--- Log opened Mon Apr 01 00:00:53 2019
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2019-04-01T00:29:09 < Steffanx> One blob is already enough SolderBlob1 
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2019-04-01T00:52:40 < Laurenceb_> I hope everyone in here is on the right side of history
2019-04-01T00:55:25 < kakimir> that is what?
2019-04-01T00:59:48 < kakimir> you speak like you have something profound to say
2019-04-01T01:00:38 < Steffanx> Time to sleep, kakimir 
2019-04-01T01:01:15 < kakimir> send the sandman
2019-04-01T01:01:49 < kakimir> I have my alarms set
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2019-04-01T01:12:29 < kakimir> I rather hear profound ideas than sleep
2019-04-01T01:19:23 < kakimir> waiting laurence to deliver <skeleton.gif>
2019-04-01T01:20:03 < Steffanx> April fools kakimir 
2019-04-01T01:20:05 < Ultrasauce> you may indeed be looking in the wrong place
2019-04-01T01:21:52 < Steffanx> Nah you can help him out, Ultrasauce 
2019-04-01T01:21:54 < Steffanx> I know it
2019-04-01T01:22:13 < Steffanx> Or just give him access to your tweets
2019-04-01T01:38:51 < Ultrasauce> all i got is musicspam https://dreamcatalogue.bandcamp.com/album/--23
2019-04-01T01:39:39 < kakimir> some dark psycedelic?
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2019-04-01T02:27:07 < Laurenceb_> https://imgur.com/KmWrABD
2019-04-01T02:30:32 < Laurenceb_> https://imgur.com/lqvUiM2
2019-04-01T02:51:32 < Ultrasauce> theres the profundity we all crave
2019-04-01T02:56:45 < R2COM> Ultrasauce are you in my steam friends list?
2019-04-01T02:57:35 < Ultrasauce> i believe so
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2019-04-01T03:26:06 < Laurenceb_> >go to my mums house
2019-04-01T03:26:14 < Laurenceb_> >she is watching Jordan Peterson
2019-04-01T03:26:17 < Laurenceb_> my sides
2019-04-01T04:09:10 < R2COM> im a little confused if i see in a "hardware registers" section of visualGDB that some register is enabled. right after i set its EN bit for example. but then i continue running and get out of the scope of function which ernabled it. however, that reg is definitely enabled.. why the debugger says its 0?
2019-04-01T04:09:16 < R2COM> when EN bit must be set to 1
2019-04-01T04:09:49 < R2COM> and i know for sure that that bit is set to 1
2019-04-01T04:10:08 < R2COM> shouldnt hardware registers monitoring be global?
2019-04-01T04:10:24 < R2COM> like.. if i "peek" at registers even at other portion of program it shouldnt matter
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2019-04-01T05:25:38 < R2COM> man this logitech disappoints me day by day
2019-04-01T05:25:45 < R2COM> i keep buying their products and it pisses me off
2019-04-01T05:25:54 < R2COM> their drivers and software control is a total fucking miss
2019-04-01T05:43:40 < scrts> gents, do you have a good resource for datasheet search?
2019-04-01T05:43:50 < scrts> can't find SIL9022A HDMI transmitter datasheet
2019-04-01T05:43:54 < scrts> not even in chinese websites
2019-04-01T05:43:55 < scrts> :/
2019-04-01T05:45:12 < Cracki> SIL... company website?
2019-04-01T05:45:28 < scrts> wait, seems like it's SII
2019-04-01T05:45:31 < scrts> or sii
2019-04-01T05:45:38 < scrts> should be former silicon image
2019-04-01T05:45:44 < scrts> now lattice
2019-04-01T05:45:48 < scrts> but it says contact sales...
2019-04-01T05:45:50 < Cracki> 2 page brief https://www.semiconductorstore.com/pdf/newsite/siliconimage/SiI9022a_pb.pdf
2019-04-01T05:45:52 < Cracki> it's SIL
2019-04-01T05:46:00 < Cracki> contact sales then :P
2019-04-01T05:46:22 < scrts> yeah, found product brief, even found programmers guide
2019-04-01T05:46:30 < scrts> but I need setup/hold requirements
2019-04-01T05:46:53 < scrts> I'm trying to output parallel RGB, but the screen just blinks sometimes
2019-04-01T05:46:56 < Cracki> huh, I see "sii" part numbers too
2019-04-01T05:46:59 < scrts> I'm suspecting bad timing
2019-04-01T05:47:00 < Cracki> damn these acquisitions
2019-04-01T05:47:54 < Cracki> seen this, 80 pages? http://gfiles.chinaaet.com/scorpio/group/20170512/334-6363018347328996537678558.pdf
2019-04-01T05:51:39 < scrts> well you're fast man
2019-04-01T05:51:41 < scrts> thanks!
2019-04-01T05:51:48 < scrts> was looking for this for the last 2hrs
2019-04-01T05:52:06 < Cracki> love the watermark on cover page, "for ZTE, under NDA"
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2019-04-01T06:55:31 < Thorn> T - 2:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2cPnyXSXR4
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2019-04-01T07:10:53 < R2COM> Thorn see even indians are doing better than roskosmos
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2019-04-01T11:36:37 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/meT0Ibs.jpg zyp, valve uses juden-connect
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2019-04-01T11:54:17 < dongs> o shit
2019-04-01T11:54:22 < dongs> they're using VL670
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2019-04-01T12:12:06 < zyp> cute
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2019-04-01T12:38:07 < jly> https://i.imgur.com/hhOUlB7.png
2019-04-01T12:38:34 < dongs> wrong channel
2019-04-01T12:40:09 < karlp> yeah, notn even lolrence would try that.
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2019-04-01T12:43:58 < Thorn> emmc to usb flash drive kit https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/USB-2-0-eMMC-Adapter-eMCP-162-186-PCB-Main-Board-without-Flash-Memory-eMMC-Adapter/721141_32847790202.html
2019-04-01T12:44:12 < dongs> lol "kit"...
2019-04-01T12:44:20 < dongs> Thorn: i bought some chinese emmc socket>usb thing
2019-04-01T12:44:31 < dongs> with a few different spacers/sockers for diffefrent footprints of emmc
2019-04-01T12:44:57 < Thorn> no solder sockets?
2019-04-01T12:45:09 < dongs> yes, place in and lock type socket
2019-04-01T12:45:18 < Thorn> cool
2019-04-01T12:45:41 < dongs> https://www.ebay.com/p/eMMC-EMCP-BGA-Socket-3-in-1-Adapter-With-USB-for-Bga153-169-162-186-221/15005251813 this sorta shit but i paid aroudn 50-60bux iirc
2019-04-01T12:46:07 < dongs> in fact that looks identical to waht i got
2019-04-01T12:46:12 < dongs> i donno if I got all 3 sockets maybe just 2
2019-04-01T12:46:27 < dongs> i dont think i have the one for thate eMCP shit
2019-04-01T12:49:53 < Thorn> only $269.00
2019-04-01T12:50:52 < dongs> like i said, i didnt get from ebay
2019-04-01T12:56:35 < Thorn> how to turn any 18650 into a samsung 18650 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/100pcs-lot-Lithium-Battery-18650-Enclosure-ICR18650-26FM-Battery-Cover-Skin-PVC-Heat-Shrink-Film-2600mAh/1019264_32885468580.html
2019-04-01T12:57:36 < zyp> haha
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2019-04-01T13:23:08  * karlp giggles
2019-04-01T13:23:12 < kakimir> you simply just dont buy from ali: litium batteries, AC/DC converters(without inspecting them first)
2019-04-01T13:23:15 < karlp> any other fun april 1 shits?
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2019-04-01T13:24:09 < jly> yeah ^
2019-04-01T13:24:23 < jly> already posted mine lol
2019-04-01T13:43:24 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2019-04-01T13:48:16 < jadew> I want to see a movie with hot chicks in the jungle
2019-04-01T13:55:43 < jadew> it's sunny outside and I want to feel like I'm getting some fresh air
2019-04-01T13:56:47 < kakimir> it is sunny oh my ghadd! all the sudden sun appeared
2019-04-01T13:57:07 < jadew> google recommended me this: https://youtu.be/UJ9hygcdOgo?t=1922
2019-04-01T13:57:15 < kakimir> I have been running AC for 2 weeks now as sun shines directly to my room
2019-04-01T13:57:43 < jadew> we had 4 degrees this morning
2019-04-01T13:57:52 < kakimir> sure
2019-04-01T13:58:12 < kakimir> sun shines like horizontally to all the 4 windows I have
2019-04-01T13:58:34 < kakimir> I needed to take my sweater off
2019-04-01T13:59:37 < kakimir> thinking hat
2019-04-01T14:00:15 < kakimir> mietintämyssy
2019-04-01T14:00:24 < BrainDamage> ... what temp do you have to run an AC?
2019-04-01T14:00:36 < kakimir> 21
2019-04-01T14:01:06 < jadew> he's running it on heating mode
2019-04-01T14:01:24 < BrainDamage> that's like ideal temp for me, from 21 to 25 is perfect shirt weather
2019-04-01T14:02:42 < kakimir> I can go all the way to 24
2019-04-01T14:06:32 < kakimir> this signal detection code is just poettry
2019-04-01T14:07:17 < kakimir> involves like 20functions
2019-04-01T14:07:55 < kakimir> cannot understand it anymore but it's beatyful
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2019-04-01T14:24:02 < f3r70rr35f> hi!
2019-04-01T14:24:12 < kakimir> change your nick
2019-04-01T14:24:26 < kakimir> please :p
2019-04-01T14:24:50 < kakimir> fertorres is fine
2019-04-01T14:25:12 < kakimir> what's up?
2019-04-01T14:26:15 < karlp> f3rshit is no worse tha anyone elses.
2019-04-01T14:27:25 < kakimir> true.. my eyes just get confused when I try to read it
2019-04-01T14:29:13 < kakimir> f3r70rr35f: sorry.
2019-04-01T14:30:23 < kakimir> did you have some stm32 question?
2019-04-01T14:40:19 < kakimir> I know rite..
2019-04-01T14:48:26 < kakimir> chatkiller
2019-04-01T14:55:05 < f3r70rr35f> wtf ..
2019-04-01T14:55:24 < f3r70rr35f> I don't like yours either kakimir ...
2019-04-01T14:56:31 < kakimir> f3r70rr35f: that's the spirit
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2019-04-01T14:58:44 < Sadale> This'll be the last spam of the event this year. Rock Paper Scissors is today. Join here! http://ikatokai.com/join
2019-04-01T15:08:22 < jadew> what's first prize?
2019-04-01T15:09:14 < jadew> pff... no prizes
2019-04-01T15:11:29 < Sadale> jadew, if you win I'll send you $1 paypal credit.
2019-04-01T15:11:37 < Sadale> promise!
2019-04-01T15:17:01 < Laurenceb> https://soundcloud.com/user-209448905
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2019-04-01T15:43:12 < jadew> tried jlcpcb today, they wrote me that "since print the ID code with random and can not specify the space."
2019-04-01T15:43:28 < jadew> I gave them a rectangle where to put their garbage random code and they said they can't do that
2019-04-01T15:45:04 < dongs> that is correct
2019-04-01T15:45:09 < dongs> why are you surprised
2019-04-01T15:45:21 < jadew> seems like a simple enough thing to do...
2019-04-01T15:45:31 < dongs> not when you consider who is doing the work
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2019-04-01T15:52:45 < jadew> they seem to have the best rates for > 100x100 mm boards
2019-04-01T15:54:00 < jadew> also, not sure if I hit a threshold, but shipping via HK DHL was free
2019-04-01T15:54:39 < jadew> and they had UPS as an option for ~$9
2019-04-01T15:54:49 < jadew> but I'd rather have DHL, since I know how to deal with them now
2019-04-01T16:07:46 < karlp> how the world turns
2019-04-01T16:24:49 < qyx> it doesn't
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2019-04-01T16:37:31 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/jP87ekv
2019-04-01T16:37:39 < Laurenceb> the turning point meme never gets old
2019-04-01T16:39:56 < zyp> jadew, if you wanna be picky, you usually have to pay for it
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2019-04-01T17:30:39 < kakimir> make pcb tight again dongs 
2019-04-01T17:39:30 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLf-MPOiSmA musics
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2019-04-01T17:47:54 < kakimir> implicit function declaration
2019-04-01T17:48:18 < kakimir> apparently it was no biggie
2019-04-01T17:50:21 < kakimir> I'm not sure why it worked with that there all along
2019-04-01T18:01:17 < kakimir> yes okay
2019-04-01T18:01:39 < kakimir> cannot contact target anymore
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2019-04-01T18:14:02 < kakimir> sweet
2019-04-01T18:14:08 < kakimir> I locked myself out
2019-04-01T18:19:24 < kakimir> SWDIO is high
2019-04-01T18:19:30 < kakimir> swdclk is low
2019-04-01T18:19:39 < kakimir> SWCLK*
2019-04-01T18:29:29 < kakimir> reflowtime
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2019-04-01T18:36:34 < jadew> zyp, I followed indications on their forum
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2019-04-01T18:37:09 < jadew> apparently now they have a different procedure, you have to write some text on the silkscreen and it will automatically get replaced
2019-04-01T18:37:21 < jadew> I don't see why they couldn't add the text in that box
2019-04-01T18:45:11 < karlp> I don't see why youcan't just add the text like they want:)
2019-04-01T18:45:41 < jadew> I want to do that, they didn't give me the option yet
2019-04-01T18:48:41 < karlp> you just said they do, "you have to write on ss, and it gets replaced" ?
2019-04-01T18:49:00 < jadew> yeah, but it wasn't clear to me which option to use, I found two, used one
2019-04-01T18:49:42 < jadew> I told them to either write that text themselves or let me re-upload the files, or just cancel the entire order
2019-04-01T18:49:54 < jadew> no answer yet, I guess their day is over
2019-04-01T18:50:58 < jadew> btw, you said you were expecting some boards from elecrow?
2019-04-01T18:51:23 < jadew> karlp ^
2019-04-01T18:51:43 < jadew> how do they look?
2019-04-01T18:51:48 < jadew> my last batch looked awful
2019-04-01T18:53:03 < jadew> from what I can tell, while most of the cheap PCB houses were using an actual silkscreen in their beginnings, only a handful still do
2019-04-01T18:53:37 < jadew> they're now just printing the silkscreen layer and the quality of the print seems to be from bad to worse
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2019-04-01T18:58:51 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfyTGYp7oyA
2019-04-01T19:27:43 < kakimir> oh I fried my debugger
2019-04-01T19:28:06 < kakimir> luckily there is spare
2019-04-01T19:32:52 < kakimir> what a mess
2019-04-01T19:37:36 < Steffanx> Stop it kakimir 
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2019-04-01T20:49:36 < zyp> hmm, the newest nrf52 parts does 802.15.4, kinda looks more interesting than stm32wb
2019-04-01T20:50:11 < zyp> I mean, hardware wise stm32wb is cuter, but CPU2 is locked down and the radio blobs are badly documented
2019-04-01T20:50:14 < mawk> what do you mean by newest?
2019-04-01T20:50:21 < mawk> the one I've got does 802154
2019-04-01T20:50:24 < mawk> that's why I bought it
2019-04-01T20:50:31 < mawk> nrf52840 iirc
2019-04-01T20:50:45 < zyp> yeah, that's the highend one
2019-04-01T20:50:53 < mawk> ah right
2019-04-01T20:51:04 < mawk> why do you think it's more interesting ? st looks more "open"
2019-04-01T20:51:11 < mawk> less reliance on a single badly documented sdk
2019-04-01T20:51:26 < zyp> how so? I'm arguing the opposite
2019-04-01T20:54:01 < zyp> I mean, nrf docs has the full register interface for the radio, so you're not relying on anything, you can just write everything from scratch if you want
2019-04-01T20:54:19 < mawk> yeah for the core itself the documentation is better on nrf side
2019-04-01T20:54:22 < mawk> but I meant the sdk
2019-04-01T20:54:47 < zyp> stm32wb doesn't document the radio registers, and even if they did, it's only accessible from CPU2 which is locked down so you can't run your own code on it
2019-04-01T20:54:52 < zyp> what do you need the sdk for?
2019-04-01T20:55:24 < zyp> every other peripheral is documented too
2019-04-01T20:55:26 < zyp> right?
2019-04-01T20:55:32 < mawk> yes
2019-04-01T20:55:51 < mawk> because in all your projects you poke registers directly?
2019-04-01T20:55:58 < mawk> or write your own layer
2019-04-01T20:56:04 < zyp> yeah, that's what I did
2019-04-01T20:56:08 < mawk> I see
2019-04-01T20:56:19 -!- gsi__ is now known as gsi_
2019-04-01T20:56:27 < mawk> yeah so I guess for non beginners the sdk point is moot
2019-04-01T20:56:54 < zyp> I even have it running on stm32wb, since it's not much new
2019-04-01T20:57:10 < zyp> wb is pretty much l4 with a radio subsystem bolted on
2019-04-01T20:57:22 < mawk> I was too lazy to go to the stm32wb workshop so I didn't get my free one
2019-04-01T20:57:58 < mawk> go to the other end of france for a single day didn't sound great
2019-04-01T20:58:13 < mawk> why didn't they do their workshop in the capital city
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2019-04-01T20:58:46 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY5-WUmK2iY kakibass seal of approval
2019-04-01T20:59:08 < zyp> apparently the workshop ones had unlocked ES chips
2019-04-01T20:59:35 < zyp> that could actually run your own code on CPU2 :p
2019-04-01T21:00:17 < mawk> :((
2019-04-01T21:01:27 < zyp> I looked into attempting to reverse engineer the register interface, but it turned out impossible to unlock CPU2 to load my own code anyway
2019-04-01T21:01:44 < zyp> so eh
2019-04-01T21:01:46 < mawk> yeah I remember that
2019-04-01T21:02:14 < mawk> I've seen papers about vulns in st core lockdowns tho
2019-04-01T21:02:22 < mawk> maybe you can try to get hackerish
2019-04-01T21:02:31 < zyp> maybe later
2019-04-01T21:02:45 < mawk> it was with some rowhammer to unlock the core iirf
2019-04-01T21:02:46 < mawk> iirc
2019-04-01T21:02:51 < zyp> hehe
2019-04-01T21:03:08 < kakimir> there is stm32 hack scene?
2019-04-01T21:03:21 < mawk> yeah, it's normal
2019-04-01T21:03:38 < mawk> since stm32 is used in all kind of devices including bitcoin hw wallets
2019-04-01T21:03:45 < mawk> so people are interested in hacking it
2019-04-01T21:03:56 < zyp> well, it's not a big deal, I could live with having to run the mac802.15.4 blob on CPU2, if I just had some decent documentation on how to talk to it
2019-04-01T21:04:29 < mawk> but 802.15.4 is fully open, it's not like zigbee or thread which basically requires to have a blob if you want to keep the cert
2019-04-01T21:04:33 < kakimir> mawk: what kind of exploits there are?
2019-04-01T21:04:38 < mawk> so I don't get the lockdown
2019-04-01T21:04:48 < mawk> unlocking the security bits in the eeprom kakimir 
2019-04-01T21:04:58 < mawk> the thing that prevents debug and access to flash
2019-04-01T21:05:05 < zyp> mawk, I already managed to unlock the security bits
2019-04-01T21:05:10 < zyp> that's how I bricked it
2019-04-01T21:05:11 < mawk> ah !
2019-04-01T21:05:13 < mawk> lol
2019-04-01T21:05:35 < zyp> because erasing the security bits also wipes all flash, including the blob decrypter
2019-04-01T21:05:52 < mawk> right
2019-04-01T21:06:01 < zyp> but apparently the CPU2 security bit is hardwired to 1, regardless of what option bits says
2019-04-01T21:06:01 < mawk> but that's like a soft brick then
2019-04-01T21:06:05 < mawk> it's recoverable
2019-04-01T21:06:05 < mawk> ah
2019-04-01T21:06:07 < mawk> I see
2019-04-01T21:06:14 < mawk> ugly hacks from ST
2019-04-01T21:06:18 < zyp> no, it's not
2019-04-01T21:06:32 < kakimir> mawk: walk me thru it
2019-04-01T21:06:44 < zyp> I erased CPU2 area of flash and it's still locked so it's impossible to write anything else there
2019-04-01T21:07:03 < zyp> not recoverable unless it's possible to completely unlock it
2019-04-01T21:07:21 < kakimir> why don't they use fuses
2019-04-01T21:07:28 < mawk> the hack from the paper I mentionned kakimir? I'm not an expert, but basically rowhammer is toggling quickly neighbouring DRAM rows in order to flip the row in between you don't have access to 
2019-04-01T21:07:40 < mawk> all because of electrical properties of RAM
2019-04-01T21:07:53 < mawk> and refresh rate not high enough
2019-04-01T21:08:11 < kakimir> hmm
2019-04-01T21:08:26 < kakimir> doing rowhammer experiment shouldn't be that hard
2019-04-01T21:08:48 < kakimir> but doesn't that rowhammering then cause any practical problems
2019-04-01T21:08:56 < kakimir> if done unintentionally
2019-04-01T21:09:15 < kakimir> like some status flags that are used really frequently
2019-04-01T21:09:42 < mawk> yes
2019-04-01T21:09:57 < mawk> it's not 100% success rate
2019-04-01T21:10:41 < kakimir> do you have that paper?
2019-04-01T21:12:30 < mawk> let me look
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2019-04-01T21:16:55 < mawk> can't find it here, I'll grep through my irc logs when I'm home
2019-04-01T21:17:41 < Laurenceb> https://www.change.org/p/project-42-pty-ltd-refund-our-money-from-the-event-feminism
2019-04-01T21:19:01 < mawk> lol
2019-04-01T21:21:30 < mawk> I'm asking to the guy that talked to me about it kakimir 
2019-04-01T21:22:33 < kakimir> lurencer hello
2019-04-01T21:24:34 < mawk> 25 signatures Laurenceb admit it you're the one that runs the petition
2019-04-01T21:24:41 < Laurenceb> maybe...
2019-04-01T21:26:09 < kakimir> let's talk about babby shaker
2019-04-01T21:47:09 < Steffanx> nothing to talk about.
2019-04-01T22:00:26 < kakimir> you got my point
2019-04-01T22:01:10 < kakimir> it's to silence lurencer
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2019-04-01T22:07:59 < Steffanx> So hows the day mr kakimir?
2019-04-01T22:08:29 < mawk> I found it kakimir 
2019-04-01T22:08:34 < mawk> using the cleverest grep command
2019-04-01T22:08:35 < mawk> https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/woot17/woot17-paper-obermaier.pdf
2019-04-01T22:08:36 < kakimir> Steffanx: good
2019-04-01T22:09:35 < mawk> but it's not using rowhammer I remembered it wrong
2019-04-01T22:09:42 < mawk> since it's SRAM anyway not DRAM I believe ?
2019-04-01T22:09:59 < mawk> it's by decapping the core and using UV light to mess with bits
2019-04-01T22:11:25 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-01T22:12:01 < kakimir> so repeat until success?
2019-04-01T22:12:37 < kakimir> it's funny it has relay to switch power to DUA
2019-04-01T22:13:16 < mawk> yeah I guess
2019-04-01T22:13:34 < kakimir> okay it because device will be attacked intact
2019-04-01T22:13:44 < kakimir> not loose chip
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2019-04-01T23:20:02 < Thorn> semtech driver is using floating point https://github.com/Lora-net/LoRaMac-node/blob/develop/src/radio/sx1276/sx1276.c#L262
2019-04-01T23:21:11 < Thorn> because they don't know how to divide with proper rounding using integers
2019-04-01T23:22:25 < Thorn> oh lol there's more of the same thing in there
2019-04-01T23:24:20 < kakimir> how do I create a program that is completelly executed from ram?
2019-04-01T23:24:41 < zyp> in what sense?
2019-04-01T23:25:00 < zyp> you just link it for ram, load it into ram and execute it
2019-04-01T23:25:07 < kakimir> if chip has a bootmode
2019-04-01T23:25:16 < kakimir> that I can stuff code to ram
2019-04-01T23:25:26 < kakimir> via serial
2019-04-01T23:25:38 < kakimir> okay
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2019-04-01T23:44:21 < karlp> jadew: they look ok to me, but for protos I only really care about relevant things, so my tolerance may not be relevant for you if you care a lot about silk quality
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2019-04-01T23:54:01 < kakimir> zyp: let's say my chip is locked.. but I have flash manipulation functions available. How do I do a hypothetical firmware update?
2019-04-01T23:55:56 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/YO9IRF/status/1112714342204694529
2019-04-01T23:56:16 < kakimir> hey wild idea
2019-04-01T23:56:22 < zyp> kakimir, please elaborate
2019-04-01T23:56:35 < kakimir> there is no external access to flash
2019-04-01T23:56:42 < kakimir> or anything
2019-04-01T23:56:53 < zyp> but you can load to ram and execute from ram?
2019-04-01T23:56:59 < kakimir> nope
2019-04-01T23:57:22 < zyp> what do you mean by flash manipulation functions then?
2019-04-01T23:57:55 < kakimir> my user program can manipulate flash all it wants
2019-04-01T23:58:19 < zyp> ah, right, so you'll be locking the chip?
2019-04-01T23:58:23 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-01T23:58:31 < kakimir> it's unreversable
2019-04-01T23:58:35 < zyp> yeah, that's a fairly normal situation
2019-04-01T23:59:20 < kakimir> maybe I could call conditionally bootloader from ROM 8)
2019-04-01T23:59:44 < kakimir> it would be ideal
2019-04-01T23:59:58 < zyp> calling the ROM bootloader is probably a bad idea, you'll probably want to write your own
--- Day changed Tue Apr 02 2019
2019-04-02T00:00:03 < kakimir> but the bootloader then reads boot flags
2019-04-02T00:00:21 < zyp> so that you can do the necessary verifications of the new firmware before executing it
2019-04-02T00:00:22 < kakimir> bootloader actually is called in every reset
2019-04-02T00:00:27 < zyp> consider this
2019-04-02T00:00:40 < zyp> you're locking the chip to protect something
2019-04-02T00:01:23 < kakimir> certainly
2019-04-02T00:01:52 < zyp> the firmware upgrade process must then also be performed in a secure way to uphold the security, otherwise everything breaks down
2019-04-02T00:02:06 < kakimir> it needs to be signed
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2019-04-02T00:03:19 < kakimir> my chip could hold the current firmware three times and over
2019-04-02T00:03:49 < zyp> if the point of protection is that you're storing confidential data or something, like crypto keys, if somebody can get their own code running in your chip they can have it read out and dump everything
2019-04-02T00:04:04 < kakimir> no
2019-04-02T00:04:14 < zyp> then what?
2019-04-02T00:04:28 < kakimir> only the program itself
2019-04-02T00:04:35 < zyp> yeah, same goes
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2019-04-02T00:04:49 < zyp> proprietary code, crypto keys, other secret stuff
2019-04-02T00:05:16 < zyp> if you want to protect the code itself, you probably want to encrypt it, not just sign it
2019-04-02T00:05:26 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-02T00:05:43 < kakimir> it's not user updateable
2019-04-02T00:05:47 < zyp> otherwise the attacker can just steal it before/while it's being loaded
2019-04-02T00:05:48 < kakimir> service only
2019-04-02T00:06:03 < zyp> ah
2019-04-02T00:06:11 < zyp> well, still
2019-04-02T00:07:00 < zyp> do you trust everybody that will be performing service on your device?
2019-04-02T00:07:09 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-02T00:07:22 < kakimir> hmm
2019-04-02T00:07:32 < kakimir> it can be centralized
2019-04-02T00:07:44 < zyp> if you end to end encrypt it, the firmware binaries are worthless to middlemen, so the service tool is nonsensitive
2019-04-02T00:08:23 < zyp> but eh
2019-04-02T00:08:28 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-02T00:08:29 < kakimir> eh
2019-04-02T00:08:32 < kakimir> have you done it?
2019-04-02T00:08:38 < zyp> done what?
2019-04-02T00:08:48 < kakimir> upgradeable firmware
2019-04-02T00:09:02 < zyp> upgradeable firmware, sure
2019-04-02T00:09:42 < zyp> but I haven't bothered with security, it's not required for anything I do
2019-04-02T00:09:51 < kakimir> does it replace old binary?
2019-04-02T00:10:34 < zyp> all my private stuff is opensource anyway, and workstuff is still only in prototype stages, so we don't need to worry about IP theft anytime soon
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2019-04-02T00:11:20 < kakimir> but are you ready when they go for your IP?
2019-04-02T00:11:39 < zyp> for my stuff I normally do a bootloader stage and a single application stage
2019-04-02T00:13:19 < zyp> bootloader always executes first, checks if application image is missing, checks if a flag in ram is set and checks if any other booloader trigger is set, if any of those are true it executes the bootloader, otherwise it jumps to the application stage
2019-04-02T00:14:09 < zyp> first condition is just a convenience thing that mostly applies to fresh devices, second condition is the normal use one; application stage sets the flags and resets when instructed to bootload
2019-04-02T00:14:50 < zyp> third condition is the fallback for when application stage is broken and somehow is not able to perform the switch to bootloader
2019-04-02T00:15:06 < zyp> that way there's always a way to enter the bootloader
2019-04-02T00:15:42 < zyp> on my nfc reader, the bootloader trigger is a plain button that you hold while powering the board up to enter bootloader
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2019-04-02T00:16:02 < zyp> on arcin, the bootloader trigger is a particular pattern of buttons to hold while powering it up
2019-04-02T00:16:07 < kakimir> secret code bootloader
2019-04-02T00:16:15 < zyp> just like on smartphones
2019-04-02T00:16:47 < zyp> usually on smartphones you hold a volume button or something while turning on to enter bootloader
2019-04-02T00:17:04 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-02T00:17:21 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/bootloader.cpp#n255 <- the code for this is pretty easy
2019-04-02T00:17:23 < kakimir> is there like these bootloaders - available
2019-04-02T00:17:41 < zyp> well, there you have one :p
2019-04-02T00:18:06 < zyp> that one uses HID to communicate
2019-04-02T00:18:17 < zyp> also have a DFU frontend for the same thing somewhere
2019-04-02T00:18:48 < zyp> the one I'm using for workstuff is currently using plain ethernet frames
2019-04-02T00:18:51 < kakimir> do you need to link your application to certain location on flash?
2019-04-02T00:18:59 < zyp> yes
2019-04-02T00:19:23 < zyp> on arcin, bootloader gets first 0x2000 of flash, so application starts at 0x8002000
2019-04-02T00:19:39 < kakimir> what is arcin
2019-04-02T00:19:41 < zyp> ref. https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/arcin.ld
2019-04-02T00:20:09 < zyp> my most selling hobby product :p
2019-04-02T00:20:36 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/QTIae.JPG
2019-04-02T00:21:28 < kakimir> what makes it sell?
2019-04-02T00:24:20 < kakimir> m0 doesn't have VTOR
2019-04-02T00:24:31 < zyp> correct, m0 is trash
2019-04-02T00:24:36 < kakimir> correct
2019-04-02T00:24:37 < zyp> m0+ has it
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2019-04-02T00:24:55 < zyp> which is the sole reason I'm using l0 rather than f0 on my nfc readers :)
2019-04-02T00:25:40 < kakimir> lack of VTOR is only obstacle
2019-04-02T00:25:49 < kakimir> if you plan to go full mad
2019-04-02T00:26:10 < zyp> cortex-r doesn't have it either
2019-04-02T00:26:19 < zyp> which makes my workstuff fun
2019-04-02T00:26:40 < kakimir> have you done anything mad to workaround it?
2019-04-02T00:26:47 < zyp> not yet
2019-04-02T00:27:08 < zyp> the thing about cortex-r is that it doesn't have the modern NVIC that cortex-m got
2019-04-02T00:27:33 < zyp> so there's a main vector table with only like six vectors, and this is not relocatable
2019-04-02T00:27:51 < kakimir> hmm
2019-04-02T00:28:15 < zyp> but two of the entries (IRQ and FIQ) just feeds directly into the VIC
2019-04-02T00:28:26 < zyp> which has a second level vector table, stored in some sort of ram
2019-04-02T00:29:00 < kakimir> why is this?
2019-04-02T00:29:02 < zyp> so for the time being, I don't do anything about the main vector table, application just updates the VIC table
2019-04-02T00:29:26 < zyp> which means I get everything except fault handlers
2019-04-02T00:29:37 < zyp> and so far I just ignore faults
2019-04-02T00:30:33 < zyp> at some point when I need to start worrying about faults, I guess I'll either have the bootloader handle all faults, or dispatch to the application handlers
2019-04-02T00:31:11 < zyp> re: why, as far as I can tell that was how it was traditionally done pre-armv7
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2019-04-02T00:32:24 < zyp> the VIC is an optional component, simpler hardware probably just had a single IRQ handler dispatching in software
2019-04-02T00:34:21 < zyp> hmm
2019-04-02T00:35:22 < qyx> mhm cannot you remap sram to 0x0 when no VTOR is avasilable?
2019-04-02T00:36:02 < zyp> yes, that is one possible workaround on hardware that's able to do that
2019-04-02T00:36:22 < zyp> I wonder if I should pick up some nrf52840 hardware for my zigbee project
2019-04-02T00:36:25 < qyx> iirc F0 has the ability
2019-04-02T00:37:21 < kakimir> lets search remap
2019-04-02T00:37:31 < zyp> or if that is just a «grass is greener on the other side» thing, so I'll end up with a bunch of potential hardware without any usable software because I always run into some roadblock or another
2019-04-02T00:37:49 < zyp> hmm
2019-04-02T00:38:00 < Steffanx> Just go for it
2019-04-02T00:38:02 < zyp> I already have a nrf52 devkit somewhere
2019-04-02T00:38:10 < Steffanx> Hah
2019-04-02T00:38:35 < zyp> but I think that was a sample revision chip
2019-04-02T00:38:52 < zyp> of the first ones that probably doesn't do 802.15.4
2019-04-02T00:38:54 < kakimir> yes this thing hase vector remap
2019-04-02T00:40:02 < kakimir> nic
2019-04-02T00:40:25 < zyp> ah, yeah, «nRF52-preview-DK»
2019-04-02T00:40:33 < zyp> nRF52832
2019-04-02T00:41:22 < zyp> apparently it doesn't do 802.15.4
2019-04-02T00:41:43 < zyp> only BLE and nordic proprietary
2019-04-02T00:43:45 < aandrew> 52832 does not. 52840 does
2019-04-02T00:44:01 < zyp> yes
2019-04-02T00:44:09 < zyp> also 52811
2019-04-02T00:44:18 < zyp> but 52840 looks more fun :)
2019-04-02T00:45:01 < zyp> the stuff I did some altium consulting on recently had a 52840, cute footprint
2019-04-02T00:45:36 < kakimir> as vector table is in rom that is why there is veneers for interrupts that must be something like constant size
2019-04-02T00:45:44 < zyp> (part of the work I did was reviewing footprints, that the layout subcontractors hadn't fucked them up)
2019-04-02T00:46:09 < kakimir> vector table points to veneers and veneers call interrupt service routines
2019-04-02T00:46:11 < kakimir> sweet
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2019-04-02T00:46:57 < zyp> maybe I should ask the guy I consulted for if he got some leftover 52840 hardware he doesn't need anymore :p
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2019-04-02T00:50:50 < zyp> hmm, seeed got a bunch of cheap nrf52840 shit
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2019-04-02T01:02:23 < kakimir> what is SVCall
2019-04-02T01:02:48 < kakimir> ##stm32 night of dumb questions
2019-04-02T01:03:12 < zyp> service call
2019-04-02T01:03:37 < zyp> there's a svc instructions, it triggers the SVCall interrupt
2019-04-02T01:03:40 < zyp> -s
2019-04-02T01:03:58 < kakimir> I have never thought it twice
2019-04-02T01:04:26 < kakimir> oh it might be important with operating system?
2019-04-02T01:04:54 < zyp> yeah, it's a way to get out from unprivileged code
2019-04-02T01:05:18 < zyp> in my code I use it for thread::yield()
2019-04-02T01:05:40 < zyp> so the SVCall handler changes threads
2019-04-02T01:08:14 < kakimir> I remember yield
2019-04-02T01:08:22 < kakimir> freertos foolaround
2019-04-02T01:08:53 < kakimir> are you having your own OS?
2019-04-02T01:09:26 < zyp> eh, there's some OS parts of laks: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/os/thread.h
2019-04-02T01:09:31 < zyp> but I don't use them much
2019-04-02T01:09:50 < zyp> all my mature projects are singlethreaded
2019-04-02T01:10:52 < kakimir> my projects are singlethreaded
2019-04-02T01:11:24 < kakimir> you can have threads without operating system?
2019-04-02T01:12:04 < zyp> what's an operating system?
2019-04-02T01:12:28 < kakimir> supervisor
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2019-04-02T01:23:37 < kakimir> *a supervisor
2019-04-02T01:24:44 < zyp> heh, this stuff is documented so well: https://www.nordicsemi.com/DocLib/Content/SDK_Doc/Thread_SDK/v2-0-0/group__api__zb
2019-04-02T01:25:17 < zyp> this actually looks usable
2019-04-02T01:27:43 < kakimir> I think when using OpenOCD debugging chip doesn't load vector table to RAM
2019-04-02T01:28:02 < kakimir> bootloader should do it
2019-04-02T01:34:44 < jadew> sup?
2019-04-02T01:36:18 < kakimir> I need to look what mem viewer is sayin
2019-04-02T01:47:13 < zyp> okay, ordered both dongle and DK for nrf52840
2019-04-02T01:47:44 < kakimir> oh there is no remapping that can be done by user
2019-04-02T01:48:58 < zyp> thought about picking up dongle only, but shipping made that kinda expensive, thought about getting two dongles, but then I concluded I might as well just get a dongle and a DK, and then I'm over free shipping limit
2019-04-02T02:00:52 < ds2> what are you using the 840 for?
2019-04-02T02:16:54 < kakimir> hey
2019-04-02T02:17:02 < kakimir> anyone awake?
2019-04-02T02:19:00 < kakimir> https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-xmc1100-AA_rm-UM-v01_01-EN.pdf?fileId=5546d46255dd933d0155e31753b077af I cannot make sense of this remapping scheme in page 63 and forward
2019-04-02T02:19:37 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-02T02:19:53 < kakimir> it's remapped in both flash and ram
2019-04-02T02:20:07 < kakimir> Initial SP and Reset are in flash
2019-04-02T02:20:16 < kakimir> others are mapped to ram
2019-04-02T02:24:15 < zyp> ds2, I wanna be doing zigbee
2019-04-02T02:24:26 < zyp> same project I planned to use stm32wb for
2019-04-02T02:25:06 < zyp> kinda got tired of trying to figure out stm32wb without proper documentation
2019-04-02T02:28:51 < kakimir> wb?
2019-04-02T02:33:25 < kakimir> wut
2019-04-02T02:33:28 < karlp> pay attention kakks
2019-04-02T02:33:30 < kakimir> wireless
2019-04-02T02:33:53 < zyp> oh, AN5185 is published now, it wasn't last I checked
2019-04-02T02:34:03 < ds2> zyp: are you planning on using the bare chip?
2019-04-02T02:34:30 < zyp> 52840? still undecided
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2019-04-02T02:34:57 < zyp> not gonna make any hardware before I have software running
2019-04-02T02:36:10 < ds2> been looking all over for a 840 module... want the LR PHY
2019-04-02T02:37:04 < zyp> but considering there seems to be plenty of cheap modules and the hardware I'm planning to make is fairly simple, I figure the cheapest way would be to just drop a module onto a 2L board
2019-04-02T02:37:14 < zyp> looking all over?
2019-04-02T02:37:33 < ds2> there aren't that many 840 modules and I wanted it small
2019-04-02T02:37:54 < zyp> when did you check? I found a ton earlier tonight
2019-04-02T02:38:02 < zyp> aliexpress has a bunch of $5 ones
2019-04-02T02:38:04 < ds2> those are big
2019-04-02T02:38:39 < ds2> ~5mmx11mm range
2019-04-02T02:39:16 < zyp> https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32984570877.html <- I'm talking about this
2019-04-02T02:39:29 < zyp> doesn't look like you can make it any smaller and still fit any passives around the chip :p
2019-04-02T02:41:07 < karlp> htat's pretty nice price
2019-04-02T02:41:40 < ds2> seems to be a lot more passives then needed
2019-04-02T02:41:51 < zyp> needed for what?
2019-04-02T02:42:02 < ds2> for a 840 module
2019-04-02T02:43:56 < zyp> from what I can tell it contains antenna matching, crystal, decoupling and inductor for the builtin SMPS, what of that do you not want?
2019-04-02T02:44:23 < zyp> and if you don't want that, why don't you just go with the bare chip?
2019-04-02T02:47:18 < zyp> karlp, that's what I figure too
2019-04-02T02:47:24 < ds2> don't need it to suport the SMPS 
2019-04-02T02:48:16 < karlp> ladidad then, time to do your own.
2019-04-02T02:48:26 < karlp> you want to be that guy withh the hotglued tricorder?
2019-04-02T02:51:18 < zyp> https://www.fanstel.com/bc840 <- something like this then?
2019-04-02T02:51:33 < zyp> or is that still too big?
2019-04-02T02:51:46 < zyp> hmm, good price on that one too
2019-04-02T02:51:55 < kakimir> what are you guise doing?
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2019-04-02T02:52:17 < kakimir> some sexy bl5.0 stuff
2019-04-02T02:52:18 < zyp> looks more annoying to route than the chip itself though :p
2019-04-02T02:53:22 < karlp> the "bigger" one has the long range ds2 seems to want.
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2019-04-02T02:53:42 < ds2> fanstel is as close as I got
2019-04-02T02:53:54 < ds2> rumor has it there are smaller ones due out later in the year
2019-04-02T02:54:36 < zyp> karlp, isn't it just a larger/better antenna?
2019-04-02T02:56:07 < zyp> https://www.insightsip.com/products/bluetooth-smart-modules/isp1807 <- heh, this one looks cute too
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2019-04-02T02:57:10 < kakimir> that thing has probably more processing power than personal computer from 90s
2019-04-02T02:57:47 < zyp> like every other modern mcu
2019-04-02T02:58:23 < kakimir> how fast that cortex core is?
2019-04-02T02:59:03 < karlp> mountains of BT socs these days
2019-04-02T02:59:10 < karlp> s/socs/modules/g
2019-04-02T02:59:42 < zyp> yeah, but fuck BT
2019-04-02T02:59:45 < zyp> I want 802.15.4
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2019-04-02T03:01:28  * karlp has never tried using BLE in anger, but 802.15.4 seems to be tapering off into closed dead ends.
2019-04-02T03:01:34 < karlp> BLE is on phones, it's winning
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2019-04-02T03:02:56 < zyp> how many BLE devices do you own?
2019-04-02T03:04:05 < karlp> 0, I thhink.
2019-04-02T03:04:09 < karlp> same as 802.15.4
2019-04-02T03:04:14 < karlp> if you exclude my own.
2019-04-02T03:04:33 < ds2> is 802.15.4 6LoPAN?
2019-04-02T03:04:50 < karlp> 6lowpan is normally on 802.15.4 yues, but it doesn't have to be.
2019-04-02T03:04:51 < zyp> 6lowpan builds on 802.15.4, yes
2019-04-02T03:04:56 < zyp> as do zigbee
2019-04-02T03:05:09 < zyp> karlp, it doesn't?
2019-04-02T03:05:16 < ds2> zigbee has that key mess
2019-04-02T03:05:22 < karlp> pretty sure it's not meant to, but really does in practise
2019-04-02T03:05:35 < ds2> wonder if the 840 can run 6LoPAN and BLE at the same time
2019-04-02T03:05:53 < zyp> ds2, marketing docs claim so
2019-04-02T03:06:02 < zyp> apparently there's a timeshare API
2019-04-02T03:06:24 < ds2> supposely there is 2 radios in the 840
2019-04-02T03:06:28 < zyp> ds2, what key mess?
2019-04-02T03:06:40 < zyp> 2? as in the NFC one also?
2019-04-02T03:06:52 < ds2> zigbee wants some keys to pair up
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2019-04-02T03:07:09 < ds2> so 2 zigbee devices won't work unless the keys are sorted out
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2019-04-02T03:07:16 < karlp> yeah, ble+802.15.4 simultaneous is the selling poitn of the newer stuff
2019-04-02T03:07:18 < ds2> no, 2 2.4GHz radio
2019-04-02T03:07:31 < ds2> one regular and one that supports the LR stuff
2019-04-02T03:07:40 < karlp> "LR" ?
2019-04-02T03:08:10 < zyp> ds2, not according to the manual, I have it open
2019-04-02T03:08:38 < zyp> as far as I can understand, LR is just a lower bitrate mode for BLE, is that correct?
2019-04-02T03:08:40 < ds2> maybe I am mixing up radios and PHYs
2019-04-02T03:08:54 < zyp> it's the same thing
2019-04-02T03:09:02 < ds2> LR is a different encoding 
2019-04-02T03:09:17 < ds2> effect is lower bit rate but more robust
2019-04-02T03:09:27 < zyp> yeah, exactly
2019-04-02T03:09:43 < zyp> same radio does it all
2019-04-02T03:10:56 < zyp> also, idk what you mean by key mess, all radio devices either needs to negotiate an encryption key or run unencrypted, and as far as I can tell zigbee isn't any more messy in that sense than other protocols
2019-04-02T03:11:03 < ds2> this suggests there are 2 phys: https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/20803/nrf52840-coded-phy-for-long-range-application
2019-04-02T03:11:21 < ds2> "Please download the latest Softdevice, S140 v5.0.0-3.alpha. The new feature is support for establishing Bluetooth low energy connections directly on the long range PHY, the previous versions of the S140 only supported connections on the 1Mbit PHY."
2019-04-02T03:11:34 < ds2> LR vs 1M PHY's
2019-04-02T03:12:54 < zyp> radio block diagram doesn't show different phys anywhere
2019-04-02T03:13:08 < ds2> I am looking at the Zigbee stuff from the HA point of view and getting off the shelf devices to play nicely with custom stuff boils down to keys
2019-04-02T03:13:34 < zyp> radio has a MODE register, which has 7 different valid values
2019-04-02T03:14:09 < ds2> zyp: I was at the nordic seminar for this part and they also indirectly allude to the 2nd PHY...maybe it shares a lot of things
2019-04-02T03:14:11 < zyp> to choose between nrf framing, ble framing or 802.15.4 framing and 125k, 250k, 500k, 1M or 2M bitrate
2019-04-02T03:16:56 < zyp> I assume that by «PHY» in your quote, people are talking about the PHY layer protocol, not the PHY hardware in itself
2019-04-02T03:18:20 < zyp> the manual also appears to use «PHY» in this sense
2019-04-02T03:18:24 < zyp> «With the MODE=Ieee802154_250kbit the radio module will comply with the IEEE 802.15.4-2006 standard implementing its 250 kbps 2450MHz O-QPSK PHY.»
2019-04-02T03:19:18 < zyp> going by that sense, having seven modes would then mean that the chip supports seven PHYs
2019-04-02T03:19:40 < zyp> still only one radio
2019-04-02T03:21:47 < zyp> ds2, I still don't see what the problem with keys are, there are standard pairing procedures
2019-04-02T03:26:13 < zyp> karlp, I think I've got one BLE device (counting actual end user stuff, not various BLE-capable dev hardware), and it's kinda useless as it only talks to its own phone app
2019-04-02T03:27:13 < zyp> while on the 802.15.4 side, I've got at least two zigbee meshes with a bunch of devices (ikea lights, xiaomi sensors), which integrates with the other smarthome stuff
2019-04-02T03:27:56 < ds2> zyp: take a look at this convoluted setup process - https://www.openhab.org/v2.4/addons/bindings/zigbee/
2019-04-02T03:30:23 < zyp> scanning a QR code? doesn't sound all that convoluted to me
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2019-04-02T03:31:18 < zyp> I haven't touched zigbee HA yet, I'm mainly focusing on ZLL which pairs through «touchlink»
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2019-04-02T03:32:12 < zyp> which uses some proximity magic to do a handshake
2019-04-02T03:34:00 < zyp> the HA pairing sounds better though, I assume the install code is used to derive a unique link key for pairing
2019-04-02T03:36:49 -!- Laurenceb_ [~laurence@81.141.246.69] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-02T03:36:54 < Laurenceb_> https://imgur.com/CjbPJh8
2019-04-02T03:37:00 < Laurenceb_> the Trump family
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2019-04-02T06:24:07 < enh> HI
2019-04-02T06:24:25 < enh> aandrew:  woke?
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2019-04-02T06:38:33 < R2COM> yo
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2019-04-02T06:49:41 < s34n_> I would like to make a simple speed controller for a universal motor
2019-04-02T06:50:22 < s34n_> from what I have read the best option sounds like using a triac to control angle
2019-04-02T06:50:48 < s34n_> oh. I mean to use a microcontroller. forgot to mention that
2019-04-02T06:51:38 -!- enh [~enhering@45.232.36.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-04-02T06:51:39 < s34n_> is it really so simple as connecting an mc to the triac gate?
2019-04-02T06:54:53 < kiki_lamb> s34n_: I don't know a lot about triacs... how much voltage/current is needed to operate it's gate? if that's within what the MCU can produce you might be okay, if not you might need some buffering in between.
2019-04-02T06:57:24 < s34n_> kiki_lamb: by "buffer" you mean resistance?
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2019-04-02T06:57:42 < R2COM> \damn im so tired today
2019-04-02T06:58:12 < R2COM> these fucktards at work fully drain my energy\
2019-04-02T06:59:33 < kiki_lamb> s34n_: by 'buffer', I mean something to strengthen the signal either in terms of voltage or current. depending on which you need and how much, this could involve transistor, opamps or relays.
2019-04-02T07:00:03 < s34n_> ok
2019-04-02T07:00:04 < kiki_lamb> s34n_: but the first step is to find the answer to the question of how much voltage/current the triac needs.
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2019-04-02T07:00:25 < s34n_> yeah. I haven't selected a triac yet
2019-04-02T07:00:32 < kiki_lamb> once you know that, you'll have an idea whether it can hook directly to the MCU or whether you need something in between.
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2019-04-02T07:01:21 < kiki_lamb> okay. like i said, i don't know a great deal about triacs specifically, but figuring out whether the MCU can meet a device's voltage/current demands is nearly always the first step in determining whether it can hook directly to the MCU or needs something in between.
2019-04-02T07:01:22 < R2COM> define "universal motor"
2019-04-02T07:01:46 < s34n_> also, when a triac is off it's really off, right? I keep reading things that make it sound like it can't go to zero, but that doesn't make sense to me
2019-04-02T07:01:52 < R2COM> you are rushing in giving him advise without first trying to figure what on earth type of motor he wants to control
2019-04-02T07:02:16 < s34n_> R2COM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_motor
2019-04-02T07:02:29 < R2COM> oh
2019-04-02T07:02:31 < kiki_lamb> s34n_: you may also want to try ##electronics. (i'm not saying 'don't ask here', just pointing out that that channel is likely to contain people who know things about triacs)
2019-04-02T07:03:18 < R2COM> where is that shit even used
2019-04-02T07:03:26 < s34n_> kiki_lamb: :) thanks. I have ##electronics open, too. I thought I was there, actually.
2019-04-02T07:03:34 < kiki_lamb> R2COM: well, the advice I'm giving basically amounts to 'read the data sheet for your parts', that's almost always good advice.
2019-04-02T07:03:38 < s34n_> I didn't mean to bother you guys yet
2019-04-02T07:04:10 < s34n_> R2COM: it's used in lots of places
2019-04-02T07:04:25 < s34n_> blenders, hand drills, sewing machines, ...
2019-04-02T07:05:04 < s34n_> lots of places where motors are supposed to run at variable speeds
2019-04-02T07:06:15 < R2COM> i think ST has landing page
2019-04-02T07:06:18 < R2COM> https://www.st.com/en/applications/motor-control/universal-motor.html
2019-04-02T07:06:26 < R2COM> where they show 3 ways to control that shit
2019-04-02T07:07:18 < R2COM> and here goes the app note with schematics
2019-04-02T07:07:19 < R2COM> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/38/51/d6/de/c1/73/43/9b/CD00003829.pdf/files/CD00003829.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00003829.pdf
2019-04-02T07:07:20 < R2COM> go!
2019-04-02T07:14:02 < s34n_> yes. I've read multiple app notes from ST and seen several schematics from them including eval boards
2019-04-02T07:14:43 < s34n_> most are old and involve mc that don't exist anymore
2019-04-02T07:15:06 < s34n_> or don't have the abilities of an F103 even
2019-04-02T07:16:08 < s34n_> R2COM: but the first link you gave is the last one I read
2019-04-02T07:16:20 < s34n_> which makes it look so simple
2019-04-02T07:18:44 < s34n_> but the AC schematic in your second link (which I've also read) is not so simple
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2019-04-02T08:05:15 < s34n_> The STM32F103 should only need 1W supply, right?
2019-04-02T08:15:49 < Rickta59> 10mA
2019-04-02T08:42:15 < s34n_> Rickta59: the smallest I can find is 300mA
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2019-04-02T11:28:11 < englishman> good morning yuros
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2019-04-02T11:49:20 < zyp> sup?
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2019-04-02T11:59:45 < englishman> cats
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2019-04-02T12:16:09 < dongs> hello eevblog watchers
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2019-04-02T12:49:01 < zyp> hmm
2019-04-02T12:49:25 < zyp> guy asked me if I have any suggestions for how to detect cellphones
2019-04-02T12:49:49 < zyp> anybody seen any modules that'd do something like that?
2019-04-02T12:55:36 < zyp> yeah, I'm guessing there's no turnkey modules, so I'm guessing you'd either have to do some simple analog shit to detect RF energy or some SDR stuff to analyse spectrum
2019-04-02T12:55:49 < zyp> https://www.bastille.net/ <- this seems to be a product built on the latter
2019-04-02T13:18:26 < zyp> hmm
2019-04-02T13:19:21 < zyp> I think the main problem with stm32wb is that it's so new that all the documentation is not released yet
2019-04-02T13:20:32 < zyp> the recently released AN5185 explains a bunch already, and it refers to AN5289 that apparently will explain how the shared memory stuff is used
2019-04-02T13:28:38 < zyp> «Deleting FUS is not possible.»
2019-04-02T13:28:42 < zyp> except I did that
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2019-04-02T14:38:56 < day> zyp: you were the one driving an egolf right?
2019-04-02T14:40:17 < zyp> yes
2019-04-02T14:41:34 < day> zyp: im curious why does the car top out at 150km/h while having 136hp :|
2019-04-02T14:41:47 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXRVqxJeeYw
2019-04-02T14:43:07 < zyp> day, 115hp in my case, I got the older model
2019-04-02T14:43:34 < zyp> it's got a speed limiter, power is reduced when you approach max speed
2019-04-02T14:46:09 < zyp> I don't worry too much about it, highest speed limits in norway are 110km/h anyway
2019-04-02T14:48:57 < zyp> maybe if I lived in germany, it'd feel like a limitation, but over here it's not
2019-04-02T14:50:45 < Thorn> https://usb.org/sites/default/files/2019-03/USB_PG_USB4_DevUpdate_Announcement_FINAL_20190226.pdf
2019-04-02T14:50:58 < Thorn> >USB4
2019-04-02T14:51:03 < Laurenceb> interdasting
2019-04-02T14:51:07 < Laurenceb> its just usbc tbh
2019-04-02T14:51:12 < Laurenceb> but saneified
2019-04-02T14:51:17 < zyp> heh
2019-04-02T14:51:34 < zyp> hmm, I think I've missed that 3.2 was a thing
2019-04-02T14:51:54 < Laurenceb> oh wait
2019-04-02T14:52:01 < Laurenceb> they have redesigned the protocol
2019-04-02T14:52:05 < Laurenceb> whyyyy
2019-04-02T14:52:32 < Laurenceb> my thinkpad has usb 3.2
2019-04-02T14:52:46 < zyp> what's the difference between 3.1 and 3.2?
2019-04-02T14:52:53 < Thorn> I don't think I've ever *used* usb3 let alone designed for it
2019-04-02T14:53:20 < Laurenceb> zyp: parellel data modes aiui
2019-04-02T14:53:23 < Thorn> oh wait my new keyboard has a usb3 port for charging
2019-04-02T14:53:44 < zyp> 3.0 has been fairly common for years
2019-04-02T14:54:04 < Laurenceb> zyp: 2×2 20Gbps
2019-04-02T14:54:42 < zyp> heh
2019-04-02T14:55:19 < Laurenceb> lol thinkpad doesnt have that
2019-04-02T14:55:26 < Laurenceb> maybe they are lying about 3.2
2019-04-02T14:55:34 < zyp> not necessarily
2019-04-02T14:56:15 < zyp> I guess that just like usb 2.0 devices doesn't imply HS support, 3.2 devices might not support all speed modes
2019-04-02T14:56:15 < Laurenceb> I got the usb c port running my sensors anyway - using a samsung galaxy cable
2019-04-02T14:56:52 < Laurenceb> it should be able to source 3A @ 5V now
2019-04-02T14:57:20 < zyp> that's a plain usb-c capability
2019-04-02T14:57:47 < Laurenceb> not if its been limited to 900mA aiui
2019-04-02T14:58:45 < zyp> I mean, being able to negotiate up to 3A@5V is a usb-c capability, that doesn't rely on other shit like BC or PD
2019-04-02T14:58:55 < day> zyp: im mostly curious why the limit exists at all
2019-04-02T14:59:26 < zyp> no idea
2019-04-02T14:59:43 < zyp> maybe that's where the motor rpm tops out?
2019-04-02T15:05:47 < day> i thought of that as well but then again the acceleration is rather bad as well. 9.6s 0-100
2019-04-02T15:06:30 < day> it's fine for driving, i just find the numbers dont "add up"
2019-04-02T15:06:49 < Laurenceb> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8770981/isis-bride-shamima-begum-brexit-boring-tv-refugee-camp-syria/
2019-04-02T15:08:59 < kakimir> isis wifes reality tv show
2019-04-02T15:11:41 < Laurenceb> >muh babby died cuz of ebil brits
2019-04-02T15:11:56 < Laurenceb> >babby actually died cuz she was too busy watching cartoon network to feed it
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2019-04-02T15:24:11 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY5-WUmK2iY encore
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2019-04-02T15:36:37 < Rickta59> ls
2019-04-02T15:36:40 < Rickta59> doh
2019-04-02T15:39:38 < Laurenceb> did you know that its autism acceptance day?
2019-04-02T15:48:13 < mawk> what kind of news is that Laurenceb 
2019-04-02T15:48:17 < mawk> what is that "sun" shit
2019-04-02T15:48:26 < mawk> we don't even have newspaper as bad as this here
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2019-04-02T15:58:31 < Cracki> "the sun" is obviously YELLOW press
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2019-04-02T16:34:32 < Laurenceb> mawk: lolling hard
2019-04-02T16:34:44 < Laurenceb> >typical britbong ""news""paper
2019-04-02T16:35:10 < Laurenceb> brits invented shitposting in paper format
2019-04-02T16:38:39 < kakimir> and they consume it - with pleasure
2019-04-02T16:39:15 < kakimir> fuck me
2019-04-02T16:39:31 < kakimir> I have been fucking with these QFN packages reflowing the whole day
2019-04-02T16:40:25 < kakimir> board starts to turn brown
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2019-04-02T16:59:57 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2019-04-02T16:59:58 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/LunarArchivist/status/1112510791511670784
2019-04-02T17:00:36 < Laurenceb> oh lol its fake
2019-04-02T17:05:35 < kakimir> exceeded reflow profile by half an hour
2019-04-02T17:05:38 < kakimir> no biggie
2019-04-02T17:06:45 < Laurenceb> wut https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOlmo1gX5Wc
2019-04-02T17:07:24 < Laurenceb> she is v unfunny
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2019-04-02T17:26:47 < zyp> heh, go farnell
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2019-04-02T17:28:57 < zyp> ordered some nrf boards last night, the usb dongle has unpopulated pads for a debugger connector
2019-04-02T17:29:07 < zyp> so I threw in a FTSH-105 with my order
2019-04-02T17:29:28 < zyp> now apparently they're sending me one box with the two nrf kits, and one box with a single FTSH-105
2019-04-02T17:31:49 < mawk> you took the nrf52 usb dongle so ?
2019-04-02T17:31:56 < mawk> they advertise it as non-debuggable
2019-04-02T17:32:21 < zyp> no, they don't
2019-04-02T17:34:04 < zyp> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2624112.pdf <- according to 6.7 it's debuggable
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2019-04-02T17:34:43 < mawk> « please do note that there is no debug support on the Dongle, only support for programming the device and communicating through USB. »
2019-04-02T17:34:52 < mawk> on the product page on nordic site
2019-04-02T17:35:12 < zyp> oh, I assume that means there's no onboard debugger adapter
2019-04-02T17:35:15 < mawk> right
2019-04-02T17:35:24 < zyp> that's ok, I don't want that anyway
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2019-04-02T17:52:08 < kakimir> night orders
2019-04-02T17:52:50 < kakimir> compile that list not looking straight anymore
2019-04-02T17:53:49 < kakimir> type in credit card number fall to sleep from exhaustion
2019-04-02T17:55:42 < mawk> you should add some alcohol to the mix kakimir 
2019-04-02T17:55:58 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-02T17:56:01 < kakimir> protips
2019-04-02T17:56:07 < kakimir> appreciated
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2019-04-02T20:10:25 < englishman> zyp: 3.0 got renamed. that's literally it
2019-04-02T20:11:12 < englishman> also stusb4500 is over a year old and still has no register documentation
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2019-04-02T20:33:08 < zyp> fun
2019-04-02T20:51:56 < kakimir> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/SceUthnl/VID-20190402-WA0000.mp4 
2019-04-02T20:52:23 < kakimir> nsfw maybe
2019-04-02T21:02:35 < Steffanx> more like: fucking boring
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2019-04-02T21:03:18 < aandrew> kakimir: hahahahahha
2019-04-02T21:05:23 < BrainDamage> is this you?
2019-04-02T21:06:04 < Steffanx> Heineken is like piss you know..?
2019-04-02T21:06:27 < kakimir> drinkable
2019-04-02T21:06:38 < kakimir> not like anything special
2019-04-02T21:06:50 < aandrew> yeah I can't drink heineken
2019-04-02T21:06:53 < aandrew> and I'm ok with lite beer
2019-04-02T21:07:00 < BrainDamage> commercial pils are horrible
2019-04-02T21:07:34 < kakimir> I only drink pils made by monks that live on a mountain
2019-04-02T21:10:36 < kakimir> tastes heavenly and you wonder.. does this even have any alcohol
2019-04-02T21:11:31 < kakimir> *wham* you are drunk already.. it has 12% alcohol
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2019-04-02T22:08:22 < zyp> oh, now I see why farnell split my order
2019-04-02T22:08:44 < zyp> the header comes from .be warehouse, nrf boards from .uk warehouse
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2019-04-02T22:11:48 < Steffanx> i:)
2019-04-02T22:12:05 < zyp> still weird
2019-04-02T22:13:29 < Steffanx> At least its not farnell.
2019-04-02T22:13:33 < Steffanx> i mean arrow, lol
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2019-04-02T22:14:12 < zyp> hehe
2019-04-02T22:15:08 < zyp> I expect both to arrive tomorrow anyway, so it's not a big deal, just a bit confusing that it got split when everything was supposed to be in stock
2019-04-02T22:17:11 < kakimir> I ate like a pig
2019-04-02T22:17:26 < Steffanx> Didnt the website tell you where the stock was?
2019-04-02T22:17:59 < kakimir> how convinient for distributor.. just ship from where ever
2019-04-02T22:18:19 < zyp> Steffanx, yeah, it said in stock in UK
2019-04-02T22:19:04 < zyp> https://no.farnell.com/samtec/ftsh-105-01-l-dv-k-p/connector-header-10pos-2row-1/dp/2856437
2019-04-02T22:20:51 < Steffanx> https://nl.farnell.com/samtec/ftsh-105-01-l-dv-k-p/connector-header-10pos-2row-1/dp/2856437 :P
2019-04-02T22:21:09 < bitmask> herro
2019-04-02T22:24:01 < zyp> Steffanx, dutch is so cute
2019-04-02T22:27:22 < Steffanx> idk. Is it?
2019-04-02T22:27:32 < zyp> yes
2019-04-02T22:27:46 < BrainDamage> he's hitting on you, nod and smile
2019-04-02T22:28:34 < mawk> lol
2019-04-02T22:28:50 < mawk> I ordered a couple of them dongles then zyp 
2019-04-02T22:28:55 < mawk> since I know it's debuggable now
2019-04-02T22:29:01 < zyp> cool
2019-04-02T22:29:03 < mawk> with a 5×2 1.27mm header
2019-04-02T22:29:05 < mawk> for the debug
2019-04-02T22:29:27 < zyp> enjoy getting your shipment split too then :)
2019-04-02T22:29:31 < mawk> it'll be prettier than the breakout board I made for the nrf52840, but it has less gpio ports than my thing
2019-04-02T22:29:35 < mawk> lol
2019-04-02T22:29:45 < mawk> I got it from RS, farnell price was 2 times the RS price
2019-04-02T22:29:46 < Steffanx> just order from arrow and you'll get the 2 items in 3 packages.
2019-04-02T22:29:51 < mawk> lol
2019-04-02T22:30:08 < zyp> oh, I didn't think to check RS
2019-04-02T22:30:33 < mawk> there's the list of suppliers & price here: https://www.nordicsemi.com/About-us/BuyOnline?search_token=nRF52840DONGLE&series_token=nRF52840
2019-04-02T22:30:46 < mawk> cheapest is $9.43
2019-04-02T22:31:07 < mawk> RS wanted a company number, good thing I have one for my programmation consulting
2019-04-02T22:31:19 < zyp> uh, it wasn't $17.79 for me
2019-04-02T22:31:39 < mawk> more ?
2019-04-02T22:31:52 < zyp> $10.8-ish
2019-04-02T22:31:56 < mawk> ah, good
2019-04-02T22:32:50 < zyp> mawk, so what are you using it for?
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2019-04-02T22:35:01 < mawk> I'm just sampling 802.15.4 solutions
2019-04-02T22:35:13 < zyp> anything particular in mind?
2019-04-02T22:35:23 < mawk> because I find that protocol cool so I'm contributing things for it
2019-04-02T22:35:39 < mawk> maybe using the nrf as a wireless coprocessor for the OS I'm contributing to
2019-04-02T22:36:10 < mawk> but as a concrete project I don't know, I don't know enough things
2019-04-02T22:36:24 < mawk> I started making a 802.15.4 powermeter, maybe I can use the nrf for it
2019-04-02T22:37:06 < Steffanx> Lora.
2019-04-02T22:37:26 < mawk> what is the bitrate of lora again ?
2019-04-02T22:37:46 < mawk> 802.15.4 does 250Kbps, and 650Kbps in non-standard mode with some popular transceivers
2019-04-02T22:39:01 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTBLr1j3zSo Vice report of the day
2019-04-02T22:40:49 < qyx> Steffanx: it is 2.4 already
2019-04-02T22:41:16 < qyx> no trolling allowed anymore
2019-04-02T22:42:00 < Steffanx> isnt there some 2.4GHz lora stuff?
2019-04-02T22:42:50 < zyp> the stuff I did some consulting on the other day apparently could do anything; 802.15.4/BLE, lora, nb-iot
2019-04-02T22:43:26 < Steffanx> SX1280 ?
2019-04-02T22:43:38 < Steffanx> hm nb-iot. is that a thing yet?
2019-04-02T22:43:40 < mawk> never heard of nb-iot
2019-04-02T22:44:00 < qyx> looks like a very wide freq span
2019-04-02T22:44:05 < mawk> doing both 802.15.4 stuff and lora needs two separate rf circuitry and antenna zyp right
2019-04-02T22:44:29 < zyp> board had three different radio chips
2019-04-02T22:44:45 < mawk> right
2019-04-02T22:44:49 < zyp> nrf52840 for 802.15.4/BLE, some other nrf for nb-iot, and some lora chip I don't remember what was
2019-04-02T22:44:50 < Steffanx> ooh
2019-04-02T22:44:59 < qyx> could you un-NDA the nb-iot one?
2019-04-02T22:45:00 < qyx> ah
2019-04-02T22:45:15 < zyp> I don't remember the particular number, just that it had a fancy footprint
2019-04-02T22:45:34 < Steffanx> so what more that the sx1280 do you need qyx?
2019-04-02T22:45:35 < qyx> was it a chip actually? or just a module
2019-04-02T22:45:39 < zyp> probably nrf9160
2019-04-02T22:46:04 < qyx> Steffanx: I need nothing at the moment
2019-04-02T22:46:08 < zyp> https://www.nordicsemi.com/?sc_itemid=%7B68437D00-1792-4D69-AB81-DB9248BB8715%7D
2019-04-02T22:46:10 < qyx> apart from rock wool slabs
2019-04-02T22:46:20 < zyp> nrf markets it as a SiP, not SoC, so I guess you can call it a module
2019-04-02T22:46:47 < qyx> oh lte-m
2019-04-02T22:47:00 < qyx> crotex-m33 O_o
2019-04-02T22:52:43 < Steffanx> Nah sorry, cant help you with that qyx. Waffles i can help with.
2019-04-02T22:53:47 < qyx> waffles I need no
2019-04-02T22:54:10 < qyx> much stomach pain
2019-04-02T22:54:32 < Steffanx> wut. if you cant handle waffles you have to see a doctor for sure
2019-04-02T22:55:06 < zyp> Steffanx, apparently there's both nb-iot and lte-m coverage in most of norway already
2019-04-02T22:55:13 < Steffanx> Unless you have this gluten thing
2019-04-02T22:55:51 < Steffanx> Yeah, same here but ... i still have to hear about something actually using it
2019-04-02T22:56:09 < qyx> lte-m here only afaik
2019-04-02T22:56:15 < zyp> yeah, idk what this stuff I consulted on is for
2019-04-02T22:56:45 < zyp> apparently it's something they're doing for a customer, but they're also designing it so they can keep it as a generic IoT platform for other projects afterward
2019-04-02T22:56:59 < Steffanx> https://www.gsma.com/iot/deployment-map/#CZ that map says nb-iot qyx
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2019-04-02T23:07:39 < qyx> Steffanx: interesting, SK here, but the map says the same
2019-04-02T23:09:14 < qyx> apparently t-mobile has some nb-iot coverage here
2019-04-02T23:09:40 < Steffanx> oh, sk.
2019-04-02T23:11:05 < Steffanx> Czechoslovakia isnt really a thing anymore i guess ;)
2019-04-02T23:22:05 < qyx> yeah nearly 30 years
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2019-04-03T01:44:07 < s34n> somebody pointed me to an H11AA1 optoisolator as a zero crossing detector
2019-04-03T01:44:30 < s34n> but all the drawings I've seen leave the base pin floating
2019-04-03T01:44:39 < s34n> isn't this a problem?
2019-04-03T01:47:15 < zyp> no?
2019-04-03T01:47:22 < aandrew> s34n: no
2019-04-03T01:47:25 < zyp> most optoisolators don't even have a base pin
2019-04-03T01:47:26 < aandrew> the base isn't needed
2019-04-03T01:47:48 < aandrew> because the transistor becomes forward-baised from the added light energy from the LED
2019-04-03T01:48:20 < zyp> the whole point of an optoisolator is that the gate is triggered by photons from the led, not electrons from base
2019-04-03T01:48:33 < zyp> base pin would only be useful to override it
2019-04-03T01:50:06 < s34n> thanks
2019-04-03T01:51:32 < s34n> The H11AA1 puts out 800mW. What is reasonable to feed into an F103 for zc detection?
2019-04-03T01:54:50 < s34n> http://reblag.dk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/The-Generic-STM32F103-Pinout-Diagram.pdf says 20mA per pin (8mA recommended)
2019-04-03T01:55:08 < s34n> But I don't know if that's in, out, or both
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2019-04-03T04:04:49 < kakimir> wow almost died.. we have these hatches for mail in doors
2019-04-03T04:05:44 < kakimir> it's totally silent and then mail is stuffed thru this hatch
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2019-04-03T04:28:31 < mawk> zyp: wouldn't you need a pulldown on the base ?
2019-04-03T04:28:39 < mawk> on optoisolators that have a base pin
2019-04-03T04:28:50 < mawk> otherwise I don't know, there could be some interference on it
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2019-04-03T10:33:12 < Thorn> what is this crap @ 433 MHz? https://imgur.com/mj6PJUe
2019-04-03T10:33:38 < Thorn> or is it my sdr which is crap
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2019-04-03T11:12:43 < Thorn> why are they transmitting 24/7
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2019-04-03T11:22:06 < Laurenceb_> wut
2019-04-03T11:22:10 < Laurenceb_> >all the time?
2019-04-03T11:22:20 < Laurenceb_> yeah I have a tx in my brain
2019-04-03T11:23:45 < Thorn> https://imgur.com/SriB1JE
2019-04-03T11:29:42 < jadew```> Thorn, could be cable TV
2019-04-03T11:29:51 < jadew```> jeez... that's a lot of `
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2019-04-03T11:31:20 < jadew> Thorn, https://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.html
2019-04-03T11:31:26 < jadew> channel 59
2019-04-03T11:32:12 < jadew> try moving your antenna, see if it makes a difference
2019-04-03T12:30:21 < con3> anyone here maybe worked on a multi-master spi ? Struggling to get it going and the way I'm doing it feels 'dirty'
2019-04-03T12:30:35 < con3> Might just be HAL or it might be me
2019-04-03T12:31:29 < con3> feels like I can't just switch between slave and master easily, nor can I transmit when in slave. I need to deinit from slave and reinit with master
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2019-04-03T12:36:51 < con3> Haohmaru: I realized that :p so I need to deinit the bus completely, reinitiate it with a new config as master and then transmit, rinse and repeat. 
2019-04-03T12:37:52 < con3> just felt wrong doing it like that
2019-04-03T12:38:24 < con3> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/training/technical/product_training/group0/3e/ee/cd/b7/84/4b/45/ee/STM32F7_Peripheral_SPI/files/STM32F7_Peripheral_SPI.pdf/_jcr_content/translations/en.STM32F7_Peripheral_SPI.pdf
2019-04-03T12:38:47 < con3> they provide this on slide 10 which shows the multi master config
2019-04-03T12:40:56 < con3> Haohmaru: I'm going to struggle with the code a bit more and then post it for feedback, it feels very dirty though, so any help after I post will be appreciated!
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2019-04-03T12:54:23 < Laurenceb_> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6878539/Tube-passenger-37-caught-performing-sex-act-hunted-police.html
2019-04-03T12:54:33 < Laurenceb_> typical britbong woman
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2019-04-03T13:03:54 < qyx> con3: I did, either I missed something very basic or you have to switch master/slave as you say
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2019-04-03T13:48:35 < Thorn> are SMA-J and K simply male & female versions with the same diameter?
2019-04-03T13:52:41 < Thorn> same diameter == compatible thread
2019-04-03T13:53:47 < jadew> I don't know what SMA-J is
2019-04-03T13:54:23 < jadew> K connectors are compatible with SMA (thread wise, but they're very high quality, you wouldn't mate them normally)
2019-04-03T13:55:03 < jadew> and the dielectric diameter is smaller than regular SMA (2.92 vs 3.5)
2019-04-03T13:55:16 < jadew> and it's air, rather than PTFE
2019-04-03T13:56:01 < jadew> where did you read about SMA-J?
2019-04-03T13:57:01 < Thorn> e.g. here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2W-SMA-DC-6GHz-Coaxial-Fixed-Attenuators-Frequency-6GHz-SMA-Fixed-Connectors/32956090844.html
2019-04-03T13:57:20 < Thorn> >Connector Type: SMA-J ~ SMA-K 
2019-04-03T13:57:29 < jadew> those are not K connectors
2019-04-03T13:57:33 < jadew> that's just simple SMA
2019-04-03T13:57:58 < jadew> SMA male and female
2019-04-03T13:58:17 < Thorn> you can also find "SMA-JK" on aliexpress
2019-04-03T13:58:19 < karlp> re nb-iot coverage, vodafone here reached out to us going, "hey, can you do a project with nb-iot? we'll promo you accounts?" 
2019-04-03T13:58:23 < Thorn> no idea where that comes from
2019-04-03T13:58:37 < karlp> we were just like, "umm, nope?"
2019-04-03T13:58:51 < jadew> Thorn, maybe it's how male and female SMA connectors are coded? I don't know
2019-04-03T13:58:53 < Thorn> maybe it's "SMA j/k lol"
2019-04-03T14:00:23 < karlp> seems they were just hoping there'd be a market for it if they deployed it.
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2019-04-03T14:22:36 < zyp> karlp, haha, cute
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2019-04-03T14:27:00 < karlp> we're more interested in getting better rates on real cellular, not just having to put in different hardware and _still_ be paying
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2019-04-03T14:30:36 < zyp> what are you using «real» cellular for?
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2019-04-03T14:35:16 < karlp> we're not normally, not ourselves at least.
2019-04-03T14:35:46 < karlp> but some people avoid talking to ttheir own internal networking department by just getting a 4g whatever cellular router and plugging our gear into that.
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2019-04-03T14:36:05 < zyp> ah, heh
2019-04-03T14:36:06 < karlp> that's known working readily available shit. 
2019-04-03T14:36:48 < karlp> I'd rather see that be made cheaper than having to say, "ok, you could pay _marginally less_ if you use this _different thing_ that's not really available anywhere and hasn't been tested much, and we'll have to change our sw to use less bandwidth too"
2019-04-03T14:37:03 < karlp> OR you could talk to your own fucking IT department.
2019-04-03T14:37:31 < karlp> cross department politicis in some of these businesses is fucking nuts.
2019-04-03T14:37:37 < karlp> they flat out won't talk to each other.
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2019-04-03T14:43:26 < englishman> signs of a dying business
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2019-04-03T14:58:26 < jadew> sounds like the IT department has trained them well
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2019-04-03T15:27:27 < englishman> https://www.livewiremarkets.com/wires/altium-limited-earnings-drivers-appealing-fundamentals
2019-04-03T15:27:30 < englishman> continuous stream of content and new technology improvements.
2019-04-03T15:27:41 < englishman> someone should email them to correct that article
2019-04-03T15:28:12 < englishman> ALTIUM DESIGNER is a web-based portal 
2019-04-03T15:28:34 < jadew> heh
2019-04-03T15:28:59 < jadew> they have 100% projected growth in 3 years
2019-04-03T15:29:08 < jadew> that's unlikely
2019-04-03T15:29:42 < karlp> englishman: perhaps, it's surprising how pervasive it is.
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2019-04-03T15:37:18 < Cracki> first step implies they copy existing designs... obviously chinese
2019-04-03T15:37:50 < jadew> pretty sure the chinese are using Altium
2019-04-03T15:37:59 < jadew> all of them
2019-04-03T15:39:41 < jadew> I hear kicad is the industry standard now
2019-04-03T15:40:17 < Cracki> perhaps in the automatic place and route... and instead do an api call to some indian who does it by hand
2019-04-03T15:40:55 < jadew> I'm obviously kidding, Haohmaru 
2019-04-03T15:41:14 < Cracki> reality imitates memes
2019-04-03T15:41:39 < jadew> api call to a human - that's what paging used to be
2019-04-03T15:42:03 < jadew> someone clicked a button and all the robots showed up to work
2019-04-03T15:42:34 < jadew> I'm sure that happens now too, except it's done via messaging
2019-04-03T15:43:26 < Cracki> apropos chinese, I can recommend the 2010 documentary "Empire of Dust"
2019-04-03T15:43:40 < jadew> will check it out
2019-04-03T15:43:47  * jadew loves documentaries
2019-04-03T15:43:51 < Cracki> source of a particular meme
2019-04-03T15:44:37 < jadew> not on netflix
2019-04-03T15:44:42 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a-QpyF7rNc
2019-04-03T15:44:56 < jadew> thanks
2019-04-03T15:45:30 < jadew> not enough pixels tho
2019-04-03T15:46:13 < Cracki> I was looking around, found no higher resolution, not even on file sharing
2019-04-03T15:46:25 < jadew> if I don't scale that video, on my old flip-phone from 20 years ago, it would still have a black margin
2019-04-03T15:47:01 < jadew> it's ok, I can just listen anyway
2019-04-03T15:48:16 < Cracki> that movie is all about the subtitles. you understand chinese or the occasional french?
2019-04-03T15:48:28 < jadew> that was the joke
2019-04-03T15:48:31 < Cracki> ;)
2019-04-03T15:48:45 < Cracki> I was surprised that they found a local who speaks chinese
2019-04-03T15:48:52 < jadew> eternal dragon, yes
2019-04-03T15:49:21 < jadew> it's a good language to speak
2019-04-03T15:49:44 < Cracki> he's instantly above all his countrymen because of that
2019-04-03T15:49:52 < jadew> yeah
2019-04-03T15:50:09 < jadew> most people who speak chinese end up having sweet jobs
2019-04-03T15:50:30 < jadew> (as long as they're not chinese themselves)
2019-04-03T15:50:42 < jadew> then the generalization goes the other way
2019-04-03T15:52:20 < Cracki> interfacing is a rare skill
2019-04-03T15:54:49 < jadew> I can understand most of the french
2019-04-03T15:56:13 < Cracki> im at ~19:00 and I can understand the chinaman's tired face
2019-04-03T15:56:23 < jadew> heh
2019-04-03T15:58:22 < Cracki> this is really nothing new to people with open eyes but I'll show this to everyone of these bleeding heart utopist moralists
2019-04-03T16:48:50 < karlp> woke man
2019-04-03T16:53:18 -!- enh [~enhering@2804:18:681e:3a50:45a9:6351:73e1:647a] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2019-04-03T17:13:07 < kakimir> then there is the learning chinese part
2019-04-03T17:23:07 < kakimir> if you are doing engineering it quickly becomes beneficial
2019-04-03T17:24:24 < jadew> I think just knowing chinese + your native language is a great opportunity by itself
2019-04-03T17:24:34 < jadew> I have a friend who works for huawei in here
2019-04-03T17:25:17 < jadew> lots of cash for a proper translation
2019-04-03T17:26:04 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2019-04-03T17:26:16 < jadew> she also worked in china, so she has quite a bit of experience with the language
2019-04-03T17:26:41 < jadew> probably just watching chinese movies won't take you far
2019-04-03T17:26:54 < kakimir> kung fu
2019-04-03T17:27:14 < jadew> yeah, was actually wondering what jackie chan movies I should see with my son
2019-04-03T17:27:27 < kakimir> jet li
2019-04-03T17:27:32 < jadew> too brutal
2019-04-03T17:27:48 < jadew> maybe next year
2019-04-03T17:27:48 < kakimir> when we were in china there was 3 types of tv programs
2019-04-03T17:28:25 < jadew> are you going to list them?
2019-04-03T17:29:28 < kakimir> kung fu that we called samppaa(= samurai), news about big busts in china and picked events from west, singing/talent shows
2019-04-03T17:29:49 < kakimir> *hand picked
2019-04-03T17:30:02 < kakimir> about 50channels of these
2019-04-03T17:30:11 < jadew> wish we had such great programming
2019-04-03T17:30:24 < jadew> all we have is garbage tv shows, 24/7
2019-04-03T17:31:10 < kakimir> hong kong tv was visible of course and it had more western style programming
2019-04-03T17:34:01 < Laurenceb> spotted the jewish shill
2019-04-03T17:34:20 < jadew> I wish youtube would have auto categorization of liked videos
2019-04-03T17:35:03 < jadew> you click on a tune you like and when it's done, it gets followed by some random technical video
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2019-04-03T17:56:38 < Laurenceb> kek they are trying to up t-series
2019-04-03T17:58:57 < zyp> yay, nrf stuff arrived
2019-04-03T17:59:26 < jadew> didn't you order that yesterday?
2019-04-03T17:59:39 < Laurenceb> wew liz cound be our new pm
2019-04-03T18:00:00 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRhlRM6rYck
2019-04-03T18:00:03 < Laurenceb> PM of autism
2019-04-03T18:00:04 < zyp> jadew, was shipped yesterday, ordered monday night
2019-04-03T18:00:56 < jadew> not sure why I assumed you bought it from china
2019-04-03T18:01:05 < zyp> haha, no
2019-04-03T18:01:06 < zyp> farnell
2019-04-03T18:01:20 < jadew> ah, right, they have great shipping speed
2019-04-03T18:03:12 < zyp> wonder how long it's gonna take me to bring up my usb stack on this
2019-04-03T18:03:20 < zyp> I don't have any nrf support in my lib at the moment
2019-04-03T18:14:01 < kakimir> oh wow
2019-04-03T18:14:24 < kakimir> I think magnets have effects to MLCC caps
2019-04-03T18:14:46 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/ycsqsBw
2019-04-03T18:14:52 < Laurenceb> not sure is shop
2019-04-03T18:14:53 < kakimir> added magnet connector to my pcb and tester says step response if off
2019-04-03T18:14:55 < Laurenceb> *if
2019-04-03T18:15:08 < kakimir> distance to mlcc is 1,6mm
2019-04-03T18:16:32 < kakimir> oh wow
2019-04-03T18:16:40 < kakimir> mlccs can be used as magnetic sensors
2019-04-03T18:17:03 < Laurenceb> wtf
2019-04-03T18:17:09 < Laurenceb> gunna need some proofs
2019-04-03T18:18:11 < kakimir> google
2019-04-03T18:24:06 < kakimir> did you google te papper
2019-04-03T18:24:28 < kakimir> da paper
2019-04-03T18:26:27 < bitmask> hmm, 42 tracking numbers to wait for, damn you aliexpress anniversary sale!
2019-04-03T18:27:53 < Cracki> Laurenceb, "darwin's finches meme"
2019-04-03T18:29:37 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/0sQaPGc
2019-04-03T18:30:52 < Thorn> moneyed westerners
2019-04-03T18:31:28 < Laurenceb> kek https://imgur.com/Jktf71A
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2019-04-03T18:33:03 < Laurenceb> when u see the dads face https://imgur.com/L5VNMbN
2019-04-03T18:33:06 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2600:1001:b11c:3c22:2187:7d06:4fb1:6899] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-03T18:33:38 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sbrkEXKd0YsTjszKCqmCHWpLVwg7lcvi/view?usp=drivesdk
2019-04-03T18:35:02 < bitmask> internet is being changed so I'm using mobile hotspot, is wifi or bluetooth better?
2019-04-03T18:35:13 < kakimir> wifi
2019-04-03T18:35:15 < bitmask> k
2019-04-03T18:35:22 < kakimir> no question about it
2019-04-03T18:35:29 < bitmask> i thought so just wanted to check
2019-04-03T18:35:52 < bitmask> no idea what bluetooth data rates are
2019-04-03T18:35:56 < kakimir> shitti
2019-04-03T18:35:59 < bitmask> heh
2019-04-03T18:36:40 < kakimir> also range
2019-04-03T18:36:58 < kakimir> I used bluetooth tethering back in 2009 or so
2019-04-03T18:38:05 < kakimir> my phone didn't have wifi back then
2019-04-03T18:39:27 < kakimir> I had lidphone
2019-04-03T18:40:05 < bitmask> heh
2019-04-03T18:40:33 < bitmask> hmm, how should I sort assortments
2019-04-03T18:41:02 < bitmask> I guess as any other component but put the range of values
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2019-04-03T18:46:38 < zyp> okay, got empty main() running on nrf, that's a starting point :p
2019-04-03T18:47:11 < zyp> had to fight a bit with flash protection, apparently usb dongle ships with a bootloader that's protected against accidental erase or something
2019-04-03T18:57:02 < aandrew> yep
2019-04-03T18:57:16 < aandrew> is this the nrf52840 dongle?
2019-04-03T19:01:51 < zyp> yes
2019-04-03T19:03:39 < aandrew> you have to be careful; I've managed to brick a few where the internal regulators turn off and you have to "boot" them with an external supply so you can restore the fuses
2019-04-03T19:03:47 < aandrew> I wasnt' even writing to the fuses on one of them
2019-04-03T19:03:53 < zyp> oh, haha
2019-04-03T19:04:27 < zyp> how did you manage that?
2019-04-03T19:04:41 < zyp> I'm not planning to touch anything regulator related before I have to
2019-04-03T19:05:22 < aandrew> I'm not sure 
2019-04-03T19:05:25 < aandrew> I was working on the radio side
2019-04-03T19:05:33 < aandrew> and suddenly the jlink couldn't see it
2019-04-03T19:12:16 < qyx> did you accidentally it?
2019-04-03T19:28:25 < mawk> what did you solder on the debug pads exactly zyp ?
2019-04-03T19:28:35 < mawk> I searched your ref on rs but found nothing
2019-04-03T19:28:57 < mawk> and which headers also, the 5x2 thing or the wiggly thing above ?
2019-04-03T19:29:56 < bitmask> wut wut, in the butt
2019-04-03T19:30:12 < mawk> which butt
2019-04-03T19:30:32 < zyp> mawk, https://no.farnell.com/samtec/ftsh-105-01-l-dv-k-p/connector-header-10pos-2row-1/dp/2856437
2019-04-03T19:32:43 < bitmask> muh butt
2019-04-03T19:32:52 < bitmask> anyone use f030?
2019-04-03T19:34:06 < qyx> I did once
2019-04-03T19:34:50 < bitmask> is it good for simple stuff? like instead of using an 8 bit micro use that
2019-04-03T19:35:04 < qyx> sure
2019-04-03T19:35:14 < bitmask> I havent looked at a datasheet but I liked that it came in TSSOP
2019-04-03T19:35:24 < bitmask> so I ordered 20 for $7
2019-04-03T19:35:36 < qyx> quite cheap, where from?
2019-04-03T19:35:40 < bitmask> ali
2019-04-03T19:35:43 < qyx> O-o
2019-04-03T19:37:25 < mawk> thanks zyp 
2019-04-03T19:38:17 < mawk> ok so you have 1.27mm pitch cable you can connect to that
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2019-04-03T19:46:49 < zyp> mawk, yes
2019-04-03T19:47:18 < mawk> right
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2019-04-03T19:49:54 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/SdwDM.jpg
2019-04-03T19:53:09 < jpa-> what usb hub is that?
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2019-04-03T19:54:26 < jadew> I was about to ask the same thing
2019-04-03T19:55:53 < zyp> some elecom thing I picked up in japan once, it's really convenient for desktop testing
2019-04-03T19:56:58 < jpa-> https://www.amazon.com/Elecom-USB-ports-U2H-TZS720SBK-Black/dp/B003YDYWM2  looks nice
2019-04-03T19:57:29 < jadew> yup
2019-04-03T19:57:35 < jadew> I'm putting it on my wish list
2019-04-03T19:57:54 < jpa-> who buys you your wishes?
2019-04-03T19:58:39 < jadew> my wife
2019-04-03T19:58:55 < jadew> just last month she got me an arbor press
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2019-04-03T20:03:34 < ds2> what do you use the press for?
2019-04-03T20:03:47 < jadew> not sure yet
2019-04-03T20:04:26 < ds2> what's the tonage?
2019-04-03T20:05:14 < jadew> 1
2019-04-03T20:05:37 < jadew> afk, dinner time
2019-04-03T20:05:54 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c700:d26:7087:e98:82fa:2c64] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2019-04-03T20:16:32 < Thorn> yeah with a wife like that you don't want to miss dinner
2019-04-03T20:22:32 < mawk> I had a hub like that but it was underpowered
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2019-04-03T20:33:41 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHgc8Q6qTjc pewdiepie music video
2019-04-03T20:33:49 < jadew> haha Thorn
2019-04-03T20:34:42 -!- gsi__ is now known as gsi_
2019-04-03T20:37:23 < zyp> fun, ran into a usb errata
2019-04-03T20:38:11 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4OhbzSFpnk
2019-04-03T20:38:49 < zyp> apparently there's a problem enabling usb after a soft reset
2019-04-03T20:39:25 < zyp> and a workaround that touches some cpu core registers
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2019-04-03T20:41:30 < zyp> disregard, not core
2019-04-03T20:45:48 < zyp> looks like some undocumented vendor regs
2019-04-03T20:51:16 < PaulFertser> Fancy http://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.nordic.infocenter.nrf52840.Rev1.errata%2Fdita%2Ferrata%2FnRF52840%2FRev1%2Flatest%2Fanomaly_840_187.html&cp=2_0_1_0_1_20
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2019-04-03T20:58:06 < qyx> fuk dual tqfp marks
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2019-04-03T21:19:53 < karlp> I've got one of those "elecom" hubs too, and it's utter trash
2019-04-03T21:20:54 < karlp> there mgiht be nicer internal designs, but its a super common ali hub, I've had watt too many hub disconnects or speed fails, doesnt even get to live on my desk anymore
2019-04-03T21:40:34 < Laurenceb> >The House of Commons printer has broken down so they can't print the Cooper Bill. So now MPs are not sure what they are now debating.
2019-04-03T21:40:40 < Laurenceb> my sides
2019-04-03T21:41:41 < mawk> the workaround is 100% software zyp ?
2019-04-03T21:45:39 < PaulFertser> mawk: see my link, yes.
2019-04-03T21:45:47 < mawk> ah right
2019-04-03T21:46:03 < mawk> you're the same color as the *buffextras stuff from ZNC so I mistaken you for that
2019-04-03T21:58:21 < PaulFertser> People of colour
2019-04-03T21:59:25 < kakimir> hello
2019-04-03T21:59:41 < PaulFertser> What colour are you kakimir ?
2019-04-03T21:59:52 < kakimir> finnish
2019-04-03T22:11:24 -!- jly [uid355225@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kbzujsthjeioutdq] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-03T22:13:11 < jly> Laurenceb: https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/tp-composite-cor-bin.jpg
2019-04-03T22:13:25 < Laurenceb> keeeek
2019-04-03T22:13:36 < Laurenceb> PaulFertser: finngolian
2019-04-03T22:14:52 < Laurenceb> https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/833580453437265069/46A731C376AAC994E754E465AAC18E79449441CA/
2019-04-03T22:16:32 < kakimir> muh heritage!
2019-04-03T22:17:34 < mawk> so this would fit on the nrf52840 dongle: https://fr.rs-online.com/web/p/fiches-femelles-pour-ci/7668959/
2019-04-03T22:20:41 < qyx> no sdadc in libopencm3 :(
2019-04-03T22:21:07 < qyx> I did some ADc oversampling regs recently
2019-04-03T22:21:13 < qyx> and opamps for F3 too
2019-04-03T22:21:19 < qyx> I should tidy them up and make a PR
2019-04-03T22:21:54 < Laurenceb> tbh I dont really see the use of the sdadc
2019-04-03T22:22:16 < Laurenceb> the 12bit adc with full sample rate seems to outperform it for me
2019-04-03T22:22:28 < Laurenceb> guess sdadc would be lower power in some applications
2019-04-03T22:22:54 < qyx> idk, I connected 10 NTC thermistors to it
2019-04-03T22:23:13 < qyx> in other words, I was choosing between F303 and F373
2019-04-03T22:23:18 < Steffanx> damn, those things look awful, mawk
2019-04-03T22:23:22 < mawk> lol
2019-04-03T22:23:25 < mawk> yeah it looks cut by hand
2019-04-03T22:23:31 < Steffanx> Wouldnt you want male?
2019-04-03T22:23:49 < mawk> in female I can stick rigid copper cables
2019-04-03T22:23:51 < mawk> I hope
2019-04-03T22:23:56 < mawk> so it's easier to work with
2019-04-03T22:24:05 < mawk> unless I can get a 1.27mm 5×2 cable
2019-04-03T22:24:13 < mawk> they I'd get male
2019-04-03T22:24:14 < qyx> wat
2019-04-03T22:24:16 < mawk> then
2019-04-03T22:24:27 < qyx> farnell has 0.635mm ribbon cable
2019-04-03T22:24:37 < qyx> tme has cheap 5x2 1.27mm IDC headers
2019-04-03T22:24:58 < qyx> you can make bambillions of cables
2019-04-03T22:24:58 < mawk> yeah I'm trying to find them
2019-04-03T22:25:08 < mawk> number of results is decreasing with each filter I add
2019-04-03T22:25:25 < qyx> I'll try to be helpful
2019-04-03T22:25:26 < Steffanx> thats the point of a filter uh? :P
2019-04-03T22:25:27 < qyx> mmt
2019-04-03T22:25:47 < Steffanx> Would be fun to get more resulst the more filters you add
2019-04-03T22:26:10 < qyx> https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/ds1017-01-10na8/konektory-idc/connfly/
2019-04-03T22:26:24 < Steffanx> isnt tme like farnell... companies only?
2019-04-03T22:26:58 < mawk> I have a company number
2019-04-03T22:27:04 < mawk> for programmation consulting
2019-04-03T22:27:06 < qyx> no afaik
2019-04-03T22:27:08 < Steffanx> ah
2019-04-03T22:27:22 < qyx> I did some personal orders
2019-04-03T22:27:27 < qyx> then registered with company id
2019-04-03T22:27:55 < mawk> so I have to crimp a ribbon cable into that
2019-04-03T22:28:04 < mawk> with a special plier ?
2019-04-03T22:28:21 < qyx> https://sk.farnell.com/3m/3749-20/ribbon-cable-20core-30awg-per/dp/1207757
2019-04-03T22:28:44 < qyx> this is 20core, I usually order this one and split it into two
2019-04-03T22:28:49 < qyx> no, a hammer is enough
2019-04-03T22:29:09 < qyx> or a vice
2019-04-03T22:29:41 < qyx> or a common pliers
2019-04-03T22:31:36 < mawk> I see
2019-04-03T22:31:37 < mawk> thanks
2019-04-03T22:31:43 < Cracki> what connector?
2019-04-03T22:31:50 < Cracki> 2 row, but 0.1" or 0.05" grid?
2019-04-03T22:31:59 < mawk> 2 row, 5 per row, 1.27mm step
2019-04-03T22:32:14 < Cracki> for 0.1" double row you want 1.27mm pitch ribbon, for 0.05" you need 0.6..mm pitch
2019-04-03T22:32:22 < mawk> I don't know about your "
2019-04-03T22:32:32 < mawk> 0.05" google says
2019-04-03T22:32:59 < Cracki> sry, I'm seeing the backlog
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2019-04-03T22:47:49 < jly> egg hole
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2019-04-03T23:01:30 < karlp> c thers' aa ribbon cable with 2x5x1.27mm female on it on digikey cheap,
2019-04-03T23:01:33 < karlp> see cortex debug in zypsnips
2019-04-03T23:14:03 < mawk> a "tagconnect" cable would be much nicer
2019-04-03T23:14:07 < mawk> no solder required it seems
2019-04-03T23:14:10 < mawk> but it's so expensive
2019-04-03T23:17:21 < Steffanx> there also complaints about that in zypsnips :P
2019-04-03T23:17:38 < bitmask> hello Steffanx ;)
2019-04-03T23:17:43 < qyx> no tagconnect
2019-04-03T23:19:32 < jly> I need to put a switcher in
2019-04-03T23:19:41 < jly> 24v to 3.3v
2019-04-03T23:20:00 < Steffanx> hi mr bitmask
2019-04-03T23:20:09 < bitmask> how are you doing on this glorious day
2019-04-03T23:20:19 < Steffanx> im doing ok. There mr bitmask?
2019-04-03T23:21:08 < bitmask> pretty pretty pretty pretty good
2019-04-03T23:21:44 < bitmask> (I doubt you foreigner would get that reference)
2019-04-03T23:22:26 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/O_05qJTeNNI
2019-04-03T23:25:09 < bitmask> I think dusting just makes the room dustier
2019-04-03T23:25:24 < bitmask> I'm never cleaning again
2019-04-03T23:28:54 < jly> Would you like a frest towel?
2019-04-03T23:29:03 < jly> maybe you could roll that up and smoke it
2019-04-03T23:30:13 < bitmask> drugs are bad
2019-04-03T23:30:33 < bitmask> especially towels
2019-04-03T23:31:08 < bitmask> I need a box
2019-04-03T23:31:16 < jly> https://youtu.be/KZAbSV1NCOc?t=62
2019-04-03T23:31:18 < bitmask> I have too much shit
2019-04-03T23:31:22 < jly> ho
2019-04-03T23:31:25 < jly> oh
2019-04-03T23:31:26 < jly> box
2019-04-03T23:31:27 < jly> okay
2019-04-03T23:31:39 < jly> i can help you with that
2019-04-03T23:31:53 < bitmask> you got the good shit?
2019-04-03T23:31:57 < jly> I'm waiting to hear from china
2019-04-03T23:32:02 < bitmask> none of that cardboard stuff
2019-04-03T23:34:01 < jly> oh
2019-04-03T23:34:50 < jly> https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/dw/image/v2/BBRV_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-srg-internal-master-catalog/default/dwbce879cd/images/321718/SCA_321718_hi-res.jpg
2019-04-03T23:34:59 < bitmask> I'm just joking, I'm actually looking for a cardboard box, I'm gonna check the attic, brb
2019-04-03T23:35:35 < jly> never heard of anyone joking around when steffan is awake
2019-04-03T23:35:57 < bitmask> he has a crush on me so I get away with it
2019-04-03T23:36:11 < jly> probably
2019-04-03T23:37:26 < bitmask> why are LT3045 so expensive, I want to make a psu wtih like 8 of em
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2019-04-03T23:41:12 < jly> the first reason LT*
2019-04-03T23:42:23 < jly> also
2019-04-03T23:42:24 < jly> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/akm-semiconductor-inc/AK5397EQ/974-1110-ND/5514231
2019-04-03T23:42:32 < jly> Isn't that a little honey?
2019-04-03T23:44:06 < Steffanx> Are you gay too bitmask ?
2019-04-03T23:46:25 < jly> the dog is
2019-04-03T23:50:29 < qyx> mhm I cannot get the SDADC to work
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2019-04-03T23:50:58 < qyx> if I am reading the RM correctly, keeping all regs at default values should be enough
2019-04-03T23:51:05 < qyx> and just setting ADON=1
2019-04-03T23:51:28 < qyx> and RSWSTART=1 starts the conversion
2019-04-03T23:51:39 < qyx> using default settings with a default channel
2019-04-03T23:51:53 < qyx> but it is stuck in a conversion request
2019-04-03T23:51:57 < qyx> it never finishes
2019-04-03T23:53:13 < Cracki> does it have a clock? :>
2019-04-03T23:53:19 < kakimir> is it infineon?
2019-04-03T23:53:37 < qyx> I enabled clock in RCC
2019-04-03T23:53:54 < Cracki> found any examples you can compare against?
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2019-04-03T23:53:59 < qyx> No.
2019-04-03T23:54:06 < qyx> it seems nobody uses it
2019-04-03T23:54:28 < Cracki> this implies there must be examples https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/d9/90/d7/70/7c/ff/45/6d/DM00070480.pdf/files/DM00070480.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00070480.pdf
2019-04-03T23:54:40 < Cracki> old stuff tho, I see stdperiph
2019-04-03T23:54:58 < Cracki> and it's probably not for your controller but eh
2019-04-03T23:55:43 < qyx> it is, but stdperiph
2019-04-03T23:55:56 < qyx> I only have register defs here
2019-04-03T23:56:01 < qyx> and libopencm3
2019-04-03T23:56:02 < Cracki> use any (cube-)generated code or all written yourself?
2019-04-03T23:56:06 < Cracki> ic ic
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2019-04-03T23:56:27 < Cracki> perhaps start checking if register defs and opencm3 are doing the right thing
2019-04-03T23:57:02 < qyx> https://privatebin.net/?426b2b1123ff5039#Kl8RF5LKuC3e1KM60Bqn81RJb3khiWoonR8LSNYxbk0=
2019-04-03T23:57:05 < qyx> I only have this
2019-04-03T23:57:28 < Cracki> is the clock in the right range?
2019-04-03T23:57:35 < qyx> it is stuck on line 17
2019-04-03T23:57:42 < qyx> yes
2019-04-03T23:58:13 < Cracki> check disassembly of adc_sample?
2019-04-03T23:58:24 < qyx> why?
2019-04-03T23:58:32 < Cracki> you say register definitions...
2019-04-03T23:58:55 < qyx> checked 5 times
2019-04-03T23:58:58 < qyx> also SDADC_ISR=00004000
2019-04-03T23:58:58 < Cracki> I keep saying this, if registers aren't volatile, the compiler can optimize a read from ram away and only use register value
2019-04-03T23:59:16 < Cracki> you see that in a debugger too?
2019-04-03T23:59:45 < qyx> fuk registers, all register work using the same semantics
2019-04-03T23:59:53 < qyx> why should not this one?
--- Day changed Thu Apr 04 2019
2019-04-04T00:00:10 < Cracki> the point of debugging is to question *yourself*
2019-04-04T00:00:17 < Cracki> something is different from your assumptions
2019-04-04T00:00:27 < qyx> also enabling the sdadc works checking the same register, just a different flag
2019-04-04T00:00:35 < qyx> there is something missing
2019-04-04T00:00:44 < qyx> which prevents the sdadc from doing the conversion
2019-04-04T00:00:51 < qyx> because the request is set
2019-04-04T00:00:57 < qyx> but end-of-conversion not
2019-04-04T00:01:14 < Cracki> do you need to clear any flags you havent?
2019-04-04T00:01:38 < qyx> mhm, it is nt in the init mode
2019-04-04T00:01:38 < Cracki> check that you really just need to init so little
2019-04-04T00:02:06 < bitmask> Steffanx only for you
2019-04-04T00:02:07 < qyx> being in the wrong mode wold cause the conversion request not to be set
2019-04-04T00:02:28 < qyx> I think it should work by keeping default, but I may be wrong
2019-04-04T00:02:33 < qyx> *defaults
2019-04-04T00:02:41 < qyx> let's check again
2019-04-04T00:03:09 < Cracki> and maybe scare up _any_ examples, even if you don't use stdperiph they are better than nothing
2019-04-04T00:03:37 < Cracki> is sdadc clock within 0.5-6 mhz?
2019-04-04T00:03:41 < qyx> yeah I  have been reading stdperiph lib
2019-04-04T00:03:49 < qyx> yes
2019-04-04T00:03:55 < Cracki> I assume I got the right rm in front of me, just googled for some F3 with sdadc
2019-04-04T00:04:08 < qyx> there is only one or two of them, so yes
2019-04-04T00:04:11 < qyx> F373
2019-04-04T00:04:56 < bitmask> anyone ever apply a vinyl cover to something? I'm not sure how it works on corners
2019-04-04T00:05:52 < Cracki> I'd make sure system clock is as expected, just for kicks
2019-04-04T00:06:19 < qyx> I tried HSI, now also HSE at 16M
2019-04-04T00:06:30 < qyx> initializes correctly, switches to HSE correctly
2019-04-04T00:06:35 < Cracki> or fuck around with clock divider to sdadc and hope that _is_ the error and the _only_ one
2019-04-04T00:07:11 < qyx> haha
2019-04-04T00:07:16 < qyx> I did this
2019-04-04T00:07:19 < Cracki> good
2019-04-04T00:08:06 < Cracki> from rm I would infer that ADON is different from SDADC enable
2019-04-04T00:08:19 < Cracki> in your snippet i see adon but no "enable" as such
2019-04-04T00:08:36 < Cracki> sdadc enable gates clock
2019-04-04T00:08:52 < qyx> mhm I don't see any other sdadc enable
2019-04-04T00:09:00 < Cracki> me neither, yet
2019-04-04T00:09:45 < Cracki> 13.5.1 talks about 100 us startup, are you outside of that?
2019-04-04T00:10:15 < Cracki> (I don't understand that to cause trouble but eh)
2019-04-04T00:10:22 < qyx> I am observing the bit
2019-04-04T00:10:27 < qyx> (status flag)
2019-04-04T00:10:40 < Cracki> ah, in line 9 I guess
2019-04-04T00:12:01 < Cracki> where do you configure input?
2019-04-04T00:12:11 < qyx> nowhere, it is input 0, differential
2019-04-04T00:12:18 < qyx> (reset value)
2019-04-04T00:12:22 < Cracki> ic
2019-04-04T00:12:35 < Cracki> can you consider the order of init statements correct?
2019-04-04T00:12:42 < qyx> all pins configured analog inputs
2019-04-04T00:13:00 < Cracki> meaning setting divider <> enabling clock
2019-04-04T00:13:18 < qyx> swapping doesnt help
2019-04-04T00:13:19 < Cracki> nvm, that's unlikely, you power up after those
2019-04-04T00:13:50 < qyx> disabling clock enable makes the registers inaccessible
2019-04-04T00:13:58 < qyx> so clock works probably
2019-04-04T00:14:14 < Cracki> you see any funny values in other registers of the peripheral?
2019-04-04T00:18:03 < Cracki> uh, are you sure the "polarity" of stabip is right? sheet implies you want to wait for it to be 0, so your while loop is bad
2019-04-04T00:18:08 < Cracki> the first one at l9
2019-04-04T00:19:23 < Cracki> in adc_sample I'd wait for RCIP to go low as well
2019-04-04T00:20:13 < Cracki> (in addition to reocf)
2019-04-04T00:20:24 < qyx> it dones't go low
2019-04-04T00:20:28 < qyx> ok, I corrected the whie
2019-04-04T00:20:30 < qyx> hile
2019-04-04T00:20:30 < Cracki> ROVRF might be interesting as well
2019-04-04T00:20:32 < qyx> no change :S
2019-04-04T00:21:17 < qyx> ROVRF is not set
2019-04-04T00:21:31 < qyx> meh, just wasting time
2019-04-04T00:21:44 < Cracki> mysterious :P
2019-04-04T00:23:30 < Cracki> steal from stm32 hal code?
2019-04-04T00:24:01 < qyx> setting JSWSTART instead of RSWSTART causes JCIP to be set instead of RCIP
2019-04-04T00:24:07 < qyx> otherwise everything is the same
2019-04-04T00:25:40 < Cracki> where does SDADC_ISR come from, how is it defined? same for SDADC1
2019-04-04T00:27:58 < Cracki> this uses the CR1 INIT bit, maybe you need that too https://github.com/danieleff/STM32GENERIC/blob/master/STM32/system/STM32F3/HAL_Src/stm32f3xx_hal_sdadc.c#L2375
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2019-04-04T00:28:41 < qyx> you need init mode to change configuration settings
2019-04-04T00:28:45 < qyx> I am not doing it
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2019-04-04T00:30:49 < Cracki> something to verify, or at least the register values are equal to the defaults you expect
2019-04-04T00:31:13 < qyx> yeah they are
2019-04-04T00:31:22 < qyx> hrm
2019-04-04T00:31:28 < Cracki> can this be a hardware-side problem? that thing needs certain voltages, maybe it doesn't like what it gets
2019-04-04T00:33:01 < qyx> idk, I'll continue tomorrow
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2019-04-04T00:33:18 < qyx> thank you for wasting time with me \o/
2019-04-04T00:33:34 < Cracki> :P I'm procrastinating
2019-04-04T00:33:40 < qyx> I see
2019-04-04T00:33:57 < Cracki> I haven't had to deal with sdadc but when I do, I'm sure this will give me some "experience"
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2019-04-04T01:08:10 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
2019-04-04T01:08:41 < kakimir> is it normal to have veneers for interrupts?
2019-04-04T01:11:10 < kakimir> time to learn linker scripts
2019-04-04T01:18:04 < zyp> okay, got my usb stack enumerating on nrf52840
2019-04-04T01:18:10 < Steffanx> What the hell is it kakimir ?
2019-04-04T01:18:48 < zyp> nrf usb periph is a bit silly, it's trying too hard to be smart and ending up complicated instead
2019-04-04T01:19:48 < zyp> but eh, it works :)
2019-04-04T01:20:26 < zyp> my usb stack is a bit silly too, after some redesign it'll be better
2019-04-04T01:21:15 < kakimir>     .globl PendSV_Veneer
2019-04-04T01:21:15 < kakimir> PendSV_Veneer:
2019-04-04T01:21:16 < kakimir>     LDR R0, =PendSV_Handler
2019-04-04T01:21:16 < kakimir>     MOV PC,R0
2019-04-04T01:23:03 < kakimir> thumb code
2019-04-04T01:23:21 < kakimir> for every interrupt there is a slot
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2019-04-04T01:25:03 < kakimir> Steffanx: talk to me
2019-04-04T01:26:18 < Cracki> kakimir, smells generated?
2019-04-04T01:26:24 < kakimir> it is
2019-04-04T01:26:39 < Cracki> weird
2019-04-04T01:27:37 < kakimir> I need to know why
2019-04-04T01:28:40 < kakimir> https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-xmc1100-AA_rm-UM-v01_01-EN.pdf?fileId=5546d46255dd933d0155e31753b077af page 65
2019-04-04T01:28:50 < kakimir> do you see anything strange
2019-04-04T01:29:01 < kakimir> I mean I have no problem but I want to understand more
2019-04-04T01:29:43 < kakimir> are veneers newlib thing?
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2019-04-04T01:57:00 < kakimir> prosilence
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2019-04-04T02:06:28 < mawk> what is a veneer
2019-04-04T02:06:35 < mawk> is it a word in your strange language
2019-04-04T02:06:42 < kakimir> no
2019-04-04T02:06:48 < kakimir> use dictionary
2019-04-04T02:07:21 < BrainDamage> venereal disease
2019-04-04T02:07:30 < kakimir> reading about linker scripts made me angry
2019-04-04T02:07:38 < kakimir> I'm only more confused now
2019-04-04T02:07:43 < mawk> newlib won't generate interrupt handlers I think
2019-04-04T02:07:54 < mawk> you got that disease from something else
2019-04-04T02:08:18 < mawk> linker script syntax is a bit strange
2019-04-04T02:08:23 < mawk> to say the least
2019-04-04T02:13:30 < kakimir> reset handler doesn't have veneer
2019-04-04T02:15:11 < kakimir> interestings
2019-04-04T02:15:30 < Cracki> google showed me a book talking about "veneers", but the punch line was on the next page and google wouldn't show that
2019-04-04T02:15:55 < kakimir> veneers are because
2019-04-04T02:16:26 < kakimir> this thing has fixed interrupt vectors
2019-04-04T02:16:28 < Cracki> it talked about code in ROM so maybe this is only done when that vector is pointing at rom, and you can't point it elsewhere, so it has to do that for you
2019-04-04T02:16:47 < kakimir> if I understand correctly
2019-04-04T02:17:32 < Cracki> this is the first I've heard of "veneers" but I am not surprised by interrupt tables that contain jump instructions instead of plain addresses
2019-04-04T02:17:55 < Cracki> (that's not the same tho)
2019-04-04T02:21:27 < kakimir> for reset there is no veneer
2019-04-04T02:21:56 < kakimir> because it's vector points to flash offset 0x4
2019-04-04T02:22:11 < kakimir> it has plenty of room to roam in that flash
2019-04-04T02:22:31 < kakimir> now I can concider sleeping
2019-04-04T02:27:41 < kakimir> wait
2019-04-04T02:27:54 < kakimir> but 16bit LDR instruction
2019-04-04T02:27:59 < kakimir> it can only go so far
2019-04-04T02:28:13 < kakimir> 1020 offset to say
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2019-04-04T02:31:38 < kakimir> so
2019-04-04T02:31:51 < kakimir> I write a huge handler
2019-04-04T02:32:01 < kakimir> hypothethically
2019-04-04T02:34:24 < kakimir> oh wait
2019-04-04T02:35:20 < kakimir> in only loads pointer that is not an issue to relativelly address
2019-04-04T02:35:39 -!- Laurenceb_ [~laurence@81.141.246.69] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-04T02:36:10 < kakimir> asm pro
2019-04-04T03:06:34 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip72-201-79-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-04T03:19:40 < mawk> lol
2019-04-04T03:27:05 -!- enh [~enhering@45.232.36.146] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-04T03:29:37 < Laurenceb_> https://imgur.com/0Njq0yk
2019-04-04T03:47:19 < Cracki> "wierd" yeah
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2019-04-04T04:03:10 < Laurenceb_> https://www.cell.com/joule/pdf/S2542-4351(18)30225-3.pdf
2019-04-04T04:03:39 -!- syn0 is now known as entropikal
2019-04-04T04:03:53 < aandrew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNRnrn5DE58 this is fascinating
2019-04-04T04:17:32 -!- Laurenceb_ [~laurence@81.141.246.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-04-04T04:20:22 < Cracki> lel
2019-04-04T04:22:51 < bitmask> aandrew thanks for the link, I like it already and now I have something to watch while I organize my stuffs
2019-04-04T04:26:13 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/59S6fvY.jpg random induction box
2019-04-04T04:28:12 < Cracki> >go fly a kite
2019-04-04T04:28:23 < Cracki> nice collection
2019-04-04T04:28:37 < Cracki> see any with rotary encoders on them, or dual shaft?
2019-04-04T04:29:08 < enh> Good night.
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2019-04-04T04:48:15 < Cracki> microinches, damn
2019-04-04T05:07:07 < Cracki> awesome companion to empire of dust
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2019-04-04T06:04:33 < s34n> how do you test the usb on a blue pill to know if it works?
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2019-04-04T06:05:34 < Dako300> is this a good place to ask questions about SW4STM32?
2019-04-04T06:05:51 < Dako300> it's not letting me launch a debugging session and pops up a blank error message whenever I try and run it
2019-04-04T06:06:23 < Dako300> the title is "Launch debug error" and the message is blank
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2019-04-04T06:14:49 < Dako300> what do you all use for IDEs?
2019-04-04T06:14:54 < Dako300> Eclipse is awful and there has to be a better way
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2019-04-04T06:37:10 < Cracki> s34n, uh, grab arduino and flash something on it? test basic function of the DP/DM pins? its rom bootloader only uses uart, so you can't test usb with that. larger stm32 have rom bootloaders that do usb dfu, not this one
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2019-04-04T07:43:14 < R2COM> sup
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2019-04-04T07:50:19 < R2COM> come on guys where are the chats
2019-04-04T08:20:28 < dongs> god damn routing USB-C is retarded
2019-04-04T08:20:34 < dongs> sup R2DONGS
2019-04-04T08:20:37 < dongs> im just innovating as usual
2019-04-04T08:21:00 < dongs> but the stanadrd chinapinout for USB-C with full 4 lanes and CC/SBU support is nearly unrouteable on 2l
2019-04-04T08:34:38 < dongs> https://numberone.com/ lol some jap sent me gerber made with this shit
2019-04-04T08:34:54 < dongs> https://numberone.com/images/sales/dual-2.png
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2019-04-04T08:39:45 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfYnvDL0Qcw
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2019-04-04T09:27:22 < R2COM> 2l wtf
2019-04-04T09:29:22 < jly> Gooday sport
2019-04-04T09:29:59 < R2COM> im fighting at work for removing 2l characterization for some ICs
2019-04-04T09:30:46 < R2COM> most of the shit unless its mega simple/obvious must be done on 4l 
2019-04-04T09:30:58 < R2COM> cuz its fuckin 2019
2019-04-04T09:31:56 < R2COM> NUMBERONE lol
2019-04-04T09:31:59 < R2COM> easyPC!
2019-04-04T09:32:08 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-8febe155.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2019-04-04T09:32:09 < R2COM> dont laugh!
2019-04-04T09:32:17 < R2COM> cuz its still better than Altium
2019-04-04T09:32:18 < R2COM> BRUH!
2019-04-04T09:34:46 < jly> Ty for 4L R2COM
2019-04-04T09:35:33 < jly> 2 layers for punching babies
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2019-04-04T09:37:17 < R2COM> sometimes when i define new IC products with specific pinout, theres tradeoff between some properties inside and 2l-friendly pinout
2019-04-04T09:37:29 < R2COM> and im asked to make it so that its routable on 2l
2019-04-04T09:37:39 < jly> Ah fuck
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2019-04-04T09:37:51 < R2COM> however..if i give up that shit and make it so that it needs 4l pcb
2019-04-04T09:37:51 < jly> Must be painful
2019-04-04T09:38:00 < R2COM> i can get some of the better specs itnernally for IC
2019-04-04T09:38:03 < R2COM> and thats what i prefer
2019-04-04T09:38:11 < R2COM> and just tell customers to *fucking use 4l*
2019-04-04T09:38:13 < R2COM> but
2019-04-04T09:38:14 < jly> Make it so
2019-04-04T09:38:15 < R2COM> problem is
2019-04-04T09:38:22 < R2COM> i work with lots of old stupid retards
2019-04-04T09:38:35 < R2COM> and its hard to convince those fucks how shit is done in 2019
2019-04-04T09:39:23 < R2COM> ICs
2019-04-04T09:40:07 < R2COM> especially that most customers buying shit in millions
2019-04-04T09:40:16 < R2COM> at those qty. 2l 4l is not big price diff
2019-04-04T09:41:18 < jly> Make a CS4272 clone for me pls
2019-04-04T09:42:01 < R2COM> what is cs4272
2019-04-04T09:42:46 < jly> Oh those old fckhole chips
2019-04-04T09:42:50 < R2COM> its too hard for me
2019-04-04T09:42:55 < R2COM> im not audio pro
2019-04-04T09:42:58 < R2COM> big learning curve
2019-04-04T09:42:59 < jly> Like bucket brigade delays etc
2019-04-04T09:43:50 < jly> Yeah there must be some real crazy shit involved to innovate good ADC/DAC
2019-04-04T09:44:26 < jly> Haohmaru: any anime on ?
2019-04-04T09:44:39 < R2COM> jly are you crt?
2019-04-04T09:44:47 < jly> Lol
2019-04-04T09:44:59 < jly> R2com pick 10 nicks
2019-04-04T09:45:04 < jly> They’re all me
2019-04-04T09:45:24 < R2COM> just stick to 1 nick nigger
2019-04-04T09:45:46 < jly> Nah it’s fun to dodge ignores and see how long it lasts
2019-04-04T09:46:02 < R2COM> who the hell would ignore you
2019-04-04T09:46:13 < jly> Ask the channel logs
2019-04-04T09:46:26 < jly> Nah
2019-04-04T09:46:29 < R2COM> i dont log
2019-04-04T09:46:30 < jly> Dongs is ok
2019-04-04T09:46:34 < jly> Same
2019-04-04T09:46:42 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip72-201-79-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-04-04T09:47:19 < jly> Speaking of IC design, is it something you did postgrad?
2019-04-04T09:48:10 < R2COM> whats postgrad, phd?
2019-04-04T09:48:14 < R2COM> i dont have any phd
2019-04-04T09:48:20 < jly> Masters?
2019-04-04T09:48:22 < R2COM> yea
2019-04-04T09:49:24 < jly> To go phd is to blaxterise
2019-04-04T09:49:37 < jly> 4chan 8chan, brexit
2019-04-04T09:49:44 < R2COM> 99% of phds are stupid fucks
2019-04-04T09:49:49 < jly> Yeah
2019-04-04T09:50:02 < jly> Lol
2019-04-04T09:50:19 < R2COM> that sounds clother to brazzers
2019-04-04T09:50:21 < jly> I understand nothing about it but the news is amusing
2019-04-04T09:51:41 < R2COM> EU = bunch of sissified brown cock sucking faggots
2019-04-04T09:51:56 < jly> Yeah that is a concern
2019-04-04T09:52:02 < jly> So it makes sense
2019-04-04T09:52:37 < jly> So the disease has spread too far
2019-04-04T09:52:59 < jly> Otherwise they’d have sealed the deal pronto
2019-04-04T09:53:12 < jly> The jew/nigger/arab problem
2019-04-04T09:55:05 < R2COM> Haohmaru https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIcxqVRLEWI
2019-04-04T09:55:39 < jly> All this filthy nigger music to make white women breed with niggers, creating welfare fuel
2019-04-04T09:55:54 < R2COM> Haohmaru you know this dude? https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/metal-crotch-guy/images/a/a1/Novislav_Djajic.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160104215459
2019-04-04T09:56:18 < jly> His autotune might sound sweet until he knocks out your teeth
2019-04-04T09:56:37 < R2COM> i thought you are from eastern europe
2019-04-04T09:56:43 < R2COM> and supposed to know that shit
2019-04-04T09:57:46 < R2COM> ya
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2019-04-04T09:59:26 < R2COM> lol
2019-04-04T10:00:39 < R2COM> you should ask rajko he knows all that shit
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2019-04-04T10:51:26 < Steffanx> Haohmaru, didnt you know mr commie has an aversion to anything that reminds him of his childhood. ;)
2019-04-04T10:56:27 < Steffanx> He might be a russian one yes
2019-04-04T10:58:46 < Steffanx> Nowadays he starts with "minjet?"
2019-04-04T10:59:34 < Steffanx> Lol
2019-04-04T11:07:18 < Thorn> attn jadew another sma-j / sma-k sighting https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10PC-Lot-Original-CDSENET-Antenna-Extension-Line-20cm-XC-SMA-SMA-20-SMA-J-To-SMA/32802923978.html
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2019-04-04T11:11:42 < jadew> Thorn, interesting
2019-04-04T11:12:09 < jadew> so probably one means normal SMA female, the other normal SMA male
2019-04-04T11:12:15 < jadew> as opposed to RP-SMA
2019-04-04T11:12:39 < jadew> but I haven't seen that used anywhere else
2019-04-04T11:13:31 < jadew> could be a chinese-only thing
2019-04-04T11:34:53 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-04-04T11:35:04 < Thorn> 2 soyuz launches today, first one in 2.5 hours
2019-04-04T11:51:36 < Thorn> Haohmaru: https://i.imgflip.com/1qstut.jpg
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2019-04-04T13:43:08 < Thorn> Progress 72 launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg
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2019-04-04T14:22:15 < Steffanx> Nsfw mr Haohmaru ?
2019-04-04T14:23:58 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/cpan_pevans/status/1113550497842114561
2019-04-04T14:40:47 < karlp> dongs:I love how number one feature of that numberone pcb portion is "create pcb designs without a schematic!"
2019-04-04T14:45:43 < dongs> karlp: well, even thats better than last jap who sent me his PCBs made in fucking solidworks and exported as DXF
2019-04-04T14:48:37 < dongs> Shipping to: Worldwide
2019-04-04T14:48:37 < dongs> Excludes: Africa, Asia, Central America and Caribbean, Middle East, Southeast Asia, South America, Russian Federation
2019-04-04T14:48:51 < dongs> thanks, shithead
2019-04-04T14:49:01 < dongs> doesnt that literally just leave EU +USA?
2019-04-04T14:54:46 < day> i like the Asia and ESPECIALLY not Southeast Asia :P
2019-04-04T14:56:42 < day> UK is like the western version of japan. you will feel right at home
2019-04-04T15:00:33 < day> what would we do without it
2019-04-04T15:01:13 < Laurenceb> in the uk we will never get to find out 
2019-04-04T15:01:19 < Laurenceb> infinite brexit extension
2019-04-04T15:01:43 < day> the solution works perfectly fine for our nuclear waste :^)
2019-04-04T15:01:53 < day> why shouldnt it work for UK!
2019-04-04T15:02:16 < Laurenceb> keeek
2019-04-04T15:03:33 < day> not without another referendum. you cant just go of and make a profit D:
2019-04-04T15:03:55 < Laurenceb> maybe put Alba-Chan in a treadmill
2019-04-04T15:04:56 < Laurenceb> ooh she has been drawing more ""art""
2019-04-04T15:04:58 < Laurenceb> https://nervemedia.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/27046252_38034563570_yrgn1-1000x706.jpg
2019-04-04T15:05:36 < Laurenceb> literally female chris-chan
2019-04-04T15:07:13 < Laurenceb> what the... https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/uploads/projects/104269.jpg?1474142416
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2019-04-04T15:11:03 < Laurenceb> https://i1.wp.com/www.albawhitewolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/img_00561.jpg?resize=654%2C1024&ssl=1
2019-04-04T15:13:00 < Laurenceb> tfw https://imgur.com/u7vWjmP
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2019-04-04T16:19:42 < enh> Hi people.
2019-04-04T16:19:57 < enh> https://filebin.net/rh2ssv94g3g8ja8j/MUVeC-Boards.pdf?t=1mk6g7a7
2019-04-04T16:20:32 < enh> Can you please have a look at these boards and tell me if there is an evident flaw?
2019-04-04T16:21:10 < enh> I compiled most of the suggestions you gave me here a few days ago into them.
2019-04-04T16:22:15 < enh> Thanks to aandrew and karlp, I could make the project much better.
2019-04-04T16:27:58 < jpa-> so uh, you expect us to spot mistakes from those tiny preview images?
2019-04-04T16:30:22 < enh> Only the spottable ones
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2019-04-04T16:31:44 < enh> Sorry for the image quality. I could not print a better version of them to PDF. Safari messes the printing a lot.
2019-04-04T16:31:45 < karlp> no-one can spot shit in that tiny garbage
2019-04-04T16:32:22 < enh> I'll try to print it bigger...
2019-04-04T16:35:19 < enh> Sorry. I can't. Just forget it. Thanks for trying.
2019-04-04T16:37:28 < karlp> if yo uwant to share things, just share them from when you export the gerbers yourself?
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2019-04-04T16:50:38 < Laurenceb> https://local.theonion.com/male-gaze-falls-on-buffalo-chicken-bites-1819576499
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2019-04-04T17:01:59 < enh> karlp: https://filebin.net/rh2ssv94g3g8ja8j
2019-04-04T17:02:14 < enh> This one is better.
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2019-04-04T17:12:21 < enh> I wanted to document the schematic diagram in a way that I would not make a stupid mistake.
2019-04-04T17:13:01 < enh> In this way I have a clear view of the pins and ports. Sorry. This is a newbie mistake. I'm a complete beginner.
2019-04-04T17:13:49 < enh> I need to keep all the info visible, or I tend to forget stuff.
2019-04-04T17:14:23 < enh> There are more modules. These ones are the less complex
2019-04-04T17:14:30 < enh> Yep.
2019-04-04T17:15:29 < enh> For me this way is easier to spot mistakes, as there are many STM32F303CC packages and the datasheet shows all the pins for all packages.
2019-04-04T17:15:54 < enh> I tried to make the PCB look good, at least.
2019-04-04T17:16:38 < enh> I hope to have more experience and do not need it when I wotk with LQFP100 or 144
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2019-04-04T17:19:06 < enh> It certainly looks better
2019-04-04T17:20:25 < enh> I have uploaded two more PCBS to the same bin. The connection between the modules and the power supply module.
2019-04-04T17:20:54 < enh> Indeed
2019-04-04T17:21:23 < enh> But I mapped the ones I chose for this template.
2019-04-04T17:22:43 < enh> Ok
2019-04-04T17:22:55 < enh> I'll try that
2019-04-04T17:25:08 < enh> That is much nicer
2019-04-04T17:25:24 < enh> Thanks, Haohmaru.
2019-04-04T17:27:33 < enh> Could you spot something obviously wrong in the diagram?
2019-04-04T17:31:03 < enh> ok
2019-04-04T17:31:51 < enh> the PCBs passed DRC
2019-04-04T17:32:06 < enh> I have not tried ERC
2019-04-04T17:33:01 < enh> ok. Must learn it
2019-04-04T17:33:52 < enh> I neglected feeding the pin directions and roles when I made the diagram.
2019-04-04T17:34:44 < enh> nope
2019-04-04T17:35:04 < enh> I will
2019-04-04T17:35:38 < enh> I'm confused about pin properties on pins with alternate functions.
2019-04-04T17:36:19 < enh> I never know if all alternate properties are outgoing or incoming
2019-04-04T17:36:27 < enh> ok
2019-04-04T17:37:27 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/A2J3dZs
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2019-04-04T17:42:16 < enh> Thanks, Haohmaru.
2019-04-04T17:42:26 < enh> Thanks a lot for the suggestions.
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2019-04-04T17:49:05 < dongs> sup dongs
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2019-04-04T17:58:17 < rajkosto> why is there a 75 ohm resistor on these SK6812 https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-04-04_16-57-40_VI6RchTXF.png
2019-04-04T17:59:14 < con3> lmao Haohmaru, what's wrong with kicad?
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2019-04-04T18:00:27  * con3 torrents altium
2019-04-04T18:00:49 < con3> haven't actually used kicad, just hear a lot about it 
2019-04-04T18:01:41  * con3 picks up teddy and talks to kicad
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2019-04-04T18:07:26 < Cracki> rajkosto, maybe they're dumb leds and need a current limiting res for cv supply?
2019-04-04T18:07:41 < rajkosto> nop
2019-04-04T18:07:46 < rajkosto> its SK6812
2019-04-04T18:07:52 < Cracki> meaning?
2019-04-04T18:08:00 < rajkosto> WS28whatever protocol
2019-04-04T18:08:04 < rajkosto> but with a white led as well
2019-04-04T18:08:08 < rajkosto> in the first 8 bits
2019-04-04T18:08:42 < Cracki> input protection maybe? no idea
2019-04-04T18:09:06 < Cracki> app circuit shows bypass cap only
2019-04-04T18:09:32 < Cracki> this mentions the series resistor https://cpldcpu.wordpress.com/2016/03/09/the-sk6812-another-intelligent-rgb-led/
2019-04-04T18:11:27 < Cracki> same here, tldr: DIN might power pixel through protection diodes https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/177019/why-does-a-resistor-in-my-neopixel-data-line-work-at-all
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2019-04-04T18:23:56 < rajkosto> the resistor is on VDD not DIN
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2019-04-04T18:51:55 < bitmask> man, wish I found this sooner, cainiao is so much better than 17track
2019-04-04T18:56:49 < Mangy_Dog> TRIES IT
2019-04-04T18:57:00 < Mangy_Dog> 17track has stopped tracking some stuff ive been waiting for
2019-04-04T18:57:05 < Mangy_Dog> several weeks ago
2019-04-04T18:57:10 < Mangy_Dog> and still not turned up
2019-04-04T18:57:14 < Mangy_Dog> lets see if this finds it
2019-04-04T19:00:33 < Mangy_Dog> sadly nothing new on there :( still just says hand over to airline and thats it
2019-04-04T19:00:37 < Mangy_Dog> since 15th last week
2019-04-04T19:00:49 < Mangy_Dog> and 11th
2019-04-04T19:00:52 < Mangy_Dog> with the other package
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2019-04-04T19:17:09 < bitmask> 17track doesn't find most of the stuff I order from ali, cainaio finds every single one of em
2019-04-04T19:17:53 < bitmask> the ones that 17track do find have the same info though
2019-04-04T19:18:02 < bitmask> so its not more detailed or anything
2019-04-04T19:18:07 < bitmask> just finds more
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2019-04-04T19:30:51 < Steffanx> Parcelapp.com wasnt/isnt too bad either bitmask 
2019-04-04T19:31:04 < bitmask> hmm never heard of it, i'll check it out
2019-04-04T19:31:13 < bitmask> hah "buy this domain"
2019-04-04T19:35:02 < Steffanx> Oh parcelsapp :)
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2019-04-04T20:00:29 < bitmask> nice, I think I'll pay for the premium, thanks for the info
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2019-04-04T20:05:58 < Thorn> 2nd soyuz launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmwjV3eoTqY
2019-04-04T20:06:46 < Laurenceb> lol the narrator
2019-04-04T20:07:06 < Laurenceb> Princess Diana with the narration
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2019-04-04T20:35:26 < kakimir> hello bois
2019-04-04T20:36:06 < catphish> hello love
2019-04-04T20:36:38 < kakimir> innovations catphish ?
2019-04-04T20:37:34 < bitmask> what ever happened with the pnp?
2019-04-04T20:45:20 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyNqXMLaFQM
2019-04-04T20:46:17 < kakimir> tldw
2019-04-04T20:46:33 < Laurenceb> the first few seconds are lulzy enough
2019-04-04T20:47:32 < Laurenceb> >autistic screeching
2019-04-04T20:47:40 < kakimir> is it you?
2019-04-04T20:48:11 < Laurenceb> quality trawl
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2019-04-04T21:13:05 < Thorn> is there a 6 or 8 diode assembly in a small package?
2019-04-04T21:13:26 < Thorn> like bat54a/c/s but more than 2 diodes
2019-04-04T21:13:44 < kakimir> what innovation you use it for?
2019-04-04T21:14:01 < Thorn> this sx1276 thing with its 6 interrupt outputs is pretty stupid
2019-04-04T21:14:32 < Thorn> I'd rather OR all of them and use just 1 gpio on the mcu
2019-04-04T21:14:48 < Thorn> in my next projects
2019-04-04T21:15:18 < qyx> wut
2019-04-04T21:15:39 < qyx> you just need ~2 of them for most of the things
2019-04-04T21:16:00 < Thorn> or maybe a 8-way nand
2019-04-04T21:16:15 < kakimir> oh I see
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2019-04-04T21:18:30 < Thorn> in the board I'm working on now I connected dio[2:0] directly to the mcu and combined the rest ([5:3]) into a single line with 2 bat54
2019-04-04T21:18:57 < Thorn> (I dunno yet if I need them at all)
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2019-04-04T21:19:41 < kakimir> Thorn: what pins are interrupt outputs?
2019-04-04T21:19:54 < Thorn> DIO[5:0]
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2019-04-04T21:21:12 < kakimir> you cannot configure them as open drains?
2019-04-04T21:21:23 < Thorn> nope afaik
2019-04-04T21:26:08 < qyx> I am using 0 of 5 interrupt lines on SX1231
2019-04-04T21:26:11 < jpa-> generally you'd probably just use RxDone and TxDone, which are both on DIO0
2019-04-04T21:26:41 < qyx> and it is possible to implement fully slotted MAC
2019-04-04T21:26:48 < qyx> with sync precision under 500us
2019-04-04T21:26:57 < catphish> kakimir: no innovations, i gave up on the pnp, it essentially worked, but realised it was totally impractical for anything
2019-04-04T21:27:21 < qyx> the only thing missing is sync match interrupt
2019-04-04T21:27:22 < catphish> i'm not really working on anything at the moment :)
2019-04-04T21:27:53 < qyx> (because the SX cannot timestamp incoming packets)
2019-04-04T21:30:39 < Thorn> I'm currently writing my driver (or rather adapting the semtech one), still at the init/make it tx stage, not reached interrupt handling yet
2019-04-04T21:30:56 < qyx> also only a single packet can be put in the RX fifo, at least on the chip I used
2019-04-04T21:32:22 < qyx> I am saying it because that means you cannot receive continuous stream of packets even with interrupts
2019-04-04T21:32:25 < qyx> so I was just meh
2019-04-04T21:32:32 < qyx> and did polling
2019-04-04T21:33:46 < kakimir> pnp?
2019-04-04T21:34:23 < qyx> poll and poll?
2019-04-04T21:34:53 < kakimir> pick and place
2019-04-04T21:37:21 < catphish> oh, it was bitmask that asked :)
2019-04-04T21:37:43 < bitmask> ahh thats too bad
2019-04-04T21:37:49 < bitmask> why was it impractical?
2019-04-04T21:38:31 < Thorn> qyx: sx127z have continuous mode (FSK only), this mode afaik bypasses the fifo completely
2019-04-04T21:38:46 < catphish> hard to explain, just a LOT of aligning and setup, way exceeding what i'd actually achieve using it
2019-04-04T21:39:33 < catphish> probably if i set up proper feeders it would be better
2019-04-04T21:39:34 < qyx> Thorn: cont mode uses fifo but bypasses packet handler
2019-04-04T21:39:35 < bitmask> I see
2019-04-04T21:39:44 < qyx> so you don't get exact packet start sync
2019-04-04T21:39:58 < qyx> there is also a direct mode when you get FSK data on a GPIO
2019-04-04T21:40:09 < qyx> but usually you want the packet handler
2019-04-04T21:40:44 < qyx> and usually you also want to handle fifo empty, fifo full, fifi not empty, fifo threshold
2019-04-04T21:40:54 < qyx> because otherwise your max packet size <= FIFO size
2019-04-04T21:41:43 < qyx> but if you set fifo threshold to len(fifo)/2, you can poll status reg every ~32 bytes
2019-04-04T21:42:28 < qyx> which is not that fast, you can easily ignore those interrupts
2019-04-04T21:43:10 < qyx> anyway, I am talking too much
2019-04-04T21:43:15 < qyx> and not being helpful
2019-04-04T21:54:58 < qyx> Cracki: rcc_periph_clock_enable(RCC_PWR); PWR_CR |= PWR_CR_ENSD1;
2019-04-04T21:55:33 < qyx> why the hell there is no reference in the SDADC section that you need to enable the SDADC in the PWR peripheral
2019-04-04T21:57:12 < qyx> they only mention PWR_CR in the ref voltage selection
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2019-04-04T22:06:34 < Cracki> heh good to know
2019-04-04T22:08:12 < Cracki> that bit is only mentioned in "13.5.12 ref voltage"
2019-04-04T22:08:17 < qyx> yeah
2019-04-04T22:09:59 < Cracki> otoh "enable sdadc" has one hit, for ensd1 :> I should have tried that too
2019-04-04T22:10:14 < qyx> lol
2019-04-04T22:11:36 < Cracki> 13.4 block diagram says "sdadc enable" and that had no hits
2019-04-04T22:11:40 < Cracki> no useful ones
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2019-04-04T22:22:00 < zyp> hmm, I'm not sure what I'm most annoyed at, the interface of the nrf usb driver or my usb stack, but they're not a super good fit for each other
2019-04-04T22:22:31 < Steffanx> its your fault.
2019-04-04T22:22:34 < Cracki> if anyone denies that the sheets can be noticeably improved, this is a prime example. it's bad because something is missing, and it can be improved by mentioning it
2019-04-04T22:22:45 < zyp> Steffanx, yeah, probably
2019-04-04T22:23:12 < zyp> I mean, the usb peripheral is not badly designed
2019-04-04T22:23:19 < zyp> just trying to be annoingly clever
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2019-04-04T22:25:33 < zyp> EP0 gets special treatment and instead of the normal data in/out completion events, there's an EP0DATADONE event, telling nothing about whether a read or a write finished
2019-04-04T22:26:10 < zyp> and the lowlevel drivers in my stack doesn't keep track of that, all the control states are handled in the generic upper layers
2019-04-04T22:26:48 < zyp> same with the status stage, there's a EP0STATUS trigger to send that
2019-04-04T22:27:16 < zyp> oh, and there's one thing that's pretty stupid
2019-04-04T22:27:50 < zyp> setup packets are decomposed into registers, eight of them
2019-04-04T22:28:16 < zyp> setup packets are eight bytes, each byte is extended into a 32-bit register
2019-04-04T22:28:44 < zyp> including the 16-bit fields in it
2019-04-04T22:29:18 < zyp> there's a WVALUEL and a WVALUEH register, each being 32-bit and holding 8-bit of the 16-bit wValue field :p
2019-04-04T22:30:03 < Steffanx> hah
2019-04-04T22:30:19 < Steffanx> did they port some of their 8 bit controller stuff?
2019-04-04T22:30:32 < zyp> I don't think so, other registers are larger than 8 bits
2019-04-04T22:31:07 < kakimir> mentoring time zyp
2019-04-04T22:31:07 < zyp> and the peripheral seems fairly modern
2019-04-04T22:31:14 < zyp> with DMA and shit
2019-04-04T22:32:21 < zyp> that's also something my stack doesn't utilize well yet, but I'm just creating some buffers inside the drivers that I'm letting my read()/write() functions memcpy from/to
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2019-04-04T22:32:31 < zyp> kakimir, hmm?
2019-04-04T22:32:50 < kakimir> let's learn basics
2019-04-04T22:33:17 < kakimir> linker scripts
2019-04-04T22:34:44 < zyp> yeah?
2019-04-04T22:35:23 < kakimir> I don't have any questions
2019-04-04T22:35:34 < zyp> what do you want to know?
2019-04-04T22:35:51 < kakimir> everything
2019-04-04T22:35:55 < zyp> ok
2019-04-04T22:37:25 < zyp> linker takes objects and turn them into executables, both are elf files
2019-04-04T22:37:53 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-04T22:38:47 < zyp> elf files are divided into sections, linker script defines what input sections are mapped into what output sections and what addresses the output sections would be located at
2019-04-04T22:39:28 < kakimir> oh there is input and output sections
2019-04-04T22:39:35 < zyp> yes
2019-04-04T22:39:56 < zyp> compiler flags like -ffunction-sections creates one section per function
2019-04-04T22:40:06 < zyp> so you can have a ton of input sections
2019-04-04T22:40:08 < kakimir> why would you do that?
2019-04-04T22:40:25 < zyp> because then you can do -Wl,--gc-sections
2019-04-04T22:40:48 < zyp> which tells the linker to drop all sections that are not referred to
2019-04-04T22:41:03 < zyp> i.e. drop all unused functions
2019-04-04T22:41:22 < kakimir> sweet
2019-04-04T22:41:32 < kakimir> important to know
2019-04-04T22:42:37 < kakimir> what linker optimizations do?
2019-04-04T22:42:58 < zyp> LTO? idk, haven't studied in detail
2019-04-04T22:43:29 < kakimir> have you used it?
2019-04-04T22:44:01 < zyp> I have the impression LTO stores intermediate models instead of objects, and then joins the intermediates and optimizes before turning it into a single object and linking it
2019-04-04T22:44:14 < zyp> but I haven't looked much into the specifics
2019-04-04T22:44:27 < zyp> and I haven't bothered for my own stuff
2019-04-04T22:44:33 < jpa-> LTO is like   cat *.cpp > all.cpp   and compiling that, except with proper visibility of symbols
2019-04-04T22:45:03 < zyp> much of my stuff is header only, so LTO wouldn't make a big difference
2019-04-04T22:45:18 < kakimir> most of my stuff is nasty
2019-04-04T22:45:20 < kakimir> but works
2019-04-04T22:45:23 < zyp> that too
2019-04-04T22:45:51 < jpa-> for c++ code, identical code section combining can reduce size by some ~10%, but it makes setting breakpoints somewhat annoying
2019-04-04T22:46:06 < jpa-> (as now several functions can be at same address)
2019-04-04T22:46:18 < kakimir> interesting
2019-04-04T22:46:26 < zyp> I saw modules got voted into C++20, that seems interesting
2019-04-04T22:46:38 < jpa-> (that doesn't require LTO, just use gnu gold linker instead of ld)
2019-04-04T22:47:13 < zyp> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2017/n4637.pdf <- this shit
2019-04-04T22:47:52 < qyx> mhm my TLV8811 unity gain buffer oscillates at 1.037kHz
2019-04-04T22:48:05 < jpa-> being most complex programming language on earth is not enough, time to add more features
2019-04-04T22:48:10 < zyp> as far as I can tell, modules does away with the whole header/source file split
2019-04-04T22:48:22 < zyp> which seems like a pretty nice benefit
2019-04-04T22:48:25 < jpa-> C++ is almost as bad as english, but fortunately they haven't started borrowing keywords from french yet
2019-04-04T22:48:40 < zyp> jpa-, I don't care how complex it is, I'm not writing a compiler :p
2019-04-04T22:48:53 < zyp> I just like new features that simplifies usage of it
2019-04-04T22:49:10 < jpa-> qyx: does it have capacitive load?
2019-04-04T22:49:28 < qyx> yes it has, it drives VREF+
2019-04-04T22:49:34 < qyx> with a 1u cap :X
2019-04-04T22:49:49 < jpa-> datasheet section 7.4.4 says it's unity gain stable up to 50pF
2019-04-04T22:50:02 < jpa-> i think 1uF may exceed 50pF a bit
2019-04-04T22:50:17 < qyx> if u is more than p, yes
2019-04-04T22:50:50 < qyx> I just soldered a random opamp here
2019-04-04T22:56:40 < kakimir> what are extab and exitd?
2019-04-04T22:57:42 < zyp> metadata sections?
2019-04-04T22:57:52 < zyp> exception data, perhaps
2019-04-04T22:57:57 < zyp> I haven't cared about them
2019-04-04T22:58:30 < qyx> I can just bypass it and use VREF=VDDA
2019-04-04T22:59:02 < qyx> or desolder it and use internal vref
2019-04-04T22:59:16 < kakimir> } > SRAM AT > FLASH what is this
2019-04-04T22:59:47 < zyp> what memory areas to put the output section in
2019-04-04T23:00:39 < kakimir> why it has AT
2019-04-04T23:00:41 < zyp> each section has two addresses; LMA and VMA
2019-04-04T23:00:52 < kakimir> ?
2019-04-04T23:01:14 < zyp> you can think of it as load-address and execute-address
2019-04-04T23:02:06 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-04T23:02:12 < kakimir> load from flash
2019-04-04T23:02:17 < kakimir> execute from ram?
2019-04-04T23:02:20 < zyp> LMA is where the section will be loaded, VMA is where the section is expected to be when executed
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2019-04-04T23:02:32 < zyp> well, load _to_ flash, but yes
2019-04-04T23:03:05 < kakimir> what those letters stand for?
2019-04-04T23:03:21 < zyp> on microcontrollers .text and .rodata are loaded to flash and also executed from there
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2019-04-04T23:03:35 < kakimir> ye
2019-04-04T23:03:53 < zyp> .data has an initial copy that's also loaded to flash, which startup code will copy to ram, so that when executed it reads from and writes to ram
2019-04-04T23:04:22 < zyp> and .bss is just zero-initialized data in ram, so it doesn't need to be loaded anywhere
2019-04-04T23:04:36 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-04T23:04:44 < kakimir> it's just range on variables
2019-04-04T23:04:57 < kakimir> initialized all with 0
2019-04-04T23:05:03 < zyp> yes
2019-04-04T23:05:14 < kakimir> I know that much
2019-04-04T23:05:34 < zyp> what letters?
2019-04-04T23:05:42 < kakimir> googled them already
2019-04-04T23:05:46 < kakimir> LMA and VMA
2019-04-04T23:05:49 < zyp> ah
2019-04-04T23:05:59 < zyp> load/virtual memory address, IIRC
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2019-04-04T23:07:08 < Rickta59> load memory address i thought
2019-04-04T23:07:22 < Rickta59> * i'm slow :)
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2019-04-04T23:07:41 < zyp> on a system with MMU, LMA might be where stuff is loaded to in physical ram before the MMU is enabled, VMA might be where the MMU maps it to
2019-04-04T23:14:05 < kakimir> can we go deeper?
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2019-04-04T23:17:14 < kakimir> MMU creates virtual address space?
2019-04-04T23:17:34 < zyp> that's the whole point of a MMU :)
2019-04-04T23:18:30 < kakimir> so
2019-04-04T23:19:07 < kakimir> is it like one area of ram with offset
2019-04-04T23:19:10 < kakimir> or multiple
2019-04-04T23:19:15 < kakimir> and how many if multiple
2019-04-04T23:20:50 < kakimir> I'm not ready for MMU
2019-04-04T23:21:14 < zyp> modern MMUs are paging, not sure what's common page sizes nowadays, but traditionally they have been 4k
2019-04-04T23:21:51 < zyp> which means that any 4k page in the virtual memory space can be mapped to an arbitrary page of physical memory
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2019-04-04T23:23:44 < kakimir> okay
2019-04-04T23:23:46 < kakimir> let's say
2019-04-04T23:23:53 < kakimir> I want to fiddle with flash
2019-04-04T23:24:27 < zyp> keep in mind that microcontrollers don't have MMUs
2019-04-04T23:24:46 < kakimir> hmm
2019-04-04T23:24:58 < zyp> the presence of a MMU is the major difference between cortex-a and cortex-m
2019-04-04T23:25:07 < kakimir> when I'm ready I'm ready
2019-04-04T23:25:12 < kakimir> it's not now
2019-04-04T23:25:21 < kakimir> I can figure it out if I need it
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2019-04-04T23:26:12 < kakimir> it's pretty good rule
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2019-04-04T23:27:28 < kakimir> so my examples
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2019-04-04T23:28:20 < kakimir> 1) lpc1517 flash hole when using openocd
2019-04-04T23:28:30 < kakimir> how to link nothing to it
2019-04-04T23:28:48 < kakimir> it's like 140bytes wide hole in certain address
2019-04-04T23:28:56 < zyp> wat
2019-04-04T23:29:09 < kakimir> indeed
2019-04-04T23:29:30 < zyp> that sounds retarded
2019-04-04T23:29:36 < kakimir> with lpc1549 there is no issue
2019-04-04T23:29:40 < kakimir> even with openocd
2019-04-04T23:29:56 < kakimir> should be pretty much the same chip just more banks
2019-04-04T23:30:00 < kakimir> and usb
2019-04-04T23:30:09 < zyp> how big is the total flash area and where in that area is the hole?
2019-04-04T23:31:08 < zyp> I mean, a hole in flash doesn't make sense, you'll have to show me the documentation for that before I'll believe it :p
2019-04-04T23:33:06 < kakimir> I try to find the evidence
2019-04-04T23:33:17 < kakimir> using serial programming there is no hole
2019-04-04T23:35:29 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2GcdpJiNGfKN1k3WXFkMmdxWlk/view?usp=sharing
2019-04-04T23:35:48 < zyp> umm
2019-04-04T23:35:59 < zyp> so there's no hole, your shit is just fucked up
2019-04-04T23:36:26 < kakimir> but when I took the binary
2019-04-04T23:36:36 < kakimir> and shoved it in with serial it was ok
2019-04-04T23:37:18 < zyp> yeah, that just means your debugger is broken
2019-04-04T23:37:36 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-04T23:37:47 < kakimir> server?
2019-04-04T23:37:52 < kakimir> or client?
2019-04-04T23:38:00 < zyp> how would I know?
2019-04-04T23:39:45 < kakimir> I think how I worked it was this 1) load binary with serial 2) start debugging session without flashing
2019-04-04T23:41:32 < Steffanx> did you know mcuxpresso is hotter than lpcxpresso kakimir?
2019-04-04T23:41:43 < kakimir> photos are old
2019-04-04T23:42:02 < Steffanx> i think your IDE didnt understand your finnish file names
2019-04-04T23:42:12 < Laurenceb> http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/white-nationalists-adopt-clowns-as-their-next-racist-symbol-yes-seriously/
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2019-04-04T23:53:50 < Cracki> that's a conspiracy theory
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--- Day changed Fri Apr 05 2019
2019-04-05T00:03:42 < kakimir> zyp: then example 2
2019-04-05T00:03:55 < kakimir> I need to fiddle with flash
2019-04-05T00:04:07 < kakimir> and need a place for it
2019-04-05T00:07:07 < kakimir> so I think I need to manipulated linker script
2019-04-05T00:07:17 < kakimir> *a manipulated
2019-04-05T00:09:58 < karlp> not really,
2019-04-05T00:10:09 < karlp> just declare yuour normal flash space to be a different size, so it won't allocate your program there and then just manage it yourself.
2019-04-05T00:11:01 < zyp> linker allocates from the start, so you don't even have to reduce the size
2019-04-05T00:11:35 < zyp> but it's of course a good idea so you get an error if your firmware grows too fat to fit
2019-04-05T00:12:23 < karlp> playing with fire if you're relying on that :)
2019-04-05T00:12:40 < kakimir> okay then a thing
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2019-04-05T00:12:47 < karlp> it's also the sort of silent magic thatt annoys following engineers
2019-04-05T00:12:52 < kakimir> I may use whatever chip variant available
2019-04-05T00:13:02 < zyp> karlp, eh, it's all relative
2019-04-05T00:13:16 < kakimir> maybe I just build it for the smallest
2019-04-05T00:13:36 < karlp> zyp:whenyou can just declare it, you get warnings when you're crashing into your private space for free
2019-04-05T00:13:45 < zyp> yes
2019-04-05T00:14:01 < kakimir> why not manipulate linker script?
2019-04-05T00:14:12 < karlp> because zyp is lazy
2019-04-05T00:14:27 < kakimir> what is the correct way
2019-04-05T00:15:33 < rajkosto> how HID output report easy 4 bytes just RGBA get packet in interrupt done
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2019-04-05T00:16:00 < zyp> rajkosto, that sentence doesn't parse
2019-04-05T00:16:04 < karlp> how sentences write wat?
2019-04-05T00:16:27 < Steffanx> But is it valid perl?
2019-04-05T00:16:32 < Steffanx> http://colinm.org/sigbovik/
2019-04-05T00:17:20 < kakimir> "Incremental write without erase for semaphores." What dis?
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2019-04-05T00:18:13 < rajkosto> zyp, parses perfectly
2019-04-05T00:18:57 < Steffanx> It parses but does not make sense.
2019-04-05T00:19:13 < rajkosto> just want to set 4 bytes in HID output report and get that in stm32 in an interrupt
2019-04-05T00:19:20 < rajkosto> ez
2019-04-05T00:19:39 < zyp> oh, that's easy
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2019-04-05T00:20:36 < Steffanx> Would be even easier if laks did interrupts :P
2019-04-05T00:21:01 < Steffanx> For the usb part that is
2019-04-05T00:21:03 < zyp> fuck interrupts, callbacks are good enough :p
2019-04-05T00:21:13 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/arcin/main.cpp?id=8d37e2d#n196 <- but I mean, this is what you want, pretty much
2019-04-05T00:21:24 < karlp> Steffanx: nice :)
2019-04-05T00:22:57 < rajkosto> is set_output_report called from an interrupt
2019-04-05T00:23:14 < zyp> no, why would you want that?
2019-04-05T00:23:22 < karlp> parsing well again.
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2019-04-05T00:24:01 < zyp> doing too complex shit in ISRs is generally a bad idea
2019-04-05T00:27:08 < qyx> ok, sdadc works, doing 16* exponential moving average I am getting results stable within 0.001°C
2019-04-05T00:27:12 < qyx> (reading 10K NTC)
2019-04-05T00:27:54 < qyx> probably the biggest overkill I have ever made
2019-04-05T00:28:33 < zyp> Steffanx, if you really want to, I guess you could call usb.process() from the usb interrupt, just make sure to enable all the interrupt flags it polls
2019-04-05T00:29:14 < Steffanx> Hah ok
2019-04-05T00:29:16 < zyp> or drop that and just poll it from a timer ISR :)
2019-04-05T00:30:43 < zyp> only problem is potential races if the interrupt fires while the thread code is in the middle of calling into the stack
2019-04-05T00:30:53 < zyp> that's not necessarily safe
2019-04-05T00:37:05 < kakimir> interesting if I enable flash ECC reset
2019-04-05T00:37:49 < kakimir> would that mean that when something goes bad when I write data to flash
2019-04-05T00:37:54 < kakimir> I get reset loop
2019-04-05T00:38:23 < kakimir> maybe
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2019-04-05T00:50:51 < bitmask> in a switch mode supply, why does large resistance feedback values result in noise?
2019-04-05T00:51:28 < rajkosto> you mean capacitance ?
2019-04-05T00:51:41 < bitmask> ?
2019-04-05T00:52:25 < rajkosto> larger resistance == less feedback current flowing == easier to be affected by noise nearby
2019-04-05T00:52:57 < rajkosto> you can also have feedback capacitors so that tiny noise on the output doesnt make it back to the regulator
2019-04-05T00:53:23 < rajkosto> for stability purposes
2019-04-05T00:54:21 < bitmask> I see, I think being more susceptible to noise is what I was lookin for, thanks
2019-04-05T00:54:40 < rajkosto> its why they say keep the feedback trace away from the inductor and such
2019-04-05T00:55:05 < rajkosto> youre supposed to just use the voltage divieder resistors as recommended by the datasheet though
2019-04-05T00:55:07 < bitmask> and use resistors under 1M
2019-04-05T00:55:25 < rajkosto> around 100k ? is what i saw as most common
2019-04-05T00:55:26 < bitmask> yea
2019-04-05T00:56:50 < bitmask> not sure on suggested values, but video I'm watching is using only 1k for a lm2678
2019-04-05T00:57:09 < rajkosto> the voltage divider resistors from output back to feedback pin ?
2019-04-05T00:57:39 < rajkosto> the dc2dc chips ive used were like 68K and 121K etc
2019-04-05T00:58:16 < bitmask> looks like 10k and 1k in series and 1k on the other side
2019-04-05T01:00:54 < bitmask> There are not enough hours in life
2019-04-05T01:01:59 < rajkosto> is it an old dc2dc ?
2019-04-05T01:07:33 < bitmask> A recommended value to use for R1 is 1k. 
2019-04-05T01:07:33 < bitmask> says ds
2019-04-05T01:08:14 < bitmask> so for 14.8v R2 is 11.23k
2019-04-05T01:08:29 < bitmask> so video guy has it right
2019-04-05T01:09:10 < rajkosto> then follow that
2019-04-05T01:09:57 < bitmask> im not even using that ic, I was just wondering in general, just watching some videos to grow my brain
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2019-04-05T01:15:18 < rajkosto> the regulator will change output voltage as long as the voltage on the FB pin isnt its reference FB voltage
2019-04-05T01:15:48 < rajkosto> so you form voltage divider from your output to the FB pin so that the voltage at FB == reference voltage when output voltage is what yo uwant
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2019-04-05T01:45:05 < englishman> https://m.imgur.com/gallery/58bBc43
2019-04-05T01:45:29 < englishman> what process is that? and what is going on exactly? it isn't immediately obvious to me
2019-04-05T01:46:30 < englishman> could be a center tap potentiometer style thing but than what process? and how could they expect that to last more than a few months?
2019-04-05T01:54:01 < sync> that is literally the same as every throttle pedal or flappy style air flow sensor
2019-04-05T01:55:42 < englishman> it seems all backwards with that tiny wiping area
2019-04-05T01:55:46 < Cracki> conclusion: wtf it's a throwaway
2019-04-05T01:56:17 < Cracki> it's not. in the corner you have ground and supply, the springs transfer that to the diagonally opposed pads which are the "center" taps
2019-04-05T01:59:02 < Cracki> maybe they didn't find anything optical or magnetic that fit the space and now they're hoping to just replace parts under warranty
2019-04-05T02:00:44 < Cracki> the opposed pads could have been something more wear-resistant but the pots in the corner are doomed
2019-04-05T02:03:35 < Cracki> some "how to fix it" video says 10 bucks for a replacement part
2019-04-05T02:04:31 < Cracki> probably a sensible business decision... cheap for casual gamers, easy to fix in case of heavy use
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2019-04-05T02:10:59 < datasoop> hello
2019-04-05T02:12:05 < datasoop> i need help, i use linux, truestudio, st-link v2, what configuration to use inside "run configuration"
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2019-04-05T02:22:03 < Laurenceb_> College Student CONFRONTS Ben Shapiro, Gets SCHOOLED!!!!
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2019-04-05T02:32:49 < Cracki> stop watching so much midget porn pls
2019-04-05T02:33:49 < Cracki> datasoop, what options do you have
2019-04-05T02:37:24 < Cracki> and why do you want to touch that at all?
2019-04-05T02:39:32 < Laurenceb_> BASED Ben Shapiro DESTROYS Palestinian neighbourhood with FACTS and LOGIC!!
2019-04-05T02:39:41 < datasoop> @Cracki hi
2019-04-05T02:39:55 < datasoop> @Cracki i'm looking for the "Run" configs
2019-04-05T02:40:17 < kakimir> datasoop: are you saying you are lost?
2019-04-05T02:40:52 < datasoop> @kakimir i don't have the right configs for the external tools
2019-04-05T02:41:13 < Cracki> are your external tools a secret?
2019-04-05T02:41:37 < kakimir> stlink v2?
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2019-04-05T02:42:34 < datasoop> yes
2019-04-05T02:42:47 < Cracki> it's truestudio, it supports that already
2019-04-05T02:42:51 < Cracki> if it doesn't, reinstall it
2019-04-05T02:42:52 < datasoop> stlink v2 + truestudio in linux
2019-04-05T02:42:56 < Cracki> reinstall
2019-04-05T02:43:46 < datasoop> what i whanna do is running without debugging 
2019-04-05T02:44:06 < datasoop> just flashing
2019-04-05T02:44:08 < Cracki> what does google say?
2019-04-05T02:45:17 < datasoop> google say Windows configs
2019-04-05T02:45:39 < datasoop> this is why i'm here to see if anyone is running TS in linux
2019-04-05T02:45:48 < Cracki> show me what it says
2019-04-05T02:47:03 < datasoop> i need the st-flash arguments for linux; this is what i need
2019-04-05T02:54:31 < zyp> I believe nobody uses st-flash anymore, try openocd
2019-04-05T02:54:58 < zyp> and no, I still don't know which arguments you should use
2019-04-05T03:01:30 < Laurenceb_> https://imgoat.com/uploads/f3ef77ac0e/209032.jpg
2019-04-05T03:20:54 < Laurenceb_> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40420.msg1931499#msg1931499
2019-04-05T03:21:06 < Laurenceb_> keeek nutcase forum says something relevant
2019-04-05T03:22:22 < Laurenceb_> AND ITS BEAUTIFUL!
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2019-04-05T05:24:41 < bitmask> anotha day anotha dolla
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2019-04-05T06:01:41 < EXTIRQ> Can anyone enlighten me as to why HAL_GPIO_EXTI_IRQHandler/HAL_GPIO_EXTI_Callback only takes a GPIO_Pin parameter, but not GPIO_Port?
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2019-04-05T06:33:41 < R2COM> sup guys
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2019-04-05T08:02:38 < Thorn> I changed 3 lines in the semtech driver and my .text size went down by 4236 bytes
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2019-04-05T09:00:48 < invzim> gurus..  anyone of you expereinced ram corruption?
2019-04-05T09:01:20 < invzim> stm32f4 ram
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2019-04-05T09:01:44 < invzim> I'm not sure yet, have 1 board that fails something in a really weird way
2019-04-05T09:03:52 < invzim> it is something
2019-04-05T09:04:02 < invzim> stuff works on 3 out of 4 boards so far
2019-04-05T09:04:40 < invzim> so yeah, never heard of ram failure - but most likely culprit in my brain for now, even if it seems crazy
2019-04-05T09:05:17 < invzim> it's one function, I list all parameters on input and print result
2019-04-05T09:06:29 < invzim> and on one of the boards, the result is faulty after an intended reset
2019-04-05T09:07:27 < invzim> here, the error is very consistent
2019-04-05T09:08:45 < invzim> reprogrammed it a zillion times during debugging
2019-04-05T09:09:42 < invzim> I have not looked at power usage yet as it's a usb device that is bus powered, but will dig out a 'usb meter'
2019-04-05T09:10:07 < invzim> but voltages look good on board
2019-04-05T09:10:22 < invzim> and the odd thing is stuff seems to work apart from one function
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2019-04-05T09:12:50 < invzim> yeah, that's actually a good idea
2019-04-05T09:13:02 < invzim> to rule out pcb / supporting components
2019-04-05T09:13:31 < invzim> glad I picked up a tip to have at least two prototypes for odd cases like this and do a/b testing
2019-04-05T09:15:04 < invzim> even odder, this is quite 'trusted' code - found it when I wanted to do an extra check before enabling level 2 readout protection :)
2019-04-05T09:15:32 < invzim> and it's not really a prototype, but first out of a batch of assembled boards
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2019-04-05T11:06:28 < englishman> EXTIRQ: I believe all the exti lines are and'ed together before they get to the interrupt controller, so it doesn't know or care which port they came from
2019-04-05T11:06:40 < englishman> check the reference manual for how exti lines are connected
2019-04-05T11:09:46 < EXTIRQ> englishman: "Up to 140 GPIOs can be connected to the 16 external interrupt lines". The thing is, the discovery board goes from ports A-D and pins 0-15 for each port. I thought/hoped it would tell me which associated port instead of just the pin.
2019-04-05T11:10:11 < EXTIRQ> I've got a sort of a workaround, but it's more of a hack and I am not sure it is a guarantee.
2019-04-05T11:12:10 < englishman> where you check which port it came from?
2019-04-05T11:12:55 < englishman> that's exactly how it works, 16 exti lines for the 16 pins of each port
2019-04-05T11:19:29 < EXTIRQ> englishman: Yeah, that's how I'm divvying it up, so EXTI2_IRQn I assign for every pin on port C, EXTI0_IRQn = port A... But when the the IRQ occurs and EXTI2_IRQHandler is called, I then call HAL_GPIO_EXTI_IRQHandler(GPIO_PIN_6), it doesn't know anything about the port.
2019-04-05T11:20:24 < EXTIRQ> ... that HAL has a _weak callback which I implement which gets passed that pin, but it still knows nothing about which port/EXTIn
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2019-04-05T11:44:56 < EXTIRQ> Hmm, just now seeing reference to LL_SYSCFG for EXTI. I'll look more closely when I wake up.
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2019-04-05T12:06:12 < jly> i like elephants and god likes elephants 
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2019-04-05T12:22:53 < zyp> that's not enough context to give advice
2019-04-05T12:24:07 < zyp> with one master and an arbitrary number of slaves, it should be fairly easy, master would be managing who gets to speak when
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2019-04-05T12:25:11 < zyp> only potential challenge is if the master needs to be able to scan the bus for slaves
2019-04-05T12:25:37 < zyp> yes, ground is also needed
2019-04-05T12:26:04 < zyp> are you explicitly setting the slave addresses, or are you planning to dynamically assign them?
2019-04-05T12:28:19 < zyp> what is this for?
2019-04-05T12:29:58 < zyp> so just plain gpio?
2019-04-05T12:30:19 < zyp> is there any reason you're not just using off the shelf io expanders then?
2019-04-05T12:30:23 < day> why 4?
2019-04-05T12:30:29 < day> data, clk, gnd
2019-04-05T12:31:37 < zyp> how's the physical aspect here? would each unit be a separate enclosure connected through a possibly long cable?
2019-04-05T12:32:03 < day> ah i see
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2019-04-05T12:32:41 < day> i thought the coppler would just isolate the main part of the board from a small resilient bus driver board
2019-04-05T12:33:25 < zyp> okay, so potentially long cables?
2019-04-05T12:34:59 < day> 232 is speced up to around 10m iirc
2019-04-05T12:35:08 < day> 485 goes faaar
2019-04-05T12:35:12 < zyp> I would forget about midi and look at RS485, CAN or ethernet
2019-04-05T12:36:02 < zyp> if you use CAN you don't have to do polling, you can just have each slave notify about updates
2019-04-05T12:36:22 < day> lots of uses
2019-04-05T12:37:13 < zyp> physically, CAN is pretty similar to RS485, it's just that it has a defined outcome when one node transfers 1 at the same time as another node is transferring 0
2019-04-05T12:37:42 < zyp> logically, CAN is sending frames with address, payload and checksum instead of plain bytes
2019-04-05T12:38:15 < zyp> it's not, you just get a microcontroller with a CAN peripheral and it handles everything for you
2019-04-05T12:38:32 < zyp> yes
2019-04-05T12:39:49 < zyp> the advantage of CAN is that you don't need a master coordinating who gets to transfer when, the CAN peripheral is monitoring the bus and all nodes can transfer whenever it's not busy
2019-04-05T12:40:55 < zyp> if two nodes starts to transfer at exactly the same time, the packet with the lower address will win out and the node sending the other packet will back off and retry later
2019-04-05T12:40:59 < zyp> shame
2019-04-05T12:41:08 < zyp> haha
2019-04-05T12:41:21 < day> Haohmaru: the xmegas dont have CAN? o0
2019-04-05T12:41:27 < zyp> well, this is ##stm32, and most stm32s have CAN, save for the cheapest ones
2019-04-05T12:41:38 < day> im pretty sure so do the xmegas
2019-04-05T12:42:26 < day> odd
2019-04-05T12:43:34 < zyp> that's unrelated
2019-04-05T12:44:33 < zyp> yes
2019-04-05T12:44:55 < qyx> can is cool
2019-04-05T12:45:26 < qyx> stm32f042 is probably the cheapest one with can
2019-04-05T12:46:07 < zyp> qyx, got one of those on my desk doing can :)
2019-04-05T12:46:25 < day> looks like the only atmels with CAN are AVR32's o.o
2019-04-05T12:46:33 < zyp> Haohmaru, well, you could always hook up an external CAN controller through SPI or something
2019-04-05T12:46:55 < zyp> day, also some AT90CAN-something, or whatever it was called
2019-04-05T12:47:09 < zyp> old AVR8-thing, I played with that 10+ years ago
2019-04-05T12:47:20 < day> zyp: i see
2019-04-05T12:47:43 < rajkosto> i need thermally conductive 0.5mm sticky spong
2019-04-05T12:47:46 < zyp> Haohmaru, nobody's suggesting it either
2019-04-05T12:48:05 < zyp> if you're gonna change mcu, change to a real one :p
2019-04-05T12:48:18 < zyp> yes
2019-04-05T12:49:30 < day> wont you need an external driver anyways for the bus?
2019-04-05T12:49:45 < day> i doubt the chip itself can deliver the necessary power, can they?
2019-04-05T12:50:10 < zyp> yes, you need a transceiver, but that's the case for RS485 too
2019-04-05T12:50:46 < day> yes, what i mean is, arent there external CAN modules that include the transceiver?
2019-04-05T12:51:01 < zyp> day, yeah, I believe so
2019-04-05T12:51:19 < zyp> MCP25625 for instance
2019-04-05T12:51:21 < day> if you need an external part anyways then might as well do it all externally, thus you wouldnt really be at a disadvantage by using the xmega
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2019-04-05T12:58:27 < zyp> correct
2019-04-05T13:01:26 < zyp> if you used a real MCU, the UART peripheral would handle it automatically for you :p
2019-04-05T13:02:45 < zyp> because nobody needs that
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2019-04-05T13:38:40 < karlp>   EXTIRQ you're doing it wrong. you don't get to assign exti0 for port A. it's for pin0 on all ports.
2019-04-05T13:41:42 < karlp> I love hhow haohhmaru is so deadset on sticking with atmel, even if they're chasnging parts
2019-04-05T13:42:48 < karlp> and even though they don't need the feature they say the need for what they say they want, they're refusing to use teh parts that are the reason they're even here.
2019-04-05T13:45:35 < karlp> so are you using same already?
2019-04-05T13:45:43 < karlp> and if so, why are you still harpðing on about xmega?
2019-04-05T13:47:34 < karlp> heh, just had a pull request merged from april 2015
2019-04-05T13:47:51 < zyp> haha
2019-04-05T13:49:15 < kakimir> anyone done CRC check thingy?
2019-04-05T13:49:21 < kakimir> for flash
2019-04-05T13:49:49 < kakimir> I just wonder how does the environment, files etc. work with it
2019-04-05T13:50:03 < kakimir> is the CRC generated in elf or hex
2019-04-05T13:50:11 < zyp> it what?
2019-04-05T13:50:13 < zyp> what CRC?
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2019-04-05T13:50:22 < karlp> nxp shit fuckj off
2019-04-05T13:50:27 < kakimir> oh wrong channel
2019-04-05T13:50:35 < karlp> crc in vector table
2019-04-05T13:50:39 < kakimir> dis is avr stuffs
2019-04-05T13:50:54 < karlp> fuck off harder :)
2019-04-05T13:51:23 < jadew> my ksger soldering station just arrived
2019-04-05T13:52:58 < kakimir> not toys
2019-04-05T13:53:01 < karlp> it's not that, it's morethe "we know this channel has the best people, but we're too lame to use the best tools too, so we ask them for help with our avr shit"
2019-04-05T13:53:40 < kakimir> I saw Haohmaru so I was certain I was tuned in right channel
2019-04-05T13:54:07 < kakimir> I ask all the dumb questions and it's not limited to any tool
2019-04-05T13:56:44 < jadew> so... the ksger - much better than my fx-888
2019-04-05T13:57:09 < jadew> the handle is shit
2019-04-05T13:57:47 < jadew> had to open it up to bend some contacts a little more (the temperature reading was all over the place before that)
2019-04-05T14:00:07 < jadew> heats up in about 3-4 seconds
2019-04-05T14:09:27 < kakimir> you got pro gear
2019-04-05T14:10:17 < kakimir> ts100 is good semipro
2019-04-05T14:10:25 < kakimir> get 24VDC to it
2019-04-05T14:10:56 < kakimir> cost same than basic handle type iron from utilities shop
2019-04-05T14:11:46 < kakimir> if yo don't count psu that doubles the price
2019-04-05T14:12:47 < karlp> which you should, because it's useless without it :)
2019-04-05T14:13:18 < rajkosto>  everybody has a 18V laptop psu laying around tho
2019-04-05T14:13:31 < rajkosto> i got like 3
2019-04-05T14:14:19 < rajkosto> i dont like the TS100 because of the very long iron
2019-04-05T14:14:23 < rajkosto> lose precision
2019-04-05T14:14:32 < rajkosto> TS80 better even tho smaller and more expensive
2019-04-05T14:16:28 < rajkosto> the TS100 has all that fancy shit
2019-04-05T14:16:46 < rajkosto> you just give it 12-24V DC input
2019-04-05T14:16:49 < rajkosto> it modulates
2019-04-05T14:17:01 < jadew> I understand the TSXXx is less powerful than the one I got
2019-04-05T14:17:07 < jadew> so... why not get this one?
2019-04-05T14:17:18 < rajkosto> Haohmaru, TS100 is the handle with the OLED display and shit
2019-04-05T14:17:27 < rajkosto> it comes with a few iron bits
2019-04-05T14:17:34 < jadew> kakimir, it's far from pro, but I think it'll do the job
2019-04-05T14:18:33 < jadew> for sure
2019-04-05T14:18:54 < rajkosto> tbh i might even get the stationary box type iron for 50$ vs the TS100 cuz i dislike the iron length that much
2019-04-05T14:19:11 < rajkosto> https://www.banggood.com/KSGER-V2_1S-T12-Digital-Temperature-Controller-Soldering-Station-Soldering-Iron-Tips-T12-K-p-1338117.html?cur_warehouse=CN this one
2019-04-05T14:19:20 < jadew> that's the one I got
2019-04-05T14:19:31 < rajkosto> tips are cheaper too (standardized hakko clones)
2019-04-05T14:19:56 < rajkosto> but make sure to get exactly that one because the same box and OLED can be used but internals are much shittier inside by other "chinese vendors"
2019-04-05T14:21:04 < rajkosto> like the one that just has a bootleg apple laptop charge inside for the psu
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2019-04-05T14:22:57 < jadew> I have yet to find a way into the menu
2019-04-05T14:23:13 < rajkosto> doesnt the dial click in
2019-04-05T14:23:15 < rajkosto> hold click
2019-04-05T14:24:01 < rajkosto> of coursae
2019-04-05T14:24:07 < jadew> rajkosto, thanks
2019-04-05T14:24:10 < jadew> it's in chinese :D
2019-04-05T14:24:14 < rajkosto> all stm32 controlled i think (ts100 and ts80 are too)
2019-04-05T14:24:42 < invzim> Haohmaru: so transplanted a new stm32 to the board with issues, and everything works - so flaky pcb/support components is less likely
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2019-04-05T14:31:14 < rajkosto> flux ?
2019-04-05T14:41:36 < invzim> Haohmaru: yeah, moving the suspected bad chip to a new board
2019-04-05T14:41:54 < invzim> the thing that bugs me is that the chip works fine with the normal app
2019-04-05T14:42:05 < invzim> it's just one damn function, after a reset that fails
2019-04-05T14:42:34 < invzim> and it's not just any function, it's aes256 decrypt so kind of essential :)
2019-04-05T14:44:01 < invzim> software
2019-04-05T14:44:17 < invzim> https://github.com/kokke/tiny-AES-c
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2019-04-05T14:59:13 < day> invzim: im impressed that you managed to narrow it down to a single function. how many days did that take? :p
2019-04-05T14:59:31 < zyp> invzim, fails how?
2019-04-05T14:59:55 < day> have you tried running the function at a slower clock rate?
2019-04-05T15:00:10 < zyp> day, when something fails, it should be fairly easy to narrow down where it fails by the symptoms it exhibits
2019-04-05T15:00:50 < zyp> given that it's deterministic :)
2019-04-05T15:00:56 < invzim> decrypt function returns different value than normal
2019-04-05T15:01:07 < zyp> but always the same?
2019-04-05T15:01:17 < invzim> not sure, as the input will always be different
2019-04-05T15:01:35 < zyp> that's not how you debug :)
2019-04-05T15:01:42 < day> well i guess he is lucky in that the error seems to happen on each execution of the function
2019-04-05T15:01:42 < invzim> iknow :)
2019-04-05T15:02:11 < invzim> translplanting suspected odd mcu to a fresh board now
2019-04-05T15:02:23 < invzim> well, the odd thing it only happens after a reset
2019-04-05T15:02:46 < invzim> so yah, after transplanting I will focus more on what/how I feed it
2019-04-05T15:03:04 < zyp> any kind of reset or only power-on-reset?
2019-04-05T15:03:05 < invzim> but still odd that it's 1 in 4 chips
2019-04-05T15:03:14 < invzim> soft reset
2019-04-05T15:03:45 < zyp> 1 in 4 as in literally only one chip, or 5 out of 20?
2019-04-05T15:04:50 < invzim> well, I have a 100 boards made - I don't want to solder on jtag connectors on all of them :)
2019-04-05T15:04:58 < invzim> one single chip
2019-04-05T15:06:38 < zyp> you know, if you went with tag-connect, you wouldn't have to solder jtag connectors on all of them :p
2019-04-05T15:06:40 < day> paid closed beta release to the rescue~
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2019-04-05T15:29:31 < kakimir> you realized pogo pins can be used for programmings
2019-04-05T15:31:54  * con3 got multimaster spi going
2019-04-05T15:34:19 < con3> eh quick question ( think I've asked this before) when using the wwdg I would need to manually refresh the wwdg in the code using HAL_WWDG_Refresh(&hwwdg); So I'll have a butt ton of those in my code? I can't just pop it somewhere and have the cpu handle refreshing?
2019-04-05T15:34:47 < con3> example code isn't very helpful
2019-04-05T15:36:09 < rajkosto> just have it in your main loop ?
2019-04-05T15:36:20 < rajkosto> the whole point is to reboot if your code is stuck somewhere
2019-04-05T15:38:50 < con3> rajkosto: I have a lot of code that relies on external events, interrupts and such. So I don't have some while loop running. 
2019-04-05T15:38:58 < con3> Haohmaru: yep, windowed watchdog :)
2019-04-05T15:41:30 < karlp> con3: the whole _point_ of a watchdog like that is that you know when you're still working.
2019-04-05T15:41:45 < karlp> if you're just going to stick it in an irq off on the side, all you're testing are that your irq handler was installed.
2019-04-05T15:44:52 < con3> karlp: I completly agree with you, so generally you manually refresh the watchdog throughout your code? I want to ensure that tasks don't hang, like lengthy sdcard writes but on the other hand that external events don't trigger the wwdg constantly or some random infinite loop. It just feels insane to pop the wwdg refresh through my code manually (but that could just be cause I haven't used it)
2019-04-05T15:46:35 < con3> Haohmaru: Thank you, I'm going to think about this and the implementation for a bit and come back with some more questions a bit later. Still wrapping my head around this damn watchdog
2019-04-05T15:48:20 < karlp> con3: you absolutely want "random infinite loops" to trigger.
2019-04-05T15:48:28 < karlp> and yes, you absolutely kick the dog in your own code.
2019-04-05T15:48:44 < karlp> you are the only one who knows the checkpoints at which you can say your code is still functioning properly.
2019-04-05T15:48:55 < emeryth> con3: http://www.ganssle.com/watchdogs.htm
2019-04-05T15:49:03 < karlp> ^^^ good advbice
2019-04-05T15:49:10 < karlp> wsa jsut going to try and dig up one of those guys 
2019-04-05T15:49:32 < con3> thanks emeryth :)
2019-04-05T15:49:39 < karlp> I personally don'ðt use the window watchdog, just the iwdg.
2019-04-05T15:50:01 < karlp> windowed is for the case when you have very fixed timed stuff you want to watch.
2019-04-05T15:50:19 < con3> karlp and Haohmaru thanks for all the help! I'll pop back in a bit later.
2019-04-05T15:50:31 < con3> karlp: I might switch to iwdg
2019-04-05T15:50:39 < karlp> remember also, a watchdog doesn't magically fix things. you can reset, but if you have shit code you can just keep reseting
2019-04-05T15:50:59 < karlp> but if you have a bootloader for instance, that means you keep getting a chance to break in and boot sometthing bettter :)
2019-04-05T15:51:30 < karlp> (if you get silly fancy, yuour bootloader can even count successive watchdog resets and decide to stop booting your software)
2019-04-05T15:51:43 < karlp> I wouldn't do it on a single watchdog
2019-04-05T15:51:53 < karlp> but thtat's style and choice I guess :)
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2019-04-05T16:03:02 < con3> "mine informs the police" -> what the heck are you building
2019-04-05T16:03:15 < con3> yeah I don't have a custom bootloader, still want to look into that though
2019-04-05T16:03:39 < con3> I'm going to read up on the link and come back later, maybe I'll switch to an iwdg
2019-04-05T16:10:19  * con3 needs to learn about writing custom bootloaders
2019-04-05T16:13:47 -!- benishor [~benny@188.24.159.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2019-04-05T16:16:39 < con3> oh wow my cmsis register defs are wrong
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2019-04-05T16:41:30 < con3> cube is generating the cmsis register definitions incorrectly for the spi
2019-04-05T16:42:27 < con3> heh.
2019-04-05T17:02:10 < dongs> sup
2019-04-05T17:02:19 < dongs> lol cube
2019-04-05T17:02:44 < dongs> so... if i wanna do simple USB on F0... what can i do?
2019-04-05T17:02:47 < dongs> without cube
2019-04-05T17:02:54 < dongs> F030 type stuff
2019-04-05T17:02:57 < Steffanx> Ask zyp :P
2019-04-05T17:03:04 < dongs> yeah... but i'd need to port his shit to C
2019-04-05T17:04:31 < dongs> updating keil to 5.27... they better have fixed lag in uVision or else this is the last version im paying for
2019-04-05T17:04:40 < Thorn> f030 has usb?
2019-04-05T17:04:40 < dongs> gonna switch to visualgdb or someshit
2019-04-05T17:04:53 < dongs> oh im thinking 040 then
2019-04-05T17:04:59 < dongs> ive been using 042 in a bunc hof projects
2019-04-05T17:05:00 < dongs> cuz its cheap
2019-04-05T17:06:30 < Thorn> dongs btw do you know why g0 is still not available in China (or maybe it is?)
2019-04-05T17:06:39 < dongs> the usb-pd shit?
2019-04-05T17:06:42 < dongs> not sure
2019-04-05T17:06:46 < dongs> its too new, nobody actually uses it
2019-04-05T17:06:49 < dongs> despite ST wanting people to
2019-04-05T17:07:03 < Thorn> lcsc: 0 hits, aliexpress: 0 hits
2019-04-05T17:08:26 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/ILpc2JD
2019-04-05T17:11:23 < Steffanx> Its not cloned yet
2019-04-05T17:21:57 < englishman> the usb pd seems like a joke
2019-04-05T17:22:06 < englishman> basically the same as their IRDA shit
2019-04-05T17:22:15 < englishman> then the rest is all HAL software
2019-04-05T17:23:47 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o englishman] by ChanServ
2019-04-05T17:23:48 -!- mode/##stm32 [+b *!*@128.243.2.33] by englishman
2019-04-05T17:23:48 -!- Laurenceb was kicked from ##stm32 by englishman [Laurenceb]
2019-04-05T17:25:20 < con3> I nearly clicked it, thought it was something about lcsc and the g0
2019-04-05T17:27:41 < Steffanx> It wasnt too bad. Just the wrong timing for mr lb
2019-04-05T17:29:02 <@englishman> he hasn't posted any stm32 content in weeks
2019-04-05T17:29:14 <@englishman> just his dumb internet circlejerk shit
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2019-04-05T17:33:17 < con3> lol, I thought about it yesterday. The only time I saw a post from him, it was some really random stuff
2019-04-05T17:33:31  * con3 has stopped clicking on those images
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2019-04-05T17:59:09 < dongs> lol
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2019-04-05T18:25:28 < aandrew>   https://www.instructables.com/id/Credit-Card-Sized-Deauther-With-Oled-Screen is a shitty version but I could see some real uses for a small inconspicuous deauther
2019-04-05T18:30:32 -!- con3 [~kvirc@ml.sun.ac.za] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.9.3 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/]
2019-04-05T18:30:39 < emeryth> uses other than being a script kiddie?
2019-04-05T18:31:42 < emeryth> also even china has been at it for a while https://www.aliexpress.com/item/D-duino-B-V2-ESP8266-1-3OLED-Arduino-NodeMCU-DIY-electronic-diy-kit-lcd-DIY-electronic/32812394963.html
2019-04-05T18:36:29 < kakimir> https://elepaja.fi/telegram/media/AgADBAAD4bExG521OVG9H4wx7jqKCSsgsRoABPo8HfhNAkdcVgkAAgI.jpg
2019-04-05T18:37:44 -!- sterna [~Adium@h-90-120.A137.corp.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2019-04-05T18:40:06 < dongs> wthe hells is a deauther
2019-04-05T18:40:48 < dongs> oh somse esp1488 hax
2019-04-05T18:40:59 < aandrew> nah not specific to esp
2019-04-05T18:41:10 < aandrew> it just forcibly knocks everyone off an AP
2019-04-05T18:41:22 < dongs> who the fuck uses 2.4ghz wifi in 2019
2019-04-05T18:41:42 < aandrew> all those fucking free wifi hotspots with all the kiddies watching netflix cartoons when I'm trying to get shit done while my kid's doing his activity
2019-04-05T18:41:55 < aandrew> knock 'em all off so the bandwidth is avail for me
2019-04-05T18:41:57 < dongs> ban jewflix
2019-04-05T18:42:07 < Cracki> I have my internet of shit stuff on 2.4 ghz, doesn't need more
2019-04-05T18:42:27 < Cracki> >kid's doing his "activity"
2019-04-05T18:42:34 < aandrew> yeah, I put the chromecast for the tv on 2.4, kid's laptops and shit all on 2.4. my computer on the 5ghz
2019-04-05T18:42:41 < jpa-> >aandrew needing wifi to take a dump
2019-04-05T18:42:48 < aandrew> lol nah I have cell for that
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2019-04-05T19:29:46 < rajkosto> do the deauthers work if you dont have the wifi password
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2019-04-05T19:49:37 < Cracki> apparently deauth packets need no encryption at all
2019-04-05T19:50:31 < rajkosto> fan-tastic
2019-04-05T19:50:54 < Cracki> maybe stations can ignore unencrypted packets
2019-04-05T19:52:24 < Cracki> hm, apparently deauth is part of a layer that's always unencrypted? some random dude in a random thread on forums.kali.org says so
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2019-04-05T19:53:43 < Cracki> Management Frame Protection (.11w) is a thing
2019-04-05T19:56:42 -!- sk_tandt [~sk_tandt@net-5-88-141-17.cust.vodafonedsl.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-04-05T19:56:53 < Cracki> now I want a handheld signal strength meter to locate whoever sends such packets
2019-04-05T20:01:02 -!- benishor [~benishor@95.85.48.123] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-05T20:01:19 < mawk> an iranian guy I don't know just spent an hour explaining how he did the iranian revolution, then left
2019-04-05T20:10:43 < karlp> 11w is widesrepad these days, but yeah, deauthing used to be dumb easy.
2019-04-05T20:22:11 < friendofafriend> Kind of think deauth without the key is still pretty widespread.
2019-04-05T20:23:09 < friendofafriend> And gosh it's handy.  Before 802.11r, I was deauthing clients from distant APs and moving them to APs where they had better RSSI.
2019-04-05T20:23:42 < friendofafriend> Otherwise clients will tend to stick to the distant AP, instead of properly roam
2019-04-05T20:23:45 -!- m4ssi [~massi@host138-130-static.62-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-04-05T20:36:57 < Cracki> kek
2019-04-05T20:37:24 < Cracki> "you" meaning the APs you have control over, or just random act of kindness?
2019-04-05T20:38:40 < friendofafriend> Good boyo stuff.
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2019-04-05T21:16:02 < catphish> lol
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2019-04-05T21:38:21 < Steffanx> Good friend you are.
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2019-04-05T21:41:46 < qyx> hello friends
2019-04-05T21:42:00 < qyx> how are your brexits going
2019-04-05T21:44:44 < catphish> i put oil in my petrol today, i think my car's gonna smell like an amazing lawnmower
2019-04-05T21:45:29 < Steffanx> hm why?
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2019-04-05T21:46:07 < mawk> Steffanx: because who doesn't love that smell
2019-04-05T21:49:20 < bitmask> woot woot
2019-04-05T21:49:26 < bitmask> real job interview on wednesday
2019-04-05T21:50:00 < mawk> for which company
2019-04-05T21:50:19 < mawk> the iranian said he loves netherlands Steffanx 
2019-04-05T21:50:22 < mawk> you should be proud
2019-04-05T21:50:48 < bitmask> no one youve ever heard of, they do mobile apps, looks like specifically for delivery/logistics stuff, I think they might be kinda new
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2019-04-05T21:51:17 < catphish> Steffanx: because this engine requires a lot of lubrication, it's good for it
2019-04-05T21:51:26 < bitmask> it will be my first job so even if it sucks I can get some resume experience
2019-04-05T21:51:47 < catphish> it's optional, but i like the smell, so hoping it's noticeable
2019-04-05T21:51:52 < mawk> you're going to do just programming bitmask ?
2019-04-05T21:51:53 < Steffanx> what car is this?
2019-04-05T21:52:01 < catphish> Steffanx: mazda RX8
2019-04-05T21:52:09 < Steffanx> yay bitmask
2019-04-05T21:52:10 < bitmask> yea, thats my main area, I just recently got into EE stuff 
2019-04-05T21:52:13 < Steffanx> full time ?
2019-04-05T21:52:15 < bitmask> yea
2019-04-05T21:52:16 < catphish> one of only 2 cars with a rotary engine i believe
2019-04-05T21:53:02 < bitmask> I hope there arent a lot of people being interviewed :/
2019-04-05T21:54:06 < Steffanx> Just tell em about ##stm32 and we'll tell them how awesome you are :P
2019-04-05T21:54:24 -!- SolderBlob1 [~SolderBlo@95.174.67.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2019-04-05T21:54:25 < bitmask> haha, I hope none of em hang out in here :P
2019-04-05T21:54:41 < bitmask> encrypt(bitmask)
2019-04-05T22:23:18  * banana overhears the conversation
2019-04-05T22:23:22 < banana>  > . >
2019-04-05T22:24:58 -!- con3 [~kvirc@ml.sun.ac.za] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-05T22:31:12  * banana sends good luck to bitmask
2019-04-05T22:31:21 < bitmask> ty
2019-04-05T22:31:29 < banana> :D
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2019-04-05T22:50:01 < marble_visions> bitmask: good luck!
2019-04-05T22:50:07 < bitmask> ty
2019-04-05T22:50:47 -!- sk_tandt_ [~sk_tandt@net-5-88-141-17.cust.vodafonedsl.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds]
2019-04-05T22:51:21 < marble_visions> and remember that if dongs is interviewing you, keil/armcc is the best, and you've never heard of gcc (jk dongs, don't get mad pls)
2019-04-05T22:57:38  * jpa- calls in to recommend bitmask
2019-04-05T22:58:02 < jpa-> hmm.. they didn't appreaciate the call in the middle of friday night
2019-04-05T22:58:04 < bitmask> :)
2019-04-05T23:00:18 < Steffanx> since when its night in bitmaskland?
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2019-04-05T23:50:03 < con3> bitmask: got an interview?
2019-04-05T23:50:14 < con3> seems like I joined a lil late :p
2019-04-05T23:50:38 < bitmask> heh
2019-04-05T23:50:43 < bitmask> yea
2019-04-05T23:51:56  * con3 hands bitmask a goodluck potato
2019-04-05T23:52:02 < con3> how long until the interview?
2019-04-05T23:52:14 < bitmask> wednesday afternoon
2019-04-05T23:53:07 < con3> oh wow that's still a bit :) thought it was in a hour or two
2019-04-05T23:53:42 < bitmask> I just scheduled it today
2019-04-05T23:54:43 < con3> had a interview for my first job a while back and my friend who works at the company thought it would be cool to tell his boss I do machine learning
2019-04-05T23:54:46 < con3> I dont
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2019-04-05T23:56:51 < karlp> friendofafriend:yeah, there's some contrib scripts I've seen for openwrt that use deauthh to steeer people because of 11r being so busted, but it's also different when you're on the AP, vs just being another STA deauthhing
--- Day changed Sat Apr 06 2019
2019-04-06T00:03:07 < mawk> I made a friend that was about to learn arduino learn stm32 instead
2019-04-06T00:03:23 < mawk> I deserve a medal
2019-04-06T00:06:15  * karlp hands mawk a medal
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2019-04-06T00:22:03 < friendofafriend> Ended up cobbling together an SBC with USB WLAN interfaces running OpenWRT.  Worked fine, a little weird looking.
2019-04-06T00:23:17 < EXTIRQ> englishman: ok, I've gotten a closer view of how EXTI and Ports/Pins are connected according to en.DM00031020.pdf page 382 (12.2.5 External interrupt/event line mapping)... and it just looks plain wrong...
2019-04-06T00:23:57 < EXTIRQ> The doc shows for EXTI0 as an example, that all ports A..n go through EXTI0 for pins 0.
2019-04-06T00:24:21 < EXTIRQ> EXTI6 would house all ports for pin 6.
2019-04-06T00:25:00 < EXTIRQ> But HAL_GPIO_EXTI_IRQHandler only passes the pin, when it should be the port.
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2019-04-06T00:26:27 < EXTIRQ> Actually, that handler should still receive both pin & port since it knows nothing about which IRQ was called.
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2019-04-06T00:30:17 < EXTIRQ> HAL_GPIO_WritePin or ReadPin both take the port and pin. I have no understanding why the IRQ only know of the pin and not the port.
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2019-04-06T00:44:38 < karlp> try reading what you wrote yourself
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2019-04-06T00:58:12 < EXTIRQ> karp: I had. I read it over and over and actually just now posted on the st Q&A: https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X0000AeYFF6SQO/halgpioextiirqhandler-pin-or-port
2019-04-06T00:58:23 < EXTIRQ> sorry, "karlp"
2019-04-06T00:58:48 < EXTIRQ> I even re-read what I wrote before submitting it and it sounds like I'm missing something.
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2019-04-06T01:03:17 <@englishman> EXTIRQ: there aren't different extis for each port
2019-04-06T01:03:22 <@englishman> but there is NO knowledge of what port it's associated with.
2019-04-06T01:03:25 <@englishman> this is correct
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2019-04-06T01:04:03 < zyp> isn't there? I thought you could set that in SYSCFG or something
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2019-04-06T01:05:06 <@englishman> there could be via some register state buffer but afaik exti is exti
2019-04-06T01:05:34 <@englishman> feel free to prove me wrong I'm really not sure
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2019-04-06T01:06:05 < EXTIRQ> Wait, what? I thought "en.DM00031020.pdf page 382 (12.2.5 External interrupt/event line mapping)" was the proof.
2019-04-06T01:06:33 < EXTIRQ> "proof" that there are different extis for each port.
2019-04-06T01:07:46 < EXTIRQ> sorry, "each pin", not port.
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2019-04-06T01:07:49 < zyp> ah, yeah, SYSCFG_EXTICR0..4
2019-04-06T01:09:11 < EXTIRQ> yeah, I think I pointed out the "LL_SYSCFG..." before knocking out earlier.
2019-04-06T01:10:14 < zyp> so you've got 16 EXTI lines, each EXTI line can be mapped to one of the ports
2019-04-06T01:10:38 < zyp> so EXTIn can be mapped to Pxn for any x
2019-04-06T01:10:40 < EXTIRQ> Hmm, you're saying "ports" too.
2019-04-06T01:10:44 < invzim> the plot thickens, with -O0 and -Og, the suspected faulty chip fails aes256 decrypt in all scenarios
2019-04-06T01:11:08 < zyp> EXTIRQ, A, B, C and so on are ports, each port has 16 pins
2019-04-06T01:11:37 < zyp> EXTI0 can be configured to be triggered by PA0, PB0, PC0, …
2019-04-06T01:11:52 < EXTIRQ> The doc is showing a diagram for EXTI0, where it has mapped PA0, PB0...PI0. Yeah, I know about.... what hold, seeing your last sentence...
2019-04-06T01:12:01 < zyp> so you can have PB0 trigger EXTI0, PA1 trigger EXTI1 and PC2 trigger EXTI2 and so on
2019-04-06T01:12:14 < EXTIRQ> Right.
2019-04-06T01:12:30 < zyp> but you can not have PD3 trigger EXTI4
2019-04-06T01:12:54 < EXTIRQ> And PB is the port and 3 is the pin, so all of those Px3 "pins" are mapped to EXTI3.
2019-04-06T01:13:02 < zyp> and you can not have both PA7 and PB7 trigger EXTIs, you need to choose one of them to trigger EXTI7
2019-04-06T01:13:22 < EXTIRQ> oooo, "one of them"????
2019-04-06T01:13:28 < zyp> yes
2019-04-06T01:13:30 < EXTIRQ> That's the kicker then, isn't it.
2019-04-06T01:13:59 < EXTIRQ> ahhh, so my Q&A post is invalid since PA0 and PB0 can NOT EVER be connected at the same time.
2019-04-06T01:14:22 < zyp> probably, I didn't read that, just joined the conversation
2019-04-06T01:14:47 < EXTIRQ> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X0000AeYFF6SQO/halgpioextiirqhandler-pin-or-port
2019-04-06T01:15:25 < zyp> yeah
2019-04-06T01:15:45 < zyp> go look at chapter 9.2.3 in the same document you mentioned
2019-04-06T01:16:02 < zyp> at least in my revision of it, that's the description of SYSCFG_EXTICR1
2019-04-06T01:16:52 < EXTIRQ> Yeah, I passed through that quickly. Didn't quite get a good look. Without reading before this response, I'm guessing based on what you said before, it will show why PA0 and PB0 will never wire up at the same time.
2019-04-06T01:17:17 < zyp> correct
2019-04-06T01:17:44 < EXTIRQ> yup, "Bits 15:0"
2019-04-06T01:17:51 < EXTIRQ> coolio. tnx for that clarity.
2019-04-06T01:21:52 < EXTIRQ> I added to that Q&A to reflect this conversation.
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2019-04-06T01:23:44 < Dako300> what environments do you all use for developing for STM32?
2019-04-06T01:23:50 < Dako300> eclipse is being a pain
2019-04-06T01:24:22 < EXTIRQ> I actually never had that particular document until englishman brought it up I think. I had en.DM00037051 previously. Don't know why I never had the "reference manual" in my collection.
2019-04-06T01:24:29 < EXTIRQ> I use VSCode in linux.
2019-04-06T01:24:58 < Dako300> does that have builtin support for STM32 debugging EXTIRQ?
2019-04-06T01:25:38 < EXTIRQ> oh god no. there's a lot of wiring up to get it all working together including extensions.
2019-04-06T01:26:03 < EXTIRQ> I'm satisfied with it for the most part now that it is fully working.
2019-04-06T01:27:45 < EXTIRQ> While I haven't worked with eclipse in a long time, with VSCode, I have to manually fill in the c_cpp_properties.json for building, tasks.json for the actual build program, and launch.json running the debugger. It's far from plug-and-play.
2019-04-06T01:27:59 < Dako300> yea that doesn't sound like fun
2019-04-06T01:28:16 < Dako300> i just want to reliably write and deploy code to the board i have, and the eclipse debugging feature just randomly broke
2019-04-06T01:28:41 < Dako300> the error message is completely blank and i can't figure out how to enable log4j on eclipse to actually output reasonable errors on the command line
2019-04-06T01:28:45 < EXTIRQ> Sure, but then masochists find things fun that are not for others.
2019-04-06T01:29:05 < Dako300> that's fair
2019-04-06T01:30:22 < EXTIRQ> I like getting into the deep-down nitty-gritty to get a full grasp on how things work which is why I'm toying around with MCUs. There are people that wouldn't even consider MCUs fun. Sorry I can't help you with your eclipse problem though.
2019-04-06T01:30:32 < Dako300> nah that's fine
2019-04-06T01:30:38 < Dako300> i'm all for getting down and dirty with stuff
2019-04-06T01:30:59 < Dako300> but this is for employment, and i'd rather not waste time trying to get stuff to work if i can help it
2019-04-06T01:31:16 < EXTIRQ> Yeah, I get that. I'm out folks.
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2019-04-06T01:31:22 < Dako300> later dude
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2019-04-06T02:02:59 < Dako300> fixed it
2019-04-06T02:03:16 < Dako300> the default debug properties were broken
2019-04-06T02:03:24 < Dako300> the path to openocd was broken
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2019-04-06T02:21:50 < jly> later on,
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2019-04-06T02:27:50 < jly> And how come batman doesn't dance anymore?
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2019-04-06T02:32:36 < jly> Laurenceb_ thanks for coming
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2019-04-06T02:42:56 < kakimir> hello pumps
2019-04-06T02:51:54 < jly> pump up kaki
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2019-04-06T03:24:04 < jly> cats
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2019-04-06T04:08:43 < mawk> zyp: can the nrf52840 work without the mbr stuff ?
2019-04-06T04:08:52 < mawk> it doesn't look open source
2019-04-06T04:09:03 < mawk> it's distributed as a blob
2019-04-06T04:14:56 < Laurenceb_> https://imgur.com/YfOiSiw
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2019-04-06T05:41:09 < mawk> is there a reason I can't flash it manually zyp ? with openocd
2019-04-06T05:41:21 < mawk> only through their DFU bootloader it works
2019-04-06T05:41:43 < mawk> manually with openocd I flashed the official signed MBR and bootloader, then over that the application at 0x1000
2019-04-06T05:41:48 < mawk> but it blinks in red when I power it
2019-04-06T05:46:38 < mawk> hmm nevermind
2019-04-06T05:46:42 < mawk> now it works
2019-04-06T05:46:50 < mawk> the only thing I changed is properly define the gcc version
2019-04-06T05:49:15 < mawk> yeah no there's something deeper
2019-04-06T05:49:20 < mawk> see when I said that st is easier
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2019-04-06T05:56:37 < mawk> yeah I must program through their tool, else it's refused
2019-04-06T05:56:41 < mawk> there must be a checksum somewhere
2019-04-06T05:57:07 < mawk> I should look at how their nrfjprog tool does it, I can't use it since I have stlink and not jlink
2019-04-06T05:59:09 < R2COM> sup guys
2019-04-06T06:05:10 < bitmask> I am terrible at taking naps
2019-04-06T06:05:19 < bitmask> I end up sleeping the rest of the day
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2019-04-06T06:14:50 < bitmask> hmm this interview place is next to a house of bounce, think we get to jump in bouncy castles on our lunch breaks?
2019-04-06T06:19:51 < mawk> ok I've done it, I should first mass erase the chip, then flash the provided MBR, then flash my program
2019-04-06T06:21:59 < mawk> it was the nasty builtin bootloader that prevented me from flashing with openocd
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2019-04-06T06:26:36 < Cracki> bootloader kills swd pins?
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2019-04-06T07:22:41 < mawk> no Cracki , I can flash
2019-04-06T07:22:45 < mawk> it's just that it doesn't boot
2019-04-06T07:22:48 < mawk> there must be a signature check
2019-04-06T07:38:29 < bitmask> anyone ever use wago connectors? 
2019-04-06T07:38:45 < bitmask> I guess they are more useful for junction boxes or whatever
2019-04-06T07:38:49 < mawk> they look useful, I could've used them for a thing or two
2019-04-06T07:38:57 < mawk> yeah, it was in my electrical box
2019-04-06T07:39:01 < mawk> too big for electronics
2019-04-06T07:39:28 < bitmask> yea, I ordered some china clones just for kicks, $1 for 10 
2019-04-06T07:39:58 < bitmask> I went a little crazy during Ali's anniversary sale
2019-04-06T07:40:38 < mawk> lol
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2019-04-06T10:18:36 -!- mode/##stm32 [+b *!~laurence@81.141.246.69] by englishman
2019-04-06T10:25:42 <@englishman> if the extis can never be ORed then the "140 interrupt lines!!" is kind of misleading
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2019-04-06T12:33:01 < zyp> mawk, what mbr stuff?
2019-04-06T12:34:17 < zyp> mawk, I'm not sure what problems you're having, I'm able to flash and debug it, not running any blobs or anything
2019-04-06T12:35:20 < zyp> and no signature either
2019-04-06T12:36:18 < zyp> but yeah, when I first got it the flash sectors with the bootloader was locked, so I had to dick around before I could erase it
2019-04-06T12:37:15 < zyp> englishman, isn't that counting peripheral IRQs and shit? not external interrupts
2019-04-06T12:37:51 <@englishman> nah exti is part of nvic
2019-04-06T12:38:05 < zyp> uh, no
2019-04-06T12:38:05 <@englishman> it was really talking about exti
2019-04-06T12:38:23 < zyp> EXTI is absolutely not part of NVIC
2019-04-06T12:45:50 <@englishman> yeah no
2019-04-06T12:45:53 <@englishman> that is correct
2019-04-06T12:46:03 <@englishman> but it certainly signals nvic
2019-04-06T12:46:08 <@englishman> to do its thing
2019-04-06T12:46:53 <@englishman> I meant it is a peripheral with its own interrupts in nvic like other periphs
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2019-04-06T14:57:38 < kakimir> hello pumps
2019-04-06T14:57:51 < kakimir> sun is shining
2019-04-06T14:58:14 < kakimir> incredible
2019-04-06T14:58:34 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SFw5DfqD6s
2019-04-06T14:58:38 < kakimir> musics
2019-04-06T15:01:22 < jadew> it occurred to me that we might be in the post technical boom era
2019-04-06T15:02:11 < jadew> I think that era ended in the 90's
2019-04-06T15:03:21 < jadew> I'm reading some technical history and people were solving interesting problems back in '65
2019-04-06T15:04:16 < jadew> by the time the 80's came about, most interesting stuff was already exhausted or done to a particular degree, at least as a proof of concept
2019-04-06T15:04:32 < jadew> the rest is just polishing that and building upon that work
2019-04-06T15:06:08 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-06T15:06:10 < kakimir> correct
2019-04-06T15:06:15 <@englishman> people said the same shit in1900
2019-04-06T15:06:28 < kakimir> good point
2019-04-06T15:06:41 < jadew> englishman, so you think we're just not seeing the interesting things yet?
2019-04-06T15:07:42 < jadew> could be, but man... the crap people were doing 70 years ago... it's fucking amazing
2019-04-06T15:08:27 < jadew> we tend to think about programming as a modern thing (post PC), but they were doing a shitload of programming back then too
2019-04-06T15:10:30 < kakimir> Saturn V
2019-04-06T15:10:32 < jadew> the bulk of the work that is being done today, is blinking LEDs and reading temperature sensors
2019-04-06T15:10:47 < kakimir> jadew: challenge yourself
2019-04-06T15:10:55 < jadew> and getting SPI to work on arduino
2019-04-06T15:11:42 < kakimir> stop playing with arduino
2019-04-06T15:11:57 < jadew> I never touched one
2019-04-06T15:12:16  * jadew is pure
2019-04-06T15:13:54 <@englishman> Arduino was gr8
2019-04-06T15:13:56 <@englishman> in 2002
2019-04-06T15:14:14 < rajkosto> arduino was a thing in 2002 ? the code sure is from that era or earlier (1998)
2019-04-06T15:14:57 < jadew> I always saw it as an intrusion, but I guess it brought more people to electronics
2019-04-06T15:15:51 < kakimir> I touched one but never used it for anything
2019-04-06T15:17:35 <@englishman> like most tarduinos
2019-04-06T15:17:49 < jadew> hah, well said
2019-04-06T15:19:20 < jadew> had an acquaintance who got one as a present, together with a bunch of sensors, LEDs, etc, his goals soon became to make a LED cube
2019-04-06T15:19:34 < jadew> never did that
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2019-04-06T16:30:50 < Thorn> FUCK SEMTECH
2019-04-06T16:31:01 < Thorn> WITH A PISTON
2019-04-06T16:31:01 < Thorn> FROM A HAUL TRUCK
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2019-04-06T16:32:29 < Thorn> when they say "we recommend that the reset pin is left floating" they actually mean it
2019-04-06T16:34:01 < Thorn> half the modules I tested went crazy (reading registers in burst mode starting from 0x01 works, nothing else does) until I set the gpio connected to reset to input
2019-04-06T16:35:46 < Thorn> I thought I had bad Chinese modules or bad solder job or something. spent almost a whole day on them, lifted QFN MCUs a few times (the upside is I think I learned how to solder them reliably)
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2019-04-06T17:30:41 < bitmask> ahoy
2019-04-06T17:31:49 < bitmask> what is your every day solder tip
2019-04-06T17:32:05 < Steffanx> Dont burn your fingers.
2019-04-06T17:32:39 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-pcs-Soldering-Kit-T18-Series-Solder-Iron-Tips-for-FX-888-Soldering-Station-and-FX8801/32851628819.html
2019-04-06T17:32:56 < bitmask> I ordered D12, D16, C1 and C2
2019-04-06T17:33:02 < bitmask> I think D16 is what I have been using
2019-04-06T17:33:32 < bitmask> oh those are only the Ds
2019-04-06T17:33:46 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Soldering-Iron-Kit-T18-C1-T18-C2-T18-C3-T18-C4-T18-C5-T18-C05-Lead/32853527684.html
2019-04-06T17:33:49 < bitmask> Cs!
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2019-04-06T17:56:56 < jadew> D12 is what I use
2019-04-06T17:58:19 < bitmask> for smd and regular stuff?
2019-04-06T17:58:29 < jadew> yeah
2019-04-06T17:58:31 < bitmask> ok thanks
2019-04-06T17:59:01 <@englishman> wow thorng
2019-04-06T17:59:02 < bitmask> any reason you dont use a chisel? Ive never used one but some videos I saw people were using em so I thought Id try em out
2019-04-06T17:59:08 <@englishman> that sux
2019-04-06T17:59:48 < jadew> bitmask, isn't that a chisel tip?
2019-04-06T18:00:00 < bitmask> the C's are, no?
2019-04-06T18:00:18 < jadew> no
2019-04-06T18:00:25 < bitmask> what are the C's called?
2019-04-06T18:00:25 < jadew> the ones you linked aren't chisel
2019-04-06T18:00:29 < jadew> not sure
2019-04-06T18:00:36 < bitmask> well thats what I saw people using
2019-04-06T18:00:58 < jadew> those are useful for drag soldering I guess, never used them myself
2019-04-06T18:01:05 < bitmask> ok
2019-04-06T18:01:15 < bitmask> so chisels are the D's?
2019-04-06T18:01:17 < jadew> you can't put the very tip of the tip flat on the board next to a component
2019-04-06T18:01:22 < jadew> yeah
2019-04-06T18:01:47 < bitmask> k
2019-04-06T18:02:08 < jadew> I also bought a D52 for my new station
2019-04-06T18:02:20 < jadew> not sure what to think about it yet
2019-04-06T18:02:55 < bitmask> that must be huge
2019-04-06T18:03:03 < jadew> it is
2019-04-06T18:03:14 < jadew> can't really heat up both a pin and the ground plane for example
2019-04-06T18:04:10 < jadew> it might work for chassis stuff tho
2019-04-06T18:11:06 < hl> So I'm writing a driver for the USB FS peripheral on a STM32L4, which works... but I want to get double buffering working, and the documentation for it frankly makes no sense at all. Has _anyone_ gotten it working or have a clue how it works?
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2019-04-06T18:40:39 < bitmask> man oh man, I really hope I get this job
2019-04-06T18:40:43 < bitmask> I want the monies
2019-04-06T18:40:50 < Steffanx> lol
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2019-04-06T18:42:46 < bitmask> I never thought I'd get my shit together so a real job with a real salary is kinda surreal. I shouldn't get my hopes up for this specific job but getting a call back is inspiring
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2019-04-06T18:45:40 < Steffanx> :)
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2019-04-06T19:02:26 < con3> Can't seem to find this in the ref manual, but if the iwdg resets the chip, does it clear all the SFR's, pretty much boots the chip back to its start state?
2019-04-06T19:02:27 < Thorn> bitmask: I recently ordered T12-DL12 from aliexpress and I'm liking it
2019-04-06T19:02:44 -!- effractu1 is now known as effractur
2019-04-06T19:03:51 < bitmask> DL12 similar to D12?
2019-04-06T19:04:10 < Thorn> similar but thicker base, better heat transfer
2019-04-06T19:04:43 < bitmask> As I said Ive been using D16 and it will be nice to try something a little smaller, lookin forward to tryin it
2019-04-06T19:05:46 < Thorn> I also rediscovered the K tip
2019-04-06T19:06:05 < Thorn> it's now my secret sauce for QFNs lol
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2019-04-06T19:14:49 < invzim> meh, dfuse thingie bluescreens when I remove readout protection via usb
2019-04-06T19:20:54 < mawk> lol
2019-04-06T19:21:01 < mawk> st doesn't have a history of great desktop programs
2019-04-06T19:21:56 < invzim> the tag-connect seems more attractive by the day :)
2019-04-06T19:22:39 < mawk> tag-connect is $$$$$$$
2019-04-06T19:26:07 < invzim> yeah, but I have 20 boards I need to reset
2019-04-06T19:26:17 < invzim> and now it looks like I'm facing 20 bluescreens..
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2019-04-06T19:33:29 < Cracki> 100 pogopins for treefiddy off aliex, a pcb to solder them into, and you basically have tagconnect
2019-04-06T19:33:59 < Cracki> maybe a 3d printed (or made from wood) template to fit your devices into
2019-04-06T19:34:40 < Steffanx> assuming your time is free
2019-04-06T19:36:14 < Cracki> people who complain about one time cost of a tagconnect _must_ have_ free time
2019-04-06T19:36:36 < Steffanx> yes
2019-04-06T19:37:18 < Cracki> random ebay result, 40 bucks
2019-04-06T19:38:36 < Cracki> still, if I had to program boards all day, I'd build a jig for that. less fuss than aiming the TC, and possibly attaching supply voltage
2019-04-06T19:40:18 < mawk> it's a piece of plastic, springs, and copper
2019-04-06T19:40:22 < mawk> how could it be $40
2019-04-06T19:40:23 < Cracki> indeed it is
2019-04-06T19:40:29 < Cracki> it's 40 because they can ask that
2019-04-06T19:41:02 < Cracki> alternative is your own jig, which takes between 5 minutes to half a day to make
2019-04-06T19:41:04 < Steffanx> Try segger. They sell the same thing for even more :P
2019-04-06T19:41:38 < mawk> To help build our library of downloadable footprints to benefit all Tag-Connect users - we are offering a FREE TAG-CONNECT CABLE to anyone who sends us a decal for a software package not yet in our library!
2019-04-06T19:41:43 < mawk> you know what to do next invzim 
2019-04-06T19:42:03 < Cracki> uh where's that from
2019-04-06T19:42:12 < mawk> the tag connect site
2019-04-06T19:42:16 < mawk> http://www.tag-connect.com/free-tag-connect-offer
2019-04-06T19:42:17 < Steffanx> all you need to do is find some obscure software package
2019-04-06T19:42:36 < Cracki> ah by sw package the mean altium, kicad, eagle, ...
2019-04-06T19:42:42 < Cracki> make your own
2019-04-06T19:43:17 < Cracki> maybe inkscape doesn't have any yet... then you can fork it and call it librescape...
2019-04-06T19:44:06 < jpa-> fritzing is still unclaimed
2019-04-06T19:55:56 < rajkosto> tag connect looks disgusting
2019-04-06T19:56:11 < rajkosto> also https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-04-06_18-56-09_QvOlujOqL.png ???
2019-04-06T19:57:57 < mawk> lol
2019-04-06T20:04:01 < Cracki> yes that site looks disgusting too
2019-04-06T20:04:31 < Cracki> I'm sure if you're desperate you can make your own compatible ones
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2019-04-06T20:16:40 < Thorn> guess what https://i.imgur.com/bMneonr.png
2019-04-06T20:18:47 < rajkosto> spread spectrum ?
2019-04-06T20:19:05 < Thorn> nope just fsk
2019-04-06T20:23:52 < rajkosto> how feasible woudl it be to make shutter glasses that use ACTUAL shutters instead of LCD
2019-04-06T20:30:54 < Steffanx> what for?
2019-04-06T20:32:22 < Steffanx> For actual 3d crap?
2019-04-06T20:33:59 < emeryth> easy, just use spinning wheels
2019-04-06T20:34:15 < Steffanx> i bet it has been done
2019-04-06T20:34:32 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleview
2019-04-06T20:34:59 < Steffanx> haha ty BrainDamage
2019-04-06T20:47:01 < Thorn> why is it transmitting continuously though
2019-04-06T20:47:24 < Thorn> isn't it supposed to stop after transmitting a packet
2019-04-06T20:49:42 < rajkosto> Steffanx, yeah 3d crap
2019-04-06T20:50:09 < rajkosto> LCDs work but they still let some light through when ON, and also, they only block 100% in the very middle straight on, on the sides you can still see through
2019-04-06T20:51:52 < BrainDamage> rotating shutters would be noisy and bulku
2019-04-06T20:53:20 < rajkosto> DSLR have large enough shutters
2019-04-06T20:53:47 < jpa-> you can just connect electrodes to eyelids
2019-04-06T20:53:48 < BrainDamage> you cannot use camera shutters
2019-04-06T20:54:06 < BrainDamage> they are not rated for hundred of thousand of operations
2019-04-06T20:54:18 < jpa-> but shutter glasses will still be crappy, LCD or not
2019-04-06T20:54:44 < jpa-> like cutting 50% of light intensity
2019-04-06T20:54:46 < rajkosto> well its the only source of ghosting 
2019-04-06T20:54:54 < rajkosto> i have 0 ghosting in the middle of the glasses
2019-04-06T20:55:11 < rajkosto> cutting 50% of light intensity is fine with strobing backlights
2019-04-06T20:55:41 < rajkosto> nvidia is dropping the 3d vision module from their drivers after 420 so might as well reinvent the whole chain
2019-04-06T20:59:39 < BrainDamage> 3d movies are horrible regardless of the tech used to display them because they are fixed focus and yet project a stereo image
2019-04-06T21:00:14 < rajkosto> yep
2019-04-06T21:00:16 < BrainDamage> while in reality as your eyes move and refocus the images in your eye change
2019-04-06T21:00:31 < rajkosto> they are mastered with a tiny separation because on a big screen that creates a decent effect but not on a small monitor
2019-04-06T21:00:51 < rajkosto> i care about 3d vision for games only and with community fixes even latest titles like sekiro and metro exodus render fine in it
2019-04-06T21:01:01 < rajkosto> you control the separation and convergence in games 
2019-04-06T21:01:23 < BrainDamage> in principle, for realtime generated content, you could do eye tracking and compensate
2019-04-06T21:01:50 < rajkosto> you get used to the optical focus not matching brain separation after a while just like you get used to HMD always having infinity focus btw
2019-04-06T21:05:01 < jpa-> maybe we'll get varying focus HMD's in a few years; liquid lenses are becoming more and more common in e.g. mobile phones
2019-04-06T21:05:22 < jpa-> either eye tracking + a global lens, or per-zone variable focus
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2019-04-06T21:07:01 < rajkosto> wasnt oculus experimenting with a low-resolution focus-changing layer in front of the screen
2019-04-06T21:07:08 < rajkosto> like movable liquids
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2019-04-06T21:13:33 < mawk> my question for nrf52 still stands, I can't have both flashing with swd and the dfu usb ?
2019-04-06T21:13:49 < mawk> but now I succeeded in making swd work on its own so it's less imporant
2019-04-06T21:13:54 < mawk> flashing via usb is still cool
2019-04-06T21:19:15 < qyx> if I wanted a big touchy LCD mounted on a wall
2019-04-06T21:19:39 < qyx> run by a somewhat embedded linux on a somewhat industrialish board
2019-04-06T21:19:49 < qyx> what do you recommend?
2019-04-06T21:20:01 < qyx> *would you
2019-04-06T21:20:25 < rajkosto> qyx, nvidia is taking preorders for 99$ TX2
2019-04-06T21:20:27 < qyx> some mipi dsi ~10" LCD with rpi would work probably
2019-04-06T21:20:35 < rajkosto> if you need 3d graphcis
2019-04-06T21:20:44 < qyx> no, I need wall mounted HMI
2019-04-06T21:20:48 < mawk> beaglebone say their boards are industrialish
2019-04-06T21:20:53 < rajkosto> https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/autonomous-machines/embedded-systems/jetson-nano/?nvid=nv-int-mn-78458
2019-04-06T21:24:25 < qyx> maybe I should just use a HDMI LCD with a vesa mounting kit
2019-04-06T21:26:59 < Steffanx> hmm us only rajkosto?
2019-04-06T21:27:02 < Steffanx> or canada
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2019-04-06T21:27:24 < rajkosto> probably, like all good things
2019-04-06T21:28:16 < Steffanx> meh
2019-04-06T21:28:17 < mawk> in iran they have educational board games, you roll a dice and if you get a quuran you go forward by 20 steps, if you get an Imam Khamenei you go forward by 50 steps, etc
2019-04-06T21:28:25 < mawk> and if you get a US flag you go back by 50 steps
2019-04-06T21:28:59 < Steffanx> ok
2019-04-06T21:29:50 < mawk> and david stars on trashcans
2019-04-06T21:30:14 < Steffanx> ok
2019-04-06T21:35:29 < PaulFertser> Has anyone tried soldering old sennheiser headphone cables? Seems to be made of steel, and I can't tin it anyhow.
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2019-04-06T21:38:41 < jpa-> zinc chloride flux sometimes works for such hard to solder materials, though it is corrosive
2019-04-06T21:39:53 < PaulFertser> How to properly clean it afterwards?
2019-04-06T21:39:58 < qyx> yeah, you can even get it as a gel
2019-04-06T21:40:43 < jpa-> warm water works fine for cleaning
2019-04-06T21:41:40 < PaulFertser> Should I even dare trying aspirin?
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2019-04-06T21:46:32 < bitmask> metal brush
2019-04-06T21:46:39 < bitmask> (I have no idea what you are talking about)
2019-04-06T21:46:53 < bitmask> oh
2019-04-06T21:46:56 < bitmask> reading helps
2019-04-06T21:53:12 < Steffanx> Happy birthday bitmask
2019-04-06T21:53:21 < bitmask> ?
2019-04-06T21:55:27 < Steffanx> You mean: ty 
2019-04-06T21:55:50 < bitmask> ty
2019-04-06T21:55:55 < bitmask> why do you think its my bday?
2019-04-06T21:57:45 < Steffanx> gut feeling.
2019-04-06T21:57:54 < bitmask> it was a month ago
2019-04-06T21:57:56 < bitmask> 3/12
2019-04-06T21:59:42 < Steffanx> Sure?
2019-04-06T22:01:19 < bitmask> oh let me think
2019-04-06T22:01:28 < bitmask> :)
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2019-04-06T22:11:38 < Thorn> turns out you have to switch the TX mode off manually, otherwise it will keep transmitting the preamble continuously(!)
2019-04-06T22:11:58 < Thorn> whose sound and justified design decision was that
2019-04-06T22:13:06 < Thorn> you can turn TX off using the Sequencer though
2019-04-06T22:19:06 < Thorn> https://i.imgur.com/QorEFc1.png
2019-04-06T22:21:29 < jadew> what are you playing with?
2019-04-06T22:21:45 < qyx> Thorn: after the packet is sent?
2019-04-06T22:21:58 < Thorn> sx1276
2019-04-06T22:22:18 < Thorn> qyx: or if you don't write any data to the fifo
2019-04-06T22:22:32 < qyx> yes, thats correct behaviour
2019-04-06T22:22:43 < qyx> you jave to prefill the fifo
2019-04-06T22:23:03 < qyx> during idle
2019-04-06T22:23:10 < Thorn> ok but why doesn't it shut TX down on PacketSent?
2019-04-06T22:23:19 < qyx> it does
2019-04-06T22:23:26 < qyx> at least sx1231
2019-04-06T22:23:56 < Thorn> 127x does not (unless you use the sequencer), I had to do it manually
2019-04-06T22:24:12 < qyx> of coirse you want to use the sequencer
2019-04-06T22:24:32 < qyx> yeah, without it it !ay be the case
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2019-04-06T22:57:01 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-04-06_21-56-30_nXYhGpFmP.png cool fuckin code
2019-04-06T22:59:11 < qyx> no worky?
2019-04-06T22:59:35 < rajkosto> copy pasted same func just changed the name
2019-04-06T22:59:36 < qyx> too widhty?
2019-04-06T22:59:38 < rajkosto> thanks lvgl
2019-04-06T23:00:32 < Steffanx> Shit happens.
2019-04-06T23:05:49 < Thorn> I'm going to run out of flash :/ 9/32KB used already
2019-04-06T23:06:08 < rajkosto> i run out of 128KB
2019-04-06T23:12:22 < qyx> Thorn: which mcu?
2019-04-06T23:13:36 < Thorn> lpc824
2019-04-06T23:14:14 < qyx> those are the low pin count ones?
2019-04-06T23:14:59 < Thorn> down to 6.8KB with -gc-sections
2019-04-06T23:15:18 < Thorn> qyx: mine is QFN32
2019-04-06T23:15:55 < Thorn> I got 60 of them on lcsc for <$50
2019-04-06T23:17:41 < Thorn> used them on several small projects already
2019-04-06T23:25:04 < kakimir> hello dope
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2019-04-07T00:14:58 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWiRLDDM74k is it any good movie?
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2019-04-07T00:22:21 < jadew> any good new movies?
2019-04-07T00:23:05 < kakimir> I doubt
2019-04-07T00:23:08 < bitmask> nope
2019-04-07T00:23:20 < kakimir> but there is good old movies I have yet to see
2019-04-07T00:23:41 < jadew> how do you know they're good if you haven't seen them yet? :)
2019-04-07T00:23:49 < bitmask> you watch the OA? show on netflix, its kinda interesting
2019-04-07T00:24:04 < jadew> it's dragged out
2019-04-07T00:24:13 < jadew> tried to watch it, it never happens
2019-04-07T00:24:52 < bitmask> it starts to pick up at the end and the second season, not a great show but I thought it was worth watching
2019-04-07T00:24:58 < aandrew> shazam is a pretty funny movie
2019-04-07T00:25:31 < bitmask> did you watch the travelers?
2019-04-07T00:26:28 < aandrew> man I'm a fucking idiot
2019-04-07T00:26:29 < jadew> yeah, tried to watch it again, not sure what I didn't like about it
2019-04-07T00:26:35 < jadew> I got to episode 5
2019-04-07T00:26:58 < aandrew> I have a jtag chain (fpga, clk gen, etc.) and the stm32 is on swd, which I combined 
2019-04-07T00:27:13 < bitmask> heh well those are the two things i watched recently, its been tough finding good stuff lately
2019-04-07T00:28:25 < jadew> yeah, there's something wrong with the movie industry
2019-04-07T00:28:32 < aandrew> I want to work on the stm32 and fpga at the same time, but of course SWDCK and TCK are the same pin on the 2x10 connector
2019-04-07T00:28:45 < aandrew> I have a FT2232 onboard that can do either, but I can't run both at the same time
2019-04-07T00:28:57 < aandrew> and I routed the shared swdck/tck on not one but two internal layers
2019-04-07T00:28:59 < rajkosto> why stm32 not on jtag
2019-04-07T00:29:01 < aandrew> so I have no good way to break it out
2019-04-07T00:29:03 < aandrew> rajkosto: I should have
2019-04-07T00:29:06 < aandrew> wasn't thinking
2019-04-07T00:29:19 < aandrew> but that would have still been a problem since I can't operate both at the same time on a shared interface
2019-04-07T00:29:21 < rajkosto> and if not on jtag then why is clk pin shared on connector
2019-04-07T00:29:30 < aandrew> I should have brought the swd swdck to a jumper
2019-04-07T00:29:30 < rajkosto> different clk
2019-04-07T00:29:50 < aandrew> rajkosto: ft2232 is onboard and can switch between jtag/swd easily, I added a 2x10 header to be able to use jlink if needed
2019-04-07T00:29:58 < aandrew> but didn't make an easy way to break it out so it's completely separate
2019-04-07T00:30:16 < aandrew> and didn't bring the shared swdck/tck out on the top or bottom layer to easily modify
2019-04-07T00:30:27 < aandrew> hence the "fuck I'm stupid" comment
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2019-04-07T00:31:34 < rajkosto> nothing to do except hold trst low while swd is operating
2019-04-07T00:31:41 < aandrew> nah I'm gonna drill out a via
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2019-04-07T00:36:56 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kbj2Zss-5GY driving musics
2019-04-07T00:37:22 < Steffanx> Go home, kakimir
2019-04-07T00:37:48 < rajkosto> he is, driving
2019-04-07T00:38:01 < kakimir> go home kakis
2019-04-07T00:38:14 < kakimir> home kakistan
2019-04-07T00:38:37 < Steffanx> Yes and let him take this awful music with him, rajkosto. Not here :P
2019-04-07T00:39:08 < kakimir> I don't know what it is about driving
2019-04-07T00:39:15 < kakimir> but shit sounds good
2019-04-07T00:39:26 < kakimir> and sophisticated music sounds lame
2019-04-07T00:39:55 < Steffanx> is it because you're car only does bass and that's all you here now? 
2019-04-07T00:39:56 < jadew> at what minute does the music start?
2019-04-07T00:45:11 < jadew> anyone got one of those keysight GPIB adapters? any idea what's the throughput?
2019-04-07T00:46:00 < kakimir> moneydongles
2019-04-07T00:49:30 < kakimir> what are you planning jadew
2019-04-07T00:50:15 < jadew> I made a GPIB controller 5 years ago and I want to make another one now, but I want to make it at least as good as the keysight ones
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2019-04-07T00:50:48 < kakimir> oh wow
2019-04-07T00:51:03 < aandrew> heh, GPIB is the interface that just won't leave
2019-04-07T00:51:08 < aandrew> kind of like MIDI or RS232 even
2019-04-07T00:51:11 < jadew> heh, yeah
2019-04-07T00:51:16 < kakimir> just overkill it jadew 
2019-04-07T00:51:28 < aandrew> 8 core ARM9 ought to do it
2019-04-07T00:51:28 < kakimir> remember that those commercial adapters are legacy stuff
2019-04-07T00:51:42 < kakimir> designed in like year 2000 or so
2019-04-07T00:52:11 < kakimir> I don't know but it's not exactly the most fresh stuff
2019-04-07T00:52:40 < jadew> that's true
2019-04-07T00:53:16 < kakimir> what is the spec of your older version?
2019-04-07T00:54:05 < jadew> 750 kb/s tops
2019-04-07T00:54:23 < jadew> I can do much better with this one, but I don't know how much better I should do
2019-04-07T00:54:44 < kakimir> what chip it has?
2019-04-07T00:55:02 <@englishman> mawk: 
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2019-04-07T00:55:19 < jadew> GPIB literature mentions speeds of up to 1 Mb/s, but it's very old literature
2019-04-07T00:55:27 < jadew> kakimir, some atmel stuff
2019-04-07T00:56:35 < kakimir> sam?
2019-04-07T00:57:44 < jadew> yeah
2019-04-07T00:57:59 < kakimir> just fpga it and decide how fast you want to go
2019-04-07T00:58:04 <@englishman> mawk i already found an obscure Eda package and submitted it to fag-connect and they ignored me
2019-04-07T00:58:13 < jadew> kakimir, I want to make it cost effective too
2019-04-07T00:58:21 <@englishman> doesn't mean fag-connect isn't awesome tho
2019-04-07T00:58:30 < kakimir> jadew: good idea
2019-04-07T00:58:42 < kakimir> there could be markets if you want to sell it
2019-04-07T00:58:50 < kakimir> I mean those are moneydongles
2019-04-07T00:58:50 < jadew> kakimir, that's the plan
2019-04-07T00:58:52 <@englishman> why would they sell their cable for less than $40? you'd only be selling to poors
2019-04-07T00:59:23 < kakimir> they don't sell it for 40 because they can sell it for higher
2019-04-07T00:59:40 < kakimir> it's how business works
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2019-04-07T01:00:05 < jadew> englishman, if they sold it for $20, they might have sold 4 times as many
2019-04-07T01:00:16 < Dako300> when SPI is configured through STM32CubeMX, what does the Modified box actually do?
2019-04-07T01:00:24 < kakimir> but had +0 profit
2019-04-07T01:00:30 < kakimir> jadew: 
2019-04-07T01:00:34 < jadew> heh
2019-04-07T01:00:39 < kakimir> or even net loss
2019-04-07T01:00:46 < jadew> I doubt it costs them $20 to make that
2019-04-07T01:00:53 < jadew> it costs them $1
2019-04-07T01:00:55 <@englishman> 4 times the work for half the money nice
2019-04-07T01:00:55 < kakimir> show me one
2019-04-07T01:01:18 < kakimir> I cannot use google
2019-04-07T01:01:29 < jadew> englishman, 4 times the sales for twice the money
2019-04-07T01:01:37 < jadew> it's not a bad deal
2019-04-07T01:02:00 < jadew> kakimir, https://l-tek.si/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/DSC_9524_path.png
2019-04-07T01:02:40 <@englishman> yeah no
2019-04-07T01:02:42 < jadew> it's what the chinese would sell for 20c in packs of 5, if there was any serious interest in it
2019-04-07T01:02:52 < kakimir> why I'm looking at tagconnect
2019-04-07T01:03:03 < kakimir> I thought we were talking about moneydongles
2019-04-07T01:03:05 < jadew> isn't that what we're talking about?
2019-04-07T01:03:11 <@englishman> im buying 20
2019-04-07T01:03:14 <@englishman> fag-connects
2019-04-07T01:03:24 < jadew> no, englishman brought tag-connect up :)
2019-04-07T01:03:38 < jadew> the convo switched
2019-04-07T01:04:36 <@englishman> too much plum wine and irc Tonight?
2019-04-07T01:04:36 < aandrew> fuck tag-connect
2019-04-07T01:04:59 < kakimir> what is with your obsession about tag-connects anyway
2019-04-07T01:05:10 < kakimir> maybe it's nice in small quantity stuff
2019-04-07T01:06:39 < kakimir> if you make more you have preprogrammed chips
2019-04-07T01:07:46 < kakimir> or jigs
2019-04-07T01:09:32 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-07T01:09:57 < kakimir> and that is why it costs money.. it's quite limited market after all
2019-04-07T01:12:46 <@englishman> jigs cost quite a bit more than noob-connect
2019-04-07T01:13:05 <@englishman> in time and money
2019-04-07T01:13:30 < aandrew> I just hate a product that is only successful because of marketing. I spend way too much time bashing them
2019-04-07T01:15:33 < kakimir> depends on jig
2019-04-07T01:15:45 < kakimir> I saw some pretty crude ones in china
2019-04-07T01:15:53 < kakimir> still does the jubb
2019-04-07T01:16:20 < kakimir> in monday my tester will be sent to factory
2019-04-07T01:16:28 < kakimir> interesting to see what they think
2019-04-07T01:19:32 <@englishman> fag-connect marketing wut
2019-04-07T01:21:29 < kakimir> I wonder how much voltage 0.5mm distance with solder mask on other trace holds
2019-04-07T01:21:38 < kakimir> other one exposed
2019-04-07T01:23:03 < jadew> before it arcs?
2019-04-07T01:23:37 < jadew> probably the same voltage for which the solder mask is rated
2019-04-07T01:23:43 < kakimir> something like that
2019-04-07T01:23:46 < kakimir> also there is potting
2019-04-07T01:23:49 < jadew> because it's going to be more than enough, to create an arc that long
2019-04-07T01:32:27 < Dako300> so an issue i've been having with SPI for a while was that whenever read() is called on a raspberry pi (enabling the SPI clock), my STM32 (configured as a slave) keeps receiving zeroes even when no data is sent down the MOSI line
2019-04-07T01:32:31 < Dako300> any ideas how to fix this?
2019-04-07T01:33:12 < jadew> what would you expect it to receive?
2019-04-07T01:33:21 < Dako300> im not expecting it to receive anything
2019-04-07T01:33:26 < Dako300> im only wanting a response back from it
2019-04-07T01:33:32 < jadew> that's not how SPI works
2019-04-07T01:34:01 < jadew> what's wrong with getting zeroes?
2019-04-07T01:34:08 < jadew> just ignore it
2019-04-07T01:34:30 < Dako300> i can't really ignore it since the first byte of a legitimate packet may be zero as well
2019-04-07T01:34:53 < jadew> you'll have to rethink your stuff
2019-04-07T01:35:00 < jadew> SPI isn't read or write
2019-04-07T01:35:04 < jadew> it's both at the same time
2019-04-07T01:35:05 < rajkosto> Dako300, dont clock out zeroes ?
2019-04-07T01:35:14 < rajkosto> also, reset your spi state on CS high
2019-04-07T01:35:14 < Dako300> im not designing the specification so i assumed it was legitimate
2019-04-07T01:35:29 < Dako300> aight i'll probably do that
2019-04-07T01:35:29 < kakimir> jadew: I eyeballed it and it probs has functional DC voltage to at least 200volts
2019-04-07T01:35:53 < jadew> kakimir, well, it won't arc at 200 V, I don't think anyway
2019-04-07T01:36:09 < kakimir> definitelly not
2019-04-07T01:37:05 < kakimir> "With PCBs with solder mask there are typically no issues with temp or humidity from a voltage standpoint. The dielectric breakdown of our soldermask has been tested to 2800V / mil of thickness. "
2019-04-07T01:37:29 < kakimir> how does that distance thing work when these breakdown voltages are so large?
2019-04-07T01:40:40 < jadew> you calculate the arcing distance at that voltage
2019-04-07T01:42:16 < jadew> apparently the rule of thumb is 3 kV/mm (in air)
2019-04-07T01:42:56 < jadew> so in your case it will also arc
2019-04-07T01:43:03 < jadew> because you have a 0.5 mm gap
2019-04-07T01:47:48 < Steffanx> But potting..
2019-04-07T01:50:47 < jadew> well, that doesn't matter much, because it can't get between the two traces
2019-04-07T01:50:55 < zyp> sup?
2019-04-07T01:51:03 < jadew> so the isolation will be that of the solder mask
2019-04-07T01:51:43 < jadew> sup zyp?
2019-04-07T01:53:41 < zyp> trees have pretty huge root complexes
2019-04-07T01:55:13 < zyp> there's a small stump on the edge of my plot, so I started digging it up, and it's connected to a ton of roots going everywhere
2019-04-07T01:55:16 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/HQZEY.jpg
2019-04-07T01:56:09 < mawk> they're lame englishman 
2019-04-07T01:56:29 < jadew> zyp, why didn't you just kill it and leave it in the ground?
2019-04-07T01:57:45 < zyp> because I wanna flatten my property so I get more usable area
2019-04-07T01:58:18 < zyp> and the border goes behind that stump :p
2019-04-07T01:58:43 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NdUV4.jpg
2019-04-07T01:59:28 < zyp> planning to dig out all that shit, continue with the concrete blocks and stack them up so they form a wall along the border
2019-04-07T02:03:17 < zyp> picked up some old shitty gasoline drill breaker to take care of the mountains sticking up in the back corner, but all the roots i were unprepared for
2019-04-07T02:03:34 < zyp> guess I'll have to pick up a sabre saw as well to deal with them
2019-04-07T02:05:22 < rajkosto> hmm how do you resume uart off unknown point
2019-04-07T02:05:37 < zyp> in what sense?
2019-04-07T02:05:54 < zyp> syncing to a continous stream?
2019-04-07T02:06:34 < zyp> are you talking about bit sync or byte sync?
2019-04-07T02:07:26 < rajkosto> im talking "you just connected to this device at a random point how do you reset its state machine"
2019-04-07T02:08:06 < zyp> which state machine?
2019-04-07T02:08:29 < zyp> the bit state machine in the uart itself, or the byte state machine in your protocol handler?
2019-04-07T02:08:43 < rajkosto> in the protocol handler
2019-04-07T02:09:08 < zyp> depends how you're doing framing
2019-04-07T02:10:12 < zyp> if your protocol has explicit frame delimiters, just ignore all bytes until a frame delimiter arrives
2019-04-07T02:10:13 < rajkosto> just reset the state machine in the idle handler maybe
2019-04-07T02:11:41 < zyp> what idle handler?
2019-04-07T02:13:18 < rajkosto> idle line detection interrupt
2019-04-07T02:14:04 < zyp> that'd make idle line your frame delimiter
2019-04-07T02:14:07 < zyp> guess that works too
2019-04-07T02:14:17 < rajkosto> i dont expect the line will be idle between command and data
2019-04-07T02:14:24 < rajkosto> as the total of both would be < 4 bytes
2019-04-07T02:14:54 < zyp> is this RS485?
2019-04-07T02:15:03 < rajkosto> no just uart
2019-04-07T02:15:54 < zyp> can you elaborate on the hardware?
2019-04-07T02:16:45 < rajkosto> just a ft232 connected to rx and tx of stm32f103 uart1
2019-04-07T02:17:34 < zyp> then you're probably overthinking it
2019-04-07T02:17:36 < zyp> but eh
2019-04-07T02:17:53 < zyp> if you wanna do some idle magic, you can do something like this: https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/main.cpp?h=ps2#n208
2019-04-07T02:18:01 < jadew> rajkosto, it will receive garbage and fail until the start and stop bits start to match
2019-04-07T02:18:19 < zyp> jadew, he said he were talking about byte sync, not bit sync
2019-04-07T02:18:44 < jadew> ah... as in his own protocol?
2019-04-07T02:18:50 < zyp> yes
2019-04-07T02:19:28 < zyp> the code I linked to assumes it's the start of a new command if there's been more than 2ms since the previous byte when a new byte arrives
2019-04-07T02:19:55 < kakimir> does farnell take orders from non-business customers?
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2019-04-07T02:20:01 < zyp> that's a fairly simple way to handle it if you have time delimited stuff
2019-04-07T02:20:10 < jadew> if the system cannot be started in a known state, then you could have a proper wrapper for messages
2019-04-07T02:20:26 < zyp> kakimir, I think it might depend on your country, for norway they only accept business customers
2019-04-07T02:20:55 < jadew> kakimir, it did for me, for many years
2019-04-07T02:20:57 < jadew> they still do
2019-04-07T02:21:57 < zyp> can't you just register a business for stuff like that? :p
2019-04-07T02:22:08 < rajkosto> i think for ft232 if your message is < 62 bytes it fits in one usb packet and will be transmitted without pauses in between
2019-04-07T02:22:51 < rajkosto> so i can use even the 1 character idle timeout
2019-04-07T02:22:59 < zyp> it will be transmitted without pauses in between either way, usb can feed the uart faster than the uart can output the bytes
2019-04-07T02:23:14 < zyp> … probably :)
2019-04-07T02:23:14 < jadew> #notalluarts
2019-04-07T02:23:28 < jadew> but yeah, I wanted to make the same comment about the ft232
2019-04-07T02:23:32 < jadew> it probably holds there
2019-04-07T02:23:48 < zyp> also sounds like you're overthinking it
2019-04-07T02:24:02 < rajkosto> well i dont want to reserve a special byte value for framing
2019-04-07T02:24:10 < zyp> why the fuck do you want to hot plug it with data transfer going on?
2019-04-07T02:24:20 < rajkosto> lol my app might crash or the computer might restart 
2019-04-07T02:24:25 < rajkosto> i dunno
2019-04-07T02:24:37 < jadew> so you need a preamble anyway
2019-04-07T02:24:45 < jadew> how else would you sync?
2019-04-07T02:24:50 < jadew> maybe add another line?
2019-04-07T02:25:13 < zyp> also, why use a ft232 at all? why not use usb to the stm32?
2019-04-07T02:25:28 < rajkosto> cuz i needed the timer line on usb line for something
2019-04-07T02:25:59 < rajkosto> and uart easier anyway
2019-04-07T02:26:17 < zyp> not at all
2019-04-07T02:26:18 < rajkosto> works in bootloader mode too
2019-04-07T02:26:35 < zyp> with usb you get reliable framing that works and don't have to worry about bullshit problems like this :p
2019-04-07T02:26:47 < rajkosto> eh i can just reserve 0xFF for framing maybe
2019-04-07T02:27:27 < zyp> sure, uart protocols have a lower barrier to entry, but they are sure as fuck not easier to work with
2019-04-07T02:27:51 < jadew> start each packet with "IMADIK"
2019-04-07T02:28:01 < rajkosto> too complicated
2019-04-07T02:28:01 < jadew> doubt you'll get that as real data from an ADC
2019-04-07T02:28:27 < rajkosto> would need to track last 6 bytes received and memcmp with IMADIK
2019-04-07T02:28:45 < zyp> no, you wouldn't
2019-04-07T02:29:07 < rajkosto> also ADC what
2019-04-07T02:29:52 < rajkosto> its just for changing settings from computah
2019-04-07T02:29:59 < rajkosto> instead of using physical buttons on device
2019-04-07T02:30:17 < jadew> so why would you have a constant stream of data?
2019-04-07T02:30:26 < rajkosto> i dont
2019-04-07T02:31:37 < jadew> sounds like a non problem
2019-04-07T02:31:46 < jadew> is the config passed as plain text?
2019-04-07T02:32:01 < rajkosto> nop, one byte command and then couple of bytes of data
2019-04-07T02:32:16 < jadew> and you end them with?
2019-04-07T02:32:23 < jadew> nothing?
2019-04-07T02:32:34 < rajkosto> nothing, after the counter for data is up it goes back into receive command state
2019-04-07T02:32:57 < jadew> here's the thing, if it's a loose system, where the TX comes and goes as it pleases
2019-04-07T02:33:02 < jadew> you'll get errors
2019-04-07T02:33:29 < jadew> you have to make this thing tolerant to errors
2019-04-07T02:33:41 < jadew> that means that it has to recognize when it's being fed shit
2019-04-07T02:33:55 < jadew> and when the real TX connects to it, it needs a way of flushing the shit out
2019-04-07T02:34:01 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/6w3Dt <- here's how to handle jadew's preamble
2019-04-07T02:34:57 < rajkosto> sure you can do it like that
2019-04-07T02:35:27 < jadew> or you could keep a counter if (ch == preamble[pos++]) { if (pos == len) { yey } } else pos = 0;
2019-04-07T02:35:35 < zyp> yeah
2019-04-07T02:36:25 < rajkosto> but how will it get unstucc in that case
2019-04-07T02:36:55 < jadew> the preamble solves one issue, the other issue is the message length
2019-04-07T02:37:01 < zyp> yes
2019-04-07T02:37:22 < rajkosto> spam IMADIK until you get a response ?
2019-04-07T02:37:53 < jadew> you could make it so if it recognizes IMADIK anywhere, it just starts over
2019-04-07T02:38:03 < jadew> so if your PC crashes while sending a message
2019-04-07T02:38:20 < jadew> when it reboots and starts over your device ignores whatever it already has in the buffer
2019-04-07T02:38:38 < zyp> or you could just delimit frames with break tokens
2019-04-07T02:39:52 < zyp> ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_asynchronous_receiver-transmitter#Break_condition
2019-04-07T02:39:55 < rajkosto> A break condition occurs when the receiver input is at the "space" (logic low, i.e., '0') level for longer than some duration of time, typically, for more than a character time. 
2019-04-07T02:39:59 < jadew> it's funny, but a plain text approach would solve most of this
2019-04-07T02:40:01 < rajkosto> so what i wanted to use, the idle timeout
2019-04-07T02:40:02 < jadew> you'd have a syntax
2019-04-07T02:40:05 < jadew> and \n
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2019-04-07T02:40:26 < jadew> if you get a line of garbage, it's just ignored
2019-04-07T02:40:29 < zyp> rajkosto, no, it's not related to idle
2019-04-07T02:40:31 < jadew> so the PC can start with \n
2019-04-07T02:40:52 < rajkosto> if the PC starts with \n it tries to parse the garbage already in buffer
2019-04-07T02:40:58 < jadew> exactly
2019-04-07T02:40:59 < rajkosto> and id rather not have that
2019-04-07T02:41:03 < zyp> rajkosto, remember that uarts are active low, so idle is high
2019-04-07T02:41:08 < zyp> break is low
2019-04-07T02:41:19 < jadew> and since you have a syntax, garbage will be garbage
2019-04-07T02:41:33 < rajkosto> i dont like parsing text while reducing code size
2019-04-07T02:41:44 < rajkosto> garbage will def confuse it sometimes
2019-04-07T02:41:51 < jadew> you could use IMADIK only for synchronization
2019-04-07T02:42:10 < zyp> if you worry about garbage, add a checksum
2019-04-07T02:42:14 < jadew> IMADIK = reset comms, let's meet again
2019-04-07T02:42:26 < jadew> then you can do the raw data thing
2019-04-07T02:42:44 < zyp> framing solves sync, checksum lets you detect and discard garbage messages
2019-04-07T02:43:04 < jadew> pretty much what you get with USB out of the box :P
2019-04-07T02:43:34 < zyp> yes, usb does both framing and checksumming for you, also has explicit reset conditions and shit defined :p
2019-04-07T02:43:49 < rajkosto> yes but then i have to use laks
2019-04-07T02:44:06 < zyp> as if that's the only usb code in the world :)
2019-04-07T02:44:13 < rajkosto> most of it is bad
2019-04-07T02:45:33 < rajkosto> ive had support for "RESET" appearing anywhere resetting the state machine
2019-04-07T02:45:43 < rajkosto> some garbage still happened somehow
2019-04-07T02:45:59 < rajkosto> so its not required "RESET" the program just sends it when it opens the com port
2019-04-07T02:46:36 < zyp> oh well
2019-04-07T02:46:37 < jadew> if you didn't have a checksum then it could have happened before the RESET was issued
2019-04-07T02:46:49 < jadew> or due to noise
2019-04-07T02:47:06 < rajkosto> parity solves noise ?
2019-04-07T02:47:22 < zyp> parity has nothing to do with checksum
2019-04-07T02:47:37 < rajkosto> how does the stm32 bootloader auto detect bitrate and parity/stop bits the first time you connect to it btw
2019-04-07T02:48:02 < zyp> measuring bit timing
2019-04-07T02:48:21 < zyp> IIRC you have to send it some 0xaa bytes or something that it can sync to
2019-04-07T02:48:40 < zyp> 0xaa is 0b10101010, which makes a nice regular pattern
2019-04-07T02:50:19 < zyp> just run a timer to measure the time between edges, throw out all the outliers and do an average of the rest
2019-04-07T02:51:04 < zyp> I think maybe some microcontrollers have some autobaud features in the uart periperhal itself
2019-04-07T02:51:12 < zyp> but I don't remember which
2019-04-07T02:52:49 < jadew> most have at least error correction, which allows the baud to be off by quite a bit
2019-04-07T02:54:16 < jadew> some do it after a full byte was sent, which makes the error tolerance something like 8-10% - depending on the config?
2019-04-07T02:54:29 < jadew> while others can do it on a bit-by-bit basis, which can allow for a bit more
2019-04-07T02:56:42 < rajkosto> still sounds like doing the 2ms thing is best
2019-04-07T02:56:48 < rajkosto> maybe require a 0xFF byte after each command
2019-04-07T02:57:04 < rajkosto> if not received discard contents
2019-04-07T02:57:29 < jadew> so the 2ms is your preamble
2019-04-07T02:57:34 < jadew> you'll still need a checksum
2019-04-07T03:02:20 < rajkosto> RESET + checksum then ?
2019-04-07T03:03:16 < jadew> sounds reasonable
2019-04-07T03:04:09 < jadew> but you're missing out if you don't hardcode IMADIK in there
2019-04-07T03:04:57 < jadew> someone might probe that bus in the future, you don't want them seeing "RESET"...
2019-04-07T03:05:06 < jadew> they'll think you were a tool
2019-04-07T03:08:11 < rajkosto> checksum before or after the data ?
2019-04-07T03:08:59 < jadew> doesn't matter, but if it's at the end you can compute it as you're spitting it out
2019-04-07T03:09:31 < rajkosto> include length byte or use implicit length byte according to cmd
2019-04-07T03:10:06 < jadew> that's up to you
2019-04-07T03:10:21 < jadew> if you include a length field, then you'll have a container
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2019-04-07T03:18:52 < jadew> vs 2019 is out
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2019-04-07T03:34:48 < s34n> is there a particular pin on an F103 that is best suited for encoder reading?
2019-04-07T03:35:11 < jadew> like... a rotary encoder?
2019-04-07T03:35:17 < s34n> yes
2019-04-07T03:36:11 < jadew> any GPIO should do
2019-04-07T03:36:15 < s34n> feeding quadrature
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2019-04-07T04:08:42 < emeryth> s34n: the timers have encoder support so it's best to use those
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2019-04-07T07:00:43 < bitmask> busy night
2019-04-07T07:09:25 < Cracki> lazy night. suddenly getting hard faults, but only if I use newlib's putchar/printf (sprintf is fine) and it's tiresome
2019-04-07T07:10:06 < Cracki> oh well, gotta give cubeshit a chance
2019-04-07T07:15:10 < Cracki> also, could someone tell the chinese to fix their "design"? https://lujji.github.io/blog/stlink-clone-trace/
2019-04-07T07:28:04 < bitmask> made $85 in 5 hours, not bad
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2019-04-07T10:33:27 < dongs> < jadew> any GPIO should do
2019-04-07T10:33:28 < dongs> uh no
2019-04-07T10:33:46 < dongs> youcould use ch1/2 of a timer and do it for free..
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2019-04-07T10:50:55 < jly> i've been uhhh... disconnected 
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2019-04-07T12:28:04 < jadew> dongs, didn't know that, that's cool
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2019-04-07T12:49:22 < Thorn> so how do you design RF MACs and is there quality literature? keywords: beacon frame, csma/ca, lbt, etc.
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2019-04-07T13:07:25 < rajkosto> so whats easiest way to send out a QPSK signal literally only 2 bits needed but need to be as low latency as possible
2019-04-07T13:13:12 < BrainDamage> record and replay?
2019-04-07T13:13:36 < rajkosto> i have the state of 2 gpio pins i need to propagate over the air to a receiver 1-5m away
2019-04-07T13:13:44 < rajkosto> replicate with as low latency as possible
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2019-04-07T13:18:11 < jpa-> "as low as possible" is useless spec, because that would mean some incredibly expensive ultra high frequency transmitter
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2019-04-07T13:19:46 < jpa-> also plain QPSK won't quite work for your purpose, as it cannot handle DC bias in your signals
2019-04-07T13:22:52 < dongs> whats a qpsk signal
2019-04-07T13:23:40 < jpa-> changing phase of RF carrier to transmit 4 different symbols (or 2 bits at a time)
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2019-04-07T13:27:04 < jpa-> (you could use differentially encoded QPSK, but then you need to pick a symbol rate anyway; might as well decide what latency is good enough for you and pick a ready-made radio module that can meet it)
2019-04-07T13:29:00 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaOsesiQm1U
2019-04-07T13:29:17 < dongs> nmotherufcker
2019-04-07T13:29:36 < dongs> thankfully my internet wasslow enough
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2019-04-07T13:44:41 < Thorn> this looks pretty interesting https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262150719_A_survey_of_beacon-enabled_IEEE_802154_MAC_protocols_in_wireless_sensor_networks
2019-04-07T13:47:31 < Steffanx> and sci-hub has it :P
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2019-04-07T13:55:18 < Thorn> you can download it from that page directly
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2019-04-07T13:56:37 < Thorn> why have I ignored stm32l0 until now? they look quite good, and lcsc has some ~cheap ones
2019-04-07T13:56:53 < Steffanx> ah i see
2019-04-07T13:57:22 < dongs> bacon-enabled
2019-04-07T13:58:12 < Thorn> what is stm32l5
2019-04-07T14:00:24 < Steffanx> IoT sir
2019-04-07T14:05:38 < Steffanx> "which can be enabled/disabled on the fly to optimize the energy". At least it can optimize energy.
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2019-04-07T14:17:17 < Thorn> >crypto accelerator
2019-04-07T14:17:30 < Thorn> = not available in China
2019-04-07T14:18:15 < Steffanx> thats why people use mouser et all right? ;)
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2019-04-07T14:49:44 < rajkosto> jpa-, yes ready made chip good
2019-04-07T14:50:23 < rajkosto> less than a microsecond
2019-04-07T14:50:41 < rajkosto> i thought analog modulating qpsk would be able to do it pretty easily with a few transistors
2019-04-07T14:51:14 < jpa-> it's easy to transmit, but to receive it you'd need to regain carrier phase synchronization somehow
2019-04-07T14:54:58 < jpa-> you could use 4 frequencies frequency shift keying though
2019-04-07T14:55:36 < jpa-> but if you want to comply with radio frequency regulations, that's going to be difficult also due to the bandwidth needed
2019-04-07T14:57:54 < emeryth> rajkosto: why not just use the simplest toy rc or garage door remote chip?
2019-04-07T14:58:13 < jpa-> because those will have latency in order of milliseconds?
2019-04-07T15:01:49 < jpa-> 1µs latency is actually quite difficult to achieve, if you also want it to be robust against noise and to comply with regulations
2019-04-07T15:02:15 < jpa-> next you'll probably demand it to be low-power also
2019-04-07T15:03:40 < rajkosto> only on the reciever
2019-04-07T15:03:43 < rajkosto> also dont care about regulations
2019-04-07T15:04:00 < rajkosto> surely there must be a "wireless gpio" chip somewhere
2019-04-07T15:04:04 < rajkosto> just need to turn 2 things on/off
2019-04-07T15:05:25 < Steffanx> <rajkosto> also dont care about regulations. Yet you will complain when your shit gets disturbed by others that didnt give a shit? ;)
2019-04-07T15:06:05 < jpa-> MAX2900 could take in 2 bits and select transmission frequency based on that, if you exceed allowed TX power by high enough margin you could receive based on just if there is or is not energy on particular channel
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2019-04-07T15:44:21 < jadew> looks like the butchering of the VS interface continues
2019-04-07T15:44:29 < jadew> when you think it can't get any worse, it does
2019-04-07T15:44:31 < dongs> should i bother downloading 2019
2019-04-07T15:44:39 < jadew> don't know yet
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2019-04-07T15:46:00 < dongs> jadew: is it out?
2019-04-07T15:46:03 < dongs> all i see is preview
2019-04-07T15:46:04 < jadew> yeah
2019-04-07T15:46:08 < dongs> on microsoft.com
2019-04-07T15:46:10 < dongs> where is it out?
2019-04-07T15:46:10 < jadew> no, the regular one is out
2019-04-07T15:46:16 < dongs> https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/downloads/
2019-04-07T15:46:18 < dongs> regular what
2019-04-07T15:46:21 < dongs> community?
2019-04-07T15:46:34 < jadew> yeah
2019-04-07T15:46:56 < jadew> if you get the downloader, you'll have the option to download the final version
2019-04-07T15:47:03 < dongs> does community still ship gimped compilers
2019-04-07T15:47:07 < jadew> not sure why it says "download preview" there
2019-04-07T15:47:09 < rajkosto> i thought we were going to be on 2017 
2019-04-07T15:47:11 < rajkosto> forever
2019-04-07T15:47:22 < rajkosto> since they decided to just deliver udpates to it all the time via the web updater
2019-04-07T15:47:27 < rajkosto> that change the compiler version and everything
2019-04-07T15:47:28 < jadew> dongs, gimped?
2019-04-07T15:47:42 < dongs> yes, -O0
2019-04-07T15:47:42 < rajkosto> community vs ultimate is just missing some enterprise features
2019-04-07T15:47:52 < dongs> regardless of whawt you actually specify
2019-04-07T15:47:54 < rajkosto> you dont need more than community since 2017
2019-04-07T15:48:07 < jadew> dongs, oh, didn't know they did that
2019-04-07T15:48:11 < jadew> where did you read about it?
2019-04-07T15:48:17 < rajkosto> when did they ever do that ?
2019-04-07T15:48:22 < rajkosto> earlier "express" versions ?
2019-04-07T15:48:34 < rajkosto> those were missing MFC/ATL headers and such but didnt think they didnt optimize code
2019-04-07T15:48:46 < rajkosto> (express was useless as you couldnt install add-ins anyway)
2019-04-07T15:52:56 < Steffanx> lol. Like express is still relevant. That stuff is from AGES ago.
2019-04-07T15:54:25 < Steffanx> 2019 interface looks fine to me jadew. pretty clean and empty.
2019-04-07T15:54:50 < jadew> Steffanx, yeah, looks good on a wide screen, on 4:3 they waste space and the menu wraps
2019-04-07T15:55:01 < jadew> even tho there's a ton of empty space on the bar
2019-04-07T15:56:20 < dongs> > 4:3
2019-04-07T15:56:26 < dongs> what the fuck
2019-04-07T15:56:28 < Steffanx> The wrapping is perhaps a bit less optimal, but i dont see them really wasting space.
2019-04-07T15:56:51 < jadew> Steffanx, there's a huge gap in my caption bar, where the menu could have extended
2019-04-07T15:57:04 < jadew> dongs, I like my 4:3 screens
2019-04-07T15:57:23 < jadew> very good for ircing and programming
2019-04-07T15:57:45 < Steffanx> i dont see it jadew
2019-04-07T15:57:52 < jadew> if I replaced one with another wide screen, then I'd have a space issue
2019-04-07T15:58:00 < jadew> Steffanx, I'll take a screenshot
2019-04-07T15:58:06 < zyp> 4:3 sounds fairly wasteful for ircing, 10:16 is much more convenient :p
2019-04-07T15:58:20 < jadew> heh
2019-04-07T15:58:35 < Steffanx> wasteful > ircing.
2019-04-07T16:00:02 < jadew> http://188.27.94.208/stuff/menu.png
2019-04-07T16:00:42 < dongs> yeha micorsoft fucking with the menubars/titlebars is prettty retarded
2019-04-07T16:00:47 < dongs> at least be glad they didnt ribbonize it
2019-04-07T16:00:53 < jadew> that's true
2019-04-07T16:00:56 < dongs> probly cuz entier vstudio team said, you ribbonize this shit,m we all quit
2019-04-07T16:01:07 < jadew> hah
2019-04-07T16:01:12 < zyp> I thought you liked ribbons
2019-04-07T16:01:29 < dongs> yeah I'm super happy CIRCUITMAKER PRO user
2019-04-07T16:02:13 < aandrew> dongs: you? cloud shit?
2019-04-07T16:02:26 < Steffanx> didnt you know?
2019-04-07T16:02:43 < dongs> what cloud shit
2019-04-07T16:02:49 < dongs> oh, did i miss a /s there
2019-04-07T16:03:18 < dongs> thre hasnt been a circuitshitter update in over a year
2019-04-07T16:03:27 < dongs> i have it installed in VM for random trolling
2019-04-07T16:07:51 < jadew> intellisense seems to work a bit better
2019-04-07T16:09:47 < dongs> im still 20% into making an offline installer
2019-04-07T16:09:53 < dongs> i bet its downloading 20 copies of assdroid emulator again
2019-04-07T16:09:57 < dongs> like it did for 2015 and 2017
2019-04-07T16:10:22 < dongs> Microsoft.Azure.Compute.Emulator.Exe,version=2.9.8899.26,chip=x64
2019-04-07T16:10:23 < dongs> yaaaaaa
2019-04-07T16:10:25 < rajkosto> they dont want you to offline isntaller cuz most of it is just link to unrelated external programs
2019-04-07T16:10:25 < jadew> you got the option for that in the GUI or did you use the command line switch?
2019-04-07T16:10:36 < dongs> jadew: its been same since 2015
2019-04-07T16:10:46 < dongs> vs_bla.exe --layout c:\offlinepath --lang=en_US or whatever
2019-04-07T16:10:58 < dongs> google "creating offline installation of visual studio"
2019-04-07T16:11:07 < jadew> yeah
2019-04-07T16:11:11 < dongs> there's also commands to update it/ purge old cache
2019-04-07T16:11:25 < jadew> I do that too, but not this early
2019-04-07T16:11:29 < jadew> maybe after the first update
2019-04-07T16:11:41 < dongs> well since you can update the installation it doesnt matter
2019-04-07T16:11:45 < dongs> it only downlaods diffs after
2019-04-07T16:11:53 < jadew> ah, neat
2019-04-07T16:12:20 < dongs> Microsoft.VisualStudio.Package.NodeJs,version=1.7
2019-04-07T16:12:20 < dongs> gross
2019-04-07T16:17:16 < zyp> haha
2019-04-07T16:18:29 < Steffanx> Better stop poking. Soon you will find something even worse and make you cry.
2019-04-07T16:20:42 < dongs> i already did :(
2019-04-07T16:20:47 < dongs> CPython2.Msi.x64,version=2.7.15,chip=x64
2019-04-07T16:20:51 < dongs> the ultimate aids
2019-04-07T16:22:48 < jadew> I was wrong about intellisense, it's still slow
2019-04-07T16:23:04 < jadew> what bothers me is that visual assist x is super fast
2019-04-07T16:23:09 < jadew> so it's doable
2019-04-07T16:25:33 < zyp> uh
2019-04-07T16:25:45 < zyp> dongs, I think I need to have more cables for the arcin made too
2019-04-07T16:25:50 < dongs> OK
2019-04-07T16:26:00 < zyp> apparently I've sold like twice as many as I've got left
2019-04-07T16:26:06 < dongs> cool
2019-04-07T16:26:07 < zyp> not sure about the other kinds yet, I'll count later
2019-04-07T16:32:57 < zyp> actually, I counted them now, I've got plenty
2019-04-07T16:33:54 < zyp> dongs, was it 500 at a time I used to get of those XH to fast connectors?
2019-04-07T16:36:53 < dongs> i think so. i don't remember.
2019-04-07T16:37:04 < dongs> i could ask monday if i have time, im still a bit busy wiht faggot shit in tw
2019-04-07T16:37:08 < dongs> got some meetings to take care of
2019-04-07T16:37:13 < zyp> yeah, looks like it
2019-04-07T16:37:41 < zyp> you can just go ahead and have them make me 500 again
2019-04-07T16:37:47 < zyp> when you have time
2019-04-07T16:38:14 < dongs> what's the difference between emacs and vs2019
2019-04-07T16:38:31 < dongs> both are full OS on their own and have the kitchen sink. but vs2019 is actually usable.
2019-04-07T16:38:49 < dongs> ok
2019-04-07T16:38:53 < dongs> do you have any old emails with this
2019-04-07T16:39:05 < dongs> if so, can you bump the thread so i can just fw to c hinagirl
2019-04-07T16:39:39 < zyp> yeah
2019-04-07T16:42:36 < zyp> I think somebody ate all my fucking microusb cables when I moved, I can't find them anymore
2019-04-07T16:45:19 < zyp> fucking
2019-04-07T16:45:28 < zyp> I found one that doesn't have data lines hooked up
2019-04-07T16:46:19 < jpa-> to make things simpler, i only have two kinds of microusb cables: the ones that don't have data lines, and the ones that have 1 ohm end-to-end resistance
2019-04-07T16:46:33 < jpa-> no need to bother trying to find the good one
2019-04-07T16:46:51 < zyp> haha
2019-04-07T16:46:58 < dongs> so you mean they're all shit?
2019-04-07T16:47:04 < dongs> i was actually surprised i had some non-data lines cables
2019-04-07T16:47:11 < dongs> i threw that shit away after  cutting it up in pieces
2019-04-07T16:47:15 < dongs> to never come across them again
2019-04-07T16:47:26 < zyp> I considered doing the same
2019-04-07T16:47:38 < aandrew> dongs> i threw that shit away after  cutting it up in pieces
2019-04-07T16:47:44 < aandrew> exactly what i do
2019-04-07T16:48:51 < aandrew> dongs: isn't circit studio altium cloud edition
2019-04-07T16:49:21 < dongs> yeah except it looks nothing like altium
2019-04-07T16:49:25 < dongs> no keyboard shortcuts
2019-04-07T16:49:27 < dongs> adn its all ribbon
2019-04-07T16:49:29 < dongs> so it s completely shit
2019-04-07T16:49:32 < aandrew> jesus
2019-04-07T16:49:45 < PaulFertser> How to actually buy a proper microusb cable? They do not seem to expose resistance for the power wires, so how to tell if it's any good without measuring it first?
2019-04-07T16:50:12 < aandrew> when you find out tell me so we'll both know
2019-04-07T16:50:35 < dongs> i usually just buy more expensive shit
2019-04-07T16:50:49 < dongs> like you know chinagirl can get microusb for like $0.05/piece
2019-04-07T16:50:51 < dongs> you know its gonna be shit
2019-04-07T16:50:55 < zyp> I've had luck with shit advertising 2.4A charge rate
2019-04-07T16:50:56 < dongs> but if its at least $1 it mgiht not be so bad
2019-04-07T16:51:46 < PaulFertser> I bought some cables advertised as "high speed charging" but they had 0.4 Ohms on both Vcc and GND.
2019-04-07T16:52:36 < PaulFertser> But they were less than a buck each.
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2019-04-07T17:00:57 < aandrew> V=IR, they're dropping almost 2V? damn
2019-04-07T17:20:59 < Thorn> has anyone used any of the 3 bottom handles (they\re supposed to be metal) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KSGER-Aluminum-Alloy-9501-907-Soldering-Iron-Handle-For-V2-1S-V2-0-V3-0-Stm32/32965564853.html
2019-04-07T17:23:00 < dongs> no, we're not brokebitches
2019-04-07T17:23:52 < Thorn> yeah I should know better, you're moneyed westerners
2019-04-07T17:39:12 < Steffanx> lol
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2019-04-07T17:51:44 < jadew> dongs, I just got one of those soldering stations and it's much better than my fx-888 (original) station
2019-04-07T17:51:56 < jadew> which was 4 times as much
2019-04-07T17:52:09 < jadew> it gets to temp in 3-4 seconds
2019-04-07T17:52:41 < jadew> the iron is crap tho
2019-04-07T17:52:53 < jadew> it came with the second one in that picture
2019-04-07T17:55:14 < jadew> it's also very low profile, I'm considering mounting it under the desk
2019-04-07T17:55:42 < aandrew> my ancient metcal iron is awesome
2019-04-07T17:56:05 < aandrew> just two tips ofr it, a litlte elf shoe hook for tiny work and a fat screwdriver kind of tip for more heat
2019-04-07T17:56:17 < day> aandrew: pff
2019-04-07T17:56:23 < day> aandrew: https://i.redd.it/xs4wmx8u5mm21.jpg
2019-04-07T17:56:31 < jadew> lol
2019-04-07T17:56:44 < Steffanx> Good day.
2019-04-07T17:57:09 < aandrew> hah
2019-04-07T17:57:48 < jadew> now what I'd like to get is a low profile heat gun
2019-04-07T17:58:02 < jadew> if I could have both mounted under the desk it would be ideal
2019-04-07T17:59:50 < aandrew> oh yeah, my youyue is kind of heavy
2019-04-07T18:00:13 < jadew> I have them mine in the middle of my work space
2019-04-07T18:00:52 < jadew> and they get in the way when I try to reach across
2019-04-07T18:09:31 < jadew> http://188.27.94.208/stuff/soldering_stations.jpg
2019-04-07T18:10:17 < jadew> if I could get rid of the stations and only have the holders on the bench, it would be a huge improvment
2019-04-07T18:10:28 < jadew> I could reach the instruments on the other side
2019-04-07T18:10:47 < Thorn> dongs hiding from cat videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0TOyTBK8rA
2019-04-07T18:14:14 < BrainDamage> swap the stations with the instruments
2019-04-07T18:14:22 < BrainDamage> you don't need to adjust temp continously
2019-04-07T18:14:35 < BrainDamage> but you do need to access an instrument's front panel and display
2019-04-07T18:16:08 < jadew> BrainDamage, I thought about putting them on top or where the instruments are, but then the cables would be too short
2019-04-07T18:16:40 < BrainDamage> at least for the soldering iron, extending the cable shouldn't be a big deal
2019-04-07T18:16:49 < BrainDamage> the hose for the hot air tool might be
2019-04-07T18:17:03 < jadew> yeah, that one would be easier to solve
2019-04-07T18:17:14 < jadew> with the KSGER tho, I can just mount the station under the table
2019-04-07T18:17:15 < BrainDamage> since you'll need to splice using barbed hose connectors or screw grips
2019-04-07T18:17:16 < jadew> it's very small
2019-04-07T19:18:49 < jadew> https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=CqDbF_1554575639
2019-04-07T19:27:48 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hjk3qRurDUaO1SmRt1-9IezSGQV6Tr4B/view?usp=sharing oh that's the noise
2019-04-07T19:29:29 < kakimir> as if something tried to come out of engine
2019-04-07T19:37:38 < jadew> low on oil?
2019-04-07T19:38:07 < kakimir> no
2019-04-07T19:38:11 < kakimir> oil level is full
2019-04-07T19:40:06 < kakimir> those are swing arms for pumpeducshe
2019-04-07T19:40:27 < kakimir> springs you see are the PD
2019-04-07T19:40:58 < kakimir> and wiring is connected to them
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2019-04-07T20:10:33 < aandrew> hm, I think I just added frequency hopping to my TDMA protocol
2019-04-07T20:12:36 < BrainDamage> you're halfway to gsm
2019-04-07T20:14:07 < Steffanx> Sounds like you did it by accident aandrew?
2019-04-07T20:18:09 < bitmask> I'm starting to regret ordering all these ICs from Ali.  I thought if I received china clones then they would mostly work the same but maybe just not be able to push em as hard but now I'm seeing posts ranging from that being the best case scenario to actual features missing and other major performance issues
2019-04-07T20:18:39 < bitmask> I guess they should be ok for prototyping and then using the real deal for final product
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2019-04-07T20:24:22 < jpa-> bitmask: nah, some of the china clones have fixed e.g. i2c bugs
2019-04-07T20:24:32 < jpa-> so even if it works on clone, might not work on real one
2019-04-07T20:25:44 < bitmask> well maybe there will be a step between clone and real, but thats ok
2019-04-07T20:26:08 < bitmask> clone for alpha, real for beta + final
2019-04-07T20:26:32 < qyx> the best way to fail on beta
2019-04-07T20:26:48 < bitmask> im not talking about production stuff, just personal projects
2019-04-07T20:27:12 < bitmask> I dont wanna just throw the stuff out, for all I know some of its real anyway
2019-04-07T20:27:59 < bitmask> wish there was an easy way to tell/test
2019-04-07T20:30:32 < qyx> kakimir: is it broken?
2019-04-07T20:31:41 < kakimir> kinda
2019-04-07T20:31:59 < kakimir> small mechanical problem
2019-04-07T20:32:13 < kakimir> didn't stop me driving >600km
2019-04-07T20:32:27 < kakimir> it has swallowed one bolt head cannot find it
2019-04-07T20:32:39 < kakimir> maybe it comes out with oil
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2019-04-07T20:44:18 < Steffanx> Your engine hated your music too, kakimir
2019-04-07T20:45:40 < kakimir> I used music to mask the sound of engine trying to tear itself appart
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2019-04-07T20:56:51 < s34n> I'm trying to flash a blue pill with the stm32duino bootloader from linux
2019-04-07T20:57:02 < s34n> I'm following these instructions: https://wiki.stm32duino.com/index.php?title=Burning_the_bootloader
2019-04-07T20:57:36 < s34n> they say to use ~/.arduino15/packages/stm32duino/tools/stm32tools/1.0.9/linux/stm32flash
2019-04-07T20:58:25 < s34n> but I don't have packages/stm32duino/
2019-04-07T20:58:36 < s34n> where do I get that?
2019-04-07T21:00:29 < jpa-> probably by installing the stm32duino package from arduino ide
2019-04-07T21:01:05 < jpa-> https://github.com/stm32duino/stm32flash  but you can also download it from here
2019-04-07T21:01:48 < s34n> thank you
2019-04-07T21:04:35 -!- Jybz [~jibz@37.175.110.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-04-07T21:12:50 < Steffanx> Did you know this or did you google, jpa-?  
2019-04-07T21:12:57 < Steffanx> or duckduck.
2019-04-07T21:13:26 < jpa-> i just guessed the stuff except for the github link, which i googled
2019-04-07T21:15:09 < Steffanx> ok you're safe.
2019-04-07T21:15:29 < jpa-> (i have used arduino ide with esp8266 years back, though)
2019-04-07T21:16:16 < s34n> has anybody here used stm32flash?
2019-04-07T21:16:31 < jpa-> sure
2019-04-07T21:17:15 < s34n> if my usb port presents as ttyACM0 instead of ttyUSB0, that shouldn't be a problem should it?
2019-04-07T21:17:32 < jpa-> should work
2019-04-07T21:19:05 < karlp> just meant a different driver is handing it.
2019-04-07T21:19:32 < karlp> USBx normally means it wasn't presenting itself as  a standard ACM class device
2019-04-07T21:19:39 < aandrew> BrainDamage: lol
2019-04-07T21:22:19 < s34n> if I've configured my bridge correctly, that should be the stm32 presenting, right? not the bridge presenting?
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2019-04-07T21:24:13 < jpa-> bridge?
2019-04-07T21:25:04 < jpa-> you'll see the usb-serial converter, the pc won't see any information about what's connected to the serial side of it, it can just communicate with serial port data
2019-04-07T21:25:40 < s34n> k
2019-04-07T21:26:23 < mawk> I changed the USB D+ resistor on the blue pill, from 10k to 1.5k
2019-04-07T21:26:27 < s34n> stm32flash tells me it "Failed to init device" so I must have the usb-serial converter misconfigured
2019-04-07T21:26:29 < mawk> it's the first time I solder something that small
2019-04-07T21:26:47 < jpa-> s34n: have you started the stm32 with boot0 pin high?
2019-04-07T21:26:47 < s34n> mawk: I will get to that
2019-04-07T21:27:06 < s34n> but even then I can't flash to bootloader over usb
2019-04-07T21:27:21 < s34n> jpa-: I think so
2019-04-07T21:27:39 < mawk> it's mandatory, you should double check
2019-04-07T21:27:49 < s34n> jpa-: I boot boot0 over to the "1" pin
2019-04-07T21:28:04 < s34n> which I think means it is set hight
2019-04-07T21:28:07 < s34n> *high
2019-04-07T21:28:10 < jpa-> what does that even mean
2019-04-07T21:28:41 < s34n> boot0 is three jumper pins on my board
2019-04-07T21:28:44 < mawk> there's 1 on the silkscreen
2019-04-07T21:28:46 < mawk> that's what he means
2019-04-07T21:28:52 < jpa-> ok
2019-04-07T21:28:52 < s34n> yes
2019-04-07T21:29:33 < karlp> mawk:thhis is why you should stop buying those garbage designs
2019-04-07T21:30:03 < karlp> stop encouraging them to make more of them
2019-04-07T21:30:11 < s34n> karlp: yes. it would be nice if they would fix the resistor and flash a bootloader before selling it
2019-04-07T21:30:40 < s34n> karlp: otherwise, it's a nice little board, no?
2019-04-07T21:31:27 < s34n> jpa-: I'm using an arduino uno as a usb-serial converter
2019-04-07T21:32:51 < karlp> "other than the fact that it's broken, it's fine" ? yes, I guess.... if you think that's a good thing.
2019-04-07T21:33:33 < s34n> karlp: I don't thinks it's a good thing
2019-04-07T21:33:33 < mawk> I have it since a long time, I wouldn't buy it today
2019-04-07T21:33:44 < mawk> the micro-usb connector is shit too
2019-04-07T21:33:53 < mawk> have 10 insertions then it's desoldered
2019-04-07T21:34:10 < s34n> karlp: but for $1.50 plus a very little work... 
2019-04-07T21:34:56 < s34n> karlp: it's still attractive
2019-04-07T21:35:09 < PaulFertser> s34n: your usb-serial might be broken, e.g. it might be not doing the even parity properly.
2019-04-07T21:35:18  * s34n says without getting it to work yet
2019-04-07T21:36:19 < PaulFertser> s34n: you should have bought at least a fake stlink if you plan to work with stm32, why not have a debugger handy?
2019-04-07T21:37:28 < s34n> PaulFertser: yes. I'm just impatient for it to arrive
2019-04-07T21:37:47 < s34n> PaulFertser: so I'm trying to get the bootloader flashed in the meantime
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2019-04-07T21:38:17 < mawk> do you have a rpi ?
2019-04-07T21:38:21 < jadew> kakimir, you can tell if chips are original or not
2019-04-07T21:38:21 < mawk> s34n: 
2019-04-07T21:38:31 < jadew> just open them up and put them under the microscope
2019-04-07T21:38:55 < s34n> according to https://hardwarefun.com/tutorials/using-arduino-as-a-bridge-to-connect-serial-devices-with-pc, holding the atmega to reset will make the uno works as a passthrough
2019-04-07T21:39:24 < mawk> probably yes
2019-04-07T21:39:31 < s34n> mawk: I might get my hands on a pizero
2019-04-07T21:39:35 < mawk> so you have none yet
2019-04-07T21:39:52 < jadew> kakimir, it doesn't have to be pretty - you don't have to decap it, just tear it apart in a vice and inspect the die
2019-04-07T21:39:55 < s34n> but uno passthrough seemed pretty simple
2019-04-07T21:41:07 < kakimir> ?
2019-04-07T21:41:13 < PaulFertser> s34n: yes, it should work that way, make sure rx is connected to tx and avr is in reset.
2019-04-07T21:41:29 < kakimir> who are you talkin to jadew
2019-04-07T21:41:32 < jadew> *vise
2019-04-07T21:41:49 < jadew> kakimir, wasn't it you who bought ICs of questionable origin?
2019-04-07T21:42:00 < kakimir> not usually
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2019-04-07T21:42:10 < jadew> might have misread the scrollback
2019-04-07T21:42:20 < kakimir> how long ago?
2019-04-07T21:42:20 < BrainDamage> jadew: it was bitmask
2019-04-07T21:42:32 < jadew> right, it was bitmask
2019-04-07T21:42:34 < bitmask> ?
2019-04-07T21:43:06 < bitmask> oh
2019-04-07T21:43:09 < bitmask> thats a lot of work
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2019-04-07T21:43:41 < s34n> PaulFertser: that page says the tx should connect to tx, not rx
2019-04-07T21:44:20 < PaulFertser> s34n: when connecting two uarts you connect one's tx to the other's rx. Always. Sometimes silkscreen labels are just wrong.
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2019-04-07T21:45:53 < s34n> PaulFertser: same result if I switch them
2019-04-07T21:48:00 < Cracki> ah, it's bypassing the atmega and using the usb-serial chip instead
2019-04-07T21:51:26 < s34n> right
2019-04-07T21:52:00 < s34n> actually, I think the atmega is the usb-serial chip on an uno
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2019-04-07T21:53:22 < PaulFertser> s34n: does it support even parity?
2019-04-07T21:54:15 < jpa-> that's a good point, they are using some software implementation to save costs
2019-04-07T21:55:50 < s34n> PaulFertser: supposedly
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2019-04-07T21:56:47 < s34n> an arduino sketch can Serial1.begin(57600, SERIAL_8E1)
2019-04-07T21:56:59 < s34n> but I'm not using a sketch
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2019-04-07T22:01:03 < s34n> PaulFertser: I connected 3.3 from unto to stm32, not 5V. Is that ok?
2019-04-07T22:01:15 < s34n> s/unto/uno/
2019-04-07T22:01:34 < PaulFertser> s34n: bluepill uses 3.3V Vcc, so yes.
2019-04-07T22:01:49 < s34n> k. that's what I thought
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2019-04-07T22:13:07 < s34n> stm32flash says it is using 57600 8E1. But when I look at the port, it is 9600.
2019-04-07T22:13:41 < s34n> but it should be configuring the port, right?
2019-04-07T22:13:44 < rajkosto> nah
2019-04-07T22:13:50 < rajkosto> the windows port settings are the "default" for "something"
2019-04-07T22:13:58 < rajkosto> each application when it opens it, specifies the baudrate
2019-04-07T22:14:01 < rajkosto> and ti doesnt change that "default"
2019-04-07T22:15:09 < PaulFertser> s34n: yes, it configures the port with ioctls.
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2019-04-07T22:20:14 < s34n> stm32flash doesn't have any verbose setting to get more info on why it fails
2019-04-07T22:39:55 < s34n> is there something I can send over serial to the f103 that would get a response to let me know if the serial connection is working?
2019-04-07T22:51:43 -!- h4x0riz3d is now known as antto
2019-04-07T22:54:01 < bitmask> jadew or anyone, any recommendations on microscopes for checking dies (possibly) and smd soldering checking (main use)?
2019-04-07T22:54:33 < jadew> you need a very powerful microscope for checking dies, so you won't be soldering under it
2019-04-07T22:54:33 < bitmask> what magnification and are those usb ones ok?
2019-04-07T22:54:45 < bitmask> oh
2019-04-07T22:54:54 < bitmask> screw that then, what about for the main use
2019-04-07T22:55:30 < jadew> one of those cheap, optical inspection microscopes with a small stand seem like a good idea on a budget
2019-04-07T22:55:56 < bitmask> k
2019-04-07T22:56:57 < jadew> I don't think you can check dies for logos and important markings with anything below 100x
2019-04-07T22:57:01 < jadew> I use a biological one for that
2019-04-07T22:57:36 < bitmask> i see
2019-04-07T22:57:58 < jadew> (those can also be had for cheap, if you really have to do that)
2019-04-07T22:58:05 < bitmask> I see that I won't see IC
2019-04-07T23:01:36 < bitmask> I think my GF's crazy uncle is going through our room when we arent here so I ordered a cheap cam from ebay. 
2019-04-07T23:02:01 < jadew> did you tell your gf?
2019-04-07T23:02:30 < bitmask> yea
2019-04-07T23:02:48 < jadew> shouldn't have
2019-04-07T23:02:54 < bitmask> haha why
2019-04-07T23:03:11 < bitmask> so I can spy on her?
2019-04-07T23:03:15 < jadew> you could have gotten some cool videos for later in life
2019-04-07T23:03:20 < jadew> that too
2019-04-07T23:03:21 < bitmask> haha
2019-04-07T23:05:25 < jadew> I once had a landlord lady who would just come in and start cleaning
2019-04-07T23:05:33 < jadew> regardless of what I was doing
2019-04-07T23:05:45 < jadew> she'd just show up and do her thing
2019-04-07T23:06:14 < bitmask> what you were doing, ie: jerking off
2019-04-07T23:06:32 < jadew> like... being naked, with a naked chick in bed
2019-04-07T23:06:40 < jadew> we had to pretend we're sleeping
2019-04-07T23:07:01 < bitmask> I wouldnt mind as long as no one else minded
2019-04-07T23:07:16 < jadew> it was weird
2019-04-07T23:07:52 < bitmask> ahh its after 4, gotta go make some money
2019-04-07T23:08:06 < jadew> you were going to get a job?
2019-04-07T23:08:49 < bitmask> I have an interview for a real job on wednesday, but ive been delivering food for doordash the past few weeks for some pocket money
2019-04-07T23:09:05 < jadew> ah, nice
2019-04-07T23:09:36 < bitmask> made $85 in 5 hours yesterday, mostly just driving around listening to music
2019-04-07T23:09:46 < kakimir> pocket money mentioned
2019-04-07T23:10:19 < bitmask> I wish my car got more than 17 mpg but oh well
2019-04-07T23:10:22 < kakimir> bitmask: we have wolt and foodora
2019-04-07T23:10:32 < bitmask> wolt? that doesnt sound very appealing
2019-04-07T23:10:36 < bitmask> we have doordash and uber eats
2019-04-07T23:10:48 < jadew> we have glovo
2019-04-07T23:10:49 < kakimir> finnish company
2019-04-07T23:11:04 < kakimir> popular in eastern europe
2019-04-07T23:11:07 < bitmask> its pretty cool just working when you feel like it
2019-04-07T23:11:14 < bitmask> its not always busy though
2019-04-07T23:11:29 < jadew> I wouldn't order from such a service
2019-04-07T23:11:38 < kakimir> wolt started 2014
2019-04-07T23:11:41 < bitmask> why not
2019-04-07T23:12:06 < jadew> because I want my food delivered by people who had the chance to get over the spitting on your food phase, if they ever had one
2019-04-07T23:12:19 < bitmask> its cool for places that dont normally deliver, but its weird that some places that deliver also offer doordash but Im sure doordash costs more
2019-04-07T23:12:27 < jadew> by people who are already tired of their job and they just want to get it done
2019-04-07T23:12:34 < jadew> those are the best food delivery people
2019-04-07T23:13:26 < bitmask> well with places like doordash you are trying to do it as fast as possible to get to the next delivery and make more, so I think they are already in that phase
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2019-04-07T23:14:05 < bitmask> if you work for a restaurant and you are the only driver then it doesnt really matter
2019-04-07T23:14:17 < jadew> also, I like to create a relationship with the people delivering my food
2019-04-07T23:14:29 < jadew> so they know I'm not a jerk and not spit in my food
2019-04-07T23:14:33 < bitmask> I get some regulars
2019-04-07T23:14:38 < bitmask> but anyway I gotta go
2019-04-07T23:14:40 < bitmask> later guys
2019-04-07T23:14:46 < jadew> have fun
2019-04-07T23:14:47 < kakimir> jadew just overthink too much
2019-04-07T23:15:07 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c700:d26:cc57:c2d:a688:e7e5] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2019-04-07T23:16:41 < jadew> kakimir, it's why I got married
2019-04-07T23:16:53 < jadew> so I don't end up with too much spit in my food
2019-04-07T23:16:56 < Cracki> don't marry the cook. she might poison you
2019-04-07T23:17:00 < s34n> PaulFertser: is there some test I can do to see if I can communicate at all with the stm32 over the usb-serial adapter?
2019-04-07T23:18:11 < rajkosto> are you in bootloader mode even s34n ?
2019-04-07T23:18:26 < s34n> rajkosto: what is that?
2019-04-07T23:18:38 < s34n> you mean boot0 high?
2019-04-07T23:18:44 < rajkosto> swap the boot0 jumper to GND, boot1 to VCC
2019-04-07T23:19:08 < rajkosto> errr other way around
2019-04-07T23:19:27 < s34n> rajkosto: yes. I've done that
2019-04-07T23:19:31 < rajkosto> then reset the stm32
2019-04-07T23:19:47 < rajkosto> you can now use the bootloader protocol over USART1
2019-04-07T23:20:25 < s34n> rajkosto: you mean press the reset button? I've done that
2019-04-07T23:21:12 < rajkosto> connect external RX to PA9 and external TX to PA10
2019-04-07T23:21:32 < rajkosto> any baud rate, parity even, use stm32flash or "Demonstration Flash Utility"
2019-04-07T23:21:42 < s34n> rajkosto: done that
2019-04-07T23:21:45 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-04-07_22-21-41_An1Fa9cC9.png
2019-04-07T23:22:05 < rajkosto> it should give you a green light after Next
2019-04-07T23:22:14 < rajkosto> otherwise swap rx and tx and try again
2019-04-07T23:22:21 < s34n> tried that
2019-04-07T23:22:30 < rajkosto> the stm32 needs to be powered obviously
2019-04-07T23:22:36 < s34n> it is
2019-04-07T23:22:46 < s34n> red pwr light
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2019-04-07T23:24:19 < s34n> rajkosto: just press and release the reset button, right? no 10 sec hold or anything?
2019-04-07T23:24:27 < rajkosto> no hold
2019-04-07T23:25:59 < s34n> rajkosto: so I'm looking for some test that will let me know if there is any actual serial comms to the stm32
2019-04-07T23:26:31 < s34n> something I can send to my usb port and and get back some response
2019-04-07T23:27:00 < s34n> it would be nice if I got some feedback even when I press reset
2019-04-07T23:27:48 < rajkosto> bootloader protocol is here https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/51/5f/03/1e/bd/9b/45/be/CD00264342.pdf/files/CD00264342.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00264342.pdf
2019-04-07T23:28:35 < rajkosto> you can test to see if your usb thing works by shorting its TX with its RX and then opening a console in putty with serial and no parity and see if you get the chars you type echoed back
2019-04-07T23:28:49 < rajkosto> (the LED on your usb thingy will also blink usually)
2019-04-07T23:29:43 < kakimir> do you know any extra long ground leads to oscope probe?
2019-04-07T23:31:48 < Steffanx> you dont want that :P
2019-04-07T23:31:58 < Cracki> you want feedback? loop back adapter's tx to rx, you get echo
2019-04-07T23:32:51 < rajkosto> he meant does the stm32 output stuff in bootloader mode even if you give it nothing, it doesnt because it needs data sent from host to calibrate its auto-baudrate thingy
2019-04-07T23:33:23 < s34n> the tx/rx loopback works
2019-04-07T23:33:36 < Cracki> then you can rely on that at least
2019-04-07T23:33:49 < s34n> right
2019-04-07T23:34:06 < Cracki> "any baudrate" means it MUST see a certain bit sequence first
2019-04-07T23:34:15 < Cracki> and nothing else before that, after it got reset
2019-04-07T23:34:24 < Cracki> so it's a good idea to not fuck with wires after resetting it
2019-04-07T23:34:32 < s34n> so I'm looking for something I can send that will bounce off the stm32 and give me a response
2019-04-07T23:34:49 < Cracki> if you send it random data, that's not good enough
2019-04-07T23:34:57 < rajkosto> you can only do that if you program the stm32 and then not use bootloader mode
2019-04-07T23:35:05 < Cracki> you must send that bit sequence first. that's what stm32flash probably does
2019-04-07T23:35:24 < s34n> stm32flash init fails
2019-04-07T23:35:34 < Cracki> fails saying what?
2019-04-07T23:35:51 < s34n> "Failed to init device"
2019-04-07T23:36:09 < Cracki> you're on windows, right? get hterm or something, where you can send 0x7F manually
2019-04-07T23:36:18 < Cracki> it will reply with an ack byte if that was successful
2019-04-07T23:36:44 < Cracki> or use python or whatever. open port, send 0x7f, expect ack byte
2019-04-07T23:36:48 < s34n> linux
2019-04-07T23:37:14 < Cracki> >>> import serial # and so on
2019-04-07T23:37:37 < Cracki> you might wanna search for "Failed to init device" in stm32flash source code
2019-04-07T23:38:07 < s34n> Cracki: I need to be 8E1 to do it manually, no?
2019-04-07T23:38:15 < Cracki> whatever the protocol wants
2019-04-07T23:38:47 < Cracki> but yes, even partity, 1 stop bit
2019-04-07T23:38:51 < rajkosto> bootloader always wants even parity
2019-04-07T23:39:13 < s34n> flow control?
2019-04-07T23:39:27 < Cracki> returned ack byte is 0x79
2019-04-07T23:39:31 < rajkosto> no flow control, ever
2019-04-07T23:40:09 < Cracki> if you have a logic analyzer, use it to catch anything the device might return, even if it's not uart in proper baud rate
2019-04-07T23:40:33 < s34n> k. so I need to figure out how to type 0x7f
2019-04-07T23:40:51 < Cracki> you use the appropriate program that lets you enter hex data
2019-04-07T23:41:03 -!- Jybz [~jibz@37.175.110.208] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2019-04-07T23:41:33 < Cracki> if you have no better option, use http://www.der-hammer.info/terminal/ for linux
2019-04-07T23:44:07 < Cracki> there are commands you can send (0x00 get) but those will only work after this auto-rate stuff has succeeded
2019-04-07T23:44:33 < s34n> I have a putty connection
2019-04-07T23:44:55 < Cracki> putty for linux?
2019-04-07T23:45:05 < s34n> yes
2019-04-07T23:46:19 < s34n> easy ui for setting 8E1, etc
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2019-04-07T23:52:30 < s34n> 0x7f should just be the DEL key
2019-04-07T23:56:36 < s34n> Cracki: 0x79 should print in a terminal as "y", no?
2019-04-07T23:57:39 < Cracki> when I was 9 I tried memorizing the ascii table. I gave that up when I realized every computer can show me one
2019-04-07T23:58:14 < Cracki> do not rely on "should"
2019-04-07T23:58:46 < Cracki> especially for anything that's not printable and "normal"
2019-04-07T23:59:53 < qyx> wat, are you pressing del and hoping it sends 0x7f?
--- Day changed Mon Apr 08 2019
2019-04-08T00:00:18 < qyx> without seeing the actual value?
2019-04-08T00:01:24 < s34n> yes. I'm trying to think of some way to send 0x7f
2019-04-08T00:02:24 < qyx> uhm, echo "\x7f" > /dev/... for example
2019-04-08T00:03:01 < qyx> or 5 lines in your favourite language
2019-04-08T00:03:59 < s34n> qyx: ok. but I need to capture the response
2019-04-08T00:04:28 < qyx> add a 6th line
2019-04-08T00:04:59 < qyx> or cat /dev/... | hexdump -c
2019-04-08T00:05:03 < qyx> or similar
2019-04-08T00:05:12 < s34n> if I tail -f /dev/... while echoing, I get nothing back
2019-04-08T00:05:33 < qyx> tail?
2019-04-08T00:06:04 < s34n> yes
2019-04-08T00:07:18 < s34n> hoping to see something come back on /dev/ttyACM0
2019-04-08T00:07:34 < s34n> hoping "y" comes back
2019-04-08T00:07:46 < s34n> but it doesn't
2019-04-08T00:08:49 < qyx> first, I am not sure tail works in this case
2019-04-08T00:09:17 < qyx> second, if you dont't configure your terminal, it works in line mode
2019-04-08T00:09:46 < qyx> so it won't print you anything until it sees a newline
2019-04-08T00:10:45 < qyx> stty icanon is your friend
2019-04-08T00:11:13 < qyx> or use a proper serial terminal as Cracki says
2019-04-08T00:11:15 < rajkosto> also you must configure parity mode on /dev/ttyACM0
2019-04-08T00:11:25 < qyx> that too
2019-04-08T00:19:41 < s34n> parity is set to even according to stty
2019-04-08T00:24:42 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:6ba6:75fe:1641:e602:829] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2019-04-08T00:25:10 < s34n> I'm getting a response. I have tried to set ctlecho so it can be interpreted, but it stays echoctl
2019-04-08T00:46:03 < Steffanx> Random music for kakimir https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moaPl-SqzEc
2019-04-08T00:49:01 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/19oTVX-MuutMEce-b32ZwOUeSMfICsfRn/view?usp=sharing when somewhere is 230V leak to board and all it does is fuse that joint
2019-04-08T00:49:26 < kakimir> good musics Steffanx 
2019-04-08T01:05:01 < s34n> qyx: ok. I wrote a little script to do it. every other time I send 0x7f I get back 0xff. The other times I get back 0x00 
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2019-04-08T01:17:03 < s34n> if I send 0x00,0xff I get back 0xff,0xff
2019-04-08T01:19:10 < mawk> how do you send it ?
2019-04-08T01:19:20 < mawk> not echo "\x7f" ?
2019-04-08T01:19:29 < mawk> you need printf or echo -e for escape characters
2019-04-08T01:20:38 < s34n> no. I wrote a program to do it
2019-04-08T01:20:47 < qyx> s34n: so it works?
2019-04-08T01:20:52 < qyx> or not
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2019-04-08T01:21:12 < s34n> I can talk to the stm32, but I can't init it
2019-04-08T01:21:56 < s34n> qyx: I'm reading the app note you linked, but I'm not sure it says to send 0xf7 to init
2019-04-08T01:22:26 < rajkosto> isnt 0xff NACK
2019-04-08T01:22:30 < rajkosto> since you didnt gvive it proper checksum
2019-04-08T01:23:13 < s34n> what it says is, "a start bit, 0x7f data bits, even parity bit and a stop bit"
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2019-04-08T01:24:38 < s34n> rajkosto: NACK is 0x1f
2019-04-08T01:27:12 < s34n> huh. I just send 0x7f,0x00,0xff and got back 0x79,0x79,0xb, 0x22
2019-04-08T01:28:08 < s34n> but when I send it again I get 0x1f
2019-04-08T01:28:33 < rajkosto> so its working
2019-04-08T01:31:08 < s34n> I guess.
2019-04-08T01:31:23 < s34n> I just ran stm32flash again and it worked
2019-04-08T01:31:28 < s34n> (I think)
2019-04-08T01:32:39 < s34n> now I guess I connect usb directly and start testing
2019-04-08T01:33:05 < s34n> (if the usb works without adjusting resistor)
2019-04-08T01:33:37 < mawk> depends on your computer
2019-04-08T01:33:50 < mawk> else add 1.8k between 3V3 and PA12
2019-04-08T01:33:59 < mawk> but it will probably work without that
2019-04-08T01:34:09 < mawk> you can also desolder R10 and add 1.5k, that's what I did
2019-04-08T01:35:26 < s34n> right
2019-04-08T01:36:36 < rajkosto> i didnt even have to do anything
2019-04-08T01:36:48 < rajkosto> the set usb to GPIO PushPull and drive 0 works for renumeration too
2019-04-08T01:36:51 < s34n> I'm crossing my fingers.
2019-04-08T01:37:04 < s34n> 603 is not in my wheel house to solder
2019-04-08T01:37:15 < mawk> I did it with a normal iron
2019-04-08T01:37:18 < mawk> you can do it too
2019-04-08T01:37:57 < mawk> but it's maybe not necessary, just try it
2019-04-08T01:40:17 < rajkosto> 0603 is ezmod
2019-04-08T01:40:42 < rajkosto> 0402 right next to each other get a little tricky
2019-04-08T01:40:46 < rajkosto> 0201 is impoissible wihtout scope
2019-04-08T01:40:58 < mawk> why do you all say scope
2019-04-08T01:41:03 < mawk> scope is already taken as an abbreviated noun
2019-04-08T01:41:16 < mawk> now I need to think to know if it's microscope or oscilloscope
2019-04-08T01:41:22 < rajkosto> oscilloscope for your eyeballs
2019-04-08T01:41:53 < mawk> I saw videos where you would just put the smd resistor on the pad, heat the pad and the resistor would magically line up
2019-04-08T01:41:54 < mawk> not at all
2019-04-08T01:42:14 < mawk> but with a tool to hold it down it's easy
2019-04-08T01:42:17 < mawk> even with shaky hands
2019-04-08T01:42:19 < rajkosto> i just use a toothpick
2019-04-08T01:42:36 < rajkosto> usually with flux residue on it so its nice and sticky for moving parts around
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2019-04-08T01:52:59 < s34n> 0.1" pins are still a challenge for me :)
2019-04-08T01:53:15 < s34n> no photos allowed
2019-04-08T01:53:20 < Cracki> s34n, you send 0x7f ONCE. the device needs that to detect baud rate. you DON'T sent that AGAIN. only ONCE after device reset.
2019-04-08T01:53:35 < Cracki> at least you got 0x79 back, that's good
2019-04-08T01:54:05 < s34n> Cracki: yeah. I understand that
2019-04-08T01:54:14 < s34n> Cracki: it finally worked
2019-04-08T01:54:45 < s34n> I don't know why it didn't work for stm32flash before I messed around
2019-04-08T01:55:03 < Cracki> helping hand with glass, makes 0.1" very easy. also a chisel tip, has a nice flat side for best heat transfer.
2019-04-08T01:55:17 < s34n> mawk: do I need boot0 hi to upload sketches?
2019-04-08T01:55:20 < Cracki> an lots of light light light
2019-04-08T01:55:51 < Cracki> arduino doesn't use the builtin (rom) bootloaders. it uses its own.
2019-04-08T01:56:32 < rajkosto> you need boot0 hi to use stm32flash
2019-04-08T01:56:35 < Cracki> I think it can use the rom uart bl but not sure... usually it's supposed to use usb, assert a control line to reset the stm32, which causes "stm32duino" bootloader to run, which listens to usb
2019-04-08T01:56:50 < rajkosto> if you are using jtag or swd or bootloaders residing in flash you want boot0 low (or it doesnt matter in case of jtag/swd)
2019-04-08T01:57:22 < Cracki> stm32flash uses uart (not usb) and rom bootloader... and swd uses none of that, just swclk+swdio (and ground)
2019-04-08T01:58:00 < s34n> I (think I) flashed in arduino bootloader. Now I've connected direct over usb
2019-04-08T01:58:09 < Cracki> grab ref manual, find boot0/1 table
2019-04-08T01:58:13 < s34n> so for that, I set boot0 back low?
2019-04-08T01:58:23 < mawk> yes
2019-04-08T01:58:24 < Cracki> you set it to boot from flash
2019-04-08T01:58:31 < mawk> boot0 boot1 = 0 0
2019-04-08T01:59:08 < s34n> k
2019-04-08T01:59:21 < s34n> no I get blinking pc13
2019-04-08T01:59:25 < s34n> *now
2019-04-08T02:00:14 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-08T02:00:22 < mawk> good
2019-04-08T02:00:33 < mawk> you flashed something and that something runs
2019-04-08T02:00:36 < mawk> congrats
2019-04-08T02:01:08 < s34n> actually, I didn't flash the blink. That's just happening
2019-04-08T02:02:09 < rajkosto> the stm32duino bootloaders come in pc13 flavours
2019-04-08T02:02:16 < rajkosto> if its flashing then its working i guess
2019-04-08T02:02:16 < Cracki> bl says waiting
2019-04-08T02:03:07 < Cracki> if you haven't already, order an stlink clone. they're less than 2 bucks on aliex
2019-04-08T02:03:29 < mawk> he already did but is too impatient
2019-04-08T02:03:37 < Cracki> heh, then this was a fun exercise
2019-04-08T02:03:59 < Cracki> last time i checked out stm32duino, they had contradictory documentation and they didn't know which bootloader to use...
2019-04-08T02:04:18 < Cracki> there's a "hid" bootloader, some other flavor, ...
2019-04-08T02:05:08 < Cracki> and going the documented route (adding an url in the board manager and using that package) is deprecated because outdated. you're supposed to clone the git repo isntead, but that's not mentioned in the wiki
2019-04-08T02:05:34 < Cracki> very fucky. on top of that it seems they have some weirdos from ST who fuck around in the source
2019-04-08T02:05:49 < mawk> hid bootloader
2019-04-08T02:05:49 < mawk> lol
2019-04-08T02:07:28 < Cracki> https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32/issues/411#issuecomment-470013935
2019-04-08T02:07:57 < Cracki> it must make sense to them, but it's madness
2019-04-08T02:11:28 < rajkosto> that comment is wrong anyway, maple mini has a BOOT button that you hold while holding reset and you end up in boottloader
2019-04-08T02:11:42 < Cracki> exactly
2019-04-08T02:11:53 < Cracki> well, the rom bootloader
2019-04-08T02:12:01 < Cracki> which expects input on rx/tx pins, but not on usb
2019-04-08T02:12:16 < Cracki> and I wanted shit working via usb, and the f103 has no rom bl that uses usb
2019-04-08T02:12:48 < Cracki> so for all those f103 ones, if you want usb, you're stuck with some kind of bl in flash, and they are right now ripping everything to shreds and redoing it
2019-04-08T02:13:46 < Cracki> this used to be in a usable, stable state, maybe a year ago
2019-04-08T02:14:56 < mawk> but even in the example codes from st you straight have USB DFU bootloaders ready to use
2019-04-08T02:16:15 < Cracki> their bl seems to always be active, concurrent to the sketch, so it can always receive reset and programming via usb
2019-04-08T02:16:27 < Cracki> on top of serial usb the sketch might use
2019-04-08T02:16:33 < mawk> I see
2019-04-08T02:16:41 < mawk> but then the sketch must be cooperative
2019-04-08T02:16:53 < mawk> if the sketch intercepts the UART interrupt the bootloader is gone
2019-04-08T02:17:07 < Cracki> if you don't have that, you'd have to press reset, and either the host side has to notice the changing usb devices quickly enough, or... i don't know
2019-04-08T02:17:15 < s34n> I did the board manager url thing like the docs say
2019-04-08T02:17:20 < Cracki> yes I assume they make the sketch cooperate
2019-04-08T02:17:25 < Cracki> huh
2019-04-08T02:17:32 < s34n> and it tells me there is no upload-reset, even though there is
2019-04-08T02:17:54 < Cracki> how do you upload, which option? does it give you "stlink / serial / BMP"?
2019-04-08T02:18:14 < Cracki> which bootloader did you flash?
2019-04-08T02:18:33 < mawk> that stm32duino things looks like a hassle for now
2019-04-08T02:18:47 < Cracki> maybe it works better on linux... I was trying this on windows
2019-04-08T02:18:53 < s34n> option STM32duino bootloader
2019-04-08T02:19:07 < Cracki> then they must have done some work since beginning of march
2019-04-08T02:19:31 < s34n> this is dated 3.31
2019-04-08T02:20:05 < s34n> but it can't find .arduino15/packages/stm32duino/tools/stm32tools/2019.3.31/linux/upload-reset even though it exists
2019-04-08T02:24:07 < Cracki> >If you already have the Arduino IDE installed and it's a newer version, see the Boards Manager package method of installation. Note: this method is deprecated and not supported in forum!
2019-04-08T02:24:21 < Cracki> lovely, then just rip it out of the damn wiki you clowns
2019-04-08T02:24:48 < mawk> lol
2019-04-08T02:25:09 < Cracki> the "download git repo zip" points to some individual's git repo, while they do their stuff on the stm32duino git account
2019-04-08T02:25:15 < Cracki> so nice and consistent
2019-04-08T02:31:57 < mawk> usb is so complicated
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2019-04-08T02:32:07 < mawk> who needs that anyway
2019-04-08T02:32:11 < mawk> serial works
2019-04-08T02:38:05 < rajkosto> i needed it yesterday instead of uart apparently
2019-04-08T02:39:11 < rajkosto> even tho this way is more convenient for me (use ft2232 for both jtag and uart and have only one usb port instead of 2)
2019-04-08T02:42:58 < s34n> heh. looks like the resistor is going to be a problem. no /dev/ttyACM0 when connected directly
2019-04-08T02:43:08 < s34n> no ttyUSBx either
2019-04-08T02:44:07 < mawk> the micro usb isn't wiggly s34n ?
2019-04-08T02:44:13 < mawk> if you have another board to try do it
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2019-04-08T03:45:44 < upgrdman> anyone know of something like a usb-powered thermous... but cold, not hot
2019-04-08T03:51:02 < Ultrasauce> there are peltier coolers yes
2019-04-08T03:51:09 < Ultrasauce> they are not awesome
2019-04-08T03:52:31 < upgrdman> ya i've seen usb cold plates. they suck ass. that's why i want something like a usb thermous... so the peltier is adhered to the cup surface for good thermal conduction, and an insulated bottle to give the weak peltier a chance to keep liquid cool
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2019-04-08T04:00:43 < bitmask__> booo, didn't make $100 tonight
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2019-04-08T04:04:02 < dongs> gambling like a faggot?
2019-04-08T04:04:58 < bitmask__> uhh no
2019-04-08T04:05:03 < bitmask__> part time job
2019-04-08T04:05:06 < bitmask__> doordash
2019-04-08T04:15:43 < dongs> i thought of you more like an uber eats guy
2019-04-08T04:18:19 < bitmask__> heh, my gf does both.  seems like uber eats has a lot of small orders where you only make like $3-5 but is more consistent.  doordash is usually $7-10 but dies out when its not peak hours
2019-04-08T04:18:56 < dongs> oh is that same shit as eats?
2019-04-08T04:19:00 < bitmask__> yea
2019-04-08T04:27:03 < mawk> on bike bitmask__ ?
2019-04-08T04:27:08 < bitmask__> no
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2019-04-08T04:27:18 < bitmask__> car
2019-04-08T04:27:25 < mawk> nice
2019-04-08T04:27:35 < dongs> is that worth it tho with gas prices?
2019-04-08T04:27:55 < dongs> if I was brokebitch i'd do eats delivery by like, EUC or something :)
2019-04-08T04:27:59 < mawk> also you have to park*
2019-04-08T04:28:03 < mawk> -*
2019-04-08T04:28:17 < mawk> if you phone the client and tell him to come down he will rate you -1 stars
2019-04-08T04:28:31 < bitmask__> i mean my car has a horrible mpg but its still worth it to keep my car up and running until I get a real job
2019-04-08T04:30:09 < bitmask__> last two nights I made $85 + $72 = $157 - ~$20 in gas, so lets just say $135 / 8.5 hours = $15.88/hr
2019-04-08T04:30:17 < mawk> nice rate
2019-04-08T04:30:30 < mawk> but they drop after a while no ?
2019-04-08T04:30:38 < bitmask__> rates or deliveries?
2019-04-08T04:30:40 < kakimir> how much is your Mpg?
2019-04-08T04:30:43 < mawk> when the application launches in your country it starts with a high rate to lure in drivers
2019-04-08T04:30:51 < bitmask__> 17
2019-04-08T04:31:01 < mawk> rate is just averaged delivery
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2019-04-08T04:31:03 < mawk> no ?
2019-04-08T04:31:09 < mawk> without the gas
2019-04-08T04:31:13 < kakimir> my car - 50mpg
2019-04-08T04:32:27 < kakimir> I mean what kind of car you are driving to go under 25mpg?
2019-04-08T04:32:37 < bitmask__> they give you a guaranteed amount for a delivery before you accept it, that takes into account distance traveled, if you have to place the order yourself(rare), and a bunch of other things.  then if you accept it and do the delivery you may get that amount or a bit more depending on how much tip they left
2019-04-08T04:33:45 < mawk> I see
2019-04-08T04:34:51 < bitmask__> and occasionally you get a cash tip on top if the person is feeling generous
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2019-04-08T04:38:15 < kakimir> I would change car if I was you
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2019-04-08T04:41:55 < kakimir> tell me again why you are not changing it? does the car have any value?
2019-04-08T04:42:14 < bitmask__> I like it
2019-04-08T04:42:35 < kakimir> what is it?
2019-04-08T04:42:47 < kakimir> let us judge
2019-04-08T04:42:51 < bitmask__> 2006 acura tl
2019-04-08T04:43:26 < bitmask__> if you didn't notice, I was ignoring your questions/statements, it doesn't matter what you think of it
2019-04-08T04:44:37 < kakimir> it probably moves pretty fast?
2019-04-08T04:44:43 < kakimir> 258hp
2019-04-08T04:44:51 < bitmask__> yea, its fun to drive
2019-04-08T04:49:44 < dongs> lol 2006 car
2019-04-08T04:50:49 < bitmask__> so funny
2019-04-08T04:51:50 < kakimir> 2001-2004 the best era
2019-04-08T04:52:18 < kakimir> after that regulations made diesel cars suck until properly modified
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2019-04-08T05:08:45 < s34n> mawk: if my D+ is a 10K, what would I need between PA12 and 3.3V? Is 1.8K right?
2019-04-08T05:11:08 < mawk> 1.8 yes
2019-04-08T05:11:18 < mawk> you can also remove R10 and put 1.5
2019-04-08T05:11:36 < mawk> that's what I did, but I had a 152 smd resistor lying around on another board
2019-04-08T05:11:43 < mawk> if you don't you can use normal resistors
2019-04-08T05:11:45 < mawk> but it's very ugly
2019-04-08T05:11:52 < s34n> mawk: I can't do that right now. I don't have 152s laying around
2019-04-08T05:12:01 < mawk> some tolerance is acceptable I guess
2019-04-08T05:12:04 < mawk> like from 1200 to 1800
2019-04-08T05:12:13 < mawk> do you have several bluepills ?
2019-04-08T05:12:19 < mawk> it could also be a bad µusb connector
2019-04-08T05:12:24 < mawk> I have one bad like this
2019-04-08T05:12:31 < mawk> so you could try another one
2019-04-08T05:12:48 < s34n> I have more than one pill, but I don't want to cannabalize them
2019-04-08T05:13:12 < mawk> you don't have to solder it to try
2019-04-08T05:13:24 < mawk> actually yes you have, since you don't have stlink
2019-04-08T05:13:27 < mawk> well wait for the stlink then
2019-04-08T05:13:39 < mawk> or just solder the uart pins for the rom bootloader and remove them after
2019-04-08T05:13:45 < mawk> with some copper braid
2019-04-08T05:13:47 < s34n> wait? wait?
2019-04-08T05:13:56 < s34n> :)
2019-04-08T05:13:59 < mawk> lol
2019-04-08T05:15:20 < s34n> I can get by with as low as 1.2K?
2019-04-08T05:15:30 < s34n> but no higher than 1.8K?
2019-04-08T05:15:38 < mawk> that's just numbers I'm throwing around
2019-04-08T05:15:42 < mawk> but I'm assuming so yes
2019-04-08T05:15:47 < mawk> that there is a certain tolerance
2019-04-08T05:15:53 < mawk> 1.80000000000000000000000000000000000k doesn't exist
2019-04-08T05:15:59 < mawk> exact values don't exist in the physical world
2019-04-08T05:15:59 < s34n> I have 2K
2019-04-08T05:16:08 < mawk> yeah that sounds ok
2019-04-08T05:16:11 < mawk> try this
2019-04-08T05:16:26 < mawk> that's 1.67k
2019-04-08T05:16:35 < mawk> when you add this in // to the 10k
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2019-04-08T05:18:07 < s34n> hm. still no ttyACM or ttyUSB
2019-04-08T05:18:16 < mawk> but stuff in lsusb ?
2019-04-08T05:18:34 < mawk> watch -n1 lsusb
2019-04-08T05:18:39 < mawk> run this in a terminal tab
2019-04-08T05:18:46 < mawk> then watch when you plug or unplug if entries change
2019-04-08T05:19:42 < s34n> oh. it did add 1eaf:0003
2019-04-08T05:19:46 < mawk> good
2019-04-08T05:19:48 < mawk> so something is working
2019-04-08T05:19:52 < mawk> usb is working
2019-04-08T05:19:55 < mawk> problem is somewhere else
2019-04-08T05:20:22 < s34n> :) it adds it without the extra resistor
2019-04-08T05:20:29 < mawk> yeah depends on your computer
2019-04-08T05:20:33 < mawk> mine works without it too
2019-04-08T05:20:39 < mawk> but I figured out it would be cleaner with the proper value anyway
2019-04-08T05:20:50 < mawk> but I have a stlink, I use the usb for something else
2019-04-08T05:21:23 < mawk> if you ever want to buy a real st board that isn't broken and is well supported you can buy a nucleo board
2019-04-08T05:22:01 < mawk> it has a stlink programmer embedded
2019-04-08T05:22:14 < mawk> stlink v2.1 so it has a virtual com port too, even less cables
2019-04-08T05:22:23 < mawk> so you can use it to program your bluepill, and anything really
2019-04-08T05:23:13 < mawk> you can even get nucleo-32 boards which are small
2019-04-08T05:39:44 < s34n> mawk: it needs the stm32duino bootloader to even show up in lsusb?
2019-04-08T05:43:41 < mawk> yes
2019-04-08T05:43:47 < mawk> if boot0 and boot1 are both zero
2019-04-08T05:43:52 < mawk> even if they aren't actually
2019-04-08T05:44:00 < mawk> stm32f103c8 doesn't have usb dfu bootloader
2019-04-08T05:44:15 < mawk> if anything shows up at all it means either the bootloader or the sketch is using usb
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2019-04-08T06:11:07 < s34n> mawk: I just flashed the bootloader on a 2nd board without solder
2019-04-08T06:11:17 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-08T06:11:18 < s34n> so it shows up in lsusb now
2019-04-08T06:11:25 < s34n> but still not tty
2019-04-08T06:11:27 < mawk> but it should work as well as before since it showed up in lsusb before
2019-04-08T06:11:28 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-08T06:11:33 < mawk> bootloader issue, driver issue, I don't know
2019-04-08T06:11:44 < mawk> if it's supposed to be /dev/ttyACM0 then no drivers are required
2019-04-08T06:12:07 < mawk> otherwise they could be required, if it's generic usb serial interface you might add manually the usb identifiers to the usbserial driver
2019-04-08T06:12:11 < mawk> but unlikely that you have to do that
2019-04-08T06:12:38 < s34n> it's supposed to be ttyACM0
2019-04-08T06:12:55 < s34n> according to https://wiki.stm32duino.com/index.php?title=Installation_on_Linux
2019-04-08T06:13:52 < s34n> the shell script for uploading sketches also uses ttyACM0
2019-04-08T06:16:26 < mawk> good
2019-04-08T06:16:30 < mawk> no drivers required then
2019-04-08T06:16:34 < mawk> I have to go, good luck
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2019-04-08T09:04:32 < qyx> more Steffanns more waffels
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2019-04-08T11:34:43 < dongs> zyp, sent wires info
2019-04-08T11:44:33 < zyp> saw, replied
2019-04-08T11:45:09 < dongs> I went to ITE Tech office this afternoon
2019-04-08T11:45:14 < dongs> HTC building was tehre and Vishay
2019-04-08T11:45:31 < zyp> cool
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2019-04-08T13:06:54 < invzim> zyp: I'm warming to the tag-connect idea :)  Do you use the legged version?
2019-04-08T13:09:13 < zyp> no, the legged footprint is stupid
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2019-04-08T13:22:32 < jadew> BrainDamage, so far, it looks like the difference between a 11 GHz N-type to SMA adapter ($10) and an 18 GHz one ($70), is ~ 1.2 dB @ 20 GHz
2019-04-08T13:22:58 < jadew> and less than 0.2 maybe 0.3 dB at and below 18 GHz
2019-04-08T13:23:51 < karlp> sample size of ?
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2019-04-08T13:23:59 < jadew> one of course
2019-04-08T13:24:06 < karlp> hooray for science.
2019-04-08T13:24:16  * karlp buys 1000 11Ghz adatpers for his 20ghz project.
2019-04-08T13:25:09 < jadew> heh, it's still good anecdotal evidence
2019-04-08T13:25:32 < jadew> odds are most of them are in this ballpark
2019-04-08T13:25:55 < jadew> the chances of me getting one of the best ones and also happened to test its performance are slim
2019-04-08T13:26:15 < karlp> "I want my sample to be representitive, therefore it is"
2019-04-08T13:27:48 < jadew> in my experience most connectors of the same type behave almost exactly the same
2019-04-08T13:27:53 < jadew> same shit happens at the same frequencies
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2019-04-08T13:28:26 < jadew> with some variation, but if they have a crappy response, it will be there, not matter what
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2019-04-08T14:48:01 < karlp> heh, six R52s, plus 3 M4s.
2019-04-08T14:48:41 < karlp> 16meg of phase change memory
2019-04-08T14:48:48 < mawk> [12:25:32] <jadew> odds are most of them are in this ballpark
2019-04-08T14:48:59 < mawk> that's not how probability works :(
2019-04-08T14:49:31 < karlp> it is if you believe it enough :)
2019-04-08T14:51:37 < rajkosto> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mini-TS80-Portable-Electric-Soldering-Iron-Adjustable-Temperature-Digital-Solder-Station-OLED-Display-USB-Type-C/32904980528.html the price hasnt been this low before i dont think
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2019-04-08T15:11:19 < zyp> karlp, context?
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2019-04-08T15:22:32 < karlp> stm "Stellar" 
2019-04-08T15:22:42 < karlp> automotive cpu thing
2019-04-08T15:24:29 < karlp> https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/landing-page/stellar-32-bit-automotive-mcus.html
2019-04-08T15:25:34 < karlp> fucking hell st's website is slow
2019-04-08T15:32:06 < zyp> ah
2019-04-08T15:33:31 < zyp> that page was utterly worthless
2019-04-08T15:33:59 < zyp> by six R52s, do you mean three lockstep pairs?
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2019-04-08T15:37:28 < zyp> is there a databrief or something available?
2019-04-08T15:38:58 < Thorn> if I TX +2dBm and a device 1 m away receives -5...-6 dBm, is it a good antenna? (I remember playing with BLE and having 40 or more dB of loss at the same distance)
2019-04-08T15:41:28 < zyp> hang on, let me recall some link budget math
2019-04-08T15:42:29 < Thorn> s/antenna/pair of antennas/
2019-04-08T15:43:13 < Thorn> this one actually https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2Pcs-Lot-Omni-868MHz-High-Gain-uhf-Antenna-CDSENET-TX868-JK-20-SMA-Male-868-MHz/32812387108.html
2019-04-08T15:44:17 < Thorn> (TIL: high quality coaxial wire makes signal transmission more rapidly)
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2019-04-08T15:45:55 < jadew> I don't know much about antennas, but it sounds unreasonably good if the power you put into the antenna is 2 dBm
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2019-04-08T15:46:57 < Thorn> I set my sx1276 to 0dBm but then found in the code that it is clamped to +2 dBm if you use the PA_BOOST pin
2019-04-08T15:47:33 < Thorn> I don't have a proper power meter :/
2019-04-08T15:48:38 < jadew> what you could do is measure with what you have the output of your device and use the same thing to measure what you get from the antenna (make sure you're not frying your measuring device in the process - I assume it's a SDR)
2019-04-08T15:48:39 < qyx> Thorn: if I transmit 0dBm on 433MHz, usually I receive in the order of -35dBm at ~1m
2019-04-08T15:49:17 < Thorn> the -5...-6 figure is RSSI from another sx1276
2019-04-08T15:49:23 < zyp> uh, if my math is correct, a 1m distance between sender and transceiver accounts for a 40dB attenuation alone, before you factor in antenna gains
2019-04-08T15:49:32 < Thorn> maybe it's measured after the LNA or something
2019-04-08T15:49:34 < qyx> yes, that is about correct
2019-04-08T15:49:36 < zyp> (on 2.4G)
2019-04-08T15:50:19 < qyx> -5dBm RSSI is probably wrong
2019-04-08T15:50:29 < Thorn> ok will need to read the datasheet more, thanks
2019-04-08T15:51:01 < qyx> I remembed it took me some time to get proper values
2019-04-08T15:51:20 < qyx> but idk what was the problem actually
2019-04-08T15:51:34 < Thorn> empty channel is around -88 dBm
2019-04-08T15:52:10 < jadew> that's your noise floor
2019-04-08T15:52:19 < qyx> what freq/bitrate/modulation?
2019-04-08T15:52:33 < jadew> *IF* the dBm values you're getting are actually correct
2019-04-08T15:53:07 < Thorn> 864 MH, FSK, 500 bps (reduced from 50K bps so I can see the packets on the waterfall), 25 kHz deviation
2019-04-08T15:53:15 < Thorn> *864 MHz
2019-04-08T15:53:37 < qyx> I would expect under -120dBm
2019-04-08T15:53:39 < zyp> oh, I assumed 2.4G in my calculation
2019-04-08T15:54:15 < zyp> 864 MHz should have around 31 dB attenuation over 1m
2019-04-08T15:59:09 < Thorn> the init code adds +6 dBm to the measurement via RssiOffset but even with that subtracted it's still -11 dBm, far from -31
2019-04-08T16:06:58 < zyp> sounds weird that the receiver can even handle that large numbers without saturating :)
2019-04-08T16:07:00 < qyx> isn't there some LoRa related thing which needs to be disabled?
2019-04-08T16:07:10 < qyx> isn't it including some CSP processing gain or what
2019-04-08T16:07:23 < qyx> *spread spectrum
2019-04-08T16:12:43 < Thorn> dunno can't find anything about it in the datasheet
2019-04-08T16:29:42 < f3r70rr35f> hello!
2019-04-08T16:31:37 < dongs> zyp, last invoice was EMS
2019-04-08T16:31:41 < dongs> this time she quoted DHL
2019-04-08T16:31:43 < dongs> should it be ems again?
2019-04-08T16:32:19 < dongs> oh i dint mejtion 10 days l/t on the wires
2019-04-08T16:35:19 < zyp> EMS or DHL doesn't matter too much
2019-04-08T16:35:24 < dongs> OK
2019-04-08T16:35:37 < dongs> i dont remember why you wanted ems last time anyway
2019-04-08T16:35:44 < dongs> i think price-wise they're probly same-ish
2019-04-08T16:36:02 < zyp> hmm, probably customs handling fee
2019-04-08T16:36:16 < zyp> EMS has that included in the shipping rate, no surcharge
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2019-04-08T17:02:07 < ub|k-> https://imgur.com/mmj6GaZ.png
2019-04-08T17:02:30 < ub|k-> any clue why I am receiving twice the same response while reading this register
2019-04-08T17:02:47 < ub|k-> (this is a CS43L22, BTW)
2019-04-08T17:02:52 < ub|k-> ?
2019-04-08T17:03:09 < karlp> you still on i2c on f4 disco baord struggles?
2019-04-08T17:03:28 < ub|k-> karlp: well, not struggles, It's been mostly fine lately :D
2019-04-08T17:03:36 < ub|k-> but yeah, this seems weird
2019-04-08T17:03:50 < ub|k-> i should get 1 byte back, that's what the datasheet seems to imply
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2019-04-08T17:07:09 < f3r70rr35f> hi! I'm trying to print the HAL_GetTick() value (uint32_t), which is supposed to be initiated on the main() through the HAL_Init() .. however, HAL_GetTick is always returning 0 ...
2019-04-08T17:09:03 < Teeed> is systick interrupt enabled?
2019-04-08T17:14:33 < invzim> zyp: you use the bottom retention thingie too I presume?
2019-04-08T17:16:51 < f3r70rr35f> Teeed: seems so ... the HAL_Init calls HAL_InitTick( tickpriority=2) 
2019-04-08T17:22:37 < Teeed> f3r70rr35f: can you validate that interrupt gets called? (eg. debugger+breakpoint in handler?)
2019-04-08T17:22:44 < invzim> f3r70rr35f: SystemClock_Config(); called?
2019-04-08T17:23:20 < f3r70rr35f> invzim: yeah
2019-04-08T17:23:33 < f3r70rr35f> just after the hal_init()
2019-04-08T17:24:45 < basdb> would people generally recommend utilizing libopencm3 for development? adds a notion of readability to code, but at perhaps slight cost of performance?
2019-04-08T17:25:03 < rajkosto> i just use what comes with cmsis (stdperiph)
2019-04-08T17:25:26 < karlp> basdb:cperformance cost compared to what? based on what?
2019-04-08T17:29:39 < f3r70rr35f> well, I just need to print some timestamp ... is there a easier way than HAL_GetTick?
2019-04-08T17:32:43 < Thorn> >implying HAL is high performance lol
2019-04-08T17:36:02 < basdb> karlp: libraries have a tendency to sometimes add undesirable overhead and slow down execution depending on what it may be?
2019-04-08T17:36:09 < kakimir> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/fighter-jet-canon-fire-f16-dutch-a8859731.html dutch airforce keeps getting kills
2019-04-08T17:37:07 < kakimir> was it last year last time when mechanic got one kill when loading ammo the cannon went off and destroyed one f16
2019-04-08T17:39:30 < karlp> basdb: right, but what are you comparing against? 
2019-04-08T17:39:31 < qyx> basdb: if you consider ADC1_CR1 = 0xdeadbeaf; as the default way of doing things (which is a topic for another discussion), then there may be a non-zero performance penalty
2019-04-08T17:39:39 < karlp> ^^^
2019-04-08T17:40:24 < basdb> qyx++
2019-04-08T17:40:48 < basdb> i'll give it a whirl and see if it actually affects me. karlp: nothing to compare. just an ignorant assumption on my end.
2019-04-08T17:41:06 < karlp> most people would consider some of that a fair price to pay to avoid later engineers coming to your house with axes and pitchforks though...
2019-04-08T17:41:46 < basdb> making code readable (+ maintanable) solves a lot of problems, and not having to consult the thousand page reference manual quite *as* much
2019-04-08T17:42:14 < basdb> i don't know if libopencm3 is a direct replacement to the firmware libraries handed out by ST for the STM32s, though?
2019-04-08T17:42:31 < basdb> i would imagine those files are still required to build / for the linker?
2019-04-08T17:43:08 < karlp> total replacement.
2019-04-08T17:43:20 < karlp> mixing not advised.
2019-04-08T17:43:22 < qyx> all batteries included
2019-04-08T17:43:33 < qyx> (usually)
2019-04-08T17:43:36 < karlp> (no flashing tools are included)
2019-04-08T17:43:41 < karlp> that's user preference.
2019-04-08T17:43:49 < qyx> sometimes you hit a peripheral without any support though
2019-04-08T17:43:54 < karlp> (you can speak specifically about it in #libopencm3 too...)
2019-04-08T17:44:50 < qyx> btw there was some problem joining it, I am not there since then
2019-04-08T17:45:18 < qyx> oh I know, I cannot join unidentified maybe
2019-04-08T17:50:06 < karlp> yes, that was a spam thing.
2019-04-08T17:50:42 < basdb> karlp: thanks, appreciate the info! :)
2019-04-08T17:51:23 < basdb> already in that channel, but question was 50/50 as it's specific to the stm32
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2019-04-08T17:51:43 < basdb> flashing i've already figured out
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2019-04-08T18:46:49 < jpa-> err, Arduino's String class stores length separately, but doesn't cope with 0x00 in strings
2019-04-08T18:47:35 < jpa-> and instead of cutting the string at the first 0x00, which would be borderline acceptable, it calculates the length correctly but replaces all data after first 0x00 with garbage
2019-04-08T18:48:19 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
2019-04-08T18:50:10 < Thorn> it wouldn't be in the arduino style otherwise
2019-04-08T18:50:16 < Thorn> gotta maintain the reputation
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2019-04-08T18:53:29 < Steffanx> Is jpa- OK? All the tarduino talk lately...
2019-04-08T18:54:12 < Steffanx> Or are you teaching junior?
2019-04-08T18:54:33 < kakimir> after burnout he needed to learn code again
2019-04-08T18:55:14 <@englishman> does the finnish baby box include an arduino now
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2019-04-08T19:03:14 < jadew> jpa-, just like std::string, without the garbage part
2019-04-08T19:04:18 < jadew> are you sure it's replacing the data with garbage? that would imply that it's still looking for 0
2019-04-08T19:04:25 < jadew> and I can't imagine why it would do that
2019-04-08T19:04:33 < rajkosto> std::string handles zeroes in it just fine unless you use .c_str() and never passing the .length()
2019-04-08T19:05:15 < jadew> .c_str() still gets you the 0's
2019-04-08T19:05:24 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m2K9f6vjgU this would have been intresting if it wasnt narrated by that gross M2F creature
2019-04-08T19:05:33 < rajkosto> .c_str() is the same as .data() which is the pointer to first element 
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2019-04-08T19:06:04 < rajkosto> i meant obviously if you pass .c_str() to C-string-wanting functions without also passing .length() the reader will stop at first 0
2019-04-08T19:07:18 < dongs> also shills for that dragon innovations shit
2019-04-08T19:08:54 < rajkosto> its a verge video what do you expect
2019-04-08T19:09:36 <@englishman> millenial news. by millenials. for millenials.
2019-04-08T19:09:52 < dongs> yeah shits awful
2019-04-08T19:10:12 < kakimir> hard to be a millenial
2019-04-08T19:10:43 < kakimir> I didn't know I was millenial before but now I know to shame
2019-04-08T19:11:12 < jadew> what do you call a video like that? a reportage?
2019-04-08T19:11:41 < rajkosto> his 'product' was literally just a resistor on a headphone jack
2019-04-08T19:12:11 < jadew> true, but still, the problem exists
2019-04-08T19:12:50 < jadew> if your idea is a resistor on a headphone jack, which may help lots of customers, you're better off not telling anyone about it
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2019-04-08T19:13:31 <@englishman> if your shit is easily clonable, don't sell it for fifty fucking dollars
2019-04-08T19:13:38 <@englishman> it isn't that hard
2019-04-08T19:13:44 <@englishman> dumb fucking millenials
2019-04-08T19:14:14 < jadew> well, in the past you were free to charge what people were willing to pay
2019-04-08T19:14:20 < jadew> now you're forced to charge production cost
2019-04-08T19:14:45 < kakimir> unicorn technology
2019-04-08T19:15:02 < jadew> which may not be lucrative to you, living in a different country than china
2019-04-08T19:15:06 < jadew> with different expenses
2019-04-08T19:15:34 < qyx> jpa-: such betrayal
2019-04-08T19:15:36 <@englishman> only if you make retarded clonable junk
2019-04-08T19:15:48 <@englishman> like a resistor in a headphone jack
2019-04-08T19:15:56 < kakimir> 50dollards is pretty nice money for headphone jack
2019-04-08T19:16:11 < kakimir> what we would call good profit margin
2019-04-08T19:17:26 < Thorn> so I had to buy SMA @ aliexpress. RFsister is discontinued and lcsc doesn't have any replacements (or they didn't catalog it properly)
2019-04-08T19:18:24 < jadew> there was a movie about the guy who invented the discontinuous windshield wipers
2019-04-08T19:18:31 < jpa-> Steffanx: nah, just resolving nanopb issue report
2019-04-08T19:18:46 < jadew> his circuit was super simple, it just added a pause, but in a court of law, he won against the auto industry
2019-04-08T19:18:59 < jadew> this is impossible today
2019-04-08T19:19:03 < jadew> because you can't sue china
2019-04-08T19:19:28 < jpa-> jadew: yeah, it tracks the length but copies data with strcpy   https://github.com/esp8266/Arduino/blob/54240d2cc51e8b134fc6dc583f5a2b21f19755d8/cores/esp8266/WString.cpp#L203
2019-04-08T19:19:48 < jadew> so the issue is not weather that guy had a simple product or not, it's that your shit, regardless of what it is, can be copied by 20 people at once and you have no recourse
2019-04-08T19:20:01 < jadew> jpa-, funny
2019-04-08T19:20:24 < jadew> I take it memcpy was not fast enough
2019-04-08T19:20:47 < kakimir> actually working strategy: be first
2019-04-08T19:20:59 < qyx> impossible
2019-04-08T19:21:08 < kakimir> hard
2019-04-08T19:21:09 < qyx> everytrhing is invented already
2019-04-08T19:28:40 <@englishman> Yes
2019-04-08T19:30:49 < kakimir> trick is to call reinvented things inventions
2019-04-08T19:31:03 < kakimir> or just mere applications - inventions
2019-04-08T19:32:06 < jpa-> or just kickstarter it and run with the money
2019-04-08T19:34:10 < kakimir> apple is a good example
2019-04-08T19:34:23 < kakimir> act like you invented it all
2019-04-08T19:35:08 < kakimir> they launch new product - innovation
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2019-04-08T20:26:56 < Steffanx> Welcome
2019-04-08T20:30:53 < bitmask> o/
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2019-04-08T20:46:19 < rajkosto> jadew, was it you who had the soldering station in chinese ? how did you change to english
2019-04-08T20:46:28 < rajkosto> the KSGER stm32 oled station
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2019-04-08T20:48:58 < Thorn> item # something in the config
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2019-04-08T21:38:09 < s34n> mawk: It was a bad bootloader.
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2019-04-08T22:47:33 < jadew> rajkosto, it was and still am
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2019-04-08T22:47:43 < jadew> if you find out how, please let me know
2019-04-08T22:48:56 < karlp> surely you contacted the seller and got support right?
2019-04-08T22:49:36 < jadew> did a quick google search for the manual, but came up empty and moved on to other stuff
2019-04-08T22:50:35 < rajkosto> they can also be in russian
2019-04-08T22:51:05 < jadew> if it doesn't have romanian, I'll return it
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2019-04-08T22:55:50 < jadew> http://www.thedefpom.com/randomfiles/KSGER_T12_Soldering_Station.pdf
2019-04-08T22:56:03 < jadew> #10
2019-04-08T22:57:15 < jadew> it wasn't 10
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2019-04-08T23:03:07 < jadew> it was #15
2019-04-08T23:10:17 < catphish> ahoyhoy
2019-04-08T23:10:45 < Cracki> ave. catphished anyone lately?
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2019-04-08T23:14:50 < Cracki> had some fun with chinese battery clips for 18650. metal "springs" with almost no spring, so I broke the plastic with standard 65mm cells... oh well, pliers to the rescue
2019-04-08T23:15:36 < kakimir> how do you find it funny
2019-04-08T23:15:41 < kakimir> it's shit
2019-04-08T23:17:34 < kakimir> battery holders are in my list of never buy from china again
2019-04-08T23:18:03 < catphish> Cracki: 6 people
2019-04-08T23:18:32 < Cracki> were they worthy?
2019-04-08T23:20:04 < Cracki> kakimir, I can choose how to react and tonight I decided that I needed something to laugh about.
2019-04-08T23:20:19 < Cracki> alternative would have been to strangle someone
2019-04-08T23:21:13 < kakimir> https://www.mouser.fi/ProductDetail/Keystone-Electronics/1042P?
2019-04-08T23:21:24 < kakimir> https://www.mouser.fi/ProductDetail/Keystone-Electronics/1042P?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt13fpse6CWDTND2ZLh8pVfdYM5p6OtKurYl9svQbsGHQ%3D%3D
2019-04-08T23:21:46 < kakimir> beefy nylon and shit
2019-04-08T23:22:04 < Cracki> whores! my uni switched to moodle and that dumb thing forces download of PDFs
2019-04-08T23:22:16 < Cracki> yeh those look good
2019-04-08T23:22:29 < kakimir> there is dual model
2019-04-08T23:22:30 < kakimir> also
2019-04-08T23:22:38 < Cracki> I got quads
2019-04-08T23:23:00 < Cracki> had cells to spare and wanted a little juice for some robotics, in case I ever get the nerve to make it work
2019-04-08T23:24:28 < Cracki> whores! the pdf links end in ?forcedownload=1 but neither 0 nor removing it changes behavior
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2019-04-08T23:39:58 < kakimir> webdev pulled a sneaky one on ya
2019-04-08T23:55:58 < karlp> kakimir:these are china battery clips and they're great: http://www.blossom-ele.com/
2019-04-08T23:56:04 < karlp> englishman+karlp recommended,
2019-04-08T23:56:07 < karlp> think someone else too.
2019-04-08T23:57:18 < karlp> http://www.blossom-ele.com/sdp/1074412/4/pl-5180803/0-2439217/Li-ion_18650_Holders.html if you want directly comparable
2019-04-08T23:58:02 < kakimir> looking great
--- Day changed Tue Apr 09 2019
2019-04-09T00:01:41 < karlp> hrm, I thought we had that in zypsnips, but apparently not.
2019-04-09T00:06:32 < jadew> rajkosto, you have the KSGER, right?
2019-04-09T00:06:43 < rajkosto> no a friend does
2019-04-09T00:06:48 < jadew> have you ever experienced random readings on the display?
2019-04-09T00:06:50 < jadew> ah..
2019-04-09T00:07:11 < jadew> I shaked the iron a bit and it seems to be back to normal, but it was kinda weird
2019-04-09T00:07:19 < jadew> with the iron cold it was reading 500+ C
2019-04-09T00:12:59 < mawk> good s34n 
2019-04-09T00:13:02 < mawk> so it worked
2019-04-09T00:14:14 < mawk> do you guys here use the newlib from redhat ?
2019-04-09T00:14:16 < mawk> like extensively
2019-04-09T00:14:30 < mawk> so implying you provide the required syscalls like sbrk
2019-04-09T00:14:42 < mawk> so that you can use printf and all sorts of things
2019-04-09T00:15:33 < karlp> you don't even normally have to provide sbrk.
2019-04-09T00:15:40 < karlp> normally it's enough to jsut provide _write.
2019-04-09T00:16:05 < karlp> and yeah, most of probaly do, some portion of it atl east, it's part of the gcc-arm downloads
2019-04-09T00:17:25 < mawk> yeah for normal operation sbrk isn't required
2019-04-09T00:17:32 < mawk> but for malloc it is
2019-04-09T00:17:42 < mawk> you can just copy paste the example code from newlib docs and it works most of the time
2019-04-09T00:18:00 < mawk> but whenever you make allocations in IRQ handlers or SVC handlers it all breaks down
2019-04-09T00:18:06 < mawk> you need to ensure reentrency
2019-04-09T00:18:21 < mawk> with a reentrancy structure local to each task/thread/irq/whatever that holds the global state
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2019-04-09T00:19:04 < mawk> but it feels quite complicated
2019-04-09T00:19:27 < karlp> you can also jsut lockup abort if it gets called renentrently...
2019-04-09T00:19:32 < karlp> you're driving the bus remember.
2019-04-09T00:19:50 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-09T00:19:54 < karlp> I've personally never implemented _sbrk.
2019-04-09T00:20:09 < karlp> I've either used an rtos that took care of it, or I've not been using malloc in my own code.
2019-04-09T00:20:11 < mawk> I think it has a default implementation using the symbols defined by the linker script
2019-04-09T00:20:13 < mawk> I'm not sure
2019-04-09T00:20:35 < karlp> depends whether you use -nostdlibs or not.
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2019-04-09T00:20:46 < karlp> and -freestanding and so on.
2019-04-09T00:20:48 < mawk> I mean in the case where you use newlib
2019-04-09T00:20:57 < karlp> there's many levels of "using newlib"
2019-04-09T00:21:00 < mawk> it probably has a weak implementation of the _sbrk stubs and so on
2019-04-09T00:21:37 < karlp> that implementation will be null though. no way they can match your linker script variables.
2019-04-09T00:21:46 < karlp> I'm 99% sure newlib has a readme on this if you care.
2019-04-09T00:21:51 < mawk> yeah I read it
2019-04-09T00:21:52 < karlp> do you ahvea  more specific question
2019-04-09T00:22:04 < mawk> https://sourceware.org/newlib/
2019-04-09T00:22:21 < mawk> I was just curious if you implemented the stubs in your more elaborate programs
2019-04-09T00:22:41 < mawk> or just got around it by not using the libc malloc, not using like %f in printf, etc
2019-04-09T00:22:55 < rajkosto> my %f in printf works without malloc
2019-04-09T00:23:06 < mawk> but you have a decent printf implem
2019-04-09T00:23:09 < mawk> not the hideous printf from newlib
2019-04-09T00:23:14 < rajkosto> you just have to enable the float abi and float support in your gcc args
2019-04-09T00:23:19 < rajkosto> pretty sure its the hideous newlib printf
2019-04-09T00:23:22 < mawk> hmm
2019-04-09T00:23:24 < mawk> let me try that
2019-04-09T00:23:40 < mawk> but that depends on the core I guess
2019-04-09T00:24:08 < mawk> but still, even if you don't pass all relevant flags about hardfloat or not, you have access to at least soft float, and you can do normal floating point ops
2019-04-09T00:24:12 < mawk> it's just that %f doesn't work
2019-04-09T00:25:01 < karlp> read the readme again...
2019-04-09T00:25:11 < karlp> like, for realz
2019-04-09T00:25:20 < karlp> %f in printf and scanf is explicitly mentioned
2019-04-09T00:25:31 < mawk> the supposed _sbrk implem I was talking about uses the _end symbol from the gnu linker
2019-04-09T00:25:35 < mawk> which is supposedly standard
2019-04-09T00:26:49 < karlp> (it's not)
2019-04-09T00:27:06 < mawk> I'm just quoting the readme
2019-04-09T00:27:11 < mawk> «it exploits the symbol _end automatically defined by the GNU linker.»
2019-04-09T00:27:33 < karlp> but you don't know if _end is usefully at the end of ram, or end of something else
2019-04-09T00:27:38 < karlp> it's just the last thing in theh linker script.
2019-04-09T00:28:22 < karlp> ./share/doc/gcc-arm-none-eabi/readme.txt line 241 is how to use %f...
2019-04-09T00:28:35 < mawk> what do you want me to see about %f in the readme ? it's very similar to the regular man
2019-04-09T00:28:36 < mawk> ah
2019-04-09T00:28:58 < mawk> I was relying on their websites
2019-04-09T00:29:09 < mawk> the design back from 1990 should have alerted me
2019-04-09T00:29:13 < mawk> thanks
2019-04-09T00:29:14 < karlp> (I've been assuming this whole time you actualyl meant newlib-nano, not newlib, as regular newlib is way too big for most stm342 projects)
2019-04-09T00:29:26 < karlp> in the old days, the readme was linked from the launchpad download site directly,
2019-04-09T00:29:33 < karlp> now you have to download the tarball/zip first.
2019-04-09T00:33:11 < mawk> I should've known about nucleo-32 earlier
2019-04-09T00:33:16 < mawk> I would never had bought this shitty blue pill thing
2019-04-09T00:33:42 < mawk> I have no courage to change the usb resistor and resolder the micro-usb on every board I have
2019-04-09T00:33:56 < rajkosto> my blue pill works fine tho
2019-04-09T00:34:02 < mawk> you're lucky
2019-04-09T00:34:03 < rajkosto> do they just chuck random valued resistors to DP ?
2019-04-09T00:34:08 < mawk> they use 10k
2019-04-09T00:34:11 < mawk> while 1.5k is required
2019-04-09T00:34:17 < mawk> so it may work on your computer and not on others
2019-04-09T00:34:22 < rajkosto> its 1.5K to 3v3 but i think they use random values to 5v ?
2019-04-09T00:34:40 < mawk> I've consistently seen 10k, but it's even worse if random
2019-04-09T00:35:24 < rajkosto> my R10 is 10k
2019-04-09T00:35:27 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-09T00:35:33 < Cracki> ah, you're discussing the hardware bug in those bluepills? that's why everyone says to get the blackpill
2019-04-09T00:35:36 < mawk> I removed it and replaced with a 1.5k smd resistor I had on some board
2019-04-09T00:35:44 < mawk> tricky operation with shaky hands
2019-04-09T00:35:51 < rajkosto> the blackpill sucks harder tho
2019-04-09T00:35:53 < rajkosto> less pins are exposed
2019-04-09T00:36:04 < Cracki> oh
2019-04-09T00:36:06 < rajkosto> and space is wasted on the top
2019-04-09T00:36:14 < rajkosto> as its a single sided board
2019-04-09T00:36:19 < rajkosto> load*
2019-04-09T00:36:22 < mawk> they used the the rtc for the led pin pin on the bluepill
2019-04-09T00:36:30 < mawk> they had tons of pins to choose from and they chose that one
2019-04-09T00:36:39 < Cracki> any downsides to the maple mini clones?
2019-04-09T00:36:51 < Cracki> (I use them, haven't noticed anything too bad yet)
2019-04-09T00:37:55 < mawk> it's 10K to 3V3 rajkosto 
2019-04-09T00:38:00 < mawk> not to 5V
2019-04-09T00:38:02 < mawk> they got that right at least
2019-04-09T00:39:10 < karlp> mawk: haha. told you not to buy those garbage pills :)
2019-04-09T00:40:05 < mawk> I bought them a long time ago
2019-04-09T00:40:11 < mawk> before your first warning
2019-04-09T00:40:16 < mawk> but I only recently tried usb on them
2019-04-09T00:40:38 < mawk> so I bought nucleo-32 fro mrs
2019-04-09T00:55:38 -!- Dave_Elec [~Dave@197.156.86.233] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-09T01:09:58 < Cracki> any gripes about nucleo 32?
2019-04-09T01:14:10 < s34n> mawk: did you mention you don't use the Arduino IDE?
2019-04-09T01:17:48 < mawk> I didn't mention it s34n 
2019-04-09T01:17:50 < mawk> but it's correct
2019-04-09T01:17:57 < mawk> I don't use the arduino ide or stm32duino*
2019-04-09T01:18:00 < mawk> I use the ST hal libs
2019-04-09T01:19:22 < s34n> mawk: k. how do you move your executable onto the pill?
2019-04-09T01:20:43 < mawk> with a stlink
2019-04-09T01:22:15 < mawk> you could use the uart bootloader from st but it's not practical
2019-04-09T01:22:19 < mawk> you can't debug 
2019-04-09T01:23:07 < s34n> mawk: which bootloader do you use?
2019-04-09T01:23:54 < mawk> no bootloader
2019-04-09T01:24:28 < mawk> just a quick stub that loads .data from flash to ram 
2019-04-09T01:25:02 < mawk> then call the global constructors
2019-04-09T01:25:16 < mawk> initialize the clocks, zero out .bss
2019-04-09T01:26:42 < jadew> fucking assholes... I was about to buy a washing machine and the shop entered in a "stock busting" mode, so items are allegedly on sale
2019-04-09T01:26:58 < jadew> the one I wanted to buy saw a price increase by more than 10%
2019-04-09T01:27:13 < jadew> and it's "on sale"
2019-04-09T01:27:17 < mawk> lol
2019-04-09T01:27:27 < rajkosto> thats what they do
2019-04-09T01:27:35 < zyp> sounds like illegal marketing
2019-04-09T01:27:40 < rajkosto> sometimes they raise the price 2 days before a sale
2019-04-09T01:27:44 < mawk> yeah totally illegal
2019-04-09T01:27:47 < zyp> in norway they'd get slapped for that
2019-04-09T01:27:53 < rajkosto> so you think the sale was a bigger discount than it was before
2019-04-09T01:27:57 < mawk> it's explicitely written in law that you can't increase price right before sales
2019-04-09T01:28:05 < mawk> it has to be an averaged price on a good period of time
2019-04-09T01:28:12 < jadew> zyp, they got slapped in here too, but now they keep them on sale all the time
2019-04-09T01:28:14 < mawk> also sales are restricted on certain period of the year
2019-04-09T01:28:15 < zyp> mawk, depends what country's laws you're looking at though
2019-04-09T01:28:19 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-09T01:28:20 < jadew> so they just change the percentage
2019-04-09T01:28:21 < mawk> but I assume europe
2019-04-09T01:28:26 < mawk> which is pretty standardized
2019-04-09T01:28:32 < zyp> jadew, what model are you looking at?
2019-04-09T01:28:44 < jadew> a daweoo one
2019-04-09T01:28:53 < jadew> I'm not sure about it anymore
2019-04-09T01:29:05 < zyp> don't think that's a common brand here
2019-04-09T01:29:05 < rajkosto> i need a new boiler
2019-04-09T01:29:06 < jadew> found a couple of reviews saying the interface is slow
2019-04-09T01:29:17 < jadew> it's for my grandmother and she can't deal with that
2019-04-09T01:29:21 < zyp> but which model and how much was it?
2019-04-09T01:29:22 < zyp> ah
2019-04-09T01:29:35 < rajkosto> "interface"
2019-04-09T01:29:38 < rajkosto> what more does it need than 2 dials
2019-04-09T01:29:45 < jadew> rajkosto, it only had one
2019-04-09T01:29:52 < jadew> (has to be as simple as possilbe)
2019-04-09T01:29:55 < zyp> isn't one common?
2019-04-09T01:30:01 < rajkosto> one for temperature and one for wash type
2019-04-09T01:30:12 < jadew> but apparently it didn't start unless you gave it a bit of time
2019-04-09T01:30:23 < zyp> mine only has a dial for type, temperature is just a button
2019-04-09T01:30:40 < zyp> as does most others I've looked at
2019-04-09T01:30:48 < jadew> this one commenter said he thinks the IC is slow, so he first plugs it in, turns it on, sets the program then proceeds to load it and only after that it starts the program
2019-04-09T01:31:02 < zyp> well, duh
2019-04-09T01:31:06 < jadew> otherwise, if you load it, make the settings and try to start it, it won't start
2019-04-09T01:31:09 < zyp> obviously it's not starting with the door open
2019-04-09T01:31:20 < zyp> so anyway, what model?
2019-04-09T01:31:26 < jadew> let me check
2019-04-09T01:31:33 < zyp> and how much was it?
2019-04-09T01:31:33 < rajkosto> "make the settings" already souinds too complicated 
2019-04-09T01:31:37 < jadew> Daewoo DWD-FV2021
2019-04-09T01:31:42 < jadew> rajkosto, I agree
2019-04-09T01:32:14 < rajkosto> they shouldnt act like they have an IC in them at all, you should be able to leave the dials where they are and just push start every time
2019-04-09T01:32:54 < jadew> her current one refuses to start
2019-04-09T01:33:00 < jadew> there's no error
2019-04-09T01:33:02 < zyp> rajkosto, yeah, sure, if you live in 1980
2019-04-09T01:33:05 < rajkosto> (basically they should be a direct replacement for the mechanical program based ones)
2019-04-09T01:33:20 < rajkosto> zyp, grandma does
2019-04-09T01:33:28 < mawk> why s34n ?
2019-04-09T01:35:38 < jadew> looking at this one now, but I'm not sure about that dial
2019-04-09T01:35:40 < jadew> Samsung Add-Wash WW70K44305W/LE
2019-04-09T01:36:01 < jadew> she can't see very well and that thing doesn't have any marks on it
2019-04-09T01:36:27 < zyp> it doesn't have leds that light up?
2019-04-09T01:36:46 < jadew> no, it has a display
2019-04-09T01:37:18 < rajkosto> its STATEFUL ?
2019-04-09T01:38:00 < jadew> rajkosto, thing about that is that we had several incidents when my kid had some fun with the dial and left it like that
2019-04-09T01:38:24 < zyp> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYlrsroSa_Q <- looks like leds to me
2019-04-09T01:38:30 < zyp> like most other modern machines
2019-04-09T01:40:01 < jadew> whirlpool is international?
2019-04-09T01:40:04 < zyp> hey, I like that little door in the door
2019-04-09T01:40:10 < zyp> yeah
2019-04-09T01:40:14 < jadew> yeah, that's pretty cool
2019-04-09T01:40:55 < zyp> I've got an LG thing, combined washer and dryer
2019-04-09T01:41:18 < zyp> I'd recommend that if you were buying for yourself, but I'm not gonna talk your grandmother into start using a dryer :p
2019-04-09T01:42:05 < jadew> heh, she might like it :)
2019-04-09T01:42:21 < zyp> well, in that case, absolutely get a combined one
2019-04-09T01:42:27 < jadew> is it that great?
2019-04-09T01:42:33 < zyp> yes
2019-04-09T01:43:04 < zyp> throw in clothes, start the machine, forget about it
2019-04-09T01:43:20 < zyp> come back a couple of days later, find dry clothes in the machine
2019-04-09T01:43:36 < rajkosto> couple of days
2019-04-09T01:43:39 < jadew> that solves the problem with forgotten clothes that start to smell
2019-04-09T01:43:50 < zyp> exactly
2019-04-09T01:44:16 < jadew> that actually sounds good for me
2019-04-09T01:44:23 < jadew> I always forget to take them out
2019-04-09T01:44:31 < zyp> rajkosto, yeah, sometimes we throw bedsheets and stuff into it before leaving for a weeked trip or something
2019-04-09T01:44:59 < kakimir> pump is weak
2019-04-09T01:45:46 < zyp> wife refuses to run her clothes in the dryer though, so she still manages to forget them sometimes :p
2019-04-09T01:46:10 < zyp> but anything else, my clothes, bedsheets, towels, etc gets run with the combined program
2019-04-09T01:46:30 < kakimir> samsung laundry machines explode
2019-04-09T01:47:00 < jadew> how long does the drying program take?
2019-04-09T01:47:23 < zyp> depends how much you load in
2019-04-09T01:47:49 < zyp> total wash and dry is usually like 3-4 hours I believe, about half of the time for each
2019-04-09T01:48:21 < kakimir> does it play fur elise when it's done?
2019-04-09T01:48:40 < zyp> we only use one set of bedsheets now, just throw them in the laundry machine, run it and put it right back on the bed afterwards
2019-04-09T01:49:05 < zyp> not elise, but some other really recognizable shit
2019-04-09T01:49:24 < kakimir> asians have a thing for those songs
2019-04-09T01:49:31 < kakimir> played in monotone
2019-04-09T01:49:40 < jadew> because every asian kid can play piano
2019-04-09T01:49:52 < jadew> they start at 2
2019-04-09T01:49:57 < zyp> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y7rj98trow <- same tune as this thing
2019-04-09T01:50:15 < jadew> same!
2019-04-09T01:50:23 < jadew> not sure what brand ours is
2019-04-09T01:50:26 < jadew> give me a moment
2019-04-09T01:50:38 < zyp> I think all LGs have this tume
2019-04-09T01:50:53 < zyp> have heard the same at several of my friends' :)
2019-04-09T01:51:10 < jadew> it's LG
2019-04-09T01:51:11 < jadew> :)
2019-04-09T01:51:59 < zyp> haha, cool
2019-04-09T01:52:22 < zyp> I think maybe my rice cooker has fur elise
2019-04-09T01:52:23 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-04-09T01:52:49 < Cracki> rice cooker and drier
2019-04-09T01:53:45 < zyp> yeah?
2019-04-09T01:55:21 < Cracki> just wondering if anyone needs a rice cooker+drier
2019-04-09T01:55:31 < zyp> oh, rice drier? dunno
2019-04-09T01:55:47 < jadew> isn't rice growing in swamps?
2019-04-09T01:56:04 < zyp> yeah, but I'm not growing it, I'm cooking and eating it
2019-04-09T01:56:10 < Cracki> heck, drying rice is a thing https://www.finecooking.com/article/salvaging-not-so-perfect-rice
2019-04-09T01:56:16 < kakimir> hmm use laundry machine to cook rice
2019-04-09T01:56:18 < jadew> yeah, but those people could use a dryer
2019-04-09T01:56:42 < kakimir> shovel it in and put 95centigrade cotton program on
2019-04-09T01:56:48 < zyp> Cracki, I sometimes throw it in the pan to make fried rice
2019-04-09T01:57:08 < Cracki> someone needs to invent an egg unscrambler
2019-04-09T01:57:15 < kakimir> I need a kettle
2019-04-09T01:57:29 < zyp> I have an egg boiler also, since we're talking about appliances :p
2019-04-09T01:57:47 < zyp> and this fancy water boiler thing that always keeps hot water ready
2019-04-09T01:57:47 < Cracki> I wonder if it's chemically possible to reverse the denaturing of protein
2019-04-09T01:58:39 < zyp> https://www.amazon.com/Zojirushi-CD-LFC30-Panorama-Window-Boiler/dp/B0166OD6J0 <- this sort of thing, except for european power
2019-04-09T01:59:20 < kakimir> zyp: modern home huh?
2019-04-09T01:59:28 < kakimir> do you have bread machine?
2019-04-09T01:59:54 < zyp> no, but I got Steffanx to buy me a philips airfryer a couple of years ago :p
2019-04-09T02:00:05 < BrainDamage> does that make hot water on the fly or does it keep it warm?
2019-04-09T02:00:12 < zyp> keeps it warm
2019-04-09T02:00:24 < kakimir> if you do some math it says it keeps it warm
2019-04-09T02:01:18 < BrainDamage> how's the air frier? I've always been curious to get one
2019-04-09T02:01:27 < BrainDamage> either that, or an halogen oven
2019-04-09T02:01:30 < zyp> every time I buy some non-essential appliance my wife asks me what the point is, and then she ends up using it all the time
2019-04-09T02:01:31 < kakimir> taking shower is 30kw I did math once
2019-04-09T02:01:54 < kakimir> from 5C to 34C or so
2019-04-09T02:02:07 < BrainDamage> yeah, I have an inline gas boiler
2019-04-09T02:02:13 < BrainDamage> it's 50kW
2019-04-09T02:02:21 < kakimir> fits the math
2019-04-09T02:02:32 < BrainDamage> however, the water flux of that thing is way way less than a shower
2019-04-09T02:02:40 < zyp> airfryer is awesome for preparing frozen stuff
2019-04-09T02:04:01 < Cracki> lol they can unboil eggs https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/01/28/how-and-why-chemists-figured-out-how-to-unboil-an-egg/
2019-04-09T02:04:31 < jadew> is Indesit an international brand?
2019-04-09T02:04:58 < zyp> never heard of, but apparently sold in norway
2019-04-09T02:05:10 < jadew> btw zyp, Daewoo used to make cars... we had lots of them here
2019-04-09T02:05:28 < BrainDamage> indesit is a well known brand in italy
2019-04-09T02:05:33 < zyp> at a glance it looks like cheap noname stuff
2019-04-09T02:05:52 < zyp> and yeah, I'm aware Daewoo was a car brand
2019-04-09T02:05:55 < jadew> BrainDamage, good to know, thanks
2019-04-09T02:07:19 < jadew> found a perfect one, but the capacity is too low https://www.emag.ro/masina-de-spalat-rufe-indesit-5-kg-1000-rpm-clasa-a-alb-ewsd-51051-w-eu/pd/DTJ5RYBBM/
2019-04-09T02:07:25 < jadew> turns out more knobs is better
2019-04-09T02:08:49 < zyp> norwegian store has an identical looking 7kg model
2019-04-09T02:08:57 < zyp> https://www.power.no/hvitevarer/vaskemaskin/vaskemaskin/indesit-iwd71452-vaskemaskin/p-940705/
2019-04-09T02:09:43 < jadew> that's promising, and it has one more +
2019-04-09T02:10:13 < zyp> it's the third cheapest machine the store carries :p
2019-04-09T02:10:21 < jadew> heh
2019-04-09T02:10:32 < jadew> the reviews are very good
2019-04-09T02:11:07 < jadew> they're not many tho, but what sold me was that someone mentioned it has many programs with small washing times
2019-04-09T02:11:14 < jadew> which is something my grandmother loves
2019-04-09T02:12:12 < zyp> I wouldn't buy a laundry machine without a direct drive motor
2019-04-09T02:12:20 <@englishman> karlp: I don't remember ever seeing those
2019-04-09T02:12:22 < jadew> it's not direct drive?
2019-04-09T02:12:33 < zyp> don't want to have to deal with replacing the belt a few years down the road
2019-04-09T02:12:45 < BrainDamage> it's also way noisier
2019-04-09T02:12:48 < zyp> at that price? wouldn't count on it
2019-04-09T02:12:59 < jadew> BrainDamage, which one is noisier?
2019-04-09T02:13:04 < jadew> the direct drive I assume?
2019-04-09T02:13:06 < BrainDamage> one with a belt
2019-04-09T02:13:13 < kakimir> definitelly one with belt
2019-04-09T02:13:15 < jadew> really? I thought it would be the other way around
2019-04-09T02:13:16 < BrainDamage> nope, the belt elasticity creates oscillations
2019-04-09T02:13:26 <@englishman> jadew: so many dacias here
2019-04-09T02:13:31 < kakimir> also the motor spins like crazy
2019-04-09T02:13:34 < jadew> hmm... interesting
2019-04-09T02:13:40 < zyp> direct drive usually implies a modern brushless motor
2019-04-09T02:13:42 < jadew> englishman, don't believe you
2019-04-09T02:13:48 < kakimir> pulley of the motor is like 5cm diameter
2019-04-09T02:14:04 < kakimir> pulley of the drum is like 70% diameter of the drum
2019-04-09T02:14:06 < jadew> that's good to know
2019-04-09T02:14:50 < kakimir> I thinked with my wallet and got used miele beltdrive machine
2019-04-09T02:14:55 < BrainDamage> kinda funny, that moden is export only
2019-04-09T02:14:55 < kakimir> for like 150
2019-04-09T02:15:04 < BrainDamage> model*
2019-04-09T02:15:21 < kakimir> it has balancing issues but I don't mind
2019-04-09T02:16:11 < zyp> I paid 7k NOK for mine
2019-04-09T02:16:22 < kakimir> what is it
2019-04-09T02:16:24 < kakimir> like 1000eur?
2019-04-09T02:16:43 < zyp> remove a zero, roughly
2019-04-09T02:16:53 < zyp> 1 EUR is around 10 NOK
2019-04-09T02:16:54 <@englishman> rode in a Dacia with 996000km
2019-04-09T02:17:16 < kakimir> englishman: diesel power
2019-04-09T02:17:22 <@englishman> yes
2019-04-09T02:17:32 < zyp> originally I paid 8k for it, but next week it was on a sale for 7k, so I emailed the store and asked for 1k back
2019-04-09T02:17:58 < kakimir> hmm
2019-04-09T02:18:11 < kakimir> they had return policy so you said I keep this but you pay me?
2019-04-09T02:18:49 < kakimir> englishman: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hjk3qRurDUaO1SmRt1-9IezSGQV6Tr4B/view?usp=sharing somebody didn't replace the bolts I assume
2019-04-09T02:19:00 < jadew> zyp, nice, I'll try that next
2019-04-09T02:19:06 < zyp> all online stores are required by law to let you return (unused) stuff within 14 days
2019-04-09T02:19:08 < jadew> happened to me when I bought the TV
2019-04-09T02:19:40 < zyp> happened to me when I bought the kitchen ventilator a few months ago too
2019-04-09T02:19:43 < kakimir> imagine the feeling when you buy the most expensive model S tesla
2019-04-09T02:19:52 < zyp> week after ikea had 20% off on all appliances
2019-04-09T02:19:55 <@englishman> nice kakimir
2019-04-09T02:20:03 <@englishman> that is just the rocker shaft?
2019-04-09T02:20:16 < zyp> so I asked for and got the 20% back
2019-04-09T02:20:29 < kakimir> and 2 days later muskie boi pulls a sneaky one on you and your car is value is -30%
2019-04-09T02:20:44 <@englishman> like every mac ever
2019-04-09T02:20:45 < zyp> kakimir, haha
2019-04-09T02:21:03 < jadew> englishman, how come you rode in a Dacia?
2019-04-09T02:21:13 <@englishman> normal depreciation on every new car. but FASTER
2019-04-09T02:21:15 < jadew> also... the millage must have been fake
2019-04-09T02:21:20 < jadew> no dacia can last that long
2019-04-09T02:21:21 <@englishman> jadew: because there are so many
2019-04-09T02:21:33 < kakimir> englishman: the clamps are fucked
2019-04-09T02:21:41 < jadew> englishman, which model?
2019-04-09T02:21:47 < kakimir> it has hammered those for like >600km
2019-04-09T02:21:56 < zyp> englishman, doesn't every car have instant depreciation the moment it leaves the store lot? :p
2019-04-09T02:21:58 <@englishman> rode in a 1990 Peugeot 309 that had been a taxi its entire life
2019-04-09T02:23:15 < kakimir> also it ate the boltheads probs those are in oil pan now
2019-04-09T02:25:37 < kakimir> boltheads are not a problem for perpetual engine
2019-04-09T02:25:39 <@englishman> jadew: no idea all the shit had fallen off the back
2019-04-09T02:25:48 < jadew> heh
2019-04-09T02:26:12 < kakimir> jadew: dacia is pretty popular in finland
2019-04-09T02:26:28 < jadew> friend of mine had a really old dacia we used when going out, when we were young
2019-04-09T02:26:35 < kakimir> and known as realiable and inexpensive
2019-04-09T02:26:35 < jadew> one night one of the wheels fell off
2019-04-09T02:26:39 < jadew> that was the end of it
2019-04-09T02:27:42 < jadew> kakimir, they're appreciated here too
2019-04-09T02:27:52 < kakimir> it's like budget suv/offroad that is inexpensive to buy and operate
2019-04-09T02:29:05 <@englishman> it's so dumb that small cheap yuroboxen aren't even offered here
2019-04-09T02:29:20 <@englishman> with diesel
2019-04-09T02:29:49 < kakimir> it's protectionism
2019-04-09T02:29:55 < jadew> what's that?
2019-04-09T02:30:49 <@englishman> it can't be that, canada doesn't make cars, except for foreign companies
2019-04-09T02:31:01 < jadew> what's yuroboxen?
2019-04-09T02:31:08 <@englishman> volvo shut down their factory here years ago
2019-04-09T02:31:23 < kakimir> euroboxes with swedish en
2019-04-09T02:31:37 <@englishman> dacia, seat, peugeot, cheap small diesel cars
2019-04-09T02:31:42 < jadew> got it
2019-04-09T02:32:49 < kakimir> maybe it because everyone just needs to have F150 minimum
2019-04-09T02:33:10 < jadew> englishman, got suzuki?
2019-04-09T02:33:36 <@englishman> they stopped selling cars here about 10y ago
2019-04-09T02:33:44 < jadew> oh
2019-04-09T02:34:01 < jadew> they make some cheap mini-SUVs
2019-04-09T02:34:18 <@englishman> yeah they always had quirky stuff
2019-04-09T02:34:24 <@englishman> never sold diesels tho
2019-04-09T02:36:14 <@englishman> oh I heard a good excuse this evening
2019-04-09T02:36:23 <@englishman> the king is in town
2019-04-09T02:36:28 <@englishman> and as a result
2019-04-09T02:36:44 <@englishman> the internet is so slow the credit card machine doesn't work
2019-04-09T02:39:58 < jadew> who said that?
2019-04-09T02:40:06 < kakimir> king?
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2019-04-09T02:41:18 < kakimir> turdeau?
2019-04-09T02:41:43 < kakimir> there went my canadian citizenship
2019-04-09T02:44:19 <@englishman> no ive been in morocco for two weeks
2019-04-09T02:44:45 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-09T02:46:28 < jadew> night
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2019-04-09T03:17:32 < karlp> englishman:eh might have been aandrew? thought someone else had bought some and been very happy
2019-04-09T03:18:16 <@englishman> probably they look good
2019-04-09T03:18:45 <@englishman> lold at "duplicated goods"
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2019-04-09T06:27:26 < R2COM> sup guys
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2019-04-09T07:01:49 < dongs> not much ,proing
2019-04-09T07:06:10 < dongs> hmm i forgot how i put paste mask layer stuff on throhgh-hole for shit like usb-c
2019-04-09T07:06:15 < dongs> i thought thre was automatic thing
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2019-04-09T08:41:06 < con3> When Exitting stop mode, the only thing that needs to be redone is the clock configuration? Everything else should still be the same as prior to sleeping?
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2019-04-09T10:57:53 < mitrax> hey, is jlcpcb reliable in your experience or is it crap?
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2019-04-09T11:00:26 < R2COM> if you want cheap AND reliable AND chinese - go with Allpcb
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2019-04-09T11:45:26 < jly> i liked jlcpcb
2019-04-09T11:45:29 < jly> that's my shed.
2019-04-09T11:45:33 < jly> *like
2019-04-09T11:47:13 < jly> who is the quickest 4layer
2019-04-09T11:53:23 <@englishman> reliable cheap garbo $1 pcb
2019-04-09T11:53:31 < con3> no probs with jlc here
2019-04-09T11:54:31 < jly> ty englishman 
2019-04-09T12:04:27 < ub|k-> has anyone used the CS43L22 DAC in the past?
2019-04-09T12:04:46 < ub|k-> i'm trying to figure out why I am only getting a single channel from it
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2019-04-09T12:07:29 < jly> ah the pretty 
2019-04-09T12:08:11 < dongs> ub|k: the shit on F4 disco?
2019-04-09T12:08:12 < dongs> worked for me
2019-04-09T12:08:17 < ub|k> dongs: yes, that
2019-04-09T12:08:36 < dongs> i used it in a radio project
2019-04-09T12:08:42 < dongs> DAB-type thing
2019-04-09T12:08:47 < ub|k> dongs: yeah, the test programs run fine on it
2019-04-09T12:08:51 < dongs> stm32 was doing the decoding and playback
2019-04-09T12:08:51 < ub|k> it's definitely my config
2019-04-09T12:09:02 < ub|k> but i've been unable to find out what's wrong so far
2019-04-09T12:09:03 < dongs> i just copied whatever hte fuck came in F4-disco source code
2019-04-09T12:09:09 < ub|k> maybe i'll just do a register dump
2019-04-09T12:09:11 < dongs> are you able to reliable read/write all the registers?
2019-04-09T12:09:16 < ub|k> dongs: yeah, i am
2019-04-09T12:11:27 < dongs> i stole my shit from stm32f4_discovery_audio_codec.c
2019-04-09T12:11:34 < ub|k> dongs: yeah
2019-04-09T12:11:46 < ub|k> i am not using DMA though
2019-04-09T12:11:54 < ub|k> at least not yet
2019-04-09T12:12:40 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/iA1QnF68.html looks liek someone fucked with the code after me and left no comments
2019-04-09T12:12:50 < dongs> but this should be a working setup for 48k/stereo/16bit
2019-04-09T12:16:48 < dongs> zyp: wires paid?
2019-04-09T12:17:48 < zyp> ya, I paid those as soon as I got the invoice
2019-04-09T12:17:50 < dongs> oh
2019-04-09T12:19:11 < dongs> oh, she is on it
2019-04-09T12:20:22 < dongs> i wasnt aware. ok thanks, back to under my rock
2019-04-09T12:21:02 < jly> the configurations
2019-04-09T12:25:07 < ub|k> dongs: thanks!
2019-04-09T12:25:28 < ub|k> dongs: also, pretty interesting thing, doing DAB with an STM32
2019-04-09T12:25:51 < dongs> it wasn't *exactly* dab, it was japtv digital radio thing but yeah similar
2019-04-09T12:26:03 < dongs> very low bitrate he-aac stream
2019-04-09T12:27:15 < qyx> reminds me that thing
2019-04-09T12:27:17 < qyx> you know
2019-04-09T12:27:32 < qyx> DRM
2019-04-09T12:27:37 < jly> oh
2019-04-09T12:27:40 < dongs> the retarded french radio
2019-04-09T12:27:41 < qyx> digital radio mondiale or what
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2019-04-09T12:28:42 < qyx> did you sdr it?
2019-04-09T12:28:46 < dongs> no
2019-04-09T12:29:10 < dongs> isdb-t 1seg demod -> spi into stm32 with the mpeg2ts at low bitrate
2019-04-09T12:29:19 < dongs> extract juts the audio pid and decode
2019-04-09T12:30:06 < qyx> oh a dedicated isdb receiver?
2019-04-09T12:30:13 < dongs> 400kbit overall datarate for that channel, and iirc video took up like 300 leaving the rest for data broadcast and audio
2019-04-09T12:31:06 < dongs> 48 to 64kbit aac
2019-04-09T12:31:15 < dongs> qyx, eyah just like a dvb-t demod or wahtever.
2019-04-09T12:31:19 < dongs> standalone chip
2019-04-09T12:38:28 < ub|k> is anyone doing drm?
2019-04-09T12:38:41 < dongs> it sounds like it shouldn't be hard to sdr
2019-04-09T12:38:51 < dongs> the probpem would be finding an actual drm broadcast in live
2019-04-09T12:40:27 < ub|k> there is DRM in switzerland
2019-04-09T12:40:46 < ub|k> but yeah, no one listens to it even though at some point FM is supposed to go away
2019-04-09T12:41:29 < qyx> isn't there dab?
2019-04-09T12:41:51 < ub|k> 2024, they say
2019-04-09T12:41:51 < dongs> https://www.silabs.com/products/audio-and-radio/si468x-digital-radios
2019-04-09T12:41:51 < dongs> there you go
2019-04-09T12:41:51 < dongs> one chip thing
2019-04-09T12:42:12 < dongs> you can even buy that shit at mouser
2019-04-09T12:43:02 < ub|k> does it do hellschreiber, though?
2019-04-09T12:43:55 < dongs> oh gay
2019-04-09T12:44:03 < dongs> it doesnt output 'raw' data pre-decode
2019-04-09T12:44:06 < BrainDamage> does anyone that matters care about hellschreiber?
2019-04-09T12:44:17 < ub|k> ehm... it was a joke.
2019-04-09T12:44:21 < ub|k> i like it. it's retro
2019-04-09T12:45:05 < Mangy_Dog> Need a tidbit of help maybe, Im using the JQ8400 audio module in my tricorder project, its serial controlled but is set to 9600 speed. The basic datasheet doesnt say anything, but does anyone know of a command to raise the datarate?
2019-04-09T12:45:38 < dongs> im gonna guess no
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2019-04-09T13:06:40 < qyx> any idea how to do low bitrate self-clocking signal reception on stm32?
2019-04-09T13:06:49 < qyx> besides timers
2019-04-09T13:07:10 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2019-04-09T13:07:49 < qyx> (AC-coupled comms)
2019-04-09T13:08:20 < qyx> maybe even internal comparators could be used
2019-04-09T13:17:25 < Thorn> is the capacitor famine over? I found a reel of 0603 0.1µF for $7.2 @ lcsc
2019-04-09T13:18:34 < rajkosto> the capacitor famine ?
2019-04-09T13:18:48 -!- Dave_Elec [~Dave@197.156.103.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-04-09T13:18:48 < Thorn> not "a reel" but $7.2/reel (and it's X7R)
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2019-04-09T13:25:38 < Thorn> rajkosto: a few months ago the cheapest reel they had was like $80 iirc (if they had them in stock at all)
2019-04-09T13:26:05 < rajkosto> what about 0402 0.1uF
2019-04-09T13:38:16 < Thorn> https://lcsc.com/video.html#/video
2019-04-09T13:52:20 < karlp> fuck whichever one of you cunts linked that machinethinking video.
2019-04-09T13:52:39 < karlp> it's all nice and pleasant, then ahlf way in it's all blurry and just has an overlay, "visit website to view footage"
2019-04-09T13:52:44 < karlp> fuck that cunt right off.
2019-04-09T13:53:09 < karlp> "too expensive to license" fuck off.
2019-04-09T13:53:48 < jadew`> what?
2019-04-09T13:58:52 < zyp> bad mood today?
2019-04-09T14:02:34 < jadew`> https://www.msn.com/en-xl/africa/top-stories/ailing-nurse-alleges-to-having-swapped-5000-babies-within-12-years-for-fun/ar-BBVFPWe
2019-04-09T14:14:00 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2019-04-09T14:21:41 < Mangy_Dog> that is amazingly fucked up
2019-04-09T14:28:21 < Cracki> zambia. thank god! I almost thought that had happened in a western country
2019-04-09T14:30:01 < jpa-> that's why you should take a permanent marker with you when you go giving birth
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2019-04-09T14:37:47 < Thorn> >Prosperity Dielectrics
2019-04-09T14:49:54 < jadew`> lol jpa- 
2019-04-09T14:56:57 < aandrew> karlp: what?
2019-04-09T14:57:00 < aandrew> I watched the entire thing without issue
2019-04-09T14:57:21 < aandrew> the part you're talking about is where he linked to the source video that he was summariszing
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2019-04-09T15:08:45 < dongs> http://www.montage-tech.com/Jintide_CPU/index.html#maodian the fuck is this shit?
2019-04-09T15:10:23 < dongs> is this how china spies on you?
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2019-04-09T15:25:31 < aandrew> how the fuck did you even come across that
2019-04-09T15:25:32 < aandrew> interesting
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2019-04-09T15:50:06 < jadew`> https://russiansemiresearch.com/en/service/
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2019-04-09T15:50:49 < jadew`> stm32f1 costs 2k
2019-04-09T16:08:58 < kakimir> hey dudes
2019-04-09T16:09:23 < kakimir> these distributors all show prices vat free right?
2019-04-09T16:09:39 < jadew`> usually, yeah
2019-04-09T16:09:46 < jadew`> they slap the vat in when you checkout
2019-04-09T16:17:08 < kakimir> what is the longest debug wire you have used?
2019-04-09T16:17:38 < kakimir> what do you think about 2meters in automotive conditions
2019-04-09T16:19:13 < Cracki> wanna shield that?
2019-04-09T16:19:58 < Cracki> no, i haven't used 2 meters of ribbon cable or soggy bootstrap . didn't dongs do loose wires once and it worked?
2019-04-09T16:20:11 < dongs> aandrew: what the fuck do you think they're doing there.
2019-04-09T16:21:28 < aandrew> dongs: ?
2019-04-09T16:21:33 < dongs> i mean that china shit
2019-04-09T16:21:39 < dongs> did they clone xeon or something
2019-04-09T16:21:45 < aandrew> oh
2019-04-09T16:21:57 < aandrew> I'm not sure; I seriously doubt you could effectively clone something like that. had to be inside shit
2019-04-09T16:22:08 < dongs> or is it some kinda interposer thing that sits between xeon and shit
2019-04-09T16:22:10 < dongs> for spying
2019-04-09T16:22:31 < dongs> lol @ their spy DDR4 shit that you can dump adress/data traces to somewhere
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2019-04-09T16:30:45 < karlp> aandrew:I've got no tolerance for putting videos on youtube that you can't show, fuck that.
2019-04-09T16:30:52 < aandrew> nobody did that
2019-04-09T16:31:04 < aandrew> his video stands alone, he was just linking to source material which I appreciate
2019-04-09T16:31:13 < aandrew> also that clip he *did* show was from the 80s, hence the quality
2019-04-09T16:31:22 < aandrew> I think you misinterpreted what he was doing
2019-04-09T16:31:48 < karlp> he did, all of a sudden his video stopped being a video, and started being an ad for his website.
2019-04-09T16:31:53 < karlp> so I turned it off.
2019-04-09T16:31:59 < karlp> it was quite interesting up to that point
2019-04-09T16:32:26 < aandrew> yes, at the end of his videos he does a bit of that but IMO it's still way less annoying than 99% of "youtubers" out there
2019-04-09T16:32:32 < aandrew> but ok, I get what you're saying
2019-04-09T16:33:41 < karlp> https://youtu.be/gNRnrn5DE58?t=678 this shit
2019-04-09T16:34:02 < karlp> like, just fucking drop that from your video.
2019-04-09T16:36:00 < aandrew> yes, that was stupid
2019-04-09T16:36:19 < aandrew> so you only saw the first half
2019-04-09T16:36:23 < aandrew> there's lots more at 11:40+
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2019-04-09T16:37:44 < bitmask> oh glorious day, welcome it into your heart and in turn be thy gloriousness
2019-04-09T16:39:58 < qyx> good morning
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2019-04-09T17:31:56 < ColdKeyboard> Is there an USB HUB IC that allows you to turn on/off devices programatically (through USB host)?
2019-04-09T17:32:51 < karlp> lots of them.
2019-04-09T17:33:17 < karlp> as long as you actually wire up the port control stuff propelry, which no-one does.
2019-04-09T17:33:54 < ColdKeyboard> karlp: Do you have a PN in mind or a Google query? :)
2019-04-09T17:34:39 < Adluc> karlp: currently solving this problem with CTS/DTR to toggle RESET/BOOT0, and cannot find any "proper" solution, also suitable for low level stuff except https://github.com/bigclownlabs/bc-hardware/blob/master/out/bc-module-core/bc-module-core-rev-2-1-sch.pdf
2019-04-09T17:36:22 < mawk> your pdf is corrupt
2019-04-09T17:36:30 < mawk> you're trying to hack me
2019-04-09T17:37:34 < rajkosto> is big clown related to meat clown ?
2019-04-09T17:38:22 < karlp> is adluc coldkeyboard?
2019-04-09T17:38:55 < karlp> what's the pdf related to?
2019-04-09T17:39:13 < ColdKeyboard> wth? 
2019-04-09T17:39:27 < ColdKeyboard> Nope
2019-04-09T17:39:37 < Adluc> karlp: its basically this https://shop.bigclown.com/core-module/
2019-04-09T17:39:45 < karlp> ok, thought I might have had nick changes ignored.
2019-04-09T17:39:51 < karlp> Adluc:were you talking to me?
2019-04-09T17:40:21 < Adluc> generally I saw in aggregated chatlog someone mentioning USB/UART/GPIO combo
2019-04-09T17:40:44 < karlp> ColdKeyboard:probably all the microchip and ti parts? probably the cheap ones too, any of the ones that have the pins for port control.
2019-04-09T17:40:46 < qyx> I don't quite understand your pnp-npn solution
2019-04-09T17:41:03 < karlp> Adluc:so you saw keywords and felt a need to spam your board or something?
2019-04-09T17:41:43 < karlp> ColdKeyboard: they don't always document the hub control messages they respond to though, you need to steal it from tracing their vendor debug config tools or lean on an FAE.
2019-04-09T17:41:47 < Adluc> technically yes :D short on more ideas
2019-04-09T17:42:18 < karlp> Adluc: I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about
2019-04-09T17:42:29 < karlp> "solving this problem" with no context, and pasting an entire schematic?
2019-04-09T17:43:01 < Adluc> oh wait, the discussion was for USB hub, not USB/UART, my bad for not reading context
2019-04-09T17:43:38 < jpa-> eh
2019-04-09T17:43:42 < Adluc> nevermind then
2019-04-09T17:43:45 < karlp> what cad tool made that bigclown schematics?
2019-04-09T17:44:05 < Adluc> I suppose altium (not mine design)
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2019-04-09T17:44:28 < ColdKeyboard> karlp: Got it. I'll look for some. I just found out that "smart USB hub" means (or at least should) that you can selectively enable/disable devices
2019-04-09T17:45:06 < jpa-> looks like eagle to me, but who knows
2019-04-09T17:45:13 < karlp> qyx: I presum it's doing a logic inversion of them? two signals in, two signals out?
2019-04-09T17:45:31 < karlp> doesn't look like the eagle I remember, but maybe it' sjust because its in b&w now?
2019-04-09T17:45:46 < qyx> I would say so, but they are connected weirdly
2019-04-09T17:45:46 < karlp> yeah, I guess eagle if I think in colour
2019-04-09T17:45:57 < qyx> I used to export such schematics from egale in b&w mode
2019-04-09T17:46:36 < karlp> interesting having the pcb pics of the jumpers in the schematics...
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2019-04-09T17:50:17 < bonzibuddy> Hello - question for the gurus, I'm trying to bring up a board with an stm32f401re, HSE clock @ 16MHz... configuring via stm32cubemx, but if the clock divs/pll put the main clock anywhere >56MHz the CPU hardfaults.  From the datasheet it seems like 84 MHz should be possible - has anyone run into this before?
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2019-04-09T17:50:59 < mawk> cubemx says your clock conf is fine?
2019-04-09T17:51:01 < mawk> no red cross
2019-04-09T17:51:10 < bonzibuddy> mawk: yep, that is correct
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2019-04-09T17:51:55 < jpa-> bonzibuddy: have you set flash wait states correctly? what is the hardfault status info?
2019-04-09T17:52:02 < bonzibuddy> build quality isnt _great_ on these boards, its some discount fab shop.  But i figure the HSE is always runnign at the same frequency, so that shouldnt matter?
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2019-04-09T17:52:16 < jpa-> (check SCB->CFSR or armv7m vecstate macro in gdb)
2019-04-09T17:52:41 < bonzibuddy> jpa-: that is interesting, i was not aware of that configuration.  I will look into that tonight
2019-04-09T17:52:55 < karlp> I'd bet your clock config actually isn't correct.
2019-04-09T17:54:02 < bonzibuddy> karlp interesting - any pointers or gotchas?  I'm relying wholly on stm32cubemx so far, I'm still pretty green on this product line
2019-04-09T17:54:23 < jpa-> 0 wait states (default) is valid up to 30 MHz, so hardfault after 56MHz sounds reasonable
2019-04-09T17:54:46 < jpa-> especially if you are really getting hardfault and not just getting infinite wait when PLL fails to lock
2019-04-09T17:56:02 < bonzibuddy> jpa- thanks, I will investigate that!  Re actual hardfault or not - All i know is that trustudio/stlink is reporting a hardfault but I'm afraid i dont know what i dont know at this point :)
2019-04-09T17:57:06 < jpa-> well, that's probably a hardfault and would match flash waitstates, especially if the CFSR says "bus error" or "invalid instruction"; i'm not sure if cubemx should set waitstates automatically or if you have to do that separately
2019-04-09T17:57:26 < mawk> cube lets you set them
2019-04-09T17:57:34 < mawk> at least
2019-04-09T17:58:25 < bonzibuddy> sweet.  I like this theory.  I'll keep the channel posted when i test tonight (at the dayjob now0
2019-04-09T17:59:17 < jpa-> is your dayjob developing bonzibuddy?
2019-04-09T18:00:17 < bonzibuddy> jpa- : yes for the most part, linux/open source/server-y dev stuff
2019-04-09T18:00:43 < jpa-> oh, they have a linux version of bonzibuddy now? ;)
2019-04-09T18:02:11 < bonzibuddy> on my system, but linus wont accept my patches (:3
2019-04-09T18:02:27 < jpa-> he's such a lamer
2019-04-09T18:06:09 < bonzibuddy> ill wear him down yet.  I must admit, trustudio/stm32cubemx has been perhaps the easiest starting point short of an arduino i've had so far
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2019-04-09T18:24:56 < brdb> hah bonzibuddy++, great nick
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2019-04-09T18:47:21 < kakimir> http://www.windows93.net
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2019-04-09T18:50:22 < aandrew> that's actually a pretty slick website
2019-04-09T18:50:28 < mawk> I'm playing GAFA 3D on your site kakimir 
2019-04-09T18:51:07 < kakimir> kudos to who ever made that
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2019-04-09T19:10:43 < mawk> I'm dead at level 2
2019-04-09T19:10:44 < mawk> :
2019-04-09T19:10:45 < mawk> :(
2019-04-09T19:11:46 < kakimir> I should go voting
2019-04-09T19:11:53 < kakimir> voting closes at 20:00
2019-04-09T19:13:24 < mawk> go
2019-04-09T19:14:36 < kakimir> too early boi
2019-04-09T19:15:02 < kakimir> everything needs to be done just in time
2019-04-09T19:18:12 < mawk> lol
2019-04-09T19:24:21 < jpa-> meh, go on sunday
2019-04-09T19:24:25 < jpa-> it's too snowy today
2019-04-09T19:25:30 < kakimir> what do you mean?
2019-04-09T19:25:33 < kakimir> sun is shining
2019-04-09T19:25:44 < kakimir> wind is 20m/s
2019-04-09T19:27:21 < kakimir> what to buy from grocery store
2019-04-09T19:27:33 < mawk> cigarettes
2019-04-09T19:28:20 < kakimir> snus
2019-04-09T19:28:24 < kakimir> vodka
2019-04-09T19:28:31 < kakimir> a carrot
2019-04-09T19:28:59 < kakimir> painkillers
2019-04-09T19:28:59 < Steffanx> Stroopwafels
2019-04-09T19:29:16 < bonzibuddy> +1 for stroopwafels
2019-04-09T19:29:48 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
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2019-04-09T19:43:27 < kakimir> let's go
2019-04-09T19:54:45 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-09T19:55:00 < kakimir> it's not so easy
2019-04-09T19:55:21 < kakimir> line is 200meters long
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2019-04-09T19:57:27 < jpa-> 200 meters? what are they doing there, giving out free buckets or something?
2019-04-09T19:58:21 < mawk> kakimir's people loves democracy
2019-04-09T19:58:27 < mawk> so they go vote with smile on their faces
2019-04-09T20:00:17 < Cracki> fucking magic! my hard faults disappeared. maybe because I built it once on another computer, but rebuilding should nullify any effect from that
2019-04-09T20:00:48 < mawk> sometimes it's not enough, depending on the project
2019-04-09T20:00:53 < mawk> you have several levels of cleaning
2019-04-09T20:02:39 < kakimir> oh wow i should have come when I first mentioned it
2019-04-09T20:02:55 < Cracki> 200 meter debug wire?
2019-04-09T20:03:08 < mawk> 200 meters voting queue
2019-04-09T20:03:14 < Cracki> what are you voting for
2019-04-09T20:03:38 < Cracki> *scans backlog*
2019-04-09T20:04:04 < bitmask> I need to learn how to trim a beard... 
2019-04-09T20:04:24 < bitmask> screw it, I'm just not gonna get a job so I dont have to worry about it
2019-04-09T20:04:34 < Cracki> get a trimmer?
2019-04-09T20:04:43 < bitmask> I have one, I want a better one though
2019-04-09T20:04:49 < bitmask> I'm not great at shaping my neck though
2019-04-09T20:04:51 < Cracki> trimmer and a suitable comb
2019-04-09T20:05:06 < mawk> why wouldn't you get a job bitmask ?
2019-04-09T20:05:09 < mawk> you said you have an interview
2019-04-09T20:05:15 < Cracki> there are those trimmers with vacuum attachment. they keep hairs straight and even
2019-04-09T20:05:29 < bitmask> yea tomorrow, I'm trying to groom myself to look presentable and trimming my beard is annoying
2019-04-09T20:05:35 < Cracki> neckbeard? shave it
2019-04-09T20:05:56 < bitmask> yea my neck is shaved but the lines where the beard starts is a bit difficult
2019-04-09T20:06:05 < Cracki> the only respectable neckbeard looks like stallman's
2019-04-09T20:06:07 < bitmask> thats the toughest part
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2019-04-09T20:06:37 < bitmask> I should go get some clothes too, hmm
2019-04-09T20:06:59 < Cracki> yeh showing up without clothes might work in a nudist camp
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2019-04-09T20:07:02 < jpa-> aren't you interviewing for the Senior Naked Hairy Dude position?
2019-04-09T20:07:08 < bitmask> :)
2019-04-09T20:07:17 < bitmask> I wish
2019-04-09T20:07:35 < bitmask> I should trim my pubes while I'm at it
2019-04-09T20:07:40 < bitmask> just incase they ask to see em
2019-04-09T20:08:24 < Cracki> doesn't sound very technical, that job
2019-04-09T20:08:35 < bitmask> you wouldnt think, but it is
2019-04-09T20:08:56 < bitmask> you gotta be naked and hairy for a reason
2019-04-09T20:09:30 < bitmask> should I get high before my interview? 
2019-04-09T20:10:58 < jpa-> just read up on laurenceb links; if there is an uncomfortable silent moment you can lighten the mood by telling one of those jokes
2019-04-09T20:11:06 < bitmask> haha
2019-04-09T20:11:25 < Steffanx> It will be awkward....
2019-04-09T20:11:25 < bitmask> Ive been reading up on what they use and I dont think I like it, but whatever
2019-04-09T20:11:26 < bitmask> you ever use xamarin?
2019-04-09T20:11:50 < Steffanx> Nah
2019-04-09T20:11:55 < jpa-> is it for causing stomach aches or for healing them? i always forget which is which
2019-04-09T20:12:16 < bitmask> causing it seems like :P
2019-04-09T20:12:23 < jpa-> oh well, mono and C# are nice enough
2019-04-09T20:12:44 < bonzibuddy> old work used xamarin, it had very mixed opinions
2019-04-09T20:12:46 < bitmask> never used mono and limited C# but they said they were ok with that
2019-04-09T20:13:03 < bitmask> I learn pretty quickly anyway
2019-04-09T20:13:06 < bitmask> I hope
2019-04-09T20:13:26 < Steffanx> Better call it C-hasktag during the interview
2019-04-09T20:13:32 < bitmask> haha
2019-04-09T20:13:33 < Steffanx> Hashtag*
2019-04-09T20:13:36 < bitmask> that would be great
2019-04-09T20:13:42 < bitmask> they would just say bye
2019-04-09T20:13:45 < bitmask> nothing else
2019-04-09T20:14:51 < jpa-> "Yeah I don't know much about ex-amarin, but I'm a real guru on see-hashtag"
2019-04-09T20:15:35 < mawk> lol
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2019-04-09T20:16:37 < bitmask> I dont know if I like how user friendly xamarin seems to be.  linking between the xaml and c# just uses an auto created findByName method instead of linking some other way
2019-04-09T20:17:00 < bitmask> I may be nitpicking, I need to learn more about it
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2019-04-09T20:18:01 < Steffanx> Dont forget the see-sharp joke bitmask 
2019-04-09T20:18:11 < bitmask> oh I wont
2019-04-09T20:19:25 < Steffanx> I dont know xamarin but .net binding stuff works well
2019-04-09T20:19:32 < bonzibuddy> the xamarin dev's i worked with were always fighting platform specific issues on iOS
2019-04-09T20:19:44 < Steffanx> Wpf stuff
2019-04-09T20:19:45 < bonzibuddy> not great for a "cross platform" framework.  lol
2019-04-09T20:19:59 < bonzibuddy> but i think its because they were doing very niche stuff
2019-04-09T20:20:00 < bitmask> yea thats what I worry about
2019-04-09T20:20:15 < Steffanx> Dont worry.
2019-04-09T20:20:35 < bitmask> be happy
2019-04-09T20:21:11 < mawk> tamarin tastes like oranges, a bit
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2019-04-09T20:23:44 < ub|k> shouldn't setting DBG_I2C1_SMBUS_TIMEOUT be enough to debug I2C?
2019-04-09T20:24:43 < kakimir> debug over dial
2019-04-09T20:26:44 < ub|k> kakimir: sorry, what's that?
2019-04-09T20:27:41 < kakimir> kakeism
2019-04-09T20:28:15 < ub|k> fair enough
2019-04-09T20:29:04 < kakimir> how is your stm32 jorney?
2019-04-09T20:29:35 < kakimir> journey*
2019-04-09T20:29:45  * PaulFertser never used mono (and C# in general) but contributed several bugfixes to it. Who would have thought a "managed" language with GC can have memory leaks and null pointer dereference crashes...
2019-04-09T20:30:54 < ub|k> kakimir: so so
2019-04-09T20:31:03 < kakimir> so and so?
2019-04-09T20:31:09 < ub|k> kakimir: things seem to work 50% of the time
2019-04-09T20:31:23 < ub|k> i made the DAC work... with only one channel
2019-04-09T20:31:42 < kakimir> still rusting?
2019-04-09T20:31:46 < ub|k> and it the code works 50% of the time because of an i2c issue (probably in the rust HAL)
2019-04-09T20:31:47 < ub|k> yeah
2019-04-09T20:31:51 < ub|k> i am that masochistic
2019-04-09T20:31:56 < ub|k> but it's been quite fun
2019-04-09T20:32:07 < karlp> have you been using rust this whole time?
2019-04-09T20:32:54 < ub|k> yes
2019-04-09T20:32:59 < karlp> heh
2019-04-09T20:33:02 < kakimir> he diverted to C when trying to get i2c work
2019-04-09T20:33:18 < kakimir> are you sure your rust interface is 100% implemented ub|k?
2019-04-09T20:33:25 < ub|k> yes, but then went back to C once I realized that my mistake was a configuration one
2019-04-09T20:34:00 < ub|k> kakimir: no, i'm sure there are bugs in it. actually, there is a PR to fix I2C but it seems to only work... 50% of the time
2019-04-09T20:34:14 < ub|k> so, i thought i'd just try to go step by step and figure out what is going wrong
2019-04-09T20:34:21 < kakimir> so that you are not just playing with "placeholder" "implement interface here"
2019-04-09T20:36:29 < kakimir> you should probs have the interface code open in another screen
2019-04-09T20:36:43 < kakimir> and your application in another
2019-04-09T20:37:05 < kakimir> can you debug rust?
2019-04-09T20:37:21 < kakimir> rust application*
2019-04-09T20:39:45 < ub|k> yep sure
2019-04-09T20:39:49 < ub|k> with gdb
2019-04-09T20:39:53 < ub|k> and openocd
2019-04-09T20:40:08 < ub|k> oh, i can't find this on the RM: https://github.com/stm32-rs/stm32f4xx-hal/blob/master/src/i2c.rs#L773-L777
2019-04-09T20:40:55 < jpa-> it's probably in multimaster section
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2019-04-09T20:44:28 < upgrdman_> https://www.reddit.com/r/hmmm/comments/bb52t4/hmmm/
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2019-04-09T20:48:59 < Cracki> hmmm
2019-04-09T20:56:58 < BrainDamage> karlp: I think that drawing is from fritzing ...
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2019-04-09T21:23:56 < ub|k> i love it when stop starts working when i set a breakpoint
2019-04-09T21:23:59 < ub|k> *stuff
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2019-04-09T21:31:59 < Cracki> found a list of aliexpress "advanced" search url parameters they removed from the UI a few years back: https://www.kaibader.de/aliexpress-search-customization-and-optimization-via-hidden-sort-options-in-the-url/
2019-04-09T21:34:24 < aandrew>  Cracki: I usually use aliseeks now
2019-04-09T21:35:09 < Cracki> I just saw that, gonna check it out
2019-04-09T21:37:39 < Cracki> I would still like to see a "minQuantity" that includes non-lots (order multiple) that would be just as cheap
2019-04-09T21:38:36 < Cracki> that'd require calculating shipping for my desired number of items
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2019-04-09T21:56:04 < jadew`> apple is such a shit company
2019-04-09T21:56:11 < Steffanx> ok
2019-04-09T21:56:36 < jadew`> they're the only ones that have a phone OS and emulator, but the emulator only works on their OS
2019-04-09T21:57:14 < jadew`> I can't fix shit that doesn't work on their stupid OS, from windows
2019-04-09T22:04:43 < catphish> it is kind of annoying they the ios dev tools only work on macos
2019-04-09T22:04:55 < jadew`> yep
2019-04-09T22:05:34 < jadew`> they do everything in their power not to cooperate with everything non-apple
2019-04-09T22:07:04 < jadew`> they even discontinued safari for windows
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2019-04-09T22:13:32 < Steffanx> that was a waste of time anyway
2019-04-09T22:14:10 < jadew`> sure, but how are web devs supposed to support their crappy browser now?
2019-04-09T22:14:19 < jadew`> are they expecting every indian to buy a mac too?
2019-04-09T22:15:01 < jadew`> trying to rip off developers who don't want your products is just stupid
2019-04-09T22:15:17 < jadew`> and I hope they'll pay for it
2019-04-09T22:16:01 < jadew`> did you see that recent reportage by CBS? Louis Rossman posted it on his channel
2019-04-09T22:16:32 < jadew`> they're deleting any comments on their forums that indicate that their phones may be repaired and that people can recover their photos
2019-04-09T22:16:47 < jadew`> fucking evil
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2019-04-09T22:17:34 < jadew`> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K98JYRBGyrg
2019-04-09T22:17:53 < catphish> this rx8 is frustrating, i used to think i was competent at operating a car, but i just can't get it to take off fast
2019-04-09T22:20:15 < jadew`> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yJKix17yYE
2019-04-09T22:21:16 < kakimir> did you burn the clutch already catphish?
2019-04-09T22:22:40 < catphish> kakimir: actually yes, today, but only because i was trying to reverse fast up a hill
2019-04-09T22:23:13 < catphish> driving forward i've been quite nice to it so far
2019-04-09T22:23:51 < jadew`> catphish, maybe you had too high expectations?
2019-04-09T22:24:01 < kakimir> how do you burn your clutch with reverse?
2019-04-09T22:24:18 < kakimir> oh you were slipping it?
2019-04-09T22:24:38 < catphish> kakimir: yes, that's the only way to burn a clutch
2019-04-09T22:24:54 < Steffanx> dont do that catphish
2019-04-09T22:25:34 < catphish> the engine has almost no torque, it was hard not to stall uphill in reverse without excessive clutch wear, hence my mistake today :)
2019-04-09T22:25:57 < Steffanx> Who drives backwards up hill?
2019-04-09T22:26:10 < catphish> well i can't say it's a common requirement :)
2019-04-09T22:26:10 < Steffanx> Just for the fun of it?
2019-04-09T22:26:50 < catphish> i was going down a steep hill, i needed to turn round, there was a turning behind me
2019-04-09T22:26:54 < catphish> hence reversing up the hill
2019-04-09T22:27:02 < catphish> plus i was annoyed and in a hurry :)
2019-04-09T22:27:24 < Steffanx> impatient catphish hm
2019-04-09T22:27:30 < jadew`> catphish, wasn't that car supposed to be be very powerful? (am I mistaking it for something else)
2019-04-09T22:27:31 < jadew`> ?
2019-04-09T22:27:43 < catphish> jadew`: it's very powerful, it has 231hp
2019-04-09T22:27:53 < catphish> but it's 1.3l, it has no torque
2019-04-09T22:27:54 < jadew`> but only at high RPM?
2019-04-09T22:27:57 < catphish> right
2019-04-09T22:28:11 < catphish> you get the power at 8,000 rpm :)
2019-04-09T22:28:17 < jadew`> jeez...
2019-04-09T22:28:18 < catphish> like a bike
2019-04-09T22:28:37 < Steffanx> does it do like 1km/l then?
2019-04-09T22:28:43 < jadew`> heh
2019-04-09T22:28:45 < catphish> yep :)
2019-04-09T22:28:56 < catphish> so while it's awesome, it's hard work to get the speed out of it, i've not really got good at driving it yet
2019-04-09T22:29:10 < Steffanx> There goes peoples hard work saving earth
2019-04-09T22:29:19 < catphish> mostly trying to pull off without losing power is hard
2019-04-09T22:29:31 < catphish> i probably just need to abuse the clutch more
2019-04-09T22:29:52 < catphish> (but not in reverse)
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2019-04-09T22:37:24 < PaulFertser> Wankel, wow
2019-04-09T22:37:29 < catphish> yarr
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2019-04-09T23:17:27 < aandrew> is it possible to disable dcache for external RAM?
2019-04-09T23:17:54 < aandrew> maybe the MPU
2019-04-09T23:18:31 < zyp> you're gonna run an access pattern that's not very cacheable?
2019-04-09T23:18:53 < zyp> and yeah, I think MPU would manage that
2019-04-09T23:19:12 < aandrew> I'm accessing an FPGA over FMC
2019-04-09T23:19:17 < aandrew> it's not actually memory
2019-04-09T23:19:19 < zyp> ah, of course
2019-04-09T23:19:36 < zyp> been there, done that, on so on, albeit on F4 that doesn't have dcache
2019-04-09T23:19:56 < zyp> pretty sure you just configure it as a noncacheable region in MPU
2019-04-09T23:20:26 < zyp> just like the regions for memory mapped peripherals default to
2019-04-09T23:21:02 < aandrew> balls it would have been smarter of me to use FMC bank5 or 6
2019-04-09T23:21:05 < aandrew> those are already uncacheable
2019-04-09T23:35:38 < ub|k> ok, my code is hanging here: https://imgur.com/pOhgdqD.png
2019-04-09T23:36:01 < ub|k> after that start condition (S)
2019-04-09T23:36:58 < ub|k> it ends up stuck waiting for ADDR in SR1 to be set
2019-04-09T23:37:08 < ub|k> the add value is still in DR
2019-04-09T23:37:56 < zyp> ub|k, what are you trying to do? i2c slave?
2019-04-09T23:38:36 < ub|k> zyp: it's actually master
2019-04-09T23:38:59 < zyp> you're not showing the whole picture, start from the start condition
2019-04-09T23:39:18 < zyp> is this the first or second generation of the i2c peripheral? (which stm32 family is this?)
2019-04-09T23:39:38 < ub|k> zyp: stm32f407vg
2019-04-09T23:39:44 < zyp> okay, first
2019-04-09T23:40:44 < ub|k> zyp: it's a pretty long chain. here is it from the previous start repeat: https://imgur.com/G3Fv3mW.png
2019-04-09T23:41:09 < zyp> ah, okay
2019-04-09T23:41:17 < zyp> how many bytes are you trying to read?
2019-04-09T23:41:27 < ub|k> one
2019-04-09T23:41:40 < zyp> I'm sorry if I'm reasking stuff you've said, I haven't read the earlier conversation
2019-04-09T23:41:46 < ub|k> no problem :)
2019-04-09T23:41:52 < zyp> is your i2c driver interrupt driven or polling?
2019-04-09T23:42:02 < ub|k> polling
2019-04-09T23:42:19 < zyp> does other exchanges also fail, or just this particular one?
2019-04-09T23:42:44 < ub|k> it's kind of random. in some situations, other similar exchanges (write after read) fail as well
2019-04-09T23:42:49 < ub|k> sometimes it just works
2019-04-09T23:43:30 < zyp> it's probably a race condition then, I think there's some timing requirements that's hard to meet when polling, you might want to rewrite to interrupt driven
2019-04-09T23:44:38 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/i2c/i2c.cpp#n16 <- here's my i2c driver, it's fairly old and shitty, but as far as I can remember it worked fairly reliably when I used it
2019-04-09T23:44:57 < ub|k> thanks
2019-04-09T23:45:57 < ub|k> but i find it strange that it doesn't work fine. it may be blocking i/o, but anyway, i'm not doing anything else in paralle
2019-04-09T23:45:59 < ub|k> l
2019-04-09T23:47:02 < zyp> status registers are dumb and clears implicitly, so it might be you're sometimes getting two flags and only processing one, losing the other, maybe?
2019-04-09T23:48:24 < ub|k> hm... i found it that if i artificially extend the time between a stop and a start, it starts working reliably
2019-04-09T23:48:55 < zyp> have you tried looking at the bus with a scope? (as opposed to a logic analyzer)
2019-04-09T23:49:13 < ub|k> no
2019-04-09T23:49:16 < ub|k> but I can
2019-04-09T23:49:17 < ub|k> https://imgur.com/uYbe2Fw
2019-04-09T23:49:26 < zyp> could be you have too long rise times
2019-04-09T23:49:34 < ub|k> (see how the time between the two is different)
2019-04-09T23:49:41 < zyp> so the stop edge doesn't register properly before the start edge arrives
2019-04-09T23:50:17 < zyp> a LA would hide that because it might trigger at a different level, but a scope will make it fairly obvious
2019-04-09T23:51:33 < zyp> how strong are your pullup resistors?
2019-04-09T23:51:37 < ub|k> seems unlikely, since anyway, this is a dev board, shouldn't it be done in a way that that doesn't happen?
2019-04-09T23:52:04 < zyp> anybody can design bad hardware :)
2019-04-09T23:52:41 < zyp> especially if the issues only show when the software is doing really tight timing
2019-04-09T23:53:31  * ub|k is wondering how he can catch this burst in the oscilloscope
2019-04-09T23:54:01 < zyp> use a gpio to output a trigger signal, set scope to one shot mode
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2019-04-09T23:59:52 < ub|k> rise time seems to be ~0.5us
--- Day changed Wed Apr 10 2019
2019-04-10T00:00:13 < ub|k> so, less than the 1000ns the spec mentions
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2019-04-10T00:05:59 < ub|k> the logic analyzer says the P and S conditions are 5.333 us apart
2019-04-10T00:06:31 < zyp> should be safe then
2019-04-10T00:06:33 < ub|k> the datasheet of the DAC says that tbuf should be min 4.7us
2019-04-10T00:07:44 < ub|k> so, it should be fine, i guess
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2019-04-10T00:39:45 < Thorn> how much capacitance should I provide for sx127x so that it doesn't undervolt while transmitting? power from 18650 through a 3V3 1.5+A buck-boost
2019-04-10T00:41:10 < Thorn> I've been shown a supposedly low power board with an xbee and a bunch of Ta caps, asked the designer "don't they leak?" and he replied "they leak like crazy, we're trying to come up with alternatives"
2019-04-10T00:42:52 < Thorn> the obvious (to me) alternative (don't aim for hundreds of µF, use ceramics) is apparently not being considered
2019-04-10T00:43:07 < Thorn> am I downplaying the issue or what
2019-04-10T00:44:29 < BrainDamage> the datashit says 120mA under tx condition, you're an order of magnitude higher
2019-04-10T00:44:36 < BrainDamage> slap the standard 10uF and should work
2019-04-10T00:45:51 < Thorn> I've got 2x10µF on the output of the buck-boost as per its datasheet + 4.7µF close to the sx module
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2019-04-10T01:06:34 < mawk> nice karlp I have printf("%f") now
2019-04-10T01:07:13 < kakimir> basement codings
2019-04-10T01:07:26 < mawk> now to prevent data race I need to swap the global state when an irq happens
2019-04-10T01:07:33 < mawk> and I'll have the ultimate boilerplate after this
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2019-04-10T04:04:41 < jhg4[m]> ohai
2019-04-10T04:17:09 < dongs> sup dongs
2019-04-10T04:19:16 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/lANc8SK.mp4
2019-04-10T04:40:24 < jhg4[m]> found a weird one
2019-04-10T04:42:18 < jhg4[m]> have an STM32F427 that will hardfault in FreeRTOS on the initial powerup if the 3.3 v battery is dead or not installed. subsequent resets with power applied work without issue (when the vbat system is energized prior to the system reset).
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2019-04-10T05:04:08 < mawk> I implemented all the reentrancy wrappers for newlib-nano
2019-04-10T05:04:21 < mawk> now I can printf and malloc all I want everywhere, even in irq handlers or svc handlers
2019-04-10T05:04:40 < mawk> each task/context just needs to have its own set of global data like errno and so on
2019-04-10T05:04:45 < mawk> then everything goes smoothly
2019-04-10T05:05:30 < mawk> add -D_WANT_REENT_SMALL -D__SINGLE_THREAD__ to makefile, then use my macros in your irq handlers: https://paste.serveur.io/MHY8T6fq.c
2019-04-10T05:05:58 < mawk> REENT_DEFS; at beggining of the function, then REENT_BEGIN() before calling handlers and REENT_END() when you're done
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2019-04-10T06:00:45 < jhg4[m]> Got it! Thank goodness for SWV trace!
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2019-04-10T06:03:31 < R2COM> yo
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2019-04-10T06:50:32 < Cracki> jhg4[m], what did you do?
2019-04-10T06:50:50 < Cracki> oh good you had hardfaults as well!
2019-04-10T06:52:07 < jhg4[m]> Delete delete delete
2019-04-10T06:52:32 < jhg4[m]> Killed the invalid code
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2019-04-10T07:02:30  * bitmask starts to get nervous
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2019-04-10T07:35:56 < Cracki> the "invalid" code was what?
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2019-04-10T10:03:06 < qyx> Thorn: are you going to do 20dBm or what?
2019-04-10T10:03:31 < qyx> also iirc it has power ramp-up, so the vreg should be able to maintain regulation
2019-04-10T10:04:36 < qyx> and +-120mA for 1.5A buck-boost is ok as BrainDamage says
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2019-04-10T10:09:13 < qyx> for 18650 I would rather use a 3V buck/LDO if exact 3V3 is not needed
2019-04-10T10:13:36 < zyp> why? to accept lower input voltages?
2019-04-10T10:15:29 < qyx> yes, because under 3V there is not much capacity left in the liion
2019-04-10T10:15:43 < qyx> but a 3V3 LDO is not that bad
2019-04-10T10:16:03 < qyx> and sense Vdd and put mcu in standby when it goes lower
2019-04-10T10:16:16 < qyx> there is too much unprotected liions out there
2019-04-10T10:16:26 < zyp> in my experience, by the time you're hitting the dropout voltage of a 3.3V LDO, battery is already fairly empty, especially if it's lightly loaded
2019-04-10T10:16:47 < qyx> true, but at 3V0 it is even emptier :P
2019-04-10T10:17:01 < qyx> but yeah
2019-04-10T10:17:12 < qyx> it doesn't matter much
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2019-04-10T10:17:18 < zyp> discharge curve gets pretty steep at the end
2019-04-10T10:17:44 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/AcHkc.png <- ref. some battery I measured once
2019-04-10T10:19:52 < qyx> with a 3V3 UVLO I am able to get 14200mAh from a 6x NCR18650B
2019-04-10T10:20:17 < qyx> they are 3250mAh or so according to datasheet
2019-04-10T10:20:35 < qyx> which is slightly under 75%
2019-04-10T10:21:21 < qyx> but they are in service since Dec 2017, about 20% DoD every day
2019-04-10T10:34:25 < zyp> hmm
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2019-04-10T10:36:17 < zyp> I have a task that produces bytes sporadically, to be fed out through a peripheral
2019-04-10T10:38:11 < zyp> currently it's blocking if the peripheral is busy, it's a quick and dirty solution that mostly works
2019-04-10T10:38:49 < zyp> but depending on flow control, peripheral might in some situations keep it blocking for long periods
2019-04-10T10:39:22 < zyp> which keeps this task spinning and lower priority tasks doesn't get to run
2019-04-10T10:40:13 < zyp> the dumb workaround would be just putting a sleep in the spin loop, but I don't want that
2019-04-10T10:44:11 < zyp> on the receive side, I have a queue that gets filled by the ISR, that the task can block on without spinning
2019-04-10T10:44:35 < zyp> but what's a good pattern to do that on the transmit side without race conditions?
2019-04-10T10:47:42 < zyp> if I had a TXE interrupt, the obvious solution would be to fill the queue, then enable TXE, TXE immediately triggers, ISR consumes from the queue and starts transmitting
2019-04-10T10:48:23 < zyp> then when TXE triggers again and finds an empty queue, it disables the TXE interrupt again
2019-04-10T10:48:49 < zyp> that way the TXE ISR would manage all the transmitting without risk of races
2019-04-10T10:49:20 < zyp> but I don't, I only have a TXOK interrupt that triggers after transmitting something
2019-04-10T10:51:32 < zyp> in other words, task needs to start transmission
2019-04-10T10:53:01 < jly> That’s real smooth
2019-04-10T10:56:26 < zyp> I guess I could use a semaphore instead of a queue
2019-04-10T10:58:09 < zyp> task takes semaphore before transmitting, ISR gives semaphore back once done
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2019-04-10T11:14:21 < PaulFertser> zyp: then it sounds like you can delegate the actual sending to a super-lower-priority task that would be normally sleeping on a queue but when there's anything to send would be polling the register, no?
2019-04-10T11:15:24 < zyp> that wouldn't really change anything from just lowering the priority on this task
2019-04-10T11:15:39 < zyp> and I don't really want that either
2019-04-10T11:16:20 < zyp> the task in question is my command shell, and I would like to keep it high enough priority so that it still works if another task sits and spins
2019-04-10T11:17:05 < zyp> while not making itself block other tasks by spinning when the interface is not connected
2019-04-10T11:17:18 < PaulFertser> Are tasks of the same priority preempting each other by timer interrupt?
2019-04-10T11:17:47 < zyp> yes, I'm running freertos with preemptive multitasking
2019-04-10T11:18:53 < zyp> but I also need explicit priorities
2019-04-10T11:20:15 < PaulFertser> It sounds like you have two contradictory goals: to have the task high-priority but to have it not block other tasks while it's trying to transmit :) If you have nothing to transmit you are not spinning anyway. If you have something to transmit but the remote end is lagging/disconnected there should be some timeout embedded in spinning and then you can ask to be rescheduled after a delay I guess.
2019-04-10T11:21:53 < Cracki> uh so you have a device and you poll it? turn it into a "freertos"-aware thing so freertos can block your task if your task waits for data from the device
2019-04-10T11:22:02 < Cracki> i.e. what you do on the other end, also on the one end
2019-04-10T11:22:41 < PaulFertser> Hm, I guess what you want is that task being the same priority as the currently executing most-prioritised task, like some sort of automatic backwards priority inheritance :)
2019-04-10T11:22:46 < Cracki> even with polling you can turn that into something that blocks/resumes a using task
2019-04-10T11:23:55 < Cracki> if you do polling/spinning anywhere, that needs to be moved into freertos' awareness so it can suspend the task
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2019-04-10T11:26:35 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/9d9kQv3L/thank.JPG
2019-04-10T11:28:47 < zyp> Cracki, that was the goal, question was just how to do it while avoiding races :)
2019-04-10T11:29:12 < zyp> anyway, I implemented the semaphore solution now, works well enough for now
2019-04-10T11:30:41 < zyp> I'd still prefer a queue, this is CAN based so I can send 8 bytes per packet, and a queue would let me gather up multiple putc calls and stuff them into the same packet later
2019-04-10T11:30:50 < zyp> but eh
2019-04-10T11:31:21 < zyp> I figure if I wanna solve that later, I add a CAN task that consumes bytes over a queue and then sends packet on a semaphore
2019-04-10T11:31:44 < zyp> for now, this works and solves my problem
2019-04-10T11:31:49 < Thorn> qyx: I'm not planning to use max power in deployed devices but it'd be nice to at least be able to test it
2019-04-10T11:33:03 < zyp> PaulFertser, it's not contradictory
2019-04-10T11:33:38 < zyp> PaulFertser, I want this task to have a high enough priority that it'll still execute if other tasks are misbehaving, but at the same time I need this task to not misbehave so it doesn't keep other tasks from executing
2019-04-10T11:33:43 < PaulFertser> zyp: you solved it without polling, so now it isn't. But when writing that message I assumed polling just needs to be done, no way 'round it.
2019-04-10T11:36:15 < zyp> if polling actually needed to be done, I guess the solution would be to sleep between polls
2019-04-10T11:38:27 < PaulFertser> Or sleep between series of polls. That's what I meant, yes.
2019-04-10T11:48:43 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/yKf3f <- pretty simple fix
2019-04-10T11:55:53 < Cracki> freertos gives you queues
2019-04-10T11:56:34 < Cracki> yes, can task, or turn it into a bunch of data structures that are driven by interrupts and calls and rtos
2019-04-10T11:59:51 < Cracki> if ram is limited, I would look into squeezing it all into interrupt handlers
2019-04-10T12:00:28 < Cracki> maybe freertos gives you a way to run fixed custom code upon queue insertion
2019-04-10T12:07:39 < zyp> I'm going to decouple this shit from the CAN code later anyway
2019-04-10T12:07:51 < zyp> planning to use CAN for some other stuff as well
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2019-04-10T12:16:00 < karlp> did jhg4[m] ever say what their fix was?Ð
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2019-04-10T12:18:14 < zyp> no, also not what the problem was
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2019-04-10T12:22:30 < zyp> according to documentation, vbat is only ever used when vdd is not present, so my guess is they had a bug in some vbat monitoring code
2019-04-10T12:22:45 < zyp> or maybe backup domain initialization
2019-04-10T12:28:38 < mitrax> what's the proper way to disable floating point instructions (or rather get rid of the floating point abi stuff that gets linked even when you don't use floating points) with gcc?  appending +nofp to the -mcpu switch?
2019-04-10T12:30:34 < zyp> I think you might be confusing something
2019-04-10T12:31:09 < mitrax> i could well be :)
2019-04-10T12:31:30 < zyp> what is your goal?
2019-04-10T12:32:40 < zyp> if you're not using floats anywhere in your code, the compiler doesn't pull in any sort of floating point support code either
2019-04-10T12:33:08 < zyp> so if your goal is to get rid of the support code, what do you want the compiler to do about the code using it? give an error?
2019-04-10T12:33:21 < mitrax> i'm looking at the map file generated for a bootloader, and i have some float related stuff from the libgcc library that gets linked e.g __floatunsidf __subdf3 __divdf3 etc, although i'm not using floating point code anywhere, not sure why it gets linked
2019-04-10T12:33:49 < zyp> it's linked because it's used
2019-04-10T12:33:52 < mitrax> well it's likely that some code is using float somewhere but then i'd like the compiler to whine about it 
2019-04-10T12:34:38 < zyp> okay, in that case it seems you're right, you add +nofp to the -mcpu argument
2019-04-10T12:40:49 < mitrax> ok, i'm asking cause -mcpu=cortex-m4+nofp makes the compiler choke on regular code (non floating point related), i get a bunch of  e.g"selected processor does not support `rbit r0,r0' in Thumb mode"
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2019-04-10T12:43:06 < zyp> heh
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2019-04-10T12:51:14 < mitrax> uh oh, found the culprit, had some cast to double somewhere :)
2019-04-10T12:51:43 < zyp> surprise surprise :)
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2019-04-10T13:07:25 < PaulFertser> I think the easy way to find such code is looking through objdump -S output
2019-04-10T13:17:21 < mitrax> good point
2019-04-10T13:17:34 < specing> Hello - Does anyone know if stm32f072 ADC is 5V tolerant? Where could I find this info? Neither the device manual itself nor the family reference manual contain anything about 5V tolerance on ADC or clamping diodes
2019-04-10T13:18:00 < specing> most pins are marked 'FT' - 5V tolerant, but not the ADC ones
2019-04-10T13:19:02 < zyp> not sure about f072 in particular, but as far as I'm aware, no stm32s have 5V tolerant ADCs
2019-04-10T13:19:35 < specing> zyp: I am asking because I saw stm32f103 schematics with a 4.5V clamping diode on the input
2019-04-10T13:20:05 < specing> (and I checked f103 datasheet as well, no 5V tolerance mentioned)
2019-04-10T13:20:35 < specing> What is the best way to clamp the inputs? zeners + resistors?
2019-04-10T13:20:50 < zyp> I believe that even on parts that have 5V tolerant pins with ADC capability, the documentation states "except in ADC mode"
2019-04-10T13:21:18 < zyp> what will you be protecting against?
2019-04-10T13:22:18 < specing> I'm measuring voltage on 12V rails of a spot welder - I have TVS protecting it from avalanches, but it is quite possible that it is still going to avalanche hard
2019-04-10T13:22:56 < specing> right now I have a 1:4 resistor divider there and am picking zeners
2019-04-10T13:23:46 < specing> 1500A on 1m of wire is no joke :)
2019-04-10T13:24:32 < zyp> I think I'd prefer having a high-resistance divider feeding into an opamp or something in front of the ADC
2019-04-10T13:25:15 < specing> hmm, I guess that would make the upper portion of the ADC range usable
2019-04-10T13:26:36 < specing> how much would an opamp skew the readings?
2019-04-10T13:27:32 < zyp> not at all? I'd expect it to make them more accurate, since it takes the adc load on the divider out of the equation
2019-04-10T13:29:03 < specing> ok - I'm not an EE and never worked with opamps
2019-04-10T13:29:08 < zyp> I mean, normally you have to scale the divider so the current going into the ADC is negligible compared to the current going into the low side resistor
2019-04-10T13:29:40 < Thorn> Arabsat-6A / Falcon Heavy T - 12h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXMGu2d8c8g
2019-04-10T13:30:16 < specing> Thorn: Allahu Launchbar?
2019-04-10T13:30:33 < zyp> the same holds true when you put in an opamp in between, but the current going into the opamp is on the order of nanoamps or so, while the ADC may consume milliamps
2019-04-10T13:31:04 < specing> zyp: ok, any example circuits I can look up?
2019-04-10T13:31:14 < zyp> which means you can run less current in the divider, i.e. use larger resistors, and the larger resistors won't let harmful currents through
2019-04-10T13:31:19 < specing> (i.e. what to google^Wquack for?)
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2019-04-10T13:35:32 < specing> Btw - anyone here interested in a car battery powered spot welder that can go through my design once its finished and tell me what I'm missing/what to improve? There are ~3 such designs out there already, but this one is a cheapskate one at 20 eur of components :D
2019-04-10T13:45:41 < jly> m
2019-04-10T13:45:55 < specing> jly: 'm'?
2019-04-10T13:46:35 < jly> hi sir
2019-04-10T13:47:36 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-04-10T13:47:56 < Steffanx> Welcome jly. How is your stm32 project?
2019-04-10T13:48:39 < jly> wait what is stm32>
2019-04-10T13:52:26 < specing> kek
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2019-04-10T14:21:14 < Mangy_Dog> its a passive agressive meat popcicle
2019-04-10T14:33:46 < jpa-> eh, this TFT controller has SPI control bus.. but calls the signals "SDA" and "SCL"
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2019-04-10T14:39:50 < Cracki> mitrax, why do you have a cast to double in bootloader source?
2019-04-10T14:41:18 < Cracki> just wondering how that happens
2019-04-10T14:46:26 < zyp> heh
2019-04-10T14:46:53 < zyp> xp power still keeps calling me asking how it's going with that project they sent me some samples for a couple of years ago
2019-04-10T14:48:23 < karlp>  specing pretty sure the cheapest one is just to wire the battery up directly....
2019-04-10T14:48:36  * karlp was looking at xppower and traco again last night.
2019-04-10T14:48:44 < karlp> fucking ac/dc isolation shits are annoying.
2019-04-10T14:48:59 < karlp> damn power supplies actually being important
2019-04-10T14:54:04 < mitrax> Cracki: long version since you're curious, the firmware update is done through a RS485 link (the board is one of several slaves on a bus), i have some random number generator code seeded with the cpu id that's used to determin a random delay after which a slave responds to a discovery broadcast packet, the random generator code at some point used a conversion to double to avoid overflow of 32 
2019-04-10T14:54:04 < mitrax> bits integer instead of 64 bits arithmetics, it's something i copy pasted from some non-embedded old code, and i had forgotten about it until now
2019-04-10T14:55:25 < karlp> how well has that worked for you mitrax ? 
2019-04-10T14:55:33 < karlp> what's the range of delays that can be chosen?
2019-04-10T14:55:48 < karlp> what baud rates are you using and what size frames for the discovery?
2019-04-10T15:01:10 < mitrax> karlp: it's the master that decides of the delay (it's sent within the frame, which can be up to 65 sec), discovery frame is 10 bytes, answer is 12 bytes, it's low speed 115200 bauds, seems to work fine so far, but i haven't tested with more than 5 or 6 devices (i won't have more than that), with a lot of nodes that would require to compute the probability of collision and make sure the random 
2019-04-10T15:01:10 < mitrax> generator output is uniform
2019-04-10T15:03:24 < karlp> ah, 115200 is "fast" and 5/6 nodes is "few" so fair enough.
2019-04-10T15:03:40 < karlp> I scan 247 modbus addresses in ~30 seconds instead :)
2019-04-10T15:03:46 < zyp> haha :)
2019-04-10T15:04:40 < karlp> I was hoping you'd got something much faster :)
2019-04-10T15:05:44 < mitrax> no no i meant the maximum delay is 2^16 ms, but to discover 5-6 devices i set that time to 2 or 3sec
2019-04-10T15:07:04 < karlp> so, the master tells the devices to respond a random time within that 2-3 seconds?
2019-04-10T15:07:38 < mitrax> yeah, since i didn't have time to experiment i made that delay configurable
2019-04-10T15:07:42 < rajkosto> jpa-, yep
2019-04-10T15:07:49 < rajkosto> i actually asked about it here before i ordered
2019-04-10T15:08:00 < rajkosto> its because its nonstandard SPI with DC line required too
2019-04-10T15:08:07 < rajkosto> and CS sometimes optional (if you dont use CS you must use RST though)
2019-04-10T15:08:27 < karlp> what's DC line?
2019-04-10T15:08:31 < rajkosto> Data/Command
2019-04-10T15:08:45 < karlp> well that just sounds dumb :)
2019-04-10T15:09:07 < rajkosto> they CAN operate in i2c mode too, which is why those 2 pins are named that
2019-04-10T15:09:14 < rajkosto> but you must swap out resistors for that to happen
2019-04-10T15:10:40 < rajkosto> also, in spi mode, the SDA is bidirectional too
2019-04-10T15:10:51 < rajkosto> i have code for it for stm32f1
2019-04-10T15:11:48 < zyp> karlp, done right, that discovery model should work out fairly well
2019-04-10T15:14:20 < zyp> each slave gets a flag telling it if it's undiscovered or not, master has a command like "find undiscovered slave", each undiscovered slave waits a pseudo-random delay while monitoring the bus, as soon as they see activity by somebody else, they back off
2019-04-10T15:14:43 < karlp> yeah, it's the sort of thing Id considered, just never tried out.
2019-04-10T15:15:00 < karlp> I think it's how both one wire and mbus searches work.
2019-04-10T15:16:26 < zyp> if you can keep the detection latency low, it should work out fairly well
2019-04-10T15:17:06 < karlp> yeah, I was ok with just scanning whehn I could do it 30 seconds.  was fast enough
2019-04-10T15:17:32 < karlp> default modbus timeouts are like 500ms, but if you're only looking for devices that you know will respond a certain way, we just cut the timeout down nice and tight.
2019-04-10T15:17:47 < zyp> let's say a slave will detect activity within a microsecond, that gives you a million timeslots per second
2019-04-10T15:18:16 < karlp> also meant I didn't need to do any detection of activity, like having to listen to my own replies 
2019-04-10T15:18:24 < zyp> true
2019-04-10T15:18:25 < karlp> and plays well with other 3rd party modbus devices.
2019-04-10T15:19:30 < mitrax> hmm no my mistake timeout is 200ms, the whole discovery time is 2000ms cause i retry 10 times, but it should keep going as long as there are slave replies
2019-04-10T15:28:46 < mitrax> then when a slave is found i assign a local one byte address to it, but unbound node can be addressed by a 96bits unique id (which the slave provides when responding to discovery packets), for that particular application the master saves the guid of registered nodes so it can bind them to a local address right away on restart or if a slave connection is lost (e.g if has been powered off), so 
2019-04-10T15:28:46 < mitrax> if the slave doesn't answer it tries to rebind them
2019-04-10T15:30:03 < karlp> didyou make this stack a nice open standard/source that others could be compliant with? :)
2019-04-10T15:30:29 < mitrax> of course *cough*
2019-04-10T15:31:29  * mitrax ducks
2019-04-10T15:36:50 < BrainDamage> let me present you an incredibly cursed idea: https://arxiv.org/abs/1811.10948
2019-04-10T15:42:18 <@englishman> beautiful
2019-04-10T15:53:59 < zyp> haha
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2019-04-10T16:07:21 <@englishman> chirimoya is the best fruit ive ever tasted
2019-04-10T16:38:17 < aandrew> what's a chirimoyaa
2019-04-10T16:42:32 < mitrax> anndrew: it's just like a banana
2019-04-10T16:42:38 < mitrax> aandrew: except for the shape, texture and taste of course
2019-04-10T16:42:48 < aandrew> mitrax: LOL
2019-04-10T16:47:36 < mitrax> first time i hear about chirimoyaa too :) i'll have to try, but it's probably the kind of fruit that tastes nothing like the real thing when it's imported
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2019-04-10T17:23:32 < syn0> j ##chat
2019-04-10T17:23:45  * syn0 oops
2019-04-10T17:23:57 < mawk> :O
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2019-04-10T18:01:17 < zyp> time to play around with the nrf radio a bit
2019-04-10T18:01:47 < zyp> should I do tx or rx first?
2019-04-10T18:01:58 < zyp> should be plenty of traffic in the air already to pick up
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2019-04-10T18:04:40 < bonzibuddy> hey folks - regarding yesterday's issue (hardfault when system clock exceeds 56 MHZ on stm32f401re), adjusting the flash wait parameter did not resolve the issue :(
2019-04-10T18:05:28 < bonzibuddy> i found that my original config in stm32cube did not have the voltage specified, when I set it to my target voltage it then populated the correct flash wait state per the datasheet
2019-04-10T18:05:41 < bonzibuddy> but despite this it still fails out
2019-04-10T18:06:28 < zyp> but 56 works fine?
2019-04-10T18:06:41 < Thorn> my lpc startup code wasn't properly initializing .data. the symbol defined in the linker script at the end of .text was wrong for some reason. I changed it to LOADADDR(.data) and it fixed the problem. why didn't _etext = . at the end of .text work?
2019-04-10T18:06:51 < bonzibuddy> zyp - yes, ive had it running for an hour at a time on 56
2019-04-10T18:07:00 < Thorn> seems like that is what stm32cube linker scripts use and it works there
2019-04-10T18:07:17 < zyp> Thorn, IIRC it depends on the order of sections and stuff
2019-04-10T18:07:28 < zyp> I think I ran into something similar once
2019-04-10T18:07:36 < zyp> LOADADDR is the cleaner solution anyway
2019-04-10T18:07:39 < Thorn> .data is right after .text which is the first section in the script
2019-04-10T18:08:06 < zyp> alignment, maybe?
2019-04-10T18:08:12 < Thorn> btw ld docs seems to say all these symbols defined in sections are relative to the start of the section
2019-04-10T18:08:31 < Thorn> but in my case relative should have been == absolute
2019-04-10T18:09:13 < zyp> I mean, end of .text doesn't have to match start of .data if .data has a stricter alignment requirement
2019-04-10T18:09:37 < zyp> .text might end at 0x1234 while .data starts at 0x1240
2019-04-10T18:10:35 < Thorn> I don't think it was off by just a few bytes, the data that was being copied into ram was completely wrong, probably a piece of .text
2019-04-10T18:11:11 < zyp> bonzibuddy, how soon does it fail when you increase the speed?
2019-04-10T18:11:36 < Thorn> I should check out an old revision and look at disassembly to be more accurate
2019-04-10T18:13:02 < zyp> Thorn, this is what I do: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/ld_scripts/arm_flash_ram.ld
2019-04-10T18:14:10 < Thorn> so you don't use LOADADDR but define the symbol outside of a section
2019-04-10T18:14:13 < zyp> but it's kinda error prone, so if I wrote it today I'd go with LOADADDR()
2019-04-10T18:14:25 < Thorn> well that's what I ended up using
2019-04-10T18:15:31 < Thorn> I'm not sure if ld behavior changed in a recent arm-gcc version, I may investigate if I have nothing better to do
2019-04-10T18:15:47 < bonzibuddy> zyp: it faults immediately after setting the clock config away from default AFAICT
2019-04-10T18:16:01 < zyp> bonzibuddy, at what speed?
2019-04-10T18:16:07 < zyp> which speeds have you tried?
2019-04-10T18:16:34 < Thorn> btw there is another build of arm-gcc https://github.com/gnu-mcu-eclipse/arm-none-eabi-gcc/releases/
2019-04-10T18:16:56 < Thorn> latest official arm gcc has a bug in objdump and this one doesn't
2019-04-10T18:17:11 < bonzibuddy> zyp - i didnt try a whole lot with the new flash wait state - didnt get to it until very late. with the new flash wait ive only tried 84 MHz.   Without the adjusted flash wait, ive tried 56/64/72/84 MHz
2019-04-10T18:17:21 < bonzibuddy> using HSE clock @ 16MHz
2019-04-10T18:18:17 < zyp> are you managing all the PLL factors yourself, or do you have something that does it for you?
2019-04-10T18:18:33 < bonzibuddy> zyp - i'm letting stm32cube do all that for me
2019-04-10T18:18:58 < zyp> have you checked what sort of fault is causing the hardfault?
2019-04-10T18:19:31 < bonzibuddy> from the register it looked like a bus error - which seems consistent with the flash wait setting being wrong
2019-04-10T18:20:13 < bonzibuddy> but heres something funny, too - if i set the flash wait *higher* than recommended, it times out on the adjustment (whatever HAL_ function sets the flash wait reg)
2019-04-10T18:20:17 < zyp> not necessarily, I'd expect invalid instruction
2019-04-10T18:21:01 < zyp> have you turned on the FLASH register block?
2019-04-10T18:21:19 < zyp> I'm not familiar with the HAL and what it does
2019-04-10T18:21:26 < bonzibuddy> i'll give it more investigation tonight - admittedly i was very weary when trying this like 9 hours ago
2019-04-10T18:21:41 < zyp> but the FLASH register block needs to be on to change the WS setting
2019-04-10T18:21:51 < zyp> and if HAL doesn't do that automatically, the change might not take
2019-04-10T18:22:08 < bonzibuddy> zyp - i would expect that the stm32cube output would be doing that automatically, but have not verified
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2019-04-10T18:22:52 < bonzibuddy> at any rate im not doing that manually.  im just relying on the generated HAL_SystemClockConfig that performs the flash wait state fiddling as well
2019-04-10T18:22:55 < zyp> I don't use cube myself, so I don't know what to trust it to do and what not :)
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2019-04-10T18:23:48 < bonzibuddy> heh, fair enough
2019-04-10T18:24:19 < bonzibuddy> zyp: thanks for some more avenues to look down.  ultimately, i might just live at 56MHz, i think that will be fast enough for my application.   It just... .bugs me, you know?
2019-04-10T18:24:40 < zyp> I would never accept that :)
2019-04-10T18:24:51 < bonzibuddy> lol.  i feel you
2019-04-10T18:25:17 < bonzibuddy> in reality, this is just a toy design to test out seeedstudio's fusion PCBA service
2019-04-10T18:25:36 < bonzibuddy> i should stop being so stubborn and just write the damn app logic already
2019-04-10T18:26:25 < Thorn> I've used f401 and had no problem running it @ max freq, maybe I can find my init code
2019-04-10T18:26:48 < zyp> same
2019-04-10T18:26:53 < bonzibuddy> Thorn - nice, that would be great
2019-04-10T18:27:53 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/rcc/rcc.cpp#n94 <- rcc_init(16000000, 84000000) for a 16MHz crystal
2019-04-10T18:28:16 < zyp> sorry, I mean rcc_init(16, 84) :)
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2019-04-10T18:28:49 < Thorn> iirc my init was cube generated
2019-04-10T18:28:58 < Thorn> in that project
2019-04-10T18:30:57 < bonzibuddy> see thats the part that inflames the logic centres of my brain
2019-04-10T18:31:03 < bonzibuddy> im not doing any exotic config, the hardware is dead simple
2019-04-10T18:31:56 < zyp> are you sure you told cube you have a 16 MHz crystal, so it doesn't assume you've got 8 MHz?
2019-04-10T18:32:15 < bonzibuddy> so either im making a boneheaded mistake (likeliest), stm32cube is giving me junk output (less likely), or the vendor populated some knockoff stm32's that dont perform (really hope not)
2019-04-10T18:32:59 < bonzibuddy> zyp - i have it configured for 16MHz HSE crystal, at least as best i can tell!  maybe ill upload the report it generates when i get back home
2019-04-10T18:33:12 < zyp> I'd read back the RCC and FLASH registers in the debugger when it hardfaults and check they have sane values
2019-04-10T18:33:36 < Thorn> is the pcb design ok? can you test the frequency using MCO?
2019-04-10T18:34:50 < bonzibuddy> Thorn - lol, it could be junk, i designed it in a day.  but to the best of my understanding, the HSE clock is running fine, the MCU has all the recommended decoupling, the power budget is fine, so it should all be up to the PLL at that point
2019-04-10T18:35:24 < zyp> yeah, unlikely hardware issues would make it fail like that
2019-04-10T18:35:29 < bonzibuddy> Thorn - i have not tested the MCO (master clock output?) yet but i can def try that
2019-04-10T18:38:50 < bonzibuddy> one thing i noticed was that some of the #define's cube spat out for like, APB1 and 2 clock dive were 0 values.  seemed unintuitive, but i didnt have time to check against a datasheet 
2019-04-10T18:39:08 < bitmask> I'm a spy now, camera has arrived, time to catch people in the act
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2019-04-10T18:48:09 < bitmask> 4 more hours
2019-04-10T18:48:25 < Thorn> 6
2019-04-10T18:48:38 < bitmask> 6 fo' what
2019-04-10T18:48:55 < Thorn> the launch
2019-04-10T18:48:59 < bitmask> what launch
2019-04-10T18:49:20 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXMGu2d8c8g
2019-04-10T18:49:46 < bitmask> oh nice, is this the first heavy launch beside the tesla?
2019-04-10T18:49:49 < bitmask> or have they been using it
2019-04-10T18:50:17 < Thorn> first one
2019-04-10T18:50:23 < bitmask> nice
2019-04-10T18:50:39 < bitmask> I should be back by then
2019-04-10T18:51:58 < jpa-> rajkosto: yeah, i've seen those spi/i2c configurable ones too, but looks like A030VVN01 only supports spi
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2019-04-10T18:57:11 < rajkosto> supports 8bit RGB too
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2019-04-10T19:12:34 < bitmask> youtube: how to use an iron
2019-04-10T19:14:55 < zyp> okay, receiving shit with the nrf radio was easy as fuck
2019-04-10T19:15:09 < zyp> poke a few registers, get packet in ram buffer
2019-04-10T19:25:07 < kakimir> hmm lurencer is banned? so peaceful
2019-04-10T19:25:29 < kakimir> just realized when thinking about brexit
2019-04-10T19:26:02 < bitmask> what he get banned for this time, more stupid links?
2019-04-10T19:26:35 < kakimir> i don't frankly care
2019-04-10T19:28:23 < bitmask> heh
2019-04-10T19:31:22 < Thorn> lulrence nas a whole channel to himself (##stm32-offtopic)
2019-04-10T19:32:44 < Thorn> maybe there's not enough audience for him in there lol
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2019-04-10T19:53:45 < bitmask> wtf, denver colorado, 80F today and snow tomorrow
2019-04-10T19:59:18 < Steffanx> Oh its real Thorn 
2019-04-10T19:59:37 < jpa-> bitmask: did you have your interview today?
2019-04-10T19:59:40 < Thorn> you've been there iirc
2019-04-10T20:01:57  * banana eats mitrax
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2019-04-10T20:04:04 < kakimir> https://imgur.com/gallery/bxcBlrB how vice writes it's articles
2019-04-10T20:07:58 < Steffanx> Are you ready bitmask ?
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2019-04-10T20:24:44 < bitmask> its in 2 hours
2019-04-10T20:24:53 < bitmask> just showered, gonna iron my clothes then im ready
2019-04-10T20:26:23 < Cracki> mitrax, so... enumerating the bus, eh? I don't see why that requires exponential backoff. a discovery broadcast should ask for "IDs >= x", and nodes below that don't respond. physically the lowest ID wins, and if you aren't the lowest id, you can tell.
2019-04-10T20:26:29 < Cracki> this should be done in a split second
2019-04-10T20:36:47 < mitrax> cracki: no, the nodes don't have a pre-assigned id, except for a unique ID (similar to a mac address) that's too large to use the scheme you're describing
2019-04-10T20:37:04 < Cracki> hash it, use temporarily
2019-04-10T20:37:37 < Cracki> or give them all same id, and disambiguate in data
2019-04-10T20:37:46 < mitrax> cracki: you still want to avoid collision
2019-04-10T20:37:50 < Cracki> that dominant/recessive thing should work there too
2019-04-10T20:37:54 < Cracki> let them collide
2019-04-10T20:37:59 < Cracki> they'll know if they won or lost
2019-04-10T20:38:44 < mitrax> cracki: this is a multipoint RS485 bus, if two nodes answer at the same time the data can't be read
2019-04-10T20:39:15 < Cracki> but the nodes notice and each knows if it won or lost, right?
2019-04-10T20:39:44 < Cracki> I'm not very familiar with rs485, but I have dealt with can bus before
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2019-04-10T20:41:01 < mitrax> one node can tell if the bus is busy (i.e if a frame is being transmitted either by the master or another slave node), but you still need a random delay so every node doesn't start sending at the same time after the broadcast packet
2019-04-10T20:41:31 < Cracki> I think I'm not being clear
2019-04-10T20:42:05 < Cracki> so let me ask you this: do you agree that CAN bus has dominant/recessive symbols? is it the same with rs485?
2019-04-10T20:42:27 < mitrax> i'm not familiar with CAN
2019-04-10T20:42:38 < Cracki> why did I read "can bus" earlier
2019-04-10T20:43:25 < ub|k> any clue why i may be getting only one channel on my DAC, even if it seems properly configured?
2019-04-10T20:43:37 < Cracki> define "get"
2019-04-10T20:43:49 < ub|k> it's I2S
2019-04-10T20:43:55 < ub|k> i can only hear one channel
2019-04-10T20:44:08 < ub|k> both channels work, cause the example code works
2019-04-10T20:44:15 < ub|k> I dumped the registers, it seems well configured
2019-04-10T20:44:24 < ub|k> i can only assume it's my I2S code
2019-04-10T20:44:24 < PaulFertser> Cracki: with RS485 one should try to avoid collission, I think it's out of spec to transmit at the same time. And normally devices do not monitor if the transmission is going properly, so no, no dominant/recessive symbols.
2019-04-10T20:44:27 < Cracki> check that you're actually sending data, not zeroes. check data sheet for output enables or whatever. check that the soldering is ok
2019-04-10T20:44:32 < PaulFertser> Cracki: in this regard CAN is highly superior.
2019-04-10T20:44:46 < Cracki> PaulFertser, sounds like 485 is a master-slave protocol, not multi-master
2019-04-10T20:45:05 < ub|k> Cracki: it's a dev board. plus, example code works
2019-04-10T20:45:18 < Cracki> show example code
2019-04-10T20:45:22 < Cracki> show your code
2019-04-10T20:45:24 < Cracki> diff it :>
2019-04-10T20:45:40 < ub|k> Cracki: plot twist - it's rust
2019-04-10T20:45:46 < PaulFertser> Cracki: it's not multi-master afaict, yes.
2019-04-10T20:45:49 < Cracki> get a wire brush
2019-04-10T20:46:04 < Cracki> even in a single-master situation, enumerating should be cheap... just do a binary search!
2019-04-10T20:46:09 < ub|k> haha
2019-04-10T20:46:14 < Cracki> ask who has id >= 0x80....
2019-04-10T20:46:24 < Cracki> as long as you get collisions, halve the interval
2019-04-10T20:46:28 < Cracki> :>
2019-04-10T20:48:47 < Thorn> afaik there's no way to reliably detect collisions on a rs-485 bus
2019-04-10T20:49:00 < Cracki> worst case would be they share a long prefix, then you'd have to step through that, so... almost 96 bits? I think you can send that many packets and detect that many collisions quickly
2019-04-10T20:49:06 < Cracki> heh awesome
2019-04-10T20:49:16 < PaulFertser> Cracki: I think most popular master-multi slave arrangement used via RS-485 is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modbus . TFW a protocol that was defined before you were born really sucks
2019-04-10T20:50:08 < Cracki> boss had me look into modbus a few months ago... tldr: there's a module for python :>
2019-04-10T20:50:24 < Cracki> I love their terminology (fucking coils!). it's ripe for a reinterpretation.
2019-04-10T20:50:47 < ub|k> the logic analyzer shows both channels being sent
2019-04-10T20:51:00 < ub|k> with what seems to be the right content
2019-04-10T20:51:16 < jpa-> modbus only has 256 addresses though, so fast enough to just enumerate all
2019-04-10T20:51:32 < Cracki> uh... this tree discovery could be done in the reverse I think... have to think about it
2019-04-10T20:51:54 < jpa-> Cracki: sounds like you are reinventing the way how maxim 1-wire enumerates the 64-bit addresses
2019-04-10T20:52:09 < jpa-> (basic binary tree search with open drain outputs)
2019-04-10T20:52:27 < Cracki> that's easy because you can detect collisions, same as on can bus
2019-04-10T20:52:32 < jpa-> yeah
2019-04-10T20:52:36 < Cracki> if you can't, bad luck
2019-04-10T20:53:01 < Cracki> which is why I'm thinking of other ways that would use "response/no response" as information
2019-04-10T20:53:29 < Cracki> where response and collision are the same information
2019-04-10T20:54:14 < Cracki> I think detection of collisions merely saves you from walking _one_ level down the tree, so hardly any savings
2019-04-10T20:54:23 < Cracki> (one more)
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2019-04-10T20:54:54 < jpa-> if you are inventing custom stuff, you can always have the RS485 slaves respond by either driving their transmit enable or not driving it, and read the input gpio state on master (assuming you have the usual bias resistors to bring the bus to a defined state when no-one is driving it)
2019-04-10T20:55:07 < Cracki> if I were to invent custom stuff, I'd not use 485
2019-04-10T20:55:18 < Cracki> not for multi-master or randomly identified slaves
2019-04-10T20:55:26 < Steffanx> goodluck bitmask :)
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2019-04-10T20:56:17 < Cracki> I see that 485 uses bias resistors, so I don't see why it wouldn't act like "differential" open drain
2019-04-10T20:56:46 < Cracki> but then we're back to how 1wire, i2c, can bus... can handle collisions
2019-04-10T20:57:00 < jpa-> if the master ignores all non-valid RS485 frames (i.e. stop bits violated), then collisions may cause nothing to show up on master
2019-04-10T20:57:23 < jpa-> if you can read the raw gpio state, it'll work fine as differential open drain
2019-04-10T20:57:34 < Cracki> yeh
2019-04-10T20:57:36 < bitmask> ty
2019-04-10T20:58:05 < jpa-> bitmask: so where is the youtube link? you are livestreaming it, right?
2019-04-10T20:58:07 < Cracki> if that diagram on wikipedia is any indication, it should even be possible to distinguish idle bus from driven bus (either symbol)
2019-04-10T20:58:24 < jpa-> Cracki: not with typical RS485 receivers
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2019-04-10T21:10:36 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHt3lilq9OQ
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2019-04-10T21:51:07 < invzim> pros..  how tf do you assign net 'GND' to a ground plane in altium?
2019-04-10T22:07:28 < aandrew> invzim: you double click on the plane and assign it to a net
2019-04-10T22:15:29 < invzim> double click where?
2019-04-10T22:15:40 < invzim> I can set a name for it no problem, but can't find a place to set the net
2019-04-10T22:15:59 < invzim> it's not a pour, but a solid plane
2019-04-10T22:21:57 < rajkosto> the "Net" property
2019-04-10T22:22:07 < rajkosto> its a combo box from which you must choose
2019-04-10T22:22:49 < rajkosto> also arent inner layers in Altium negative ?
2019-04-10T22:31:03 < invzim> yes they are negative
2019-04-10T22:31:13 < invzim> but no idea how to get to the net property :)
2019-04-10T22:33:25 < invzim> ah, mother F, plane is of type signal not plane
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2019-04-10T22:34:50 < invzim> all good :)
2019-04-10T22:48:23 < karlp> you can often use the rs485 transceivers with rx always enabled, and compare whhat you receive with what you sent to try and detect collisions, but if you're "clsoer" on long lines, you might still see your own data there.
2019-04-10T22:48:28 < karlp> and modbus isn't multimaster either.
2019-04-10T22:49:05 < karlp> You can use application stuff on top of modbus to "pass the master" if you want, but it's very much single master, multiple slaves
2019-04-10T22:52:04 < karlp> (i've only read of doing that rx always enabled thing, never actually seen it done)
2019-04-10T22:58:00 < qyx> but a collision in RS485 means muuuch current
2019-04-10T23:00:33 < Thorn> in an rs-485 bus, a collision will result in intermediate voltage levels, which can be interpreted differently by different drivers
2019-04-10T23:00:38 < invzim> hm, doing usb host on stm32f722 - looks like these are 'esd safe' to begin with and no external tvs stuff needed?
2019-04-10T23:00:56 < Thorn> no well-defined collision behavior unlike CAN or I2C or 1-wire
2019-04-10T23:05:15 < zyp> invzim, says who?
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2019-04-10T23:11:07 < Cracki> SPAAACE in ~2 hours, today with two boosters and hopefully synchronous landing https://www.spacex.com/webcast. 
2019-04-10T23:13:44 < ub|k> ok, this stuff is getting bonkers. if i send 0x0000 0xffff 0x0000 0xfffff... and so on 10 times, and then 10 times 0x0000
2019-04-10T23:13:53 < ub|k> i can hear stereo
2019-04-10T23:14:14 < ub|k> if I send 0xffff ten times and then 0x0000 ten other times, I hear mono
2019-04-10T23:14:19 < ub|k> (well, only one channel)
2019-04-10T23:14:33 < ub|k> 10 times on and of is just to get an audible tone
2019-04-10T23:14:56 < ub|k> what should be a 1000 Hz square wave
2019-04-10T23:15:11 < ub|k> (Fs is 10 KHz)
2019-04-10T23:15:42 < ub|k> it should be the other way round. i should get one channel muted if i consistently send every other byte at zero
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2019-04-10T23:17:01 < Thorn> invzim: I use USBLC6-2SC6
2019-04-10T23:18:25 < invzim> yeah, I actually had that in the schematics but figured I could nuke it
2019-04-10T23:18:35 < ub|k> maybe i'm misunderstanding how the codec works
2019-04-10T23:19:34 < invzim> Thorn: https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stm32f722ic.pdf <- section 6.3.18
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2019-04-10T23:26:10 < Thorn> I remember reading somewhere that a cable discharge is much worse than a ESD pulse simulated by a 2KV HBM. not sure what cable length was being assumed
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2019-04-10T23:38:36 < kakimir> what to think when fet has machine model 2000V
2019-04-10T23:38:51 < kakimir> and HBM of 50V
2019-04-10T23:39:14 < kakimir> how and why such a difference?
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2019-04-10T23:40:49 < kakimir> typo?
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2019-04-10T23:45:19 < bitmask> wut wut in the butt
2019-04-10T23:45:26 < Steffanx> welcome back bitmask
2019-04-10T23:45:39 < bitmask> got myself a second interview
2019-04-10T23:45:47 < Steffanx> Always good :)
2019-04-10T23:45:52 < bitmask> :)
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--- Day changed Thu Apr 11 2019
2019-04-11T00:00:53 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1116057892140998656
2019-04-11T00:02:20 < jadew`> Elon wants to put a tesla in a black hole?
2019-04-11T00:03:01 < jadew`> by 2030?
2019-04-11T00:03:22 <@englishman> in how much time is that?
2019-04-11T00:03:39 <@englishman> it says taking off at 8pm but timestamp is 8:18pm
2019-04-11T00:03:43 < Thorn> 2 hours 57 minutes
2019-04-11T00:03:57 < bitmask> delayed?
2019-04-11T00:04:06 <@englishman> ah well, won't see it, good luck little rocket
2019-04-11T00:04:09 < Thorn> yes
2019-04-11T00:05:13 < bitmask> interviews are exhausting, I want to take a nap but I suck at napping
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2019-04-11T00:09:38 < jadew`> get a beer, chill
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2019-04-11T00:25:53 < ub|k> can someone help me understand https://www.mouser.com/ds/2/76/CS43L22_F2-1142121.pdf, section 4.7?
2019-04-11T00:26:26 < ub|k> I was expecting to be able to send 16 + 16 bits on I2S
2019-04-11T00:26:43 < ub|k> but, from I see, I actually have to send 32 + 32, justified
2019-04-11T00:26:53 < ub|k> (i wasn't able to make it work, otherwise)
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2019-04-11T00:30:43 < Steffanx> Welcome jly. Tell us about your stm32 project
2019-04-11T00:31:15 < jly> only have a pic32 project at this moment
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2019-04-11T00:31:48 < Steffanx> I feel sorry for you
2019-04-11T00:31:59 < jly> me too
2019-04-11T00:32:25 < jly> i still get paid 
2019-04-11T00:32:32 < jly> so it's not so bad
2019-04-11T00:32:47 < Steffanx> You do C?
2019-04-11T00:32:56 < jly> nah it's in P
2019-04-11T00:33:18 < jly> a proprietary australian dialect 
2019-04-11T00:33:44 <@englishman> the P stands for Piss?
2019-04-11T00:33:46 < Steffanx> Hm
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2019-04-11T00:33:52 < jly> yeah englishman you got it in 1 shot
2019-04-11T00:34:09 < jly> however I do the altium 
2019-04-11T00:34:54 < Steffanx> You got your loicense mate?
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2019-04-11T00:36:04 < jly> yeah muscles
2019-04-11T00:37:03 < jly> all loicence
2019-04-11T00:37:16 < jly> we need blaxter to have a talk about the loicence
2019-04-11T00:37:36 < Steffanx> Try the offtopic ##stm32 channel
2019-04-11T00:38:04 < jly> lol excellent work, banned 5 days ago
2019-04-11T00:38:12 < zyp> I bought a pickaxe today
2019-04-11T00:38:17 < jly> what
2019-04-11T00:38:20 < zyp> since we're offtopic anyway
2019-04-11T00:38:21 < jly> a picaxe?
2019-04-11T00:38:27 < zyp> no, a pickaxe
2019-04-11T00:38:31 < jly> lol
2019-04-11T00:39:26 < mawk> you're starting a career as serial killer
2019-04-11T00:39:34 < Steffanx> Will you kill jly now zyp? I heard you were going to oistralia
2019-04-11T00:40:03 < zyp> haha, first thing my wife asked when I picked it up was «are you gonna use that to kill me?»
2019-04-11T00:40:19 < jly> when everything else fails
2019-04-11T00:40:34 < jly> https://www.digikey.com.au/product-detail/en/analog-devices-inc/ADZS-21489-EZLITE/ADZS-21489-EZLITE-ND/2270361
2019-04-11T00:40:40 < jly> you need one of these steffan
2019-04-11T00:40:57 < mawk> rs sent me an order of 8 boards in 3 different packages
2019-04-11T00:41:08 < mawk> the planet is happy
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2019-04-11T00:41:32 < jly> rs sent me a separate package for 1 resistor 
2019-04-11T00:41:39 < zyp> typical rs
2019-04-11T00:41:46 < jly> it's a beautiful thing
2019-04-11T00:41:57 < zyp> coworker ordered some shit from rs and five boxes showed up
2019-04-11T00:42:07 < jly> i can only assume they own the mail company
2019-04-11T00:42:23 < Steffanx> arrow does that too
2019-04-11T00:42:30 < jly> once I got some limit switches I didn't order, value $50-$100
2019-04-11T00:42:34 < Steffanx> Lets in how many packages my 18 items will come
2019-04-11T00:42:35 < jly> RS mate
2019-04-11T00:42:36 < zyp> Steffanx, also farnell
2019-04-11T00:42:51 < Steffanx> at least 2, since 1 part is shipped from HK
2019-04-11T00:43:38 < Steffanx> no ty jly. i have headphones already
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2019-04-11T00:45:30 < jly> sharc mate
2019-04-11T00:45:40 < Steffanx> sharcnado?
2019-04-11T00:45:52 < jly> yes you could make that
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2019-04-11T01:57:30 < bitmask> ugh, delayed another 2 hours
2019-04-11T01:57:43 < bitmask> or 3.5 rather
2019-04-11T02:00:59 < specing> bitmask: what was?
2019-04-11T02:02:15 < bitrot> spec lunch
2019-04-11T02:04:06 < specing> ah, spacex
2019-04-11T02:04:25 < specing> when will russians do reusable rockets...
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2019-04-11T02:05:12 < specing> they made one working rocket and have been milking it for the past 50 years, lol
2019-04-11T02:07:45 < bitrot> why fix what aint broke
2019-04-11T02:08:09 < specing> it aint broke, but its much more expensive to keep building rockets than to keep refilling existing one
2019-04-11T02:08:17 < specing> and THEY are broke, lol
2019-04-11T02:11:18 < specing> how come noone else thought to reuse rockets?
2019-04-11T02:11:19 < bitrot> spacex isnt saving that much and it took them so many tries to get anything salvageable
2019-04-11T02:11:30 < bitrot> the thing that returns is pretty fucked
2019-04-11T02:11:37 < specing> really?
2019-04-11T02:12:39 < specing> I thought they were close to throwing all other launch providers off the market
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2019-04-11T03:56:39 < bitmask> I feel goood, na na na na na na na
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2019-04-11T08:51:03 < qyx> savo je gud
2019-04-11T08:51:08 < qyx> hop
2019-04-11T09:23:38 < Thorn> qyx: https://github.com/Lora-net/LoRaMac-node/blob/develop/src/radio/sx1276/sx1276.c#L1162
2019-04-11T09:23:55 < Thorn> no rssi correction in fsk mode
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2019-04-11T09:56:57 < Steffanx> So zyp. 18 items, 7 packages and counting :)
2019-04-11T10:01:47 < zyp> haha
2019-04-11T10:01:50 < zyp> nice
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2019-04-11T12:50:09 < kakimir>  can I do this some_variable = return_struct().some_variable_in_struct;
2019-04-11T12:50:21 < kakimir> I mean it gives no error
2019-04-11T12:50:30 < kakimir> how convinient
2019-04-11T13:07:42 < Steffanx> Yes you can. You pass it around by value. Or the compiler will make sure it looks like that
2019-04-11T13:08:07 < Steffanx> Assuming you just return some bare struct
2019-04-11T13:08:10 < jpa-> add & if you want it to behave funnily
2019-04-11T13:10:22 < Steffanx> You like that dont you jpa-?
2019-04-11T13:11:20 < jpa-> yeah
2019-04-11T13:11:26 < jpa-> keeps the boredom awa
2019-04-11T13:21:00 < kakimir> &?
2019-04-11T13:21:24 < kakimir> you mean perform some operation for it directly?
2019-04-11T13:22:06 < kakimir> and it goes crazy?
2019-04-11T13:24:23 < jpa-> int *foo = &return_struct().variable;  and you have a stale pointer
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2019-04-11T14:12:30 < superbia> howdy Steffann 
2019-04-11T14:29:41 < Steffanx> Welcome
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2019-04-11T15:12:08 < Thorn> some arduino grade code https://github.com/Lora-net/LoRaMac-node/blob/develop/src/radio/sx1276/sx1276.c#L1448
2019-04-11T15:12:23 < Thorn> many places like that
2019-04-11T15:14:09 < zyp> very nice
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2019-04-11T15:17:49 < jadew`> I don't get it
2019-04-11T15:18:15  * karlp either
2019-04-11T15:18:22 < zyp> I wasn't sure either, but I think it's the x == false vs just !x
2019-04-11T15:18:43 < jadew`> thought that may be it, but I don't mind it at all
2019-04-11T15:18:53 < jadew`> if the programmer felt the need to be more verbose, that's fine
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2019-04-11T15:19:46 < Thorn> instead of if (mode == continuous) { a } else { b } they do if (mode != continuous) { b } else { a }
2019-04-11T15:20:09 < rajkosto> i like doing == null and == false
2019-04-11T15:20:23 < jadew`> Thorn, maybe that's the more common flow of things
2019-04-11T15:20:49 < Thorn> so after a condition with 'continuous' in it they put code for packet mode. very readable
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2019-04-11T15:36:07 < Cracki> for whoever cares: cubeshit still generates broken i2c setup code for F1... it requires __HAL_RCC_I2C1_CLK_ENABLE before gpiob_clk_enable
2019-04-11T15:36:51 < Cracki> thosn, "Many such places!"
2019-04-11T15:36:58 < Cracki> *r
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2019-04-11T16:18:50 < aandrew> Thorn: who cares if they look for the positive vs negative lgoic
2019-04-11T16:19:12 < aandrew> I also do == NULL and == false, all depends on the context
2019-04-11T16:19:53 < aandrew> for stdio it's usually if ((fp = fopen(...))) { ... good stuff } else { error stuff }
2019-04-11T16:20:02 < aandrew> all depends on context
2019-04-11T16:20:36 < aandrew> because I also do a lot of if ((fp = fopen(...)) == NULL) { return -1; }
2019-04-11T16:20:42 < aandrew> and then the rest of the function does not get indented to fuck
2019-04-11T16:22:59 < karlp> and everyone does it differently, and it makes it wonderful to check whether things are being handled or not.
2019-04-11T16:23:19 < karlp> is the "true" C return value the _error_ case or the _good_ case? who knows! read the api docs every fucking time.
2019-04-11T16:23:32 < aandrew> yes
2019-04-11T16:23:59 < aandrew> generally I return 0 or positive on success (depending on what the function is supposed to do) and negative on failure
2019-04-11T16:24:00 < zyp> better use C++ exceptions instead :p
2019-04-11T16:24:10 < aandrew> 99% of the time it's 0 for success
2019-04-11T16:24:40 < aandrew> but if it's a routine testing a boolean then 1 for true 0 for false and the function is almost always named is_xxx()
2019-04-11T16:24:51 < karlp> aandrew:yeah, often, I don't know if I'd go 99%
2019-04-11T16:25:05 < karlp> maybe 99% with the stdlib stuff, but it's fucking wasteland out there for anything else.
2019-04-11T16:25:22 < aandrew> yeah you need to know the API for sure; I'm just talking about my own code
2019-04-11T16:25:34 < Thorn> it's not about error handling, it's routing: if (lora) {.... } else /* fsk */ { if (packet) { ... } else /* continuous*/ { ... } }
2019-04-11T16:25:50 < aandrew> I *kind* of like the idea of return *always* being status and if you're trying to retrieve a value you pass a pointer to the destination
2019-04-11T16:25:54 < aandrew> but it's not a for sure thing
2019-04-11T16:26:00 < Thorn> what they did was if (lora) {.... } else { if (!continuous) { ... } else { ... } }
2019-04-11T16:26:37 < zyp> I've been tempted to try using exceptions on embedded
2019-04-11T16:27:30 < Cracki> good idea if compiler can tell you if you've handled all exceptions
2019-04-11T16:27:50 < zyp> no, java is awful, don't need that
2019-04-11T16:27:53 < Cracki> like in java, you can declare "throws something"
2019-04-11T16:27:55 < Cracki> hehe
2019-04-11T16:28:35 < Cracki> I would like to have "exception handling" that saves exeuction context, so I can fix the problem and continue
2019-04-11T16:29:16 < zyp> I mean, it's not like the compiler enforces error handling through return codes, so I don't see why it should have to for exceptions either
2019-04-11T16:31:05 < zyp> and in a lot of code you've got nothing useful to do if an operation fails, so you might as well just let it propagate up the call stack and let it be handled on a higher layer
2019-04-11T16:31:19 < Cracki> you don't?
2019-04-11T16:31:35 < Cracki> exceptions are a higher level concept, they're *supposed* to be different, give you more guarantees
2019-04-11T16:31:56 < Cracki> yes, bubbling up is the point.
2019-04-11T16:32:45 < Cracki> but it would be nice to also have the information _which_ exceptions can come out of some call. even generated documentation is often incomplete and only lists directly thrown ones
2019-04-11T16:33:30 < Cracki> there some python module for http requests... it takes low level exceptions, BUT wraps them in its own generic exception class
2019-04-11T16:34:09 < Cracki> you can't easily dispatch on type that way, you have to drill into the exception object... and they don't document what all that could be
2019-04-11T16:34:54 < Cracki> that's the point of javas "throws" declaration. it says you will only get those exceptions, everything else is handled/transformed inside
2019-04-11T16:35:27 < zyp> I know what the point is, I just don't think the added verbosity makes it worth it
2019-04-11T16:36:59 < zyp> you can have sane design that catches and rethrows exceptions without a compiler to enforce it
2019-04-11T16:42:31 < aandrew> throws table;
2019-04-11T16:42:33 < rajkosto> the java exception specifications is an asinine design choice
2019-04-11T16:42:55 < rajkosto> thanks for reminding me it exists
2019-04-11T16:46:00 < superbia> exceptions are stupid
2019-04-11T16:47:28 < karlp> problem with java excpetions is that lots of things that should have been unchecked exceptions in the core are checked.
2019-04-11T16:47:44 < karlp> youc an use unchecked exceptions yourself, but you have to subclass it all yourself, so no-one does.
2019-04-11T16:48:00 < karlp> makes a shitty soup.
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2019-04-11T17:01:49 < Steffanx> Does Nim do exceptions mr superbia ?
2019-04-11T17:01:59 < rajkosto> exceptions are better than the shit golang forces down your throat
2019-04-11T17:02:42 < superbia> no Steffanx 
2019-04-11T17:04:28 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-04-11T17:05:02 < rajkosto> exceptions get disabled on embedded anyway
2019-04-11T17:05:05 < Steffanx> Its does.
2019-04-11T17:05:12 < Steffanx> -s
2019-04-11T17:05:20 < Steffanx> You lied to me superbia 
2019-04-11T17:05:36 < superbia> they are not exactly java exceptions
2019-04-11T17:05:45 < superbia> so I can't exactly explain it to you
2019-04-11T17:06:01 < rajkosto> exceptions should only be used for exceptional situations so that the normal code flow reads nicely
2019-04-11T17:06:02 < superbia> plus, I don't code in nim anymore sadly..
2019-04-11T17:06:17 < Steffanx> What do you code in nowaydays?
2019-04-11T17:06:25 < Steffanx> Or no coding at all?
2019-04-11T17:06:28 < superbia> pop lang/langs
2019-04-11T17:06:51 < superbia> POPlang
2019-04-11T17:07:26 < Steffanx> What on earth is that?
2019-04-11T17:09:08 < Steffanx> Some finnish uni seems to mention it, but...
2019-04-11T17:09:32 < superbia> https://www.quora.com/Which-programming-languages-does-Google-use-internally
2019-04-11T17:11:52 < Steffanx> Typescript it is
2019-04-11T17:20:38 < Steffanx> Are you always so clear like this superbia? :)
2019-04-11T17:28:44 < superbia> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKKMtGhVdhc
2019-04-11T17:30:18 < kakimir> openocd: Error: Failed to read memory and, additionally, failed to find out where  
2019-04-11T17:33:45 < superbia> paste full error
2019-04-11T17:33:49 < superbia> don't half ass it
2019-04-11T17:34:02 < kakimir> no it's erradic
2019-04-11T17:34:19 < kakimir> just pasted error line that amused me
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2019-04-11T17:44:31 < kakimir> lab supply with noise mode would be grate
2019-04-11T17:44:58 < kakimir> normal mode just the flatline
2019-04-11T17:45:12 < kakimir> noise mode - rollercoaster output voltage
2019-04-11T17:53:16 < jadew`> kakimir, you get noise for free, from any supply
2019-04-11T18:05:26 < jadew`> finished reading the backlog 
2019-04-11T18:05:34 < jadew`> yeah, java exceptions are stupid
2019-04-11T18:06:46 < jadew`> it's like a constant reminder: "Here's an opportunity to write shit code. Take it or forward it?"
2019-04-11T18:07:37 < jadew`> c++ deprecated exceptions specifications in c++11 and I think they're completely dropped now
2019-04-11T18:08:18 < jadew`> aandrew, regarding the return value, I like how matlab/octave does this
2019-04-11T18:08:47 < jadew`> could be overriden behaviour in c++ or some better language tho, so you have either 1 value return, or multi-value return
2019-04-11T18:09:01 < jadew`> that would be nice
2019-04-11T18:10:04 < jadew`> could be provided via tuples I guess, not sure if anything like that is in the works, or if I'm thinking of a different language that does that
2019-04-11T18:10:38 < jadew`> in case you don't know, in matlab you could return [a, b, c]
2019-04-11T18:10:47 < jadew`> and if you do x = whatever(); you get a into x
2019-04-11T18:11:01 < jadew`> and if you want to access the rest of the values you could do [a, b, c] = whatever();
2019-04-11T18:11:26 < jadew`> that's a cool feature IMO, because it allows you to RETURN both the status and the interesting stuff
2019-04-11T18:12:07 < rajkosto> C++ has "tie" 
2019-04-11T18:12:11 < jadew`> and multi-value return isn't something that uncommon, so it would be really cool if this was standard functionality in most languages
2019-04-11T18:12:17 < rajkosto> that let you return multi-value
2019-04-11T18:12:25 < rajkosto> and bind to multiple vars
2019-04-11T18:12:28 < rajkosto> or discard
2019-04-11T18:12:44 < jadew`> ah ha!, I knew it had something
2019-04-11T18:12:51 < jadew`> never used it, but I've read about it
2019-04-11T18:12:56 < jadew`> (and forgot)
2019-04-11T18:13:15 < jadew`> but it's still not as easy as
2019-04-11T18:13:24 < jadew`> auto [x, y, z] = whatever();
2019-04-11T18:13:26 < jadew`> that would be ideal
2019-04-11T18:13:58 < jadew`> and again, I'm not sure if it's in the works or I'm thinking of other languages (might have been mentioned in a talk by someone)
2019-04-11T18:14:34 < rajkosto> its close enough
2019-04-11T18:14:43 < jadew`> it's a good start for sure
2019-04-11T18:14:45 < rajkosto> and c++17 would let you do auto tie like that
2019-04-11T18:15:12 < jadew`> gtg, ttyl
2019-04-11T18:15:24 < rajkosto> its called structured bindings
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2019-04-11T19:06:32 < karlp> jadew`:lua has multi return too. very nice.
2019-04-11T19:06:50 < karlp> "standard" pattern is result, or nil, errormsg/code
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2019-04-11T19:18:02 < bitmask> o/
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2019-04-11T19:50:13 < mitrax> gah i'm having a weird bug with usb initialization in host mode on F4 (ST shit library), never noticed it before, approx 1/5 of the time it fails (although the lib doesn't return any error), when that happens the OTG GINTMSK register bits stays to 0 although the lib explicitely unmask a lot of bits (i'm stepping through the code that changes the bits, but the register is unaffected), any clue 
2019-04-11T19:50:13 < mitrax> what other registers i should check first?
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2019-04-11T19:58:44 < karlp> insert a delay after the peripheral enable?
2019-04-11T20:00:23 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/97t7Xj_iBv0
2019-04-11T20:05:06 < mitrax> karlp: after enabling the OTG HS clock? there is one already
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2019-04-11T20:12:28  * karlp shrugs
2019-04-11T20:18:58 < rajkosto> you linked the video that kept getting recommended to everyone on youtube well done bitmask 
2019-04-11T20:19:21 < bitmask> I was supposed to know that?
2019-04-11T20:19:47 < bitmask> so don't click it, easy as that
2019-04-11T20:23:00 < kakimir> jadew`: I mean Noise - with capital N
2019-04-11T20:24:26 < rajkosto> how can i tel lwhat it is if i dont click it
2019-04-11T20:24:51 < bitmask> I don't really care what you do, stop being a dick
2019-04-11T20:26:45 < Cracki> thanks for the video, looks interesting. I never look at what youtube recommends me ;)
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2019-04-11T20:31:13 < mawk> is it sensible to modify the nucleo32 so that's the microusb goes to the core and not the stlink?
2019-04-11T20:31:31 < mawk> then the stlink would be useless but can't remove it anyway
2019-04-11T20:32:16 < karlp> that's something I'v enever liked about the nucleo designs. no user usb until you buy the big ones.
2019-04-11T20:32:32 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-11T20:32:54 < mawk> I've got a big one, but its user usb can't power the board anyway
2019-04-11T20:33:00 < mawk> unless you hack on it
2019-04-11T20:33:05 < invzim> damn, pcbs keep getting cheaper.  5 x 76mm*66mm for 29usd, 4 layer
2019-04-11T20:33:10 < jpa-> can't you just connect extra connector from the io pins?
2019-04-11T20:33:22 < mawk> yeah, that's what I do
2019-04-11T20:33:25 < mawk> but it's ugly
2019-04-11T20:33:43 < mawk> cheap usb cable cut off, soldered male headers and drown in hot glue
2019-04-11T20:34:05 < jpa-> if you are going to do soldering, might as well just add extra connector; scrape off enough ground plane to solder it on and use flywires for D+/D-
2019-04-11T20:34:50 < mawk> don't you need a hole through for that kind of connector ? so that repeated insertion doesn't hurt it
2019-04-11T20:35:12 < jpa-> depends on how clumsy inserter you are
2019-04-11T20:35:17 < mawk> lol
2019-04-11T20:35:19 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-11T20:35:31 < jpa-> many real products also have micro-usb without through-hole connectors, they do fail eventually but not *that* easily
2019-04-11T20:35:54 < jpa-> and you could always epoxy it if you want
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2019-04-11T20:47:22 < rajkosto> through hole for strength only
2019-04-11T20:47:41 < rajkosto> ive had pads rip off the pcb with smd-only microusb ports
2019-04-11T20:48:23 < Thorn> do TH µUSB connectors even exist
2019-04-11T20:48:27 < rajkosto> add vias to gnd plane on the edges if its smd-only so that doesnt happen
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2019-04-11T20:48:34 < rajkosto> absolutely exist, fully TH 
2019-04-11T20:48:42 < rajkosto> but most common is TH for shield only for strength
2019-04-11T20:53:48 < mawk> wow my android keyboard app has a two interactions shortcut for inserting my passwords into irc
2019-04-11T20:53:53 < mawk> genius
2019-04-11T20:54:17 < mawk> my passwords are a cat screen walk away from you
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2019-04-11T21:18:54 < Steffanx> You dont even have a cat mawk 
2019-04-11T21:19:12 < mawk> yes I do
2019-04-11T21:19:18 < mawk> she's all white with blue eyes
2019-04-11T21:19:39 < Steffanx> Why you dont post cat pics in stm32 pros telegram?
2019-04-11T21:24:32 < kakimir> has everybody leftfor TG already?
2019-04-11T21:25:03 < Steffanx> Nah
2019-04-11T21:25:43 < kakimir> me neather
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2019-04-11T21:48:19 < Cracki> invzim, those pcb conditions where?
2019-04-11T21:49:20 < Cracki> gief cat pics, feel free to use ##stm32-offtopic
2019-04-11T21:53:15 < Thorn> Israeli moon landing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6G6Dm2zq5s
2019-04-11T21:54:50 < Thorn> starting in ~10 min
2019-04-11T21:56:29 < Cracki> ch ch ch
2019-04-11T21:58:53 < kakimir> what is the fastest meanest cheap micro you know?
2019-04-11T21:59:06 < Cracki> >fast+cheap
2019-04-11T21:59:15 < kakimir> it's relative
2019-04-11T21:59:20 < Cracki> you want it exploding or is imaginary okay?
2019-04-11T21:59:21 < kakimir> about 1eur price
2019-04-11T21:59:24 < kakimir> maybe 2eur
2019-04-11T21:59:28 < kakimir> not more than 2
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2019-04-11T22:00:23 < jpa-> plenty of STM32F0
2019-04-11T22:00:29 < jpa-> 's to choose from in that price range
2019-04-11T22:00:34 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-11T22:00:46 < kakimir> but is it the fastest meanest thing in that range?
2019-04-11T22:00:57 < jpa-> fastest for what?
2019-04-11T22:01:20 < kakimir> MIPS, clockrates, practical performance, GPIO speed, peripheral speeds etc.
2019-04-11T22:01:41 < jpa-> way too many factors to give a single-dimensional answer
2019-04-11T22:02:02 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-11T22:02:14 < jpa-> even just from STM32's, you have L0 which has cortex-m0+; could be significantly faster for some specific use cases, but usually wouldn't matter much
2019-04-11T22:03:35 < kakimir> a lot of data from gpio
2019-04-11T22:03:52 < kakimir> and then it needs to be processed on the fly
2019-04-11T22:03:59 < Cracki> would a more specialized IC do the job?
2019-04-11T22:04:05 < kakimir> fpga maybe
2019-04-11T22:04:08 < kakimir> small one
2019-04-11T22:04:14 < Cracki> fpga for 2 bucks? maybe
2019-04-11T22:04:31 < Thorn> kakimir: F401
2019-04-11T22:04:32 < emeryth> kakimir: gd32 makes F030 clones but with cortex m4 inside
2019-04-11T22:04:33 < Cracki> but clock on fpga can't compete with "asic"
2019-04-11T22:04:46 < jpa-> or even cpld or a greenpak, if the processing is simple enough
2019-04-11T22:05:29 < Thorn> $1.85 qty 10 https://lcsc.com/product-detail/ST-Microelectronics_STMicroelectronics_STM32F401RCT6_STMicroelectronics-STM32F401RCT6_C74524.html
2019-04-11T22:09:21 < mawk> telegram is scary Steffanx 
2019-04-11T22:09:27 < Steffanx> it is
2019-04-11T22:10:19 < Steffanx> Are you scary too mawk?
2019-04-11T22:10:32 < zyp> Steffanx is the scariest
2019-04-11T22:10:43 < Steffanx> yes
2019-04-11T22:12:38 < mawk> no I'm very gentle
2019-04-11T22:17:08 < Steffanx> thats how ##stm32 likes it
2019-04-11T22:17:10 < Cracki> scary and gentle aren't mutex
2019-04-11T22:18:20 < con3> eh I've got a weird issue, whenever I run fatfs operations from interrupts like close_result = f_close(&SDFile); I get FR_INVALID_OBJECT , running the same operations without interrupts seems to work fine :/
2019-04-11T22:18:32 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-11T22:18:42 < mawk> which nvic priority for interrupts ?
2019-04-11T22:18:53 < mawk> lower priority than systick or TIM timebase ?
2019-04-11T22:19:03 < mawk> some numerically higher
2019-04-11T22:19:31 < con3> 0,1
2019-04-11T22:19:49 < con3> higher than systick, lower than the timers
2019-04-11T22:20:08 < mawk> systick needs to have higher priority, no ?
2019-04-11T22:20:18 < mawk> if you have time sensitive operations
2019-04-11T22:20:29 < mawk> but for fatfs it doesn't seem that critical after all
2019-04-11T22:20:31 < con3> sorry wrong way around systick has the highest priority at 0,0
2019-04-11T22:20:36 < mawk> good
2019-04-11T22:22:28 < Steffanx> Are you closing stuff inside an interrupt?
2019-04-11T22:22:52 < Steffanx> handler
2019-04-11T22:23:01 < con3> Steffanx: yes, I'm closing the file inside the interrupt handler
2019-04-11T22:23:54  * con3 starts to realize he isn't cut out for this embedded stuff
2019-04-11T22:24:27 < Steffanx> dont think that. one can learn
2019-04-11T22:25:38 < Steffanx> but does your fatfs implementation allow you to do that. interrupt safe et all?
2019-04-11T22:26:03 < mawk> just think back to when you didn't know all the stuff you know today con3 
2019-04-11T22:26:07 < Thorn> *crash*
2019-04-11T22:26:12 < Mangy_Dog> it crashed
2019-04-11T22:26:55 < con3> Steffanx: I didn't think that it would be an issue using the file handle in an interrupt. I had some code a while back that I where I was using the file handle in the interrupt and it seemed to work perfectly
2019-04-11T22:27:48 < con3> http://elm-chan.org/fsw/ff/doc/rc.html
2019-04-11T22:28:07 < con3> looking at this it provides reasons that would cause this error and I can't see any of them being valid either
2019-04-11T22:28:34 < con3> mawk: just starting to feel like I'm progressing way to slowly, this embedded system stuff is hard. very very hard
2019-04-11T22:29:08  * con3 digs through code
2019-04-11T22:30:08 < Steffanx> i love the amount of typos still in fatfs and documentation
2019-04-11T22:30:09 < Steffanx> "voulme "
2019-04-11T22:30:33 < Cracki> Thorn, the clapping sounds very enthusiastic :>
2019-04-11T22:30:55 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@2a01:e35:8b76:a0f0:419e:9362:d860:6273] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-04-11T22:31:00 < zyp> so the engine failed to start when it was supposed to brake?
2019-04-11T22:31:03 < con3> Steffanx: FATFS has been one of the stuff that caught me off guard with the complexity and general hell that it has given me
2019-04-11T22:32:37 < Thorn> zyp: I think they initially said something about an IMU
2019-04-11T22:32:44 < con3> Also I'm starting to grow an unusual amount of hate and anger towards cube
2019-04-11T22:33:03 < Thorn> and then it rebooted or something, so could be a software bug
2019-04-11T22:35:37 < Mangy_Dog> did it crash then? i had to go
2019-04-11T22:35:51 < Mangy_Dog> or was this reboot in the nick of time?
2019-04-11T22:35:53 < Cracki> looks ded
2019-04-11T22:35:59 < zyp> con3, have you tried just not using cube?
2019-04-11T22:36:12 < Cracki> i see altitude stuck at 149m and it was tilted badly
2019-04-11T22:36:33 < con3> zyp: using HAL on its own?
2019-04-11T22:36:37 < zyp> yeah, I saw the altitude counting down and vertical speed counting up
2019-04-11T22:36:42 < zyp> until telemetry died
2019-04-11T22:36:46 < Mangy_Dog> :(
2019-04-11T22:36:49 < Mangy_Dog> oh well
2019-04-11T22:36:50 < zyp> con3, not necessarily
2019-04-11T22:36:58 < zyp> you can ditch HAL as well
2019-04-11T22:37:04 < Cracki> maybe they overestimated their numbers
2019-04-11T22:37:48 < Mangy_Dog> wait i just loaded the video there all shaking hands and cheering
2019-04-11T22:37:51 < Mangy_Dog> did it land then?
2019-04-11T22:37:54 < Steffanx> no
2019-04-11T22:37:58 < con3> zyp: how...?
2019-04-11T22:37:59 < Steffanx> but they are happy anyway
2019-04-11T22:38:02 < zyp> well, it landed, just really hard :p
2019-04-11T22:38:03 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2019-04-11T22:38:03 < Cracki> so they got a piece of metal into orbit via spacex, same as hundreds of cubesats before
2019-04-11T22:38:40 < zyp> con3, use something else or write your own code to access the registers directly
2019-04-11T22:39:04 -!- rajkosto [~Rajko@cable-178-149-127-67.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2019-04-11T22:39:12 < zyp> not saying you should, just saying you can
2019-04-11T22:39:23 < zyp> and if you're fed up with HAL you should probably consider that
2019-04-11T22:39:23 < Steffanx> back in the time LL_* stuff inside the HAL was ##stm32's choice, but nowadays i no longer knows
2019-04-11T22:39:42 < zyp> back in the time? isn't the LL stuff fairly new?
2019-04-11T22:39:42 < Mangy_Dog> bbc reports its crashed
2019-04-11T22:39:52 < Cracki> it certainly did
2019-04-11T22:39:54 < Steffanx> back in the time was.. like a year ago zyp :P
2019-04-11T22:40:36 < con3> zyp: that's definetly an option
2019-04-11T22:49:24 < Thorn> Falcon Heavy T - 2 h 45 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXMGu2d8c8g
2019-04-11T22:58:58 < con3> anyone else here crap themselves when an error briefly pops up and then dissapears and you dont know why
2019-04-11T23:04:13 -!- jly [uid355225@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xernrajwgmqfqfzj] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-11T23:12:13 < Cracki> only if it makes an angry noise
2019-04-11T23:14:09 < con3> Ah ok no worries then
2019-04-11T23:14:15  * con3 stares at flame on pcb
2019-04-11T23:14:55 < aandrew> yo check it
2019-04-11T23:14:59 < aandrew>  98 347.827991 00:11:22:33:44:55 → ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff ARP 60 Who has 10.10.10.2? Tell 10.10.10.1
2019-04-11T23:15:02 < aandrew>  99 347.928074 00:11:22:33:44:55 → ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff ARP 60 Who has 10.10.10.2? Tell 10.10.10.1
2019-04-11T23:15:05 < aandrew> 100 348.027955 00:11:22:33:44:55 → ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff ARP 60 Who has 10.10.10.2? Tell 10.10.10.1
2019-04-11T23:15:08 < aandrew> 101 348.127986 00:11:22:33:44:55 → ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff ARP 60 Who has 10.10.10.2? Tell 10.10.10.1
2019-04-11T23:15:11 < aandrew> 102 348.227963 00:11:22:33:44:55 → ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff ARP 60 Who has 10.10.10.2? Tell 10.10.10.1
2019-04-11T23:15:14 < aandrew> ARP packets from my FPGA
2019-04-11T23:15:15 < aandrew> fucking too the better part of a week to figure out the clock was inverted
2019-04-11T23:15:51 < Steffanx> Haah
2019-04-11T23:23:06 < specing> aandrew: thats cool, but can it dance?
2019-04-11T23:27:38 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@bcde5391.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2019-04-11T23:33:20 < mitrax> zyp: have you dealt with OTG on F4? i'm having a weird problem
2019-04-11T23:33:58 < zyp> in host mode?
2019-04-11T23:34:00 < mitrax> yeah
2019-04-11T23:34:11 < zyp> not really, but go on
2019-04-11T23:34:36 < aandrew> specing: nope it can't dance
2019-04-11T23:35:10 < specing> aandrew: then its useless
2019-04-11T23:36:15 < mitrax> every once in a while, some of the register for the OTG device are unwritable, the ST library sets OTG_HS_GINTMSK to request some interrupts which works most of the time, but on restart rarely, that register stays to 0, i can't write to it using the debugger as well, the control and status register can be written though
2019-04-11T23:38:46 < zyp> sounds weird
2019-04-11T23:38:56 < mitrax> yeah ...
2019-04-11T23:42:16 < Thorn> so my gpio interrupt doesn't work
2019-04-11T23:42:37 < Thorn> debugger shows the cpu end up in the default handler
2019-04-11T23:43:03 < Thorn> I look at the vector table, the value for PININT0 is 000000C1 (default handler)
2019-04-11T23:43:18 < Thorn> wtf, I have extern "C" PININT0_IRQHandler() defined
2019-04-11T23:43:56 < Thorn> after some searching, I find #define PININT0_IRQHandler  PIN_INT0_IRQHandler in chip.h
2019-04-11T23:45:18 < Thorn> even though startup code refers to it as PININT0_IRQHandler
2019-04-11T23:46:07 < Thorn> who wrote this LPCOpen thing, Albert Fuckenstein?
2019-04-11T23:46:15 < Cracki> kek
2019-04-11T23:48:10 -!- rajkosto [~Rajko@cable-178-149-127-67.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined ##stm32
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--- Day changed Fri Apr 12 2019
2019-04-12T00:07:18 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:6ba6:b4b3:ad3d:87cb:959] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2019-04-12T00:10:25 < kakimir> can cortex core perform multiple instructions per cycle?
2019-04-12T00:10:51 -!- syn0 [hoofman@sdf-eu.org] has quit [Quit: Changing server]
2019-04-12T00:10:53 < kakimir> let's say thumb code
2019-04-12T00:13:04 -!- syn0 [hoofman@sdf-eu.org] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-12T00:13:41 < kakimir> LDR and MOV
2019-04-12T00:14:15 < kakimir> both sharing the same register
2019-04-12T00:17:34 < kakimir> let's say I would want to know exact number of cycles
2019-04-12T00:21:47 < Cracki> it's pipelined
2019-04-12T00:21:58 < Cracki> but it's not a DSP
2019-04-12T00:23:05 < Cracki> here's M0 http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0432c/CHDCICDF.html
2019-04-12T00:23:55 < specing> Do there exist Kicad footprints for discovery boards?
2019-04-12T00:23:56 < Cracki> the smarter ones have caches everywhere, and I see prefetch for the M3, so...
2019-04-12T00:24:25 < Cracki> the M0 doesn't mention pipeline, but M3 does
2019-04-12T00:26:21 < aandrew> where is laurenceb
2019-04-12T00:26:22 < aandrew> https://newsthump.com/2019/04/10/scientists-release-first-ever-image-of-brexit/
2019-04-12T00:30:03 < Steffanx> Try ##stm32-offtopic aandrew. Hes there
2019-04-12T00:37:56 < Steffanx> is ReadError_ still alive?
2019-04-12T00:42:24 -!- BrainDamage [~BrainDama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-12T00:45:47 < aandrew> oh I don't bother with that chan
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2019-04-12T00:47:25 -!- bitrot [~Rajko@cable-178-149-127-67.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-12T00:47:32 < con3> Any way that I can change the minimum heap size? Generally set it in cube
2019-04-12T00:49:52 < con3> think I found t
2019-04-12T00:49:54 < con3> it
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2019-04-12T00:50:52 -!- Rajko [~Rajko@cable-178-149-127-67.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-04-12T00:58:18 < jadew`> man... is that rocket still waiting
2019-04-12T00:59:03 < jadew`> in 36 minutes the feed starts?
2019-04-12T01:02:12 < Thorn> should start in 15 min
2019-04-12T01:02:37 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W4M3Qrrc4KiEppFB1Tz7McqyaV_-ggQZ/view?usp=sharing
2019-04-12T01:02:37 < jadew`> not sure I can stay awake that late
2019-04-12T01:02:47 < emeb_mac> which rocket?
2019-04-12T01:03:39 < jadew`> kakimir, what's that about?
2019-04-12T01:04:17 < kakimir> uart reception and handling one byte of data probs
2019-04-12T01:04:25 < kakimir> maybe idk
2019-04-12T01:04:28 < kakimir> uart something
2019-04-12T01:04:35 < jadew`> the SAM D's I played with had the best UART peripherals
2019-04-12T01:04:47 < jadew`> way way better than what you find on STM
2019-04-12T01:05:05 < kakimir> probs
2019-04-12T01:05:09 < mitrax> zyp: when that occurs the CSRST bit in OTG_FS_GRSTCTL (reset register) is stuck to 1, but that bit is supposed to self reset, what's weirder is if i disable/re-enable the device clock by messing with AHB1ENR, that bit is still stuck to 1, only a reset fixes it
2019-04-12T01:05:27 < jadew`> kakimir, and by better, I also mean speed wise
2019-04-12T01:06:01 < zyp> ah
2019-04-12T01:06:04 < jadew`> IIRC, the ones I tested could do 40 Mbps USART
2019-04-12T01:06:24 < jadew`> vs the F4, who I think could only do something like 10 or thereabout
2019-04-12T01:06:57 < kakimir> "But before I grab this part for a project, Microchip really needs to fix the extremely slow, bloated peripheral library, and update their code-gen tool to do proper error-checking of clock and peripheral configurations."
2019-04-12T01:07:38 < kakimir> this thing says that it's fast and efficient
2019-04-12T01:07:46 < kakimir> not only that
2019-04-12T01:07:56 < kakimir> but fastests and the most efficient in the whole test
2019-04-12T01:08:03 < kakimir> *the fastest
2019-04-12T01:08:28 < jadew`> and it's judging that by using automatically generated code to benchmark things?
2019-04-12T01:08:59 < kakimir> idk
2019-04-12T01:09:21 < mawk> cube is the most broken software in the game
2019-04-12T01:09:36 < jadew`> I never used the STM libraries
2019-04-12T01:10:06 < jadew`> they felt more difficult to understand than just reading the RM and understanding the register map
2019-04-12T01:10:09 < mawk> the ST HAL are somewhat okay, but cubemx is a horrible software
2019-04-12T01:10:12 < mawk> the codegen tool
2019-04-12T01:10:34 < mawk> broken makefile, crashes, hangs, deadlocks, terrible UI
2019-04-12T01:11:11 < jadew`> cube is cool for pin mapping
2019-04-12T01:11:44 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-12T01:13:48 < jadew`> man... I took a job I have a hard time working on
2019-04-12T01:14:09 < mawk> what is it ?
2019-04-12T01:14:34 < jadew`> it's been a couple of weeks and it's super hard to properly get started on it, it's like someone forcing you to eat shit
2019-04-12T01:14:39 < jadew`> that's how hard it is
2019-04-12T01:15:15 < specing> specing | Do there exist Kicad footprints for discovery boards? 
2019-04-12T01:15:25 < jadew`> mawk, they have some JS that isn't working on iphones
2019-04-12T01:15:54 < Cracki> spaaace
2019-04-12T01:16:02 < jadew`> it's starting
2019-04-12T01:16:08 < Cracki> it begins
2019-04-12T01:16:23 < Cracki> i wish I had subwoofers now
2019-04-12T01:17:10 < Cracki> weather looked good 2 hours ago
2019-04-12T01:17:42 < jadew`> I'll probably go to bed before it launches
2019-04-12T01:17:46 < Cracki> window opens in 17 minutes
2019-04-12T01:17:56 < jadew`> and I bet that if I do that, it blows up and I miss it
2019-04-12T01:18:08 < specing> Are the stm32 discoery kits generally pin compatible with eachother?
2019-04-12T01:18:19 < Cracki> you think you'll be unconscious in less than 20 mins?
2019-04-12T01:18:37 < jadew`> I should be, I have to wake up in 6 hours
2019-04-12T01:19:02 < Cracki> then wat r u doing on the internet still
2019-04-12T01:19:09 < Thorn> spacex is live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXMGu2d8c8g
2019-04-12T01:19:46 < jadew`> Cracki, that's a good question
2019-04-12T01:20:11 < mawk> I guess specing yes
2019-04-12T01:20:16 < Cracki> I know the feeling. it's zombie-like
2019-04-12T01:20:22 < mawk> since they all achieve compatibility with the relevant arduino size
2019-04-12T01:20:26 < mawk> or seek, at least
2019-04-12T01:20:44 < Cracki> nucleos have arduino pin headers... discos might also
2019-04-12T01:21:23 < Cracki> my disco has no arduino headers, just two dual rows
2019-04-12T01:22:10 < jadew`> if you're only allowed one reason to hate arduino, those stupid headers would be it
2019-04-12T01:22:22 < jadew`> and how they've infected everything
2019-04-12T01:22:49 < Cracki> they've fucked up one piece of the header, its distance is 0.04/0.06" off grid iirc
2019-04-12T01:22:54 < Cracki> now it's god's word
2019-04-12T01:23:04 < jadew`> yeah...
2019-04-12T01:23:18 < Cracki> they could snap that to 0.05 maybe
2019-04-12T01:23:41 < jadew`> they could snap them all in half throw them into the trash
2019-04-12T01:23:42 < Cracki> or fix it right and then let the chinese sell "riser cards"
2019-04-12T01:23:46 < jadew`> that would solve everything
2019-04-12T01:23:47 < Cracki> heh
2019-04-12T01:24:22 < Cracki> while we're at it, those cheap stm32 gum stick shaped boards from china... some of them have superfluous pcb making them uselessly wide
2019-04-12T01:25:37 < jadew`> t-9:30
2019-04-12T01:25:56 < Cracki> time for a quick hot shower? :>
2019-04-12T01:26:14 < jadew`> I'm going to get some sparkling water
2019-04-12T01:26:26 < Cracki> plus 2-3 minutes before the boosters do anything acrobatic
2019-04-12T01:29:11 < jadew`> I'm off to bed
2019-04-12T01:29:40 < zyp> have fun
2019-04-12T01:29:52 < jadew`> I'm kidding, but thanks :)
2019-04-12T01:29:58 < jadew`> only 5 minutes to go
2019-04-12T01:30:17 < zyp> was this scheduled for yesterday and scrubbed?
2019-04-12T01:30:22 < Thorn> yes
2019-04-12T01:30:32 < zyp> good, I didn't have time to watch last night
2019-04-12T01:30:40 < Thorn> upper level winds
2019-04-12T01:31:05 < jadew`> upper level = in the atmosphere?
2019-04-12T01:31:27 < jadew`> if yes, how do they know?
2019-04-12T01:31:38 < jadew`> weather balloons?
2019-04-12T01:31:40 < zyp> balloons
2019-04-12T01:31:57 < zyp> at least, that's how they did it here
2019-04-12T01:32:30 < Cracki> can that be done with doppler radar too?
2019-04-12T01:33:02 < zyp> here (as in the norwegian launch site) they just use balloons with dumb retroreflectors that they track on radar IIRC
2019-04-12T01:33:04 < Thorn> radar only detects moisture iirc
2019-04-12T01:33:07 < Cracki> i know doppler echo can show blood flow
2019-04-12T01:33:24 < Cracki> hm right, radio is unaffected by a little wind
2019-04-12T01:33:26 < Thorn> as in water droplets
2019-04-12T01:33:51 < zyp> Cracki, yeah, those doppler echo things are cool
2019-04-12T01:34:09 < Thorn> wtf happened to the water tower
2019-04-12T01:34:17 < Cracki> it watered?
2019-04-12T01:34:29 < Thorn> overflowed?
2019-04-12T01:34:37 < Cracki> what am I supposed to see
2019-04-12T01:34:59 < Cracki> ah there
2019-04-12T01:35:12 < Cracki> back pressure or something? :>
2019-04-12T01:35:51 < Cracki> maybe that's how they top it off and it overflows or something
2019-04-12T01:37:59 < jadew`> do the boosters land?
2019-04-12T01:38:02 < Cracki> yes
2019-04-12T01:38:06 < jadew`> neat
2019-04-12T01:38:13 < Cracki> and this time we get to see feed from both boosters, not twice the same
2019-04-12T01:38:14 < zyp> all three cores will attempt to land
2019-04-12T01:38:21 < Cracki> ah nice
2019-04-12T01:38:31 < Cracki> those two will probably do a near sync touchdown again :P
2019-04-12T01:40:15 < Thorn> will be ironic if they collide
2019-04-12T01:41:49 < jadew`> how far do they land from where they were launched?
2019-04-12T01:42:09 < Thorn> within line of sight
2019-04-12T01:42:09 < Thorn> a couple km probably
2019-04-12T01:42:41 < jadew`> that would be good, but don't they travel a lot horizontally?
2019-04-12T01:43:06 < zyp> yes
2019-04-12T01:43:07 < Cracki> nice
2019-04-12T01:43:12 < zyp> they turn around and return
2019-04-12T01:43:18 < jadew`> neat
2019-04-12T01:43:37 < Thorn> is one of them leaning or what
2019-04-12T01:44:00 < Cracki> might be lens distortion
2019-04-12T01:44:29 < jadew`> what's the deal with the drone ship?
2019-04-12T01:44:41 < zyp> that's where they land the center core
2019-04-12T01:44:51 < zyp> since it's going too fast to turn around and go back
2019-04-12T01:44:52 < jadew`> ah
2019-04-12T01:45:01 < jadew`> pff...
2019-04-12T01:45:17 < jadew`> fake landing
2019-04-12T01:45:21 < Cracki> it's always cutting out
2019-04-12T01:45:27 < Cracki> dishes shaking and such
2019-04-12T01:45:29 < BrainDamage> it probably destroys the antennas from the vibration
2019-04-12T01:46:26 < jadew`> I saved elon a lot of money by not going to bed
2019-04-12T01:46:33 < Cracki> they are getting better at keeping signal. it used to fuck them up for minutes after
2019-04-12T01:47:05 < jadew`> they surely have a second boat filming everything
2019-04-12T01:47:07 < Cracki> I think they have crew or something at safe distance and getting visual confirmation like that
2019-04-12T01:47:14 < BrainDamage> they probably have vibration figures for the landing now and are deploying dampeners
2019-04-12T01:48:08 < jadew`> night
2019-04-12T01:49:44 < Cracki> yeah fuck the payload :P
2019-04-12T01:50:01 < bitmask> I missed the take off but saw the boosters landing, anyway to rewatch the take off yet?
2019-04-12T01:50:10 < Cracki> yes, just scroll back
2019-04-12T01:50:15 < bitmask> you can do that?
2019-04-12T01:50:18 < bitmask> neat
2019-04-12T01:50:21 < Cracki> yt streams have had timeshift for years
2019-04-12T01:50:50 < Thorn> afaik only if the user enables rewind
2019-04-12T01:51:03 < Thorn> you can rewind up to 4 hours back
2019-04-12T01:51:12 < Cracki> it'll just fetch the "older" files afaik
2019-04-12T01:51:24 < Cracki> hm perhaps, spacex has never disabled that
2019-04-12T01:52:03 < Cracki> the seek bar also gives me thumbnail callouts when hovering
2019-04-12T01:52:17 < Cracki> quick way to find an event
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2019-04-12T02:02:15 < Cracki> +26:32, i think that was inside the tank
2019-04-12T02:04:02 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGdL-34L-GE rare kittens
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2019-04-12T02:05:17 < Cracki> fluffier than solid oxygen snowflakes
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2019-04-12T02:10:42 < kakimir> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felis how to even know if cat is domestic?
2019-04-12T02:11:10 < Cracki> uh... does it know that human = food source? then yes
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2019-04-12T02:30:14 < con3> So I'm seeing something weird. The error interrupt I set for my DMA is being triggered, although the register LISR shows no error interrupt being triggered...is this just something weird or am I missing something? If an error occurs it should trigger an interrupt flag in the DMA's LISR?
2019-04-12T02:31:56 < con3> well the error interrupt is being triggered in the sense that I have a breakpoint there and the code stops at the breakpoint
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2019-04-12T03:50:52 < mawk> the L432KC I have on this nucleo32 does the SIM card-NFC protocol
2019-04-12T03:50:52 < mawk> odd
2019-04-12T03:51:23 < mawk> SWPMI
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2019-04-12T09:54:52 < jadew`> random fact: because of the forces exerted on the spine during ejection from a plane, some pilots have ended up several cm shorter
2019-04-12T09:55:34 < jadew`> - Discovery documentary
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2019-04-12T09:59:17 < emeb_mac> guy I used to work with - his dad was in the air force. came in for a bad landing, plane inverted. hit the eject - got hammered headfirst into the ground.
2019-04-12T09:59:32 < emeb_mac> survived but was never the same again...
2019-04-12T09:59:36 < jadew`> damn...
2019-04-12T09:59:56 < jadew`> they say the ejection force is around 20 G
2019-04-12T10:00:29 < jadew`> it's surprising he survived
2019-04-12T10:00:39 < jadew`> I assume he had horizontal velocity too?
2019-04-12T10:00:49 < emeb_mac> yeah - not sure when this was, or what kind of plane.
2019-04-12T10:01:43 < emeb_mac> dude who told me the story was in his 30s in the late 80s, so his dad would likely have been Korean war age or so.
2019-04-12T10:02:22 < jadew`> ah, then maybe the forces weren't that high
2019-04-12T10:02:27 < emeb_mac> right
2019-04-12T10:02:59 < kakimir> suddenly - ejection seat chat
2019-04-12T10:04:07 < jadew`> did he tell you how he ended up inverted?
2019-04-12T10:04:21 < kakimir> modern ones have computer controlled flight paths I mean it's basically a missile with reaction controls
2019-04-12T10:04:37 < emeb_mac> apparently coming in for a landing on an airstrip that had some structures near the end of the runway
2019-04-12T10:04:46 < emeb_mac> landing gear clipped something
2019-04-12T10:04:52 < emeb_mac> flipped plane
2019-04-12T10:04:55 < jadew`> kakimir, sure, but they still have to go really fast, otherwise they might not take you away quick enough from the danger
2019-04-12T10:05:32 < jadew`> at supersonic speeds, they have to transport you away ASAP
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2019-04-12T10:06:10 < jadew`> emeb_mac, ah, so he was probably spinning
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2019-04-12T10:06:34 < emeb_mac> jadew`: very likely
2019-04-12T10:09:53 < jadew`> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsp0kGrwXW4&feature=youtu.be&t=457
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2019-04-12T10:19:08 < kakimir> at supersonic speeds you ded
2019-04-12T10:19:26 < kakimir> like 90% likelyhood of instant ded
2019-04-12T10:19:56 < jadew`> yeah, you have to keep a particular position otherwise you risk breaking things (like your neck)
2019-04-12T10:21:07 < kakimir> it breaks everything
2019-04-12T10:22:31 < kakimir> it's just luck thing
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2019-04-12T11:34:40 < jadew`> imdb keeps showing me various ads with Christina Hendricks, and I wonder...
2019-04-12T11:34:59 < jadew`> do they know I like big boobs and they're being considerate, or are they just being sexist?
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2019-04-12T12:06:34 < ohsix_> boop
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2019-04-12T12:07:25 < jadew`> ohsix, you're alive
2019-04-12T12:07:56 < Steffanx> He was revived. Its ohfive now
2019-04-12T12:18:13 < mitrax> zyp: regarding my OTG problem that occurs randomly, do you think there could be something wrong on startup with PLL48CK which is used as OTG clock? as it never exits from software reset, i'm wondering if it could be something clock related...except the registers have coherent values so it seems the core is running
2019-04-12T12:21:13 < ohsix> yea i've been busy heh
2019-04-12T12:21:18 < ohsix> frankly i could use more irc
2019-04-12T12:22:09 < ohsix> there's a planned power outage when they change some meters and i wanted to make sure everything was set to come back properly hehe, always a scramble after an unplanned power outage
2019-04-12T12:23:09 < zyp> mitrax, dunno, could be
2019-04-12T12:23:35 < zyp> I remember I had some issues with reset when I started out, but I don't remember what they were
2019-04-12T12:25:23 < mitrax> uh oh seems my PLL settings exceeds the VCO range, i have PLLN set to 450 and the maximum value is supposedly 432
2019-04-12T12:29:42 < ohsix> side channel attacks are cool
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2019-04-12T12:30:46 < ohsix> if experience is to go by, people don't really expect how easy (or possible) they are, been working with some dudes with degrees that aren't naive but they're surprised by some of the stuff i've been doing & telling them about
2019-04-12T12:31:05 < ohsix> the chipwhisperer is awesome too, btw; worth the price just to do the tutorials and throw it away
2019-04-12T12:34:43 < ohsix> anyone in here do anything with influxdb & grafana or any of those dashboard-y things?
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2019-04-12T12:37:04 < ohsix> every single person at the local colleges are doing web stuff but none of them have done or seen much :| passive learning in real life is almost impossible
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2019-04-12T12:55:47 < mitrax> thought i had found a sweet PLL factors combination to get both the max cpu speed (180Mhz) and the 48Mhz OTG clock... turns out the VCO freq is 720Mhz with those when the recommended max is 432Mhz... weird i didn't run into more trouble earlier
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2019-04-12T15:46:22 < Steffanx> Was e-stalking you jpa- . Why your company website is dead?
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2019-04-12T15:47:53 < con3> Steffanx: Messed around with the interrupt priorities and looks like the fatfs is working now
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2019-04-12T15:48:59 < Steffanx> Why dont you move the fatfs stuff outside the interrupt con3? Set a flag and close it somewhere where you know you can?
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2019-04-12T15:49:33 < Steffanx> What if youre closing the file you just started writing too etc.?
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2019-04-12T15:49:53  * con3 thinks
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2019-04-12T15:51:04 < con3> Steffanx: if I set a flag in the interrupt how would that stop the issue of closing a file I just started writing to? 
2019-04-12T15:51:28 < rajkosto> you would finish writing ot it
2019-04-12T15:53:21 < Steffanx> When you do it from inside an interrupt without proper locking you have no clue where in the (for example write) process  it would close the file
2019-04-12T15:53:25 < con3> ah I think i understand what you mean. Just had a different image in my mind of what you were referring to.
2019-04-12T15:53:31 < Steffanx> Hah ok
2019-04-12T15:53:35 < con3> that's clever
2019-04-12T15:53:41 < zyp> why are you writing from an ISR at all?
2019-04-12T15:53:49 < Steffanx> Hes closing it
2019-04-12T15:53:56 < zyp> why?
2019-04-12T15:53:59 < Steffanx> The file. But no clue why he does that :P
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2019-04-12T15:54:35 < con3> yeah the interrupt gets triggered when my sampling period is done. Whatever event I wanted to see is finished, so the interrupt is where I turn off the adc's and move to deepsleep
2019-04-12T15:55:08 < zyp> calling into libraries from ISRs have a bunch of reentrancy pitfalls
2019-04-12T15:55:27 < con3> I'm pretty sure there are a lot of better ways to do this, but I'm learning on my own so got no negative feedback :p
2019-04-12T15:55:42 < zyp> hey, I'm being constructive here :)
2019-04-12T15:56:05 < con3> zyp: I know ;) and I appreciate it.
2019-04-12T15:56:13 < zyp> instead of doing stuff from the ISR, have it set a flag or a state variable that the main task checks before doing work
2019-04-12T15:56:36 < mitrax> con3: good for you dongs isn't here :D
2019-04-12T15:57:38 < con3> ^ He seems extremely clever but I shall never mention atollic truestudio in this chat again
2019-04-12T15:57:44 < mitrax> ahaha
2019-04-12T15:57:46 < zyp> haha
2019-04-12T15:58:00 < con3> zyp: that's definetly a much better approach
2019-04-12T15:59:15 < con3> I went the interrupt way because after my main loop starts the sampling process it doesn't do anything until the end of sampling is triggered(i.e. the interrupt). 
2019-04-12T15:59:45 < con3> but I think I can definetly alter it to set a flag and close. which would solve a lot of problems
2019-04-12T15:59:57 < con3> thanks for the help everyone. appreciate it!
2019-04-12T16:04:23 < mitrax> zyp: seems it was indeed PLL/clock related, VCO freq was way out of range and i guess the PLL48CK clock although 48Mhz after the Q divider was sometimes faulty and causing the core to hang (or something along that line), 400+ reboots in a loop and it did not happen again
2019-04-12T16:05:00 < zyp> interesting, makes sense
2019-04-12T16:05:08 < con3> Got another question.. I've been looking into using the IWDG, but is there any way to know if this IWDG has reset the device. I know the WWDG has a interrupt, but how would you know whether a system reset occured so I can inform the server?
2019-04-12T16:05:53 < zyp> I think there's a reset reason register somewhere, maybe in SYSCFG
2019-04-12T16:06:05 < zyp> probably depends which stm32 family you're working on
2019-04-12T16:06:09  * con3 searches
2019-04-12T16:06:18 < con3> stm32f7
2019-04-12T16:09:18 < con3> The reset source can be identified by checking the reset flags in the RCC clock control & status register (RCC_CSR)
2019-04-12T16:09:23 < con3> dammit I should've known that
2019-04-12T16:09:50 < con3> thanks again for the help zyp
2019-04-12T16:10:04 < zyp> oh, in RCC
2019-04-12T16:10:28 < zyp> thanks for correcting me :)
2019-04-12T16:11:33 < rajkosto> stm32f103 has only 20 bytes of battery backed sram TOTAL ?
2019-04-12T16:11:40 < rajkosto> thought it was 80
2019-04-12T16:12:00 < zyp> you mean the backup registers in the RTC block?
2019-04-12T16:12:15 < zyp> maybe it's 20 registers of 32 bits each, i.e. 80 bytes?
2019-04-12T16:12:29 < rajkosto> conflicting info
2019-04-12T16:12:50 < rajkosto> all the registers are 16bit in that area btw
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2019-04-12T16:30:54 < karlp> there'sa different "densities" of stm32f1 pzrts
2019-04-12T16:30:59 < karlp> they have different backup sizes
2019-04-12T16:39:48 < rajkosto> medium
2019-04-12T16:53:57 < con3> Is the software reset flag in the rcc for when the device is reset by :NVIC_SystemReset()
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2019-04-12T18:25:11 < jadew`> any analog simulators that look pretty and colorful?
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2019-04-12T18:55:07 < Cracki> some kind of spice or maybe something less fancy?
2019-04-12T18:55:33 < jadew`> falstad did the job
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2019-04-12T19:37:29 < mawk> if I get the user manual correctly on nucleo32 boards the 8MHz clock from stlink isn't routed to the core
2019-04-12T19:37:35 < mawk> that's a different solder bridge config
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2019-04-12T20:10:58 < jpa-> Steffanx: well i don't know, but thanks for informing me!
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2019-04-12T20:14:52 < jpa-> Steffanx: probably some problem with my webhost
2019-04-12T20:16:16 < Steffanx> Is it quadruple load balanced and whatever more jpa- . And yw 
2019-04-12T20:16:49 < jpa-> no, it's no-redundancy outsourced to the cheapest company i could find
2019-04-12T20:17:03 < Steffanx> :)
2019-04-12T20:17:25 < Steffanx> How cheap was that? < 20 e/year?
2019-04-12T20:18:09 < jpa-> 23e/year
2019-04-12T20:25:43 < Thorn> so I have interrupts and a main loop that calls event handlers when a semaphore for a particular event is set by an interrupt handler. I want to WFI when no events are pending. how do I do that? use a counting semaphore that tracks the # of pending events or what?
2019-04-12T20:26:18 < jpa-> why different semaphores for events, if just one loop handles them all?
2019-04-12T20:26:38 < Thorn> or maybe a message queue
2019-04-12T20:26:39 < jpa-> you could have just a queue of event codes and then it would deliver the events in correct order
2019-04-12T20:27:17 < Thorn> yeah I've done something like that with freertos but now I want to be os-free
2019-04-12T20:27:46 < jpa-> is there a particular reason why you want to pass the events to mainloop anyway?
2019-04-12T20:27:49 < Thorn> so I guess I need to copy/paste a ring buffer from my uart code lol
2019-04-12T20:28:03 < jpa-> instead of just using NVIC as your scheduler
2019-04-12T20:29:57 < Thorn> I've got multi-level logic, e.g. an interrupt receives a data packet, then it's handed to a protocol state machine (with timers and stuff) which will handle it differently depending of the state it's in, etc.
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2019-04-12T21:03:03 < kakimir> busrider
2019-04-12T21:03:45 < Steffanx> car is still dead?
2019-04-12T21:04:17 <@englishman> shortbus
2019-04-12T21:04:25 < kakimir> nightbusrider *insertsynthwave.mp3*
2019-04-12T21:04:43 < kakimir> car has parts now
2019-04-12T21:05:09 < mawk> bus is my most hated method of transportation
2019-04-12T21:05:18 < mawk> I'd rather take a cab or walk
2019-04-12T21:06:25 < kakimir> if bus only had comfy seats
2019-04-12T21:06:26 < kakimir> no problem
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2019-04-12T21:14:00 < mawk> bus is crowded and shaky
2019-04-12T21:14:03 < mawk> gives me nausea
2019-04-12T21:14:15 < mawk> subway is the best thing
2019-04-12T21:15:03 < kakimir> there is like 2 ppl here
2019-04-12T21:15:06 < mawk> in cube for my nucleo32 I set 8MHz HSE from stlink as the entry for PLL, then set every clock to 80MHz, so including the timer clocks
2019-04-12T21:15:07 < kakimir> me and driver
2019-04-12T21:15:18 < mawk> but when I query the timer clock freq HAL says 4 MHz
2019-04-12T21:15:20 < kakimir> I take the back seat
2019-04-12T21:15:25 < kakimir> driver takes the front seat
2019-04-12T21:15:29 < mawk> lol
2019-04-12T21:16:27 < jpa-> Steffanx: apparently i had missed some dns update, should work now or within an hour
2019-04-12T21:16:27 < kakimir> it's friday
2019-04-12T21:17:25 < mawk> I thought it was thursday
2019-04-12T21:17:29 < mawk> thank you kakimir 
2019-04-12T21:18:29 < kakimir> which seat I can take?
2019-04-12T21:18:33 < Steffanx> i dont remember why i was e-stalking you jpa-
2019-04-12T21:18:48 < mawk> it's love
2019-04-12T21:19:28 < Steffanx> oh i do. someone mentioned some finnish place and i thought "isnt mr jpa- from there?". Be he wasnt.
2019-04-12T21:19:32 < Steffanx> but*
2019-04-12T21:19:51 < jpa-> i'm from many finnish places
2019-04-12T21:20:08 < Steffanx> but not right now.
2019-04-12T21:20:20 < kakimir> Kekkonen
2019-04-12T21:20:31 < Steffanx> *kekkoinen
2019-04-12T21:21:01 < Steffanx> there has to be an ai or oi or whatever in there otherwise its not finnish, kakimir
2019-04-12T21:21:41 < kakimir> they claim they froze him so that he can be melted and used in tough situation if such arrise
2019-04-12T21:22:15 < qyx> what, show?
2019-04-12T21:22:28 < qyx> oh him
2019-04-12T21:24:52 < kakimir> president over 25years
2019-04-12T21:26:53 < kakimir> pressed disable button for elections
2019-04-12T21:27:40 < invzim> any known gotchas with 'hot inserting' micro sd cards?
2019-04-12T21:31:27 < jpa-> invzim: they can have significant internal capacitance, which can cause spikes in your +3.3V rail
2019-04-12T21:31:55 <@englishman> you should bump that up to 33V to prevent spikes
2019-04-12T21:32:08 < invzim> got a decoupling cap on the power pin for it
2019-04-12T21:32:40 < invzim> I get a hardfault on hot inserting it on one board, not another, and intermittent on a third
2019-04-12T21:32:54 < jpa-> how much of decoupling cap?
2019-04-12T21:32:57 < invzim> .1
2019-04-12T21:33:00 < bvernoux> invzim, add also 1uF in // to 100nF is good
2019-04-12T21:33:11 < bvernoux> on some microSD card 10uF can be also required
2019-04-12T21:33:21 < bvernoux> depending on the power supply behind
2019-04-12T21:33:28 < jpa-> invzim: so.. if the card has 1µF, you'll get a drop to 0.3V? :P
2019-04-12T21:34:11 < kakimir> jpa-: how much of capacitance?
2019-04-12T21:34:11 < invzim> powering it from my fancy dp831 psu makes no difference, and I have 10uf bulk cap
2019-04-12T21:34:17 < kakimir> it makes sense
2019-04-12T21:34:28 < kakimir> connection is bad you need to make them writes work
2019-04-12T21:34:33 < jpa-> kakimir: AFAIK 1µF is quite common, but i'm trying to find a spec now
2019-04-12T21:34:43 < bvernoux> anyway the best is to check 3v3 microSD rail with a scope
2019-04-12T21:34:48 < kakimir> is it speced jpa-?
2019-04-12T21:34:48 < bvernoux> to check overshoot/undershoot
2019-04-12T21:34:51 < invzim> it's pretty immediate, and happens even if I don't init the sd stuff in code
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2019-04-12T21:35:29 < kakimir> drive supply with resistor and if something is detected in card supply then monitor it until it stabilizes and then use fet
2019-04-12T21:35:34 < invzim> bvernoux: yup, that's good actionable advice I can do quickly
2019-04-12T21:36:00 < bvernoux> do you have added pull up on each IO ?
2019-04-12T21:36:19 < bvernoux> DAT1 to DAT3 shall have 10K PullUp
2019-04-12T21:36:29 < invzim> bvernoux: not external, and it happens even before gpio is initialized
2019-04-12T21:36:36 < jpa-> kakimir: such soft-start circuit could then violate the power supply rise time specs of the card
2019-04-12T21:36:37 < bvernoux> work up to 50K but I prefer 10K to reach max possible speed ;)
2019-04-12T21:37:04 < bvernoux> CLK shall not have any pullup/pulldown of course
2019-04-12T21:38:47 < bvernoux> also CMD shall have a 10K PullUp
2019-04-12T21:38:51 < qyx> jpa-: did you find?
2019-04-12T21:39:18 < bvernoux> DAT3 shall do not have pullup as it is also used as CD and contains an internal pullup
2019-04-12T21:39:22 < jpa-> qyx: not so far
2019-04-12T21:40:17 < bvernoux> kakimir, also check the LDO have the correct decoupling capacitor on the IN/OUT like specified by the datasheet of the LDO
2019-04-12T21:40:22 < qyx> " I, like many engineers before me, neglected an important concept when designing circuitry for a behavioral data SD interface. We did not take the in-rush current into consideration"
2019-04-12T21:40:26 < qyx> https://resources.altium.com/pcb-design-blog/how-to-design-microsd-power-circuits-without-destabilizing-on-board-voltage-supply
2019-04-12T21:40:29 < qyx> hah
2019-04-12T21:40:52 < qyx> 20:36 < bvernoux> DAT1 to DAT3 shall have 10K PullUp
2019-04-12T21:40:54 < qyx> 20:39 < bvernoux> DAT3 shall do not have pullup as it is also used as CD and contains an internal pullup
2019-04-12T21:40:59 < qyx> you are not being helpful
2019-04-12T21:41:07 < bvernoux> kakimir, on LD1117 it is heavily recommended to have 10uF & 100nF on VIN and 10uF on VOUT
2019-04-12T21:41:31 < bvernoux> then you will have a rock stable power supply ;)
2019-04-12T21:43:52 < kakimir> have separate regulator for sd card
2019-04-12T21:44:27 < invzim> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tJ15qaixd8KM1SDdvO0zFbrqXbhnoXFi/view
2019-04-12T21:45:20 < invzim> I used this ldo for 1.2, 1.8, 2.5 in other project and had proper coax to measure noise and it was great
2019-04-12T21:47:49 < invzim> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tlv733p.pdf
2019-04-12T21:48:03 < invzim> I'll jerry rig some stuff on my pcb and have a look at the scope
2019-04-12T21:50:29 < jpa-> qyx: for what it's worth, I measured a few random cards with resistor + scope; got results between 3-5µF
2019-04-12T21:52:15 < jpa-> qyx: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1836582.pdf says "To limit inrush current caused by host insertion, card maximum
2019-04-12T21:52:15 < jpa-> capacitance between VDD - VSS is defined as 5uF. To support host hot insertion, the host should consider decoupling capacitor connected to power line.
2019-04-12T21:52:15 < jpa-> As microSD card Cc is 5uF(Max.), 45uF(min.) is recommended for Decoupling capacitor. For more details, please refer to Appendix E of the SDA Physi-
2019-04-12T21:52:16 < jpa-> cal Layer Specification 3.00.
2019-04-12T21:52:39 < bvernoux> invzim, it is good to add ESD protection on VBUS/D+/D-
2019-04-12T21:53:34 < invzim> yes it is :)  
2019-04-12T21:54:19 < qyx> jpa-: O-o thats much
2019-04-12T21:54:51 < invzim> the ic is not super sensitive though, so I intentionally skipped it to keep space/cost/complexity down
2019-04-12T21:55:21 < invzim> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stm32f401cb.pdf <-6.3.14
2019-04-12T21:55:23 < bvernoux> example
2019-04-12T21:55:23 < bvernoux> https://ibb.co/6Zf5wCn
2019-04-12T21:56:15 < bvernoux> ECMF02-2AMX6 is a must have for ESD and common filter all in one
2019-04-12T21:56:21 < bvernoux> especially for sensitive design
2019-04-12T21:56:30 < bvernoux> else you can use just a cheaper ESD only
2019-04-12T21:57:57 < invzim> was looking at USBLC6-2, maybe another rev
2019-04-12T22:09:09 < invzim> ohyes
2019-04-12T22:09:14 < invzim> the scope doesn't lie
2019-04-12T22:09:25 < invzim> you need more than a decap to handle hot insertion :)
2019-04-12T22:11:39 < zyp> sup?
2019-04-12T22:12:53 < invzim> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YKjbPApkjilsH4myiL6U4CJPzy9lMVXu
2019-04-12T22:14:38 < jadew`> maybe shitty supply to begin with?
2019-04-12T22:15:14 < invzim> granted this was through a usb charge analyzer from my PC, but still
2019-04-12T22:15:24 < invzim> + it's my junk pcb missing a few things
2019-04-12T22:15:43 < invzim> will tidy up and test again, but pretty sure I found the root cause for hard-fault on sd insertion :)
2019-04-12T22:17:07 < invzim> good lesson tho, will def add u.fl on new prorotypes to analyzer power properly
2019-04-12T22:17:25 < zyp> haha
2019-04-12T22:29:01 < jpa-> relatively safe way is just to put a separate regulator for the SD card
2019-04-12T22:29:51 < zyp> if you're doing highspeed SD you need an adjustable regulator anyway
2019-04-12T22:35:57 < invzim> made it 'clean', added a 1uf to sd supply, did precious little
2019-04-12T22:37:03 < jpa-> the card will take its 5uF and laugh at your tiny 1uF cap
2019-04-12T22:38:48 < invzim> yeah, but I already have a 10uf bulk, but not close, which should take care of that
2019-04-12T22:39:10 < jpa-> you mean, it should limit the voltage drop to about 1V?
2019-04-12T22:39:22 < jpa-> .. which is what you are seeing?
2019-04-12T22:39:35 < invzim> yes damnit
2019-04-12T22:39:36 < invzim> :)
2019-04-12T22:47:20 < invzim> ok, so with a .1uf, 1uf and 10uf sandwiched together, the drop is down to 330mv
2019-04-12T22:47:51 < invzim> and a spike of 440
2019-04-12T22:48:11 < invzim> looks fugly, if I'm ever doing something half critical I'm going for a dedicated ldo for this
2019-04-12T22:49:33 < Thorn> qyx: did you subtract LNA gain from the RSSI value?
2019-04-12T22:53:14 < Thorn> if I do that then I get more realistic signal levels at the receiver (around -40dBm)
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2019-04-12T22:59:41 < invzim> it's my laptop's usb output that is terrible, I guess
2019-04-12T22:59:53 < invzim> with the cap sandwich and either charger or fancy psu it's rock solid
2019-04-12T23:08:50 <@englishman> local isp is offering 940/50
2019-04-12T23:08:51 <@englishman> wtf
2019-04-12T23:09:00 < zyp> haha
2019-04-12T23:09:10 < zyp> fiber?
2019-04-12T23:09:17 < rajkosto> close to 1gbps total, good enough
2019-04-12T23:09:42 <@englishman> its listed under cable plans
2019-04-12T23:09:52 <@englishman> but the local telco they sublet from has fttp here
2019-04-12T23:09:59 <@englishman> so its probably fttp
2019-04-12T23:10:05 < rajkosto> converted to coax
2019-04-12T23:10:09 <@englishman> no
2019-04-12T23:10:13 < rajkosto> and then goes through a docsis 3.2 model
2019-04-12T23:10:17 <@englishman> oh
2019-04-12T23:10:21 < rajkosto> only reason for such low uploads
2019-04-12T23:10:24 <@englishman> is there gigabutt cable now
2019-04-12T23:10:27 <@englishman> ghey
2019-04-12T23:10:33 < rajkosto> yeah 32 DS channels or something
2019-04-12T23:10:38 < zyp> rajkosto, makes sense
2019-04-12T23:10:50 < rajkosto> PON is always 1:2 ratio or just symmetrical
2019-04-12T23:10:56 < zyp> sounds retarded though, might as well pull the fiber all the way in
2019-04-12T23:10:59 <@englishman> hmm lets see
2019-04-12T23:11:04 < rajkosto> unless they arent offering different plans depending on your connection type
2019-04-12T23:11:10 <@englishman> well this is a rural area
2019-04-12T23:11:13 <@englishman> i had fttp in the city
2019-04-12T23:11:14 < zyp> rajkosto, not when the isp is retarded
2019-04-12T23:11:25 < rajkosto> like some isps here doing 20/2 over PON because... its the same as their ADSL2+ plans
2019-04-12T23:11:31 < zyp> yeah, here too
2019-04-12T23:11:46 < zyp> well, not 20/2, but like 80/20
2019-04-12T23:11:47 < rajkosto> and everybody has the same PPPoE stuff regardless of connection type
2019-04-12T23:11:51 < zyp> or whatever it was
2019-04-12T23:11:51 <@englishman> oh shit it is definitely that
2019-04-12T23:12:21 < zyp> hmm, wonder when I'm gonna get internet here
2019-04-12T23:12:33 < zyp> still just leechng off my friend
2019-04-12T23:12:38 <@englishman> there is fttn stuff too but its 50/10 only
2019-04-12T23:12:39 <@englishman> however
2019-04-12T23:12:41 <@englishman> its half price
2019-04-12T23:12:42 <@englishman> hmmm
2019-04-12T23:13:25 < rajkosto> the lowest coax plan here is 150/6 docsis has terrible upload ratios especially on old infrastructure
2019-04-12T23:14:40 <@englishman> oh yeah the fttp provider offers 1.5/940
2019-04-12T23:15:12 <@englishman> and their pricing is not too bad
2019-04-12T23:16:09 < mawk> doc say about nucleo32 « In applications where VCP is used for communication at a speed higher than 9600 bauds, it may be needed to use this solder bridge configuration, to use 8 MHz clock (MCO from ST-LINK) and get a more precise frequency. »
2019-04-12T23:16:30 < mawk> but the chip (L432KC) has a 4MHz MSI that's precise enough for USB
2019-04-12T23:16:41 <@englishman> lol but they only offer gigE lan
2019-04-12T23:16:41 < mawk> if it's precise enough for USB it's good for UART too right ?
2019-04-12T23:16:54 <@englishman> it says 1.5gb possible using combined gigE+wifi
2019-04-12T23:17:35 <@englishman> VCP being the uart thru the stlink?
2019-04-12T23:17:50 < mawk> yes
2019-04-12T23:17:58 < mawk> virtual com port
2019-04-12T23:18:53 <@englishman> oh yeah nucleo32 is the small one with no native usb port
2019-04-12T23:19:12 <@englishman> sounds like what you are saying is right
2019-04-12T23:19:35 <@englishman> unless the mcu couldnt be clocked to the correct frequency for some reason
2019-04-12T23:20:25 < mawk> good
2019-04-12T23:25:21 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone have an example for how to modify  int8_t CDC_Receive_FS(uint8_t* Buf, uint32_t *Len)?
2019-04-12T23:25:44 < zyp> modify?
2019-04-12T23:25:55 < ColdKeyboard> is CDC driver receiving one by one character or more than one?
2019-04-12T23:26:00 < ColdKeyboard> *len always seem to be 1
2019-04-12T23:26:32 < ColdKeyboard> Basically I want to receive all chars and then when new line is detected, call another function
2019-04-12T23:26:33 < jadew`> maybe it receives faster than you're sending?
2019-04-12T23:26:41 < ColdKeyboard> jadew`: Most likely
2019-04-12T23:26:46 < zyp> I don't know the implementation, but I'd guess in practice it'll vary between 1 and 64
2019-04-12T23:27:17 < ColdKeyboard> zyp: Endpoint's RX buffer is only 8 bytes long I think
2019-04-12T23:27:26 < zyp> no, it's 64
2019-04-12T23:27:43 < zyp> hmm, actually, you might be right
2019-04-12T23:27:54 < zyp> but I still think it's 64, so double check that at least :)
2019-04-12T23:28:32 < ColdKeyboard> Okay, I think you can config it to 8/16/32/64
2019-04-12T23:29:10 < zyp> probably
2019-04-12T23:29:17 < ColdKeyboard> I guess I'll have to modify the function to receive chracters and then after every RX loop through to find new line
2019-04-12T23:29:22 < zyp> either way, point still stands
2019-04-12T23:40:13 < jadew`> ColdKeyboard, that's not how it's done
2019-04-12T23:40:40 < jadew`> you pour whatever you get from that function into a buffer, one character at a time
2019-04-12T23:40:49 < jadew`> if the character is a new line, you parse the current buffer
2019-04-12T23:41:06 < jadew`> you then start from 0, pouring the rest of the data until the next new line
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--- Day changed Sat Apr 13 2019
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2019-04-13T00:11:35 < superbia> evening pro Steffanx 
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2019-04-13T00:40:15 < Steffanx> Welcome mr superbia. Hows poplanging?
2019-04-13T00:40:24 < superbia> sad
2019-04-13T00:40:31 < superbia> ty
2019-04-13T00:41:18 < bitmask> I need me fix locke
2019-04-13T00:43:35 < superbia> can we help
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2019-04-13T01:00:10 < bitmask> nope
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2019-04-13T02:14:58 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/bmhqDfN.jpg RIP
2019-04-13T02:20:34 < bitmask> the funny thing is, in my irc client, your name is green
2019-04-13T02:21:27 < dongs> well , i am all about green energy
2019-04-13T02:23:37 < bitmask> is it monday yet
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2019-04-13T02:45:07 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone why linker is complaining about this `usbd_conf.c:(.text.USBD_LL_Init+0x28): undefined reference to `HAL_PCD_Init'` and bunch other functions?
2019-04-13T02:45:22 < ColdKeyboard> *Anyone have an idea why
2019-04-13T02:46:27 < ColdKeyboard> lol, nevermind :D
2019-04-13T02:48:29 < bitmask> because those references are undefined? :)
2019-04-13T02:48:37 < rajkosto> your whatever_usb.c file was excluded from build ?
2019-04-13T02:48:39 < rajkosto> they are by default
2019-04-13T02:59:22 < mawk> you need to compile and link against relevant .c to get the functions they're define ColdKeyboard 
2019-04-13T02:59:24 < mawk> C works that way
2019-04-13T02:59:29 < mawk> #include isn't enough
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2019-04-13T03:08:07 < specing> Can anyone recommend me a voltage clamp circuit for stm32? I will be measuring 12V with heavy spikes, probably through a resistor divider. Should I go opamp or will zeners be fine?
2019-04-13T03:08:09 < ColdKeyboard> Wrong .c file specified in makefile :)
2019-04-13T03:08:22 < specing> s/clamp/clipper/
2019-04-13T03:09:34 < ColdKeyboard> specing: zener + opamp are cheaper than your STM32 so if op-amp blows it's few cents to replace it
2019-04-13T03:11:58 < specing> Yes. But I read that there are also opamps with built-in protection
2019-04-13T03:12:07 < specing> but I'm not an EE, so I need some example to work on
2019-04-13T03:28:02 < specing> ColdKeyboard: ^
2019-04-13T03:31:55 < ColdKeyboard> specing: Pretty much all micros and some digital components have "protection" diodes or steering diodes. They are a biproduct of P and N type transistors. For example when your input goes ~0.6V over VCC the diode will start to conduct. Same if it goes ~0.6V below your GND.
2019-04-13T03:32:41 < ColdKeyboard> You can use a high value resistors to create a voltage divider so you limit the current that flows through your sense network and then use op-amp to buffer that voltage since it's going to be a very high impedance
2019-04-13T03:33:48 < specing> ColdKeyboard: yeah about those diodes... there is no mention of ADC pins having these, and they are explicitly not marked 5V tolerant
2019-04-13T03:34:25 < specing> It doesen't have to be high-value resistance as my application will be off most of the time
2019-04-13T03:34:40 < specing> but my problem is that I've never worked with opamps and need examples :)
2019-04-13T03:35:27 < specing> is there a ~1-10 page introduction to opamps?
2019-04-13T03:35:56 < ColdKeyboard> specing: Use voltage divider to drop your input voltage to a range that is less or equal to you AVref when VIn is maximum. If you use 100K or even 10K for your high side resistor you already limited the current, then you can use OpAmp just to buffer that voltage and give a more accurate reading since ADC will have a capacitive load that might threw voltage divider off by a bit or at least limit 
2019-04-13T03:35:56 < ColdKeyboard> how fast you can do your adc
2019-04-13T03:36:41 < ColdKeyboard> Also you can put ESD didoe on either your input pin or the ADC pin so you protect your device against sudden spikes
2019-04-13T03:38:06 < ColdKeyboard> https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/fundamentals-of-op-amp-circuits (didn't read it but I guess it covers what you are looking for)
2019-04-13T03:38:30 < specing> ColdKeyboard: what I have right now https://framapic.org/jL7vwKAjTXm3/LVVoZRZZn8yz.png
2019-04-13T03:42:14 < ColdKeyboard> specing: You can change the resistor connected to BAT+ (high side) to ~100K and then the other one to 33.2K. That would give you Vin/Vout ration of ~0.249 (almost 1/4)
2019-04-13T03:42:53 < ColdKeyboard> also 100K should be high enough to limit the max current that can get to your ADC pin
2019-04-13T03:45:55 < ColdKeyboard> In that config you might not even need an op-amp to buffer the voltage (assuming you don't care about the max speed of your A2D)
2019-04-13T03:49:38 < specing> Okay, so I would want a voltage follower there
2019-04-13T03:49:50 < specing> no external compoentns.  :DD
2019-04-13T03:51:06 < ds2> a PSoC5 is handy for these kind of experiments
2019-04-13T03:52:41 < ds2> draw and burn
2019-04-13T03:53:11 < specing> I'm sure a simulator does that better :)
2019-04-13T03:54:15 < specing> It is also quite possible that I'm overcomplicating
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2019-04-13T03:56:46 < ds2> yes but you cna't hook up real signals to the sim
2019-04-13T03:57:00 < specing> you can
2019-04-13T03:57:04 < specing> hardware-in-the-loop
2019-04-13T03:57:25 < ds2> which one can do that for under $50?
2019-04-13T03:58:25 < ds2> i been playing with the PSoC5 for signal conditioning of gas sensors (the ones with analog output)
2019-04-13T03:58:32 < specing> I didn't say it was cheap...
2019-04-13T03:58:48 < ds2> the little PSoC5 board is like $25 I think
2019-04-13T03:58:54 < ds2> like a discover board but smaller
2019-04-13T04:00:09 < ds2> only thing i couldn'get to work is current to voltage conversion but the muxes let's me run it through a resistor
2019-04-13T04:22:20 < ColdKeyboard> Is there a way that USB CDC will reinitialize itself without me having to reconnect the STM32?
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2019-04-13T04:50:34 < specing> ColdKeyboard: opamps seem to be ~$0.3 and not "a few cents" :(
2019-04-13T04:51:09 < specing> There seem to be ESD protected ones that have additional diodes on input
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2019-04-13T06:03:22 < jly> good morning microcontrollers
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2019-04-13T06:21:01 < ColdKeyboard> Is there a good example on how to simply parse a buffer to look for values? For example if I'm looking for "0:90:20:40:10" within a buffer
2019-04-13T06:21:25 < ColdKeyboard> I know you can easily write it but I'm wondering if there is a standard library or a commonly used repo for such stuff?
2019-04-13T06:29:47 < rajkosto> strstr for strings
2019-04-13T06:30:16 < rajkosto> memmem for things that might have zero bytes in them
2019-04-13T06:35:31 < ds2> lex
2019-04-13T06:35:44 < ds2> and maybe yacc
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2019-04-13T09:53:19 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: and scanf()
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2019-04-13T14:05:52 < Thorn> how come they're stlil in business https://fixyouraudio.com/
2019-04-13T14:11:15 < BrainDamage> e-shops have way lower base costs than physical ones
2019-04-13T14:11:42 < BrainDamage> so even if your volume is low, you just don't gain much rather than go negative
2019-04-13T14:12:30 < qyx> Thorn: no, I didn't mess with RSSI on sx1231
2019-04-13T14:12:52 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0HxhinK_2w
2019-04-13T14:14:52 < Thorn> qyx: I noticed in the sx1276 driver they read out LNA gain in addition to RSSI (at the same time) but that data is not used in any way in the driver or the examples. so I can't tell if you're supposed to subtract the LNA gain from the RSSI. (when I tried it I got more realistic values)
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2019-04-13T16:58:31 < bitmask> \o \o \o/ o/ o/
2019-04-13T17:02:21 < Steffanx> hi?
2019-04-13T17:05:16 < bitmask> hi 
2019-04-13T17:06:12 < bitmask> how many packages will arrive today
2019-04-13T17:07:36 < bitmask> so I bought this 'spycam' on ebay and of course it blows, they offered me 25% back, I guess I should just take it and be done with it
2019-04-13T17:07:51 < bitmask> I might be able to hack it and upload new firmware to make it better
2019-04-13T17:07:55 < bitmask> since its a common soc
2019-04-13T17:10:51 < Steffanx> it blows as in it sucks?
2019-04-13T17:11:31 < mawk> yes
2019-04-13T17:11:53 < mawk> you can discover new sexual vocabulary everyday
2019-04-13T17:11:55 < Steffanx> i usually just take my loss since.. ebay and i knew it couldnt be good.
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2019-04-13T17:12:35 < bitmask> yea, i thought for $26 it would at least work
2019-04-13T17:13:17 < bitmask> its rated for 1080p but thats impossible, the soc can only do 720p and thats what the files say too
2019-04-13T17:13:30 < bitmask> I should get all my money back for misinformation
2019-04-13T17:13:31 < Steffanx> hah
2019-04-13T17:14:08 < bitmask> and auto night mode doesn't work, you have to turn on the IR leds manually
2019-04-13T17:14:23 < bitmask> and the biggest problem is 1/3rd of the files are corrupt
2019-04-13T17:14:30 < Steffanx> and you're part of a botnet now
2019-04-13T17:14:35 < bitmask> heh
2019-04-13T17:14:44 < bitmask> probs
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2019-04-13T17:19:46 < bitmask> I just responded saying give me 75% refund and let me keep it and I wont leave negative feedback
2019-04-13T17:21:58 < Steffanx> hah
2019-04-13T17:22:45 < mawk> they usually agree to that bitmask 
2019-04-13T17:22:51 < mawk> negative review means death of their business
2019-04-13T17:22:56 < bitmask> hope so, I dont want to have to ship it back
2019-04-13T17:28:26 < Steffanx> Lets hope you do :P
2019-04-13T17:28:44 < bitmask> why you say that
2019-04-13T17:28:56 < Steffanx> fun
2019-04-13T17:28:59 < bitmask> how dare you
2019-04-13T17:29:37 < bitmask> is it monday yet
2019-04-13T17:30:45 < Steffanx> https://time.is/[whateverplaceyouarefrom]
2019-04-13T17:30:58 < Steffanx> monday is 2nd talk day?
2019-04-13T17:31:02 < bitmask> yup
2019-04-13T17:31:15 < bitmask> with cofounder of company
2019-04-13T17:32:56 < Thorn> can sx1276 and si4432 interoperate?
2019-04-13T17:33:40 < bitmask> wuffose
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2019-04-13T17:55:18 < bitmask> I hope this place hires me and plans on paying me $200k a year because I have a long list of stuffs to buy :P
2019-04-13T17:56:29 < Steffanx> hm
2019-04-13T17:57:42  * Sadale managed to get a day job. :3
2019-04-13T17:57:56 < bitmask> congrats, thats what I'm working on
2019-04-13T17:58:36 < bitmask> whachu do
2019-04-13T17:58:48 < Sadale> wow. $200k / year is a lot.
2019-04-13T17:58:55 < bitmask> I wasn't being serious
2019-04-13T17:58:56 < Sadale> firmware development of mesh network nodes.
2019-04-13T17:59:00 < bitmask> nice
2019-04-13T17:59:14 < bitmask> I'd be lucky to get 70k
2019-04-13T17:59:43 < Sadale> That's still quite a lot to me. :)
2019-04-13T17:59:53 < bitmask> where do you live?
2019-04-13T18:00:02 < Thorn> moneyed westerners
2019-04-13T18:00:03 < Sadale> Anyway quite a bit of income would get taxed away if you're living in the Europe or America.
2019-04-13T18:00:07 < Sadale> Hong Kong.
2019-04-13T18:00:15 < bitmask> cool
2019-04-13T18:00:31 < Sadale> I don't quite like this place tho. :p
2019-04-13T18:00:31 < bitmask> yea I mean 70k would end up being like what, 45-50k?
2019-04-13T18:00:48 < Sadale> I see. That's around what I'm making now, pretax. And the tax rate here is low.
2019-04-13T18:00:50 < jadew`> bitmask, what world do you live in?
2019-04-13T18:00:57 < jadew`> 70k would end up being more like 30k
2019-04-13T18:01:03 < bitmask> seriously?
2019-04-13T18:01:06 < jadew`> yes
2019-04-13T18:01:06 < bitmask> damn, 
2019-04-13T18:01:13 < Sadale> bitmask, I made $30k-ish in my previus day job. :-(
2019-04-13T18:01:15 < bitmask> I thought it was under 50%
2019-04-13T18:01:25 < jadew`> direct tax is between 40 and 50% in the EU
2019-04-13T18:01:28 < jadew`> then there's VAT
2019-04-13T18:01:37 < jadew`> which is usually about 20% of the remaining thing
2019-04-13T18:01:38 < Sadale> And I barely had to pay any tax at $30kish who.
2019-04-13T18:01:40 < bitmask> well I'm US, not sure what that changes
2019-04-13T18:01:47 < bitmask> no VAT at least
2019-04-13T18:01:53 < jadew`> so you only get to spend ~40% of what you're making
2019-04-13T18:01:53 < Steffanx> what was your game again Sadale? forgot to chek my score
2019-04-13T18:01:55 < rajkosto> there's sales tax in most of usa
2019-04-13T18:01:57 < jadew`> the rest goes to power the state
2019-04-13T18:02:09 < Sadale> Steffanx, poopie game? or the game console game?
2019-04-13T18:02:30 < jadew`> bitmask, yeah, no VAT in the US
2019-04-13T18:02:39 < Sadale> Steffanx, oh. rock paper scissors?
2019-04-13T18:02:42 < jadew`> don't know the taxation level there tbh, but it can't be too low
2019-04-13T18:03:18 < Sadale> Steffanx, I'm not sure about which one you're talking about. Anyway here're the links that you may be interested in: poopie: https://sadalenet.github.io/poopie/ rock paper scissors result: http://ikatokai.com/result
2019-04-13T18:04:35 < Steffanx> awh didnt win
2019-04-13T18:04:39 < Sadale> We've got a tax calculator here for the upcoming year. Unit in HKD: https://www.ird.gov.hk/eng/ese/st_comp_2018_19_budget/stcfrm.htm
2019-04-13T18:04:42 < bitmask> wtf is the point in working?
2019-04-13T18:04:45 < Sadale> Steffanx, still got a certificate :P
2019-04-13T18:04:50 < bitmask> I'm joining the black market economy
2019-04-13T18:07:38 < Sadale> Steffanx, anyway I'm rather happy to have got so many players this year. Last year we've only got 20-ish
2019-04-13T18:09:59 < Steffanx> Yeah its what the player on #19 said.
2019-04-13T18:16:23 < Sadale> lol that's not me.
2019-04-13T18:16:42 < Sadale> hold on. So you're "SadaleIsASpammer ;)" ?
2019-04-13T18:16:46 < Steffanx> must be something wrong with this game. too many papers in the top.
2019-04-13T18:17:07 < Steffanx> and i recall you doing that too once and you won
2019-04-13T18:17:13 < Sadale> right :(
2019-04-13T18:17:46 < Sadale> It wasn't a problem when we had 20ish players. Now we've got 200ish players. And, well, some of those 200ish players had exploiting throwing the repeating hands again. :(
2019-04-13T18:18:15 < Sadale> Perhaps next time I should allow any repeating hands at all. like if you've thrown a rock, the next one can't be a rock.
2019-04-13T18:18:36 < Sadale> This should probably fix the problem I guess.
2019-04-13T18:18:56 < Steffanx> but that would make it semi predictable
2019-04-13T18:20:02 < Sadale> how so?
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2019-04-13T19:10:05 < Steffanx> Idk 
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2019-04-13T20:48:34 < kakimir> how to set wifi password for raspbian before boot
2019-04-13T20:49:06 < kakimir> I have no lan, no kb, no monitor, external wifi card
2019-04-13T20:49:11 < kakimir> *adapter
2019-04-13T20:49:29 < bitmask> not sure, I used kb + hdmi
2019-04-13T20:49:46 < kakimir> I wonder if I should enable serial terminal
2019-04-13T20:49:53 < kakimir> in case I want to fiddle with it
2019-04-13T20:50:06 < kakimir> I box it and deploy it
2019-04-13T20:51:33 < kakimir> talologger use
2019-04-13T20:51:42 < kakimir> talo is finnish for house
2019-04-13T20:53:58 < Cracki> kakimir, insert card into computer, edit the right config files
2019-04-13T20:54:15 < Cracki> last time I did that, I found a few articles online that describe the process
2019-04-13T20:55:14 < Cracki> my pi has no display or HIDs either, basic config onto card, then did the rest via lan
2019-04-13T20:58:13 < kakimir> have you heard of talologger
2019-04-13T20:59:24 < mawk> kakimir: like Cracki said
2019-04-13T20:59:27 < mawk> is the obvious solution
2019-04-13T20:59:29 < Cracki> that's .fi-only, yes?
2019-04-13T20:59:55 < mawk> also who are you to not have an ethernet cable laying around
2019-04-13T21:00:06 < kakimir> I have plenty
2019-04-13T21:00:14 < kakimir> I just need to consume the shittiest raspis
2019-04-13T21:00:17 < mawk> connect to the pi
2019-04-13T21:00:23 < kakimir> no connection
2019-04-13T21:00:26 < mawk> but if you use 'noobs' it's not auto install
2019-04-13T21:00:27 < kakimir> no lan port
2019-04-13T21:00:30 < mawk> ah
2019-04-13T21:00:40 < mawk> I see
2019-04-13T21:01:07 < kakimir> talologger is something you can run on raspi
2019-04-13T21:01:18 < kakimir> it's not centralized service or anything
2019-04-13T21:01:43 < kakimir> good old you run your own shiet type of deal
2019-04-13T21:03:52 < kakimir> it's for monitoring boilers and indoor outdoor temperature etc.
2019-04-13T21:09:35 < Cracki> dude, just edit the right config files on the sd card
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2019-04-13T21:10:18 < Cracki> just make sure you can set or predict what IP it'll have
2019-04-13T21:13:00 < kakimir> wpa_supplicant.conf
2019-04-13T21:13:18 < kakimir> I control the lan so
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2019-04-13T21:53:28 < R2COM> hi
2019-04-13T21:55:12 < kakimir> hello
2019-04-13T21:56:17 < con3> Hey
2019-04-13T21:59:27 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-13T21:59:31 < Steffanx> Gooday
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2019-04-13T22:03:58 < mawk> my bank card is blocked again
2019-04-13T22:05:18 < mawk> I'm too poor
2019-04-13T22:05:23 < mawk> I should get into illegal stuff
2019-04-13T22:05:46 < mawk> put the skills to use
2019-04-13T22:06:05 < con3> mawk: I'm interested
2019-04-13T22:06:51 < mawk> selling drugs is too time consuming
2019-04-13T22:07:01 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-04-13T22:07:01 < mawk> I should buy card numbers and siphon them
2019-04-13T22:07:19 < R2COM> sorry, but those roles already taken by arabs and immigrants in your country. you are out.
2019-04-13T22:07:28 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-13T22:07:31 < mawk> :(
2019-04-13T22:08:11 < mawk> when I was running a french tor irc like 99% of the population was arabic-culture people
2019-04-13T22:09:06 < R2COM> europe is pretty much dead 
2019-04-13T22:09:13 < R2COM> thanks to liberal cucks
2019-04-13T22:09:38 < mawk> today I told my friends I voted for the national front
2019-04-13T22:09:40 < mawk> they were shocked
2019-04-13T22:09:50 < mawk> but after some talking I think I changed their attitude about it
2019-04-13T22:09:56 < mawk> it's like a virus
2019-04-13T22:11:00 < Steffanx> Did they call you a facist mawk?
2019-04-13T22:11:18 < mawk> they're too shy to say that to my face
2019-04-13T22:11:26 < R2COM> you misspelled fascist
2019-04-13T22:11:26 < mawk> but since they vote for far left I guess that's what they think yes
2019-04-13T22:11:39 < mawk> with my long hair I am in camouflage mode among lefties
2019-04-13T22:13:38 < Steffanx> long hair. i knew it.
2019-04-13T22:13:45 < mawk> lol
2019-04-13T22:13:58 < mawk> it's my girlfriend who asked what would I look like with long hair
2019-04-13T22:14:00 < mawk> so I let it grow
2019-04-13T22:14:10 < karlp> 0aretoo is still raging that he chose to move to america instead of europe
2019-04-13T22:14:35 < R2COM> id not ever want to move to europe
2019-04-13T22:14:55 < R2COM> the only proper country in europe is Switzerland
2019-04-13T22:15:08 < R2COM> (cuz you can buy assault rifles easily and full mags etc)
2019-04-13T22:16:14 < Steffanx> yes thats the only reason to move to a countr.
2019-04-13T22:16:15 < Steffanx> y
2019-04-13T22:16:37 < R2COM> yes it is. its not even sarcastic
2019-04-13T22:16:59 < R2COM> because it means freedom and independence
2019-04-13T22:17:44 < R2COM> that was implemented by founders of the usa
2019-04-13T22:18:18  * karlp wonders what happened to his ignore settings
2019-04-13T22:18:33 < mawk> lol
2019-04-13T22:18:50 < mawk> you can get guns in france too
2019-04-13T22:18:56 < R2COM> no you cant
2019-04-13T22:18:58 < mawk> if you're military, policeman, hunter or sports shooter
2019-04-13T22:19:03 < zyp> what's national front? your local nazi party?
2019-04-13T22:19:04 < R2COM> lol
2019-04-13T22:19:09 < mawk> and if you keep them in a safe and a doctor checks that you're not crazy
2019-04-13T22:19:23 < mawk> no zyp it's the right wing party here
2019-04-13T22:19:27 < mawk> nazi parties are forbidden
2019-04-13T22:19:38 < zyp> well, closest legal thing then
2019-04-13T22:19:40 < R2COM> safe is ok, but one gun always needs to be around for quick access
2019-04-13T22:19:42 < mawk> and I wouldn't join if it existed anyway
2019-04-13T22:19:49 < R2COM> plus you dont get proper guns in france dude
2019-04-13T22:19:57 < mawk> also R2COM you should keep the bullets and the gun in two different safes
2019-04-13T22:20:03 < mawk> if you want to laugh further
2019-04-13T22:20:06 < R2COM> its a fucking retarded rule
2019-04-13T22:20:16 < mawk> it's to prevent people from killing burglars
2019-04-13T22:20:25 < mawk> you're not supposed to do justice yourself
2019-04-13T22:20:31 < mawk> the home isn't sacred, the police can enter if they want
2019-04-13T22:20:33 < mawk> it's not america
2019-04-13T22:21:31 < mawk> the trespassing rule is stupid anyway
2019-04-13T22:21:39 < mawk> you should respond with proprtionnal use of force
2019-04-13T22:21:49 < mawk> you can't respond to a violation of home by a bullet
2019-04-13T22:21:50 < kakimir> no trespassing
2019-04-13T22:21:57 < R2COM> the only time to keep guns locked in one place is when for example i know ill have guests who have kid
2019-04-13T22:22:15 < kakimir> mawk: if it's the law you can
2019-04-13T22:22:21 < mawk> yeah if it's the law
2019-04-13T22:22:52 < R2COM> but not all america is like that
2019-04-13T22:22:55 < R2COM> in CA its same shit
2019-04-13T22:22:56 < Cracki> so... burgerland or clockmakerland, which shall it be?
2019-04-13T22:23:06 < mawk> burgerland
2019-04-13T22:23:10 < mawk> tastier
2019-04-13T22:23:17 < Cracki> nobody is eating clocks
2019-04-13T22:23:25 < mawk> also switzerland does gruyère and chocolate
2019-04-13T22:23:29 < mawk> and fondue
2019-04-13T22:23:52 < R2COM> and they have more money than jews
2019-04-13T22:23:58 < mawk> it's not especially haute cuisine but if you're not concerned about calories and shit it's the best kind of food
2019-04-13T22:24:16 < Cracki> I'm wondering where switzerland stands on some key questions... at least compared to murica
2019-04-13T22:24:34 < Cracki> you mean .ch, R2COM?
2019-04-13T22:24:41 < Cracki> how did that happen?
2019-04-13T22:26:00 < R2COM> wait i remember i was in france once
2019-04-13T22:26:11 < R2COM> fuckin long time ago
2019-04-13T22:26:13 < mawk> how could you forget that
2019-04-13T22:26:17 < zyp> I also remember being in france once, it was terrible
2019-04-13T22:26:18 < mawk> it's the best country on the face of earth
2019-04-13T22:26:20 < mawk> :(
2019-04-13T22:26:25 < R2COM> actually it was not good experience as i remember now
2019-04-13T22:27:00 < R2COM> i landed in their airport, then later on i went out, and was walking there towards something
2019-04-13T22:27:09 < zyp> I mean, I just had a transfer at CDG, didn't leave the airport, but I were in france
2019-04-13T22:27:12 < R2COM> and in front of me like 50 m ahead i saw 2 cops approaching some nigger
2019-04-13T22:27:14 < R2COM> he resisted
2019-04-13T22:27:24 < R2COM> and they sprayed some shit on him and packed him up
2019-04-13T22:27:26 < mawk> and you bought perfume in the duty free zyp 
2019-04-13T22:27:43 < zyp> don't think I visited the duty free
2019-04-13T22:27:57 < mawk> I don't think "nigger" is accepted on this network or channel R2COM 
2019-04-13T22:27:58 < R2COM> it happened quyick., and i continue walking forward... and suddenly i feel that my eyes are watering badly and burning...couldnt understand wtf is on...and then realised that its cuz that shit in air still was there
2019-04-13T22:27:59 < R2COM> lol
2019-04-13T22:27:59 < mawk> but you can always try
2019-04-13T22:28:20 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o mawk] by ChanServ
2019-04-13T22:28:51 <@mawk> I have superpowers now
2019-04-13T22:29:07 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2019-04-13T22:29:45 < Cracki> "don't say that or I will clobber you". I think that's a fine argument.
2019-04-13T22:30:46 < R2COM> i thought you are against lefty principles
2019-04-13T22:31:06 < Cracki> how is switzerland about open or concealed carry, or carry at all?
2019-04-13T22:31:34 <@mawk> yeah R2COM I'm against censorship in general
2019-04-13T22:31:39 <@mawk> but it was just general advice
2019-04-13T22:31:50 <@mawk> because I know what could happen if you continue
2019-04-13T22:31:56 < R2COM> see, the "virus" you talked about got you too
2019-04-13T22:31:59 <@mawk> lol
2019-04-13T22:32:25 <@mawk> no really it was friendly advice
2019-04-13T22:32:30 < R2COM> no
2019-04-13T22:32:32 <@mawk> I've been on irc long enough to know how to get banned
2019-04-13T22:32:37 <@mawk> and I don't want to see you banned
2019-04-13T22:35:50 < R2COM> oh
2019-04-13T22:35:54 < R2COM> and then 20 minutes after
2019-04-13T22:36:00 < R2COM> another similar one approached right to me
2019-04-13T22:36:10 < R2COM> like very close and started trying to cell phone card
2019-04-13T22:36:17 < R2COM> i was trying to explain that i dont need a fucking phone call
2019-04-13T22:36:26 <@mawk> to sell phone cards ?
2019-04-13T22:36:29 < R2COM> yes
2019-04-13T22:36:38 < R2COM> at some point i wanted to kick him in face
2019-04-13T22:36:39 <@mawk> in major train stations there's always a bunch of phone card sellers
2019-04-13T22:36:42 <@mawk> it's like folklore
2019-04-13T22:36:46 < R2COM> but then i immediately realised in fucking Paris
2019-04-13T22:36:49 <@mawk> and peanut sellers also
2019-04-13T22:36:49 < R2COM> and cant do this shit there
2019-04-13T22:37:07 <@mawk> yeah
2019-04-13T22:37:16 < R2COM> anyway
2019-04-13T22:37:24 < R2COM> all that is result of your above "censorship"
2019-04-13T22:37:28 < R2COM> enjoy 
2019-04-13T22:37:36 <@mawk> yeah I'm not convinced it's the best model
2019-04-13T22:37:42 <@mawk> it encourages secretism
2019-04-13T22:37:50 <@mawk> makes people think that if it's banned it's because it's true
2019-04-13T22:37:59 <@mawk> all the converse of what they wanted to achieve with the law
2019-04-13T22:38:02 < R2COM> yeah but you just promoted it
2019-04-13T22:38:10 < R2COM> so dont complain about it
2019-04-13T22:38:14 < R2COM> since you are part of it
2019-04-13T22:38:19 <@mawk> why ?
2019-04-13T22:38:25 <@mawk> I never intended to ban you
2019-04-13T22:38:31 <@mawk> I just spontaneously evolved a +o
2019-04-13T22:38:32 < R2COM> anyway, gtg
2019-04-13T22:38:59 < Cracki> spontaneous knocks on the door, the UK police don't want to arrest you, just have a chat
2019-04-13T22:39:06 < zyp> haha, poor misunderstood mawk 
2019-04-13T22:39:07 <@mawk> :(
2019-04-13T22:39:25 <@mawk> it's all your fault
2019-04-13T22:39:31 <@mawk> now R2COM thinks I'm left-wing
2019-04-13T22:39:37 < Cracki> but aren't you?
2019-04-13T22:40:04 < Cracki> supporting their policies is the definition of being it
2019-04-13T22:40:22 <@mawk> the confusion goes on
2019-04-13T22:40:37 < Cracki> spontaneous +o sends a clear message
2019-04-13T22:41:12 <@mawk> it's really spontaneous
2019-04-13T22:41:16 <@mawk> I have no power here
2019-04-13T22:41:24 <@mawk> it's a quantum fluctuation that added the +o
2019-04-13T22:41:26 <@mawk> I can't do it myself
2019-04-13T22:41:45 < Cracki> hm, you're right, you aren't on the access list
2019-04-13T22:42:21 < Cracki> you know, I think ops can give op. you should op him :P
2019-04-13T22:42:44 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o-o R2COM R2COM] by mawk
2019-04-13T22:48:23 < Steffanx> stop hacking freenode mawk :P
2019-04-13T22:49:01 <@mawk> :(
2019-04-13T22:49:05 <@mawk> I can't help it
2019-04-13T22:49:44 <@mawk> I'm eating poutine
2019-04-13T22:50:26 < Steffanx> What kind of bug is this anyway? Are you hosting your own "trusted" server?
2019-04-13T22:50:44 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o mawk] by ChanServ
2019-04-13T22:50:46 < mawk> for the +o ?
2019-04-13T22:50:47 < mawk> no
2019-04-13T22:50:54 < mawk> I have an insider spy
2019-04-13T22:51:02 < Steffanx> ah
2019-04-13T22:51:33 < mawk> you don't have ChanServ messages ? about opping and deopping operations
2019-04-13T22:51:51 < mawk> here for instance I know it's you who ruined my power egotrip: [21:50:41] -ChanServ- You have been deopped on ##stm32 by Steffanx
2019-04-13T22:52:14 < Steffanx> i know you know.
2019-04-13T22:52:25 < mawk> :(
2019-04-13T22:52:29 < zyp> that kinda ruins the fun
2019-04-13T22:52:34 < Steffanx> but afaik only the one who is the subject sees it
2019-04-13T22:52:45 < zyp> more fun to op anybody when they don't know who did it :p
2019-04-13T22:53:04 < mawk> maybe with /cs set ##stm32 verbose ops
2019-04-13T22:53:13 < mawk> it would disable the messages; but I'm not sure
2019-04-13T22:54:10 < Steffanx> Im disappointed though. I overestimated your skills
2019-04-13T22:54:29 < mawk> I still got +o during the split last time
2019-04-13T22:54:35 < mawk> and changed the topic
2019-04-13T22:54:51 < Steffanx> Yes there was that
2019-04-13T22:55:23 < kakimir> getting wlan usb stick to work with rasbi is fun
2019-04-13T22:55:37 < mawk> you don't have pi zero W kakimir ?
2019-04-13T22:55:40 < mawk> just pi zero ?
2019-04-13T22:55:53 < Steffanx> Since kakimir doesnt do sarcasm it must be real fun.
2019-04-13T22:57:10 < mawk> ST should add user usb to their nucleo-32
2019-04-13T22:57:20 < mawk> no wonder bluepills are popping everywhere
2019-04-13T23:03:25 < kakimir> what is pi zero?
2019-04-13T23:03:32 < mawk> small pi
2019-04-13T23:03:40 < mawk> which pi do you have ?
2019-04-13T23:03:43 < mawk> small and inexpensive pi
2019-04-13T23:08:12 < kakimir> I have big pi
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2019-04-13T23:08:36 < kakimir> I let you figure it out
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2019-04-13T23:12:07 < Steffanx> i have apple pie.
2019-04-13T23:12:56 < jpa-> we have chocolate pie in fridge but i was told it's waiting for tomorrow :/
2019-04-13T23:13:26 < Steffanx> That's like 46 minutes from now. \o/
2019-04-13T23:13:31 < jpa-> \o/
2019-04-13T23:21:28 < kakimir> so I have usb hub where is usb-eth and usb-wlan connected
2019-04-13T23:22:10 < zyp> jpa-, aww
2019-04-13T23:22:44 < zyp> I think I've got some rhubarb pie in the freezer, you can have some if you come
2019-04-13T23:23:05 < kakimir> mawk: https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/64502/install-drivers-for-rtl8812au-wireless-usb-adapter
2019-04-13T23:23:41 < mawk> but you have builtin wifi in the big pie
2019-04-13T23:24:47 < mawk> what is the issue when you try to build the driver kakimir ?
2019-04-13T23:25:10 < mawk> also the driver should be builtin the kernel if it's in mainline
2019-04-13T23:31:01 < kakimir> builtin wifi? no way
2019-04-13T23:31:18 < kakimir> there is usb connector and hdmi and that's pretty muchit
2019-04-13T23:31:53 < con3> think only the latest larger pi has wifi
2019-04-13T23:31:56 < mawk> you've got the very old pi then
2019-04-13T23:32:15 < mawk> rpi3B and 3B+ have wifi, and the tiniest rpi zero W has wifi
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2019-04-14T00:50:20 <@englishman> mawk: how was the poutine
2019-04-14T00:50:29 <@englishman> I had an amazing poutine today
2019-04-14T00:51:40 < karlp> anyone seen any appnotes on getting both an isolated and non-isolated output  out of the same convertor? I can use things like ST Viper and friends to get non-isolated, or isolated with transformers, but i'm not seeing easily how to get both without having a second path altogether
2019-04-14T00:56:02 < zyp> most obvious solution would of course be to just have two independent secondaries and tie one of them to the same ground as the primary
2019-04-14T00:56:36 < zyp> aren't there some solutions that do just that, and use the non-isolated side secondary as a reference to regulate on?
2019-04-14T00:57:37 < zyp> https://m.eet.com/media/1243662/DN559f1.gif <- this sort of shit
2019-04-14T01:01:35 < karlp> hrm, I don't know how you get to claim the isolation properly if you're using a second winding and tying it back to the other side.
2019-04-14T01:01:53 < zyp> huh?
2019-04-14T01:02:06 < karlp> I mean flyback uses the second winding to give the feedback yeah
2019-04-14T01:02:18 < zyp> yes
2019-04-14T01:02:52 < karlp> so it's somehow ok to just rely on the windings being insulated enough magically
2019-04-14T01:03:03 < karlp> but you need 6mm separation on the pcb.
2019-04-14T01:03:08 < karlp> something's not right.
2019-04-14T01:03:20 < sync> well, you can spec your xfmr so that it is insulated enough
2019-04-14T01:03:23 < zyp> what do you mean? rely on them being insulated?
2019-04-14T01:03:31 < zyp> that's a transformer spec
2019-04-14T01:03:34 < karlp> I guess if the transformer has it's windings all in the right places
2019-04-14T01:03:48 < zyp> well, I'd assume that's a big part of transformer design
2019-04-14T01:04:11 < karlp> I still don't see how to use the flyback secondary as another output though, it's tied into the feedback for the isolated side.
2019-04-14T01:05:11 < zyp> the regulator is on the primary side, the feedback winding is also grounded on the primary side
2019-04-14T01:05:33 < sync> oh neat, it does 450V
2019-04-14T01:06:13 < sync> still looking for a solution on how to feed stuff off rectified 3 phase
2019-04-14T01:06:39 < karlp> but the feedback winding isn't a regulated output, it's feedback and siwtching and shit
2019-04-14T01:06:39 < sync> but I guess I'll just use one of the regular switchers on the bottom capacitor of the dc link caps
2019-04-14T01:06:46 < sync> and a current source on the top
2019-04-14T01:07:14 < karlp> sync: what do you mean, you just pick a phase? or are you trying to take power from any phase that happens to have power on it?
2019-04-14T01:07:40 < sync> no, behind the rectifier, I want the device to be able to withstand phaseloss
2019-04-14T01:07:43 < sync> and also neutral loss
2019-04-14T01:07:53 < karlp> yeah, you want to magically pull from any phase.
2019-04-14T01:07:59 < sync> while also not being huge
2019-04-14T01:08:30 < karlp> what's the scenario where you lose only one phhhase?
2019-04-14T01:08:38 < karlp> non code installations?
2019-04-14T01:09:31 < karlp> zyp:I just don't see (and maybe I'm just being dumb) where you get another (non-isolated side) supply out of the schematics for any of the flyubackk or other isolated converters
2019-04-14T01:09:31 < sync> uhh, what has that to do with code?
2019-04-14T01:09:50 < karlp> I'm just curious what's happening that you only lose one phase?
2019-04-14T01:10:07 < sync> maybe something trips infront of the shit
2019-04-14T01:10:20 < karlp> and it's not on a three phase breaker?
2019-04-14T01:10:47 < sync> yes
2019-04-14T01:10:50 < karlp> I mean, I short a phase, the breaker goes and all three are gone,
2019-04-14T01:11:54 <@englishman> zyp:
2019-04-14T01:11:56 <@englishman> https://osmaviation.com/osm-aviation-aims-for-a-green-future/
2019-04-14T01:12:01 <@englishman> time to get that license
2019-04-14T01:12:39 < sync> not all applications have a linked breaker
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2019-04-14T01:47:16 < kakimir> so
2019-04-14T01:47:22 < kakimir> I have iw interface
2019-04-14T01:48:05 < kakimir> but wpa_supplicant.conf didn't make it connect to AP
2019-04-14T01:51:05 < sync> maybe ask in #lumix?
2019-04-14T01:51:18 < kakimir> nah
2019-04-14T01:51:42 < kakimir> you simply don't join general channels
2019-04-14T01:51:56 < kakimir> it's a shitshow
2019-04-14T01:52:00 < kakimir> every time
2019-04-14T01:53:46 < kakimir> okay rapsi config says cannot communicate with wpa supplicant
2019-04-14T01:57:10 < kakimir> should have done it with rapsi config
2019-04-14T01:57:15 < kakimir> not with boot file
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2019-04-14T02:01:53 <@englishman> time to erase everything and reinstall in typical lunix fashion
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2019-04-14T02:05:47 < kakimir> no
2019-04-14T02:05:59 < kakimir> I just need original wpa_supplicant.conf
2019-04-14T02:06:04 < kakimir> then rapsi config it
2019-04-14T02:06:16 < kakimir> instead of poking with it
2019-04-14T02:09:25 < kakimir> boot partition is fat
2019-04-14T02:09:31 < kakimir> so you can do stuff in there
2019-04-14T02:09:53 < kakimir> like place wpa_supplicant.conf and it just cp it to /etc/wpa_supplicant/
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2019-04-14T02:26:48 < jadew`> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6585595/Thousands-dads-left-shock-DIY-paternity-tests-soar.html
2019-04-14T02:27:31 < kakimir> to say these are people that suspect something
2019-04-14T02:27:48 < jadew`> and 20% are right :)
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2019-04-14T02:30:05 < jadew`> "Last week, The Mail on Sunday revealed the case of Moneysupermarket.com co-founder Richard Mason, who discovered the three sons he had raised as his own with his ex-wife Kate were not biologically his."
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2019-04-14T03:03:31 < Cracki> the patriarchy strikes again
2019-04-14T03:03:50 < Cracki> haha wat >Some websites suggest DNA can be taken from children while they are asleep, to avoid awkward questions, particularly if the children are older.
2019-04-14T03:05:49 < Cracki> just use bolt cutters on a big toe hanging off the bed?
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2019-04-14T04:00:08 < bitmask> I feel like my life is on hold, I wish I could chill out
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2019-04-14T16:38:30 < specing> ColdKeyboard: hello, can you recommend me which opamps to use? I found this appnote by Analog https://www.analog.com/en/technical-articles/op-amp-precision-positive-negative-clipper-using-lt6015-lt6016-lt6017.html
2019-04-14T16:39:07 < specing> but these (LT601*) are several times more expensive than the stm32 they would be protecting
2019-04-14T16:40:16 < specing> I'm not sure how far above 12V or below 0V the rail will go, it will get avalanches from 1500A being switched off
2019-04-14T16:42:48 < specing> well, I guess it will not go far below 0V as I won't be measuring voltage behind the n-chan enh mosfets
2019-04-14T16:44:06 < specing> What happens when opamp + input goes above opamp's power supply voltage?
2019-04-14T16:52:14 < rajkosto> clipping ?
2019-04-14T16:55:50 < specing> rajkosto: yes
2019-04-14T16:56:00 < specing> rajkosto: so it clips?
2019-04-14T17:12:35 < specing> not all opamps have diodes on input pins
2019-04-14T17:13:16 < specing> but those that do, I'm guessing the overvoltage feeds into opamp's power supply rail
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2019-04-14T17:47:45 < aandrew> have any of you used https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum before?
2019-04-14T17:47:54 < aandrew> basically pc-side util for manipulating SWO
2019-04-14T17:48:34 < Steffanx> not me, but i know karlp played around with it.
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2019-04-14T18:08:16 < dongs> looks like opensores shit
2019-04-14T18:09:03 < Steffanx> i love you too.
2019-04-14T18:13:25 < rajkosto> dont most of these not work on windows cuz missing named pipe support or some shit
2019-04-14T18:14:00 < rajkosto> for which j-link reigns supreme
2019-04-14T18:14:17 < mawk> named pipe
2019-04-14T18:14:19 < mawk> poor man's IPC
2019-04-14T18:14:25 < Steffanx> For which you paid > 300 euro/dollar?
2019-04-14T18:14:37 < mawk> but windows has named pipe also
2019-04-14T18:14:40 < mawk> I don't understand
2019-04-14T18:15:06 < rajkosto> Steffanx, my j-link was free courtesy of st
2019-04-14T18:15:31 < rajkosto> mawk, what they mean is they dont wanna bother porting to windows specific stuff as they rely on the shell pipe u
2019-04-14T18:16:32 < mawk> yeah I see
2019-04-14T18:16:38 < mawk> they use the libc fifo that's not supported on windows
2019-04-14T18:16:43 < mawk> on which you need windows api call
2019-04-14T18:16:52 < mawk> that would need at least 0.2 man-hours, unaffordable
2019-04-14T18:16:57 < Steffanx> Yes.
2019-04-14T18:17:04 < rajkosto> screw those filthy actually productive windows users
2019-04-14T18:17:17 < mawk> for once it's in that direction
2019-04-14T18:17:17 < Steffanx> Let's go stand in a circle and cry together.
2019-04-14T18:17:19 < mawk> you can't complain
2019-04-14T18:17:28 < mawk> linux is the poor kid for software support
2019-04-14T18:17:32 < mawk> so today we win
2019-04-14T18:17:46 < rajkosto> well not for embedded dev
2019-04-14T18:18:55 < Steffanx> "The firmware is for use with evaluation boards only. It is not for use with custom hardware.". didnt you do that rajkosto? :P
2019-04-14T18:19:05 < rajkosto> sue me
2019-04-14T18:19:10 < rajkosto> im not selling them
2019-04-14T18:19:25 < rajkosto> also no
2019-04-14T18:19:29 < rajkosto> you can break off the st-link from a discovery board
2019-04-14T18:19:32 < rajkosto> and run j-link firmware on it
2019-04-14T18:19:33 < rajkosto> officially
2019-04-14T18:19:47 < Steffanx> but i recall you doing some bluepill thing, or wasnt that you
2019-04-14T18:19:56 < rajkosto> yes i am running it on not-a-nucleo
2019-04-14T18:20:03 < Steffanx> So, also yes :P
2019-04-14T18:20:04 < rajkosto> i am the only one who knows this
2019-04-14T18:20:09 < rajkosto> aint hurtin nobody
2019-04-14T18:20:27 < Steffanx> You are hurting me.
2019-04-14T18:20:38 < rajkosto> this hurts you, shepard
2019-04-14T18:21:33 < rajkosto> btw do not flash j-link on st-links that you want to keep VCP/etc on
2019-04-14T18:21:54 < rajkosto> when it "reverses" the transformation it turns it into a non-VCP one
2019-04-14T18:22:10 < Steffanx> i only use my jlink clone :P
2019-04-14T18:22:29 < rajkosto> thats actually worse  because you cant use latest j-link software
2019-04-14T18:22:35 < Steffanx> Yes i can.
2019-04-14T18:22:57 < rajkosto> good for you
2019-04-14T18:23:11 < Steffanx> I know right.
2019-04-14T18:23:21 < mawk> you said you had a way of reverting to VCP enabled rajkosto 
2019-04-14T18:23:25 < rajkosto> yes
2019-04-14T18:23:28 < rajkosto> but its with hacked flasher
2019-04-14T18:23:29 < mawk> my patching the .jar installer or something
2019-04-14T18:23:32 < mawk> by
2019-04-14T18:23:32 < mawk> yes
2019-04-14T18:23:40 < mawk> I should try
2019-04-14T18:23:44 < rajkosto> its not "official"
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2019-04-14T19:20:12 < mawk> on the nucleo32 the stlink is bigger than the core itself
2019-04-14T19:20:43 < bitmask> tomorrow, tomorrow, I love ya, tomorrow, its always a dayyyyy away
2019-04-14T19:20:46 < bitmask> sorry
2019-04-14T19:22:46 < Steffanx> someone likes Annie much
2019-04-14T19:23:08 < bitmask> not really, my sister watched it a lot when we were kids
2019-04-14T19:23:15 < bitmask> I'm just excited for tomorrow
2019-04-14T19:23:39 < bitmask> on a side note, the building they used for the mansion in annie is in my town
2019-04-14T19:23:45 < bitmask> its a university building
2019-04-14T19:24:50 < Steffanx> yay i guess
2019-04-14T19:25:02 < bitmask> I think thats a valid response
2019-04-14T19:25:11 < bitmask> I'll shush now
2019-04-14T19:25:33 < bitmask> I need to figure out what I'm doing
2019-04-14T19:26:13 < bitmask> I ordered a bunch o' heatsinks, how do I store them
2019-04-14T19:26:29 < bitmask> maybe I'll use the same ESD bags and have a second box of generic things
2019-04-14T19:35:23 < bitmask> how does the world work, what percentage of entertainment do you listen to/watch that comes from the US?
2019-04-14T19:37:48 < Steffanx> Too much :P
2019-04-14T19:38:38 < Steffanx> music perhaps not, but .. movies. Too many are from the us
2019-04-14T19:42:00 < bitmask> thats what I thought, well if you aren't outputting a lot then you might as well subsidize with the best :)
2019-04-14T19:42:07 < bitmask> not that they have been great lately hah
2019-04-14T19:42:24 < aandrew> rajkosto> you can break off the st-link from a discovery board and run j-link firmware on it officially
2019-04-14T19:42:27 < aandrew> no I'm not sure that that is the case
2019-04-14T19:42:42 < aandrew> they (segger) are very clear that it's for use with the boards they're part of
2019-04-14T19:45:41 < rajkosto> but will the segger police catch you
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2019-04-14T19:50:00 < aandrew> no I'm not siding with them or anything
2019-04-14T19:50:11 < aandrew> I run like a dozen pirate win7 instances
2019-04-14T19:50:25 < aandrew> I'm just saying own up to your piracy :-)
2019-04-14T19:50:35 < rajkosto> yes i pirated the st-link bootloader anyway
2019-04-14T19:50:49 < rajkosto> as i only had v2 and wanted v2.1 to try out vcp
2019-04-14T19:52:51 < aandrew> that's actually something I'd be interested in getting a hold of
2019-04-14T19:53:02 < aandrew> dump new stlink so I can build my own jlinks
2019-04-14T19:53:05 < rajkosto> you want v3 tho
2019-04-14T19:53:12 < aandrew> yes
2019-04-14T19:53:19 < rajkosto> need to find new exploit to dump v3 then
2019-04-14T19:53:24 < aandrew> yes
2019-04-14T19:53:29 < aandrew> I just ahve no time and no real talent for that
2019-04-14T19:53:40 < mawk> didn't you just change the flash program rajkosto ?
2019-04-14T19:53:40 < aandrew> pretty busy 
2019-04-14T19:53:49 < mawk> you dumped the firmware from a running stlink v2.1 instead >?
2019-04-14T19:55:26 < aandrew> no I've not done any of that
2019-04-14T19:55:29 < aandrew> oh rajkosto 
2019-04-14T19:56:17 < mawk> yes
2019-04-14T19:57:22 < rajkosto> mawk, i followed the procedure for the v2 i had
2019-04-14T19:57:33 < rajkosto> and then just found someone elses v2.1 dump
2019-04-14T19:57:51 < rajkosto> you cant just dump the bootloader because they obviousy read protect it
2019-04-14T19:57:54 < mawk> so if you just open the .jar updater from st you won't find the v2.1 dump ?
2019-04-14T19:58:00 < mawk> it's encrypted ?
2019-04-14T19:58:04 < rajkosto> the .jar updater only has the user firmwares
2019-04-14T19:58:06 < rajkosto> not bootloaders
2019-04-14T19:58:11 < mawk> ah
2019-04-14T19:58:12 < rajkosto> bootloaders are never distributed
2019-04-14T19:58:27 < rajkosto> and the user firmwares are encrypted yes burt theres a decryptor
2019-04-14T19:58:37 < rajkosto> so someone just made a uart dumper to dump the bootloader from a custom user firmware
2019-04-14T19:58:45 < rajkosto> they probably fixed that for v3 though
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2019-04-14T19:59:59 < mawk> I see
2019-04-14T20:00:10 < mawk> so
2019-04-14T20:00:10 < rajkosto> (v3 is a completely new chip with usb2.0 HS)
2019-04-14T20:00:25 < mawk> take a v3, decap it, flash uv light on the right region of flash to flip the read protect bit
2019-04-14T20:00:40 < rajkosto> theres probably easier ways to dump via software 
2019-04-14T20:00:46 < rajkosto> just gotta find exploit
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2019-04-14T20:05:02 < rajkosto> (unless the new chip added programmable area hiding from user mode programs)
2019-04-14T20:07:32 < mawk> « I used procyon decompiler, reconstructed function calls and after a while was able to decrypt the firmware binary. Encryption key was “best performance”. »
2019-04-14T20:07:32 < mawk> lol
2019-04-14T20:07:39 < mawk> encryption key of the firmware of the .jar flash update
2019-04-14T20:08:47 < rajkosto> the secret key for a CMAC in some online handshake protocol i reversed ended up being "best attempt at security" but l33tized and
2019-04-14T20:11:33 < ub|k> on gdb, should this work to set the S5CR registry?
2019-04-14T20:11:36 < ub|k> set {long long}0x40026088 = 0x0D000000
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2019-04-14T20:12:31 < zyp> I normally do something like this: set variable *(uint32_t*)0x40026088 = 0x0d000000
2019-04-14T20:12:51 < zyp> (assuming address and value is what you want)
2019-04-14T20:13:53 < ub|k> zyp: the thing is that if I then do `x /4wx 0x40026088` it's still at zero :|
2019-04-14T20:14:16 < mawk> uint32_t is 2w no ?
2019-04-14T20:14:20 < zyp> what register did you say this were?
2019-04-14T20:14:25 < mawk> not 4w
2019-04-14T20:14:36 < ub|k> sure, anyway everything is at zero
2019-04-14T20:15:01 < ub|k> zyp: DMA_S5CR
2019-04-14T20:15:07 < zyp> I'm not sure what you refer to by S5CR, but this looks like a peripheral address, so you probably need to turn it on in RCC
2019-04-14T20:15:18 < ub|k> zyp: oooh
2019-04-14T20:15:31 < ub|k> riight. may have forgotten about that
2019-04-14T20:15:34 < ub|k> thanks!
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2019-04-14T20:22:49 < ub|k> ok, that solved it, zyp, thanks!
2019-04-14T20:23:00 < ub|k> dumb mistake
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2019-04-14T20:25:33 < zyp> we've all made it :)
2019-04-14T20:38:32 < karlp> sync: tps7a78 has an app note on using it with three phase fyi
2019-04-14T20:39:37 < zyp> my impression is that if you wanna do three phase with PFC you might as well just do three independent regulators feeding a common rail
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2019-04-14T20:52:14 < rajkosto> but then you dont have a gurantee the 3 regulators are balanced out
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2019-04-14T21:20:37 < zyp> rajkosto, why not? naturally you'd design them to balance out
2019-04-14T21:22:10 < sync> oh interesting karlp 
2019-04-14T21:28:16 < rajkosto> well 3 phase are designed so that each one fires at a different time and also maybe current balance between each other, the "fire at different time" means you need smaller input capacitance
2019-04-14T21:30:57 < rajkosto> just wiring 3 psus together isnt the same 
2019-04-14T21:32:53 < bitmask> whats the best pro spice simulator stuff
2019-04-14T21:33:38 < qyx> karlp: tps7a78 O_o thx
2019-04-14T21:39:51 < mawk> is my drawing understandable for someone with no maths background ? https://pix.watch/_5gtvv/I2ua_2.jpeg
2019-04-14T21:40:05 < mawk> I'm looking for a proof of 1+2+3+...+n = n(n+1)/2 for the most stupid possible
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2019-04-14T21:47:19 < mawk> I found a simpler one: https://pix.watch/9d_Qr3/QKOtcN.jpeg
2019-04-14T21:52:20 < R2COM> jebus why watch winders are so expensive
2019-04-14T21:54:35 < Steffanx> 40 euro bucks is cheap...
2019-04-14T21:54:51 < Steffanx> or does your apple watch require a special "winder"?
2019-04-14T22:00:02 < qyx> neither mouser nor farnell have those 230Vac->DC LDOs
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2019-04-14T22:14:55 < mawk> it wouldn't be low
2019-04-14T22:14:58 < mawk> dropout
2019-04-14T22:27:53 < Cracki> mawk, is induction not good enough for that proof?
2019-04-14T22:28:17 < Cracki> proof by picture, some of our profs are allowed to do that
2019-04-14T22:29:07 < mawk> yeah that proof would be good enough
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2019-04-14T22:41:38 < BrainDamage> mawk: I've explained it to people by doing it with 0-100, and using pairs
2019-04-14T22:41:50 < mawk> yeah I tried that too
2019-04-14T22:41:58 < BrainDamage> 100 + 0 = 100, 99+1 = 100, etc etc, and the one left unpaired is 50
2019-04-14T22:42:00 < mawk> but the guy doesn't super smart
2019-04-14T22:42:04 < mawk> the gauss way according to the legend
2019-04-14T22:42:05 < BrainDamage> so 50*100 + 50
2019-04-14T22:42:42 < mawk> to avoid the alone pair you can double the sum
2019-04-14T22:42:53 < mawk> 1+2+3+...+100 // 100+99+...+3+2+1
2019-04-14T22:43:39 < BrainDamage> also, it's much easier to read if you write it as n*n/2 + n/2
2019-04-14T22:44:51 < mawk> right
2019-04-14T22:50:08 < catphish> i'm thinking about audio projects again, i have a quick question, if i want to take analog audio input, process it, and output analog audio again, should i really be looking at a single CODEC IC, or separate ADC and DACs? or does it really not matter much? i'll likely just go with whichever will be cheaper and require the simplest BOM, any thoughts?
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2019-04-14T22:55:37 < ub|k> hm... is it possible to have DMA copy for instance 16-bit half-words to a 32-bit registry, padding them with zeros?
2019-04-14T22:55:43 < ub|k> or does it always pack them?
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2019-04-14T22:58:43 < karlp> (funny story of the day, that tps7a78 was advertised to me.... on facebook!)
2019-04-14T23:02:05 < karlp> rajkosto: stop spounting garbage about swo tools if yoy don't know
2019-04-14T23:02:16 < karlp> you come across as a segger shill
2019-04-14T23:02:35 < rajkosto> ok tell me how to even just output strings from openocd
2019-04-14T23:02:37 < rajkosto> from swo
2019-04-14T23:02:45 < rajkosto> it dumps the stuff into a file that i cant realtime process or show
2019-04-14T23:03:03 < rajkosto> i would rather use openocd btw the j-link gdb is sometimes fucky
2019-04-14T23:09:44 < Cracki> crickets
2019-04-14T23:10:38 < Cracki> well how about you point it to a named pipe. you can tail the file, even if it's not all that realtime.
2019-04-14T23:10:45 < Cracki> +or
2019-04-14T23:10:58 < rajkosto> if openocd had a swo decoder and just output it to a telnet server like j-link does it'd be perfect
2019-04-14T23:11:18 < rajkosto> but its out of scope for them so only output to a file is possible
2019-04-14T23:11:40 < Cracki> r u on a unix? or windows?
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2019-04-14T23:13:26 < rajkosto> windows obviously
2019-04-14T23:13:56 < Cracki> k then, maybe you can pick up new data with tail (get msys2) and pipe it into socat
2019-04-14T23:14:14 < Cracki> ugly, yes
2019-04-14T23:14:15 < rajkosto> you need to parse it first
2019-04-14T23:14:29 < Cracki> this way you can put whatever parser in between
2019-04-14T23:15:06 < Cracki> assuming whatever parser wants pipe input, not file input
2019-04-14T23:16:26 < Cracki> where's some python script that appears to "tail -f" the file http://false.ekta.is/2013/12/using-swoswv-streaming-data-with-stlink-under-linux-part-2/
2019-04-14T23:16:56 < Steffanx> imagine that being karlp's website :P
2019-04-14T23:17:34 < Cracki> -w
2019-04-14T23:22:48 < qyx> karlp: it seems to be unobtainable though
2019-04-14T23:24:00 < karlp> oocd can save the swo binary to a file, you can also just read it with a separate uart, though that's a pain.
2019-04-14T23:24:27 < karlp> processing it, there's a binary in contrib that's ~ok, there's libswo/swodec, there's orbuculum, there's a few other things that process it.
2019-04-14T23:25:02 < karlp> I kinda like orbuculum and orbcat these days, becauyse I can remux it as I see fit.
2019-04-14T23:25:34 < karlp> that thing I wrote predates some of these, I wouldn't recommend it these days. (I don't use it mysefl)
2019-04-14T23:29:17 < rajkosto> yes all on linux great
2019-04-14T23:30:33 < qyx> you should use pro tools on win
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2019-04-14T23:31:54 < karlp> same tools work on windows dude.
2019-04-14T23:32:06 < karlp> your named pipe bullshiht is just fud and shitposting.
2019-04-14T23:37:38 < rajkosto> ok how do i compile orbiculum for windows
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2019-04-14T23:43:37 < karlp> follow their directions, I'm not your team lead.
2019-04-14T23:43:48 < karlp> I only asked you to stop shitposting
2019-04-14T23:47:30 < karlp> qyx: problem with taht tps7a78 ting is that it still needs a series with the mains X capacitor
2019-04-14T23:47:57 < karlp> granted it needs to be 1/4 the size, but series rated X capacitors are much less common that across the mains X capacitors
2019-04-14T23:48:10 < karlp> and they're still so fucking big.
2019-04-14T23:50:19 < karlp> still, smaller is smaller I guess.
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--- Day changed Mon Apr 15 2019
2019-04-15T00:02:26 < qyx> whats the difference between them
2019-04-15T00:02:47 < qyx> both are x1/x2, is it just current handling capability?
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2019-04-15T00:38:58 < qyx> ok, is there anything which would prevent a typical toroid inductor to be used as a current transformer?
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2019-04-15T00:44:53 < qyx> it doesn't look that trivial
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2019-04-15T00:57:06 < BrainDamage> yes, the fact that the magnetic field is oriented wrong for the normal toroid windings
2019-04-15T00:58:28 < qyx> how? if I make a single turn of primary an take the inductor winding as a secondary
2019-04-15T00:58:54 < qyx> it is the same orientation as a two winding inductor
2019-04-15T00:59:37 < BrainDamage> nvm, I'm a moron, I fucked up the third hand rule for the wire's magnetic field
2019-04-15T00:59:44 < BrainDamage> it's aligned the same, so it should work
2019-04-15T01:00:53 < qyx> but there are things as saturating the core, bad core material, nonlimearity and many othjers it seems
2019-04-15T01:01:37 < qyx> also ferrite is not suitable for 50Hz internet says
2019-04-15T01:02:56 < BrainDamage> as long as you don't saturate it, ferrite is fine at 50Hz
2019-04-15T01:04:39 < BrainDamage> silicon steel saturates at ~1T, while ferrites ~0.2-0.4
2019-04-15T01:04:46 < kakimir> tig welding machine is workings
2019-04-15T01:04:56 < BrainDamage> which is why steel is used for low freq transformers
2019-04-15T01:05:23 < BrainDamage> in terms of linearity and losses, it should be better than steel, still provided you stay within linear limits
2019-04-15T01:06:04 < qyx> probably I will just try and see
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2019-04-15T01:16:43 < bitmask> aww man, 75 year old killed by his bird...
2019-04-15T01:16:53 < bitmask> what a way to die
2019-04-15T01:18:09 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MSxFcwJ3FlpwbhFIyT_EI7GZ-AE4ywm2/view?usp=sharing "debugging" tig welder
2019-04-15T01:24:46 < Cracki> I expected to see "bugs"
2019-04-15T01:25:38 < kakimir> you see
2019-04-15T01:26:00 < kakimir> to92, dip14, dip8 etc.
2019-04-15T01:26:06 < kakimir> different shapes and sizes
2019-04-15T01:28:10 < Cracki> I hope none are squashed
2019-04-15T01:30:19 < karlp> qyx: some x rated caps mention in a footnote "not rated for in series with the mains usage" and .... that is born out in practise..... (they slowly lose capacitance over time and then fail)
2019-04-15T01:36:51 < kakimir> 741 needed replacement
2019-04-15T01:37:15 < kakimir> luckily I ordered like all the silicon for one of the boards
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2019-04-15T02:12:47 < Cracki> I'm curious... someone said you can have 240 volts in the USA. roughly what's involved in getting that?
2019-04-15T02:13:35 < kakimir> both sides of the split phase
2019-04-15T02:13:59 < rajkosto> you can tap 2 phases instead of phase and neutral
2019-04-15T02:14:01 < Cracki> uh, so they have 2-phase, not 3-phase over there?
2019-04-15T02:14:22 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-15T02:14:25 < Cracki> interesting
2019-04-15T02:14:30 < rajkosto> they even have a 240v plug and they put them in places where high wattage consumers are sometimes
2019-04-15T02:14:52 < Cracki> I was just wondering that... washing machine and stuff, in europe you basically plug it in
2019-04-15T02:15:23 < kakimir> in US - 240V is for operating boiler and AC unit
2019-04-15T02:15:24 < Cracki> a murican would need thicker wiring than us or more voltage
2019-04-15T02:15:29 < Cracki> hmhm
2019-04-15T02:15:44 < rajkosto> 120V murikan plugs are limtied to 1500W usually
2019-04-15T02:15:50 < kakimir> in other places it's ok for phone charger
2019-04-15T02:16:07 < Cracki> sounds like chinesium
2019-04-15T02:16:18 < kakimir> I bet it's because of appliance wiring
2019-04-15T02:16:23 < kakimir> and fusing
2019-04-15T02:16:32 < kakimir> 16Amps
2019-04-15T02:16:43 < kakimir> or so
2019-04-15T02:17:22 < kakimir> there is standards for currents in applicance conductors
2019-04-15T02:18:31 < kakimir> so if you expect reasonable wire gauge and pvc insulator you can get only so many amps
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2019-04-15T02:59:57 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b9cHZMjXR1M-emBGU0TISjT_rNfm07DL/view?usp=sharing injectors might need some adjustment
2019-04-15T03:13:17 < Cracki> are those milligrams per... Henry?
2019-04-15T03:20:28 < kakimir> is there a problem about mixing mass units and inductance units?
2019-04-15T03:20:33 < kakimir> str = stroke
2019-04-15T03:21:29 < specing> Okay, so stm32 ADC does have clipping diodes on every input
2019-04-15T03:24:03 < Cracki> milligrams per henry... maybe if you had a kind of plasma but that sounds too scientific to show up in a GUI that looks like _that_
2019-04-15T03:25:39 < Cracki> 1 mg/H = 10^-6 (As/m)^2
2019-04-15T03:26:06 < kakimir> interesting
2019-04-15T03:26:23 < Cracki> or A / (m/s), squared
2019-04-15T03:26:33 < Cracki> still, I think H is something else in the context of combustion motors
2019-04-15T03:26:42 < kakimir> specing: ye? just follow injection current spec or whatever it's called
2019-04-15T03:27:11 < kakimir> there are ratings for voltage
2019-04-15T03:27:23 < kakimir> and maximum current or multiple currents
2019-04-15T03:28:19 < specing> looks like 5 mA is the maximum for stm32f072
2019-04-15T03:28:46 < specing> both in and out
2019-04-15T03:32:38 < kakimir> some have like different thresholds and times per different thresholds
2019-04-15T03:33:10 < kakimir> so that when you know how much you stress the pin you know how long the operational life of the chip will be
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2019-04-15T03:36:10 < specing> Many opamps can supply more than 5mA ... should I put a 1kohm resistor behind it? Should I add another precision clipper behind it? Like in https://www.analog.com/en/technical-articles/op-amp-precision-positive-negative-clipper-using-lt6015-lt6016-lt6017.html ?
2019-04-15T03:37:24 < kakimir> you should ask - when you should not put series resistor
2019-04-15T03:40:49 < specing> kakimir: it limits current going into the pin and thus makes the ADC cap raise/lower voltage slower
2019-04-15T03:41:26 < kakimir> adc cap is pF range
2019-04-15T03:41:39 < specing> yes, 8 pF iirc
2019-04-15T03:41:39 < kakimir> right?
2019-04-15T03:42:00 < kakimir> you can calculate or simulate that
2019-04-15T03:42:23 < kakimir> 0ohms or 1kohms make no meaningful difference
2019-04-15T03:43:06 < kakimir> you should concider making that series resistor into RC filter too
2019-04-15T03:43:09 < specing> right, need only 26 uA of current to "fill it" in a microsecond
2019-04-15T03:43:45 < kakimir> for a microsecond?
2019-04-15T03:43:49 < specing> kakimir: I was told to use opamp and in that case, the opamp's output would not need filtering
2019-04-15T03:44:06 < specing> kakimir: yes
2019-04-15T03:44:08 < kakimir> maybe
2019-04-15T03:44:12 < specing> 8e-12 * 3.3 / 0.000001
2019-04-15T03:45:15 < kakimir> why you want to avoid filtering?
2019-04-15T03:45:31 < kakimir> is opamp used as a buffer?
2019-04-15T03:45:40 < bitmask> ready for GoT?
2019-04-15T03:45:46 < kakimir> active filtering circuit?
2019-04-15T03:45:52 < specing> both as a buffer and to protect the adc pin
2019-04-15T03:46:11 < specing> a buffer for a high-resistance voltage divider (megaohm range)
2019-04-15T03:46:20 < specing> and protection against input spikes
2019-04-15T03:47:03 < kakimir> megaohms ok
2019-04-15T03:47:10 < kakimir> what input voltage?
2019-04-15T03:47:35 < kakimir> http://jahonen.kapsi.fi/Electronics/ResOptimizer/
2019-04-15T03:47:36 < specing> 12V (car battery), but inductive kickback due to 1500A being switched off will be strong
2019-04-15T03:47:54 < kakimir> 1500A?
2019-04-15T03:47:56 < kakimir> starter?
2019-04-15T03:48:03 < specing> kakimir: spot welder
2019-04-15T03:48:16 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-15T03:48:34 < kakimir> use anti-surge resistors
2019-04-15T03:48:37 < kakimir> big ones
2019-04-15T03:48:56 < specing> Never heard of anti-surge resistors
2019-04-15T03:49:03 < specing> I will be using 3kW TVS diodes, though
2019-04-15T03:49:30 < kakimir> if you use normal resistors go to big package sizes
2019-04-15T03:49:41 < kakimir> not 0402
2019-04-15T03:51:07 < specing> I was planning to use THT ones
2019-04-15T03:51:17 < kakimir> mkay
2019-04-15T03:51:37 < specing> because I was not planning on actually making a PCB in the first place
2019-04-15T03:51:43 < specing> just perf board
2019-04-15T03:51:56 < kakimir> wire coil ones have high inductance you need to remember
2019-04-15T03:52:10 < specing> I know, I have metal film ones
2019-04-15T03:52:15 < kakimir> standard THT small resistor has dielectric strength of something like 150V?
2019-04-15T03:52:43 < specing> This wont be the first car battery spot welder, some people already measured stuff and it is definetely not at 150V
2019-04-15T03:52:56 < specing> but it is >20V 
2019-04-15T03:53:17 < specing> I calculated there to be about 1 joule of inductive energy in a 1m loop of 10mm^2 wire
2019-04-15T03:54:12 < specing> but tales of blowing TVS diodes and (before they were used, MOSFETs) are common
2019-04-15T03:55:19 < specing> (I'm not sure if the TVS diodes blew during normal operation or just when connecting probes to different potentials)
2019-04-15T04:07:27 < dongs> hm is TIM6 not present on F6
2019-04-15T04:07:30 < dongs> hm is TIM6 not present on F9
2019-04-15T04:07:32 < dongs> ERR F0 fuck
2019-04-15T04:08:09 < dongs> i used it for delay and on debug none of the registers are set even after powering it up
2019-04-15T04:08:45 < dongs> oh, apparently not in 040
2019-04-15T04:08:47 < dongs> wtf
2019-04-15T04:10:09 < mawk> with the ST HAL when I use a timer just for making delays it makes an interrupt right after I enable it
2019-04-15T04:10:15 < mawk> is that really required
2019-04-15T04:10:21 < ColdKeyboard> Hey, what would be the easies/proper way of parsing a buffer that has ascii bytes 90:0:30:42 and parsing those into integer values on stm side?
2019-04-15T04:11:03 < dongs> you could strtok() it i guess, or loop through while its digit + count up and commit on each :, or use sscanf() etc
2019-04-15T04:11:07 < dongs> literally 100s of ways
2019-04-15T04:11:30 < mawk> remember you have a libc ColdKeyboard 
2019-04-15T04:11:39 < mawk> that mostly works out of the box
2019-04-15T04:11:52 < ColdKeyboard> mawk: libc? I'll take a look
2019-04-15T04:11:57 < mawk> yes
2019-04-15T04:12:08 < mawk> if you use the ARM gcc toolchain libc is linked automatically
2019-04-15T04:12:13 < mawk> you can do what dongs said
2019-04-15T04:12:20 < ColdKeyboard> noice! :)
2019-04-15T04:13:15 < ColdKeyboard> Damn... I totally forgot about strtok()
2019-04-15T04:13:22 < ColdKeyboard> I'll give it a try now
2019-04-15T04:13:37 < mawk> you're using freertos ? or bare baremetal
2019-04-15T04:13:51 < mawk> freertos or any rtos
2019-04-15T04:14:06 < mawk> if you're on baremetal strtok will work out of the box I guess
2019-04-15T04:14:24 < mawk> otherwise it will probably do malloc calls which may or may not place nice, then you can use strtok_r which I believe does no dynamic allocation
2019-04-15T04:14:43 < mawk> but even if malloc worked if you strtok from different IRQ handlers it will be a mess, just use strtok_r
2019-04-15T04:15:04 < dongs> strtok doesnt alloc anything
2019-04-15T04:15:08 < dongs> it modifies the string tho
2019-04-15T04:15:29 < mawk> right
2019-04-15T04:15:39 < mawk> but it has global state also
2019-04-15T04:15:41 < dongs> i woudlnt really bother with any of that just loop while != ':', maintain a 'current_digit' and *= 10 it on each incr of scan pointer
2019-04-15T04:15:52 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-15T04:16:10 < dongs> then on : commit current_digit to whatever array/shit of things
2019-04-15T04:16:18 < dongs> and clear it back up for next scan
2019-04-15T04:16:25 < dongs> depending how much error checking you want to do etc.
2019-04-15T04:16:32 < dongs> and whether shit is decimal or hex or whatever
2019-04-15T04:16:44 < dongs> there's also stroul type shit
2019-04-15T04:17:23 < ColdKeyboard> Baremetal
2019-04-15T04:17:40 < dongs> you could start with ptr, scan until :, then pass ptr+end to stroul
2019-04-15T04:17:47 < mawk> strtoul is so annoying to use, they assume you always have stuff following your number so it doesn't error out if you have stuff following the number
2019-04-15T04:17:50 < mawk> you have to check yourself
2019-04-15T04:17:55 < dongs> wait no, strtoul will return the end when it hits :
2019-04-15T04:17:58 < dongs> so even better.
2019-04-15T04:18:01 < mawk> yes
2019-04-15T04:18:24 < dongs> so for libc-based stuff i'd proly use that if i was lazy to write a raw loop
2019-04-15T04:18:30 < specing> What should I search for in the datasheet if I want to know how low a voltage can be to still register as a logic '1'?
2019-04-15T04:18:51 < dongs> specing: VIH/VIL
2019-04-15T04:19:07 < ColdKeyboard> What's wrong with this example (I'm compiling it on my PC before spinning up on STM) -> https://pastebin.com/dRwURx8d
2019-04-15T04:19:24 < ColdKeyboard> The output is just "Start " and that's it
2019-04-15T04:19:31 < specing> dongs: thanks
2019-04-15T04:19:49 < dongs> ColdKeyboard: ? whjat are you trying to achieve tehre
2019-04-15T04:19:56 < dongs> the code makes no sense
2019-04-15T04:20:07 < ColdKeyboard> dongs: Find the location of '[' and ']' characters in the strgin
2019-04-15T04:20:09 < ColdKeyboard> *string
2019-04-15T04:20:10 < mawk> (const char *)'['
2019-04-15T04:20:13 < mawk> what is this
2019-04-15T04:20:20 < mawk> '' is char "" is char []
2019-04-15T04:20:51 < mawk> here you're casting [ which is 0x5B to a pointer
2019-04-15T04:20:54 < mawk> eg (char *)0x5B
2019-04-15T04:20:56 < dongs> i mean, i THINK hes trying to do strchr
2019-04-15T04:20:57 < ColdKeyboard> Lol, brainfart... strtstr takes strings
2019-04-15T04:20:58 < mawk> that makes no sense
2019-04-15T04:21:09 < dongs> with strstr and casting away teh warning
2019-04-15T04:21:11 < ColdKeyboard> lol, you are absolutely right I overlooked that part
2019-04-15T04:21:14 < dongs> which makes it not work of course
2019-04-15T04:21:47 < mawk> strchr is enough yes ColdKeyboard for a single char
2019-04-15T04:23:02 < ColdKeyboard> mawk: I totally brainfarted on strstr instead of strchr... :)
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2019-04-15T04:24:34 < mawk> C should have more strict warnings
2019-04-15T04:25:23 < ColdKeyboard> Or users who are aware of what they are trying to do...
2019-04-15T04:34:29 < mawk> there's are only a few reasons to do such type punning
2019-04-15T04:34:33 < mawk> C++ forbids it for instance
2019-04-15T04:34:40 < mawk> you have to pass through void * to make horrible things like this
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2019-04-15T04:46:06 < rajkosto> just use memmem instead
2019-04-15T04:46:35 < mawk> that's too performant
2019-04-15T04:46:39 < mawk> you don't want to be too performant
2019-04-15T04:46:48 < mawk> keep a little folklore in the code
2019-04-15T04:47:38 < mawk> half of the time when I program using st-flash the board is stuck in 0x1fff3f36 which is system memory
2019-04-15T04:47:44 < mawk> so that's ST bootloader right
2019-04-15T04:47:51 < dongs> yep
2019-04-15T04:47:56 < dongs> did you leave boot1 floating by mistake
2019-04-15T04:48:05 < dongs> PB2? iirc
2019-04-15T04:48:19 < mawk> it's a nucleo32 board, there's no jumper for boot0/boot1 no ?
2019-04-15T04:48:30 < dongs> well depends which nucleo
2019-04-15T04:48:39 < dongs> some have BOOT1 on a pin, some its in option bytes
2019-04-15T04:48:49 < dongs> anyway, shit ending up in sysmem is either boot0 or boot1 floating
2019-04-15T04:48:51 < dongs> and random shit happening
2019-04-15T04:49:59 < Cracki> ColdKeyboard, it would be smart to STOP casting so much
2019-04-15T04:52:51 < mawk> BOOT0 pin isn't exposed on the board, also there's a bunch of BOOTn in option bytes: nBOOT0 nBOOT1 nSWBOOT0, and also a check if main flash is empty or not
2019-04-15T04:53:10 < dongs> option bytes ignore, those don't float randomly
2019-04-15T04:53:18 < dongs> you sure boot0 isn't "exposed"?
2019-04-15T04:53:20 < dongs> what chip is it
2019-04-15T04:53:24 < mawk> it's pin PH3
2019-04-15T04:53:28 < mawk> L432KC
2019-04-15T04:53:30 < dongs> for sure boot0 must exist on every stm and be pulled down
2019-04-15T04:53:54 < mawk> yeah I mean  it's pulled down on the nucleo design, but not exposed in the 2.54mm pins on the board
2019-04-15T04:54:07 < dongs> Table 6 - Boot modes (chapter 2.6, Boot configuration) in the Reference manual, shows how to select system memory as boot area (i.e. how to start the bootloader on reset). Based on that information it seems that you'll need to disconnect the BOOT0 pin from GND by opening the solder bridge SB12 (see Figure 10, MCU, in the User Manual for STM32 Nucleo-32 boards) before each software update and then close it 
2019-04-15T04:54:13 < dongs> once you have finished.
2019-04-15T04:54:14 < dongs> ok, so looks like its tied to ground by default
2019-04-15T04:54:19 < dongs> so that isnt the problem either
2019-04-15T04:54:21 < dongs> your code is just shit then
2019-04-15T04:54:28 < mawk> lol
2019-04-15T04:54:45 < mawk> yeah but it's a big coincidence, a jump right in the middle of the st code
2019-04-15T04:54:51 < mawk> maybe I should check the option bytes, I've not changed them
2019-04-15T04:55:02 < dongs> if you didnt change then its fine
2019-04-15T04:55:15 < dongs> that shit only changes bootmemory anyway
2019-04-15T04:55:19 < dongs> like boot from flash or ram or ??
2019-04-15T04:55:36 < dongs> and only matters if boot0 is not low anyway
2019-04-15T04:56:25 < mawk> if boot0 is not low or nSWBOOT0 is 0
2019-04-15T04:56:32 < mawk> it's the option bit to disable check of physical BOOT0
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2019-04-15T05:04:53 < dongs> ya i donno how the shit works on some newer stuff
2019-04-15T05:05:14 < dongs> i know on 401 if you left boot1 floating and used boot0 for rom bootloader, it would randomly fail to enter it cuz it wuld try booting from ram
2019-04-15T05:05:35 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-15T05:07:01 < aandrew> hm, does stm32f7 have an ethernet rom bootloader?
2019-04-15T05:07:13 < dongs> donno look at AN2606 or whaetver
2019-04-15T05:07:27 < mawk> option byte is 0xfffff8aa while prod value is supposed to be 0xffeff8aa
2019-04-15T05:07:36 < mawk> how likely am I to brick things if I put bad things in option byte
2019-04-15T05:07:55 < dongs> how did you even manage to put anything i nit
2019-04-15T05:08:04 < mawk> it was like that when I got it
2019-04-15T05:08:11 < mawk> customized for usage on nucleo I guess
2019-04-15T05:08:47 < mawk> what happens if I change the option bytes ? the ST bootloader can't go away right ?
2019-04-15T05:09:33 < dongs> nah not going away
2019-04-15T05:10:24 < dongs> ugh trhe fuck is a .vsd file
2019-04-15T05:10:56 < dongs> oh visio the fuck
2019-04-15T05:12:48 < dongs> geez installing visio viewer in vm
2019-04-15T05:13:15 < aandrew> nope doesn't look like it. I'll have to resurrect one of my old bootloaders
2019-04-15T05:14:06 < mawk> I have the sexiest board of you all
2019-04-15T05:14:10 < mawk> h743ZI
2019-04-15T05:16:13 < mawk> the bit that's flipped is a bit in the "reserved" section dongs so it's nothing
2019-04-15T05:16:23 < mawk> option byte is in factory conf
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2019-04-15T05:37:00 < mawk> board isn't happy that I modify the option byte
2019-04-15T05:37:05 < mawk> is there a magical procedure ?
2019-04-15T05:37:09 < mawk> it does a hardfault
2019-04-15T05:37:16 < mawk> I should lower protection level first maybe ?
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2019-04-15T05:43:07 < mawk> also code seems fine when I boot I do a full on reset, it's with a software reset through st-flash that it fails
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2019-04-15T05:56:46 < NVIRQ> Is there something more special going on with vector tables that I don't see? Thinking ".word     TIM6_DAC_IRQHandler"... Can I not create another later named ".word     TIM6_IRQHandler"?
2019-04-15T05:57:19 < NVIRQ> of course, I also set the .weak XXX_IRQHandler
2019-04-15T05:58:03 < NVIRQ> ... and HAL_NVIC_SetPriority and HAL_NVIC_EnableIRQ for the # position of that .word.
2019-04-15T05:58:38 < NVIRQ> For whatever reason, I can't get the IRQHandler to be called.
2019-04-15T06:00:10 < dongs> is TIM6 actualyl wroking
2019-04-15T06:00:30 < NVIRQ> Yup, if I test TIM6_DAC_IRQHandler, it works fine.
2019-04-15T06:01:18 < dongs> so waht is the question?
2019-04-15T06:01:23 < dongs> are you trying to rename irq vector names?
2019-04-15T06:01:32 < NVIRQ> Basically yeah.
2019-04-15T06:01:35 < dongs> why
2019-04-15T06:01:53 < dongs> they're in various places in CMSIS and those names are standard
2019-04-15T06:02:42 < NVIRQ> The why isn't so much important, but take for example TIM8_BRK_TIM12_IRQHandler. Here, I think that 2 timers are involved in some way. But say I only want to use each separately.
2019-04-15T06:03:29 < bitmask> who's getting a job tomorrow? 
2019-04-15T06:03:31 < bitmask> << THIS GUY
2019-04-15T06:03:38 < bitmask> ok i'm done
2019-04-15T06:04:01 < dongs> NVIRQ: whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.
2019-04-15T06:04:02 < NVIRQ> "bitmask".... "<<". If that was the joke, I think I got it. :)
2019-04-15T06:04:03 < dongs> you do understand
2019-04-15T06:04:07 < dongs> these ARE shared IRQ lines right?
2019-04-15T06:04:13 < dongs> beacuse this is a low-pin/low-whatever package
2019-04-15T06:04:19 < dongs> you get the same IRQ for DAC or TIM6
2019-04-15T06:04:27 < dongs> and you check the actual IT bit
2019-04-15T06:04:30 < dongs> to see which one to handle
2019-04-15T06:04:34 < dongs> this is basically same shit as EXTI
2019-04-15T06:04:43 < dongs> when you have EXTI0, EXTI1, EXTI5-10 or whatever
2019-04-15T06:05:22 < NVIRQ> Nope. I didn't "understand". I'll look into it though.
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2019-04-15T06:14:29 < NVIRQ> Oh right, never mind the DAC/TIM6. Let's go back to that TIM8_BRK_TIM12_IRQHandler example... or TIM1_UP_TIM10_IRQHandler or TIM8_UP_TIM13_IRQHandler and so on. Let's say I want to use TIM8 and TIM12 and TIM13...
2019-04-15T06:14:47 < dongs> yeah so...
2019-04-15T06:14:50 < dongs> whats the question
2019-04-15T06:15:24 < NVIRQ> Hmmm, actually thinking it while typing it, it seems like it'd be fine... Here's my thinking...
2019-04-15T06:16:37 < NVIRQ> TIM8_BRK_TIM12_IRQHandler is really just a number, independent of what's shown in the name. So if I want to use TIM8, I can just use TIM8_BRK_TIM12_IRQHandler and TIM13, TIM8_UP_TIM13_IRQHandler and TIM14, TIM8_TRG_COM_TIM14_IRQHandler.
2019-04-15T06:16:43 < NVIRQ> Sound about right?
2019-04-15T06:16:56 < dongs> no, you're an autistic fuck. vector naems are verboten from renaming.
2019-04-15T06:17:04 < NVIRQ> Or is there actual internal linkage?
2019-04-15T06:17:11 < dongs> enable the fucking vector, enable the IT bit in TIM8, receive IRQs for that TIM8 shit only
2019-04-15T06:17:17 < NVIRQ> My goodness. I've really set you off didn't I?
2019-04-15T06:17:35 < dongs> if you happen to use TIM8 BRK and TIM12_IRQ at same time, check which bit is set at IRQentry and acta ccordingly
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2019-04-15T06:38:57 < dongs> hmm i dont understand this fucking flowchart at all
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2019-04-15T07:16:38 < dongs> wow, my i2c on f0 worked out of the box
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2019-04-15T09:02:22 < dongs> anyone familiar with 8051
2019-04-15T09:02:27 < dongs> what does such firmware usually start with
2019-04-15T09:02:32 < dongs> some kinda irq/jump tables?
2019-04-15T09:03:40 < dongs> https://onlinedisassembler.com/static/home/index.html
2019-04-15T09:03:46 < dongs> click [ Start Disassembling ]
2019-04-15T09:03:50 < dongs> Server Error (500)
2019-04-15T09:03:52 < dongs> gg
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2019-04-15T09:43:42 < dongs> https://zano.org/ a new zano
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2019-04-15T09:50:21 < NVIRQ> curious... are you the same 4channer-like person that englishman kicked out before?
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2019-04-15T09:58:34 < dongs> no, thats laurence/b/
2019-04-15T09:58:43 < dongs> and you're a god damn retard if you think i have any relation to him
2019-04-15T09:59:48 < NVIRQ> yeah, that's right. you're more brutal. they just posted/said weird things.
2019-04-15T10:02:44 < kakimir> rage is the essence
2019-04-15T10:03:20 < dongs> i'll be sure to stay out of your safe space
2019-04-15T10:03:24 < NVIRQ> i just figured maybe his alter-ego (mr.hyde)
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2019-04-15T10:06:28 < kakimir> dongs is one of the sane ones here
2019-04-15T10:07:51 < NVIRQ> sounds like the bar is set very low. englishman didn't seem bad.
2019-04-15T10:10:32 < kakimir> one of the sane ones too
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2019-04-15T10:21:49 < jly> englishman has the most famous official stm32 cats
2019-04-15T10:23:47 < NVIRQ> i don't even know what that is supposed to mean... "stm32 cats"?
2019-04-15T10:27:25 < dongs> did you solve your IRQ problem
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2019-04-15T10:29:01 < jly> I’ve got LGBTQ problem
2019-04-15T10:29:04 < NVIRQ> I think so. I have to figure out what's going on with the sensor and might just test with a button first instead. I've just been looking at other stuff like charge-pumps. Never knew about them until looking at boost converters.
2019-04-15T10:29:11 < jly> ran out of bullets
2019-04-15T10:29:18 < jly> Pump over.
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2019-04-15T10:30:06 < NVIRQ> Basically, I made use of __HAL_GPIO_EXTI_GET_IT and __HAL_TIM_GET_FLAG
2019-04-15T10:31:01 < dongs> yeah.
2019-04-15T10:32:16 < NVIRQ> jly, is that meant to be a joke, sort of like trolling? With what laurence would post/say, dongs name (and description?) and what you said, I'm getting a feeling the whole stm32 channel is primarily full of troll/edgy/4chan characters.
2019-04-15T10:33:54 < jly> what
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2019-04-15T10:34:29 < jly> full of engineers last time I checked
2019-04-15T10:35:51 < NVIRQ> it can be both. it's just behavior I see on twitter (especially comments to trump), drama areas of reddit and chan-sites.
2019-04-15T10:36:19 < NVIRQ> it's rare i encounter it in other areas.
2019-04-15T10:36:35 < jly> I don’t see politics :/
2019-04-15T10:38:04 < jly> Can’t help you with HAL I’ve never bothered with it
2019-04-15T10:39:39 < NVIRQ> do you go straight with cmsis then? or lower? Not sure if cmsis applies to all MCUs which would make it more beneficial rather than having to know various libraries.
2019-04-15T10:41:24 < jly> Never had to go past cmsis and the stdperipheral library
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2019-04-15T10:42:27 < jly> Last thing I did was talking to one of those ADI sigmadsps
2019-04-15T10:46:48 < jly> Real basic stuff for a microcontroller
2019-04-15T10:49:05 < NVIRQ> just looked for std peripheral and saw that it was superseded by cubemx/HAL. I'll stick with the HAL for now. I may take a closer gander at CMSIS if I see it is also commonly used by other MCUs I've looked at/considered.
2019-04-15T10:50:01 < dongs> lol i should really cahnge my ircname to something esle
2019-04-15T10:50:12 < PaulFertser> NVIRQ: stdperipheral is the old shit-library from ST; HAL is a newer variant of the same. Some people here are using libopencm3 instead, some ChibiOS HAL, some tried "mbed", there's also "stm32plus" library for C++ programmers, some people are doing Rust, some are writing their own libraries.
2019-04-15T10:50:15 < dongs> maybe to "The game is to provoke an emotional response, not to provide one."
2019-04-15T10:51:19 < NVIRQ> oh, I saw mention of libopencm3 recently. I think it may have actually been related to a sensor on my computer, if that could be.
2019-04-15T10:51:47 < dongs> libopencm3 would be cool if they stuck to cmsis naming conventions
2019-04-15T10:51:53 < dongs> and didnt try to reinvent teh wheel everywhere
2019-04-15T10:52:03 < dongs> i don't want my vector names renamed
2019-04-15T10:52:05 < dongs> to random shit
2019-04-15T10:53:58 < NVIRQ> truly my primary concern with all the trolls that I know are trying to be absurd is that there are mentally-manipulatable (sp?) people who I think get conditioned to think a certain way (a wrong way)
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2019-04-15T11:10:33 < NVIRQ> hmm, yeah. I don't know what I was looking for when I came across libopencm3. A previous search was for "usbd_ep_setup", so it wasn't about my computer sensor I think. It was over a month ago.
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2019-04-15T11:44:53 < zyp> NVIRQ, there's assholes everywhere, if you're gonna avoid any community with assholes then you're missing out on a lot of useful stuff too
2019-04-15T11:45:42 < NVIRQ> no doubt. I share that same belief as well.
2019-04-15T11:48:48 < zyp> libopencm3 seems fairly decent, I might have been using it myself if I found it earlier
2019-04-15T11:49:42 < zyp> by the time I came across libopencm3, I was pretty far along with some scratch-written stuff and now I don't want to just discard it :)
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2019-04-15T12:25:31 < dongs> so zyp
2019-04-15T12:25:37 < dongs> if I wanna do USB hid or CDC on F0
2019-04-15T12:25:44 < dongs> does your shit work with it
2019-04-15T12:25:54 < dongs> F042 to be specific
2019-04-15T12:26:07 < dongs> i feel if I add HAL_USB its gonna run out of flash before it even finishes compiling
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2019-04-15T13:04:45 < jadew``> man... when I'm getting the customs proceedings papers my blood starts to boil
2019-04-15T13:04:57 < jadew``> it's like every time there's some extra bit of text added to them
2019-04-15T13:05:30 < jadew``> this time it says that if there's no shipping value on the invoice, they'll use whatever shipping value they think it applies, and tax me on that
2019-04-15T13:05:53 < jadew``> AND, if the shipping was paid by whoever sent the package, I'll pay VAT for it anyway
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2019-04-15T13:27:03 < zyp> dongs, yes
2019-04-15T13:31:50 < karlp> jadew``:yeah, paying vat on the total price icnluding shipping is pretty normal...
2019-04-15T13:32:29 < zyp> jadew``, ah, this is DHL I presume
2019-04-15T13:32:33 < jadew``> karlp, even if you didn't pay for the service?
2019-04-15T13:32:38 < jadew``> zyp, yeah
2019-04-15T13:32:58 < karlp> jadew``: but you did....
2019-04-15T13:32:59 < zyp> they are infamous for doing that
2019-04-15T13:33:02 < jadew``> in this case I did pay for the service and it was included in the products price, but it's just annoying that they want to tax you for money you didn't spend
2019-04-15T13:33:07 < zyp> karlp, DHL is wrong, jadew`` is right
2019-04-15T13:33:37 < zyp> the point is, you buy something, shipping included, let's say you pay $100
2019-04-15T13:33:39 < karlp> you mean, shipping was included, but they're goign to add you shipping too?
2019-04-15T13:33:47 < karlp> sure, that's wrong.
2019-04-15T13:33:53 < karlp> good lcuk arguing it though...
2019-04-15T13:33:54 < jadew``> karlp, if it's not on the invoice, yes
2019-04-15T13:34:10 < jadew``> in my case it's with a value of 0, so I hope it will fly
2019-04-15T13:34:14 < zyp> DHL then goes "oh, there's no shipping specified here, okay, we estimate this cost $50 in shipping", and then charge you VAT on $150
2019-04-15T13:34:38 < jadew``> but the mere fact that they want to tax you for something you can PROVE you didn't pay for, is just insane
2019-04-15T13:34:47 < jadew``> because you have to give them the bank statements too, for the transaction
2019-04-15T13:34:59 < karlp> they have no care whatsoever for what ever invoice you can provide.
2019-04-15T13:35:01 < karlp> "it's fake"
2019-04-15T13:35:03 < jadew``> and it's clear from that, that the price on the invoice is exactly what you paid
2019-04-15T13:35:13 < karlp> you should be used to this by now :)
2019-04-15T13:35:18 < karlp> package roulette.
2019-04-15T13:35:29 < zyp> and then DHL customer support goes "whatever, VAT is paid, if you want it back you have to ask the customs agency"
2019-04-15T13:35:40 < jadew``> hah, yeah
2019-04-15T13:38:19 < jadew``> I think the rationale here is that they're taxing you for VALUE you're receiving
2019-04-15T13:38:37 < jadew``> in the same way they're taxing you for a product you got as a gift
2019-04-15T13:39:01 < jadew``> but I think it's still wrong, because why are they considering that the shipping is value that I am receiving
2019-04-15T13:39:08 < jadew``> and it's not value that the seller is receiving?
2019-04-15T13:39:35 < karlp> call it a consumption tax or a goods and services tax if you find the word value annoys you
2019-04-15T13:39:51 < zyp> jadew``, no, that is not the point
2019-04-15T13:39:57 < karlp> you paid fora  good and it to be delivered to you. (I agree dhl is wrong, but I follow how you pay the tax on the total)
2019-04-15T13:40:29 < karlp> we should instead be bjecting to consumption taxes in general, as they target the poor more.
2019-04-15T13:40:30 < jadew``> karlp, yeah, I have no problem paying tax for the total price that I paid for that thing
2019-04-15T13:40:36 < zyp> the point is that DHL assumes that no shipping cost specified means that the seller forgot to add it
2019-04-15T13:41:00 < jadew``> zyp, yeah
2019-04-15T13:41:01 < zyp> no other freight companies do that, DHL is just insane
2019-04-15T13:41:29 < jadew``> on the invoice in the package (that DHL sent me by e-mail) there's no shipping
2019-04-15T13:42:03 < jadew``> however, I had an alternative invoice with shipping included: $0
2019-04-15T13:42:47 < jadew``> I hope they'll be happy with that and understand that the shipping was included in the price of the products and that the chinese factory didn't pay for shipping out of good will
2019-04-15T13:43:37 < zyp> when this happened to me I ended up just saying fuck it
2019-04-15T13:44:10 < zyp> to be fair, I've underpaid enough VAT on other shit that I can live with overpaying VAT once in a while :p
2019-04-15T13:44:21 < jadew``> heh
2019-04-15T13:44:54 < zyp> but nowadays customs agency has an online service where you can easily submit requests for corrections
2019-04-15T13:44:59 < jadew``> I let it slide on several occasions too, but this sort of crap is starting to get on my nerves real bad
2019-04-15T13:45:03 < karlp> our post service here has been badly run, investing in offtopic businesses and is now going to sttart charging ~6€or so for receiving any foreign parcel.
2019-04-15T13:45:08 < karlp> and you have to come pick it up too.
2019-04-15T13:45:20 < zyp> haha
2019-04-15T13:45:33 < jadew``> lol
2019-04-15T13:45:48 < karlp> (in addition to the ~10 or so they already charge for "handling" plus whatever vat said parcel may attract)
2019-04-15T13:46:18 < karlp> so I'm going to start looking at ~16€ _starting_ price for receiving a parcel.
2019-04-15T13:46:40 < karlp> ali express becomes mega roulette.  Will they send an untracked letter like I asked? free to my door!
2019-04-15T13:46:54 < karlp> will they send it registered, thinking they're being helpful? 16€ extra, and a drive to pick it up!
2019-04-15T13:47:18 < jadew``> jeez...
2019-04-15T13:47:45 < jadew``> I stopped ordering anything that has to go through customs through regular post
2019-04-15T13:47:48 < karlp> at least it's transparent :)  VAT: 189kr, handling 1200....
2019-04-15T13:47:58 < karlp> jadew``:my annoyance is taht I can't control it.
2019-04-15T13:48:02 < jadew``> it ends up being as expensive as DHL and the service is worse
2019-04-15T13:48:12 < karlp> I have close to zero control over how the seller actualyl ships,
2019-04-15T13:48:19 < jadew``> yeah
2019-04-15T13:48:29 < karlp> and dhl/ups/fedex locally all already charge that much anyway.
2019-04-15T13:48:34 < karlp> and also rarely deliver.
2019-04-15T13:48:59 < karlp> "we tried once, fuck you, drive to the outer burbs to pick it up now"
2019-04-15T13:58:16 < jadew``> pfew... thought I had a virus going through my stuff but I think it's just my soft raid doing something
2019-04-15T13:58:41 < jadew``> I had to reboot my PC while it was shutting down and now I see high disk activity on that RADI
2019-04-15T13:58:43 < jadew``> RAID
2019-04-15T14:02:00 < jadew``> something must have gone wrong, there seems to be a lot of writing
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2019-04-15T14:03:26 < zyp> I got some shit through regular mail last week that there were actually customs due for
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2019-04-15T14:03:42 < jadew``> and didn't have to pay anything?
2019-04-15T14:03:54 < zyp> had to pay a bunch
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2019-04-15T14:04:03 < jadew``> ah
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2019-04-15T14:04:17 < zyp> probably paid just as much in import fees as I originally paid for product and shipping
2019-04-15T14:05:25 < zyp> not surprised though, but I was curious exactly what customs rate they calculated with, so I emailed customer support and asked if I could have a copy of the actual customs documentation
2019-04-15T14:05:50 < zyp> and they were all like "no, you'd have to file a complaint with the customs agency"
2019-04-15T14:06:24 < zyp> I don't wanna complain, I just wanna see what product class they used to calculate customs
2019-04-15T14:08:22 < jadew``> did they help you?
2019-04-15T14:10:07 < jadew``> any ideas on why is my RAID resyncing and why it takes so long?
2019-04-15T14:10:16 < jadew``> is it copying everything from one side to the other?
2019-04-15T14:11:12 < jadew``> seems like it... it's reading from one and writing on the other
2019-04-15T14:12:22 < jadew``> it's cool that I can still use it in the meantime
2019-04-15T14:19:40 < zyp> jadew``, no
2019-04-15T14:20:01 < zyp> since it got brought up now, I just sent another couple of emails
2019-04-15T14:20:24 < zyp> both to the mail company and to the customs agency
2019-04-15T14:21:59 < zyp> products with actual customs on, in addition to VAT, are pretty annoying
2019-04-15T14:23:23 < zyp> next time I'll probably just order it "poste restante" to sweden or denmark and drive it across the border myself
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2019-04-15T14:24:01 < jadew``> zyp, I think in sweden there's no VAT if you're a private citizen
2019-04-15T14:24:16 < zyp> sure there are
2019-04-15T14:24:16 < jadew``> (when receiving stuff from outside the EU)
2019-04-15T14:24:41 < zyp> but that's not relevant for this, this is EU stuff
2019-04-15T14:25:03 < jadew``> ah
2019-04-15T14:25:15 < zyp> I've done the same before, had shit sent to sweden and just picked it up there
2019-04-15T14:26:17 < zyp> when you cross the border yourself, you can bring stuff with you up to 3k or 6k NOK without having to deal with customs
2019-04-15T14:26:36 < jadew``> probably more, if you keep your mouth shut :P
2019-04-15T14:26:51 < zyp> 3k for a day trip, 6k if you've stayed outside norway for more than 24h
2019-04-15T14:26:56 < zyp> oh, yeah
2019-04-15T14:27:27 < zyp> I mean, I never paid any VAT on the camera gear I bought in .jp
2019-04-15T14:27:29 < zyp> :p
2019-04-15T14:28:15 < jadew``> yeah, would be silly to declare that kind of stuff
2019-04-15T14:28:25 < zyp> even if you get stopped for a random search, it's not like they can tell whether you brought it from norway or bought it abroad
2019-04-15T14:28:33 < jadew``> yep
2019-04-15T14:28:47 < jadew``> "had it with me all along"
2019-04-15T14:29:06 < zyp> I mean, theoretically you're supposed to be able to document it, but I've never seen anybody care
2019-04-15T14:29:34 < zyp> and when I've been stopped for a random search, nobody has cared
2019-04-15T14:30:19 < karlp> heh, they care alot here, tehy have even run ad campaigns saying, "yeahm, we're gonna fuck you up if you think you can just buy cameras and laptops overseas boyo"
2019-04-15T14:30:49 < karlp> "we're keeping this until you can prove you bought it more than X ago"
2019-04-15T14:31:27 < zyp> I think the only time I've been searched at an airport was when I returned from korea
2019-04-15T14:31:47 < zyp> and as far as I remember, all they seemed to care about was alcohol and drugs
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2019-04-15T14:32:03 < jadew``> I got searched in france
2019-04-15T14:32:08 < jadew``> several times
2019-04-15T14:32:21 < jadew``> in fact, everyone seemed to get searched
2019-04-15T14:32:57 < jadew``> lots of bottles got prevented from embarking
2019-04-15T14:33:08 < zyp> haha
2019-04-15T14:33:25 < zyp> I had some alcohol with me, but within the allowed quota
2019-04-15T14:34:48 < zyp> I remember I was pretty jetlagged/sleep deprived, and norway was also a lot colder than korea, so I was shivering a bit, and the customs guy interpreted that as nervousness and kept looking for illegal drugs :p
2019-04-15T14:36:26 < jadew``> you're lucky you didn't get a cavity search
2019-04-15T14:36:52 < zyp> karlp, so how does that work? what are you supposed to do if you wanna take a camera and a laptop travelling, like any normal person?
2019-04-15T14:37:36 < jadew``> maybe also take a picture of you with the laptop next to last chritmas' tree?
2019-04-15T14:37:57 < karlp> zyp: hope they're not being cunty
2019-04-15T14:38:04 < karlp> have lots of wear marks on your stuff.
2019-04-15T14:38:10 < dongs> zyp which usb driver works?
2019-04-15T14:38:11 < karlp> or keep receipts.
2019-04-15T14:38:14 < dongs> i see l0 and f1 in laks thing
2019-04-15T14:38:35 < zyp> dongs, naming is kinda dumb, I should rename them to v1 and v2
2019-04-15T14:38:38 < karlp> I imagine it's still mostly just threats, but you hear of it from time to time.
2019-04-15T14:39:00 < karlp> do you still have separate branches for each family in laks?
2019-04-15T14:39:03 < zyp> f1 is v1, l0 is v2, they are named after the chip I originally implemented support for
2019-04-15T14:39:10 < zyp> karlp, no, never had that
2019-04-15T14:39:16 < karlp> yes you did...
2019-04-15T14:39:23 < karlp> if you wanted l0, you had to use a different branch...
2019-04-15T14:39:31 < zyp> I mean, I had some unmerged shit for f0/l0 before, but that was never meant as a permanent solution
2019-04-15T14:39:40 < karlp> well, it stayed like that a long time :)
2019-04-15T14:39:45 < karlp> but ok, so "no" is the answer then :)
2019-04-15T14:40:01 < zyp> laks is not that active, everything stays like it is for a long time :p
2019-04-15T14:40:14 < karlp> no complaints, just checking :)
2019-04-15T14:40:34 < zyp> I think I cleaned up that stuff just a few weeks ago
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2019-04-15T14:41:12 < zyp> ref. https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/log/
2019-04-15T14:41:25 < zyp> L0 stuff got merged in 2016, F0 got merged last month :p
2019-04-15T14:41:38 < Thorn> some beautiful footage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opM5pEkMuWs
2019-04-15T14:41:57 < zyp> dongs, so anyway, f0 and l0 are the same
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2019-04-15T14:43:06 < zyp> dongs, here's some f042 code I'm using: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/0zcDo
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2019-04-15T14:52:15 < aandrew> zyp: I really like your USB instantiation
2019-04-15T14:54:11 < aandrew> I don't use USB enough on STM32 to be good at it, but your method of setting up classes is really simple
2019-04-15T14:55:00 < aandrew> zyp> to be fair, I've underpaid enough VAT on other shit that I can live with overpaying VAT once in a while :p
2019-04-15T14:55:28 < aandrew> that is *exactly* how I feel about taxes. I don't pay VAT here but yeah, I get away with not paying HST on imports enough that the once in a while I do get bitten for the actual amount I still come out even. Fuck 'em.
2019-04-15T14:57:07 -!- Jybz [~jibz@37.175.100.122] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2019-04-15T14:58:00 < dongs> i wonder if I can denigger it enough to run it together with C code
2019-04-15T15:01:59 < zyp> most C code can compile as C++, so that's not too hard to manage, depending on what code you wanna combine it with
2019-04-15T15:02:23 < dongs> yes, there's that part where i DONT want to compile C code as C++
2019-04-15T15:02:28 < dongs> lemme see if keil can combine two
2019-04-15T15:03:24 < zyp> well, calling C from C++ is straight forward, just make sure the C++ compiler knows the C functions are C
2019-04-15T15:03:56 < zyp> calling C++ from C also works for the subset that exists in C, just make the C++ compiler give the functions C symbol names
2019-04-15T15:05:52 < dongs> so i only need shit in usb/usb?
2019-04-15T15:05:59 < dongs> hmm i guess i need all the other shit too like register stuff etc
2019-04-15T15:06:07 < dongs> how the hell does this cgit shit work
2019-04-15T15:06:14 < dongs> how can i use shithub to take current sores
2019-04-15T15:06:33 < zyp> you can clone the repo from https://git.jvnv.net/git/laks
2019-04-15T15:10:42 < dongs> so i need to #define  ?
2019-04-15T15:10:43 < dongs> err
2019-04-15T15:10:44 < dongs> STM32F0 ?
2019-04-15T15:10:47 < dongs> to use the regs
2019-04-15T15:10:52 < zyp> yes
2019-04-15T15:11:14 < dongs> ok cool. making progress
2019-04-15T15:11:26 < zyp> generic.h includes util/rblog.h, which agains includes os/time.h, so you'll probably want to strip out some part of that
2019-04-15T15:11:53 < zyp> apart from that everything you need is in usb/
2019-04-15T15:11:58 < dongs> lib/laks\gpio/gpio.h(192): error: constexpr constructor never produces a constant expression [-Winvalid-constexpr]
2019-04-15T15:12:01 < dongs> lmao
2019-04-15T15:12:02 < dongs> i guess uh...
2019-04-15T15:12:27 < dongs> ok switched to 14
2019-04-15T15:12:28 < dongs> ...
2019-04-15T15:12:35 < dongs> lib/laks\gpio/gpio.h(192): error: constexpr constructor never produces a constant expression [-Winvalid-constexpr]
2019-04-15T15:12:56 < dongs> am i fucked
2019-04-15T15:13:32 < zyp> dunno, you don't need the gpio stuff if you're getting that from elsewhere
2019-04-15T15:13:42 < zyp> usb code doesn't touch gpio
2019-04-15T15:15:00 < dongs> Time::sleep() is ms or us?
2019-04-15T15:15:05 < zyp> ms
2019-04-15T15:16:39 < dongs> mm
2019-04-15T15:16:40 < dongs> it compiles so far
2019-04-15T15:17:01 < dongs> *** Warning: You are compiling one or more files of source type C++ and have selected 'use MicroLIB'. MicroLIB does not support C++!
2019-04-15T15:17:04 < dongs> gross
2019-04-15T15:17:06 < zyp> haha
2019-04-15T15:17:10 < dongs> to use gay++ shit i have to abandong neat libc
2019-04-15T15:17:11 < veverak> lol
2019-04-15T15:17:14 < dongs> i wonder what garbage it usesw as replacement
2019-04-15T15:17:21 < dongs> Program Size: Code=10370 RO-data=414 RW-data=16 ZI-data=800  
2019-04-15T15:17:22 < dongs> hurrr
2019-04-15T15:17:25 < zyp> I don't think that's a problem
2019-04-15T15:17:42 < zyp> the usb code shouldn't need any special libc support
2019-04-15T15:17:59 < dongs> yes, but linking WITH C++ code robs me of ability to use microlib
2019-04-15T15:17:59 < veverak> why the hell is dongs using gay++ ? hell froze or something?
2019-04-15T15:18:12 < dongs> i want working usb on F0 :0
2019-04-15T15:18:16 < veverak> wait, wat
2019-04-15T15:18:26 < veverak> dongs: why should C++ rob you of that ability
2019-04-15T15:18:42 < zyp> veverak, obviously my C++ is awesome enough that even dongs may consider using it
2019-04-15T15:19:06 < veverak> my C++ makes most of C++ coders run in fear, I can't help here...
2019-04-15T15:19:29 < zyp> hmm, I don't get that constexpr error
2019-04-15T15:19:39 < veverak> but I wonder why the fact that you compile in a C++ compile unit should prevent you from using some c-lib
2019-04-15T15:19:55 < dongs> veverak: because its headers have no retard++ catches
2019-04-15T15:19:58 < dongs> wiht the extern "C" shit
2019-04-15T15:20:01 < dongs> so it probly doenst link
2019-04-15T15:20:04 < zyp> it's about the GPIO_t constructor, and GPIO_t only contains a reference, and the only thing the constructor does is initializing it
2019-04-15T15:20:15 < dongs> Zyp, well this is arm compiler
2019-04-15T15:20:23 < dongs> c++14 "support" is marked as "community"
2019-04-15T15:20:28 < dongs> so its probly just opensores filth 
2019-04-15T15:20:42 < dongs> USB.reg.BCDR |= 1 << 15;
2019-04-15T15:20:43 < dongs> what is this..
2019-04-15T15:21:01 < zyp> enabling the internal D+ pullup
2019-04-15T15:21:07 < dongs> ah
2019-04-15T15:21:09 < dongs> so to conncet it
2019-04-15T15:21:10 < dongs> nice comments man
2019-04-15T15:21:15 < zyp> :)
2019-04-15T15:21:21 < dongs> ok so
2019-04-15T15:21:25 < zyp> at some point I'm gonna add an API for it
2019-04-15T15:21:31 < dongs> i have usbInit(void) how do i make it usable from C?
2019-04-15T15:21:39 < dongs> just do extern "C" void usbInit(void) ?
2019-04-15T15:21:43 < zyp> yeah
2019-04-15T15:23:38 < dongs> Program Size: Code=7770 RO-data=394 RW-data=196 ZI-data=940  
2019-04-15T15:23:39 < dongs> huh
2019-04-15T15:23:41 < dongs> why did it shrink
2019-04-15T15:23:46 < dongs> after actually linking 
2019-04-15T15:24:49 < dongs> ~huh well
2019-04-15T15:24:54 < dongs> it didnt hardfault right away
2019-04-15T15:24:55 < dongs> lets see
2019-04-15T15:25:03 < dongs> now i need to find a usbc cable i can actually use
2019-04-15T15:27:21 < dongs> wow
2019-04-15T15:27:24 < dongs> it worked
2019-04-15T15:28:33 < dongs> it makes 2 com ports?
2019-04-15T15:28:35 < dongs> in default shit
2019-04-15T15:28:39 < veverak> interesting
2019-04-15T15:28:42 < veverak> hmm
2019-04-15T15:28:51 < veverak> is anybody using link-time optimization on embedded?
2019-04-15T15:28:57 < dongs> i am, in keil
2019-04-15T15:29:14 < dongs> but unlike in gcc, it actually works there
2019-04-15T15:29:17 < dongs> ^_^
2019-04-15T15:29:18 < veverak> any bugs?
2019-04-15T15:29:20 < veverak> ah...
2019-04-15T15:29:20 < dongs> nope
2019-04-15T15:29:29 < dongs> many production devices with release firmware build with that
2019-04-15T15:29:34 < veverak> cool
2019-04-15T15:31:05 < dongs> http://www.arterytek.com/html/product/product_AT32F403.jsp
2019-04-15T15:31:07 < dongs> another STM32 clone
2019-04-15T15:32:34 < dongs> zyp, how come windows ddint neeed a driver for it
2019-04-15T15:32:38 < dongs> are you faking as som FTDI shit?
2019-04-15T15:32:54 < zyp> no, apparently win10 supports binding any ACM device
2019-04-15T15:33:14 < dongs> oh so i should take STM's CDC ids if i wanted to use it with something older?
2019-04-15T15:33:20 < dongs> how come its a combo thing?
2019-04-15T15:34:01 < zyp> that code is my serial shell over CAN thing, I've got two devices with different can addrs
2019-04-15T15:34:30 < dongs> well, hmm it works
2019-04-15T15:34:42 < dongs> should be enough for me to wrap cdc read/write into stuff that calls my usual serial console shit
2019-04-15T15:34:53 < dongs> device initializes and windows seesteh stuff
2019-04-15T15:35:05 < dongs> i didnt implement anything internally so i guess it'd probly lockup if i tried to use something
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2019-04-15T15:44:08 < dongs> ok so...
2019-04-15T15:44:15 < dongs> how do i turn that shit into a single cdc_acm
2019-04-15T15:44:19 < dongs> whats an iad_descriptor
2019-04-15T15:44:30 < dongs> do I just delete one of htem?
2019-04-15T15:46:35 < dongs> hmm it still comes up as composite tho
2019-04-15T15:47:24 < zyp> also change the first argument of configuration_desc from 4 to 2
2019-04-15T15:47:28 < dongs> did that
2019-04-15T15:47:29 < zyp> that's the interface count
2019-04-15T15:47:32 < dongs> yes, to2
2019-04-15T15:47:33 < zyp> okay, good
2019-04-15T15:47:39 < dongs> but it still shows up as composite
2019-04-15T15:47:41 < dongs> wiht acm behind it
2019-04-15T15:47:55 < zyp> but yeah, you went from a composite device with two functions to a composite device with one function
2019-04-15T15:48:07 < zyp> IAD is shit to define composite devices
2019-04-15T15:48:14 < dongs> oh.
2019-04-15T15:48:28 < zyp> so if you don't want that, remove the entire IAD wrapper
2019-04-15T15:48:41 < karlp> IAD is only for composite on windows right?
2019-04-15T15:48:53 < dongs> i  dont know, i only use windows ~
2019-04-15T15:49:09 < zyp> karlp, well, it's not windows-specific, but windows cares more than other OSes
2019-04-15T15:49:43 < zyp> from what I understand it's a consequence of how drivers are bound to devices
2019-04-15T15:54:57 < dongs> how much of the shit in class USB_CDC_ACM : public USB_class_driver { do i actually need?
2019-04-15T15:55:14 < aandrew> dongs: it probably shrunk after linking because it can do lto
2019-04-15T15:56:25 < zyp> dongs, the constructor and the three protected/virtual functions
2019-04-15T15:57:00 < zyp> you can drop the entire process() if you like, if you're handling TX elsewhere
2019-04-15T15:57:19 < zyp> and you can drop most of handle_out() and replace it with your own RX handling
2019-04-15T15:58:42 < mawk> what is your lib for usb
2019-04-15T15:58:49 < karlp> the git link above
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2019-04-15T16:00:43 < dongs> with keil i just had
2019-04-15T16:00:50 < dongs> USBD_CDC_ACM_GetChar and USBD_CDC_ACM_PutChar
2019-04-15T16:00:54 < mawk> too above for my little backlog
2019-04-15T16:01:01 < mawk> found it in the server logs
2019-04-15T16:01:25 < zyp> dongs, yeah, you need to maintain an input and an output buffer for that
2019-04-15T16:02:21 < dongs> USBD_CDC_ACM_PortSetControlLineState how about this?
2019-04-15T16:02:39 < zyp> do you care about those?
2019-04-15T16:03:08 < dongs> yes, beacuse if you try to send/receive shit over acm while DTR is not set, it will overrun some internal buffers and usb will get stoned
2019-04-15T16:03:29 < mawk> the server does not like me: HTTP ERROR 404
2019-04-15T16:03:33 < zyp> okay, I haven't bothered dicking around with those
2019-04-15T16:03:38 < mawk> people are racist against my ip block, it happens all the time
2019-04-15T16:03:42 < zyp> mawk, that's a clone url, not browse url
2019-04-15T16:03:54 < zyp> you can browse it here: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/
2019-04-15T16:03:57 < dongs> so when control line bit 0 (DTR) is set, i set a flag and unless its set i dont do write to port
2019-04-15T16:04:02 < mawk> yes I went on the top level
2019-04-15T16:04:03 < mawk> ah
2019-04-15T16:04:12 < mawk> good
2019-04-15T16:04:56 < dongs> why is your usb.read/write takes 32bit shits?
2019-04-15T16:04:59 < dongs> buffers
2019-04-15T16:05:10 < zyp> because it's retarded and I haven't gotten around to change that
2019-04-15T16:05:18  * karlp laughs
2019-04-15T16:05:25 < zyp> it keeps annoying me too
2019-04-15T16:05:43 < zyp> feel free to change it to void*
2019-04-15T16:06:50 < zyp> the reason it does is because the stack were originally written towards the dwc_otg core in f4 which has a 32-bit wide FIFO, so its read/write functions takes 32-bit pointers
2019-04-15T16:07:12 < zyp> and instead of fixing the API I for some reason kept it like that when I added more drivers
2019-04-15T16:09:40 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?h=usb_transfer&id=c8f142d <- in the API rewrite I've apparently thought about switching to uint8_t*, but I think void* would be more convenient
2019-04-15T16:10:10 < mawk> in C++ void * would just be informative no ?
2019-04-15T16:10:19 < mawk> it's in C that you have the convenience
2019-04-15T16:10:26 < zyp> that shit's an early work in progress anyway, I'll figure it out some time I have time to work on it
2019-04-15T16:10:42 < zyp> mawk, how so?
2019-04-15T16:11:09 < Cracki> in c, there's implicit casting from/to(?) void* and other ptrs. in c++ it's all bitched at.
2019-04-15T16:11:11 < zyp> any pointer can be implicitly casted to void* in both C and C++, unlike uint8_t*
2019-04-15T16:11:25 < zyp> as far as I remember
2019-04-15T16:11:28 < mawk> yes but not the converse
2019-04-15T16:11:35 < Cracki> I think it's the other way around, e.g. malloc returns void* and it will be cast implicitly to other ptrs
2019-04-15T16:11:40 < zyp> true, but that doesn't matter
2019-04-15T16:12:06 < dongs> hm zyp do i need to buffer putchar for cdc or can i just send it anytime?
2019-04-15T16:12:08 < Cracki> easy to silence in c++ with an overload, or cast
2019-04-15T16:12:15 < dongs> i could put a ringbuffer into read() tho im not even sure wheer
2019-04-15T16:12:36 < zyp> dongs, depends how much you care about buffering
2019-04-15T16:13:09 < dongs> i dont i guess?
2019-04-15T16:13:10 < Cracki> oh, that void* stuff in C actually goes both ways
2019-04-15T16:13:13 < zyp> nothing prevents you from sending a separate usb packet for every byte if you want to, it's just slower
2019-04-15T16:13:21 < dongs> thats what i'd be doing anyway
2019-04-15T16:13:23 < dongs> i guess?
2019-04-15T16:13:32 < Thorn> is there a command to select next route segment in Altium Disaster?
2019-04-15T16:13:40 < dongs> Thorn: whats that
2019-04-15T16:13:50 < dongs> oposite of backspace? or wat
2019-04-15T16:13:58 < aandrew> Thorn: I've never tried to get that fancy with selections
2019-04-15T16:14:13 < aandrew> I just cancel, pr and select the next one
2019-04-15T16:14:29 < Thorn> you select a segment, press tab, the whole route is selected. I want to select one more adjacent segment
2019-04-15T16:14:38 < dongs> oh
2019-04-15T16:14:41 < dongs> shift-click and tab again
2019-04-15T16:14:43 < aandrew> ah
2019-04-15T16:14:45 < zyp> dongs, if you cared about speed, you'd buffer bytes and send them out when you have a full 64B packet (or you don't have any new bytes for a while)
2019-04-15T16:14:47 < dongs> shift-click on new trace, tab
2019-04-15T16:15:20 < zyp> but doing that you need a bit more logic
2019-04-15T16:15:28 < Thorn> dongs: still selects the whole trace
2019-04-15T16:15:33 < dongs> ?
2019-04-15T16:16:01 < zyp> otherwise you can just treat it as an uart, like while(busy) { /* wait */ } write(byte);
2019-04-15T16:16:56 < zyp> while(!usb.ep_ready(1)) {} usb.write(1, &buf, 1);
2019-04-15T16:17:25 < dongs> thats my putchar? or wahtever?
2019-04-15T16:17:29 < zyp> yeah
2019-04-15T16:18:41 < zyp> for getchar you'll need to fill a buffer from handle_out() and then have getchar() grab from the buffer
2019-04-15T16:18:49 < dongs> right, im doing that
2019-04-15T16:18:56 < dongs> so handle_out is called with ep# and how many buts are in it?
2019-04-15T16:18:57 < dongs> bytes
2019-04-15T16:19:14 < zyp> yes
2019-04-15T16:21:26 < dongs> usb.read takes 32bit* but the len is actually in bytes?
2019-04-15T16:21:34 < dongs> or multiples of 32
2019-04-15T16:21:36 < zyp> correct
2019-04-15T16:21:40 < dongs> man, what the hell
2019-04-15T16:21:45 < zyp> len is btes
2019-04-15T16:21:46 < zyp> bytes
2019-04-15T16:22:31 < dongs> so you only read 16 bytes, what if remote sends more?
2019-04-15T16:22:39 < dongs> are you gona get another handle_out with < 16?
2019-04-15T16:22:44 < dongs> like if 24bytes were sent
2019-04-15T16:22:56 < zyp> 16 how?
2019-04-15T16:23:07 < dongs> oh fuck never mind
2019-04-15T16:23:39 < zyp> anything you don't read during handle_out() is discarded after it returns
2019-04-15T16:23:43 < dongs>             uint32_t buf[16];
2019-04-15T16:23:44 < dongs>             len = usb.read(ep, buf, len);
2019-04-15T16:23:47 < dongs> well this had me confused
2019-04-15T16:23:54 < zyp> yeah, it's dumb
2019-04-15T16:23:55 < dongs> cuz you reused len for a bunch of unrelated shit
2019-04-15T16:24:00 < dongs> not ot mention overflow-y
2019-04-15T16:24:18 < zyp> no, it's 4*16
2019-04-15T16:24:20 < zyp> i.e. 64
2019-04-15T16:24:31 < dongs> oh.. yeah i guess thats all its ever gonna be
2019-04-15T16:24:33 < Thorn> holy crap this altium crap is retarded. when snap is enabled the thing being moved snaps to itself. lol
2019-04-15T16:24:49 < zyp> yeah
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2019-04-15T16:25:40 < Thorn> you can't input digits in the net name field! 
2019-04-15T16:25:52 < Thorn> (in the pcb editor)
2019-04-15T16:26:06 < Thorn> (this is probably new in 19)
2019-04-15T16:26:34 < zyp> parts of the laks usb stuff is fairly old and written when I were learning how USB worked, so there's some pretty dumb decisions in there as well
2019-04-15T16:26:40 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/7GLCCS23.html
2019-04-15T16:26:55 < icek> Do NUCLEO-F756ZG is ARM v7 or ARM v8?
2019-04-15T16:27:11 < dongs> icek, what does STM32F7 page say?
2019-04-15T16:27:40 < zyp> dongs, swap buf for a uint8_t buf[64];
2019-04-15T16:27:52 < zyp> otherwise your loop would fuck up
2019-04-15T16:28:02 < dongs> why woudl it?
2019-04-15T16:28:12 < dongs> i cast buf to uint8 with bufp
2019-04-15T16:28:22 < dongs> ring.buf = different guffer
2019-04-15T16:28:22 < zyp> ah, true
2019-04-15T16:28:23 < dongs> buffer
2019-04-15T16:28:29 < zyp> okay, that works
2019-04-15T16:28:40 < dongs> what context is this shit called ?
2019-04-15T16:28:46 < dongs> do i need to worry about IRQs when pulling from ring?
2019-04-15T16:28:54 < zyp> usb.process();
2019-04-15T16:29:02 < icek> dongs, where i can find this pages?
2019-04-15T16:29:04 < zyp> usb code doesn't touch irqs
2019-04-15T16:29:15 < dongs> https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32f7-series.html
2019-04-15T16:29:42 < dongs> https://developer.arm.com/ip-products/processors/cortex-m/cortex-m7
2019-04-15T16:29:47 < dongs> "v7-M"
2019-04-15T16:31:41 < icek> dongs, thanks
2019-04-15T16:32:36 < qyx> doongle
2019-04-15T16:33:08 < qyx> type your search query here
2019-04-15T16:33:16 < dongs> ikr?
2019-04-15T16:33:28 < qyx> actually dongs is in a very good mood atm
2019-04-15T16:33:38 < dongs> yes, zyp's shit is actually working out of the box
2019-04-15T16:33:40 < dongs> im impressed
2019-04-15T16:33:53 < dongs> and its working in ~keil~ of all places
2019-04-15T16:33:54 < zyp> I'm impressed myself
2019-04-15T16:34:26 < dongs> so how do i setup 32bit buf for 8bit write?
2019-04-15T16:34:29 < dongs> is it lsb or msb?
2019-04-15T16:34:40 < zyp> lsb
2019-04-15T16:35:04 < zyp> void putchar(uint8_t c) { uint32_t buf = c; ...
2019-04-15T16:35:48 < zyp> I also got some preliminary support for nrf52 now
2019-04-15T16:36:32 < dongs> so i dont need CDC_ACM.process right?
2019-04-15T16:36:35 < zyp> the nrf usb core is kinda overcomplicated and doesn't fit the laks driver API well, but I've got it working somewhat
2019-04-15T16:36:50 < zyp> not if you don't use it for anything, no
2019-04-15T16:36:53 < Thorn> I need to finally add example projects to my usb stack, maybe someone will actually use it
2019-04-15T16:37:12 < zyp> Thorn, and I need to steal all your nice ideas
2019-04-15T16:37:19 < zyp> haven't gotten around to that yet
2019-04-15T16:37:32 < dongs> is thorns usb stack even more retarded C++?
2019-04-15T16:37:32 < zyp> Thorn, which hardware cores do you support yet?
2019-04-15T16:37:55 < dongs> ok i guess i should quickly include CLI stuff into my code so i can actualyl test it
2019-04-15T16:39:14 < Thorn> another state of the art design https://i.imgur.com/w6vVvSI.png
2019-04-15T16:39:50 < zyp> uh, where's the antenna? gonna solder a wire from J6?
2019-04-15T16:39:59 < dongs> yeah
2019-04-15T16:40:17 < Thorn> I bought 50 springs from aliexpress
2019-04-15T16:40:27 < zyp> ah, haha
2019-04-15T16:41:32 < qyx> fuk those springs
2019-04-15T16:41:39 < Thorn> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/50PCS-LOT-868MHZ-Built-in-spring-antenna-2DB-3DB-copper-Gain-impedance-standing-wave-ratio-L/32805063234.html
2019-04-15T16:41:44 < qyx> I did a similar thing
2019-04-15T16:42:14 < qyx> it worked worse than soldering a SMA pigtail there
2019-04-15T16:42:24 < qyx> wit a small whip
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2019-04-15T16:46:08 < Thorn> an SMA connector is huge
2019-04-15T16:46:46 < dongs> well
2019-04-15T16:46:52 < zyp> what about a trace or a chip antenna?
2019-04-15T16:46:53 < dongs> i shouldnt have expeted it to work
2019-04-15T16:46:55 < dongs> :)
2019-04-15T16:47:10 < Thorn> I don't have a VNA :/
2019-04-15T16:47:39 < zyp> I don't think a spring antenna needs any less tuning than a chip antenna :p
2019-04-15T16:47:53 < dongs> aha
2019-04-15T16:47:55 < dongs> in hardfault
2019-04-15T16:48:07 < dongs> with a stack trace of handle_out
2019-04-15T16:48:09 < qyx> of course it does need less
2019-04-15T16:48:13 < qyx> because it tunes itself
2019-04-15T16:48:20 < qyx> when you wave around
2019-04-15T16:48:23 < dongs> oh i know why
2019-04-15T16:49:10 < dongs> ok, it sorta worekd
2019-04-15T16:49:15 < dongs> help
2019-04-15T16:49:15 < dongs>     Available commands:
2019-04-15T16:49:20 < dongs> got here and locked up
2019-04-15T16:49:27 < dongs> but at least it took input, and tried to output somethin
2019-04-15T16:50:44 < qyx> lol I use the same steing in my cli lib
2019-04-15T16:50:48 < qyx> string
2019-04-15T16:51:12 < qyx> and it hardfaults if there is any NULL help string
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2019-04-15T16:51:27 < dongs> wel, that isnt the problem
2019-04-15T16:51:37 < dongs> i think the     while(!usb.ep_ready(1)) {} usb.write(1, &buf, 1);
2019-04-15T16:51:39 < dongs> shit is whats failing
2019-04-15T16:51:48 < dongs> it works for short commands
2019-04-15T16:51:48 < zyp> qyx, don't we all
2019-04-15T16:51:50 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/EjTie
2019-04-15T16:51:52 < dongs> but when i try to spam it fails
2019-04-15T16:54:21 < dongs> hmm, zyp, while i'm, printing a lot of shit, i guess after 64 bytes i'd need to call usb.process rioght?
2019-04-15T16:54:39 < dongs> looks like im gonna have to buffer this trash aafter all?
2019-04-15T16:54:42 < zyp> no
2019-04-15T16:54:52 < dongs> hm htrne why its failing on a long command
2019-04-15T16:55:01 < dongs> lemme try printing some random shit and see exactly how long it takes to fail
2019-04-15T16:55:27 < dongs> hmm, maybe its stack?
2019-04-15T16:55:40 < qyx> zyp https://privatebin.net/?6dee55f2b0ee6045#H2Ufgw0EWfMqEDS0Go9T6Sbf9xR7xxUPHCAYs38aUHQ=
2019-04-15T16:55:44 < qyx> looks like I fixed it
2019-04-15T16:55:53 < zyp> I mean, on the device and bus side it doesn't matter
2019-04-15T16:56:15 < dongs> oh...
2019-04-15T16:56:17 < dongs> duhh
2019-04-15T16:56:18 < zyp> qyx, cute :)
2019-04-15T16:57:04 < zyp> dongs, you'll probably deadlock your device though if it somehow disconnects from the usb in the middle of shit being sent :p
2019-04-15T16:57:10 < dongs> no
2019-04-15T16:57:13 < dongs> problem was my shit
2019-04-15T16:57:19 < dongs> i was actually using printf() but i didn't have a fputc()
2019-04-15T16:57:21 < zyp> yeah, just saying
2019-04-15T16:57:29 < dongs> it was doing BPKT AB shit for semihosting crap
2019-04-15T16:57:33 < zyp> oh, haha
2019-04-15T16:57:50 < dongs> yeah it  fucking works
2019-04-15T16:58:05 < zyp> nice
2019-04-15T16:58:50 < dongs> Program Size: Code=5488 RO-data=732 RW-data=212 ZI-data=1652  
2019-04-15T16:58:55 < dongs> with Oz
2019-04-15T16:59:08 < dongs> and cli and some i2c / etc code
2019-04-15T16:59:18 < zyp> how does that compare to other shit?
2019-04-15T16:59:23 < dongs> uh
2019-04-15T16:59:30 < dongs> i'd supect 'other shit' wouldn't even build in 32k of flash
2019-04-15T16:59:39 < zyp> heh :)
2019-04-15T16:59:45 < dongs> 1574         92         56        191        292      21566   usb.o
2019-04-15T16:59:51 < dongs> 1.5k of code
2019-04-15T16:59:56 < dongs> that should be all of usb.cpp
2019-04-15T16:59:57 < zyp> what did you do with the rblog stuff? did you strip out all the log() calls?
2019-04-15T17:00:00 < dongs> dumped it
2019-04-15T17:00:12 < dongs> i dont need to debug if shit works
2019-04-15T17:00:17 < dongs> so i mass-removed them all
2019-04-15T17:00:28 < zyp> yeah, makes sense
2019-04-15T17:00:49 < zyp> they make up quite much of the size of the stack itself
2019-04-15T17:01:20 < zyp> IIRC I got my bootloader down to like 3.2k of flash after stripping out that
2019-04-15T17:01:20 < dongs> aeyh my problem wasnt stack, i thought it was cuz it was breaking into a longass stack trace
2019-04-15T17:01:46 < zyp> usb stack, I mean, not memory stack
2019-04-15T17:01:54 < dongs> ah right.
2019-04-15T17:01:56 < dongs> well, according to keil map
2019-04-15T17:02:00 < dongs> the shit i built now is only 1.5k
2019-04-15T17:02:03 < dongs> i can definitely live with that
2019-04-15T17:02:40 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/aGJFnZ95.html
2019-04-15T17:03:55 < dongs> most bloated shit is still stdperiphlib
2019-04-15T17:04:20 < dongs> anyway zyp since its a type C thing, i dont care if its unplugged while shit is writing
2019-04-15T17:04:25 < dongs> at that point its already dead anyway
2019-04-15T17:05:00 < zyp> yeah, fair enough
2019-04-15T17:05:09 < dongs> anyway, A+ for laks
2019-04-15T17:05:14 < zyp> yay
2019-04-15T17:05:26 < dongs> lemme see if can turn C++'ish ness down to 11
2019-04-15T17:05:47 < dongs> ok nice
2019-04-15T17:05:49 < dongs> gnuc11 still wroks
2019-04-15T17:05:50 < zyp> you should, I haven't built it with anything newer than c++11 myself
2019-04-15T17:06:19 < dongs> hmm it even works with clang c11
2019-04-15T17:06:21 < dongs> well shit, ok
2019-04-15T17:06:24 < dongs> i guess GPIO was the realyl weird stuff
2019-04-15T17:06:28 < dongs> and i just deleted that anyway
2019-04-15T17:06:36 < qyx> is there a c99 port?
2019-04-15T17:06:44 < qyx> :X
2019-04-15T17:06:46 < dongs> my lib/laks is just rcc and usb folder
2019-04-15T17:06:50 < zyp> idk what was wrong about that, I'll need to look into that at some point
2019-04-15T17:06:53 < dongs> and rcc i could probly easily get rid of
2019-04-15T17:07:02 < mawk> when I write option byte I unlock them, I write, I relock
2019-04-15T17:07:12 < dongs> all it does is turn on the usb bit isnt it?
2019-04-15T17:07:13 < mawk> it hardfaults during the unlock, when writing the second option key
2019-04-15T17:07:34 < dongs> mawk im not aware that you can write option bytes from inside chip
2019-04-15T17:07:38 < dongs> i thought it was only for stdick
2019-04-15T17:07:56 < zyp> I don't think you'll need any special RCC stuff, no
2019-04-15T17:08:13 < mawk> I'm using functions from ST hal so I suppose they let you do it
2019-04-15T17:08:30 < dongs> RCC.enable(RCC.USB); i think thats it?
2019-04-15T17:08:45 < dongs> which is AHBwhateverClock(USB)
2019-04-15T17:09:22 < dongs> RCC_APB1Periph_USB that
2019-04-15T17:10:11 < zyp> yeah
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2019-04-15T17:11:49 < dongs> nice
2019-04-15T17:11:51 < dongs> ok, rcc gone
2019-04-15T17:12:28 < dongs> Program Size: Code=5472 RO-data=732 RW-data=212 ZI-data=1132  
2019-04-15T17:12:29 < dongs> geez
2019-04-15T17:12:35 < dongs> your C++ RCC was using up like 10 extra bytes
2019-04-15T17:12:44 < dongs> 5488 vs 5472
2019-04-15T17:13:03 < zyp> imagine how much you'd save if you threw out stdperiph RCC instead :)
2019-04-15T17:13:15 < dongs> well, actaully i *am* using stdperiph rcc
2019-04-15T17:13:20 < dongs> thats waht i replaced it with
2019-04-15T17:13:24 < zyp> exactly
2019-04-15T17:13:45 < zyp> you saved 10 bytes by throwing out laks RCC, imagine you threw out stdperiph RCC instead :)
2019-04-15T17:13:59 < dongs> oh heh
2019-04-15T17:14:02 < zyp> you presumably had both in the original case
2019-04-15T17:14:07 < dongs> rite
2019-04-15T17:14:46 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/W8PQUq28.html final failure
2019-04-15T17:16:42 < mawk> changing option bytes went fine, the reset problem right after programming is gone
2019-04-15T17:16:49 < zyp> looks resonable enough
2019-04-15T17:16:53 < rajkosto> wouldnt both be just a function that ORs the appropriate clkena register
2019-04-15T17:17:13 < dongs> nah raj, in stdpierilb it will loop through a bunch of shit and do other retarded stuff first
2019-04-15T17:17:17 < dongs> and maybe throw an assert or two
2019-04-15T17:17:49 < mawk> error handling takes extra bytes but saves you hours when you mess things up
2019-04-15T17:18:07 < mawk> and time is money, you want to be rich right
2019-04-15T17:18:16 < zyp> on the other hand, stdperiphlib probably does an actual call, laks probably just inlines the shit
2019-04-15T17:18:23 < dongs> ^ yes this
2019-04-15T17:18:36 < dongs> so if i have a bunch of calls it ends up being smaller
2019-04-15T17:18:41 < dongs> since the function is only there once
2019-04-15T17:19:04 < mawk> you didn't let that to the compiler zyp ? you inlined forcefully ?
2019-04-15T17:19:23 < mawk> with __attribute__((__always_inline__)) or copy pasting code
2019-04-15T17:19:38 < rajkosto> with LTO on the compiler should inline the stdperiph one too
2019-04-15T17:19:43 < dongs> why dont you take a look at his shit
2019-04-15T17:19:47 < dongs> isntead o asking
2019-04-15T17:19:55 < dongs> i just deleted the rcc folder so i couldnt tell you :p
2019-04-15T17:20:16 < dongs> ok china replied about the shit chip im trying to interface
2019-04-15T17:20:18 < dongs> lets see how it works
2019-04-15T17:20:23 < zyp> mawk, I'm not forcing the compiler to inline, but the function is so small it'd make no sense for the compiler not to if it inlines at all
2019-04-15T17:20:40 < rajkosto> how do you get china to reply if not writing in chinese from a qq account
2019-04-15T17:20:54 < dongs> skills
2019-04-15T17:22:05 < zyp> dongs, fun part is that you now have usb code that'll work on nrf52 also, should you ever wish to use that for something :p
2019-04-15T17:22:22 < zyp> assuming laks usb api doesn't change before then :p
2019-04-15T17:28:16 < dongs> fuuck
2019-04-15T17:28:19 < dongs> dumb china
2019-04-15T17:28:47 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/1MF77DD.png
2019-04-15T17:28:57 < dongs> how would you implement the "read 16 bytes" bit
2019-04-15T17:29:15 < dongs> i just did a fucking i2cread(address, len)
2019-04-15T17:29:41 < dongs> but apparently i am supposed to do a repeat start read, addr+w, subaddr, start, addr+r, read * 16
2019-04-15T17:29:52 < dongs> but there's no indication what subadress to read shit back from tho...
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2019-04-15T17:32:27 < bitmask> nerves are kicking in
2019-04-15T17:32:31 < bitmask> today is the day
2019-04-15T17:32:37 < bitmask> good morning
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2019-04-15T17:47:19 < dongs> Build and Program FPGA-Based Designs Quickly with Python and Jupyter Notebooks
2019-04-15T17:47:20 < dongs> gross.
2019-04-15T17:47:53 -!- Streake_ [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-15T17:49:26 < aandrew> lol
2019-04-15T17:49:39 < aandrew> I really dislike all these "bring high level languages to FPGAs" that are popping up
2019-04-15T17:49:44 < dongs> yea
2019-04-15T17:49:48 < dongs> i blame opensores
2019-04-15T17:50:02 < dongs> tehy're the reason hello_world() in vivado takes 5 hours to compile
2019-04-15T17:50:04 < aandrew> fuck man, did I tell you my struggle getting an RGMII system up?
2019-04-15T17:50:20 < dongs> RGMII from stm32?
2019-04-15T17:50:42 < aandrew> dongs: no, vivado is shit (as are all other vendor tools) but I agree with you that the "let's pull in 1000000 external libs so you don't ahve to worry about anything and can write shitty python for your FPGA" is cancer
2019-04-15T17:50:46 < aandrew> no
2019-04-15T17:50:47 < aandrew> RGMII on 10M25
2019-04-15T17:51:55 < dongs> ok. enough wank for today. stuff works, and i need to wait reply back from china bout the subaddress shit
2019-04-15T17:52:03 < dongs> i didnt expect them to email me at like midngiht anyway
2019-04-15T17:52:05 < bitmask> grrr, damn ebay seller didnt accept my 75% refund offer, max they will go is 30%
2019-04-15T17:52:10 < dongs> their FAEs must be actually ~working~
2019-04-15T17:52:12 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2019-04-15T17:52:19 < zyp> bitmask, wat
2019-04-15T17:52:32 < dongs> he bought useless shit on ebay
2019-04-15T17:52:34 < dongs> tried to refund
2019-04-15T17:52:34 < zyp> refunds should be 100%, not 75% or 30%
2019-04-15T17:52:36 < dongs> seller said fuck off
2019-04-15T17:52:44 < dongs> yeah but hes probly trying to refund a $1 item
2019-04-15T17:52:49 < aandrew> a 70% restocking fee is insane
2019-04-15T17:53:17 < zyp> who the fuck even bothers returning ebay items?
2019-04-15T17:53:33 < dongs> brokebitches
2019-04-15T17:53:52 < bitmask> no thats the thing, I don't want to have to send it back, I just want my money :P
2019-04-15T17:54:05 < aandrew> haha
2019-04-15T17:54:07 < zyp> why do you want your money back?
2019-04-15T17:54:10 < dongs> so youre basically a thieving faggot
2019-04-15T17:54:12 < zyp> is it broken?
2019-04-15T17:54:14 < bitmask> I bought a shitty ip cam, it was still $25 so I thought it would at least work
2019-04-15T17:54:34 < dongs> bitmask, xioami ptz ipcam is like $30
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2019-04-15T17:54:46 < dongs> all you had to do was buy chink shit that isnt 100% AIDS
2019-04-15T17:55:03 < bitmask> it says 1080p, I opened it up and the SoC it uses can only do 720p which I checked with the recording files
2019-04-15T17:55:05 < bitmask> plus auto night mode doesnt work
2019-04-15T17:55:15 < bitmask> and 1/4 of the files are corrupt when it records
2019-04-15T17:55:19 < bitmask> fucking trash
2019-04-15T17:55:22 < zyp> ah, so you bought shit
2019-04-15T17:55:28 < aandrew> yeah I like my ip cameras. no ptz but outdoor rated
2019-04-15T17:55:37 < aandrew> been on the house runnign 24/7 for 3y
2019-04-15T17:55:45 < aandrew> the only downside is the fucking spider webs
2019-04-15T17:55:51 < bitmask> I just wanted something small to see if my gf's crazy uncle was rummaging through our room when we werent here
2019-04-15T17:55:57 < zyp> aandrew, what model?
2019-04-15T17:56:07 < dongs> i like my jewbunto cams
2019-04-15T17:56:11 < dongs> G3 or whatever
2019-04-15T17:56:14 < bitmask> but when 1/4 of the files dont open and night mode doesnt work its useless
2019-04-15T17:56:24 < bitmask> then on top they lied about resolution
2019-04-15T17:56:27 < aandrew> zyp: one moment I'll find the ali link
2019-04-15T17:56:29 < zyp> dongs, yeah, that's what I'd buy too
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2019-04-15T17:56:54 < bitmask> this is a common cheap ip soc so Im gonna try 'hacking' it
2019-04-15T17:57:04 < bitmask> see if I can get something useable out of it
2019-04-15T17:57:08 < bitmask> and just get the 30% back and call it a loss
2019-04-15T17:57:46 < zyp> haha
2019-04-15T17:57:54 < zyp> if you buy shit, expect shit
2019-04-15T17:58:07 < bitmask> I didnt expect it to be this much shit for $25
2019-04-15T17:58:08 < dongs> yeah for real, i mean, ezxpecting actual 1080p from a china 1080p cam
2019-04-15T17:58:16 < dongs> at fucking BEST i'd expect like upscaled 720p
2019-04-15T17:58:23 < dongs> with a sensor barely able to do 480p
2019-04-15T17:58:36 < zyp> $25 doesn't sound like a lot to me
2019-04-15T17:58:41 < bitmask> its not a lot
2019-04-15T17:58:53 < bitmask> but it sounds like a range of a working product, no?
2019-04-15T17:59:02 < dongs> not really
2019-04-15T17:59:07 < zyp> no, it sounds like you got what you paid for
2019-04-15T17:59:11 < dongs> ^^^^^^
2019-04-15T17:59:17 < bitmask> Im starting to understand the shitty-ness of china
2019-04-15T17:59:22 < bitmask> ok then
2019-04-15T17:59:26 < bitmask> guess I learned my lesson
2019-04-15T17:59:27 < aandrew> zyp: doesn't exist anymore apparently but from marvio and not wifi (poe): https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/x/1758182_32763605090.html
2019-04-15T17:59:45 < dongs> yea looks like G3 clones
2019-04-15T17:59:51 < aandrew> the new ones are h.265 and slightly higher res
2019-04-15T17:59:59 < aandrew> but I still get firmware updates for the cameras, amazingly
2019-04-15T18:00:26 < bitmask> https://www.ebay.com/itm/264239732824
2019-04-15T18:00:47 < aandrew> bought direct from marvio on ali. been a good experience
2019-04-15T18:00:52 < bitmask> its no where near as small as the pic shows either hah
2019-04-15T18:00:58 < dongs> lmao
2019-04-15T18:00:59 < aandrew> I have 7 cameras from them
2019-04-15T18:01:03 < bitmask> but its still a nice size
2019-04-15T18:01:19 < bitmask> I knew from other sources that it wasnt that size though, shoulda extrapolated from there that the rest was lies
2019-04-15T18:01:32 < dongs> imagine how garbo the included "32"gb microsd is
2019-04-15T18:01:35 < dongs> it only adds like $2 to price
2019-04-15T18:01:47 < bitmask> I opted to get my own sandisk
2019-04-15T18:01:51 < dongs> its probly one of those fake 32gb shtis thats just a ringbuffer of like 16megs
2019-04-15T18:01:53 < aandrew> my requirements were 1080p, poe and ip66
2019-04-15T18:02:23 < bitmask> although who knows if I got a legit sandisk, the world is lies!
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2019-04-15T18:03:38 < zyp> bitmask, better get one of these next time: https://www.eurodk.com/en/products/unifi-video/unifi-video-camera-g4-pro
2019-04-15T18:04:03 < bitmask> yea, I really wanted something small though
2019-04-15T18:04:21 < zyp> https://www.eurodk.com/en/products/unifi-video/unifi-video-camera-g3-micro <- like this?
2019-04-15T18:05:40 < bitmask> well the thing is, I'm hopefully moving soon and don't need to spy on my gf's uncle, so id buy legit stuff for a new place for security, the thing I got was perfect for what I wanted if it just worked a little better, I'm not buying anything else for now
2019-04-15T18:06:49 < jadew```> bitmask, what tipped you off that he might be going through your stuff?
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2019-04-15T18:07:18 < jadew> also, what are you planning to do if you find out he is actually doing that?
2019-04-15T18:08:42 < bitmask> when I was a mess a while ago I hid alcohol in my underwear drawer, It was just in there for a day or two and he randomly came out and asked if I was drinking before work.  I've also seen him going through other peoples rooms in the house when they arent home. hes weird
2019-04-15T18:08:49 < bitmask> just bring it up to him, tell him to stop
2019-04-15T18:09:11 < zyp> bitmask, say, how old are you?
2019-04-15T18:09:32 < jadew> why would you hide alcohol?
2019-04-15T18:09:42 < aandrew> $500 for an ip security camera? lol
2019-04-15T18:09:47 < aandrew> for those with more money than brains
2019-04-15T18:09:59 < zyp> jadew, people too young to drink legally naturally do that
2019-04-15T18:10:03 < zyp> hence my question
2019-04-15T18:10:05 < jadew> ah
2019-04-15T18:10:08 < bitmask> I'm 35 now, and finally growed up
2019-04-15T18:10:17 < bitmask> I was hiding it from my gf...
2019-04-15T18:10:19 < zyp> wait, what, are you 35?
2019-04-15T18:10:21 < jadew> you're older than me, lol
2019-04-15T18:10:24 < bitmask> as I said, I was a mess
2019-04-15T18:10:28 < zyp> I thought you were younger than me
2019-04-15T18:10:32 < jadew> me too
2019-04-15T18:10:50 < jadew> zyp, how old are you?
2019-04-15T18:11:04 < bitmask> it took me a while to get my shit together, even somewhat together, drugs do that
2019-04-15T18:11:06 < zyp> 31 last I checked
2019-04-15T18:11:09 < aandrew> aha https://www.aliexpress.com/item/x/32766575257.html is the newer version
2019-04-15T18:11:19 < bitmask> way to make me feel like shit though :P thanks guys
2019-04-15T18:11:23 < invzim> meh, jlc/lcsc doesn't do combined shipping anymore it seems
2019-04-15T18:11:43 < karlp> aandrew:except that's not available :)
2019-04-15T18:11:43 < qyx> fuk you, I had to compute how old I am
2019-04-15T18:11:47 < aandrew> wtf? ugh
2019-04-15T18:12:06 < karlp> aandrew: sok, I'm not buying them anyway, was just looking at the urls
2019-04-15T18:12:20  * karlp is having a big birthday year.
2019-04-15T18:12:40 < jadew> invzim, they might if you ask them
2019-04-15T18:12:41 < bitmask> 40? 50? those are big ones
2019-04-15T18:12:55 < karlp> 30 is big too, but yeah, one of those two :)
2019-04-15T18:13:11 < invzim> jadew: needed something quick before the holidays, seems like I'll get nothing until after easter
2019-04-15T18:13:17 < aandrew> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/x/32872212127.html looks like an identical rebrand
2019-04-15T18:13:25  * invzim oldest at 44? :)
2019-04-15T18:13:29 < karlp> mawk:thanks for france: https://soundcloud.com/radiocampus/rebeka-warrior-exclusive-mix-campus-club
2019-04-15T18:13:33 < aandrew> 30 didn't do shit. 40 didn't do shit. I just don't really give a shit on my birthday
2019-04-15T18:13:40 < aandrew> invzim: I'm right behind you. 43 this year
2019-04-15T18:13:42 < jadew> damn... looks like everyone here is NOT young
2019-04-15T18:13:57 < invzim> my wife is young so it's ok :)
2019-04-15T18:13:57 < jadew> we're quickly turning into ##hamradio
2019-04-15T18:14:02 < karlp> hah hardly.
2019-04-15T18:14:04 < bitmask> I gotta figure out how I'm gonna retire when I wasted the first 15 years of my adult life doing heroin and not saving money
2019-04-15T18:14:09 < karlp> that's like double the age.
2019-04-15T18:14:25 < karlp> bitmask: you're doign ok if you're evne considering retirement at 35 compared to many people :)
2019-04-15T18:14:39 < kakimir> how do I halt the target when I launch openocd
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2019-04-15T18:14:44 < bitmask> I'll be 80 when I can retire :P
2019-04-15T18:14:49 < qyx> kakimir: try halt
2019-04-15T18:14:50 < kakimir> I cannot just -c "halt"
2019-04-15T18:14:51 < bitmask> I really hope I get this job
2019-04-15T18:15:01 < kakimir> I use telnet thingy
2019-04-15T18:15:03 < bitmask> it will be my first full time job, real job
2019-04-15T18:15:07 < invzim> or do the sane thing, use truestudio + segger and press pause :)
2019-04-15T18:15:18 < qyx> kakimir: did you try halt in the telnet thingy?
2019-04-15T18:15:44 < bitmask> any tips for a second interview? I'm meeting the co-owner today
2019-04-15T18:15:59 < kakimir> hmm I don't use it directly
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2019-04-15T18:17:13 < jadew> bitmask, don't tell him about the drugs
2019-04-15T18:17:21 < bitmask> haha yea i figured that out already
2019-04-15T18:17:35 < bitmask> wow, I got one of those blue silicone work mats, its real nice
2019-04-15T18:17:59 < jadew> ESD?
2019-04-15T18:18:30 < jadew> I have one that burns quite easily
2019-04-15T18:18:31 < bitmask> I dont think so, I forgot about that :P
2019-04-15T18:18:45 < jadew> (it's not silicone)
2019-04-15T18:19:35 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ESPLB-S-140-Heat-Insulation-Silicone-Pad-Desk-Mat-35x25cm-Soldering-Repair-Station-with-Screw-Location/32864020422.html
2019-04-15T18:20:14 < jadew> right, I wanted to buy one to cut it up and make silicone jaws for my vise
2019-04-15T18:20:45 < jadew> I think I'll just do my own mold when the time comes
2019-04-15T18:21:30 < bitmask> I cant wait to have a workshop
2019-04-15T18:22:45 < zyp> it's interesting how people's ages doesn't always correlate well with the impression I'm getting from talking to them
2019-04-15T18:23:03 < bitmask> I get it, I'm immature, move on :P
2019-04-15T18:23:34 < zyp> not thinking about you in particular
2019-04-15T18:23:44 < zyp> also surprised to hear invzim being 44
2019-04-15T18:24:52 < jadew> sounds like we're all grown men
2019-04-15T18:24:58 < jadew> we should meet sometime
2019-04-15T18:25:10 < karlp> some of us did, so I hear.
2019-04-15T18:25:18 < jadew> yeah
2019-04-15T18:27:52 < qyx> zyp: what impression yre you getting while talking to me
2019-04-15T18:28:21 < qyx> also, unrelated, I have some occassional SPI mis-bits
2019-04-15T18:28:32 < jadew> qyx, 30+
2019-04-15T18:28:40 < jadew> (sounds like a good guess for this channel anyway)
2019-04-15T18:29:12 < qyx> I am getting 0x004010 instead of 0x014014
2019-04-15T18:29:50 < jadew> clock too fast?
2019-04-15T18:29:53 < zyp> qyx, I don't have any reason to believe you're much younger or older than me, so I'd guess early thirties-ish
2019-04-15T18:30:33 < qyx> it is interesting, we are all thirties-ish
2019-04-15T18:30:38 < zyp> but I also don't remember much about you personally, so that's not a very solid basis
2019-04-15T18:30:43 < qyx> dongs is 50, invzim 44
2019-04-15T18:30:56 < qyx> 31-1mo
2019-04-15T18:31:11 < Thorn> I'm PWMing 12V using SO8 dual mosfets. can I use a fast acting SMD glass fuse to protect those mosfets from a short circuit? or will the mosfet protect the fuse instead? nominal mode is 12V, 5-6A
2019-04-15T18:31:14 < bitmask> my cheap stm32f030's came in, wonder if they explode
2019-04-15T18:31:46 < karlp> are you going to have to resolder the glass fuse anyway?
2019-04-15T18:31:53 < Thorn> I don't think anyone cloned f0 yet
2019-04-15T18:31:59 < qyx> Thorn: lm5060 or such thing I would use
2019-04-15T18:32:09 < kakimir> Error: unknown reset_config flag (sysresetreq)
2019-04-15T18:32:14 < bitmask> really? hmm
2019-04-15T18:32:24 < qyx> or there are others, it monitors voltage drop across the fet and pulls-down the gate
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2019-04-15T18:33:11 < Thorn> qyx: 6 channels in total, I'd prefer 1-2 protection devices/circuits instead of 6
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2019-04-15T18:34:47 < qyx> mhm PTC is probably not an option for 6A
2019-04-15T18:34:59 < Thorn> that's what I figured lol
2019-04-15T18:35:04 < qyx> although there are such things in battery packs
2019-04-15T18:36:37 < Thorn> 6 channels * 2 A, in 2 groups (3 mosfets/group) each fed by a separate thick trace, so 2 fuses would be ideal
2019-04-15T18:37:20 < qyx> okay, with spi mode 1,1 I get 0x010004 
2019-04-15T18:37:23 < Thorn> with I nominal = 6A each
2019-04-15T18:38:52 < qyx> ok, time to pull out the scope
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2019-04-15T19:02:48 < Steffanx> Damn i suddenly feel young again when I see your ages :D
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2019-04-15T19:08:58 < qyx> how young is Steffanx 
2019-04-15T19:11:44 < karlp> he was only 19....
2019-04-15T19:11:47 < kakimir> got xmc1100 debugging work with openocd
2019-04-15T19:11:54 < kakimir> adapter_khz 20
2019-04-15T19:12:03 < karlp> wat
2019-04-15T19:12:07 < kakimir> what a mess
2019-04-15T19:12:11 < kakimir> 10 was not good
2019-04-15T19:12:13 < karlp> are you debugging over wet dental floss?
2019-04-15T19:12:21 < kakimir> basically
2019-04-15T19:13:13 < kakimir> interesting that it didn't work with 10
2019-04-15T19:13:16 < kakimir> or 100
2019-04-15T19:13:18 < kakimir> but 20
2019-04-15T19:13:22 < kakimir> that's golden
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2019-04-15T19:14:22 < Steffanx> Ten years ago i was, yes karlp
2019-04-15T19:15:02 < Steffanx> So 29 qyx 
2019-04-15T19:16:16 < jadew> there are a couple of younger folks in here I think
2019-04-15T19:16:21 < jadew> the ones still going to school
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2019-04-15T19:28:33 < qyx> found my SPI problem, SX1231 was holding the MISO line low because its CS was low
2019-04-15T19:28:50 < bitmask> T-2 hours
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2019-04-15T19:33:20 < aandrew> qyx: well you told it it has control over the pin :-)
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2019-04-15T19:45:45 < bitmask> I'm already thinking about how to slack off at work
2019-04-15T19:46:37 < bitmask> if they monitor your web activity then you can bring in a rPi that connects to a mobile hotspot (your phone) just gotta figure out the best way to use it from there
2019-04-15T19:48:29 < Thorn> how old do you think I am?
2019-04-15T19:50:02 < zyp> bitmask, wat
2019-04-15T19:50:18 < bitmask> I wasn't being serious so dont even worry about it
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2019-04-15T19:50:38 < zyp> if you're gonna dick around on your phone at work, why not just use the phone itself?
2019-04-15T19:50:54 < bitmask> I hate web browsing on my phone
2019-04-15T19:53:26 < bitmask> what gives a material a hydrophobic property
2019-04-15T19:54:26 < qyx> Thorn: mhm 35
2019-04-15T19:54:58 < qyx> bitmask: wax spray, teflon spray maybe
2019-04-15T19:55:15 < bitmask> yea, but what about it makes it hydrophobic
2019-04-15T19:55:17 < qyx> there are things sold for antenna radomes to prevent acumulating freeze
2019-04-15T19:56:13 < bitmask> is it chemical? is it physical? 
2019-04-15T19:56:48 < karlp> thorn's like braindamaage, no clear idea how old they are...
2019-04-15T19:56:52 <@englishman> aandrew: what are you paying tax on? as a business owning canuck you should be paying exactly zero
2019-04-15T19:57:29 <@englishman> last year Trudeau wrote me a cheque for like $15k of sales tax return
2019-04-15T19:57:43 <@englishman> felt good taking that sucker's money
2019-04-15T20:11:09 < Steffanx> You shouldve come to switzerland karlp. He was there :P
2019-04-15T20:11:17 < karlp> Steffanx:yeah, another time :)
2019-04-15T20:11:22 < mawk> you're a techno enthusiast karlp ?
2019-04-15T20:11:23 < karlp> I would hav eliked to, but wasn't going to work out.
2019-04-15T20:11:42 < karlp> music mostly, but yes, quite a bit of techno too :)
2019-04-15T20:14:53 < Thorn> notre dame de paris is kaputt https://www.instagram.com/leflorelena/
2019-04-15T20:15:32 < Steffanx> awh
2019-04-15T20:15:34 < mawk> indeed
2019-04-15T20:15:46 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/Solwii/status/1117838050342645760?s=19
2019-04-15T20:15:57 < mawk> because they were renovating the building
2019-04-15T20:16:00 < Steffanx> Can you see it mawk?
2019-04-15T20:16:19 < mawk> no too far from where I am
2019-04-15T20:16:24 < mawk> there are too much building troubling the sight
2019-04-15T20:16:32 < mawk> even though skyscrappers are forbidden in the city
2019-04-15T20:19:08 < bitmask> I'm gettin good at this ironing thing
2019-04-15T20:19:44 < mawk> I have no-iron shirts
2019-04-15T20:19:59 < mawk> because nowadays even a girlfriend isn't enough to get your shirts magically ironed
2019-04-15T20:20:03 < bitmask> I need to replace my whole wardrobe
2019-04-15T20:20:04 < Steffanx> lol did you get the job or .. is that still on going mr bitmask?
2019-04-15T20:20:16 < bitmask> the second interview is in an hour
2019-04-15T20:21:50 < Steffanx> aha
2019-04-15T20:26:41 < Steffanx> Good luck mr bitmask
2019-04-15T20:29:57 < bitmask> thank you sir
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2019-04-15T20:37:33 < karlp> hah, turns out "flybuck" is what I'v ebeen looking for.
2019-04-15T20:37:53 < karlp> and many buck regualtors can do this by just using a "coupled inductor" aka 1:1 transofrmer for the right inductance.
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2019-04-15T21:19:12 < Steffanx> I
2019-04-15T21:20:52 < mawk> U
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2019-04-15T21:21:05 < Steffanx> Whops
2019-04-15T21:22:56 < Steffanx> Better survive this huge fire mawk 
2019-04-15T21:24:00 < mawk> yeah they'll put it out
2019-04-15T21:24:04 < mawk> too bad for this piece of art
2019-04-15T21:24:10 < mawk> at least they saved the statues
2019-04-15T21:25:58 < mawk> trump advised to use canadair planes
2019-04-15T21:25:58 < mawk> lol
2019-04-15T21:29:51 < Steffanx> He also adviced to rebrand the max 8
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2019-04-15T21:31:12 < mawk> lol
2019-04-15T21:35:51 < aandrew> englishman: you don't pay income tax?
2019-04-15T21:36:03 < aandrew> I get all my HST back as long as I can pass it on to the next sucker
2019-04-15T21:36:15 < Steffanx> Pretty cool photo though De Tweet bekijken van @annakaminova: https://twitter.com/annakaminova/status/1117850047733882880?s=09
2019-04-15T21:36:40 < Steffanx> Hpmf the dutch text
2019-04-15T21:36:59 < mawk> kijk means cake obviously
2019-04-15T21:37:41 < Steffanx> No cake means cake.
2019-04-15T21:37:46 < Steffanx> Kijk means look
2019-04-15T21:38:08 < Steffanx> Or "to see" 
2019-04-15T21:38:27 < Steffanx> > kijken
2019-04-15T21:38:48 <@englishman> aandrew: income tax yeah a little bit but not much
2019-04-15T21:38:59 <@englishman> oh true idk how hst works
2019-04-15T21:39:28 <@englishman> with gst and qst all taxes on inputs are zero rated even if it's not for resale
2019-04-15T21:39:38 <@englishman> so when I buy a car or equipment, no sales tax
2019-04-15T21:39:53 < aandrew> interesting
2019-04-15T21:39:58 < aandrew> must be different in ontario
2019-04-15T21:40:04 <@englishman> shrug
2019-04-15T21:40:05 < aandrew> my wife is a cpa, I let her do it
2019-04-15T21:40:07 < aandrew> deal with it
2019-04-15T21:40:56 <@englishman> I guess tectu is gone forever
2019-04-15T21:41:22 <@englishman> far to important to deal with us lowlife chatters
2019-04-15T21:42:25 <@englishman> notre dame collapsed wow
2019-04-15T21:42:34 < qyx> old
2019-04-15T21:42:41 <@englishman> are there any reasons left to go to france?
2019-04-15T21:42:45 <@englishman> I can't think of any
2019-04-15T21:42:50 < Mangy_Dog> has it actually collapsed?
2019-04-15T21:43:12 < qyx> yes
2019-04-15T21:43:14 <@englishman> Flames burst through the roof of the centuries-old cathedral and quickly engulfed the spire, which collapsed.
2019-04-15T21:43:16 < Mangy_Dog> links? D:
2019-04-15T21:43:24 < Mangy_Dog> the wires come down yes
2019-04-15T21:43:26 <@englishman> www.google.com
2019-04-15T21:44:04 < Steffanx> who is tectu, englishman?
2019-04-15T21:44:09 <@englishman> ikr
2019-04-15T21:44:28 < NVIRQ> hooooooly...
2019-04-15T21:44:42 <@englishman> from depressive chatter to depressive billionaire swiss businessman
2019-04-15T21:44:50 <@englishman> what a meteoric rise
2019-04-15T21:45:02 < Steffanx> something liek that
2019-04-15T21:45:26 < NVIRQ> oh, it looks like scaffolding was around it. wonder if it was being worked on... just going through twitter now
2019-04-15T21:46:16 < Steffanx> He stalks me on whatsapp sometimes, it seems he is alive, englishman.
2019-04-15T21:46:44 <@englishman> a lot of yuros and people from other poor countries use whatsapp
2019-04-15T21:46:54 < Steffanx> Sure.
2019-04-15T21:46:57 <@englishman> it didn't let me sign up cuz I don't have a real phone
2019-04-15T21:47:00 <@englishman> kinda dumb
2019-04-15T21:48:32 < mawk> there's still the eiffel tower englishman 
2019-04-15T21:48:39 < mawk> that thing won't catch fire
2019-04-15T21:48:44 < qyx> I hope the workers went from the scafolding directly to belize
2019-04-15T21:48:51 < mawk> even though it's hideous
2019-04-15T21:48:56 < mawk> lol
2019-04-15T21:49:25 <@englishman> the best part of going to see the eiffel tower was
2019-04-15T21:50:01 < Steffanx> the stairs down?
2019-04-15T21:50:10 < Steffanx> and the feeling you got when you walked them all (down) ?
2019-04-15T21:50:15 < Steffanx> the achievement.
2019-04-15T21:50:17 < mawk> chinese making wedding pictures at the bottom of it
2019-04-15T21:50:30 < mawk> it's crowded with chinese in wedding suits and dresses
2019-04-15T21:51:02 < Steffanx> and romas with pieced of papers asking for money.
2019-04-15T21:51:21 <@englishman> and bridges so laden with locks that they collapse
2019-04-15T21:51:53 < mawk> they removed the locks for that yeah I guess
2019-04-15T21:52:00 < mawk> but that's not having a lot of trust on bridge engineer
2019-04-15T21:52:01 < mawk> s
2019-04-15T21:52:02 < jadew> wow, that was a big fire
2019-04-15T21:52:07 < mawk> it's over ?
2019-04-15T21:52:32 < jadew> if it's still not over, their firefighting department sucks
2019-04-15T21:52:49 < jadew> is there a live feed?
2019-04-15T21:53:05 < mawk> https://www.rtl.fr/actu/justice-faits-divers/paris-un-incendie-majeur-est-en-cours-a-notre-dame-7797435400
2019-04-15T21:53:22 < mawk> the last interesting news is trump's tweet
2019-04-15T21:53:34 < mawk> after that it's leftist city officials mourning in the media
2019-04-15T21:53:55 < mawk> so it's not over yet
2019-04-15T21:55:13 < jadew> some worker did something wrong?
2019-04-15T21:55:22 < mawk> I guess yes
2019-04-15T21:55:26 < mawk> they were working on it atm
2019-04-15T21:55:29 < Steffanx> Shit happens...
2019-04-15T21:55:33 < mawk> maybe it's on purpose
2019-04-15T21:55:40 < jadew> just give him the bill
2019-04-15T21:55:44 < Steffanx> lol.
2019-04-15T21:55:44 < mawk> it wouldn't be the first church burning
2019-04-15T21:55:49 < mawk> but that's quite a big church to burn 
2019-04-15T21:56:30 < Steffanx> For some reason it seems they werent prepared for a fire like this anyway.
2019-04-15T21:56:38 < jadew> yeah
2019-04-15T21:56:46 < Steffanx> like 1 water jet thingy?
2019-04-15T21:57:09 < jadew> how long did it take for the fire to get that big?
2019-04-15T21:57:19 < mawk> 2-3 hours now
2019-04-15T21:57:28 < jadew> I mean before the collapse
2019-04-15T21:57:31 < jadew> 2 hours??
2019-04-15T21:57:33 < jadew> wtf...
2019-04-15T21:57:35 < mawk> yeah 2 hours maybe
2019-04-15T21:57:39 < mawk> it's very old wood, from around 1200
2019-04-15T21:57:44 < jadew> so they practically let it burn?
2019-04-15T21:57:44 < mawk> it's hard to operate in this
2019-04-15T21:57:59 < jadew> jeez...
2019-04-15T21:58:18 < mawk> well that's how fires are dealt with here
2019-04-15T21:58:23 < mawk> but not for monuments I hope
2019-04-15T21:58:31 < jadew> they let them follow their course?
2019-04-15T21:58:36 < Steffanx> its a perfect oven. Large thick walls, lots of wood inside.
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2019-04-15T22:00:45 < kakimir> could I get internets over serial to my raspi
2019-04-15T22:00:58 < kakimir> from win10 machine
2019-04-15T22:01:24 < jadew> I know for sure that it worked on win3.1
2019-04-15T22:01:29 < Steffanx> propably.. but WHYYY?
2019-04-15T22:01:39 < kakimir> I borrowed my ethernet usb adapter
2019-04-15T22:02:50 < kakimir> in finnish it's called nollamodeemikaapeli
2019-04-15T22:03:04 < kakimir> when you connect 2 computers ie. with rs232
2019-04-15T22:03:10 < kakimir> and have ip over it
2019-04-15T22:03:44 < mawk> null modem cable ?
2019-04-15T22:03:45 < Steffanx> Get a new adapter for euro?
2019-04-15T22:04:11 < jadew> an usb wifi adapter must be like $5
2019-04-15T22:04:28 < kakimir> that is the problem
2019-04-15T22:04:31 < Steffanx> lol what was semi-fast https://media.dumpert.nl/foto/e972cc6e_328f1fe0_f9d6_402e_a6e6_2fc4d098c237.jpg.jpg
2019-04-15T22:04:36 < kakimir> to get wifi going
2019-04-15T22:04:41 < Steffanx> for the GoT fans
2019-04-15T22:04:57 < jadew> hah, nice
2019-04-15T22:05:33 < aandrew> wt
2019-04-15T22:05:34 < aandrew> wtf
2019-04-15T22:05:38 < aandrew> flash banks
2019-04-15T22:05:45 < aandrew> #0 : stm32f7x.flash (stm32f2x) at 0x08000000, size 0x00100000, buswidth 0, chipwidth 0
2019-04-15T22:06:00 < aandrew> flash erase_check 0
2019-04-15T22:06:09 < aandrew> successfully checked erase state #  0: 0x00000000 (0x8000 32kB) not erased #  1: 0x00008000 (0x8000 32kB) not erased #  5: 0x00040000 (0x40000 256kB) not erased
2019-04-15T22:06:15 < aandrew> that's not one bank
2019-04-15T22:06:23 < aandrew> the probe seems to have failed
2019-04-15T22:07:54 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lneNjVvsgwc
2019-04-15T22:07:58 < jadew> fire still going
2019-04-15T22:08:06 < jadew> is there a reason they're not putting it out?
2019-04-15T22:10:58 < Steffanx> probably because they cant
2019-04-15T22:20:57 < aandrew> yeah that's my guess
2019-04-15T22:21:02 < aandrew> it would be out if they could
2019-04-15T22:21:20 < aandrew> how'd you like to be known as the dude who burned notre dame down?
2019-04-15T22:22:02 < Steffanx> Would it get me in the ellen degeneres show?
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2019-04-15T22:39:45 < catphish> hello sirs
2019-04-15T22:44:17 < Steffanx> Hello mr catphish. Hows the day
2019-04-15T22:45:45 < bitmask> blah
2019-04-15T22:45:58 < bitmask> that was quick and I couldnt get a read on the guy, I dont know if that went very well
2019-04-15T22:46:52 < catphish> Steffanx: today is rather productive thank you :)
2019-04-15T22:47:29 < karlp> mawk:my understanding of removing locks isn't about the weight of them, but the galvanic corrosion they cause
2019-04-15T22:48:28 < mawk> ah, I see
2019-04-15T22:48:47 < mawk> now they took the locks and put them in an art exhibit
2019-04-15T22:48:49 < karlp> clearly romania needs to be exporting firefighting skills jadew. if rom just always gets every fire out in 2 hours I can think of 194 other countries that would love to hear your secrets
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2019-04-15T22:54:12 < Steffanx> Damn, when did (this level of)sarcasm enter you live karlp?
2019-04-15T22:54:16 < Steffanx> life.
2019-04-15T22:54:33  * karlp shrugs
2019-04-15T22:56:10 < karlp> I thought I was being quite nice about jadews firefighting remarks :)
2019-04-15T22:56:34 < karlp> I could have said something like, "maybe nothign in romania takes longer than two hours to burn to the ground" ro something instead :)
2019-04-15T22:57:24 < zyp> that's probably the actual reason :)
2019-04-15T22:57:47 < zyp> or I mean, that's the joke I meant to make before karlp did
2019-04-15T22:58:55  * karlp giggles.
2019-04-15T23:00:43 < Steffanx> Yet It was just an observastion i made :P
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2019-04-15T23:03:39 < catphish> i have a question about i2s is anyone has nothing better to do with their miserable lives
2019-04-15T23:04:19 < zyp> just state the question :p
2019-04-15T23:04:56 < Steffanx> is your life miserable catphish?
2019-04-15T23:05:58 < catphish> i'm looking at a combo I2S ADC+DAC, PCM3060, it seems fairly simple but i can't quite get my head around how its clocks work, specifically, it seems to have a "system" clock, i don't really understand the relationship between this and the data clocks
2019-04-15T23:06:34 < zyp> you mean the chip has a system clock?
2019-04-15T23:07:12 < zyp> ah, the SCKI pins?
2019-04-15T23:07:21 < catphish> it has an ADC and a DAC, each one has an I2S bit clock (which i plan to drive from an stm32), but also a "system" clock
2019-04-15T23:07:30 < zyp> hang on, looking
2019-04-15T23:07:37 < catphish> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm3060.pdf
2019-04-15T23:07:45 < zyp> alrady got that open
2019-04-15T23:08:20 < catphish> i think page 22 explains it actually
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2019-04-15T23:08:51 < catphish> i'm planning to run it in slave mode with the stm32 driving everything
2019-04-15T23:10:05 < catphish> so i guess the stm32 will need to provide this system clock in addition to the I2S bit clock
2019-04-15T23:13:34 < zyp> ah, I think that's just what stm32 calls mclk
2019-04-15T23:13:44 < zyp> which is typically 256*bit clock or so
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2019-04-15T23:15:14 < catphish> zyp: i think that's "LRCK"
2019-04-15T23:15:37 < zyp> sorry, I meant 256 times the sampling freq
2019-04-15T23:16:14 < zyp> according to electrical characteristics, it can be 128, 192, 256, 384, 512 or 768 times f_s
2019-04-15T23:16:18 < zyp> ref. page 3
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2019-04-15T23:16:58 < catphish> it's infuriating how many names there are, there are 3 clocks though: 1) the bit clock, one cycle per data bit 2) the "word select" clock, one cycle per 24-bit datum 3) a system clock, much faster
2019-04-15T23:17:07 < zyp> also page 4: «fS = 96 kHz: SCKI1 = SCKI2 = 256 fS, fS = 192 kHz: SCKI1 = 512 fS at fS = 48 kHz and SCKI2 = 128 fS at fS = 192 kHz.»
2019-04-15T23:17:20 < zyp> yes
2019-04-15T23:18:01 < zyp> stm32 calls them CK, WS and MCK, respectively
2019-04-15T23:18:20 < zyp> quoting RM0090: «MCK: Master Clock (mapped separately) is used, when the I2S is configured in master mode (and when the MCKOE bit in the SPI_I2SPR register is set), to output this additional clock generated at a preconfigured frequency rate equal to 256 × FS, where FS is the audio sampling frequency.»
2019-04-15T23:18:26 < catphish> zyp: thanks, that's extremely useful if stm32 has all 3 concepts
2019-04-15T23:27:26 < catphish> zyp: yep, this makes perfect sense now, hopefully the stm32 can supply both BCK (48 x f_s) and MCK (256 x f_s)
2019-04-15T23:28:33 < zyp> that's CK and MCK respectively
2019-04-15T23:28:47 < zyp> and WS is what's also commonly called LRCLK
2019-04-15T23:28:53 <@englishman> if a single person was able to burn down notre dame, then it 100% was because of shitty 3rd world work environment
2019-04-15T23:28:57 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@bcde5391.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2019-04-15T23:30:21 < catphish> zyp: yep, happy with that, than you very much, i'll go read the stm32 SAI manual
2019-04-15T23:30:51 < Steffanx> whoa, https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4OFgUkX4AAObpu.jpg:large looks bad.
2019-04-15T23:32:03 < catphish> just working out how cheaply i can make an inline programmable dsp (specifically a guitar pedal) using only an stm32 and that PCM3060
2019-04-15T23:34:38 <@englishman> finally you spill the beans on what youve been doing
2019-04-15T23:36:48 < aandrew> now we all need to quickly flood tindie with knockoffs 
2019-04-15T23:37:16 <@englishman> "duplicated goods"
2019-04-15T23:40:05 < catphish> the goal: a cheap programmable guitar pedal, will see how far i get :)
2019-04-15T23:40:48 <@englishman> About 1,070,000 results (0.61 seconds) 
2019-04-15T23:40:48 <@englishman> Search Results
2019-04-15T23:40:48 <@englishman> Web results
2019-04-15T23:40:48 <@englishman> Pedal-Pi, simple programmable guitar pedal | Hackaday
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2019-04-15T23:44:17 < Steffanx> but it wont be by catphish.
2019-04-15T23:44:25 < Steffanx> *it isnt by catphish
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2019-04-15T23:47:15 < catphish> englishman: that's interesting, i'm not a big fan of running it on linux, but that's precisely what i'm looking to do
2019-04-15T23:49:07 < catphish> the hardware layout is *exactly* what i want, might copy it shamelessly
2019-04-15T23:49:15 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2019-04-15T23:54:39 < catphish> how on earth is this DAC working? https://www.electrosmash.com/images/tech/pedal-pi/pedal_pi_block_diagram.jpg
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2019-04-15T23:55:26 < catphish> oh, just a simple low pass filter at C6 i guess
--- Day changed Tue Apr 16 2019
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2019-04-16T00:02:24 < catphish> wow they used a 10-bit ADC, maybe i should cheap out and just use the 12 bit analog peripheral in the STM32
2019-04-16T00:03:46 < bitmask> so...
2019-04-16T00:04:17 < catphish> so...
2019-04-16T00:04:25 < bitmask> good sign or bad sign, they said I would hear back from them by tomorrow, and its 5PM and no message yet, if it was an easy NO I probably would have gotten the email pretty quick right?
2019-04-16T00:06:59 < mawk> fire has been put out jadew 
2019-04-16T00:07:05 < mawk> not entirely, but circumscribed at least
2019-04-16T00:07:27 < bitmask> bells gonna fall?
2019-04-16T00:07:44 < mawk> maybe
2019-04-16T00:07:59 < mawk> all around the church there are catholics chanting
2019-04-16T00:07:59 < mawk> lol
2019-04-16T00:08:08 < mawk> they look insane
2019-04-16T00:08:14 < bitmask> idiots
2019-04-16T00:08:26 < bitmask> (I'm technically catholic) but not really
2019-04-16T00:08:31 < mawk> me too
2019-04-16T00:08:43 < specing> mawk: they are insane
2019-04-16T00:08:47 < mawk> I've been forcefully baptized when I was a baby
2019-04-16T00:08:50 < catphish> i don't think you can technically be a religion
2019-04-16T00:08:57 < catphish> either you follow it / believe in it or you don't
2019-04-16T00:09:20 < catphish> it's not like nationality
2019-04-16T00:09:27 < bitmask> I was confirmed but even before that I stopped going to church, even for christmas, 
2019-04-16T00:09:44 < bitmask> and shortly after I became an atheist 
2019-04-16T00:09:50 < catphish> you can't be assigned it, you have to choose it every day
2019-04-16T00:10:02 < mawk> you have very effective safety nets around that catphish 
2019-04-16T00:10:11 < mawk> you don't just come and go if you have faith at some point
2019-04-16T00:10:27 < catphish> well that's entirely up to you i guess
2019-04-16T00:16:02 < karlp> catphish:pretty sure emeb doesx a bunch of effects stuff with just an stm32.
2019-04-16T00:16:56 < catphish> the only think i need to check is whether i need input / output buffers or not
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2019-04-16T00:17:57 < catphish> probably best to put at least an opamp to protect the input ADC
2019-04-16T00:21:09 < catphish> relevant project :) https://www.instructables.com/id/Nucleo-Guitar-Effects-Pedal/
2019-04-16T00:23:30 < Steffanx> Emebs website for more inspiration: http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/index.html
2019-04-16T00:25:42 < catphish> purple links tell me i've been there before :)
2019-04-16T00:26:03 < catphish> that guy is quite prolific :)
2019-04-16T00:27:46 < Steffanx> Hah
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2019-04-16T00:56:03 <@englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1t0yINNyLg
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2019-04-16T00:59:38 <@englishman> we can rebuild it, better than before. tastier https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1174128
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2019-04-16T01:23:22 < bitmask> man, I haven't been bored in a long time, it sucks, I'm too anxious to work on anything :/
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2019-04-16T01:30:31 < con3> bitmask: you alright? why so anxious?
2019-04-16T01:30:39 < Cracki> he might get a job or not
2019-04-16T01:30:53 < Cracki> and they love to let you simmer
2019-04-16T01:30:58 < bitmask> I'm fine, just had a second interview with a company, cant seem to relax while waiting a day for an answer
2019-04-16T01:31:02 < con3> oh dammit, keep on forgetting. Thought it was an anxiety issue
2019-04-16T01:31:14 < bitmask> well I have that too but ive learned to manage it mostly :)
2019-04-16T01:31:16 < Cracki> so what would those jobs have you do for the money?
2019-04-16T01:31:25 < con3> bitmask: totally understand, all the best! you got this
2019-04-16T01:31:30 < bitmask> thanks
2019-04-16T01:31:44 < Cracki> maybe a good distraction would be picking some more companies to get interested in
2019-04-16T01:32:17 < Cracki> the more you do this, the easier it gets. knowing what they would offer you builds confidence too
2019-04-16T01:32:18 < bitmask> yea, its tough finding companies, especially locally, that are hiring entry level though
2019-04-16T01:32:38 < bitmask> I think I asked for too much money
2019-04-16T01:32:39 < Cracki> they all hire entry level, they just can't admit it
2019-04-16T01:33:05 < Cracki> if it's too much, they might counteroffer but if you're a good applicant, they won't reject you just like that
2019-04-16T01:33:33 < bitmask> the owner said it was fair given my experience (I dont have professional experience but considering the personal projects ive worked on)
2019-04-16T01:33:52 < Cracki> they always want the best, for the least
2019-04-16T01:33:55 < bitmask> but that they were looking for entry level, so i'll see what that means I guess
2019-04-16T01:34:43 < Cracki> if they admit that they're looking for entry level, that just means they'd rather save the money and they think they can get away with an actual entry level employee for whatever they do
2019-04-16T01:35:15 < bitmask> I think I got nervous and made it obvious id pretty much accept anything :P
2019-04-16T01:35:35 < bitmask> but this waiting to hear back just sucks
2019-04-16T01:35:59 < Cracki> the first few offers you get it's ok to aim low. once you have a job, or serious offers at least, you can ask that much + whatever mood you're in
2019-04-16T01:36:21 < Cracki> go hug something, gf or dog or pillow :P
2019-04-16T01:36:26 < bitmask> yea, I'm after the experience mostly, its always been my main goal for this first job
2019-04-16T01:37:09 < Cracki> xp is good but that's not really the point. the point is you know what X would/is paying you, and it's only upwards from there
2019-04-16T01:37:27 < Cracki> it's like that gambling show with the goat. the smart move is to switch gates.
2019-04-16T01:37:29 < bitmask> the owners office is so nice, its not the nicest building, I mean its fine, but it has cubicles for the sales team, his office is big though with a couch and a huge flatscreen
2019-04-16T01:37:38 < Cracki> (different reason tho)
2019-04-16T01:38:02 < Cracki> you'll work with dilbert then?
2019-04-16T01:38:33 < bitmask> I only slightly get the reference :)
2019-04-16T01:38:45 < Cracki> if they are cheap on the tools (shit display, shit kb and mouse, ...) better go looking for better places
2019-04-16T01:38:55 < Cracki> dilbert ~ slaves in cubicles
2019-04-16T01:39:28 < Cracki> workers in cubicles ~ chickens in battery cages
2019-04-16T01:39:37 < Cracki> you gotta watch Office Space
2019-04-16T01:40:04 < bitmask> ive seen office space a few times
2019-04-16T01:40:25 < Cracki> you know what they do to workers? they defang and declaw you! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_cage
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2019-04-16T02:02:03 < bitmask> hmm, amazon vs m$, who's gonna win the pentagon contract
2019-04-16T02:04:42 < mawk> pentagon says it's open to several companies
2019-04-16T02:04:46 < mawk> so both will win
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2019-04-16T03:01:26 < karlp> cubes are better than open plan, as long as you have enough space in your cube.
2019-04-16T03:01:39 < karlp> worst ever is fucking sales in the same open plan as dev.
2019-04-16T03:02:34 < mawk> having to work in open space is a resign reason for me
2019-04-16T03:02:38 < mawk> I hate people
2019-04-16T03:02:44 < mawk> they make all kind of noises
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2019-04-16T03:10:51 < Cracki> I could live with the noise, if it were a murmuring in the background but then people always have to walk past you within full view and that's annoying
2019-04-16T03:11:48 < Cracki> the choice is either to relax/concentrate/flow, but also be startled all the time, or neither
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2019-04-16T03:20:46 < catphish> world's simplest DSP: https://nutty.tk/audio.pdf
2019-04-16T03:21:12 < catphish> did i miss anything critical?
2019-04-16T03:26:00 < Cracki> Amlifier
2019-04-16T03:26:03 < Cracki> ^
2019-04-16T03:26:48 < Cracki> I like how tidy this looks
2019-04-16T03:27:37 < catphish> i wasnt sure if i'd need to buffer the dac output, the opamp IC has a spare amp on it, so i guess there's no reason not to put it in
2019-04-16T03:27:53 < dongs> sup dongs
2019-04-16T03:28:03 < catphish> hello mr dongs
2019-04-16T03:28:37 < dongs> geez some dong is asking me for const heatshrink mod
2019-04-16T03:28:41 < dongs> comeon it took me like 5 mins
2019-04-16T03:28:52 < dongs> to make it use static buffers and feed bits from const uint
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2019-04-16T03:32:05 < catphish> now featuring output buffer: https://nutty.tk/audio.pdf
2019-04-16T03:33:20 < dongs> wahts this for
2019-04-16T03:33:25 < dongs> if youre gonna put down a 6 pin IC
2019-04-16T03:33:30 < dongs> you might as well put an audio amp there
2019-04-16T03:33:54 < catphish> dongs: guitar pedal
2019-04-16T03:33:57 < dongs> PAM8301
2019-04-16T03:34:27 < catphish> i'm hoping +/- 1.5V will suffice and all the amps can be unity
2019-04-16T03:35:15 < catphish> looks like that's designed to drive an inductive low impedance load
2019-04-16T03:36:04 < catphish> this is more designed to sit in a high impedance "line level" chain
2019-04-16T03:37:29 < dongs> yeah i noticed that after you said pedal and stopped caring
2019-04-16T03:37:42 < catphish> that's permitted
2019-04-16T03:39:17 < catphish> my friend's loop recorder pedal broke, and i learned they're expensive, so i started being interested :)
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2019-04-16T04:01:30 < Cracki> experience pls, got a 10k+50k voltage divider to monitor battery, is that a tolerable amount of resistance for an F1's adc? I'm not planning to sample terribly fast. the adc has to sample a handful of inputs at ~1 khz
2019-04-16T04:01:56 < Cracki> data sheet says the order of magnitude is ok
2019-04-16T04:02:02 < dongs> totally fine
2019-04-16T04:02:12 < dongs> add a cap to gnd maybe to smooth it up a bit
2019-04-16T04:02:39 < Cracki> good point
2019-04-16T04:03:21 < Cracki> thx
2019-04-16T04:18:29 < mawk> I will do stm32 dev in the D lang
2019-04-16T04:19:11 < dongs> i hope you kill yourself
2019-04-16T04:19:17 < mawk> :(
2019-04-16T04:19:18 < mawk> why
2019-04-16T04:19:25 < mawk> you're a C++ lover
2019-04-16T04:19:31 < dongs> no i hate C++
2019-04-16T04:19:36 < mawk> good
2019-04-16T04:19:43 < rajkosto> then why are you using laks a very nice C++ lib
2019-04-16T04:20:26 < rajkosto> gotta recode it in C with macros and lots of long function names that dont get inlined by the compiler and which have to be duplicated for each type
2019-04-16T04:20:50 < mawk> LTO won't fix that ?
2019-04-16T04:20:58 < mawk> else code everything in .h as static inline
2019-04-16T04:20:59 < mawk> problem solved
2019-04-16T04:21:01 < rajkosto> also cast everything to void*
2019-04-16T04:21:09 < rajkosto> dont use variants or anything
2019-04-16T04:21:27 < mawk> you've got unions it's fine
2019-04-16T04:21:49 < rajkosto> you have void* you dont need anything else just cast to the appropriate pointer type every place you use it and hope you dont forget one
2019-04-16T04:23:15 < mawk> unions are useful for non-pointer data
2019-04-16T04:23:24 < mawk> as anonymous union
2019-04-16T04:23:28 < mawk> to have super-pro OOP in C
2019-04-16T04:24:13 < mawk> typedef struct { int type; union { struct { int var1; int var2; }; struct { int var3; int var4; }; }; } dongs_t;
2019-04-16T04:25:32 < jadew> D doesn't have enough traction yet
2019-04-16T04:25:52 < rajkosto> rust
2019-04-16T04:25:57 < mawk> it will never happen if I don't make libs for it
2019-04-16T04:25:59 < mawk> so I've got to try
2019-04-16T04:26:00 < jadew> rust is worse
2019-04-16T04:26:05 < mawk> also the dev community is nice
2019-04-16T04:26:09 < rajkosto> that guy is already doin stm32 in rust
2019-04-16T04:26:12 < rajkosto> he livin in 2069
2019-04-16T04:26:46 < jadew> if any of these languages has a future, is D
2019-04-16T04:27:09 < mawk> it has really cool features
2019-04-16T04:27:15 < mawk> no need for a community when you have such things
2019-04-16T04:27:15 < jadew> might replace C++ at some point, but it could also just die
2019-04-16T04:27:23 < jadew> so I'm not ready to devote any resources to it yet
2019-04-16T04:27:31 < jadew> (did that mistake many times before)
2019-04-16T04:27:34 < mawk> some companies took the leap without the need for a community
2019-04-16T04:27:41 < mawk> weka.io or something
2019-04-16T04:27:45 < bitmask> what about R and S, wtf is this world coming to
2019-04-16T04:27:45 < jadew> some companies are stupid
2019-04-16T04:27:46 < rajkosto> i member when golang was supposed to be the c++ replacement
2019-04-16T04:27:47 < mawk> also big names like netflix or stuff
2019-04-16T04:27:51 < mawk> R is for maths
2019-04-16T04:27:57 < bitmask> yea I know
2019-04-16T04:27:58 < mawk> go is a language for dummies
2019-04-16T04:28:01 < rajkosto> (so i tried golang, and concluded that golang is shit and completely misguided by design)
2019-04-16T04:28:09 < mawk> its creator said it explicitely
2019-04-16T04:28:15 < dongs> lol all thse useless newfag languages
2019-04-16T04:28:18 < dongs> can fuck offfffff
2019-04-16T04:28:20 < mawk> he believes devs to be stupid so he must offer a simple language that will force them to write good code
2019-04-16T04:28:20 < bitmask> and is swift, is that actually better than obj-c?
2019-04-16T04:28:20 < Cracki> mawk, so... there's a compiler with D frontend and cortex m backend?
2019-04-16T04:28:21 < dongs> C for life
2019-04-16T04:28:27 < mawk> yes Cracki 
2019-04-16T04:28:33 < rajkosto> dongs, missing the ++ there
2019-04-16T04:28:35 < mawk> you can use llvm as backend
2019-04-16T04:28:36 < Cracki> fascinating
2019-04-16T04:28:38 < mawk> you've got all the targets in the world
2019-04-16T04:28:47 < mawk> also you have a gcc backend, supports arm-none-eabi too I believe
2019-04-16T04:28:49 < mawk> but llvm has the most
2019-04-16T04:28:52 < jadew> dongs, D is better C++
2019-04-16T04:28:57 < Cracki> I've been sneaking around D a decade ago. doesn't look like it took off.
2019-04-16T04:28:57 < jadew> you'd probably like it more
2019-04-16T04:29:09 < rajkosto> D is just alexei alenxandrescus pet project
2019-04-16T04:29:16 < rajkosto> the fleshed out features in it sometimes come to c++
2019-04-16T04:29:24 < Cracki> if rust gets its community problem in check, and mozilla stops being filthy commies, they might have a chance
2019-04-16T04:29:32 < rajkosto> its been a thing for multiple decades now
2019-04-16T04:29:39 < Cracki> aye
2019-04-16T04:30:12 < mawk> yeah bitmask according to the devs
2019-04-16T04:30:16 < jadew> a good indicator of language long-term success is if a company like Microsoft gets behind it
2019-04-16T04:30:22 < mawk> who ranked obj-c high in the top 10 worst languages of all
2019-04-16T04:30:34 < bitmask> even Steffanx likes it better, I thought it was supposed to be trash so I never looked at it
2019-04-16T04:30:34 < jadew> actually... let me rephrase that: if Microsoft gets behind it
2019-04-16T04:30:44 < Cracki> I would. objc, and everything apple, seems to do things differently just for the hell of it
2019-04-16T04:31:06 < bitmask> yea they do just do things differently for the hell of it but it really isnt that bad
2019-04-16T04:31:22 < bitmask> I may have to take up c# for this job
2019-04-16T04:31:36 < jadew> bitmask, not a bad idea
2019-04-16T04:31:37 < bitmask> not the end of the world
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2019-04-16T04:31:38 < mawk> C# looks extremely verbose
2019-04-16T04:31:41 < Cracki> last time I was asked to deal with that, they gave me a mac. too much culture shock. I was ready to break everything.
2019-04-16T04:31:55 < jadew> bitmask, it opens up a lot of other jobs for you
2019-04-16T04:32:20 < Cracki> I'm still dithering between c# and java... mostly would need it for GUI stuff
2019-04-16T04:32:29 < mawk> C# for gui looks nice Cracki 
2019-04-16T04:32:33 < dongs> obviously not java
2019-04-16T04:32:39 < mawk> nicely integrated with windows
2019-04-16T04:32:40 < dongs> who the fuck would use that in 2019
2019-04-16T04:32:47 < mawk> people who make cross-platform GUIs
2019-04-16T04:32:52 < rajkosto> > java
2019-04-16T04:32:54 < rajkosto> > cross-platform
2019-04-16T04:32:55 < jadew> yeah... I have yet to hear about high paying jobs that require java
2019-04-16T04:32:58 < rajkosto> ishygddt
2019-04-16T04:33:02 < Cracki> banking
2019-04-16T04:33:09 < rajkosto> maxeller fpga
2019-04-16T04:33:13 < mawk> yeah it's the initial spirit rajkosto 
2019-04-16T04:33:15 < Cracki> they require java because you're just a cog... but an expensive one
2019-04-16T04:33:26 < jadew> rajkosto, businesses don't care about cross-platform
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2019-04-16T04:33:32 < jadew> they care about speed of development
2019-04-16T04:33:42 < jadew> which is what C# delivered and why it's so popular these days
2019-04-16T04:33:55 < bitmask> + xamarin
2019-04-16T04:34:01 < rajkosto> which is why BORLAND DELPHI was such a thing before
2019-04-16T04:34:07 < rajkosto> pre-C#
2019-04-16T04:34:11 < jadew> it didn't deliver the best anything, but it had great optimization and a lot of built in functionality that just worked
2019-04-16T04:34:20 < rajkosto> it was java done right
2019-04-16T04:34:25 < Cracki> I can't estimate whether I'd be happier with c# or java... I've looked into c#, haven't found the right book or whatever yet. the resources I looked at just HAD to do everything the hard way first
2019-04-16T04:34:45 < rajkosto> Cracki, just ignore WPF/XAML
2019-04-16T04:34:46 < jadew> I can't stand java
2019-04-16T04:34:48 < rajkosto> WinForms for lyfe
2019-04-16T04:35:16 < rajkosto> also .net has linq/fluent mapping whatever you wanna call it
2019-04-16T04:35:18 < dongs> yeah haha xaml is fucking aids
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2019-04-16T04:35:29 < Cracki> rajkosto, that's what I was thinking... I mostly need a blank canvas to draw custom shit onto, and I'm happy to get plain mouse+kb events with window coordinates
2019-04-16T04:35:36 < dongs> actually anything C# past .net 1.1 or so is fucking aids
2019-04-16T04:35:42 < dongs> but you don't have to use the new shit if you dont want to
2019-04-16T04:35:49 < dongs> they added retarded shit like auto vars etc
2019-04-16T04:35:51 < rajkosto> WCF is mega-aids
2019-04-16T04:35:58 < Cracki> these retards started introducing xaml by making you write your own xaml! i mean why not start with the fucking designer first?
2019-04-16T04:36:11 < rajkosto> because the designer for xaml is about as useful as Dreamweaver is for HTML
2019-04-16T04:36:13 < jadew> dongs, lol, auto vars were added more than a decade ago
2019-04-16T04:36:27 < rajkosto> tons of xaml has you TYPING CODE INTO STRING QUOTES INSIDE THE TEXT EDITOR OF THE DESIGNER
2019-04-16T04:36:27 < dongs> judew, i dont give a fuck. they have no purpose in C#
2019-04-16T04:36:28 < bitmask> every language seems to have auto vars now
2019-04-16T04:36:35 < Cracki> kek
2019-04-16T04:36:40 < dongs> thankfully i am not forced to use them
2019-04-16T04:37:05 < rajkosto> var is needed in managed languages so you dont repeat yourself doing SomeStructOrClass varName = new SomeStructOrClass()
2019-04-16T04:37:27 < rajkosto> C++ lets you have the ()/{} immediately after without an equals
2019-04-16T04:37:50 < mawk> or use uato
2019-04-16T04:37:55 < bitmask> c++ has auto var too
2019-04-16T04:37:55 < Cracki> stack allocation is for grownups :P
2019-04-16T04:38:04 < Cracki> c has auto too. it means int.
2019-04-16T04:38:12 < Cracki> I think newest c++ has sensible auto
2019-04-16T04:38:13 < mawk> C has __auto_type
2019-04-16T04:38:13 < rajkosto> bitmask, im saying when it didnt you didnt have to repeat yourself as much as in managed langs
2019-04-16T04:38:18 < mawk> if you want to be fancy
2019-04-16T04:38:29 < mawk> #ifndef __cplusplus__ #define auto __auto_type #endif
2019-04-16T04:38:44 < Cracki> it's not about "managed", but about their type system and verbosity
2019-04-16T04:38:51 < mawk> int isn't large enough for long long int and double float
2019-04-16T04:38:54 < Cracki> python is even managed-er and it has no such duplication
2019-04-16T04:38:59 < rajkosto> Cracki, its because of "reference typed"
2019-04-16T04:39:09 < rajkosto> which is such a dumb name and a misnormer it hurts
2019-04-16T04:39:09 < Cracki> it's because static typing
2019-04-16T04:39:20 < bitmask> I already forget but doesnt c# not have unsigned types?
2019-04-16T04:39:21 < rajkosto> (theyre fuckkin pointers)
2019-04-16T04:39:25 < rajkosto> bitmask, thats java
2019-04-16T04:39:33 < bitmask> oh really?
2019-04-16T04:39:36 < rajkosto> (they added unsigned types as special types way later on)
2019-04-16T04:39:42 < rajkosto> yes java is all that is wrong with programming
2019-04-16T04:39:42 < Cracki> that was java, and they fixed that by adding non-primitive types for that i think
2019-04-16T04:39:49 < rajkosto> java for managed, php for "dynamic"
2019-04-16T04:39:51 < mawk> boxed it's called no ?
2019-04-16T04:39:54 < Cracki> "boxing" yeh
2019-04-16T04:39:55 < bitmask> ok good
2019-04-16T04:40:03 < rajkosto> boxed is completely different from unsigned types
2019-04-16T04:40:17 < rajkosto> (another artefact of making "references" instead of pointers)
2019-04-16T04:40:19 < Cracki> the one is a type system thing, the second is a particular bunch of classes
2019-04-16T04:41:05 < Cracki> https://blogs.oracle.com/darcy/unsigned-integer-arithmetic-api-now-in-jdk-8
2019-04-16T04:41:31 < Cracki> they should have made everything an object and handled the optimization behind the scenes
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2019-04-16T04:41:41 < Cracki> then it doesn't matter if it's "int" or "Integer"
2019-04-16T04:41:52 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-16T04:41:53 < rajkosto> you mean, they shouldnt have create the whole "variables are references" false misnormer
2019-04-16T04:42:00 < Cracki> uh wat
2019-04-16T04:42:01 < rajkosto> that all managed languages copied afterwards
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2019-04-16T04:42:13 < rajkosto> it creates a separate from a variable being an inbuilt type vs a custom type
2019-04-16T04:42:18 < rajkosto> separation*
2019-04-16T04:42:24 < rajkosto> while theres no syntactic difference between using them
2019-04-16T04:42:34 < Cracki> I don't follow
2019-04-16T04:42:37 < rajkosto> no such thing in C++
2019-04-16T04:42:58 < rajkosto> pointers/references are explicit and you know an indirection is taking place
2019-04-16T04:43:17 < Cracki> there's no real difference
2019-04-16T04:43:28 < dongs> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/15/virgin-japanese-sex-physical-love
2019-04-16T04:43:30 < Cracki> unless you are allowed to rebind a variable to point to a different object
2019-04-16T04:43:40 < rajkosto> absolute difference, value types change their actual contents with equals sign, reference types just point to another thing.
2019-04-16T04:43:46 < Cracki> oh btw Notre Dame is ashes now
2019-04-16T04:43:50 < dongs> old news
2019-04-16T04:44:13 < Cracki> you mean assignment?
2019-04-16T04:44:13 < rajkosto> dongs, its because girls have cooties and are gross
2019-04-16T04:44:41 < rajkosto> yep, it creates such a confusion about shared state for newbie programmers
2019-04-16T04:45:02 < rajkosto> why does an int not do the same thing as CustomType
2019-04-16T04:45:13 < Cracki> I don't see why. they are simple concepts. the problem is when they're explained badly
2019-04-16T04:45:33 < Cracki> because in java they're different things and that's just a design decision
2019-04-16T04:45:46 < rajkosto> ok how do i make my own int tho ?
2019-04-16T04:45:47 < Cracki> in other langs, they're the same kind of thing, so no difference really
2019-04-16T04:45:52 < rajkosto> C# added "struct" to do that, java sucks.
2019-04-16T04:45:56 < Cracki> can you overload assignment operator?
2019-04-16T04:46:10 < mawk> in C++ ?
2019-04-16T04:46:15 < Cracki> that's for sure, but java?
2019-04-16T04:46:17 < rajkosto> in c++ you can overload your mom
2019-04-16T04:46:23 < rajkosto> java has no operator overloading ? why are you asking
2019-04-16T04:46:29 < mawk> you can't overload & in C++
2019-04-16T04:46:32 < Cracki> oh it doesn't? that explains a few things
2019-04-16T04:46:39 < rajkosto> but C# DOES.
2019-04-16T04:47:02 < rajkosto> (its stil a lot more limited than C++'s)
2019-04-16T04:47:20 < rajkosto> anyway it aint #language-wars here better stop ranting
2019-04-16T04:48:25 < Cracki> what else can we rant about?
2019-04-16T04:48:26 < bitmask> man I really want this job
2019-04-16T04:48:34 < Cracki> let's rant about the job market? :P
2019-04-16T04:48:45 < Cracki> I heard you iron your stuff now
2019-04-16T04:48:55 < bitmask> just for these interviews
2019-04-16T04:49:19 < Cracki> yeh if they want it ironed, they can do it themselves
2019-04-16T04:49:55 < bitmask> they have a casual dress code, I just didn't want to under dress
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2019-04-16T04:57:22 < jadew> bitmask, you had the second interview yet?
2019-04-16T04:57:33 < bitmask> yea today
2019-04-16T04:57:36 < jadew> and?
2019-04-16T04:57:55 < bitmask> not sure how it went, hard to read the owner.  I'll hear by tomorrow
2019-04-16T04:57:58 < bitmask> this waiting sucks
2019-04-16T04:59:10 < jadew> what did he ask you?
2019-04-16T05:00:36 < bitmask> it seemed rushed which is what worried me.  we went over my experience (all the projects I put on my resume) 
2019-04-16T05:01:20 < bitmask> asked how much I expected and he said fair but that it was an entry level position, so even though I had experience coding (although not professionally) they may not want to pay that much
2019-04-16T05:01:52 < bitmask> could been a negotiating tactic or maybe not, who knows
2019-04-16T05:02:35 < jadew> was he a programmer?
2019-04-16T05:03:04 < bitmask> I think so but I doubt he does so anymore
2019-04-16T05:04:12 < jadew> you didn't ask about him?
2019-04-16T05:04:32 < Cracki> I'm sure you asked some more about the company?
2019-04-16T05:04:33 < jadew> I'd be all up in their buts during an interview
2019-04-16T05:04:41 < jadew> *butts
2019-04-16T05:04:55 < Cracki> like how?
2019-04-16T05:05:10 < jadew> like... conduct an interview of my own
2019-04-16T05:05:10 < bitmask> I was told a bit, asking questions isnt one of my strengths heh. he started the company with another guy and they parted ways, they recently moved into a bigger office space and may need to move again soon
2019-04-16T05:05:12 < Cracki> I'd definitely wanna know if a company has been politicized or not
2019-04-16T05:05:15 < jadew> you have to know what you're getting into
2019-04-16T05:05:40 < Cracki> move again because even bigger?
2019-04-16T05:05:45 < bitmask> yea
2019-04-16T05:05:54 < bitmask> so they seem like they are growing strongly
2019-04-16T05:06:04 < Cracki> growth is often good but if they grow too fast, they can call on their face
2019-04-16T05:06:10 < bitmask> they have been around 15 years so not a startup but they are still growing
2019-04-16T05:06:27 < mawk> requiring constant growing year by year amazes me
2019-04-16T05:06:32 < mawk> how can this model be stable
2019-04-16T05:06:57 < mawk> growing indefinitely more than the inflation can't happen
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2019-04-16T05:08:02 < dongs> what the fuck is wrong with my wget.exe
2019-04-16T05:08:11 < mawk> it's the .exe
2019-04-16T05:08:11 < dongs> it just exits after every file even if I pass it a list of shit
2019-04-16T05:08:23 < dongs> i have to up-enter and add -c
2019-04-16T05:08:27 < dongs> and then it goes to next file...
2019-04-16T05:08:28 < dongs> the fuck
2019-04-16T05:08:33 < dongs> shitty garbage opensores nigger shit
2019-04-16T05:08:51 < jadew`> dongs, make a bat
2019-04-16T05:08:54 < dongs> ...
2019-04-16T05:09:00 < dongs> it has a fucking -i to take a list of urls
2019-04-16T05:09:05 < dongs> im not gonna make a script to do same shit
2019-04-16T05:09:19 < jadew`> are the URLs enclosed in " "?
2019-04-16T05:09:21 < Cracki> xargs -P maybe
2019-04-16T05:09:22 < mawk> the real wget doesn't do that dongs 
2019-04-16T05:09:31 < mawk> it's obviously your windows thing that broke it
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2019-04-16T05:09:33 < dongs> jadew`: the urls work
2019-04-16T05:09:38 < dongs> it fails to -m as well
2019-04-16T05:09:44 < dongs> i do wget -m -np -nd http://nigger
2019-04-16T05:09:49 < dongs> and it stops after getting a few files
2019-04-16T05:10:01 < jadew`> dongs, if you have & in URLs, that's where the command stops
2019-04-16T05:10:06 < Cracki> ^
2019-04-16T05:10:12 < Cracki> cmd.exe has problems with &
2019-04-16T05:10:27 < dongs> no, they're all same pattern
2019-04-16T05:10:29 < dongs> no ^s
2019-04-16T05:12:51 < jadew`> regarding company growth - yeah, they can easily fall on their face
2019-04-16T05:13:41 < jadew`> what usually happens is that they decide to extend, so they figure they need new tallent
2019-04-16T05:14:07 < jadew`> they bring in new talent, they start focusing on new stuff, give up on what used to work
2019-04-16T05:14:14 < jadew`> and then they can't sustain themselves
2019-04-16T05:15:24 < jadew`> this can probably work, but not when the company is ran by stupid
2019-04-16T05:16:10 < Cracki> the core value of a company is its teams. if they fuck up team dynamics _in any way_, shit blows up
2019-04-16T05:16:18 < dongs> well i updated my wget.exe to something newer and it seems to work better at least
2019-04-16T05:16:23 < jadew`> Cracki, yep
2019-04-16T05:16:30 < Cracki> either by forcing too many newbies into it, or by making everyone do silly shit like "scrum"
2019-04-16T05:16:34 < dongs> still has the retared scrolling filename bug
2019-04-16T05:16:38 < dongs> holy shit opensores plz fix this stuff
2019-04-16T05:16:49 < Cracki> "patches welcome"
2019-04-16T05:16:52 < dongs> vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv  14%[======>
2019-04-16T05:16:56 < dongs> if file is too long
2019-04-16T05:16:57 < Cracki> rage inducing, innit
2019-04-16T05:17:00 < dongs> it will just scroll last letter 
2019-04-16T05:17:07 < dongs> while freezing the rest of updates
2019-04-16T05:17:10 < dongs> fuckin retarded
2019-04-16T05:17:10 < jadew`> Cracki, it's what screwed over the last company I worked at
2019-04-16T05:17:41 < jadew`> I left because of scrum and other similar shit that was introduced by new CTO (which wasn't me, as it should have been)
2019-04-16T05:17:46 < Cracki> I should seriously consider going into consulting... looking at a shit situation and saying "it's shit" seems to be what consulting is
2019-04-16T05:17:56 < jadew`> a year later, the company had to lay off 80% of the staff
2019-04-16T05:18:00 < Cracki> tell about cto pls
2019-04-16T05:18:11 < Cracki> kek
2019-04-16T05:18:37 < bitmask> jadew` you said tax rate of 50%? it would be 23.4% not sure what else to take into account like social security and stuff but income tax for federal and state would be that
2019-04-16T05:18:43 < Cracki> shit like that drives the backbone to other companies, and you're left with spineless ballast
2019-04-16T05:18:53 < jadew`> bitmask, 23.4% is amazing
2019-04-16T05:19:01 < Cracki> marginal tax rate maybe
2019-04-16T05:19:07 < jadew`> bitmask, does that include what your employer pays too?
2019-04-16T05:20:09 < jadew`> Cracki, what basically happened, is that the owner decided to step back
2019-04-16T05:20:09 < bitmask> not sure what the employer pays, thats just if I didnt pay taxes throughout the year what I would owe. so like I said, other factors may be at play but I dont think its much more than that
2019-04-16T05:20:36 < jadew`> so he decided to add a little structure and make things work by themselves
2019-04-16T05:21:25 < jadew`> he promoted someone to CEO and they both found a CTO, to basically replace me in the technical decision making and hire a new (much bigger) team to develop shit
2019-04-16T05:21:32 < jadew`> they did that
2019-04-16T05:21:57 < jadew`> the new CTO hired a bunch of javascript developers, even tho our codebase was C++ and PHP
2019-04-16T05:22:12 < jadew`> so they were incompatible with what we already had
2019-04-16T05:22:14 < Cracki> lo
2019-04-16T05:22:15 < Cracki> l
2019-04-16T05:22:34 < dongs> lol i chat with a javascript "developer" and he's such an arrogant cock
2019-04-16T05:22:39 < dongs> he thinks hes the fucking shit
2019-04-16T05:22:41 < Cracki> instead of promoting known quantities, they seriously bought their management?
2019-04-16T05:22:45 < dongs> for knowing some garbage like react or someshit
2019-04-16T05:22:48 < mawk> he makes money
2019-04-16T05:22:53 < mawk> with no brain required
2019-04-16T05:22:58 < dongs> lul, exactly
2019-04-16T05:23:03 < bitmask> this ruby on rails developer called me a nerd for writing c/c++ code, he looked exactly like you think he did
2019-04-16T05:23:06 < jadew`> they then bought a JS based system (node based) and everyone worked on modifying that
2019-04-16T05:23:22 < dongs> node.jews
2019-04-16T05:23:26 < Cracki> kek
2019-04-16T05:23:28 < jadew`> I refused to work with them and I quit
2019-04-16T05:23:43 < jadew`> I even told them that I saw what kind of code those guys are producing and it's shit
2019-04-16T05:23:57 < Cracki> wasted breath eh?
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2019-04-16T05:24:02 < jadew`> also, the first line of business was to spend money on something like 10 to 15 servers
2019-04-16T05:24:07 < Cracki> haha
2019-04-16T05:24:24 < jadew`> when we were doing just fine with 3
2019-04-16T05:24:29 < Cracki> that's not how you pay technical debt
2019-04-16T05:25:37 < jadew`> I found out everything went to shit just the other day, when I contacted a guy I hired there
2019-04-16T05:25:55 < rajkosto> you need 15 servers if you wanna be web scale
2019-04-16T05:25:56 < Cracki> heheh he is still there
2019-04-16T05:26:03 < Cracki> give him a kick in the butt
2019-04-16T05:26:07 < jadew`> no, he is not
2019-04-16T05:26:11 < Cracki> good
2019-04-16T05:26:13 < jadew`> there are no developers left
2019-04-16T05:26:16 < Cracki> lol
2019-04-16T05:26:32 < Cracki> wat now, scamming is their biz model?
2019-04-16T05:26:53 < jadew`> they're working on already available software
2019-04-16T05:27:14 < Cracki> i.e. selling, not developing
2019-04-16T05:27:19 < jadew`> yep
2019-04-16T05:27:29 < jadew`> talked to another guy who still works there afterwards and he confirmed
2019-04-16T05:27:46 < jadew`> they didn't have money anymore to pay everyone
2019-04-16T05:28:24 < jadew`> and I remembered how I complained about the wastefulness of their new technological development plan
2019-04-16T05:29:02 < Cracki> so that cto was an outsider
2019-04-16T05:29:07 < jadew`> yep
2019-04-16T05:29:18 < Cracki> how the hell did they think that was a smart idea
2019-04-16T05:29:24 < jadew`> no clue
2019-04-16T05:29:50 < jadew`> they could have just paid me 2x what I was making then and I would have risen to the occasion
2019-04-16T05:30:28 < jadew`> everything technical was being ran through me anyway
2019-04-16T05:31:39 < Cracki> must be fun to see it burning after they ignored all the advice
2019-04-16T05:32:52 < jadew`> wouldn't say fun, but at least I know I wasn't wrong
2019-04-16T05:33:43 < Cracki> first time I saw something burn was a year after graduation. we have military or civilian service, took civilian service in a hospital. one of the "head" nurses was a total sociopath to everyone, but somehow everyone kept quiet about it... a few weeks after I was gone, I heard they'd fired her for all kinds of shit not even the gossip caught
2019-04-16T05:34:34 < Cracki> tbh if that hadn't been time limited anyway, I might not have quit on my own
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2019-04-16T05:35:31 < jadew`> the problem in the case of my previews employer was that they basically replaced their business
2019-04-16T05:35:34 < Cracki> people are remarkably tolerant of bad, even damaging situations
2019-04-16T05:35:53 < Cracki> yeh sounds like it. complete replacement of core tech
2019-04-16T05:36:20 < jadew`> yep
2019-04-16T05:36:35 < jadew`> I suppose this sort of thing can be done, but gradually
2019-04-16T05:37:26 < Cracki> there's a "consulting" shop around here. they specialize in taking ancient code bases, analyzing them, and replacing them part by part with java. kinda the same thing, but systematic, and based on more solid tech, not this trendy node.js crap
2019-04-16T05:37:53 < Cracki> there's lots of money in doing that to cobol etc
2019-04-16T05:40:38 < jadew`> I'm all for consulting, but I haven't figured out yet where to find customers that are willing to pay proper rates
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2019-04-16T05:41:41 < jadew`> seems like the jobs available on the freelancing sites pay less than what you'd get if you were hired
2019-04-16T05:44:34 < Cracki> of course, you compete with the third world
2019-04-16T05:44:39 < Cracki> on these sites anyway
2019-04-16T05:45:10 < jadew`> yeah... so it's not clear to me how to properly get into consulting
2019-04-16T05:46:03 < mawk> if I setup timer in trigger slave mode with TI1_ED trigger source and channel1 triggered by TRC; it means on the first rising edge of the signal the timer will start then tick at each period until I stop it, and everytime capture the input, right ?
2019-04-16T05:46:57 < Cracki> I think you need to get noticed by (apply to) a consulting company and that's that
2019-04-16T06:04:30 < mawk> if I use the digital filter stuff for a button that will debounce it
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2019-04-16T06:09:00 <@englishman> whoa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqPrVn71IqY
2019-04-16T06:09:25 < rajkosto> what is the anomaly
2019-04-16T06:10:09 <@englishman> the explosion ofc
2019-04-16T06:10:31 < jadew`> it exploded?
2019-04-16T06:10:37 < jadew`> looked more like it was shining
2019-04-16T06:10:42 < rajkosto> oh it wasnt just doing air jets or something ?
2019-04-16T06:10:56 < rajkosto> manouvering
2019-04-16T06:11:27 <@englishman> no it blew the fuck up
2019-04-16T06:11:36 < jadew`> why?
2019-04-16T06:11:53 <@englishman> what do i look like a satellite expert
2019-04-16T06:12:07 < rajkosto> so just this http://i.imgur.com/6NfmQ.jpg
2019-04-16T06:12:27 < mawk> it looks like an explosion
2019-04-16T06:12:36 < mawk> with the brightness
2019-04-16T06:12:51 < rajkosto> that tracker should get a better camera
2019-04-16T06:12:59 < mawk> and also the jets in every direction
2019-04-16T06:13:54 <@englishman> yeah they should have used a Sony ExMor R all the bloggers love it why are they so out of date?!?
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2019-04-16T06:14:33 < mawk> boeing made that satellite
2019-04-16T06:14:36 < mawk> them again
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2019-04-16T06:14:57 < mawk> another flying thing by them that failed
2019-04-16T06:15:00 <@englishman> its only the 2nd of that type that blew up
2019-04-16T06:15:03 <@englishman> plenty left
2019-04-16T06:15:05 < mawk> lol
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2019-04-16T07:01:46 < dongs> fuck me the docking trash in keil is SO FUCKING BAD
2019-04-16T07:02:39 < jadew`> there are few good implementations
2019-04-16T07:02:53 < jadew`> I never understood why
2019-04-16T07:03:06 < rajkosto> vs2003 nailed it
2019-04-16T07:03:20 < dongs> god damn im STILL FUCKING FIGHTING WITH THIS RETARDED CHINK I2C
2019-04-16T07:03:22 < dongs> WHAT TEH FUCK
2019-04-16T07:03:28 < dongs> how hard is it to explain "write 2 bytes"
2019-04-16T07:03:30 < dongs> fuck me
2019-04-16T07:03:38 < rajkosto> r u polling or interruptin
2019-04-16T07:03:44 < dongs> i2c works
2019-04-16T07:03:47 < dongs> its the fucking device
2019-04-16T07:03:49 < dongs> is retarded
2019-04-16T07:03:55 < rajkosto> is it doing the "virtual register" shit
2019-04-16T07:04:00 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/1MF77DD.png
2019-04-16T07:04:03 < dongs> this is the fucking "flowchart"
2019-04-16T07:04:15 < dongs> except i jsut found out, last byte isnt actually meant to be written
2019-04-16T07:04:20 < rajkosto> so yes it is doing the virtual register shit
2019-04-16T07:04:21 < dongs> but it still doesnt work 
2019-04-16T07:04:25 < rajkosto> you need to not ack the last byte
2019-04-16T07:04:31 < dongs> wut, fuck off
2019-04-16T07:04:34 < dongs> that has nothing to do with anything
2019-04-16T07:04:43 < dongs> i2c protocol itself works
2019-04-16T07:07:19 < ds2> write 2 bytes? that is annoyingly complicated
2019-04-16T07:07:41 < ds2> some devices mean literally write 2 bytes...others mean write 16bits continously
2019-04-16T07:08:12 < ds2> and getting that wrong means the thing won't respond or it responds with something unexpected
2019-04-16T07:09:40 < jadew`> dongs, I think I posted this before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzhIjn9qyKs
2019-04-16T07:09:54 < jadew`> tell the keil guys I'm willing to sell them a license
2019-04-16T07:10:02 < rajkosto> its why i mentioned not acking the last byte, if you do, the i2c device doesnt let go of the bus and tries to write another one back to you while youre trying to do the next thing
2019-04-16T07:10:07 < jadew`> 15k/yr
2019-04-16T07:10:13 < rajkosto> oooh in WTL too, no external dependencies
2019-04-16T07:10:20 < jadew`> yep
2019-04-16T07:11:01 < jadew`> I'm not sure if I got to implementing the animation shit, might have been disabled in this one
2019-04-16T07:11:12 < jadew`> I'm not a fan of sliding windows
2019-04-16T07:11:48 < rajkosto> can you easily unstucc stuff if you accidentally dock it
2019-04-16T07:12:04 < jadew`> you can grab it
2019-04-16T07:12:19 < jadew`> or what do you mean?
2019-04-16T07:12:35 < jadew`> you can undock it
2019-04-16T07:12:51 < rajkosto> i guess it only starts happening once you have tabs of tabs like vs does
2019-04-16T07:13:03 < rajkosto> horizontal and vertical in one dock
2019-04-16T07:13:22 < rajkosto> actually it happens in ALtium the most
2019-04-16T07:13:34 < jadew`> not sure I understand
2019-04-16T07:13:53 < rajkosto> basically if you can make a thing a tab OR a split-dock
2019-04-16T07:13:59 < rajkosto> sometimes it can be stuck in one state
2019-04-16T07:15:23 < jadew`> got instructions to replicate the behaviour?
2019-04-16T07:15:31 < jadew`> I'd like to test it on my lib
2019-04-16T07:16:31 < rajkosto> if you have multiple tabs sometimes it drags the entire set of tabs instead of just the one you wanted too i dunno what the heuristics are for that
2019-04-16T07:16:58 < jadew`> ah, no, you can just grab one
2019-04-16T07:17:12 < jadew`> oh, you mean when it's pinned?
2019-04-16T07:17:19 < dongs> ok i got whoami to reply properly
2019-04-16T07:17:27 < dongs> fucking retarded shit wow
2019-04-16T07:17:48 < rajkosto> ok how do i get Output back into the tabs where "Find symbol results" was https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-04-16_06-17-37_SY45DZLut.png
2019-04-16T07:17:49 < jadew`> rajkosto, in my implementation, if you drag a tab, you get a tab
2019-04-16T07:17:59 < rajkosto> i got it from there now i cant put it back there
2019-04-16T07:18:04 < rajkosto> because its autohide i think
2019-04-16T07:18:05 < jadew`> if you drag from the caption bar, you get them all
2019-04-16T07:18:24 < rajkosto> yes i have to un-auto-hide then i can put it back there
2019-04-16T07:18:32 < jadew`> because when one of the tabs is visible (in a pinned tab scenario) all of the other tabs are also visible at the bottom, so it makes complete sense
2019-04-16T07:19:05 < jadew`> ah, I see what you mean
2019-04-16T07:19:11 < jadew`> yeah, that's because it auto hides
2019-04-16T07:19:23 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-04-16_06-19-16_6WUyfT8XI.png this doesnt react to dragged tabs 
2019-04-16T07:19:37 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-04-16_06-19-36_9g8HHIhLZ.png this does
2019-04-16T07:20:06 < jadew`> that also makes sense :P
2019-04-16T07:20:21 < jadew`> but I can see why you would want it to react
2019-04-16T07:20:40 < jadew`> in the first case they're buttons to show a particular tab
2019-04-16T07:20:45 < jadew`> in the second case they're actual tabs
2019-04-16T07:20:49 < rajkosto> its easy to completely wreck a layout you have with many stacked tabs like this
2019-04-16T07:21:07 < rajkosto> happened to me in Altium many times
2019-04-16T07:21:15 < rajkosto> aaaah how do i get it back
2019-04-16T07:21:46 < rajkosto> doing raw winapi i just hate doing all the sizing manually
2019-04-16T07:22:13 < rajkosto> and layout
2019-04-16T07:23:53 < jadew`> kinda shitty that native UI stuff is not getting any more love from MS
2019-04-16T07:24:38 < rajkosto> especially when it makes exes so tiny vs things like Qt
2019-04-16T07:25:10 < jadew`> yeah
2019-04-16T07:25:16 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/N8SqfAB.mp4
2019-04-16T07:25:49 < jadew`> lol
2019-04-16T07:25:49 < dongs> ok so
2019-04-16T07:25:56 < dongs> 'fifo to i2c' in that png
2019-04-16T07:26:01 < dongs> what im supposed to do actualyl is
2019-04-16T07:26:11 < dongs> 96W 58 01
2019-04-16T07:26:15 < dongs> 96W 5f
2019-04-16T07:26:27 < dongs> 96R [16 reads]
2019-04-16T07:26:57 < dongs> i mean this is standard shit, t hats how normal stuff works but fuck ME that is the worst fucking visual representation of this i have ever fucking seen
2019-04-16T07:27:10 < dongs> their example:
2019-04-16T07:27:12 < jadew`> what is FIFO in that case?
2019-04-16T07:27:14 < dongs> 96 58 01 00
2019-04-16T07:27:18 < rajkosto> ack all 16 reads and see what happens ;)
2019-04-16T07:27:18 < dongs> 96 5f 10  ff
2019-04-16T07:27:22 < jadew`> it seems like some automated stuff
2019-04-16T07:27:25 < jadew`> it's an interface?
2019-04-16T07:27:34 < dongs> rajkosto: ? i dont care, this is standard i2c protocol
2019-04-16T07:27:48 < jadew`> dongs what's the problem?
2019-04-16T07:27:56 < jadew`> you can't read or you can't write?
2019-04-16T07:27:58 < dongs> jadew`: the way its explained by c hinks
2019-04-16T07:28:16 < dongs> i can now, now that I fucked around and understood what their idiot example means
2019-04-16T07:29:06 < dongs> on what planet is
2019-04-16T07:29:06 < dongs> < dongs> 96 58 01 00
2019-04-16T07:29:06 < dongs> < dongs> 96 5f 10 ff
2019-04-16T07:29:06 < dongs> ==
2019-04-16T07:29:06 < dongs> Sta 96W 58 01 Sto Sta 96W 5f Sto Sta 96R [16 reads] Sto
2019-04-16T07:29:06 < jadew`> it means you can read and write in 16 byte pages, no?
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2019-04-16T07:29:51 < jadew`> the first two writes are configuration parameters?
2019-04-16T07:29:58 < dongs> .
2019-04-16T07:30:03 < dongs> are you thick, or am i that retarded
2019-04-16T07:30:13 < dongs> i dont give a fuck what the writes are
2019-04-16T07:30:20 < dongs> my complaint is how the fucking shit is presented
2019-04-16T07:30:32 < jadew`> ah, right
2019-04-16T07:30:42 < dongs> how the fuck am i supposed to guess that the 2nd line with 10 ff is representing a repeat start read transaction with subaddress
2019-04-16T07:33:36 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/wDHzOOd.png finally getting proper replies
2019-04-16T07:43:08 < dongs> whats at beginning of 8051 usually?
2019-04-16T07:43:31 < dongs>  02 0B 8F EF C3 94 0E 40 04 E4 FF 80 02 0F 0F 22
2019-04-16T07:43:36 < dongs> i have these bytes adn no idea wat it is
2019-04-16T07:43:47 < dongs> how does a nigga detect 8051 code
2019-04-16T07:51:54 < PaulFertser> I'd guess it should start with long jump to reset handler.
2019-04-16T07:52:27 < PaulFertser> 02 is ljmp opcode
2019-04-16T07:56:00 < dongs> so ljmp to 0b8f? allright
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2019-04-16T07:59:11 < rajkosto> the interrupt vectors on 8051 arent pointers they are just spaces left to put code in so you gotta encode ljmp if you need more than the supplied couple of instructions worth
2019-04-16T08:03:06 < dongs> wtf
2019-04-16T08:03:11 < dongs> zyps shit does nothing today
2019-04-16T08:04:28 < dongs>  oh uits FUcking VMWARE again
2019-04-16T08:04:30 < dongs> motherfucking cunts
2019-04-16T08:04:59 < rajkosto> how did you fuck up vmware so it keeps stealing your usb
2019-04-16T08:05:08 < rajkosto> without notifying you
2019-04-16T08:05:08 < dongs> its the new moron way of doing it
2019-04-16T08:05:21 < dongs> before, "connect usb to FOREGROUND VM" meant LITERALLY THAT
2019-04-16T08:05:25 < dongs> as in, i msut have FOCUS IN TEH FUCKING VM
2019-04-16T08:05:27 < dongs> for USB to go there
2019-04-16T08:05:33 < rajkosto> its no longer like that ?
2019-04-16T08:05:35 < dongs> correct
2019-04-16T08:05:39 < rajkosto> you could have set a usb device to always go to the vm
2019-04-16T08:05:41 < dongs> now it will go to the currently open tab
2019-04-16T08:05:44 < rajkosto> but it was explicit
2019-04-16T08:05:45 < dongs> even if its miminized
2019-04-16T08:05:46 < dongs> or wahtever
2019-04-16T08:05:54 < dongs> which is Fucking beyond rage inducing
2019-04-16T08:06:11 < rajkosto> what if you close it
2019-04-16T08:06:21 < dongs> close the VM?
2019-04-16T08:06:24 < dongs> yeah if oyu're in 'home' tab its ok
2019-04-16T08:06:27 < dongs> it wont get forwarded on plug in
2019-04-16T08:06:36 < dongs> anyway, the fucking thing about having focus before attach
2019-04-16T08:06:40 < dongs> vs just attach to any foreground vm
2019-04-16T08:06:42 < rajkosto> i usually just close vmware completely and then open it back up with the system tray
2019-04-16T08:06:45 < dongs> is a breaking, and ANNOYING AS FUCK change
2019-04-16T08:06:54 < dongs> i have VMs running in foreground all the time
2019-04-16T08:06:58 < rajkosto> the vms run even if you dont look at them
2019-04-16T08:07:15 < R2COM> vmware sucks
2019-04-16T08:07:24 < rajkosto> at least its not virtualbox (tm)
2019-04-16T08:07:33 < R2COM> virtualbox rules
2019-04-16T08:07:38 < rajkosto> its the worst thing
2019-04-16T08:07:55 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/mGrwcy61.html
2019-04-16T08:07:59 < dongs> how does this look for 8051 dump
2019-04-16T08:08:43 < rajkosto> interrutps for 8051 are at
2019-04-16T08:08:52 < rajkosto> 0003h, 000bh, 0013h, 001bh, 0023h
2019-04-16T08:08:58 < rajkosto> etc
2019-04-16T08:10:33 < rajkosto> the thing with 8051 is that everyone and their mom customizes the cores
2019-04-16T08:10:37 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/RemPff40.html
2019-04-16T08:10:40 < dongs> that looks like entire dump
2019-04-16T08:10:43 < dongs> the rest of the shit is ffff's
2019-04-16T08:12:01 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-04-16_07-11-57_ylOPZaXU9.png why dont you set it to ask me what to do
2019-04-16T08:12:15 < dongs> i dont want shit stealing focus asking me each time
2019-04-16T08:12:27 < dongs> the last option was PERFECT until they FUCKED WITH IT
2019-04-16T08:12:36 < dongs> foreground = i am in that VM and have focus
2019-04-16T08:12:40 < rajkosto> can choose the 1st one and then swap it to VMs whenever you need it
2019-04-16T08:12:46 < dongs> not foreground = its running, and its window is open, and minimized
2019-04-16T08:12:54 < dongs> no
2019-04-16T08:13:02 < dongs> the way it was done before change simply worked
2019-04-16T08:13:11 < rajkosto> uninstall 15 and install 12 then
2019-04-16T08:13:41 < dongs> where teh fuck is some online 8051 disassembler shit
2019-04-16T08:13:57 < rajkosto> i would have stuck it into mine if you didnt have address prefixes on
2019-04-16T08:14:05 < dongs> i can print it without them..
2019-04-16T08:14:38 < rajkosto> but again which customized core to choose to dissasemble for
2019-04-16T08:15:01 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/DskXVI49.html
2019-04-16T08:15:08 < dongs> i dont think it matters... its typical chink 8051
2019-04-16T08:15:39 < rajkosto> the base 8051 isnt useful enough
2019-04-16T08:15:40 < dongs> i mean at least it LOOKS like code and not random garbage
2019-04-16T08:15:50 < rajkosto> it doesnt even have dual DPTR afaicr
2019-04-16T08:17:02 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-04-16_07-16-59_6cpAjVER2.png seems good maybe
2019-04-16T08:17:28 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-04-16_07-17-17_k8AjItdFH.png https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-04-16_07-17-25_c9ymd7VRe.png
2019-04-16T08:18:04 < dongs> ok, at least doesnt look random shit eh
2019-04-16T08:19:08 < rajkosto> interrupt has a lot of pushes https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-04-16_07-19-00_y79jZoms1.png so its 8051 alright
2019-04-16T08:19:36 < rajkosto> what is it for
2019-04-16T08:19:50 < dongs> ah this usb-pd controller thing.
2019-04-16T08:20:00 < dongs> im waiting for chinks to send me hex
2019-04-16T08:20:06 < dongs> the shit they gave me was firmware update over i2c
2019-04-16T08:20:10 < dongs> that I wanted to implement
2019-04-16T08:20:26 < dongs> so i wanted to read it out first and see 
2019-04-16T08:20:31 < dongs> before failing it with writing
2019-04-16T08:20:59 < rajkosto> you might have fucked up the last byte out of every 16 you dont know
2019-04-16T08:21:14 < rajkosto> most random bytes decode as 8051 so
2019-04-16T08:21:27 < dongs> haha
2019-04-16T08:21:41 < dongs> well im waiting to hear back from them with the .ex
2019-04-16T08:21:42 < dongs> hex
2019-04-16T08:21:56 < rajkosto> i wanted the 8051 firmware for usb3 hubs
2019-04-16T08:22:04 < dongs> the VLI shits ?
2019-04-16T08:22:07 < rajkosto> nobody wanted anything to do with me
2019-04-16T08:22:08 < rajkosto> yes
2019-04-16T08:22:12 < dongs> hehe
2019-04-16T08:22:20 < rajkosto> they have a firmware configurator
2019-04-16T08:22:34 < rajkosto> that lets you define ports nad whats on them and if they are hotpluggable etc etc
2019-04-16T08:22:35 < dongs> that sorta shit usually comes with a cancerous chink-only windows .exe
2019-04-16T08:22:38 < dongs> that lets you configure shit etc
2019-04-16T08:22:41 < rajkosto> yes i wanted that
2019-04-16T08:22:46 < rajkosto> i found some random ass firmwares on the net sure 
2019-04-16T08:24:00 < dongs> hm but if thats how big this thing is, i could even include a firmware update image inside my code
2019-04-16T08:24:13 < dongs> this shit is less than 4k
2019-04-16T08:24:18 < rajkosto> the usb3 hub 8051s dont do shit other than blink the leds and init some things
2019-04-16T08:24:56 < dongs> tho I'd probly poke zyp and steal some i2c hid thing to do the transfer
2019-04-16T08:33:55 < qyx> 1. ADC is not measuring the rignt values
2019-04-16T08:34:07 < qyx> -> copy some actual values with the right counterparts to wolfram alpha
2019-04-16T08:34:14 < qyx> select curve fit
2019-04-16T08:34:21 < qyx> copy the resulting formula into the code
2019-04-16T08:34:23 < qyx> profit.
2019-04-16T08:34:36 < rajkosto> gamma correction ?
2019-04-16T08:35:00 < rajkosto> that changes with output power and load impedance tho
2019-04-16T08:35:48 < qyx> no, the sdadc on F3 has some error which is actually linear
2019-04-16T08:35:55 < qyx> and I didn't investigate the source
2019-04-16T08:36:54 < qyx> calibration tries to compensate the offset but it is too big
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2019-04-16T09:09:45 < NVIRQ> your punchable dummy is back. I removed the sensor and replaced it with a button and things still weren't working, or at least not consistently. I finally figured out 2 problems I had, but one of those 2 I can't explain: __HAL_GPIO_EXTI_GET_IT...
2019-04-16T09:10:28 < NVIRQ> According to the comment for that macro and the drivers information: retval The new state of __EXTI_LINE__ (SET or RESET)
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2019-04-16T09:11:18 < NVIRQ> SET and RESET are 1 and 0 respectively. But for some reason, I was getting the pin# as the return value. When I added another test for an unused pin, the return value was 0.
2019-04-16T09:11:43 < PaulFertser> NVIRQ: usually when working with ST libraries you need to be reading not only its docs but also its sources and the chip family reference manual.
2019-04-16T09:11:44 < NVIRQ> The entire macro is: #define __HAL_GPIO_EXTI_GET_IT(__EXTI_LINE__) (EXTI->PR & (__EXTI_LINE__))
2019-04-16T09:14:38 < NVIRQ> I assume PR is maybe a "pin register". The macro comment for EXTI_LINE says "This parameter can be GPIO_PIN_x where x can be(0..15)". I passed in GPIO_PIN_6. I'll take a look at what PR does.
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2019-04-16T09:14:45 < PaulFertser> NVIRQ: and yes, their documentation is often misleading. You can only meaningfully compare what that macro returns with RESET.
2019-04-16T09:15:16 < PaulFertser> NVIRQ: because the macro will return you either 0 or __EXTI_LINE__.
2019-04-16T09:16:58 < NVIRQ> Got it. Thanks Paul. I'm not all that fluent with bit operators so that probably would've been obvious if I was.
2019-04-16T09:20:20 < NVIRQ> Ah, "Pending Register".
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2019-04-16T11:20:41 < NVIRQ> Is there any reason why an interrupt returns immediately for certain timers? For example, TIM7 works as expected, but TIM6 interrupt is triggered the moment after HAL_TIM_Base_Start_IT is called https://electronics.stackexchange.com/.../stm32-timer-interrupt-works-immediately. 
2019-04-16T11:20:54 < NVIRQ> I have to call __HAL_TIM_CLEAR_FLAG after the TIM Init.
2019-04-16T11:20:56 < dongs> nice link bro
2019-04-16T11:21:11 < dongs> you have to clear the IT flag yes
2019-04-16T11:21:51 < NVIRQ> Yeah, I learned how to use the internet a moment ago. (good troll response?) But I didn't have to clear it for TIM7 prior to the Start_IT call.
2019-04-16T11:22:10 < dongs> sorry i have no idea what that means.
2019-04-16T11:22:20 < dongs> on stm32, when you get interrupt, you want to clear that flag
2019-04-16T11:22:24 < dongs> or else you'll keep getting the interrupt.
2019-04-16T11:22:26 < dongs> and you don't want that.
2019-04-16T11:22:31 < dongs> i have no idea what Start_IT is.
2019-04-16T11:24:19 < NVIRQ> Right, I got that, but you clear it when the interrupt is first triggered, right? It shouldn't have to be cleared during the Init. It's why I'm wondering why it doesn't need it when using TIM7, but is needed for TIM6. Those are just the HAL functions: HAL_TIM_Base_Start_IT and __HAL_TIM_CLEAR_FLAG
2019-04-16T11:24:47 < NVIRQ> and the Init: HAL_TIM_Base_Init
2019-04-16T11:44:39 < NVIRQ> Ugh, I didn't realize you were serious about the link. I just noticed the "/.../". It's actually "https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/161967/stm32-timer-interrupt-works-immediately" Right now I'm looking for a difference between "pending bits" and "flag".
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2019-04-16T12:10:45 < dongs> nice
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2019-04-16T12:10:56 < dongs> CRC32 of the shit I read out matches what was on the box of chips
2019-04-16T12:12:03 < qyx> no cloning check?
2019-04-16T12:14:12 < dongs> donno
2019-04-16T12:14:16 < dongs> i dont think they're too worried
2019-04-16T12:14:24 < dongs> their stuff is mostly in hardware
2019-04-16T12:14:32 < dongs> the PD controller and shit
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2019-04-16T12:35:32 < qyx> uh using 2x47uF ceramic caps on a buck converter output feeding a GPRS module causes the board to sing on 217Hz
2019-04-16T12:35:35 < qyx> or whats the freq
2019-04-16T12:45:01 < jpa-> 217Hz yeah
2019-04-16T12:45:15 < dongs> what
2019-04-16T12:45:20 < dongs> what about that number
2019-04-16T12:45:35 < jpa-> it's the GSM packet interval, causes huge power spikes at that freq
2019-04-16T12:45:42 < dongs> oh..
2019-04-16T12:46:03 < dongs> http://www.electronicsfaq.com/2010/05/gsm-217hz-tdma-noise.html cool
2019-04-16T12:46:04 < dongs> wtf
2019-04-16T12:46:39 < jpa-> many audio codecs support a notch filter that blocks 217Hz freq
2019-04-16T12:48:53 < jpa-> but for power supply, not sure if there is anything better than just series resistor or inductor (hard to get enough inductance at such low frequency) and a tantalum or electrolytic cap
2019-04-16T12:50:46 < qyx> the problem is probably with the caps themselves
2019-04-16T12:51:11 < jpa-> yeah, ceramics make sound, especially Y5V and other cheap dielectrics
2019-04-16T12:51:39 < qyx> those are X5R, I used alu electrolytics before and the board was quiet
2019-04-16T12:51:46 < dongs> well then
2019-04-16T12:51:48 < dongs> theres  your problem
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2019-04-16T12:59:21 < jpa-> you can also get those caps that are on short metal risers
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2019-04-16T13:00:22 < qyx> or mount them antipodally
2019-04-16T13:00:47 < qyx> I'll try tantalum and see
2019-04-16T13:01:55 < qyx> or polymer
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2019-04-16T14:16:15 < karlp> if catphish comes back tell him to put a jack with switches on it for the output, so he can go low power when there's no output connected, and fucking burn that 78l33 if he wants to run off a 9v battery. fuck me.
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2019-04-16T14:27:06 < karlp> this might be interesting for usbc dev shits https://blog.st.com/usb-c-pd-ecosystem-stm32g0/
2019-04-16T14:27:18 < karlp> builds in a tool for checking modes and declared availabilities
2019-04-16T14:28:08  * marble_visions was just praising how atmel start is sexier than stm32cube but then the site went down
2019-04-16T14:28:54 < karlp> https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/stm32g071b-disco.html more particularlyl
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2019-04-16T15:09:32 < dongs> karlp: lol, have you seen cube pd stack?
2019-04-16T15:09:36 < dongs> its fucking filth, absolute filth
2019-04-16T15:09:42 < dongs> i dont wanna do PD anything on STM
2019-04-16T15:11:14 < zyp> haha
2019-04-16T15:11:32 < mitrax> ST's HAL libraries are shit
2019-04-16T15:11:52 < zyp> as long as the hardware is nice, just build your own software for it
2019-04-16T15:13:23 < mitrax> i've updated the usb host lib cause the version i had was buggy and failed to recognize a drive after a fast plug/unplug, the lastest version comes with a new bug and fails when a device fails to respond to  a query for LUNs > 0, it keeps querying indefinitely as it gets a busy response
2019-04-16T15:19:28 < dongs> LoRa fags: whats stopping 100+ devices contacting one gateway
2019-04-16T15:19:34 < dongs> does protocol have some collision/etc stuff built in
2019-04-16T15:19:37 < dongs> or do you have to code for it
2019-04-16T15:20:13 < dongs> this fucktard keeps bothering me about this shit, i dont give the slightest fuck about it, but im tired of hearing shit like "1 uplink 8 downlink, it can only support 8 devices per $4000 gateway" or someshit like that
2019-04-16T15:20:37 < dongs> surely a RF protocol in 2019 should be able to fucking multitask few 100 devices if thats its purpose
2019-04-16T15:26:40 < mitrax> zyp: i use as little as code from ST as possible and would likely rewrite everything from scratch if i had time, still one would expect ST to provide libraries that don't look like they've been written by interns 
2019-04-16T15:27:39 < mitrax> guess i'll switch to libopencm3 or something
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2019-04-16T15:30:06 < Cracki> dongs, lora isn't for 4k video streaming obviously. https://www.murata.com/en-eu/support/faqs/products/lpwa/lora/hardware/0009
2019-04-16T15:30:53 < dongs> tahnk you
2019-04-16T15:31:57 < Cracki> he prolly calculates with maxed out bw, which is retarded
2019-04-16T15:32:24 < Cracki> iirc commercial "cell providers" charge you per packet and limit/punish packet rate
2019-04-16T15:33:37 < Cracki> kek wikipedia's stock photo module has a spring antenna https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5a/LoRa_Module_with_antenna_and_SPI_wires_attached.jpg
2019-04-16T15:35:19 < dongs> https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/forum/t/best-approach-to-otaa-join-for-multiple-devices-turning-on-at-the-same-time/24586/3
2019-04-16T15:37:06 < Cracki> data rate a thousand times lower than common wifi, so I'd expect all the delays to be that much worse
2019-04-16T15:39:18 < karlp> mitrax:no usb host in locm3, though there is one of the forks.
2019-04-16T15:40:18 < karlp> lora sounds like a fucking wreck
2019-04-16T15:45:18 < Cracki> from browsing forum.loraserver.io, it's pozzed with hipsters and webshit, so if I had to use this, I'd probably avoid those and go straight for mfg documentation and standards specs
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2019-04-16T15:46:08 < mitrax> karlp: ok, thanks
2019-04-16T15:46:13 < Cracki> (same as thethingsnetwork)
2019-04-16T15:49:29 < Cracki> ehhhh someone says nodes can (try to) send (and collide) whenever they want. maybe imposing a tight timing scheme on top would be smart. that's what that one shop I worked at did with their custom nrf stuff. 500 nodes all sending every second or so
2019-04-16T15:49:35 < Cracki> (not lora)
2019-04-16T15:51:31 < Cracki> lora +scheduling, I instantly get academic papers...
2019-04-16T15:53:38 < marble_visions> Cracki: a practical approach: http://www.prismmodelchecker.org/casestudies/zigbee.php#protocol
2019-04-16T15:54:02 < marble_visions> ignore that it's for zigbee
2019-04-16T15:54:15 < Cracki> yeh I've had a lecture on mobile network tech, they browsed through all that stuff
2019-04-16T15:54:37 < Cracki> cell networks have had scheduling since forever because it's a good idea
2019-04-16T15:55:09 < Cracki> people went from ethernet "bus" to point-to-point because it's a good idea
2019-04-16T15:55:42 < Cracki> roads have traffic lights because shouting and honking isn't a viable strategy
2019-04-16T15:56:13 < Cracki> lora seems... "casual" about "having goals"
2019-04-16T15:56:35 < marble_visions> well, if you need it in software, you need to pick avoidance, resolution, or detection, no other way around it
2019-04-16T15:56:48 < Cracki> certainly
2019-04-16T15:57:13 < Cracki> but why "in software"? doesn't matter if it's sw or hw, _something_ has to be smart about medium access
2019-04-16T15:57:59 < Cracki> by "resolution" i assume you mean scheduling (time/space/code/freq division) schemes?
2019-04-16T15:58:38 < marble_visions> no, i mean it like as in how CAN has address prioritysation
2019-04-16T15:58:43 < Cracki> ah
2019-04-16T15:59:31 < Cracki> can is a wire, you're guaranteed to see everything, just with a delay. radio has effects like "hidden station"(?) where you don't know you're talking into the receiver's ear concurrently with someone else
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2019-04-16T16:00:41 < marble_visions> from my point as a software guy, i try to push everything i can to be done in hw.. doesn't matter if it's radio, copper, glass, pidgeons
2019-04-16T16:01:17 < Cracki> sand cannot think
2019-04-16T16:02:47 < marble_visions> if you put enough lightning inside it it does :D
2019-04-16T16:02:56 < Cracki> the LoRa lingo gives me the creeps. "1% duty cycle". feels like total anarchy.
2019-04-16T16:03:13 < dongs> 1% dongule cycle
2019-04-16T16:03:13 < marble_visions> so i'm not missing out on this lora thing
2019-04-16T16:03:18 < marble_visions> am i?
2019-04-16T16:03:53 < Cracki> that shit has been around for how many years now? and they forgot EVERYTHING humanity learned about radio
2019-04-16T16:03:55 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/kJfXT6N.png this is the trash i was told after I said "draw a fucking mspaint" of what the fuck youre trying to do"
2019-04-16T16:03:58 < dongs> ffs
2019-04-16T16:04:25 < Cracki> uhhh
2019-04-16T16:05:54 < Cracki> this could be very enterprise, IF you put the "Pi" in a metal case
2019-04-16T16:06:05 < marble_visions> lol
2019-04-16T16:06:48 < Cracki> I don't trust node.js either but with enough love/rape it might not turn out too bad
2019-04-16T16:06:49 < mawk> sigfox is low duty cycle too
2019-04-16T16:06:55 < mawk> it's european law, it's not about lora specifically
2019-04-16T16:07:01 < Cracki> sigfox, is that aligned with mozilla or something?
2019-04-16T16:07:04 < mawk> it's the ISM band, you can't occupy it all the time
2019-04-16T16:07:11 < mawk> it's a french company
2019-04-16T16:07:16 < mawk> not related with mozilla
2019-04-16T16:07:37 < Cracki> wifi is ism too, and nobody cares about whether you stream 4K or only use it for irc and email
2019-04-16T16:07:49 < Cracki> but then wifi freqs don't propagate that far
2019-04-16T16:08:29 < Cracki> still, they would do well to impose some structure to remove collisions
2019-04-16T16:09:00 < Cracki> >ALOHA protocol
2019-04-16T16:09:08 < Cracki> haha that was maybe lesson two of that lecture
2019-04-16T16:09:09 < mawk> you can send 100 bytes and receive 20 bytes per day, something like this
2019-04-16T16:09:24 < mawk> otherwise you get a fine
2019-04-16T16:09:33 < mawk> and can get banned from the network
2019-04-16T16:10:00 < Cracki> lora specs read like an exercise in Political Correctness
2019-04-16T16:10:23 < Cracki> >The resulting frequency diversity makes the system more robust to interferences
2019-04-16T16:10:28 < mawk> lol
2019-04-16T16:10:38 < Cracki> yeah well it's the tower of fucking babel
2019-04-16T16:10:48 < BrainDamage> http://www.ti.com/lit/an/swra048/swra048.pdf page 12
2019-04-16T16:11:44 < BrainDamage> and 11
2019-04-16T16:12:25 < Cracki> very informative
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2019-04-16T16:16:23 < Cracki> huh, first mention of "rx window" I see related to lora. it's sensible, but I don't think lora does it?
2019-04-16T16:16:48 < Cracki> ah, device classes, nvm
2019-04-16T16:18:39 < Cracki> awesome, they specify a/b/c for receive windows, but nobody thought of even specifying the possibility of transmit windows?
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2019-04-16T16:35:24 < bitmask> and the waiting begins!
2019-04-16T16:35:26 < bitmask> gonna be a long day
2019-04-16T16:36:50 < mawk> go have a beer
2019-04-16T16:37:01 < bitmask> thats a bad idea :P
2019-04-16T16:37:13 < bitmask> I need to choose a project to work on
2019-04-16T16:37:21 < bitmask> I think I'll organize my parts
2019-04-16T16:37:29 < bitmask> doesnt require much attention, busy work
2019-04-16T16:37:50 < dongs> wheer teh fuck does a nigga find 900MHz-3.6GHz balun
2019-04-16T16:38:08 < dongs> are there any without retarded mhz spec that just work
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2019-04-16T16:45:39 < jadew`> why 3.6?
2019-04-16T16:45:51 < dongs> i donno actually lemme see what t his weird trash range is
2019-04-16T16:46:23 < dongs> 3224MHz is end
2019-04-16T16:46:28 < dongs> so i guess 3.2-3.3
2019-04-16T16:48:48 < jadew`> https://ww2.minicircuits.com/pdfs/NCS1-332+.pdf
2019-04-16T16:49:00 < dongs> what hte fuck
2019-04-16T16:49:03 < dongs> why was this not on digikey
2019-04-16T16:49:25 < jadew`> costs about $1
2019-04-16T16:49:33 < dongs> but yeah someshit like this
2019-04-16T16:49:41 < dongs> single ended RF input to balanced or whatever
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2019-04-16T16:50:20 < jadew`> yeah, you ground one side
2019-04-16T16:50:23 < dongs> right
2019-04-16T16:51:40 < dongs> so is niggercircuits the only plae to buy these?
2019-04-16T16:51:50 < dongs> oh i guess they do have a webstore
2019-04-16T16:51:56 < jadew`> yeah, but it sucks
2019-04-16T16:52:02 < dongs> no doubt
2019-04-16T16:52:05 < jadew`> you have a minimum qty and huge shipping costs
2019-04-16T16:52:20 < jadew`> (a rather high minimum quantity usually)
2019-04-16T16:52:20 < dongs> i'd probly buy like 1k of these so thats not a big deal but
2019-04-16T16:52:22 < dongs> still
2019-04-16T16:52:24 < dongs> that price is retarded
2019-04-16T16:52:37 < dongs> wat makes that shit so expensive
2019-04-16T16:53:35 < jadew`> don't know, you can find more expensive ones too
2019-04-16T16:54:21 < jadew`> I like the package these ones are in
2019-04-16T16:55:01 < jadew`> the ones that go lower in frequency tend to have a tiny coil glued on top of a ceramic base
2019-04-16T16:55:14 < jadew`> very flimsy, if you bump them too hard the coil comes off
2019-04-16T16:55:31 < dongs> i guess low doesn't need to be that low
2019-04-16T16:55:36 < dongs> looks like 1ghz+ is enough
2019-04-16T16:55:57 < dongs> 1032->3224
2019-04-16T16:55:57 < jadew`> there are other manufacturers of baluns out there
2019-04-16T16:56:05 < dongs> TDK for example
2019-04-16T16:56:10 < dongs> but i dont see any that fit this 1ghz-3ghz spec
2019-04-16T16:56:14 < dongs> most are like TV band and shit
2019-04-16T16:56:20 < dongs> < 800mhz type crap
2019-04-16T16:56:25 < dongs> or LTE-specific shit 800/1.2/etc
2019-04-16T16:57:05 < jadew`> try MACOM too
2019-04-16T16:57:12 < rajkosto> baluns/"1:1 transformers" are expensive yes
2019-04-16T16:57:14 < dongs> macom is what was on digikey
2019-04-16T16:57:15 < dongs> $2/ea
2019-04-16T16:57:21 < dongs> for 5mhz>8GHz
2019-04-16T16:57:26 < dongs> which was the only thing that fit into my range
2019-04-16T16:57:42 < dongs> is there a cheaper way to nigger single ended into balanced
2019-04-16T16:58:13 < jadew`> depends on where you're getting your output from
2019-04-16T16:58:20 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/d2DKvjw.png
2019-04-16T16:58:27 < dongs> of course that P/N doesnt exist on TDK site
2019-04-16T16:58:28 < jadew`> sometimes you can just short one of the lines to ground through a cap
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2019-04-16T16:59:06 < jadew`> if that's the recommended output network, then you probably need a balun
2019-04-16T16:59:11 < dongs> gay
2019-04-16T16:59:12 < jadew`> (not 100% sure tho)
2019-04-16T16:59:21 < jadew`> sometimes it's only added so you get the best performance
2019-04-16T16:59:22 < dongs> left side is input
2019-04-16T16:59:29 < dongs> right side is output
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2019-04-16T17:00:20 < jadew`> depends how much you care about the signal's loss
2019-04-16T17:00:42 < jadew`> if it's an input, you can surely short it without any problems
2019-04-16T17:00:44 < dongs> nothing in the last decade needed baluns
2019-04-16T17:00:49 < dongs> these niggers made a new chip and it does
2019-04-16T17:01:05 < jadew`> so the input is differential, correct?
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2019-04-16T17:01:29 < jadew`> the input to the IC
2019-04-16T17:01:40 < dongs> antenna -> that tarsh -> P/N to IC
2019-04-16T17:01:42 < dongs> yes
2019-04-16T17:02:39 < jadew`> ok, then if you short one of the lines to ground, through a cap, it should still work
2019-04-16T17:02:55 < dongs> https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Three-methods-to-convert-a-single-ended-signal-from-an-antenna-to-differential-signals-in_fig21_224387563
2019-04-16T17:03:04 < dongs> why so much wank
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2019-04-16T17:03:27 < mawk> We've picked up some unusual traffic from your network and have temporarily blocked access from your IP address.
2019-04-16T17:03:31 < mawk> your site is racist
2019-04-16T17:03:38 < dongs> bant from digikey?
2019-04-16T17:03:43 < dongs> oh, researchgayte?
2019-04-16T17:04:03 < mawk> yes
2019-04-16T17:04:23 < mawk> good thing I'm a google pro master and I can view the page in cache mode
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2019-04-16T17:06:09 < dongs> jadew, does that really invert phase of the input
2019-04-16T17:06:22 < dongs> like /\/\ becomes \/\/ on the other side?
2019-04-16T17:06:32 < dongs> the 'balanced' shit
2019-04-16T17:06:35 < dongs> or is this something else
2019-04-16T17:06:35 < jadew`> you mean the balun or the cap thing?
2019-04-16T17:06:39 < dongs> the balun yeah
2019-04-16T17:06:45 < dongs> i mean, waht the fuck does it actually do
2019-04-16T17:06:59 < jadew`> the balun will make it so the two lines will be 180 degrees out of phase
2019-04-16T17:07:14 < dongs> s> like /\/\ becomes \/\/ on the other side?
2019-04-16T17:07:16 < dongs> so this yeah?
2019-04-16T17:07:18 < jadew`> yeah
2019-04-16T17:07:54 < jadew`> but if you short one line to ground, you get the same thing (almost)
2019-04-16T17:08:00 < jadew`> just... half the signal
2019-04-16T17:08:34 < dongs> https://www.renesas.com/jp/ja/www/doc/datasheet/isl55016.pdf
2019-04-16T17:08:38 < dongs> why this has no frequency spec
2019-04-16T17:08:40 < dongs> is it not same thing?
2019-04-16T17:09:22 < jadew`> it does have
2019-04-16T17:09:25 < dongs> oh it has some 3ghz charts at the middle of ds
2019-04-16T17:09:28 < jadew`> it's 2.2 GHz
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2019-04-16T17:09:36 < jadew`> that's the 3 dB BW
2019-04-16T17:09:37 < dongs> where you see that
2019-04-16T17:09:48 < jadew`> in that table
2019-04-16T17:09:53 < jadew`> at the bottom
2019-04-16T17:10:01 < jadew`> 3rd row from the bottom
2019-04-16T17:10:04 < jadew`> BW_diff
2019-04-16T17:10:11 < dongs> oh okay
2019-04-16T17:10:12 < dongs> hm.
2019-04-16T17:10:33 < dongs> anyway
2019-04-16T17:10:36 < dongs> it costs more than balun
2019-04-16T17:10:38 < dongs> so that doesnt matter lol
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2019-04-16T17:17:06 < zyp> what are you dicking around with?
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2019-04-16T18:13:11 < kakimir> Error: Could not find MEM-AP to control the core  
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2019-04-16T18:32:53 < kakimir> why don't IDE say shit when flashing goes shitty
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2019-04-16T18:34:16 < Cracki> wut
2019-04-16T18:34:23 < kakimir> yees
2019-04-16T18:34:25 < Cracki> are you using vim or something
2019-04-16T18:34:42 < Cracki> check "verify firmware" maybe
2019-04-16T18:34:49 < kakimir> gnu mcu eclipse
2019-04-16T18:35:58 < kakimir> there is just "load"
2019-04-16T18:36:02 < kakimir> there is no verify
2019-04-16T18:36:12 < kakimir> I have been playing with old firmware for days
2019-04-16T18:36:23 < kakimir> "seems to work"
2019-04-16T18:36:38 < kakimir> "why doesn't this problem go away"
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2019-04-16T18:41:49 < kakimir> reset didn't work -> interrupt -> something something -> flash not written
2019-04-16T18:46:11 < kakimir> initial reset is set as "reset halt"
2019-04-16T18:46:28 < kakimir> should I probs set something to Pre-Run/Restart reset?
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2019-04-16T19:04:53 < PaulFertser> kakimir: to verify in gdb you can do "compare-sections"
2019-04-16T19:05:47 < kakimir> I don't know gdb
2019-04-16T19:06:39 < kakimir> I could add it to Run/Restart commands?
2019-04-16T19:07:22 < PaulFertser> kakimir: I guess, I'm not using any fancy GDB frontends.
2019-04-16T19:07:30 < PaulFertser> "load" is the gdb command
2019-04-16T19:11:40 < kakimir> ye
2019-04-16T19:11:48 < kakimir> frontends suck
2019-04-16T19:11:54 < kakimir> but so do I
2019-04-16T19:17:58 < mawk> my code must run in under a ms, core is at 80MHz, how do I compute the rough number of C "instructions" I have ? I feel 1ms is a big amount of time with 80MHz cpu but not sure
2019-04-16T19:17:59 < kakimir> luckily I don't even need to debug
2019-04-16T19:18:11 < mawk> if I take like 10 clock cycles per simple C instruction it's a good approximation ?
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2019-04-16T19:18:49 < kakimir> why you don't just measure it?
2019-04-16T19:18:58 < Cracki> maybe, maybe not
2019-04-16T19:19:02 < mawk> good idea
2019-04-16T19:19:04 < Cracki> impossible to tell
2019-04-16T19:19:22 < Cracki> in any case you get 80k cycles
2019-04-16T19:19:29 < mawk> 80M you mean ?
2019-04-16T19:19:34 < Cracki> run your code, toggle a gpio, time that?
2019-04-16T19:19:36 < Cracki> yes
2019-04-16T19:21:12 < specing> mawk: what is a "C instruction"?
2019-04-16T19:21:18 < specing> it has statements, not instructions :)
2019-04-16T19:21:27 < mawk> hence the ""
2019-04-16T19:21:34 <@englishman> karlp: I had a 5 second look at st's pd stack and ran the fuck away
2019-04-16T19:21:38 < mawk> I meant anything simple
2019-04-16T19:21:43 < specing> mawk: ah ok, was looking at the second line
2019-04-16T19:21:44 <@englishman> also Lora is awesome
2019-04-16T19:21:46 < mawk> like assigning to pointer, assigning to variable
2019-04-16T19:21:57 < specing> mawk: u32 A += B is 1 cycle
2019-04-16T19:22:10 < mawk> ah, good
2019-04-16T19:22:28 < mawk> without instruction cache since the program is ran from flash it's like 5 CPU cycles per instruction fetch
2019-04-16T19:22:43 < mawk> but with instruction cache enabled it's like amortized constant and I shouldn't care
2019-04-16T19:22:45 < mawk> right
2019-04-16T19:23:03 < specing> mawk: only if cpu frequency is > 24 MHz or so
2019-04-16T19:23:20 < specing> if it is below 24 MHz then flash can keep up with CPU and fetch is 1 cycle
2019-04-16T19:23:51 < specing> mawk: why don't you objdump your code and see for yourself?
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2019-04-16T19:24:34 < mawk> yeah by C instruction I just meant instruction actually
2019-04-16T19:24:47 < mawk> I was just wondering if one instruction is exactly one clock cycle everytime
2019-04-16T19:24:54 < specing> mawk: This is the oneliner I use to compile: { gprbuild -P led_zfp.gpr -v -s  -largs -Wl,--gc-sections && arm-eabi-objcopy -O binary obj/stm32f030r8 prog.bin && arm-eabi-size obj/stm32f030r8 ; arm-eabi-objdump -S obj/stm32f030r8 > prog.S; }
2019-04-16T19:25:19 < specing> mawk: when it completes, prog.S contains annotated disassembly (with high level code in comments)
2019-04-16T19:25:25 < mawk> ah good
2019-04-16T19:25:39 < mawk> for annotated disassembly I use as -alhnd=out.lst file.S
2019-04-16T19:25:43 < mawk> but it has annoying debug info
2019-04-16T19:26:40 < karlp> englishman: I was kinda more looking at the usb c alt modes and pd analyser sw, 
2019-04-16T19:27:00 < karlp> they're promising to deliver a stm32g0 with power _plus_ data capability by 2020 apparently
2019-04-16T19:27:16  * karlp shrugs, not doing anything with usbc anyway
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2019-04-16T19:33:44 < icek> i can program advanced application for arm cortex-m7 or cortex-a9 without use keil ide only by gnu toolchain?
2019-04-16T19:35:56 < specing> icek: sure, do you think GNU+Linux was made in keil ide?
2019-04-16T19:37:34 < mawk> icek: https://developer.arm.com/tools-and-software/open-source-software/developer-tools/gnu-toolchain/gnu-rm/downloads
2019-04-16T19:37:37 < mawk> for cortex M or R
2019-04-16T19:37:52 < mawk> and for cortex A: https://developer.arm.com/tools-and-software/open-source-software/developer-tools/gnu-toolchain/gnu-a/downloads
2019-04-16T19:38:19 < icek> specing: no, i think this is the best answer. thanks
2019-04-16T19:42:59 < icek> $arm-none-eabi-gcc -v output--> gcc version 5.4.1 20160919 (15:5.4.1+svn241155-1) this is my defualt version in debian stretch, should i build from source code lastest version?
2019-04-16T19:43:32 < icek> i think is too old, rigth?
2019-04-16T19:43:45 < mawk> gcc5 is old yes
2019-04-16T19:44:02 < mawk> arm toolchain has gcc8 now I believe
2019-04-16T19:44:05 < mawk> and had gcc7 some months ago
2019-04-16T19:44:15 < specing> icek: it should be enough
2019-04-16T19:44:16 < mawk> but unless you do C++ you're not impacted much
2019-04-16T19:44:20 < mawk> so you can keep it
2019-04-16T19:44:20 < specing> icek: you'll see
2019-04-16T19:44:46 < specing> icek: isn't there a newer debian stable nowadays, though?
2019-04-16T19:45:52 < brdb> could always pull the apt package from sid
2019-04-16T19:47:02 < icek> specing: i use debian 9 last update, i checkd if there a new upgrade before a few second.
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2019-04-16T19:53:05 < specing> stm32f070 is unusually cheap in qty 1-10
2019-04-16T19:53:09 < specing> what gives?
2019-04-16T19:56:58 < specing> apart from CAN and CEC it has about the same specs and package as stm32f042 which is 40% more expensive
2019-04-16T19:57:01 < specing> at Arrow
2019-04-16T19:57:31 < rajkosto> for same density ?
2019-04-16T19:57:37 < karlp> no usb?
2019-04-16T19:57:57 < specing> karlp: it has USB
2019-04-16T19:57:58 < karlp> also, these things prices arenðt' dictated by specs, but volumes
2019-04-16T19:58:08 < karlp> I thought only 072 had usb
2019-04-16T19:58:19 < specing> karlp: me too, but it has USB
2019-04-16T19:58:51 < karlp> so, if you only need 1-10, buy them instead?
2019-04-16T19:58:53 < specing> its a seperate family, the 072 family (0x1, 0x2 and 0x8) reference manual doesen't cover 0x0
2019-04-16T19:59:16 < specing> nah, I already have the 072 manual printed out, don't want to print another one
2019-04-16T19:59:32 < specing> just asking out of curiosity
2019-04-16T20:00:41 < karlp> you printed them?
2019-04-16T20:02:04 < specing> yeah
2019-04-16T20:02:36 < specing> all 1000 pages or sth like that, 2cm of paper - 2 RM pages per A4
2019-04-16T20:12:16 < Steffanx> poor tree
2019-04-16T20:15:47 < Steffanx> it doesnt do xtal less usb either.
2019-04-16T20:16:09 < Steffanx> no touch sense.
2019-04-16T20:16:37 < Steffanx> no dac, no backup stuff, a little higher lower voltage range.
2019-04-16T20:16:45 < Steffanx> there you have your 40% :P
2019-04-16T20:23:11 < Thorn> is this mains voltage layout safe without isolation slots? https://i.imgur.com/3mgu0km.png
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2019-04-16T20:26:46 < specing> Steffanx: trees are renewable
2019-04-16T20:26:52 < karlp> what installation category? what working voltage?
2019-04-16T20:27:05 < specing> Steffanx: looks like an older series
2019-04-16T20:27:28 < karlp> what are one and two connected together for?
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2019-04-16T20:30:55 < Thorn> 220-230VAC, 1-2 connected purely for convenience, to avoid having to put 2 wires into 1 terminal
2019-04-16T20:31:55 < karlp> what's u6?
2019-04-16T20:32:23 < karlp> what's the spacing anyway? what certs are you trying to get?
2019-04-16T20:32:30 < Thorn> MOC3063
2019-04-16T20:32:44 < Thorn> I'm aiming for 2.5mm
2019-04-16T20:34:01 < Thorn> but it should be 4-5mm in most places
2019-04-16T20:34:46 < karlp> doesn't matter if it's most.
2019-04-16T20:34:48 < Thorn> wall mounted device in an enclosure, plastic buttons & knob for the user
2019-04-16T20:35:08 < karlp> is this discrete buck shit?
2019-04-16T20:35:51 < karlp> are you using the output of the optocoupler as your supply?
2019-04-16T20:35:57 < Thorn> it's an SSR made from a moc3063 and bta208s
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2019-04-16T20:36:50 < Thorn> the load is a contactor with a 220V coil
2019-04-16T20:38:01  * karlp shrugs if you want certs you need to look at your installation category and then whether you can convince people that single insulation is enough, with secondary coming from the installation or not.
2019-04-16T20:38:44 < Thorn> not aiming at certification at this time, just need to make sure the prototype is not dangerous to use
2019-04-16T20:39:42 < catphish> morning
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2019-04-16T20:42:50 < karlp> 3mm is single isolation on category III, which is my cabinet mounted shihts.
2019-04-16T20:43:10 < karlp> cat II is only 2 I think, so should be fine.
2019-04-16T20:43:23 < karlp> if you're not certifying, I think even just thinking about it means you've porobably done your job well :)
2019-04-16T20:43:34 < Thorn> I found one place where I had 1.6mm, increased it
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2019-04-16T20:45:55 < Thorn> ok I'm going to add an altium rule for this net class to make sure the clearance is 3+mm
2019-04-16T20:48:08 < karlp> what are r18 anc c19? big 1W resistor or somethign? and a film cap?
2019-04-16T20:48:12 < rajkosto> would adding those little spark plugs help ?
2019-04-16T20:48:13 < rajkosto> > <
2019-04-16T20:49:01 < Thorn> yes, it's a snubber (because the load is inductive)
2019-04-16T20:49:21 < rajkosto> most AC inputs ive seen have a fuse, a box cap, and a choke before letting it get through
2019-04-16T20:49:41 < karlp> the bta208s says, "This "series B" triac will commutate the full rated RMS current
2019-04-16T20:49:43 < karlp> at the maximum rated junction temperature without the aid of a snubber"
2019-04-16T20:50:08 < karlp> rajkosto: this is ac output.
2019-04-16T20:50:15 < karlp> or ac control more to the point
2019-04-16T20:50:44 < Thorn> the ac circuit will be powered through a breaker
2019-04-16T20:50:56 < Thorn> dedicated one
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2019-04-16T20:58:48 < Thorn> karlp: I'm not sure about this particular triac but I had an SSR fail to release the same / similar contactor, so I guess better safe than sorry
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2019-04-16T20:59:01 < Thorn> (the snubber cured it)
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2019-04-16T21:13:51 < Thorn> I made a 4mm clearance rule between all power nets and gnd and got it to pass
2019-04-16T21:13:58 < Thorn> thanks for the advice
2019-04-16T21:14:35 < rajkosto> btw you are fine for 1mm per 100V basically, you dont have to worry that much, 4mm is tons
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2019-04-16T21:15:36 < Thorn> good, so the user should live long enough to pay me
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2019-04-16T21:18:24 < rajkosto> well that depends on how much exposed metal you have @ high voltage
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2019-04-16T21:36:43 < qyx> jpa-: re singing caps, I found some NbO caps promising fire-free failure mode https://www.tme.eu/Document/1e696b8bb4d7e2d10608acbba59cdf43/nos.pdf
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2019-04-16T21:39:20 < qyx> nearly 1A of ripple current rated for 100uF/6V3
2019-04-16T21:41:08 < aandrew> wow that's a lot of ripple current
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2019-04-16T22:18:14 < kakimir> ethernet over bash
2019-04-16T22:18:40 < kakimir> over serial
2019-04-16T22:29:49 < mawk> use ppp for this kakimir 
2019-04-16T22:29:55 < mawk> but not ethernet it's tun
2019-04-16T22:29:58 < mawk> l3
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2019-04-16T22:41:20 < kakimir> I need.. I forgot
2019-04-16T22:41:24 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-16T22:42:00 < kakimir> introduce neural networks to small mcu applications to tune parameters
2019-04-16T22:44:04 < Steffanx> cubeAI.
2019-04-16T22:44:52 < BrainDamage> just use a loop to find an optimal parameter and call it machine learning
2019-04-16T22:45:14 < kakimir> well maybe
2019-04-16T22:45:23 < kakimir> it can take a few days
2019-04-16T22:46:14 < kakimir> hey
2019-04-16T22:46:21 < kakimir> I could log data
2019-04-16T22:46:39 < kakimir> then modulerize the controller part
2019-04-16T22:46:49 < kakimir> butt it in VS
2019-04-16T22:46:58 < kakimir> bruteforce the shit out of it
2019-04-16T22:47:21 < ub|k> is there a way I can make the DMA controller send every byte twice?
2019-04-16T22:47:42 < kakimir> I don't know but I'm interested to learn why
2019-04-16T22:48:01 < ub|k> actually, it was more like, send every two bytes twice
2019-04-16T22:48:34 < ub|k> basically, I have a signal I want to send to a 2-channel DAC
2019-04-16T22:48:47 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-16T22:48:48 < ub|k> and the signal is mono
2019-04-16T22:49:20 < kakimir> I have never played with DMA but maybe use 2 DMA channels
2019-04-16T22:49:26 < kakimir> and sync them somehow
2019-04-16T22:49:40 < ub|k> can that even be done?
2019-04-16T22:50:36 < kakimir> sounds like a use case for dma
2019-04-16T22:50:46 < kakimir> can you make something else to sync it?
2019-04-16T22:51:10 < ub|k> what do you mean?
2019-04-16T22:51:31 < kakimir> dac or something
2019-04-16T22:52:05 < qyx> uh oh
2019-04-16T22:52:15 < qyx> simply split the signal into two electrically? :X
2019-04-16T22:52:33 < kakimir> hmm also an option
2019-04-16T22:52:41 < ub|k> what?
2019-04-16T22:53:08 < ub|k> well, it's a dev board, I cannot just do that, unfortunately :/
2019-04-16T22:53:12 < qyx> data is mono, convert it with single dac as mono and then route the outout ~somehow to both outputs
2019-04-16T22:53:25 < kakimir> hmm muxin
2019-04-16T22:53:39 < ub|k> i would happily use only one dac channel
2019-04-16T22:53:44 < ub|k> but it seems like I can't
2019-04-16T22:53:55 < ub|k> I have to always send both channels even if I want mono
2019-04-16T22:54:04 < BrainDamage> can't you solder a bridge wire?
2019-04-16T22:55:18 < qyx> also isn't there an option in the DAC to do mono?
2019-04-16T22:55:21 < qyx> is it stm32 DAC?
2019-04-16T22:55:23 < ub|k> problably, even though it's tiny SMD
2019-04-16T22:55:34 < ub|k> qyx: it's this one: https://www.mouser.com/ds/2/76/CS43L22_F2-1142121.pdf
2019-04-16T22:55:42 < qyx> if it is configurable with I2C, there may be such option
2019-04-16T22:55:58 < ub|k> qyx: from what I understood I can have mono by mirroring one of the channels
2019-04-16T22:56:04 < ub|k> but i still have to send both channels :|
2019-04-16T22:56:08 < ub|k> which is... inefficient
2019-04-16T22:56:36 < ub|k> because i have to space every sample of 16 empty bits
2019-04-16T22:56:43 < qyx> ub|k: 4.1.5
2019-04-16T22:56:44 < qyx> Fixed Function DSP Engine
2019-04-16T22:56:54 < qyx> Independent vol-
2019-04-16T22:56:55 < qyx> ume control, left/right channel swaps, mono mixes
2019-04-16T22:56:59 < qyx> I would look there
2019-04-16T22:57:06 < ub|k> qyx: yes, that's what I mean
2019-04-16T22:57:15 < ub|k> i still have to send both channels
2019-04-16T22:57:36 < qyx> cannot you configure SAI or what to single channel only?
2019-04-16T22:57:38 < qyx> or I2S
2019-04-16T22:57:54 < qyx> oh you have to send two channels
2019-04-16T22:57:55 < qyx> idk then
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2019-04-16T23:02:34 < BrainDamage> ub|k: well, you can send a string of 0s for the 2nd channel and enable PCM channel swap to mix
2019-04-16T23:03:06 < BrainDamage> so always send [leftchannel,0]
2019-04-16T23:03:23 < ub|k> BrainDamage: yeah, sure, I know that
2019-04-16T23:03:38 < ub|k> the problem is that in order to send that I need to have that many zeros in memory
2019-04-16T23:03:50 < ub|k> so, I'll use twice the memory I would use otherwise
2019-04-16T23:03:55 < ub|k> which will be always at zero
2019-04-16T23:04:21 < rajkosto> lyf hack, DMA each byte to a 2 byte location that is all zeroes then dma that 2 byte location to the periph
2019-04-16T23:04:30 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGYaxYaxD_M musics
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--- Day changed Wed Apr 17 2019
2019-04-17T00:02:16 < Thorn> 👍 https://i.imgur.com/bxhM9AO.png
2019-04-17T00:05:42 < rajkosto> why is R connected to gnd
2019-04-17T00:08:18 < catphish> just about done designing my DSP https://nutty.tk/audio.pdf - just needs a better STM32 with a FPU
2019-04-17T00:18:41 < Steffanx> Because the datasheet told him so, rajkosto
2019-04-17T00:19:46 < Steffanx> So drop some F3 or F4 in there catphish
2019-04-17T00:19:52 < karlp> catphish: is that to run on a 9v battery?
2019-04-17T00:21:00 < catphish> karlp: not sure, probably a wall power supply, if that matters, which now that i type it, makes me realise i've not put any decoupling on that supply
2019-04-17T00:22:01 < karlp> I was going to say, get jacks with switches in them, so you can do lower power when the output is not connected,
2019-04-17T00:22:17 < karlp> and kill the 78l33, that thing is in archaic furnace of wasted power.
2019-04-17T00:22:31 < karlp> it's like 5-6m _milli_amps of Iq
2019-04-17T00:23:14 < catphish> karlp: that makes sense, ill probably go mains powered though, but that does mean i need to smooth that input before feeding it to the amplifiers!
2019-04-17T00:23:26 < karlp> zypsnips/sot23-5.ldos.dongs should have something for you that's cheaper and better in every way.
2019-04-17T00:23:34 < karlp> aren't audio people haters on mains?
2019-04-17T00:23:44 < karlp> you want to have a wallwart for every single pedal?
2019-04-17T00:23:59 < karlp> battery is ok, just don't burn power :)
2019-04-17T00:24:01 < catphish> karlp: people use splitters
2019-04-17T00:24:20 < catphish> wallwart with cat'o'9'tails
2019-04-17T00:24:47 < catphish> but i can certainly look at better linregs
2019-04-17T00:26:18 < catphish> best consult the cubemx for a device with DAC, ADC and FPU :)
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2019-04-17T00:26:54 < karlp> f3/f4/f7/l4
2019-04-17T00:27:14 < catphish> i really like the l4 personally, so will check those first
2019-04-17T00:29:05 < catphish> l431cbt
2019-04-17T00:34:21 < Steffanx> Whokay
2019-04-17T00:34:29 < Steffanx> Gonna low power?
2019-04-17T00:36:07 < catphish> i'm not sure really
2019-04-17T00:36:19 < catphish> but no, that's not really important
2019-04-17T00:36:25 < Steffanx> L431 is L4+?
2019-04-17T00:36:27 < catphish> i just have a thing for the l4
2019-04-17T00:36:55 < Steffanx> Better L5 then
2019-04-17T00:37:12 < catphish> STM32L431CB is just l4 i think
2019-04-17T00:37:17 < qyx> L431 is not L4+
2019-04-17T00:37:24 < Steffanx> Ok
2019-04-17T00:37:29 < catphish> maybe i should look at f4
2019-04-17T00:37:33 < qyx> L4+ have funny names
2019-04-17T00:37:37 < catphish> my experience is just with l4
2019-04-17T00:37:41 < qyx> L4R5 for example
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2019-04-17T00:38:06 < qyx> F4 is faster and has older peripherals
2019-04-17T00:38:12 < catphish> makes sense
2019-04-17T00:38:25 < qyx> L4 is newer and more targeted for low power
2019-04-17T00:38:34 < catphish> as long as it has an ADC, DAC, and FPU, it doesn't matter
2019-04-17T00:38:57 < catphish> i think the analog part of my design is where i'll be having trouble
2019-04-17T00:38:58 < qyx> y u no I2S codec?
2019-04-17T00:39:44 < catphish> qyx: not decided yet, considering PCM3060
2019-04-17T00:39:44 < qyx> with a manufacturer recommended audio part of the schematic
2019-04-17T00:40:58 < catphish> qyx: that's actually really quite a good idea
2019-04-17T00:42:41 < qyx> and then move on to ub|k level problems with feeding mono data to the codec 
2019-04-17T00:43:34 < bitmask> Steffanx no go :(
2019-04-17T00:43:45 < bitmask> they went with someone else, bastards
2019-04-17T00:44:26 < Steffanx> awh :(
2019-04-17T00:44:33 < bitmask> just gonna have to keep trying
2019-04-17T00:45:39 < Steffanx> ofcourse, one day they will hire a bitmask
2019-04-17T00:45:49 < bitmask> heh
2019-04-17T00:48:03 < karlp> better luck next time dude
2019-04-17T01:02:08 < Thorn> jlcpcb seems to set prices randomly. 1st board $5, 2nd one $2, deleted 1st one and uploaded again -> $4
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2019-04-17T01:14:29 < jadew`> Thorn, they all seem to use the same crappy quoting system
2019-04-17T01:14:51 < jadew`> also, be careful not to get bitten in the ass by the 5 PCB "offer" at the same price as 10
2019-04-17T01:14:53 < jadew`> (I did)
2019-04-17T01:14:59 < Thorn> it finally learned to determine board size from gerbers
2019-04-17T01:15:19 < Steffanx> never had issues with that.
2019-04-17T01:15:27 < Thorn> I ordered 5 pcs of each board intentionally
2019-04-17T01:15:36 < Steffanx> jadew`, i usually only need 2, so .. i pick 5
2019-04-17T01:15:41 < jadew`> when they rejected my order and asked me to re-upload the files, I forgot to set 10, like it was in the original order, so now I have 5 boards on the way, instead of 10
2019-04-17T01:15:43 < Steffanx> most of the time only 1
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2019-04-17T01:16:07 < Thorn> (but normally I order 10)
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2019-04-17T01:16:28 < Steffanx> i think 5 is actually cheaper, cheaper shippping (when you pick dhl)
2019-04-17T01:16:40 < jadew`> I got $0 for shipping
2019-04-17T01:16:47 < Steffanx> uh
2019-04-17T01:17:05 < jadew`> my order was > $40, I don't know where the threshold is
2019-04-17T01:17:35 < Thorn> will this fuse be fast enough to protect a mosfet from a short circuit? https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/1811271435_AEM-F1206FA6000V032TM_C310965.pdf
2019-04-17T01:18:13 < Thorn> (also how long is a piece of string)
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2019-04-17T01:25:55 < Thorn> >Payment has been well received for your order
2019-04-17T01:26:20 < jadew`> I bet
2019-04-17T01:26:50 < Thorn> 10/10 Engrish
2019-04-17T01:34:12 < Thorn> so take for example qfn, pitch 0.5mm, pad width 0.3mm. are there manufacturers who will leave 0.2mm solder mask bridges between pads? is it only the cheap ones who don't?
2019-04-17T01:36:49 < jadew`> possibly, I've done 0.2 mm solder mask on some boards and it came out fine
2019-04-17T01:38:09 < jadew`> with the cheap houses I guess it depends on who they outsource it to
2019-04-17T01:43:12 < Thorn> they may also require (or add silently) solder mask expansion > 0, if you have 0.1mm expansion it leaves bridge width = 0
2019-04-17T01:45:40 < rajkosto> Thorn, some expand your soldermask so you should make the expansion in altium minimal like 0.02
2019-04-17T01:45:52 < rajkosto> some take exactly what you specify (jlcpcb seems to)
2019-04-17T01:46:48 < rajkosto> i was still able to solder things on those just fine with no issues though
2019-04-17T01:47:06 < rajkosto> because their alignment is decent
2019-04-17T01:47:09 < jadew`> rajkosto, might not be such a great idea
2019-04-17T01:47:17 < jadew`> otherwise everyone would use 0 solder mask clearance
2019-04-17T01:47:27 < rajkosto> its to offset misalignment
2019-04-17T01:47:36 < jadew`> the problem with very small clearance is that if the solder mask layer is misaligned, you end up with covered pads
2019-04-17T01:47:39 < jadew`> yeah
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2019-04-17T01:48:05 < _unreal_> hello.. is there a DSP channel? 
2019-04-17T01:48:52 < jadew`> all of them, a little bit
2019-04-17T01:50:39 < Thorn> there is/was ##dsp but it's probably dead
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2019-04-17T01:52:30 < _unreal_> ya in it now
2019-04-17T01:52:47 < _unreal_> I have a DSP I'm looking at salvaging I'm just not sure if its a ONE time write or not? dsp56f803bu80
2019-04-17T01:52:57 < _unreal_> I looked it up and its a $25 chip
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2019-04-17T04:38:54 < mawk> when I have a gpio triggering a timer where can I see the value of the gpio ?
2019-04-17T04:38:59 < mawk> it's in alternate mode, can I still read it ?
2019-04-17T04:40:50 < dongs> can still read.
2019-04-17T04:40:57 < mawk> ah good
2019-04-17T04:40:58 < mawk> thanks
2019-04-17T04:41:58 < mawk> I found how to fix cube makefile generation on linux, open it and replace windows style line endings by unix style line endings
2019-04-17T04:42:04 < mawk> and makefile isn't broken anymore when you regenerate
2019-04-17T04:42:13 < mawk> this hints at the fact ST doesn't test much on linux
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2019-04-17T09:41:44 < dongs> hello dongs
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2019-04-17T09:50:35 < rajkosto> but john
2019-04-17T09:50:37 < rajkosto> u r the dongs
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2019-04-17T11:00:25 < dongs> hmm does F042 have any eeprom
2019-04-17T11:00:36 < dongs> on F1 i used last page of flash
2019-04-17T11:00:39 < dongs> but with 32k on F0... hmmm
2019-04-17T11:02:54 < dongs> ok 1k pages
2019-04-17T11:02:56 < dongs> so probly not too terible
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2019-04-17T11:18:46 < Thorn> L0 does, F0 doesn't iirc
2019-04-17T11:20:50 < dongs> yea just noticed
2019-04-17T11:20:55 < dongs> so gonna have to waste 1k of flash
2019-04-17T11:27:01 < zyp> aww
2019-04-17T11:29:14 < rajkosto> do you use a library or do you just write to the page every time
2019-04-17T11:29:47 < dongs> the latter
2019-04-17T11:29:52 < dongs> with some header/footer for crc and shit
2019-04-17T11:30:15 < zyp> shouldn't you use two pages to double buffer it?
2019-04-17T11:30:16 < dongs> i should prolly make some kinda thing where i write newer version to a new block and then increment version or wahtever
2019-04-17T11:30:19 < dongs> no
2019-04-17T11:30:23 < dongs> the data is very small
2019-04-17T11:30:23 < rajkosto> youre like... supposed to not erase the page every time, just keep writing and always use the latest data in the page, then if its full you erase and write from the start
2019-04-17T11:30:25 < dongs> just a few bytes
2019-04-17T11:30:35 < dongs> rajkosto: yeah i did that on 64k-spi flash thing.
2019-04-17T11:30:38 < dongs> i might reuse that code
2019-04-17T11:30:47 < dongs> 64k-page
2019-04-17T11:30:50 < zyp> I do that on workstuff
2019-04-17T11:31:29 < zyp> 16k pages, 8 byte minimum write size
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2019-04-17T11:31:49 < zyp> so I have 8-byte records, 32-bit data and 32-bit metadata
2019-04-17T11:31:50 < dongs> so you erase then write w/offset until its full?
2019-04-17T11:32:24 < rajkosto> you erase only if writing more would overflow
2019-04-17T11:32:51 < rajkosto> unless you are double buffering then you always keep one page erased and one with data then you only write the still-valid data to the new page, then erase the other one
2019-04-17T11:33:49 < zyp> I have two pages, so when one page goes full I copy the newest record for each parameter to the other page, then erase it
2019-04-17T11:34:10 < rajkosto> yeah thats what ST recommends in their "eeprom emulation" pdf
2019-04-17T11:34:13 < zyp> or at least that's how it's intended to work, I haven't written the defrag code yet
2019-04-17T11:35:14 < zyp> I keep a pointer to the last written record, so when doing lookups I start there and iterate backwards until I find a record with the requested parameter number
2019-04-17T11:35:33 < zyp> that way it always finds the last record written
2019-04-17T11:36:40 < rajkosto> you can always flip bits from 1 to 0 without erasing but never the other way around so you can make bitmasks etc
2019-04-17T11:36:47 < rajkosto> if you dont want to search
2019-04-17T11:37:04 < rajkosto> bitmaps*
2019-04-17T11:37:35 < zyp> no, not on my chip
2019-04-17T11:38:39 < rajkosto> it should be NOR flash on all of them ?
2019-04-17T11:39:04 < zyp> yes, but my flash got crc or something
2019-04-17T11:39:24 < zyp> so for every 64 bits there's an 8-bit checksum
2019-04-17T11:40:33 < zyp> I mean, you can still write the data bits from 1 to 0 if you want, but you'll be fucking up the checksum if any bits in it has to change from 0 to 1
2019-04-17T11:40:49 < rajkosto> thats quite a waste of bits
2019-04-17T11:40:59 < zyp> haha
2019-04-17T11:41:50 < zyp> this fucking chip has two cpu cores, executing identical code, just for redundancy :p
2019-04-17T11:42:46 < zyp> http://www.ti.com/product/RM46L852 if you want to have a look at the specs
2019-04-17T11:43:08 < zyp> also, s/CRC/ECC/
2019-04-17T11:43:52 < rajkosto> even NAND has ecc only of 16 bytes per 512 bytes
2019-04-17T11:44:02 < jly> LOCKSTEP
2019-04-17T11:44:03 < rajkosto> 1/8th is a lot
2019-04-17T11:44:38 < zyp> welcome to safety bullshit :)
2019-04-17T11:47:59 < Thorn> has anyone used the NMI and how exactly?
2019-04-17T11:52:13 < zyp> «The RCC Clock Security System (CSS) is linked to the NMI vector.»
2019-04-17T11:54:17 < zyp> so presumably you set RCC_CR.CSSON, and then you get a NMI if HSE fails
2019-04-17T11:54:51 < zyp> apart from that I don't think there's a way to «use» NMI
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2019-04-17T12:15:34 < invzim> things are getting tiiight
2019-04-17T12:15:46 < invzim> how far away from edge of pcb should you stay?
2019-04-17T12:20:11 < rajkosto> i wasnt very far and it still printed fine 
2019-04-17T12:20:32 < invzim> he, altium actually has a nice rule for it that seems to be disable by default
2019-04-17T12:20:35 < rajkosto> but the danger there is that the router bit will be a little off and cut off your edge traces
2019-04-17T12:20:38  * invzim tries 0.5mm
2019-04-17T12:20:45 < rajkosto> its not disabled by default 
2019-04-17T12:21:07 < rajkosto> if you put the board outline on the keepout layer it does the default clearance rule to it
2019-04-17T12:21:16 < invzim> "board outline clearance" was empty in this project at least
2019-04-17T12:21:30 < ub|k> what is the difference between an "audio codec" like the PCM3060 and a DAC like the DAC8565?
2019-04-17T12:21:42 < ub|k> I guess the audio codec does more stuff than a DAC
2019-04-17T12:21:52 < ub|k> but then why is the 8565 so expensive in comparison?
2019-04-17T12:21:54 < rajkosto> i had 0.125mm distance from non-gnd trace to  board edge
2019-04-17T12:23:13 < invzim> allright, I should be pretty safe then
2019-04-17T12:23:16 < rajkosto> also if you have more than double sided board (4 layer) the inner layers may get shorted if you dont pull them away from the edges
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2019-04-17T12:24:01 < invzim> yeah, this was supposed to be a 'ghetto' board 2 layer board, but additional features etc is transforming it to something else :)
2019-04-17T12:25:12 < invzim> need a 2 gate xor, couldn't find anything inbetween soic and SM-8/0.5mm
2019-04-17T12:25:51 < invzim> no wait, that's .65mm
2019-04-17T12:27:02 < qyx> no bga/wlcsp?
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2019-04-17T12:27:39 < invzim> I'm not that desperate yet :)
2019-04-17T12:27:52 < qyx> what are you innovating with xor gates?
2019-04-17T12:28:13 < qyx> it have to be a very peculiar task
2019-04-17T12:28:17 < invzim> I only copy :)  h/v sync to c-sync combiner
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2019-04-17T12:28:32 < invzim> actually xnor, but can't find any xnor pieces
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2019-04-17T12:34:50 < invzim> waaait a minute, SN74LVC1G57 \o/
2019-04-17T12:36:46 < invzim> I bet that IC is responsible for a lot of respins caused by using the wrong pins :)
2019-04-17T12:45:57 < dongs> zyp in my spi flash shit i have an 'index' thing so when i scan records i pick the one wiht highest index as latest data.
2019-04-17T12:46:20 < dongs> and i assume shit after it is still blank
2019-04-17T12:46:55 < dongs> on startup i find highest record, increment it, and then wehn writing, it goes into next free spot
2019-04-17T12:49:35 < qyx> is this legit? https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/esd-safe-clean-room-treatments-lotions-dispensers/1113165/
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2019-04-17T13:24:35 < invzim> have someone made a handy webpage that lists all the weirdo package namings vendors use?
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2019-04-17T13:37:22 < invzim> SOT23-6 (SOT26, SC59-6, SC74, TSOP-6, MO-178AB, SMT6, SM6, Mini6, SOT457) - smells like job-security
2019-04-17T13:47:12 < Steffanx> Pass
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2019-04-17T14:16:36 < karlp> nxp is the worst at this
2019-04-17T14:16:42 < karlp> making up names for everything again
2019-04-17T14:19:31 < qyx> s-power-so8-ML-5-innovative-pak
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2019-04-17T14:44:47 < karlp> groovy: https://www.ship.ie/embedded-components/
2019-04-17T14:51:56 < qyx> making unserviceable pcbs
2019-04-17T14:55:55 < karlp> you bet
2019-04-17T14:56:10 < karlp> was just looking at pcb planar transformers
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2019-04-17T15:42:25 < jadew`> has anyone here partnered up with someone, the deal being "you do all the development, the other guy does the selling"?
2019-04-17T15:42:35 < jadew`> is this type of deal worth it?
2019-04-17T15:43:45 < mitrax> depends
2019-04-17T15:43:58 < jadew`> the appealing part is that you can focus on other stuff once it's done
2019-04-17T15:44:08 < jadew`> but... what if the other guy does that too?
2019-04-17T15:44:15 < jadew`> and it turns out to be profitable?
2019-04-17T15:44:30 < jadew`> you end up having to work on that thing and still splitting the profits
2019-04-17T15:45:08 < mitrax> i tend to be wary of people doing exclusively sales stuff
2019-04-17T15:45:16 < jadew`> I get this type of offers quite often (got one just now) and I still haven't worked out if it's a good idea or not
2019-04-17T15:45:32 < jadew`> well, there's a good part to that too
2019-04-17T15:45:38 < jadew`> they're dependent on you
2019-04-17T15:45:53 < jadew`> if they had the same know-how you do, they could move away from you easily
2019-04-17T15:45:58 < jadew`> and they'd have all the customer base
2019-04-17T15:46:01 < jadew`> because they did all the selling
2019-04-17T15:46:56 < jadew`> so there are upsides and downsides, this being a major one
2019-04-17T15:47:00 < dongs> sup dongs
2019-04-17T15:47:04 < jadew`> hey
2019-04-17T15:48:29 < mitrax> jadew: you just need to keep in mind that they're usually people with a completely different mindset than yours
2019-04-17T15:48:52 < mitrax> jadew: and that if they can ass rape in some way to make more money they will
2019-04-17T15:49:09 < jadew`> mitrax, yeah, I'm sure
2019-04-17T15:50:45 < jadew`> on the other hand, if you don't rely on sales people for some products, you get 0 money
2019-04-17T15:50:53 < dongs> hmm
2019-04-17T16:02:20 <@englishman> the good part about salesmen is once the sales are done you can fire them and keep the clients
2019-04-17T16:04:14 < c10ud> while I run the calculations......do you think it would be possible to do very simple processing of a ~50MB/s stream of data (through a parallel GPIO bus or so) with some mid-end stm32?
2019-04-17T16:05:37 < jadew`> englishman, that's a good point, in partnership you couldn't do that
2019-04-17T16:07:08 < jadew`> I wouldn't do this anyway
2019-04-17T16:07:29 < jadew`> I just want to avoid getting screwed over
2019-04-17T16:07:44 < kakimir> I reflow my board and something weird happend
2019-04-17T16:07:57 < kakimir> big pads go shit
2019-04-17T16:08:01 < jadew`> popcorn came out?
2019-04-17T16:08:31 < kakimir> some sort of depletion
2019-04-17T16:08:49 < kakimir> copper color came visible to it's outer edges
2019-04-17T16:09:01 < kakimir> not sure if copper
2019-04-17T16:09:07 < kakimir> hard to solder them now
2019-04-17T16:12:35 < kakimir> englishman: ?
2019-04-17T16:15:27 < kakimir> maybe it's better order all pads pasted
2019-04-17T16:18:00 < Cracki> c10ud, how much per byte/per word? this is tight
2019-04-17T16:18:36 < c10ud> 1 byte, I was thinking timer driven dma that reads gpios
2019-04-17T16:18:43 < Cracki> yeah sure but then?
2019-04-17T16:18:48 < c10ud> then processing done at half and full
2019-04-17T16:18:54 < Cracki> assuming 200 mhz clock, you get 4 cycles pe rbyte
2019-04-17T16:20:00 < Cracki> look at the beaglebone logic analyzer project. they run very tightly timed code too
2019-04-17T16:20:15 < Cracki> some acrobatics they had to do
2019-04-17T16:20:43 < c10ud> since each packet should be around 200 bytes I was counting of the time that passes between each dma interrupt to do processing
2019-04-17T16:20:55 < c10ud> which is around 4us
2019-04-17T16:21:40 < c10ud> but that's less than 1k instructions at 200mhz
2019-04-17T16:21:54 < c10ud> providing no delay
2019-04-17T16:21:58 < c10ud> in fetch etc.
2019-04-17T16:23:58 < c10ud> well theoretically I don't need to handle the whole stream, so I could just turn it on, fetch some data, stop it and process
2019-04-17T16:24:04 < c10ud> mmm
2019-04-17T17:01:51 < Thorn> is 4 layers enough for a so-dimm arm module (such as rpi compute module) baseboard?
2019-04-17T17:02:48 < karlp> 2 should be fine, they took care of the multilayer stuff.
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2019-04-17T17:05:27 < Thorn> maybe the pinout is horrible and you'll need to cross all the traces to connect them to an ethernet phy or something
2019-04-17T17:06:05 < dongs> Thorn, i've done RPI shit on 2L just fine
2019-04-17T17:06:07 < dongs> the CM
2019-04-17T17:06:34 < dongs> thorn, rpi ethernet is taht fucking retarded usb>ethernet chip
2019-04-17T17:06:42 < dongs> and its not on the cm
2019-04-17T17:06:53 < Thorn> even on cm 3+?
2019-04-17T17:08:55 < Thorn> is this the right kind of connector https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Others_FOXCONN-AS0A621-H2R6-7H_C225721.html
2019-04-17T17:11:43 < Mangy_Dog> that is a side loading dim
2019-04-17T17:13:27 < karlp> heh, mouser sends an email "confirm you still want emails" click the link, confirm.
2019-04-17T17:13:37 < karlp> get another email, "confirm you want to be subscribed"
2019-04-17T17:18:27 < Thorn> Mangy_Dog: that's essentially what they seem to be using on their dev kit? https://www.raspberrypi.org/app/uploads/2019/01/CM303-500x342.jpg
2019-04-17T17:18:50 < dongs> thorn yes
2019-04-17T17:19:10 < dongs> (not even on cm3)
2019-04-17T17:19:13 < dongs> looking at connector
2019-04-17T17:19:17 < dongs> its DDR3 reverse or wahtever.
2019-04-17T17:19:48 < Thorn> which one do I need
2019-04-17T17:20:28 < dongs> checked ds, that one is fine
2019-04-17T17:20:30 < dongs> the foxconn
2019-04-17T17:20:45 < Thorn> ok thanks
2019-04-17T17:21:21 < dongs> man im paying $1.2 @ 1k for that shit
2019-04-17T17:21:25 < dongs> should fire chinagirl
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2019-04-17T17:31:16 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fu3anMtDS8 fuuuck
2019-04-17T17:37:18 < Thorn> >Raspberry Pi Compute Module 3 Contains the guts of a Raspberry Pi 3
2019-04-17T17:40:18 < dongs> yes, without USB hub
2019-04-17T17:40:23 < dongs> it only has a single USB link on it
2019-04-17T17:40:26 < dongs> the OTG one
2019-04-17T17:40:31 < dongs> which can go to the 4port hub/ethernet trash
2019-04-17T17:40:36 < dongs> LAN9512 or whaever
2019-04-17T17:40:39 < dongs> 9514
2019-04-17T17:40:51 < dongs> no wireless either
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2019-04-17T18:27:57 < karlp> piz0w is "better" than cm, but not as "manufacturing friendly" because of the through holes instead of dimm form
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2019-04-17T19:13:56 < qyx> what is piz0w?
2019-04-17T19:14:01 < qyx> pi zero w?
2019-04-17T19:14:38 < karlp> yar
2019-04-17T19:15:11 < karlp> it's also shitter of course with the hdmi on board and crap
2019-04-17T19:15:37 < qyx> somewhat I like those sama5d27 modules more
2019-04-17T19:17:03 < qyx> if there was a cheap nonchina ar9331 or mt8766 or whatever is the exact number
2019-04-17T19:17:27 < qyx> dragino he was cool but became unobtainable in short time
2019-04-17T19:18:01 < qyx> there are some hilink modules with the mt, but I fear the same happens to them soon
2019-04-17T19:18:57 < qyx> I winder where did the numerous sub-10USD linux boards go
2019-04-17T19:21:49 < qyx> also why nobody want to do a cortex-a in qfn/tqfp with few megs of dram on-chip
2019-04-17T19:24:36 < bitmask> does it really matter if an unused soldering iron tip is rusted?
2019-04-17T19:25:09 <@englishman> so it can be eol'd a week before your project goes into prod
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2019-04-17T19:28:38 -!- gsi__ is now known as gsi_
2019-04-17T19:29:01 <@englishman> https://www.golem.de/news/subdomain-takeover-microsoft-loses-control-over-windows-tiles-1904-140717.html
2019-04-17T19:32:52 < bitmask> never put a new tip on this soldering iron, they are cheap tips but its so nice having something new :/
2019-04-17T19:36:33 < Steffanx> Heh lol, englishman 
2019-04-17T19:36:56 < jpa-> bitmask: rusted? iron is not a very good material for tips :P
2019-04-17T19:37:37 <@englishman> wtf is this msp430 compiler doing
2019-04-17T19:37:52 < bitmask> what are tips usually made of? stainless steel or something?
2019-04-17T19:38:08 < jpa-> better ones are copper or plated copper
2019-04-17T19:38:30 <@englishman> all I want to do is some bitwise operations but the asm has absolutely nothing to do with  my shifts and ands
2019-04-17T19:38:43 < bitmask> I see, well I didnt expect copper for the price I paid
2019-04-17T19:39:14 < bitmask> so I guess its some kind of regular steel
2019-04-17T19:39:33 < jpa-> hmm yeah, wikipedia says that iron, steel and iron-plated copper tips are also relatively common
2019-04-17T19:40:38 < bitmask> the description actually says its iron plated copper
2019-04-17T19:40:45 < bitmask> didnt realize that
2019-04-17T19:41:09 < jpa-> i guess that's what many of my tips are also, but i've never managed to make them rust
2019-04-17T19:41:30 < bitmask> 3 of the 4 are rust free, not sure what happened to this one
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2019-04-17T19:43:15 < bitmask> also got some 29% VLT one way mirror film, I'm curious to see how well it works for making an infinity mirror
2019-04-17T19:43:23 < bitmask> 20%*
2019-04-17T19:43:54 < Steffanx> Just use some WD40 :)
2019-04-17T19:44:00 < bitmask> ?
2019-04-17T19:44:05 < bitmask> o0hhh
2019-04-17T19:44:08 < bitmask> yea
2019-04-17T19:44:08 < bitmask> heh
2019-04-17T19:45:51 < bitmask> I'm taking this job loss better than I thought I would, I'm ready to hit the applications hard now
2019-04-17T19:51:23 < kakimir> Warn : Only resetting the Cortex-M core, use a reset-init event handler to reset any peripherals or configure hardware srst support.                                                                                  Error: timed out while waiting for target halted 
2019-04-17T19:51:31 < kakimir> new error
2019-04-17T19:51:33 < kakimir> blank chip
2019-04-17T19:52:10 < kakimir> any recommendations?
2019-04-17T19:52:30 < kakimir> I should get a real debugger soon
2019-04-17T19:52:43 <@englishman> god damn I hate msp430 a billion cycles just to multiply two shorts wtf
2019-04-17T19:53:03 < kakimir> :]
2019-04-17T19:53:24 <@englishman> or use one of 5 different hardware multipliers and disable interrupts
2019-04-17T19:53:37 < kakimir> have you made a mistake englishman?
2019-04-17T19:53:48 <@englishman> possibly but I'm not sure what it is
2019-04-17T19:53:55 < kakimir> wrong chip
2019-04-17T19:53:57 < kakimir> ?
2019-04-17T19:53:57 <@englishman> as I'm pretty unfamiliar with msp430 asm
2019-04-17T19:54:20 <@englishman> but I'm just shifting and anding so wtf
2019-04-17T19:54:46 <@englishman> -o0 doesn't disable optimization either
2019-04-17T19:54:55 <@englishman> there are some left behind
2019-04-17T19:55:03 < kakimir> your toolset sucks?
2019-04-17T19:55:13 <@englishman> it's code composter
2019-04-17T19:55:20 <@englishman> everything about msp430 sucks
2019-04-17T19:55:25 <@englishman> 1MHz!!!
2019-04-17T19:55:35 <@englishman> can you believe this shit
2019-04-17T19:56:13 < qyx> isnt the sole purpose of a MCU to do ~some computations?
2019-04-17T19:58:07 < Steffanx> Code composer studio <3
2019-04-17T20:00:38 < kakimir> what is purpose of sleep commands in openocd?
2019-04-17T20:01:28 < jpa-> kakimir: scripting?
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2019-04-17T20:01:41 < kakimir> liek: reset sleep 500 halt
2019-04-17T20:02:33 < kakimir> apparently my soft reset doesn't works with blank chip
2019-04-17T20:04:07 < jpa-> what difference do you expect a reset to do on blank chip?
2019-04-17T20:04:29 < kakimir> I don't know if it's that or shitty connection
2019-04-17T20:04:36 < kakimir> running at 20khz
2019-04-17T20:04:41 < kakimir> seems to be only thing working
2019-04-17T20:04:44 < kakimir> no less, no more
2019-04-17T20:05:11 < kakimir> hometime>
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2019-04-17T20:23:41 < kakimir> best plug and play rtc for raspi?
2019-04-17T20:24:13 < PaulFertser> kakimir: why are you not using sysresetreq? What chip is that and where is config file for it from?
2019-04-17T20:24:26 < kakimir> xmc1100
2019-04-17T20:24:42 < kakimir> PaulFertser: latest openocd uses sysresetreq
2019-04-17T20:24:50 < kakimir> for the chip
2019-04-17T20:24:58 < kakimir> this one uses this thing
2019-04-17T20:25:09 < kakimir> this one gets me debug session
2019-04-17T20:25:15 < kakimir> latest doesn't
2019-04-17T20:25:39 < PaulFertser> kakimir: what happens with sysresetreq?
2019-04-17T20:25:59 < kakimir> I don't remember I was storming to get it working any way possible
2019-04-17T20:26:53 < kakimir> maybe not halted.. it seems to be reoccurring theme
2019-04-17T20:29:25 < kakimir> what is reset-init event?
2019-04-17T20:32:23 < kakimir> now as I have changed bootmodeindex to SWD0 I have to live by it
2019-04-17T20:32:37 < kakimir> should have probs flashed first with memtool
2019-04-17T20:33:17 < kakimir> I did way too perfect solder job on the chip to be changed
2019-04-17T20:36:51 < kakimir> hmm should probs try to not program it with openocd
2019-04-17T20:37:01 < kakimir> but instead try to get debug session going
2019-04-17T20:41:09 < kakimir> but that resulted in chip not being flashed
2019-04-17T20:42:40 < PaulFertser> kakimir: are you sure the target chip doesn't support sysresetreq method of reset? Are you sure you can't connect a physical reset line to it?
2019-04-17T20:43:29 < kakimir> well that is what I'm sure about
2019-04-17T20:43:34 < kakimir> there is no physical reset pin
2019-04-17T20:43:45 < kakimir> there is not even alternative function for a pin to be reset
2019-04-17T20:44:13 < kakimir> if you want like some kind of reset pin it would require interrupt for gpio and that to call master reset
2019-04-17T20:44:50 < PaulFertser> kakimir: ok, but why do not you want to use sysresetreq then?
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2019-04-17T20:47:20 < kakimir> how to even change that?
2019-04-17T20:47:45 < kakimir> other than launching latest version of openocd
2019-04-17T20:47:55 < kakimir> same command - different reset
2019-04-17T20:49:13 < kakimir> I use the config scripts for xmc1100 as they are provided
2019-04-17T20:50:03 < kakimir> I looked at them and I didn't notice any difference
2019-04-17T20:52:03 < kakimir> I can implement POR reset for the chip
2019-04-17T20:52:16 < kakimir> one fet
2019-04-17T20:52:30 < kakimir> +5V - fet - GND
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2019-04-17T20:55:01 < kakimir> does halting require reset?
2019-04-17T20:55:17 < mawk> what's NOE for usb
2019-04-17T20:55:29 < kakimir> is reset there only because you don't want interrupts to be activated?
2019-04-17T20:55:48 < mawk> google is mute
2019-04-17T20:56:20 < kakimir> mawk: you should probs describe context
2019-04-17T20:57:08 < mawk> there's not much just a box "activate NOE" in cubemx in the usb peripheral
2019-04-17T20:57:33 < kakimir> so stm32
2019-04-17T20:57:38 < mawk> but apparently it means !output_enable, it's an output signal for usb being enabled
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2019-04-17T20:57:43 < mawk> yes
2019-04-17T20:57:56 < kakimir> compare results
2019-04-17T20:58:09 < mawk> Khouloud GARSI (ST Employee) said it will be added to reference manual
2019-04-17T20:58:09 < kakimir> then find registers for RM
2019-04-17T20:58:28 < kakimir> oh.. undocumented goodies?
2019-04-17T20:59:24 < mawk> yeah apparently https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009XkaCOSAZ/otg-on-l476-what-is-otgfsnoe
2019-04-17T20:59:30 < mawk> it doesn't sound terribly useful
2019-04-17T20:59:50 < kakimir> it's nothing important
2019-04-17T20:59:52 < kakimir> carry on
2019-04-17T21:00:56 < kakimir> probs if you are looking for feature then you would maybe try it
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2019-04-17T21:10:01 < kakimir> should I do programmin like this -c "init; reset halt; program project.elf verify reset exit"
2019-04-17T21:10:59 < kakimir> init; reset halt; part did the trick with 0.10.0-5
2019-04-17T21:11:11 < kakimir> and adapter_khz 20
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2019-04-17T21:12:40 < kakimir> why does target need to be halted for GDB session?
2019-04-17T21:13:15 < kakimir> isn't there a thing where you have running target you start to debug on fly or something
2019-04-17T21:13:19 < mawk> so that you can set your breakpoints first no ?
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2019-04-17T21:13:28 < mawk> well you can do that as far as I know
2019-04-17T21:13:28 < kakimir> hmm
2019-04-17T21:13:36 < mawk> you just ^C in gcc to halt it or something
2019-04-17T21:13:41 < mawk> but it has to be halted to add breakpoints
2019-04-17T21:13:48 < kakimir> you can has brkp
2019-04-17T21:14:44 < kakimir> my question is why server cares about halting the target
2019-04-17T21:15:02 < kakimir> as I connect with my ide it will do reset halt
2019-04-17T21:15:08 < mawk> there's at least one breakpoint to install, in reset handler
2019-04-17T21:15:12 < mawk> so I guess it needs to halt for that
2019-04-17T21:15:19 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-17T21:15:21 < mawk> but I'm not sure if that breakpoints isn't like hardcoded in the processor
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2019-04-17T21:16:00 < mawk> also in every exception handler more generally
2019-04-17T21:16:04 < mawk> since gdb breaks on that too
2019-04-17T21:16:21 < kakimir> hmm
2019-04-17T21:16:41 < kakimir> should have set bootmodeindex for swd0 halt after reset
2019-04-17T21:19:19 < kakimir> that would have made this easier or what?
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2019-04-17T21:21:36 < mawk> I don't know what bootmodeindex is
2019-04-17T21:21:40 < mawk> but it looks scary
2019-04-17T21:21:44 < mawk> « WARNING: You must know what you are doing. Once you have changed the BMI, you must have the mean to connect to the device using the mode you have change. »
2019-04-17T21:22:48 < kakimir> HAR is for critical application debugging
2019-04-17T21:23:13 < kakimir> it doesn't do anything before have your session going
2019-04-17T21:36:16 < PaulFertser> kakimir: cortex_m reset_config sysresetreq
2019-04-17T21:36:48 < PaulFertser> kakimir: no, halting normally doesn't require reset
2019-04-17T21:37:09 < PaulFertser> kakimir: inability to halt target usually means its reset is pulled down or the target is in some sleep mode or some other shit like that.
2019-04-17T21:43:23 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-17T21:43:47 < kakimir> let's see flash is all 1111111 when blank
2019-04-17T21:44:24 < kakimir> it loads 0xFFFFFFFF to MSP then proceeds to next address that is reset handler
2019-04-17T21:45:15 < kakimir> what instruction would be all 1111..
2019-04-17T21:46:04 < kakimir> or then it is still in bootloader
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2019-04-17T21:47:14 < kakimir> I could actually do some reading
2019-04-17T21:47:29 < zyp> all ones is not a defined instruction
2019-04-17T21:50:47 < kakimir> certainly it isn't
2019-04-17T21:50:49 < kakimir> The tool access based on SWD must use a connection sequence, to ensure that hot-
2019-04-17T21:50:49 < kakimir> plugging the serial connection does not result in unintentional transfer. The connection
2019-04-17T21:50:53 < kakimir> sequence ensures that the SWD is synchronized correctly to the header. The sequence
2019-04-17T21:50:56 < kakimir> consists of a sequence of 50 clock cycles data = 1s.
2019-04-17T21:51:01 < kakimir> is this basic SWD stuff?
2019-04-17T21:51:16 < zyp> yeah?
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2019-04-17T21:52:59 < kakimir> The HAR activation is based on BMI settings
2019-04-17T21:53:01 < kakimir> and SSW executing endless loop, allowing a debugger to take control over the device.
2019-04-17T21:55:53 < kakimir> oh "Warm Reset" is not possible during SSW
2019-04-17T22:00:09 < kakimir> https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-xmc1100-AB_rm-UM-v01_03-EN.pdf?fileId=5546d46249cd1014014a0a8438a65e29 page 797
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2019-04-17T22:04:02 < invzim> allreet, stm32f722 talking swd + showing up under USB dfu
2019-04-17T22:06:44 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-04-17T22:08:52 < kakimir> PaulFertser: SWD is not physically available for period after reset
2019-04-17T22:09:03 < kakimir> is that normal etc.
2019-04-17T22:09:12 < kakimir> that period being bootloader
2019-04-17T22:11:30 < kakimir> The debug system register bits are reset by Power-on reset. Other reset in the system
2019-04-17T22:11:33 < kakimir> do not have an effect on the debug register, if the tool is registered.
2019-04-17T22:15:59 < kakimir> C_HALT. Note: This bit is unknown after power-on reset
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2019-04-17T22:19:43 < kakimir> PaulFertser: what does it say to you that I got debug session running with only 20khz adapter_khz?
2019-04-17T22:20:04 < kakimir> to me it says "perfect timing"
2019-04-17T22:20:35 < kakimir> not that the line couldn't do 10khz or 1000khz
2019-04-17T22:22:26 < kakimir> time to bite into xmc1100 implementation of openocd
2019-04-17T22:25:09 < kakimir> xmc-2go.cfg: reset_config srst_only srst_nogate
2019-04-17T22:26:37 < PaulFertser> kakimir: to me it says it's something really bad happening
2019-04-17T22:26:48 < PaulFertser> kakimir: you see, the 2go board has physical reset line hooked.
2019-04-17T22:27:17 < kakimir> no way
2019-04-17T22:27:26 < kakimir> open the schematics
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2019-04-17T22:28:18 < kakimir> https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Board_Users_Manual_XMC_2Go_Kit_with_XMC1100_R1.0.pdf?fileId=db3a3043444ee5dc014453d6c75078c6
2019-04-17T22:30:17 < kakimir> some bigger number xmc1xxx chips may have reset pin
2019-04-17T22:31:41 < kakimir> PaulFertser: also xmc1100 bootkit cfg has that line
2019-04-17T22:32:05 < kakimir> what does it say to you when there is such line and no physical reset pin?
2019-04-17T22:37:20 < kakimir> what is default srst delay?
2019-04-17T22:39:18 < kakimir> but nogate should make that inrelevant?
2019-04-17T22:41:57 < kakimir> maybe tommorow I'll try xmc_2go.cfg instead of xmc1xx.cfg
2019-04-17T22:45:06 < kakimir> chipname xmc1100 instead of xmc1000 might not be inrelevant.. also get that reset_config but I think I tried it already
2019-04-17T22:45:28 < kakimir> or didn't because it didn't make any sense
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2019-04-17T22:54:50 < PaulFertser> kakimir: you clearly haven't tried to read the openocd user manual, else you'd knew what nogate means.
2019-04-17T22:55:06 < PaulFertser> kakimir: chipname is irrelevant, yes.
2019-04-17T22:55:20 < PaulFertser> kakimir: you should rather use what's matching the hardware, it's not a matter of trying...
2019-04-17T22:59:18 < kakimir> Its converse is srst_nogate, indicating that JTAG
2019-04-17T22:59:20 < kakimir> commands can safely be issued while SRST is active.
2019-04-17T23:02:49 < kakimir> what does reset_config srst_only srst_nogate do in comparison to reset_config none when there is no reset pin?
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2019-04-17T23:28:21 < qyx> obviously my freertos stack overflow handler is not functioning properly
2019-04-17T23:30:49 < Steffanx> not to obvious to me, but i believe you.
2019-04-17T23:30:53 < Steffanx> *too
2019-04-17T23:34:15 < PaulFertser> kakimir: when you use srst_only you tell OpenOCD that you actually have a reset pin and that it should be used to reset the target. So if it's not connected then OpenOCD won't be able to reset.
2019-04-17T23:36:15 < kakimir> but someone has made those scripts and probably tested them too
2019-04-17T23:36:43 < kakimir> is there anything weird jlink would do with that srst signal?
2019-04-17T23:37:01 < PaulFertser> If you tell openocd to use it, it'll try to use it, just that.
2019-04-17T23:38:05 <@englishman> --disable_interrupts_around_hw_mpy
2019-04-17T23:38:50 < kakimir> with nogate could it be polling it for something?
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2019-04-17T23:40:02 < PaulFertser> kakimir: no, nogate just means that OpenOCD will be trying to communicate with the target while SRST asserted.
2019-04-17T23:40:20 < PaulFertser> kakimir: if you really do not have reset line connected you should be using "reset_config none".
2019-04-17T23:40:26 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-17T23:40:32 < kakimir> my exact thoughts
2019-04-17T23:40:32 < PaulFertser> kakimir: but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be using "cortex_m reset_config sysresetreq"
2019-04-17T23:41:10 < kakimir> I think I have tried reset_config none
2019-04-17T23:41:27 < kakimir> but not sure if cortex_m reset_config none
2019-04-17T23:41:49 < qyx> ok, my mcu hangs, it hangs on the first instruction of the usart interrupt handler
2019-04-17T23:41:56 < PaulFertser> kakimir: there's no such option, it's either vectreset (default) or sysresetreq. All sane cortex-m devices support sysresetreq.
2019-04-17T23:41:59 < qyx> when I openocd it and do halt, it is still there
2019-04-17T23:42:01 < qyx> o
2019-04-17T23:42:32 < PaulFertser> qyx: but what happens if you do "stepi" (gdb) or "step" (openocd) after that?
2019-04-17T23:42:38 < kakimir> qyx: did you see it going there?
2019-04-17T23:42:50 < qyx> PaulFertser: it continues if I step forward
2019-04-17T23:43:06 < qyx> but openocd do a weird thing
2019-04-17T23:43:14 < qyx> normally it prints some stats after halt
2019-04-17T23:43:23 < qyx> it does for the first time
2019-04-17T23:43:25 < qyx> then I step
2019-04-17T23:43:27 < qyx> step, step
2019-04-17T23:43:29 < qyx> continue
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2019-04-17T23:43:42 < qyx> andd if I halt again, it does nothing, doing poll prints the stats
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2019-04-17T23:45:36 < qyx> fuk continue/resume
2019-04-17T23:46:09 < qyx> ok, of course wrong command
2019-04-17T23:46:16 < kakimir> night of openocd
2019-04-17T23:46:24 < qyx> nigh of empty heads
2019-04-17T23:46:31 < kakimir> touche
2019-04-17T23:46:48 < qyx> ok, when I resume, it is back in the isr handler, I can debug forward
2019-04-17T23:48:15 < kakimir> PaulFertser: can there only be reset_config or cortex_m reset_config?
2019-04-17T23:48:46 < PaulFertser> kakimir: "cortex_m reset_config" has any effect only if reset_config doesn't specify srst.
2019-04-17T23:49:37 < kakimir> can that be exact reason why there is srst specified in xmc_2go.cfg and xmc bootkit cfg?
2019-04-17T23:50:00 < kakimir> :o
2019-04-17T23:50:42 < kakimir> we are getting somewhere here
2019-04-17T23:51:43 <@englishman> zyp: used e-golfs here are now under 15kusd, should i trade up
2019-04-17T23:51:54 < kakimir> I'm so pumped I have not eaten after midday
2019-04-17T23:52:01 < zyp>  englishman, cool
2019-04-17T23:52:01 <@englishman> nice pumping
2019-04-17T23:52:10 < zyp> what are you looking to improve?
2019-04-17T23:52:12 < kakimir> it's midnight now
2019-04-17T23:52:14 <@englishman> range
2019-04-17T23:52:26 <@englishman> egolf battery is about 150% that of leaf
2019-04-17T23:52:30 < zyp> what model year?
2019-04-17T23:52:32 <@englishman> 2015
2019-04-17T23:52:38 < kakimir> drove model 3 last week
2019-04-17T23:52:42 <@englishman> cool
2019-04-17T23:52:51 < zyp> uh, aren't both first gen leaf and first gen egolf like 24kWh?
2019-04-17T23:53:07 < kakimir> it's okay and bigger than it's image of "small car"
2019-04-17T23:53:08 <@englishman> worth checking on, it's hard to get info out of VW
2019-04-17T23:53:17 <@englishman> but that would be a big difference yeah
2019-04-17T23:53:31 < zyp> well, egolf 2015 has 24kWh for sure, just like mine
2019-04-17T23:53:36 <@englishman> really
2019-04-17T23:53:45 <@englishman> ive never seen 180k distance estimation on my dash tho
2019-04-17T23:53:48 < qyx> leaf 2012 for 9000€ O_o
2019-04-17T23:53:52 <@englishman> yeah qyx
2019-04-17T23:53:56 <@englishman> but avoid <2014 imo
2019-04-17T23:54:03 <@englishman> the batteries are total shit
2019-04-17T23:54:03 < PaulFertser> kakimir: srst is specified when physical reset line is actually connected between debug adapter and target.
2019-04-17T23:54:04 < qyx> are they NiMH?
2019-04-17T23:54:07 <@englishman> nearly
2019-04-17T23:54:08 < zyp> ah, mine says 190k sometimes, but I've never made it go that far
2019-04-17T23:54:32 <@englishman> they probably drop to nimh energy density in a few years
2019-04-17T23:54:47 <@englishman> 2016s are only a few k more
2019-04-17T23:55:42 < zyp> 160km is possible at 80kph or so
2019-04-17T23:55:42 <@englishman> 2016 egolf, leather and electronics package, 7500km, 20kusd
2019-04-17T23:55:59 < zyp> what does electronics package include?
2019-04-17T23:56:08 <@englishman> the lane keeping thing and assdroid auto
2019-04-17T23:56:09 <@englishman> errno
2019-04-17T23:56:12 <@englishman> not lane keeping
2019-04-17T23:56:15 <@englishman> smart cruise control
2019-04-17T23:56:25 < zyp> uh
2019-04-17T23:56:41 < zyp> both android auto and adaptive cruise was included in baseline package when I bought mine :p
2019-04-17T23:56:45 < qyx> ZhiDou D2 D2S seems legit
2019-04-17T23:56:52 <@englishman> ah its a 5k cad option
2019-04-17T23:56:57 < zyp> IIRC android auto is only available in 2016 onwards
2019-04-17T23:57:06 <@englishman> good 2 know
2019-04-17T23:57:20 < zyp> I got lane assist also
2019-04-17T23:57:33 < kakimir> PaulFertser: is there any possibility that.. it's a workaround to have no reset at all
2019-04-17T23:57:56 <@englishman> 7500km on the clock is acceptable, to save 30k cad off purchase price
2019-04-17T23:58:03 < PaulFertser> kakimir: only if that board connects debugger's srst to power switch.
2019-04-17T23:58:32 < kakimir> good point
2019-04-17T23:58:34 < zyp> 7500km? not 75000?
2019-04-17T23:59:17 <@englishman> yea
2019-04-17T23:59:27 < kakimir> checked it. it doesn't there is no switches in xmc 2go PaulFertser 
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--- Day changed Thu Apr 18 2019
2019-04-18T00:00:01 < zyp> englishman, what year model are you looking at with only 7500km?
2019-04-18T00:00:11 <@englishman> 2016
2019-04-18T00:00:52 < zyp> the fuck did they do with it? park it for show?
2019-04-18T00:01:02 <@englishman> guess they had range anxiety
2019-04-18T00:01:08 < zyp> haha
2019-04-18T00:02:00 < zyp> I checked how long wife's car went since she bought it a year ago, around 6500 km
2019-04-18T00:02:30 < zyp> and she doesn't drive that much, we use my car for all the longer trips
2019-04-18T00:02:55 < zyp> mine is also a 2016 and is closing in on 70000 now
2019-04-18T00:02:57 < PaulFertser> kakimir: XMC4200 has PORST# pin number 32, why are you saying it has no reset pin?
2019-04-18T00:03:24 < kakimir> target is xmc1100
2019-04-18T00:03:40 < invzim> goddamnit - I stole a good practice of having a .checked -> date - me on every altium library item, to make sure pinout etc is correct - and catch them in BOM printout before making boards
2019-04-18T00:03:49 < invzim> was lazy on this one, new part, and sure enough - swapped two pins
2019-04-18T00:04:28 < kakimir> xmc 2go has xmc4200 based jlink
2019-04-18T00:04:51 < kakimir> that has it's own debug connection with reset and whatnot
2019-04-18T00:06:22 < kakimir> PaulFertser: I'm not lying to you :o believe it there is no reset pin.. I thought we got that clear
2019-04-18T00:06:31 < PaulFertser> kakimir: ok
2019-04-18T00:06:45 < PaulFertser> kakimir: weird the config has it enabled then
2019-04-18T00:08:39 < kakimir> all I'm thinking is if it's a mistake or not.. tommorow we know
2019-04-18T00:09:17 < PaulFertser> kakimir: so use reset_config none and sysresetreq
2019-04-18T00:11:27 < kakimir> 0.10.0-11 appears to use sysresetreq but there was probs something about not halted then
2019-04-18T00:12:03 < kakimir> defaults have changed probs in version transition 5 -> 11
2019-04-18T00:12:28 <@englishman> aandrew: the tag-connect arrived and everyone hates it including me
2019-04-18T00:12:31 <@englishman> what a stupid device
2019-04-18T00:13:01 < kakimir> are you okay englishman?
2019-04-18T00:13:10 <@englishman> yeah doin gr8
2019-04-18T00:13:18 <@englishman> everything is really going well for once
2019-04-18T00:13:20 <@englishman> how are you?
2019-04-18T00:14:02 < kakimir> good.. I think
2019-04-18T00:14:58 < Steffanx> Headache much?
2019-04-18T00:15:30 < jadew`> englishman, what's wrong with it?
2019-04-18T00:15:36 < Steffanx> So now youre going to place fucky headers?
2019-04-18T00:15:40 <@englishman> it's a solution looking for a problem
2019-04-18T00:16:06 < Steffanx> Werent you all into tagconnect?
2019-04-18T00:16:15 <@englishman> yeah then i actually tried it
2019-04-18T00:16:28 <@englishman> troll fail
2019-04-18T00:16:37 < Steffanx> I see.
2019-04-18T00:16:38 < qyx> got a reel of 5x2 headers from samtec
2019-04-18T00:16:41 < qyx> *get
2019-04-18T00:16:51 <@englishman> scamtec
2019-04-18T00:16:57 < kakimir> englishman: how it fails?
2019-04-18T00:17:01 < aandrew> englishman: hahaha
2019-04-18T00:17:05 < Steffanx> More expensive than gold qyx?
2019-04-18T00:17:21 < qyx> Steffanx: idk, englishman should instead of tagconnect
2019-04-18T00:17:28 < kakimir> I thought it was just overhyped, but should actually work
2019-04-18T00:17:29 < Steffanx> Ah
2019-04-18T00:17:38 < qyx> he has great b2b relationship with them
2019-04-18T00:17:50 <@englishman> fuck scamtec
2019-04-18T00:17:58 <@englishman> i have not given them a single penny since last year
2019-04-18T00:18:21 < Steffanx> So what are you going to use now englishbot?
2019-04-18T00:18:25 < Steffanx> englishman:.
2019-04-18T00:18:43 < Steffanx> Complete bed tester thingy?
2019-04-18T00:18:47 < Steffanx> Pin
2019-04-18T00:18:53 <@englishman> well we need those anyway for etest
2019-04-18T00:19:01 < aandrew> what was the story behind your murderous rage toward samtec again?
2019-04-18T00:19:08 <@englishman> but just for development, some small connector whatever
2019-04-18T00:19:13 < kakimir> Steffanx: needle bed
2019-04-18T00:19:25 < Steffanx> Pin
2019-04-18T00:19:31 < kakimir> oh
2019-04-18T00:19:34 <@englishman> they are retards and noone working there gives a SINGLE fuck about customers
2019-04-18T00:19:52 < Steffanx> What about ARROW?
2019-04-18T00:19:58 <@englishman> arrow is awesome
2019-04-18T00:20:10 <@englishman> i dont need to buy small shipping boxes anymore thanks to arrow
2019-04-18T00:21:15 < Steffanx> Same. 21 items 8 boxes.
2019-04-18T00:21:19 < Steffanx> Fucking hell.
2019-04-18T00:21:32 -!- con3 [~kvirc@ml.sun.ac.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-04-18T00:21:36 < kakimir> I used arrow once to get allegros 724's with right flavour.. I think it was 15euros or so total and no shipping costs or something :o
2019-04-18T00:21:52 < qyx> yeah?
2019-04-18T00:22:08 < Steffanx> Yes.
2019-04-18T00:22:12 <@englishman> yeah arrow is gr9
2019-04-18T00:22:12 < Steffanx> And paypal
2019-04-18T00:22:17 <@englishman> thats one better than gr8
2019-04-18T00:22:42 < qyx> I should try them
2019-04-18T00:22:56 < kakimir> no shippin costs for stuff that gets delivered faster than order inside funland shipped by mail
2019-04-18T00:23:08 < Thorn> Antares NG-11 / Cygnus CRS-11 launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WdpGHIA2Ek
2019-04-18T00:24:13 < Steffanx> Nowadays you can pay VAT in advance too. Now i like em too
2019-04-18T00:24:17 < qyx> 2,607,455 Connector Circular
2019-04-18T00:24:18 < qyx> uh oh
2019-04-18T00:24:40 < kakimir> tax in advance is must
2019-04-18T00:25:24 < kakimir> DDP
2019-04-18T00:26:13 < kakimir> not just tax but everything
2019-04-18T00:26:18 <@englishman> ^
2019-04-18T00:28:02 < Steffanx> Ya
2019-04-18T00:31:36 < qyx> omg harting 15210122601000, 20 in the shopping cart, $12
2019-04-18T00:31:46 < qyx> otherwise they cost like $3/1pc
2019-04-18T00:32:07 < qyx>  Overstock - New Low Price may be the cause
2019-04-18T00:34:03 < kakimir> overstock? I have only seen "out of stock"
2019-04-18T00:37:41 < kakimir> what it's for qyx?
2019-04-18T00:38:05 < qyx> for my stacking boards
2019-04-18T00:40:06 < kakimir> quite expensives.. size constraints?
2019-04-18T00:41:27 < qyx> fully shrouded, keyed, 1.27mm
2019-04-18T00:41:53 < kakimir> must feel nice to snap it into place
2019-04-18T00:42:03 < qyx> you bet
2019-04-18T00:42:17 < qyx> I still cannot find anything comparable from china
2019-04-18T00:43:35 < kakimir> the fuck I opened aliexpress and it's in russian
2019-04-18T00:44:14 < kakimir> f-secure router checker fast
2019-04-18T00:46:36 < Cracki> ali remembers when you click a link with country code
2019-04-18T00:49:01 < kakimir> *heatenings*
2019-04-18T00:51:36 < kakimir> it's also heatenings when speedtest preffers server in latvia over local server
2019-04-18T00:54:51 < kakimir> have not yet figured out why.. maybe it has to do complex delays in lan
2019-04-18T00:55:51 < kakimir> every time I add new thing to network traffic shape or something changes
2019-04-18T01:04:26 <@englishman> nice warm 20C days now
2019-04-18T01:04:30 <@englishman> heatenings
2019-04-18T01:05:34 < kakimir> do you know what heatenings mean?
2019-04-18T01:05:54 < kakimir> it's translation made from finnish word kuumotus
2019-04-18T01:08:30 < qyx> is it something like my orbital sides
2019-04-18T01:09:07  * karlp thinks it's even time to take the studs off the bike.
2019-04-18T01:10:05 < kakimir> heatenings happens when you hear voice in yer head saying "oh shit oh shit oh shit"
2019-04-18T01:10:07 < karlp> qyx: I can sell you a pile of dragino 1 boards if you want? they're ar2317 though, not ar9331.
2019-04-18T01:10:26 < kakimir> when you are bout to lose cool
2019-04-18T01:10:35 < karlp> qyx:I can probably rustle up like 2-3 spare dragino2s if you really want, but that's all we've got.
2019-04-18T01:10:45 < karlp> qyx: have you looked at allwinner v3s?
2019-04-18T01:11:32 < kakimir> https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Heatenings
2019-04-18T01:11:44 < qyx> karlp: no but it reminds me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praga_V3S
2019-04-18T01:13:52 < jadew`> watching a russian video about repairing iphones and youtube is translating heat gun as "hair dryer"
2019-04-18T01:13:59 < jadew`> or maybe that's what they call it
2019-04-18T01:14:05 < kakimir> :D
2019-04-18T01:16:00 < _unreal_> hello, no one is talking in #pic so I'll try here. trying to convert this code http://www.dakeng.com/step508.asm writen for 12c508a to 12f508
2019-04-18T01:16:39 < _unreal_> from what I can tell the code is 99 % fine. there is just ONE or 2 things that need to be changed and i'm not sure. I also have an error report on trying to compile
2019-04-18T01:16:53 < _unreal_> https://pastebin.com/usyRx3qY
2019-04-18T01:17:29  * karlp laughs at englishman hating tag-connect
2019-04-18T01:17:44 < qyx> I think 95% of people here either don't use PIC or hate it
2019-04-18T01:17:56 < kakimir> _unreal_: you lack headers
2019-04-18T01:18:00 < mawk> because you love it karlp ?
2019-04-18T01:18:39 < kakimir> your symbols referring to peripheral registers are undefined
2019-04-18T01:19:20 < _unreal_> qyx, I 100% agree thats likely
2019-04-18T01:19:37 < qyx> karlp: oh does it have ram onchip and tqfp? http://linuxgizmos.com/files/wu_licheepizero.jpg
2019-04-18T01:19:57 <@englishman> why karlp
2019-04-18T01:20:15 < kakimir> oh wait there is include.. forget _unreal_ 
2019-04-18T01:20:19 < karlp> englishman:why what?
2019-04-18T01:20:35 < kakimir> another thing.. does 508 have the same resources than 508a?
2019-04-18T01:21:06 < _unreal_> 508/508a I'm not sure of the differences
2019-04-18T01:21:18 < karlp> qyx: but really, if you want a bunch of ar2317, complete in din rail cases, with a 240VAC input supply built in, I'm your man...
2019-04-18T01:21:18 < kakimir> yeah well
2019-04-18T01:21:30 < kakimir> _unreal_: do the ground work first
2019-04-18T01:21:39 < _unreal_> kakimir, I purchased a bunch of 12c508a compiled and burned them all only to find that I likely BURNED them all
2019-04-18T01:21:52 < _unreal_> something worng with the code? or what ever I did so I picked up 12f's
2019-04-18T01:21:57 < karlp> _unreal_: in what fucking world do you think you're going to get a fun reception for your shitty pic problems?
2019-04-18T01:22:11 < qyx> :D
2019-04-18T01:22:21 < karlp> mawk: love what?
2019-04-18T01:22:24 < _unreal_> karlp, I have an up hill battle even down hill is +2 degree'
2019-04-18T01:22:26 < _unreal_> s
2019-04-18T01:22:29 < mawk> tagconnect
2019-04-18T01:22:43 < _unreal_> kakimir, yes
2019-04-18T01:22:50 < kakimir> _unreal_: compare the chips first
2019-04-18T01:22:51 < karlp> no, I'm withh aandrew, (and now english) I think tagconnect is a solution looking for a problem.
2019-04-18T01:23:33 < karlp> also, dugh, again fucking markdown problems.
2019-04-18T01:23:35 < _unreal_> kakimir, the only major difference that I know is that the 12f is a baseline 14bit and the 12c is a 12bit core processor
2019-04-18T01:23:40 -!- con3 [~kvirc@ml.sun.ac.za] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-18T01:23:48 < kakimir> what I have learned from some AVR chips is that A in chip name can mean differences as big as adc
2019-04-18T01:23:50 < _unreal_> other wise all words are the same
2019-04-18T01:23:54 < rajkosto> tagconnect is a weird american company trying to sell you expensive bulky jtag connectors
2019-04-18T01:24:19 < mawk> the no cost thing sounded nice
2019-04-18T01:24:25 < kakimir> _unreal_: maybe same registers are with slightly different name
2019-04-18T01:24:28 < mawk> but I guess only when you make extra large volume
2019-04-18T01:24:38 < mawk> and when you do that you don't do things by hand
2019-04-18T01:24:39 < qyx> markdown problems suggest zypsnips are being updated
2019-04-18T01:24:46 < mawk> so I fail to see the target audience
2019-04-18T01:25:11 < kakimir> go to that .inc _unreal_ and see what registers you should find and how those are named
2019-04-18T01:25:20 < _unreal_> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/devicedoc/40139e.pdf 12c, http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/41236E.pdf 12f
2019-04-18T01:25:22 < karlp> mawk: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/cortex-debug-headers-cables.md#proprietary-shit
2019-04-18T01:25:33 < _unreal_> kakimir, checking
2019-04-18T01:25:36 < karlp> _unreal_: you solve you problem by not using shitty parts fromthe beginning
2019-04-18T01:25:50 < kakimir> you can probs crosscheck between 508a and 508 using register addresses
2019-04-18T01:26:34 < mawk> lol karlp 
2019-04-18T01:26:36 < mawk> you updated it
2019-04-18T01:26:40 < karlp> of course I did :)
2019-04-18T01:26:44 < kakimir> if you expect them to be the same peripheral and same address
2019-04-18T01:27:02 < zyp> I find it amusing how much energy you guys put into hating tag-connect :p
2019-04-18T01:27:12 < karlp> qyx: yar, v3s is (one of?) the allwinners with embedded ram/flash
2019-04-18T01:28:21 < kakimir> _unreal_: halt! Error[105]  : Cannot open file (Include File "12f508.inc" not found)
2019-04-18T01:28:54 < kakimir> it boils down to that line
2019-04-18T01:29:05 < _unreal_> https://pastebin.com/nGnZneqF
2019-04-18T01:29:20 < qyx> probably a bedtime now, the error was occuring every ~5minutes except the last hour
2019-04-18T01:29:29 < _unreal_> kakimir, I'm running mpasm in wine
2019-04-18T01:29:37 < _unreal_> ok maybe I need to boot into windows
2019-04-18T01:29:54 < qyx> what is mpasm?
2019-04-18T01:30:00 < qyx> is it actually an assembler?
2019-04-18T01:30:10 < jadew`> zyp, the cherries you can't reach are sour
2019-04-18T01:30:17 < zyp> :)
2019-04-18T01:30:23 < kakimir> _unreal_: more likelly your configuration is somehow wrong
2019-04-18T01:30:24 < karlp> _unreal_: go back to #pic 
2019-04-18T01:30:31 < _unreal_> qyx, it is pain and agony
2019-04-18T01:30:42 < karlp> yes, so stop using pics thhen.
2019-04-18T01:30:47 < qyx> ugh, in 2019
2019-04-18T01:30:56 < qyx> I would say 8bit should die
2019-04-18T01:31:00 < kakimir> pics are great value
2019-04-18T01:31:01 < qyx> but 14bit..
2019-04-18T01:31:13 < kakimir> if you need only a little
2019-04-18T01:31:15 < qyx> and assembler
2019-04-18T01:31:21 < jadew`> I still like AVRs
2019-04-18T01:31:28 < jadew`> very easy to work with
2019-04-18T01:31:33 < mawk> you have arm that provide only a little too kakimir 
2019-04-18T01:31:34 < _unreal_> the only credit I'll give the pic is that for what I'm trying to use it for it beats the HELLL out of arduino
2019-04-18T01:31:41 < karlp> "please port my shitty assembler for shit proc A to shit proc B because I didn't even consider just using cheaper/faster instead)
2019-04-18T01:31:46 < _unreal_> in regards to the code being direct ASM
2019-04-18T01:31:48 < qyx> zeah but at least bitness of avrs % 8 == 0
2019-04-18T01:31:53 < karlp> _unreal_: no, stahp.
2019-04-18T01:32:00 < _unreal_> stahp?
2019-04-18T01:32:01 < kakimir> there are pic clones too if you don't want to pay 30cents
2019-04-18T01:32:03 < karlp> you can write asm for avr just as merrily if you like.
2019-04-18T01:32:12 < zyp> jadew`, not really
2019-04-18T01:32:55 < jadew`> zyp, compared to modern MCUs they are quite simple... no clocks to set up
2019-04-18T01:33:03 < zyp> I did some avr work «recently» (like three years ago)
2019-04-18T01:33:06 < jadew`> relatively simple peripheral setup
2019-04-18T01:33:36 < zyp> just getting a working build environment with avr-gcc is surprisingly painful
2019-04-18T01:33:53 < jadew`> zyp, probably because you were just getting into it
2019-04-18T01:33:57 < zyp> gcc-arm-embedded kinda spoils you in that regard
2019-04-18T01:34:03 < jadew`> you only have to install winavr or atmel studio
2019-04-18T01:34:16 < jadew`> that's it
2019-04-18T01:34:18 < karlp> zyp: how so? you isntall gcc-avr and you get... the same thing?
2019-04-18T01:34:50 < karlp> my makkefiles for avrs are pretty similar to cortex-m?
2019-04-18T01:35:02 < zyp> karlp, IIRC there were this fucking convoluted process to even get the avr-gcc packages
2019-04-18T01:35:22 < jadew`> zyp, you were probably reading the wrong tutorial :P
2019-04-18T01:35:54 < jadew`> should have installed atmel studio
2019-04-18T01:36:34 < Cracki> halp. I want a decent remote control for a wheeled thingy I'm building. what controllers and what receivers can you recommend and/or trashtalk?
2019-04-18T01:36:35 < karlp> zyp:huh, for me avr-gcc was a reliable isntall from apt, unlike g-a-e.
2019-04-18T01:36:44 < zyp> hmm, apparently now it's a plain download from microchip, but IIRC three years ago I had to register to even be allowed to download it
2019-04-18T01:36:58 < zyp> well, yeah, but my work computer didn't have apt
2019-04-18T01:37:17 < karlp> well, I would still have been looking on "not microchip" for it.
2019-04-18T01:37:23 < karlp> it was always convoluted to get from atmel too,
2019-04-18T01:37:27 < _unreal_> karlp, and qyx you'll be happy to know I just found the issue
2019-04-18T01:37:30 < karlp> it was always on savannah.gnu or somethhing.
2019-04-18T01:37:36 < karlp> _unreal_:nope, don't care.
2019-04-18T01:37:45 < jadew`> atmel's site was much more organized tho
2019-04-18T01:37:52 < _unreal_> the issue.... drum roll please
2019-04-18T01:38:00 < zyp> karlp, any non-atmel windows build I found was horribly outdated
2019-04-18T01:38:08 < _unreal_> hum tough crowd
2019-04-18T01:38:10 < Cracki> the downloads box at the end lists a few zipfiles... https://www.microchip.com/mplab/avr-support/avr-and-arm-toolchains-c-compilers
2019-04-18T01:38:17 < _unreal_> running mpasm in wine
2019-04-18T01:38:19 < karlp> oh, avr-gcc was always likke a fixed gcc 4.somethhing, for like 10 years
2019-04-18T01:38:24 < karlp> there simply _were_ no changes.
2019-04-18T01:38:34 < karlp> no9 idea about windows builds :)
2019-04-18T01:38:53 < jadew`> let me check my AS install
2019-04-18T01:38:55 < kakimir> no going back after atmel studio
2019-04-18T01:39:05 < zyp> kakimir, fuck atmel studio
2019-04-18T01:39:06 < qyx> zyp: apt install avr-gcc always worked
2019-04-18T01:39:10 < karlp> ^^
2019-04-18T01:39:13 < _unreal_> going for more dewars scotch
2019-04-18T01:39:13 < kakimir> I don't care zyp 
2019-04-18T01:39:22 < karlp> looks like it's been updated to gcc 7.4 now too.
2019-04-18T01:39:23 < qyx> *gcc-avr
2019-04-18T01:39:43 < zyp> I got a blob of legacy code with makefiles and shit, I'm not gonna port that to some IDE bullshit
2019-04-18T01:40:02 < kakimir> zyp: you might have trauma from sam's but studio is best thing for 8bit chips there is
2019-04-18T01:40:04 < jadew`> avr-g++ (AVR_8_bit_GNU_Toolchain_3.6.1_1750) 5.4.0
2019-04-18T01:40:10 < jadew`> that's what the latest AS comes with
2019-04-18T01:40:12 < _unreal_> lol zyp I read that as IDE buildshit
2019-04-18T01:40:17 < zyp> on the other hand, sorting out hardcoded paths from some other developers computer wasn't fun either
2019-04-18T01:40:27 < Cracki> http://blog.zakkemble.net/avr-gcc-builds/
2019-04-18T01:40:30 < Cracki> if you want a newer gcc
2019-04-18T01:40:44 < qyx> I may clone this https://simonrichards.com/v3s/
2019-04-18T01:40:46 < kakimir> do asm projects have makefile?
2019-04-18T01:40:48 < Cracki> avr-gcc project is still a thing, microchip is extra conservative about their releases
2019-04-18T01:41:02 < _unreal_> kakimir, not that I know of
2019-04-18T01:41:11 < Cracki> 8.3.0
2019-04-18T01:41:29 < karlp> eh, 7.4 is packaged for my distro, recent enough...
2019-04-18T01:41:30 < Cracki> you can use this from atmel studio too
2019-04-18T01:43:40 < zyp> IIRC I didn't figure out how to get gcc to play along either
2019-04-18T01:44:50 < zyp> s/gcc/gdb/
2019-04-18T01:45:09 < zyp> I think I dicked around with avarice without luck, gave up, and just used avrdude
2019-04-18T01:46:48 < jadew`> has avrdude been updated?
2019-04-18T01:46:52 < jadew`> does it support atmel-ice?
2019-04-18T01:48:01 < zyp> doesn't it support pretty much anything?
2019-04-18T01:48:27 < Cracki> https://www.nongnu.org/avrdude/user-manual/avrdude_4.html
2019-04-18T01:48:51 < Cracki> it supports a lot but to hell with such a generic name as "atmel ice"
2019-04-18T01:49:18 < kakimir> atmel ice rulez
2019-04-18T01:49:20 < karlp> I used avarice with a dragon, it was.... finicky, and after using proper swd and swo, holy shit, never going back
2019-04-18T01:49:34 < zyp> exactly
2019-04-18T01:49:54 < kakimir> avr debugging is slow
2019-04-18T01:49:59 < zyp> avr peripherals are mostly a joke too
2019-04-18T01:50:13 < zyp> although, the i2c peripheral just fucking worked
2019-04-18T01:50:21 < kakimir> I don't know
2019-04-18T01:50:35 < kakimir> everything I have touched in avr just magically fucking start working
2019-04-18T01:50:42 < jadew`> ^
2019-04-18T01:50:44 < Cracki> it's a lot simpler
2019-04-18T01:50:47 < zyp> that was the only pleasant thing about that experience
2019-04-18T01:51:28 < Cracki> eh avrs have their pitfalls too :P I like the datasheets, very accommodating of impatient readers
2019-04-18T01:51:50 < jadew`> right, the datasheets are great
2019-04-18T01:52:14 < Cracki> oh, sorry, that avrdude_4.html link is from 2013
2019-04-18T01:52:15 < jadew`> you can just skip to registers most of the time
2019-04-18T01:52:16 < zyp> how so?
2019-04-18T01:52:23 < zyp> uh
2019-04-18T01:52:37 < jadew`> like... you get a complete picture from the register descriptions alone
2019-04-18T01:52:42 < zyp> doesn't most microcontrollers have a similar datasheet/manual layout?
2019-04-18T01:52:43 < Cracki> that, and it repeats what you need to know in every instance, you don't have to read the "overarching" paragraphs first
2019-04-18T01:52:57 < jadew`> zyp, what Cracki said
2019-04-18T01:52:59 < Cracki> and it says exactly what all to enable
2019-04-18T01:53:20 < jadew`> it doesn't assume that you've memorized the entire datasheet already
2019-04-18T01:53:37 < Cracki> with stm32, as we're seing here regularly, you have to figure out on your own that you need to poke a power peripheral before something works :P
2019-04-18T01:53:49 < karlp> yeah, that's not a propertyy of the datasheets
2019-04-18T01:54:01 < karlp> that's a property of avrs starting up in "we're burning all the power until you turn shhit off"
2019-04-18T01:54:04 < mawk> with cortex A stuff like ti am335x it's even worse Cracki 
2019-04-18T01:54:07 < mawk> you're lucky with stm32
2019-04-18T01:54:09 < zyp> sounds to me like the AVR is just so simple there's not much to say about it
2019-04-18T01:54:12 < Cracki> in an atmel sheet, they'd say "poke bit X in PRR to enable"
2019-04-18T01:54:14 < karlp> as opposed to most of the cortex-m going, "we're not doing shit until you turn things on"
2019-04-18T01:54:29 < zyp> karlp, I find that differing between vendors though
2019-04-18T01:54:44 < zyp> nrf seems to have pretty much everything enabled by default
2019-04-18T01:54:47 < ds2> just power? no clock registers to setup?
2019-04-18T01:54:49 < ds2> :D
2019-04-18T01:54:50 < Cracki> in that stm32f1 sheet someone had to work with a few days ago, the only indication was in a block diagram for the peripheral where it only said "SOMETHING enable" and you had to guess where that enable is
2019-04-18T01:55:43 < jadew`> zyp, they're both simple and the datasheets are really really well written
2019-04-18T01:55:47 < zyp> oh, by the way, nrf52 has the best workarounds in the errata sheets
2019-04-18T01:55:54 < Cracki> I think I've dealt with avrs that have a power peripheral where you also had to _enable_ stuff, and everything was off initially
2019-04-18T01:56:08 < Cracki> still, the sheet said clearly, "poke this bit in that power peripheral register"
2019-04-18T01:56:52 < Cracki> ds2, avrs have no "real" clock tree :>
2019-04-18T01:56:59 < zyp> https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/topic/errata_nRF52840_Rev2/ERR/nRF52840/Rev2/latest/anomaly_840_187.html#anomaly_840_187 <- I love the workaround here
2019-04-18T01:57:16 < Cracki> everything's clocked from one source, maybe with power-of-two prescalers, unless you configure something else
2019-04-18T01:57:16 < ds2> they just have 235490328492349082310493284902380492384908230123904812390480329819234890231 programming methods
2019-04-18T01:57:50 < ds2> OT Q - what is the simpliest non arudrino method of programming an attiny10?
2019-04-18T01:58:17 < Cracki> uhhh define "simple" and "non-arduino"
2019-04-18T01:58:19 < mawk> lol zyp 
2019-04-18T01:58:24 < mawk> magic fix
2019-04-18T01:58:27 < jadew`> not sure what the arduino method is, but don't they have something like TPI?
2019-04-18T01:58:29 < ds2> investment less then $5 :D
2019-04-18T01:58:45 < Cracki> what methods does a tiny10 take? isp? arduino can be made to act as an in system programmer
2019-04-18T01:58:53 < ds2> the attiny10 uses a different low pin count programmer then bigger AVRs
2019-04-18T01:58:56 < zyp> ds2, connect a couple of pushbuttons to it and push them in the correct pattern
2019-04-18T01:59:05 < jadew`> ds2, if it does, then it's probably TPI
2019-04-18T01:59:12 < Cracki> name it, I'm sure someone wrote a sketch for arduino that does it
2019-04-18T01:59:13 < jadew`> you can buy a programmer or make one
2019-04-18T01:59:40 < zyp> mawk, yeah, and those addrs doesn't belong to any documented peripheral, the area is not in the list of instances
2019-04-18T01:59:49 < ds2> let me put it another way... can an off the shelf jlink or the atmel ice do AVRs?
2019-04-18T02:00:02 < jadew`> ds2, atmel ice does them all
2019-04-18T02:00:12 < jadew`> ISP, TPI, JTAG
2019-04-18T02:00:15 < ds2> If there is an ARM in SOT23-6, I would not have this issue
2019-04-18T02:00:25 < zyp> jlink probably only does the larger ones with jtag
2019-04-18T02:00:34 < ds2> jadew`: Atmel Ice... not something else called AVRice?
2019-04-18T02:00:35 < Cracki> lol why do they keep reinventing shit, they already have debugwire that toggles a single pin. "Tiny Programming Interface (TPI)"
2019-04-18T02:00:41 < zyp> if any at all
2019-04-18T02:00:46 < jadew`> ds2, yes, atmel ice, the small white programmer
2019-04-18T02:00:52 < jadew`> with the two ports
2019-04-18T02:01:08 < Cracki> https://hackaday.com/2017/01/06/usb-arduino-into-avr-tpi-programmer/
2019-04-18T02:01:10 < Cracki> there you go
2019-04-18T02:01:11 < ds2> jadew`: you are talking about the newer thing they called atmel ice... they have an older one that is blue also called that
2019-04-18T02:01:25 < jadew`> ds2, I have the new one
2019-04-18T02:02:31 < ds2> all this programming confusion is really destroying the nice simple SOT23-6 package :(
2019-04-18T02:02:49 < ds2> jadew`: is the one you have a rebranded and locked segger?
2019-04-18T02:03:06 < jadew`> no, it's designed by atmel
2019-04-18T02:03:17 < ds2> I just wanted a small thing to generate some odd clocks.... a 555 type app w/o all the passives
2019-04-18T02:03:42 < ds2> blah. guess I am out of luck
2019-04-18T02:04:03 < Cracki> yet another project: https://microtherion.github.io/ScratchMonkey/TPI.html
2019-04-18T02:04:31 < Cracki> so your choices are readymade dongles, sketches that act like them but are tricky, or simple sketches that aren't as user friendly
2019-04-18T02:05:30 < ds2> do the USBasps from the usual guys (amz, ebay, etc) work? the clearest answer seems to be depends on firmware :/
2019-04-18T02:05:33 < karlp> ds2: what are you doing with at tiny10?
2019-04-18T02:05:51 < karlp> nvm, saw your comment on clocks
2019-04-18T02:05:56 < karlp> hav eyou considered greenpak? :)
2019-04-18T02:06:43  * jadew` never used a 555 in a real circuit
2019-04-18T02:07:09 < ds2> karlp: greenpak?
2019-04-18T02:07:43 < jadew`> not sure you'd be able to fit much logic into them
2019-04-18T02:07:51 < jadew`> they are tiny
2019-04-18T02:08:59 < zyp> karlp, are they easier to program?
2019-04-18T02:09:15 < jadew`> probably, but you only get to do it once
2019-04-18T02:09:15 < ds2> looks like they need some investment in tools
2019-04-18T02:09:53 < ds2> in the end, all this is going to do is send pulses to drive a camera
2019-04-18T02:10:17 < jadew`> ds2, I don't understand what the problem is with the tiny?
2019-04-18T02:10:19 < karlp> zyp:I wasn't really being serious :)
2019-04-18T02:10:24 < zyp> hehe
2019-04-18T02:10:26 < ds2> digital just makes it easier to tweak the timing
2019-04-18T02:10:31 < jadew`> just that you don't have the right programmer?
2019-04-18T02:10:40 < karlp> I mean, kinda, because I love the idea of them, but.... not really.
2019-04-18T02:11:01 < ds2> jadew`: tooling (programmer) investment... I don't do much with non ARM... so buying a programmer is buying another disposible item
2019-04-18T02:11:17 < jadew`> ds2, the atmel ice does ARM too
2019-04-18T02:11:28 < ds2> jadew`: I have a segger already =)
2019-04-18T02:11:39 < zyp> ds2, if you want small, why not just go for some stm32 in qfn or whatever?
2019-04-18T02:11:49 < zyp> should get it down to 5x5 at least without problems
2019-04-18T02:11:54 < jadew`> are prices comparable too?
2019-04-18T02:12:22 < ds2> zyp: size and weight... this is a fun project... the SOT23-6 makes it brain dead simple to solder
2019-04-18T02:12:43 < ds2> overall weight is critical - the assembly is going on a kite
2019-04-18T02:13:13 < zyp> I'm inclined to argue that the weight of the mcu itself is fairly negligible
2019-04-18T02:13:17 < ds2> if it wasn't that, I got plenty of scrap ARM boards
2019-04-18T02:13:33 < zyp> but yeah, solderability is a point
2019-04-18T02:13:35 < ds2> zyp: PCB... trying to eliminate that too
2019-04-18T02:13:43 < ds2> dead bug
2019-04-18T02:13:45 < zyp> ah
2019-04-18T02:13:57 < zyp> just go for the qfp32 then, should be easy enough to deadbug
2019-04-18T02:14:06 < Cracki> that camera will weigh more than any microcontroller you can reasonably propose
2019-04-18T02:14:30 < zyp> or the so-20, for 
2019-04-18T02:14:37 < zyp> for that matter
2019-04-18T02:15:23 < ds2> the other consideration is field repairability with a portal butane iron
2019-04-18T02:15:29 < Cracki> lol
2019-04-18T02:16:15 < Cracki> shrinkwrap it maybe, that might keep it together and scratch-free for many many drops
2019-04-18T02:17:04 < ds2> good idea
2019-04-18T02:17:24 < Cracki> heatshrink tubing, I've seen clear ones before
2019-04-18T02:17:38 < ds2> if I open up SO packages...the LPC8xx seems to be more suitable then the STM32
2019-04-18T02:20:30 < Cracki> so... you need it to generate a periodic pulse or something? milliseconds, seconds, minutes?
2019-04-18T02:21:06 < ds2> yep.... all it is going to do is act as a button pusher... probally every 1-2 seconds
2019-04-18T02:21:54 < Cracki> what's keeping you from jumperwiring everything and bubblewrapping the spaghetti?
2019-04-18T02:22:10 < ds2> big plus would be being able to accept VCC up to 4.2V
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2019-04-18T02:22:33 < ds2> weight... trying to not have to get a nother kite til I have something working
2019-04-18T02:22:35 < Cracki> that reduces the selection of cortex m choices
2019-04-18T02:22:45 < Cracki> how much does the cam weigh
2019-04-18T02:23:03 < ds2> I got tiny ARM boards...nrf5x, Atmel SAMD's, STM32's, etc
2019-04-18T02:23:07 < ds2> let me find the link
2019-04-18T02:23:53 < Cracki> LDO would remove the worry about input voltage, yes?
2019-04-18T02:24:22 < ds2> 2.8G - https://www.adafruit.com/product/3202
2019-04-18T02:24:29 < Cracki> hell
2019-04-18T02:24:41 < Cracki> that's cute
2019-04-18T02:24:53 < ds2> yes, the LDO would... I found a place to steal 3.3V but I donno how it behaves if it goes to sleep
2019-04-18T02:25:06 < Cracki> mean that module?
2019-04-18T02:25:10 < ds2> this is all a 'fun project'
2019-04-18T02:25:14 < Cracki> :P
2019-04-18T02:25:27 < Cracki> you wanna send it to sleep between shots?
2019-04-18T02:25:30 < ds2> yes that module has a eeprom that takes 3.3V (or 3.0V)
2019-04-18T02:25:37 < ds2> no, I don't want it to sleep at all
2019-04-18T02:25:55 < Cracki> so why the worry about stealing 3.3v 
2019-04-18T02:26:01 < ds2> but it does go to sleep by itself... there is minimal docs on it :D
2019-04-18T02:26:05 < Cracki> ah
2019-04-18T02:26:13 < ds2> I donno how much power I can steal
2019-04-18T02:26:44 < ds2> it seems to work okay with a MSP430 board right now but I want to make it ligher if I can
2019-04-18T02:27:00 < ds2> the 430 doesn't handle 4.2V either
2019-04-18T02:27:07 < Cracki> how much do you need? 5 mA should be safe?
2019-04-18T02:27:40 < ds2> I wouldn't count even that for a mysterious asian sourced design
2019-04-18T02:28:33 < Cracki> attiny10 takes 0.2mA in active mode
2019-04-18T02:29:00 < Cracki> add whatever (little?) current you need to drive the pulse
2019-04-18T02:29:16 < ds2> The other potential problem is how to wake it once it goes into sleep mode....had that issue with a pen camera mode a long time ago
2019-04-18T02:29:30 < ds2> if the regulator shuts down, I have no processor
2019-04-18T02:29:45 < Cracki> cap to buffer, monitor?
2019-04-18T02:30:02 < Cracki> like pulling a toe when its eye lids droop
2019-04-18T02:30:36 < Cracki> _if_ that thing actually goes to sleep unexpectedly. there must be a pattern to it.
2019-04-18T02:31:13 < ds2> possibily... still need to put it on a long stick to see how bad the pictures are... the cheap pen cameras years ago were horrible with a capital H
2019-04-18T02:32:15 < Cracki> the adafruit "demo" vids look passable but I would bet they're long exposures, something you can't afford on a kite that moves around constantly
2019-04-18T02:32:26 < Cracki> long meaning more than 10 ms or so
2019-04-18T02:32:37 < Cracki> motion blur fucks you over really quickly
2019-04-18T02:32:43 < ds2> yep but since it'll probally be sunny....
2019-04-18T02:33:03 < Cracki> indeed, these vids are of severe twilight
2019-04-18T02:33:27 < ds2> it is too bad that ST Accel with a programmable ARM isn't showing up at Digikey
2019-04-18T02:34:16 < Cracki> uh wats dat, this? https://vast.cs.ucla.edu/sites/default/files/publications/st-accel-high.pdf
2019-04-18T02:34:39 < ds2> no
2019-04-18T02:35:22 < ds2> LIS331EB according to my notes
2019-04-18T02:38:37 < Cracki> ah, mems acc
2019-04-18T02:38:42 < Cracki> i see no gyro function
2019-04-18T02:38:54 < Cracki> "can collect inputs from ... gyros..."
2019-04-18T02:39:42 < Cracki> yeh a gyro to tell you when the camera isn't moving, that'd be useful
2019-04-18T02:50:20 < ds2> an acc would at least tell me if I am pointed downwards...
2019-04-18T02:51:51 < rajkosto> get a 9-axis module
2019-04-18T02:51:55 < rajkosto> acc + gyro + mag
2019-04-18T03:00:42 < mawk> magnificent breakout cable https://pix.watch/zvPrGo/7U1lOJ.jpeg
2019-04-18T03:02:23 < Cracki> acc alone will tell you where you're accelerated towards. that might not be down.
2019-04-18T03:02:56 < Cracki> that's why these things have "apps" that perform sensor fusion, i.e. incorporate gyro and mag to compute true attitude
2019-04-18T03:03:09 < mawk> the startup I worked before does that Cracki 
2019-04-18T03:03:25 < rajkosto> sensor fusion is ez
2019-04-18T03:03:27 < rajkosto> use madgwick algo
2019-04-18T03:03:29 < mawk> fusion from accelerometer, gyroscope, magnetometer, inertial central, some others
2019-04-18T03:03:36 < mawk> and they sell to military
2019-04-18T03:03:41 < rajkosto> you end up with an orientation quaternion
2019-04-18T03:03:56 < mawk> they had top brains from french great schools
2019-04-18T03:04:04 < Cracki> I have a cruddy mpu6050. either you use raw sensor values, or there's a blob that does "something"
2019-04-18T03:04:38 < rajkosto> i like the bmi150 really accurate and responsive
2019-04-18T03:04:38 < Cracki> might have to try that. I'm still slowly working on an inverted pendulum
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2019-04-18T03:05:41 < rajkosto> sorry BMI160 + BMM150
2019-04-18T03:05:51 < bitmask> is that bosch?
2019-04-18T03:05:57 < rajkosto> yes
2019-04-18T03:06:06 < bitmask> havent heard of those, ive used a bno055 though
2019-04-18T03:06:19 < rajkosto> those are the last ive used
2019-04-18T03:06:25 < rajkosto> they may have made newer numbers
2019-04-18T03:06:44 < bitmask> the bno could have used a few improvements so i may have to look into the new ones
2019-04-18T03:06:44 < rajkosto> https://www.bosch-sensortec.com/bst/products/all_products/bmi085 ooh
2019-04-18T03:10:17 < Cracki> I got an engineering sample of the mpu6050, which has halved sensitivity. I'm sure that would fuck with that dsp blob
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2019-04-18T03:11:12 < Cracki> china...
2019-04-18T03:11:24 < rajkosto> i cant believe youve done this
2019-04-18T03:11:32 < Cracki> wat who
2019-04-18T03:11:35 -!- _unreal_ [~acer@99-60-100-45.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-04-18T03:11:44 < rajkosto> why would you get weird broken chip
2019-04-18T03:11:54 < Cracki> I didn't, the chinese sent those
2019-04-18T03:12:21 < Cracki> there is exactly one place on the internet where the symptoms are connected to the cause
2019-04-18T03:12:25 < rajkosto> refund
2019-04-18T03:12:28 < Cracki> lol
2019-04-18T03:12:32 < Cracki> too late for that
2019-04-18T03:12:39 < Cracki> bought them years ago
2019-04-18T03:12:43 < rajkosto> anyway even the 12bit bmi055 is great but has no magnetometer passthrough and is old
2019-04-18T03:13:06 < rajkosto> they used it in the ps4 ds4
2019-04-18T03:16:47 < ds2> Cracki: You can seperate it out from gravity math isn't that hard
2019-04-18T03:17:00 < Cracki> can't be assed to get into this
2019-04-18T03:17:25 < ds2> it is all trivial if you got space and weight for 9 axis plus processor... 9 axis + M0 core in 1 package would be amazing
2019-04-18T03:17:26 < Cracki> obviously it's possible, that's what all IMUs do
2019-04-18T03:17:41 < ds2> let me rephase... it isn't hard to seperate it
2019-04-18T03:17:56 < Cracki> if you don't have a gyro, it is
2019-04-18T03:18:04 < ds2> no
2019-04-18T03:18:32 < ds2> I have done it on bigger ARMs... like a M3... donno if a M0 will suffice
2019-04-18T03:18:43 < ds2> a gyro is just cheating :D
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2019-04-18T03:19:00 < Cracki> what are you saying, it's possible to take 3-axis acceleration of an accelerated body, and extract gravity from that?
2019-04-18T03:19:11 < Cracki> if you claim that, I want you to explain it
2019-04-18T03:19:16 < ds2> Yes I am
2019-04-18T03:19:18 < Cracki> I'm sure you are ignoring the lack of gyro
2019-04-18T03:19:31 < ds2> this is nothing for then DC seperation
2019-04-18T03:19:32 < Cracki> I'm not talking about the sensor standing still, only feeling gravity
2019-04-18T03:19:55 < rajkosto> you need some floats
2019-04-18T03:19:59 < Cracki> now your sensor is standing upside down
2019-04-18T03:20:02 < rajkosto> to run madgwick
2019-04-18T03:20:03 < ds2> gravity (for practical purposes) doesn't change
2019-04-18T03:20:10 < Cracki> it's upside down, how can you tell
2019-04-18T03:20:13 < ds2> so you isolate the DC vector 
2019-04-18T03:20:17 < rajkosto> Cracki, upside down negates y
2019-04-18T03:20:19 < Cracki> the dc vector moves all the time
2019-04-18T03:20:36 < Cracki> your sensor spins and accelerates in addition to gravity
2019-04-18T03:20:38 < rajkosto> the accelerometer stabilizes the gyro and the magnetometer stabilizes the gyro yaw
2019-04-18T03:20:42 < ds2> you (the accel) moves... it is a matter of propsective
2019-04-18T03:20:48 < Cracki> rajkosto, he claimed not to need a gyro
2019-04-18T03:20:53 < Cracki> so don't talk about gyros
2019-04-18T03:20:57 < Cracki> obviously with a gyro it's not an issue
2019-04-18T03:21:01 < rajkosto> you ned 9axis to have all 3 axes not drifting
2019-04-18T03:21:03 < Cracki> he said he can do it without a gyro
2019-04-18T03:21:06 < rajkosto> 6 axis lets your yaw drift
2019-04-18T03:21:07 < ds2> implementation - you can brute force it with a LPF
2019-04-18T03:21:19 < rajkosto> just accelerometer you miss any rotations that are in the plane of gravity
2019-04-18T03:21:21 < rajkosto> and its super laggy
2019-04-18T03:21:30 < Cracki> eh
2019-04-18T03:21:44 < ds2> there are better ways of seperating it but a LPF will work
2019-04-18T03:21:54 < rajkosto> lpf on accelerometer is what makes it laggy
2019-04-18T03:21:57 < ds2> and fixed point can work
2019-04-18T03:22:10 < ds2> rajkosto, yes
2019-04-18T03:22:11 < Cracki> implementation detail
2019-04-18T03:22:32 < ds2> there are lower lag ways. that's why I am saying LPF is a brute force approach
2019-04-18T03:22:40 < rajkosto> anyway madgwick is best algo just use it
2019-04-18T03:22:56 < Cracki> alright, assume your sensor is spinning at 1 revolution per second
2019-04-18T03:23:02 < ds2> the free android code does a LPF using a IIR
2019-04-18T03:23:19 < rajkosto> (madgwick requires 6 axis or 9 axis)
2019-04-18T03:24:31 < ds2> if you need to approach 0 lag, it requires more then just slapping a gyro on there
2019-04-18T03:24:50 < rajkosto> the gyro is pretty nice nad responsive you only fuse with accelerometer to remov drift
2019-04-18T03:25:31 < ds2> gyros are horrible wrt to drift and offset
2019-04-18T03:26:37 < ds2> oh and gyros are horrible for power consumption
2019-04-18T03:27:12 < rajkosto> 950 MICROAMPS
2019-04-18T03:27:22 < ds2> compared to an accel?
2019-04-18T03:28:06 < ds2> i suspect for slower moving things mag + acc is better (in terms of simplicity vs functionality)
2019-04-18T03:28:07 < rajkosto> you can fly a robot with gyro tho, cant do anything with accelerometer only except detect some taps and maybe laggy screen orientation
2019-04-18T03:29:18 < ds2> an acc is sufficient for a lot of things - 'human movement speeds'
2019-04-18T03:30:36 < mawk> when I power the nucleo32 through 5V pin with 5V from usb the usb doesn't enumerate on pc side; if I power it with stlink it works; if I power it with the 7-12V pin which I did by mistake it works too
2019-04-18T03:31:14 < mawk> there is something fishy
2019-04-18T03:33:09 < ds2> mawk: is there a jumper?
2019-04-18T03:33:39 < mawk> no, no jumper on the whole board
2019-04-18T03:33:44 < mawk> you do everything with solder bridges
2019-04-18T03:33:52 < mawk> and I touched none
2019-04-18T03:34:35 < ds2> does it work on another PC?
2019-04-18T03:37:47 < mawk> no, the code doesn't run on the core
2019-04-18T03:38:27 < mawk> it's something about power I guess
2019-04-18T03:39:29 < mawk> but since it works with VIN instead of 5V I don't know
2019-04-18T03:39:44 < mawk> maybe a solder bridge to tweak that's not clearly mentionned in the datasheet
2019-04-18T03:39:47 < ds2> does the nucleo have 2 USB ports like the discovery?
2019-04-18T03:39:53 < mawk> it's nucleo32*
2019-04-18T03:39:57 < mawk> the tiny tiny one
2019-04-18T03:40:00 < mawk> so it has 0 usb ports
2019-04-18T03:40:09 < mawk> well 1 usb port, for the stlink
2019-04-18T03:40:19 < mawk> but doesn't count as usb
2019-04-18T03:40:40 < mawk> https://pix.watch/zvPrGo/7U1lOJ.jpeg
2019-04-18T03:40:41 < mawk> it's this
2019-04-18T03:41:34 < con3> for some reason the isdg is kicking me out of stop mode
2019-04-18T03:47:41 < mawk> but for usual nucleo ds2 no
2019-04-18T03:47:56 < mawk> nucleo-64 still has 0 usb port, just one mini usb for stlink
2019-04-18T03:48:06 < mawk> and nucleo-144, the big one, has 1 user usb port (that can't provide power)
2019-04-18T03:48:10 < mawk> and one mini usb for stlink
2019-04-18T03:48:15 < mawk> micro-usb sorry
2019-04-18T03:48:27 < mawk> only nucleo-64 decided to use mini-usb for some unknown reason
2019-04-18T03:48:35 < mawk> but they have application notes for converting to usb-cf
2019-04-18T03:48:38 < mawk> usb-c
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2019-04-18T04:19:16 <@englishman> who would I go to if I wanted to buy 500-1k shitberreypi compute modules/year
2019-04-18T04:26:26 < karlp> farnell? I'm guessing that's not enough for the foundation to be interested in.
2019-04-18T04:26:30 < karlp> but askk them both?
2019-04-18T04:28:53 < ds2> why bother with shitberries?
2019-04-18T04:29:28 <@englishman> what else is there
2019-04-18T04:29:39 < ds2> always the beagles 
2019-04-18T04:29:45 <@englishman> not even close
2019-04-18T04:29:52 < mawk> compute module is special format ds2 
2019-04-18T04:29:54 < ds2> what are you doing with the compute modules?
2019-04-18T04:30:01 <@englishman> lunix shit
2019-04-18T04:30:09 < ds2> mawk: yes... the beagles have a BGA version
2019-04-18T04:30:12 < mawk> the best kind of shit
2019-04-18T04:30:15 < ds2> englishman: the beagles run linux
2019-04-18T04:30:16 < mawk> ah I didn't know
2019-04-18T04:30:30 < mawk> beagles are nice, if you substract the dirty ethernet phy bug
2019-04-18T04:30:39 < ds2> then change the phy out :D
2019-04-18T04:30:47 < mawk> yeah for a dozen boards, but not for 1k
2019-04-18T04:30:57 < ds2> I've done custom ones with a GigE phy
2019-04-18T04:30:58 < mawk> there are software fixes but it takes time
2019-04-18T04:31:05 < ds2> for 1K, just do a custom run
2019-04-18T04:31:10 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-18T04:31:11 <@englishman> wut
2019-04-18T04:31:22 <@englishman> the point of cm3 is you don't have to fuck with shit
2019-04-18T04:31:41 <@englishman> anyway etherdicks isn't needed
2019-04-18T04:31:42 < ds2> http://www.hy-research.com/CardVKS/ <--- customized using the BGA
2019-04-18T04:32:13 < ds2> at 1K, you got lots of options
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2019-04-18T05:00:29 < mawk> I found the issue with nucleo32 and usb powering
2019-04-18T05:00:39 < mawk> it was the NRST floating
2019-04-18T05:00:57 < mawk> so my assumption was correct, not clear enough instructions on how to power externally in the DS
2019-04-18T05:01:06 < mawk> I had to review solder bridges one by one
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2019-04-18T05:24:31 < mawk> so I must indeed butcher the board and remove the NRST solder bridge
2019-04-18T05:24:41 < mawk> but there's no exposed pin to make a jumper to put it back after
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2019-04-18T05:24:54 < mawk> and they have a NC pin on a debug header ! they should have at least put it here
2019-04-18T05:25:27 < mawk> on the SWD connector of stlinks normally you have swclk, swdio, gnd, Vapp, nrst, and sometimes swo
2019-04-18T05:27:00 < mawk> so no power by user usb for me yet
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2019-04-18T06:48:02 < ds2> no pull ups on that line?
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2019-04-18T08:54:10 < qyx> I found my recurring interrupt issue, USART_SR_OVR flag
2019-04-18T08:54:24 < qyx> *ORE
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2019-04-18T09:11:54 < PaulFertser>         /* fuck you ST */
2019-04-18T09:11:54 < PaulFertser>         #undef USART_IT_ORE
2019-04-18T09:11:54 < PaulFertser>         #define USART_IT_ORE                         ((uint16_t)(3<<8) | (1<<5) | 5) /* 3rd SR bit, IT enabled if CR1 has 5th (RXNEIE) bit set */
2019-04-18T09:17:25 < qyx> whats USART_IT
2019-04-18T09:19:04 < qyx> I don't understand, 3rd bit is not included
2019-04-18T09:19:38 < qyx> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009XkgxgSAB/bug-in-usartgetitstatus-re-usartitore
2019-04-18T09:19:43 < qyx>  The hardware indeed appears to work that way, as I do indeed get ORE interrupts when only RXNEIE is enabled.
2019-04-18T09:19:48 < qyx> yeah, he is right
2019-04-18T09:22:26 < qyx> I didn't enable EIE and I am still getting overrun interrupt
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2019-04-18T09:38:33  * PaulFertser learnt it the hard way
2019-04-18T09:39:54 < PaulFertser> (my code was from f1)
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2019-04-18T11:09:20 < qyx> it seems to be fixed now, the other problem is why overflow occurs
2019-04-18T11:09:58 < kakimir> PaulFertser: 
2019-04-18T11:10:00 < qyx> not saying I was not expecting it, it is F411 running on 16MHz with GPRS modem on 115200
2019-04-18T11:10:12 < kakimir> This is with reset_config none
2019-04-18T11:10:28 < kakimir> Warn : VECTRESET is not supported on this Cortex-M core, using SYSRESETREQ instead.                                                                                                                                                          Warn : Set 'cortex_m reset_config sysresetreq'.                                                                                                                             
2019-04-18T11:10:34 < kakimir>                                                                  Error: DP initialisation failed                                                                                                                                                                                                              TARGET: xmc1100.cpu - Not halted  
2019-04-18T11:11:21 < kakimir> also after that debugger loses contact to target
2019-04-18T11:11:28 < kakimir> permanently until power cycled
2019-04-18T11:16:06 < zyp> have you considered setting that reset_config that the warning suggests?
2019-04-18T11:16:33 < kakimir> oh it suggest changing it :O
2019-04-18T11:16:51 < kakimir> I read it like "this doesn't work, i'll try this for you"
2019-04-18T11:17:19 < zyp> oh, yeah, maybe it did it for you also
2019-04-18T11:17:40 < zyp> changing it might just silence the warning
2019-04-18T11:18:02 < kakimir> true
2019-04-18T11:18:13 < kakimir> confirmed
2019-04-18T11:18:33 < kakimir> so let me tell you about what it did with srst_only srst_nogate
2019-04-18T11:19:33 < kakimir> first time I started debug session it got all way to loading the firmware to target
2019-04-18T11:19:44 < kakimir> actually I have the target running now
2019-04-18T11:20:17 < kakimir> this is the point where debug session stops:
2019-04-18T11:20:34 < kakimir> Info : no flash patch comparator unit available for hardware breakpointError: can't add breakpoint: resource not available
2019-04-18T11:21:11 < zyp> haha
2019-04-18T11:21:40 < kakimir> after first time it got binary in all it says then is target not halted
2019-04-18T11:21:55 < kakimir> it's running free now
2019-04-18T11:23:44 < kakimir> hey
2019-04-18T11:24:05 < kakimir> can I add to gdb attach something that disables periodic interrupt in the target
2019-04-18T11:24:31 < kakimir> clock should stop but hmm
2019-04-18T11:25:00 < kakimir> yeah the clock is in debug mode... interrupts should stop
2019-04-18T11:26:14 < qyx> a generic timer? or what is periodic interrupt, systick?
2019-04-18T11:26:30 < kakimir> it's hmm
2019-04-18T11:26:42 < qyx> cannot you simply write enable=0 in the right register in the openocd script?
2019-04-18T11:26:50 < qyx> *to
2019-04-18T11:27:21 < kakimir> it's systick boi
2019-04-18T11:27:43 < kakimir> qyx: I'm noob I don't know where to even start
2019-04-18T11:29:56 < kakimir> it didn't cause any trouble using xmc 2go with integrated jlink lite in segger mode
2019-04-18T11:30:46 < kakimir> as I don't have any reset to the target
2019-04-18T11:31:10 < kakimir> I should prepaire target somehow in event gdb_attach
2019-04-18T11:33:47 < kakimir> maybe just halt :o
2019-04-18T11:34:58 < kakimir> then MSP = flash offset 0x0 and PC = flash offset 0x4
2019-04-18T11:35:02 < kakimir> how about that?
2019-04-18T11:35:31 < kakimir> tell me how to do that!
2019-04-18T11:35:42 < qyx> I'll send you a rubber duck
2019-04-18T11:36:08 < qyx> you can continue with VERBOSE=1
2019-04-18T11:36:14 < qyx> and it will solve itself over time
2019-04-18T11:37:06 < jly> I'll put my hand up for a duck too
2019-04-18T11:38:42 < Rajko> i need a duck that responds
2019-04-18T11:41:44 < kakimir> ##rubberduck32
2019-04-18T11:42:52 < Rajko> isnt that the point of most irc chans, especially the ones with mostly idlers
2019-04-18T11:43:19 < kakimir> challenge is to provoke them and solve the problem both at same time
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2019-04-18T11:51:45 < kakimir> I need to learn how to make a variable in TCL
2019-04-18T11:52:15 < kakimir> for loading initial MSP to
2019-04-18T12:00:30 < jly> You know what you look like to me, with your good bag and your cheap shoes?
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2019-04-18T12:40:03 < mitrax> jly: a rube
2019-04-18T12:40:21 < mitrax> jly: a well scrubbed hustling rube with a little taste
2019-04-18T12:41:42 < Thorn> are HU/WF connectors popular?
2019-04-18T12:55:54 < kakimir> I bought better shoes okay?
2019-04-18T12:55:59 < kakimir> still cheap
2019-04-18T12:58:21 < mitrax> kakimir: thff-ff-ff-ff
2019-04-18T13:03:58 < Steffanx> You strike me as someone wearing sandals with socks kakimir
2019-04-18T13:04:38 < mitrax> says the dutchman
2019-04-18T13:05:00 < Steffanx> Just socks here.
2019-04-18T13:06:52 < mitrax> my bad, it's a german thing
2019-04-18T13:06:54 < qyx> lol we says mostly czechs are wearing socks with sandals
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2019-04-18T13:06:58 < qyx> *say
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2019-04-18T13:24:13 < Steffanx> :)
2019-04-18T13:29:52 < Thorn> why are unlicensed bands so narrow
2019-04-18T13:30:01 < Thorn> why not allocate 2...3GHz for wifi etc.
2019-04-18T13:30:16 < Thorn> who is using the rest and how important that crap is
2019-04-18T13:33:26 < emeryth> you get what you pay for
2019-04-18T13:33:52 < Cracki> can't intersect existing licensed bands. getting a big chunk is gonna be hard
2019-04-18T13:33:58 < Cracki> remember how they fought over UMTS?
2019-04-18T13:34:17 < Cracki> remember radio broadcast tv?
2019-04-18T13:34:33 < Rajko> Thorn, it costs billions to get a band from the government
2019-04-18T13:34:47 < Rajko> why would they give it for free to the populace instead of selling it to mobile networks
2019-04-18T13:35:09 < Cracki> and it seems to be nontrivial to find _who_ has what allocated right now
2019-04-18T13:35:48 < Cracki> military probably all over it as well
2019-04-18T13:37:34 < mitrax> Thorn: because https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/United_States_Frequency_Allocations_Chart_2016_-_The_Radio_Spectrum.pdf/page1-6300px-United_States_Frequency_Allocations_Chart_2016_-_The_Radio_Spectrum.pdf.jpg :p
2019-04-18T13:38:27 < mitrax> Thorn: i guess it's about the same mess in europe
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2019-04-18T14:13:02 < Thorn> these allocation charts are completely nonspecific, and most of that stuff is probably unused anyway (especially military)
2019-04-18T14:13:38 < mitrax> i doubt that
2019-04-18T14:22:21 < mitrax> the occupancy for some band is pretty indeed pretty low e.g https://research.utwente.nl/files/5343675/05494056.pdf (page 6), that's just one study in one city though, but that's the issue 'cognitive radio' is supposed to solve
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2019-04-18T14:47:34 < Thorn> interesting but I wouldn't mind to see say 0.8...3 GHz integrated over a few days in a city
2019-04-18T15:09:34 < kakimir> do other world have holidays tommorow and monday?
2019-04-18T15:09:42 < kakimir> I need a debugger fast
2019-04-18T15:10:17 < kakimir> jeez
2019-04-18T15:10:42 < Steffanx> Not tomorrow kakimir. At least its not a freeday for most.
2019-04-18T15:11:02 < kakimir> what holiday it even is? we call it pääsiäinen
2019-04-18T15:11:07 < kakimir> is it about jesus?
2019-04-18T15:11:40 < kakimir> oh resurrection
2019-04-18T15:11:47 < Steffanx> yes
2019-04-18T15:11:55 < Steffanx> We cal it "Pasen". 
2019-04-18T15:12:10 < kakimir> do you pronounce it with o a or ä
2019-04-18T15:12:16 < kakimir> or ö
2019-04-18T15:12:22 < Steffanx> a
2019-04-18T15:12:29 < Steffanx> or ä  :P
2019-04-18T15:12:41 < Steffanx> let me see what google translate says
2019-04-18T15:12:43 < mitrax> kakimir: here (France) those two days are holidays, but tomorrow is only in the area i'm in, not for the rest of france
2019-04-18T15:13:27 < kakimir> is farnell fast?
2019-04-18T15:13:33 < Steffanx> You say it (kinda) exactly like how google translate says "pääsen", kakimir
2019-04-18T15:13:56 < Steffanx> Yes farnell is fast.
2019-04-18T15:13:58 < kakimir> does it mean anything?
2019-04-18T15:14:00 < Steffanx> Often next day.
2019-04-18T15:14:21 < Steffanx> What means anything? 
2019-04-18T15:14:26 < kakimir> dope
2019-04-18T15:15:01 < Steffanx> Note: In dutchland it's next day, not sure about the finnishland
2019-04-18T15:17:27 < kakimir> I don't know if I actually gain anything from XMC LINK compared to abused xmc 2go
2019-04-18T15:17:40 < zyp> here it's a holiday both today, tomorrow and monday
2019-04-18T15:17:49 < zyp> we call it påske
2019-04-18T15:18:00 < kakimir> it just adds isolation and srst maybe. debugger chip is the same
2019-04-18T15:18:12 < kakimir> even the schematic in that part is same
2019-04-18T15:18:39 < kakimir> I have hard time believing I have fried my abused xmc 2go
2019-04-18T15:19:11 < kakimir> lines go active if I look with a scope
2019-04-18T15:19:28 < kakimir> it just stops working and I solder next xmc 2go to voltage dividers
2019-04-18T15:19:51 < Steffanx> Holiday as in free from work day, zyp?
2019-04-18T15:20:02 < zyp> yes
2019-04-18T15:20:22 < Steffanx> :)
2019-04-18T15:24:00 < Steffanx> Thanks to your christian background mcuh
2019-04-18T15:24:25 < kakimir> funland has a lot of nice holidays
2019-04-18T15:24:47 < kakimir> if it's about jesus or finland it's holiday
2019-04-18T15:29:20 < kakimir> PaulFertser: can I send you xmc 2go?
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2019-04-18T15:30:19 < PaulFertser> kakimir: so that I can see for myself what's happening? Well, postage here can take really long time, a month or two :(
2019-04-18T15:30:36 < kakimir> where?
2019-04-18T15:30:50 < kakimir> south europe? east europe?
2019-04-18T15:30:51 < PaulFertser> kakimir: russia, heh
2019-04-18T15:30:56 < PaulFertser> Your neighbour
2019-04-18T15:31:01 < kakimir> I didn't know it's so slow
2019-04-18T15:31:17 < PaulFertser> It depends, it might be fast, it might be slow, one can't tell in advance.
2019-04-18T15:31:23 < kakimir> that sounds more like it
2019-04-18T15:31:35 < Steffanx> Sounds like the average china package experience
2019-04-18T15:31:38 < kakimir> you have cabin in middle of siberia?
2019-04-18T15:31:39 < PaulFertser> And you can't use dhl or something like that easily due to customs.
2019-04-18T15:31:52 < PaulFertser> kakimir: lol, no, an apartement in moscow.
2019-04-18T15:31:58 < Steffanx> Are they still bullying russia?
2019-04-18T15:32:10 < PaulFertser> Who they?
2019-04-18T15:32:57 < PaulFertser> The worst enemy of russia is the russians, alas.
2019-04-18T15:33:11 < Steffanx> oh custom, nevermind. It's your own customs ofcourse
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2019-04-18T15:36:38 < PaulFertser> Moreover, when the US and EU outlawed some of the russian "businessmen" the russian government prohibited their own citizens buying cheese and some other food from EU. Go figure. We even have a proverb that goes like: "If /they/ do /something/ we'll go bomb Voronezh" (Voronezh is a russian town).
2019-04-18T15:40:08 < kakimir> if I have any xmc 2gos left after this PaulFertser I send you one
2019-04-18T15:40:24 < kakimir> also maybe something else idk
2019-04-18T15:41:09 < aandrew> heh weird
2019-04-18T15:41:55 < aandrew> so I have 9 of these boards I've designed. stm32 on swd, fpga + 2x clkgen + gige phy on JTAG
2019-04-18T15:42:20 < aandrew> I like an idiot tried to share swd+jtag and routed swdck/tck on on inner layer so I can't separate them easily
2019-04-18T15:42:24 < aandrew> anyway
2019-04-18T15:42:43 < aandrew> 3 of the 9 boards have odd issues that I'm 99% certain are related to the assembly (bad reflow)
2019-04-18T15:43:20 < zyp> sharing didn't work out well?
2019-04-18T15:43:21 <@englishman> nice
2019-04-18T15:43:22 < aandrew> one of the issues is that the jtag chain works, and swd also works, but the stm32 appears "locked" and jlink can unlock but can't program (some weird RAM issue)
2019-04-18T15:43:34 < aandrew> zyp: well it works in the sense that you can use one or the other
2019-04-18T15:44:02 < aandrew> but my myopic routing brain didn't think "gee I might want to watch the FPGA with SignalTap while debugging the STM32"
2019-04-18T15:44:57 < zyp> ah, makes sense
2019-04-18T15:45:35 < zyp> I mean, in theory it should work if you've got a tool that supports it
2019-04-18T15:45:43 < zyp> of course no real world tools do
2019-04-18T15:45:56 < PaulFertser> kakimir: ok :)
2019-04-18T15:47:47 < marble_visions> aandrew: cool design
2019-04-18T15:48:01 < marble_visions> why'd you need two clkgens for?
2019-04-18T15:48:15 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/XUgMlsD
2019-04-18T15:48:57 < aandrew> basically one channel of the FT2232 is JTAG/SWD and control of the design, the other is a serial port/SWO
2019-04-18T15:49:43 < aandrew> marble_visions: well they're used more as skew control than clock gens
2019-04-18T15:50:18 < aandrew> I have a 10MHz clock and a 125MHz clock whose edges have to occur at the same point in time with 5 devices varying (but fixed) distances away
2019-04-18T15:50:35 < aandrew> the clk gens are used to skew the individual clocks to each of those devices so the edges arrive at the same point
2019-04-18T15:51:31 < marble_visions> wow, so it's not a general purpose devkit-like design
2019-04-18T15:51:42 < aandrew> but back to my story: one of those three oddball boards suddenly started working while I was using signaltap with the ftdi and jlink with the swd port
2019-04-18T15:51:51 < aandrew> tried recreating the success again with the other boards and no go
2019-04-18T15:52:00 < aandrew> I'll have to reflow the stm32 again on them I think
2019-04-18T15:54:37 < aandrew> marble_visions: nope not devkit at all; purpose-built design
2019-04-18T15:55:34 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/aa6a52P
2019-04-18T15:58:13 < marble_visions> nice
2019-04-18T15:58:28 < marble_visions> what chip's missing top right? 
2019-04-18T15:58:49 < aandrew> so many tiny little issues with the design though 
2019-04-18T15:58:52 < aandrew> oh that's the FT2232 :-)
2019-04-18T16:01:18 < aandrew> PaulFertser: this is the design where i had questions about data/ndata in the other chan
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2019-04-18T16:02:59 < marble_visions> my hw coworker has made such a co-design that we are currently selling, seems like ours doesn't have any issues, if you've got questions i can relay
2019-04-18T16:03:14 < veverak> hmm
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2019-04-18T16:03:38 < veverak> let's say I have STM32 MCU that receives a plan for what it shall do from ARM PC that is near it
2019-04-18T16:03:44 < veverak> how would you do time sync?
2019-04-18T16:04:01 < qyx> PaulFertser: is Voronezh special in anything specific?
2019-04-18T16:04:31 < veverak> STM32 controls robot's hardware ( sends control to motors/servos and receives data from sensors)
2019-04-18T16:04:41 < veverak> ARM PC does the heavy calculations and plan of motion
2019-04-18T16:04:50 < veverak> so, I would like to synchronize 'time' between those cpu
2019-04-18T16:05:06 < qyx> uhm usb?
2019-04-18T16:05:28 < qyx> zyp knows
2019-04-18T16:06:47 < Thorn> qyx: one of them is from Voronezh https://animechan.me/uploads/posts/2012-04/1333335713_1a517045b894fbee5097ad8bd60dbb38.jpg
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2019-04-18T16:12:11 < mawk> there are several well established protocols for timesync like this veverak 
2019-04-18T16:12:24 < mawk> every manufacturer should have ANs on that
2019-04-18T16:13:16 < PaulFertser> qyx: do you remember how russia participated in a war with Georgia about 10 years ago? After that plenty of money went into "South Osetia" (part of Georgia under russian control). One of Voronezh local MPs said "let's bomb Voronezh, we'll at least build some roads here" (because Osetia was receiving much more federal money after bombings than Voronezh at that time).
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2019-04-18T16:20:07 < veverak> mawk: ANs ?
2019-04-18T16:20:16 < mawk> application notes
2019-04-18T16:23:13 < zyp> veverak, I've got a 3d printer project with a design like that
2019-04-18T16:23:27 < veverak> mawk: I see
2019-04-18T16:23:29 < veverak> zyp: do tell
2019-04-18T16:24:23 < zyp> currently it's only running with a single microcontroller, but the plan is to distribute it across several
2019-04-18T16:24:38 < zyp> my plan was to use the USB SOF mechanism to sync them
2019-04-18T16:26:35 < zyp> FS USB sends a SOF token every millisecond with a frame number, so I figured I'll transfer the motion data first, then tell each device «start executing at frame number x»
2019-04-18T16:33:51 < mawk> so it's mandatory for usb fs ?
2019-04-18T16:33:59 < zyp> SOF? yes
2019-04-18T16:34:02 < mawk> why is it a checkbox in cubemx
2019-04-18T16:34:03 < mawk> yes
2019-04-18T16:34:21 < zyp> I presume it's mandatory for any usb speed, although at different rates
2019-04-18T16:34:33 < Steffanx> Isnt the checkbox some SOF output pin thing?
2019-04-18T16:34:36 < zyp> not sure about LS
2019-04-18T16:34:41 < mawk> yeah for HS it's 125us
2019-04-18T16:34:52 < zyp> yes
2019-04-18T16:34:56 < mawk> but it's hosts that are supposed to send it Steffanx 
2019-04-18T16:35:05 < Steffanx> yes ofcourse
2019-04-18T16:35:13 < zyp> yeah, but the device core detects it and outputs a pulse
2019-04-18T16:35:17 < zyp> so you can use it for syncing
2019-04-18T16:35:21 < mawk> ah, I see
2019-04-18T16:35:31 < zyp> it's also possible to pipe it to one of the timers internally
2019-04-18T16:35:54 < mawk> I'm sure timers are nearly turing complete
2019-04-18T16:36:04 < mawk> but does not beat the routing stuff of nRF52
2019-04-18T16:37:40 < zyp> nrf52 has a SOF event :)
2019-04-18T16:38:17 < zyp> and also a FRAMECNTR register with the current frame number
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2019-04-18T16:40:53 < Steffanx> So after messing with wireshark at all and not seeing what i expected i decided to buy a beagle on ebay zyp :) Someone on ebay wanted to get rid of a beagle 480 power protocol analyzer for not too much.
2019-04-18T16:41:20 < zyp> cool, how much?
2019-04-18T16:41:21 < Steffanx> *+usb somewhere in the device name
2019-04-18T16:41:58 < Steffanx> 800 something euro bucks. Still a lot of money perhaps, but still cheaper than a new one.
2019-04-18T16:42:18 < zyp> yeah
2019-04-18T16:42:22 < Steffanx> And i have uses at work too.
2019-04-18T16:42:40 < zyp> apparently the power one is over twice as expensive as the plain 480
2019-04-18T16:42:48 < zyp> so that sounds like a decent deal
2019-04-18T16:43:02 < Steffanx> i have the "simple" one. So no fancy triggering
2019-04-18T16:43:19 < Steffanx> Only the ultimate and usb 3.0 one can do that it seems
2019-04-18T16:43:23 < zyp> oh, there's two of them
2019-04-18T16:43:46 < zyp> still a decent deal
2019-04-18T16:45:18 < kakimir> what does change between blank chip and programmed chip so that debugger says not halted
2019-04-18T16:45:59 < Steffanx> although the triggering is just a firmware/license update. better get hacking.
2019-04-18T16:46:00 < zyp> kakimir, well, it gets code to execute instead of just going straight into lockup when it tries executing
2019-04-18T16:46:21 < kakimir> to usagefault?
2019-04-18T16:46:45 < kakimir> but then
2019-04-18T16:47:04 < kakimir> it access address of main stack pointer?
2019-04-18T16:47:27 < kakimir> resulting in what fault?
2019-04-18T16:48:21 < aandrew> PaulFertser: (re Voronezh) gotta get that government money any way you can :-)
2019-04-18T16:48:25 < zyp> not sure the exact fault sequence, but if all vectors are 0xffffffff there's no fault handlers to execute, so ultimately handling hardfault will fail and cause lockup
2019-04-18T16:49:24 < kakimir> no it will execute veneers
2019-04-18T16:49:39 < kakimir> it has fixed pointers to start of sram
2019-04-18T16:49:43 < kakimir> vectors
2019-04-18T16:49:51 < zyp> in rom?
2019-04-18T16:49:55 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-18T16:50:00 < zyp> hehe
2019-04-18T16:50:01 < zyp> heh
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2019-04-18T16:50:13 < kakimir> it will execute 0xFFFFFFFF
2019-04-18T16:50:33 < kakimir> every veneer is that when chip is blank
2019-04-18T16:50:38 < zyp> ultimately the end result will be the same then
2019-04-18T16:50:54 < kakimir> so the question is how to crash my app
2019-04-18T16:51:01 < kakimir> prefferably with debugger
2019-04-18T16:51:22 < kakimir> reset_config hardfault
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2019-04-18T16:52:21 < kakimir> but my app has lockup reset set
2019-04-18T16:52:30 < kakimir> no use
2019-04-18T16:53:10 < kakimir> I need to maybe play with adapter_khz a bit
2019-04-18T16:53:27 < kakimir> flashing was successful for blank chip with default 1000
2019-04-18T16:53:37 < kakimir> so it's not a line issue
2019-04-18T16:53:50 < kakimir> it's to get that perfect timing
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2019-04-18T17:01:49 < qyx> PaulFertser: aha now I understand
2019-04-18T17:04:37 < aandrew> Steffanx: yeah the beagles are amazing
2019-04-18T17:04:52 < aandrew> there was an OSS one that looked pretty spiff too but it seems to have gone the way of the dodo
2019-04-18T17:04:55 < aandrew> can't remember the name of it offhand
2019-04-18T17:04:58 < PaulFertser> qyx: the saying was picked up and is now commonly used ironically to refer to government actions that harm only their own people and do nothing to the imaginary "enemies of russia".
2019-04-18T17:05:01 < aandrew> and ran across it completely at random
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2019-04-18T17:08:05 < qyx> PaulFertser: russia seems to be a weird nation in this regard
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2019-04-18T17:36:41 < Steffanx> Vizsla aandrew
2019-04-18T17:36:56 < Steffanx> Another dog
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2019-04-18T17:52:42  * Thorn deletes altium disaster
2019-04-18T17:52:50 < dongs> lol allright
2019-04-18T17:52:54 < dongs> go back to what, kikecad?
2019-04-18T17:53:07 < Thorn> to altium disaster 19 :(
2019-04-18T17:53:21 < dongs> didnt 19 crash on startup
2019-04-18T17:53:23 < dongs> because its beta garbage
2019-04-18T17:53:26 < dongs> i didnt bohre installer
2019-04-18T17:53:29 < dongs> installing
2019-04-18T17:53:53 < dongs> i still want to know what the FUCK happened to 'hide and connect to net' feature of pin
2019-04-18T17:54:00 < dongs> since they switched to the fucking retardo sidebar its gone
2019-04-18T17:54:11 < dongs> the only way to activate it is use smart paste and add those 2 columns
2019-04-18T17:54:24 < dongs> so the metadata is obviously there but UI isn;t
2019-04-18T17:54:42 < Thorn> seems to work for me. I finished, exported & submitted 2 pcbs done in 18 yesterday
2019-04-18T17:54:58 < Thorn> so I guess 18 is going into Recycle Bin
2019-04-18T17:55:17 < dongs> ah.
2019-04-18T18:02:33 < Steffanx> Warez goes where it belongs?
2019-04-18T18:04:57 -!- boB_K7IQ [boB_K7IQ@c-73-193-6-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2019-04-18T18:05:37 < Thorn> that is definitely where altium belongs 
2019-04-18T18:05:56 < jadew`> where's bitmask, did he get the job?
2019-04-18T18:06:42 < Thorn> dongs: as far as beta goes I think the rutracker releasers are mistaken. they keep labeling it as beta since 18 came out if not earlier. afaik it is the full offline package which is beta, not the software istelf
2019-04-18T18:06:47 < Thorn> jadew`: no
2019-04-18T18:07:02 < jadew`> they called back?
2019-04-18T18:07:23 < Thorn> iirc he said yesterday they went with someone else
2019-04-18T18:07:27 < Steffanx> ^
2019-04-18T18:07:40 < dongs> err wait
2019-04-18T18:07:57 < dongs> youre talkin about 19 okay whoops im too stoned
2019-04-18T18:07:59 < dongs> yeah ive been using that
2019-04-18T18:08:05 < dongs> 18 was deleted long tiem ago
2019-04-18T18:08:25 < dongs> 19 isnt beta, right
2019-04-18T18:08:57 < Thorn> time to use my new chinese scalpel for its intended purpose
2019-04-18T18:09:13 < Thorn> scratch solder mask, cut traces, etc.
2019-04-18T18:09:21 < Steffanx> oh, not removing skin from heads?
2019-04-18T18:09:28 < Thorn> >👍 https://i.imgur.com/bxhM9AO.png
2019-04-18T18:09:33 < Thorn> one would wish
2019-04-18T18:10:18 < dongs> SHIT-DIS
2019-04-18T18:10:39 < dongs> why the fuck are all the shits inputs on that thing
2019-04-18T18:10:46 < dongs> what kinda ass made that symbol
2019-04-18T18:11:09 < jadew`> they moved away from 1-wire?
2019-04-18T18:11:11 < Thorn> me, who else
2019-04-18T18:11:46 < Steffanx> me
2019-04-18T18:13:34 < Thorn> not sure of sensirion or whatever they're called has had any 1-wire products
2019-04-18T18:14:23 < jadew`> ah, I thought they're from the same series with the other xHT-yy ones
2019-04-18T18:14:42 < jadew`> I guess the HT is for humidity/temperature
2019-04-18T18:14:50 < jadew`> and the first letter for something else
2019-04-18T18:15:02 <@englishman> analog discovery SW is pretty meh
2019-04-18T18:15:14 < Steffanx> hm
2019-04-18T18:15:14 <@englishman> pulseview closes immediately after opening
2019-04-18T18:15:21 <@englishman> I guess it's still better than opensores
2019-04-18T18:15:29 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-04-18T18:15:43 < Steffanx> sooores
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2019-04-18T18:17:10 < Steffanx> imagine how you would've felt when it would have worked englishman
2019-04-18T18:25:29 <@englishman> The I2C address is D6 (1101101x)
2019-04-18T18:25:32 <@englishman> thanks TI
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2019-04-18T19:37:59  * invzim self palms
2019-04-18T19:38:08 < invzim> gnd pin not connected in schematics
2019-04-18T19:38:23 < invzim> it's amateur hour here :(
2019-04-18T19:40:44 < qyx> is self palm similar to facepalm?
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2019-04-18T19:52:17 < invzim> it's a self facepalm :)
2019-04-18T19:52:31 < invzim> at least the stm32f722 and surrounding stuff works good
2019-04-18T19:52:54 < invzim> but completely dropped the ball on a STMPS2151STR, wrong pinning and unconnected gnd
2019-04-18T19:53:24 < invzim> anyone done hid HOST with cubemx?
2019-04-18T19:54:08 <@englishman> zyp, what's your source on the 24kWh egolf?
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2019-04-18T19:56:29 < bitmask> o/
2019-04-18T19:58:03 < bitmask> can you guys do me a quick favor and fill out this really quick survey for my gf and her class assignment.  its anonymous and it takes less than a minute, its  13 easy questions about job/life satisfaction
2019-04-18T19:58:10 < bitmask> https://montclair.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_3EFMzVTR6GChl3v
2019-04-18T19:58:15 < bitmask> ty
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2019-04-18T20:29:32 < invzim> allreet, digikey supplier search working in altium 17 again
2019-04-18T20:29:39 < invzim> trick was to uninstall the digikey extension
2019-04-18T20:30:38 < dongs> ? why would you ever use that shit
2019-04-18T20:31:09 < invzim> to make libs that can become a bom in seconds
2019-04-18T20:31:30 < dongs> how does that not already happen when you make components?
2019-04-18T20:32:43 < invzim> no typing, correct part numbers etc etc
2019-04-18T20:32:47 < dongs> k
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2019-04-18T21:01:15 < mawk> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/user_manual/e3/0e/88/05/e8/74/43/a0/DM00231744.pdf/files/DM00231744.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00231744.pdf
2019-04-18T21:01:23 < mawk> schematic is pdf page 34
2019-04-18T21:01:27 < mawk> I will remove solder bridge 9
2019-04-18T21:01:45 < mawk> and that will stop the unpowered stlink from keeping the NRST line down of the stm32 core
2019-04-18T21:01:50 < mawk> right
2019-04-18T21:02:04 < mawk> when powering via 5V and not via the stlink vbus
2019-04-18T21:02:40 < mawk> so then what are the consequences, SW alone can reset in most cases right ? just not if the chip is sleeping or low power mode
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2019-04-18T21:10:32 < mawk> too late I'm doing it, you're too slow
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2019-04-18T21:18:51 < zyp> englishman, well, first of all, I have one :p
2019-04-18T21:19:22 <@englishman> yeah, nothing I've read about the 24kWh model comes close to even displaying 180km
2019-04-18T21:19:42 <@englishman> it apparently has less range than the leaf
2019-04-18T21:20:44 < zyp> what do you mean «displaying»?
2019-04-18T21:20:47 < specing> for reference, 24kWh gets you 2000 km range on a 25 km/h bicycle
2019-04-18T21:21:05 <@englishman> on the dash as a range estimate
2019-04-18T21:21:17 < zyp> in summer mine usually shows 190km when it's fully charged, but then when I've drove a bit it sobers up and gets more reliable
2019-04-18T21:23:21 <@englishman> have you been able to monitor how much energy you put back into it
2019-04-18T21:23:36 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/k8Pdr.jpg <- I think this is the longest I've went on one charge
2019-04-18T21:24:01 < specing> How many moneys is an e-golf?
2019-04-18T21:24:13 < zyp> 12.1 * 157 / 100 is 19 kWh used
2019-04-18T21:24:31 <@englishman> 8.26km/kWh about what I get in the summer
2019-04-18T21:24:41 <@englishman> huh ok
2019-04-18T21:24:59 < zyp> IIRC the battery is 24-ish gross, 21 point something usable
2019-04-18T21:25:17 <@englishman> I guess I just drive too fast
2019-04-18T21:25:35 < zyp> screenshot shows 19 kWh used and 1.21 kWh remaining
2019-04-18T21:25:45 < zyp> plus some margins, and that seems right on point
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2019-04-18T21:26:34 < malinus> I never understood the electrical car. Cheapest one (used) costs 5x times more than my car, and has less utility. But I'm living in the second highest ranking country in car-prices, so I guess it's different for you guys
2019-04-18T21:27:25 < zyp> malinus, what country?
2019-04-18T21:27:27 < mawk> it's about pleasing the planet, you don't understand
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2019-04-18T21:27:37 < malinus> zyp: dk
2019-04-18T21:27:40 < zyp> ah
2019-04-18T21:27:55 < zyp> what is the highest ranked country?
2019-04-18T21:28:12 < malinus> singapore last I've checked. 
2019-04-18T21:28:35 < malinus> But the difference wasn't that big on used cars last I've checked
2019-04-18T21:28:39 < zyp> I think norway is pretty high up
2019-04-18T21:28:41 < zyp> too
2019-04-18T21:28:48 < specing> Its because fossil fuels are too cheap, the cars are too big and the speed limits are too high
2019-04-18T21:29:13 < specing> an electric rickshaw would be enough for all with 50km/h cap
2019-04-18T21:29:28 < specing> 400kg vehicle with 10kWh max battery
2019-04-18T21:29:37 < specing> maybe even just 200kg
2019-04-18T21:29:54 < zyp> the thing in norway is that EVs are exempt from both VAT and other fees, so that exempt probably shaves off a third of what they would have cost otherwise
2019-04-18T21:30:16 < specing> Just today I learned that my country's ministry of infrastructure estimates car externalities to be 3500 eur per car per year
2019-04-18T21:30:19 < malinus> zyp: norway is still around 60% compared to us from what I can see
2019-04-18T21:30:28 < malinus> maybe 70% 
2019-04-18T21:30:51 < specing> so fuel prices would have to be 5 times higher than they are today to cover the externalities
2019-04-18T21:31:03 < zyp> electricity is also a lot cheaper in norway than in denmark
2019-04-18T21:31:04 < specing> sorry, 5 eur per liter
2019-04-18T21:31:26 < zyp> gasoline is like five times the cost of electricity per km driven
2019-04-18T21:31:40 < specing> yes, but it should be 25 times the cost
2019-04-18T21:31:52 < specing> gasoline is still hilariously cheap for the damage it causes
2019-04-18T21:32:38 < malinus> zyp: I can't even find my car used in norway, because the cars are so cheap nobody would drive such an old car, haha
2019-04-18T21:32:46 < zyp> malinus, what car?
2019-04-18T21:32:55 < malinus> fiat punto mk2 2004
2019-04-18T21:33:20 < malinus> *03 
2019-04-18T21:33:26 < zyp> heh, there's a total of seven fiat puntos for sale in norway at the moment :p
2019-04-18T21:33:41 < zyp> https://www.finn.no/car/used/ad.html?finnkode=139057769 <- something like this?
2019-04-18T21:33:49 < malinus> yes
2019-04-18T21:34:12 < malinus> zyp: 905 fiat puntos for sale in denmark ;)
2019-04-18T21:34:51 < malinus> could probably buy a new golf for the price of a 10 year old punto, in sweden
2019-04-18T21:35:03 < zyp> my impression is that denmark has a hard-on for small cars
2019-04-18T21:35:27 < zyp> caused by the way your car taxes are structured
2019-04-18T21:35:29 < malinus> zyp: no, we have a hard-on for not spending €60k on a medium-sized car
2019-04-18T21:35:34 < malinus> yeah
2019-04-18T21:36:04 < zyp> in denmark there's so many vw ups
2019-04-18T21:36:20 < zyp> in norway you hardly see any gasoline ups at all, only a bunch of e-ups
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2019-04-18T21:36:28 < malinus> yup, haha. That's for the poor who want a new car :P
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2019-04-18T21:37:29 < malinus> zyp: it's still 140k SEK ;)
2019-04-18T21:37:51 < zyp> new?
2019-04-18T21:37:54 < malinus> yes
2019-04-18T21:38:14 < malinus> it's basically the cheapest you can get a completly new car
2019-04-18T21:38:16 < zyp> hmm
2019-04-18T21:38:33 < malinus> with basically, I mean, it is the cheapest :)
2019-04-18T21:38:36 < zyp> up starts at 161k NOK here, e-up starts at 181k
2019-04-18T21:38:49 < malinus> hmm
2019-04-18T21:39:01 < zyp> not sure baseline equipment levels are the same though
2019-04-18T21:40:24 < malinus> zyp: I remember fiat punto getting shit a few years back, because it was selling with only one airbag for the driver. In 2014 or so.
2019-04-18T21:40:31 < malinus> in the cheapest setup
2019-04-18T21:40:34 < zyp> haha
2019-04-18T21:40:37 < zyp> is that even legal?
2019-04-18T21:41:05 < malinus> not now, not sure if it was legal then
2019-04-18T21:41:17 < zyp> hmm
2019-04-18T21:41:44 < zyp> e-golf starts at 335k now, I think it was like 265k when I bought mine
2019-04-18T21:41:57 < zyp> paid 290k with all the equipment
2019-04-18T21:42:17 < zyp> standard golf starts at 322k
2019-04-18T21:42:31 < malinus> still a lot of money for a car. Could be working 3 years 30/h/week instead :P
2019-04-18T21:42:40 < malinus> or something like that
2019-04-18T21:42:59 < Thorn> microsurgery successful, sht30 works
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2019-04-18T21:54:44 < mawk> removing that solder bridge worked, yipee
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2019-04-18T21:56:30 < catphish-1> morning
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2019-04-18T21:58:05 < catphish> how does one obtain the stm32 header files?
2019-04-18T21:58:29 < catphish> i've not compiled anything in a while and forgotten how :(
2019-04-18T21:59:18 < catphish> oh, here i guess https://www.st.com/en/embedded-software/stm32cubel4.html
2019-04-18T22:00:32 < Thorn> how do I print a binary fixed point number (with 16 fractional bits) as decimal?
2019-04-18T22:02:01 < ds2> printf("%d.%d", (num)/(1>>16), (num)%(1>>16));? or something like it?
2019-04-18T22:02:21 < ds2> might need to play with 0 padding
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2019-04-18T22:05:40 < Thorn> num >> 16 works for the integer part but num & 0xffff doesn't seem to work for fractional part
2019-04-18T22:11:42 < Thorn> for example if num & 0xffff = 22140 it means the fractional part is 22140/65536 = 0.3378
2019-04-18T22:12:19 < Thorn> so how do I get that 3378 by integer operations only?
2019-04-18T22:13:25 < Thorn> if I just >> 16 it I'll get 0 obviously
2019-04-18T22:14:34 < ds2> what about - 22140 * 10000 / 65536?
2019-04-18T22:14:41 < ds2> scale it up first
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2019-04-18T22:20:52 < Thorn> that might work
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2019-04-18T22:27:04 < Thorn> yeah seems to be working, thanks
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2019-04-18T23:23:55 <@englishman> malinus: before i bought my electric car i did the math and figured it would pay for itself in energy savings in 3-4 years
2019-04-18T23:24:08 <@englishman> of course i don't live in singapoor where electricity is probably a million bux
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2019-04-18T23:30:12 < kakimir> electricity is generated by gas turbines
2019-04-18T23:31:40 < kakimir> anyone want to have a swing with my xmc1100 debugging?
2019-04-18T23:31:48 < kakimir> I can connect the shiet to rasbi
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2019-04-18T23:33:56 < kakimir> throw them login details
2019-04-18T23:34:34 < kakimir> hmm wat distro still has 0.9.0
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2019-04-18T23:36:30 < kakimir> raspi1 is slow even in terminal..
2019-04-18T23:36:46 < kakimir> it just can't handle anything
2019-04-18T23:37:10 <@englishman> i got stusb4500 to work
2019-04-18T23:37:35 <@englishman> the data i need is available between 84 and 86 milliseconds after a certain flag
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2019-04-18T23:37:54 <@englishman> outside of that window there is garbage data
2019-04-18T23:39:10 < catphish> omg i hate compilers
2019-04-18T23:39:38 < karlp> aandrew:you were remember openvizsla I think, which was, and appears to still be vaporware
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2019-04-18T23:40:50 < PaulFertser> kakimir: I can give it a quick try now
2019-04-18T23:41:07 < kakimir> I need to set up first
2019-04-18T23:41:23 < kakimir> are you busy PaulFertser ?
2019-04-18T23:41:29 < PaulFertser> kakimir: not atm but going to sleep soon
2019-04-18T23:41:35 < kakimir> do you want sudos?
2019-04-18T23:41:58 < kakimir> it's raspi one so there is no time to build anything..
2019-04-18T23:42:06 < kakimir> It would be ready tommorow
2019-04-18T23:42:33 < PaulFertser> kakimir: sudo not needed but building openocd from git can take 10-20 minutes or so on rpi iirc
2019-04-18T23:42:49 < kakimir> you want the latest?
2019-04-18T23:43:00 < kakimir> ofc
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2019-04-18T23:44:56 < kakimir> is there an easy way for me to see what you are doing?
2019-04-18T23:46:06 < zyp> screen
2019-04-18T23:46:28 < zyp> you can have multiple clients attach to the same screen sessions
2019-04-18T23:46:44 < karlp> you can?
2019-04-18T23:46:48  * karlp learns new things.
2019-04-18T23:47:01 < kakimir> zyp: same user?
2019-04-18T23:47:19 < zyp> kakimir, yeah, -x
2019-04-18T23:47:21 < zyp> kakimir, yes
2019-04-18T23:47:25 < zyp> karlp, -x
2019-04-18T23:48:41 < zyp> this channel is small enough there should be enough unique two letter prefixes for anybody, you guys should fight out who gets the right to ka-
2019-04-18T23:49:22 < catphish> spend most of the evening trying to get a hello world to build
2019-04-18T23:49:34 < catphish> now it seems ubuntu's compiler is broken
2019-04-18T23:49:59 < kakimir> I spend most of my evenings to get hello world to flash
2019-04-18T23:50:20 < Cracki> Thorn, ds2, use << instead of >>, then it's better
2019-04-18T23:50:25 < kakimir> catphish: doubt
2019-04-18T23:50:33 < Cracki> also screw that division, just shift right
2019-04-18T23:50:42 < kakimir> I have never seen compiler to fuck up
2019-04-18T23:50:45 < catphish> kakimir: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/newlib/+bug/1767223
2019-04-18T23:50:55 < karlp> fuckk you guys, I had to deal with the zyp/zippe mess, and there was a third too at some point.
2019-04-18T23:50:55 < zyp> catphish, what are you dicking around with?
2019-04-18T23:50:59 < catphish> i get this tasty error: /usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/6.3.1/../../../arm-none-eabi/bin/ld: error: /usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/6.3.1/../../../arm-none-eabi/lib/crt0.o: Conflicting CPU architectures 13/1
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2019-04-18T23:51:12 < karlp> you're probably fucking up your -L flags.
2019-04-18T23:51:18 < kakimir> interesting
2019-04-18T23:51:28 < karlp> which ubuntu?
2019-04-18T23:51:41 < catphish> "Linux Mint 19.1 Tessa"
2019-04-18T23:51:47 < karlp> there's been many reports of the distro bundled bare metal arm compiles being broken in thhe past
2019-04-18T23:51:52 < catphish> i think that's "bionic"
2019-04-18T23:51:53 < zyp> yeah, this sounds like a classical multilib fuckup
2019-04-18T23:51:54 < karlp> thatðs not ubuntu.
2019-04-18T23:52:01 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-04-18T23:52:03 < karlp> just uninstall it, get the one from arm.
2019-04-18T23:52:13 < catphish> karlp: it's basically ubuntu, and yeah, that's whay i'm about to do
2019-04-18T23:52:20 < karlp> one day the distros will realize they're not always right.
2019-04-18T23:52:31 < kakimir> whatahell
2019-04-18T23:52:33 < karlp> "we changed all these compiler flags because it's not how we do things"
2019-04-18T23:52:38 < karlp> "yeahh, you're wrong"
2019-04-18T23:52:59 < kakimir> I don't want to learn how to use docker
2019-04-18T23:53:33 < catphish> i'll try the arm compiler
2019-04-18T23:53:35 < catphish> then kill myself
2019-04-18T23:53:42 < qyx> there shouild be only redhat, debian, gentoo and slackware
2019-04-18T23:53:50 < zyp> haha
2019-04-18T23:54:00 <@englishman> thats already 4 too many
2019-04-18T23:54:25 < kakimir> catphish: that's the spirit
2019-04-18T23:57:17 -!- icek [~tcger@103.51.238.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2019-04-18T23:58:56 < catphish> the arm compiler isn't gcc, fuck sake
2019-04-18T23:59:48 < qyx> isn't it?
2019-04-18T23:59:50 < kakimir> indeed
2019-04-18T23:59:59 < catphish> qyx: clang
--- Day changed Fri Apr 19 2019
2019-04-19T00:00:13 < kakimir> PaulFertser: I think I don't have the stamina to push the setup for this night
2019-04-19T00:00:15 < mawk> catphish: yes the link you gave
2019-04-19T00:00:32 < mawk> it also has middlewares like usb, touch sensing, freertos
2019-04-19T00:00:53 < mawk> and it has cmsis instance
2019-04-19T00:00:55 < catphish> mawk: yeah that link worked fine, got the headers i needed :)
2019-04-19T00:01:01 < catphish> but my compiler is broken :(
2019-04-19T00:01:16 < mawk> https://developer.arm.com/tools-and-software/open-source-software/developer-tools/gnu-toolchain/gnu-rm/downloads
2019-04-19T00:01:20 < mawk> get one here
2019-04-19T00:01:34 < catphish> ah lovely
2019-04-19T00:01:47 < qyx> did it change or what, I used arm-none-eabi-gcc in the past
2019-04-19T00:01:58 < PaulFertser> kakimir: ping me tomorrow
2019-04-19T00:02:03 < kakimir> ye
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2019-04-19T00:02:33 < mawk> yes it's arm-none-eabi-gcc qyx 
2019-04-19T00:02:59 < PaulFertser> zyp: -x can work with multiuser too if screen is configured appropriately and "addacl" command is used.
2019-04-19T00:03:12 < catphish> yeah the one at mawk's link is gcc :)
2019-04-19T00:04:20 < catphish> yay compiles now
2019-04-19T00:05:03 < zyp> PaulFertser, cool, never tried that
2019-04-19T00:05:33 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-26e2e253.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2019-04-19T00:05:53 < catphish> thanks mawk!
2019-04-19T00:06:21 < kakimir> PaulFertser: do you want me to install anything else?
2019-04-19T00:07:06 < kakimir> what is the deal with this docker stuff
2019-04-19T00:07:23 < kakimir> I search for how to build openocd
2019-04-19T00:07:25 < zyp> why do you care about docker?
2019-04-19T00:07:33 < kakimir> I don't
2019-04-19T00:08:24 < kakimir> I don't really know what it is some kind of box thing maybe
2019-04-19T00:08:53 < zyp> you can picture it as a lightweight virtual machine
2019-04-19T00:09:07 < kakimir> why I want it with openocd?
2019-04-19T00:09:14 < zyp> no idea, why do you?
2019-04-19T00:09:45 < kakimir> https://github.com/gnu-mcu-eclipse/openocd-build/
2019-04-19T00:09:53 < jpa-> some people want docker because they think it is easier to manage 10 linux installations than 1
2019-04-19T00:09:54 < kakimir> Go to prerequisites
2019-04-19T00:10:25 < zyp> ah, just for the build environment
2019-04-19T00:10:32 < kakimir> wait
2019-04-19T00:10:55 < kakimir> can I just configure make make install ?
2019-04-19T00:11:11 < kakimir> I just try to find what libs to install
2019-04-19T00:11:15 < zyp> assuming you have a suitable build environment already, I assume so
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2019-04-19T00:11:51 < zyp> I guess the point of docker in this case is so they can just grab a premade image with a working build environment
2019-04-19T00:12:02 < kakimir> make probs complains if I dont have something installed
2019-04-19T00:12:35 < zyp> jpa-, the thing I like about docker is that you don't have to manage the installations :p
2019-04-19T00:13:59 < zyp> at the moment I have seven running containers on my home servers, and I don't have to manage shit :p
2019-04-19T00:14:45 < zyp> sometimes I want a newer version of whatever app is running inside them, and all I have to do is update what image version I want to have running
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2019-04-19T00:19:05 < jadew`> it's not as beneficial for servers
2019-04-19T00:19:24 < zyp> bullshit, that's where it really is beneficial
2019-04-19T00:19:58 < jadew`> on servers, virtualization is appealing because of security concerns
2019-04-19T00:20:06 < jadew`> docker doesn't really solve that
2019-04-19T00:20:31 < jadew`> while a real vm does (to an extent)
2019-04-19T00:20:45 < zyp> both containerization and virtualization gives isolation
2019-04-19T00:20:57 < jadew`> yeah, but not the same type of isolation
2019-04-19T00:21:15 < jadew`> from what I've read it's a lot easier to break out of docker than from a VM
2019-04-19T00:22:09 < PaulFertser> kakimir: you just git clone openocd, install libusb-1.0-dev , autoconf, automake, libtool, pkg-build, texinfo. Then try building. No docker needed.
2019-04-19T00:22:14 < zyp> well, that's natural
2019-04-19T00:22:37 < jadew`> it's more convenient, but if you think you need isolation, just go for a VM
2019-04-19T00:22:43 < zyp> in a VM there's both the VM kernel and the hypervisor between you and the host, in a container there's only the host kernel
2019-04-19T00:24:09 < ds2> in light of spectre and friends, isolation is largely an illusion in either case
2019-04-19T00:24:15 < karlp> if you're dealing with hostile code, you're already fucked
2019-04-19T00:24:24 < karlp> docker and vm are to prevent accidental damage to the peers
2019-04-19T00:24:25 < zyp> not sure how to quantify ease of breaking out though, either is meant to be impossible :)
2019-04-19T00:24:47 < kakimir> PaulFertser: pkg-config?
2019-04-19T00:24:57 < ds2> if isolation is the goal, seperate the HW
2019-04-19T00:25:06 < jadew`> ds2, money is also the goal
2019-04-19T00:25:23 < ds2> protection from peers can be done at the userlevel without all these shannigans
2019-04-19T00:25:24 < jadew`> some might say money is more important than isolation
2019-04-19T00:25:48 < ds2> you get what you pay for :D
2019-04-19T00:25:49 < jadew`> ds2, funny
2019-04-19T00:25:53 < zyp> jadew`, in that case, container isolation is probably good enough
2019-04-19T00:26:32 < jadew`> zyp, yeah, I guess it depends
2019-04-19T00:26:58 < zyp> couple of years ago I attended a docker talk held by a guy working for the IT department of the norwegian tax authority
2019-04-19T00:27:12 < zyp> apparently they are running containers on VMs on mainframes
2019-04-19T00:27:36 < BrainDamage> containers makes a lot of sense with heterogenous infra
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2019-04-19T00:27:47 < BrainDamage> you just deploy the thing, and care very little about the environment
2019-04-19T00:27:52 < zyp> yeah
2019-04-19T00:28:14 < kakimir> vt inside vt
2019-04-19T00:28:22 < kakimir> can we go deeper?
2019-04-19T00:28:26 < karlp> but I still don't see why people want to have a toolchain for their development environment be inside a docker container
2019-04-19T00:28:49 < kakimir> it's just about being fancy
2019-04-19T00:28:56 < kakimir> or obsessed
2019-04-19T00:28:57 < zyp> containers makes a lot of sense in general, it decouples the whole infrastructure from providing the right environment for a service to run
2019-04-19T00:29:14 < zyp> karlp, same
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2019-04-19T00:29:20 < jadew`> zyp, that's usually a function of ./setup.sh
2019-04-19T00:29:21 < zyp> I mean, I can see why, but I disagree with it
2019-04-19T00:29:26 < jadew`> which installs a bunch of packages
2019-04-19T00:29:27 < jadew`> and that's it
2019-04-19T00:29:29 < kakimir> I bet there is a mindset that once you get into dockers
2019-04-19T00:29:33 < kakimir> you are hooked
2019-04-19T00:29:42 < kakimir> you docker anything and everything
2019-04-19T00:29:44 < BrainDamage> it's just the newest hammer
2019-04-19T00:30:18 < jadew`> it's ok for build environments I guess, if they're super whacky
2019-04-19T00:30:22 < zyp> jadew`, yeah, except you've got ten services you want to run and they have conflicting arguments
2019-04-19T00:30:26 < ds2> containers are more useful for stripping out access for questionable SW
2019-04-19T00:30:46 < zyp> s/arguments/requirements/
2019-04-19T00:31:09 < jadew`> zyp, never ran into that issue
2019-04-19T00:31:45 < zyp> for instance, service A wants version X of library Z, service B wants version Y of library Z
2019-04-19T00:31:49 < jadew`> or if I ever did, I didn't notice it, because I found a way to make it work
2019-04-19T00:32:04 < ds2> zyp: you can address that with the LD_ variables in most cases
2019-04-19T00:32:24 < zyp> ds2, but who the fuck wants to mess around with LD_ variables?
2019-04-19T00:33:25 < ds2> anyone who doesn't want 2342342341234 copies of the same library around
2019-04-19T00:33:27 < PaulFertser> kakimir: it's in "pkgconfig" package in Debian iirc
2019-04-19T00:34:20 < jadew`> also, regarding services people want to have working, there are usually just two
2019-04-19T00:34:29 < jadew`> some sort of SQL server and some sort of HTTP server
2019-04-19T00:34:43 < jadew`> and they're usually up to date for every platform
2019-04-19T00:35:03 < zyp> haha
2019-04-19T00:38:11 < jadew`> also, as a side note, this whole "I found the solution: here's an entire image of an OS that works" stinks of linux
2019-04-19T00:39:21 < qyx> n the past I used lxc, is docker something innovative?
2019-04-19T00:40:19 < zyp> does lxc do anything except containment itself?
2019-04-19T00:40:42 < zyp> docker has this whole stack with images and image building and shit
2019-04-19T00:40:58 < PaulFertser> docker is using lxc afair, so the question is moot
2019-04-19T00:41:19 < ds2> doesn't lxc require the openvz patches?
2019-04-19T00:41:19 < zyp> not to mention https://hub.docker.com/ with a ton of prebuilt images
2019-04-19T00:41:52 < zyp> pretty much anything I run is prebuilt stuff
2019-04-19T00:43:18 < jadew`> zyp, but do they really solve a problem?
2019-04-19T00:43:33 < jadew`> is there anything you can't get with apt install?
2019-04-19T00:43:55 < zyp> depends whether you view wasting time as a problem or not
2019-04-19T00:44:03 < PaulFertser> "On March 13, 2014, with the release of version 0.9, Docker dropped LXC as the default execution environment and replaced it with its own libcontainer library written in the Go programming language." hm, ok
2019-04-19T00:44:33 < jadew`> zyp, what do those containers have that the standard install doesn't?
2019-04-19T00:45:06 < zyp> clear bounds
2019-04-19T00:45:51 < jadew`> that's not usually something you want in a production server
2019-04-19T00:46:02 < jadew`> you want whatever needs more to get more
2019-04-19T00:46:05 < ds2> trojans? ;)
2019-04-19T00:46:17 < jadew`> I'm assuming we're talking resources :)
2019-04-19T00:46:27 < zyp> no, I didn't mean resources
2019-04-19T00:46:40 < jadew`> you meant torjans?
2019-04-19T00:47:26 < jadew`> can't argue with that, it's obviously safer than without containment, but... a VM would be better in this regard
2019-04-19T00:47:32 < qyx> managing a single server instance for multiple purposes is a pain
2019-04-19T00:47:47 < qyx> it is one of tje reasons for cxontainers
2019-04-19T00:47:50 < zyp> jadew`, no, I meant in terms of where it's installed
2019-04-19T00:48:02 < qyx> to simply separate environments
2019-04-19T00:48:31 < jadew`> qyx, there's no added complexity in having multiple servers running on a single instance
2019-04-19T00:48:37 < jadew`> assuming you don't want to run the same one twice
2019-04-19T00:48:41 < zyp> a containerized app lives in the container, if you wanna get rid of it you delete the instance and it's gone, no leftover bullshit to clean up or anything
2019-04-19T00:49:00 < zyp> what if you do want to run the same one twice?
2019-04-19T00:49:04 < qyx> also deployment is easoer
2019-04-19T00:49:15 < jadew`> zyp, if you want that it gets trickier for sure
2019-04-19T00:49:23 < qyx> if it fails, restore the container
2019-04-19T00:50:05 < zyp> a year or two ago I were testing some mesh-like service
2019-04-19T00:50:18 < qyx> it is the same thing as javing a clean API between modules in a sw
2019-04-19T00:50:19 < zyp> so I just spun up a bunch of identical containers and had them talking to each other
2019-04-19T00:50:28 < zyp> exactly
2019-04-19T00:50:33 < qyx> or services in a microkernel arcjitecture
2019-04-19T00:51:29 < jadew`> I must not be thinking about the right type of services that would fit this solution
2019-04-19T00:52:05 < qyx> lets have an example
2019-04-19T00:52:09 < qyx> a redmine instance
2019-04-19T00:52:24 < qyx> it requires ruby, an exact version lets say
2019-04-19T00:52:29 < qyx> a ton of dependencies
2019-04-19T00:52:50 < qyx> you don't want to pollute your web server
2019-04-19T00:53:11 < qyx> thats a nice example when a container may be utilized
2019-04-19T00:53:31 < jadew`> yeah, that sounds like a good use case
2019-04-19T00:53:33 < zyp> a while ago my wife wanted to start a blog, so I just spun up a wordpress instance (along with a mysql instance for it to store shit in)
2019-04-19T00:53:54 < jadew`> zyp, two separate containers?
2019-04-19T00:53:59 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/DQ9Cp <- the config to bring up the entire thing looks like this
2019-04-19T00:54:03 < zyp> yeah
2019-04-19T00:54:19 < qyx> because nowadays everyone want to use their tools, their env, their fuking language, their http server
2019-04-19T00:54:19 < jadew`> interesting
2019-04-19T00:54:30 < jadew`> how much overhead does it have?
2019-04-19T00:55:15 < zyp> not enough for me to even care, my server has plenty more time to waste than I have
2019-04-19T00:55:44 < zyp> but container overhead should be less than VM overhead
2019-04-19T00:56:06 < ds2> qyx: that's the most annoying thing of all...no one wants to play nicely
2019-04-19T00:56:15 < jadew`> yeah, I'm just wondering why it's the go-to solution for stuff like this
2019-04-19T00:56:25 < qyx> in the past there were apache and php
2019-04-19T00:56:28 < zyp> because it saves time
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2019-04-19T00:56:42 < jadew`> normally, for the wordpressthing, you would just make a new user on the already existing mysql server
2019-04-19T00:57:01 < jadew`> and not install wordpress because it's exploitable
2019-04-19T00:57:08 < zyp> I didn't have any existing mysql servers, why would I use that shit for anything else?
2019-04-19T00:57:27 < qyx> normally you have a dedicated mysql server or vm
2019-04-19T00:57:35 < zyp> as for wordpress, idk
2019-04-19T00:57:47 < qyx> because there comes security
2019-04-19T00:58:04 < qyx> having data on a buggy public server is meh
2019-04-19T00:58:14 < specing> you don't have wordpress
2019-04-19T00:58:19 < specing> and you don't have problems
2019-04-19T00:58:23 < zyp> I don't know much about any alternatives to wordpress and I didn't want to maintain that shit anyway, so I just picked something that would be simple enough that my wife could figure it out
2019-04-19T00:58:25 < qyx> vut again, this doesn't solve everything
2019-04-19T00:58:29 < jadew`> qyx, you don't need access to the sql server if you get access to the client server
2019-04-19T00:58:32 < specing> if you need web services, write the webapps in AWS
2019-04-19T00:58:40 < jadew`> you can just export the data from the client server
2019-04-19T00:58:54 < jadew`> so having it on a different machine offers only marginal protection
2019-04-19T00:59:02 < jadew`> close to none, unless you're serving multiple machines
2019-04-19T00:59:08 < qyx> jadew`: yes but not all of them, at least you have an another 
2019-04-19T00:59:11 < qyx> ayer of acl
2019-04-19T00:59:40 < qyx> also the db api is not the only vector
2019-04-19T00:59:43 < jadew`> qyx, if you get access to the client machine, you get access to all the sql users and passwords
2019-04-19T00:59:53 < jadew`> so you just connect to the sql server and select *
2019-04-19T01:00:09 < qyx> you miss the point
2019-04-19T01:00:21 < jadew`> I mean, if the danger is that a hacker might read the data directly, then he can read the client code directly too
2019-04-19T01:00:21 < qyx> users are separated
2019-04-19T01:00:24 < zyp> by the way, shared vs dedicated mysql server is not a property of containers, so the points you're making are moot
2019-04-19T01:00:35 < qyx> apps don't run under the same user of course
2019-04-19T01:00:43 < qyx> there are containers/vms for apps
2019-04-19T01:00:47 < qyx> etc.
2019-04-19T01:00:52 < zyp> if I already had a mysql server running, I could just add a user and point the wordpress container at it
2019-04-19T01:01:10 < qyx> zyp: true
2019-04-19T01:01:14 < kakimir> https://os.mbed.com/handbook/CMSIS-DAP
2019-04-19T01:01:23 < kakimir> interestings
2019-04-19T01:01:32 < jadew`> zyp, keep an eye on that wordpress, they get hacked regularly
2019-04-19T01:01:34 < zyp> but I didn't, so I spun up a single purpose mysql server to deal with it
2019-04-19T01:01:35 < qyx> I just think jadew` is not getting the concept :P
2019-04-19T01:02:10 < zyp> jadew`, didn't so far, and now my wife says she's tired of blogging, so when the domain name expires I'm probably just gonna delete both containers :p
2019-04-19T01:02:35 < jadew`> I got two blogging domains for my wife
2019-04-19T01:02:39 < jadew`> she wrote a draft
2019-04-19T01:02:55 < qyx> the point of containers is like isolating users on a web server instead of runing all webs under www-data or similar
2019-04-19T01:03:28 < jadew`> qyx, yeah, that makes absolute sense
2019-04-19T01:03:43 < zyp> and the point of docker goes past that by also giving you stable images
2019-04-19T01:04:00 < zyp> I can build a docker image and spin it up on my test server and make sure it works
2019-04-19T01:04:20 < zyp> and then I can spin the same image up on the production server, confident it'll work because nothing has changed
2019-04-19T01:04:50 < qyx> at least in the ideal world
2019-04-19T01:05:43 < zyp> I mean, assuming you don't fuck up the container instance config itself
2019-04-19T01:07:32 < zyp> jadew`, hehe, been there done that, back when I figured I would start my own blog
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2019-04-19T01:08:11 < zyp> looking at some stats now, my wife managed 63 posts before she got tired of it :p
2019-04-19T01:08:25 < jadew`> that's quite a lot
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2019-04-19T01:08:55 < jadew`> there are so many people blogging now you have to churn out 1 or 2 blog posts per day to start getting any traffic
2019-04-19T01:09:22 < zyp> isn't all the cool kids making videos for youtube instead nowadays?
2019-04-19T01:09:49 < jadew`> probably, but they're making nothing too
2019-04-19T01:09:59 < jadew`> because everyone is doing that too
2019-04-19T01:10:11 < zyp> hehe
2019-04-19T01:10:24 < jadew`> have you seen how many electronics channels are there?
2019-04-19T01:10:25 < zyp> hmm, facebook marketplace seems neat
2019-04-19T01:10:55 < jadew`> heard about that, it's for SH stuff?
2019-04-19T01:11:02 < zyp> posted up an old fridge I've been meaning to get rid of but too lazy to do anything about earlier today, already got a message asking if it's still available
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2019-04-19T01:11:21 < jadew`> nice
2019-04-19T01:11:47 < jadew`> I'll have to check it out
2019-04-19T01:13:04 < zyp> I tried offering it to my friends for free when I moved, but nobody had a need for it, so it's been taking up space in my storage for a couple of months now
2019-04-19T01:13:36 < jadew`> you can make a nice compressor out of it
2019-04-19T01:13:50 < zyp> um, no
2019-04-19T01:14:18 < jadew`> why not?
2019-04-19T01:14:24 < ds2> vaccuum pump
2019-04-19T01:14:37 < zyp> I'd rather sell it and do something useful with the money :p
2019-04-19T01:14:44 < jadew`> ah :P
2019-04-19T01:14:57 < jadew`> the cool think about them is that they're really quiet
2019-04-19T01:15:03 < zyp> no point in tearing a part a fully functional fridge
2019-04-19T01:15:21 < zyp> at least not if I can get back the same amount I paid for it :p
2019-04-19T01:15:24 < aandrew> karlp: is that what it was called?
2019-04-19T01:15:24 < jadew`> how do I find this marketplace?
2019-04-19T01:15:26 < jadew`> ah
2019-04-19T01:15:29 < jadew`> 4th button
2019-04-19T01:15:38 < aandrew> yes, that was it: http://openvizsla.org/
2019-04-19T01:15:47 < jadew`> lol zyp
2019-04-19T01:15:53 < zyp> aandrew, I got one of those
2019-04-19T01:16:06 < aandrew> although it's OSS so you can theoretically build it
2019-04-19T01:16:08 < aandrew> zyp: oh? and?
2019-04-19T01:16:25 < jadew`> I've seen that advertised somewhere
2019-04-19T01:16:26 < zyp> the kickstarter ones, I mean, not sure if they released any newer since
2019-04-19T01:16:39 < jadew`> isn't it made by that one guy?
2019-04-19T01:16:50 < jadew`> I remember some pictures from his living room
2019-04-19T01:18:03 < zyp> aandrew, and what? just mentioning since the name came up
2019-04-19T01:18:07 < jadew`> who was looking for a car? https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2620639121286836/
2019-04-19T01:18:16 < jadew`> ~ 170 eur
2019-04-19T01:18:58 < zyp> aandrew, when it finally arrived, I had a beagle 480 on my desk, so I never got around to testing it
2019-04-19T01:19:23 < aandrew> zyp: ah, ok then
2019-04-19T01:19:44 < invzim> meh, usb hs port on f7 doesn't do much for me out of the box
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2019-04-19T01:25:48 < zyp> what do you expect it to do?
2019-04-19T01:26:16 < invzim> behave like the fs port :)
2019-04-19T01:26:24 < invzim> show debug messages when I connect stuff
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2019-04-19T01:29:25 < mawk> now that I cut the physical NRST line when I plug the stlink it enters the fail state saying it can't reset the target MCU, but if I send a SW reset using st-flash it can reset the mcu
2019-04-19T01:29:38 < mawk> so everytime I plug in the stlink I must reset like this to keep the program going
2019-04-19T01:29:52 < mawk> isn't there like some configuration bytes for the stlink ?
2019-04-19T01:33:12 < aandrew> well bootloader mode should owrk
2019-04-19T01:37:16 < invzim> I struggled with stlink, segger clone worth every rmb
2019-04-19T01:37:41 < mawk> here it's the builtin stlink
2019-04-19T01:37:42 < mawk> of nucleo32
2019-04-19T01:38:00 < mawk> I "added" user usb so I had to cut the NRST from stlink to the target core
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2019-04-19T01:42:13 < aandrew> yep jlink is pretty sweet
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2019-04-19T01:42:49 < aandrew> I love that arrow/altera released an ft2232 based JTAG adapter that works with the tools. 
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2019-04-19T01:43:58 < invzim> I use close to 0 of the jlink features I think, but like that it just works.  and SWO is really nice for printfs :)
2019-04-19T01:44:23 < invzim> for altera I had issues with the elcheapo st based clones
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2019-04-19T01:44:44 < aandrew> invzim: same. 
2019-04-19T01:44:52 < invzim> so I got a more expensive clone :)
2019-04-19T01:45:10 < aandrew> I just dropped an ft2232h on the board, gave it vid/pid that altera wnats and boom, it just works
2019-04-19T01:45:31 < invzim> ah nice, not sure what caused it - but started to get blue-screens
2019-04-19T01:45:35 < aandrew> I have an altera blaster clone and it works too but I like that I can drop a part on any board I make and it works.
2019-04-19T01:46:01 < aandrew> next time I gotta be a little smarter about it though, maybe put jtag on port 0 and swd on port 1, but I don't know if that'll fix my concurrency issues or not
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2019-04-19T01:47:09 < aandrew> depends on what the damn driver does
2019-04-19T01:47:13 < aandrew> actuall no that won't work
2019-04-19T01:47:36 < aandrew> I "capture" the device on my pc and send it to my vm on esxi and it captures the entire device not just part of it
2019-04-19T01:48:12 < aandrew> ideally I would have to reverse the ethernet jtag dongle protocol altera uses and then you could in theory connect anything
2019-04-19T01:49:21 < invzim> I dropped vm's for development and went native win10, a lot of issues went away
2019-04-19T01:49:43 < invzim> with native ubuntu for windows I don't miss a lot
2019-04-19T01:49:46 < aandrew> so far I've not had any real issues
2019-04-19T01:49:49 < aandrew> and fuck win10
2019-04-19T01:50:03 < aandrew> win7 vms, ubuntu/debian vms, all good
2019-04-19T01:50:20 < invzim> compile times in quartus went down quite a bit, then again I was using virtualbox :)
2019-04-19T01:50:45 < aandrew> vmware fusion 10+ allows you to connect to esxi and send usb devices to it, i'm sure workstation does as well if you're running windows/linux
2019-04-19T01:50:57 < aandrew> I had all kinds of problems with vbox
2019-04-19T01:51:14 < aandrew> shared folders didn't work, and windows shares were FUCKING DOG SLOW
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2019-04-19T02:01:57 < catphish> just realised how little memory an stm32 has! i was making an audio recorder and reaised i have enough sram for about 2 seconds of audio
2019-04-19T02:02:08 < Cracki> compress on the fly?
2019-04-19T02:02:34 < catphish> plausible
2019-04-19T02:02:42 < Cracki> write to flash
2019-04-19T02:02:51 < catphish> compression is possible, but i imagine i'm going to need dram
2019-04-19T02:02:52 < Cracki> or write to sd card
2019-04-19T02:02:53 < jadew`> 2 seconds is a lot in photon time
2019-04-19T02:03:22 < Cracki> digital audio recorders just dump pcm wav to sd card
2019-04-19T02:03:25 < catphish> sd card is an interesting option
2019-04-19T02:03:26 < Thorn> sx1276 is receiving even without an antenna
2019-04-19T02:03:56 < Cracki> sd card spoken to with spi, might already be fast enough
2019-04-19T02:04:17 < Cracki> 48 khz 24 bit stereo is still just 0.288 MByte/s
2019-04-19T02:04:29 < Cracki> every class of card can handle that
2019-04-19T02:04:30 < catphish> i need about 100kB/s i think
2019-04-19T02:04:45 < catphish> 48kHz 16 bit
2019-04-19T02:04:58 < Cracki> ye that's nothing
2019-04-19T02:05:31 < Cracki> even if your controller has no sdio (?) interface and you have to use spi fallback
2019-04-19T02:06:16 < catphish> its an stm32, it has everything :)
2019-04-19T02:07:34 < specing> > how little memory an stm32
2019-04-19T02:07:42 < specing> flashbacks to PIC...
2019-04-19T02:08:21 < specing> 64 bytes RAM, anyone?
2019-04-19T02:09:15 < aandrew> heh hey now
2019-04-19T02:09:20 < aandrew> I started out there, made good money off pic
2019-04-19T02:09:40 < aandrew> but yeah unlike my C64 days where I loved it I do not reminisce about my PIC days
2019-04-19T02:25:18 < specing> The only good thing about PICs was...
2019-04-19T02:25:21 < specing> um um ...
2019-04-19T02:25:23 < specing> :)
2019-04-19T02:25:44 < specing> Well, the datasheets were really short
2019-04-19T02:31:10 < _unreal_> ahh much better
2019-04-19T02:31:15 < _unreal_> just got out of the shower
2019-04-19T02:32:27 < Cracki> nifoc?
2019-04-19T02:33:29 < specing> ask _unreal_ how much he loves PIC
2019-04-19T02:36:29 < MrMobius> the C compiler isnt free. thats a good thing
2019-04-19T02:36:31 < MrMobius> wait...
2019-04-19T02:38:58 < Cracki> wat
2019-04-19T02:39:37 < Cracki> there are some who would argue that gcc is so copyleft that it's coming out the other end, which is that it's copyrighted
2019-04-19T02:52:58 < aandrew> the old PICs were actually not bad
2019-04-19T02:53:19 < aandrew> then they created the PIC18s and tried to shoehorn C-friendliness into it and that just made them this disgusting hybrid
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2019-04-19T03:13:01 < _unreal_> aandrew, heh
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2019-04-19T03:34:42 < fenugrec> pre-eclipse MPLAB IDE with its simulator was pretty good too
2019-04-19T03:47:31 < zyp> so I went over and dropped off that fridge
2019-04-19T03:50:30 < zyp> lady said her old fridge suddenly broke down today, she were going away for the weekend and would like me to come deliver it on monday
2019-04-19T03:51:08 < zyp> I replied and said I wanted it out of the way, so I could come by with it before she leaves
2019-04-19T03:52:05 < zyp> she said she'll be leaving at 11 tomorrow, and I figured I didn't want to wake up early, so I were like «ok, if you're awake in an hour I'll be there with it»
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2019-04-19T04:17:18 < Cracki> so you saved all the perishables
2019-04-19T04:31:54 < aandrew> fenugrec: yes, pre-eclipse was usable. it was still a shitty ide but was usable
2019-04-19T04:32:01 < aandrew> and a FUCK of a lot more responsive
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2019-04-19T04:34:54 < kiki_lamb> catphish: SPI RAM is also a thing you can get
2019-04-19T04:35:59 < kiki_lamb> nice when you only need to hold stuff temporarily, and aren't actually recording, per se (like for delay buffers, or storage for sample playback)
2019-04-19T04:37:59 < Cracki> oh crap I hope they don't kill atmel studio in favor or mplab x
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2019-04-19T05:46:01 < dongs> atmel studio is just visual studio, what teh fuck is mpcrap x?
2019-04-19T05:46:03 < dongs> eclipse skin?
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2019-04-19T05:58:03 < R2COM> sup yop
2019-04-19T05:58:06 < R2COM> yo
2019-04-19T05:58:09 < dongs> sup
2019-04-19T05:58:21 < R2COM> not much just sick of imbeciles at work
2019-04-19T05:58:32 < R2COM> mainly old stupid farts who run business
2019-04-19T05:58:43 < R2COM> conservative people
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2019-04-19T06:01:40 < R2COM> when you innovate a very complex mixed signal IP and prove on simulations that it works people afraid to pay $50k to tapeout right away cuz if its too complex there is "high risk" of failure
2019-04-19T06:01:48 < R2COM> better leave old stuff which "just works"
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2019-04-19T06:09:45 < dongs> nice
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2019-04-19T06:40:47 < dongs> https://github.com/insane-adding-machines/unicore-mx oh look
2019-04-19T06:40:49 < dongs> found more weird trash
2019-04-19T06:41:04 < dongs> oh, its openckm3 fork
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2019-04-19T06:53:40 <@englishman> on msp430, when receiving bytes via i2c, you have to count cycles and set the stop transfer bit during byte reception. if you don't, an extra byte will be clocked in. if you wait for the "byte rx'd" flag to go high, msp430 will have already started clocking the next byte
2019-04-19T06:54:03 < dongs> isnt that same shit as broken i2c on F1
2019-04-19T06:54:16 < dongs> when you have to prepare for stop on the byte-before-last shit
2019-04-19T06:54:29 <@englishman> idk only i2c i did on f1 was copypasted from baseflight
2019-04-19T06:54:34 < dongs> lols
2019-04-19T06:55:04 <@englishman> but yeah pretty much that
2019-04-19T06:55:39 <@englishman> also i haven't been able to get repeated starts to work yet, i have to do a full stop and there are zero msp430 examples that have repeated start
2019-04-19T06:56:06 <@englishman> a TI rep said to set a timer to go off mid-byte so you can set the stop flag
2019-04-19T06:56:18 < dongs> yeah dont worry, literally nothing actually needs repeat start
2019-04-19T06:56:35 < dongs> just do write, reg, stop, read, xx , stop
2019-04-19T06:56:58 <@englishman> yeah nothing NEEDS it but meh
2019-04-19T06:57:19 < dongs> its way easier to just have i2cwrite and i2cread functions
2019-04-19T06:57:26 < dongs> than try to specialcase for weird shit
2019-04-19T06:57:38 <@englishman> also, bq25703a is gr8
2019-04-19T06:57:42 < dongs> repeatstart is just i2cwrite(addr, reg); i2cread(addr, buf, size)
2019-04-19T06:58:17 < dongs> supports PD?
2019-04-19T06:58:25 <@englishman> has nothing to do with PD
2019-04-19T06:58:36 <@englishman> well i made i2c_read_reg and i2c_write_reg funcs because thats what i want to do, read and write regs
2019-04-19T06:58:47 <@englishman> ti's PD solution is fucking insane
2019-04-19T06:59:06 <@englishman> TPS65987D
2019-04-19T06:59:10 <@englishman> it's fucking off the wall
2019-04-19T06:59:27 <@englishman> three i2c lines, one master
2019-04-19T06:59:34 <@englishman> huge amounts of flash
2019-04-19T06:59:44 <@englishman> a billion registers and programmable automated shit
2019-04-19T06:59:55 <@englishman> and awful awful documentation of actually HOW to program it
2019-04-19T07:00:20 <@englishman> my fae ran the fuck away when i started asking questions of how the shit did they program their demo boards?
2019-04-19T07:00:57 <@englishman> i got STUSB4500 to work, going to stick with that
2019-04-19T07:01:41 < dongs> china (southchip) who make battery packet/c stuff are all using CCG3PA for PD controller
2019-04-19T07:02:12 <@englishman> im waiting on cypress NDA
2019-04-19T07:02:16 <@englishman> to learn about their shit
2019-04-19T07:02:43 < dongs> why not just ask R2PRO for the warez
2019-04-19T07:02:58 <@englishman> i dont need a coffee?
2019-04-19T07:28:18 < dongs> aehaehuuehauehauh
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2019-04-19T07:36:49 < Thorn> hm only $1.55 qty 10 https://lcsc.com/product-detail/PMIC-Battery-Management_TI_BQ25703ARSNR_BQ25703ARSNR_C188229.html
2019-04-19T07:37:03 < Thorn> can it negotiate current over usb?
2019-04-19T07:37:46 <@englishman> it has NOTHING to do with usb, usb pd or QC or anything
2019-04-19T07:38:45 < Thorn> why so many external fets :/
2019-04-19T07:38:50 <@englishman> but it does have a smart little program to find the max current available from a voltage source
2019-04-19T07:38:51 <@englishman> because
2019-04-19T07:38:53 <@englishman> it's awesome
2019-04-19T07:44:09 < Thorn> interesting kind of awesome
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2019-04-19T07:50:11 <@englishman> as far as battery management goes it ticks a lot of boxes
2019-04-19T07:51:15 <@englishman> being compatible with usb 5-20V will be important in the future plus industrial 24V is supported
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2019-04-19T08:40:48 <@englishman> Microsoft has acquired Express Logic, a maker of real-time operating systems for IoT/edge devices for an undisclosed amount. According to Microsoft, Express Logic's ThreadX RTOS is one of the most deployed RTOSes for microcontroller-based devices in the world. 
2019-04-19T08:40:53 <@englishman> has anyone used ThreadX
2019-04-19T08:41:55 <@englishman> Express Logic has more than 6.2 billion deployments to date, according to Microsoft's blog post.
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2019-04-19T10:04:03 < dongs> ive herad of threadx
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2019-04-19T10:04:32 < dongs> i think their only success is cuz they own rtos.com
2019-04-19T10:04:35 < dongs> so when dumb pakis search rtos
2019-04-19T10:04:37 < dongs> its first hit
2019-04-19T10:04:43 < dongs> so they recommend to boss
2019-04-19T10:07:04 < dongs> how is it that the msot common chink usb-c socket doesnt have a 3d model
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2019-04-19T10:19:44 < dongs> http://www.goodconn.cn/UpLoadFiles/20150322/2015032213034375.jpg
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2019-04-19T11:49:20 < zyp> haha
2019-04-19T11:56:57 < Steffanx> Is antto still alive?
2019-04-19T11:56:59 < Steffanx> dongs: 
2019-04-19T11:57:11 < Steffanx> Whops
2019-04-19T12:01:44 < dongs> hm?
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2019-04-19T12:08:43 < catphish> kiki_lamb: thanks, i'll look into that, i'm trying to build a really simple multi-purpose guitar pedal, so spi ram might be perfect
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2019-04-19T12:35:36 < qyx> zyp jadew re blagging, I am going to write something about building a house in the middle of nowhere, for sure, once, more than 1 post
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2019-04-19T12:44:22 < Steffanx> Going for a 2nd house like that qyx ?
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2019-04-19T13:04:54 < dongs> HOLY SHIT
2019-04-19T13:04:56 < dongs> china replied
2019-04-19T13:04:57 < dongs> with 3d model
2019-04-19T13:07:52 < rajkosto> can we have it
2019-04-19T13:08:04 < dongs> yeah as ssoon asi  figure out how to denigger it
2019-04-19T13:08:06 < dongs> its fucking .igs
2019-04-19T13:08:07 < dongs> not step
2019-04-19T13:16:24 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/XYdhSYV.png
2019-04-19T13:24:45 < dongs> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wnc/whisper-the-noise-canceler this is bullshit isnt it
2019-04-19T13:25:04 < rajkosto> like most kickstarters
2019-04-19T13:25:48 < dongs> well shit
2019-04-19T13:25:53 < dongs> my pal cant convert that igs to stp
2019-04-19T13:26:01 < dongs> tried parasolid, altifuck parasolid import is fail as shit
2019-04-19T13:33:48 < dongs> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wnc/whisper-the-noise-canceler/comments?comment=UHJvamVjdENvbW1lbnQtMTM5NzQ5NjE%3D ah yes
2019-04-19T13:33:51 < dongs> Lol
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2019-04-19T13:38:00 < dongs> nice
2019-04-19T13:38:04 < dongs> pal converted with alplhacam
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2019-04-19T14:02:51 < zyp> qyx, still gonna actually bother?
2019-04-19T14:03:08 < zyp> I do a bunch of stuff that might actually be interesting to blog about, I'm just too lazy to
2019-04-19T14:03:27 < zyp> I just twat stuff on irc instead
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2019-04-19T14:50:15 < tctw> yo o/
2019-04-19T14:50:16 < tctw> sup?
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2019-04-19T14:57:19 < Steffanx> sky?
2019-04-19T14:58:35 < BrainDamage> catphish: I have built one, there's no real reason to not shove an existing arm SoC
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2019-04-19T15:45:03 < dongs> sup dongs
2019-04-19T15:45:30 < Steffanx> Blue blue sky.
2019-04-19T15:45:40 < Steffanx> there
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2019-04-19T15:50:38 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/HT1bvha.jpg my typec shit is wroking
2019-04-19T15:50:55 < dongs> but my shitty P20 can't output > 1080p over displayport
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2019-04-19T15:54:42 < Steffanx> cool :)
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2019-04-19T16:47:43 < kakimir> dongs: your taskbar is placed quite uniquelly
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2019-04-19T16:51:53 < dongs> in waht sense
2019-04-19T16:52:05 < dongs> its 2048x panel so 1920x1080p is in top left corner of it.
2019-04-19T17:03:46 <@englishman> usbC display out? hmm
2019-04-19T17:03:55 < dongs> huawei phonez do that
2019-04-19T17:04:07 < dongs> and i think some other stuff with usb-c like samdung
2019-04-19T17:04:18 < dongs> huawei outputs a full-screen lunix desktop
2019-04-19T17:04:25 <@englishman> apparently my samdongs does too
2019-04-19T17:04:29 <@englishman> and has 4k60
2019-04-19T17:04:32 < dongs> and phone screen becouns touchpad
2019-04-19T17:04:32 < dongs> yeah
2019-04-19T17:04:38 < dongs> i think huajew only does 1080p max
2019-04-19T17:04:45 < dongs> i connect it to a 4K screen before and it just scaled down 1080 anyway
2019-04-19T17:05:00 <@englishman> cool
2019-04-19T17:05:25 <@englishman> there was a dude on the street in Rabat selling a s9+
2019-04-19T17:05:38 < dongs> yeah pakis get it first
2019-04-19T17:05:47 < dongs> like ~days before launch anywhere else
2019-04-19T17:06:01 < dongs> lek got it like a month ago
2019-04-19T17:06:55 <@englishman> s10 is the new one
2019-04-19T17:07:05 < dongs> yeah s10 is wat i was talking about
2019-04-19T17:07:27 <@englishman> I meant there was a dude on a corner selling an obviously stolen $1k phone in a country where you could feed your family for a year on half that
2019-04-19T17:08:05 < dongs> haha
2019-04-19T17:08:06 < dongs> well yeah ok
2019-04-19T17:10:33 <@englishman> so does my little phone battery now have to power an ifag display
2019-04-19T17:10:33 < dongs> I wonder if P30 would output full desktop
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2019-04-19T17:16:02 < dongs> yeah i was surprised it didnt immediatelyl disconncet
2019-04-19T17:16:07 < dongs> i did turn the brightness down so it draws around 600mA
2019-04-19T17:16:10 < dongs> but it worked with that
2019-04-19T17:16:22 < dongs> i'm sure there's an overload switch that would kill it > 1A or whatever
2019-04-19T17:19:59 <@englishman> if i plug the screen into a usbc charger or barrel jack will it recharge the phone
2019-04-19T17:20:46 < dongs> nah theres only usb-c on the screen.
2019-04-19T17:20:51 <@englishman> rip
2019-04-19T17:20:57 <@englishman> sounds like you need dual port TPS65988
2019-04-19T17:21:06 < dongs> yeah and add $10 to BOM
2019-04-19T17:21:43 <@englishman> about $5 but it includes switches
2019-04-19T17:22:00 < dongs> does it?
2019-04-19T17:22:04 <@englishman> it does
2019-04-19T17:22:05 < dongs> it provides GPIO FOR external switches
2019-04-19T17:22:10 < dongs> aka another $5
2019-04-19T17:22:13 < dongs> for lane-swapping
2019-04-19T17:22:29 <@englishman> oh i meant power switches
2019-04-19T17:22:41 <@englishman> the high speed switches are usually apart
2019-04-19T17:22:52 < dongs> my chink has it all on-chip
2019-04-19T17:22:58 <@englishman> neato
2019-04-19T17:22:58 < dongs> dp and usb3 redriver + lane mux
2019-04-19T17:23:33 < dongs> there's so many garbage portable screens now tho, i feel like this shit is late to the party
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2019-04-19T17:23:48 < dongs> they're all using that crappy new-ish realtek dp/hdmi chip that outputs edp
2019-04-19T17:24:02 < dongs> and CCCG3 or wahtever for altmode mux
2019-04-19T17:24:33 <@englishman> must be a reference design out somewhere
2019-04-19T17:24:41 <@englishman> are they good screens tho
2019-04-19T17:24:53 <@englishman> that ifag screen is still one of the best and cheapest years on
2019-04-19T17:24:59 < dongs> pal bought a $150-ish one 10" or so, the construction looked pretty fucking flimsy
2019-04-19T17:29:16 <@englishman> what is the brand of usbpd thing
2019-04-19T17:29:29 <@englishman> do the other screens charge your phone? seems like a good idea imo
2019-04-19T17:29:43 < dongs> no, this shit has nothign to do with power
2019-04-19T17:29:47 < dongs> it doesnt have vconn or wahtever stuff
2019-04-19T17:30:02 < dongs> i think other stuff has external power brick input just to power screen isntead of raping laptop/wahtever battery
2019-04-19T17:30:23 <@englishman> it talks pd but doesnt have anything to do with power..?
2019-04-19T17:30:39 < dongs> yeah its only for getting altmode mux stuff negotiated
2019-04-19T17:30:44 < dongs> it doens't do > 5V negotiation and shit
2019-04-19T17:30:48 <@englishman> ahh k
2019-04-19T17:30:57 < dongs> i've asked and chinks said like...
2019-04-19T17:31:07 < dongs> almsot nothing (laptops/etc) supporst > 5V out when its usb-c host
2019-04-19T17:31:15 < dongs> they will take > 5V in, when its a sink
2019-04-19T17:31:25 < dongs> but when its a source its usually 5V only so
2019-04-19T17:31:30 < dongs> they don't feel teh need to support anyt of that
2019-04-19T17:32:10 <@englishman> thats fine but in order to be a usb device and also supply power (to charge the phone) there is a usb-pd communication and role swap procedure
2019-04-19T17:32:28 < dongs> yeah i don't think they can do that
2019-04-19T17:32:28 <@englishman> like that is exactly the kind of thing that PD allows you to do now
2019-04-19T17:32:39 <@englishman> but yeah finding shit that actually supports it has been hard
2019-04-19T17:32:53 <@englishman> finding shit that WORKS is even harder
2019-04-19T17:32:55 < dongs> anyway, my shit is for fagbooks/laptops/wahtever i only tested with phone cuz i have nothign else to try with
2019-04-19T17:33:01 < dongs> worked on my HP usb-c and on my 2080
2019-04-19T17:33:09 <@englishman> cool
2019-04-19T17:33:17 < dongs> i need to find the fags i gave away my macbook to and try it there too
2019-04-19T17:33:29 < dongs> then the shit is covered
2019-04-19T17:36:39 < qyx> zyp: idk, last year I prepared wiki for that, no progress so far
2019-04-19T17:36:45 < qyx> maybe when I retire
2019-04-19T17:41:40 < qyx> the problem of blogging is the minimum level of OCPD required for it to be actually readable and concise
2019-04-19T17:44:08 < jpa-> you make readable and concise irc blurts, how is blogging different?
2019-04-19T17:46:57 < dongs> https://tokyo.hackjunction.com/hardware/ lol
2019-04-19T17:47:06 < dongs> look at all that make:r wank provided
2019-04-19T17:47:49 < mawk> what's «monozukuri»
2019-04-19T17:47:57 < dongs> literally make:r faggots
2019-04-19T17:48:00 < mawk> lol
2019-04-19T17:48:36 < mawk> in the video loop you see a guy holding an arduino like a mobile phone
2019-04-19T17:49:22 < dongs> font page video loop?
2019-04-19T17:49:25 < mawk> yes
2019-04-19T17:49:30 < dongs> fucking retardiono fags
2019-04-19T17:50:59 < dongs> i dont even knwo what the fuck youre supposed to make at that place
2019-04-19T17:51:02 < dongs> https://tokyo.hackjunction.com/2019tracks/ ???
2019-04-19T17:51:50 < dongs> https://tokyo.hackjunction.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Code-of-Conduct-2018.pdf lul they hafve a fuckign code of conduct
2019-04-19T17:53:13 < mawk> it's all commercial shit
2019-04-19T17:53:29 <@englishman> Please refer to this collection of APIs specially made for Junction Tokyo HERE!
2019-04-19T17:53:29 <@englishman> We are sorry, the page you’re trying to reach doesn’t exist.
2019-04-19T17:53:35 < mawk> first their scope partnership, then their tracks want you to make a "startup" based on some large commercial company APIs and stuff
2019-04-19T17:53:49 < mawk> rakuten
2019-04-19T17:54:42 <@englishman> rebooting lunix fixes my problem
2019-04-19T17:54:45 <@englishman> such innovataions wow
2019-04-19T17:55:00 < mawk> rebooting linux should never happen
2019-04-19T17:55:05 < mawk> your uptime is your pride
2019-04-19T17:55:13 < mawk> it's like the breast size of your girlfriend when you're a nerd
2019-04-19T17:57:05 <@englishman> im playing keen 4
2019-04-19T17:57:12 <@englishman> im in the pyramid of the forbidden
2019-04-19T17:57:15 <@englishman> what an unforgiving game
2019-04-19T17:59:30 < con3> so weird and probably a no point in asking question, but is there a way to keep a pins state during a reset by the iwdg 
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2019-04-19T18:04:21 < jpa-> con3: maybe possible for RTC pins, but for others definitely no
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2019-04-19T18:04:29 < zygron_> mawk: 2685 days <= what is this like? triple D?
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2019-04-19T18:05:05 < con3> jpa-: ah damn, thank you!
2019-04-19T18:05:38 < jpa-> you can always add external pull-up or pull-down
2019-04-19T18:07:56 < con3> jpa-: thank you, looking into it now. 
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2019-04-19T18:10:14 < con3> what is the state of the pins upon reset? Is it shown in the ref manual somewhere?
2019-04-19T18:11:26 < jpa-> high-z
2019-04-19T18:11:37 < jpa-> you can see the reset value of gpio registers in ref man
2019-04-19T18:14:57 < con3> thank you jpa- appreciate the help. reading through the gpio portion of the ref now.
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2019-04-19T18:27:52 < catphish> BrainDamage: i'm not sure i could build something with a SoC that easily, and i will never get over the documentation mess those things come with, but i guess it makes sense in terms of spec
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2019-04-19T19:29:49 < aandrew> dongs: nice screen, what is the board/chipset driving it?
2019-04-19T19:33:15 <@englishman> its a displayport screen
2019-04-19T19:33:45 <@englishman> im pretty sure the stm32 on there just turns on and off the backlight with a user button press. total overkill
2019-04-19T19:33:54 < aandrew> oh nvm the silkscreen is actually searchable
2019-04-19T19:34:06 < rajkosto> what screen can i have a link
2019-04-19T19:34:08 <@englishman> you dont have any of those???
2019-04-19T19:34:10 <@englishman> i have two
2019-04-19T19:34:15 <@englishman> and two lg 13" panels
2019-04-19T19:34:27 <@englishman> easy and cheap way to add 4 million pixels to your desktop
2019-04-19T19:40:07 < Steffanx> are those the ipad screens or .. ?
2019-04-19T19:40:16 < rajkosto> what is the displayport board
2019-04-19T19:40:21 < rajkosto> with the stm
2019-04-19T19:43:53 <@englishman> the board that mr dong makes
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2019-04-19T19:44:21 <@englishman> the guy that lil'dongs is named after
2019-04-19T19:45:21 < BrainDamage> catphish: get a soc on a board, then just connect the header
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2019-04-19T20:34:30 < invzim> anyone got a Beagle USB 12?
2019-04-19T21:06:57 < Steffanx> nein. 480 is on its way.
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2019-04-19T21:11:40 < invzim> oh nice
2019-04-19T21:11:53 < invzim> not planning on doing hs any time soon
2019-04-19T21:12:38 < Steffanx> also the lack of fancy class decoding is what made me get 480 instead
2019-04-19T21:17:03 < Steffanx> For now it seems they show up on ebay a once or twice / month.
2019-04-19T21:19:57 < invzim> you got one used?
2019-04-19T21:20:15 < Steffanx> yeah
2019-04-19T21:20:30 < Steffanx> "for one project" the seller claimed, but that's an easy claim to make.
2019-04-19T21:20:44 < Steffanx> but i dont have it yet, so.. i have to see what i get :P
2019-04-19T21:21:24 < invzim> I incorporated my hobby to avoid sales-tax and dhl rape, so ebay stuff would be a little tricky
2019-04-19T21:21:37 < invzim> and no way I'm paying 1400bucks to tell me cubemx messed up :)
2019-04-19T21:21:56 < Steffanx> hah.
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2019-04-19T21:34:15 < catphish> invzim: not allowed to claim tax relief on my hobby here unless it has a realistic plan to make money :(
2019-04-19T21:34:53 < catphish> sadly all my projects suck too much to make money :)
2019-04-19T21:35:54 < mitrax> gah, i'm trying to locate an uninitialized section at the begining of RAM (before .data) .data is copied into rom (and copied into ram at startup, the usual way) i.e >RAM AT> FLASH but having another section in between the last section copied into rom and .data fucks up the binary size
2019-04-19T21:36:02 < mitrax> it's padded with shit up to a size of (ram origin - rom origin), symbols are at the proper addresses though
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2019-04-19T21:44:29 < invzim> so OTG_HS_IRQHandler is never called
2019-04-19T21:44:49 < invzim> this is starting to go above my paygrade
2019-04-19T21:47:18 < mitrax> invzim: you sure you enabled the OTG clock, the OTG_HS irq etc?
2019-04-19T21:48:51 < invzim> nope, but looking into it
2019-04-19T21:49:07 < invzim> everything works fine with the FS port, so kind of hoped it would for the HS port too
2019-04-19T21:51:53 < mitrax> they've got separate Irqs and clocks
2019-04-19T21:52:09 < invzim> I'm using cubemx
2019-04-19T21:59:27 < mawk> you enabled the irq handler in cubemx right
2019-04-19T22:01:48 < invzim> yah, all of them
2019-04-19T22:01:53 < invzim> just to be sure :)
2019-04-19T22:02:07 < invzim> leafing through the datasheet stuff now, may be some extra hw stuff needed to use the internal hs phy
2019-04-19T22:03:50 < invzim> 722 = STM32F722xx, no OTG PHY HS
2019-04-19T22:03:51 < invzim> tf
2019-04-19T22:04:47 < invzim> USB OTG HS with the ULPI on the STM32F722xx devices and with integrated HS PHY on the STM32F723xx devices.
2019-04-19T22:05:21 < invzim> not that I'm using HS, but assume it does fuckall without ulpi then
2019-04-19T22:07:00 < mawk> ok invzim so you assigned a lower priority (= higher number) to the usb interrupt than to the time base invzim 
2019-04-19T22:07:24 < mawk> if that's not the case you should do it
2019-04-19T22:07:26 < mawk> usb is time sensitive
2019-04-19T22:07:37 < mawk> you can't risk blocking the time base with useless things
2019-04-19T22:08:40 < invzim> The USB OTG HS supports both full-speed and high-speed operations. It
2019-04-19T22:08:42 < invzim> integrates the transceivers for full-speed operation (12 Mbit/s)
2019-04-19T22:09:16 < invzim> I'm trying to connect two usb devices in fs to an stm32f722
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2019-04-19T22:09:28 < mawk> yeah but what about the irq priority ?
2019-04-19T22:09:30 < invzim> datasheets etc are a little vague about it
2019-04-19T22:09:39 < mawk> usb datasheet asks for higher priority of time base/systick
2019-04-19T22:09:39 < invzim> I'll have a peek :)
2019-04-19T22:10:11 < invzim> it's not that it's kind of working, it's completely dead and not firing anything when a device is connected
2019-04-19T22:11:49 < qyx> no SAI in libopencm3 :(
2019-04-19T22:12:15 < invzim> all interrupts are default with preemption priority and subpriority to 0
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2019-04-19T22:12:41 < mawk> priority is inverted, so use like 0 for timebase and 1 for not critical things like USB
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2019-04-19T22:38:11 < qyx> oh I swapped MISO and MOSI
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2019-04-19T22:39:15 < invzim> everybody point and laugh at qyx :)
2019-04-19T22:40:03 <@englishman> ti calls them SOMI and SIMO just ensure confusion
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2019-04-19T22:40:28 < Steffanx> 👆👆🤣
2019-04-19T22:40:48 < qyx> or maybe not
2019-04-19T22:41:00 < qyx> RXONLY mode receives on MOSI, weird
2019-04-19T22:41:11 < qyx> what the hell
2019-04-19T22:41:20 < qyx> but in master RXONLY it receives on MISO
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2019-04-19T22:44:12 < qyx> maybe I can use BIDIMODE=1, BIDIOE=0
2019-04-19T22:44:52 < bitrot> BIDIMODE=1, BIDIOE=0 receives on MOSI
2019-04-19T22:45:19 < bitrot> it just requires the DR to be empty before it can receive
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2019-04-19T22:46:11 < qyx> I also need to provide the clock
2019-04-19T22:46:23 < rajkosto> the clock is provided in master mode
2019-04-19T22:46:29 < rajkosto> regarldess of other settings
2019-04-19T22:46:53 < qyx> the clock is output in RXONLY as soon as I enable the SPI
2019-04-19T22:46:57 < rajkosto> in BIDIMODE=0 its whenever you write to DR, in BIDIMODE=1 its whenever DR is empty (read it to clear it out)
2019-04-19T22:46:58 < qyx> but how in bidimode
2019-04-19T22:47:08 < rajkosto> read out DR and another 8 or 16 bits will clock out
2019-04-19T22:47:08 < qyx> uh oh
2019-04-19T22:47:23 < qyx> co if I keep reading ot keeps outputting clock on SCK
2019-04-19T22:47:37 < qyx> and shifting data in from MOSI
2019-04-19T22:47:38 < qyx> great
2019-04-19T22:49:55 < rajkosto> its actually so fast you might not have a chance to stop it
2019-04-19T22:50:23 < rajkosto> if you are switching between OE=1 and OE=0
2019-04-19T22:50:34 < qyx> no, I need to capture PDM mic
2019-04-19T22:50:43 < qyx> I just need some clock
2019-04-19T22:50:47 < qyx> and get some bits in
2019-04-19T22:50:50 < rajkosto> reading out DR will actually usually clock out 2x DR width
2019-04-19T22:51:05 < qyx> I have set 8bit mode
2019-04-19T22:51:07 < rajkosto> because there is a shadow shift register
2019-04-19T22:51:09 < rajkosto> that gets the data
2019-04-19T22:51:11 < rajkosto> then DR gets that data
2019-04-19T22:51:18 < rajkosto> and when DR  gets that data the shadow register is empty again
2019-04-19T22:51:19 < qyx> and 8bit threshold on the fifo
2019-04-19T22:51:22 < rajkosto> so it clocks out another 8 or 16 bit
2019-04-19T22:52:10 < rajkosto> so i had to do this https://pastebin.com/Z3t0A2sR
2019-04-19T22:52:28 < rajkosto> disabling spi before RXNE to stop it from clocking out more than i wanted
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2019-04-19T23:24:11 < kakimir> PaulFertser: forgot to get usb hub.. I think i might try to use raspi as debugger
2019-04-19T23:56:50 < kakimir> okay I bought a computer
2019-04-19T23:56:56 < kakimir> actual PC
--- Day changed Sat Apr 20 2019
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2019-04-20T00:04:04 < scrts> dongs: what chip do u use there for typec to DP?
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2019-04-20T00:49:53 < mitrax> there's something that eludes me about how the linker works, https://pastebin.com/h83ZuuSb (see comment before the .persistent section), i can't put that section at the begining of RAM (before .data) without having the binary padded with zero, i don't get it
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2019-04-20T01:18:22 < mitrax> what's weird is the map file shows the sections at the expected addresses
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2019-04-20T01:57:56 < bitmask> what is this samsung galaxy fold ridciulousness
2019-04-20T01:59:20 < kakimir> nothing unexpected
2019-04-20T01:59:57 < kakimir> should buy one before they stop making them
2019-04-20T02:00:07 < kakimir> as collectable
2019-04-20T02:00:24 < kakimir> still wrapped and shiet
2019-04-20T02:04:00 < bitmask> heh
2019-04-20T02:36:42 < mawk> what's the best class for my super pro usb device ? for simple communication
2019-04-20T02:36:49 < mawk> that neither needs to be bulk or isochronous
2019-04-20T02:36:55 < mawk> virtual com port ? or HID ?
2019-04-20T02:37:03 < mawk> or custom class if I want to be a dick
2019-04-20T02:42:49 < zyp> that obviously depends on what you want to communicate
2019-04-20T02:43:08 < zyp> and what software you would like to have on the host side
2019-04-20T02:44:01 < mawk> well nothing requiring bulk or isochronous
2019-04-20T02:44:11 < mawk> so simple reliable messages
2019-04-20T02:44:26 < zyp> «nothing requiring bulk or isochronous» makes no sense
2019-04-20T02:44:38 < zyp> what do you imagine would require bulk?
2019-04-20T02:45:08 < mawk> printers
2019-04-20T02:45:40 < zyp> bulk is the plainest form of usb traffic, normally you use bulk for stuff that doesn't require anything else
2019-04-20T02:46:22 < mawk> I thought it was for large amount of data
2019-04-20T02:46:29 < mawk> in a manner that guarantees bandwidth for other things
2019-04-20T02:46:50 < mawk> so not bulk would have been small amounts of data, in a status report manner
2019-04-20T02:47:03 < zyp> bulk is «best effort» delivery for any amount of data
2019-04-20T02:48:17 < zyp> interrupt and isochronous both have reserved capacity, bulk gets whatever is left over, hence best effort
2019-04-20T02:48:34 < mawk> I see
2019-04-20T02:50:16 < zyp> so anyway, what nature is the data you have?
2019-04-20T02:50:54 < zyp> if it's text, CDC ACM (i.e. virtual serial) might make sense
2019-04-20T02:51:20 < mawk> it's just a general question, but I imagine small packets of binary data
2019-04-20T02:51:23 < mawk> ah so ACM must be text
2019-04-20T02:51:28 < zyp> no
2019-04-20T02:51:39 < mawk> right
2019-04-20T02:51:44 < zyp> but the disadvantage with virtual serial is that you get a bytestream, like a real serial port
2019-04-20T02:51:59 < mawk> yeah, not cut in messages
2019-04-20T02:52:19 < zyp> it's using bulk transport, but the serial layer on top of it disregards all the framing information in the packets
2019-04-20T02:52:56 < zyp> which is fine enough for text since framing for text usually consists of newlines
2019-04-20T02:53:17 < zyp> but for binary protocols it means you need to add your own framing layer
2019-04-20T02:53:41 < zyp> i.e. you're throwing away a perfectly good framing layer and then have to add a new one on top of it
2019-04-20T02:53:44 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-20T02:55:10 < zyp> HID is control/interrupt based, and you get packets, but you're mostly limited to max 64B packets
2019-04-20T02:56:04 < zyp> it's a good choice if your device is actually anything HID related, and it might be beneficial if you want it to work driver-less on any old windows version
2019-04-20T02:56:19 < zyp> but other than that I'd say shoehorning stuff into HID is bad practice
2019-04-20T02:56:51 < mawk> yeah I get that
2019-04-20T02:57:12 < mawk> my ecigarette works using hid, when I wiresharked it
2019-04-20T02:57:20 < zyp> if you have a custom protocol with binary packets and will be writing your own utility to send and receive them, I'd go with plain bulk
2019-04-20T02:57:22 < mawk> for sending temperature reports and updating firmware
2019-04-20T02:57:57 < zyp> I've got a ton of projects using either custom control requests or plain bulk to communicate custom stuff
2019-04-20T02:58:19 < mawk> and for that no libusb style userspace drivers on windows, you need a driver ?
2019-04-20T02:58:27 < zyp> latest I wrote was for the nrf52840, it takes every radio packet it receives and throws it right onto a bulk pipe
2019-04-20T02:58:36 < mawk> nice
2019-04-20T02:58:37 < zyp> libusb works fine on windows
2019-04-20T02:59:02 < zyp> if you use libusb, the code will run the same on linux, macos and windows
2019-04-20T02:59:10 < mawk> ah good
2019-04-20T02:59:21 < zyp> on windows, libusb is using the winusb api, so your device needs to be bound to the winusb driver
2019-04-20T02:59:31 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-20T02:59:52 < zyp> you can either do that manually with zadig, or you can do some descriptor magic to declare your device as a winusb device
2019-04-20T02:59:59 < zyp> the latter works on win8 and up IIRC
2019-04-20T03:01:21 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/KvnZb <- here's the code I use to receive those nrf packets
2019-04-20T03:01:39 < mawk> ah yeah it's concise
2019-04-20T03:01:39 < mawk> nice
2019-04-20T03:01:59 < mawk> thanks for the info
2019-04-20T03:02:23 < mawk> you use IDs like this ?
2019-04-20T03:02:35 < mawk> I saw some company offering pids if you project is opensource
2019-04-20T03:02:38 < zyp> for testing at home, yes
2019-04-20T03:03:00 < zyp> for the stuff I actually sell, I got official pids from openmoko
2019-04-20T03:03:05 < zyp> probably what you're thinking of
2019-04-20T03:03:10 < mawk> yeah probably
2019-04-20T03:04:02 < zyp> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/openmoko/openmoko-usb-oui/master/usb_product_ids.psv
2019-04-20T03:04:12 < zyp> the four that links to jvnv.net are mine
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2019-04-20T03:09:12 < mawk> and one with HID flashing
2019-04-20T03:09:29 < zyp> both the bootloaders are HID based
2019-04-20T03:09:48 < mawk> ah right
2019-04-20T03:09:59 < zyp> arcin is a HID device anyway, so it made sense to just keep it all HID
2019-04-20T03:10:07 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-20T03:10:18 < zyp> and for cardio I ported the bootloader from the arcin
2019-04-20T03:10:21 < mawk> to not have to be composite
2019-04-20T03:10:25 < zyp> cardio is semi-HID too
2019-04-20T03:10:27 < mawk> I see
2019-04-20T03:10:50 < zyp> as in, I have both HID and non-HID firmwares for it
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2019-04-20T04:43:05 < specing> Guys, if you need cheap stm32 but are fine with BGA... https://www.arrow.com/en/products/stm32f072vbh6/stmicroelectronics
2019-04-20T04:43:15 < specing> 42 cents for one at qty 10
2019-04-20T04:47:37 <@englishman> arent those 0.5mm pitch
2019-04-20T04:47:47 <@englishman> yea
2019-04-20T04:47:49 <@englishman> good luck
2019-04-20T04:49:03 < specing> you can leave inner pins not connected, lol
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2019-04-20T06:06:04 <@englishman> https://www.dallasnews.com/business/technology/2019/04/18/texas-instruments-build-31billion-facility-create-nearly-500-jobs-richardson
2019-04-20T06:06:08 <@englishman> Dallas-based Texas Instruments has chosen Richardson as the site for a $3.1 billion semiconductor facility that's expected to create more than 1488 jobs.
2019-04-20T06:20:43 < rajkosto> der terrk mah jerrrb
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2019-04-20T09:32:56 < ohsix> hello wizards
2019-04-20T09:33:56 < ohsix> anyone know of a decent statistical tool for analyzing files, stuff that can do xor permutations and junk; don't think there's one tool but i'm avoiding writing it as long as i can
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2019-04-20T09:40:03 < ohsix> yara does some neat stuff if you have some plaintext
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2019-04-20T12:38:30 < rajkosto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPfHHls50-w arabsat launch again ? did the one last week fail ?
2019-04-20T12:41:24 < Steffanx> Oh i didnt know about this special winusb descriptor. Its the only way to go  when you dont want to go zadig or the signed driver way zyp?
2019-04-20T12:42:34 < PaulFertser> Or HID
2019-04-20T12:42:39 < PaulFertser> Or use a sane OS.
2019-04-20T12:43:46 < Steffanx> Blebleh PaulFertser. Dont be dongs :P
2019-04-20T12:44:09 < PaulFertser> dongs is more successful than me so probably I should be actually taking after him
2019-04-20T12:46:21 < mitrax> PaulFertser: did you by any chance see the ld script snipet i pasted earlier?
2019-04-20T12:47:14 < PaulFertser> mitrax: nope, sorry
2019-04-20T12:47:51 < PaulFertser> mitrax: I'm not an ld expert, I'm just trying to read the Info manual carefully each time I have something to do with it.
2019-04-20T12:48:18 < Steffanx> Time to become president of GNAA, PaulFertser 
2019-04-20T12:48:42 < Steffanx> And /nick minjet (or something)
2019-04-20T12:48:56 < PaulFertser> mitrax: I think if you define that .persistent area in RAM you also need to tell the linker where to actually store it in flash.
2019-04-20T12:49:49 < PaulFertser> If it's an initialized section.
2019-04-20T12:49:51 < mitrax> PaulFertser: even if it's not initialized? i want to put variables there (actually just a struct) using __atribute__((section(".persistent")))
2019-04-20T12:49:59 < mitrax> unitialized
2019-04-20T12:50:58 -!- gsi__ is now known as gsi_
2019-04-20T12:51:12 < PaulFertser> mitrax: I'd give AT> FLASH a try just for the kicks.
2019-04-20T12:51:42 < PaulFertser> And to see what linker wants to put in there.
2019-04-20T12:52:34 < PaulFertser> Sometimes I'm doing random things but then I'm trying to explain the observed effects carefully, it often gives additional clues.
2019-04-20T12:53:00 < mitrax> i tried that, but the binary was still padded, i'll try again and recheck the map file, what's weird is, if i make the section fixed size, i.e just . = ALIGN(4) + <some_size>; but no actual variable there, i have no issue, the problem occurs as soon as i explicitely place a variable there using __attribute__((section...
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2019-04-20T12:53:43 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I'm afraid I'm not gay enough for that, sorry. dongs should start hosting special "retreat sessions" to teach all that stuff.
2019-04-20T12:55:11 < PaulFertser> I wouldn't be too surprised if it's some obscure LD bug.
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2019-04-20T13:00:27 < mitrax> that's what i'm suspecting... when i compare the map files or the objdump outputs, the only difference is stuff located in the sections that follow (i.e .data and .bss) are offset by the size of .persistent, as expected, and i have no symbol in rom that's located at a huge offset
2019-04-20T13:00:41 < mitrax> anyway, thanks for the suggestions, i'll keep investigating
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2019-04-20T13:06:37 < PaulFertser> I'd also try placing a simple global int in there instead of a struct, to get an additional datapoint.
2019-04-20T13:07:39 < mitrax> i tried that as well, same thing, i tried with a single int, both an int and the struct
2019-04-20T13:08:44 < mitrax> as a workaround i made the section fixed size and i'm using a hardcoded pointer to the begining of the section but that's not convenient, i like to use the same generic linker script for a specific mcu across multiple projects
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2019-04-20T13:23:37 < mitrax> oh wait, actually AT> FLASH does fix it, wtf i was convinced i tried it and that it didn't work
2019-04-20T13:26:17 < mitrax> doesn't make much sense to me as to why it doesn't without, but thanks :)
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2019-04-20T13:38:36 < mitrax> ah without AT> FLASH there's no explicit LMA, it seems ld doesn't like that for the first section that starts in RAM
2019-04-20T13:39:30 < mitrax> .persistent     0x20000000        0x8 
2019-04-20T13:39:34 < mitrax> vs .persistent     0x20000000        0x8 load address 0x080035f8
2019-04-20T13:42:06 < mitrax> good to know... 
2019-04-20T13:42:44 < mitrax> PaulFertser: lunch time bbl, thanks again!
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2019-04-20T14:56:21 < dongs> suuuuuuuuuuup dongs
2019-04-20T15:05:01 < Thorn> hi Thorn
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2019-04-20T15:27:01 < PaulFertser> mitrax: it's strange .bss doesn't need any load address. I wonder what is the context at 0x080035f8 in your case.
2019-04-20T15:30:35 < mitrax> PaulFertser: well .persistent doesn't need any load address if it's put after .data (which has a load address), and 0x080035f8 is the end of the previous section put in rom (.fini_array)
2019-04-20T15:32:42 < PaulFertser> mitrax: but what do 8 bytes there contain? Just zeroes?
2019-04-20T15:34:04 < PaulFertser> mitrax: hm, bss section is special and so your .persistent needs to be special too https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4261220/non-bss-uninitialized-data-section
2019-04-20T15:34:09 < mitrax> PaulFertser: .bss ends up with a load address, although unspecified, .bss            0x20000440      0x1ac load address 0x08003a34, it really seems to occur if the first section that comes first for RAM has no load address
2019-04-20T15:34:14 < mitrax> PaulFertser: just zeroes yeah
2019-04-20T15:34:49 < PaulFertser> mitrax: https://mcuoneclipse.com/2014/04/19/gnu-linker-can-you-not-initialize-my-variable/
2019-04-20T15:36:24 < mitrax> ah
2019-04-20T15:42:30 < mitrax> PaulFertser: i don't get what's the suggested fix though
2019-04-20T15:45:25 < mitrax> there's nothing in my startup asm file related to that section, declaring it is supposed to fix it? cause it doesn't
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2019-04-20T16:19:49 < mitrax> oh well screw it, i'll live with the extra bytes in rom for now 
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2019-04-20T16:23:04 < PaulFertser> mitrax: NOLOAD
2019-04-20T16:23:09 < PaulFertser> For the section in ld script
2019-04-20T16:23:24 < PaulFertser> mitrax: see the last link
2019-04-20T16:23:57 < mitrax> oh sorry i didn't see that last link
2019-04-20T16:24:16 < Sadale> how long does it take for you guys to solder a single 0603 component on PCB?
2019-04-20T16:24:32 < Sadale> It takes me 2 min or so. I wonder if I'm being slow :/
2019-04-20T16:25:23 < mitrax> PaulFertser: finally, yay, thanks a bunch
2019-04-20T16:26:10 < PaulFertser> mitrax: :)
2019-04-20T16:27:45 <@englishman> what tools and technique Sadale
2019-04-20T16:28:16 < Sadale> just a dumb soldering iron.
2019-04-20T16:28:28 <@englishman> I do about 4k parts/hour on my dicknplace so I guess it takes me 1 second
2019-04-20T16:28:31 < Sadale> In fact, perhaps it was 1 minute to me. But I couldn't remember how long it takes.
2019-04-20T16:28:35 < Sadale> s/takes/took
2019-04-20T16:28:40 < Sadale> englishman, what? That's fast.
2019-04-20T16:28:56 < Sadale> what's dicknplace tho
2019-04-20T16:29:20 <@englishman> I suggest getting a cheap hotair station
2019-04-20T16:29:51 < Sadale> anyway not all of the time are spent on soldering. Some time are taken for picking the component manually.
2019-04-20T16:29:52 <@englishman> then you can just touch some solder onto with the iron and heat on the component. super fast
2019-04-20T16:30:16 < Sadale> I see. cool.
2019-04-20T16:32:35 < Sadale> englishman, anyway what's dicknplace??
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2019-04-20T16:35:36 < Steffanx> pick and place lol
2019-04-20T16:35:40 < Sadale> lol
2019-04-20T16:35:50 < Sadale> hey dude... picknplace is cheating...
2019-04-20T16:36:00 < Sadale> At least it isn't something that I have access to :<
2019-04-20T16:36:06  * Sadale is poor. He has no moneh
2019-04-20T16:36:07 < Steffanx> Better learn some dongs before you meet him Sadale
2019-04-20T16:36:26 < Sadale> lol
2019-04-20T16:37:21 < catphish> yay, got my stm32 guitar pedal working :)
2019-04-20T16:37:35 < catphish> all it needs it more memory now to do long loop recordings
2019-04-20T16:37:50 < Steffanx> define: lon
2019-04-20T16:37:51 < Steffanx> g
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2019-04-20T16:38:07 < Sadale> catphish, good job! :)
2019-04-20T16:39:22 < Thorn> TPS63000 doesn't
2019-04-20T16:39:25 < catphish> Steffanx: umm, how long do people normally record loops for? like 16 bars, so, 45 seconds or so
2019-04-20T16:39:26 < Thorn> high current on Vin and some kind of sawtooth on Vout
2019-04-20T16:39:29 < Thorn> wtf again
2019-04-20T16:39:39 < dongs> shitty caps
2019-04-20T16:39:42 < mawk> is usb very complicated ? or is it just that the ST usb library is badly made
2019-04-20T16:39:49 < dongs> the latter
2019-04-20T16:39:51 < mawk> with tons of very similar looking names
2019-04-20T16:39:54 < mawk> ah good
2019-04-20T16:39:57 < catphish> mawk: bit of both
2019-04-20T16:40:11 < catphish> USB is non-trivial, but drivers usually make it pretty easy
2019-04-20T16:41:10 < Thorn> how shitty can they be for it to have a few Ω at the input (measured Vin to GND at an unsoldered chip and it's OL)
2019-04-20T16:41:26 < Thorn> I'm guessing it's my above average soldering skills again
2019-04-20T16:41:38 < catphish> so ideally i want an 8MB RAM, but i think it'll probably be cheaper to use flash
2019-04-20T16:41:49 < mawk> measuring resistance when it's soldered isn't always possible Thorn 
2019-04-20T16:41:53 < mawk> depending on the rest of the circuit
2019-04-20T16:42:49 < Thorn> I solder stuff in portions, there's nothing at the input yet
2019-04-20T16:42:58 < Thorn> except for a 10µF cap
2019-04-20T16:47:41 < dongs> whats your coil
2019-04-20T16:47:56 < dongs> ive seen weird shit with TPS63 when not enough capacitnace on input
2019-04-20T16:48:16 < dongs> like you said, high current draw and just garbage at output
2019-04-20T16:55:27 <@englishman> Sadale: yes a dicker and placer
2019-04-20T16:56:18 <@englishman> I must highly recommend a heat gun though, and they they should be super cheap where you are
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2019-04-20T17:02:34 < catphish> nb, high gain audio amplification + breadboard = such noise
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2019-04-20T17:22:35 < catphish> stm32 digital delay :) https://imgur.com/XCdPwMm
2019-04-20T17:24:00 < BrainDamage> gibson?
2019-04-20T17:25:27 < catphish> http://www.epiphone.com/Products/SG/G-400.aspx
2019-04-20T17:26:08 < catphish> so not the real thing :)
2019-04-20T17:26:32 < BrainDamage> eh, only thing that matters is if it feels good and sounds good, brand be damned
2019-04-20T17:27:24 < catphish> well it was the best thing that fit my budget (i'm really only a beginner) and i really like it
2019-04-20T17:28:11 < catphish> most people sound better than me on a $40 chinese copy, so meh :)
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2019-04-20T18:54:38 < Thorn> dongs: https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Power-Inductors_Changjiang-Microelectronics-Tech-FXL252012-2R2-M_C177250.html
2019-04-20T18:56:16 < Thorn> 10µF X5R @ input
2019-04-20T18:57:40 < specing> Does LCSC have 2 weeks free shipping?
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2019-04-20T19:24:09 < qyx> my tps had also garbage on the output
2019-04-20T19:25:12 < qyx> I had to replace the chip inductor and increase L a bit
2019-04-20T19:26:13 < qyx> those low-inductance buck converters are meh for light loads it seems
2019-04-20T19:27:53 < qyx> I was like uh oh 2MHz switcher, great, I'll just place some random LC filter on the output and feed VDDA directly from it
2019-04-20T19:28:16 < qyx> then uh on 10kHz spikes
2019-04-20T19:29:17 < specing> use an LDO lol
2019-04-20T19:29:20 < qyx> ADC values was jumping over the whole range
2019-04-20T19:29:24 < specing> no problems with spikes there :)
2019-04-20T19:29:37 <@englishman> ldos are for old men lazy cloners
2019-04-20T19:29:40 < qyx> even more fun is with feeding VREF from a buck
2019-04-20T19:40:05 < Thorn> https://e2e.ti.com/support/power-management/f/196/t/368093?High-current-drawn-randomly-by-TPS63000
2019-04-20T19:44:40 < specing> englishman: if you don't need lotsa power ...
2019-04-20T19:45:29 < Thorn> https://e2e.ti.com/support/power-management/f/196/t/622888?tisearch=e2e-sitesearch&keymatch=tps63000
2019-04-20T20:07:08 < Thorn> guess i'm going with an LDO for rev. B lol
2019-04-20T20:07:19 <@englishman> why not both
2019-04-20T20:11:13 < Thorn> why both
2019-04-20T20:12:27 < Thorn> >The IC needs approx. 0.8A (with no soft start implemented). to turn on properly. When the current is restricted on start up (using a bench power supply), e.g. 5V5 @ 0.7Amps, the device fails to start. This collapses the input supply voltage to 2V6 volts whilst current limiting at 0.7A using a bench power supply.
2019-04-20T20:12:38 < Thorn> >In this state the IC continues to pull 0.7Amps indefinitely but no output is provided. The power is being dissipated within the IC
2019-04-20T20:12:43 < Thorn> 👍
2019-04-20T20:15:31 <@englishman> normal
2019-04-20T20:20:50 < qyx> doesn't look much normal
2019-04-20T20:21:45 < Thorn> looks a lot like what I've observed
2019-04-20T20:22:02 < jpa-> qyx: use PWM-only converters for low noise applications, PFM does that annoying low freq noise at low loads
2019-04-20T20:22:13 < Thorn> I need to crank I to 1A on my psu and try again. the board is w/o anyway
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2019-04-20T20:26:08 < Thorn> lol with current limit of 1A it actually starts and runs properly
2019-04-20T20:27:05 < Thorn> and board draws as much current as it did without the TPS (load is mcu + radio chip)
2019-04-20T20:27:48 < Thorn> no more sawtooth on the output, too
2019-04-20T20:28:16 < Thorn> praise Texas Instruments everyone
2019-04-20T20:32:52 < MrMobius> you just need a status LED that consumes 0.8 amps and youll be good
2019-04-20T20:34:07 <@englishman> sounds like it is working as designed
2019-04-20T20:43:57 < qyx> jpa-: I know but that was not an option at 100uA
2019-04-20T20:47:09 < qyx> maybe there are few though, but then I may put a LDO there as well
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2019-04-20T20:59:37 < karlp> englishman: lol at pyramid of the forbidden.
2019-04-20T21:00:04 < karlp> I went back to play it again a few years back, was like, "fuck, this is harder than I remember, did I really struggle through this over and over and over?"
2019-04-20T21:01:19 <@englishman> i beat it btw
2019-04-20T21:01:25 <@englishman> and yeah it was a weird feeling
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2019-04-20T21:55:08 < mawk> would usb be easier if I dump the st lib and try myself ?
2019-04-20T21:55:22 < mawk> I'm used to implementing parsers for various protocols but I don't know about that one
2019-04-20T21:58:25 < jpa-> do you have an usb analyzer (or a logic analyzer that can do it)? developing a custom usb lib without one is going to be annoying
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2019-04-20T22:03:44 < mawk> no, none of these
2019-04-20T22:03:59 < mawk> but I must really expect hardware level errors ?
2019-04-20T22:04:12 < mawk> since I can use wireshark on the computer for any other kind of error
2019-04-20T22:05:37 < mawk> well I have a logic analyzer in my school lab, but it belongs in a museum
2019-04-20T22:11:14 < rajkosto> are there open source usb logic analyzer protocol decoderts
2019-04-20T22:11:23 < rajkosto> for full speed at least
2019-04-20T22:12:35 < zyp> IIRC sigrok has some degree of support
2019-04-20T22:14:05 < zyp> mawk, the problem with wireshark for usb is that usbmon looks at the traffic between the os and the host controller, not the traffic between the host controller and the bus
2019-04-20T22:15:12 < zyp> for every transfer wireshark captures two packets; a URB submit and a URB completion
2019-04-20T22:15:32 < zyp> the latter tells you whether the transfer succeeded or not
2019-04-20T22:16:04 < zyp> but if it doesn't succeed, it tells you pretty much nothing about why not
2019-04-20T22:16:14 < mawk> ah, I see
2019-04-20T22:17:09 < qyx> what for does the ST PDM library need the CRC peripheral
2019-04-20T22:17:16 < qyx> fuk such binary only libraries
2019-04-20T22:17:41 < zyp> disassemble it and look?
2019-04-20T22:21:55 < qyx> it is doing some trick for sure
2019-04-20T22:22:00 < qyx> too lazy for that
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2019-04-20T22:36:01 < Cracki> qyx, maybe counting bits or something? :P
2019-04-20T22:37:13 < Cracki> or maybe some naughty stuff with custom polynomials
2019-04-20T22:39:08 < Cracki> sounds like they use it out of spite >CRC must be enabled in order to unlock the library.
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2019-04-20T22:56:09 < qyx> actually I just need to measure the noise level with the mic
2019-04-20T22:57:11 < qyx> so I though I can simply count zeroes during a second or so
2019-04-20T22:57:22 < qyx> if only AC wasn't a thing
2019-04-20T23:21:56 < Cracki> I think you'll get as many zeroes as ones
2019-04-20T23:25:12 < qyx> you thing right
2019-04-20T23:25:16 < qyx> *think
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2019-04-21T00:51:57 < Cracki> unless something's fucked :P
2019-04-21T00:52:10 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SDud0DSigbePiQxiMWBdCF59e_QmvP9n/view?usp=drivesdk tig machine has now hf ignition working
2019-04-21T00:52:50 < Cracki> kchhht
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2019-04-21T00:57:28 < kakimir> when I received the machine it was totally dead
2019-04-21T00:57:49 < kakimir> now 5 years later everything works
2019-04-21T00:59:21 < scrts> that was quick
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2019-04-21T01:00:32 < Cracki> when you observe a boiling teapot, entropy reverses slower
2019-04-21T01:01:02 < Cracki> (it obviously doesn't)
2019-04-21T01:17:57 < kakimir> old welding machine it rumbles
2019-04-21T01:18:13 < kakimir> coils and shiet resonate when there is load
2019-04-21T01:18:55 < kakimir> probs you could determine amps with just listening to it
2019-04-21T01:41:31 < rajkosto> i mean my soldering iron box vibrates harder when its outputting more amps so thats not unusual
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2019-04-21T01:44:55 < aandrew> kakimir: is that tig or plasma cutter lol
2019-04-21T01:45:04 < mawk> when I touch metal wire when soldering I feel a buzz
2019-04-21T01:45:09 < mawk> when the iron touches the wire too
2019-04-21T01:45:18 < kakimir> aandrew: what really is the difference?
2019-04-21T01:45:19 < mawk> it's probably not extremely well isolated
2019-04-21T01:45:25 < mawk> it's a good thing my home isn't grounded
2019-04-21T01:45:59 < kakimir> with plasma cutter you burn and blow liquid away with air
2019-04-21T01:46:04 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:6ba6:d483:b798:a3e1:56f6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2019-04-21T01:46:16 < kakimir> but it's just a current source
2019-04-21T01:47:07 < kakimir> I think my hoses had a bit air
2019-04-21T01:47:23 < kakimir> clearly the iron starts to burn
2019-04-21T01:50:54 < kakimir> or gas flow is not optimal
2019-04-21T01:53:22 < kakimir> plasma uses arc as heat source to remove material
2019-04-21T01:53:56 < kakimir> tig uses it to apply material from rod you feed to heated area
2019-04-21T01:55:47 < kakimir> TIG, MMA and plasma are CC machines
2019-04-21T01:55:57 < kakimir> Mig is CV machine
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2019-04-21T01:58:30 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO_aLfWZA88 hardbass? for you
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2019-04-21T02:41:27 < kakimir> recommend Fragrance
2019-04-21T02:41:43 < kakimir> no not a movie this time but bottled smell
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2019-04-21T02:42:33 < kakimir> I have Sauvage on my left arm and Armani Code on right hand
2019-04-21T02:43:33 < kakimir> what else to try
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2019-04-21T03:15:44 < Cracki> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51zmtbdW7gL.jpg
2019-04-21T03:46:22 < con3> I'm getting an insanely low pullup resistor value...Just need to check this cause it seems wrong
2019-04-21T03:46:34 < dongs> ?
2019-04-21T03:46:55 < con3> the pullup resistor = Vcc - lowest recognised logic high voltage / current sinked by the pin
2019-04-21T03:47:22 < con3> so this is 3.3 - 2.2 / 8mA
2019-04-21T03:47:27 < dongs> the fuck are y ou even trying to do?
2019-04-21T03:47:27 < con3> so I get 137 ohm?
2019-04-21T03:47:44 < dongs> a pin says needs pullup? stick 10k on there.
2019-04-21T03:47:59 < dongs> unless you're on battery power then calculate resistor divider in the megaohm range
2019-04-21T03:48:17 < dongs> or in general avoid to pullup on battery and pull stuff down
2019-04-21T03:48:44 < con3> dongs: oop sorry, no need to calculate it? just saw a few posts on calculating the value and I was getting weird ass values
2019-04-21T03:49:09 < dongs> calculate for what tho?
2019-04-21T03:49:14 < dongs> i mean wtf are teh requirements?
2019-04-21T03:50:13 < con3> I just want to pull the line up to 3.3V and have it stay at that state unless the gpio pulls it down. Just want it in that known state even during a reset
2019-04-21T03:50:30 < dongs> yeah 10k
2019-04-21T03:50:35 < dongs> and done
2019-04-21T03:50:37 < con3> thanks dongs
2019-04-21T03:54:30 < rajkosto> con3, that calculation si for LEDs
2019-04-21T03:55:02 < rajkosto> for just pulling things up so they are a known value when pin is floating you can use anything from 4.7k to 100k, depends on your requirements
2019-04-21T03:56:51 < con3> thanks for clarifying rajkosto! I appreciate it. Saw it on a post and in the gpio app note from stm for pullups and though it's for logic lines. 
2019-04-21T03:59:31 < rajkosto> can likely get away with 47k with no issues
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2019-04-21T05:20:26 < canavar> hey everyone, trying to write a bootloader for stm32L476RG for learning purposes
2019-04-21T05:21:18 < canavar> how I test my code is; I have the bootloader code that jumps to application address setting msp
2019-04-21T05:22:10 < canavar> I flash this with st-flash: st-flash write bootloader.bin 0x08000000
2019-04-21T05:22:27 < canavar> and I have this blink code that blinks ever second
2019-04-21T05:22:53 < canavar> I flash this with; st-flash write blink.bin 0x08008000
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2019-04-21T05:23:12 < canavar> in bootloader code I set the application address as 0x08008000
2019-04-21T05:23:53 < canavar> I "deinit" hal_rcc and hal before jumping
2019-04-21T05:24:13 < canavar> I set SCB->VTOR to application address
2019-04-21T05:24:44 -!- bonzibuddy [~hamnstar@208.81.6.244] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
2019-04-21T05:24:45 < canavar> but couldn't make it work
2019-04-21T05:25:32 < canavar> anyone knows what I am missing?
2019-04-21T05:31:05 -!- canavar is now known as canaw4r
2019-04-21T05:32:24 < canaw4r> is channel dead? I can't see any activity or people talking
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2019-04-21T05:46:56 <@englishman> well it's 10pm in USA, 4am in Europe on a Saturday night on a holiday weekend
2019-04-21T05:47:09 < Rickta59> do you have a different ld script for the application code canaw4r ?
2019-04-21T05:47:12 <@englishman> as this is a channel full of professionals they are probably not chatting
2019-04-21T05:47:25 < Rickta59> yah just the hobbiest at this hour
2019-04-21T05:48:03 <@englishman> also "couldn't make it work" is not super helpful
2019-04-21T05:48:32 < Rickta59> unless you have a modifided linker script I'm guessing your application code is configured for 0x08000000
2019-04-21T05:48:43 < Rickta59> instead of 0x08008000
2019-04-21T05:49:16 < Rickta59> so your bootloader is 32k?
2019-04-21T05:49:34 <@englishman> probably first flash page size?
2019-04-21T05:49:47 < Rickta59> k * lowly stm32f103c8 user here <<
2019-04-21T05:50:21 < Rickta59> canaw4r ? did you leave
2019-04-21T05:50:24 <@englishman> nothing wrong with that
2019-04-21T05:50:48 <@englishman> yeah maybe he will timeout in a few seconds
2019-04-21T05:51:17 < Rickta59> are there really professional in here ? : )
2019-04-21T05:52:21 < Rickta59> * why are people so obsessed with bootloader code
2019-04-21T05:54:18 <@englishman> yeah plenty of pros
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2019-04-21T05:57:31 < Rickta59> I've finally found a setup I like for doing stm32 dev
2019-04-21T05:57:47 < Rickta59> vscode ( yes even though I'm on linux ) + makefiles
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2019-04-21T05:58:21 < Rickta59> ms seems to have got it running pretty well, enough to make me abandon eclipse and emacs and vi
2019-04-21T05:59:07 < fenugrec> why do people always pick the wheel when they want to (re)invent something for "educational purposes"
2019-04-21T05:59:39 < Rickta59> i mean as far as education go, i guess doing a bootloader would help you learn a lot
2019-04-21T05:59:41 < fenugrec> aren't there enough worthwhile projects already, equally educational but vastly more gratifying
2019-04-21T05:59:52 <@englishman> that add-on for vscode worked fine
2019-04-21T05:59:56 <@englishman> even though it uses gcc
2019-04-21T06:00:03 < Rickta59> which addon?
2019-04-21T06:00:16 < Rickta59> the c/c++ one?
2019-04-21T06:00:28 <@englishman> visualgdb
2019-04-21T06:00:32 < Rickta59> yeah well gcc for me is a given
2019-04-21T06:00:40 < Rickta59> i haven't tried that ..
2019-04-21T06:00:45 < rajkosto> visualgdb is not for vscode its for the full vs
2019-04-21T06:00:46 <@englishman> try it
2019-04-21T06:00:47 < fenugrec> dunno, I wrote a bootloader because I absolutely had to; I would've preferred working on more profitable stuff than learning the internals of flash routines and all that garbage
2019-04-21T06:00:48 < rajkosto> so no linux
2019-04-21T06:00:50 < Rickta59> i'm messing with the vscode not really visual studio
2019-04-21T06:00:56 < rajkosto> i use vscode for embedded projects with normal arm compilers just fine
2019-04-21T06:01:03 < fenugrec> anyway, it's way past rant-o'clock here
2019-04-21T06:01:05 < rajkosto> it has its own c++ plugin that uses clang for parsing and such
2019-04-21T06:01:07 < Rickta59> and i'm on linux so visugdb .. i don't think is an option
2019-04-21T06:01:07 <@englishman> it's free, isn't that enough for clueless lunix users
2019-04-21T06:01:24 < canaw4r> @Rickta59 no, I was trying to make it work
2019-04-21T06:01:40 < Rickta59> ok so is your code uploaded someplace canaw4r ?
2019-04-21T06:01:48 <@englishman> sorry I'm not up to date on the different vs versions for crippled operating systems
2019-04-21T06:01:58 < canaw4r> I can just upload it
2019-04-21T06:02:02 < canaw4r> wait a second
2019-04-21T06:02:06 < canaw4r> thanks for help btw
2019-04-21T06:02:22 < Rickta59> not sure if i can help but i can surely look
2019-04-21T06:02:32 <@englishman> how is your degel fenugrec
2019-04-21T06:02:40 < fenugrec> tabarnac
2019-04-21T06:02:42 <@englishman> im going to murder a turkey
2019-04-21T06:03:09 < Rickta59> actuall rajkosto it can use gcc for parsing .. that is why i avoided it in the past
2019-04-21T06:03:23 < fenugrec> englishman,  wet AF, amirite. Any floods on your side ?
2019-04-21T06:03:33 <@englishman> of course not
2019-04-21T06:03:43 < Rickta59> https://github.com/RickKimball/bluepill/blob/master/example07/.vscode/c_cpp_properties.json#L15 @ rajkosto 
2019-04-21T06:04:03 <@englishman> when that duproprio listing says RIVERVIEW they really mean 2 YEAR FLOOD ZONE
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2019-04-21T06:04:27 < fenugrec> hahahaha, that's the exact definition
2019-04-21T06:04:29 < rajkosto> Rickta59, it still uses clang for parsing, the compiler path just gives it some parameters to use during
2019-04-21T06:04:30 < rajkosto> i think
2019-04-21T06:04:41 < rajkosto> like defines
2019-04-21T06:05:06 < Rickta59> i don't know anything about clang .. and it wouldn't parse my stuff in the past
2019-04-21T06:05:13 < Rickta59> and now it does since I added that
2019-04-21T06:05:36 < rajkosto> yes you should add the source/uinclude folders to the c_cpp_properties too
2019-04-21T06:05:50 < fenugrec> shopping for housing : "neat, clean, has everything, is affortable... must be a catch <check map> yeap, floodzone..."
2019-04-21T06:05:59 < Rickta59> yeah i have that in there
2019-04-21T06:06:24 < canaw4r> @Rickta59 https://paste.ee/p/Y9IUO#
2019-04-21T06:06:45 < Rickta59> yeah where is your ldscript for the application
2019-04-21T06:06:51 < Rickta59> and your application code
2019-04-21T06:07:02 < fenugrec> canaw4r, you should be generating .map files when you compile, and at least looking at the .lst files for the critical parts
2019-04-21T06:07:27 < canaw4r> just incoming
2019-04-21T06:07:39 < Rickta59>  ... and partial code gets partial answers
2019-04-21T06:08:09 < canaw4r> :) u r right !!!
2019-04-21T06:08:22 < canaw4r> just got excited to get some answers
2019-04-21T06:08:35 < canaw4r> I was hopeless tbh
2019-04-21T06:08:40 < fenugrec> canaw4r, and you won't be able to dodge looking at disasm (objdump) at some point, might as well get used to it if you haven't started. good luck, don't waste too much time. Bootloaders is a solved problem
2019-04-21T06:09:55 < Rickta59> spend some time looking at this code canaw4r 
2019-04-21T06:09:58 < Rickta59> https://github.com/Squonk42/STM32_HID_Bootloader/blob/master/bootloader_F4/Src/main.c#L143
2019-04-21T06:11:24 < Rickta59> probably not exactly what you want .. L4 may be different
2019-04-21T06:16:25 < Rickta59> did we lose you canaw4r ?
2019-04-21T06:17:39 < Rickta59> ok, well if you come back here is how I would approach it ..
2019-04-21T06:18:17 < Rickta59> I would get a debugger going
2019-04-21T06:18:25 < canaw4r> coming :)
2019-04-21T06:18:26 < canaw4r> https://paste.ee/p/rFWuy
2019-04-21T06:18:31 < Rickta59> i would be loading the bootloader code in the debugger
2019-04-21T06:18:52 < canaw4r> I think ld is the wrong part of the equation
2019-04-21T06:19:03 < canaw4r> pasting ld as well right now
2019-04-21T06:19:28 < Rickta59> isn't st-flash the serial code loader thing?
2019-04-21T06:19:33 < Rickta59> don't you have an stlink?
2019-04-21T06:19:46 < Rickta59> jlink?
2019-04-21T06:19:49 < Rickta59> some debugger?
2019-04-21T06:20:16 < canaw4r> I have st-link and can check the addresses from st-link
2019-04-21T06:20:27 < Rickta59> why aren't you using the st-link?
2019-04-21T06:20:29 < canaw4r> st-flash is a part of st-link package I think
2019-04-21T06:20:37 < canaw4r> I usually use openocd
2019-04-21T06:20:41 < Rickta59> ok
2019-04-21T06:20:55 < canaw4r> but couldn't figure out how to flash specific address from openocd
2019-04-21T06:20:58 < Rickta59> so write a small blink program that is setup to run from 0x08008000
2019-04-21T06:21:08 < Rickta59> you have to do that in your linker script
2019-04-21T06:21:31 < Rickta59> all the code you write and use with this bootloader is going to have to link differently
2019-04-21T06:21:43 < Rickta59> the bootloader runs from 0x08000000
2019-04-21T06:22:21 < Rickta59> if you arm-none-eabi-objdump -CS yourblinkapp.elf | less
2019-04-21T06:22:31 < canaw4r> this is the ld btw https://paste.ee/p/NCI5X
2019-04-21T06:22:33 < Rickta59> does it start at 0x08000000
2019-04-21T06:22:40 < canaw4r> just checking now
2019-04-21T06:22:49 < Rickta59> that is the apolication link script?
2019-04-21T06:23:17 < Rickta59> if so change
2019-04-21T06:23:19 < Rickta59> FLASH (rx)      : ORIGIN = 0x8000000, LENGTH = 1024K
2019-04-21T06:23:23 < Rickta59> to 
2019-04-21T06:23:39 < Rickta59> FLASH (rx)      : ORIGIN = 0x08008000, LENGTH = 1024K-32K
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2019-04-21T06:24:38 < Rickta59> and get a debugger .. and step through .. add breakpoints
2019-04-21T06:25:05 < canaw4r> I still flash bootloader to 0x0800000 right?
2019-04-21T06:25:11 < canaw4r> it will not change
2019-04-21T06:25:20 < Rickta59> yes otherwise when the chip boots up .. where would it go
2019-04-21T06:25:37 < Rickta59> it is going to load whatever is at 0x08000000 as the boot vector table
2019-04-21T06:25:57 < Rickta59> if there is nothing there . it would just do nothing
2019-04-21T06:26:16 < Rickta59> or if there is garbage left over it will jump into whatever is there
2019-04-21T06:26:41 < Rickta59> the idea .. the bootloader is always there
2019-04-21T06:26:50 < Rickta59> and it decides what to do at start
2019-04-21T06:27:11 < Rickta59> maybe you have never loaded an app so it should just sit there waiting till you give it a program
2019-04-21T06:27:31 < Rickta59> or maybe there is garbage at 0x08008000 ..
2019-04-21T06:27:43 < Rickta59> you probably should check if the top of stack is a valid ram address
2019-04-21T06:27:57 < Rickta59> and that the reset vector is a valid flash address
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2019-04-21T06:32:58 < canaw4r> thank you a lot @Rickta59! still couldn't make it work but I feel I am getting closer with your help
2019-04-21T06:33:20 < Rickta59> do simple stuff first
2019-04-21T06:33:30 < Rickta59> write a dead simple bootloader that doens't load anything
2019-04-21T06:33:47 < Rickta59> just starts up and jumps to some code you locate at 0x08000000
2019-04-21T06:33:48 < canaw4r> 1- bootloader that only jumps to 0x08008000
2019-04-21T06:34:05 < Rickta59> right ... then write a simple blink app
2019-04-21T06:34:15 < canaw4r> 2- blink code with ldscript : FLASH (rx)      : ORIGIN = 0x08008000, LENGTH = 1024K
2019-04-21T06:34:15 < Rickta59> that loads at 0x08008000
2019-04-21T06:34:26 < Rickta59> use gdb and openocd to load that into flash
2019-04-21T06:34:38 < canaw4r> not st-flash? 
2019-04-21T06:34:47 < Rickta59> st-flash isn't a debugger right?
2019-04-21T06:34:53 < canaw4r> no its not
2019-04-21T06:34:57 < Rickta59> you want to use a debugger .. arm-none-eabi-gdb
2019-04-21T06:35:02 < Rickta59> and openocd with the stlink
2019-04-21T06:35:05 < canaw4r> ok, I will learn that
2019-04-21T06:35:16 < Rickta59> load up your bootloader app
2019-04-21T06:35:23 < Rickta59> then load up your blink app
2019-04-21T06:35:44 < Rickta59> examine memory
2019-04-21T06:35:54 < Rickta59> make sure your bootapp is still there at 0x08000000
2019-04-21T06:36:00 < Rickta59> and that the blink is there too
2019-04-21T06:36:06 < Rickta59> with gdb that is easy
2019-04-21T06:36:14 < Rickta59> then try your test
2019-04-21T06:36:31 < Rickta59> if that works .. then move on to loading over serial or usb or whatever comm channel you are using
2019-04-21T06:36:35 < Rickta59> and do the same test 
2019-04-21T06:36:38 < canaw4r> any link to learn gdb with stm32?
2019-04-21T06:36:47 < Rickta59> doesn't have to be gdb
2019-04-21T06:36:52 < Rickta59> what are you coding in?
2019-04-21T06:36:57 < Rickta59> atollic?
2019-04-21T06:37:05 < canaw4r> so custom, generally in vim
2019-04-21T06:37:06 < Rickta59> the ac6 thing?
2019-04-21T06:37:13 < Rickta59> so no debugger?
2019-04-21T06:37:13 < canaw4r> with the help of cmake+ninja
2019-04-21T06:37:21 < canaw4r> no unfortunately
2019-04-21T06:37:29 < canaw4r> so the problem is, I have a project
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2019-04-21T06:37:36 < Rickta59> from cube?
2019-04-21T06:37:54 < canaw4r> and we build things from cube and make it work with platformio
2019-04-21T06:38:11 < Rickta59> ah .. platformio .. but they want to charge to debug yes?
2019-04-21T06:38:19 < canaw4r> yeah thats the problem
2019-04-21T06:38:27 < Rickta59> no platformio is the problem :)
2019-04-21T06:38:34 < canaw4r> I will probably move away from platformio
2019-04-21T06:38:59 < Rickta59> in my makefile
2019-04-21T06:39:01 < Rickta59> i use this:
2019-04-21T06:39:03 < canaw4r> just made it compile with ninja without platformio, but couldnt find time to make it wholly work
2019-04-21T06:39:04 < Rickta59> https://github.com/RickKimball/bluepill/blob/master/example07/Makefile#L137
2019-04-21T06:39:30 < canaw4r> nice one
2019-04-21T06:39:37 < canaw4r> I will look at it
2019-04-21T06:39:50 < canaw4r> thanks a lot Rickta!
2019-04-21T06:40:08 < Rickta59> https://hackaday.com/2017/03/30/the-2-32-bit-arduino-with-debugging/
2019-04-21T06:40:20 < Rickta59> that is a fairly decent article on gdb
2019-04-21T06:40:31 < Rickta59> but he uses that other gdb proxy
2019-04-21T06:40:34 < Rickta59> instead of openocd
2019-04-21T06:40:49 < Rickta59> * st-util
2019-04-21T06:41:18 < Rickta59> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-MbC9N5U7o
2019-04-21T06:41:19 < canaw4r> great one though
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2019-04-21T06:41:40 < Rickta59> you can ignore all the stuff about stm32duino
2019-04-21T06:41:58 < canaw4r> yeah figured the idea, I was using openocd as server
2019-04-21T06:42:04 < canaw4r> telnet into it
2019-04-21T06:42:05 < Rickta59> just compile your code as normal and invoke the gdb server and arm-none-eabi-gdb
2019-04-21T06:42:58 < canaw4r> much appreciated Rickta!
2019-04-21T06:43:05 < Rickta59> https://youtu.be/D-MbC9N5U7o?t=253 that is where he starts talking about debugging
2019-04-21T06:43:20 < Rickta59> if you are using windows .. well you are on your own
2019-04-21T06:44:32 < canaw4r> linux forever :D
2019-04-21T06:44:50 < canaw4r> for the last 18 years
2019-04-21T06:45:21 < Rickta59> k then that example i gave you will work 
2019-04-21T06:45:55 < canaw4r> seems he explains everything pretty neat and clear
2019-04-21T06:46:59 < Rickta59> https://dpaste.de/AVfd
2019-04-21T06:47:13 < Rickta59> for you it will be l4x.cfg probably
2019-04-21T06:47:20 < Rickta59> the target
2019-04-21T06:48:22 < Rickta59> stm32l4x.cfg
2019-04-21T06:49:14 < canaw4r> you are more than helpful!
2019-04-21T06:50:58 < Rickta59> are you using vscode canaw4r ?
2019-04-21T06:51:14 < canaw4r> no, spacemacs
2019-04-21T06:51:35 < canaw4r> still couldn't deal with M$ phobia
2019-04-21T06:52:14 < Rickta59> yeah i've only subcumbed in the last week after ignoring it for 20 years
2019-04-21T06:52:43 < canaw4r> :DDD
2019-04-21T06:52:59 < canaw4r> I appreciate "language-server" 
2019-04-21T06:53:02 < Rickta59> succumbed
2019-04-21T06:53:21 < Rickta59> https://i.imgur.com/W0cMhlO.png you can get that going for free
2019-04-21T06:53:23 < canaw4r> I can see that almost major ide jumped into it
2019-04-21T06:54:51 < Rickta59> you add the extension "Native Debug" by WebFreak
2019-04-21T06:56:21 < canaw4r> I will look into it
2019-04-21T07:00:36 < canaw4r> so it is 7.00 AM now, I should probably get some sleep. I will re-read what you have written for me @Rickta59, thanks a lot, really, much appreciated for sincere responses
2019-04-21T07:00:46 < Rickta59> np tc
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2019-04-21T07:25:54 <@englishman> https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/zxDaVgypvkdIEpkKi70GN04UBu4=/1800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16178236/fold5.jpg
2019-04-21T07:25:54 <@englishman> TBD mAh (TBD Wh)
2019-04-21T07:25:56 <@englishman> good job samsung
2019-04-21T07:27:51 <@englishman> https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/TAfYs_lVTrkFdP9cIj7jTV1mC6s=/1800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16177274/Galaxy_Fold_Jelly.gif
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2019-04-21T08:28:44 < rajkosto> englishman, this just reminds me of eyefinity
2019-04-21T08:28:50 < rajkosto> and makes me sad
2019-04-21T08:29:03 < rajkosto> at least now with DP multi-panel-specification whatever they DO keep in sync
2019-04-21T08:29:33 <@englishman> what do you expect from amd tho
2019-04-21T08:29:40 <@englishman> that is a $2k phone
2019-04-21T08:29:41 < rajkosto> it was the same on nvidia surround
2019-04-21T08:30:00 < rajkosto> the only way to have multiple display outputs synced up was with expensive Quadro and the sync card
2019-04-21T08:30:08 < rajkosto> until DP MTP came along
2019-04-21T08:30:48 <@englishman> idk none of that affected my irc usage
2019-04-21T08:31:14 < rajkosto> its only relevant if you have things across both the screens as you would in eyefinity scenarios
2019-04-21T08:31:18 < rajkosto> like a game
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2019-04-21T09:19:30 < dongs> Boot from system memory: the system memory is aliased in the boot memory space
2019-04-21T09:19:31 < dongs> (0x0000 0000), but still accessible from its original memory space (0x1FFF EC00 on
2019-04-21T09:19:33 < dongs> STM32F03x and STM32F05x devices, 0x1FFF C400 on STM32F04x devices, 0x1FFF
2019-04-21T09:19:36 < dongs> C800 on STM32F07x and 0x1FFF D800 on STM32F09x devices).
2019-04-21T09:19:36 < dongs> can i assume this is the boot vector place?
2019-04-21T09:19:42 < dongs> this is from f0.. RM
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2019-04-21T09:49:02 < qyx> I think you can reconfigure the aliasing if you want custom vectors
2019-04-21T09:49:22 < qyx> if you boot from flash, the flash is aliased tjere
2019-04-21T09:49:29 < qyx> or waht are you asking
2019-04-21T09:50:50 < dongs> i meant is that the addres to jump to if i wanted to goto rom bootloader
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2019-04-21T10:06:02 < qyx> yeah I assume so
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2019-04-21T11:09:22 < Thorn> dongs have you seen my blog about tps63000
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2019-04-21T11:46:31 < karlp> why wasn't canavar using their bootloader to flash their applicaiton?
2019-04-21T11:46:43 < karlp> instead of hoping that a second write with stlink didn't upset anything.
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2019-04-21T13:34:51 < dongs> Thorn: yes and replied
2019-04-21T13:34:54 < dongs> did you figure out what happen?
2019-04-21T13:35:15 < dongs> oh
2019-04-21T13:35:20 < dongs> not the cause about softstart
2019-04-21T13:36:17 < Thorn> it started up fine when I disabled current limiting on my psu (set it to 1A)
2019-04-21T13:37:24 < Thorn> when the supply is current limited it goes into a fuck you mode, consumes lots of current (that guy on TI forums observed up to 1.7A iirc) almost none of which is passed on to the load
2019-04-21T13:38:05 < Thorn> so basically it relies on the li-ion being able to supply a large current spike at startup
2019-04-21T13:38:30 < dongs> fucking great.
2019-04-21T13:38:32 < dongs> yeah ive seen it happen
2019-04-21T13:38:36 < dongs> eaxctly in that kinda situation too
2019-04-21T13:38:37 < Thorn> if the design is powered from a 500mA USB port or if the cable is Chinese, good luck lol
2019-04-21T13:38:39 < dongs> working off a current limited shit
2019-04-21T13:38:52 < dongs> but, i fixed it by adding more caps at input
2019-04-21T13:39:00 < dongs> some tantal shit
2019-04-21T13:39:21 < karlp> so what, that lets the source fill up the caps first, then the caps give enough rush in to start the tps63 properly?
2019-04-21T13:39:27 < Thorn> so it was on the order of 100µF or more?
2019-04-21T13:39:28 < dongs> guess so
2019-04-21T13:39:36 < dongs> Thorn: no, 47uF x 2 i think
2019-04-21T13:39:39 < Thorn> also tantals leak a lot, not very good for low power
2019-04-21T13:39:39 < dongs> iirc..
2019-04-21T13:39:41 < dongs> lemme find that board
2019-04-21T13:39:42 < karlp> shit sounds awkward.
2019-04-21T13:39:45 < dongs> ah, its not for low power
2019-04-21T13:39:52 < dongs> this shit was jsut ghettopoe-like powered thing
2019-04-21T13:41:06 < dongs> Thorn: yeah 2x 47 tantal and 10uf ceramic.
2019-04-21T13:41:10 < dongs> fixed the stuff.
2019-04-21T13:42:13 < Thorn> I ordered 10 more pcs of this crap IC before I tested it. that was a mistake
2019-04-21T13:42:18 < dongs> eh
2019-04-21T13:42:20 < dongs> it works fine
2019-04-21T13:42:30 < karlp> yeah, when you start dumping mor ecaps on it.
2019-04-21T13:42:43 < karlp> I'm with thorn, shit's borked.
2019-04-21T13:43:02 < dongs> i mean getting stuck @ 1.7A drawing is certainly borked
2019-04-21T13:43:37 < dongs> how are those chipcoils
2019-04-21T13:43:45 < dongs> ive always been using wirewound stuff 3012 or wahtever size
2019-04-21T13:44:22 < dongs> oh its still wirewounf
2019-04-21T13:44:26 < dongs> just smaller pkg
2019-04-21T13:45:10 < dongs> got a pic of that inductor thorn
2019-04-21T13:45:12 < dongs> looks nice
2019-04-21T13:46:03 < Thorn> if you can handle my attempts @ rework the TPS https://imgur.com/a/Kk5CRc1
2019-04-21T13:46:24 < dongs> L1 is the thing? ok
2019-04-21T13:48:18 < dongs> 7.4.1 Soft-Start and Short Circuit Protection
2019-04-21T13:48:25 < dongs> no actual mention of anything soft-start related
2019-04-21T13:49:30 < Sadale> oops that's burnt :(
2019-04-21T13:49:35 < dongs> no u
2019-04-21T13:49:50 < Sadale> isn't it?
2019-04-21T13:49:53 < dongs> no
2019-04-21T13:50:12 < Sadale> Anyway I'm considering getting a hot air gun. :3
2019-04-21T13:50:39 < Thorn> it's not burnt, it's flux residue
2019-04-21T13:51:27 < dongs> thorn
2019-04-21T13:51:31 < dongs> do you have that clear pro flux
2019-04-21T13:51:43 < dongs> thats in all those russian ipohone reball vids
2019-04-21T13:51:54 < dongs> i tried to get chinagirl to buy me some
2019-04-21T13:51:58 < dongs> but apparently it cant be shipped by courier??
2019-04-21T13:52:00 < dongs> i was like wut
2019-04-21T13:52:40 < Thorn> is it efd / nordson / fluxplus?
2019-04-21T13:52:54 < Thorn> or which one
2019-04-21T13:53:58 < dongs> i donno
2019-04-21T13:53:59 < dongs> uh
2019-04-21T13:54:43 < Sadale> h. Me dumb.
2019-04-21T13:54:54 < dongs> https://youtu.be/4lpeFQIIUsA?t=63
2019-04-21T13:54:55 < dongs> this
2019-04-21T13:55:56 < dongs> it becomes liquid and flows all the shit around it
2019-04-21T13:57:54 < Thorn> no idea what flux that is
2019-04-21T13:58:11 < Thorn> my aliexpress flux also becomes liquid when hot
2019-04-21T13:58:37 < Thorn> (but doesn't boil)
2019-04-21T14:08:08 < Mangy_Dog> tinest  of bgas
2019-04-21T14:08:47 < Steffanx> no shoes?
2019-04-21T14:09:17 < Steffanx> Sorry, a very bad inside joke.
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2019-04-21T14:37:30 < Thorn> what charge termination current should I set for a cheap 18650
2019-04-21T14:38:07 < specing> Thorn: whatever you want
2019-04-21T14:38:33 < specing> I set it between 50 and 150 mA
2019-04-21T14:38:36 < Thorn> what do I want?
2019-04-21T14:39:06 < Thorn> does that include the load?
2019-04-21T14:39:20 < specing> the load?
2019-04-21T14:39:48 < Thorn> stuff powered by the battery 
2019-04-21T14:40:52 < Thorn> I'm using mcp73871  which has power path management stuff so charging current is separate from load current
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2019-04-21T14:43:18 < specing> no, these are bare 18650 placed into an external charger
2019-04-21T15:04:17 < karlp> I love when the reference design uses different decoupling than the datasheet recommends.
2019-04-21T15:04:21 < karlp> thanks atmel.
2019-04-21T15:06:09 < Steffanx> *microchip :P
2019-04-21T15:07:08 < karlp> well, this is an atmel part and design, and it's old enough it woudl have been atmel.
2019-04-21T15:07:39 < karlp> it's only decoupling, probably doesn't matter :)
2019-04-21T15:08:24 < karlp> datasheet says 100n+10u on dvdd/dgnd, and 100n on vdd188/dgnd.  ref design has 100n on dvdd/dgnd and 100n+10u on vdd188/dgnd.
2019-04-21T15:16:08 < karlp> I wonder if the four pins "Test" and "IC1,2,3" are actually jtag or something
2019-04-21T15:18:51 < dongs> http://www.fallingfalling.com/
2019-04-21T15:20:29 < Steffanx> https://theuselessweb.com/ ?
2019-04-21T15:20:37 < dongs> how did you know
2019-04-21T15:24:42 < Steffanx> its what i do on a boring sunday evening.
2019-04-21T15:50:24 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO_aLfWZA88 encore
2019-04-21T15:50:43 < kakimir> hard bass
2019-04-21T15:52:26 < kakimir> Steffanx: what is you choise of fragrance?
2019-04-21T15:59:02 < Steffanx> Tom Ford.
2019-04-21T16:02:29 < aandrew> my mg chemicals tacky flux is amaze
2019-04-21T16:05:01 < aandrew> chances are that you're using MLCCs for bypass and the bias derating is giving you way different bypass capacitance than you expect anyway
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2019-04-21T16:49:56 < qyx> my charger is dead https://i.imgur.com/tVKYh75.png
2019-04-21T16:50:24 < specing> F
2019-04-21T16:50:42 < qyx> it smells, apparently something is blown
2019-04-21T16:51:45 < specing> which charger is it?
2019-04-21T16:52:20 < qyx> LT3652
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2019-04-21T17:33:19 < Steffanx> toooo much sun qyx?
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2019-04-21T17:39:42 < Sadale> F
2019-04-21T17:40:41 < Steffanx> no ty
2019-04-21T17:50:22 < aandrew> qyx: how are you graphing that, just csv into excel?
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2019-04-21T18:26:45 < qyx> aandrew: stm32->mqtt->python script->influx->grafana
2019-04-21T18:27:52 < qyx> Steffanx: yeah battery SoC 40%, too much sun and the box was on direct sunlight
2019-04-21T18:28:07 < qyx> thats an example where unit tests are not enough
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2019-04-21T19:31:32 < aandrew> I gotta learn grafana
2019-04-21T19:31:39 < aandrew> I was using carbonite and something else for a while
2019-04-21T19:32:04 < aandrew> how is the stm32 spitting mqtt to the world, ethernet, wifi, something else?
2019-04-21T19:36:35 <@englishman> esp32 of course
2019-04-21T19:37:25 <@englishman> grafana is pretty neat once you get used to the interface which is both cumbersome and dense
2019-04-21T19:37:37 <@englishman> like it's not always obvious where you have to click to find what you want
2019-04-21T19:37:57 < aandrew> right
2019-04-21T19:40:43 < qyx> aandrew: gprs modem
2019-04-21T19:46:44 < invzim> englishman: javascript required?
2019-04-21T19:48:48 < Thorn> I assume these things aren't compliant to any standards? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/POE-Adapter-cable-RJ45-Injector-Splitter-Kit-Tape-Screened-Passive-Power-Over-Ethernet12-48v-Synthesizer-Separator/32931201283.html
2019-04-21T19:50:06 < invzim> Thorn: passive is the keyword you're not looking for that will fry stuff
2019-04-21T19:51:16 < invzim> he, they're not actually claiming to be POE at all :)
2019-04-21T19:52:16 <@englishman> js for what?
2019-04-21T19:52:48 <@englishman> influxdb and grafana are both written in go afaik, and distributed as single file executables
2019-04-21T19:54:00 < Thorn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet#Passive
2019-04-21T19:55:29 < qyx> englishman: most of the grafana is client-side
2019-04-21T19:55:32 < qyx> plugins are js
2019-04-21T19:55:35 < qyx> for example
2019-04-21T20:08:36 < Thorn> looks like both f0 and l0 support usb charger detection
2019-04-21T20:09:50 <@englishman> ah, dono much about grafana
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2019-04-21T20:19:40 < Thorn> why no lpc8xx with usb :/
2019-04-21T21:25:45 < mawk> bitbang it, easy
2019-04-21T21:27:02 < jpa-> or use one of those usb-spi-thingies
2019-04-21T21:27:33 < Thorn> or stm32l0
2019-04-21T21:28:14 < Thorn> but that would be blasphemy
2019-04-21T21:28:18 < mawk> why ?
2019-04-21T21:29:51 < mawk> I have stm32l4, the chip is smaller than it's stm32f1 stlink
2019-04-21T21:29:58 < mawk> it looks hard to solder, I don't know the package name
2019-04-21T21:30:23 < mawk> UFQFPN
2019-04-21T21:30:28 < mawk> can that be done with a heat gun ?
2019-04-21T21:32:36 < Thorn> that's what heat guns are for
2019-04-21T21:33:13 < mawk> but there are ovens also
2019-04-21T21:33:23 < mawk> maybe some things can't be done with the heat gun and only the oven
2019-04-21T21:33:29 <@englishman> nah
2019-04-21T21:37:27 <@englishman> karlp (and also zyp)
2019-04-21T21:37:30 <@englishman> https://www.leviton.com/standalone/LoadCenter/
2019-04-21T21:37:34 < qyx> mawk: I use L4 in QFN32 and F042 in QFN28, both can be done using heatgun
2019-04-21T21:37:50 < qyx> even with an iron if you make a big via under the pad
2019-04-21T21:37:58 < qyx> and a slightly longer pads
2019-04-21T21:38:15 < qyx> heatgun = hot air station
2019-04-21T21:38:46 <@englishman> hot air is much more useful than a small oven imo
2019-04-21T21:38:57 <@englishman> necessary to fix all the fuckups you find in the oven too
2019-04-21T21:40:05 <@englishman> can trip a breaker from your phone
2019-04-21T21:40:07 <@englishman> p cool
2019-04-21T21:45:36 < mawk> so you heat the center bad from behind through the big via
2019-04-21T21:45:55 < mawk> center pad
2019-04-21T21:47:47 < qyx> if no hot air is available, yes, as a last resort
2019-04-21T21:48:53 < qyx> usually there is no need for an ideal thermal performance for a simple MCU
2019-04-21T21:49:40 < Thorn> lpc8 in QFN (and many other ICs) needs center pad connected to gnd
2019-04-21T21:49:56 < Thorn> otherwise they fail in fascinating ways
2019-04-21T21:50:21 < Thorn> lan8720 too
2019-04-21T21:50:36 < qyx> yes, hence the via to make a connection
2019-04-21T21:58:20  * qyx booting android 2.3
2019-04-21T22:02:23 < mawk> super modernity
2019-04-21T22:02:37 <@englishman> STM32 always puts that center pad on qfn
2019-04-21T22:02:54 <@englishman> eliminating the size advantage when routing over qfp
2019-04-21T22:03:37 < qyx> no, QFN28 is without the center pad
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2019-04-21T22:20:33 <@englishman> oh nice
2019-04-21T22:20:44 <@englishman> which chips are available in qfn28
2019-04-21T22:20:54 < qyx> F042 for example
2019-04-21T22:21:11 < qyx> but afaik there are multiple F0s
2019-04-21T22:23:09 <@englishman> hmm I thought they were all a) all with EP tho maybe I only checked the qfn32 b) like zero availability
2019-04-21T22:23:16 <@englishman> but that was some years ago
2019-04-21T22:29:12 < Adluc> ruoting qfns on 2 layers instead of lqfp is setting planarity game on hard
2019-04-21T22:29:39 < Adluc> aka. breaking ground as least as possible, and then fuck it, going 4 layers
2019-04-21T22:41:06 < zyp> pff, qfn isn't that much harder to deal with than qfp
2019-04-21T22:44:48 < qyx> fixed my charger, a ferrite bead has evaporated
2019-04-21T22:44:58 < qyx> apparently not 1.5A rated
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2019-04-21T22:59:14 < Adluc> zyp: makes you place vias outside the center of the chip, which cancels the benefits, but depend on application
2019-04-21T22:59:56 < zyp> true
2019-04-21T23:00:19 < zyp> given a choice I also prefer qfp, but rf stuff is generally available in qfn only
2019-04-21T23:00:58 < karlp> aandrew: yeah, ref notes explicitly say, "don't use y5v here dummy"
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2019-04-21T23:02:05 < kakimir> Steffanx, which one?
2019-04-21T23:02:27 < Steffanx> Lol i just googled for a random expensive as hell brand
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2019-04-21T23:11:11 < mawk> trolling steffan
2019-04-21T23:13:33 < kakimir> I know
2019-04-21T23:13:37 < kakimir> which one
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2019-04-21T23:20:18 < Thorn> dunno I've done several projects with lpc824 in qfn32 with pad, most of them using almost all the pins, all on 2 layers, and it's working out pretty well in terms of routing (thanks to mostly freeform pin remapping that stm32 admittedly don't have)
2019-04-21T23:21:47 < qyx> does it have some sort of full matrix?
2019-04-21T23:22:24 < Thorn> yes, for most digital functions
2019-04-21T23:23:27 < Thorn> basically the only thing that needs attention if you don't use analog stuff is 2 dedicated open drain pins (you can use any pins for i2c but those pins can't be driven high)
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--- Day changed Mon Apr 22 2019
2019-04-22T00:27:19 < rajkosto> why did they decide on that vs just making all the pins configurable open drain like stm32
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2019-04-22T00:36:36 < Thorn> 1MHz I2C
2019-04-22T00:36:48 < Thorn> other pins have open drain mode
2019-04-22T00:37:02 < Thorn> but it's not "true"
2019-04-22T00:41:17 < Thorn> BQ24073, RT9519B or MCP73871?
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2019-04-22T00:57:59 < kakimir> PaulFertser: how is your day tommorow?
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2019-04-22T04:47:41 < mawk> if he can answer that question I'll ask him the lottery numbers of tomorrow
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2019-04-22T05:37:52 < dongs> hmm
2019-04-22T05:37:57 < dongs> jump to bootlaoder does nothing
2019-04-22T05:38:04 < dongs> at least doesnt come up with usb
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2019-04-22T05:42:08 < Jak_o_Ombroj> Hmm. If i use a pull down setting on the pin, and have it going to the gate of a MOSFET, the only potential issue is that the speed of turning off will suffer?
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2019-04-22T05:42:29 < dongs> wot? 
2019-04-22T05:42:39 < Jak_o_Ombroj> I forgot to put the gate resistor in the board yesterday.
2019-04-22T05:42:52 < dongs> so in series?
2019-04-22T05:42:53 < dongs> or pulldown
2019-04-22T05:42:57 < Jak_o_Ombroj> Pulldown
2019-04-22T05:43:06 < Jak_o_Ombroj> I also didn't put one in series.
2019-04-22T05:43:26 < dongs> so its nmos?
2019-04-22T05:43:34 < dongs> and off is low
2019-04-22T05:43:51 < Jak_o_Ombroj> correct.
2019-04-22T05:44:02 < dongs> so wehre's the problem? pulldown will make sure its off by default
2019-04-22T05:44:22 < Jak_o_Ombroj> I was just double checking that there wasn't going ot be a porblem.
2019-04-22T05:44:48 < mawk> when filling up the gate capacitance some high current can flow no ?
2019-04-22T05:44:52 < mawk> if you forgot a series resistor
2019-04-22T05:44:55 < mawk> maybe the mcu won't like this
2019-04-22T05:46:44 < dongs> depends what youre switching , if its just led or someshit who cares
2019-04-22T05:47:48 < Jak_o_Ombroj> Well, i am switching with a IRLZ44N, switching a 12V car LED headlight.
2019-04-22T05:47:58 < Jak_o_Ombroj> I'm ot concerned about that side of things, because it didn't break in version 1
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2019-04-22T06:01:48 < dongs> ok this bl jump aint working lols.
2019-04-22T06:01:49 < dongs> the fuck's going on
2019-04-22T06:13:24 < mawk> you reset stuff and everything before jump ?
2019-04-22T06:13:39 < mawk> reset VTOR to bl start address
2019-04-22T06:13:59 < mawk> but maybe it does it itself
2019-04-22T06:17:52 < dongs> donno i see a bunch of shit on the internets and none of htem touches vtor
2019-04-22T06:17:55 < dongs> does f0 even have vtor
2019-04-22T06:18:33 < mawk> ah I don't think so for f0
2019-04-22T06:18:53 < mawk> maybe just disable interrupts then ?
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2019-04-22T06:24:52 <@englishman> f0 is m0 and doesnt have movable vectab
2019-04-22T06:24:57 <@englishman> for that you need m0+ in g0
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2019-04-22T07:05:10 < dongs> wait BEEP
2019-04-22T07:05:12 < dongs> Thorn: abort
2019-04-22T07:06:54 < dongs> AS0A621-H2S6-7H is DDR3
2019-04-22T07:06:55 < dongs> 204pins
2019-04-22T07:06:59 < dongs> rageberry is DDR2, 200pin
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2019-04-22T08:01:55 < Cracki> Jak_o_Ombroj, I do keep wondering the same thing... but the problem with "high" current is for how long it's on. since gate capacitance is rather tiny anyway, the GPIO won't have to endure peak current for long... of course, the more often you switch...
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2019-04-22T08:03:40 < Cracki> since you put the gpio into pushpull mode, turning the fet off shouldn't be a problem... it'll sink as much current as it can source, if not more
2019-04-22T08:04:42 < Cracki> low switching freq is what "just a led or someshit" meant, as opposed to megahertz
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2019-04-22T08:36:53 < Jak_o_Ombroj> ah, yeah.
2019-04-22T08:37:15 < Jak_o_Ombroj> I appreciate that high switching freq won't behave properly unless you consider this side of things more carefully
2019-04-22T08:43:15 < dongs> should i bother powering up my jewtson nano
2019-04-22T08:43:20 < dongs> im not sure what i'd do with it
2019-04-22T08:52:07 < Cracki> shower cam spy drone
2019-04-22T08:52:30 < rajkosto> you bought the 99$ magic embedded board ?
2019-04-22T08:52:48 < rajkosto> it says estimated ship date 29. april or did they already ship out some
2019-04-22T08:53:13 < Cracki> that's their promise if you buy it now
2019-04-22T08:53:35 < Cracki> 472 gflop/s, not bad at all for that power envelope
2019-04-22T08:54:55 < Cracki> if I had any of my "heavier" computer vision stuff ready to run on the laptop, I might have looked into running it on that cute board
2019-04-22T08:56:43 < Cracki> getting it to consume hdmi would be my barrier to entry. that'd require me to know the right chips and how to hook them up to that thing
2019-04-22T08:57:09 < Cracki> I'm aware that hdmi to mipi csi chips exist
2019-04-22T08:58:45 < Cracki> if it's lying around anyway, powering it up to run their samples sounds entertaining at least
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2019-04-22T09:04:30 < dongs> rajkosto: i've had it for like a month
2019-04-22T09:04:58 < rajkosto> buy 6
2019-04-22T09:05:01 < dongs> no
2019-04-22T09:05:04 < dongs> i dont even need 1
2019-04-22T09:05:08 < rajkosto> send it to me
2019-04-22T09:05:09 < rajkosto> i need 6
2019-04-22T09:05:10 < dongs> is gpu in it = 1050?
2019-04-22T09:05:13 < dongs> for what
2019-04-22T09:05:17 < dongs> or like 1030
2019-04-22T09:05:21 < rajkosto> a type of METAL GEAR, if you will
2019-04-22T09:05:34 < dongs> 128 corez
2019-04-22T09:05:34 < rajkosto> is it better than the switch ?
2019-04-22T09:05:40 < rajkosto> should be better than the switch its a TX2
2019-04-22T09:05:54 < dongs> even 1030 is 384 cuda
2019-04-22T09:06:17 < dongs> uh tx2 seems better than nano
2019-04-22T09:06:24 < dongs> https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/buy/jetson-tx2
2019-04-22T09:06:34 < rajkosto> yes but its expensif
2019-04-22T09:07:01 < rajkosto> run vulkan doom on your nano see what fps you get
2019-04-22T09:07:12 < dongs> will it take a lot of work to setup
2019-04-22T09:11:05 < dongs> found a sandicks ultra card
2019-04-22T09:19:36 < dongs> rajkosto: will proper TRM wuill be out for it
2019-04-22T09:19:39 < dongs> like for tx1/tx2
2019-04-22T09:21:10 < dongs> [J25] Power jack for 5V⎓4A power supply. Accepts a 2.1×5.5×9.5 mm plug with
2019-04-22T09:21:11 < dongs> positive polarity
2019-04-22T09:21:16 < dongs> what the fuck does that even mean
2019-04-22T09:25:14 < Thorn> one of the contacts is positive relative to the other
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2019-04-22T09:38:12 < dongs> well, jewtson does fucking nothing
2019-04-22T09:46:42 < rajkosto> center positive i would assume
2019-04-22T09:46:48 < dongs> yah
2019-04-22T09:46:51 < rajkosto> like most plugs that arent satan
2019-04-22T09:46:52 < dongs> doesnt matter, it dosnt work either way
2019-04-22T09:47:13 < dongs> im not downloading that 80meg electron.js abortion to rawwrite a sd card
2019-04-22T09:47:24 < rajkosto> you dont need to
2019-04-22T09:47:26 < dongs> and whatever i wrote with rofus doesnt go past the gayvidia logo
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2019-04-22T09:47:34 < rajkosto> but dont use rufus either
2019-04-22T09:47:36 < dongs> just shows that and polwers off
2019-04-22T09:47:37 < dongs> then waht
2019-04-22T09:47:44 < rajkosto> anything that just does what dd would
2019-04-22T09:47:54 < dongs> yeah which iswhat rufus does
2019-04-22T09:48:02 < rajkosto> nah it tries to repartition and do file copies instead
2019-04-22T09:48:08 < rajkosto> cuz its faster
2019-04-22T09:48:22 < dongs> not when its img
2019-04-22T09:48:50 < rajkosto> you dont have something thats just straight up dd ?
2019-04-22T09:49:11 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-22T09:49:12 < rajkosto> there is dd for windows but the --list stuff is annoying
2019-04-22T09:49:56 < rajkosto> hex workshop Disk menu item has dd-ish functionality with Restore image
2019-04-22T09:50:41 < dongs> nope same shit
2019-04-22T09:53:29 < dongs> using win32diskimager shit
2019-04-22T09:58:35 < dongs> well the boot got slightly further this time
2019-04-22T09:58:47 < dongs> shelving this shit
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2019-04-22T10:26:01 < Jak_o_Ombroj> The tx is connected to the ... rx
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2019-04-22T11:15:39 < jly> LET'S WORK FOR TEXAS
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2019-04-22T12:32:39 < kakimir> PaulFertser: ?
2019-04-22T12:42:03 < Steffanx> kakimir: ?
2019-04-22T12:43:42 < kakimir> steff?
2019-04-22T12:46:39 < qyx> kuklomir pls
2019-04-22T12:47:14 < kakimir> qyx?
2019-04-22T13:06:30 < kakimir> I got openocd built for my new computer
2019-04-22T13:06:40 < kakimir> I run server session
2019-04-22T13:06:45 < kakimir> then what should I do?
2019-04-22T13:06:55 < kakimir> telnet to that server?
2019-04-22T13:11:18 -!- scrts [~quassel@unaffiliated/scrts] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-04-22T13:14:41 < jly> i'd usually do this https://youtu.be/Mks9E7kdhGY?t=65
2019-04-22T13:24:36 < kakimir> nice movie
2019-04-22T13:29:37 < kakimir> is it your favourite jly?
2019-04-22T13:30:26 < jly> it is one
2019-04-22T13:30:55 < kakimir> hey
2019-04-22T13:31:07 < kakimir> you can give me movie recommends
2019-04-22T13:41:09 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkRkuI0ZgX0 here music video
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2019-04-22T14:01:55 < jly> kakimir: I'd recommend the shower rangers
2019-04-22T14:05:49 < Steffanx> Is that porn?
2019-04-22T14:07:58 < kakimir> most likelly
2019-04-22T14:11:15 < Steffanx> Django Unchained is recommended kakimir 
2019-04-22T14:11:22 < Steffanx> Even when youve seen it
2019-04-22T14:11:45 < Steffanx> jly knows
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2019-04-22T14:42:11 < PaulFertser> kakimir: sorry, busy today till evening
2019-04-22T14:42:40 < kakimir> okay
2019-04-22T14:42:42 < kakimir> workday?
2019-04-22T14:48:43 < kakimir> #0 : xmc1100.flash (xmc1xxx) at 0x10000000, size 0x00000000, buswidth 0, chipwidth 0
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2019-04-22T15:01:02 < dongs> chipwidth? more like chimpwidth
2019-04-22T15:04:32 < kakimir> name another cortex chip with no reset pin
2019-04-22T15:04:58 < dongs> well
2019-04-22T15:05:03 < dongs> some TI trash technically has no reset
2019-04-22T15:05:07 < dongs> the CC3310 or wahtever crap
2019-04-22T15:05:14 < dongs> it also has some gayified SWD + custom TI shit
2019-04-22T15:05:18 < dongs> fucking that proprietary faggot shit
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2019-04-22T15:26:50 < qyx> is it wifi or wahta
2019-04-22T15:30:29 < kakimir> I need to check it's configuration
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2019-04-22T15:45:45 <@englishman> dongs rajkosto: balena made a DD tool for Windows that actually works called etcher
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2019-04-22T15:47:36 <@englishman> it's bigger than 80mb tho
2019-04-22T15:49:51 < kakimir> dd - bigger than 80MB
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2019-04-22T15:51:46 < Thorn> why is 1117 called LDO even though it has dropout of 1.2V? http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm1117.pdf
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2019-04-22T15:53:56 < jpa-> because that's lower than 7805's 3.5V
2019-04-22T15:54:26 < jpa-> (also because it's unstable with ceramic caps, which is the true hallmark of LDOs)
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2019-04-22T15:56:43 < Thorn> so modern LDOs aren\t true LDOs?
2019-04-22T15:57:16 < jpa-> they are ultra-hyper-low-dropout-extra-stability-micronanofemtopower-regulators
2019-04-22T15:57:27 < jpa-> oh, and anycap
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2019-04-22T16:15:49 < Thorn> ok thx
2019-04-22T16:22:14 < Thorn> speaking of ultra-hyper-low-dropout and micronanofemtopower, I need to select an LDO to replace the TPS63000 
2019-04-22T16:22:17 <@englishman> lower dropout regulator
2019-04-22T16:24:34 < Thorn> >LDS3985M33R 6V max (only 0.4mV dropout at 1mA load, 150mV at 300mA)
2019-04-22T16:27:24 < kakimir> typical
2019-04-22T16:28:34 < Thorn> SPX3819 340mV @ full current
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2019-04-22T16:32:37 <@englishman> spx3819 is what i put when i really dont care and just need an ldo
2019-04-22T16:34:43 < kakimir> do putty have expiration for trusted hosts?
2019-04-22T16:34:59 < kakimir> or trusted remotes or whatever it's called
2019-04-22T16:37:30 < jpa-> no, ssh keys in general do not have expiration dates
2019-04-22T16:37:51 < jpa-> it would only decrease security to give spurious "unknown key" warnings
2019-04-22T16:42:20 < Thorn> is there a literature on how to properly encrypt a radio protocol? key exchange, authentication, etc.
2019-04-22T16:46:42 -!- MrFahrenheit [~zumbi@unaffiliated/rageofthou] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2019-04-22T16:54:50 < kakimir> jpa-: I'm pretty sure that hosts I have connected before have now begun to create promps to putty for trusting the key or not
2019-04-22T17:00:25 < kakimir> does network have effect to that?
2019-04-22T17:00:48 < kakimir> I have set up new routing and address space
2019-04-22T17:03:13 < kakimir> keys are stored per address or so?
2019-04-22T17:03:21 < qyx> you can check and see
2019-04-22T17:03:26 < qyx> there are multiple ways of storing hosts
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2019-04-22T17:04:06 < qyx> there is a known_hosts file
2019-04-22T17:04:17 < qyx> it can also be unreadable
2019-04-22T17:05:20 < qyx> Thorn: I didn't come across a small-packet-radio targetted schemes (out-of-box)
2019-04-22T17:05:38 < kakimir> there is windows register
2019-04-22T17:05:38 < qyx> you have to be a bit creative while still adhering to all good practices
2019-04-22T17:05:41 < kakimir> known hosts or
2019-04-22T17:05:56 < Thorn> I read somewhere that e.g. lorawan is a very bad example
2019-04-22T17:06:06 < qyx> yeah
2019-04-22T17:06:16 < Thorn> would like to know exactly why that is
2019-04-22T17:07:08 < qyx> I have read that too but didn't investigate it further
2019-04-22T17:10:12 < Thorn> I'm developing my protocol (packet structure, data encoding, pairing mechanism etc.) but as of now it's completely plaintext
2019-04-22T17:38:29 < qyx> you have to choose if you need forward secrecy or not, if you need encryption at all, if your endpoint is likely to be compromised (and depending on that, shared key or assy or some sort of pki)
2019-04-22T17:38:45 < qyx> you may not actually need no key exchange at all
2019-04-22T17:38:53 < qyx> meh, -not/-no
2019-04-22T17:39:10 < qyx> also, for small packet sizes, there are multiple consideration to take
2019-04-22T17:39:33 < qyx> usually you may not utilize the whole auth tag (16/32 bytes), they are shortened in various ways
2019-04-22T17:40:05 < qyx> you may want to omit the nonce (or use it and avoid sending it along the ciphertext)
2019-04-22T17:40:15 < qyx> becqause it takes some bytes
2019-04-22T17:40:29 < qyx> there are replay attacks you need to address, so some sort of packet counter and stuff
2019-04-22T17:40:48 < qyx> or use ciphers in counter or similar modes
2019-04-22T17:41:12 < Thorn> MIC5504-3.3YM5: 160mV dropout, 38µA Iq (vs. 85µA LDS3985)
2019-04-22T17:41:34 < qyx> or there is SIV mode for some ciphers which use synthetic IV (you save some bytes)
2019-04-22T17:41:45 < qyx> so there is probably not a single proper way
2019-04-22T17:41:58 < qyx> also it depends if your radio is duplex or not
2019-04-22T17:45:08 < Thorn> half duplex most likely (if only I use 1 module)
2019-04-22T17:49:02 < qyx> also if you are lazy or don't want to fukup it, grab some dtls implementation
2019-04-22T17:49:06 < qyx> wolfssl for example
2019-04-22T17:49:11 < qyx> and run it on top of your radio proto
2019-04-22T17:49:23 < qyx> it has some space-efficient EC modes
2019-04-22T17:49:30 < qyx> Ed25519 too
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2019-04-22T17:58:35 < Thorn> ok thanks that dtls stuff looks like a good starting point to study
2019-04-22T18:07:32 < Thorn> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/ldk130.pdf pretty good too
2019-04-22T18:13:05 < jpa-> Thorn: hmm, i haven't heard about lorawan's encryption being particularly bad; it seems reasonably good within the constraints it has
2019-04-22T18:13:41 < jpa-> i guess most of the criticism would be how it's only device to basestation encryption, not end-to-end to some application server
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2019-04-22T19:04:35 < kakimir> PaulFertser: imma in train
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2019-04-22T19:05:01 < kakimir> I have linux laptop ready in 30min notice
2019-04-22T19:05:38 < PaulFertser> kakimir: too tired atm, sorry.
2019-04-22T19:05:44 < PaulFertser> kakimir: probably few hours later.
2019-04-22T19:06:00 < kakimir> yeah
2019-04-22T19:06:07 < kakimir> it's too crowded here atm too
2019-04-22T19:06:22 < kakimir> to start putting my debug setup up
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2019-04-22T19:18:03 < kakimir> 2 laptops, power supplies probes, power leads etc.
2019-04-22T19:18:26 < kakimir> do you take naps after work PaulFertser?
2019-04-22T19:18:58 < PaulFertser> kakimir: sometimes
2019-04-22T19:22:12 < kakimir> can I concider openocd after it's build and installed portable installation that I can throw to other user home as long as I keep installation file hierarchy the same?
2019-04-22T19:24:45 < qyx> wut are you going to copy
2019-04-22T19:24:51 < qyx> make install no worky?
2019-04-22T19:25:06 < kakimir> it's installed to admin user now
2019-04-22T19:25:19 < kakimir> -prefix=$HOME
2019-04-22T19:25:53 < qyx> ok, I am not going to ask
2019-04-22T19:26:33 < kakimir> if I invite someone to play on my computer over remote connection
2019-04-22T19:28:52 < kakimir> I made limited account
2019-04-22T19:30:46 < mawk> if you do portable install you must specify data path in ./configure script kakimir 
2019-04-22T19:30:54 < mawk> otherwise it will use the .tcl files of the system wide openocd
2019-04-22T19:30:57 < mawk> and you don't want that
2019-04-22T19:31:05 < mawk> so it's not really a portable install anyway
2019-04-22T19:31:42 < mawk> to fix this you can specify absolute path to the tcl directory
2019-04-22T19:31:58 < mawk> or specfiy search dir everytime, could do it in a bash wrapper
2019-04-22T19:32:19 < mawk> drop /path/to/portable/openocd -s /path/to/tcl/dir "$@" in /usr/local/bin/openocd
2019-04-22T19:32:51 < mawk> or in ~/.local/bin/openocd and add that directory to PATH in your bashrc
2019-04-22T19:33:30 < mawk> with like d=~/.local/bin; [[ $PATH =~ (^|:)"$d"(:|$) ]] || export PATH="$d:$PATH"; unset d
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2019-04-22T19:37:49 < kakimir> okay I just git clone it to guest user and do the same thing there
2019-04-22T19:38:01 < kakimir> it takes no time
2019-04-22T19:38:07 < kakimir> compared to raspi1
2019-04-22T19:38:19 < kakimir> I mean I left it to compile and fell a sleep
2019-04-22T19:38:24 < kakimir> next morning it was done
2019-04-22T19:39:17 < mawk> lol
2019-04-22T19:41:01 < Steffanx> rpi .
2019-04-22T19:42:42 -!- mode/##stm32 [-bb *!*@128.243.2.33 *!~laurence@81.141.246.69] by ChanServ
2019-04-22T19:44:24 < kakimir> oh there was a ban?
2019-04-22T19:45:22 < mawk> if you pick a date at random odds are that there is a ban
2019-04-22T19:46:07 < Cracki> well, compared to channels that have accumulated 200+ bans (the limit), this channel is kinda tame
2019-04-22T19:47:01 < Steffanx> kakimir, did you see blaxter the last few weeks?
2019-04-22T19:48:05 < mawk> I mean for laurenceb bans
2019-04-22T19:48:17 < mawk> he's in ##stm32-offtopic 
2019-04-22T19:48:25 < mawk> pasting links all day
2019-04-22T19:48:25 < Cracki> try "/mode ##electronics +b" to see their huge list :P
2019-04-22T19:49:32 < Steffanx> haha, ok mawk
2019-04-22T19:51:58 < kakimir> wait there is no active bans here
2019-04-22T19:52:10 < kakimir> yet.
2019-04-22T20:02:37 < canavar> @Rickta59 thanks for the bootloader tricks you showed me. it works like a charm now, the only thing I have been doing wrong was ldscript and flash areas settings for bootloader and app
2019-04-22T20:05:37 -!- canavar is now known as canaw4r
2019-04-22T20:05:47 < canaw4r> @Rickta59 thanks for the bootloader tricks you showed me. it works like a charm now, the only thing I have been doing wrong was ldscript and flash areas settings for bootloader and app
2019-04-22T20:06:23 < mawk> never 2 without 3
2019-04-22T20:07:00 <@englishman> lorawan is awesome
2019-04-22T20:07:39 < Cracki> No Division Multiple Access
2019-04-22T20:07:50 < mawk> NDMA
2019-04-22T20:08:17 < mawk> it's N-methyl-D-aspartate
2019-04-22T20:08:44 < kakimir> MDMA
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2019-04-22T20:30:11 < kakimir> ragequit
2019-04-22T20:30:49 < kakimir> I'm feeling weird you can tell
2019-04-22T20:31:39 < karlp> Thorn: glad the sot23loldongs file gave you some inspiration
2019-04-22T20:31:53 < karlp> (I'm partial to mic5504, it's cheap and readily available)
2019-04-22T20:32:16 < karlp> spx3819 isnt' cheap enough where I buy it to get past it's obnoxious Iq figure.
2019-04-22T20:32:48 < karlp> do bear in mind that that list is _primarily_ based on being all interchangeable pinouts,
2019-04-22T20:33:12 < karlp> so though they might have other package options, or you might prefer a different package option, that's not that list...
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2019-04-22T20:38:38 < kakimir> I'm using androidAP
2019-04-22T20:38:51 < kakimir> how do I contact one of machines in the network from outside
2019-04-22T20:39:06 < kakimir> as androidAP implies nat
2019-04-22T20:39:57 < kakimir> oh shitty app is required maybe
2019-04-22T20:44:50 < kakimir> app looks pretty ok
2019-04-22T20:50:14 < kakimir> how to make ssh connection when there is nat that I have no control over?
2019-04-22T20:50:17 < kakimir> isp nat
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2019-04-22T21:13:14 < Cracki> inbound, through a nat? hah
2019-04-22T21:13:39 < Cracki> look up "hole punching", a bunch of approaches
2019-04-22T21:14:07 < qyx> try hamachi, back to the past
2019-04-22T21:14:16 < Cracki> establish a vpn maybe. udp through nats has a better chance.
2019-04-22T21:16:45 < mawk> you can't punch through nat with tcp yeah
2019-04-22T21:16:49 < mawk> you need a rendez-vous point
2019-04-22T21:16:54 < mawk> so just use a vpn kakimir 
2019-04-22T21:17:07 < mawk> that goes to a good known server with static pi
2019-04-22T21:17:08 < mawk> ip
2019-04-22T21:18:02 < mawk> if you want you can use mine for free
2019-04-22T21:18:06 < mawk> I have a pretty big pipe
2019-04-22T21:18:16 < mawk> without sexual allusions
2019-04-22T21:18:35 < mawk> I pay it 40€/month and it's far from overloaded, so I give containers and vm to many people
2019-04-22T21:19:11 < Steffanx> not even a 3 dollar ovh server?
2019-04-22T21:19:34 < mawk> I don't like ovh
2019-04-22T21:19:42 < mawk> they do overprovisioning so if you use the vps 100% they shut it down
2019-04-22T21:19:49 < mawk> with a bullshit excuse like "we thought you had malware"
2019-04-22T21:20:02 < mawk> I have a real dedicated server, that I can go visit in some datacenter tower if I want
2019-04-22T21:22:21 < qyx> 40€?
2019-04-22T21:22:22 < qyx> what for?
2019-04-22T21:22:33 < mawk> a server and some static ips
2019-04-22T21:22:38 < qyx> I have a 3€/mo for a vps with 20TB traffic
2019-04-22T21:22:48 < qyx> 1 ipv4, /64 ipv6
2019-04-22T21:23:09 < mawk> I have 4 ipv4, a /48 ipv6, and some good specs
2019-04-22T21:23:25 < qyx> you said you are at -1200€
2019-04-22T21:23:29 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-22T21:23:42 < qyx> tss
2019-04-22T21:23:42 < mawk> I don't pay the server personnally, one of the clients that host his website on it pays
2019-04-22T21:23:50 < mawk> so I figured I could go big
2019-04-22T21:25:09 < mawk> the -1200€ is just the result of administrative phobia (it's the excuse for laziness)
2019-04-22T21:25:15 < mawk> I could move some things around to prevent that
2019-04-22T21:26:00 < mawk> but the result is that BNP blocked my card again, now I have like 5€ in my pocket and nothing else
2019-04-22T21:36:27 < qyx> PaulFertser: how big is the semihosting stdio output buffer?
2019-04-22T21:36:34 < qyx> I cannot fnd any reference
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2019-04-22T21:42:06 < rajkosto> its controlled by the define ?
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2019-04-22T22:24:41 <@englishman> wtf ARROW
2019-04-22T22:25:57 <@englishman> Unfortunately, we no longer have available inventory on part FT4232HL-REEL. This part has been cancelled from your order.
2019-04-22T22:25:57 <@englishman> We apologize for any inconvenience caused.
2019-04-22T22:25:58 <@englishman> We would like to offer you 10% discount for your next order. Please use code xxx on Arrow.com at checkout. The code is valid until December 31st, 2020 and does not apply to products from Altera, FTDI Chip, Mean Well, Micron, NVIDIA, and Raspberry Pi Foundation.
2019-04-22T22:26:06 <@englishman> so i cant use the discount code to reorder my part
2019-04-22T22:26:27 < specing> lol
2019-04-22T22:27:56 < mawk> "do not apply to products from *every electronics supplier*"
2019-04-22T22:27:58 < mawk> cool
2019-04-22T22:29:36 < Steffanx> Gotta love ARROW.
2019-04-22T22:29:43 <@englishman> cant even get a shitbetereirpi3B+ or jetson nano with it
2019-04-22T22:32:18 < Steffanx> Is jetson the new edison?
2019-04-22T22:33:37 <@englishman> yes if you need a computer that idles at 5+ watts
2019-04-22T22:33:55 < mawk> rpi already does that
2019-04-22T22:33:56 <@englishman> edison doesnt really have a replacement
2019-04-22T22:34:08 < mawk> it won't boot with at least 1A
2019-04-22T22:34:33 < Steffanx> Reminds me i have 2 rpis running and i dont even why.
2019-04-22T22:35:30 < Steffanx> and a 3rd one is idling at my desk. Just because your fav. webshop gave it to me.
2019-04-22T22:37:54 < catphish> i spent much of the weekend trying to use the STM32's ADC for audio, it seems to be shockingly noisy :( doesn't help that i suck at analog design
2019-04-22T22:38:17 < mawk> some guys on ##electronics could help you catphish 
2019-04-22T22:38:21 < mawk> for analog design
2019-04-22T22:38:41 < catphish> mawk: n2 there helped me a lot already, thanks for the pointer though :)
2019-04-22T22:39:35 < Steffanx> Should ask jly. He can make himself useful for once.
2019-04-22T22:40:00 < mawk> yeah n2
2019-04-22T22:40:30 < Steffanx> Jly(aka stvn) has a good set of brains, but refuses to share them.
2019-04-22T22:41:12 < Steffanx> Better persuade to share em
2019-04-22T22:41:54 < Steffanx> *him
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2019-04-22T23:49:02 < karlp> catphish: stm32adcs are pretty sensitve to getting the sampling time correct for your inputs too
2019-04-22T23:52:20 < catphish> karlp: right now no matter what i do, other than tying the ADC input directly to GND, i get audible noise :(
2019-04-22T23:53:19 < catphish> i've tried different sample times, doesn't seem to matter much
2019-04-22T23:56:48 < specing> catphish: do you have an analog lowpass?
2019-04-22T23:59:52 < catphish> yeah, i tried that, it didn't make any difference, but i don't really know what it is i'm trying to filter
--- Day changed Tue Apr 23 2019
2019-04-23T00:00:49 < catphish> i'll try some super simple setups and take some measurements
2019-04-23T00:02:38 < specing> catphish: can you capture it onto a DSO and play?
2019-04-23T00:02:56 < specing> try playing simple tunes from speakers nearby
2019-04-23T00:04:03 < catphish> earlier i was listening to what i assume was my neighbour's TV
2019-04-23T00:04:10 < catphish> it's that sensitive :(
2019-04-23T00:04:34 < karlp> nice horse video kaks
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2019-04-23T00:05:16 < catphish> thats with the ADC open circuit though
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2019-04-23T00:07:46 < catphish> well now i look at the data objectively, it looks clean
2019-04-23T00:08:17 < catphish> only one bit of error in a 12-bit signal when i connected it to a pot
2019-04-23T00:08:42 < catphish> i'll connect it back up to the output speaker and see :)
2019-04-23T00:09:55 < karlp> garbage in, garbage in then :)
2019-04-23T00:10:55 < catphish> i'm just totally confused, i'll rebuild one step at a time and see what's going on
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2019-04-23T00:24:18 < catphish> ah this pot is very low resistance, that's probably why it's so quiet
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2019-04-23T01:12:56 < Thorn> ok so if 3.3V system voltage is acceptable I can just use a well-chosen LDO after the Li-ion and get pretty good efficiency. but what if I have a tft lcd that wants 2.8-3V and 3.3V is its absolute max?
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2019-04-23T01:14:49 < Thorn> li-ion -> 3.0V ldo is not as efficient
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2019-04-23T01:21:16 < zyp> Thorn, not sure about the context here, but I'd say you'd have to consider how much current you'd actually be drawing as well
2019-04-23T01:22:04 < zyp> if the lcd current draw is negligible, who cares whether its regulator is 95% or 75% efficient
2019-04-23T01:22:54 < Thorn> the lcd will have backlight for one
2019-04-23T01:23:14 < Thorn> and besides any inefficiency will influence battery life aiui
2019-04-23T01:23:55 < zyp> lcd backlight should probably be driven by a switching current regulator, not a voltage regulator
2019-04-23T01:24:08 < zyp> for best efficiency
2019-04-23T01:25:02 < zyp> as for other stuff, ldo to 3.0V might not be any less efficient than ldo to 3.3V
2019-04-23T01:25:06 < Thorn> + suppose there's a radio ic that eats say 120mA while transmitting
2019-04-23T01:25:20 < Thorn> of course the TX duty cycle is small
2019-04-23T01:27:00 < zyp> if current draw at 3.0V is the same as current draw at 3.3V, you'll have the same current draw from the battery regardless of which LDO you choose
2019-04-23T01:28:02 < zyp> on paper the 3.3V LDO is more efficient, but that's just because it dissipates relatively less
2019-04-23T01:28:58 < zyp> a SMPS is only efficient when it's sufficiently loaded, for light loads it might not outperform a LDO
2019-04-23T01:30:06 < zyp> you might want to have both, and start the SMPS when you're gonna transmit or similar
2019-04-23T01:36:34 < Thorn> that makes sense (except for having one smps for backlight, another for radio and an ldo for the mcu + sensors lol)
2019-04-23T01:36:43 < Thorn> I'll have to power the radio from the ldo
2019-04-23T01:42:15 < _unreal_> have any of you played with BLDC motors?
2019-04-23T01:43:34 < kakimir> I think at least catphish has a project
2019-04-23T01:43:40 < kakimir> it's not totally uncommon
2019-04-23T01:48:21 < _unreal_> I just got an other BLDC motor with an encoder
2019-04-23T01:48:38 < _unreal_> now that I have 2 I'm interested in rebuilding the motor controller board that I have so that I can use it a3936sedt motor controller
2019-04-23T01:49:00 < _unreal_> I have 2 motors that have encoders on them. and 2 more that only have the hall sensors on them
2019-04-23T01:49:25 < _unreal_> I'm interested in building up the encoder one's because they would be some nice servos
2019-04-23T01:53:53 < kakimir> comes in PLCC package
2019-04-23T01:54:01 < kakimir> how old this chip is?
2019-04-23T01:54:19 < kakimir> oh part status: obsolete
2019-04-23T01:57:04 < _unreal_> I get them all the time
2019-04-23T01:57:06 < _unreal_> or can get them
2019-04-23T01:59:40 < _unreal_> kakimir, if you GOOGLE this " seatel satellite tracking " and look at images you'll see the kind of satellite dishes they come from 
2019-04-23T02:00:13 < kakimir> sweet
2019-04-23T02:00:27 < kakimir> are those for chips?
2019-04-23T02:00:30 < kakimir> *ships
2019-04-23T02:01:52 < kakimir> nice it's like active stabilization
2019-04-23T02:02:52 < _unreal_> yes ships
2019-04-23T02:02:58 < _unreal_> I work on luxury yachts mainly
2019-04-23T02:03:10 < _unreal_> as in repair rebuilt, custom designs etc...
2019-04-23T02:03:15 < _unreal_> yes
2019-04-23T02:03:31 < _unreal_> kakimir, Thats kind of what I was look at with that chip the other day
2019-04-23T02:04:05 < _unreal_> is gettnig the PCB built or rebuilt and interfacing
2019-04-23T02:04:09 < _unreal_> maybe
2019-04-23T02:04:30 < _unreal_> kakimir, http://www.seatel.biz/product/spare-parts/spare-parts-electronic-spare-parts/spare-parts-electronic-spare-parts-motors-encoders/replace-kit-az-motor-3011/
2019-04-23T02:04:38 < _unreal_> That is litteraly the motors I have 
2019-04-23T02:04:42 < _unreal_> and as I said I get them free all the time
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2019-04-23T02:05:59 < _unreal_> whole box of them :) https://drive.google.com/open?id=11rRfUwgvbw0m47y3En9ytUBXOHl5YvJn
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2019-04-23T02:16:27 < mawk> cubemx shows an option CMSIS v2 for FreeRTOS, but it's disabled and it says "not available yet"
2019-04-23T02:16:28 < mawk> :(
2019-04-23T02:19:50 < _unreal_> mawk, are you talking to me/
2019-04-23T02:19:52 < _unreal_> ?
2019-04-23T02:20:01 < mawk> not specifically
2019-04-23T02:20:28 < mawk> I'm trying to use my reentrant stubs of newlib-nano with freertos, to have proper printf
2019-04-23T02:20:47 < _unreal_> hum
2019-04-23T02:33:33 < kakimir> _unreal_: but why to use that obsolete chip?
2019-04-23T02:38:55 < _unreal_> kakimir, I have it on and and they are free
2019-04-23T02:39:19 < _unreal_> and I get them now and then when ever a satellite gets tossed which is often
2019-04-23T02:39:39 < _unreal_> I could use a newer motor controller but I dont know of any off the top of my head
2019-04-23T02:40:27 < _unreal_> besides its a SIMPLE design, one sense resistor, 6 caps and 1 resistor
2019-04-23T02:40:39 < _unreal_> at least on the board anyways
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2019-04-23T02:44:40 < mawk> looks like it's working
2019-04-23T02:44:44 < mawk> wonderful
2019-04-23T02:47:10 < _unreal_> huh?
2019-04-23T02:47:31 < mawk> using the newlib-nano libc with freertos
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2019-04-23T02:47:53 < mawk> since freertos does preempting scheduling of tasks you need to be careful if you like call malloc in one task then get preempted in the middle of that and call malloc on top of that in another task
2019-04-23T02:47:59 < mawk> without proper reentrancy support you mess everything up
2019-04-23T02:48:02 < mawk> that was the difficulty
2019-04-23T02:48:22 < mawk> but that applies to naked programs also, if you call malloc in irq handlers
2019-04-23T02:48:30 < mawk> and you could call malloc by mistake, eg if you call printf
2019-04-23T02:58:10 < _unreal_> hum
2019-04-23T03:05:24 < zyp> if you call malloc from isrs, you should seriously rethink the architecture of your firmware
2019-04-23T03:05:52 < zyp> (even indirectly)
2019-04-23T03:09:31 < kakimir> malloc from isr :o
2019-04-23T03:15:16 < ds2> why not also busy wait in the same ISR ;)
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2019-04-23T03:34:00 < mawk> lol
2019-04-23T03:34:05 < mawk> it was just an example
2019-04-23T03:34:11 < mawk> also timer callback was counted in isr
2019-04-23T03:34:17 < mawk> any kind of callback
2019-04-23T04:09:34 < Rickta59> why not just make it cooperative multitasking mawk ?
2019-04-23T04:09:48 < Rickta59> then it won't context switch unless you let it
2019-04-23T04:10:48 < mawk> yeah that could work too I guess
2019-04-23T04:10:54 < ds2> avoid malloc
2019-04-23T04:11:04 < ds2> nothing good comes out of code with malloc
2019-04-23T04:11:07 < mawk> malloc was just an example of something required reentrancy
2019-04-23T04:11:17 < Rickta59> i don't think malloc is a bad thing if do it once before you start the scheduler
2019-04-23T04:12:11 < Rickta59> and never free
2019-04-23T04:12:13 < mawk> freertos does a bunch of dynamic allocation, it has a static only mode but it's more work for the end dev
2019-04-23T04:12:15 < ds2> malloc makes it hard to debug
2019-04-23T04:12:50 < Rickta59> if you are doing dynamic allocation as you are running yes
2019-04-23T04:13:05 < Rickta59> but if it is done at startup, not much different than allocating bss memory
2019-04-23T04:13:31 < ds2> except you don't know where it is at til you run and it could vary from run to run 
2019-04-23T04:13:39 < Rickta59> ?
2019-04-23T04:13:50 < ds2> allocating in the bss would show up in a link map
2019-04-23T04:13:59 < Rickta59> that is true
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2019-04-23T04:14:27 < Rickta59> i was actually just mucking around with all this to see how bad newlib memory stuff is
2019-04-23T04:14:55 < Rickta59> i set up the code and then debugged and waited for sbrk to trigger
2019-04-23T04:15:00 < ds2> implement malloc() as hlt; :D
2019-04-23T04:15:02 < Rickta59> it wasn't that bad
2019-04-23T04:15:38 < Rickta59> i painted memory with a pattern and then let it run and stopped and poked around
2019-04-23T04:15:49 < Rickta59> it was all painted except the few allocations I had at the start
2019-04-23T04:16:14 < ds2> you might know what you are doing but even having malloc there is an invitation for someone else to leave surprises
2019-04-23T04:16:33 < Rickta59> someone else .. heh .. where is my help
2019-04-23T04:16:54 < ds2> say your intern or a new hire....
2019-04-23T04:17:04 < Rickta59> hmm .. good luck that
2019-04-23T04:17:12 < ds2> the one with a newly issued CS degree 
2019-04-23T04:17:39 < Rickta59> she would be writing in java or python :)
2019-04-23T04:19:27 < Rickta59> are you using the atomic functions from gcc mawk ?
2019-04-23T04:19:56 < ds2> sigh....
2019-04-23T04:20:04 < mawk> what for ?
2019-04-23T04:20:13 < mawk> I'm not using them currently no, I have in the past
2019-04-23T04:20:15 < Rickta59> for implementing your mutexing
2019-04-23T04:20:22 < Rickta59> how well does that work?
2019-04-23T04:20:46 < mawk> you just have to overwrite a pointer
2019-04-23T04:20:48 < mawk> no swap, nothing
2019-04-23T04:27:57 < mawk> but you're right it's maybe better to use __atomic_store, at least for documentation
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2019-04-23T05:29:01 <@englishman> Over the weekend, the company's recently flown Dragon crew capsule was engulfed in smoke and flames on an engine test stand at Cape Canaveral, Fla.
2019-04-23T05:31:28 < mawk> too bad musk wasn't in it
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2019-04-23T06:13:07 < Cracki> _unreal_, anyone said "stmbl" yet? that's one that's mentioned often. those were made for high powered stuff tho.
2019-04-23T06:26:21 < Cracki> something closer to home maybe? https://www.st.com/en/motor-drivers/brushless-dc-motor-drivers.html
2019-04-23T06:28:06 < Cracki> you might wanna look for "field oriented control"
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2019-04-23T06:34:29 < Cracki> of course trinamic has a solution for that ;P
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2019-04-23T06:36:39 < Cracki> this one claims to improve on VESC: https://github.com/NiklasFauth/ottercontrol
2019-04-23T06:36:41 < Cracki> vesc: https://blog.adafruit.com/2017/03/24/open-source-electronic-speed-controller-vesc-brushless-motor-design-by-benjamin-vedder/
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2019-04-23T06:42:29 < Cracki> some of those solutions might not implement position control, only speed control
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2019-04-23T11:09:40 < jadew`> so JLC PCB managed to send me 6 wrong invoices, dispite multiple attempts at explaining to them what was wrong
2019-04-23T11:10:03 < jadew`> and DHL refused to pass my package through customs with shipping price $0
2019-04-23T11:10:22 < jadew`> they said they'll tax me extra for a list price
2019-04-23T11:11:40 < jadew`> there was basically something like this: board 1: 20, board 2: 10, discount: -15, subtotal: 30
2019-04-23T11:12:05 < jadew`> that was their math
2019-04-23T11:12:12 < jadew`> 20 + 10 - 15 = 30
2019-04-23T11:12:38 < jadew`> obviously the numbers didn't add up to what I actually paid
2019-04-23T11:14:39 < jadew`> anyway, DHL fully understood what's going on, but they're just dicks
2019-04-23T11:14:57 < jadew`> I wonder if they'll charge me extra for the days the package stayed in storage because I didn't comply with their requirements
2019-04-23T11:15:38 < jadew`> there was also the timezone thing, which meant that by the time I got a reply from DHL china was already sleeping
2019-04-23T11:15:51 < jadew`> so there was like one e-mail transaction per day
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2019-04-23T12:07:31 < Cracki> never dhl
2019-04-23T12:08:13 < Cracki> maybe try to escalate to whatever customer complaint people they have
2019-04-23T12:10:13 < Cracki> btw, that's probably dhl *express*. the normal dhl/post around here is very relaxed, but _they_ only deal with national stuff, or with stuff the chinese dumped on the customs people, from where national dhl carries it
2019-04-23T12:14:55 < jly> is steffan okay Cracki >
2019-04-23T12:18:47 < jly> do you know
2019-04-23T12:21:36 < Cracki> I don't want to
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2019-04-23T13:05:58 < jly> !wz netherlands
2019-04-23T13:05:59 < englishbot> Invalid API key.
2019-04-23T13:06:17 < jly> i fucked that up
2019-04-23T13:17:39 < Cracki> the oceans haven't risen yet, if you wanted to know that
2019-04-23T13:19:14 < Cracki> 200 mm, enough to drown a child in https://robertscribbler.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/hansen-sea-level-rise.png
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2019-04-23T13:21:38 <@englishman> lol, according to log, it worked
2019-04-23T13:24:32 < jly> idk
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2019-04-23T13:29:14 < _unreal_> Cracki, just woke up getting ready for work. opened the links.. I'll look at them
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2019-04-23T13:59:04 < jadew`> Cracki, yeah, regular DHL just delivers through the regular post (in here)
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2019-04-23T15:50:51 < kakimir> PaulFertser: got it working somewhat
2019-04-23T15:51:56 < kakimir> at least I get it flashed
2019-04-23T15:57:15 < kakimir> and many times in a row too
2019-04-23T15:57:21 < kakimir> repeatibility
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2019-04-23T19:00:46 < kakimir> found a gum in my bag
2019-04-23T19:00:49 < kakimir> loose piece
2019-04-23T19:00:55 < kakimir> yammy
2019-04-23T19:01:05 < jpa-> was the tooth still attached?
2019-04-23T19:02:14 < tctw__> Hello, Mr. jpa- 
2019-04-23T19:02:16 < tctw__> how's life?
2019-04-23T19:02:30 < jpa-> hello tectu
2019-04-23T19:02:39 < jpa-> life's as usual
2019-04-23T19:02:52 < jpa-> how's business? are you a millionaire yet?
2019-04-23T19:03:04 < tctw__> that's not bad in my opinion
2019-04-23T19:03:08 < tctw__> hah, lol no. 
2019-04-23T19:03:22 < tctw__> I don't care about money so much
2019-04-23T19:03:30 < jpa-> what about in NOK? or INR?
2019-04-23T19:03:31 < tctw__> currently thinking of taking a break and starting to travel the wordlz
2019-04-23T19:03:45 < jpa-> sounds good
2019-04-23T19:03:51 < jpa-> how many worlds will you travel?
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2019-04-23T19:04:15 < tctw__> well made 2 million CHF last year turnover with 56% profit
2019-04-23T19:04:19 < tctw__> dunno
2019-04-23T19:04:24 < tctw__> not sure about anything yet
2019-04-23T19:04:30 < jpa-> sounds like millionaire then
2019-04-23T19:04:50 < tctw__> well that's company money. I don't really do the salary thing as I don't really care about money in a private setting
2019-04-23T19:04:58 < tctw__> I acquired a dutch girlfriend a couple of months ago tho.
2019-04-23T19:05:20 < jpa-> how much did it cost? i assume her name is not steffieX this time?
2019-04-23T19:05:29 < effractur> lol
2019-04-23T19:05:41 < tctw__> hah :p
2019-04-23T19:05:47 < tctw__> you know how it goes... she's "free"
2019-04-23T19:05:55 < tctw__> it's not mr. Steffann
2019-04-23T19:06:00 < jpa-> but yeah, of course you'd keep it in company accounts to escape taxes, like all multi-millionaires do
2019-04-23T19:07:25 < tctw__> dude, I'm far from anything like that
2019-04-23T19:07:50 < tctw__> I don't really do munnies
2019-04-23T19:07:53 < tctw__> I have people for that
2019-04-23T19:08:01 < tctw__> I mainly do programming & overall management tasks
2019-04-23T19:08:15 < jpa-> your people know what to do :P
2019-04-23T19:08:21 < tctw__> get my comparably low CEO salary at the end of the month
2019-04-23T19:08:26 < tctw__> put half of it on a savings account
2019-04-23T19:08:27 < tctw__> done.
2019-04-23T19:08:37 < jpa-> sounds good
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2019-04-23T19:08:52 < tctw__> and then more programming :)
2019-04-23T19:08:54 < tctw__> and gfing
2019-04-23T19:08:58 < jpa-> i'm honestly guite surprised how far you've managed to take ugfx
2019-04-23T19:09:26 < tctw__> ah, that 2 millions turnover is not just 100% ugfx ;-)
2019-04-23T19:09:51 < tctw__> ugfx is a pet project that brings in a fraction of that.
2019-04-23T19:10:10 < jpa-> generic consulting or you have some other products already?
2019-04-23T19:11:03 < tctw__> we develop other products but purely based on customer requirements.
2019-04-23T19:11:12 < tctw__> eg. they do the marketing stuff
2019-04-23T19:11:15 < tctw__> I just provide the pixies
2019-04-23T19:11:23 < jpa-> yep
2019-04-23T19:12:34 < tctw__> it's business - sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. sometimes you're just at the right time in the right place.
2019-04-23T19:12:56 < tctw__> and at some point I just started not to care anymore about crap like that and opt for the good life experience.
2019-04-23T19:13:05 < jpa-> makes sense
2019-04-23T19:13:19 < jpa-> though i'd expect it is an easier decision when the company already mostly runs itself
2019-04-23T19:13:38 < tctw__> yeah, that's definitely true
2019-04-23T19:14:16 < tctw__> currently preparing for a larger legal fight with a larger company tho, so there's always that crap.
2019-04-23T19:14:17 < jpa-> i've been lazying off for a few months now also, though now i'm also 100% home-daddying so wouldn't even have time to work
2019-04-23T19:14:51 < dongs> someone used uguuFX without paying license?
2019-04-23T19:15:16 < tctw__> dongs, not ugfx related
2019-04-23T19:15:32 < tctw__> jpa-, how's that going? The kids discussion has come up here too.
2019-04-23T19:16:12 < jpa-> well, you get used to it
2019-04-23T19:16:30 < tctw__> well, I'm already extremely good at sitting at home all day long so...
2019-04-23T19:16:43 < tctw__> just not sure whether I'm ready to deal with the child part
2019-04-23T19:17:21 < jpa-> hardest part for us has been the lack of time together; but i guess you could always hire a hot babysitter to fill in
2019-04-23T19:18:21 < tctw__> hah
2019-04-23T19:18:25 < tctw__> nah, she's my hot babysitter
2019-04-23T19:18:42 < tctw__> also, I'm not feeling like spending money. I'm in the "it's okay how it is, let's just chill" mode right now.
2019-04-23T19:18:58 < mawk> so you speak dutch ?
2019-04-23T19:19:02 < tctw__> learning
2019-04-23T19:19:05 < mawk> the language of love
2019-04-23T19:19:06 < mawk> good
2019-04-23T19:19:17 < tctw__> anything you can recommend me to tell her?
2019-04-23T19:19:20 -!- tctw__ is now known as tctw
2019-04-23T19:19:43 < mawk> I'm still learning too, apart from some pastries I don't have much vocabulary, you should ask Steffann 
2019-04-23T19:20:00 < tctw> Steffann is my homeboy <3
2019-04-23T19:20:04 < mawk> "you're my little ollibollen"
2019-04-23T19:20:08 < mawk> oliebollen ?
2019-04-23T19:20:10 < tctw> LOL
2019-04-23T19:20:20 < zyp> tctw, «ik wil betalen»
2019-04-23T19:20:33 < tctw> zyp ;)
2019-04-23T19:20:39 < tctw> how's norwaying going?
2019-04-23T19:20:50 < zyp> good
2019-04-23T19:20:56 < Steffann> Veel goed tctw en mawk ?
2019-04-23T19:21:16 -!- Steffann is now known as Steffanx
2019-04-23T19:21:16 < tctw> Steffann, I promise that I'll try to meet you at your place next time I'm in dutchland again.
2019-04-23T19:21:24 < tctw> didn't work out the past few times :/
2019-04-23T19:21:32 < jpa-> when are you next time in finland?
2019-04-23T19:21:39 < tctw> err, for anyone else: She lives here, it's not a long-distance thingy.
2019-04-23T19:21:44 < Steffanx> Nah. My place is boring :P
2019-04-23T19:21:46 < tctw> jpa-, whenever you want me to be.
2019-04-23T19:22:02 < tctw> wanted to go to island this weekend by they cancelled the festival/concert (sonar) :(
2019-04-23T19:22:21 < tctw> Steffanx, the weather here has been good ever since - maybe we should retry in the future
2019-04-23T19:22:22 < jpa-> tctw: which do you like best, biting insects or snow and darkness?
2019-04-23T19:22:32 < tctw> jpa-, DEFINITELY the latter
2019-04-23T19:22:46 < Steffanx> Weather is going to be baad
2019-04-23T19:23:07 < karlp> it's spelt iceland in english normally.
2019-04-23T19:23:20 < Steffanx> He likes rain more. Thats what he gave me in swisserland
2019-04-23T19:23:29 < karlp> you can come here anyway, meet me :)
2019-04-23T19:23:41 < tctw> karlp, oh right, you're from iceland! any idea why they cancelled sonar?
2019-04-23T19:23:49 < karlp> probably mismanagement.
2019-04-23T19:24:10 < tctw> sorry for typoing
2019-04-23T19:24:39 < karlp> they blamed  wow airlines bankruptcy, but I'd suspect it was just purely badly managed and wow gave them a way out without looking to bad.
2019-04-23T19:24:44 < jpa-> tctw: for the next few weeks, we'll have only mosquitoes; after that we'll also have tiny 1mm flies that bite 2mm holes into you; after that we'll have 10mm flies that bite 10mm holes; and to finish the summer, we'll get 5mm flys that crawl inside your shirt, bite multiple holes and infect them with bacteria
2019-04-23T19:24:59 < karlp> (no biting insects in iceland, come whenever)
2019-04-23T19:25:12 < Steffanx> Im glad flies tend to hate me
2019-04-23T19:25:20 < tctw> jpa-, err... how serious are you being right now?
2019-04-23T19:25:26 < tctw> karlp, that's on the bucket list ;-)
2019-04-23T19:25:33 < tctw> karlp, completely forgot about telling you upfront tho :D
2019-04-23T19:26:20 < karlp> my wife runs a high end travel agency for rich people like yourself if you want :)
2019-04-23T19:26:21 < jpa-> tctw: about 100%; but i forgot to mention that for all summer we also have 0.5...3mm sized ticks that will crawl up your leg and drink your blood and give you uncurable infections
2019-04-23T19:26:51 < mawk> now that I raised a spider I'm not afraid of insects anymore
2019-04-23T19:26:58 < tctw> jpa-, when did finnland become such a hostile place?
2019-04-23T19:27:21 < Steffanx> Is your beard or what mawk?
2019-04-23T19:27:37 < jpa-> tctw: it's always been that, but warming climate definitely helps
2019-04-23T19:28:28 < mawk> it's in a little cage I made Steffanx , with LED lights
2019-04-23T19:28:30 < Steffanx> Ages ago i was in lappeenranta and i dont recall seeing many flies.
2019-04-23T19:29:04 < jpa-> maybe you weren't delicious enough
2019-04-23T19:29:21 < Steffanx> im not, but .. that wouldnt explain why i didnt really see them either
2019-04-23T19:29:43 < karlp> only plus side of finnish biters, low chance of malaria...
2019-04-23T19:30:15 < tctw> karlp, sonar has been around for several years now, no? why would they suddenly fuck up management?
2019-04-23T19:30:54 < zyp> complacency
2019-04-23T19:30:58 < karlp> sonar the brand has been.
2019-04-23T19:31:13 < karlp> sonar as a franchsed outpost in iceland only a couple of years,
2019-04-23T19:31:19 < karlp> was big and cool first, year,
2019-04-23T19:31:26 < karlp> not sure it had much attendance the year after,
2019-04-23T19:31:42 < tctw> ah, I see
2019-04-23T19:32:06 < tctw> well, let me know once you decide to get off of your island ;-)
2019-04-23T19:32:50 < mawk> iceland is islande in french
2019-04-23T19:32:58 < karlp> went to the big island for a bit over a month earlier in the year, 
2019-04-23T19:33:06 < karlp> goign to croatia in september,
2019-04-23T19:33:13 < karlp> no plans to visit swiss
2019-04-23T19:33:36 < karlp> sonar reykjavik was 2016, 2017, 2018, cancelled.
2019-04-23T19:34:04 < karlp> the other big festival here went broke two years ago, and changed owners too, it had only existed on subsidies too for most of it's life I believe.
2019-04-23T19:34:33 < karlp> and the new-ish summer one has changed virtual owners every year, so it's totally a scam waiting to collapse too.
2019-04-23T19:35:24 < karlp> and france is frakkland in icelandic if you're interested in just words like that mawk :)
2019-04-23T19:35:29 < Steffanx> What's sonar btw? All kinds of music festival?
2019-04-23T19:35:45 < mawk> that sounds aggressive, frakk
2019-04-23T19:35:58 < mawk> but dutch is similar, frank
2019-04-23T19:36:05 < mawk> but it's still a kingdom in dutch, not just a land
2019-04-23T19:36:31 < Steffanx> dutch? Frank?
2019-04-23T19:36:31 < zyp> frankrike in norwegian
2019-04-23T19:36:42 < mawk> frankrijk
2019-04-23T19:36:51 < Steffanx> oh yes
2019-04-23T19:37:28 < Steffanx> You looked down on us much. "The low lands"
2019-04-23T19:37:30 < zyp> I'm guessing iceland is island in quite a few languages
2019-04-23T19:37:34 < zyp> including norwegian
2019-04-23T19:37:41 < karlp> everyone looks down on you steffan, you are below us :)
2019-04-23T19:37:56 < mawk> lol Steffanx 
2019-04-23T19:38:01 < mawk> belgium is nicknamed the low land too
2019-04-23T19:38:08 < Steffanx> le pays bas?
2019-04-23T19:38:09 < mawk> the flat land rather
2019-04-23T19:38:13 < karlp> zyp:sure, but it's not a good choice in english :)
2019-04-23T19:38:14 < mawk> le plat pays
2019-04-23T19:40:55  * Steffanx throws a wooden shoe at karlp
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2019-04-23T19:43:56 <@englishman> don't come to canada
2019-04-23T19:44:16 <@englishman> this summer's big concert is blink 182
2019-04-23T19:44:30 < jpa-> i've never been to a concert
2019-04-23T19:44:38  * karlp peers at jpa
2019-04-23T19:44:43 < karlp> never?
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2019-04-23T19:45:17 < jpa-> never
2019-04-23T19:45:27 < jadew`> bs
2019-04-23T19:45:35 < jadew`> at least by mistake
2019-04-23T19:45:43 < jadew`> you happened to be there?
2019-04-23T19:46:16 < jpa-> well if you count people playing on street with a hat in front of them as a concert, then yes
2019-04-23T19:46:48 < jadew`> I never enjoyed concerts either, but I went to a few
2019-04-23T19:47:19 < jadew`> it was always because I hoped I'd meet chicks there
2019-04-23T19:47:22 < jadew`> never happened
2019-04-23T19:48:51 < zyp> if the qualifier for concert is «something I've paid for a ticket for, for the sole purpose of going there to listen to music», I think I've been to five concerts
2019-04-23T19:49:21 < jadew`> oh, that would make it 0 for me, I only went to free concerts
2019-04-23T19:52:40 < Steffanx> it can be free too. damn
2019-04-23T19:52:57 < zyp> free gets harder to count, as it then includes all sorts of events where music are played
2019-04-23T19:55:35 < karlp> I wonder if I've crossed 1000 or not.
2019-04-23T19:55:57 < jadew`> what's the attraction tho?
2019-04-23T19:56:03 < karlp> well duh, the music.
2019-04-23T19:56:13 < jadew`> but... mp3
2019-04-23T19:56:24  * karlp laughs
2019-04-23T19:56:29 < zyp> haha
2019-04-23T19:56:45 < karlp> yes, I've walked out of a concert that was "I could just listen to this at home and have more fun"
2019-04-23T19:56:55 < karlp> (looking at you kraftwerk)
2019-04-23T19:57:50 < jadew`> I can't lie, I did have some fun to a couple of them, but only because I was drunk
2019-04-23T19:58:09 < jadew`> and I can easily top that by getting drunk with my friends in a quiet place
2019-04-23T19:59:04 < Steffanx> drunk people are the people that ruin it for me usually. To hell with drunk people.
2019-04-23T19:59:17 < jadew`> everyone was drunk there
2019-04-23T19:59:24 < jpa-> i've never been drunk either
2019-04-23T20:00:09 < zyp> jpa-, because finnish people are constantly drunk, so it never makes it to past tense?
2019-04-23T20:01:17 < jpa-> we do have a word for hangover, so i think it disproves your theory!
2019-04-23T20:03:13 <@englishman> what's the point of travelling when you can just go on wikipedia
2019-04-23T20:03:25 < Steffanx> and google streetview.
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2019-04-23T20:03:41 < zyp> jpa-, not if it's reserved for describing foreigners
2019-04-23T20:04:29 < jpa-> fair point
2019-04-23T20:05:39 < PaulFertser> kakimir: so what was the gotcha?
2019-04-23T20:06:27 < Steffanx> more alcohol.
2019-04-23T20:07:35 < kakimir> PaulFertser: I didn't fix the problem
2019-04-23T20:07:42 < kakimir> I just poked it until it somewhat works
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2019-04-23T20:08:14 <@englishman> so, fixed!
2019-04-23T20:08:32 < Steffanx> what wikipedia page do we have to visit?
2019-04-23T20:09:04 < Steffanx> oh you didnt fix a wikiholiday for us
2019-04-23T20:11:11 < kakimir> englishman: it's coughing
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2019-04-23T20:11:47 < kakimir> debug session is successfully started like every third time or so
2019-04-23T20:11:50 <@englishman> if you take out a lung you can cut your smoking in half
2019-04-23T20:12:03 < Steffanx> does kakimir smoke?
2019-04-23T20:12:10 < Steffanx> What happend with the snus?
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2019-04-23T20:18:14 < kakimir> PaulFertser: do you want to have a swing if I set it up?
2019-04-23T20:18:38 < PaulFertser> kakimir: I can connect and see what's happening but you'd need to provide more details I guess.
2019-04-23T20:18:49 < Steffanx> kakimir is your target so obscure that openocd doesnt do it or are you pebkacing?
2019-04-23T20:19:26 < kakimir> openocd kinda does it
2019-04-23T20:19:34 < Steffanx> but
2019-04-23T20:19:47 < kakimir> PaulFertser: give me a minute
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2019-04-23T20:39:24 < kakimir> okay it's working for guest user now.. just port forwarding and we are ready
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2019-04-23T21:40:46 < Steffanx> No music today kakimir?
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2019-04-23T21:44:01 < kakimir> lemme see
2019-04-23T21:44:11 < kakimir> how about musics timemachine?
2019-04-23T21:44:50 < aandrew> so I saw my dwarf neighbour at the bus stop.  "Hop in, I'll give you a ride home" I said. He told me to fuck off. What a rude little cunt. I just zipped my backpack back up and kept walking.
2019-04-23T21:45:28 < Steffanx> lolyou aandrew
2019-04-23T21:46:01 < kakimir> :o
2019-04-23T21:47:04 < kakimir> https://www.instagram.com/p/BwmWSVtgOII/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=pk5u2qpawh9l
2019-04-23T21:48:03 < Steffanx> it must be real, because wikipedai says so
2019-04-23T21:48:17 < Steffanx> and then after all this you die of cancer -_-
2019-04-23T21:49:02 < Cracki> mad lad
2019-04-23T21:50:50 < kakimir> there was also dude that took of from Malmi Airport, Helsinki.. and landed on red square
2019-04-23T21:51:19 < kakimir> but he basically had big wide runway there
2019-04-23T21:53:17 < kakimir> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust
2019-04-23T21:55:24 < Cracki> Tovarishch! Tovarishch!
2019-04-23T21:56:13 < Cracki> >impenetrable
2019-04-23T21:56:56 < Cracki> yeah well for military, they clearly weren't willing to shoot him like certain rogue states do today
2019-04-23T21:57:06 < kakimir> he was lucky that Stalin wasn't around
2019-04-23T21:58:15 < Cracki> he should have landed on a tank on tianamen square
2019-04-23T21:58:33 < Cracki> *tiananmen square
2019-04-23T22:02:47 < Cracki> amusing story. declared harmless at every turn
2019-04-23T22:09:29 < kakimir> he did it in good will
2019-04-23T22:12:27 < Cracki> german wikipedia says he did this stunt on soviet Border Guards Day
2019-04-23T22:12:27 < Cracki>  (!)
2019-04-23T22:13:22 < Cracki> maybe it was a psyop and gorbachev agents put him up to it
2019-04-23T22:15:32 < Cracki> this phrase is a translation from german, by journos who were as disingenious as they are today "psychologically unstable and unworldly in a dangerous manner"
2019-04-23T22:16:09 < Cracki> in the original, some journo claims he grew up too sheltered and naive, which the journo considers dangerous
2019-04-23T22:16:22 < Cracki> dude himself denies that this is so
2019-04-23T22:23:31 < mawk> lol
2019-04-23T22:25:17 < specing> well, he did stab someone, so I'd guess the journos were right
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--- Day changed Wed Apr 24 2019
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2019-04-24T00:56:39 < jadew`> https://imgur.com/gallery/0URSZHg
2019-04-24T01:01:47 < aandrew> lol
2019-04-24T01:13:34 < _unreal_> have any of you used BLDC servos?
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2019-04-24T02:47:12 < mawk> should I use the CMSIS interface or the FreeRTOS interface ?
2019-04-24T02:47:35 < mawk> ST generates CMSIS calls, FreeRTOS docs don't make mention of many of the CMSIS functions but they do use some like osDelay
2019-04-24T02:47:36 < mawk> I'm confused
2019-04-24T02:47:43 < mawk> ST I mean cubemx
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2019-04-24T02:52:41 < mawk> CMSIS looks higher level, but it has fewer functions
2019-04-24T02:52:50 < mawk> I feel dirty if I mix both, let's just use CMSIS for now
2019-04-24T03:00:15 < Thorn> fancy hipster tweezers https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Electronics-Industrial-Tweezers-Anti-static-ESD-Curved-Straight-Tip-Precision-Stainless-Steel-Forceps-Phone-Repair-Hand/32932252157.html
2019-04-24T03:09:34 < _unreal_> mawk, I always knew you were dirty
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2019-04-24T03:26:10 < bitmask> haha screw you Thorn 
2019-04-24T03:26:14 < bitmask> I have those :P
2019-04-24T03:26:39 < Thorn> moneyed westerners
2019-04-24T03:26:57 < bitmask> a few dollars for tweezers is a lot?
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2019-04-24T03:27:56 < bitmask> I apparently paid an extra $0.60 for the DIYFIX logo
2019-04-24T03:28:11 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIYFIX-Electronics-Industrial-Tweezers-Anti-static-Curved-Straight-Tip-Precision-Stainless-Forceps-Phone-Repair-Hand-Tools/32867268552.html
2019-04-24T03:31:59 < bitmask> the funny thing is someone else in this room bitched about them for something completely different.  they said they were cheap because the manufacturer was trying to save metal by drilling holes :P
2019-04-24T03:32:21 < bitmask> I just thought they looked comfortable
2019-04-24T03:39:09 < bitmask> is measuring voltage relatively easy? like a cheap multimeter or a cheap voltmeter display is sufficient or if you build your own psu are there better ways to measure the output
2019-04-24T03:39:53 < bitmask> suppressing noise is understandable in terms of power supply difficulty but how about the actual output
2019-04-24T03:45:09 < bitmask> this is part of another thought where I'm considering measuring these 1% resistors from china, if I use two to create a voltage divider and measure the output, and do that for quite a few samples, I should be able to get a decent understanding of what their tolerance really is right?
2019-04-24T03:47:26 <@englishman> The Infinium™ Space Pen writes far longer than our standard Space Pen which writes three times longer than an ordinary ball point pen. The Infinium Space Pen will write so long in fact, that the average user won't run out of ink in their lifetime. If your Infinium Space Pen runs out of ink during your lifetime, return it directly to us for a free replacement.
2019-04-24T03:47:27 <@englishman> whoa
2019-04-24T03:48:31 < bitmask> how does that work
2019-04-24T03:49:31 < bitmask> oh its only $155 nbd
2019-04-24T03:51:33 < bitmask> I'm still waiting to turn my own pcb pen
2019-04-24T03:59:12 < bitmask> draw an led schematic symbol, it looks like a bears nose thats had half its whiskers burnt off
2019-04-24T04:08:54 < bitmask> you have all failed me
2019-04-24T04:08:55 < mawk> _unreal_ :(
2019-04-24T04:09:09 < bitmask> :( indeed
2019-04-24T04:09:11 < bitmask> :P
2019-04-24T04:09:24 < bitmask> why do I hear a dog downstairs
2019-04-24T04:10:15 < bitmask> oh its outside, the trickery!
2019-04-24T04:10:15 < _unreal_> mawk, heh
2019-04-24T04:10:32 < _unreal_> bitmask, see dog lies like dog
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2019-04-24T05:12:34 < mawk> everything works on the first try today
2019-04-24T05:12:38 < mawk> I should've tried the lottery
2019-04-24T05:27:06 < dongs> zyp: wires done. will forward
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2019-04-24T06:06:15 < mawk> I'm trying to cheat on my android game
2019-04-24T06:06:28 < mawk> so I decompiled the app, and like 80% of the code is about ads
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2019-04-24T09:00:20 < dongs> nice. got firmware update for 8051 usbc shit implemented, and binary is small enough to keep inside my stm32 firmware
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2019-04-24T09:09:40 < rajkosto> what does the usbc thing do
2019-04-24T09:10:21 < dongs> displayport altmode
2019-04-24T09:10:39 < dongs> not my code, i only have .hex with updates from chink vendor
2019-04-24T09:10:49 < dongs> and i2c-based thing to flash it on internal flash
2019-04-24T09:14:11 < rajkosto> wait cant you just hook up displayport onto the alt pins
2019-04-24T09:14:35 < rajkosto> it needs a 8051 to do what
2019-04-24T09:16:06 < rajkosto> usb-c DP receiver or sender
2019-04-24T09:17:18 < dongs> it needs to negotiate the altmode.
2019-04-24T09:17:20 < dongs> and PD shit.
2019-04-24T09:17:36 < dongs> both, its a PD phy + lane swapping etc.
2019-04-24T09:17:59 < rajkosto> i meant for the DP signal
2019-04-24T09:19:57 < dongs> no, because of plug orientation you need to be able to swap them
2019-04-24T09:20:02 < dongs> 4 DP lanes and AUX
2019-04-24T09:20:13 < dongs> usually this is done with external switch
2019-04-24T09:20:18 < rajkosto> and this swaps them ?
2019-04-24T09:20:21 < dongs> yes
2019-04-24T09:20:28 < rajkosto> i meant are you receiving DP
2019-04-24T09:20:29 < rajkosto> or sending it
2019-04-24T09:20:31 < rajkosto> over the plug
2019-04-24T09:20:34 < dongs> receiving
2019-04-24T09:20:41 < dongs> for my lcd adapter shit
2019-04-24T09:20:43 < rajkosto> so you wanna be virtulink ?
2019-04-24T09:21:00 < dongs> whats that shit
2019-04-24T09:21:08 < rajkosto> the USB-C connector on new RTX cards
2019-04-24T09:21:09 < rajkosto> you got one
2019-04-24T09:21:10 < dongs> i'm just making usb-c version of my displayport adapters
2019-04-24T09:21:12 < dongs> yeah it works with that too
2019-04-24T09:21:19 < rajkosto> but virtulink si different
2019-04-24T09:21:22 < dongs> plugged into my gaming rig
2019-04-24T09:21:22 < rajkosto> it allows usb3 as well as DP
2019-04-24T09:21:22 < dongs> no
2019-04-24T09:21:28 < rajkosto> instead of only usb2 and DP
2019-04-24T09:21:29 < dongs> uh, so does dispalyport altmode
2019-04-24T09:21:39 < dongs> mode C is 2 lanes of DP and usb3
2019-04-24T09:21:43 < dongs> mode D is 4 lanes of dp
2019-04-24T09:21:47 < dongs> this has been around for years.
2019-04-24T09:21:49 < rajkosto> yeah i need the D
2019-04-24T09:21:52 < dongs> virtulink adds higher power shit
2019-04-24T09:21:57 < rajkosto>  virtulink lets you have D and usb3
2019-04-24T09:22:06 < rajkosto> by changing the usb2 pins to usb3 after negotiation
2019-04-24T09:22:11 < dongs> oic
2019-04-24T09:22:12 < dongs> shrug
2019-04-24T09:22:19 < dongs> not needed for my shit
2019-04-24T09:22:29 < rajkosto> you only use a 2 lane DP to LVDS converter ?
2019-04-24T09:22:33 < dongs> 4 lane
2019-04-24T09:22:38 < dongs> i dont need usb3 at all
2019-04-24T09:22:48 < rajkosto> i want a 4 lane DP to LVDS converter
2019-04-24T09:22:53 < rajkosto> with DP 1.2 data rates
2019-04-24T09:22:58 < dongs> no, it just goes to 4 lane dp panel
2019-04-24T09:23:10 < rajkosto> eDP ?
2019-04-24T09:23:12 < dongs> Yea
2019-04-24T09:23:16 < rajkosto> what controls the backlight then
2019-04-24T09:23:25 < dongs> F0
2019-04-24T09:23:32 < dongs> chink shit could do it too but I told them i would rather do my own stuff
2019-04-24T09:24:11 < dongs> plus I wanted ability to update firmware later without dumb chinese dongles
2019-04-24T09:24:43 < rajkosto> do eDP panels just expose LED-0..4, LED+ or do they have a BL controller
2019-04-24T09:24:53 < dongs> depends on panel
2019-04-24T09:25:15 < dongs> the stanadrd 30pin 2 lane shit usually has vled from like 8-16V 
2019-04-24T09:25:37 < dongs> embedded/smaller panels have just the leds and need external controller
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2019-04-24T09:27:13 < rajkosto> tons of chink LED boost controllers if you dont need per-string control
2019-04-24T09:27:34 < dongs> yeah, this is literally why people keep buying my shit despite chink garbage being available
2019-04-24T09:27:40 < dongs> because my shit actually makes the panel light up evenly
2019-04-24T09:27:49 < dongs> :)
2019-04-24T09:28:07 < rajkosto> i use a TPS61196 and control it from f103
2019-04-24T09:28:21 < rajkosto> along with a i2c digital potentiometer for pwm free brightness control
2019-04-24T09:28:36 < dongs> fucking huge
2019-04-24T09:28:38 < rajkosto> massive
2019-04-24T09:28:54 < rajkosto> 27W backlight
2019-04-24T09:31:07 < rajkosto> its not as huge as the inductors/caps i use for it
2019-04-24T09:31:10 < rajkosto> 61V per string
2019-04-24T09:31:50 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/sd3j1fu.jpg my entire controller with coils + caps takes up less space than that TSSOP28
2019-04-24T09:32:17 < rajkosto> not really
2019-04-24T09:32:18 < rajkosto> its not that huge
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2019-04-24T09:36:22 < rajkosto> anyway good jorb what panels do you use it with
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2019-04-24T09:37:48 < rajkosto> ive encountered some recently that are V-BY-ONE instead of LVDS
2019-04-24T09:37:49 < rajkosto> wtf is that shit
2019-04-24T09:38:28 < dongs> properitary nigger shit
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2019-04-24T09:44:24 < rajkosto> advanced niggadry
2019-04-24T09:49:53 < dongs> nobody should be using lvds these days tho
2019-04-24T09:50:02 < dongs> and yeah vbyone is popular for higher rez panels
2019-04-24T09:50:38 < rajkosto> lvds is great tho
2019-04-24T09:50:41 < rajkosto> the more lanes the merrier
2019-04-24T09:50:50 < rajkosto> just shit that out of any fpga/scaler
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2019-04-24T12:37:07 < karlp> mawk: unless you're planning on replacing the OS kernel, I'd use the OS apis, not the cmsis-os wrappers for them.
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2019-04-24T12:42:01 < karlp> though the cmsis-os apis are more pleasing ont he eyes.
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2019-04-24T13:15:32 < Thorn> is there any rtos other than FreeRTOS and Kill RTX that have cmsis-rtos wrappers for them?
2019-04-24T13:15:48  * karlp shrugs
2019-04-24T13:15:59 < karlp> chibi might, perhaps?
2019-04-24T13:16:56 < Thorn> I'm just wondering why anyone would use wrappers around freertos that essentially mimic RTX APIs if they can just use RTX instead
2019-04-24T13:17:25 < Thorn> or, if they don't want RTX at all, they can use native freertos APIs (ugly as they are)
2019-04-24T13:18:37 < dongs> Thorn: did you see my beep about that DDR3 socket
2019-04-24T13:18:57 < Thorn> yeah I haven't ordered anything yet, thanks for the heads up
2019-04-24T13:19:01 < dongs> ok
2019-04-24T13:19:08 < dongs> yeah i asked chinagirl and she confirmed it was cheap as fuck
2019-04-24T13:19:11 < dongs> (even cheaper than lcsc)
2019-04-24T13:19:19 < dongs> but then i started looking further and noticed it was different pinout
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2019-04-24T14:23:10 <@englishman> dongs: lvds is still prevalent on small garbage screens like wxvga
2019-04-24T14:23:23 <@englishman> and on small garbage processors like i.mx8
2019-04-24T14:23:58 <@englishman> but dp->lvds, wot
2019-04-24T14:31:41 < rajkosto> dp->lvds exists its just all the good ones are restricted
2019-04-24T14:40:54 <@englishman> https://i.imgur.com/2U4KQao.png
2019-04-24T14:40:57 <@englishman> innovation in 2019
2019-04-24T14:54:25 <@englishman> https://www.silabs.com/products/mcu/8-bit/efm8-universal-bee
2019-04-24T14:54:34 <@englishman> 50MHz 8051 with usb, neato
2019-04-24T14:54:55 < zyp> but why
2019-04-24T14:58:10 < rajkosto> only 50MHz ?
2019-04-24T15:02:16 < rajkosto> only full speed
2019-04-24T15:02:26 < zyp> only?
2019-04-24T15:07:33 < dongs> real make:rs would use AVR and that retarded buttbanged USB
2019-04-24T15:07:36 < dongs> vusb? or whatever
2019-04-24T15:07:42 < dongs> for extra hackaday cred
2019-04-24T15:07:44 < Steffann> Da
2019-04-24T15:07:52 < dongs> using a micro with USB? PFFFFFT
2019-04-24T15:11:59 < sync> Did you mean: да?
2019-04-24T15:13:20 < Steffann> Yes
2019-04-24T15:16:10 < sync> хорошо
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2019-04-24T15:51:43 < aandrew> I've never had much use for an RTOS over freertos
2019-04-24T15:51:47 < aandrew> it's good enough and the price is right
2019-04-24T15:52:12 < aandrew> dongs: a different pinout? on a ddr3 socket?
2019-04-24T15:52:16 < aandrew> or footprint
2019-04-24T15:52:21 < dongs> ddr3 vs ddr2
2019-04-24T15:52:26 < dongs> more pins
2019-04-24T15:52:32 < dongs> different split size
2019-04-24T15:52:33 < aandrew> ah well that's not a ddr3 socket then if it's ddr2 :-)
2019-04-24T15:52:36 < dongs> yeah
2019-04-24T15:52:58 < aandrew> 8051 with usb, sounds like fx2lp
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2019-04-24T15:54:16 < aandrew> so I just realized yesterday that my first real eperience with embedded computing was an 8051 sbc my dad built in college
2019-04-24T15:54:38 < aandrew> I kind of took it over and was hand-writing (pen and paper) machine code to key in on its shitty keypad and 7seg display
2019-04-24T15:59:10 < dongs> is there any cheap non-lunix SoC that would be able to handle ~120mbit USB 2.0
2019-04-24T15:59:24 < dongs> bulk
2019-04-24T15:59:42 < aandrew> I think I am misremembering. it wasn't an sbc. it was a card-based kit (CPU board, memory board,e tc.) and he hand-built the programmer interfae which was the keypad and display
2019-04-24T15:59:43 < dongs> wonder if samA5 shit would be up to the task
2019-04-24T15:59:53 < aandrew> dongs: fx2lp?
2019-04-24T16:00:09 < dongs> receiving and doing something with it.
2019-04-24T16:00:18 < aandrew> ah not just shuttling
2019-04-24T16:00:47 < aandrew> stm32 with ulpi phy would do it but that's not exactly soc
2019-04-24T16:03:03 < Thorn> >new dual-core devices in the stm32h7 series
2019-04-24T16:04:10 < dongs> does it acvtualyl have processing power to DO anything with that stream tho
2019-04-24T16:05:03 < dongs> i'd need to DMA the shit, loop through it and calculate some statistics/stuff over the data
2019-04-24T16:05:22 < dongs> perhaps forward some/all of it over ethernet too
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2019-04-24T16:06:32 < Thorn> >stm32g4
2019-04-24T16:07:27 < dongs> the hell is g4
2019-04-24T16:08:32 < Thorn> dunno they already released HAL for it
2019-04-24T16:12:46 < Steffann> stm32g4y
2019-04-24T16:12:53 < Steffann> z
2019-04-24T16:13:07 < karlp> g0 pin optimizations, but with m4 core presumably?
2019-04-24T16:16:48 < karlp> whee, ti wifi module now with dualband shitz
2019-04-24T16:17:19 < karlp> application thorughput, 13Mbps.
2019-04-24T16:17:22 < karlp> niiiice one ti.
2019-04-24T16:21:34 < aandrew> dualband wifi but only 13mbps?
2019-04-24T16:26:40 < Steffann> I bet its as great as that cc3000 module
2019-04-24T16:30:22 < zyp> is 13Mb/s wifi on a microcontroller unreasonable?
2019-04-24T16:34:06 < karlp> just seems slow.
2019-04-24T16:35:01 < zyp> sounds plenty for a lot of application profiles to me
2019-04-24T16:35:51 < aandrew> zyp: sure, but esp32 is also plenty for 90% of applications
2019-04-24T16:35:58 < aandrew> hell esp8266 was too
2019-04-24T16:36:17 < zyp> haven't argued otherwise :)
2019-04-24T16:37:01 < aandrew> heh
2019-04-24T16:56:43 < rajkosto> fx2lp would be able to do 400mbps usb 2.0 but not process any of the data
2019-04-24T16:57:03 < karlp> how long has renesas has cortex m parts?
2019-04-24T16:57:15 < karlp> I thought they only had their own proprietary stuff
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2019-04-24T17:12:30 < karlp> way too many $ anyway
2019-04-24T17:14:17 < kakimir> for a while
2019-04-24T17:14:21 < karlp> Thorn: https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeG4
2019-04-24T17:14:41 < karlp> three new nucleos
2019-04-24T17:15:09 < Thorn> ST discovered github?
2019-04-24T17:15:12 < Thorn> lol
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2019-04-24T17:16:31 < kakimir> karlp: are you planning to renesas?
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2019-04-24T17:17:20 < karlp> kakimir: no, just reading my emails
2019-04-24T17:17:37 < karlp> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/stm32g-series/msg2302464/ claims it's all busted though...
2019-04-24T17:17:57 < kakimir> renesas would be like pro level of obscure chips
2019-04-24T17:20:30 < karlp> gonna have to replace all uses of "tim6 is always available" with "tim2 is always available, though it might be 16 or 32bit"
2019-04-24T17:22:35 < Thorn> busted as in silicon bugs?
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2019-04-24T17:49:18 < bitmask> o/
2019-04-24T17:49:44 < bitmask> mawk how do you decompile an android app
2019-04-24T17:50:56 < mawk> first get the app in .apk form from whatever means you like, then you have programs like dex2jar to do it
2019-04-24T17:51:05 < mawk> also if you just open it in android studio you'll see java assembly
2019-04-24T17:51:12 < mawk> just select the .apk in android studio
2019-04-24T17:51:30 < mawk> dex2jar will decompile dex to compiled java, then use your favorite java decompiler
2019-04-24T17:51:56 < mawk> like jd-gui
2019-04-24T17:52:10 < mawk> but often the thing you're decompiling won't be 100% java, in my case it's a unity game so C#
2019-04-24T17:52:22 < mawk> so you need to find the .dll in some resource folder and use .NET disassembler on that
2019-04-24T17:52:26 < mawk> but it may be obfuscated, etc
2019-04-24T17:52:28 < mawk> as always
2019-04-24T17:54:48 < bitmask> I see thanks, I figured it would always be obfuscated
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2019-04-24T17:59:00 < jadew`> several years back I decompiled the contacts app on my samsung phone to add support for my custom contacts provider
2019-04-24T17:59:15 < jadew`> had to learn that java intermediary language (like assembly, but for the JVM)
2019-04-24T17:59:58 < jadew`> wasn't that difficult, I think that within a couple of hours I had the required functionality on my phone
2019-04-24T18:02:25 < mawk> nice
2019-04-24T18:04:55 < karlp> what is your custom contacts provider?
2019-04-24T18:05:21 < karlp> had you worked with IL before?
2019-04-24T18:05:49 < karlp> I'm somewhat incredulous that you went from IL to recompiled and back on the phone in a  couple of hours if you'd never done it before.
2019-04-24T18:08:18 < jadew`> karlp, I had my own contacts db on my server
2019-04-24T18:08:33 < jadew`> so I made a contacts provider for my phone, but the contacts app didn't recognize it
2019-04-24T18:09:01 < jadew`> I don't know the exact amount of time I spent on it, but I don't think it was more than a couple of hours
2019-04-24T18:09:06 < jadew`> (on the contacts app itself)
2019-04-24T18:09:50 < jadew`> and I haven't worked with java IL before, that was my first time
2019-04-24T18:10:00 < jadew`> I'm not a java person
2019-04-24T18:10:09 < bitmask> so I ordered some loose ws2813's they must be fakes because I don't see a phosphor layer, how does that work?
2019-04-24T18:10:30  * karlp should shop out some software to jadew.  producticvity is amazing.
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2019-04-24T18:10:43 < karlp> what's your hourly rate? must be pretty high if your hours are so low?
2019-04-24T18:11:26 < jadew`> karlp, I don't know... I haven't freelanced in a while
2019-04-24T18:11:39 < karlp> bitmask: why were you expecting a phosphor layer?
2019-04-24T18:11:58 < bitmask> I thought ws2813's had one for the white led
2019-04-24T18:12:10 < karlp> did you check what a ws2813 was before you bought them?
2019-04-24T18:12:23 < bitmask> ? its a ws2812b with white
2019-04-24T18:12:32 < karlp> not the way I'm reading it.
2019-04-24T18:12:35 < bitmask> really?
2019-04-24T18:12:37 < bitmask> hmm
2019-04-24T18:12:59 < karlp> ws2813 just has two control signals instead of one.
2019-04-24T18:13:00 < bitmask> where did I get that idea :P
2019-04-24T18:13:27  * karlp shrugs
2019-04-24T18:14:36 < karlp> sk6812 comes ina rgbw version?
2019-04-24T18:15:24 < bitmask> yea I think I must have confused it with that
2019-04-24T18:15:31 < bitmask> meh oh well
2019-04-24T18:19:31 < Thorn> >1:The price for 1-2 layer PCB prototypes has decreased by 50% to 70% 3:24H lead time for 1-2 layer pr ototypes , no expedited fee 4:No dimension limitation for promotional boards, only $5 for 5pcs of 1-2 layer boards with single board area ≤ 0 .01㎡,
2019-04-24T18:19:46 < Thorn> sounds like allpcb is in trouble
2019-04-24T18:21:00 < Thorn> jlcpcb stole all their customers
2019-04-24T18:21:40 < jadew`> if they'd just drop that dumb code from the silkscreen, they'd be perfect
2019-04-24T18:21:50 < jadew`> I think I like JLCPCB too
2019-04-24T18:22:16 < jadew`> if you have several boards, you get free shipping via DHL, which is huge
2019-04-24T18:22:36 < mawk> they don't use shipping fee anymore ?
2019-04-24T18:22:44 < mawk> for me it was like $2 for 10 boards and $20 shipping fee
2019-04-24T18:25:12 < jadew`> you drew the short stick
2019-04-24T18:25:19 < mawk> :(
2019-04-24T18:25:26 < jadew`> I paid $42 for my boards, no shipping fee
2019-04-24T18:29:26 < karlp> jlpcb was expensive shipping for me too,
2019-04-24T18:30:24 < jadew`> I only ordered once from them, but it seemed that if I get to pay for it, it's only ~$16 for DHL
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2019-04-24T18:31:44 < jadew`> had other problems with them, but now I know what they are so I can fix them in advance
2019-04-24T18:33:54 < jadew`> I think their problem is they have too many orders and their employees are rushing things
2019-04-24T18:34:54 < jadew`> they're supposed to be good at math so there's no other explanation for giving me 5 wrong invoices
2019-04-24T18:40:13 < Cracki> so... which one to avoid right now, allpcb or jlc?
2019-04-24T18:40:26 < Cracki> not quite clear from y'all's complaints :P
2019-04-24T18:40:33 < mawk> for the price it is you can just try
2019-04-24T18:40:38 < mawk> and too bad if it wasn't good
2019-04-24T18:40:50 < mawk> except for your lost time, but I'm sure they have express shipping
2019-04-24T18:40:51 < Cracki> buy from both at the same time maybe?
2019-04-24T18:40:56 < mawk> in 2 or 3 days to europe
2019-04-24T18:41:01 < mawk> yeah if you're rich enough
2019-04-24T18:41:10 < Cracki> I can live with 2-6 weeks
2019-04-24T18:41:28 < mawk> but it couldn't really go wrong, just maybe shit silkscreen, their watermark over it, etc
2019-04-24T18:41:31 < Cracki> I can _not_ live with dhl express fuckery
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2019-04-24T18:42:14 < Cracki> mostly because shotguns aren't easy to own around here, and perforating the messenger doesn't send the right message to whoever's in charge
2019-04-24T18:43:46 < Cracki> so... that "code on the silkscreen" is jlc I take it?
2019-04-24T18:44:11 < jadew`> it's almost all of them
2019-04-24T18:44:23 < Cracki> huh
2019-04-24T18:44:31 < jadew`> elecrow doesn't have it, but their silkscreen quality is shit as of recently
2019-04-24T18:44:34 < jadew`> the boards too
2019-04-24T18:44:44 < Cracki> is it magic numbers or can you tell stuff from looking at it?
2019-04-24T18:45:00 < jadew`> it's some random order number I guess
2019-04-24T18:45:08 < jadew`> you can't tell anything useful by reading it
2019-04-24T18:45:47 < Cracki> good, mystic runes look important to customers
2019-04-24T18:46:20 < Cracki> have you tried flood/patternfilling silkscreen? I wonder what they'd do with their numbers then
2019-04-24T18:46:40 < jadew`> hah, they'd put them in the copper or something
2019-04-24T18:47:40 < Cracki> I wonder if they use ocr to verify right boards in right order, or if a human has to read these
2019-04-24T18:49:13 < jadew`> judging by how many pictures I've seen of long benches with women sorting and analyzing crap on boards, I'd say it's a human
2019-04-24T18:49:18 < jadew`> with a magnifying glass
2019-04-24T18:50:17 < Cracki> they'd be smart to make first/last digits random... aliexpress order numbers all seem to end in 5, and even the last 3 digits are (almost) the same
2019-04-24T18:50:40 < jadew`> yeah, aliexpress order numbers are fucking stupid
2019-04-24T18:50:54 < jadew`> they begin and end the same
2019-04-24T18:51:01 < jadew`> you can't quickly look them up
2019-04-24T18:51:40 < Cracki> right now they're 100... and then some incrementing stuff. that's something at least
2019-04-24T18:52:35 < Cracki> hm, simple browser extension that puts a separator before the ...3195
2019-04-24T18:52:39 < mawk> all my ali orders end in 0022
2019-04-24T18:52:51 < Cracki> interesting
2019-04-24T18:53:17 < jadew`> the higher it is, the better than person
2019-04-24T18:53:21 < mawk> lol
2019-04-24T18:53:23 < jadew`> mine end in 83xx
2019-04-24T18:53:28 < jadew`> :P
2019-04-24T18:53:55 < Cracki> maybe that's a hash of some user id
2019-04-24T18:54:01 < jadew`> could be
2019-04-24T18:54:10 < Cracki> I'm unaware of having an user id
2019-04-24T18:54:12 < jadew`> Cracki, you can write a tamper monkey script in seconds
2019-04-24T18:54:22 < Cracki> indeed, I would never write a fullblown ext
2019-04-24T18:54:46 < jadew`> in fact, I might do just that as I'm waiting for this print to finish
2019-04-24T18:54:51 < jadew`> it's a great idea
2019-04-24T18:54:53 < jadew`> thanks
2019-04-24T18:55:04 < Cracki> it'd have to filter the whole dom, all text nodes, and look for a string of digits
2019-04-24T18:55:07 < Cracki> heh
2019-04-24T18:55:26 < jadew`> I only need it in the list of orders
2019-04-24T18:55:54 < Cracki> indeed
2019-04-24T18:57:38 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/HKGlMtN.png
2019-04-24T18:57:42 < bitmask> my heatsink game is strong
2019-04-24T18:57:46 < bitmask> (not really)
2019-04-24T18:58:04 < aandrew> that's a lot of heatsinks
2019-04-24T18:58:14 < Cracki> prolly bought a lot of stepper drivers :>
2019-04-24T18:58:57 < bitmask> I want to try out some power supply designs so I wanted to get some heatsinks, for the price I figured id get a small collection
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2019-04-24T18:59:17 < Cracki> ... do people actually expect torque between two microsteps to be same as torque between full steps? that's this "incremental" torque bullshit.
2019-04-24T18:59:46 < Cracki> amazing how all these "microstepping reduces torque" people never talk about load angle
2019-04-24T19:00:42 < jadew`> Cracki, it's done
2019-04-24T19:00:44 < jadew`> want it?
2019-04-24T19:00:54 < jadew`> it's a 3-liner
2019-04-24T19:02:20 < Cracki> of course
2019-04-24T19:02:20 < jadew`> http://5.12.95.9/stuff/ali-dash.js
2019-04-24T19:03:06 < Cracki> excellent
2019-04-24T19:03:22 < jadew`> found a derp in there, but of no consequences
2019-04-24T19:03:28 < jadew`> I included the $ in the match
2019-04-24T19:04:01 < jadew`> fixed
2019-04-24T19:04:55 < jadew`> I like it
2019-04-24T19:05:31 < Cracki> uh, it turns 2019 into -2019 :D
2019-04-24T19:05:36 < jadew`> yeah
2019-04-24T19:05:48 < jadew`> new update (works on the next page too :P)
2019-04-24T19:05:52 < Cracki> slight tweaking of the rex
2019-04-24T19:06:05 < Cracki> oh, they inline update the page?
2019-04-24T19:06:09 < Cracki> sneaky
2019-04-24T19:06:12 < jadew`> not sure
2019-04-24T19:06:15 < jadew`> the link changed
2019-04-24T19:06:25 < Cracki> then it should... I hope
2019-04-24T19:06:28 < jadew`> but on the next page there are no parameters in the link
2019-04-24T19:06:30 < jadew`> so no ?
2019-04-24T19:06:33 < Cracki> some sites update the url without actually reloading
2019-04-24T19:06:34 < jadew`> and the match of the script included the ?
2019-04-24T19:06:40 < Cracki> tampermonkey doesn't register that as needing to execute
2019-04-24T19:06:52 < jadew`> hmm, let me check
2019-04-24T19:07:02 < jadew`> no, it works
2019-04-24T19:07:12 < Cracki> when I go to next page, the whole ?... disappears
2019-04-24T19:07:21 < jadew`> yeah
2019-04-24T19:07:47 < jadew`> the update doesn't have the ? in the @match section
2019-04-24T19:07:50 < Cracki> replace(/(\d+)(\d{4})$/, '$1-$2')
2019-04-24T19:08:07 < jadew`> why?
2019-04-24T19:08:11 < jadew`> it's the same thing
2019-04-24T19:08:26 < Cracki> it wants more digits before the last four
2019-04-24T19:08:34 < Cracki> leaves years alone
2019-04-24T19:08:44 < jadew`> oh
2019-04-24T19:08:51 < jadew`> hmm, that's not the fix
2019-04-24T19:08:53 < jadew`> give me a sec
2019-04-24T19:09:07 < Cracki> somewhere between april 6 and april 10, their prefix went from 50 to 100
2019-04-24T19:09:09 < Cracki> funny
2019-04-24T19:09:52 < jadew`> ok, updated
2019-04-24T19:09:56 < jadew`> and hopefully properly fixed
2019-04-24T19:12:16 < jadew`> now it's properly fixed
2019-04-24T19:12:33 < jadew`> it's only selecting the order number
2019-04-24T19:12:41 < jadew`> previous version was also selecting the shop name :P
2019-04-24T19:12:57 < jadew`> and the print just finished
2019-04-24T19:12:59 < jadew`> perfect timing
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2019-04-24T19:56:31 < Cracki> shop name contains digits?
2019-04-24T19:58:32 < Cracki> now if only that dash would show up on package labels too
2019-04-24T20:04:24 -!- tprrt [~tprrt@217.114.201.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2019-04-24T20:05:12 < jadew`> heh
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2019-04-24T20:32:10 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/free-shipping-New-Pigeons-holder-dove-special-medicine-injection-fixer-1-pcs/32799891540.html
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2019-04-24T20:39:26 < jadew`> lots of customers
2019-04-24T20:42:25 < Cracki> it has no slots or drill holes, I can't mount that on my chinese pigeon injection machine!
2019-04-24T20:48:12 < aandrew> bitmask: what. the. fuck
2019-04-24T20:48:37 < bitmask> haha
2019-04-24T20:49:18 < aandrew> how in the hell did you even come across that
2019-04-24T20:49:59 < bitmask> I think just browsing on the main page
2019-04-24T20:50:01 < aandrew> and now I'm gonna have weird shit come up in my ali searches, didn't think before clicking
2019-04-24T20:51:33 < bitmask> worth it
2019-04-24T21:06:13 < jadew`> lol, already started for me
2019-04-24T21:06:59 < jadew`> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ins-Pet-short-plush-Blanket-Warm-Cute-Pouch-Egg-Yolk-Bedroom-Quilt-Cat-Puppy-Rest-Pet/32895314672.html
2019-04-24T21:07:15 < jadew`> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Breathable-Cute-Pig-Dog-Muzzle-Silicone-Anti-bite-Dog-Muzzles-Stop-Bark-Bite-Mouth-Mask-Adjustable/32875834590.html
2019-04-24T21:07:40 < jadew`> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/50-pcs-sell-like-hot-cakes-Chicken-Glasses-Goggles-Anti-pecking-glasses-Chicken-necessary-Retail-and/32507239310.html
2019-04-24T21:08:01 < jadew`> that's from my home page
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2019-04-24T21:22:03 < Steffann> Note: do not click. Aliexpress will not forget
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2019-04-24T21:57:53 < Cracki> thanks I clicked them all
2019-04-24T21:58:01 < Cracki> >sell like hot cakes
2019-04-24T21:58:29 < Cracki> someone makes a model, someone makes the injection mold, and then they make a billion parts
2019-04-24T22:00:07 < Cracki> they hook that into their nostrils?!
2019-04-24T22:00:57 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD9xk3SDSYc fresh demoscene
2019-04-24T22:01:26 < Cracki> love the ring tone, mr. anderson
2019-04-24T22:01:39 < jadew`> Cracki, injection molds are expensive, so it must be an already successful product for them to make it
2019-04-24T22:02:14 < kakimir> I know a place
2019-04-24T22:02:15 < Cracki> doubt it. the 18650x4 holders I bought off aliex showed mill trails on the bottom, so that must have been cheap as shit
2019-04-24T22:02:43 < Cracki> imagine this:
2019-04-24T22:02:54 < Cracki> some bright dude on a chicken farm has a 3d printer. he tries some stuff.
2019-04-24T22:03:09 < Cracki> daddy owns the thing, sees it, wants lots more.
2019-04-24T22:03:44 < Cracki> so they make a small mold. you can plop down a few thousand bucks, I guess?
2019-04-24T22:03:57 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-24T22:04:12 < Cracki> that pays for itself like right away
2019-04-24T22:04:35 < Cracki> and when you do it in china, it's probably even cheaper
2019-04-24T22:04:36 < kakimir> and you don usually make mold for one
2019-04-24T22:04:47 < Cracki> yes, small for like a few dozen, not hundreds
2019-04-24T22:04:48 < kakimir> machine where it goes is big
2019-04-24T22:05:07 < Cracki> I'm sure the chinese can do injection molding for small runs too
2019-04-24T22:05:50 < Cracki> kek, alibaba "injection molding", 500 pc min order, 5-10 cents/piece
2019-04-24T22:06:07 < Cracki> I'm sure the setup costs are listed at the bottom
2019-04-24T22:06:15 < kakimir> certainly
2019-04-24T22:06:39 < kakimir> and that 5-10 is with the crappyest plastic
2019-04-24T22:07:00 < Cracki> and the crappest milled molds
2019-04-24T22:07:27 < Cracki> I mean.. any cheapass 3 axis portal mill can do a lot already
2019-04-24T22:07:40 < Cracki> do it in aluminium, to hell with wear
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2019-04-24T22:09:16 < jpa-> i've cut mild steel with CNC3020, surface quality is surprisingly ok if you go crazy slow
2019-04-24T22:09:25 < Cracki> hm, they don't mention setup costs. they prolly want you to get the molds milled elsewhere, and only give you interface specs so they can install them
2019-04-24T22:10:34 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y6S7_LJfGczAww756LTS35FzKD7dkt_b/view?usp=sharing alu machine
2019-04-24T22:10:43 < kakimir> plastic machine is similar
2019-04-24T22:11:01 < Cracki> one listing says "[...] If the mold cavity has more than 2 [...]" so they _do_ do single cavities? awesome
2019-04-24T22:11:03 < jpa-> if those are made of silicone, you can use various kinds of cheap mold materials
2019-04-24T22:11:48 < kakimir> Cracki: big on certainly
2019-04-24T22:12:33 < Cracki> goddamn more people in the western world need to know about this
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2019-04-24T22:13:03 < kakimir> know about what?
2019-04-24T22:13:10 < Cracki> about cheap injection molding from china
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2019-04-24T22:13:35 < kakimir> doubt
2019-04-24T22:13:43 < Cracki> half a year ago all busses in my city got rfid readers... they must have installed hundreds of custom cases because before all that, a few of them drove around with 3d-printed BLACK BOXES, literally boxes
2019-04-24T22:13:44 < kakimir> try and tell
2019-04-24T22:14:46 < Cracki> they could have used random plastic cases for that instead of 3d shoddy printing
2019-04-24T22:14:51 < mawk> they do do
2019-04-24T22:15:01 < Cracki> doodoo printing
2019-04-24T22:15:09 < mawk> doodoo means plushie in french
2019-04-24T22:15:12 < mawk> doudou
2019-04-24T22:15:13 < Cracki> shit
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2019-04-24T22:15:17 < mawk> lol
2019-04-24T22:18:07 < Steffann> French 101
2019-04-24T22:19:01 < Cracki> I must say, mathworks documentation is superb. they work you though literally everything their products can do. I was wondering how to make a wheel roll on ground. it's a "rack and pinion" constraint. they even have a doc page for all their gear constraints, and they explain all the peculiarities and they work you through making it work.
2019-04-24T22:20:12 < Cracki> I have no idea how else I could simulate the physics of an inverted pendulum, except by bothering with all the kinematics equations
2019-04-24T22:21:12 < jpa-> with blender, of course
2019-04-24T22:21:20 < mawk> simulating is usually easier than solving
2019-04-24T22:21:49 < Cracki> it says it's actually solving equations, where it can
2019-04-24T22:22:09 < Cracki> not sure how far that goes
2019-04-24T22:22:14 < mawk> take the equation, replace every derivative by the proper discrete derivative approximation of the appropriate order according to input data smoothness
2019-04-24T22:22:22 < mawk> then you've got a simple recurrence equation
2019-04-24T22:22:32 < Cracki> I know simulink uses variable time steps and some fancy numerical methods
2019-04-24T22:22:43 < mawk> usually kinematics are differential equations
2019-04-24T22:22:44 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucp0TTmvqOE did you hear? tesla made a chip
2019-04-24T22:22:50 < mawk> we know how to solve only an incredibly tiny fraction of them
2019-04-24T22:22:56 < Cracki> I'm sure it's doing derivatives and integrals symbolically within the physics package it has
2019-04-24T22:22:59 < mawk> without computers we're lost
2019-04-24T22:23:20 < Cracki> tesla chip eh? wat for
2019-04-24T22:23:28 < Cracki> don't make me watch 4 hours
2019-04-24T22:23:37 < jpa-> for every differential equation i can solve, the answer is A * e^Bx
2019-04-24T22:24:19 < Cracki> ah, at 1:09:00 it starts
2019-04-24T22:25:59 < mawk> even for something as simple as a pendulum the solution is pretty difficult, involving something called elleptical functions
2019-04-24T22:26:12 < mawk> only if the angle of swing is small we can approximate something simple with sine and cosine
2019-04-24T22:26:19 < Cracki> so their chip is like an nvidia compute module or what
2019-04-24T22:26:22 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-24T22:26:31 < mawk> and they bragged about bigger numbers of flops than nvidia
2019-04-24T22:26:38 < Cracki> asics to accelerate computer vision are state of the art, but not surprising
2019-04-24T22:26:43 < mawk> but they were wrong and nvidia made a press release tapping on their fingers
2019-04-24T22:26:49 < Cracki> I'm sure, for specialized tasks, they can beat a gpu
2019-04-24T22:26:52 < Cracki> haha
2019-04-24T22:26:55 < mawk> it's just cpu+gpu
2019-04-24T22:26:58 < mawk> on the boards
2019-04-24T22:27:00 < mawk> nothing wonderful
2019-04-24T22:27:05 < Cracki> ;)
2019-04-24T22:27:32 < Cracki> ah screw exact solutions, I'm gonna drive that model with a controller anyway
2019-04-24T22:28:00 < kakimir> it's neural network optimized
2019-04-24T22:28:20 < Cracki> that means fixed function for convolutions and activation functions
2019-04-24T22:28:47 < Cracki> we had AI acceleration stuff in here a week or two ago, didn't we? some chinese thing
2019-04-24T22:30:40 < Cracki> "sometimes things go through, and the rocket lands on a pedestal in the middle of the ocean, and sometimes ... it blows up in mid-air.”
2019-04-24T22:30:55 < Cracki> that sounds like creationism deserving equal time in the class room
2019-04-24T22:31:16 < Cracki> like it's a coin flip instead of one RUD in a hundred
2019-04-24T22:33:19 < Cracki> I fucking hate these articles. so tesla has a guy who did chips for intel and apple (who are very successful with their own processors!), and they still think it's a fool's errand
2019-04-24T22:35:17 < Cracki> 72 tflops, that's on par with nvidia
2019-04-24T22:36:31 < specing> wtf, tesla makes chips too?
2019-04-24T22:36:38 < specing> vertical integration taken a bit too far?
2019-04-24T22:37:07 < Rickta59> didn't gm develop a 555 timer? they got sued for?
2019-04-24T22:37:20 < Rickta59> or was it ford
2019-04-24T22:37:45 < Rickta59> or i'm just misremembering it
2019-04-24T22:38:42 < kakimir> Cracki: they don't use floating points
2019-04-24T22:38:47 < Cracki> i know
2019-04-24T22:38:51 < kakimir> because expensive operation
2019-04-24T22:38:57 < Cracki> half floats or even int8
2019-04-24T22:39:01 < kakimir> I knew all along
2019-04-24T22:39:08 < Cracki> that's how nvidia gets 150 tflops in its tensor thingy
2019-04-24T22:39:17 < Cracki> for inference you don't need more
2019-04-24T22:39:43 < kakimir> I have never used floating point in my own embedded code.. but once but that was because obscure sensor decoding that I didn't want to rewrite
2019-04-24T22:40:05 < Cracki> and the bit of fp32 crunch they do bring, they can use at night, _if_ they even learn individually instead of on tesla's supercomputers
2019-04-24T22:41:38 < Cracki> nvidia pegasus claims 320 INT8 TOPS 
2019-04-24T22:41:44 < Cracki> so they're in the same ballpark
2019-04-24T22:41:53 < Cracki> nv xavier was at 30 int8 tops
2019-04-24T22:42:03 < kakimir> for what power consumption?
2019-04-24T22:42:10 < Cracki> double digit watts
2019-04-24T22:42:21 < Cracki> 30 int8 for 30 watts, and 320 int8 for 500 watts
2019-04-24T22:42:46 < Cracki> so they will prolly sell that to scandinavia and use it for butt heating
2019-04-24T22:43:11 < Cracki> my source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Drive
2019-04-24T22:44:10 < kakimir> interesting
2019-04-24T22:44:17 < kakimir> I have not heard of nvidia drive
2019-04-24T22:44:22 < kakimir> only nvidia tegra
2019-04-24T22:44:49 < Cracki> tegra with a suitable baseboard and sdk :P
2019-04-24T22:45:20 < Cracki> I'll bet they worked on that 500 watt beast when they got wind of tesla doing their own thing
2019-04-24T22:45:28 < Cracki> *started working
2019-04-24T22:47:10 < Cracki> the 500w beast is just like the 30 watt thing, but with two discrete turings slapped on top. that reeks of wanting to meet crunch spec while ignoring power spec
2019-04-24T22:52:42 < Cracki> kek the chip design dude had 35 years on him, 12 in a company swallowed by apple. I think they're onto something.
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2019-04-24T23:04:12 < Cracki> hah, relu in hardware. knew it
2019-04-24T23:23:08 < Cracki> so... 144 tops for 72 watts, vs 20-30 tops for 15 watts. those are raw numbers tho, and their architecture is a lot more optimized and can actually make use of all that crunch. nvidia probably waits around a lot, thanks memory bw
2019-04-24T23:24:04 < Cracki> 1:32:6
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2019-04-24T23:26:07 < Cracki> hahah some windows laptop complains about low batt
2019-04-24T23:26:43 < kakimir> is it yours?
2019-04-24T23:26:50 < Cracki> nah, in the tesla video
2019-04-24T23:26:53 < Cracki> I know the sound :>
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2019-04-24T23:28:15 < Cracki> so... 1440 tops / 2300 fps means 0.62 tops/frame for their solution, while nvidia does 21-30 tops / 110 fps = 3.6-5.2 tops/frame
2019-04-24T23:28:46 < Cracki> or rather that much time wasted, i.e. the difference at least, not crunching but waiting for memory or something
2019-04-24T23:30:53 < Cracki> oh wait I mixed it up
2019-04-24T23:31:23 < Cracki> 0.62 tops vs 0.27 tops, so nvidia waits around two thirds of the time
2019-04-24T23:32:48 < Cracki> actually using all the crunch is a central theme of high performance computing. they teach you about all the memory layers and all the bandwidth, and they make you do plots where you see every memory layer you break out of you get slower
2019-04-24T23:37:51 < Cracki> LOL at 1:36 elon jumps in, says "we finished this 1.-2 years ago, and began the design of the next generation"
2019-04-24T23:38:06 < Cracki> yay pipeline, we're seeing two year old stuff
2019-04-24T23:40:52 < Cracki> just noticed, my math was wrong but the two thirds waiting is still about right
2019-04-24T23:41:04 < kakimir> Elon mad
2019-04-24T23:41:38 < Cracki> they're all bitter that he gets those incredibly awesome people to do incredibly awesome stuff
2019-04-24T23:42:01 < Cracki> I keep thinking it's the horseless carriage all over again, and all the other players try bolting extra legs onto their horses
2019-04-24T23:42:46 < Cracki> they do what they've always done because they can't afford to risk falling behind even more. he's comfortably in the lead and he can afford to make victory dances like that damned chip
2019-04-24T23:43:11 < kakimir> it's a major release
2019-04-24T23:43:43 < kakimir> don't forget that tesla is technology company.. they just manufacture and sell cars
2019-04-24T23:44:12 < kakimir> something to keep them wheels turning
2019-04-24T23:44:45 < Cracki> and they do that beautifully
2019-04-24T23:44:54 < kakimir> I need food>
2019-04-24T23:45:11 < Cracki> I sometimes think that 18650 look yummy, don't you?
2019-04-24T23:45:40 < mawk> it looks smoky
2019-04-24T23:45:45 < mawk> because I put that in my electronic cigarettes
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2019-04-24T23:53:52 < Cracki> elon "ANYONE [doing x] IS DOOMED"
2019-04-24T23:54:46 < Cracki> oh boy someone taught him how to overcome his stage fright
2019-04-24T23:56:12 < kakimir> Doomed!
--- Day changed Thu Apr 25 2019
2019-04-25T00:00:06 < kakimir> he is just too excited to tell his opinion
2019-04-25T00:00:12 < Cracki> that he is
2019-04-25T00:00:38 < Cracki> that custom chip will make it very hard for the chinese to just copy their software when they can't also copy the chip, which samsung fabs in austin, texas
2019-04-25T00:01:46 < Cracki> it's also futile to take their down-compiled nets and retarget them to nvidia hw because nv hw just can't compare in efficiency. they really never wait for DRAM, it's all on chip
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2019-04-25T00:03:24 < Cracki> I wonder what groundbreaking difference in operation the next chip would have. they already _did_ the zero wait crunching. all you can do now is scale it out and give it more features.
2019-04-25T00:04:01 < Cracki> designs like this aren't new, just the ambition, skilled execution, and the narrow focus are new
2019-04-25T00:04:35 < kakimir> it's fully autonomous driving
2019-04-25T00:04:39 < Cracki> they mentioned one chip that did batch large sizes because it had such a deep pipeline and they couldn't use that otherwise
2019-04-25T00:05:13 < Cracki> not quite. the hw _can do_ it (they claim), but the software/DNN side needs to catch up too
2019-04-25T00:05:28 < kakimir> true
2019-04-25T00:05:55 < Cracki> that hugely pipelined thing was made for cloud inference and training iirc, so basically fuck latency, we want throughput
2019-04-25T00:06:28 < Cracki> elon's goal was obviously low latency. I think if they relax that again, they'll get even more performance per transistor
2019-04-25T00:06:38 < Cracki> I think that's what they'll do
2019-04-25T00:09:17 < Cracki> at 1:24:30 the chart is wrong and now I know why... the y axis isn't fps, it's effective gigaops
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2019-04-25T00:09:52 < Cracki> or maybe not effective, but raw
2019-04-25T00:10:48 < Cracki> 1:27:56, they do the whole loop _every clock cycle_
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2019-04-25T00:49:43 < Cracki> if that the second dude talks about is really state of the art, I think there is still some time to breathe
2019-04-25T00:50:49 < Cracki> it's game over once neural networks get past plato's cave and we can talk to them, tell them directly what matters
2019-04-25T00:58:07 < kakimir> can I see my ide gdb client talkin with gdb server somehow?
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2019-04-25T01:16:58 < mawk> yes kakimir you surely can
2019-04-25T01:17:01 < mawk> with netstat or something
2019-04-25T01:17:08 < mawk> but the protocol will maybe not be intelligible
2019-04-25T01:17:11 < mawk> you can try
2019-04-25T01:17:20 < mawk> my solder flows too much
2019-04-25T01:17:32 < mawk> I was soldering a micro-usb and the solder flowed up on the port body
2019-04-25T01:17:47 < mawk> now the port body is completely tinned
2019-04-25T01:18:04 < mawk> gravity-defying liquid metal blob
2019-04-25T01:23:00 < Cracki> hand soldered or too much spackled on?
2019-04-25T01:24:41 < kakimir> solder has like highest surface tension I know
2019-04-25T01:35:37 < mawk> this one has a lot of flux in it
2019-04-25T01:35:41 < mawk> and I added additional flux alsop
2019-04-25T01:36:05 < mawk> it was rework from crap chinese bluepill Cracki 
2019-04-25T01:36:15 < Cracki> lovely
2019-04-25T01:36:18 < mawk> badly soldered micro-usb connector that had shorted data lines
2019-04-25T01:36:54 < Cracki> just throw it away, your time working on it is worth more
2019-04-25T01:37:03 < mawk> yeah then sent me one free
2019-04-25T01:37:07 < Rajko> what if your time is worthless
2019-04-25T01:37:11 < mawk> :(
2019-04-25T01:37:15 < Rajko> and you dont feel like waiting 11 days for a new one
2019-04-25T01:37:27 < Cracki> indeed time's value is very flexible
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2019-04-25T01:39:27 < Cracki> so... that tesla talk, they showed some radar data, but only as labeled blobs with distance
2019-04-25T01:39:55 < ds2> wick + flux should make it useable
2019-04-25T01:39:57 < Cracki> I understand it's a phased array so they can tell distance and horizontal angle
2019-04-25T01:40:03 < Cracki> but do they also have vertical angle in there?
2019-04-25T01:40:28 < Cracki> I know industrial radar can give you two angles out of it, or let's say give you a picture instead of just a scanline
2019-04-25T01:49:22 < aandrew> hahaha
2019-04-25T01:49:23 < aandrew> https://freelancer.arrow.com/projects/android/need-support-mipi-lane-display
2019-04-25T01:49:29 < aandrew> someone at freecancer emailed me tryign to fulfil that
2019-04-25T01:49:39 < Cracki> uh, it wants a login
2019-04-25T01:49:44 < aandrew> oh
2019-04-25T01:49:45 < aandrew> moment
2019-04-25T01:50:21 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/nqKK4VF
2019-04-25T01:50:54 < aandrew> "hack the video driver for this unknown SoC, likely with shit docu, to add 2-lane MIPI support for up to $2500"
2019-04-25T01:51:14 < aandrew> http://amazfitcentral.com/2017/08/06/ingenic-m200s-amazfit-cpu/ that is the SoC
2019-04-25T01:51:20 < aandrew> "amazfit" fucking lol
2019-04-25T01:51:41 < Cracki> order complete should include "and it replicates in house"
2019-04-25T01:52:11 < Cracki> so... can that docu be had without trouble?
2019-04-25T01:52:40 < Cracki> I mean, if I thought I could do it, I might first look at the docs and see if it's at all documented
2019-04-25T01:52:58 < Cracki> 2500 sounds like 1-2 weeks of work?
2019-04-25T01:53:10 < aandrew> well look at the chip  I linked
2019-04-25T01:53:15 < aandrew> does it *look* like the docu will be good?
2019-04-25T01:53:23 < aandrew> probably non-mainline kernel too
2019-04-25T01:53:29 < Cracki> of course
2019-04-25T01:53:50 < Cracki> not I'm at ingenic.com.cn/en/
2019-04-25T01:54:34 < Cracki> sheet says it can do 2 lines, so that's that
2019-04-25T01:54:49 < Cracki> pulling data sheet
2019-04-25T01:55:26 < Cracki> oh looky, linux source code
2019-04-25T01:56:12 < Cracki> table 2-21 says which pins are lane0 and lane1
2019-04-25T01:56:38 < Cracki> now the friggen ftp timed out
2019-04-25T01:57:00 < Cracki> ah, it's just an ip, awesome
2019-04-25T01:57:58 < aandrew> god freecancer is such shit
2019-04-25T01:58:01 < Cracki> do you have copies of that stuff, their linux source etc?
2019-04-25T01:58:03 < Cracki> of course it is
2019-04-25T01:58:04 < aandrew> it looks like arrow bought them now
2019-04-25T01:58:32 < Cracki> wait, getting a 2lane display running on raspi is half the work?
2019-04-25T02:00:12 < Cracki> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/gpu/drm/panel/panel-sitronix-st7701.c
2019-04-25T02:00:16 < Cracki> so there's that
2019-04-25T02:00:35 < aandrew> yep I'm not touching that project with a 10 foot pole
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2019-04-25T02:01:09 < Cracki> that file sets fields in a struct mipi_dsi_device 
2019-04-25T02:01:13 < Cracki> that sounds reasonably api-ish
2019-04-25T02:01:24 < aandrew> yep
2019-04-25T02:01:37 < Cracki> I would think that getting this display running on a raspi would be "simple"?
2019-04-25T02:01:43 < aandrew> seems that way
2019-04-25T02:01:55 < Cracki> some board thread says 2lane is no issue, but 4lane is a problem because raspi gpu blobs
2019-04-25T02:02:48 < Cracki> and here's even someone doing it for their non-raspi https://community.nxp.com/thread/492265
2019-04-25T02:03:37 < Cracki> and his pics look like memory written badly or timings, and first reply says it's timings
2019-04-25T02:03:57 < Cracki> do you guys have anyone working on this? from a distance, this doesn't look impossible
2019-04-25T02:04:49 < aandrew> this isnt for me
2019-04-25T02:05:05 < aandrew> someone at freelancer reached out to me to try to get it filled
2019-04-25T02:05:11 < Cracki> ah!
2019-04-25T02:05:27 < aandrew> I wrote back to say not enough info, don't think I can do it within your budget, sorry
2019-04-25T02:05:29 < Cracki> wait... freecancer can go the other way too?
2019-04-25T02:05:32 < aandrew> yes
2019-04-25T02:05:35 < Cracki> curious
2019-04-25T02:06:08 < Cracki> yeah that's hairy. to know if it's doable, one would have to either have done it already, or spend hours researching it
2019-04-25T02:06:37 < Cracki> and that's not what they say they're paying for, and neither can they, because then they'd pay a million thirdworlders to try and predictably fail
2019-04-25T02:07:04 < aandrew> yep. I haven't been on that site in probably 9 months
2019-04-25T02:07:12 < Cracki> a low trust society can't maintain civilization, let alone push it forward
2019-04-25T02:07:37 < aandrew> blockchain peeps would argue with you on that
2019-04-25T02:07:57 < Cracki> stuff like that is doable in a company where boss knows you're capable, and they have the buffer to let you spend time on it regardless of outcome
2019-04-25T02:08:05 < aandrew> exactly
2019-04-25T02:08:05 < specing> we don't maintain civilisation with trust
2019-04-25T02:08:10 < specing> we maintain it with violence
2019-04-25T02:08:11 < aandrew> I mean it's clear the hardware will support it
2019-04-25T02:08:19 < Cracki> *claims to
2019-04-25T02:08:35 < Cracki> inb4 silicon "bug" that filters for device id and HCFs :>
2019-04-25T02:08:37 < aandrew> but unknown kernel, unknown dev environment and other constraints... this project requires a research phase and they don't seem to want to pay for that
2019-04-25T02:08:52 < aandrew> Cracki: ah I see you too have been fucked by vendors
2019-04-25T02:09:29 < Cracki> with every little bit of freelancing I did, and it hasn't been much, I always wanted to poke around and maybe even have results before I committed to anything
2019-04-25T02:09:40 < Cracki> actually I haven't, but I remember ftdi
2019-04-25T02:10:12 < Cracki> and it's probable that the worst outcome comes true
2019-04-25T02:11:32 < aandrew> it *could* be easy money, but is very likely not
2019-04-25T02:11:53 < Cracki> that ftp IP (198.13.102.98) is in AS40676 - Psychz Networks, US (registered Feb 26, 2008)
2019-04-25T02:12:06 < Cracki> why would a chinese company link to a US server
2019-04-25T02:12:35 < Cracki> nvm, data center
2019-04-25T02:14:21 <@englishman> i.mx6 has native HDMI but fails at it
2019-04-25T02:16:49 <@englishman> there's like 3 resolutions supported
2019-04-25T02:18:45 < Cracki> haha that's where I can find _something_. this is awful. https://pan.baidu.com/s/1slMn2gP#list/path=%2Fsharelink2080726538-285901256650870%2FM200S_Newton2_Plus%2F20160509%2F02_SW&parentPath=%2Fsharelink2080726538-285901256650870
2019-04-25T02:19:23 < aandrew> oh fuck it's android too. hard fuck no from me
2019-04-25T02:19:41 < aandrew> 5GB of shit
2019-04-25T02:19:43 < Cracki> the official ftp had android and normal linux sources
2019-04-25T02:20:02 < Cracki> dev guide and hw manual, I wonder how many pages https://pan.baidu.com/s/1slMn2gP#list/path=%2Fsharelink2080726538-285901256650870%2FM200S_Newton2_Plus%2F20160509%2F00_DOCS&parentPath=%2Fsharelink2080726538-285901256650870
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2019-04-25T03:13:50 <@englishman> $2500 to fuck with a random soc gets a hard no
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2019-04-25T03:58:57 < dongs> fgtdroid
2019-04-25T03:59:55 < dongs> what
2019-04-25T03:59:56 < dongs> 22:49 <
2019-04-25T03:59:57 < dongs> err
2019-04-25T04:00:04 < dongs>  < aandrew> https://freelancer.arrow.com/projects/android/need-support-mipi-lane-display
2019-04-25T04:00:11 < dongs> why did freecancer team up with arrow lmao
2019-04-25T04:07:05 < dongs> https://www.freelancer.com/projects/report-writing/BlockChain-expert-needed yesssss
2019-04-25T04:07:20 < dongs> i guess after losing all your $ on buttcoin, being a $2/hr buttchain expert is your only choice
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2019-04-25T04:58:57 < mawk> I hacked the game bitmask 
2019-04-25T04:59:08 < mawk> using .NET decompiler I looked at the unity game, which is C#
2019-04-25T04:59:19 < mawk> apparently they left the debug mode on or I don't know but I had full source code view
2019-04-25T04:59:32 < mawk> else the decompiler is very very smart and was able to get back the true variable names
2019-04-25T05:00:13 < mawk> so I just looked at how they stored game preference, they had a PlayerPrefs class which is just a key value store and a SecurePlayerPrefs which does AES encryption; but they only use the former
2019-04-25T05:00:29 < mawk> they were more concerned with getting the ads code right than with getting the game like it's supposed to be
2019-04-25T05:07:47 < bitmask> maybe debug mode is it, I just never thought you'd be able to get variable names back
2019-04-25T05:08:22 < bitmask> I only tried decompiling one thing a long time ago, it was just assembly that wasn't worth trying to reverse engineer
2019-04-25T05:08:33 < bitmask> I thought that was the best it would be
2019-04-25T05:20:24 < mawk> now I can feel I haven't lost my money
2019-04-25T05:20:37 < mawk> I paid I think 2€ to disable ads in the game, but it just disable mandatory ads
2019-04-25T05:20:58 < mawk> but the thing is if you want to play as much as you want or earn good coins and stuff you have to watch their stupid facultative ads
2019-04-25T05:21:23 < mawk> and anyway I have an adblocker, so I wanted a gaming experience up to the price I paid
2019-04-25T05:21:29 < mawk> and my super pro hacker skills made that happen
2019-04-25T05:21:48 < mawk> but since I gave me infinite money it feels a bit like cheating, now that I unlocked everything I may downgrade it a bit
2019-04-25T05:21:55 <@englishman> Welcome Back
2019-04-25T05:21:55 <@englishman> Sign in with your Arrow credentials
2019-04-25T05:21:59 <@englishman> no thx
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2019-04-25T06:49:01 < jadew`> arrow bought them?
2019-04-25T06:49:25 < jadew`> of all the freelancing sites I've looked at, that one is the worst
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2019-04-25T06:50:01 < jadew`> and somehow the people behind it had enough money to kill all the small ones that were decent years ago
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2019-04-25T06:50:52 < jadew`> (they bought and shut them down)
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2019-04-25T10:35:13 < dongs> how does a nigga blink some leds on rageberry pi
2019-04-25T10:35:24 < dongs> like should i go full retard and add a led driver
2019-04-25T10:35:25 < dongs> or just gpio
2019-04-25T10:35:53 < dongs> or is that waht i2c port expanders are for
2019-04-25T10:40:18 < ds2> is there anything in /sys/class/leds?
2019-04-25T10:41:50 < dongs> no i mean, if i wanted to add some leds to stuff
2019-04-25T10:42:00 < dongs> i dont think any of the led shit on actual rageberry is controllable
2019-04-25T10:42:05 < dongs> there's just power and disk access led
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2019-04-25T10:47:43 < ds2> you have a few ways to go - proper is adding a drive (probally just a DT change)
2019-04-25T10:48:02 < ds2> if you have it on a GPIO, you can toggle the GPIO in /sys/class/gpio
2019-04-25T10:48:11 < ds2> if it is on i2c, you can use the i2ctools 
2019-04-25T10:48:33 < ds2> these last 2 are hacks but will work...just won't be very fast (i.e. no toggling it at 1MHz :D)
2019-04-25T10:48:57 < ds2> disk access may be SW controllable
2019-04-25T10:51:23 < ds2> check in /sys/class/leds, if there is anything there...it is likely to be controllable.. on many platforms, disk IO is a trigger that can be attached to a LED
2019-04-25T10:52:05 < dongs> hah, apparently they are
2019-04-25T10:52:08 < dongs> (lol
2019-04-25T10:52:28 < dongs> green_led_reset_trigger = "mmc0"
2019-04-25T10:52:28 < dongs> red_led_reset_trigger = "input"
2019-04-25T10:52:33 < dongs> fucking lunix
2019-04-25T10:58:21 < ds2> =)
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2019-04-25T11:11:33 < Steffann> TokenBrokerCookies.exe .. who makes up those names at microsoft
2019-04-25T11:12:20 -!- Steffann is now known as Steffanx
2019-04-25T11:17:57 < kakimir> :]
2019-04-25T11:18:29 < kakimir> usually program with suspisious and weird names are actually some windows services
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2019-04-25T11:42:23 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-04-25T11:54:48 < dongs> does LTE modem need GPS for something
2019-04-25T11:55:00 < dongs> or is it that most m2m LTE shits have a GPS connection inside them for some reason
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2019-04-25T12:13:02 < jpa-> maybe it's just because many of the LTE chipsets (like hisilicon V711) have GPS built-in
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2019-04-25T12:17:07 < dongs> yash but weaht do you use it for
2019-04-25T12:17:15 < dongs> is it accessible as nmea or something over AT commands?
2019-04-25T12:17:26 < dongs> like what does a nigga do to make use of it
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2019-04-25T12:39:49 < zyp> like AT+CGPSOUT?
2019-04-25T12:40:16 < zyp> ref. https://m2msupport.net/m2msupport/atcgpsout-gps-nmea-data-output-control/
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2019-04-25T14:02:43 < dongs> so does it just spew nmea over serial + intermixed with wahtever LTE shit?
2019-04-25T14:03:07 < dongs> anyway
2019-04-25T14:03:09 < dongs> looks ok
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2019-04-25T14:19:16 <@englishman> what's an m2m?
2019-04-25T14:19:24 < jpa-> machine to machine
2019-04-25T14:20:35 < zyp> dongs, I guess it depends on the particular module
2019-04-25T14:22:02 < zyp> I don't remember exactly what the stuff I worked on did, but I guess the gps data had its own CAIF channel separate from the AT stuff
2019-04-25T14:22:44 < zyp> of course, if you have a single uart for everything, then I guess there's no option but to interleave AT and gps and everything on it
2019-04-25T14:26:51 <@englishman> is it a term just used for cellular or other radios as well?
2019-04-25T14:27:27 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_to_machine
2019-04-25T14:28:09 <@englishman> pretty broad scope then
2019-04-25T14:28:12 < zyp> I think it's mostly a buzzword without much meaning
2019-04-25T14:28:34 <@englishman> thx
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2019-04-25T15:01:08 < Thorn> https://st-videos.s3.amazonaws.com/VD_EW2019_STM8_alive_and_kicking_0219_SB.mp4
2019-04-25T15:02:24 < zyp> but why
2019-04-25T15:03:27 < Thorn> 5 billion units shipped
2019-04-25T15:04:55 < zyp> but why would you design anything for stm8 today?
2019-04-25T15:05:26 < Thorn> 5V -> drive mosfets directly
2019-04-25T15:06:31 < Thorn> timers are similar to stm32 so pwm is not a problem
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2019-04-25T15:32:38 < Cracki> cute, three stm8 on one board
2019-04-25T15:39:00 < dongs> zyp, looks like quacktel shit we're using just makes like 4 USBserial shits
2019-04-25T15:39:03 < dongs> and GPS is one of htem
2019-04-25T15:39:10 < dongs> and AT is another, and other shit for ?? 
2019-04-25T15:39:24 < dongs> so yeah, GPS is just separate channel that can be opened and read as normal serial port.
2019-04-25T15:41:03 < zyp> yes, that sounds reasonable
2019-04-25T16:00:43 < dongs> jesus christ.
2019-04-25T16:00:52 < dongs> im having the msot retarded discussion
2019-04-25T16:00:56 < dongs> its almost like inm getting trolled
2019-04-25T16:04:19 < dongs> this guy is trying to convince me that using GPS and LTE at same time will be "slow" because GPS USB reads are "blocking"
2019-04-25T16:04:39 < dongs> and "there's one hardware"
2019-04-25T16:04:42 < dongs> (wahtever the fuck that means)
2019-04-25T16:07:02 < veverak> wat
2019-04-25T16:07:18 < qyx_> quacktel lol
2019-04-25T16:07:34 < qyx_> why am I degenerated
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2019-04-25T16:15:17 < aandrew> wow nice
2019-04-25T16:16:07 < aandrew> dongs: you should immediately tell him "no no no, the USB 2.0 spec has a specific annex detailing how USB and LTE endpoints can be multiplexed without delay by taking advantage of the USB microframes
2019-04-25T16:16:11 < aandrew> fight bullshit with bullshit
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2019-04-25T16:28:41 < Steffanx> Wlcm
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2019-04-25T16:38:05 < zyp> haha
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2019-04-25T18:05:56 <@englishman> zyp: stm8 is fucking awesome
2019-04-25T18:06:02 <@englishman> and clearly here to stay
2019-04-25T18:07:03 <@englishman> it beats the shit out of msp430 which is 10x price
2019-04-25T18:07:27 <@englishman> it's not crippled by being 8051 and not burdened by expensive arm licensing
2019-04-25T18:17:27 < zyp> dude, being «better than msp430» is not a benchmark for good
2019-04-25T18:18:43 < MrMobius> englishman, how is it better?
2019-04-25T18:20:04 < MrMobius> than msp430
2019-04-25T18:20:54 < specing> I don't think the ARM licensing is expensive
2019-04-25T18:21:21 < specing> the microcontrollers are just big wrt die area, and you get excellent tooling (gcc) for them
2019-04-25T18:22:48 < zyp> when I buy a microcontroller, I don't really give a fuck about how the vendor licenced the cpu
2019-04-25T18:23:54 < MrMobius> also 10x the price???
2019-04-25T18:25:08 < specing> MrMobius: software development costs so you can have great tooling for it
2019-04-25T18:28:40 < MrMobius> ah
2019-04-25T18:29:32 < MrMobius> looking at the instruction set its probably a lot slower mhz for mhz than msp430
2019-04-25T18:29:37 < MrMobius> maybe not what englishman meant though
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2019-04-25T18:45:33 < zyp> I know a guy that does compiler development and stuff, according to him the msp430 architecture is terrible and hard to compile efficient code for
2019-04-25T18:52:53 < aandrew> dude, being «better than msp430» is not a benchmark for good
2019-04-25T18:52:55 < aandrew> ^^ truth
2019-04-25T18:54:01 < aandrew> PIC has (had?) the same issue, just poor arch for C, so they crapped up the entire architecture with PIC18+
2019-04-25T18:54:40 < MrMobius> ive been writing msp430 assembly for a few months for one project and its pretty fun
2019-04-25T18:54:51 < MrMobius> 12 general purpose registers. no accumulator nonsense
2019-04-25T18:55:01 < MrMobius> never done compiler writing though
2019-04-25T18:55:33 < MrMobius> it would be interesting to know what he thinks is terrible
2019-04-25T18:56:03 < malinus> price and performance? I guess it's all good if you just need a LED on/off
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2019-04-25T19:03:13 < MrMobius> also no page banking on msp430 or any of this other horrifying stuff im reading about pic16
2019-04-25T19:12:47 < Steffanx> Being better than pic16 is not a benchmark for good.
2019-04-25T19:12:52 < Steffanx> Deja vu
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2019-04-25T19:16:37 < Steffanx> Why assembly MrMobius? For fun?
2019-04-25T19:17:02 <@englishman> >excellent tooling
2019-04-25T19:17:05 <@englishman> >gcc
2019-04-25T19:17:38 <@englishman> zyp: neither do I, but it factors into the price
2019-04-25T19:18:27 <@englishman> writing assembly is not something I'm interested in doing at all.
2019-04-25T19:18:59 <@englishman> I'm not a compiler
2019-04-25T19:19:27 < srk> >ghc & gcc
2019-04-25T19:21:55 < MrMobius> Steffanx, englishman, yes for fun
2019-04-25T19:22:04 < MrMobius> fair enough
2019-04-25T19:22:22 < MrMobius> I just call BS on the arch not being good for C or there not being good C comppilers for it
2019-04-25T19:23:20 < specing> englishman: gcc is excellent
2019-04-25T19:23:37 < specing> not just excellent, the best
2019-04-25T19:23:56 <@englishman> out of all the open source compilers maybe
2019-04-25T19:24:10 < specing> englishman: out ot _all_ compilers
2019-04-25T19:24:41 <@englishman> what makes you say that
2019-04-25T19:25:43 < specing> englishman: name me a compiler other than gcc that supports Ada 2012
2019-04-25T19:26:00 <@englishman> sounds like something only gcc users care about
2019-04-25T19:27:06 < specing> englishman: do you think I am developing for stm32 in C?
2019-04-25T19:27:12 <@englishman> I'd hope so
2019-04-25T19:27:18 < specing> I'm not, C sucks
2019-04-25T19:27:22 <@englishman> rip
2019-04-25T19:27:25 < specing> I develop in Ada 2012
2019-04-25T19:27:33 <@englishman> sorry to hear that
2019-04-25T19:28:11 < specing> why? Ada is vastly superior
2019-04-25T19:28:21 <@englishman> ok
2019-04-25T19:28:41 <@englishman> back to the same argument
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2019-04-25T19:31:38 < fenugrec> ooh, a language argument that isn't c vs c++ ? novel!
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2019-04-25T19:38:24 < aandrew> I am surprised that msp430 is supported by gcc
2019-04-25T19:38:29 < aandrew> sounds like something sdcc should be supporting
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2019-04-25T19:46:39 < MrMobius> aandrew, apples and oranges. why are you stuck on this?
2019-04-25T19:48:35 < MrMobius> sdcc supports a bunch of 8 bitters. everything is 16 bit orthoganal on msp430
2019-04-25T19:49:19 <@englishman> https://github.com/IamRifki/NESticle/tree/master/Source
2019-04-25T19:50:38 < aandrew> MrMobius: ah, fair point
2019-04-25T19:50:45 < aandrew> not stuck on it at all, just reading the chat
2019-04-25T19:51:34 <@englishman> the non-interrupt-safe hardware multiplier is 32bit on some chips!
2019-04-25T19:54:57 < bitmask> aliexpress is annoying... selling connectors as gold colored and silver colored.  the gold is brass and the silver is nickel plated copper, they are trying to trick you
2019-04-25T19:55:37 < jadew`> the gold is not brass
2019-04-25T19:55:51 < bitmask> ?
2019-04-25T19:56:10 < jadew`> it's something else that peals off and leaves a mess
2019-04-25T19:56:49 < bitmask> ok then
2019-04-25T19:56:59 < jadew`> the body is brass tho
2019-04-25T19:57:15 < jadew`> but that's normal
2019-04-25T19:57:51 < bitmask> well my point is that the silver one is better than the gold one, isnt nickel plated copper preferred? 
2019-04-25T19:58:37 < jadew`> it is preferred to the goldish garbage
2019-04-25T19:58:56 < bitmask> if I had a quick glance id assume silver was alu and gold was copper but thats my point, its the other way around
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2019-04-25T20:25:45 < kakimir> it's chinesium coating
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2019-04-25T21:42:24 < kakimir> hello cubes
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2019-04-25T21:49:13 < Steffanx> That makes me think of Ronald Yenkees. "Hello Youtubes". kakimir
2019-04-25T21:49:29 < Steffanx> Jenkees*
2019-04-25T21:49:57 < invzim> zyp: ?
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2019-04-25T21:50:34 < Steffanx> so here so music for you kakimir https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smE-uIljiGo
2019-04-25T21:54:47 < Thorn> how many mA does an average smartphone backlight consume?
2019-04-25T21:55:41 < jpa-> Thorn: i think ~0.2 watts
2019-04-25T21:56:30 < Thorn> so like 70mA @ 3V?
2019-04-25T21:56:57 < jpa-> sure, if that's the voltage it runs at
2019-04-25T21:57:20 < jpa-> but of course it will vary by screen size, brightness setting and phone model
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2019-04-25T22:02:39 < flyhi_> I recently purchased a brand new STM32F030F4P6 Minimal Dev Board, and an external ST Link V2 to program it with. However - no matter what I try, the ST-LINK Utility software insists there is no target connected.
2019-04-25T22:02:46 < flyhi_> jpa-: helped me notice some interesting behavior on some of the pins. There appears to be a steady 0.74v across GND and NRST, and 3.3v across GND and VDD when not connected to the ST Link. But when the ST Link is connected, VDD jumps to 4.4v. GND and NRST stay at 0.74v.  Does anyone have any ideas about what might be going on here?
2019-04-25T22:06:13 < Thorn> flyhi_: did you connect a 5V output form your st-link to the target board?
2019-04-25T22:06:30 < Thorn> that would likely fry the stm32
2019-04-25T22:07:12 < flyhi_> Not according to the ST Link pinout diagram. The bottom two pins are listed as 5.0v, and I triple-checked to make sure I never touched them.
2019-04-25T22:11:35 < Thorn> jpa-: ok thx
2019-04-25T22:23:49 < zyp> invzim, sup?
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2019-04-25T22:26:31 < zyp> englishman, gcc doesn't have to be the best compiler ever for it to be a useful benchmark
2019-04-25T22:27:36 < zyp> I just figure that architectures that aren't *even* supported by gcc are fairly worthless
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2019-04-25T22:28:37 < invzim> CN22 pains..
2019-04-25T22:28:48 < zyp> oh?
2019-04-25T22:28:51 < invzim> went to two po's and the claimed they don't make the stickers anymore, handed me a CN23 instead
2019-04-25T22:28:55 < invzim> that's not going to happen..
2019-04-25T22:29:08 < zyp> the fuck you need the stickers for?
2019-04-25T22:29:08 < invzim> you have what's required handy to diy?
2019-04-25T22:29:40 < zyp> yeah, my webstore prints complete labels including CN22
2019-04-25T22:30:18 < invzim> got an example handy?
2019-04-25T22:30:28 < invzim> pulling hair trying to make a template for my p-touch label printer
2019-04-25T22:30:58 < zyp> hang on, I'm digging out the template files from my store system
2019-04-25T22:31:18 < Thorn> so how stupid would it be to power my 50 mA backlight with this circuit? https://cdn.instructables.com/FL9/YN1I/HEXSGAHU/FL9YN1IHEXSGAHU.LARGE.jpg (I want brightness to stay constant with changing battery voltage)
2019-04-25T22:31:38 < Thorn> (ignore values on the schematics)
2019-04-25T22:32:33 < zyp> invzim, https://paste.jvnv.net/view/ZZVaA https://paste.jvnv.net/view/RwK4D
2019-04-25T22:34:02 < zyp> with that CSS they'll print nicely on 150x102mm labels directly from chrome
2019-04-25T22:35:06 < zyp> hmm, when I think about it I think I've got a standalone html file too somewhere
2019-04-25T22:35:23 < invzim> thanks, never had issues with it?
2019-04-25T22:38:07 < zyp> here you go: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/tZ1hH
2019-04-25T22:38:31 < zyp> and no, never a problem, sent hundreds of packages with that template
2019-04-25T22:38:46 < invzim> hehe
2019-04-25T22:38:48 < invzim> good one :)
2019-04-25T22:39:30 < zyp> hmm, last template has the wrong box in the CN22 checked
2019-04-25T22:40:30 < zyp> by the way, what label printer do you have?
2019-04-25T22:40:55 < invzim> brother ql-something
2019-04-25T22:40:57 < zyp> before I made this template, I used the old CN22 .pdf from Posten
2019-04-25T22:40:58 < invzim> thermal
2019-04-25T22:41:13 < zyp> 62mm or 102mm?
2019-04-25T22:41:42 < invzim> https://www.brother.co.uk/labelling/ql-printers/ql570
2019-04-25T22:41:50 < zyp> ah, right
2019-04-25T22:42:09 < invzim> prefer DHL these days, sooo much easier
2019-04-25T22:42:17 < zyp> I had the ql-700 before, the template won't fit very well on 62mm tape
2019-04-25T22:44:24 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ZDxEu.pdf <- you can use this shit
2019-04-25T22:44:51 < zyp> I filled it out and cropped it and stored it as a standard template
2019-04-25T22:44:56 < invzim> meh, would be a pita - don't have adhesive stuff for my laserprinter
2019-04-25T22:44:58 < zyp> and just printed as many as I needed
2019-04-25T22:45:10 < zyp> I didn't argue that
2019-04-25T22:45:23 < zyp> just crop it before printing, then it'd fit nicely on a 62mm wide label
2019-04-25T22:45:40 < zyp> how much does DHL charge you, by the way?
2019-04-25T22:46:10 < zyp> last I checked DHL, cheapest shipping they'd give me was $169
2019-04-25T22:46:15 < invzim> stupid question, but which software would you use to crop/just print out the actual label on the brother?
2019-04-25T22:46:23 < zyp> which is like over three times a typical order value
2019-04-25T22:46:43 < zyp> just a standard pdf reader?
2019-04-25T22:46:58 < zyp> I'm on macos, so I'd use preview.app, dunno what's good on other operating systems
2019-04-25T22:47:51 < invzim> dhl charges about 300NOK for the US, 250 for europe
2019-04-25T22:48:18 < zyp> huh, that's not too bad, dunno why I didn't get that price
2019-04-25T22:48:25 < zyp> still not worth it for most stuff I send
2019-04-25T22:48:54 < invzim> started with fedex, which was more expensive, then gave DHL a call
2019-04-25T22:49:07 < invzim> now fedex called me back and will give me updated pricing
2019-04-25T22:49:15 < zyp> I think on average I pay 20NOK in postage per shipment :p
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2019-04-25T22:49:46 < invzim> yup, it's very good for untracked - but I charge a lot for my stuff, so people want tracking :)
2019-04-25T22:49:47 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2019-04-25T22:50:03 < invzim> or, I charge.. :)
2019-04-25T22:50:49 < zyp> I charge a lot for my stuff too, compared to what it costs to make, so whenever anything goes missing I just send a free replacement :p
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2019-04-25T23:18:48 < invzim> maaahn, brothers software suck
2019-04-25T23:18:56 < invzim> zyp: this should fly no? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TTMtlppCyH4VL9-_MPXQpGJPCqU8ajZv/view
2019-04-25T23:20:38 < zyp> probably
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2019-04-25T23:29:29 < Steffanx> it should tick gift by default
2019-04-25T23:29:52 < invzim> I actually would like to do that
2019-04-25T23:30:17 < zyp> better not to abuse it
2019-04-25T23:30:34 < invzim> but I'm sending through my company, and not taking any chance on consequences 
2019-04-25T23:30:40 < zyp> also, does the gift checkbox even fool customs agencies anymore?
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2019-04-25T23:44:50 < Steffanx> Probably not
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2019-04-25T23:52:56 < flyhi_> Thorn: Thanks for your help. I've decided the ST Link has probably fried the STM32 with the 4.4v coming over the 3.3v pin. I'm going to try again with a new board, and a different ST Link. Do I have to connect the ST Link 3.3v pin to the STM32? Or can I just leave that disconnected next time?
2019-04-25T23:54:02 < Thorn> if it's a real buffered st-link you need to connect the Vt *input* on the st-link to the Vdd of your stm32 target
2019-04-25T23:56:57 < Thorn> Vtref (pin 1 on the 20-pin connector)
2019-04-25T23:57:21 < Thorn> if your target board is already powered, do not connect anything else
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2019-04-25T23:58:30 < Thorn> anything that says 3.3V or especially 5V that is
--- Day changed Fri Apr 26 2019
2019-04-26T00:10:56 < Cracki> might also be labeled "Vapp". really just sensing voltage.
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2019-04-26T00:26:12 < flyhi_> Thorn: I measured 4.4v with the ST Link being the sole power supply to the STM32
2019-04-26T00:27:06 < flyhi_> i.e. nothing else connected, just the chip and the ST Link
2019-04-26T00:40:34 < rajkosto> does the stm32 work ?
2019-04-26T00:40:42 < rajkosto> if you power it does nrst read 3.3v ?
2019-04-26T00:40:53 < rajkosto> nothing connected
2019-04-26T00:50:47 < flyhi_> NRST reads 0.74v when the STM32 is powered
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2019-04-26T01:09:24 < karlp> buy the nucleo foryour target, skip this train wreck.
2019-04-26T01:13:20 < mawk> show wiring again flyhi_ 
2019-04-26T01:13:41 < mawk> also you said 4.4V at Vdd, maybe it's fried
2019-04-26T01:13:57 < mawk> throw that in the garbage bin and do what karlp said
2019-04-26T01:14:57 < karlp> once you knkow what you're doig, try and save 30c buying garbage instead.
2019-04-26T01:17:17 < mawk> also flyhi_ you power first your target board, then you connect the stlink
2019-04-26T01:17:18 < Thorn> 4.4V sounds like 5V applied + stm32 fried and sinking a lot of current
2019-04-26T01:17:21 < mawk> when the board is self powered
2019-04-26T01:17:23 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-26T01:19:23 < flyhi_> mawk: From the ST Link to the STM32: 3.3v to 3.3v, GND to GND, SWCLK to the board-labeled CLK, SWDIO to the board-labeled DIO
2019-04-26T01:20:04 < mawk> your board labels are odd
2019-04-26T01:20:07 < mawk> but ok yeah
2019-04-26T01:20:12 < mawk> it's a ripoff stlink I guess ?
2019-04-26T01:20:21 < flyhi_> It is a clone, but highly rated on Amazon
2019-04-26T01:20:27 < mawk> can I see it ?=
2019-04-26T01:20:41 < mawk> your board is powered on its own also ?
2019-04-26T01:20:48 < flyhi_> https://www.amazon.com/Aideepen-ST-Link-Programming-Emulator-Downloader/dp/B01J7N3RE6/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=st+link&qid=1556230838&s=gateway&sr=8-3
2019-04-26T01:20:49 < mawk> the 3.3V on the stlink is not an ouptut it's an input as Cracki said
2019-04-26T01:20:53 < mawk> it's to detect the core voltage
2019-04-26T01:21:12 < Cracki> well, on the stlink v2 clones I got off ebay, the "3.3v" is actually an output
2019-04-26T01:21:18 < mawk> ah ok
2019-04-26T01:21:19 < Cracki> if it's an input, it shouldn't be labeled with a specific value
2019-04-26T01:21:23 < mawk> I never got a clone
2019-04-26T01:21:24 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-26T01:21:30 < Cracki> I never got an original :>
2019-04-26T01:21:33 < mawk> lol
2019-04-26T01:21:34 < Cracki> except for the disco board
2019-04-26T01:22:03 < Thorn> >"the 5V power output" from that page
2019-04-26T01:22:06 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-26T01:22:07 < Cracki> found a blog post where they name the SWO pin, so you can run a bodge wire on those clones, because they don't have that broken out
2019-04-26T01:22:39 < Cracki> "swo pin" being some rx1/rx2/... of the chip
2019-04-26T01:22:42 < flyhi_> For what it's worth, I did try powering the board with its onboard 3.3v regulator as well. The reset pin stays at 0.74v, but VDD is a nice steady clean 3.3v
2019-04-26T01:22:48 < Cracki> it's fucked
2019-04-26T01:22:58 < Cracki> how do you determine reset pin voltage
2019-04-26T01:23:01 < Thorn> flyhi_: you should've measured what it's actually outputting before using it to power your board
2019-04-26T01:23:13 < mawk> reset at 0.74V is fine it just means the board is held to reset
2019-04-26T01:23:26 < Cracki> what holds it there tho
2019-04-26T01:23:30 < mawk> it's not like an indication of it being friedf
2019-04-26T01:23:34 < Thorn> amazon ratings do not override laws of physics lol
2019-04-26T01:23:39 < flyhi_> Multimeter across GND and NRST shows 0.74
2019-04-26T01:23:43 < Cracki> and 0.74 volts sounds like almost inside the undefined voltage band
2019-04-26T01:23:56 < mawk> well with my nucleo board if I power it manually at 5V without using the stlink the board is held to reset
2019-04-26T01:24:00 < mawk> it could be any variant of this
2019-04-26T01:24:17 < mawk> is held to reset by the stlink
2019-04-26T01:24:55 < mawk> ah but you didn't connect NRST flyhi_ 
2019-04-26T01:25:01 < mawk> well just connect GND, SWDIO, SWCLK
2019-04-26T01:25:07 < mawk> and power board independantly
2019-04-26T01:25:13 < mawk> then power stlink
2019-04-26T01:25:16 < Cracki> according to this, 0.74 volts is quite marginal https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/logic-levels/33-v-cmos-logic-levels
2019-04-26T01:25:16 < mawk> everything will be fine
2019-04-26T01:25:39 < Cracki> but maybe stm32 have different levels
2019-04-26T01:26:03 < flyhi_> mawk: I did try powering it independently with only the GND, SWDIO, SWCLK connected. ST Link Utility insisted that no target was present.
2019-04-26T01:26:14 < Cracki> uh
2019-04-26T01:26:20 < mawk> do you have BOOT0/BOOT1 pins exposed on the board flyhi_ ?
2019-04-26T01:26:32 < Cracki> when i do that (just gnd, clk, io) it hasn't complained yet
2019-04-26T01:26:36 < flyhi_> I do, there's a jumper to select between GND and VDD
2019-04-26T01:26:44 < Cracki> _maybe_ those pins don't react properly
2019-04-26T01:26:47 < mawk> ok then try putting BOOT0 to 1 to get into ST bootloader mode
2019-04-26T01:26:49 < mawk> and try again
2019-04-26T01:27:17 < Cracki> is this about a bluepill or something else with a flash bl on it, or a blank chip?
2019-04-26T01:27:37 < mawk> he said it's a "minimal dev board" so some kind of blue pill variant I guess
2019-04-26T01:28:05 < Cracki> then it might or might not come with a flash bl, which will probably interfere with SWD pins
2019-04-26T01:28:19 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-26T01:28:26 < flyhi_> This is my specific board: https://www.ebay.com/itm/STM32F030F4P6-CORTEX-M0-ARM-32-Bit-48-MHz-Core-Mini-System-Development-Board-USB/223022995483?epid=623312214&hash=item33ed34d81b:g:YKgAAOSw0iFbJ-Ot
2019-04-26T01:28:37 < Cracki> last time I fucked around with stm32duino, that was the case. had to boot it with the right bits so it didn't run the flash bl
2019-04-26T01:28:51 < Cracki> I doubt that one has a flash bl on it already
2019-04-26T01:28:52 < karlp> you paid $5 for it! plus a stlink clone!
2019-04-26T01:28:54  * karlp laughs
2019-04-26T01:29:45 < mawk> buy this flyhi_ https://fr.rs-online.com/web/p/kits-de-developpement-pour-processeurs-et-microcontroleurs/1438574/
2019-04-26T01:29:51 < mawk> it has integrated stlink, everything you need
2019-04-26T01:29:55 < mawk> and it's non-broken
2019-04-26T01:30:30 < mawk> yeah $5 for chinese shit board is expensive, I got 6 for that price
2019-04-26T01:31:01 < Cracki> where do you get 6 boards for 5 bucks?
2019-04-26T01:31:06 < Cracki> (boards with stuff on them)
2019-04-26T01:31:13 < karlp> mawk: but but but, that's a much mor epowerful cpu!
2019-04-26T01:31:14 < mawk> on ali
2019-04-26T01:31:20 < mawk> :(
2019-04-26T01:31:25  * karlp grins
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2019-04-26T01:31:35 < Cracki> what stm32 on those?
2019-04-26T01:31:48 < mawk> mine ? L432KC
2019-04-26T01:31:52 < mawk> it's a cortex M4F
2019-04-26T01:31:54 < Cracki> I doubt it could have been f103 because the cheapest I can find is around 1.60 or something
2019-04-26T01:32:00 < mawk> ah for ali ? it's f103 yes
2019-04-26T01:32:01 < Cracki> hm, L432kc you say...
2019-04-26T01:32:16 < mawk> no the L432KC is my RS link, the nucleo
2019-04-26T01:32:24 < Cracki> yes yes
2019-04-26T01:32:29 <@englishman> stm32f072 nucleo is half the price of an ftdi UART cable
2019-04-26T01:32:30 <@englishman> lol
2019-04-26T01:33:31 < flyhi_> Now, you guys might find me ignorant, but I'm new to hardware engineering and I've been tasked with building a product around this microcontroller. I tried to get as bare of a board as I could to confirm that my schematic would work. Am I being irrational in fearing that the Nucleo would be too abstract?
2019-04-26T01:33:52 < mawk> what do you mean by abstract ?
2019-04-26T01:34:04 < mawk> the nucleo-32 I linked you is the same form-factor, just it has integrated programmer
2019-04-26T01:34:18 <@englishman> nucleos are about as bare of a board you can get, it's the discovery boards that usually come with stuff
2019-04-26T01:34:20 < mawk> and it's a much newer cpu with cool peripherals
2019-04-26T01:34:33 < mawk> but on the board itself it's very barebones yes
2019-04-26T01:34:37 < Cracki> expect to make a few iterations. even experienced ones rarely get it in one iteration.
2019-04-26T01:34:50 < Cracki> nucleo gets you going with the programming
2019-04-26T01:35:07 < mawk> a child could program the nucleo with its drag&drop and web IDE thing
2019-04-26T01:35:10 < Cracki> and you can copy, strip down, or copy what parts you want from the schematic
2019-04-26T01:35:40 < Cracki> for your custom hw, you basically want to go at it with an stlink or jlink or something, through SWD
2019-04-26T01:36:03 < Cracki> I'm not sure "drag&drop and web IDE thing" can support singlestepping
2019-04-26T01:37:01 < karlp> flyhi_: well, do you have the schematic for  your junk board you bought?
2019-04-26T01:37:05 < Cracki> for custom hw, you might or might not want to have a debugger right on the same board as the target. nucleos and disco boards have stm32f1 or something on them to be stlink debuggers
2019-04-26T01:37:07 < karlp> because what would you be confirming without it?
2019-04-26T01:38:35 < Cracki> the bareness of that board you bought isn't an issue. it just got fucked. get another one maybe, or a different one, or a bunch :>
2019-04-26T01:39:40 < flyhi_> Cracki: I did want to physically prototype having an external debugger, to cut down on production costs on the final boards.
2019-04-26T01:40:15 < Cracki> then you have the option of using pogopins against unpopulated pin headers, or tagconnect, or populated pin headers, ...
2019-04-26T01:40:16 < karlp> have you read the app notes on desingning hardware from st?
2019-04-26T01:40:20 < karlp> they say what you need to do.
2019-04-26T01:40:27 < flyhi_> karlp: I do have the schematic for the junk board, lol
2019-04-26T01:40:42 < karlp> so what exactly do you want from us now then?
2019-04-26T01:40:51 < Cracki> if you aim for _really_ large production, you can also get ST to program a few thousand themselves, and you only have to assemble your hw
2019-04-26T01:42:12 < catphish> mawk: is there actually an easy way to program an stm32? because i found it insanely confusing to get started
2019-04-26T01:42:24 < mawk> yes catphish with the nucleo boards it's very easy
2019-04-26T01:42:26 < Cracki> _the_ debug connection is SWD. cheapest options would be stlink china clone, or the stlink part of a discoboard (I think nucleos can do that too)... more powerful options would be jlink/jtrace devices
2019-04-26T01:42:36 < Cracki> they can do swd but also tracing
2019-04-26T01:42:40 < mawk> the stlink will expose as an usb stick, you just copy paste the firmware into it
2019-04-26T01:42:55 < catphish> mawk: by program i mean develop / compile raher than actually "program"
2019-04-26T01:42:55 < Cracki> truestudio with stlink clone? works fine for me
2019-04-26T01:43:00 < Cracki> rather painless even
2019-04-26T01:43:10 < mawk> ah, well there's the online mbed IDE catphish 
2019-04-26T01:43:16 < mawk> that goes on par with that drag&drop thing
2019-04-26T01:43:30 < Cracki> screw drag and drop
2019-04-26T01:43:31 < mawk> you create an ST account, you select your board, and you start up on a blinky example
2019-04-26T01:43:32 < mawk> it's C++
2019-04-26T01:43:36 < catphish> mawk: wow, i had no idea you could program the nucleo using the filesyetem
2019-04-26T01:43:59 < karlp> catphish: read the docs?
2019-04-26T01:44:11 < karlp> catphish: it's like, headline featrues in the user guide?
2019-04-26T01:44:13 < Cracki> can this "mbed ide" even debug the target? are they using webUSB yet?
2019-04-26T01:44:35 < catphish> karlp: lol fair enough, i use "st-flash write program.bin 0x8000000" which is super easy
2019-04-26T01:44:46 < Cracki> searching "mbed debug" gives me results on mbed os, which I assume can be used without that web ide
2019-04-26T01:44:59 < catphish> but i've always found it needlessly complicated to get to the stage where i actually have a binary
2019-04-26T01:45:01 < mawk> mbed os is just their rtos/standard lib they link Cracki 
2019-04-26T01:45:15 < mawk> but you can use that without the online IDE yeah
2019-04-26T01:45:24 < mawk> even though it's not extremely user friendly then
2019-04-26T01:45:34 < Cracki> I would still like to know if "web ide" means it craps out an elf, or if it can singlestep and stuff
2019-04-26T01:45:35 < catphish> ended up making my own makefile using arm's gcc and stmcube headers
2019-04-26T01:45:45 < catphish> web ide sounds cool though
2019-04-26T01:45:49 < mawk> you don't have singlestep no I fear
2019-04-26T01:46:01 < mawk> not in the web browser at least
2019-04-26T01:46:09 < Cracki> because I remember in 2016 a colleague fucked around with mbed and I never took too close a look at it.
2019-04-26T01:46:12 < mawk> even though that could be done with a chrome extension I guess
2019-04-26T01:46:25 < Cracki> yay so web ide means it's shit
2019-04-26T01:46:29 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-26T01:46:30 < catphish> but even then i have some assembly code that i have to copypaste into all my apps that i dont really understand
2019-04-26T01:46:33 < Cracki> good, off the table
2019-04-26T01:46:43 < karlp> there's absolutely no reason to use the web ide if you don't like.
2019-04-26T01:46:50 < karlp> that's not been required for years and years now.
2019-04-26T01:46:51 < mawk> why didn't you keep the cube makefile catphish ?
2019-04-26T01:46:58 < mawk> even though makefiles isn't that complicated
2019-04-26T01:47:10 < catphish> i don't have a "cube makefile"
2019-04-26T01:47:14 < mawk> it's more the linker script and startup assembly code that you'd have to read the reference manual for some time to invent
2019-04-26T01:47:23 < mawk> well you set up cubemx to output a makefile, and it does
2019-04-26T01:47:24 < Cracki> yeh, nothing wrong with cube generated make/project files. gets you going.
2019-04-26T01:48:00 < mawk> ah so you don't know about cubeMX maybe then catphish 
2019-04-26T01:48:06 < catphish> oh yeah, you can generate a project can't you, that's likely very close to what i'm using
2019-04-26T01:48:08 < Cracki> uhhh "mbed studio" appears to be yet another eclipse + stuff distribution
2019-04-26T01:48:09 < mawk> it's confusing it's almost the same name
2019-04-26T01:48:14 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-26T01:48:20 < Cracki> so they have an offline studio and a web ide... whyyy
2019-04-26T01:48:29 < mawk> yeah but meanwhile they don't even have an usb lib I think Cracki 
2019-04-26T01:48:34 < mawk> they don't put resources in the right places
2019-04-26T01:49:03 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
2019-04-26T01:49:24 < catphish> i'm totally excited for the arrival of my amiga this week
2019-04-26T01:49:53 < mawk> the vintagest device I owned was a gameboy, I'm too young for amiga
2019-04-26T01:50:11 < Cracki> blame the arm ecosystem. arm does its thing, every vendor does its own thing, ...
2019-04-26T01:50:19 < catphish> they're basically the same age
2019-04-26T01:50:22 < mawk> mbed is ARM, Cracki 
2019-04-26T01:50:25 < Cracki> I know
2019-04-26T01:50:26 < catphish> 1989 / 1987
2019-04-26T01:50:31 < mawk> right
2019-04-26T01:51:12 < Cracki> I would be excited if some more of these vendors dropped money on arm to make _the_ reference IDE. eclipse based for all I care, but pack it with features.
2019-04-26T01:51:36 < mawk> one thing that got pretty famous about mbed is its TLS library, now it's being shipped everywhere outside embedded stuff
2019-04-26T01:51:57 < Cracki> polarssl
2019-04-26T01:52:05 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-26T01:52:08 < Cracki> didn't that exist before mbed, and they vored that?
2019-04-26T01:52:26 < mawk> arm forked something that existed before yes
2019-04-26T01:52:28 < mawk> but was abandoned
2019-04-26T01:52:49 < Cracki> >the official continuation fork of the XySSL SSL library
2019-04-26T01:53:03 < Cracki> >XySSL was created by the French "white hat hacker" Christophe Devine [in 2006]
2019-04-26T01:53:06 < catphish> i just think for beginners it would be nice to have one tool with lots of assistive features that knows how to program / debug the boards, but also (and i care about this, many don't) allows you to use the devices at register level without forcing you to compile a ton of libraries you don't want
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2019-04-26T01:53:23 < Cracki> sounds reasonable
2019-04-26T01:53:27 < catphish> basically "arduino"
2019-04-26T01:53:37 < catphish> arduino really really works
2019-04-26T01:53:37 < mawk> → stm32duino
2019-04-26T01:53:41 < Cracki> yeah arduino helps a lot of people get their feet wet
2019-04-26T01:53:52 < mawk> well mbed feels arduinoish
2019-04-26T01:53:54 < Cracki> except when it doesn't because they fuck around with their goddamned bootloaders
2019-04-26T01:54:00 < mawk> they introduced us to stm32 with mbed at my school
2019-04-26T01:54:11 < mawk> then we continued with just baremetal using reference manual and registers
2019-04-26T01:54:20 < mawk> and cube headers
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2019-04-26T01:57:37 < catphish> i use the reference manual with cube headers, i guess everyone has their own comfort level but that's the perfect level for me
2019-04-26T01:58:18 < catphish> but i would enjoy doing so with a nice debugging IDE
2019-04-26T01:58:37 < mawk> I don't use ide, but I use cubeMX to generate initialization code
2019-04-26T01:58:50 < mawk> for something like USB it's pretty convenient, the ST USB lib is so large
2019-04-26T01:59:02 < catphish> i got some init code and linker files from somewhere, might have been cubemx
2019-04-26T01:59:06 < mawk> also it can generate FreeRTOS initialization code, DMA settings, everything
2019-04-26T01:59:09 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-26T01:59:19 < mawk> from a folder called template in the cube headers, I'm sure
2019-04-26T01:59:23 < mawk> it's what cubemx uses
2019-04-26T01:59:58 < Cracki> ... can you guys please not call them "cube headers". I keep thinking cube-shaped pin headers or something.
2019-04-26T02:00:14 < mawk> lol
2019-04-26T02:01:42 < Cracki> see this shit? this is thanks to the 0.16" offset on arduinos https://cdn.sparkfun.com//assets/parts/2/9/6/6/09374-1.jpg
2019-04-26T02:01:56 < mawk> lol
2019-04-26T02:02:09 < mawk> it's artistic
2019-04-26T02:02:27 < Cracki> that one adds 40 mil so you're in grid again
2019-04-26T02:08:51 < _unreal_> ?
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2019-04-26T02:11:42 < Cracki> arduino back then slipped off grid with their headers
2019-04-26T02:12:32 < Cracki> you know 100 mil (0.1") spacing? they must have worked with 10 mil snapping to achieve that. maybe they were aiming for 50 mil, which would have been bearable
2019-04-26T02:13:58 < Cracki> apparently a placement error on early prototypes, and they stuck with it
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2019-04-26T02:24:30 < Thorn> if I want to monitor my battery and report to the user when it needs charging, is there a benefit to using a fuel gauge such as max17043, or should I simply measure the voltage with an adc?
2019-04-26T02:27:35 < Cracki> are you gonna integrate voltage over time to estimate capacity, or are you just gonna say "don't charge yet" vs "you must charge now!"
2019-04-26T02:27:36 < mawk> comparator, reference voltage and gpio ?
2019-04-26T02:27:41 < mawk> isn't adc power hungry ?
2019-04-26T02:27:49 < specing> Thorn: just voltage will be fine
2019-04-26T02:27:49 < Cracki> not if you do it once a minute :>
2019-04-26T02:27:55 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-26T02:28:12 < specing> mawk: you don't have to have ADC turned on all the time
2019-04-26T02:28:17 < mawk> indeed
2019-04-26T02:28:38 < Cracki> if you even think about wanting to know the power level, and not just "ok/must charge", maybe the gauge is a good idea
2019-04-26T02:28:42 < specing> and last time I checked the datasheet, TIM1 consumed more than the ADC
2019-04-26T02:29:31 < specing> you can eyeball the remaining energy form voltage
2019-04-26T02:29:33 < Thorn> I've got an ADC that eats 39µA *during conversion*, 0.1µA typ / 0.5µA max in sleep mode
2019-04-26T02:29:34 < specing> from*
2019-04-26T02:30:02 < Cracki> and nothing when completely switched off, I hope?
2019-04-26T02:30:12 < Cracki> what does the max gauge consume?
2019-04-26T02:30:15 < Thorn> mcp3421
2019-04-26T02:30:55 < Cracki> max17043 says 50 uA active, 0.5-1 uA sleep
2019-04-26T02:31:37 < Thorn> max17043 consumes 50...75µA in active mode but I'm not sure if active means the whole time battery is connected
2019-04-26T02:31:41 < Cracki> uh discrete adc for batt monitoring?
2019-04-26T02:40:49 < specing> Cracki: what?
2019-04-26T02:41:04 < specing> why needlessly complicate this stuff
2019-04-26T02:41:12 < specing> just use the built in ADC
2019-04-26T02:41:15 < Cracki> you have no idea what I meant
2019-04-26T02:41:27 < Cracki> he linked a discrete adc
2019-04-26T02:41:40 < Cracki> maybe ask before assuming next time, tyvm
2019-04-26T02:42:34 < specing> 0.5 uA max in sleep mode .... that is 50 thousand years to drain a coin cell flat?!
2019-04-26T02:44:00 < Thorn> the max17043 has a 12-bit adc, same as my stm32 lol
2019-04-26T02:44:31 < Thorn> so the question is, whether its "SOC" figure that it computes is useful
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2019-04-26T02:48:28 < Cracki> they do the math in their chip so you don't have to in software
2019-04-26T02:48:51 < Cracki> do you actually need soc in terms of Wh or something?
2019-04-26T02:50:36 < Cracki> one maxim chip I was disappointed by is the 3010x. they act like it's got some algorithms at least, but it has none. you basically get optoelectronics and an ADC... so _that_ did _not_ do the math in-chip
2019-04-26T02:57:39 < Thorn> yeah it looks like this max chip is just an adc + some magic, the only input data it has access to is voltage
2019-04-26T02:59:32 < Cracki> if it has the magic, that's good
2019-04-26T03:00:05 < Cracki> from a quick google I've seen other chips that use shunts and maybe even hall effect sensors to count
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2019-04-26T03:00:52 < Cracki> if maxim has magic math, I'd hope they have models for common cell chemistries
2019-04-26T03:01:39 < Cracki> I think they need current as well
2019-04-26T03:02:13 < Thorn> there's only one default model + a register for magic correction values / coefficients that you're supposed to obtain from Maxim lol
2019-04-26T03:03:11 < Cracki> hm. they have an RC on the CELL pin, and that's all...
2019-04-26T03:04:02 < Cracki> maybe that IC isn't all that useful
2019-04-26T03:06:06 < Thorn> when magic loses its magic it becomes bullshit lol
2019-04-26T03:06:12 < Cracki> and it isn't free like a peripheral in your controller is
2019-04-26T03:07:43 < Cracki> if you knew the chemistry (3.6/3.7/3.8V) and internal resistance of the battery, I think you could figure something halfway accurate
2019-04-26T03:08:52 < Thorn> I thought this chip would somehow measure the output resistance of the battery to do its magic but no
2019-04-26T03:09:02 < Thorn> or at least infer it
2019-04-26T03:09:15 < Thorn> Dave taught his son to solder already https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lamL392NJRM
2019-04-26T03:09:26 < Cracki> yay
2019-04-26T03:09:44 < Cracki> wait, how old is dave's wife?
2019-04-26T03:09:54 < Cracki> dave looks like he's 50 or 60
2019-04-26T03:10:50 < Cracki> bright eyes kids... haha
2019-04-26T03:11:43 < Thorn> 40+ for sure but not quite 60 yet lol
2019-04-26T03:12:46 < Cracki> right, he's an aussie, they are all leathery
2019-04-26T03:13:37 < Cracki> love the fume filter, very important. extra spotlight on the work piece maybe?
2019-04-26T03:15:43 < Cracki> I think the thin wire was a good choice. easier to dose than 1mm
2019-04-26T03:17:16 < Cracki> that maxim chip... must assume negligible discharge current or else it can't just apply such a curve https://batteryuniversity.com/_img/content/discharge_voltage_of_lithium_iron_phosphate.jpg
2019-04-26T03:18:26 < Cracki> maybe they oversample and take the ~90th quantile voltage and assume that's near no load and not too noisy
2019-04-26T03:20:40 < Cracki> nice read https://www.richtek.com/m/~/media/AN%20PDF/AN024_TW.pdf
2019-04-26T03:20:57 < Cracki> sorry, https://www.richtek.com/Design%20Support/Technical%20Document/AN024
2019-04-26T03:26:44 < Cracki> so their thing also only uses voltage, but somehow figures open circuit voltage without open circuit
2019-04-26T03:31:24 < Thorn> my mcu will know when there's minimal system current being drawn and whether the battery is being charged or not
2019-04-26T03:32:01 < Cracki> diy then, looks like you need a record a curve and that's about it
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2019-04-26T06:39:16 < ColdKeyboard> Who do you use for quick/cheap PCB prototypes? I usually go to SeeedStudio for PCBs but since they axed free shipping I'm wondering if you guys have cost competitive suggestions? :)
2019-04-26T06:41:31 < dongs> allpcb?
2019-04-26T06:41:35 < dongs> they just recently dropped prices too
2019-04-26T06:41:39 < dongs> and 1st proto for new user is free
2019-04-26T06:41:43 < dongs> so.. you can't beat that i guess
2019-04-26T06:48:23 < ColdKeyboard> Nice, I'll take a look at those two
2019-04-26T06:52:44 < dongs> i think eurofags also like elecrow?
2019-04-26T06:52:50 < dongs> i donno how that shit works
2019-04-26T06:53:12 < dongs> anyway allpcb dhl is cheap (they do have hk post for free) and t he dhl shit arrives to eu like 2nd dayh
2019-04-26T07:28:50 < _unreal_> I'll give DHL one thing, they DONT fuck around
2019-04-26T07:29:33 < _unreal_> I've purchased a lot of hobbyking HK orders that got he to the US in like 3 days
2019-04-26T07:29:46 < _unreal_> hk hong kong
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2019-04-26T09:49:28 < dongs> yeah
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2019-04-26T11:51:06 < catphish> ColdKeyboard: i use allpcb, with their DHL shipping they can do production + delivery to UK in 72 hours!
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2019-04-26T11:56:51 < jadew`> catphish, that's nice
2019-04-26T11:56:59 < jadew`> I'll have to give them a try
2019-04-26T12:07:38 < dongs> tehy use proper direct dhl (but still cheaP)
2019-04-26T12:07:47 < dongs> instead of agent dhl that ends up goign to HK for a few days then being slow
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2019-04-26T12:11:03 < jadew`> my boards got delayed by DHL for 2 weeks already because of a technicality on the invoice
2019-04-26T12:11:10 < catphish> also, the price, it's essentially less than i'd expect the DHL shipping to cost, including shipping :|
2019-04-26T12:11:27 < jadew`> they just refused to turn the package to the customs officers, if they did, it would have gone through
2019-04-26T12:11:40 < catphish> it's not as cheap as others (who use snail mail) but it's definitely insanely cheap for a fast service imo
2019-04-26T12:12:16 < catphish> dhl do see to make a lot of customs mistakes
2019-04-26T12:12:21 < jadew`> this tends to happen like once out of 5 times with DHL, so if you average them out, it might not be 3 days
2019-04-26T12:12:41 < catphish> also, with allpcb/dhl, i don't seem to get charged at all for tax on small orders with just a PCB
2019-04-26T12:12:43 < jadew`> they're not mistakes, they want to make you pay more
2019-04-26T12:13:02 < catphish> oh yeah, one other thing, allpcb always lie about the value on the packed invoice
2019-04-26T12:13:20 < jadew`> catphish, neat, maybe you're not hitting the tax threshold
2019-04-26T12:13:24 < jadew`> in here it's 12 euro
2019-04-26T12:13:30 < jadew`> so you hit that easily
2019-04-26T12:13:44 < catphish> jadew`: afaik the UK has no limit, but mayeb i'm wrong because sometimes i don't get charged
2019-04-26T12:14:04 < catphish> allpcb always under-value on the packing slip invoice, so that helps
2019-04-26T12:14:11 < jadew`> a fake invoice would be a nightmare with DHL in my case
2019-04-26T12:14:37 < jadew`> the customs officers would be happy to go by what I paid (you have to provide proof of payment)
2019-04-26T12:14:43 < jadew`> and completely disregard the invoice
2019-04-26T12:15:05 < jadew`> but DHL is too stuck up to do something like this
2019-04-26T12:15:15 < catphish> well for me DHL pay the tax on my behalf if its due then invoice me, and they do it based on the attacked invoice
2019-04-26T12:15:25 < catphish> so i often underpay
2019-04-26T12:15:43 < catphish> but i don't feel bad because dhl also add on their own "fuck you" fee
2019-04-26T12:16:17 < jadew`> I pay the tax myself - it's part of how I get away from paying the fee they charge for handling my shit
2019-04-26T12:16:28 < Steffanx> Afaik here in dutchland the taxed amount includes shipping costs.
2019-04-26T12:16:32 < catphish> on an unrelated topic, yay my floppy drive has arrived, i wonder if its IO will work on 3v3 (it's supposed to be 5v i believe)
2019-04-26T12:16:44 < jadew`> Steffanx, here too
2019-04-26T12:16:53 < catphish> jadew`: yeah if you have an account with local tax folks then that's the better option
2019-04-26T12:17:04 < Steffanx> Even when shipping is free. Because the shipping obviously has a commercial value blablabla
2019-04-26T12:17:07 < catphish> Steffanx: that's the case everywhere i believe
2019-04-26T12:17:34 < catphish> well if the shipping is free then the value of the shipping was obviously included in the value of the product
2019-04-26T12:17:41 < catphish> so that doesn't change anything
2019-04-26T12:17:51 < Steffanx> They once charged me for f-ing 100 euro, because that whats "free" is.
2019-04-26T12:18:08 < jadew`> catphish, tell that to DHL, that's why they delayed my package for 2 weeks
2019-04-26T12:18:21 < catphish> dhl once "guessed" a shipping value and added it onto my import tax
2019-04-26T12:18:27 < catphish> i just refused to pay it
2019-04-26T12:18:48 < Steffanx> That's not how the customs sees it catphish. 
2019-04-26T12:19:16 < catphish> Steffanx: no, DHL loan you the money, pay customs, then invoice you
2019-04-26T12:19:25 < rajkosto> they charge you 30eur for the loan
2019-04-26T12:19:27 < Steffanx> But fuck fedex as well. Charge 48 euros as some "multiple items additional costs" 
2019-04-26T12:19:27 < catphish> Steffanx: so it's DHL's loss  if i refuse to pay then
2019-04-26T12:19:51 < jadew`> best experience I had was with TNT
2019-04-26T12:20:16 < Steffanx> Nah, i think itll be my loss when i do that catphish :(
2019-04-26T12:20:39 < jadew`> you don't want to be sued over $10
2019-04-26T12:20:43 < catphish> weirdly DHL suck at resolving such disputes, i repeatedly offered to pay them what i believed was the correct (slightly lower) value, they ignored me and eventually just gave up
2019-04-26T12:21:11 < Steffanx> Until they wake up again
2019-04-26T12:21:28 < catphish> well if they ever want the money they can have it
2019-04-26T12:21:49 < catphish> but i emailed them about it agian 6 months later, and they replied saying they'd written it off, so meh
2019-04-26T12:22:02 < jadew`> ah, you're good then
2019-04-26T12:22:33 < jadew`> you're a hero, you screwed DHL for a change
2019-04-26T12:22:47 < catphish> well they were the ones that made a mistake
2019-04-26T12:22:56 < jadew`> we should hang your picture on the wall of the channel
2019-04-26T12:23:27 < catphish> if they're gonna loan people money without their consent, they gotta at least get their math right :)
2019-04-26T12:26:09 < catphish> basically they didn't see the delivery cost that was printed on the invoice so they estimated it and added it on, then they added on their "lending you money charge", because it was a small amount to begin with, this was the difference between like $5 of tax and a $30 total invoice, i was not impressed, i offered to pay them the full amount they were out of pocket to customs, but not their feee, the never accepted it
2019-04-26T12:27:47 < Steffanx> What they now do suck as well. They charge you before you have your item, but still include that fee crap. Had it twice with jlcpcb stuff
2019-04-26T12:28:49 < Steffanx> Before = when your item is still in hongkong
2019-04-26T12:29:12 < catphish> well that seems sane enough, but they don't want items being delayed
2019-04-26T12:29:45 < catphish> i'm glad they don't do that with deliveries to here, i geuss enough people pay that they don't mind risking it
2019-04-26T12:30:37 < catphish> right, time to play with the floppy drive :)
2019-04-26T12:31:55 < Steffanx> Enjoy the nostalgia
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2019-04-26T12:53:12 < catphish> looks like floppy with work fine with stm32, inputs at least just need to be pulled down to 0v for a logic 1
2019-04-26T12:53:19 < catphish> *will
2019-04-26T13:00:35 < jadew`> here's a question: why?
2019-04-26T13:06:28 < catphish> i want to build an amiga disk reader/writer
2019-04-26T13:06:40 < catphish> (so i can work with some old amigas)
2019-04-26T13:07:59 < jadew`> couldn't find an old one?
2019-04-26T13:09:19 < catphish> an old what?
2019-04-26T13:09:56 < catphish> there's basically no such thing off the shelf
2019-04-26T13:10:16 < catphish> (to read/write amiga disks in a modern pc)
2019-04-26T13:10:28 < catphish> this drive seems to work well anyway :) https://imgur.com/a/LeEOGAP
2019-04-26T13:10:47 < jadew`> ah, I thought you just needed to fix your amiga or something
2019-04-26T13:11:37 < catphish> ah, no, the idea is just to be able to use the amiga(s) by writing disks from downloaded software
2019-04-26T13:11:44 < jadew`> catphish, what happens if you click that green button next to the sample speed?
2019-04-26T13:12:10 < jadew`> mind posting a screenshot?
2019-04-26T13:18:07 < catphish> jadew`: https://i.imgur.com/ptjn1Fl.png
2019-04-26T13:18:11 < catphish> lots of decoders
2019-04-26T13:18:19 < catphish> not one for floppy drives though :)
2019-04-26T13:18:29 < jadew`> ah, I thought they ripped me off too
2019-04-26T13:19:00 < catphish> ?
2019-04-26T13:19:27 < jadew`> I made a logic analyzer client a long time ago and various features god copied by various other clients
2019-04-26T13:19:50 < jadew`> I pulled it when I realized I have nothing to gain from it
2019-04-26T13:21:15 < jadew`> http://5.12.95.9/stuff/la.png
2019-04-26T13:21:41 < catphish> this is pulseview / sigrok, the open source standard
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2019-04-26T13:21:57 < jadew`> I know
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2019-04-26T13:23:28 < jadew`> was garbage when I made mine
2019-04-26T13:23:31 < jadew`> still looks like crap
2019-04-26T13:23:44 < catphish> lol it is
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2019-04-26T13:30:33 < jadew`> this is how opensource is bad
2019-04-26T13:34:04 < jadew`> thanks for the screenshot btw
2019-04-26T13:34:26 < catphish> well, it's good in so much as that it's free, works, and suported an array of cheap hardware
2019-04-26T13:36:27 < jadew`> the problem is that even if it's shit, it's a displacement force for commercial software
2019-04-26T13:36:49 < jadew`> and in some measure, it hinders the development of proper software
2019-04-26T13:39:01 < jadew`> what LA are you using?
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2019-04-26T13:42:15 < catphish> "the cheap one"
2019-04-26T13:42:21 < jadew`> got it
2019-04-26T13:42:56 < catphish> like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Logic-Analyser-24MHz-8-Channel-Input-20cm-USB-Analyzer-Dupont-Flux-Workshop/111674825674
2019-04-26T13:43:04 < jadew`> yeah, the cypress one
2019-04-26T13:43:46 < rajkosto> fx2lp with pin headers on all the ports
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2019-04-26T13:43:56 < catphish> that's the one
2019-04-26T13:44:05 < catphish> seems effective enough
2019-04-26T13:44:32 < jadew`> only 8 channels tho
2019-04-26T13:44:35 < catphish> i'm not very spendy when it comes to electronics tools
2019-04-26T13:45:25 < catphish> i wonder if an stm32 could do the same with more channels, dunno how fast its ports will run
2019-04-26T13:45:37 < catphish> but meh, the 8 channel device is perfect for my use cases
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2019-04-26T14:14:48 < rajkosto> most stm32 cant do anything close to the bandwidth of a fx2lp
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2019-04-26T14:19:36 <@englishman> last time I downloaded pulseview, it crashed on open
2019-04-26T14:20:02 <@englishman> the analolgue discovery 2 is quite nice even if the software is a little cumbersome
2019-04-26T14:21:00 <@englishman> for basic stuff like making triggered pulses and reading out logic it replaces a bunch of other equipment
2019-04-26T14:25:05 < karlp> jadew`: until your software is available again, it doesn't matter what you think of it, it's irrelevant.
2019-04-26T14:26:27 < jadew`> karlp, the availability of my software has no influence on how crap pulseview is
2019-04-26T14:26:58 < karlp> it does when you say yours is better.
2019-04-26T14:27:17 < jadew`> well, it is still available to me so...
2019-04-26T14:28:23 < jadew`> and I'm not the only one saying it, there are old discussions on various forums where other people are saying it
2019-04-26T14:29:03 < karlp> so what, you made free software, then got in a hissy fit because it didn't make you rich and famous?
2019-04-26T14:29:18 < jadew`> pretty much, yeah
2019-04-26T14:31:21 < BrainDamage> when I worked on a game, there was one contributor that would code massively complex features, take a clip of them, then throw a hissy fit over unrelated nonsense and delete without publishing
2019-04-26T14:31:29 < BrainDamage> it was quite hilarious
2019-04-26T14:32:58 < jadew`> my problem was that I wasn't benefiting from my work, while others were
2019-04-26T14:33:52 < jadew`> free software is just a nuisance if you care about it
2019-04-26T14:34:16 < jadew`> you get to deal with the needs of the users, for 0 cost
2019-04-26T14:34:50 < jadew`> at the same time, you give your ideas for free to the world
2019-04-26T14:35:36 < jadew`> I still released free and/or opensource stuff afterwards, but it was only crap I didn't care about
2019-04-26T14:36:47 < jadew`> like the client for the seek thermal camera, which, because it was also opensource got cannibalized, but that was my intention with that one anyway, I was hoping someone else would come up with something better
2019-04-26T14:36:50 < jadew`> they didn't
2019-04-26T14:37:41 < catphish> interfacing stm32 with a 5v device is tedious
2019-04-26T14:38:51 < jadew`> catphish, there are bidirectional buffers out there
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2019-04-26T14:39:00 < jadew`> *level converters
2019-04-26T14:39:52 < catphish> yeah a level shifter is probably the simplest solution
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2019-04-26T14:41:48 < catphish> i guess all i really need is a handful of small mosfets
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2019-04-26T15:09:14 <@englishman> open drain all the things
2019-04-26T15:10:10 <@englishman> or use 5v tolerant pins and devices that switch on <3.3v which is most of them.
2019-04-26T15:16:29 < kakimir> how do I enable or set breakpoints in openocd
2019-04-26T15:17:04 < kakimir> I do "bp addr len hw" but it seems to not to halt there
2019-04-26T15:17:19 <@englishman> wow diodes Inc is killing it with their devboards and samples
2019-04-26T15:17:33 <@englishman> friendship ended with TI; Diodes Inc is my new best friend
2019-04-26T15:17:57 < kakimir> Diodes Inc is killing it with prices too
2019-04-26T15:26:42 < mawk> st released a "STM32CubeIDE"
2019-04-26T15:26:53 < Steffanx> What dev boards are you referring toomr englishman ?
2019-04-26T15:28:43 <@englishman> in this case dps1133, so I guess an evalboard not a devboard. but I just asked them a question via email about evaluating this part, and their reply included a FedEx Express tracking number.
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2019-04-26T15:37:27 < Steffanx> USB PD much
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2019-04-26T16:01:31 < jadew`> what's webmoney?
2019-04-26T16:01:39 < mawk> chinese thing
2019-04-26T16:01:39 < jadew`> I see it as a payment option on aliexpress
2019-04-26T16:01:41 < mawk> yes
2019-04-26T16:01:43 < jadew`> ah
2019-04-26T16:01:44 < mawk> chinese paypal
2019-04-26T16:01:49 < mawk> something like this
2019-04-26T16:01:49 < jadew`> that's why it sounds so stupid
2019-04-26T16:01:53 < mawk> lol
2019-04-26T16:02:55 < Thorn> webmoney is russian not chinese
2019-04-26T16:03:21 < mawk> ah right
2019-04-26T16:03:41 < jadew`> still sounds stupid tho
2019-04-26T16:03:54 < mawk> https://intl.alipay.com/
2019-04-26T16:03:57 < mawk> paypal counterfeit
2019-04-26T16:04:43 < BrainDamage> alipay is huge in china
2019-04-26T16:05:40 < jadew`> probably just as trustworthy as paypal
2019-04-26T16:06:08 < karlp> probably better
2019-04-26T16:14:59 < mawk> lol I'm downloading the new ST cube IDE and the file is a .deb.bundle.sh.zip
2019-04-26T16:26:29 < Thorn> .uue
2019-04-26T16:27:08 < mawk> it's compressed 4 times it means
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2019-04-26T16:32:11 < marble_visions> everyone knows that the data shrinks in half after each compression, duh
2019-04-26T16:35:10 < Thorn> that's why you need to uuencode it, so that it doesn't get too small
2019-04-26T16:37:54 < marble_visions> i am constantly amazed at the command line gems that come with linux
2019-04-26T16:38:07 < marble_visions> things like uuencode, xxd
2019-04-26T16:38:25 < mawk> of course
2019-04-26T16:39:47 < mawk> wow I have like several GiB of duplicated ST code now
2019-04-26T16:40:12 < mawk> stm32cube libraries are installed in a *standard* path but this cube IDE thing wants to redownload them anyway
2019-04-26T16:51:35 < Steffanx> Awh
2019-04-26T16:52:47 < mawk> I only have a 120GiB disk
2019-04-26T16:56:00 < dongs> standard path? on lunix?
2019-04-26T16:56:03 < dongs> nice joke
2019-04-26T16:57:08 < aandrew> heh
2019-04-26T17:01:55 < mawk> yes in $HOME/STM32Cube/Repository
2019-04-26T17:03:26 < mawk> it's eclipse based thing
2019-04-26T17:03:38 < mawk> I already don't like this what is all this syscalls.c shit
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2019-04-26T17:04:26 < mawk> it's C90 code
2019-04-26T17:04:29 < mawk> very ugly
2019-04-26T17:04:37 < mawk> and they capitalize variables
2019-04-26T17:06:28 < marble_visions> just wrap it in tin foil and handle it with oven gloves
2019-04-26T17:07:53 < marble_visions> i've never had this issue, running cube from an up-to-date centos 7
2019-04-26T17:08:04 < mawk> it's cube *IDE*
2019-04-26T17:08:11 < mawk> the new thing they released yesterday
2019-04-26T17:08:20 < marble_visions> what
2019-04-26T17:08:23 < marble_visions> lemme check
2019-04-26T17:10:35 < marble_visions> why do they continue with this email check shit
2019-04-26T17:11:37 < mawk> lol
2019-04-26T17:11:48 < mawk> and they fixed it, before it took like spinning during 20s to login
2019-04-26T17:12:04 <@englishman> Steffanx: usb pd and usb C are awesome. so much powah
2019-04-26T17:12:12 <@englishman> so much flexibility
2019-04-26T17:13:31 < mawk> pd means fag in french
2019-04-26T17:13:44 < mawk> abbreviation of pederast
2019-04-26T17:13:49 < mawk> so I don't like usb pd
2019-04-26T17:14:12 < mawk> marketing team should consult other languages than english, it happens all the time
2019-04-26T17:14:34 < mawk> for instance with the HP Sprout laptop/pad, "sprout" is "fart"
2019-04-26T17:16:49 < Thorn> 5 cent rtr op amp, often out of stock due to popularity https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Operational-Amplifiers_LMV321A-TR_C97671.html
2019-04-26T17:23:06 < Sadale> I've got a question. Why there's only one position for the capacitance of this multimeter? https://www.amazon.com/Multimeter-HOLDPEAK-Manual-Ranging-Resistance%EF%BC%8CCapacitance-Inductance/dp/B01C40HI6C
2019-04-26T17:25:34 < jadew`> cuz it only has one range
2019-04-26T17:25:37 < jadew`> 20 uF
2019-04-26T17:26:15 < Sadale> oh. So it can only measure from 0.01uF to 19.99uF ?
2019-04-26T17:27:07 < jadew`> yeah 20 uF divided by however many counts it has
2019-04-26T17:27:15 < Sadale> that sounds lame :(
2019-04-26T17:27:18 < Sadale> It's better than nothing I guess.
2019-04-26T17:31:34 < jadew`> are you getting that for yourself?
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2019-04-26T17:33:22 < Sadale> nope.
2019-04-26T17:33:43 < Sadale> I'm just looking for a better el cheapo multimeter to replace my current ultra el cheapo one :P
2019-04-26T17:34:10 < Sadale> I look for them on taobao. Not on amazon. I just need to somehow post a pic to you guys so I find an equivalent by googling around
2019-04-26T17:35:01 < jadew`> https://www.amazon.com/Crenova-Auto-Ranging-Multimeter-Measuring-Backlight/dp/B00KXX2OYY
2019-04-26T17:35:12 < jadew`> only a couple of bucks more can get you an autoranging one
2019-04-26T17:35:38 < jadew`> and it's crenova so you know it's good
2019-04-26T17:39:26 < Sadale> cool!
2019-04-26T17:39:53 < Sadale> In fact, some multimeter apparently does autorange for capacitance measurement. https://img.banggood.com/file/products/20160617034714UT890D-UT890C+%20User%20Manual.pdf
2019-04-26T17:43:30 < dongs> auto-raging
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2019-04-26T17:59:49 < mawk> you like it marble_visions ?
2019-04-26T18:05:35 < Cracki> that one has a huge dial, I don't see autoranging for caps there
2019-04-26T18:05:45 < Cracki> nvm it says auto under the table
2019-04-26T18:13:42 < Sadale> It says autorange for capacitance measurement.
2019-04-26T18:21:56 < jadew`> Sadale, I was joking about knowing it's good
2019-04-26T18:22:12 < jadew`> first time I hear about that company
2019-04-26T18:25:49 < dongs> damn
2019-04-26T18:25:52 < dongs> i was cleaning my VM install
2019-04-26T18:26:01 < dongs> and I was like "why the fuck i have this ancient keil4 installed"
2019-04-26T18:26:03 < dongs> and wiped it
2019-04-26T18:26:12 < mawk> delete and reinstall is how you clean vm
2019-04-26T18:26:12 < dongs> today i realized it was for C51
2019-04-26T18:26:23 < dongs> and i acutally need to build some shit in it
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2019-04-26T18:34:24 < BrainDamage> I don't reinstall, I keep a copy without crap and clone that
2019-04-26T18:35:47 < Thorn> *BANG* https://youtu.be/Rp-0FqxQkBw?t=1650
2019-04-26T18:37:36 < jadew`> what BrainDamage said
2019-04-26T18:37:49 < jadew`> I have a script I use to spawn a new one of whatever I need
2019-04-26T18:38:32 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVLPP6HS1Xc today's muzak
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2019-04-26T18:40:42 < jadew`> the girl is fading away
2019-04-26T18:54:38 < Thorn> lcsc is shipping qfn loose in a bag
2019-04-26T18:56:31 < jadew`> sounds normal for second hand qfn
2019-04-26T18:57:08 < Thorn> second hand = someone grew out of it and sold it to lcsc?
2019-04-26T18:58:14 < jadew`> second hand = desoldered above a tire fire in India and shipped back to China
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2019-04-26T18:59:18 < Thorn> they must've done a real good job cleaning the solder from the pads
2019-04-26T19:01:36 < jadew`> they sell that separately
2019-04-26T19:02:28 < Thorn> sustainability ftw
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2019-04-26T19:15:07 < dongs> yeah chinagirl used to send me qfns in a bag
2019-04-26T19:15:19 < dongs> at least i taught her to tape it to a cardboard peice now
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2019-04-26T19:18:15 < jadew`> they're receiving them on a tray?
2019-04-26T19:19:10 < aandrew> haha
2019-04-26T19:19:22 < dongs> jadew`: no, also in a bag
2019-04-26T19:23:05 < Thorn> I also ordered 500 XH pins, they wrapped the strip around a piece of carboard and wrapped it all in 25 layers of plastic wrap. it looked like a bomb
2019-04-26T19:34:32 <@englishman> mawk: pqoi pas usb pédicure
2019-04-26T19:34:47 < mawk> usb podologue
2019-04-26T19:41:41 < Thorn> JST crimper (PH only) https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/jst-sales-america-inc/YRS-241/455-2047-ND/1634788
2019-04-26T19:43:04 < kakimir> babby's first debugger target reset procedure override
2019-04-26T19:43:45 < kakimir> kudos to PaulFertser for showing me the way and also for patiently rubberducking
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2019-04-26T20:33:40 < Thorn> today's USB wisdom https://gct.co/images/products/usb-connector/mating-configurations-usb.jpg
2019-04-26T20:34:10 < Thorn> (has anyone seen micro-A IRL?)
2019-04-26T20:36:21 < aandrew> nope I can't say I've ever seen micro-a
2019-04-26T20:39:00 < jadew`> me neither, but I have an AB adapter
2019-04-26T20:40:57 < kakimir> Thorn: todays history of USB
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2019-04-26T20:48:48 < karlp> my old phone had the AB connector.
2019-04-26T20:49:18 < karlp> not sure I ever saw the micro-a plug anyhwhere though
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2019-04-26T20:57:07 <@englishman> Thorn: yes I use that
2019-04-26T20:57:16 <@englishman> but not for usb
2019-04-26T20:57:25 <@englishman> and not because it's a good idea
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2019-04-26T21:00:03 < karlp> mawk: french had their turn at being lingua franca.  that time has passed.  so no, we're not going to gfive a shit about what french thinks of acronyms.
2019-04-26T21:00:30 < mawk> if you want to sell to french yes you do
2019-04-26T21:00:41 < mawk> hp sprout was a major fail
2019-04-26T21:00:53 < karlp> was iot fail because it was just a shitty product?
2019-04-26T21:01:01 < karlp>  like, did it only sell badly in france?
2019-04-26T21:01:11 < mawk> it'd failed less hard in any case
2019-04-26T21:03:05 < mawk> if your product is named Shitfuckcrap® people won't even consider thinking about buying
2019-04-26T21:04:27 <@englishman> sigfox sounds like nothing it's a stupid idea and a stupid name. there aren't even any foxes. did the french know that fox is a type of animal?
2019-04-26T21:05:47 < Steffanx> Internet Explorer is best browser name right?
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2019-04-26T21:16:22 < catphish> can an stm timer record the time between each rising edge of an input?
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2019-04-26T21:18:13 < catphish> that is to say, both capture and reset the timer on the same edge of the same pin
2019-04-26T21:19:40 < catphish> looks like it can measure PWM period, do that's a yes :)
2019-04-26T21:19:54 < catphish> lovely
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2019-04-26T22:25:18 < zyp> yup, you can even have one channel capture period and another capturing duty
2019-04-26T22:25:45 < catphish> in this case, i don't care about the duty, just the time between rising edges
2019-04-26T22:26:02 < catphish> but looks like it can do any combination :)
2019-04-26T22:26:26 < zyp> Thorn, I think I've got a micro-A to micro-B cable somewhere
2019-04-26T22:27:01 < zyp> but all the other OTG stuff I've seen just use micro-B with the ID pin coded for A
2019-04-26T22:27:35 < zyp> which makes sense since a bunch of OTG-capable phones use a B socket instead of an AB socket
2019-04-26T22:29:26 < jpa-> i have microusb OTG B-to-B cable that just connects the ID pin through.. so i've come to habit to ground it on device side on my pcbs
2019-04-26T22:29:43 < zyp> haha, what the fuck
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2019-04-26T22:30:13 < zyp> anyway, micro-AB is kinda moot anyway
2019-04-26T22:30:28 < zyp> go with type-C for anything OTG now
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2019-04-26T22:31:41 < zyp> at this point I'd only consider micro for a simple device-only thing
2019-04-26T22:39:19 < Steffanx> reminds me of this device that uses usb-A for host and device (with a sw switch)
2019-04-26T22:45:14 < zyp> eww
2019-04-26T22:46:24 < Steffanx> Yeah what to say.
2019-04-26T23:04:07 < Steffanx> Luckily A-A cables are actualyl a thing
2019-04-26T23:09:15 < qyx> fuk A-A cables
2019-04-26T23:10:50 <@englishman> ^
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2019-04-26T23:27:40 < karlp> a-a are fucking dumb, burn in hell rockchip
2019-04-26T23:31:37 < jadew`> could be male to female, which is useful
2019-04-26T23:31:41 < Cracki> oh boy aa cables... there's this hdmi/sdi to usb video class converter. it uses an usb3 A-A cable, for some unknown reason.
2019-04-26T23:32:40 < Cracki> the device is otherwise excellent but _that_ they could have done with usb3 micro-b or something
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2019-04-26T23:46:35 < karlp> jadew`: yeah, those are just an extension, I wouldn't refer to them as a-a cables.
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2019-04-26T23:54:49 < Thorn> can I use type C in my stm32+charger projects? do I need an extra chip for that?
2019-04-26T23:57:31 < kakimir> what I have heard it's just a connector
2019-04-26T23:58:16 < englishman> depends what you want out of it
2019-04-26T23:58:27 < englishman> go grab the usbC spec
2019-04-26T23:58:29 < englishman> and the PD spec
2019-04-26T23:58:31 < englishman> and have a read
2019-04-26T23:58:59 < englishman> if you just want usb2 and 5V then no you dont need another IC
2019-04-26T23:59:15 < englishman> but you can add one to make some things easier
--- Day changed Sat Apr 27 2019
2019-04-27T00:00:00 < Thorn> I want usb 2 data + DCP/CDP detection for 1A charging
2019-04-27T00:01:25 < englishman> then you just add some resistors to get 5V. whether you get 1A is up to the source
2019-04-27T00:01:25 < Thorn> same as what I'm doing with micro-B right now
2019-04-27T00:02:17 < englishman> just start with the usbC spec there is not too much to know
2019-04-27T00:02:27 < englishman> PD adds a bunch of shit but you probably won't need it
2019-04-27T00:05:40 < Thorn> ok thx
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2019-04-27T00:22:52 < zyp> if you have a circuit with micro-b (i.e. device only, legacy charging protocols) and you wanna swap to type-c without losing or gaining any extra features, all you need is a pulldown resistor on each CC line
2019-04-27T00:23:26 < zyp> that's what's inside any C to B cables
2019-04-27T00:24:42 < zyp> if you want to also add support for type-C charger detection, hook up each CC line to an ADC channel
2019-04-27T00:25:49 < zyp> host pulls up CC, which means the CC line ends up in the middle of a voltage divider
2019-04-27T00:26:26 < zyp> there's three different pullup values defined, signalling either legacy current limit, 1.5A or 3A
2019-04-27T00:26:39 < zyp> so ADC will tell you which
2019-04-27T00:27:14 < zyp> if you wanna do OTG, grab that chip dongs found once, it handles both CC lines and provides an old style ID output
2019-04-27T00:28:14 < Thorn> so PD works on the same principle as BCD but with CC lines, not data lines?
2019-04-27T00:28:29 < zyp> this has nothing to do with PD
2019-04-27T00:28:55 < zyp> what I just described is type-C charger detection, it's part of the type-C spec
2019-04-27T00:29:13 < zyp> and will give you 15W (3A/5V)
2019-04-27T00:29:39 < zyp> PD is for applications where you need more power than 15W
2019-04-27T00:29:42 < Thorn> will BCD charger detection still work through type-C? (e.g. A to C cable)
2019-04-27T00:29:48 < zyp> yes
2019-04-27T00:29:59 < Thorn> good
2019-04-27T00:30:10 < zyp> switching to type-C doesn't change what you do with D-/D+ lines
2019-04-27T00:31:12 < zyp> the CC line can also carry digital comms, overlaid over the voltage divider stuff
2019-04-27T00:31:20 < zyp> PD negotiation happens there
2019-04-27T00:31:25 < zyp> also cable detection
2019-04-27T01:00:02 < kakimir> what is the LSB bit of pointer to thumb instruction called?
2019-04-27T01:00:28 < kakimir> liek thumb flag or something?
2019-04-27T01:00:53 < kakimir> do you understand what I'm trying to ask?
2019-04-27T01:01:00 < kakimir> I don't
2019-04-27T01:03:12 < kakimir> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.dui0471g/Babfjhia.html
2019-04-27T01:03:52 < Cracki> This ensures that interworking works interly.
2019-04-27T01:05:06 < kakimir> does this have terminology?
2019-04-27T01:05:40 < kakimir> thumb pointer
2019-04-27T01:05:44 < kakimir> I named it
2019-04-27T01:06:29 < zyp> more like dumb pointer
2019-04-27T01:07:21 < kakimir> I knew you couldn't help it
2019-04-27T01:07:40 < kakimir> now it's movies time maybe
2019-04-27T01:07:47 < Steffanx> Sleepy time
2019-04-27T01:08:35 < kakimir> yeas time to start phasing out
2019-04-27T01:08:40 < zyp> I bought some wedges fro splitting rocks today, shit's fucking neat
2019-04-27T01:08:41 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/tMj9x.jpg
2019-04-27T01:08:57 < kakimir> shiet zyp is splitting baserock
2019-04-27T01:09:25 < zyp> but this old gasoline drill I bought for drilling the holes aren't super cooperative
2019-04-27T01:09:52 < zyp> paid almost nothing for it, so that's not really a surprise :p
2019-04-27T01:10:21 < Steffanx> Red wire is a not so secret tripwire?
2019-04-27T01:11:10 < zyp> it's for marking where the wall comes
2019-04-27T01:11:30 < Steffanx> Im glad its mainly clay in the ground here 
2019-04-27T01:11:38 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/IC58J.jpg
2019-04-27T01:12:37 < Thorn> kakimir: bx & interrupt entry copy the LSB of an address to the CPSR.T bit
2019-04-27T01:12:37 < kakimir> what are integers in tcl? just integers?
2019-04-27T01:12:52 < Thorn> so that's the name I guess: thumb bit
2019-04-27T01:13:00 < kakimir> if I -1 from 0
2019-04-27T01:13:25 < kakimir> it doesn't like overflow but becomes -1 right
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2019-04-27T01:20:19 < ds2> those wedges look just like wood splitting ones
2019-04-27T01:21:01 < kakimir> are you consuming your excess SISU to that rock zyp?
2019-04-27T01:21:15 < zyp> SISU?
2019-04-27T01:21:54 < kakimir> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu
2019-04-27T01:22:40 < zyp> haha
2019-04-27T01:22:56 < zyp> it wasn't really that hard
2019-04-27T01:23:47 < zyp> I don't think splitting that rock took me more than a minute of knocking on the wedges
2019-04-27T01:24:14 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3hzB3.jpg <- also this one
2019-04-27T01:24:19 < ds2> zyp: how big of a sledge did you use?
2019-04-27T01:24:20 < kakimir> "PERKELEEE!! I will not rest until I have split this bedrock.. even if it kills me"
2019-04-27T01:25:02 < zyp> ds2, IIRC it's 2kg, sort of a hybrid between a hammer and a sledge
2019-04-27T01:25:59 < ds2> zyp: have you see the ancient rock splitting stuff with a wooden wedge?
2019-04-27T01:26:35 < zyp> don't think so, but I've seen people using this kind of wedges for pretty huge stuff
2019-04-27T01:26:40 < ds2> rather then driving it in, the use hot water to expand the wood
2019-04-27T01:26:50 < zyp> oh, haha
2019-04-27T01:27:15 < zyp> it's apparently also common here to use expanding concrete
2019-04-27T01:27:40 < zyp> but I figured I'd try wedges first
2019-04-27T01:28:07 < kakimir> how do I control evaluation order in tcl?
2019-04-27T01:28:22 < kakimir> to say in if condition
2019-04-27T01:29:05 < kakimir> just curly bracket it or something?
2019-04-27T01:29:50 < kakimir> I better join #tcl
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2019-04-27T01:33:24 < catphish> why no stm32 through hole? :(
2019-04-27T01:33:52 < catphish> nice DIP, integrated bypass caps, everyone happy?
2019-04-27T01:35:08 < catphish> i guess you can just buy a module
2019-04-27T01:37:11 < Thorn> sounds like that ardweeno mini crap
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2019-04-27T01:45:38 < kakimir> so.. cortex m on dip package.. what is the most obscure one?
2019-04-27T01:48:36 < mawk> I saw one
2019-04-27T01:48:42 < mawk> but out of stock everywhere last time I check
2019-04-27T01:48:47 < mawk> it's a lpc something, cortex 0
2019-04-27T01:48:50 < mawk> m0
2019-04-27T01:50:48 < ds2> lpc8xx family
2019-04-27T01:50:54 < ds2> discontinueed in dip
2019-04-27T01:51:06 < ds2> these days I don't see the point of dip
2019-04-27T01:51:16 < ds2> SOIC is so much nicer
2019-04-27T01:55:16 < specing> We need a SOIC solderless breadboard
2019-04-27T01:56:43 < mawk> it would be a hit if you sell this
2019-04-27T01:56:47 < mawk> with a soic clip in the middle
2019-04-27T02:00:05 < specing> no, soic that can be placed anywhere on the board
2019-04-27T02:00:28 < specing> like dip
2019-04-27T02:02:22 < ds2> if you insist on messing with a breadboard, then a breakout board....
2019-04-27T02:02:43 < ds2> solderless breadboards are more trouble then they are worth
2019-04-27T02:07:22 < ds2> anyone else wasted hours on a loose connection?
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2019-04-27T02:09:14 < Cracki> only ever when I used blank copper wires
2019-04-27T02:09:20 < Cracki> those rust so easily
2019-04-27T02:10:58 < Cracki> my biggest complaint about breadboards is if they're too cheap, the spring clamps are either bent, not properly aligned, or not chamfered enough to part for common pin strips
2019-04-27T02:11:29 < Cracki> some forceful in-and-out helps
2019-04-27T02:15:03 < Cracki> it's basically lego. not for commercial use, but every engineer grew up with it
2019-04-27T03:00:56 < ds2> also gets frustrated with it
2019-04-27T03:20:28 < Thorn> type C is pretty expensive even in lcsc, $0.17-$0.25-... qty 10
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2019-04-27T04:26:29 < karlp> I love your pricing evaluations
2019-04-27T04:26:55 < karlp> I was looking at things for like ~8-9$ in 100s today and going, "hmm, you know, that's actually goign to save money, not bad really"
2019-04-27T04:30:03 < Thorn> what's the difference between flat li-po batteries like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-2-4-Pcs-High-Power-Rechargeable-3-7v-2200mAh-306080-Lithium-Recharge-Battery-3-7/32927658100.html and 18650?
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2019-04-27T04:37:09 < aandrew> ds2: 100% agreed on the solderless breadboards being crap. used so many of them and developed circuit "patterns" that avoided the shitty parts of the boards I had
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2019-04-27T05:10:19 < englishman> yeah Thorn typeC is more expensive no doubt about it
2019-04-27T05:10:30 < englishman> its also a much better connector
2019-04-27T05:10:50 < englishman> the wurth one im getting is like $4
2019-04-27T05:10:51 < Thorn> looks like the cheapset ones don't have data lines at all, just Vbus, gnd and CC
2019-04-27T05:11:14 < englishman> for lipo vs. liion there are shitloads of differences
2019-04-27T05:11:43 < englishman> as you would expect from decades of battery research
2019-04-27T05:12:16 < englishman> i shorted a 18650 with tweezers yesterday and it completely blew apart the tweezers
2019-04-27T05:12:41 < Thorn> nice
2019-04-27T05:13:12 < englishman> thorn as i understand it russia requires IEC 62133 on all batteries?
2019-04-27T05:15:10 < Thorn> you mean for import?
2019-04-27T05:16:15 < englishman> either import, or to be able to sell on the russian market, i just had a look at it today
2019-04-27T05:21:53 < Thorn> possibly. I found a 2009 government decree to this effect
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2019-04-27T06:01:21 < Thorn> >C++ Templates, Complete Guide
2019-04-27T06:01:24 < Thorn> just 2600 pages
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2019-04-27T06:21:18 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone know how to get Altium to show U1, R1, C1 and so on instead of .Designator in PCB view?
2019-04-27T06:21:42 < ColdKeyboard> Can't recall how to get that working. On assembly drawing it shows correct name but in PCB designer it doesn't
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2019-04-27T07:01:45 < englishman> hmm, chinese bought nexperia
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2019-04-27T07:08:57 < Thorn> https://i.imgur.com/tjmGAwP.png
2019-04-27T07:09:19 < rajkosto> who made the castellated model
2019-04-27T07:10:29 < Thorn> i got it from the net
2019-04-27T07:10:44 < rajkosto> i would like to know how to export everything nicely with traces and everything
2019-04-27T07:10:49 < rajkosto> from altium to altium footprint
2019-04-27T07:11:44 < Thorn> iirc you can import an altium project into solidworks pcb
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2019-04-27T08:00:04 < rajkosto> where lolrence ? https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-04-27_06-59-53_yr22ZQ2qY.png
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2019-04-27T09:17:34 < dongs> ColdKeyboard: what are you talking about
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2019-04-27T12:46:11 < Steffanx> rajkosto: try ##stm32-offtopic hes there
2019-04-27T12:46:34 < Steffanx> He could be here, but he gave up i guess
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2019-04-27T13:11:35 < karlp> rajkosto: in kicad, you just make a dummy pcb project then save it's 3d model. works nicely.
2019-04-27T13:11:47 < rajkosto> in kicad, you cant choose which vias to tent and which not to
2019-04-27T13:12:00 < karlp> one would presume pro sw would be equally pro?
2019-04-27T13:13:26 < rajkosto> i can export a 3d model that looks like his btw
2019-04-27T13:13:32 < rajkosto> but you cant have traces or silk on it
2019-04-27T13:13:40 < rajkosto> its just green + 3d 
2019-04-27T13:14:03 < rajkosto> i havent tried multi-pcb projects yet seem super cumbersome
2019-04-27T13:26:54 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zpv6u5vCJ4 tales from inside Commodore
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2019-04-27T13:31:00 < Thorn> what the fuck is "chip-on-glass dielectric"? https://www.edn.com/Home/PrintView?contentItemId=4314401
2019-04-27T13:31:13 < Thorn> did they confuse C0G with COG?
2019-04-27T13:33:59 < rajkosto> i mean its COG
2019-04-27T13:34:02 < rajkosto> glass is a dielectric
2019-04-27T13:35:02 < Thorn> C0G is COG?
2019-04-27T13:35:15 < rajkosto> chip on glass
2019-04-27T13:35:32 < rajkosto> oh now i see
2019-04-27T13:35:41 < rajkosto> they searched and replaced C0G with "Chip-on-glass" to pad it out
2019-04-27T13:36:45 < Thorn> but those are 2 different things, aren't they?
2019-04-27T13:38:59 < rajkosto> close enough
2019-04-27T13:39:03 < rajkosto> in the acronym
2019-04-27T13:39:16 < rajkosto> maybe it was even automated by whoever was "proofreading" it
2019-04-27T13:40:23 < rajkosto> right click -> replace acronym
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2019-04-27T15:01:47 < bitmask> heyo
2019-04-27T15:30:51 < bitmask> bow chika mwow mwow
2019-04-27T15:33:09 < kakimir> hello bubba
2019-04-27T15:43:52 < bitmask> how goes it
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2019-04-27T15:45:38 < bitmask> woops
2019-04-27T15:45:41 < bitmask> I wanna try getting into simulations, what should I go with? ltspice?
2019-04-27T15:54:39 < bitmask> ugh ltspice for mac blows
2019-04-27T16:09:51 < mawk> pen and paper
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2019-04-27T17:03:11 < kakimir> hey hey hey
2019-04-27T17:04:42 < kakimir> I want my debugger to execute stuff
2019-04-27T17:04:46 < kakimir> on target
2019-04-27T17:04:53 < kakimir> walk me thru it
2019-04-27T17:05:07 < kakimir> let's concider I have reset halted the target
2019-04-27T17:05:31 < kakimir> I want to call rom function
2019-04-27T17:06:13 < kakimir> would you do a small piece of program ending to breakpoint instruction uploaded to target ram?
2019-04-27T17:14:56 < mawk> you mean you want to execute single instructions ?
2019-04-27T17:14:58 < mawk> and that's it ?
2019-04-27T17:15:17 < mawk> meaningful instructions would be variable set, call or jump
2019-04-27T17:15:21 < mawk> gdb can do all three already
2019-04-27T17:23:16 < kakimir> I want to execute a rom function
2019-04-27T17:23:34 < kakimir> parameter for it should be uploaded by debugger
2019-04-27T17:28:10 < kakimir> I need to also know when it returns
2019-04-27T17:31:22 < mawk> well gdb in halt state can call functions
2019-04-27T17:31:24 < mawk> C functions at least
2019-04-27T17:31:34 < mawk> for parameters I don't know
2019-04-27T17:32:24 < mawk> just upload them above heap
2019-04-27T17:32:28 < mawk> and below stack top
2019-04-27T17:33:27 < kakimir> how do I know when it returns?
2019-04-27T17:34:57 < mawk> when gdb displays prompt again I think
2019-04-27T17:37:36 < kakimir> so it returns back to halt
2019-04-27T17:38:19 < kakimir> could you show me documentation related to this?
2019-04-27T17:38:57 < Thorn> type c webinar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1OiQoyjDOo
2019-04-27T17:42:33 < mawk> it's the call command kakimir 
2019-04-27T17:43:22 < mawk> https://sourceware.org/gdb/onlinedocs/gdb/Calling.html
2019-04-27T17:43:55 < mawk> also kakimir if you have no debug symbols and only an address you cast the address to function pointer
2019-04-27T17:44:20 < mawk> (also you can use print instead of call, call is just convenience about not displaying void values)
2019-04-27T17:45:06 < mawk> print ((int (*)(int, int))0xDEADBEEF)(41, 42)
2019-04-27T17:45:19 < mawk> to call a function int unknown(int a, int b); located at 0xDEADBEEF
2019-04-27T17:45:26 < mawk> apparently gdb handles arguments allocation by itself
2019-04-27T17:48:41 < kakimir> https://github.com/PromyLOPh/xmclib/blob/master/CMSIS/Infineon/XMC1100_series/Include/XMC1000_RomFunctionTable.h#L169
2019-04-27T17:50:16 < mawk> ok so you do p ((uint32_t (*)(uint16_t))(*(void *)ROM_FUNCTION_TABLE_START + 0x08U))(argument_goes_here)
2019-04-27T17:50:19 < mawk> should work
2019-04-27T17:51:12 < mawk> so simply: p (*(uint32_t (**)(uint16_t))0x108)(argument_goes_here)
2019-04-27T17:52:50 < kakimir> what should I do with that line?
2019-04-27T17:52:51 < kakimir> p?
2019-04-27T17:53:31 < mawk> it's a command
2019-04-27T17:53:32 < mawk> p is print
2019-04-27T17:53:37 < mawk> it's to call the function
2019-04-27T17:53:39 < mawk> and display the result
2019-04-27T17:54:01 < kakimir> I think I will do a procedure in a script
2019-04-27T17:54:10 < mawk> yeah it's fine
2019-04-27T17:54:18 < mawk> you'll do this often ?
2019-04-27T17:54:29 < kakimir> not that much
2019-04-27T17:54:45 < kakimir> but I think is logical as BMI is key feature / nuisance of the xmc1100
2019-04-27T17:57:42 < kakimir> what does da debugger server do when that is called?
2019-04-27T17:57:48 < kakimir> in mcu
2019-04-27T17:57:57 < kakimir> in detail
2019-04-27T17:58:05 < mawk> you're using stlink ?
2019-04-27T17:58:10 < kakimir> jlink
2019-04-27T17:58:18 < mawk> ah yeah well doesn't matter anyway
2019-04-27T17:58:25 < kakimir> it doesn't
2019-04-27T17:58:36 < mawk> well using the SW interface it can execute things on the processor
2019-04-27T17:58:48 < mawk> I don't know the details of SW but that's the thing to google
2019-04-27T17:58:57 < kakimir> sw?
2019-04-27T17:59:01 < mawk> serial wire
2019-04-27T17:59:06 < mawk> it's the debug protocol
2019-04-27T17:59:09 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-27T17:59:33 < kakimir> it has something to do with the debugging transport layer?
2019-04-27T18:00:08 < mawk> what do you mean ?
2019-04-27T18:00:14 < mawk> gdb is contacting the core using serial wire
2019-04-27T18:00:18 < mawk> integral part of the MCU
2019-04-27T18:00:24 < mawk> that's how it executes processor instructions
2019-04-27T18:01:18 < kakimir> yes it's the transport
2019-04-27T18:03:31 < mawk> let me search the docs
2019-04-27T18:04:06 < kakimir> it would help if I knew names of procedures etc. in openocd that are involved to call a function on target
2019-04-27T18:05:37 < kakimir> I'm doing a target script
2019-04-27T18:06:19 < mawk> it's in gdb not openocd
2019-04-27T18:06:27 < kakimir> ye
2019-04-27T18:06:30 < mawk> dunno if you can do it in openocd
2019-04-27T18:07:12 < kakimir> I wonder if that thing is implemented server or client side
2019-04-27T18:07:25 < mawk> by server you mean mcu ?
2019-04-27T18:07:40 < mawk> it's gdb that does the actions
2019-04-27T18:07:52 < mawk> it loads the stack, the instruction pointer
2019-04-27T18:08:03 < mawk> it does the call, let a breakpoint on function exit, etc
2019-04-27T18:08:06 < mawk> that's how I'd do it
2019-04-27T18:08:18 < mawk> it's a high level thing it won't be an openocd primitive
2019-04-27T18:08:23 < mawk> but maybe there is a helper to do it but I doubt it
2019-04-27T18:08:27 < mawk> it's purely a gdb thing
2019-04-27T18:08:40 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-27T18:09:35 < kakimir> sorry I didn't specify propperly what I wanted
2019-04-27T18:22:40 < kakimir> https://paste.debian.net/hidden/80355aaf/ here is the script
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2019-04-27T18:23:15 < kakimir> before adding bmi procedures
2019-04-27T18:23:39 < mawk> yes
2019-04-27T18:23:47 < mawk> you could look at the communication between openocd and gdb server
2019-04-27T18:23:53 < mawk> to see if you can do it in pure tcl
2019-04-27T18:25:05 < mawk> but my guess is that it'll be hard
2019-04-27T18:25:12 < mawk> to a gdb script instead and call it from tcl maybe
2019-04-27T18:25:24 < karlp> I'm still not sure whether kaks is misisng something fundamental, or whether I never want to touch xmc1k stuff.
2019-04-27T18:25:30 < mawk> lol
2019-04-27T18:28:53 < kakimir> I miss all the fundamentals
2019-04-27T18:30:38 < kakimir> like how context switching works
2019-04-27T18:35:03 < mawk> on your mcu ? 
2019-04-27T18:35:38 < mawk> in general it could be a timer interrupt every ms or something
2019-04-27T18:36:09 < mawk> checking if current task exceeded its time slot, and if it's the case save the local variable frame and registers
2019-04-27T18:36:14 < mawk> and swap the stack for a new one
2019-04-27T18:36:38 < kakimir> Return status - only upon error, if OK the procedure triggers a reset respectively does
2019-04-27T18:36:40 < mawk> on MMU systems you swap the page tables
2019-04-27T18:36:41 < kakimir> not return to calling routine
2019-04-27T18:37:14 < mawk> I don't understand what you just said
2019-04-27T18:39:51 < invzim> hope it's not a mistake, fedex just gave me great rates :)
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2019-04-27T19:11:59 < zyp> karlp, IMO both
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2019-04-27T19:30:47 < zyp> invzim, how do you do shipping labels with fedex or dhl?
2019-04-27T19:32:13 < karlp> hrm, power symbols are global in kicad, and I've used GND, GNDA and GNDD all in the hotzone.  need to use "another" one for the isolated side.
2019-04-27T19:33:06 < zyp> ISOGND?
2019-04-27T19:33:11 < zyp> or GND_ISO
2019-04-27T19:33:23 < karlp> yeahh, but as far as I can tell, I can't make up my own names for these ones.
2019-04-27T19:33:33 < karlp> GND_ISO is what my heirarchical sheet label is called.
2019-04-27T19:33:43  * karlp pokes it further, sees what happens.
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2019-04-27T19:36:07 < englishman> kakimir: that commodore video was really good, thanks
2019-04-27T19:36:55 < englishman> zyp, isn't it the same worldwide, log in to your thing and enter stuff
2019-04-27T19:37:05 < englishman> then print
2019-04-27T19:37:17 < zyp> dunno, I've never done it
2019-04-27T19:37:28 < zyp> but I mean, I would assume something like that
2019-04-27T19:37:43 < karlp> I wonder if it matters much how I put my own pins on a pcie 1x connector.  if I should even _consider_ what the standard pins are?
2019-04-27T19:37:51 < englishman> fedex I just had to make an account, but don't get great discounts. DHL I had to meet with someone but they give me amazing rates
2019-04-27T19:37:53 < karlp> there's longer/shorter ones right?
2019-04-27T19:37:58 < zyp> karlp, what signals are you gonna run?
2019-04-27T19:39:21 < karlp> SPI, uart, a few gpios, and probaly two voltages, likely usb.
2019-04-27T19:39:42 < karlp> I can pðrobably makkke all the grounds line up, but not sure if that's meaningful
2019-04-27T19:40:16 < zyp> I wouldn't bother
2019-04-27T19:40:43 < karlp> yeah, I can't see anyone plugging my card into a pc motherboard, where it might blow up from getting 12V on wrong pins or anything.
2019-04-27T19:41:48 < zyp> I'd rather put some thought into future expansion
2019-04-27T19:42:37 < karlp> might end up with ethernet on it,
2019-04-27T19:42:49 < karlp> it's just a cheap right angle board2board.
2019-04-27T19:43:02 < zyp> yeah, I remember you talked about it before
2019-04-27T19:43:19 < karlp> back on it again, had a couple of months on other stuff :)
2019-04-27T19:43:39 < zyp> but if you design it modular now, you could later add features to one board without redesigning the other
2019-04-27T19:43:50 < karlp> yeah, that's the plan :)
2019-04-27T19:44:36 < karlp> so I'll probably _assign_ all the pins, just not sure if the _placement_ of them matters at all.
2019-04-27T19:49:51 < zyp> nah
2019-04-27T19:50:22 < zyp> if you've got anything highspeed or noisy or analog or whatever, interleave grounds, but otherwise I figure it doesn't matter much
2019-04-27T19:57:48 < karlp> most niggle concern is probably which side is meant to provide/consume which voltages.
2019-04-27T19:57:50 < kakimir> englishman: guy has zero chill
2019-04-27T19:58:10 < kakimir> they lock the lab door -> go thru ceiling
2019-04-27T19:58:34 < kakimir> they lock the lab door -> punch hole in the wall and open the lock thru that hole
2019-04-27T19:58:36 < englishman> well that's the kind of big swinging dick you need to build a computer in 5 months
2019-04-27T19:59:18 < kakimir> :o
2019-04-27T20:00:03 < qyx> aren't you going to run AC over 
2019-04-27T20:00:12 < qyx> pci-e karlp?
2019-04-27T20:01:19 < karlp> noooo.
2019-04-27T20:01:24 < kakimir> some management dick hogs the rom and delays the project -> yet again go thru ceiling and steal the rom back, finish the rom before he even notices it's gone
2019-04-27T20:02:13 < kakimir> and call him a liar for claiming he is working on it
2019-04-27T20:03:16 < kakimir> walls and doors didn't stop the guy
2019-04-27T20:11:01 < qyx> what is a rom?
2019-04-27T20:12:10 < karlp> bah, can't copy/paste from a different kicad instance.
2019-04-27T20:13:42 < englishman> qyx: in this case, the font rom for commodore 128
2019-04-27T20:14:17 < englishman> kakimir>	
2019-04-27T20:14:17 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zpv6u5vCJ4 tales from inside Commodore
2019-04-27T20:14:18 < englishman> reference
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2019-04-27T20:51:16 < specing> kakimir: who is the 'huy'?
2019-04-27T20:51:26 < kakimir> gui in the video
2019-04-27T20:52:19 < kakimir> went to commodore and was generally absolute boss there
2019-04-27T20:52:38 < kakimir> in terms of system design
2019-04-27T20:53:09 < kakimir> and bodging and workarounding shiet in snap of fingers
2019-04-27T20:56:07 < englishman> https://dlidirect.com/products/atomic-pi
2019-04-27T20:57:25 < englishman> dual band ac
2019-04-27T20:57:27 < englishman> gigabit
2019-04-27T20:57:29 < englishman> x86
2019-04-27T20:58:28 < kakimir> and generally quite cheap
2019-04-27T20:59:21 < englishman> yes
2019-04-27T20:59:30 < englishman> ubuntu, debian images supplied, or install windows
2019-04-27T21:00:13 < kakimir> where is datasheet?
2019-04-27T21:00:22 < kakimir> oh there
2019-04-27T21:06:51 < kakimir> kinda datasheet
2019-04-27T21:07:03 < kakimir> looks good but looks like a stove
2019-04-27T21:08:36 < englishman> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvermont#Erratum
2019-04-27T21:08:48 < englishman> could be cheap as shit because intel knows they will die after 12-18 months?
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2019-04-27T21:12:06 < kakimir> any arm based with dual AC?
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2019-04-27T21:21:00 < Steffanx> No sata -_-
2019-04-27T21:25:10 < kakimir> I only need SD card
2019-04-27T21:25:47 < kakimir> when you buy "pi" with sata don't you concider there is actually mini-itx boards available
2019-04-27T21:30:50 < Steffanx> but isnt esp32 all you need englishman?
2019-04-27T21:36:42 < qyx> o bevause miniitx is huge
2019-04-27T21:36:57 < qyx> *no, because
2019-04-27T21:37:01 < fenugrec> esp32, isn't the one with a CAN peripheral that isn't even described in the docs
2019-04-27T21:37:06 < kakimir> I bet there is standard board even smaller than that
2019-04-27T21:37:14 < kakimir> but cpu integration is then required
2019-04-27T21:37:35 < kakimir> all the slim clients etc. public clients
2019-04-27T21:37:54 < kakimir> network controlled ad displays
2019-04-27T21:38:05 < kakimir> many of them have pi thought
2019-04-27T21:38:07 < kakimir> though
2019-04-27T21:57:33 < Steffanx> i no nothing about esp32 fenugrec. i only know mr englishman claims to like em
2019-04-27T22:08:27 < marble_visions> mawk: like what?
2019-04-27T22:38:54 < jpa-> fenugrec: is there any ESP32 peripheral that's properly described in docs?
2019-04-27T22:41:53 < englishman> Steffanx: esp32 is pretty great yeah.
2019-04-27T22:42:22 < Steffanx> does it do usb pd et all?
2019-04-27T22:42:35 < englishman> thankfully no. it has wireless instead of all that aids 
2019-04-27T22:43:24 < Steffanx> :)
2019-04-27T22:44:26 < jpa-> wireless power delivery for the wins
2019-04-27T22:48:05 < Thorn> wireless charging too?
2019-04-27T22:49:05 < englishman> really how much effort is needed to give a stm32 wifi and an IP and host some API with Mat
2019-04-27T22:49:12 < englishman> mqtt or the like
2019-04-27T22:49:15 < englishman> and a website
2019-04-27T22:49:29 < englishman> in esp32 and Arduino IDE it's like 3 lines
2019-04-27T22:49:35 < Steffanx> arduino ide.
2019-04-27T22:49:42 < englishman> and zero external components
2019-04-27T22:49:53 < englishman> Besides a cap, maybe
2019-04-27T22:50:14 < englishman> yes ide. as in, not a makefail
2019-04-27T22:50:38 < Steffanx> its more like a basic text editor.
2019-04-27T22:50:41 < englishman> even works on lunix and windows without effort.
2019-04-27T22:50:43 < mawk> the cube ide marble_visions 
2019-04-27T22:50:59 < Steffanx> + some command to build some code, and flash it
2019-04-27T22:51:20 < Steffanx> Hi englishman. How is your day?
2019-04-27T22:51:33 < englishman> as opposed to typing in those "commands" yourself into a "command line" like some kind of retro hacker from a movie
2019-04-27T22:52:03 < englishman> going great steffy, had a great day
2019-04-27T22:52:07 < englishman> how about yourself
2019-04-27T22:52:23 < Steffanx> Yes it was ok. Boring kingsday + rain
2019-04-27T22:52:39 < Steffanx> We're supposed to celebrate that day, or something
2019-04-27T22:52:52 < englishman> you still have a monarchy?
2019-04-27T22:53:15 < mawk> you were all too weak to behead the tyrans
2019-04-27T22:54:30 < Steffanx> Nah, they're just some monkeys in some golden carriage or walking on the street once in a while
2019-04-27T22:54:35 < Steffanx> doing selfies with people.
2019-04-27T22:54:50 < Steffanx> Getting free money from the state.
2019-04-27T22:54:59 < Steffanx> but that's about it
2019-04-27T22:56:26 < Steffanx> Let's see how many packages arrow will send the items in this time. And how much "multiple items"-fee i'll be charged this time.
2019-04-27T23:00:10 < Thorn> Kiset = 890AΩ
2019-04-27T23:00:36 < Steffanx> ty
2019-04-27T23:00:48 < englishman> the palaces and staff of the king of Morocco cost more than $1m usd per day
2019-04-27T23:00:58 < Steffanx> lol
2019-04-27T23:01:01 < englishman> pretty old school country
2019-04-27T23:01:33 < englishman> he also owns all the construction companies, telecom, auto manufacturers and importers, etc etc
2019-04-27T23:01:52 < englishman> yet somehow cellular is still 1/100 the price it is here
2019-04-27T23:02:18 < mawk> conclusion, monarchy is good
2019-04-27T23:03:13 < Thorn> Kilim = 1550AΩ
2019-04-27T23:03:36 < Steffanx> imagine using a text editor as clipboard Thorn
2019-04-27T23:04:00 < Steffanx> How do you call it in french mawk? I missed the French 101 today.
2019-04-27T23:04:23 < Thorn> I'm copying to altium via google remote desktop, it doesn't like text editors for some reason. only irc
2019-04-27T23:06:17 < mawk> lol Steffanx 
2019-04-27T23:06:19 < mawk> call what ?
2019-04-27T23:06:35 < mawk> many words are transparent, just mess a bit with the end letters and you've got french
2019-04-27T23:06:47 < mawk> now you can speak love to french ladies
2019-04-27T23:06:51 < Steffanx> lol idk. You usually just say "in french we call it" or "in french that means" randomnly.
2019-04-27T23:07:21 < mawk> :(
2019-04-27T23:07:37 < Steffanx> hah
2019-04-27T23:07:38 < mawk> there's always a reason
2019-04-27T23:08:06 < Steffanx> Hows the dutch 101 getting along?
2019-04-27T23:08:30 < mawk> I have no time
2019-04-27T23:08:36 < mawk> but my gf is making progress
2019-04-27T23:09:14 < Steffanx> better watch her or she's be running of with tctw_ soon :P
2019-04-27T23:10:11 < Steffanx> *will be
2019-04-27T23:11:02 < mawk> :(
2019-04-27T23:11:30 < englishman> I learned a word yesterday mawk
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2019-04-27T23:11:36 < englishman> péricliter
2019-04-27T23:11:37 < mawk> a dirty word ?
2019-04-27T23:11:38 < mawk> ah
2019-04-27T23:11:40 < mawk> nice
2019-04-27T23:11:50 < englishman> yeah v useful to describe many things
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2019-04-27T23:12:10 < mawk> you know a word that likely 90% of french don't know
2019-04-27T23:12:11 < mawk> congrats
2019-04-27T23:12:29 < mawk> or would spell it wrong
2019-04-27T23:12:35 < Steffanx> Go to the dogs?!
2019-04-27T23:12:53 < englishman> pretty much
2019-04-27T23:13:19 < mawk> decay, decline
2019-04-27T23:16:23 < jadew`> sup
2019-04-27T23:16:34 < Steffanx> French 101
2019-04-27T23:16:40 < jadew`> is it easter anywhere else?
2019-04-27T23:16:45 < mawk> yes
2019-04-27T23:16:51 < Steffanx> Not anymore no.
2019-04-27T23:17:03 < jadew`> you already had easter?
2019-04-27T23:17:04 < mawk> vacation day monday
2019-04-27T23:17:11 < jadew`> yep, same here
2019-04-27T23:17:22 < Steffanx> We had it last week...
2019-04-27T23:17:24 < jadew`> are the french orthodox?
2019-04-27T23:17:48 < Steffanx> https://www.google.com/search?q=easter+2019 what does it say?
2019-04-27T23:18:12 < mawk> no catholic
2019-04-27T23:18:30 < mawk> there's easter, then the easter week, then the easter week-end
2019-04-27T23:18:33 < jadew`> it says: "Orthodox Easter 2019: Why are there two Easters?"
2019-04-27T23:18:40 < Steffanx> ah
2019-04-27T23:18:50 < mawk> and since the easter weekend is on weekend and we don't want to work we picked the monday after it for vacation day
2019-04-27T23:19:11 < Steffanx> Same here, but it this weeks monday
2019-04-27T23:19:38 < Steffanx> it was*
2019-04-27T23:20:02 < jadew`> went on a mini vacation last weekend
2019-04-27T23:20:09 < jadew`> visited a bunch of monasteries
2019-04-27T23:20:54 < jadew`> it's interesting to see how the paintings are different
2019-04-27T23:21:34 < Steffanx> Did you set one on fire too?
2019-04-27T23:22:16 < jadew`> heh, no, but my son managed to step on the tombstone of a king
2019-04-27T23:22:44 < mawk> he was struck by godly lightning ?
2019-04-27T23:23:25 < jadew`> heh, no, he didn't know what he did, I just told him to move his foot
2019-04-27T23:23:28 < Steffanx> Better watch indiana jones or something first next time
2019-04-27T23:23:41 < jadew`> didn't tell him there was a dead guy under that rock
2019-04-27T23:23:53 < Steffanx> wasnt that the only relevant information?
2019-04-27T23:23:56 < jadew`> (the tomb was inside a church)
2019-04-27T23:24:21 < jadew`> Steffanx, nah, lots of other interesting stuff to see
2019-04-27T23:24:34 < jadew`> I was explaining the paintings to him (to the best of my understanding)
2019-04-27T23:27:08 < mawk> that ST IDE is nice overall
2019-04-27T23:27:36 < mawk> eclipse-based, can use jlink or stlink or gdb server
2019-04-27T23:27:47 < jadew`> eclipse-based - lol
2019-04-27T23:27:55 < mawk> yeah it eats all my ram
2019-04-27T23:29:52 < Steffanx> All the 256MB?
2019-04-27T23:30:25 < englishman> yeah code composter is not that bad either. just the msp430 part
2019-04-27T23:30:51 < mawk> I have 8GiB
2019-04-27T23:32:34 < Steffanx> Code Composter is awful. At least for the C66xx dsp family
2019-04-27T23:33:15 < Steffanx> But thats mainly all the toolchain stuff
2019-04-27T23:33:22 < Steffanx> Due to*
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--- Day changed Sun Apr 28 2019
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2019-04-28T00:05:13 < Thorn> where are these joysticks used? I don't recall ever seeing them in a device https://lcsc.com/product-detail/5-way-Tactile-Switches_Korean-Hroparts-Elec-K1-5203UA-01_C92594.html
2019-04-28T00:06:51 < Cracki> simple dpads?
2019-04-28T00:07:44 < Cracki> with a plastic cap on, it's the equivalent to those rubber dpads on tv remotes
2019-04-28T00:08:11 < Thorn> yeah would be nice to find compatible caps too
2019-04-28T00:08:15 < zyp> those old mp3 players used to have those
2019-04-28T00:09:08 < Thorn> lol wikipedia autists compiled a list of all game consoles with d-pads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-pad
2019-04-28T00:09:29 < Cracki> very burgercentric list
2019-04-28T00:09:38 < qyx> anyone have a L4 pll setup for 80MHz? (libopencm3)
2019-04-28T00:10:49 < zyp> with usb?
2019-04-28T00:10:59 < zyp> why 80? is that max?
2019-04-28T00:11:54 < qyx> yes, max
2019-04-28T00:11:58 < qyx> oh I ofund something
2019-04-28T00:12:04 < qyx> https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-examples/blob/master/examples/stm32/l4/stm32l476g-disco/basics/basics.c
2019-04-28T00:12:04 < invzim> zyp: fedex/dhl you just print papers and stick them in a pouch
2019-04-28T00:13:06 < zyp> invzim, so you fill out a form to get a label that you print?
2019-04-28T00:20:35 < Steffanx> Thats how dhl works right?
2019-04-28T00:21:20 < qyx> it looks like codec2 encoding works on L4 (3200bps)
2019-04-28T00:21:33 < qyx> using PDM mic over SPI
2019-04-28T00:21:56 < qyx> although a bit slower than real-time :(
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2019-04-28T00:27:10 < karlp> englishman: word is that atomic pi is surpless from somewhere, and they've got about 5k of them, once they're gone, I imagine that's it, you won't get more at that price...
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2019-04-28T00:27:56 < qyx> I need to experiment with it more
2019-04-28T00:33:09 < Thorn> >In 1984, the Japanese company Epoch created a handheld game system called the Epoch Game Pocket Computer. It featured a D-pad, but it was not popular for its time and soon faded.
2019-04-28T00:33:22 < Thorn> lesson: a d-pad is not enough to be popular.
2019-04-28T00:35:33 < zyp> karlp, looking at the IO, that strongly suggests you're right
2019-04-28T00:35:50 < zyp> the breakout board seems to be ghettoed up with a bunch of jumper cables from it
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2019-04-28T00:47:59 < karlp> 8/36 pins for ground, 4/36 for 5V, 2/36 for 3v3, 2/36 for Vraw (12~24V).  reasonable? more 5V than needed? 
2019-04-28T00:48:31 < zyp> depends how much current you have on each
2019-04-28T00:48:34 < karlp> current design is like 2-3W max, but I guess more pins if we get silly and make more.
2019-04-28T00:48:57 < karlp> depends whether we would even try and reuse one half of the design anyway, or just think of this as a not very flex flex pcb
2019-04-28T00:49:06 < zyp> :)
2019-04-28T00:49:15 < karlp> I've still been tempted to just do it all as rigidflex,
2019-04-28T00:49:28 < karlp> but I think it makes too many moving parts at once for little me.
2019-04-28T00:49:48 < zyp> in terms of design or assembly or what?
2019-04-28T00:50:27 < karlp> making sure all parts work properly and are easily testable.
2019-04-28T00:50:42 < karlp> and that I can outsource portions of it...
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2019-04-28T01:17:42 < englishman> karlp: yeah something is fishy with that
2019-04-28T01:17:50 < englishman> definitely leftovers
2019-04-28T01:18:51 < englishman> oh you should definitely do rigidflex
2019-04-28T01:18:54 < zyp> also looks retarded
2019-04-28T01:19:04 < zyp> who puts everything but the power connector on the board?
2019-04-28T01:19:08 < englishman> think of all the money you will save with: 1) design time 2) sourcing 3) assembly 4) failures
2019-04-28T01:27:41 < englishman> check this shite out https://i.imgur.com/QjrPKqC.jpg
2019-04-28T01:34:10 < zyp> cool
2019-04-28T01:36:27 < zyp> looks expensive
2019-04-28T01:51:51 -!- Mangy_Dog [~Mangy_Dog@bcde5391.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-04-28T02:13:57 < Thorn> how do I measure SPL (sound pressure) with peak detection and <<1mA power consumption?
2019-04-28T02:39:27 < Cracki> need an adc?
2019-04-28T02:40:00 < Cracki> sounds like you want to build a microphone
2019-04-28T02:40:48 < Cracki> here's something with 5 mA https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/application-note/AN1991.pdf
2019-04-28T02:43:04 < Cracki> they use an IC meant for radio, for electric audio-frequency
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2019-04-28T03:00:07 < Thorn> why such complex circuit https://wiki.dfrobot.com/Gravity__Analog_Sound_Level_Meter_SKU_SEN0232
2019-04-28T03:04:50 < mawk> because it's a full arduino board with programmer and everything
2019-04-28T03:04:56 < mawk> so it needs support components
2019-04-28T03:04:57 < mawk> no ?
2019-04-28T03:05:13 < mawk> ah no I looked at the wrong diagram
2019-04-28T03:05:19 < mawk> it seemed odd lol
2019-04-28T03:05:37 < Thorn> it's got analog voltage output
2019-04-28T03:06:17 < mawk> it's computing dB values
2019-04-28T03:06:22 < mawk> it's logarithm of intensity
2019-04-28T03:06:33 < mawk> so it needs to compute a logarithm, so using some opamp circuits
2019-04-28T03:06:41 < mawk> which will probably need temperature compensation also
2019-04-28T03:23:08 < Cracki> I noticed that aliexpress lists but won't show detail of a bunch of items, depending on my IP... anyone notice that too? this one (breadboard) shows alright via vpn, not via german IP https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/1847415980.html
2019-04-28T03:23:30 < Cracki> (and also not when I'm logged in or have any cookies)
2019-04-28T03:25:33 < Cracki> disappears as soon as I pick EUR for currency, ok with SEK and others
2019-04-28T03:27:35 < Cracki> seems they hate germany now for some reason. even found a reddit thread on it.
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2019-04-28T03:48:00 < Cracki> their https://freight.aliexpress.com/ajaxFreightCalculateService.htm for some articles just times out when country=DE, responds promptly for anything else
2019-04-28T03:52:36 < dongs> fucking gayvidia jewtson lmao wat trash
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2019-04-28T05:15:59 < rajkosto> seems monitors with USB-C instead of DP ports have started to be created
2019-04-28T05:16:19 < rajkosto> they come with an adapter that combines DP and Power if you dont have USB-C on your gpu
2019-04-28T05:16:36 < rajkosto> dongs was leading the innovation train
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2019-04-28T06:06:14 < englishman> dongs: whats the raeg
2019-04-28T06:06:30 < englishman> rajkosto: usbC was developed literally for that
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2019-04-28T12:00:07 < qyx> Thorn: I used a PDM miuc with L4 exactly for that
2019-04-28T12:00:36 < qyx> it should be under 1mA
2019-04-28T12:07:13 < qyx> at 1V8
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2019-04-28T13:16:39 < marble_visions> mawk: download link is broken, i click on the verification link from the email st sent me, but download does not start
2019-04-28T13:16:56 < marble_visions> will try tomorrow
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2019-04-28T13:36:25 < rajkosto> thats normal
2019-04-28T13:36:45 < rajkosto> you have to click the bottom thing instead of clicking on the thing that wants you to verify your email again, its weird
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2019-04-28T14:10:26 < Sadale> I've just got my first soldering paste. Mechanic XG-50. :3
2019-04-28T14:10:36 < Sadale> I wonder if refrigeration is required after opening.
2019-04-28T14:11:28 < kakimir> it is recommended
2019-04-28T14:11:34 < kakimir> even before opening
2019-04-28T14:12:20 < kakimir> I have Easy print Sn62/Pb36/Ag2
2019-04-28T14:12:40 < Sadale> I see.
2019-04-28T14:12:55 < Sadale> The package of this thing doesn't say anything about refrigeration
2019-04-28T14:13:10 < Sadale> And I don't wanna put it into my food fridge :/
2019-04-28T14:13:28 < kakimir> just bag it and put it in there
2019-04-28T14:13:58 < Sadale> I've also thought about that.
2019-04-28T14:15:08 < Sadale> But still. I couldn't tell if the bag is well-sealed. And if someone mistaken it as food, that'd be bad.
2019-04-28T14:16:55 < Steffanx> buy a tiny fridge at the corner of the street?
2019-04-28T14:18:42 < kakimir> mistake it for a food
2019-04-28T14:18:59 < Steffanx> you dont know chinese food kakimir
2019-04-28T14:19:03 < Steffanx> they have weird stuff
2019-04-28T14:19:30 < kakimir> just write "not for human consumption"
2019-04-28T14:19:34 < Steffanx> could be a nice spread for bread
2019-04-28T14:20:14 < catphish> how often can one realistically fire interrupts?
2019-04-28T14:20:36 < zyp> every few hundred cycles if you don't wanna do anything else
2019-04-28T14:21:10 < zyp> I've done timer interrupt at 100kHz, on f401, works fine
2019-04-28T14:21:14 < catphish> sounds like what i want to do might ba a bit borderline then
2019-04-28T14:21:32 < Thorn> qyx: so no analog stuff at all, mic -> dfsdm peripheral?
2019-04-28T14:21:59 < Sadale> Steffanx, well, no space in Hong Kong.
2019-04-28T14:22:00 < Thorn> according to https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/corporate/company/divisional_presentation/group0/4e/47/6c/6d/b9/c6/44/1d/Luca_Spelgatti_SensorsExpo_006/files/Luca_Spelgatti_SensorsExpo_006.pdf/_jcr_content/translations/en.Luca_Spelgatti_SensorsExpo_006.pdf
2019-04-28T14:22:38 < Steffanx> no space Sadale?
2019-04-28T14:22:45 < Steffanx> Even a  mini desk fridge is too large?
2019-04-28T14:22:51 < Sadale> Steffanx, no space at apartment in Hong Kong. 
2019-04-28T14:23:13 < Sadale> Steffanx, it is. To give you an idea an average family of 3~5 would live in a 20~40m-sq apartment here.
2019-04-28T14:23:37 < Steffanx> So do you Sadale?
2019-04-28T14:23:39 < Sadale> In fact I do have the space. But it's just too much space to sacrifice :<
2019-04-28T14:23:39 < catphish> i may be trying to solve an already soled problem, i'm trying to receive a bit stream, i want it to sample a bit from a gpio at 500kHz
2019-04-28T14:23:49 < emeryth> catphish: 1MHz interrupt is possible on f4
2019-04-28T14:24:01 < catphish> i'm using a l4 at the moment
2019-04-28T14:24:04 < Sadale> If I haven't brought the mini fridge I could have used the space to something else. And fridge takes electricity
2019-04-28T14:24:13 < Steffanx> even this is too much? https://bookofjoe.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/09/30/p33889_500.jpg 
2019-04-28T14:24:27 < Sadale> oh wait
2019-04-28T14:24:33 < Sadale> Didn't know that it were that small
2019-04-28T14:24:53 < emeryth> catphish: why not use dma for sampling?
2019-04-28T14:25:53 < catphish> emeryth: how does that work? can it be tied to a timer to sample from GPIO -> SRAM with no CPU interrupt?
2019-04-28T14:26:02 < catphish> if so, that sounds like it might be what i want
2019-04-28T14:26:04 < emeryth> yes
2019-04-28T14:26:07 < jpa-> yeah, it can
2019-04-28T14:26:12 < Steffanx> ^
2019-04-28T14:26:16 < jpa-> but if it is just a single bit, SPI can be more efficient
2019-04-28T14:26:54 < catphish> it is just a single bit, i'd prefer to have it packed into bytes for me else i have to do it manually
2019-04-28T14:26:56 < jpa-> though DMA-from-GPIO can usually manage about cpu_freq/8 transfers reliably
2019-04-28T14:27:13 < jpa-> yeah, spi peripheral would handle the packing
2019-04-28T14:28:29 < catphish> the only other thing to consider is that i want to sync my clock to the incoming stream, so ideally i'd like to reset my timer to the middle of it cycle on ever rising edge
2019-04-28T14:29:59 < catphish> so rising edge happens, timer set to 50%, when timer reaches 100%, it samples (it'll obviously be high at that point) then the timer will remain in sync for however any binary zeros follow until the next rising edge when it can sync again
2019-04-28T14:30:37 < jpa-> yeah, timer inputs should manage that; but then you can't use SPI peripheral's internal baudrate generator, so either you have to connect timer output to SPI externally, or use DMA-from-GPIO that is triggered by the timer
2019-04-28T14:30:56 < kakimir> catphish: you usually resort in event logic if you want some simple process to repeat really fast
2019-04-28T14:31:11 < jpa-> catphish: event logic?
2019-04-28T14:31:20 < catphish> kakimir: yeah i was actually thinking instead of interrupts i could just poll the timer
2019-04-28T14:31:36 < catphish> but dma sounds even better
2019-04-28T14:32:15 < kakimir> I dont mean dma or polling anything
2019-04-28T14:32:23 < catphish> oh?
2019-04-28T14:32:48 < catphish> i was thinking disable interrupts, but monitor the interrupt flag of the timer with a busy loop
2019-04-28T14:33:13 < catphish> perhaps event logic mean something different?
2019-04-28T14:33:36 < kakimir> yes
2019-04-28T14:33:53 < kakimir> you configure peripherals to do some thing X when event Y happens
2019-04-28T14:34:06 < kakimir> it happens without involving core
2019-04-28T14:34:23 < kakimir> virtually instantly
2019-04-28T14:34:25 < Sadale> Steffanx, still I think such a refrigeration isn't worth it. I could just get a new paste. :P
2019-04-28T14:34:29 < catphish> well that's what i'd be thinking do do with DMA
2019-04-28T14:34:34 < Sadale> refrigerator*
2019-04-28T14:34:41 < catphish> timer fires DMA without interrupting the core
2019-04-28T14:36:43 < catphish> well thanks all, i think i'll look at DMA first, then i can control the timer correctly
2019-04-28T14:37:16 < catphish> seems like DMA will be good for transmitting too, which i also want to do
2019-04-28T14:37:42 < Steffanx> true Sadale
2019-04-28T14:37:57 < Sadale> And power consumption is also a cost :P
2019-04-28T14:38:50 < Steffanx> i dont know about living in hk, but .. sure.
2019-04-28T14:39:02 < zyp> catphish, so what are you doing anyway?
2019-04-28T14:39:15 < catphish> zyp: i'm making a floppy disk controller
2019-04-28T14:39:46 < catphish> want to receive a stream of pulses from the disk drive
2019-04-28T14:40:23 < zyp> pulses of what nature? what information will you be extracting from them?
2019-04-28T14:41:51 < catphish> "modified fm"
2019-04-28T14:42:56 < zyp> this is related to the period sampling you were talking about earlier?
2019-04-28T14:43:05 < catphish> yes, but i changed by mind about how to do it
2019-04-28T14:43:21 < catphish> previously i was going to measure the period between pulses
2019-04-28T14:43:34 < zyp> yeah? why not do that?
2019-04-28T14:43:52 < catphish> i've decided instead to read at fixed intervals, and simply record the binary state at each interval
2019-04-28T14:44:02 < zyp> why?
2019-04-28T14:44:22 < Sadale> It's really about the volume of soldering required. If it's small, it just isn't worth getting a mini refrigerator for that. :P
2019-04-28T14:44:33 < Sadale> Of course if I'm soldering a lot that'd be worth it
2019-04-28T14:45:05 < zyp> Sadale, stop being ridiculous and just put it in your normal fridge?
2019-04-28T14:45:13 < catphish> zyp: i think it's just a neater way to store the data, and more importantly, it doesn't exceed the capacity of the 2Mbaud i have available to send it back to the pc, or the ~100KB i have available to store it locally
2019-04-28T14:45:17 < Sadale> zyp, it's not happening =P
2019-04-28T14:46:42 < catphish> zyp: but i don't want to fully decode it, i want to store the raw magnetic (MFM) information
2019-04-28T14:47:38 < karlp> Sadale: just keep it in your normal fridge.
2019-04-28T14:47:56 < Sadale> too much risk.
2019-04-28T14:48:02 < zyp> risk of what?
2019-04-28T14:48:13 < zyp> catphish, I fail to see the benefit
2019-04-28T14:48:42 < catphish> of not decoding it?
2019-04-28T14:48:46 < zyp> if you want to keep a fixed timebase, I'd just store absolute pulse times rather than relative pulse times
2019-04-28T14:48:54 < zyp> not all the bits in between
2019-04-28T14:49:07 < catphish> zyp: the problem is simply storage capacity / rate
2019-04-28T14:49:22 < zyp> how so?
2019-04-28T14:49:36 < catphish> for absolute time, i'd be storing a 32 bit integer for every pulse
2019-04-28T14:49:55 < catphish> that's essentualy 4 *bytes* for every bit of information
2019-04-28T14:50:14 < karlp> Sadale: write "lead" on it. if people eat it, that's their fault.
2019-04-28T14:50:14 < zyp> depends what resolution you want
2019-04-28T14:50:36 < karlp> or buy lead free solder, then they'll just shit it out
2019-04-28T14:51:07 < catphish> well even at 16 bits, 2 bytes per bit is a lot of data, compared to 2 bits
2019-04-28T14:51:51 < zyp> sure, but your method won't store 2 bits
2019-04-28T14:52:03 < catphish> why not?
2019-04-28T14:52:20 < zyp> for every bit of information, your method would store a ton of 0s, then followed by a ton of 1s
2019-04-28T14:52:20 < Sadale> karlp, what if it get evaporates and got spreaded to other food by air?
2019-04-28T14:52:30 < zyp> unless I'm mistaking what you want to do
2019-04-28T14:52:37 < Sadale> Even after putting it into a bag, the bag would have holes :/
2019-04-28T14:52:43 < Sadale> And perhaps it may not get sealed properly
2019-04-28T14:53:38 < zyp> storing the raw input capture data is like applying RLE compression to data sampled at a fixed rate
2019-04-28T14:53:41 < englishman> Sadale: solder paste goes bad really fast especially that stuff.but you can always buy fresh paste
2019-04-28T14:54:08 < Sadale> englishman, oh. I see. So refrigeration is pretty much required. :(
2019-04-28T14:54:21 < Sadale> alright. USB fridge would be more doable than using food fridge.
2019-04-28T14:54:56 < zyp> Sadale, I think your worries are unfounded
2019-04-28T14:55:00 < catphish> each track of a floppy disk contains 100,000 bits of actual useable data, this is represented physically by 200,000 bits of "MFM", it's read in 0.2 seconds, so a "raw" bitrate of 1Mbps
2019-04-28T14:55:21 < englishman> more modern rohs pastes like gc10 don't need refrigeration which means you also don't have to wait for them to warm up. but probably too spendy for you
2019-04-28T14:55:26 < Sadale> zyp, well, just to stay on the safe side...
2019-04-28T14:56:02 < catphish> so my aim is to align my clock correctly to the incoming data, then sample 1-bit at 1Msps
2019-04-28T14:56:29 < zyp> Sadale, meh, you're gonna die anyway
2019-04-28T14:56:33 < Sadale> true
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2019-04-28T14:56:40 < catphish> so my resulting stream will be 1Mbps
2019-04-28T14:57:56 < karlp> Sadale: buy lead free paste, what health concern do you have left?
2019-04-28T14:58:50 < zyp> catphish, what's MFM by the way? something like manchester or biphase?
2019-04-28T14:59:02 < catphish> yes, similar
2019-04-28T14:59:21 < zyp> ah, okay
2019-04-28T14:59:25 < jly> the ancient disks?
2019-04-28T14:59:34 < zyp> how much memory do you have?
2019-04-28T14:59:56 < catphish> around 100KB in my l4
2019-04-28T15:01:28 < zyp> I'd pick a larger chip, make a 200k DMA buffer, do 8-bit input capture DMAed into that buffer, then run over the buffer and condense each byte into a bit
2019-04-28T15:01:48 < zyp> that way you don't have to worry about any clock sync bullshit
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2019-04-28T15:02:38 < catphish> i don't think it's possible to avoid the clock sync
2019-04-28T15:03:15 < catphish> unless you capture at a massively high sample rate, and worry about the sync later
2019-04-28T15:03:54 < zyp> that's the point of input capture
2019-04-28T15:04:03 < jpa-> Sadale: i use https://www.digikey.fi/product-detail/en/TS391SNL50/TS391SNL50-ND/7802219 which lasts pretty well in room temperature
2019-04-28T15:04:28 < catphish> zyp: you mean timing the distance between pulses in 8 bit?
2019-04-28T15:04:30 < zyp> you can think of input capture as sampling a signal really fast, and then only storing when it changes
2019-04-28T15:04:33 < jpa-> Sadale: but yeah, contamination risk from same fridge storage is pretty minimal unless someone really goes and eats the whole jar
2019-04-28T15:05:17 < catphish> if so, yes, that's definitely a possibility if i can find a chip with 200k of memory
2019-04-28T15:05:29 < jpa-> yeah, timer capture would work also, there is just more processing overhead than with timer sync + spi
2019-04-28T15:05:35 < jpa-> why so much memory?
2019-04-28T15:05:49 < jpa-> you could do it realtime, while DMA streams the next samples
2019-04-28T15:05:55 < catphish> by the way, here's a diagram that shows what the hell i'm talking about: http://www.pdp11gy.com/mfm/MFM-timing.jpg
2019-04-28T15:06:04 < zyp> jpa-, yeah, that's also true
2019-04-28T15:06:04 < jpa-> even a 72MHz stm32 could probably manage to process 1Mbps of that
2019-04-28T15:06:25 < catphish> ie how timing can be used to decide it
2019-04-28T15:06:45 < catphish> *decode it
2019-04-28T15:06:46 < zyp> just do input capture with circular DMA into a ringbuffer and consume it while it's being filled
2019-04-28T15:07:07 < catphish> zyp: by input capture, you're talkin about timing right
2019-04-28T15:07:11 < zyp> yes
2019-04-28T15:07:34 < zyp> by input capture, I mean the input capture mode of a timer, which captures the current count of the timer when an event occurs
2019-04-28T15:07:37 < catphish> the problem is that 1MB/s well exceeds what i can transmit by uart
2019-04-28T15:07:42 < catphish> (back to my PC)
2019-04-28T15:07:56 < zyp> why not usb? :)
2019-04-28T15:08:09 < catphish> zyp: mostly because i don't own a USB stm32
2019-04-28T15:08:14 < jpa-> isn't it 1Mbit, not 1MB? most usb-uarts can do that
2019-04-28T15:08:28 < zyp> also that
2019-04-28T15:08:37 < zyp> but usb is better :p
2019-04-28T15:08:43 < jpa-> yeah, i'd go for usb
2019-04-28T15:09:03 < catphish> jpa-: the data i'm trying to capture is 1Mbit/s, but to capture it using an 8-bit timer would require 1MByte/s
2019-04-28T15:09:11 < jpa-> though if you are lazy, you could just plug that waveform straight into a $10 FX2 logic analyzer and do everything on PC
2019-04-28T15:09:21 < jpa-> catphish: true
2019-04-28T15:09:34 < catphish> jpa-: interestingly i did that first, it works great
2019-04-28T15:10:07 < catphish> but it didn't provide me with a way to control the drive, or write data back
2019-04-28T15:10:30 < Steffanx> is this to record your guitar audio? :P
2019-04-28T15:10:39 < catphish> lol
2019-04-28T15:10:45 < catphish> slightly different project :)
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2019-04-28T15:11:28 < zyp> catphish, you don't have to transfer the timer data directly, just run a loop over the buffer and figure out whether each captured pulse returns a 0 or a 1
2019-04-28T15:11:34 < zyp> s/returns/represents/
2019-04-28T15:12:39 < zyp> also, I don't really understand the diagram you linked to :p
2019-04-28T15:15:37 < catphish> zyp: this is data from my drive: https://i.imgur.com/SdHf6Mc.png
2019-04-28T15:16:06 < zyp> hmm, wait
2019-04-28T15:16:15 < catphish> mine's upside-down :)
2019-04-28T15:16:30 < zyp> so there's three possible pulse lengths, 
2019-04-28T15:16:51 < zyp> 0.25, 0.375 and 0.5
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2019-04-28T15:17:03 < zyp> and each bit is 0.25 usec long
2019-04-28T15:17:31 < catphish> pulse-length here is the time between one pulse and the next
2019-04-28T15:17:32 < rajkosto> just set up the timer in capture mode and then capture the duty/width and compare and output bits in reset interrupt
2019-04-28T15:17:49 < zyp> yes
2019-04-28T15:17:49 < catphish> so a period of 0.25 represents one pulse followed by one period of no pulse
2019-04-28T15:18:20 < zyp> I'm looking at the three colors in the diagram you linked
2019-04-28T15:18:33 < catphish> 0.375 represents a pulse followed by 2 periods of no pulse, and 0.5 is a pulse followed by 3 periods of no pulse
2019-04-28T15:18:54 < zyp> yeah yeah, sure
2019-04-28T15:19:26 < catphish> so, this would be 10, 100, and 1000 respectively as binary if we were fixed-period sampling
2019-04-28T15:19:33 < zyp> but I mean, if the previous bit was x, 0.25 means you get another bit of x
2019-04-28T15:19:35 < catphish> or 0.25, 0.375 and 0.5 if we're timing
2019-04-28T15:19:41 < zyp> 0.5 means you get !x, x
2019-04-28T15:20:00 < zyp> but the 0.375 ones confuse me, since they would be 1.5 bits long
2019-04-28T15:20:26 < catphish> yeah those middle length ones are more confusing
2019-04-28T15:20:35 < catphish> here's someone's code: http://www.pdp11gy.com/mfm/Algorithmus_2.jpg
2019-04-28T15:20:47 < zyp> no thanks
2019-04-28T15:20:47 < catphish> the middle-length code is a pig to decode
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2019-04-28T15:20:57 < zyp> I'm not gonna try wrapping my head around that :p
2019-04-28T15:21:11 < catphish> i wouldn't bother
2019-04-28T15:21:40 < zyp> but anyway
2019-04-28T15:21:59 < catphish> but the point is that each bit of data is represented by 2 bits of MFM, and there's never 2 ones in a row in MFM
2019-04-28T15:22:17 < catphish> there's also never more than 3 zeros in a row
2019-04-28T15:22:40 < zyp> with input capture and 8-bit dma, you get one byte per pulse, and then you just look at that byte to figure out if it was a 0.25, 0.375 or 0.5 us pulse
2019-04-28T15:23:01 < zyp> and then feed that stream into whatever makes it into bits
2019-04-28T15:23:42 < catphish> yep, that was kinda my "plan a", i was even thinking i could just store / transfer the 3 lengths as 2 bits
2019-04-28T15:24:18 < zyp> if you don't wanna do the full decoding there, you could turn each pulse into two bits, signalling either of the three period lenghts, with the fourth combination being period out of bounds or something
2019-04-28T15:24:34 < zyp> :)
2019-04-28T15:25:15 < zyp> anyway, to me that sounds like a much simpler problem than generating and synchronizing a sampling clock
2019-04-28T15:25:42 < catphish> i'm not actually sure which is simpler, but you're right that does sound like a nice option
2019-04-28T15:27:26 < catphish> honestly, i might write both, because i'm worried that both could be potentially fragile in the case of any bad data or unformatted periods on a disk
2019-04-28T15:28:00 < catphish> i have no idea if i need to worry about that really, will see :)
2019-04-28T15:28:14 < zyp> hmm
2019-04-28T15:28:27 < zyp> instead of doing DMA, you could just be polling the timer
2019-04-28T15:29:13 < zyp> then you can check both the capture and update flags
2019-04-28T15:29:32 < zyp> update will tell you if there's a longer period without pulses
2019-04-28T15:32:11 < catphish> the disks i want to read right now are pretty simple, they write the whole track in one continuous process, so there's not likely to be much problem, i think other disks have data arranged into sectors with unformatted gaps between them
2019-04-28T15:32:59 < catphish> anyway, i'll start putting some code down and see what happens
2019-04-28T15:33:02 < catphish> thanks for looking :)
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2019-04-28T17:52:01 < catphish> wow, i did a test implementation, it appears to have worked first timr
2019-04-28T17:52:03 < catphish> *time
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2019-04-28T17:57:22 < Steffanx> and what way did you go catphish?
2019-04-28T18:01:38 < aandrew> hmj, is it possible to ask an stm32f756 why it can't access flash at all? not AXIM, not ITCM. RAM works fine
2019-04-28T18:02:02 < aandrew> mww 0x40023C08 0x08192A3B; mww 0x40023C08 0x4C5D6E7F; mdw 0x40023c14
2019-04-28T18:02:03 < aandrew> er
2019-04-28T18:02:13 < catphish> Steffanx: right now i'm buy-wait-polling the timer, and simultaneously the input pin, waiting for either a binary 1, or a timeout
2019-04-28T18:02:19 < catphish> right now, like this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zKBWMJQRXN/
2019-04-28T18:06:33 < Steffanx> heh
2019-04-28T18:07:41 < catphish> the timer runs freely, i collect a 0-bit each time it overflows, but i also do something weird when a pulse comes in, collecting it separately and reconfiguring the timer, that second part seems like it would be neater with an EXTI
2019-04-28T18:08:11 < catphish> but it *seems* to work
2019-04-28T18:19:06 < aandrew> hm, the memories are read-locked. can't seem to unlock either (procedure doesn't create any errors, but readback after reset shows still read locked)
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2019-04-28T18:35:54 < dongs> englishman: it was turning off halfway through boot. my lab psu was garbage or the 5V cable was too long. switched to a fat chink 5V/3A power supply and it worked
2019-04-28T18:36:14 < dongs> where is ragekosto, i am still trying to figure out how to doom on that thing
2019-04-28T18:36:23 < dongs> what's a good lunxi 3D demo to try and compile on jetson
2019-04-28T18:41:08 < englishman> lunix has 3d?
2019-04-28T18:41:14 < mawk> of course
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2019-04-28T18:41:54 < dongs> chrome was rendering three.js minecraft+ao demo at like 60-70fps
2019-04-28T18:42:15 < dongs> https://threejs.org/examples/webgl_geometry_minecraft_ao.html
2019-04-28T18:42:53 < dongs> hm my desktop does same, maybe its framerate locked
2019-04-28T18:45:35 < dongs> last time i tried GUI on niggerberrypi, it was barely able to open a browser
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2019-04-28T18:56:50 < karlp> my laptop is ~fixed at 60fps
2019-04-28T18:58:16 < englishman> do the console characters fly out of the screen at you or something
2019-04-28T18:58:53 < dongs> yeah, like ur in teh matrix
2019-04-28T19:02:31 < englishman> https://jameshfisher.com/2019/04/27/the-inception-bar-a-new-phishing-method/
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2019-04-28T19:23:39 < dongs> ctrl+f, no amp in page
2019-04-28T19:23:40 < dongs> disappoint
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2019-04-28T21:52:55 < Cracki> cubemx for F4 really insatiable https://i.imgur.com/jQfgeuq.png
2019-04-28T21:53:30 < Cracki> how do they manage to stuff so much incompressible shit in there
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2019-04-28T22:00:09 < Thorn> f0/l0 package is ~10x smaller btw
2019-04-28T22:00:22 < Cracki> f1 isn't all that large either
2019-04-28T22:01:13 < Steffanx> Doesnt each version include the previous versions database as well?
2019-04-28T22:01:46 < Steffanx> also some huge touchgfx example iirc
2019-04-28T22:02:00 < Cracki> f7 is blowing up as well. 1239 MB for the latest one. they must be stuffing flash images in there
2019-04-28T22:02:36 < Cracki> f0 seems to shrink again...
2019-04-28T22:05:38 < aandrew> hm ok
2019-04-28T22:06:07 < aandrew> so it seems that this weird 128 bit good flash/128 bit all ffs flash issue is a permanent failure
2019-04-28T22:06:31 < aandrew> I reflowed 3/3 failing boards and they all eventually let me unlock them, but that issue remained
2019-04-28T22:06:43 < aandrew> replaced the stm32f756ng on one of them and the board is 100% good now
2019-04-28T22:07:01 < aandrew> so I have to order a couple more stm32s tomorrow along with two 10m25s and we should be good
2019-04-28T22:08:35 < Steffanx> stm32f756ng qfn? 
2019-04-28T22:10:21 < aandrew> bga
2019-04-28T22:10:30 < Steffanx> ah
2019-04-28T22:14:39 < Steffanx> must be great fun replacing those
2019-04-28T22:15:43 < aandrew> repacing is not too bad. reflowing is more of a pain
2019-04-28T22:16:12 < Steffanx> thats part of the replacing process right?
2019-04-28T22:16:37 < aandrew> well true.. I mean reflow not to remove the existing part being more of a pain
2019-04-28T22:16:51 < aandrew> get hot, pop off, clean, flux, reflow new part is less finicky I think
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2019-04-28T22:38:32 < kakimir> imma using gcc from 2014
2019-04-28T22:38:35 < kakimir> this bad?
2019-04-28T22:38:46 < kakimir> 2014 q2 I noticed
2019-04-28T22:39:46 < kakimir> have you seen any major improvements between that and 2018 q2?
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2019-04-28T22:49:46 < qyx> Thorn: no, mic->SPI because L432 has no DFSDM... you can connect it teither to SAI or SPI, they use the same pins (by accident or by purpose, idk)
2019-04-28T22:50:35 < Thorn> so you do the sigma-delta stuff yourself?
2019-04-28T22:51:28 < qyx> yes with some AVR code, google for "attiny pdm microphone"
2019-04-28T22:52:42 < Thorn> does it take a lot of cpu? I've got a l0 in my current project
2019-04-28T22:52:52 < qyx> https://curiouser.cheshireeng.com/2015/01/21/pdm-in-attiny85-source-code/
2019-04-28T22:53:17 < qyx> not much, they do it on 16MHz attiny
2019-04-28T22:53:23 < Thorn> otoh if it runs on avr lol...
2019-04-28T22:53:26 < Thorn> yeah
2019-04-28T22:53:29 < Thorn> thanks for the pinters
2019-04-28T22:53:41 < qyx> 1MHz pdm freq
2019-04-28T22:53:54 < qyx> 128x decimation
2019-04-28T22:54:35 < Thorn> maybe I can add rough SPL measurement to my sensor board
2019-04-28T22:55:05 < qyx> I may send you some POC codez tomorrow
2019-04-28T22:55:26 < qyx> or just copy paste from the link
2019-04-28T22:55:55 < Thorn> looks like several interesting articles there, including intro to PDM in general
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2019-04-28T23:04:51 < Cracki> pdm has a clock, right?
2019-04-28T23:05:09 < Cracki> what kinda stuff do they do, hook clock and data into a counter to integrate?
2019-04-28T23:10:51 < Cracki> heh they use a lookup table to count bits
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2019-04-28T23:13:52 < qyx> yes
2019-04-28T23:14:06 < Cracki> kinda disappointed that avr has no bit counting instruction
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2019-04-28T23:14:21 < qyx> does arm have one?
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2019-04-28T23:15:10 < Cracki> you got me there
2019-04-28T23:17:25 < mawk> Cracki: https://pix.watch/TcT3z7/n7HKiN.png
2019-04-28T23:17:32 < mawk> it's pretty poor compared to x86
2019-04-28T23:17:34 < Cracki> there's vcnt.8 but that's prolly cortex a
2019-04-28T23:17:35 < mawk> but it's not risc for nothing
2019-04-28T23:17:44 < mawk> I showed for cortex M3/M4
2019-04-28T23:17:49 < Cracki> ye
2019-04-28T23:18:17 < Cracki> eh, lut is good
2019-04-28T23:19:09 < Cracki> arm kb article: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.faqs/ka8917.html
2019-04-28T23:20:47 < Cracki> those guys have an easy way to initialize the lut: http://chiselapp.com/user/rberteig/repository/PDMStunts/artifact/3ee0256e9f271e3c
2019-04-28T23:21:18 < Cracki> noticing that counts go like +0,+1, then expand recursively
2019-04-28T23:22:23 < qyx> yes thats the code I linked to Thorn
2019-04-28T23:24:50 < Cracki> that's some signal processing there... they integrate/sum twice right in that interrupt
2019-04-28T23:29:47 < qyx> the problem is getting 128k inbterrupts per second
2019-04-28T23:29:59 < qyx> I plan to reweite it a vit with DMA
2019-04-28T23:30:06 < qyx> a bit
2019-04-28T23:32:21 < qyx> also I suspect CRC peripheral can be used to offload parts of the algo
2019-04-28T23:33:03 < qyx> ST is using it in their PDM lib apparenly as the lib needs CRC clock to be enabled
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--- Day changed Mon Apr 29 2019
2019-04-29T00:01:03 < karlp> oh, on the parts with coanfigurable polynomials I guess.
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2019-04-29T00:13:02 < Cracki> with dma, eh?
2019-04-29T00:13:11 < Cracki> blocked then?
2019-04-29T00:13:47 < Cracki> I have seen DMA controllers that could do some bit shuffling and other math, but those were designed for graphics
2019-04-29T00:14:49 < Cracki> for that tiny code, they talked about condensing 128 bit at once. that's probably a more natural unit for interrupts than 8 bit :>
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2019-04-29T00:23:39 < Cracki> they only release their stuff compiled? meh
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2019-04-29T00:30:11 < Thorn> wtf, lcsc doesn't seem to have any pdm microphones
2019-04-29T00:30:43 < Steffanx> Aliexpress/ebay it is then?
2019-04-29T00:31:04 < Steffanx> Isnt there like a russian digikey? 
2019-04-29T00:31:26 < Steffanx> Or will you only find old russian tubes there?
2019-04-29T00:33:19 < Thorn> qyx: btw why pdm and not i2s?
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2019-04-29T00:46:29 < Steffanx> Happy birthday jly 
2019-04-29T00:59:07 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boBK7IQ@73.109.61.54] has joined ##stm32
2019-04-29T01:03:40 < jly> gooday sport
2019-04-29T01:06:49 < jly> i was looking for the doctor, 
2019-04-29T01:07:02 < jly> is he here? do  you know?
2019-04-29T01:10:40 < Steffanx> Try ##stm32-offtopic 
2019-04-29T01:11:20 < jly> you've been trying to trick me with that for years mr stffn
2019-04-29T01:12:22 < Steffanx> Its real now.
2019-04-29T01:13:00 < jly> fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on you
2019-04-29T01:15:04 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-04-29T01:21:43 < Thorn> Steffanx: the prices
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2019-04-29T01:44:37 < mawk> catphish: you wanted an easy stm32 IDE, st released one some days ago
2019-04-29T01:45:31 < catphish> mawk: cool!
2019-04-29T01:46:12 < englishman> karlp: iotawatt helping to diagnose water pump problems again.
2019-04-29T01:46:21 < englishman> water pump taking 5kW, and doesn't work.
2019-04-29T01:46:22 < englishman> :)
2019-04-29T01:48:58 < catphish> thats a big heater
2019-04-29T02:10:29 < zyp> so it's stuck, not rotating and just burning the windings
2019-04-29T02:14:29 < catphish> well, my floppy reading works perfectly, i was confused for rather a while because my disk has 6 bits more then it should on this track
2019-04-29T02:15:10 < catphish> should be 100.000 bits per track, i seem to be reading 100,006
2019-04-29T02:15:45 < catphish> i guess as an analog medium the actual number of bits depends on how fast the drive was spinning in the particular machine that formatted it
2019-04-29T02:18:53 < Cracki> this is that new shit: https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stm32cubeide.html
2019-04-29T02:19:03 < Cracki> (noticed it today in cubemx too)
2019-04-29T02:19:36 < Cracki> again eclipse based...  as were ac6 and truestudio
2019-04-29T02:19:55 < catphish> ac6 was almost good
2019-04-29T02:20:09 < Cracki> anything just needs dogfooding and polishing
2019-04-29T02:20:26 < catphish> seems like this will be worth a try anyway
2019-04-29T02:20:52 < Cracki> if they keep switching horses, some irate developer will do something newsworthy to their executive floor
2019-04-29T02:23:02 < Cracki> I hope they took either of those anre just plopped cubemx in there, rather than starting from scratch
2019-04-29T02:23:27 < Cracki> branding is a good idea, compared to just endorsing and buying third party ides
2019-04-29T02:24:14 < catphish> finished (i hope) disk read code https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/yQJbFpktvM/
2019-04-29T02:24:41 < Cracki> truestudio had no "just flash it and run" (run), only the "flash it, then break" (debug). you'd have to do that yourself if you wanted it. maybe they'll do that now.
2019-04-29T02:25:00 < Cracki> "disk"?
2019-04-29T02:25:05 < Cracki> i see timers and uart
2019-04-29T02:25:48 < catphish> Cracki: it reads data from a floppy drive connected to a GPIO by timing bits
2019-04-29T02:25:55 < Cracki> wut
2019-04-29T02:25:59 < catphish> and writes the data out to a uart
2019-04-29T02:26:02 < Cracki> interesting
2019-04-29T02:26:06 < Cracki> why would you do this?
2019-04-29T02:26:26 < catphish> i want to read and write amiga disks
2019-04-29T02:26:38 < Cracki> actually, embedded shit with floppy drive sounds like a hilarious idea
2019-04-29T02:26:42 < Cracki> ic ic
2019-04-29T02:27:26 < catphish> reading seems to work well now, at least if i run it for a while, easy successive set of 100,006 bits are identical
2019-04-29T02:27:38 < catphish> *every
2019-04-29T02:28:19 < catphish> i'm interested in amiga, but when it's done it should in theory be able to read and write *any* floppy disk
2019-04-29T02:29:49 < Cracki> how many pins of the floppy connector do you use/need?
2019-04-29T02:29:55 < Cracki> it was quite a ribbon iirc
2019-04-29T02:31:18 < catphish> there are indeed a lot of pins, its a fairly raw hardware interface so they all have different distinct purposes, there are 13 that theoretically do something, of which about 11 are actually useful
2019-04-29T02:31:19 < Cracki> lol stepdir signals
2019-04-29T02:31:33 < Cracki> yeh looks like half are ground
2019-04-29T02:31:42 < catphish> yep, half are ground :)
2019-04-29T02:31:47 < Cracki> of the ribbon. got some pinout table, all pin numbers are even
2019-04-29T02:32:30 < Cracki> motor enable a/b, drive set a/b, wew that's raw
2019-04-29T02:32:32 < catphish> yeah one row is ground :)
2019-04-29T02:32:41 < catphish> of the other 15, i think 11 are useful
2019-04-29T02:33:06 < catphish> things like "enable motor", "select top/bottom head"
2019-04-29T02:33:19 < catphish> one steps the read head
2019-04-29T02:33:40 < Cracki> I'm afraid I'll have to go look for a floppy drive tomorrow, and I will again not manage to get much done
2019-04-29T02:33:46 < catphish> i'm actually only using *1* pin right now, "read data" which has the actual bitstream
2019-04-29T02:34:29 < Cracki> if you're only reading that, what controls the drive to move over all tracks?
2019-04-29T02:34:49 < Cracki> hooking into a running amiga and sniffing?
2019-04-29T02:35:22 < catphish> but to use the drive usefully for reading, you would need 1) select the drive 2) enable the motor 3) select the head 4) set the step direction 5) step the read head 6) sense the head home location 7) read the data
2019-04-29T02:35:47 < catphish> Cracki: right now i'm just reading one track, i hardwired the enable lines, and just heave the head stationary
2019-04-29T02:35:54 < catphish> but moving it is trivial
2019-04-29T02:35:56 < Cracki> heh
2019-04-29T02:36:05 < catphish> so that's a low priority
2019-04-29T02:36:12 < Cracki> sitting there with toggle switches or something?
2019-04-29T02:36:23 < Cracki> (switches with lowpass :>)
2019-04-29T02:36:32 < catphish> not even that
2019-04-29T02:36:45 < catphish> just jumpered
2019-04-29T02:37:02 < Cracki> I've been poking a stepper driver yesterday, just a jumper wire. of course it bounced and sometimes did several steps quickly
2019-04-29T02:37:18 < Cracki> ah so proof of concept, not yet reading everything?
2019-04-29T02:37:20 < catphish> i did write code that moved the head, it's utterly trivial though https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/RBgqSjK6gD/
2019-04-29T02:37:50 < Cracki> sleep in microseconds, or 80 mhz cycles?
2019-04-29T02:38:35 < catphish> it's actually /2 80MHz cycles because all it does is for(int n=0;n<time;n++) asm("NOP");
2019-04-29T02:38:42 < catphish> until i write a proper sleep method with a timer
2019-04-29T02:39:15 < catphish> in fact i didn't even check how many cycles it uses, its not critical
2019-04-29T02:39:20 < Cracki> :P
2019-04-29T02:39:50 < catphish> i just wanted to get the basic function of actually reading data working perectly
2019-04-29T02:40:41 < catphish> now it does, i can flesh out the other stuff: 1) controlling the drive (stepping etc) 2) decoding the data on the host PC into an actual disk image
2019-04-29T02:41:32 < catphish> i want to keep the firmware simple, so the PC will issue commands like "step to track 10", "read track"
2019-04-29T02:41:39 < Cracki> I love it
2019-04-29T02:42:01 < mawk> how the communication catphish ?
2019-04-29T02:42:02 < mawk> USB ?
2019-04-29T02:42:16 < catphish> right now i have a nucleo board, so its usb->uart
2019-04-29T02:42:32 < mawk> right
2019-04-29T02:42:59 < catphish> but i want to build a small board to go on the back of a floppy drive
2019-04-29T02:43:09 < catphish> at which point i might go proper usb
2019-04-29T02:43:10 < mawk> you have the smaller nucleo-32 boards
2019-04-29T02:43:16 < mawk> I got myself a few of them
2019-04-29T02:43:39 < catphish> this is an stm32l476rg-nucleo, my favourite board that does everything
2019-04-29T02:43:41 < mawk> no user usb but the mcu has usb so you can make a cable, is what I did
2019-04-29T02:43:54 < mawk> I've got L432KC
2019-04-29T02:43:59 < mawk> low power thing
2019-04-29T02:44:21 < catphish> yeah, they call it low power, but it also happens to be uber powerful
2019-04-29T02:44:40 < catphish> it's up there with the f4
2019-04-29T02:45:00 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-29T02:45:08 < mawk> it's a shame smaller nucleos don't have user usb
2019-04-29T02:45:13 < mawk> only the big nucleo with 144 pins
2019-04-29T02:45:17 < catphish> i need to learn proper usb (including usb dfu) though
2019-04-29T02:45:28 < mawk> usb is what I'm learning at the moment
2019-04-29T02:45:32 < mawk> I've done a usb ttl converter
2019-04-29T02:45:50 < mawk> that can be used from linux or w10, setting the baud rate, etc
2019-04-29T02:45:53 < Cracki> aha! that twist in floppy cables swaps motor enables and drive sets between a and b
2019-04-29T02:45:55 < catphish> i assume the stm32 can simulate a usb serial device easily enough
2019-04-29T02:45:56 < mawk> but it's the easiest thing
2019-04-29T02:46:02 < catphish> Cracki: yep :)
2019-04-29T02:46:07 < mawk> it's not simulation, it's an established thing
2019-04-29T02:46:14 < Cracki> so A and B are the drives, not two motors in one drive
2019-04-29T02:46:16 < mawk> using the CDC class you are a modem
2019-04-29T02:46:22 < mawk> so like a serial port
2019-04-29T02:46:31 < mawk> every sane OS will show you as a serial port
2019-04-29T02:46:35 < Cracki> ^
2019-04-29T02:46:38 < catphish> Cracki: yeah you can totally ignore the "A" pins, they do nothing
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2019-04-29T02:47:00 < Cracki> depending on if you're in front or behind the twist
2019-04-29T02:47:06 < catphish> Cracki: weirdly all drives are "B"
2019-04-29T02:47:16 < Cracki> hm
2019-04-29T02:47:21 < rajkosto> they are B by default the twist swaps them to A
2019-04-29T02:47:29 < rajkosto> thats why on a single connector cable the twist is there
2019-04-29T02:47:33 < catphish> the primary drive in a PC is the twisted one
2019-04-29T02:47:39 < Cracki> that's twisted.
2019-04-29T02:47:52 < catphish> yeah that's a really weird design
2019-04-29T02:48:05 < rajkosto> if you have a 2 floppy cable the middle one is straight and the end one is twisted, the end is A, the middle is B
2019-04-29T02:48:19 < catphish> rajkosto: right, weird isn't it
2019-04-29T02:48:47 < rajkosto> its the same as the IDE cables cutting one conductor in the middle on the last one for CS
2019-04-29T02:48:48 < Cracki> hmmm that f4 devboard I have has such nice double row headers. they beg for a floppy cable
2019-04-29T02:48:51 < rajkosto> so that can be the master
2019-04-29T02:49:13 < catphish> rajkosto: i've never seen that, i always jumpered my IDE
2019-04-29T02:49:28 < rajkosto> yes, IDE CS never worked right for me
2019-04-29T02:49:28 < Cracki> when you jumper them cableselect...
2019-04-29T02:49:43 < rajkosto> always better to just assign one master one slave manually
2019-04-29T02:49:44 < Cracki> I might have tried that once, didn't stick with it
2019-04-29T02:49:48 < catphish> Cracki: by the way, floppy drive IO is 5v, i was careful to map to 5v tolerant ports
2019-04-29T02:49:54 < Cracki> good point
2019-04-29T02:50:05 < Cracki> I think I have some level shifters flying around still somewhere
2019-04-29T02:50:22 < catphish> also, it's all open collector, so i had to enable pullups on everything
2019-04-29T02:51:03 < Cracki> uh, had they not invented pushpull yet back then
2019-04-29T02:51:18 < catphish> well, probably depends on the exact drive
2019-04-29T02:51:44 < catphish> but mine seems to be open collector, which means it likely won't blow up my stm32 with 5v, but i used 5v pins to be sure
2019-04-29T02:52:06 < catphish> my drive also happy runs off the 5v usb :)
2019-04-29T02:52:20 < catphish> "modern" drives don't use the 12v power pin
2019-04-29T02:52:22 < Cracki> ic
2019-04-29T02:52:27 < Cracki> does the drive have pullups at all?
2019-04-29T02:52:35 < karlp> englishman: so, did you get an alert about it automatically? or did you configure an alert? or what?
2019-04-29T02:52:39 < Cracki> (on its input pins)
2019-04-29T02:53:24 < englishman> karlp: no, the water didn't work and i didn't know if it was a leak again or what. though alerting sounds like a great idea.
2019-04-29T02:53:27 < catphish> Cracki: probably yes
2019-04-29T02:53:32 < Cracki> kk
2019-04-29T02:53:49 < catphish> i didn't test, but it doesn't flap when open circuit, so probably does
2019-04-29T02:54:54 < catphish> this is my drive by the way http://www.silmoh.com/pezzi2/DS/1826-DS.pdf
2019-04-29T02:54:59 < catphish> DF354H
2019-04-29T02:55:28 < catphish> the datasheet helpfully has the timings :)
2019-04-29T02:55:34 < karlp> mawk: with your usb-ttl converter, have you tried running things like zmodem through it? it's a good test of whether you've actually handled the flow control properly.
2019-04-29T02:55:51 < karlp> lots of usb-ttl demo code works for users typing, but falls flat pretty quickly using it as a comms channel.
2019-04-29T02:57:32 < Cracki> I'm reading that the floppy bus is also called "shugart bus" 
2019-04-29T02:59:03 < Cracki> wew there were even drive select lines for up to 4-5 drives
2019-04-29T02:59:48 < Cracki> pc cables only have DS2 ... http://www.hermannseib.com/documents/floppy.pdf
2019-04-29T03:01:27 < Cracki> indeed, the recommended line drive ics are open collector
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2019-04-29T03:02:58 < catphish> well i'm running the stm32 in OC mode for outputs, and pullups on the inputs
2019-04-29T03:03:18 < catphish> all on 5v tolerant pins, just in case
2019-04-29T03:03:29 < Cracki> sounds sensible
2019-04-29T03:04:09 < catphish> once i have it working better i'm going to build a board that mounts directly onto the back of the drive
2019-04-29T03:04:28 < catphish> seems like it'll be a useful tool for playing with old computers
2019-04-29T03:05:00 < catphish> the aim is to keep it super simple and just read or write a single track of raw encoded data
2019-04-29T03:05:22 < catphish> since speed isn't critical
2019-04-29T03:06:42 < catphish> what's weird is that there's no set amount of bits per track
2019-04-29T03:08:38 < catphish> the actual write has to be slightly shorter than the track (to avoid clobbering the start), so you end up with a small empty space that likely contains old data from previous writes
2019-04-29T03:10:26 < Cracki> you can hide stuff in there
2019-04-29T03:10:41 < Cracki> people probably did that since the beginning
2019-04-29T03:11:10 < Cracki> or wrote faster/denser or made the drive spin slower
2019-04-29T03:11:15 < Cracki> or faster to read faster
2019-04-29T03:13:23 < catphish> the amiga is interesting in that 1) space was at a premium and 2) the disk controller gives the software very low level access
2019-04-29T03:14:09 < catphish> this means that lots of programs either 1) crammed extra data in or 2) used invalid / unusual layouts to make it harder to copy the games
2019-04-29T03:14:41 < catphish> this is part of why i want to be able to dump totally raw data
2019-04-29T03:15:22 < catphish> though it's somewhat moot since i'll largely be writing either homebrew or cracked software anyway
2019-04-29T03:15:25 < Cracki> the stepdir signals for tracks, are they one pulse per track, or do you have to step a few times?
2019-04-29T03:15:47 < catphish> one pulse per track afaik
2019-04-29T03:15:56 < Cracki> so that's one of the few constants
2019-04-29T03:16:16 < catphish> yeah that's nice and simple
2019-04-29T03:16:34 < catphish> it must all be hardware aligned to the tracks
2019-04-29T03:17:02 < catphish> there are always exactly 80 tracks on all disk formats
2019-04-29T03:17:51 < catphish> also, the number of bits, while not totally fixed, is specified by the disk
2019-04-29T03:18:12 < catphish> DD disks = 1MB, HD disks = 2MB
2019-04-29T03:19:06 < catphish> which boils down to 6,250 bytes or 12,500 byes per track
2019-04-29T03:19:25 < Cracki> you are dealing with 5.25 or 8" floppies, right?
2019-04-29T03:19:33 < catphish> 3.5"
2019-04-29T03:19:39 < Cracki> oh
2019-04-29T03:19:54 < Cracki> I only remember they were 1.44 MB, where that wasn't the exact truth
2019-04-29T03:20:16 < catphish> 1.44MB is what you get when you format a 2MB HD disk
2019-04-29T03:20:25 < Cracki> ic
2019-04-29T03:20:38 < catphish> so it's 2MB minus the gaps between sectors, checksums, etc
2019-04-29T03:24:08 < catphish> "3.5-inch floppy disks uses 512 bytes per sector, 18 sectors per track, 80 tracks per side and two sides, for a total of 1,474,560 bytes per disk."
2019-04-29T03:24:46 < Cracki> so that's 1440 KiB
2019-04-29T03:25:00 < catphish> right, 1.44MB
2019-04-29T03:25:05 < Cracki> and probably 1.38 MiB after formatting
2019-04-29T03:25:08 < catphish> which is really quite inefficient, when you consider that the amiga uses 512 bytes x 22 sectors on the same media
2019-04-29T03:26:43 < catphish> the difference is that the amiga leaves no gaps between the sectors, meaning it has to write all 22 sectors at once
2019-04-29T03:27:15 < catphish> whereas the pc leaves a buffer around each sector so it can overwrite just one at a time
2019-04-29T03:28:07 < Cracki> reminds me of how eventually you could write sectorwise onto CD-RWs
2019-04-29T03:29:21 < catphish> indeed
2019-04-29T03:29:31 < catphish> though i never tried that
2019-04-29T03:30:14 < catphish> i thought you could only write new tracks and erase the whole disk
2019-04-29T03:30:27 < catphish> but makes sense that they'd have improved upon it
2019-04-29T03:30:45 < catphish> gay, it's 1:30, i should sleep, work tomorrow
2019-04-29T03:31:43 < catphish> in any case, the read code i posted *appears*  to work perfectly, i won't really know until i try to decode it, but multiple reads yield the same data, so that's encouraging
2019-04-29T03:34:43 < catphish> good times: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/qVYwpSQmPp/
2019-04-29T03:39:05 < mawk> no karlp , but that's a good idea
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2019-04-29T03:41:03 < Cracki> ah now I remember. there were DVD RAMs who had true sector access. CD/DVD-RWs could be append-written in small increments, but for sector rewrite you had to format them. the precision must have been an outgrowth of buffer underrun protection/tolerance
2019-04-29T03:45:07 < Cracki> at one time I had enough ram stuffed in my computer to buffer a whole CD. that was awful
2019-04-29T03:50:37 < karlp> mawk: (when you have it working, can you share it? I've not found a nice one yet that really handles it well.....)
2019-04-29T03:51:17 < mawk> yes
2019-04-29T03:53:12 < mawk> so you mean with the physical cts rts pins ?
2019-04-29T03:53:15 < mawk> not software flow control
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2019-04-29T03:53:29 < karlp> no, I mean, software.
2019-04-29T03:53:37 < mawk> ah, right
2019-04-29T03:53:47 < mawk> xon xoff
2019-04-29T03:53:49 < karlp> fuck hardware flowcontrol, who the fuck needs that shit
2019-04-29T03:53:57 < karlp> no, I mean, just have your usb/uart open
2019-04-29T03:54:08 < karlp> and try running a real binary protocol over it.
2019-04-29T03:54:26 < karlp> you find all the toy implementations taht don't handle usb back pressure and overflow their uart output buffers and all that.
2019-04-29T03:59:37 < mawk> ah, I see
2019-04-29T03:59:40 < mawk> nice problem
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2019-04-29T04:35:08 < dongs> huh
2019-04-29T04:35:22 < dongs> some Zynq shits have h264/265 codec hardware
2019-04-29T04:35:28 < dongs> up to 4K60p
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2019-04-29T04:36:20 < dongs> https://www.xilinx.com/content/dam/xilinx/imgs/products/zynq/zynq-ev-block.PNG what hte hell is this anyway, just looks like a SoC, which part of this is Xilinx? the 'programmable logic' shit?
2019-04-29T04:44:57 < johntramp> is it typically possible to retain the state of a gpio pin on wdog reset? as I have a PSU latch pin which is causing the system to powerdown if it resets
2019-04-29T04:45:50 < dongs> no lol
2019-04-29T04:45:53 < dongs> you should have thought of that
2019-04-29T04:45:58 < dongs> and used an external pullup./down
2019-04-29T04:46:08 < dongs> as soon as stm resets, all pins go to highz
2019-04-29T04:46:20 < dongs> or some kinda external latch
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2019-04-29T04:47:31 < johntramp> hmm kinda makes the wdog useless then doesn't it ... 
2019-04-29T04:47:51 < dongs> ... how so
2019-04-29T04:48:02 < dongs> why would wdg guarantee pin state on reset?
2019-04-29T04:48:25 < johntramp> i mean in my case, not in general 
2019-04-29T04:53:28 < Cracki> in general it's supposed to reset the system
2019-04-29T04:53:30 < johntramp> so even for a __NVIC_SystemReset() is it not possible to latch gpio pin states?
2019-04-29T04:53:46 < dongs> no.
2019-04-29T04:53:55 < dongs> that literally does same thing as donging the nreset pin
2019-04-29T04:53:56 < Cracki> if you want to avoid the hard reset, you could kludge your own wdog
2019-04-29T04:54:18 < Cracki> which doesn't reset,... but runs whatever init you want
2019-04-29T04:54:25 < Cracki> are you sure you want a watchdog?
2019-04-29T04:54:38 < dongs> watchdog doesn't solve the problem of shitty code
2019-04-29T04:54:47 < Cracki> and how does that system even come up when the controller has to assert a pin to _get_ its own power?
2019-04-29T04:54:55 < dongs> maybe a pushbutton
2019-04-29T04:55:01 < dongs> which is then latched by gpio
2019-04-29T04:55:02 < dongs> i did that before
2019-04-29T04:55:07 < Cracki> hmhm
2019-04-29T04:55:07 < johntramp> yes, exactly 
2019-04-29T04:55:20 < dongs> and it allows to soft-power off
2019-04-29T04:55:22 < Cracki> so you want it to keep getting power even though the wdog just bit?
2019-04-29T04:55:23 < dongs> by releasing that same gpio
2019-04-29T04:55:53 < johntramp> dongs:  yes that's right
2019-04-29T04:56:04 < dongs> just dont use watchdong i guess.
2019-04-29T04:56:09 < dongs> don't write shit code that crashes
2019-04-29T04:56:40 < Cracki> apropos xilinx, yes that's an FPGA + arm core and whatever else. h.264 dec/codec is quite useful to have for these hybrid thingies
2019-04-29T04:58:20 < Cracki> yes, all the programmable logic part is xilinx fpga. diagram would indicate to me that the video codec is just another peripheral in the fpga, not tightly coupled to the arm core(s)
2019-04-29T04:58:41 < johntramp> this mcu has a low power state which can latch the gpio pin states and then on wakeup it will reset the system but will not touch these pins,  perhaps I can bastardise a reset via that low power state on the wdog warning
2019-04-29T04:58:43 < dongs> i dont think its soft tho, prolly a block like nvenc/nvdec
2019-04-29T04:59:00 < Cracki> it certainly is a hard block
2019-04-29T04:59:23 < Cracki> otherwise they wouldn't advertise it. spending fpga space for that stuff is costly and wasteful
2019-04-29T04:59:53 < Cracki> the IP would cost you, the silicon only a little
2019-04-29T05:01:17 < dongs> yeah
2019-04-29T05:01:19 < Cracki> which is why I'm surprised it's not (drawn to be) coupled to the cortex A... because that's what every entertainment device does
2019-04-29T05:01:27 < dongs> right, that is the weird part
2019-04-29T05:01:34 < Cracki> and all the busses are missing too
2019-04-29T05:01:52 < Cracki> I hope they have it positioned nicely so you can use it fully from cortex _and_ fpga fabric
2019-04-29T05:02:10 < mawk> wow it's painful to get a serial port view with the eclipse ST thing
2019-04-29T05:02:20 < Cracki> kek
2019-04-29T05:02:34 < mawk> to delete a dummy serial port I made for test I had to modify config files manually and delete cache files
2019-04-29T05:02:57 < Cracki> whatever apprentice they got working on these eclipse based things must not know how vital a serial text/hex view is
2019-04-29T05:03:10 < mawk> then it's locked to common names like /dev/tty* so I can't use /dev/serial/by-id/usb-STMicroelectronics_STM32_STLink_0677FF555054877567023246-if02 because the ACM number keeps changing
2019-04-29T05:03:19 < mawk> so I had to modify the config file manually again
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2019-04-29T05:04:37 < Cracki> heh xilinx advertise for "camera based ADAS" as if anyone would still do anything other than neural nets, in neural network accelerators
2019-04-29T05:05:39 < mawk> then I can't modify serial port setting, and eclipse was stupidly setting \r conversion to \n, so it was doing \n\n but the serial port viewer still expected \r as a carriage return
2019-04-29T05:05:45 < mawk> so it displayed stuff
2019-04-29T05:05:46 < mawk> like
2019-04-29T05:05:48 < mawk>     
2019-04-29T05:05:49 < mawk>     this
2019-04-29T05:06:14 < Cracki> it's free because they can't ask money for it
2019-04-29T05:06:17 < mawk> I had to manually mess with serial port settings using the stty command
2019-04-29T05:06:18 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-29T05:06:50 < Cracki> okok my favorite (and only existing with those features) terminal for windows is hterm
2019-04-29T05:06:57 < mawk> they say it's a drop-in replacement for SW and truestudio
2019-04-29T05:07:03 < Cracki> free, but does its job showing me the data
2019-04-29T05:07:16 < Cracki> drop in meaning sw and truestudio are just as bad?
2019-04-29T05:07:44 < Cracki> the swo channel 0 viewer thingy updates once a second in truestudio
2019-04-29T05:07:45 < mawk> no like you can stop using SW and TS right now and use their stuff instead
2019-04-29T05:07:47 < Cracki> that's awful
2019-04-29T05:07:50 < mawk> because it can import projects
2019-04-29T05:07:58 < Cracki> of course, they're all eclipse
2019-04-29T05:08:00 < mawk> SW = AC6 system workbench
2019-04-29T05:08:02 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-29T05:08:13 < mawk> but also cubeIDE is said to have the same extra features
2019-04-29T05:08:19 < Cracki> but don't expect it to be better than these two because this is just repackaging and rebranding
2019-04-29T05:08:27 < mawk> like configuration of peripherals, showing STM32 peripheral registers and data, freertos configuration
2019-04-29T05:08:50 < Cracki> truestudio can do all that, probably because someone made that "arm eclipse mcu" project do it already
2019-04-29T05:08:59 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-29T05:09:06 < mawk> arm eclipse mcu, I see it all over the place in the ST ide
2019-04-29T05:09:25 < Cracki> "config of peripherals" meaning cubemx, right?
2019-04-29T05:09:34 < mawk> also there are inconsistent settings, in one place I set preprocessors defines but they don't get used, and it needed another totally different menu to set them
2019-04-29T05:09:38 < mawk> yes
2019-04-29T05:09:42 < mawk> they integrated cubeMX inside it
2019-04-29T05:10:01 < Cracki> I'm sure that wasn't a lot of work
2019-04-29T05:10:08 < mawk> yeah both are java
2019-04-29T05:10:10 < Cracki> just tell that class to draw itself inside that widget
2019-04-29T05:10:12 < mawk> just needed some glue code
2019-04-29T05:10:26 < mawk> also glue code for the project generation part, as there is no makefile anymore
2019-04-29T05:11:06 < mawk> and yeah it can show stm32 peripherals registers, it's pretty nice
2019-04-29T05:11:10 < mawk> and it has debugging of course
2019-04-29T05:11:12 < Cracki> I still haven't figured out how to keep it from switching between edit and debug perspective when I enter and stop debugging... it's maddening. the SWV stuff always stops because of that.
2019-04-29T05:11:20 < mawk> but not many breakpoints, I don't know if it's a hard limitation
2019-04-29T05:11:33 < mawk> the cubeIDE ? you're using it ?
2019-04-29T05:11:35 < Cracki> the register viewer is jsut a tree view populated by some register definitions
2019-04-29T05:11:39 < Cracki> no, truestudio
2019-04-29T05:11:39 < mawk> well it's in perspective settings
2019-04-29T05:11:40 < mawk> ah
2019-04-29T05:11:44 < mawk> well I assume it's the same
2019-04-29T05:11:59 < Cracki> probably. ok, perspective settings then...
2019-04-29T05:12:09 < mawk> in perspective settings you can disable auto opening of debug perspective
2019-04-29T05:12:14 < Cracki> bp limit is prolly due to physics
2019-04-29T05:12:24 < mawk> but you can also add the SWV to the debug perspective
2019-04-29T05:12:28 < mawk> maybe it won't stop if you do that
2019-04-29T05:12:28 < Cracki> hard bps the target can support, and soft ones the debugger can
2019-04-29T05:12:37 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-29T05:12:47 < Cracki> swv always stops recording/listening when you stop debugging. can't get around that.
2019-04-29T05:12:51 < mawk> it's like 5 breakpoints max, it's small
2019-04-29T05:12:57 < mawk> ah :(
2019-04-29T05:13:05 < Cracki> and why the fuck do these fuckers make the swv viewer POLL?!
2019-04-29T05:13:23 < Cracki> when I have debug text output over that thing, it only updates once a second
2019-04-29T05:13:34 < Cracki> and sometimes seems to lose bytes
2019-04-29T05:13:50 < Cracki> no config anywhere to make it poll faster than 1/sec
2019-04-29T05:14:04 < mawk> maybe you can modify the plugin
2019-04-29T05:14:09 < mawk> or some config file
2019-04-29T05:14:21 < Cracki> uh yeah I'm gonna disassemble some java class files totally
2019-04-29T05:14:51 < Cracki> enough people are bitching at them in whatever support forums they have
2019-04-29T05:15:17 < mawk> lol
2019-04-29T05:15:19 < Cracki> oh, that xilinx zynq has a mali 400 inluded too
2019-04-29T05:17:13 < Cracki> when was it that fedevel got clobbered by some inept xilinx marketing/IP lawyer drone?
2019-04-29T05:17:37 < dongs> wat happen?
2019-04-29T05:17:44 < Cracki> I'm digging
2019-04-29T05:17:46 < dongs> did he blog about some NDA IP?
2019-04-29T05:17:54 < Cracki> basically angry letter because he made youtube videos
2019-04-29T05:17:57 < Cracki> nah
2019-04-29T05:18:09 < Cracki> he just teaches people for free how to use their products, and they didn't like him using xilinx logos
2019-04-29T05:18:20 < aandrew> yeah xilinx legal team just went off on him as lawyers do, xilinx told their legal team to stfu
2019-04-29T05:18:27 < Cracki> they were like "that's our brand, we control it"
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2019-04-29T05:19:25 < Cracki> here's how he reacted when it happened https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swVuqG9-H0E
2019-04-29T05:19:47 < Cracki> yes, xilinx superiors took it seriously and seem to have made good with him
2019-04-29T05:20:09 < Cracki> dave jones talked about it too
2019-04-29T05:22:46 < dongs> fedevel watches eevbeg
2019-04-29T05:22:48 < dongs> unsubsribed.
2019-04-29T05:23:03 < mawk> eevblerg
2019-04-29T05:23:11 < mawk> he shows his son on camera
2019-04-29T05:23:26 < Cracki> that is literally child exploitation isn't it :>
2019-04-29T05:23:49 < Cracki> tbh this is the kind of family content the world needs right now
2019-04-29T05:23:52 < mawk> he's named Sagan or something
2019-04-29T05:23:55 < Cracki> indeed
2019-04-29T05:25:58 < Cracki> btw, third episode game of thrones
2019-04-29T05:26:10 < dongs> fuck off nigger'
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2019-04-29T05:34:50 < Cracki> ni!
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2019-04-29T06:24:08 < dongs> hm i coulda sworn there was a new altifuck way to make individual pads of something solid instead of thermal
2019-04-29T06:24:11 < dongs> but i cant find it
2019-04-29T06:28:00 < dongs> .. it only works for through-hole pads
2019-04-29T06:28:02 < dongs> lmao wat trash
2019-04-29T06:29:26 < dongs> wait no found it
2019-04-29T06:29:28 < dongs> normal pads ok too
2019-04-29T06:29:29 < dongs> good
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2019-04-29T06:44:53 < mawk> what do you put in your serial wire viewer Cracki ?
2019-04-29T06:45:06 < Cracki> basic printlining
2019-04-29T06:45:34 < Cracki> I know, I could be using the tracing features
2019-04-29T06:45:45 < Cracki> like polling variables, or data watchpoints
2019-04-29T06:46:37 < mawk> but regular debugging does this already
2019-04-29T06:46:50 < Cracki> define "regular"
2019-04-29T06:46:51 < mawk> apart from the print
2019-04-29T06:47:01 < mawk> using the ide debugging features
2019-04-29T06:47:18 < Cracki> define "features"
2019-04-29T06:47:24 < mawk> everything you said
2019-04-29T06:47:30 < mawk> polling variables, watchpoints
2019-04-29T06:47:34 < Cracki> when it's running, not singlestepped, sure, I can get updates on pretty much everything
2019-04-29T06:47:44 < mawk> ah, I see
2019-04-29T06:47:47 < Cracki> old habits die hard
2019-04-29T06:47:48 < mawk> it's for when it's running
2019-04-29T06:48:33 < Cracki> i mean... at the places where I calculate relevant stuff, I could just not print that, and leave it in a variable
2019-04-29T06:48:43 < Cracki> but that'd have to be a global variable
2019-04-29T06:49:21 < Cracki> to be watchable
2019-04-29T06:49:31 < Cracki> swv means ITM sendchar
2019-04-29T06:49:58 < mawk> it's through SWO ?
2019-04-29T06:50:01 < Cracki> yes
2019-04-29T06:50:13 < mawk> the embedded nucleo stlink supports it I guess
2019-04-29T06:50:17 < Cracki> probably
2019-04-29T06:50:31 < Cracki> the stlink v2 china clones "support" it if you hack it a little
2019-04-29T06:50:42 < mawk> for external stlink usage they say it's a reserved port in the datasheet
2019-04-29T06:50:45 < mawk> but I know it's SWO
2019-04-29T06:50:50 < Cracki> the firmware is original (also updateable), but they didn't connect the rx1(?) pin to anything outside
2019-04-29T06:50:57 < mawk> dumb
2019-04-29T06:51:09 < Cracki> yeh, there's a little blog post around
2019-04-29T06:51:27 < Cracki> just isolate a 5v pin and run a bodge wire from that to the right pin on the stm32f1
2019-04-29T06:52:05 < Cracki> these clones have 2x 5v, 2x 3.3v pins, but didn't bother breaking swo out
2019-04-29T06:52:10 < Cracki> really dumb, really
2019-04-29T06:52:38 < Cracki> https://lujji.github.io/blog/stlink-clone-trace/
2019-04-29T06:53:21 < Cracki> didn't have any smd Rs around so w/e
2019-04-29T06:53:40 < Cracki> and mine is a layout where I couldn't separate both 5v pins, so they're both swo :>
2019-04-29T06:53:58 < Cracki> not too bad, I can use the other pin for logic analyzer
2019-04-29T06:55:08 < Cracki> sigrok has decoders for uart physical, ITM, ... enough to read what you're sending, but with the nice exact timing view of a logic analyzer
2019-04-29T06:58:41 < dongs> what is this ST ide shit
2019-04-29T06:59:52 < mawk> it's new
2019-04-29T06:59:55 < mawk> based on eclipse
2019-04-29T07:00:04 < mawk> it seems to work okay
2019-04-29T07:00:27 < mawk> they say you can use it right now instead of truestudio or system workbench
2019-04-29T07:00:36 < mawk> it can import projects
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2019-04-29T07:01:51 < Cracki> it's probably rebranded truestudio
2019-04-29T07:03:03 < Cracki> I'm not sure if that "arm eclipse mcu" thing has SWO/SWV tracking and such
2019-04-29T07:04:08 < Cracki> oh, seems it does
2019-04-29T07:04:57 < Cracki> https://mcuoneclipse.com/2016/10/17/tutorial-using-single-wire-output-swo-with-arm-cortex-m-and-eclipse/
2019-04-29T07:05:36 < Cracki> is anyone using manchester instead of NRZ/uart for SWO?
2019-04-29T07:10:24 < mawk> plugin list of the st ide seem to show that ST coded all of them
2019-04-29T07:10:34 < mawk> or else they stole it and put their name on it
2019-04-29T07:13:06 < dongs> https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stm32-ides.html
2019-04-29T07:13:09 < dongs> is it linked here?
2019-04-29T07:13:26 < dongs> is that the STM32CubeIDE lol
2019-04-29T07:13:28 < Cracki> https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stm32cubeide.html
2019-04-29T07:13:35 < dongs> omg aids
2019-04-29T07:13:37 < dongs> does it include cube 
2019-04-29T07:13:41 < Cracki> of course
2019-04-29T07:13:45 < Cracki> right inside eclipse
2019-04-29T07:14:54 < dongs> fucking my.st.com is so god damn slow
2019-04-29T07:15:02 < mawk> omg they put SWO on a LED pin on the nucleo
2019-04-29T07:15:18 < mawk> that means if I want to use it I must witness the LED blinking ? can I use it at all ?
2019-04-29T07:15:29 < Cracki> so the led will blink
2019-04-29T07:15:41 < mawk> that will draw power from the line no ?
2019-04-29T07:15:45 < mawk> it will reduce the max clock speed
2019-04-29T07:15:54 < Cracki> yeeees perhaps
2019-04-29T07:15:57 < mawk> less current to load up trace capacitance
2019-04-29T07:16:00 < Cracki> so you rip the led off
2019-04-29T07:16:03 < mawk> :(
2019-04-29T07:16:05 < mawk> poor led
2019-04-29T07:16:21 < mawk> there must be a solder bridge I can remove and put back
2019-04-29T07:16:31 < mawk> but still it's lame, there are 20 free pins and they choose the LED one
2019-04-29T07:16:33 < Cracki> you can short the led's terminals
2019-04-29T07:17:08 < Cracki> nucleo... sounds like less of a devboard and more of a fashion statement
2019-04-29T07:17:20 < mawk> lol
2019-04-29T07:17:46 < Cracki> which nucleo is it anyway
2019-04-29T07:17:52 < mawk> nucleo-32, the small ones
2019-04-29T07:17:56 < mawk> nucleo-L432KC
2019-04-29T07:18:07 < mawk> no trace for me
2019-04-29T07:18:07 < Cracki> https://os.mbed.com/questions/80963/SWO-on-nucleo-L432KC/
2019-04-29T07:18:44 < Cracki> looks like it should work. they are discussing the right frequency...
2019-04-29T07:19:06 < Cracki> the graphic indicates a solder bridge on the bottom
2019-04-29T07:19:23 < mawk> right
2019-04-29T07:19:31 < mawk> so cut SB15 to get SWO, put it back to get LED
2019-04-29T07:19:36 < mawk> if I need trace one day I'll do that
2019-04-29T07:19:46 < mawk> I already cut a solder bridge to disconnect NRST from stlink
2019-04-29T07:19:47 < Cracki> oh you'll want it
2019-04-29T07:20:12 < mawk> so that I can power from user usb and not backfeed power to stlink by the reset line
2019-04-29T07:20:26 < Cracki> I put a timer in encoder input mode and put a trace on the address of the counter register. I got a nice plotted graph out of it
2019-04-29T07:20:40 < mawk> they put a diode so that 5V can't power the stlink, it's a bit dumb
2019-04-29T07:20:48 < mawk> the VIN input can power the stlink, no diode
2019-04-29T07:20:55 < Cracki> sadly, that trace interface can take global vars, and addresses, but it doesn't know register names/fields
2019-04-29T07:21:08 < Cracki> but you browse the register tree, it'll give you the address
2019-04-29T07:21:13 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-29T07:21:17 < Cracki> wait what
2019-04-29T07:21:33 < Cracki> why would you wanna power the stlink? isn't that powered by usb?
2019-04-29T07:21:59 < mawk> if I can power the stlink I'm not forced to cut the NRST line
2019-04-29T07:22:17 < mawk> which messes up the initialization when I plug in the stlink and forces me to reset manually
2019-04-29T07:22:36 < mawk> but otherwise it's powered by usb yeah
2019-04-29T07:22:39 < mawk> but safe to power before
2019-04-29T07:22:43 < mawk> it will autodetect that
2019-04-29T07:23:16 < Cracki> that sounds too messy
2019-04-29T07:24:10 < Cracki> stlink/jlink and a plain dev board (or maple mini), no fuss at all
2019-04-29T07:24:51 < Cracki> only thing I'm always worried about is having two usb connections... and the grounds being ok
2019-04-29T07:30:37 < dongs> wow
2019-04-29T07:30:42 < dongs> they did integrate cube right into the shit
2019-04-29T07:35:09 < mawk> the stlink is on board Cracki , so it ought to be powered anywya
2019-04-29T07:35:12 < mawk> even when it's not used
2019-04-29T07:35:30 < Cracki> ye but it all sounds so tiresome
2019-04-29T07:35:34 < mawk> because there are many connections between it and the MCU, if it's not powered you risk having power injection from its input pins
2019-04-29T07:35:44 < mawk> and it's exactly what happens until you cut the NRST line
2019-04-29T07:35:46 < Cracki> can't do this and that, tradeoffs everywhere
2019-04-29T07:36:03 < mawk> because of a diode they put
2019-04-29T07:36:12 < Cracki> I have to mess around less with my "bare" setup
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2019-04-29T07:40:06 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-29T07:40:12 < mawk> I'd do it if I could solder these packages
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2019-04-29T07:46:30 < Cracki> I can't/don't, I buy them from china or let the boss do it, who does all the electrical engineering :P
2019-04-29T07:47:03 < Cracki> getting a bodge wire onto the qfp of a stlink clone is about my comfort zone
2019-04-29T07:48:25 < Cracki> or spackling paste onto a hundred panels and putting them into a dicknplace, checking and nudging under the microscope, then into the oven
2019-04-29T08:08:39 < qyx> Cracki: they are getting interrupts every sinbgle byter
2019-04-29T08:08:49 < Cracki> ye
2019-04-29T08:10:02 < Cracki> and I just found out the printing people were bitching about dull black results, but they were due to shit source files, not the fault of the print head
2019-04-29T08:10:50 < Cracki> oh well, dude's just the CEO, what can go wrong
2019-04-29T08:11:01 < Cracki> not knowing what CMYK means, no biggie
2019-04-29T08:11:13 < qyx> Thorn: I wanted but PDM is more common
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2019-04-29T11:03:16 < jly> <fedevel> wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
2019-04-29T11:55:41 < qyx> the LT3652 charger has some weird mode causing the battery to be shorted or what
2019-04-29T11:55:58 < qyx> last time a series ferrite bead protected the fuse
2019-04-29T11:56:05 < qyx> now the fuse protected the rest of the circuit
2019-04-29T11:59:33 < jly> hmm
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2019-04-29T16:34:42 < aandrew> ok, being able to use a chrome extension to talk over a serial port to an nucleo-stm32f303 board running betaflight to be able to program ESCs is kind of a neat trick
2019-04-29T16:36:59 < Thorn> iirc there even was libusb for chrome(?)
2019-04-29T16:37:38 < Thorn> we heard you like requests so you can now do control requests while you do http requests
2019-04-29T16:39:31 < Thorn> how do I protect 24-bit ADC inputs from ESD? minimum leakage is needed
2019-04-29T16:51:45 < qyx> a minimum leakage protector maybe
2019-04-29T16:52:57 < qyx> I would check RF input TVS or MOV or whatever they are
2019-04-29T16:54:36 < qyx> avx antennaguard for example
2019-04-29T16:54:51 < qyx> but idk if it would actually work
2019-04-29T16:56:28 < qyx> they say they are low leakage but specs says leakage current is <0.1uA which doesn't sound very low
2019-04-29T17:01:14 < qyx> ESD7561 is 1nA
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2019-04-29T17:12:08 < zyp> Thorn, webusb is a thing
2019-04-29T17:12:26 < zyp> or was, maybe, idk what the current status is
2019-04-29T17:13:50 < Thorn> >Features: Low leakage current
2019-04-29T17:13:51 < Thorn> >Leakage current: 1µA
2019-04-29T17:13:56 < Thorn> *applause*
2019-04-29T17:14:09 < Thorn> >Package: 0201
2019-04-29T17:14:34 < Thorn> *ovation*
2019-04-29T17:14:54 < Thorn> hopefully this will do https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/ON-Semicon-ON-ESD7351HT1G_C233436.pdf
2019-04-29T17:19:50 < aandrew> Thorn: use some kind of low capacitance ESD diode. ones for high speed USB or LVDS or MIPI would probably work
2019-04-29T17:21:08 < aandrew> that's not a bad diode, wow. 50nA max leakage?
2019-04-29T17:21:26 < aandrew> is 8V clamp useful for you?
2019-04-29T17:22:04 < dongs> http://www.sunnyqi.com/upLoad/product/month_1308/AZ1045-04FRTG.pdf i use this shit but looks like its 1.5uA leakage
2019-04-29T17:22:19 < dongs> oh and 12v clamp
2019-04-29T17:22:20 < dongs> whatever
2019-04-29T17:22:32 < Thorn> they're all like that, clamping voltage with any significant current is much higher than standoff voltage
2019-04-29T17:23:06 < aandrew> sure
2019-04-29T17:23:15 < aandrew> it's a matter of what you're trying to protect against
2019-04-29T17:23:29 < Thorn> I'll have 1K resistors at the ADC inputs
2019-04-29T17:23:41 < Thorn> those should help too
2019-04-29T17:23:58 < aandrew> that will help a lot, yes
2019-04-29T17:24:26 < aandrew> you'll develop a the voltage across that for a very short amount of time while the ADC input diodes clamp to 3.3V or whatever your V+ is
2019-04-29T17:24:35 < qyx> Thorn: ESD7561 is a no go?
2019-04-29T17:24:36 < aandrew> so the power has somewhere other than the ADC to go
2019-04-29T17:24:52 < aandrew> I love chinese names
2019-04-29T17:24:57 < aandrew> "Amazing Semiconductor Corp"
2019-04-29T17:25:09 < dongs> yea like literally the only reason i use them
2019-04-29T17:25:14 < dongs> so i can say i have amazing parts on my boards
2019-04-29T17:25:17 < Thorn> Prosperity Dielectrics
2019-04-29T17:25:23 < Thorn> RFsister
2019-04-29T17:26:18 < dongs> http://distributor.amazingic.com/upfiles/english/enimage01496403877.jpg
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2019-04-29T17:28:17 < Thorn> qyx: not available @ lcsc :( but esd7351 seems to bew form the same family and has batter max leakage, so thanks for the pointer
2019-04-29T17:28:32 < Thorn> *better
2019-04-29T17:29:40 < Thorn> I wonder if you put 0201 parts in immersion oil can you observe brownian motion?
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2019-04-29T17:49:46 < aandrew> dongs: lol
2019-04-29T17:58:07 < Thorn> also standoff voltage of esd7561 is 16V
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2019-04-29T18:21:09 < qyx> with 1K resistance it should be ok, shouldn't it?
2019-04-29T18:23:06 < Thorn> maybe, but 5V is better
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2019-04-29T19:02:29 < karlp> hrm, making a symbol for a connector, will be power in on one side, power out on the other.  kicad will make me make two symbols if I want ERC to work well.
2019-04-29T19:02:55 < karlp> does altium have something smart for that? or is it just _expected_ that you ahve a separate symbol for each side of the connector?
2019-04-29T19:04:15 < karlp> for usb-a it has input, usb-b output, and usb-c is only input.
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2019-04-29T19:12:14 < jpa-> i would expect you just to mark it as passive
2019-04-29T19:12:16 < Thorn> crap, I need 7660 charge pumps for 16x2 display contrast and I don't have any :/
2019-04-29T19:12:37 < jpa-> Thorn: GPIO + two diodes + two capacitors?
2019-04-29T19:12:46 < Thorn> pcb done
2019-04-29T19:12:54 < jpa-> bodge it
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2019-04-29T19:19:12 < englishman> redirect some of that esd
2019-04-29T19:19:32 < jpa-> or just solder on a battery
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2019-04-29T19:24:53 < Thorn> esd is in a different project
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2019-04-29T22:14:39 < hetii> Hi there:)
2019-04-29T22:16:20 < hetii> I try to  create a universall programmer/debugger for AVR/STM32/uv eeprom with USB and WIFI support: https://photos.app.goo.gl/FEBEVRnxZh41Vcnt8   https://photos.app.goo.gl/sRoVG194L9TiuvBV9
2019-04-29T22:17:02 < hetii> but I have issue with bootloader size where I want to have at least minimum support for OLED screen.
2019-04-29T22:17:37 < hetii> my result code is now ~8904Kb
2019-04-29T22:18:02 < zyp> 8.9 megabytes?
2019-04-29T22:18:06 < hetii> bytes :)
2019-04-29T22:18:08 < hetii> sorry
2019-04-29T22:19:59 < zyp> so?
2019-04-29T22:20:08 < zyp> you're making your own bootloader?
2019-04-29T22:20:18 < zyp> and you've allocated 8kB for it?
2019-04-29T22:21:23 < hetii> no, I use bootloader that is implemented in blackmagic probe source code. Without my ssd1306 library the result binary is around 7500 bytes
2019-04-29T22:21:38  * qyx running L4 at 120MHz
2019-04-29T22:21:50 < zyp> yeah, but you're building you own bootloader based on that?
2019-04-29T22:23:07 < hetii> I just add oled i2c basic stuff and buffer with predefined values to display (logo), so I rid already  everything what I could
2019-04-29T22:23:44 < zyp> okay
2019-04-29T22:23:50 < qyx> ok, 140MHz still works, 160MHz no
2019-04-29T22:23:54 < qyx> at 1V8
2019-04-29T22:24:16 < zyp> hetii, just modify it to allocate more than 8kB for the bootloader then :)
2019-04-29T22:24:53 < hetii> hmm I thought that can use max 8k bootloader
2019-04-29T22:24:56 < zyp> I'd round it up to 16kB when increasing, but technically you could put the boundary between bootloader and app on any sector boundary
2019-04-29T22:25:21 < zyp> nah, it's just set up for 8k, you can change it
2019-04-29T22:26:08 < hetii> I see, Do I need to round it or it can be in any size that fit to my binary?
2019-04-29T22:27:38 < zyp> the border needs to be on a sector boundary, so you can erase the application without erasing part of the bootloader
2019-04-29T22:27:52 < zyp> but apart from that you can use any number of sectors
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2019-04-29T22:28:41 < hetii> ok thx zyp, need to educate myself more in this area.
2019-04-29T22:29:13 < mawk> what's the datasheet freq qyx ?
2019-04-29T22:30:28 < qyx> 80
2019-04-29T22:31:15 < mawk> if you increase core voltage you can go higher I guess ?
2019-04-29T22:32:06 < qyx> I guess I would fry it in this case
2019-04-29T22:32:22 < mawk> ah :(
2019-04-29T22:32:29 < qyx> I only want to test that speech codec
2019-04-29T22:32:34 < qyx> in realtime
2019-04-29T22:34:47 < Cracki> opus?
2019-04-29T22:35:41 < zyp> qyx, don't have any F4/F7/H7 devices you could test on?
2019-04-29T22:36:00 < Cracki> results for cortex a are mostly due to NEON... so be careful about any promises
2019-04-29T22:36:37 < mawk> L4 has hardfloat
2019-04-29T22:36:42 < mawk> if that helps for this
2019-04-29T22:36:47 < mawk> some L4, anyway
2019-04-29T22:36:51 < Cracki> nah, opus likes fixed point
2019-04-29T22:36:55 < mawk> ah :(
2019-04-29T22:37:01 < Cracki> hardfloat _might_ help, not sure
2019-04-29T22:38:21 < Cracki> encode, yes? decode is cheap
2019-04-29T22:38:32 < c10ud> if you don't need additional complex filtering I think you should be able to do it easily
2019-04-29T22:39:24 < Cracki> this looks commercial, but maybe they use plain opus or upstream their optimizations https://www.adaptivedigital.com/opus/
2019-04-29T22:39:27 < qyx> encoding, codec2, requires float
2019-04-29T22:39:32 < qyx> no fixedpoint
2019-04-29T22:39:50 < qyx> zyp: I have a board with PDM mic with L4
2019-04-29T22:39:50 < Cracki> ah, so not opus?
2019-04-29T22:39:52 < c10ud> iirc I almost packed opus on a double pdm m4 with some nice filtering
2019-04-29T22:40:04 < qyx> not opus
2019-04-29T22:40:15 < qyx> because opus is not low-bitrate optimized
2019-04-29T22:40:19 < Cracki> wat
2019-04-29T22:40:38 < Cracki> I don't think that statement is accurate
2019-04-29T22:40:43 < qyx> minimum for opus is 6kbit/s for speech
2019-04-29T22:40:50 < qyx> minimum for codec2 is 700bit/s
2019-04-29T22:40:55 < Cracki> how low do you need it
2019-04-29T22:40:59 < qyx> the quality differs, yes
2019-04-29T22:41:15 < Cracki> absolute minimum bitrate says nothing about quality per bitrate
2019-04-29T22:41:17 < qyx> but 6kbit/s is too much to transfer over lora
2019-04-29T22:41:45 < c10ud> qyx, is l4 worth it wrt f4?
2019-04-29T22:41:49 < Cracki> what kinda quality can you get from 700 bit/sec?
2019-04-29T22:42:15 < qyx> a robot-like voice wuality
2019-04-29T22:42:23 < qyx> c10ud: yes, newer peripherals
2019-04-29T22:42:33 < Cracki> so there's this, but no performance figures https://github.com/piratfm/codec2_m4f
2019-04-29T22:42:42 < Cracki> >CMSIS DSP library is used to accelerate encoding.
2019-04-29T22:43:10 < c10ud> yeah, that helps
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2019-04-29T22:43:50 < c10ud> qyx, 'newer'?
2019-04-29T22:45:24 < c10ud> btw, just rewrite it in fixed point and you're golden
2019-04-29T22:45:33 < Cracki> just
2019-04-29T22:45:56 < Cracki> saw some 2011 numbers on cortex a, they talked about 500 DMIPS for realtime
2019-04-29T22:46:02 < Ecco> hi :)
2019-04-29T22:47:46 < Cracki> here they run it on an f4 disco... but that runs at 168 mhz or something https://freetel-codec2.narkive.com/4ouGwBrR/codec2-on-ti-tm4c1294-launchpad
2019-04-29T22:47:53 < qyx> I am able to encode in realtime with L4 at 140MHz
2019-04-29T22:48:01 < qyx> si probably it does not require 500dmips
2019-04-29T22:48:18 < Cracki> so the goal is now to get it into 80 mhz?
2019-04-29T22:48:27 < c10ud> oh it was speex not opus
2019-04-29T22:48:33 < c10ud> what i used
2019-04-29T22:48:55 < Cracki> all these things trade complexity for bitrate
2019-04-29T22:52:01 < c10ud> Cracki, https://github.com/f4grx/c2fxp there you go
2019-04-29T22:52:20 < Cracki> performance numbers are severely lacking
2019-04-29T22:52:27 < qyx> yeah I was about to do speex
2019-04-29T22:52:46 < qyx> but it is obsolete now
2019-04-29T22:59:15 < c10ud> this fixed point implementation looks simple
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2019-04-29T23:00:08 < c10ud> also nicely written
2019-04-29T23:05:50 < zyp> qyx, so does several of the other discovery boards, no?
2019-04-29T23:06:14 < catphish> toys have arrived https://imgur.com/a/xLvA5Eo
2019-04-29T23:08:42 < qyx> zyp: I should have a F4 disco somewhere, others are nucleos without mic
2019-04-29T23:08:56 < hetii> zyp, I found in my Makefile LDFLAGS = $(LDFLAGS_BOOT) -Wl,-Ttext=0x8002000 its for 8k bootloader so I change it to 0x08005000 and then set also app_address = 0x08005000 but my bootloader seams not start now
2019-04-29T23:09:16 < hetii> Do I miss something?
2019-04-29T23:09:25 < Cracki> open the ref manual
2019-04-29T23:09:35 < Cracki> look for option bytes
2019-04-29T23:10:19 < Cracki> wait, that stuff is for "app" placement
2019-04-29T23:10:25 < Cracki> bootloader should run regardless of those things
2019-04-29T23:11:23 < hetii> yep it should be loaded always from 0x08000000 and then start main application in  0x08005000
2019-04-29T23:11:33 < hetii> at least this is how I understand how this works
2019-04-29T23:12:02 < Cracki> if your bootloader doesn't even run, something else got fucked
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2019-04-29T23:12:30 < Cracki> bootloader needs to know where to jump, and applications need to know they're sitting at +5000 or something
2019-04-29T23:12:48 < hetii> hmm odd, as I just change this address values,when back to 0x8002000 all works
2019-04-29T23:12:59 < Cracki> btw, +5000 is 20K
2019-04-29T23:13:14 < Cracki> 2000h is 8K
2019-04-29T23:13:28 < Cracki> define "works"
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2019-04-29T23:13:34 < hetii> it boot 
2019-04-29T23:13:40 < Cracki> what boots
2019-04-29T23:13:42 < Cracki> the bl or the app
2019-04-29T23:13:46 < hetii> DFU engine 
2019-04-29T23:14:02 < hetii> so I`m able then flash main applicaion
2019-04-29T23:14:04 < Cracki> rom bootloader or flash bootloader
2019-04-29T23:14:18 < hetii> bl
2019-04-29T23:14:25 < kakimir> hello hetii
2019-04-29T23:14:25 < Cracki> yes
2019-04-29T23:15:17 < hetii> hello kakimir  :)
2019-04-29T23:16:11 < Steffanx> random music for kakimir https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDJsw6dcWHU
2019-04-29T23:16:17 < kakimir> it took you a while to find your way here hetii
2019-04-29T23:16:50 < Steffanx> iirc he has been here before
2019-04-29T23:18:32 < hetii> Ok I need to go now... will start tommorow with fresh ming
2019-04-29T23:18:34 < hetii> mind
2019-04-29T23:18:41 < hetii> thx for support
2019-04-29T23:18:46 < Steffanx> good night sir
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2019-04-29T23:20:02 < Steffanx> need different musics kakimir?
2019-04-29T23:20:11 < kakimir> thanks Stef
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2019-04-29T23:31:57 < qyx> uh L4 DMA has that CSELR thing
2019-04-29T23:32:05 < qyx> to select the actual request for every channel
--- Day changed Tue Apr 30 2019
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2019-04-30T00:10:35 < englishman> https://youtu.be/vnST5rA64Oc?t=191
2019-04-30T00:10:55 < englishman> adding so many LEDs sinked to a SSD that it overheats and shuts off.
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2019-04-30T00:18:14 < mawk> how do you know that overclocking with regular voltage will fry the chip qyx ?
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2019-04-30T00:19:12 < qyx> increased core voltage is not the regular one, isn't it?
2019-04-30T00:19:25 < qyx> anyway, it works in realtime at 128MHz \o/
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2019-04-30T00:30:41 < mawk> 1V2 is the regular core voltage you mean ?
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2019-04-30T00:35:15 < englishman> why aren't you using 240MHz esp32?
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2019-04-30T00:40:15 < qyx> nobody is actually paying attention to the core problem which is speech encoding!
2019-04-30T00:43:50 < englishman> we all know you are autisming. load some python script in ragepberrerypi and you are done. whatever you are doing is for slow old men
2019-04-30T00:44:00 < Cracki> aren't there codec ics you can use
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2019-04-30T01:06:08 < qyx> interesting, that speech codec doesn't encode music very well
2019-04-30T01:07:51 < Cracki> lel
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2019-04-30T01:08:24 < qyx> but a random girl from youtube records nicely
2019-04-30T01:08:33 < Cracki> because speech
2019-04-30T01:09:21 < Cracki> I wonder how it would perform for mammal and other animal sounds
2019-04-30T01:10:04 < qyx> who would have expected a speech codec to be great for encoding speech
2019-04-30T01:10:20 < qyx> idk, I cannot make animal sounds right now
2019-04-30T01:10:42 < qyx> I have to wait till morning
2019-04-30T01:11:03 < Cracki> random youtube girl dog maybe
2019-04-30T01:11:11 < mawk> lol
2019-04-30T01:12:10 < qyx> half of the quality is lost between headphones and the PDM mic
2019-04-30T01:14:08 < qyx> I am curious what optimizations did they do in the codec2-stm32 branch
2019-04-30T01:14:15 < qyx> what order of improvement should I expect
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2019-04-30T01:57:10 < BrainDamage> there's a fantastic decode for codec2 which has insane quality, but it uses NN and it essentially fills up a modern cpu
2019-04-30T02:09:10 < mawk> NN ?
2019-04-30T02:09:11 < mawk> ah
2019-04-30T02:09:12 < mawk> neural net
2019-04-30T02:09:25 < mawk> perfect job for this new edge computing thing
2019-04-30T02:10:55 < mawk> ST packaged udev rules with their IDE, they're broken and ugly
2019-04-30T02:11:01 < mawk> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  3 avril 30 01:04 stlinkv2-1_ -> sdg
2019-04-30T02:11:01 < mawk> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 11 avril 30 01:04 stlinkv2-1_0 -> bsg/7:0:0:0
2019-04-30T02:11:01 < catphish> if i search ebay for stm32, i get tons of STM32F103C8T6 boards, does anyone know is these are wired for usb device connectivity?
2019-04-30T02:11:02 < mawk> etc
2019-04-30T02:11:13 < mawk> yes catphish
2019-04-30T02:11:26 < mawk> they're nicknamed bluepill and they have user usb
2019-04-30T02:11:36 < mawk> they don't have embedded stlink so you'll need to use your nucleo to program them
2019-04-30T02:11:45 < catphish> mawk: that's ideal, thanks
2019-04-30T02:12:01 < catphish> i'm happy using my nucleo as an external programmer
2019-04-30T02:12:13 < mawk> but three things, the stm32 core is old; the micro-usb connector is of bad quality (out of 5 I ordered one of them had broken usb connector); and they put a wrong value for the usb D+ pullup resistor
2019-04-30T02:12:19 < mawk> it should be 1.5K but they put 10K
2019-04-30T02:12:25 < mawk> so it may work on your pc, or not
2019-04-30T02:12:33 < catphish> ouch
2019-04-30T02:12:41 < mawk> I replaced this resistor on mines
2019-04-30T02:12:43 < mawk> it's a small smd
2019-04-30T02:12:57 < mawk> you can also add // resistors to make that a 1.5k, between 3.3V and D+
2019-04-30T02:12:59 < mawk> karlp would tell you all the bad he things of these blue pills
2019-04-30T02:13:12 < mawk> nucleo32 boards are also a good option if you want; it's nucleo, well supported, integrated stlink
2019-04-30T02:13:19 < mawk> no user usb port tho, you have to make your own cable
2019-04-30T02:13:44 < catphish> i mostly just want something with a user usb port
2019-04-30T02:13:55 < mawk> the big nucleo-144 boards have user usb
2019-04-30T02:13:56 < catphish> so i can test writing some usb code
2019-04-30T02:14:10 < mawk> otherwise you can look for "black pill" maybe ? it seems they are better quality
2019-04-30T02:14:21 < mawk> it's the same chip but different board
2019-04-30T02:14:25 < catphish> but also, its nice to have something with a dirt cheap stm32 on it
2019-04-30T02:14:26 < mawk> also has user usb I believe
2019-04-30T02:14:30 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-30T02:14:34 < mawk> nucleo-32 is around $10
2019-04-30T02:14:42 < catphish> so that when it works, i can just use the same chip for a real board
2019-04-30T02:15:04 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-30T02:15:11 < mawk> but the core is old
2019-04-30T02:15:14 < Cracki> catphish, look for maple mini clones, also on aliexpress. cost around 3.50 bucks but are less cancer than those bluepills
2019-04-30T02:15:15 < mawk> no nice peripherals
2019-04-30T02:15:24 < Cracki> same old core :>
2019-04-30T02:15:26 < mawk> and it won't be nicely low power
2019-04-30T02:16:04 < Cracki> they all use stm32f103 with 64 or 128k flash
2019-04-30T02:16:10 < catphish> china seems to love the STM32F103C8T6
2019-04-30T02:16:14 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-30T02:16:27 < mawk> sometimes you find a F4 on ali
2019-04-30T02:16:30 < Cracki> they latched onto the maple mini and offshoot designs
2019-04-30T02:16:30 < mawk> larger board
2019-04-30T02:16:40 < catphish> which means it's cheap, so thats a plus if it does what i want
2019-04-30T02:16:44 < Cracki> I got one of the F4 variants too. looks nice
2019-04-30T02:16:59 < mawk> but for nucleo32 and other stuff the dev board itself isn't as cheap, but it doesn't mean the bare chip won't be as expensive
2019-04-30T02:17:11 < mawk> you get all the benefits of the nice peripherals and low powerneww
2019-04-30T02:17:16 < mawk> lowpowerness*
2019-04-30T02:17:25 < catphish> i really like the l4
2019-04-30T02:17:31 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-30T02:17:39 < mawk> it's the one I have
2019-04-30T02:17:42 < mawk> L432KC
2019-04-30T02:18:34 < Cracki> get an stlink or even jlink clone if you don't have the patience to fuck with the on-nucleo stlink piece
2019-04-30T02:18:45 < mawk> for the nucleo64 it's pretty easy to use
2019-04-30T02:18:48 < Cracki> I hope it has nice jumpers to isolate it, but who knows
2019-04-30T02:18:49 < mawk> for the nucleo32 you have soldering to do
2019-04-30T02:18:54 < mawk> yes
2019-04-30T02:18:59 < mawk> just remove two jumpers and that's it
2019-04-30T02:19:09 < mawk> also hold the board on reset or it will clutter the VCP
2019-04-30T02:19:14 < Cracki> lol
2019-04-30T02:19:16 < Cracki> get a clone
2019-04-30T02:19:23 < mawk> noooo
2019-04-30T02:19:24 < Cracki> no fucking around required :>
2019-04-30T02:19:27 < mawk> remove jumper, add resistor
2019-04-30T02:19:33 < mawk> and you have VCP which you don't have with the clones
2019-04-30T02:19:41 < Cracki> ok
2019-04-30T02:19:50 < mawk> and nice drag and drop if you have down syndrome and can't use command line
2019-04-30T02:20:03 < catphish> weird, the STM32F103C8T6 on mouser is *more* than a chinese *pill board
2019-04-30T02:20:12 < catphish> none of this makes anysense
2019-04-30T02:20:24 < mawk> yeah it's wonderful how the chinese can sell things for less than what the shipping and labor would really cost
2019-04-30T02:20:27 < mawk> it always amazed me
2019-04-30T02:20:44 < Cracki> the stm32 clones, they were cs32 and gd32, yes?
2019-04-30T02:20:49 < mawk> yes
2019-04-30T02:21:25 < mawk> get bluepill and desolder the chip catphish 
2019-04-30T02:21:31 < mawk> homo economicus would do this
2019-04-30T02:21:33 < catphish> lol
2019-04-30T02:21:42 < Cracki> over a tirefire
2019-04-30T02:21:50 < Cracki> like the pros do
2019-04-30T02:21:58 < mawk> lol
2019-04-30T02:24:04 < englishman> catphish: get a l0 or g0 something modern
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2019-04-30T02:32:07 < catphish> STM32L433CBT6 seems to be what i want
2019-04-30T02:32:56 < catphish> usb device, decent clock speed and sram, modern design
2019-04-30T02:33:02 < catphish> small package
2019-04-30T02:35:22 < catphish> looks like it supports usb dfu too
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2019-04-30T03:11:58 < Cracki> modern design, how do you filter for that in their product selector
2019-04-30T03:15:18 < mawk> the usb dfu by st is just an example of a bootloader catphish 
2019-04-30T03:15:21 < mawk> you can do your own
2019-04-30T03:15:28 < mawk> as long as usb is supported you can do usb dfu
2019-04-30T03:15:43 < Cracki> rom bl is kinda convenient :>
2019-04-30T03:15:46 < mawk> it's just that the st bootloader is builtin so you can recover the board in most scenarios
2019-04-30T03:15:48 < mawk> yeah
2019-04-30T03:16:14 < Cracki> you can reset/jump to it from application code, yes?
2019-04-30T03:16:20 < mawk> yes I believe
2019-04-30T03:16:48 < catphish> mawk: the rom bl is what i meant, the one you can's break
2019-04-30T03:16:50 < mawk> you have a register to set where to map address 0, you can set it to "system area" (which is how they call the rom bl)
2019-04-30T03:16:58 < mawk> yes that's what I understood
2019-04-30T03:16:59 < catphish> *can't
2019-04-30T03:17:09 < mawk> but with clever coding you also can't break your own bootloader
2019-04-30T03:17:16 < mawk> especially if the bootloader isn't updateable
2019-04-30T03:17:31 < mawk> you just lock that particular region of flash, you make sure to not update it when you load your application package
2019-04-30T03:17:32 < mawk> and that's it
2019-04-30T03:17:34 < catphish> well that makes sense
2019-04-30T03:18:09 < mawk> and you can even make it updateable with a 2-stage bootloader, a ROM mbr that selects between two banks of bootloaders so that at every time at least one of them is working
2019-04-30T03:18:25 < mawk> it's what Android is doing
2019-04-30T03:18:52 < mawk> they have two sets of system partitions, and when doing an update they update everything on set B while being on set A, or the converse
2019-04-30T03:19:04 < mawk> A/B partitions they call that
2019-04-30T03:19:43 < Cracki> the robust way to do it.
2019-04-30T03:22:28 < aandrew> as long as you don't fuck with the reset vectors you're golden with just a USB connection
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2019-04-30T03:35:10 < karlp> for parts that have the rom dfu bootloader at least :)
2019-04-30T03:35:22 < karlp> not all usb capable parts feature the rom dfu bootloader...
2019-04-30T03:47:22 < aandrew> yes, but you can also fuck up the BOOT0/1 vectors and ROM won't save you until you use SWD to do a chip erase
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2019-04-30T04:23:44 < mawk> you mean if you disable BOOT0/BOOT1 pins aandrew ?
2019-04-30T04:23:48 < mawk> in the option bytes
2019-04-30T04:23:55 < mawk> then you could even not have SWD at all if disabled in firmware
2019-04-30T04:34:01  * catphish disables catphish in firmware
2019-04-30T04:34:39 < zyp> yeah, there's always a possibility to brick the chip, it's just a question of how major fuckups you really need to account for
2019-04-30T04:37:00 < zyp> unless there's requirements making it impossible, I personally prefer the simple solution of having a bootloader not meant to be upgraded, followed by a single application image
2019-04-30T04:38:07 < zyp> it's still possible to upgrade the bootloader by loading a second stage loader into the application image area and using that to rewrite the bootloader area
2019-04-30T04:38:39 < zyp> I used that trick to fix some issues in the bootloader on the first devices I shipped :)
2019-04-30T04:39:48 < zyp> and I'm also about to use the same trick to upgrade the bootloader on some workstuff, so I don't have to open up the enclosures to upgrade some assembled devices
2019-04-30T04:48:13 < zyp> if you want to bootload through a big comms stack with possibly unattended devices, dual application images would be the way to go
2019-04-30T04:49:08 < zyp> then you'd have a thin bootloader picking what image to boot (and possibly also acting as a standalone usb bootloader for recovery), and then the images themselves could write each other
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2019-04-30T07:48:23 < dongs> rajkosto: where the fuck is this vulcan doom thing
2019-04-30T07:48:39 < rajkosto> FOILED AGAIN
2019-04-30T07:48:53 < dongs> are you trolling me?
2019-04-30T07:49:59 < rajkosto> just compile dolphin vulkan and run super mario galaxy
2019-04-30T07:53:10 < dongs> dolphin? since when is it opensores
2019-04-30T07:53:16 < rajkosto> since 10 years ago
2019-04-30T07:53:20 < dongs> or am i thinking something else
2019-04-30T07:53:27 < dongs> which was the trash running zelda
2019-04-30T07:53:44 < rajkosto> dolphin is the gamecube/wii emulator
2019-04-30T07:53:46 < rajkosto> supports Vulkan
2019-04-30T07:53:51 < rajkosto> supports linucks
2019-04-30T07:53:56 < rajkosto> should build and run
2019-04-30T07:53:56 < dongs> gay
2019-04-30T07:54:07 < rajkosto> theres no way you would run Botw emulated on an ARM cpu
2019-04-30T07:54:18 < rajkosto> you could run it virtualized though
2019-04-30T07:54:25 < dongs> isnt it already made for arm anyway
2019-04-30T07:54:28 < rajkosto> just change Yuzu to not recompile
2019-04-30T07:54:28 < dongs> (switch? or wahtever
2019-04-30T07:54:30 < rajkosto> and instead virtualize
2019-04-30T07:54:43 < rajkosto> the switch is a TX1 which is very similar to the nano
2019-04-30T07:59:38 < dongs> lol wut i was just looking inside altidongs install
2019-04-30T07:59:42 < dongs> and theres libavcodec adn shit in there
2019-04-30T07:59:44 < dongs> the fuck is that for
2019-04-30T07:59:50 < rajkosto> rendering 3d mobies
2019-04-30T07:59:53 < dongs> no?
2019-04-30T07:59:58 < rajkosto> why not
2019-04-30T07:59:59 < dongs> they're using teighaX for that
2019-04-30T08:00:04 < dongs> commercial 3d/mesh thing
2019-04-30T08:00:16 < dongs> i dont think libavcodec supports any 3d shite anyway
2019-04-30T08:00:18 < rajkosto> i thought you could animate the 3d views in altium
2019-04-30T08:00:26 < rajkosto> and it would capture each one as an image
2019-04-30T08:00:32 < rajkosto> then give the image sequence to libavcodec to make into a movie
2019-04-30T08:00:39 < dongs> what, where is the UI for that
2019-04-30T08:00:41 < rajkosto> each frame*
2019-04-30T08:00:43 < dongs> first time i heard of this
2019-04-30T08:00:48 < rajkosto> its in there
2019-04-30T08:00:52 < rajkosto> never used it but seen it on presentations
2019-04-30T08:01:03 < rajkosto> "render out a fold out animation of your device" etc
2019-04-30T08:01:10 < dongs> oh that shit
2019-04-30T08:01:37 < rajkosto> im just guessing what else would they be using libavcodec for
2019-04-30T08:05:38 < dongs> fuck you altinigger
2019-04-30T08:05:43 < dongs> upgrade from 18>19
2019-04-30T08:05:48 < dongs> loads up in fucking nigger theme
2019-04-30T08:05:53 < dongs> god damn blind hipsterniggerfaggots
2019-04-30T08:05:54 < dongs> FUCK
2019-04-30T08:06:02 < dongs> doesnt import fucking color overide mode either
2019-04-30T08:07:04 < dongs> why ask to import if you not gonna do it
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2019-04-30T09:24:58 < dongs> whye the fuck the old altium color picker is fucking gone
2019-04-30T09:25:03 < dongs> i liked those high contrast colors
2019-04-30T09:25:13 < dongs> they replaced it with teh fucking bullshit officestyle color picker with only gay shit in it
2019-04-30T09:25:16 < dongs> fucking niggers
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2019-04-30T12:03:29 < jly> The N award for april 2019
2019-04-30T12:06:04 < jly> so far 20 uses, an improvement of 12 in march
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2019-04-30T14:22:34 < invzim> zyp: ?
2019-04-30T14:23:27 < zyp> sup?
2019-04-30T14:24:15 < invzim> just got a call from bring 
2019-04-30T14:24:31 < invzim> do you have a stamp, or put a stamp sticker on your shipments?
2019-04-30T14:24:35 < zyp> your CN22 is not good enough?
2019-04-30T14:24:42 < invzim> no complaints on it..
2019-04-30T14:24:43 < zyp> the postage paid one?
2019-04-30T14:24:50 < invzim> no idea
2019-04-30T14:25:00 < invzim> frankeringsmerke or stempel
2019-04-30T14:25:15 < zyp> https://www.bring.no/radgivning/sende-noe/klargjoring/klisjeer-og-merker
2019-04-30T14:25:53 < invzim> so you print that as part of your label?
2019-04-30T14:26:02 < zyp> yes, also the A-post mark
2019-04-30T14:26:43 < zyp> before I made these labels, I thought about buying a stamp, but they weren't in stock at the time
2019-04-30T14:27:58 < invzim> hm, got 20 shipments in transit without any of that stuff :(
2019-04-30T14:28:14 < invzim> may just go fedex exclusively
2019-04-30T14:28:26 < zyp> https://eordre.posten.no/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=12300&sitex=10042:50959:N&parentSection=10915 <- you can buy the stamp here
2019-04-30T14:28:47 < zyp> but IMO it's easier to just print everything on one label
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2019-04-30T14:40:30 < dongs> does zypsnips have rj45 links
2019-04-30T14:41:05 < Thorn> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/the-art-of-electronics-x-chapters/
2019-04-30T14:41:13 < dongs> ah it does
2019-04-30T14:42:53 < Thorn> dongs: https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Ethernet-Connectors-Modular-Connectors-RJ45-RJ11_Zhongshan-HanRun-Elec-HR913129A_C70302.html
2019-04-30T14:42:59 < Thorn> what I use
2019-04-30T14:43:09 < dongs> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Ethernet-Connectors-Modular-Connectors-RJ45-RJ11_Zhongshan-HanRun-Elec-HR913550A_C163507.html
2019-04-30T14:43:12 < dongs> but this is half price
2019-04-30T14:43:14 < dongs> of your link
2019-04-30T14:45:08 < dongs> the zypsnips hanrun ha the most stock tho
2019-04-30T14:46:32 < Thorn> I think mine was the cheapest when I ordered it
2019-04-30T14:46:49 < dongs> im just gonna confirm its still same clone pinout and go from there
2019-04-30T14:48:06 < Thorn> it can be subtly different. I remember making a footprint that would fit 2 different jacks
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2019-04-30T14:52:22 < dongs> karlp: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/ethernet-phys-jacks.txt#L20 identical footprint.
2019-04-30T14:53:59 < dongs> err, i think that was meant to be for jpa- 
2019-04-30T14:54:04 < dongs> jpa-: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/ethernet-phys-jacks.txt#L20 identical footprint.
2019-04-30T14:54:11 < dongs> why did i think karlp maintains zypsnips
2019-04-30T14:55:13 < zyp> because it says karlp in the url
2019-04-30T14:56:59 < dongs> oh hm it does
2019-04-30T14:57:08 < dongs> oh, i looked at /topic in wrong place
2019-04-30T14:57:14 < dongs> i was looking at logs url
2019-04-30T14:57:17 < dongs> too fucking stoned
2019-04-30T14:57:32 < zyp> apparently
2019-04-30T14:58:55 < dongs> zyp, is that what you used?
2019-04-30T14:58:57 < dongs> for magjack
2019-04-30T14:59:15 < dongs> hmm i am not finding footprint for one
2019-04-30T14:59:22 < dongs> despite having clear memories of making shit with ehternt
2019-04-30T14:59:23 < Thorn> https://www.dropbox.com/s/aemtyly16mtj87n/Op-amps_High-speed_ch4x_DRAFT.pdf?dl=0
2019-04-30T14:59:36 < Thorn> still alive.mp3
2019-04-30T14:59:36 < zyp> I'm guessing I used HR911105A on my shit
2019-04-30T14:59:51 < zyp> since it's a while ago
2019-04-30T14:59:59 < dongs> do you remember what amphenol/etc its a clone of?
2019-04-30T15:00:22 < zyp> no, I made the footprint directly from the HR datasheet
2019-04-30T15:00:38 < zyp> since you recommended that one before I made a footprint
2019-04-30T15:00:43 < dongs> right
2019-04-30T15:00:54 < dongs> so im figuring out where the fuck footprint is that i made for it
2019-04-30T15:01:01 < dongs> i must have called it the original one which is whty i dont see it
2019-04-30T15:01:14 < dongs> not hR but whatever it was cloned from
2019-04-30T15:01:56 < dongs> pulsejack is fucking insane
2019-04-30T15:02:07 < dongs> $6.25 for what costs $0.80 from hanrun
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2019-04-30T15:42:59 < jpa-> dongs: i know karlp's password, but i prefer not to update the repo so that he doesn't know i've stolen it
2019-04-30T15:43:58 < dongs> seriously how do i go back to old color picker in altidumb
2019-04-30T15:43:59 < dongs> holy shit
2019-04-30T15:44:03 < dongs> this shit is retarded
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2019-04-30T15:44:30 < dongs> https://www.altium.com/documentation/18.0/display/ADES/Client_Dlg-NewChooseColorForm((Choose+Color))_AD
2019-04-30T15:44:40 < dongs> i want this shit bacj
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2019-04-30T15:49:03 < zyp> have you tried just installing older altium?
2019-04-30T15:49:37 < dongs> but then i miss out on all the new bugs
2019-04-30T15:50:22 < zyp> aww
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2019-04-30T16:17:06 < aandrew> I'm still running altium 17
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2019-04-30T16:35:18 < qyx> https://www.ev-power.eu/out/pictures/z3/3577-img_0331_z3.jpg
2019-04-30T16:35:21 < qyx> such awful connector
2019-04-30T16:35:44 < zyp> eww
2019-04-30T16:35:46 < zyp> what's that?
2019-04-30T16:35:55 < aandrew> that is gross
2019-04-30T16:36:11 < zyp> ebike stuff?
2019-04-30T16:36:31 < qyx> yes
2019-04-30T16:36:43 < qyx> https://www.ev-power.eu/EVBike-electric-bikes/?cur=1
2019-04-30T16:37:26 < qyx> it reminds me those nice binder connectors
2019-04-30T16:37:30 < qyx> probably a china replacement
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2019-04-30T16:38:14 < qyx> https://www.binder-usa.com/products/miniature-circular-connectors/snap-in-ip67.html
2019-04-30T16:38:51 < karlp> are those different sized pins for power/keying?
2019-04-30T16:39:39 < zyp> power, probably
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2019-04-30T16:40:58 < zyp> my ebike kit are using these connectors: http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/17/19/64/38/img_2713.jpg
2019-04-30T16:41:15 < zyp> they are nice
2019-04-30T16:42:09 < qyx> yeah they have those too
2019-04-30T16:43:42 < karlp> jpa-: my git hub password? are you just stirring or what?
2019-04-30T16:47:59 < zyp> that seemed like a pretty obvious joke to me
2019-04-30T16:48:09 < zyp> not very funny, but still obvious
2019-04-30T16:57:49 < dongs> https://github.com/Rawgeek/raspberry-tlc5947 see url, OK right? then click it.
2019-04-30T17:00:10  * qyx opening private window
2019-04-30T17:00:19 < dongs> its not THAT bad
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2019-04-30T17:00:29 < hetii> Hi :)
2019-04-30T17:00:51 < hetii> Is it possible to corrupt build in bootloader in stm32f103?
2019-04-30T17:00:57 < dongs> no
2019-04-30T17:01:08 < dongs> its in flash area that's considered to be "ROM"
2019-04-30T17:01:20 < dongs> (its still flash since its not real mask rom, but you can't erase/fuck with it
2019-04-30T17:02:42 < karlp> dongs: are you just ocmmenting on the quality of the adafroot comments?
2019-04-30T17:03:01 < dongs> karlp: the link?
2019-04-30T17:03:05 < dongs> no, tne node.jews part
2019-04-30T17:03:52 < hetii> dongs, so even when I play with RDP functionality or with memmory regions defined in *.ld file still it should be protected?
2019-04-30T17:04:02 < dongs> yeah
2019-04-30T17:04:10 < dongs> why would you tihnk "memory regions" in ld file woudl have any effect on it
2019-04-30T17:04:37 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvvZaBf9QQI lol waht is this shit
2019-04-30T17:04:45 < karlp> dongs: what about it? there's node.js blah for ~everything thes days?
2019-04-30T17:04:47 < hetii> I ask cause I set proper jumper and after reset my mcu I try burn new bootloader by stm32loader.py and it raise __main__.CmdException: NACK 0x43
2019-04-30T17:04:50 < karlp> try this link for fun instead: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.electronics.design/bQ5fG5FsUzw
2019-04-30T17:04:57 < karlp> they're competing with us for quality language
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2019-04-30T17:06:55 < karlp> heh, that trailer looks..... horrirlbyyyy
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2019-04-30T17:12:58 < hetii> dongs, it seams it fails on cmdEraseMemory, so probably my mcu is somehow locked and cannot be erased
2019-04-30T17:13:07 < dongs> i dont think so
2019-04-30T17:13:15 < hetii> any clue how to reset it under linux?
2019-04-30T17:13:22 < dongs> no, i only use a real OS
2019-04-30T17:13:27 < karlp> you're probably trying to tell it to erase memory that's not real.
2019-04-30T17:13:28 < dongs> do you not have swd?
2019-04-30T17:14:09 < hetii> no,  I use use rs232 dongle connected to A9 and A10
2019-04-30T17:14:47 < dongs> im too lazy to read if one of hte ROP options on F103 disables bootloader jump
2019-04-30T17:14:48 < hetii> karlp, yep, but many times before all works and I was able to burn fresh bootloader by that way
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2019-04-30T17:15:56 < hetii> dongs, I play with it on blue pill board where boot0 is set to 1 and boot1 to 0 (as I have that before and should establish bootloader stored in rom)
2019-04-30T17:16:19 < hetii> All that works before so that`s why I wonder what happens now
2019-04-30T17:17:35 < qyx> karlp: heh it starts in the middle
2019-04-30T17:18:25 < hetii> If my jumpers are set wrong then I got: Can't init. Ensure that BOOT0 is enabled and reset device, so some initialization happens when I set them right.
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2019-04-30T17:22:26 < jpa-> karlp: sorry for bad jokes :P
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2019-04-30T17:26:01 < bitmask> whats the best cheap addressable led strips
2019-04-30T17:30:43 < Thorn> bitmask: btf-lighting on aliexpress seems to be very popular, I bought ~15 reels of ws2812b and ws2813 strip from them
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2019-04-30T17:31:14 < bitmask> thanks, I was wondering if apa or sk were cheaper, but I might as well stick with what I'm used to
2019-04-30T17:31:49 < Thorn> I don't think those would be cheaper than ws281x
2019-04-30T17:31:53 < bitmask> oh ok
2019-04-30T17:32:05 < bitmask> now I gotta decide how many I want per meter
2019-04-30T17:32:06 < Thorn> at least that was the case last year
2019-04-30T17:32:30 < Thorn> I got 30/m but most people seem to use 60/m
2019-04-30T17:32:40 < bitmask> im between 60 and 144
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2019-04-30T17:33:02 < bitmask> its for an infinity mirror project
2019-04-30T17:33:22 < Thorn> I've got 1m of 144, you can do some unique effect with them but it's expensive
2019-04-30T17:33:29 < bitmask> yea it is
2019-04-30T17:33:43 < bitmask> I probably only need a meter or two though
2019-04-30T17:35:01 < bitmask> I kinda wanna see how solid light options work in infinity mirrors, from pics they look awesome but would be pretty expensive if you want rgb control, like laser with fiber optic light stuffs
2019-04-30T17:35:08 < bitmask> the side glow stuff
2019-04-30T17:36:35 < Thorn> if you put 144/m strip under some diffuse plastic you won't really see individual leds
2019-04-30T17:36:40 < aandrew> well my new stm32s arrived. time to replace the ones on these last two boards and see if this fixes the issue (one is read protected and cannot unprotect and the other has this odd "can't write every other 128 bits in flash" error that I had with other boards but replacing the stm32 fixed)
2019-04-30T17:36:57 < Thorn> it will look like a solid line of light
2019-04-30T17:36:58 < bitmask> true, i'll look into some diffusers
2019-04-30T17:37:34 < bitmask> I also gotta decide how I want to show digits, some kind of 7 segment thing, either have the 7 segments glow (3d print them in white) or outline the segments in leds
2019-04-30T17:37:38 < bitmask> probably the former
2019-04-30T17:38:30 < Thorn> I've recently seen a large 7-segment display made of hot glue sticks
2019-04-30T17:38:45 < Thorn> with 5mm leds pressed against the edges
2019-04-30T17:38:54 < bitmask> heh, I have a 3d printed 7-segment clock that uses esp for ntp
2019-04-30T17:39:32 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/make:532876
2019-04-30T17:39:35 < bitmask> thats my make
2019-04-30T17:41:07 < bitmask> this new infinity mirror project is going on the wall next to it, gonna shape it like a cloud and have it show the temperature
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2019-04-30T17:42:07 < hetii> Ok I found solution to my issue, my flash was write protected and to erase it I need to execute: stm32flash -k /dev/ttyUSB0
2019-04-30T17:50:24 < mawk> Steffanx: I'm sending a resumee to rotterdam city council
2019-04-30T17:50:28 < mawk> for they harbour concession
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2019-04-30T18:17:02 < aandrew> motherfuck
2019-04-30T18:17:14 < aandrew> was in the middle of reflow and the damn temp probe hit the bga
2019-04-30T18:18:04 < aandrew> that stm32 I'll reball
2019-04-30T18:18:57 < mawk> lol
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2019-04-30T18:32:28 < qyx> did it died?
2019-04-30T18:32:57 < Thorn> an opportunity to tell the iso c++ committee all that you think about them https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/NCMCJDZ
2019-04-30T18:36:51 < qyx> c++ is a paškvil
2019-04-30T18:37:08 < aandrew> qyx: well when everything is molten and you bump the fucking bga you have to reball it becuase now the solder balls are no longer uniform
2019-04-30T18:37:23 < aandrew> and replacing this stm32 did not fix the "cannot unlock" issue, interesting
2019-04-30T18:37:36 < aandrew> it definitely fixed the every other 128 bits is unwritable error
2019-04-30T18:38:03 < aandrew> I wonder what hardware error would make an stm32f756 force itself into read protection
2019-04-30T18:38:08 < aandrew> (protect level 1)
2019-04-30T18:41:48 < Thorn> one of gnd balls not touching?
2019-04-30T18:42:26 < specing> protip: don't use BGA
2019-04-30T18:42:37 < specing> use lqfp-208 haha!
2019-04-30T18:45:02 < qyx> there is 130uA leakage between PE (ground) and a 12Vdc light cover
2019-04-30T18:45:07 < qyx> making ~105Vac
2019-04-30T18:45:14 < qyx> what may be wrong
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2019-04-30T18:45:55 < qyx> looks like cap coupled
2019-04-30T18:46:17 < qyx> the power supply is meant to be SELV and DC +/- is not connected to the cover
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2019-04-30T18:51:31 < Thorn> https://i.imgur.com/cMFKflK.png
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2019-04-30T20:01:31 < Steffanx> wut city council, mawk?
2019-04-30T20:06:07 < mawk> the city hall
2019-04-30T20:06:39 < mawk> they run the harbor
2019-04-30T20:06:44 < mawk> there must be some electronics there
2019-04-30T20:06:50 < mawk> with vehicles moving cargo around
2019-04-30T20:07:04 < mawk> and I know a girl that works there
2019-04-30T20:07:44 < Thorn> do I need LSE?
2019-04-30T20:07:57 < mawk> if you don't use RTC not really
2019-04-30T20:08:03 < mawk> but sometimes LSE is used to calibrate other clocks
2019-04-30T20:08:18 < mawk> for instance on L4 you can do usb without external oscillator, by using LSE to calibrate MSI
2019-04-30T20:08:29 < Thorn> I'm going to use RTC to sync my radio MAC
2019-04-30T20:08:35 < Thorn> to the beacons
2019-04-30T20:09:04 < mawk> because you're going to sleep between beacons ?
2019-04-30T20:09:14 < mawk> between superframes rather
2019-04-30T20:09:39 < Thorn> yes
2019-04-30T20:10:06 < mawk> maybe LSI can be used
2019-04-30T20:10:11 < mawk> but I'm not sure if LSI even exists
2019-04-30T20:11:39 < Thorn> https://i.imgur.com/W2y05IF.png
2019-04-30T20:13:14 < Thorn> LSI does exist on L0
2019-04-30T20:16:03 < Thorn> I've got exactly 2 free pins on the mcu
2019-04-30T20:25:20 < qyx> mawk: do you want to work there or the girl?
2019-04-30T20:26:06 < qyx> Thorn: is your ptoto tdma?
2019-04-30T20:26:11 < qyx> or just scheduled wakeup?
2019-04-30T20:27:33 < Thorn> I'm planning to try timeslots
2019-04-30T20:27:45 < Thorn> so that I don't have to LBT
2019-04-30T20:28:14 < Thorn> anyway it would be instructive to try as many options as I can
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2019-04-30T20:29:51 < qyx> I have a WIP since 2014 for that
2019-04-30T20:30:15 < qyx> fhss/tdma with dynamic freq/slot allocation
2019-04-30T20:30:26 < qyx> and mesh of course, not star
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2019-04-30T20:31:27 < qyx> anyway, in a larger network you will be unable to sync all clocks in a reasonable way
2019-04-30T20:31:39 < qyx> so it doesn't matter what clock do you use
2019-04-30T20:31:59 < qyx> and just keep a table of clock adjustments between you and every peer
2019-04-30T20:32:05 < qyx> but idk if this works in your setup
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2019-04-30T20:43:15 < mawk> I want to work there, qyx 
2019-04-30T20:43:20 < mawk> the girl is just a way to get in
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2019-04-30T21:06:03 < Steffanx> meh jlcpcb "Orders placed after 6pm, April 30th GMT+8 will be processed on May 3rd.". What's happening in china?
2019-04-30T21:10:43 < Thorn> Labor Day
2019-04-30T21:10:58 < Thorn> same as here (but we have almost 2 weeks of holidays starting tomorrow)
2019-04-30T21:11:28 < Thorn> (isn't Labor Day supposed to be celebrated by working?)
2019-04-30T21:12:19 < Steffanx> in dutchland we just work.
2019-04-30T21:12:23 < Steffanx> not even celebrate it.
2019-04-30T21:12:33 < Steffanx> not really at least
2019-04-30T21:15:10 < kakimir> hello steff
2019-04-30T21:15:15 < kakimir> hello cubes
2019-04-30T21:18:23 < Steffanx> welcome mr kakimir. Hows the day
2019-04-30T21:19:01 < kakimir> snorting flux
2019-04-30T21:19:17 < kakimir> now chills
2019-04-30T21:19:21 < ds2> is this the literal May day that seem to drive a lot of communist countries?
2019-04-30T21:19:41 < kakimir> is this may day?
2019-04-30T21:19:50 < kakimir> I thought it was vappu
2019-04-30T21:20:06 < kakimir> or vappen in swedish
2019-04-30T21:21:48 < qyx> Thorn: 1.5 and 8.5?
2019-04-30T21:22:42 < Thorn> qyx: https://www.garant.ru/files/6/6/1221866/kalendar_2019(2).jpg
2019-04-30T21:23:01 < kakimir> vappu is the main event of university student year calendar
2019-04-30T21:24:37 < qyx> Thorn: lol
2019-04-30T21:25:07 < qyx> interesting, you are moving free days if they occur on sat/sun?
2019-04-30T21:25:30 < Thorn> yes always
2019-04-30T21:27:47 < Steffanx> you idnt span this yet today Thorn? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPfHHls50-w
2019-04-30T21:28:56 < Thorn> it's a replay 
2019-04-30T21:29:00 < Steffanx> it is?
2019-04-30T21:29:11 < Thorn> from April 11
2019-04-30T21:29:20 < Thorn> https://www.spacex.com/news/2019/04/12/arabsat-6a-mission
2019-04-30T21:29:22 < Steffanx> hm wut
2019-04-30T21:29:38 < Thorn> that channel streams recorded launches and makes it look like they're live
2019-04-30T21:29:46 < Steffanx> ah
2019-04-30T21:29:47 < qyx> your rtc is wrong Steffanx 
2019-04-30T21:32:40 < Steffanx> i never even looked at the date of the vid :P
2019-04-30T21:33:21 < Steffanx> they fooled me though
2019-04-30T21:34:29 < Thorn> lots of fooled people in the chat there lol
2019-04-30T21:37:50 < Cracki> ah you've found the assholes
2019-04-30T21:48:34 < PaulFertser> What would be the right dictionary/encyclopedia to establish if "Cardan shaft" is really the same as "drive shaft" or is it only the certain kind of a "drive shaft" which has a universal joint ("Cardan joint")?
2019-04-30T21:53:15 < mawk> wikipedia would be the best choice PaulFertser 
2019-04-30T21:53:22 < mawk> if enough fighting happened in the discussion page
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2019-04-30T21:53:35 < qyx> karlp: have you considered using cache for Travis?
2019-04-30T21:54:02 < qyx> gcc-arm-embedded install takes ages
2019-04-30T21:54:39 < PaulFertser> mawk: heh, that doesn't seem to be a reliable way to establish technical terms' meanings :)
2019-04-30T21:56:19 < mawk> you've got very technical stuff on wikipedia
2019-04-30T21:56:22 < mawk> look at the maths articles
2019-04-30T21:57:27 < PaulFertser> Math articles there are great indeed, moderated by mathematicians themselves.
2019-04-30T21:59:14 < karlp> qyx: that's the first time anyone's complained about it, but sure? tell me how to do it
2019-04-30T22:03:18 < qyx> karlp: I do it this way https://github.com/iqyx/plumcore/blob/develop/.travis.yml#L18
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2019-04-30T22:06:29 < Cracki> I wouldn't call that great. in too many instances, even though the math is probably right, they don't bother explaining it
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2019-04-30T22:08:52 < PaulFertser> I got an impression some math is just impossible to "explain" :) Probably due to reading those very articles.
2019-04-30T22:09:19 < Cracki> it's the same principle I keep encountering at uni
2019-04-30T22:09:39 < Cracki> they whack you with the definition, hump it for 10 minutes, and THEN give you an example
2019-04-30T22:10:40 < Cracki> so the matter itself is quite comprehensible... but the order of presentation causes frustration and wastes time
2019-04-30T22:11:37 < PaulFertser> Don't you think that it's useless to explain most modern math concepts to somebody who's not actually studying the related fields? What good would be of vague analogies and loosy abstractions?
2019-04-30T22:12:24 < PaulFertser> lousy
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2019-04-30T22:14:06 < Cracki> futility of explaining to a disinterested audience? that goes for everything
2019-04-30T22:14:22 < PaulFertser> Regarding your uni, Cracki, I guess if this approach works for most of the students it means you are in minority who needs it reversed.
2019-04-30T22:14:40 < Cracki> same for prerequisites... but then wikipedia could work on making those assumptions more explicit
2019-04-30T22:15:05 < Cracki> it's useless for wp math articles to be like "we're just a cheat sheet, we are not here to explain anything"
2019-04-30T22:15:26 < Cracki> wrong, PaulFertser. it doesn't work for most.
2019-04-30T22:15:42 < Cracki> the lecturers are just not teachers, they're researchers who have no clue how to present things.
2019-04-30T22:15:58 < PaulFertser> Would ZFC article be an example of a good or bad one for you?
2019-04-30T22:16:02 < Cracki> they think definitions have to go first because that's how everyone they know does it,a nd they think that's the "proper" way
2019-04-30T22:16:17 < Cracki> since I already have a clue about ZFC, I am biased
2019-04-30T22:16:29 < Cracki> oh wait zfc, not zkp
2019-04-30T22:17:46 < Cracki> intro is dense, that's for sure. the axioms themselves look to have short paragraphs
2019-04-30T22:19:42 < PaulFertser> Encyclopedia is not a textbook too.
2019-04-30T22:19:44 < Cracki> many "teachers" also think it's a good idea to teach in historical order... when history not only had successive refinements and concurrent theories, but also deadends
2019-04-30T22:20:38 < Cracki> encyclopedia is also not a cheat sheet, but they have grown beyond short articles giving you merely an idea how to place something in a greater context
2019-04-30T22:21:11 < PaulFertser> Sometimes "going along the way" of a discovery can give plenty of "intuition" and background and hence provide for a more solid understanding of a new concept.
2019-04-30T22:21:25 < PaulFertser> You need examples for the "intution" right?
2019-04-30T22:22:20 < Cracki> it sounds like you want to show me I'm wrong using my own words
2019-04-30T22:22:49 < Cracki> certainly arguing against my words, rather than what I meant, is easier
2019-04-30T22:23:23 < PaulFertser> No, not really, I'm trying to understand you better, and for that I'm trying to evaluate your words from different points of view, to see what you really meant and what you didn't.
2019-04-30T22:23:25 < Cracki> by teaching historically, I mean teaching models that are later made obsolete
2019-04-30T22:23:52 < Cracki> later meaning in two weeks of lecture time
2019-04-30T22:24:08 < PaulFertser> Please keep in mind I'm missing most of your context, I've never been taught at your university, and I actually never studied math.
2019-04-30T22:24:42 < Cracki> my uni is one of the snobbier ones. even the students pride themselves on having to suffer through it.
2019-04-30T22:25:01 < Cracki> it's awful in that regard, but they are good at their research and they know their subject matters
2019-04-30T22:25:25 < Cracki> the rare professor knows how to teach, which is a delight
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2019-04-30T22:25:48 < PaulFertser> I wonder how they come with wrong way to teach others while they must be successful with teaching themselves (during their research)?
2019-04-30T22:26:32 < Cracki> I have no patience for set theory, category theory, and people who love haskell... so I am probably ignorant about a lot of it. "deadend" was meant to refer to cantor's set theory being superseded by ZF
2019-04-30T22:27:26 < Cracki> they teach cantor's set theory only so they can show you "hah, there's a paradox!". they could have taught it in a different order, and still be able to explain the paradox. contrasts are valid from both sides.
2019-04-30T22:27:41 < PaulFertser> (heh, the only teacher I had that claimed he's teaching us in the best possible way and that's how he'd like to be tought himself was a nuthead who couldn't really teach anybody anything, being too dizzy with any interaction with people) 
2019-04-30T22:27:42 < Cracki> research isn't teaching yourself
2019-04-30T22:28:29 < Cracki> research is making a model, making predictions, collecting data, and seeing if the predictions hold
2019-04-30T22:28:38 < PaulFertser> They still have to grasp new meanings, new concepts. It's not like they only use what they already know or discover/invent themselves.
2019-04-30T22:28:55 < PaulFertser> Eh, that doesn't sound like a math research to me :)
2019-04-30T22:29:07 < Cracki> math doesn't have data, does it
2019-04-30T22:29:45 < Cracki> ahem, "math doesn't have numbers, does it"
2019-04-30T22:30:04 < PaulFertser> You describe something that models real life objects, not mathematical abstractions.
2019-04-30T22:30:28 < Cracki> these people are too far removed from mere mortal students. they can't comprehend that intuition takes time to form.
2019-04-30T22:30:45 < PaulFertser> I guess yes, plenty of math doesn't have numbers.
2019-04-30T22:30:49 < Cracki> it's probably a national phenomenon
2019-04-30T22:31:12 < Cracki> every time I read a german paper, it shows
2019-04-30T22:31:36 < Cracki> denser and more rigorous in math than papers from any other nation
2019-04-30T22:32:29 < Cracki> and lacking in explanation/intuition... that also means that papers from other nations sometimes don't _really_ explain what they did
2019-04-30T22:32:35 < Cracki> it's more handwaving
2019-04-30T22:32:45 < PaulFertser> Bourbaki were from France though :)
2019-04-30T22:32:56 < Cracki> if they'd teach using papers, that might be different. papers at least go through a peer review.
2019-04-30T22:33:09 < Cracki> you can inflict yourself on students without any peer review at all.
2019-04-30T22:34:13 < Cracki> and students complaining about lack of teaching methods are "heard" but considered incapable of holding a valid opinion, so they're ignored
2019-04-30T22:35:05 < Cracki> they think themselves benevolent when they are like "we know better what's good for the students"
2019-04-30T22:35:38 < Cracki> well, even if the students have no clue, _they_ don't either
2019-04-30T22:36:27 < Cracki> when they discuss research with each other in front of whiteboards or whatever, they always use examples. definitions only shape up in the process, they are a product.
2019-04-30T22:37:32 < PaulFertser> Is it impossible for a student to discuss this topic with them in a friendly private atmosphere?
2019-04-30T22:37:33 < Cracki> it's a kind of pride, like a dog bringing a particularly big stick to his owner, when they hold up their definitions, and go like "look at this masterpiece!"
2019-04-30T22:37:44 < Cracki> which topic?
2019-04-30T22:38:11 < Cracki> there is no structural desire or need to learn teaching methods around here
2019-04-30T22:38:13 < PaulFertser> Of giving students more examples before the rigourous definitions
2019-04-30T22:38:22 < PaulFertser> And other issues with understanding
2019-04-30T22:39:17 < Cracki> like anything, first you have to wake up the sheep. if you go to the worst offenders right now, they shrug it off because enough people pass the exams and too few point out improvements.
2019-04-30T22:39:38 < Cracki> "more" examples...  sounds like you think they give any at all
2019-04-30T22:40:11 < Cracki> often you can skip the lectures and only go to the "exercises" where the assistant works the problems
2019-04-30T22:40:49 < Cracki> that is a universally acknowledged pattern. you go to the assistants or tutors if you want something explained.
2019-04-30T22:41:19 < Cracki> lectures are for literally listening to the white bearded dude reading his script.
2019-04-30T22:41:39 < Cracki> and script means huge list of definitions and axioms and lemmas.
2019-04-30T22:41:49 < qyx> where? in .de?
2019-04-30T22:41:52 < Cracki> yes
2019-04-30T22:41:55 < PaulFertser> There's a problem with examples/exercises though: it's sometimes too easy to "grasp" the "solution template" instead of understanding the topic.
2019-04-30T22:41:55 < Cracki> not everywhere
2019-04-30T22:42:06 < Cracki> .de has higher teaching instutitions that teach
2019-04-30T22:42:10 < qyx> oh, the same here, I though it is different in the west
2019-04-30T22:42:21 < Cracki> lol don't bet on it
2019-04-30T22:42:52 < Cracki> it's not a function of where you are (west or not), it's a matter of whether they get paid to teach or not
2019-04-30T22:43:03 < qyx> yeah
2019-04-30T22:43:14 < Cracki> a lot of these people have been doing their lectures for a decade or longer. nothing really changes anymore.
2019-04-30T22:43:41 < kakimir> what is the hardest to debug target you have had?
2019-04-30T22:43:57 < qyx> attiny
2019-04-30T22:44:05 < kakimir> nope
2019-04-30T22:44:06 < Cracki> avr with just a programming header and no debug at all
2019-04-30T22:44:18 < qyx> that too
2019-04-30T22:44:31 < Cracki> hard meaning I had to go at it with a LA to know anythign at all
2019-04-30T22:44:52 < kakimir> hmm
2019-04-30T22:45:00 < Cracki> no serial out pin, and couldn't be assed to do soft serial for some printlining
2019-04-30T22:45:24 < kakimir> you could implement application level debugging interface
2019-04-30T22:45:33 < Cracki> wats dat
2019-04-30T22:45:46 < kakimir> gpio interrupt to halt it
2019-04-30T22:46:00 < qyx> you cannot do anything if the chip has 6x gpio running on internal osc
2019-04-30T22:46:02 < Cracki> can't halt the whole system it's embedded in
2019-04-30T22:46:15 < qyx> and all gpios are connected to not very toggleable parts
2019-04-30T22:46:22 < Cracki> ok, breaking in a debugger wouldn't have helped there either
2019-04-30T22:46:43 < Cracki> still, if I can't get enough info out of it to see what's going on, that's awful
2019-04-30T22:47:11 < kakimir> okay lets limit this question
2019-04-30T22:47:17 < kakimir> you have swd or jtag available
2019-04-30T22:47:34 < Cracki> oh *dusts off*
2019-04-30T22:47:48 < Cracki> do I have SWO too?
2019-04-30T22:48:22 < kakimir> inrelevant
2019-04-30T22:49:07 < karlp> huh, both iceland and australia move holidays a bit, but only to the next monday, not like weeks later or anything
2019-04-30T22:49:07 < qyx> then some siemens profinet arm926 thing
2019-04-30T22:49:32 < karlp> qyx: send me a PR for the travis thing, I'm not going to chase it now.
2019-04-30T22:49:59 < qyx> karlp: k
2019-04-30T22:50:26 < qyx> we don't move holidays :(
2019-04-30T22:50:47 < kakimir> qyx: was it fun?
2019-04-30T22:50:56 < qyx> for sure, then I left
2019-04-30T22:56:38 < qyx> so you say stm8 is great
2019-04-30T22:56:45 < qyx> https://lujji.github.io/blog/bare-metal-programming-stm8/
2019-04-30T22:56:48 < qyx> I shoudl give it a try
2019-04-30T23:03:44 < Steffanx> only when using keil ofcourse
2019-04-30T23:04:20 < qyx> but hey, they are not that cheap
2019-04-30T23:04:31 < Cracki> see, that's a good demonstration of teaching. before he defines _SFR_(), he shows what it'll do
2019-04-30T23:04:36 < Steffanx> they are. 80C pre programmed or something.
2019-04-30T23:04:59 < qyx> you can have a F0 nearly for that price
2019-04-30T23:05:05 < englishman> BARE METAL
2019-04-30T23:05:05 < Steffanx> preprogrammerered
2019-04-30T23:05:21 < Cracki> he's all about the simpler programming model
2019-04-30T23:05:29 < englishman> Stm8 is great but you don't have to go all hipster and give "writing to registers" a fancy buzzword
2019-04-30T23:08:52 < Thorn> 30 microcontrollers for $12.84 https://lcsc.com/product-detail/ST-Microelectronics_STMicroelectronics_STM8S103F3P6_STM8S103F3P6_C55961.html
2019-04-30T23:09:19 < Thorn> I paid more for 7660
2019-04-30T23:10:31 < Thorn> 30 microcontrollers for $6.73 https://lcsc.com/product-detail/ST-Microelectronics_STMicroelectronics_STM8S003F3P6TR_STM8S003F3P6TR_C52717.html
2019-04-30T23:11:25 < Cracki> hard to see how avr could compete
2019-04-30T23:12:31 < Thorn> and a lot of what you know about stm32 (unless you use HAL LOL) will be directly relevant in stm8 (timers, spi, i2c, uart)
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2019-04-30T23:13:45 < Cracki> apart from gcc not supporting it, going from stm32 to stm8 is just natural
2019-04-30T23:15:33 < Thorn> sdcc is pretty good
2019-04-30T23:15:53 < Thorn> I'm not sure about the status of the support in openocd though
2019-04-30T23:16:31 < Thorn> there's stm8flash for flashing using st-link but it can't debug
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2019-04-30T23:21:29 < Cracki> so just use iar and be happy
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2019-04-30T23:26:15 < Cracki> so... iar or sdcc, that makes life simple http://www.colecovision.eu/stm8/compilers.shtml
2019-04-30T23:28:02 < kakimir> so variable values generally readable or unreadable when target is running?
2019-04-30T23:29:37 < Cracki> wat
2019-04-30T23:30:50 < jpa-> kakimir: readable, unless they are in registers
2019-04-30T23:30:50 < kakimir> I'm so lazy
2019-04-30T23:31:07 < jpa-> (or in stack, if you don't know the exact address)
2019-04-30T23:31:19 < kakimir> does this have penalty to performace of the chip?
2019-04-30T23:31:22 < kakimir> if read
2019-04-30T23:32:02 < Thorn> at least ozone can regularly update variables while target is running
2019-04-30T23:32:02 < jpa-> it has AHB arbitration penalty, i.e. if CPU tries to read it on same cycle, one of them waits (in round-robin manner)
2019-04-30T23:32:13 < Cracki> at least bus access, but I don't see a need to stop the target for this
2019-04-30T23:32:18 < Thorn> not sure if you can make gdb do it
2019-04-30T23:32:29 < kakimir> how bout
2019-04-30T23:32:38 < jpa-> openocd can do it on telnet connection
2019-04-30T23:32:54 < kakimir> can there be zero-penalty read when cpu does load then update value to debugger?
2019-04-30T23:33:00 < Cracki> tracing can stream updates as they happen or regular polled values out to you
2019-04-30T23:33:15 < kakimir> oh that is tracing
2019-04-30T23:33:23 < Cracki> so if they optimized for that, it might be possible
2019-04-30T23:33:23 < kakimir> ? :o
2019-04-30T23:34:14 < Thorn> how much current can a QFN pad withstand? this charger IC has 2 pads for battery, 2 for system output, 1 for input (I_input = U_bat + I_system when charging)
2019-04-30T23:34:16 < Cracki> maybe benchmark variable update in tight loop... trace buffer might overflow :>
2019-04-30T23:34:38 < jpa-> https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/bletalk/blob/master/utils/logread.py  i do realtime reading here to fetch a log buffer over SWD
2019-04-30T23:35:13 < qyx> Thorn: doesn't it limit the total current (system+charging)? also, isn't Vin > Vbat? (so less current)
2019-04-30T23:35:25 < jpa-> kakimir: yeah, with ETM data tracing you could get the values the CPU reads, but that's not available on most cortex-m's
2019-04-30T23:35:47 < jpa-> kakimir: i wouldn't worry about the arbitration penalty, it's similar to what you would get due to e.g. DMA
2019-04-30T23:36:13 < Thorn> qyx: it does limit the current (max is 1.5A though), and this is a linear charger
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2019-04-30T23:37:09 < kakimir> maybe it's not bad to update values once a second
2019-04-30T23:38:03 < jpa-> you could probably max out the ~1Mbps SWD bandwidth and wouldn't notice the slowdown
2019-04-30T23:39:03 < jpa-> after all that would be only 1 read per 32*72 cpu cycles, and when only ~20% of cpu instructions access memory the slowdown is something like 0.01%
2019-04-30T23:39:39 < kakimir> have everyone here made their own loggers that use gdb to get data from target?
2019-04-30T23:39:54 < jpa-> of course, it's a rite of passage
2019-04-30T23:39:54 < Cracki> certainly not
2019-04-30T23:40:03 < Steffanx> i use segger ozone + jlink :)
2019-04-30T23:40:06 < kakimir> and have graphs and gauges and tables and
2019-04-30T23:40:12 < kakimir> flags
2019-04-30T23:40:21 < kakimir> switches and knobs
2019-04-30T23:41:10 < Steffanx> sounds like labview. dont go that road.
2019-04-30T23:41:21 < kakimir> I'm talking about seeing and controlling variables on-run
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2019-04-30T23:41:45 < kakimir> if you have controller of sorts
2019-04-30T23:41:46 < jpa-> why'd you want a knob for that?
2019-04-30T23:41:54 < jpa-> instead of just typing the value
2019-04-30T23:41:58 < kakimir> now that I think that
2019-04-30T23:42:03 < Cracki> ah you want http://www.farrellf.com/TelemetryViewer/
2019-04-30T23:42:16 < kakimir> some things would be really nice to just knob
2019-04-30T23:42:25 < Cracki> I think I'll have to do something similar soon because I need knobs and stuff too
2019-04-30T23:42:38 < englishman> gdb.vi
2019-04-30T23:42:46 < Steffanx> lol
2019-04-30T23:43:29 < Cracki> and no, gdb won't be involved. that'll be user facing, so USB, likely serial port protocol
2019-04-30T23:43:29 < kakimir> upgrademan should fix that dot comma locale bug in telemetryviewer
2019-04-30T23:44:04 < Steffanx> use a proper locale.
2019-04-30T23:44:14 < Thorn> is upgrdman ok
2019-04-30T23:44:31 < Thorn> he hasn't been here in a while
2019-04-30T23:44:39 < kakimir> busy
2019-04-30T23:44:59 < Steffanx> he was here yesterday
2019-04-30T23:45:00 < kakimir> Steffanx: locale breaking software is so winxp era
2019-04-30T23:52:58 < Steffanx> nah
--- Log closed Wed May 01 00:00:33 2019