 < jadew> I think they're just trying to sell ADS
2018-10-29T16:48:23 < englishman> using a plane rather than caps... why not both
2018-10-29T16:48:31 < jadew> in the end you're still going to end up with 100nF, 1nF and a couple of other values in there
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2018-10-29T16:50:37 < jadew> using a plane sounds very expensive
2018-10-29T16:51:04 < karlp> englishman: I think it was via to plane back to top again was in some cases lower than via to far side, even thought that was "closer" and traditionally would be regarded as "better" decoupling
2018-10-29T16:51:07 < englishman> cool paper carl
2018-10-29T16:51:23 < karlp> ... lower L
2018-10-29T16:51:32 < jadew> karlp, yeah, but that requires a custom dielectric
2018-10-29T16:51:36 < englishman> yeah that's interesting, if the cap has no effect you can use that space for something better
2018-10-29T16:54:20 < jadew> ah, I see what they did there, that's cool too
2018-10-29T16:54:35 < jadew> but they doubled that with the custom dielectric too, to gain even more capacitance
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2018-10-29T17:18:50 < emeb> another device the world didn't know it needed: https://twitter.com/acampy/status/1056736314194825216
2018-10-29T17:19:04 < emeb> a breakout board for a single thru-hole LED
2018-10-29T17:19:25 < emeb> because those are so hard to connect to.
2018-10-29T17:20:59 < BrainDamage> so it's a through hole board, for a through hole led
2018-10-29T17:21:29 < BrainDamage> I think there's a current limiting resistor there, but seriously
2018-10-29T17:24:28 < emeb> yep
2018-10-29T17:25:08 < emeb> seems like more of a "Look Ma - I made a PCB!" thing
2018-10-29T17:25:27 < mawk> he's an artist
2018-10-29T17:25:33 < mawk> don't be so harsh
2018-10-29T17:25:35 < mawk> just pat on his head
2018-10-29T17:25:39 < mawk> and give him a candy
2018-10-29T17:26:11 < mawk> lol "@OshPark - Nice idea!"
2018-10-29T17:26:24 < mawk> of course it's a nice idea for them, $30 for tiny breakout boards
2018-10-29T17:28:31 < englishman> pth led breakout board
2018-10-29T17:28:33 < englishman> innovation
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2018-10-29T17:34:05 < jadew> mawk, pretty sure that board was $5 or less
2018-10-29T17:34:32 < jadew> OSH Park charges on PCB area and for something that tiny it would be very little
2018-10-29T17:34:51 < mawk> ah
2018-10-29T17:34:52 < jadew> but yeah... they'd be stupid to say anything nasty
2018-10-29T17:35:02 < mawk> last time I tried for something small it was like $20
2018-10-29T17:35:09 < mawk> vs $2 elsewhere
2018-10-29T17:35:24 < jadew> I'm sure they had a laugh at it at the office
2018-10-29T17:36:41 < jadew> I'm surprised that's the only comment it got
2018-10-29T17:37:16 < jadew> if I had a twitter account I'd be asking how much he's selling them for and suggest he makes a kickstarter
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2018-10-29T17:38:54 < jadew> "this will revolutionize the make:r world"
2018-10-29T17:39:41 < mawk> lol
2018-10-29T17:40:37 < jadew> all they do is blink LEDs anyway... a board with the LED already soldered saves them half a day
2018-10-29T17:42:27 < mawk> what's the best choice to browse a C AST ?
2018-10-29T17:42:50 < mawk> I've thought of using pycparser in python for the quick and dirty solution, otherwise cutting the C parser from GCC, otherwise using some llvm tools for parsing
2018-10-29T17:42:57 < mawk> which one is the most common ?
2018-10-29T17:43:36 < jadew> there has to be a tool for that
2018-10-29T17:44:14 < mawk> I want to browse it from a program, not just display it
2018-10-29T17:44:40 < mawk> I have some hacked-together object-oriented layer for C, and it's so messy that they want me to make nice plots of what's happening
2018-10-29T17:45:08 < jadew> you really want the AST or just a call graph?
2018-10-29T17:45:16 < mawk> the AST
2018-10-29T17:45:25 < mawk> what I need to plot is a declaration
2018-10-29T17:45:32 < mawk> not function calls
2018-10-29T17:45:51 < mawk> and I need to know how is stuff imbricated, etc; so the AST is perfect for that
2018-10-29T17:47:37 < jadew> like the class view in VS?
2018-10-29T17:47:53 < mawk> I've never seen that but yeah I guess
2018-10-29T17:48:06 < jadew> use VS :P
2018-10-29T17:48:36 < jadew> https://docs.devsense.com/content_docs/vs/navigation/imgs/class-view.png
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2018-10-29T20:23:29 < marble_visions> mawk: c-lion has the structure view which is roughly like what jadew posted. frama-c can also plot function calls; the tools is marketed as a way to navigate a foreign codebase
2018-10-29T20:23:43 < marble_visions> but i haven't used it in such an aspect
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2018-10-29T20:26:17 <@Steffanx> so now you'll be redirected again, in case that wasnt the cas anymore marble_visions :P
2018-10-29T20:27:38 < marble_visions> Steffanx: what? where? this is ##stm32 right?
2018-10-29T20:27:53 < marble_visions> ooh, you mean you've fixed something in #stm32
2018-10-29T20:27:54 <@Steffanx> from #stm32 to ##stm32
2018-10-29T20:28:43 < marble_visions> right
2018-10-29T20:28:52 <@Steffanx> yw :P
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2018-10-29T20:52:28 <@Steffanx> The crt. Wlcm
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2018-10-29T20:57:58 < benishor> STM32F746G discovery user here: I've been trying to read from line in and feed to line out
2018-10-29T20:58:25 < benishor> while it appears to work, I also do get some nasty noise which I can't seem to be able to get rid of
2018-10-29T20:58:38 < benishor> anyone encountered this problem?
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2018-10-29T21:56:56 <@Steffanx> lo crt
2018-10-29T22:05:39 <@Steffanx> yw mate
2018-10-29T22:15:40 <@Steffanx> soldering sold leds crt
2018-10-29T22:17:47 <@Steffanx> lol
2018-10-29T22:17:50 <@Steffanx> some leds, lol
2018-10-29T22:17:56 <@Steffanx> lead got to my head i guess
2018-10-29T22:18:14 <@Steffanx> will i die?
2018-10-29T22:19:40 <@Steffanx> oh no
2018-10-29T22:19:49 <@Steffanx> i'd rather die
2018-10-29T22:20:41 <@Steffanx> lol @ zu
2018-10-29T22:20:45 <@Steffanx> *zyp
2018-10-29T22:25:29 <@Steffanx> and so close to you
2018-10-29T22:29:37 < englishman> https://imgur.com/Aq22hKT
2018-10-29T22:29:44 <@Steffanx> the teapot never ceases to amaze me
2018-10-29T22:30:23 <@Steffanx> did blaxter post something?
2018-10-29T22:35:50 < karlp> crt: nice zyp car
2018-10-29T22:41:27 < karlp> cheaper to fly bne-syd-singapor-london-iceland than bne-singapore-london-iceland.
2018-10-29T22:41:32 < karlp> I love how airlines "work"
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2018-10-29T23:14:13 < zyp> crt, haha, nice
2018-10-29T23:15:06 < zyp> did some more kitchen assembly today: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/18vAy.jpg
2018-10-29T23:15:25 < zyp> unfortunately I only have that pic, phone ran out of power when I were gonna take another couple later
2018-10-29T23:16:27 < zyp> electrician still haven't put up the outlet in the ceiling like I asked them to, so I can't start mounting them permanently yet
2018-10-29T23:16:49 < zyp> and I still need to adjust shit so they line up properly
2018-10-29T23:17:14 <@Steffanx> will it have ikea IRSTA zyp ?
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2018-10-29T23:17:45 <@Steffanx> + TRÅDFRI
2018-10-29T23:17:55 < zyp> I don't recognize IRSTA, so I guess not :p
2018-10-29T23:18:05 < zyp> ah, those
2018-10-29T23:18:08 <@Steffanx> https://www.ikea.com/nl/nl/catalog/products/20406947/
2018-10-29T23:18:10 < zyp> almost
2018-10-29T23:19:07 < zyp> https://www.ikea.com/nl/nl/catalog/products/60245226/ <- I picked up four of these the other day
2018-10-29T23:19:10 < zyp> and TRÅDFRI
2018-10-29T23:19:29 <@Steffanx> awh, thats just a tiny bit less fancy
2018-10-29T23:20:28 < zyp> I don't think the difference is even noticeable unless you stick your head under :p
2018-10-29T23:22:01 < zyp> also, the 80cm IRSTA is 8.5W, the trådfri driver is rated for 30W
2018-10-29T23:22:27 < zyp> OMLOPP is 7.4W, so four of them just fits :)
2018-10-29T23:24:27 < qyx_> I like your hammer
2018-10-29T23:25:23 < qyx_> how tall are the kitchen windows?
2018-10-29T23:25:23 < zyp> it's nice
2018-10-29T23:26:04 < zyp> around 60cm IIRC
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--- Day changed Tue Oct 30 2018
2018-10-30T00:07:45 < kakimir> http://tindallgrams.net/
2018-10-30T00:15:30 <@Steffanx> Hello kakimir. Did you know about crt?
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2018-10-30T00:20:07 < kakimir> what?
2018-10-30T00:20:31 <@Steffanx> Idk sir
2018-10-30T00:22:00 < kakimir> Idk
2018-10-30T00:22:16 < kakimir> I did not know about crt
2018-10-30T00:23:36 <@Steffanx> Yeah me neither
2018-10-30T00:23:45 <@Steffanx> How was the day sir
2018-10-30T00:24:08 < kakimir> finished sample inspection raport
2018-10-30T00:24:48 < kakimir> it's good to know nobody will ever read it completelly
2018-10-30T00:25:53 < kakimir> then made 1 page summary in 15minutes
2018-10-30T00:26:11 < kakimir> to deliver some key points
2018-10-30T00:28:58 <@Steffanx> Hah :)
2018-10-30T00:40:49 < aandrew> know what about crt
2018-10-30T00:48:10 < aandrew> wow these ADCs are pricey. USD$45 apiece, and the FPGA is USD$68 each
2018-10-30T00:48:16 < aandrew> 5x ADCs on these prototypes though
2018-10-30T00:49:00 < zyp> nice
2018-10-30T01:29:30 < karlp> ok, crt, I'll be in bne from 17feb to 19march if you want to partay!
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2018-10-30T02:04:03 < kakimir> parti
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2018-10-30T02:39:14 < Thorn> suddenly: cheaper than even lcsc https://www.promelec.ru/product/322689/
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2018-10-30T06:19:01 < englishman> https://github.com/deeppomf/DeepCreamPy
2018-10-30T06:19:30 < jadew> lol
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2018-10-30T06:23:18 < jadew> if the example image is before and after, then it's amazing
2018-10-30T06:25:12 < jadew> but the spacing between the lines suggests that it needs a bit more context than it might have available with real images
2018-10-30T06:28:23 < dongs> i think the jap shit it uncensors is very specific
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2018-10-30T06:36:35 < jadew> any ideas on how to pause an integrator (not reset it)?
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2018-10-30T07:37:04 < jadew> if you feed 0 in, it will integrate the offset between the negative and the positive inputs
2018-10-30T07:37:15 < jadew> I don't think it can be easily done
2018-10-30T07:38:18 < jadew> yeah
2018-10-30T07:41:01 < jadew> Cracki, problem with that is that the output won't stay where it is
2018-10-30T07:42:11 < jadew> the only solution I could think of was to sample the output and the negative input, disconnect them from the first opamp and then keep them at those levels with sample & hold circuitry
2018-10-30T07:42:41 < jadew> then, when resuming, you can connect the cap back to the original circuitry, with the levels still in position
2018-10-30T07:42:46 < jadew> but it's hacky as hell
2018-10-30T07:43:37 < jadew> and the switch will have to be done without disturbing the levels too much so it's not much of a solution
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2018-10-30T08:32:08 < Thorn> https://mobile.twitter.com/mikelectricstuf/status/1056865229315981313
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2018-10-30T09:14:54 < dongs> attn crt https://i.imgur.com/putliZ7.png
2018-10-30T09:16:38 < dongs> yes
2018-10-30T09:16:54 < dongs> just a bit of pumping on the side
2018-10-30T09:17:33 < dongs> Best guess for this image: Fursuit
2018-10-30T09:18:14 < dongs> innovating
2018-10-30T09:18:17 < dongs> not much else
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2018-10-30T09:30:53 < jadew> Cracki, doesn't seem to be what I need
2018-10-30T09:31:32 < jadew> I guess I'll have to go digital
2018-10-30T09:32:53 < jadew> hah, I just figured out how to fix it
2018-10-30T09:32:56 < jadew> *do it
2018-10-30T09:33:10 < jadew> I guess all I needed was a break
2018-10-30T09:33:38 < jadew> ah, no.. won't work
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2018-10-30T10:16:14 < englishman> samtec are a gang of absolutely incompetent fools and should be avoided at any cost
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2018-10-30T10:53:07 < dongs> have a good bang
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2018-10-30T13:10:58 < karlp> heh, detecting power analysis attacks from the target side: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8490109
2018-10-30T13:15:52 < zyp> haha
2018-10-30T13:15:54 < zyp> nice
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2018-10-30T16:38:26 < aandrew> one thing that drives me absofuckinglutely nuts about ST is the stupid arbitrary document naming
2018-10-30T16:39:58 < dongs> CD247982734.pdfg
2018-10-30T16:40:11 < aandrew> yep
2018-10-30T16:40:27 < Streaker> It's not arbitrary. They pick an unused number.
2018-10-30T16:44:53 < karlp> aandrew: here here.
2018-10-30T16:45:08 < karlp> especially when they go to the effort of having RMxxxx and rev numbers and so on.
2018-10-30T16:45:19 < aandrew> yep
2018-10-30T16:45:24 < aandrew> oh well
2018-10-30T16:45:36 < aandrew> today I have to see if I can use FMC as a "slave"
2018-10-30T16:46:05 < aandrew> basically I want to start the FMC in a way which will allow it to DMA a block of data FROM the external device with minimal code
2018-10-30T16:46:11 < aandrew> I think it can be done
2018-10-30T16:47:22 < aandrew> I wired the FMC as sync or async psram with a multiplexed a/d bus
2018-10-30T16:47:26 < Thorn> why can't they name files like RM-STM32F0x0-rev-69.pdf
2018-10-30T16:48:23 < dongs> i end up renaming shit like
2018-10-30T16:48:24 < dongs> STM32F411xC-E Reference Manual (RM0383, DM00119316).pdf
2018-10-30T16:48:45 < karlp> I rename them, but I toss the CD/DM numbers complete.
2018-10-30T16:49:31 < mawk> my brother-in-law became my sister-in-law
2018-10-30T16:49:41 < mawk> and dyed his hair green
2018-10-30T16:49:51 < aandrew> I do what karlp does as well
2018-10-30T16:49:56 < dongs> karlp: they'er ok for searching when some shithead in here links a CDfuckyou.pdf and i can quickly pull smae shit from cache
2018-10-30T16:50:12 < aandrew> mawk: how does your sibling feel about that
2018-10-30T16:50:46 < mawk> the mom is pretty christian so not very good
2018-10-30T16:50:53 < mawk> but the rest is fine
2018-10-30T16:52:03 < aandrew> if my spouse wanted to change genders I don't think I'd be okay with that
2018-10-30T16:52:21 < aandrew> if I knew beforehand that's completely different
2018-10-30T16:54:42 < PaulFertser> Is "##stm32 regular" kind of gender too? What gender really is anyway?
2018-10-30T16:55:20 < marble_visions> i download the stm32cubemx and from there i download all firmaware packages. the ~/STM32Cube then contains all st documents. i can even copy them to other computers. really neat, i can search for mcus and boards and all the docs are on my pc. one minus (if you count it as such) is that it all goes through the stm32cubemx software
2018-10-30T16:56:00 < marble_visions> the firmware packs + all pdfs of errata/refman/app notes is ~11GB which is nothing
2018-10-30T16:56:41 < dongs> there's also the problem that you need to run lunix, cubemx and java
2018-10-30T16:57:08 < marble_visions> it runs on windows and mac as well, but yes, you need java
2018-10-30T16:58:28 < marble_visions> does anyone know why st doesn't publish the sources of the cryptolib? is it because of export laws?
2018-10-30T16:58:43 < marble_visions> i can only get my hands on the object code
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2018-10-30T17:00:24 < marble_visions> i can always get the crypto primitives from somewhere else, but it got me wondering
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2018-10-30T17:10:38 < mawk> probably marble_visions yes 
2018-10-30T17:10:55 < mawk> there are drastic laws
2018-10-30T17:11:23 < mawk> here in France you can't use stronger than 2048 bits RSA private key, or something like that
2018-10-30T17:11:32 < mawk> and can't export crypto related products
2018-10-30T17:12:10 < dongs> just use wolfssl or polarssl or wahtever its called these days
2018-10-30T17:12:19 < dongs> mbedtls thing
2018-10-30T17:12:30 < dongs> why bother with ST code
2018-10-30T17:12:39 < dongs> you know its gonna be garabge if its anything like the cubeshit
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2018-10-30T17:12:53 < dongs> ST code: how to write I2C driver in like 180kbytes of .c
2018-10-30T17:12:57 < dongs> a FUCKING i2C DRIVER
2018-10-30T17:13:37 < dongs> donno, look at it
2018-10-30T17:14:30 < dongs> its their CPAL thing or wahetver
2018-10-30T17:14:40 < dongs> its like I2C hidden behind 3 layers of abstraction
2018-10-30T17:34:40 < jadew> mawk, I wonder why that is :P
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2018-10-30T17:38:48 < jadew> there doesn't seem to be such a law in Romania
2018-10-30T17:41:53 < jadew> thing is, a law like that implies the government has the technology to break that encryption
2018-10-30T17:43:30 < jadew> so the french either bought that from the US, or they have US's dick very deep down their throat
2018-10-30T17:44:00 < jadew> think the NSA has an API subscription for friendly/paying governments?
2018-10-30T17:44:43 < jadew> breakRSA(string PublicCert) : returns string (private certificate)
2018-10-30T17:45:28 < jadew> depending on how much you pay, you get to break stronger encryption
2018-10-30T17:45:39 < jadew> that would be an interesting service to have
2018-10-30T17:46:55 < jadew> if they do, my country doesn't seem to have a subscription (hence the absence of the law)
2018-10-30T17:47:24 < jadew> maybe we're the ones chocking on the dick?
2018-10-30T17:54:56 < karlp> dongs: if some shithead in here links CDfuckyou.pdf, I just "fuckyou" and don't bother helping them :)
2018-10-30T17:58:31 < dongs> karlp: true
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2018-10-30T18:02:18 < bitmask> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-To-5V-3-5M-Hard-Wire-Cable-Mini-Micro-USB-Adapter-For-Car-Dash-Camera-Phone/263415289796?hash=item3d54c657c4:m:myZHo2LDoYmLV7Tsnd9ML3Q:rk:34:pf:0
2018-10-30T18:02:20 < bitmask> think that would work with 11v?
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2018-10-30T18:02:31 < polymorph> hi guys
2018-10-30T18:03:23 < polymorph> how much would it cost to higher a programmer/electronic engineer for a 400 work hour project?
2018-10-30T18:03:30 < dongs> buttmask, considering its probably the cheapest chink dc/dc with like 24Vin max, i'd imagine yes
2018-10-30T18:03:39 < bitmask> :)
2018-10-30T18:03:43 < dongs> polymorph: check freelancer.com
2018-10-30T18:03:47 < dongs> could be as little as $5
2018-10-30T18:03:50 < polymorph> hardware design + microcomputer software development
2018-10-30T18:03:54 < dongs> on the condition that you don't want your project done
2018-10-30T18:04:04 < polymorph> haha
2018-10-30T18:04:25 < dongs> how do  you estimate your proj is 400 hours
2018-10-30T18:04:30 < dongs> is it some IoT shit?
2018-10-30T18:04:31 < polymorph> dongs: what if it needs to be done and working perfectly in 5 weeks?
2018-10-30T18:04:48 < karlp> do you have acceptance tests to define "perfectly" ?
2018-10-30T18:05:02 < karlp> or are you going to just keep adding features and "fixes" until your 400 hours is over 9000?
2018-10-30T18:05:09 < dongs> yeah, this
2018-10-30T18:05:13 < dongs> my current dickstarter is SO MUCH THIS
2018-10-30T18:05:20 < polymorph> karlp: no failures over thousands of operational hours
2018-10-30T18:05:26 < dongs> im sitting here building like 8 different firmware versions for all teh custom faggot shit they managed to sell to different clients
2018-10-30T18:05:35 < dongs> and RIGHT AS IM BUIDLING SHIT the fag calls me and like "oh we have one more small cahnge"
2018-10-30T18:05:40 < karlp> polymorph: so... no. you don't.
2018-10-30T18:05:43 < dongs> that ends up needing to fucking change a bunch of shit
2018-10-30T18:06:01 < dongs> and htis is years after the product was upposedlty done
2018-10-30T18:06:13 < dongs> these fucks need to run out of money asap
2018-10-30T18:06:14 < karlp> you haven't defined what failure is, and presumably you're providing the way of doign enough parallel hardware testing to get thousands of operation hours in a 400 hour project?
2018-10-30T18:06:19 < dongs> so i can stop fucking around with this shit
2018-10-30T18:06:49 < karlp> polymorph: where are you expecting to hire? "locally" ? or are you hoiping for magical "cheaper people in other coutnries" ?
2018-10-30T18:07:39 < polymorph> karlp: i believe the cheapest place would be china lol
2018-10-30T18:07:52 < dongs> not if you have to translate your requirements
2018-10-30T18:07:58 < karlp> polymorph: that's not what I asked, I asked where you wanted to hire?
2018-10-30T18:08:18 < karlp> ie, do you want people you can talk to and show and see how they react when you stroke your cat and giggle?
2018-10-30T18:08:33 < polymorph> i am in hungary but these jobs can be done anywhere don't you think?
2018-10-30T18:08:38 < karlp> dongs: we're not sure they even have requirements yet, just "works perfectly" 
2018-10-30T18:08:53 < karlp> polymorph: so you're looking for "cheap" and "don't care where" rather than local then.
2018-10-30T18:09:00 < dongs> i wish i could do this crap "anywhere" and not have to fly to the retarded dickstarter office every few weeks
2018-10-30T18:09:11 < karlp> I woudl have said, figure on ~80US/hour if you're well defined
2018-10-30T18:09:22 < karlp> it's probably still not out of line if you want it done well.
2018-10-30T18:09:35 < karlp> $5/hour if you want to pay for 2000 hours or more.
2018-10-30T18:09:47 < dongs> throw in feww room/food and it's a deal
2018-10-30T18:09:47 < Ultrasauce> 400 work hours in 5 weeks
2018-10-30T18:09:49 < polymorph> karlp: if it needs to be done well then it is plus? ;)
2018-10-30T18:09:53  * Ultrasauce calculating....
2018-10-30T18:09:54 < dongs> err feww = free
2018-10-30T18:10:18 < karlp> 2*40 or 1*80 ultra ;)
2018-10-30T18:11:09 < dongs> Today the average hours worked in the U.S. is around 33, with the average man employed full-time for 8.4 hours per work day, and the average woman employed full-time for 7.9 hours per work day.
2018-10-30T18:11:37 < aandrew> yeah anyone working for themselves would love an 8h workday
2018-10-30T18:11:40 < aandrew> or a 40h workweek
2018-10-30T18:11:54 < aandrew> I think I average about 65-70h across 7 days
2018-10-30T18:12:03 < dongs> polymorph: did you already sell the product, and now you need to deliver in 5 weeks?
2018-10-30T18:12:04 < aandrew> but that's by choice for the most part
2018-10-30T18:12:20 < aandrew> polymorph: I'd love to know how you estimated the 400h effort
2018-10-30T18:12:37 < polymorph> dongs: yes, that and already received payment lol is how it goes
2018-10-30T18:12:44 < karlp> aandrew: 5 weeks to be available just before christmas rush
2018-10-30T18:13:06 < karlp> or, "I know 4 weeks is unreasonable, but ever week we lose before christmas is a loss already so... 5?"
2018-10-30T18:13:07 < dongs> so whats the product
2018-10-30T18:13:09 < dongs> is it something boring
2018-10-30T18:13:17 < dongs> product/project whatever
2018-10-30T18:13:23 < aandrew> polymorph: I dont even bother quoting anymore if that's the spec. :-) For new clients I usually write up a full spec and acceptance criteria that is signed off, and I ask for $5k down (which is used as a float to invoice against)
2018-10-30T18:13:37 < polymorph> dongs would you be amused if it was a wifi smartdildo?
2018-10-30T18:13:49 < dongs> no, because i've made a bluetooth smart dildo
2018-10-30T18:14:03 < polymorph> cool
2018-10-30T18:14:25 < dongs> so its ESP1488 and some motors
2018-10-30T18:14:28 < dongs> you've basically already have it made
2018-10-30T18:14:52 < dongs> double click arduino.exe, load esp1488 library, while (1) vibrate();
2018-10-30T18:15:09 < polymorph> aandrew: are you a mega company? ;)
2018-10-30T18:15:19 < dongs> no he's just a jew
2018-10-30T18:15:32 < karlp> mega company's dont't take quotes that are starting at 5k...
2018-10-30T18:15:39 < dongs> however i'm similar, i charge $500 to double-click altium.exe
2018-10-30T18:15:42 < aandrew> polymorph: if you want to take your chances, hit up freelancer.com. I've stopped going there because the process is *literally* "Hi I have a project that uses a micro. My budget is $5 and I need it in 3 days" and every fucking indian and chinese on the planet responds with "I'll do it in 1 day for $1" and there is no process in place to request more info before bidding
2018-10-30T18:15:48 < dongs> thats before i even start doing anything else
2018-10-30T18:15:52 < aandrew> polymorph: nope, I'm a one man shop who's been doing this for the last decade and a bit
2018-10-30T18:16:26 < aandrew> polymorph: I've just got to the point where I can be a little more selective with my clients. Generally my smallest engagement is 2-3 months though, although most are in the 9-12mo range
2018-10-30T18:16:31 < polymorph> [17:19] <aandrew> polymorph: if you want to take your chances, hit up freelancer.com. I've stopped going there because the process is *literally* "Hi I have a project that uses a micro. My budget is $5 and I need it in 3 days" and every fucking indian and chinese on the planet responds with "I'll do it in 1 day for $1" and there is no process in place to request more info before bidding - lol lol :)
2018-10-30T18:16:49 < dongs> also known as freecancer.com
2018-10-30T18:16:52 < aandrew> polymorph: I'm not even trying to be funny. it's awful
2018-10-30T18:16:55 < polymorph> for 1$
2018-10-30T18:16:56 < aandrew> truly, truly awful
2018-10-30T18:16:58 < polymorph> ahahah
2018-10-30T18:17:10 < polymorph> is that a bowl of rice in china?
2018-10-30T18:17:26 < dongs> there's a couple knowledgeable chinks on there
2018-10-30T18:17:28 < aandrew> no, and I do not believe that anyone actually does serious work for the prices they quote
2018-10-30T18:17:32 < dongs> that ive seen take on projects i would never touch
2018-10-30T18:17:34 < dongs> for tiny amounts
2018-10-30T18:17:37 < aandrew> they just quote low so they can then ask questions, but I don't work that way
2018-10-30T18:17:47 < dongs> like "layout this 4L pcb with a bunch of shit and dimension requirements nad bla bla" for $50
2018-10-30T18:17:51 < dongs> like, fuck outta here
2018-10-30T18:17:55 < aandrew> heh yeah
2018-10-30T18:18:06 < aandrew> I'm pretty slow at layout tbh but I'm thorough
2018-10-30T18:19:54 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/OEOrIiS is my most recent panel (just went to fab this morning actually)
2018-10-30T18:20:06 < jadew> polymorph, for the right hourly rate, you can find that here
2018-10-30T18:20:14 < aandrew> now I'm working on finding someone to build it since englishman told me to fuck off. :-)
2018-10-30T18:20:43 < jadew> but you haven't said much about requirements/what it is
2018-10-30T18:21:15 < jadew> the 5 weeks you talk about means nothing to anyone without more info
2018-10-30T18:21:29 < jadew> it may be impossible
2018-10-30T18:21:30 < aandrew> indeed, prime freelancer.com material
2018-10-30T18:22:26 < dongs> aandrew: i'll assemble that board for you for $5k
2018-10-30T18:22:27 < jadew> and if it's the sort of thing that requires several boards to be spinned, you will have to hire from china if you want 5 weeks or pay a lot extra, because nobody else in the world might be able to spin boards fast enough without some serious cash behind
2018-10-30T18:22:55 < jadew> again, difficult to say without knowing what it is
2018-10-30T18:22:57 < dongs> i cant fucking belive you made that shit double-sided
2018-10-30T18:23:25 < jadew> dongs you assemble double sided too?
2018-10-30T18:23:31 < dongs> with rage yeah
2018-10-30T18:23:41 < dongs> i mean its same as single sided it just goes into the oven twice
2018-10-30T18:24:19 < jadew> + glue?
2018-10-30T18:24:25 < dongs> my shits not advanced enough to do glue + both sides reflow
2018-10-30T18:24:26 < dongs> no
2018-10-30T18:24:35 < polymorph> [17:26] <dongs> aandrew: i'll assemble that board for you for $5k - i do it for 4999$ ! ;)
2018-10-30T18:24:38 < dongs> just literally, load top, reflow, flip, paste, load bottom, reflow
2018-10-30T18:24:40 < jadew> ah, so you're relying on surface tension
2018-10-30T18:24:44 < dongs> nope
2018-10-30T18:24:59 < karlp> relying on solder not melting when paste does.
2018-10-30T18:25:03 < dongs> yeah
2018-10-30T18:25:10 < karlp> works most of the time :)
2018-10-30T18:25:11 < jadew> interesting
2018-10-30T18:25:21 < karlp> and also relies on parts surviging the second flow through the oven
2018-10-30T18:25:26 < karlp> also, works most of the time
2018-10-30T18:25:32 < dongs> right, so sometimes the order of reflow matters
2018-10-30T18:25:34 < polymorph> there are different composition solder pastes for double side dudes
2018-10-30T18:25:47 < karlp> yeah, because that's fatnastic for reliability...
2018-10-30T18:25:48 < dongs> i.e. do boring parts 1st pass, sensitive wstuff on 2nd pass
2018-10-30T18:25:58 < polymorph> few C melting temperature difference
2018-10-30T18:26:09 < dongs> i've never seen anyone using that.
2018-10-30T18:26:13 < dongs> or heard of such
2018-10-30T18:26:16 < karlp> you don't need to when the solder won't remelt before the paste alreayd has 
2018-10-30T18:26:28 < polymorph> yeah well there also is a thing called smd glue
2018-10-30T18:26:37 < dongs> we already went through taht.
2018-10-30T18:26:38 < karlp> yes, we know, but that's an extra process
2018-10-30T18:26:44 < karlp> and yes, already mentioned and covered :)
2018-10-30T18:26:58 < karlp> cheapest is to just not puyt parts on two sides :)
2018-10-30T18:27:02 < aandrew> dongs: I'm hoping to get it assembled locally
2018-10-30T18:27:09 < aandrew> but I will send you the info if you're serious
2018-10-30T18:27:23 < aandrew> and double sided is required
2018-10-30T18:27:28 < PaulFertser> How about gluing manually just the largest heaviest components if they're just must be soldered during the first heat cycle?
2018-10-30T18:28:00 < polymorph> aandrew: is it only a single piece or the prototype of a line?
2018-10-30T18:28:04 < dongs> PaulFertser: for that sorta stuff i've made some standoffs for the 2nd ovening cycle so the board isn't hanging off large parts that can fall off
2018-10-30T18:28:14 < aandrew> everything on the bottom is small/light, with the exception of the one connector which may end up being glued or at least assembled at the end
2018-10-30T18:28:17 < dongs> so that it ends up even and has less chances of shit falling out
2018-10-30T18:29:04 < Ultrasauce> whats englishman charging for this run
2018-10-30T18:29:15 < dongs> probly a lot more than 5k
2018-10-30T18:29:34 < aandrew> polymorph: that is a prototype optical tracking system. it's the receiver side. I did a panel ealrier for a prototype constellation controller 
2018-10-30T18:30:10 < PaulFertser> Hm, I am kinda surprised you say surface tension isn't enough to hold the small parts. I was told at my local assembly place that it is working just like that, everything melts but light parts are held by the solder.
2018-10-30T18:30:23 < dongs> PaulFertser: of course it works.
2018-10-30T18:30:30 < aandrew> that was a VERY simple board though because I just used a nucleo-144 board for the brains, the proottype was an ice40 and a bunch of mosfet module boards
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2018-10-30T18:30:39 < polymorph> btw do you guys use lead free?
2018-10-30T18:30:40 < dongs> the only trouble i ever had on double-sided stuff was big/heavy connectors or similar shit
2018-10-30T18:30:48 < PaulFertser> That contradicts 19:24 < karlp> relying on solder not melting when paste does.
2018-10-30T18:30:59 < dongs> PaulFertser: thats for large things i guess.
2018-10-30T18:31:18 < dongs> polymorph: . only make:r fags use leaded stuff.
2018-10-30T18:31:31 < dongs> i dont even have any leaded solder paste.
2018-10-30T18:31:36 < aandrew> dongs: and all my bottom-side parts are light (mostly passives), not sure why you're busting my balls on it
2018-10-30T18:31:47 < dongs> aandrew: im just trolling, as usual
2018-10-30T18:31:59 < polymorph> flux also reduces surface tension...
2018-10-30T18:32:08 < dongs> your board looks assembleable, just annoying
2018-10-30T18:32:17 < dongs> how many bom line items? like > 200?
2018-10-30T18:32:23 < polymorph> aandrew: what is your opinion about leaded solder+
2018-10-30T18:33:23 < PaulFertser> polymorph: but there's no flux left by the time the bottom gets heated the second time.
2018-10-30T18:33:31 < polymorph> yes
2018-10-30T18:34:06 < polymorph> PaulFertser: that probably improves the process then
2018-10-30T18:34:54 < marble_visions> aandrew: what are those
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2018-10-30T18:36:18 < aandrew> dongs: yes, it's fairly big. 100 lines for the large board along the bottom, and 40 lines for the 5x sensor boards along the top. none of the other boards will be stuffed for the prototype run
2018-10-30T18:36:37 < dongs> the 40/100 isn't shared?
2018-10-30T18:36:39 < aandrew> mostly 0402, some 0603/0805 and one 0201 item (100 ohm terminating resistors)
2018-10-30T18:36:53 < aandrew> dongs: oh there is likely 20 lines shared
2018-10-30T18:37:03 < aandrew> polymorph: nobody uses leaded for anything anymore
2018-10-30T18:37:17 < aandrew> I use leaded at home for my own work, but it's not used outside of mil/high-rel stuff
2018-10-30T18:37:34 < aandrew> marble_visions: what are what
2018-10-30T18:38:00 < dongs> fuck its 1am
2018-10-30T18:38:02 < dongs> i over innovated
2018-10-30T18:38:04 < dongs> bbl
2018-10-30T18:38:10 < aandrew> lol
2018-10-30T18:38:12 < aandrew> later dongs
2018-10-30T18:38:29 < polymorph> aandrew: i was told that lead solder is still used for medical, aerospace, and aviation because of reliability
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2018-10-30T18:40:33 < marble_visions> aandrew: the pcbs you posted
2018-10-30T18:43:19 < karlp> marble_visions: he's said what they are repeatedly :)
2018-10-30T18:43:24 < karlp> read the logs better :)
2018-10-30T18:43:31 < marble_visions> aandrew: oh you've said, sorry.
2018-10-30T18:45:02 < aandrew> in hindsight I should have added a signal from the FPGA to each of the digitizers for dithering
2018-10-30T18:45:06 < aandrew> but I can hack that in after
2018-10-30T18:45:30 < marble_visions> polymorph: do you have a budget or you're scouting out how much would it cost so you can actually budget?
2018-10-30T18:45:42 < aandrew> there are five FPGA debug pins (2 in, 2 out and one LED) and 5 MCU debug pins. the two FPGA inputs can be differential and the MCU ones all go to timer pins
2018-10-30T18:46:17 < aandrew> polymorph: did you give a 2-sentence "waht this thing does" spiel or mention constraints?
2018-10-30T18:47:33 < marble_visions> aandrew: do you need help with the pcb manufacturing and component placing?
2018-10-30T18:48:11 < polymorph> marble_visions: asking for quote first so i know how many banks we still need to rob to get the funds
2018-10-30T18:48:31 < marble_visions> right
2018-10-30T18:51:02 < marble_visions> aandrew: you've said that as well, i think i need a 10 minute break from the screen
2018-10-30T18:51:46 < karlp> eyes turned into marbles? ;)
2018-10-30T18:52:59 < englishman> aandrew: id take dongs offer for $5k, especially if he can source pcbs too
2018-10-30T18:53:04 < englishman> you wont find better than that
2018-10-30T18:53:20 < jadew> just realized I got china'd again
2018-10-30T18:53:27 < englishman> polymorph: il do it for $40k, pm me for info. 10 prototypes included, 8 weeks
2018-10-30T18:53:45 < jadew> and ebay is fucking useless because other people have complained about this seller before
2018-10-30T18:53:45 < englishman> android/ios programming not included
2018-10-30T18:53:57 < jadew> says item is in the UK (so the price is higher) and ships from china
2018-10-30T18:54:04 < Ultrasauce> englishman: in-house testing? ;)
2018-10-30T18:54:05 < marble_visions> karlp: indeed
2018-10-30T18:54:09 < englishman> if so desired
2018-10-30T18:55:21 < marble_visions> i was as surprised as polymorph when i entered the field, but quickly saw why it cost as much as it does
2018-10-30T18:56:04 < jadew> cost of what?
2018-10-30T18:56:13 < marble_visions> custom designs
2018-10-30T18:56:15 < englishman> cost of what
2018-10-30T18:56:21 < englishman> we-vibe sold 4 million vibrators
2018-10-30T18:56:33 < englishman> who gives a shit about $40k
2018-10-30T18:57:33 < marble_visions> englishman: did you make the we-vibe hw?
2018-10-30T18:57:38 < englishman> no
2018-10-30T18:58:00 < englishman> couple of Nortel engineers did
2018-10-30T18:58:57 < polymorph> marble_visions: i am not surprised, these things are more difficult than flipping burgers
2018-10-30T19:03:39 < aandrew> englishman: PCBs are already sourced and in production
2018-10-30T19:03:53 < aandrew> marble_visions: I'm currently soliciting quotes for assembly
2018-10-30T19:03:56 < englishman> hmm i would have waited
2018-10-30T19:04:04 < marble_visions> englishman: i meant that, at face value, "getting an rpi zero costs way less than custom hw, and who would actually want to pay for it" is what most "industry-disrupting entrepreneurs" think
2018-10-30T19:04:08 < englishman> possible your assy house needs some other shit
2018-10-30T19:04:11 < aandrew> englishman: can't, it's already under time constraints
2018-10-30T19:04:24 < englishman> thats still backwards thinking imo
2018-10-30T19:04:26 < aandrew> englishman: "needs some other shit"? stencils? they're responsible for that
2018-10-30T19:04:34 < englishman> having pcbs made and no idea where to send them
2018-10-30T19:04:35 < englishman> no
2018-10-30T19:05:27 < aandrew> the panel rails are already wide enough to accomodate all but the weirdest of assembly houses, the routing bit is 2mm which is more than wide enough to break apart with most tools
2018-10-30T19:05:33 < aandrew> I'm not sure what else I should be wary of
2018-10-30T19:05:41 < marble_visions> aandrew: i have to talk to my mates about this on friday, i don't do hw :(
2018-10-30T19:07:52 < jadew> dongs, looks like your shit is going to be delayed for a couple more weeks because I bought photosensitive dry film from crappy chinese shop
2018-10-30T19:08:25 < jadew> for the record, it's already working and ready, but I can't print a matching network as accurately as it needs to be
2018-10-30T19:08:36 < marble_visions> polymorph: if 5 weeks is all you've got, can't you build a prototype with cots hw and if it goes off, have the second version custom-built?
2018-10-30T19:08:52 < jadew> I can't get the PCB done in china either, since I have to do it on rogers laminate
2018-10-30T19:09:02 < aandrew> fancy rf shits
2018-10-30T19:10:06 < aandrew> I added a directional coupler to the panel just before I sent it off
2018-10-30T19:10:23 < aandrew> hoping to turn my limesdrmini (whenever it arrives, grr postal strike) into a shitty T/R VNA
2018-10-30T19:10:35 < englishman> http://iconnect007.uberflip.com/i/1042925-flex-oct2018/15?m4=
2018-10-30T19:10:39 < englishman> rigidflex 4 all
2018-10-30T19:10:50 < aandrew> although I did that on FR4 (3mil) not anything fancy
2018-10-30T19:11:05 < aandrew> 50 ohm single-ended is 4mil which is the spec for this panel anyway, hence my slipping it into that order
2018-10-30T19:11:13 < jadew> aandrew, I've been considering that use for the limeSDR too
2018-10-30T19:11:20 < jadew> I think they already have sw for that, no?
2018-10-30T19:11:40 < PaulFertser> https://github.com/metafetish/wejibe-py/blob/master/README.rst
2018-10-30T19:12:11 < polymorph> aandrew: how many boards do you want to assemble ?
2018-10-30T19:12:14 < englishman> heh
2018-10-30T19:12:51 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/yUSqFzI is my directional coupler
2018-10-30T19:13:10 < marble_visions> PaulFertser: nice
2018-10-30T19:13:24 < aandrew> the middle area is actually cut out and some rigid coax 
2018-10-30T19:14:04 < PaulFertser> marble_visions: not sure if that's useful but you can easily prank if there's a we-vibe device around it seems.
2018-10-30T19:14:26 < aandrew> jadew: it's on a 6 layer board, but the top layer is all that's used (inner layer 3mil away is ground, as is bottom layer, nothing else is filled)
2018-10-30T19:14:48 < aandrew> polymorph: I'll be assembling 4-5 panels I think
2018-10-30T19:14:52 < polymorph> aandrew: what a waste :)
2018-10-30T19:14:56 < aandrew> polymorph: heh
2018-10-30T19:14:57 < jadew> make sure to post some data when you measure it
2018-10-30T19:15:20 < jadew> I'm curious how well it will do
2018-10-30T19:15:28 < jadew> those microstrips are tiny tho...
2018-10-30T19:15:47 < polymorph> aandrew: did you just say that gey it would be fine foor assembling 5 boards for 5k ?
2018-10-30T19:15:56 < polymorph> *guy
2018-10-30T19:16:05 < englishman> thats a good price
2018-10-30T19:16:58 < jadew> afk
2018-10-30T19:18:39 < aandrew> jadew: yep, I'll either use perceptron's real VNA or I'll sweet-talk my way into a uni lab
2018-10-30T19:18:53 < aandrew> jadew: there are no microstrips in it
2018-10-30T19:19:00 < aandrew> that's the point, the couplint is all done in the coax
2018-10-30T19:19:17 < aandrew> in THEORY it should be good from a couple hundred kHz to 6GHz
2018-10-30T19:19:31 < aandrew> polymorph: he didn't quote me, he was just shooting a number out based on the pic
2018-10-30T19:19:35 < aandrew> there's more to it than that though :-)
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2018-10-30T19:25:51 < Steffanx> Cata name is Nike?
2018-10-30T19:26:20 < Steffanx> Cats*
2018-10-30T19:26:40 < Steffanx> Good morning this early morning stvn
2018-10-30T19:26:46 < Steffanx> Excatly
2018-10-30T19:26:49 < Steffanx> *
2018-10-30T19:27:12 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-30T19:27:27 -!- tprrt [~tprrt@217.114.201.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2018-10-30T19:33:29 < Steffanx> Ok.
2018-10-30T19:34:43 -!- Rickta59 [~kimballr@unaffiliated/rickta59] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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2018-10-30T19:40:05 < polymorph> crt: lead-free solder kills
2018-10-30T19:41:00 < Steffanx> Leaded makes you crazy.
2018-10-30T19:41:07 < Steffanx> Ask crt about it.
2018-10-30T19:43:46 < englishman> leaded solder is for tube amps, ham radios and other dead shit for old people
2018-10-30T19:45:36 < Steffanx> Hmm this millenial is old
2018-10-30T19:46:57 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has joined ##stm32
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2018-10-30T19:49:29 < Steffanx> JIT.
2018-10-30T19:52:06 < Steffanx> Damn it. Predictable much.
2018-10-30T19:57:13 < Steffanx> Welcome BrainDamage
2018-10-30T19:57:48 < BrainDamage> hello
2018-10-30T20:00:16 < BrainDamage> did you eat it by the spoonful?
2018-10-30T20:01:43 < Steffanx> Sniff it.
2018-10-30T20:06:30 < BrainDamage> I think you're supposed to sniff it after you heat it to 500°C or so
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2018-10-30T20:28:44 < jadew> aandrew, what do you mean there are no microstrips? what are those traces there?
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2018-10-30T20:37:49 < BrainDamage> the vapour pressure of lead at 350 is pretty low
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2018-10-30T20:57:40 < aandrew> jadew: well you can call a few mm of trace a microstrip but it hardly qualifies
2018-10-30T20:58:25 < aandrew> that being said I did lay it out with the center pins of the SMA connectors using 4mil traces which is 50 ohms with a 3mil h
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2018-10-30T21:06:28 < qyx> those ST iNemo sensors, are there any with proper acc+gyro fusion?
2018-10-30T21:06:38 < qyx> I cannot find any
2018-10-30T21:06:48 < qyx> only step detection, tilt detection and such things
2018-10-30T21:13:55  * qyx searching zypsnips
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2018-10-30T21:33:59 < jadew> https://imgur.com/gallery/Smh5N7n
2018-10-30T21:43:36 < Steffanx> old
2018-10-30T21:44:04 < jadew> she's probably my age by now
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2018-10-30T21:46:36 < jadew> bs
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2018-10-30T22:57:06 < Steffanx> Hello, good evening Cracki
2018-10-30T23:02:00 -!- kow_ [~afed@135.0.26.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2018-10-30T23:06:26 < qyx> hi pro EEs
2018-10-30T23:06:50 < Steffanx> where?
2018-10-30T23:08:04 < qyx> bought https://www.kaloricketabulky.sk/image/bb9b44e99aa5697d/foodstuffbb9b44e99aa5697d recently
2018-10-30T23:08:21 < englishman> cool
2018-10-30T23:08:26 < qyx> idk if it is a proper stroopwafel
2018-10-30T23:08:46 < englishman> steffy told me not to dip them in coffee
2018-10-30T23:08:48 < englishman> but i do
2018-10-30T23:08:50 < englishman> dont tell him
2018-10-30T23:09:36 < qyx> ok he won't find out
2018-10-30T23:10:23 < Steffanx> i didnt tell you that
2018-10-30T23:10:25 < Steffanx> iirc
2018-10-30T23:10:42 < Steffanx> it could be a stroopwafel qyx
2018-10-30T23:10:48 < Steffanx> i see a windmill
2018-10-30T23:11:48 < Steffanx> did you get instant diabetus qyx ?
2018-10-30T23:12:24 < qyx> no, I am zucker resistant
2018-10-30T23:12:34 < qyx> so far
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2018-10-30T23:52:10 < zyp> *yawn*
2018-10-30T23:56:44 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a02:8071:9289:5900:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2018-10-30T23:57:02 < antto> *yawn* indeedz
--- Day changed Wed Oct 31 2018
2018-10-31T00:00:26 < zyp> today's house update: I didn't do shit
2018-10-31T00:01:09 < zyp> but I dropped by to check what the workers did and snapped a couple photos of what I did yesterday since my phone died before I was done yesterday
2018-10-31T00:01:23 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/jVIpr.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/fiLom.jpg
2018-10-31T00:02:42 < jadew> google has a multiplayer game in their logo
2018-10-31T00:02:43 < jadew> it's fun
2018-10-31T00:03:14 < zyp> waiting for the electrician to come mount the power outlet in the ceiling before I adjust and permanently fasten stuff
2018-10-31T00:08:13 -!- kow_ [~afed@135.0.26.171] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-31T00:12:28 < jadew> ok, I think I got too good for this game, I keep coming on top on each round
2018-10-31T00:12:44 < kakimir> everyday party everyday dance
2018-10-31T00:13:06 < antto> kakidance
2018-10-31T00:13:59 < antto> for professional.. <inset_word_here> ?
2018-10-31T00:15:14 < antto> so u can b that one kid at school who has the Pro version
2018-10-31T00:15:27 < antto> the rich kid
2018-10-31T00:15:57 < zyp> haven't ipad pro already been a thing for a while?
2018-10-31T00:17:00 < antto> i thought apple tend to make them stop working so u can buy teh newer model
2018-10-31T00:17:58 < jadew> they do
2018-10-31T00:18:20 < Steffanx> Where was ya, Wang? We was worried
2018-10-31T00:21:42 < englishman> L6 extension cords are hard to find
2018-10-31T00:23:14 -!- mawk` [sabu@znc.serveur.io] has joined ##stm32
2018-10-31T00:24:48 < Steffanx> It means no one uses it. Perhaps you see that as some sort of advice :P
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2018-10-31T00:29:55 < englishman> yeah I will make one
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2018-10-31T00:46:09 < Steffanx> Lol RTX 2080 Ti
2018-10-31T00:46:14 < Steffanx> Cards are failing much
2018-10-31T00:46:14 < Steffanx> Better go amd
2018-10-31T00:47:59 < zyp> englishman, L6?
2018-10-31T00:48:20 < zyp> oh, some weird NEMA plug
2018-10-31T00:57:01 < zyp> englishman, is IEC 60309 used at all over there?
2018-10-31T00:59:46 < qyx> those are great, so much eu
2018-10-31T01:01:22 < zyp> well, according to wikipedia there's defined both a yellow variant for 120V single phase and an orange variant for 120V/240V split phase
2018-10-31T01:01:41 < zyp> according to google image search, the yellow variant also exists, but I can't find any pics of the orange one
2018-10-31T01:01:53 < qyx> yellows are used in the uka afaik
2018-10-31T01:01:57 < qyx> on construction sites
2018-10-31T01:02:01 < qyx> with isolation transformers
2018-10-31T01:02:06 < qyx> *UK
2018-10-31T01:03:12 < kakimir> sweet
2018-10-31T01:03:33 < zyp> well, yeah, yellow is defined as 100-130V
2018-10-31T01:03:58 < kakimir> finland updates to radar based speed cameras that follow like 64 vehicles at once from up to 150meters away
2018-10-31T01:04:12 < zyp> over here we just have blue and red
2018-10-31T01:16:13 < PeterM> kakimir cool, also, that sucks
2018-10-31T01:24:43 < karlp> https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/attachments/content/attachments/22358d1537451922-semiwiki_pcb.jpg
2018-10-31T01:29:20 < kakimir> where is kicad?
2018-10-31T01:29:54 < PeterM> wheres what?
2018-10-31T01:40:20 < kakimir> kicad
2018-10-31T01:40:27 < kakimir> on that timeline
2018-10-31T01:42:01 < karlp> well, it's a mentor slide, they've got their own agenda
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2018-10-31T01:45:35 < Laurenceb124> wew
2018-10-31T01:45:43 < Laurenceb124> what a day
2018-10-31T01:46:18 < jadew> kakimir, it's below the crop
2018-10-31T01:47:14 < Laurenceb124> babbyshake is gunna go bankrupt in about 4 weeks time
2018-10-31T01:47:39 < jadew> Laurenceb124, quick, put a good word for me! that's enough time to get paid once
2018-10-31T01:48:02 < jadew> unless you want to ask for a raise?
2018-10-31T01:48:26 < Laurenceb124> heh
2018-10-31T01:48:46 < jadew> it was never meant to succeed, eh?
2018-10-31T01:48:46 < Laurenceb124> they will probably grab some moar funding from somewhere, its how these things go
2018-10-31T01:48:55 < Laurenceb124> yeah its a grant milking scheme
2018-10-31T01:49:33 < kakimir> Laurenceb124: when they do you need to go to their office and walk out with expencive gears
2018-10-31T01:49:40 < kakimir> expensive
2018-10-31T01:50:07 < jadew> right, what gear are you working with?
2018-10-31T01:50:10 < jadew> anything good?
2018-10-31T01:50:41 < jadew> you should ask for new and better gear
2018-10-31T01:50:52 < jadew> so when they go under, you can buy it at the auction
2018-10-31T01:51:30 < kakimir> I bet they don't have anything because the whole thing is just bogus
2018-10-31T01:51:34 < kakimir> or something
2018-10-31T01:51:38 < jadew> make sure you remove the fuse, knobs, break stickers, etc on your last day, so you can buy it for less
2018-10-31T01:52:19 < jadew> they have to spend some of it on gear...
2018-10-31T01:52:37 < johntramp> a SPI driver I am looking at has a dummyTxValue which is sent whenever receiving a byte.  What is the purpose of this?
2018-10-31T01:53:00 < jadew> that's how SPI works
2018-10-31T01:53:11 < jadew> you send a value, you receive one
2018-10-31T01:53:20 < jadew> if it only wants to receive, it still has to send something out
2018-10-31T01:54:35 < jadew> technically you can send and receive data at the same time, practically, very few protocols on top of SPI make use of that
2018-10-31T01:55:08 < johntramp> ok right 
2018-10-31T01:55:14 < johntramp> and so it makes no difference what is in there?
2018-10-31T01:55:26 < johntramp> i guess 0x00 would use slightly less power than 0x55???
2018-10-31T01:55:44 < jadew> makes no difference if the datasheet of the chip you're talking to says so
2018-10-31T01:55:56 < johntramp> ah i see
2018-10-31T01:56:17 < jadew> johntramp, less switching = less power, but I wouldn't think too much about that
2018-10-31T01:58:01 < jadew> less switching = less noise - that's more important
2018-10-31T01:58:06 < jadew> (usually)
2018-10-31T01:59:19 < johntramp> true,    thanks
2018-10-31T01:59:36 < jadew> np
2018-10-31T02:01:21 < Laurenceb124> no expensive gear :(
2018-10-31T02:01:26 < Laurenceb124> amerimutt is here...
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2018-10-31T02:05:58 < Thorn> anybody used https://www.systemvision.com/ ?
2018-10-31T02:06:30 < Thorn> https://www.systemvision.com/sites/default/files/user-uploads/user-135501/waveform%20viewer%20example.PNG
2018-10-31T02:06:33 < mawk> [00:54:35] <jadew> technically you can send and receive data at the same time, practically, very few protocols on top of SPI make use of that
2018-10-31T02:06:41 < mawk> you mean just applications using SPI ?
2018-10-31T02:06:45 < mawk> or higher level than that
2018-10-31T02:07:30 < jadew> higher level than SPI, for example an IC that uses SPI will specify what data it needs, in what order, etc
2018-10-31T02:07:35 < Thorn> iirc nrf24 sends you its status register while you transmit a command byte
2018-10-31T02:07:41 < mawk> yes
2018-10-31T02:07:44 < mawk> I was about to mention that
2018-10-31T02:08:15 < jadew> doesn't prove what I'm saying is not true tho
2018-10-31T02:08:21 < mawk> yes
2018-10-31T02:08:32 < jadew> most communication goes like "I need this", then you proceed to get it
2018-10-31T02:08:33 < mawk> it seems impractical to use it for anything else than nrf24 is doing
2018-10-31T02:08:35 < mawk> yes
2018-10-31T02:08:39 < jadew> until you say what you need the slave won't know what to give you
2018-10-31T02:08:50 < mawk> just for a status byte it's fine, but otherwise it can't guess in advance
2018-10-31T02:08:56 < jadew> yep
2018-10-31T02:10:21 < jadew> I torn between driving to the supermarket to get a beer or going to bed and starting the day tomorrow at a normal hour
2018-10-31T02:10:46 < mawk> go to bed
2018-10-31T02:10:51 < mawk> and get two beers tomorrow night
2018-10-31T02:11:22 < mawk> you can't think straight if you're tired
2018-10-31T02:11:41 < mawk> chronic lack of sleep hurts your health a great lot
2018-10-31T02:11:58 < mawk> and acute sleep deprivation lowers your apparent IQ by a great deal
2018-10-31T02:12:03 < mawk> also the focus abilities and all
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2018-10-31T02:13:02 < jadew> mawk, you're right, I'll go to bed
2018-10-31T02:13:05 < mawk> you can restore some of your cognitive abilities with stimulants, but no more than a few days in a row
2018-10-31T02:13:07 < jadew> I just didn't want to drink water
2018-10-31T02:13:11 < mawk> after that you start losing your mind
2018-10-31T02:13:52 < jadew> I thrive at night, but I have a full day tomorrow so it's probably a good idea to try to get some sleep
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2018-10-31T02:15:12 < jadew> ebay is fucking broken
2018-10-31T02:15:31 < jadew> I get spam even tho I opted out
2018-10-31T02:15:39 < jadew> but if I make a sale I don't get anything
2018-10-31T02:16:07 < jadew> anyway, night!
2018-10-31T02:16:13 < mawk> good night
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2018-10-31T02:56:43 < Laurenceb124> til: amerimutt is jewish, a member of the edl, and his daughter is a prison guard
2018-10-31T02:56:45 < Laurenceb124> my sides
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2018-10-31T03:19:05 < englishman> zyp: nope
2018-10-31T03:21:59 < englishman> L6 looks like it's mostly welding gear
2018-10-31T03:24:20 < englishman> i can piece one together for not many bux
2018-10-31T03:40:00 < aandrew> evening englishman 
2018-10-31T03:40:16 < englishman> hello sir
2018-10-31T03:40:54 < englishman> Julian Assange had a lawsuit thrown out Monday that claimed new rules imposed by the Ecuadorian embassy in London, including demands he clean up after his cat, violated his rights.
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2018-10-31T03:41:35 < aandrew> lol
2018-10-31T03:41:42 < aandrew> that's the kind of house guest I want
2018-10-31T03:41:47 < aandrew> sticks around for years
2018-10-31T03:41:49 < aandrew> is a slob
2018-10-31T03:42:00 < aandrew> SUES ME because I demand he not be such a slob
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2018-10-31T03:56:15 < cjbaird> A true believer in AU's national paper wrote an article trying to claim that he was the one who brought House Techno to Melbourne.. Don't fucking think so.
2018-10-31T03:57:11 < cjbaird> Bit hard to do at the age of 5.
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2018-10-31T05:12:32 < dongs> right now?
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2018-10-31T06:45:43 < emeb_mac> Tronald Dump
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2018-10-31T07:01:44 < antto> Dolan Tramp
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2018-10-31T07:17:21 < cjbaird> brainworms
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2018-10-31T08:48:34 < khazi> Hi.., I had a doubt. I'm running I2c protocol in this I made stm32 as a slave & arduino as a master. The problem I'm facing is when I was transmitting from slave, master too was in transmitting mode & i2c was getting hang most of the time. How to synchronize both?any method
2018-10-31T08:48:52 < dongs> wut
2018-10-31T08:49:01 < dongs> slave doesn't transmit until master asks
2018-10-31T08:49:03 < dongs> thats how you syncronize
2018-10-31T08:50:16 < khazi> Means slave should be receiving mode most of the time
2018-10-31T08:50:23 < dongs> no, means thats how i2c works
2018-10-31T08:50:39 < dongs> master will send a read/write request from slave, and it will reply when it neesd to
2018-10-31T08:50:51 < khazi> Looks tricky
2018-10-31T08:51:03 < dongs> indeed, slave i2c is pretty useless in general
2018-10-31T08:51:12 < dongs> you might be better off picking up some better protocol
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2018-10-31T08:53:50 < khazi> Yeah I did most workaround always seen i2c gets hang
2018-10-31T08:58:35 < khazi> Do you know how to reset i2c when it gets hang?
2018-10-31T09:00:31 < dongs> from master side, yes. no idea from slave side.
2018-10-31T09:02:51 < khazi> With stm32 I was calling MX_I2c1_init(); when ever it got hang.. Do you know how to do with arduino?
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2018-10-31T09:07:30 < khazi> Oh.. Was working with both & got stuck .. Sorry will ask in arduino channel
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2018-10-31T09:15:28 < dongs> https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-wednesday-edition-1.4446492/norway-switches-off-fm-radio-but-this-station-is-defying-government-order-1.4446857 found zyp
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2018-10-31T09:22:09 < zyp> nah, fuck FM broadcasts
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2018-10-31T09:24:36 < dongs> do you have DAB in your e-mobile
2018-10-31T09:24:41 < zyp> sure
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2018-10-31T09:48:18 < cjbaird> Instead of needing a 10kW jammer to block an FM station, they'll only need a 100W one. Progress!  This pleases the CCPPD.
2018-10-31T09:50:22 < cjbaird> Halloween night here. Didn't see a /single/ MILF in cosplay taking kids out trick-or-treating --all of them were in regular clothes. This is bullshit.
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2018-10-31T12:30:02 < karlp> ccppd?
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2018-10-31T12:40:58 < aandrew> cjbaird: that sucks
2018-10-31T12:45:29 < Steffanx> Cumming County Public Power District?
2018-10-31T12:54:58 < cjbaird> CCPPD -- the Chinese government guys who spam the radyawaves so no-one like Taiwan or indie Pacific nations can do much.
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2018-10-31T13:25:03 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk1znLDBA8w
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2018-10-31T14:20:23 < dongs> lol
2018-10-31T14:20:39 < englishman> fuck samtec
2018-10-31T14:21:05 < dongs> who the fuck actually designs their shit in
2018-10-31T14:28:32 < Steffanx> ^
2018-10-31T14:36:12 < englishman> the guys that did are total fucking choads
2018-10-31T14:36:22 < englishman> should have gone with rigidflex
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2018-10-31T15:47:40 < jpa-> karlp: regarding our discussion about usb latency & stlink vs. bmp & gdb layout asm; looks like there isn't much difference nowadays, openocd or gdb seems to be better at caching stuff than it was a few years back
2018-10-31T15:48:12 < karlp> ok, good to know.
2018-10-31T15:48:22 < karlp> Ill putt current claims into the FUD box then.
2018-10-31T15:49:29 < karlp> this was merged recently, will make it into the next oocd release, results in ~double or better speed for cmsis-dap people too: http://openocd.zylin.com/#/c/4080/
2018-10-31T15:54:21 < dongs> who the hell uses cmsisdap
2018-10-31T15:55:13 < karlp> atmel edbg, cypress, mbed... 
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2018-10-31T16:13:25 < marble_visions> jpa-: i've had even better experiences with the stlink board reflashed as a "segger" and ozone
2018-10-31T16:13:46 < marble_visions> although the license is pretty strict, eval only, sort of thing
2018-10-31T16:14:54 < dongs> ozone is certainly superior
2018-10-31T16:16:14 < marble_visions> dongs: i don't know why but it runs so much better.. i've got issues with it under linux but under windows it's ok
2018-10-31T16:18:33 < dongs> the compare-and-flash only changed bits stuff in ozone/jlink is way better than erase-all-and-reflash shit on every other probe ive seen
2018-10-31T16:19:08 < dongs> i even added different sections to some of my bigger firwmares that have readonly assets/stuff that never changes to move it up in flash away from code so reflash is nearly instant for code changes
2018-10-31T16:19:57 < marble_visions> dongs: nice. that's with linker scripting?
2018-10-31T16:20:01 < marble_visions> and labels?
2018-10-31T16:20:24 < dongs> well, in keil but yeah. there's a #pragma you can use to put #includes/code/whatever bwetween them in a different section
2018-10-31T16:20:45 < marble_visions> right, so it's armcc underneath
2018-10-31T16:20:49 < dongs> and then i just edited rom map and did a section1 from 0 to 10000 (code) and from 10000-80000 or wahtever( assets)
2018-10-31T16:21:17 < marble_visions> cool
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2018-10-31T16:47:23 < aandrew> I should really check out gdb again 
2018-10-31T16:47:36 < aandrew> I've been using jlink and ozone almost exclusively now
2018-10-31T16:51:16 < karlp> if you're happy, why?
2018-10-31T16:59:13 < englishman> https://ifixit.org/blog/11986/iphones-are-allergic-to-helium/
2018-10-31T16:59:37 < englishman> tldr: a specific mems 32khz osc is susceptible to small-molecule gas
2018-10-31T17:01:05 < englishman> many mems sensors are susceptible but this osc causes the devices to stop
2018-10-31T17:02:56 < Steffanx> Haha mouser heard englishman's cry for help
2018-10-31T17:03:12 < Steffanx> "Now stocking Samtec"
2018-10-31T17:03:20 < englishman> ugh
2018-10-31T17:03:27 < englishman> anyway this is a custom made cable
2018-10-31T17:06:04 < bitmask> what has higher energy density and which is safer? lipo or li-ion
2018-10-31T17:07:13 < jpa-> lipo has higher density in that it doesn't have a hard and heavy shell
2018-10-31T17:07:27 < jpa-> li-ion is safer in that it has a hard shell that doesn't get damaged so easily
2018-10-31T17:08:24 < bitmask> ok
2018-10-31T17:08:30 < jpa-> lifepo4 has even lower energy density, but is even safer because it is more tolerant of abuse & typically only shoots flammable fluid on damage (as opposed to shooting burning flammable fluid)
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2018-10-31T17:16:46 < bitmask> what is the difference in charging cycle? I have li-ion mode but it only charges to 4.1v, lipo charges to 4.2
2018-10-31T17:17:01 < bitmask> can I charge with lipo mode without any ill effect?
2018-10-31T17:19:44 < karlp> i thought lion+lipo were both 4.2 and were interchangeable?
2018-10-31T17:19:49 < karlp> lifepo is lower
2018-10-31T17:20:27 < BrainDamage> lion and lipo are the same thing with different package, the voltage is an arbitrary tradeoff between wear and available energy
2018-10-31T17:20:33 < bitmask> yea, no idea why this charger does 4.1 for liion
2018-10-31T17:20:54 < BrainDamage> less wear
2018-10-31T17:24:47 < mawk> it's the ideal temp out there
2018-10-31T17:25:01 < mawk> 10°C without much wind
2018-10-31T17:25:16 < Steffanx> Out there?
2018-10-31T17:25:28 < mawk> out of the buildings
2018-10-31T17:25:32 < mawk> like in the street
2018-10-31T17:26:00 < bitmask> and one last question (I hope).  if I have 3 18650s, same brand/model/capacity. if I use my charger to measure capacity is there a a difference that lets you know you shouldn't series them up? like say they are 2600mah batteries and one is x and one is y, if |x - y| > z dont use em together?
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2018-10-31T17:26:26 < mawk> parallel you mean ?
2018-10-31T17:26:32 < Hamilton> Hey guys, How you doing?
2018-10-31T17:26:48 < bitmask> no, series
2018-10-31T17:27:21 < bitmask> I guess parallel too but more interested in series right now
2018-10-31T17:29:05 < mawk> to my understanding the risk with series and a centered mass is that your two symmetric voltages won't be symmetric for very long, but it's not a hazard as with parallel
2018-10-31T17:29:25 < mawk> and if you don't have a centered ground I see no objection
2018-10-31T17:31:07 < bitmask> they are very close anyway, maybe 24mah 
2018-10-31T17:32:33 < mawk> maybe the most interesting metric is voltage difference, not capacity
2018-10-31T17:32:44 < mawk> but they're linked anyway
2018-10-31T17:33:17 < bitmask> yea, I think I'll be ok.  
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2018-10-31T17:58:24 < jadew> mawk, took your advice
2018-10-31T17:58:29 < jadew> I'm having my second beer now
2018-10-31T18:05:54 < mawk> lol
2018-10-31T18:16:16 < karlp> http://blog.bro.org/2018/10/renaming-bro-project_11.html
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2018-10-31T18:19:54 < Hamilton> karlp, pff..They changed "bro" and went with "zeek"? Talk about out of the frying pan into fire
2018-10-31T18:22:08 < jadew> always knew that opensource is written by lesbians
2018-10-31T18:22:50 < jadew> no other way to explain the bad coding
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2018-10-31T18:27:44 < Hamilton> By the way, IBM is buying Red Hat
2018-10-31T18:27:58 < karlp> old news, days old
2018-10-31T18:28:13 < jadew> yep, was already discussed
2018-10-31T18:28:49 < Hamilton> Oh, net reached 3 days older here due to long distance :D
2018-10-31T18:30:40 < jadew> makes sense anyway, it's another thing to sell to governments
2018-10-31T18:31:38 < jadew> red hat was commercial anyway, but they probably didn't have the connections to sell themselves the way IBM can
2018-10-31T18:32:11 < jadew> only governments would pay for linux
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2018-10-31T18:41:51 < karlp> you still regularly manage to impress me jadew
2018-10-31T18:44:52 < jadew> karlp, I'm constantly improving, probably that's why
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2018-10-31T18:56:15 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa8gaHGDWYY
2018-10-31T18:59:25 < jadew> low power consumptions
2018-10-31T19:01:40 < jadew> logical and board level attack - none of that rubbish found on other ICs, that prevent direct die probing
2018-10-31T19:01:58 < jadew> but security is key, let's push that in the marketing material
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2018-10-31T20:54:20 < Steffanx> kakimir: Time for some kakimusic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak1-qLbHHCM
2018-10-31T20:54:27 < Steffanx> dont fall asleep in the office con3
2018-10-31T20:55:12 < kakimir> con3?
2018-10-31T20:55:40 < Steffanx> yeah, con3. Last time i mentioned his quit/joining he said he fell asleep in the office
2018-10-31T20:57:44 < con3> sorry Steffanx, pretty much what happened. As soon as my pc locks it does this. fell asleep, woke up and left, just rocked up again.
2018-10-31T20:58:23 < Steffanx> haha :P
2018-10-31T20:58:46 < con3> life has been rough, atleast we have a couch and blanket :p
2018-10-31T21:00:22 < con3> Have you guys seen or used these mcu's that casually have like 4 cores and a few Ghz?
2018-10-31T21:00:54 < con3> dont think its ST though, think I saw TI had a few
2018-10-31T21:04:48 < qyx> allwinner!
2018-10-31T21:05:54 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ6t7AImTdE neat hack
2018-10-31T21:06:16 < kakimir> CSS keylogger
2018-10-31T21:09:54 < Steffanx> 11 minutes is too long
2018-10-31T21:10:04 < con3> tldr?
2018-10-31T21:11:38 < kakimir> basically css sheet is used to generate GET requests
2018-10-31T21:15:26 < kakimir> with conditions
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2018-10-31T21:50:21 < Thorn> last tweet in the thread https://twitter.com/whitequark/status/1057108300079210496?s=19
2018-10-31T21:50:44 < Thorn> there is EMI recovery code in lunix
2018-10-31T21:51:49 < con3> that's very interesting
2018-10-31T21:52:26 < jpa-> i get that every now and then with some devices
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2018-10-31T22:06:50 < zyp> Steffanx, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/j8RDa.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/oPaSE.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/6XJHC.jpg
2018-10-31T22:07:10 < Thorn> >when the nukes go off they will produce a lot of non-RoHS-compliant materials
2018-10-31T22:11:20 < Steffanx> hah cool zyp
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2018-10-31T22:16:47 < qyx> usb pros, did anyone MTP?
2018-10-31T22:17:11 < zyp> the media thing?
2018-10-31T22:17:34 < qyx> uh the kitchen, much shine
2018-10-31T22:18:00 < qyx> yes
2018-10-31T22:18:39 < qyx> or mass storage emulation (if it is possible)
2018-10-31T22:19:51 < zyp> what's your purpose? I do mass storage emulation in my nfc reader, it puts up a simple fat filesystem with one file containing the card ID
2018-10-31T22:20:20 < qyx> the thing is the device has spi-ffs or similar filesystem on a nor flash
2018-10-31T22:20:39 < qyx> or no filesystem at all, just a log of data
2018-10-31T22:20:48 < qyx> and I wan't it to show as a disk drive
2018-10-31T22:21:08 < zyp> readonly?
2018-10-31T22:21:25 < zyp> if readonly, it should be really simple
2018-10-31T22:21:40 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/cardio/tree/main.cpp#n220
2018-10-31T22:21:42 < qyx> sure?
2018-10-31T22:22:06 < qyx> I also wanted to do firmware upgrades and such
2018-10-31T22:22:08 < qyx> key upload
2018-10-31T22:23:11 < qyx> so you did a ramfs with FAT and placed the file in it
2018-10-31T22:23:38 < zyp> handling writes are gonna be more complex, then you need to deal with the fact that the host can decide to put the file anywhere and then just set the file table to point to wherever
2018-10-31T22:24:12 < qyx> hence the mtp question
2018-10-31T22:25:00 < zyp> is host support for mtp good enough that it's worth it?
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2018-10-31T22:25:24 < zyp> I don't have much experience with mtp at all
2018-10-31T22:25:28 < qyx> win and linux, yes
2018-10-31T22:25:39 < qyx> windows is native, on linux some packages are needed
2018-10-31T22:26:06 < qyx> but as it works in debian, it should work in any more recent distro
2018-10-31T22:28:50 < jpa-> mtp host support seems quite good, android phones use it a lot
2018-10-31T22:29:26 < jpa-> nice thing about it is that the device gets more control about the writes, so doing stuff like keeping FAT mounted in firmware while allowing writes from host is possible
2018-10-31T22:30:03 < jpa-> annoying thing is poor performance, like having to transfer whole file even if only a part is needed
2018-10-31T22:32:52 < qyx> in other words, I cannot find any simple method to allow a BFU to download data and update the device without doing proprietary software
2018-10-31T22:36:09 < jpa-> FAT in ram seems like a common solution, though nowadays i'd do it by MTP myself
2018-10-31T22:39:03 < englishman> zyp, does your vw's range decrease in winter
2018-10-31T22:42:25 < zyp> of course
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2018-10-31T22:43:05 < englishman> how much?
2018-10-31T22:43:09 < englishman> tesla dudes say about 1/2
2018-10-31T22:43:22 < zyp> nah, not that bad
2018-10-31T22:43:23 < englishman> im seeing about 25-30%
2018-10-31T22:43:33 < zyp> it all depends
2018-10-31T22:43:52 < englishman> but some of that may be a bad wheel bearing
2018-10-31T22:45:38 < englishman> does your dash show an efficiency loss or is it only a capacity loss
2018-10-31T22:46:16 < zyp> oh, it doesn't show anything except a more pessimistic range estimate
2018-10-31T22:46:24 < zyp> I don't care too much about the range estimate anyway
2018-10-31T22:46:47 < englishman> how do you calculate efficiency, by counting kWh during recharging?
2018-10-31T22:47:08 < zyp> why are we talking about efficiency?
2018-10-31T22:47:34 < englishman> well i have a meter for it on the dash, it's gone down, i'm wondering how much is due to the bad wheel bearing and how much is due to winter tires
2018-10-31T22:48:03 < englishman> it's possible the batteries are less efficient, and have lower capacity in winter
2018-10-31T22:48:23 < zyp> just putting on winter tires is a pretty noticeable decrease itself in range
2018-10-31T22:51:26 < zyp> I haven't noticed the battery capacity itself decreasing, I figured the reduced range is mainly from increased rolling resistance, more air drag because colder air is denser and more power consumed by heating
2018-10-31T22:52:19 < karlp> englishman: well, actual winter tires drop me 20% or so on petrol, so you're getting that just for starters, without cold
2018-10-31T22:52:31 < englishman> 20% wow
2018-10-31T22:52:38 < karlp> speaking of which, definitely time to put the studs on the bike
2018-10-31T22:52:41 < zyp> that sounds about right
2018-10-31T22:52:52 < karlp> well, studs, no these pseudo winter tires some people use :)
2018-10-31T22:53:10 < englishman> idk, they just clear the roads ehre
2018-10-31T22:53:11 < englishman> here
2018-10-31T22:53:32 < englishman> i put on pirelli cinturato winter
2018-10-31T22:53:32 < karlp> can't keep it all clear all the time.
2018-10-31T22:53:35 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/IbiIM.jpg <- I did this trip in october two years ago though
2018-10-31T22:53:52  * karlp shrugs
2018-10-31T22:54:04 < karlp> curious to see hwo the new car does in winter.
2018-10-31T22:54:06 < karlp> should be great.
2018-10-31T22:54:17 < karlp> can't fuckign wait to offload the focus now
2018-10-31T22:54:30 < englishman> what did you get
2018-10-31T22:54:55 < zyp> that 151 km stretch was between an AC charging station and a DC charging station with no charge points of any kind in between
2018-10-31T22:55:14 < karlp> englishman: oktavia 4x4 diesel
2018-10-31T22:55:20 < englishman> sick
2018-10-31T22:55:24 < karlp> yar, so mcuh nicer
2018-10-31T22:55:29 < karlp> also, 2016 vs 2005 :)
2018-10-31T22:55:29 < englishman> a modern day lada niva
2018-10-31T22:55:48 < zyp> so I spent three hours charging full at the AC spot while I ate dinner, and then I drove as carefully as possible to make it to the next charger
2018-10-31T22:55:49 < karlp> nah, it's more like an outback or a passat passat than a niva
2018-10-31T22:56:16 < zyp> i.e. without heating
2018-10-31T22:56:24 < englishman> nice
2018-10-31T22:56:31 < englishman> dont think i could go 151k
2018-10-31T22:56:37 < zyp> I think I also had a slight height advantage
2018-10-31T22:57:25 < zyp> 13.1 on winter tires is pretty good, but on summer tires I'd easily do <12 at those speeds
2018-10-31T22:57:32 < zyp> in summer on summer tires
2018-10-31T22:59:10 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/cdFAj.jpg <- I think this was right after I put on the summer tires this spring, just went driving without a goal
2018-10-31T22:59:24 < qyx> karlp: skoda?
2018-10-31T23:00:48 < englishman> cool, i havent seen near that sort of efficiency
2018-10-31T23:01:06 < englishman> but i also dont spend a lot of time at 50km/h
2018-10-31T23:01:17 < zyp> it's average
2018-10-31T23:01:39 < zyp> also counts if I stop and leave the car on
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2018-10-31T23:02:41 < englishman> since i signed up for their telemetry service i have some monthly stats
2018-10-31T23:02:52 < englishman> 4.9km/kWh avg over october
2018-10-31T23:03:40 < zyp> that sounds high
2018-10-31T23:03:45 < zyp> you got snow already?
2018-10-31T23:03:50 < englishman> nothing on the roads
2018-10-31T23:04:08 < zyp> woke up to snow here on monday, but it's all rained away again now
2018-10-31T23:04:20 < englishman> about the same
2018-10-31T23:04:32 < englishman> september was 6.0 km/kWh
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2018-10-31T23:10:44 < englishman> altium 19.0.6 is out
2018-10-31T23:14:25 < karlp> qyx: yeah skoda
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--- Log closed Thu Nov 01 00:00:21 2018