--- Log opened Wed May 01 00:00:33 2019
2019-05-01T00:00:33 < kakimir> yes yes
2019-05-01T00:01:24 < Steffanx> ei ei
2019-05-01T00:01:43 < kakimir> kyllä kyllä
2019-05-01T00:01:51 < kakimir> kylkyl
2019-05-01T00:02:02 < kakimir> e ei
2019-05-01T00:02:14 < kakimir> jees jees
2019-05-01T00:03:02 < kakimir> man I think I want to connect like a usb connected mixer board via gdb to my target
2019-05-01T00:03:34 < kakimir> play with the knobs.. get the perfect vibe out of it
2019-05-01T00:04:41 < kakimir> feel that controller thru my inputs thru physical knobs
2019-05-01T00:05:28 < kakimir> how funky is that
2019-05-01T00:05:40 < kakimir> and it's also possible
2019-05-01T00:07:38 < mawk> why via gdb
2019-05-01T00:07:46 < kakimir> what options I have?
2019-05-01T00:07:57 < kakimir> it seems like the easiest
2019-05-01T00:08:00 < mawk> you want to connect a mixer board to your target, that's it ?
2019-05-01T00:08:07 < mawk> gdb wouldn't be the first option that comes to mind
2019-05-01T00:08:12 < mawk> you have serial, usb, spi, whatever
2019-05-01T00:08:13 < kakimir> for development purposes
2019-05-01T00:08:22 < mawk> ah
2019-05-01T00:08:41 < kakimir> to say you have a controller with 20 parameters
2019-05-01T00:08:55 < mawk> SPI would be suited to this maybe
2019-05-01T00:09:03 < mawk> 4-wire spi with an interrupt line
2019-05-01T00:09:05 < kakimir> why
2019-05-01T00:09:12 < mawk> by elimination
2019-05-01T00:09:17 < mawk> i2c is slow, serial isn't quite made for this
2019-05-01T00:09:24 < kakimir> SWD goes like mad
2019-05-01T00:09:38 < kakimir> and it probes any of those global variables
2019-05-01T00:09:47 < mawk> yeah but it's strange
2019-05-01T00:09:57 < kakimir> testpads are there
2019-05-01T00:10:02 < kakimir> tools - yes
2019-05-01T00:10:04 < mawk> it's like driving your car through some debug port by making naked wires touch like in hollywood movie
2019-05-01T00:10:10 < mawk> it's fun but it's not the first way that comes to mind
2019-05-01T00:10:33 < kakimir> for SPI I need to build 2 interfaces
2019-05-01T00:11:40 < mawk> yeah well master and slave
2019-05-01T00:14:18 < kakimir> full renegade mode: use controller outputs as inputs for synth
2019-05-01T00:15:09 < Steffanx> usb it is
2019-05-01T00:15:23 < kakimir> yeah
2019-05-01T00:15:51 < kakimir> if my target has usb it's because I had no choise
2019-05-01T00:17:59 < mawk> why ?
2019-05-01T00:18:01 < mawk> usb is cool
2019-05-01T00:20:49 < kakimir> rs232 is cool
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2019-05-01T00:23:39 < Steffanx> lolyou
2019-05-01T00:23:44 < qyx> lol englishman gdb.vi
2019-05-01T00:23:58 < Steffanx> i wouldnt be surprised if it even exists
2019-05-01T00:24:18 < kakimir> I didn't get the joke
2019-05-01T00:24:45 < Steffanx> .vi is labview crap
2019-05-01T00:24:56 < qyx> get labview then kakimir 
2019-05-01T00:25:09 < kakimir> sounds $$
2019-05-01T00:25:16 < Steffanx> warez
2019-05-01T00:26:05 < kakimir> don know how to use it
2019-05-01T00:26:17 < Steffanx> you dont want to anyway
2019-05-01T00:26:25 < qyx> with mouse
2019-05-01T00:26:39 < kakimir> Steffanx: true
2019-05-01T00:26:57 < qyx> not a single statement shall be written
2019-05-01T00:28:00 < Steffanx> the code block is good
2019-05-01T00:28:39 < kakimir> I think I will throw arduino in a box and connect 20 cheap potentiometers to it and knobs
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2019-05-01T00:29:02 < kakimir> label them
2019-05-01T00:29:17 < kakimir> write code to CSV print the ADC values
2019-05-01T00:29:58 < Steffanx> Yes. Tarduino it
2019-05-01T00:30:09 < kakimir> finally some use for that
2019-05-01T00:30:14 < qyx> daq made easy
2019-05-01T00:30:22 < kakimir> it also has like a loads of ADC channels I bet
2019-05-01T00:30:26 < Steffanx> Get 20 potmeter shields
2019-05-01T00:30:35 < kakimir> no shields
2019-05-01T00:31:04 < qyx> get some NI cdaq to comnect potentiometers to
2019-05-01T00:31:12 < kakimir> just shove some jumper wires to it
2019-05-01T00:31:12 < qyx> related
2019-05-01T00:32:14 < qyx> ok, stop that ni shit
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2019-05-01T00:37:07 < kakimir> sweet.. 6 analog inputs
2019-05-01T00:39:47 < kakimir> better get crafty with attiny1617
2019-05-01T00:40:01 < kakimir> 19 adc inputs
2019-05-01T00:40:31 < Cracki> so what's the plan, lots of adcs, then some bus, into your target?
2019-05-01T00:41:24 < kakimir> potentiometer box connects to computer
2019-05-01T00:41:56 < kakimir> it spits CSV via serial
2019-05-01T00:42:29 < kakimir> then values are scaled in predefined ranges
2019-05-01T00:42:46 < kakimir> and somehow to gdb that should update those variables
2019-05-01T00:43:05 < kakimir> and read output variables
2019-05-01T00:43:31 < kakimir> not yet sure how to present those output variables
2019-05-01T00:43:54 < Cracki> nodejews
2019-05-01T00:44:05 < kakimir> jeez
2019-05-01T00:44:14 < Cracki> ncurses text ui
2019-05-01T00:44:29 < Cracki> got an eink display somewhere?
2019-05-01T00:44:31 < mawk> pots are lame for precision
2019-05-01T00:44:38 < Cracki> "precision"
2019-05-01T00:44:39 < mawk> you have rotary thingies for precision
2019-05-01T00:44:44 < mawk> you do exact steppings
2019-05-01T00:44:50 < mawk> instead of a fluctuating analog valuer
2019-05-01T00:44:51 < mawk> -r
2019-05-01T00:44:59 < kakimir> mawk: that is why I scale them for predefined range
2019-05-01T00:45:05 < kakimir> for subtle changes
2019-05-01T00:46:31 < kakimir> potentiometer box should CSV every channel filtered value just with value 0-1023 and then it becomes something like 0-30 after scaling
2019-05-01T00:47:31 < kakimir> or 2500 - 2550, or -15 - 15
2019-05-01T00:48:47 < kakimir> when it's getting there the range can be tightened around value that seems to provide best output result
2019-05-01T00:49:20 < Steffanx> What is this for mr kakimir ?
2019-05-01T00:49:41 < kakimir> it's for being kaaks
2019-05-01T00:50:04 < Steffanx> I knew that, but what is kakimir going to do with it?
2019-05-01T00:50:06 < Steffanx> Steffanx: 
2019-05-01T00:50:23 < kakimir> but I just want to know if it would be a good interface to use
2019-05-01T00:50:44 < kakimir> do I get better tune to the controller faster
2019-05-01T00:52:03 < Steffanx> For music or what?
2019-05-01T00:52:08 < kakimir> no
2019-05-01T00:52:51 < Steffanx> So just a box with know you can rotate. Cool :P
2019-05-01T00:53:07 < Steffanx> Know = knobs. Lol
2019-05-01T00:53:22 < kakimir> did you understand that it updates variables to target via gdb
2019-05-01T00:53:33 < kakimir> to say to controller running on target
2019-05-01T00:54:39 < Steffanx> Yes. But why you want potmeter for that
2019-05-01T00:54:47 < Steffanx> Potmeters.
2019-05-01T00:55:02 < Steffanx> "Because i can" whokay
2019-05-01T00:56:03 < kakimir> direct realtime tuning
2019-05-01T00:56:26 < kakimir> computer being just a monitor
2019-05-01T00:56:33 < Steffanx> Tuning what?
2019-05-01T00:56:37 < kakimir> controller
2019-05-01T00:57:20 < Steffanx> Ok ty for clarifying
2019-05-01T00:58:23 < kakimir> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_theory
2019-05-01T00:59:31 < kakimir> I just.. I would just lose my mind to like type some new parameter values in with laptop
2019-05-01T00:59:57 < kakimir> that's bullshit.. real knobs man
2019-05-01T01:02:09 < Cracki> :)
2019-05-01T01:02:35 < kakimir> turn the knob - realtime gradual change to the parameter
2019-05-01T01:02:39 < Cracki> i wish upgrdman's thingy had control elements to send something back
2019-05-01T01:03:05 < Cracki> what is your controller controlling?
2019-05-01T01:04:13 < kakimir> sikrit
2019-05-01T01:04:34 < Steffanx> Shouldve started with that mr kakimir 
2019-05-01T01:04:36 < Cracki> https://eli.thegreenplace.net/2009/08/07/a-live-data-monitor-with-python-pyqt-and-pyserial
2019-05-01T01:04:41 < Cracki> here, have a google result
2019-05-01T01:06:24 < Cracki> gotta love mixed w95/w3.11 aesthetics http://www.ontrak.net/labview.htm
2019-05-01T01:07:29 < Steffanx> Cant you hack something together with a 35 dollar usb midi controller from the aliexpress kakimir?
2019-05-01T01:07:37 < kakimir> show me
2019-05-01T01:07:42 < Steffanx> If you want to turn knobs
2019-05-01T01:07:53 < kakimir> I bet CSV is the easiest way
2019-05-01T01:08:03 < kakimir> really easy to produce and read
2019-05-01T01:08:21 < Cracki> yeh do it somehow, nice comes after
2019-05-01T01:08:42 < Steffanx> https://m.nl.aliexpress.com/item/32830522689.html?pid=808_0009_0131&spm=a2g0n.search-amp.list.32830522689&aff_trace_key=&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=91571KgJ7ESB7tlK69cot5uO6kBOGQbbN8-FeZ6xcTFz7Xk1DTr-HyBFV3o5sOEfJ-eK1556661997435
2019-05-01T01:08:50 < Steffanx> Yes mobile much
2019-05-01T01:09:40 < kakimir> koop het nu
2019-05-01T01:09:55 < Steffanx> I think zyp did something like this once.
2019-05-01T01:10:03 < zyp> what did I do?
2019-05-01T01:10:21 < kakimir> mixer for your debugging sessions
2019-05-01T01:10:32 < Steffanx> Some midi device to control something
2019-05-01T01:10:38 < Steffanx> But i dont remember what it was
2019-05-01T01:10:49 < zyp> oh, yeah, tuning params for quadrotor shit
2019-05-01T01:10:55 < Steffanx> Hah kakimir
2019-05-01T01:11:04 < Cracki> do tell
2019-05-01T01:12:29 < zyp> got an old korg nanokontrol
2019-05-01T01:13:17 < kakimir> difference is that my mixer is being made in china now and potentiometer box can be done in half a day
2019-05-01T01:13:38 < Cracki> true
2019-05-01T01:13:56 < kakimir> zyp: did you blog about it?
2019-05-01T01:13:57 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/NmsYK <- here's the script I hacked up back when
2019-05-01T01:14:09 < zyp> it's probably somewhere in the channel logs
2019-05-01T01:14:23 < Steffanx> 0.5 day starts now, kakimir 
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2019-05-01T01:15:30 < Cracki> what did pypm do? it's nto a package manager, I'm sure
2019-05-01T01:15:32 < kakimir> imma start cooling down of 0.5days now before I get sleep stef
2019-05-01T01:15:43 < zyp> Cracki, python bindings for portmidi, I believe
2019-05-01T01:15:48 < Cracki> ic
2019-05-01T01:16:52 < zyp> there's quite a few years since I wrote this, so there might be a more suitable midi lib nowadays, idk
2019-05-01T01:23:33 < kakimir> Steffanx: half a day in units of workdays not days
2019-05-01T01:25:05 < kakimir> I think I should stop using uart as diagnostic interface alltogether
2019-05-01T01:25:39 < kakimir> just create viewers that use debugger
2019-05-01T01:25:57 < kakimir> I just haven't got to it
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2019-05-01T03:52:38 < catphish> one usb floppy thing :) https://imgur.com/a/U8PSdOv
2019-05-01T03:59:47 < Cracki> 5v gnd gnd !!!NC!!!?
2019-05-01T03:59:58 < Cracki> that's the thinking
2019-05-01T04:00:00 < Cracki> *what
2019-05-01T04:00:19 < Cracki> is that floppy power header?
2019-05-01T04:00:53 < mawk> there is NC on every stlink v2.1 also
2019-05-01T04:00:57 < mawk> but I secretely know it's SWO
2019-05-01T04:01:19 < mawk> which core did you choose catphish ?
2019-05-01T04:01:37 < catphish> Cracki: yes, floppy power header
2019-05-01T04:01:49 < catphish> Cracki: seems modern drives don't need 12v :)
2019-05-01T04:02:03 < catphish> it just borrows some amps from the USB plug
2019-05-01T04:02:24 < catphish> mawk: i didn't bother with the SWO pin :)
2019-05-01T04:02:47 < catphish> mawk: the chip is a STM32L433CB
2019-05-01T04:03:19 < mawk> ah good
2019-05-01T04:03:24 < mawk> where will you make the pcb ?
2019-05-01T04:03:29 < catphish> allpcb
2019-05-01T04:03:48 < catphish> i always use them, they bring me much speedy joy
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2019-05-01T04:04:57 < catphish> this board cheaps out a lot, no protection of any kind apart from 5v tolerant GPIO
2019-05-01T04:05:21 < mawk> don't you need at least LSE oscillator ?
2019-05-01T04:05:27 < mawk> if you're planning on xtal-less USB
2019-05-01T04:05:40 < mawk> you need LSE oscillator to calibrate the MSI oscillator that provides 48MHz clock for USB
2019-05-01T04:05:58 < catphish> i didn't know that :(
2019-05-01T04:06:00 < catphish> i'd better check
2019-05-01T04:06:34 < mawk> at least it's a better situation than with other cores where you need a 8MHz crystal
2019-05-01T04:06:42 < mawk> here you just need a little 32.768 kHz oscillator
2019-05-01T04:06:52 < mawk> but you can also do USB without any of that and just pray it works
2019-05-01T04:06:58 < mawk> I guess for low speed transfer it's fine
2019-05-01T04:07:13 < catphish> i don't see LSE in my clock tree
2019-05-01T04:07:28 < catphish> it's using LSI and HSI
2019-05-01T04:07:37 < mawk> ah
2019-05-01T04:07:42 < mawk> you're not using MSI then
2019-05-01T04:07:52 < mawk> the thing called HSI48 is providing to USB ?
2019-05-01T04:08:02 < mawk> I guess for low speeds it's fine to use this
2019-05-01T04:08:09 < catphish> https://i.imgur.com/BYbPLW5.png
2019-05-01T04:08:38 < mawk> well here you're using MSI for both USB and core yes
2019-05-01T04:08:47 < catphish> i really don't understand this well
2019-05-01T04:08:48 < mawk> in that configuration you'd need LSE to calibrate MSI to be accurate enough
2019-05-01T04:08:53 < mawk> you "need", it could work without
2019-05-01T04:09:04 < mawk> but it's just that you'll get a perfectly fine 48MHz clock if you calibrate it that way
2019-05-01T04:09:11 < mawk> let me find back the manual pages
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2019-05-01T04:09:34 < catphish> also, what is HSI48
2019-05-01T04:09:38 < mawk> so in the absence of LSE I believe you should use HSI48
2019-05-01T04:09:39 < bitmask> o/
2019-05-01T04:09:51 < mawk> it's an internal 48MHz RC oscillator specially made for usb clock apparently
2019-05-01T04:09:58 < catphish> well thats even better
2019-05-01T04:10:09 < mawk> it's less accurate than MSI with LSE calibration
2019-05-01T04:10:12 < catphish> i'll do that
2019-05-01T04:10:33 < mawk> it all comes down to what you transfer with usb
2019-05-01T04:10:35 < bitmask> If I want to control about 100 rgb leds, tlc5947 my best bet? I need speeeeed
2019-05-01T04:12:09 < mawk> ah yeah ok catphish so HSI48 can also be used with LSE calibration, so you can totally use it
2019-05-01T04:12:16 < catphish> mawk: i intend to transfer about 500kBps of payload over full speed 2.0
2019-05-01T04:12:17 < mawk> and in the absence of LSE it will try it best to calibrate with usb sof signals
2019-05-01T04:12:26 < mawk> so stealing clock precision from the host
2019-05-01T04:12:52 < catphish> datasheet says "Internal 48 MHz with clock recovery"
2019-05-01T04:12:55 < mawk> yes
2019-05-01T04:12:59 < catphish> so if it can sync to the host, great
2019-05-01T04:13:03 < mawk> clock recovery will use either LSE or usb sof signal to calibrate
2019-05-01T04:13:12 < mawk> so in the clock config use HSI48 for USB, and be sure to enable clock recovery properly
2019-05-01T04:13:21 < catphish> makes sense
2019-05-01T04:14:03 < catphish> is LSE *just* a crystal? i could add one if it's a worthwhile improvement
2019-05-01T04:14:17 < catphish> but it looks like it should work without it
2019-05-01T04:14:30 < mawk> yes
2019-05-01T04:14:36 < mawk> either crystal or ceramic resonnator
2019-05-01T04:15:24 < mawk> it maybe needs a cap or two
2019-05-01T04:15:43 < catphish> http://nutty.tk/floppy1.pdf
2019-05-01T04:15:55 < catphish> this is all i have, it's an utterly trivial setup
2019-05-01T04:16:52 < mawk> since MSI won't be calibrated since you don't have LSE it's maybe not wise to run at 80MHz, but the manual isn't extra clear on the subject
2019-05-01T04:16:56 < mawk> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/reference_manual/group0/b0/ac/3e/8f/6d/21/47/af/DM00151940/files/DM00151940.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00151940.pdf
2019-05-01T04:17:05 < mawk> page 183 in your pdf viewer
2019-05-01T04:17:20 < mawk> also page 183 according to st paging, first time I see it match
2019-05-01T04:18:17 < mawk> if you don't feed the PLL with MSI you can still crank it up to 48MHz and run the core at that speed
2019-05-01T04:18:27 < mawk> but it's just details I'm sure it won't matter for a simple application
2019-05-01T04:18:32 < catphish> seems like i just need to configure CRS for USB operation
2019-05-01T04:18:32 < mawk> and it's all fixable with software update anyway
2019-05-01T04:18:35 < mawk> yes
2019-05-01T04:18:40 < mawk> configure CRS to use usb sof to sync
2019-05-01T04:19:04 < mawk> then in the clock view from your screenshot select HSI48 for usb clock
2019-05-01T04:20:07 < mawk> yeah apparently you just can't use the MSI in PLL mode if you don't have LSE, so you're stuck at 48MHz for the core frequency
2019-05-01T04:20:22 < mawk> you probably can use it anyway and the system will boot, but ST won't support this
2019-05-01T04:20:55 < catphish> but my cubemx shows all this working
2019-05-01T04:22:31 < catphish> MSI4->PLL and HSI48->USB
2019-05-01T04:24:10 < catphish> i do want the 80MHz clock if i can achieve it, but 48 would be fine
2019-05-01T04:24:24 < catphish> seems like i need to read more and experiment anyway
2019-05-01T04:24:40 < catphish> right now i'm just trusting this cubemx tree
2019-05-01T04:27:03 < mawk> yeah cubemx doesn't complain in my case too
2019-05-01T04:27:10 < mawk> but it wouldn't be the first bug I see in it
2019-05-01T04:27:21 < mawk> I have a board right with me here I can try if you want
2019-05-01T04:27:27 < mawk> let me disable LSE
2019-05-01T04:27:31 < mawk> and keep MSI in the PLL
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2019-05-01T04:28:26 < catphish> thanks!
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2019-05-01T04:30:45 < mawk> looks like it works
2019-05-01T04:30:51 < mawk> but I wouldn't trust it for precise timing
2019-05-01T04:31:08 < mawk> I should time it with a scope
2019-05-01T04:31:24 < jadew> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Outdoor-1-pcs-Disposable-Urinal-Toilet-Bag-Camping-Male-Female-Kids-Adults-Portable-Emergency-Pee-Bag/32915526019.html
2019-05-01T04:31:28 < mawk> output a square wave with a TIM peripheral
2019-05-01T04:31:46 < mawk> anyway for USB you're fine, it's for other kind of timing that it would probably drift
2019-05-01T04:31:59 < catphish> i'll build it and see what happens
2019-05-01T04:32:13 < catphish> i wrote my own PLL for my other timing anyway
2019-05-01T04:32:26 < mawk> you can do "soft" PLLs with TIM peripherals
2019-05-01T04:32:34 < mawk> use one TIM as a prescaler to another, etc
2019-05-01T04:33:19 < catphish> i so a very soft pll, my just setting TIMn->CNT on a rising edge in my main loop, it works
2019-05-01T04:33:36 < catphish> though i'm still considering whether my implementation is the best way
2019-05-01T04:34:02 < mawk> you mean you clock in manually TIM ?
2019-05-01T04:34:10 < mawk> you can do that with a gpio too
2019-05-01T04:34:39 < catphish> i have a pin that sets the timer to a specific value when it falls
2019-05-01T04:34:52 < catphish> if i could do that in hardware i would
2019-05-01T04:34:57 < mawk> yeah you can
2019-05-01T04:35:09 < mawk> pick a not too low level timer and you can select what "action" a "trigger" does
2019-05-01T04:35:19 < mawk> "trigger" could be another TIM, or a GPIO in your case
2019-05-01T04:35:33 < mawk> and "action" could be reset the counter, or reset and start the counter, or just start the counter if stopped
2019-05-01T04:35:36 < catphish> afaik none of those actions are to load a value
2019-05-01T04:35:37 < mawk> it's pretty powerful
2019-05-01T04:35:45 < mawk> if the value is predefined yes
2019-05-01T04:35:48 < mawk> you put it in autoreload register
2019-05-01T04:35:53 < mawk> it's what cubemx calls the period I think
2019-05-01T04:36:28 < catphish> actually i might be able to make that work
2019-05-01T04:37:26 < catphish> i have a timer, it runs at 80MHz, it has a reload value of 160, so it resets at 500kHz
2019-05-01T04:37:37 < mawk> hmm
2019-05-01T04:37:41 < mawk> so you have a prescaler of 0
2019-05-01T04:37:47 < catphish> yes
2019-05-01T04:37:54 < catphish> that part works fine
2019-05-01T04:37:58 < mawk> so you chose a 32 bit timer
2019-05-01T04:38:18 < catphish> it doesn't matter, 160 is much less than 16 bits :)
2019-05-01T04:38:56 < mawk> yeah sorry
2019-05-01T04:39:28 < catphish> what i want to happen... is when an edge occurs, i want to set the timer's counter to 80... so that it next triggers half way through the bit that just started
2019-05-01T04:40:03 < mawk> you can constantly set at 80 and keep a state machine also
2019-05-01T04:40:31 < mawk> (you should put 159 for reload if you want 500kHz I believe)
2019-05-01T04:40:44 < catphish> you're right, it is 159 :)
2019-05-01T04:41:11 < mawk> for that next trigger thing I believe you can do it with two timers, one cascading to the other
2019-05-01T04:41:14 < mawk> but it sounds tricky
2019-05-01T04:42:46 < catphish> i'll think it over anyway
2019-05-01T04:42:56 < catphish> this is my code that does it in software: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/xnSsb6TkdF/
2019-05-01T04:43:01 < catphish> it's hideous but it does work
2019-05-01T04:43:19 < mawk> let me time your LSE-less PLL construction
2019-05-01T04:43:27 < mawk> my scope is an old analog scope, I don't think it would work
2019-05-01T04:43:32 < mawk> with another board maybe
2019-05-01T04:43:53 < mawk> I need to compute drift and jitter
2019-05-01T04:43:56 < catphish> there are also other options entirely, i might just oversample and send the raw samples to the host over usb
2019-05-01T04:43:59 < mawk> to see if using MSI with the PLL is stable
2019-05-01T04:44:07 < mawk> yeah oversampling is a good thing anyway
2019-05-01T04:44:20 < mawk> just for UART the default thing is 16 samples per bit
2019-05-01T04:44:36 < catphish> i'm torn really between several different implementations
2019-05-01T04:45:05 < mawk> I guess low power is better
2019-05-01T04:45:05 < catphish> the simplest is just to time the distance between falling edges with a timer, and send the raw times back to the host over USB
2019-05-01T04:45:17 < mawk> since anyway you chose a low power core with tons of cool low power peripherals
2019-05-01T04:45:19 < catphish> the problem is purely one of bandwidth
2019-05-01T04:45:35 < mawk> I'd use that to learn how to make it lowest consumption possible
2019-05-01T04:45:38 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-01T04:45:42 < mawk> it's 12Mbps something like this ?
2019-05-01T04:45:45 < mawk> for USB FS
2019-05-01T04:45:48 < mawk> or 11.2 maybe
2019-05-01T04:46:09 < catphish> for this approach i need 32 bits of data to be recorded for every bit i receive from the floppy drive
2019-05-01T04:46:39 < mawk> it sounds feasible in 12Mbps
2019-05-01T04:46:55 < catphish> bits from the floppy drive arrive at 500kbps
2019-05-01T04:47:35 < catphish> so that's 2MB/s of 32 bit timing data, just slightly too much for USB FS
2019-05-01T04:48:23 < catphish> even with a 16 bit timer, which would be enough, it would be pushing it at 1MB/s
2019-05-01T04:49:39 < catphish> so i essentally gave up on that idea, and decided to process the data in the stm32 on the fly, and just offer the PC a mass storage device :)
2019-05-01T04:49:51 < mawk> yeah it's smoother
2019-05-01T04:49:54 < catphish> which is a much cooler implementation anyway, even though it's less flexible
2019-05-01T04:50:48 < catphish> so the new plan is to use a timer to record the time between edges, then process the results in realtime in the stm32, store 1 disk-track of bits in SRAM, then transfer those to the PC
2019-05-01T04:51:14 < catphish> i'm pretty sure this will produce the best results in the end
2019-05-01T04:51:36 < mawk> yes
2019-05-01T04:51:42 < mawk> you can ask the timer to debounce
2019-05-01T04:51:45 < mawk> it's cool
2019-05-01T04:51:52 < catphish> yeah i've use that before
2019-05-01T04:52:15 < catphish> so yeah, i just need time between each (debounced) falling edge
2019-05-01T04:52:24 < catphish> and the timer peripheral can do all that
2019-05-01T04:54:00 < catphish> it will set a flag (and/or interrupt) each time a new value is available, by looking at that value, i can easily calculate the data, as long as the format of the disk is standard/valid
2019-05-01T04:54:54 < catphish> i'll present to the host as a mass storage device with a block size of 1 disk-track
2019-05-01T04:55:08 < catphish> and hopefully everything will be great
2019-05-01T05:06:56 < Cracki> catphish, maybe go a little easy on those bits. I doubt you'll need, or even HAVE, 32 bits of timing data per bit
2019-05-01T05:07:22 < Cracki> one timestamp and then time increments, I'm sure you can go with 8 or 16 bits
2019-05-01T05:07:44 < catphish> Cracki: yeah i realised that, it needs around 10 usually, so i'd go with 16
2019-05-01T05:08:13 < Cracki> curious, that level of readout
2019-05-01T05:08:28 < karlp> Thorn:jpa: if you wnat to watch variables while running in gdb, with oocd, you do, "monitor resume" and then "p var" whenever you like...
2019-05-01T05:08:38 < mawk> yeah at most you can't do 32 bits anyway if you have 160 values catphish 
2019-05-01T05:08:43 < scrts> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5Y62TNVUAULMVP?format=jpg&name=900x900
2019-05-01T05:08:47 < mawk> counter between 0 and 159
2019-05-01T05:09:00 < mawk> it's 7.321928094887363 bits
2019-05-01T05:09:07 < Cracki> debouncing... have you seen any bounces at all?
2019-05-01T05:09:18 < Cracki> I would think it's already lowpassed physically
2019-05-01T05:09:35 < mawk> the timer does it itself, it just averages out
2019-05-01T05:09:57 < Cracki> nice dead bug
2019-05-01T05:10:55 < catphish> 80Mhz/160 is the time between bits on a correctly formatted disk, using  pll and regular sampling, one can sample it at intervals of 160 cycles
2019-05-01T05:10:59 < jadew> scrts, got some back story on that?
2019-05-01T05:11:25 < catphish> but them timing the distance between falling edges instead, there might be no edges for several bits in a row
2019-05-01T05:11:48 < Cracki> is any modulation specified?
2019-05-01T05:12:00 < Cracki> modulation that you would see?
2019-05-01T05:12:04 < catphish> so 10001 would be 4 x 160-periods between edges
2019-05-01T05:12:08 < Cracki> I know there's modulation, which the drive likely swallows
2019-05-01T05:12:27 < Cracki> isn't there a clock signal as well?
2019-05-01T05:12:31 < catphish> so if i see a value from my timer of 640, i know this represents 10001
2019-05-01T05:12:47 < mawk> from your homemade timer you mean catphish ?
2019-05-01T05:12:49 < mawk> not from TIM
2019-05-01T05:13:01 < catphish> from a TIM i mean
2019-05-01T05:13:07 < catphish> the modulation is MFM
2019-05-01T05:13:16 < Cracki> hm, I see no clock signal on the floppy bus
2019-05-01T05:13:24 < Cracki> how the hell do they expect that to be sampled reliably
2019-05-01T05:13:26 < catphish> theres no clock
2019-05-01T05:13:28 < Cracki> bit stuffing?
2019-05-01T05:13:30 < catphish> MFM is self clocking
2019-05-01T05:13:32 < mawk> CNT is stuck between 0 and 159 if you have a period of 160
2019-05-01T05:13:32 < karlp> catphish: use swo! it's good! it's jstu one more pin!
2019-05-01T05:13:45 < Cracki> do you see mfm on the bus, or is that decoded by the drive?
2019-05-01T05:14:11 < catphish> MFM on the bus
2019-05-01T05:14:49 < Cracki> ah good
2019-05-01T05:14:54 < Cracki> I'm reading up on it rn
2019-05-01T05:15:37 < karlp> mawk: what are you on about with needing lse?
2019-05-01T05:15:44 < catphish> there are 2 ways of looking at MFM
2019-05-01T05:15:49 < karlp> the st parts that have hsi48 have the crs, you just use it.
2019-05-01T05:15:58 < catphish> 1) a bit stream of 2x the rate of the decoded data
2019-05-01T05:16:00 < karlp> you only need lse if you want accurate rtc shitz
2019-05-01T05:16:12 < karlp> if you want usb, and you've got ap art with hsi48+crs, you're golden.
2019-05-01T05:16:12 < mawk> karlp: yes for HSI48, but for MSI you need LSE if you want to have it calibrated
2019-05-01T05:16:19 < catphish> 2) a series of rising edges with a meaningful time between them
2019-05-01T05:16:47 < catphish> i like this diagram: http://www.pdp11gy.com/mfm/MFM-timing.jpg
2019-05-01T05:16:54 < mawk> and thus be able to use it in the PLL to make your 80MHz for the core; otherwise the max is at 48MHz
2019-05-01T05:17:06 < mawk> but you can still use it in the PLL even without LSE, it just won't be calibrated
2019-05-01T05:17:09 < Cracki> I'm getting optical illusions from that picture
2019-05-01T05:17:30 < Cracki> oh no they're actually jpeg artefacts
2019-05-01T05:17:41 < catphish> my final version will 90% likely use the timing method, to measure the time between rising edges, and work out the preceding MFM encoded bits accordingly
2019-05-01T05:18:15 < catphish> then from that it's easy enough to decode to the original data bits
2019-05-01T05:18:17 < Cracki> note that these pulses can sometimes be level changes
2019-05-01T05:18:43 < karlp> mawk: 'm taking offense ot you earlier claims about "not doing usb without lse"
2019-05-01T05:18:53 < karlp> by all means, msi by itsxelf isn't well calibrated.
2019-05-01T05:18:56 < mawk> yes karlp that was before I saw CRS
2019-05-01T05:19:03 < karlp> Id on't think anyone has ever made that claim.
2019-05-01T05:19:11 < mawk> no by itself it's not well calibrated
2019-05-01T05:19:17 < mawk> but you can make it precise if you have LSE
2019-05-01T05:19:30 < karlp> yes, but that's talking about apples, while usb is the orange.
2019-05-01T05:19:47 < mawk> it's a related issue
2019-05-01T05:19:51 < karlp> no. it's not.
2019-05-01T05:19:53 < mawk> he needs usb, and he wants 80 MHz too
2019-05-01T05:20:00 < mawk> usb is settled with HSI48
2019-05-01T05:20:09 < mawk> not the other issue
2019-05-01T05:20:35 < karlp> also, for usb, on parts that don't offer "crystalless usb" you don't need an 8Mhz  crustal.
2019-05-01T05:20:44 < karlp> you need _any_ hse that meets that parts guidelines,
2019-05-01T05:20:46 < catphish> wow allpcb is basically free right now for small prototypes, just $19 for the dhl shipping
2019-05-01T05:20:48 < mawk> yeah 8 or anything
2019-05-01T05:20:49 < mawk> you understood
2019-05-01T05:20:56 < karlp> pretty much anything from 1-24 or so. sometimes 2-25.
2019-05-01T05:21:06 < karlp> I did, but you can and should be more precise :)
2019-05-01T05:21:25 < karlp> or, less precise, if you're making overly restrictive claims :)
2019-05-01T05:21:41 < mawk> so since you're here you can clarify what ST says about using MSI in the PLL ?
2019-05-01T05:21:56 < karlp> what does it say that you need to clarify?
2019-05-01T05:22:07 < mawk> it says that without LSE you can't use it in the PLL
2019-05-01T05:22:08 < karlp> and are you still talking about l432?
2019-05-01T05:22:11 < mawk> but it's a bit vague
2019-05-01T05:22:15 < karlp> where does it say that?
2019-05-01T05:22:21 < mawk> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/reference_manual/group0/b0/ac/3e/8f/6d/21/47/af/DM00151940/files/DM00151940.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00151940.pdf
2019-05-01T05:22:26 < mawk> page 183
2019-05-01T05:22:58 < karlp> which rm number is that?
2019-05-01T05:23:12 < mawk> any L4 RM would do I guess, RM0394
2019-05-01T05:23:19 < Cracki> now I know why these signal patterns looked familiar! wikipedia says MFM is miller, and I've dealt with miller before
2019-05-01T05:24:23 < karlp> mawk: I think they're just saying, that if you use lse, it's "very accurate"
2019-05-01T05:24:32 < mawk> they say it twice, «when used in PLL-mode with the LSE, it provides a very accurate clock source which can be used by the USB FS device, and feed the main PLL to run the system at the maximum speed 80 MHz» and «When a 32.768 kHz external oscillator is present in the application, it is possible to configure the MSI in a PLL-mode»
2019-05-01T05:24:49 < karlp> you can see from the clock tree that you can use msi with pll no matter what.
2019-05-01T05:24:53 < mawk> yeah, that's what I find vague
2019-05-01T05:24:55 < karlp> and the regsiters don't get upset about it.
2019-05-01T05:24:59 < mawk> yeah I tried
2019-05-01T05:25:01 < karlp> nah, not really,
2019-05-01T05:25:17 < karlp> what would msi possible be used for if you _had_ to use lse with it?
2019-05-01T05:25:29 < mawk> well when they say that if you have LSE it is then possible to run at 80MHz I wonder what would happen if I run at 80MHz without LSE
2019-05-01T05:26:42 < karlp> you run at 80Mhz +- the accuracy fo msi?
2019-05-01T05:26:46 < karlp> jsut like when you use hsi?
2019-05-01T05:26:53 < karlp> you're looking for ghosts in the daylight man
2019-05-01T05:26:57 < jadew> https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2019/apr/30/venezuela-opposition-leader-juan-guaido-claims-coup-underway-live-news
2019-05-01T05:27:11 < mawk> lol
2019-05-01T05:27:14 < mawk> you won't admit that it isn't clear
2019-05-01T05:27:20 < Cracki> kek
2019-05-01T05:27:32 < mawk> these manuals are supposed to be the top information
2019-05-01T05:27:43 < karlp> it's as clear as anything else in the manuals.
2019-05-01T05:27:48 < karlp> not better, not worse
2019-05-01T05:28:00 < karlp> have you ever tried reading the i2c v1 periph docs?
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2019-05-01T05:29:43 < karlp> re that deabug pic, what leads people to even try that?
2019-05-01T05:29:55 < karlp> it's not for debug, or interposing.
2019-05-01T05:30:06 < mawk> also the fact that the register named «MSI clock PLL enable» can't be enabled without LSE; but that the PLL will still function well with MSI as source isn't very clear either
2019-05-01T05:30:07 < karlp> it's gotta be just for a footprint fuckup right?
2019-05-01T05:31:31 < karlp> that's actuall the only thing that seems to be celarly in the camp of "msi source for pll requires lse"
2019-05-01T05:31:51 < karlp> (I also don't really understand _why_ you would want msi to pll, but ok, we don't have to live in the real world)
2019-05-01T05:31:59 < mawk> to have 80MHz core
2019-05-01T05:32:05 < karlp> hsi16?
2019-05-01T05:32:20 < mawk> yeah, with HSI16 that would work
2019-05-01T05:32:22 < karlp> duh
2019-05-01T05:32:25 < mawk> I was just commenting on catphish's choice of clocks
2019-05-01T05:32:27 < mawk> lol
2019-05-01T05:32:28 < karlp> msi is for lower power
2019-05-01T05:33:48 < Thorn> I just had a dream I was at a job interview
2019-05-01T05:33:51 < Thorn> "So, are you planning to obtain a license to practice magic?"
2019-05-01T05:34:02 < Cracki> oi
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2019-05-01T05:34:57 < Cracki> a job with big cats instead of dogs as pets would be fun
2019-05-01T05:35:38 < mawk> they bite when they're not happy
2019-05-01T05:35:41 < mawk> my hand can testify
2019-05-01T05:36:04 < Cracki> you need more interns
2019-05-01T05:36:56 < catphish> i've ordered those boards :)
2019-05-01T05:37:13 < Cracki> I'm struck by the diverse mess that is the NRZ family of encodings. they only have in common that they are bi-level
2019-05-01T05:37:18 < catphish> now i will learn if i'm capable of soldering an stm32 without a stencil
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2019-05-01T05:38:14 < Cracki> can't tell if they are proportional (0->0, 1->1 or inverted) or "derivative" (01/10 -> edge/high, 00/11 -> no edge/low or inverted)
2019-05-01T05:38:30 < Cracki> what package and do you have a tirefire?
2019-05-01T05:45:53 < mawk> with your hotplate catphish ?
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2019-05-01T05:46:19 < mawk> tyrefire please, speak like a gentleman
2019-05-01T05:47:43 < catphish> mawk: probably, or hot air maybe
2019-05-01T05:48:19 < Cracki> oui, feu de pneu
2019-05-01T05:48:40 < Cracki> I feel like the merowinger
2019-05-01T05:53:29 < Cracki> ooh colorful https://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/FD-Hard.php
2019-05-01T05:53:42 < Cracki> it explains that data/clock stuff
2019-05-01T05:57:40 < zyp> sup?
2019-05-01T05:58:12 < Cracki> he's making a floppy controller
2019-05-01T05:58:18 < Cracki> for atari floppys
2019-05-01T05:58:30 < zyp> so apparently one of my UPSes failed or something and started whining in the middle of the night
2019-05-01T05:58:43 < zyp> and the noise woke up my wife
2019-05-01T05:58:53 < Cracki> wife took axe to it?
2019-05-01T05:58:56 < zyp> who then woke up me to figure out what the fuck was making it
2019-05-01T05:59:00 < Cracki> or ax, dunno
2019-05-01T05:59:13 < zyp> and here I am, unable to go back to sleep
2019-05-01T05:59:14 < zyp> :p
2019-05-01T05:59:20 < Cracki> welcome
2019-05-01T05:59:28 < Cracki> how does the UPS do?
2019-05-01T05:59:45 < Cracki> failed failed or just "press a button" failed?
2019-05-01T06:00:06 < zyp> dunno, I pushed a button on it and it turned off
2019-05-01T06:00:15 < zyp> with my server and shit
2019-05-01T06:00:35 < zyp> which wasn't really my intention, but whatever, should be fine
2019-05-01T06:01:18 < zyp> IIRC shit's a couple months short of six years old, so I'm guessing maybe the battery failed
2019-05-01T06:04:36 < zyp> hmm
2019-05-01T06:06:11 < zyp> UPS model is still for sale, costs 1199 NOK now, cost 799 NOK when I bought it
2019-05-01T06:06:24 < zyp> a replacement battery is 645 NOK now
2019-05-01T06:07:12 < zyp> although, if it's actually failed, I'm leaning towards replacing the entire UPS with a rackmount model, rather than getting a new battery for it
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2019-05-01T06:24:49 < catphish> zyp: turns out you were right abut the approach to MFM decoding, nothing will beat just timing with a timer input and processing the results as they arrive
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2019-05-01T06:25:21 < zyp> :)
2019-05-01T06:25:32 < catphish> i gave up on the idea of "raw" magnetic data, will just use the timer and handle valid MFM only
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2019-05-01T06:26:42 < catphish> designed the world's simplest board to test on, using an l4
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2019-05-01T06:27:53 < zyp> why l4?
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2019-05-01T06:36:49 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/flfqouO.gifv
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2019-05-01T06:57:17 < catphish> zyp: i like the l series, l4 gives high clock speed, means good timing accuracy, and since i need a fair bit of ram, the price of the l4 made sense
2019-05-01T06:57:23 < catphish> now i sleep
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2019-05-01T07:16:25 < dongs> whats a good chink led driver with built in pwm control
2019-05-01T07:16:31 < dongs> so i dont have to constantly dick SPI
2019-05-01T07:16:35 < dongs> TLC5947 is too expensive
2019-05-01T07:16:43 < dongs> TLC59711 too
2019-05-01T07:17:14 < rajkosto> boost ?
2019-05-01T07:17:19 < dongs> npoe
2019-05-01T07:17:24 < dongs> just leds
2019-05-01T07:17:28 < dongs> sink, from 3.3V or whatever
2019-05-01T07:17:36 < dongs> like for rgb blinky shits
2019-05-01T07:17:50 < dongs> (and no i dont want to use WS2812 type shit
2019-05-01T07:18:35 < dongs> some of weird TI shit needs a fucking constant PWM signal going into it
2019-05-01T07:18:38 < dongs> that sorta shit is also out
2019-05-01T07:26:19 < dongs> fuckit just gonna use TLC5971
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2019-05-01T07:35:45 < bitmask> PCA9685?
2019-05-01T07:35:57 < bitmask> oh that shits i2c
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2019-05-01T08:05:34 < Cracki> and pwm but not constant current, iirc
2019-05-01T08:05:54 < Cracki> mostly a pwm IC for servos and whatnot
2019-05-01T08:13:00 < dongs> its definitely been abused for leds, yeah
2019-05-01T08:13:07 < dongs> anyway just ognna use 5971
2019-05-01T08:13:13 < dongs> its cheap enough and like 90k in stock at digikey
2019-05-01T08:15:18 < Cracki> sounds popular
2019-05-01T08:15:35 < Cracki> that must be a few boxes full of reels
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2019-05-01T13:40:28 < jly> m
2019-05-01T13:43:16 < catphish> morning sirs
2019-05-01T13:44:17 < jly> hi there
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2019-05-01T14:41:43 < Steffanx> Hi
2019-05-01T14:54:02 < Cracki> wb catphish, pls try the miller decoder in sigrok for your floppies, or drop some recordings maybe
2019-05-01T14:56:47 < englishman> hello innovators
2019-05-01T15:01:43 < catphish> Cracki: i'm happy to send over a sigrok recording when i get home
2019-05-01T15:01:45 < Cracki> it probably doesn't output binary yet, and a ton of bits as annotation might not be useful
2019-05-01T15:01:48 < Cracki> yay
2019-05-01T15:02:00 < Cracki> (the sigrok decoder)
2019-05-01T15:02:16 < catphish> Cracki: the sigrok MFM decoder seems to be abandoned
2019-05-01T15:02:22 < Cracki> there is one?
2019-05-01T15:02:31 < catphish> https://sigrok.org/wiki/Protocol_decoder:Mfm
2019-05-01T15:02:32 < Cracki> I remember writing something for miller because rfid
2019-05-01T15:02:38 < Cracki> hah
2019-05-01T15:02:39 < catphish> according to the wiki, yes, but the code is gone
2019-05-01T15:02:49 < Cracki> oh well, gief recs, it shall be done
2019-05-01T15:03:28 < catphish> so last night i designed and ordered my prototype pcb, tonight i will rewrite my decoder properly using a timer peripheral
2019-05-01T15:04:21 < catphish> and now i have some real amiga disks i will dump a track from one of those with sigrok
2019-05-01T15:04:30 < Cracki> btw, that funny colored image with the german writing in it, its timing graph is wrong. http://www.pdp11gy.com/MFM-E.html
2019-05-01T15:04:46 < Cracki> the last three pulses need to be two grids later
2019-05-01T15:05:24 < Cracki> that would then correspond to the supposed 0.500 us they colored it to be
2019-05-01T15:06:23 < Cracki> never trust something a german did in paintbrush
2019-05-01T15:06:46 < catphish> i don't understand
2019-05-01T15:06:59 < Cracki> dat http://www.pdp11gy.com/mfm/MFM-timing.jpg
2019-05-01T15:07:03 < catphish> the green rectangles are indeed 0.5us
2019-05-01T15:07:15 < Cracki> red pulses are supposed to be on a rising+falling clock edge
2019-05-01T15:07:19 < Cracki> the last three are off grid
2019-05-01T15:07:33 < Cracki> or rising+level
2019-05-01T15:07:47 < Cracki> rising/falling+level for the second clock
2019-05-01T15:07:51 < catphish> oh i see
2019-05-01T15:08:06 < catphish> yeah some of those have got slightly lost
2019-05-01T15:08:08 < Cracki> whoever made it must have miscounted the distance
2019-05-01T15:08:34 < catphish> they put it on the wrong side of the purple line
2019-05-01T15:08:57 < Cracki> or maybe it was supposed to illustrate jitter but... eh
2019-05-01T15:09:08 < catphish> i think they should actually be *earlier*
2019-05-01T15:09:13 < Cracki> nah
2019-05-01T15:09:32 < catphish> if they were later, the blue box would also be 0.5us
2019-05-01T15:09:37 < Cracki> oh wtf, in a chart further down it's again like this
2019-05-01T15:09:53 < Cracki> the blue box should be 0.5us
2019-05-01T15:09:58 < catphish> oh ok
2019-05-01T15:09:59 < Cracki> the last blue one anyway
2019-05-01T15:10:24 < Cracki> the last three colored boxes are problematic
2019-05-01T15:10:25 < catphish> i can't be bothred to encode it myself and check :)
2019-05-01T15:10:41 < Cracki> basically miller 1 has an edge in the middle, 0 an edge at the beginning or none
2019-05-01T15:11:08 < catphish> the only thing i'm unclear about is once i start to receive an MFM stream (MFM encoded bits), where to start decoding
2019-05-01T15:11:12 < Cracki> and a 0 has no edge if there was an edgy symbol before it
2019-05-01T15:11:27 < Cracki> (uh, a 1 let's say)
2019-05-01T15:11:49 < Cracki> the start bit is 0, I think always
2019-05-01T15:11:56 < Cracki> somewhere someone should talk about framing
2019-05-01T15:12:21 < catphish> http://lclevy.free.fr/adflib/adf_info.html#p21
2019-05-01T15:12:23 < catphish> it's there :)
2019-05-01T15:12:33 < Cracki> haven't thought about whether phase can be recovered from this encoding if you don't have the beginning
2019-05-01T15:12:40 < Cracki> right
2019-05-01T15:13:01 < Cracki> yes that coincides with what I did for the miller PD
2019-05-01T15:13:38 < catphish> so i need to watch for AAAA AAAA 4489 4489
2019-05-01T15:13:46 < Cracki> timings follow from those combinations
2019-05-01T15:13:55 < catphish> once i see that, i know that data immediately follows and i'm sync'd
2019-05-01T15:14:08 < Cracki> sector format, aye
2019-05-01T15:14:26 < Cracki> A is 10
2019-05-01T15:14:34 < Cracki> uh... that...
2019-05-01T15:14:59 < Cracki> yes, zero bits
2019-05-01T15:15:15 < catphish> right, a stream of encoded zeros
2019-05-01T15:15:19 < Cracki> I think that's what the miller PD does too
2019-05-01T15:15:39 < catphish> but it's the raw MFM i need to watch, because i can't decode it yet
2019-05-01T15:16:08 < Cracki> ye
2019-05-01T15:17:23 < Cracki> since that is open drain, I would assume zero means line unasserted/pulled high?
2019-05-01T15:17:41 < catphish> so i'm watching for AAAA AAAA 4489 4489 (1010101010101010 1010101010101010 0100010010001001 0100010010001001)
2019-05-01T15:17:49 < Cracki> or un-inverted?
2019-05-01T15:18:00 < Cracki> looks plausible
2019-05-01T15:18:06 < catphish> yes it's inverted, a "pulse" is the line being pulled low
2019-05-01T15:19:45 < Cracki> it would be a real test case to have the signal and _know_ what it's supposed to decode into
2019-05-01T15:19:57 < catphish> also, per the diagrams, it's not pulled low for a whole half-clock-cycle, the length of the pulse is ignored so it doesn't really matter, but in my drive, the pulse time is 1.5uS
2019-05-01T15:20:06 < catphish> here's the actual singnal https://i.imgur.com/SdHf6Mc.png
2019-05-01T15:20:18 < Cracki> yes, just pulses
2019-05-01T15:20:31 < Cracki> if you apply the miller PD right now, it'll use falling edges by default
2019-05-01T15:20:52 < kakimir> is there a way to know if target was freshly reset?
2019-05-01T15:21:11 < Cracki> I wonder if "peak detection" would make sense (drive does thresholding), or whether the drive starts the pulse at exactly the peak
2019-05-01T15:21:27 < kakimir> I mean if target has not executed a single user program instruction yet
2019-05-01T15:21:38 < Cracki> kakimir, there is a cycle counter, is that maybe reset too?
2019-05-01T15:21:39 < kakimir> PC ofc but it's not guaranteed
2019-05-01T15:21:50 < Cracki> pc ofc, but cycle counter
2019-05-01T15:21:55 < kakimir> cycle counter :o
2019-05-01T15:22:03 < Cracki> I always forget the bugger too
2019-05-01T15:22:05 < catphish> Cracki: what the drive is looking for is a change in magnetic polarity
2019-05-01T15:22:15 < catphish> it generates a pulse every time it sees one
2019-05-01T15:22:23 < catphish> i don't know how
2019-05-01T15:22:46 < Cracki> so... try and see
2019-05-01T15:24:04 < Cracki> I haven't taken clarity away from the descriptions I've read
2019-05-01T15:25:24 < Cracki> just that their intensity varies depending on adjacent domains
2019-05-01T15:25:27 < catphish> Cracki: so next, i will measure the time between pulses, divide the time by 2uS, and i will get the number of bits just read, of which i know the first is a 1 and the remainder are zeros, and but append those known bits to a buffer, then inspect that buffer looking for the sequence above, as soon as it matches, i start streaming
2019-05-01T15:25:57 < catphish> i'll send you a full trace, and let you know if it all works
2019-05-01T15:26:05 < Cracki> yay
2019-05-01T15:26:31 < catphish> i know the process works in theory because at the weekend i was able to read the exact same sequence of MFM encoded bits repeatedly on a loop
2019-05-01T15:32:38 < catphish> the other part of this project is repairing this guy: https://i.imgur.com/c4xrDXW.jpg
2019-05-01T15:33:36 < catphish> looks like some vias, and possibly small tracks need rerouting, really hoping that's the full extent of the damage
2019-05-01T15:33:53 < Cracki> I think my decoder has a bug... it has a case for 2.0 bit times
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2019-05-01T15:34:14 < Cracki> or does it
2019-05-01T15:34:38 < Cracki> 01 00 01 (1 0 1), should be the only way to make 2.0 bit times
2019-05-01T15:34:54 < Cracki> what is that guy
2019-05-01T15:34:58 < Cracki> apart from salty
2019-05-01T15:35:35 < catphish> Cracki: that is an amiga 3000 motherboard
2019-05-01T15:36:04 < Cracki> so rather valuable
2019-05-01T15:36:10 < catphish> it lives in here: https://i.imgur.com/gcQbiQc.jpg
2019-05-01T15:36:33 < catphish> and yes, they're rare, probably worth about $1000 restored
2019-05-01T15:36:47 < mawk> I want one too
2019-05-01T15:38:19 < Cracki> so... ultrasonic bath? drown in alcohol?
2019-05-01T15:38:41 < Cracki> or fine work with a qtip?
2019-05-01T15:38:57 < mawk> alcohol and qtip yes I think
2019-05-01T15:38:58 < mawk> to begin
2019-05-01T15:39:06 < mawk> or alcohol and antistatic whatever
2019-05-01T15:39:09 < mawk> antistatic rag
2019-05-01T15:39:21 < mawk> it's not like it's fragile, big chunky through hole
2019-05-01T15:43:08 < catphish> there's a few options, will be assisted by a professional in my family :)
2019-05-01T15:43:45 < Cracki> niice
2019-05-01T15:43:48 < catphish> the first question is whether to use acid on it first, most people seem to recommend doing so
2019-05-01T15:43:56 < Cracki> o.o
2019-05-01T15:43:59 < catphish> to neutralize the battery chemicals
2019-05-01T15:44:07 < catphish> then wash with alcohol
2019-05-01T15:44:12 < Cracki> ah yes, i read about the same thing for leaked alkaline batteries
2019-05-01T15:44:46 < catphish> just dilute vinegar or lemon
2019-05-01T15:45:06 < catphish> then yeah, alcohol wash, ideally need to wash under the ICs
2019-05-01T15:45:12 < catphish> so might be quite a bath
2019-05-01T15:46:11 < catphish> a lot of people seem to sand down the mask in the damaged areas then re-coat it
2019-05-01T15:46:18 < catphish> i'm not totally sure why
2019-05-01T15:46:58 < catphish> but mostly, all i need to do it get rid of the acid, and reconnect the damaged vias and tracks
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2019-05-01T15:47:15 < catphish> the good news is i have the schematics, and everything is chunky through hole
2019-05-01T15:48:06 < catphish> repairing electonics in the 80s must have been much more achievable than today
2019-05-01T15:48:34 < Cracki> sanding off to get at the corroded, and probably still corroding, parts that the acid alone can't reach
2019-05-01T15:49:21 < mawk> vinegar or lemon both have sugars
2019-05-01T15:49:28 < mawk> won't it be a sticky mess ?
2019-05-01T15:49:49 < Cracki> booze is the solution
2019-05-01T15:49:52 < mawk> lol
2019-05-01T15:50:00 < mawk> you can get like pure citric acid in pharmacies
2019-05-01T15:50:43 < Cracki> the "lemon juice" for food around here is diluted but otherwise pure, not for straight drinking like regular juice
2019-05-01T15:50:58 < Cracki> not sure if they even leave flavor in it
2019-05-01T15:51:20 < mawk> I use it for fish, it has flavor
2019-05-01T15:51:32 < mawk> and sticks to the fingers
2019-05-01T15:51:57 < Cracki> huh
2019-05-01T15:51:58 < catphish> yeah, sanding seems a lot more unpleasant, but i'll decide once the board is out and the battery removed
2019-05-01T15:52:29 < catphish> i don't really want to have to remove components if i can avoid it
2019-05-01T15:53:00 < Cracki> it's not an alkaline battery, or random electrolytic cap. looks like lithium something?
2019-05-01T15:53:49 < Cracki> do those even work with acid/base?
2019-05-01T15:54:31 < mawk> isn't it oxydant/reductor with batteries ?
2019-05-01T15:54:39 < catphish> there clearly is damage under ICs, but hoping a bath will be enough to prevent further damage
2019-05-01T15:54:40 < Cracki> same thing? :P
2019-05-01T15:54:45 < mawk> but I guess one is acid and the other is a base sometimes
2019-05-01T15:54:53 < catphish> Cracki: it's an alkaline battery
2019-05-01T15:54:57 < Cracki> the one end of that lithium thing looks shiny enough
2019-05-01T15:55:06 < Cracki> they make 3.6V alkaline batteries?
2019-05-01T15:55:14 < Cracki> that thing isn't for recharging? it looks soldered in
2019-05-01T15:55:17 < catphish> yes, 3 x 1.2 cells
2019-05-01T15:55:19 < Cracki> huh
2019-05-01T15:55:48 < catphish> afaik it's a rechargeable soldered battery of 3 1.2v cells
2019-05-01T15:56:09 < Cracki> oh, so NiMH or something maybe?
2019-05-01T15:56:39 < catphish> yes, i believe it's NiMH
2019-05-01T15:57:35 < catphish> could be NiCad
2019-05-01T15:57:45 < catphish> i don't know the difference
2019-05-01T15:58:52 < Cracki> good point, might be that
2019-05-01T16:07:57 < kakimir> what kind of interface would you use between gdb and program changing variable values?
2019-05-01T16:08:09 < kakimir> launch gdb as child process?
2019-05-01T16:08:23 < Cracki> socke
2019-05-01T16:08:24 < Cracki> t
2019-05-01T16:08:36 < Cracki> start gdb however you like, then program connects to it
2019-05-01T16:08:46 < Cracki> I think socket to gdb is quite common
2019-05-01T16:09:37 < Cracki> child process might be easier to handle because no connect needed?
2019-05-01T16:10:04 < mawk> with a child process you'd "connect" the pipe
2019-05-01T16:10:08 < mawk> roughly the same amount of code
2019-05-01T16:10:32 < kakimir> further info: has to work on windows
2019-05-01T16:10:37 < mawk> quick and dirty solution would be named pipe
2019-05-01T16:10:54 < kakimir> is the piping in windows?
2019-05-01T16:10:59 < mawk> yes windows has named pipes
2019-05-01T16:12:01 < Cracki> not like linux does
2019-05-01T16:12:09 < mawk> yeah it's not in the libc
2019-05-01T16:12:14 < mawk> but it's here in the windows api
2019-05-01T16:12:20 < Cracki> are you gonna use python?
2019-05-01T16:12:23 < mawk> just need some separate code
2019-05-01T16:12:26 < Cracki> then maybe just use a subprocess
2019-05-01T16:12:48 < kakimir> stdin stdout
2019-05-01T16:12:49 < kakimir> ?
2019-05-01T16:13:05 < Cracki> windows has trouble with select/poll on file descriptors, so if that's something you need, better go with stream sockets
2019-05-01T16:13:09 < mawk> you need to make pipes with your subprocess
2019-05-01T16:13:22 < Cracki> import subprocess; proc = subprocess.Proc(...)
2019-05-01T16:13:32 < Cracki> python handles shit for you
2019-05-01T16:13:46 < Cracki> just not the select/poll because that's impossible on fds on windows
2019-05-01T16:13:46 < kakimir> Imma really shit with python
2019-05-01T16:13:53 < kakimir> C it is
2019-05-01T16:14:02 < Cracki> proc.stdin.write(b"\x00")
2019-05-01T16:14:10 < Cracki> try python
2019-05-01T16:14:42 < Cracki> parsing your csv is like for line in sys.stdin: values = [int(piece) for piece in line.split()]
2019-05-01T16:15:01 < mawk> so kakimir in C you make a pipe() call before fork(), you close one end in the child and dup the other end to stdin, close the opposite end in parent
2019-05-01T16:15:07 < mawk> then you have a pipe
2019-05-01T16:15:15 < mawk> it's one-directionnal, make another pipe for stdout or whatever
2019-05-01T16:15:18 < mawk> and a third for stderr if you want
2019-05-01T16:15:21 < kakimir> I think I have tried it before
2019-05-01T16:15:30 < kakimir> or tried to try
2019-05-01T16:16:02 < kakimir> any nice parsing library for C?
2019-05-01T16:16:05 < Cracki> kek
2019-05-01T16:16:07 < Cracki> strtok
2019-05-01T16:16:09 < mawk> parsing what ?
2019-05-01T16:16:11 < Cracki> his csv
2019-05-01T16:16:14 < mawk> ah
2019-05-01T16:16:15 < mawk> lol
2019-05-01T16:16:16 < Cracki> just use strtok
2019-05-01T16:16:17 < kakimir> or a config file
2019-05-01T16:16:26 < kakimir> or gdb
2019-05-01T16:16:36 < mawk> look up binary protocols for gdb
2019-05-01T16:16:40 < mawk> parsing output and stuff is ugly
2019-05-01T16:16:46 < mawk> even though I'm sure it's what eclipse does
2019-05-01T16:17:06 < Cracki> it definitely uses the machine protocol, not sure if that's binary or just more defined text
2019-05-01T16:17:06 < kakimir> mawk: it's not if you spend a lot of time with it
2019-05-01T16:17:24 < mawk> parsing text is always risky
2019-05-01T16:17:38 < Cracki> srsly for just a simple throwaway script I wouldn't bother with C
2019-05-01T16:17:43 < mawk> sudo used to parse /proc/self/stat file on linux to determine some numerical value
2019-05-01T16:17:47 < Cracki> not even for anything that'll last
2019-05-01T16:18:01 < mawk> by tweaking sudo's name with a symlink you could add space into that file and trick sudo into getting you root
2019-05-01T16:18:08 < mawk> sudo, the program that needs the most to be secure
2019-05-01T16:18:10 < Cracki> lol
2019-05-01T16:18:20 < Cracki> who wrote that, someone named lennart?
2019-05-01T16:18:23 < mawk> lol
2019-05-01T16:18:39 < Cracki> he must have had parents...
2019-05-01T16:19:15 < kakimir> I cannot script
2019-05-01T16:19:21 < kakimir> and it's not a throwaway
2019-05-01T16:19:40 < mawk> I "found" another thing in sudo, I'm sure others did find it too, if you do like sudo -u nobody riskyprogram the riskyprogram can take over your terminal with some well placed ioctl() calls and type commands on your behalf
2019-05-01T16:19:57 < mawk> because sudo reuses the same pseudoterminal for parent and child
2019-05-01T16:20:00 < Cracki> wat
2019-05-01T16:20:02 < mawk> at least with default config
2019-05-01T16:20:10 < kakimir> maybe I will do graphical gauges to it
2019-05-01T16:20:26 < mawk> you can insert commands character by character into the terminal input buffer, and when your program returns it's all typed into the parent bash
2019-05-01T16:20:26 < kakimir> and file selectors
2019-05-01T16:20:46 < Cracki> if you want graphical gauges, look at python's tkinter. it still requires you to subordinate everything to "the gui event loop"
2019-05-01T16:20:58 < kakimir> no man
2019-05-01T16:21:03 < mawk> you do C++ kakimir ?
2019-05-01T16:21:03 < Cracki> file selectors... from c
2019-05-01T16:21:09 < Cracki> are you gonna do a gui in c?
2019-05-01T16:21:13 < Cracki> gtk maybe?
2019-05-01T16:21:14 < mawk> it's possible
2019-05-01T16:21:16 < mawk> yeah gtk
2019-05-01T16:21:19 < kakimir> like it's never done before
2019-05-01T16:21:21 < mawk> or wxwidgets
2019-05-01T16:21:22 < Cracki> masochist
2019-05-01T16:21:27 < kakimir> tk?
2019-05-01T16:21:49 < Cracki> I'm happy to watch this
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2019-05-01T16:45:47 < MrMobius> hey stm8 guys, do you know what architecture this is? http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/135505/STMICROELECTRONICS/ST90T28.html
2019-05-01T16:46:04 < MrMobius> pinout and 12 cycles/instruction but 224 'registers' sounds like modified 8051 trash
2019-05-01T16:57:07 < jpa-> isn't it the ST9 core?
2019-05-01T16:57:19 < jpa-> i.e. isn't ST9 core it's own thing, not 8051 derivative or anything
2019-05-01T16:57:34 < jpa-> https://www.st.com/resource/en/user_manual/cd00004531.pdf
2019-05-01T17:17:53 < englishman> Tesla has lowered the price of the vehicle to $44,999 in Canada, but it also software-locked the vehicle to only 150 km (93 miles) of range
2019-05-01T17:17:58 < englishman> lol what
2019-05-01T17:19:13 < aandrew> wtf
2019-05-01T17:19:48 < Thorn> teslol.com when
2019-05-01T17:20:11 < englishman> aandrew: the fed rebate caps at $45k purchase price
2019-05-01T17:20:23 < englishman> so you pay $45k for the car plus $10k DLC
2019-05-01T17:20:34 < englishman> to have a $55k car with $5k rebate
2019-05-01T17:20:50 < englishman> greasy
2019-05-01T17:21:14 < aandrew> when I see DLC I see "downloadable content" and thought that was the key to unlock more range
2019-05-01T17:22:33 < dongs> MrMobius: thats ST90. their smartcard shit
2019-05-01T17:22:35 < dongs> ancient stuff
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2019-05-01T17:34:09 < Thorn> should I make a slit in the ground plane to protect my 24 bit adc from stray ground currents?
2019-05-01T17:36:16 < Thorn> like here https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/389177
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2019-05-01T18:21:57 < aandrew> Thorn: as long as no traces go over that slit, I don't see why not
2019-05-01T18:22:34 < aandrew> generally speaking though the data suggests a single ground plane without breaks is best
2019-05-01T18:22:51 < aandrew> the idea of slicing planes up to protect areas seems to have been discredited by ott
2019-05-01T18:30:14 < kakimir> doing tricks without way to simulate or validate results is just.. autisming?
2019-05-01T18:30:34 < aandrew> truth
2019-05-01T18:30:48 < kakimir> is the lack of better word for it
2019-05-01T18:48:53 < bitmask> wow, tlc5947 are a lot faster than I thought
2019-05-01T18:49:12 < bitmask> its a shame I would need 12 of em if I wanted to do this
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2019-05-01T18:56:25 < Mangy_Dog> tlc5947 are great
2019-05-01T18:57:13 < bitmask> 96 rgb led would update in 230.4 microseconds @ 15MHz, ws2812b would take 2.88 milliseconds
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2019-05-01T18:57:44 < Mangy_Dog> ohhh thats fast
2019-05-01T18:57:51 < Mangy_Dog> i had no idea they where that fast
2019-05-01T18:57:57 < Mangy_Dog> i knew they couldnt be used on video walls
2019-05-01T18:58:08 < bitmask> says data rate is 30MHz for one, and 15MHz for chained
2019-05-01T18:58:15 < Mangy_Dog> but i could see them actually working on video walls if you multiplex the blocks up somewhat
2019-05-01T18:59:17 < bitmask> I wanna make a rgb pov globe with 96 rbg leds, while ws2812 would be nice for that purpose, its just not fast enough
2019-05-01T18:59:55 < Thorn> routing stm32 after working with lpc8xx with a full pin mux is a major pain
2019-05-01T19:00:04 < Thorn> even a QFP
2019-05-01T19:02:04 < Steffann> Will you be ok?
2019-05-01T19:02:26 < bitmask> who wants to go in on a group buy for tlc5947, send me your monies
2019-05-01T19:03:01 < Steffann> Ill paypal you 2 dollar cent
2019-05-01T19:03:41 < bitmask> :)
2019-05-01T19:04:08 < bitmask> I was trying to get knockoffs on ali but for some reason, everytime I order them they don't arrive
2019-05-01T19:04:14 < bitmask> have a dispute going on right now
2019-05-01T19:04:36 < Steffann> Who makes those?
2019-05-01T19:05:00 < bitmask> it actually shows the TI logo
2019-05-01T19:05:05 < bitmask> but who knows
2019-05-01T19:05:22 < Steffann> Cant you sample em? Or doesnt TI do that no more
2019-05-01T19:05:24 < bitmask> it was $19 for 20
2019-05-01T19:05:31 < bitmask> I doubt they will send me 12
2019-05-01T19:05:36 < dongs> https://makezine.jp/event/mfk2019/ lol
2019-05-01T19:06:07 < bitmask> ooooo so pretty
2019-05-01T19:06:51 < Steffann> Have your mom, gf and whoever sample too, bitmask 
2019-05-01T19:07:30 < dongs>  bitmask: ???????????????????????? why teh fuck would you groupbuy that shit
2019-05-01T19:07:33 < dongs> its like 3 bucks
2019-05-01T19:07:45 < bitmask> I'm cheap
2019-05-01T19:07:53 < bitmask> and I need a bunch of em
2019-05-01T19:08:10 < dongs> for what? its like maker-grade shit
2019-05-01T19:08:34 < bitmask> and I wasn't really being serious
2019-05-01T19:08:51 < bitmask> I wanted to mess around with a pov globe, just havin a little fun
2019-05-01T19:09:26 < Steffann> bitmask is always serious
2019-05-01T19:09:46 < bitmask> deadly
2019-05-01T19:12:43 < Thorn> https://i.imgur.com/2qOtz5p.png
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2019-05-01T19:15:43 < englishman> aandrew: it is
2019-05-01T19:16:04 < englishman> you literally download more battery
2019-05-01T19:18:00 < Thorn> bitmask: what about macroblock drivers, they should be cheaper
2019-05-01T19:18:29 < Thorn> I used MBI5024 with success
2019-05-01T19:18:34 < bitmask> hmm thanks for the tip, i'll check their line up
2019-05-01T19:19:09 < Thorn> (except for one fun detail: their Iq is like 4 mA lol)
2019-05-01T19:19:15 < bitmask> I have a bunch of mbi5024, but those arent pwm are they?
2019-05-01T19:19:35 < Thorn> nope no pwm, just 595 + CC drivers
2019-05-01T19:19:51 < bitmask> yea, for rgb im gonna need pwm, i'll see what else they offer though, thanks
2019-05-01T19:19:58 < bitmask> good to know about the Iq though, yuck
2019-05-01T19:20:42 < Thorn> macroblock had lots of different products on their website, no idea about availability though
2019-05-01T19:21:09 < Thorn> their specialty seems to be drivers for led panels
2019-05-01T19:21:37 < Thorn> and newer ones had pwm last time I looked
2019-05-01T19:22:03 < aandrew> englishman: what a world
2019-05-01T19:22:38 < bitmask> MBI5353
2019-05-01T19:22:40 < bitmask> wow, 48 channel
2019-05-01T19:23:02 < Thorn> https://lcsc.com/brand-detail/496.html
2019-05-01T19:23:04 < englishman> I bet that giant screen is just to show ads to let you drive over the speed limit or something fucking retarded like that that we haven't even thought of yet
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2019-05-01T19:38:08 < bitmask> wtf is scrambled pwm
2019-05-01T19:38:54 < bitmask> MBI5041, $3 for 10 :P
2019-05-01T19:43:01 < jpa-> usually scrambled pwm is reversed bit order on the counter, so that the output frequency can be higher and thus less flickery
2019-05-01T19:44:05 < jpa-> for big displays it is probably also randomized by address so that there aren't huge spikes when all leds switch at once
2019-05-01T19:44:15 < bitmask> yea has that too
2019-05-01T19:46:44 < aandrew> so reversed bit order means that the MSB is switching every clock rather than the LSB?
2019-05-01T19:46:53 < jpa-> yeah
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2019-05-01T19:53:13 < bitmask> man, I wish I could solder qfn
2019-05-01T19:53:49 < Steffann> Blow some hot air
2019-05-01T19:54:42 < bitmask> its on the future shopping list
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2019-05-01T20:11:20 < emeryth> just hold your soldering iron on top of the package until it reflows
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2019-05-01T20:22:37 < icek> whick linux distro i can install gcc-arm-none-eabi versin 8 by his package manager?, that is not available in debian.
2019-05-01T20:22:45 < icek> what about void linux?
2019-05-01T20:24:27 < mawk> just download the package from ARM
2019-05-01T20:31:29 < icek> i downloaded and extracted it and here is four folder (arm-none-eabi, bin, lib, share), what should i do?
2019-05-01T20:31:47 < mawk> you set your PATH to $arm_toolchain/bin
2019-05-01T20:31:57 < mawk> export PATH="$arm_toolchain/bin:$PATH"
2019-05-01T20:31:59 < mawk> like this
2019-05-01T20:32:06 < mawk> then you can use arm-none-eabi-gcc
2019-05-01T20:34:59 < jpa-> i just put ~/bin in my PATH and symlink everything there
2019-05-01T20:35:40 < icek> i should export only for bin folder?
2019-05-01T20:36:07 < jpa-> yeah, the ARM packages are built so that they'll find everything else they need automatically
2019-05-01T20:36:34 < icek> what about include folder?
2019-05-01T20:36:53 < jpa-> that also
2019-05-01T20:37:40 < icek> jpa-: export?
2019-05-01T20:38:02 < jpa-> no, that also is built-in to compiler and it will automatically include the headers that come with it
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2019-05-01T20:45:58 < icek> i copied it to /opt/arm-bin and export the path, but when i excute $which arm-none-eabi-gcc the output is /usr/bin/arm-none-eabi-gcc, i should remove old version?
2019-05-01T20:46:13 < icek> because they have same name?
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2019-05-01T20:48:03 < jpa-> easiest is to uninstall old version, but you can just export it in front of path and run hash -r
2019-05-01T20:51:37 < icek> i don't know this command "hash"
2019-05-01T20:52:01 < icek> but i did this apt purge gcc-arm-none-eabi gcc-arm-none-eabi-source gdb-arm-none-eabi binutils-arm-none-eabi
2019-05-01T20:52:07 < icek> and it solved
2019-05-01T20:58:27 < icek> arm-none-eabi-gcc: error trying to exec 'cc1': execvp: No such file or directory
2019-05-01T21:00:13 < icek> i didn't work well, when i was trying to compile code that compile well with old version i got this error
2019-05-01T21:01:40 < icek> maybe because my gcc versin is old "gcc version 6.3.0 20170516 (Debian 6.3.0-18+deb9u1)"?
2019-05-01T21:06:58 < mawk> if you export first into path you don't need to remove old version
2019-05-01T21:07:04 < mawk> also you should not copy just the bin folder
2019-05-01T21:07:08 < mawk> keep the structure as it os
2019-05-01T21:07:17 < mawk> copy to /opt/gcc-something-something
2019-05-01T21:07:32 < mawk> then you do export PATH="/opt/gcc-something-something/bin:$PATH"
2019-05-01T21:07:39 < mawk> do not isolate the bin folder from the rest icek 
2019-05-01T21:14:57 < icek> mawk: i did it works well, thank you.
2019-05-01T21:17:55 < mawk> good
2019-05-01T21:18:54 < mawk> you can add something like _d=/opt/gcc-something-something/bin; [[ $PATH =~ (^|:)"$_d"(:|$) ]] || export PATH="$_d:$PATH"
2019-05-01T21:18:57 < mawk> to ~/.bashrc
2019-05-01T21:21:58 < icek> good idea, i will do
2019-05-01T21:22:22 < mawk> also ;unset _d
2019-05-01T21:22:24 < mawk> after it
2019-05-01T21:22:29 < mawk> just a detail
2019-05-01T21:22:59 < Steffann> ^ lunix.
2019-05-01T21:23:00 < Steffann> -_-
2019-05-01T21:24:23 < Steffann> So Altium does Git. Dongs must be a happy man
2019-05-01T21:26:21 < mawk> you don't like my pro bash abilities Steffann 
2019-05-01T21:27:56 < Steffann> You wouldnt need it in dutchland
2019-05-01T21:28:14 < Steffann> better replace with proper skills :P
2019-05-01T21:29:47 < mawk> :(
2019-05-01T21:33:56 < Steffann> Sorry this wasnt me talking
2019-05-01T21:34:11 < Steffann> Was the ##stm32 devil
2019-05-01T21:34:15 < mawk> you've got a poltergeist
2019-05-01T21:37:00 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2019-05-01T21:37:06 < catphish> hey kids
2019-05-01T21:37:32 < catphish> who wants a sigrok trace of the first track of an amiga disk? nutty.tk/amigatrack.sr
2019-05-01T21:37:32 < Steffann> Hi dad
2019-05-01T21:37:52 < Steffann> Nah thanks
2019-05-01T21:38:05 < catphish> i believe Cracki does
2019-05-01T21:38:16 < Steffann> Share it publicly
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2019-05-01T21:38:47 -!- veegee_ [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee_]
2019-05-01T21:39:17 < catphish> i don't think i could have got any more public without writing to the times newspaper with it :)
2019-05-01T21:41:44 < jpa-> you can always announce it in the official newspaper of finland
2019-05-01T21:42:06 < catphish> or Cracki could just use the URL ;)
2019-05-01T21:42:54 < catphish> now back to decoding it :)
2019-05-01T21:43:20 < Steffanx> Uh the .tk was an url lol. 
2019-05-01T21:43:41 < catphish> oh  i guess it was quite a shit url with no protocol
2019-05-01T21:44:07 < catphish> i see the confusions :)
2019-05-01T21:44:48 < Steffanx> .tk in 2019 :)
2019-05-01T21:45:05 < catphish> i just renewed it for 2 more years :D
2019-05-01T21:45:12 < catphish> so its at least .tk til 2021
2019-05-01T21:46:14 < catphish> domain registrars seem to have given up on whois :(
2019-05-01T21:46:56 < catphish> seems when GDPR happened they were too lazy to ask people if they wanted their details in a public database or not, so it's dead
2019-05-01T21:58:56 < Steffanx> yeah its nice
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2019-05-01T22:07:30 < icek> exit
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2019-05-01T22:37:20 < Steffanx> lol windows. why i have a desktop with a cursor, task bar at all. can move stuff to the display, but nothing shows up.
2019-05-01T22:37:23 < Steffanx> my cursor does though
2019-05-01T22:39:43 < bitmask> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/LED-Drivers_MBI5043GP_C110098.html
2019-05-01T22:39:47 < bitmask> how is this THIS cheap?
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2019-05-01T22:41:27 < zyp> economics of scale, that shit can be chained
2019-05-01T22:44:34 < bitmask> if only they made a 24 channel one
2019-05-01T22:49:22 < Steffanx> so did you but a midi controller mr kakimir?
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2019-05-01T23:23:18 < jadew> https://imgur.com/gallery/CMh1qe2
2019-05-01T23:27:47 < BrainDamage> kakimir learning synths?
2019-05-01T23:30:03 < catphish> these acronyms take me an hour to decipher every time: "CC1 channel is configured as input, IC1 is mapped on TI1"
2019-05-01T23:31:23 < Steffanx> Tuning control loops BrainDamage 
2019-05-01T23:33:01 < BrainDamage> I feel like it's better if I don't ask further
2019-05-01T23:33:09 < Steffanx> Yes.
2019-05-01T23:33:31 < Steffanx> He wanted some interface with potmeters et all
2019-05-01T23:33:38 < Steffanx> Physical knobs
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2019-05-01T23:43:36 < zyp> catphish, sounds like a sign you should put more effort into reading the reference manual
2019-05-01T23:44:07 < zyp> or just study the architecture graph for the timer, I think you'll find all three terms on it
--- Day changed Thu May 02 2019
2019-05-02T00:02:31 < catphish> zyp: that's probably true
2019-05-02T00:19:11 < Thorn> catphish: there is a couple of timer appnotes, "timer cookbook" and "cross-series timer overview" or some such
2019-05-02T00:21:45 < catphish> it's ok, i always get there, just always takes me an hour
2019-05-02T00:21:59 < catphish> i never remember the details between each time i use it
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2019-05-02T01:14:39 < catphish> timer works now :)
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2019-05-02T02:06:38 < mawk> nice
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2019-05-02T03:03:52 < mawk> you should try nRF52 some time catphish 
2019-05-02T03:04:08 < mawk> you have something a bit like timer and triggers but ∞ more powerful
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2019-05-02T03:55:22 < aandrew> hm, weird
2019-05-02T03:55:39 < aandrew> ST FAE recommended using their programmer tool and hardware (I have a stlinkv2) on the failing boards
2019-05-02T03:55:50 < aandrew> the one board didn't change at all, but the other it brought back from the dead
2019-05-02T03:56:06 < aandrew> option bytes reset worked and flash programming worked
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2019-05-02T04:02:55 < Cracki> catphish, thx
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2019-05-02T04:10:52 < Cracki> do you know what it's supposed to decode to?
2019-05-02T04:14:13 < aandrew> stm32 timers can be a little involved
2019-05-02T04:14:22 < aandrew> but once you get the hang of it it all does make considerable sense
2019-05-02T04:14:26 < Cracki> the symbol stream appears uninterrupted, except for some weird bounces coming over from the second channel
2019-05-02T04:18:19 < Cracki> I think I'll have to rework that PD for robustness. it can certainly recover when it sees a 2.0t interval
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2019-05-02T04:55:39 < dongs> is there a 8:1 or gate that is very low power?
2019-05-02T04:56:17 < dongs> hm there's nand
2019-05-02T04:56:18 < dongs> wtf does that do
2019-05-02T04:56:53 < dongs> oic. matybe what i need
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2019-05-02T05:16:49 < dongs> or amybe ill just use diodes
2019-05-02T05:17:00 < dongs> i wanna take a bunch of buttons and stick them into PA0
2019-05-02T05:17:03 < dongs> for wake up on press
2019-05-02T05:23:17 < Cracki> I second the nand
2019-05-02T05:23:25 < Cracki> any 0 input makes it high
2019-05-02T05:23:40 < dongs> thats no good for battery actually
2019-05-02T05:23:45 < dongs> anyway, diodes will do
2019-05-02T05:23:47 < dongs> cuz i dont need to power them
2019-05-02T05:24:25 < Cracki> ic
2019-05-02T05:24:52 < englishman> like put a bunch of buttons and any one of them will wake up your shit?
2019-05-02T05:25:07 < dongs> yeah
2019-05-02T05:25:22 < englishman> why not just put them all in parallel with apullup
2019-05-02T05:25:22 < dongs> i negro sim'd it in circuitmaker and it works
2019-05-02T05:25:28 < dongs> because pullup
2019-05-02T05:25:31 < dongs> -> battery
2019-05-02T05:25:41 < englishman> yeah
2019-05-02T05:25:44 < englishman> not a 100r pullup
2019-05-02T05:25:52 < dongs> i dont see how that solves the problem?
2019-05-02T05:26:14 < dongs> 'in parallel' to waht?
2019-05-02T05:26:18 < englishman> pa0
2019-05-02T05:26:18 < dongs> only PA0 wakes up from sleep/reset
2019-05-02T05:26:34 < dongs> i still want to track individual button preses
2019-05-02T05:26:40 < dongs> not just a gang wake up
2019-05-02T05:26:42 < englishman> oh adding requirements now
2019-05-02T05:26:50 < dongs> what, why the fuck else would I need X buttons
2019-05-02T05:26:54 < englishman> idk
2019-05-02T05:26:56 < dongs> if I only wanted to press any of htem to wake up
2019-05-02T05:26:57 < englishman> i thought it was weird
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2019-05-02T05:27:47 < englishman> put different series resistors, pipe it to pa0 and adc, after wakeup poll adc for value before user depresses
2019-05-02T05:28:34 < dongs> haha
2019-05-02T05:29:09 < englishman> startup time + adc time is what, a millisecond
2019-05-02T05:29:17 < englishman> even if its 10
2019-05-02T05:29:20 < englishman> should work
2019-05-02T05:30:26 < englishman> then you can use your fancy 12bit adc to measure 8 different bins all below pin low threshold
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2019-05-02T06:51:45 < Cracki> catphish, here's some more documentation on floppies, thanks to #sigrok https://github.com/GlasgowEmbedded/Glasgow/blob/master/software/glasgow/applet/memory/floppy/__init__.py#L7
2019-05-02T06:52:19 < dongs> > .py
2019-05-02T06:52:20 < dongs> page closed
2019-05-02T06:52:52 < dongs> why do faggots insist on writing non-trivial shit in gaython
2019-05-02T06:53:34 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-05-02T06:54:02 < dongs> What software does Glasgow use?
2019-05-02T06:54:02 < dongs> Glasgow is written entirely in Python 3. The interface logic that runs on the FPGA is described using Migen, which is a Python-based domain specific language. The supporting code that runs on the host PC is written in Python with asyncio. This way, the logic on the FPGA can be assembled on demand for any requested configuration, keeping it as fast and compact as possible.
2019-05-02T06:54:08 < dongs> get FUCKED
2019-05-02T06:54:11 < Cracki> no idea, not interested
2019-05-02T06:54:30 < Cracki> my interest is in the collected information on floppy stuff
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2019-05-02T07:08:27 < aandrew> you have to admit that writing something up in python is a fuckload easier than doing it in C
2019-05-02T07:08:40 < aandrew> changing the system, adding and debugging is all significantly faster
2019-05-02T07:09:02 < aandrew> I dislike the idea for other reasons, but there's no denying the flexibility gained in using something like python for this
2019-05-02T07:10:00 < Cracki> I'm curious for the other reasons
2019-05-02T07:23:08 < aandrew> Cracki: python pulls in a lot of dependencies. it introduces a lot of variation (python version, import versions, etc.) it's difficult to debug anything lowlevel with it. it encourages people to write "big" code because cpu+ram is "cheap"
2019-05-02T07:23:17 < aandrew> and the fucking indentation being part of syntax of course
2019-05-02T07:23:45 < Cracki> heh I certainly am with you about that indentation. I'd love for it to have braces
2019-05-02T07:24:28 < Cracki> it's a scripting language ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-05-02T07:25:04 < Cracki> and certainly not a good idea on small embedded systems
2019-05-02T07:25:17 < aandrew> things like migen I'm also not a fan of
2019-05-02T07:25:27 < aandrew> all part of the same "space is cheap" mentality
2019-05-02T07:25:30 < Cracki> oh that's just their failure to make a decent DSL
2019-05-02T07:25:38 < aandrew> and it's all translated to verilog too if I'm not mistaken
2019-05-02T07:25:43 < Cracki> that's right
2019-05-02T07:25:43 < aandrew> DSL?
2019-05-02T07:25:48 < Cracki> Domain specific language
2019-05-02T07:25:55 < Cracki> it still reads like python tho
2019-05-02T07:26:44 < Cracki> migen and other attempts at abstracting hardware description languages, imho, fail because they very much seem bolted on
2019-05-02T07:27:12 < Cracki> weird "abstractions" that feel more like java class jungles
2019-05-02T07:27:25 < Cracki> not "cooked" enough
2019-05-02T07:28:17 < Cracki> the whole point of migen is to express yourself in a language that _makes it possible_, and then generate verilog from that
2019-05-02T07:28:21 < Cracki> a kind of compiler if you will
2019-05-02T07:29:07 < aandrew> yeah ... that's awful
2019-05-02T07:29:21 < Cracki> except they don't create a language, or even just a "DSL", but really a library
2019-05-02T07:29:46 < Cracki> do you find the implementation awful, or the idea of compilers from higher to lower language?
2019-05-02T07:30:32 < aandrew> the latter
2019-05-02T07:30:45 < Cracki> then you must hate system verilog
2019-05-02T07:31:18 < Cracki> or high level synthesis (compiling loops and kernels from c++ to hardware)
2019-05-02T07:31:54 < aandrew> correct again
2019-05-02T07:32:17 < aandrew> I like the idea of formal verification though
2019-05-02T07:33:01 < Cracki> look the other way: what makes you tolerate vhdl/verilog instead of writing netlists directly?
2019-05-02T07:33:13 < Cracki> formal verification could do nothing for netlists
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2019-05-02T08:21:56 < dongs> gay
2019-05-02T08:46:33 < dongs> whats a common chinasocket for micro sim
2019-05-02T08:56:27 < dongs> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Connector-Card-Sockets_Korean-Hroparts-Elec-SIM-01A_C99403.html this has the msot stock on lcsc
2019-05-02T08:56:45 < dongs> wonder what its a cloen of
2019-05-02T08:56:47 < dongs> to get 3d model
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2019-05-02T09:01:02 < dongs> https://gct.co/connector/digi-key/sim7200
2019-05-02T09:01:04 < dongs> nice 3d model
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2019-05-02T09:24:13 < dongs> footprint fits too
2019-05-02T09:31:56 < aandrew> nice what're you up to with SIMs
2019-05-02T09:34:55 < emeb_mac> last contract I worked on we took over a failed design that someone had tried to do using migen/python.
2019-05-02T09:35:32 < emeb_mac> did it all in hand-coded VHDL. Made it work, fit in much less hardware than they though it would need.
2019-05-02T09:36:56 < emeb_mac> I could see using those kinds of tools for "quick & dirty" or "cost is no object" prototypes.
2019-05-02T09:37:27 < emeb_mac> but until the tools get a lot better I suspect that they'll remain inefficient & costly.
2019-05-02T09:38:51 < aandrew> yep
2019-05-02T09:38:56 < aandrew> that's why I like VHDL
2019-05-02T09:39:05 < aandrew> not even verilog, although it's not a density thing there
2019-05-02T09:39:32 < aandrew> it's a "I don't like my hardware description language to make the same assumptions I'm comfortable with my C compiler making"
2019-05-02T09:40:24 < emeb_mac> I can go either way on that axis. I like VHDL's strict nature for paying work, but I like Verilog for personal projects where I just want to knock something out with minimal fuss.
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2019-05-02T09:42:25 < dongs> aandrew: LTE / lora trash lol
2019-05-02T09:42:36 < dongs> cancer already.
2019-05-02T09:46:35 < aandrew> heh
2019-05-02T09:46:49 < aandrew> there is another project where they're combining those two technologies
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2019-05-02T10:01:36 < Cracki> when C++ was a bunch of macros on top of C, I think it was equally hated
2019-05-02T10:02:28 < Cracki> and equally green
2019-05-02T10:07:15 < Cracki> this is ugly and nobody will seriously use it, but it's a testing ground for ideas that might eventually coalesce into a usable language https://m-labs.hk/migen/manual/fhdl.html
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2019-05-02T10:23:56 < dongs> External pull-up resistor is required. 1.8V only. If unused, keep it open.
2019-05-02T10:23:58 < dongs> so which is it, niggers
2019-05-02T10:24:10 < dongs> open != "pull up resistor required"
2019-05-02T10:26:30 < rajkosto> if the pin isnt used ?
2019-05-02T10:26:51 < rajkosto> might just mean it has no internal option for PU/PD
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2019-05-02T10:38:30 < dongs> i am not using i2c funciton no
2019-05-02T10:38:37 < dongs> so, i wonder if I should still pullu p or not care
2019-05-02T10:38:44 < dongs> the docs dont mention about ipu so.
2019-05-02T10:41:35 < catphish> Cracki: 1) i don't know what it's supposed to recover to, but there are checksums in there, so it should be possible to be sure when you're successful
2019-05-02T10:43:30 < catphish> Cracki: 2) the bitstream is likely continuous because tracks are written starting at a random position, and this is an old disk that's likely been overwritten repeatedly, so even if there was a gap, it would be full of random bits from a previous write
2019-05-02T10:43:47 -!- scrts [~quassel@unaffiliated/scrts] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-05-02T10:44:24 < catphish> 3) the pulse on channel 2 is generated by the drive to mark one complete revolution of the disk, so the data should perfectly repeat with that interval
2019-05-02T10:46:17 < catphish> 4) while i don't have an image to compare with, the disk is a pirate copy of a game called prehistork
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2019-05-02T10:51:33 < catphish> 5) being a game, it likely doesn't use a standard filesystem, but it almost certainly contains 11 x 512 byte sectors of data plus a standard header for each sector
2019-05-02T10:52:19 < catphish> everything i know about it is here: http://lclevy.free.fr/adflib/adf_info.html
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2019-05-02T11:01:29 < R2COM> dongs in discord there IS a history for private message in chat
2019-05-02T11:01:31 < R2COM> just use @
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2019-05-02T11:01:41 < R2COM> you said once it cant do this
2019-05-02T11:01:52 < jadew> what's discord?
2019-05-02T11:01:55 < jadew> a chat platform?
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2019-05-02T11:42:46 < R2COM> its 2019 everyone has his own discord and knows what it is
2019-05-02T11:44:24 < jly> gooday mate
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2019-05-02T11:46:37 < jly> AARS count was 20 - May2019
2019-05-02T11:46:50 < jly> sorry April
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2019-05-02T11:53:46 < Cracki> hah! that cube IDE is indeed "just" truestudio+cubemx
2019-05-02T11:54:19 < Cracki> and the catfish is gone
2019-05-02T11:54:26 < jly> eh
2019-05-02T11:54:48 < Cracki> got spam from ST just now, they advertise their new monster
2019-05-02T11:57:27 < jly> what type of monster? STM64?
2019-05-02T11:58:03 < Steffanx> The cubeIDE
2019-05-02T11:58:22 < jly> yeah I was guessing it would come to that
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2019-05-02T12:32:48 < karlp> dongs: why u no esim?
2019-05-02T12:36:04 < karlp> Cracki: who'd suggested that cube ide was going to be something else?
2019-05-02T12:36:17 < karlp> they bought atollic, not just licensed it. they aquired the whole thing.
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2019-05-02T12:36:24 < karlp> of course it's all going to be atollic based from now.
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2019-05-02T12:54:42 < mawk> it's compatible with system workbench too
2019-05-02T12:55:07 < Cracki> of course, it's all just eclipse
2019-05-02T12:55:19 < mawk> surprisingly it's not compatible with previous MX makefile projects, it doesn't want to import the old mx project file
2019-05-02T12:56:04 < mawk> unless you guess the correct name it must have or modify by hand project files
2019-05-02T12:56:46 < mawk> it's not the only bug, code analysis is quirky too
2019-05-02T13:06:23 < rajkosto> dongs, how the dick do you unassociated Altium from .c files
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2019-05-02T13:13:01 < englishman> haha
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2019-05-02T13:25:09 < Steffanx> Right click C file, properties, "opens with:.... [Change]". Such windows
2019-05-02T13:27:05 < rajkosto> yeah it sets it right back
2019-05-02T13:27:44 < Steffanx> Aha. Lol
2019-05-02T13:27:54 < Steffanx> Altium4ever
2019-05-02T13:29:14 < Steffanx> And did you google: https://www.altium.com/documentation/18.0/display/ADES/WorkspaceManager_Dlg-SysPrefsForm_FileTypes((System+-+File+Types))_AD ?
2019-05-02T13:29:40 < Steffanx> Or is C not in the list hm?
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2019-05-02T13:43:49 < jly> thanks
2019-05-02T14:04:25 < rajkosto> Steffanx, https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-02_13-04-19_JRXiFrDZU.png theres no C stuff there at all
2019-05-02T14:24:05 < Steffanx> Hm
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2019-05-02T14:42:46 < rajkosto> those apa102 are really nice to drive from stm32
2019-05-02T14:49:40 < Thorn> apparently on some ST boards an MCO from onboard st-link is connected to OSC_IN of the target mcu. this means st-links have to configure their MCO to output clock. which st-links do it and can you turn it off via usb or something?
2019-05-02T14:50:06 < englishman> i thought that was on most st devboards?
2019-05-02T14:50:17 < englishman> you can disconnect it via solderbridge
2019-05-02T14:50:56 < englishman> you could flash stlink v2 to it which probably doesnt have mco output enabled
2019-05-02T14:51:27 < Thorn> so it's only 2.1 that has it enabled?
2019-05-02T14:51:40 < karlp> it's pretty much all of them as I remember
2019-05-02T14:51:45 < englishman> well i would assume so as there is not much point of having the mco output on a real stlink?
2019-05-02T14:51:58 < englishman> worth a shot if it's what you need
2019-05-02T14:52:00 < karlp> you just treat it as hse iirc.
2019-05-02T14:52:09 < karlp> it's been around longer then just stlink2.1 iirc
2019-05-02T14:52:17 < englishman> oh yeah, on disco boards too
2019-05-02T14:52:29 < Thorn> even standalone st-links? (though it's not available @ the connnector most likely)
2019-05-02T14:52:38 < karlp> how would astandlone stlink do it?
2019-05-02T14:52:38 < englishman> time for: experiment
2019-05-02T14:52:47 < karlp> it's somethign that's ~transparant for you
2019-05-02T14:52:55 < karlp> you just don't have a discrete hse crystal on the target section.
2019-05-02T14:53:08 < englishman> i think he is asking how to disable mco output on the stlink, no?
2019-05-02T14:53:17 < englishman> for whatever reason
2019-05-02T14:53:19 < karlp> read the user manual then.
2019-05-02T14:53:23 < karlp> there's solder jumpers for it.
2019-05-02T14:53:49 < englishman> 	<englishman>	you can disconnect it via solderbridge
2019-05-02T14:55:11 < englishman> how long would the cats play with a toy made up of a bunch of those chinese HUB75 panels
2019-05-02T14:55:12 < karlp> Thorn: you're doing xy problem ....
2019-05-02T14:55:44 < Thorn> I just find it funny that standalone st-link probably has MCO enabled, too
2019-05-02T14:56:15 < Thorn> same firmware after all (unless it detects somehow that it's standalone and disables that)
2019-05-02T14:56:23 < karlp> probably, but the pin wouldb't be connected anywhere
2019-05-02T14:56:27 < karlp> so it's just an EMI issue.
2019-05-02T15:18:03 < kakimir> GDB/MI
2019-05-02T15:18:10 < kakimir> have you heard of such?
2019-05-02T15:18:29 < kakimir> MI =? machine interface
2019-05-02T15:21:51 < specing> Is there a e-bicycle screen kit with a stm32?
2019-05-02T15:22:09 < specing> a box with an lcd and a pcb that is ready for programming?
2019-05-02T15:23:07 < specing> and a few buttons
2019-05-02T15:25:27 < karlp> if that's all you want, why does it need to be stm32?
2019-05-02T15:25:49 < specing> karlp: so I can program it :)
2019-05-02T15:26:01 < specing> (and this is ##stm32)
2019-05-02T15:29:32 < specing> karlp: something like this, but a real LCD, not just 7segs https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.americanjobcreators.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F06%2Felectric-bike-parts-new-electric-bicycle-led-display-810-control-panel-3-assist-light-gallery-of-electric-bike-parts.jpg&f=1
2019-05-02T15:30:03 < specing> and with less bezels and with at least 4 buttons on the top or bottom
2019-05-02T15:30:38 < kakimir> could there be a business in doing dev kits that have nice usable enclosures?
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2019-05-02T16:08:11 < Thorn> blue origin launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxy9SJaE9Uc
2019-05-02T16:09:59 < Steffanx> Is it live? ;)
2019-05-02T16:13:22 < rajkosto> https://streamable.com/ojoza why is most of the pads nothing
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2019-05-02T16:23:48 < Thorn> yes Mr. Steffanx live
2019-05-02T16:29:56 < Steffanx> Ty
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2019-05-02T16:54:43 < specing> kakimir: maybe
2019-05-02T16:54:56 < specing> kakimir: surely
2019-05-02T16:55:04 < specing> kakimir: absolutely!
2019-05-02T16:55:23 < specing> Thorn: meeeeh, Elon has all the wow
2019-05-02T17:24:56 < jadew> https://www.today.com/food/burger-king-debuts-unhappy-meals-because-no-one-happy-all-t153339
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2019-05-02T17:52:45 < englishman> Thorn: it says replay in the corner? is it over?
2019-05-02T17:52:52 < englishman> oh I guess so
2019-05-02T17:52:54 < englishman> looked cool
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2019-05-02T18:09:55 < Thorn> how do I make a current source with minimum dropout (for display backlight)? op amp + bjt like https://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~dsculley/tutorial/opamps/opamps7.html ?
2019-05-02T18:10:30 < Thorn> I want it to work through the range of li-ion voltages
2019-05-02T18:10:42 < Thorn> without changing the brighness
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2019-05-02T18:20:11 < specing> Thorn: maybe opamp feeeding measurement over a current shunt?
2019-05-02T18:27:22 < rajkosto> great, this proprietary cortex-M0 cpu with firmware i have no source of, cannot give me a proper result for sending pure green color, what do
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2019-05-02T18:44:49 < specing> Why not ragequit from ##stm32?
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2019-05-02T19:04:50 < Thorn> specing: isn't that exactly the circuit that I linked
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2019-05-02T19:09:34 < dongs> Thorn: did falcon heavy just take off?
2019-05-02T19:09:57 < Thorn> are you also watching that "live" channel
2019-05-02T19:10:14 < Thorn> no, falcon heavy last took off on apr 11
2019-05-02T19:10:29 < dongs> eyah some faggot just linked me that "space live official" shit
2019-05-02T19:10:36 < dongs> https://youtu.be/DPfHHls50-w
2019-05-02T19:11:10 < Thorn> they are misleading and deceptive
2019-05-02T19:13:01 < dongs> yeah
2019-05-02T19:16:06 < specing> Thorn: could be
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2019-05-02T19:32:41 < englishman> fuck gpib
2019-05-02T19:38:26 < karlp> indeed.
2019-05-02T19:39:12 < Steffanx> Poor englishman 
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2019-05-02T19:41:02 < englishman> the future is definitely not irccloud
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2019-05-02T21:01:59 < Thorn> CRS-17 T - 13 h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKoGHJppW7c
2019-05-02T21:19:15 < mawk> my mom received scam hacking mail
2019-05-02T21:19:34 < mawk> like "I've got you wanking on tape, send 5btc or I show everyone"
2019-05-02T21:19:52 < jpa-> was it meant for you?
2019-05-02T21:19:56 < mawk> lol
2019-05-02T21:20:07 < mawk> no, it's at her work mail
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2019-05-02T21:34:24 < Thorn> if she had nothing to fear she wouldn't show it to you
2019-05-02T21:35:06 < mawk> lol
2019-05-02T21:35:13 < mawk> she has no webcam
2019-05-02T21:35:17 < mawk> nothing to fear
2019-05-02T21:35:27 < mawk> but it's her work computer with 20 years of files on it
2019-05-02T21:35:34 < mawk> 5 years required by law to keep
2019-05-02T21:35:38 < mawk> so she cares for the data
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2019-05-02T22:21:05 < Cracki> REGULAR BACKUPS and don't forget to verify that you can restore them
2019-05-02T22:21:16 < mawk> yeah I backup my mom's stuff
2019-05-02T22:34:52 < jadew> that seems to be the new scam this year
2019-05-02T22:34:54 < Cracki> backup to usb drives or something, rotate regularly into a safe deposit box
2019-05-02T22:35:09 < jadew> wrong!
2019-05-02T22:35:15 < jadew> backup to DVDs!
2019-05-02T22:35:30 < jadew> they can not be erased, not even by a virus
2019-05-02T22:35:37 < Cracki> hm good point
2019-05-02T22:36:05 < jadew> I've been doing it like this for years
2019-05-02T22:36:12 < Cracki> a year ago I bought these "m-discs" thinking my drive could write them... it can't
2019-05-02T22:36:36 < jadew> I'd like to buy blurays, but they're still a bit too expensive
2019-05-02T22:37:06 < Cracki> eh, for the capacity maybe not. append-write to save :P
2019-05-02T22:37:15 < jadew> yeah, that's how I do it anyway
2019-05-02T22:37:33 < jadew> I wrote a little tool that does incremental backup, so I write the main backup then fill the disk with the little ones
2019-05-02T22:37:40 < jadew> when it's full, I create a new full backup
2019-05-02T22:37:47 < Cracki> this here says 1 buck a piece https://geizhals.de/?cat=blumedbdr
2019-05-02T22:37:56 < Cracki> or a third of a buck really
2019-05-02T22:38:06 < jadew> that would be pretty good
2019-05-02T22:38:08 < jadew> let me check
2019-05-02T22:38:18 < Cracki> cheapest of the cheap of course
2019-05-02T22:38:27 < jadew> you don't need better
2019-05-02T22:39:16 < Thorn> why not LTO streamers
2019-05-02T22:39:28 < Cracki> gief streamer
2019-05-02T22:39:45 < Cracki> I'd use LTO for MASS STORAGE
2019-05-02T22:39:53 < Cracki> random documents, not so much
2019-05-02T22:40:33 < jadew> how reliable are they?
2019-05-02T22:40:42 < jadew> can you use them for long-term storage?
2019-05-02T22:40:45 < Cracki> yes
2019-05-02T22:40:56 < Cracki> our uni's compute center uses LTO for long term storage
2019-05-02T22:41:08 < Cracki> not sure what elvel they're on but they have a huge libary
2019-05-02T22:41:22 < Cracki> LTO is cheaper than disk, of course
2019-05-02T22:41:36 < Cracki> (except for the streamer, but that's a one time cost)
2019-05-02T22:41:46 < specing> ((until it breaks down))
2019-05-02T22:42:23 < jadew> I've been looking for a safe way of storing pictures
2019-05-02T22:42:36 < Cracki> the benefit of separate tape and reader is the reader can break and you still can feed the tape into another reader
2019-05-02T22:42:44 < jadew> something that would survive a lifetime
2019-05-02T22:42:45 < Cracki> but it's erasable
2019-05-02T22:42:58 < Cracki> just print them out :>
2019-05-02T22:43:22 < jadew> then I would need to rent a storage container
2019-05-02T22:43:58 < Cracki> look for LTO 3/4/5 drives, they can be had used and cheap
2019-05-02T22:44:30 < Cracki> LTO 3 is 0.4 TB (uncompressed), then 0.8 and 1.5 TB
2019-05-02T22:45:32 < jadew> neat
2019-05-02T22:46:42 < jadew> jeez, LTO7 is 15 Tb
2019-05-02T22:46:46 < Cracki> LTO 3 writes at 80 MB/s... to give you an idea
2019-05-02T22:46:56 < Cracki> (2005 tech)
2019-05-02T22:46:57 < jadew> that's more than decent
2019-05-02T22:47:07 < jadew> it's as fast as a spinning disk
2019-05-02T22:47:08 < Cracki> newer drives can read older tapes
2019-05-02T22:47:16 < Cracki> lto 8 does 360 MB/s
2019-05-02T22:47:24 < Cracki> and still takes over 9 hours to fill the tape
2019-05-02T22:47:40 < jadew> yeah, I assume the newer ones have higher read/write resolution
2019-05-02T22:47:44 < Cracki> ignore the "compressed" capacity, that's marketing
2019-05-02T22:47:55 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_Tape-Open#Generations
2019-05-02T22:48:20 < jadew> 6 Tb, still not bad
2019-05-02T22:48:34 < Cracki> pictures, unless they're bitmap, are only marginally compressible
2019-05-02T22:48:48 < jadew> yeah
2019-05-02T22:48:59 < jadew> so... this would be the best way of backing up stuff?
2019-05-02T22:49:28 < Cracki> before you put rows of HDDs on your shelf, LTO might be cheaper
2019-05-02T22:49:33 < jadew> (for long term storage)
2019-05-02T22:49:53 < Cracki> I know transplanting HDD platters is possible but I think that would cost three figures at least
2019-05-02T22:50:25 < jadew> you can do it yourself easily
2019-05-02T22:50:32 < aandrew> "easily" ?
2019-05-02T22:50:38 < Cracki> "dust"
2019-05-02T22:50:43 < jadew> I've done it several times, it's not that big of a deal
2019-05-02T22:50:49 < jadew> and dust isn't a problem either
2019-05-02T22:50:56 < aandrew> jadew: I've wanted to attempt, main thing is a head comb which is cheap
2019-05-02T22:50:57 < Cracki> o.o
2019-05-02T22:51:06 < jadew> the moment it starts spinning, any dust goes away
2019-05-02T22:51:11 < aandrew> Cracki: positive airflow from a HEPA filter works for that
2019-05-02T22:51:12 < Cracki> hm
2019-05-02T22:51:42 < aandrew> I have a pair of 1TB ST drives from a RAID1 that I'd like to recover
2019-05-02T22:51:50 < aandrew> not ZOMG NEED THIS stuff but would be nice
2019-05-02T22:52:02 < aandrew> I have a replacement drive that I can swap heads out of (the logic board wasn't enogh)
2019-05-02T22:52:22 < aandrew> but I've also read that some drives it's not that simple to do a logic swap anyway because there's some info that's particular to the media that needs to be copied over
2019-05-02T22:53:02 < jadew> I've haven't been successful with recovering the data from that drive - was able to read *some* stuff, but the transplant went fine
2019-05-02T22:53:27 < jadew> I don't remember if I actually moved the disks or just the heads like you said
2019-05-02T22:55:17 < Cracki> what kinda volume and interval are you considering for archive?
2019-05-02T22:55:38 < Cracki> I'd prolly go for blurays or m-discs if it's not enough to warrant a tape
2019-05-02T22:55:46 < kakimir> does -g affect binary and how?
2019-05-02T22:55:50 < jadew> Cracki, once every couple of months
2019-05-02T22:56:21 < jadew> not sure about the volume, I'd backup a lot of other stuff too, so I can fill a tape like that easily if I have it available
2019-05-02T22:56:39 < Cracki> affects binary insofar as it adds debug info. code _should not_ change.
2019-05-02T22:56:48 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, probably blurays would do it for now
2019-05-02T22:57:08 < PaulFertser> aandrew: yes, simple logic swap doesn't work since many years, but simple EEPROM copy might help I've read.
2019-05-02T22:57:25 < zyp> I've looked at LTO, doesn't really seem worth it
2019-05-02T22:57:32 < PaulFertser> kakimir: just use -g3 always, it's all in ELF but not on target flash.
2019-05-02T22:57:51 < jadew> zyp, price wise or from other points of view?
2019-05-02T22:57:56 < zyp> price wise
2019-05-02T22:58:17 < Cracki> huh
2019-05-02T22:58:29 < Cracki> yes, the streamer is a large up front cost
2019-05-02T22:58:40 < jadew> found some blurays for about 20 cents each, that's not bad
2019-05-02T22:58:47 < zyp> you can get a bunch of harddrives just for the price of a LTO drive, and media is not all that cheap either, so you need to buy quite a lot of it before you break even vs. hard drives
2019-05-02T22:58:54 < aandrew> PaulFertser: it's unfortunate that that media-specific data isn't kept on the media
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2019-05-02T23:00:08 < PaulFertser> aandrew: I think some data is there but you also need a way to read it out. Have you checked seagate uart console commands list? It might give more insights into what works only when the drive is spinning and what doesn't. 
2019-05-02T23:02:54 < aandrew> PaulFertser: I remember looking a bit into this but there's so much information and much of it very poorly organized
2019-05-02T23:03:01 < aandrew> it's all on my "round tuit" list unfortunately
2019-05-02T23:03:19 < aandrew> oh PaulFertser did you hear about my STM32F7 weirdness?
2019-05-02T23:03:27 < PaulFertser> aandrew: no, missed that
2019-05-02T23:03:35 < zyp> cache issue+
2019-05-02T23:03:53 < aandrew> PaulFertser: I designed a board, 10 prototypes built
2019-05-02T23:04:38 < aandrew> there were two serious net errors: PDR_ON was grounded and BYPASS_REG was set to +3.3V (should be opposite, it's an altium error in their schematic part library)
2019-05-02T23:05:14 < aandrew> so I have no power on reset and no 1.2V internal LDO. No worries, I have 1.2V from the FPGA so I bring that over to VCAP_1/2 and force PA0 to 3.3V to enable the 1.2V domain logic
2019-05-02T23:06:00 < aandrew> 4/10 boards do not work; the STM32 is either showing as "read protected" (RDP=1) or flash is weird, I can only write to the first 128 bits of every 256 bits of flash
2019-05-02T23:06:01 < Thorn> >ltspice was last used 227 days ago
2019-05-02T23:06:07 < Thorn> is it trying to shame me or what
2019-05-02T23:06:32 < Thorn> I'm using it on the mac
2019-05-02T23:07:05 < aandrew> jlinkexe cannot unprotect, either with jlinkstm32exe nor jlink and me twiddling the FLASH_OPTCR stuff, but openocd using the jlink as the debug interface I could *usually* unprotect
2019-05-02T23:07:58 < aandrew> power cycling, reflowing the STM32 and letting the board really soak to ensure proper melt didn't do much (sometimes it would re-protect a successfully unprotected part)
2019-05-02T23:09:34 < aandrew> if I could get the device unprotected I couldn't flash becuase of the issue mentioned above
2019-05-02T23:09:49 < aandrew> replacing the chip would *sometimes* fix it, but other times the new chip would do the same thing
2019-05-02T23:10:22 < aandrew> anyway -- STMicro suggested using STLinkv2 and their software. I was skeptical but tried it. one of the boards unlocked and programmed just fine 
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2019-05-02T23:10:46 < aandrew> the ohter was still problematic. left it alone (but powered) for about an hour and tried agin... it finally unprotected but same flash issue
2019-05-02T23:10:58 < aandrew> left it alone again and it flashed just fine, and all 4 boards work perfectly fine now
2019-05-02T23:11:04 < aandrew> weirdest thing I ever came across
2019-05-02T23:11:41 < aandrew> ST FAE suggested maybe power supply sequencing but my 1.2V rail comes from the 3.3V rail. I did try adding a slow RC to PA0 to try to reset the 1.2V domain well after the 3.3V rail was stable but that didn't change anything
2019-05-02T23:12:04 < aandrew> I was really surprised that the stlinkv2 and their software was able to unlock when openocd couldn't
2019-05-02T23:12:27 < aandrew> also a little surprised that jlinkexe and openocd had such different levels of success
2019-05-02T23:14:47 < PaulFertser> A really strange story indeed. I'm used to more determinism with digital ICs :)
2019-05-02T23:14:54 < aandrew> me too
2019-05-02T23:15:15 < aandrew> I'm 100% sure it's something to do with reflow and/or the 1.2V/3.3V supply sequencing
2019-05-02T23:15:29 < aandrew> but it's odd that it gets itself into that state but once you get it out of the state it operates perfectly fine from then on
2019-05-02T23:15:51 < PaulFertser> Have you 'scoped the 1.2V rail?
2019-05-02T23:17:13 < PaulFertser> Might be somehow related to the option bytes erase circuity.
2019-05-02T23:21:16 < catphish> Cracki: so it turns out syncing to the amiga sectors is a little easier than i expected, each sector begins with 32 bits of alternating ones and zeros (0x AAAA AAAA) which can be totally ignored, it's just for clock syncronization, then the important part, "standard sync byte", 0x 4489 4489 which actually marks the start of the sector, and allows us to sync to the start of the first byte that immediately follows it
2019-05-02T23:21:37 < PaulFertser> Or probably undervoltage or overvoltage somewhere?..
2019-05-02T23:22:05 < catphish> using a 32-bit register, it's trivial to sync to this 32-bit sync sequence, and since it's not valid data MFM, it is only found at the start of each sector :)
2019-05-02T23:24:15 < aandrew> PaulFertser: it's solid (it's an enpirion part from intel for the max10
2019-05-02T23:24:18 < aandrew> less than 10mV ripple
2019-05-02T23:24:47 < aandrew> but yeah it's something relating to the design/mistakes in the design
2019-05-02T23:25:00 < aandrew> my guess is reset around the 1.2V domain and sequencing with 3.3v since that's disabled on the part 
2019-05-02T23:26:55 < Cracki> nice, catphish 
2019-05-02T23:27:22 < catphish> i'm implementing it now, will upload the decoded image of that track once it works
2019-05-02T23:56:29 < jadew> I like these competitions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IngelKjmecg
--- Day changed Fri May 03 2019
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2019-05-03T00:01:14 < jadew> this one is better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atMkFBfvSNU
2019-05-03T00:08:23 < jadew> for a moment there I was thinking Japan would be nice place to live in
2019-05-03T00:08:32 < jadew> then I remembered about the earthquakes
2019-05-03T00:09:57 < Thorn> and heat, and weird workplace customs, and fukushima, and dongs
2019-05-03T00:10:42 < jadew> I don't mind any of that
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2019-05-03T00:13:13 < Steffanx> Except for tsunamis.. are the earth quakes an issue at all?
2019-05-03T00:13:35 < jadew> Steffanx, if you're living in a paper house, probably not
2019-05-03T00:13:37 < Steffanx> You've chance dying on the street in romania :P
2019-05-03T00:13:52 < Steffanx> More*
2019-05-03T00:14:16 < jadew> heh, romania is not that bad
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2019-05-03T00:27:34 < karlp> jadew: heh, while I too likked dvds for their write once appeal, they're simply way to small.  I stopped backing up to dvds maybe 10 years ago?
2019-05-03T00:27:49 < karlp> the flash cards in my camera were the same size as each "backup" diskkk
2019-05-03T00:28:17 < jadew> karlp, yeah, they're not great for pictures, but they're fine for code and other work related stuff
2019-05-03T00:28:27 < jadew> for pictures I'm currently relying on a RAID-1
2019-05-03T00:28:38 < jadew> but I don't like the fact that it can be messed with by a virus for example
2019-05-03T00:28:44 < jadew> (like those file encrypting viruses)
2019-05-03T00:29:20 < qyx> run a niche and hardly working OS
2019-05-03T00:29:30 < jadew> haha
2019-05-03T00:30:27 < Steffanx> Lunix?
2019-05-03T00:30:41 < qyx> haiku!
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2019-05-03T00:33:50 < karlp> man, lto drives are $$$$ or have archaic interfaces, fuck that.
2019-05-03T00:34:18 < karlp> used qic80 tapes for backups years back, but lto just looks way too expensive.
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2019-05-03T00:36:43 < karlp> (and qic80 was mariginal then, you had to be doing lots of backups)
2019-05-03T00:37:01 < karlp> jadew: re size, I have _zero_ desire to have separate media for different "tyupes" of backups.
2019-05-03T00:37:42 < karlp> I just use a couple of generations of harddrives and when I buy a new one, the oldest one gets retired out.
2019-05-03T00:37:53 < karlp> one local backup, one irregularly synced and taken offsite
2019-05-03T00:40:45 < karlp> I'd need a new mobo for LTO as well, they're all seem to be sas, (or a card sure)
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2019-05-03T00:42:56 < aandrew> yeah spinning media is cheap and fast and reliable enough that using DVD/bluray/tape doesn't make a lot of sense except in certain circumstances that most people don't have/need/use
2019-05-03T00:45:29 < jadew> another problem with HDDs is that you rely on them too much (for too many backups)
2019-05-03T00:45:53 < jadew> so if they break, they can set you back weeks or even months, depending on when the last backup was made
2019-05-03T00:46:03 < jadew> (last backup of the backup)
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2019-05-03T00:46:28 < jadew> so, in a sense, the small size of DVDs can also be an advantage
2019-05-03T00:46:29 < aandrew> that's all part of the strategy
2019-05-03T00:46:36 < aandrew> but the failure is the same with dvd or tape
2019-05-03T00:46:50 < jadew> aandrew, yeah, but you go through them faster
2019-05-03T00:47:20 < jadew> and the odds of breaking while still inside the PC are slim (I only use my drive for backups)
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2019-05-03T00:54:07 < karlp> how do you get setback weeks? you would need both the primary backup _and_ the actual primary source to both be broken at the same time?
2019-05-03T00:54:33 < jadew> karlp, that's true
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2019-05-03T00:54:40 < jadew> but it can happen
2019-05-03T00:54:59 < jadew> maybe not when the HDD breaks, but a virus could do that
2019-05-03T01:01:43 < specing> you need to have over a petabyte of data for tapes to break even with HDDs
2019-05-03T01:01:54 < specing> this excludes all home users
2019-05-03T01:02:57 < catphish> allpcb are being slow for a change, 24 hour production didn't even start until 36 hours after my order
2019-05-03T01:03:14 < catphish> still fast for an $8 PCB :)
2019-05-03T01:04:02 < catphish> maybe it was a chinaholiday
2019-05-03T01:04:14 < catphish> they always time their holidays when i want PCBs
2019-05-03T01:05:51 < Steffanx>  Same with jlcpcb
2019-05-03T01:06:36 < aandrew> honestly I just back up to s3 with duplicity
2019-05-03T01:06:39 < jadew> question, can you reliably print a 0.15 mm gap with a 3d printer?
2019-05-03T01:06:43 < catphish> oh it really is a china holiday,
2019-05-03T01:06:53 < aandrew> costs me like $9/mo and I could make that cheaper if I needed. 
2019-05-03T01:07:10 < aandrew> duplicity is amaze and doesn't rely on any one backend. could back up to several cloud services or to physical media
2019-05-03T01:07:24 < jadew> aandrew, I have online backup too, but only for code
2019-05-03T01:07:55 < aandrew> I only backup configs, databases, email and code
2019-05-03T01:08:01 < aandrew> well my Projects folder
2019-05-03T01:08:06 < aandrew> that's by far the biggest
2019-05-03T01:08:06 < catphish> jadew: i'd say yes to the 0.15mm gap, but there's an easy way to find out
2019-05-03T01:08:29 < jadew> catphish, yeah, I think I'll slice this and only print a section
2019-05-03T01:09:00 < aandrew> I use syncthing to live-sync the projects folder across laptop, desktop, local server (with 5 levels of changes) and remote server
2019-05-03T01:09:15 < aandrew> then that is backed up to s3 with duplicity along with databases and system configs and email
2019-05-03T01:09:44 < aandrew> projects folder is 50G but there's a lot that can be cleaned out of there. I think I have a few arm toolchains hiding in there :-/
2019-05-03T01:09:44 < karlp> yah, I priced s3, but for photo backups it was too expensive.
2019-05-03T01:10:33 < karlp> wsa very attractive though :)
2019-05-03T01:10:49 < aandrew> karlp: maybe glacier? it's a hell of a lot cheaper
2019-05-03T01:11:03 < aandrew> photos don't compress though so yeah that'd be pricey
2019-05-03T01:11:13 < karlp> also, photos folder is currently ~800G.
2019-05-03T01:11:23 < karlp> thankfully, I've dramatically slowed down.
2019-05-03T01:11:33 < jadew> you switched burst mode off?
2019-05-03T01:11:50 < karlp> no, started having more people locally and less people remote that the pictures were for.
2019-05-03T01:12:06 < karlp> also, my publishing process wasn't fast enough.
2019-05-03T01:13:31 < aandrew>  jadew> you switched burst mode off?
2019-05-03T01:13:32 < aandrew> lol
2019-05-03T01:13:42 < karlp> (which dragged motivation down, which became a bitter circle)
2019-05-03T01:13:47 < karlp> yeah, that ws chuckle worthy :)
2019-05-03T01:15:07 < karlp> 2010 was 94gig alone :)
2019-05-03T01:15:24 < karlp> last year was only 8G,
2019-05-03T01:15:46 < karlp> (but that doens'ðt include the phone camera, which has replaced a lot of it, and is backedup elsewhere.... for... (not good) reasons)
2019-05-03T01:17:44 < jadew> yeah, we've switched to using our phones for photos too and I think they generate smaller files
2019-05-03T01:17:53 < jadew> I have to check tho
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2019-05-03T01:18:38 < jadew> 3-4 Mb per photo
2019-05-03T01:18:55 < jadew> that's not really small
2019-05-03T01:21:00 < jadew> half what my camera generates
2019-05-03T01:21:15 < jadew> and 10 times less quality
2019-05-03T01:24:19 < karlp> IU used to carry an slr daily, and use it for all sorts of even just generic snapping.
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2019-05-03T01:31:41 < jadew> my .15 mm gap came out fused
2019-05-03T01:32:02 < catphish> jadew: lame :(
2019-05-03T01:32:27 < aandrew>  hm. 5k 0 ohm 0603 jumpers for CAD$15... apparently good for a half Ampere each
2019-05-03T01:32:30 < aandrew> not bad
2019-05-03T01:32:30 < jadew> 0.75mm walls are 1mm so maybe that's why
2019-05-03T01:33:39 < jadew> aandrew, so they're more like 0.5 Ohm? :P
2019-05-03T01:34:03 < aandrew> depends on how much current you put through them :-)
2019-05-03T01:34:18 < aandrew> but yeah I buy full reels of stuff now when the price gets reasonable
2019-05-03T01:34:34 < jadew> think you'll ever use them?
2019-05-03T01:34:42 < jadew> *use them all
2019-05-03T01:34:44 < aandrew> I need a dozen of them, so yeah. :-)
2019-05-03T01:34:55 < aandrew> all? well I can use them for years to come, but we'll see
2019-05-03T01:35:13 < aandrew> I have quite an extensive collection of parts, it's kind of surprising when I have to hunt for something
2019-05-03T01:35:42 < aandrew> I do try to keep to a "core" set of parts, particuarly passives 
2019-05-03T01:36:15 < aandrew> but switching regulators, opamps, eeproms that kind of thing too
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2019-05-03T03:11:01 < rajkosto> has anyone bothered gamma correcting RGB leds ?
2019-05-03T04:09:27 < englishman> yes
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2019-05-03T04:31:59 < rajkosto> how do
2019-05-03T04:42:35 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-03_03-42-22_euIVspOyr.jpg it just cant figure out green on its own, must be unnatural
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2019-05-03T04:59:28 < bitmask> grrr uber eats
2019-05-03T05:00:05 < bitmask> wasted an hour on one stupid delivery that the navigation fucked up and only got $11
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2019-05-03T05:04:08 < mawk> they gave me $2 last time they fucked up
2019-05-03T05:04:10 < mawk> you're lucky
2019-05-03T05:27:43 < jadew> $11 for one delivery?
2019-05-03T05:27:51 < jadew> how many deliveries can you make a day?
2019-05-03T05:28:19 < jadew> it sounds like you can make a decent living
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2019-05-03T05:38:49 < englishman> wut, where does delivery cost $11
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2019-05-03T05:45:14 < bitmask> it was $11 cause it was 20 minutes away, dunno why the guy wanted chinese food from 20 min away...
2019-05-03T05:45:36 < bitmask> its usually 5-7 a delivery and then sometimes you get a tip
2019-05-03T05:46:12 < bitmask> I average about $12-14 an hour
2019-05-03T05:48:07 < bitmask> but I only go out at busy times
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2019-05-03T09:14:31 < Thorn> T - 1h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKoGHJppW7c
2019-05-03T09:19:12 < Cracki> guys, got an atmel sam3x (3.3v, arduino due), with an output that goes to a slave device which has a pullup to 5v. current to ground is 114 uA. can that affect the sam3x's output when it's in push-pull?
2019-05-03T09:19:43 < Cracki> current is rather low but I have no idea if the mere voltage affects it in some negative way.
2019-05-03T09:20:22 < Cracki> we'll definitely try setting it to open drain, which I expect should be more sensible
2019-05-03T09:23:11 < Rajko> oh no im blind now https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-03_08-02-24_nyWd9g37r.jpg
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2019-05-03T09:52:00 < Cracki> space muzak!
2019-05-03T09:53:33 < Cracki> they need to temporally resample that clip. it's not 30 fps like the stream is
2019-05-03T09:53:43 < Thorn> Cracki: 114µA is the current through the pullup?
2019-05-03T09:53:47 < Cracki> yes
2019-05-03T09:53:58 < Cracki> 114 ua to gnd, 36 ua to 3.3v (from 5v)
2019-05-03T09:54:37 < Cracki> that indicates around 45k
2019-05-03T09:55:43 < Cracki> stream is live!
2019-05-03T09:56:02 < Cracki> 16 minutes left
2019-05-03T09:59:38 < Cracki> aborted
2019-05-03T09:59:56 < Cracki> "24 h recycle"
2019-05-03T10:00:44 < Cracki> "unable to maintain power"
2019-05-03T10:02:49 < Cracki> ah, the drone ship has issues
2019-05-03T10:03:06 < Cracki> so they postpone to salvage the first stage
2019-05-03T10:08:06 < Thorn> they also said something about a helium leak
2019-05-03T10:08:12 < Thorn> is there helium on the barge
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2019-05-03T10:22:39 < Cracki> they did? sounds weird
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2019-05-03T12:10:12 < karlp> Cracki: perhaps try #arduino? ;)
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2019-05-03T12:33:14 < jadew> Cracki, shouldn't affect it
2019-05-03T12:33:27 < Cracki> excellent
2019-05-03T12:33:59 < Cracki> my bet is the customer's just being dumb but you can't just go like "ur dumb give it and let me have a look"
2019-05-03T12:34:15 < Cracki> so... turn over every stone on our end
2019-05-03T12:34:22 < jadew> if you have a high enough resistance in series, you can hook up a MCU to the mains and it'll be fine
2019-05-03T12:35:30 < Cracki> that was my (untested) intuition/model but I always suspect it's not accurate enough
2019-05-03T12:36:48 < karlp> jadew: that's.... not really the point.
2019-05-03T12:36:59 < karlp> cracki has 5v on the pin, is it 5V tolerant or not?
2019-05-03T12:37:22 < karlp> if you drop all the mains voltage from 110/240/over9000, you still need to meet the voltage tolerance on the inputs.
2019-05-03T12:37:31 < jadew> it only needs to be 5v tolerant if you're not limiting the current
2019-05-03T12:38:00 < karlp> to a point yes.
2019-05-03T12:38:09 < jadew> if the current is so small, it doesn't matter, worst case scenario it leaks through the protection diodes
2019-05-03T12:42:53 < Cracki> at this point I'd have to look up (again) how these GPIOs are specified... can't just assume protection diodes :>
2019-05-03T12:44:02 < karlp> you're still xy probleming,
2019-05-03T12:44:10 < karlp> haven't even said what the actual problem is.
2019-05-03T12:45:09 < qyx> heh, zero crossing detection made easy (tm), connect 230Vac to a internal comparator input
2019-05-03T12:45:22 < Cracki> I remember seeing circuits for that
2019-05-03T12:45:52 < Cracki> the most important thing they had to deal with was the size of the resistor bodies because voltage might just jump over
2019-05-03T12:46:43 < qyx> 0201 not suitable? :(
2019-05-03T12:47:37 < Cracki> afraid not. they had THTs and iirc they needed to use a few in series because a single one didn't give enough distance
2019-05-03T12:48:01 < jadew> Cracki, it's pretty safe to assume protection diodes
2019-05-03T12:48:16 < jadew> it's what gives them the +- 0.5 input tollerance
2019-05-03T12:48:23 < Cracki> I also have some vague recollection of inrush current but that was probably the thing where someone wanted to drive a bunch of LEDs from mains
2019-05-03T12:48:28 < Cracki> ic
2019-05-03T12:48:37 < karlp> qyx: still have the same issues with harmonics and noise :)
2019-05-03T12:48:38 < jadew> if you go above that, you end up powering the circuit, through the input pin
2019-05-03T12:49:14 < karlp> atmel reference design uses 7 0603 in series I think, we use 2 x 1206 in series, from a spears high votlage rated series.
2019-05-03T12:50:51 < jadew> for 0 crossing detection?
2019-05-03T12:51:18 < qyx> karlp: you mean the ZC not occuring at the right time because of waveform distortion?
2019-05-03T12:52:16 < qyx> hm, or multiple times actually
2019-05-03T12:53:29 < jadew> Cracki, for mains, using several THTs in series seems overly excessive
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2019-05-03T12:55:26 < jadew> just checked and the arcing distance at 3xx is less than 0.2 mm
2019-05-03T12:55:34 < jadew> 3xx V
2019-05-03T12:55:56 < jadew> can you have high voltage spikes on mains?
2019-05-03T12:57:02 < Cracki> probably. any inductive loads...
2019-05-03T12:57:22 < jadew> that's true
2019-05-03T12:57:26 < Cracki> often when I switch my lab psu on I can hear it on my headphones
2019-05-03T12:58:07 < karlp> qyx: indeed.
2019-05-03T12:58:33 < karlp> jadew: um, yeah, you need to deal with way more than 3xx :)
2019-05-03T12:59:00 < jadew> yeah, didn't consider the loads
2019-05-03T12:59:22 < karlp> even if you don't think you do, it doesn't matter, because getting it certified will require more anyway
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2019-05-03T13:06:46 < jadew> is it just me or is second hand test equipment a lot more expensive these days
2019-05-03T13:07:08 < jadew> hmm, maybe not all of it
2019-05-03T13:07:47 < jadew> I bought some mechanical attenuators a couple of years ago for ~60 for 3 of them
2019-05-03T13:08:16 < jadew> can't get my hands on one for less than $100 now
2019-05-03T13:12:51 < jadew> someone said allpcb has free shipping?
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2019-05-03T13:26:32 < Cracki> more people want test equipment, more people know it can be had second hand :P
2019-05-03T13:26:36 < Cracki> someone indeed said that
2019-05-03T13:27:29 < Cracki> the catfish, 2 days ago
2019-05-03T13:27:46 < jly> ahhh
2019-05-03T13:28:05 < Cracki> earliest mention feb 27
2019-05-03T13:28:13 < Cracki> 2018 :>
2019-05-03T13:28:37 < jly> ?
2019-05-03T13:28:49 < Cracki> allpcb free shipping, apparently via hk post
2019-05-03T13:29:16 < jly> hk post? is that via carrier pigeon
2019-05-03T13:29:41 < Cracki> soemthing liek that
2019-05-03T13:30:03 < jly> well that's no good
2019-05-03T13:30:21 < catphish> i didn't say they have free shipping
2019-05-03T13:30:27 < Cracki> wat
2019-05-03T13:30:32 < Cracki> the grep is a lie
2019-05-03T13:30:41 < catphish> i said they have free boards, then realised you have to pay shipping
2019-05-03T13:31:00 < Cracki> "basically free right now"
2019-05-03T13:31:14 < Cracki> and $19 dhl shitting
2019-05-03T13:31:19 < jly> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Keysight-Agilent-DSOX3034T-Oscilloscope-4-channel-350-MHz/323672113115
2019-05-03T13:31:22 < jly> is that alright
2019-05-03T13:31:28 < catphish> yeah, i was looking at a quote without shipping, then realised $19 shipping had to be added
2019-05-03T13:31:38 < Cracki> for 2 bucks of pcbs :P
2019-05-03T13:31:46 < Cracki> which is why I think the free pigeon shit is good
2019-05-03T13:32:03 < Cracki> I think my boss has that keysight
2019-05-03T13:32:10 < Cracki> probably the exact same model
2019-05-03T13:32:23 < Cracki> I doubt he paid 12k for it
2019-05-03T13:33:12 < jly> yeah'
2019-05-03T13:33:54 < catphish> allpcb minimum cost (without new custmer offer) seems to be $17
2019-05-03T13:34:01 < catphish> so probably not the cheapest if you're happy to wait
2019-05-03T13:35:06 < Cracki> unless that scope is tricked out, it's not worth 12k. farnell sells the model for 3400 bongmoneys
2019-05-03T13:35:06 < jly> Cracki: is Laurence dead?
2019-05-03T13:35:16 < Cracki> nah, just dumps his links elsewhere
2019-05-03T13:37:04 < Cracki> tempted to make a 1-buck offer on that scope
2019-05-03T13:56:13 < specing> jadew: yeah, I've been looking at DS1054Z on ebay and I saw some go for 350 eur.... thats 30 eur below brand new price...
2019-05-03T14:01:54 < jly> yep
2019-05-03T14:02:06 < jly> amazing isn't it
2019-05-03T14:02:16 < specing> Cracki: make 2 bucks offer not to insult too much :)
2019-05-03T14:02:32 < jly> a scope i got for $200
2019-05-03T14:02:36 < jly> now sells for over $1000 
2019-05-03T14:02:41 < jly> ebay \o/
2019-05-03T14:04:42 < specing> :)
2019-05-03T14:05:00 < specing> I'm thinking of just buying a brand new ds1054z
2019-05-03T14:05:18 < jly> yeah just do that
2019-05-03T14:05:27 < specing> though I saw a 100MHz 4-chan siglent for 512
2019-05-03T14:05:28 < jly> time is money
2019-05-03T14:05:34 < specing> that has twice the specs, basically
2019-05-03T14:05:42 < specing> could be unlocked to 200 MHz, maybe
2019-05-03T14:05:50 < jly> get whatever you need
2019-05-03T14:06:21 < specing> well,.... technically I don't need it  right now
2019-05-03T14:06:30 < jly> what do you need to do ?
2019-05-03T14:06:38 < specing> nothing, Im no EE
2019-05-03T14:06:48 < jly> don't have to be an EE
2019-05-03T14:07:05 < jly> maybe you like to do stuff with electronics
2019-05-03T14:07:32 < specing> What I've always wanted is a PCI-e scope, so it could be compact and use vast cheap storage on a PC
2019-05-03T14:08:59 < jly> maybe a data logger would suffice, really depends.... . ..
2019-05-03T14:09:36 < specing> I have a FX2LP from china.
2019-05-03T14:10:04 < specing> $2 is a no-brainer, but 400 ...
2019-05-03T14:11:15 < jly> if you have a good idea of what you actually want to do, someone here likely can point you in the right direction
2019-05-03T14:11:46 < jadew> yeah, scopes are expensive still
2019-05-03T14:12:03 < jly> post eevblog days
2019-05-03T14:12:19 < jadew> chinese ones especially
2019-05-03T14:14:34 < jadew> I think they were ruined by youtubers
2019-05-03T14:14:54 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/n2b0gAb8/lol.png
2019-05-03T14:15:07 < jly> recon that's my retirement fund?
2019-05-03T14:15:39 < jadew> only if you hold on to it for a couple more years
2019-05-03T14:15:44 < jadew> is that what you're using?
2019-05-03T14:16:26 < jly> no but seriously I could get away with using that.
2019-05-03T14:16:51 < jadew> don't you rely on FFT for audio stuff?
2019-05-03T14:17:05 < jly> AP rig does all that
2019-05-03T14:17:15 < jly> and the NTI flexus 100
2019-05-03T14:18:29 < jly> however those instruments are in audio land
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2019-05-03T14:26:52 < Thorn> ds1054z has been around for many years and it's still the best deal in its price range?
2019-05-03T14:27:08 < Thorn> where are the innovations
2019-05-03T14:28:21 < jly> maybe they've moved past an oscilloscope
2019-05-03T14:29:02 < zyp> Thorn, isn't mso5000 the hot shit now?
2019-05-03T14:29:30 < zyp> or is that a different price range?
2019-05-03T14:29:58 < jly> is that the upgradable to daylight one?
2019-05-03T14:30:14 < jly> eg buy a 20mhz one, you can software upgrade to 2ghz?
2019-05-03T14:30:29 < zyp> isn't that every rigol?
2019-05-03T14:30:42 < jly> not me good ole ds1052e sir
2019-05-03T14:30:55 < zyp> uh
2019-05-03T14:31:44 < karlp> 1052e was the _first_ ones taht you could do that too,
2019-05-03T14:31:49 < karlp> turn them to the 1100e.
2019-05-03T14:31:52 < karlp> (iirc)
2019-05-03T14:32:00 < karlp> z series was much later.
2019-05-03T14:32:02 < jly> not 'legitimately' 
2019-05-03T14:32:26 < karlp> it's never legitimate, you dont'ge ttot download a new sticker for the front plate
2019-05-03T14:32:48 < jly> heh
2019-05-03T14:32:52 < zyp> karlp, no
2019-05-03T14:33:00 < jly> maybe they can send me stickers
2019-05-03T14:33:02 < jly> i like stickers
2019-05-03T14:33:20 < zyp> I have the generation before 1052e, and I've unlocked mine too
2019-05-03T14:33:28 < Thorn> zyp: I guess no it's not the same price range, mso5000 seems to be 2x the price for the cheapest model
2019-05-03T14:33:28 < zyp> found out last year it was possible
2019-05-03T14:34:31 < karlp> zyp: what model was yours?
2019-05-03T14:34:37 < zyp> 1042c IIRC
2019-05-03T14:34:51 < zyp> yeah
2019-05-03T14:35:01 < karlp> B/D?
2019-05-03T14:35:07 < zyp> no
2019-05-03T14:35:31 < zyp> I bought it 11 years ago, so it's pretty old now :)
2019-05-03T14:35:39 < karlp> weren't the B/C/D/E all just minor analog changes from 30/60 to 50/100 and whether it had the LA version or not?
2019-05-03T14:35:51 < karlp> the 30Mhz could be turned into the 60 with hacks then?
2019-05-03T14:36:00 < karlp> before the 50 could be turned into the 100?
2019-05-03T14:36:09 < karlp> the z is a whole new scope though
2019-05-03T14:36:14 < zyp> dunno, but I turned mine into a 100
2019-05-03T14:36:44 < zyp> didn't even have to change firmware, just pushed some buttons and got into a hidden service menu that had a selection box for model
2019-05-03T14:37:49 < zyp> http://codenaschen.de/tichyblog/index.php?action=blog&entry=17_Hacking%20Rigol%20DS1022C%20DS1042C%20DS1062C%20DS1102C
2019-05-03T14:39:13 < karlp> groovy. we had the 100Mhz with LA version at work
2019-05-03T14:40:28 < zyp> this is what I used to look at ethernet signals last year
2019-05-03T14:40:30 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/uqm0t.jpg
2019-05-03T14:41:07 < zyp> even changed to DS1102C it's a bit underspecced to look at that, but it helped me find the issue :)
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2019-05-03T15:51:12 < Cracki> oh, the chinese made a successor to that dso203 "mp4 player" scope (8 MHz, 72 MS/s), called dso213 (15 MHz, 100 MS/s)
2019-05-03T15:54:40 < specing> Cracki: why is the frequency rating so arbitrary? I'd expect it to be 1/2 the sampling rate...
2019-05-03T15:56:09 < Thorn> they probably cannot into fast frontends
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2019-05-03T16:01:43 < Cracki> here's the schematic for an older version of the 203: http://www.wide.hk/pdf/DS203V2.6_SCH.pdf
2019-05-03T16:01:57 < Cracki> 2.81/2.82 was current around last year
2019-05-03T16:02:19 < Cracki> top left, ain/bin
2019-05-03T16:03:50 < englishman> hello innovators
2019-05-03T16:03:55 < englishman> specing: great scope
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2019-05-03T16:23:46 < karlp> heh, spam email from sales42@diodes.com, advertising prices of diodes and stuff.
2019-05-03T16:23:59 < karlp> website in the email is topdiode.com.  not quite the same
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2019-05-03T16:49:24 < jadew> you know why it's sales42 now :)
2019-05-03T16:51:28 < jadew> any good horror movies?
2019-05-03T16:56:22 < Steffanx> Alien
2019-05-03T16:56:37 < jadew> from this millennium
2019-05-03T16:56:59 -!- sk_tandt [~sk_tandt@net-5-88-141-17.cust.vodafonedsl.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2019-05-03T16:59:16 < jadew> started watching a horror show now
2019-05-03T16:59:33 < jadew> almost started with some boob action, but there was none
2019-05-03T16:59:46 < jadew> so... not sure how good it's going to be
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2019-05-03T17:03:05  * karlp smiles
2019-05-03T17:03:33 < karlp> I love when some feature I worked on in the past, that never really got used gets to wakeup and go, "here I am, I work, I'm going to solve you rproblems for you right now"
2019-05-03T17:16:40 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
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2019-05-03T18:12:55 < Rajko> why this mosfet ded
2019-05-03T18:20:48 < zyp> why not?
2019-05-03T18:21:08 < Rajko> its only one out of 4
2019-05-03T18:21:17 < Rajko> nothing that should have made it ded
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2019-05-03T18:41:13 < Rajko> oh i killed another one by touching it cuz the gate was floating
2019-05-03T18:42:51 < Rajko> i conduct 50hz AC via my fingor
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2019-05-03T18:55:56 < leachim6> hi o/
2019-05-03T18:56:01 < leachim6> just ordered a bunch of these on a lark https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stm8l050j3.pdf
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2019-05-03T18:56:09 < leachim6> anyone have experience with them? (they're pretty new)
2019-05-03T18:56:52 < karlp> stm8 isn't really all that new.
2019-05-03T18:57:01 < karlp> do you have a more particular question?
2019-05-03T18:57:20 < leachim6> nope, not really, just trying to get started with it, not really sure where to start
2019-05-03T18:57:34 < leachim6> reading up on the DS right now
2019-05-03T18:59:23 < karlp> sdcc can target it I believe, and iirc, openocd can flash/debug them.
2019-05-03T18:59:45 < leachim6> is there an official IDE?
2019-05-03T18:59:49 < leachim6> the product page has a lot of options
2019-05-03T18:59:54 < karlp> read st's website.
2019-05-03T19:01:00 < leachim6> that's not very specific...
2019-05-03T19:01:02 < leachim6> https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm8l050j3.html#tools-software
2019-05-03T19:03:41 < karlp> if ST doesn't say there's an official one, you were hoping some random interent people could declare one to be official? :)
2019-05-03T19:03:52 < leachim6> I figured it was user error on my part
2019-05-03T19:04:00 < leachim6> I usually assume that and I'm usually correct :D
2019-05-03T19:07:04 < leachim6> found it :D
2019-05-03T19:07:06 < leachim6> https://my.st.com/content/my_st_com/en/products/development-tools/software-development-tools/stm8-software-development-tools/stm8-programmers/stvd-stm8.license=1556878408131.product=STVD-STM8.version=42.0.0.html
2019-05-03T19:07:20 < leachim6> anyhow, thanks karlp 
2019-05-03T19:10:13 < englishman> stm8 is awesome
2019-05-03T19:10:36 < englishman> STVD + an stlink with the free Cosmic Compiler is what I use
2019-05-03T19:10:51 < leachim6> thanks englishman I just downloaded stvd
2019-05-03T19:11:03 < leachim6> the sheer amount of peripherals on this 65cent MCU boggles my mind
2019-05-03T19:11:10 < leachim6> I didn't even realize it had an RTC when I bought it
2019-05-03T19:11:19 < englishman> there's a stdperiphlib- style library
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2019-05-03T19:11:27 < englishman> or you can twiddle registers
2019-05-03T19:11:34 < englishman> yeah it's amazing
2019-05-03T19:11:44 < leachim6> I'm used to register twiddling from AVR, but I'm still a real beginner either way
2019-05-03T19:12:06 < leachim6> do you use the official stlink or the china one?
2019-05-03T19:12:14 < englishman> I used one to make an electric arc cigarette lighter into a dual voice midi player with nyancat installed
2019-05-03T19:12:18 < englishman> official
2019-05-03T19:12:30 < leachim6> if I have problems with the clone I'll get the real one, it's only like 20 bucks...
2019-05-03T19:12:38 < zyp> leachim6, fun fact: you can get stm32 for less than 65c
2019-05-03T19:12:41 < leachim6> works fine for stm32, never tried it w/ the 8
2019-05-03T19:12:55 < zyp> e.g. https://lcsc.com/product-detail/ST-Microelectronics_STMicroelectronics_STM32F030F4P6_STM32F030F4P6_C32908.html
2019-05-03T19:12:56 < englishman> it's not swd but instead the other swim port
2019-05-03T19:13:04 < leachim6> zyp: I have a bunch of the blue pill boards, aka, the leaflabs maple mini clone, aka STM32F103C8T6
2019-05-03T19:13:24 < leachim6> yeah I made up a cable for it :)
2019-05-03T19:13:34 < leachim6> just gotta switch from the bottom pins to the top, hoping it matches, we shall see
2019-05-03T19:13:58 < leachim6> RST SWIM GND 3v3
2019-05-03T19:14:00 < leachim6> looks good
2019-05-03T19:14:05 < englishman> ya
2019-05-03T19:14:34 < leachim6> but yeah, compared to AVR/PIC offering for 8-bit MCUs, the bang for the buck on this thing is insane, we'll just see if I can actually program it
2019-05-03T19:15:22 < englishman> yeah the onchip debugging alone reAlly speeds things up
2019-05-03T19:15:32 < englishman> then you get to use all the nice periphs
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2019-05-03T19:15:56 < leachim6> I randomly bought 10 of these from arrow for like $6 because I had a random thought "I wonder if stmicro makes an 8 pin mcu"
2019-05-03T19:15:58 < leachim6> turns out, yep!
2019-05-03T19:16:11 < leachim6> I have some STM8S in SOP-14
2019-05-03T19:16:32 < englishman> I like the qfn20 3x3
2019-05-03T19:16:44 < leachim6> do you have a breakout board?
2019-05-03T19:17:10 < englishman> no, I just put them on the protos directly
2019-05-03T19:17:41 < karlp> https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/stm8-so8-disco.html  try them all!
2019-05-03T19:17:55 < karlp> they're 65c, why are yuou trying to save them for breakouts? :)
2019-05-03T19:18:05 < englishman> lol that's cool
2019-05-03T19:19:43 < leachim6> this is very cool
2019-05-03T19:20:50 < leachim6> they're about $15USD https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM8-SO8-DISCO?qs=wUXugUrL1qzC49dLu9fF8A%3D%3D
2019-05-03T19:21:45 < leachim6> although it's kind of scary that they let you freely use the SWIM pin and you can brick the chip if you aren't careful
2019-05-03T19:21:53 < leachim6> over in atmel land you can always recover with a high voltage programmer
2019-05-03T19:21:55 < karlp> again, it's 65c
2019-05-03T19:22:15 < leachim6> still!
2019-05-03T19:22:18 < karlp> and only if you fuck things up,
2019-05-03T19:22:25 < karlp> it's not like they lay traps all over the place foryou
2019-05-03T19:22:30 < karlp> "harhahraarr we'll make them buy more!"
2019-05-03T19:22:38 < leachim6> yeah I just wish there was a way to recover it if you bork SWIM
2019-05-03T19:22:58 < zyp> don't you have to pull the chip out of the circuit to use a high voltage programmer? at that point you might as well throw it away and put in a new one anyway
2019-05-03T19:23:05 < englishman> how can you brick it? does it have protection like stm32
2019-05-03T19:23:23 < zyp> remapping it to something else, I assume?
2019-05-03T19:23:33 < zyp> stm32 lets you do that too, but you can recover by reset
2019-05-03T19:23:37 < leachim6> it looks like it has a hardcoded bootloader that you may be able to use for recovery
2019-05-03T19:23:43 < englishman> then just connect under reset? does that not work on stm8?
2019-05-03T19:23:47 < leachim6> not sure if that's inside user writable memory
2019-05-03T19:24:02 < leachim6> I'm a super noob, if it wasn't evident
2019-05-03T19:24:04 < leachim6> learning as I go
2019-05-03T19:25:47 < englishman> same
2019-05-03T19:26:47 < zyp> I don't get why people wanna learn a new 8-bit arch in 2019 :)
2019-05-03T19:27:21  * karlp either.
2019-05-03T19:27:45 < zyp> I mean, cute chips and all that, I just fail to see the point
2019-05-03T19:29:50 < jpa-> but STM8 is an old 8-bit arch, not new!
2019-05-03T19:29:53 < karlp> then there's this sort of stuff that still sells too: https://www.tindie.com/products/evoinmotion/mego-4-24v-portable-power-supply/
2019-05-03T19:29:53 < zyp> next arch I learn is probably gonna be risc-v
2019-05-03T19:30:09  * karlp only bothers learning periphs, not ISAs
2019-05-03T19:30:19 < karlp> ~ish
2019-05-03T19:32:05 < leachim6> meh I was just curious
2019-05-03T19:32:07 < leachim6> it's a hobby
2019-05-03T19:32:12 < leachim6> I'm a sysadmin not an embedded eng
2019-05-03T19:32:13 < zyp> periphs are more a vendor thing than a cpu architecture thing
2019-05-03T19:33:27 < karlp> indeed.
2019-05-03T19:33:54 < zyp> ISA is not that important, it's fairly self-explaining when reading disassembly, ABI is more useful to know
2019-05-03T19:34:07 < zyp> i.e. what registers you've got and how they are used
2019-05-03T19:34:20 < leachim6> hmm
2019-05-03T19:34:22 < englishman> why do anything ever
2019-05-03T19:34:25 < leachim6> so this 8 pin chip doesn't have a reset line
2019-05-03T19:34:30 < leachim6> so I have to do some finagling
2019-05-03T19:34:34 < zyp> so you can tell where the fuck is going on when debugging :)
2019-05-03T19:35:03 < zyp> leachim6, oh, you should talk to kakimir, he should be an expert on not having a reset line by now
2019-05-03T19:36:26 < zyp> so anyway
2019-05-03T19:37:12 < zyp> since we're talking about architectures, have you guys seen that crazy mcu that contains two arm cores and two risc-v cores?
2019-05-03T19:37:24 < zyp> https://www.cnx-software.com/2019/02/05/openisa-vegaboard-risc-v-arm-cortex-m-cores/
2019-05-03T19:39:17 < zyp> I'm gonna pick up one of those boards just for the fun of it, seems kinda crazy
2019-05-03T19:40:35 < zyp> I suspect maybe the point of it is to aid porting shit, since the cores are paired up, one arm and one risc-v
2019-05-03T19:40:49 < zyp> so you can build the code for either and have it run the same with the same periphs
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2019-05-03T19:43:11 < zyp> also, having another radio mcu could be useful too, when at some point I start making progress on my radio stack
2019-05-03T19:48:02 < qyx> it seems everybody here is doing a radio stack
2019-05-03T19:48:26 < zyp> who else?
2019-05-03T19:48:36 < qyx> thorn for example
2019-05-03T19:48:42 < qyx> me
2019-05-03T19:48:55 < zyp> what protocol are you doing?
2019-05-03T19:49:36 < qyx> related, recently I found a way to hide all deterministic things in the packet except the 010101.. preample
2019-05-03T19:50:58 < qyx> tdma/fhss with distributed slot allocation
2019-05-03T19:51:10 < zyp> ah, you were dicking around with that lora transceiver?
2019-05-03T19:51:21 < qyx> that was englishman 
2019-05-03T19:51:31 < qyx> also Thorn 
2019-05-03T19:52:19 < leachim6> I can't get STVP to connect to this thing
2019-05-03T19:52:21 < leachim6> boo
2019-05-03T19:52:57 < qyx> I would say the thing is broken, isn't it?
2019-05-03T19:53:13 < leachim6> which thing, the MCU?
2019-05-03T19:53:22 < leachim6> I'm probably reading the flashing procedure wrong in the DS
2019-05-03T19:53:28 < leachim6> I'm just trying to read the chip in STVP
2019-05-03T19:53:37 < leachim6> it keeps telling me to hold reset low...but this chip has no reset so *shrug*
2019-05-03T19:53:37 < qyx> sorry, just trolling
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2019-05-03T20:25:00 < leachim6> Datasheet: "The decoupling capacitor should be positioned as closely as possibly to the IC"
2019-05-03T20:25:04 < leachim6> Me: I gotchu fam https://imgur.com/LnRnuvn
2019-05-03T20:27:51 < Cracki> looks a liiittle lopsided
2019-05-03T20:28:03 < karlp> miles away
2019-05-03T20:28:21 < Cracki> have fun with it. I'm curious to hear your journey
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2019-05-03T20:38:26 < leachim6> holy crap
2019-05-03T20:38:28 < leachim6> I got it to work
2019-05-03T20:38:34 < leachim6> turns out it was my sketchy programming cable
2019-05-03T20:40:41 < Cracki> how _do_ you program it? an stlink has SWIM, so it should be enough
2019-05-03T20:41:02 < leachim6> yeah, it wasn't getting power properly, meter only had it at 0.5v for some reason
2019-05-03T20:41:08 < leachim6> probably my janky dupont wire setup
2019-05-03T20:41:15 < leachim6> I also ruled out my shady chinese SOP8 socket
2019-05-03T20:41:23 < leachim6> hence soldering it to a breakout
2019-05-03T20:41:49 < leachim6> I successfully programmed a bit into the eeprom :D
2019-05-03T20:41:51 < leachim6> so that's something
2019-05-03T20:41:57 < leachim6> STVP doesn't really have a text editor....
2019-05-03T20:41:57 < Cracki> ah, stvp is "visual programmer"
2019-05-03T20:42:23 < leachim6> it allegedly comes with cosmic C, but I can't really see a way to enter C code, it's just direct hex
2019-05-03T20:42:41 < Cracki> just grab the "new" stm32cubeIDE
2019-05-03T20:42:47 < leachim6> does that do stm8 ?
2019-05-03T20:43:12 < Thorn> template<typename T1, typename T2> auto max (T1 a, T2 b) -> decltype(b<a?a:b) { return b < a ? a : b; }
2019-05-03T20:43:24 < Thorn> do you love c++ as much as I love it?
2019-05-03T20:43:25 < Cracki> I would sure expect it to, its purpose is to talk to stlink
2019-05-03T20:43:38 < Cracki> nice expression, thorn
2019-05-03T20:43:43 < leachim6> well I managed to talk to the chip, so that makes me happy
2019-05-03T20:44:03 < leachim6> thanks for your help folks, these little chips are insanely powerful, I'm excited to work on some projects :D
2019-05-03T20:44:21 < leachim6> I can't write code to save my life, so here's to practicing in one of the hardest ways possible :D
2019-05-03T20:44:23 < Cracki> the type of ?: should be the promotion of the then-type and else-type, right?
2019-05-03T20:44:36 < Thorn> pretty much
2019-05-03T20:44:38 < Cracki> leachim6, look for "blinky" and maybe "bare metal"
2019-05-03T20:44:53 < leachim6> blinky is step1, I have done a *little* bit of AVR
2019-05-03T20:45:07 < leachim6> if I can twiddle a register the world (MCU) is my oyster!
2019-05-03T20:45:11 < leachim6> :D 
2019-05-03T20:45:15 < Cracki> stm8 is very similar
2019-05-03T20:45:21 < leachim6> I'll try it with cubemx later, thanks for all you folks' help :)
2019-05-03T20:45:30 < Cracki> it's about halfway between avr and stm32 in terms of register names for GPIO
2019-05-03T20:45:46 < leachim6> yeah the comparators and timers seem very familiar to me
2019-05-03T20:45:52 < Cracki> they call everything "stm32cube". mx is the configurator and project generation thingy.
2019-05-03T20:46:10 < leachim6> ok cool, it *is* listed on the software page for this MCU, I just checked
2019-05-03T20:46:13 < Cracki> ide is their rebrand of truestudio, which is a rebrand of eclipse and addons.
2019-05-03T20:46:24 < leachim6> I went on this crusade in the first place because arduino IDE is just god awful
2019-05-03T20:46:26 < Cracki> stm32cubeAI is a thing too... you can guess what AI means
2019-05-03T20:46:31 < Thorn> stm32 tools will not help with stm8 at all
2019-05-03T20:46:35 < leachim6> Asshole's Inside?
2019-05-03T20:46:39 < Thorn> there's stm8cube though
2019-05-03T20:46:44 < Cracki> oh
2019-05-03T20:46:45 < leachim6> perfect!
2019-05-03T20:46:45 < Cracki> damn
2019-05-03T20:46:59 < leachim6> anyways, it's time for bed, I'll try later, thanks all o/
2019-05-03T20:47:15 < Cracki> why would they not stuff all that into the same monster
2019-05-03T20:47:18 < Thorn> it can't program anything, it's just chip selection / pin planning tool
2019-05-03T20:47:22 < englishman> leachim6: don't confuse stvp and stvd
2019-05-03T20:47:41 < leachim6> oh you are so right
2019-05-03T20:47:46 < leachim6> this one is just for loading hex files
2019-05-03T20:47:49 < leachim6> that makes a lot more sense
2019-05-03T20:47:57 < leachim6> STVD is what I wanted
2019-05-03T20:48:17 < Cracki> sexually transmitted venereal disease
2019-05-03T20:48:26 < leachim6> oh Cracki can play this game too
2019-05-03T20:48:27 < leachim6> heh
2019-05-03T20:53:52 < Thorn> ... but if you want to support reference types you have to do this: template<typename T1, typename T2> auto max (T1 a, T2 b) -> typename std::decay<decltype(true?a:b)>::type { return b < a ? a : b; }
2019-05-03T20:56:34 < Cracki> wat
2019-05-03T20:57:11 < Cracki> is the ?: op allowed to optimize when it knows it's always the first choice?
2019-05-03T20:57:17 < Cracki> optimize the type?
2019-05-03T20:57:39 < Thorn> apparently the condition doesn't matter when it's in decltype()
2019-05-03T20:57:52 < Thorn> it will always return the common type
2019-05-03T20:58:12 < Thorn> (why couldn't they introduce something like commontype() for that?)
2019-05-03T20:58:21 < Cracki> so true?foo:bar gives me foo promoted to the least common type of foo and bar...
2019-05-03T20:58:24 < Thorn> not enough c++isms already?
2019-05-03T20:58:43 < Cracki> people with type system fetishes need help
2019-05-03T21:01:34 < Thorn> std::common_type<>::type!!11
2019-05-03T21:05:03 < zyp> Thorn, do you really need the decltype in C++14?
2019-05-03T21:05:17 < zyp> I thought that was one of the things they improved from 11 to 14
2019-05-03T21:06:06 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B14#Function_return_type_deduction
2019-05-03T21:06:22 < Thorn> I sometimes like to do decltype(var_a) var_b;
2019-05-03T21:06:47 < Thorn> oh you mean in a return type specifically
2019-05-03T21:06:54 < zyp> yes
2019-05-03T21:07:01 < zyp> I meant in your max() specifically
2019-05-03T21:07:23 < zyp> I'd expect the new deduction rules to work it out automatically
2019-05-03T21:08:34 < Thorn> dunno, the book I'm reading doesn't mention it (yet?)
2019-05-03T21:09:10 < zyp> idk, I don't read books, I try stuff in practice
2019-05-03T21:11:13 < Thorn> I tried auto max() and gcc 8.3 didn't complain
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2019-05-03T21:12:22 < Thorn> dunno, IMO c++ is far too WTF to learn by experimenting. you'll have years worth of experimenting left to do even after reading all the books + the standard lol
2019-05-03T21:37:52 < Cracki> reading holy books? maybe not, that only causes misanthropy
2019-05-03T21:38:14 < Cracki> but there are two reference websites for C++ that detail all the versions and features
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2019-05-03T21:44:00 < Cracki> oh hey thorn, click on the latest link in the other room. it's about cppcon
2019-05-03T21:44:12 < Cracki> ok next to last
2019-05-03T21:51:35 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xs9LEJUY1id254tVCaBCeAXTalgAVZW0/view?usp=drivesdk
2019-05-03T21:52:38 < Cracki> hawt
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2019-05-03T23:22:49 < jadew> today I grabbed my soldering tip through one thickness of paper towel
2019-05-03T23:22:53 < jadew> @ 400 C
2019-05-03T23:23:43 < jadew> only got a small blister on one of the fingers
2019-05-03T23:27:11 < jadew> so the two things I wish existed are cold soldering tips when hot, and tweezers that are fluxfobic, so they don't sticky
2019-05-03T23:27:25 < mawk> it's the first time you burned with the iron ?
2019-05-03T23:27:51 < jadew> no, but it happens very rarely
2019-05-03T23:27:56 < jadew> and it's stupid how I got burned
2019-05-03T23:28:28 < jadew> I've done that many times but this time I was under the impression that one layer is going to be enough
2019-05-03T23:30:25 < mawk> I use like one tower folded 65536 times
2019-05-03T23:31:04 < jadew> me too
2019-05-03T23:35:22 < Thorn> I can pull a hot t12 tip out of the handle without getting burned
2019-05-03T23:36:10 < Thorn> even though it only sticks out a few cm
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2019-05-03T23:37:20 < jadew> with your bare hand?
2019-05-03T23:38:06 < Thorn> yes, with wet fingers
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--- Day changed Sat May 04 2019
2019-05-04T00:00:16 < qyx> jadew: lol do you clear the tip with a paper towel?
2019-05-04T00:00:17 < qyx> same here
2019-05-04T00:00:42 < qyx> sticky tweezers here too
2019-05-04T00:01:17 < jadew> sometimes, but this time I only wanted to change the angle
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2019-05-04T00:20:55 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-05-04T00:39:00 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: sterna, CheBuzz, brdb, futarisIRCcloud, Teeed, nikomo, HorizonBreak, malinus, tkoskine, tomeaton17,  (+19 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
2019-05-04T00:39:24 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: forrestv, ohama, johntramp, jadew, brabo, mawk, Cracki, beaky, ReadError_, Frans-Willem,  (+89 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
--- Log closed Sat May 04 01:07:13 2019
--- Log opened Sat May 04 01:07:21 2019
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2019-05-04T01:07:21 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 122 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 121 normal]
2019-05-04T01:07:25 < leachim6> oh it gets much worse this is only one shelf :')
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2019-05-04T01:07:48 < leachim6> made a little workbench in my office
2019-05-04T01:07:49 < leachim6> https://photos.app.goo.gl/jBKU4T2eJG3iKVWv7
2019-05-04T01:07:52 < kakimir> so you have parts for 20 projects but only some of them?
2019-05-04T01:07:58 -!- ntfreak [~ntfreak@unaffiliated/ntfreak] has joined ##stm32
2019-05-04T01:08:07 < kakimir> tidy leachim6 
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2019-05-04T01:08:15 < jadew> nice bench
2019-05-04T01:08:15 < englishman> no doge
2019-05-04T01:08:15 < englishman> no dicks
2019-05-04T01:08:15 < englishman> PCB fail
2019-05-04T01:08:19 -!- Irssi: Join to ##stm32 was synced in 65 secs
2019-05-04T01:08:36 < kakimir> no projects - it's good
2019-05-04T01:08:51 < jadew> englishman, that's the back
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2019-05-04T01:09:19 < leachim6> I also have drawers like this
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2019-05-04T01:09:21 < leachim6> https://photos.app.goo.gl/9hU6BbD36TvT6SSU9
2019-05-04T01:09:21 < kakimir> when projects are placed on that bench it gets small quick
2019-05-04T01:09:36 < leachim6> kakimir: yeah I have a futon in here I'm gonna get rid of and replace with an additional workbench
2019-05-04T01:09:38 < leachim6> a real workbench
2019-05-04T01:09:44 < leachim6> not a folding table with a piece of plywood on top :D
2019-05-04T01:10:08 < kakimir> leachim6: this far it's all good.. but are you planning to use 1000 5mm leds?
2019-05-04T01:10:21 < Thorn> englishman: what do you think the display is for
2019-05-04T01:10:25 < Thorn> sensor data?
2019-05-04T01:10:44 < leachim6> kakimir: they're just so cheap ;_;
2019-05-04T01:11:23 < kakimir> you need like.. 10
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2019-05-04T01:11:42 < kakimir> is there more photos leachim6 ?
2019-05-04T01:11:53 < leachim6> just remember
2019-05-04T01:11:55 < leachim6> when it comes to mains voltage
2019-05-04T01:12:02 < leachim6> safety, is number one priority
2019-05-04T01:12:04 < leachim6> https://photos.app.goo.gl/3av6QpiQzRqgrvTW8
2019-05-04T01:12:57 < leachim6> in case you can't tell, I'm sort of obsessed with organization
2019-05-04T01:12:58 < leachim6> https://photos.app.goo.gl/oQmpBwhWJWUcJrid8
2019-05-04T01:13:02 < kakimir> dangerous looking box - check
2019-05-04T01:13:04 < leachim6> kakimir: it's fully isolated!
2019-05-04T01:13:05 < leachim6> and fused!
2019-05-04T01:13:18 < kakimir> did you buy all the tools too?
2019-05-04T01:13:33 < leachim6> define all
2019-05-04T01:13:38 < leachim6> I buy tools as I need them
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2019-05-04T01:14:11 < kakimir> "the basic electronics tools"
2019-05-04T01:14:15 < leachim6> I mean yeah
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2019-05-04T01:14:25 < leachim6> I also got a little prototyping area next to my computer desk, this is on the other side of the room
2019-05-04T01:14:27 < leachim6> https://photos.app.goo.gl/WJshzFnHqi3QhiZv9
2019-05-04T01:14:33 < leachim6> ignore my shameful futon in the corner :D
2019-05-04T01:15:51 < kakimir> you seem to know what you are doing pretty much
2019-05-04T01:16:03 < leachim6> was it the tek scope that tipped you off?
2019-05-04T01:16:04 < leachim6> hah
2019-05-04T01:16:14 < leachim6> scored that on ebay, won a bid for $100
2019-05-04T01:16:31 < leachim6> which was basically a $40 scope with free shipping, heh
2019-05-04T01:17:04 < leachim6> I already have a Rigol DS1054z, I did not expect to win the auction...but then again
2019-05-04T01:17:19 < leachim6> there's something about that phosphor https://photos.app.goo.gl/8o4vvmZhfL8sFBFF8
2019-05-04T01:17:43 < kakimir> it's not all good
2019-05-04T01:17:54 < leachim6> what isn't?
2019-05-04T01:18:04 < jadew> I like old scopes too
2019-05-04T01:18:17 < jadew> don't have the space for them, but I'd like to have one
2019-05-04T01:18:30 < leachim6> just be single and fill your 2BR apartment full of crap :D
2019-05-04T01:18:42 < zyp> been there, done that
2019-05-04T01:18:46 < jadew> reminds me of the old school EEs I was visiting when I was a kid
2019-05-04T01:18:48 < kakimir> oh I looked that waveform was tilted but I checked again against the grid
2019-05-04T01:18:58 < kakimir> optical illusion
2019-05-04T01:19:03 < zyp> now I'm married with a house full of crap instead :)
2019-05-04T01:19:10 < leachim6> I was measuring a crystal here, bang on 8mhz :D
2019-05-04T01:19:22 < kakimir> you need to have empty house and house with all the crap
2019-05-04T01:19:32 < zyp> buy me another house?
2019-05-04T01:19:36 < leachim6> since I bought them from china I didn't have a datasheet or anything, but I just took a shot in the dark at 22pF load capcitance, was fine
2019-05-04T01:19:38 < kakimir> you buy me
2019-05-04T01:19:47  * leachim6 buys one kakimir
2019-05-04T01:19:52 < zyp> can't afford another since I just bought this :p
2019-05-04T01:20:01 < kakimir> buy LCR meter leachim6 
2019-05-04T01:20:06 < leachim6> kakimir: it's next on the list
2019-05-04T01:20:19 < kakimir> if you play with random components from china
2019-05-04T01:20:24 < leachim6> wanna get a nice one, cheap ones are sorta pointless because they aren't much better than a good multimeter
2019-05-04T01:20:34 < kakimir> I just utilized some caps from chinese PSU
2019-05-04T01:20:42 < kakimir> measured them just in case
2019-05-04T01:20:46 < jadew> leachim6, DE-5000
2019-05-04T01:20:54 < kakimir> 4.7u marked
2019-05-04T01:21:00 < kakimir> 2.2u measured
2019-05-04T01:21:00 < leachim6> unless you mean what the chinese *call* "LCR Testers"
2019-05-04T01:21:03 < leachim6> https://photos.app.goo.gl/fMjHJiXAHbq1myYZ6
2019-05-04T01:21:13 < leachim6> pro tip, don't blow up BJTs
2019-05-04T01:21:45 < zyp> have I mentioned how my car is not allowed to tow trailers?
2019-05-04T01:21:57 < leachim6> lol like physically not allowing you to tow a trailer?
2019-05-04T01:21:58 < jadew> zyp, why?
2019-05-04T01:22:14 < leachim6> jadew: friend of mine just recommended me the DE-5000 btw, do you have one?
2019-05-04T01:22:18 < zyp> leachim6, like not legally being able to
2019-05-04T01:22:21 < jadew> leachim6, yeah
2019-05-04T01:22:35 < zyp> jadew, specs says no
2019-05-04T01:23:00 < kakimir> zyp: any trailer at all?
2019-05-04T01:23:03 < jadew> zyp, because of power requirements?
2019-05-04T01:23:12 < jadew> heating issue maybe?
2019-05-04T01:23:22 < zyp> which is pretty ridiculous, it's built on a golf-7 frame and every other golf-7 have a tow option, just not the e-golf
2019-05-04T01:23:30 < zyp> kakimir, correct
2019-05-04T01:23:37 < kakimir> sweet
2019-05-04T01:23:40 < zyp> this is true for most other EVs
2019-05-04T01:23:55 < zyp> except TMX and a couple of the other expensive new ones that's coming
2019-05-04T01:23:59 < jadew> might have to do with the required power and thermal management
2019-05-04T01:24:17 < zyp> might be, except golf GTE can tow, even in pure electric mode
2019-05-04T01:24:22 < kakimir> and that you have 30kwh battery
2019-05-04T01:24:25 < leachim6> maybe the brushless motors can't handle the torque and will trip the BMS :D
2019-05-04T01:24:39 < kakimir> you tow anything and range drops to 30%
2019-05-04T01:25:04 < kakimir> it's like 50km then
2019-05-04T01:25:07 < leachim6> no different than drilling into solid concrete with a brushless drill
2019-05-04T01:25:11 < zyp> kakimir, I don't fucking care, I only needed 5km :)
2019-05-04T01:25:12 < leachim6> you're putting serious demand on those batteries
2019-05-04T01:25:36 < kakimir> it's just not how they "profile" the car for market
2019-05-04T01:25:44 < karlp> fucking kicad
2019-05-04T01:25:54 < leachim6> so you're saying that it's a false limitation and that's why you're upset?
2019-05-04T01:26:01 < leachim6> I feel you on that, I hate fake marketing limitations
2019-05-04T01:26:15 < zyp> so anyway, the problem is also that none of my friends in the area have cars that can tow
2019-05-04T01:26:30 < zyp> I mean, over half of them are also EVs :p
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2019-05-04T01:26:32 < kakimir> get designated towing car
2019-05-04T01:27:04 < jadew> karlp, what's wrong?
2019-05-04T01:27:07 < zyp> I considered getting a small truck, like the pickup variant of VW transporter or similar
2019-05-04T01:27:16 < zyp> I would if I had the budget for it
2019-05-04T01:27:25 < zyp> but eh
2019-05-04T01:27:29 < zyp> so anyway
2019-05-04T01:27:35 < kakimir> just buy some basic used vw
2019-05-04T01:27:39 < kakimir> sedan
2019-05-04T01:27:49 < zyp> today I messaged a guy renting out his trailer
2019-05-04T01:27:50 < karlp> just insane policy inconsistency bullshit
2019-05-04T01:28:25 < kakimir> zyp: you overlooked towing spec when bying the car and noticed it just now?
2019-05-04T01:28:35 < zyp> «hi, I would like to rent this for a couple of days, but I can't tow it myself, would it be possible for you to pick up a load of sand and deliver the trailer at my place?»
2019-05-04T01:28:38 < kakimir> would it have affected your decision?
2019-05-04T01:28:38 < karlp> you _must_ name the part this full package suffix orderable, even though the manufacturer doesn't use that name, just in case they ever make a new package for that part, and even though we actually only want one sybol per footprint anyway.
2019-05-04T01:28:38 < karlp> which I think is massively misguided.
2019-05-04T01:29:00 < zyp> kakimir, no, I've known all along, it's just now that I wanna move loads of sand and shit that I really feel it
2019-05-04T01:29:04 < karlp> and then you look at the commits in the repos from the "librarians" and it's full of "fix this fuckup, fix that"
2019-05-04T01:29:13 < karlp> but what they require of contributores is a masssssively higher bar.
2019-05-04T01:29:54 < zyp> so anyway, trailer owner was awesome enough to do that, so now I've got a trailer of sand parked outside :p
2019-05-04T01:30:13 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/xUj8v.jpg <- just in time for mixing concrete this weekend
2019-05-04T01:31:01 < jadew> zyp, nice
2019-05-04T01:31:27 < jadew> did you buy the land and built the house or was the house built but not finished when you bought it?
2019-05-04T01:31:28 < kakimir> zyp: how about you just install towing hitch?
2019-05-04T01:31:36 < jadew> I only remember photos with it standing
2019-05-04T01:31:41 < kakimir> and just tow
2019-05-04T01:31:53 < kakimir> tell nobody
2019-05-04T01:32:30 < kakimir> I bet it's installed like to any golf unless some ev shiet is there where it's to be installed
2019-05-04T01:32:50 < zyp> jadew, at what moment do you consider it bought?
2019-05-04T01:33:15 < jadew> zyp, you got it through a bank loan?
2019-05-04T01:33:50 < jadew> well, the moment you made the papers and made the first payment
2019-05-04T01:34:11 < kakimir> maybe zyp is just runs construction side business
2019-05-04T01:34:12 < zyp> house and land was sold as a package deal, but they didn't start building it before I signed the contract
2019-05-04T01:34:24 < jadew> ah, I see
2019-05-04T01:34:26 < zyp> which happened in may last year
2019-05-04T01:34:36 < jadew> neat
2019-05-04T01:35:06 < zyp> well, construction company didn't own the land, but they had a deal with the landowners
2019-05-04T01:35:07 < jadew> and they're still under contract?
2019-05-04T01:35:11 < jadew> until everything is done?
2019-05-04T01:35:37 < zyp> and this is one out of four identical (on the outside) houses, so it was all pre-designed
2019-05-04T01:35:58 < jadew> got it
2019-05-04T01:36:28 < zyp> it was done in january, at which time I (or technically my bank) paid for it and got ownership of it
2019-05-04T01:36:57 < jadew> nice
2019-05-04T01:37:10 < jadew> we've been hunting for a house for years and couldn't find something that met our needs and budget
2019-05-04T01:37:22 < jadew> now the budget is a lot lower since I spent a lot of money since I quit my job
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2019-05-04T01:37:32 < zyp> actually, I paid for the land in october or so, because there were some formality bullshit
2019-05-04T01:37:36 < kakimir> housing market has gone crazy
2019-05-04T01:37:51 < kakimir> especially in norway especially in cities
2019-05-04T01:38:03 < zyp> yeah
2019-05-04T01:38:13 < jadew> same here, but I'm sure we're not talking the same prices
2019-05-04T01:38:28 < zyp> this is a four bedroom house, one of my friends just bought a small one bedroom apartment in oslo for pretty much exactly the same price
2019-05-04T01:38:39 < jadew> a nice house, with about 500-600 square meters land would cost ~200k
2019-05-04T01:38:46 < zyp> eur?
2019-05-04T01:38:49 < jadew> yeah
2019-05-04T01:38:58 < kakimir> watched this document where somebody left Oslo and sold her appartment
2019-05-04T01:39:00 < zyp> I paid about 300
2019-05-04T01:39:12 < jadew> in the city?
2019-05-04T01:39:15 < kakimir> came back year later
2019-05-04T01:39:27 < kakimir> her appartment price had increased 300%
2019-05-04T01:39:32 < zyp> 60k EUR for the land, 240k EUR for the house
2019-05-04T01:39:46 < jadew> zyp, hmm, the land price sounds normal
2019-05-04T01:39:48 < zyp> plus some fees and shit
2019-05-04T01:40:01 < jadew> the house price seems higher than I expected
2019-05-04T01:40:07 < jadew> I guess construction work is more expensive there
2019-05-04T01:40:50 < kakimir> 300k + some shiet.. that doesn't sound bad for norway
2019-05-04T01:40:57 < zyp> this is on the outskirts of a small city, so the land price is relatively cheap, but it could naturally be a lot cheaper if it were in a more rural area
2019-05-04T01:41:31 < zyp> and the house price per m2 is apparently really cheap compared to the ballpark figures I hear other people quote
2019-05-04T01:41:32 < jadew> in small cities you can get much much better deals here
2019-05-04T01:42:15 < zyp> but yeah, norway have decent salaries even in construction, so there's probably plenty of labor costs in it
2019-05-04T01:42:27 < jadew> yup
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2019-05-04T01:43:04 < zyp> I could have gotten it 100k cheaper if I wanted to buy it as an empty shell
2019-05-04T01:43:24 < zyp> at least two of my neighbors went for that option and did the inside work themselves
2019-05-04T01:43:28 < jadew> yeah, but then you would have had to hire workers to finish the job
2019-05-04T01:43:46 < zyp> depends how much you can do yourself :)
2019-05-04T01:43:47 < jadew> ah, I wouldn't do that myself
2019-05-04T01:44:10 < ds2> zyp: how expensive are the permits there?
2019-05-04T01:44:32 < zyp> construction permit?
2019-05-04T01:44:36 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXP43UHpLk0 big murder kitten wakes up his/her homan
2019-05-04T01:44:52 < ds2> zyp: construction, electrical, etc
2019-05-04T01:44:55 < zyp> I think the construction permit were like 1700 EUR
2019-05-04T01:45:20 < zyp> if by that you mean getting permission from the municipality to build the house
2019-05-04T01:45:41 < ds2> zyp: no, I am trying to picture how much of that $100K is saved by going with a shell... 
2019-05-04T01:45:54 < ds2> in the US, there are permit fees to do electrical, plumbing, etc
2019-05-04T01:46:34 < zyp> oh, right, we don't have that
2019-05-04T01:46:42 < ds2> I assume the savings is 100K - cost of materials - permits, other fees
2019-05-04T01:46:57 < kakimir> permit fee for everything
2019-05-04T01:47:22 < jadew> ds2, - the work
2019-05-04T01:47:23 < zyp> over here electrical work on fixed installations _must_ be done by electricians
2019-05-04T01:47:25 < ds2> does the shell include having a electrical drop outside and sewage/water hook ups ?
2019-05-04T01:47:33 < ds2> jadew: assuming you can do it all yourself
2019-05-04T01:47:35 < zyp> I believe so
2019-05-04T01:47:45 < jadew> ds2, you can put a price on that too
2019-05-04T01:47:48 < ds2> MUST be? blah
2019-05-04T01:47:57 < zyp> well, I'm not concerned about that
2019-05-04T01:48:20 < ds2> jadew: yes that's a real cost...but that isn't a check you write out
2019-05-04T01:48:24 < zyp> my father is an electrician and I worked for his company for some years when I were younger
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2019-05-04T01:48:51 < ds2> zyp: do you need a license/ticket/etc to be a electrician? (on a per person basis)
2019-05-04T01:49:06 < zyp> so I figured if I bought the shell, I'd do all the electrical work myself and have him get it approved
2019-05-04T01:49:35 < ds2> oh... it isn't WHO that did it but rather it just needs a sign off?
2019-05-04T01:49:45 < zyp> well, there's titles with education requirements
2019-05-04T01:49:54 < ds2> kind of like how airplane work needs to be done
2019-05-04T01:50:11 < zyp> technically I were just a helper, so I guess formally I weren't allowed to work alone
2019-05-04T01:51:02 < zyp> but yeah, as long as the top guy signs off on the work done, he takes all the responsibility for it being done right :p
2019-05-04T01:52:25 < zyp> plumbing and other stuff is still legal to do yourself
2019-05-04T01:52:46 < ds2> I rather hire someone to do plumbing 
2019-05-04T01:53:09 < ds2> too many irritations
2019-05-04T01:55:11 < kakimir> it kinda makes sense to have licenced electrician to do electric work
2019-05-04T01:55:35 < kakimir> shit is not completelly trivial
2019-05-04T01:55:42 < ds2> how so?
2019-05-04T01:56:55 < ds2> it is a different mind set and you need to make sure you don't kill yourself
2019-05-04T01:57:15 < kakimir> majority of the people are total dummies with electrons
2019-05-04T01:57:33 < ds2> one can say that about software
2019-05-04T01:57:39 < kakimir> yes
2019-05-04T01:57:56 < ds2> but ignoring that aspect, it isn't that complicated (i.e. compared to RF black magic)
2019-05-04T02:00:08 < zyp> it's not a matter of it being complicated, it's a matter of the risks
2019-05-04T02:01:01 < ds2> no worse then anything else, IMO
2019-05-04T02:01:03 < kakimir> you can make electrical installations wrong and have indication that it's right
2019-05-04T02:01:39 < ds2> kakimir: any examples? the cases I can think of can be verified with a meter (dmm, multimeter, etc)
2019-05-04T02:01:51 < kakimir> yes
2019-05-04T02:02:14 < zyp> ds2, loose connection, seems to work until it melts and burns down your house
2019-05-04T02:02:28 < kakimir> one example
2019-05-04T02:02:56 < kakimir> indication being "oh I have electricity now.. it must be correctly done now"
2019-05-04T02:02:56 < zyp> bad grounding, everything works fine until somebody touches something that should be safe and gets electrocuted
2019-05-04T02:03:10 < zyp> and so on
2019-05-04T02:03:13 < kakimir> wrong wire size, wrong fuse size
2019-05-04T02:03:28 < ds2> zyp: how do you get to the point of a loose connection?
2019-05-04T02:03:47 < ds2> bad grounding can be measured with a meter (found that in a cube farm  before)
2019-05-04T02:03:49 < jadew> in here, there's leakage through the walls and the light switches are on null, so with LED light bulbs, the bulbs are slightly on even when off :D
2019-05-04T02:03:56 < jadew> we got used to it, it's kinda cool
2019-05-04T02:04:14 < zyp> plumbing is legal to do yourself because a water leak usually only damages property, it doesn't kill
2019-05-04T02:04:31 < ds2> sewer gases....
2019-05-04T02:04:32 < kakimir> short circuit current of the furthest point of line doesn't trip the fuse in set time limit or at all
2019-05-04T02:04:44 < zyp> ds2, which is why it's required that somebody who has education in using a meter does the job
2019-05-04T02:05:17 < ds2> zyp: yes, someone needs to have a clue but claiming it as nontrivial seems to be overkill
2019-05-04T02:05:51 < jadew> you just need to know what can kill you and how
2019-05-04T02:05:53 < ds2> kakimir: that is a fuse sizing problem. the fuse is suppose protect ALL the wiring in the circuit.
2019-05-04T02:06:10 < kakimir> yes
2019-05-04T02:06:16 < zyp> ds2, I agree, I don't care much what is legal or not, I do it all myself :p
2019-05-04T02:06:34 < ds2> a high resistance short should be no different (from the fuse point of view) then a high wattage heater
2019-05-04T02:07:17 < ds2> zyp: no arguments there... things are a little more permissive in the US
2019-05-04T02:07:29 < zyp> the problem with a high resistance short is that it usually happens in a place that's not designed to dissipate energy like a high wattage heater is
2019-05-04T02:07:39 < ds2> most places are fine with the owner doing the work unless it is something major like replacing the entrance panel
2019-05-04T02:08:19 < ds2> most US places.... 
2019-05-04T02:46:21 < Thorn> T - 7h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQFhX5TvP0M
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2019-05-04T04:10:15 < karlp> insurance on the other hand... they have a different idea of what they're prepared to pay out on...
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2019-05-04T04:39:31 < Thorn> yeah this constant current circuit doesn't work very well at all with variable supply voltage
2019-05-04T04:41:20 < Thorn> besides when it goes out of regulation there's a huge current flowing through the base of the bjt
2019-05-04T04:42:10 < Thorn> (and into the op amp)
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2019-05-04T04:50:44 < Thorn> how do I generate reference voltage referenced to Vcc, not gnd? i.e. I want Vref = Vcc - 0.25V
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2019-05-04T08:47:58 < Cracki> T - 1h
2019-05-04T09:34:35 < Cracki> 14 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQFhX5TvP0M
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2019-05-04T09:42:09 < qyx> not working :(
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2019-05-04T09:47:23 < Cracki> worksforme
2019-05-04T09:47:30 < Cracki> I'm sure there are restreams for it
2019-05-04T09:47:48 < Cracki> https://www.nasa.gov/nasalive
2019-05-04T09:48:07 < Cracki> they look to have 30 seconds delay
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2019-05-04T09:56:49 < qyx> I tried 3 different streams
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2019-05-04T09:58:51 < emeb_mac> nice IR view of the 1st stage landing
2019-05-04T09:59:46 < qyx> I missed the landing
2019-05-04T10:00:49 < Cracki> yeah those were very nicely "lit" views, also of the inside of the trunk, and no signal cutouts at all!
2019-05-04T10:03:05 < emeb_mac> you can probably scroll back on the spacex live youtube stream
2019-05-04T10:03:43 < Cracki> definitely
2019-05-04T10:04:23 < Cracki> and it's over
2019-05-04T10:06:52 < emeb_mac> hrhr - May the 4th pun.
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2019-05-04T10:53:13 < rajkosto> is it insane that if you have a temperature sensitive photodiode on one side of the pcb
2019-05-04T10:53:19 < rajkosto> with a temperature sensor on it
2019-05-04T10:53:33 < rajkosto> to put a resistor just for heating on the other side of the pcb, until the temperature matches the calibrated one
2019-05-04T11:01:09 < Steffanx> Better not go to dutchland jadew. 200k is like the minimum for a not so great house :(
2019-05-04T11:06:02 -!- X230t [x13@gateway/shell/suchznc/x-gmkbkmnyxmlvlhim] has quit [Quit: So long fuckers]
2019-05-04T11:33:17 < jadew> Steffanx, crazy
2019-05-04T11:33:48 < jadew> you can get a not so great house in here for less than 100k, around Bucharest
2019-05-04T11:34:28 < jadew> rajkosto, it's fine
2019-05-04T11:35:07 < jadew> usually the solution involves compensation tho
2019-05-04T11:35:15 < jadew> but heating things up is also an option
2019-05-04T11:35:35 < jadew> the problem with that is that it takes a while for things to heat up, while compensation works right away
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2019-05-04T12:07:21 < rajkosto> i dont really know how to compensate
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2019-05-04T14:08:21 < jadew> so... my kid called me today to his room to show me what an awesome movie he found, with an awesome battle
2019-05-04T14:08:56 < jadew> when I got there he was more than 10 minutes in, into the last episode of game of thrones lol
2019-05-04T14:10:07 < jadew> I had to rewatch from the beginning to make sure he didn't see anything gruesome
2019-05-04T14:10:26 < jadew> he was lucky
2019-05-04T14:10:34 < Steffanx> awh
2019-05-04T14:10:53 < Steffanx> Boobies.
2019-05-04T14:11:19 < jadew> there were no boobies either, but I wouldn't have minded that
2019-05-04T14:15:43 < Steffanx> Better start from season 1 then jadew
2019-05-04T14:15:49 < Steffanx> for some boobies and semi-gruesome deaths
2019-05-04T14:15:55 < jadew> ah, I'm up to date on it
2019-05-04T14:16:12 < Steffanx> i meant with the kid :P
2019-05-04T14:16:20 < jadew> haha
2019-05-04T14:16:27 < jadew> maybe when he's 10 or so
2019-05-04T14:22:24 < Steffanx> )
2019-05-04T14:48:00 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buD2RM0xChM
2019-05-04T14:59:12 < Steffanx> The title was the best part of the vid
2019-05-04T15:00:44 < jadew> I found it funny
2019-05-04T15:02:52 < specing> jadew the helicopter parent
2019-05-04T15:04:10 < jadew> I'm hoovering?
2019-05-04T15:05:32 < specing> yes, over your child
2019-05-04T15:05:49 < Steffanx> is that bad?
2019-05-04T15:06:13 < specing> depends on how much hovering is done
2019-05-04T15:06:32 < Steffanx> How many kids do you have specing?
2019-05-04T15:06:33 < jadew> well, he's 5, I don't want to have to explain why some dude is walking with another dude's head in a bag
2019-05-04T15:08:01 < jadew> but yeah, I'll probably do this until he's 30
2019-05-04T15:08:24 < Steffanx> Good good. Proper parenting :)
2019-05-04T15:08:29 < englishman> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1548973
2019-05-04T15:10:49 < Steffanx> shit happens
2019-05-04T15:11:08 < jadew> install the earlier version
2019-05-04T15:11:42 < jadew> at least it's something that can be fixed
2019-05-04T15:24:44 < rajkosto> but can it be fixed on the ancient version 52 im still running ?
2019-05-04T15:24:49 < rajkosto> hope my addons dont forever stop working
2019-05-04T15:25:15 < jadew> if it's just a certificate issue, no
2019-05-04T15:25:29 < jadew> if it was an API change (like it happened in the past), maybe
2019-05-04T15:25:31 < rajkosto> even if it is some certificates inside the program might need to be updated
2019-05-04T15:36:42 < dongs> better ban your child from watching murican garbage, jadew 
2019-05-04T15:36:47 < dongs> especially faggotry of thrones
2019-05-04T15:37:33 < rajkosto> i still havent seen a single ep of that nor do i have any interest in doing so
2019-05-04T15:37:36 < Steffanx> oh no, dongs dislikes something again. Better go translate some anime dongs.
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2019-05-04T20:40:25 < bitmask> anyone ever use borax for ants?
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2019-05-04T20:58:14 < mawk> I use it for cockroaches
2019-05-04T20:58:29 < mawk> they carry it on their shells, get back to the nest and kill every other cockroach
2019-05-04T20:58:30 < mawk> it's cool
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2019-05-04T21:06:54 < karlp> yeah, I've used it for cockroachs and ants in aus, worked really well.
2019-05-04T21:07:03 < karlp> we mixed it withh something, some sugar or something.
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2019-05-04T21:20:06 < mawk> what's the point of changing the Vdd voltage in software ?
2019-05-04T21:20:09 < mawk> I thought it was dynamic
2019-05-04T21:20:50 < mawk> it's for the BOR detector to have good values ?
2019-05-04T21:31:52 < Steffanx> isn't it more a power consumption thing? Not sure what vdd change in sw you are referring too though
2019-05-04T22:00:21 < Steffanx> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/errata_sheet/group0/67/fc/8e/f4/b5/bf/41/6f/DM00183231/files/DM00183231.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00183231.pdf#%5B%7B%22num%22%3A37%2C%22gen%22%3A0%7D%2C%7B%22name%22%3A%22XYZ%22%7D%2C67%2C456%2Cnull%5D  hmm ST, but how you fuck this up after doing soo many MCUs? 
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2019-05-04T22:10:57 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/btRMtRV
2019-05-04T22:11:05 < bitmask> printing ant crackhouse
2019-05-04T22:13:09 < Steffanx> the ants are inside your house?
2019-05-04T22:14:54 < bitmask> unfortunately
2019-05-04T22:15:09 < bitmask> not sure how they are getting in
2019-05-04T22:15:53 < bitmask> but its not my house so I'm limited to controlling our room, so I'm gonna print 3-4 of these guys, supposedly borax + sugar water works well
2019-05-04T22:17:00 < mawk> bitmask: https://paste.serveur.io/uS3ncrdX
2019-05-04T22:17:26 < bitmask> ahh nice!
2019-05-04T22:17:27 < bitmask> thanks
2019-05-04T22:17:40 < jadew> bitmask, I used it for cockroaches too
2019-05-04T22:17:43 < jadew> it works great
2019-05-04T22:18:14 < jadew> like karlp said, you have to mix it with something
2019-05-04T22:18:25 < jadew> I mixed it with water and added a bit of bread
2019-05-04T22:19:18 < jadew> bug in my gpib controller that has bugged me for a year turned out to not be a bug (after several hours of debugging)
2019-05-04T22:19:34 < jadew> the instrument in question was set to talk a different protocol [:facepalm:]
2019-05-04T22:19:38 < mawk> ants are nice little creatures
2019-05-04T22:19:39 < bitmask> the recipe I got was 1/2 cup sugar, 1 1/2 tbsp borax, 1.5 cups warm water, mix in cotton balls
2019-05-04T22:19:59 < jadew> mawk, until they start living with you
2019-05-04T22:20:19 < bitmask> I have these organic cotton sheets from when I vaped, so I cut them and they fit perfectly in the cutout of my killer house design :)
2019-05-04T22:21:13 < jadew> bitmask, using the cap from plastic bottle was too low tech?
2019-05-04T22:21:22 < bitmask> of course :)
2019-05-04T22:22:24 < bitmask> I know they can walk on walls but I wanted a nice ramp for em to easily find their way :P
2019-05-04T22:23:58 < Steffanx> ii wonder if i've ever seen a cockroach in real life.
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2019-05-04T22:24:40 < jadew> Steffanx, really?
2019-05-04T22:24:42 < bitmask> I had roaches once in my old shitty apartment, this stuff I got in a syringe worked amazingly though
2019-05-04T22:25:03 < mawk> I've had mouses and cockroaches
2019-05-04T22:25:08 < mawk> but not bed bugs
2019-05-04T22:25:16 < mawk> bed bugs are the worst I think, they make people go crazy
2019-05-04T22:25:27 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/Advion-Cockroach-Bait-4-syringes-1-06/dp/B002Y2GNVM/
2019-05-04T22:25:28 < bitmask> that stuff
2019-05-04T22:25:30 < Steffanx> Yeah. i had to google if we even have them here jadew. But it seems we do.
2019-05-04T22:26:02 < jadew> Steffanx, then you were extremely lucky
2019-05-04T22:27:01 < Steffanx> or not.
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2019-05-04T22:27:10 < Steffanx> not sure how "common" they are
2019-05-04T22:29:29 < jadew> wiki says they've been around for 320 million years
2019-05-04T22:29:54 < mawk> NL is cold Steffanx 
2019-05-04T22:30:07 < mawk> bugs don't like that
2019-05-04T22:30:13 < mawk> bugs like hot and moist
2019-05-04T22:30:24 < bitmask> I know where its hot a moist
2019-05-04T22:30:25 < Steffanx> then you dont know dutchland
2019-05-04T22:30:26 < bitmask> and
2019-05-04T22:31:11 < jadew> apparently the ones in Germany are super smart
2019-05-04T22:31:22 < mawk> me Steffanx ?
2019-05-04T22:31:28 < jadew> they have a social structure and can recognize eachother
2019-05-04T22:31:38 < bitmask> was hitler breeding them to be spies?
2019-05-04T22:31:53 < mawk> russia trained a whale to be a spy
2019-05-04T22:32:00 < mawk> and destroy coast lines of finland or something
2019-05-04T22:32:12 < jadew> maybe, but the ones in the USA have a much better health care system: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/%22Periplaneta_americana%22_connected_to_the_electrophysiology_equipment.JPG
2019-05-04T22:32:14 < Steffanx> yes you mawk. it can be hot and moist here in the summer
2019-05-04T22:32:24 < kakimir> how would you wire 1wire to rj11 - 4pin
2019-05-04T22:32:27 < mawk> we don't have the same definition of hot maybe Steffanx 
2019-05-04T22:32:33 < mawk> is 20°C hot ?
2019-05-04T22:32:51 < mawk> hot would be 30°C
2019-05-04T22:32:54 < bitmask> kak how dare you speak on topic
2019-05-04T22:32:56 < mawk> everytime I go to NL I'm cold
2019-05-04T22:33:05 < Steffanx> 25-30 isnt that weird
2019-05-04T22:33:12 < mawk> you're in the south ?
2019-05-04T22:33:27 < mawk> the sea is helping you
2019-05-04T22:33:38 < Steffanx> north
2019-05-04T22:34:16 < kakimir> I just wonder if there is any de facto way to wire rj11 1wire
2019-05-04T22:34:18 < mawk> I was in friesland for vacation everytime
2019-05-04T22:34:49 < Steffanx> in may?
2019-05-04T22:35:00 < mawk> in july and august
2019-05-04T22:39:55 < Steffanx> hm
2019-05-04T22:40:39 < mawk> but I may remember it bad
2019-05-04T22:40:41 < mawk> I was a little mawk
2019-05-04T22:42:05 < Steffanx> aaah
2019-05-04T22:44:09 < mawk> going with the boat on the little friesland channels
2019-05-04T22:44:18 < kakimir> okay I will do 2 - DQ, 3 - GND, 4 - +5V
2019-05-04T22:44:27 < mawk> yes do however you want kakimir 
2019-05-04T22:44:37 < mawk> it's not like it ought to be standardized
2019-05-04T22:44:51 < mawk> and could always rework it latert
2019-05-04T22:45:04 < kakimir> I have pin row connectors in 1wire hub
2019-05-04T22:45:16 < kakimir> and indivudual duponts
2019-05-04T22:45:24 < kakimir> just rewire
2019-05-04T22:45:42 < kakimir> rewire for individual channels if I wish to
2019-05-04T22:48:00 < Steffanx> Hows the tune box going kakimir?
2019-05-04T22:48:01 < Steffanx> is it done?
2019-05-04T22:48:28 < kakimir> no
2019-05-04T22:48:31 < kakimir> not even started
2019-05-04T22:48:40 < Steffanx> bought the aliexpress box?
2019-05-04T22:48:44 < kakimir> nope
2019-05-04T22:48:49 < kakimir> I'm boxpro
2019-05-04T22:49:12 < kakimir> I don't want any excess layers
2019-05-04T22:49:21 < kakimir> like midi
2019-05-04T22:50:38 < Steffanx> ok
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2019-05-04T22:51:58 < kakimir> I'm building a box
2019-05-04T22:54:21 < Steffanx> kakimir knows best.
2019-05-04T22:54:23 < Steffanx> :P
2019-05-04T22:54:31 < Steffanx> or autisms best. Not sure what applies here :P
2019-05-04T22:54:46 < kakimir> both
2019-05-04T22:55:57 < kakimir> does pin order go same way in rj11 than in rj45?
2019-05-04T22:57:31 < kakimir> maybe
2019-05-04T22:57:54 < kakimir> midi would ofc be useful layer of extendability
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2019-05-04T23:01:24 < kakimir> I will make the program first
2019-05-04T23:01:28 < kakimir> before the box
2019-05-04T23:01:43 < kakimir> thing can work without box
2019-05-04T23:01:54 < kakimir> but box wont be any use without the thing
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2019-05-04T23:07:28 < karlp>  what pcb sw is this? https://github.com/S-March/smarchWatch_PUBLIC/blob/master/Schematics/smarchWatch.PDF
2019-05-04T23:09:10 < kakimir> nice
2019-05-04T23:09:39 < Steffanx> it looks like altium much.
2019-05-04T23:10:51 < Steffanx> and the pdf says Altium in the info ;)
2019-05-04T23:11:30 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/a/iGtNtnA
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2019-05-04T23:12:30 < kakimir> mad size flash chip there
2019-05-04T23:12:57 < kakimir> this doesn't look like opensores
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2019-05-04T23:13:32 < kakimir> is it?
2019-05-04T23:13:35 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c700:d26:28d0:6a34:3354:c04d] has joined ##stm32
2019-05-04T23:14:31 < Steffanx> what mr kakimir?
2019-05-04T23:15:06 < Steffanx> "Removed SDK files at request of Dialog Semiconductor" ... lol great job
2019-05-04T23:18:40 < Steffanx> the watch is pertty nice
2019-05-04T23:20:38 < kakimir> is there photos of built ones?
2019-05-04T23:23:08 < Steffanx> yes
2019-05-04T23:23:17 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/a/FSBwD3g the entire build log.
2019-05-04T23:23:31 < Steffanx> dont you hackaday kakimir?
2019-05-04T23:38:27 < Thorn> TIL: TFT display is an actuator
2019-05-04T23:40:06 < jpa-> but oleds are not
2019-05-04T23:42:40 < englishman> pretty cool
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2019-05-04T23:52:38 < karlp> can you download the sdk from dialog as a normal person at all?
2019-05-04T23:54:51 < zyp> fucking two stroke gasoline engine bullshit
2019-05-04T23:56:10 < zyp> so I got tired of my shitty rock drill not drilling and decided to rent another
2019-05-04T23:56:35 < zyp> about twice as big and heavy as the one I've got, still as fucking hard to start too
2019-05-04T23:57:12 < jpa-> karlp: yeah, registering & agreeing to license seems to be enough
2019-05-04T23:58:35 < Thorn> https://gist.github.com/aras-p/6224951
2019-05-04T23:58:36 < zyp> once it started it went through the rock like butter, but then it stopped again
--- Day changed Sun May 05 2019
2019-05-05T00:00:17 < zyp> got tired of dicking around with it so I went and returned it and got my money back, then went and bought a mountain drill bit for sds-max and rented an electric drill from some other guy
2019-05-05T00:00:28 < zyp> should have just done that right away
2019-05-05T00:00:51 < englishman> lol Thorn
2019-05-05T00:01:00 < zyp> not as efficient as the gasoline ones when they run, but since they almost never run, electric got the shit done a lot faster
2019-05-05T00:01:01 < englishman> whoa a mountain drill
2019-05-05T00:01:04 < englishman> that sounds serious
2019-05-05T00:01:21 < zyp> the one I rented was an atlas copco cobra
2019-05-05T00:01:37 < zyp> I think he said it weighed 25kg
2019-05-05T00:02:00 < karlp> you're drilling to break? or drilling to mount things?
2019-05-05T00:02:22 < jpa-> drilling to make a tunnel to the core of earth
2019-05-05T00:02:34 < jpa-> he'll steal your geotherms
2019-05-05T00:02:41 < zyp> drilling to get rid of the rest of this shit: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/tMj9x.jpg
2019-05-05T00:02:59 < zyp> old pic, that was done with my shitty gasoline thing
2019-05-05T00:05:14 < zyp> here's the shit I'm building: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/akWaI.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/YtVB6.jpg
2019-05-05T00:05:46 < zyp> the stone I removed was in the way of that
2019-05-05T00:06:05 < Thorn> is that a bunker
2019-05-05T00:06:25 < zyp> there's more stones and mountain further in the back, but I'll deal with that later
2019-05-05T00:07:33 < zyp> priority one is to get this portion done, before people come to lay asphalt
2019-05-05T00:08:21 < zyp> Thorn, no, it's the border of my property
2019-05-05T00:09:02 < fenugrec> zyp ever try betonamit ? high expansion rock-splitting compound stuff
2019-05-05T00:09:32 < zyp> my property is narrow enough that I want all of it to be flat usable space, not a shitty dirt slope
2019-05-05T00:10:07 < zyp> so I'm building the wall along the border and then I will flatten the ground on the inside
2019-05-05T00:10:55 < zyp> fenugrec, I haven't heard that name, but there's a ton of similar products on the market here; trollkraft, fjellsprekk, bergsprekk, sino crack, etc…
2019-05-05T00:11:55 < englishman> trollkraft
2019-05-05T00:11:58 < englishman> mountain drill
2019-05-05T00:12:01 < englishman> pro shit
2019-05-05T00:12:04 < fenugrec> those names sound cooler, but yeah probably similar heh
2019-05-05T00:12:26 < zyp> englishman, well
2019-05-05T00:13:13 < zyp> when I'm doing the big rocks in the back, I might rent a compressor and a pneumatic drill
2019-05-05T00:13:40 < zyp> https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=144144672 <- this shit
2019-05-05T00:13:49 < zyp> the kind of compressor that you tow :p
2019-05-05T00:14:19 < englishman> neighbour has one of those. straight 6 4L diesel engine
2019-05-05T00:15:18 < zyp> for now I've just used plug wedges, works fine for smaller stuff and you don't have to wait for it to start working
2019-05-05T00:16:19 < zyp> disadvantage with that is that they don't reach super deep into the holes, like those expanding concrete solutions does
2019-05-05T00:16:33 < englishman> that stuff looks super cool
2019-05-05T00:16:37 < englishman> what a great invention
2019-05-05T00:16:53 < zyp> hehe
2019-05-05T00:17:32 < zyp> will see how much rock I've got to remove in the back, once I remove the dirt surface
2019-05-05T00:18:04 < zyp> I know some of it is already cracked, but I'm not sure how much
2019-05-05T00:18:31 < zyp> and whether the rest is doable by wedges or if I should do pneumatic
2019-05-05T00:19:12 < zyp> I mean
2019-05-05T00:19:42 < zyp> if I can do it with wedges, an electric drill will do fine
2019-05-05T00:20:30 < zyp> if I'm using expanding concrete, a pneumatic drill will make nice and deep holes, and drill much faster
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2019-05-05T00:22:46 < zyp> plug wedges are fun too, love the sound when you've applied some tension and you hear the rock starting to crack up
2019-05-05T00:24:37 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tBrFtmTPgpATNWZR6_g96Uj14wxTYQY3/view?usp=sharing box project
2019-05-05T00:24:44 < kakimir> this project started around 2013
2019-05-05T00:25:34 < kakimir> hub has date 11.2013
2019-05-05T00:25:59 < kakimir> that raspi mess board with cheap regus is probs 2014 era
2019-05-05T00:26:05 < kakimir> it has level shifter
2019-05-05T00:26:17 < kakimir> and rtc!
2019-05-05T00:26:21 < zyp> was that before or after your sma obsession? evidently not during
2019-05-05T00:26:32 < kakimir> long before
2019-05-05T00:26:54 < Steffanx> 2013 != before
2019-05-05T00:27:37 < Steffanx> whats that at the bottom again? the one wire stuff?
2019-05-05T00:27:44 < kakimir> hub
2019-05-05T00:27:51 < kakimir> i2c interface
2019-05-05T00:27:54 < Steffanx> oh
2019-05-05T00:29:12 < kakimir> box needs now only DC but I will continue later
2019-05-05T00:29:15 < Steffanx> im still not sure what it is hubbing though. usb? ethernet? i2c?
2019-05-05T00:29:19 < kakimir> 1wire
2019-05-05T00:30:07 < Steffanx> did it really need that cooling?
2019-05-05T00:30:15 < Steffanx> *heatsink
2019-05-05T00:30:31 < kakimir> idk
2019-05-05T00:30:54 < kakimir> I'm not to judge myself
2019-05-05T00:31:04 < kakimir> I just connect all the wires and it's good
2019-05-05T00:31:20 < Steffanx> where will the potmeters go?
2019-05-05T00:31:55 < kakimir> potmeters?
2019-05-05T00:32:04 < kakimir> this is another box
2019-05-05T00:32:42 < kakimir> that box with potmeters will have usb-uart and piece of board with attiny1617
2019-05-05T00:32:55 < kakimir> maybe some low pass filtering featured
2019-05-05T00:33:52 < Steffanx> dont do it.
2019-05-05T00:33:53 < Steffanx> go stm32
2019-05-05T00:33:54 < qyx> uhm 4P4C glued
2019-05-05T00:33:55 < Steffanx> do usb
2019-05-05T00:35:15 < qyx> I would connect them to a gameport
2019-05-05T00:35:34 < kakimir> Steffanx: why..
2019-05-05T00:35:45 < kakimir> attiny is zero sweat
2019-05-05T00:35:47 < kakimir> also 5v
2019-05-05T00:35:47 < Steffanx> because. AVR.
2019-05-05T00:35:50 < kakimir> 5v!
2019-05-05T00:35:53 < Steffanx> and usb-uart
2019-05-05T00:36:06 < kakimir> silabser usb-uart is golden
2019-05-05T00:36:22 < kakimir> solder it on and connect works 100%
2019-05-05T00:36:34 < Steffanx> so did prolific once
2019-05-05T00:37:26 < kakimir> rs232 then?
2019-05-05T00:37:45 < kakimir> it limits ofc use with laptop
2019-05-05T00:39:08 < kakimir> silabser boards I have a ton of just work
2019-05-05T00:39:18 < kakimir> CP2108 or something like that
2019-05-05T00:42:01 < Steffanx> do you atmel studio and atmel start?
2019-05-05T00:44:19 < kakimir> yes
2019-05-05T00:44:22 < kakimir> and ice
2019-05-05T00:44:33 < kakimir> as if I needed to for this box thing
2019-05-05T00:45:45 < Steffanx> the with box
2019-05-05T00:50:11 < kakimir> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-USB-to-CAN-bus-adapter-Analyzer-module-compatible-with-USB-I2C-SPI-GPIO-UART/32428969459.html?
2019-05-05T00:50:20 < kakimir> what this?
2019-05-05T00:50:51 < kakimir> jlink mold is well utilized
2019-05-05T00:51:52 < kakimir> what is this a copy from?
2019-05-05T00:53:35 < catphish> my deinterlacer is very broken :( https://i.imgur.com/e8ead10.jpg
2019-05-05T00:54:30 < catphish> but my setup is pretty https://i.imgur.com/w1Ncv0m.jpg
2019-05-05T00:55:19 < kakimir> amiga virus?
2019-05-05T00:56:14 < kakimir> does a3000 run a500 and a1200 software?
2019-05-05T00:56:45 < aandrew> oh nice, there's some nice PTP monitoring software that's cross platform: https://www.ptptrackhound.com/
2019-05-05T00:56:57 < aandrew> and ptpd runs nicely on osx too
2019-05-05T00:57:45 < catphish> kakimir: it's largely compatible, though i don't think games work out of the box
2019-05-05T00:58:11 < kakimir> aandrew: what PTP?
2019-05-05T00:58:18 < catphish> i don't know specifically what's not compatible
2019-05-05T00:58:27 < aandrew> precision time protocol
2019-05-05T00:58:34 < aandrew> IEEE1588
2019-05-05T00:58:37 < kakimir> sweet
2019-05-05T00:58:53 < catphish> i want to write my own OS for this thing, but i need to make sure the hardware works first
2019-05-05T00:59:01 < aandrew> ntpd does precision sync across networks; ptp is more for LANs and segments, down to nanosecond sync
2019-05-05T00:59:30 < kakimir> what are thou syncin aandrew?
2019-05-05T00:59:57 < kakimir> catphish: :O you are going all over the place now
2019-05-05T01:00:42 < catphish> kakimir: lol i have a few projects, i develop low level code for whatever interesting hardware i can find :)
2019-05-05T01:00:46 < aandrew> kakimir: it's part of that big system I've been working on; ptp is how everything is synchronized
2019-05-05T01:01:27 < kakimir> sweet non-answer. work or hobby?
2019-05-05T01:01:27 < aandrew> you have a "constellation" of IR leds in a known rigid body on an industrial robot arm, and you have three pinhole cameras watching it
2019-05-05T01:01:35 < aandrew> I was writing, asshat. :-)
2019-05-05T01:01:46 < catphish> kakimir: me? strictly hobby
2019-05-05T01:01:58 < catphish> there's no world in which developing for a 30 year old PC makes money :)
2019-05-05T01:02:20 < kakimir> that is given
2019-05-05T01:02:29 < aandrew> basically you light up the LEDs one by one and you see where they are on the three linear ccds. some math later and you know where the robot arm is in space. do it fast and you have it occuring at 2500fps
2019-05-05T01:02:57 < catphish> kakimir: i develop all sorts of things, at some point i'm hoping to make some money in electronics, but first i learn everything
2019-05-05T01:03:52 < catphish> current projects: 1) fix amiga 3000 2) make USB floppy drive for amiga disks 3) programmable digital guitar pedal
2019-05-05T01:04:20 < bitmask> whoo, got my first stm32 loose ICs
2019-05-05T01:04:21 < kakimir> is there any programable pedals out there?
2019-05-05T01:04:40 < bitmask> oh, second actually, forgot I already got another order last week. now I need to find a use for em
2019-05-05T01:04:46 < catphish> kakimir: i'm not sure, i found a couple of designs for arduino ones
2019-05-05T01:05:01 < catphish> http://diydsp.com/livesite/pages/GuitarPedals
2019-05-05T01:06:40 < kakimir> you play guitar?
2019-05-05T01:06:56 < catphish> badly
2019-05-05T01:07:06 < catphish> i'm learning
2019-05-05T01:07:39 < kakimir> catphish: does your amiga have full 1MB of ram?
2019-05-05T01:07:51 < catphish> kakimir: i think it has 16
2019-05-05T01:09:15 < catphish> i'm not sure of the details though
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2019-05-05T01:11:23 < kakimir> http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=81094 try this
2019-05-05T01:11:36 < kakimir> graphics chip is the same
2019-05-05T01:16:27 < kakimir> http://www.pouet.net/prodlist.php?platform%5B0%5D=Amiga+OCS%2FECS&page=1&order=thumbup or any of these
2019-05-05T01:18:09 < Steffanx> Did you even figure out what the old ic you had was mr kakimir ?
2019-05-05T01:18:51 < kakimir> nope
2019-05-05T01:19:01 < Steffanx> Andc004d damn i have to remember: weet non-answer. work or hobby?" 
2019-05-05T01:19:05 < Thorn> should I ever protect usb Vbus input from reverse polarity?
2019-05-05T01:19:10 < Steffanx> Since you do that too often :P
2019-05-05T01:20:03 < kakimir> probs very obscure and highly sought after by collectors
2019-05-05T01:20:37 < kakimir> Thorn: nope
2019-05-05T01:20:44 < kakimir> I have not seen it anywhere
2019-05-05T01:21:32 < kakimir> but adding a TVS "bug" in sot23-5 or smaller to clamp transients from vbus and +d -d would be good
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2019-05-05T01:23:05 < Thorn> tvs or esd? I'm using usblc6-2sc6
2019-05-05T01:23:26 < kakimir> sounds like it
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2019-05-05T01:24:24 < kakimir> that should do
2019-05-05T01:24:37 < Thorn> final version https://imgur.com/a/beqTPrY
2019-05-05T01:25:25 < aandrew> Thorn: nice. what's it do
2019-05-05T01:25:41 < kakimir> very sexy layout
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2019-05-05T01:28:27 < Thorn> aandrew: measure temperature, humidity, temperature, air pressure, ambient light, sound pressure level and temperature, and transmit to the master device over 868 MHz fsk (and maybe LoRa if I implement it in my software)
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2019-05-05T01:30:27 < Thorn> (half the board is taken by an ADS1220 based Pt100 RTD circuit)
2019-05-05T01:35:47 < aandrew> interesting
2019-05-05T01:35:50 < aandrew> why the screen then?
2019-05-05T01:38:11 < Thorn> dunno, people think it looks more pro with a screen lol if I need to show it to someone + should help with radio protocol testing
2019-05-05T01:38:17 < aandrew> for sure
2019-05-05T01:38:37 < Thorn> a production device wouldn't have much need for a display
2019-05-05T01:38:38 < aandrew> I have one of those stupid ssd1306 LCDs on a common ribbon cable for debugging; drop it on new designs and lets me do quick debug
2019-05-05T01:39:29 < zyp> aandrew, neat
2019-05-05T01:45:39 < Thorn> btw do I still need DW01 protection for a LiPo battery?
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2019-05-05T02:05:20 < kakimir> dw1
2019-05-05T02:05:25 < kakimir> 01?
2019-05-05T02:06:03 < kakimir> why you would not need it?
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2019-05-05T02:15:22 < kakimir> what change makes it unnecessary?
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2019-05-05T02:56:05 < bitmask> that took too long, oh well, 4 ant traps set
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2019-05-05T03:37:09 < catphish> after just about a whole day of debugging, it seems one of the logic ICs in this amiga is dead :(
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2019-05-05T03:40:20 < mawk> are they in stock somewhere catphish ?
2019-05-05T03:40:29 < mawk> what does the ic do ?
2019-05-05T03:40:45 < catphish> mawk: it's a dm74als74an, seems easy enough to buy
2019-05-05T03:41:12 < catphish> it's used as some kind of clock latch, i don't fully understand the setup
2019-05-05T03:41:14 < mawk> ah good
2019-05-05T03:41:20 < mawk> a PLL maybe ?
2019-05-05T03:41:52 < catphish> https://www.amigawiki.org/dnl/schematics/A3000.pdf << page 11 "U480"
2019-05-05T03:42:27 < catphish> i think it alternates between reading and writing some memory ICs
2019-05-05T03:43:13 < catphish> but pins 5,6,8,9 are just floating noisy garbage
2019-05-05T03:44:21 < mawk> small chip
2019-05-05T03:44:38 < catphish> for miniscule orders of ICs like this i will just hit ebay :) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162306943738
2019-05-05T03:44:47 < catphish> i'll replace it and hope for the best
2019-05-05T03:44:49 < mawk> yeah looks like a latch
2019-05-05T03:45:40 < catphish> this particular IC sits immediately next to a nasty leaking battery
2019-05-05T03:46:21 < catphish> not sure how the battery corrosion could have damaged the inside of the IC, but i doubt it's a coincidence
2019-05-05T03:46:36 < mawk> it's a data/delay flip flop
2019-05-05T03:46:53 < mawk> like, memory cell
2019-05-05T03:46:57 < mawk> 1bit ram
2019-05-05T03:47:01 < mawk> aka buffer
2019-05-05T03:47:36 < catphish> here it is :) https://i.imgur.com/DryCD2W.jpg
2019-05-05T03:47:52 < catphish> "SP8952 DM..."
2019-05-05T03:48:29 < mawk> maybe if you clean all the corrosion it will work
2019-05-05T03:48:44 < catphish> i've cleaned it up and repaired the tracks :)
2019-05-05T03:48:49 < mawk> ah good
2019-05-05T03:49:07 < mawk> good news is that it looks like it was the worst corroded chip
2019-05-05T03:49:12 < mawk> if you replace it it will maybe work
2019-05-05T03:50:00 < catphish> yeah, i guess the corrosion got inside that one :(
2019-05-05T03:50:28 < catphish> it looks like this now: https://i.imgur.com/pVGTvEn.jpg
2019-05-05T03:50:46 < mawk> it's nicer
2019-05-05T03:51:07 < catphish> i've tested every part of the damaged circuit and it all works apart from the output from that IC
2019-05-05T03:52:05 < mawk> I guess you also tried to power up the whole thing and it didn't work ?
2019-05-05T03:53:01 < catphish> actually the whole thing works apart from one specific part: the video deinterlacer that uses those memory ICs
2019-05-05T03:53:09 < mawk> ah, I see
2019-05-05T03:53:47 < catphish> overall the repair seems sound, but that particular functionality being broken is bothering me 
2019-05-05T04:17:15 < englishman> zyp: quote from a tesla driver regarding the installation of a tesla charger in a public space
2019-05-05T04:17:16 < englishman> "Unfortunately the other manufacturers haven't adopted Tesla's technology, so no one else but a Tesla car can use these stations."
2019-05-05T04:17:23 < englishman> quite the attitude there
2019-05-05T04:20:25 < englishman> this guy https://i.imgur.com/iyI49Bs.jpg
2019-05-05T04:32:56 < mawk> I hope tesla pays for the installation and maintenance, and gives occupation fees to the city hall
2019-05-05T04:49:30 < specing> englishman: well, he is technically correct
2019-05-05T04:57:04 < englishman> yeah, why doesnt every phone have the awesome lightning port? those phone manufacturers sure are lazy
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2019-05-05T07:04:16 < jadew> catphish, what are you repairing?
2019-05-05T07:07:39 < jadew> time for bed
2019-05-05T07:07:43 < jadew> bbye
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2019-05-05T09:16:28 < catphish> jadew: amiga 3000 https://i.imgur.com/w1Ncv0m.jpg
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2019-05-05T11:48:20 < zyp> englishman, well, american teslas use a proprietary connector
2019-05-05T11:49:17 < zyp> european teslas use the european standard, so any cars with type-2 connectors can charge on the tesla wallboxes here
2019-05-05T12:08:17 < Thorn> Electron launch replay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19G_suMgcls
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2019-05-05T12:12:05 < Cracki> is that the same goddamned "live replay" channel from last time, or ANOTHER one?
2019-05-05T12:14:31 < Thorn> this one says "replay" lol
2019-05-05T12:14:40 < Thorn> and it happened 3 hours ago
2019-05-05T12:14:42 < dfgg> [live] xD
2019-05-05T12:14:54 < Cracki> what's 3d printed about that thing? all engineering uses additively manufactured parts
2019-05-05T12:15:05 < Cracki> *most
2019-05-05T12:15:40 < Cracki> even the semi-amateur formula E team at my uni gets some parts laser sintered and the important surfaces milled
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2019-05-05T12:15:55 < Cracki> they're streaming the same video in a loop
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2019-05-05T12:20:32 < Cracki> that rocket lab is copying all the aesthetics from spacex. nine engines on the first stage, every single thing said on the stream (s/dragon/electron/g), camera angles and general quality...
2019-05-05T12:21:42 < Cracki> they aren't using intra compression, I see P-frame artefacts
2019-05-05T12:27:09 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron-beam_additive_manufacturing
2019-05-05T12:35:49 < Mangy_Dog> i read that as electron beam adictive manufacturing
2019-05-05T12:35:54 < Mangy_Dog> hmmmm cravings for those electrons
2019-05-05T12:36:13 < Cracki> you sound hungry
2019-05-05T12:36:30 < Mangy_Dog> tasty tasty electrons
2019-05-05T12:36:47 < Mangy_Dog> in fairness ive not had breakfast yet :p
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2019-05-05T12:56:48 < rajkosto> all my firefox addons went away today
2019-05-05T12:56:49 < rajkosto> very nice
2019-05-05T12:58:16 < jly> to the boneyard?
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2019-05-05T13:18:13 < BrainDamage> rajkosto: https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2019/05/04/update-regarding-add-ons-in-firefox/
2019-05-05T13:26:14 < jly> sounds like an aids operation
2019-05-05T13:26:20 < jly> :\
2019-05-05T14:05:59 < Steffanx> is jly alright?
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2019-05-05T15:42:59 < dongs> sup dongs
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2019-05-05T16:40:38 < catphish> Cracki: i write up what i'm trying to achieve https://github.com/catphish/amiga-floppy
2019-05-05T16:42:24 < Cracki> good good
2019-05-05T16:45:55 < catphish> spent most of the weekend working on restoring the amiga itself :)
2019-05-05T16:46:32 < catphish> it all works apart from one nasty flipflop that i've ordered a replacement for
2019-05-05T16:56:24 < Steffanx> Did you actually test all parts individually (as in manual input, checking the output) or did you just check the input and verified the output?
2019-05-05T17:16:15 < invzim> goddamnit, lcsc doesn't have all the parts I need for a proto
2019-05-05T17:19:36 < specing> whats the lcsc shipping like?
2019-05-05T17:19:56 < specing> Arrow has free shipping to me, but parts there are 1.5 to 2 times more expensive than LCSC
2019-05-05T17:23:57 < invzim> they changed, you get discounted shipping if you have a PCB order at jlcpcb
2019-05-05T17:25:14 < invzim> but I'm picking up some reels of stuff I hate to run out of, and the shipping is not expensive
2019-05-05T17:25:47 < invzim> A reel of 510 ohm 1% yaego for 4.5USD :)
2019-05-05T17:28:13 < catphish> Steffanx: i just looked at the inputs and outputs in-circuit
2019-05-05T17:30:27 < catphish> Steffanx: however since both inputs of this IC are good, and both outputs are bad, it seems reasonable to assume the IC is dead
2019-05-05T17:33:48 < Steffanx> True true, was just wondering
2019-05-05T17:35:12 < specing> invzim: Hahaha :) A whole reeel for 4.5 USD
2019-05-05T17:35:59 < specing> invzim: how much is the shipping for ~ $10 of components assuming I will submit a jlcpcb order for it?
2019-05-05T17:44:40 < catphish> Steffanx: i'm not really an expert with fixing these things, so somewhat guessing, it's also worth noting that this particular IC was quite physically damaged by a leaking battery, so that makes it likely too
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2019-05-05T18:39:53 < jadew> man... pop music has come a long way
2019-05-05T18:40:26 < jadew> the videos are so freaking good, it's crazy
2019-05-05T18:40:43 < jadew> you can tell real artists are behind them
2019-05-05T18:40:49 < mawk> real marketers*
2019-05-05T18:40:58 < mawk> good music is lyricsless music
2019-05-05T18:41:04 < jadew> mawk, real marketers hiring real artists
2019-05-05T18:41:21 < mawk> hiring neuroscientists to hack your brain
2019-05-05T18:41:25 < mawk> like all advertisers do
2019-05-05T18:41:39 < jadew> isn't that what art does anyway?
2019-05-05T18:41:49 < mawk> yeah I guess
2019-05-05T18:42:30 < jadew> some that are pure choreography are still mesmerizing
2019-05-05T18:42:53 < jadew> it's great we live in this age
2019-05-05T18:43:32 < jadew> 30 years ago peopele didn't have access to this much art
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2019-05-05T18:59:35 < jadew> mawk, is Stromae famous in France?
2019-05-05T19:00:39 < mawk> yes
2019-05-05T19:01:28 < mawk> pretty famous
2019-05-05T19:01:47 < jadew> he's a great artist
2019-05-05T19:02:02 < jadew> he's behind two of my fav. music videos
2019-05-05T19:02:39 < jadew> one is for his own music
2019-05-05T19:18:47 < Steffanx> what kind of vids is mr jadew referring to?
2019-05-05T19:18:55 < Steffanx> example?
2019-05-05T19:20:04 < jadew> muse - thought contagion
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2019-05-05T19:21:19 < jadew> dua lipa - idgaf - apparently stromae is behind the choreography
2019-05-05T19:23:20 < kakimir> it takes a genious to make a worldwide hit song with just 5-6 notes and about 5 words in lyrics
2019-05-05T19:23:50 < Steffanx> What i see in for example the first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA
2019-05-05T19:23:50 < kakimir> earbugs are simple
2019-05-05T19:24:15 < jadew> Steffanx, heh
2019-05-05T19:24:17 < Steffanx> First some beasty people, then a dancing group 
2019-05-05T19:25:44 < jadew> you have there the innocent and naive, then two conflicting ideologies, getting into a co-dependent dance
2019-05-05T19:25:56 < jadew> and he gets sucked into it too
2019-05-05T19:26:53 < jadew> and he's getting lured into it because of the attractiveness of the person holding them (read whatever you like into this)
2019-05-05T19:26:55 < jadew> pretty cool
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2019-05-05T19:28:01 < Steffanx> pretty boring :P
2019-05-05T19:28:22 < jadew> the second one I haven't deciphered yet, but it's just good - not sure what it is about it
2019-05-05T19:28:49 < jadew> Steffanx, heh, maybe, but I like the way it's done and the 80's feel
2019-05-05T19:28:55 < Steffanx> "deciphered" one can only properly do tat when the one that made it actually told you.
2019-05-05T19:29:05 < Steffanx> otherwise its just your interpretation
2019-05-05T19:29:20 < jadew> Steffanx, nah, some of them are very in your face
2019-05-05T19:29:38 < jadew> for example stromae - papoutai (the other one from him that I like)
2019-05-05T19:29:54 < jadew> it's not just abstract bullshit
2019-05-05T19:31:51 < jadew> some of them are very generic and simple, but they still manage to capture the essence of what they represent pretty well - not sure if knowingly
2019-05-05T19:32:31 < jadew> it could either be a deliberate act, or it could just be that they are the expression of the artist and he's not aware of why he feels it like that
2019-05-05T19:32:41 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
2019-05-05T19:33:34 < jadew> for example rita ora - let you love me
2019-05-05T19:34:24 < jadew> very simple, nothing spectacular, but damn... that's every party I've been to and fell in love at, or had fun with my friends at, when I was young and restless and everything felt great
2019-05-05T19:35:06 < mawk> papaoutai is child babbling for "dad where are you"
2019-05-05T19:35:07 < jadew> point being that they've gotten really good at capturing and expressing feelings
2019-05-05T19:35:13 < mawk> it's about a missing father or something
2019-05-05T19:35:13 < jadew> mawk, I know
2019-05-05T19:35:16 < jadew> yeah
2019-05-05T19:35:21 < jadew> missing father figure
2019-05-05T19:35:28 < mawk> it was on the radio 24/7
2019-05-05T19:35:44 < jadew> because it's great
2019-05-05T19:38:42 < Steffanx> if you say so
2019-05-05T19:39:28 < jadew> heh, don't know what happened to me, I started seeing music videos with different eyes lately
2019-05-05T19:39:45 < Steffanx> i dont watch musics videos.
2019-05-05T19:40:00 < jadew> I didn't used to either, because they were stupid
2019-05-05T19:41:08 < jadew> but something has changed
2019-05-05T19:41:31 < jadew> I guess they've finally decided to put all those money to good use and hire competent people
2019-05-05T19:43:16 < Steffanx> nothing changed, but you gi guess.
2019-05-05T19:43:23 < Steffanx> -g
2019-05-05T19:43:39 < jadew> maybe
2019-05-05T19:45:08 < Steffanx> when will you buy a cabrio?
2019-05-05T19:45:15 < jadew> when I turn 40
2019-05-05T19:45:30 < Steffanx> that's pretty soon right?
2019-05-05T19:45:41 < jadew> 6 years from now
2019-05-05T19:45:47 < jadew> not that soon
2019-05-05T19:46:22 < Steffanx> you get younger? i was convinced you were older than that
2019-05-05T19:46:47 < jadew> tbh, I'm not 100% sure, but I think I'm 34
2019-05-05T19:47:50 < jadew> I didn't pitch in when people were mentioning their ages :P
2019-05-05T19:50:25 < englishman> happy 20th birthday, optical mouse technology!
2019-05-05T19:50:32 < Steffanx> ty englishman
2019-05-05T19:51:05 < Steffanx> Greatest achievement during our millenial age?
2019-05-05T19:51:13 < Steffanx> era
2019-05-05T19:54:34 < englishman> that, and juicero
2019-05-05T19:55:05 < jadew> the optical mouse is a great technology
2019-05-05T19:55:25 < jadew> spared everyone a lot of frustration
2019-05-05T19:56:17 < jadew> they should give nobel prizes for this kind of thing too
2019-05-05T19:56:28 < Steffanx> dont you like your balls hairy and dusty?
2019-05-05T19:57:03 < jadew> I don't, and it's extremely difficult to remove it from them
2019-05-05T19:57:51 < mawk> my cat's hair go into the optical mouse sensor and mess it up
2019-05-05T19:57:55 < mawk> just like with a ball mouse
2019-05-05T19:58:47 < jadew> I've seen different designs for the hole and some were made to prevent that
2019-05-05T19:58:58 < jadew> mine doesn't collect any dust or hair at all
2019-05-05T19:59:56 < englishman> wow i have to upgrade my shoe's firmware
2019-05-05T20:01:55 < Steffanx> how smart is your watch englishman?
2019-05-05T20:02:09 < englishman> i have a pebble
2019-05-05T20:02:52 < jadew> I don't wear a watch, but I have a metawatch
2019-05-05T20:03:12 < jadew> not very smart, but came with a programming header
2019-05-05T20:03:48 < jadew> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MetaWatch_WDS111_(AU1000).jpg
2019-05-05T20:03:50 < jadew> this one
2019-05-05T20:07:24 < jadew> englishman, do you have to charge it every day?
2019-05-05T20:07:46 < englishman> no, like once or twice a week
2019-05-05T20:08:21 < jadew> not bad, but I'm sure I'd forget
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2019-05-05T20:23:51 < englishman> thorns last vacation https://vredd.it/files/moscow_hot_landing-x5r98fh63fw21.mp4
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2019-05-05T20:32:56 < Steffanx> damn its being thorn apart?
2019-05-05T20:35:02 < jadew> where's the rest of the video?
2019-05-05T20:36:06 < jadew> I'm surprised only 2 people died
2019-05-05T20:39:09 < catphish> very boring output: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/DKD838xxtg/ but yay for me because it's successfully reading all sectors of a track from a disk and printing the header for each
2019-05-05T20:39:10 < kakimir> nice landing
2019-05-05T20:39:29 < catphish> that is quite the landing
2019-05-05T20:40:58 < kakimir> main landing gear is not deployed or has been damaged
2019-05-05T20:41:04 < Thorn> attn catphish this guy is making replicas of ancient sound cards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGxismg-XbI 
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2019-05-05T20:53:18 < catphish> Thorn: that's pretty cool, i was reading about those yamaha synth chip they all use
2019-05-05T20:53:43 < catphish> i wonder if i could make my own amiga cards
2019-05-05T20:54:48 < catphish> best limit myself to 2 or 3 things at a time :)
2019-05-05T21:31:40 < jadew> this is interesting
2019-05-05T21:32:09 < jadew> I got a SMA torque wrench and I thought "wait... this is way too tight"
2019-05-05T21:32:32 < jadew> so I measured and it's a bit bellow what it should be
2019-05-05T21:35:03 < aandrew> really
2019-05-05T21:35:31 < aandrew> I have read a bit about RF connectors and apparently there are very similar but incompatible connectors where you can mate them but it ruins the female connector
2019-05-05T21:35:35 < jadew> yep, with this "insufficient" torque, I can't unscrew it by hand, at least not easily
2019-05-05T21:36:07 < aandrew> so I got my stlinkv3
2019-05-05T21:36:10 < aandrew> not sure what the bg deal is
2019-05-05T21:37:09 < jadew> aandrew, you've probably read about the precision connectors
2019-05-05T21:37:25 < englishman> not sure what the deal with v3 is either
2019-05-05T21:37:25 < jadew> after SMA you have 3.5 mm connectors which should mate fine
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2019-05-05T21:38:32 < jadew> but SMA is not precision, and it can ruin the 3.5 mm one
2019-05-05T21:39:44 < jadew> the funny thing is that the 3.5 mm ones were made specifically to mate with SMA multiple times
2019-05-05T21:39:47 < jadew> at least that's what I've read
2019-05-05T21:40:16 < aandrew> heh yeah I'm nowhere near the level of RF performance where I need to worry about torque on my SMA
2019-05-05T21:44:15 < qyx> sma <-> 3.5mm connectors?
2019-05-05T21:44:22 < qyx> isn't sma somewhere around 6mm?
2019-05-05T21:45:03 < jadew> that's the dielectric diameter
2019-05-05T21:46:45 < qyx> uh
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2019-05-05T22:08:38 < bitmask> guten tag
2019-05-05T22:09:06 < Steffanx> hello welcome
2019-05-05T22:09:17 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/gallery/BiGcIYz anyone have any idea what these are?
2019-05-05T22:09:56 < jadew> could be anything
2019-05-05T22:10:04 < jadew> regulators, opamps, comparators, etc
2019-05-05T22:10:38 < jadew> you can identify them
2019-05-05T22:11:11 < qyx> www.ti.com/lit/gpn/SN74AHC1G00
2019-05-05T22:11:16 < qyx> Mangy_Dog: ^
2019-05-05T22:11:22 < qyx> see device markings in the datasheet
2019-05-05T22:11:31 < qyx> (A003, A00G, A00J,
2019-05-05T22:11:32 < qyx> A00L, A00S)
2019-05-05T22:12:07 < qyx> but idk, they may be anything
2019-05-05T22:18:06 < bitmask> sop/soic packages and their millions of derivatives are going to destroy me
2019-05-05T22:18:14 < bitmask> damn labels
2019-05-05T22:19:02 < bitmask> I think I can get away with thin and wide packages in different pin counts, they will look similar enough
2019-05-05T22:23:22 < Mangy_Dog> nand gate kinda rings a bell
2019-05-05T22:23:39 < Mangy_Dog> though still not 100% sure
2019-05-05T22:23:51 < Mangy_Dog> certainly rings more of a bell tha a low voltage detector
2019-05-05T22:23:58 < Mangy_Dog> that some one else sugested
2019-05-05T22:33:10 < Steffanx> Next question: Are the parts wort your time or can you just buy new one? 
2019-05-05T22:33:52 < Steffanx> *worth
2019-05-05T22:34:21 < Mangy_Dog> sure theyre prolly pennies
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2019-05-05T22:34:29 < Mangy_Dog> im just trying to organise my loose stuff into bins
2019-05-05T22:35:49 < Thorn> is anyone using JST connectors for swd/jtag?
2019-05-05T22:36:19 < Thorn> like PH
2019-05-05T22:37:18 < bitmask_> http://www.ic-smd.com/sot23.asp?g=47678&s=A003
2019-05-05T22:37:24 < bitmask_> any chance its a led driver Mangy_Dog 
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2019-05-05T22:38:15 < Mangy_Dog> was about to reply
2019-05-05T22:38:16 < Steffanx> What kind of accent do you have Mangy_Dog? It sounds so unjankee-ish. More like british.
2019-05-05T22:38:27 < Mangy_Dog> yeah im a brit
2019-05-05T22:38:31 < Steffanx> (me is watching your trycoder vid)
2019-05-05T22:38:34 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2019-05-05T22:38:56 < Mangy_Dog> it might be a backlight driver/buck regulator
2019-05-05T22:38:59 < Steffanx> oh i thought you were in the yankeeland
2019-05-05T22:39:02 < Mangy_Dog> but ive already found that one i had before
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2019-05-05T22:39:12 < bitmask> damn internet
2019-05-05T22:39:55 < Mangy_Dog> hehe bit
2019-05-05T22:40:20 < Mangy_Dog> bit it might be a buck regulator chip as part of a lcd led backlight
2019-05-05T22:40:27 < Mangy_Dog> but not 100% sure of that either
2019-05-05T22:40:36 < Mangy_Dog> as im pretty sure I already found that chip i use dbefore
2019-05-05T22:41:12 < bitmask> your problem is giving me new drive to keep working on my organization system, so thanks for that :)
2019-05-05T22:41:32 < Mangy_Dog> and that one was a 6 pin sot
2019-05-05T22:41:38 < Mangy_Dog> heheh
2019-05-05T22:41:41 < bitmask> which one?
2019-05-05T22:41:52 < Mangy_Dog> yeah me room is a big mess at the moment trying to sort everything out
2019-05-05T22:41:54 < Mangy_Dog> umm
2019-05-05T22:42:01 < bitmask> yours or the one I linked
2019-05-05T22:42:17 < Mangy_Dog> RT9293B
2019-05-05T22:42:19 < bitmask> oh you mean the old one
2019-05-05T22:42:31 < Mangy_Dog> na in a design ive done in the past 
2019-05-05T22:42:37 < Mangy_Dog> that was the sot i used before and that was 6 pin
2019-05-05T22:42:41 < Mangy_Dog> the one im struggling with is 5 pin
2019-05-05T22:42:46 < bitmask> right
2019-05-05T22:46:12 < bitmask> I ordered a sot transistor assortment and its 10 each of 21 values, they gave me 11 each but most of the 11th ones have been sliced in half
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2019-05-05T22:47:26 < Mangy_Dog> Im going to just mark them as a nor gate, and hope i never need them
2019-05-05T22:47:47 < bitmask> in that case why not just throw em out, or experiment on them now
2019-05-05T22:48:37 < Mangy_Dog> no sot breakouts to test with and not really prepared. Im also a bit of a horder (hense the need to organise) dont like throwing stuff out
2019-05-05T22:49:18 < bitmask> yea I am the same, I am mostly just collecting components for collecting's sake. its fun :)
2019-05-05T22:49:35 < bitmask> but if I cant figure out what something small like that is, Id probably get rid of it because it would ruin my organization
2019-05-05T22:51:23 < bitmask> ordering some smd breakout boards sounds like a good idea, I might be able to use those
2019-05-05T22:57:09 < Mangy_Dog> Thanks for youre help btw :)
2019-05-05T23:04:56 < bitmask> I dont think I was any help but no problem :P
2019-05-05T23:05:08 < Mangy_Dog> whats worse some one just mentioned it might have been an opamp
2019-05-05T23:05:15 < Mangy_Dog> which also rings bells
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2019-05-05T23:14:50 < bitmask> wow
2019-05-05T23:14:52 < bitmask> this looks pretty neat
2019-05-05T23:14:53 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BSIDE-ESR02PRO-Digital-Transistor-SMD-Components-Tester-Diode-Triode-Capacitance-Inductance-Multimeter-ESR-Meter/32832292103.html
2019-05-05T23:15:17 < bitmask> are these things accurate enough to differentiate a 5% from a 1% resistor/cap
2019-05-05T23:19:05 < bitmask> 10 mOhm
2019-05-05T23:19:19 < bitmask> resolution, not sure about accuracy
2019-05-05T23:24:43 < jadew> nice enclosure
2019-05-05T23:25:16 < jadew> probably using the same firmware as all the other ones tho
2019-05-05T23:25:21 < jadew> and no zif socket
2019-05-05T23:25:59 < catphish> so, how easy is it to use stm32 as a usb device (peripheral) with minimal knowledge of how USB works?
2019-05-05T23:28:34 < bitmask> id rather have the smd pads than a zif socket
2019-05-05T23:47:30 < fenugrec> catphish, if you're just copying a CDC-ACM example project, easy.
2019-05-05T23:49:56 < catphish> i'll try to find some examples, i ultimately want to do mass storage
2019-05-05T23:50:54 < catphish> fond a tutorial, i'll read this http://kevincuzner.com/2018/01/29/bare-metal-stm32-writing-a-usb-driver/
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2019-05-05T23:58:10 < Steffanx> Always take a look at zyps stuff catphish. ;)
2019-05-05T23:59:11 < catphish> oh yeah, zyp made a usb thingemy
2019-05-05T23:59:16 < catphish> maybe he should write the code for me
--- Day changed Mon May 06 2019
2019-05-06T00:00:22 < Steffanx> There is a mass storage example in his repo
2019-05-06T00:00:55 < catphish> awesome
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2019-05-06T00:02:11 < catphish> where's his codes?
2019-05-06T00:03:58 < Steffanx> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks_demo/
2019-05-06T00:04:09 < Steffanx> Dont know what the state is though 
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2019-05-06T00:07:44 < fenugrec> catphish, there's also some MSC code in the locm3 examples, no idea of the state either https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-examples/tree/master/examples/stm32/f4/stm32f4-discovery/usb_msc
2019-05-06T00:10:20 < Steffanx> And there is that
2019-05-06T00:15:25 < catphish> i get the impression usb is going to be hard unless i start over with heavy libraries
2019-05-06T00:18:08 < fenugrec> usb is hard
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2019-05-06T00:30:11 < karlp> it's as hard as you make it.
2019-05-06T00:33:39 < catphish> how so i make it really really easy?
2019-05-06T00:33:44 < catphish> *do
2019-05-06T00:45:33 < zyp> sup?
2019-05-06T00:46:12 < Cracki> guess not :>
2019-05-06T00:47:40 < catphish> zyp: i was asking about USB, how hard is it to make a usb device?
2019-05-06T00:47:48 < rajkosto> with laks pretty easy
2019-05-06T00:47:56 < rajkosto> use laks for great success
2019-05-06T00:48:04 < zyp> from scratch? not all that hard
2019-05-06T00:48:22 < catphish> i prefer from scratch because i've never used a framework with stm32
2019-05-06T00:48:40 < catphish> but if it's too hard i'll have to reconsider and move my project to some framework
2019-05-06T00:48:43 < zyp> it's just a little bit of a threshold, since you need to implement a bunch of standard commands that are used for enumeration
2019-05-06T00:49:07 < zyp> but it's not all that hard
2019-05-06T00:49:13 < catphish> zyp: do you know any examples that do this with nothing more than the stmcube headers?
2019-05-06T00:49:18 < zyp> no.
2019-05-06T00:49:23 < catphish> shame
2019-05-06T00:50:13 < zyp> but I guess you should ask yourself, do you really want to invent another usb stack?
2019-05-06T00:50:28 < catphish> well that depends how complicated it is
2019-05-06T00:50:47 < catphish> i mean, i "invented another serial uart stack"
2019-05-06T00:50:50 < zyp> depends what you're gonna use it for
2019-05-06T00:51:09 < catphish> because that was just 2 registers
2019-05-06T00:51:32 < zyp> and how flexible you're gonna make it, of course
2019-05-06T00:51:59 < rajkosto> serial isnt really a stack
2019-05-06T00:52:04 < rajkosto> its just write a register, poll a flag
2019-05-06T00:52:19 < rajkosto> you can do more complicated things like DMA to it and activate interrupts but thats it
2019-05-06T00:52:21 < catphish> rajkosto: well sure, but i have no idea what usb involves
2019-05-06T00:52:30 < rajkosto> for usb you have to respond to specific situations in a specific way and theres a bunch of them
2019-05-06T00:52:41 < zyp> my usb stack supports multiple hardware drivers, I managed to get it up and going on the nrf usb core in an afternoon or two
2019-05-06T00:52:45 < rajkosto> better to let the library handle all that boilerplate 
2019-05-06T00:52:54 < rajkosto> and just focus on parsing the user packets you care about
2019-05-06T00:53:03 < Thorn> catphish: https://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb1.shtml http://www.usbmadesimple.co.uk/
2019-05-06T00:53:18 < zyp> yeah, that usb in a nutshell is fairly useful
2019-05-06T00:54:16 < Thorn> catphish: if you're going to implement usb yourself read about control transfers and enumeration very carefully
2019-05-06T00:54:29 < zyp> to make something from scratch that can successfully enumerate, you first need code that can send and receive packets, so you can work on them
2019-05-06T00:54:34 < catphish> zyp: well specifically i want to provide both a mass storage device of fixed capacity and a CDC do do serial-type stuff
2019-05-06T00:54:49 < zyp> packets come in three varieties: SETUP, IN and OUT
2019-05-06T00:55:02 < zyp> the two former are host to device, the latter is device to host
2019-05-06T00:55:20 < zyp> SETUP packets are used to initiate control requests
2019-05-06T00:55:45 < catphish> zyp: so basically the hardware just hands you a raw frame and you have to do everyting?
2019-05-06T00:55:51 < zyp> to successfully enumerate, you need to implement three control requests; GET_DESCRIPTOR, SET_ADDRESS and SET_CONFIGURATION
2019-05-06T00:55:54 < zyp> yes
2019-05-06T00:56:21 < zyp> GET_DESCRIPTOR is easy, it's just asking for a blob of data
2019-05-06T00:56:25 < catphish> i guess that's not so hard when you're making the device side
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2019-05-06T00:57:06 < zyp> descriptors come in many varieties, but at the bare minimum you need a device descriptor containing some id information and a configuration descriptor containing a list of functions your device supports/implements
2019-05-06T00:57:27 < zyp> you can generate both of these with external tools and just stuff them in as a binary blob
2019-05-06T00:57:59 < zyp> handling SET_ADDRESS consists of telling the usb hardware to listen for a new address
2019-05-06T00:58:29 < catphish> i have some idea of the enumeration process at least
2019-05-06T00:58:52 < zyp> handling SET_CONFIGURATION consists of configuring the other endpoints to handle the type of traffic the configuration descriptor told the host you'll do
2019-05-06T00:59:05 < catphish> i think what i'll do is get an empty stack set up, start looking at frames and see how far i get
2019-05-06T00:59:18 < zyp> once you've got all that in place, you'll have an enumerating device
2019-05-06T00:59:21 < rajkosto> its really annoying trying to make your own stack from scratch without a hardware USB interceptor
2019-05-06T00:59:31 < zyp> yes, that is true
2019-05-06T00:59:58 < zyp> wireshark with usbmon will give you some idea of what's going on, but it's not seeing the full picture
2019-05-06T01:00:34 < zyp> catphish, so which hardware would you be implementing for?
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2019-05-06T01:01:26 < zyp> rajkosto, so anyway, how much have you been using laks? :)
2019-05-06T01:01:37 < rajkosto> 0
2019-05-06T01:01:42 < zyp> oh, heh
2019-05-06T01:02:15 < rajkosto> you gave me a usb sample to use when i get back into making stm32 stuff so i will then
2019-05-06T01:02:21 < zyp> right
2019-05-06T01:02:23 < rajkosto> seemed easy enough
2019-05-06T01:03:05 < zyp> catphish, from a USB perspective, mass storage is pretty easy
2019-05-06T01:04:13 < zyp> MSC BBB is using a pair of bulk endpoints, i.e. one IN and one OUT, and is just sending SCSI commands and responses over them (with a thin wrapper)
2019-05-06T01:06:01 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/cardio/tree/main.cpp#n268 <- I've got a tiny implementation here, it's pretty shitty but it works well enough I'm using it in a shipping product :p
2019-05-06T01:06:40 < zyp> a bunch of the commands just returns canned responses from binary blob buffers
2019-05-06T01:07:41 < zyp> if I ever need to do anything more mass storage, I'll be separating the MSC layer and the SCSI layer
2019-05-06T01:12:36 < Thorn> btw is it difficult to do a virtual file system over usb mass storage? you'd have to translate LBAs into file offsets and simulate FAT32 structures and their locations in the virtual disk etc.?
2019-05-06T01:12:43 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pube5Aynsls
2019-05-06T01:12:49 < catphish> zyp: sounds like i can manage it, thank you for the explanation
2019-05-06T01:15:22 < catphish> i got a blue pill, will solder its header pins tomorrow so i can look up serial, and then will try it out
2019-05-06T01:16:11 < zyp> catphish, it's just a question of scope
2019-05-06T01:16:20 < zyp> making a limited functionality stack is easy enough
2019-05-06T01:16:36 < zyp> making a major thing to support a bunch of hardwares and a bunch of classes is a major project
2019-05-06T01:18:26 < catphish> in this case the scope is strictly limited, a single fixed capacity mass storage, and something to stream bytes which i assume will be CDC
2019-05-06T01:18:59 < rajkosto> so youre making a composite device
2019-05-06T01:19:13 < rajkosto> those are just all in the  descriptor 
2019-05-06T01:19:22 < rajkosto> different endpoints are used for the different functions
2019-05-06T01:19:49 < catphish> right, so one device, 2 endpoints, one msd, one cdc
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2019-05-06T01:20:58 < zyp> no
2019-05-06T01:21:19 < zyp> like I said, MSC BBB uses a pair of endpoints
2019-05-06T01:22:03 < catphish> oh, send and receive are separate, you did say
2019-05-06T01:22:08 < zyp> CDC ACM also uses a pair of endpoints, plus a third endpoint for out of band notifications
2019-05-06T01:22:11 < zyp> yes
2019-05-06T01:22:16 < rajkosto> an endpoint can only be IN or OUT
2019-05-06T01:22:19 < rajkosto> you cant bidir on one.
2019-05-06T01:22:27 < zyp> only EP0 is bidirectional, all other endpoints are unidirectional
2019-05-06T01:22:47 < zyp> IN 1 and OUT 1 are independent of another
2019-05-06T01:22:55 < rajkosto> just call em 0x81
2019-05-06T01:22:58 < catphish> and ep0 is for setup?
2019-05-06T01:23:27 < zyp> EP0 is for control requests
2019-05-06T01:23:36 < catphish> ok
2019-05-06T01:23:49 < zyp> a control request starts with a SETUP packet, saying which request it is and what direction it is
2019-05-06T01:24:28 < zyp> then there's an optional data stage which consists of either an IN or an OUT transfer
2019-05-06T01:24:53 < zyp> then there's a status stage, which consists of an empty packet of the opposite direction of the data stage
2019-05-06T01:25:11 < catphish> so this stm32 supports 1 bidi endpoint, 5 in and 5 out
2019-05-06T01:25:23 < rajkosto> guess which one is the bidi
2019-05-06T01:25:28 < catphish> which suggests there is some hardware offload of at least some of the process
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2019-05-06T01:26:11 < zyp> the term «transfer» means one or more packets that makes up one frame
2019-05-06T01:26:28 < catphish> anyway, i'll get my blue pill running and start looking at some usp packets tomorrow
2019-05-06T01:26:45 < catphish> i suspect it'll make sense once i'm looking at it properly
2019-05-06T01:26:49 < zyp> which stm32 are you looking at?
2019-05-06T01:26:56 < catphish> l433
2019-05-06T01:27:14 < zyp> and what stm32 is on the bluepill you're referring to?
2019-05-06T01:27:30 < catphish> i think that's an f4
2019-05-06T01:27:50 < zyp> it's not one of those cheap f1 things?
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2019-05-06T01:28:36 < catphish> yes, you're right, it's an f103
2019-05-06T01:28:48 < catphish> garbage but has usb
2019-05-06T01:29:06 < Mangy_Dog> f103 isnt garbage
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2019-05-06T01:29:08 < Mangy_Dog> not at all
2019-05-06T01:29:15 < Mangy_Dog> amazing chip
2019-05-06T01:29:15 < catphish> i had assumed the usb stack would be comparable across all, but shoud check
2019-05-06T01:29:27 < Mangy_Dog> anyway bed nn all
2019-05-06T01:29:29 < zyp> catphish, the thing is, it has a completely different usb core :)
2019-05-06T01:29:38 < catphish> oh :( shame
2019-05-06T01:29:57 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, garbage is relative, but seen relative to the whole stm32 family, f1 is pretty garbage
2019-05-06T01:30:03 < Cracki> embrace the HAL
2019-05-06T01:30:07 < zyp> I'm avoiding it if I can
2019-05-06T01:30:17 < Cracki> embrace the library of your choice
2019-05-06T01:30:36 < Cracki> a library isn't a framework, no fear of overbearing structure
2019-05-06T01:30:44 < catphish> the f103 would actually do for my project
2019-05-06T01:31:20 < catphish> oh, probably need more sram
2019-05-06T01:31:23 < zyp> catphish, f1, f3, f0 and l0 is using a fairly simple usb core, it has like seven registers plus one per endpoint, so hardware is fairly easy to wrap your head around
2019-05-06T01:32:14 < zyp> f2, f4 and the other ones that are USB OTG capable are using the dwc_otg core, licensed from synopsys
2019-05-06T01:32:29 < Mangy_Dog> f103 is great for 99% of low and medium speed embedded projects. Its only lacking is hundreds of IO, if you need hundreds of IO. Its more power efficiant that atmega, while maintaining a far higher clock speed... Also higher accurate ADC built in usb as you guys mentioned...
2019-05-06T01:32:35 < Mangy_Dog> and its cheap
2019-05-06T01:32:39 < Mangy_Dog> damn damn cheap
2019-05-06T01:32:45 < Mangy_Dog> far cheaper than atmega
2019-05-06T01:33:13 < Thorn> 103 is pretty expensive these days, no?
2019-05-06T01:33:18 < zyp> dwc_otg have like 30 registers regarding device mode and another four per endpoint, judging by a glance at the register map
2019-05-06T01:33:26 < Thorn> and it's about to go nrnd according to rumors
2019-05-06T01:33:33 < Mangy_Dog> last time i checked prices was maybe summer last year
2019-05-06T01:33:33 < catphish> Thorn: yeah, but china sell these dev boards for less then the cost of the chip
2019-05-06T01:33:39 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, yeah, sure, but we're not comparing to atmega
2019-05-06T01:33:51 < Mangy_Dog> but back then from china.... you could get a f103 for about a third of the price of a atmega329p
2019-05-06T01:33:59 < Thorn> f0, l0, f401 would be more modern and mostly cheaper
2019-05-06T01:34:05 < zyp> yeah
2019-05-06T01:34:20 < zyp> I'm using l0 rather than f1 for simple/cheap designs
2019-05-06T01:35:06 < zyp> before l0 was a thing, I used f3
2019-05-06T01:35:09 < Mangy_Dog> the f401 is a good chip too
2019-05-06T01:35:14 < Mangy_Dog> but its a different class of chip
2019-05-06T01:35:29 < zyp> for more complex things I'd look at f407
2019-05-06T01:35:34 < catphish> i use l0 or l4 by default depending on performance needs, never even looked at f series for some reason
2019-05-06T01:35:36 < Mangy_Dog> its for higher end more power hungry applications
2019-05-06T01:35:40 < Thorn> f401 is close to 103 in most aspects actually
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2019-05-06T01:36:01 < Mangy_Dog> if i remember correctly 401 has a dedicated floating point calculator
2019-05-06T01:36:05 < Mangy_Dog> f103 doesnt
2019-05-06T01:36:09 < bitmask> well that was a waste.  Got dressed and all ready to go make some deliveries and as I got to my car it went from lightly raining to pouring.  I aint no mailman
2019-05-06T01:36:12 < Thorn> for low power I wouldn't use either
2019-05-06T01:36:16 < catphish> in any case, if i spend my time choosing a mcu from ST's range, i'd never do any actual work
2019-05-06T01:36:20 < Mangy_Dog> also f401 isnt a low power mcu
2019-05-06T01:36:28 < catphish> so i have settled on an l433
2019-05-06T01:36:46 < zyp> catphish, from my perspective the L line would be useful for battery powered stuff, which I haven't done yet :)
2019-05-06T01:36:56 < zyp> only using l0 because f0 is shit
2019-05-06T01:37:03 < Thorn> l433 is quite good except perhaps price
2019-05-06T01:37:06 < catphish> the l0 was amazing in my rfid device
2019-05-06T01:37:06 < bitmask> f0 is shit?
2019-05-06T01:37:08 < Mangy_Dog> anyway really i am going to bed now :D so nn
2019-05-06T01:37:16 < bitmask> why did I just order some then? :(
2019-05-06T01:37:26 < zyp> bitmask, more like cortex-m0 is shit
2019-05-06T01:37:34 < bitmask> any reasons behind that?
2019-05-06T01:37:43 < zyp> cortex-m0+ is adding the stuff cortex-m0 is missing
2019-05-06T01:38:21 < zyp> cortex-m0 is missing some useful registers in the SCB block, most importantly to me SCB_VTOR
2019-05-06T01:39:14 < bitmask> ehh I dont think I'm advanced enough to notice, I'm sure these f072 and f030 will be fine for basic stuff instead of using say a atmega
2019-05-06T01:39:46 < zyp> SCB_VTOR lets you relocate the vector table, which you really want to do if you're putting more than one firmware on your device, e.g. both a bootloader and the normal application image
2019-05-06T01:40:01 < zyp> there's workarounds, but they are ugly
2019-05-06T01:40:02 < bitmask> I see
2019-05-06T01:40:10 < zyp> and I use custom bootloaders for my stuff
2019-05-06T01:40:24 < zyp> which means that SCB_VTOR is pretty important to me
2019-05-06T01:41:08 < zyp> that said, now stm32g0 exists, which also is based on cortex-m0+
2019-05-06T01:41:30 < catphish> what i actually need is USB, 32KB SRAM, and the faster the clock the better, ideally 80MHz but anything over 40 will likely be fine
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2019-05-06T01:41:32 < zyp> so I might go for g0 over l0 next time I'm doing a project like that
2019-05-06T01:41:51 < bitmask> oh, is l0 based on m0+?
2019-05-06T01:41:56 < zyp> yes
2019-05-06T01:42:01 < bitmask> I should do some reading
2019-05-06T01:42:03 < zyp> f0 is m0, l0 and g0 is m0+
2019-05-06T01:42:24 < bitmask> l is for low power, what is g targeted for
2019-05-06T01:42:57 < catphish> it actually looks like a much more basic mcu would do for me, even an f1
2019-05-06T01:44:52 < zyp> the problem with f1 is that it's old and lacks all the improvements that the newer families got
2019-05-06T01:45:12 < catphish> well thats what people say
2019-05-06T01:45:14 < zyp> most importantly the GPIO, wrt. AF mapping
2019-05-06T01:45:18 < catphish> oh, i also need 5v tolerance
2019-05-06T01:45:57 < zyp> if you're gonna use a bunch of peripheral IO, figuring out how to make that go up on f1 is painful
2019-05-06T01:46:32 < catphish> ill have a quick plan in cubemx and see
2019-05-06T01:48:31 < catphish> is lqfp48 and lqfp48 7x7 the same thing?
2019-05-06T01:48:56 < zyp> sounds like one is the subset of the other
2019-05-06T01:51:16 < catphish> l4 also seem quite cheap
2019-05-06T01:52:08 < catphish> i'll persist with l4 and read the manual about its usb registers
2019-05-06T01:52:21 < catphish> especially since i have a board designed for it now :)
2019-05-06T01:52:46 < zyp> the dwc_otg core can be a handful though
2019-05-06T01:53:05 < zyp> on the other hand, it's better designed
2019-05-06T01:54:32 < zyp> I finally found time to pour concrete today: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/tlJii.jpg
2019-05-06T01:54:50 < catphish> this is what i'm doing: https://github.com/catphish/amiga-floppy
2019-05-06T01:55:50 < catphish> the world's simplest pcb design too https://i.imgur.com/xlsLqgP.png
2019-05-06T01:56:02 -!- e_linq [~yaaic@185.3.172.237] has joined ##stm32
2019-05-06T01:56:14 < e_linq> hi people
2019-05-06T01:56:30 < catphish> hello mr e_linq
2019-05-06T01:57:19 < e_linq> its are stm32 arm developers channel?
2019-05-06T01:57:55 < catphish> can't really do stm32 without arm development
2019-05-06T01:58:01 < catphish> so here
2019-05-06T01:58:36 < e_linq> sorry
2019-05-06T01:58:38 < catphish> anyway now i'm going to go learn some 68k
2019-05-06T01:59:03 < zyp> those pieces of rebar will be sticking up like that until I stack the rest of the wall, and I don't want any kids to hurt themselves on it or something, so I stuck a bunch of tennis balls on them: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/HgXzW.jpg
2019-05-06T01:59:08 < e_linq> its my first time in irc
2019-05-06T01:59:31 < zyp> e_linq, welcome
2019-05-06T01:59:37 < catphish> e_linq: that's ok, welcome, the best approach is to ask clear questions and people will usually try to help :)
2019-05-06T01:59:45 < e_linq> and i am from russia
2019-05-06T01:59:49 < e_linq> )))
2019-05-06T02:00:16 < e_linq> i am are stm32 developer
2019-05-06T02:01:46 < e_linq> its already a 9 am,and i trying to sleep
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2019-05-06T02:02:20 < zyp> that's how it is when you get on the stm32
2019-05-06T02:02:38  * specing takes away e_linq's nearly empty bottle of vodka
2019-05-06T02:03:43 < e_linq> exactly
2019-05-06T02:04:30 < e_linq> i try to debug thru swd
2019-05-06T02:07:53 < e_linq> last time i used segger RTT
2019-05-06T02:08:11 < e_linq> hmm
2019-05-06T02:08:20 < e_linq> all sleeping?
2019-05-06T02:16:31 < e_linq> heey
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2019-05-06T02:21:54 < specing> e_linq: well
2019-05-06T02:22:02 < specing> Use Ada and you won't need to debug :)
2019-05-06T02:22:26 < e_linq> ahah
2019-05-06T02:22:46 < e_linq> i dont know ada syntax
2019-05-06T02:23:06 < e_linq> in the past,maybe
2019-05-06T02:23:45 < mawk> à dAda sur mon bidet
2019-05-06T02:31:33 < Cracki> uh, that device is not for that purpose
2019-05-06T02:31:49 < Cracki> or is it
2019-05-06T02:32:03 < mawk> which device ?
2019-05-06T02:32:07 < Cracki> bidet
2019-05-06T02:32:13 < mawk> yeah it's for what you think
2019-05-06T02:32:22 < Cracki> for washing, but not for what comes before it
2019-05-06T02:32:29 < mawk> yes for washing
2019-05-06T02:33:16 < Cracki> maybe google translate is shit about translating https://fr.wikibooks.org/wiki/Comptines/%C3%80_dada,_sur_mon_bidet
2019-05-06T02:35:06 < mawk> in that song bidet means donkey I guess
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2019-05-06T04:37:12 < Cracki> lol the stlink clones I got from ali just now contain "CKS32F" chips
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2019-05-06T05:02:21 < specing> Which wire to board connectors do you people use? Does anyone use JST-XH? If so, where do you buy them? What tool are you using for crimping wires to them?
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2019-05-06T05:12:55 < specing> I've been looking at LCSC and I'm only finding the board mount (and many many of them all marked XH series from JST), but no wire-side connectors and no pins
2019-05-06T05:14:52 < dongs> jesus man.
2019-05-06T05:14:56 < dongs> nobody here crimps JST-XH
2019-05-06T05:15:01 < dongs> i let china do it for like $1/100 wires
2019-05-06T05:15:17 < dongs> but yeah i think zyp uses XH in his arcin boards
2019-05-06T05:15:21 < dongs> 10+ connectors per board
2019-05-06T05:15:38 < dongs> and he buys pre-crimped shit with XH on one end and spade on the other
2019-05-06T05:16:05 < dongs> the chinaclone XHs are like in bags of 2k pcs for cheap as shit
2019-05-06T05:16:38 < dongs> i tried crimping shit myself with the jap crimping tool it was a complete waste of time
2019-05-06T05:16:54 < dongs> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10219
2019-05-06T05:16:55 < dongs> this
2019-05-06T05:19:46 < specing> hmmm
2019-05-06T05:20:12 < specing> yeah, but what do I do if I need 1m of wire on the other side?
2019-05-06T05:22:20 < dongs> yeaH?
2019-05-06T05:22:25 < dongs> thas what zyps shit is
2019-05-06T05:22:36 < dongs> XH on one end, like 0.5 or 1m of wire, then spades
2019-05-06T05:23:15 < dongs> hmm
2019-05-06T05:23:27 < dongs> rageberry cmio3 .brd file uses allegro17 format
2019-05-06T05:23:30 < dongs> what the fuck
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2019-05-06T05:25:51 < dongs> hmm im gonna need 64butt win7 install for this
2019-05-06T05:25:53 < dongs> gay
2019-05-06T05:26:01 < specing> Lol
2019-05-06T05:26:16 < dongs> yeah i dont want cadence trash on a real machine
2019-05-06T05:26:18 < dongs> VM only
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2019-05-06T05:31:05 < specing> post #10 https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?666721-Where-can-I-find-a-JST-connector 
2019-05-06T05:31:16 < specing> like actual part numbers! 
2019-05-06T05:32:31 < dongs> um, yeah , those are on JST website
2019-05-06T05:32:37 < dongs> are you surprised>
2019-05-06T05:32:41 < dongs> i thought you knew at least that much
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2019-05-06T06:22:05 < Cracki> specing, https://dirtypcbs.com/store/cables
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2019-05-06T06:32:25 < Cracki> oooh I wonder what their price is @1k machines http://www.wire-processor.com/product_category/Full-Automatic-Crimping-Machines_2627.html
2019-05-06T06:38:35 < dongs>  < Cracki> specing, https://dirtypcbs.com/store/cables
2019-05-06T06:38:36 < dongs> haha wow.
2019-05-06T06:38:42 < dongs> web 5.0 hipster wire configurator
2019-05-06T06:38:53 < Cracki> it's awesome eh
2019-05-06T06:39:19 < Cracki> it even prevents me from doing interesting things like idc to ribbon to jst
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2019-05-06T06:59:14 < dongs> nice
2019-05-06T06:59:17 < dongs> diodes shit worked
2019-05-06T06:59:30 < dongs> now this crap standbys at 11uA and wakes up by any keypress
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2019-05-06T09:00:40 < qyx> this moscow airplane, where the hell are firefighters
2019-05-06T09:01:00 < qyx> it landed in fire and nobody around
2019-05-06T09:01:03 < dongs> drinking vodka
2019-05-06T09:04:27 < ohsix> sup
2019-05-06T09:05:43 < ohsix> dongs: you know where to get REAL HOT rfid stuff?
2019-05-06T09:06:14 < ohsix> like toolchains for the asics that can do a bunch of stuff but are usually fused & factory programmed before anyone sees anything
2019-05-06T09:07:22 < ohsix> hm there is that digikey of china i've been meaning to check out
2019-05-06T09:12:25 < ohsix> that i can't remember the name of
2019-05-06T09:13:08 < ohsix> lcsc
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2019-05-06T09:42:44 < ohsix> hm i kind of assumed they had some more smarts, kind of like smart cards or sim toolkit poop
2019-05-06T09:44:21 < qyx> I am looking for some documented smarts too
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2019-05-06T11:08:54 < catphish> i just realised my l4 nucleo has usb support, i just need to hack up a usb cable to connect to it
2019-05-06T11:30:34 < dongs> oh huh.. nucleo64 doesnt have a USB socket on it for target huh
2019-05-06T11:30:46 < qyx> no
2019-05-06T11:30:58 < dongs> i always thought it did, maybe im tihnking the bigger one
2019-05-06T11:44:20 < qyx> so XH are cheap in china?
2019-05-06T11:44:24 < dongs> very yeah
2019-05-06T11:44:40 < dongs> i forgot wat zyp pays for the shells/connectors but its something ridiculous like $20 @ 2k or someshit
2019-05-06T11:44:46 < dongs> for 4pin stuff
2019-05-06T11:44:49 < qyx> O_o
2019-05-06T11:45:08 < dongs> they're obviously not real JST but they work fine
2019-05-06T11:45:22 < qyx> yeah it doesn't matter if the somewhat ~fit
2019-05-06T11:45:22 < dongs> and same size/footprint etc.
2019-05-06T11:45:27 < qyx> *they
2019-05-06T11:46:32 < jly> lol at the people grabbing all their carry on luggage in that plane crash while a bunch of other passengers burn to death
2019-05-06T11:46:41 < jly> society today
2019-05-06T11:47:08 < qyx> 100pcs jst sh with wires for $9, not bad
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2019-05-06T12:40:26 < Thorn> dragon docking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcCbQYzzPwM
2019-05-06T12:46:02 < jly> sfw?
2019-05-06T12:54:57 < Mangy_Dog> its not that kind of docking :p
2019-05-06T12:55:53 < jly> oh
2019-05-06T13:42:03 < englishman> dongs: no user usb. maybe try a msp430 launchpad? the debugger and user usb are connected to a single microusb plug via 4 port ti usb hub.
2019-05-06T13:43:22 < englishman> Thorn: is this the first paid resupply mission?
2019-05-06T13:49:52 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWNJuq_ket4 musics
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2019-05-06T13:57:37 < karlp> englishman: how does that work with a hub?
2019-05-06T13:58:14 < englishman> device only
2019-05-06T13:58:56 < karlp> no, I mean, one port, debugger and target.
2019-05-06T13:59:12 < karlp> oh, nvm. I'm dumb.
2019-05-06T13:59:18 < englishman> how does it work, or how well does it work?
2019-05-06T13:59:28 < englishman> or that :)
2019-05-06T13:59:29 < karlp> was thinking of things backwards.
2019-05-06T14:00:32 < invzim> oh vanity, picked matte black on jlcpcb -> build time 3-4 days instead of 24hrs
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2019-05-06T14:13:46 < zyp> so I'm looking at getting paving stones, and I want to put down ~30 along the surface that's getting asphalt so that they can make a clean edge when they put down the asphalt
2019-05-06T14:14:33 < zyp> found a kind that I like, but apparently none of the local stores stock it, so I emailed them and asked
2019-05-06T14:15:09 < zyp> reply roughly read (yeah, I can order them for you, they'll be 19 NOK each, plus 1400 NOK in shipping and fees)
2019-05-06T14:15:30 < zyp> i.e. ~600 NOK worth of stones and 1400 NOK to get them
2019-05-06T14:18:28 < qyx> which kind?
2019-05-06T14:21:01 < zyp> http://www.multiblokk.no/multiblokk/Belegningsstein/Plaza/8612
2019-05-06T14:29:03 < qyx> mhm this is probably the most common type here
2019-05-06T14:29:21 < Thorn> so one of my sht31 sensors got covered in flux during soldering (despite kapton tape that I used for protection). I cleaned it with a cotton swab soaked in IPA. humidity measurement is now kaputt. slowly increasing over several hours, not reacting at all to me breathing into it (normally they react dramatically to that) :/
2019-05-06T14:29:22 < qyx> we have them at parents house
2019-05-06T14:37:01 < karlp> Thorn:yarh, humi sensors are the only ones I've ever busted through handling.
2019-05-06T14:37:23 < karlp> 20x20 is little.
2019-05-06T14:38:46 < qyx> Thorn: try to bath it in IPA
2019-05-06T14:38:55 < zyp> qyx, this shit is designed with gaps to drain water between the stones
2019-05-06T14:39:12 < qyx> zyp: I see, same here
2019-05-06T14:39:17 < zyp> same idea as these, just better looking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqZEttiGsb4
2019-05-06T14:39:54 < zyp> and I want that, because then I don't have to worry about leading the water somewhere and dealing with it there
2019-05-06T14:43:47 < karlp> heh, 32bits was too small, so we used 64 bit for some values.  48bit would have been plenty, but tedious to work with.
2019-05-06T14:43:59 < karlp> looking at the docs from a gas meter... they're using 48bits :)
2019-05-06T14:44:24 < zyp> heh
2019-05-06T14:45:03 < zyp> 48 bit computations doesn't have any performance benefits over 64-bit computations on a 32-bit cpu
2019-05-06T14:45:28 < zyp> bit more compact for storage/transfer, but only if protocol can make use of it
2019-05-06T14:45:32 < karlp> we considered 48bit just to reduce the amount of eeprom we needed.
2019-05-06T14:45:42 < karlp> but fuck presenting it as 48bit.
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2019-05-06T14:48:52 < daniel_jackson> hello guys
2019-05-06T14:57:02 < Thorn> qyx: I will out of curiosity but it might well be IPA that killed it in the first place
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2019-05-06T16:33:45 < catphish> woo, just smashed 10k run PB
2019-05-06T17:15:56 < invzim> EPO FTW
2019-05-06T17:24:34 < jadew> this works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyQjFrjz6xg
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2019-05-06T17:56:09 < qyx> Thorn: may be
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2019-05-06T19:11:47 < leachim6> so am I missing what the point of stm(8/32)CubeMX is *for* ?
2019-05-06T19:11:57 < leachim6> I thought it did code generation but that does not appear to be the case
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2019-05-06T19:14:06 < Thorn> part selection, pin planning, clock config, basic peripheral config, basic current consumption calculator
2019-05-06T19:15:02 < Thorn> qyx: IPA didn't help. it now shows 65% RH insteaad of 24% (a good one shows 37%) but still doesn't react to humid air
2019-05-06T19:17:43 < leachim6> sure but how do you get stuff *out* of it
2019-05-06T19:17:51 < leachim6> all I can get it to make is a CSV, what is that intended to be used for?
2019-05-06T19:19:46 < varesa> it can generate projects for various IDEs with the generated code included
2019-05-06T19:20:05 < leachim6> what menu would that be in?
2019-05-06T19:20:14 < leachim6> I'm using the stm8 version if that matters
2019-05-06T19:20:36 < varesa> don't have it in front of me so I don't remember (also I've only used the stm32 version)
2019-05-06T19:20:52 < varesa> so all I can really say is either look harder or read the docs
2019-05-06T19:20:58 < leachim6> fair enough
2019-05-06T19:21:54 < varesa> Is there a Project > Generate code?
2019-05-06T19:21:59 < varesa> (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RqUkFIeN6w)
2019-05-06T19:22:09 < leachim6> just "Generate Report" and the format is pdf
2019-05-06T19:22:51 < leachim6> I'm looking at the docs now
2019-05-06T19:24:29 < varesa> The stm32cubemx product page includes "Generation of initialization C code project" under key features: https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/development-tools/software-development-tools/stm32-software-development-tools/stm32-configurators-and-code-generators/stm32cubemx.html
2019-05-06T19:24:43 < varesa> the stm8cubemx doesn't: https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stm8cubemx.html
2019-05-06T19:24:54 < leachim6> ah, so I guess it literally is just pin planning
2019-05-06T19:25:29 < varesa> and clock/power stuff
2019-05-06T19:26:11 < englishman> stm32 absolutely does code generation, for stm8 thankfully it's a lot easier to generate your own startup code
2019-05-06T19:26:26 < englishman> never used stm8 cube didn't even know such a thing existed
2019-05-06T19:27:05 < varesa> I've never used STM8 at all
2019-05-06T19:27:43 < Thorn> leachim6: stm8cube can't generate code afaik
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2019-05-06T19:47:08 < Thorn> template<typename, template<typename, typename>class> friend class Stack;
2019-05-06T19:48:11 < zyp> yo dawg
2019-05-06T19:49:22 < Thorn> this is chapter 5/28
2019-05-06T19:50:02 < Thorn> I'm scared to read further
2019-05-06T19:55:14 < leachim6> englishman: how does one generate startup code for stm8?
2019-05-06T19:55:34 < englishman> you just make a main.c and start typing
2019-05-06T19:55:44 < englishman> way simpler than stm32
2019-05-06T19:55:45 < leachim6> ok cool, there is a boilerplate example in the datasheet
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2019-05-06T19:56:05 < leachim6> I'm just trying to get a hello world blinky on it at the moment
2019-05-06T19:56:09 < leachim6> twiddle the bits
2019-05-06T19:56:11 < Thorn> sdcc has builtin startup code for stm8
2019-05-06T19:56:12 < englishman> there should be a bunch of hal and non-hal examples to copypaste
2019-05-06T19:56:25 < leachim6> Thorn: maybe I'll try with sdcc/stm8flash instead of STVD 
2019-05-06T20:00:21 < Thorn> englishman discovered https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/more-than-300-cats-found-in-single-toronto-apartment-1.4409251
2019-05-06T20:01:08 < englishman> that's enough cats
2019-05-06T20:14:22 < aandrew> lol
2019-05-06T20:14:33 < aandrew> looking at AN3411 code
2019-05-06T20:15:13 < aandrew> int foo(u16 len, bar_t *bar) { bar->a = 0; bar->b = 0; if(bar == NULL) { return error; } };
2019-05-06T20:16:06 < karlp> error free code...
2019-05-06T20:16:50 < aandrew> yep. I mean I know some processors can do out of order execution but this is the first time I've seen code written out of order :-)
2019-05-06T20:18:01 < zyp> maybe *0 is not a writable region, and the writes will be silently ignored :)
2019-05-06T20:18:26 < zyp> in which case testing before or after the writes don't do any difference to actual behavior
2019-05-06T20:18:30 < aandrew> good try, but that still wouldn't work
2019-05-06T20:18:50 < aandrew> because it's reading *0 to get the offsets to 'a' and 'b'
2019-05-06T20:19:02 < aandrew> I admire your effort though :-)
2019-05-06T20:19:31 < zyp> oh, right :)
2019-05-06T20:19:54 < zyp> well, maybe *0 contains a pointer to unwritable memory then :D
2019-05-06T20:20:05 < aandrew> :-)
2019-05-06T20:20:06 < zyp> in stm32 it usually points just beyond ram
2019-05-06T20:20:23 < aandrew> trying to port this code over to stm32f7 without rewriting my entire ethernetif.c
2019-05-06T20:20:29 < zyp> although, I suspect in some cases might wrap, so it aliases beginning of ram
2019-05-06T20:21:16 < aandrew> I was kind of wondering why this code (from ST) was not using HAL... it appears it's not becuase the HAL has no concept of IEEE1588 support
2019-05-06T20:21:19 < aandrew> maybe it's in _ex
2019-05-06T20:21:40 < aandrew> nope, no stm32f7xx_hal_eth_ex
2019-05-06T20:22:09 < aandrew> I think I need to go get fomr food and visit the dog park nearby
2019-05-06T20:26:08 < Thorn> template<typename T, typename = void>
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2019-05-06T20:40:57 < Steffanx> You're welcome Thorn
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2019-05-06T21:17:04 < Thorn> But also don't forget that named rvalue references are lvalues:
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2019-05-06T21:25:30 < jpa-> aandrew: isn't   bar->a = 0;  equivalent to    *(bar + a_offset) = 0;   i.e.   *8 = 0;   or similar low value, no reading done because the offset is constant?
2019-05-06T21:27:02 < jpa-> it's also very useful that while *0 points beyond ram on cortex-m, any other small offset has pointer to nice readable program memory
2019-05-06T21:28:08 < jpa-> that comes especially handy when you want to call C++ virtual functions through null vtable pointer
2019-05-06T21:28:15 < aandrew> yes, depends on where in the bar struct element 'a' is
2019-05-06T21:28:28 < aandrew> if it's the first element, then &bar->a = 0
2019-05-06T21:29:20 < jpa-> yeah, address depends on that, but doesn't invoke a read in any case, and atleast on stm32 writes to the 0x0000 flash area are just silently ignored
2019-05-06T21:29:23 < aandrew> jpa-:  the compiler can't assume bar is zero and thus precompute the memory address of bar
2019-05-06T21:29:45 < jpa-> bar's value comes from register of course
2019-05-06T21:30:04 < aandrew> the code should emit a read and a write since bar's address isn't constant (unless the compiler can figure that out beforehand)
2019-05-06T21:30:09 < jpa-> but nowhere there is *0 or any address there read
2019-05-06T21:30:46 < jpa-> bar's address is not used anywhere, bar is a pointer and its value is in register (or potentially in stack in some cases, but in register in this case)
2019-05-06T21:30:51 < aandrew> I see what you're saying. perhaps not in that function
2019-05-06T21:31:10 < jpa-> yeah
2019-05-06T21:31:13 < jpa-> just wanted to nitpick!
2019-05-06T21:31:21 < aandrew> :-)
2019-05-06T21:31:27 < jpa-> especially as you managed to fool zyp
2019-05-06T21:31:58 < aandrew> actually I'd fooled myself, zyp was just along for the ride
2019-05-06T21:34:04 < leachim6> I know I saw example code for my stm8 *somewhere*
2019-05-06T21:34:08 < leachim6> maybe it was in an appnote :/
2019-05-06T21:34:14 < leachim6> can't find it in here -> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stm8l050j3.pdf
2019-05-06T21:35:38 < leachim6> ahh, it was an appnote, in case anyone is wondering https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/group0/f0/a0/b1/90/65/14/42/ca/DM00422107/files/DM00422107.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00422107.pdf
2019-05-06T21:43:16 < zyp> jpa-, oh, duh
2019-05-06T21:44:06 < leachim6> so apparently the standard peripheral library should've been included with cosmic and stvd, but the example code won't compile for lack of it...
2019-05-06T21:44:09 < leachim6> it's not on my system
2019-05-06T21:44:41 < zyp> that's what I were thinking in the first place, and then I didn't put too much effort into rethinking it
2019-05-06T21:49:20 < leachim6> why can't st.com remember I'm logged in for more than 14 nanoseconds -_-
2019-05-06T21:51:42 < Steffanx> because india india is in your future. Your time already happened
2019-05-06T21:52:19 < Steffanx> *india is in
2019-05-06T21:52:45 < leachim6> I'm getting a tad frustrated here...
2019-05-06T21:53:17 < Steffanx> is it bad?
2019-05-06T21:53:30 < leachim6> so the example code in the appnote for my exact microcontroller doesn't compile
2019-05-06T21:53:34 < leachim6> because it's missing the std peripheral libs
2019-05-06T21:53:46 < leachim6> but when I DL the standard peripheral libs linked off the product page of my MCU, they don't match the appnote
2019-05-06T21:53:55 < leachim6> https://my.st.com/content/my_st_com/en/products/embedded-software/mcu-mpu-embedded-software/stm8-embedded-software/stsw-stm8016.license=1557168312008.product=STSW-STM8016.version=1.6.2.html
2019-05-06T21:55:11  * leachim6 logs into st for the 500th time this hour
2019-05-06T21:55:48 < mawk> stm8cubemx isn't a thing ?
2019-05-06T21:55:51 < mawk> I thought it was
2019-05-06T21:55:57 < leachim6> it is but it doesn't generate any code, we discussed earlier ^
2019-05-06T21:55:59 < mawk> use that, it will make code for you
2019-05-06T21:56:03 < mawk> ah
2019-05-06T21:56:15 < leachim6> it literally only does clock/pin planning, it seems pretty useless to be honest
2019-05-06T21:56:27 < mawk> let me try
2019-05-06T21:56:36 < leachim6> it doesn't do anything you couldn't do with a piece of graph paper and a steady hand
2019-05-06T21:57:17 < leachim6> ok I think I found the right SPL, looks like ST's product page links the wrong one...nice
2019-05-06T21:57:21 < mawk> yeah doesn't look terribly useful
2019-05-06T21:57:36 < leachim6> I expected it to be link the stm32 one, which is pretty nice
2019-05-06T21:57:40 < leachim6> *like
2019-05-06T21:57:55 < mawk> you don't have example code in stm8cube firmware files ?
2019-05-06T21:57:57 < mawk> like for stm32
2019-05-06T21:58:01 < mawk> it's a bit hidden
2019-05-06T21:58:11 < leachim6> like just in the directory?
2019-05-06T21:58:17 < mawk> yes
2019-05-06T21:58:21  * leachim6 looks
2019-05-06T21:58:28 < mawk> you can use the tree program to see
2019-05-06T21:58:43 < leachim6> what directory is it in, nothing in here looks like example code
2019-05-06T21:58:51 < mawk> tree -C|less -R
2019-05-06T21:59:00 < mawk> I don't know, I just know for stm32cube
2019-05-06T21:59:06 < leachim6> yeah nope no example code in here
2019-05-06T21:59:14 < Steffanx> ther eis example code i think.
2019-05-06T21:59:16 < Steffanx> i used it once
2019-05-06T21:59:18 < leachim6> the only example code I could possibly find is in the appnote
2019-05-06T21:59:53 < mawk> in the Projects directory maybe
2019-05-06T21:59:59 < mawk> otherwise just read drivers
2019-05-06T22:00:01 < mawk> it's what I do
2019-05-06T22:00:07 < leachim6> https://pb.l1nx.pw/rODpuQzie5
2019-05-06T22:00:07 < mawk> read the .h, .c
2019-05-06T22:00:30 < Steffanx> STM8L15x-16x-05x-AL31-L_StdPeriph_Lib\Project\STM8L15x_StdPeriph_Examples what else you need?
2019-05-06T22:00:48 < leachim6> Steffanx: yeah that's where I'm at
2019-05-06T22:00:52 < leachim6> I just got the right SPL though :)
2019-05-06T22:00:54 < leachim6> minutes ago
2019-05-06T22:01:01 < Steffanx> :)
2019-05-06T22:02:17 < leachim6> yeah! example code built :D
2019-05-06T22:02:23 < Steffanx>  \o/
2019-05-06T22:02:29 < leachim6> sure arduino may be point and click, but I feel like I'm learning good stuff here :D
2019-05-06T22:02:36 < leachim6> I am a super noob, if you couldn't tell
2019-05-06T22:02:50 < Steffanx> tarduino turned you into a tard.
2019-05-06T22:02:55 < leachim6> one day I was browsing arrow and thought "I wonder if there's anything cheaper than the attiny85"
2019-05-06T22:03:01 < leachim6> then I stumbled accross this beauty
2019-05-06T22:03:07 < leachim6> STM8L050J3
2019-05-06T22:03:19 < leachim6> about 50 cents in qty10, vs like 2 bucks for the atmel
2019-05-06T22:03:24 < mawk> stm32l is nice too
2019-05-06T22:03:31 < Steffanx> H7 too
2019-05-06T22:03:33 < mawk> it has power consumption and pin count comparable
2019-05-06T22:03:35 < mawk> lol
2019-05-06T22:03:38 < leachim6> I have a bunch of the blue pill boards
2019-05-06T22:03:49 < leachim6> stm8 just seemed interesting because they come on a lot of the cheap chinese things I like to buy
2019-05-06T22:03:49 < mawk> blue pill isn't comparable it's a big bulky old chip
2019-05-06T22:04:16 < leachim6> stm32L is cortex-M0 rigght?
2019-05-06T22:04:23 < mawk> stm32l0 is cortex M0
2019-05-06T22:04:26 < mawk> you have other cortexes
2019-05-06T22:04:28 < mawk> L is for low power
2019-05-06T22:04:31 < leachim6> oh I see gotcha
2019-05-06T22:04:51 < leachim6> the PyBoard uses the STM32F40, that seemd interesting, but sort of a bear to work with
2019-05-06T22:04:58 < mawk> they're all interesting
2019-05-06T22:05:02 < mawk> except the old ones like on your blue pills
2019-05-06T22:05:07 < leachim6> I'm not a master solderer, but an 8pin SO I can do
2019-05-06T22:05:18 < mawk> use a frying pan and sand
2019-05-06T22:05:21 < mawk> or hot plate
2019-05-06T22:05:25 < mawk> if you can't do it with the iron
2019-05-06T22:05:31 < leachim6> I've got paste and hot air too
2019-05-06T22:05:36 < mawk> you're rich
2019-05-06T22:05:39 < mawk> :(
2019-05-06T22:05:40 < leachim6> I sorta stumbled into this deep well of electronics about 6 months ago
2019-05-06T22:05:49 < leachim6> lol "rich", that's not what my close chinese friends on alibaba say ;)
2019-05-06T22:05:57 < mawk> I still only have a $10 amazon iron
2019-05-06T22:06:06 < mawk> that I should put in 450W setting to solder leaded
2019-05-06T22:06:11 < leachim6> you should get the KSGER one I have, stm32 powered ;)
2019-05-06T22:06:40 < mawk> my scope is a 1990 analog tektronix I dealed in from an university lab
2019-05-06T22:07:11 < leachim6> ok maybe I am "rich" compared to you lol
2019-05-06T22:07:23 < leachim6> I have a Tek 2245A in 9/10 condition I got on ebay for a whole hundred us dinars
2019-05-06T22:07:45 < leachim6> can't find anything wrong with it, I may need to replace the battery at some point, I'm kind of afraid to open it and displace the magic dust
2019-05-06T22:08:02 < Steffanx> L0 is M0+ right? not M0 :P Important difference
2019-05-06T22:08:08 < leachim6> yeah it is +
2019-05-06T22:08:32 < leachim6> I'm still learning what all of this means, a few months ago I just learned how to blink an LED on arduino
2019-05-06T22:08:49 < mawk> you don't feel the differences unless you poke the registers directly
2019-05-06T22:08:54 < leachim6> and I was frustrated because I wanted to use tiny processors and the default blink "sketch" on arduino HAL takes 3k
2019-05-06T22:08:57 < leachim6> which is insane to me
2019-05-06T22:09:38 < leachim6> so I learned a bit of AVR C and got it down to about 100B, and that's with using the avr libc peripheral library, not even bit twiddling, I'm sure I could get it down even lower in C without going to ASM
2019-05-06T22:09:59 < mawk> my usb hello world project takes 55k of flash
2019-05-06T22:10:10 < leachim6> that seems really high
2019-05-06T22:10:16 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-06T22:10:21 < mawk> let's see what takes that place
2019-05-06T22:10:27 < leachim6> but then again, modern chips have a lot more room to work in
2019-05-06T22:10:33 < Steffanx> Wut 55k mr mawk?
2019-05-06T22:10:39 < mawk> just 256k of flash leachim6 , not a lot of room
2019-05-06T22:10:48 < leachim6> compared to the 8k on this stm8 ;)
2019-05-06T22:10:52 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2019-05-06T22:10:55 < leachim6> or the 1k on my Attiny13's
2019-05-06T22:11:03 < leachim6> oh sorry, is AVR banned here? probably.
2019-05-06T22:11:08 < Steffanx> Thats huuge mawk
2019-05-06T22:11:37 < leachim6> I don't really know about the standard stuff for stmxx/arm in general, on AVR you'd use something like LUFA or micronuclus or V-USB
2019-05-06T22:11:44 < leachim6> wait, the thing has hardware USB?
2019-05-06T22:11:51 < mawk> Steffanx: https://pix.watch/MzQ_wu/xeD-y_.png
2019-05-06T22:11:51 < Steffanx> lufa is hw usb too
2019-05-06T22:12:05 < leachim6> oh is it? I thought it was software, is it AVR specific? I can't remember
2019-05-06T22:12:05 < mawk> nothing takes much place (except the two big bulky libc functions at the top) but it's the accumulation of everything
2019-05-06T22:12:06 < Steffanx> strtod :D
2019-05-06T22:12:08 < mawk> + the st hal lib
2019-05-06T22:12:09 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-06T22:12:15 < mawk> the st usb lib*
2019-05-06T22:12:24 < leachim6> learn something new every day, cool.
2019-05-06T22:12:29  * leachim6 likes learning
2019-05-06T22:12:37 < mawk> software usb seems hard to do
2019-05-06T22:12:52 < leachim6> it depends on what you wanna do
2019-05-06T22:12:57 < leachim6> micronucleus is like 1kB
2019-05-06T22:13:07 < mawk> you need 48MHz clock with enough precision
2019-05-06T22:13:11 < leachim6> afaik it just bitbangs UART over the usb port
2019-05-06T22:13:14 < Steffanx> My current project. doing some USB HID (zyp's laks much) some some basic FOC is 22k :P
2019-05-06T22:13:33 < leachim6> what chip for the HID?
2019-05-06T22:13:37 < leachim6> HID is fun
2019-05-06T22:13:39 < mawk> uart is distinct from usb
2019-05-06T22:13:52 < leachim6> I'd used mega32u4's in the past, but they're so expensive compared to other options nowadays
2019-05-06T22:13:57 < Steffanx> F412 leachim6
2019-05-06T22:13:59 < leachim6> even my beloved STM32F103C8 can do it
2019-05-06T22:13:59 < mawk> maybe you mean you have the ftdi uart usb chip and the board and you bitbang the uart
2019-05-06T22:14:04 < mawk> then yes you do this
2019-05-06T22:14:06 < mawk> but it's not usb
2019-05-06T22:14:21 < leachim6> mawk: you are correct, it uses a usb port, but it certainly is not within spec
2019-05-06T22:14:31 < leachim6> if you've ever seen those Digispark boards, that's how it's done
2019-05-06T22:14:33 < mawk> no it's with spec, but from the mcu point of view it's uart
2019-05-06T22:14:47 < mawk> you just have a chip that wraps this into usb for the computer to see
2019-05-06T22:14:51 < mawk> the chip thinks it's uart
2019-05-06T22:14:51 < leachim6> I haven't dug too deep on it, it doesn't work super great https://github.com/micronucleus/micronucleus
2019-05-06T22:15:05 < mawk> and uart you can bitbang, you can do like 9600 bauds easily
2019-05-06T22:15:06 < leachim6> basically it relies on the host computer freaking out at a nonstandard USB device and trapping that signal in the programming software
2019-05-06T22:15:23 < leachim6> on windows that says the device is "damaged", *nix handles it more gracefully
2019-05-06T22:15:32 < mawk> yes you need drivers
2019-05-06T22:15:38 < leachim6> it's all quite hacky
2019-05-06T22:15:57 < leachim6> but when chips with hardware usb are so cheap now, it loses it's lustre pretty quickly
2019-05-06T22:18:04 < mawk> how's your stm8ing going leachim6 
2019-05-06T22:18:09 < mawk> you can blink stuff now ?
2019-05-06T22:18:19 < Steffanx> Yes we can \o/
2019-05-06T22:20:07 < mawk> mpm
2019-05-06T22:20:08 < mawk> lol*
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2019-05-06T22:23:23 < Steffanx> Whats lol in french? Missed French 101 the last few days
2019-05-06T22:23:35 < mawk> mdr
2019-05-06T22:23:39 < mawk> or ptdr
2019-05-06T22:23:50 < mawk> which means "mort de rire" or "pété de rire"
2019-05-06T22:24:15 < mawk> dead of laughter, wasted from laughter
2019-05-06T22:24:29 < Steffanx> aha
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2019-05-06T22:24:55 < Steffanx> i always say lol instead oh "hah" because "lol" is more like "hah" in dutch
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2019-05-06T22:27:32 < mawk> what about lul
2019-05-06T22:29:48 < Steffanx> dick.
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2019-05-06T22:32:11 < Steffanx> but you knew that
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2019-05-06T22:32:52 < mawk> :(
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2019-05-06T22:36:46 < leachim6> mawk: not quite yet I had to get the mail :D
2019-05-06T22:37:03 < leachim6> but I got the example code compiled, it has a loop that waits 5 seconds before executing the main loop, which is good, because this MCU has no reset line
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2019-05-06T23:07:43 < qyx> are such things legit? https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/oky3504-2/menice/okystar/
2019-05-06T23:09:13 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a01:e0a:198:e110:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2019-05-06T23:13:37 < qyx> also, have you seen STSPIN32F0B?
2019-05-06T23:14:04 < englishman> best spin
2019-05-06T23:16:34 < qyx> looks awesome
2019-05-06T23:17:12 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-7de2e253.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has joined ##stm32
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2019-05-06T23:22:05 < Steffanx> Whats new about this stspin32?
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2019-05-06T23:31:22 < englishman> https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527870/microsoft-windows-terminal-command-line-tool
2019-05-06T23:31:46 < leachim6> I was using the test code for the wrong MCU variant
2019-05-06T23:31:47 < leachim6> whoops.
2019-05-06T23:31:49 < leachim6> -_-
2019-05-06T23:31:50 < qyx> Steffanx: idk, I haven't seen it yet
2019-05-06T23:32:29 < englishman> https://github.com/microsoft/terminal
2019-05-06T23:33:29 < englishman> >will we be able to load graphics into the terminal like you can in TempleOS?
2019-05-06T23:33:29 < englishman> lol
2019-05-06T23:33:34 < qyx> thats great, finally in 2019
2019-05-06T23:33:55 < leachim6> no screenshots
2019-05-06T23:33:58 < leachim6> what is this, 1998
2019-05-06T23:34:14 < englishman> We've worked to try to make a handful of GIF/JPEG --> ASCII tools work into the Terminal environment.
2019-05-06T23:34:16 < englishman> whoa
2019-05-06T23:34:24 < englishman> microsoft ascii tools
2019-05-06T23:34:25 < leachim6> aalib, duh
2019-05-06T23:34:26 < leachim6> :D
2019-05-06T23:34:45 < leachim6> https://github.com/Microsoft/Terminal/tree/master/samples/ConPTY/EchoCon
2019-05-06T23:34:51 < leachim6> the microsoft dev's local host is called Rincewind
--- Day changed Tue May 07 2019
2019-05-07T00:10:52 < catphish> my STM32 uses MSI by default, but i want to reconfigure MSI, can i do this while it's in use?
2019-05-07T00:13:26 < qyx> yes, you can change its speed
2019-05-07T00:14:08 < qyx> where are stm32 radio pros
2019-05-07T00:14:42 < catphish> qyx: thanks
2019-05-07T00:15:14 < qyx> can I use a preamble different than 0xAA?
2019-05-07T00:18:04 < catphish> 0xAA is magic, but i have no idea what protocol you're referring to :(
2019-05-07T00:20:59 < mawk> yes qyx 0x55
2019-05-07T00:22:43 < qyx> I meant with FSK and our beloved semtech transceivers
2019-05-07T00:26:12 < mawk> so you roll your own protocol ?
2019-05-07T00:26:25 < mawk> 4 bytes zero, then some toggling thing
2019-05-07T00:26:29 < mawk> is the usual way
2019-05-07T00:29:25 < mawk> some use 0xE5 also
2019-05-07T00:31:52 < qyx> the usual way is 0xaa or 0x55
2019-05-07T00:32:14 < qyx> but I didn't test how well the bit synchronizer works with different values
2019-05-07T00:33:04 < qyx> there is also a preamble detector which kinda expects alternating 0 and 1
2019-05-07T00:34:27 < qyx> and this preamble is the only thing in the packet distinguishable from a random data
2019-05-07T00:35:13 < qyx> (having eliminated the sync code and length byte)
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2019-05-07T01:07:06 < englishman> what's a preamble
2019-05-07T01:07:12 < englishman> just use lora
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2019-05-07T01:47:26 < aandrew> qyx: you typically want an alternating bit pattern for preamble
2019-05-07T01:47:33 < aandrew> gives the receiver lots of edges to lock on
2019-05-07T01:55:50 < mawk> yeah 0x55 or 0xAA
2019-05-07T02:05:04 < specing> you can also transmit at two different voltages
2019-05-07T02:05:12 < specing> like printer-cartridge comms
2019-05-07T02:05:32 < specing> and switch the lines every 2 bits
2019-05-07T02:05:44 < specing> at 5-7V ...
2019-05-07T02:10:36 < Thorn> qyx: afaik in fsk mode you can only configure the length of the preamble, not the content
2019-05-07T02:11:18 < Thorn> REG_PREAMBLEMSB / REG_PREAMBLELSB
2019-05-07T02:11:48 < Thorn> and it can be > 256 bytes in length if they're providing 2 registers for the length wrf
2019-05-07T02:12:46 < catphish> started looking at USB, certainly seems complicated, no idea where to even begin initializing things
2019-05-07T02:14:12 < Thorn> clocks obviously
2019-05-07T02:14:16 < Thorn> then pins
2019-05-07T02:14:28 < Thorn> then the usb core itself
2019-05-07T02:14:36 < Thorn> https://github.com/pthorn/cortexm-usb-driver/blob/master/include/usb/dwc_otg_device.impl.h#L65
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2019-05-07T02:17:39 < catphish> i *think* i've done the clocks and pins
2019-05-07T02:17:51 < catphish> but no idea where to go next
2019-05-07T02:18:25 < catphish> that code looks good, i'll read :)
2019-05-07T02:20:57 < jadew> you guys heard about that user agreement change paypal is making?
2019-05-07T02:21:06 < jadew> I think it's supposed to roll out today
2019-05-07T02:21:27 < jadew> no more refunds on selling fees when issuing a refund yourself
2019-05-07T02:21:54 < jadew> so if someone buys something that's worth 1k and then wants a refund 2 minutes later, you awe paypal $30
2019-05-07T02:21:59 < jadew> oew
2019-05-07T02:22:02 < jadew> owe
2019-05-07T02:24:29 < catphish> that's a big risk
2019-05-07T02:24:41 < jadew> yeah
2019-05-07T02:24:43 < catphish> every other payment provider i know refunds feed on refunded payments
2019-05-07T02:25:22 < jadew> they should take it from the buyer
2019-05-07T02:25:47 < jadew> otherwise, the seller should inform the buyer that if they chose to pay via paypal, they are the ones who have to pay this fee
2019-05-07T02:26:40 < Cracki> waaait I can screw over a seller by repeatedly buying and canceling?
2019-05-07T02:26:45 < jadew> yep
2019-05-07T02:26:52 < Cracki> paypal...
2019-05-07T02:26:58 < catphish> only until they stop accepting your orders :)
2019-05-07T02:27:09 < jadew> well, you can get 10 friends do it
2019-05-07T02:27:11 < Cracki> why would paypal stop me from making them money?
2019-05-07T02:27:35 < jadew> and the payment goes through automatically anyway
2019-05-07T02:27:37 < Cracki> and what the seller does is irrelevant, I could just screw over another seller
2019-05-07T02:28:58 < catphish> well i'll be happy i issue almost no refunds
2019-05-07T02:30:06 < ds2> retail sales suck
2019-05-07T02:42:42 < Cracki> civilization would be more civilized if people could shoot each other for being uncivilized
2019-05-07T02:43:13 < Cracki> today it's all just frustration over socially imposed helplessness
2019-05-07T02:45:53 < Thorn> why is there paypal but no playpal
2019-05-07T02:45:56 < Thorn> where is Elon Musk when you need one
2019-05-07T02:46:39 < englishman> yeah why doesn't he make a competitor to PayPal?
2019-05-07T02:46:51 < englishman> he could be so much better at it
2019-05-07T02:47:11 < Thorn> he already made paypal
2019-05-07T02:47:16 < englishman> woosh
2019-05-07T02:48:10 < englishman> only thing slower than thorn is a Russian airport firecrew
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2019-05-07T02:53:46 < specing> sick burn
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2019-05-07T02:54:50 < specing> Cracki: but you can
2019-05-07T02:54:58 < specing> the trick is not to get caught
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2019-05-07T02:57:21 < mawk> can I mix HAL and LL ?
2019-05-07T02:57:42 < mawk> for a single device
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2019-05-07T03:22:59 < Cracki> HAL itself uses LL, doesn't it
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2019-05-07T03:39:56 < ds2> last #beagle-mentors
2019-05-07T03:39:58 < ds2> blah
2019-05-07T03:40:54 < mawk> not that I know of Cracki 
2019-05-07T03:40:59 < mawk> at least for the HAL parts I read
2019-05-07T03:41:13 < mawk> both poke registers
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2019-05-07T03:45:41 < Cracki> ic
2019-05-07T03:57:24 < englishman> yeah mawk you can pick and choose per periph iirc
2019-05-07T03:57:47 < mawk> ah good
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2019-05-07T05:18:26 < englishman> https://www.cui.com/product/resource/swi5-n.pdf
2019-05-07T05:18:28 < englishman> nice troll power supply
2019-05-07T05:18:31 < englishman> 12V into micro usb
2019-05-07T05:19:19 < englishman> 120 in stock at digikey
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2019-05-07T05:29:33 < emeb_mac> latest stm32 foolishness -> https://github.com/emeb/spi_fiend
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2019-05-07T06:02:12 < R2COM> emeb its time to stop using oshpark
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2019-05-07T06:09:32 < englishman> st fae has no idea why they made their chip delete usb PD data 2 milliseconds after it arrives. and suggest reading out registers faster
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2019-05-07T06:28:26 < R2COM> how do you search for those rotating electric contacts, say you have motor you rotate platform, but you also need to pass some power to whatever rotating on platform
2019-05-07T06:28:42 < R2COM> so the junction between platform and your motor has two contacts 
2019-05-07T06:28:45 < R2COM> conductive
2019-05-07T06:28:51 < R2COM> what is that shit called
2019-05-07T06:39:53 < Cracki> try "sliding contacts"
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2019-05-07T07:29:35 < fenugrec> R2COM, slip ring
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2019-05-07T08:38:12 < qyx> aandrew: yeah thats the best case, I am just trying to find a way to avoid it and still have it working properly.. even with with some downsides (like a longer preamble if required)
2019-05-07T08:38:55 < qyx> Thorn: you could transmit it as part of the data itself
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2019-05-07T13:48:22 < karlp> englishman:nice power supply :)
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2019-05-07T14:44:23 < yaqwsx> Is there somebody who uses STM32 and was able to use SPI with DMA? I am facing weird behavior. I use DMA to read from SPI on STM32G071. What I observe is that first 4 bytes are read correctly. Afterwards, DMA reads only the first byte of the trasmission. E.g. instead of "ABCDEFGH" I receive "ABCDAAAA".
2019-05-07T14:44:42 < yaqwsx> What could I miss in the configuration of SPI and DMA?
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2019-05-07T15:24:08 < qyx> fifo threshold?
2019-05-07T15:24:22 < qyx> (in the SPI)
2019-05-07T15:24:27 < yaqwsx> qyx: Is set to a quarter
2019-05-07T15:24:37 < qyx> mhm
2019-05-07T15:28:11 < yaqwsx> This is the code I use to setup DMA: https://pastebin.com/Ah62dE6m
2019-05-07T15:28:22 < yaqwsx> SPI works correctly in the interrupt mode.
2019-05-07T15:28:44 < aandrew> yaqwsx: I never got DMA working with SPI. was going to use it to program an ice40 but ended up just doing it simply
2019-05-07T15:29:28 < yaqwsx> aandrew: What was the problem you ran into?
2019-05-07T15:30:18 < aandrew> yaqwsx: I don't remember now, it was a while ago
2019-05-07T15:30:23 < aandrew> I didn't *need* DMA so I just said fuck it
2019-05-07T15:32:30 < yaqwsx> I wish I could say that... In my application SPI is on the critical path.
2019-05-07T15:35:10 < rajkosto> i blast spi pretty easily but you have a g0
2019-05-07T15:36:46 < jpa-> yaqwsx: what peripheral transfer size have you set? is your spi peripheral configured as 8-bit or 16-bit?
2019-05-07T15:37:15 < jpa-> also disabling fifo/burst mode in DMA can be useful test for debugging
2019-05-07T15:37:36 < yaqwsx> I use 8-bit SPI transmission, now I use no DMA packing.
2019-05-07T15:39:12 < yaqwsx> What is a burst mode?
2019-05-07T15:39:51 < yaqwsx> Looking in the reference manual, this mode is mentioned only for timers.
2019-05-07T15:47:57 < zyp> burst mode is when you feed 24V into VDD so the chip cracks open and lets out the blue smoke
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2019-05-07T16:00:18 < aandrew> I thought VDD=24V is high speed programming mode
2019-05-07T16:15:33 < catphish> i tried to follow some nice bare metal USB device code last night, once i got a few lines in, registers stopped matching my device, are there many different USB core versions?
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2019-05-07T16:22:06 < zyp> catphish, like I mentioned the other day, some devices are based on dwc_otg and some devices are based on st_usbfs (informal name, libopencm3 uses it and I haven't heard anything better, so I call it that too)
2019-05-07T16:23:15 < zyp> the latter exists in two versions, v2 adds some registers that deal with some optional features (e.g. USB BC support, IIRC)
2019-05-07T16:23:52 < zyp> and I also believe that there's a bit variation of what dwc_otg versions are used across the families, but the differences are minor
2019-05-07T16:24:15 < zyp> but overall it should be more or less compatible
2019-05-07T16:27:27 < catphish> i got as far as setting up clocks, and ports, enabled the usb, forced it to device mode, but the status register still says it's in host mode, so i'm missing something, i'll start over, the reference manual is less tutorial-y for USB than most other peripherals
2019-05-07T16:28:35 < zyp> dwc_otg is pretty fucking complex :)
2019-05-07T16:29:27 < catphish> which one do i have in my l433?
2019-05-07T16:32:17 < zyp> that.
2019-05-07T16:32:19 < zyp> :)
2019-05-07T16:32:57 < zyp> actually, I think it's the register that controls modes and vbus detection and stuff that differs between the revisions
2019-05-07T16:33:13 < zyp> the one with NOVBUSSENS and FDMOD and shit
2019-05-07T16:33:30 < yaqwsx> Ok, so for the SPI the problem was probably caused by not both reading and writing using DMA. Once I do so, the behavior changes; instead of "ABCDEFGHIJ" I receive "DEFGDAEBFC"
2019-05-07T16:33:34 < zyp> I think the newer revision replaced NOVBUSSENS with something else
2019-05-07T16:34:02 < zyp> yaqwsx, you're getting D twice, or was that a typo?
2019-05-07T16:34:19 < yaqwsx> I am getting D twice. That is the weir part.
2019-05-07T16:34:26 < zyp> yaqwsx, I bet you're running into some fifo/transfer size issue
2019-05-07T16:34:31 < zyp> or something
2019-05-07T16:35:03 < catphish> zyp: yeah, in fact NOVBUSSENS is where i got stuck last night
2019-05-07T16:35:14 < catphish> ie my chip didn't have it
2019-05-07T16:36:01 < zyp> I haven't worked with the newer revision yet, so I only have secondhand information about it, from libopencm3 discussion
2019-05-07T16:37:51 < catphish> well i'll just have to read the manual and reads it again
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2019-05-07T16:42:10 < bitmask> is it bad to get ceramic caps that are rated well above what you need?
2019-05-07T16:42:31 < bitmask> say its for 5v, are 50v caps going to cause a problem?
2019-05-07T16:43:11 < rajkosto> nop
2019-05-07T16:43:14 < bitmask> ok thanks
2019-05-07T16:43:19 < rajkosto> ratings on tiny MLCC ceramic caps are usually arbitrary anyway
2019-05-07T16:43:24 < bitmask> i see
2019-05-07T16:43:34 < catphish> i've never heard of that being a problem, in fact on the contrary, running them well below voltage capacity will give you closer to the rates charge
2019-05-07T16:43:36 < catphish> *rated
2019-05-07T16:43:53 < catphish> but i no expert
2019-05-07T16:43:58 < rajkosto> the capacitance at the advertised rating is usually like half of the given capacitance
2019-05-07T16:44:24 < bitmask> why? how does that work for stuff that requires specific values, like say for crystals, 22pf rated caps
2019-05-07T16:44:33 < catphish> badly
2019-05-07T16:44:35 < rajkosto> you arent running those at anywhere near the rated voltage
2019-05-07T16:44:46 < rajkosto> the pf ones have like 25 or 50v for all sizes pretty much
2019-05-07T16:44:49 < bitmask> ohhh AT the advertised rating
2019-05-07T16:44:52 < bitmask> I missed that
2019-05-07T16:44:57 < catphish> as rajkosto says, you don't run them anywhere near the rated voltage, in order to get the rated capacitance
2019-05-07T16:49:08 < bitmask> I added $50 worth of caps to my cart, I need to delete most of them haha
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2019-05-07T17:14:58 < aandrew> bitmask: well 22pF will be C0G or NP0 material which does not have the crazy bias derating curves of MLCCs
2019-05-07T17:15:36 < bitmask> yea I know, I'm only ordering c0g/np0, just not sure if I want to go all out and basically build my own decent quality 'book'
2019-05-07T17:15:44 < bitmask> just to have em on hand
2019-05-07T17:16:33 < aandrew> when I order caps I look for X7R/X5R if C0G/NP0 aren't available, and then get the highest rated voltage possible in the size I need to minimize biasing derating
2019-05-07T17:16:50 < bitmask> k
2019-05-07T17:17:55 < bitmask> murata seems to have good prices, they should at least be better than no name caps, I started at 1% and as the rating gets higher I start to lower the percentage, so at ~50nF its around 5%, maybe 10
2019-05-07T17:19:01 < bitmask> they are all basically 50V so far
2019-05-07T17:19:17 < aandrew> 50nF you should be able to find in C0G I think
2019-05-07T17:19:31 < bitmask> yea they are all c0g np0 so far
2019-05-07T17:19:33 < aandrew> although tbh I've never used a 50nF. 100nF, 10nF and 1nF yes
2019-05-07T17:19:46 < aandrew> but not 50 or 47 or 68 or any of those inbetweens
2019-05-07T17:19:51 < bitmask> i said ~50 (about 50) just giving a ballpark aea
2019-05-07T17:19:52 < bitmask> area
2019-05-07T17:19:56 < bitmask> oh ok
2019-05-07T17:20:00 < aandrew> I don't do much analog work though so those are all about bypassing/filtering
2019-05-07T17:20:19 < bitmask> what about pF ranges
2019-05-07T17:20:32 < bitmask> should I just go up the line or can I skip a lot
2019-05-07T17:20:41 < aandrew> depends
2019-05-07T17:20:51 < bitmask> I figure 10-30 I'll take all available
2019-05-07T17:21:02 < aandrew> if you're into RF stuff you may need oddball tiny ones 1.8, 4.7, 6.8, 10, 15, etc
2019-05-07T17:21:09 < bitmask> since 18-24pf or so is good for crystals
2019-05-07T17:21:25 < aandrew> but for crystals I typically have 8, 14 and 24 I think
2019-05-07T17:21:29 < bitmask> ok
2019-05-07T17:21:35 < aandrew> 99.99999% of the time it doesn't matter much at all
2019-05-07T17:21:40 < bitmask> I see
2019-05-07T17:23:26 < bitmask> what sizes do you generally go for, 0402+0603 for smaller values and 0805 for larger?
2019-05-07T17:24:37 < aandrew> 90% of my stuff is 0805. I don't like going below 0603 unless necessary
2019-05-07T17:24:50 < bitmask> ok, thats the smallest ive done so far
2019-05-07T17:24:54 < aandrew> I use 100 ohm 0201 because they are the right width for terminating diff pairs
2019-05-07T17:24:56 < rajkosto> wow 0805 smallest
2019-05-07T17:24:57 < rajkosto> thats huge
2019-05-07T17:25:00 < rajkosto> 0603 is big
2019-05-07T17:25:08 < rajkosto> 0402 is the default component size for me
2019-05-07T17:25:13 < aandrew> rajkosto: depends on what you're doing. I don't like having things tiny just becaue they can be
2019-05-07T17:25:15 < rajkosto> i cant easily solder 0201
2019-05-07T17:25:20 < aandrew> if there's a reason to have a tiny component then sure
2019-05-07T17:26:03 < aandrew> that digitizer board I was blogging about here is all 0603 with a few 0402 and 0201 for termintaion resistors, but the bigger value (2uF+) caps are 0805 or electrolytic cans
2019-05-07T17:26:13 < aandrew> I went 0603 for most of it because it was necessary
2019-05-07T17:26:22 < aandrew> all the bypass caps are 0402 IIRC because there are dozens of them under the BGAs
2019-05-07T17:27:16 < aandrew> I can't easily solder shit anymore. my eyes are no good. that $700 amscope inspection microscope I bought 7 years ago has been one of the best investments I've made in my lab, right after a decent (metcal) soldering iron
2019-05-07T17:27:45 < aandrew> I can do anything, even 01005 or doing tiny tiny board mods with it
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2019-05-07T18:14:19 < effractur>  /win 25
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2019-05-07T19:07:39 < englishman> those amscopes and other korean clones are fuckin great I love mine
2019-05-07T19:08:39 < aandrew> man the entire stm32f7x_hal_eth.c is incompatible with an RTOS
2019-05-07T19:08:43 < aandrew> full of HAL_Delay()
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2019-05-07T19:11:26 < zyp> can't you just substitute HAL_Delay() itself?
2019-05-07T19:12:30 < aandrew> I think so
2019-05-07T19:12:33 < englishman> #define HAL_Delay() NULL
2019-05-07T19:12:37 < aandrew> heh
2019-05-07T19:17:55 < mawk> replace HAL_Delay by osDelay or whatever no?
2019-05-07T19:20:37 < aandrew> yes thaat's exactly the solution
2019-05-07T19:20:56 < aandrew> just bothersome that HAL hasn't got this properly abstracted, or perhaps I'm just too stupid to understand how they want it abstracted
2019-05-07T19:21:09 < aandrew> basically HAL_Delay() is incompatible with FreeRTOS, you need to use OS_Delay()
2019-05-07T19:24:36 < englishman> is it a weak function
2019-05-07T19:26:11 < aandrew> I don't think so
2019-05-07T19:26:16 < aandrew> fuck now you're gonna make me look it up heh
2019-05-07T19:26:56 < aandrew> oh shit
2019-05-07T19:26:58 < aandrew> it is too
2019-05-07T19:27:06 < aandrew> I could have just redefined it all this time
2019-05-07T19:27:11 < aandrew> fuck me
2019-05-07T19:27:16 < aandrew> not pro at all
2019-05-07T19:27:29 < englishman> my bill is in the mail
2019-05-07T19:29:49 < aandrew> indeed just keep it hush hush I don't want dongs to read this
2019-05-07T19:29:55 < aandrew> he'll mock me for weeks
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2019-05-07T19:54:46 < bitmask> hmm how to organize assortments
2019-05-07T19:54:47 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/K6ztXDG.jpg
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2019-05-07T20:13:18 < Steffanx> Label it, put it in a box, done
2019-05-07T20:18:03 < bitmask> :)
2019-05-07T20:20:02 < Mangy_Dog> send them to me
2019-05-07T20:20:26 < bitmask> you sure you even want them? :P
2019-05-07T20:20:35 < bitmask> its all cheap Ali stuff
2019-05-07T20:20:59 < Mangy_Dog> what are the ics? :>
2019-05-07T20:25:31 < bitmask> hah I'm not getting rid of any of it, but theres a bunch of stuff, https://i.imgur.com/9Iyp08c.png
2019-05-07T20:26:50 < bitmask> mostly the bottom section is what you see in the pic
2019-05-07T20:26:59 < Mangy_Dog> its a good selection
2019-05-07T20:27:05 < bitmask> thx
2019-05-07T20:27:09 < Mangy_Dog> ill be getting a bunch of passive stuff soon myself for the next project
2019-05-07T20:27:21 < Mangy_Dog> just ordered a few tfp401s
2019-05-07T20:27:38 < Mangy_Dog> they wernt cheap
2019-05-07T20:27:59 < Mangy_Dog> and most of the sellers in china were selling them about the same price as they are locally
2019-05-07T20:28:24 < Mangy_Dog> though I did find a couple of x5 job lots that brought the chips down to about £3.50
2019-05-07T20:28:36 < Mangy_Dog> as apose the usual £6 or 8 they were locally
2019-05-07T20:29:30 < Mangy_Dog> its a hdmi to rgb dpi decoder
2019-05-07T20:40:11 < mawk> french energy distribution state monopoly forced new CPL power meters for everyone last year
2019-05-07T20:40:17 < mawk> and it's stm32 inside
2019-05-07T20:40:23 < mawk> stm32f20
2019-05-07T20:41:12 < mawk> TI core for the CPL also
2019-05-07T20:46:00 < mawk> they call it linky and it's bright lemon yellow
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2019-05-07T20:51:41 < Steffanx> "smart" meter?
2019-05-07T20:52:28 < mawk> it communicates your electrical consumption to the provider
2019-05-07T20:52:47 < mawk> so you no longer have door to door technicians checking your meter
2019-05-07T20:52:54 < mawk> you should have this in NL too soon
2019-05-07T20:53:05 < mawk> it's european union which forced this
2019-05-07T20:53:37 < mawk> but you don't access the data yourself, so couldn't be called a smart meter
2019-05-07T20:54:03 < mawk> but it's a smart meter for the provider, they're already calling themselves a big data actor and selling that juicy data
2019-05-07T20:54:07 < mawk> their stock got high
2019-05-07T20:54:35 < Steffanx> We have it and call it a "smart meter"
2019-05-07T20:55:03 < mawk> they call linky a communicating meter
2019-05-07T20:55:12 < mawk> but it's useless for the customer
2019-05-07T20:55:18 < Steffanx> yes
2019-05-07T20:55:24 < mawk> it can't even tell your energy consumption
2019-05-07T20:55:32 < mawk> it's worse than the mechanical ones
2019-05-07T20:55:46 < Steffanx> it can here. it as a display.
2019-05-07T20:55:46 < mawk> and it tells the current power only with the freq of a blinking led
2019-05-07T20:55:57 < mawk> yes it has a display here but the info isn't in it
2019-05-07T20:56:00 < mawk> it's useless
2019-05-07T20:56:06 < Steffanx> we have the info
2019-05-07T20:56:08 < mawk> maybe in 2024 after a sw update
2019-05-07T20:56:19 < mawk> they're busy data mining for now
2019-05-07T20:56:38 < Steffanx> we = here in this house
2019-05-07T20:56:42 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-07T20:56:45 < mawk> you're lucky
2019-05-07T20:56:58 < englishman> those things were rolled out here like 10y ago
2019-05-07T20:57:01 < Steffanx> i believe it also has some IR communication port you can use
2019-05-07T20:57:04 < mawk> you have less greedy provider
2019-05-07T20:57:32 < mawk> here it's been delayed for ages because countryside french are conspiracy nutjobs that fear about antenna
2019-05-07T20:57:54 < mawk> so the provider has clear instructions on how to break into people homes to install by force
2019-05-07T20:58:01 < mawk> they've been hitting old ladies and stuff
2019-05-07T20:58:02 < mawk> lol
2019-05-07T20:58:49 < mawk> cutting chains around the electrical boxes
2019-05-07T20:58:53 < englishman> typical gendarmerie activity
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2019-05-07T21:05:29 < mawk> I thought about entering the gendarmerie some time
2019-05-07T21:05:35 < mawk> but I really hate sports
2019-05-07T21:06:07 < mawk> also I had a criminal record, I don't think they'd allow me
2019-05-07T21:06:23 < mawk> even though it should be cleared now, but maybe they can see it
2019-05-07T21:11:46 < Steffanx> ohno, criminal mawk
2019-05-07T21:12:11 < mawk> lol
2019-05-07T21:12:11 < Steffanx> You shouldnt say thing like this in ##stm32 people will remember. Rob235 aka bitmask can tell you all about that
2019-05-07T21:13:02 < mawk> yeah maybe
2019-05-07T21:13:22 < mawk> good thing my nickname is a common unix tool
2019-05-07T21:13:47 < bitmask> psh, I aint no criminal
2019-05-07T21:14:05 < bitmask> not caught at least :P
2019-05-07T21:14:25 < Steffanx> not a criminal, but .. 
2019-05-07T21:14:50 < Steffanx> VAPER :d
2019-05-07T21:21:15 < englishman> ti forum lets you make a password with 16 chars but the login only lets you have 12
2019-05-07T21:26:08 < Steffanx> :)
2019-05-07T21:26:16 < Steffanx> msp430 much?
2019-05-07T21:28:36 < mawk> they don't want to make the job of crackers hard
2019-05-07T21:28:38 < mawk> good company
2019-05-07T21:30:39 < qyx> what are you doing in your state of france
2019-05-07T21:30:53 < qyx> remote power meters are a thing at least 5 years even here in the east
2019-05-07T21:30:57 < qyx> -a
2019-05-07T21:31:30 < qyx> with a nice display showing you everythng, W, kWh, cos(phi), multiple tarifs
2019-05-07T21:31:48 < mawk> not in your home qyx right
2019-05-07T21:31:53 < qyx> yes
2019-05-07T21:32:01 < mawk> on the streets or in the electrical building
2019-05-07T21:32:03 < mawk> right
2019-05-07T21:32:15 < mawk> well everything goes slow with a state monopoly
2019-05-07T21:32:26 < mawk> and refractory population
2019-05-07T21:32:34 < qyx> generally they are located in the distribution box in a fencing
2019-05-07T21:32:41 < mawk> yes
2019-05-07T21:42:58 < qyx> https://www.ssd.sk/buxus/docs/dokumenty/sluzby_zakaznikom/Letak_IMS.pdf
2019-05-07T21:43:23 < qyx> such things
2019-05-07T21:46:42 < Steffanx> Do you have your meters in house mawk?
2019-05-07T21:47:56 < mawk> no Steffanx it's in the common parts of the building
2019-05-07T21:48:04 < mawk> but I can go visit it
2019-05-07T21:48:29 < mawk> if I remove the leaded cover a silent alarm goes off and the energy provider will sue me
2019-05-07T21:49:29 < Steffanx> Heh
2019-05-07T21:52:00 < qyx> and you will have two criminal records then
2019-05-07T21:52:56 < Steffanx> 1.5
2019-05-07T21:57:34 < kakimir> ##criminals32
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2019-05-07T22:07:36 < Steffanx> hi kakimir hows the day
2019-05-07T22:07:40 < Steffanx> and the potmeterbox?
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2019-05-07T22:13:47 < Cracki> the channel is a lie
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2019-05-07T22:32:40 < catphish> today i learned, don't try PCBs with cheap paper towel https://i.imgur.com/LfTQltJ.jpg
2019-05-07T22:32:45 < catphish> *clean
2019-05-07T22:32:49 < catphish> *dry
2019-05-07T22:33:12 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2019-05-07T22:33:14 < catphish> worst assembly job ever, but it works
2019-05-07T22:33:25 < Mangy_Dog> damn soak that in some ipa
2019-05-07T22:33:34 < Mangy_Dog> get a cottonbud and clean that thing
2019-05-07T22:33:58 < catphish> those are good ideas :)
2019-05-07T22:34:38 < Mangy_Dog> besides while paper itself isnt conductive
2019-05-07T22:34:47 < Mangy_Dog> it can grab contaminants that might be
2019-05-07T22:34:48 < Mangy_Dog> like salt
2019-05-07T22:35:06 < Mangy_Dog> wont be enough to fry the chip but you could get some strange things happen with signals and such
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2019-05-07T22:36:17 < catphish> if i get time i'll wash it properly
2019-05-07T22:37:02 < qyx> ipa and a toothbrush
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2019-05-07T22:37:26 < catphish> oh yeah, that would be ideal!
2019-05-07T22:37:43 < catphish> the paper towel got rid of the flux at least
2019-05-07T22:37:52 < catphish> but left behind that dust
2019-05-07T22:38:08 < catphish> which formed a thick paste with the IPA and set hard
2019-05-07T22:38:31 < Steffanx> haha
2019-05-07T22:38:36 < Steffanx> looks good
2019-05-07T22:42:04 < catphish> it's pretty neat :) https://i.imgur.com/Bk01EwL.jpg
2019-05-07T22:43:03 < zyp> why no power to to the drive?
2019-05-07T22:44:08 < catphish> only because i didn't plug it in
2019-05-07T22:44:21 < zyp> no, on your board, I mean
2019-05-07T22:44:24 < catphish> there's no standard location for the power pins on the drive, so it needs a patch cable
2019-05-07T22:44:33 < zyp> oh, wait
2019-05-07T22:44:37 < catphish> the red port is drive power
2019-05-07T22:44:41 < zyp> right
2019-05-07T22:44:45 < zyp> overlooked that :)
2019-05-07T22:45:05 < catphish> as long as the drive runs on 5v only, which most do
2019-05-07T22:45:26 < catphish> in fact the 12v might be a legacy from 5 1/4" drives :)
2019-05-07T22:51:35 < aandrew> https://jaycarlson.net/microcontrollers
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2019-05-07T23:18:48 < englishman> mawk: im in a place with state monopoly
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2019-05-07T23:49:24 < catphish> just built a project with the new cubeIDE, it built me a fully functional USB CDC
2019-05-07T23:49:28 < catphish> handy
2019-05-07T23:52:30 < qyx> wait what
2019-05-07T23:52:46 < qyx> is it a stm32 3.5" floppy driver?
2019-05-07T23:54:08 < englishman> I hope so
2019-05-07T23:54:14 < englishman> also yes cube is awesome
2019-05-07T23:57:01 < rajkosto> i hate cube generated code with a passion
--- Day changed Wed May 08 2019
2019-05-08T00:00:21 < karlp> bitmask: get one of these kits instead of ordering it all by hand:Þ http://smtzone.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=store01&Category_Code=290
2019-05-08T00:03:05 < karlp> mawk: what does "CPL" stand for when you talk about power meters?
2019-05-08T00:03:25 < bitmask> for those prices are you kidding me?
2019-05-08T00:03:54 < mawk> yeah I forgot to translate the acronym karlp it's PLC
2019-05-08T00:03:59 < mawk> powerline communication
2019-05-08T00:04:19 < bitmask> thats $400 for 3 sizes, yea you get a bit more but no thanks :P
2019-05-08T00:05:43 < karlp> what do you mean for 3 sizes? you don't buy 0603 and 0805 and something else.
2019-05-08T00:06:13 < karlp> they're really nice for having a nice storage case, and having that problem just fucking solved.
2019-05-08T00:09:24 < catphish> qyx: yes
2019-05-08T00:09:52 < catphish> qyx: i wanted a way to copy old amiga floppy disks
2019-05-08T00:10:55 < catphish> rajkosto: i'm really not comfortable using this generated code, it's a huge bulk and i have no idea what most of it is doing behind the scenes, i think i'll go back to trying to figure out how to do it manually
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2019-05-08T00:16:48 < rajkosto> HAL libraries are bloated too
2019-05-08T00:20:18 < Steffanx> Any seller in the EU karlp ?
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2019-05-08T01:18:44 < aandrew> these PTP registers int he STM32 all sound like bill the cat dialogue
2019-05-08T01:18:55 < aandrew> PTPTTHR, PTPTTLR, PTPTSSR
2019-05-08T01:19:45 < aandrew> http://snotnews.reddragontv.tv/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/1522023_690817180949038_1062062659_n.jpg
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2019-05-08T02:01:24 < zyp> haha
2019-05-08T02:09:07 < catphish> oh god i hate compilers, just switched from l476 to l433 and it crashes trying to execute some libc functions i don't understand at startup
2019-05-08T02:09:38 < zyp> like which?
2019-05-08T02:09:38 < catphish> specifically "__libc_init_array"
2019-05-08T02:10:03 < catphish> if i remove it from the startup asm, everything works
2019-05-08T02:10:20 < catphish> but i assume it's there for a reason, and it crashed it an indication of a bigger problem
2019-05-08T02:10:26 < zyp> yes
2019-05-08T02:10:28 < catphish> *it crashing
2019-05-08T02:10:42 < zyp> are you writing C or C++?
2019-05-08T02:10:49 < catphish> C
2019-05-08T02:11:17 < zyp> have you added any attributes to any functions?
2019-05-08T02:11:40 < zyp> like __attribute__((constructor))
2019-05-08T02:11:49 < catphish> i'm using a linker and startup code taken from a cube project, compiling with gcc from arm
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2019-05-08T02:13:00 < zyp> so anyway, the init functions contains a list of pointers to functions to call before executing main()
2019-05-08T02:13:21 < zyp> adding __attribute__((constructor)) to a function gets it added to that list
2019-05-08T02:13:47 < zyp> creating global instances of C++ classes with constructors also gets them added to that list
2019-05-08T02:14:22 < zyp> if you're not doing either in your code, you're probably pulling in some library code that does, I'd guess somewhere in the cube stuff
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2019-05-08T02:17:31 < catphish> well this is embarassing, i deleted lots of code (currently unused functions), and now it works, but i don't know exactly what was causing it to fail
2019-05-08T02:19:05 < catphish> but i'm happy for now :)
2019-05-08T02:19:16 < Thorn> cube-generated linker scripts should have everything __libc_init_array() needs
2019-05-08T02:19:34 < catphish> yeah, it's always woked for me before
2019-05-08T02:20:12 < Thorn> what is the crash? usage fault or what
2019-05-08T02:22:20 < catphish> i don't normally use a debugger do i don't know, it just wasn't executing my main()
2019-05-08T02:22:48 < catphish> i feel a little silly now as this whole thing works now and i have no idea what happened
2019-05-08T02:23:08 < catphish> thanks both though
2019-05-08T02:25:27 < catphish> i shared my project on facebook, people want to give me money, so now i have to finish it :'(
2019-05-08T02:31:39 < specing> Lol
2019-05-08T02:39:11 < catphish> well at least the board and l433 compiler are all working now, i can start again trying to understand USB
2019-05-08T02:39:48 < mawk> st usb lib is a bit convoluted
2019-05-08T02:39:54 < mawk> generated code is around 2k lines
2019-05-08T02:40:16 < mawk> it could be shorter
2019-05-08T02:43:08 < specing> Isn't that on the low side for USB?
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2019-05-08T02:53:54 < catphish> the l433 reference manual actually has a reasnable explanation of how to get the usb peripheral running, just going through it
2019-05-08T02:57:24 < karlp> Steffanx: no idea, we don't use them that fast, we got htem for the office years ago.
2019-05-08T03:02:44 < catphish> i finally tried hand soldering an stm32 today
2019-05-08T03:03:38 < catphish> i failed, but came fairly close, drag soldering worked after adding gallons of flux, it would have been perfect if it werent misaligned on one side
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2019-05-08T03:11:30 < mawk> the usb peripheral is one part cat
2019-05-08T03:11:32 < mawk> catcat
2019-05-08T03:11:35 < mawk> catnothere
2019-05-08T03:13:44 < mawk> why can't I connect a smartcard directly to my stm32 ?
2019-05-08T03:14:00 < mawk> application note talks about using a ST8024 in between
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2019-05-08T03:27:03 < mawk> we missed you Laurenceb_ 
2019-05-08T03:28:23 < Laurenceb_> np
2019-05-08T03:29:33 < mawk> I'm trying to do dma
2019-05-08T03:29:48 < mawk> I asked cubemx to do dma using hal, but he did using LL
2019-05-08T03:33:33 < Laurenceb_> some lulz to cheer you up https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48185348
2019-05-08T03:34:45 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-08T03:34:52 < mawk> ukip is doomed with that guy
2019-05-08T03:35:08 < mawk> especially in puritain-country
2019-05-08T03:35:09 < mawk> aka england
2019-05-08T03:47:59 < Laurenceb_> nah he will probably get it
2019-05-08T03:48:11 < Laurenceb_> proportional representation stuff for MEPs
2019-05-08T03:50:10 < mawk> in france there is no proportionality for MEPs
2019-05-08T03:50:21 < mawk> they made that law especially to prevent the national front from getting to power
2019-05-08T03:50:27 < mawk> so they have like 20% of votes but 3 MEPs
2019-05-08T03:50:28 < mawk> over 577
2019-05-08T03:50:43 < mawk> best democracy
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2019-05-08T04:07:40 < Laurenceb_> interesting https://mobile.twitter.com/FLF_Nick/media/grid?idx=2
2019-05-08T04:08:17 < Laurenceb_> maybe these guys are 4 real
2019-05-08T04:11:43 < Laurenceb_> oh wait thats Z machine
2019-05-08T04:11:46 < Laurenceb_> epic fail
2019-05-08T04:16:57 < Laurenceb_> they are bullshitters as I suspected
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2019-05-08T05:16:00 < Thorn> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-44-1-8-2-0-2-2-2-4-2-8-Inch-TFT-Bare-Screen/32996531464.html
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2019-05-08T12:06:34 < jadew> sup?
2019-05-08T12:13:27 < Steffanx> Sky?
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2019-05-08T16:49:18 < englishman> dongs
2019-05-08T16:49:21 < englishman> Resolved a number of UI issues, including: dialogs not applying the selected UI Theme, dialog not retaining its on-screen location, PCB measurement text not scaling correctly, and poor quality images in the xSignals Wizard.
2019-05-08T16:49:24 < englishman> 19.1 out
2019-05-08T16:52:25 < Steffanx> Its almost time for 20.x
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2019-05-08T17:11:29 < bitmask> HIIII !!!!!!!!!!
2019-05-08T17:14:03 < englishman> dongs: this does NOT fix the import issue
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2019-05-08T17:50:44 < dongs> im not gonna use 19.1 for a while, fuck taht shit.
2019-05-08T17:54:30 < dongs> Generating a Movie File
2019-05-08T17:54:30 < dongs> Movie generation is performed by adding a PCB 3D Video as an Output in an Output Job file, and attaching it to a Video output container. This container supports a broad range of output formats, including AVI, WMV, MP4 and FLV, and others.  
2019-05-08T17:54:35 < dongs> oh
2019-05-08T17:54:36 < dongs> thats why there's libavcodec there
2019-05-08T17:54:37 < dongs> lolz
2019-05-08T18:02:24 < yaqwsx> I have solved the SPI & DMA problem - I was using DMA for writing into an unaligned memory. 
2019-05-08T18:12:07 < rajkosto> i was gonna say that but you said the first 4 bytes were correct
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2019-05-08T18:21:50 < yaqwsx> rajkosto: Well, I observed two behaviors - one preserved first 4 bytes correct (there had to be some other bug). In later phase I probably fixed that and the bug with unaligned memory appeared.
2019-05-08T18:24:03 < yaqwsx> I guess the issue is in my block memory allocator - if I supply unaligned memory to DMA it silently rounds it down - it writes to memory before the memory I specified. This affected metadata of the allocator and it is possible it return random memory from the pool.
2019-05-08T18:24:24 < yaqwsx> It explains why the characters were randomly placed and even repeated.
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2019-05-08T18:39:44 < dongs> why the fuck do you even have an "allocator" on a MCU
2019-05-08T18:40:56 < dongs> in all the time i ever used DMA on stm i've never ran into unaligned thing, how do you even make it happen?
2019-05-08T18:41:08 < dongs> if you use static pre-allocated buffers they're already aligned?
2019-05-08T18:41:18 < karlp> they're using their own allocations, and getting them wrong
2019-05-08T18:41:33 < karlp> so yeah, total user error
2019-05-08T18:41:35 < dongs> or maybe hes doing 32bit wide dma?
2019-05-08T18:41:40 < dongs> i guess that would need to be aligned? or wat
2019-05-08T18:42:12 < dongs> karlp: `im just trying to think how i can fail alignment
2019-05-08T18:42:39 < karlp> they're apparently _asking_ for memory at a location, and then getting it rounded.
2019-05-08T18:42:45 < karlp> so they're not using what they think they're using.
2019-05-08T18:45:51 < rajkosto> you can maybe get unaligned memory if you make a big global buffer with uint8_ts
2019-05-08T18:45:57 < rajkosto> instead of uint32_s
2019-05-08T18:46:05 < rajkosto> and you dont predeclare it with __aligned__
2019-05-08T18:46:22 < dongs> never been a problem for me tho
2019-05-08T18:46:36 < dongs> well, at least for const/ro stuff
2019-05-08T18:46:44 < dongs> i would DMA them in 8 or 16bit modes
2019-05-08T18:46:47 < dongs> and they were alway sok?
2019-05-08T18:46:49 < rajkosto> DMA of words needs to be 32bit aligned iirc
2019-05-08T18:46:51 < dongs> linker/wahtever fixes it?
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2019-05-08T19:07:51 < englishman> dongs: I can't use 19.1 at work due to license issues. the license has to be updated to support 19.1. Time2pirate?
2019-05-08T19:10:19 < Steffanx> Pirated sw at work. Yay
2019-05-08T19:10:36 < englishman> it literally says "license not compatible"
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2019-05-08T19:45:38 < yaqwsx> DMA needs memory aligned to 4 bytes. I use my own allocator to assign statically allocated memory blobs. However, each blob is a struct { uint16_t flags; uint8_t mem[ SIZE ] }. The allocator modifies flags and returns address of mem. Mem is therefore unaligned.
2019-05-08T19:49:21 < yaqwsx> dongs: ↑
2019-05-08T19:53:06 < karlp> aka, user error.
2019-05-08T19:53:11 < bitmask> mmmm booberry cheerios
2019-05-08T20:01:05 < MrMobius> is a boobery like a winery or haberdashery?
2019-05-08T20:08:35 < yaqwsx> karlp: Yep, I have never said it a MCU bug.
2019-05-08T20:08:42 < yaqwsx> *it was
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2019-05-08T20:57:43 < jpa-> yaqwsx: what kind of allocator wouldn't give word-aligned memory blocks by default?
2019-05-08T20:58:49 < jpa-> after all, malloc() and similar pretty much all have specs to return blocks that are aligned to the strictest requirement by the platform
2019-05-08T20:59:15 < yaqwsx> jpa-: See my post from 18:45. I have a statically allocated pool of fixed size memory blocks. I added a header with meta information which broke the alignment.
2019-05-08T20:59:46 < jpa-> ah yeah, so the reason you made a custom one was just to get the pool
2019-05-08T21:00:02 < jpa-> i first thought you made your own because some default allocator wasn't giving aligned memory
2019-05-08T21:00:40 < jpa-> you'll probably want to make that  uint32_t mem[SIZE];  because otherwise the compiler can theoretically put your whole pool into unaligned address
2019-05-08T21:00:49 < jpa-> (SIZE/4)
2019-05-08T21:02:50 < yaqwsx> No, it was the other way around. The project I work on receives and resends packed with a maximum bounded size. Therefore it beneficial for me to have such allocator (and I can avoid dynamic allocation at all).
2019-05-08T21:04:08 < yaqwsx> I think better solution is struct Mem { uint16_t flags = 0; uint8_t mem[ SIZE ] __attribute__(( aligned( 4 ) )); };
2019-05-08T21:21:40 < rajkosto> well without the aligned mem would always be at some +2
2019-05-08T21:34:36 < jpa-> why is non-portable __attribute__ better than C standard way of specifying a datatype with the correct alignment?
2019-05-08T21:34:58 < jpa-> (such as uint32_t if 32-bit alignment is enough)
2019-05-08T21:37:31 < aandrew> now to figure out why my UART code is hardfaulting the system
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2019-05-08T23:34:25 < aandrew> the freertos cmsis wrapper for timers doesn't work
2019-05-08T23:35:44 < aandrew> osTimerCreate() gives you the opportunity to pass an arg to the callback, pretty standard stuff
2019-05-08T23:35:59 < aandrew> however the freertos callback throws the pxTimer struct at the callback in its entirety
2019-05-08T23:36:03 < aandrew> not the pxTimer->timerID
2019-05-08T23:36:14 < aandrew> (which is where the arbitrary arg gets stored)
2019-05-08T23:36:55 < aandrew> so I can either modify the freertos timer expiry code to pass the timerid to the callback, or I can "reach down" through cmsis into freertos and cast/dereference the pxTimer object
2019-05-08T23:37:46 < aandrew> actually this exactly: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/54670228/callback-parameter-in-stm32-freertos-software-timer
2019-05-08T23:38:20 < aandrew> the solution is kind of gay, ugh
2019-05-08T23:38:55 < aandrew> looks like "reach through cmsis" is what they decided to do, breaking the abstration layer entirely
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--- Day changed Thu May 09 2019
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2019-05-09T00:16:41 < mawk> ugly
2019-05-09T00:17:36 < Cracki> aliexpress are buggerers! when I want to add an url to a review/feedback, they say "sorry we're busy check back in 10 minutes"
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2019-05-09T00:24:32 < kakimir> hello dear
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2019-05-09T00:36:02 < karlp> anyone done some cheap compliant 802.3af powered device side stuff?
2019-05-09T00:36:07 < karlp> is there much to it?
2019-05-09T00:40:02 < Steffanx> Cant upgrade to V2 seems to have fixed it, aandrew ?
2019-05-09T00:49:18 < catphish_> the reference manual for the l433 says there should be a USB startup time specified in the datasheet tSTARTUP, but i can't find it, am i being blind? anyone know what this value is?
2019-05-09T00:49:34 < catphish_> "This circuit has a defined startup time (t STARTUP specified in the datasheet)"
2019-05-09T00:50:59 < zyp> karlp, only looked at doing it, IIRC you need a bridge rectifier, some ID chip and an isolated regulator
2019-05-09T00:51:35 < catphish_> well it's 1-2us in other chips, so i'll give it a few us to be safe :)
2019-05-09T00:53:57 < karlp> yeah, just had a look at some app notes from silabs and ti, doesn't lookk terrrrrribly complicated
2019-05-09T00:54:18 < karlp> not sure if I actually want tto anyway.
2019-05-09T00:55:31 < karlp> for under 10W, si34061 even has integrated bridges.
2019-05-09T00:55:43 < karlp> I bet EMC makes it all a lot more pleasant of course :)
2019-05-09T01:05:54 < zyp> karlp, cute
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2019-05-09T02:06:50 < mawk> https://pix.watch/a2CC0B/kcWnQX.jpeg
2019-05-09T02:14:42 < kakimir> what you hacking
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2019-05-09T02:18:55 < mawk> just trying to talk to it
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2019-05-09T02:24:16 < kakimir> is it like i2c or something?
2019-05-09T02:25:26 < mawk> more like uart
2019-05-09T02:25:29 < mawk> uart with clock
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2019-05-09T02:37:50 < kakimir> spi?
2019-05-09T02:52:46 < mawk> spi is special, with the enable pin and stuff
2019-05-09T02:52:55 < mawk> but yeah I guess
2019-05-09T02:53:23 < mawk> anyway they're all simple protocols are can be transformed into each other
2019-05-09T02:55:55 < Thorn> send_command(CHANGE_BALANCE, 10000);
2019-05-09T02:58:21 < mawk> lol
2019-05-09T02:59:40 < kakimir> you are so moddest
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2019-05-09T03:23:56 < Laurenceb_> Prince Ngubu 
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2019-05-09T03:28:41 < Laurenceb_> is there a treatment for chronic incelitis?
2019-05-09T03:30:03 < mawk> yes, https://www.6annonce.com/
2019-05-09T03:30:15 < mawk> or craigslist
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2019-05-09T04:13:57 < jadew> mawk, managed to talk to it?
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2019-05-09T04:20:35 < mawk> I've not tried it yet
2019-05-09T04:20:44 < mawk> but I guess I'll be able to yeah
2019-05-09T04:20:49 < mawk> docs seem explicit enough
2019-05-09T04:21:26 < jadew> a tool I've developed 5 years ago can also talk that and I was looking through the code, it's quite a lot
2019-05-09T04:21:36 < jadew> and it seems I wasn't big on note taking back then
2019-05-09T04:22:04 < jadew> I don't know wth I've done there
2019-05-09T04:24:53 < mawk> lol
2019-05-09T04:26:04 < jadew> http://188.25.72.87/stuff/pt.txt
2019-05-09T04:28:15 < mawk> nice
2019-05-09T04:29:05 < jadew> was a nice tool, I hope I'll get back to it at some point
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2019-05-09T05:39:18 < jadew> mawk, is the yellow vest thing still going on?
2019-05-09T05:42:40 < jadew> uhm... I see they're flying communist flags
2019-05-09T05:42:43 < jadew> wtf?
2019-05-09T05:47:48 < jadew> ah, seems like it's a mixture so maybe those guys just happen to be there
2019-05-09T05:56:54 < dongs> haha oh wow
2019-05-09T05:57:18 < dongs> altiuim just spammed me, i can get a new license for 19 at 45% off by switching from Eagle license
2019-05-09T05:57:25 < dongs> they can't be possibly THAT scared of that maker shit lmao
2019-05-09T05:58:11 < jadew> maybe they have shares with eagle and want to boost their sales
2019-05-09T05:58:17 < dongs> haha
2019-05-09T05:58:32 < jadew> nobody uses that shit anymore
2019-05-09T06:01:08 < jadew> has it gotten better?
2019-05-09T06:01:29 < jadew> it changed hands a couple of times already isn't it? maybe it picked up some killer features
2019-05-09T06:01:49 < dongs> still by autodesk, i think they've finally enabled ~saving to the cloud~ in newer versions
2019-05-09T06:02:08 < dongs> i pirated eagle 7.someshit portable .exe so I could open some retarded maker shit and the GUI was just as useless as it was 10 years ago
2019-05-09T06:04:07 < aandrew> I have a legit eagle ... 7? license? last before autodesk bought them
2019-05-09T06:04:13 < aandrew> haven't opened it in years
2019-05-09T06:04:41 < jadew> I used the free version once or twice
2019-05-09T06:04:45 < jadew> do they still have a free one?
2019-05-09T06:04:48 < aandrew> nope
2019-05-09T06:04:49 < aandrew> 6.6.0
2019-05-09T06:04:58 < aandrew> that's my licensed version
2019-05-09T06:05:12 < jadew> that's the only reason people used it, it was free
2019-05-09T06:05:14 < dongs> https://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/compare
2019-05-09T06:05:17 < dongs> na there's free shit still
2019-05-09T06:05:20 < dongs> make:r grade
2019-05-09T06:05:22 < aandrew> I'd jump from altium to kicad probably in the next 3 years
2019-05-09T06:05:26 < aandrew> at the rate of development
2019-05-09T06:05:44 < dongs> ooh they don't have a fixed term license anymore either
2019-05-09T06:05:45 < aandrew> altium generates far more bugs, but kicad is missing several features I consider essential
2019-05-09T06:05:45 < jadew> aandrew, kicad is not going as fast as I'd like
2019-05-09T06:05:46 < dongs> its all /year shit
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2019-05-09T06:06:06 < aandrew> dongs: yeah they got rid of offline use too
2019-05-09T06:06:09 < aandrew> that's the #1 reason why I dropped it
2019-05-09T06:06:19 < aandrew> fuck if I'm going to *require* license checks
2019-05-09T06:06:21 < jadew> you can only save into the cloud?
2019-05-09T06:06:22 < dongs> oh you gotta connect to autocucks to open it?
2019-05-09T06:06:28 < dongs> jadew: no its an option
2019-05-09T06:06:30 < dongs> you can save locally
2019-05-09T06:06:35 < dongs> oh, i donno about free one
2019-05-09T06:06:37 < aandrew> you can save loclly I think, but you have to be connected to use it
2019-05-09T06:07:04 < jadew> what's the downside for circuit maker again?
2019-05-09T06:07:11 < dongs> thats the downside.
2019-05-09T06:07:11 < jadew> are all the designs open?
2019-05-09T06:07:13 < aandrew> don't know. cloud I thought
2019-05-09T06:07:19 < aandrew> haven't used it, won't use it
2019-05-09T06:07:22 < dongs> cloud saves and completely different menus/hotkeys from altium
2019-05-09T06:07:50 < jadew> but can you at least have private stuff? IIRC there was something about everything being open
2019-05-09T06:08:21 < dongs> no private stuff in free shit
2019-05-09T06:08:28 < dongs> circuitmaker pro or whatever is fine
2019-05-09T06:08:29 < jadew> thought so
2019-05-09T06:08:47 < jadew> what happens when you stop paying? they open your designs? :P
2019-05-09T06:08:52 < dongs> haha
2019-05-09T06:08:54 < dongs> or delete them
2019-05-09T06:09:08 < dongs> hm altium open day tomorrow but in fucking tokyo
2019-05-09T06:09:13 < dongs> not going,.
2019-05-09T06:09:38 < jadew> maybe they'll give you a discount code
2019-05-09T06:10:29 < dongs> sure, they usually do
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2019-05-09T06:21:46 < dongs> https://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/features heh all the videos there is basicaly shit you can do in altium all day long
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2019-05-09T06:29:04 < dongs> R2DONGS do you play apex
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2019-05-09T08:14:58 < dongs> which is the shittiest jewblox that has PPS output
2019-05-09T08:15:03 < dongs> does neo8m or whatever have it?
2019-05-09T08:15:15 < dongs> or i need the T version for timing
2019-05-09T08:15:39 < Cracki> do any of them _not_ have this?
2019-05-09T08:15:45 < dongs> yes
2019-05-09T08:16:45 < Cracki> curious
2019-05-09T08:17:59 < Cracki> they call it "timepulse", configurable
2019-05-09T08:18:01 < qyx> your quacktel L76 is cheap and precise and 1PPS
2019-05-09T08:18:04 < Cracki> the m8 haz it
2019-05-09T08:18:13 < dongs> qyx, i already have EC25
2019-05-09T08:18:16 < dongs> and it HAS a fucking GPS inside
2019-05-09T08:18:20 < dongs> but no pps output
2019-05-09T08:18:23 < dongs> what a fucking waste
2019-05-09T08:18:42 < dongs> so i literally haev to put a fucking external GPS just to fucking get pps
2019-05-09T08:18:46 < qyx> hah
2019-05-09T08:18:47 < Cracki> kek
2019-05-09T08:19:09 < dongs> qyx is L76 in china?
2019-05-09T08:19:46 < qyx> idk, it is 8e here so probably $2 in china
2019-05-09T08:22:05 < qyx> ec25 is the iot-lte thing?
2019-05-09T08:22:43 < qyx> no it is cat4 LTE
2019-05-09T08:23:54 < dongs> no, its proper lte
2019-05-09T08:45:05 < dongs> motherfucking 3dcucktentcentral
2019-05-09T08:45:13 < dongs> im almost certain they reset or trashed my password
2019-05-09T08:45:24 < dongs> fuck sites that need login for irrelevant shit
2019-05-09T08:46:14 < dongs> wait is L76 fucking MTK?
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2019-05-09T09:34:04 < dongs> huh, it has 2.8V I/O?
2019-05-09T09:34:08 < dongs> what is this trash lol
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2019-05-09T12:54:26 < catphish> i know i've been whining about this for days, and i don't expect anyone to care, but USB really is hard, if i create a project with stmcube and its libraries, usb works perfectly, but i can't get even the tiniest bit of life out of it when i try to configure it myself
2019-05-09T12:58:07 < Steffanx> Did you read the chapter at least 5 times?
2019-05-09T12:58:17 < Steffanx> Every tiny detail?
2019-05-09T12:58:22 < catphish> not yet :(
2019-05-09T12:58:45 < Steffanx> Then you should whine so much :P
2019-05-09T12:58:51 < catphish> i've read the first page about reset and startup about that many times, but probably lots more reading to do
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2019-05-09T13:03:17  * kakimir <3 uart
2019-05-09T13:03:20 < zyp> I warned you that dwc_otg is a complex beast :p
2019-05-09T13:03:36 < zyp> you could have went with a part with st_usbfs instead
2019-05-09T13:06:26 < englishman> dongs altium ceo has forecast aggressive growth in the next few years
2019-05-09T13:06:30 < englishman> like impossible growth numbers
2019-05-09T13:06:38 < englishman> to pump and dump his stock before he retires
2019-05-09T13:06:51 < englishman> so they will do some crazy shit in the next few years as their software gets worse
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2019-05-09T13:09:19 < englishman> and yeah you need T series gps at 2x price
2019-05-09T13:15:38 < zyp> catphish, so anyway, where are you stuck?
2019-05-09T13:26:40 < dongs> just use zyp's code
2019-05-09T13:26:54 < dongs> wrap it away with C if y ou dont want c++ and just never touch whats inside :)
2019-05-09T13:32:24 < catphish> zyp: so far i have enabled the HSI48, get confirmation it's stable, enable the AHB USB clock, deassert the USB analog shutdown, wait 10us, deassert the usb forced reset, at that point i get a reset interrupt, pretty sure this is from the forced reset, not from the host, then i try to configure EP0R, but that always just reads back zero
2019-05-09T13:33:09 < catphish> this behaviour is the same whether i configire GPIOA or not, so pretty sure the USB host isn't involved yet
2019-05-09T13:33:43 < zyp> why are you trying to configure EP0R at that point?
2019-05-09T13:34:07 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usb/dwc_otg.h#n137 <- you're somewhere in here, right?
2019-05-09T13:34:12 < catphish> my understanding was that configuring EP0R was the next thing to do after getting a reset
2019-05-09T13:35:18 < catphish> zyp: i've got to do some dayjob now, but i'll read that code in detail later and compare to what i'm doing
2019-05-09T13:36:01 < catphish> thanks for the endless patience, i've been reading so many sources i suspect i haven't read that example code properly
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2019-05-09T13:47:42 < Steffanx> I like how you dont use bit names etc. but still take the effort to add them in comments below it zyp :P
2019-05-09T13:47:57 < Steffanx> Sometimes.
2019-05-09T13:51:32 < zyp> Steffanx, I actually think one of my friends did that, not me
2019-05-09T13:51:56 < zyp> I usually add them on the end of the same line, not the line below
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2019-05-09T14:52:12 < jpa-> you let your friends poke around with your code?
2019-05-09T14:52:50 < zyp> don't you?
2019-05-09T14:53:33 < BrainDamage> doesn't it feel like a violation of intimacy?
2019-05-09T14:54:44 < Steffanx> Not if it happened in a sauna
2019-05-09T14:55:03 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/suzumebachi/commit/?id=d734fc1
2019-05-09T14:55:59 < Steffanx> Heh there you go
2019-05-09T14:57:44 < englishman> wow that looks messy
2019-05-09T14:57:57 < jadew> why don't you use the bit names directly tho?
2019-05-09T14:57:58 < englishman> do you even bitmask
2019-05-09T14:59:56 < englishman> OTG_FS.reg.GUSBCFG = FDMOD | WHATEVER
2019-05-09T14:59:58 < englishman> etc
2019-05-09T15:00:25 < zyp> too lazy to define names
2019-05-09T15:00:25 < englishman> hard to read, hard to port
2019-05-09T15:00:48 < englishman> you actually have to count etc
2019-05-09T15:01:12 < jadew> zyp, they should already be defined
2019-05-09T15:01:25 < Steffanx> Count what englishman?
2019-05-09T15:01:31 < zyp> jadew, not in laks, they are not
2019-05-09T15:01:33 < jpa-> not when you rewrite the base libs in c++
2019-05-09T15:01:52 < jadew> zyp, ah
2019-05-09T15:02:20 < jadew> jpa-, I did that too, but I kept using the header file that came with the toolchain
2019-05-09T15:02:53 < jpa-> with.. #defines? that'll make your c++ code so unclean
2019-05-09T15:03:06 < jpa-> next you'll find yourself calling printf()
2019-05-09T15:03:09 < jadew> it'll be a lot cleaner than random numbers
2019-05-09T15:03:43 < jadew> for one, if you decide to switch to a different device, which might have different mapping or perhaps different requirements (so different define names), the code won't compile (which is good)
2019-05-09T15:04:00 < jadew> while if you don't use those defines, it won't complain at all
2019-05-09T15:04:22 < jadew> so... it's better than nothing
2019-05-09T15:05:57 < jpa-> as long as you never use names like SET, ENABLE or DISABLE in your code
2019-05-09T15:06:31 < jadew> those are defined in the stm32 header files?
2019-05-09T15:06:44 < jpa-> yeah
2019-05-09T15:07:18 < jadew> you can undef them :P
2019-05-09T15:07:33 < jpa-> or edit the header file.. or just write numbers when you read the refman
2019-05-09T15:07:50 < jpa-> it's not like you'll remember what TRDT does without the refman anyway
2019-05-09T15:08:24 < jpa-> and once such low level code works, if you need to debug it you'll have to check the bits anyway as sometimes there are errors in the defines
2019-05-09T15:08:47 < jadew> jpa-, yeah, but there are two problems there: 1) you have to count, like englishman said. 2) you have to trust that you counted correctly. 3) if you change to a similar device that is not exactly similar, the code might compile, when it shouldn't
2019-05-09T15:09:01 < zyp> count what?
2019-05-09T15:09:03 < jadew> because TRDT is no longer TRDT, but it's now TRDT0 and TRDT1
2019-05-09T15:09:12 < jadew> zyp, count bits in the register, from the manual
2019-05-09T15:09:20 < zyp> they are labelled
2019-05-09T15:09:23 < jadew> true
2019-05-09T15:09:27 < jadew> ok, not count, but still
2019-05-09T15:09:27 < zyp> no counting needed
2019-05-09T15:09:43 < jadew> I'd rather have a name than a number
2019-05-09T15:09:53 < jpa-> it will save some time in porting, but you'll need to test anyway and are just as likely to have new bits that have to be set
2019-05-09T15:10:01 < jadew> I mean... you said it yourself, you add the name on the line before, in a comment
2019-05-09T15:10:07 < jadew> so you must see the utility
2019-05-09T15:11:37 < jadew> jpa-, consider this: you start porting your code and now you have to change the initialization so it works on the new device
2019-05-09T15:11:58 < jadew> on the old one you did x = (1 << 2) | (1 << 5) | etc.
2019-05-09T15:12:07 < jadew> how do you map that without reading BOTH manuals?
2019-05-09T15:12:31 < jadew> you can't, while if they had names, you could just read the new one and be like... "ok, this looks right"
2019-05-09T15:12:36 < jadew> or "I need a new bit here"
2019-05-09T15:13:53 < zyp> so what you're saying is that my code is not portable?
2019-05-09T15:14:27 < jadew> it's more difficult to port and when testing it adds extra uncertainty
2019-05-09T15:15:03 < jadew> if something goes wrong and you don't have the actual labels there, you might start second guessing the bit numbers (which you should)
2019-05-09T15:15:15 < jadew> but that's different than second guessing the configuration
2019-05-09T15:15:25 < jadew> it's an extra thing you have to worry about
2019-05-09T15:16:05 < jadew> forgot a comma after "when testing"
2019-05-09T15:16:48 < zyp> I mean, so far I've had my usb stack running on f0, f1, f3, f4, l0, wb in addition to nrf52840 and at some point ti lm4f, but the latter was so shit to work with I never finished it
2019-05-09T15:16:57 < zyp> so I'm not too worried about the portability of that code
2019-05-09T15:17:58 < zyp> although to be specific, the dwc_otg driver in particular is only used on f4 out of those
2019-05-09T15:18:43 < jadew> how do you deal with the register differences?
2019-05-09T15:18:56 < jadew> (when starting to support a new device)
2019-05-09T15:19:22 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usb <- different lowlevel drivers that ties into a common higher level stack
2019-05-09T15:19:59 < zyp> the nrf driver is still a work in progress, so it hasn't entered the repository yet
2019-05-09T15:21:13 < jadew> for completely different ICs I guess this wouldn't be a problem, but for stuff from the same company I think it would come in handy, especially if they're similar enough that you can copy/paste that low level driver
2019-05-09T15:21:51 < zyp> l0_usb is mostly copypasted from f1_usb
2019-05-09T15:22:18 < zyp> naming is pretty silly, I'll rename them to st_usbfs_v1 and st_usbfs_v2 at some point
2019-05-09T15:23:56 < jadew> are the header files under some stupid license or are there other reasons for not using what's in there?
2019-05-09T15:25:41 < zyp> not being dependent on third party shit is a big one
2019-05-09T15:26:13 < jadew> that's why I asked about the license, you might just be able to copy the code and make it yours forever
2019-05-09T15:26:34 < zyp> why would I want to?
2019-05-09T15:26:49 < jadew> so you get named bits :)
2019-05-09T15:27:45 < zyp> if I wanted named bits, I might as well just grab them from the RM or .svd files or something
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2019-05-09T15:32:25 < karlp> jadew: I'm generally with you, but it's like things like TRTDT are going to move to a new bit, but still be compatible in meaning either.
2019-05-09T15:32:39 < karlp> if you're porting where the bits have nmoved, you're going to be needing new bits anyway
2019-05-09T15:33:50 < zyp> the problem I have with defining bits is how to namespace it sanely
2019-05-09T15:34:10 < zyp> too much namespacing and it gets way too verbose to type out, too little namespacing and you get collisions
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2019-05-09T15:42:21 < karlp> I'm trying to cleanup shit like pages of ADC_SMPR1_SMPxx_MSK things right now, would have been better to have not been defined.
2019-05-09T15:42:42 < zyp> that's my point too
2019-05-09T15:42:59 < zyp> I don't have anything against defining names, I just think it's better not to do it than to do it badly
2019-05-09T15:43:30 < karlp> I've very close to just deleting them all.
2019-05-09T15:43:55 < zyp> if there were a way to define a name that would be valid without namespace prefix only in a relevant context, that would probably be a good way to do it
2019-05-09T15:44:30 < karlp> they're not used to simplify any library code, they're just reems of pasta
2019-05-09T15:45:19 < zyp> and IMO it's better to put effort into making an easy user api, not a verbose register api
2019-05-09T16:00:30 < jadew> zyp, you can import namespaces in the current scope too
2019-05-09T16:00:47 < jadew> so you could define them in the correct namespace, and still not be verbose when typing them out
2019-05-09T16:00:52 < zyp> I'm well aware how C++ namespaces work
2019-05-09T16:00:59 < jadew> I do get the verbosity aspect tho
2019-05-09T16:08:35 < karlp> s/reem/ream/
2019-05-09T16:33:07 < jadew> https://info.tek.com/www-new-gen-scope-june4-wc-ty.html
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2019-05-09T17:09:46 < jhg4[m]> hey
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2019-05-09T17:10:11 < jhg4[m]> has anyone played with DAPLink from the Mbed folks?
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2019-05-09T17:30:56 < Thorn> where do I find docs for these displays (esp larger ones) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-44-1-8-2-0-2-2-2-4-2-8-Inch-TFT-Bare-Screen/32996531464.html
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2019-05-09T17:32:23 < dongs> what dosc?
2019-05-09T17:32:25 < dongs> docs
2019-05-09T17:32:35 < dongs> its ILI9341 or wahtever and pinout the chinks send you
2019-05-09T17:32:37 < dongs> when you ask
2019-05-09T17:32:40 < dongs> or when you google
2019-05-09T17:34:18 < Thorn> what about drawings so I can make a pattern and place the pads properly relative to the display outline
2019-05-09T17:34:49 < dongs> just ask seller for datasheet i guess?
2019-05-09T17:34:51 < dongs> i mean they do exist
2019-05-09T17:34:58 < dongs> im using some chink ILI9341thing and i have  full datasheet for it
2019-05-09T17:35:03 < dongs> including init sequence and shit
2019-05-09T17:35:34 < Thorn> controller datasheets can be found yes
2019-05-09T17:35:38 < dongs> not controller
2019-05-09T17:35:40 < dongs> the panel
2019-05-09T17:42:06 < Thorn> ok I'll try asking
2019-05-09T17:43:42 < jadew> http://188.25.72.87/stuff/purcel.jpg
2019-05-09T17:44:29 < jadew> (I might have posted that before, but it's freaking hilarious)
2019-05-09T17:44:38 < dongs> you havent
2019-05-09T17:44:40 < dongs> but its still unfunnyt
2019-05-09T17:45:06 < jadew> that's the best piggy bank ever
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2019-05-09T18:00:46 < friendofafriend> Oh ILI9341, you're no fun when you're not in SPI mode.
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2019-05-09T18:16:05 < Thorn> holy cow I'm watching Rossmann repalr a macbook instead of finishing my pcb and he takes like 3 seconds to lift a component with hot air and he isn't even using a preheater. what kind of temperature setting is he using, 600°C?
2019-05-09T18:16:42 < jadew> maybe the board is already hot?
2019-05-09T18:18:35 < Thorn> unless he took it out of an oven before starting filming...
2019-05-09T18:18:46 < jadew> I'm not a fan of his stuff
2019-05-09T18:18:50 < dongs> Thorn you stupid fucking nigger
2019-05-09T18:18:53 < dongs> why are you watching jew rossman shit
2019-05-09T18:18:56 < dongs> just kill yourself instead
2019-05-09T18:19:01 < dongs> and stop giving that faggot views
2019-05-09T18:19:15 < dongs> FUCK ROSSMAN; ROSSMAN SUX; ROSSMAN IS DYING; ROSSMAN IS DEAD TO ME; ROSSMAN HIT WTC
2019-05-09T18:19:18 < jadew> some of his rants are entertaining, but the technical content is non-existent
2019-05-09T18:19:21 < dongs> no
2019-05-09T18:19:23 < zyp> haha
2019-05-09T18:19:36 < zyp> I don't even know who you're referring to
2019-05-09T18:19:44 < dongs> you don't need to, thats the bst part
2019-05-09T18:19:46 < zyp> and I'd like to keep it that way
2019-05-09T18:19:49 < dongs> correct
2019-05-09T18:19:52 < Thorn> zyp is playing it safe
2019-05-09T18:20:00 < jadew> zyp, some guy with an inflated ego, fixing phones on youtube
2019-05-09T18:20:03 < jadew> sorry, not phones
2019-05-09T18:20:07 < jadew> apple macbooks
2019-05-09T18:20:09 < dongs> a faggot
2019-05-09T18:20:09 < zyp> you missed what I said
2019-05-09T18:20:21 < dongs> using stolen service manuals
2019-05-09T18:20:24 < dongs> openly
2019-05-09T18:20:35 < jadew> ah, I didn't read that line, yes, you're not losing anything
2019-05-09T18:21:18 < dongs> motherfucker WHERE THE FUCK IS THE PREF TO TURN OFF TRACE DRAGGING IN ALTIFUCK 19
2019-05-09T18:21:22 < dongs> when you drag components
2019-05-09T18:21:24 < dongs> R A G E
2019-05-09T18:22:17 < dongs> 'move component with relevant routing'
2019-05-09T18:22:18 < dongs> maybe this
2019-05-09T18:23:02 < dongs> yeah thats it
2019-05-09T18:24:00 < Thorn> also no kapton tape on other components that are close
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2019-05-09T18:33:07 < jadew> Thorn, if they're not plastic components and he doesn't bump the board when it's reflowing, it shouldn't be a problem
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2019-05-09T18:38:40 < jadew> found porn on youtube, uploaded in 2015
2019-05-09T18:38:53 < dongs> gay porn?
2019-05-09T18:39:10 < jadew> no, some stripper dancing, and another one licking her
2019-05-09T18:42:40 < mawk> don't make us salivate for nothing we all thought it was gay porn
2019-05-09T18:43:45 < dongs> anyone know if mini-pcie hole location is standard
2019-05-09T18:44:43 < mawk> yes
2019-05-09T18:44:45 < mawk> it's standard
2019-05-09T18:45:12 < mawk> https://pix.watch/6VRjSG/L8lH4V.png
2019-05-09T18:45:24 < dongs> cpp;
2019-05-09T18:45:25 < dongs> cool
2019-05-09T18:45:33 < dongs> where'
2019-05-09T18:45:39 < dongs> s the center of that edge connector measured from?
2019-05-09T18:45:44 < dongs> center of mpcie socket?
2019-05-09T18:47:15 < mawk> it's around page 17 https://s3.amazonaws.com/fit-iot/download/facet-cards/documents/PCI_Express_miniCard_Electromechanical_specs_rev1.2.pdf
2019-05-09T18:47:54 < dongs> Depth of card slot and orientation post
2019-05-09T18:47:55 < dongs> centerlines must be aligned by ± 0.05.
2019-05-09T18:47:55 < dongs> ok
2019-05-09T18:48:00 < dongs> so center
2019-05-09T18:48:09 < dongs> same like DDR2
2019-05-09T18:49:20 < Thorn> what is the point of edit->move->component? it seems to be the same as simply dragging a component
2019-05-09T18:49:55 < dongs> ? 
2019-05-09T18:49:57 < dongs> i dont have such menu'
2019-05-09T18:53:04 < karlp> Thorn: just edited the video surely?
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2019-05-09T19:00:31 < bitmask> herro
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2019-05-09T19:19:06 < Thorn> karlp: very unlikely
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2019-05-09T19:49:41 < Thorn> TIL: while routing a track you an press 1/2/etc. on the number pad to switch to a layer (that's why signal layers under the pcb editor window have (1) (2) etc. after their names)
2019-05-09T19:49:54 < Thorn> or press ctrl+L and a menu will pop up
2019-05-09T19:51:21 < Thorn> is anybody using PADS btw? seems like routing is more automated there
2019-05-09T19:54:45 < dongs> i just use +/- on numpad bound to side mouse buttons
2019-05-09T19:54:51 < dongs> to go up/down layers
2019-05-09T19:55:07 < dongs> ya but pads is gay
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2019-05-09T20:15:00 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9DfSCk-6Ko music video
2019-05-09T20:36:57 < Mangy_Dog> 60fps still feels weried
2019-05-09T20:38:26 < Mangy_Dog> and some one did a heck of a lot of motion graphics
2019-05-09T20:38:33 < Mangy_Dog> not sure i would have had the patiance to do that much
2019-05-09T20:38:35 < Mangy_Dog> for one video
2019-05-09T20:40:11 < kakimir> looks trivial
2019-05-09T20:40:56 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2019-05-09T20:41:00 < Mangy_Dog> it really isnt
2019-05-09T20:41:11 < Mangy_Dog> and its a fairly laborous process
2019-05-09T20:50:31 < Simon--> the vp9 of that video looks way better than the larger avc1
2019-05-09T20:57:01 < kakimir> well it's a laborous process
2019-05-09T20:57:15 < kakimir> but what I see is only animated vector graphics
2019-05-09T20:58:10 < kakimir> what I think is the hardest part is to come up with the transitions
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2019-05-09T21:10:16 < Mangy_Dog> the transisions are a huge amount of work alone
2019-05-09T21:10:24 < Mangy_Dog> the basic vectors arent so hard
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2019-05-09T21:24:33 < kakimir> retrofuturism
2019-05-09T21:25:00 < kakimir> a word I have been looking for a while
2019-05-09T21:27:56 < kakimir> google image search "retrofuturism art"
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2019-05-09T21:48:00 < Steffanx> kakimism
2019-05-09T21:49:24 < kakimir> I was a meme before it was cool
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2019-05-09T21:51:56 < catphish> zyp: by the way, i just looked at your code, it seems like there's no way i have a dwc, i just don't have the registers referenced in that code, however i then read the init code in your f1_usb and that looks exactly like how my chip works
2019-05-09T21:52:28 < catphish> ie CNTR = 3; CNTR = 1; CNTR = 0; is the init process for this chip
2019-05-09T21:52:50 < catphish> whereas i don't have a register called GUSBCFG
2019-05-09T21:53:33 < catphish> could just as easily be the l0 version, or something different again, i'll see which one works
2019-05-09T22:09:30 < karlp> you're working on l4 right?
2019-05-09T22:10:02 < karlp> you _definitely_ have the dwc_otg core.
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2019-05-09T22:15:35 < catphish> yes it's an l4
2019-05-09T22:16:15 < karlp> which l4, just so I',m not going silly here...
2019-05-09T22:17:01 < catphish> l433cb
2019-05-09T22:17:17 < catphish> it doesn't explicitly name the usb peripheral in the datasheet
2019-05-09T22:17:27 < qyx> recently I came around a mcu with device only usb
2019-05-09T22:17:43 < qyx> idk now if it wasn't L4
2019-05-09T22:18:46 < qyx> yeah L432 has USB device only
2019-05-09T22:19:12 < catphish> yeah this one is pretty simple, device only, clock recovery magic
2019-05-09T22:19:55 < karlp> gnarly, they have the stusbfs on that l4.
2019-05-09T22:19:58 < karlp> hahahah
2019-05-09T22:20:02 < karlp> thanks for fucking nothing st.
2019-05-09T22:20:27 < catphish> but how do i make it talk? :'(
2019-05-09T22:20:37 < karlp> that's on you.
2019-05-09T22:20:42 < karlp> you're the one who wanted to do it all by hand.
2019-05-09T22:21:08 < karlp> you can use zyps example code, or the locm3 example code, I don't mind, or just keep reading the ref mans until your nose bleeds or your device enumerates.
2019-05-09T22:21:18 < qyx> grumpl
2019-05-09T22:21:42 < karlp> I'm not sure whether you have the v1 or the v2 though.
2019-05-09T22:22:51 < karlp> f0 and l0 and _some_ f3s have the v2, and actually, lcom3 already includes the st_usbfs v2 for l4 builds.
2019-05-09T22:23:27 < karlp> l476 and friends have the dwc_otg core.
2019-05-09T22:24:27 < karlp> or, "RM351 has dwc_otg, RM0394 has st_usbfs_v2, and the L4+ in RM0432 has dwc_otg too"
2019-05-09T22:24:27 < catphish> yeah 476 is my go to dev board, but i didn't want to waste time, so i went straight to developing on my finished board which has l433, glad i did
2019-05-09T22:24:39 < catphish> mine is RM0394
2019-05-09T22:24:56 < catphish> karlp: thanks!
2019-05-09T22:25:29 < catphish> is that what zyp calls l0?
2019-05-09T22:25:42 < catphish> seems like it is
2019-05-09T22:26:00 < karlp> l0, f0 also have the st_usbfs_v2. yes.
2019-05-09T22:26:34 < karlp> iirc v1 vs v2 only matter for the packet buffers, so after you've enumerated, but it will matter eventually.
2019-05-09T22:27:26 < catphish> well then this shouldn't be *that* hard :)
2019-05-09T22:27:48 < karlp> choices of where you want to build wheels...
2019-05-09T22:45:23 < qyx> yesterday I ordered some lichee pi or whatever it was
2019-05-09T22:45:28 < qyx> with allwinner f1c100s
2019-05-09T22:45:34 < qyx> the fuk is the cpu
2019-05-09T22:46:26 < qyx> "The F series is not supported by the linux-sunxi community due to lack of developers and hardware"
2019-05-09T22:46:38 < qyx> I should have read that before
2019-05-09T22:48:39 < qyx> it seems it got linux support in early 2018
2019-05-09T22:48:54 < qyx> ~1000 lines of code, it took nearly 8 years
2019-05-09T22:51:56 < karlp> well, they were ~unobtainium too.
2019-05-09T22:52:00 < catphish> i would always go with the h3, simple, well supported
2019-05-09T22:52:08 < karlp> h3 is super well supported and modern
2019-05-09T22:52:10 < catphish> and cheap as hell for a 1GHz quad core
2019-05-09T22:52:17 < karlp> what about the f1 shit was appealing for you? ram in package?
2019-05-09T22:52:34 < catphish> ram in package *is* a sexy offer
2019-05-09T22:53:05 < karlp> to a point,
2019-05-09T22:53:11 < karlp> I mean, an avr has ram in package, but....
2019-05-09T22:53:56 < catphish> ooo lets move to AVR
2019-05-09T23:00:35 < kakimir> AVR mentioned
2019-05-09T23:00:56  * catphish buys AVRs
2019-05-09T23:03:06 < qyx> karlp: because dram SIP, pins--
2019-05-09T23:04:26 < qyx> basically a great combination would be L4+ with hyperbus DRAM if it had a MMU
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2019-05-09T23:05:09 < qyx> because neat, small, low power, etc etc
2019-05-09T23:05:31 < karlp> did I mention v3s to you? still allwinner, 97% sure still ram in package, but actually ~current instead of this "look what some dude in china found a reeel of" like the f1c100 stuff is.
2019-05-09T23:06:20 < qyx> yeah
2019-05-09T23:06:44 < qyx> I investigated it a bit too
2019-05-09T23:08:21 < kakimir> how absurd it is that I'm scared of greek letters used in mathematical equations
2019-05-09T23:08:31 < kakimir> as if a symbol could hurt me
2019-05-09T23:08:40 < qyx> 3 of 5
2019-05-09T23:13:03 < kakimir> what a shame
2019-05-09T23:14:54 < kakimir> now I know why I pity myself
2019-05-09T23:16:55 < kakimir> I asked my friend things that are my weaknesses
2019-05-09T23:17:27 < kakimir> that is dope that I can ask someone such thing and they come back with a list
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2019-05-09T23:31:23 < zyp> catphish, oh, then you should have no problem getting it going
2019-05-09T23:33:32 < zyp> l4 with the device only core should be equivalent to stm32wb
2019-05-09T23:33:42 < zyp> (since stm32wb is pretty much l4 with a radio)
2019-05-09T23:33:54 < zyp> and I had my code going on wb just fine
2019-05-09T23:34:04 < catphish> zyp: thanks, do you happen to have a complete example of an app that uses this?
2019-05-09T23:34:20 < zyp> my code?
2019-05-09T23:34:24 < catphish> there are some things that aren't clear to me, for example whether i have to manually configure the pullup
2019-05-09T23:34:28 < catphish> zyp: yeah
2019-05-09T23:35:12 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/k2dpG <- here's the code I ran on WB
2019-05-09T23:35:24 < catphish> thanks!
2019-05-09T23:35:49 < zyp> that PWR.CR2 had me stuck for a while, and I ran into the same issue as you with the endpoint register ignoring writes
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2019-05-09T23:35:55 < zyp> so that's probably what you're missing
2019-05-09T23:36:38 < catphish> i have this:   PWR->CR2 |= PWR_CR2_USV;
2019-05-09T23:36:48 < zyp> oh, okay
2019-05-09T23:36:55 < catphish> so sadly not that :(
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2019-05-09T23:37:14 < zyp> well, if you want anything to happen you also need to set the pins to AF10 and set that bit in BCDR
2019-05-09T23:37:44 < catphish> anyway, thanks, the good news is everyting in your code and what you're saying matches my understanding, so i'll go back through and look for anything i've missed
2019-05-09T23:38:29 < catphish> this is my code: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/RJSnCwGSN9/
2019-05-09T23:38:40 < catphish> no worries if you CBA to read it :)
2019-05-09T23:40:55 < qyx> there are F7s with 64k of flash
2019-05-09T23:41:35 < qyx> what's their purpose? DSP stuff?
2019-05-09T23:42:38 < zyp> for applications that'd run from qspi anyway?
2019-05-09T23:42:42 < qyx> or are they targetted for code running from external memories?
2019-05-09T23:43:00 < zyp> or yeah, just small code
2019-05-09T23:43:15 < zyp> 64k is not that small
2019-05-09T23:43:23 < zyp> you can do a lot on 64k
2019-05-09T23:43:51 < qyx> yeah but no blinky lcd and camera and ethernet stuff and things
2019-05-09T23:44:32 < qyx> how would a common IoT-er do a TLS for their MQTT?
2019-05-09T23:45:32 < qyx> you need at least 1MB of flash to count your toilet visits
2019-05-09T23:46:55 < qyx> dual mode quadspi, should work
2019-05-09T23:51:38 < catphish> i'm certain my USB peripheral isn't running properly, writing USB->EP0R = (1<<9); reads back as 0x0
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2019-05-10T00:08:41 < catphish> zyp: thanks for the pointer, looks like my write to PWR->CR2 isn't sticking, must have neglected to enable something else
2019-05-10T00:09:05 < zyp> maybe there's a PWR enable in RCC
2019-05-10T00:10:28 < zyp> or maybe you're not supplying vddusb properly
2019-05-10T00:11:30 < catphish> there certainly is a PWREN, and i've not enabled it :)
2019-05-10T00:11:37 < catphish> will try that
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2019-05-10T00:14:46 < catphish> zyp: yeah that's fixed everything, i'm getting lots of reset interrupts now, thanks for the pointer! i really hate clocks sometimes
2019-05-10T00:15:04 < catphish> thanks thanks and thanks
2019-05-10T00:15:10 < zyp> :)
2019-05-10T00:16:05 < catphish> i'll reorganize my code with that change integrated properly and start from the beginning, should be easy enough now it's actually talking to the host
2019-05-10T00:17:24 < catphish> this will also teach me to verify that my register writes are actually accepted at every step
2019-05-10T00:17:45 < catphish> if i'd seen that the power control write was rejected, i could have found this much quicker
2019-05-10T00:18:13 < zyp> that's why I like starting out working with new peripherals by poking at them in the debugger
2019-05-10T00:18:39 < catphish> is there any way i can use a GUI debugger with my own make scripts?
2019-05-10T00:19:09 < catphish> i rather like my simple GCC build setup, but i have no debugger that isn't GPIO.write_string
2019-05-10T00:19:25 < catphish> *uart.write_string
2019-05-10T00:19:38 < zyp> why gui?
2019-05-10T00:20:00 < zyp> just plain gdb is better for poking at stuff
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2019-05-10T00:34:31 < jadew> https://github.com/Microsoft/MS-DOS
2019-05-10T00:36:51 < jadew> Latest commit 80ab2fd  on Aug 13, 1983
2019-05-10T00:37:06 < catphish> :)
2019-05-10T00:41:49 < jadew> they started a new terminal project
2019-05-10T00:41:52 < jadew> which is also open source
2019-05-10T00:44:38 < catphish> zyp: i have no idea how to hook up gdb to my st-link, but that sounds like a good idea
2019-05-10T00:44:41 < catphish> i'll look into it
2019-05-10T00:45:03 < catphish> i like the gui for being able to browse the peripheral registers, but it's not essential
2019-05-10T00:46:19 < zyp> uh
2019-05-10T00:46:28 < zyp> how do you even use the st-link?
2019-05-10T00:46:37 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gw0rXPMMPE
2019-05-10T01:02:10 < mawk> catphish: your new favorite IDE can do it
2019-05-10T01:02:15 < mawk> tell gdb all about your stlink
2019-05-10T01:02:25 < mawk> but else on the command line it's very easy you just run st-util somewhere
2019-05-10T01:02:32 < mawk> it starts a gdb server on port 127.0.0.1:4242
2019-05-10T01:02:33 < zyp> fuck st-util
2019-05-10T01:02:42 < mawk> in gdb you do target remote 127.0.0.1:4242
2019-05-10T01:02:43 < zyp> I thought everybody used openocd nowadays
2019-05-10T01:02:46 < mawk> or openocd yes
2019-05-10T01:02:51 < mawk> but he will need to install it
2019-05-10T01:02:55 < mawk> one thing at a time
2019-05-10T01:02:55 < mawk> lol
2019-05-10T01:03:04 < mawk> he already has st-util normally
2019-05-10T01:03:12 < zyp> why?
2019-05-10T01:03:26 < mawk> it comes alongside the other stuff
2019-05-10T01:03:30 < mawk> in the distro packages
2019-05-10T01:03:39 < mawk> alongside st-flash
2019-05-10T01:04:56 < zyp> what other stuff?
2019-05-10T01:05:22 < zyp> as far as I know texane/stlink isn't any more bundled to stuff than openocd is
2019-05-10T01:05:23 < mawk> st-flash, st-util, st-info, udev definitions
2019-05-10T01:05:55 < mawk> in the stlink-tools debian package
2019-05-10T01:06:14 < zyp> that said, I don't really give a shit what people use, I dislike both
2019-05-10T01:06:18 < mawk> lol
2019-05-10T01:06:36 < mawk> yeah openocd could gain from a bit more UX
2019-05-10T01:06:46 < mawk> telnet shells and tcl scripts
2019-05-10T01:10:37 < kakimir> it's good
2019-05-10T01:11:05 < kakimir> just read the source code
2019-05-10T01:11:14 < mawk> yeah it can be good
2019-05-10T01:11:19 < mawk> it's a separate issue
2019-05-10T01:11:21 < kakimir> then make scripts required
2019-05-10T01:11:25 < kakimir> and use
2019-05-10T01:12:03 < kakimir> some cases writing a flash driver may be required but rarelly
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2019-05-10T01:24:01 < karlp> openocd is "openocd -f interface/stlink.cfg -f target/stm32xxx.cfg" vs "stlink" so yeah, more complicated
2019-05-10T01:24:26 < karlp> after that, it's ~transparent as far as you just run gdb; target ext :4444 instead of target ext :4242
2019-05-10T01:30:13 < catphish> zyp: i use st-link like this: st-flash write main.bin 0x8000000
2019-05-10T01:30:50 < catphish> that tool seems fool proof but afaik all it can do is erase, write and reset
2019-05-10T01:31:19 < catphish> i have st-util, i'll try that
2019-05-10T01:31:21 < mawk> yeah so you have st-util catphish 
2019-05-10T01:31:33 < mawk> and you can use openocd as mentioned
2019-05-10T01:31:44 < mawk> your IDE can use either of these
2019-05-10T01:31:46 < mawk> I believe
2019-05-10T01:33:00 < catphish> the problem is my code isn't in an ide right now
2019-05-10T01:33:30 < catphish> i could try to import it
2019-05-10T01:33:47 < catphish> but might try gdb and st-util first
2019-05-10T01:36:25 < catphish> gdb seems to work
2019-05-10T01:41:50 < catphish> zyp: how much do i owe you for consultancy?
2019-05-10T01:51:36 < Steffanx> A liver
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2019-05-10T02:16:04 < kakimir> oh wow
2019-05-10T02:16:15 < kakimir> I'm tired of watching youtube
2019-05-10T02:16:30 < kakimir> I found that I can watch people watching youtube
2019-05-10T02:18:13 < kakimir> new level
2019-05-10T03:08:42 < karlp> you don't need to be using an ide to use gdb.
2019-05-10T03:19:02 < Thorn> <catphish>	is there any way i can use a GUI debugger with my own make scripts?  <--  segger ozone
2019-05-10T03:27:59 < mawk> I thought my homemade usb cable was broken, so I started removing the heatshrink
2019-05-10T03:28:08 < mawk> then I saw I swapped D+ and D-
2019-05-10T03:28:12 < mawk> so now it's all ugly
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2019-05-10T03:36:57 < mawk> I've noticed over uart there are almost always buggy characters for the first few bytes after reset
2019-05-10T03:37:00 < mawk> from board to computer
2019-05-10T03:37:06 < mawk> same thing with VCP
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2019-05-10T03:50:08 < Thorn> I\ve had that with nxp mcus, solved by setting up bod. never had it on stm32 though
2019-05-10T03:51:15 < mawk> bod ?
2019-05-10T03:51:31 < mawk> brown out detection ?
2019-05-10T03:51:42 < Thorn> yes
2019-05-10T03:52:06 < mawk> here I don't know if it's that, because it's at the first uart bytes, not especially after the reset
2019-05-10T03:52:16 < mawk> eg if I sleep like 300ms after reset then start talking I still have the broken bytes
2019-05-10T03:52:20 < mawk> it's something to do with the uart peripheral
2019-05-10T04:03:09 < englishman> kakimir: no millenial actually does anything, they just watch people do it on youtube. including watching youtube
2019-05-10T04:05:34 < Thorn> englishman: new lynx arriving tomorrow
2019-05-10T04:07:06 < Laurenceb_> >watching youtube tutorials
2019-05-10T04:07:11 < Laurenceb_> the absolute state
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2019-05-10T05:26:32 < englishman> the PC software asks the device what the password is, the device sends the password to the PC, the software then checks if the user types in the right password.
2019-05-10T05:26:48 < englishman> Described as unhackable.
2019-05-10T05:26:56 < englishman> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/eyedisk/eyedisk-unhackable-usb-flash-drive/description
2019-05-10T05:27:00 < dongs> is this another IOT device
2019-05-10T05:27:35 < specing> rofl
2019-05-10T05:27:51 < englishman> The recognition is being done by software on the laptop that it is plugged in to. The facial recognition software library says match or no match.
2019-05-10T05:28:03 < dongs> iris recognition wat
2019-05-10T05:30:53 < englishman> https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/eyedisk-hacking-the-unhackable-again/
2019-05-10T05:31:22 < mawk> how would I do to optimize uart to usb ? since uart is byte based, but usb is block based
2019-05-10T05:31:31 < dongs> don't bother
2019-05-10T05:31:36 < dongs> just do eaech char
2019-05-10T05:31:40 < mawk> :(
2019-05-10T05:31:44 < mawk> I feel dirty doing this
2019-05-10T05:32:00 < mawk> but alright
2019-05-10T05:32:17 < mawk> uart can't go too fast anyway so it's good
2019-05-10T05:34:26 < mawk> I could sleep for 1/(2*baudrate) to see if a new byte is coming, and if it's the case I delay
2019-05-10T05:34:49 < mawk> or something like this
2019-05-10T05:34:59 < mawk> but I can't use DMA if I do this, it's still ugly
2019-05-10T05:35:13 < mawk> DMA will only interrupt at half transfer and complete transfer, not at every byte
2019-05-10T05:35:29 < englishman> just do blocking everything anyway 72MHz is way faster than 115200
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2019-05-10T05:35:36 < mawk> 80MHz sir
2019-05-10T05:35:49 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-10T05:49:58 < dongs> welp, fuck. 
2019-05-10T05:50:12 < dongs> going to my retarded japbank webpage crashed lsass.exe again because they use some retarded client side cert
2019-05-10T05:57:21 < mawk> cube IDE can't program yet, just flash through gdb
2019-05-10T05:57:23 < mawk> lame
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2019-05-10T07:31:37 < mawk> omg
2019-05-10T07:31:50 < mawk> serial port viewer in cube IDE kept resetting to 9600 bauds even though I configured it for 115200
2019-05-10T07:31:58 < mawk> so I thought my code wasn't working and lost a bunch of time
2019-05-10T07:32:16 < mawk> it can't even use determinist /dev/serial/by-id path for serial port, and now it can't hold a speed
2019-05-10T07:32:20 < mawk> I hope they roll in 1.0.1 soon
2019-05-10T07:32:45 < mawk> let's just use two minicom in tmux
2019-05-10T07:35:27 < mawk> or maybe a udev script can fix this, ugly hack
2019-05-10T08:06:16 < R2COM> are there some chinese LED drivers
2019-05-10T08:06:27 < R2COM> like those for multi arrays
2019-05-10T08:06:29 < R2COM> like TI makes
2019-05-10T08:06:32 < R2COM> but for sane price
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2019-05-10T09:11:13 < ds2> NFC is just plain odd
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2019-05-10T09:24:01 < dongs>  < mawk> it can't even use determinist /dev/serial/by-id path for serial port, and now it can't hold a speed
2019-05-10T09:24:05 < dongs> the problem is you using lunix
2019-05-10T09:24:06 < dongs> lol
2019-05-10T09:24:09 < dongs> nothing to do with cube
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2019-05-10T10:52:51 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/um9RF4ci/ty.JPG
2019-05-10T10:53:24 < jly> anime
2019-05-10T11:08:06 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@2a01:e35:8b76:a0f0:e1fd:d87c:4f43:6749] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-05-10T12:05:14 < Steffanx> jly try ##stm32-offtopic 
2019-05-10T12:05:45 < jly> they banned me
2019-05-10T12:07:49 < Steffanx> Lies
2019-05-10T12:07:55 < Steffanx> They dont ban
2019-05-10T12:08:56 < jly> that's what they said about here ;)
2019-05-10T12:09:39 < Steffanx> They never said that
2019-05-10T12:09:51 < jly> that was before the eunuch epoch
2019-05-10T12:10:26 < jly> something around 1970 iirc
2019-05-10T12:10:55 < Steffanx> Nerd jly :P
2019-05-10T12:12:13 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@94.9.227.160] has joined ##stm32
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2019-05-10T12:12:59 < jly> whois they
2019-05-10T12:13:24 < jly> aww already taken
2019-05-10T12:15:44 < jly> Information on muhdick (account muhdick): Registered : Jan 17 08:21:07 2016 (3y 16w 2d ago)
2019-05-10T12:20:37 < Steffanx> Dongs finally got himself an account registered?
2019-05-10T12:25:00 < karlp> mawk: you probably have an init sequence wrong if you're getting garbage bytes out on uart at the beginning.
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2019-05-10T12:26:31 < karlp> mawk: re dma, there's a project I've seen that used dma for uart receive side, with timers to time them out.
2019-05-10T12:27:20 < karlp> ok, I see it was sw on the pc side problem :)  good, there's no way you should have been getting garbage out like that.
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2019-05-10T12:40:00 < jly> and you can forget about captain mac!
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2019-05-10T13:23:21 < englishman> work is paying for the $2kusd advanced altidumb course
2019-05-10T13:23:24 < englishman> yay
2019-05-10T13:26:15 < jly> beenthere ;)
2019-05-10T13:26:24 < jly> the fucker made it 2 days instead of 3
2019-05-10T13:26:38 < jly> literally blazed through it stupidly 
2019-05-10T13:27:02 < englishman> i generally don't blaze at all
2019-05-10T13:27:58 < jly> welcome
2019-05-10T13:28:10 < jly> nah it was no sweat but pretty cheap of them to do it that way
2019-05-10T13:39:15 < jly> <cluelessc> some1 plz help plz https://imgur.com/a/795s5A0 is V_ab = 0 ?\
2019-05-10T13:39:43 < jly> who the fuck can read that mess?
2019-05-10T13:41:04 < englishman> another spacex candidate
2019-05-10T13:41:23 < jly> ROFL
2019-05-10T13:41:37 < englishman> or in his case Intel engineer I guess
2019-05-10T13:41:42 < jly> the ##electronics conversation following
2019-05-10T13:41:53 < jly> if I had a drink, definitely would have spat it out across the room
2019-05-10T13:43:00 < englishman> I think that's efsenable
2019-05-10T13:47:09 < Cracki> wtf that's some circuit! I wouldn't even try solving that naively, I'd make kirchhoff equations
2019-05-10T13:49:18 < jly> aids all over the picture
2019-05-10T13:49:18 < jly> could treat it as a dog
2019-05-10T13:49:18 < Mangy_Dog> bark
2019-05-10T13:49:21 < jly> ty
2019-05-10T13:49:22 < Steffanx> Woof
2019-05-10T13:49:35 < jly> superposition would make for the easiest way 
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2019-05-10T13:54:51 < jly> sniff
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2019-05-10T14:06:05 < englishman> what an awful channel
2019-05-10T14:18:12 < Mangy_Dog> its a nice channel
2019-05-10T14:18:28 < Rajko> ##electronics or here ?
2019-05-10T14:18:33 -!- Rajko is now known as rajkosto
2019-05-10T14:19:25 < Mangy_Dog> both is nice
2019-05-10T14:24:45 < BrainDamage> you don't need superposition
2019-05-10T14:25:05 < BrainDamage> a consequence of tellegen's theorem lets you cut pieces of the graph and apply a balance
2019-05-10T14:25:19 < BrainDamage> cut out the triangle, and you can see no current will flow into it
2019-05-10T14:25:29 < BrainDamage> so it's 4 independent squares
2019-05-10T14:25:32 < BrainDamage> err, 3
2019-05-10T14:26:17 < BrainDamage> the circuit is quite trivial, on each resistor there's 1/3 of the supply
2019-05-10T14:26:33 < BrainDamage> except for the top right one, that's 1/2
2019-05-10T14:32:03 < karlp> check out this awesome usb port: http://www.shjelectronic.com/12_files/S6116-USB_500.jpg
2019-05-10T14:33:19 < karlp> I think they're providing custom a-a cables with a usb-uart inside. so it _looks_ like usb, but it's actually just the same rs485 as nromal.
2019-05-10T14:33:47 < BrainDamage> that's what I guessed too, the writing on the panel doesn't mention usb
2019-05-10T14:34:00 < BrainDamage> and usb with 3 wires makes no sense
2019-05-10T14:34:49 < karlp> seems really stretchy to just put that ugly pcb extension on it, just to be "usb" insteade of just providing a usb cable wiht the matching terminal plug.
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2019-05-10T14:36:01 < BrainDamage> it's quite mechanically unsound too, that usb socket will be prone to breaking
2019-05-10T14:36:22 < BrainDamage> snapping the pins that plug into the module
2019-05-10T14:41:30 < rajkosto> you havent heard of "structural solder"
2019-05-10T15:00:57 < englishman> 25% tariffs on capacitors
2019-05-10T15:00:58 < englishman> lool
2019-05-10T15:01:27 < zyp> aww
2019-05-10T15:02:52 < englishman> no tariffs on finished electronics tho
2019-05-10T15:03:00 < englishman> good for canadian assembly biz
2019-05-10T15:34:47 < aandrew> what I *love* is how Trump is so happy about the billions of dollars coming into american coffers... not realizing it's from the american people
2019-05-10T15:35:14 < aandrew> englishman: yep... suck in the parts from china here, assemble, then ship finished product to US
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2019-05-10T16:23:18 < aandrew> woot, my son got accepted into all three programmes he applied for
2019-05-10T16:23:36 < aandrew> now he's gotta make a decision, and two days ago admitted he really isn't sure he wants to do sciency shit at all
2019-05-10T16:23:48 < aandrew> I'm wondering if that is just school fatigue talking but who knows
2019-05-10T16:28:00 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-05-10T16:32:30 < Steffanx> Just let him work at mcdonalds for a year and see how sciency he wants to be after that
2019-05-10T16:37:36 < specing> send him off to men's studies, aandrew, lol
2019-05-10T16:41:51 < dongs> study hebrew
2019-05-10T16:57:18 < aandrew> lol
2019-05-10T17:06:47 < kakimir> aandrew: university?
2019-05-10T17:07:11 < aandrew> yeah. got honours life sciences co-op at one and psych at two others
2019-05-10T17:08:45 < kakimir> in university people have to like or at least be good at: studying, studying techniques
2019-05-10T17:09:23 < kakimir> I have noticed that the subject and interest in subject is not primary thing, or "the thing"
2019-05-10T17:21:56 < aandrew> I never went, so I don't know
2019-05-10T17:22:54 < aandrew> I do know he's got the brain to do whatever he likes. he's having doubts about wanting to do anything sciency and has been looking at aircraft mechanic which sounds great until you're 40 and can no longer contort yourself and also don't want to work in grease and dirt and cold
2019-05-10T17:23:48 < kakimir> aircraft mechanic is in quite low wage bracket
2019-05-10T17:24:21 < aandrew> that too
2019-05-10T17:24:25 < aandrew> it's young man's work
2019-05-10T17:24:37 < kakimir> if you are working for like airline company or something
2019-05-10T17:24:56 < aandrew> I told him if he's truly sick of school to get into the local EET shit and he can work for me and I'll teach him everything school didn't
2019-05-10T17:25:47 < kakimir> question: does he study or is he just generally smart?
2019-05-10T17:28:47 < kakimir> both can give a similar result - until you go to academic world
2019-05-10T17:30:42 < englishman> maybe he should take up alcoholism instead
2019-05-10T17:34:02 < Steffanx> The ##stm32 optimism :)
2019-05-10T17:34:35 < aandrew> he is generally smart, like I was
2019-05-10T17:34:47 < aandrew> he doesn't study much, he's gonna hit the wall
2019-05-10T17:34:55 < aandrew> he's kind of hit it in his final year of HS a bit
2019-05-10T17:36:10 < inca[m]> dongs: how do you feel about mbed?
2019-05-10T17:36:17 < dongs> c++? haha nice joke
2019-05-10T17:36:20 < aandrew> dongs rant incoming
2019-05-10T17:36:52 < dongs> nah itll be a short one
2019-05-10T17:36:56 < dongs> im laying out IoT garbage
2019-05-10T17:36:56 < dongs> lmao
2019-05-10T17:37:21 < dongs> rageberry pi, lte, lora, iot, shit's full of buzzwords
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2019-05-10T17:38:00 < Steffanx> Lora always makes me think of loranceb
2019-05-10T17:38:05 < Steffanx> Where is Laurenceb__ 
2019-05-10T17:38:08 < dongs> i think he tried to use that
2019-05-10T17:39:32 < englishman> no he hates it
2019-05-10T17:39:36 < englishman> because it's good
2019-05-10T17:39:41 < englishman> and he doesn't understand why
2019-05-10T17:39:56 < englishman> typical academic
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2019-05-10T17:58:06 < inca[m]> dongs: how about DAPLink?
2019-05-10T18:00:10 < dongs> unnecessary when jlink exists
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2019-05-10T18:01:16 < inca[m]> do you use jlink for embedded testing?
2019-05-10T18:01:58 < dongs> yes?
2019-05-10T18:02:06 < dongs> i have a jlink ultra +
2019-05-10T18:02:37 < inca[m]> sorry. for automation of hardware testing, say for boards delivered from CM.
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2019-05-10T18:05:38 < inca[m]> hmm... jlink does appear to support that. do you use its vcom port?
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2019-05-10T18:08:46 < inca[m]> if only I could get a SPI output from the jlink pro. hmmm...
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2019-05-10T18:14:11 < dongs> ah no. just pogo pin jigs and serial/whatever
2019-05-10T18:14:16 < dongs> sry was out
2019-05-10T18:14:36 < inca[m]> no worries
2019-05-10T18:14:41 < inca[m]> thanks!
2019-05-10T18:15:17 < dongs> i think only make:r jlink has vcoim
2019-05-10T18:15:20 < dongs> vcom
2019-05-10T18:15:24 < dongs> the onboard stuff
2019-05-10T18:15:43 < dongs> none of the standalone ones ive used had anything other than 20pin arm debug socket
2019-05-10T18:16:18 < inca[m]> https://wiki.segger.com/Using_J-Link_VCOM_functionality
2019-05-10T18:16:34 < inca[m]>  only J-Link models with hardware version 9
2019-05-10T18:16:43 < inca[m]> VCOM can only be used when debugging via SWD target interface. Pin 5 = J-Link-Tx (out), Pin 17 = J-Link-Rx (in)
2019-05-10T18:19:39 < dongs> ah mine can do it but its disabled
2019-05-10T18:19:41 < dongs> never knew about the stuff.
2019-05-10T18:19:49 < dongs> anyway i have literally 100s of cp2102 usb>serial breakouts
2019-05-10T18:20:47 < inca[m]> yeah, that's a pretty good one. their windows drivers occasionally suck.
2019-05-10T18:20:50 < veverak> but why?
2019-05-10T18:20:58 < inca[m]> I've been thinking about switching over to microchip
2019-05-10T18:21:05 < inca[m]> for the usb uart bridge
2019-05-10T18:21:16 < dongs> for what, usb serial? ive had zero problems with cp210x ever
2019-05-10T18:21:32 < inca[m]> damn. my pin 5 is JTAG_TDI and pin 6 is grounded.
2019-05-10T18:22:01 < inca[m]> dongs: yes, usb serial. I've had issues with windows driver. WSL fail.
2019-05-10T18:22:29 < dongs> worksonmymachine.pro
2019-05-10T18:24:02 < inca[m]> yes. they just updated it. latest should work now. 
2019-05-10T18:24:51 < inca[m]> SiLabs is pretty good. though my microchip friends always laugh at me when things don't work on usb uart. seems like microchip may be more reliable.
2019-05-10T18:25:58 < zyp> haha
2019-05-10T18:26:22 < dongs> donno man. 
2019-05-10T18:26:29 < inca[m]> in any case, the DAPLink stuff looks promising... one offboard USB debug wiggler and I can flash over MSC, serial over CDC, and debug via HID (reset MCU)
2019-05-10T18:26:36 < dongs> no, daplink shit is completely useless
2019-05-10T18:26:43 < dongs> literally nobody supports it
2019-05-10T18:26:47 < dongs> except some shitty NXP IDE? 
2019-05-10T18:26:48 < dongs> or wahtever
2019-05-10T18:26:59 < dongs> nobody needed another shitty debug probe
2019-05-10T18:27:19 < dongs> no not nxp.. whoever made that shitty mcu
2019-05-10T18:27:21 < dongs> ah freescale
2019-05-10T18:27:29 < inca[m]> kinetis?
2019-05-10T18:27:30 < zyp> isn't that same shit?
2019-05-10T18:27:32 < dongs> yes that
2019-05-10T18:27:34 < inca[m]> nxp
2019-05-10T18:27:34 < dongs> kinetis
2019-05-10T18:27:36 < karlp> isn't daplink just mbed stufF?
2019-05-10T18:27:37 < dongs> is it nxp now?
2019-05-10T18:27:39 < zyp> I thought nxp bought freescale
2019-05-10T18:27:42 < dongs> fuck knows
2019-05-10T18:27:46 < inca[m]> zyp: yep
2019-05-10T18:28:00 < inca[m]> it's ARM Mbed with partners
2019-05-10T18:28:02 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NXP_Semiconductors#Acquisition_of_Freescale_Semiconductor
2019-05-10T18:28:19 < dongs> https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/arm-based-processors-and-mcus/kinetis-cortex-m-mcus:KINETIS
2019-05-10T18:28:23 < dongs> yarr
2019-05-10T18:28:43 < dongs> eh, they have 5V-running cortex m4
2019-05-10T18:28:51 < inca[m]> though Mbed is kind of in an in-between state... the compilers need the ARMCC (licensed) or MDK from uvision to build
2019-05-10T18:28:57 < inca[m]> but the test suite is awesome
2019-05-10T18:29:04 < inca[m]> and GCC is starting to get supported
2019-05-10T18:29:28 < inca[m]> need to finish the RTX rtos port to GCC, then I think DAPLink et al will follow shortly after
2019-05-10T18:29:35 < karlp> 100% test coverage of useless code doesn't make itbetter ;)
2019-05-10T18:29:43 < dongs> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
2019-05-10T18:30:08 < karlp> it's as good as formal verification.
2019-05-10T18:30:20 < inca[m]> karlp: there are no good embedded test automation solutions yet. most require a ton of custom code and elbow-grease.
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2019-05-10T18:31:17 < dongs> don't write shitty code
2019-05-10T18:31:20 < dongs> then you don't need to test it
2019-05-10T18:31:52 < dongs> you don't see zyp going around spewing shit about unit tests
2019-05-10T18:31:55 < dongs> his shit just works
2019-05-10T18:32:10 < inca[m]> need to verify functionality because CM is making shitty hardware
2019-05-10T18:32:32 < dongs> you sure you didn't give htem shitty hardware to make?
2019-05-10T18:32:34 < inca[m]> and suppliers deliver intermittantly crappy devices
2019-05-10T18:32:54 < inca[m]> not my scope. I'm just firmware.
2019-05-10T18:32:59 < zyp> inca[m], don't use shitty mfgs
2019-05-10T18:33:11 < dongs> and that
2019-05-10T18:33:13 < inca[m]> zyp: not my pay grade
2019-05-10T18:33:21 < inca[m]> not my decision
2019-05-10T18:33:24 < dongs> then don't bother researching why it doesnt work
2019-05-10T18:33:31 < dongs> thats not your problem either
2019-05-10T18:33:31 < inca[m]> I am just the dumb firmware guy =)
2019-05-10T18:33:34 < dongs> daplink isnt gonna solve it
2019-05-10T18:33:56 < inca[m]> no, daplink doesn't solve like some magic bullet
2019-05-10T18:34:10 < inca[m]> but it does reduce complexity of my current system
2019-05-10T18:34:17 < inca[m]> potentially
2019-05-10T18:34:27 < dongs> how
2019-05-10T18:34:30 < inca[m]> #mbed channel is dead. not a good sign.
2019-05-10T18:34:41 < dongs> dead like bsd
2019-05-10T18:34:58 < inca[m]> dongs: 3 USB connections from PC. One to DUT. One to board tester. One to jlink.
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2019-05-10T18:35:49 < inca[m]> PC USB sucks. Tons of jitter. Slow tests. Gives digital timing errors when running moderately fast.
2019-05-10T18:36:34 < dongs> what fucking planet are you from dude
2019-05-10T18:36:35 < inca[m]> Board tester is fed by Mbed device. DAPLink can do all 3 jobs. 
2019-05-10T18:36:42 < dongs> you must be talking about lunix usb or something
2019-05-10T18:36:49 < inca[m]> windows
2019-05-10T18:36:56 < dongs> been using windows since 3.1
2019-05-10T18:37:00 < inca[m]> with security
2019-05-10T18:37:03 < dongs> zero problems in like 3 decades
2019-05-10T18:37:13 < dongs> donno wat to tell you
2019-05-10T18:38:10 < inca[m]> the DUT may be spiking power lines. it periodically fries FTDI devices and disconnects Mbed.
2019-05-10T18:38:22 < inca[m]> it's intermittant and uncharacterized. 
2019-05-10T18:38:24 < kakimir> NXP mentioned
2019-05-10T18:38:34 < dongs> sounds like you guys are running a real shitshow over there
2019-05-10T18:38:45 < dongs> get your hardware people fired and/or get them to start making shit that doesnt suck
2019-05-10T18:38:58 < inca[m]> kakimir: NXP is presently unused... except for the LPC1768 Mbed board. which now appears to be obsolete.
2019-05-10T18:39:12 < inca[m]> dongs: change is hard
2019-05-10T18:39:14 < dongs> LPC1768... what an awful piece of shit
2019-05-10T18:39:23 < dongs> i actualyl wrote some shit for it
2019-05-10T18:39:34 < kakimir> lpc17.. yes it was about obsolete when I started poking around with it like 5years ago
2019-05-10T18:39:47 < inca[m]> it's not my favorite piece of hardware, but it works for what it does.
2019-05-10T18:39:47 < dongs> it also has that retarded anti (?something) protection where after you flash shit you have to match some CRC in startup vectors
2019-05-10T18:39:50 < dongs> or else it doesnt boot
2019-05-10T18:40:02 < dongs> and it has a huge bootROM with some sorta standard code library in it
2019-05-10T18:40:05 < dongs> that you're xpected to use
2019-05-10T18:40:09 < dongs> fuck all that nonsense
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2019-05-10T18:40:36 < kakimir> cool
2019-05-10T18:40:47 < kakimir> standard lib burned in rom
2019-05-10T18:41:04 < kakimir> you shouldn't use it though
2019-05-10T18:41:15 < kakimir> unless you really need to
2019-05-10T18:41:31 < specing> texas instruments does that, too
2019-05-10T18:41:39 < specing> mask rom is way cheaper than flash
2019-05-10T18:42:31 < kakimir> I don't find any problem with it as long provided tools are good
2019-05-10T18:42:41 < kakimir> tools and resources
2019-05-10T18:43:04 < kakimir> but if it's like "figure out" then it's fffuuu
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2019-05-10T18:43:21 < inca[m]> it makes for more interesting bootloader experiences
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2019-05-10T18:45:53 < kakimir> are you talking about vector table thing?
2019-05-10T18:47:12 < kakimir> show that shit
2019-05-10T18:47:23 < kakimir> I'm interested
2019-05-10T18:48:07 < dongs> it takes a CRC32? or something of the first ? i forget boot vectors
2019-05-10T18:48:12 < dongs> and sticks it at the end of vector table
2019-05-10T18:48:46 < dongs> https://community.nxp.com/thread/479392 random psots asking how to
2019-05-10T18:49:19 < dongs> https://community.nxp.com/thread/389046
2019-05-10T18:49:27 < dongs> NXP LPC parts use a word in the vector table of the processor to store a checksum that is examined by the bootloader to identify a valid image. For ARM7/ARM9 based parts this checksum word is stored at offset 0x14, for Cortex-M based parts it is stored at offset 0x1C
2019-05-10T18:50:09 < Thorn> both openocd and j-link calculate it transparently
2019-05-10T18:50:14 < Thorn> when flashing
2019-05-10T18:50:39 < dongs> probably, but for production /bootloader iamges you still gotta do it
2019-05-10T18:51:30 < kakimir> does ld have a tool for crc calculating?
2019-05-10T18:51:38 < dongs> i think so, read those threads.
2019-05-10T18:51:45 < dongs> i think there's a separate .exe that does the shit
2019-05-10T18:52:01 < Thorn> it's not a crc, just a checksum
2019-05-10T18:52:11 < dongs> how is CRC not a checksum
2019-05-10T18:53:17 < Thorn> 2 different things
2019-05-10T18:54:26 < Thorn> crc is remainder of the data divided by a polynomial in GF(2)
2019-05-10T18:54:33 < Thorn> checksum is just a sum
2019-05-10T18:54:47 < kakimir> separate .exe hmm
2019-05-10T18:55:34 < kakimir> that's sucky
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2019-05-10T18:58:11 < catphish> yay, my orienteering control NFC prototype that's been sitting battery powered on my desk last year is still running :)
2019-05-10T18:59:09 -!- sterna [~Adium@h-90-120.A137.corp.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2019-05-10T18:59:29 < kakimir> oh it's for orienteering?
2019-05-10T19:00:05 < kakimir> you do orienteering? I thought it was pretty nordic hobby
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2019-05-10T19:01:27 < karlp> not at all.
2019-05-10T19:06:42 < kakimir> interesting
2019-05-10T19:07:04 < kakimir> I always tried to figure out what that nfc was for
2019-05-10T19:08:01 < englishman> Keithley DMM6500
2019-05-10T19:08:06 < englishman> amazing unit
2019-05-10T19:08:09 < englishman> amazing value
2019-05-10T19:08:13 < englishman> fuck keysight
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2019-05-10T19:10:02 < kakimir> touchscreen
2019-05-10T19:11:08 < qyx> catphish: is it for checkpoints? or how is it called
2019-05-10T19:11:13 < karlp> isnt keithly a keysight brand nowadays?
2019-05-10T19:11:18 < karlp> or is it a tek brand?
2019-05-10T19:12:54 < kakimir> englishman: how it's better than 34465a?
2019-05-10T19:15:59 < englishman> no comparison
2019-05-10T19:16:07 < englishman> Keysight is slow grandpa shit
2019-05-10T19:16:13 < kakimir> boot is at least
2019-05-10T19:16:44 < kakimir> it's like an old computer you turn it on and go get coffee while it warms up
2019-05-10T19:17:35 < Thorn> >$1,140.00
2019-05-10T19:17:40 < Thorn> moneyed westerners
2019-05-10T19:18:23 < kakimir> I think keysight is worth every penny
2019-05-10T19:18:46 < kakimir> but for hobby use it's a bit heavy for budget
2019-05-10T19:19:57 < kakimir> got to love actually readable display and when it plays it's relays *clonk*
2019-05-10T19:20:40 < kakimir> and not only readable display but plenty of accurate digits
2019-05-10T19:31:57 < kakimir> measurement to reading on the screen has no noticeable delay
2019-05-10T19:37:17 < englishman> that's cheap as fuck for a fast dmm
2019-05-10T19:37:27 < englishman> almost at riglol territory
2019-05-10T19:38:06 < englishman> usb and ethernet
2019-05-10T19:38:50 < englishman> not everyone has to work with nixie tube display DMMs
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2019-05-10T19:48:17 < karlp> right, yeah, tek these days.
2019-05-10T19:50:15 < karlp> I like how it has a gap around 1Hz in period/freq measurements...
2019-05-10T19:53:10 < dongs> SD card experts
2019-05-10T19:53:24 < dongs> is there a mode of sd card that can make it unreadable when isnerted somewehre else
2019-05-10T19:58:50 < englishman> yeah karlp Tek sorry didn't see the q
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2019-05-10T20:01:41 < englishman> CE_test_qualification_report_🌭🌭🌭.xlsx
2019-05-10T20:05:39 < karlp> hotdog hotdog hotdog wat?
2019-05-10T20:07:21 < englishman> thinking of what hotdog-themed easter eggs to slip into this machine
2019-05-10T20:19:22 < Cracki> inserted somewhere else, as in card identifies host and commits seppuku if wrong answer? _maybe_. they are capable of DRM and (need to) have microcontrollers on them, ARM or maybe less than that
2019-05-10T20:20:01 < Cracki> so if you don't need seppuku, using the in-spec DRM might suit you
2019-05-10T20:20:24 < Cracki> https://www.sdcard.org/developers/overview/copyright_protection/index.html
2019-05-10T20:21:05 < dongs> i saw that.
2019-05-10T20:21:35 < dongs> i have a card that was completely unreadable in PC until i followed unmount/eject procedure in teh host
2019-05-10T20:21:54 < Cracki> ah you're debugging, not creating features
2019-05-10T20:21:59 < dongs> and by unredable i mean not just no filsystem but completely unresponsive
2019-05-10T20:22:37 < Cracki> "host" was PC or was not PC?
2019-05-10T20:22:48 < dongs> car
2019-05-10T20:23:00 < Cracki> curious.
2019-05-10T20:23:44 < Cracki> I would understand corrupted/locked file system. completely unresponsive meaning not even raw blocks readable?
2019-05-10T20:23:51 < dongs> yeah
2019-05-10T20:24:14 < dongs> on intel NUC it came up as a drive letter but nothing about it was readable, no size information etc.
2019-05-10T20:24:27 < dongs> on USB reader, laptop, and another reader, it wouldnt even show up as any sorta device.
2019-05-10T20:24:34 < Cracki> drive letter implying windows. maybe windows got confused by something
2019-05-10T20:24:34 < dongs> lock up diskmgmt while refreshing disk info/etc.
2019-05-10T20:24:37 < dongs> no
2019-05-10T20:24:39 < Cracki> ah, multiple devices
2019-05-10T20:24:48 < dongs> once it was unmounted it immediately showed up as fat32 shit.
2019-05-10T20:24:53 < Cracki> huh
2019-05-10T20:24:54 < dongs> unmounted/unbound or hatever
2019-05-10T20:25:36 < Cracki> I wonder if the car does any drm to it while in use, and unmounting includes wiping something sensitive and removing protection
2019-05-10T20:26:06 < Cracki> I've been handling SD cards regularly for a decade, but never with DRM involved
2019-05-10T20:26:36 < dongs> my ancient phone from like 15 years ago supported https://www.sdcard.org/developers/overview/sd_apps/sd-binding/index.html
2019-05-10T20:26:46 < dongs> but the card was raedable, it just had a SD_BIND\ folder on it with DRM'd trash
2019-05-10T20:26:50 < dongs> nothign that would make it physically useless
2019-05-10T20:28:25 < Cracki> is this reproducible and might you be able to sniff traffic between card and host?
2019-05-10T20:29:24 < dongs> nah i don't have a slim adapter that would fit like that. the shit is behind a panel where its definitely not reachable
2019-05-10T20:30:15 < Cracki> I was thinking of looking at more details for the failing case on different hosts
2019-05-10T20:31:28 < Cracki> I would assume that it's not electrically mute, so it prolly gives negative responses that whatever host OS doesn't log to you in detail
2019-05-10T20:31:33 < dongs> i could try pluugging it into lunix VM and see
2019-05-10T20:32:48 < Cracki> I'm starting to think that it's _not_ DRM because all the descriptions of sd drm sound like it's storing a key securely, but all the rest is always readable, just encrypted
2019-05-10T20:32:59 < dongs> right
2019-05-10T20:37:28 < dongs> ya completely removable
2019-05-10T20:37:30 < dongs> err repeatable
2019-05-10T20:37:39 < dongs> plugged it back in, pulled out without unmount/eject
2019-05-10T20:37:41 < dongs> unreadable again
2019-05-10T20:39:46 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/XJo37h70.html
2019-05-10T20:40:03 < dongs> yeah its basically unreadable
2019-05-10T20:43:32 < Cracki> is that a particular card (maybe mfg fucked with it) or a random/generic one?
2019-05-10T20:44:10 < dongs> its got their name on it but it also has SD Assoc logo on it
2019-05-10T20:44:21 < dongs> if it was some bizzare out of spec thing it wouldn't have the logo i think
2019-05-10T20:45:20 < Cracki> if this needs debugging, I'd unmount, copy contents to some random card, and see if that can be made unreadable as well
2019-05-10T20:46:11 < dongs> allright challenge accepted
2019-05-10T20:46:24 < Cracki> doesn't sound like a defect, and the on-card processor isn't supposed to pay attention to *contents* or corrupted/unfinalized file system...
2019-05-10T20:46:49 < dongs> Not enough space on disk: Size: 31326208 sectors  Available: 30679040 sectors  Sector size: 512
2019-05-10T20:46:52 < dongs> lmao
2019-05-10T20:47:00 < Cracki> heh
2019-05-10T20:47:04 < dongs> (two 16gb cards
2019-05-10T20:47:05 < Cracki> it's fat32 yes?
2019-05-10T20:47:27 < dongs> yeah but i already made an image
2019-05-10T20:47:59 < Cracki> if the car doesn't like a freshly formatted card, I'd copy volume ids. maybe it expects the card to ID itself as well but eh
2019-05-10T20:48:21 < dongs> 16gigs at 11meg/sec is gonna take a while
2019-05-10T20:48:35 < Cracki> I was almost saying "just truncate" but no clue if fat32 has any metadata at the end of the volume
2019-05-10T20:48:51 < Cracki> ah, class 10 card. cute :>
2019-05-10T20:48:58 < dongs> yes, garbage
2019-05-10T20:49:06 < dongs> the source card is class 4
2019-05-10T20:49:07 < dongs> even worse
2019-05-10T20:49:14 < dongs> the reads were like 20meg/sec
2019-05-10T20:49:22 < Cracki> full HD video cameras writing ~3 MB/s are just fine with class 10
2019-05-10T20:49:43 < Cracki> faster is just more expensive and it's not a thumb drive
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2019-05-10T20:52:07 < catphish> qyx: yeah, what it's called is in my message ;)
2019-05-10T20:52:36 < catphish> kakimir: yeah i do orienteering, it's fairly popular in the UK
2019-05-10T20:52:46 < catphish> mostly nordic though i think :)
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2019-05-10T20:57:24 < kakimir> only open work position is c coder for iot stuff.. maybe I could try it once
2019-05-10T20:57:58 < kakimir> it's like exactly everything I don't really do
2019-05-10T20:58:13 < kakimir> in terms of application
2019-05-10T20:59:41 < Steffanx> catphish: 
2019-05-10T21:00:07 < catphish> Steffanx: yes?
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2019-05-10T21:09:44 < dongs> 98%
2019-05-10T21:09:59 < Cracki> HCF
2019-05-10T21:10:10 < Cracki> second progressbar pops up
2019-05-10T21:12:40 < dongs> yeah it doesnt even read the copy.
2019-05-10T21:12:48 < dongs> japs must have added some bullshit drm
2019-05-10T21:13:28 < Cracki> the _car_ doesn't like the copy?
2019-05-10T21:13:32 < Cracki> interesting
2019-05-10T21:13:35 < dongs> yeah
2019-05-10T21:13:55 < Cracki> sd cards have IDs, don't they... and that's something you can't just change
2019-05-10T21:14:23 < Cracki> ids and probably even more info
2019-05-10T21:14:37 < Cracki> maybe it's hiding stuff in the content protection partition too
2019-05-10T21:15:00 < Cracki> ok so the "make unreadable" test can't even be performed
2019-05-10T21:15:30 < dongs> lemme just plug it in, watch it say 'unreadable' and pull card out and see if it adds bullshit drm to the copy
2019-05-10T21:15:58 < Cracki> I'm betting it won't touch it
2019-05-10T21:16:24 < Cracki> "japanese car sd card" gives interesting results
2019-05-10T21:17:23 < Steffanx> whops not sure how that happened, catphish
2019-05-10T21:18:20 < qyx> catphish: uh orienteering control
2019-05-10T21:18:27 < qyx> thanks
2019-05-10T21:19:05 < dongs> lmao
2019-05-10T21:19:12 < dongs> it made the copied card unreadable
2019-05-10T21:19:15 < dongs> after i didnt unmount it
2019-05-10T21:19:26 < dongs> so its definitely something standard-ish SD shit
2019-05-10T21:20:28 < dongs> sd 34:0:0:0: [sdb] Read Capacity(10) failed: Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
2019-05-10T21:20:31 < dongs> yeah
2019-05-10T21:20:33 < dongs> it does same shit now.
2019-05-10T21:21:11 < Cracki> lol
2019-05-10T21:23:04 < dongs> hmmm so what the fuck?
2019-05-10T21:23:45 < Cracki> what next, browsing the spec, dismantling the car, shimming and sniffing what's going on, or straight up building an in circuit simulator of an sd card?
2019-05-10T21:24:08 < dongs> i can't get a shim/logic analyzer probes in there.
2019-05-10T21:24:25 < Cracki> jaws of life maybe
2019-05-10T21:24:46 < dongs> i'd have to maybe make a custom fpc cable or something that would be log enough to fit behind panel andallow space to probe
2019-05-10T21:24:56 < dongs> but yeah i dont give enough shits but this is definitely very bizzare
2019-05-10T21:25:12 < dongs> i'd really like t oknow how they "lock" cards like this, it has some pretty decent abuse potential
2019-05-10T21:25:26 < Cracki> I was about to ask if some customer is paying for this
2019-05-10T21:25:35 < dongs> nah im just dicking around at 2am
2019-05-10T21:25:44 < Cracki> a very fine reason
2019-05-10T21:28:47 < Cracki> https://github.com/BertoldVdb/sdtool
2019-05-10T21:28:54 < Cracki> >It is relatively unknown that SD/MMC cards also have an electronic write protection system
2019-05-10T21:29:36 < Cracki> I doubt it's that but maybe gets a step closer
2019-05-10T21:30:57 < Cracki> apparently you can also set a password on an sd card (CMD42)
2019-05-10T21:31:04 < Cracki> that might cause read protection
2019-05-10T21:31:22 < qyx> set disk label to "you shall not pass"
2019-05-10T21:31:42 < qyx> sorry, I am not being helpful
2019-05-10T21:31:59 < Cracki> https://www.micron.com/-/.../sd-cards/tnsd01_enable_sd_lock_unlock_in_linux.pdf
2019-05-10T21:32:01 < dongs> write would at least allow read capacity or other stats
2019-05-10T21:32:08 < dongs> nice url
2019-05-10T21:32:13 < Cracki> oh sorry
2019-05-10T21:32:19 < Cracki> https://www.micron.com/-/media/documents/products/technical-note/sd-cards/tnsd01_enable_sd_lock_unlock_in_linux.pdf
2019-05-10T21:32:21 < qyx> Server Error in '/' Application.
2019-05-10T21:32:21 < dongs> https://www.micron.com/-/media/documents/products/technical-note/sd-cards/tnsd01_enable_sd_lock_unlock_in_linux.pdf
2019-05-10T21:32:22 < qyx> haha
2019-05-10T21:32:22 < rajkosto> you can completely lock-out a sdcard via SD commands that windows cant use
2019-05-10T21:32:24 < dongs> ya that
2019-05-10T21:32:35 < dongs> rajkosto: yes? tell me more
2019-05-10T21:32:46 < rajkosto> there's a write protect bit right next to the temporary write protect bit
2019-05-10T21:32:51 < rajkosto> dont misalign your shifts accidentally
2019-05-10T21:32:57 < dongs> not write protect
2019-05-10T21:33:11 < dongs> < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/XJo37h70.html
2019-05-10T21:33:15 < dongs> it makes the card compeltely useless
2019-05-10T21:33:19 < rajkosto> the password then
2019-05-10T21:33:46 < rajkosto> you can try to secure erase and see if that resets password
2019-05-10T21:34:08 < dongs> secure erase using what
2019-05-10T21:34:31 < Cracki> a command, there's prolly some tool around that can talk SD protocol
2019-05-10T21:34:45 < rajkosto> raspberrypi/other SoC can talk raw CMD to microsd via linux
2019-05-10T21:34:48 < rajkosto> you usually cant over usb adapters
2019-05-10T21:35:12 < Cracki> cmd38 is labeled erase
2019-05-10T21:35:13 < rajkosto> When a user forgets the password (PWD content), it is possible to erase PWD content
2019-05-10T21:35:14 < rajkosto> and get back to an unlocked state using ERASE mode in CMD42. However, all of the
2019-05-10T21:35:14 < rajkosto> card content including the PWD and PWDS_LEN register content will be completely
2019-05-10T21:35:14 < rajkosto> erased for security reasons. This operation is called FORCE ERASE.
2019-05-10T21:35:53 < dongs> The locked card accepts the following commands and returns responses by setting
2019-05-10T21:35:53 < dongs> CARD_IS_LOCKED. All other commands are treated as illegal commands.
2019-05-10T21:35:54 < dongs> • Basic class (0) • Lock card class (7) • CMD16 • ACMD41 • ACMD42
2019-05-10T21:35:58 < dongs> ok thats gotta be it then
2019-05-10T21:36:18 < Cracki> inb4 pw cracking. it's 16 bytes.
2019-05-10T21:36:25 < Cracki> so that could take a while :>
2019-05-10T21:36:39 < Cracki> but it's gotta be protecting something interesting with this, while it's "mounted"
2019-05-10T21:38:19 < dongs> rajkosto: so i cant send it cmd42 shit over usb?
2019-05-10T21:38:35 < rajkosto> the usb mass storage adapters usually have no way of letting you dot hat
2019-05-10T21:39:37 < dongs> rajkosto: lunixfags should fucking check card_is_locked bit in responses
2019-05-10T21:39:39 < dongs> and print that out
2019-05-10T21:39:43 < Cracki> you _can_ talk to it via spi if you don't have a hardware peripheral that handles sdio stuff or can't drop to that level
2019-05-10T21:39:51 < Cracki> hahaha
2019-05-10T21:40:40 < dongs> Note that unlocking is done
2019-05-10T21:40:41 < dongs> only for the current power session and the card will go back to a lock state automatically
2019-05-10T21:40:44 < dongs> on the next power-up as long as the password is not cleared in prior power cycle.
2019-05-10T21:40:46 < dongs> nice
2019-05-10T21:40:50 < dongs> yeah it s definitely this
2019-05-10T21:41:01 < dongs> cuz once its ejected (without unset pass) it becomes unusable
2019-05-10T21:41:03 < rajkosto> dongs, dmesg will usually tell you that shit on /dev/mmcXXXXX class controllers
2019-05-10T21:41:11 < dongs> rajkosto: ok, must be cuz not usb then
2019-05-10T21:41:14 < dongs> err, cuz usb
2019-05-10T21:41:21 < rajkosto> usb ones just show up as /dev/sdX
2019-05-10T21:41:26 < dongs> Yas
2019-05-10T21:41:50 < dongs> bedtime. this was an interesting exersize in ... dongs
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--- Day changed Sat May 11 2019
2019-05-11T00:02:35 < Steffanx> Wlcm
2019-05-11T00:03:00 < qyx> stfn
2019-05-11T00:03:32 < qyx> how many waffels did you eat today?
2019-05-11T00:04:35 < catphish> 5
2019-05-11T00:08:56 -!- jadew [~rcc@unaffiliated/jadew] has joined ##stm32
2019-05-11T00:14:36 < jadew> I finally got a new printer - amazing upgrade after the cheapest-you-can-buy printer I had before
2019-05-11T00:14:51 < jadew> I can send and receive faxes now
2019-05-11T00:23:18 < Steffanx> 0 qyx
2019-05-11T00:23:25 < Steffanx> No waffles in stock
2019-05-11T00:23:48 < Steffanx> I ate croissants
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2019-05-11T00:39:00 < karlp> who do you send and receive faxes _to_ though?
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2019-05-11T00:53:13 < Steffanx> Lol
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2019-05-11T00:54:23 < jadew> karlp, that was the joke
2019-05-11T00:54:59 < jadew> but it has other cool features, like an automatic feeder
2019-05-11T00:55:57 < jadew> I'm surprised I got it this cheap. It was less than double the price of a toner cartridge for my old printer
2019-05-11T00:56:15 < jadew> which didn't have a scanner and couldn't print both sides
2019-05-11T00:58:42 < karlp> what printer did you get?
2019-05-11T00:59:16 < jadew> brother MFC-L2712DN
2019-05-11T00:59:34 < jadew> it was less than 150 eur
2019-05-11T00:59:41 < jadew> between 130 and 140 I think
2019-05-11T01:00:30 < specing> is it an ink bottle system?
2019-05-11T01:00:36 < jadew> nope, laser
2019-05-11T01:01:00 < specing> That is going to become expensive real quick :)
2019-05-11T01:01:11 < jadew> 3k pages / cartridge and I think the one you get from them is refillable
2019-05-11T01:01:17 < jadew> (not the one it comes with tho)
2019-05-11T01:01:24 < jadew> specing, with laser?
2019-05-11T01:01:37 < specing> jadew: yes
2019-05-11T01:01:56 < jadew> don't know how the ones with ink bottles are, but laser is pretty cheap
2019-05-11T01:02:03 < specing> How much is a cartridge? I've got an ink bottle system where a bottle is 75ml/10000pages $7
2019-05-11T01:02:19 < jadew> wow, ok, that does sound cheap
2019-05-11T01:02:51 < specing> printed out whole stm32 reference manual at 1000 pages :)
2019-05-11T01:04:27 < jadew> it seems for less than $50 you get several cartridges for 20k pages
2019-05-11T01:04:34 < jadew> it's not bad
2019-05-11T01:04:55 < specing> $50 - 70000 pages here
2019-05-11T01:05:02 < jadew> your setup is better, yeah
2019-05-11T01:05:10 < jadew> but I don't print that many pages
2019-05-11T01:05:29 < specing> you would if it was cheap
2019-05-11T01:05:34 < jadew> heh
2019-05-11T01:05:51 < specing> printer ink used to be liquid gold
2019-05-11T01:06:00 < jadew> yeah, that's why I kept away
2019-05-11T01:06:57 < jadew> also, I kinda like laser because the toner is more resilient
2019-05-11T01:07:03 < jadew> you spill water on it, nothing happens
2019-05-11T01:07:28 < karlp> specing:b&w lasers are pretty cheap in operation these days,
2019-05-11T01:07:39 < karlp> inkjets are super variable, some cheap, some still ludicrous
2019-05-11T01:07:55 < jadew> are color printers still super expensive?
2019-05-11T01:08:09 < karlp> not rreally, but the toner is still a lot more than b/w
2019-05-11T01:08:16 < jadew> or there are "ink bottle" versions too?
2019-05-11T01:08:21 < karlp> at least ~18months ago when I was pricing tthihs shit for the wife's new office.
2019-05-11T01:08:45 < specing> jadew: you are not supposed to spill water on paper ;)
2019-05-11T01:09:13 < specing> jadew: ink bottle seem really popular now
2019-05-11T01:09:29 < specing> there are factory systems from brother, HP, epson, all for ~150 or less
2019-05-11T01:10:13 < jadew> maybe next time
2019-05-11T01:10:41 < karlp> inkjets are just mostly so fucking slow.
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2019-05-11T01:11:07 < jadew> right, I think this does 30-40 pages per minute
2019-05-11T01:11:21 < specing> karlp: have it print overnight or something
2019-05-11T01:11:35 < karlp> though first page is always slow, never seen a fast first page printer
2019-05-11T01:11:39 < specing> read an old book while printing new one
2019-05-11T01:11:45 < jadew> karlp, that's because it has to heat up
2019-05-11T01:11:46 < karlp> specing: you mistake me for some moron who prints massive jobs
2019-05-11T01:12:02 < karlp> jadew: I know _why_ it doesn't mean I like it :)
2019-05-11T01:12:15 < karlp> who the fuck prints a refman. tree kkiller
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2019-05-11T01:18:12 < jadew> what I like most about it is that you can scan to pc
2019-05-11T01:19:08 < mawk> some can send you by mail also
2019-05-11T01:19:09 < specing> karlp: I do, lol
2019-05-11T01:19:23 < jadew> mawk, this one too I think
2019-05-11T01:19:49 < specing> karlp: you don't casually read reference manuals before bed?
2019-05-11T01:20:09 < mawk> I print maths pdf
2019-05-11T01:20:21 < mawk> and bookbind them
2019-05-11T01:20:36 < mawk> also I have all the intel system developer manual for x86 in book form
2019-05-11T01:20:42 < mawk> it's a nice paperweight
2019-05-11T01:20:57 < jadew> I like PDFs
2019-05-11T01:21:24 < jadew> even books are better in electronic format
2019-05-11T01:21:32 < mawk> I try to read them on kindle reader but it messes up the formatting
2019-05-11T01:21:35 < jadew> you can quickly jump to chapters
2019-05-11T01:21:48 < mawk> I must dezoom and change page and zoom again, at each page change
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2019-05-11T02:19:08 < kakimir> night pumps
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2019-05-11T04:42:39 < Laurenceb_> it is time
2019-05-11T04:43:03 < Laurenceb_> to vote for Sargon
2019-05-11T04:46:51 < Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CPdoOr1iaU
2019-05-11T04:54:09 < mawk> I'm trying to hack a terminal android app
2019-05-11T04:54:17 < mawk> I found public key stuff
2019-05-11T04:54:39 < mawk> maybe I should just patch it and recompile it but it's less fun that reversing their """encryption""" and forge a fake pro key
2019-05-11T04:57:39 < dongs> what shitty app is it
2019-05-11T04:58:04 < mawk> termius
2019-05-11T04:58:34 < mawk> they use opensource stuff and sell this
2019-05-11T04:58:39 < mawk> shameful
2019-05-11T04:58:45 < dongs> faggots.
2019-05-11T04:59:03 < mawk> it's android app but ssh core code is in C++, so I got the list of symbols: https://paste.serveur.io/raw/3ZrmHHy9.txt
2019-05-11T04:59:09 < mawk> it's all using opensource stuff such as libssh
2019-05-11T04:59:42 < dongs> i use juicessh (aka JEWS_SSH) and it works fine in free mode without faggot shit.
2019-05-11T04:59:50 < dongs> anything that isnt usable in free can fuck off
2019-05-11T04:59:51 < mawk> yeah I have juicessh too
2019-05-11T04:59:54 < mawk> but it doesn't do sftp does it ?
2019-05-11T05:00:03 < mawk> it does ssh and mosh, it works great
2019-05-11T05:00:05 < dongs> no idea. i have never in my life used sftp
2019-05-11T05:00:09 < mawk> it can do port forwarding too
2019-05-11T05:00:15 < mawk> it's for sending videos
2019-05-11T05:00:25 < mawk> maybe I should use google drive
2019-05-11T05:00:34 < mawk> google has all the details of my private life now, I might as well use it
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2019-05-11T05:02:45 < mawk> because I have a cheap chinese hot air station but the screens look dead, then randomly flicker, turn off, get super bright, refresh slowly
2019-05-11T05:03:00 < mawk> I opened the station it's like a home printed through hole PCB soldered by a kid
2019-05-11T05:03:06 < dongs> lols
2019-05-11T05:03:52 < mawk> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Wvc9QqZaxxk0B9VC_fvGVXPLg9b-ewUC/view?usp=sharing
2019-05-11T05:04:22 < mawk> it's like a DIP arduino ic
2019-05-11T05:04:24 < mawk> inside
2019-05-11T05:04:29 < mawk> I thought I can fix it or something
2019-05-11T05:04:35 < mawk> but not before getting at least 75% refund
2019-05-11T05:04:46 < mawk> I'll threaten to leave 1 star they will refund me at lightspeed
2019-05-11T05:05:09 < mawk> they said "soleding" instead of "soldering"
2019-05-11T05:05:09 < dongs> whats wrong? in that video it just looks like shitty chinese scanning of 7seg
2019-05-11T05:05:19 < mawk> well it didn't scan like this at the beggining
2019-05-11T05:05:21 < mawk> it was good
2019-05-11T05:05:25 < dongs> eh
2019-05-11T05:05:33 < mawk> then after 1 hour it started doing this, then turn off, then extra bright
2019-05-11T05:05:40 < jly> well l0de is sucking cocks today
2019-05-11T05:05:42 < dongs> lols
2019-05-11T05:06:18 < mawk> if I fix it I think it's worth the money, it was 50€
2019-05-11T05:06:37 < mawk> I wanted to solder qfn
2019-05-11T05:06:48 < mawk> and qfp
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2019-05-11T05:17:35 < ds2> mawk: you tried vxConnectBot?
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2019-05-11T05:19:37 < dongs> Cracki: update, the copied SD card is completely garbaged now. plugging it in/ejecting from car still keeps it passworded
2019-05-11T05:19:45 < dongs> i guess i need to find a rageberry or something with sdmmc driver and mass erase it
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2019-05-11T05:36:59 < dongs> Cracki: never mind, the problem was fucking lunix VM
2019-05-11T05:37:17 < dongs> fuck new vmware stealing USB even whern its not in foreground
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2019-05-11T05:53:57 < mawk> no ds2 but it looks ok
2019-05-11T05:56:09 < mawk> it's just ugly compared to regular GUI android apps
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2019-05-11T08:31:34 < Thorn> is this a good tool https://www.aliexpress.com/item/900Pcs-JST-XH-2-54mm-Connectors-Assortment-Kit-Crimping-Tool-with-Hand-Ferrule-Crimper-Plier-Crimp/32893595607.html
2019-05-11T08:34:02 < Thorn> according to this video it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV3O3zScbf4
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2019-05-11T11:19:10 < Cracki> dongs, excellent. maybe talk SPI to it? I'm sure there are arduino sketches for that ;)
2019-05-11T11:21:10 < dongs> nah, see the second ping. resolved
2019-05-11T11:21:29 < dongs> vmware trolled me
2019-05-11T11:42:52 < Cracki> I haven't had much fun with VMs and hardware either. usb passthrough was a bust when I wanted to play with an ice40 fpga and that certain open source toolchain (win host, linux vm)
2019-05-11T11:43:25 < dongs> usb passthrough works fine
2019-05-11T11:43:33 < dongs> vmware fagggots cahnged one option in v15
2019-05-11T11:43:45 < dongs> before "connect device to foreground VM" meant what it fucking reads as
2019-05-11T11:43:55 < dongs> you have a VM, either fullscreen or forergroundf, and USB input gboes there
2019-05-11T11:44:10 < dongs> now the same shit means "connect to VM even if its minimized
2019-05-11T11:44:36 < ub|k> is it common to see differences of 1 order of magnitude in the speed of FPU operations between optimized and non-optimized code?
2019-05-11T11:45:07 < dongs> on what platform?
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2019-05-11T11:46:20 < ub|k> stm32f407
2019-05-11T11:46:57 < ub|k> maybe it's because i'm using OCD?
2019-05-11T11:47:03 < dongs> no
2019-05-11T11:47:16 < dongs> are both debug and release build built with hardware fp?
2019-05-11T11:49:38 < ub|k> they should, yes
2019-05-11T11:50:24 < ub|k> are there any tools i can use together with openocd/gdb to profile my code?
2019-05-11T11:50:29 < ub|k> maybe that would help
2019-05-11T11:52:09 < Cracki> non-optimized meaning soft float or what
2019-05-11T11:52:27 < Cracki> disassemble maybe
2019-05-11T11:54:01 < Cracki> what are you doing, numerically?
2019-05-11T11:54:23 < ub|k> Cracki: not much, just multiplying floats
2019-05-11T11:54:28 < ub|k> it's a DSP filter
2019-05-11T11:54:30 < Cracki> show details
2019-05-11T11:54:46 < Cracki> also you want to look at the disassembly for at least that piece of code
2019-05-11T11:55:50 < Cracki> either your code does something easy to optimize, or your build settings for debug don't ask for the library functions that actually use the fpu
2019-05-11T12:00:16 < ub|k> Cracki: here you go: https://gist.github.com/pferreir/c88a8977dd132b3d0b9bf81293e4bd58
2019-05-11T12:00:20 < ub|k> (disclaimer: it's rust)
2019-05-11T12:00:28 < Cracki> aha!
2019-05-11T12:00:33 < dongs> found your problem
2019-05-11T12:00:43 < dongs> f32????
2019-05-11T12:00:54 < Cracki> tons of assertions and bounds checks in debug mode, I'll bet
2019-05-11T12:01:03 < dongs> wait, is f32 float or double?
2019-05-11T12:01:07 < Cracki> single
2019-05-11T12:01:08 < ub|k> dongs: float
2019-05-11T12:01:10 < Cracki> 64 is dbl
2019-05-11T12:01:38 < Cracki> f16 only sounds familiar because it's been getting popular for machine learning
2019-05-11T12:02:41 < Cracki> wait, using magic numbers (199, 200) without naming them? can't you just try the access and rust gives you an exception or something you can handle?
2019-05-11T12:03:23 < Cracki> this stuff reads like haskell with more syntax
2019-05-11T12:08:16 < ub|k> Cracki: it's actually quite nice once you get used to it
2019-05-11T12:08:32 < Cracki> they say that about buttsecks too
2019-05-11T12:39:09 < Steffanx> jly: 
2019-05-11T12:54:44 < ub|k> Cracki: removing the explicit bounds check doesn't help much
2019-05-11T12:54:55 < Cracki> view assembly
2019-05-11T12:55:18 < Cracki> or ask the rust people what they are doing there
2019-05-11T12:55:23 < ub|k> yeah
2019-05-11T12:55:41 < ub|k> arm assembly reads like ancient greek to me
2019-05-11T12:56:06 < Cracki> well find the assembly for the procedure you're interested in, and compare lengths at least
2019-05-11T13:01:30 < ub|k> weird... the release assembly seems to be missing stuff :/
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2019-05-11T13:15:46 < Cracki> missing as in?
2019-05-11T13:16:23 < jly> I've found a new device mate
2019-05-11T13:18:40 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/hH5EYxku/m.png
2019-05-11T13:23:48 < Cracki> weird device
2019-05-11T13:47:22 < Mangy_Dog> anyone happen to know off hand what the power consumption of the f103 is at 72mhz and when its running at 48 mhz? or know of a comparative table?
2019-05-11T13:48:35 < jly> []
2019-05-11T13:48:36 < dongs>   ua/MHz is listed in datasheet
2019-05-11T13:48:54 < dongs> including peripheral power consumption etc.
2019-05-11T13:48:55 < Mangy_Dog> ahh checking now
2019-05-11T13:48:59 < dongs> im to lazy to look it up
2019-05-11T13:49:09 < Mangy_Dog> nono thats fine
2019-05-11T13:49:14 < Mangy_Dog> now i know where to look :Lp
2019-05-11T13:49:34 < Mangy_Dog> should have realised  current draw would be in the datasheet... just didnt expect it to show it across speed states
2019-05-11T13:49:37 < dongs> table 17 in electrical characteristics
2019-05-11T13:50:34 < Mangy_Dog> happen to know what page thats on
2019-05-11T13:52:20 < dongs> Table 17. Typical current consumption in Run mode, code with data processing
2019-05-11T13:52:21 < dongs> running from Flash
2019-05-11T13:52:36 < Mangy_Dog> think im reading the wrong datasheet :/ no trable 17 :D
2019-05-11T13:54:11 < Mangy_Dog> found it
2019-05-11T13:54:12 < Mangy_Dog> :)
2019-05-11T13:54:15 < Mangy_Dog> was wrong datasheet
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2019-05-11T13:55:41 < jly> Steffann mate
2019-05-11T13:56:09 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm droping to 48mhz bearly drops it 9ma
2019-05-11T13:56:10 < Mangy_Dog> from 27
2019-05-11T13:56:27 < Mangy_Dog> all i need is usb the rest can be turned off
2019-05-11T13:56:37 < Mangy_Dog> though all im doing is running a game controller HID 
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2019-05-11T14:04:29 < Steffann> Sleep it when you can Mangy_Dog 
2019-05-11T14:05:20 < Mangy_Dog> well cant really
2019-05-11T14:05:28 < Mangy_Dog> its a game controller.... will always be used
2019-05-11T14:05:35 < Mangy_Dog> when the device is active
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2019-05-11T14:08:53 < dongs> why the shit are you using F1
2019-05-11T14:08:56 < dongs> on a game controller
2019-05-11T14:09:01 < dongs> everyone else has been using F0 for this
2019-05-11T14:11:30 < Mangy_Dog> i have f1s on hand
2019-05-11T14:11:48 < Mangy_Dog> and i dont think the core ill be using suports f0
2019-05-11T14:12:22 < dongs> 'core'?
2019-05-11T14:12:54 < Mangy_Dog> building core.... like rogers stm32duino
2019-05-11T14:13:00 < Mangy_Dog> the genric cores
2019-05-11T14:20:40 < Laurenceb_> elliot rogers?
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2019-05-11T14:20:48 < Mangy_Dog> the libraries im going to use to run the HID use those cores
2019-05-11T14:20:52 < Mangy_Dog> roger clarks
2019-05-11T14:23:59 < Steffann> doing things does not mean you cant go into sleep mode 99% of the time Mangy_Dog
2019-05-11T14:24:08 < Steffann> anyway you reallly care about 9ma?
2019-05-11T14:25:28 < Mangy_Dog> its a battery powered device i want it efficiant
2019-05-11T14:25:41 < Mangy_Dog> i might even forgo the stm32 all together and just try and use the gpio on the pi im using
2019-05-11T14:25:51 < Mangy_Dog> but thats also difficult too
2019-05-11T14:25:56 < Mangy_Dog> as i need adc
2019-05-11T14:26:29 < Mangy_Dog> though yeah sure 30ma isnt a huge amount and i might just let it go
2019-05-11T14:39:48 < Mangy_Dog> the f0 is looking like an option though
2019-05-11T14:39:55 < Mangy_Dog> 12.8ma
2019-05-11T14:39:59 < Mangy_Dog> internal clock
2019-05-11T14:40:01 < Mangy_Dog> usb
2019-05-11T14:46:09 < Cracki> you said usb, so why not power from usb instead of battery?
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2019-05-11T14:46:32 < jly> lol
2019-05-11T14:46:34 < Cracki> ah, ic
2019-05-11T14:46:38 < jly> Overdose?
2019-05-11T14:47:09 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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2019-05-11T15:10:33 < effractur> a
2019-05-11T15:27:40 < karlp> ub|k: you can profile using the.... profile command in openocd for instnce.
2019-05-11T15:28:12 < karlp> and yes, an order of magnitude between unoptimized and optimized isn'
2019-05-11T15:28:14 < karlp> t at all unreasonable
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2019-05-11T16:05:51 < dongs> who was that faggot who wanted to make timecode receiver to save $ on a gps
2019-05-11T16:08:31 < karlp> that was catphish too wsn't it? for their orienteering nfc thingy?
2019-05-11T16:08:59 < dongs> oh is that it?
2019-05-11T16:09:13 < dongs> there's a timecode transmitter on a mountain nearby
2019-05-11T16:09:24 < dongs> i wanna climb it to check it out but I need a receiver to test that it works :)
2019-05-11T16:09:33 < marble_visions> karlp: re:profiling.. i don't know who you're replying to but i'm interested
2019-05-11T16:09:45 < marble_visions> re: profiling, damn emoticons
2019-05-11T16:09:51 < dongs> i mean.. rust? lol
2019-05-11T16:11:02 < BrainDamage> dongs: japan?
2019-05-11T16:11:06 < dongs> yes
2019-05-11T16:11:10 < dongs> JJY-60
2019-05-11T16:11:33 < karlp> marble_visions: jsut do it then, it's in the manual ....
2019-05-11T16:11:40 < dongs> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JJY
2019-05-11T16:12:54 < karlp> marble_visions: there's some less simple out of the box methods that have more performance, and there's also methods for more explicit exception tracing, rahter than PC sampling, but they're all useful
2019-05-11T16:12:58 < englishman> isn't that typically the kind of signal you can demodulate with Arduino gpio
2019-05-11T16:13:12 < dongs> yes
2019-05-11T16:13:14 < dongs> its just a beep
2019-05-11T16:13:26 < marble_visions> karlp: thanks
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2019-05-11T16:13:58 < BrainDamage> you need a coil antenna, an amp, and a crystal filter
2019-05-11T16:14:21 < dongs> im hoping when im at the mountain , i won't need an atenna
2019-05-11T16:14:25 < BrainDamage> if you go below, the signal might be strong you may not need the amp and the filter
2019-05-11T16:14:41 < BrainDamage> then get a WWVB decoder software, and invert the bits in front
2019-05-11T16:14:56 < dongs> LA1652 exists which is some sanyo jappo frontend for this stuff
2019-05-11T16:15:02 < dongs> but its a wirebond die not an IC
2019-05-11T16:15:24 < BrainDamage> for those things, they are mostly wirebond dies, and you buy a module with it on top
2019-05-11T16:15:41 < dongs> hmm why is thaT? cuz they go into shitty cheap clocks and stuff?
2019-05-11T16:15:46 < BrainDamage> correct
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2019-05-11T16:23:28 < catphish> dongs: that was me, it didn't work
2019-05-11T16:23:48 < catphish> but you can get a timecode receiver cheap enough on ebay :)
2019-05-11T16:24:34 -!- kow_ [~afed@135.0.26.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2019-05-11T16:26:45 < dongs> https://tinkersphere.com/sensors/1517-wwvb-nist-radio-time-receiver-kit.html yeah some maker trash like thsi but i wont pay more than 2.49 for it
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2019-05-11T16:51:03 < qyx> BrainDamage: cannot you iq-downmix it using some analog switch with a audio pll or what and then lowpass to few hertz?
2019-05-11T16:51:54 < qyx> I mean to avoid the filter.. downmix it unfiltered and unamplified
2019-05-11T16:52:06 < qyx> I have seen something similar in the past
2019-05-11T16:54:42 < BrainDamage> sure, provided your receiver doesn't saturate
2019-05-11T16:55:10 < BrainDamage> if you use a resonant antenna, which is typical at those freq, it's unlikely, since the antenna makes for a good pre-filter
2019-05-11T16:55:34 < BrainDamage> 10^2 Q or so should suffice
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2019-05-11T17:34:52 < Thorn> wtf is this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/CNLX-SN-2549-Crimping-Tools-for-AWG28-18-0-08-1-0-mm2-XH2-54-Dupont/32922587154.html
2019-05-11T17:35:52 < Steffann> its a crimp tool
2019-05-11T17:36:19 < Thorn> why is it so weird
2019-05-11T17:36:52 < Thorn> the die is made of 4 parts?
2019-05-11T17:38:21 < mawk> can I unplug the connectors that look like forks ?
2019-05-11T17:38:27 < mawk> like you have on 220V stuff
2019-05-11T17:39:13 < Thorn> http://www.elecdirect.com/media/catalog/category/xspade-fork-terminals.jpg.pagespeed.ic.pMOmHYO7EQ.jpg ?
2019-05-11T17:41:13 < dongs> i think they're called spade terminals
2019-05-11T17:41:48 < mawk> ah thanks
2019-05-11T17:41:55 < mawk> I was googling for fork connector but didn't find anything
2019-05-11T17:43:49 < Thorn> the reviews are superlative
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2019-05-11T17:44:53 < bitmask> https://cdn.aws.toolstation.com/images/141020-UK/800/37750.jpg
2019-05-11T17:44:57 < bitmask> thought those were spade terminals
2019-05-11T17:45:15 < bitmask> thought fork was correct for what you posted
2019-05-11T17:45:17 < Thorn> https://i.imgur.com/byu3aUS.png
2019-05-11T17:46:52 < Thorn> roughly correct yes
2019-05-11T17:47:45 < mawk> there are two parts bitmask 
2019-05-11T17:47:58 < mawk> the forky thing and that thing you showed, I think
2019-05-11T17:48:05 < mawk> but it's crimped, I can't unplug them right
2019-05-11T17:49:41 < bitmask> the second part of what I showed is this: https://images.clasohlson.com/medias/sys_master/9582422884382.jpg
2019-05-11T17:50:01 < Thorn> a crimped terminal can only be cut off
2019-05-11T17:50:13 < mawk> yes I think it's that bitmask 
2019-05-11T17:50:30 < bitmask> from the crimped end yes, but the non crimped end can slide in 
2019-05-11T17:50:31 < mawk> in the chinese hot air station wires with these terminals pass through a hole in the pcb
2019-05-11T17:50:37 < mawk> so if I can't unplug them I can't remove the pcb
2019-05-11T17:51:03 < mawk> so I pull on it ?
2019-05-11T17:51:06 < bitmask> yes you would need to cut them off and crimp on new ones then
2019-05-11T17:51:10 < mawk> ah
2019-05-11T17:51:41 < mawk> lame
2019-05-11T17:51:47 < mawk> I should ask for refund
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2019-05-11T18:04:49 < bitmask> a cheap crimper is nice to have, I got it for rewiring my 3d printer
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2019-05-11T18:41:13 < qyx> bitmask: those are faston/fastin terminals
2019-05-11T18:42:28 < qyx> mawk: they are not crimped together
2019-05-11T18:42:46 < qyx> they can be unplugged
2019-05-11T18:43:18 < qyx> ie. fastin crimped to a wire, faston crimped to another wire, fastin-faston can be plugged together
2019-05-11T18:43:27 < qyx> there is also a round version
2019-05-11T18:43:43 < qyx> https://media.highlight-led.de/products/images/49353.jpg
2019-05-11T18:45:51 < mawk> hmm I see
2019-05-11T18:45:56 < mawk> so I should try just pulling on it
2019-05-11T18:47:34 < Thorn> if there're 2 terminals connected together you can pull them apart. if you want to remove a terminal from the wire then use your wire cutters
2019-05-11T18:48:04 < mawk> yes it's two parts
2019-05-11T18:48:09 < mawk> if I rotate it moves, but I can't pull on it
2019-05-11T18:48:12 < mawk> but I didn't try hard enough
2019-05-11T18:54:57 < qyx> bitmask: tell be about the orienteering thing, was it that pcb with a nfc transceiver and a gps/something else to synchronize time? what should the attendants do? come to it with a card and the thing writes the actual time to the card?
2019-05-11T18:55:01 < qyx> *me
2019-05-11T19:12:13 < Steffann> Wasnt that catphish?
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2019-05-11T19:18:14 < qyx> also possible, catphish ^
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2019-05-11T19:46:04 < englishman> is there winamp for android
2019-05-11T19:46:19 < englishman> or, Better question, what is a good music playing app for assdroid
2019-05-11T19:46:32 < mawk> foobar
2019-05-11T19:46:47 < englishman> the google one sucks dicks and apparently even google hates it enough they are killing it
2019-05-11T19:47:18 < englishman> nice android 4.0 interface
2019-05-11T19:48:07 < mawk> lol
2019-05-11T19:48:09 < qyx> I am using vlc
2019-05-11T19:48:18 < qyx> idk if it is the best(tm)
2019-05-11T19:48:24 < mawk> ™
2019-05-11T19:48:25 < englishman> cool foobar will do fine
2019-05-11T19:48:30 < englishman> VLC for assdroid?
2019-05-11T19:48:34 < qyx> yes
2019-05-11T19:48:36 < englishman> oh I think I tried that
2019-05-11T19:48:43 < qyx> it was unusable in the past
2019-05-11T19:48:44 < dongs> dont bother with vlc lol
2019-05-11T19:48:49 < englishman> it was about as unstable as vlc for windows
2019-05-11T19:48:50 < dongs> it still is unusable
2019-05-11T19:48:50 < qyx> now it somewhat ~suffices
2019-05-11T19:49:39 < qyx> there was apollo in cyanogenmod
2019-05-11T19:50:13 < englishman> that was nice, back then
2019-05-11T19:50:30 < englishman> foobar is working fine
2019-05-11T19:51:15 < mawk> I use it on desktop too
2019-05-11T19:51:57 < qyx> oh discontinued now too
2019-05-11T19:54:31 < qyx> whats so awesome about foobar?
2019-05-11T19:55:08 < englishman> idk if I'd say awesome
2019-05-11T19:55:11 < englishman> it works
2019-05-11T19:55:25 < englishman> iv eusdd it for 5 seconds now and don't hate it
2019-05-11T19:55:49 < qyx> then its better than altium
2019-05-11T19:55:56 < englishman> yes
2019-05-11T19:56:07 < englishman> speaking of which
2019-05-11T19:56:24 < englishman> does anyone want the material from the $2k usd advanced altidumb course
2019-05-11T19:59:07 < dongs> foobar interface reeks of assdroid 2.0
2019-05-11T19:59:17 < englishman> yes
2019-05-11T19:59:28 < englishman> which means fast and limited whitespace
2019-05-11T19:59:53 < englishman> google music player would chug scrolling the stupid title bar left and right
2019-05-11T19:59:57 < englishman> fucking dumb shit
2019-05-11T20:00:43 < dongs> wow it can play mp2
2019-05-11T20:00:44 < dongs> nice]
2019-05-11T20:00:46 < dongs> winner
2019-05-11T20:00:59 < dongs> i have a bunch of satellite caps in mp2
2019-05-11T20:01:01 < dongs> of muzak
2019-05-11T20:01:09 < dongs> nothing on fgtdroid plays that
2019-05-11T20:03:08 < mawk> with usb how can I tell the computer to stop sending and buffer whatever it's doing before continuing ?
2019-05-11T20:03:17 < mawk> I try setting the endpoint in STALL but then frames just get dropped
2019-05-11T20:03:21 < mawk> the computer keeps sending
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2019-05-11T20:25:59 < catphish> qyx: just saw your message, it's an stm32 coupled with an NFC transceiver and a RTC, it writes an id and a timestamp to any nfc card that comes nearby, time is set by an android device using NFC, i gave up on attempting to pull the time from GPS or any other automatic source
2019-05-11T20:29:05 < catphish> qyx: https://imgur.com/a/tNmlkje
2019-05-11T20:30:53 < catphish> see also: http://nutty.tk/nfc12.pdf
2019-05-11T20:41:31 < qyx> catphish: to any?
2019-05-11T20:42:09 < qyx> does it simply hang outdoors?
2019-05-11T20:43:31 < qyx> interesting, is there any particular reason for the external rtc?
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2019-05-11T20:59:53 < englishman> how should I solder this 1/0 gauge wire to a PCB
2019-05-11T21:00:05 < englishman> thermaldongix is just not cutting it
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2019-05-11T21:33:29 < catphish> qyx: yes, it's designed to be hung or screwed to a fence post
2019-05-11T21:34:43 < qyx> very interesting, much wow, just reading ST25 pages
2019-05-11T21:35:16 < qyx> there are 64kbit tags
2019-05-11T21:36:38 < qyx> I am still trying to understand the NDEF stuff
2019-05-11T21:38:20 < catphish> qyx: and the external rtc is actually just an external oscillator, it's very accurate and temp controlled
2019-05-11T21:38:26 < scrts> https://9gag.com/gag/aWYP1Wq
2019-05-11T21:39:00 < catphish> *temperature compensated
2019-05-11T21:39:42 < catphish> the tags i use are ntag215
2019-05-11T21:40:39 < catphish> qyx: if you like bare metal implementations, the source code is here: https://github.com/catphish/ocontrol
2019-05-11T21:42:36 < catphish> it has 2 NFC functions, if it sees an android phone it requests an specific proprietary protocol, which causes the phone to load an app and send the time to the device, this is the same way NFC card payment works
2019-05-11T21:44:22 < catphish> or if it sees a dumb storage card, it just writes the timestamp to the first sector, that needs to be expanded so that the cards have a filesystem of sorts so it can identify that the card is intended for this purpose, and then choose a free slot to write the timestamp to
2019-05-11T21:44:52 < qyx> isn't the NDEF exactly for this?
2019-05-11T21:45:25 < qyx> if it sees a card, select the NDEF application, create a new NDEF file and write something to it
2019-05-11T21:45:28 < qyx> and then, idk
2019-05-11T21:45:51 < catphish> qyx: actually i never got as far as looking at tag filesystems, so the answer might be yes
2019-05-11T21:46:46 < catphish> another cool thing about this design is the power consumption, which is basically nothing
2019-05-11T21:47:16 < catphish> the stm32 and st95hf both have amazing low power modes
2019-05-11T21:47:56 < qyx> what's the battery you are using?
2019-05-11T21:48:12 < qyx> It looks like 12V alkaline
2019-05-11T21:48:20 < qyx> but I see not vreg for it
2019-05-11T21:48:26 < qyx> *no
2019-05-11T21:50:32 < catphish> it's a cr123a
2019-05-11T21:50:58 < catphish> 3v, high capacity, long life
2019-05-11T21:52:55 < catphish> 1,480 mA/h with a 10+ year life
2019-05-11T21:53:03 < catphish> a little bulky, but cool
2019-05-11T21:54:36 < catphish> this one on my desk has been running for about 7 months :)
2019-05-11T21:55:01 < catphish> i've not actually got round do measuring its current draw, not sure i have an ammeter accurate enough
2019-05-11T21:56:29 < catphish> it should be around 100uA
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2019-05-11T22:54:13 < Thorn> ADS1220 requires SPI mode 1
2019-05-11T22:54:16 < Thorn> wtf why
2019-05-11T22:55:49 < Steffann> love
2019-05-11T22:57:00 < qyx> catphish: great, in the past a friend of mine requested a device to do a very similar thing for a long mountain runs.. but this was before any NFC-called RFID was trendy and also I was more dumb at that time, you know
2019-05-11T22:58:22 < qyx> but if the thing is ~cheap enough to be allowed to be stolen or lost, I can make something
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2019-05-11T23:01:31 < catphish> qyx: these were my guess-costings https://i.imgur.com/HZiNMqB.png
2019-05-11T23:02:01 < catphish> prices in GBP excluding tax
2019-05-11T23:03:27 < catphish> but i know literally nothing about mass production, so take it as guesswork
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2019-05-11T23:24:12 < scrts> has anyone ever seen a weather proof enclosure for a pro camera?
2019-05-11T23:25:51 < qyx> like this? https://www.cctvcameraworld.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x/af097278c5db4767b0fe9bb92fe21690/i/n/infrared-outdoor-cctv-housing.jpg
2019-05-11T23:38:11 < qyx> nah jpa-landers are winning
2019-05-11T23:38:48 < Steffann> Ice hockey?
2019-05-11T23:38:54 < kakimir> what is jpa-kaki land winning?
2019-05-11T23:39:42 < qyx> Steffann: yeah
2019-05-11T23:39:50 < Thorn> hide 3d bodies in 3d view (altium disaster): shift+Z
2019-05-11T23:41:33 < kakimir> http://hackedgadgets.com/2015/06/14/tig-welder-auto-pulse-system/
2019-05-11T23:41:41 < kakimir> I think going to build my own
2019-05-11T23:42:06 < kakimir> it should power itself from the remote connector of the machine
2019-05-11T23:42:18 < kakimir> also pass through for pedal
2019-05-11T23:48:00 < mawk> it's S3F94C4 mcu inside the hot air station
2019-05-11T23:49:41 < Thorn> I almost submitted my pcb without pours wtf
2019-05-11T23:50:50 < Steffann> Typical .fi/sk sport qyx :)
2019-05-11T23:51:27 < kakimir> when it's fin-swe for gold it gets intense
2019-05-11T23:51:31 < Steffann> Hows the potmeter box kakimir ? Did you go midi controller yet?
2019-05-11T23:51:42 < kakimir> I just got depression
2019-05-11T23:51:53 < kakimir> I'll start with that
2019-05-11T23:52:01 < qyx> thats the first step to success
2019-05-11T23:52:24 < kakimir> took one week off work because of the struggle
2019-05-11T23:52:51 < kakimir> and other things
2019-05-11T23:53:33 < Steffann> Depression? Time to get more sunlight on your naked skin, kakimir 
2019-05-11T23:53:45 < kakimir> yeah it rains outside
2019-05-11T23:53:51 < qyx> take xanax instead
2019-05-11T23:53:57 < Steffann> Snow is gone?
2019-05-11T23:54:12 < kakimir> yeah like a week ago
2019-05-11T23:56:10  * qyx @ Anathema - Lightning Song
2019-05-11T23:56:12 < qyx> kakimir: ^
2019-05-11T23:56:19 < qyx> good for depression and rain&storm
2019-05-11T23:56:27 < kakimir> no thanks
2019-05-11T23:56:36 < qyx> me sad
2019-05-11T23:57:35 < Steffann> The proper way is: [youtube link here] special kakimusic for kakimir 
2019-05-11T23:58:29 < kakimir> :o
--- Day changed Sun May 12 2019
2019-05-12T00:00:24 < BrainDamage> xanax is for anxiety, not depression
2019-05-12T00:00:40 < catphish> ugh, need to get back to USB
2019-05-12T00:00:51 < catphish> it has its own ram, this is crazy nonsense :)
2019-05-12T00:00:54 < BrainDamage> SSRI and SNRI for for depression
2019-05-12T00:01:23 < BrainDamage> kakimir: light physical exercise does usually help for mild depression
2019-05-12T00:02:01 < kakimir> ##doctor32
2019-05-12T00:02:11 < BrainDamage> well, go to a doctor
2019-05-12T00:02:38 < Steffann> And feeling down a bit is not a depression, i guess
2019-05-12T00:02:46 < kakimir> yeah I don't really have a problem
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2019-05-12T00:03:50 < kakimir> potpox just got me a bit too excited
2019-05-12T00:03:57 < kakimir> potbox
2019-05-12T00:04:15 < Steffanx> What is potbox?
2019-05-12T00:04:41 < Steffanx> Oh a druggie thing?
2019-05-12T00:05:27 < kakimir> yeah.. hard drugz
2019-05-12T00:05:33 < Steffanx> Sure.
2019-05-12T00:05:41 < Steffanx> Does it work like snus?
2019-05-12T00:05:47 < kakimir> when simple poking of parameters doesn't cut it anymore
2019-05-12T00:06:03 < kakimir> you end up building your own potbox
2019-05-12T00:06:23 < Steffanx> Ooh such potbox. Potmeter box
2019-05-12T00:06:38 < Steffanx> I would still aliexpress it
2019-05-12T00:06:55 < kakimir> no I don't want interface midi
2019-05-12T00:07:11 < kakimir> or usb in that matter
2019-05-12T00:07:19 < Steffanx> Yes you do
2019-05-12T00:07:41 < Steffanx> Box -> pc -> your device
2019-05-12T00:08:03 < Steffanx> Where pc -> your device can be "anything"
2019-05-12T00:08:23 < kakimir> how does that differ from potbox?
2019-05-12T00:08:36 < kakimir> but that having more interface layers?
2019-05-12T00:08:56 < kakimir> and 3-4week shipping
2019-05-12T00:09:14 < Steffanx> Efford.
2019-05-12T00:09:33 < kakimir> box is 0 effort
2019-05-12T00:09:38 < Steffanx> And your potbox is already 2 weeks into development
2019-05-12T00:09:51 < kakimir> the software side of it
2019-05-12T00:10:08 < kakimir> the thing
2019-05-12T00:10:35 < Steffanx> Im going to order one :P
2019-05-12T00:10:54 < kakimir> dj stefpa
2019-05-12T00:11:51 < Steffanx> No not to dj
2019-05-12T00:12:50 < Steffanx> To show kakimir how easy it can be. And to see who has it done first :P
2019-05-12T00:13:43 < kakimir> rules: must use GDB/MI
2019-05-12T00:14:09 < kakimir> minimum configuration level is configuration file
2019-05-12T00:16:48 < kakimir> no hardcoding filenames, variable names, ranges/scaling or number of variables, refresh rates etc.
2019-05-12T00:17:00 < Steffanx> GDB for what? To set the variables on the target?
2019-05-12T00:17:07 < kakimir> and read them
2019-05-12T00:17:20 < Steffanx> Whats the point in that?
2019-05-12T00:18:44 < kakimir> also flag variables one or multiple are used to control updating - writing or reading of variable groups, flags are set by the target
2019-05-12T00:19:38 < Steffanx> So what will youe potbox me connected to? To the target directly?
2019-05-12T00:19:43 < Steffanx> Be*
2019-05-12T00:19:50 < kakimir> PC
2019-05-12T00:20:08 < Steffanx> So using gdb is pointless.
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2019-05-12T00:20:25 < kakimir> how so?
2019-05-12T00:20:47 < Steffanx> Using gdb as interface to your potbox?
2019-05-12T00:21:04 < kakimir> target ofc
2019-05-12T00:21:33 < Steffanx> And how will your potbox connect to the pc?
2019-05-12T00:22:51 < qyx> I don't get what Steffanx is not getting
2019-05-12T00:23:10 < kakimir> serial over usb but rs232 should work just as well if you preffer
2019-05-12T00:23:13 < qyx> I understand it like the potbox is a rmote control of gdb
2019-05-12T00:23:32 < qyx> instead of entering tuning variables into gdb, you just use your pots
2019-05-12T00:23:47 < qyx> and it should work with any target you are debugging, hence the gdb
2019-05-12T00:23:56 < kakimir> writes and reads are timed too
2019-05-12T00:24:02 < kakimir> target is not halted
2019-05-12T00:24:10 < kakimir> hence flag variables
2019-05-12T00:24:21 < qyx> you program, k, program, k, debug, k, no worky, fix, program, debug, k, something not working as expected with the constants provided
2019-05-12T00:24:27 < qyx> k, attach a potbox to your gdb session
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2019-05-12T00:24:42 < qyx> and turn the know to adjust the value from 60-80 and observe the result
2019-05-12T00:24:56 < qyx> imho it actually may be usable
2019-05-12T00:25:09 < qyx> *the knob
2019-05-12T00:25:33 < kakimir> it's not the first thing you need but luxyry for special purposes
2019-05-12T00:26:05 < Steffanx> I did get that part qyx, but kakimir was never clear on how he wanted to connect the potbox
2019-05-12T00:26:17 < qyx> oh
2019-05-12T00:26:29 < qyx> with a cable, no?
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2019-05-12T00:26:57 < Steffanx> To the pc and what interface
2019-05-12T00:27:17 < Steffanx> But serial it is
2019-05-12T00:29:01 < Steffanx> But now its more clear to me what kakimir wants .
2019-05-12T00:32:06 < qyx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apVR5Htz0K4
2019-05-12T00:32:07 < qyx> ^
2019-05-12T00:32:46 < kakimir>  pots -> filtering -> ADC -> format all the samples as a line of CSV with value ranges <ie. 0-1023 or even better 0.0 - 1.0> -> clock it out from uart -> (serial interfacing between potbox and pc program)
2019-05-12T00:34:45 < kakimir> and repeat
2019-05-12T00:35:11 < kakimir> box ain't a problem
2019-05-12T00:35:17 < Steffanx> And what on the pc side? Some gdb extension?
2019-05-12T00:37:57 < kakimir> program that interfaces with GDB/MI, controller input whatever it might be, variable read values output whatever it might be
2019-05-12T00:52:15 < Steffanx> But i want my normal gdb debugging session as well
2019-05-12T00:53:29 < kakimir> hmm
2019-05-12T00:53:41 < kakimir> implement transparent GDB interface
2019-05-12T00:53:52 < kakimir> with passthrough
2019-05-12T01:00:04 < qyx> neural network accelerator, sounds legit
2019-05-12T01:03:25 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
2019-05-12T01:13:26 < Steffanx> Wut qyx?
2019-05-12T01:14:03 < qyx> https://www.gyrfalcontech.ai/
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2019-05-12T01:14:17 < qyx> and http://www.orangepi.org/Orange%20Pi%20AI%20Stick%202801/
2019-05-12T01:14:52 < englishman> wasn't Laurent looking into that chink chip that had similar shit
2019-05-12T01:15:02 < englishman> before he autismed severely and got banned again
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2019-05-12T01:25:33 < mawk> lol
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2019-05-12T01:46:21 < qyx> zyp: re value line F7 devices with super small internal flash, see AN5188, impact from executing from external NOR or quadspi flash is minimal for CoreMark benchmark
2019-05-12T01:46:57 < qyx> idk how much it slows down in a real world scenario though
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2019-05-12T02:49:35 < specing> There are value line F7 devices? LOL
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2019-05-12T04:28:02 < mawk> https://pix.watch/xCj8qW/rOHHGO.jpeg
2019-05-12T04:28:08 < mawk> I have incredible photoshop skills
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2019-05-12T04:57:30 < fenugrec> mawk, not bad. For finer PCB I process files thru Hugin to get them as rectangular as possible
2019-05-12T04:57:35 < englishman> neato
2019-05-12T04:57:37 < fenugrec>  / isometric
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2019-05-12T06:17:26 < dongs> https://www.makuake.com/project/unkobtn/ found maker shit, literally
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2019-05-12T06:25:59 < jadew> dongs, what's that? it's for reporting when the kid takes a dump?
2019-05-12T06:26:32 < jadew> a shortcut button for a "my kid just soiled himself" status update on social media?
2019-05-12T06:26:42 < dongs> yes
2019-05-12T06:26:46 < dongs> literally
2019-05-12T06:27:08 < jadew> seems it hit its target
2019-05-12T06:27:14 < dongs> absolutely, and shipped
2019-05-12T06:27:24 < jadew> so there seems to be an interest for that in japan
2019-05-12T06:27:31 < jadew> (not surprisingly)
2019-05-12T06:28:02 < dongs> https://hayabusa.io/makuake/upload/project/3648/communication/116907.JPG?pq=false&format=jpg&ttl=31536000&force
2019-05-12T06:28:18 < dongs> is that a fucking esp1488 in there
2019-05-12T06:29:10 < jadew> 5k usd?
2019-05-12T06:29:15 < jadew> is that how much they raised?
2019-05-12T06:29:34 < dongs> Ya
2019-05-12T06:29:46 < jadew> eh, wouldn't call it a success then
2019-05-12T06:32:28 < jadew> they probably lost money on that
2019-05-12T06:33:16 < jadew> 5e3 / 182 = 27.5 / pcs, including shipping I assume?
2019-05-12T06:33:50 < jadew> what could be their margin? $10?
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2019-05-12T11:36:41 < Steffanx> Lol jappies
2019-05-12T11:52:33 < jly> the mad turtle
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2019-05-12T16:27:39 < Mangy_Dog> if im programming with a stlink do i need to do anything funny with the boot pins to get it to work?
2019-05-12T16:27:52 < Mangy_Dog> or will the stlink take over like a arduino programmer odes?
2019-05-12T16:27:53 < Mangy_Dog> does
2019-05-12T16:28:27 < Mangy_Dog> tbh i used to know this but its been a while... and i need to know if i need to expose my boot pins on my pcb design
2019-05-12T16:30:12 < englishman> debugger is completely apart from boot select pins
2019-05-12T16:30:29 < englishman> where on the stlink did you plan on connecting them?
2019-05-12T16:31:43 < specing> > arduino programmer
2019-05-12T16:31:45 < specing> kek
2019-05-12T16:31:56 < Steffanx> Laurenceb__ is that you?
2019-05-12T16:33:55 < Mangy_Dog> stlink to the sdio pins
2019-05-12T16:33:58 < Mangy_Dog> sdio clk
2019-05-12T16:34:21 < Mangy_Dog> spec i mean like the asp or isp...
2019-05-12T16:34:39 < Steffanx> swd*
2019-05-12T16:35:05 < Mangy_Dog> sorry eya
2019-05-12T16:37:31 < Mangy_Dog> so anyway, does the stlink program the stm32f103 irrispective of the boot pin configuration?
2019-05-12T16:38:37 < Steffanx> it should yeah
2019-05-12T16:39:01 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2019-05-12T16:42:03 < specing> Mangy_Dog: the BOOT pin only matters for its internal bootloader
2019-05-12T16:42:43 < specing> actually I find it odd that the BOOT pin is not a normal I/O
2019-05-12T16:42:57 < specing> waste of TSSOP-20
2019-05-12T16:42:59 < specing> pins
2019-05-12T16:43:57 < Mangy_Dog> on the baite maple mini.... the second button, what is that tied to? Just a GPIO where the boot loader looks at its status to put it into the boot mode thing (cant remember like i say its been a while)
2019-05-12T16:44:14 < Mangy_Dog> or to one of the boot pins?
2019-05-12T16:47:32 < specing> Mangy_Dog: open the datasheet?
2019-05-12T16:47:58 < Mangy_Dog> found a circuit diagram
2019-05-12T16:48:02 < Mangy_Dog> its not on any datasheet
2019-05-12T16:55:03 < specing> Mangy_Dog: each ST devkit has schematics in the datasheet
2019-05-12T16:56:31 < zyp> specing, not true
2019-05-12T16:57:24 < zyp> specing, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/s7WgT.png <- tssop20 has boot0 shared with pb8
2019-05-12T16:58:49 < specing> zyp: hmm interesting, I'll check f030 ds
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2019-05-12T18:43:36 < jadew> filmed some stuff with my 650D and I'm not happy with the quality
2019-05-12T18:44:09 < jadew> the image is not as detailed as it could be for HD
2019-05-12T18:45:36 < Mangy_Dog> i find the canon cameras need a huge amount of light to get good video footage on
2019-05-12T18:45:48 < Mangy_Dog> but you also need good glass too
2019-05-12T18:45:54 < jadew> I have good glass
2019-05-12T18:46:06 < jadew> and it was on manual mode, well exposed
2019-05-12T18:46:09 < Mangy_Dog> how well lit if your scene?
2019-05-12T18:46:12 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2019-05-12T18:46:32 < jadew> but what I noticed was that if I used the zoom in feature (for focusing)
2019-05-12T18:46:38 < jadew> I would get amazing detail
2019-05-12T18:46:50 < jadew> but it just doesn't translate into the video
2019-05-12T18:47:02 < Mangy_Dog> if anything you need to light your scene like you would a film from 20 years ago... really REALLY over light teh scene... like use a 100w bulb instead of a 25w bulb for a lamp shade.... and massive lights for your primarys
2019-05-12T18:47:09 < jadew> it's like it's looksing 8 times the resolution and then it's upscaling
2019-05-12T18:47:14 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2019-05-12T18:48:13 < Mangy_Dog> but try really over ramping the light if you can
2019-05-12T18:48:18 < Mangy_Dog> lots and lots of light
2019-05-12T18:48:21 < jadew> I'll give it a try
2019-05-12T18:48:34 < Mangy_Dog> its like i can film in the sun and it works fine
2019-05-12T18:48:43 < Mangy_Dog> but indoors in what i think is well enough lit it really struggles
2019-05-12T18:49:08 < jadew> I had two lamps on my subject, so it was fairly well lit
2019-05-12T18:49:10 < Mangy_Dog> though this is my 7d
2019-05-12T18:49:11 < Mangy_Dog> mk1
2019-05-12T18:49:24 < Mangy_Dog> 100w lamps?
2019-05-12T18:49:31 < jadew> 60
2019-05-12T18:49:39 < Mangy_Dog> yeah prolly isnt enough
2019-05-12T18:49:57 < Mangy_Dog> like i say i really struggled unless i really heavily over light my subject
2019-05-12T18:50:30 < jadew> so... it needs high shutter speed for clear pictures?
2019-05-12T18:51:00 < jadew> "shutter"
2019-05-12T18:51:17 < Mangy_Dog> shutter speed is how you get your motion blur control
2019-05-12T18:51:37 < Mangy_Dog> high speeds will make a sharper image in a way... but reduced how much light is captured for a shot
2019-05-12T18:51:53 < jadew> yeah, I'm wondering why light would affect the sharpness
2019-05-12T18:52:01 < Mangy_Dog> well too much light can bloom
2019-05-12T18:52:12 < Mangy_Dog> so higher shutter reduces bloom
2019-05-12T18:52:19 < Mangy_Dog> but also can trigger stroby movment
2019-05-12T18:52:20 < jadew> because in order to get the same exposure, you have to either lower the shutter speed or decrease the diafragm opening
2019-05-12T18:52:47 < Mangy_Dog> my sweet spot is 50 for 25fpx footage as i like the medium motion blur
2019-05-12T18:53:17 < Mangy_Dog> well actually no
2019-05-12T18:53:30 < Mangy_Dog> its a ballence between fstop and iso sensitivity
2019-05-12T18:53:40 < Mangy_Dog> but fstop is where you also get your boque
2019-05-12T18:53:41 < jadew> that too, but I already had that on 100
2019-05-12T18:53:44 < Mangy_Dog> gah spelling
2019-05-12T18:53:51 < jadew> I wasn't considering changing it
2019-05-12T18:54:02 < Mangy_Dog> yeah keep your iso as low as you can safely go
2019-05-12T18:54:06 < Mangy_Dog> it wont effect sharpness 
2019-05-12T18:54:16 < Mangy_Dog> but the higher the iso the more noisy the footage becomes
2019-05-12T18:54:20 < jadew> I know
2019-05-12T18:54:31 < Mangy_Dog> have you tried magic lantern?
2019-05-12T18:54:37 < jadew> no, what's that?
2019-05-12T18:54:48 < Mangy_Dog> its a adhoc firmware for filming on canon cameras
2019-05-12T18:55:16 < Mangy_Dog> they say its no rosk to the camera... but strangely my power board and auto focus died while i was using it so..... i think theres some risks
2019-05-12T18:55:18 < jadew> didn't know about it, I'll look into it
2019-05-12T18:55:20 < jadew> sounds interesting
2019-05-12T18:55:24 < Mangy_Dog> well its fantstic
2019-05-12T18:55:30 < Mangy_Dog> if you can get it working right
2019-05-12T18:55:34 < Mangy_Dog> tons of settings to tweak
2019-05-12T18:55:44 < Mangy_Dog> i could get 2k off my 7d pretty nicely
2019-05-12T18:56:42 < jadew> watching some videos about it now
2019-05-12T18:56:46 < jadew> thanks for telling me about it
2019-05-12T18:58:08 < jadew> jeez, sounds awesome
2019-05-12T19:06:20 < Mangy_Dog> yeah its pretty impressive
2019-05-12T19:06:43 < Mangy_Dog> it wont make youre camera into a 4k work horse but it expands the featuers and improoves where canon stock firmware lacks some
2019-05-12T19:20:19 < kakimir> is someone talking about magiclattern?
2019-05-12T19:20:30 < dongs> magicdongs
2019-05-12T19:21:05 < kakimir> howe is business dong`?
2019-05-12T19:22:47 < kakimir> dongsie
2019-05-12T19:24:56 < Steffanx> Hows the potbox kakimir ?
2019-05-12T19:28:36 < kakimir> it's good to have dreams
2019-05-12T19:29:15 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-05-12T19:29:19 < Steffanx> Midi dreams
2019-05-12T19:40:06 < kakimir> why would you want debugging session while you use potbox?
2019-05-12T19:50:28 < Steffanx> Why would you want to break it? ;)
2019-05-12T19:51:30 < Steffanx> Debug stuff, reflash, restart whatever you do in your normal workflow
2019-05-12T19:51:43 < Steffanx> I wouldnt want to break that workflow
2019-05-12T19:52:15 < Steffanx> But one could probably do it all in a (python) gdb extension
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2019-05-12T19:55:11 < kakimir> is there C GDB extensions?
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2019-05-12T19:58:29 < mawk> my superglue tube exploded in my hand
2019-05-12T19:58:34 < mawk> I almost had my hand glued closed
2019-05-12T19:58:45 < mawk> I had the reflex to open it wide, then a second after it solidified
2019-05-12T19:58:54 < mawk> I tried dissolving it in a bunch of acetone but it doesn't work well
2019-05-12T19:58:55 < Steffanx> Oh, didnt you do that as a kid?
2019-05-12T19:58:58 < mawk> I'll just wait til it comes off
2019-05-12T19:59:10 < mawk> no
2019-05-12T19:59:13 < Steffanx> I did. I never succeeded.
2019-05-12T19:59:16 < mawk> I had some in my mouth as a kid tho
2019-05-12T19:59:33 < Steffanx> You'll just pull it of your skin
2019-05-12T19:59:42 < mawk> the skin comes with it
2019-05-12T19:59:47 < Steffanx> Nah
2019-05-12T19:59:52 < mawk> yes I tried
2019-05-12T20:00:01 < Steffanx> I never did that
2019-05-12T20:00:18 < mawk> it's baby skin under it, bright and hurtful
2019-05-12T20:00:20 < Steffanx> Python it is kakimir :(
2019-05-12T20:00:21 < mawk> if I peel it off
2019-05-12T20:00:25 < Steffanx> :)
2019-05-12T20:01:41 < Steffanx> I guess my skin is super glue proof.
2019-05-12T20:03:29 < Steffanx> kakimir doesnt like python?
2019-05-12T20:04:56 < kakimir> import kitchensink
2019-05-12T20:05:35 < kakimir> import proper_syntax
2019-05-12T20:05:40 < Steffanx> Is that how youll call the extension. Im in :)
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2019-05-12T20:20:19 < Steffanx> kakimir wouldnt want his usual gdb debug session at the same time?
2019-05-12T20:22:51 < kakimir> I would say my code doesn't need debugging
2019-05-12T20:22:54 < kakimir> but tuning
2019-05-12T20:23:29 < Steffanx> what if you want to simulate a temperature and debug your control loop etc.?
2019-05-12T20:24:45 < Steffanx> perhaps its also a solution looking for a problem case :P
2019-05-12T20:27:20 < kakimir> what would I want to debug that cannot be examined with variables read from target?
2019-05-12T20:28:18 < Steffanx> you only print debug?
2019-05-12T20:32:07 < kakimir> I don't understand
2019-05-12T20:32:36 < Steffanx> i just wouldnt like it to switch all the time to debug/reflash or wathever just because you happen to have something else use the debug interface
2019-05-12T20:34:18 < Steffanx> " I want to debug that cannot be examined with variables read from target?"  => sounds like the debug printf way 
2019-05-12T20:36:32 < Steffanx> unless you plan to add all this functionality back to your application over the MI ofcourse
2019-05-12T20:42:31 < Steffanx> and unless you really dont care about debugging/reflashing and want switch between your potbox and a debug session then it all doesnt matter.
2019-05-12T20:49:26 < Mangy_Dog> anyone here know the PJ311d switching audio jack socket? Need some help figuring out what pins to wire my speaker amp to and what to use to input audio to.... Want it so, when a jack is plugged in audio goes to headphones, when unplugged audio routes to speakers
2019-05-12T20:52:30 < Steffanx> we should have to have the same goal kakimir :P
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2019-05-12T21:30:10 < qyx> [138479.007193] hid-generic 0003:058F:6364.000C: hiddev0,hidraw4: USB HID v1.10 Device [Generic Mass Storage Device] on usb-0000:02:00.0-1.3/input1
2019-05-12T21:30:13 < qyx> wtf is that
2019-05-12T21:33:28 < Steffanx> Its supposed to be your keyboard?
2019-05-12T21:36:07 < qyx> no, card reader
2019-05-12T21:38:02 < Mangy_Dog> finished the retro handheld schematic https://i.imgur.com/M9R4B3O.gif
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2019-05-12T21:45:56 < Steffanx> Mangy_Dog does not use a 100nF for each VDD pin?
2019-05-12T21:47:22 < kakimir> Steffanx: when you are tuning something it implies that shit doesn't need debugging at that point
2019-05-12T21:47:30 < kakimir> should not need*
2019-05-12T21:47:39 < kakimir> or reflashing or anything
2019-05-12T21:47:56 < Steffanx> but something like that can be used for more than parameters that could be tuned.
2019-05-12T21:48:36 < kakimir> when you tune your guitar you don't suddenly rebuild your guitar while tuning it
2019-05-12T21:50:12 < Steffanx> I would rebuild if it turns out that the guitar cannot be properly tuned because it has "bug" :P
2019-05-12T21:50:22 < Steffanx> *has a
2019-05-12T21:52:49 < Steffanx> but yeah, if you only want it for tuning and not for other purpuses then you could get away with it.
2019-05-12T21:56:30 < kakimir> what other purposes it would have than tuning?
2019-05-12T21:57:26 < kakimir> I think nice solution would be that gdb server kicks the tuning software out when you try to use it for debugging
2019-05-12T22:05:27 < Steffanx> Anything that you perhaps want to play around with, also during debugging. PWM value, servo position whatever.
2019-05-12T22:06:10 < Steffanx> *duty cycle
2019-05-12T22:08:07 < kakimir> that sounds a bit like feature creep
2019-05-12T22:08:25 < kakimir> how about just GDB/MI passthrough
2019-05-12T22:09:28 < kakimir> mask the communication that is not relevant for what comes after it
2019-05-12T22:09:42 < kakimir> when halt it stops fiddling with them variables
2019-05-12T22:09:45 < kakimir> maybe
2019-05-12T22:10:32 < Steffanx> not feature creep, different goals/intentions i guess kakimir
2019-05-12T22:10:52 < Steffanx> both involve changing variables on the target
2019-05-12T22:11:19 < Steffanx> but you want it during development, i dont
2019-05-12T22:11:26 < Steffanx> i mean, the otherway around lol
2019-05-12T22:13:13 < kakimir> I want it during development
2019-05-12T22:13:17 < kakimir> not in operation
2019-05-12T22:13:29 < kakimir> but code should be quite stabile by then
2019-05-12T22:14:41 < Steffanx> yeah, thats what i meant
2019-05-12T22:14:56 < Steffanx> *while coding/debugging
2019-05-12T22:14:58 < kakimir> hmm I see your point
2019-05-12T22:15:21 < kakimir> there was a phase when code was still shit and I was already tuning it and refactoring it
2019-05-12T22:15:29 < kakimir> and trying stuff
2019-05-12T22:15:41 < Steffanx> i like to do that too, sometimes
2019-05-12T22:15:44 < kakimir> eclipse plugin!
2019-05-12T22:15:49 < kakimir> boi
2019-05-12T22:15:57 < Steffanx> id like ozone plugin, but .. i dont see a way to do that
2019-05-12T22:16:09 < Steffanx> also non-portable
2019-05-12T22:16:24 < kakimir> java.. I have never touched that stuff
2019-05-12T22:16:48 < Steffanx> Segger ozone does some javascript interface, but no clue how it works
2019-05-12T22:19:28 < Steffanx> the "potbox" interface shouldnt matter anyway, midi, uart .. it's all just potdata :P
2019-05-12T22:20:51 < kakimir> ye
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2019-05-12T22:38:58 < kakimir> virtual knobs even
2019-05-12T22:39:18 < Steffanx> kyllä
2019-05-12T22:39:21 < kakimir> shouldn't matter
2019-05-12T22:59:09 < kakimir> is there any nice enclosures with TFT display and places for potentiometers, buttons, rot encoders?
2019-05-12T22:59:44 < kakimir> TFT display should be at least like 2-3inches
2019-05-12T23:13:33 < Laurenceb_> https://imgoat.com/uploads/a46c1b9512/213271.png
2019-05-12T23:17:32 < Steffanx> sounds like dj gear kakimir :P
2019-05-12T23:17:49 < Steffanx> Hello Laurenceb_. What have you been up to lately?
2019-05-12T23:22:33 < kakimir> dj lurencer
2019-05-12T23:28:43 < Laurenceb_> Steffanx: Last night I went to a sex club
2019-05-12T23:28:53 < Laurenceb_> there were some germans
2019-05-12T23:31:35 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2019-05-12T23:32:55 < Steffanx> Awesome.
2019-05-12T23:48:26 < BrainDamage> congratulations, did you quit your wizardry endeavours despite your harry potter appearance?
2019-05-12T23:49:29 < Steffanx> Instead of irc pumping he went to the gym to pump.
2019-05-12T23:53:14 < Laurenceb_> some weird guy from Birmingham was talking to be about whips 
2019-05-12T23:53:36 < Laurenceb_> it was all too weird so I left
2019-05-12T23:55:53 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@94.9.227.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
--- Day changed Mon May 13 2019
2019-05-13T00:03:39 < catphish> this design seems to burn power just for fun https://imgur.com/a/fMNKqw7
2019-05-13T00:05:11 < catphish> there are 8 of those, so 0.2W just warming the pcb for no reason
2019-05-13T00:07:53 < Cracki> A(31:0)... a bus... with 1k pullups?
2019-05-13T00:07:56 < Cracki> what is this?
2019-05-13T00:08:37 < Cracki> that's 160 mA
2019-05-13T00:09:08 < Cracki> who did this? what does the rest of it do?
2019-05-13T00:09:34 < catphish> correct, a bus with 1k pullups
2019-05-13T00:09:48 < Cracki> hell
2019-05-13T00:09:54 < catphish> it's an amiga https://www.amigawiki.org/dnl/schematics/A3000.pdf
2019-05-13T00:10:03 < catphish> first page
2019-05-13T00:10:37 < Cracki> are they trying to surpass i2c?
2019-05-13T00:11:01 < catphish> i guess this is just how a 68k is used
2019-05-13T00:11:15 < catphish> i'm just learning about them, thinking of building an amiga
2019-05-13T00:12:15 < catphish> i was fixing one, but there's some pretty irrepribable damage to the motherboard, and failed components i can't track down, so now thinking of building a new one, so just reading over the schematics
2019-05-13T00:12:24 < catphish> if nothing else, it's interesting
2019-05-13T00:13:09 < mawk> I tried soldering using hot air and paste
2019-05-13T00:13:16 < mawk> it's almost perfect, just three unconnected pads
2019-05-13T00:13:36 < Cracki> hot plate ftw
2019-05-13T00:13:56 < catphish> my hot plate works really well
2019-05-13T00:14:03 < mawk> but I don't know when to stop when the pads are under the chip
2019-05-13T00:14:06 < mawk> when do I know it's done ?
2019-05-13T00:14:27 < catphish> my experience, ICs are indestructible, just overcook it
2019-05-13T00:14:46 < catphish> (for prototyping obviously)
2019-05-13T00:14:55 < mawk> yes
2019-05-13T00:15:00 < mawk> as long as it's a blank chip
2019-05-13T00:15:03 < mawk> otherwise it erases flash
2019-05-13T00:15:15 < catphish> didn't know that, i've only ever done blank ones
2019-05-13T00:15:38 < mawk> I guess it's just for safety when working with ssd and stuff
2019-05-13T00:15:44 < mawk> don't overheat the flash chips
2019-05-13T00:16:44 < catphish> well in theory you shouldn't overheat anything, but my experience seems to be that if you wait until everything visible is melted, then give it another 10 seconds for good luck
2019-05-13T00:17:16 < mawk> I see
2019-05-13T00:17:49 < catphish> however... i have a very very bad record for QFNs, i always use too much paste and they end up floating :(
2019-05-13T00:17:59 < catphish> so maybe listen to nothing i say
2019-05-13T00:18:43 < catphish> moral of the story: don't trust kicad's qfn with centre pad, delete most of the centre pad
2019-05-13T00:19:13 < mawk> lol
2019-05-13T00:19:22 < mawk> I just put a big bunch of paste and it worked
2019-05-13T00:19:29 < mawk> too little didn't make connections
2019-05-13T00:19:36 < mawk> I wonder where all that matter goes
2019-05-13T00:19:42 < mawk> it just makes little solder balls in the end
2019-05-13T00:19:53 < BrainDamage> most of the paste is flux
2019-05-13T00:20:01 < mawk> ah nice
2019-05-13T00:20:02 < BrainDamage> the actual solder is small balls in suspension
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2019-05-13T00:33:40 < qyx> qfns are great
2019-05-13T00:34:07 < qyx> just tin the pads, add flux and hotair it
2019-05-13T00:34:33 < qyx> when it floats, you can poke it with tweezers
2019-05-13T00:34:48 < qyx> it should align itself back
2019-05-13T00:35:06 < mawk> not with paste ?
2019-05-13T00:35:49 < qyx> I am doing them withhout it
2019-05-13T00:37:11 < qyx> I mean tin pads on the pcb only
2019-05-13T00:47:49 < catphish> the last board i did, i didnt bother with a stencil, i just drag soldered, realised it was misaligned then hot plated to align
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2019-05-13T01:16:10 < Laurenceb_> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45824.1020
2019-05-13T01:16:15 < Laurenceb_> they are still at it
2019-05-13T01:18:36 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@2a01:e35:8b76:a0f0:d82c:7b40:43eb:96af] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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2019-05-13T01:43:54 -!- veegee_ is now known as veegee
2019-05-13T01:45:39 < catphish> do many people use dram with stm32?
2019-05-13T01:57:48 < catphish> looks like it should be quite possible, and really a better option than flash for temporary storage :)
2019-05-13T02:15:17 < zyp> uh, I'd say dram and flash has quite different usecases, they don't have much overlap in feature set
2019-05-13T02:20:52 < zyp> I mean, consider a normal computer, you'd want to have both plenty of ram and a decently sized ssd, one is not a very good replacement for the other
2019-05-13T02:21:38 < mawk> but you usually have more flash than SRAM he means I think
2019-05-13T02:21:41 < zyp> of course, both ramdisks and swap exists, so they can to some degree fill in for each other
2019-05-13T02:21:47 < mawk> so people store large things on flash maybe
2019-05-13T02:23:22 < mawk> I need to put a stm32 in the hot air station, I wouldn't know how to program the existing mcu
2019-05-13T02:23:25 < zyp> that still holds true in my analogy, ssds are cheaper than ram sticks
2019-05-13T02:23:27 < mawk> and it's 8 bit Z80 style thing anyway
2019-05-13T02:23:34 < zyp> (per capacity)
2019-05-13T02:24:12 < mawk> so I need to have some board sized like DIP-20 to put in place of it
2019-05-13T02:25:13 < zyp> if you have large datasets to do lookups in, it becomes a question of access time vs cost of storing the dataset
2019-05-13T02:25:21 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-13T02:26:12 < zyp> e.g. chess tablebases
2019-05-13T02:26:22 < zyp> «The 7-piece tablebase contains 423,836,835,667,331 unique legal positions in about 18 Terabytes.»
2019-05-13T02:26:49 < zyp> you wouldn't store that in ram, and probably not on ssds either, but on spinning rust it becomes feasible
2019-05-13T02:27:32 < zyp> though, tradeoffs like that on embedded seems a bit weird
2019-05-13T02:28:49 < zyp> I'm guessing lookup speeds in the internal NOR flash is fairly comparable to external DRAM
2019-05-13T02:28:59 < mawk> especially with slow cpus yes
2019-05-13T02:29:05 < zyp> probably comparable to external NOR flash too
2019-05-13T02:29:45 < catphish> zyp: i'm thinking about temporary storage in an stm32 that exceeds the reasonable capacity of the SRAM
2019-05-13T02:30:16 < catphish> with fairly low speed and write lifetime requirements
2019-05-13T02:30:22 < zyp> what's «reasonable» to you?
2019-05-13T02:31:09 < catphish> well high end stm32's have a couple of hundred KB iirc, i want about 8MB
2019-05-13T02:31:36 < zyp> what stm32 has 8MB internal flash? :)
2019-05-13T02:31:46 < mawk> I have a H7 with like 2 MiB
2019-05-13T02:32:02 < mawk> or 1 maybe, I'm being too generous
2019-05-13T02:32:22 < catphish> zyp: do any of them?
2019-05-13T02:32:35 < zyp> not as far as I know, largest I've used is 2M
2019-05-13T02:32:37 < mawk> if my hot air station starts to fail (the screen) after like 10 minutes of running it must certainly be a thermal issue ? I don't see anything else that could cause this
2019-05-13T02:32:58 < mawk> I thought I've found the culprit with a unscrewed mosfet to its radiator but even after putting thermal paste and screwing tight it continues
2019-05-13T02:33:11 < catphish> right, so that's why i'm comparing the options of external flash or external dram
2019-05-13T02:33:11 < mawk> if it's the program itself I can replace it, but it doesn't sound very software issue
2019-05-13T02:33:42 < zyp> so anyway, if you need something like 8M, but speed is not a huge concern, I'd consider something like this: https://www.sramsun.com/list-354-1.html
2019-05-13T02:34:13 < zyp> routing parallel memory buses are annoying, so I'd avoid it if possible :)
2019-05-13T02:34:40 < mawk> ah you need like constant length
2019-05-13T02:34:42 < catphish> i was considering this for audio recording, so 88KB/s for a couple of minutes
2019-05-13T02:35:00 < catphish> iirc SPI SRAM is insanely expensive
2019-05-13T02:35:23 < mawk> isn't spi like slow ? why are we using this for ram ?
2019-05-13T02:35:36 < zyp> mawk, nah, SDR is not very picky about length matching
2019-05-13T02:35:54 < catphish> oh, it's fake sram
2019-05-13T02:36:02 < mawk> sdram
2019-05-13T02:36:02 < zyp> it's just that you end up with like 8 or 16 data lines and a ton of address lines, so there's a lot of signals to take care of
2019-05-13T02:36:08 < mawk> ah, I see
2019-05-13T02:36:31 < catphish> yeah dram looked complicated, but cheap and high capaciy
2019-05-13T02:36:36 < catphish> hence my asking
2019-05-13T02:37:16 < catphish> wonder how much 8MB of that costs (IPS6404LSQ)
2019-05-13T02:38:01 < mawk> it's too fast for usb ?
2019-05-13T02:38:05 < catphish> "pseudo" sram with self refreshing dram would be perfect for me
2019-05-13T02:38:05 < mawk> even if you get a HS mcu ?
2019-05-13T02:38:12 < mawk> yes you don't have refresh circuits to do
2019-05-13T02:39:05 < dongs> catphish: MT45W8MW16 is arond $8/ea
2019-05-13T02:39:23 < catphish> well the other options are DRAM, which means 16 data lines, 10 address lines, 4 control lines, and some refresh hassle
2019-05-13T02:39:36 < catphish> but only about $1 for 16MB
2019-05-13T02:40:34 < zyp> I routed a board for somebody last year with a parallel memory bus (hooking up to both flash and ram), all the traces eats routing area pretty quickly: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/CQJ8j.png
2019-05-13T02:41:34 < dongs> also stm32 pin mapping is retarded for sdram/fsmc
2019-05-13T02:41:37 < dongs> shit's all over the place
2019-05-13T02:41:44 < dongs> well, especially for sdram
2019-05-13T02:42:10 < zyp> I think this was plain sram, but I'm not sure
2019-05-13T02:42:17 < zyp> I didn't do schematic, just layout
2019-05-13T02:43:03 < catphish> does any stm32 have hardware dram control?
2019-05-13T02:43:07 < zyp> yes
2019-05-13T02:43:13 < dongs> sdram? yes
2019-05-13T02:43:14 < zyp> f42x does
2019-05-13T02:43:15 < catphish> well that helps
2019-05-13T02:43:31 < catphish> i thought i'd have to do it manually
2019-05-13T02:43:53 < zyp> haha, fuck that
2019-05-13T02:44:07 < dongs> only the highest of autists refresh their own sdram
2019-05-13T02:44:09 < dongs> on an arduino
2019-05-13T02:44:29 < mawk> why do you have to refresh sdram if it's supposed to be self refreshing
2019-05-13T02:44:48 < dongs> its not self refreshing
2019-05-13T02:44:51 < catphish> it's not
2019-05-13T02:45:03 < catphish> that's kinda the problem with dram
2019-05-13T02:45:20 < mawk> ah yes I mistake it for pseudo SRAM
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2019-05-13T02:45:26 < dongs> https://dmitry.gr/?r=05.Projects&proj=07.%20Linux%20on%208bit this crazy nigger
2019-05-13T02:45:35 < catphish> afaik sdram is just dram where you provide a clock
2019-05-13T02:45:36 < dongs> psram is just parallel sram-like interface which internally refreshes
2019-05-13T02:45:49 < catphish> psram looks cool but expensive
2019-05-13T02:46:03 < dongs> like i said, the discontinued MT45W8MW16 is available in china for around 8 bucks.
2019-05-13T02:46:15 < zyp> dongs, any idea what that spi psram I linked would cost?
2019-05-13T02:46:17 < dongs> i think most of the shit is discontinued now as even shitty MCUs have sdram
2019-05-13T02:46:19 < catphish> what does stm32 call its dram interface?
2019-05-13T02:46:28 < dongs> what was the name? the IPS64 thing?
2019-05-13T02:46:30 < zyp> catphish, FMC
2019-05-13T02:46:39 < zyp> dongs, this shit: https://www.sramsun.com/list-354-1.html
2019-05-13T02:46:57 < dongs> is that a chink site
2019-05-13T02:47:01 < dongs> looks slow as shit
2019-05-13T02:47:07 < dongs> still loading
2019-05-13T02:47:17 < zyp> yeah, very china
2019-05-13T02:47:45 < mawk> sramsun
2019-05-13T02:47:51 < mawk> it looks like a counterfeit name of samsung
2019-05-13T02:48:27 < dongs> wtf man its STILL LOADING
2019-05-13T02:48:38 < mawk> refresh
2019-05-13T02:48:41 < dongs> how big is that LIST
2019-05-13T02:49:08 < zyp> for a 8MB buffer that won't need to be accessed quickly, that part looks convenient
2019-05-13T02:49:51 < mawk> dongs: https://serveur.io/SPI%20pSRAM%20-%20SRAM%20memeory_SRAM%20chip_MRAM_PSRAM_everspin_netsol_JSC%E2%80%94Ramsun%20Micro-electronincs.html
2019-05-13T02:49:58 < mawk> I copied the html for you I'm very nice
2019-05-13T02:50:25 < dongs> ya it loaded eventually. lul IoT RAM
2019-05-13T02:50:52 < dongs> zyp, queued to chinagirl
2019-05-13T02:50:56 < zyp> nice
2019-05-13T02:51:05 < mawk> you've got a girl you're with to source parts ?
2019-05-13T02:51:56 < zyp> not sure I'd ever need anything like that, but I figure even if dram is cheaper, a simple spi part is a lot easier to route, saving both time and board space
2019-05-13T02:54:50 < catphish> wow, yeah, the stm32 required to do sdram is HUGE
2019-05-13T02:55:04 < mawk> do it manually like a hacker
2019-05-13T02:55:33 < zyp> catphish, the 100pin doesn't have all the FMC signals available?
2019-05-13T02:55:58 < catphish> zyp: i coulnd't find a 100 pin with claims of sdram support in the fmc, so i guess not
2019-05-13T02:56:36 < catphish> i could do it manually, but it's still at least 16+10+4 GPIOs
2019-05-13T02:56:59 < catphish> and a lot of hassle
2019-05-13T02:57:32 < catphish> dongs: those psrams are sexy, but a lot more expensive
2019-05-13T02:57:54 < catphish> which kinda leads me back to using flash as RAM :(
2019-05-13T02:58:13 < catphish> which is really completely retarded
2019-05-13T02:58:28 < englishman> just put a raspberreypi in the BOM like you want to and stop fucking around
2019-05-13T02:58:51 < catphish> eww
2019-05-13T02:59:36 < catphish> although an orangepi comes with half a gig of ram and costs less then some of these options
2019-05-13T02:59:39 < catphish> :|
2019-05-13T03:00:08 < zyp> orangepi is made in a larger volume than your shit too :)
2019-05-13T03:00:25 < catphish> it sure is
2019-05-13T03:01:54 < catphish> someone asked the same question as me in a forum and the answer was https://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69&product_id=132
2019-05-13T03:02:12 < catphish> also h3 :)
2019-05-13T03:02:36 < catphish> "If you really want a serial RAM to retrofit on an existing board, the irony of modern ultra-mass-production is that it would probably be cheaper to stick the above ARM SBC with a little bit of code on it to emulate a serial RAM than to purchase the dedicated hardware device (if it even exists). And while you're at it, replace the existing micro with it..."
2019-05-13T03:07:37 < dongs> haha
2019-05-13T03:07:52 < dongs> yea but then you'd have to use lunix
2019-05-13T03:09:23 < Laurenceb_> >With the technology now maturing, it is time for EmDrive to come out of the shadows
2019-05-13T03:09:34 < dongs> sup spammerB
2019-05-13T03:09:34 < Laurenceb_> >embedded lunix >evar
2019-05-13T03:09:49 < Laurenceb_> are you excited for the future of emdrive?
2019-05-13T03:09:59 < zyp> how about no
2019-05-13T03:10:07 < Laurenceb_> http://www.emdrive.com/shrivenhampresentation2019.pdf
2019-05-13T03:12:02 < Laurenceb_> zyp: Understand your frustration, which I share. Building EmDrives is not simple, easy, quick nor low cost no matter what the approach. I was wrong to believe it could be done. Please accept my apology for not delivering what I tried to achieve. Current plans are to demo the commercial thruster we are working on once we have orbital test data and have done a commercial release.
2019-05-13T03:12:37 < zyp> pls stop hilighting me with bullshit
2019-05-13T03:17:40 < catphish> do 5v tolerant GPIOs stop being 5v tolerant if you connect them to an ADC?
2019-05-13T03:17:59 < rajkosto> the ADC gpios arent 5v tolerant at all
2019-05-13T03:18:25 < catphish> oh ok, moot point then :)
2019-05-13T03:31:01 < zyp> I don't believe that's necessarily correct
2019-05-13T03:31:19 < mawk> I thought ADC was 5V tolerant on some stm32
2019-05-13T03:31:32 < zyp> I believe some parts actually have ADC-capable pins that are 5V tolerant as long as the ADC is not sampling them
2019-05-13T03:31:42 < mawk> yes that is sure
2019-05-13T03:32:15 < zyp> so yes, they stop being 5V tolerant when you enable the ADC and select them
2019-05-13T03:32:27 < dongs> uh
2019-05-13T03:32:34 < dongs> none of adc-capable pins are 5v tolerant iirc?
2019-05-13T03:32:37 < dongs> they're all TTa
2019-05-13T03:32:47 < zyp> as I said, depends on the part
2019-05-13T03:33:46 < dongs> does it?
2019-05-13T03:33:57 < dongs> do you recall a part with FT on adc pins?
2019-05-13T03:34:26 < dongs> ah i see there's some
2019-05-13T03:34:29 < dongs> random F4 i pulled has it
2019-05-13T03:34:31 < zyp> yes, I'm looking at L052 datasheet now
2019-05-13T03:34:38 < zyp> almost all pins are FT
2019-05-13T03:34:45 < zyp> except oscillator pins
2019-05-13T03:34:59 < dongs> with a memo FT = 5 V tolerant except when in analog mode or oscillator mode (for PC14, PC15, PH0 and PH1).
2019-05-13T03:35:33 < mawk> during startup pins are in which mode ?
2019-05-13T03:35:36 < mawk> by default
2019-05-13T03:35:40 < mawk> isn't it analog ?
2019-05-13T03:35:49 < mawk> to reduce power consumption
2019-05-13T03:35:49 < zyp> no, but that doesn't matter
2019-05-13T03:36:18 < zyp> the pin mode doesn't connect/disconnect the ADC, you can sample the pin with the ADC in any mode
2019-05-13T03:36:28 < zyp> analog mode just turns off the digital buffers to reduce noise
2019-05-13T03:36:45 < mawk> ah right
2019-05-13T03:38:58 < zyp> hmm, I can't see the note about no 5V to ADCs in L052 datasheet
2019-05-13T03:40:28 < zyp> «Conversion voltage range: 0 .. VDDA», but that doesn't imply it's harmful to give it more, just that it will saturate
2019-05-13T03:43:11 < mawk> that is what I had in mind yes
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2019-05-13T03:52:33 < catphish> it's ok, i'll just use a 3.3v RRIO opamp buffer and not worry
2019-05-13T03:57:06 < catphish> sleep time now
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2019-05-13T04:00:28 < bitmask> good night to deliver, I made $30 in 1.5 hours and my gf made $60 in 2.5 hrs
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2019-05-13T07:47:27 < R2COM> goddamnig how to disable win10's email notifications
2019-05-13T07:47:36 < R2COM> in the middle of gaming popped up in wrong place  blocking some shit
2019-05-13T07:47:42 < R2COM> dongs fuck your win10
2019-05-13T07:48:59 < R2COM> done
2019-05-13T07:49:00 < R2COM> jeez
2019-05-13T07:49:03 < R2COM> fucked stuff
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2019-05-13T08:16:17 < qyx> where is captish with his huge RAM requirement
2019-05-13T08:16:28 < qyx> he should try hyperbus DRAM
2019-05-13T08:16:34 < qyx> I want to know how it works
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2019-05-13T08:33:09 < aandrew> I gotta see if htere's a way to prevent win10 from rebooting to force updates
2019-05-13T08:33:41 < aandrew> this kind of idiot shit is the reason I have my win7 vms and it's gonna take an act of god to dump them
2019-05-13T08:47:15 < Thorn> wtf https://twitter.com/enginetankard/status/1127639649956945920
2019-05-13T08:47:59 < Thorn> 1 core, 0 prepregs, 3 copper layers?
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2019-05-13T12:25:47 < Cracki> what are they isolating those copper layers with, solder mask?
2019-05-13T12:26:06 < Cracki> or did someone come up with transparent prepregs
2019-05-13T12:26:30 < jly> hi there
2019-05-13T12:26:45 < Cracki> or it's "prepreg" without the fiber
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2019-05-13T13:10:10 < englishman> Thorn: neato
2019-05-13T14:10:40 < qyx> so studying various NFC tags, it seems that on a tag there is usually a single NDEF file with multiple records
2019-05-13T14:11:04 < qyx> so you have to work with it manually (like appending records)
2019-05-13T14:11:33 < qyx> somehow I hoped that I could store multiple NDEF messages on a tag
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2019-05-13T14:30:22 < zyp> qyx, what's your goal?
2019-05-13T14:41:33 < qyx> I am investigating a similar application as captish
2019-05-13T14:41:38 < qyx> or catphish
2019-05-13T14:42:26 < qyx> ie. a point in a wild with position, time and private key (in atecc608 or similar)
2019-05-13T14:43:24 < qyx> when a tag/card is approached, it validates it's content, creates a signed position&time data and appends it to the card/tag
2019-05-13T14:44:27 < qyx> then you can read it with a nfc phone and prove your whereabouts at a given time
2019-05-13T14:45:26 < qyx> also, a firmware update can be stored on the card (diff or so) and the device can update itself if it sees a signed update file on a card
2019-05-13T14:46:48 < qyx> in other words, the device is offline, people can hit it with a card, the device appends time/position data and sends/receive other data (such as logs, updates)
2019-05-13T14:52:57 < Cracki> so geocaching
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2019-05-13T15:00:14 < zyp> qyx, ah
2019-05-13T15:00:22 < zyp> why NDEF, not just raw storage?
2019-05-13T15:00:55 < qyx> because I though it is simpler on android
2019-05-13T15:03:58 < zyp> I'd prefer avoiding having to rewrite records
2019-05-13T15:04:16 < zyp> since you risk leaving the card in a half-rewritten state
2019-05-13T15:12:11 < qyx> not rewriting, just appending
2019-05-13T15:12:19 < qyx> rewriting is ~harder
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2019-05-13T17:07:11 < aandrew> fuck it, just spent the CAD$130 to upgrade win10 home to pro
2019-05-13T17:07:13 < aandrew> enough fucking around
2019-05-13T17:07:41 < dongs> what, why the fuck would you do that
2019-05-13T17:07:47 < dongs> win10pro licenses are $5 on ebay
2019-05-13T17:08:02 < dongs> i mean, its your CAD i dont care but
2019-05-13T17:08:11 < dongs> for throwaway shit why wouold you actually pay for it
2019-05-13T17:08:12 < aandrew> no, i'm done fucking around with patching and hacking and dicking around
2019-05-13T17:08:17 < dongs> pacthing or hacking what
2019-05-13T17:08:21 < dongs> there's nothing to hack
2019-05-13T17:08:22 < aandrew> I need rdp
2019-05-13T17:08:26 < dongs> yep, sure
2019-05-13T17:08:35  * dongs has rdp on my $5 win10 license
2019-05-13T17:08:38 < aandrew> rdpwrap worked well enough but I've just spent 2h trying to get it workign again after a forced update
2019-05-13T17:08:45 < aandrew> I don't doubt you have it on your $5 win10 license
2019-05-13T17:09:08 < aandrew> my point is that I don't believe the $5 win10 license will continue to work forever
2019-05-13T17:09:18 < aandrew> and at some point you'll end up having to either get another or dick aroudn in other ways
2019-05-13T17:12:22 < dongs> it does work and it doesn't require any dicking
2019-05-13T17:12:37 < dongs> once you have the digital license in your uefi/bios shit, its done
2019-05-13T17:12:44 < dongs> or you can link it into your shitty msn account or whatever.
2019-05-13T17:12:58 < dongs> (which i never do, which is prolly why i just waste $5 for every new box i isntall)
2019-05-13T17:13:13 < aandrew> hopefully this is the only box I have to pollute with this crap
2019-05-13T17:13:27 < aandrew> maybe a VM as well
2019-05-13T17:13:43 < aandrew> how's your IoT work going btw
2019-05-13T17:14:04 < dongs> still arguing with retards 
2019-05-13T17:14:18 < aandrew> have you decided to put in cloud thermostats and coffee maker controls and toilet flush tweeters 
2019-05-13T17:15:03 < aandrew> lol
2019-05-13T17:15:12 < aandrew> "adding features. don't turn off your computer"
2019-05-13T17:15:28 < aandrew> I guess "infecting all your shit with our pestilence" didn't quite ring as nicely
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2019-05-13T18:03:29 < dongs> ok so hm
2019-05-13T18:03:47 < dongs> im trying to be an asshole and do multi-board design in a single sheet and just array the add-on board
2019-05-13T18:03:53 < dongs> but I dont wanna rename signals and stuff
2019-05-13T18:03:55 < dongs> hmmm
2019-05-13T18:04:02 < dongs> esp vcc/gnd
2019-05-13T18:04:16 < dongs> the only way I can think of making it work is using jumper stuff
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2019-05-13T18:07:26 < dongs> any altidumb pros here with good ideas
2019-05-13T18:24:20 < aandrew> I have not done that before
2019-05-13T18:24:29 < aandrew> I just do one design and then create a panel in altium
2019-05-13T18:24:31 < aandrew> easy peasy
2019-05-13T18:27:20 < dongs> ... no i dont want to make a panel in altium
2019-05-13T18:27:34 < dongs> i saw another fag do that and he has to copypaste gnd /vcc and rename to like gnd2 vcc2 etc
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2019-05-13T19:18:04 < englishman> lol $130 windows wot
2019-05-13T19:19:04 < dongs> ya aandrew screwed that one
2019-05-13T19:19:16 < englishman> typical lunixer
2019-05-13T19:21:31 < Steffanx> Isnt cheapskating the lunix way?
2019-05-13T19:22:08 < englishman> no, it's doing shit wrong then complaining about it
2019-05-13T19:22:59 < Steffanx> aha
2019-05-13T19:24:55 < englishman> What's that? Uber isn't actually worth $82bn?
2019-05-13T19:24:57 < englishman> lol
2019-05-13T19:25:00 < mawk> I'll put STM32F334 into the hot air stuff
2019-05-13T19:30:47 < qyx> enjoy
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2019-05-13T20:14:16 < aandrew> lol my "munitions" grade mcus are here
2019-05-13T20:14:29 < zyp> time to build missiles
2019-05-13T20:14:43 < aandrew> STM32F756 nucleo boards
2019-05-13T20:14:54 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2019-05-13T20:14:54 < aandrew> had to promise and pinky swear I wasn't going to send them to iran
2019-05-13T20:14:54 < zyp> nucleo missiles
2019-05-13T20:15:12 < Mangy_Dog> nucleo wessles
2019-05-13T20:15:20 < Mangy_Dog> ill get my coat!
2019-05-13T20:15:46 < aandrew> nucleo warheads
2019-05-13T20:16:08 < aandrew> I just think it's funny
2019-05-13T20:16:14 < aandrew> we put men on the moon with less compute power than a c64
2019-05-13T20:16:19 < aandrew> yet these MCUs we have to watch out for
2019-05-13T20:16:27 < Mangy_Dog> really no one got my reference?
2019-05-13T20:16:32 < Mangy_Dog> and you lot call yourself geeks
2019-05-13T20:16:44 < aandrew> I don't think any of us do
2019-05-13T20:16:56 < zyp> ITAR is pretty silly about crypto
2019-05-13T20:17:12 < aandrew> oh that's right it's the crypto module that's causing it I think
2019-05-13T20:17:16 < zyp> yes
2019-05-13T20:17:20 < aandrew> mind you the 10M25 FPGAs also were ITAR'd
2019-05-13T20:17:40 < aandrew> I think that's more about protecting iran from shitty bitcoin miners
2019-05-13T20:19:44 < Steffanx> We dont do anime Mangy_Dog
2019-05-13T20:20:01 < Mangy_Dog> nuclear wessles is a meme.... based on startrek 4, when chekov is trying to ask where the nuclear powered air craft carriers are to a beat cop whos looking very bemused....
2019-05-13T20:20:23 < Steffanx> oh memeh.
2019-05-13T20:22:30 < Mangy_Dog> heres some education https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSJFrhb-HM
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2019-05-13T20:31:23 < Steffanx> fuck memes
2019-05-13T20:32:59 < Mangy_Dog> its only a meme by default
2019-05-13T20:33:11 < Mangy_Dog> its just one of those cultural reference things
2019-05-13T20:33:13 < specing> aandrew: really lol?
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2019-05-13T20:33:26 < specing> aandrew: aren't you in the US?
2019-05-13T20:33:34 < specing> where are european mcus export controlled?!
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2019-05-13T20:41:34 < dongs> europe makes mcus?
2019-05-13T20:44:44 < specing> dongs: yes, STM is a eruopean ocmpany...
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2019-05-13T20:48:30 < aandrew> specing: yeah. I'm in canada
2019-05-13T20:53:30 < specing> dongs: not to mention ARM itself... also european
2019-05-13T20:53:42 < specing> and not to mention that USA flew to the moon on german tech
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--- Day changed Tue May 14 2019
2019-05-14T00:00:22 < qyx> my charger failed for the second time
2019-05-14T00:00:50 < qyx> now the fuse is blown, filtering choke survived
2019-05-14T00:01:18 < qyx> I am suspecting the 4V7 TVS diode is the problem
2019-05-14T00:01:45 < qyx> oh actually a zener is populated there
2019-05-14T00:02:14 < qyx> when the temperature rises above ~80°C, the fuse or choke blows
2019-05-14T00:02:25 < qyx> hm probably it has a negative temp coefficient
2019-05-14T00:04:10 < qyx> min working voltage should be 4.61V at 5mA
2019-05-14T00:04:42 < qyx> the worst case temp coeff is -3.5mV/C, which gives about 0.2V
2019-05-14T00:04:57 < qyx> still much above 4.1V
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2019-05-14T00:55:10 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDAWzg0TgVo
2019-05-14T00:55:28 < kakimir> this one is soldering iron for men
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2019-05-14T02:37:17 < Thorn> wtf just happened
2019-05-14T02:38:12  * karlp blinks
2019-05-14T02:38:14 < Thorn> I left my prototype overnight powered from li-ion with new j-link connected, li-ion voltage was ~3.5V
2019-05-14T02:38:25 < Thorn> next morning, the battery is 4.2V
2019-05-14T02:38:49 < aandrew> haha
2019-05-14T02:39:12 < Thorn> I open the j-link, there is a jumper apparently connecting Vt to 3V3
2019-05-14T02:39:15 < Thorn> but how
2019-05-14T02:39:41 < Thorn> li-ion -> protection -> mcp73871 -> tps63000 -> 3V3
2019-05-14T02:40:32 < mawk> qfn is better for heat issues I get it ?
2019-05-14T02:40:36 < mawk> than qfp
2019-05-14T02:40:48 < Thorn> for it to happen, tps63000 must have boosted the voltage in the reverse direction and mcp73871 must have back-charged the battery while powered from its output
2019-05-14T02:40:50 < Thorn> what the fuck
2019-05-14T02:41:59 < Thorn> mawk: if it has a center pad and you connect it to the gnd plane well then yes
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2019-05-14T03:24:54 < Laurenceb_> the demiurge!
2019-05-14T03:25:36 < mawk> who
2019-05-14T03:27:07 < Laurenceb_> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Lion-faced_deity.jpg
2019-05-14T03:27:17 < ds2> anyone tuned/designed a NFC antenna before?
2019-05-14T03:27:47 < mawk> catphish I believe, he's not here atm
2019-05-14T03:29:16 < Laurenceb_> https://imgoat.com/uploads/a46c1b9512/213364.jpg
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2019-05-14T04:09:57 < jadew> Laurenceb_, u into that?
2019-05-14T04:11:20 < jadew> should have used quotes
2019-05-14T04:11:21 < Laurenceb_> lolno, but you are free to donate ur hard earned money
2019-05-14T04:12:23 < Thorn> I *almost* fucked up EXTI on my new board :/
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2019-05-14T04:27:04 < Thorn> why 0Ω resistors on D+/D- lines in discovery boards?
2019-05-14T04:27:26 < Thorn> almost like they're not sure if 22Ω are required or not for their own MCUs
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2019-05-14T05:17:17 < dongs> zyp, IPS6404L-SQ-SPN is aroiund $1
2019-05-14T05:17:38 < dongs> thats the available oen
2019-05-14T05:17:45 < dongs> http://ipusltd.com/Products_en.html < actual mfg
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2019-05-14T05:20:57 < dongs> thats actually kinda cheap...
2019-05-14T05:21:24 < dongs> you can realize your dream of having 8megs of ram on a retarduino..
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2019-05-14T06:19:51 < jadew> how do I make money from youtube?
2019-05-14T06:20:14 < jadew> just finished editing a video and I kinda like it
2019-05-14T06:20:35 < jadew> it's easy, so I can see the appeal if there's money in it
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2019-05-14T06:49:24 < dongs> 1) > 1000 subscriber
2019-05-14T06:49:31 < dongs> 2) > 10k monthly views
2019-05-14T06:49:39 < dongs> i think thats the prereq for monetizastion enable
2019-05-14T06:53:54 < jadew> now all I have to do is develop a skill noone else has and show off in front of the camera
2019-05-14T06:54:17 < dongs> autofellatio should be unique enough
2019-05-14T06:54:23 < jadew> hah
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2019-05-14T07:17:08 < bitmask> oysters, clams, and cockles!
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2019-05-14T09:05:03 < dongs> https://pcbshopper.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/PCBnet.gif
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2019-05-14T11:02:01 < Cracki> re: yt, unique content works (delicatessen), thottery (bread and butter) works too, funny commentary works very well
2019-05-14T11:03:05 < Cracki> good pacing and preparation/editing is helpful. the opposite is slow droning and unprepared dicking around.
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2019-05-14T11:03:54 < Cracki> also having a cat/dog/something moving around
2019-05-14T11:07:22 < zyp> dongs, that's quite cheap, should be an obvious choice for projects that needs large buffers but not necessarily fast
2019-05-14T11:09:59 < zyp> I think the other page mentioned something about QPI as well, so I suspect it could be hooked up to the memory mapped QSPI periph, just like QSPI flash
2019-05-14T11:10:14 < dongs> yes its qspi
2019-05-14T11:10:48 < zyp> but can the QSPI periph do memory mapped writes, or just memory mapped read?
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2019-05-14T14:43:47 < mawk> lol dongs 
2019-05-14T14:43:51 < mawk> china syndrom
2019-05-14T14:44:27 < mawk> pcb4u claims up to 50 layers
2019-05-14T14:44:29 < mawk> who would ever do that
2019-05-14T14:50:53 < englishman> pros
2019-05-14T14:55:30 < Cracki> a layer per net, with ground planes around everything, that's real comfort
2019-05-14T15:00:09 < mawk> I bought qfn, because you made it sound easy
2019-05-14T15:00:16 < mawk> I'll see how it goes
2019-05-14T15:00:51 < rajkosto> its annoying to see unconnected pads for qfn
2019-05-14T15:01:45 < rajkosto> they could look perfect yet not be connected 
2019-05-14T15:02:24 < mawk> even if I press down on it while the solder is flowing ?
2019-05-14T15:03:27 < mawk> if I put enough paste
2019-05-14T15:03:43 < rajkosto> that would just misalign it
2019-05-14T15:04:02 < rajkosto> you usually heat it up until its all aligned perfectly, then let it cool down, then press down, and start heating again
2019-05-14T15:04:08 < rajkosto> that way it just drops down doesnt move
2019-05-14T15:04:37 < mawk> I see
2019-05-14T15:04:43 < rajkosto> if you have too much solder paste it will come out as balls during the 2nd step on the edges
2019-05-14T15:04:46 < mawk> with hot air you mean right
2019-05-14T15:04:47 < rajkosto> and you have ti clean it up with soldering iron
2019-05-14T15:04:52 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-14T15:05:03 < mawk> but that would bridge the center pad with the pads also if there are too much paste ?
2019-05-14T15:05:12 < rajkosto> shouldnt with good paste
2019-05-14T15:05:23 < mawk> I see
2019-05-14T15:05:23 < rajkosto> anyway your paste layer should have only only a little bit in the center pad
2019-05-14T15:05:29 < rajkosto> not cover the whole thing
2019-05-14T15:05:32 < mawk> yeah I figured that
2019-05-14T15:05:34 < mawk> like with thermal paste
2019-05-14T15:05:51 < rajkosto> definitely pull it back way more than you would normal pads
2019-05-14T15:06:10 < rajkosto> problem with chinese stencil makers is that they ignore your paste layer and just preprocess your soldermask layer automatically so you cant guarantee that
2019-05-14T15:06:23 < rajkosto> (chinese stencil makers that make stencil along with pcb)
2019-05-14T15:07:10 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-14T15:07:30 < mawk> so I need the stencil
2019-05-14T15:08:46 < karlp> rajkosto:that's because 99% of people don't make a paste layer properly :)
2019-05-14T15:17:07 < Steffanx> Jlcpcb always uses my data
2019-05-14T15:17:45 < Steffanx> Once they didnt use my data because i forgot to add it :D
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2019-05-14T16:52:55 < bitmask> what count multimeter do you guys use?
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2019-05-14T17:38:21 < Cracki> "22000 count", uni-t ut61e, for less than 40 bucks off aliex
2019-05-14T17:38:46 < Cracki> counts mean little when you've got 1% or 0.5% accuracy
2019-05-14T17:41:17 < Cracki> pick a meter with fast continuity maybe
2019-05-14T17:41:30 < Cracki> you'll curse the ones that take half a second to respond
2019-05-14T17:49:26 < Cracki> browse some data sheets or manuals. they'll tell you accuracy in percent plus counts, so that matters a little
2019-05-14T17:50:22 < bitmask> I was thinking of going with the eevblog bm235
2019-05-14T17:50:26 < bitmask> read good things
2019-05-14T17:50:32 < dongs> > eeevblog
2019-05-14T17:50:41 < bitmask> yea yea yea, of course dongs come out to troll
2019-05-14T17:50:51 < bitmask> I just heard good things about the bryman meter it uses
2019-05-14T17:51:06 < bitmask> with more features than usual in that price point
2019-05-14T17:51:23 < karlp> yeah, slow buzz test is tedious
2019-05-14T17:51:31 < bitmask> and hard as hell to destroy
2019-05-14T17:51:38 < bitmask> fast buzzing is a feature of it
2019-05-14T17:51:39 < bitmask> :)
2019-05-14T17:51:45 < karlp> the other brymen lines are also well regarded.
2019-05-14T17:52:02 < karlp> I'm still using a 20 year old $10 meter.
2019-05-14T17:52:04 < bitmask> yea, but in the US the rebadger is greenlee and they mark up everything way too much
2019-05-14T17:52:12 < karlp> but I only use it for buzzing and basic voltage level tests.
2019-05-14T17:52:38 < bitmask> I have a cheapo now ,thought it would be useful to have a second and might as well spend a little bit of money this time
2019-05-14T17:53:24 < bitmask> hmm how do you wrap vinyl around the edge of a table, this is gonna be tricky
2019-05-14T17:54:41 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/DUBPOlH.png
2019-05-14T17:55:01 < bitmask> doing well so far, no air bubbles, shoulda sanded the top a bit better though, I didnt think it was gonna turn out so nice
2019-05-14T17:55:57 < Steffanx> Lol. Shouldnt you think about this before you start?
2019-05-14T17:56:12 < bitmask> :)
2019-05-14T17:56:24 < bitmask> measure 0 cut 20
2019-05-14T18:02:25 < bitmask> crap, I'm really not sure what to do, Maybe heat it and it will form around the curve? If I screw it up theres no coming back from that though
2019-05-14T18:03:24 < qyx> ut61 is good bitmask 
2019-05-14T18:03:41 < bitmask> really? I heard it was kinda bitchy :P
2019-05-14T18:03:54 < qyx> good for its price
2019-05-14T18:04:06 < qyx> also serial readout
2019-05-14T18:04:13 < bitmask> well is the bm235 better? I wouldnt mind spending $120
2019-05-14T18:04:24 < qyx> idk
2019-05-14T18:04:31 < bitmask> k ill look into the unit
2019-05-14T18:04:35 < bitmask> uni-t :)
2019-05-14T18:05:12 < qyx> it has ~0.5sec buzz
2019-05-14T18:05:17 < qyx> be warned
2019-05-14T18:05:37 < karlp> yeah, uni-t is slow for buzzing, but has IO, which can be neat for logging, 
2019-05-14T18:05:47 < qyx> yeah
2019-05-14T18:05:52 < karlp> I've done some nice graphing shit with it.
2019-05-14T18:06:00 < karlp> sigrok can talk to it for instance.
2019-05-14T18:06:07 < qyx> Iused is exacltly uhm... 0 times
2019-05-14T18:06:17 < karlp> I wouldn't buy a new meter if it ididn't have some IO capability.
2019-05-14T18:06:27 < qyx> but I bought it because of that feature
2019-05-14T18:06:35 < bitmask> can I pulverize the uni-t and bryman and add some epoxy and have the best of both?
2019-05-14T18:06:45 < karlp> I did some nice current consumption over the boot period, and under some testing we were running
2019-05-14T18:07:51 < karlp> hangon, eevblag has _two_ branded meters now?
2019-05-14T18:08:00 < bitmask> yea
2019-05-14T18:08:05 < bitmask> the one I mentioned is the cheaper one
2019-05-14T18:16:31 < Cracki> bitmask, people putting decals on cars spray the surface with soapy water first. then it's all "malleable" and you can scrape out bubbles. it'll dry and stick.
2019-05-14T18:16:52 < Cracki> nvm, your problem is corners
2019-05-14T18:17:07 < bitmask> yup
2019-05-14T18:17:15 < Cracki> qyx, ut61 is several cores. the 61e is diff from 61c/d and others
2019-05-14T18:17:50 < Cracki> the 61e has fast buzz, I know the c/d has slow buzz because my boss has one for simple work
2019-05-14T18:18:42 < Cracki> you can buy the serial thingy or hack it up with an usb uart, a photodiode, and maybe a few other discretes
2019-05-14T18:19:32 < Cracki> in some modes it updates exactly every 0.55 (!) seconds. I used that once to plot the voltage of some battery while charging.
2019-05-14T18:20:07 < Cracki> sigrok wiki has info on the "uni-t 61" mess.
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2019-05-14T18:38:11 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/Y0loQDd.jpg
2019-05-14T18:38:16 < bitmask> corners arent very good but I really like it
2019-05-14T18:41:35 < Cracki> nice
2019-05-14T18:51:48 < dongs> https://www.altium.com/documentation/sites/default/files/wiki_attachments/294891/JumperTypeJumperID.png
2019-05-14T18:51:51 < dongs> why teh fuck this doenst work??
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2019-05-14T19:09:08 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/4oK62P4.png
2019-05-14T19:09:16 < bitmask> like my huge work desk?
2019-05-14T19:11:50 < aandrew> Luxury! Back in my day I only had a three legged stool with one leg shorter than the others to keep my stuff on, while I squatted like a Slav beside it
2019-05-14T19:12:00 < dongs> not enough sonic t he hedgehog stickers on it
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2019-05-14T19:14:18 < Cracki> more sonic? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6DQ3hhU8AAJME0.jpg
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2019-05-14T19:16:39 < bitmask__> .
2019-05-14T19:16:43 -!- bitmask__ is now known as bitmask
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2019-05-14T19:18:43 < Cracki> is that a long underscore or are you just happy to see sonic
2019-05-14T19:19:44 < bitmask> sonic?
2019-05-14T19:19:49 < bitmask> I'm happy to see you ;)
2019-05-14T19:20:30 < Cracki> >_>
2019-05-14T19:23:57 < kakimir> https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AML4bPlAGUwk0Ig&cid=18256FD84EC50A29&id=18256FD84EC50A29%2171100&parId=18256FD84EC50A29%2111328&o=OneUp
2019-05-14T19:24:24 < kakimir> my lib has been memetized
2019-05-14T19:26:05 < kakimir> that picture is kaki - ka climbing to a tree ass first
2019-05-14T19:27:09 < kakimir> "yet again he is climbing to a tree ass first"
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2019-05-14T19:42:31 < Steffanx> Lib kakimir ?
2019-05-14T19:42:55 < kakimir> kaalib
2019-05-14T19:43:04 < kakimir> a lib I made that became instant meme
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2019-05-14T19:54:50 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vW-iU4KsYI special kakimusics
2019-05-14T19:59:49 < Steffanx> where can we see kaalib?
2019-05-14T20:04:09 -!- tprrt [~tprrt@217.114.201.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2019-05-14T20:06:05 < kakimir> no man
2019-05-14T20:06:09 < kakimir> meme is already out of control
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2019-05-14T20:10:14 < kakimir> as you see
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2019-05-14T20:25:57 < Steffanx> i dont meme, so i have to see the original
2019-05-14T20:27:25 < Steffanx> Here some random kakimir https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2tmRpm4iK8 
2019-05-14T20:27:28 < Steffanx> *kakimusic
2019-05-14T20:30:16 < kakimir> singing competitions are really big in china
2019-05-14T20:36:26 < englishman> whoa
2019-05-14T20:36:38 < englishman> just learned about left/right selection box in altidumb
2019-05-14T20:45:56 < aandrew> what is that?
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2019-05-14T20:57:40 < englishman> selecting right to left selects only what is entirely in the selection box
2019-05-14T20:57:47 < englishman> erro
2019-05-14T20:57:49 < englishman> left to right
2019-05-14T20:58:00 < englishman> selecting right to left selects anything inside or touchign the selection box
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2019-05-14T20:58:27 < englishman> left to right makes a blue box
2019-05-14T20:58:30 < englishman> right to left makes a green box
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2019-05-14T21:11:16 < Steffanx> interesting
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2019-05-14T21:29:33 < kakimir> how to scale voltage from range 1 to range 2 linearly using opamps?
2019-05-14T21:29:43 < kakimir> let's say 3v3 range
2019-05-14T21:29:50 < kakimir> into 15v range
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2019-05-14T21:30:06 < ohsix> 0-3v3 -> 0-15?
2019-05-14T21:30:10 < kakimir> yes
2019-05-14T21:30:14 < kakimir> hello ohsix
2019-05-14T21:30:19 < ohsix> hi
2019-05-14T21:31:06 < ohsix> does something with a fixed gain of five just do the right thing there huhu, or do you need a different topology for a multiplier
2019-05-14T21:31:24 < ohsix> assuming the output range of the opamp can do the voltage
2019-05-14T21:31:43 < kakimir> no
2019-05-14T21:31:57 < ohsix> why not
2019-05-14T21:32:05 < kakimir> range 2 can vary
2019-05-14T21:32:19 < kakimir> in operation and for compatibility between different devices
2019-05-14T21:32:32 < kakimir> it can be 10v or 15v
2019-05-14T21:33:04 < kakimir> and 10v can be 9.5V or 10.5V and it should cause no problems for scaling
2019-05-14T21:33:33 < ohsix> can you reference the positive supply on the amp with the output device?
2019-05-14T21:33:48 < kakimir> ?
2019-05-14T21:34:08 < ohsix> can you get 10v from a module that uses a x-10v input
2019-05-14T21:34:19 < kakimir> yes
2019-05-14T21:34:34 < kakimir> this device should replace a potentiometer
2019-05-14T21:35:14 < ohsix> is it to avoid having to change the potentiometer when the input to the module's reference voltage moves around?
2019-05-14T21:36:13 < kakimir> it's a voltage divider
2019-05-14T21:36:42 < kakimir> with potentiometer it doesn't matter what the reference is
2019-05-14T21:36:45 < ohsix> yea i mean what makes the op amp gadget different in utility or what you want, compared to just a potentiometer
2019-05-14T21:36:58 < kakimir> software control
2019-05-14T21:37:05 < kakimir> modulation
2019-05-14T21:37:36 < ohsix> oh, so you can mix in another control voltage?
2019-05-14T21:37:50 < kakimir> so that I can do anything
2019-05-14T21:37:55 < ohsix> voltage controlled gain stuff is a pretty common application
2019-05-14T21:38:09 < kakimir> okay "voltage controlled gain"
2019-05-14T21:38:35 < ohsix> gain of 1 is going to be like the potentiometer just multiplying 0-1, and you can modulate the gain
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2019-05-14T21:41:51 < ohsix> there sure are a lot of variable gain amplifier specific things now, and not a lot of old schematics turning up on the google. maybe i got the misapprehension from a book, but they're out there
2019-05-14T21:42:56 < ohsix> https://web.mit.edu/6.101/www/reference/op_amps_everyone.pdf
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2019-05-14T21:49:13 < ohsix> https://www.schmitzbits.de/vca.html this guys' website is a nightmare
2019-05-14T21:50:50 < ohsix> http://sound.whsites.net/articles/vca-techniques.html
2019-05-14T21:53:47 < kakimir> it's still bright outside
2019-05-14T21:54:00 < kakimir> dusk
2019-05-14T21:54:18 < kakimir> about 22PM so.. me forget to go grocery shopping
2019-05-14T21:54:26 < kakimir> usually I wait for dark
2019-05-14T21:54:46 < ohsix> http://library1.org/_ads/A06951B36104DAC10EB535A14165DA7C
2019-05-14T21:55:56 < Cracki> "GET". easy to miss.
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2019-05-14T22:08:12 < kakimir> https://pr0gramm.com/top/3201163
2019-05-14T22:08:20 < kakimir> relevant
2019-05-14T22:20:05 < qyx> kakimir: what about using a proper digital potentiometeR?
2019-05-14T22:22:26 < upgrdman> more PIC fuckery: RTCC_TimeReset(false) causes time to be reset... wtf.
2019-05-14T22:22:40 < upgrdman> should call it RTCC_TimePreserve() or someshit
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2019-05-14T22:23:48 < qyx> at least you can multiply on PIC
2019-05-14T22:40:38 < Cracki> uh
2019-05-14T22:41:00 < Cracki> you wonder why something called reset() does a reset? :P
2019-05-14T22:41:27 < Cracki> aren't there pics without that multiplier peripheral?
2019-05-14T22:43:24 < Cracki> ah, pic16 and below don't have even that
2019-05-14T22:43:51 < Cracki> if that matrix can be taken to mean 8x8 integer multiplier http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/30010068F.pdf
2019-05-14T22:44:38 < Cracki> wew MathACC computes "a 16-bit PID function"
2019-05-14T22:48:38 < Cracki> vegan "activists" get barbecued https://www.rt.com/news/459255-netherlands-vegans-occupy-pig-farm/
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2019-05-14T22:50:01 < qyx> idk but msp430 doesn't have one for sre
2019-05-14T22:50:03 < qyx> sure
2019-05-14T22:50:21 < Cracki> which one was it with the "multiplier peripheral"?
2019-05-14T22:50:37 < Cracki> or did they both do that for the variants that can multiply?
2019-05-14T22:51:21 < Cracki> aha! the msp430 has a peripheral for it
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2019-05-14T22:52:33 < Cracki> so pics, being 8 bits, aren't even as bad as the 16 bit msp430! mindboggling
2019-05-14T22:53:25 < kakimir> qyx: maybe!
2019-05-14T22:53:34 < kakimir> would safe a lot of work
2019-05-14T22:55:24 < kakimir> https://pr0gramm.com/top/3199401 
2019-05-14T22:57:34 < Cracki> https://pr0gramm.com/top/3202570
2019-05-14T22:58:00 < Cracki> >Franzosen lieben diesen Trick + −
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2019-05-14T23:06:30 < qyx> oh risc-v mcu with FFT accelerator
2019-05-14T23:06:57 < Cracki> you could give it a convolution accelerator too
2019-05-14T23:07:02 < qyx> freertos support, openocd support
2019-05-14T23:08:11 < qyx> Kendryte K210
2019-05-14T23:08:39 < qyx> y no such stm32?
2019-05-14T23:10:34 < Steffanx> Heh, good commercial Cracki
2019-05-14T23:12:39 < kakimir> qyx: how about no stock for 36V digital potentiometers?
2019-05-14T23:12:51 < kakimir> I think it will do as excuse
2019-05-14T23:33:07 < catphish_> i have a USB question - when i configure USB_ADDRn_RX to point to a receive buffer, does this have to be in dedicated USB memory? my linker script doesn't seem to have any reference to such memory
2019-05-14T23:33:42 < Steffanx> Hows the potbox kakimir?
2019-05-14T23:34:01 < kakimir> canceled
2019-05-14T23:34:14 < kakimir> Canceled*
2019-05-14T23:34:29 < Steffanx> wut
2019-05-14T23:34:36 < Steffanx> what happened
2019-05-14T23:34:41 < Steffanx> kaalib?
2019-05-14T23:35:28 < kakimir> it's no more needed
2019-05-14T23:36:08 < Steffanx> lol here we go again. Intel love. https://mdsattacks.com/
2019-05-14T23:37:04 < catphish_> ugh
2019-05-14T23:37:05 < Steffanx> oh and more i see https://cpu.fail/
2019-05-14T23:40:50 < Steffanx> No more tuning for kakimir?
2019-05-14T23:41:54 < mawk> nice Steffanx 
2019-05-14T23:41:56 < inca[m]> is there a fast way to go from generic resistor and footprint to digikey/mouser bom?
2019-05-14T23:42:07 < inca[m]> octopart bomtool appears to be down for me
2019-05-14T23:44:32 < englishman> export your bom and upload it?
2019-05-14T23:44:56 < englishman> dk and mouser both have bom upload tools
2019-05-14T23:47:30 < inca[m]> englishman: Eagle HDK file does not have mfg specified
2019-05-14T23:47:33 < zyp> catphish_, yes, and the address is relative to the start of the buffer, it's not a global address
2019-05-14T23:48:21 < zyp> catphish_, also, USB_ADDRn_RX is also located in the buffer memory itself :)
2019-05-14T23:50:08 < zyp> USB_BTABLE says where in the buffer you put the descriptor table, the natural thing is to just leave it at 0, meaning you keep it at the start
2019-05-14T23:50:18 < zyp> and then allocate endpoint buffers after that
2019-05-14T23:51:00 < zyp> I set both buf and bufd to point at buf_addr: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usb/l0_usb_def.h
2019-05-14T23:51:36 < zyp> buf_end here is used for allocation: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usb/l0_usb.h
2019-05-14T23:51:45 < catphish_> zyp: is USB_BTABLE also relative to the USB memory start?
2019-05-14T23:52:09 < zyp> it's set to 0x40 at reset, to point just beyond descriptor table
2019-05-14T23:52:21 < zyp> and then added to every time I allocate for an endpoint
2019-05-14T23:52:24 < zyp> yes
2019-05-14T23:53:26 < zyp> also see read/write functions, how they look up ADDR_TX/RX
2019-05-14T23:54:28 < zyp> you've got it easy since you're working with v2 of the peripheral
2019-05-14T23:54:29 < catphish_> so USB_BTABLE is usually set to 0? so the table is at the start of the USB memory>
2019-05-14T23:54:34 < zyp> v1 is sillier :)
2019-05-14T23:54:39 < zyp> yes, reset is 0
2019-05-14T23:54:45 < catphish_> then the first buffer is 0x40?
2019-05-14T23:54:52 < zyp> correct
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2019-05-14T23:55:31 < catphish_> one more question, does one buffer have a fixed size?
2019-05-14T23:55:53 < zyp> fixed how?
2019-05-14T23:56:13 < zyp> I allocate as much as I need to fit the largest packet the endpoint can handle
2019-05-14T23:56:29 < catphish_> well, if i set USB_ADDR0_RX to 0x40, how much memory does that consume?
2019-05-14T23:56:47 < catphish_> "the largest packet the endpoint can handle" << i meant how big is this
2019-05-14T23:57:06 < zyp> duh, that depends on the endpoint :=
2019-05-14T23:57:07 < zyp> :)
2019-05-14T23:57:13 < catphish_> i see :)
2019-05-14T23:57:28 < catphish_> i guess there's a reason these buffers aren't in fixed locations
2019-05-14T23:57:45 < zyp> well, yeah, that would be wasteful
2019-05-14T23:58:01 < zyp> the typical size for USB FS is 64
2019-05-14T23:58:14 < catphish_> i'm covered in foul mites :(
2019-05-14T23:58:22 < zyp> control and bulk is usually 64, but may be smaller if you want to conserve buffer memory
2019-05-14T23:58:40 < zyp> interrupt can be 64 or smaller, depending on how large the packets you deal with is
2019-05-14T23:58:47 < zyp> isochronous can be larger
2019-05-14T23:59:17 < catphish_> i'm trying to keep things simple right now, and just receive my first SETUP packet
2019-05-14T23:59:47 < zyp> I think spec says up to 1023 or something, but good luck doing that on this hardware :)
--- Day changed Wed May 15 2019
2019-05-15T00:00:22 < zyp> well, I suggest looking at my hw_conf_ep()
2019-05-15T00:00:34 < catphish_> and, how do i access that memory? do i just hardcode a pointer?
2019-05-15T00:01:01 < zyp> after usb reset, it's called with hw_conf_ep(0, EPType::Control, 64)
2019-05-15T00:01:07 < zyp> to set up EP0
2019-05-15T00:01:35 < zyp> buffer memory is somewhere in peripheral memory area, just like the register area
2019-05-15T00:01:39 < catphish_> is that your functin?
2019-05-15T00:01:53 < zyp> it's in the file I linked you
2019-05-15T00:02:17 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usb/usb.h <- here's how I handle defining instances
2019-05-15T00:02:32 < zyp> first address is register area, second address is buffer area
2019-05-15T00:02:50 < Thorn> 3400 mAh, users report about ~3000 mAh, is it realistic https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2PCS-100-New-Original-NCR18650B-3-7-v-3400-mah-18650-Lithium-Rechargeable-Battery-Flashlight-Digital/32324914059.html
2019-05-15T00:03:53 < specing> don't buy cells on ali
2019-05-15T00:03:58 < catphish_> zyp: thanks :)
2019-05-15T00:04:04 < zyp> catphish_, in short, just think of it as a second register area, except you have some flexibility in what goes where in that area ;)
2019-05-15T00:04:33 < zyp> and again, be happy you're not dealing with v1
2019-05-15T00:05:17 < zyp> the buffer memory is only 16 bits wide
2019-05-15T00:05:36 < zyp> on v2 it's still mapped sanely, but on v1, it's mapped on a 32-bit port
2019-05-15T00:06:05 < zyp> i.e. for every four bytes, two exists and two doesn't :D
2019-05-15T00:06:37 < catphish_> yeah i read about that 16 bits mapped in 32 bit address space mess
2019-05-15T00:06:48 < catphish_> i hoped mine didn't work like that
2019-05-15T00:06:55 < zyp> IIRC on v2 you still have to use 16-bit accesses though
2019-05-15T00:08:21 < catphish_> yeah i think it's 16-bit addressed
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2019-05-15T00:18:39 < Steffanx> What happened with the tuner kakimir ? You seemed so determined
2019-05-15T00:25:15 < kakimir> :]
2019-05-15T00:26:44 < kakimir> https://pr0gramm.com/top/3199401 repost
2019-05-15T00:31:08 < kakimir> I remembered how to give up
2019-05-15T00:38:19 < Steffanx> I would be afraid of a home made potbox as well
2019-05-15T00:38:22 < Steffanx> True that
2019-05-15T00:38:44 < kakimir> I need to focus my OCD to right things
2019-05-15T00:40:23 < Steffanx> Pr0gramm.com is one of the "right things". ;)
2019-05-15T00:46:52 < kakimir> and youtube
2019-05-15T00:47:09 < Steffanx> Aha
2019-05-15T00:47:24 < kakimir> and synthwave
2019-05-15T00:47:53 < upgrdman> totally on topic: anyone know of spice jars with a spring-loaded lid that is big enough for a spoon to fit through? so you can one-handed open it and remove a spoonful of shit.
2019-05-15T00:48:54 < upgrdman> hmm something like this, but a spice jar, not a big ass pitcher  https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-US-ARMY-1941-A-G-M-CO-ALUMINUM-PITCHER-CREAMER-With-SPRING-LOADED-LID-/173844548563
2019-05-15T00:49:10 < BrainDamage> there is for salt
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2019-05-15T00:49:16 < BrainDamage> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=salt+server&t=ffab&iax=images&ia=images
2019-05-15T00:49:53 < upgrdman> oh fuck ya
2019-05-15T00:49:59 < upgrdman> "salt server" cool
2019-05-15T00:50:11 < upgrdman> time for a server rack in the kitchen
2019-05-15T00:51:13 < upgrdman> hmm might need to find some with a rubber gasket or something to keep them slightly airtight
2019-05-15T00:51:26 < upgrdman> but we're getting closer :)
2019-05-15T00:51:48 < Steffanx> Makes me wonder if upgrdman lost a hand in china
2019-05-15T00:52:01 < BrainDamage> you might want to paint them dark too, because light spoils spices
2019-05-15T00:52:03 < upgrdman> nah im fully equipped. just lazy.
2019-05-15T00:52:16 < upgrdman> BrainDamage, orly? TIL
2019-05-15T00:52:24 < BrainDamage> or at least, store them in a cabinet
2019-05-15T00:52:44 < BrainDamage> it's the uv, they trigger chemical reactions and oxidation
2019-05-15T00:53:01 < upgrdman> i guess theres benefit to my dimly lit kitchen, o
2019-05-15T00:53:03 < upgrdman> ok
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2019-05-15T01:20:35 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RjjZNwudgc
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2019-05-15T02:32:17 < englishman> Thorn: there are a lot of grey market shits. it could be real or a good fake. sometimes real ones arrive without labels too.
2019-05-15T02:32:33 < englishman> if it works who cares
2019-05-15T02:32:42 < englishman> not like you're selling medical equipment
2019-05-15T02:33:33 < Thorn> well I don't even care about capacity that much, all I need from them is working and not starting a fire
2019-05-15T02:34:04 < Thorn> the devices I'm prototyping should work for months even on 1000 mAh
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2019-05-15T02:35:40 < Thorn> some russians in ali reviews even do short circuit tests lol (in another listing, result is 22 А)
2019-05-15T02:35:44 < englishman> maybe buy from somewhere better then
2019-05-15T02:36:01 < englishman> yes short circuit test is part of UN cert
2019-05-15T02:36:03 < englishman> and ul
2019-05-15T02:36:14 < englishman> legit batteries will have passed both
2019-05-15T02:36:44 < englishman> fake ones too
2019-05-15T02:36:51 < Thorn> btw according to my calculations DW01 overcurrent protection triggers at 4.44...8.57A
2019-05-15T02:37:39 < englishman> does weight matter
2019-05-15T02:37:49 < englishman> just put a cheap nimh
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2019-05-15T03:00:24 < Lux> Thorn: you could use lifepo4 cells if you can live with less capacity
2019-05-15T03:00:35 < Lux> those don't blow up and have a better cycle life
2019-05-15T03:01:15 < Lux> and you can run 3.3V electronics directly off those, as the voltage only goes up to 3.6 V max
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2019-05-15T03:02:12 < Thorn> I'm actually planning for li-poly
2019-05-15T03:02:18 < ds2> what is the shortcircuit test? short and see if  protection PCB fires?
2019-05-15T03:02:32 < ds2> s/fires/triggers/
2019-05-15T03:02:46 < Thorn> ds2: they actually measured the current s probably not
2019-05-15T03:02:52 < Lux> even safer
2019-05-15T03:03:04 < Thorn> need to find charger ICs for lifepo4
2019-05-15T03:03:09 < Lux> stuff like that: https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/heter-18650-1800mah-5-4a.html
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2019-05-15T03:04:02 < ds2> can't you just CV charge the LiFePO4's?
2019-05-15T03:04:11 < specing> CC/CV
2019-05-15T03:04:15 < Thorn> btw I'm also planning to test dw01 by attaching a lab psu instead of a battery
2019-05-15T03:05:28 < ds2> is CC/CV needed for LiFePO4? they are suppose to be able to work as a drop in for lead-acid batteries
2019-05-15T03:06:59 < Lux> Thorn: tp5000 works for lifepo4
2019-05-15T03:07:16 < Lux> a chinese switch mode charger
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2019-05-15T03:19:09 < specing> ds2: lead acids need CC/CV, too
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2019-05-15T03:46:02 < ds2> I doubt a car alternator does the full CC/CV cycle... 
2019-05-15T03:51:56 < specing> ds2: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery
2019-05-15T03:52:21 < ds2> i have seen that... CC/CV give best performance but a dumb CV charger works
2019-05-15T03:52:46 < Thorn>  ugh why are there 18650 LifePO4
2019-05-15T03:53:12 < Thorn> what if someone puts it into a 4.2V charger
2019-05-15T03:54:06 < specing> Thorn: why not?
2019-05-15T03:54:10 < specing> its just a format
2019-05-15T03:54:19 < specing> there are li-ion AAs and AAAs, too
2019-05-15T03:55:03 < specing> the good news is that you cannot buy them in every brick&mortar store, so the chance of clueless people getting their hands on them is low.
2019-05-15T03:55:43 < ds2> i think Home depot sells AA LiFePO4's
2019-05-15T03:55:46 < ds2> :(
2019-05-15T03:55:53 < specing> haha
2019-05-15T03:56:00 < ds2> for the solar lights
2019-05-15T03:58:54 < jadew> sup?
2019-05-15T04:00:11 < Laurenceb_> emdrive is the #qanon of physics
2019-05-15T04:00:32 < jadew> they're still going with that?
2019-05-15T04:01:02 < jadew> did they manage to find more proof that it works?
2019-05-15T04:01:19 < jadew> (different experiments)
2019-05-15T04:01:21 < Laurenceb_> >proof that it works
2019-05-15T04:01:46 < Laurenceb_> lolno the few that actually built anything proved it didnt work, but the rest of them are true believers
2019-05-15T04:02:08 < jadew> wait, didn't NASA corroborate their results?
2019-05-15T04:02:32 < Laurenceb_> no some autists at nasa did some retarded shit then got fired
2019-05-15T04:02:33 < jadew> was that paper retracted?
2019-05-15T04:02:35 < Laurenceb_> yes
2019-05-15T04:02:42 < jadew> ah...
2019-05-15T04:02:46 < Laurenceb_> lol
2019-05-15T04:03:01 < Laurenceb_> the funny thing is that there are still true believers
2019-05-15T04:03:41 < Laurenceb_> case in point https://mobile.twitter.com/memcculloch?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
2019-05-15T04:04:04 < jadew> well, if several teams could have replicated their results, then it would have been really awesome, so their excitement is understandable
2019-05-15T04:04:31 < Laurenceb_> >basedpoland
2019-05-15T04:04:41 < Laurenceb_> kek he is from the_donald too
2019-05-15T04:05:04 < englishman> hi laurent
2019-05-15T04:05:05 < englishman> welcome
2019-05-15T04:05:14 < Laurenceb_> hello
2019-05-15T04:05:23 < englishman> how are the AI accelerators
2019-05-15T04:05:35 < Laurenceb_> too busy with the wambulance
2019-05-15T04:05:45 < Laurenceb_> thinking of quitting my jerb to work on V2X
2019-05-15T04:05:55 < Laurenceb_> not sure if this will be even more retarded
2019-05-15T04:06:24 < jadew> v2x?
2019-05-15T04:06:37 < Laurenceb_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-everything
2019-05-15T04:06:44 < englishman> internet of dickcars
2019-05-15T04:06:47 < Laurenceb_> inb4 vehicle 2 emdrive
2019-05-15T04:06:58 < Laurenceb_> vehicle 2 /r/the_donald
2019-05-15T04:08:36 < Laurenceb_> maybe I should just build the k210 cat killer
2019-05-15T04:09:47 < Laurenceb_> or a Nasim Aghdam machine https://imgoat.com/uploads/a46c1b9512/213627.jpg
2019-05-15T04:11:34 < Laurenceb_> she can be our queen
2019-05-15T04:12:24 < Laurenceb_> I finally plucked up the courage and went to the Attic at the weekend
2019-05-15T04:16:36 < Laurenceb_> anyway, sleep time, more trolling tomorrow
2019-05-15T04:19:36 < jadew> night
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2019-05-15T05:13:15 < dongs> Laurenceb__ is actually inventor of emdrive
2019-05-15T05:13:44 < englishman> dongo did you know about left/right drag selects in altidumb
2019-05-15T05:13:53 < englishman> i just learned it today and idk how i didnt know this
2019-05-15T05:13:53 < dongs> hm?
2019-05-15T05:14:10 < englishman> the selection box is different if you drag right or left
2019-05-15T05:14:16 < englishman> and acts different
2019-05-15T05:14:21 < dongs> oooh
2019-05-15T05:14:26 < dongs> lmao yeah looks diff
2019-05-15T05:14:28 < dongs> blue/green
2019-05-15T05:14:30 < englishman> yeah
2019-05-15T05:14:31 < dongs> and seems t o select more greedy
2019-05-15T05:14:36 < englishman> one selects things only in box
2019-05-15T05:14:41 < englishman> and other selects inside + touching
2019-05-15T05:14:43 < dongs> right
2019-05-15T05:14:44 < dongs> seems
2019-05-15T05:14:57 < dongs> im finally done routing the fucking IoT trash
2019-05-15T05:15:00 < englishman> also
2019-05-15T05:15:04 < dongs> gko export is giving me fucks
2019-05-15T05:15:06 < dongs> then im done wiht it
2019-05-15T05:15:08 < englishman> when you pt to place a trace
2019-05-15T05:15:15 < englishman> ctrl+shift+mousewheel
2019-05-15T05:15:20 < englishman> instead of *ing through layers
2019-05-15T05:15:49 < dongs> doesnt matter for me cuz +/- on numpad do same
2019-05-15T05:15:51 < dongs> adn thats already on my mouse
2019-05-15T05:15:56 < dongs> less keys to press
2019-05-15T05:16:30 < englishman> im doing the altodumb advanced course
2019-05-15T05:16:50 < dongs> nice
2019-05-15T05:16:50 < englishman> which is mostly the dumb altifuck coffee talking about buying coffee at walmart and general 60 year old rambling
2019-05-15T05:16:55 < dongs> that is some advanced shit
2019-05-15T05:17:15 < englishman> but then there is a bunch of stuff with the panels and like xSignals and stuff that will def be handy
2019-05-15T05:17:56 < dongs> allright there, fixed it.
2019-05-15T05:18:03 < dongs> fucking keepout layer was hidden for some reason in layer stack
2019-05-15T05:18:12 < dongs> and pkt made top-layer only keepouts
2019-05-15T05:19:01 < dongs> did you say you had some lolzy course materials for this?
2019-05-15T05:19:06 < dongs> anything actually interesting in tehre or just wank
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2019-05-15T05:19:25 < englishman> yeah not too much in the materials sadly you could blaze through it in an hour or two
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2019-05-15T05:19:32 < dongs> englishman: any idea why pt + routing seems to be kinda way more clingy in 19
2019-05-15T05:19:33 < englishman> its mostly the dude rambling and doing stuff
2019-05-15T05:19:41 < dongs> like, it tries to stick to shit and makes dumb loops if you go back and whatever
2019-05-15T05:19:42 < englishman> what do you mean clingy
2019-05-15T05:19:48 < dongs> like... lemme screenshot somethign
2019-05-15T05:21:16 < dongs> ttps://i.imgur.com/uM20YeB.png
2019-05-15T05:21:23 < dongs> like i start routing and it makes this dumb shit almost instantlyt
2019-05-15T05:21:41 < dongs> i think it s 'routing gloss' in pcb>layout but even 'hard' still makes it do dumb shit compared to 18
2019-05-15T05:22:01 < englishman> turn it off?
2019-05-15T05:22:11 < englishman> theres postrouting gloss mode now
2019-05-15T05:22:18 < dongs> theres no off option
2019-05-15T05:22:22 < englishman> what ver
2019-05-15T05:22:34 < englishman> my 19.0.x def has off
2019-05-15T05:22:43 < dongs> yes, off is what makes is that bad
2019-05-15T05:22:45 < englishman> just isntalled 19.1.5 firing that u now
2019-05-15T05:22:51 < dongs> 'strong' makes more usable but still worse than 18
2019-05-15T05:25:27 < englishman> idk not seen it that bad
2019-05-15T05:25:47 < englishman> follow mouse trail?
2019-05-15T05:25:51 < englishman> automatically remove loops?
2019-05-15T05:26:03 < dongs> hm whats the mouse trail thign
2019-05-15T05:26:52 < englishman> same settings page
2019-05-15T05:27:00 < dongs> YESS i think thats it
2019-05-15T05:27:05 < dongs> now its not retarded
2019-05-15T05:27:20 < englishman> $2k usd plese
2019-05-15T05:27:32 < dongs> what teh fuck is that option for
2019-05-15T05:27:51 < englishman> you can use it to make S shapes around routes
2019-05-15T05:27:55 < englishman> if you want it to go a certain way
2019-05-15T05:27:56 < englishman> i guess
2019-05-15T05:28:18 < dongs> Follow Mouse Trail - enable this option to activate routing through the mouse trail.
2019-05-15T05:28:20 < englishman> like it won't cross unroutable areas to find a shorter route
2019-05-15T05:28:21 < dongs>  ?????????
2019-05-15T05:28:24 < dongs> nice docs
2019-05-15T05:28:24 < englishman> lol
2019-05-15T05:28:29 < englishman> fuckin paki docs
2019-05-15T05:28:38 < dongs> Modified by Phil Loughhead on Jun 17, 2017
2019-05-15T05:29:03 < dongs> but yeah this is definitely it
2019-05-15T05:29:07 < englishman> 19.1.5 still does not correctly import theme set fyi
2019-05-15T05:29:10 < dongs> its not going "backwards" over traces
2019-05-15T05:29:22 < dongs> what do you mean
2019-05-15T05:29:27 < dongs> the starting up in black shit?>
2019-05-15T05:29:29 < englishman> yes
2019-05-15T05:29:33 < dongs> it does work if you quit it once
2019-05-15T05:29:35 < dongs> after import
2019-05-15T05:29:38 < dongs> without changing
2019-05-15T05:29:39 < englishman> ha
2019-05-15T05:29:45 < dongs> well, 19.x does
2019-05-15T05:29:50 < dongs> donno if tehy specifically broke it in 1.5
2019-05-15T05:29:55 < dongs> i'm on .0 still
2019-05-15T05:30:19 < englishman> .1 is faster for sure but i'm on the laptop where such shit is noticeable
2019-05-15T05:30:43 < dongs> what is faster?
2019-05-15T05:30:49 < dongs> have they made actual improvements to renderer or something?
2019-05-15T05:30:57 < englishman> idk just dicking around in pcb
2019-05-15T05:31:07 < englishman> much less lag from routing and shit and online drc
2019-05-15T05:31:13 < dongs> loacl altidumb pro still using summer 2004 ot hatever
2019-05-15T05:31:31 < dongs> because ECO was really slow during like 13.x or someshit
2019-05-15T05:31:45 < dongs> i told him its been fixed for literally years now
2019-05-15T05:31:51 < dongs> but nope retard still uses ancient shit
2019-05-15T05:32:01 < englishman> well serves them right for breaking shit fucking non stop
2019-05-15T05:43:18 < Thorn> should I upgrade from 19.1.3 to 19.1.5?
2019-05-15T05:47:57 < dongs> i'm still on 19.0.x so i couldnt tell you
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2019-05-15T07:18:12 < dongs> https://github.com/Montanari9/StandAlone
2019-05-15T07:18:12 < dongs> hmm
2019-05-15T07:24:51 < dongs> void alerta_regravavao_LED(void)
2019-05-15T07:24:54 < dongs> holy shit plz die
2019-05-15T07:27:01 < emeb_mac> what is this moon-man lingo?
2019-05-15T07:27:43 < emeb_mac> ah - portuguese
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2019-05-15T07:32:54 < Thorn> are there dystopias where the main protagonist is a top official in the totalitarian regime?
2019-05-15T07:33:11 -!- R2COM [~R2COM@ip68-3-184-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-05-15T07:33:18 < Thorn> rather than a nobody who SUDDENLY overthrows the whole system
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2019-05-15T08:21:24 < dongs> holy shitttttttttttttttttt WHY IS MTP SUCH A NIGGERFAGGOT PROTCOL OMG
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2019-05-15T11:10:51 < jadew> dongs, use something else
2019-05-15T11:10:53 < jadew> android phone?
2019-05-15T11:11:10 < jadew> use adb
2019-05-15T11:15:47 < Steffanx> Is it rage o'clock?
2019-05-15T11:16:32 < jadew> looks like it was 2 hours ago
2019-05-15T11:16:41 < R2COM> hi
2019-05-15T11:16:43 < R2COM> im here
2019-05-15T11:16:51 < jadew> but in its spirit, I hate the new ebay change
2019-05-15T11:16:54 < jadew> hey R2COM 
2019-05-15T11:17:13 < R2COM> sup
2019-05-15T11:17:17 < jadew> you can't have fixed price listings that are meant to expire after x time
2019-05-15T11:17:24 < Steffanx> Time is irrelevant at IRC jadew 
2019-05-15T11:17:34 < R2COM> just like in casinos
2019-05-15T11:17:42 < R2COM> theres no windows or watches
2019-05-15T11:17:50 < R2COM> so that clients dont have idea of time
2019-05-15T11:17:55 < jadew> heh R2COM, pretty much
2019-05-15T11:18:19 < jadew> the problem with that is that even tho they bill you monthly, your listing doesn't show up as a new one anymore
2019-05-15T11:18:35 < R2COM> speaking of casinos, ill get some money reward for some patent filing soon and proly will spend some dosh on casinos and strip clubs
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2019-05-15T11:19:06 < jadew> everyone says patents are bullshit - is that true?
2019-05-15T11:19:18 < R2COM> depends
2019-05-15T11:20:05 < R2COM> companies will reward for patents which they think can be used by their competitors
2019-05-15T11:20:33 < R2COM> anyway
2019-05-15T11:20:35 < R2COM> whats up
2019-05-15T11:21:11 < jadew> I'm supposed to work for a client, but my stuff is so much more exciting
2019-05-15T11:21:34 < R2COM> what your stuff
2019-05-15T11:21:37 < jadew> so I've been delaying this for a week
2019-05-15T11:22:04 < jadew> I can't talk about my stuff until it's released ofc
2019-05-15T11:22:07 < R2COM> yeah at work theres stuff i am excited to work on and theres some bullshit thing i just have to work on
2019-05-15T11:22:12 < R2COM> and sometimes i delay that bs stuff
2019-05-15T11:22:45 < jadew> yeah, I delayed this enough tho
2019-05-15T11:23:30 < jadew> and it's been stressing me out
2019-05-15T11:23:42 < R2COM> finish it tomorrow
2019-05-15T11:23:46 < R2COM> and be done with it
2019-05-15T11:24:07 < jadew> I bet the client will ask me about it today
2019-05-15T11:24:14 < jadew> "how's that thing going"
2019-05-15T11:24:34 < R2COM> write email with bullets of what was done so far
2019-05-15T11:24:42 < R2COM> always works for delayed shit
2019-05-15T11:25:02 < jadew> * I've set things up, so I can work on it.
2019-05-15T11:25:11 < jadew> * Figured out the problem.
2019-05-15T11:25:19 < jadew> * Figured out what I have to do to fix it.
2019-05-15T11:25:30 < jadew> * Went on did other shit.
2019-05-15T11:25:33 < R2COM> no you suck at it
2019-05-15T11:25:45 < R2COM> not figured out, but did something
2019-05-15T11:25:48 < R2COM> use future time
2019-05-15T11:26:13 < R2COM> i mean use future actions as if its done
2019-05-15T11:26:14 < jadew> Analyzed the codebase and mapped the problem across it.
2019-05-15T11:26:23 < jadew> not like that?
2019-05-15T11:26:37 < R2COM> no. if you told me something like that id figure out you didnt do a shit
2019-05-15T11:27:30 < jadew> I would too
2019-05-15T11:27:51 < R2COM> client for what work? software?
2019-05-15T11:27:57 < jadew> yeah
2019-05-15T11:28:06 < R2COM> for win10 ?
2019-05-15T11:28:08 < R2COM> or?
2019-05-15T11:28:12 < jadew> I have to fix some crap
2019-05-15T11:28:14 < jadew> no, server stuff
2019-05-15T11:28:50 < jadew> worst part is that I haven't slept yet
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2019-05-15T11:29:21 < R2COM> go get some blowjob and have a sleep
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2019-05-15T11:31:09 < jadew> sure, let me text my wife and see if she can leave work
2019-05-15T11:31:42 < R2COM> at night? is she working in a nightclub?
2019-05-15T11:31:53 < jadew> it's 11:30 AM
2019-05-15T11:32:09 < R2COM> well then you have to wait for evening
2019-05-15T11:32:22 < jadew> not a bad idea
2019-05-15T11:32:45 < R2COM> or you can go to online cams 
2019-05-15T11:33:09 < jadew> cams are boring
2019-05-15T11:33:15 < jadew> they drag it out for hours
2019-05-15T11:33:25 < R2COM> what you mean
2019-05-15T11:34:04 < jadew> it doesn't advance fast enough
2019-05-15T11:34:21 < R2COM> not if you donate
2019-05-15T11:34:21 < jadew> I keep getting the urge to skip forward
2019-05-15T11:34:52 < jadew> ah... well, I'm not going to pay to masturbate
2019-05-15T11:35:48 < R2COM> as far as i remember you, you never want to pay for anything
2019-05-15T11:36:10 < jadew> exactly :D
2019-05-15T11:38:05 < jadew> really interesting discussion (at least for the first 50 minutes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBPnjte2UV8
2019-05-15T11:38:26 < R2COM> im not looking at 50 min discussion now
2019-05-15T11:38:31 < R2COM> its my bedtime
2019-05-15T11:39:08 < jadew> that guy paints a very interesting and probable picture about the future of the human race
2019-05-15T11:39:29 < jadew> some of those ideas have crossed my mind too, but he takes them to the next level
2019-05-15T11:39:37 < R2COM> what will happen
2019-05-15T11:40:05 < jadew> DNA manipulation stuff, based on where we are now
2019-05-15T11:40:18 < jadew> apparently we're already at the point where we can do most of what he's talking about
2019-05-15T11:41:27 < jadew> one of the mind blowing things he talks about is how some guy has figured out how to transform any cell into a stem cell, which can then be taken through a process and finally transformed into an egg
2019-05-15T11:41:35 < jadew> so you could take a skin graft
2019-05-15T11:41:50 < jadew> transform thousands or hundreds of thousands of cells into eggs
2019-05-15T11:42:04 < jadew> drop a load of jizz on them and fertilize them all
2019-05-15T11:42:21 < jadew> then sequence the DNA after they develop a bit
2019-05-15T11:42:33 < jadew> and choose the best offspring you want implanted into your spouse
2019-05-15T11:42:41 < R2COM> so you can make someone pregnant with facial?
2019-05-15T11:43:02 < jadew> and they'd be 100% your babies and without DNA alteration (just artificial selection)
2019-05-15T11:43:25 < jadew> you can, but the point is that people could choose whatever attributes they wanted for their kids
2019-05-15T11:43:45 < R2COM> im more interested in transofrmation of conciousness into computer, and then back into grown artificial body, so you can never die
2019-05-15T11:43:50 < jadew> out of 100's of thousands of fertilized eggs, the odds of finding what you want are very high
2019-05-15T11:44:16 < jadew> old idea, but seems very far away
2019-05-15T11:44:24 < jadew> did you watch altered carbon?
2019-05-15T11:44:29 < R2COM> yeah
2019-05-15T11:45:40 < R2COM> think about it, before dongs dies his conciousness transferred to PC and he exists in IRC *forever*
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2019-05-15T12:01:23 < jly> hokay
2019-05-15T12:01:51 < jly> post telegram ##stm32 
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2019-05-15T12:59:30 < c10ud> do any of you know on NT51008 where the fuck is the 6/8 bit select pin?
2019-05-15T13:00:22 < c10ud> I have a shitty display that forces 8 bit, I need to find the pin on the 60pin internal connector
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2019-05-15T13:03:59 < Cracki> you mean this? http://www.phoenixdisplay.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/NT51008B.pdf
2019-05-15T13:05:32 < Cracki> wow they even have a table with centroid coordinates
2019-05-15T13:05:55 < Cracki> makes sense I guess, it's not (at all) a standard footprint
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2019-05-15T13:19:11 < englishman> hello innovators
2019-05-15T13:21:00 < Steffanx> Hello Welcome englishman. Hows the day?
2019-05-15T13:21:14 < englishman> it's a beautiful day
2019-05-15T13:21:22 < englishman> how are you?
2019-05-15T13:21:50 < Steffanx> Im ok. The day is good.
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2019-05-15T13:27:00 < c10ud> Cracki, yes, but there's no corrispondence with what I see...fortunately the guy which designed the board put some r0's...trial and error, problem solved, yay
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2019-05-15T14:46:02 < aandrew> I say we make sure the only consciousness transfer devices run Linux... I think that would be troll level 1000000x
2019-05-15T14:46:53 < aandrew> I never understood who pays for cams. that shit is the most idiotic concept to me
2019-05-15T14:49:27 < jadew> me neither
2019-05-15T14:49:40 < jadew> there's got to be some fetish involved there
2019-05-15T14:55:20 < karlp> hrm, have  vmware esxi server that we don't need, and no-one has the usernames passwords for it's admin.
2019-05-15T14:55:28 < karlp> that sounds like it will be pleasant
2019-05-15T14:56:39 < jadew> the rule for servers is usually that if you have physical access to it, you have root
2019-05-15T14:57:05 < jadew> there has to be a procedure to reset the password
2019-05-15T14:57:42 < aandrew> I was just about to say the same thing
2019-05-15T14:57:53 < aandrew> I run esxi but I'm not sure how to recover the password
2019-05-15T14:58:17 < aandrew> karlp: first hit on google seems relevant
2019-05-15T14:58:26 < karlp> yeah, might be time to try that sort of stuff
2019-05-15T14:58:45 < karlp> only need it to try and evaluate a) is this machine even worth keeping and b) erase everything and either bin or sell
2019-05-15T14:58:55 < aandrew> actually nevermind, esxi states "Reinstalling the ESXi host is the only supported way to reset a password on ESXi."
2019-05-15T14:59:03 < aandrew> it doesn't say the only way to reset, just the only supported way
2019-05-15T14:59:12 < aandrew> so I'm still confident you can mount hte drive and reset it
2019-05-15T14:59:48 < aandrew> "In today’s post, I’ll show you how you can use a Live Linux CD/DVD, to change the root password on your ESXi host. "  https://www.altaro.com/vmware/reset-esxi-root-password/
2019-05-15T15:00:04 < aandrew> ESXi saves the root password encrypted in /etc/shadow as is standard with Linux.
2019-05-15T15:00:51 < jadew> karlp, if you're getting paid for this, instead of resetting the password, try bruteforcing it :D
2019-05-15T15:01:19 < jadew> you can then take a long break while "you're working on the password issue"
2019-05-15T15:01:24 < karlp> I'm "getting paid" for it, yes, but why would I want to waste time on garbage like that?
2019-05-15T15:01:47 < karlp> no-one knows the password, resetting is certainly better than bruteforcing
2019-05-15T15:05:52 < karlp> labels on the devices says this is a single socket server, but cpu info and intel docs imply it's got dual sockets.
2019-05-15T15:06:06 < karlp> unless I just can't read this properly.
2019-05-15T15:07:33 < karlp> must be not reading it properly. dell service tag says one socket too
2019-05-15T15:07:41 < jadew> anyone knows what this is? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32965549522.html
2019-05-15T15:09:34 < jadew> it's this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32869525858.html
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2019-05-15T15:10:35 < jadew> kind of like a tag connect
2019-05-15T15:18:30 < karlp> this fucking esxi thing is running a xeon from 2007.
2019-05-15T15:19:13 < jadew> it's probably still pretty good, no?
2019-05-15T15:21:20 < qyx> no.
2019-05-15T15:21:33 < jadew> my CPU was released in 2008 and it's still going strong
2019-05-15T15:21:52 < karlp> looks like they're only selling them on ebay to people who need replacements.
2019-05-15T15:21:59 < karlp> newer generations are cheaper than this one.
2019-05-15T15:22:12 < jadew> and two years ago I retired a server running on a couple of xeons from 2004
2019-05-15T15:22:19 < qyx> yes but 2007 xeon can be used to heat your house probably
2019-05-15T15:22:42 < karlp> it's probably "fine" for doing what it's doing, but it's not doing anything useful, and I'm not sure it's worth _trying_ to make it do anything useful at the new office.
2019-05-15T15:22:43 < jadew> for sure, but it should still be able to run your server for 10 more years
2019-05-15T15:23:02 < karlp> the server it's currently running isn't even used...
2019-05-15T15:23:49 < jadew> karlp, so what's the plan? if there's nothing useful there you toss it or reuse it?
2019-05-15T15:24:23 < karlp> evaluate whether it's worth reuse, then at least basic erase and sell/dump.
2019-05-15T15:24:35 < karlp> probably dump some, maybe keep one.
2019-05-15T15:24:53 < karlp> one of them is a 2011 release cpu, half depth rack, somewhat more modern, 
2019-05-15T15:25:02 < karlp> also the only one running services that are still in use :)
2019-05-15T15:27:12 < jadew> you know what I was thinking... there's enough computing power in a phone these days that you could use it as a desktop PC
2019-05-15T15:27:47 < karlp> you're not the first....
2019-05-15T15:28:19 < BrainDamage> I've been using my phone as a portable desktop since ~8h years
2019-05-15T15:28:33 < BrainDamage> you just need a linux chroot, and run vnc inside
2019-05-15T15:28:36 < jadew> BrainDamage, how?
2019-05-15T15:28:52 < BrainDamage> then you connect to the vnc server from android
2019-05-15T15:29:18 < karlp> that's the other way around.
2019-05-15T15:29:38 < Steffanx> Do you also have a nice keyboard for it BrainDamage?
2019-05-15T15:29:48 < BrainDamage> yes, one tectu is jealous of
2019-05-15T15:29:54 < jadew> heh, yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of running stuff on the phone
2019-05-15T15:30:01 < jadew> BrainDamage, which one?
2019-05-15T15:30:10 < BrainDamage> a very old one, it's not made anymore
2019-05-15T15:30:17  * jadew loves keyboards
2019-05-15T15:30:39 < jadew> need more, what brand?
2019-05-15T15:30:43 < jadew> what does it do?
2019-05-15T15:30:48 < BrainDamage> jadew: I _am_ running stuff on the phone
2019-05-15T15:30:52 < BrainDamage> inside the linux chroot
2019-05-15T15:30:59 < BrainDamage> is just runs side to side with android
2019-05-15T15:31:09 < jadew> ah, got it
2019-05-15T15:31:25 < jadew> now tell me more about that keyboard
2019-05-15T15:31:25 < BrainDamage> but it doesn't have direct access to the hardware
2019-05-15T15:33:01 < BrainDamage> micro innovations mp-0118
2019-05-15T15:33:18 < BrainDamage> folding bluetooth keyb, chicklet keys
2019-05-15T15:33:25 < BrainDamage> uses a single aa battery
2019-05-15T15:33:34 < BrainDamage> looks like this http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/miyam1974/imgs/a/c/ac6008ca.jpg?0546d2c0
2019-05-15T15:33:36 < jadew> looks neat
2019-05-15T15:34:03 < jadew> can you connect a mouse to a phone?
2019-05-15T15:34:16 < BrainDamage> I am already, bluetooth mouse, but you can use usb as well
2019-05-15T15:34:19 < jadew> can android use it?
2019-05-15T15:34:21 < BrainDamage> yes
2019-05-15T15:34:23 < jadew> ah, neat
2019-05-15T15:34:25 < jadew> let me try
2019-05-15T15:34:33 < BrainDamage> altough most things don't make use of the right click
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2019-05-15T15:34:57 < BrainDamage> bluetooth keyb + bluetooth mouse + hdmi cable and you have a portable pc
2019-05-15T15:35:14 < BrainDamage> if the tv supports miracast, I can stream directly wirelessly
2019-05-15T15:36:09 < jadew> this is great
2019-05-15T15:36:14 < jadew> even the windows key works
2019-05-15T15:37:51 < karlp> microusb to hdmi?
2019-05-15T15:38:55 < BrainDamage> yes, it uses mhl standard
2019-05-15T15:39:05 < jadew> this is going to take my imgur sessions, on the toilet, to the next level
2019-05-15T15:39:49 < dongs> mhl is dead
2019-05-15T15:40:02 < dongs> usbc with displayport alt mode or fuck off
2019-05-15T15:40:06 < dongs> that gives you usb3 and dp
2019-05-15T15:40:11 < BrainDamage> my phone doesn't have usbc
2019-05-15T15:40:14 < karlp> show me a tv with dp
2019-05-15T15:40:16 < dongs> yeah, so your phone is trash
2019-05-15T15:40:20 < dongs> karlp: ? tv, whaT?
2019-05-15T15:40:27 < dongs> what does TV have to do with this
2019-05-15T15:40:28 < BrainDamage> it's 5 years old
2019-05-15T15:40:41 < BrainDamage> I don't change my phone every season
2019-05-15T15:40:42 < dongs> i thought hte topic was phone as a shitty lunix desktop
2019-05-15T15:40:48 < BrainDamage> yes, and still works
2019-05-15T15:46:27 < englishman> what's a tv
2019-05-15T15:47:10 < BrainDamage> a worse pc monitor with a tuner and spyware installed
2019-05-15T15:47:17 < englishman> gay
2019-05-15T15:47:31 < englishman> is it those things PlayStation used to be plugged into? before capture cards
2019-05-15T16:35:46 < Thorn> Starlink mission T - 13 h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT366GiQkP0
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2019-05-15T17:39:20 < Thorn> is DW01 a clone of S-8261?
2019-05-15T17:50:51 < kakimir> zyp: you know why your electric thing won't be allowed to tow?
2019-05-15T17:51:19 < kakimir> most likelly 12degree gradient test with full mass
2019-05-15T17:55:53 < zyp> kakimir, hmm?
2019-05-15T18:03:35 < kakimir> it has to have enought torque to pull from standstill with full mass to 12 degree gradient
2019-05-15T18:04:00 < kakimir> car manufs are like meh
2019-05-15T18:06:27 < kakimir> so it's down to inverter to push enough amps to motor
2019-05-15T18:07:48 < kakimir> more amps that are required for anything else
2019-05-15T18:09:53 < zyp> you know electric cars generally have more torque than ICE cars? :p
2019-05-15T18:12:56 < zyp> power is torque * rpm, i.e. torque = power / rpm
2019-05-15T18:13:12 < zyp> and the inverter kan deliver 85kW of power either way
2019-05-15T18:13:40 < zyp> which translates to a lot of torque from standstill
2019-05-15T18:14:01 < zyp> unlike an ICE that needs to rev up to hit max power
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2019-05-15T18:15:36 < kakimir> well electric cars that have 600kw of power have a lot of torque
2019-05-15T18:16:17 < zyp> that's not my point
2019-05-15T18:16:43 < kakimir> how many newtons pull force your car has?
2019-05-15T18:16:48 < kakimir> from standstill
2019-05-15T18:17:00 < zyp> my point is that my 85kW electric car will have more torque than any 85kW ICE
2019-05-15T18:17:20 < kakimir> true
2019-05-15T18:17:48 < kakimir> waitaminute
2019-05-15T18:18:20 < kakimir> you know
2019-05-15T18:18:25 < kakimir> untrue
2019-05-15T18:19:06 < kakimir> you can make such gearing to ICE car
2019-05-15T18:19:10 < kakimir> or anything
2019-05-15T18:19:13 < zyp> well, if you wanna be pedantic, sure
2019-05-15T18:19:33 < kakimir> that will have more torque on driving wheels
2019-05-15T18:19:39 < zyp> and of course the electric car won't be making full power at standstill either, the torque would rip shit apart
2019-05-15T18:20:42 < kakimir> it would rip laws of physics into shit if it produced power at standstill
2019-05-15T18:21:24 < zyp> so anyway, what's typical torque for a 85kW ICE?
2019-05-15T18:22:06 < kakimir> we don't have enough data to determine that
2019-05-15T18:22:58 < zyp> apparently the spec for my old car (volvo 240, B230F LH 2.4) was 116hp/185Nm
2019-05-15T18:23:05 < kakimir> have you seen any specs of motor and drivetrain?
2019-05-15T18:23:17 < zyp> the spec for my current car (first gen e-golf) is 85kW/270Nm
2019-05-15T18:23:35 < zyp> 85kW = 116hp, so that makes for an easy comparison
2019-05-15T18:23:39 < kakimir> so 270Nm at standstill
2019-05-15T18:23:43 < zyp> yes
2019-05-15T18:23:47 < kakimir> do you know gear ratio?
2019-05-15T18:24:14 < zyp> no, why does it matter? aren't we talking torque to the wheels?
2019-05-15T18:24:38 < kakimir> is that torque of motor or on wheels?
2019-05-15T18:25:02 < zyp> I thought it was to the wheels, but I might be mistaken
2019-05-15T18:26:09 < kakimir> what is your tyre size?
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2019-05-15T18:29:32 < zyp> ah, it's 270 on the engine, naturally
2019-05-15T18:30:02 < zyp> gear ratios are 1/2.7 and 1/3.61
2019-05-15T18:30:08 < zyp> ref. https://newspress-vwusamedia.s3.amazonaws.com/documents%2Foriginal%2F6355-54576941755ef2e1318cb8.pdf
2019-05-15T18:30:26 < zyp> I guess this is useful for comparison:
2019-05-15T18:30:27 < zyp> https://newspress-vwusamedia.s3.amazonaws.com/documents%2Foriginal%2F6388-878558393566f0c9b6a9ce.pdf
2019-05-15T18:32:06 < zyp> going by that, the ICEs are geared a bit lower, so I guess they'll have a bit higher effective torque
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2019-05-15T18:32:40 < zyp> if I'm looking at this right
2019-05-15T18:33:23 < zyp> a bit higher effective torque, but like 50% higher power :p
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2019-05-15T18:37:07 < kakimir> your tyre diameter is 632mm
2019-05-15T18:39:03 < kakimir> total drive ratio is 1/9,747
2019-05-15T18:40:04 < kakimir> would give 2600Nm on wheels.. sounds more like it
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2019-05-15T18:41:31 < kakimir> Let's say car has pull force of 7800N
2019-05-15T18:43:08 < kakimir> then total mass of 2750kg with 750kg trailer
2019-05-15T18:46:56 < kakimir> sin 12degrees is 0.2 and hmm it should only take 5500N to get that thing moving forward from standstill at 12degree gradient climb
2019-05-15T18:50:54 < kakimir> maybe it isn't that then
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2019-05-15T18:51:24 < kakimir> or 270Nm cannot be archived at all times
2019-05-15T18:52:47 < kakimir> or they concidered there is not enough margin in performance in this test or in some other cases
2019-05-15T18:55:06 < zyp> I don't think there's any technical reason it can't tow, I believe they just haven't bothered certifying it to
2019-05-15T18:55:45 < karlp> it's somewhat curious that ~all evs ban towing, but ~no ICE cars.
2019-05-15T18:55:56 < karlp> I mean, I know the smart cars weren't allowed to tow, but...
2019-05-15T18:57:12 < kakimir> it just breaks the equation to tow a box behind the car
2019-05-15T18:57:30 < zyp> it's probably a range/usefulness consideration
2019-05-15T18:58:16 < zyp> with the range already being short, if hooking a trailer to it halves it, how much use would people get out of it?
2019-05-15T18:58:55 < zyp> (IMO quite a lot, I've got a sand/stone dealer like five minutes away, and I'd prefer not having to pay for getting it delivered)
2019-05-15T19:00:49 < kakimir> get summer ice
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2019-05-15T19:01:58 < kakimir> does all the folks drive model s there?
2019-05-15T19:02:36 < upgrdman> how to old a soldering iron:
2019-05-15T19:02:36 < upgrdman> https://i1.wp.com/makezine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/stock-photo-beautiful-woman-repair-soldering-a-printed-circuit-board-204001492.jpg?resize=620%2C1004&ssl=1
2019-05-15T19:02:36 < zyp> I thought about getting an old transporter pickup or some shit, like this: https://www.finn.no/car/used/ad.html?finnkode=143995193
2019-05-15T19:03:15 < kakimir> yes
2019-05-15T19:03:17 < kakimir> rustbox
2019-05-15T19:03:25 < ds2> maybe towing screws up regen braking?
2019-05-15T19:03:35 < karlp> upgrdman:you're about 2 years late to the party...
2019-05-15T19:03:40 < karlp> there's a whole series
2019-05-15T19:03:45 < upgrdman> k
2019-05-15T19:03:46 < upgrdman> :(
2019-05-15T19:04:09 < kakimir> zyp: it has low tax as it's utility vehicle?
2019-05-15T19:04:16 < zyp> kakimir, yeah, I just figured I could buy some cheap shit that's good for another year before next inspection or something, and then rent it out when I don't use it
2019-05-15T19:04:27 < zyp> don't think there's a difference
2019-05-15T19:04:31 < karlp> upgrdman: some more https://www.boredpanda.com/soldering-iron-stock-image-fails/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic
2019-05-15T19:04:58 < karlp> upgrdman: some more https://www.boredpanda.com/soldering-iron-stock-image-fails/?utm_source=hashhashstm32fo3vah try that one instead...
2019-05-15T19:05:48 < zyp> I looked at a different one that got sold a few weeks ago, and I figured that if I could rent it out a couple of days a month, it'd pay itself off before it had to go to inspection next spring
2019-05-15T19:06:08 < zyp> and at that point I could either maintain it or throw it away, whichever ended up being cheaper :p
2019-05-15T19:06:43 < zyp> but I don't have money to put into shitty cars at the moment, even if I could get it back by next year
2019-05-15T19:07:12 < karlp> or https://imgur.com/gallery/OQndy or ... 
2019-05-15T19:07:40 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/3vzagHa.jpg this one is ok
2019-05-15T19:07:51 < dongs> i mean, at least not holding it by the hot part
2019-05-15T19:07:58 < dongs> and i spot a retarduino
2019-05-15T19:08:00 < dongs> not a fucking PC motherboard
2019-05-15T19:08:15 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/fC1jLkt.jpg aahahha
2019-05-15T19:08:18 < dongs> sodimm into PCIe slot
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2019-05-15T19:09:37 < karlp> a few more here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/stock-electronic-image-fails/25/
2019-05-15T19:10:05 < dongs> anyway i dont see anthing obviosuly wrong with the 1st pic i linked
2019-05-15T19:10:22 < dongs> it looks like some shitty perfboard and its held in place by helpinghands or wahtever.
2019-05-15T19:10:48 < dongs> looks like a retarduino protoshield type thing
2019-05-15T19:10:58 < dongs> there's no part that is getting soldered
2019-05-15T19:10:59 < karlp> no, but I wasnt' goign to link to them one by one...
2019-05-15T19:11:38 < karlp> this is more your style eprhaps... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/stock-electronic-image-fails/?action=dlattach;attach=166586;image
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2019-05-15T19:16:22 < sync> zyp: you want a T4 with the 2.5tdi
2019-05-15T19:16:34 < sync> made after 2000
2019-05-15T19:18:04 < zyp> if I'm buying a cheap throwaway car, I don't really care too much about what engine and shit it comes with as long as it runs
2019-05-15T19:18:07 < zyp> :p
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2019-05-15T19:19:36 < sync> you do, because you want to rent it out
2019-05-15T19:19:47 < zyp> and?
2019-05-15T19:19:51 < sync> and the 2.5tdi is indestructible and actually gets the thing moving
2019-05-15T19:20:12 < zyp> if I were looking to rent something like this, I wouldn't care either, as long as I found someting cheap that did what I wanted it to
2019-05-15T19:20:58 < sync> yes, but the 2.4D doesn't do what you want
2019-05-15T19:21:04 < sync> https://www.finn.no/car/used/ad.html?finnkode=147246973 that's a good lad
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2019-05-15T19:21:22 < sync> a tad rusty but the sill only costs 5€ per side
2019-05-15T19:25:57 < zyp> hasn't been inspected since 2016, been without license plates for over a year, and clutch is broken :p
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2019-05-15T19:28:19 < karlp> and I dont' think zyp intends on become a one person rental company
2019-05-15T19:28:40 < sync> sure but for 550€ it's a good lad
2019-05-15T19:28:49 < karlp> and where the fuck do you get car parts for 5€?
2019-05-15T19:28:50 < sync> replacing the clutch is relatively easy
2019-05-15T19:28:52 < karlp> sure as fuck not norway.
2019-05-15T19:29:03 < karlp> you're way otu in the woods man.
2019-05-15T19:29:13 < sync> I was very suprised, but I got two sills for my T4 for 9.90€
2019-05-15T19:29:21 < karlp> he doesn't want to buy a project car.
2019-05-15T19:29:31 < karlp> he wants a trailer.
2019-05-15T19:29:45 < sync> yeah but why buy a trailer when you can have a t4
2019-05-15T19:29:55  * karlp alt-tabs away from insanity
2019-05-15T19:32:39 < sync> what seems to be the issue karlp?
2019-05-15T19:32:57 < sync> also, the sill got more expensive, it's not 6.8€ :D https://www.ebay.de/itm/192070961157
2019-05-15T19:33:03 < sync> ~now
2019-05-15T19:39:38 < sync> zyp: I think the reason is the range, because the regular golf can tow acceptably well
2019-05-15T19:40:09 < zyp> yeah
2019-05-15T19:40:29 < zyp> but I don't care about that, I don't need to tow shit across the country
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2019-05-15T21:25:46 < kakimir> hmm about to get biggest purchase from ebay yet
2019-05-15T21:27:03 < kakimir> 1100eur
2019-05-15T21:27:33 < kakimir> imma bit nervous
2019-05-15T21:30:41 < Steffanx> what did you order? Potbox?
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2019-05-15T21:33:51 < kakimir> carbox
2019-05-15T21:34:33 < Steffanx> Whats a carbox
2019-05-15T21:34:34 < kakimir> murican cars have interesting electrical system
2019-05-15T21:35:00 < kakimir> box to my dodge ram
2019-05-15T21:37:08 < kakimir> ebay is weird
2019-05-15T21:37:18 < kakimir> I can by shit that costs 1000eur
2019-05-15T21:37:26 < kakimir> but when I try to leave feedback
2019-05-15T21:37:40 < kakimir> it's time to check you remember your ebay password
2019-05-15T21:47:17 < Steffanx> :)
2019-05-15T21:48:46 < Steffanx> Is kaalib on github yet karlp?
2019-05-15T21:48:49 < Steffanx> *kakimir
2019-05-15T21:50:48 < kakimir> nope
2019-05-15T21:59:22 < zyp> now you're making me wonder what my most expensive ebay purchase was
2019-05-15T22:01:38 < zyp> I paid just under $600 for the rack cabinet I bought last year
2019-05-15T22:02:25 < zyp> and at the moment I can't recall any more expensive purchases
2019-05-15T22:04:02 < englishman> looks like eBay doesn't keep purchase history back to 2002
2019-05-15T22:04:04 < englishman> gay
2019-05-15T22:04:09 < englishman> Amazon does
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2019-05-15T22:07:31 < kakimir> before this rigol was maybe the most expensive
2019-05-15T22:16:48 < zyp> other expensive stuff I've bought is the rack enclosure for the server and the HBA
2019-05-15T22:16:53 < zyp> but they were both less than $600
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2019-05-15T23:36:34 < englishman> this advanced altidumb course turned into basic bitch shit
2019-05-15T23:42:31 < Steffanx> Will you share your certificate with us?
2019-05-15T23:45:44 < englishman> I don't even get one, the guy who didn't do shit gets one
2019-05-15T23:45:53 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@94.15.80.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-05-15T23:47:07 < Steffanx> Whaat? Ask stvn for a copy.
2019-05-15T23:48:13 < kakimir> have you heard of Hive?
2019-05-15T23:48:58 < kakimir> or "School 42"
2019-05-15T23:49:57 < Steffanx> Id ask Alice. She knows all about the hive
2019-05-15T23:54:34 < specing> zyp: I could never justify spending nearly that much on an enclosure
2019-05-15T23:54:35 < Steffanx> Did that make sense to you kakimi
2019-05-15T23:54:50 < specing> in fact, I've been recycling a pentium 3 enclosure for 2 decades now
2019-05-15T23:55:01 < Steffanx> Pentium 3 -_-
2019-05-15T23:55:24 < Steffanx> Do you also still use your CRTs?
2019-05-15T23:55:28 < specing> no
2019-05-15T23:56:15 < Steffanx> 14" lcd?
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--- Day changed Thu May 16 2019
2019-05-16T00:02:44 < zyp> specing, not enclosure, the rack cabinet itself
2019-05-16T00:03:36 < specing> Steffanx: 24" ips
2019-05-16T00:03:44 < specing> Steffanx: 1920x1200 too
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2019-05-16T00:04:32 < zyp> specing, I agree $600 was a bit expensive, but damn worth it: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/COAii.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ovJMD.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/IO2dW.jpg
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2019-05-16T00:14:25 < jly> good morning
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2019-05-16T00:21:00 < Steffanx> jly we need copy of your altium crtfct
2019-05-16T00:21:32 < jly> loicence?
2019-05-16T00:21:43 < jly> i'd have to look in my emails
2019-05-16T00:21:46 < Steffanx> No crtficate
2019-05-16T00:22:14 < jly> what is crt
2019-05-16T00:22:28 < jly> is that jpa's other nick?
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2019-05-16T00:25:41 < jly> hello mtrx
2019-05-16T00:26:37 < jly> I'm looking in my emls for the crtificate
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2019-05-16T01:52:46 < karlp> Steffanx: missed it?
2019-05-16T01:54:20 < BrainDamage> https://github.com/Drewsif/wipedicks
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2019-05-16T01:58:06  * karlp laughs
2019-05-16T01:58:09 < karlp> taht's awesome
2019-05-16T01:59:46 < englishman> wow
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2019-05-16T02:17:28 < Thorn> Starlink mission T - 3 h 15 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT366GiQkP0
2019-05-16T02:17:57 < catphish> i'm sure there's a perfectly good explanation for this https://i.imgur.com/4ALxEtP.png
2019-05-16T02:19:08 < catphish> oh its a voltage regulator
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2019-05-16T03:36:35 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/821x09P.jpg
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2019-05-16T04:47:46 < catphish> cool poster
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2019-05-16T05:06:26 < Thorn> 30 min delay
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2019-05-16T05:10:51 < bitmask> hi!!!
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2019-05-16T05:19:40 < rajkosto> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/292727720876703744/578406102765666304/unknown.png
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2019-05-16T05:46:13 < Thorn> stream is live
2019-05-16T05:47:30 < Thorn> scrubbed till tomorrow
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2019-05-16T05:57:34 < englishman> rip, laggy and expensive musknet
2019-05-16T06:07:15 < Thorn> Putin seems to disagree with you. he already banned imports of ground equipment
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2019-05-16T07:32:32 < Thorn> https://github.com/S-March/smarchWatch_PUBLIC
2019-05-16T07:34:33 < dongs> wat
2019-05-16T07:34:53 < dongs> what chink nonnsense mcu is that
2019-05-16T07:35:24 < Thorn> https://ru.mouser.com/new/dialog-semiconductor/dialog-da14682-da14683/
2019-05-16T07:35:59 < Thorn> SO8 flash looks huge on that pcb lol
2019-05-16T07:36:57 < dongs> where is teh screen or whatever
2019-05-16T07:37:18 < dongs> oic some tft display thing
2019-05-16T07:37:31 < dongs> 10k i2c pullups to battery, classy
2019-05-16T07:37:59 < dongs> does that diablog shit have a built in dc/dc or something
2019-05-16T07:38:06 < Thorn> yes
2019-05-16T07:38:24 < Thorn> also 8 MB flash in one of the variants(!)
2019-05-16T07:38:32 < Thorn> and 96 MHz core freq
2019-05-16T07:38:46 < dongs> mbyte or mbit?
2019-05-16T07:39:12 < Thorn> nope probably mbit
2019-05-16T07:39:54 < dongs> ah dialog-shit page says mbit yea
2019-05-16T07:41:08 < Thorn> this may be the display https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SHARP-3-9-inch-TFT-LCD-Screen-with-Touch-Panel-LQ039Q2DS54-240-RGB-160/1962405888.html
2019-05-16T07:47:06 < dongs> no
2019-05-16T07:47:10 < dongs> shithub links to the displays
2019-05-16T07:47:23 < dongs> its got an all-metal back
2019-05-16T07:47:28 < dongs> with teardrop shape
2019-05-16T07:47:57 < dongs> https://m.dhgate.com/product/aml130a2402-1-3-240-240-inch-round-tft-lcd/413657684.html?invitorid=3uqYbq50
2019-05-16T07:47:59 < Thorn> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/0-69-inch-8PIN-White-OLED-Screen-SSD1306-Drive-IC-96-16-IIC-Interface/32624852799.html ?
2019-05-16T07:48:06 < dongs> 1.3"
2019-05-16T07:48:27 < Thorn> listing says 1.3
2019-05-16T07:48:47 < dongs> looks similar but his shit doesnt haev a touchscreen
2019-05-16T07:49:12 < dongs> AML130A2402A
2019-05-16T07:49:31 < dongs> hmm
2019-05-16T07:49:35 < dongs> some of those look different
2019-05-16T07:49:36 < dongs> oh well nodiea
2019-05-16T07:52:43 < Thorn> lol there's already a pull requests removing a goto
2019-05-16T07:52:44 < Thorn> >programmers
2019-05-16T08:00:21 < dongs> https://github.com/S-March/smarchWatch_PUBLIC/blob/master/Software/smarchWatch_DA14683/DA1468x_SDK_1.0.14.1081/DA1468x_DA15xxx_SDK_1.0.14.1081/projects/dk_apps/ble_profiles/smarchWatch/displayFonts.c
2019-05-16T08:00:25 < dongs> ???????????????????????????????????
2019-05-16T08:00:26 < dongs> what in the actual fuck
2019-05-16T08:00:31 < Thorn> https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/smarchWatch.html
2019-05-16T08:02:14 < fenugrec> taking boilerplate to a whole new level
2019-05-16T08:02:54 < Thorn> freetype for the iot generation
2019-05-16T08:08:44 < Thorn> lcsc even has DA14580
2019-05-16T08:08:52 < Thorn> previous generation probably
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2019-05-16T08:22:45 < dongs> BLE 4.2 yeah
2019-05-16T08:25:35 < dongs> https://www.mouser.com/images/dialogsemi/lrg/DA14680_01F08A92_SPL.jpg nice footprint
2019-05-16T08:25:39 < dongs> ghettolga
2019-05-16T08:27:43 < Thorn> not even staggered
2019-05-16T08:27:54 < dongs> yea that is kinda gay
2019-05-16T08:28:00 < dongs> like those cheap chink wifi SoCs are staggered
2019-05-16T08:28:04 < dongs> at least not too aids to route
2019-05-16T08:28:07 < dongs> but that looks aids
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2019-05-16T09:44:43 < ds2> blah... nrf better
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2019-05-16T09:59:43 < Thorn> nordick sdk still gives me nightmares
2019-05-16T09:59:56 < Thorn> (no idea if diablog is any better)
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2019-05-16T10:29:11 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRH8iOFgfx4
2019-05-16T10:43:27 < Thorn> how much for the anus of steel
2019-05-16T10:44:51 < Steffanx> Fancy
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2019-05-16T10:46:52 < Steffanx> Only like 125 dollar? (based  on euro price with yankee correction)
2019-05-16T10:47:05 < jly> tokyomk6
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2019-05-16T11:30:12 < jly> welcome to australia, handjobs come with every massage
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2019-05-16T11:37:59 < dongs> australia, the land of cunts
2019-05-16T11:38:05 < jly> yes
2019-05-16T11:38:20 < jly> that's what it says on the travel brochure yeah?
2019-05-16T11:38:57 < jly> to this day I can't work out why the fuck people come over to live here.
2019-05-16T11:50:17 < jadew> dongs, I wonder how the adjustment process works
2019-05-16T11:50:59 < jadew> I've seen those tools too and I sort of want one, but I'm a bit weary of cable tools that require adjustments
2019-05-16T11:51:56 < jadew> unless they're self adjusting, but I don't know how that would work
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2019-05-16T14:32:00 < aandrew> dongs: nordic nrf52 has stupid footprints like that too
2019-05-16T14:32:21 < aandrew> Thorn: what's wrong with nordic's sdk?
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2019-05-16T15:27:57 < Steffanx> The online docs are (or were) fucking awful
2019-05-16T15:29:52 < englishman> how so
2019-05-16T15:29:58 < englishman> except when the site was down of course
2019-05-16T15:32:47 < Steffanx> I always ended up in an endless loop browsing through the doc pages. 
2019-05-16T15:33:26 < Steffanx> But i didnt use keil, so perhaps that was the issue
2019-05-16T15:35:46 < Steffanx> Ill use esp next time
2019-05-16T15:51:20 < invzim> anyone tried the cube-ide or whatever it's called?
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2019-05-16T16:25:27 < Steffanx> Someone here did. Might have been mr mawk 
2019-05-16T16:28:44 < aandrew> oh god the docs
2019-05-16T16:28:47 < aandrew> they USED to be useful
2019-05-16T16:29:02 < aandrew> now they went with their new devzone where they tried to integrate public and private support and it's just godawful now
2019-05-16T16:29:13 < aandrew> and the doc site is "upgraded" too to be all web 2.0 and it sucks balls
2019-05-16T16:29:18 < aandrew> you're absolutley right about docu being shit
2019-05-16T16:29:24 < Steffanx> Lolz
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2019-05-16T16:55:51 < englishman> Thorn: when is the next attempt?
2019-05-16T16:56:23 < Thorn> 24 hrs after
2019-05-16T16:56:45 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfbIMknNWks
2019-05-16T16:57:21 < englishman> looks like tonight
2019-05-16T16:57:22 < englishman> okey
2019-05-16T16:58:49 < Thorn> >An updated weather forecast from the U.S. Air Force's 45th Weather Squadron predicts a 90 percent chance of good conditions for Thursday night's Falcon 9 launch attempt.
2019-05-16T16:59:36 < mawk> yes invzim 
2019-05-16T16:59:54 < mawk> if you used truestudio it's the same thing probably
2019-05-16T17:00:01 < mawk> but now it's free
2019-05-16T17:01:51 < mawk> and they put cubemx inside it as well
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2019-05-16T17:27:16 < Cracki> it's bitch-about-docs time? hell yeah
2019-05-16T17:36:09 < Steffanx> Rage o'clock.
2019-05-16T17:54:44 < jadew> it's trashy balkanic music o'clock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfbE4gW2Mfk
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2019-05-16T18:03:35 < Cracki> remove kebab time
2019-05-16T18:03:59 < Cracki> oh, just ass shaking time
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2019-05-16T18:47:38 < Thorn> new j-link works with f407 (unlike the old one) but still doesn't work with f401
2019-05-16T18:48:24 < Thorn> this is extremely weird, how can they fuck up the clone such that it only fails with specific MCUs?
2019-05-16T18:48:43 < Thorn> given that the firmware is original
2019-05-16T18:50:11 < qyx> trashy balkanic music reminds me o-zone
2019-05-16T18:50:24 < qyx> jadew: ^
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2019-05-16T18:56:11 < Steffanx> What jewlink is this Thorn? Which version?
2019-05-16T18:57:25 < Thorn> 9.6 (original from authorized aliexpress distributor)
2019-05-16T18:58:45 < Thorn> old one is 9.41
2019-05-16T19:00:11 < Steffanx> I have 9.6 too iirc. Never had issues, but i have no f401 to try. Only f412
2019-05-16T19:00:16 < jadew> qyx, it qualifies, yeah
2019-05-16T19:00:20 < Steffanx> Also from the alie
2019-05-16T19:01:46 < jadew> anyone know of a chinese forwarding service, where you can send multiple orders there and then they send it to you via DHL?
2019-05-16T19:02:24 < jadew> waiting times for crap from china has become unacceptable
2019-05-16T19:02:35 < jadew> 2 months+
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2019-05-16T19:08:39 < jadew> lol, found one that has this optional services: "remove invoices" and "add your invoice/stickers to the package"
2019-05-16T19:08:57 < jadew> *these
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2019-05-16T21:17:29 < englishman> altidumb is crashing non stop for the advanced course presenter
2019-05-16T21:18:10 < qyx> quality software
2019-05-16T21:18:52 < englishman> he can't present the demo
2019-05-16T21:33:04 < mawk> if I do a pcb for my station I need to be able to reuse it, I don't need it in 5 copies; so I need to be able to reuse it
2019-05-16T21:33:18 < mawk> I'd throw some usb in it
2019-05-16T21:33:42 < mawk> and expose all of the pins with 1.27mm spacing
2019-05-16T21:34:02 < mawk> what is the name of the tools I need to make my own 1.27mm to 2.54mm dupont cables and connectors and everything ?
2019-05-16T21:34:07 < mawk> it's just named crimping ?
2019-05-16T21:34:22 < englishman> just buy jumpers
2019-05-16T21:34:29 < englishman> crimping is for fools
2019-05-16T21:34:44 < mawk> you have 1.27mm to 2.54mm jumpers ?
2019-05-16T21:35:15 < mawk> I remember when I was looking for cortex debug header cable I didn't find anything with the proper spacing and number of rows and columns
2019-05-16T21:35:20 < mawk> there are just too many combinations
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2019-05-16T21:45:44 < englishman> buy the ends and solder them
2019-05-16T21:46:13 < mawk> but that's ugly
2019-05-16T21:46:21 < mawk> I have to put shrink tube and everything
2019-05-16T21:46:26 < mawk> the colors don't match
2019-05-16T21:46:54 < englishman> ok
2019-05-16T21:47:24 < englishman> sounds like you want a crimping project not a useful project
2019-05-16T21:47:27 < englishman> so do as you like
2019-05-16T21:47:48 < mawk> I do it like that already
2019-05-16T21:48:00 < mawk> then people said just crimp your cables
2019-05-16T21:50:22 < mawk> then an english man said the opposite
2019-05-16T21:54:41 < Steffanx> when everyone did the way englishman wants it to be it would be a very boring world mawk ;)
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2019-05-16T22:03:42 < Steffanx> Whats wrong with 2.54mm headers mawk? Dont have the space?
2019-05-16T22:04:11 < Steffanx> if you want a devboard arent random nucleos much cheaper? :D
2019-05-16T22:05:30 < specing> mawk: I heard the engineer-09 is good; but I've not yet decided myself
2019-05-16T22:09:21 < mawk> they don't have usb Steffanx 
2019-05-16T22:09:36 < mawk> but yeah the small nucleos could work
2019-05-16T22:09:51 < mawk> but they're big compared to the size of the bare chip, it's what I don't like
2019-05-16T22:10:02 < mawk> the smaller the board, the more potential uses it have
2019-05-16T22:11:45 < specing> mawk: so bluepills?
2019-05-16T22:11:59 < mawk> they're the same size as the small nucleos
2019-05-16T22:12:02 < mawk> a bit bigger even
2019-05-16T22:12:26 < mawk> but the usb connector is very low quality on the bluepills, also the D+ pullup resistor has a very wrong value
2019-05-16T22:12:34 < mawk> so it doesn't work on every computer out there
2019-05-16T22:12:50 < mawk> and it's an old chip on the blue pills, stm32f103c8
2019-05-16T22:13:08 < mawk> also Steffanx who needs reasons, it's just cool to do
2019-05-16T22:21:48 < Steffanx> Yes, best is when you ask A and people tell you to go for Z.
2019-05-16T22:24:02 < Cracki> mawk, there are 20-pin jlink to cortex m boards+cables on aliex, if you need that?
2019-05-16T22:24:18 < mawk> hmm why not
2019-05-16T22:24:23 < mawk> I had in mind the 10 pins version
2019-05-16T22:24:29 < mawk> without trace stuff
2019-05-16T22:24:32 < Cracki> yes 10 pin cortex m header
2019-05-16T22:24:42 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-16T22:24:55 < Cracki> lemme find the product
2019-05-16T22:25:03 < Cracki> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Adapter-Board-For-20P-2-54-mm-JTAG-to-10P-2-0mm-1-27mm-SWD-Interface/32924937649.html
2019-05-16T22:25:07 < mawk> thanks
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2019-05-16T22:25:19 < Cracki> not sure who needs the 2.0? mm spacing thing but eh
2019-05-16T22:25:49 < Cracki> cables are a little short but nothing prevents you from ordering longer 1.27mm pitch header ribbon cables
2019-05-16T22:26:13 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-16T22:26:32 < Cracki> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1PCS-1-27MM-pitch-FC-6-8-10-14-16-20-40-50-PIN-30CM-JTAG/32967146013.html
2019-05-16T22:26:37 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2o_Sp2-aBo 5/5 golden youtubes new episode of applied science channel
2019-05-16T22:26:47 < Cracki> might be a little hard to search for, 1.27mm can also be the ribbon pitch
2019-05-16T22:27:11 < Cracki> nice stuff
2019-05-16T22:27:28 < Cracki> I remember watching videos on that stuff, it's probably the same dude
2019-05-16T22:29:09 < kakimir> this dude makes only 5/5 content
2019-05-16T22:30:13 < Cracki> dude prints cases in a resin UV printer! that must have taken a while
2019-05-16T22:33:19 < kakimir> resin is the way
2019-05-16T22:33:35 < kakimir> unless quick and crappy will do
2019-05-16T22:34:44 < Cracki> indeed
2019-05-16T22:34:53 < Cracki> and dlp arrays for exposure are getting higher res by the year
2019-05-16T22:47:40 < englishman> Steffanx: bullshit everyone would be happy because all the work would be done
2019-05-16T22:48:10 < Steffanx> 7Billion mailmen, lol. :P
2019-05-16T22:48:32 < englishman> that leaves 1 billion innovators
2019-05-16T22:48:41 < Steffanx> oh are we with 8B 
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2019-05-16T22:49:05 < Steffanx> 7.5 ok
2019-05-16T22:49:33 < englishman> dongo has 500 million kids to make up the difference
2019-05-16T22:49:45 < englishman> oh fuckin
2019-05-16T22:49:47 < englishman> dongs
2019-05-16T22:49:55 < englishman> if you drag an altidumb panel
2019-05-16T22:49:59 < englishman> by the titlebar
2019-05-16T22:50:03 < Steffanx> hehe i bet
2019-05-16T22:50:15 < englishman> it does different shit if you drag it by the name and if you drag it by the blank space
2019-05-16T22:50:30 < Steffanx> is this the altidongs 19 or .. ?
2019-05-16T22:51:26 < englishman> yes
2019-05-16T22:52:00 < Steffanx> 18 does something else too
2019-05-16T22:52:12 < englishman> how not obvious
2019-05-16T22:52:42 < Steffanx> entire panel vs just the active panel dragging.
2019-05-16T22:53:03 < englishman> yes
2019-05-16T22:53:09 < englishman> amazing
2019-05-16T22:53:23 < englishman> $2k usd for that and the left/right selection thing
2019-05-16T22:53:31 < Steffanx> As if dragging the tab out wasnt enough
2019-05-16T22:53:34 < englishman> worth it imo
2019-05-16T22:54:03 < Steffanx> Yes that feature is cool , wont forget that now.
2019-05-16T22:54:37 < englishman> see it pays to be a ##stm32 irc ee
2019-05-16T22:59:58 < Steffanx> ty
2019-05-16T23:02:56 < englishman> mawk: foobar works gr8 thx
2019-05-16T23:03:30 < qyx> mhm foobar
2019-05-16T23:03:56 < qyx> I should search for some cool nordic metalish kakimusic
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2019-05-16T23:06:00 < Steffanx> should try eurovision 2019 instead :P
2019-05-16T23:09:33 < qyx> pls
2019-05-16T23:09:44 < kakimir> kaki listens only softmetal
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2019-05-16T23:17:50 < englishman> is that the local music programme that lets in just anyone now due to racism
2019-05-16T23:24:54 < Thorn> T - 6 h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfbIMknNWks
2019-05-16T23:26:39 < jadew> I need a lathe or a friend with a lathe
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2019-05-16T23:35:56 < kakimir> englishman: it is ballads, whiney pop, few hotties showing some skin, at least one cowboy that is born and bred european, gay people, fake gay people, a ton of black background dancers are a requirement, women with beards, weltschmerz, pyrotechnics and props, east europe / balkan voting 100% politically and not really participating with relatable songs or ever in English, israel and australia
2019-05-16T23:43:15 < kakimir> and interesting is that britts could absolutely kill it with their talents any time but they decide to do something medicre that everyone will forget
2019-05-16T23:46:41 < jadew> I don't follow it but one year I got into a discussion with some friends that do and I ended up watching the competing songs
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2019-05-16T23:47:15 < jadew> it was obvious to me which one is going to win
2019-05-16T23:47:20 < jadew> and I was right
2019-05-16T23:47:52 < jadew> this was the one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QSgNM9yNjo
2019-05-16T23:49:03 < kakimir> oh yes
2019-05-16T23:49:28 -!- tprrt [~tprrt@upc31-1-78-208-110-13.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2019-05-16T23:50:46 < jadew> then I think a video got leaked of that chick getting pounded in a pool
2019-05-16T23:51:42 < kakimir> :o
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2019-05-16T23:55:30 < jadew> found this: https://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ph58b188f868bec
2019-05-16T23:56:10 < kakimir> jeez jadew
2019-05-16T23:56:36 < jadew> und this: https://www.reddit.com/r/de/comments/c0ikh/lena_meyerlandrut_nackt_nsfw/
2019-05-16T23:56:57 < Cracki> they all look like boxxy
2019-05-16T23:57:04 < jadew> lol Cracki 
2019-05-16T23:57:39 < Cracki> to gays, all women look like either your sister, your mother, or your grandma
2019-05-16T23:58:43 < jadew> you know who looks like boxxy? that shoeonhead chick from youtube
2019-05-16T23:58:52 < Cracki> srsly nnnipples are a problem these days? why don't we make all them feeeemales wear garbage bags
2019-05-16T23:58:53 < jadew> and I think it's deliberate
2019-05-16T23:59:26 < jadew> Cracki, I she was having sex
2019-05-16T23:59:31 < Cracki> let's make up some rules of acquisition
2019-05-16T23:59:32 < jadew> but neither of those are problems for me
--- Day changed Fri May 17 2019
2019-05-17T00:00:15 < jadew> crap, it's midnight
2019-05-17T00:00:33 < jadew> long night ahead, I have to work and I have negative motivation for getting this done
2019-05-17T00:00:34 < Cracki> you will zombie around until spacex launch
2019-05-17T00:00:41 < Cracki> getting what done
2019-05-17T00:00:55 < jadew> I have to do some work for a client and I don't want to
2019-05-17T00:00:55 < kakimir> demotivation!
2019-05-17T00:01:10 < Cracki> boss had some client's work for me today as well
2019-05-17T00:01:15 < jadew> maybe a demotivational would work because - * - = +?
2019-05-17T00:01:21 < jadew> wait
2019-05-17T00:01:23 < kakimir> yes
2019-05-17T00:01:37 < jadew> it's - -
2019-05-17T00:01:41 < Cracki> boss makes stepper driver boards (driver IC + fets and shit), and that customer wanted to use them with an arduino due and repetier printer firmware
2019-05-17T00:01:58 < kakimir> have you noticed when you try to motivate yourself - you end up having less motivation
2019-05-17T00:02:04 < Cracki> and the client had no luck getting them to work... it's literally four wires, the rest was taming repetier's settings
2019-05-17T00:02:30 < jadew> I know what the problem was
2019-05-17T00:02:42 < jadew> arduino
2019-05-17T00:02:48 < Cracki> nah, that part works just fine
2019-05-17T00:03:19 < jadew> hah, do you guys remember this song? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qjx8IXkgjE
2019-05-17T00:03:42 < Cracki> repetier has an online config clicker-througher. it's trivial. I only had to disable eeprom because it didn't initialize that, and invert X enable signal, because that's how boss's module likes it
2019-05-17T00:03:57 < jadew> sounds wrong, the one I remember was in russian
2019-05-17T00:04:01 < Cracki> tatu the lessies for fame
2019-05-17T00:04:11 < Cracki> that one isn't the "first"
2019-05-17T00:04:18 < Cracki> all the thigns she said, before that
2019-05-17T00:04:46 < Cracki> cheerleader/catholic school girl outfits, and some water for wet look
2019-05-17T00:04:49 < kakimir> sure thing jadew 
2019-05-17T00:05:20 < jadew> I think this was the one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F-JfWqMG6g
2019-05-17T00:05:24 < Cracki> the arduino due uses a sam3x which is a cortex m3, can't shit on that :>
2019-05-17T00:05:37 < Cracki> yay internment camp feeling
2019-05-17T00:05:53 < Cracki> I wonder when that'll make a comeback
2019-05-17T00:05:57 < jadew> hmm, I think that's "All the things she said" isn't it?
2019-05-17T00:06:15 < Cracki> I said that
2019-05-17T00:06:25 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, but the one I linked
2019-05-17T00:06:28 < Cracki> yes
2019-05-17T00:07:16 < Cracki> you want more russian, try cosmic gate
2019-05-17T00:07:39 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj58nbn35bg
2019-05-17T00:08:19 < Cracki> not actually russian tho
2019-05-17T00:09:29 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNgFZlWCf8Y this is
2019-05-17T00:09:49 < Cracki> press > to party harder
2019-05-17T00:14:21 < jadew> I'm gonna start work now
2019-05-17T00:14:38 < jadew> and play this in the background: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsWndfzuOc4
2019-05-17T00:14:42 < Cracki> don't click this link then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR9H4o-HA3M
2019-05-17T00:14:48 < Cracki> or do
2019-05-17T00:15:05 < Cracki> oh no zizek/peterson how awful
2019-05-17T00:15:21 < jadew> you saw it?
2019-05-17T00:15:23 < Cracki> they're basically on the same side, they just don't know it
2019-05-17T00:15:25 < jadew> bad debade?
2019-05-17T00:15:37 < Cracki> peterson gets rammed hard
2019-05-17T00:15:56 < jadew> really? then it's worth listening to
2019-05-17T00:16:05 < Cracki> by zizek of all people, who's... a real bolshevik, as opposed to peterson who's a wannabe
2019-05-17T00:16:38 < Cracki> it's like sharpiero getting dunked by that british tv dude recently
2019-05-17T00:17:25 < Cracki> haha peterson has to unfold his legs when moderator mentions zizek's two degrees
2019-05-17T00:18:36 < jadew> 4 minutes in and nothing happened yet
2019-05-17T00:18:43 < jadew> everyone is still looking for their seats
2019-05-17T00:18:44 < Cracki> skip to 7 or 10 m
2019-05-17T00:19:09 < Cracki> j/k/l work on youtube, 10 secs. arrow keys are 5 i think
2019-05-17T00:19:30 < jadew> a truly immersive experience
2019-05-17T00:19:41 < jadew> nah, I kinda like the music in the background
2019-05-17T00:19:50 < jadew> it sets the tone for how much work I'm going to do tonight
2019-05-17T00:20:24 < Cracki> if your work were a meal, what would be the equivalent of taking a bite of the meat
2019-05-17T00:20:34 < Cracki> this particular task
2019-05-17T00:20:37 < jadew> eating shit
2019-05-17T00:21:37 < jadew> after this task is done I'll let him know I'm done collaborating with them
2019-05-17T00:21:44 < Cracki> heh
2019-05-17T00:22:13 < jadew> really, they give me the crappiest shit and the things that none of their people can solve
2019-05-17T00:22:36 < jadew> which is even worse, because it takes me minutes to fix their crap, saving them thousands or more
2019-05-17T00:22:48 < jadew> but I get paid in fraction of peanuts for it
2019-05-17T00:22:58 < Cracki> how would they know how long it takes you
2019-05-17T00:23:10 < jadew> shit starts workings
2019-05-17T00:23:29 < Cracki> bill what it's worth
2019-05-17T00:23:50 < jadew> yeah, I can't do that, but that's going to be my proposition for them
2019-05-17T00:23:50 < kakimir> usually companies don't have problem paying stuff
2019-05-17T00:24:00 < jadew> I'll start charging on a per event basis
2019-05-17T00:24:33 < jadew> and I'll raise my rate considerably
2019-05-17T00:24:40 < Cracki> charge for "taking a look" (investigation), for a proposed solution or two, then for a proof of concept, then for the implementation, then ...
2019-05-17T00:25:25 < jadew> Cracki, the investigation is everything
2019-05-17T00:25:28 < Cracki> I really should squeeze boss about how he does it. he reels in some really "helpless" people to put it mildly, but they seem to have money
2019-05-17T00:26:11 < Cracki> so... investigate, take a week of vacation, say it took a week :>
2019-05-17T00:26:15 < kakimir> corporate space quite inefficient
2019-05-17T00:26:38 < jadew> heh, problem is that for this particular client when shit hits the fan, it affects hundreds of businesses
2019-05-17T00:26:47 < Cracki> so you have leverage
2019-05-17T00:27:06 < Cracki> answer/solution only after cash? :P
2019-05-17T00:27:20 < jadew> right, that's another thing that bothers me
2019-05-17T00:27:40 < karlp> kakimir: there's going to be great music on saturday eurovison this year, iceland's in it!
2019-05-17T00:27:44 < karlp> no pop there.
2019-05-17T00:27:49 < Cracki> you're all carrot and no stick
2019-05-17T00:27:55 < jadew> last time I fixed something in under 5 minutes (after the whole system was fucked for almost 2 hours) they asked me what I did - because they do have another dev on the team
2019-05-17T00:28:08 < jadew> so if I told them, they wouldn't even ask me for help next time
2019-05-17T00:28:20 < Cracki> germans have a word for it, Erziehung. can be applied to adults too, operant conditioning and whatnot
2019-05-17T00:28:24 < kakimir> when you understand the weak areas of corporate space you understand what is the "product" you should sell them for whatever price you want and leaving them and you happy
2019-05-17T00:28:43 < Cracki> only answer should be "trade secret"
2019-05-17T00:29:30 < kakimir> jadew: it makes them upset!
2019-05-17T00:29:35 < kakimir> don't do that
2019-05-17T00:29:53 < jadew> kakimir, don't do what? :)
2019-05-17T00:29:53 < Cracki> find the pain point where the price of the solution is just a little less than them having to suffer the consequences of no fix
2019-05-17T00:30:12 < Cracki> say you're done after 5 minutes
2019-05-17T00:30:26 < Cracki> make half a day of it, browse youporn or reddit or something
2019-05-17T00:30:30 < kakimir> make it look like it was trivial problem
2019-05-17T00:31:02 < Cracki> everything is terribly complex and requires the highest degree and years of hard earned experience
2019-05-17T00:31:32 < jadew> kakimir, most of their problems are trivial for me
2019-05-17T00:31:39 < Cracki> it often does... some of my boss's customers would _not_ get by with less than a dumb uni student who has no clue what he's worth
2019-05-17T00:31:41 < jadew> but that means I'm earning close to nothing on them
2019-05-17T00:32:03 < Cracki> these problems aren't trivial to _them_
2019-05-17T00:32:12 < kakimir> the "product" is not the solution for the problem
2019-05-17T00:32:13 < Cracki> the solution must be worth a lot to them
2019-05-17T00:32:23 < jadew> they're not, they'd have full-time employees spend days on stuff sometimes
2019-05-17T00:32:28 < kakimir> it's how you deliver it
2019-05-17T00:32:44 < Cracki> so you bill days of consulting hours for the fix they weren't able to make
2019-05-17T00:33:11 < Cracki> at the very least. or figure out what penalties they'd have to pay if they had to live with the problem indefinitely
2019-05-17T00:33:29 < jadew> Cracki, that's difficult to put into an agreement
2019-05-17T00:33:50 < jadew> what I'll do is charge an event-fee + an hourly rate
2019-05-17T00:33:51 < Cracki> no big contract. little ones.
2019-05-17T00:34:16 < jadew> my mistake was that I agreed to a very low rate when I made this agreement with them, because I thought I'd get relatively constant work of a different sort
2019-05-17T00:34:20 < Cracki> if they want you on call, that's at least 50% of the regular rate just for sitting on your ass
2019-05-17T00:35:03 < Cracki> hehe you're right, it's time to end this situation
2019-05-17T00:35:27 < Cracki> I would bet that they want to retain you and want to talk new terms
2019-05-17T00:36:08 < Cracki> you can give them a "take it or leave it" offer. you're already prepared to walk away, no loss to you.
2019-05-17T00:36:19 < jadew> that's the plan, yeah
2019-05-17T00:36:37 < Cracki> if your offer doesn't make you blush, it's not aggressive enough
2019-05-17T00:37:01 < jadew> heh
2019-05-17T00:41:56 < kakimir> it the whole mindset that you need to grasp
2019-05-17T00:43:13 < kakimir> you are running a business
2019-05-17T00:44:19 < Cracki> nerdy types, engineers etc think cost of production + 15% is fair. FAIR is the highest price point where they still decide to give you money
2019-05-17T00:45:36 < kakimir> I'm not the right person to talk about running a business but I have seen it from close
2019-05-17T00:45:49 < Cracki> that's how iphones are sold. everyone has a certain price they'd pay. iphones start at 1000 bucks or so, and gradually drop down, so everyone pays exactly as much as they can still endure
2019-05-17T00:46:13 < Cracki> because they buy as soon as the price drops below their pain level
2019-05-17T00:46:44 < Cracki> waiting 3-6 months would be delayed gratification and we don't have that today
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2019-05-17T00:47:42 < Cracki> going "let's sell it for 400 bucks" you'd miss out on ALL the wads of cash from ALL the people whose pain level is above that
2019-05-17T00:50:38 < jadew> kakimir, that's a good mindset
2019-05-17T00:51:19 < jadew> Cracki, there's also the fact that some products sell better at higher prices than at lower prices
2019-05-17T00:55:54 < Cracki> definitely
2019-05-17T00:56:40 < Cracki> that's what HR drones say about new graduates too, they sell themselves too low so it looks like they aren't worth anything and then the company ends up hiring the one who has more confidence
2019-05-17T00:57:50 < karlp> that's why you pay a consulting firm the big bucks to have _them_ give you a new hire :)
2019-05-17T00:57:55 < karlp> it costs more, must be better
2019-05-17T00:58:36 < jadew> how exactly does one get into that? I wanted to do exactly that but I'm not sure how to start
2019-05-17T00:58:37 < kakimir> oh
2019-05-17T00:58:51 < Cracki> get hired by a conslutting company
2019-05-17T00:58:59 < karlp> (who won't pay you the big bucks...)
2019-05-17T00:59:08 < kakimir> that is why all the companies hire via conslutting company
2019-05-17T00:59:18 < jadew> do you just go to companies and go like: "hey, let me hire your people"
2019-05-17T00:59:20 < Cracki> or do what you do, but ask better prices
2019-05-17T00:59:27 < kakimir> they think it's significally better
2019-05-17T00:59:47 < Cracki> yes, headhunters approach companies, but companies also appraoch headhunters
2019-05-17T01:00:00 < Cracki> it pays to drop business cards everywhere
2019-05-17T01:00:27 < Cracki> it's outsourcing, which can be good because concentrated experience, or bad because they rip you off
2019-05-17T01:01:42 < jadew> when I was in charge of hiring new programmers I could tell how ill equipped management was for that job
2019-05-17T01:02:23 < jadew> so it really pays to have someone who understand programmers to do that
2019-05-17T01:02:35 < Steffanx> Happy Grunnlovsdagen zyp. 
2019-05-17T01:02:51 < Cracki> why the hell do there appear to be no standard _heights_ for euroboxes...
2019-05-17T01:03:41 < Cracki> I see quasi-standard heights but nothing that is "divisible"
2019-05-17T01:05:16 < kakimir> what is eurobox?
2019-05-17T01:05:39 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_container
2019-05-17T01:05:59 < Cracki> stuff that tetrises neatly onto euro pallets
2019-05-17T01:06:06 < Cracki> which is 1200x800
2019-05-17T01:06:34 < kakimir> oh I call that lihalaatikko
2019-05-17T01:06:39 < Cracki> obviously
2019-05-17T01:06:43 < kakimir> meatbox
2019-05-17T01:07:17 < Cracki> https://www.kotikokki.net/media/cache/large/recipeimage/large/52d6dcc0d074a9ec0e07d1eb/original.jpg?1297490813
2019-05-17T01:07:35 < kakimir> yes
2019-05-17T01:07:57 < kakimir> also magaroon box is very typical food
2019-05-17T01:08:05 < kakimir> and liver box
2019-05-17T01:08:19 < kakimir> that is horrible
2019-05-17T01:08:27 < kakimir> tastes like liver
2019-05-17T01:08:36 < Steffanx> Potbox
2019-05-17T01:08:46 < kakimir> tastes like depression
2019-05-17T01:09:09 < Steffanx> Liver is eatable when prepared properly
2019-05-17T01:09:32 < kakimir> in small quatities maybe
2019-05-17T01:10:02 < Steffanx> Define small
2019-05-17T01:10:09 < kakimir> that you barelly taste it
2019-05-17T01:10:25 < zyp> is liver paste only common to eat here?
2019-05-17T01:10:26 < kakimir> but duck liver is good
2019-05-17T01:10:36 < zyp> liver paste, spread on bread
2019-05-17T01:10:42 < kakimir> yes zyp 
2019-05-17T01:10:57 < kakimir> very traditional
2019-05-17T01:11:14 < kakimir> achually pretty good taste
2019-05-17T01:11:21 < zyp> yes
2019-05-17T01:11:44 < zyp> ate a lot of that when I were younger
2019-05-17T01:12:04 < Cracki> liver paste might not contain liver
2019-05-17T01:12:24 < kakimir> :o
2019-05-17T01:12:30 < Cracki> or not much anyway
2019-05-17T01:12:40 < kakimir> it's actually horse?
2019-05-17T01:12:53 < Cracki> german variant is spreadable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverwurst
2019-05-17T01:12:59 < Cracki> everything is horse
2019-05-17T01:13:23 < zyp> 31% pork liver in the one I usually buy
2019-05-17T01:13:40 < Cracki> germans know Leberkäse, which is a firm thing
2019-05-17T01:14:21 < Cracki> germans have hundreds of words for "sausage"
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2019-05-17T01:21:32 < kakimir> I have not experienced sausage yet
2019-05-17T01:21:52 < kakimir> I think I need to go to germany to truly know what sausage is
2019-05-17T01:22:30 < kakimir> well moose sausage was good and all meat
2019-05-17T01:24:26 < kakimir> I will pass that as true sausage
2019-05-17T01:27:08 < kakimir> also local food so that is also important
2019-05-17T01:44:34 < Cracki> "bavarian" is "boarisch" in bavarian. they must have been descendants of wild boars
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2019-05-17T01:48:49 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiFBgtgUtfw
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2019-05-17T02:10:02 < Thorn> lol even AO34xx mosfets are being cloned now. original ones are ~5 cents qty 100 @ lcsc and clones are ~half that
2019-05-17T02:10:27 < kakimir> :o
2019-05-17T02:10:44 < kakimir> how does that even work
2019-05-17T02:10:52 < specing> Thorn: even? There are clones of stm32f103
2019-05-17T02:11:05 < kakimir> but ao3400 is like cheap
2019-05-17T02:11:27 < kakimir> and good performance must cost money to replicate
2019-05-17T02:12:42 < Thorn> specing: I mean in the economical sense
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2019-05-17T02:13:01 < Thorn> who would clone a cheap clone of IRLMLxxxx
2019-05-17T02:13:05 < specing> 5 cents is not cheap
2019-05-17T02:14:28 < kakimir> and 100 is not a large quantity
2019-05-17T02:15:28 < kakimir> something like ao3400 I would buy 100 just for prototyping and random use
2019-05-17T02:19:21 < Cracki> random ali search gives me 1,51 bucks/100 pc for something they claim is ao3400
2019-05-17T02:21:13 < Cracki> 11 bucks/1k even
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2019-05-17T04:00:27 < Thorn> how do I actually install a 7660 onto a display like https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1ru7lSZfpK1RjSZFOq6y6nFXax.jpg ?
2019-05-17T04:01:25 < Thorn> guides on the net say remove J1, connect J3 but J1 is what seems to connect pin 5 of the 7660 to the V0
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2019-05-17T04:22:10 < mawk> you tried with a multimeter Thorn ?
2019-05-17T04:22:16 < mawk> or you assume from the picture
2019-05-17T04:44:43 < Thorn> I did check with continuity meter but when I put J1 back it short circuited so J1 does need to be off
2019-05-17T04:45:14 < Thorn> the correct solution seems to be J3 shorted + 1.5K from V0 to GND for proper contrast
2019-05-17T04:45:28 < Thorn> or 1.6K
2019-05-17T04:47:13 < Thorn> >SpaceX says the company is standing down from the Starlink launch for about one week
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2019-05-17T06:35:50 < dongs> did starlink happen
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2019-05-17T08:42:21 < ohsix> wah
2019-05-17T08:42:24 < ohsix> aliexpress changed
2019-05-17T08:42:52 < ohsix> is TheSeven still around, heheh
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2019-05-17T08:45:08 < ohsix> they need a venmo account so i can whine for aliexpress script updates with some billz
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2019-05-17T08:50:29 < ohsix> oo there's a url thing to use the old version
2019-05-17T08:55:45 < ohsix> and it sticks if you're logged in, &switch_new_app=n
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2019-05-17T10:42:45 < jadew> the big bang theory has been canceled
2019-05-17T10:43:46 < dongs> thank fuck
2019-05-17T10:44:08 < jadew> you didn't like it?
2019-05-17T10:57:37 < Cracki> uhhh why is the spacex stream still "waiting for ..." when it should have happened already
2019-05-17T10:58:48 < Cracki> oh, postponed again
2019-05-17T11:01:02 < Steffanx> jadew isnt that something they announced aaaaages ago?
2019-05-17T11:01:56 < dongs> it got cancelled again cracki
2019-05-17T11:02:21 < ohsix> heheheh there's a really old guy that likes to tell me how great the big bang theory is
2019-05-17T11:06:35 < jadew> Steffanx, I didn't know
2019-05-17T11:09:41 < dongs> jadew: ive never watched a single ep and dont plan to
2019-05-17T11:09:42 < dongs> its garbage
2019-05-17T11:09:58 < PaulFertser> How did you determine it?
2019-05-17T11:10:15 < dongs> i have such skill
2019-05-17T11:11:37  * PaulFertser tried watching it for like 5 minutes, got fed up with the background "audience laughter", never tried again
2019-05-17T11:12:09 < dongs> oh is it one of those? well, i'm rarely wrong about TV ratings.
2019-05-17T11:12:17 < dongs> every show/movie i called shit has been universally shit
2019-05-17T11:13:38 < PaulFertser> "laugh track" it's called
2019-05-17T11:14:18 < PaulFertser> Did you ever enjoy any sitcom dongs ?
2019-05-17T11:15:22 < dongs> no
2019-05-17T11:15:29 < dongs> they're all unfunny
2019-05-17T11:15:33 < dongs> despite being called "comedy"
2019-05-17T11:17:04 < PaulFertser> I can imagine a hairy motogang member (of a higher rank) saying that. But you ain't that tough are you ;)
2019-05-17T11:19:06 < Steffanx> Anime is all you need
2019-05-17T11:19:34 < PaulFertser> dongs, what about plays by Molière or Beaumarchais ?
2019-05-17T11:20:15 < Steffanx> Doesnt sound very dongish
2019-05-17T11:20:28 < dongs> i have no idea what any of that is
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2019-05-17T11:22:05 < superbia> konichiwa
2019-05-17T11:23:23 < PaulFertser> Hm, is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marriage_of_Figaro_(play) not known in the USA?
2019-05-17T11:24:00 < superbia> if it's dc or marvel than yes
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2019-05-17T11:26:26 < PaulFertser> What kind of "comedy" is actually funny for dongs?
2019-05-17T11:26:53 < superbia> PaulFertser: https://github.com/yutayu/dumb
2019-05-17T11:27:58 < PaulFertser> I think I'm dumb, maybe just happy
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2019-05-17T12:17:46 < Steffanx> Welcome superbia. Hows Helvetica?
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2019-05-17T12:22:21 < Steffanx> Bye.
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2019-05-17T13:26:41 < Steffanx> How arw you comrade Ultrasauce?
2019-05-17T13:26:52 < Steffanx> are*
2019-05-17T13:27:20 < Ultrasauce> eh not too bad
2019-05-17T13:27:53 < Ultrasauce> hows things on your end
2019-05-17T13:28:08 < Steffanx> Good enough.
2019-05-17T13:29:57 < Steffanx> Moved your proxy to russia?
2019-05-17T13:30:23 < Ultrasauce> nope migrated it to toronto actually
2019-05-17T13:30:48 < BrainDamage> considering he's a company owner, calling him comrade does sound weird
2019-05-17T13:30:56 < Ultrasauce> trying to not lean too much infrastructure on the soil of my despotic neighbours
2019-05-17T13:42:21 < dongs> https://www.cnx-software.com/2019/05/13/how-one-line-of-code-tripled-allwinner-a20-sata-write-performance/ haha lunix
2019-05-17T13:44:32 < catphish> it's hardly a surprise that one constant would have a dramatic impact on performance if it's wrong
2019-05-17T13:45:34 < catphish> i do like my allwinners though
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2019-05-17T14:09:57 < Steffanx> Allwhiner ;)
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2019-05-17T15:12:41 < Thorn> what chip can I use to decode AAC and generate an FM radio signal (via a DDC chip probably)? will stm32 be enough?
2019-05-17T15:12:41 < Thorn> h7 or f7
2019-05-17T15:12:56 < dongs> Thorn, I decodd AAC-HE on F405
2019-05-17T15:13:13 < Thorn> is the codec open source?
2019-05-17T15:13:16 < dongs> no lol
2019-05-17T15:13:19 < Thorn> or decoder
2019-05-17T15:13:21 < dongs> but it might work wiht opensores shit
2019-05-17T15:13:41 < dongs> you can use that VLSI thing that will work for sure (external chip)
2019-05-17T15:13:55 < dongs> but i htink before they bought commercial AAC codec i tested with fixedpoint helix and it was still working
2019-05-17T15:14:07 < dongs> this was like ~5 years ago i dont remember
2019-05-17T15:16:23 < Thorn> does ST charge royalties on their closed sores library?
2019-05-17T15:18:01 < dongs> that was not my concern
2019-05-17T15:18:06 < dongs> i just brought up hardware and low-level drivers
2019-05-17T15:18:12 < dongs> and tested rtos/thread stuff
2019-05-17T15:18:27 < Thorn> ok thanks
2019-05-17T15:23:12 < dongs> this is the digital radio proj i mentioned in here once or twice before.
2019-05-17T15:23:33 < dongs> digital radio demod, input by SPI + parse mpeg2ts / demux aac/metadata -> decode
2019-05-17T15:23:45 < dongs> audio output was to the CS dac that was on -disco board
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2019-05-17T16:08:59 < englishman> grumpy cat has died
2019-05-17T16:10:43 < Steffanx> Uh?
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2019-05-17T16:21:34 < Mangy_Dog> what?
2019-05-17T16:22:03 < Mangy_Dog> that name is ringing lots of bells
2019-05-17T16:44:17 < jadew> dongs, how do I get a china girl?
2019-05-17T16:44:35 < jadew> do you need high volume or something?
2019-05-17T16:44:47 < dongs> no, just someone willing to work with you
2019-05-17T16:45:26 < jadew> well, if past experience is an indicator, it's gonna be difficult
2019-05-17T16:45:39 < jadew> (kidding of course)
2019-05-17T16:46:05 < jadew> do they have a listing somewhere?
2019-05-17T16:46:26 < jadew> or do I just contact random sellers?
2019-05-17T16:46:58 < dongs> just contact random shit i think
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2019-05-17T16:48:23 < jadew> I'll have to give it a try
2019-05-17T16:49:09 < jadew> the reshipping services I found seemed a bit too expensive
2019-05-17T16:49:21 < jadew> and had lots of random fees
2019-05-17T16:49:43 < dongs> why don't you befriend one of the girls at allpcb
2019-05-17T16:49:45 < dongs> or someshin
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2019-05-17T16:50:47 < jadew> this seems weird, but I'll give it a try
2019-05-17T16:53:11 < dongs> some of them arent bad looking either
2019-05-17T16:53:28 < Steffanx> O got a china girl as well. She whatsapped my after i ordered something on aliexpress -_-
2019-05-17T16:53:34 < Steffanx> i*
2019-05-17T16:53:41 < jadew> no way...
2019-05-17T16:53:50 < Steffanx> Not joking
2019-05-17T16:53:53 < jadew> dongs, that sounds like something that's gonna work against me
2019-05-17T16:53:58 < dongs> how so
2019-05-17T16:54:11 < jadew> dongs, pretty girl = more customers = higher fees
2019-05-17T16:54:17 < dongs> nah
2019-05-17T16:54:24 < jadew> the uglier they are the better
2019-05-17T16:55:10 < jadew> Steffanx, she contacted you specifically for this?
2019-05-17T16:55:33 < jadew> maybe I should go through my messages
2019-05-17T16:55:39 < Steffanx> No, she contacted me with a status update
2019-05-17T16:55:50 < jadew> ...
2019-05-17T16:56:37 < Steffanx> About my order
2019-05-17T16:56:42 < Steffanx> And a ty
2019-05-17T16:56:53 < jadew> they all do that, no?
2019-05-17T16:58:26 < Steffanx> Never had it before
2019-05-17T16:59:06 < jadew> I have lots of "it's an honor to serve you, thank you, etc"
2019-05-17T17:00:18 < Steffanx> Yea aliexpress messagew, but not on whatsapp here
2019-05-17T17:00:53 < jadew> yeah, I didn't get taht
2019-05-17T17:00:55 < jadew> *that
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2019-05-17T17:14:58 < jadew> you know, there was a period when I would get my crap from china within a week or two
2019-05-17T17:15:24 < mawk> I hate waiting I always pay ups
2019-05-17T17:15:33 < mawk> so it's more a couple days than a couple weeks from china
2019-05-17T17:15:56 < jadew> lately it's a couple of months
2019-05-17T17:16:09 < dongs> lul
2019-05-17T17:16:16 < dongs> i can get shit next day if I really need it
2019-05-17T17:16:33 < jadew> and I'd have nothing against UPS/DHL if I could pay for shipping only once
2019-05-17T17:16:39 < jadew> and have all the orders delivered in one package
2019-05-17T17:16:51 < jadew> dongs, how?
2019-05-17T17:17:36 < dongs> chinagirl will pick it up in the morning and fedex ip and it will be in japan in afternoon next day
2019-05-17T17:17:54 < jadew> how much do you pay her?
2019-05-17T17:17:59 < dongs> just the parts.
2019-05-17T17:18:02 < dongs> and shiping
2019-05-17T17:18:08 < dongs> and my <3
2019-05-17T17:18:13 < jadew> haha, bs
2019-05-17T17:18:17 < jadew> what's the catch?
2019-05-17T17:18:17 < dongs> srs
2019-05-17T17:18:19 < dongs> no catch
2019-05-17T17:18:42 < jadew> that's pretty neat, you buy other stuff from her?
2019-05-17T17:19:06 < dongs> i buy pretty much wahtever, i mean, few years ago i had her buy me a pallete of wood plastic composite
2019-05-17T17:19:15 < dongs> she just helped to forward it to a boat shipper
2019-05-17T17:19:41 < jadew> no, I mean if you buy some of her products or something - what is she gaining from it?
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2019-05-17T17:20:12 < dongs> no, her job is literallyt to just sell shit
2019-05-17T17:20:21 < jadew> ah, got it
2019-05-17T17:20:43 < jadew> that's awesome
2019-05-17T17:21:55 < Thorn> >it's an horror to serve you
2019-05-17T17:22:00 < mawk> she wants japan passport
2019-05-17T17:22:08 < jadew> haha
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2019-05-17T18:01:40 < Thorn> why do current mode buck ICs still have voltage feedback pins?
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2019-05-17T19:32:13 < karlp> thorn I don't reall see the AO34xx as being clones of things, they're just fets, they have their own specs.  it's not like thye're trying to clone part numbers and things too or anything,
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2019-05-17T20:03:25 < englishman> currently using this TI evaluation software from 2006 with interface entirely in comic sans
2019-05-17T20:06:27 < karlp> that's how you know it's eval software.
2019-05-17T20:06:36 < karlp> it's like the "napkin" jwt look and feel.
2019-05-17T20:06:59 < karlp> http://napkinlaf.sourceforge.net/NapkinDisabled.jpg
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2019-05-17T20:52:51 < englishman> haha
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2019-05-17T21:12:05 < boddax> hi , having a problem making firmware backup of stm32f103rct6 , st-link advice ''could not read memory ,Disable Read Out protection and retry''
2019-05-17T21:12:37 < boddax> i dont know much about stm32 just try to modify cnc controller
2019-05-17T21:13:45 < boddax> stlink jtag hw is an simple waveshare and stlink utility 4.4.0.0
2019-05-17T21:14:37 < boddax> wanted to backup the actual firmware with an grbl firmware
2019-05-17T21:16:37 < boddax> this read ou protection is a internal protection not allow to read the content or i have something wrtong in my setup?
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2019-05-17T21:24:40 < Thorn> apparently the manufacturer doesn't want you to "back up" their firmware
2019-05-17T21:25:18 < boddax> Thats why Thorn 
2019-05-17T21:26:01 < kakimir> manuf doesn
2019-05-17T21:26:08 < kakimir> 't want you to do shit
2019-05-17T21:27:20 < boddax> nothing wrong with the setup , i will use grbl opensource github for the c8 type this board has rc mcu
2019-05-17T21:27:38 < boddax> dont know even if will work
2019-05-17T21:28:34 < boddax> but i can overwrite the actual firmware right?
2019-05-17T21:28:40 < Cracki> maybe
2019-05-17T21:29:04 < boddax> lol maybe ,,so is not even sure+
2019-05-17T21:29:21 < Cracki> f7 but it's a start https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/training/technical/product_training/group0/f5/5e/87/93/f5/d7/45/85/STM32F7_Security_Memories_Protections/files/STM32F7_Security_Memories_Protections.pdf/_jcr_content/translations/en.STM32F7_Security_Memories_Protections.pdf
2019-05-17T21:29:57 < boddax> using coocox ide to rebuild for rc type but need to remap the pinout 
2019-05-17T21:30:02 < Thorn> you can most likely erase the mcu
2019-05-17T21:30:17 < Thorn> then flash it with your firmware
2019-05-17T21:30:28 < Thorn> but original firmware will e lost
2019-05-17T21:31:03 < boddax> yes sad cannot backup so no chance to back if not working
2019-05-17T21:31:08 < Cracki> do stm32f1 have readout protection level 1 and 2? 2 prevents whole chip erase ,apparently
2019-05-17T21:32:07 < Cracki> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/programming_manual/10/98/e8/d4/2b/51/4b/f5/CD00283419.pdf/files/CD00283419.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00283419.pdf
2019-05-17T21:32:46 < Cracki> seems to have no levels
2019-05-17T21:33:26 < boddax> thats good atleast
2019-05-17T21:34:05 < boddax> https://github.com/usbcnc/grbl/blob/edge/grbl/cpu_map.h  this the file maybe need to reconfigure  ..complicated
2019-05-17T21:34:43 < Cracki> uh that's full of avr-isms
2019-05-17T21:34:49 < Cracki> DDRD, PORTD, ...
2019-05-17T21:35:00 < Cracki> nvm didn't see the ifdef
2019-05-17T21:35:23 < boddax> this is a port from arduino grbl cnc controller
2019-05-17T21:35:24 < Cracki> it probably assumes avr tho, I see no stm32 or cortex
2019-05-17T21:35:42 < Cracki> maybe search for "grbl stm32"
2019-05-17T21:35:59 < boddax> dont know why stll writed about atmel328
2019-05-17T21:36:28 < Cracki> "stll" means what
2019-05-17T21:36:48 < boddax> still
2019-05-17T21:37:10 < Cracki> maybe it's not a port but some random fork and someone dicked around with it
2019-05-17T21:37:17 < Cracki> or they haven't done ANYTHING yet
2019-05-17T21:37:31 < Cracki> or that file is obsolete
2019-05-17T21:37:54 < boddax> STM32F103C8 port
2019-05-17T21:38:15 < boddax> or maybe cannot fit for my STM32F103rct6 board
2019-05-17T21:39:08 < Cracki> nvm my bad
2019-05-17T21:39:19 < Cracki> it has #ifdef CPU_MAP_STM32F103
2019-05-17T21:39:42 < boddax> no actually is working one port
2019-05-17T21:40:00 < boddax> have also youtube video is one of best port
2019-05-17T21:40:33 < boddax> but i make pcb dont kjnow much about processors
2019-05-17T21:41:57 < boddax> this the board planning to convert to grbl
2019-05-17T21:41:59 < boddax> https://www.robotics.org.za/BSMCEO4U
2019-05-17T21:42:35 < boddax> very simple translating gcode to something parallel data
2019-05-17T21:43:49 < boddax> has optical isolator , mcu and 74hc541 buffer interface for parallel data basically
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2019-05-17T22:33:28 < onio> anyone here to help with STM32H743ZI board no triggering interrupt?
2019-05-17T22:34:03 < mawk> I have that board yes
2019-05-17T22:34:10 < mawk> but for the helping part I don't know
2019-05-17T22:34:15 < mawk> how big is your project ? just starting ?
2019-05-17T22:34:19 < onio> I am trying to get I2C going 
2019-05-17T22:34:28 < onio> not very big
2019-05-17T22:34:30 < mawk> how did you write your code ? you used cubemx ?
2019-05-17T22:34:39 < mawk> using a rtos ?
2019-05-17T22:34:42 < onio> cubemx + keil
2019-05-17T22:34:45 < mawk> good
2019-05-17T22:34:58 < mawk> so the peripheral must be configured properly I take it
2019-05-17T22:35:05 < zyp> onio, have you turned on the interrupt both in the peripheral and the NVIC?
2019-05-17T22:35:10 < onio> yes
2019-05-17T22:35:13 < mawk> you didn't touch the autogenerated nvic code and so on
2019-05-17T22:35:22 < onio> no
2019-05-17T22:35:42 < zyp> which interrupt in particular? I2C is known to be a bit fiddly
2019-05-17T22:36:16 < onio> I am trying to use I2C2 which I think should be coming on IRQ33
2019-05-17T22:36:30 < zyp> yeah, but which I2C interrupt?
2019-05-17T22:37:19 < onio> zyp, No sure I understand what you are asking
2019-05-17T22:37:32 < onio> not sure ..
2019-05-17T22:37:35 < mawk> why are you doing things with irq numbers also onio ? if you're using cubemx and the ST hal you should just define the weak callbacks
2019-05-17T22:37:47 < mawk> HAL_I2C_MasterTxCpltCallback and so on
2019-05-17T22:37:59 < zyp> onio, what I'm asking is which particular event you are expecting to interrupt you
2019-05-17T22:38:37 < zyp> although, I realize now that you're probably calling a cubemx function that does all that for you :)
2019-05-17T22:38:45 < mawk> make sure you enabled the I2C irq with the right priority in cubemx NVIC view
2019-05-17T22:38:51 < mawk> it doesn't do it by itself
2019-05-17T22:38:58 < onio> sorry, I forgot to mention I am running the STM32H743 as a slave
2019-05-17T22:39:12 < onio> I have a master I2C device that is sending me data. 
2019-05-17T22:39:18 < zyp> okay, so you're expecting address match or something like that?
2019-05-17T22:39:24 < onio> yes
2019-05-17T22:39:49 < zyp> I suggest double checking you've set the address correctly and haven't confused the 7-bit and 8-bit formats or something
2019-05-17T22:40:00 < onio> I have a logic analyser and see the address is put on the bus correctly
2019-05-17T22:41:13 < zyp> is the match register configured correctly too?
2019-05-17T22:41:33 < onio> yes the address is configured from cubemx
2019-05-17T22:42:05 < zyp> but is it the right format?
2019-05-17T22:42:18 < zyp> i2c addrs have both a 7-bit and a 8-bit representation
2019-05-17T22:42:52 < onio> I believe it should be 7-bit + rw bit
2019-05-17T22:43:45 < onio> addresss = (i2caddr << 1 | W/R)
2019-05-17T22:43:58 < zyp> a 7-bit address of 0x24 would be 0x48 in the 8-bit representation
2019-05-17T22:43:59 < onio> addresss = ((i2caddr << 1) | W/R)
2019-05-17T22:44:09 < zyp> since the latter includes the r/w bit set to 0
2019-05-17T22:44:47 < zyp> some libs use the 7-bit format, some libs use the 8-bit format, and if you don't make sure they match, you run into confusion
2019-05-17T22:45:36 < onio> let me quick check again just to be sure
2019-05-17T22:55:21 < onio> I think I am getting a response now
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--- Day changed Sat May 18 2019
2019-05-18T00:11:19 < invzim> anyone gotten 10118194-0001LF clones off LCSC?
2019-05-18T00:11:49 < invzim> hm, original is .3 usd so prob not worth the bother actually
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2019-05-18T01:21:27 < kakimir> https://pr0gramm.com/new/3208147
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2019-05-18T01:31:33 < kakimir> should I buy R6
2019-05-18T01:31:39 < kakimir> it's broken
2019-05-18T01:32:17 < kakimir> 2 pistons without compression
2019-05-18T01:32:27 < kakimir> but it's cheap and looks good
2019-05-18T01:35:34 < kakimir> and not first yamaha engine I have done
2019-05-18T01:42:14 < kakimir> it looks remarkably similar than genesis 120 from inside
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2019-05-18T01:45:27 < mawk> cars are for losers kakimir 
2019-05-18T01:45:35 < mawk> winners ride the bicycle
2019-05-18T01:45:57 < mawk> saving the planet at each pedal stroke
2019-05-18T01:46:02 < kakimir> who was talking about cars
2019-05-18T01:46:16 < mawk> I heard piston, engine and yamaha
2019-05-18T01:46:25 < mawk> I assumed some combustion engine transportation device
2019-05-18T01:47:15 < kakimir> I think it's a while since yamaha did it's last engine to car
2019-05-18T01:48:15 < kakimir> Lexus LFA 2012 was the last one
2019-05-18T01:58:22 < kakimir> it could be interesting budget challenge / gamble
2019-05-18T01:58:37 < kakimir> 1000eur bike that needs X eur of parts to engine
2019-05-18T02:00:46 < kakimir> hmm maybe it's cracked cylinder liner
2019-05-18T02:04:06 < kakimir> yeah than engine is goner
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2019-05-18T02:05:13 < kakimir> they have electroplated sleeveless cylinderliners
2019-05-18T02:05:20 < kakimir> no realistic repair options
2019-05-18T02:09:10 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BglzNAML78M
2019-05-18T02:10:17 < kakimir> tl;dw;
2019-05-18T02:10:32 < kakimir> but basically it's like second worst first bike
2019-05-18T02:10:44 < kakimir> right after something like hayabusa
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2019-05-18T02:47:09 < kakimir> man.. motorcycles fitting my budget dem are ugli
2019-05-18T02:48:45 < englishman> ural
2019-05-18T02:51:28 < kakimir> oh I found something that is only semi ugli and pretty new
2019-05-18T02:51:54 < kakimir> more like a touring
2019-05-18T02:52:05 < kakimir> but quite new
2019-05-18T02:52:43 < kakimir> 2004
2019-05-18T02:54:57 < kakimir> hmm pretty expensive to use
2019-05-18T02:55:14 < kakimir> mandatory insurance 430eur
2019-05-18T02:55:17 < kakimir> or
2019-05-18T02:58:54 < kakimir> englishman: what type of motorcycle you imagine I would ride?
2019-05-18T03:00:26 < englishman> something small and flexible, like a Finnish person?
2019-05-18T03:00:43 < zyp> C++ modules are kinda cool
2019-05-18T03:01:42 < zyp> I like how they do away with the entire source/header split
2019-05-18T03:04:43 < zyp> kinda hassle to deal with from a build system perspective, since somebody apparently decided that decoupling module name from filename would be a good idea
2019-05-18T03:05:57 < zyp> but if I just make the assumption that they are identical, they are easy to deal with
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2019-05-18T03:14:22 < jadew> zyp, haven't looked into them, how are they different from just header files?
2019-05-18T03:16:07 < jadew> ok, I get it, they're doing away with header files
2019-05-18T03:16:26 < jadew> that's cool
2019-05-18T03:16:27 < kakimir> honda rebel 250 - 84mpg
2019-05-18T03:16:43 < kakimir> I got off the rails already
2019-05-18T03:16:57 < jadew> I still like the idea of having the declaration separate tho
2019-05-18T03:17:10 < kakimir> I'm reading top 10 of most fuel efficient motorcycles
2019-05-18T03:19:56 < kakimir> what the fuq.. honda rebel would cost me more in insurance
2019-05-18T03:20:29 < kakimir> if I add full covered insurance it's like 600eur a year
2019-05-18T03:20:33 < zyp> jadew, why?
2019-05-18T03:20:57 < jadew> zyp, everything that's exposed is in one condensed place
2019-05-18T03:21:17 < jadew> makes it easier to understand how to use the code
2019-05-18T03:21:44 < zyp> by looking at opaque functions?
2019-05-18T03:21:55 < jadew> yeah, I don't need to know what's inside
2019-05-18T03:22:10 < zyp> then why not just read the API documentation?
2019-05-18T03:22:24 < jadew> maybe it's not available
2019-05-18T03:22:40 < jadew> also, sometimes just "go to declaration" is simpler and you get to see the rest of the stuff too
2019-05-18T03:23:27 < jadew> it's just easier to figure out intent by looking at the header file than at the source code
2019-05-18T03:23:35 < jadew> if you want clarification, you can just switch
2019-05-18T03:23:54 < jadew> but for a quick overview (which is what you usually want), header files make it easier
2019-05-18T03:23:59 < zyp> if you're using an IDE that understands the code, just have your IDE get you a list of functions
2019-05-18T03:24:16 < jadew> eh, it's not the same
2019-05-18T03:24:33 < jadew> in a header file you get extra comments, shit is grouped together in a meaningful way, etc
2019-05-18T03:24:47 < zyp> also inline functions and stuff :p
2019-05-18T03:25:04 < jadew> that's not always the case for the cpp files, where the comments are generally oriented towards the implementation rather than how to use it
2019-05-18T03:25:19 < jadew> zyp, yeah, that too :)
2019-05-18T03:25:48 < zyp> another thing C++ modules gets rid of: the whole «should I put it in the header for inlining or in the source?» question
2019-05-18T03:26:08 < Cracki> *shudder*
2019-05-18T03:26:14 < Cracki> I want modules
2019-05-18T03:26:41 < jadew> yeah, that's pretty cool, but what's funny is that they also made it possible to have header-only implementations
2019-05-18T03:27:05 < zyp> yeah?
2019-05-18T03:27:15 < jadew> yeah, they made it so you don't need external variables anymore or anything like that
2019-05-18T03:27:41 < zyp> I mean, much of laks is header only
2019-05-18T03:27:47 < jadew> you can have everything in the header file and it behaves properly if you include it in 2 different cpp files
2019-05-18T03:28:05 < jadew> yeah, you could have header only stuff before, but there were limitations
2019-05-18T03:28:11 < zyp> half of it because it's thin enough it should be inlined, and the other half because I've been too lazy to split it into header/source
2019-05-18T03:28:38 < jadew> some stuff just works better as header-only anyway
2019-05-18T03:28:40 < zyp> with modules getting rid of the split, I don't have to worry about that laziness either
2019-05-18T03:28:52 < zyp> well, yeah, templates are obviously header only
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2019-05-18T03:30:06 < zyp> I made a little test case for modules, and scons rules to handle building and dependency tracking: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Qf3Da
2019-05-18T03:30:54 < zyp> so now I can just tell SCons I've got three module files, and it figures out on its own that main imports mod_a and mod_b, and mod_b also imports mod_a
2019-05-18T03:32:01 < zyp> (the .pcm for the imported module needs to exist when building the .pcm for the importing module)
2019-05-18T03:32:41 < jadew> makes sense
2019-05-18T04:03:52 < mawk> [02:24:33] <jadew> in a header file you get extra comments, shit is grouped together in a meaningful way, etc
2019-05-18T04:03:59 < mawk> in many coding styles the comments are in the .c
2019-05-18T04:04:04 < mawk> ST HAL follows this, for instance
2019-05-18T04:04:37 < mawk> my school made us do that too, I always found it stupid
2019-05-18T04:04:38 < jadew> there should be comments in both files, but they're targeted at a different reader
2019-05-18T04:04:48 < jadew> *readers
2019-05-18T04:05:10 < jadew> the ones in the header file should inform you on how to use it, what it does, etc
2019-05-18T04:05:16 < mawk> yes it's the one I'm talking about
2019-05-18T04:05:18 < jadew> the ones in the C++ should deal with why it does it like that
2019-05-18T04:05:27 < jadew> *in the cpp
2019-05-18T04:05:29 < jadew> sorry
2019-05-18T04:05:39 < mawk> in the ST HAL the doxygen text describing the function is in the .c, in the .h you get nothing
2019-05-18T04:05:45 < mawk> the prototype and no comment whatsoever
2019-05-18T04:05:53 < jadew> right, that's stupid
2019-05-18T04:05:56 < jadew> I actually solved that
2019-05-18T04:06:10 < jadew> I wrote a documentation generator that separates the documentation from the code
2019-05-18T04:06:22 < jadew> and still has it linked together in a useful way
2019-05-18T04:06:33 < jadew> was planning to release it opensource, but got sidetracked
2019-05-18T04:06:41 < jadew> I still use it tho and it works great
2019-05-18T04:06:48 < mawk> jadewxygen
2019-05-18T04:06:57 < jadew> I called it docpiler :D
2019-05-18T04:07:18 < jadew> I still own the domain name, but I don't know if I'll ever release it
2019-05-18T04:07:57 < jadew> used to have a website that had documentation generated by it, but I've given up on releasing that project too :P
2019-05-18T04:08:36 < mawk> you can release things as they are and hope that someone will find it useful and write proper docs for it
2019-05-18T04:08:52 < mawk> why is this so expensive ? https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/power/charge-pumps/MAX1759.html/tb_tab0
2019-05-18T04:08:56 < jadew> the second one I didn't release because it was finished and extremely awesome
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2019-05-18T04:09:01 < jadew> and I didn't want anyone else to have it
2019-05-18T04:09:02 < mawk> it's 2.80€ in 1k quantities
2019-05-18T04:09:07 < mawk> lol
2019-05-18T04:09:22 < mawk> you can put like MIT license to have your name glued to the project whatever it becomes
2019-05-18T04:09:25 < mawk> it's nice on your resumee
2019-05-18T04:09:41 < jadew> I don't plan on getting a job ever again
2019-05-18T04:09:56 < jadew> also, MIT license allows you to strip even the license away ;)
2019-05-18T04:10:07 < jadew> it's basically a public domain license
2019-05-18T04:10:32 < jadew> so that's not the way to attach your name to a piece of code
2019-05-18T04:16:28 < mawk> what ?
2019-05-18T04:16:33 < mawk> where do you see this ?
2019-05-18T04:16:44 < mawk> MIT allows you to do whatever you want, as long as you retain the copyright notice
2019-05-18T04:17:26 < mawk> you can change the license if you want, but you must keep the notice
2019-05-18T04:17:53 < jadew> mawk, nah
2019-05-18T04:18:02 < jadew> you can take the code, make it yours and not credit anyone
2019-05-18T04:18:12 < mawk> then you're just a criminal
2019-05-18T04:18:12 < mawk> lol
2019-05-18T04:18:16 < jadew> nope
2019-05-18T04:18:29 < mawk> when you release it you need to include the copyright notice, even if you change the license
2019-05-18T04:18:31 < jadew> there were many disputes online on this topic
2019-05-18T04:18:47 < jadew> because opensource project got forked and the notice got completely removed :)
2019-05-18T04:19:24 < mawk> it's not because noone challenged the company that it was in its good right
2019-05-18T04:19:34 < jadew> it was not a company
2019-05-18T04:19:40 < jadew> other opensource developers
2019-05-18T04:20:26 < jadew> the thing is you are allowed to do whatever you like with the code and people do just that
2019-05-18T04:20:33 < jadew> they copy it, without the license :P
2019-05-18T04:20:39 < mawk> that's not what the license says
2019-05-18T04:20:45 < mawk> if they're doing that they're breaking the license
2019-05-18T04:20:55 < mawk> but since everyone is poor in opensource no-one does anything against that
2019-05-18T04:21:04 < jadew> maybe, but it's debatable
2019-05-18T04:21:09 < mawk> even when big companies breach open source licenses no-one except the EFF is crying about it
2019-05-18T04:21:10 < jadew> MIT is as permissive as it gets
2019-05-18T04:21:17 < zyp> hey, found another cool feature with C++ modules
2019-05-18T04:21:54 < mawk> plus if someone steals your MIT code you get the play the patent troll and scare for money
2019-05-18T04:22:01 < mawk> I get USA people love doing that
2019-05-18T04:22:03 < zyp> converting a toy project, turns out I'm including two different copies of a library into my source
2019-05-18T04:23:11 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/PawKx
2019-05-18T04:23:38 < mawk> nice
2019-05-18T04:28:03 < zyp> hmm
2019-05-18T04:28:33 < zyp> I guess normally include guards would make sure you get one or the other, depending on which were included first
2019-05-18T04:29:22 < jadew> dongs, I found myself a chinese dude
2019-05-18T04:29:54 < jadew> $21/package for <= 0.5 kg, +$5 for each extra 0.5 kg
2019-05-18T04:29:58 < jadew> no additional fees
2019-05-18T04:30:10 < jadew> I think that's a good deal
2019-05-18T04:31:06 < jadew> (via DHL)
2019-05-18T04:32:01 < jadew> I'll have to ask in advance what DHL will be fussy about in the case of such deliveries, so I can be prepared for the fuckery
2019-05-18T04:33:21 < mawk> that's pretty close to normal dhl rate
2019-05-18T04:33:27 < mawk> sounds like a good deal yes
2019-05-18T04:33:36 < jadew> yup
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2019-05-18T05:46:05 < dongs> jadew: why is money involved lmao, you should be just paying shipping + cost of goods?
2019-05-18T05:46:49 < jadew> well, I buy the stuff and send them to their address and they ship it to me
2019-05-18T05:46:52 < dongs> i used to have chinaguy too but then he smarted up, instead of giving me real prices he'd go to digikey and see price tehre and tell me something slightly bwloe this
2019-05-18T05:47:06 < jadew> hah
2019-05-18T05:47:06 < dongs> so i slowly disconnected from his 'services'
2019-05-18T05:47:49 < dongs> judew, yes, thats just boring freight forwarded that doesnt carea bout you. the idea is THEY handle all the buying and storing and just bill you once
2019-05-18T05:48:19 < jadew> hmm, that does sound a lot better
2019-05-18T05:48:42 < jadew> you get more control over what you're buying too
2019-05-18T05:50:19 < jadew> I wonder if someone who'd do that would have the same rates as a freight forward service (for DHL shipping)
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2019-05-18T07:03:32 < boddax> well i need litle help wit stm32f103 compiled the firmware for the dev board with usb no sign of life ..if i program bootloard then fine stlink 0x08000000
2019-05-18T07:03:46 < boddax> give only that mem address
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2019-05-18T07:04:04 < machinehum> hi
2019-05-18T07:04:06 < machinehum> hi
2019-05-18T07:04:08 < machinehum> ;p
2019-05-18T07:04:48 < boddax> how to load both of them ?
2019-05-18T07:06:05 < boddax> i see maple003 in devicelist but no driver
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2019-05-18T07:12:31 < boddax> lol very confused now is working maple usb device i found the winz10 driver m its possible to upload the firmware from usb?
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2019-05-18T07:21:56 < dongs> english motherfucker, do you speak it
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2019-05-18T08:43:16 < ds2> is there something broken with europe? getting all sort email attacks from europe addresses... things ranging from synflooding to spams
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2019-05-18T11:46:47 < Steffanx> Stop doing that jadew. "My shit is awesome, i abandoned it, but fuck you guys".
2019-05-18T11:48:41 < Steffanx> Im then like: its awesome... yeah my arse.
2019-05-18T11:50:47 < jpa-> all of its users have 100% satisfaction, it must be awesome
2019-05-18T12:26:08 < boddax> 103fxxx family about source code to handle usb port is identical ?
2019-05-18T12:26:22 < dongs> yes
2019-05-18T12:28:41 < boddax> sorrender ..really dont know why wont go up usb port ...source is for c8t6 my is rct6 
2019-05-18T12:28:51 < dongs> same thing
2019-05-18T12:28:54 < dongs> exactly same
2019-05-18T12:29:04 < dongs> c8/rc = package + flash size diff
2019-05-18T12:29:22 < dongs> but if they use GPIO to enable USB by pullup 1.5K then you obviously need to modify that
2019-05-18T12:29:44 < boddax> do you yhink im flashing wrong mem area?
2019-05-18T12:30:08 < boddax> is a minimal dev board
2019-05-18T12:31:44 < boddax> there no resistor pullup 
2019-05-18T12:32:43 < boddax> arm-none-eabi-gcc -mcpu=cortex-m3 -mthumb -Wall -ffunction-sections -g -Os -c -DUSE_STDPERIPH_DRIVER -D__ASSEMBLY__ -D_GRBL_ -DSTM32F103RC -DSTM32F10X_HD -DLEDBLINK -DUSEUSB
2019-05-18T12:32:50 < boddax> compiler things
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2019-05-18T12:47:57 < dongs> i dont know if F103RC is HighDensity device
2019-05-18T12:48:00 < dongs> i thought it was MD?
2019-05-18T12:48:43 < boddax> its hd
2019-05-18T12:48:56 < boddax> i think ..lol
2019-05-18T13:08:22 < Thorn> why isn't F1 series NRND yet
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2019-05-18T13:43:14 < Thorn> how do I stream audio over BT and use BLE at the same time
2019-05-18T13:43:23 < Thorn> in the same device
2019-05-18T13:43:42 < Thorn> if I use 2 chips or modules won't they interfere with each other
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2019-05-18T14:12:53 < qyx> you could use some coexistence trickery, if the bt is enabled, disable it
2019-05-18T14:13:21 < qyx> or disable both, they won't interfere
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2019-05-18T14:48:10 < jadew> Steffanx, heh, I didn't abandon the awesome one
2019-05-18T14:48:17 < jadew> I just didn't release it
2019-05-18T14:48:43 < jadew> it had some innovative stuff that I wanted to keep for myself, thought it would be good for business
2019-05-18T14:49:55 < jadew> docpiler is nothing spectacular, but it does things differently than the other documentation generators out there, so in my opinion is better
2019-05-18T14:50:08 < jadew> I didn't release it because I didn't want to put the extra time into it
2019-05-18T14:51:52 < Steffanx> Whokay :P
2019-05-18T14:52:06 < jadew> hold on
2019-05-18T14:54:15 < jadew> http://82.76.182.112/stuff/docpiler.png
2019-05-18T14:54:23 < jadew> that's documentation generated with docpiler, on a PHP project
2019-05-18T14:54:54 < jadew> and none of that shit is in the source file
2019-05-18T14:55:04 < jadew> (maybe some stuff is, it gathers info from everywhere)
2019-05-18T14:58:27 < jadew> just checked, fetch() is a single line function with no comments anywhere
2019-05-18T14:58:39 < jadew> this makes the code base a lot cleaner
2019-05-18T14:58:57 < jadew> because you can have actual documentation without writing books in the place where you should be writing code
2019-05-18T14:59:17 < jadew> I think that's pretty awesome
2019-05-18T14:59:39 < Steffanx> It looks ok, but i do wonder what the exact input was
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2019-05-18T15:00:13 < jadew> it creates a map of everything into a text file and you get to enter the documentation there
2019-05-18T15:00:19 < jadew> when you change the code it just updates that
2019-05-18T15:01:16 < jadew> the documentation format is unspecified, in this case it's text + some tags I made up for cross referencing and formatting specific to this project
2019-05-18T15:01:19 < jadew> but it can be anything you want
2019-05-18T15:04:47  * jadew makes awesome stuff
2019-05-18T15:05:42 < Steffanx> Lol ok
2019-05-18T15:12:51 < jadew> you wouldn't believe if I told you what other stuff I made and I'm the only one who uses it lol
2019-05-18T15:20:15 < jpa-> such brag
2019-05-18T15:20:20 < jpa-> much awesome
2019-05-18T15:22:59 < jadew> jpa-, I don't get to talk with anyone about this stuff...
2019-05-18T15:24:43 < Steffanx> Is jpa- alright? Do you know?
2019-05-18T15:24:59 < jpa-> mostly yeah, except for a flu
2019-05-18T15:25:23 < Steffanx> Why?
2019-05-18T15:25:38 < jpa-> i guess it's due to some kind of virus
2019-05-18T15:26:13 < Steffanx> Birthday gift from junior?
2019-05-18T15:26:43 < jpa-> nah, my sister imported this flu from germany
2019-05-18T15:27:13 < jpa-> it comes with an eye infection as an extra
2019-05-18T15:27:33 < jadew> last flu I had was awful
2019-05-18T15:27:44 < jadew> it's like they get worse every year
2019-05-18T15:28:32 < jadew> did it start with a fever?
2019-05-18T15:28:55 < jpa-> not for me, but it's pretty rare that i ever get a fever
2019-05-18T15:29:09 < jadew> lucky
2019-05-18T15:30:16 < jpa-> just sore throat + plenty of that sticky substance that you're supposed to spread on surfaces to pass on the gift
2019-05-18T15:30:36 < zyp> Thorn, coexistence between multiple radios is a common thing to handle
2019-05-18T15:31:56 < zyp> jpa-, isn't that just a cold?
2019-05-18T15:32:20 < jpa-> yeah, if you want to be formal
2019-05-18T15:32:56 < jpa-> i tend to call common cold "flu" because it's a short word for a common thing, and just say "influenza" if i have an actual diagnosis
2019-05-18T15:33:30 < zyp> heh
2019-05-18T15:33:34 < jadew> you can sort of feel when you have the flu
2019-05-18T15:33:53 < zyp> yeah, in my experience the difference between a cold and a flu is pretty obvious
2019-05-18T15:34:00 < jpa-> not sure how common that usage is in english, but seems pretty standard in finnish atleast
2019-05-18T15:34:11 < jadew> in here too
2019-05-18T15:34:31 < zyp> well, we don't have the «flu» abbreviation in norwegian
2019-05-18T15:35:05 < zyp> cold and flu are respectively forkjølelse and influensa
2019-05-18T15:35:35 < jadew> really? you don't have another name for the flu?
2019-05-18T15:35:49 < zyp> no, people just say «influensa»
2019-05-18T15:35:49 < jadew> that's like calling the penis, penis
2019-05-18T15:36:19 < jpa-> do you say "forkjoelse" every time? i'd atleast shorten it to fork or something :P
2019-05-18T15:36:21 < jadew> what did they call it before it was discovered that it was influenza?
2019-05-18T15:36:40 < zyp> jpa-, it's mostly used as an adjective; «forkjølet»
2019-05-18T15:37:09 < jadew> we have a separate word for it, but I don't know if it was in use when people didn't know about the flu
2019-05-18T15:37:21 < jadew> the old generation still confuses the two
2019-05-18T15:37:29 < zyp> idk what old people say
2019-05-18T15:38:16 < jpa-> confuses or just doesn't agree with "flu" meaning influenza exclusively?
2019-05-18T15:38:22 < zyp> also, I've never went to a doctor for either a cold or a flu, so I'm not sure how formally correct my use of the terms are :p
2019-05-18T15:39:00 < jpa-> here the formal diagnosis you get is always just "acute upper respiratory infection" because they rarely bother to test for influenza vs. common cold
2019-05-18T15:39:21 < zyp> sounds reasonable
2019-05-18T15:39:46 < zyp> to me a cold is when I've got a runny nose and are coughing or sneezing a bit
2019-05-18T15:40:01 < zyp> and flu is when I get fever and muscle pains
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2019-05-18T15:40:57 < jadew> yep, that's the flu
2019-05-18T15:41:03 < zyp> yeah
2019-05-18T15:41:11 < zyp> that only happens once every five years or something
2019-05-18T15:41:12 < jpa-> here the most reasonable words for common cold are "vilustuminen" (literally 'having been too cold') and "nuhakuume" (literally 'runny nose and fever').. neither of which really matches a common cold very well
2019-05-18T15:41:49 < zyp> "forkjølet" has the same literal meaning
2019-05-18T15:42:02 < zyp> the verb «kjøle» means to cool
2019-05-18T15:42:11 < jadew> same here, it's called "raceala" which means being cold
2019-05-18T15:42:22 < jadew> or cold
2019-05-18T15:42:40 < zyp> hmm
2019-05-18T15:42:55 < jpa-> apparently "influenza" used to mean a whole range of diseases, it was only later restricted to what we call influenza today - and the restriction was extended to the derived term "flu", which seems silly to me
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2019-05-18T15:43:20 < zyp> I also contracted something in japan once that I'm not sure how to classify, because it hasn't been like any other flu I've had
2019-05-18T15:44:09 < zyp> that's when I learned that flying home with blocked sinuses is fucking painful
2019-05-18T15:44:10 < jadew> maybe it wasn't a flu
2019-05-18T15:44:26 < Steffanx> Dutch is boring. We say "verkouden" which would also translate to something like "having been too cold"
2019-05-18T15:44:54 < zyp> Steffanx, that's basically «forkjølet»
2019-05-18T15:45:22 < Steffanx> Yeah I guess
2019-05-18T15:45:26 < zyp> dutch is just misspelled norwegian
2019-05-18T15:45:37 < jadew> lol
2019-05-18T15:47:29 < Steffanx> Meh
2019-05-18T15:52:26 < jadew> I almost broke my fingers today
2019-05-18T15:52:39 < zyp> sounds like a bad idea
2019-05-18T15:53:23 < jadew> I was using a 3d printed thing to hold something under the arbor press
2019-05-18T15:53:50 < jadew> it snapped (with my fingers in the way)
2019-05-18T16:01:47 < jadew> all that happened because I don't have a lathe and I wanted to use something that didn't fit my press
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2019-05-18T17:15:44 < boddax> who use ezbkiz or coide ?
2019-05-18T17:15:55 < boddax> ezblzt*
2019-05-18T17:18:14 < boddax> EmBitz* ..i am not able to compile booting firmware ..whats wrong with my settings?
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2019-05-18T17:50:39 < Laurenceb_> what if I told you
2019-05-18T17:50:43 < Laurenceb_> solar powered plants!!
2019-05-18T17:54:04 < Cracki> hippie
2019-05-18T17:55:21 < Cracki> god designed plants to be nuclear powered. every cell has a nucleus.
2019-05-18T18:00:47 < Thorn> (fun fact: chernobyl is a type of plant)
2019-05-18T18:01:10 < Thorn> (which the town was named after)
2019-05-18T18:08:42 < Cracki> power plant or living plant
2019-05-18T18:09:18 < Cracki> aha! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl#Name
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2019-05-18T18:23:06 < karlp> this is pretty cheap, https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/microsemi-corporation/M2S010-MKR-KIT/1100-1288-ND/6709124
2019-05-18T18:25:13 < mawk> digikey makes them apparently
2019-05-18T18:25:16 < mawk> explains the price
2019-05-18T18:30:33 < Cracki> interesting. the cm3 has ETM, gigabit ethernet mac, ...
2019-05-18T18:32:34 < Cracki> but only the non-2 smartfusion seems to have dacs and adcs
2019-05-18T18:42:43 -!- jon1012 [~jon1012@foresight/developer/jon1012] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2019-05-18T18:42:56 < karlp> TIL this stuff existed: https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/m/molex/lumalink-tracer-cables
2019-05-18T18:44:55 < mawk> wow it's expensive
2019-05-18T18:47:48 < Thorn> can you even solder this without an oven? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/nRF52840-Bluetooth-5-0-240MHz-RF-Transceiver-CDSENET-E73-2G4M08S1C-8dbm-Ceramic-Antenna-BLE-4-2/32906661666.html
2019-05-18T18:48:24 < mawk> you have others like this but where the pins in the bottom are not critical Thorn 
2019-05-18T18:48:25 < mawk> it's what I did
2019-05-18T18:48:35 < mawk> then I just used an iron
2019-05-18T18:48:57 < Cracki> sure you can, these castellated holes work fine with an iron
2019-05-18T18:49:26 < mawk> he means for the pads on the bottom I think
2019-05-18T18:49:30 < Cracki> 1.27mm spacing is very doable
2019-05-18T18:49:33 < Cracki> oh
2019-05-18T18:49:35 < mawk> Thorn: https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Holyiot-18010-nordique-nRF52840-module-Bluetooth-basse-nergie-carte-de-d-veloppement-pour-BLE-mesh-bluetooth/32868002366.html
2019-05-18T18:49:38 < Cracki> right, there are pads...
2019-05-18T18:49:41 < mawk> for this ones the bottom pads are not critical
2019-05-18T18:49:45 < mawk> just a bunch of gpios
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2019-05-18T18:49:48 < mawk> you can leave them floating
2019-05-18T18:49:50 < Thorn> it looks like most GPIOs are in the 2nd row
2019-05-18T18:50:02 < Cracki> or make holes/slots in the baseboard and poke the iron through that
2019-05-18T18:50:07 < Thorn> I want my GPIOs
2019-05-18T18:50:11 < mawk> you have other gpios
2019-05-18T18:50:15 < mawk> you don't need all of them
2019-05-18T18:51:11 < mawk> one without the fake CGI shield: https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/product/Nordic-nRF52840-Bluetooth-module-grid-development-board-BLE5-0-Bluetooth-serial-low-power-voice-long-distance/420533_32868365660.html
2019-05-18T18:51:18 < mawk> is the one I soldered
2019-05-18T18:51:41 < mawk> "Introdruction"
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2019-05-18T18:53:02 < Thorn> wtf why aren't these in my search results
2019-05-18T18:53:04 < mawk> but you think hot hair won't do ?
2019-05-18T18:53:08 < mawk> hot air
2019-05-18T18:53:09 < mawk> lol
2019-05-18T18:53:16 < Thorn> I searched for nrf52840 and didn't get those
2019-05-18T18:53:23 < mawk> yeah they seemed a bit hidden
2019-05-18T18:53:29 < mawk> I knew the manufacturer name so I just searched for that
2019-05-18T18:53:31 < mawk> holy iot
2019-05-18T18:53:48 < mawk> their business card mentions it's for use in smart dildos
2019-05-18T18:55:59 < Cracki> holy anal probe cartman!
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2019-05-18T19:05:35 < Thorn> hole iot
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2019-05-18T19:07:42 < Cracki> the internet is a series of holes, or axe wounds
2019-05-18T19:11:33 < neverville> I realize that I need either gdb or ozone for a debugger bridge for my STM32, can anybody specify some links for installing them?
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2019-05-18T19:13:10 < Cracki> official documentation or search engine didn't help?
2019-05-18T19:15:47 < Thorn> neverville: gdb comes with arm-gcc toolchains. ozone is @ segger.com
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2019-05-18T19:20:59 < mawk> making footprints in pcb soft is relaxing
2019-05-18T19:22:21 < neverville> Thorn, as in pre-installed?
2019-05-18T19:22:57 < Thorn> if you have arm-none-eabi-gcc you should also have arm-none-eabi-gdb right next to it
2019-05-18T19:24:58 < neverville> I think I don't have those.
2019-05-18T19:25:39 < Cracki> maybe you need to explain what you have
2019-05-18T19:27:59 < neverville> Cracki, nothing, got my STM today I had my old notes on what the prequesites are, but I don't know where to start the installation.
2019-05-18T19:28:14 < Cracki> what "stm" do you have
2019-05-18T19:28:18 < Cracki> a chip without anything
2019-05-18T19:28:21 < Cracki> a development board
2019-05-18T19:28:54 < neverville> one of those discovery boardswith STM32F100 chip
2019-05-18T19:31:41 < Cracki> show me
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2019-05-18T19:32:10 < neverville> https://www.evelta.com/boards-kits-and-programmers/embedded-development-tools/arm/stm32vl-discovery?language=en&currency=INR&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2v7mBRC1ARIsAAiw34_y4xcv9rSnxJPh5dZp1L_b0Hzd_1IYvQYRnOKHEiuQHMA4o9oG2vgaAuMfEALw_wcB
2019-05-18T19:32:12 < Cracki> if it's a real discovery board, attach it via usb and then download the "stm32cubeIDE" to get started
2019-05-18T19:32:39 < Cracki> or visit what it says on the pcb, www.st.com/stm32-discovery
2019-05-18T19:32:44 < Cracki> it'll show you the software you need
2019-05-18T19:34:01 < neverville> Cracki, so all those gdb, texane and things?
2019-05-18T19:34:17 < Cracki> included.
2019-05-18T19:34:41 < Cracki> ST made that IDE and put everything in there.
2019-05-18T19:36:52 < neverville> so there is no need installing everything piece by piece?
2019-05-18T19:37:06 < neverville> and do I need libopenCM3?
2019-05-18T19:38:58 < Cracki> no need, and no
2019-05-18T19:39:16 < Cracki> get stm32cubeIDE to get started.
2019-05-18T19:39:51 < Cracki> you can choose alternatives to cubeIDE but cubeIDE is probably the simplest way to start
2019-05-18T19:45:07 < neverville> Cracki, thanks.
2019-05-18T19:48:09 < neverville> It's a eclipse like interface.
2019-05-18T19:48:19 < Cracki> https://i.imgur.com/iuCCPyw.jpg
2019-05-18T19:48:59 < Cracki> it's eclipse and https://gnu-mcu-eclipse.github.io/ and some rebranding
2019-05-18T19:51:48 < neverville> hey, atleast it's neat.
2019-05-18T19:51:54 < neverville> not much hassle.
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2019-05-18T19:58:25 < Steffanx> Since when its gun mcu eclipse?
2019-05-18T19:58:46 < Steffanx> Afaik truestudio wasn't that at all
2019-05-18T20:02:53 < neverville> okay step 1 is blink script right?
2019-05-18T20:05:29 < Cracki> that's a good start
2019-05-18T20:10:44 < neverville> I have a lot of settings here, I see a clocktree diagram, have everything to the start value for now?
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2019-05-18T20:12:39 < Cracki> that might work
2019-05-18T20:13:05 < Cracki> when you press "solve", it moves everything into acceptable ranges
2019-05-18T20:15:19 < neverville> the internal LED is referenced to PC9 right?
2019-05-18T20:22:47 < boddax> PA11 and PA12 inside the code is declared as real pin number?
2019-05-18T20:23:39 < boddax> they are pin 44 and 45  ( GPIO_InitStructure.GPIO_Pin = GPIO_Pin_11;)
2019-05-18T20:24:39 < dongs> no, they're always PA11/12
2019-05-18T20:24:42 < Cracki> that depends on your board
2019-05-18T20:24:48 < Cracki> find a schematic for your board
2019-05-18T20:24:53 < neverville> boddax, I am starting STM now, so in layman terms please
2019-05-18T20:25:00 < Cracki> it'll say what  "number" goes to what actual pin
2019-05-18T20:25:42 < boddax> so the real pin number phisally soldered on the pcb 
2019-05-18T20:25:51 < Cracki> in your product page ( https://www.evelta.com/boards-kits-and-programmers/embedded-development-tools/arm/stm32vl-discovery?language=en&currency=INR&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2v7mBRC1ARIsAAiw34_y4xcv9rSnxJPh5dZp1L_b0Hzd_1IYvQYRnOKHEiuQHMA4o9oG2vgaAuMfEALw_wcB )
2019-05-18T20:25:54 < dongs> in datasheet
2019-05-18T20:25:56 < Cracki> click discovery user manual
2019-05-18T20:26:57 < boddax> ok thanks
2019-05-18T20:27:01 < Cracki> for that stm32VL disco, only led 3 and 4 are user-usable, and they're on pc9 and pc8
2019-05-18T20:27:19 < Cracki> which is pins 9 and 9 on port C
2019-05-18T20:27:37 < Cracki> you find that in section 2.4
2019-05-18T20:28:29 < Cracki> discoboards never have "arduino numbers". they always have actual pin numbers from the controller chip
2019-05-18T20:30:17 < neverville> Yeah saw them right now, the organization is more and more like 8051 like.
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2019-05-18T20:35:13 < boddax> <neverville> i've started minutes ago with stm too
2019-05-18T20:36:20 < neverville> my learning curve is poor when I am not drunk.
2019-05-18T20:36:49 < boddax> try to build github source code for cnc firmware driven by stm32 ..but seems i am unable to do it lol
2019-05-18T20:37:14 < neverville> link please?
2019-05-18T20:37:40 < boddax> https://github.com/usbcnc/grbl
2019-05-18T20:38:21 < boddax> my board has same family mcu but slightly different i was try to do some modification to adapt
2019-05-18T20:38:37 < boddax> i guess problem is assigned pin
2019-05-18T20:39:00 < boddax> my mcu is 64pin the one wroted source 48pin
2019-05-18T20:39:13 < neverville> I am starting from literally the barebone, it's been really long time I did something in embedded, so I need to take it slow.
2019-05-18T20:39:48 < boddax> all right <neverville> lets drink a beer
2019-05-18T20:40:40 < boddax> for the moment not yet found the file with pin map
2019-05-18T20:43:01 < neverville> craft ones please.
2019-05-18T20:46:48 < Steffanx> Back to arduino it is? :P
2019-05-18T20:48:32 < boddax> lol no better to learn something new
2019-05-18T20:49:27 < Steffanx> something new or something borrowed got to TLC it.
2019-05-18T20:50:23 < boddax> i m not developer just hobbist making pcb with cnc machine
2019-05-18T20:51:08 < boddax> but i like to learn a bit and no plan to devel anything
2019-05-18T20:53:02 < boddax> for sure its easy to port this kind of code from stm32f103c8t6 to stm32f103rct6 almost the same change pinout and memory amount 
2019-05-18T20:53:30 < boddax> easy for those who knows what to do lol
2019-05-18T20:53:43 < Steffanx> shouldnt be that hard indeed.
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2019-05-18T20:54:58 < boddax> if i can atleast make the usb working then i can go on with other mods
2019-05-18T21:08:28 < neverville> Now how can I flash this to my board?
2019-05-18T21:08:36 < neverville> can't find any options in run
2019-05-18T21:10:07 < boddax> st-link jtag
2019-05-18T21:11:49 < neverville> I think my board has stlink built with it.
2019-05-18T21:12:40 < Cracki> cubeide has no "run", it has debug only
2019-05-18T21:12:56 < Cracki> 'debug' it, then it is flashed and started with a breakpoint on main()
2019-05-18T21:13:00 < Cracki> continue to let it run
2019-05-18T21:13:07 < neverville> so the next step, code build was okay.
2019-05-18T21:13:27 < Cracki> there are articles on how to add a command to just flash
2019-05-18T21:13:39 < Cracki> discoboards have stlink on them, that's right
2019-05-18T21:14:02 < neverville> and I have an access error.
2019-05-18T21:14:07 < Cracki> you can repurpose that for your own designs too. or buy a separate stlink (v2.1 or so). aliexpress has stlink clones for little money
2019-05-18T21:14:10 < neverville> *permission
2019-05-18T21:14:17 < Cracki> odd
2019-05-18T21:14:53 < neverville> yeah, need time to see what happened here.
2019-05-18T21:24:44 < neverville> need to reboot.
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2019-05-18T22:31:31 < neverville> Cracki, now it says check power and cabling to target.
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2019-05-18T23:39:51 < aandrew> lol
2019-05-18T23:39:57 < aandrew> uVision V(null)
2019-05-18T23:42:54 < Steffanx> From what i understand it was going down the drain anyway
2019-05-18T23:44:00 < zyp> who needs uvision when you've got eurovision?
2019-05-18T23:44:50 < Steffanx> Hows norway doing? I heard they sing "going to holland, going to holland" 
2019-05-18T23:45:01 < Steffanx> At least is pretty much sounds like that in dutch. 
2019-05-18T23:45:11 < zyp> haha
2019-05-18T23:45:12 < Steffanx> Since dutch was misspelled norwegian it must be right.
2019-05-18T23:45:19 < Steffanx> *it
2019-05-18T23:45:30 < zyp> there's no norwegian in it, it's mixed english/sami
2019-05-18T23:45:39 < Steffanx> ah ok
2019-05-18T23:49:07 < Steffanx> https://youtu.be/yKoEt0-9ujA?t=138 there you go "Naar holland, naar holland" :P
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2019-05-18T23:53:25 < Cracki> neverville, search the discoboard manual for "jumpers" or anything you have to set right so the onboard stlink module is actually connected to the target controller
2019-05-18T23:53:57 < Cracki> also check if that discoboard can power its target from usb, and if that requires a jumper to sit right
2019-05-18T23:54:22 < Cracki> all that should have been right from factory but better to check
--- Day changed Sun May 19 2019
2019-05-19T00:00:23 < neverville> jumper CN3 must be enabled for me to program the board, and CN3 if disabled manual tells something swd support.
2019-05-19T00:04:37 < neverville> and I think usb can power this.
2019-05-19T00:04:49 < neverville> I see the LD2 on so.
2019-05-19T00:24:36 < Cracki> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38092674/error-in-initializing-st-link-device
2019-05-19T00:25:02 < Cracki> I'd bet it's the swd/jtag issue.
2019-05-19T00:25:09 < Cracki> people always talk about jtag even when they mean swd.
2019-05-19T00:25:16 < Cracki> so that will confuse newbies.
2019-05-19T00:25:25 < Cracki> swd isn't jtag
2019-05-19T00:26:20 < Cracki> jtag also isn't a catch-all term for debugging devices
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2019-05-19T00:39:33 < zyp> Cracki, some people use it as such
2019-05-19T00:41:13 < Cracki> some people also pick their noses with a dremel
2019-05-19T00:42:03 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
2019-05-19T00:42:12 < Cracki> emergency room personnel would be out of a job without those people
2019-05-19T00:46:29 < neverville> Cracki,  https://imgur.com/a/8NPl83c this is my debug profile.
2019-05-19T00:47:02 < Cracki> I would say that looks ok
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2019-05-19T00:48:23 < neverville> and I still run into that issue, it says me to check the power and cabling, I mean what in royal dildo should I check one cable, I got the jumpers too on the clear.
2019-05-19T00:48:46 < kakimir> is STM32 MCU debugging better than OpenOCD debugging?
2019-05-19T00:49:19 < neverville> https://imgur.com/a/E8iKQwf, Cracki my main debug output.
2019-05-19T00:49:46 < neverville> kakimir, I am starting stm now, so I want a relatively easy way.
2019-05-19T00:51:02 < Cracki> "target unknown error 27" gives no google results, curiously
2019-05-19T00:51:29 < Cracki> now I would like to know if this means "target unknown" or error "27" is unknown
2019-05-19T00:51:48 < neverville> even me.
2019-05-19T00:51:51 < Cracki> anyone know where to find the source for that stlink gdb server?
2019-05-19T00:52:17 < kakimir> why not just openocd it
2019-05-19T00:52:35 < Cracki> cubeide doesn't do that by itself :P
2019-05-19T00:52:41 < kakimir> no target unknowns
2019-05-19T00:53:01 < kakimir> but yeah it's a task to install openocd support
2019-05-19T00:53:07 < zyp> Cracki, which? texane?
2019-05-19T00:53:27 < Cracki> I'm looking at that image and it says "STMicroelectronics ST-LINK GDB server"
2019-05-19T00:53:40 < zyp> oh, I didn't open it
2019-05-19T00:53:47 < Cracki> and when google doesn't find some error message, my next step is to read the source
2019-05-19T00:53:58 < zyp> probably closedsource :)
2019-05-19T00:54:03 < Cracki> good bet
2019-05-19T00:54:32 < zyp> from the text I'm guessing the error means it can't find the stlink usb device at all
2019-05-19T00:54:38 < Cracki> maybe it's a driver problem, who knows
2019-05-19T00:54:59 < Cracki> neverville, does this run in a VM or something?
2019-05-19T00:55:09 < zyp> could be a permission issue
2019-05-19T00:55:10 < neverville> Nope Ubuntu 18.04
2019-05-19T00:55:21 < neverville> No VM.
2019-05-19T00:55:42 < neverville> zyp, I updated the udev rules, still this persist
2019-05-19T00:56:54 < Thorn> does lsusb show the st-link?
2019-05-19T00:57:22 < neverville> Bus 001 Device 011: ID 0483:3744 STMicroelectronics STLINK Pseudo disk
2019-05-19T00:57:28 < kakimir> are you in group plugdev?
2019-05-19T00:57:42 < zyp> wait
2019-05-19T00:57:49 < zyp> which stlink is this?
2019-05-19T00:57:57 < kakimir> what is psuedo disk?
2019-05-19T00:58:05 < neverville> No st-link it's a discovery board.
2019-05-19T00:58:06 < zyp> this wouldn't happen to be a stm32vl-discovery?
2019-05-19T00:58:07 < Cracki> might not be a proper stlink? https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/stm32vldiscovery.html
2019-05-19T00:58:14 < Cracki> it is indeed
2019-05-19T00:58:35 < zyp> those have stlink v1, with some sort of shitty SCSI interface
2019-05-19T00:58:44 < zyp> wouldn't be surprised if it's not supported anymore
2019-05-19T00:58:47 < Cracki> it says "st-link" but... this would indicate not, or it has a weird usb mass storage mode?
2019-05-19T00:58:50 < Cracki> ugh
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2019-05-19T00:59:35 < Cracki> so... one workaround would be getting a separate st-link (v2) and using jumper wires to connect it
2019-05-19T00:59:43 < zyp> I suggest spending $10 or whatever on a newer discovery board :)
2019-05-19T00:59:43 < neverville> I have a stlink v2
2019-05-19T00:59:51 < Thorn> that discovery board (and the f100 familiy in general) was the 1st stm32-related thing released by ST 10(?) years ago
2019-05-19T00:59:52 < zyp> oh
2019-05-19T01:00:00 < Thorn> it should really be NRND by now
2019-05-19T01:00:01 < zyp> is this a v2.1 with the mbed stuff then?
2019-05-19T01:00:19 < zyp> neverville, which particular board do you have?
2019-05-19T01:00:40 < neverville> as in discovery board right?
2019-05-19T01:00:44 < zyp> yes
2019-05-19T01:01:18 < neverville> STM32F1 value line with F100RBT6 chip
2019-05-19T01:01:33 < Cracki> here's a tutorial for making it workw ith truestudio, which is what cubeIDE used to be https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/user_manual/24/df/3a/30/73/31/4e/9b/CD00283787.pdf/files/CD00283787.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00283787.pdf
2019-05-19T01:01:43 < zyp> neverville, stm32vldiscovery?
2019-05-19T01:01:56 < neverville> yeah, zyp 
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2019-05-19T01:02:02 < zyp> those are stlink v1
2019-05-19T01:02:17 < neverville> will a config fix work?
2019-05-19T01:02:35 < zyp> I don't know, I don't have any personal experience with v1
2019-05-19T01:02:40 < zyp> just heard bad stories :)
2019-05-19T01:02:53 < neverville> I can write one now.
2019-05-19T01:03:08 < Cracki> according to those windows-xp-themed screenshots, selecting "st-link" _used_ to work...
2019-05-19T01:03:22 < zyp> anyway, I'm with Thorn on this
2019-05-19T01:03:33 < Cracki> if you have a separate stlink v2, try that. if that works, that's evidence
2019-05-19T01:03:48 < zyp> or just spend $10 or something on a newer board
2019-05-19T01:04:11 < zyp> both stlink v1 and the fact it's a f100 are reasons to not pick the vl-discovery
2019-05-19T01:04:42 < neverville> zyp, in india it's not $10 we have a shitty tax policy that pushes the cost upto $30
2019-05-19T01:04:56 < neverville> that's just the board then plus customs 
2019-05-19T01:05:39 < Cracki> standalone stlink v2 clone from aliex was less than 2 eurobucks last time I ordered one
2019-05-19T01:05:47 < zyp> I'd still spend the $30 then :)
2019-05-19T01:05:52 < Cracki> heh
2019-05-19T01:06:34 < Cracki> before today I wasn't aware that F10-zero even exist(ed)
2019-05-19T01:06:39 < neverville> I'll first try he v2 workaround tomorrow morning, next i'll have atollic studio.
2019-05-19T01:09:14 < kakimir> usb storage should be ignored somehow
2019-05-19T01:09:55 < kakimir> http://fabooh.com/2014/03/16/how-to-deal-with-a-problematic-stm32-st-linkv1-device-and-ubuntu/
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2019-05-19T01:11:14 < kakimir> documentations starts to fade away.. links are dead.. it's a puzzle
2019-05-19T01:11:34 -!- Rajko [~Rajko@cable-178-149-212-76.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined ##stm32
2019-05-19T01:11:53 < neverville> Anyways will tell you people tomorrow if all these worked, I need to sleep bye.
2019-05-19T01:11:56 -!- neverville [~virgil@49.204.221.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-05-19T01:12:05 < Cracki> download all the things
2019-05-19T01:12:34 < kakimir> airgap your shiet
2019-05-19T01:13:06 < Cracki> cba
2019-05-19T01:13:26 < kakimir> yeah
2019-05-19T01:13:32 < Cracki> backups are good enough
2019-05-19T01:14:43 < Cracki> btw, st-link v3 announced some months ago https://blog.st.com/stlink-v3set-in-circuit-debugger-programmer/
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2019-05-19T01:15:17 < englishman> another quality zyp install https://i.imgur.com/nyLoluK.jpg
2019-05-19T01:15:24 < kakimir> hmm it looks like first reasonable stlink
2019-05-19T01:15:29 < kakimir> that I could concider
2019-05-19T01:15:53 < Cracki> been using jewlinks so far?
2019-05-19T01:16:10 < kakimir> mainly
2019-05-19T01:16:14 < Cracki> oh boy > theoretical speeds
2019-05-19T01:17:16 < zyp> englishman, haha
2019-05-19T01:21:11 < Cracki> the thing lists SWO, but no trace capability
2019-05-19T01:28:09 < kakimir> maybe they left trace capability for community to implement
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2019-05-19T01:38:15 < Cracki> four hundred and eighty eight jiggerbits!
2019-05-19T01:42:03 < kakimir> it's achually pretty nice saturday
2019-05-19T01:43:36 < kakimir> almost finished one project started in 2015
2019-05-19T01:48:13 < Cracki> today I only ordered a ladder and borrowed a ladder. tomorrow I will climb it.
2019-05-19T01:48:26 < kakimir> how long?
2019-05-19T01:48:50 < kakimir> you ordered first and then asked neighbour if you could use his?
2019-05-19T01:48:51 < Cracki> double-thingied ones. the nabbed one is 0.9m, the ordered one 1.3m
2019-05-19T01:49:05 < zyp> 0.9m ladder?
2019-05-19T01:49:09 < zyp> a step ladder?
2019-05-19T01:49:12 < Cracki> yes those A-shaped ones
2019-05-19T01:49:15 < zyp> ah
2019-05-19T01:49:21 < kakimir> we call it A-tikas
2019-05-19T01:49:40 < Cracki> tomorrow I'll need it, but I'll need one handy anyway, so I ordered ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-05-19T01:49:43 < zyp> we call it gardintrapp (literally «curtain stairs»)
2019-05-19T01:49:47 < kakimir> I bought one just to install lights to my appartment
2019-05-19T01:50:01 < Cracki> germans have one word for all of those things, Leiter
2019-05-19T01:50:02 < zyp> I borrowed one last I needed one
2019-05-19T01:50:09 < zyp> but I need to buy one soon
2019-05-19T01:50:17 < Cracki> it's like sausages. we call all the kinds Wurst.
2019-05-19T01:50:18 < zyp> gonna replace the ceilingmount wifi ap soon
2019-05-19T01:50:47 < Cracki> my ceilings are 3.3m high... that was one reason I went for the 1.3m and not just a little step ladder
2019-05-19T01:51:00 < zyp> yeah, something like that here too
2019-05-19T01:51:18 < kakimir> my ceiling is tilted
2019-05-19T01:51:25 < Cracki> that one ceiling lamp... I'm waiting for it to drop. it's one of those white glass ikea ones.
2019-05-19T01:51:33 < Cracki> but it's not sitting in its mount properly
2019-05-19T01:51:52 < zyp> kakimir, mine too
2019-05-19T01:51:59 < Cracki> and I haven't touched it in years... when I moved in I had a borrowed ladder too...
2019-05-19T01:52:08 < zyp> lowest point is at 2m, highest is around 3m
2019-05-19T01:52:14 < Cracki> nice ceilings
2019-05-19T01:52:22 < Cracki> put bed under high side, add a projector
2019-05-19T01:54:13 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/v3vXg.jpg
2019-05-19T01:54:19 < Cracki> finally bought a bunch of shelves to put all my shit in. might even be space left for a window-side soldering place
2019-05-19T01:54:36 < Cracki> review on that ladder?
2019-05-19T01:54:48 < Cracki> I saw those telescope things too but don't trust them
2019-05-19T01:54:52 < kakimir> zyp: expensive ladder
2019-05-19T01:54:55 < Cracki> is it a telescope thing?
2019-05-19T01:55:12 < kakimir> I have not even heard of telescope A-ladder
2019-05-19T01:55:44 < Cracki> same. prolly more stable than simple ones
2019-05-19T01:56:04 < zyp> yeah
2019-05-19T01:56:07 < zyp> I didn't like it
2019-05-19T01:56:17 < zyp> I'd rather buy a plain step ladder
2019-05-19T01:56:34 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c700:d26:d4f4:cdc2:ab39:2c07] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2019-05-19T01:56:55 < zyp> the steps are kinda uncomfortable to stand on without shoes
2019-05-19T01:57:03 < Cracki> there are those foldy things too, three joints, you can arrange them as an A or as a ∏
2019-05-19T01:57:10 < Cracki> (platform)
2019-05-19T01:57:21 < zyp> yeah, the seem kinda shitty
2019-05-19T01:57:29 < Cracki> right, that was another reason I went for a step ladder. the steps are flat and I can balance on them.
2019-05-19T01:58:02 < zyp> yeah, and when you're standing at the top step you can lock in your knees between the top to help balance
2019-05-19T01:58:18 < Cracki> those lambda-shaped ones, with a bow/handle on top, seem in the way to me when I want to move stuff
2019-05-19T01:58:42 < Cracki> so what I got is literally just an A
2019-05-19T01:58:58 < zyp> oh
2019-05-19T01:59:06 < zyp> no, I like the lambda ones
2019-05-19T01:59:46 < Cracki> the one I borrowed is the one I use at uni for our little beverage shop, to move stuff on top of racks and such
2019-05-19T02:00:17 < Cracki> just the right height. I would be stepping on empty crates otherwise.
2019-05-19T02:00:26 < zyp> https://www.gaus.no/ep_bilder//4146/431620-39f7c7f1fdfcc2da1fdaa0481ee16631.jpeg <- this is good shit
2019-05-19T02:00:34 < Cracki> sturdy
2019-05-19T02:00:42 < zyp> pro quality and four times as expensive as I want to pay though :p
2019-05-19T02:01:03 < zyp> used one of those a bunch when I worked as an electrician
2019-05-19T02:01:19 < Cracki> oh yes, I got away with paying <50 euros but I saw wares for 100-200 bucks and easily beyond
2019-05-19T02:02:20 < Cracki> oh there's a couch in the corner of the pic
2019-05-19T02:03:28 < zyp> yeah?
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2019-05-19T02:04:40 < Cracki> I love places with corners
2019-05-19T02:04:52 < Cracki> the opposite of cubicle farm office buildings
2019-05-19T02:05:44 < zyp> there's a house in my neighborhood that looks like an office building from the outside
2019-05-19T02:06:28 < Cracki> houses with flat roof should be forbidden, not just for the lack of aesthetics, but for the dumb engineering. let it snow a little and it collapses
2019-05-19T02:07:09 < zyp> eh
2019-05-19T02:07:23 < Cracki> even the relatively similarly built houses between here and my home town look worlds apart
2019-05-19T02:07:48 < Cracki> here it's flat facades. back home it's decoration everywhere.
2019-05-19T02:07:58 < zyp> over here there are clear requirements on how much snow a roof must be engineered to withstand
2019-05-19T02:08:29 < Cracki> they'll just add steel beams here, I'm sure
2019-05-19T02:08:29 < zyp> I'm not a super fan of slanted ceilings
2019-05-19T02:08:39 < Cracki> attic space!
2019-05-19T02:08:48 < zyp> no thanks
2019-05-19T02:08:56 < Cracki> my grandparents' old farm house had those dusty old attics
2019-05-19T02:09:10 < Cracki> either the cats or the pigeons or both would always make some noise up there
2019-05-19T02:09:27 < zyp> my old room at my parents house is on the top floor, has slanted ceilings
2019-05-19T02:09:44 < Cracki> it's not meant for living :P
2019-05-19T02:09:48 < zyp> like only a meter up at the lowest
2019-05-19T02:09:55 < zyp> haha
2019-05-19T02:09:56 < Cracki> it's for cats and pigeons and old dusty stuff
2019-05-19T02:10:09 < Cracki> or drying clothes and collected walnuts
2019-05-19T02:10:56 < zyp> the current solution is an acceptable compromise though
2019-05-19T02:11:41 < zyp> 2m at the lowest keeps the entire room area usable (although I had to put some thought into making the kitchen fit)
2019-05-19T02:13:00 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/FqB8G.png <- ended up adding a wall just to have something to put the fridge against
2019-05-19T02:13:18 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/PwjHm.png
2019-05-19T02:13:53 < Cracki> good for hiding the cables that would otherwise hang from the ceiling or come out of a bottomless pit in the floor
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2019-05-19T02:14:57 < zyp> ended up pretty nice: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XrkZn.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/eu8xE.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/PoGWT.jpg
2019-05-19T02:15:27 < Cracki> the lighting impresses
2019-05-19T02:15:32 < zyp> and it forms a nice divide between the kitchen part and the rest of the living room
2019-05-19T02:15:55 < zyp> in the first photo? that was a randomly placed led floodlight :p
2019-05-19T02:16:18 < zyp> didn't yet have ceiling lights at the time
2019-05-19T02:16:20 < Cracki> nah the lights onto the work surfaces
2019-05-19T02:16:24 < zyp> ah
2019-05-19T02:16:42 < zyp> those are ikea led bars
2019-05-19T02:17:09 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/6XJHC.jpg
2019-05-19T02:17:33 < kakimir> that looks like a desk where you cut the fish
2019-05-19T02:17:46 < Steffanx> Do you use those IKEA tradfri buttons or.. do you have to use a phone?
2019-05-19T02:18:15 < zyp> Steffanx, for now I have a button stuck to the wall
2019-05-19T02:18:36 < zyp> but the end goal of my zigbee project is to have some nice integrated switches instead
2019-05-19T02:19:14 < Steffanx> kakimir: what did do? You helped dutchland win the euro rap
2019-05-19T02:19:23 < Steffanx> Now we have that shit here next year
2019-05-19T02:19:37 < zyp> in the old apartment I also had alexa set up to control all the lights, but I've yet to reconfigure it for the new layout here
2019-05-19T02:19:37 < Steffanx> Crap*
2019-05-19T02:20:13 < kakimir> congratts
2019-05-19T02:20:20 < Steffanx> No.
2019-05-19T02:20:22 < zyp> partly because at the moment I only have smart lights in the kitchen/livingroom, and switching them all at once with one button works well enough for now
2019-05-19T02:20:28 < zyp> Steffanx, also, congrats :)
2019-05-19T02:21:11 < kakimir> I could not even tell what is ntlnds song
2019-05-19T02:21:22 < kakimir> I don't have television receiver
2019-05-19T02:21:38 < zyp> some guy with a piano IIRC
2019-05-19T02:21:55 < Steffanx> Arcade something.
2019-05-19T02:22:05 < kakimir> what..
2019-05-19T02:22:12 < kakimir> that won.. how?
2019-05-19T02:22:20 < Steffanx> Idk
2019-05-19T02:22:25 < zyp> yeah, I don't know either
2019-05-19T02:22:31 < Steffanx> One button for it all. Hah
2019-05-19T02:24:26 < mawk> I lowered substitution treatment dose, now I feel like dying
2019-05-19T02:24:36 < mawk> back pain is 10 on homeless junkie scale
2019-05-19T02:25:10 < Steffanx> Back pain. You're not an old grandpa are you?
2019-05-19T02:25:15 < Steffanx> What did you do?
2019-05-19T02:25:27 < mawk> I just said it, I lowered substitution treatment dose
2019-05-19T02:25:31 < mawk> so I get withdrawal symptoms
2019-05-19T02:25:37 < kakimir> crack cocaine
2019-05-19T02:25:57 < Steffanx> I didn't know back pain was such symptom
2019-05-19T02:29:01 < Steffanx> Doesn't that mean the step was a bit too big mawk 
2019-05-19T02:29:05 < Steffanx> Step down
2019-05-19T02:29:13 < mawk> it's -15%
2019-05-19T02:29:18 < mawk> maybe too big
2019-05-19T02:29:33 < kakimir> do you know how drugs work stef
2019-05-19T02:29:58 < mawk> back pain, nausea, diarrhea, hot and cold flushing, cluster headache, restlessness, restless legs syndrome, blablabla
2019-05-19T02:30:10 < mawk> that's when it's low intensity withdrawal
2019-05-19T02:30:24 < mawk> when it's higher than that you'd sell your little sister to alleviate that
2019-05-19T02:30:56 < mawk> me the worst I've done is ride a bike for like ten hours in the rain to find a dose, I'm a little player
2019-05-19T02:31:04 < mawk> in the forest
2019-05-19T02:31:15 < Steffanx> I don't do drugs mr kakimir . Do you?
2019-05-19T02:31:22 < kakimir> keeps you slim mawk 
2019-05-19T02:31:46 < mawk> lol yeah
2019-05-19T02:32:01 < mawk> my body mass index is like 17
2019-05-19T02:32:07 < kakimir> what is this current thing of yours?
2019-05-19T02:32:24 < kakimir> what are you leveling off from?
2019-05-19T02:32:40 < Cracki> -15% sounds mild... doses at what spacing?
2019-05-19T02:32:41 < mawk> methadone
2019-05-19T02:32:55 < mawk> I had 80mg, lowered to 77.5, 75, 70, 65, 60, now 50
2019-05-19T02:33:13 < kakimir> is this for medical purpose?
2019-05-19T02:33:24 < mawk> yes
2019-05-19T02:33:27 < mawk> doctor approved
2019-05-19T02:33:30 < kakimir> what did you break?
2019-05-19T02:33:36 < Cracki> last stuff I had to phase out of was some SSRI. took it daily, that already had noticeable "ripple". halving dose had effect, but nothing serious.
2019-05-19T02:33:37 < mawk> a bit of everything
2019-05-19T02:33:47 < Steffanx> Suddenly I get the idea kakimir  is an expert :P
2019-05-19T02:33:56 < mawk> lol
2019-05-19T02:34:07 < mawk> kakimir: every opiate you could name except heroin, I guess
2019-05-19T02:34:12 < mawk> heroin was too expensive for me
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2019-05-19T02:34:50 < Cracki> so 60 -> 50 was too big a step then
2019-05-19T02:35:15 < mawk> yes maybe
2019-05-19T02:35:20 < mawk> but I don't have 5mgs at hand
2019-05-19T02:35:26 < mawk> maybe I can open the gelcap and split the beads in half
2019-05-19T02:35:27 < Cracki> that sucks
2019-05-19T02:35:35 < mawk> I see the doc in 2 months
2019-05-19T02:35:38 < Cracki> or modulate the intervals
2019-05-19T02:35:45 < kakimir> Steffanx: I don't have an idea..
2019-05-19T02:35:48 < kakimir> I just play along
2019-05-19T02:36:12 < Cracki> letsplay detoxing from drugs, don't forget to like and subscribe
2019-05-19T02:36:16 < mawk> lol
2019-05-19T02:36:26 < kakimir> ##selfmedication32
2019-05-19T02:36:32 < mawk> it's not self ! doctor approved I said
2019-05-19T02:36:45 < mawk> I fix the docs computer when I see him
2019-05-19T02:36:51 < mawk> and he gives me legal drugs
2019-05-19T02:36:53 < mawk> good deal
2019-05-19T02:38:30 < mawk> last time he received a verified by visa sms from his bank without purchasing anything, "say mawk I received this text 'you made a 900€ purchase from shadysite.com, enter this code to complete the transaction' it's a bit odd, maybe I should call the bank ?"
2019-05-19T02:38:39 < Cracki> reduction percentages: -3.1,  -3.2,  -6.7,  -7.1,  -7.7, -16.7
2019-05-19T02:38:40 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G1soKzXJUo musics recommended by kakimirs
2019-05-19T02:39:07 < Cracki> calling the bank sounds good
2019-05-19T02:39:35 < Cracki> uh "mummy and daddy made a... video"
2019-05-19T02:40:01 < kakimir> oh *musicvideo recommended by kakimirs
2019-05-19T02:40:55 < kakimir> calling an exorsist for his computer and cyber safety generally would be good
2019-05-19T02:41:31 < kakimir> also check doc's girlfriends if they are playing with his cards
2019-05-19T02:41:42 < mawk> lol
2019-05-19T02:41:48 < Cracki> plural.
2019-05-19T02:41:48 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-19T02:42:06 < mawk> he's not a girlfriends-plural type of guy, it's pretty shy
2019-05-19T02:42:18 < mawk> I'm sure if I yell at him asking for higher dose he will give it to me because he doesn't like conflict
2019-05-19T02:42:27 < mawk> he's*
2019-05-19T02:42:37 < Cracki> also you can wipe out his entire IT
2019-05-19T02:42:48 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-19T02:42:57 < mawk> it's just an appointment booking software launched in a web browser
2019-05-19T02:43:00 < mawk> nothing else much
2019-05-19T02:43:13 < mawk> and prescription software also
2019-05-19T02:52:55 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IsarHehAKwa1sLx6MS1sPkBBIzHf5r_Y/view?usp=sharing mounted keyboard level, eizo and computer box to lift
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2019-05-19T02:53:20 < kakimir> now I need to just wire the motor and threshold switches to those buttons
2019-05-19T02:54:09 < mawk> there's an illuminati symbol on a box near the grey basket
2019-05-19T02:54:10 < Cracki> what does that long screw near the wooden post do, height-adjust the table?
2019-05-19T02:54:14 < mawk> kakilluminati
2019-05-19T02:54:30 < kakimir> yes
2019-05-19T02:54:39 < kakimir> all seeing hand
2019-05-19T02:55:06 < kakimir> they call it ESD
2019-05-19T02:55:35 < Cracki> what are those salt shakers doing behind the dishwasher box?
2019-05-19T02:55:57 < kakimir> some chinese bullshit
2019-05-19T02:56:05 < kakimir> I put acetone in them and them failed
2019-05-19T02:56:19 < kakimir> I think those are called pump bootles
2019-05-19T02:56:22 < kakimir> bottles*
2019-05-19T02:56:25 < Cracki> ic
2019-05-19T02:56:47 < kakimir> 100% ipa worked for a while
2019-05-19T02:56:58 < kakimir> eventually pumping action failed in them too
2019-05-19T02:57:03 < kakimir> with acetone it was instant
2019-05-19T02:58:24 < kakimir> the monitor lift is operated by cordless electric drill
2019-05-19T02:59:04 < kakimir> that has standard diameter clamping surface
2019-05-19T03:00:17 < mawk> why are charge pumps only for low currents like 100mA ?
2019-05-19T03:00:28 < mawk> why can't we make bigger and bigger ones ? if they have extra high efficiencies
2019-05-19T03:00:28 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2GcdpJiNGfKVl9GamRSN1lmUHc/view?usp=sharing
2019-05-19T03:00:44 < kakimir> mawk: most use cases need just couple of milliamps
2019-05-19T03:00:58 < kakimir> you are free to implement higher current ones with discrete components
2019-05-19T03:00:59 < mawk> yes but some use cases need more
2019-05-19T03:01:08 < mawk> hmm
2019-05-19T03:01:15 < mawk> there are integrated boost for like 3A
2019-05-19T03:01:20 < mawk> and integrated charge pumps for 100mA
2019-05-19T03:01:23 < kakimir> then you preffer maybe cuck-regulator
2019-05-19T03:01:24 < mawk> why no integrated charge pumps for 1A ?
2019-05-19T03:01:33 < kakimir> sorry boost
2019-05-19T03:01:43 < mawk> yes I need buck-boost
2019-05-19T03:01:47 < kakimir> because cheaper
2019-05-19T03:01:55 < mawk> yes but lower efficiency
2019-05-19T03:02:03 < mawk> so with discrete components I can do mine ?
2019-05-19T03:02:07 < mawk> single li-ion cell and I need 3.3V
2019-05-19T03:02:16 < mawk> the cell goes from like 4.2 to less than 3.3
2019-05-19T03:02:22 < kakimir> how many amps you said?
2019-05-19T03:02:30 < mawk> for me less than 100mA so it's fine
2019-05-19T03:02:32 < mawk> but I was just wondering
2019-05-19T03:02:46 < kakimir> do you really need 3.3
2019-05-19T03:02:47 < mawk> I'll use MAX1759
2019-05-19T03:02:57 < mawk> I could use less if I only had the stm32
2019-05-19T03:03:08 < mawk> but I have 802.15.4 transceiver that needs 3.3
2019-05-19T03:03:25 < kakimir> many components say they need such and such
2019-05-19T03:03:40 < kakimir> but when you test them they might proof otherwise
2019-05-19T03:03:44 < mawk> hmm
2019-05-19T03:03:45 < mawk> I should try
2019-05-19T03:04:11 < mawk> anyway that thing is high efficiency it says, so it just costs money not battery life
2019-05-19T03:04:34 < mawk> but it seems expensive for what, an op amp, an oscillator
2019-05-19T03:04:41 < mawk> the caps are external even
2019-05-19T03:06:40 < Cracki> peak current might be high but briefly. big fat bypass caps maybe?
2019-05-19T03:07:01 < mawk> the bypass cap would be for higher peak voltage no ?
2019-05-19T03:07:10 < mawk> wouldn't I need fat coil for high peak current?
2019-05-19T03:07:14 < mawk> or I don't know
2019-05-19T03:07:15 < Cracki> larger cap also for longer current draw
2019-05-19T03:07:18 < mawk> I see
2019-05-19T03:07:27 < Cracki> "longer" in small time scales
2019-05-19T03:07:31 < mawk> they say 100mA is the guaranteed minimum
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2019-05-19T03:07:43 < mawk> higher currents would just drop the output voltage but it would work nonetheless I think
2019-05-19T03:07:54 < mawk> I could drop like at most 300mV
2019-05-19T03:07:59 < mawk> could attain 1A maybe
2019-05-19T03:08:14 < kakimir> without exact current profile it's hard to determine what is the best solution
2019-05-19T03:08:27 < Cracki> I once tried figuring what cap or inductor to use if I wanted to smooth some 2A 12V pwm'ed load for the psu... it was ridic
2019-05-19T03:08:34 < Rajko> you oscilloscope it
2019-05-19T03:08:46 < Rajko> just keep increasing until its smooth enough
2019-05-19T03:09:11 < kakimir> yeah iterate
2019-05-19T03:09:30 < mawk> or higher freq for the pump no ?
2019-05-19T03:09:36 < mawk> that lowers the cap sizes
2019-05-19T03:09:42 < Rajko> increase inductor for current spikes, capacitor for voltage spikes
2019-05-19T03:09:43 < kakimir> pumps are usually fized frewq
2019-05-19T03:09:54 < Rajko> you can change it via resistor on some
2019-05-19T03:10:01 < kakimir> interesting
2019-05-19T03:10:01 < mawk> yes but in the case of one with discrete composants kiki_lamb 
2019-05-19T03:10:04 < mawk> components
2019-05-19T03:10:05 < Rajko> higher frequency means more electrical noise but smaller inductor needed
2019-05-19T03:15:09 < Rajko> for discrete one you just need oscillator, comparator, body diode, mosfet, dont you ?
2019-05-19T03:15:28 < mawk> for charge pump right
2019-05-19T03:15:47 < mawk> yes for integral multiples I think
2019-05-19T03:16:00 < mawk> but maybe you need some kind of feedback if you want something else ?
2019-05-19T03:16:42 < Rajko> theres really no reason to use discrete one though
2019-05-19T03:16:52 < Rajko> integrated solutions are cents
2019-05-19T03:16:58 < mawk> yes but for <=100mA
2019-05-19T03:17:05 < mawk> so I asked for higher currents and kakimir said discrete
2019-05-19T03:17:24 < mawk> at least on maxim, I didn't look elsewhere but that's what I assumed
2019-05-19T03:17:26 < Rajko> what are you powering
2019-05-19T03:17:35 < mawk> it's just a general question, I don't need more than 100mA
2019-05-19T03:17:42 < mawk> but use case would be typically GSM
2019-05-19T03:17:47 < mawk> it needs like 1 or 2A peak
2019-05-19T03:17:52 < mawk> during tx
2019-05-19T03:18:28 < mawk> but I'd just use regular buck/boost then
2019-05-19T03:18:36 < kakimir> hmm is there application paper for driving transistors with pump ic?
2019-05-19T03:18:53 < mawk> https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/2031
2019-05-19T03:18:54 < mawk> this maybe
2019-05-19T03:18:58 < kakimir> like pump ic on steroids
2019-05-19T03:20:29 < kakimir> I would just use some micropower boost ic
2019-05-19T03:20:41 < kakimir> if there is any
2019-05-19T03:20:42 < mawk> isn't micropower for µA ?
2019-05-19T03:20:48 < kakimir> yes
2019-05-19T03:21:01 < mawk> but would want steroids
2019-05-19T03:21:11 < mawk> you need megapower
2019-05-19T03:22:32 < kakimir> in buck regulator realm it's not uncommon to have Iq of under 20u and able to put out 3Amps
2019-05-19T03:24:29 < kakimir> Iq under 20u including feedback in megaohm range
2019-05-19T03:25:52 < kakimir> even then the divider pulls almost the same than regulator
2019-05-19T03:26:32 < kakimir> I don have balls to go in multiple megaohms arnge
2019-05-19T03:26:34 < kakimir> range
2019-05-19T03:26:56 < mawk> try it
2019-05-19T03:27:06 < mawk> you need like precision resistor tho no ?
2019-05-19T03:27:28 < kakimir> divider
2019-05-19T03:27:38 < mawk> yes
2019-05-19T03:27:39 < kakimir> it's like.. how you want your output voltage
2019-05-19T03:27:40 < mawk> for the divider
2019-05-19T03:28:00 < kakimir> 1% is fine
2019-05-19T03:28:06 < mawk> ah good
2019-05-19T03:29:15 < kakimir> I just noticed that breathing humid air to hundreds k range divider alters it quite a lot
2019-05-19T03:29:40 < kakimir> so megaohm range it must just go crazy offset by humidity
2019-05-19T03:29:52 < kakimir> and +10 - cannot even imagine
2019-05-19T03:29:57 < kakimir> how to do that
2019-05-19T03:30:20 < Rajko> conformal coating
2019-05-19T03:30:33 < Rajko> i dont go above 100k because of that
2019-05-19T03:38:41 < kakimir> yah but in consumer electronics
2019-05-19T03:38:48 < kakimir> they go casually to 10megs
2019-05-19T03:38:55 < kakimir> maybe not in dividers
2019-05-19T03:38:57 < kakimir> but stuff
2019-05-19T03:39:34 < mawk> maybe in integrated circuits where it's isolated
2019-05-19T03:39:38 < mawk> or under epoxy
2019-05-19T03:40:49 < kakimir> I think that you need to just look inside a mobile phone
2019-05-19T03:41:07 < kakimir> all that small shiet
2019-05-19T03:41:12 < kakimir> it's megaohms
2019-05-19T03:45:15 -!- Rajko [~Rajko@cable-178-149-212-76.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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2019-05-19T03:49:03 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wGCGFrY3Ng some musics for mornings
2019-05-19T03:51:32 < aandrew> lol
2019-05-19T03:51:52 < aandrew> I'm looking through the apple watch app store and there's a game called bubblegum hero. the byline is "blow your way to the top"
2019-05-19T03:52:12 < jadew> pink icon?
2019-05-19T03:52:21 < aandrew> yep
2019-05-19T03:52:27 < jadew> funny
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2019-05-19T03:55:15 < jadew> I need a 20 GHz oscilloscope
2019-05-19T03:55:28 < jadew> anyone here got one?
2019-05-19T03:56:13 -!- f3r70rr35f [~xnohtox@201.188.51.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2019-05-19T03:56:27 < jadew> the old ones are kinda big, so I'd like to avoid buying one if possible
2019-05-19T03:57:00 < kakimir> it's understandable to try to avoid bying 20Ghz oscilloscope
2019-05-19T03:58:28 < jadew> doesn't have to be real time, so I can probably get a nice one for 1-2 k
2019-05-19T03:58:43 < kakimir> and I really doubt anyone here just comes behind your door with their 20Ghz oscope to borrow it
2019-05-19T03:58:54 < aandrew> jadew: I have access to one, but sadly no
2019-05-19T03:58:56 < jadew> no, I'd send them the DUT
2019-05-19T03:59:18 < aandrew> jesus, the 10GHz one I got to play with about 8y ago was US$130k
2019-05-19T03:59:36 < aandrew> what are you doing that needs that kind of bandwidth
2019-05-19T03:59:44 < jadew> a sampling one would suffice
2019-05-19T04:00:12 < jadew> I'm characterizing a product
2019-05-19T04:01:13 < jadew> I basically have to put a very sharp edge through it and see how it comes out on the other side
2019-05-19T04:01:39 < Cracki> a local/nearby uni maybe?
2019-05-19T04:01:53 < jadew> good idea Cracki!
2019-05-19T04:02:00 < Cracki> or some technical certification authority
2019-05-19T04:02:04 < jadew> I'll have to ask around
2019-05-19T04:02:18 < Cracki> in germany I'd ask mobile network providers for names too
2019-05-19T04:02:28 < Cracki> at my uni they have a high frequency institute
2019-05-19T04:02:53 < Cracki> also amateur radio people/hams, might know contacts
2019-05-19T04:03:17 < jadew> you're right, I know someone who might know someone
2019-05-19T04:04:47 < mawk> to 6 or 7 degrees you might reach anyone on the earth
2019-05-19T04:04:58 < mawk> if you ask a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend
2019-05-19T04:05:26 < jadew> yeah, so all I need is to ask a friend, right?
2019-05-19T04:05:34 < mawk> yes
2019-05-19T04:10:34 < Cracki> "rf measurement service", I get a bunch of results, but most of them probably want money... at uni they are unconcerned with money (commies!) and the stuff is collecting dust since it was last touched for that one very specific industry project two years ago
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2019-05-19T04:12:39 < aandrew> a uni is an excellent choice
2019-05-19T04:12:53 < aandrew> and I bet you've got some way into the uni in .ro
2019-05-19T04:12:56 < aandrew> in bucharest I mean
2019-05-19T04:13:15 < jadew> yeah
2019-05-19T04:13:16 < aandrew> Cracki: it's .ro, they're all still commies
2019-05-19T04:13:20 < Cracki> heh
2019-05-19T04:13:30 < Cracki> I hope not, I hope they learned from their own suffering
2019-05-19T04:13:51 < Cracki> today western europeans are the hugest commies, western germans the worst of them
2019-05-19T04:14:09 < zyp> hmm, I wonder if my uni got any fancy scopes
2019-05-19T04:14:43 < jadew> Cracki, communism is illegal in Romania
2019-05-19T04:14:49 < zyp> I just remember playing with the 6GHz R&S ZVL when I were doing my bachelor's
2019-05-19T04:14:50 < Cracki> I envy you
2019-05-19T04:15:04 < jadew> zyp, neat
2019-05-19T04:15:16 < jadew> if you got to play with it, then maybe they have better stuff in the back?
2019-05-19T04:15:19 < zyp> but the only scopes I remember were fairly cheap lcd scopes
2019-05-19T04:15:41 < zyp> oh, the ZVL came from «the back»
2019-05-19T04:15:51 < jadew> heh
2019-05-19T04:16:05 < zyp> IIRC the RF prof kept it in his office
2019-05-19T04:16:09 < Cracki> the really expensive stuff might just be on "loan" from a benevolent company representative
2019-05-19T04:16:22 < Cracki> our mech engs regularly get dropped brand new cars "to take apart and fuck with"
2019-05-19T04:17:54 < zyp> maybe I should drop by the EE department of the uni and catch up some day, I'll be hanging out in that area anyway for a while
2019-05-19T04:19:07 < zyp> there's a new mechatronics test lab connected to the uni, and the company my company is partnering with on a project is renting test time there
2019-05-19T04:20:14 < zyp> and they finally got the test rig far enough along that our parts gets assembled on it
2019-05-19T04:20:21 < Cracki> they'd probably benefit from some industry experience...
2019-05-19T04:20:40 < zyp> hehe
2019-05-19T04:20:51 < zyp> I'll probably find some old coworkers there too
2019-05-19T04:20:58 < Cracki> and new ones
2019-05-19T04:21:19 < Cracki> unis are good poaching grounds
2019-05-19T04:21:34 < zyp> I believe a couple of my old coworkers got jobs as lecturers there after we all got laid off in 2014
2019-05-19T04:21:42 < Cracki> hehe
2019-05-19T04:22:36 < zyp> also, yeah
2019-05-19T04:22:47 < zyp> I got hired straight out of uni
2019-05-19T04:23:19 < zyp> one of my profs were part time prof, part time developer in the company that hired me
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2019-05-19T04:34:52 < bitmask> good evening
2019-05-19T04:36:22 < Cracki> ave
2019-05-19T04:37:29 < aandrew> nice, the restaurant I'm hanging out at closes at midnight, wife's plane arrives from YVR at midnight-thirty 
2019-05-19T04:37:32 < aandrew> couldn't be more ideal
2019-05-19T04:37:50 < aandrew> I got beer, I got eats, decent wifi and I can surriptuously work on my 2.4ghz shits here
2019-05-19T04:37:58 < aandrew> it's a tad warm (temperature) but that's fine
2019-05-19T04:38:35 -!- Laurenceb_ [~laurence@host31-49-125-0.range31-49.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2019-05-19T04:42:58 < Cracki> design work or hardware work?
2019-05-19T04:43:32 < zyp> I've forgot how to go to bed at a reasonable time
2019-05-19T04:43:58 < jadew> you have to wake up early and not drink coffe
2019-05-19T04:44:15 < jadew> also, don't eat at night
2019-05-19T04:44:17 < zyp> I don't drink coffee
2019-05-19T04:44:20 < jadew> coke?
2019-05-19T04:44:42 < jadew> that has the same effect
2019-05-19T04:44:54 < jadew> eating at night is a big one
2019-05-19T04:45:05 < jadew> (even snacks)
2019-05-19T04:45:18 < jadew> because your body gets used to it and it becomes alert when that time comes
2019-05-19T04:45:57 < jadew> it's the reason I'm awake now - I woke up at 3 am, because for a year or two, about 7-8 years ago, I used to go out and get snacks at that hour
2019-05-19T04:46:00 < zyp> I don't drink much soda either
2019-05-19T04:46:12 < jadew> now I wake up at 3 am almost every night
2019-05-19T04:46:26 < zyp> and I generally don't eat much after dinner
2019-05-19T04:47:47 < zyp> but I mean, I've always been a night person, I keep putting off both going to bed and getting up in the morning
2019-05-19T04:48:07 < jadew> me too, but it gets in the way of normal life
2019-05-19T04:48:15 < zyp> unless I force myself to, and when I don't have a reason …
2019-05-19T04:48:16 < Cracki> this week I had work-filled days so I was very tired even before midnight... weirdly I also woke up quite early. that included friday. this saturday though I slept until 3pm... must have been the light outside, it was quite cloudy today
2019-05-19T04:49:01 < zyp> I mean, lately I haven't really bothered getting up early for work even
2019-05-19T04:49:12 < Cracki> work doesn't run away
2019-05-19T04:49:23 < zyp> I have flexible hours, and I'm alone in the office anyway
2019-05-19T04:49:46 < Cracki> sometimes the only reason to get up in the morning is a full bladder
2019-05-19T04:49:54 < jadew> lol
2019-05-19T04:49:58 < Cracki> always drink before bed
2019-05-19T04:50:07 < zyp> haha
2019-05-19T04:50:27 < zyp> I can put that off too
2019-05-19T04:50:27 < Cracki> I swear I'm only half as old as that makes me sound
2019-05-19T04:50:53 < Cracki> btw, grumpy cat died. rest in piece
2019-05-19T04:51:28 < zyp> I can lie in bed and think «I need to go take a piss, but I can deal with that in an hour or something»
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2019-05-19T04:53:11 < zyp> when driving somewhere with people, I feel like everybody needs piss breaks more often than I do :p
2019-05-19T04:55:08 < jadew> is it mandatory for datasheets to include a picture of the product?
2019-05-19T04:55:16 < zyp> no?
2019-05-19T04:55:45 < jadew> that's what I thought, but I can't remember one that didn't have it
2019-05-19T04:55:54 < zyp> well, you know what they say
2019-05-19T04:56:01 < zyp> «a picture tells more than a thousand words»
2019-05-19T04:56:07 < jadew> true
2019-05-19T04:57:02 < zyp> which reminds me of a story from uni
2019-05-19T04:57:43 < zyp> I took an english course, business/technical oriented
2019-05-19T04:58:50 < zyp> one of the tasks we got was to write a user manual for a mousetrap, assuming the reader had no previous knowledge of anything like that
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2019-05-19T04:59:48 < zyp> the task mentioned that we should include a picture labelling the parts
2019-05-19T05:00:57 < zyp> but I didn't wanna write it by hand or deal with making a digital drawing, so I typed out a detailed description of the mechanical construction instead
2019-05-19T05:01:47 < zyp> teacher's reaction went like «uh, you should have included a drawing… wait, this is actually really good»
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2019-05-19T05:03:24 < jadew> heh
2019-05-19T05:03:42 < jadew> I'll have to include a drawing on this one tho, the dimensions are kinda important
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2019-05-19T08:37:59 < neverville> Cracki, so I can't use atollic studio, but while using my stlinkv2 the ide wants to do a firmware upgrade and simply says upgrade error.
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2019-05-19T09:22:45 < neverville> So when I use atollic studio and try to run/debug it says selection cannot be launched as there are no recent launches, how can I fix this?
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2019-05-19T10:03:42 < boddax> <neverville> fixed?
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2019-05-19T12:11:23 < Thorn> housing project in Shanghai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b97HsgIU3w
2019-05-19T12:11:50 < Thorn> wrong channel (probably lol) sorry
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2019-05-19T14:20:08 < Steffanx> Hehe, nice on the outside. A real shithole on the inside. Thorn :)
2019-05-19T14:21:45 < Steffanx> And a scary amount of cameras
2019-05-19T14:23:24 < Thorn> and almost 2 hours by subway from the city center
2019-05-19T14:24:06 < zyp> can it even be said to be in the city at that point?
2019-05-19T14:25:03 < Thorn> highrise buildings, metro station ~nearby (2 or 3 bus stops away)
2019-05-19T14:27:36 < zyp> so what's the story here anyway? if it weren't for the lack of maintenance/cleaning, it doesn't look so bad
2019-05-19T14:31:56 < jpa-> the insects are quite yucky and difficult to get rid of, but otherwise yeah, even the resident himself could easily clean + fix places up
2019-05-19T14:32:37 < Thorn> simliar video but from another city https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toSxKEh8BLo
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2019-05-19T14:39:17 < boddax> is that egypth?
2019-05-19T14:40:20 < zyp> jpa-, well, I was more thinking about not letting it get that bad in the first place
2019-05-19T14:40:46 < jpa-> maybe they built it that way! ;)
2019-05-19T14:42:10 < BrainDamage> the giant hole in the kitchen was made like that though
2019-05-19T14:43:48 < boddax> spaghetti corner
2019-05-19T15:08:45 < Thorn> what is the right name for the current cellular standard (in Europe etc.)? I understand GSM is long dead? is it UMTS?
2019-05-19T15:09:29 < BrainDamage> gsm is not dead, it lives concurrently with the others
2019-05-19T15:09:59 < BrainDamage> at the same time there's gsm, umts, and lte
2019-05-19T15:10:17 < BrainDamage> depending on network coverage you can hook to whatever network
2019-05-19T15:10:47 < sync> 4G is everywhere, there are places where you don't have 2G coverage anymore
2019-05-19T15:22:04 < englishman> 2g will sunset soon as well
2019-05-19T15:22:33 < boddax> 5G coming soon
2019-05-19T15:25:39 < boddax> gsm working much better those area with mountains and hills where last technologies doesn't cover very well , i think will never dead
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2019-05-19T15:37:14 < Cracki> neverville, do not "launch", do "debug"
2019-05-19T15:44:11 < Cracki> curious, the swiss plan to shut down 2g and "emulate" it with 5g, so that old 2g devices still work
2019-05-19T15:44:30 < Cracki> lots of non-public stuff apparently relies on gsm
2019-05-19T15:44:58 < BrainDamage> there's an entire infrastructure for rail comms called gsm-r
2019-05-19T15:44:59 < jpa-> is "emulate" somehow different from the already usual method of 4g basestations doing 2g using SDR techniques?
2019-05-19T15:46:01 < Cracki> railway gsm probably have their own frequencies. privleged :)
2019-05-19T15:46:47 < Thorn> what is 2G part of? UMTS? or is it separate?
2019-05-19T15:46:55 < Cracki> 2g is gsm
2019-05-19T15:47:11 < Thorn> okic
2019-05-19T15:47:12 < Cracki> umts is part of 3g, as is cdma2000
2019-05-19T15:47:26 < Cracki> I haven't heard of cdma used in europe, umts rules here
2019-05-19T15:48:27 < Cracki> 1g was analog
2019-05-19T15:48:51 < BrainDamage> 1g was tacs
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2019-05-19T15:51:15 < Cracki> hah the only reason we have a single standard (LTE) for 4g is that qualcomm stopped working on their own stuff (UMB)
2019-05-19T15:57:09 < neverville> boddax, nope not fixed.
2019-05-19T15:59:10 < neverville> Cracki, even debug says selection cannot be launched
2019-05-19T15:59:29 < Cracki> sounds like an eclipse specific problem. try searching for that.
2019-05-19T15:59:36 < neverville> I am planning on removing all these and going barebone with opencm3.
2019-05-19T16:00:03 < neverville> Cracki, unlike stmcube this thing does not even have debug profile
2019-05-19T16:03:03 < neverville> boddax, 5g does not even have proper specification laid in for L1, half of my firm is scared because of that, internally IEEE wants a piece of 5g action so a lot shit technical papers of impossible stuff is done
2019-05-19T16:04:01 < neverville> amidst all this even if 5g rolls out, it'll not be proper in the above layers.
2019-05-19T16:04:52 < Cracki> things will develop
2019-05-19T16:05:59 < neverville> early rollout for us says it'll be 2020, but by 2020 if L1 settles I'll be happy, for us who are in L1 things are bad rn.
2019-05-19T16:08:34 < neverville> Cracki, so I am planning on going the baremetal way, and I want to uninstall stm, atollic what do you say is it okay?
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2019-05-19T16:08:53 < Cracki> can't say
2019-05-19T16:09:32 < boddax> let see whos the winner Huawei? Ericcson? Nokia?
2019-05-19T16:09:48 < neverville> boddax, you are forgetting ZTE.
2019-05-19T16:10:05 < Cracki> I think you're clicking the wrong button in eclipse.
2019-05-19T16:10:16 < Cracki> neither truestudio nor cubeide can "run" anything. you can only debug.
2019-05-19T16:10:22 < boddax> here europe never heard
2019-05-19T16:10:48 < neverville> there are only 5 5g vendors in the world, and two of them are chinese.
2019-05-19T16:11:00 < Cracki> https://forum.atollic.com/viewtopic.php?t=1609
2019-05-19T16:11:52 < neverville> the link inside that one does not work Cracki I checked it today morning.
2019-05-19T16:12:05 < Cracki> sure, but still I suspect you aren't hitting the debug button
2019-05-19T16:12:25 < Cracki> or something about the configuration got changed accidentally
2019-05-19T16:12:52 < Cracki> the only way to get that error is to attempt to "launch", which is _not_ possible
2019-05-19T16:13:09 < neverville> "hitting the debug button" as in the ide option right?
2019-05-19T16:13:21 < Cracki> or equivalent kb shortcut
2019-05-19T16:14:13 < boddax> <neverville> you coding in assembler?
2019-05-19T16:14:25 < Cracki> I don't have either open to look for myself... but if that's not the problem, then eclipse needs you to select something first, before it can assume some default
2019-05-19T16:15:20 < Cracki> check this out https://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=msg&th=73973&goto=233219&#msg_233219
2019-05-19T16:15:41 < Cracki> but that applies to actually runnable/launchable host-side C programs
2019-05-19T16:16:18 < Cracki> eclipse is sensitive to things you select in some panel with that tree of targets and runnables(?) and stuff
2019-05-19T16:16:51 < Cracki> they really should work on stripping down that complexity in eclipse, or at least hiding it behind defaults
2019-05-19T16:17:57 < Cracki> by "debug" I don't mean how it's compiled, but how it's _not_ "launched" but debugged
2019-05-19T16:18:58 < neverville> now it says program file does not exist.
2019-05-19T16:19:41 < neverville> https://imgur.com/a/cFsGCHj, Cracki 
2019-05-19T16:19:56 < Cracki> you are still trying to _launch_
2019-05-19T16:21:08 < neverville> okay, now you are saying Run -> Debug is not the correct way?
2019-05-19T16:21:45 < Cracki> that is the correct way
2019-05-19T16:21:51 < Cracki> but I suspect something got misconfigured
2019-05-19T16:21:59 < neverville> I have been doing it.
2019-05-19T16:22:49 < neverville> https://imgur.com/a/aIuZ4Ht, debugger settings
2019-05-19T16:23:13 < Cracki> "run -> debug configurations..." should have "embedded c/c++ application"
2019-05-19T16:23:25 < Cracki> uh, under that, one entry with something like foo.elf
2019-05-19T16:24:20 < Cracki> yes
2019-05-19T16:24:44 < Cracki> and when you go "run -> debug as -> <something>", what happens
2019-05-19T16:25:55 < neverville> Cracki, back to the same rabbit hole to check power and cabling to target.
2019-05-19T16:26:09 < Cracki> curious
2019-05-19T16:26:21 < Cracki> oh well, it works on windows :P
2019-05-19T16:26:36 < Cracki> guess you're left with the alternative
2019-05-19T16:26:56 < neverville> the st-link or baremetal?
2019-05-19T16:26:59 < neverville> right?
2019-05-19T16:27:25 < Cracki> cubeide/truestudio did build an .elf file, right?
2019-05-19T16:27:40 < Cracki> then the problem is how to talk to the stlink/stlinkv2
2019-05-19T16:27:57 < neverville> maybe my board is bad?
2019-05-19T16:27:59 < neverville> maybe..
2019-05-19T16:28:12 < Cracki> grab the documentation for openocd and see if you can make it talk to your stlink (v2 probably easiest)
2019-05-19T16:28:18 < Cracki> maybe
2019-05-19T16:28:30 < Cracki> maybe you hooked it up to the wrong pins, or maybe some jumpers are set
2019-05-19T16:28:33 < Cracki> which shouldn't
2019-05-19T16:28:37 < Cracki> or vice versa
2019-05-19T16:29:01 < neverville> So I have my usb cable and jumper cn3 on
2019-05-19T16:30:07 < Cracki> kek 5G has a "non-standalone" mode, abbreviated NSA!
2019-05-19T16:33:25 < neverville> So Cracki hypothetically let's say I want to have the most basic things I need a editor, debugger, flash bridge and hardware library right?
2019-05-19T16:35:15 < Cracki> you don't even need to debug. openocd can just load the elf onto the target and it'll run
2019-05-19T16:35:53 < Cracki> and you don't _need_ a hardware library. you can "just" figure out the right memory addresses and manipulate them to configure what you need
2019-05-19T16:36:14 < Cracki> that's complex tho because stm32 want a little initialization
2019-05-19T16:37:11 < Cracki> so in practice you do want a hardware library. ST's HAL and opencm3 are the options.
2019-05-19T16:38:23 < Cracki> (openocd acts as a "gdb server")
2019-05-19T16:39:12 < Cracki> here's what this can look like http://openocd.org/doc/html/GDB-and-OpenOCD.html
2019-05-19T16:39:49 < neverville> before all this how do I remove all this things I have done now?
2019-05-19T16:40:13 < Cracki> another google result: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38033130/how-to-use-the-gdb-gnu-debugger-and-openocd-for-microcontroller-debugging-fr
2019-05-19T16:40:28 < Cracki> you want me to explain to you how to delete files?
2019-05-19T16:40:48 < neverville> Yeah, I am relatively new to eclipse.
2019-05-19T16:40:50 < Cracki> I don't know how you installed truestudio or cubeide, you'll have to find that out
2019-05-19T16:41:22 < Cracki> eclipse has a "workspace" which is similar to a visual studio "solution". it is a container for multiple projects
2019-05-19T16:41:30 < Cracki> you can leave all that if you want
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2019-05-19T17:03:04 < neverville> Okay I am doing a complete reinstall of my laptop Cracki I'll see you in 5 hes
2019-05-19T17:03:06 < neverville> *hrs
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2019-05-19T17:10:26 < bitmask> wtf, thats a new one.... I paused a youtube video last night to finish today.  Just went to play it and the whole series (6 or so videos on the subject) have bene removed, they are years old videos too
2019-05-19T17:58:49 < Cracki> digital book burning
2019-05-19T17:58:53 < Cracki> happens all the time
2019-05-19T17:58:59 < Cracki> enjoy the bonfire
2019-05-19T17:59:13 < friendofafriend> I download.  :\
2019-05-19T17:59:21 < Cracki> always download
2019-05-19T18:02:17 < BrainDamage> youtube-dl is majestic, you can download whole channels or playlists
2019-05-19T18:02:28 < BrainDamage> and works for way more than just youtube
2019-05-19T18:04:51 < bitmask> I use it for edx-dl
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2019-05-19T19:18:45 < jadew> yeah, it happens a lot
2019-05-19T19:36:56 < mawk> I thought you were talking about assembly bitmask 
2019-05-19T19:36:59 < mawk> %edx, %edl
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2019-05-19T19:52:08 < bitmask> sucks when a 9 hour print fails with 2 hours remaining
2019-05-19T19:53:00 < BrainDamage> is it possible to resume them hanfway?
2019-05-19T19:53:58 < bitmask> under certain circumstances, my problem is I'm using klipper fw and its almost impossible to restart without homing first, and when you have a print on the bed its not always possible to home the Z axis
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2019-05-19T19:57:17 < neverville> Cracki, I am trying the same things in a windows machine.
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2019-05-19T20:01:11 < Cracki> bitmask, print smaller parts?
2019-05-19T20:01:23 < Cracki> how did it stop anyway
2019-05-19T20:01:51 < bitmask> did you really just suggest that?
2019-05-19T20:02:41 < Cracki> why, it's what chip factories do to increase yield
2019-05-19T20:03:05 < bitmask> its just this annoying filament that im trying to get rid of, it doesnt like to retract and this part has a few layers with a lot of retractions so it jammed. just gotta print that part alone with different settings
2019-05-19T20:03:25 < Cracki> sell it on ebay as pr0 supply
2019-05-19T20:03:52 < bitmask> what are you even talking about?
2019-05-19T20:04:30 < Cracki> get rid of the filament if it causes you trouble
2019-05-19T20:06:30 < bitmask> I'm gonna sell a 1/3rd of a roll of filament? thats a bit asinine. Just let me complain about a problem for a second and start the print over. It doesnt need anything more than that
2019-05-19T20:07:43 < boddax> you mean warping .. bitmask?
2019-05-19T20:10:56 < bitmask> no? it retracts weird and clogs up.  I'm not sure the exact reason. I'm between the filament being brittle and the retraction takes out small chunks of the filament and when it does it a lot in the same place it cant grip onto the filament anymore, or it actually produces a real clog
2019-05-19T20:12:12 < bitmask> I think its very gooey so the back pressure is really high when trying to retract, so that causes the filament to chip but I dont want to raise the temperature to make it less viscous
2019-05-19T20:12:43 < bitmask> so I'm just gonna lower the retraction speed/amount and it should be fine
2019-05-19T20:12:56 < boddax> what model your printer bitmask ?
2019-05-19T20:13:14 < bitmask> modified anet a6
2019-05-19T20:13:54 < boddax> the gear pulling the filament look fine?
2019-05-19T20:14:12 < bitmask> yes, its just this one kind of filament, its a special kind of pla
2019-05-19T20:14:57 < boddax> is that one with metal inside?
2019-05-19T20:16:01 < boddax> aluminum or whatever micro scraps
2019-05-19T20:16:09 < bitmask> no, just this stuff: https://atomicfilament.com/collections/silky-pla/products/silky-aqua-pla
2019-05-19T20:16:56 < boddax> high temperature
2019-05-19T20:17:01 < bitmask> yes
2019-05-19T20:17:53 < boddax> i have creality 3d using simple colored ecopla 205 C
2019-05-19T20:20:15 < boddax> but soon want test Tomas3D lots of kind ..i seen my friend printed things excellent 
2019-05-19T20:22:47 < boddax> actually very busy with my cnc milling pcb ..dont want to go with stm32 board
2019-05-19T20:23:36 < neverville> Cracki, atollic studio is working perfectly in windows.
2019-05-19T20:25:30 < neverville> It does connect but it says the detected st-link version does not support the DAP read command Cracki 
2019-05-19T20:30:10 < Cracki> use this to update the stlinkv2's firmware https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stsw-link004.html
2019-05-19T20:30:17 < Cracki> in case it doesn't come with cube*
2019-05-19T20:37:21 < neverville> why is this hard in linux?
2019-05-19T20:38:58 < Cracki> it's not the kernel's fault
2019-05-19T20:39:04 < Cracki> blame all those distributions
2019-05-19T20:39:48 < Cracki> companies don't have the time to chase down all the bugs in several distributions, let alone chase the changing apis. windows is comparatively stable.
2019-05-19T20:40:03 < neverville> okay, now when I do a update it says it's in DFU mode, I know what a DFU does , but how do I get out of it?
2019-05-19T20:40:11 < Cracki> unplug it
2019-05-19T20:41:26 < neverville> it worked, now the blink thing all over again.
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2019-05-19T20:52:10 < neverville> Cracki, https://imgur.com/a/Ju8Lojq I get this after upgrade
2019-05-19T20:52:35 < Cracki> whaaat
2019-05-19T20:52:40 < Cracki> I can't help with that
2019-05-19T20:53:40 < Cracki> just google it https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X0000A4nwUbSQI/atollic-debug-failure-at-line37-in-target-software-startup-scripts
2019-05-19T20:53:40 < boddax> is that a comment?
2019-05-19T20:55:32 < Cracki> more google results https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009XkXaiSAF/can-not-programm-stm32l4r5-nucleo-board
2019-05-19T20:57:58 < neverville> Okay, I found the issue.
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2019-05-19T21:29:45 < Cracki> and they never say what it was and how they fixed it
2019-05-19T21:30:07 < Cracki> give me hope that humans, deep down, are _not_ communist
2019-05-19T21:38:51 < catphish> guitar pedal works :) https://i.imgur.com/Wqe6Fts.jpg
2019-05-19T21:48:52 < boddax> nice catphish have youtube rec sound?
2019-05-19T21:49:19 < catphish> not yet
2019-05-19T21:50:03 < catphish> i tested a simple delay effect through it and it works, though i need to have a more detailed look at the audio input / output to make sure it's clean
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2019-05-19T22:00:41 < Steffanx> the bottom side is the most important side catphish ;)
2019-05-19T22:02:06 < catphish> here's a photo i took before it was finished: https://i.imgur.com/le9XBl3.jpg
2019-05-19T22:02:08 < qyx> yeah, he is hiding stm32
2019-05-19T22:02:25 < Steffanx> ah good good :P
2019-05-19T22:02:30 < catphish> i tried to keep the traces minimal
2019-05-19T22:04:25 < catphish> just took a finished picture :) https://imgur.com/a/GrQgnO1
2019-05-19T22:05:26 < catphish> it's been ages since i made a pcb by hand like this
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2019-05-19T22:53:19 < BrainDamage> catphish: how many effects do you plan to have at once?
2019-05-19T22:54:03 < catphish> BrainDamage: i don't really know, i just thought if i designed something programmable, then i could build a couple and try out different effects
2019-05-19T22:55:54 < catphish> now i have the analog part working, i need to test some flash memory for recording audio, then will build one in full and try out some effects
2019-05-19T22:57:27 < BrainDamage> you'll soon learn the pain of the world of low latency audio
2019-05-19T22:58:20 < BrainDamage> stack enough delay to get ~10-20ms from io and you'll get thrown off while playing
2019-05-19T22:59:32 < BrainDamage> granted, gen pourpose pc are much worse in that regards having a scheduler and other crap running
2019-05-19T22:59:36 < catphish> well the delay will just be as long as my effect takes to run
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2019-05-19T23:01:27 < catphish> since i'm doing zero processing right now. the delay is 1-2 samples (21-42us)
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2019-05-19T23:02:26 < catphish> i'm hoping most effects will happen in similar realtime
2019-05-19T23:40:36 < karlp> I quite like this usb-c alternate mode world.
2019-05-19T23:40:39 < karlp> https://www.eenewsembedded.com/news/usb-type-c-debugging-proof-concept?news_id=117720
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--- Day changed Mon May 20 2019
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2019-05-20T01:05:47 < aandrew> looks pricey
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2019-05-20T02:07:41 < kakimir> I accidentally R6
2019-05-20T02:12:14 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C5mJPqjhPrCWpjC7tpqF72Yx2EVN44Su/view?usp=sharing
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2019-05-20T02:53:22 < karlp> aandrew: well, it's just some sw and route the pins right? reckons you can do usb-c plus SWD at the same time.
2019-05-20T03:03:19 < zyp> sounds like it uses the SBU lines for SWD
2019-05-20T03:07:00 < aandrew> no, I mean the lauterbach
2019-05-20T03:09:23 < zyp> yeah, they are
2019-05-20T03:09:36 < aandrew> I have a bdi2000 I should ebay
2019-05-20T03:10:57 < zyp> I had a lauterbach sitting on my desk for half a year when I worked at STE, never ended up using it for anything
2019-05-20T03:12:17 < zyp> got it one day from one of my sups, «hey, I found this, it needs some license files updated or something, you can have it if you figure out how to get it to work»
2019-05-20T03:13:31 < zyp> so I dicked around installing the software to use it and updated some license bullshit
2019-05-20T03:14:09 < zyp> and then it ended up sitting there waiting for an occasion to be used that never came before I got laid off when the department shut down :p
2019-05-20T03:19:19 < kakimir> zyp is up late
2019-05-20T03:19:29 < zyp> yeah, I forgot to go to bed
2019-05-20T03:19:46 < kakimir> don't do this
2019-05-20T03:20:04 < kakimir> don't become like me
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2019-05-20T04:24:33 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/0PfLTYa.png
2019-05-20T04:29:34 < bitmask> everyone must be watching GoT
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2019-05-20T04:40:52 < kakimir> shit I'm not tired at all
2019-05-20T04:41:03 < jadew> I'm a little tired
2019-05-20T04:41:07 < jadew> and I just woke up
2019-05-20T04:41:15 < kakimir> got super excited about my bike
2019-05-20T04:41:16 < jadew> well, I woke up 30 minutes ago
2019-05-20T04:41:33 < jadew> you got it yesterday?
2019-05-20T04:41:35 < kakimir> I just can't wait to open my present
2019-05-20T04:41:47 < jadew> is it your birthday?
2019-05-20T04:41:51 < kakimir> to pull the cylinder head
2019-05-20T04:42:18 < kakimir> 4hours to wait to go to work
2019-05-20T04:43:05 < kakimir> imma bad at math
2019-05-20T04:43:06 < kakimir> 3hours
2019-05-20T04:43:57 < jadew> what bike did you get?
2019-05-20T04:44:47 < kakimir> r6
2019-05-20T04:45:07 < jadew> looks nice
2019-05-20T04:47:32 < jadew> I heard bikes are extremely effective pussy multipliers
2019-05-20T04:48:39 < kakimir> you know what bike being nude means?
2019-05-20T04:49:01 < jadew> no, what?
2019-05-20T04:49:05 < kakimir> in this case it's done quite tastefully
2019-05-20T04:49:30 < kakimir> that it has not been on it's wheels 100% time
2019-05-20T04:50:34 < jadew> it's taller than I expected https://i.pinimg.com/originals/90/4b/c7/904bc763a14021be8f19bea1ed41d606.jpg
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2019-05-20T05:05:59 < kakimir> spare engine location: 750km drive - one way
2019-05-20T05:10:28 < kakimir> that is like full 70litres of diesel
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2019-05-20T06:09:55 < jadew> anyone wants to see the datasheet of my new product?
2019-05-20T06:10:51 < jadew> just finished writing it: https://cojotech.com/media/datasheets/LMT-030-2%20-%20Datasheet.pdf
2019-05-20T06:13:01 < jadew> actually I finished yesterday, but I made some final adjustments just now
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2019-05-20T06:40:32 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone have a suggestion for a nice windowed moving average C implementation?
2019-05-20T06:41:01 < jadew> not C++?
2019-05-20T06:41:07 < jadew> I think there's one in boost
2019-05-20T06:41:45 < jadew> also, you can write one yourself quite easily on top of a queue
2019-05-20T06:42:40 < ColdKeyboard> I'm looking to make my DIY weight scale more "fixed". I don't want it jumping up and down. Instead it would be nice if it paused for ~1s and then just shows weight. I know there are tons of ways to do this but windowed moving average seems like a promissing solution
2019-05-20T06:44:09 < jadew> you would have been halfway there if instead of starting this convo here, you started writing one 3 minutes ago
2019-05-20T06:44:44 < jadew> you push one in, add it to the total, compute output
2019-05-20T06:44:44 < ColdKeyboard> true
2019-05-20T06:44:53 < jadew> when you have to remove one, you remove it from the total, compute output
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2019-05-20T07:01:03 < rajkosto> you dont even need a queue
2019-05-20T07:01:30 < rajkosto> you can remove the value you push out from the sum when you add the new one
2019-05-20T07:01:59 < rajkosto> you need a circular buffer to keep the history
2019-05-20T07:03:42 < jadew> rajkosto, that's what the queue does too
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2019-05-20T07:05:55 < Thorn> jadew: I'd add a output power vs input power graph (to clarify what "limiter" actually is / does)
2019-05-20T07:06:07 < jadew> Thorn, it's there
2019-05-20T07:06:14 < jadew> page 2
2019-05-20T07:06:28 < jadew> power output vs frequency
2019-05-20T07:06:36 < jadew> (at various powers)
2019-05-20T07:06:47 < jadew> or you mean the other way around?
2019-05-20T07:06:53 < Thorn> yeah
2019-05-20T07:07:29 < jadew> yeah, I don't find those graphs very informative because it behaves differently at different frequencies
2019-05-20T07:07:41 < jadew> but I would add them, but then I'd have to start a new page :)
2019-05-20T07:07:58 < Thorn> out power vs in power (at 1 or several freqs) would be quite illustrative, to me anyway
2019-05-20T07:08:24 < jadew> is the power output vs frequency not that informative?
2019-05-20T07:08:27 < Thorn> to tell the difference between this thing and an attenuator at a glance
2019-05-20T07:08:42 < jadew> I see what you mean
2019-05-20T07:09:17 < jadew> not sure where I'd fit it :/
2019-05-20T07:12:29 < jadew> I could remove one of the other graphs but they're all important
2019-05-20T07:12:36 < Thorn> also looking at the text there is linear range and limiting range, but where does one end and the other begin, etc.
2019-05-20T07:12:48 < Thorn> the graph I'm suggesting would answer that too
2019-05-20T07:12:49 < jadew> Thorn, at the threshold level
2019-05-20T07:13:01 < jadew> it's in the electric specifications table
2019-05-20T07:13:07 < Thorn> why not page 1 btw
2019-05-20T07:13:24 < Thorn> it would help potential users understand wtf is going on and not skip the product
2019-05-20T07:14:16 < jadew> because what matters is the output level at those higher amplitudes
2019-05-20T07:15:09 < jadew> the point of this thing is to protect sensitive front ends from mistakes, as opposed to being used in the limiting region
2019-05-20T07:15:26 < jadew> at least that's how I'm planning to advertise it
2019-05-20T07:15:57 < jadew> because I think that's what the possible buyers would care about
2019-05-20T07:16:16 < jadew> but I see your point about that graph, I just have to find more room
2019-05-20T07:16:32 < jadew> if I start a new page, just for the graphs, then there's going to be too much empty space on the second page
2019-05-20T07:18:33 < jadew> good observation tho, I'll try to make it more clear on the first page
2019-05-20T07:28:46 < jadew> btw, the limiting actually starts happening before the threshold level (at about 0 dBm input), but the threshold level is when the insertion loss is 1 dB higher than at low input power levels
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2019-05-20T08:18:38 < bitmask>  The LMT-030-2 attempts to meet that specification
2019-05-20T08:18:43 < bitmask> do you really want to say attempts?
2019-05-20T08:19:06 < jadew> bitmask, I can't say that it meets, because it depends on how much power you put into it
2019-05-20T08:20:12 < bitmask> say that it meets up to a certain amount I dunno, I'm just nitpicking, just sounds a little like it may or may not work, dunno til you try :) 
2019-05-20T08:21:10 < jadew> I had second thoughts on that line too, but the reality is that you have to pay attention to what you're doing
2019-05-20T08:21:17 < bitmask> looks good though!
2019-05-20T08:21:23 < bitmask> true
2019-05-20T08:21:24 < jadew> thanks
2019-05-20T08:22:33 < jadew> the power vs frequency plot shows you the conditions in which that specification is met
2019-05-20T08:22:54 < jadew> generally speaking, <= ~19 dBm input
2019-05-20T08:23:44 < jadew> but that's the worst case scenario and that limit is higher at specific frequencies
2019-05-20T08:23:48 < bitmask> maybe say that instead? I dont really know enough about what it is/does to give advice.  RF is over my head at the moment
2019-05-20T08:24:01 < bitmask> oh I see
2019-05-20T08:24:05 < bitmask> yea thats a tough one
2019-05-20T08:25:39 < jadew> yeah, I'll think about rephrasing
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2019-05-20T08:25:54 < jadew> it's interesting you noticed that, considering I also had second thoughts about it
2019-05-20T08:30:11 < jadew> I have to run, thanks for the input
2019-05-20T08:30:12 < jadew> ttyl
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2019-05-20T13:23:41 < karlp> heh, good job honyewell: https://imgur.com/a/uA6cI6J
2019-05-20T13:24:38 < Thorn> software bug destroys hardware?
2019-05-20T13:25:44 < qyx> more than once per hour?
2019-05-20T13:25:58 < qyx> isn't that ~always the case?
2019-05-20T13:26:41 < Thorn> yeah who would ever poll less than hourly irl
2019-05-20T13:28:45 < karlp> well, for some of these people, "hourly" is "insanely fast" but yeah,
2019-05-20T13:29:45 < karlp> thankfully, this is not applicable to me, just notes in the same doc I need
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2019-05-20T13:33:09 < qyx> karlp: hows your pci-e connector project going?
2019-05-20T13:35:42 < boddax> When loaded the firmware wich best way to debug the boot ?
2019-05-20T13:36:13 < boddax> I mean what software is the e
2019-05-20T13:36:31 < boddax> Besr*
2019-05-20T13:38:04 < karlp> qyx: currently blocked up behind other work unfortunately.
2019-05-20T13:38:32 < karlp> had hoped to have sent out a first spin to start testing somethings over the summer, but I'm only working 50% at the moment, so it' sbeen a bit hectic
2019-05-20T13:39:56 < dongs> boddax: jlink ozone
2019-05-20T13:41:02 < karlp> was boddax the one who couldn't get atollic/cubeide to work, or who had the vl disco?
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2019-05-20T13:41:56 < dongs> yeah he ss ome retarded french italian who ccant english
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2019-05-20T13:42:57 < boddax> No ..was neverville have problem
2019-05-20T13:43:31 < boddax> I have anther problem lol
2019-05-20T13:43:39 < boddax> another
2019-05-20T13:44:23 < boddax> different ..with non booting simple board
2019-05-20T13:45:58 < dongs> i dont wanna figure shit out, on a SMD diode + is usually the marked or non-marked end?
2019-05-20T13:47:25 < qyx> the current flows from unmarked to marked end
2019-05-20T13:47:36 < qyx> google some arduino fritzing image
2019-05-20T13:47:43 < boddax> Marked yes
2019-05-20T13:47:56 < karlp> mark is normally the bar on the diode symbol...
2019-05-20T13:48:00 < karlp> (is how I remember it)
2019-05-20T13:49:28 < Thorn> dongs: - is marked on everything I used (normal schottky, tvs, esd)
2019-05-20T13:50:34 < qyx> if - is K, then yes
2019-05-20T13:50:38 < boddax> Not sure about protection diode like the poke600
2019-05-20T13:50:54 < dongs> ok
2019-05-20T13:51:17 < Thorn> protection diodes may be symmetric in which case there are no markings
2019-05-20T13:51:28 < boddax> I think so
2019-05-20T13:51:43 < qyx> I have some bidirectional TVS with marking :P
2019-05-20T13:52:11 < Thorn> or they may be extra weird (different breakdown voltages in each direction) in which case there is no A or K but there is still a mark
2019-05-20T13:52:17 < boddax> Maybe fake chinese diodes :)
2019-05-20T13:53:56 < boddax> While ago got problem with my usb blaster not recognized later on discover that bricked by original driver chip
2019-05-20T13:56:00 < qyx> ok, having libopencm3 running either on F401 or F411 running exactly the same firmware, the only difference is the SRAM 64K vs 128K
2019-05-20T13:56:11 < qyx> how do I conditionally define it in the linker script?
2019-05-20T13:57:33 < dongs> i would haev said use keil but that doesnt support libcrap32
2019-05-20T13:57:36 < qyx>     flash (rx)  : ORIGIN = DEFINED(bootloaderSymbol) ? 0x00000000 : 0x00004000, LENGTH = DEFINED(bootloaderSymbol) ? 112K : 16K
2019-05-20T13:57:43 < qyx> oh, it seems to be possible somehow
2019-05-20T13:58:33 < karlp> just use different linker sc ripts?
2019-05-20T13:59:16 < qyx> mhm it doesn't solve my problem actually because it has to be determined at runtime
2019-05-20T13:59:29 < Thorn> and put common definitions into another script and include it 
2019-05-20T13:59:32 < karlp> why....
2019-05-20T13:59:35 < qyx> during compile/link time I don't know the board revision
2019-05-20T13:59:47 < karlp> don't flash the wrong software tot he wrong board?
2019-05-20T13:59:52 < karlp> have two binaries.
2019-05-20T14:00:03 < qyx> yeah those are proper options
2019-05-20T14:00:17 < qyx> I am trying to find a solution not requiring two different bionaries
2019-05-20T14:00:26 < karlp> only use 64k ram? :)
2019-05-20T14:00:35 < qyx> hrmpfh
2019-05-20T14:00:49 < karlp> I mean, what are you going to do with the rest of the ram anyway?
2019-05-20T14:01:24 < karlp> you could probably have your startup code read the product code registers and mangle the stack pointer?
2019-05-20T14:01:43 < qyx> multiple jobs, there is gsm + mqtt + couple of protocols running, CLI (also remote), etc
2019-05-20T14:02:02 < qyx> I am running out of ram mainly because of the architecture
2019-05-20T14:02:17 < qyx> some services are not optimized
2019-05-20T14:02:26 < karlp> at least classsically, you'd only need to be bringing downt he stack pointer to chop off the last bit of memory you don't have, all the heap and initialized data would have filled up from start of ram?
2019-05-20T14:02:49 < karlp> hrm, need to edit some visio files. this will be fun.
2019-05-20T14:03:13 < qyx> no, the thing uses freertos and malloc during init is allowed
2019-05-20T14:03:33 < qyx> so all services allocate memory one-by-one during runtime
2019-05-20T14:04:42 < qyx> but in some situations more/different services are enabled in the configuration (also runtime)
2019-05-20T14:05:34 < karlp> so, what variables are actually changing in your linker script?
2019-05-20T14:06:56 < qyx> I'll just add a switch to menuconfig to select 128K or 64K and export it through a LD variable
2019-05-20T14:07:22 < qyx> and try some startup code trickery to detect it at runtime
2019-05-20T14:07:26 < qyx> later.. maybe
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2019-05-20T19:56:49 < boddax> before i ask wich best debugger for the boot ..i mean freeware software 
2019-05-20T19:57:35 < qyx> idk if I am parsing your sentence correctly, but try openocd
2019-05-20T20:01:00 < boddax> can be installed on win10?
2019-05-20T20:01:15 < mawk> yes
2019-05-20T20:01:22 < mawk> maybe build it
2019-05-20T20:01:28 < mawk> but you know how to build things I guess
2019-05-20T20:02:37 < boddax> cross compiling or something like msys64
2019-05-20T20:03:09 < mawk> it's not cross compiling if you're building on windows for windows
2019-05-20T20:03:36 < mawk> I'd use msys yes because I never used VC but you can do what you want
2019-05-20T20:03:57 < boddax> ok thanks lets try
2019-05-20T20:04:22 < Rickta59> if you are on windows why not just use the st stuff?
2019-05-20T20:05:16 < Rickta59> https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/st-link-server.html
2019-05-20T20:10:24 < boddax> ok i try both of them
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2019-05-20T20:36:58 < Steffanx> one just downloads prebuild binaries for windows..
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2019-05-20T20:44:19 < mawk> yes but openocd last release is old Steffanx 
2019-05-20T20:44:25 < mawk> for some newer boards you need the git version
2019-05-20T20:49:47 < Steffanx> 28 days isnt that old..
2019-05-20T20:57:14 < boddax> tgis kind of board reset pin dont have any contact ..is dead
2019-05-20T20:57:44 < boddax> only swdio and clock pin , means need special firmware?
2019-05-20T20:58:11 < boddax> with stlink to connect i need to touch the reset pin
2019-05-20T20:58:30 < boddax> or wont connect if i dont do that
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2019-05-20T21:11:05 < boddax> can you openocd.cfg for stlink2
2019-05-20T21:11:09 < boddax> share
2019-05-20T21:12:24 < qyx> openocd contains stlinkv2-1 configuration which works out of box
2019-05-20T21:12:34 < qyx> for nrst-less swdio
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2019-05-20T21:17:13 < boddax> i seen but say Error: An adapter speed is not selected in the init script. Insert a call to adapter_khz or jtag_rclk to proceed.
2019-05-20T21:32:29 < qyx> how do you run it?
2019-05-20T21:32:31 < boddax> okay working 
2019-05-20T21:32:40 < boddax> but do nothing
2019-05-20T21:33:13 < boddax> still the problem with i need to touch nrst pin with reset pin of stlink
2019-05-20T21:34:28 < boddax> Info : Listening on port 3333 for gdb connections
2019-05-20T21:35:06 < boddax> if i remove the reset temporary contact then Info : Listening on port 3333 for gdb connections
2019-05-20T21:35:22 < boddax> Error: jtag status contains invalid mode value - communication failure
2019-05-20T21:37:57 < boddax> then with one hand busy keeping the contact its hard to do something else :))
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2019-05-20T22:35:35 < mawk> I mean last official stable release Steffanx 
2019-05-20T22:35:39 < mawk> it's more than 2 years
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2019-05-20T22:37:30 < Steffanx> oh thats irrelevant
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2019-05-20T23:33:20 < aandrew> https://ungleich.ch/en-us/cms/blog/2019/05/20/linux-distros-without-systemd/
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2019-05-20T23:45:19 < englishman> "Is Slackware dead?" is actually one of the most frequently asked questions on Google Slackware search.
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2019-05-20T23:47:57 < onio> Hi does anyone have an I2C slave example that I can use as a template. I am working on Nucleo board STM32H743ZI. 
2019-05-20T23:48:29 < zyp> englishman, no wonder :)
2019-05-20T23:51:23 < englishman> https://github.com/void-linux/void-mklive/issues/69
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2019-05-21T00:08:57 < rajkosto> is there like a reference emitter that can be used to calibrate color sensors ?
2019-05-21T00:09:44 < Cracki> there are reference matte color cards
2019-05-21T00:09:52 < rajkosto> yes but those need a reference light source
2019-05-21T00:09:58 < Cracki> those colorimetry things for displays are calibrated at factory
2019-05-21T00:10:12 < rajkosto> i just want an OLED or something that is perfectly calibrated
2019-05-21T00:10:17 < Cracki> reference light source could be the sun in a clear sky
2019-05-21T00:10:18 < rajkosto> just a little squar
2019-05-21T00:10:39 < Cracki> _probably_ a sheet of paper is neutral white
2019-05-21T00:10:51 < rajkosto> a sheet of paper is only as good as the reference light source
2019-05-21T00:11:09 < Cracki> if you want (near) perfect, you'll have to talk to companies that certify such calibrations :P
2019-05-21T00:11:16 < Cracki> SUN is a reference light source
2019-05-21T00:11:17 < qyx> jeat something to a reference tem!perature then
2019-05-21T00:11:28 < qyx> heat
2019-05-21T00:11:29 < karlp> harhar
2019-05-21T00:11:32 < Cracki> if you ignore the absorption (and diffusion) of the atmosphere
2019-05-21T00:11:36 < rajkosto> sun is unpredictable changes depending on cloudyness and whats in the atmosphere
2019-05-21T00:11:40 < rajkosto> and time of day
2019-05-21T00:11:50 < Cracki> good point, heat something up to 6000 kelvin and look at its spectrum
2019-05-21T00:11:59 < rajkosto> also if you put sensor on top of the matte thing the sensor will shadow the thing
2019-05-21T00:12:04 < Cracki> tungsten light bulbs for photographers probably do that
2019-05-21T00:12:23 < rajkosto> anyway the matte colorimetry charts work fine if you want THOSE colors
2019-05-21T00:12:27 < rajkosto> what if i want arbitrary colors
2019-05-21T00:12:32 < Cracki> lol
2019-05-21T00:12:33 < Cracki> interpolate
2019-05-21T00:12:41 < Cracki> or be content with the white point you get from them
2019-05-21T00:12:45 < qyx> you need an arbitrary chart then, don't you?
2019-05-21T00:12:58 < Cracki> arbitrary goal posts too
2019-05-21T00:13:15 < rajkosto> woudnt it be easier to make a small calibrated display
2019-05-21T00:13:24 < rajkosto> that i can just ptu sensor over
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2019-05-21T00:13:35 < Cracki> and how would you make such a "small calibrated display"
2019-05-21T00:13:49 < rajkosto> they woudl factory calibrate its gamma and color matrices
2019-05-21T00:14:03 < Cracki> first you'd have to understand what a color spectrum is and how humans (and sensors) turn that into values
2019-05-21T00:14:07 < rajkosto> i know how
2019-05-21T00:14:26 < Cracki> so go buy a color-calibrated flatscreen? :P
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2019-05-21T00:14:44 < rajkosto> a waste when i only need one emitter not 4megapixels of them
2019-05-21T00:14:56 < karlp> you're going to flawlessly align one emitter now?
2019-05-21T00:15:04 < karlp> anyway, for real answers, speak to jpa, this is his business.
2019-05-21T00:16:40 < Cracki> the truest reference you can get is radiation from a heated blackbody
2019-05-21T00:16:49 < Cracki> to get back to your original question
2019-05-21T00:16:56 < englishman> is it really
2019-05-21T00:17:08 < Cracki> so to get that, you need to measure temperature
2019-05-21T00:17:14 < rajkosto> thats just for whitepoint
2019-05-21T00:17:17 < Cracki> so
2019-05-21T00:17:20 < rajkosto> theres more to display calibration than setting whitepoint
2019-05-21T00:17:25 < Cracki> certainly
2019-05-21T00:17:35 < englishman> karlp: who is chatting
2019-05-21T00:18:02 < englishman> didn't know that about jpa maybe il ask later
2019-05-21T00:18:53 < qyx> good to know
2019-05-21T00:20:25 < Cracki> wait, now you want to calibrate a display, or don't you?
2019-05-21T00:20:34 < Cracki> or do you want to build your own calibration device?
2019-05-21T00:21:06 < Cracki> or do you really just want "reference emitters"
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2019-05-21T00:59:38 < rajkosto> i just need to calibrate a X Y Z tridiode
2019-05-21T01:12:19 < rajkosto> cant i assume brightness from PWM'd RGB leds is linear ?
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2019-05-21T01:58:08 < catphish> you could, you'll probably be disapointed :)
2019-05-21T02:12:28 < karlp> this is starting to smell like autism
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2019-05-21T02:13:01 < mawk> don't you have curves in the datasheet rajkosto ?
2019-05-21T02:13:19 < rajkosto> curves for what
2019-05-21T02:13:44 < rajkosto> i dont mean RGB leds with integrated controller, just ones you PWM yourself with stm32 timers
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2019-05-21T02:14:59 < BrainDamage> brightness is proportional to input power
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2019-05-21T02:15:18 < BrainDamage> if you regulate current, it's I*V, with V can be assumed constant
2019-05-21T02:15:43 < rajkosto> it doesnt have to be, waste heat could scale differently than linear
2019-05-21T02:16:12 < BrainDamage> yeah, the V changes with e^2/3T
2019-05-21T02:16:29 < rajkosto> but PWM-ing a constant current should make the brightness scale linearly
2019-05-21T02:26:13 < mawk> brightness is linear with light power if it's not too bright right ?
2019-05-21T02:26:27 < mawk> before that the eye saturates
2019-05-21T02:26:39 < BrainDamage> that's the eye response, not the brightness of the object
2019-05-21T02:26:48 < mawk> yes
2019-05-21T02:26:55 < mawk> it's what I mean by brightness, eye response
2019-05-21T02:27:17 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_correction
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2019-05-21T02:28:56 < mawk> I see
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2019-05-21T03:00:05 < Cracki> yes, for perfect pwm, fraction of output power is proportional to duty cycle
2019-05-21T03:00:28 < Cracki> because voltage and current are still either 0 or constant
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2019-05-21T03:02:39 < Cracki> everything else is trying to model nonlinearities (phosphorus on CRTs, animal perception) or squeezing the most out of 8 or so bits
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2019-05-21T03:03:00 < rajkosto> yeah but i can have 16bit PWM on stm32 no problem
2019-05-21T03:03:12 < Cracki> modern standardized "gamma curves" aren't even just something to the power of 2.4 or 2.2, but they have linear pieces near zero
2019-05-21T03:03:13 < rajkosto> which should be enough for 8bit sRGB -> 16bit linear
2019-05-21T03:03:32 < Cracki> and then you have color matrices that are specified to single or half percents
2019-05-21T03:04:07 < Cracki> and still very few people bother to define things properly, and instead assume gamma-compressed spaces can be dealt with linearly
2019-05-21T03:04:43 < Cracki> you'll have to calibrate red green and blue to be equal brightness
2019-05-21T03:04:55 < rajkosto> thats just whitepoint calibration
2019-05-21T03:04:58 < Cracki> according to either your eyes or some other "neutral" observer
2019-05-21T03:05:15 < Cracki> and you'll have to know the wavelengths your leds emit
2019-05-21T03:05:16 < rajkosto> if its a guarantee the brightness (photons emitted, not perceptual) is linear with PWM
2019-05-21T03:05:26 < rajkosto> whitepoint scaling is no problem
2019-05-21T03:05:28 < Cracki> and run that through response curves
2019-05-21T03:07:45 < rajkosto> i can apply arbitrary scale to each linear 16-bit value
2019-05-21T03:08:48 < rajkosto> the whitepoint is already pretty good enough as it would be, though
2019-05-21T03:09:42 < rajkosto> i assume they match the RGB leds in one package for that already
2019-05-21T03:11:58 < rajkosto> better than scaling the  values i could also just replace the resistors used to set the current
2019-05-21T03:13:28 < zyp> so what are you doing? building a monitor out of single pixels run by a stm32 each?
2019-05-21T03:13:40 < rajkosto> obvioulsy
2019-05-21T03:13:43 < rajkosto> supercomputing stm32 cluster
2019-05-21T03:14:10 < rajkosto> nah i just need a shiny cube capable of sRGB with a deltaE of like 1
2019-05-21T03:14:30 < zyp> wat
2019-05-21T03:14:41 < rajkosto> shiny rgb cube
2019-05-21T03:14:51 < Cracki> not watts, lumens
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2019-05-21T05:19:29 < dongs> looking for <= 24Vin LDO with power good/overcurrent out pin
2019-05-21T05:19:39 < dongs> something like TPS7A19 but available in china
2019-05-21T05:21:34 < dongs> time to see if parametric search on digikey is good
2019-05-21T05:29:21 < dongs> hmm
2019-05-21T05:29:28 < dongs> digikey search doesnt remove impossible options
2019-05-21T05:29:32 < dongs> once ytou narrowed down some stuff
2019-05-21T05:29:38 < dongs> i.e. i selected vin/current
2019-05-21T05:29:51 < dongs> but it leaves control features box full of shit that is already irrelevant for those selections
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2019-05-21T05:33:23 < dongs> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/linear-technology-analog-devices/LT3086EDHD-PBF/LT3086EDHD-PBF-ND/4755520 fuck outta here LT
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2019-05-21T05:36:39 < dongs> http://www.ti.com/product/LM117HVQML-SP haha space grade
2019-05-21T05:42:12 < dongs> ooh
2019-05-21T05:42:21 < dongs> ricktek has a very nice search
2019-05-21T05:43:58 < dongs> but all their shit with PG is <= 5.5V in
2019-05-21T05:43:59 < dongs> lame
2019-05-21T05:45:21 < dongs> https://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=NCP370 hmmm
2019-05-21T05:45:25 < dongs> this is what i *really* want tho
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2019-05-21T05:50:56 < dongs> hmm or not
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2019-05-21T06:02:32 < dongs> https://www.analog.com/en/products/lt3065.html is in chian but still $2.5 lols
2019-05-21T06:07:44 < dongs> hmm microchip search sucks
2019-05-21T06:07:47 < dongs> no features
2019-05-21T06:08:59 < englishman> just put a led on the power output. if the led is on, power is good.
2019-05-21T06:09:34 < dongs> lol yeah, great idea
2019-05-21T06:12:39 < dongs> the thing is, i want to not smoke the board AND be notified that its about to smoke
2019-05-21T06:12:43 < dongs> which is why pg is kinda required
2019-05-21T06:12:50 < dongs> that TI part is perfect for waht i need but i cant buy it
2019-05-21T06:15:54 < dongs> oooh ge31-49.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-05-21T06:15:54 < dongs> 02:50 < dongs> hmm or not
2019-05-21T06:15:55 < dongs> err
2019-05-21T06:16:04 < dongs> MIC5239
2019-05-21T06:16:27 < dongs> wait waht
2019-05-21T06:16:27 < dongs> fuck
2019-05-21T06:16:31 < dongs> FLG is only in fixed output versions
2019-05-21T06:16:43 < dongs> HOW FUCKING RETARDED
2019-05-21T06:20:19 < englishman> which ti part the space grade one? that doesnt have pgood?
2019-05-21T06:21:14 < englishman> oh TPS7A19
2019-05-21T06:21:29 < dongs> yes latter
2019-05-21T06:22:01 < englishman> whoa an EN pin on a TI part that has the same voltage range as the power input
2019-05-21T06:22:06 < englishman> rare find
2019-05-21T06:22:47 < englishman> arent there standalone parts for this
2019-05-21T06:24:04 < dongs> i donno, im open to suggestions
2019-05-21T06:24:10 < dongs> the NCP shit i found is opposite of what iw ant
2019-05-21T06:24:27 < dongs> i want to protect output from overload/shortcircuit
2019-05-21T06:29:04 < mawk> http://www.ti.com/lit/ml/mpds018n/mpds018n.pdf
2019-05-21T06:29:10 < mawk> why are there two numbers for the lengths
2019-05-21T06:29:20 < mawk> which one should I trust
2019-05-21T06:29:32 < dongs> ? you mean the 3.05\2/75?
2019-05-21T06:29:36 < dongs> thats just your usual minmax shit
2019-05-21T06:29:41 < dongs> you can take average or max or whatever
2019-05-21T06:29:46 < dongs> any decent PCB software will ask for both
2019-05-21T06:29:52 < dongs> and calcualte based on IPC or wahtever teh fuck rules
2019-05-21T06:29:54 < mawk> yes
2019-05-21T06:30:00 < mawk> ah I see
2019-05-21T06:30:05 < mawk> thanks
2019-05-21T06:30:12 < dongs> how do you not have a SOT23-5 footprint already prepared tho
2019-05-21T06:30:46 < mawk> I probably have, I was just wondering
2019-05-21T06:31:02 < mawk> it's moulded plastic case, how can there be such variations
2019-05-21T06:31:19 < englishman> dongs, dps1133?
2019-05-21T06:31:24 < mawk> it's like they have several factories that do not match each other
2019-05-21T06:31:40 < dongs> lol that's probably not $0.50
2019-05-21T06:32:11 < englishman> that's a negative statement
2019-05-21T06:32:27 < dongs> mawk, that is literally waht happens
2019-05-21T06:32:37 < dongs> packaging of ICs can happen at completely different locations
2019-05-21T06:32:38 < dongs> even with STM32.
2019-05-21T06:32:50 < dongs> you have MYS, CHN, and i forget what other place that they package it at.
2019-05-21T06:32:54 < dongs> even the fonts are slightly different
2019-05-21T06:33:07 < englishman> let me know what chinababe sends back for dps1133 price
2019-05-21T06:33:41 < dongs> based on not immediate response im gonna guess not avialle
2019-05-21T06:34:06 < englishman> hmm that would suck
2019-05-21T06:34:25 < dongs> hmm MPS doesn't do linear regulators
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2019-05-21T06:43:28 < Thorn__> attn c++17 users https://twitter.com/olson_dan/status/917814087324549120?lang=en
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2019-05-21T06:44:03 < Thorn> if richtek is in Taiwan why doesn't lcsc carry more of their products?
2019-05-21T06:48:08 < englishman> they dont sell to plebs?
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2019-05-21T06:54:54 < englishman> https://github.com/bastulli/AutoCarJetsonNano
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2019-05-21T06:57:15 < dongs>  Jupyter Notebook 98.5%
2019-05-21T06:57:17 < dongs> the what
2019-05-21T07:02:36 < dongs> englishman: not available as expected
2019-05-21T07:02:56 < dongs> i thought of maybe using dioedes current measurement ICs and just using voltage from that as gpio
2019-05-21T07:02:56 < englishman> nice
2019-05-21T07:03:07 < englishman> englishman exclusive
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2019-05-21T07:04:55 < dongs> wait MPS does have linear regs
2019-05-21T07:04:58 < dongs> why the fuck its not in thier site
2019-05-21T07:05:06 < dongs> https://www.monolithicpower.com/en/mpq2019-aec1.html
2019-05-21T07:05:12 < dongs> this would be perfect if it was 400-450ma
2019-05-21T07:06:53 < dongs> MPQ2029 is exactly waht i need
2019-05-21T07:07:56 < dongs> its also not cheap
2019-05-21T07:18:03 < dongs> oh, its EOL
2019-05-21T07:20:22 < dongs> https://www.monolithicpower.com/en/products/dc-dc-power-conversion/ldo-voltage-supervisory/ldo/single-channel/mp2014.html is in china
2019-05-21T07:20:28 < dongs> but fixed output only
2019-05-21T07:28:03 < dongs> i wonder if lm7085 trick of adding a resistor dividedr would work on it
2019-05-21T07:28:06 < dongs> to increase voltage
2019-05-21T08:45:01 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-21_07-44-39_v2hFJH4u9.jpg how do i best connect wires to the circle
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2019-05-21T08:49:15 < dongs> where doyou need to connect?
2019-05-21T08:49:19 < dongs> at those RGBW points?
2019-05-21T08:49:25 < rajkosto> where the blobs are
2019-05-21T08:49:32 < rajkosto> im going from the outside to keep the inside neat
2019-05-21T08:49:41 < dongs> where's GND?
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2019-05-21T08:49:51 < dongs> oh, tehres +
2019-05-21T08:50:35 < rajkosto> common anode not cathode
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2019-05-21T09:12:56 < Steffanx> Where is antto ?
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2019-05-21T09:13:20 < antto> right here
2019-05-21T09:15:32  * antto eyeballz Steffanx...
2019-05-21T09:28:05 < qyx> subrack parts seem to be mostly unavailable :S
2019-05-21T09:31:13 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-21_08-30-58_uJnBTw2GS.jpg it has power... but how ?
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2019-05-21T10:39:49 < qyx> do you know any china subrack extrusion/guide rails manufacturer?
2019-05-21T10:40:23 < qyx> this thing https://media.rs-online.com/t_large/R8753547-01.jpg
2019-05-21T10:43:09 < qyx> so far I found only elevator steel guide rails
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2019-05-21T11:20:30 < dongs> how the fuck did altifuck draftsman export fail to mark parts for assembly that are under sockets
2019-05-21T11:20:33 < dongs> what fucking garbage
2019-05-21T11:20:47 < dongs> i have a ddr conector and a bunch of shit under it
2019-05-21T11:20:52 < dongs> it didn't mark any of the shit under
2019-05-21T11:20:55 < dongs> retarded nigger shit
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2019-05-21T11:37:45 < jly> yeah
2019-05-21T11:49:09 < dongs> what can be used to bounce serial port to internets
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2019-05-21T11:50:34 < zyp> raspberry pi?
2019-05-21T11:50:39 < dongs> ... ?
2019-05-21T11:50:48 < dongs> how would that work
2019-05-21T12:02:18 < Thorn> namespace wtf = std;  // make code more readable
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2019-05-21T12:19:14 < karlp> dongs: ser2net is purpsoe built for that sort of thing,
2019-05-21T12:19:25 < karlp> but you can often make it close enough with just socat.
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2019-05-21T13:14:56 < dongs> holy shit the moment you want to do something nontrivial with niggerberry the docs are sparse
2019-05-21T13:15:52 < karlp> well, there stops being "rpi" docs for it, because it's just back to being "some old linux pc" again
2019-05-21T13:16:35 < dongs> trying to figure out pin mapping between the shit in dts/devicetree and physical pins
2019-05-21T13:17:06 < dongs> https://lb.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=237796 i fucking LOVE this answer
2019-05-21T13:17:10 < dongs> marked as solved, too
2019-05-21T13:17:18 < dongs> "do something else completely unrelated"
2019-05-21T13:18:01 < dongs> N.B. The "pin" numbers are in the Broadcom namespace - not pin numbers on the header (which changed with the introduction of the B+, and doesn't exist on the Compute Module).
2019-05-21T13:25:15 < dongs> FUCKING SHIT WHY IS THIS FUCKING INFO NOWEHRE TO BE FOUND
2019-05-21T13:25:20 < dongs> what the actual fuck
2019-05-21T13:25:40 < dongs> time to join rageberrypi and troll
2019-05-21T13:28:00 < BrainDamage> what's the device you actually have?
2019-05-21T13:28:07 < dongs> what doyou mean?
2019-05-21T13:28:26 < qyx> yeah there are like 3 different numbering
2019-05-21T13:28:28 < qyx> s
2019-05-21T13:28:41 < qyx> wiring pi numbering, bcmxxxx numbering and gpio numbering
2019-05-21T13:28:52 < BrainDamage> is it a standard rpi?
2019-05-21T13:29:15 < BrainDamage> https://pinout.xyz
2019-05-21T13:29:39 < dongs> wait i think i just figured it out, the numbers are correct, i forgot i moved gpclk from 42 to like 6 or omsehit but i thought thats wehre it was on default
2019-05-21T13:30:19 < dongs> ya, shit matches now
2019-05-21T13:30:19 < dongs> ok
2019-05-21T13:30:40 < qyx> selfrage
2019-05-21T13:30:54 < dongs> yep selfonwed
2019-05-21T13:33:09 < dongs> now where the fuck do they configure gp_clk
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2019-05-21T14:28:57 < Thorn>  stdext::inplace_function is AWESOME
2019-05-21T14:34:02 < Thorn> using callback_t = stdext::inplace_function<void(), 8, 4>;  void start_timer(uint32_t time, callback_t callback);
2019-05-21T14:35:52 < Thorn> start_timer(1000, [&]() {.foo = 0; });
2019-05-21T14:37:10 < Thorn> i.e. you can use capturing lambdas and functor. objects like std::function but without malloc()s behind the scenes
2019-05-21T14:51:21 < Thorn> and std::bind 
2019-05-21T15:01:33 < qyx> for STM32-ers without enough SRAM LY68L6400
2019-05-21T15:01:44 < qyx> 8Mx8 PSRAM with QSPI
2019-05-21T15:02:07 < qyx> it is like $0.90 in singles
2019-05-21T15:05:02 < qyx> and 400uA in standby
2019-05-21T15:14:55 < futarisIRCcloud> qyx: Looks similar to IPUS IoT RAM... http://www.ipusltd.com/Products_en.html
2019-05-21T15:17:54 < qyx> yeah
2019-05-21T15:18:19 < qyx> no datasheet :(
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2019-05-21T15:48:30 < Cracki> next they'll release "IoT resistors"
2019-05-21T15:48:56 < Cracki> already placed onto breakout modules with helpfully labeled pins
2019-05-21T15:49:37 < Thorn> Cracki: https://www.thingbits.net/products/dfrobot-gravity-analog-voltage-divider-v2
2019-05-21T15:50:36 < Cracki> *weeps*
2019-05-21T15:50:44 < Thorn> not (yet) labeled "IoT" though
2019-05-21T15:50:54 < Cracki> they should have used grove connectors
2019-05-21T15:51:08 < Cracki> then it's a "proper sensor"
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2019-05-21T15:54:18 < emeryth> Cracki: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/881711362/iv-robotics-first-resistorsandcapacitor-adapted-to
2019-05-21T15:56:48 < Cracki> like bitch what, have THT components not been invented yet
2019-05-21T15:57:24 < Cracki> and that shit only goes into adjacent holes, unlike a proper tht legged resistor, cap, led, ... that you can bend and cut however you like
2019-05-21T15:58:02 < Cracki> I'm glad it's only at 11k. not enough for him to buy himself a fucking boat or whatever
2019-05-21T15:59:43 < dongs> what in the fuck
2019-05-21T15:59:50 < Cracki> can someone milkshake that dude pls
2019-05-21T15:59:55 < dongs> why does rtorrent not have an obvious way to read a bunch of links from a file
2019-05-21T15:59:56 < Cracki> he needs the calcium
2019-05-21T15:59:56 < dongs> to laod them
2019-05-21T16:00:07 < dongs> like wget -i or wahtever
2019-05-21T16:00:14 < Cracki> uh, what ways does it have to add a torrent?
2019-05-21T16:00:24 < dongs> no idea
2019-05-21T16:00:28 < Cracki> sounds to me like a shell for-loop
2019-05-21T16:00:29 < dongs> i have a bunch of shit in a list
2019-05-21T16:00:32 < dongs> no
2019-05-21T16:01:22 < Cracki> so it has a prompt
2019-05-21T16:01:39 < Cracki> does it flip its shit when you paste several lines into that?
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2019-05-21T16:02:06 < karlp> who's futarisIRCcloud ?
2019-05-21T16:02:30 < dongs> prolly the australian cunt
2019-05-21T16:02:31 < Cracki> it has watch directories
2019-05-21T16:02:37 < dongs> why would i need watch directrories
2019-05-21T16:02:38 < dongs> holy shit
2019-05-21T16:02:42 < dongs> i have a list of magnet:// shits
2019-05-21T16:02:46 < dongs> all it neesd to do is laod the crap
2019-05-21T16:02:49 < Cracki> heh
2019-05-21T16:02:50 < dongs> how the fuck can this not work
2019-05-21T16:03:27 < dongs> https://github.com/rakshasa/rtorrent/issues/822 ???
2019-05-21T16:03:40 < Cracki> lol
2019-05-21T16:03:58 < Cracki> so copy and paste a multiline snippet maybe
2019-05-21T16:04:06 < Cracki> and hope it interprets the pasted newline as a newline
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2019-05-21T16:08:00 < futarisIRCcloud> I did see someone use that PSRAM on an ESP32.
2019-05-21T16:11:10 < Cracki> haha the predictable comments on that dickstarter
2019-05-21T16:15:43 < englishman> wtf someone offered $2k for the dicknplace
2019-05-21T16:16:30 < englishman> with feeders
2019-05-21T16:18:11 < karlp> what were you hoping for?
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2019-05-21T16:24:57 < dongs> Cracki: fuckit i just used another torrent instead
2019-05-21T16:25:23 < Cracki> next time try pasting it
2019-05-21T16:26:45 < dongs> it didnt work
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2019-05-21T16:47:55 < englishman> karlp: 6-7k usd at least which is still less than half replacement cost
2019-05-21T16:48:01 < englishman> 2k is a major lowball
2019-05-21T16:48:15 < englishman> I'd rather throw it away
2019-05-21T16:48:20 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
2019-05-21T16:49:49 < karlp> wat
2019-05-21T16:51:41 < englishman> for 2k you get one of those junk desktop machines with no feeders 
2019-05-21T16:51:48 < englishman> like not even close
2019-05-21T16:52:03 < karlp> you'd rather throw it away than get2k and have it be used though?
2019-05-21T16:52:13 < karlp> captain planet is concerned!
2019-05-21T16:52:16 < englishman> 2kcad is $1500 usd
2019-05-21T16:52:58 < englishman> it is not worth it for me to sell at that price
2019-05-21T16:53:17 < englishman> the moment I have to put time into any questions, it starts to cost
2019-05-21T16:53:21 < karlp> you are ok with storing it until you get a better offer?
2019-05-21T16:53:30 < englishman> yes, or junk it, or I need it again
2019-05-21T16:53:40 < karlp> how is junking it better than selling it?
2019-05-21T16:53:45 < englishman> no effort
2019-05-21T16:54:04 < englishman> I never have to talk to the buyer or deal with his questions
2019-05-21T16:55:05 < englishman> 1500 usd might as well be 0
2019-05-21T16:55:49 < englishman> I spent 8k on Murata drop in ldos this month.... lol
2019-05-21T16:56:08 < englishman> fuck me tho
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2019-05-21T16:57:45 < englishman> Ultrasauce: il make you a good deal
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2019-05-21T17:01:10 < Ultrasauce> ffff
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2019-05-21T17:03:58 < Ultrasauce> what model is it
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2019-05-21T17:24:09 < bitmask> someone buy me filament
2019-05-21T17:38:40 < Thorn> bitmask: PETG $10/kg https://www.syntechlab.ru/
2019-05-21T17:39:07 < bitmask> and shipping to the US? 
2019-05-21T17:39:15 < bitmask> zyltech isnt bad, $12 a kg
2019-05-21T17:39:17 < Thorn> spool not included in weight because it is carboard or nonexistent
2019-05-21T17:39:21 < bitmask> not sure about for petg
2019-05-21T17:44:55 < Cracki> Thorn, is that supposed to throw a 502?
2019-05-21T17:45:15 < Thorn> it doesn't for me
2019-05-21T17:45:27 < Cracki> neither my swedish nor my central european IPs get it to work
2019-05-21T17:45:39 < Cracki> ah now it works
2019-05-21T17:46:35 < Thorn> tested with a .nl proxy, works
2019-05-21T18:12:33 < aandrew> heh
2019-05-21T18:12:41 < aandrew> not gonna buy .ru filament if the site won't even offer english menus
2019-05-21T18:13:02 < aandrew> 30 trackers on that site too
2019-05-21T18:13:08 < Steffanx> Oh antto is alive. You're so quiet lately
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2019-05-21T19:13:07 < antto> yes, i am
2019-05-21T19:13:40 < antto> that's an accurate observation
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2019-05-21T19:29:24 < mawk> my wireless non-bluetooth keyboard uses a 2.4GHz nRF24L01+ transceiver
2019-05-21T19:29:28 < Steffanx> And the haohmaru guy is gone, antto . Is he alright? Do you know?
2019-05-21T19:29:46 < mawk> I can intercept it with nRF52840, it supports the Enhanced Shockburst™ proto
2019-05-21T19:29:56 < mawk> I'll try intercepting it
2019-05-21T19:30:04 < mawk> best keylogger in the world
2019-05-21T19:30:35 < Thorn> what if it i s encrypted
2019-05-21T19:30:39 < Thorn> with xor 0x55 or something
2019-05-21T19:30:52 < mawk> I expect no encryption or very weak one
2019-05-21T19:31:02 < mawk> based on previous knowledge
2019-05-21T19:31:21 < mawk> but it's a > 100€ keyboard with a very well made pcb so I don't know
2019-05-21T19:31:31 < mawk> it may be higher encryption than usual
2019-05-21T19:32:43 < mawk> it has thermocouples for the NiMH batteries to detect overheat
2019-05-21T19:33:01 < mawk> it's a XMEGA core, I supose it's arduinoish thing
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2019-05-21T19:46:34 < boddax> who knows fluke 9010A? never heard about any stm32 emulator?
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2019-05-21T19:53:22 < Thorn> boddax: stm32 + good swd+trace probe & software = the best stm32 emulator
2019-05-21T19:55:01 < boddax> Thorn no sorry my english not good enough , fluke 9010a is an old instrument to debug jamme arcade games
2019-05-21T19:55:25 < boddax> still very useful even '80 instrument
2019-05-21T19:55:45 < boddax> near to impossible to find for sale
2019-05-21T19:56:25 < boddax> i'm repairing old hp-tektronix etc.. instruments useful too to test ram and rom
2019-05-21T19:57:08 < boddax> i remake the main board of that instrument and its working ..lacking the display section that was an VFD
2019-05-21T19:57:42 < boddax> wish to swap with stm32 with tft display
2019-05-21T19:59:06 < boddax> display and keyboard is controled by an old intel 8041 mcs family
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2019-05-21T21:15:05 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/N1G4djZ
2019-05-21T21:15:12 < aandrew> so that is what my well pump looked like
2019-05-21T21:15:24 < aandrew> check valve was leaking, they pulled it up and that's what it looked like
2019-05-21T21:15:37 < aandrew> mostly iron and manganese; the pump housing is supposed to be nice and shiny (it's stainless steel)
2019-05-21T21:15:59 < Ultrasauce> yum
2019-05-21T21:16:35 < qyx> zomg
2019-05-21T21:17:06 < Mangy_Dog> D:
2019-05-21T21:17:10 < Mangy_Dog> what is teh black stuff
2019-05-21T21:17:14 < Mangy_Dog> dont drink that
2019-05-21T21:17:17 < Mangy_Dog> please
2019-05-21T21:17:19 < qyx> I had nice yellow-orangish cover
2019-05-21T21:17:31 < qyx> I'll see how does it look line this summer
2019-05-21T21:19:33 < sync> at least the filter worked aandrew
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2019-05-21T21:21:53 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: it's mananese; the iron filter takes care of it
2019-05-21T21:22:34 < aandrew> sync: yep. the first thing the water hits is a 20u particulate filter which I change every 3mos, then an 4' tall iron filter that is regenerated daily
2019-05-21T21:22:41 < aandrew> water is great, just very heavy in iron
2019-05-21T21:22:50 < aandrew> and the mananese in it makes that black crusty shit
2019-05-21T21:22:55 < qyx> regenerated daily?
2019-05-21T21:23:16 < qyx> I have only 50u + 5u particulate now
2019-05-21T21:23:31 < aandrew> qyx: yes, it's like a water softener
2019-05-21T21:23:35 < sync> iron probably wouldn't be so bad, it just tastes strange
2019-05-21T21:23:42 < aandrew> correct, but we have a LOT of iron
2019-05-21T21:23:56 < aandrew> the water is practically magnetic
2019-05-21T21:24:43 < sync> yes, I went on a hike some while back and the rivers in the region were covered in red iron deposits, you could really taste the metal in the water
2019-05-21T21:25:21 < qyx> yeah, we have such streams/wells on the north
2019-05-21T21:26:21 < BrainDamage> there's a spring near my mother's hometown which is called "iron spring", if you take the water and let it settle for a month you can start seeing some rust flakes
2019-05-21T21:26:38 < qyx> https://www.beautifulslovakia.sk/uploads/item_gallery/665_1289.jpg
2019-05-21T21:26:39 < qyx> like this
2019-05-21T21:26:58 < qyx> we have "vajcovka" (~= egg water)
2019-05-21T21:27:03 < qyx> it smells like eggs
2019-05-21T21:27:46 < qyx> because of H2S
2019-05-21T21:28:03 < aandrew> my manganese content before filtering is .0454mg/L. Iron is 3mg/L. After filtering both are below detection limits
2019-05-21T21:28:24 < qyx> how's your NO3x?
2019-05-21T21:28:45 < qyx> no agricultural activity nearby?
2019-05-21T21:33:33 < aandrew> AO for manganese is 0.2mg/L and iron is 0.3mg/L
2019-05-21T21:35:44 < ds2> so many ways to describe the same things :(
2019-05-21T21:35:58 < ds2> mg/L, ppm, etc...
2019-05-21T21:40:13 < benishor> qyx: cool, where's that pic from?
2019-05-21T21:40:31 < benishor> is that picture postprocessed?
2019-05-21T21:42:31 < qyx> idk, never been there
2019-05-21T21:42:36 < qyx> this is near parents house https://media1.denicek.eu/images/media1:50f7c20c74d91.jpg/DSCI0080.JPG
2019-05-21T21:42:45 < qyx> this one is yellowish
2019-05-21T21:43:06 < benishor> what's the other one named?
2019-05-21T21:43:10 < benishor> I'd like to find more pics on it
2019-05-21T21:44:25 < qyx> budis well https://www.beautifulslovakia.sk/mineralny-pramen-budis
2019-05-21T21:48:31 < qyx> or better, nearby https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC1MGBF_kyselka-dubove?guid=28804064-c231-4ea8-89d2-1c8d269d1d19
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2019-05-21T21:55:28 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/3fu3anMtDS8
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2019-05-21T22:38:21 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuWvdmyg9wk kaki recommended musicsvideo
2019-05-21T22:40:20 < Steffanx> whats next pornhub?
2019-05-21T22:41:17 < Steffanx> hows the potbox kakimir?
2019-05-21T22:46:41 < kakimir> forgotten
2019-05-21T22:46:48 < kakimir> I get flashbacks time to time
2019-05-21T22:47:00 < kakimir> I just get stunned
2019-05-21T22:47:19 < kakimir> that I tried to start something hard
2019-05-21T22:49:17 < Steffanx> uuh?
2019-05-21T22:49:17 < kakimir> I forgot to say don't watch kakimusics with wife
2019-05-21T22:50:17 < Steffanx> is kakimir alright? Do you know?
2019-05-21T22:50:47 < kakimir> kaki ok
2019-05-21T22:51:35 < Steffanx> is he ready to share kaalib yet?
2019-05-21T22:52:16 < kakimir> no
2019-05-21T22:52:39 < Steffanx> Will he be?
2019-05-21T22:52:43 < Steffanx> ever
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2019-05-21T23:07:45 < kakimir> I need to inspect it first
2019-05-21T23:07:58 < mawk> what's kaalib
2019-05-21T23:08:05 < kakimir> meme
2019-05-21T23:10:30 < mawk> :(
2019-05-21T23:11:01 < Cracki> this is kaa http://screenprism.com/assets/img/article/_1080x400/jungle_book_snake_kaa_mowgli-wide.jpg
2019-05-21T23:12:43 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@94.15.80.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2019-05-21T23:13:50 < kakimir> that's a big ass snake
2019-05-21T23:14:33 < Cracki> in macro fetish, snek steps on you
2019-05-21T23:18:08 < kakimir> macros have done only good things to me
2019-05-21T23:18:13 < kakimir> I just love macros
2019-05-21T23:18:50 < Cracki> I can imagine
2019-05-21T23:19:28 < kakimir> kaalib doesn't have macros iirc.
2019-05-21T23:20:17 < Steffanx> We will never be sure of that.
2019-05-21T23:20:37 < Steffanx> Unless you have "Share kaalib on github"  in your will.
2019-05-21T23:21:08 < kakimir> maybe few
2019-05-21T23:21:22 < kakimir> instead of hardwriting some separating symbols etc.
2019-05-21T23:21:31 < kakimir> hardwiring
2019-05-21T23:21:35 < kakimir> sorry
2019-05-21T23:21:38 < kakimir> hardcoding
2019-05-21T23:26:27 < kakimir> I should actually starting to polish that kaalib
2019-05-21T23:28:02 < Cracki> >polish that hard snake
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2019-05-21T23:54:26 < kakimir> did you watch GOT end episode?
2019-05-21T23:55:38 < karlp> aye
2019-05-21T23:56:14 < kakimir> I think it's only full episode I have seen
2019-05-21T23:56:17 < kakimir> wait no
2019-05-21T23:56:43 < kakimir> I fell asleep after X stabbed Y to death
2019-05-21T23:57:13 < kakimir> so I have seen 0 full episodes
--- Day changed Wed May 22 2019
2019-05-22T00:00:51 < Cracki> last and second to last had the most profound effect on got "fans"
2019-05-22T00:00:57 < Cracki> love the message
2019-05-22T00:01:58 < kakimir> I went to my friends place to watch
2019-05-22T00:02:17 < kakimir> my friends girlfriend screamed quite a lot
2019-05-22T00:02:51 < specing> :O
2019-05-22T00:02:56 < Cracki> that's what pillows are for
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2019-05-22T00:04:10 < kakimir> we ate and watched and then I wake up and I heard the epic music and saw ending titles rolling
2019-05-22T00:05:39 < Cracki> want to watch it again? just pay the iron price
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2019-05-22T00:07:00 < Cracki> apropos tv shows, Travelers (2016), 3 seasons and finished. good stuff.
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2019-05-22T00:23:46 < mawk> yeah I saw it too
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2019-05-22T00:32:01 < Steffanx> #metoo
2019-05-22T00:32:21 < qyx> hm, seeed s not doing 2mm pcbs
2019-05-22T00:32:30 < qyx> they are, but $$$
2019-05-22T00:33:46 < karlp> huh, I thought elecrow was the same price for all, but yeah, 2mm is more $ there.
2019-05-22T00:33:56 < karlp> not much more, but ~25 vs 5 I guess.....
2019-05-22T00:34:17 < karlp> what do you want 2mm pcb for?
2019-05-22T00:34:48 < qyx> backplane for subrack
2019-05-22T00:35:08 < qyx> a modified one, 50mm board height
2019-05-22T00:35:22 < qyx> instead of a standard 100mm 3U auro
2019-05-22T00:35:29 < qyx> *euro
2019-05-22T00:36:14 < qyx> 1.6mm will do fine probably, mechanically wise
2019-05-22T00:37:39 < qyx> this is the reason I was interested in your pci-e connector experience
2019-05-22T00:37:59  * karlp nods
2019-05-22T00:41:53 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/0cIbUp2.png
2019-05-22T00:42:38 < karlp> I wish I had serious mech skills
2019-05-22T00:42:58 < antto> Steffanx, Haohmaru == me
2019-05-22T00:43:04 < karlp> we know
2019-05-22T00:43:11 < Steffanx> I know antto 
2019-05-22T00:43:17 < Steffanx> The 2nd you
2019-05-22T00:43:37 < Steffanx> But I haven't seen him for a while
2019-05-22T00:44:02 < antto> such a big loss..
2019-05-22T00:44:08 < qyx> I have only non-serious
2019-05-22T00:44:10 < antto> muchos sadness
2019-05-22T00:44:31 < qyx> but all those extrusions are available
2019-05-22T00:44:41 < qyx> nvent schroff for example at distrelec
2019-05-22T00:44:58 < Rajko> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-21_23-44-55_TOJvRqFWZ.png what leds are these
2019-05-22T00:45:20 < Steffanx> Yeah I finally got used to his language antto 
2019-05-22T00:45:42 < qyx> bright and colorful ones
2019-05-22T00:46:06 < Rajko> they are 3535 "RGB" ones without own controller but they have some weird black cap on them ?
2019-05-22T00:46:30 < qyx> maybe they are used for led displays or what
2019-05-22T00:46:47 < antto> so you have mastered the lolcat/spoodrman language
2019-05-22T00:47:15 < qyx> spoderman is ded, isn't he?
2019-05-22T00:47:16 < Steffanx> 3535 smd black body is what Google thinks
2019-05-22T00:49:29 < antto> enuf chat 4 2dei
2019-05-22T00:50:17 < Cracki> if they're rgb, it might be a diffuser
2019-05-22T00:50:24 < Rajko> i want the diffuser
2019-05-22T00:50:27 < Rajko> i dont want phosphors tho
2019-05-22T00:50:39 < Cracki> for warm/cold white I'd have said it's phosphorus turning the single wavelength into a spectrum
2019-05-22T00:52:01 < Cracki> the rgbs I have have three sharp peaks. no matter how you combine them, they can't make proper white. some objects look just wrong because they aren't getting a proper spectrum of light
2019-05-22T00:52:23 < Rajko> yes thats because they are low CRI
2019-05-22T00:52:26 < Cracki> good enough for blinkenlights, not enough for illuminating things
2019-05-22T00:52:29 < Cracki> uh
2019-05-22T00:52:43 < Rajko> those narrow peaks are great for emissive displays though
2019-05-22T00:52:44 < Cracki> obviously, but also because they aren't supposed to combine to white
2019-05-22T00:53:25 < Rajko> http://www.allightled.com/smd-led/smd-rgb-display-led/smd-3535-tricolor-led.html it might be these
2019-05-22T00:54:06 < Cracki>  brightness will higher much
2019-05-22T00:54:13 < Rajko> if use epistar chip
2019-05-22T00:54:25 < Rajko> but not if use common chip
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2019-05-22T04:06:16 < dongs> Rajko: those are obviously just normal leds
2019-05-22T04:06:32 < Rajko> what mean normal
2019-05-22T04:07:51 < dongs> mean normal controller-less rgb led
2019-05-22T04:13:25 < Rajko> why the cap
2019-05-22T04:13:43 < Rajko> are there any pics of them turned on i cant find any
2019-05-22T04:14:59 < Rajko> ive found some white ones that have the phosphor in the cap
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2019-05-22T04:15:14 < englishman> what cap
2019-05-22T04:15:27 < Rajko> the weird rounded edge black bordered top
2019-05-22T04:15:45 < Rajko> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100pcs-smd-3535-led-rgb-PLCC6-3-IN-1-SMD-LED-Full-Color-LED-3535-RGB/32714547723.html
2019-05-22T04:16:18 < englishman> thats a led
2019-05-22T04:16:53 < mawk> he means the cap of the led
2019-05-22T04:16:55 < mawk> not capacitor
2019-05-22T04:16:57 < englishman> oh
2019-05-22T04:16:58 < englishman> lel
2019-05-22T04:17:05 < englishman> to make it pretty of course
2019-05-22T04:17:13 < englishman> they even give you the pinout
2019-05-22T04:17:32 < englishman> no common pin is kinda rare
2019-05-22T04:17:48 < Rajko> the 5050 version of these also has no common pin
2019-05-22T04:17:57 < Rajko> and theres a RGBW version that has 8 pins because of it
2019-05-22T04:18:10 < englishman> neato
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2019-05-22T04:26:31 < dongs> what d oyou mean "wh the cap"?
2019-05-22T04:26:32 < dongs> the black border?
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2019-05-22T04:27:02 < ndnihil> I heard that dongs guy punches kittens
2019-05-22T04:27:09 < dongs> sup dongs
2019-05-22T04:27:45 < dongs> Rajko: black border cuz its used in high pitch led displays
2019-05-22T04:27:58 < dongs> so when they're mounted they're all next to each other
2019-05-22T04:29:30 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/Mzaq7wW.png
2019-05-22T04:29:33 < dongs> ^ Rajko 
2019-05-22T04:51:41 < dongs> for fucks sake why is finding a fucking <= 24V in LDO with power good so fucking hard
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2019-05-22T04:53:38 < dongs> mouser doesn't even have 'features' filter
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2019-05-22T04:55:50 < bitmask> damnit, print has been going for 11.5 hours, 45 min left and its not gonna make it, about to run out of filament
2019-05-22T05:05:08 < dongs> onsemi is out. NCP5661 looked good but its same like the other shit, in adjustable version error flag pin becomes the ADJ pin
2019-05-22T05:05:11 < dongs> WHAT TEH FUCK
2019-05-22T05:09:53 < mawk> diode with 60µs turn on time is very bad no ?
2019-05-22T05:10:07 < mawk> if I use it to select between two power rails the stm32 will brown out
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2019-05-22T05:14:20 < dongs> nothing from ST
2019-05-22T05:16:55 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/WLABzCw.png
2019-05-22T05:18:32 < mawk> you can't pause and load filament later bitmask ?
2019-05-22T05:18:52 < mawk> like glue the new one to the end of the old one or something like this
2019-05-22T05:18:59 < mawk> so the machine doesn't notice
2019-05-22T05:19:08 < bitmask> yea I have a couple things I can try, no guarantees though
2019-05-22T05:19:25 < bitmask> pausing may cause a tiny layer shift if it has to rehome or something
2019-05-22T05:20:07 < bitmask> its so close I may finish, but I dont think its gonna, just staring at it for the next 25 min
2019-05-22T05:22:39 < dongs> https://www.monolithicpower.com/en/documentview/productdocument/index/doc_url/L01QMjAxNF9yMS4wMS5wZGY/prod_id/MjUz/ guys do you think i can use LM7805 adjustable voltage trick on this nigger to make it output > 3.3V if I buy fixed version
2019-05-22T05:23:24 < Rajko> doesnt it have 5V output version as well
2019-05-22T05:23:51 < dongs> i need 15V
2019-05-22T05:23:52 < dongs> not 5V
2019-05-22T05:24:16 < Rajko> how would you do the trick when theres no separate feedback pin
2019-05-22T05:24:40 < dongs> https://i.stack.imgur.com/jVqjx.png
2019-05-22T05:24:41 < dongs> like this
2019-05-22T05:25:12 < Rajko> so never giving it true ground
2019-05-22T05:25:14 < dongs> you put the main regulator ground to a second voltage divider
2019-05-22T05:25:14 < dongs> yes
2019-05-22T05:25:23 < Rajko> doesnt this only work with fixed output load
2019-05-22T05:25:32 < dongs> i dont know, 
2019-05-22T05:26:26 < englishman> why the shit are you ldo'ing 24->15v
2019-05-22T05:26:35 < dongs> i am ldo'ing 16V>15V
2019-05-22T05:26:44 < dongs> and i need to know when its overcurrent/shorted
2019-05-22T05:26:57 < dongs> welcome suggestions of doing it some better way
2019-05-22T05:27:10 < englishman> and you need it to be a 5c part available in mainland china today
2019-05-22T05:27:17 < dongs> yep exactly
2019-05-22T05:27:27 < englishman> series resistor and allegro current meter
2019-05-22T05:27:37 < dongs> nope
2019-05-22T05:27:38 < englishman> no wait thats like $10
2019-05-22T05:27:39 < dongs> i need digital out
2019-05-22T05:27:44 < englishman> stm8
2019-05-22T05:27:47 < dongs> haha
2019-05-22T05:28:17 < englishman> surely some 20v rated automotive crap?
2019-05-22T05:28:23 < englishman> in so8
2019-05-22T05:28:30 < dongs> LDO?
2019-05-22T05:28:32 < dongs> doens't exist.
2019-05-22T05:28:36 < dongs> have been searching since yesterday
2019-05-22T05:29:03 < englishman> how precise does the 15v have to be
2019-05-22T05:29:57 < dongs> DC15V（13.2V〜16.5V）
2019-05-22T05:30:06 < dongs> not very, but id rather not push it
2019-05-22T05:30:09 < englishman> so leave it at 16v and use a load switch
2019-05-22T05:30:16 < englishman> with overcurrent
2019-05-22T05:30:28 < englishman> like dps1133 but not that one obviously
2019-05-22T05:31:03 < englishman> should be plenty of usb-c 20v rated shit
2019-05-22T05:31:42 < englishman> 〜~
2019-05-22T05:31:45 < englishman> whoa a long tilde
2019-05-22T05:31:46 < dongs> Lol
2019-05-22T05:31:53 < dongs> yea its a jap one
2019-05-22T05:32:29 < englishman> series diode if current is not too big and you really want to drop 0.5v
2019-05-22T05:32:42 < englishman> but since you are looking for ldos diode would be fine
2019-05-22T05:32:51 < dongs> the problem isnt getting 15V, the problem is getting overcurrent/short shit
2019-05-22T05:32:55 < englishman> yes
2019-05-22T05:32:56 < dongs> i can adjust source to give me 15V as-is
2019-05-22T05:32:57 < englishman> load switch
2019-05-22T05:32:58 < englishman> forget ldo
2019-05-22T05:33:25 < englishman> i have a folder full of part numbers @ job
2019-05-22T05:33:36 < englishman> cuz i went through like 5 before choosing dps1144
2019-05-22T05:33:37 < englishman> 1133
2019-05-22T05:34:00 < englishman> due to dumb edge cases when ORing
2019-05-22T05:34:03 < englishman> which shouldnt matter for you
2019-05-22T05:34:25 < mawk> yes let's talk about ORing
2019-05-22T05:34:55 < mawk> I found MAX40200 as ideal diode for ORing but it has startup time 60µs, that's way too slow no ?
2019-05-22T05:35:31 < mawk> situation is Vbus goes down so ideal diode gets enabled
2019-05-22T05:35:42 < dongs> mawk, just use a fucking BAT54C or whatever lmao
2019-05-22T05:35:43 < dongs> wtf are you doing
2019-05-22T05:35:59 < mawk> for battery
2019-05-22T05:36:02 < dongs> yeah and?
2019-05-22T05:36:10 < dongs> what battery?
2019-05-22T05:36:17 < mawk> single li-ion cell
2019-05-22T05:36:21 < mawk> shouldn't I want the lowest forward voltage
2019-05-22T05:36:24 < dongs> and whyt do you ened a diode
2019-05-22T05:36:27 < dongs> at all
2019-05-22T05:36:32 < Rajko> use a pmos based switch
2019-05-22T05:36:46 < dongs> power stm from battery rail at all times, use a charger IC with power path or whatever
2019-05-22T05:36:47 < Rajko> or a dedicated battery detection chip
2019-05-22T05:37:13 < dongs> that max shit is literalyl a pmos anyway
2019-05-22T05:37:56 < dongs> > Automotive ECU Supply Rail Power Distribution
2019-05-22T05:37:58 < dongs> and Switching
2019-05-22T05:38:10 < dongs> > OPerating range: 2.5 to 6.5V
2019-05-22T05:38:12 < dongs> get the fuck out
2019-05-22T05:38:15 < mawk> lol
2019-05-22T05:39:26 < mawk> if it's just a pmos why does it want 60µs to turn on
2019-05-22T05:41:13 < englishman> >maxim
2019-05-22T05:41:58 < mawk> lol
2019-05-22T05:42:07 < mawk> the site design is nice 
2019-05-22T05:42:12 < mawk> so I thought it's a good brand
2019-05-22T05:45:20 < dongs> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps1h200a-q1.pdf not in china
2019-05-22T05:46:04 < mawk> they keep inventing new package names by ™ and stuff
2019-05-22T05:46:14 < mawk> DGN PowerPad™
2019-05-22T05:49:32 < Rajko> powerpad is the word that is tm
2019-05-22T05:49:45 < Rajko> "lol we heatsink into the middle largest pad how clever of us"
2019-05-22T05:50:02 < mawk> anyway I don't need a diode I think
2019-05-22T05:50:02 < Rajko> how most effectively heat other side of pcb with resistors on one side
2019-05-22T05:50:18 < mawk> 3.3V from usb goes through schottky, it'll always be lower than 3.3V from battery
2019-05-22T05:52:35 < dongs> 3.3V from usb?
2019-05-22T05:52:38 < Rajko> since the package on other side i am heating has a PowerPad(non tm)
2019-05-22T05:52:39 < dongs> what USB are you using
2019-05-22T05:52:45 < mawk> 5V from usb through voltage regulator
2019-05-22T05:52:48 < Rajko> best would be to try and heat the pad ?
2019-05-22T05:52:55 < mawk> so 3.3V
2019-05-22T05:54:46 < dongs> man COMEON
2019-05-22T05:54:53 < dongs> 'voltage - load' filter on digijew
2019-05-22T05:54:58 < dongs> is literally a match filter
2019-05-22T05:55:01 < dongs> not a fucking >= or <=
2019-05-22T05:55:15 < dongs> so there's a bunch of parts that are rated at like 2V-20V 3V->20V etc
2019-05-22T05:55:21 < dongs> i just need a fucking <= 20V or someshit
2019-05-22T05:55:36 < mawk> lol
2019-05-22T05:56:09 < dongs> same for features
2019-05-22T05:56:23 < dongs> checking something like 'fault output' will list 3 parts that ONLY have that feature
2019-05-22T05:56:30 < dongs> but doesn't include ones that have fault output, status flag
2019-05-22T05:57:54 < dongs> there's  SPI-controlled one from ST for $8
2019-05-22T05:57:55 < dongs> yea no
2019-05-22T05:58:20 < mawk> you should hire an intern that will look for parts
2019-05-22T06:11:57 < dongs> englishman: loool DPS1133 actaully comes up in a search during my shit
2019-05-22T06:12:18 < englishman> yes
2019-05-22T06:12:24 < englishman> good
2019-05-22T06:19:06 < dongs> BTS4300SGA
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2019-05-22T06:20:29 < dongs>  The device is monolithically integrated in Smart technology. 
2019-05-22T06:26:45 < dongs> what is "open load"
2019-05-22T06:26:55 < dongs> disconnected or something?
2019-05-22T06:37:49 < dongs> AOZ1360 but no status output lol
2019-05-22T06:38:26 < dongs> lets see wat else alphadongmega has tho
2019-05-22T06:40:01 < dongs> AOZ1363DI over kill, lol 6A
2019-05-22T06:41:55 < dongs> hehe all these parts look like they were made for usb-pd or something
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2019-05-22T06:46:10 < dongs>  A 100kΩ pull-up resistor must be connected between FLTB to 5V to provide a logic signal what if i want 3.3V
2019-05-22T06:46:15 < dongs> why would pull up voltage matter in opendrain
2019-05-22T06:48:30 < Rajko> to heat up the powerpad better, do i place the resistors so that their GND ends are at the powerpad (electrically connected) or so that their bodies are over it (not connected)
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2019-05-22T06:56:46 < dongs> http://www.prisemi.com/UploadImage/files/IC/Over%20Voltage%20Protection/P1465_0_6_2_20180402.pdf
2019-05-22T06:56:51 < dongs> wow this nigger is CHEAP
2019-05-22T06:56:52 < dongs> like 10c
2019-05-22T06:56:58 < dongs> if only it had fucking overload flag
2019-05-22T06:57:35 < dongs> gonna see wat other warez prisemi has
2019-05-22T06:59:56 < dongs> Wide Supply Voltage Range: 2.7V to 5.5V yea ok
2019-05-22T07:01:04 < dongs> WHOA
2019-05-22T07:01:15 < dongs> a fuck , another 5V only thing
2019-05-22T07:01:45 < dongs> http://www.joulwatt.com/en/proinfo_3501.html
2019-05-22T07:02:09 < dongs> mawk: they have some ideal diodes too
2019-05-22T07:02:38 < dongs> http://www.joulwatt.com/en/proinfo_3509.html ah just one thing nvm
2019-05-22T07:02:42 < dongs> and looks too complicated to use
2019-05-22T07:05:08 < dongs> http://www.anpec.com.tw/ashx_prod_file.ashx?prod_id=506&file_path=20151130154802467.pdf&original_name=APL3546.pdf
2019-05-22T07:05:11 < dongs> another one with no status flag
2019-05-22T07:05:12 < dongs> niggers.
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2019-05-22T07:06:41 < dongs> http://www.anpec.com.tw/ashx_prod_file.ashx?prod_id=774&file_path=20180828100740865.pdf&original_name=APL3548.pdf "POK"
2019-05-22T07:08:43 < mawk> open load is disconnected yes
2019-05-22T07:08:56 < mawk> floating output
2019-05-22T07:14:20 < dongs> forgot about www.analog.com.tw
2019-05-22T07:14:23 < dongs> but they odnt have anythign good either
2019-05-22T07:14:25 < dongs> all fucking 5.5V max shit
2019-05-22T07:15:19 < dongs> ooh i think i found it
2019-05-22T07:15:33 < dongs> BSP752R 
2019-05-22T07:15:35 < dongs> shit's all over china
2019-05-22T07:16:05 < dongs> hmm oops minimum load current 1.3A
2019-05-22T07:17:16 < dongs> i think i will go with the infinieon shit, the BTS43xx stuff seems to be fairly common in china and a few versions avialble
2019-05-22T07:17:26 < dongs> and htey're all pin compatible
2019-05-22T07:18:34 < dongs> VN5160S-E hmm neat
2019-05-22T07:18:44 < dongs> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/vn5160s-e.pdf
2019-05-22T07:19:15 < dongs> wait is that almost pin compatible to infineon
2019-05-22T07:19:45 < dongs> ah no left side is fucked
2019-05-22T07:19:57 < dongs> actaully no its all fucked
2019-05-22T07:19:57 < dongs>  k
2019-05-22T07:21:32 < mawk> my schematic is getting complex with all the different power kinds
2019-05-22T07:21:42 < mawk> I'll maybe just put solder bridges and not diodes
2019-05-22T07:21:44 < dongs> what lunix shit are you making
2019-05-22T07:21:51 < mawk> I do it on pape
2019-05-22T07:21:52 < mawk> r
2019-05-22T07:22:25 < Rajko> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-22_06-22-23_4lo0PQeUi.png what did i mess up already
2019-05-22T07:22:32 < mawk> I'm doing a board to go in my hot air station instead of the bugged ic they put in it
2019-05-22T07:22:57 < mawk> then I'll have 4 other identical pcb that I want to be useful too since I'm poor
2019-05-22T07:24:38 < dongs> why ahalf your parts have no silk outlines and retarded courtyard shit
2019-05-22T07:24:51 < Rajko> only 0402 have silk outline
2019-05-22T07:24:52 < dongs> also different widths for outlines and shit
2019-05-22T07:24:55 < dongs> fix your fucking library newb
2019-05-22T07:25:44 < Rajko> 0603 and larger have silk outline inside of them
2019-05-22T07:26:19 < dongs> but you're fired for using U1 as refdes
2019-05-22T07:26:22 < dongs> IC* or fuck off
2019-05-22T07:26:26 < Rajko> n
2019-05-22T07:26:29 < dongs> y
2019-05-22T07:26:42 < dongs> U* = jewish kikecad trash
2019-05-22T07:26:48 < Rajko> who the hell uses IC
2019-05-22T07:26:50 < Rajko> its always been U
2019-05-22T07:26:54 < dongs> literally everyone
2019-05-22T07:27:03 < Rajko> n
2019-05-22T07:32:15 < mawk> ST uses U
2019-05-22T07:42:00 < Rajko> I C U
2019-05-22T07:44:19 < dongs> https://www.st.com/en/automotive-analog-and-power/vn5160s-e.html hmm this one is most availabvle in china 
2019-05-22T07:44:22 < dongs> even more than inf
2019-05-22T07:44:43 < dongs> ah but it doesnt ahve programmable current limit
2019-05-22T07:44:51 < dongs> i dont want to limit shit to 5A, my trash will burn before that
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2019-05-22T08:13:07 < Rajko> is it easy to get IR shielding glass in bulk or am i gonna have to salvage them from old webcam
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2019-05-22T10:56:54 < Thorn> how do I protect a li-ion (and the circuit) from reverse polarity? the device contains both charger and load, the li-ion is 18650 and so can be inserted the wrong way into a holder
2019-05-22T11:04:07 < kiki_lamb> Thorn: probably ask in ##electronics, and the answer is probably 'use an appropriately specced diode'.
2019-05-22T11:04:46 < Thorn> diode as a crowbar + a polyfuse?
2019-05-22T11:05:08 < Thorn> a series diode won't let it charge (or discharge)
2019-05-22T11:05:52 < qyx> aren't there ICs for such thing?
2019-05-22T11:07:43 < Thorn> I've been shown a blown up fs8502a today
2019-05-22T11:08:03 < Thorn> resulted from a reverse battery connection
2019-05-22T11:08:13 < Thorn> not sure if the dw01 is alive or what
2019-05-22T11:08:33 < Thorn> (and the rest of the circuit too)
2019-05-22T11:11:33 < qyx> this looks nice http://blog.deconinck.info/post/2017/12/22/18650-Battery-charger-reverse-polarity-protection
2019-05-22T11:13:04 < Thorn> will it let the battery discharge though?
2019-05-22T11:14:07 < qyx> hm, ok, I haven't checked
2019-05-22T11:14:36 < Thorn> the article says "charger" and my devices aren't just chargers
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2019-05-22T11:49:11 < dongs> < kiki_lamb> Thorn: probably ask in ##electronics 
2019-05-22T11:49:16 < dongs> haha best joke of the week
2019-05-22T11:49:23 < dongs> #stonertronics is full of retards
2019-05-22T11:53:53 < kakimir> is it your channel dongs?
2019-05-22T11:54:19 < kakimir> channel of your company?
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2019-05-22T13:38:27 < karlp> why do you need adjustable version of your reg dongs?
2019-05-22T13:49:32 < dongs> karlp: i don't, i found the solution using that infineon thing
2019-05-22T13:49:39 < dongs> adjustable = so i can make it output 15V
2019-05-22T13:49:48 < dongs> '
2019-05-22T13:59:37 < karlp> it sounded like youre reuqirements were getting pretty hard at the end, you wanted adjustable voltage threshold, adjustable current limit, power good output, 24V input, cheap and avaliable in china
2019-05-22T14:02:11 < dongs> nah, iw as looking for a hack solution
2019-05-22T14:02:22 < dongs> all i want is 15V/400mA current limited output wiht a flag when its shorted/ovc
2019-05-22T14:02:38 < dongs> my original plan was to use a LDO going from 16V to 15V with overcurrent out flag.
2019-05-22T14:02:44 < karlp> file a bug titled, "er, is there a version without memory leaks?" "sorry to ask such a rude question, but we're using a version that's 4years old and...."
2019-05-22T14:02:45 < dongs> but then i found AOZ and inf parts.
2019-05-22T14:11:20 < dongs> BTS4300SGA specifically
2019-05-22T14:11:26 < dongs> but AOZ1361DI works too
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2019-05-22T15:17:12 < Steffanx> Wlcm
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2019-05-22T15:21:13 < Thorn> TIL: if you have volatile Foo foo; you can only call methods of Foo that are marked volatile (same as const)
2019-05-22T15:21:16 < Thorn> wtf why
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2019-05-22T16:14:41 < englishman> dongs: you're welcome
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2019-05-22T16:23:12 < zyp> Thorn, because const and volatile are the same kind of qualifiers
2019-05-22T16:23:39 < zyp> and it's obvious why it's the case for const
2019-05-22T16:23:58 < Thorn> yes, e.g. operator[] vs operator[] const
2019-05-22T16:24:07 < Thorn> but why do the same with volatile?
2019-05-22T16:24:23 < zyp> consistency would be the first argument
2019-05-22T16:24:38 < Thorn> I wanted to declare my inplace_function variable volatile and the compiler told me to GTFO
2019-05-22T16:24:42 < zyp> secondly, it makes total sense
2019-05-22T16:25:01 < Cracki> the struct/class might need to use particular code to handle the volatile case
2019-05-22T16:25:02 < zyp> imagine you have a method that does a RMW operation on a private variable
2019-05-22T16:25:10 < Thorn> so I actually opened an issue https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14/issues/162
2019-05-22T16:25:52 < zyp> when you call that method on a volatile object, it may violate the volatile constraints since it's not accounting for the object being volatile
2019-05-22T16:26:07 < Cracki> the compiler _could_ implicitly generate the code under the assumption that all access to members is volatile...
2019-05-22T16:26:28 < zyp> not if the method is implemented in a different translation unit
2019-05-22T16:26:36 < Cracki> good point
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2019-05-22T16:26:47 < zyp> when building the method, the compiler knows nothing of whether the instance would be volatile or not
2019-05-22T16:27:24 < Cracki> so that's the problem
2019-05-22T16:27:46 < Cracki> could they fix that with their attempt to lift includes and object files to "modules"?
2019-05-22T16:28:02 < zyp> it's not something to be fixed, it works as is
2019-05-22T16:28:12 < zyp> same way as const
2019-05-22T16:28:15 < Cracki> then let's say "improved"
2019-05-22T16:28:57 < zyp> if you're writing a method that should be callable on a const object, you give it the const qualifier
2019-05-22T16:29:12 < zyp> nobody argues the language should work otherwise, right?
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2019-05-22T16:29:30 < zyp> what makes it the right solution for const but the wrong for volatile?
2019-05-22T16:30:54 < zyp> IMO if you're declaring a volatile object and want to call methods on it, you're doing something weird and uncommon, and should put the volatile classifier on those methods to show that it's actually intended to work that way
2019-05-22T16:31:04 < Cracki> you misunderstand me
2019-05-22T16:31:16 < Cracki> given that, you're arguing against the wrong thing
2019-05-22T16:31:28 < Thorn> is there any case when you would want a volatile overload with different (source) code in it than the non-volatile overload?
2019-05-22T16:31:33 < Cracki> ^
2019-05-22T16:31:38 < Cracki> that's the crucial point
2019-05-22T16:31:56 < zyp> I can imagine that, yes
2019-05-22T16:32:16 < zyp> e.g. if it's volatile because it's shared between threads, maybe you wanna have locking in the volatile overload
2019-05-22T16:32:33 < Thorn> or maybe adding something like 'also_volatile' to make the compiler generate 2 versions of a method would be enough?
2019-05-22T16:32:45 < Cracki> if the object uses locks, you don't really need to declare it volatile
2019-05-22T16:32:59 < Cracki> nobody ever declared objects volatile because they use locks internally
2019-05-22T16:33:37 < zyp> s/locking/extra synchronizing/
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2019-05-22T16:42:25 < Cracki> this explains the mechanism: "this" for that method becomes const/volatile qualified https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/member_functions#const-.2C_volatile-.2C_and_ref-qualified_member_functions
2019-05-22T16:42:52 < Cracki> that means every access to the object (through "this") is implicitly const/volatile
2019-05-22T16:43:39 < Cracki> that also means the compiler prevents you from writing code in a const method that (trivially) changes the object. it's not just a _promise_ to the outside that this method won't change the object.
2019-05-22T16:47:14 < Cracki> til: "mutable" https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/cv
2019-05-22T17:00:46 < mawk> yes for lambdas
2019-05-22T17:01:01 < mawk> otherwise you can't modify captured variables even if by-copy
2019-05-22T17:01:04 < mawk> which is strange
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2019-05-22T17:05:48 < mawk> ah it's for members here ok
2019-05-22T17:06:11 < mawk> I don't get it «   mutable const int* p;         // OK », const int* isn't const
2019-05-22T17:06:15 < mawk> you can already modify it
2019-05-22T17:07:19 < mawk> for doc and optimizer ?
2019-05-22T17:15:53 < Cracki> no clue
2019-05-22T17:16:05 < Cracki> looks to me like mutable cancels const
2019-05-22T17:16:26 < Cracki> but if you have something * const foo, the value itself is const, and any mutable before the * can't affect that anymore
2019-05-22T17:16:44 < Cracki> or am I reading my pointers backwards-backwards again
2019-05-22T17:19:48 < mawk> const int * means int is const
2019-05-22T17:19:51 < mawk> but pointer itself isn't const
2019-05-22T17:19:59 < mawk> you see that when you do using T = const int; T *
2019-05-22T17:20:05 < mawk> T * isn't const qualified
2019-05-22T17:20:17 < Cracki> yes, reading right to left, pointer to an int that is const
2019-05-22T17:20:36 < Cracki> so their examples are wrong?
2019-05-22T17:20:48 < mawk> the examples are right
2019-05-22T17:20:50 < mawk> they compile
2019-05-22T17:20:53 < Cracki> cppreference is not rarely a little cryptic
2019-05-22T17:20:56 < mawk> it's maybe for documentation purpose
2019-05-22T17:21:04 < mawk> or synchronization or whatever
2019-05-22T17:21:50 < Cracki> either "mutable" falls outside of the type naming scheme, so it reads "mutable (...) identifier" or I don't know
2019-05-22T17:21:59 < Cracki> here's what IBM says about it https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.3.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r3.cbclx01/mutable_storage_class_specifier.htm
2019-05-22T17:22:15 < mawk> it's a type qualifier yes, but it reads like you said
2019-05-22T17:22:19 < mawk> mutable (...) name
2019-05-22T17:22:25 < Cracki> according to them, "mutable const" should be illegal
2019-05-22T17:22:33 < mawk> yeah like the doc says
2019-05-22T17:22:36 < mawk>   mutable int* const q;         // ill-formed
2019-05-22T17:22:39 < Cracki> ah, so "mutable (... const) foo" is illegal
2019-05-22T17:22:47 < Cracki> booooyyyy
2019-05-22T17:22:55 < mawk> mutable (...) foo const is illegal yes
2019-05-22T17:23:09 < mawk> which can be rewrited mutable const foo in the absence of (...)
2019-05-22T17:23:16 < Cracki> because the variable itself is const, and mutable can't cancel that
2019-05-22T17:23:22 < Cracki> so... eh fuck it
2019-05-22T17:23:31 < mawk> yes
2019-05-22T17:25:03 < mawk> but const int * isn't const, there is nothing to cancel so it must be for something else
2019-05-22T17:25:10 < Cracki> >If you want to suggest a change, please leave a message on the suggestions page for new users instead
2019-05-22T17:25:12 < mawk> for doc purposes surely
2019-05-22T17:25:26 < Cracki> the mutable applies when the whole object was const
2019-05-22T17:25:42 < Cracki> class A {...}; const A a;
2019-05-22T17:25:49 < mawk> ah !
2019-05-22T17:25:52 < mawk> indeed
2019-05-22T17:25:57 < Cracki> then a method's "this" is CONST
2019-05-22T17:26:02 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-22T17:26:12 < Cracki> but mutable members can still be touched... but the ibm example shows modification from the outside
2019-05-22T17:26:24 < mawk> yeah if they're public it's fine I guess
2019-05-22T17:26:31 < Cracki> that and mutable
2019-05-22T17:27:02 < Cracki> methods run against the same constness (but get to see private members too)
2019-05-22T17:31:07 < aandrew> what's that saying... C++: where your friends can access your privates
2019-05-22T17:33:15 < mawk> lol
2019-05-22T17:35:30 < Thorn> psst want some c++? https://github.com/Naios/function2/blob/master/include/function2/function2.hpp
2019-05-22T17:35:37 < Thorn> 1200 LOC
2019-05-22T17:35:49 < Thorn> for a callable wrapper...
2019-05-22T17:37:32 < dongs> macros? in my C++? lmao
2019-05-22T17:37:36 < dongs> disgusting as fuck
2019-05-22T17:37:58 < dongs> https://github.com/Naios/function2/blob/master/include/function2/function2.hpp#L648 holy shit fuck off
2019-05-22T17:38:05 < dongs> #how to write non-debuggable code
2019-05-22T17:38:20 < dongs> which GNU/debugger will step through this? ha ha, right none
2019-05-22T17:39:03 < Thorn> it's templates, nothing to step through
2019-05-22T17:39:21 < Thorn> there is something called "metaprogramming shell"
2019-05-22T17:39:31 < Thorn> not sure if / how well it works
2019-05-22T17:40:37 < Thorn> yeah >1200 LOC. actually 1619
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2019-05-22T17:59:34 < Cracki> hell
2019-05-22T17:59:42 < Cracki> 's hell*
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2019-05-22T18:37:14 < mawk> if I set myself as SPI slave with 2 input channels I can snoop on both sides of a SPI master and slave right ?
2019-05-22T18:37:19 < mawk> I read MISO and MOSI
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2019-05-22T18:45:11 < smvoss> Hey everyone! I'm having issues receiving SPI on an STM32F2 (nucleo kit)
2019-05-22T18:45:47 < smvoss> The sender is a PIC, and using a logic analyzer the data looks good and I can't find anything that might hint to a problem
2019-05-22T18:46:31 < smvoss> I've setup my STM to be in slave mode, with receive only and no NSS (it's the only other thing on the SPI bus)
2019-05-22T18:47:15 < smvoss> The code seems to do everything correctly, but when checking in the HAL_SPI_Receive function the data pulled from &hspi->Instance->DR is always wrong
2019-05-22T18:48:00 < smvoss> https://i.imgur.com/ncyzLMT.png
2019-05-22T18:48:05 < smvoss> here is a snippet of my setup code
2019-05-22T18:48:08 < mawk> you setup SPI mode right ?
2019-05-22T18:48:13 < mawk> you have many different possible modes
2019-05-22T18:48:17 < smvoss> yep :) knew that was gonna be the first question
2019-05-22T18:48:32 < smvoss> I verified that the spi mode is the same as both the logic analyzer's settings and the PIC
2019-05-22T18:48:58 < smvoss> the logic analyzer (a saleae pod) decodes it all as expected
2019-05-22T18:49:10 < smvoss> and no pin collisions on the devkit
2019-05-22T18:49:38 < smvoss> using CPOL = 0, CPHA =0
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2019-05-22T18:54:16 < qyx> smvoss: so you are using only SCK and MISO pins?
2019-05-22T18:55:08 < smvoss> qyx: MOSI, STM acting as slave
2019-05-22T18:55:12 < smvoss> qyx: but yep
2019-05-22T18:56:12 < qyx> how do you handle byte framing?
2019-05-22T18:57:15 < qyx> ie. when using CS/NSS the slave knows when the byte starts because deasserting CS clears the RX shift register
2019-05-22T18:58:31 < qyx> your slave may have lost a single bit/clock and all your subsequent bytes are wrong
2019-05-22T18:59:00 < qyx> unless you implement that functionality somehow
2019-05-22T18:59:07 < qyx> isn't your data shifted?
2019-05-22T18:59:18 < smvoss> It could very well be shifted
2019-05-22T18:59:25 < smvoss> it all looks like garbage but that could be it
2019-05-22T18:59:31 < smvoss> just off-by-some-bits
2019-05-22T19:00:02 < smvoss> I was under the impression that you could get away with no CS line when it was a 1 master: 1 slave pairing, but my googling didn't show any "framing" issues doing that
2019-05-22T19:00:07 < smvoss> it makes total sense that it'd have an issue though
2019-05-22T19:00:21 < smvoss> let me get the guy who wrote the PIC code to throw a CS into the mix, hopefully that "just fixes it"
2019-05-22T19:00:39 < qyx> check if it is the case first
2019-05-22T19:01:06 < qyx> but even if it wasn't I would not use SPI the way you are using it
2019-05-22T19:01:09 < qyx> because of this
2019-05-22T19:01:25 < smvoss> yeah I agree, the hardware guy came up with this setup to save pins
2019-05-22T19:01:31 < smvoss> and I was tryin to make it work
2019-05-22T19:01:43 < qyx> sometimes SPI in RX mode without CS makes sense, for example you can use it to receive PDM data from microphone
2019-05-22T19:01:48 < smvoss> I think its not worth the effort/reliability 
2019-05-22T19:01:58 < smvoss> yeah, I'm startin to agree
2019-05-22T19:02:06 < qyx> but in this case you actually don't need your bits to be properly aligned to byte boundaries
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2019-05-22T19:43:21 < kakimir> text says 4104
2019-05-22T19:43:34 < kakimir> and then: Program Memory Usage :4088 bytes   99,8 % Full
2019-05-22T19:43:40 < kakimir> how?
2019-05-22T19:44:05 < kakimir> isn't text the exact byte amount that goes into flash?
2019-05-22T19:46:51 < mawk> no
2019-05-22T19:47:03 < mawk> .text .rodata
2019-05-22T19:47:06 < mawk> goes into flash
2019-05-22T19:47:26 < mawk> .data .bss goes into RAM
2019-05-22T19:48:48 < kakimir> so text includes rodata that goes into flash?
2019-05-22T19:49:40 < mawk> no, flash is comprised of .text and .rodata
2019-05-22T19:49:44 < mawk> and probably some other minor stuff
2019-05-22T19:50:20 < mawk> .text is your code, .rodata is the const globals and static variables
2019-05-22T19:50:35 < mawk> everything that can be modified goes into RAM
2019-05-22T19:51:04 < kakimir> why: Program Memory Usage :4088 bytes   99,8 % Full
2019-05-22T19:51:07 < mawk> but before relocating stuff to RAM everything is in flash anyway
2019-05-22T19:51:17 < aandrew> hm
2019-05-22T19:51:20 < mawk> everything except .bss which never takes size in the executable
2019-05-22T19:51:21 < kakimir> it says less than text
2019-05-22T19:51:31 < boddax> wich protocol uses external eeprom 1 or 2 k 24xx ?
2019-05-22T19:51:45 < mawk> it means RAM then kakimir I guess
2019-05-22T19:51:52 < aandrew> I have an LDO, the output I am feeding through an R-C-R to try to kill some 2MHz noise
2019-05-22T19:52:39 < mawk> you have 4K SRAM on that core kakimir right ?
2019-05-22T19:52:46 < aandrew> maybe I should redo the topology so it's C-L-C instead
2019-05-22T19:54:24 < kakimir> mawk: definitelly no 4k ram here
2019-05-22T19:54:26 < kakimir> 512
2019-05-22T19:54:32 < kakimir> sorry.. 256
2019-05-22T19:54:42 < mawk> something is fishy then
2019-05-22T19:54:50 < kakimir> fuufuu
2019-05-22T19:54:52 < mawk> what is "program memory"
2019-05-22T19:55:10 < kakimir> flash
2019-05-22T19:55:21 < mawk> yeah then it must be at the very least >= .text
2019-05-22T19:55:24 < mawk> not <
2019-05-22T19:55:36 < kakimir> it's a nightmare
2019-05-22T19:55:51 < mawk> everything goes into flash except .bss, then .data is copied over to SRAM in the init routine
2019-05-22T19:56:01 < mawk> and .bss is zeroed out
2019-05-22T19:56:16 < kakimir> device seems to be working
2019-05-22T19:56:26 < mawk> you found a bug in your ide plugin
2019-05-22T19:57:03 < kakimir> it's atmel studio
2019-05-22T19:57:36 < Steffanx> Atmel studio -_-
2019-05-22T19:57:47 < Steffanx> Do you use atmel start?
2019-05-22T19:58:04 < kakimir> sometimes
2019-05-22T20:13:04 < kakimir> is there any explanation that would make this make sense?
2019-05-22T20:13:30 < kakimir> some kind of packing and shiet
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2019-05-22T20:16:07 < kakimir> or is it that thing counts wrong and my device has only partial image?
2019-05-22T20:16:13 < kakimir> and no errors are raised
2019-05-22T20:16:24 < kakimir> what is "omit all symbol information" ?
2019-05-22T20:18:13 < kakimir> does nothing to size
2019-05-22T20:21:02 < mawk> it's for the .elf
2019-05-22T20:21:09 < mawk> doesn't matter for your micro
2019-05-22T20:21:17 < mawk> it's for use with gdb
2019-05-22T20:21:47 < mawk> and for use by evil pirates that want to steal your juicy IP by analyzing binaries
2019-05-22T20:22:02 < kakimir> I just
2019-05-22T20:22:10 < kakimir> want to know wtf
2019-05-22T20:22:17 < kakimir> and nobody knows
2019-05-22T20:22:23 < mawk> you have a screenshot ?
2019-05-22T20:22:40 < kakimir> what use does it have?
2019-05-22T20:23:05 < mawk> to see the numbers you're talking about
2019-05-22T20:23:19 < mawk> and see the general vocabulary they use
2019-05-22T20:23:23 < mawk> if there might be a hint
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2019-05-22T20:28:35 < kakimir> https://paste.debian.net/hidden/e33f2bfc/
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2019-05-22T20:35:38 < mawk> yes that's odd
2019-05-22T20:35:46 < mawk> they precisely say "data memory usage" under it
2019-05-22T20:35:56 < mawk> .text is precisely the "program memory usage"
2019-05-22T20:36:18 < mawk> so you must have perfect match between them, up to the alignment
2019-05-22T20:36:24 < bitmask> hmm
2019-05-22T20:36:26 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/zgqtCVc.png
2019-05-22T20:36:35 < bitmask> attempting an empty spool storage solution, I dont like whats out there
2019-05-22T20:36:42 < bitmask> this might be a waste of time though
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2019-05-22T20:39:02 < kakimir> mawk: tex + data needs to be under 4096?
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2019-05-22T20:41:11 < kakimir> this is a tight one
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2019-05-22T20:46:33 < kakimir> is rodata included in data?
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2019-05-22T20:52:23 < jpa-> no, rodata usually goes into flash so .text
2019-05-22T20:53:17 < jpa-> (most linker scripts would keep them separate, but you could combine it with .text on STM32 because it has no NX bit in use)
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2019-05-22T20:55:07 < kakimir> text 4082 should do it
2019-05-22T20:55:31 < kakimir> dec: 4115
2019-05-22T20:59:36 < kakimir> it started to work again normally
2019-05-22T21:00:07 < kakimir> fucking amateurs doing size calculators
2019-05-22T21:02:08 < kakimir> especially what is used with 8bit avrs
2019-05-22T21:07:08 < kakimir> fucking unbelievable
2019-05-22T21:10:42 < mawk> no kakimir why ?
2019-05-22T21:10:53 < mawk> no need to be under anything
2019-05-22T21:11:24 < mawk> maybe alignment need like on pc you need to pad up to multiple of 4k after some sections
2019-05-22T21:11:30 < mawk> but nothing like that on micros
2019-05-22T21:13:00 < mawk> rodata is static non moving while data must be relocated to RAM later
2019-05-22T21:13:18 < mawk> but everyone goes to flash in the flat binary before loading anyway
2019-05-22T21:15:09 < kakimir> it just needs to fit in flash
2019-05-22T21:15:24 < mawk> yes
2019-05-22T21:15:31 < mawk> whole executable needs to fit in flash
2019-05-22T21:15:37 < mawk> except .bss section
2019-05-22T21:16:00 < mawk> so instead of including jumptables or whatever if you generate them at runtime you gain flash size
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2019-05-22T22:03:35 < smvoss> hmm, I'm not seeing how the cube code is handling the CS, I have it set to Hard NSS, and I see the spi setup code saying that
2019-05-22T22:03:45 < smvoss> but nothing mapping the assigned pin to the code?
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2019-05-22T22:04:19 < smvoss> Unless it can only be on PA4 for SPI1, but in that case I'm not sure why it isn't "just working" then
2019-05-22T22:04:36 < smvoss> stuck in a tight loop of `if(__HAL_SPI_GET_FLAG(hspi, SPI_FLAG_RXNE))`
2019-05-22T22:30:09 < mawk> NSS pin is fixed yes
2019-05-22T22:30:12 < mawk> check in your datasheet
2019-05-22T22:30:21 < mawk> but it should be set into AF mode I guess
2019-05-22T22:30:25 < mawk> with appropriate pullup
2019-05-22T22:31:02 < mawk> cube should do it
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--- Day changed Thu May 23 2019
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2019-05-23T00:12:07 < f3r70rr35f> :q
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2019-05-23T00:17:36 < jly> okay
2019-05-23T00:24:48 < Steffanx> Is it okay? Do you know?
2019-05-23T00:40:58 < upgrdman> is there a windows tool like wireshark but to monitor a USB UART?
2019-05-23T00:42:12 < Cracki> uh, I think wireshark on windows can sniff usb... maybe it can decode the usb traffic of a usb uart too
2019-05-23T00:43:18 < Cracki> if I had the need, I'd try serialmon.com first. no idea how it works but looks usable
2019-05-23T00:43:58 < Cracki> apparently it uses the whole port to listen in on communication on another cable
2019-05-23T00:44:16 < Cracki> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/portmon
2019-05-23T00:44:24 < Cracki> I trust sysinternals
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2019-05-23T00:48:52 < Cracki> (might require win2k!)
2019-05-23T00:54:03 < Cracki> ooh this works http://sudt.com/en/ap/download.htm
2019-05-23T00:58:06 < rajkosto> https://shop.allnetchina.cn/products/rock-pi-4-model-b-board-only-with-dualband-2-4-5ghz-wlan-bluetooth-5-0 alternative to jetson nano
2019-05-23T00:59:47 < Cracki> here's someone who settled on "Device Monitoring Studio", which has a trial, so it's not exactly free
2019-05-23T01:03:32 < qyx> monitor usb uart?
2019-05-23T01:03:52 < qyx> what does it mean? to see the incomming/outgoing rtaffic?
2019-05-23T01:04:37 < zyp> probably as in put together the serial stream, like how it can put together TCP streams
2019-05-23T01:04:45 < zyp> although I believe it can't
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2019-05-23T02:14:28  * catphish wonders if his package is big enough
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2019-05-23T03:21:27 < mawk> I soldered a micro usb connector
2019-05-23T03:21:32 < mawk> paste is lame after all
2019-05-23T03:21:47 < mawk> tinning the pads, heating with hot air then placing component is the best way
2019-05-23T03:22:04 < Ultrasauce> dragging an iron works fine too
2019-05-23T03:23:12 < mawk> then wicking you mean ?
2019-05-23T03:23:23 < mawk> if there are bridges
2019-05-23T03:23:43 < Ultrasauce> or just reflowing one of the pads
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2019-05-23T03:23:58 < Ultrasauce> bridging would indicate theres not enough flux in play
2019-05-23T03:24:38 < mawk> even for qfn I'll try with tinning
2019-05-23T03:25:45 < mawk> with paste without a pneumatic device I put a bunch, and then I don't see anymore where to put the chip
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2019-05-23T03:29:14 < englishman> zyp: charged at 150kW today
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2019-05-23T03:46:40 < dongs> at 200V?
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2019-05-23T04:10:09 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PGjTt4xkWM a u t i s m
2019-05-23T04:12:22 < aandrew> hm, interesting
2019-05-23T04:13:14 < aandrew> if a supply has 10mV of ripple on it at 2MHz, and a component (say an opamp feeding an ADC) has a PSRR of 40dB at 2MHz, that will put 100uV of the supply noise on the signal
2019-05-23T04:13:34 < aandrew> a 16-bit ADC with 4.096V Vref will see a couple counts of that noise
2019-05-23T04:14:08 < aandrew> what's interesting is the opamps I'm working with have pretty decent PSRR, just not on the negative rail
2019-05-23T04:14:21 < aandrew> 80-90dB on the positive at 2MHz but barely 40 on the negative
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2019-05-23T05:41:07 < datasoop> hello, anyone with knowledge of freeRTOS available?
2019-05-23T05:46:42 < dongs> well
2019-05-23T05:47:43 < datasoop> just a LED blinking issue :D
2019-05-23T05:48:20 < Cracki> you need to start talking
2019-05-23T05:48:36 < datasoop> ok, i'll post the code
2019-05-23T05:48:42 < Cracki> you aren't gonna get people, you are gonna get opinions
2019-05-23T05:48:47 < rajkosto> my single pixel display is glow https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-23_04-48-43_EIHqcc8Ay.jpg
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2019-05-23T05:50:54 < datasoop> the led doesn't blink with this code, but when it does with the function toggle, https://pastebin.com/VqRCgLVp
2019-05-23T05:52:39 < Cracki> so... what
2019-05-23T05:52:47 < dongs> ya wat is this shit
2019-05-23T05:52:49 < Cracki> you want one thread to set the pin, another to reset it?
2019-05-23T05:52:50 < dongs> isnt this some cube autogenerated trash
2019-05-23T05:52:55 < Cracki> it's def cube
2019-05-23T05:53:50 < Cracki> what you get is that both tasks start at nearly the same time
2019-05-23T05:54:06 < datasoop> yes just a blinking example that didn't work
2019-05-23T05:54:13 < dongs> move osDelay on the turnoff task in front of gpio reset
2019-05-23T05:54:16 < Cracki> and they'll run almost deterministically
2019-05-23T05:54:24 < dongs> so they're pingponging
2019-05-23T05:54:25 < dongs> o whatever
2019-05-23T05:54:33 < Cracki> they need to be out of phase at least
2019-05-23T05:54:35 < dongs> but anyway that is retarded because you should just have a task for blinking only
2019-05-23T05:54:42 < Cracki> so a delay of 250 in one task before loop
2019-05-23T05:54:46 < Cracki> aye
2019-05-23T05:54:54 < Cracki> if toggle doesn't work, fix that, not reinvent it
2019-05-23T05:55:11 < Cracki> you need to rephrase this sentence "the led doesn't blink with this code, but when it does with the function toggle"
2019-05-23T05:55:23 < dongs> actaully it prolly does blink if you hookup a scope
2019-05-23T05:55:31 < dongs> for like 1-2 CPU cycles
2019-05-23T05:55:32 < Cracki> yeah probably
2019-05-23T05:55:47 < rajkosto> why would you use 2 threads to control the same peripheral
2019-05-23T05:55:51 < rajkosto> 0 benefit
2019-05-23T05:57:19 < datasoop> @rajkosto i just start learning an experimenting 
2019-05-23T05:57:25 < datasoop> s/an/and
2019-05-23T05:57:46 < Cracki> again, does Toggle (and just toggle!) work or doesn't it
2019-05-23T05:58:13 < datasoop> it does work
2019-05-23T05:58:18 < Cracki> and what's that delay(1) doing there, you aren't gonna see a 1+1 ms flickering
2019-05-23T05:58:19 < Cracki> good
2019-05-23T05:58:23 < Cracki> and the question was?
2019-05-23T05:58:38 < datasoop> @Cracki just cube generated thing 
2019-05-23T05:59:46 < datasoop> @Cracki this code dosn't toggle the LED, but when i use the function "HAL_GPIO_TogglePin" it works fine, i'm seeking to know where is the problem 
2019-05-23T05:59:54 < Cracki> good
2019-05-23T06:00:02 < dongs> datasoop: what, you were already told the reason and what to do to fix it
2019-05-23T06:00:03 < Cracki> put a delay(250) before the loop of _one_ task
2019-05-23T06:00:06 < dongs> why havent you done it yet
2019-05-23T06:00:25 < datasoop> @dongs i'm on it
2019-05-23T06:01:32 < Cracki> it's like when you slap someone with both hands. either the heat flops back and forth, or you hit both ears at once and he'll instead get irreparable damage
2019-05-23T06:04:00 < rajkosto> IRREPARABLE ???
2019-05-23T06:06:10 < datasoop> thanks guys, it work fine now after adding osDelay(250) in the last task.
2019-05-23T06:06:34 < rajkosto> wont work for long
2019-05-23T06:06:43 < rajkosto> your code depends on the startup and scheduling time of the 2 tasks
2019-05-23T06:09:41 < datasoop> yeah I think i'm understanding the tasks system wrong.
2019-05-23T06:09:57 < rajkosto> theyre great if each one is controlling one aspect of the system
2019-05-23T06:10:08 < rajkosto> scheduling them to do the same thing like this but inverse is just going to lead to race condicitons like you have
2019-05-23T06:10:45 < Cracki> ok what's going on here is that the system does NOTHING except these tasks
2019-05-23T06:10:45 < datasoop> is the right way to implement this by using some locking mechanism or a queue?
2019-05-23T06:10:54 < Cracki> implement WHAT even
2019-05-23T06:11:07 < rajkosto> no.
2019-05-23T06:11:14 < rajkosto> if you just want to sleep between toggling a led, do it in one task
2019-05-23T06:11:15 < Cracki> tasks will or will not get out of phase
2019-05-23T06:11:23 < rajkosto> the advantage of using an OS is that other tasks can still be doing stuff while you are sleeping
2019-05-23T06:11:44 < Cracki> the delay is relative to _now_, and from the end of the last delay to the start of the next one, code from the task is executed, which may or may not take a timer tick
2019-05-23T06:11:47 < Cracki> (or more)
2019-05-23T06:12:11 < Cracki> so if you wanted this running halfway reliably, in _this_ form, you'd have to look if there's a "delayUntil" that takes an absolute time
2019-05-23T06:12:36 < Cracki> then you'd schedule one to run at 0, the other at 250, and increment each by 500 and have them delay UNTIL that tick time
2019-05-23T06:13:16 < Cracki> the only thing that can fuck it up then is if a task is not running for more than the period, which will cause it to "catch up", i.e. execute loops rapidly, before being in sync again
2019-05-23T06:13:38 < Cracki> you really should make led blinking a single task
2019-05-23T06:14:19 < Cracki> you could use some synchronization between tasks, sure... but that's just complicated and ONLY good for exploring the mechanisms
2019-05-23T06:15:19 < datasoop> thanks :)
2019-05-23T06:15:59 < Cracki> you know processes and threads, a process has threads and if it doesn't it's kinda dead and gets cleaned up. THIS stuff only has "threads" because everything can access everything else. no MMU, _maybe_ a memory protection unit.
2019-05-23T06:17:34 < datasoop> it's just a STM32F103 µC
2019-05-23T06:25:15 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/iJ3ykDu.png interesting search results in google
2019-05-23T06:28:44 < dongs> should I use USB-B or USB-C for a new product that will draw ~800mA under load
2019-05-23T06:31:16 < Thorn> wait for USB-D
2019-05-23T06:31:50 < dongs> i think ill go with -B and just run it out of spec cuz japan 
2019-05-23T06:32:19 < Thorn> it's not out of spec if host port is CDP
2019-05-23T06:32:37 < dongs> DCP you mean? or wahtever. charge port shit
2019-05-23T06:32:46 < Thorn> (or DCP)
2019-05-23T06:33:02 < Thorn> dcp = only charger, cdp = data + 1.5A
2019-05-23T06:33:15 < dongs> Charging downstream port (CDP) BC1.1 defines this new, higher current USB port for PCs, laptops, and other hardware. Now the CDP can supply up to 1.5A, which is a departure from USB 2.0 because this current can be supplied before enumeration. A device plugged into a CDP can recognize it as such by means of a hardware handshake implemented by manipulating and monitoring the D+ and D- lines. (See USB Battery 
2019-05-23T06:33:21 < dongs> Charging Specification, section 3.2.3.) The hardware test takes place before turning the data lines over to the USB transceiver, thus allowing a CDP to be detected (and charging to begin) before enumeration.
2019-05-23T06:33:25 < dongs> oh hm
2019-05-23T06:33:27 < dongs> interesting
2019-05-23T06:34:17 < dongs> does anything actualyl suport this
2019-05-23T06:34:28 < dongs> is that waht those yellow ports on newer boards are
2019-05-23T06:34:43 < dongs> you have a mix of black, yellow and blue usb connectors
2019-05-23T06:37:40 < Thorn> when I receive PCBs for my latest project (tomorrow hopefully) and assemble one of them I'll know for sure if my computers / chargers support that, I implemented charging port detection there
2019-05-23T06:38:11 < Thorn> I think mac mini should provide > 0.5A but I'm not sure if it's CDP compliant
2019-05-23T06:41:13 < dongs> how do you 'detect' it?
2019-05-23T06:41:21 < dongs> don't you need to short DP/DM stuff with resistors and feed to adc or something?
2019-05-23T06:41:35 < Thorn> usb core in F0 / L0 can do it
2019-05-23T06:42:00 < Thorn> don't even need to enumerate / set up usb stack if you don't want to
2019-05-23T06:42:13 < mawk> you pull up/down D+ and D- in a certain manner dongs 
2019-05-23T06:42:20 < mawk> and that is DCP, or quickcharge, or whatever
2019-05-23T06:42:21 < dongs> Thorn: neat
2019-05-23T06:42:29 < dongs> mawk: yeah, thats on the port itself
2019-05-23T06:42:33 < dongs> we're talkin about detection
2019-05-23T06:42:42 < dongs> for port i use dedicated chink IC
2019-05-23T06:42:47 < dongs> to advertise as DCP/whatever
2019-05-23T06:42:51 < mawk> detection
2019-05-23T06:43:09 < dongs> k
2019-05-23T06:43:32 < rajkosto> you know there are OLED display charger doctors for normal usb and usb-c and tell you the state of the pins and stuff
2019-05-23T06:43:38 < rajkosto> measure the voltage, current, etc
2019-05-23T06:43:45 < mawk> detection by who ?
2019-05-23T06:43:55 < mawk> by the host ?
2019-05-23T06:44:05 < dongs> by the device being connected
2019-05-23T06:44:10 < dongs> host doesn't detect
2019-05-23T06:44:12 < dongs> host advertises
2019-05-23T06:44:14 < dongs> device detects
2019-05-23T06:44:24 < dongs> (and decides to draw > 500mA or wahtever or not)
2019-05-23T06:44:33 < mawk> I thought it was the converse with quickcharge stuff
2019-05-23T06:44:47 < mawk> device advertises quicharge capability by pulling D+ D- in some way, then host can send full current
2019-05-23T06:44:50 < dongs> qc / higher voltage stuff has a protocol, yes
2019-05-23T06:44:57 < dongs> some sorta bmc/whatever stuff
2019-05-23T06:45:05 < dongs> but plain dcp is just ressitors/pullups/something
2019-05-23T06:45:49 < mawk> ah yes ok the thing I had in mind is for voltage
2019-05-23T06:46:02 < mawk> http://blog.deconinck.info/public/QuickCharge/Quadrants_QC2___old_dots___new_dots.gif
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2019-05-23T06:59:11 < dongs> i dont think there's any current quickcharge standard that will issue > 5V without proper negotiation
2019-05-23T06:59:16 < dongs> i.e. just based on voltage levels
2019-05-23T06:59:22 < dongs> whatever that pdf thing is , probasbly is bullshit
2019-05-23T07:05:38 < rajkosto> the only way to get > 5V is either QuickCharge or USB-PD over USB-C
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2019-05-23T07:11:57 < Cracki> this talks about "0.325V" on D+ to "enter" QC2 mode https://www.etradesupply.com/blog/how-well-do-you-know-about-your-fast-charging-phone/
2019-05-23T07:12:30 < rajkosto> you can get quickcharge controllers
2019-05-23T07:12:32 < Cracki> bad english but hey it seems to be real
2019-05-23T07:16:20 < rajkosto> http://www.cctvopticallens.com/product/3-2mm-Megapixel-M12-0-5-Mount-HD-Flat-Pinhole-Lens.html from which piece of glass is the focal point distance measured from
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2019-05-23T07:21:59 < dongs> did starlink ever launch
2019-05-23T07:22:55 < Cracki> in 18 hours or so
2019-05-23T07:23:56 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N8YfwG9MjI
2019-05-23T07:24:36 < dongs> does lcsc know what a diode is
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2019-05-23T07:27:30 < Cracki> haha the blur
2019-05-23T07:27:33 < rajkosto> let's KNOW.
2019-05-23T07:27:39 < dongs> the blur, it does nothing
2019-05-23T07:28:07 < rajkosto> lol they actually manually have to find everything you order ?
2019-05-23T07:28:08 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mqNTi2s1i4 more blur
2019-05-23T07:28:14 < dongs> rajkosto: yes? what did you expect
2019-05-23T07:28:22 < rajkosto> MACHIIIINESSSS
2019-05-23T07:28:25 < dongs> haha fuck off
2019-05-23T07:28:31 < rajkosto> why not
2019-05-23T07:28:35 < rajkosto> feed the tape, cut the tape
2019-05-23T07:28:38 < rajkosto> seal bag
2019-05-23T07:28:39 < rajkosto> move on
2019-05-23T07:28:47 < dongs> they don't even have a smt parts counter on that cart
2019-05-23T07:28:57 < dongs> i have one that you put 2 reels on and specify pitch and it just whirs and counts
2019-05-23T07:29:54 < Cracki> a proper warehousing system at least gives you coordinates so you can find the box faster
2019-05-23T07:33:47 < dongs> ive never ordered from lcsc
2019-05-23T07:36:27 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59JjLwTfN6E zener diodes go by weight
2019-05-23T07:37:21 < rajkosto> ```Note to self: LCSC uses "wireless ESD straps", which anyone with the slightest understanding about what ESD is would realise is completely ineffective. Do I want to risk buying my ICs from a company whose ESD protection strategy is pure snake oil? Hell no.```
2019-05-23T07:37:39 < rajkosto> that 1mohm resistor connected to nothing
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2019-05-23T08:15:49 < emeb_mac> lol @ "wireless ESD straps"
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2019-05-23T08:16:33 < emeb_mac> maybe they have lots of sharp-point field diffusors - equivalent to lightning rods.
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2019-05-23T08:19:22 < emeb_mac> seems like fail -> https://transforming-technologies.com/esd-fyi/wireless-wrist-strap-for-grounding-and-esd-control-do-they-work/
2019-05-23T08:19:24  * qyx innovating
2019-05-23T08:20:40 < rajkosto> yes the 1megohm resistor in a plastic box does nothing as expected
2019-05-23T08:21:36 < qyx> for data processing, without much IO and stuff, I am choosing between F750 + dual quad spi + sdram or L4R5 + hyper DRAM + hyper flash
2019-05-23T08:22:10 < qyx> it looks like L4R5 + hyper DRAM is much less power hungry at comparable speeds
2019-05-23T08:22:25 < dongs> the fuck is L4R5
2019-05-23T08:22:32 < qyx> L4+ partno
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2019-05-23T08:22:50 < dongs> oh huh
2019-05-23T08:22:52 < dongs> inteersresingin
2019-05-23T08:22:54 < qyx> also, hyper DRAM is surprisingly cheap
2019-05-23T08:22:59 < dongs> the hell is hyper dram
2019-05-23T08:23:06 < qyx> are you living in the past
2019-05-23T08:23:06 < rajkosto> CYPRESS
2019-05-23T08:23:14 < dongs> ya man i never heard of any of th sshit
2019-05-23T08:23:18 < rajkosto> its innovation at work
2019-05-23T08:23:36 < qyx> me too, but it is on st.com for more than half a year for sure
2019-05-23T08:23:48 < qyx> hyperbus is some weird octo-SPI thing
2019-05-23T08:23:58 < qyx> L4+ has support for it
2019-05-23T08:24:04 < qyx> automotive++ apparently
2019-05-23T08:24:17 < dongs> way to lock yourself into bullshit vendors
2019-05-23T08:24:19 < dongs> like R2COMPress
2019-05-23T08:24:24 < qyx> possibly
2019-05-23T08:24:43 < dongs> does l4 support both memory mapped reads and writes to this hyperbus shit?
2019-05-23T08:24:44 < qyx> with stm32 you are locking yourself too
2019-05-23T08:24:48 < qyx> yes
2019-05-23T08:25:01 < dongs> yeah but at least TSTM32 is gonna be around 10 eyars from now
2019-05-23T08:25:37 < qyx> hence the dilemma
2019-05-23T08:26:02 < qyx> quad SPI and SDRAM is quite common, hyper thing is not
2019-05-23T08:26:50 < qyx> maybe I could try it just for the lulz
2019-05-23T08:26:55 < dongs> sdram is so cheap
2019-05-23T08:26:59 < dongs> and tons of vendors
2019-05-23T08:27:07 < dongs> and you dont need amaze routing quality you can just coathanger it
2019-05-23T08:27:10 < dongs> i'd say just use sdram
2019-05-23T08:27:13 < rajkosto> sdram is too slow need ddr4
2019-05-23T08:27:19 < dongs> too slow for what
2019-05-23T08:27:26 < rajkosto> 4GB/s
2019-05-23T08:28:39 < dongs> youre not gonna move 4gb/s out of a STM32
2019-05-23T08:28:52 < rajkosto> but i am out of quad core A72
2019-05-23T08:28:53 < dongs> qyx never specified what kinda bandwidth hes after with ram
2019-05-23T08:31:47 < qyx> oh the hyper thing is DDR
2019-05-23T08:31:54 < dongs> yes
2019-05-23T08:31:59 < qyx> with half the bus width
2019-05-23T08:32:35 < qyx> the speed doesn't matter for data
2019-05-23T08:32:45 < qyx> but F750 is value line with no flash
2019-05-23T08:33:06 < qyx> according to their AN it is designed for running code from external flash/sdram
2019-05-23T08:33:17 < qyx> the numbers are ~equal speed-wise
2019-05-23T08:33:30 < qyx> *no flash = 64K
2019-05-23T08:33:32 < dongs> even the shittiest sdram will be faster than flash
2019-05-23T08:33:41 < dongs> by orders of magnitude
2019-05-23T08:33:59 < qyx> I should see what do they use for their benchmarks
2019-05-23T08:34:25 < rajkosto> WAIT CYCLES WHEN ACCESSING FLASH
2019-05-23T08:34:25 < qyx> there were some discovery boards/nucleos mentioned iirc
2019-05-23T08:34:36 < dongs> anyway L45 looks too expensive and useless
2019-05-23T08:35:36 < rajkosto> chinese clone stm32 wins by having zero wait state flash
2019-05-23T08:35:36 < qyx> it's not, it runs at ~50uA/MHz
2019-05-23T08:36:06 < qyx> so it has its place for some applications
2019-05-23T08:36:13 < dongs> raj, you mean by caching all of flash in sram
2019-05-23T08:36:51 < dongs> GD32 stuff at least for F103 clones just has a SPI flash thats read at boot and cached in sram
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2019-05-23T08:37:05 < dongs> i think on larger size devices theres some caching/prefetching going on
2019-05-23T08:37:57 < rajkosto> why does stm32 need wait states for flash anyway
2019-05-23T08:38:01 < rajkosto> wasnt this technology figured out
2019-05-23T08:38:18 < rajkosto> mcus can XIP out of SPI flash even, by having a trace cache
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2019-05-23T08:40:02 < qyx> wait what, F746 discovery has 128mbit SDRAM but only 64mbit is accessible
2019-05-23T08:40:08 < qyx> because only half of the data lines is connected
2019-05-23T08:40:24 < qyx> was 128mbit cheaper or what
2019-05-23T08:40:49 < rajkosto> the fx3 explorer board has 16MB fancy SRAM onboard but only first 16K are accessible because of connected address lines
2019-05-23T08:41:38 < rajkosto> and yes, more common SDRAM sizes are cheaper
2019-05-23T08:42:42 < rajkosto> and 8bit and 16bit SDRAM were likely same pinout and they maybe ran out of 8bit chips so they just stuck 16bit in there ?
2019-05-23T08:43:16 < qyx> 16/32
2019-05-23T08:43:25 < qyx> maybe the FMC is 16bit only
2019-05-23T08:43:30 < qyx> SDRAM is 32bit
2019-05-23T08:52:03 < Thorn> so they basically told me to fuck off https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14/issues/162
2019-05-23T08:53:45 < dongs> well, they're not wrong
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2019-05-23T09:01:58 < rajkosto> wtf is a volatile function
2019-05-23T09:02:16 < dongs> its a function that doesnt modify itself
2019-05-23T09:02:22 < rajkosto> if you want a function pointer
2019-05-23T09:02:25 < rajkosto> use a function pointer
2019-05-23T09:02:28 < rajkosto> you can make those volatile
2019-05-23T09:02:39 < rajkosto> an inplace_function shouldnt be changed ?
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2019-05-23T09:17:55 < dongs> where in datasheet is diode voltage drop listed
2019-05-23T09:18:13 < dongs> thats Vf right?
2019-05-23T09:18:20 < qyx> yes
2019-05-23T09:18:28 < dongs> this dumb chink datasheet calls it "Maximum Instantaneous Forward Voltage at 3 A"
2019-05-23T09:18:57 < rajkosto> yes
2019-05-23T09:19:05 < qyx> maybe the diode is not rated at 3A continuous?
2019-05-23T09:19:10 < rajkosto> it does go higher with more amps
2019-05-23T09:19:28 < dongs> so if I wanted to use it to drop stuff at like 500mA, how do i calculate it
2019-05-23T09:19:35 < rajkosto> there should be a graph
2019-05-23T09:19:38 < qyx> see the graph
2019-05-23T09:21:23 < dongs> INSTANTANEOUS FORWARD VOLEAGE,
2019-05-23T09:21:24 < dongs> VOLTS
2019-05-23T09:21:27 < dongs> voleage, haha
2019-05-23T09:22:20 < dongs> ok between 0.3 and 0.4V for 100mA-1A
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2019-05-23T09:43:27 < Thorn> rajkosto: I don't know what a volatile function is, I'm talking about a volatile variable (that contains a callable object0
2019-05-23T09:45:29 < emeb_mac> Yeah - I was wondering about that oddly asymmetrical RAM/Flash complement on the H750
2019-05-23T09:46:26 < emeb_mac> Makes sense that they'd be aiming to have it load up from external flash. Enough on-chip to support a bootloader and maybe a small embedded app, but most code in RAM loaded from external 
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2019-05-23T09:47:10 < Thorn> a callable object normally contains a function pointer + some extra data, such as captured variables in a capturing lambda
2019-05-23T09:51:27 < Thorn> src/app/ui.cc:65:24: error: 'MAIN_SCREEN' was not declared in this scope
2019-05-23T09:51:29 < Thorn> src/app/ui.cc:65:24: note: suggested alternative: 'CHIP_SCT_EVENT'
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2019-05-23T10:25:28 < rajkosto> whats the max current those little SOT3 n-mosfet can switch
2019-05-23T10:25:44 < dongs> you mean like 2N2007 type shit?
2019-05-23T10:26:00 < dongs> 2n7002
2019-05-23T10:26:06 < rajkosto> sot23-3
2019-05-23T10:26:12 < dongs> https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/ds11303.pdf
2019-05-23T10:26:16 < dongs> it depends on the part
2019-05-23T10:26:19 < dongs> i've seen them up to 1-2 A
2019-05-23T10:26:33 < dongs> like NDS355an
2019-05-23T10:26:45 < rajkosto> thats a massive rdson
2019-05-23T10:26:57 < dongs> NDS? or 2N?
2019-05-23T10:27:01 < dongs> 2N is a generic garbage fet
2019-05-23T10:27:02 < rajkosto> on the first one
2019-05-23T10:27:12 < dongs> yeah, the applications its used in this doesnt amtter at all
2019-05-23T10:27:29 < Thorn> ao340x should switch a few amps
2019-05-23T10:27:41 < Thorn> or irlml25/28xxxx
2019-05-23T10:27:46 < rajkosto> i only have 3.3V gate voltage obvioulsy
2019-05-23T10:27:57 < dongs> eyah those all work at 3.3V
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2019-05-23T10:28:03 < rajkosto> yes but even higher rdson
2019-05-23T10:28:23 < Thorn> "even higher" = ~60mΩ?
2019-05-23T10:28:30 < dongs> http://aosmd.com/res/data_sheets/ao3400a.pdf
2019-05-23T10:29:08 < dongs> that is a beast
2019-05-23T10:29:11 < dongs> what are you switching?
2019-05-23T10:29:16 < Thorn> even less than 60mΩ
2019-05-23T10:29:29 < rajkosto> that is a beast
2019-05-23T10:29:47 < dongs> and still like 8c
2019-05-23T10:29:48 < dongs> in china
2019-05-23T10:29:55 < rajkosto> alpha and omega
2019-05-23T10:30:01 < dongs> they're legit.
2019-05-23T10:30:06 < dongs> i used their switchers and fets and shit
2019-05-23T10:31:11 < Thorn> 3A^2 * 0.05Ω * 125°C/W = 56°C
2019-05-23T10:32:04 < dongs> gonna go 56C aboce ambient to switch 3A?
2019-05-23T10:32:08 < Thorn> wait why 0.05Ω, that's worse than @2.5V
2019-05-23T10:32:33 < Thorn> 3A^2 * 0.04Ω * 125°C/W = 45°C
2019-05-23T10:32:35 < dongs> SOT23 is a prety garbage package if you want real power there's 3x3 DFN stuff
2019-05-23T10:32:46 < dongs> with much better dissipation
2019-05-23T10:32:48 < Thorn> that's continuous 3A
2019-05-23T10:35:01 < Thorn> SO8 fets with ~same Rdson @ 3A are cold (ambient temp) to the touch
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2019-05-23T10:46:10 < rajkosto> so what do you use if you need to switch the positive rail
2019-05-23T10:46:22 < dongs> IRLML
2019-05-23T10:47:33 < dongs> 6401TR
2019-05-23T10:47:35 < dongs> this
2019-05-23T10:47:38 < dongs> is pretty good pfet
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2019-05-23T11:45:10 < con3> anyone know how to start a dual simulataneous adc conversion? I'm just seeing lots of questions on st community on it, tried using the HAL_ADC_Start function, but it seems to start them independently with no data in C_ADC_CDR
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2019-05-23T11:54:02 < catphish> afaik if they're running independently, they must not have been configured for dual ADC properly
2019-05-23T11:54:13 < catphish> i don't think the start function is the problem, but the config prior to that
2019-05-23T11:54:27 < catphish> but i don't use the HAL, so not sure of the details
2019-05-23T11:54:42 < catphish> and now i must fly, good luck
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2019-05-23T12:49:06 < kakimir> murican snus
2019-05-23T12:49:39 < kakimir> weird stuff.. it's like smoky wet tobacco cut
2019-05-23T12:51:09 < kakimir> it's placed under bottom lip
2019-05-23T12:59:22 < karlp> con3: do you have dual adcs on your part?
2019-05-23T12:59:35 < karlp> there's a proper app note from st on using the adc modes too, it's worth reading.
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2019-05-23T13:47:12 < zyp> got some iot thing to plug into my power meter, of course I had to rip it open to check how it looks inside: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NTFuY.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/kApV0.jpg
2019-05-23T13:47:29 < zyp> LTE M1/NB1 module, esp32, supercaps
2019-05-23T13:47:49 < dongs> wow, an actual ESP14/88 in the wild
2019-05-23T13:47:50 < dongs> what teh hell
2019-05-23T13:48:55 < dongs> 4L board too
2019-05-23T13:49:17 < zyp> well, yeah, I don't think you'd do LTE on 2L
2019-05-23T13:49:32 < dongs> why not?
2019-05-23T13:49:34 < dongs> its a module
2019-05-23T13:49:46 < dongs> i made an IdioT thing with LTE on 2L just few days ago
2019-05-23T13:50:08 < zyp> ha, okay
2019-05-23T13:50:28 < dongs> its just a module and like 90% of hte pins are unconnected anyway
2019-05-23T13:50:34 < dongs> if you just use USB + power
2019-05-23T13:50:43 < qyx> quacktel?
2019-05-23T13:50:45 < dongs> yep
2019-05-23T13:50:46 < dongs> EC35
2019-05-23T13:50:48 < dongs> err EC25
2019-05-23T13:50:58 < qyx> no, BG96
2019-05-23T13:50:59 < qyx> whats that
2019-05-23T13:51:04 < qyx> the zyp's one
2019-05-23T13:51:04 < dongs> thats also quacktel
2019-05-23T13:51:08 < dongs> prolly some M2M lte trash
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2019-05-23T13:51:11 < zyp> the LTE design I reviewed some weeks ago had a bunch of stuff on the RF path
2019-05-23T13:51:45 < qyx> wut it is a proper esp32
2019-05-23T13:52:03 < zyp> same antenna though
2019-05-23T13:52:38 < qyx> si7021 or similar spotted
2019-05-23T13:52:47 < qyx> temp/humidity
2019-05-23T13:52:53 < zyp> yeah
2019-05-23T13:53:09 < zyp> okay, time to go plug this in my power meter to see if it works
2019-05-23T13:53:15 < dongs> and a FTDI
2019-05-23T13:53:18 < dongs> trash
2019-05-23T13:53:25 < zyp> wonder how well LTE will work from inside the metal enclosure the meter sits in
2019-05-23T13:53:39 < qyx> how does it authenticate
2019-05-23T13:53:47 < qyx> doesn't it use some sort of sim?
2019-05-23T13:53:50 < zyp> with what?
2019-05-23T13:53:56 < qyx> with the lte base station
2019-05-23T13:53:57 < zyp> I assume one of the chips is an esim
2019-05-23T13:54:08 < dongs> qyx, the thing directly left of quakctel is a sim
2019-05-23T13:54:14 < dongs> the flat looking thing
2019-05-23T13:54:16 < dongs> in SOP8
2019-05-23T13:54:41 < qyx> did you use such thing?
2019-05-23T13:54:54 < qyx> I mean
2019-05-23T13:55:14 < dongs> no , i used proper microsim socket, but ive used smartcard ICs in that format
2019-05-23T13:55:15 < qyx> is it usable for something other? (ie. docs available)
2019-05-23T13:55:29 < dongs> its just a smartcard basically, which is what sim is
2019-05-23T13:55:38 < dongs> just not in bonded pads form factor
2019-05-23T13:55:40 < qyx> I know, but that "basically" is important
2019-05-23T13:55:52 < qyx> 99% of smarcard is proprietary trash without any docs
2019-05-23T13:55:55 < dongs> yes, of course
2019-05-23T13:55:56 < qyx> maybe except ateccXXX
2019-05-23T13:55:58 < dongs> why would this be any different
2019-05-23T13:56:08 < dongs> its just a sim packaged in IC
2019-05-23T13:56:32 < dongs> the smartcard shit i worked with i had proper docs for
2019-05-23T13:56:38 < dongs> and emulator hardware and shit
2019-05-23T13:56:47 < qyx> yeah but used differently from the point of provisioning
2019-05-23T13:56:48 < dongs> a whole bunch of boxes amde out of weird FPGAs and ribbon cables
2019-05-23T13:56:53 < qyx> meh
2019-05-23T13:57:20 < dongs> anyway, a sim is a sim, either packaged as normal sim card format or as IC, the function doesn't change.
2019-05-23T13:57:30 < dongs> the pinout is same too. vcc/clk/gnd/io/ whatever
2019-05-23T13:57:44 < zyp> the design I reviewed had footprints both for esim and a socket
2019-05-23T13:57:53 < qyx> yes, but you don't buy sop8 sims from the network operator
2019-05-23T13:57:56 < dongs> yeah its whatever your provider can give you
2019-05-23T13:58:05 < qyx> you do?
2019-05-23T13:58:20 < dongs> qyx, you can if you have high enough volume
2019-05-23T13:58:23 < dongs> that requires such
2019-05-23T13:58:27 < dongs> if youre making 10 devices, no
2019-05-23T13:58:27 < zyp> also, doesn't all decent operators nowadays support esim?
2019-05-23T13:58:47 < qyx> idk, I am just asking
2019-05-23T13:58:55 < qyx> because I don$'t know if you get preprogrammed chips or what
2019-05-23T13:59:13 < qyx> or there is some special method of provisioning
2019-05-23T13:59:27 < dongs> yes, preprogrammed chips 
2019-05-23T13:59:29 < qyx> network operator giving you some hw/sw to program it
2019-05-23T13:59:33 < dongs> just like you get preopgrammed batches of simcards
2019-05-23T13:59:34 < qyx> k
2019-05-23T13:59:52 < qyx> makes ~sense
2019-05-23T14:00:11 < zyp> no, esim has provisioning stuff
2019-05-23T14:00:19 < dongs> esim is nigger apple shit
2019-05-23T14:00:20 < zyp> doesn't need to be preprogrammed
2019-05-23T14:00:22 < dongs> the sooner that dies the better
2019-05-23T14:00:27 < zyp> uh, no
2019-05-23T14:00:53 < qyx> nah so who is right
2019-05-23T14:01:09 < dongs> esim = shit literally nobody outside crapple uses
2019-05-23T14:01:18 < zyp> …
2019-05-23T14:01:26 < dongs> so that IC on zyps board being e-sim is like literally 0.001% chance
2019-05-23T14:03:30 < qyx> afk, I'll read the conclusion later
2019-05-23T14:06:56 < zyp> it's the same fucking shit, preprovisioned or remotely provisioned
2019-05-23T14:08:16 < zyp> as a counterpoint to the claim that nobody except apple uses it: norwegian operators talks about provisioning esim in samsung watches and stuff
2019-05-23T14:12:12 < karlp> zyp: is that your norwegian HAN port thing? witht he reverse mbus?
2019-05-23T14:14:03 < zyp> yes
2019-05-23T14:15:00 < karlp> esim is totally the future, fuck having to buy special sims from the operators.
2019-05-23T14:16:31 < zyp> maybe, but how easy is it to switch operators in that case?
2019-05-23T14:16:49 < zyp> e.g. temporary, when you're travelling
2019-05-23T14:16:51 < karlp> apparently flawless and transparent, because that's what esim is for.
2019-05-23T14:18:16 < zyp> it sounds good on paper, but the way I see it there's so many ways to fuck up the usability in practice, so I'm not really convinced until I've seen it working nicely
2019-05-23T14:21:36 < karlp> well, it's got a chance, which we don't have now, so I'm all on board.
2019-05-23T14:25:33 < zyp> true
2019-05-23T14:26:36 < zyp> I'm all for not having to dick with simcards, as long as I can still get a temporary japanese subscription next time I go to jp
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2019-05-23T14:49:15 < qyx> I would use it to but for now classic sims are more convenient
2019-05-23T14:49:34 < qyx> and as far as you can get one for 4e, there is no reason
2019-05-23T14:49:48 < qyx> except when there is not enough space on the pcb
2019-05-23T14:50:57 < karlp> I like them for not having to have a sim slot/cage user accessible. (not that I've ever actually _done_ that, just don't want to have to)
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2019-05-23T15:16:42 < zyp> agreed
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2019-05-23T15:50:05 < Thorn> attn zyp have you seen this shit https://github.com/WG21-SG14/SG14/issues/162
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2019-05-23T15:57:23 < karlp> if you're doing translations, and you have like "word:" is : "universal" as a separator like that? or should that be in the translation too?
2019-05-23T15:57:51  * karlp goes to read guides from translation services instead.
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2019-05-23T16:11:20 < Thorn> karlp: it should be for latin/cyrillic languages
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2019-05-23T16:37:00 < dongs> karlp: yeah, if its a label or something for something?
2019-05-23T16:51:33 < jadew> I love linux
2019-05-23T16:52:10 < jadew> how do you change your resolution in hyper-v? it's obvious of course... you edit /etc/default/grub and add GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash video=hyperv_fb:1280x720"
2019-05-23T16:52:17 < jadew> OBVIOUSLY!
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2019-05-23T16:59:24 < karlp> yeah, web translation guys said : is included, even the space after it, all gets translated.
2019-05-23T17:00:06 < karlp> so I have to translate separately, "Modbus address" and "Modbus address: "
2019-05-23T17:00:19 < karlp> no big deal, just thought it looked non-ideal and haven't worked with it much before
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2019-05-23T17:35:04 < englishman> qyx: have you heard of this company https://hologram.io/store/global-iot-sim-card/52/
2019-05-23T17:35:54 < englishman> whoa they are on dijijew too
2019-05-23T17:36:06 < qyx> Spacebridge inbound tunnel
2019-05-23T17:36:16 < qyx> is it some space technology?
2019-05-23T17:37:12 < mawk> yes obviously jadew 
2019-05-23T17:37:22 < qyx> englishman: oh they have a free sim for testing
2019-05-23T17:37:27 < qyx> 1MB/mo only though
2019-05-23T17:37:31 < karlp> hyper-v is the bootloader?
2019-05-23T17:37:34 < englishman> yes
2019-05-23T17:37:38 < mawk> hyper-v is Windows hypervisor
2019-05-23T17:37:41 < englishman> 1mb feee
2019-05-23T17:37:41 < mawk> like KVM for linux
2019-05-23T17:37:45 < englishman> you can pay for more
2019-05-23T17:37:56 < karlp> why does that matter what resolution it is?
2019-05-23T17:38:05 < englishman> spacebridge is their name for the vpn or ssh or whatever
2019-05-23T17:38:23 < englishman> you get an IP from the web api
2019-05-23T17:38:25 < mawk> hyper-v program shows you the screen of the vm, so with a given resolution
2019-05-23T17:38:29 < qyx> englishman: $1.5 for device/mo + $0.40/MB is quite expensive
2019-05-23T17:38:30 < englishman> and can connect to that
2019-05-23T17:38:30 < mawk> like in virtualbox
2019-05-23T17:38:53 < mawk> unlike kvm which doesn't care about screens
2019-05-23T17:38:56 < englishman> qyx: good luck finding anything else at a similar rate, especially that works internationally with the same interface
2019-05-23T17:39:04 < qyx> englishman: I use prepaid cards, 0.04e/MB, no monthly fee
2019-05-23T17:39:07 < qyx> but not international
2019-05-23T17:39:26 < karlp> englishman: it's great for small volume high value, but no fucking iot is paying per meg.
2019-05-23T17:39:31 < karlp> but muh json!
2019-05-23T17:39:31 < englishman> nothing like that available outside of 1st world countries like Slovenia and Latvia
2019-05-23T17:39:53 < englishman> especially if you want to provision 1k units or something
2019-05-23T17:40:48 < Thorn> new nordick dev kit also has a "global" eSim from another provider
2019-05-23T17:41:09 < qyx> but whats the usecase for them
2019-05-23T17:41:31 < qyx> to sell hardware with $50 added to allow customer send their data for the next 10 years?
2019-05-23T17:41:34 < Thorn> https://enterpriseiotinsights.com/20190213/channels/news/nordic-solders-esim-into-iot-module
2019-05-23T17:42:21 < qyx> great for iot travelling with you but not for fixed installations
2019-05-23T17:42:26 < qyx> also, fuk iot
2019-05-23T17:43:04 < mawk> they're planning to give them to consumers qyx 
2019-05-23T17:43:16 < englishman> lol @ data prices that scale globally EXCEPT CANADA
2019-05-23T17:43:39 < englishman> qyx, I have one in my car
2019-05-23T17:43:45 < englishman> it uses like 70k a month
2019-05-23T17:44:10 < englishman> it's my remote start (climate control) location monitor and battery charge minder
2019-05-23T17:44:12 < mawk> the only added value I see is not having to wait 4 days to get a piece of plastic by mail when you switch carrier
2019-05-23T17:44:29 < mawk> but if we amortize that given that you don't switch carriers everyday I see no benefit
2019-05-23T17:44:52 < mawk> maybe for further miniaturization to have a 0.01mm side iphone
2019-05-23T17:44:53 < karlp> and no sim card cage and slot in the design of devices.
2019-05-23T17:44:57 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-23T17:45:01 < karlp> that's a bgi one.
2019-05-23T17:45:24 < karlp> no longer bound by human ability to interface with fingers.
2019-05-23T17:46:16 < qyx> also, I forgot to mention
2019-05-23T17:46:26 < qyx> this 0.04e/MB is in the whole EU
2019-05-23T17:46:40 < qyx> thanks to the EU anti-roaming-fee-policy regulation
2019-05-23T17:46:44 < karlp> eu roaming deal was such a fucking win
2019-05-23T17:47:42 < mawk> before that deal I paid like 5€/200MiB for overtime
2019-05-23T17:47:57 < mawk> for roaming sorry
2019-05-23T17:48:18 < qyx> now we have 2e/1GB for roaming data
2019-05-23T17:48:40 < qyx> or per-MB rate as mentioned
2019-05-23T17:48:53 < karlp> mqtt in your motahhhh, "I work on an embedded ECU that processes roughly 1200msgs/sec"
2019-05-23T17:49:53 < Steffanx> Do you have a last will?
2019-05-23T17:49:55 < qyx> mqtt in an ECU?
2019-05-23T17:49:59 < qyx> lol Steffanx 
2019-05-23T17:50:36 < karlp> qyx: well they just said ECU, it might _not_ be a vehicular ECU, but I don't know what else they'd mean
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2019-05-23T17:51:14 < karlp> https://www.eclipse.org/lists/mosquitto-dev/msg02127.html
2019-05-23T17:51:32 < qyx> actually this SIM may be used in Laurenceb__&co balloon business
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2019-05-23T17:51:50 < qyx> to call home when it lands
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2019-05-23T18:52:44 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhONp_VdCXE musics timemachine
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2019-05-23T19:11:41 < englishman> lol karlp
2019-05-23T19:11:47 < englishman> mqtt injection start
2019-05-23T19:11:51 < englishman> mqtt injection stop
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2019-05-23T19:12:00 < englishman> IoT enabled injectors
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2019-05-23T19:12:41 < karlp> well, people are using it as an IPC bus, just like zmq.
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2019-05-23T19:35:47 < englishman> https://github.com/sponsors
2019-05-23T19:36:48 < kakimir> sweet
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2019-05-23T19:47:29 < sync> pls no karlp
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2019-05-23T19:52:25 < karlp> why not?
2019-05-23T19:52:34 < karlp> you want to install dbus instead?
2019-05-23T19:52:37 < karlp> the fuck for?
2019-05-23T19:53:19 < karlp> would you be ok if you said they had a freertos queue that procssed 1200msgs/sec instead?
2019-05-23T19:54:21 < sync> well, if they used mqtt in a vehicle ecu that controls an engine I'd be sad
2019-05-23T19:54:35 < sync> and it'd have to do a lot more than just 1200msgs/s
2019-05-23T20:01:13 < karlp> send him an email and ask for details :)
2019-05-23T20:03:58 < Steffanx> i think sync will be happier not knowing
2019-05-23T20:04:51 < sync> I can see someone using mqtt on some kind of chassis ecu
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2019-05-23T20:56:50 < Steffanx> the same kind that uses apple music that fails because the servers are down?
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2019-05-23T21:40:34 < mawk> I forgot to turn the fan on, I breathed a bunch of flux vapors
2019-05-23T21:40:44 < mawk> I've never had such a strong headache
2019-05-23T21:41:52 < mawk> good thing my daily medication includes one of the strongest chemical painkillers, let's rise the dose
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2019-05-23T21:45:26 < Steffanx> lolyou
2019-05-23T21:45:56 < kakimir> I always snort the gasses
2019-05-23T21:46:05 < Steffanx> but you are finnish.
2019-05-23T21:46:27 < kakimir> even next morning I taste the flux
2019-05-23T21:46:40 < kakimir> I have fan but cannot be bothered to pull it 20cm closer
2019-05-23T21:48:50 < Steffanx> Hows the heart condition kakimir?
2019-05-23T21:50:52 < kakimir> good
2019-05-23T21:50:59 < kakimir> no stress
2019-05-23T22:08:43 < mawk> I have terrible nausea now
2019-05-23T22:08:45 < mawk> the cancer is growing
2019-05-23T22:24:13 < Steffanx> its between your ears mawk
2019-05-23T22:24:21 < Steffanx> placebo
2019-05-23T22:32:04 < boddax> drinking a good glass of flux must solve the problem
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2019-05-23T22:33:55 < aandrew> yes but you need a decent vintage for that
2019-05-23T22:34:05 < aandrew> I suggest something from MG Chemicals' 2016
2019-05-23T22:46:13 < mawk> it's the one I have aandrew 
2019-05-23T22:47:32 < kakimir> mawk: I don't have cancer yet
2019-05-23T22:47:44 < kakimir> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7366338/
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2019-05-23T23:32:40 < qyx>  so jpa/kaki-landers won
2019-05-23T23:33:49 < kakimir> ice puck game?
2019-05-23T23:34:48 < qyx> yeah
2019-05-23T23:35:11 < qyx> cosmonauts with a piece of shit
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--- Day changed Fri May 24 2019
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2019-05-24T00:40:01 < Cracki> that's some leap
2019-05-24T00:40:27 < Cracki> wrong window
2019-05-24T00:40:46 < Cracki> apropos space, spacex launch in around 4 hours
2019-05-24T00:41:35 < specing> Are they going to mars yet?
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2019-05-24T00:53:58 < rajkosto> is elon musk personally in space yet
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2019-05-24T01:18:56 < Thorn> T - 4 h 12 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfbIMknNWks
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2019-05-24T01:57:33 < rajkosto> are there any true color OLED modules
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2019-05-24T03:22:51 < mawk> my headache is gone
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2019-05-24T03:25:56 < aandrew> that's the last thing a woman I used to know said before she was taken to hospital for an aneurysm
2019-05-24T03:26:00 < aandrew> she never recovered
2019-05-24T03:26:43 < mawk> :(
2019-05-24T03:26:49 < aandrew> she was at work, complaining of headache. went to her desk to just rest. guy checked on her "well, my headache's gone" and the next thing she said was unintelligible. lost consciousness and never came back
2019-05-24T03:27:07 < aandrew> mercifully she was gone rather quick
2019-05-24T03:27:09 < mawk> so it was anevrism break
2019-05-24T03:27:12 < aandrew> yes
2019-05-24T03:27:23 < mawk> that's the worst kind of cerebral vascular accident
2019-05-24T03:27:27 < mawk> you die in minutes
2019-05-24T03:27:46 < aandrew> "worst"
2019-05-24T03:28:05 < aandrew> I think I would rather that than how my maternal grandmother went: alzheimers
2019-05-24T03:28:27 < aandrew> and I think I'd prefer alzheimers to how my oldest son's gf's father went: ALS
2019-05-24T03:28:35 < aandrew> these wasting diseases can fuck right off
2019-05-24T03:29:13 < aandrew> that dude was a fucking tank too. big, strong man and at the end he was just a shell. I think it was less than 6mos
2019-05-24T03:31:38 < mawk> I meant the worst vascular accidents; you have other kinds like capillaries breaking
2019-05-24T03:31:41 < mawk> then you can recover
2019-05-24T03:31:53 < aandrew> oh I see
2019-05-24T03:33:36 < mawk> my cousin had one, he woke up everyday at 4 am to go to sleep at midnight for 30 years, then at a dinner he started speaking weird, ended up walking on all fours
2019-05-24T03:33:45 < mawk> he managed to say "no no I'm fine", but we got him to the ER
2019-05-24T03:33:52 < aandrew> holy fuck
2019-05-24T03:33:57 < aandrew> dude lived on 4h sleep for 30y?
2019-05-24T03:34:02 < mawk> now he recovered up to 80% or something, but he'll never work again
2019-05-24T03:34:08 < mawk> yeah something like this
2019-05-24T03:34:11 < mawk> he loved working
2019-05-24T03:34:26 < aandrew> I'm reading that chronic lack of sleep really fucks up the brain's ability to wash away amyloid plaques
2019-05-24T03:34:58 < aandrew> the sooner they can upload consciousness to the 'net the better
2019-05-24T03:35:04 < mawk> lol
2019-05-24T03:35:13 < mawk> yeah sleep deprivation can't in any way be good
2019-05-24T03:35:14 < aandrew> I'd volunteer for that shit when I'm more or less done with my body
2019-05-24T03:35:30 < mawk> it's your brain's only way to clean up things to come back to homeostasis after every day
2019-05-24T03:37:03 < Cracki> talk to elon musk. he has the right ideas about that.
2019-05-24T03:37:24 < mawk> I wouldn't trust musk with the coding of my net consciousness computer
2019-05-24T03:37:28 < mawk> or any human really
2019-05-24T03:37:35 < Cracki> "uploads" are like flying cars. something that's implausible because other better tech comes along.
2019-05-24T03:38:29 < Cracki> an "upload" assumes an untouched human brain, which, if that technology is around, is all but impossible to maintain. the same level of tech would lead to implants and "neural lace".
2019-05-24T03:38:42 < Cracki> and _that_ is the path to consciousness "upload"
2019-05-24T03:38:59 < mawk> I'd get bored living forever
2019-05-24T03:39:08 < mawk> I'd want at least a shutdown button
2019-05-24T03:39:16 < Cracki> we'll have to learn how to separate the digital neocortex from the biological layers it's sitting on
2019-05-24T03:39:23 < Cracki> rm -rf /
2019-05-24T03:41:49 < Cracki> uploads aren't gonna be the first thing. uplifts are gonna happen first.
2019-05-24T03:42:52 < Cracki> humans are gonna uplift themselves.
2019-05-24T04:03:41 < aandrew> mawk: yes, I would only do it if I had the ability to end my consciousness at my own will
2019-05-24T04:03:55 < aandrew> nobody knows what imortality is like and it may very well end up being madness
2019-05-24T04:04:12 < aandrew> "uplift" ?
2019-05-24T04:04:24 < aandrew> you mean bioelectronic augmentation of the brain?
2019-05-24T04:07:08 < Cracki> yes
2019-05-24T04:07:33 < Cracki> uplifting is mostly talked about for "lesser animals" but what are we if not lesser
2019-05-24T04:08:59 < Cracki> early augmentations are gonna improve output speed beyond speech and using hands
2019-05-24T04:11:47 < Cracki> today, if you cut out the part of the brain that's below the neocortex, you'd not only lose a lot of signal plumbing, but also all kinds of animal urges that make us get out of bed in the morning and so on
2019-05-24T04:12:44 < Cracki> emulating that is one path towards shedding the meat
2019-05-24T04:36:04 < dongs> hmm you know the diode in boost converters, doesn't that alreadyt prevent reverse voltage leakage into low voltage portion of the circuit?
2019-05-24T04:36:31 < dongs> the only other entry point is FB pin but thats usually got a huge resistor divider there
2019-05-24T04:41:36 < dongs> https://media.monolithicpower.com/catalog/product/cache/image/700x700/e9c3970ab036de70892d86c6d221abfe/M/P/MP1542_185_1.jpg like this shit
2019-05-24T04:44:50 < mawk> yes
2019-05-24T04:45:12 < mawk> maybe the inductor can make spikes into low voltage portion ?
2019-05-24T04:45:37 < mawk> no, diode prevents that
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2019-05-24T05:18:54 < Cracki> spacex fuckers switched the stream ID. it's now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riBaVeDTEWI
2019-05-24T05:18:56 < Thorn> Starlink mission live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riBaVeDTEWI
2019-05-24T05:23:44 < Cracki> wew 600 Mbit/s to a plane
2019-05-24T05:24:00 < dongs> heh
2019-05-24T05:27:06 < Cracki> 550 km is 1.8 milliseconds of light speed
2019-05-24T05:27:30 < dongs> what they need to do now is put fagbook servers up in space
2019-05-24T05:27:41 < dongs> so that indians using this grbage service have less latency to SNS
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2019-05-24T05:29:34 < Cracki> show bob and vagene
2019-05-24T05:40:32 < englishman> so they can spamcall and offer shitty tech support even faster
2019-05-24T06:32:23 < Cracki> deploy!
2019-05-24T06:33:55 < dongs> what lol
2019-05-24T06:34:01 < dongs> they're just gonna leat hem float away?
2019-05-24T06:35:09 < Cracki> didn't expect that either...
2019-05-24T06:35:35 < Cracki> I hope these things will start moving on their own
2019-05-24T06:36:01 < emeb_mac> wonder what sort of maneuvering systems they've got
2019-05-24T06:41:35 < Thorn> hall effect iirc
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2019-05-24T08:34:26 < rajkosto> how do i convert opamp output of 0.8v to 4.2v to one suitable for stm32 adc
2019-05-24T08:43:11 < dongs> use a follower opamp and set the scale or wahtever?
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2019-05-24T09:09:22 < rajkosto> huh its alreayd like 2.8v max
2019-05-24T09:09:53 < rajkosto> but if it wasnt couldnt i use just a normal diode and a schottky diode
2019-05-24T09:10:02 < rajkosto> their vf changes with load but load should be constant for an adc
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2019-05-24T10:12:10 < qyx> wat dropping voltage for adc using a diode?
2019-05-24T10:13:35 < dongs> god damn how the FUCK does altinigger not knoiw what the fuckign scale of imported dxf/dwg is
2019-05-24T10:13:39 < dongs> surely fucking format provides it
2019-05-24T10:15:51 < dongs> and i have to wait like 5 mins each import
2019-05-24T10:15:54 < dongs> what teh FUCK
2019-05-24T10:15:57 < dongs> just to find out scale was wrong
2019-05-24T10:16:24 < qyx> it just works in kikecad
2019-05-24T10:16:31 < dongs> lmao kikecad
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2019-05-24T10:17:17 < dongs> welp i dont think that worked
2019-05-24T10:20:07 < dongs> oh, and 5 more mins when i close the imported shit without saving
2019-05-24T10:20:10 < dongs> fuckin great
2019-05-24T10:20:19 < dongs> what teh fuck can actualyl open dxf so i can rip out just teh shit i need
2019-05-24T10:20:34 < Ultrasauce> freecad
2019-05-24T10:20:46 < dongs> something that actually WORKS
2019-05-24T10:21:00 < Ultrasauce> blender
2019-05-24T10:22:10 < dongs> freecad is 3d.
2019-05-24T10:22:31 < dongs> also comes with installer
2019-05-24T10:22:33 < dongs> i dont want opensores shit installed
2019-05-24T10:22:57 < dongs> ok portable shit is on shithub releases
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2019-05-24T10:26:09 < dongs> WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT
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2019-05-24T10:26:21 < Ultrasauce> gotemm
2019-05-24T10:26:32 < Steffanx> Songs songs take your pills please
2019-05-24T10:26:39 < Steffanx> Dongs lol
2019-05-24T10:26:47 < dongs> shift-delin this shit
2019-05-24T10:26:50 < dongs> lmao fucking opensores
2019-05-24T10:26:53 < Steffanx> Such typo fail 
2019-05-24T10:28:48 < dongs> well, fuck
2019-05-24T10:29:02 < dongs> im not downloading blender, that looks even less useful for dxf import than freeSCAT
2019-05-24T10:29:13 < dongs> lets try LIBRECAD
2019-05-24T10:29:35 < dongs> no portable
2019-05-24T10:29:36 < dongs> pass.
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2019-05-24T10:33:41 < Steffanx> Just pay for solid works and be done with it
2019-05-24T10:33:58 < dongs> no that shit is 50gigs installed and i dont need 99.999% of the shit it does
2019-05-24T10:34:11 < dongs> the real problem is altidumb import is disgusting
2019-05-24T10:35:05 < dongs> draftsman has DXF Import
2019-05-24T10:35:11 < dongs> lets se if its less fucked than PCB version
2019-05-24T10:35:17 < dongs> its definietyl slower, haha
2019-05-24T10:36:41 < dongs> a looooooooooooooooot slower
2019-05-24T10:37:01 < dongs> god damn waht the fuck did tehse japs do to make these dxf so fucking huge and unreadable
2019-05-24T10:37:05 < qyx> dongs: draftsight pls
2019-05-24T10:37:10 < qyx> quality software
2019-05-24T10:37:20 < qyx> no source, closedsores
2019-05-24T10:37:33 < dongs> that definitely comes with an installer
2019-05-24T10:37:38 < dongs> i think i used that once
2019-05-24T10:37:40 < dongs> couldnt figure shit out
2019-05-24T10:37:40 < qyx> of course
2019-05-24T10:37:44 < qyx> and 600meg
2019-05-24T10:37:54 < dongs> well NIGRECAD was also 480megs
2019-05-24T10:37:57 < dongs> but didnt even work
2019-05-24T10:38:15 < dongs> draftsight is "buy now" 
2019-05-24T10:38:18 < dongs> lol $100 per year
2019-05-24T10:38:20 < dongs> getfo
2019-05-24T10:38:27 < qyx> it is still free
2019-05-24T10:39:09 < dongs> how oit ifree
2019-05-24T10:39:14 < dongs> if every link on site goes to buy now
2019-05-24T10:39:27 < dongs> draftsman still importing
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2019-05-24T10:41:28 < qyx> fuk them
2019-05-24T10:41:46 < Ultrasauce> how big is this dxf
2019-05-24T10:41:49 < qyx> few  months ago draftsight standard was free
2019-05-24T10:41:50 < dongs> 1meg lmao
2019-05-24T10:42:02 < qyx> and draftsight pro was $99
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2019-05-24T10:42:09 < qyx> now not free anymore
2019-05-24T10:42:20 < qyx> 1meg dxf is small
2019-05-24T10:42:28 < dongs> well uh... draftsman improted it
2019-05-24T10:42:33 < dongs> but of course i cant do shit with it
2019-05-24T10:43:09 < qyx> fuk they wanted that people get used to id and now they are wanting $100
2019-05-24T10:43:11 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/gHokiYR.png
2019-05-24T10:43:15 < dongs> qyx yea
2019-05-24T10:43:28 < dongs> like i said i recall downloading that a few years back and it was definitely free
2019-05-24T10:43:56 < qyx> the bad thjing is that those old versions were limited to half a year or so
2019-05-24T10:44:06 < dongs> runtime?
2019-05-24T10:44:09 < qyx> until they stop working
2019-05-24T10:44:13 < dongs> nice
2019-05-24T10:44:17 < dongs> well, tehy prepared well
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2019-05-24T10:57:33 < dongs> what the fuck do you do with an antenna that has NEGATIVE gain?
2019-05-24T10:57:41 < dongs> does that mean it needs LNA to be useful?
2019-05-24T10:58:49 < dongs> (for RX)
2019-05-24T10:59:19 < qyx> no, it is just a few dB worse than a positive one
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2019-05-24T11:02:22 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/W15dATo.png man the whole reason i want this shit as DXF is beacuse EVERY FUCKING SINGLE CALLOUT on this drawing is NOT TEH DIMENSION THAT I WANT
2019-05-24T11:02:24 < dongs> fuuuuck
2019-05-24T11:03:08 < rajkosto> i love when i have to do that head_math.gif every time to figure out the dimension you would care about from the unrelated ones they specified on the really shit quality .gif
2019-05-24T11:03:18 < dongs> yeah
2019-05-24T11:04:04 < dongs> ilke fuck off, why would you specify the 8.1 distance on teh left
2019-05-24T11:04:13 < dongs> relative to the OUTSIDE OF THE CASE
2019-05-24T11:04:39 < dongs> its completley FUCKING USELESS beacuse you want to know the internal clearance after pcb
2019-05-24T11:04:46 < dongs> to the fucking inner edge
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2019-05-24T11:05:17 < rajkosto> one time they didnt specify ONLY the 2 dimensions i cared about
2019-05-24T11:05:24 < rajkosto> and the drawing wasnt "to scale" it had those continuation wigglies
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2019-05-24T11:37:51 < dongs> still looking for something that will open dxf properly
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2019-05-24T11:57:10 < jly> I've been UHH..... DISCONNECTED
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2019-05-24T12:07:07 < dongs> how's eMachineShop
2019-05-24T12:12:17 < jly> hi
2019-05-24T12:12:23 < jly> wtf is emachineshop
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2019-05-24T12:12:49 < dongs> sweet. it imported teh shit, and i can copy/new/paste just the bits i want
2019-05-24T12:12:57 < dongs> and it was only like 15megt download
2019-05-24T12:14:09 < dongs> it saved DXF as inch but thats ok
2019-05-24T12:14:15 < dongs> at least import is instant
2019-05-24T12:14:49 < jly> ah okay
2019-05-24T12:24:23 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/AxR5IoS.png nice
2019-05-24T12:31:20 < dongs> hmmm, it has step export
2019-05-24T12:32:09 < jly> what is it
2019-05-24T12:32:20 < dongs> eMachineShop, you dingus
2019-05-24T12:32:32 < jly> it's like you're speaking Chinese to me
2019-05-24T12:33:56 < jly> ok the google answered
2019-05-24T12:33:59 < jly> thanks
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2019-05-24T12:39:04 < jly> seems quite nifty
2019-05-24T12:41:29 < dongs> very nice, the .step it exports can load into altium
2019-05-24T12:41:46 < dongs> so i can import that enclosure dxf, cut some holes in it, and stick it back into pro tool as 3d model
2019-05-24T12:42:16 < dongs> and i didnt even need to open the sores
2019-05-24T12:43:22 < jly> sounds quite good then
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2019-05-24T13:17:02 < englishman> you can define PCB outline from 3d model too
2019-05-24T13:18:10 < jly> is that what the Altium tutor said
2019-05-24T13:18:17 < jly> I distinctly remember that
2019-05-24T13:25:04 < Steffanx> Did it crash when he tried to show this?
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2019-05-24T13:26:38 < jly> no but everywhere else 
2019-05-24T13:26:46 < jly> that poor bastard
2019-05-24T13:27:04 < jly> "yeah we're going to fix that" - spoken 30 times
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2019-05-24T13:31:10 < jly> is mitrax still around?
2019-05-24T13:35:46 < Steffanx> Who is mitrax 
2019-05-24T13:39:10 < jly> some pumper
2019-05-24T13:39:23 < jly> he likes sheds
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2019-05-24T13:49:08 < onio> just throwing this question out there. When using I2C interrupt on the STM32H743 if there any point in verifying "device I2C OwnAddress1" in the ISR as I just observed that the ISR would only fire if the address on the bus matches its own
2019-05-24T13:49:45 < onio> correction = is there any point ...
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2019-05-24T13:55:52 < dongs> onio, why would you verify it anyway? from where?
2019-05-24T13:56:12 < dongs> in the data received?
2019-05-24T13:56:40 < onio> In the I2C2_EV_IRQHandler(void) function
2019-05-24T13:57:01 < dongs> must be cube stufF?
2019-05-24T13:57:37 < onio> I2C2->ISR register contains all kind of information on of which is the device address
2019-05-24T13:58:32 < dongs> anyway in slave mode it should only respond to its own address unless you're doing some weird broadcast stuff (and does st even support that)?
2019-05-24T13:58:43 < dongs> so there's no way to check
2019-05-24T13:58:47 < dongs> way=need
2019-05-24T13:59:06 < onio> yes there is but it just seems redundant
2019-05-24T13:59:31 < dongs> what the fuck is the point of '3d measurement' in altium if its completely uselesly broekn
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2019-05-24T14:29:26 < dongs> well that didnt last long
2019-05-24T14:29:33 < dongs> i added 2 new holes to jewmachineshop
2019-05-24T14:29:36 < dongs> and they're not in step export
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2019-05-24T14:30:06 < dongs> ah, altidumb is doing caching
2019-05-24T14:30:11 < dongs> fuckin wankers
2019-05-24T14:31:45 < zyp> haha
2019-05-24T14:33:09 < zyp> I'm redesigning my ethernet bootloader protocol, gonna switch from using a custom ethertype to use udp packets, so it gets easier to deal with on the other end
2019-05-24T14:33:27 < dongs> coiol
2019-05-24T14:33:33 < zyp> wondering how I should sort out addressing
2019-05-24T14:33:36 < dongs> yeah im sure nobody appreciates having to code raw ehternet frames in python
2019-05-24T14:33:51 < dongs> zyp, multicast?
2019-05-24T14:34:11 < dongs> i mean, a multicast addr
2019-05-24T14:34:18 < zyp> yeah, that's what I'm considering
2019-05-24T14:34:29 < dongs> fw upgrade is gonna be a 1:1 thing right?
2019-05-24T14:34:34 < dongs> or does it have to have an actual real address for that
2019-05-24T14:34:59 < zyp> no, I currently have nine devices in a network, and I wanna be able to both discover and update them all at once
2019-05-24T14:35:05 < zyp> preferably through a router
2019-05-24T14:35:15 < karlp> mdns?
2019-05-24T14:35:32 < dongs> yeah all at once, just do multicast so it all goes to every device and don't bother replying
2019-05-24T14:35:38 < zyp> picked up an edgerouter x for the purpose the other day
2019-05-24T14:35:59 < zyp> nah, I don't wanna do no replies
2019-05-24T14:36:03 < dongs> verify each packet internally before commiting it to flash/wahtever
2019-05-24T14:36:16 < dongs> why? just fire and forget then you can update 100 at a time
2019-05-24T14:36:18 < zyp> I have distinct devices, and I also wanna pick which to update
2019-05-24T14:36:23 < dongs> ah
2019-05-24T14:36:57 < zyp> two types of hardware, and I might want to only update only one of my three masters
2019-05-24T14:38:11 < zyp> I've kinda got two ways to deal with this
2019-05-24T14:38:32 < zyp> I've already got a board type and serial stored in OTP, so I'm planning to derive addresses from that
2019-05-24T14:39:21 < zyp> I could either just use those to pick some addr from 10.123.xxx.xxx/16
2019-05-24T14:39:38 < zyp> or I could use a multicast addr with a custom addressing layer on top
2019-05-24T14:40:52 < zyp> I'm leaning a bit towards the latter, seems like less hassle, assuming I could get the multicast routing right once I introduce a router and multiple interfaces on the host to the mix
2019-05-24T14:42:34 < zyp> if I derive unicast addrs, I still need to do discovery somehow
2019-05-24T14:42:45 < dongs> hmm yeah
2019-05-24T14:43:11 < zyp> and I'm not sure subnet broadcast would pass through the router (e.g. just sending to 10.123.255.255)
2019-05-24T14:43:59 < karlp> dns-sd
2019-05-24T14:44:40 < qyx> it would not
2019-05-24T14:45:08 < qyx> also meh multicast routing
2019-05-24T14:45:26 < zyp> the router is optional and I can configure it
2019-05-24T14:45:46 < zyp> I just want it to isolate my industrial network from other bullshit
2019-05-24T14:45:57 < qyx> I would do simple udp unicast unmless there are 10000 devices to update
2019-05-24T14:46:35 < zyp> the update protocol itself is gonna be unicast, but I need discovery
2019-05-24T14:47:10 < qyx> what about the cisco stuff
2019-05-24T14:47:16 < qyx> it was quiite easy
2019-05-24T14:47:22 < qyx> also mikrotik supported
2019-05-24T14:47:28 < qyx> cdp or how is it called
2019-05-24T14:47:57 < zyp> also, I wanna keep the protocol on my end devices as simple as possible
2019-05-24T14:48:30 < qyx> it is a simple multicast
2019-05-24T14:48:33 < qyx> shjort packet
2019-05-24T14:48:43 < dongs> hmm
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2019-05-24T14:48:48 < zyp> currently my IP layer looks like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Xwemz
2019-05-24T14:48:53 < dongs> no numerical entry for stuff in emachine
2019-05-24T14:49:02 < dongs> i cant put something at given x/y without using grid or nudging it around
2019-05-24T14:49:04 < dongs> thats pretty gay
2019-05-24T14:49:12 -!- nikomo [~quassel@nikomo.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-05-24T14:49:59 < dongs> you can pull up properties for line/etc
2019-05-24T14:50:02 < dongs> and it has start/end XY
2019-05-24T14:50:06 < dongs> but those are readonly values...
2019-05-24T14:50:07 < dongs> wtf
2019-05-24T14:50:15 < veverak> wat
2019-05-24T14:50:35 < veverak> somebody failed at UX I see
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2019-05-24T14:51:17 < dongs> https://www.emachineshop.com/help-2d-drawing/#numeric-values in their HELP they have it
2019-05-24T14:51:20 < dongs> for lines
2019-05-24T14:51:30 < Cracki> looks like win95
2019-05-24T14:52:19 < Cracki> maybe the nephew of the boss overdosed on something back in the 90s and since then the program has been on life support with shims and emulation
2019-05-24T14:52:40 < Cracki> (such programs are always written by the nephew of the boss)
2019-05-24T14:53:01 < dongs> absolutely
2019-05-24T14:54:09 < Cracki> our multi tenant house has a hot water pipe for showering. the owner doesn't live here, but he gets to fuck with the dials of the heater in the basement. he _never_ has to endure its oscillating behavior and nobody else would nag him about it.
2019-05-24T14:54:10 < veverak> maybe use better cad?
2019-05-24T14:54:15 < dongs> like what, lol
2019-05-24T14:54:19 < Cracki> dogfooding. it saves lives.
2019-05-24T14:54:32 < Cracki> autodesk mebbeh
2019-05-24T14:54:35 < dongs> nah
2019-05-24T14:54:40 < veverak> qcad seems better than this
2019-05-24T14:54:46 < Cracki> freecad *g*
2019-05-24T14:54:50 < Cracki> inkscape
2019-05-24T14:54:52 < dongs> already rejected freecad
2019-05-24T14:54:55 < dongs> it was garbage
2019-05-24T14:54:58 < dongs> non-working
2019-05-24T14:55:03 < Cracki> vim and straight up svg
2019-05-24T14:55:04 < dongs> it couldnt evne open the DXF file that im fucking with
2019-05-24T14:55:05 < veverak> freecad makes me wanna kill myself
2019-05-24T14:55:12 < Cracki> nothing open can open dxf
2019-05-24T14:55:13 < qyx> oh btw I forgot, inkscape can open dxf
2019-05-24T14:55:13 < veverak> (sometimes)
2019-05-24T14:55:16 < veverak> anyway
2019-05-24T14:55:21 < veverak> QCad usually just worked
2019-05-24T14:55:21 < Cracki> it's a lie. that's an import afaik
2019-05-24T14:55:30 < dongs> oh, qcad looks neat
2019-05-24T14:55:31 < dongs> lets see
2019-05-24T14:55:34 < dongs> has portable.exe?
2019-05-24T14:55:39 < Steffanx> I just dragged it in. It worked in inkscape
2019-05-24T14:55:39 < veverak> dunno
2019-05-24T14:55:41  * veverak uses linuk
2019-05-24T14:55:46 < Cracki> sounds like qt, so it'll probably bring 50 megs of dlls
2019-05-24T14:55:46 < dongs> installer.msi..
2019-05-24T14:55:48 < dongs> fuck off lmao
2019-05-24T14:55:49 < Steffanx> *lunix
2019-05-24T14:56:03 < dongs> wait waht
2019-05-24T14:56:03 < dongs> trial?
2019-05-24T14:56:04 < Steffanx> Don't you have a vm for sores songs?
2019-05-24T14:56:06 < dongs> the fuck is this shit
2019-05-24T14:56:12 < Steffanx> Damn it. Autofail
2019-05-24T14:56:18 < veverak> trial?
2019-05-24T14:56:27 < dongs> https://www.qcad.org/en/qcad-downloads-trial
2019-05-24T14:56:50 < veverak> wat
2019-05-24T14:56:53 < veverak> what fuckery is this
2019-05-24T14:57:01 < dongs> If you are looking for the free open source QCAD Community Edition, you can download the trial version for your platform (see above) and then remove the QCAD Professional add-on running in trial mode (click Remove in the Trial widget and follow on screen instructions).
2019-05-24T14:57:08 < dongs> lul
2019-05-24T14:57:14 < veverak> that was not there last time
2019-05-24T14:57:38 < veverak> ah
2019-05-24T14:57:51 < veverak> "community is open, enterprise for money" model
2019-05-24T15:00:04 < dongs> their download servers are disgustingly slow
2019-05-24T15:00:12 < dongs> 80megs .zip taking like over a minute to get
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2019-05-24T15:03:16 < dongs> haha every startup has a 10second countdown nag dialog
2019-05-24T15:03:18 < dongs> thank you for trying 
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2019-05-24T15:11:22 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyoqhJB_E9Q
2019-05-24T15:20:29 < karlp> veverak: qcad had some big community split over this. sounded like a trainwreck.
2019-05-24T15:22:41 < jpa-> you can always use librecad with its slightly worse icons
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2019-05-24T15:31:08 < veverak> karlp: ah, I see
2019-05-24T15:31:23 < zyp> 13:44:40 < qyx> it would not
2019-05-24T15:31:27 < zyp> curious why
2019-05-24T15:32:00 < zyp> I tested it, so you're right, but I don't see why that necessarily have to be the case
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2019-05-24T15:34:21 < qyx> because broadcasts are not routed
2019-05-24T15:34:37 < qyx> otherwise you would have a single internet wide broadcast domain
2019-05-24T15:35:48 < qyx> multicast is usually not routed too
2019-05-24T15:36:08 < qyx> also you should do igmp with multicast
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2019-05-24T15:41:54 < zyp> but this is not 255.255.255.255, but subnet broadcast towards a particular subnet
2019-05-24T15:42:01 < zyp> sent from outside the subnet
2019-05-24T15:42:46 < zyp> I don't see any technical reasons why it wouldn't work, apart from routers normally being configured to not allow it
2019-05-24T15:44:59 < qyx> hm yeah
2019-05-24T15:45:48 < qyx> technically it should work
2019-05-24T15:49:57 < Thorn> what about upnp / bonjour
2019-05-24T15:50:46 < zyp> I don't want anything noisy on the other side of the router
2019-05-24T15:51:35 < zyp> that's the whole point of adding a router to the mix
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2019-05-24T16:01:53 < zyp> rfc919 seems to indicate that the whole purpose of subnet broadcast addrs are to be able to target remote networks
2019-05-24T16:01:56 < zyp> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc919
2019-05-24T16:02:17 < zyp> so I guess it's just security reasons that keeps it turned off by default
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2019-05-24T16:36:20 < dongs> jpa-: librecad didnt have a portable .exe
2019-05-24T16:36:26 < dongs> and i wasnt gonna install opensores aids
2019-05-24T16:42:22 < zyp> heh, support for turning on broadcast forwarding was added to linux 4.19
2019-05-24T16:42:23 < zyp> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/5cbf777cfdf6e5a7b7149006e4881a255da78fdd
2019-05-24T16:43:14 < qyx> interesting
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2019-05-24T17:02:04 < yaqwsx> Hi guys, I am using SPI on STM32G0 in the slave mode. I have setup hardware management of the NSS pin. However, it does not seem to work. I receive 8 bit bytes. However, suppose master starts a transaction by pulling NSS low, shifts only 7 bits and then ends the transaction. Naturally, I receive no character. However, in the next transaction, after a single bit shifted in, I receive a byte - it seems like the NSS pin does not reset the internal shift 
2019-05-24T17:02:04 < yaqwsx> registers. Is there a way I can reset them manually?
2019-05-24T17:03:15 < zyp> sounds weird, I'd expect it to reset
2019-05-24T17:03:23 < zyp> and no, as far as I know there's no way to do it manually
2019-05-24T17:05:35 < qyx> there was some bit to reset it
2019-05-24T17:05:39 < qyx> SPE or what
2019-05-24T17:05:49 < qyx> but I would expect it to be reset too
2019-05-24T17:06:03 < zyp> ah, yeah, resetting the interface should naturally reset it
2019-05-24T17:07:10 < zyp> okay, I figured out how to get around the directed broadcast forwarding limitation
2019-05-24T17:07:38 < zyp> I can just add a static ARP entry to ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff for an ip to the router and use that as a broadcast addr
2019-05-24T17:07:56 < zyp> and as long as the kernel doesn't think the ip is a broadcast, that'll work
2019-05-24T17:08:15 < zyp> i.e. I can just set the router to work with a /13 instead of a /14 and ignore the top half
2019-05-24T17:15:04 < kakimir> last day at works
2019-05-24T17:18:00 < qyx> zyp: in the lack of other reasonable activities, you could implement profinet's discovery and stuff!
2019-05-24T17:18:19 < zyp> I don't wanna learn profinet :)
2019-05-24T17:18:56 < zyp> we're using a gateway to interface towards profinet stuff so we don't have to touch it :p
2019-05-24T17:19:39 < zyp> anyway, I've figured out a workable solution for now
2019-05-24T17:20:04 < Steffanx> Should learn foundation fieldbus instead. 
2019-05-24T17:21:15 < zyp> I'm gonna use the 10.240.0.0/14 prefix for my devices, adding type<<16 and serial<<0
2019-05-24T17:21:36 < zyp> so type 1 serial 1 is 10.241.0.1 and type 2 serial 256 is 10.242.1.0
2019-05-24T17:22:23 < zyp> and then I just set prefix /13 on the router and static arp for 10.243.255.255
2019-05-24T17:23:34 < zyp> might expand it up to allow more types while I'm at it, but this should be good enough for a while
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2019-05-24T19:19:03 < englishman> kakimir: congrats
2019-05-24T19:22:03 < kakimir> sending production files and documenting one project I didn't finish
2019-05-24T19:29:53 < Steffanx> Last day kakimir ? Leaving?
2019-05-24T19:30:28 < Steffanx> New job?
2019-05-24T19:30:33 < Steffanx> Weekend?
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2019-05-24T19:53:05 < kakimir> last day at current job
2019-05-24T19:53:18 < kakimir> actually I come tommorrow to collect all my components, tools etc.
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2019-05-24T20:10:04 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/C-V1uXeyGmg
2019-05-24T20:23:49 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/WC6tjcDOShU
2019-05-24T20:23:50 < bitmask> I like this guy
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2019-05-24T20:57:38 < onio> I am having problem with my Slave I2C interrupt and status register (I2C_ISR). The Dir bit does not get updated I enter the ISR when an I2C master sends RW message. It does however get updated if I set a breakpoint in the ISR any suggestions?
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2019-05-24T20:59:55 < onio> see a snapshot https://imgur.com/a/GxEUIBM
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2019-05-24T21:03:21 < aandrew> onio: pictures don't help much. paste code (pastebin.com)
2019-05-24T21:03:47 < aandrew> I have not worked with the stm32 as the i2c slave, but I have experience with it with PIC. it'll likely be similar, which is to say it'll be a hot mess
2019-05-24T21:04:47 < onio> sorry I forgot to mention that I am STM32H743zi
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2019-05-24T21:18:19 < onio> hi aandrew see code as requested https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/pRrzVVNPBC/
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2019-05-24T21:48:40 < superbia> evening yall
2019-05-24T21:52:12 < kakimir> https://www.pollin.de/p/speicherkarte-1-128-mb-724115
2019-05-24T21:52:19 < kakimir> for your loggers and whatnot
2019-05-24T21:54:18 < superbia> sd cards are so 2000
2019-05-24T21:55:21 < mawk> lowering VDD reduces power consumption right ?
2019-05-24T21:55:37 < mawk> if I adequately lower the core frequency and everything
2019-05-24T21:56:25 < superbia> you must be doing something wrong...
2019-05-24T21:56:43 < mawk> why
2019-05-24T21:57:46 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/VBWby1k
2019-05-24T22:00:09 < aandrew> top pic is inductor-catch diode node when regulator is lightly loaded. bottom pic is with 750mA of load
2019-05-24T22:00:22 < aandrew> I wasn't expecting a square wave
2019-05-24T22:22:44 < Steffanx> Last day at current means you found a better job kakimir ?
2019-05-24T22:23:32 < Steffanx> Secretly you must be my colleague since he left today as well
2019-05-24T22:23:35 < superbia> evening herr Steffanx 
2019-05-24T22:23:41 < Steffanx> Hello mr superbia 
2019-05-24T22:24:00 < superbia> how are you mr
2019-05-24T22:24:10 < aandrew> Steffanx: that'd be kind of funny if you worked wtih a fellow stm32'er and never knew it
2019-05-24T22:24:24 < Steffanx> Fine fine. Hows Helvetia superbia 
2019-05-24T22:24:38 < Steffanx> Haha indeed aandrew 
2019-05-24T22:24:39 < superbia> its great
2019-05-24T22:25:01 < kakimir> but the fellow would know
2019-05-24T22:25:23 < superbia> job got casual.. may need to find new challanges
2019-05-24T22:25:38 < Steffanx> What will you do at the new job mr kakimir ?
2019-05-24T22:25:55 < Steffanx> Same here superbia 
2019-05-24T22:26:21 < superbia> i mean the money is going.. but i don't know where else to look..
2019-05-24T22:27:01 < superbia> Steffanx: expectations vs reality
2019-05-24T22:27:16 < Steffanx> :(
2019-05-24T22:28:20 < superbia> you don't feel like you are smarter than your superiors and coworkers?
2019-05-24T22:28:28 < superbia> especially superiors
2019-05-24T22:30:57 < Steffanx> some sure, my superiors.. no
2019-05-24T22:32:41 < superbia> maybe it's my arrogance?
2019-05-24T22:33:34 < Steffanx> perhaps, could it be a romanian thing? i know another romanian who thinks his stuff is amazing :P
2019-05-24T22:33:42 < superbia> hahahah
2019-05-24T22:35:27 < Steffanx> is it really about being smarter or just more experienced?
2019-05-24T22:36:07 < superbia> or people find waifus before 30 and just focus on their private life
2019-05-24T22:37:06 < superbia> and wife drains the life out of you
2019-05-24T22:37:12 < superbia> creative - life
2019-05-24T22:37:27 < Steffanx> anyway, if you are that good you can find a new job easily right
2019-05-24T22:37:29 < Steffanx> ?
2019-05-24T22:42:26 < kakimir> my stuff was amazing
2019-05-24T22:44:55 < Steffanx> so why leave
2019-05-24T22:45:28 < Steffanx> "none of your business"  ok
2019-05-24T22:45:29 < aandrew> I need to measure the current through the inductor to see if I'm saturating it
2019-05-24T22:45:42 < aandrew> but the way it's getting hot even under moderate load tells me it's saturating
2019-05-24T22:50:46 < superbia> Steffanx: ya, but then again it's good here
2019-05-24T22:51:06 < Steffanx> got a working kb yet?
2019-05-24T22:51:15 < superbia> when I was younger I didn't understand people leaving big tech companies
2019-05-24T22:51:22 < superbia> yea, been working for a couple of months strong
2019-05-24T22:51:38 < superbia> works epic
2019-05-24T22:52:01 < kakimir> my stuff was amazing but for company it was just luxury
2019-05-24T22:52:20 < kakimir> and I knew it from day one
2019-05-24T22:55:08 < kakimir> decision were not made to increase investments in product development
2019-05-24T22:59:14 < superbia> maybe you can work for me
2019-05-24T22:59:39 < kakimir> thanks for offer
2019-05-24T23:00:11 < superbia> when I decide to start a start up
2019-05-24T23:00:18 < superbia> fun projects
2019-05-24T23:01:19 < kakimir> man my latest one was a jem..
2019-05-24T23:01:26 < kakimir> pieces just fall in place
2019-05-24T23:01:41 < Steffanx> gem?
2019-05-24T23:01:45 < kakimir> *gem
2019-05-24T23:01:48 < superbia> but plugs
2019-05-24T23:02:02 < Steffanx> anyway, found a new job or .. just going to look for one mr kakimir.
2019-05-24T23:02:13 < Steffanx> or will you go work for jpa-
2019-05-24T23:02:18 < kakimir> I have something in my sights
2019-05-24T23:02:24 < superbia> esa?
2019-05-24T23:02:34 < kakimir> not quite esa but almost
2019-05-24T23:03:12 < kakimir> I literally sent production firmware and documentation today on my last day
2019-05-24T23:03:28 < kakimir> I felt first time that project was ready
2019-05-24T23:03:40 < kakimir> I don't think I have ever felt that
2019-05-24T23:04:13 < kakimir> absolutelly nothing to do or change
2019-05-24T23:04:19 < kakimir> perfection
2019-05-24T23:04:21 < Steffanx> heh
2019-05-24T23:04:28 < superbia> same here, except I need to refactor code
2019-05-24T23:04:34 < superbia> which will take about 2 weeks
2019-05-24T23:04:53 < kakimir> how can you feel project is ready if you are just about to refactor?
2019-05-24T23:04:56 < zyp> kakimir, been there, done that
2019-05-24T23:05:23 < zyp> last job I had, last thing I did was finish up a pcb layout and send it to fab
2019-05-24T23:05:28 < superbia> https://www.fujiya-peko.co.jp/sweets/drink/nectar.html
2019-05-24T23:05:38 < zyp> two layouts actually, it was a two-board solution
2019-05-24T23:05:47 < zyp> no idea how it turned out
2019-05-24T23:06:41 < kakimir> I spent last 2 weeks testing it
2019-05-24T23:07:29 < zyp> hehe
2019-05-24T23:07:48 < superbia> how you know you are pro
2019-05-24T23:07:56 < superbia> you don't manually test
2019-05-24T23:08:02 < kakimir> 2 days ago added a diagnostic function.. just a little function and it shitted the bet when flash overflowed
2019-05-24T23:08:21 < zyp> kakimir, so did you get laid off or what?
2019-05-24T23:08:28 < kakimir> I left man
2019-05-24T23:08:37 < kakimir> not joking
2019-05-24T23:08:48 < zyp> that bad?
2019-05-24T23:08:56 < kakimir> no
2019-05-24T23:09:04 < zyp> then what
2019-05-24T23:09:05 < kakimir> I didn't feel bad anymore
2019-05-24T23:09:33 < kakimir> just empty
2019-05-24T23:10:00 < zyp> heh
2019-05-24T23:10:03 < superbia> so what are you doing atm
2019-05-24T23:10:18 < kakimir> I will go to repair my motorcycle
2019-05-24T23:10:27 < superbia> sell it
2019-05-24T23:10:34 < kakimir> after I repair it
2019-05-24T23:10:47 < superbia> it's just a matter of time when you will have a collisione
2019-05-24T23:11:20 < zyp> last place I worked, I got laid off for economic reasons, supposedly
2019-05-24T23:11:35 < zyp> apparently didn't help because they still went bankrupt later
2019-05-24T23:12:09 < zyp> didn't really enjoy working there either, so I'm just happy to be out
2019-05-24T23:12:27 < kakimir> I was the first person to leave the company ever.. kinda place people enjoy generally to work in
2019-05-24T23:12:34 < superbia> lies
2019-05-24T23:12:54 < superbia> well I hope you find happiness somewhere else kakimir 
2019-05-24T23:13:07 < kakimir> no man
2019-05-24T23:13:12 < Steffanx> me too. *group hug*
2019-05-24T23:13:13 < kakimir> purpose
2019-05-24T23:13:19 < zyp> that place could probably have been interesting, but I felt they just gave me bullshit projects
2019-05-24T23:13:32 < kakimir> luckily I didn't have that
2019-05-24T23:15:05 < zyp> I kinda miss the place I worked before that
2019-05-24T23:15:44 < zyp> the coworkers, mostly
2019-05-24T23:16:59 < zyp> current place I work has interesting stuff too, but it's a small company and I'm the only real software guy, or electronics guy for that matter
2019-05-24T23:18:10 < kakimir> that shiet is interesting
2019-05-24T23:18:14 < kakimir> what you're doing
2019-05-24T23:18:14 < zyp> it's good in the sense that I have pretty much full authority on the software design as long as I can make it sound good to the boss
2019-05-24T23:18:34 < zyp> but it'd be nice to have some to bounce ideas off, or offload tasks on :p
2019-05-24T23:19:04 < zyp> digital hydraulics
2019-05-24T23:19:35 < superbia> there's no such thing as digital hydraulics
2019-05-24T23:19:52 < kakimir> it's a marketing terminology superbia 
2019-05-24T23:20:00 < superbia> like 5g
2019-05-24T23:20:17 < zyp> superbia, in what sense is there not?
2019-05-24T23:20:34 < superbia> zyp: in superbia world it does not exist
2019-05-24T23:21:27 < kakimir> https://www.valmet.com/media/articles/up-and-running/new-technology/FPDigHydr/
2019-05-24T23:21:49 < superbia> keyword: pump
2019-05-24T23:22:08 < superbia> next keyword PLC
2019-05-24T23:23:47 < Steffanx> is this the business superbia is in? plc "sw"  engineering?
2019-05-24T23:24:34 < superbia> I had like robotics course with Festo equipment when I was in my younger stages of life
2019-05-24T23:25:00 < Steffanx> youre still young
2019-05-24T23:25:24 < superbia> I crossed the 20 mark
2019-05-24T23:25:34 < Steffanx> but you said younger, so.. its still right :P
2019-05-24T23:25:35 < superbia> adult now...
2019-05-24T23:26:09 < superbia> zyp: makes sense... are you playing with Proportional valves too ?
2019-05-24T23:26:33 < zyp> no, just solenoids
2019-05-24T23:27:00 < superbia> This concept of chaining simple solenoids to get 'analogue' seems legit
2019-05-24T23:27:20 < zyp> we're not doing exactly that
2019-05-24T23:27:42 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/HLYHV.jpg <- we've got motors with two solenoids on each sylinder
2019-05-24T23:28:23 < superbia> what did I just see
2019-05-24T23:28:32 < zyp> and a networked controller on each motor, so we only need to run power and ethernet between them
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2019-05-24T23:28:58 < superbia> doesn't look very eu workplace-ish
2019-05-24T23:29:26 < kakimir> by workshop standards that looks ok
2019-05-24T23:29:39 < superbia> in turkey
2019-05-24T23:29:51 < kakimir> I don't see any problem
2019-05-24T23:30:09 < kakimir> whole place it like.. purpose built to play with that motor right
2019-05-24T23:30:58 < kakimir> it's a hydraulic motor not bugatti veyron made in castle in french alps
2019-05-24T23:31:17 < superbia> since when are french alps the best alps
2019-05-24T23:31:29 < kakimir> since never
2019-05-24T23:31:47 < kakimir> but they make the car somewhere in there
2019-05-24T23:32:00 < zyp> yeah, that was just a factory test setup
2019-05-24T23:32:21 < zyp> to have the possibility to hook up each other so they can pull each other around
2019-05-24T23:32:57 < zyp> I'm currently working on another test setup that has six of those motors driving a winch
2019-05-24T23:33:06 < zyp> (along with two electric motors)
2019-05-24T23:34:17 < zyp> electric motors can simulate varying loads (like sea waves), to test shit like heave compensation
2019-05-24T23:34:20 < kakimir> how much your motor beast can put out horsepowers?
2019-05-24T23:34:33 < kakimir> or kilowatts
2019-05-24T23:34:33 < superbia> it's measured in Nm
2019-05-24T23:34:40 < kakimir> yea
2019-05-24T23:34:44 < kakimir> but it also has power
2019-05-24T23:34:53 < zyp> idk
2019-05-24T23:35:10 < kakimir> how big is the pump unit electric motor?
2019-05-24T23:35:36 < zyp> https://www.diinef.com/technology-benefits <- there's some numbers here, but currently we're working with a HMB5 that's smaller
2019-05-24T23:35:59 < zyp> maybe it's like 5/7th of that HMB7, idk.
2019-05-24T23:36:24 < superbia> my candy fell out of my mouth when I saw the human graphic bellow
2019-05-24T23:36:24 < kakimir> 1megawatt pump unit
2019-05-24T23:36:52 < zyp> superbia, haha
2019-05-24T23:37:00 < kakimir> superbia: they projected zyp's superior physique to that
2019-05-24T23:37:01 < zyp> I have had nothing to do with that website :p
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--- Day changed Sat May 25 2019
2019-05-25T00:07:59 < kakimir> man model and programmer
2019-05-25T00:08:31 < superbia> kakimir: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7Ug9rxUEAAUvan.jpg
2019-05-25T00:09:02 < kakimir> ?
2019-05-25T00:09:16 < superbia> evelest
2019-05-25T00:10:24 < Steffanx> Only 7 died so far or something?
2019-05-25T00:10:38 < kakimir> is that like 100 of doctors, lawyers etc.
2019-05-25T00:11:17 < Steffanx> Yes it was 7 this week
2019-05-25T00:11:26 < kakimir> why are they packing in there?
2019-05-25T00:12:40 < kakimir> __attribute__((packed))
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2019-05-25T00:21:58 < Steffanx> Lol
2019-05-25T00:23:06 -!- f3r70rr35f [~fertorres@200.75.3.53] has quit [Quit: leaving]
2019-05-25T00:41:58 < kakimir> it's a human train
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2019-05-25T00:43:12 < Steffanx> More like https://s.s-bol.com/imgbase0/imagebase3/large/FC/5/4/5/8/9200000047088545.jpg kakimir 
2019-05-25T00:47:32 < kakimir> that is like lurencer level posting Steffanx 
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2019-05-25T00:52:25 < Steffanx> Haha yea
2019-05-25T00:53:21 < Steffanx> Except this one was kinda relevant
2019-05-25T00:53:27 < kakimir> :o
2019-05-25T00:53:55 < kakimir> you have a point
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2019-05-25T01:45:15 < englishman> zyp: considering a model3
2019-05-25T01:45:23 < englishman> the 60kWh model is the same price as the kona
2019-05-25T01:45:30 < englishman> and much bigger inside
2019-05-25T01:45:41 < englishman> including the self driving shit
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2019-05-25T02:08:05 < kakimir> sometimes at work I did a thing
2019-05-25T02:08:14 < kakimir> people come talk to me
2019-05-25T02:08:37 < kakimir> I'm just blasting code
2019-05-25T02:09:30 < kakimir> So I turned my head and kept typing while trying to listen what they said
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2019-05-25T02:11:24 < kakimir> Sometimes I looked what is happening outside and left my hands typing.. at least it sometimes felt like automation
2019-05-25T02:11:34 < kakimir> so cool
2019-05-25T02:22:47 < kakimir> TSLA at 190usd
2019-05-25T02:22:56 < kakimir> :/
2019-05-25T02:23:02 < specing> What happened?
2019-05-25T02:23:04 < jly> now what
2019-05-25T02:23:29 < kakimir> idk. idk.
2019-05-25T02:24:05 < jly> suicide?
2019-05-25T02:24:31 < kakimir> nah
2019-05-25T02:25:36 < jly> cool
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2019-05-25T02:28:31 < Cracki> elon musk is handling money in a way that makes these crooks nervous
2019-05-25T02:29:25 < kakimir> make them nervous -> crash the stock -> buy everything
2019-05-25T02:29:28 < kakimir> ?
2019-05-25T02:30:06 < jly> elon should accuse more people of the pedo action
2019-05-25T02:30:31 < kakimir> them feels
2019-05-25T02:32:27 < Cracki> he said something about "cash flow neutral", meaning he's pumping all the money into expanding factory capacity
2019-05-25T02:32:54 < Cracki> that's probably why there was "funding/loaning" too
2019-05-25T02:33:06 < jly>  cool mate
2019-05-25T02:33:59 < kakimir> other companies just close their factories and pump their stock
2019-05-25T02:34:30 < Cracki> dude has a mission and it's not giving blowies to stockholders
2019-05-25T02:34:30 < kakimir> with loan money
2019-05-25T02:35:35 < kakimir> so sad that he is not official voice of tesla anymore.. doesn't have same level of trolling power
2019-05-25T02:35:48 < Cracki> the "funding" I thought of is apparently called "raising capital"
2019-05-25T02:36:08 < Cracki> oh he can troll a lot harder now that people can't fuck him over for it
2019-05-25T02:36:28 < Cracki> he still has the reins, doesn't he
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2019-05-25T02:42:20 < Cracki> bwahahaa! businessinsider writes: No one talks much about this, but for Tesla to ramp up a car company in 2019 means its costs are in 21st-century money, while competitors that have been around for over 100 years can enjoy having built factories in the 1920s or 1950s or 1980s.
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2019-05-25T02:43:36 < Cracki> apples and oranges. a factory from the 80s, the roof and walls, not the assembly lines, can hardly support that kind of high tech
2019-05-25T02:44:25 < Cracki> I wonder when there'll be mandatory peer review for these kinds of articles. they aren't even breaking news
2019-05-25T02:59:12 < englishman> tesla is the only company positioned to make more money off of terrible chinese drivers than insurance companies
2019-05-25T03:00:05 < sync> wut Cracki?
2019-05-25T03:00:27 < sync> the equipment inside does not care about the walls being made in the 50s
2019-05-25T03:00:40 < Cracki> and you missed the point they were trying to make
2019-05-25T03:01:08 < sync> possibly
2019-05-25T03:01:32 < Cracki> the fucking building is just steel beams and corrugated steel, to oversimplify it. that costs very little compared to the shit you need to put INSIDE for production.
2019-05-25T03:01:57 < Cracki> and that dude acted like "old companies" can sit on their old shit and it makes money all on its own
2019-05-25T03:03:19 < Cracki> tesla's chinese gigafactory got built in record time because it's just the roof and walls. they are _going to_ compact the ground next
2019-05-25T03:03:44 < Cracki> if that article I read a few days ago wasn't total rubbish
2019-05-25T03:06:23 < rajkosto> dongs, whats best way of placing mechanical only thing that only has vias, no pads in altium
2019-05-25T03:08:05 < englishman> wut
2019-05-25T03:08:11 < englishman> ask a better question plz
2019-05-25T03:09:54 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-25_02-09-53_HqB1iPO77.png
2019-05-25T03:11:21 < englishman> you should place it with place -> place part
2019-05-25T03:11:26 < englishman> that is my recommendation
2019-05-25T03:11:35 < rajkosto> i mean when making sch symbol it has no pads
2019-05-25T03:11:46 < rajkosto> its not a "part" just something on board
2019-05-25T03:14:00 < englishman> I make those parts and just put a yellow square with no pins in sch
2019-05-25T03:14:16 < englishman> on a mechanical or header sch sheet
2019-05-25T03:14:28 < englishman> or you can put them right on pcb
2019-05-25T03:14:55 < englishman> then enable some option to disable deleting it when you pull from sch
2019-05-25T03:30:59 < kakimir> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Mouser_to_the_Cabinet_Office
2019-05-25T03:35:05 < dongs> rajkosto: is that a shield or something?
2019-05-25T03:35:10 < Cracki> explains the indecision about brexit
2019-05-25T03:35:53 < rajkosto> decided to make the vias pads and assign them to this symbol https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-25_02-35-44_FhxxlZEwI.png
2019-05-25T03:35:53 < dongs> also, why not simply make those 2 things a pad 
2019-05-25T03:35:59 < dongs> yeah
2019-05-25T03:36:14 < rajkosto> isnt a shield https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-25_02-36-14_3qpj7gF0p.png
2019-05-25T03:36:25 < dongs> ah camera lens
2019-05-25T03:36:52 < dongs> how'd you get those vias to have more vias in them, is that an actual option or di you manually add them
2019-05-25T03:37:02 < rajkosto> i just added more vias
2019-05-25T03:37:30 < dongs> anyway how does this matter if its just a mechanical part
2019-05-25T03:37:37 < dongs> why do you "need" pins on it?
2019-05-25T03:37:43 < rajkosto> i dont
2019-05-25T03:37:48 < rajkosto> but i cant just place a pcblib on pcbdoc
2019-05-25T03:37:50 < dongs> you can just make a mechanical box without pins and drop it on schematic
2019-05-25T03:37:52 < rajkosto> without it wanting to erase it
2019-05-25T03:38:02 < dongs> yes, but you can make a box without pins in schlib
2019-05-25T03:38:09 < rajkosto> i added the pads cuz otherwise the vias are assigned to no net
2019-05-25T03:38:11 < dongs> assign a whatever footprint to it (without pads as well)
2019-05-25T03:38:12 < englishman> why dont you do as I said then
2019-05-25T03:38:14 < rajkosto> and i cant connect them to gnd
2019-05-25T03:38:29 < dongs> ah yeah if you want them assigned to gnd sure
2019-05-25T03:38:36 < dongs> also you know you could just call BOTH pads same
2019-05-25T03:38:40 < dongs> like MH or M1 or whatever
2019-05-25T03:38:44 < dongs> and then you only need one pin?
2019-05-25T03:38:53 < rajkosto> meh theres 2 pads 
2019-05-25T03:40:18 < dongs> should i upgrade my windows to 1903
2019-05-25T03:40:25 < rajkosto> n
2019-05-25T03:40:41 < dongs> why not lol
2019-05-25T03:40:58 < rajkosto> downgrade to 8.1
2019-05-25T03:41:18 < englishman> /ignoring raj
2019-05-25T03:41:34 < rajkosto> its the only way to fly
2019-05-25T03:41:40 < dongs> 8.1 is disgusting
2019-05-25T03:41:45 < rajkosto> not with start8
2019-05-25T03:41:51 < rajkosto> which you need to use on 10 anyway
2019-05-25T03:41:59 < dongs> i actually *LIKE* win > 7 start panel
2019-05-25T03:42:08 < dongs> hierarchical start menu bullshit needed to go years ago
2019-05-25T03:42:14 < englishman> it only got better in 10
2019-05-25T03:42:16 < dongs> yeah
2019-05-25T03:42:27 < rajkosto> what is wrong with you
2019-05-25T03:42:58 < dongs> why would i go through like 20 levels of shit when i can press start and click altium.exe
2019-05-25T03:43:01 < dongs> which is pinned
2019-05-25T03:43:05 < Cracki> who even uses the menu when there's a search function that gives you everything
2019-05-25T03:43:05 < karlp> (if you want them connected to ground, you _have_ pins)
2019-05-25T03:43:16 < karlp> they're not "mechanical only" if you actually want them connected... duh
2019-05-25T03:43:18 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-25_02-43-18_x9Sq0J5lH.png
2019-05-25T03:43:20 < Cracki> win, a, enter :>
2019-05-25T03:43:40 < rajkosto> win8 made the start menu a horrible context-switching fullscreen disaster
2019-05-25T03:43:50 < rajkosto> win10 promised to bring the win7 one back but they did it with a horrible twist of terrible search
2019-05-25T03:43:53 < dongs> yes, i turn win10 one in fullscreen mode too
2019-05-25T03:44:11 < rajkosto> in 1803 the usability got a bit better because you were finally given the right click menu options and slightly less waste of space with whitespace
2019-05-25T03:44:12 < dongs> and when i press it, there's 3 buttons there
2019-05-25T03:44:12 < Cracki> I'm waiting for windows XI
2019-05-25T03:44:14 < rajkosto> but search still sucks
2019-05-25T03:44:17 < dongs> keil, altium, vstudio
2019-05-25T03:44:19 < dongs> and a weather widget
2019-05-25T03:44:35 < rajkosto> why would you want your entire view to be obscured with a fullscreen thing just for 3 options ?
2019-05-25T03:44:53 < Cracki> btw, sumatra pdf, for when you want PDFs opening instantly and you also want working thumbnail previews
2019-05-25T03:44:58 < dongs> what would it be obscuring?
2019-05-25T03:45:05 < rajkosto> whatever you were working on
2019-05-25T03:45:06 < Cracki> I still keep acrobat around for ocr and such
2019-05-25T03:45:44 < dongs> raj, i dont see how that would affect anything.
2019-05-25T03:45:58 < dongs> i mean, if im opening a start menu to start something, i probasbly dont care about the context??
2019-05-25T03:46:22 < rajkosto> even just the brightness change is jarring
2019-05-25T03:46:34 < dongs> waht brightness change
2019-05-25T03:46:37 < dongs> my background is the win2k blue
2019-05-25T03:46:43 < dongs> start comes up like a shade or 2 darker
2019-05-25T03:46:46 < dongs> looks almost same to me
2019-05-25T03:46:50 < rajkosto> not background
2019-05-25T03:46:51 < rajkosto> altium
2019-05-25T03:46:59 < dongs> my altium is white theme.
2019-05-25T03:47:05 < dongs> unlike your niggerfaggot screenshot
2019-05-25T03:47:15 < dongs> and, altium is on one monitor, start opens on the other one
2019-05-25T03:47:24 < rajkosto> so you have to move your head as well
2019-05-25T03:47:27 < rajkosto> even better
2019-05-25T03:47:40 < dongs> imagine being able to move head
2019-05-25T03:50:48 < rajkosto> i cant im quadraplegic
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2019-05-25T03:54:42 < englishman> I live in Washington state and project my monitor on a window so I can have the actual windows desktop photo as my background
2019-05-25T04:13:00 < dongs> fuck
2019-05-25T04:13:03  * jly  
2019-05-25T04:13:07 < dongs> why does altinigger take over .v files
2019-05-25T04:13:18 < dongs> where the fuck can i even edit association of that shit
2019-05-25T04:14:00 < Cracki> altium once wanted to be(come) a verilog thing
2019-05-25T04:14:14 < jly> oh yeah lol
2019-05-25T04:14:45 < dongs> then it became a retarded fucking docked sidebars interface
2019-05-25T04:14:50 < Cracki> prefs -> system -> file types
2019-05-25T04:14:53 < Cracki> that might work
2019-05-25T04:15:02 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/gyUnMSb
2019-05-25T04:15:09 < aandrew> dongs: ^^
2019-05-25T04:15:12 < aandrew> help a brother out
2019-05-25T04:15:16 < Cracki> ringy
2019-05-25T04:15:20 < Cracki> wat r u charging
2019-05-25T04:15:22 < aandrew> that is the current through an inductor on a switcher
2019-05-25T04:15:26 < englishman> https://sumahoinfo.com/post-32481
2019-05-25T04:15:35 < aandrew> ch1/2 are either end of a 1R in series with a 2.2uH inductor
2019-05-25T04:15:36 < jly> We're up to 13 this month
2019-05-25T04:15:47 < aandrew> it's ringy and peaky because I've got a shitty long ground tail on the probes
2019-05-25T04:15:59 < aandrew> that does NOT look like discontinuous mode conduction to me
2019-05-25T04:16:15 < dongs> englishman: lol
2019-05-25T04:17:29 < dongs> Cracki: lul, not ther
2019-05-25T04:17:35 < aandrew> that's a ~1.5V ramp across the 1R which means 1.5A charge/discharge
2019-05-25T04:17:38 < dongs> the association must have been stolen back when tehy had FPGA shit
2019-05-25T04:17:42 < aandrew> right?
2019-05-25T04:17:52 < dongs> aandrew: i donno i never look at switchers on scope, cuz they just work for me
2019-05-25T04:17:56 < Cracki> you haven't noticed that long?
2019-05-25T04:18:03 < aandrew> dongs: it's woring
2019-05-25T04:18:04 < aandrew> working
2019-05-25T04:18:11 < aandrew> but the inductors get fucking hot 
2019-05-25T04:18:20 < aandrew> that's usually indicative of saturation
2019-05-25T04:18:21 < Cracki> right click file, open with, pick, select new default
2019-05-25T04:18:22 < dongs> well, i had a random .v on desktop and i clicked it and it opened altifuck and lost all my workspace projects
2019-05-25T04:18:30 < Cracki> lol
2019-05-25T04:19:00 < Cracki> very pro soft
2019-05-25T04:19:19 < dongs> yaman
2019-05-25T04:20:32 < aandrew> this 1W 1R is also getting quite toasty so I suspect that current rating is real
2019-05-25T04:20:34 < aandrew> reading rather
2019-05-25T04:27:43 < jly> ty
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2019-05-25T04:43:35 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/oI9vZ8g
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2019-05-25T04:48:43 < aandrew> these inductors have really low resistance (2.2uH is 11.3mOhm) and are rated/saturate at 7.5A. datasheet says 2A should only cause a few degree rise, I'm sitting at more than 25C rise over ambient
2019-05-25T04:49:03 < rajkosto> you broke it
2019-05-25T04:49:10 < rajkosto> i managed to break mine too
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2019-05-25T04:49:37 < rajkosto> then it still works for a DC2DC converter (just like a pure wire does) but it makes the DC2DC heat up immensely (working more like a LDO)
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2019-05-25T04:50:11 < aandrew> heh
2019-05-25T04:51:30 < rajkosto> i overheated mine which caused the enamel to melt or something i dunno, i was real careful with them after that
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2019-05-25T05:21:24 < rajkosto> you guys heard the latest in stm32 technology ? https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1BiWSL3DqK1RjSZSyq6yxEVXa1.jpg
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2019-05-25T05:47:40 < englishman> latest in 2004 era smt microusb that rips off when you breathe on it taking every trace with it
2019-05-25T05:49:26 < dongs> lol retarded microusb
2019-05-25T05:51:41 < mawk> CS32
2019-05-25T05:51:50 < mawk> exquisite and convenient
2019-05-25T05:52:26 < mawk> they didn't even bother making their own board picture, it's still stm32 on it
2019-05-25T05:53:10 < mawk> I had to resolder twice the microusb on a bluepill board
2019-05-25T05:53:30 < dongs> whats CS32?
2019-05-25T05:53:31 < rajkosto> what do you mean their own board picture
2019-05-25T05:53:31 < dongs> another STM clone?
2019-05-25T05:53:38 < rajkosto> no its just the bluepill
2019-05-25T05:53:51 < rajkosto> i like how they didnt break off the remainder of the board near the usb port tho
2019-05-25T05:54:00 < dongs> haha
2019-05-25T05:54:06 < mawk> why do they call it CS32F103C8T6 if it's just the bluepill
2019-05-25T05:54:14 < mawk> it sounds like a STM clone
2019-05-25T05:54:16 < rajkosto> yes
2019-05-25T05:54:31 < rajkosto> the bluepill is now using some cs32 chip who knows
2019-05-25T05:54:31 < englishman> they likely have no idea what the fuck it is and dont give a shit
2019-05-25T05:54:35 < dongs> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/cloner_trash/32952782064.html
2019-05-25T05:54:39 < dongs> actually looks like another clone
2019-05-25T05:55:01 < mawk> lol they stole ST datasheet
2019-05-25T05:55:39 < englishman> 316 orders
2019-05-25T05:55:59 < mawk> the comments "for some reason the stlink refused to flash"
2019-05-25T05:56:30 < englishman> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Microprocessor-Microcontroller_MindMotion-Microelectronics-MM32F103C8T6_C212243.html
2019-05-25T05:56:31 < dongs> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/UTB8bWiSrVfJXKJkSamHq6zLyVXaj.jpg
2019-05-25T05:56:32 < englishman> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Microprocessor-Microcontroller_Shenzhen-Better-Life-Elec-S-T-BLM32F103C8T6_C90410.html
2019-05-25T05:56:53 < dongs> englishman: lol wow.
2019-05-25T05:57:00 < englishman> with datasheets
2019-05-25T05:57:19 < rajkosto> did it get like 100% cloned 
2019-05-25T05:57:20 < mawk> I thought lcsc was reputable
2019-05-25T05:57:24 < mawk> why are they selling counterfeits
2019-05-25T05:57:39 < englishman> why would you think that
2019-05-25T05:57:58 < mawk> some youtubers are advertising it
2019-05-25T05:58:19 < englishman> lol @ black lives matter 32
2019-05-25T05:59:36 < rajkosto> is someone salvaging old stm32, then re-lasering as cs32
2019-05-25T06:00:24 < mawk> it's not even that much cheaper than stm32
2019-05-25T06:01:48 < rajkosto> i just want one with more sram
2019-05-25T06:02:42 < englishman> then get a better chip
2019-05-25T06:02:48 < rajkosto> nuuuu
2019-05-25T06:03:04 < englishman> have fun running in circles
2019-05-25T06:03:46 < mawk> what do you like about the board rajkosto ?
2019-05-25T06:03:54 < mawk> the fact it's cheap and available on ali ?
2019-05-25T06:03:57 < rajkosto> i dont use the boards
2019-05-25T06:04:04 < rajkosto> just steal the stm32 off them
2019-05-25T06:04:06 < mawk> lol
2019-05-25T06:04:15 < rajkosto> as for some reason the boards arrive way faster than anything off ali
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2019-05-25T06:04:56 < rajkosto> aww you cant OC the cs32 as well
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2019-05-25T06:38:57 < rajkosto> dongs, so how much does that pmos you linked leak when the gate is at 3.3v and source is at 5v
2019-05-25T06:39:57 < dongs> no idea i never measured it. i just use them to turn shit on
2019-05-25T06:39:59 < dongs> and it works
2019-05-25T06:40:09 < rajkosto> its gonna leak tho
2019-05-25T06:40:23 < rajkosto> -1.8V is significant
2019-05-25T06:44:57 < rajkosto> you only used it to turn 3.3v shit on ?
2019-05-25T06:45:23 < dongs> yes
2019-05-25T06:45:29 < rajkosto> ok i know what i will do
2019-05-25T06:45:46 < dongs> i think if y ou wanna do 5V shit you need to add a pnp or wahtever to do the fet gate
2019-05-25T06:45:47 < rajkosto> open drain the gate
2019-05-25T06:45:56 < rajkosto> pullup to 5V
2019-05-25T06:46:03 < dongs> ah
2019-05-25T06:46:10 < dongs> i guess that works
2019-05-25T06:46:38 < rajkosto> yes its going to be idle 99.9999% of the time
2019-05-25T06:46:42 < rajkosto> dont want leaks
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2019-05-25T08:30:39 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-25_07-30-34_pXx9D0We9.png its strange how 3535 is taller than 5050
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2019-05-25T09:18:04 < rajkosto> dongs, https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-25_08-18-01_ZWUbqJxNl.png
2019-05-25T09:18:31 < rajkosto> dont copy paste from its datasheet lol
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2019-05-25T13:14:19 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MARsW26KXQg kaki musics
2019-05-25T13:22:17 < jly> sounds all fucked up
2019-05-25T13:25:30 < Steffanx> ^ 
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2019-05-25T14:35:01 < Thorn> >they needed someone with a degree meeting specific requirements to be the named responsible individual on a CE mark application
2019-05-25T14:35:21 < Thorn> is that an actual requirement?
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2019-05-25T15:22:21 < Steffanx> sounds all fucked up
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2019-05-25T16:17:45 < bitmask> hillo
2019-05-25T16:34:41 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:6ba6:a5e2:cb4f:18a0:56d1] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2019-05-25T16:36:27 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/0g8lANs6zpQ
2019-05-25T16:36:28 < bitmask> man this guy
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2019-05-25T16:42:02 < dongs> nice
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2019-05-25T17:46:02 < Thorn> is it true that you can get arrested in Texas for owning a chemical flask?
2019-05-25T17:48:47 < catphish> i think that depends on your definition of "get arrested"
2019-05-25T17:50:03 < catphish> obviously it's not illegal to own a lab flask, but that's not to say that on a particular day, a particular police officer might decide to arrest you on suspicion of some crime because he finds it suspicious
2019-05-25T17:51:41 < catphish> actually, i take it back, it actually is illegal in texas to have one without a licence, but only in a school, which makes this an even more bizarre regulation
2019-05-25T17:51:43 < catphish> http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/reports/PDF/1210.PDF
2019-05-25T17:52:39 < catphish> i guess that's where they're most likely to get stolen from
2019-05-25T18:05:17 < Rickta59> if you make the flash look like a gun you are fine
2019-05-25T18:05:25 < Rickta59> flask
2019-05-25T18:12:55 -!- freakuency [~freakuenc@h-82-196-109-72.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2019-05-25T18:15:09 < catphish> lol
2019-05-25T18:35:37 < Thorn> is C0H better than C0G?
2019-05-25T18:37:18 < Thorn> nope, H=60ppm/K, G=30ppm/K
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2019-05-25T19:02:57 < Thorn> https://www.facebook.com/STM32/photos/a.150152205025171/2978477962192567/?type=3&theater
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2019-05-25T19:31:56 < Steffanx> Isn't F3 already a "mixed signal" stm32 Thorn ?
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2019-05-25T19:44:32 < Steffanx>  > fake news
2019-05-25T19:45:15 < kakimir> ##fakenews32
2019-05-25T19:48:43 < Steffanx> Hi kakimir, hows the day
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2019-05-25T20:35:44 < bitmask> All of my underwear is falling apart, guess I'm going commando soon.  cause theres no way I'm wasting money on it :P
2019-05-25T20:36:58 < Steffanx> thank you for this information
2019-05-25T20:37:09 < Steffanx> doesnt your gf buy you new underwear?
2019-05-25T20:37:11 < bitmask> anytime
2019-05-25T20:37:41 < bitmask> she probably will, I wasn't really being serious, just thought it was a nice thing to share
2019-05-25T20:38:08 < Steffanx> still job hunting?
2019-05-25T20:38:12 < bitmask> yup
2019-05-25T20:38:30 < bitmask> been slacking lately, lost motivation, I'm getting it back though
2019-05-25T20:39:00 < rmaw> anyone used -fPIE to build an image for stm32?
2019-05-25T20:40:03 < rmaw> I'm wondering how I can reference the location of the .got to copy it to its final location in ram when all the symbols from the linekr script need the .got 
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2019-05-25T20:50:21 < mawk> why are you doing this rmaw ?
2019-05-25T20:50:40 < mawk> dynamic linking with single user systems isn't especially useful
2019-05-25T20:50:50 < mawk> it's for having ASLR ?
2019-05-25T20:51:25 < mawk> also to reference stuff from code you use define symbols in the linker script
2019-05-25T20:51:31 < mawk> define symbol for LMA, for VMA
2019-05-25T20:51:36 < mawk> copy from LMA to VMA in init code
2019-05-25T20:54:03 < rmaw> no, really just so I can load a firmware anywhere
2019-05-25T20:54:36 < mawk> I see
2019-05-25T20:54:40 < rmaw> mawk, problem is when I load a symbol that exists in the linker 
2019-05-25T20:54:44 < rmaw> it goes via the .got
2019-05-25T20:54:55 < rmaw> which is not yet loaded into RAM
2019-05-25T20:55:10 < mawk> yes you should move the got into RAM at init
2019-05-25T20:55:20 < mawk> around the place you call libc constructors if you have any
2019-05-25T20:55:26 < mawk> or C++ constructors for that matter
2019-05-25T20:55:34 < rmaw> well I was going to do it first thing on reset
2019-05-25T20:55:42 < mawk> yes
2019-05-25T20:56:08 < rmaw> problem is, for instace, ldr r1,= _somelinkersymbol 
2019-05-25T20:56:28 < mawk> but you should have a got if you don't access external symbols
2019-05-25T20:56:33 < mawk> or I miss something about your setup
2019-05-25T20:56:40 < mawk> well you may have one but mostly empty
2019-05-25T20:56:41 < rmaw> well it generates one for any global variables
2019-05-25T20:56:50 < rmaw> and all access to .data seems to go through it
2019-05-25T20:57:00 < mawk> ah yes
2019-05-25T20:57:03 < mawk> arm is 32 bits
2019-05-25T20:57:14 < mawk> I was thinking of 64 bits PIC
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2019-05-25T20:57:21 < mawk> yeah you don't avoid that here
2019-05-25T20:57:29 < mawk> and it's a somewhat huge performance penalty also
2019-05-25T20:57:39 < __rmaw> well one indirection no ?
2019-05-25T20:57:41 < mawk> which is why it's not enabled by default in desktop 32 bits compilers
2019-05-25T20:57:42 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-25T20:57:48 < __rmaw> I can live with that
2019-05-25T20:58:15 < __rmaw> no, but most .so seem to be compiled with -fPIC
2019-05-25T20:58:30 < mawk> yes it's mandatory for shared objects
2019-05-25T20:59:05 < __rmaw> I can live with an indirection, if it makes placement of fw easier
2019-05-25T21:01:13 < mawk> you have other solutions I think
2019-05-25T21:01:28 < mawk> linux uses objects, not shared objects, for its loadable modules
2019-05-25T21:01:37 < mawk> you have to fill the relocations at startup time once and for all, then it's done
2019-05-25T21:01:42 < mawk> no penalty at execution time
2019-05-25T21:02:18 < mawk> so you have to implement a ELF loader in startup code, it's a bit more work but you may have plenty of example code online for this
2019-05-25T21:02:27 < mawk> I did it for the sample x86_64 kernel I did
2019-05-25T21:04:06 < __rmaw> ok, I'll take a look into that
2019-05-25T21:04:30 < __rmaw> but looking at this, with -fPIE I think it will just work 
2019-05-25T21:04:37 < __rmaw> if the .got is in the correct ram location
2019-05-25T21:04:58 < mawk> yes it will work
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2019-05-25T23:08:25 < qyx> __rmaw: whoa me wanna
2019-05-25T23:09:09 < qyx> I tried that in the past but it led to nowhere
2019-05-25T23:09:44 < qyx> I mean simple -fPIC is not enough to be able to place firmware at arbitrary location
2019-05-25T23:10:10 < qyx> and I didn't investigate it furthee
2019-05-25T23:11:33 < qyx> as I understand it, .data and .bss don't neet relocations in this setup
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2019-05-25T23:22:15 < superbia> evening elite
2019-05-25T23:29:43 < Steffanx> Hi there
2019-05-25T23:30:20 < superbia> productive day..
2019-05-25T23:33:12 < Steffanx> Yes?
2019-05-25T23:33:19 < superbia> you?
2019-05-25T23:33:39 < Steffanx> Hows the tailored suit?
2019-05-25T23:33:54 < superbia> I am still deciding on the maker
2019-05-25T23:34:00 < Steffanx> Oh not so productive, but who cares.. its saturday
2019-05-25T23:34:57 < superbia> I am doing research on fabrics, suits, style etc.
2019-05-25T23:35:12 < superbia> the suits terminology is pretty extensive
2019-05-25T23:35:59 < superbia> also looking what others wear https://www.instagram.com/ygatti/
2019-05-25T23:36:18 < ub|k> does anyone happen to know of some stm32 example code for am ssd1306 oled display (SPI)?
2019-05-25T23:36:22 < ub|k> i can only find i2c
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2019-05-25T23:39:52 < superbia> ub|k: did you try looking on shithub
2019-05-25T23:40:12 < rajkosto> hey innovators
2019-05-25T23:40:43 < superbia> hello kebab
2019-05-25T23:41:02 < superbia> s/kebab/remove\ kebab
2019-05-25T23:41:03 < ub|k> superbia: i did
2019-05-25T23:41:18 < Steffanx> Damn most of it is f*ckinf awful superbia 
2019-05-25T23:41:27 < Steffanx> g*
2019-05-25T23:41:37 < superbia> Steffanx: you have not yet reached the peak of sartorial education
2019-05-25T23:41:50 < superbia> this is the swiss style..
2019-05-25T23:42:51 < Steffanx> Ok...
2019-05-25T23:43:56 < Steffanx> :P
2019-05-25T23:44:03 < superbia> https://www.instagram.com/p/BwzojsHn9T0/
2019-05-25T23:44:56 < Steffanx> Does it come with the long grey hair?
2019-05-25T23:45:17 < superbia> https://www.instagram.com/p/BxElW96BsIX/
2019-05-25T23:45:27 < superbia> I can show you many things...
2019-05-25T23:46:52 < Steffanx> That last one needs a watch and a monocle.
2019-05-25T23:48:31 < superbia> also each clothing item you saw is over one thousand money worth
2019-05-25T23:49:10 < Steffanx> Lol
2019-05-25T23:49:20 < superbia> Just for shoes I have about 30 bespoke makers bookmarked
2019-05-25T23:51:23 < rajkosto> bespoke, artisenal
2019-05-25T23:51:51 < superbia> rajkosto: sartorial
2019-05-25T23:59:02 < karlp> kakimir: nice chocie with jain, nice stuff and super cute to boot :)
2019-05-25T23:59:10 < karlp> you've seen her older stuff I presume/hope?
--- Day changed Sun May 26 2019
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2019-05-26T00:04:05 < superbia> what is jain
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2019-05-26T02:15:48 < invzim> soon out of wick, anyone tried this type of dispenser/brand? https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Solder-Suckers_Prokit-s-Industries-DP-033A_C99067.html
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2019-05-26T02:21:28 < mawk> might be ok
2019-05-26T02:21:34 < mawk> but I wonder about the heat conduction to the plastic
2019-05-26T02:21:40 < mawk> I'd fear it melts
2019-05-26T02:21:50 < mawk> also it doesn't have flux in it
2019-05-26T02:22:16 < rajkosto> wick without flux is useless
2019-05-26T02:22:30 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-26T02:22:40 < mawk> I have a pot of solid flux I melt with iron or hot air, and dip wick in it
2019-05-26T02:22:45 < rajkosto> ugh
2019-05-26T02:22:50 < mawk> lol
2019-05-26T02:22:55 < specing> :O
2019-05-26T02:23:35 < invzim> I have louis jizz on tap
2019-05-26T02:23:58 < rajkosto> the amtech stuff ?
2019-05-26T02:24:07 < invzim> clone from ali, works amazingly well
2019-05-26T02:24:16 < rajkosto> clone from ali is always vaseline for me
2019-05-26T02:24:23 < rajkosto> completely useless
2019-05-26T02:24:28 < rajkosto> which one 
2019-05-26T02:24:39 < invzim> let me check, holdon
2019-05-26T02:25:36 < invzim> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32331668231.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.a92853f6mML5B6
2019-05-26T02:25:58 < rajkosto> HALOGEN SOLDERING FLUX
2019-05-26T02:26:00 < rajkosto> > NO HALOGEN
2019-05-26T02:26:20 < rajkosto> at least its not the "Made in Conofornia" one
2019-05-26T02:27:39 < invzim> worth 4 bucks
2019-05-26T02:28:27 < invzim> now that I got the magic power to import stuff without being butt-raped by DHL I may pick up the real-deal, but still got a full syringe left of this stuff
2019-05-26T02:29:19 < invzim> he, looking at the date of purchase - one syringe has lasted me almost 2 years
2019-05-26T02:30:06 < invzim> and I paid 8.36
2019-05-26T02:30:59 < rajkosto> yeah but was it magic jizz that made QFN just melt and fall into place ?
2019-05-26T02:32:34 < rajkosto> or is it just cancerous vaseline
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2019-05-26T02:35:35 < dongs> im still looking for that flux that reballing faggots use
2019-05-26T02:36:09 < dongs> chinagirl told me she cant ship that shit to me out of china
2019-05-26T02:36:11 < dongs> using any courier
2019-05-26T02:36:14 < dongs> i was like wut
2019-05-26T02:36:18 < rajkosto> invzim, what did you try soldering it
2019-05-26T02:36:40 < invzim> I use it for pretty much everything
2019-05-26T02:36:50 < invzim> touching up crap, qfp's, removing things
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2019-05-26T02:38:31 < invzim> allright, pcbcart delivers again "OK, we applied large discount from our boss, and update the price to your account again, please login and view it.
2019-05-26T02:38:41 < invzim> I'm actually pretty pleased with them
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2019-05-26T02:44:16 < rajkosto> for what
2019-05-26T02:46:05 < invzim> assembly
2019-05-26T02:46:34 < invzim> 158 smd, 5 pth, 41 unique - 435 for qty 100
2019-05-26T02:46:55 < invzim> down from 725 initial quote
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2019-05-26T03:31:54 < Cracki> wew >up to 1 million pcs
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2019-05-26T04:33:26 < pennTeller> Hi guys, I am fairly new to stm32 and am wondering if there is a way to flash my stm32 from ubuntu with only an ftdi chip
2019-05-26T04:34:31 < rajkosto> yesh
2019-05-26T04:36:16 < rajkosto> tie boot0 high and then connect your uart to UARTA RX/TX on stm32 and then start stm32flash on that port
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2019-05-26T05:19:46 < pennTeller> @ra
2019-05-26T05:19:55 < pennTeller> rajkosto: Thanks a lot :)
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2019-05-26T05:38:19 < __rmaw> mawk, thanks, thats worked nicely
2019-05-26T05:48:28 < rajkosto> yo is there like a triple n-mosfet in one package 
2019-05-26T05:48:52 < rajkosto> but still smol
2019-05-26T05:50:53 < rajkosto> i need 3 gate, 3 drain, shared source
2019-05-26T05:53:10 < Thorn> quad is more likely than triple
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2019-05-26T08:09:36 < rajkosto> are there really nicely color-accurate small displays that can be interfaced with easily ?
2019-05-26T08:11:05 < Thorn> afaik most small displays (especially serial) are rgb 565 unless they're designed for smartphones/watches (but those are parallel / lvds / etc)
2019-05-26T08:11:16 < rajkosto> arent they MIPI-DSI
2019-05-26T08:11:44 < rajkosto> i want 8-bit true per channel depth at least
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2019-05-26T08:16:26 < rajkosto> size/resolution doesnt matter
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2019-05-26T08:18:03 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-26_07-17-59_IDQBoHdTt.png very true color
2019-05-26T08:18:08 < rajkosto> perfect upgrade
2019-05-26T08:20:09 < Thorn> st7735 only supports rgb565 afaik
2019-05-26T08:20:14 < rajkosto> i know
2019-05-26T08:20:15 < rajkosto> its old too
2019-05-26T08:20:37 < rajkosto> i have a 7738 or whatever one, which is better, but still not true color
2019-05-26T08:22:09 < rajkosto> i dont think there exist any spi true color LCD controllers
2019-05-26T08:22:15 < rajkosto> i would be fine with parallel btw
2019-05-26T08:22:21 < rajkosto> mipi-dsi would need a driver
2019-05-26T08:26:19 < qyx> get stm32 with dsi
2019-05-26T08:26:30 < rajkosto> sure
2019-05-26T08:27:43 < rajkosto> can it do 1440p
2019-05-26T08:39:38 < rajkosto> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB13UIlX5LxK1Rjy0Ffq6zYdVXaa.jpg cool soldermask art
2019-05-26T08:47:10 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-26_07-47-05_yWMewOB9k.png oh NTHC gamut of course
2019-05-26T08:49:00 < rajkosto> driver board for those costs like 60$ more than the 20$ lcd itself
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2019-05-26T09:56:46 < pennTeller> Hi everyone, what is the right command to compile c code into an stm32 executable and then flash the blue pill via stm32flash?
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2019-05-26T10:23:41 < catphish> pennTeller: the main thing you'll need is arm-none-eabi-gcc
2019-05-26T10:24:14 < catphish> assuming you want to do this without an IDE
2019-05-26T10:24:32 < catphish> you'll also need an appropriate linker script for the chip
2019-05-26T10:25:17 < pennTeller> catphish: I see, do I need that CubeMX  software at all?  Thanks btw 
2019-05-26T10:25:35 < rajkosto> nope
2019-05-26T10:25:39 < catphish> pennTeller: no
2019-05-26T10:25:58 < rajkosto> https://gnu-mcu-eclipse.github.io/ follow setup here or something
2019-05-26T10:26:06 < catphish> but you will want the stmcubefw libraries
2019-05-26T10:26:17 < rajkosto> CMSIS packs is all you need
2019-05-26T10:26:21 < pennTeller> rajkosto: tha ms for that 
2019-05-26T10:26:39 < pennTeller> rajkosto: thanks*
2019-05-26T10:26:50 < catphish> pennTeller: for reference, this is my build script: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9dmBvZxmMs/
2019-05-26T10:27:01 < catphish> i don't claim it's the best way to do this, but works well for me
2019-05-26T10:27:02 < pennTeller> catphish: thanks a lot
2019-05-26T10:27:45 < pennTeller> catphish: did you make that script with a tool or completely manually? 
2019-05-26T10:28:02 < catphish> it uses STM32Cube_FW (header files you can download from ST), GCC (from arm), and linker script (can be found in the header files library too)
2019-05-26T10:28:08 < catphish> pennTeller: manually
2019-05-26T10:28:16 < pennTeller> Damn 
2019-05-26T10:28:24 < pennTeller> I got some reading to do 
2019-05-26T10:28:43 < catphish> there's probably much easier ways to do this
2019-05-26T10:29:42 < pennTeller> catphish: I am trying to use the easiest possible way that does not involve the arduino IDE 
2019-05-26T10:29:43 < yaqwsx> If you want, here is a project using my Cmake to build for STM: https://github.com/paradise-fi/RoFI/tree/control_board_fw/RoFICoM/software/control_board
2019-05-26T10:30:02 < rajkosto> pennTeller, just get the STM Eclipse based IDE then
2019-05-26T10:30:21 < pennTeller> yaqwsx: awesome thank you 
2019-05-26T10:30:28 < rajkosto> STM32CubeIDE
2019-05-26T10:30:50 < pennTeller> rajkosto: oh that sounds like exactly what I need :) 
2019-05-26T10:30:55 < catphish> you could of course just use https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stm32cubeide.html
2019-05-26T10:31:13 < catphish> oh, rajkosto beat me to it :) use that, it handles everything for you
2019-05-26T10:31:27 < pennTeller> Thank you all very much 
2019-05-26T10:31:32 < catphish> good luck
2019-05-26T10:31:53 < pennTeller> Thanks :) will report back on progress 
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2019-05-26T10:56:33 < rajkosto> also yesterday someone said bluepill had fail microusb port
2019-05-26T10:56:38 < rajkosto> whats good cheap as chips common microusb port then
2019-05-26T10:56:47 < rajkosto> i have a slightly nonstandard one
2019-05-26T11:01:19 < dongs> the FCI combo smt/pth one
2019-05-26T11:01:37 < dongs> pads are smt, mounting pegs are pth but can be soldered via paste-in-pad
2019-05-26T11:03:01 < rajkosto> i have this fucker https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-26_10-02-59_8aul3dQtP.png
2019-05-26T11:03:06 < rajkosto> which is slightly off 
2019-05-26T11:07:53 < dongs> slightly off?
2019-05-26T11:08:17 < rajkosto> dimensions wise
2019-05-26T11:11:42 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-26_10-11-41_96E0hwhHd.png
2019-05-26T11:11:55 < dongs> from datasheet or what?
2019-05-26T11:12:00 < rajkosto> nope
2019-05-26T11:12:01 < rajkosto> i had to scan it
2019-05-26T11:12:06 < dongs> ... ?
2019-05-26T11:12:10 < dongs> is this some random chink trash/
2019-05-26T11:12:12 < rajkosto> it didnt match any existing one i could find
2019-05-26T11:13:04 < dongs> sounds ilke random chink trash
2019-05-26T11:13:56 < rajkosto> dunno i got loads of them for cheap and it had PTH mounting which is what i wanted
2019-05-26T11:14:44 < dongs> 10103594-0001LF is waht i used to use that looks similar but the legsd arent on same plane
2019-05-26T11:14:48 < dongs> bottom ones are closer
2019-05-26T11:14:54 < dongs> was there no part# attached to the chink shit?
2019-05-26T11:14:58 < rajkosto> nop
2019-05-26T11:15:31 < rajkosto> it came on a cut tape though not just loose in a bag
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2019-05-26T11:17:30 < rajkosto> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/12-Models-Micro-USB-Connector-5-Pin-usb-Jack-charging-Socket-Female-For-MP3-4-5/32964512414.html i think its number 12 here
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2019-05-26T11:22:19 < rajkosto> it looks similar to the most common amphenol but its not as its pth legs form a rectangle not a rhombus
2019-05-26T11:27:34 < rajkosto> found it https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1FtFkKxWYBuNjy1zkq6xGGpXae.jpg
2019-05-26T11:29:25 < rajkosto> actually amazed how close i got my footprint from a scan without seeing that
2019-05-26T11:34:45 < rajkosto> there is a usb-c version now as well
2019-05-26T11:35:07 < rajkosto> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1oGRBaELrK1Rjy1zbq6AenFXa1.jpg
2019-05-26T11:36:30 < dongs> that only includes the vcc/usb lines haha
2019-05-26T11:36:34 < dongs> not full highspee shit
2019-05-26T11:36:41 < rajkosto> i found full highspeed shit as well
2019-05-26T11:36:44 < rajkosto> but no drawing
2019-05-26T11:37:03 < rajkosto> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1LMq9XA9E3KVjSZFGq6A19XXaT.jpg
2019-05-26T11:38:32 < dongs> i dont like that type
2019-05-26T11:38:39 < dongs> my current usbc product uses mixed dip/smt version
2019-05-26T11:38:53 < rajkosto> i dont like any type with short pins
2019-05-26T11:39:05 < dongs> which is also chinese
2019-05-26T11:39:23 < dongs> USB-C R-S13KG-03
2019-05-26T11:40:13 < karlp> catphish: how does gc-sections work without function-sections/data-sections?
2019-05-26T11:40:25 < karlp> catphish:also, how much perf difference do yo usee with fast-math for your use cases?
2019-05-26T11:41:18 < karlp> rajkosto: I think your issue is that you assume "bluepill" is  single vendor with stable BoM
2019-05-26T11:42:07 < rajkosto> usb3 micro-b are cheap are they trying to get rid of them
2019-05-26T11:42:45 < rajkosto> i liked usb3 micro b cuz you could use normal usb2 cable and run in high speed still
2019-05-26T11:43:59 < rajkosto> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ChengHaoRan-2Pcs-High-speed-data-interface-micro-24pin-USB-C-USB-3-1-Type-C-mother/32944637919.html so dongs u r using this monstrosity
2019-05-26T11:44:11 < dongs> ya
2019-05-26T11:44:19 < rajkosto> all the pins are hidden
2019-05-26T11:44:28 < rajkosto> and the through hole ones can bend, nice
2019-05-26T11:44:28 < dongs> yes, thats fine
2019-05-26T11:44:53 < dongs> that usb-c is $0.4 from chinagirl
2019-05-26T11:45:03 < catphish> karlp: i'm afraid i know nothing about function-sections/data-sections, i can't really remember why i added gc-sections
2019-05-26T11:45:04 < dongs> good enough for a full-conncetor usbc
2019-05-26T11:45:26 < karlp> gc sections removes unused sections from your code to make it smaller
2019-05-26T11:45:32 < catphish> that's what i thought
2019-05-26T11:45:34 < karlp> but it can only remove wwhole sections
2019-05-26T11:45:45 < karlp> you need to tell it to put functions each in their own sections and/or data too.
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2019-05-26T11:45:48 < dongs> im looking for vertical usb-c socket like that one but without highspeed lines
2019-05-26T11:45:53 < dongs> have you come across any, raj
2019-05-26T11:46:07 < karlp> (you could also try -Os, instead of -O2, if you're interested in smaller)
2019-05-26T11:46:18 < catphish> so, with regard to fast-math, this is probably a bit pointless, i added it along with enabling the fast FPU when i was doing tome stuff where i really needed high performance float operations
2019-05-26T11:46:33 < karlp> where do you "enable the fast fpu" ?
2019-05-26T11:46:39 < dongs> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/this_but_dont_need_full_connector/32945420762.html
2019-05-26T11:46:40 < karlp> is that really your entire script?
2019-05-26T11:47:57 < catphish> karlp: yes, it seems this version doesn't have the flag to enable the FPU, but the fast-math stuck around
2019-05-26T11:48:59 < catphish> this is the previous version of this build script, where i use the FPU: https://github.com/catphish/stm32_vfd/blob/master/make.sh
2019-05-26T11:49:03 < catphish> note "-mfloat-abi=hard -mfpu=fpv4-sp-d16"
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2019-05-26T11:49:32 < dongs> imagine only using lunix
2019-05-26T11:49:36 < dongs> and having to write shit like this
2019-05-26T11:49:38 < catphish> but over time, i stopped needing the FPU in other projects, and removed the optimization to keep things simple
2019-05-26T11:49:41 < dongs> to build a project
2019-05-26T11:50:22 < dongs> using or not using FPU is one checkbox away in keil
2019-05-26T11:50:25 < dongs> and it fuckign works
2019-05-26T11:50:31 < dongs> :)
2019-05-26T11:53:57 < catphish> keil is pretty shit though, it can't handle more than 32KB of code, so i think i'll stick with non broken tools
2019-05-26T11:55:42 < catphish> i'm playing with FPGAs this week anyway :)
2019-05-26T11:57:44 < karlp> pennTeller: if you want (yet another) option, https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-template
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2019-05-26T15:51:00 < englishman> my Keil works fine with >32k. sounds like your shir is broken
2019-05-26T15:51:26 < englishman> but that's ok continue to fix your "working lunix"
2019-05-26T15:53:21 < Steffanx> Did a russian pay for it?
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2019-05-26T15:53:48 < englishman> don't think russians can afford keil
2019-05-26T15:54:02 < Steffanx> or do you only use x0 ?
2019-05-26T15:54:07 < englishman> not if a $1500 keithley dmm is too expensive
2019-05-26T15:54:43 < Steffanx> i want a cheaper version without uvision
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2019-05-26T17:21:34 < Thorn> so it turns out that to convert a fractional part of a  fixed number to an integer which when printed will give correct decimal digits all you need to do is (f & 2**N-1 ) * 5**N
2019-05-26T17:23:23 < Thorn> what kind of magic is that, why 5**N
2019-05-26T17:31:47 < Cracki> 10 = 2*5, maybe that
2019-05-26T17:31:52 < Cracki> haven't understood what you wanna do yet
2019-05-26T17:31:55 < Cracki> gief example
2019-05-26T17:32:43 < Cracki> so you have a fixed POINT number, eh, with fixed exponent
2019-05-26T17:33:24 < Thorn> say I have a uint16_t, 8 bits for integer part, 8 for fractional. I want to print it
2019-05-26T17:33:32 < Thorn> integer part is f >> 8
2019-05-26T17:33:48 < Thorn> fractional part is (f & 0xff) * 390625
2019-05-26T17:34:09 < Cracki> let's do it with 1 fractional bit. then you have 0b0 * 5 or 0b1 * 5
2019-05-26T17:34:14 < boddax> fractinal part of 2.25 example is 0,05
2019-05-26T17:34:16 < Thorn> printf("%d.%08d", f >> 8, (f & 0xff) * 390625);
2019-05-26T17:34:21 < Cracki> 2 frac bits: 0b00..0b11 * 25
2019-05-26T17:35:03 < Thorn> correct
2019-05-26T17:35:05 < Cracki> 3 bits: 0..7 * 125
2019-05-26T17:35:14 < Cracki> proof enough for me
2019-05-26T17:36:23 < Thorn> I found it when I noticed that .1 binary = 0.5, .01 binary = 0.25, .001 binary = 0.125, etc.
2019-05-26T17:36:44 < Cracki> (0.0..0.875) * 2**3 * 5**3
2019-05-26T17:36:57 < Cracki> = (0..7) * 5**3
2019-05-26T17:37:07 < Cracki> 2**3 * 5**3 = (10)**3 = 1000
2019-05-26T17:37:17 < Cracki> if you want it mathy without variables
2019-05-26T17:38:23 < Cracki> be careful to print that with leading zeroes. I'm not sure if an 8.8 fixed point needs EIGHT decimal places
2019-05-26T17:38:28 < Cracki> it's probably 3
2019-05-26T17:38:40 < Cracki> but dunno
2019-05-26T17:39:12 < Cracki> hm eight might be righter than 3
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2019-05-26T17:39:59 < Cracki> eight for *un-truncated* representation! ic ic
2019-05-26T17:48:18 < Cracki> I'd hate to introduce division just for truncation to 3-4 significant decimals, but itoa/ftoa do that anyway, afaik
2019-05-26T17:49:50 < Cracki> my bad, they don't, it should only require multiplication
2019-05-26T17:50:00 < Thorn> I need to find a way to round these things
2019-05-26T17:50:22 < Cracki> rounding is hard. I tried to implement that once.
2019-05-26T17:50:42 < Cracki> the carrying from truncation/rounding has several cases you would have to handle
2019-05-26T17:51:05 < Cracki> 9.6 -> 10(.0) adds a leading digit
2019-05-26T17:52:35 < Cracki> I tried to implement fixed number of digits, so a new leading digit would require me to round again, if, for that example, I'd want one mantissa digit. 10e0 would become 1e1 (decimal)
2019-05-26T17:53:01 < Cracki> sprintf and just cutting off might be good enough
2019-05-26T17:53:14 < Cracki> flooring is a valid rounding mode :P
2019-05-26T17:56:54 < mawk> what are you trying to do ?
2019-05-26T17:56:55 < Cracki> rather, no double rounding, but treating the case like 9.6e0 -> 0(.96)e1 -> 1e1
2019-05-26T17:57:05 < Cracki> he, I think, wants to print fixed point numbers
2019-05-26T17:57:19 < Cracki> gcc has some support for that, also in printf I think
2019-05-26T17:57:24 < mawk> ah
2019-05-26T17:57:26 < mawk> yes Thorn Cracki is right
2019-05-26T17:57:30 < mawk> it's just that 5 is 10/2
2019-05-26T17:58:35 < Cracki> [0..1) * 10^N = [0..1) * (2*5)^N = ([0..1) * 2^N) * 5^N
2019-05-26T17:59:31 < Cracki> quite nice to know exactly how many decimal digits are required
2019-05-26T18:03:07 < mawk> well log10(n)+1
2019-05-26T18:03:35 < mawk> which isn't an exact computation
2019-05-26T18:03:47 < mawk> but a simple for loop checking the size is easy
2019-05-26T18:03:57 < mawk> log(n) complexity, a drop of water
2019-05-26T18:07:10 < mawk> by not exact I mean it's a floating point computation if you want to do it directly with a formula
2019-05-26T18:07:35 < mawk> so Thorn you understood ? f = x & (2^N - 1) is the fractional parts, on N bits
2019-05-26T18:08:25 < mawk> the min value is 0, the max value is 2^(N-1), you have 2^N different values
2019-05-26T18:08:28 < Thorn> yeah I'm actually using that to isolate the fractional part
2019-05-26T18:08:51 < mawk> so if you divide by 2^N you get an interval in [0; 1)
2019-05-26T18:08:51 < Thorn> the question was about 5**N specifically
2019-05-26T18:09:06 < mawk> then you multiply by 10^N to get the interval in [0; 10^N)
2019-05-26T18:09:15 < mawk> whether it exactly matches 10^N-1 is a matter of rounding error
2019-05-26T18:09:25 < mawk> so actually you do *10^N/2^N
2019-05-26T18:09:30 < mawk> simplify that into *5^N
2019-05-26T18:09:39 < mawk> given that x^a/y^a = (x/y)^a
2019-05-26T18:09:46 < Cracki> no need to round. it's all good.
2019-05-26T18:09:57 < mawk> yes because it's 5
2019-05-26T18:10:02 < mawk> but I mean it's not exactly that computation
2019-05-26T18:10:10 < mawk> you should divide by 2^N - 1 and multiply by 10^N - 1
2019-05-26T18:10:22 < mawk> which is almost like multiplying by 5^N, it's the same result for these small numbers
2019-05-26T18:10:29 < Cracki> uh
2019-05-26T18:10:38 < Cracki> you're lost in the woods
2019-05-26T18:10:40 < Thorn> why - 1?
2019-05-26T18:10:43 < Cracki> ignore the -1
2019-05-26T18:10:45 < mawk> max value is 2^N-1
2019-05-26T18:10:47 < Cracki> that's nonsense
2019-05-26T18:11:05 < mawk> you map the maximum value in the [0; 2^N) interval to the maximum value in the [0; 10^N) interval
2019-05-26T18:11:06 < Cracki> the fractional part is already bits
2019-05-26T18:11:16 < Cracki> it's not [0..1), it's [0..1) * 2^N
2019-05-26T18:11:19 < Cracki> that is what you have
2019-05-26T18:11:31 < Cracki> and to turn that into [0..1) * 10^N, you multiply by 5^N
2019-05-26T18:12:03 < Cracki> all integer math
2019-05-26T18:12:28 < Cracki> [0..1) * 2^N is the fractional part of the fp number
2019-05-26T18:13:29 < Cracki> that says, for N=3, 0b000..0b111 stand for .0 to .875, and 0*125 to 7*125, which is 0 to 875
2019-05-26T18:14:04 < Cracki> all good
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2019-05-26T18:22:59 < mawk> but why 10^N ?
2019-05-26T18:23:13 < mawk> you don't know if it's going to take N decimal digits to represent that
2019-05-26T18:23:23 < mawk> just an upper bound ?
2019-05-26T18:25:33 < mawk> anyway you can just divide by 10 until x % 10 != 0
2019-05-26T18:25:45 < mawk> then print this after a decimal point
2019-05-26T18:26:32 < Cracki> 10^3 to shift .xxx (decimal) to xxx (decimal)
2019-05-26T18:26:57 < mawk> yes but I mean there's a bunch of useless zeroes after the number
2019-05-26T18:27:01 < Cracki> sure
2019-05-26T18:27:09 < Cracki> but it's a simple calculation to make
2019-05-26T18:27:15 < mawk> yes
2019-05-26T18:27:19 < Cracki> and it's trivial to drop TRAILING zeroes
2019-05-26T18:27:32 < Cracki> just remove them after the conversion
2019-05-26T18:27:58 < Cracki> works for sprintf only, obviously, because you can't edit what has been sent already
2019-05-26T18:29:11 < Cracki> I'm always amazed that the c std library has no trim function to do that
2019-05-26T18:29:53 < Cracki> they could at least introduce that with a new revision
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2019-05-26T19:06:44 < bitmask> good morning
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2019-05-26T19:23:22 < zyp> hrm, I think my phone died
2019-05-26T19:23:50 < zyp> should I just buy a pixel 3, or are there any other decent options I should consider?
2019-05-26T19:26:13 < mawk> since I'm poor I got the older pixel
2019-05-26T19:26:20 < mawk> but if you have enough money the pixel 3 is good
2019-05-26T19:26:50 < mawk> especially for a tech oriented user
2019-05-26T19:26:53 < zyp> it just feels wrong to buy an outdated model when I'm spending money on a new phone
2019-05-26T19:27:07 < zyp> but yeah, I don't like the price
2019-05-26T19:27:26 < zyp> my old one is a nexus 5x, and before that I had a nexus 4
2019-05-26T19:27:48 < zyp> and pixel 3 is almost twice of what each of the old ones cost
2019-05-26T19:27:51 < mawk> yes I had these two phones before too
2019-05-26T19:28:12 < mawk> nexus 5x got the famous hardware bug, but since I'm not in the US I don't have all this class action money
2019-05-26T19:28:30 < mawk> bad thermal design leading to bending and SoC popping off motherboard
2019-05-26T19:28:39 < zyp> what hardware bug? the bootloop everybody is talking about?
2019-05-26T19:28:49 < mawk> yes I think
2019-05-26T19:28:57 < zyp> I wonder if that's what just happened on mine
2019-05-26T19:29:02 < mawk> it happened after a large period of overheating
2019-05-26T19:29:05 < zyp> shouldn't be, but idk
2019-05-26T19:29:19 < mawk> when I flashed the latest version after a large amount of time not doing anything special on it
2019-05-26T19:29:40 < mawk> there were solutions involving disabling performance cluster but I wouldn't want a crippled phone
2019-05-26T19:30:18 < zyp> I were dicking around switching wifis and UI froze in the middle of the click animation in the wifi menu
2019-05-26T19:30:30 < zyp> and now it's stuck bootlooping
2019-05-26T19:30:34 < mawk> I was watching a youtube video and the UI froze yeah
2019-05-26T19:30:37 < mawk> it was very hot
2019-05-26T19:30:47 < mawk> then even booting up in recovery mode didn't work
2019-05-26T19:30:47 < zyp> mine wasn't
2019-05-26T19:30:56 < mawk> only once every 50 tries
2019-05-26T19:31:26 < zyp> recovery mode starts, but doesn't seem to do anything (and doesn't enumerate on usb, so I'm not sure what that's for)
2019-05-26T19:31:50 < mawk> yeah you need to send it commands
2019-05-26T19:31:58 < zyp> how?
2019-05-26T19:32:02 < mawk> from the recovery menu there's a key combo to have a nice little menu with options like factory reset, etc
2019-05-26T19:32:08 < mawk> and ADB sideload mode, which gets you the USB peripheral
2019-05-26T19:32:10 < zyp> oh
2019-05-26T19:32:21 < mawk> on the pixel I have it's hold power, volume up, release power
2019-05-26T19:32:25 < zyp> anyway, can I use recovery mode to pull off my files?
2019-05-26T19:32:40 < mawk> I don't know exactly, your phone is encrypted
2019-05-26T19:32:52 < zyp> also locked
2019-05-26T19:32:53 < mawk> on the nexus 5X I had the encryption password was my lockscreen password
2019-05-26T19:32:59 < mawk> ah it's locked
2019-05-26T19:33:03 < zyp> yeah
2019-05-26T19:33:04 < mawk> that seems a little hopeless then
2019-05-26T19:33:29 < mawk> you have grandma tricks like putting in freezer or oven
2019-05-26T19:33:34 < mawk> and it works for a minute before crashing
2019-05-26T19:33:38 < mawk> you may have time pulling files
2019-05-26T19:33:52 < mawk> it worked for like 12 hours with mine when I heated it
2019-05-26T19:34:05 < zyp> might try that later
2019-05-26T19:34:33 < zyp> hmm, now I wish I had turned on syncing to google photos :p
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2019-05-26T19:34:37 < mawk> lol
2019-05-26T19:36:12 < zyp> it's the old adage about backup :p
2019-05-26T19:36:36 < zyp> apart from photos I don't think I've got anything on my phone I'm worried about losing though
2019-05-26T19:37:15 < boddax> cubeide new empty project ask about Cross Compiler Prefix ..what is that?
2019-05-26T19:37:55 < mawk> you started the project wrong boddax maybe
2019-05-26T19:38:04 < mawk> you asked for a STM32 project ?
2019-05-26T19:38:22 < boddax> yes but dont want all the things it add
2019-05-26T19:38:28 < zyp> on the other hand, this phone is still within 5 year ~warranty, so I should get it repaired for free
2019-05-26T19:38:38 < boddax> no started c project
2019-05-26T19:39:00 < mawk> well the prefix is like arm-none-eabi-
2019-05-26T19:39:54 < boddax> and the compiler path the bin directory?
2019-05-26T19:40:13 < mawk> yes I believe
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2019-05-26T19:51:32 < zyp> pixel 3a could have been an option too, but it doesn't seem to be available yet
2019-05-26T19:51:54 < mawk> it launched some days ago I think
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2019-05-26T20:08:21 < boddax> ok thnks , is that andruid?
2019-05-26T20:08:43 < Cracki> it's google so it could be whatever their AI came up with today
2019-05-26T20:15:13 < zyp> hmm, I started peeling my phone apart, now it turned on and seems to stay on
2019-05-26T20:15:23 < zyp> currently syncing photos :p
2019-05-26T20:19:27 < Steffanx> dont you have backups? ;)
2019-05-26T20:19:49 < zyp> not of my phone, no
2019-05-26T20:20:04 < Steffanx> hm
2019-05-26T20:20:34 < zyp> I mean, I don't really store anything important on it
2019-05-26T20:20:47 < zyp> except the photos that I just realized I don't wanna lose :p
2019-05-26T20:20:48 < Steffanx> except for some photos you dont evne remember you took?
2019-05-26T20:21:13 < specing> zyp: xioami redmi?
2019-05-26T20:22:12 < zyp> why that one in particular?
2019-05-26T20:22:18 < Steffanx> when will xiaomi be like huawei?
2019-05-26T20:22:22 < zyp> also which redmi?
2019-05-26T20:22:23 < zyp> that too
2019-05-26T20:22:33 < specing> zyp: its cheap and its good
2019-05-26T20:22:52 < zyp> the reason I've been buying nexus is because I don't want any bullshit
2019-05-26T20:23:35 < zyp> hmm
2019-05-26T20:23:52 < specing> zyp: check out LineageOS support list, as you'll probably want to flash that after buying
2019-05-26T20:23:57 < zyp> no
2019-05-26T20:24:04 < zyp> that's exactly what I don't want
2019-05-26T20:24:20 < specing> Maybe a Jolla, then?
2019-05-26T20:24:32 < zyp> I want a phone that works without dicking around with third party stuff
2019-05-26T20:24:44 < zyp> hmm
2019-05-26T20:24:52 < zyp> the Mi A2 could be interesting
2019-05-26T20:25:00 < kakimir> I think sony or some other company made phones that you could replace android with jolla or so
2019-05-26T20:25:17 < kakimir> sailfish
2019-05-26T20:25:40 < jpa-> i put stuff like photos and videos on SD-card on the phone, trivial recovery if phone fails (and then just hope the SD card doesn't.. :)
2019-05-26T20:25:57 < kakimir> I put them in SD card and then encrypt the card
2019-05-26T20:26:08 < zyp> jpa-, does phones still have sd cards?
2019-05-26T20:26:12 < Steffanx> hell yeah.
2019-05-26T20:26:41 < Steffanx> A shared simcard/sdcard slot isnt that uncommon
2019-05-26T20:26:50 < Steffanx> usd that is ofcourse.
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2019-05-26T20:32:59 < zyp> hmm, maybe I should dig up my old phone and turn on sync on that too
2019-05-26T20:36:29 < zyp> hmm, xiaomi a2 lacks nfc just like a1
2019-05-26T20:37:19 < zyp> not gonna buy a phone without nfc, especially not with android pay on the way
2019-05-26T20:39:52 < zyp> okay, I guess if I get all my photos pulled off this phone, I can hand it in for repair and get a loaner meanwhile, so I'm not in a super hurry to get a replacement phone
2019-05-26T20:41:10 < jpa-> my phone (hmd nokia 3) has 2x sim + 1x microsd
2019-05-26T20:41:11 < sync> I never felt a need for nfc besides cloning mifare cards
2019-05-26T20:44:25 < zyp> I don't use nfc regularly for anything, but I still use it often enough it'd be annoying not to have it
2019-05-26T20:44:27 < pennTeller> Hi guys, I downloaded stm32cube IDE, however when I try to debug a project it seems like the IDE by default tries to use ST Link, is there a way to exclusively use serial communication to flash the stm32?
2019-05-26T20:45:00 < zyp> and when my bank gets google pay support (which they are claiming are happening soon), I expect I'll be using that too
2019-05-26T20:45:40 < zyp> pennTeller, yes, flashing but not debugging
2019-05-26T20:45:52 < zyp> every stm32 has a builtin serial bootloader
2019-05-26T20:46:24 < pennTeller> Thank you :)
2019-05-26T20:47:07 < zyp> why would you want to though?
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2019-05-26T20:53:02 < zyp> hmm, phone says it's halfway but it's almost done syncing photos
2019-05-26T20:53:06 < zyp> guess it does videos last
2019-05-26T20:54:07 < pennTeller> zyp: I don't have an ST-link
2019-05-26T20:54:21 < zyp> time to get a discovery board then
2019-05-26T20:56:10 < pennTeller> zyp: Maybe in the future, at the moment all I am trying to do is flash the stm32 directly from stm32cube ide but can't find the "flash" section and all tutorial online seem to require the use of an st link
2019-05-26T20:56:34 < zyp> not sure stm32cube can use the bootloader
2019-05-26T20:57:18 < pennTeller> zyp: I see, so then I have to "manually" flash the elf file into the setm32 using stm32flash right?
2019-05-26T21:00:31 < catphish> you can't flash an elf, you need to turn it into a bin file
2019-05-26T21:00:47 < zyp> assuming the tool doesn't do that for you
2019-05-26T21:01:16 < catphish> no idea how you flash one of those USB things with no st-link
2019-05-26T21:02:58 < Steffanx> What kind of ftdi chip do you have? FT2232H can be used with openocd
2019-05-26T21:08:50 < sync> zyp: ah, I guess... I just use cash
2019-05-26T21:09:05 < Steffanx> you're oldschool sync
2019-05-26T21:09:40 < boddax> why there no add existing  files to active project Cubeide
2019-05-26T21:12:28 < Steffanx> sure there is.
2019-05-26T21:13:06 < Steffanx> Just drag the files into the Project Explorer.
2019-05-26T21:13:11 < Steffanx> And tell it what to do. move or copy.
2019-05-26T21:13:48 < Steffanx> or use import.
2019-05-26T21:14:32 < mawk> yes it's what happened to me zyp I took it apart entirely, heated the SoC, then it booted up and ran normally for a couple hours
2019-05-26T21:14:38 < mawk> I don't know if it's the taking apart or the heating
2019-05-26T21:15:22 < zyp> idk either, but at this point I don't mind sending it in for warranty repair or whatever, since I got the photos off it :p
2019-05-26T21:15:50 < mawk> I used a blowtorch for like 30s
2019-05-26T21:15:54 < zyp> pulled out my old nexus 4 to sync it too
2019-05-26T21:15:55 < Steffanx> lol
2019-05-26T21:15:57 < zyp> it's so small
2019-05-26T21:15:58 < Steffanx> pro tools, mawk :P
2019-05-26T21:15:59 < mawk> but it was on the metal shield it's fine
2019-05-26T21:16:00 < mawk> lol
2019-05-26T21:16:01 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-26T21:16:11 < mawk> my oven doesn't go hot enough
2019-05-26T21:16:41 < zyp> hmm
2019-05-26T21:17:01 < zyp> what's a simple way to get input into an android phone where half the touchscreen is dead? :p
2019-05-26T21:17:08 < mawk> mouse and keyboard
2019-05-26T21:17:09 < Steffanx> mouse/keyboard.
2019-05-26T21:17:13 < mawk> you don't have a OTG dongle ?
2019-05-26T21:17:19 < mawk> you could cook up one I guess
2019-05-26T21:17:23 < zyp> I might, but IIRC nexus 4 doesn't do OTG
2019-05-26T21:17:28 < mawk> get any micro usb connector, tie the ID pin to ground
2019-05-26T21:17:28 < Steffanx> awh
2019-05-26T21:17:32 < mawk> ah ? I thought it did
2019-05-26T21:17:36 < mawk> I had one, but I don't remember
2019-05-26T21:17:45 < boddax> working drag n drop too much easy Steffanx
2019-05-26T21:17:47 < Steffanx> what kind of ancient phone is that nexus 4? :P
2019-05-26T21:18:03 < zyp> IIRC the chip is OTG capable but the board doesn't have the support parts for providing vbus
2019-05-26T21:18:12 < boddax> you too mawk you buy pixel 3?
2019-05-26T21:18:13 < mawk> otherwise with my dead touchscreen I was playing around with portrait/landscape
2019-05-26T21:18:18 < mawk> to put what I wanted to type in the touchable zone
2019-05-26T21:18:23 < mawk> no I have pixel XL boddax 
2019-05-26T21:18:24 < mawk> the first
2019-05-26T21:18:25 < zyp> ah, yeah, that makes sense
2019-05-26T21:18:57 < mawk> otherwise bluetooth keyboard maybe
2019-05-26T21:19:18 < zyp> don't think I've got one
2019-05-26T21:30:45 < zyp> using landscape mode one way or another to get either half of the keyboard worked out
2019-05-26T21:32:21 < mawk> ah good
2019-05-26T21:32:31 < zyp> awh, nexus 5x rebooted again
2019-05-26T21:33:54 < zyp> okay, rebooted fine
2019-05-26T21:34:04 < zyp> 10 videos left :p
2019-05-26T21:37:34 < Steffanx> How old is your nexus 4 zyp? It was released 7 years ago.. yours is still under warranty?
2019-05-26T21:37:51 < Steffanx> or is this the norwegian warranty period again.
2019-05-26T21:38:03 < zyp> you're mixing up
2019-05-26T21:38:09 < mawk> I have multiple power input for my board, and I have the choice of OR-ing the input rails before going to the regulator, so have only one regulator; or OR-ing the outputs of the several regulator
2019-05-26T21:38:20 < Steffanx> oh your old one is the nexus 4 :P
2019-05-26T21:38:23 < zyp> Steffanx, my current phone that's misbehaving is a nexus 5x
2019-05-26T21:38:26 < mawk> I was drawing the first but I don't know if it's the best thing
2019-05-26T21:38:45 < zyp> since I got that all cloud synced now, I got inspired to dig up my old nexus 4 and sync that as well
2019-05-26T21:39:02 < mawk> my n4 died in the same way as yours
2019-05-26T21:39:29 < Steffanx> with a broken touch screen? :P
2019-05-26T21:39:34 < mawk> yes
2019-05-26T21:39:40 < Steffanx> 1/2 broken
2019-05-26T21:39:45 < mawk> yes around the half
2019-05-26T21:39:49 < mawk> it fell from around 2m
2019-05-26T21:39:53 < mawk> on wooden floor
2019-05-26T21:43:27 < zyp> mine just came out of the pocket with a crack across it once
2019-05-26T21:43:44 < zyp> and the half below the crack doesn't work anymore
2019-05-26T21:44:07 < Steffanx> im surprised my motorola didnt break earlier. I only noticed until recently the speaker was brokenish. (i hardly use my phone to make phone calls) and i dropped it a dozen times.
2019-05-26T21:44:18 < Steffanx> More than a dozen. Also down the stairs a few time.
2019-05-26T21:44:23 < Steffanx> s
2019-05-26T21:46:00 < mawk> in this configuration if the two power supplies have the same voltage only one diode can conduct right ?https://pix.watch/H9RMPl/wbG3mx.png
2019-05-26T21:46:03 < zyp> I had my phone in the holder on my bike when I fell a few days earlier, so I suspect it got an invisible crack in the edge of the glass, and then with some flexing in the pocket it spread across the entire screen
2019-05-26T21:46:28 < zyp> okay, nexus 5x is fully synced, yay
2019-05-26T21:47:42 < mawk> nice
2019-05-26T21:48:13 < jpa-> mawk: if they have the same voltage, both diodes will conduct with approximately same current
2019-05-26T21:48:38 < mawk> but why jpa- ? if you need like 0.6V more at anode than cathode to start conduction
2019-05-26T21:48:42 < mawk> ah
2019-05-26T21:48:50 < mawk> yes there is the voltage drop of the other, so you have that difference
2019-05-26T21:48:51 < mawk> I see
2019-05-26T21:48:56 < mawk> I missed that part
2019-05-26T21:49:07 < jpa-> the hotter diode will have lower forward voltage and will conduct more
2019-05-26T21:49:23 < mawk> that is positive feedback
2019-05-26T21:49:33 < boddax> do you think also existing makefile can be used under cubeide?
2019-05-26T21:49:38 < mawk> so the diode needs to be sized as if it conducted all of it
2019-05-26T21:49:49 < mawk> I don't think so boddax , at least I tried for a while
2019-05-26T21:49:56 < mawk> but maybe, look in menus and stuff
2019-05-26T21:50:10 < mawk> actually I just tried to import an actual makefile project
2019-05-26T21:50:22 < mawk> but I know there's an option to use a real makefile instead of keep it hidden under the hood
2019-05-26T21:50:25 < boddax> then not working?
2019-05-26T21:50:27 < mawk> you can follow that lead
2019-05-26T21:50:59 < mawk> yes it didn't want to properly import the project, but it was more a problem with cubeMX project files than Makefile now that I think about it
2019-05-26T21:51:20 < mawk> but why do you want to keep using a makefile ? the IDE will take care of the compilation for you
2019-05-26T21:56:03 < boddax> porting coocox existing project to cubeide
2019-05-26T21:56:18 < mawk> yes
2019-05-26T21:56:25 < mawk> well you can let the IDE compile itself
2019-05-26T21:56:32 < mawk> the makefile shouldn't be that complicated
2019-05-26T21:56:54 < mawk> the IDE do the normal stuff like converting elf to flat binary, linking with nano libc, etc
2019-05-26T21:56:57 < mawk> everything is configurable
2019-05-26T21:57:48 < boddax> have this diorectives to place .. -mcpu=cortex-m3 ; -mthumb ; -g2 ; -Wall ; -Os ; -DUSE_STDPERIPH_DRIVER ; -D__ASSEMBLY__ ; -DSTM32F103C8 ; -DSTM32F10X_MD ; -DLEDBLINK ; -DUSEUSB ; ...
2019-05-26T21:58:02 < mawk> yes
2019-05-26T21:58:11 < mawk> don't worry about -m, -g, -W, -O
2019-05-26T21:58:15 < mawk> IDE does it for you
2019-05-26T21:58:21 < mawk> for the defines you have a menu to put them
2019-05-26T21:58:26 < mawk> there are two places, don't mix them up
2019-05-26T21:58:29 < mawk> one of them doesn't work
2019-05-26T21:58:54 < zyp> hmm
2019-05-26T21:58:56 < mawk> it is in compiler settings or something
2019-05-26T21:59:09 < boddax> then also ldscript ..to linker directives?
2019-05-26T21:59:09 < zyp> N5X battery seems a bit puffed up, maybe that's part of the problem
2019-05-26T21:59:27 < mawk> how is your ldscript boddax ?
2019-05-26T21:59:29 < mawk> cube does one too
2019-05-26T21:59:50 < mawk> if it's standard-ish don't worry
2019-05-26T22:00:03 < mawk> sections will be at their right place
2019-05-26T22:00:07 < mawk> all fine
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2019-05-26T22:03:50 < boddax> mmhh better to continue tomorrow now bit confused ..lets drink a warm cup of flux mawk :P
2019-05-26T22:05:03 < mawk> lol
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2019-05-26T22:15:08 < Steffanx> ah mawk survived the flux poisoning.
2019-05-26T22:15:44 < mawk> yes
2019-05-26T22:15:51 < mawk> but I had the terriblest headache since a very long time
2019-05-26T22:25:52 < zyp> there, now my old nexus 4 is uploading 200 photos too
2019-05-26T22:26:02 < zyp> less than the close to a thousand I had on the 5x
2019-05-26T22:26:45 < mawk> nice
2019-05-26T22:27:27 < zyp> used to take more photos with a proper camera before
2019-05-26T22:27:47 < zyp> which is why I've never bothered about old photos before
2019-05-26T22:28:06 -!- boddax [~boddax@host192-141-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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2019-05-26T23:09:14 < karlp> zyp:mi a2 looks like a cut down a1 honestly.
2019-05-26T23:09:20 < karlp> moto one vision perhaps?
2019-05-26T23:11:56 < zyp> hmm, dunno
2019-05-26T23:12:24 < zyp> I'll put it off a bit
2019-05-26T23:12:49 < karlp> my a1 still gets updates, so not looking for a replacement yet.
2019-05-26T23:12:53 < Steffanx> motorola is pretty slow with updates. And it might have been my phone, but since the update to 8 it was awfully slow. (i had a moto g5s +)
2019-05-26T23:12:55 < karlp> but nfc was the obvios missing feature
2019-05-26T23:13:03 < Steffanx> i mean lenovo. :P
2019-05-26T23:13:08 < zyp> gonna take the 5x to the store tomorrow and see what they say on getting a warranty repair
2019-05-26T23:13:54 < zyp> that should entitle me to a loaner phone short term
2019-05-26T23:14:30 < zyp> which means I don't have to go pick up a new phone first thing tomorrow
2019-05-26T23:14:40 < sync> I just got an a2, it seems to be fine
2019-05-26T23:27:16 < qyx> mhm where to get common consumer grade NAND flash chips? such as those used in usb disks
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2019-05-26T23:29:44 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-26_22-29-27_a7gHAQYkN.png big VARUE
2019-05-26T23:35:20 -!- rajkosto [~Rajko@cable-178-149-212-76.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-05-26T23:39:52 < Steffanx> ty
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--- Day changed Mon May 27 2019
2019-05-27T00:11:35 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has joined ##stm32
2019-05-27T00:29:08 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bja4cZM333s kaki recommended music video
2019-05-27T00:36:10 < Steffanx> Welcome kakimir 
2019-05-27T00:36:20 < kakimir> friend died today
2019-05-27T00:36:47 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
2019-05-27T00:37:11 < Steffanx> Accident?
2019-05-27T00:37:24 < kakimir> moto cross finnish championship
2019-05-27T00:37:32 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-05-27T00:39:57 < Steffanx> I'm sorry to hear that.
2019-05-27T00:40:53 < kakimir> he was invulnerable stunt machine
2019-05-27T00:41:06 < Steffanx> Good friend?
2019-05-27T00:41:39 < kakimir> we were "staying in touch" for few last years
2019-05-27T00:41:49 < kakimir> before that we did all kind of shit together
2019-05-27T00:43:05 < kakimir> almost always there were close calls
2019-05-27T00:50:45 < kakimir> but he always had crazy luck.. we ended up saying that stunts cannot kill him but it will be something more trivial
2019-05-27T00:51:03 < kakimir> he himself said that it won't be of old age
2019-05-27T00:53:59 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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2019-05-27T01:36:41 < ohsix> aliexpress is rooned
2019-05-27T01:37:09 < kakimir> ?
2019-05-27T01:40:07 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Said_Hanrahan
2019-05-27T01:40:33 < Cracki> still works for me, at least product search
2019-05-27T01:49:28 < Steffanx> ohsix clicked on the sexy ladies too often and now that's all he gets?
2019-05-27T01:51:54 -!- Laurenceb_ [~laurence@host31-49-125-0.range31-49.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##stm32
2019-05-27T01:58:23 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@94.15.80.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-05-27T01:58:37 < kakimir> ohsix was shopping some cheap cheap lingerie
2019-05-27T02:01:31 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
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2019-05-27T04:09:53 < ohsix> they've got some 'new app mode' thing you can change in the url but it breaks every navigation, showing a lot less items and theseven's script doesn't work
2019-05-27T04:10:20 < ohsix> also they've upped bot sensitivity stuff so i'm getting sliders all the time
2019-05-27T04:42:54 -!- gsi__ [~gsisig@x4d0c47ac.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined ##stm32
2019-05-27T04:45:02 < rajkosto> bah i might end up having to use smd-only microusb
2019-05-27T04:45:19 < rajkosto> not enough space to fit everything otherwise
2019-05-27T04:46:13 -!- gsi_ [~gsisig@x4d0c6264.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-05-27T04:46:59 < englishman> bullshit
2019-05-27T04:47:12 < rajkosto> i need to place it on the back
2019-05-27T04:47:19 < rajkosto> and holes going to the front would ruin everything
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2019-05-27T04:55:33 < bitmask> $48 for 2.5 hours, I'll take it
2019-05-27T05:05:38 < ohsix> are you excited about the election englishman ?
2019-05-27T05:09:11 < mawk> you're not ohsix ?
2019-05-27T05:09:28 < ohsix> in my own way, i'm not an english man tho
2019-05-27T05:09:49 < mawk> just being a frenchman is enough
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2019-05-27T05:16:32 < dongs> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/wat/32978844352.html
2019-05-27T05:17:25 < mawk> isn't that expensive ?
2019-05-27T05:18:16 < dongs> i could use a datasheet for it
2019-05-27T05:18:57 < mawk> how do you solder this ?
2019-05-27T05:18:59 < mawk> the little forks
2019-05-27T05:19:25 < ohsix> uhhh https://i.imgur.com/I4Ew1IX.png
2019-05-27T05:19:45 < mawk> lol
2019-05-27T05:19:47 < dongs> paste in pad would prolly work for all of it
2019-05-27T05:20:23 < englishman> why do you need it to not have the ss pins?
2019-05-27T05:21:12 < dongs> beacuse its for charge/dcp/qc only
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2019-05-27T05:21:32 < dongs> and the ones wiht 24 pins look fucky to solder
2019-05-27T05:21:59 < dongs> plus i'd rather have fat high current connectors for the vbus/gnd
2019-05-27T05:23:01 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-05-27T05:23:25 < englishman> being fucky to solder is possible
2019-05-27T05:23:42 < englishman> all the connectors are 5A rated tho
2019-05-27T05:23:45 < englishman> idk
2019-05-27T05:24:41 < dongs> hm that part doesnt exist on digikey
2019-05-27T05:33:02 < bitmask> es121 has built in stm32
2019-05-27T05:35:38 < dongs> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/the_fucK_is_this/32849435346.html ???
2019-05-27T05:36:24 < englishman> neat
2019-05-27T05:36:34 < dongs> what does that evne do?
2019-05-27T05:36:36 < dongs> i dont get it
2019-05-27T05:37:13 < dongs> its a usb-c without teh outer shield?
2019-05-27T05:38:55 < Cracki> looks like it
2019-05-27T05:39:01 < Cracki> weird
2019-05-27T05:40:21 < Cracki> that's gonna break off soon without a proper shield
2019-05-27T05:53:19 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/FM3zvNK.png very nice
2019-05-27T06:05:05 < rajkosto> why is CC2 a different shade
2019-05-27T06:07:02 < dongs> yeah im curious too
2019-05-27T06:07:12 < dongs> donno
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2019-05-27T06:36:25 < dongs> http://www.gstekic.com/pdf/GS7138.pdf chinese LDO with wide Vin
2019-05-27T06:37:29 < dongs> hmm, i have it on schematic with SOT23-5 footprint
2019-05-27T06:37:29 < dongs> wtf
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2019-05-27T06:59:18 < rajkosto> i cant find microsmd fully smt step that has the 2 plastic pegs
2019-05-27T06:59:28 < rajkosto> microusb*
2019-05-27T07:00:27 < dongs> pic?
2019-05-27T07:01:01 < rajkosto> STEP model
2019-05-27T07:01:07 < dongs> YES PIC OF TEH FUCKIGN THING
2019-05-27T07:01:12 < dongs> your description makes no sense
2019-05-27T07:01:15 < dongs> what is '2 plastic pegs'
2019-05-27T07:01:22 < rajkosto> https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i4/2459786763/TB21q94qXXXXXaSXXXXXXXXXXXX_!!2459786763.png
2019-05-27T07:01:31 < dongs> ah
2019-05-27T07:01:33 < rajkosto> the 2 pegs the non-plated holes are for
2019-05-27T07:07:15 < rajkosto> http://www.3dcontentcentral.com/secure/Download-Partner-Model.aspx?partner=TraceParts&name=USB+MC+2+B+SMD%2c+USB+2.0+type+B+micro+socket%2c+suitable+for+SMD+technique&lang=en&catalogid=11771&id=1033962&parturl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.tracepartsonline.net%2fws%2f3dcc%2fproduct.aspx%3ffwsid%3d3DCC%26product%3d30-08022019-097195%26htb%3d1%26lang%3den
2019-05-27T07:12:15 < dongs> rajkosto: haha, domain of that kangsheng company expired
2019-05-27T07:12:21 < dongs> replaced by some chink spam 
2019-05-27T07:12:28 < dongs> http://www.kang-sheng.com used to be here
2019-05-27T07:13:06 < ohsix> heheh surprised myself a few times today seeing irc in alt tab
2019-05-27T07:13:07 < dongs> partner model? this shit isnt loading
2019-05-27T07:13:18 < dongs> oh
2019-05-27T07:13:20 < dongs> german clone lol
2019-05-27T07:13:21 < dongs> nice
2019-05-27T07:13:34 < rajkosto> the step of that one is a bit weird regarding the pegs
2019-05-27T07:13:35 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-27_06-13-24_AcwYrOEf9.png
2019-05-27T07:13:43 < rajkosto> their thing says hole size 0.8 and thats what that looks like
2019-05-27T07:13:58 < ohsix> need to stick it on a raspberry pi and small display or something, stopped doing a lot of things when the craptop of random tasks died
2019-05-27T07:14:00 < dongs> that feel when i try to hold shift and right click that png
2019-05-27T07:14:08 < dongs> to rotate it around
2019-05-27T07:37:09 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-27_06-37-07_oYtttFtkn.png huh
2019-05-27T07:37:30 < dongs> RIP
2019-05-27T07:37:39 < dongs> is that after you expanded it?
2019-05-27T07:37:43 < dongs> or is that per datasheet
2019-05-27T07:37:52 < rajkosto> thats for 0.8mm of the german one
2019-05-27T07:40:10 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-27_06-40-10_KT8juTAuE.png
2019-05-27T07:40:28 < rajkosto> problem solved
2019-05-27T07:40:37 < dongs> how do you have center in such a bullshit place
2019-05-27T07:40:51 < rajkosto> cuz i forgot to move it
2019-05-27T07:40:53 < dongs> is that really the centerline from datasheet
2019-05-27T07:40:56 < dongs> o
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2019-05-27T08:11:39 < rajkosto> whats the largest i2c eeprom available in sot-23-5
2019-05-27T08:11:48 < dongs> donno proly 64kbit -ish
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2019-05-27T09:22:25 < dongs> Because of the adjustment of our website,our Points Mall is going to be closed . From now on, there will not be any point to be added to your account. Your original points are still effective for changing coupons. The deadline is July 31th, 2019 . Please change your points in time. We will clear all the points on August 1st, 2019.
2019-05-27T09:22:29 < rajkosto> stm32 big, i ran out of pcb space
2019-05-27T09:22:30 < dongs> RIP allpcb points
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2019-05-27T11:18:54 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-27_10-18-39_AxQdZBt7r.png can i fit a qfp stm32 with its xtal and ldo and sot-23-5 eeprom in this area
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2019-05-27T11:21:46 < dongs> yes but why would yo u need a crystal?
2019-05-27T11:21:51 < dongs> oh QFP
2019-05-27T11:21:52 < rajkosto> uzb
2019-05-27T11:21:55 < dongs> yeah but
2019-05-27T11:21:58 < dongs> just get F0
2019-05-27T11:22:00 < dongs> with crystalless USB
2019-05-27T11:22:14 < dongs> but i donno qfp48 stm is wat , 14, 14,,?
2019-05-27T11:22:17 < dongs> 14x14mm?
2019-05-27T11:22:26 < dongs> 3225 xtal is 3.2x2.5mm
2019-05-27T11:22:30 < c10ud> I did crystal less usb with atmel, but that was just for the serial stuff
2019-05-27T11:22:32 < rajkosto> yeah its pins go across the usb on the bottom
2019-05-27T11:22:33 < dongs> or you can use 8mhz resonator out of space 3215 size
2019-05-27T11:22:46 < dongs> er space=spec
2019-05-27T11:22:49 < rajkosto> i can barely make it i think
2019-05-27T11:22:57 < c10ud> don't stm32 all support usb syncing?
2019-05-27T11:23:02 < dongs> not at all
2019-05-27T11:23:05 < rajkosto> nah none of them do it
2019-05-27T11:23:08 < c10ud> oh ok
2019-05-27T11:23:09 < dongs> raj is proll a cheapsugfk using F103
2019-05-27T11:23:13 < rajkosto> always f103
2019-05-27T11:23:14 < rajkosto> its what i know
2019-05-27T11:23:21 < rajkosto> i have tons
2019-05-27T11:23:33 < rajkosto> theyh can run at 96MHz with uzb
2019-05-27T11:23:34 < rajkosto> all good
2019-05-27T11:27:17 < rajkosto> and i have working peripheral code for it at max frequencies why would i change
2019-05-27T11:28:40 < rajkosto> also gotta break out the programming pins somehow, shit
2019-05-27T11:50:50 < Thorn> so I assembled 4 boards with an identical buck circuit using aoz1282ci. one if them refused to work (output 0.8V instead of 3.3V). I resoldered everything a couple of times, then replaced the IC, same result. I took a hot air gun and started reflowing all components. when I reached the inductor it suddenly rotated 90°. you couldn't even tell by looking at it that it was installed incorrectly (pads not visible from the sides)
2019-05-27T11:50:50 < Thorn> #warstory
2019-05-27T11:58:04 < dongs> me about a year ago
2019-05-27T11:58:09 < dongs> except i assembled 1000 boards
2019-05-27T11:58:12 < c10ud> lol
2019-05-27T11:58:12 < dongs> with 2 inductors on each
2019-05-27T11:59:54 < rajkosto> i assembled 20
2019-05-27T12:00:04 < rajkosto> it was an unshielded chink one
2019-05-27T12:00:08 < rajkosto> on about half the boards it burned through
2019-05-27T12:00:22 < rajkosto> and behaved as a 0ohm link so everything worked except the dc2dc became an LDO
2019-05-27T12:00:38 < rajkosto> toasty
2019-05-27T12:02:35 < jly> i like the 1282ci
2019-05-27T12:03:13 < Thorn> I always test with a current limited lab psu -> no smoke
2019-05-27T12:03:37 < jly> it's easy too
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2019-05-27T12:05:17 < rajkosto> i have a diodes inc one i like
2019-05-27T12:05:19 < jpa-> i once set the current limit carefully.. and forgot the voltage at 33 volts instead of 3.3 volts
2019-05-27T12:05:21 < jpa-> i got smoke.
2019-05-27T12:05:44 < jly> :o
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2019-05-27T12:10:07 < rajkosto> i never got smoke
2019-05-27T12:10:07 < rajkosto> yet
2019-05-27T12:10:18 < rajkosto> anything that burned out burned out quietly, odorlessly
2019-05-27T12:10:28 < rajkosto> all that happens is that it becomes a short over its vcc to gnd
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2019-05-27T13:56:57 < zyp> took the nexus 5x to the store and made a warranty claim on it, that went fine
2019-05-27T13:58:05 < zyp> took them a while to look up the purchase in the system because the chain I bought it in got merged into another chain, but they got it sorted out with a phonecall
2019-05-27T13:58:30 < zyp> now I've got a moto g7 play as a loaner phone while they get it repaired
2019-05-27T13:58:36 < englishman> whoa, how is a 5x still under warranty?
2019-05-27T13:58:54 < zyp> norwegian consumer protection laws
2019-05-27T13:59:47 < englishman> oh it's a 2015 phone
2019-05-27T13:59:53 < englishman> 3yesrs then?
2019-05-27T14:00:11 < zyp> I bought it in 2016, so I've had it for three years and a couple of months
2019-05-27T14:00:23 < englishman> thought it came out right after the 5 which was like 2013
2019-05-27T14:00:32 < englishman> how long is the warranty then
2019-05-27T14:00:38 < zyp> no, 5x was the generation after 6
2019-05-27T14:00:41 < englishman> 3 years on a phone is pretty long
2019-05-27T14:00:54 < zyp> 4, 5, 6, 5x/6p, then pixel 1, 2 and 3
2019-05-27T14:01:32 < zyp> consumer protection laws gets you 2 or 5 years on manufacturing defects
2019-05-27T14:01:44 < zyp> 5 years for anything that's supposed to last more than 2
2019-05-27T14:01:50 < zyp> including phones
2019-05-27T14:01:55 < englishman> cool
2019-05-27T14:02:01 < zyp> also harddrives
2019-05-27T14:02:46 < zyp> anyway, the nexus 5x feels like it's due for a replacement, but I don't wanna spend money on a new phone yet
2019-05-27T14:03:35 < englishman> since you're stuck with NFC for some reason, that leaves out the awesome mi a2
2019-05-27T14:03:42 < zyp> maybe I'll pick up a pixel 3a when they're out
2019-05-27T14:04:41 < zyp> or maybe wait another generation or so
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2019-05-27T14:14:25 < englishman> fyi I use Google pay and the Samsung one that has mag stripe emulation for terminals that don't have paypass. and it's still a gimmick
2019-05-27T14:14:43 < englishman> the most useful parts of the app imo are the membership card storage parts
2019-05-27T14:16:00 < karlp> going from ~5-8 cards down to one+phone is worthwhile though...
2019-05-27T14:18:20 < englishman> yeah
2019-05-27T14:18:29 < englishman> but you don't need NFc for the membership cards
2019-05-27T14:18:52 < englishman> those damn cars were definitely the majority of shit in my wallet
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2019-05-27T14:19:31 < karlp> pretty happy we don't have that stuff here.
2019-05-27T14:19:55 < karlp> thought I now have a card for new work, old work, and pool, which would be nice to all merge together.
2019-05-27T14:20:21 < karlp> new work has a card reader for the parking garage, works at a good distance, don't have to open my phone case and take the card out.
2019-05-27T14:20:21 < englishman> if I could emulate the mifare cards for work and the bus that would be a real advantage
2019-05-27T14:20:39 < englishman> but for some reason NFC can't do that shit even on 2018 flagship phone
2019-05-27T14:20:43 < karlp> upstairs onto the floor, same vendor card reader, doesn't detect anythign til I take the card out, and place it directly on top of the reader
2019-05-27T14:20:45 < englishman> so: useless, dumb, fail
2019-05-27T14:21:27 < englishman> those cards are fat too
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2019-05-27T14:58:40 < karlp> https://imgur.com/a/LjSE0bU
2019-05-27T14:58:45 < karlp> fucking docs
2019-05-27T14:58:54 < karlp> used a pin that was common for all parts for this testing board.
2019-05-27T14:59:05 < karlp> moutn an L1 to develop so I can use the same parts on dut/host.
2019-05-27T14:59:11 < karlp> not actually available on l1.
2019-05-27T15:00:25 < karlp> am having problems with spi slave using exti for CS, was going to try using NSS pin for CS instead.
2019-05-27T15:01:17 < jpa-> so which pin is not available?
2019-05-27T15:02:39 < jpa-> i've also had trouble with SPI slave with EXTI for CS, was because driving MISO coupled capacitively to CS
2019-05-27T15:02:57 < jpa-> (too long cable / too fast edges)
2019-05-27T15:03:35 < jpa-> ah didn't scroll that page down
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2019-05-27T15:52:26 < karlp> any tips on spi slave with CS via exti? I think I'm disabling and resetting the wrong way, because the first transfer after reset works, but hten I get weird off by one type things, as if I've missed/gained an edge.
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2019-05-27T15:56:24 < dongs> what doyou mean
2019-05-27T15:56:34 < dongs> STM being spi slave?
2019-05-27T15:56:39 < dongs> and you can't use SPI_NSS for hardware trigger?
2019-05-27T15:56:58 < dongs> isn't that just because exti and shit is too slow?
2019-05-27T15:57:07 < Thorn> are there pullups/pulldowns on SCK & MOSI?
2019-05-27T15:57:18 < zyp> presumably to reset the byte state machine on CS deassert
2019-05-27T15:57:45 < Thorn> master may leave those in hi-Z between transfers and they may perform a spurious transition
2019-05-27T15:57:47 < zyp> SPI periph tells you nothing about the state of NSS, it just doesn't transfer data when it's deasserted
2019-05-27T15:59:27 < dongs> https://images.anandtech.com/doci/14410/ConceptD-7_CN715-71_02.jpg oh wow acer, fuck off. i saw that pic and thought WOW, another laptop maker gets it and puts pgup/down/home/end on separate keys at the end of keyboard instead of t his macfaggot shit. and then fucking zoomed in...
2019-05-27T16:00:05 < zyp> haha
2019-05-27T16:00:14 < dongs> that is beyond fucking disgusting, what the actual fuck?
2019-05-27T16:00:25 < zyp> to be fair, acer has always had terrible keyboard layouts
2019-05-27T16:00:34 < dongs> yeah well, i never even looked at thier shit
2019-05-27T16:01:06 < dongs> but seriously, play/mute/whatever bullshit media keys? 
2019-05-27T16:01:22 < dongs> as if laptop keyboards werent awful already
2019-05-27T16:01:38 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/XWrFKbw.png how would you arrange this
2019-05-27T16:02:39 < zyp> all vbuses, space, d+, d+, d-, d-, space, cc1, cc2, space all gnds
2019-05-27T16:02:48 < zyp> probably
2019-05-27T16:02:50 < Thorn> vbus at the top, gnd at the bottom
2019-05-27T16:02:56 < zyp> yeah
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2019-05-27T16:04:31 < zyp> I mean, a microusb would be vbus, d+, d-, id, gnd, just substitute cc lines for id, expand duplicates and add spaces to keep the groups separate
2019-05-27T16:05:24 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/YOYc9pX.png allright. looks good
2019-05-27T16:05:51 < zyp> nice
2019-05-27T16:06:04 < zyp> I wonder if that's how I made my symbol, I made one once
2019-05-27T16:06:16 < dongs> < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/FM3zvNK.png very nice
2019-05-27T16:06:17 < zyp> I think that one had SS and SBU lines also
2019-05-27T16:06:19 < dongs> its for this plug
2019-05-27T16:06:24 < dongs> yes, the SMT one has sbu
2019-05-27T16:06:26 < dongs> but this dip one doesnt
2019-05-27T16:06:33 < zyp> nice
2019-05-27T16:06:39 < dongs> does SBU have any use outside of highspeed hsit?
2019-05-27T16:06:45 < dongs> this completely lacks all HS lines
2019-05-27T16:07:05 < zyp> I believe that lauterbach stuff put SWD on SBU
2019-05-27T16:07:21 < zyp> not really relevant though
2019-05-27T16:07:23 < dongs> heh their jtagger thing?
2019-05-27T16:07:27 < zyp> yeah
2019-05-27T16:07:34 < zyp> highspeed trace on SS lines
2019-05-27T16:07:47 < dongs> they're just abusing usbc socket for debug?
2019-05-27T16:08:02 < zyp> but that stuff is meant for hardcore cortex-a stuff, not cortex-m
2019-05-27T16:08:22 < zyp> not abusing, adding it as a proper alternate mode as far as I understood
2019-05-27T16:08:35 < zyp> can debug the product from the outside without adding a dedicated debug port
2019-05-27T16:18:57 < dongs> zyp wahts your opinion on riscv
2019-05-27T16:19:00 < dongs> anyone using that shit seirously?
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2019-05-27T16:38:49 < qyx> interested too
2019-05-27T16:39:20 < qyx> there aree some kawaii china-made AI accelerators available
2019-05-27T16:39:42 < qyx> some of them have riscv cores if I read that correctly
2019-05-27T16:40:34 < qyx> such as the kendryte K210
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2019-05-27T16:47:27 < qyx> karlp: yeah as zyp says deasserting nss doesn't help, I did it with EXTI like you and yes, I was missing a bit or two at the beginning
2019-05-27T16:47:57 < qyx> I just make it a requirement to insert a delay after CS assert before transmitting data (on the master side)
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2019-05-27T16:48:49 < qyx> optimizing the EXTI handler helped to some extent but I was unable to correctly handle higher speeds with EXTI
2019-05-27T16:51:22 < zyp> dongs, riscv seems promising, but I haven't tried it yet
2019-05-27T16:51:59 < zyp> all the riscv chips I've looked at so far seems to have kinda shitty peripherals
2019-05-27T16:54:07 < zyp> except the RV32M1, I'm planning to pick up a vegaboard when they get the shipping rates to europe unfucked
2019-05-27T16:54:33 < zyp> RV32M1 seems kinda cool in that it's a cortex-m/risc-v hybrid
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2019-05-27T17:10:56 < dongs> does riscv have the propeller problem of having shit peripherals
2019-05-27T17:11:00 < dongs> that you ahve to waste cpu cycles on?
2019-05-27T17:11:04 < dongs> or they'rej ust shit hardware blocks
2019-05-27T17:11:45 < dongs> maybe oen of those chink STM32 cloners that stole the peripheral IP could combine riscv with stm32 peripherals
2019-05-27T17:13:20 < zyp> riscv is just a cpu block, just like arm
2019-05-27T17:13:32 < zyp> peripherals depends on whatever the vendor packs them with
2019-05-27T17:13:50 < dongs> so in theory its possible to do thaT?
2019-05-27T17:13:55 < zyp> yes
2019-05-27T17:14:12 < zyp> also, take a look at RV32M1 if you haven't already
2019-05-27T17:14:47 < zyp> it's a hybrid CM4/CM0+ and two risc-v cores
2019-05-27T17:14:55 < dongs> huh, on a single chip?
2019-05-27T17:14:58 < zyp> yes
2019-05-27T17:15:16 < dongs> hm by NXP
2019-05-27T17:15:24 < zyp> looking at the datasheet now, it mentions kinetis, so I think it has Kinetis periphs
2019-05-27T17:15:30 < zyp> NXP ate Freescale, so..
2019-05-27T17:15:32 < dongs> ugh, thats awful
2019-05-27T17:15:38 < dongs> i remember kinetis shit being disgusting
2019-05-27T17:15:54 < zyp> I never touched it, just remember it had CM4 without FPU
2019-05-27T17:17:17 < zyp> chip seems designed as a way to directly compare cortex-m and risc-v
2019-05-27T17:17:17 < dongs> heh vgeaboard shit uses that openSDA retarded jtagger
2019-05-27T17:17:52 < zyp> guess you could just build your application for either and benchmark both variants against each other
2019-05-27T17:18:11 < dongs> i wonder why risc is so much faster mhz wise
2019-05-27T17:18:27 < dongs> is ipc that bad?
2019-05-27T17:18:40 < dongs> like 320mhz riscv ~ 80mhz arm
2019-05-27T17:18:53 < zyp> dunno, doesn't seem like it
2019-05-27T17:19:16 < zyp> probably just newer processes
2019-05-27T17:20:24 < qyx> also how much low power is it
2019-05-27T17:20:43 < qyx> that kendryte risc claims 300mW idle
2019-05-27T17:21:00 < qyx> which is not very low power
2019-05-27T17:28:43 < Cracki> even arm has legacy
2019-05-27T17:28:49 < Cracki> ful arm instructions, thumb, ...
2019-05-27T17:29:11 < Cracki> rv is green field
2019-05-27T17:36:40 < Laurenceb_> the "AI" part of K210 looks nice
2019-05-27T17:36:50 < Laurenceb_> everything else about it is shit
2019-05-27T17:37:06 < Laurenceb_> maybe I should make my anti cat terminator 1000
2019-05-27T17:37:08 < Cracki> oh, my mistake. cortex m doesn't support ARM mode
2019-05-27T17:37:23 < Laurenceb_> >using arm mode
2019-05-27T17:37:28 < Laurenceb_> thumb2 ftw
2019-05-27T17:38:07 < Cracki> sure, question was what kinda legacy "cruft" a contemporary cortex M has to bring along that makes it have a slower clock than RV
2019-05-27T17:38:46 < Laurenceb_> isnt risv really basic like babbies first processor?
2019-05-27T17:39:26 < Laurenceb_> which would imply that ipc is low
2019-05-27T17:39:33 < Laurenceb_> surely someone has benchmarked this...
2019-05-27T17:39:58 < Cracki> just saw a dhrystone where the riscv was slightly ahead of cortex m
2019-05-27T17:40:04 < Cracki> in dmips/mhz
2019-05-27T17:40:22 < Laurenceb_> real world pls
2019-05-27T17:40:53 < Cracki> ask #riscv maybe :P
2019-05-27T17:41:18 < Cracki> I haven't even tried to keep up with rv since 2016
2019-05-27T17:41:26 < boddax> i remember mips cpu playstation
2019-05-27T17:42:23 < Cracki> cortex m at 80 mhz is probably for power saving. I'm sure they can run at comparable clock speeds with comparable difficulty.
2019-05-27T17:42:50 < Laurenceb_> ok looks like DMIPS is 80% of arm cortex per mhz
2019-05-27T17:43:07 < dongs> so what does that mean
2019-05-27T17:43:16 < dongs> 320mhz risvv = ?? mhz cortex-m
2019-05-27T17:43:16 < Cracki> that means "comparable"
2019-05-27T17:43:23 < dongs> 20% slower?
2019-05-27T17:43:31 < Cracki> besides, rv is a specification. you get a few implementations that emphasize one or the other aspect
2019-05-27T17:43:36 < Laurenceb_> coremark is 90%
2019-05-27T17:43:43 < Cracki> where are you getting these numbers
2019-05-27T17:44:03 < Laurenceb_>  ~250mhz cortex-m is 320mhz riscv
2019-05-27T17:44:19 < Cracki> https://hackaday.com/2018/06/25/sifive-releases-smaller-lower-power-risc-v-cores/
2019-05-27T17:44:27 < Laurenceb_> www.diva-portal.se/smash/get/diva2:1114115/FULLTEXT02.pdf
2019-05-27T17:44:52 < Cracki> >compiler performance
2019-05-27T17:45:26 < Cracki> it DOES list several implementations of rv
2019-05-27T17:45:39 < Cracki> figure 1
2019-05-27T17:46:20 < Laurenceb_> hmm sifive claim faster than M4
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2019-05-27T17:46:29 < Laurenceb_> >no real world results
2019-05-27T17:47:21 < Cracki> where do they claim that
2019-05-27T17:48:16 < Cracki> this claims 1.61 DMIPS/MHz
2019-05-27T17:48:16 < Cracki>  https://www.sifive.com/cores/e31
2019-05-27T17:48:28 < Cracki> compares to the 1.25 or 1.5 dmips/mhz of cortex m, I think that's ok
2019-05-27T17:48:57 < boddax> Cracki have you never work with SIPO data shift register old style mcu data?
2019-05-27T17:49:26 < Cracki> wat
2019-05-27T17:49:32 < Cracki> why would you even ask that question
2019-05-27T17:50:19 < boddax> because working project to replace broken display
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2019-05-27T17:50:45 < Cracki> ?!?!?
2019-05-27T17:50:48 < zyp> does anybody have any experience with line scan camera sensors?
2019-05-27T17:51:02 < Cracki> so you're addressing random people eh
2019-05-27T17:51:27 < Laurenceb_> zyp: I have one but only ever used it with off the shelf interface board
2019-05-27T17:51:37 < Cracki> I've played with a contact image sensor, that's like an analog shift register
2019-05-27T17:51:53 < boddax> from an old mcu i have 2 signals clock to display number on 32 alphanumeric display and SIPO containing info about nmbers and letters
2019-05-27T17:51:56 < Cracki> (taken out of a cheap flatbed scanner)
2019-05-27T17:52:03 < zyp> Laurenceb_, what sort of rates do they produce?
2019-05-27T17:52:22 < Laurenceb_> depends on the sensor, mine does about 500hz
2019-05-27T17:52:27 < Laurenceb_> for a spectrometer
2019-05-27T17:52:57 < Cracki> random google says double digit khz is possible
2019-05-27T17:53:05 < Laurenceb_> sounds about right
2019-05-27T17:53:06 < zyp> Cracki, yeah, found the same
2019-05-27T17:53:08 < boddax> one by one write the value each display till the 32 then back to the firts
2019-05-27T17:53:38 < zyp> I'm not sure what's required
2019-05-27T17:53:57 < Laurenceb_> in other news I got a fourier transform spectrometer to operate in ~mm wave using a thermopile sensor
2019-05-27T17:53:58 < Cracki> basler is a known brand, they have 80 khz here, but I wonder what kinda illumination you'll need for that https://www.baslerweb.com/en/products/cameras/line-scan-cameras/racer/
2019-05-27T17:54:12 < Cracki> what do you wanna _do_ with a line scan cam?
2019-05-27T17:54:15 < boddax> maybe 60hz refresh
2019-05-27T17:54:30 < Cracki> industrial inspection of sheet metal/wood/plastic?
2019-05-27T17:54:44 < Laurenceb_> used it for testing pcb based "optical" filters
2019-05-27T17:55:27 < Laurenceb_> FR4 with copper pattern to cut off at 250µm
2019-05-27T17:55:29 < zyp> Cracki, client wants me to research some options for a project, and it's kinda NDA-ed, so I don't think I'm allowed to say
2019-05-27T17:55:37 < Cracki> hehe
2019-05-27T17:55:45 < Cracki> 12k line res, that's neat
2019-05-27T17:55:46 < zyp> but basically tracking fast-moving shit
2019-05-27T17:55:59 < Cracki> if it's moving in 1d, line scan sounds sensible
2019-05-27T17:57:03 < Cracki> finding a (dark/bright) mode in a 12k value data series, that's easy DSP
2019-05-27T17:57:29 < zyp> it'll be moving across the line, not moving along it
2019-05-27T17:57:42 < Cracki> ah
2019-05-27T17:57:51 < Laurenceb_> sounds like a missile to me
2019-05-27T17:57:52 < Cracki> that's why the line rate...
2019-05-27T17:58:02 < Cracki> sounds like a tachometer for paintball
2019-05-27T17:58:30 < Cracki> those things use simple photodiodes with appropriate aperture
2019-05-27T17:58:41 < zyp> I want position, not speed
2019-05-27T17:58:43 < Cracki> if shit crosses the plane _anywhere_, you see it in the output
2019-05-27T17:58:58 < Cracki> ic
2019-05-27T17:59:50 < Cracki> sounds like sorting small stuff with air nozzles or something
2019-05-27T18:02:34 < Cracki> basler's cameralink has 800 MByte/s, so that would fit the listed specs with 8 bits per pixel
2019-05-27T18:03:39 < zyp> hmm, suspect it might be too slow
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2019-05-27T18:04:46 < Cracki> you'd like 100+ khz?
2019-05-27T18:05:45 < Cracki> this does 200 khz https://www.jai.com/products/line-scan-cameras/single-sensor-monochrome
2019-05-27T18:07:38 < zyp> it'll be looking at projectiles, and while I don't know the exact speeds and sizes involved, some guesswork tells me it won't be spending many microseconds in front of the camera
2019-05-27T18:07:44 < qyx> I want a linensensor with 0.1Hz
2019-05-27T18:08:11 < Cracki> this talks about 300 khz and MULTI line https://www.ait.ac.at/fileadmin/mc/digital_safety_security/downloads/1140_BODENSTORFER_svd2016_xposure_Camera_v4.pdf
2019-05-27T18:08:41 < Cracki> then maybe a normal non-line camera, but with high frame rate, so you have a chance to see the object _somewhere_ in the frame
2019-05-27T18:09:53 < Cracki> line scan has nice geometry but if they spring for one of those "orthogonal projection" lenses that can be made in half-meter diameters...
2019-05-27T18:10:22 < Cracki> qyx, something that senses linen? that's a cat
2019-05-27T18:13:55 < Cracki> wikipedia gives 1700 m/s for some projectile, with an 1000 fps camera that's 1.7 meters of field to have a chance to see it
2019-05-27T18:33:01 < jpa-> zyp: could you arrange it so that light gets reflected (not blocked) by the projectiles? then you could exposure over a millisecond or so, and any projectiles would appear as a line in the image
2019-05-27T18:33:32 < jpa-> (to catch 'em all, you'd either need a camera that does gapless exposure or to stagger the exposures of two cameras)
2019-05-27T18:36:04 < zyp> good idea, but I don't think that'd work out
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2019-05-27T18:56:45 < Laurenceb_> >There are more atoms in our bodies than votes for Brexit
2019-05-27T18:57:12 < zyp> how's brexiting going?
2019-05-27T18:57:34 < Laurenceb_> triggering the europeans epic style
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2019-05-27T19:23:09 < englishman> could you take speed and derive position
2019-05-27T19:23:50 < zyp> no, I want position orthogonal to speed
2019-05-27T19:25:21 < englishman> interesting
2019-05-27T19:26:02 < englishman> does it have to be in flight
2019-05-27T19:26:49 < englishman> what's your back of napkin calc for dwell time and reprate
2019-05-27T19:28:43 < Laurenceb_> https://imgoat.com/uploads/b8a614226a/214422.jpeg
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2019-05-27T19:30:50 -!- mode/##stm32 [+b *!*@host31-49-125-0.range31-49.btcentralplus.com] by englishman
2019-05-27T19:30:50 -!- Laurenceb_ was kicked from ##stm32 by englishman [Laurenceb_]
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2019-05-27T19:49:47 < englishman> vlc for Android is way better now
2019-05-27T19:54:15 < Steffanx> Has been ok for a while now.
2019-05-27T19:54:44 < Steffanx> Had to move to VLC because they pulled some other great player from the play store.
2019-05-27T19:54:50 < Steffanx> Because license crap
2019-05-27T19:55:40 < friendofafriend> VLC on Android doesn't do multicast.
2019-05-27T20:02:48 < Steffanx> ok
2019-05-27T20:03:05 < Steffanx> What does your friend think about that?
2019-05-27T20:04:55 < friendofafriend> Basically worse than 9/11.
2019-05-27T20:05:32 < Ultrasauce> ok multicast on android is fucking cursed in general
2019-05-27T20:05:45 < Ultrasauce> half the vendor distros dont even ship kernels with multicast support
2019-05-27T20:07:15 < friendofafriend> That's fairly awful.  Quite a lot of devices use it for video.
2019-05-27T20:07:37 < friendofafriend> That "HomeRun HD" thing comes to mind.
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2019-05-27T20:17:44 < BrainDamage> I use mpv on android too, but I guess that's not for everyone
2019-05-27T20:21:42 < Steffanx> hmm there is mpv-android
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2019-05-27T20:28:06 < qyx> englishman: last time I told you that you didn't believe
2019-05-27T20:28:49 < Steffanx> but it was shit 5 years ago.. nothing changes in 5 years
2019-05-27T20:29:04 < englishman> well, last time I tried it, it sucked.
2019-05-27T20:29:09 < englishman> foobar got deleted
2019-05-27T20:29:15 < qyx> lulz
2019-05-27T20:29:27 < dongs> real;ly? foobar is gone?
2019-05-27T20:29:31 < dongs> i just downloaded it like a week ago
2019-05-27T20:29:32 < dongs> lol
2019-05-27T20:29:35 < englishman> no
2019-05-27T20:29:37 < englishman> I deleted it
2019-05-27T20:29:41 < englishman> because it sucked
2019-05-27T20:30:27 < Steffanx> hm
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2019-05-27T20:33:08 < zyp> fucking printer bullshit
2019-05-27T20:34:15 < Steffanx> Damn is it rage o'clock?
2019-05-27T20:34:21 < zyp> yeah
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2019-05-27T20:35:11 < Steffanx> wast ist los?
2019-05-27T20:35:15 < Steffanx> -t
2019-05-27T20:35:26 < zyp> shit's not printing
2019-05-27T20:35:44 < Steffanx> Did you check if there is paper in it?
2019-05-27T20:35:51 < Steffanx> Did you check the power cord is connected?
2019-05-27T20:35:58 < zyp> yes, yes
2019-05-27T20:35:59 < Steffanx> Did you check it's on?
2019-05-27T20:36:06 < Steffanx> Did you check the ink level?
2019-05-27T20:36:07 < zyp> it's the driver that's being retarded
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2019-05-27T20:36:18 < Steffanx> > os x ? :P
2019-05-27T20:36:24 < zyp> pretending to send prints to the printer but they disappear somewhere along the way
2019-05-27T20:36:38 < zyp> had the same problem a year or two ago, forgot how I fixed it
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2019-05-27T20:43:33 < zyp> hmm, the new printer I've been eyeing were on a discount a few weeks ago, shame I missed it
2019-05-27T20:47:38 < zyp> some other company are selling it at like half price, and then charging just as much for shipping
2019-05-27T21:00:14 < Steffanx> and which one would that be?
2019-05-27T21:00:54 < Steffanx> ive like this old HP LaserJet 1022 which i bought ages ago for 10 euro.
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2019-05-27T21:04:31 < machinehum> If you want SDI + 4x SDO on QSPI how does one do this?
2019-05-27T21:04:43 < machinehum> Because Cube won't let me
2019-05-27T21:06:12 < friendofafriend> Got a Deskjet 2652 from the dumpster, oh sweet automatic paper feed for scanning.
2019-05-27T21:07:51 < boddax> my NeXT Laser Printer still working label say built in the 1993 400dpi
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2019-05-27T21:56:21 < mawk> is there some kind of convention to name power busses ?
2019-05-27T22:08:43 < machinehum> mawk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC_power-supply_pin
2019-05-27T22:09:02 < machinehum> It's more of a suggestion
2019-05-27T22:09:16 < mawk> thanks
2019-05-27T22:09:24 < mawk> yeah they speak about Vdd and stuff, but I already did this
2019-05-27T22:09:57 < mawk> my situation is I have VBAT, E5V, VBUS passing through an ORing controller to a switching regulator, out of the switching regulator I have 3V3
2019-05-27T22:10:03 < mawk> I don't know how to name the result of the ORing
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2019-05-27T23:21:16 < englishman> VSYS
2019-05-27T23:27:23 < Steffanx> msys
2019-05-27T23:28:07 < Steffanx> what is vsys mr englishman?
2019-05-27T23:28:16 < mawk> like VDD
2019-05-27T23:28:18 < mawk> or VBAT
2019-05-27T23:28:27 < Steffanx> oh its a response to mr mawk
2019-05-27T23:28:44 < englishman> yes. please try to keep up.
2019-05-27T23:28:50 < Steffanx> Sorry sorry englishman
2019-05-27T23:29:46 < Steffanx> it got pushed up by all the joins/quits of mr c10ud^
2019-05-27T23:30:58 < c10ud^> sorry, my wifi fucking sucks
2019-05-27T23:31:46 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-05-27T23:31:50 < englishman> lol
2019-05-27T23:32:22 < Steffanx> Did you pass the CE testing englishman?
2019-05-27T23:32:41 < englishman> no, it failed, but also for non CE reasons, and it's not my project
2019-05-27T23:33:15 < Steffanx> It will be
2019-05-27T23:34:22 < englishman> not if i retire first
2019-05-27T23:44:02 < mawk> then put the "china export" CE
2019-05-27T23:44:20 < mawk> almost same look
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2019-05-27T23:45:47 < Steffanx> Canada Export would do
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2019-05-28T00:39:15 < kakimir> https://i.imgur.com/6PQ1nHP.jpg
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2019-05-28T00:45:32 < zyp> Steffanx, the one I'm considering buying? xerox 6515
2019-05-28T00:45:58 < zyp> my old one is a hp clj 1600
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2019-05-28T00:52:04 < englishman> lol kakimir
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2019-05-28T00:52:43 < sync> https://www.aftonbladet.se/tv/a/287894 
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2019-05-28T01:04:37 < rajkosto> does SWD work just fine if you tie JTRST to GND permanently
2019-05-28T01:06:51 < rajkosto> basically i want to share the lines and i will tie TRST LOW the entire time im doing SWD programming so that the jtag device on the chain doesnt see weird stuff
2019-05-28T01:08:21 < kakimir> well
2019-05-28T01:08:26 < kakimir> it depends on chip
2019-05-28T01:09:06 < kakimir> why didn't you separate them lines?
2019-05-28T01:10:24 < rajkosto> should work fine i found another board where i manually connected it to gnd and it was fine
2019-05-28T01:23:20 < zyp> when the debug interface is in SWD mode, it only cares about SWCLK/SWDIO inputs
2019-05-28T01:24:19 < rajkosto> and its in SWD mode on reset ?
2019-05-28T01:24:20 < zyp> also, putting multiple devices on a jtag chain and then running swd on it seems like a bad idea
2019-05-28T01:24:51 < zyp> what's the other device on the chain?
2019-05-28T01:24:53 < rajkosto> its good ask aandrew 
2019-05-28T01:24:57 < rajkosto> fpga
2019-05-28T01:25:08 < zyp> just do a separate debug port for the fpga
2019-05-28T01:25:18 < rajkosto> still wanna tie TRST low on the stm32 though
2019-05-28T01:25:31 < zyp> the stm32 is not gonna care about trst
2019-05-28T01:26:01 < rajkosto> why not, it responds to it
2019-05-28T01:26:26 < zyp> not in swd mode AFAIK
2019-05-28T01:26:32 < rajkosto> what switches the modes
2019-05-28T01:26:42 < rajkosto> there should be a jtag TAP always active and its mode should be reset by pulling TRST low
2019-05-28T01:26:46 < zyp> a sequence fed into SWCLK/SWDIO
2019-05-28T01:26:48 < rajkosto> was just asking if it affects SWD similarly
2019-05-28T01:27:29 < zyp> dunno, it shouldn't
2019-05-28T01:27:49 < zyp> remember, some stm32s only does swd, and they don't even have a NJTRST pin
2019-05-28T01:43:02 < kiki_lamb> Has anyone been able to get a blue pill to play nicely with platform.io with working USB serial?
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2019-05-28T02:23:43 < mawk> which solder bridge symbol do you prefer ? https://pix.watch/YQt9iv/Tn1Clc.png
2019-05-28T02:24:10 < mawk> I can maybe increase curvature radius of the first one
2019-05-28T02:24:12 < rajkosto> top is default closed and bottom is default open ?
2019-05-28T02:24:22 < rajkosto> use both
2019-05-28T02:25:25 < mawk> the first is drawn closed and the second open yes, but it doesn't necessarily reflect
2019-05-28T02:25:42 < mawk> yeah I could use both I guess
2019-05-28T02:26:19 < mawk> for the pcb pattern I used the same one as ST, in the arrow shape, it's pretty nice
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2019-05-28T02:44:38 < bitmask> what
2019-05-28T02:44:38 < bitmask> a
2019-05-28T02:44:40 < bitmask> day
2019-05-28T02:44:46  * specing reboots bitmask
2019-05-28T02:44:53 < bitmask> :)
2019-05-28T02:45:44 < bitmask> delivered food for 6 hours on a hot holiday day. seemed like I was out there for 3 days straight.  
2019-05-28T02:46:02 < bitmask> made $110 though
2019-05-28T02:47:21 < mawk> good hourly rate
2019-05-28T02:47:37 < bitmask> yea, traffic sucked but it was worth it
2019-05-28T02:47:49 < mawk> on bike ?
2019-05-28T02:47:52 < bitmask> no car
2019-05-28T02:47:55 < mawk> ah
2019-05-28T02:55:06 < rajkosto> am i crazy for remembering stm32f103 had 2 separate i2c
2019-05-28T02:56:59 < mawk> no
2019-05-28T02:57:09 < mawk> you're right
2019-05-28T02:57:56 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-28_01-57-48_2ScvZpZXc.png https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-28_01-57-55_hr9meREu2.png
2019-05-28T02:57:59 < rajkosto> where i2c2
2019-05-28T02:58:26 < Ultrasauce> why would they both be on the same pins
2019-05-28T02:58:38 < rajkosto> different pins
2019-05-28T02:58:43 < rajkosto> and no other pins have i2c on them
2019-05-28T02:59:27 < Ultrasauce> i am going to go out on a limb here and posit that you're being misled by timecube
2019-05-28T02:59:31 < rajkosto> nvm i found them
2019-05-28T02:59:49 < rajkosto> the timecube knows all
2019-05-28T03:00:02 < rajkosto> like that our sun is not a sphere but a really quickly rotating cube
2019-05-28T03:03:26 < mawk> lol
2019-05-28T03:05:04 < rajkosto> why does Altium have the Y axis ALWAYS opposite to what i think it is so when i use Move by coordinates i always have to flip Y
2019-05-28T03:10:22 < mawk> grows downward ?
2019-05-28T03:10:53 < mawk> growing upward is the mathy way, downward is the computer graphics way
2019-05-28T03:11:04 < rajkosto> its always wrong
2019-05-28T03:11:08 < mawk> lol
2019-05-28T03:11:10 < rajkosto> X is easy, - is left, + is right
2019-05-28T03:11:17 < rajkosto> for Y, i always type in a value that i think is correct
2019-05-28T03:11:19 < rajkosto> and its wrong
2019-05-28T03:11:22 < rajkosto> so i have to undo and flip
2019-05-28T03:11:50 < rajkosto> i even intentionally flip it in head the first time thinking it will be right but tutnrs out thats wrong
2019-05-28T03:11:54 < rajkosto> its like usb superposition
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2019-05-28T03:37:09 < kiki_lamb> oh, here we go: https://community.platformio.org/t/difficulty-with-getting-usb-serial-usb-cdc-working/7501/5
2019-05-28T03:37:34 < kiki_lamb> apparently platform.io's blue pill scripts are just broken and are missing like 6 necessary defines
2019-05-28T03:40:37 < rajkosto> > using anything arduino
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2019-05-28T05:55:19 < dongs> Fucking garbage
2019-05-28T05:55:36 < dongs> https://imgur.com/a/xKL5vLv thanks chinks
2019-05-28T05:55:44 < dongs> for a wonderful fucking reference design
2019-05-28T05:56:58 < dongs> oh, isee whats wrong. they misnumbered the pins
2019-05-28T05:57:15 < dongs> on the schematic symbol
2019-05-28T05:57:18 < dongs> good thing im drawing my own
2019-05-28T05:57:27 < dongs> fuckin ridiculous
2019-05-28T06:01:48 < dongs> haha, they swapped CC1/2 and DP/DM port names in their symbol
2019-05-28T06:03:02 < englishman> chrome using 97% cpu
2019-05-28T06:03:09 < englishman> chrome's task manager says 5%
2019-05-28T06:03:11 < englishman> thanks chrome
2019-05-28T06:04:53 < dongs> yeah chrome is at the top of the list of my shit
2019-05-28T06:05:00 < dongs> doing nothing but a bunch of windows open
2019-05-28T06:06:21 < englishman> going back to lynx tbh
2019-05-28T06:06:27 < englishman> web4.0 does nothing for me
2019-05-28T06:06:37 < englishman> fuck no i am not going to buy a chevy no matter how many ads you show me
2019-05-28T06:06:59 < mawk> use an ad blocker
2019-05-28T06:07:01 < rajkosto> dongs, so which ones are correct
2019-05-28T06:07:03 < mawk> and you'll save tons of RAM too
2019-05-28T06:07:06 < rajkosto> the net names or the symbol names
2019-05-28T06:07:07 < englishman> /ignore mawk
2019-05-28T06:07:09 < mawk> :(
2019-05-28T06:07:22 < rajkosto> > year of our lord 20XX
2019-05-28T06:07:25 < rajkosto> > not using uBlock origin
2019-05-28T06:07:33 < mawk> I've seen very tech savvy people not using ad blocker
2019-05-28T06:07:36 < englishman> lol @ fucking up cc1/cc2 tho
2019-05-28T06:07:37 < mawk> so I ask
2019-05-28T06:07:37 < mawk> lol
2019-05-28T06:08:03 < dongs> rajkosto: the ones in datasheet
2019-05-28T06:08:15 < dongs> rajkosto: net names were correct
2019-05-28T06:08:21 < dongs> after swappage
2019-05-28T06:08:25 < dongs> of pin names
2019-05-28T06:09:44 < dongs> err, i dont know but wahtever. 14 = CC2, 15 = CC1, 16 = D-, 17 = D+
2019-05-28T06:10:03 < rajkosto> at least you know you have one thats correct
2019-05-28T06:10:06 < dongs> yeah
2019-05-28T06:10:35 < dongs> D+/D- net names are correct, pin numbers are wrong
2019-05-28T06:10:54 < dongs> CCx net names are wrong, pin numbers wrong too
2019-05-28T06:27:02 < rajkosto> who cares they are interchangeable anyway amirite
2019-05-28T06:32:28 < dongs> no
2019-05-28T06:32:37 < dongs> DP/DM isnt interchangeable
2019-05-28T06:32:50 < dongs> if I followed their symbol and made my own schematic, it would fail
2019-05-28T06:33:13 < dongs> CC1/2 probably doesnt matter
2019-05-28T06:34:03 < rajkosto> autoMDIX polarity swap detection when
2019-05-28T06:38:25 < dongs> well usbc solved it at the connector side as long as your hardware designer isnt a moron
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2019-05-28T06:54:14 < dongs> the fuck is a 1206 zener diode
2019-05-28T06:55:50 < rajkosto> its a zener diode in 1206 smd format
2019-05-28T06:56:21 < rajkosto> also called DO214AC i think
2019-05-28T06:58:04 < rajkosto> no DO-214AC is lots beefier
2019-05-28T06:58:04 < dongs> 214AC is not 1206
2019-05-28T06:58:07 < dongs> yes
2019-05-28T06:58:46 < rajkosto> SOD-123 ?
2019-05-28T06:59:05 < rajkosto> its either that or minimelf
2019-05-28T06:59:14 < dongs> https://www.elpro.org/gb/2805-05-w-smd-1206-zener-diodes
2019-05-28T06:59:21 < dongs> apparently 1206 'diode' actually does exist
2019-05-28T06:59:26 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-05-28T06:59:34 < dongs> but yeah im gonna just use a fucking SMA or SMB or so 
2019-05-28T06:59:39 < dongs> one of hte do-214 shits
2019-05-28T07:00:18 < rajkosto> minimelf is actually pretty similar to 1206 except height
2019-05-28T07:00:20 < rajkosto> and it looks cool
2019-05-28T07:00:54 < rajkosto> red stuff in glass
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2019-05-28T07:45:54 < ohsix> chrome: we love to touch page tables
2019-05-28T07:49:43 < rajkosto> should i bother with the transistor to pull usb+ to 3.3v
2019-05-28T07:49:55 < rajkosto> i havent before but it prevents you from getting unrecognized usb device while the code is uploading
2019-05-28T07:50:30 < dongs> you could if you want. 
2019-05-28T07:50:40 < rajkosto> its annoying if you dont
2019-05-28T07:50:59 < rajkosto> because without transistor its active when stm32 is reset/not running your code
2019-05-28T07:57:07 < dongs> yeah
2019-05-28T08:10:17 < rajkosto> why is that pullup even a thing
2019-05-28T08:14:00 < kiki_lamb> hmm, the f103 datasheet makes this comment about the timers: 'These timers are capable of handling quadrature (incremental) encoder signals' How's that work? I've never used a timer to handle a rotary encoder
2019-05-28T08:14:21 < kiki_lamb> usually I just poll 'em or run 'em on some input pin interrupts, depending on timing needs
2019-05-28T08:14:28 < rajkosto> hook up the 2 quadrature things to the 2 inputs of the timer
2019-05-28T08:14:49 < kiki_lamb> rajkosto: then configure the timer how? 
2019-05-28T08:14:54 < dongs> kiki_lamb: connect to CC1/CC2 of any timer
2019-05-28T08:15:03 < dongs> then as you rotate the knob the timer CNT will go up or down
2019-05-28T08:15:12 < dongs> for free, and you don't need to do anything
2019-05-28T08:15:30 < kiki_lamb> hmm... i wonder if i can find an example showing the exact details somewhere
2019-05-28T08:16:22 < dongs> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009XkibnSAB/stm32f107-quadrature-encoder-example
2019-05-28T08:16:32 < dongs> 2nd post.
2019-05-28T08:16:35 < dongs> by clive
2019-05-28T08:17:21 < kiki_lamb> awesome, i shall read that.
2019-05-28T08:33:07 < dongs> but yeah its basically boilerplate timer setup
2019-05-28T08:33:16 < dongs> and whatever your cube/whatever shit does for TIM_EncoderInterfaceConfig
2019-05-28T08:33:19 < dongs> which is the critical part
2019-05-28T08:33:26 < dongs> then you just read TIMx->CNT to get the encoder index
2019-05-28T08:33:30 < dongs> or setup interrupts/wahtever on update
2019-05-28T08:33:45 < rajkosto> i lost the name of the discovery schematics zip lol
2019-05-28T08:41:11 < rajkosto> MB1136 how could i forget
2019-05-28T09:14:55 < rajkosto> the REENUM transistor there makes no sense
2019-05-28T09:16:54 < rajkosto> since if the chip is in reset it will still have the pullup connected
2019-05-28T09:17:57 < dongs> このイベントでは、昨年末に「Altium 2018 PCB設計セミナー」で紹介した機能の一部のデモ、プレゼンを行います。また、お客様とより親密にAltium Designer®について（現在のところ、バージョン19の機能に限定しています）質疑応答ができる時間も設けています。
2019-05-28T09:18:02 < dongs> altidumb open day 6/7
2019-05-28T09:18:05 < dongs> do I attend or not waste my time
2019-05-28T09:18:10 < rajkosto> not waste your time
2019-05-28T09:19:06 < rajkosto> with this arrangement https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-28_08-18-50_EXh83Zxwp.png the pullup is always active unless stm32 actively drives USB_RENUMn low
2019-05-28T09:19:15 < rajkosto> defeats the point of what i wanted
2019-05-28T09:20:48 < dongs> just do the opposite then?
2019-05-28T09:20:55 < dongs> default pulldown
2019-05-28T09:22:12 < rajkosto> cant that be done way easier dont need that much components
2019-05-28T09:22:58 < dongs> 'that much'?
2019-05-28T09:23:04 < dongs> a transistor and some R's?
2019-05-28T09:23:16 < rajkosto> yes
2019-05-28T09:23:21 < dongs> thats not a lot?
2019-05-28T09:23:23 < dongs> you fucking jew
2019-05-28T09:23:27 < rajkosto> cant fit
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2019-05-28T09:23:51 < dongs> use SOT-353 or wahtever transistor
2019-05-28T09:24:05 < dongs> smaller than SC-70
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2019-05-28T09:27:59 < rajkosto> with their arrangement you cant remove the 5V pullup
2019-05-28T09:28:22 < rajkosto> you cant reverse it
2019-05-28T09:28:34 < rajkosto> its why they use a voltage divider with 5V not 3.3v
2019-05-28T09:28:56 < rajkosto> voltage on base of 3.9V is large enough for the transistor to conduct, 3.3v wouldnt be
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2019-05-28T09:41:08 < dongs> oh how much i fucking hate the retarded new altifuck color picker
2019-05-28T09:41:24 < dongs> is tehre no fuckign way to go back to old normal one
2019-05-28T09:41:49 < rajkosto> i think i will just use your PMOS instead
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2019-05-28T09:46:41 < dongs> i cant even figure out how to get an existing color number saved
2019-05-28T09:46:43 < dongs> WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT
2019-05-28T09:48:53 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/Px9RHqt.png this is different color right
2019-05-28T09:49:13 < rajkosto> yee
2019-05-28T09:49:21 < dongs> well i cant figure out waht left side color is
2019-05-28T09:49:25 < dongs> i click on it, it just shows 00 00 ff
2019-05-28T09:49:26 < dongs> in teh fucking picker
2019-05-28T09:49:34 < dongs> the GAY FUCKING NGIGER JEW FAGGOT PICKER THAT THEY REPLACED NORMAL SHIT WITH
2019-05-28T09:49:35 < rajkosto> 0,0,176 vs 0,0,255
2019-05-28T09:49:52 < dongs> aight that fixed it
2019-05-28T09:50:19 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/7PJ9VWj.png who thought this abortion was a good idea??
2019-05-28T09:50:37 < rajkosto> looks like something made in javascript for a webpage
2019-05-28T09:50:38 < dongs> its fucking msoffice color picker
2019-05-28T09:50:58 < dongs> you can access the old one during setting net color names
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2019-05-28T11:31:46 < Thorn> I found a way to print fixed point numbers in decimal with arbitrary rounding
2019-05-28T11:32:48 < Thorn> however there is / 10 and % 10 for every digit which is of course not ideal on cortex-m
2019-05-28T11:36:09 < zyp> when I had an assembly on microcontroller course in uni, I found a trick to print integers in decimal without divs
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2019-05-28T11:43:36 < zyp> x / 10 equals x * 1.6 >> 4, you can approximate that by x * int(1.6 * 2**n) >> (4 + n), picking an n that fits your data and variable sizes
2019-05-28T11:46:01 < zyp> n=6 fits two-digit numbers: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/IxZoh
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2019-05-28T11:55:04 < Thorn> is it possible to implement a single cycle /10 and/or %10 assembly instruction?
2019-05-28T11:55:36 < Thorn> assuming the cpu already has a multiplier
2019-05-28T11:58:25 < zyp> for a given integer range, sure
2019-05-28T12:19:05 < dongs> you mean by using a lookup table?
2019-05-28T12:22:00 < zyp> no
2019-05-28T12:33:01 < jpa-> multiply by reciprocal
2019-05-28T12:33:29 < jpa-> but quite difficult to get it to really single cycle, as you usually need a shift afterwards
2019-05-28T12:34:02 < Thorn> I can live with 2-3 cycles lol
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2019-05-28T12:35:47 < jpa-> on cortex-m, multiplying by (1LL<<32)/10 works reasonably fast and well, then just take the top word from the multiply output
2019-05-28T12:36:20 < jpa-> not sure if there is a faster trick for %10, but you can always do    original_value - division_result * 10
2019-05-28T12:36:48 < zyp> cortex-m shifts are free
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2019-05-28T12:54:52 < karlp> free?! do you _know_ what that does to the free market?! who's paying for this?!
2019-05-28T12:55:16 < zyp> *yawn*
2019-05-28T12:58:37 < zyp> in C, if I have a function taking an union type and I have a variable of one of the types in the union, is there a quick way to cast it?
2019-05-28T12:59:06 < rajkosto> var = unionVar.memberName; ?
2019-05-28T12:59:50 < zyp> other way around
2019-05-28T13:00:17 < rajkosto> unionVar.memberName = var; ?
2019-05-28T13:00:28 < zyp> foo(uniontype x) and I wanna do foo(y)
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2019-05-28T13:00:49 < rajkosto> foo(x.memberName) ?
2019-05-28T13:01:25 < zyp> if it were that obvious, I wouldn't ask.
2019-05-28T13:02:47  * karlp laughs
2019-05-28T13:02:56 < rajkosto> what else could it be
2019-05-28T13:03:08 < rajkosto> a union has a memberName for each of the types it can contain
2019-05-28T13:03:29 < zyp> you're giving me answers for casting from a union, I wanna cast to a union
2019-05-28T13:03:56 < rajkosto> you gotta make a new var and set the appripriate member
2019-05-28T13:04:11 < zyp> that's what I would prefer to avoid
2019-05-28T13:04:13 < rajkosto> just make a function that does that for you since you cant use constructors/templates ;)
2019-05-28T13:04:36  * karlp laughs at the acer keyboard from yesterday
2019-05-28T13:04:43 < dongs> eya man
2019-05-28T13:04:45 < rajkosto> wait you can use structured initialization
2019-05-28T13:04:49 < dongs> that shit is disgusting
2019-05-28T13:05:00 < rajkosto> but in C that only works when declaring a new variable as well
2019-05-28T13:05:05 < rajkosto> switch to C++
2019-05-28T13:05:31 < zyp> okay, fuck unions then
2019-05-28T13:05:33 < rajkosto> UnionType tempVar = { .memberName = initializer; };
2019-05-28T13:05:58 < rajkosto> i dont think you can do it without the tempVar in C
2019-05-28T13:06:21 < rajkosto> or a function that returns it
2019-05-28T13:07:01 < zyp> there's a gcc extension that allows it, but I'm not using gcc
2019-05-28T13:07:02 < zyp> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-5.1.0/gcc/Cast-to-Union.html
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2019-05-28T13:07:22 < karlp> qyx: yeha, I don't have nss available, and I've already tried with a delay after cs assert, I don't thkn that's the problem though, first transfer after reset is flawless, with no delay, I think my problem is in the de-assert and reset.
2019-05-28T13:07:33 < zyp> so whatever
2019-05-28T13:07:47 < rajkosto> karlp, are you waiting for spi busy to be false before switching cs again
2019-05-28T13:07:56 < dongs> shit, there's 16:10 4K screens now
2019-05-28T13:07:58 < dongs> 3840x2400
2019-05-28T13:07:59 < dongs> neat
2019-05-28T13:08:02 < rajkosto> its not enough for the buffer to be empty, as the last byte/word can still be transferring
2019-05-28T13:08:13 < dongs> the new dell 13" has that but its fucking Killer Wifi
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2019-05-28T13:10:47 < rajkosto> dongs, is there a chaper hdmi to 1440p60 mipi converter than 70$
2019-05-28T13:10:57 < dongs> 70$whats?
2019-05-28T13:11:15 < rajkosto> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-5-inch-LCD-screen-display-with-HDMI-top-MIPI-controller-board-for-WANHAO-D7/32820986560.html
2019-05-28T13:11:24 < rajkosto> 23$ for the lcd and then 70$ for the converter oof
2019-05-28T13:12:01 < dongs> 6.0" MIPI>HDMI 1440*2560		4	US$54.50 
2019-05-28T13:12:09 < dongs> chinagirl sends them to me for this shipped
2019-05-28T13:12:21 < rajkosto> actually that shit is 51% off atm
2019-05-28T13:12:29 < rajkosto> so its 43$ for the board now
2019-05-28T13:12:37 < dongs> donno, 54$ is board + lcd
2019-05-28T13:12:38 < dongs> here
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2019-05-28T13:16:03 < sync> oh neat dongs
2019-05-28T13:17:14 < dongs> karlp: apparently marketing department doesnt know what the fuck is going on https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16025437/DSC02925.jpg
2019-05-28T13:17:27 < dongs> karlp: the real hardware with non-rendered keys is acutally proper
2019-05-28T13:17:35 < karlp> sync: fuck aftonbladet in their ad prerolls.  _two_ ads before the video?! wat.....
2019-05-28T13:17:39 < dongs> which makes that actually a very nice keyboard
2019-05-28T13:17:55 < dongs> even has right click windows key
2019-05-28T13:22:17 < sync> karlp: I did not see any ads, but I guess
2019-05-28T13:27:04 < rajkosto> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1mA5vaLfsK1RjSszbq6AqBXXa2.jpg how terrifying
2019-05-28T13:27:12 < englishman> same. but i didn't click
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2019-05-28T14:51:18 < karlp> https://www.facebook.com/extremechill/photos/a.10152216717536133/10157506845316133/?type=3&theater
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2019-05-28T15:39:24 < karlp> Steffanx: so, were you in the 1/4 of holland that -didn't- watch eurovision?
2019-05-28T15:41:38 < sync> karlp: do you know what the place in the picture is?
2019-05-28T15:44:01 < karlp> yes, it's why I shared it.
2019-05-28T15:44:12 < karlp> it's kinda a dumb picture ifyou don't know that...
2019-05-28T15:44:28 < karlp> not really even channel  appropriate...
2019-05-28T15:44:46 < karlp> but we have music links sometimes so.... :)
2019-05-28T15:45:30 < karlp> 98.4% viewership for eurovision here.  winning.... sort of  I guess : https://www.ebu.ch/news/2019/05/182-million-tune-in-to-64th-eurovision-song-contest-as-young-audience-numbers-surge?fbclid=IwAR0nsYVX-jk3flqrOR9cEh3ked0MI6sZVEztYxXAi_7pPcqA2YQHRz6ZtpM
2019-05-28T15:45:47 < karlp> fucking fbclik tracking craps
2019-05-28T15:45:56 < karlp> I wasn't even on facebook
2019-05-28T15:46:28 < sync> on weekdays it's not really true tho
2019-05-28T15:46:53 < karlp> just thought it was a nice mashup
2019-05-28T15:47:11  * karlp has never been anyway
2019-05-28T15:51:07 < karlp> been here though: https://www.residentadvisor.net/club.aspx?id=4907
2019-05-28T15:52:26 < sync> oh god
2019-05-28T15:53:53 < karlp> did I just step into german regional rivalries? ;)
2019-05-28T15:54:13 < sync> no
2019-05-28T15:54:51 < sync> just the gängevirtel button on the fence
2019-05-28T15:55:22 < karlp> that doesnt mean anything to me sorry.
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2019-05-28T15:55:45 < zyp> I'm not following the context here
2019-05-28T15:55:48 < karlp> komm in die gange?
2019-05-28T15:55:50 < zyp> what's the place in the picture?
2019-05-28T15:56:13 < karlp> the first one with the everest line is berghain, big techno nightclub
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2019-05-28T15:56:46 < zyp> oh
2019-05-28T15:56:58 < zyp> looked like it were supposed to be a concentration camp or something
2019-05-28T15:57:17 < karlp> nah, just known for having lines and a "strict" door policy
2019-05-28T15:57:42 < zyp> that makes sense
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2019-05-28T16:01:02 < karlp> not sure what sync's concern is though. seems to be against this: https://www.hamburg.com/alternative/11747640/gaengeviertel/ butnot sure I follow why
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2019-05-28T16:07:50 < zyp> looking at getting a PV system for my roof
2019-05-28T16:09:07 < karlp> we've had more sun in may than all of last year.
2019-05-28T16:09:09 < zyp> did some estimates and it seems like I'm only looking at 4-5 years to break even
2019-05-28T16:09:27 < karlp> do you (still?) get subsidies on the purchase?
2019-05-28T16:09:39 < karlp> how much wattage are you looking at?
2019-05-28T16:09:42 < zyp> yes, up to 35% covered, those are factored in
2019-05-28T16:09:57 < karlp> what's the buyback from the grid like?
2019-05-28T16:09:59 < zyp> I'm looking at something like 4.4kWp
2019-05-28T16:10:38 < zyp> depends on your power contract, some companies apparently pay up to 1.1 NOK/kWh for a limited number of kWh per year
2019-05-28T16:12:11 < karlp> don't you only pay like 1.1-1.5/kwh _from_ the grid?
2019-05-28T16:12:32 < zyp> probably less :)
2019-05-28T16:12:53 < zyp> so I'm not sure what their business model really is
2019-05-28T16:14:41 < zyp> let's see here, in april I paid .4698 NOK/kWh in electricity and .3933 NOK/kWh in grid fee and taxes
2019-05-28T16:14:53 < zyp> so around .85 NOK/kWh
2019-05-28T16:15:30 < zyp> selling it at the spot price should net me around .5 NOK/kWh then
2019-05-28T16:16:28 < karlp> how's the accounting for spot sales done?
2019-05-28T16:16:42 < karlp> and it's not like yo ucan choose when to sell right?
2019-05-28T16:17:12 < zyp> depends
2019-05-28T16:17:22 < zyp> I can choose when to charge cars and when to heat water
2019-05-28T16:17:53 < zyp> shifting consumption around to when it's cheapest to consume
2019-05-28T16:18:17 < zyp> I think power meters are reporting hourly
2019-05-28T16:18:26 < Cracki> business model is probably tax breaks and/or subsidies
2019-05-28T16:19:18 < zyp> yeah, I'm just not sure where those subsidies are coming from
2019-05-28T16:19:40 < Cracki> from the tax payers ;) or they're taxing oil companies
2019-05-28T16:20:25 < Cracki> natural resources significantly contribute to norway's wealth, don't they
2019-05-28T16:20:31 < zyp> yes
2019-05-28T16:21:35 < karlp> we've had lykkeland on tv here :)
2019-05-28T16:21:49 < zyp> hmm, I never finished watching that
2019-05-28T16:22:43 < zyp> so anyway, I'm planning to go for a PV system with microinverters, so I'm tempted to start with one inverter and maybe a couple of panels first
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2019-05-28T16:24:10 < zyp> do some real world measurements and see how profitability works out vs the estimates I've got
2019-05-28T16:26:08 < Cracki> and of course there are calculators for that http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php
2019-05-28T16:26:41 < zyp> https://emea.apsystems.com/portfolio-item/apsystems-yc1000/ <- seems like I can get these at a decent price
2019-05-28T16:27:48 < zyp> Cracki, yeah, I've already looked at calculators that claims I can produce like 5000 kWh per year
2019-05-28T16:28:28 < Cracki> with enough area. your roof looked good
2019-05-28T16:29:05 < Cracki> and the right slant and direction of course
2019-05-28T16:30:05 < jpa-> zyp: do you have separate electricity transport fees in norway? here in .fi, if one wants to sell electricity from solar panels you get basically nothing, because the transport fee is almost as high as the price of the electricity
2019-05-28T16:30:13 < Cracki> *g* north-slanted outhouse with 5v phone charger
2019-05-28T16:30:51 < zyp> jpa-, yes, that's the .3933 I quoted
2019-05-28T16:31:06 < jpa-> ah, so you did
2019-05-28T16:31:09 < karlp> separate transport was "energy pack 2" iirc.
2019-05-28T16:31:33 < karlp> might even have been in the first one.
2019-05-28T16:35:24 < zyp> jpa-, that's why selling at a subsidised rate is interesting, as long as that offer lasts
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2019-05-28T16:41:17 < bitmask> w00t 144 led strip arrives today
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2019-05-28T17:09:51 < xoomas> hello. playing with stm32 "blue pill" for the first time.. and cant figure out how do i start application inside uC without pressing reset button.. (Yes there is tick on "Reset and Run")
2019-05-28T17:10:32 < jpa-> you might want to mention what software you are using on PC, considering there are bazillion alternatives
2019-05-28T17:10:49 < xoomas> uVision
2019-05-28T17:10:52 < xoomas> Keil
2019-05-28T17:13:53 < dongs> what? 'start application inside uc" in what sense?
2019-05-28T17:14:41 < dongs> download->flash will upload and run it. if you want to jsut start it, use ozone debugger separately
2019-05-28T17:14:49 < xoomas> after download it to flash
2019-05-28T17:15:13 < xoomas> dongs but it doesnt run
2019-05-28T17:15:33 < xoomas> thats what im trying to say :) sorry for my bad english
2019-05-28T17:16:03 < dongs> under flash download, 'reset and run' checked will run it.
2019-05-28T17:16:23 < dongs> also under debug, 'load application at startup' and 'run to main' (unless you want to debug startup code
2019-05-28T17:16:30 < dongs> worksonmymachine.pro
2019-05-28T17:16:32 < xoomas> it shows in Build Output: Application running ... but nothing is running actualy
2019-05-28T17:16:41 < dongs> then its not running
2019-05-28T17:16:45 < dongs> attach under debugger and see.
2019-05-28T17:17:16 < xoomas> im first time using stm32 not sure how attach to debugger
2019-05-28T17:17:47 < dongs> debug->start/stop
2019-05-28T17:17:49 < dongs> in keil.
2019-05-28T17:18:40 < xoomas> on debugger i can run and stop it
2019-05-28T17:18:47 < xoomas> led starts to blink
2019-05-28T17:19:19 < dongs> is your boot0 floating
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2019-05-28T17:19:46 < xoomas> there is 2 jumpers set on zero
2019-05-28T17:24:18 < xoomas> Cannot access Memory
2019-05-28T17:24:18 < xoomas> Error while accessing a target resource. Resource perhaps not available or a wrong access was attempted.
2019-05-28T17:24:18 < xoomas> *** error 57: illegal address (0x0800000
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2019-05-28T17:27:07 < xoomas> is this good:
2019-05-28T17:27:08 < xoomas> --ro-base 0x08000000 --entry 0x08000000 --rw-base 0x20000000 --entry Reset_Handler --first __Vectors --strict --summary_stderr --info summarysizes --map --xref --callgraph --symbols
2019-05-28T17:28:35 < mawk> 0x08000000 is the flash
2019-05-28T17:28:39 < mawk> how can it be illegal
2019-05-28T17:29:08 < xoomas> i have no idea
2019-05-28T17:30:06 < xoomas> can it be because of limited version of keil?
2019-05-28T17:30:15 < mawk> I don't think so
2019-05-28T17:30:31 < mawk> you wouldn't get such message
2019-05-28T17:30:40 < mawk> ah
2019-05-28T17:30:43 < mawk> but the address is wrong
2019-05-28T17:30:51 < mawk> it says 0x0800000, it should be 0x08000000
2019-05-28T17:30:54 < mawk> missing a zero
2019-05-28T17:31:07 < mawk> you made a typo somewhere
2019-05-28T17:31:21 < xoomas> i think i copy bad
2019-05-28T17:31:40 < xoomas> or it cut by it self
2019-05-28T17:31:42 < xoomas> *** error 57: illegal address (0x08000000)
2019-05-28T17:31:59 < xoomas> tryed to copy 2 lines at once
2019-05-28T17:34:04 < xoomas> any ideas why this is happening?
2019-05-28T17:34:50 < mawk> you got it running at least once right
2019-05-28T17:35:24 < xoomas> it runs everytime i press reset button
2019-05-28T17:35:36 < xoomas> but doesnt run after flash
2019-05-28T17:46:07 < sync> no bit is illegal
2019-05-28T17:53:53 < Mangy_Dog> Sir i am arresting you for crimes of putting data into illegal memory, come ere you scum!
2019-05-28T17:57:27 < dongs> attn zyp https://i.imgur.com/mIRFc3a.png
2019-05-28T17:58:40 < xoomas> where i should put it? :)
2019-05-28T17:59:32 < dongs> in your mcu config, project properties.
2019-05-28T17:59:39 < dongs> you should have ram/rom map there with ccorrect address
2019-05-28T17:59:49 < dongs> but all this should have been automatic
2019-05-28T17:59:51 < dongs> unless you fcked with stuff
2019-05-28T18:00:17 < dongs> options for target -> IROM1 address 0x8000000 and size to wahtever, 
2019-05-28T18:00:22 < xoomas> i just set memory in keil that was shown on youtube
2019-05-28T18:00:28 < dongs> 'youtube'
2019-05-28T18:00:30 < dongs> well then you missed a zero
2019-05-28T18:00:41 < xoomas> its not that
2019-05-28T18:00:50 < xoomas> i set only half size
2019-05-28T18:01:00 < xoomas> as it shows taht this blue pill is 128k
2019-05-28T18:01:15 < dongs> they're generally shipped with C8T6 which is "officially" a 64K part
2019-05-28T18:03:32 < xoomas> https://i.imgur.com/qSiKJhp.png
2019-05-28T18:03:52 < dongs> yeah
2019-05-28T18:03:53 < xoomas> i changed size from 0x00020000
2019-05-28T18:04:02 < xoomas> to 0x00010000
2019-05-28T18:04:14 < dongs> doesnt matter but ok
2019-05-28T18:04:52 < xoomas> and i put tick on reset and run
2019-05-28T18:05:03 < xoomas> but it just dont run by it self ;)
2019-05-28T18:05:22 < xoomas> have to press reset button every fw upload
2019-05-28T18:09:26 < dongs> what debug probe? stlink clone?
2019-05-28T18:11:34 < xoomas> yeah
2019-05-28T18:11:37 < xoomas> v2
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2019-05-28T18:28:49 < xoomas> no more ideas?
2019-05-28T18:34:47 < dongs> works for me
2019-05-28T18:34:56 < dongs> F8/whatever flashes and runs.
2019-05-28T18:35:01 < dongs> but i dont use stlink
2019-05-28T18:35:04 < dongs> that would be the only problem.
2019-05-28T18:35:09 < dongs> try upgrading its firmware or whatever, i dont knwo
2019-05-28T18:35:15 < dongs> (or not cuz that might brick chink clone)
2019-05-28T18:35:32 < xoomas> i already updated fw 2 times
2019-05-28T18:35:40 < mawk> become a pro xoomas buy a real stlink
2019-05-28T18:35:40 < xoomas> one time when i first got it
2019-05-28T18:35:48 < mawk> you have stlink v3 which is out
2019-05-28T18:36:31 < xoomas> im wondering maybe startup file is not good
2019-05-28T18:36:56 < mawk> maybe
2019-05-28T18:37:03 < mawk> but wouldn't produce that error
2019-05-28T18:37:07 < mawk> 0x08000000 is always correct
2019-05-28T18:37:11 < mawk> it's always the flash address
2019-05-28T18:37:18 < xoomas> https://pastebin.com/CWhTB4mh
2019-05-28T18:37:41 < mawk> yeah classic stuff
2019-05-28T18:37:43 < mawk> no problem here
2019-05-28T18:37:48 < mawk> you didn't touch it anyway
2019-05-28T18:38:01 < xoomas> ok
2019-05-28T18:40:15 < xoomas> is there any example in keil so i can just uplaod and see?
2019-05-28T18:40:32 < mawk> or examples not in keil maybe
2019-05-28T18:40:43 < mawk> if you're not extra familiar with it and you just want to assess your tools
2019-05-28T18:40:49 < mawk> using linux ?
2019-05-28T18:41:36 < xoomas> nop windows
2019-05-28T18:42:13 < xoomas> i want example in keil so i can use same upload (F8)
2019-05-28T18:42:37 < mawk> well a blank project should run fine
2019-05-28T18:48:00 < xoomas> but you cant tell if its running or not :)
2019-05-28T18:48:07 < xoomas> need atleast to blink led
2019-05-28T18:51:29 < dongs> cube comes with fucking keil exmaples
2019-05-28T18:51:31 < dongs> just double click and run
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2019-05-28T19:07:42 < Cracki> xoomas, how DO you tell whether the program is running on the target or not?
2019-05-28T19:08:07 < xoomas> i see led blinking
2019-05-28T19:10:23 < bitmask> damn, this crimping die doesnt fit, looks like a useful set too
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2019-05-28T19:27:47 < englishman> wow 1kW grid tie inverters
2019-05-28T19:27:49 < englishman> adorable
2019-05-28T19:27:57 < englishman> what a great idea
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2019-05-28T21:50:14 < zyp> englishman, for microinverters they are fairly big, since they are four in one
2019-05-28T21:51:16 < zyp> main reason I'm interested in those is because they are the only three phase microinverters I've found on the market
2019-05-28T21:51:56 < zyp> and it seems a lot neater to have a single three phase bus rather than to distribute inverters across three single phase buses
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2019-05-28T22:01:52 < boddax> with stm32f103 there hw difference beetwen usb configured as com port or port using dll driver not recognized as com port?
2019-05-28T22:02:51 < boddax> or only code difference?
2019-05-28T22:03:26 < zyp> only code difference
2019-05-28T22:04:28 < boddax> zyp thanks
2019-05-28T22:05:00 < zyp> «dll driver» isn't really the right way to put it, but still
2019-05-28T22:06:15 < zyp> what signal what kind of device a usb device is is the descriptors it announces to the host
2019-05-28T22:06:40 < boddax> yes i an still working with same cnc stm32 have a usb port but need RnRMotion.dll driver
2019-05-28T22:07:19 < boddax> since i replaced the stm32 from the board actually cannot remember
2019-05-28T22:08:31 < boddax> put new firmware that i tested with blue-pill working ..with this board successful uploaded file but no sign of life when i plug the usb connector
2019-05-28T22:09:00 < boddax> uses same pin 44 and 45 PA11 and PA12
2019-05-28T22:15:55 < boddax> this board dont have rtc 32khz crystal ..make difference?
2019-05-28T22:16:12 < zyp> only if the software tries using it
2019-05-28T22:16:44 < boddax> i need to check the source
2019-05-28T22:24:12 < boddax> void WEAK  RTC_IRQHandler(void); is related?
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2019-05-28T23:26:21 < karlp> smart watches are so yesterday, check out today! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fovea/fovea-wearable-embedded-multimeter
2019-05-28T23:31:44 < specing> karlp: needs probes in the form of nail extensions
2019-05-28T23:34:48 < zyp> today in the series «e-golf moves stuff it's not designed for»: I picked up close to a ton of pavement tiles: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/xTboK.jpg
2019-05-28T23:36:31 < qyx> are they the very-hard-to-get ones?
2019-05-28T23:36:51 < zyp> I had to order them, yes
2019-05-28T23:37:09 < zyp> told the guy yesterday «okay, I want 60 for now» «sure»
2019-05-28T23:37:22 < zyp> «uh, factory replied, they only sell full pallets of 300»
2019-05-28T23:37:32 < Cracki> they don't have such a common item ready by the pallet?
2019-05-28T23:38:05 < qyx> apparently not that common in norway
2019-05-28T23:38:05 < zyp> plain square tiles are stocked everywhere
2019-05-28T23:38:14 < Cracki> 150 are sitting on your porch there
2019-05-28T23:38:23 < zyp> these are designed with a few mm of spacing between each
2019-05-28T23:38:25 < Cracki> those have those ridges, but even that must be common
2019-05-28T23:38:31 < zyp> yeah, gonna pick up the other half tomorrow
2019-05-28T23:39:00 < qyx> wat, did you move them at once?
2019-05-28T23:39:09 < qyx> 1t in the e-golf?
2019-05-28T23:39:40 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGhzzcgfHNc
2019-05-28T23:40:24 < Cracki> dutch tech
2019-05-28T23:41:10 < zyp> qyx, no, I took two trips and my wife took one
2019-05-28T23:41:18 < zyp> (in the ion)
2019-05-28T23:41:26 < Cracki> not to forget, pallets come neatly packed, there are "tongs" that can grab a full layer and place it
2019-05-28T23:41:49 < zyp> qyx, car's rated for 395kg of payload :p
2019-05-28T23:43:19 < qyx> O_o I wouldn't dare to carry 395kg even in opel astra
2019-05-28T23:48:15 < karlp> that's only like three american passengers right?
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2019-05-28T23:49:22 < specing> karlp: yeah
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2019-05-29T01:42:05 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-29_00-41-38_Bwm8JrYm1.png wonder if this is thin enough to break off
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2019-05-29T02:22:35 < englishman> anyone used ifttt
2019-05-29T02:22:57 < englishman> it doesn't really work with mqtt without a bunch of extra opensores trash on shitberreypi does it
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2019-05-29T02:58:27 < dongs> lol? Apple announces new ipod touch
2019-05-29T02:58:37 < dongs> did they run out of retarded shit to release
2019-05-29T02:58:41 < mawk> lol
2019-05-29T02:59:23 < mawk> yeah my local tech newspaper titled "Drunk Apple releases new iPod Touch"
2019-05-29T02:59:31 < dongs> $199 for 32gb media player lmao
2019-05-29T02:59:37 < dongs> without SD as well
2019-05-29T02:59:52 < mawk> yeah but you can play candy crush
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2019-05-29T03:05:43 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJQP65NiU7Q retweet from stonertronics
2019-05-29T03:20:36 < mawk> «Hi american stupid. How about the current???? Its more importent than the voltage»
2019-05-29T03:38:40 < sync> lul dongs
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2019-05-29T04:14:15 < englishman> lol @ fixing one wire and knocking off the other one like 5 times
2019-05-29T04:15:44 < dongs> you actually watched through those parts?
2019-05-29T04:16:02 < dongs> also why did he scratch the diode legs before applying solder
2019-05-29T04:16:06 < dongs> isnt that shit already pre-tinned
2019-05-29T04:16:50 < Cracki> it's not lacquered like the copper wire might have been
2019-05-29T04:16:54 < dongs> right
2019-05-29T04:17:10 < Cracki> maybe he's a boxcutter raccoon
2019-05-29T04:17:15 < Cracki> has to boxcut all the wires
2019-05-29T04:17:35 < englishman> yeah i watched the whole thing intently start to finish
2019-05-29T04:17:36 < Cracki> also, press J/K/L to skip 10 secs or pause
2019-05-29T04:21:40 < englishman> hmm gotta order another 40k of scamtec cables
2019-05-29T04:21:44 < dongs> uh? arrow keys work
2019-05-29T04:22:13 < englishman> oh are you talking to someone
2019-05-29T04:22:18 < englishman> see you l8r
2019-05-29T04:22:18 < dongs> lul
2019-05-29T04:22:25 < dongs> you got cranki on ignore?
2019-05-29T04:25:00 < Cracki> who has
2019-05-29T04:25:10 < mawk> the english man
2019-05-29T04:25:19 < Cracki> haha good
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2019-05-29T06:43:10 < englishman> aidsfruit ii a
2019-05-29T06:43:30 < englishman> Io allows 2 and exactly 2 slashes in mqtt topics
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2019-05-29T07:14:00 < Thorn> <Steffanx> fake news
2019-05-29T07:14:10 < Thorn> <ST Microelectronics> https://blog.st.com/stm32g4-mixed-signal-mcu/
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2019-05-29T07:52:27 < dongs> altidumb is do damn slow switching between schematics in tiled mode
2019-05-29T07:52:30 < dongs> the fuck is this shit
2019-05-29T07:52:34 < dongs> do=so
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2019-05-29T07:52:48 < dongs> i wonder if I should try 19.1
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2019-05-29T08:15:55 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-29_07-07-25_l7m4hmr3e.png how bad is this
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2019-05-29T08:26:48 < Thorn> rajkosto: post isolated copper layers
2019-05-29T08:26:55 < Thorn> also where is the gnd plane
2019-05-29T08:27:09 < rajkosto> didnt add polygon pours yet
2019-05-29T08:28:32 < Thorn> aren't those mounting holes close to the edges
2019-05-29T08:28:41 < rajkosto> extremely
2019-05-29T08:28:51 < Thorn> besides scew head diameter = 2x shaft diameter
2019-05-29T08:29:46 < Thorn> U1, U4 seem close to holes at the bottom
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2019-05-29T08:30:24 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-29_07-30-20_vEwORCoNt.png probably
2019-05-29T08:31:26 < rajkosto> they wont touch the pads though
2019-05-29T08:45:03 < qyx> in 19.1 they will disable more color pickers
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2019-05-29T09:32:44 < dongs> wat sorta IoT device is taht anyway, raf
2019-05-29T09:32:46 < dongs> raj
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2019-05-29T09:40:42 < rajkosto> dont think IoT devices have oozb
2019-05-29T09:42:59 < qyx> why are you doing 0.00001mm traces
2019-05-29T09:43:07 < rajkosto> i am ?
2019-05-29T09:43:21 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-29_08-43-19_LkrwbKOVs.png
2019-05-29T09:45:00 < qyx> they looked like that
2019-05-29T09:45:16 < qyx> and you are missing via stitching
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2019-05-29T09:46:07 < rajkosto> what via stitching am i missing
2019-05-29T09:46:52 < qyx> there are edges
2019-05-29T09:46:55 < qyx> flying edges!
2019-05-29T09:47:05 < rajkosto> wot
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2019-05-29T09:52:09 < Thorn> rajkosto: some of your stiching vias are intruding into the gap between gnd and a trace (top right)
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2019-05-29T09:52:51 < Thorn> also why do you have a trace from a TH pad that ends in a via
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2019-05-29T09:53:05 < Thorn> actually 2 traces
2019-05-29T09:53:13 < Thorn> is there something crossing them on the other side?
2019-05-29T09:56:48 < Thorn> same about the vias in the gnd pad of the qfn(?), they're too close to the edges of the pad
2019-05-29T09:59:52 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-29_08-59-50_myYeP8ROY.png what do you mean
2019-05-29T10:00:22 < rajkosto> still passes clearance
2019-05-29T10:00:38 < rajkosto> they overlap in the sections where the pins arent
2019-05-29T10:01:20 < Thorn> anything that helps avoid solder bridges is a good thing
2019-05-29T10:01:24 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-29_09-01-21_b7JWABX6A.png better ?
2019-05-29T10:01:34 < Thorn> definitely
2019-05-29T10:01:40 < rajkosto> why would there be solder bridges theres soldermask
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2019-05-29T10:08:31 < jadew> morning
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2019-05-29T10:32:54 < ohsix> oh man, irc more than once in a week; what's going on!11
2019-05-29T10:33:16 < jadew> sup ohsix?
2019-05-29T10:33:32 < ohsix> heheh when i build out the lab it's going to have enough monitors for irc and real work
2019-05-29T10:33:53 < ohsix> not much, recovering from electric car thing that almost broke my arm
2019-05-29T10:34:39 < ohsix> tens kilowatts of electric drive in something that weighs 300 pounds is scary
2019-05-29T10:35:14 < ohsix> dude i was working on it for drove it up the wall of his garage cuz i forgot to turn it off when i limped back haha; he was trying to adjust the mirror and twisted the throttle
2019-05-29T10:35:43 < ohsix> shit is so f'n cheap it's really tempting to build something just for the novelty of it
2019-05-29T10:49:24 < jly> sounds all fucked up
2019-05-29T10:53:24 < ohsix> got a cool bruise though
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2019-05-29T11:06:01 < Thorn> is a 16-bit fixed point number with 8 fractional bits always Q7.8? or is it reserved for signed (2's complement) numbers only?
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2019-05-29T12:00:47 < dongs> https://twitter.com/86723nasogamat/status/1123096273626599424 kikecad 2.0
2019-05-29T12:01:04 < rajkosto> is this some fritzing shit
2019-05-29T12:02:39 < dongs> thats NEXT level fritzing shit
2019-05-29T12:03:21 < rajkosto> its like
2019-05-29T12:03:24 < rajkosto> the most unreadable breadboard
2019-05-29T12:03:49 < dongs> ttp://uaubn.g2.xrea.com/pass/
2019-05-29T12:03:50 < dongs> haha
2019-05-29T12:03:55 < dongs> the software that made that cancer
2019-05-29T12:03:56 < dongs> http://uaubn.g2.xrea.com/pass/
2019-05-29T12:04:07 < dongs> http://uaubn.g2.xrea.com/pass/#%E7%94%BB%E9%9D%A2%E3%82%A4%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8
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2019-05-29T12:14:13 < rajkosto> fuckin crazy japanese
2019-05-29T12:37:13 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
2019-05-29T12:37:46 < Steffanx> Is jly around?
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2019-05-29T13:00:46 < karlp> englishman: this sums up nicely just how adafruit is approaching mqtt: https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_MQTT_Library/issues/24
2019-05-29T13:09:41 < englishman> sigh
2019-05-29T13:10:45 < englishman> so they just want to make shit to say they made it. and not actually do anything
2019-05-29T13:10:55 < karlp> they just want to have their own little fangrl garden for themselves
2019-05-29T13:11:05 < karlp> not remotely interested in actually being useful in general it seems.
2019-05-29T13:11:15 < karlp> they're such a weird company now.
2019-05-29T13:11:45 < englishman> so how do I get shit into IFTTT
2019-05-29T13:12:06 < englishman> it only seems to support like chinese lightbulbs and shit
2019-05-29T13:12:28 < karlp> haven't tried honestly.
2019-05-29T13:12:44 < englishman> so
2019-05-29T13:12:45 < karlp> isn't ifttt pretty heaviliy tied to "we can do a webhook!" only?
2019-05-29T13:12:54 < englishman> seems so yeah
2019-05-29T13:12:58 < englishman> but I have mqtt
2019-05-29T13:13:01 < karlp> that tends to play badly with mqtt, yes.
2019-05-29T13:13:09 < englishman> so
2019-05-29T13:13:17 < englishman> how does this internet of dicks work
2019-05-29T13:13:28 < karlp> mostly, by everyone hacking their own bullshit together.
2019-05-29T13:13:33 < englishman> without running shit on some lunix raspberry ip
2019-05-29T13:13:56 < karlp> or, by using mqtt only for aggregating shit, you pretty often see something else cohosted with the broker 
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2019-05-29T13:14:46 < karlp> do you have a broker of your own or are you directly client connecting to someone else?
2019-05-29T13:14:58 < englishman> yeah but that's always on some selfhosted raapberyyerpi
2019-05-29T13:15:30 < englishman> I don't want to have some unreliable lunix server in the house running 24/7
2019-05-29T13:15:52 < englishman> that il have to update and remake from scratch every 6 months
2019-05-29T13:16:49 < karlp> what are you devices connecting to now?
2019-05-29T13:17:27 < englishman> nothing. The mqtt server field is empty. aidsfruit didn't work because the mqtt topics are separated and nested by slashes. like mqtt is supposed to be.
2019-05-29T13:18:28 < karlp> are tehse your devices you built or what?
2019-05-29T13:18:33 < englishman> no
2019-05-29T13:21:04 < englishman> just some crap that supports mqtt that I'd like to make do stuff
2019-05-29T13:51:16 < Cracki> Thorn, I've seen Q8.7 too, which is fucking weird. if you don't need signed, 8.8 is certainly a thing. gcc has fixed point types, but I dunno if any of them are unsigned
2019-05-29T13:51:50 < kakimir> do you need kaalib?
2019-05-29T13:52:11 < kakimir> place your decimal separator where ever you want
2019-05-29T13:52:29 < kakimir> formats it into string and back to kakitype
2019-05-29T13:52:58 < kakimir> has parser where you can do multiple list of multiple values
2019-05-29T13:53:25 < kakimir> and it formats it like <0><1>..
2019-05-29T13:53:34 < kakimir> and back into list also
2019-05-29T13:54:26 < zyp> karlp, haha
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2019-05-29T14:02:33 < zyp> I've thought about reinventing MQTT
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2019-05-29T14:22:52 < qyx> reinventing the protocol? or just another implementation
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2019-05-29T14:27:56 < zyp> brokers are fine enough, it's just the protocol that's lacking some features
2019-05-29T14:30:40 < zyp> stuff like e.g. discovering devices
2019-05-29T14:31:18 < karlp> that's application layer :)
2019-05-29T14:31:43 < karlp> there's a few people using things like coap.s .well-known stuff just mapped onto topics.
2019-05-29T14:31:52 < zyp> you can have each device push a retained topic with some metadata
2019-05-29T14:32:06 < karlp> yeah, a lot of the home automation stuff does that too.
2019-05-29T14:32:08 < zyp> and then just do a wildcard subscribe for it
2019-05-29T14:32:16 < karlp> yup
2019-05-29T14:33:56 < zyp> retained topics are great, there's just two problems with it
2019-05-29T14:34:19 < zyp> one thing is lifetime, it's undefined in spec, all up to broker configuration
2019-05-29T14:35:13 < zyp> no ownership, it just exists until explicitly removed or broker decides it's expired
2019-05-29T14:36:15 < zyp> and no way to do anything like a GET request for one, if you want the contents of a retained topic you have to subscribe, wait for it to arrive, then unsubscribe
2019-05-29T14:38:38 < zyp> I'd like to be able to both subscribe to topics and explicitly request topics
2019-05-29T14:38:47 < Rickta59> have you looked at xmpp?
2019-05-29T14:38:58 < Rickta59> * wonders if that is still a thing
2019-05-29T14:39:15 < zyp> no, but I've also used AMQP
2019-05-29T14:39:27 < Rickta59> I used that like 15 years ago as a protocol for doing a 3d multi user server
2019-05-29T14:39:47 < zyp> AMQP does not have retained topics, but it has a bunch of other nice features MQTT lacks
2019-05-29T14:39:52 < zyp> like channels
2019-05-29T14:40:14 < zyp> open a channel, make some subscriptions, close the channel and have all subscriptions cleaned up
2019-05-29T14:40:39 < zyp> useful for stuff like e.g. a user interface
2019-05-29T14:41:25 < Rickta59> "have all subscriptions cleaned up" what do you mean by that? 
2019-05-29T14:41:52 < zyp> imagine a user interface with a bunch of tabs/pages/whatever
2019-05-29T14:42:11 < Rickta59> k .. so when you close you want to auto unsubscribe?
2019-05-29T14:42:47 < zyp> open a tab, UI creates a new channel, makes all the required subscriptions, navigate to another tab, channel is closed and all subscriptions are cleaned up
2019-05-29T14:43:34 < Rickta59> you might look at xmpp, might be what you are looking for
2019-05-29T14:43:46 < Rickta59> https://xmpp.org/uses/internet-of-things.html
2019-05-29T14:45:04 < Rickta59> when i was doing xmpp 3d stuff ... the things were virtual devices, so think, doors that are either open or closed
2019-05-29T14:45:30 < Rickta59> their state had to be communicated as it changed
2019-05-29T14:45:41 < Rickta59> and retained so when people came in they were in there last state
2019-05-29T14:46:05 < Rickta59> i would think the same thing could be applied to real devices
2019-05-29T14:46:31 < Rickta59> probably more easily as the instant state isn't some server, it is the device
2019-05-29T14:47:30 < zyp> I prefer to avoid everything that has anything to do with xml though
2019-05-29T14:51:43 < Rickta59> yeah that is the downside
2019-05-29T14:53:21 < Rickta59> maybe they have json version by now
2019-05-29T14:56:02 < zyp> I don't have any reason to believe xmpp is any better than mqtt already is though
2019-05-29T15:05:29 < karlp> some of your concerns are covered by mqtt5, but that's going to take a while to get out, lots more to it.
2019-05-29T15:05:54 < karlp> zeromq too, 
2019-05-29T15:06:13 < zyp> haven't looked at mqtt5
2019-05-29T15:06:32 < zyp> zeromq doesn't have a broker at all, so that's not really relevant :)
2019-05-29T15:09:03 < rajkosto> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TTGO-T-Camera-ESP32-WROVER-B-OV2640-Camera-Module-ESP32-WROVER-PSRAM-Camera-Module-0-96/32968767440.html how the hell does this work
2019-05-29T15:09:34 < Rickta59> software and hardware
2019-05-29T15:09:46 < rajkosto> esp32 doesnt have a camera interface ?
2019-05-29T15:09:55 < rajkosto> or an encoder
2019-05-29T15:09:59 < karlp> zyp: well, you just declare someone to be.  endpoints have it all in zmq aiui.
2019-05-29T15:10:25 < Rickta59> and esp32 runs at 240MHz with 2 cpus
2019-05-29T15:11:59 < Rickta59> https://github.com/yoursunny/ESP32-CAM-OV2640/blob/master/src/OV2640.h
2019-05-29T15:12:14 < zyp> karlp, zmq is also probably the wrong tool for the job
2019-05-29T15:13:01 < zyp> I mean, I have some experience in that regard
2019-05-29T15:13:59 < zyp> six years ago, I worked on a project where people wanted to replace some embedded linux boxes with embedded rtos on avr32 instead
2019-05-29T15:14:19 < zyp> old stuff used zeromq, and they wanted to keep the protocol to avoid having to make changes on the server
2019-05-29T15:15:05 < zyp> so I wrote a simple implementation of the zeromq protocol on top of lwip
2019-05-29T15:16:47 < zyp> now, zeromq is built on the idea that software shouldn't have to care whether there's a connection or not, protocol will handle all that
2019-05-29T15:17:07 < zyp> except that these devices absolutely wanted to know whether there were a connection
2019-05-29T15:17:38 < zyp> so people had added a ping-layer on top of that
2019-05-29T15:19:10 < zyp> the zeromq layer itself worked nicely enough, but I think one of my coworkers ended up spending months getting everything to work properly
2019-05-29T15:19:20 < zyp> and in the end he had to make changes to the server side as well
2019-05-29T15:20:04 < zyp> we'd probably have saved a bunch of time if we just started out by ditching zeromq completely and defining a suitable tcp-based protocol
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2019-05-29T16:25:58 < Cracki> zyp, are you aware of the "(last) will" mechanism of mqtt? when the client connection drops/times out, the broker publishes the client's "will"
2019-05-29T16:27:11 < karlp> I see cracki has been hitting up google again...
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2019-05-29T16:29:28 < qyx> Rickta59: xmpp has one major problem, it is xml
2019-05-29T16:29:34 < qyx> which nobody uses
2019-05-29T16:29:42 < qyx> and is oibsolete like 10years
2019-05-29T16:30:12 < BrainDamage> the real problem of xmpp is that in order to have a working set of basic functionality you need to dig through literally hundreds of sub-specifications
2019-05-29T16:30:22 < BrainDamage> some of them are even multually incompatible
2019-05-29T16:30:32 < karlp> ^^^ ^^^
2019-05-29T16:31:05 < karlp> you can have xmpp, and you can have xmpp too! and they dont' have to have anything to do with each other!
2019-05-29T16:31:18 < karlp> here's a framework for building your own messaging solution. yay.
2019-05-29T16:31:29 < rajkosto> its not just xml
2019-05-29T16:31:41 < rajkosto> it requires an event based xml parser because ideally the xml element never gets closed
2019-05-29T16:32:08 < rajkosto> but its pretty cool use of xml which i have nothing against, way better than the shitpile of json
2019-05-29T16:33:15 < rajkosto> but yeah theres no real spec for all of xmpp and google ruined it all by removing jabber support from google talk and making it completely walled garden
2019-05-29T16:34:17 < karlp> json is what xml was in practice, because no-one used schemas properly anyway.
2019-05-29T16:34:52 < rajkosto> nah i like xml way better because of the element, attribute, nested node etc schema instead of json loose "everything is strings deal with it"
2019-05-29T16:34:54 < Cracki> what's your issue with json, other than it's xml without schemas
2019-05-29T16:35:19 < Cracki> so you like validation
2019-05-29T16:35:28 < rajkosto> it also has things like CDATA so you dont have to constantly escape said strings
2019-05-29T16:35:34 < Cracki> good point
2019-05-29T16:35:51 < Cracki> just hex encode everything :P
2019-05-29T16:36:01 < karlp> rajkosto: also, it's not "everything is a string" 
2019-05-29T16:36:10 < rajkosto> basically what the webshit guys are doing is base64 encoding most things inside json which is a huge yuck
2019-05-29T16:36:10 < karlp> you have types, and you have nesting just as much as you do with xml
2019-05-29T16:36:22 < karlp> only without the abritrary "element vs attribute" bullshit
2019-05-29T16:37:15 < aandrew> BrainDamage: that sounds like any modern spec
2019-05-29T16:37:30 < aandrew> they have the info across a dozen specs, each you must pay for separately and none of which are useful unless you have the others
2019-05-29T16:38:14 < BrainDamage> aandrew: https://xmpp.org/extensions/
2019-05-29T16:38:19 < rajkosto> theoretically you could use xmpp for all sorts of stuff
2019-05-29T16:38:27 < BrainDamage> you cannot even have group chats without an extension
2019-05-29T16:38:30 < rajkosto> but instead everyone just rolls its own whatever
2019-05-29T16:38:40 < aandrew> yeah I like xmpp from an idea standpoint
2019-05-29T16:39:35 < BrainDamage> matrix might be going somewhere provided it gets enough traction, but I am not too much interested in being an early adopter
2019-05-29T16:39:45 < BrainDamage> at least it's less chaotic than xmpp
2019-05-29T16:40:31 < BrainDamage> and I say this having tried to run my own xmpp server instance
2019-05-29T16:41:04 < rajkosto> prosody lets you run one with your own extensions which is what i tried when i wanted a solution for running some "custom service"
2019-05-29T16:41:41 < BrainDamage> I used prosody, I still had to dig through so much configuration for a finicky service
2019-05-29T16:41:58 < BrainDamage> just too many moving parts to not fail somewhere
2019-05-29T16:44:45 < rajkosto> can you even "log in" to xmpp using some sort of token instead of user/pass
2019-05-29T16:45:10 < karlp> you mean, having one password, instead of two passwords? :)
2019-05-29T16:45:11 < Cracki> might that be oauth?
2019-05-29T16:45:27 < Cracki> or did they do their own
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2019-05-29T16:46:38 < zyp> Cracki, yes, it doesn't solve the problems I have with mqtt
2019-05-29T16:47:10 < Cracki> hah, it is xep 235!  and in some "attic" directory they have 235-0.2 which didn't mention oauth right away
2019-05-29T16:48:18 < Cracki> understandable. I see you have more requirements than just that
2019-05-29T16:49:55 < aandrew> yeah I have a prosody instance for some internal stuff
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2019-05-29T17:14:45 < englishman> protobufs solve everything
2019-05-29T17:15:36 < karlp> riiiight
2019-05-29T17:15:56 < englishman> :)
2019-05-29T17:16:49 < englishman> so could I do device -> cloudmqtt -> retransmit modified mqtt -> aidsfruit io -> IFTTT -> actually do shit
2019-05-29T17:17:19 < englishman> relying on 3 cloud services
2019-05-29T17:17:35 < sync> industriy 4.0
2019-05-29T17:17:50 < englishman> oh I need a forth cloud service
2019-05-29T17:17:53 < englishman> fourth
2019-05-29T17:17:55 < englishman> hmm
2019-05-29T17:18:39 < englishman> I can see why internet of cocks isnt catching on
2019-05-29T17:18:45 < sync> a forth cloud service would be nice
2019-05-29T17:22:22 < karlp> 211k line source file.
2019-05-29T17:22:23 < karlp> nice...
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2019-05-29T18:16:39 < qyx> sounds like wolfssl or freertos
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2019-05-29T18:20:50 < karlp> sqlite3 amalgamation shit
2019-05-29T18:21:57 < qyx> it would be fun to use sqlite over FTL on stm32 internal flash
2019-05-29T18:22:17 < qyx> for more iot experience
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2019-05-29T18:33:13 < mawk> lol
2019-05-29T18:33:20 < mawk> on eeprom, it's iotier
2019-05-29T18:33:53 < karlp> sync: colorforth or gtfo plz :)
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2019-05-29T18:38:23 < bitmask> hi
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2019-05-29T19:22:02 < englishman> no bridging in free cloudmqtt
2019-05-29T19:22:03 < englishman> rip
2019-05-29T19:22:50 < englishman> how the dicks is any of this stuff supposed to work
2019-05-29T19:24:43 < sync> the fuc karlp
2019-05-29T19:29:41 < karlp> thought you'd like that :)
2019-05-29T19:34:46 < sync> :)
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2019-05-29T19:42:33 < boddax> someone pls can shortly explain the boot0 function? with my not working board is connected to +3.3 with the working to the gnd
2019-05-29T19:45:00 < karlp> RM->system architecture and memory overview->boot modes
2019-05-29T19:45:10 < karlp> or boot configuration
2019-05-29T19:46:02 < boddax> from memory or flash?
2019-05-29T19:46:13 < karlp> just read it yourself.
2019-05-29T19:46:35 < boddax> no way to change settings from the code ?
2019-05-29T19:48:54 < mawk> on some cores yes
2019-05-29T19:49:00 < mawk> you can disable reading external BOOT0 value
2019-05-29T19:49:05 < mawk> and use one in eeprom instead
2019-05-29T19:49:26 < mawk> but then you can't use st bl anymore if there is a bug in your firmware
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2019-05-29T19:51:51 < boddax> ok thanks a lot for explain
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2019-05-29T23:45:19 < karlp> bleh, pb6 isn't SPI_CS on f3 nucleo either.  all these docs keep saying it, but they are all liess
2019-05-29T23:45:28 < sync> yes
2019-05-29T23:45:31 < sync> trolled me before
2019-05-29T23:45:58 < aandrew> heh
2019-05-29T23:46:12 < aandrew> someone created an altium design and used negative-diamter vias to specify plugged vias
2019-05-29T23:46:20 < karlp> nor is it on the l073.
2019-05-29T23:46:23 < karlp> cunts 
2019-05-29T23:46:26 < aandrew> altium created NC drill files missing those drills
2019-05-29T23:46:31 < aandrew> I never heard of that convention before
2019-05-29T23:47:26 < karlp> altium, most pro.
2019-05-29T23:48:54 < aandrew> curious why altium didn't flag -ve diameters as an error, but more curious where that convention came from
2019-05-29T23:49:07 < aandrew> I figure if you're doing plugged vias you're doign ALL vias plugged
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--- Day changed Thu May 30 2019
2019-05-30T00:07:33 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/iYUhaTor/new%20toby.jpeg
2019-05-30T00:07:38 < jly> new toby is here to help
2019-05-30T00:22:13 < zyp> very good
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2019-05-30T00:53:05 < bitmask> your cats face looks like a vagina
2019-05-30T00:53:20 < bitmask> pussy shaped pussy
2019-05-30T00:53:32 < zyp> wtf
2019-05-30T00:53:42 < bitmask> don't wtf me
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2019-05-30T01:02:08 < Steffanx> lol zyp. you scared him away
2019-05-30T01:11:16 < zyp> spotify is recommendin me a bunch of dutch music
2019-05-30T01:11:20 < zyp> Steffanx, I blame you
2019-05-30T01:28:03 < Steffanx> poor zyp
2019-05-30T01:28:43 < sync> it really depends on which dutch music
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2019-05-30T01:32:42 < zyp> https://open.spotify.com/track/1cA66nIKFVHwoh4yfMsUpP
2019-05-30T01:32:50 < zyp> that's the first one on the list
2019-05-30T01:33:21 < zyp> also, this is apparently the «Tastebreakers» playlist
2019-05-30T01:33:37 < zyp> «Start 2019 by broadening your horizons. We've made you a playlist of songs from genres and artists you don't normally explore - and we think you'll like it.»
2019-05-30T01:35:31 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MVVPT.png <- it's full of weird stuff
2019-05-30T01:36:27 < Steffanx> Toby is in it too. It must be jly's doing
2019-05-30T01:36:41 < sync> 👌
2019-05-30T01:36:54 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/tdF3N.png
2019-05-30T01:37:04 < Steffanx> Lol at "bier & ..."
2019-05-30T01:37:06 < zyp> apparently one version of Kung Fu Fighting was not enough
2019-05-30T01:37:22 < Steffanx> Usually that's "beer & tits.. lalalalalalalaaaa"
2019-05-30T01:37:27 < zyp> also I Will Survive
2019-05-30T01:37:33 < zyp> yeah, that's how the song goes
2019-05-30T01:38:17 < zyp> https://open.spotify.com/track/3PbZ6ycY1Ifb6uzOQKp7ud if you're interested
2019-05-30T01:38:19 < Steffanx> Yeah its jly's doing. I also see "Da pump"
2019-05-30T01:38:25 < sync> the fuck is that shit
2019-05-30T01:38:45 < zyp> like I said, «Tastebreakers»-playlist on spotify
2019-05-30T01:39:08 < zyp> check the «Made for You» section
2019-05-30T01:39:14 < mawk> when I think of dutch music I think of mosselman
2019-05-30T01:39:33 < mawk> and Dave; you know this one Steffanx ? 
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2019-05-30T01:40:00 < Steffanx> Dave mawk?
2019-05-30T01:40:13 < mawk> yes
2019-05-30T01:40:14 < mawk> https://youtu.be/SzvC1OWCBL4
2019-05-30T01:40:17 < mawk> he's dutch
2019-05-30T01:40:45 < Steffanx> 1975.
2019-05-30T01:40:57 < mawk> he made ads for Gouda on french tv
2019-05-30T01:42:29 < Steffanx> That's all carnival music zyp
2019-05-30T01:42:44 < Steffanx> Its supposed to be like that. It gets better when you're drunk
2019-05-30T01:43:01 < sync> "better"
2019-05-30T01:43:39 < Steffanx> (We don't carnival where i love. Mainly a thing in southern dutchland)
2019-05-30T01:43:55 < Steffanx> Don't you have awful Oktoberfest music sync?
2019-05-30T01:43:58 < sync> yes
2019-05-30T01:44:01 < sync> unfortunately
2019-05-30T01:44:38 < sync> luckily our hilly friends have worse music
2019-05-30T01:46:23 < Steffanx> It doesn't make you think of DJ paul elstak mawk?! Such Dutch star
2019-05-30T01:46:29 < mawk> lol
2019-05-30T01:46:33 < mawk> I actually like his music
2019-05-30T01:47:33 < mawk> at his best https://youtu.be/HKF4hobJl2A
2019-05-30T01:47:52 < mawk> finest young dutchies
2019-05-30T01:47:54 < Steffanx> Lol new kids
2019-05-30T01:48:26 < Steffanx> Even sync can enjoy new kids. Since they did a lip sync in german
2019-05-30T01:48:51 < Steffanx> Its awful, but that's the entire point of it all
2019-05-30T01:49:19 < Steffanx> Did mawk try to watch the movies?
2019-05-30T01:49:31 < Steffanx> Helps with your Dutch (not)
2019-05-30T01:50:58 < sync> I did watch it in funny german though
2019-05-30T01:52:53 < sync> also the flodders
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2019-05-30T01:57:37 < sync> ah yes Steffanx, a classic
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2019-05-30T01:59:38 < Steffanx> Flodder :d
2019-05-30T02:01:01 < sync> :>
2019-05-30T02:14:14 < Cracki> press >
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2019-05-30T03:10:50 < mawk> I should try Steffanx 
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2019-05-30T03:45:09 < bitmask> YAY PETG 
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2019-05-30T03:46:14 < bitmask_> ugh
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2019-05-30T03:48:56 < bitmask_> https://imgur.com/a/SVUCGrB
2019-05-30T03:49:03 < bitmask_> purty
2019-05-30T03:49:08 < bitmask_> expensive as shit though
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2019-05-30T03:53:40 < dongs> geez is tehre a non-retarded way to generate random number with mbedtls
2019-05-30T03:53:44 < dongs> i dont wanna setup fucking DBG_CTR shit
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2019-05-30T03:53:55 < dongs> i just want a weak random not a fucking SeKKuRE shire
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2019-05-30T03:55:11 < mawk> yes it's pretty easy as I remember it dongs 
2019-05-30T03:55:19 < mawk> you have a simple prng to generate stuff
2019-05-30T03:55:22 < mawk> seed it with whatever
2019-05-30T03:55:26 < dongs> yeah i dont see it tho
2019-05-30T03:55:35 < mawk> well it's what you said
2019-05-30T03:55:41 < mawk> ctr_drbg
2019-05-30T03:55:42 < dongs> i only see CTR_DRBG shit
2019-05-30T03:55:43 < dongs> yeah
2019-05-30T03:55:44 < mawk> yes
2019-05-30T03:56:48 < dongs> yeah fuck this
2019-05-30T03:56:54 < dongs> im gonna for() loop a rand()
2019-05-30T03:56:58 < dongs> that is literally waht i need
2019-05-30T03:57:00 < dongs> not 20 lines of setup
2019-05-30T03:57:09 < mawk> lol
2019-05-30T03:57:15 < mawk> should be the same thing anyway
2019-05-30T03:57:17 < mawk> a prng is a prng
2019-05-30T03:57:29 < mawk> it's just mbedtls likes verbose init code
2019-05-30T03:57:38 < mawk> but how do you seed it ?
2019-05-30T03:58:03 < mawk> if your core has hardware rng I'd use that, otherwise I don't know
2019-05-30T03:58:19 < mawk> last digits of adc read of floating pin, things like this
2019-05-30T03:58:49 < dongs> nope, i dont even care that much. i just need a random number for testing. last time i just seeded with time() or someshit.
2019-05-30T03:59:10 < dongs> which is why I thought there'd be a mbedtls_give_me_a_shitty_random_number(bytes, length)
2019-05-30T03:59:22 < dongs> but fuck doing all the setup/crap for drbg shit
2019-05-30T04:37:16 < englishman> howcome none of the "flexible and easy to use" mqtt brokers support more than 1 fucking nested topic and require a bunch of dumbass fucking topic and data rules what the fuck
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2019-05-30T04:38:52 < englishman> aandrew: "someone" probably disabled drill size rules to make it work
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2019-05-30T07:03:58 < rajkosto> dongs, is there a way to not have "board cutout" behave like keepout
2019-05-30T07:04:18 < rajkosto> keeps pullin all the polygon pours away from it
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2019-05-30T08:14:17 < dongs> uh
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2019-05-30T08:14:47 < dongs> hmm
2019-05-30T08:39:53 < ohsix> boop
2019-05-30T08:45:16 < rajkosto> this step model is beautiful but has LONG LEGS https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-30_07-45-10_6VbyO1Zl0.png
2019-05-30T08:45:35 < dongs> haha yueah i hate that
2019-05-30T08:45:46 < dongs> shit like leds etc usually ends up like that
2019-05-30T08:49:31 < Thorn> can you have groups of nets in altium similar to verilog arrays, e.g. dq[15:0]?
2019-05-30T08:49:41 < rajkosto> ye
2019-05-30T08:50:02 < rajkosto> a "Bus" contains nets BUSX where X is 0...whatever
2019-05-30T08:53:29 < Thorn> ok thx
2019-05-30T08:53:41 < rajkosto> its the thicc line
2019-05-30T08:53:56 < rajkosto> if you connect normal nets to the thicc line you can name them BUS5 etc
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2019-05-30T09:13:08 < Thorn> my ssr circuit seems to work
2019-05-30T09:13:20 < Thorn> even without a snubber
2019-05-30T09:15:08 < Thorn> triac optocoupler with 0 crossing detector + a triac
2019-05-30T09:21:46 < jly> Dirty
2019-05-30T09:22:00 < jly> Be gentle to the girl
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2019-05-30T10:55:55 < ohsix> so uh is there a clever piece of software to help with reversing pcbs
2019-05-30T10:56:20 < ohsix> it's one of those things that takes long enough to make me wonder if i'm doing it wrong
2019-05-30T10:56:47 < ohsix> if i could put images of the top and bottom in eagle i could lay down actual nets heheh
2019-05-30T11:16:26 < Cracki> https://github.com/davidcarne/pcbre
2019-05-30T11:16:41 < Cracki> this gets mentioned in certain reverse engineering circles
2019-05-30T11:17:12 < Cracki> those that do it professionally probably wrote their tools for it long ago
2019-05-30T11:17:24 < dongs> disgusting
2019-05-30T11:17:26 < dongs> all in python lmao
2019-05-30T11:17:42 < Cracki> such as abusing inkscape/illustrator as an input gui, and analyzing the resulting "hand drawn" svg/dxf with layers to get nets back out
2019-05-30T11:19:18 < Cracki> dude himself presented it at "recon" and disclaims that it's "hugely pre-alpha" (https://www.reddit.com/r/ReverseEngineering/comments/3axlpy/pcbre_opensource_to_facilitate_hardware_pcb_re/)
2019-05-30T11:20:41 < Cracki> most people seem to actually probe all the contacts and establish a (sparse by good judgment) connection matrix
2019-05-30T11:21:23 < Cracki> a few people, notably chinese shops who do it for money, grind down the board to its layers and basically do a tomography
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2019-05-30T11:39:57 < Cracki> "hobo mode" (with gimp) https://hardwear.io/document/Slide-hardware_re_for_software_reversers-By-Czarny-Rigo.pdf#page=11
2019-05-30T11:48:09 < Cracki> oh right xray photos. go visit your favorite dentist/orthodontist for the right equipment
2019-05-30T11:48:31 < rajkosto> wtf is this microusb connector with 4 legs https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/XKB-U-D-M7DS-G-2_C319154.pdf
2019-05-30T11:48:56 < Cracki> solder tabs
2019-05-30T11:49:02 < rajkosto> has big plastic studs
2019-05-30T11:50:07 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-05-30T12:12:57 < dongs> rajkosto: looks like something that was modeled to look like mini-displayport socket
2019-05-30T12:13:23 < dongs> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/dongs/32688755574.html
2019-05-30T12:17:31 < rajkosto> at least its not mini hdmi which just breaks off
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2019-05-30T13:39:48 < invzim> tip of the day, pcbcart prefers 0603 LEDs with these part # LTST-C191KRKT, LTST-C191KGKT and LTST-C191TBKT
2019-05-30T13:40:06 < invzim> previously I've bought this and that and used 0805 as I thought it was easier
2019-05-30T13:41:05 < invzim> seems they are available pretty much everywhere, so glad to have another standard part in my lib
2019-05-30T13:42:40 < jadew> you're using them for PCBA?
2019-05-30T13:42:51 < invzim> yes
2019-05-30T13:43:08 < jadew> you're not afraid they'll clone your stuff?
2019-05-30T13:43:21 < invzim> no
2019-05-30T13:43:52 < invzim> I do low volume niche stuff + I use protection for firmware
2019-05-30T13:44:45 < jpa-> it's not as if cloning pcb's is significantly more difficult by just scanning an existing one
2019-05-30T13:45:29 < jadew> jpa-, yeah, but when you give them the exact details of your project, it's a lot easier
2019-05-30T13:45:46 < jadew> and low volume or not, it's 0 effort for a crafty employee
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2019-05-30T13:47:06 < invzim> good luck on breaking aes256 + readout level 2 + ECDSA singature :)
2019-05-30T13:47:28 < jadew> yeah, if the project is heavily relying on firmware, you're safe
2019-05-30T13:47:54 < jadew> unfortunately that's not the case for me, most of the complexity is in the PCB layout and the component selection
2019-05-30T13:48:05 < jadew> at least for my current projects
2019-05-30T13:48:19 < invzim> so you only do europe/us pcb+assembly?
2019-05-30T13:48:43 < jadew> I assemble them myself
2019-05-30T13:49:03 < invzim> "they" could still just scan it as jpa- said.  I've seen a 'virgin' 6 layer clone, and it looked very good - even worked..
2019-05-30T13:49:07 < jpa-> surest way to prevent cloning is to never get anything to sellable state
2019-05-30T13:49:14 < jpa-> that's what i do and it's been working well so far
2019-05-30T13:49:29 < jadew> lol jpa- 
2019-05-30T13:49:55 < jadew> invzim, yeah, but that's a bit of effort that has to go in, which is still better than nothing
2019-05-30T13:50:24 < jadew> as a cloner, if you can get x profit with 0 effort, no matter how small x is, you'll take it
2019-05-30T13:50:36 < jpa-> picking out your high-quality gerbers out of the thousands of maker-tier pcbs is not 0 effort
2019-05-30T13:50:37 < jadew> so it doesn't have to be a large scale product
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2019-05-30T13:51:09 < jadew> jpa-, that's true
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2019-05-30T14:32:26 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-30_13-31-01_M3uBXQN5o.png is this too much vias ?
2019-05-30T14:36:04 < jpa-> do you have a reason for all the vias?
2019-05-30T14:36:14 < rajkosto> i need to block light through the fr4
2019-05-30T14:36:32 < rajkosto> the copper tubes created by plating do that
2019-05-30T14:36:39 < rajkosto> just fr4 is pretty transparent
2019-05-30T14:36:53 < rajkosto> i guess i can just paint the sides
2019-05-30T14:40:18 < Cracki> block light? just a solid copper polygon
2019-05-30T14:40:27 < Cracki> ah, from *that* angle
2019-05-30T14:40:28 < rajkosto> from the sides.
2019-05-30T14:40:45 < Cracki> wow that's a rare problem to have
2019-05-30T14:41:00 < rajkosto> and my sides are thin enough where i cant use plated milling
2019-05-30T14:41:06 < Cracki> yeh I'd paint the sides, permanent marker might be good enough
2019-05-30T14:41:10 < Cracki> or tape them up
2019-05-30T14:41:12 < rajkosto> dip it in acrylic paint
2019-05-30T14:41:16 < Cracki> ye
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2019-05-30T15:18:40 < rmaw> or get a 4 layer board with solid copper between
2019-05-30T15:19:25 < rmaw> ohh you want to stop light out of the sides
2019-05-30T15:34:01 < dongs> FUCKING GARBAGE
2019-05-30T15:34:13 < dongs> in 19.0.x double clicking a sheet symbol doesnt bring up its properteis shit
2019-05-30T15:34:18 < dongs> it defaults to fucking doccument options
2019-05-30T15:34:21 < dongs> in the kikey sidepanel
2019-05-30T15:34:33 < dongs> i can see the sheet properties flash quickly then it goes back to document options
2019-05-30T15:34:36 < dongs> fucking niggers
2019-05-30T15:34:48 < rajkosto> is this too complicated for a routing layer https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-30_14-34-43_0nWOvFZAI.png
2019-05-30T15:34:49 < dongs> how the fuck can this basic shit be broken
2019-05-30T15:35:00 < dongs> whats the scale there raj
2019-05-30T15:35:02 < dongs> doesnt look too bad
2019-05-30T15:35:15 < rajkosto> the very hole in the middle is 2mm wide
2019-05-30T15:35:16 < dongs> how wide is the bottom slot
2019-05-30T15:35:20 < dongs> ugh thats bad then
2019-05-30T15:35:22 < rajkosto> more than 1mm
2019-05-30T15:35:33 < rajkosto> they say anything more than 1.2mm is fine for slots
2019-05-30T15:37:34 < rajkosto> can i tell altium not to output copper for unplated holes ?
2019-05-30T15:37:40 < rajkosto> it does it regardless
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2019-05-30T15:39:16 < dongs> yeah?
2019-05-30T15:39:21 < dongs> just output separate NC files
2019-05-30T15:39:24 < dongs> plated, unplated
2019-05-30T15:39:31 < rajkosto> cant
2019-05-30T15:39:34 < dongs> yes you can?
2019-05-30T15:39:44 < rajkosto> chink houses == copper in gerbers touching hole == plated
2019-05-30T15:39:46 < rajkosto> otherwise unplated
2019-05-30T15:39:58 < dongs> o that, i donno then
2019-05-30T15:40:05 < rajkosto> only one holes txt allowed
2019-05-30T15:40:12 < dongs> sorry to hear that
2019-05-30T15:40:14 < dongs> never been a problem for me
2019-05-30T15:40:24 < dongs> ive actually sent separate drill files to allpcb all the time
2019-05-30T15:40:27 < dongs> and they never complained
2019-05-30T15:40:46 < rajkosto> the only one that allows me to have multiple designs for same price as 1 design
2019-05-30T15:40:49 < rajkosto> doesnt let you use more than 1 txt
2019-05-30T15:41:35 < rajkosto> i can just remove the holes from gerbers manualyl lol
2019-05-30T15:43:10 < dongs> or you could just not be a jew and use allpcb
2019-05-30T15:43:22 < rajkosto> i can barely afford this
2019-05-30T15:43:48 < dongs> lol
2019-05-30T15:46:33 < rajkosto> sent to chyna this way
2019-05-30T15:46:34 < rajkosto> i dont care
2019-05-30T15:46:44 < rajkosto> the first time i sent it like this the holes were properly unplated
2019-05-30T15:46:46 < rajkosto> 2nd time didnt
2019-05-30T15:49:59 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-30_14-49-49_VswfwqOS8.png yeah ZofsPCB sees it as plated with each being its own net
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2019-05-30T16:37:11 < rajkosto> i tried removing them with Altium's camtastic but that generated vastly different gerbers after export than what i started with
2019-05-30T16:37:16 < rajkosto> and it ruined the apertures in the soldermask layers
2019-05-30T16:37:20 < rajkosto> so i decided not to do that
2019-05-30T16:47:25 < dongs> fagtastic is so trashy
2019-05-30T16:47:31 < dongs> why are ALL gerber viewers so fucking awful
2019-05-30T16:47:38 < dongs> its like they're designed to be FUCKING BAD
2019-05-30T16:48:14 < rajkosto> camtastic is some software they bought in like 1995
2019-05-30T16:48:15 < rajkosto> and never updated
2019-05-30T16:48:18 < dongs> yes
2019-05-30T16:48:18 < rajkosto> after integrating barely
2019-05-30T16:48:25 < dongs> it doesnt even follow the global mouse wheel rules etc
2019-05-30T16:48:28 < rajkosto> nop
2019-05-30T16:48:34 < rajkosto> but you can do edit->clear
2019-05-30T16:48:36 < rajkosto> and click the elements
2019-05-30T16:48:40 < rajkosto> and then right click after selection
2019-05-30T16:48:42 < rajkosto> and they go away
2019-05-30T16:48:47 < rajkosto> and then i went File->Export->Gerber
2019-05-30T16:49:00 < rajkosto> cuz file->save will save with same file extensions as your gerber but in a binary camtastic format
2019-05-30T16:49:44 < rajkosto> anyway even with same export settings as in my .job file it was noticably different output so i decided not to risk it
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2019-05-30T18:29:10 < jadew> rajkosto, I'm sure the pcb house will complain if there are too many vias
2019-05-30T18:29:16 < jadew> but no, those don't look like too many
2019-05-30T18:29:32 < rajkosto> its literally all vias
2019-05-30T18:29:35 < rajkosto> how is it not too many
2019-05-30T18:29:43 < rajkosto> 690 vias with those in a 50mmx50mm area
2019-05-30T18:29:47 < jadew> they're only on the sides
2019-05-30T18:30:02 < rajkosto> i removed them and went with something a bit more normal
2019-05-30T18:30:07 < jadew> oh
2019-05-30T18:30:23 < jadew> that initial setup looked good
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2019-05-30T18:31:02 < jadew> as long as the hole to hole constraint was met, that looked pretty good
2019-05-30T18:31:14 < jadew> but keep in mind you're trying to keep light out of glass
2019-05-30T18:31:57 < rajkosto> if not glass its glass fibers pretty roughly woven
2019-05-30T18:32:07 < rajkosto> its diffuse and not that transparent
2019-05-30T18:32:27 < rajkosto> actually how good is it as a diffuser for leds
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2019-05-30T19:17:43 < Cracki> I got a random pcb here with copper free areas. I'd estimate a centimeter, using one of those very bright "cree" LED torches
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2019-05-30T21:08:20 < kakimir> evenings
2019-05-30T21:09:27 < catphish> morning
2019-05-30T21:10:10 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkFZn4oPMqE musics my dudes
2019-05-30T21:10:58 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WqckkaU4DubgaAG5ciC4PPk5NuC3_3gS/view?usp=sharing my gamble paid off
2019-05-30T21:11:04 < kakimir> cylinder head is unharmed
2019-05-30T21:11:17 < boddax> what can be wrong with this code https://pastebin.com/raw/3Q34VQMz
2019-05-30T21:11:47 < jpa-> one quite typical bug would be uninitialized fields in the init structures
2019-05-30T21:12:27 < jpa-> do = {}; or = GPIO_InitStructure_Default; or similar to make sure they all have atleast some value
2019-05-30T21:14:22 < boddax> ok jpa but example the 50Mhz its not too fast clock?
2019-05-30T21:14:46 < boddax> GPIO_Speed_50MHz;	
2019-05-30T21:15:25 < jpa-> that's not clock, it's just slew rate (output drive strength)
2019-05-30T21:15:42 < jpa-> and should be fine
2019-05-30T21:17:28 < boddax> with stm32f103c8t6 is working ..with stm32f103r8t6 no sign from usb connection
2019-05-30T21:18:26 < boddax> i just changed the pin number iside this part of code
2019-05-30T21:21:37 < jpa-> did you change remapping correspondingly?
2019-05-30T21:23:39 < boddax> none
2019-05-30T21:23:48 < boddax> ah ok yes
2019-05-30T21:24:14 < boddax> from 48 to 64 qfp i check and is correct
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2019-05-30T21:25:07 < boddax> the author of code shortly says need to change memory address but did not get what he mean
2019-05-30T21:26:13 < boddax> he say '' If your hardware is 64 K not 128K you need to change the address for EEPROM''
2019-05-30T21:26:35 < boddax> because has eeprom emulator inside code
2019-05-30T21:26:44 < jpa-> are you using that?
2019-05-30T21:27:09 < boddax> but i dont think make differences about usb
2019-05-30T21:27:23 < jpa-> to me, it doesn't seem like stm32f103r8t6 has USART1_RX/TX on GPIOA11/12
2019-05-30T21:27:31 < boddax> yes storing settings
2019-05-30T21:27:48 < boddax> no?
2019-05-30T21:27:57 < jpa-> and you keep talking about USB, while that code is configuring USART..
2019-05-30T21:28:20 < jpa-> USB does exist on PA11/PA12, but USART is not the peripheral you use to talk to an USB host
2019-05-30T21:29:06 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mTu5KIA0UkAyoBmfm3st774nFSTSQjzJ/view?usp=sharing these are the circumstances the cylinder head survived from
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2019-05-30T21:30:32 < boddax> so wich i need to use ?
2019-05-30T21:31:12 < jpa-> .. the USB peripheral
2019-05-30T21:31:23 < jpa-> which is totally different and generally requires a software driver
2019-05-30T21:31:29 < kakimir> :o
2019-05-30T21:32:03 < kakimir> *rollseyes*
2019-05-30T21:32:14 < boddax> PA11 I/O FT PA11
2019-05-30T21:32:14 < boddax> USART1_CTS/
2019-05-30T21:32:14 < boddax> CANRX(9)/
2019-05-30T21:32:14 < boddax> USBDM/
2019-05-30T21:32:14 < boddax> TIM1_CH4
2019-05-30T21:32:45 < jpa-> yes, that is correct
2019-05-30T21:32:59 < jpa-> no USART TX/RX
2019-05-30T21:33:15 < boddax> i compare datasheet of the 2 mcu 
2019-05-30T21:34:05 < boddax> with c8t6 is fine and is the same thing but different PAxx
2019-05-30T21:34:21 < boddax> seen as com port 
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2019-05-30T21:40:04 < boddax> NVIC_InitStructure.NVIC_IRQChannel = USB_LP_CAN1_RX0_IRQn;
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2019-05-30T22:26:01 < boddax> ok got it now ..better later than never :))
2019-05-30T22:26:57 < boddax> r8t6 board have pa11 and pa12 traces going to usb port
2019-05-30T22:27:44 < boddax> c8t6 i check use pa9 and 10
2019-05-30T22:28:02 < boddax> usart you mention jpa
2019-05-30T22:29:24 < boddax> since i dont know how to modify the code better cut the traces and change the pa ports
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2019-05-30T23:14:48 < upgrdman> git pros: what do i do to revert a file to it's state from the last commit? e.g. cancel changes since my last commit
2019-05-30T23:16:04 < Thorn> git checkout
2019-05-30T23:16:19 < Thorn> git checkout <file>
2019-05-30T23:17:11 < mawk> that will checkout to latest commit Thorn 
2019-05-30T23:17:14 < mawk> not revert to commit before
2019-05-30T23:17:33 < mawk> for that you do git checkout HEAD^ file
2019-05-30T23:17:38 < mawk> upgrdman ^
2019-05-30T23:17:56 < mawk> in general HEAD^^^^^ or HEAD~n for n commits before head commit
2019-05-30T23:18:15 < mawk> so for instance to change commit log/reorganize the n last commits you do git rebase -i HEAD~n
2019-05-30T23:18:44 < Thorn> >cancel changes since my last commit
2019-05-30T23:18:48 < mawk> yes
2019-05-30T23:18:55 < mawk> if the changes are committed then his commit is the last commit
2019-05-30T23:19:02 < mawk> so git checkout will checkout to the last commit, his commit
2019-05-30T23:19:09 < Thorn> sounds like HEAD not HEAD^
2019-05-30T23:19:19 < mawk> git checkout HEAD file is what you said
2019-05-30T23:19:22 < jpa-> "since the last commit" => after the latest commit, so exactly what Thorn answered
2019-05-30T23:19:49 < jpa-> HEAD^ would be "since the commit before last"
2019-05-30T23:19:54 < mawk> yes
2019-05-30T23:20:06 < mawk> I thought that's what he wanted
2019-05-30T23:20:17 < jpa-> not sure why you'd think that :P
2019-05-30T23:20:27 < upgrdman> found a menu entry in eclipse to so it. right-click file > replace with > HEAD revision
2019-05-30T23:20:30 < upgrdman> thanks guys
2019-05-30T23:20:37 < mawk> :(
2019-05-30T23:20:43 < mawk> all that pro git talk for using eclipse in the end
2019-05-30T23:20:56 < upgrdman> well most menu names are git keywords ;)
2019-05-30T23:21:03 < upgrdman> or close enough
2019-05-30T23:21:14 < mawk> yes at least you learnt about the famous head
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2019-05-30T23:21:54 < upgrdman> yes, i like HEAD
2019-05-30T23:23:08 < mawk> to reset to a given revision like head you can do git reset --hard HEAD
2019-05-30T23:23:12 < mawk> but you will lose any change
2019-05-30T23:23:24 < mawk> better stash then pull then unstash and work out calmly through conflicts
2019-05-30T23:23:31 < upgrdman> ya i just want to undo changes to some files, not all files
2019-05-30T23:23:35 < mawk> ye
2019-05-30T23:23:36 < mawk> s
2019-05-30T23:23:49 < mawk> checkout is good for a single file
2019-05-30T23:38:01 < Cracki> all that juggling might be a little easier with a usable gui... I've been using smartgit or years now
2019-05-30T23:38:55 < Cracki> it makes clear the distinction between working tree, index, and HEAD
2019-05-30T23:40:07 < Cracki> head is the commit you're on, index is things you're gonna commit, and working tree is the actual files... and it makes it easy to split your current heap of edits into sensible commits
2019-05-30T23:40:25 < Cracki> dropping all changes in a file is literally ctrl-z
2019-05-30T23:41:24 < Cracki> it's got proper side by side diff and it only shows you the changes in the current subdirectory
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2019-05-31T00:17:34 < bitmask> do solid state relays use triacs?
2019-05-31T00:17:41 < kakimir> indeed
2019-05-31T00:17:58 < bitmask> I'll have to look into how those work and what kind of noise they can introduce
2019-05-31T00:18:24 < bitmask> I'm looking for PSU designs and this old one from 1977 looks good but maybe it was just good for the time? (i'm still looking it over)
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2019-05-31T00:18:48 < bitmask> I think ive at least decided on a multi tapped transformer using triacs to switch between rails
2019-05-31T00:18:58 < bitmask> instead of a pre-regulator
2019-05-31T00:19:08 < bitmask> to avoid switching noise
2019-05-31T00:19:28 < kakimir> bitmask: it's triac, opto and snubber
2019-05-31T00:19:47 < bitmask> ok, snubber is another thing I have to look up, heard it before but dont know what it does
2019-05-31T00:21:15 < kakimir> it's RC series
2019-05-31T00:21:23 < kakimir> you can imagine what it does
2019-05-31T00:21:30 < bitmask> oh ok, so does that help with the triac noise?
2019-05-31T00:21:58 < kakimir> I think it's there for inductive loads
2019-05-31T00:22:09 < bitmask> oh, I need to read more :)
2019-05-31T00:25:51 < kakimir> not sure but it there for reasons
2019-05-31T00:26:08 < bitmask> I'll figure it out, I gotta make some money now though
2019-05-31T00:27:21 < kakimir> get that bread
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2019-05-31T00:30:07 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MbXzPTZGd6NnTkE2QAIM8MRPR4PcqlqO/view?usp=sharing
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2019-05-31T00:35:55 < mawk> I went to the xiaomi store on the champs-élysées avenue
2019-05-31T00:36:00 < Steffanx> Stop letting Google spy on me kakimir 
2019-05-31T00:36:18 < Steffanx> Did you also visit McDonalds with the golden M?
2019-05-31T00:36:22 < mawk> it's lame
2019-05-31T00:36:26 < mawk> ah no I missed that
2019-05-31T00:36:40 < mawk> xiaomi tries to mimic apple but they fail at it, the store is dirty and cold and empty
2019-05-31T00:36:49 < Steffanx> Heh
2019-05-31T00:36:52 < mawk> despite having all that white appleish design with tons of iSomething products
2019-05-31T00:37:01 < mawk> but I bought stuff nonetheless
2019-05-31T00:37:07 < mawk> a 20000mAh battery
2019-05-31T00:37:11 < kakimir> xiaomi makes some nice shiet
2019-05-31T00:37:11 < mawk> it's starting to get heavy
2019-05-31T00:37:15 < mawk> yeah
2019-05-31T00:37:54 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-05-31T00:37:58 < mawk> I bought a "fidget cube" that comes in parts, I had to put it together myself
2019-05-31T00:38:01 < mawk> it's not very satisfying
2019-05-31T00:38:04 < aandrew> heh I went to a pot dispensary here in nevada and it's set up just like the apple store
2019-05-31T00:38:05 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-05-31T00:39:08 < Steffanx> https://www.azuremagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/pot-dispensary-design-serra-portland-5.jpg aandrew ?
2019-05-31T00:39:45 < Steffanx> We don't even have such thing in dutchland :o
2019-05-31T00:39:59 < aandrew> no
2019-05-31T00:40:35 < aandrew> https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/GettyImages-1046684114W.jpg
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2019-05-31T00:41:48 < Steffanx> Heh 
2019-05-31T00:43:12 < jadew> lesson of the day: no matter how expensive a component is, buy 2
2019-05-31T00:43:36 < Steffanx> Yes always buy more than you  need
2019-05-31T00:44:51 < jadew> also, I keep getting burned on aliexpress
2019-05-31T00:44:57 < jadew> more than usual lately
2019-05-31T00:45:32 < jadew> because of the huge postal delays, the "confirmation period" passes, so the order is automatically marked as finished
2019-05-31T00:45:37 < Steffanx> Burned? What kind of crap did you buy?
2019-05-31T00:45:49 < jadew> which means I can't open a dispute when I get the part and I can't even leave feedback
2019-05-31T00:46:06 < Cracki> uh... you can request to extend buyer protection period
2019-05-31T00:46:17 < Cracki> and if it doesn't arrive, just request a refund. you'll get it.
2019-05-31T00:46:21 < Steffanx> Gotta love Romania. No long delays here. Ever.
2019-05-31T00:46:39 < jadew> Steffanx, maybe we should all move there
2019-05-31T00:47:03 < jadew> Cracki, I don't keep that close of an eye on them
2019-05-31T00:47:14 < Cracki> aliex always sent me emails before anything expired
2019-05-31T00:47:31 < Steffanx> Even the aliexpress shipping method is slow?
2019-05-31T00:47:41 < jadew> Steffanx, yeah
2019-05-31T00:47:50 < Steffanx> Often it's here in a week using that method
2019-05-31T00:48:14 < jadew> it's possible their post has a shittier arrangement with our post
2019-05-31T00:48:22 < jadew> maybe they send it by ship
2019-05-31T00:48:43 < jadew> 2 times around the world, then they stop in Romania
2019-05-31T00:48:48 < Cracki> they certainly do but then it sits in some loading dock for a few weeks
2019-05-31T00:53:04 < Steffanx> I wouldn't even use aliexpress if it took more than a month to get my crap
2019-05-31T00:53:46 < jadew> Steffanx, I'm looking for alternatives
2019-05-31T01:01:01 < Steffanx> Are the parts that obscure or just too expensive at the usual places?
2019-05-31T01:01:29 < jadew> obscure
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2019-05-31T01:02:17 < jadew> for some I was just trying to avoid requesting samples from the manufacturer because they like to anally probe you when you ask for samples
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2019-05-31T01:04:28 < Steffanx> Heh.
2019-05-31T01:05:30 < jadew> on one such order I received the wrong item
2019-05-31T01:06:09 < jadew> took me several hours of inhaling flux fumes before I realized the label on the bag didn't match what was inside
2019-05-31T01:11:19 < kakimir> what did you vaporize?
2019-05-31T01:11:26 < kakimir> resin?
2019-05-31T01:11:32 < jadew> yeah
2019-05-31T01:12:02 < jadew> (while soldering and desoldering stuff in order to figure out what's wrong)
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2019-05-31T01:33:15 < kakimir> sweet
2019-05-31T01:41:48 < kakimir> https://imgur.com/gallery/8dOoSSw
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2019-05-31T03:10:18 < englishman> hello innovators
2019-05-31T03:10:28 < englishman> 64gb microSD has fallen to $6
2019-05-31T03:10:31 < englishman> fucking nuts
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2019-05-31T03:24:51 < ds2> class 4?
2019-05-31T03:25:15 < englishman> does that still exist
2019-05-31T03:25:20 < englishman> no. legit sandisk c10
2019-05-31T03:25:26 < rajkosto> just c10 ?
2019-05-31T03:25:31 < rajkosto> no UHS class ?
2019-05-31T03:25:45 < ds2> sure it is really sandisk? they are one of the most counterfiet card
2019-05-31T03:25:51 < englishman> for someone who cant afford $2 PCBs you sure are picky
2019-05-31T03:26:00 < rajkosto> when are PCBs ever 2$
2019-05-31T03:26:12 < englishman> yes. because i got them from a major sandisk distributor that i've been buying from for years
2019-05-31T03:26:47 < rajkosto> waiting for 64GB transferred at 10MB/s which is the only thing normal class 10 guarantees is too long
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2019-05-31T04:12:34 < ds2> can't afford $2 PCBs?
2019-05-31T04:12:53 < rajkosto> where are these 2$ pcbs
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2019-05-31T04:28:16 < rajkosto> dongs, why does altium keep resetting to embed model even tho i swap to link to model all the time
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2019-05-31T06:22:14 < dongs> yeah its a bug
2019-05-31T06:22:47 < dongs> if you do 'link to model'
2019-05-31T06:22:50 < dongs> and go back to it later
2019-05-31T06:22:53 < dongs> it still becomes embedded
2019-05-31T06:22:55 < dongs> fucking garbage
2019-05-31T06:23:59 < dongs> can i blanket/.group some components and assign them to a different room somehow
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2019-05-31T06:24:04 < dongs> without moving them to a different schematic sheet
2019-05-31T06:34:30 < dongs> FUCK
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2019-05-31T06:45:04 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-31_05-45-03_clxNlfYc4.png
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2019-05-31T06:49:33 < dongs> sts website is fucking garbage
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2019-05-31T11:43:00 < Steffanx> Is BrainDamage ok?
2019-05-31T11:43:46 < jly> do you know?
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2019-05-31T11:50:33 < kakimir> +b
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2019-05-31T11:51:21 < jly> sounds all fucked up
2019-05-31T11:51:45 < jly> what did you do to him kakimir ?
2019-05-31T11:53:03 < kakimir> nothin
2019-05-31T11:56:09 < jly> I'm counting 141
2019-05-31T11:56:12 < jly> 14
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2019-05-31T12:14:00 < karlp> englishman: what other "flexible and easy to use" mqtt brokers were you looking at?
2019-05-31T12:15:37 < zyp> other than what?
2019-05-31T12:16:15 < karlp> re pcb reveng, there's also this service: https://dirtypcbs.com/store/pcbclone
2019-05-31T12:16:53 < zyp> I've mainly used emq, it seems nice
2019-05-31T12:17:26 < zyp> not that I've done anything other than start it and connect to it
2019-05-31T12:17:39 < zyp> but the auth plugins and everything looks reasonable enough
2019-05-31T12:17:45 < qyx> the problem with mqtt and generally mall the other iot infrastructure is it is not multihop
2019-05-31T12:18:02 < zyp> multihop?
2019-05-31T12:18:06 < zyp> in what sense?
2019-05-31T12:18:21 < qyx> you have an end device, a sensor
2019-05-31T12:18:40 < qyx> and you want to forward thwe data to the cloud
2019-05-31T12:18:54 < qyx> but no IP capable relay is in reach of the radio
2019-05-31T12:19:25 < qyx> the same with lorawan, it is just a copy of cellular networks
2019-05-31T12:19:44 < zyp> and?
2019-05-31T12:19:51 < qyx> every other device except the sensor itself needs to be IP capable
2019-05-31T12:20:05 < qyx> and even if it is, it has to run the broker on the first hop
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2019-05-31T12:20:24 < qyx> I have not seen any mqtt forwarding
2019-05-31T12:20:32 < qyx> blah
2019-05-31T12:20:38 < qyx> saying bullshit
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2019-05-31T12:21:02 < zyp> like this, you mean: http://www.steves-internet-guide.com/mosquitto-bridge-configuration/ ?
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2019-05-31T12:21:11 < qyx> probabnly
2019-05-31T12:22:02 < zyp> well, it exists, but I'm not sure it's very useful
2019-05-31T12:23:56 < qyx> idk, it all looks to me very useless, narrow-minded
2019-05-31T12:24:16 < qyx> get data, send over lorawan, forward over mqtt
2019-05-31T12:24:22 < zyp> emq supports clustering, but I don't think you'd use that for anything other than when you have more traffic than a single instance can handle alone
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2019-05-31T12:25:33 < qyx> if mqtt wa alowed to run ovber radio, it would be more useful
2019-05-31T12:25:39 < qyx> it was in the past afaik
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2019-05-31T12:27:17 < zyp> the way I look at it, the point of a mqtt broker is to be a central hub for state of, events from and commands to a distributed set of devices
2019-05-31T12:28:17 < zyp> the steps stuff takes to get to and from the broker is unnecessary detail, the interesting part is how everything is made available as topics in a common tree
2019-05-31T12:35:38 < jly> full power
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2019-05-31T14:49:35 < jadew> jeez, it looks like if I ship from china to china it takes 15 to 25 days :/
2019-05-31T14:50:33 < zyp> discuss: uint8_t ip4_address[4]; or uint32_t ip4_address; ?
2019-05-31T14:50:33 < Steffanx> Lol
2019-05-31T14:50:58 < qyx> the first
2019-05-31T14:51:22 < jadew> zyp, both
2019-05-31T14:51:27 < jadew> union
2019-05-31T14:51:29 < zyp> advantages of the first: consistency with other address types, easy conversion from dotted notation
2019-05-31T14:51:47 < qyx> union no worky on LE?
2019-05-31T14:51:49 < zyp> advantages of the second: fast comparisons and easy masking
2019-05-31T14:53:42 < zyp> I considered using a union, which is why I complained about lack of "cast to union" support in C a few days ago
2019-05-31T14:55:01 < karlp> v4? what sort of luddite are you? we're two versions ahead of you!
2019-05-31T14:55:16 < zyp> :)
2019-05-31T14:55:53 < zyp> fuck it, I'll just go with the array
2019-05-31T14:56:15 < jadew> you can always cast that to uint32_t for fast comparison
2019-05-31T14:56:24 < qyx> yeah, otherwise you will have to solve uint128_t issue soon
2019-05-31T14:56:51 < jadew> personally, in my libraries I just use uint32_t
2019-05-31T14:57:22 < jadew> converting it to string is not really something you come across too often and when you do, it's just the one function that does it
2019-05-31T14:57:28 < zyp> I don't think there's gonna be a need for ipv6 on this stuff any time soon
2019-05-31T14:57:42 < zyp> the ip stuff will barely be used at all
2019-05-31T14:58:46 < karlp> v6 builds in some of the addressing and node finding stuff, but... yeah, brings in more.
2019-05-31T14:58:52 < qyx> yeah it is like 640K
2019-05-31T14:58:56 < jadew> Steffanx, are you sure you're getting your stuff in less than a month with standard shipping?
2019-05-31T14:59:31 < zyp> karlp, v6 also drops directed broadcast which I decided I want :)
2019-05-31T14:59:59 < zyp> or any broadcast at all, for that matter
2019-05-31T15:00:21 < zyp> since it does subnet multicast instead
2019-05-31T15:01:13 < karlp> solution is available, the fact that it has a different name is ~irrelevant.
2019-05-31T15:01:42 < karlp> (I'm not using v6 either, don't worry)
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2019-05-31T15:02:32 < zyp> yeah? what would be the de-facto solution if I've got two networks with a router in between, and I want a node on network A to address all nodes on network B?
2019-05-31T15:02:55 < karlp> no idea.
2019-05-31T15:03:16 < qyx> use mqtt.
2019-05-31T15:03:57 < zyp> I assume it would be some sort of multicast, but I'm not sure how
2019-05-31T15:04:05 < karlp> probably, yes.
2019-05-31T15:06:34 < zyp> my current solution is nice in that I can just configure network B to 10.240.0.0/22 and use 10.243.255.255 to reach all nodes
2019-05-31T15:07:25 < zyp> it'll work both if I set an ip in network B directly on my laptop, or if it goes through a router
2019-05-31T15:17:45 < jadew> just got some more boards through DHL and I'm noticing a pattern
2019-05-31T15:17:52 < jadew> they open them all
2019-05-31T15:18:26 < zyp> they are probably cloning them
2019-05-31T15:18:29 < jadew> I don't understand what they're checking for, but all the boards had their wrapper cut
2019-05-31T15:18:30 < Steffanx> For sure jadew.
2019-05-31T15:18:31 < jadew> haha
2019-05-31T15:18:34 < Steffanx> usually its 1-2 weeks
2019-05-31T15:18:37 < Steffanx> sometimes 3
2019-05-31T15:18:56 < jadew> Steffanx, do you have access to ePacket or some service like that?
2019-05-31T15:18:58 < catphish> zyp: i don't think that subnet math is right there
2019-05-31T15:19:03 < Steffanx> but it seems aliexpress and postnl work together (well). The tracking number at all is all postnl stuff.
2019-05-31T15:19:11 < Steffanx> at least, postnl knows it.
2019-05-31T15:19:19 < zyp> catphish, sorry, /14, not /22
2019-05-31T15:19:23 < jadew> Steffanx, I see
2019-05-31T15:19:23 < catphish> :)
2019-05-31T15:20:00 < jadew> shouldn't it be 16?
2019-05-31T15:20:22 < zyp> why?
2019-05-31T15:20:45 < jadew> you mask first two bytes
2019-05-31T15:20:45 < Steffanx> jadew: Though no postnl tracking information until it's in the netherlands, but i always enter the aliexpress track and trace code in the postnl app and it shows up when it's in dutchland.
2019-05-31T15:21:00 < jadew> isn't that how it works?
2019-05-31T15:21:09 < Steffanx> The customs delays is like 1-2 days i think
2019-05-31T15:21:14 < Steffanx> *delay
2019-05-31T15:21:22 < jadew> Steffanx, I wouldn't mind no tracking at all if it arrived in 2-3 weeks
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2019-05-31T15:23:53 < jadew> anyway, I need to solve this
2019-05-31T15:24:29 < jadew> if shipping to china takes weeks too, then using a freight forward service is also useless
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2019-05-31T15:25:35 < zyp> jadew, the entire 10.0.0.0/8 range is reserved for private use, so I get to subdivide it how I like
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2019-05-31T15:26:00 < zyp> 10.240.0.0/14 means 10.240.0.0-10.243.255.255
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2019-05-31T15:26:09 < jadew> ah, ok
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2019-05-31T15:26:41 < jadew> I didn't realize you wanted to touch the second number in the address too
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2019-05-31T15:27:25 < zyp> I'm gonna have my devices take 10.241.* or 10.242.* depending on type and generate their last two octets from their serial
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2019-05-31T15:28:34 < zyp> I want the scheme easy to remember too
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2019-05-31T15:29:13 < catphish> seems like /15 would suffice :)
2019-05-31T15:29:49 < catphish> zyp: also, why i use legacy IP protocol :(
2019-05-31T15:29:53 < catphish> *u
2019-05-31T15:30:14 < zyp> because there's no benefit going with ipv6 for this
2019-05-31T15:31:02 < catphish> but why ipv4?
2019-05-31T15:31:09 < zyp> because there's no benefit going with ipv6 for this
2019-05-31T15:31:14 < catphish> ipv6 is the current standard
2019-05-31T15:31:14 < PaulFertser> RFC6540 doesn't list that as a valid excuse ;)
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2019-05-31T15:31:30 < catphish> surely you'd want a benefit to go with a legacy version
2019-05-31T15:31:38 < catphish> rather than vice versa
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2019-05-31T15:33:11 < zyp> catphish, because it's easier to acheive what I want with ipv4
2019-05-31T15:33:44 < catphish> that's the infuriating part isn't it, ipv6 is needlessly more difficult for some things :(
2019-05-31T15:34:09 < catphish> broadcasty things in particular, and all those extra bytes :(
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2019-05-31T15:34:24 < zyp> I mean, I don't really need ip at all
2019-05-31T15:34:37 < zyp> my current bootloader protocol works fine on top of plain ethernet
2019-05-31T15:35:28 < zyp> it's just that I want something easier to work with on the other end, and wrapping stuff in ipv4/udp fits that bill
2019-05-31T15:37:20 < catphish> yeah, i usually find myself using ipv4/udp even where it really doesn't matter
2019-05-31T15:38:28 < catphish> though plain ethernet might be tempting
2019-05-31T15:38:42 < catphish> easy to debug from a PC if you use UDP though
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2019-05-31T15:44:12 < zyp> plain ethernet frames are kinda annoying to work with on windows, and it makes it necessary to pick a network interface
2019-05-31T15:44:25 < karlp> yeah, there's a reason we use IP
2019-05-31T15:45:01 < zyp> using ipv4 solves both those problems, and adding a router in between that does dhcp even avoids having to manually configure the ip
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2019-05-31T16:05:41 < englishman> zyp: you can't cast to a union? what about a typedef union?
2019-05-31T16:07:31 < zyp> nope
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2019-05-31T16:08:27 < englishman> whoa it's a gcc compiler option? wtf
2019-05-31T16:09:34 < zyp> if you have a function taking a union type, and you've got a variable of one of the member types, as far as I can tell the only standard compliant way of doing it is constructing a temporary instance of the union, fill the appropriate member and feed it to the function
2019-05-31T16:12:33 < jpa-> zyp: ipv6 + router advertisements works pretty well for that also; but i agree that it's pretty much the same effort as for ipv4
2019-05-31T16:13:23 < jpa-> main benefit from ipv6 is that you can hardcode the address and be quite confident about no conflicts (unless you accidentally assign same serial number twice yourself)
2019-05-31T16:13:24 < zyp> jpa-, yeah, except I'd need a way to route the multicast
2019-05-31T16:14:22 < jpa-> yeah, i haven't really studied broadcast/multicast on either
2019-05-31T16:14:57 < zyp> ipv6 simply doesn't have broadcast, as far as I understand :)
2019-05-31T16:16:09 < rajkosto> it does
2019-05-31T16:16:11 < rajkosto> link local
2019-05-31T16:16:53 < zyp> the spec defines that as multicast
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2019-05-31T17:58:03 < aandrew> hm, I can't say I've tried to cast to a union before
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2019-05-31T18:27:35 < englishman> fucking pink noise
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2019-05-31T18:33:14 < jadew> wtf... shipping to china from china is more expensive than shipping to Romania
2019-05-31T18:33:39 < karlp> hence the arguments in the postal union about receiver costs :)
2019-05-31T18:34:35 < jadew> it looks like I'm stuck with the snail mail and their fucking import taxes
2019-05-31T18:35:07 < jadew> they charge me $10 for everything above $12
2019-05-31T18:35:10 < jadew> then they add VAT
2019-05-31T18:35:35 < jadew> so if I want to sample something (which I do a lot), I have to pay that ridiculous fee
2019-05-31T18:36:25 < jadew> (on top of having to wait months)
2019-05-31T18:41:08 < dongs> man, youre doing it wrong
2019-05-31T18:41:15 < dongs> also, shipping inside china is practically free
2019-05-31T18:41:28 < dongs> there's literally dozens of internal couriers
2019-05-31T18:41:51 < jadew> dongs, I must not be shopping on the right website
2019-05-31T18:42:10 < dongs> why are you shipping on a website
2019-05-31T18:42:15 < jadew> aliexpress is quoting $5 for $2 products when to Romania the shipping is free
2019-05-31T18:42:42 < jadew> dongs, the only guy I found was that dude that just forwards stuff
2019-05-31T18:42:54 < dongs> yeah you gotta keep looking
2019-05-31T18:43:07 < dongs> start looking for random components on aliexpress
2019-05-31T18:43:10 < dongs> and contacting them by chat
2019-05-31T18:43:19 < dongs> like relays, transistors, ics, whatever
2019-05-31T18:43:34 < dongs> and chat all of them up and ask if they can do some sourcing/shipping of stuff for you
2019-05-31T18:44:02 < jadew> sounds good, I'll give it a try
2019-05-31T18:45:09 < dongs> man i still need to know how i can have different rooms on same schematic sheet
2019-05-31T18:45:17 < dongs> i want to group stuff but I don't wanna fucking move everything together with group
2019-05-31T18:45:22 < dongs> er together with room
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2019-05-31T19:00:50 < dongs> wow class generator is completely fuckign borken
2019-05-31T19:00:51 < dongs> what the fuck is this shit
2019-05-31T19:01:01 < rajkosto> did you uncheck the thing to generate implicit classes 
2019-05-31T19:01:04 < rajkosto> in project settings
2019-05-31T19:01:06 < rajkosto> that i always have to do
2019-05-31T19:01:11 < dongs> thats if you dont use rooms
2019-05-31T19:01:14 < dongs> i am ACTUALLY USING ROOMS
2019-05-31T19:02:04 < rajkosto> this is totally not good
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2019-05-31T19:03:22 < dongs> wow it doesnt work
2019-05-31T19:03:32 < dongs> D->C
2019-05-31T19:03:35 < dongs> 'object class explore'
2019-05-31T19:03:38 < dongs> component classes
2019-05-31T19:03:41 < dongs> right click, add new class
2019-05-31T19:03:44 < dongs> call it NIGGER or somethign
2019-05-31T19:03:51 < dongs> close out, go back to pcb, select some shit
2019-05-31T19:04:04 < dongs> D-C, go to new class, select it, compoment class generator on the bottom
2019-05-31T19:04:16 < dongs> for some reason it preffilles gay shit, so set everything to ANY except selection
2019-05-31T19:04:20 < dongs> it adds proper shit
2019-05-31T19:04:26 < dongs> but hten clicking OK, 'members' tab is fucking *
2019-05-31T19:04:31 < dongs> non-members lists all unrelated shit
2019-05-31T19:04:35 < dongs> fucking broken shitware, damn
2019-05-31T19:04:40 < rajkosto> every time
2019-05-31T19:04:41 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-05-31_18-03-29_6lGph9rK3.png
2019-05-31T19:06:20 < dongs> i dont want to put every fucking separate chip into a different schematic sheet
2019-05-31T19:06:27 < dongs> just because this faggotware can't fucking manage rooms properly
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2019-05-31T19:13:06 < dongs> hm i think theres  realyl no way. fml, gonna just move shit to different rooms...
2019-05-31T19:13:24 < dongs> differnt scheamtic sheets that is
2019-05-31T19:15:10 < rajkosto> for classes cant you just put them in a ----- box in the schematic and assign the class attribute to it
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2019-05-31T19:16:13 < englishman> dongs
2019-05-31T19:16:16 < englishman> blanket
2019-05-31T19:16:26 < rajkosto> yes thats what i mean
2019-05-31T19:16:27 < englishman> +directive
2019-05-31T19:16:33 < dongs> englishman: doesnt wokr
2019-05-31T19:18:41 < rajkosto> last time i used that was in 17
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2019-05-31T19:22:16 < englishman> hmmm
2019-05-31T19:24:16 < englishman> wtf
2019-05-31T19:25:16 < englishman> can't assign that rule in sch
2019-05-31T19:25:36 < dongs> yes
2019-05-31T19:25:53 < dongs> if i didnt already autism about this for half a day i wouldnt be asking here
2019-05-31T19:26:02 < englishman> so
2019-05-31T19:26:03 < dongs> currently moving tiny bits of schematic across separate sheets jsut so i can ahve different rooms for them
2019-05-31T19:26:07 < englishman> make ind sheets
2019-05-31T19:26:11 < dongs> yep..
2019-05-31T19:26:11 < englishman> then make a hierarchical one
2019-05-31T19:26:14 < dongs> yes..
2019-05-31T19:26:17 < dongs> thats what im fucking doing
2019-05-31T19:26:17 < englishman> done
2019-05-31T19:26:20 < englishman> autism over
2019-05-31T19:26:20 < dongs> beacuse fucking retarded altidong
2019-05-31T19:26:28 < englishman> yes that's kinda dumb
2019-05-31T19:26:36 < englishman> I will open a bug
2019-05-31T19:27:54 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/YzD8mX8.png look at this retarded nigger shit.
2019-05-31T19:28:05 < dongs> just cuz i wanted to have PD chip separate from fucking socket/dc/dc
2019-05-31T19:28:20 < dongs> literally every fucking pin ill have to drag a wire in higher level sch
2019-05-31T19:28:28 < dongs> im not ven trying to make it pretty at this point im just fucking psised off
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2019-05-31T19:30:12 < englishman> ah got it
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2019-05-31T19:32:00 < englishman> blanket is just for net classes
2019-05-31T19:32:15 < englishman> you add ClassName param to each obj
2019-05-31T19:32:29 < englishman> then check gneeeate component classes
2019-05-31T19:32:36 < englishman> works
2019-05-31T19:34:40 < englishman> sending video via teledong
2019-05-31T19:34:58 < dongs> pretty sure i did taht and it didnt work
2019-05-31T19:36:55 < englishman> you can easily add components to those classes in the PCB desifn-> classes editor
2019-05-31T19:37:12 < dongs> you are shitting me motherfucker
2019-05-31T19:37:16 < dongs> that dialog is retarded as fuck
2019-05-31T19:37:23 < zyp> dongs, just harness the shit?
2019-05-31T19:37:23 < dongs> why cant i select some shit and rightclick to add to class
2019-05-31T19:37:26 < dongs> i TRIED to use that fuckign dialog
2019-05-31T19:37:36 < dongs> i dont fucking memorize each fucking component i want in that room
2019-05-31T19:37:37 < englishman> as long as project options -> class generation -> generate component classes is checked
2019-05-31T19:37:52 < englishman> yeah no way to blanket assign params I don't think
2019-05-31T19:38:09 < zyp> got my nexus 5x back today
2019-05-31T19:38:14 < zyp> they changed the motherboard
2019-05-31T19:38:45 < dongs> also what? i made a blanket
2019-05-31T19:38:48 < dongs> and addeed ClassName
2019-05-31T19:38:52 < dongs> and compiled and updated
2019-05-31T19:38:54 < englishman> blanket is only for net classes
2019-05-31T19:38:56 < dongs> and its not in the DC list?
2019-05-31T19:38:58 < englishman> not component classes
2019-05-31T19:39:19 < dongs> so i'm back t o the same shit as before?
2019-05-31T19:39:30 < englishman> my way works it's just a little tedious
2019-05-31T19:39:43 < dongs> waht is"your wat"? manually adding parts into d,c dialog?
2019-05-31T19:40:02 < englishman> ya
2019-05-31T19:40:25 < englishman> unless there is a way to blanket assign parameters
2019-05-31T19:40:35 < englishman> in sch
2019-05-31T19:41:35 < dongs> User-defined component classes are handled in the schematic through the "ClassName" parameter in the symbol's properties. In other words... in the schematic, double click the part symbol and add a new parameter called "ClassName" and change the value of the parameter to your desired component class name that you gave them in the PCB (i.e. FinePitch).
2019-05-31T19:41:40 < dongs> fuck offffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
2019-05-31T19:41:43 < dongs> but lets try this
2019-05-31T19:41:47 < englishman> or in DC menu
2019-05-31T19:41:56 < dongs> dc doesn't work with selections
2019-05-31T19:42:00 < dongs> thats just not going to work
2019-05-31T19:42:15 < englishman> hence, tedious
2019-05-31T19:42:59 < dongs> motehrfcuckersdlfjkslgdhjk
2019-05-31T19:43:03 < dongs> it does nothing
2019-05-31T19:43:05 < dongs> fucking useless garbage
2019-05-31T19:43:40 < dongs> oh
2019-05-31T19:43:47 < dongs> i need to enable 'user defined classes'
2019-05-31T19:43:54 < dongs> bottom of class generation tab
2019-05-31T19:44:00 < dongs> under c,o in schematic
2019-05-31T19:44:16 < dongs> NICE
2019-05-31T19:44:17 < dongs> it works
2019-05-31T19:44:21 < dongs> i think blanket would work too
2019-05-31T19:44:22 < englishman> I don't have that
2019-05-31T19:44:24 < englishman> I have other options
2019-05-31T19:44:30 < englishman> you must be on old shit
2019-05-31T19:44:40 < englishman> blanket is just for net classes
2019-05-31T19:45:08 < dongs> ok blanket doesnt work
2019-05-31T19:45:10 < dongs> but parameter does
2019-05-31T19:45:14 < englishman> rite
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2019-05-31T19:53:05 < dongs> haha..
2019-05-31T19:53:09 < dongs> it doesnt remove it from the parent room
2019-05-31T19:53:21 < dongs> motherfucker
2019-05-31T19:53:28 < dongs> ok enough of this autism lmao its 2am
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2019-05-31T19:56:26 < karlp> I've been working on perl today, it's awesome!
2019-05-31T19:57:25 < englishman> yeah you remove sheet room separately
2019-05-31T19:57:31 < englishman> I showed you that in the video
2019-05-31T19:58:04 < dongs> ah, well i suppose i could remove the main room once i separate all teh parts on sheet
2019-05-31T19:58:12 < dongs> but i did it with room definition in D,R
2019-05-31T19:58:19 < dongs> InComponentClass('USB_PD') and Not (InComponentClass('CYPRESS') or InComponentClass('TYPEC_ONBOARD') or InComponentClass('TYPEC_SOCKET'))
2019-05-31T19:58:28 < dongs> so it took out other shit
2019-05-31T19:58:33 < dongs> this wont sync back to schematic etc
2019-05-31T19:58:36 < dongs> but at this point idgaf
2019-05-31T20:01:20 < dongs> ok, i can work wiht this. but not today. zzz
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2019-05-31T20:07:03 < decimad>  Howdy folks, it's been a long time... I'm completely decortexified by now it seems
2019-05-31T20:13:00 < Steffanx> Who are you?
2019-05-31T20:15:39 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@2a01:e35:8b76:a0f0:9c0a:ba8:393d:1298] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2019-05-31T20:21:00 < decimad> Indeed! I
2019-05-31T20:21:17 < decimad> I'm the one asking uninformed questions over the next few days
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2019-05-31T20:23:20 < decimad> For example I remember (incorrectly) that depending on some configuration, flash was aliased to address 0 on stm32f4's ... however, it is not on my device for some reason, but it must have been when it actually worked, as the source that initializes VTOR to 0 was not changed Oo
2019-05-31T20:25:58 < decimad> I designed a flash<->ram switch in there... maybe that corroded over the years? hrmmm
2019-05-31T20:29:25 < boddax> if have caps leaking maybe why not
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2019-05-31T20:33:02 < decimad> strangely enough the stm32f7 manual's memory map shows dedicated stuff at address 0, not some aliasing
2019-05-31T20:50:50 < decimad> Oh, maybe that aliasing was stm32f4 only, I think I took the wrong backup
2019-05-31T20:54:36 < decimad> ding, that's it... that was the state of the project when I was on the stm32f4, which had aliasing flash to 0x0... that seems to be the reason why chibios auto-maps the vector section to vtor instead of a define beginning with m7 support...
2019-05-31T20:55:43 < decimad> do you know a source for a stm32f7 .svd that actually defines the cortex system registers?
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2019-05-31T21:06:58 < mawk> cube ide has them
2019-05-31T21:07:06 < mawk> so they exist
2019-05-31T21:13:27 < decimad> I remember cube to be a good name, considering the borg... but if it has good svds then I'll try to overcome my shadow
2019-05-31T21:16:54 < decimad> hrmmm, mso5074 hacked up or rtb2004?
2019-05-31T21:42:46 < boddax> is that oscilloscopes
2019-05-31T21:43:33 < boddax> mso tektronix rtb rhode+schwartz
2019-05-31T21:54:28 < decimad> yea, but I meant the rigol mso5000 thingy...
2019-05-31T21:55:02 < decimad> firmware might be lacking and black is not exactly sexy...
2019-05-31T21:55:26 < decimad> but its 2k below with analazyer adapter...
2019-05-31T22:02:40 < boddax> sexy? lol
2019-05-31T22:08:06 < boddax> look at dave review both scopes , for my opiniom rbt is better
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2019-05-31T22:27:57 < decimad> well I mean in my personal view the rtb looks much more satisfactory ;´)
2019-05-31T22:28:32 < decimad> larger screen, less noisy, blinky blinky ... but is that worth it :D
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2019-05-31T23:23:21 < jly> congratulation, the N count for May 2019 - 16
2019-05-31T23:26:05 < Cracki> nnnnougat
2019-05-31T23:27:13 < jly> 2019-05-31T19:27:54 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/YzD8mX8.png look at this retarded n----r shit.
2019-05-31T23:27:33 < jly> our top performer in the last hours before closing
2019-05-31T23:29:04 < specing> jly: was this a self-censor or did you censor it?
2019-05-31T23:29:17 < jly> i did so it didn't throw the count out
2019-05-31T23:30:04 < Steffanx> Hm, what's the word?
2019-05-31T23:30:11 < jly> sounds all fucked up
2019-05-31T23:31:12 < jly> we still have another 30 mins, my bad, feel free to FIRE OFF
2019-05-31T23:31:31 < Cracki> brb grepping aspell dicts
2019-05-31T23:36:32 < Cracki> nibbler,niftier,nicker,n----r,nigher,niggler,nimbler,nipper,nippier,nicer,nitpicker,nightwear,niter
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2019-05-31T23:50:45 -!- DisruptiveNL [~Disruptiv@94-212-50-75.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-05-31T23:52:25 < specing> jly: ah, I was wondering if something was wrong with dongs 
--- Log closed Sat Jun 01 00:00:14 2019