--- Log opened Sat Jun 01 00:00:14 2019
2019-06-01T00:06:30 < Cracki> the knight who says NI! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak7pCYamWo4
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2019-06-01T01:13:06 < jadew> does anyone know why people do meth?
2019-06-01T01:13:23 < jadew> is it because it's cheap?
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2019-06-01T01:27:12 < jly> lol
2019-06-01T01:27:49 < jly> is it june yet
2019-06-01T01:37:46 < Steffanx> Yes sir
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2019-06-01T02:25:26 < englishman> it makes you feel awesome. don't knock it til you try it
2019-06-01T02:25:56 < jadew> so it's not price related? it's just a great drug?
2019-06-01T02:27:29 < Cracki> google image search says it also makes you beautiful
2019-06-01T02:27:53 < jadew> that's why I'm asking, it seems to mess you up
2019-06-01T02:28:24 < Cracki> watch Breaking Bad? :P
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2019-06-01T02:28:35 < jadew> just started yesterday, yeah :)
2019-06-01T02:29:40 < Cracki> one aspect I loved about the show is how they end so many episodes with something that blows you away
2019-06-01T02:29:52 < jadew> no spoilers please :)
2019-06-01T02:30:21 < Cracki> spoiler: the girl with no face never dies
2019-06-01T02:30:26 < Cracki> oh, that's GoT
2019-06-01T02:30:42 < jadew> heh, I was hoping she wouldn't
2019-06-01T02:30:51 < Cracki> also because his wife said she'd cut his balls off if he laid a pencil on her
2019-06-01T02:31:19 < Cracki> so I guess he'll bury them both at the same time
2019-06-01T02:42:06 < decimad> which show?
2019-06-01T02:47:51 < Cracki> the one with the blond girl that's carried on black slave hands
2019-06-01T03:01:36 < decimad> this is not ringing a bell for me sadly
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2019-06-01T03:31:02 < Cracki> I think riding a dragon rings her bell
2019-06-01T03:32:11 < Cracki> https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8989192960/hCB673386/
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2019-06-01T04:04:05 < Cracki> has anyone here had some fun with scrum and all that?
2019-06-01T04:04:37 < Cracki> (I'm rewatching monty python and the holy grail, at the part with the monks rn)
2019-06-01T04:05:24 < jadew> scrum is hipster garbage
2019-06-01T04:05:52 < jadew> a framework for people who don't know what they're doing and a waste of time
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2019-06-01T04:09:18 < jadew> we discussed it here before (maybe a couple of years back)
2019-06-01T04:10:50 < Cracki> great, I feel validated
2019-06-01T04:11:20 < Cracki> so I take it this place also doesn't have a lot of love for google's very own blub language, "go"
2019-06-01T04:12:08 < jadew> I haven't tried it/ever looked into it, so I can't comment on it
2019-06-01T04:12:28 < Cracki> their stated goal was to make a language for mediocre code monkeys
2019-06-01T04:12:43 < jadew> that makes sense, to lower the costs
2019-06-01T04:12:43 < Cracki> that's why it lacks any kind of advanced features or syntax
2019-06-01T04:13:14 < Cracki> it's a kind of "assembly language" that all the indians they hire can read and write
2019-06-01T04:14:30 < Cracki> a while ago when I worked at the local uni's data/compute center, they explicitly told us NOT to use any "fancy" python features because "nobody can understand that"
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2019-06-01T07:37:34 < rajkosto> im tryin out STM32CubeIDE
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2019-06-01T08:04:29 < jly> RIP
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2019-06-01T08:12:18 < rajkosto> oh cool
2019-06-01T08:12:25 < rajkosto> it doesnt quote the gcc parameters 
2019-06-01T08:12:29 < rajkosto> so i have a space in my user name
2019-06-01T08:12:32 < rajkosto> and it cant find lol
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2019-06-01T10:47:42 < boddax> just installing cubeide debian linux ..gcc compiler is included with installation?
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2019-06-01T14:27:14 < dongs> cocks
2019-06-01T14:34:41 < Steffanx> Yes, windows and/or nvidia are cocks. Sometimes after sleep my entire 2nd screen hangs with the stuff it had before i had window sleep. The only thing that works is the cursor on it -_-
2019-06-01T14:34:57 < Steffanx> Can move windows to it, but they wont show up.
2019-06-01T14:48:11 < Steffanx> awh there you go https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/second-monitor-is-frozen-when-waking-from-sleep/18bffb80-48b8-4fcd-96ec-04921c65af46?page=1
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2019-06-01T17:52:24 < Rickta59> i wonder why they keep releasing new ides instead of just making one of them work properly
2019-06-01T17:52:50 < Rickta59> they bought atollic .. wasn't that enough to hit the check box?
2019-06-01T17:58:28 < decimad> are product-specific ides liked amongst the developer community?
2019-06-01T17:59:02 < Rickta59> i like editors that give me code completion and auto source indexing
2019-06-01T17:59:27 < decimad> I'm more attracted to the one ide to rule them all philosophy... Currently I'm doing vs code + cmake building ... however it's lacking multi-window support :(
2019-06-01T18:00:02 < Rickta59> that is actually what i'm using now .. but just make
2019-06-01T18:00:25 < decimad> so I'm currently checking out vs community + visual gdb...
2019-06-01T18:00:29 < decimad> well, tomorrow
2019-06-01T18:00:30 < decimad> :)
2019-06-01T18:01:06 < Rickta59> if i was on windows I might check those out
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2019-06-01T18:02:08 < Rickta59> i did try out the stm32cubeide last night just to see how badly it would fail :)
2019-06-01T18:02:12 < Rickta59> it did
2019-06-01T18:02:39 < Rickta59> anything with the revision 1.0.0 is hopeless 
2019-06-01T18:04:02 < decimad> ow, do you  know a tool where I can define a microcontroller with units and internal mutliplexers in order to find a pinning solution algorithmically given some constraints and all?
2019-06-01T18:05:47 < Rickta59> sounds like something for you to write
2019-06-01T18:06:02 < decimad> I'm talking 500 pin packages with common cause failure restrictions and stuff...
2019-06-01T18:06:47 < decimad> additionally to the internal multiplexer constraints... it is not fun to do this manually
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2019-06-01T18:08:34 < jpa-> the kind of contraints and restrictions tend to vary so much from project to project that it might be easier for you to just write a script that bruteforces it for your purpose
2019-06-01T18:12:22 < decimad> yeah, of course it would need to be some kind of generic framework for you to define constraints and some kind of pruning
2019-06-01T18:12:42 < decimad> just so that you don't need to rewrite the brute-forcer from scratch each time
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2019-06-01T18:24:38 < Cracki> sounds like sat/smt/LP solving
2019-06-01T18:25:10 < Cracki> how about you start as specific as possible. can't design abstractly for cases you haven't encountered.
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2019-06-01T18:30:14 < decimad> well, I didn't pay enough theoretical attention back then, but obviously there a algorithms for which you only need to translate the domain specific constraints into something tractable...
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2019-06-01T18:32:28 < decimad> so if you implement those constraint relations as some scriptable stuff, you could probably get something workable... but I don't exactly have an idea about how "complex" the problem is compared to solvable stuff, at the realistic pin counts and number of internal variables...
2019-06-01T18:32:57 < Cracki> while you're being so vague, nobody else can tell you either
2019-06-01T18:33:00 < decimad> simply try and fail is the way to go :D
2019-06-01T18:33:36 < Cracki> it's probably easiest to hit some consulting companies and ask one to do it for you
2019-06-01T18:34:00 < Cracki> they might just send you to the manufacturer of your gazillion pin package because they already have something for the problem
2019-06-01T18:34:02 < decimad> well, the normal pinning problem an mcu developer runs into should be well known here I figured :D
2019-06-01T18:36:17 < decimad> of course they all do, but that's maybe some kind of fab tool they're using? I haven't seen something in the wild yet
2019-06-01T18:36:51 < Cracki> do you mean you use MCUs, or do you mean to say you use things like cadence to design silicon?
2019-06-01T18:37:15 < decimad> use mcus, no asic design
2019-06-01T18:37:38 < Cracki> be specific. what exactly has 500 pins
2019-06-01T18:37:45 < decimad> the microcontroller
2019-06-01T18:37:47 < decimad> :)
2019-06-01T18:37:54 < Cracki> I said specific
2019-06-01T18:38:09 < decimad> what does it matter which one? they're all built the same imho
2019-06-01T18:38:15 < Cracki> wrong
2019-06-01T18:38:36 < Cracki> some have special functions fixed to particular pins
2019-06-01T18:38:47 < Cracki> some can switch functions between two or three alternate pins
2019-06-01T18:38:54 < decimad> they all have some kind of internal units you can use, some constraints on correlating signals and a bunch of internal multiplexers to connect to some pad
2019-06-01T18:38:57 < Cracki> some have huge muxes where you can connect anything to anything
2019-06-01T18:39:03 < Cracki> you're being way too abstract
2019-06-01T18:39:15 < Cracki> I guess that's your problem, you're lost in abstraction
2019-06-01T18:40:26 < decimad> I asked if there's a tool that handles the problem at that abstraction level, it's not that I couldn't solve the specific problems manually, except that I find it's a waste of time really
2019-06-01T18:41:04 < Cracki> well, cubemx kinda tries to help you assign functions to pins, and it checks conflicts/interference
2019-06-01T18:41:34 < Cracki> you'll always have to ask the mfg.
2019-06-01T18:41:43 < Cracki> generic shit is generic, so it never solves the problem.
2019-06-01T18:42:01 < decimad> if there was a free tool at the abstraction level I stated, I wouldn't :(
2019-06-01T18:42:02 < Cracki> you don't expect anyone to have come together to find a common file format to describe their shit in?
2019-06-01T18:42:18 < Cracki> lol free tools, for SAT/SMT/LP solving _domain specific_ problems?
2019-06-01T18:42:33 < Cracki> I can tell you there are solvers you can use, but you have to do the domain specific shit
2019-06-01T18:43:00 < Cracki> how about you give me the VERY specific part number of that 500 pin thing
2019-06-01T18:43:02 < decimad> well, the idea would be to translate the domain specific stuff to something they understand... it should be manageable I guss
2019-06-01T18:43:09 < Cracki> because I haven't seen a *microcontroller* with 500 pins yet
2019-06-01T18:43:27 < decimad> no?
2019-06-01T18:43:29 < decimad> oh
2019-06-01T18:43:39 < Cracki> cpus certainly, display controllers certainly
2019-06-01T18:44:24 < Cracki> microcontrollers? 100-200 pins tops, and then they have always had enough option to remap functions to pins to make it work for me
2019-06-01T18:45:22 < Cracki> anything with that number of pins needs them for some kind of parallel busses, so you're nailed already
2019-06-01T18:45:45 < Cracki> and fpgas have software to place and route, so that's solved
2019-06-01T18:46:39 < decimad> but it's not exactly like the problem changes if you have twice the pin count, no?
2019-06-01T18:47:31 < Cracki> the scale of it changes
2019-06-01T18:47:40 < Cracki> you wouldn't ask if you had a dozen pins to juggle
2019-06-01T18:48:09 < decimad> well, it's the infineon line of microcontrollers... they go up to bga 516
2019-06-01T18:48:25 < decimad> can you help me better now? :)
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2019-06-01T18:48:28 < Cracki> you must be a romulan, the way you like to volunteer information
2019-06-01T18:48:39 < Cracki> at least that helps paint a picture :)
2019-06-01T18:48:52 < Cracki> and I'm not sure I grasp your problem exactly
2019-06-01T18:49:36 < Cracki> the simple approach is to hook up peripherals to the primary pins of the required function
2019-06-01T18:49:41 < Cracki> and then look at conflicts
2019-06-01T18:49:55 < decimad> that's what you'll be doing two days long...
2019-06-01T18:50:02 < decimad> for each instance
2019-06-01T18:50:03 < Cracki> and why is that?
2019-06-01T18:50:07 < Cracki> "instance"?
2019-06-01T18:50:11 < decimad> new product
2019-06-01T18:51:50 < decimad> well if two days actually are enough... and then if you tell the product manager that you couldn't find a solution... ;)
2019-06-01T18:51:56 < Cracki> do you actually use more than half the available pins?
2019-06-01T18:52:00 < decimad> yes
2019-06-01T18:52:09 < Cracki> curious
2019-06-01T18:52:30 < Cracki> what takes up so many pins?
2019-06-01T18:52:42 < Cracki> some 128 bit parallel bus or what
2019-06-01T18:52:52 < Cracki> lots of ADCs?
2019-06-01T18:52:53 < decimad> replicated input output modules and stuff
2019-06-01T18:52:56 < decimad> yup
2019-06-01T18:53:10 < Cracki> so you call up the manufacturer and explain your problem
2019-06-01T18:53:44 < Cracki> they'll be glad to make their product as buyable as possible... they don't want you to switch sources
2019-06-01T18:54:30 < Cracki> or you do your own solver... which requires DATA first.
2019-06-01T18:55:16 < Cracki> starting from how alternate functions are configured (mux register bits), and how that maps functions to pins
2019-06-01T18:55:19 < decimad> well that might be an option since you can calculate the costs of not having such a tool after a few years... yet not having to switch tools for a different manufacturer seems like a cool project too, if it's not driven by ttm or cost motivitations ;)
2019-06-01T18:55:27 < decimad> sure
2019-06-01T18:55:57 < Cracki> such in house tools are only feasible if you have someone who understands, REALLY understands, the problem AND the solution
2019-06-01T18:56:10 < decimad> that would be the idea... describe the package, muxes, and peripherals and have a language to describe additional constraints
2019-06-01T18:56:39 < Cracki> brute force is an option if you don't care about solvers, but you still have to write down the knowledge about a specific pin mux
2019-06-01T18:56:59 < decimad> sure, no way around that
2019-06-01T18:57:00 < mawk> bruteforce with 500 pins would start to get costly
2019-06-01T18:57:12 < decimad> plus it could spit you out the config sources at the same time
2019-06-01T18:57:15 < mawk> you're a tax payer, ask for computer time on NSA clusters
2019-06-01T18:57:27 < Cracki> mawk, you only have to bruteforce the mux register bits
2019-06-01T18:57:44 < Cracki> because that's the whole state of the pin mux
2019-06-01T18:57:52 < Cracki> (pinmux, AF, ...)
2019-06-01T18:57:59 < Cracki> ... hopefully
2019-06-01T18:58:08 < Cracki> there might be more constraints
2019-06-01T18:58:14 < Cracki> so... talk to the mfg
2019-06-01T18:58:56 < Cracki> they want to sell you that 500 pin beast by the reel, they're making money, they can invest a little support
2019-06-01T18:59:00 < decimad> sure there are, since the set of pinouts of the required peripherals is limited, and you need some combinations of peripherals etc.
2019-06-01T18:59:21 < Cracki> that's what I mean by "pin mux"
2019-06-01T18:59:33 < Cracki> that's the solution space to search
2019-06-01T18:59:45 < Cracki> constraints are "I want this peripheral muxed at all"
2019-06-01T19:00:03 < mawk> yeah it doesn't sound a hard computational problem
2019-06-01T19:00:14 < mawk> set of allowed pins per peripheral, try to content everybody
2019-06-01T19:01:09 < decimad> well I assume there's some great potential for pruning the search space, so nsa computers are not required...
2019-06-01T19:01:24 < Cracki> cubemx doesn't even use a proper solver for its clock three wanking. a proper solver wouldn't make the GUI twitch like that
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2019-06-01T19:02:28 < Cracki> don't worry about that. proper solvers are proper *because* they contain the theory to narrow the search space
2019-06-01T19:03:13 < mawk> yeah it took like 15s on an i5 for an impossible clock configuration
2019-06-01T19:03:16 < mawk> for it to realize it's impossible
2019-06-01T19:03:25 < mawk> it's likely bruteforce
2019-06-01T19:06:17 < decimad> what would be a keyword to search for "proper solver" for this kind of problem... so I can do some digging...
2019-06-01T19:06:37 < decimad> can you prune the search space for me, that is ;)
2019-06-01T19:10:30 < Cracki> sat/smt is one family of problems defined on bits/bitstrings, "linear programming" is real valued numbers
2019-06-01T19:10:49 < Cracki> z3 is one particular solver
2019-06-01T19:11:22 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfiability_modulo_theories
2019-06-01T19:11:53 < Cracki> SAT is likely enough for your case. SMT solvers handle that of course
2019-06-01T19:13:00 < Cracki> this is university level stuff
2019-06-01T19:13:26 < Cracki> likely can't be approached naively/intuitively
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2019-06-01T19:14:44 < Cracki> oh, I explained smt/LP wrong... smt is about satisfiability, so any valid solution is good. LP is about optimizing inside the space of valid solutions
2019-06-01T19:16:45 < Cracki> traffic light example: per stack you'd have three variables, one for each light. you'd then write down expressions that specify what combination can occur at all
2019-06-01T19:18:02 < Cracki> and when you have a whole intersection with multiple light stacks, you'd have three variables times four stacks or something, and then you'd write down expressions that specify what lights can be on over all stacks
2019-06-01T19:18:31 < Cracki> I'm not gonna talk about temporal logic because that might be relevant for traffic lights, but not for pin muxes
2019-06-01T19:19:40 < Cracki> something I'd to for a pin mux is have variables for the bits of the mux config register(s), and then write down implications like (mux register == 0b??????) => (this and that and so on...)
2019-06-01T19:21:11 < Cracki> where "this and that" specifies edges (connections) from function to pin. you'd logically have a huge connection matrix where any function could go to any pin, but you write constraints to say what can be and what CAN NOT be
2019-06-01T19:21:53 < Cracki> traffic light: you can't just say "red or yellow or green", you have to say "(red and not yellow and not green) or (not red and yellow and not green) or (...)"
2019-06-01T19:27:00 < Cracki> for those expressions, it's useful to have utility functions that generate them from a concise description (this variable is true, all others are false; exactly one of these is true, rest are false; ...)
2019-06-01T19:28:26 < mawk> could say red xor yellow xor green
2019-06-01T19:29:56 < Cracki> hmm not quite
2019-06-01T19:30:17 < Cracki> hm, you're right!
2019-06-01T19:30:37 < Cracki> or not. r^g^b is true for r=g=b=1
2019-06-01T19:30:40 < Cracki> that's bad
2019-06-01T19:30:55 < mawk> r^g^b = (r^g)^b
2019-06-01T19:30:56 < Cracki> anyway, just write down terms, no need to be smart about it
2019-06-01T19:31:00 < mawk> it's associative anyway
2019-06-01T19:31:02 < mawk> yeah
2019-06-01T19:31:15 < mawk> but yeah it doesn't quite work
2019-06-01T19:31:20 < mawk> only for two terms
2019-06-01T19:31:26 < Rickta59> https://sahandsaba.com/understanding-sat-by-implementing-a-simple-sat-solver-in-python.html
2019-06-01T19:31:34 < Cracki> DO be smart about not writing assembly. make utility functions to keep the "scripture" manageable
2019-06-01T19:31:44 < mawk> understanding-sat-by-implementing-a-slow-sat-solver-in-python.html
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2019-06-01T19:32:23 < Cracki> z3 has a lispy frontend but it has python bindings as well. https://rise4fun.com/z3/tutorial
2019-06-01T19:34:08 < Rickta59> probably 10 lines of forth can figure this out :)
2019-06-01T19:35:15 < Cracki> throwing a sat solver at it is probably slight overkill. the dependency graph is (almost) a tree, starting from the mux configuration
2019-06-01T19:35:25 < BrainDamage> cryptominisat is pretty coold to use
2019-06-01T19:38:33 < Cracki> here's their stuff in python https://theory.stanford.edu/~nikolaj/programmingz3.html
2019-06-01T19:39:18 < decimad> you've given me much to dig through already, thank you ;)
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2019-06-01T19:40:19 < decimad> I'm a bit skeptical if abstracting the problem so much as to be an input to these algorithms is the way to go, but I will see ;)
2019-06-01T19:41:27 < decimad> funny that I also found the cassowary algorithm to be interesting, this all seems inter-related ;)
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2019-06-01T19:47:46 < decimad> come to mind that I actually already wrote a c++11 contexpr brute forcer for the stm32 clock net ;)
2019-06-01T19:47:59 < decimad> that's of course much simpler
2019-06-01T19:48:08 < decimad> trivial, but still ;)
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2019-06-01T20:07:32 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/8IxXwDx
2019-06-01T20:18:13 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-06-01T20:18:49 < Steffanx> Have a special nozzle for the carbon bitmask ?
2019-06-01T20:19:00 < bitmask> nah, I have plenty to spare
2019-06-01T20:20:02 < bitmask> if it seems to be an issue I'll order one, but the website says its not too much more abrasive
2019-06-01T20:20:09 < Steffanx> Ah ok
2019-06-01T20:20:31 < Steffanx> I've seen pics of only 250gr prints, but not sure how much marketing was involved 
2019-06-01T20:20:50 < Steffanx> 250 gram filament and significant wear that is
2019-06-01T20:20:59 < Steffanx> With standard brass nozzles
2019-06-01T20:21:08 < bitmask> interesting, I guess I'll have to keep an eye on it
2019-06-01T20:21:31 < Steffanx> https://makezine.com/2015/09/11/carbon-fiber-filament-ruins-nozzles/
2019-06-01T20:21:32 < bitmask> but I do have like 8 spare nozzles just in 0.4mm and another 8 of various sizes
2019-06-01T20:22:44 < boddax> bitmask planning to print a Pagani car with carb filament ? :))
2019-06-01T20:22:52 < Steffanx> Hows your IKEA enclosure doing bit?
2019-06-01T20:23:01 < bitmask> heh sure boddax 
2019-06-01T20:23:08 < bitmask> its not enclosed but its great
2019-06-01T20:23:37 < bitmask> I gotta print some holders to hang tools, its getting sloppy
2019-06-01T20:25:26 < zyp> sup?
2019-06-01T20:26:00 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/lZjPhLd.png
2019-06-01T20:26:27 < boddax> your print?
2019-06-01T20:27:04 < bitmask> whachu mean? its my printer, I didnt design what I'm printing though, I just use it for testing new filament :)
2019-06-01T20:27:16 < bitmask> vase mode so it doesnt use much filament
2019-06-01T20:27:42 < boddax> nice body ..your printer
2019-06-01T20:28:22 < boddax> marlin firmware?
2019-06-01T20:28:34 < Steffanx> Sky zyp
2019-06-01T20:28:38 < zyp> aww
2019-06-01T20:28:56 < Steffanx> Want a cat pic?
2019-06-01T20:29:09 < zyp> want a house pic? :p
2019-06-01T20:29:40 < zyp> been building shelves today: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/zoXh6.jpg
2019-06-01T20:30:58 < Steffanx> ,:)
2019-06-01T20:31:05 < bitmask> boddax nah I'm using klipper
2019-06-01T20:31:10 < bitmask> and octoprint
2019-06-01T20:31:52 < Steffanx> Does your OCD survive the 3 screw spacing, zyp? :P
2019-06-01T20:34:21 < zyp> it's not gonna be very visible once the plates come on :p
2019-06-01T20:34:56 < zyp> shit's pretty solid
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2019-06-01T20:35:26 < zyp> I can hang from the middle of the beam no problem
2019-06-01T20:35:32 < Steffanx> And the cat pic http://imgur.com/a/vbrcEaa
2019-06-01T20:35:45 < zyp> and the plates that's going on top are 27mm thick
2019-06-01T20:36:01 < Steffanx> Heh. Did your wife also ask you to build some stairs/ladder?
2019-06-01T20:36:02 < zyp> shit's gonna handle a couple hundred kilos no problem
2019-06-01T20:36:39 < zyp> nah, but we already got a step stool nearby
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2019-06-01T20:47:08 < bitmask> havent printed in petg in a while, I should tune it later, hate that part
2019-06-01T20:47:22 < bitmask> but now that most of what I have is petg, I guess its worth it
2019-06-01T20:54:13 < zyp> petg is so much nicer
2019-06-01T20:55:10 < zyp> a bit harder to print though
2019-06-01T20:58:38 < bitmask> this is my first time trying non translucent petg, which I think I'll like a lot more
2019-06-01T20:58:54 < bitmask> translucent is just tough to look real nice when you are dealing with layer lines
2019-06-01T20:59:34 < bitmask> the print is going nice right now though, looks great
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2019-06-01T21:23:32 < boddax> you make plate adjustment all the time before any print bitmask ?
2019-06-01T21:24:09 < bitmask> no, I use auto leveling so I just do manual leveling once in a while
2019-06-01T21:25:40 < boddax> i use autoleveling with pcb milling ..how works with 3d printer?
2019-06-01T21:26:06 < boddax> touch plate contact?
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2019-06-01T21:26:38 < bitmask> there are different options, some people use capacitive sensors, some use BL Touch (which is what I use)
2019-06-01T21:28:17 < boddax> interesting klipper has also stm32 port ..what hw you using?
2019-06-01T21:28:40 < bitmask> just the board that came with my ANet printer
2019-06-01T21:28:56 < bitmask> I kinda want to build a new printer but this one is working fine
2019-06-01T21:30:26 < boddax> yah no need ..just wish bigger print area
2019-06-01T21:31:55 < bitmask> I wouldnt mind upgrading to 400 step motors, but if I do that then I might as well get a new 32 bit board and some TMC drivers, and then get an alu extrusion frame with mgn12 rails :P
2019-06-01T21:32:14 < bitmask> I cant seem to just ugprade one thing so I"ll just wait until I want to build a new printer
2019-06-01T21:32:52 < boddax> to build yourself need a pecision tools 
2019-06-01T21:33:23 < boddax> milling machine , lathe etc.. you have those tools?
2019-06-01T21:40:45 < bitmask> not yet, but I dont think a 3d printer needs to be that precise
2019-06-01T21:55:22 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/XoNz81Z.png
2019-06-01T21:55:36 < bitmask> silky pla on left, pearly petg on right
2019-06-01T21:56:35 < boddax> silky look better
2019-06-01T21:57:05 < boddax> more real
2019-06-01T22:00:40 < mawk> I found an homonym of me http://www.mawkbaby.com/
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2019-06-01T23:23:00 < bitmask> man this dark cherry red is real nice
2019-06-01T23:23:07 < bitmask> printing carbon fiber now
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2019-06-01T23:35:44 < mawk> I'm eating japanese
2019-06-01T23:35:53 < mawk> beef cheese sticks may be my favorite food
2019-06-01T23:35:59 < mawk> alongside with fish eggs
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2019-06-01T23:50:52 < Cracki> bitmask, is that carbon fiber for the look or does it actually contain fibers long enough to increase tensile strength?
2019-06-01T23:51:09 < bitmask> says it uses milled CF
2019-06-01T23:51:42 < bitmask> says increased rigidity and strength
2019-06-01T23:51:50 < Cracki> that's basically dust
2019-06-01T23:52:02 < bitmask> Engineering grade PETG resin with USA made premium MILLED carbon fiber NOT powder or dust.
2019-06-01T23:52:07 < Cracki> unless it's a high percentage, and the plastic acts as a glue
2019-06-01T23:52:38 < Cracki> that's the diff between confetti and shredded paper
2019-06-01T23:52:55 < Cracki> I'm googling right now about properties
2019-06-01T23:53:16 < bitmask> its gonna depend on mfgr too, when its done printing i'll at least be able to test this print against others
2019-06-01T23:53:57 < bitmask> apparently a lot of cheapo ones become brittle when they add cf
2019-06-01T23:53:59 < Cracki> I see some amazing promises... but only for *continuous* fiber
2019-06-01T23:54:02 < Cracki> https://markforged.com/materials/carbon-fiber/
2019-06-01T23:54:26 < Cracki> if you chop that up, which is wha tmilling does, it approaches plain petg rapidly
2019-06-01T23:54:29 < bitmask> maybe I'll make a quick test jig
2019-06-01T23:54:34 < bitmask> just to see
2019-06-01T23:55:06 < bitmask> my assumption was that it would be less flexible which is a problem with petg
2019-06-01T23:55:17 < Cracki> petg is too flexible?
2019-06-01T23:55:30 < bitmask> so if its even a bit less flexible thats a win
2019-06-01T23:55:33 < Cracki> I'm sure carbon fiber pieces are gonna help make it more rigid
2019-06-01T23:55:33 < bitmask> depends what you want, it can be
2019-06-01T23:56:08 < Cracki> the stuff I would want filament for is exactly that, strong rigid parts
2019-06-01T23:56:10 < bitmask> its not as flexible as abs (im assuming, never printed abs) but petg is a lot more flexible than pla
2019-06-01T23:56:25 < Cracki> yeh, pla just snaps
2019-06-01T23:56:39 < bitmask> so if I could have a slightly more rigid petg then thats what I'm looking for
2019-06-01T23:57:57 < bitmask> if its milled does that mean its cf+resin?
2019-06-01T23:58:07 < bitmask> and not just cf strands
2019-06-01T23:58:08 < Cracki> good q
2019-06-01T23:59:01 < Cracki> all3dp talks about "chopped" fibers, which is what I'd expect they do
2019-06-01T23:59:22 < bitmask> i'll ask the manufacturer, hes a regular in an irc channel
2019-06-01T23:59:32 < bitmask> not active now though
--- Day changed Sun Jun 02 2019
2019-06-02T00:00:38 < Cracki> atomicfilament, says google to your quote
2019-06-02T00:00:47 < bitmask> yea
2019-06-02T00:01:15 < bitmask> I like his stuff, its all ive ever really used though
2019-06-02T00:01:30 < bitmask> except for some cheap zyltech stuff at $12 a kg
2019-06-02T00:01:47 < bitmask> its expensive though
2019-06-02T00:02:02 < bitmask> at least you get 12% off 4 or more rolls
2019-06-02T00:03:17 < Cracki> that drum there is 3.5 kg for 180 bucks, so ~50/kg. not too bad. I remember times when ordinary PLA was 30/kg
2019-06-02T00:03:50 < Cracki> I doubt I'd ever have enough need of 3.5 kg of that stuff :P
2019-06-02T00:04:06 < bitmask> what, is that the CF?
2019-06-02T00:04:19 < Cracki> yes
2019-06-02T00:04:28 < Cracki> https://atomicfilament.com/products/3-5kg-carbon-fiber-extreme-black-petg
2019-06-02T00:04:29 < bitmask> guess no price break for the 3.5kg rolls, the 1kg was $50 and then I got the 12% off
2019-06-02T00:05:14 < Cracki> they slashed the 1kg one in half already, from 100 bucks. must be quite new to be in the price finding phase still
2019-06-02T00:06:41 < bitmask> I think thats just a marketing ploy, its been the lower price for as long as Ive been ordering
2019-06-02T00:07:00 < Cracki> might still be ahead of the minimum point in price, after nobody wants it and they have to lower, and before everyone wants it because they lowered it enough to get momentum
2019-06-02T00:07:07 < Cracki> hmhm
2019-06-02T00:07:26 < Cracki> haha they sell glue sticks for 20 bucks a piece
2019-06-02T00:07:55 < bitmask> never tried the stuff but it seemed to be fairly popular
2019-06-02T00:07:57 < Cracki> comes in an artisan-crafted cardboard box
2019-06-02T00:08:07 < bitmask> its not his brand, probably the same price everywhere
2019-06-02T00:08:23 < Cracki> just amazed by what people get away with rebranding
2019-06-02T00:08:30 < Cracki> says "magigoo" on it
2019-06-02T00:08:51 < bitmask> yea thats the popular brand
2019-06-02T00:09:27 < Cracki> might be pritt or scotch or uhu or 3m... :P
2019-06-02T00:11:18 < bitmask> carbon fiber bust bust just about done
2019-06-02T00:13:17 < Steffanx> Better show us your first print
2019-06-02T00:16:25 < bitmask> heh the CF seems exactly the same as the other vase mode prints
2019-06-02T00:16:33 < bitmask> maybe thats not a good test for it
2019-06-02T00:19:42 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/HldVggN.png
2019-06-02T00:19:46 < bitmask> the 4 in the middle are the new filaments
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2019-06-02T00:38:29 < Cracki> nice detail on the nipples
2019-06-02T00:39:28 < Cracki> the moires are a testament to the rigidity of that printer
2019-06-02T00:45:09 < karlp> how so?
2019-06-02T00:45:23 < karlp> got fine lines, get moires. how's the rigidity of the printer affect that?
2019-06-02T00:45:47 < jadew> what nipples?
2019-06-02T00:46:05 < karlp> bitmask | https://i.imgur.com/HldVggN.png
2019-06-02T00:46:48 < jadew> doesn't look like a waste of time at all
2019-06-02T00:47:00 < karlp> noone: ....
2019-06-02T00:47:07 < karlp> jadew: doesn't look like a waste of time at all.
2019-06-02T00:47:54 < karlp> heh, cube idea is a 700meg download.
2019-06-02T00:47:56 < karlp> wheee
2019-06-02T00:48:49 < jadew> bitmask, now make one with a hole and double walls and fill it with silicone
2019-06-02T00:49:14 < jadew> the rubbery kind
2019-06-02T00:49:44 < bitmask> its not a waste of time, they are for testing new filament
2019-06-02T00:52:16 < jadew> if the tits are too saggy, it's shit filament?
2019-06-02T00:52:36 < karlp> fucking st. offers an "RPM" installer for cuebide, it's _actually_ a 755meg shell script that asks for root.
2019-06-02T00:52:51 < karlp> just... let people download the fucking rpm.
2019-06-02T00:52:54 < bitmask> not testing like that, quit bitching, its nice to see how a filament looks when its printed, seeing it on a roll isn't easy
2019-06-02T00:52:57 < karlp> why did you make that more complicated.
2019-06-02T00:53:29 < jadew> bitmask, not bitching, I like it
2019-06-02T00:53:33 < bitmask> this is vase mode so it doesnt use much filament and prints quick
2019-06-02T00:53:49 < bitmask> and curves show how the light reflects
2019-06-02T00:54:00 < bitmask> so its a good model to use, and boobs
2019-06-02T00:54:36 < karlp> heh, the "rpm" download includes test for solaris.
2019-06-02T00:54:42 < bitmask> time for work, gotta deliver some food
2019-06-02T00:54:48 < bitmask> maybe I should shower first
2019-06-02T00:55:29 < jadew> karlp, maybe they needed that to make it more idiot proof?
2019-06-02T00:56:00 < karlp> no, it's shit they inherited form makeself.io
2019-06-02T00:56:11 < karlp> still moronic.  
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2019-06-02T01:05:18 < karlp> sh ../st-stm32cubeide_1.0.0_2872_20190423_2022_amd64.sh --noexec --keep && tar -xf st-stm32cubeide_1.0.0_2872_20190423_2022_amd64.tar.gz
2019-06-02T01:05:23 < karlp> avoid all the bullshit....
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2019-06-02T02:37:56 < Thorn> what awg is this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32384516537.html
2019-06-02T02:39:08 < zyp> Steffanx, forgot to show you the after pic: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/I00gq.jpg
2019-06-02T02:42:12 < zyp> Thorn, what are you doing with ribbon cable that makes you care about awg?
2019-06-02T02:42:40 < Thorn> terminating it for example
2019-06-02T02:42:47 < Thorn> terminals specify min/max awg
2019-06-02T02:43:02 < zyp> oh, do they come in several variants for the same pitch?
2019-06-02T02:43:19 < zyp> or is that just a sanity thing?
2019-06-02T02:43:43 < Thorn> mostly a sanity check yes
2019-06-02T02:44:01 < zyp> I'd expect any ribbon cable to fit any connectors with the right fit
2019-06-02T02:44:24 < zyp> unless you buy super shitty chinesium where they've saved too much on the metal :p
2019-06-02T02:44:37 < zyp> s/right fit/right pitch/
2019-06-02T02:44:41 < Thorn> I'm talking crimp terminals like jst, dupont etc.
2019-06-02T02:44:54 < zyp> oh, not IDC?
2019-06-02T02:45:36 < Thorn> although I double the copper will be too thick for those lol, and the smallest allowed diameter is quite small
2019-06-02T02:46:12 < Thorn> *doubt
2019-06-02T03:04:19 < Cracki> my money's on awg 42 because that's finer than anyone can use
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2019-06-02T03:15:14 < Cracki> for 1.27mm ribbon I see awg 26 and 28, so worst case it might be awg 30. got a specific jst?
2019-06-02T03:17:56 < Cracki> some table on wikipedia says it's certainly in range (30-22) for XH
2019-06-02T03:44:23 < Thorn> sounds sane
2019-06-02T03:44:40 < Thorn> "1 pin cable" lol
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2019-06-02T04:27:25 < decimad> gnarf... visualgdb is not the revelation either :(
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2019-06-02T05:19:25 < Kerr-A> https://i.imgur.com/Wnhe1jt.png -> Refernce manual typo that some of you may find entertaining
2019-06-02T05:21:45 < jly> reminds me of an Asian lecturer I once had
2019-06-02T05:21:47 < jly> shit left
2019-06-02T05:21:50 < jly> shit right
2019-06-02T05:21:50 < jly> .
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2019-06-02T05:23:53 < Kerr-A> One thing or another always annoyed me about the various libraries available for STM32 so I'm like, just writing my own stuff. RCC and basic GPIO use was easy enough... Alternate function mapping/getting USART working is proving to be more time consuming :s
2019-06-02T05:25:59 < Cracki> embrace the hal
2019-06-02T05:26:34 < rajkosto> do not
2019-06-02T05:26:42 < rajkosto> use stdperiph in cmsis instead
2019-06-02T05:27:07 < Cracki> unless you can convince a court of law that you should walk for killing the author of an existing library, NIH is not justified
2019-06-02T05:27:11 < Kerr-A> HAL pissed me off because to use it you basically have to read the reference manual anyway
2019-06-02T05:27:30 < Cracki> so you wanna get away with not reading RMs?
2019-06-02T05:27:43 < Kerr-A> And then HAL changes names from the reference manual
2019-06-02T05:27:44 < Cracki> or do you want the most painless library, given you've read the RM
2019-06-02T05:27:50 < Cracki> ah yes, good point
2019-06-02T05:27:58 < Cracki> HAL docs...
2019-06-02T05:28:08 < rajkosto> thats why you dont use hal
2019-06-02T05:28:21 < Kerr-A> So like, You have to basically read the HAL source AND the reference manual to do anything
2019-06-02T05:28:28 < rajkosto> stdperiph is just some functions that give names to registers and parameters
2019-06-02T05:29:52 < Kerr-A> I'm just like, setting up structs that directly map the names of the registers and their bits exactly as seen in the RM so I can be like RCC->CR.PLLON = 1;
2019-06-02T05:30:04 < Cracki> they're behind the times. a PDF containing all the api doc is so outdated.
2019-06-02T05:31:15 < Kerr-A> Even the examples provided by ST just give up on using HAL and write to register addresses directly at some point
2019-06-02T05:54:16 < decimad> I would not base my decisions on ST sources ;)
2019-06-02T05:58:36 < decimad> and btw, aren't bitfields problematic?
2019-06-02T05:59:46 < Kerr-A> Some have warned me that they aren't guarenteed by the standard, however I've tested and using packed structs/bitfields produces exactly the same assembly as using bitmasks
2019-06-02T06:00:03 < rajkosto> you gotta do bitfields in reverse on little endian systems
2019-06-02T06:00:03 < Kerr-A> So yeah I'm not guarenteed it will work on every compiler
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2019-06-02T06:04:15 < Kerr-A> Everything lines up as I'm doing it now. I do have to put in the bits the opposite direction they are listed in the datasheet
2019-06-02T06:04:16 < Kerr-A> https://pastebin.com/j0Pvq0Vk
2019-06-02T06:04:25 < decimad> also hard to set multiple fields at once... given the registers are usually volatile the compiler can't merge writes I suppose?
2019-06-02T06:04:29 < Kerr-A> ^what I'm doing right now.
2019-06-02T06:04:49 < Kerr-A> I can cast if I need to hit the entire register
2019-06-02T06:06:14 < Kerr-A> But I generally don't, because it's more clear (to me) what's being done when you see what bits are being changed by name rather than RCC_CR = 0xCF0F; or whatever
2019-06-02T06:06:28 < rajkosto> you wouldnt do 0xCF0F
2019-06-02T06:06:37 < rajkosto> you would define constants or an enum for the bits you are setting
2019-06-02T06:06:39 < rajkosto> and OR them together
2019-06-02T06:07:06 < rajkosto> RCC->CR |= PLL_EN; is pretty self explanatory
2019-06-02T06:07:18 < rajkosto> and can set multiple bits at once when its required
2019-06-02T06:10:17 < Kerr-A> Well maybe I've been seeing crappy examples of how to program these things then
2019-06-02T06:15:19 < Kerr-A> oscinitstruct.PLL.PLLState    = RCC_PLL_ON;
2019-06-02T06:15:31 < Kerr-A> Is part of how HAL would do that :s
2019-06-02T06:15:40 < rajkosto> stop readin hal
2019-06-02T06:15:53 < Kerr-A> What do you recommend then
2019-06-02T06:15:54 < rajkosto> stdperiph is much more basic
2019-06-02T06:15:57 < rajkosto> from cmsis libs
2019-06-02T06:16:37 < rajkosto> while HAL is some weird failed bloated abstraction stdperiph is just defines and functions that write to registers with some ifs in them
2019-06-02T06:24:43 < mawk> you have LL also
2019-06-02T06:24:47 < mawk> alongside HAL
2019-06-02T06:24:52 < rajkosto> thers also libopencm3
2019-06-02T06:25:10 < mawk> I mean LL is shipped with HAL in st firmware packages
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2019-06-02T07:07:21 < dongs> man.
2019-06-02T07:07:37 < dongs> trying to do anything in altifuck that isnt 90" with parts palcement is fucking waste of time
2019-06-02T07:07:46 < dongs> rooms are disgusting at 30" rotation
2019-06-02T07:08:46 < rajkosto> why 30
2019-06-02T07:08:48 < rajkosto> 45 is fine
2019-06-02T07:08:59 < dongs> i have shit in a circle.
2019-06-02T07:09:11 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/GsU0Jpp.png it actaully thinks all those parts are violating...
2019-06-02T07:09:14 < dongs> for fuck knows what reasons
2019-06-02T07:09:19 < dongs> clearance and out of room bounds
2019-06-02T07:09:21 < dongs> fucking lol
2019-06-02T07:12:53 < boddax> review drc settings to decrease or disable it
2019-06-02T07:12:59 < dongs> ???????????????????????????
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2019-06-02T07:13:08 < dongs> there's no fucking violation there
2019-06-02T07:13:24 < dongs> its "violating" it because its looking at the bounding box 
2019-06-02T07:13:27 < dongs> which isnt even rotated
2019-06-02T07:13:32 < rajkosto> yes
2019-06-02T07:14:15 < dongs> tho i think i got an idea, maybe if I assugn a dummy clear 3D model to it, it should take that as bb instead
2019-06-02T07:15:07 < decimad> try kicad ;)
2019-06-02T07:15:30 < dongs> i'd rather actually get work done
2019-06-02T07:15:40 < boddax> dual layer? swap some component to other side
2019-06-02T07:16:19 < rajkosto> both sides are angled with a circle...
2019-06-02T07:16:39 < dongs> yep that fixed it
2019-06-02T07:16:47 < rajkosto> thats what altium gets for computing AABB instead of OBB
2019-06-02T07:17:15 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/YyulVWA.png < solved
2019-06-02T07:17:33 < boddax> kicad actually works well , then very simple but powerful also sprint-layout ver.6
2019-06-02T07:19:28 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/iF4D0jx.png this bug still there, lol
2019-06-02T07:19:49 < dongs> and if you try resizing by dragging those drag points
2019-06-02T07:19:54 < dongs> it turns rectangle into parallelogram
2019-06-02T07:19:58 < decimad> I cannot believe that altium wouldn't support OBs for erc...
2019-06-02T07:20:09 < dongs> what?
2019-06-02T07:20:18 < dongs> it does, but it needs an actual 3D body to make it work
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2019-06-02T07:20:25 < dongs> which makes sense
2019-06-02T07:20:32 < dongs> since its an actual physical clerance drc
2019-06-02T07:21:45 < decimad> so where's the problem?
2019-06-02T07:22:09 < rajkosto> not using 3d models in footprint makes clearance weird
2019-06-02T07:22:14 < dongs> ^
2019-06-02T07:22:22 < rajkosto> fixed a bunch just placing a box 3d model
2019-06-02T07:22:26 < rajkosto> instead of having nothing
2019-06-02T07:22:35 < rajkosto> or having stuff in keepout layer
2019-06-02T07:22:42 < dongs> rajkosto: if you go to that dialog i pasted earlier
2019-06-02T07:22:46 < dongs> you can hide the box completely
2019-06-02T07:22:54 < rajkosto> you can just choose the box and hide it
2019-06-02T07:22:54 < dongs> then its there but doesnt shit up 3d view
2019-06-02T07:23:08 < dongs> oh is it? ok well wahtever
2019-06-02T07:23:35 < rajkosto> the real question is where the hell is my bag of 1000 smd buttons
2019-06-02T07:23:58 < dongs> the alps skqgabe010 clone?
2019-06-02T07:24:12 < dongs> https://www.alps.com/prod/info/J/image/Tact/SurfaceMount/SKQG/SKQGABE010.jpg best button
2019-06-02T07:24:22 < rajkosto> yes
2019-06-02T07:24:28 < rajkosto> varying heights of the gold button too
2019-06-02T07:24:31 < rajkosto> thats why 1000
2019-06-02T07:24:41 < dongs> nice, teh fuck you gonna do with them?
2019-06-02T07:24:48 < rajkosto> nothing
2019-06-02T07:24:50 < rajkosto> since i dont know where they are
2019-06-02T07:24:58 < dongs> yes, but hwat was your original plan
2019-06-02T07:25:07 < rajkosto> fix car keyfobs obviously
2019-06-02T07:25:29 < rajkosto> its not 1000 its like 500, 100 of each height
2019-06-02T07:25:37 < rajkosto> just in case
2019-06-02T07:27:15 < dongs> i dont think ive ever owned a keyfob that broke during the lifetime of the car
2019-06-02T07:27:21 < dongs> is that really a common problem
2019-06-02T07:28:15 < rajkosto> dunno had to do it to mine
2019-06-02T07:28:21 < rajkosto> the button has some green shit in it to make it mushy
2019-06-02T07:28:24 < rajkosto> and eventually that makes it too mushy
2019-06-02T07:28:28 < rajkosto> and it doesnt press anymore
2019-06-02T07:36:28 < rajkosto> found em
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2019-06-02T07:38:24 < rajkosto> why are some in bag and some in cut reel though https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-06-02_06-38-13_KBYQTmO69.jpg
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2019-06-02T09:29:35 < rajkosto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_dyOohSQ0&feature=youtu.be neat
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2019-06-02T10:16:20 < dongs> the fuck is he doing?
2019-06-02T10:16:22 < dongs> reballing it?
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2019-06-02T10:29:06 < boddax> have 3x of plan_block_t *....); inside same .h header give me error
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2019-06-02T11:18:58 < dongs> ok real nice
2019-06-02T11:19:08 < dongs> pads have per-pad thermal relief configuration....
2019-06-02T11:19:13 < dongs> but only for non-plane layers
2019-06-02T11:19:31 < dongs> plane ones i can't assign a custom per-pad thermal relief and can only do global..
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2019-06-02T12:54:10 < zyp> dongs, why aren't you making a custom grid area rotated 30 degrees, instead of trying to fit shit 30 degrees rotated on the main grid?
2019-06-02T12:56:04 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ISnRs.png <- kinda like this shit
2019-06-02T12:58:06 < boddax> nice whats that fpga ?
2019-06-02T12:59:25 < boddax> need paired traces
2019-06-02T12:59:58 < zyp> hmm, IIRC it's a spartan 3a
2019-06-02T13:01:12 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/v0OjW.JPG <- plugs into the fsmc socket on my f4 devboard
2019-06-02T13:01:24 < zyp> been some years since I dicked around with that
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2019-06-02T13:09:44 < boddax> planning to buy the cyclone 5 nano de to emulating some platforms
2019-06-02T13:10:20 < boddax> bit expensive 115 euro
2019-06-02T13:12:15 < zyp> this? https://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=167&No=941
2019-06-02T13:14:52 < boddax> yes
2019-06-02T13:15:21 < zyp> looks like a good deal to me
2019-06-02T13:15:51 < boddax> to put mister development
2019-06-02T13:17:05 < zyp> almost tempted to get one now, just don't have any immediate need :)
2019-06-02T13:18:16 < boddax> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jb8YPXc8DA
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2019-06-02T13:19:13 < boddax> can emulate amiga,oldmac,nes etc
2019-06-02T13:22:20 < boddax> even hw expansion projects
2019-06-02T13:26:12 < boddax> there no many public examples and projects for xlinx platform 
2019-06-02T13:27:36 < boddax> both of them xilinx and altera have no pins 5v tolerant
2019-06-02T13:33:39 < boddax> how to add option in the project settings of MCU compiler with cubeide?..look read only field or locked
2019-06-02T13:36:23 < Steffanx> Will it end up next to your zynq board zyp :P
2019-06-02T13:40:11 < Steffanx> Is parallella still alive?
2019-06-02T13:49:00 < boddax> lpt port
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2019-06-02T14:48:42 < catphish> that was a valuable lesson, using nucleo as st-link, seeing really weird behaviour, realised the onboard stm32 was competing with the other stm32
2019-06-02T14:49:00 < catphish> erased the onboard stm32 and all is well :)
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2019-06-02T15:08:59 < boddax> ?
2019-06-02T15:39:00 < karlp> you disconnected the jumpers for it right?
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2019-06-02T16:14:12 < dongs> isnt de0-nano ancient as fuck
2019-06-02T16:14:37 < dongs> i have its box propping up my riglol power supply on my bench
2019-06-02T16:14:48 < dongs> prolyl best use it had in years
2019-06-02T16:21:33 < dongs> uh zyp where was this, i thik i used that once and forgot
2019-06-02T16:22:27 < dongs> ah right
2019-06-02T16:22:30 < dongs> its in teh fucking sidebar now
2019-06-02T16:22:34 < dongs> not discoverable any other way
2019-06-02T16:22:36 < dongs> fucking garbage
2019-06-02T16:25:17 < decimad> anybody worked with the combination of vs code + cortex-debug extension + stm microcontroller? I can't quite get it working... and it doesn't seem to support breakpoints in assembly?
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2019-06-02T16:35:47 < Rickta59> yeah that is broken
2019-06-02T16:35:56 < rmaw> anyone used USART in single wire half duplex mode
2019-06-02T16:35:56 < Rickta59> assuming you are using linux 
2019-06-02T16:36:46 < rmaw> datasheet for this F1 says "In single-wire half-duplex mode, the TX and RX pins are connected internally." "As soon as HDSEL is written to 1: RX is no longer used,"
2019-06-02T16:37:10 < rmaw> if they are connected internally, does that mean that either the RX or TX pins can be used
2019-06-02T16:37:25 < rmaw> but then goes onto say RX is no longer used, but does that mean the RX pin ?
2019-06-02T16:38:07 < Rickta59> i gave up on vscode debugging and just launch command line arm-none-eabi-gdb
2019-06-02T16:38:57 < Rickta59> https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode-cpptools/issues/807
2019-06-02T16:39:57 < dongs> rmaw: ive used it in smartcard mode, which is similar? i guess
2019-06-02T16:40:49 < dongs> rmaw: no, you need to use a specific pin. lemme look at my schematic
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2019-06-02T16:42:58 < rmaw> thanks, think its tx pin
2019-06-02T16:43:11 < rmaw> on the scope with something getting output I see the same on both pins
2019-06-02T16:45:39 < dongs> tryin to find that board.. but yeah tx sounds about right, it should be same for smartcard
2019-06-02T16:45:50 < dongs> maybe check smartcard section it might be more specific what it does wiht the rx/tx
2019-06-02T16:46:09 < dongs> anyawy, for sure cannot use "any" pin, internally connected on F1 means some internal thing on the uart core, not actual pins.
2019-06-02T16:46:22 < dongs> on F3/newgpio thing that allows rx/tx swapping on uart, there you can use anypin.
2019-06-02T16:47:36 < decimad> Rickta59: Hrmm, this is unfortunate... Although I'm on windows, so it seems I must be doing something wrong... The same cmake built executable debugs fine with visualgdb... But that one feels sluggish updating registers and resuming somehow...
2019-06-02T16:49:26 < Rickta59> i think gdb works best from the command line
2019-06-02T16:49:31 < dongs> rmaw: yep, its TX pin. confirmed on my schematic from a working production board.
2019-06-02T16:49:33 < Rickta59> not sluggish
2019-06-02T16:50:03 < Rickta59> if you use the layout split you get 90% of what ide debuggers provide
2019-06-02T16:50:15 < dongs> why would anyone debug in VSJEWCODE
2019-06-02T16:50:25 < dongs> ozone is absolutely the best and fastest cortex-m debugger
2019-06-02T16:51:32 < dongs> https://www.segger.com/products/development-tools/ozone-j-link-debugger/
2019-06-02T16:52:03 < Rickta59> ozone only works on windows no?
2019-06-02T16:56:43 < rmaw> dongs, thanks
2019-06-02T17:00:05 < decimad> I only have j-link edu, I guess that won't work, right? :)
2019-06-02T17:02:40 < Steffanx> i think it would
2019-06-02T17:03:36 < decimad> well, it's trial only... will that expire?
2019-06-02T17:04:21 < Steffanx> ozone trial?
2019-06-02T17:05:26 < decimad> yeah... will it stop to work after I trialed too often? :)
2019-06-02T17:05:37 < Steffanx> idk where you read its some trial sw
2019-06-02T17:06:13 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/a/Z3bWjfu what i read decimad
2019-06-02T17:06:22 < Steffanx> ah
2019-06-02T17:06:23 < Steffanx> like that
2019-06-02T17:06:25 < Steffanx> evaltuate :P
2019-06-02T17:06:40 < Steffanx> that makes more sense
2019-06-02T17:07:08 < Steffanx> You can always get a 20 dollar jlink clone if you dont want to see the message al the time :P
2019-06-02T17:11:17 < decimad> well, that feels very responsive... now I'm disconnected from my source tree though :(
2019-06-02T17:11:38 < decimad> same as with lauterbach stuff at work :)
2019-06-02T17:16:41 < englishman> dongs: my lulvo keyfob had 2 vias in it go bad
2019-06-02T17:16:52 < englishman> every other one has been fine
2019-06-02T17:24:13 < englishman> "only works on windows" is a feature not a bug
2019-06-02T17:25:23 < Steffanx> Yeah, especially when Rickta59 is wrong.
2019-06-02T17:25:35 < Steffanx> It's lunix and macos compatible.
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2019-06-02T17:50:17 < Rickta59> thanks didn't know that .. tried it and it starts but laughs at my lack of j-link probe
2019-06-02T17:51:24 < Rickta59> so does that work with the $13 j-link edu mini?
2019-06-02T17:51:28 < Rickta59> $18
2019-06-02T17:51:51 < Rickta59> or is the minimum the $60 j-link edu 
2019-06-02T17:57:49 < Steffanx> idk about that
2019-06-02T18:03:00 < decimad> hrmm, I think if I can get the project to work with cmake inside eclipse, I will stick to that and use ozone in the difficult cases... visualgdb does not feel nice and vs code is not up to the task
2019-06-02T18:03:47 < decimad> vs code + ozone only would be workable as well though... 
2019-06-02T18:14:51 < bitmask> what bed temp do you guys use with PETG?
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2019-06-02T18:26:56 < decimad> right, that's it, vscode + ozone. Thanks for bringing this up!
2019-06-02T18:34:12 < englishman> pretty good combo
2019-06-02T18:34:56 < englishman> that j-dink edu mini looks great
2019-06-02T18:35:25 < englishman> why would anyone buy stlink clones
2019-06-02T18:38:43 < karlp> yeah, never understood that.
2019-06-02T18:39:04 < karlp> endless problems with them, and $3 vs $8-9 is just gnarly
2019-06-02T18:39:22 < karlp> buying a fucking pill board and a china stlink instead of just a nucleo
2019-06-02T18:39:34 < englishman> yeah
2019-06-02T18:39:43 < englishman> https://github.com/NiklasFauth/pcbtc
2019-06-02T18:39:44 < englishman> neato
2019-06-02T18:39:49 < englishman> what a good idea
2019-06-02T18:40:13 < mawk> price, and arduino lovers spreading the bluepill good news
2019-06-02T18:40:31 < Steffanx> englishman: idk how often the segger tools ask about it, but it promps you with some message about evaluation usage of the unlimited breakpoints and stuff
2019-06-02T18:40:43 < englishman> lol is it nagware
2019-06-02T18:40:53 < englishman> is segger stuck in 1995
2019-06-02T18:41:18 < mawk> winrar, mIRC
2019-06-02T18:42:25 < Steffanx> i use none of those.
2019-06-02T18:45:43 < qyx> winrar pls
2019-06-02T18:46:16 < Steffanx> i wonder who ever paid for winrar
2019-06-02T18:46:24 < Steffanx> and totalcommander.
2019-06-02T18:51:33 < bitmask> what is totalcommander?
2019-06-02T18:53:16 < Steffanx> https://www.ghisler.com/efaqgeneral.htm#whatisit
2019-06-02T18:54:53 < bitmask> i see
2019-06-02T18:59:45 < Mangy_Dog> Hi guys on the STM32f103 i have I have pins PC13,14,15 unpopulated as theyre mostly usless pins... BUT...Can i use one of them as a basic digital pin? So if i had a button, and a pullup resistor to 3v on the other side?
2019-06-02T19:01:15 < Thorn> Mangy_Dog: any GPIO can be used as GPIO
2019-06-02T19:01:29 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2019-06-02T19:01:42 < Mangy_Dog> i jusst knew theyre usually used for clock out
2019-06-02T19:01:50 < Mangy_Dog> but wanted to be sure its safe for this
2019-06-02T19:01:57 < Mangy_Dog> as ive run out of IO pins :D
2019-06-02T19:02:01 < Mangy_Dog> on this project
2019-06-02T19:03:59 < Thorn> just don't enable LSE
2019-06-02T19:04:09 < Thorn> also they're not 5V tolerant
2019-06-02T19:04:55 < Mangy_Dog> tahts ok
2019-06-02T19:05:06 < Mangy_Dog> its a 3V solder jumper with 10k resistor
2019-06-02T19:05:15 < Mangy_Dog> I just needed something to set debug mode
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2019-06-02T19:22:39 < Thorn> why no SVD in cube packs
2019-06-02T19:24:58 < mawk> there are svd in cube ide
2019-06-02T19:39:02 < boddax> some of them is 5v tolerant
2019-06-02T19:39:58 < boddax> https://wiki.stm32duino.com/images/a/ae/Bluepillpinout.gif
2019-06-02T19:50:22 < englishman> not the PC13-15 they are powered differently and are almost always the exceptions
2019-06-02T19:50:32 < englishman> there is a very low current source limit on them too
2019-06-02T19:51:26 < englishman> all of that info is in the datasheet/rm tho
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2019-06-02T19:59:09 < boddax> yes pc13-15 they are ..need level shifter to be used with ttl or ecl
2019-06-02T19:59:29 < Cracki> decimad, svd files are of interest to you. there are github repos with them, and ST has them hidden here and there too
2019-06-02T20:02:00 < Cracki> they don't explain function to pin mappings, but some information on peripherals mapped to address space
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2019-06-02T20:06:40 < Cracki> here's something that, I think, fucks around with pin mappings https://github.com/modm-io/modm-devices
2019-06-02T20:09:03 < Cracki> blog post on it https://blog.salkinium.com/modm-devices/
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2019-06-02T20:23:31 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMYfkOtYYlg
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2019-06-02T21:04:58 < boddax> lol fluid ascii art
2019-06-02T21:21:07 < boddax> RCC stand for?
2019-06-02T21:21:20 < zyp> Reset and Cock Control
2019-06-02T21:22:22 < boddax> a sort of viagra
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2019-06-02T21:33:04 < Steffanx> Interesting viagra you have in italy boddax
2019-06-02T21:34:39 < jpa-> one of our kid's books has a character named "Steffan of Potmead", is that you Steffanx?
2019-06-02T21:35:14 < zyp> haha
2019-06-02T21:35:29 < Steffanx> Could be. Since you all think dutch people are weed/pot addicts.
2019-06-02T21:35:38 < Steffanx> Must be a good book though
2019-06-02T21:36:25 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/IMG_20190602_213514.jpg
2019-06-02T21:36:27 < jpa-> he looks like this
2019-06-02T21:37:36 < bitmask> Steffanx likes to put ball bags in his mouth
2019-06-02T21:38:05 < jpa-> i knew it
2019-06-02T21:38:37 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2019-06-02T21:44:01 < Steffanx> hm
2019-06-02T21:48:34 < boddax> eheh Steffanx technoviagra
2019-06-02T21:49:27 < boddax> reset then ready to the next..
2019-06-02T21:53:50 < Steffanx> whats the name of the book jpa-?
2019-06-02T21:57:15 < jpa-> https://otava.fi/kirjat/9789511218982/
2019-06-02T21:59:31 < boddax> dutch meaning Netherlands?
2019-06-02T22:05:32 < qyx> lul jpa- 
2019-06-02T22:10:36 < Steffanx> dutch meaning the citizens in dutchland aka the netherlands, boddax
2019-06-02T22:10:57 < Steffanx> *of
2019-06-02T22:22:05 < qyx> lowlands
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2019-06-02T22:24:23 < kakimir> yes hello
2019-06-02T22:24:37 < boddax> i know neverland jackson home
2019-06-02T22:24:56 < kakimir> hmm
2019-06-02T22:25:13 < kakimir> last time I was here boddax was learning about difference of uart and usb
2019-06-02T22:25:19 < kakimir> I see he has been integrated
2019-06-02T22:25:48 < boddax> lol kakimir been in Amsterdam many times
2019-06-02T22:26:00 < boddax> have a good tobacco to smoke
2019-06-02T22:26:21 < kakimir> *wink*
2019-06-02T22:26:40 < boddax> tell you the truth not yet clear usb/uart
2019-06-02T22:26:59 < kakimir> what country are you from?
2019-06-02T22:27:34 < boddax> italy 3rd worl of europe
2019-06-02T22:29:47 < boddax> what about you kakimir? looks turkish nickname
2019-06-02T22:30:12 < kakimir> finn
2019-06-02T22:31:15 < Steffanx> kakimir has turkish parents
2019-06-02T22:32:14 < boddax> i have been in instanbul ..wornderful place bit scary
2019-06-02T22:33:03 < bitmask> I need to travel more
2019-06-02T22:33:09 < bitmask> only been out the US once
2019-06-02T22:33:27 < Steffanx> but traveling in europe is like visiting another state in the US
2019-06-02T22:33:35 < bitmask> I find I skip typing words more and more as I get older :P I sound less and less like an english speaker
2019-06-02T22:33:39 < boddax> where you been bitmask
2019-06-02T22:33:44 < bitmask> jamaica :P
2019-06-02T22:33:59 < boddax> amazing
2019-06-02T22:34:03 < bitmask> yes
2019-06-02T22:34:10 < boddax> nice tobacco also there
2019-06-02T22:34:20 < Steffanx> do you "sodder" or "solder" bitmask?
2019-06-02T22:34:27 < bitmask> I sodder
2019-06-02T22:34:30 < Steffanx> damnit.
2019-06-02T22:34:38 < bitmask> solder sounds aweful
2019-06-02T22:34:59 < bitmask> (probably just because I'm not used to it)
2019-06-02T22:36:28 < bitmask> I waste so much time on useless shit, I wanted nice filament clips to keep the roll from unraveling so I found one on thingiverse I liked, but I didnt like it enough so fusion 360 and 3 hours later, I'm printing 6 now of iteration 4 or 5
2019-06-02T22:37:19 < boddax> have you tried designspark mechanical?
2019-06-02T22:37:30 < boddax> freeware
2019-06-02T22:38:00 < bitmask> I dont not like fusion, I just meant there was really no reason for me to modify it at all, it was good enough as it was :)
2019-06-02T22:38:20 < boddax> then using Cura?
2019-06-02T22:38:24 < bitmask> yea
2019-06-02T22:39:07 < Steffanx> Yesterday it figured out why solid works is suddenly so slow. It takes like 1-x seconds for a dimension edit window to show up.
2019-06-02T22:39:17 < Steffanx> its the fucking gpu.
2019-06-02T22:39:38 < boddax> what card?
2019-06-02T22:39:48 < bitmask> what about the gpu, just need to upgrade or is it brokeded
2019-06-02T22:39:54 < Steffanx> I guess they want me to buy a quadro something instead of a gtx 2070
2019-06-02T22:40:01 < Steffanx> its officially unsupported.
2019-06-02T22:40:10 < bitmask> lame
2019-06-02T22:40:20 < Steffanx> Yeah, worked fine on my 1060, but not on the 2070
2019-06-02T22:40:24 < Steffanx> bastards.
2019-06-02T22:40:38 < bitmask> I still have a 980 in my gaming machine, and some shit in my mbp
2019-06-02T22:40:53 < Steffanx> even a new mbp comes with a shitty gpu :P
2019-06-02T22:40:57 < bitmask> :)
2019-06-02T22:44:56 < Steffanx> anyway, i bet they both outperform mine when it comes to opening up this tiny window
2019-06-02T22:45:39 < Steffanx> oh, im going to try it in a vm, perhaps that solves most of the issues.
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2019-06-02T23:35:46 < Thorn> what is IOPORT on L0?
2019-06-02T23:44:51 < Cracki> rm figure 1, it's a bus between cm0+ and gpio ports a-h
2019-06-02T23:45:03 < Cracki> also memory region
2019-06-02T23:45:15 < Cracki> (for gpio control)
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2019-06-02T23:46:42 < aandrew> I was reading about firmware dumping of read-protected internal flash. I wonder if that'd work with stlinkv3
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2019-06-02T23:47:19 < mawk> the trick with previous stlink was to reverse engineer the "encryption" of firmware update, send your own program on it that just dumps the fw
2019-06-02T23:47:25 < mawk> but I'm sure they patched that on the v3
2019-06-02T23:47:32 < mawk> with some kind of signing
2019-06-02T23:47:55 < mawk> but I saw nobody try 
2019-06-02T23:48:09 < mawk> what did you read about aandrew ? the decapping + UV method ?
2019-06-02T23:48:56 < Cracki> glitch it maybe
2019-06-02T23:49:14 < mawk> to bypass fw check you mean ?
2019-06-02T23:49:25 < Cracki> that and to maybe even dump it all if you're lucky
2019-06-02T23:49:32 < mawk> yeah
2019-06-02T23:49:45 < mawk> well if you can flash your own software on it you can dump the firmware
2019-06-02T23:50:02 < mawk> the trick with read protection is that it suffices of a single bit flip to disable the protection, or something like this
2019-06-02T23:50:06 < Cracki> I would be surprised if they don't set highest lockout
2019-06-02T23:50:07 < mawk> as I remember it
2019-06-02T23:50:17 < mawk> so if you can somehow corrupt this part of the flash you unlock it
2019-06-02T23:50:19 < Cracki> that was at level 1, iirc
2019-06-02T23:50:26 < Cracki> level 2 was more fucked
2019-06-02T23:50:37 < Cracki> or was that a downgrade from 2 to 1...
2019-06-02T23:51:36 < mawk> jujè
2019-06-02T23:51:45 < mawk> my cat walked on the keyboard
2019-06-02T23:53:04 < aandrew> mawk: nope. using single stepping in gdb and monitoring the registers, then careful register setup, step, save register contents, reset, prep register +1, step, read etc etc
2019-06-02T23:53:21 < aandrew> yes if jtag is disabled then this method would not work
2019-06-02T23:53:28 < aandrew> but if it's only readout protected this may work
2019-06-02T23:53:56 < Cracki> what chip does the stlinkv3 even use?
2019-06-02T23:55:43 < mawk> it's f7
2019-06-02T23:55:49 < mawk> STM32F723IE
2019-06-02T23:56:25 < karlp> v3 has a bunch of shit that seems superfluous, like, "you can use this as a spi/i2c gpio dongle too!" and nothing really otherwise better.
2019-06-02T23:56:32 < karlp> I mean, HS instead of FS, which should be good, but....
2019-06-02T23:56:36 < mawk> you have a link to a paper aandrew ?
2019-06-02T23:56:51 < karlp> we're going to quickly discover how slow flash actually is? I mean, most of them are limited by flash already,
2019-06-02T23:56:52 < specing> karlp: spi/i2c dongle? Nice
2019-06-02T23:57:12 < karlp> HS will be good for trace, sure, but meh, kinda weird upgrade to be positioned as the "new normal"
2019-06-02T23:57:54 < Cracki> these guys use light to attack it https://www.aisec.fraunhofer.de/en/FirmwareProtection.html
2019-06-02T23:58:09 < Cracki> I think that was the paper that circulated a while ago
2019-06-02T23:58:23 < Cracki> direct link https://www.aisec.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/aisec/ResearchExcellence/woot17-paper-obermaier.pdf
2019-06-02T23:58:27 < Cracki> looks very much like it
2019-06-02T23:59:13 < aandrew> karlp: yes, it does have a whole carrier board for doing shit like that in more convoluted ways than just programming the damn chip to do it yourself
2019-06-02T23:59:38 < aandrew> mawk: yes, one moment. 
2019-06-02T23:59:45 < aandrew> https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/nrf51822-code-readout-protection-bypass-a-how-to/
2019-06-02T23:59:56 < aandrew> that's for nrf51 which is readout protect but not debug disable
2019-06-02T23:59:57 < mawk> yes Cracki I linked that one some time ago
--- Day changed Mon Jun 03 2019
2019-06-03T00:00:05 < mawk> decapping + UV method
2019-06-03T00:00:11 < mawk> it's pretty nice
2019-06-03T00:00:21 < aandrew> in theory that should work for any cortex that is not debug disabled
2019-06-03T00:00:27 < mawk> thanks aandrew 
2019-06-03T00:00:50 < Cracki> not just M0?
2019-06-03T00:01:04 < aandrew> Cracki: there's no reason why it's m0-specific afaict
2019-06-03T00:01:21 < aandrew> it is awfully thumb-heavy but all cortexes are
2019-06-03T00:01:32 < Cracki> they link to something m0-specific but I haven't read further to see if that's what they do, or if they do something else
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2019-06-03T00:06:25 < mawk> sounds specific to m0 aandrew 
2019-06-03T00:06:35 < mawk> as it uses the trick of reset vector containing instructions instead of address
2019-06-03T00:06:36 < mawk> no ?
2019-06-03T00:07:38 < aandrew> I don't think so... maybe I misread
2019-06-03T00:24:48 < karlp> m0 reset vectors are same as m3 reset vectors... what are you saying mawk?
2019-06-03T00:27:10 < Thorn> seems like high quality usb cables https://ugreen.aliexpress.com/store/301635
2019-06-03T00:27:47 < Thorn> I already got 2, they seem to perform better than my old ones
2019-06-03T00:29:01 < Thorn> this one is good for charging https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32391749504.html
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2019-06-03T00:44:33 < Cracki> does it have data wires too?
2019-06-03T00:45:58 < aandrew> no, that makes it charge slower
2019-06-03T00:46:55 < mawk> the BootRAM constant karlp 
2019-06-03T00:47:08 < mawk> but it's not on M0, I remembered it wrong
2019-06-03T00:47:27 < Thorn> yes it does
2019-06-03T00:51:34 < mawk> ah
2019-06-03T00:51:38 < mawk> no I remember now
2019-06-03T00:51:49 < mawk> it's for other arm cores, not cortex M
2019-06-03T00:52:01 < mawk> vector table contains instructions
2019-06-03T01:07:35 < karlp> yes, one of the headline differences.
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2019-06-03T02:04:40 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3fi6uyyrEs
2019-06-03T02:04:45 < jly> hi kakimir 
2019-06-03T02:05:48 < kakimir> gn jly
2019-06-03T02:35:43 < Cracki> is that asmr
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2019-06-03T02:54:04 < bitmask> fuck working
2019-06-03T02:54:11 < bitmask> 1 delivery is enough
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2019-06-03T04:44:25 < R2COM> any ideas if this could be a good prionter
2019-06-03T04:44:27 < R2COM> https://www.amazon.com/Comgrow-Creality-Printer-Printing-Function/dp/B07KQ2MTGM/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=creality+ender+5&qid=1559526160&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1
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2019-06-03T04:59:09 < Cracki> have a review https://all3dp.com/1/creality-ender-5-review-3d-printer-specs/
2019-06-03T04:59:29 < aandrew> I had a utility called "helppc.com" which was like a dos version of man pages
2019-06-03T04:59:45 < aandrew> but I had an *incredible* set of data in that, and added a ton more too
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2019-06-03T05:14:35 < ds2> since that was from an ad, no.
2019-06-03T05:22:03 < aandrew> yeah that doesn't look all that impressive
2019-06-03T05:22:12 < aandrew> slightly bigger, box design, *shrug*
2019-06-03T05:30:13 < dongs> lol creality isnt that the chink garbage peddled by that transman called 'sexycyborg'
2019-06-03T05:30:19 < dongs> i wouldnt touch anything made by those fags
2019-06-03T05:31:08 < englishman> $350 3d printer on amadongs in 2019 what could possibly go wrong
2019-06-03T05:31:10 < aandrew> I rather like my ender 3 (not pro)
2019-06-03T05:31:54 < englishman> even has a qualitee chink power supply. it's so good it's pic #3
2019-06-03T05:31:55 < aandrew> got it for like CAD$325 last year
2019-06-03T05:32:15 < aandrew> have had *zero* problems with it once I put a glass bed on it
2019-06-03T05:32:37 < aandrew> I'm not printing AD&D miniatures or shit like that either, so the fine fine detail bits don't interest me
2019-06-03T05:32:54 < aandrew> but I can mock up shit, print it out and it's dimensionally accurate and repeatable which is all I care
2019-06-03T05:33:41 < aandrew> the cctree filament I get off amazon likes to print at 190, I had a shitload of stringing issues until I dropped the temp down as everyone said you want like 220ish
2019-06-03T05:33:55 < aandrew> and PLA probably does what that temp, I just think my printer's temp sensor is off
2019-06-03T05:34:46 < mawk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Wu#Vice_article
2019-06-03T05:34:48 < mawk> lol these assholes
2019-06-03T05:35:19 < dongs> "assholes"?
2019-06-03T05:35:31 < Cracki> journos gonna journ
2019-06-03T05:35:32 < dongs> the dudes boyfrend went apeshit and posted retarded stuff everywhere
2019-06-03T05:35:56 < dongs> vice article was nothing but positive (as much as you can be positive about a faggot in china)
2019-06-03T05:36:05 < dongs> and would have been a great advertisement for their gaytreon
2019-06-03T05:36:31 < dongs> also that article neesd to be deleted for being absolutely fucking not notable
2019-06-03T05:36:31 < Cracki> still, if the agreement was to leave private stuff out of it, they have to stick to it
2019-06-03T05:36:46 < dongs> try reading the article, cuckface
2019-06-03T05:36:51 < dongs> there's nothing in there
2019-06-03T05:36:52 < Cracki> cba
2019-06-03T05:36:53 < dongs> "personal"
2019-06-03T05:37:05 < dongs> retard blew up over literally nothing
2019-06-03T05:37:23 < Cracki> the paragraph doesn't even mention the dude
2019-06-03T05:37:34 < dongs> spoiler: naomi wu = the dude
2019-06-03T05:37:35 < Cracki> dunno what "retaliation" she fears from the chinese govt
2019-06-03T05:37:40 < Cracki> uh
2019-06-03T05:37:59 < Cracki> who's the creature with obvious boobs walking around as naomi wu then?
2019-06-03T05:38:36 < mawk> a man with fake boobs
2019-06-03T05:38:42 < mawk> or real, maybe
2019-06-03T05:38:47 < rajkosto> real fake boobs
2019-06-03T05:39:06 < Cracki> w/e
2019-06-03T05:39:38 < Cracki> never trust journos
2019-06-03T05:39:51 < dongs> cracki put your fucking dick down
2019-06-03T05:39:56 < dongs> and read the article
2019-06-03T05:39:59 < dongs> then make conclusions
2019-06-03T05:40:02 < Cracki> which one
2019-06-03T05:40:08 < dongs> nobody except mr.wu is at fault here.
2019-06-03T05:40:18 < englishman> lol
2019-06-03T05:41:07 < mawk> how do you know it's a trans dongs ?
2019-06-03T05:41:22 < mawk> I'm not super fluent in recognizing asian faces
2019-06-03T05:41:26 < mawk> dunno if that looks more man that woman
2019-06-03T05:42:10 < rajkosto> > vice "journalism"
2019-06-03T05:42:15 < rajkosto> > trans people
2019-06-03T05:42:18 < rajkosto> what could possibly go wrong
2019-06-03T05:42:21 < mawk> lol
2019-06-03T05:43:08 < Cracki> wp article mentions transhumanism, which is basically the cyborg religion, but that's got nothing to do with cutting bits off
2019-06-03T05:43:20 < Cracki> I'm trying to see why this is such a big deal. I don't see it.
2019-06-03T05:43:23 < mawk> she said she wanted to do a transhumanist act and that was boob augmentation
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2019-06-03T05:43:33 < mawk> then she said that it's a form of gender expression
2019-06-03T05:43:41 < mawk> that may be it
2019-06-03T05:44:02 < mawk> but anyway yes the transhumanist speech is maybe not warmly welcomed in china
2019-06-03T05:44:23 < mawk> also the fact she uses anti-censorship tools, most likely pretty illegal
2019-06-03T05:44:32 < mawk> but anyone at the government can know it before vice article
2019-06-03T05:44:33 < Cracki> sounds like she fears govt response because she's about bi/homosexuality
2019-06-03T05:44:51 < Cracki> mawk, why would the chinese have anything against transhumanism?
2019-06-03T05:45:07 < Cracki> that just means augmenting the body with tech, not transgender-anything
2019-06-03T05:45:12 < mawk> yeah I know
2019-06-03T05:45:30 < mawk> but some regimes have rigid philosophies so I wonder
2019-06-03T05:45:50 < Cracki> this whole drama looks like it's about her sexual orientation and keeping her real identity private
2019-06-03T05:45:50 < mawk> some dictatorships put you in jail for reading the wrong book, so something as extreme as transhumanism could be banned
2019-06-03T05:46:05 < Cracki> lol that's not extreme at all
2019-06-03T05:46:24 < mawk> modifying human body is shocking to many people
2019-06-03T05:46:29 < Cracki> that's at best competition to china's state religion
2019-06-03T05:46:32 < mawk> not to me, but I can see why some people don't like that
2019-06-03T05:46:41 < Cracki> they have insulin pumps in china, don't they
2019-06-03T05:46:53 < mawk> also the fact some people are augmented and some are not may not be compatible with their pseudo communism
2019-06-03T05:46:58 < Cracki> or pacemakers
2019-06-03T05:47:00 < mawk> yeah
2019-06-03T05:47:08 < mawk> but it's about augmenting healthy individuals no ?
2019-06-03T05:47:38 < Cracki> maybe, but those who go for it have issues in one way or another
2019-06-03T05:48:08 < Cracki> especially those nutjobs who superglue magnets onto their fingernails and call themselves cyborgs
2019-06-03T05:48:31 < Cracki> or inject an rfid dog chip under their skin
2019-06-03T05:48:37 < Cracki> like that's an accomplishment
2019-06-03T05:49:29 < Cracki> the most transhumanism you can find today is in biomedical tech, artificial organs, prostheses, all that
2019-06-03T05:54:23 < aandrew> the dog chip id thing is actually useful
2019-06-03T05:54:39 < aandrew> but my wife's car does 99% of what it can do without the subdermal implant
2019-06-03T05:54:58 < dongs> let's just agree that wu is a faggot and should be sent to chinese gulag
2019-06-03T05:55:50 < Cracki> I'll believe you when I see a picture of her having a sausage between the legs
2019-06-03T05:56:33 < Cracki> my money is on her being lesbian or something like that
2019-06-03T05:56:36 < R2COM> aandrew but ender 3 is same what i showed 
2019-06-03T05:56:43 < Cracki> no you showed ender 5
2019-06-03T05:57:02 < Cracki> sounds like a revision
2019-06-03T05:57:06 < R2COM> i mean if you like ender 3 , then ender 5 should be just fine isnt it
2019-06-03T05:57:17 < aandrew> Cracki: that is my guess as well (lesbian)
2019-06-03T05:57:40 < Cracki> the frame and x/y looks sturdy, the z bars could be thicker imho
2019-06-03T05:57:45 < aandrew> Cracki: ender5 is evolution of ender3 from waht I can tell
2019-06-03T05:58:12 < Cracki> personally not a friend of bowden tube (less than stellar experience with an ultimaker 2), but that's probably ok
2019-06-03T05:59:17 < aandrew> I've nto had any issues with this one, not even with TPU
2019-06-03T05:59:39 < aandrew> haven't done MUCH TPU mind, but it worked reasonaly well and i bet I could have tweaked it better if I was arsed to do so
2019-06-03T05:59:41 < R2COM> ok so the ender 5 should be fine to buy then?
2019-06-03T05:59:42 < Cracki> I'm also used to manual leveling from the UM2 and see no reason to need autoleveling. the construction shouldn't make autoleveling a necessity
2019-06-03T06:00:14 < Cracki> go look for some reviews of sub-$500 printers. I saw one list with secret rating algorithm where the ender 5 was in the top 5
2019-06-03T06:00:48 < R2COM>  it says 0.1mm accuracy
2019-06-03T06:00:49 < Cracki> I'd go for alu cubes too, not those flimsy plexiglass arches
2019-06-03T06:00:52 < R2COM> what im curious about is
2019-06-03T06:01:09 < R2COM> can you do then bumps/cutouts/dimples/etc which say... 0.3mm?
2019-06-03T06:01:12 < Cracki> (flimsy plexi arch is what those "i3" are)
2019-06-03T06:01:14 < R2COM> or say 0.5mm
2019-06-03T06:01:21 < Cracki> uh sure?
2019-06-03T06:01:27 < aandrew> yeah I think autolevel is kind of a fool's errand
2019-06-03T06:01:29 < R2COM> if +/-0.1mm is accuracy, then 0.5mm sizing is really achievable?
2019-06-03T06:01:38 < Cracki> *WELL*
2019-06-03T06:01:38 < aandrew> fix your bed, don't fuck around with a bent one
2019-06-03T06:01:52 < Cracki> you're laying down lines of plastic
2019-06-03T06:01:56 < Cracki> those have a minimum width
2019-06-03T06:02:11 < Cracki> so your walls will be 0.4mm at minimum or something, whatever the nozzle is
2019-06-03T06:02:34 < Cracki> and if you wanted 0.5mm, you'd get a single pass of 0.4mm, or maybe it's squeezing more or less to give you 1x0.5 or 2x0.25mm
2019-06-03T06:02:43 < Cracki> but if you want something to be 2.0mm, that's simple
2019-06-03T06:02:50 < Cracki> play with a slicer, it'll show you the toolpath
2019-06-03T06:03:11 < Cracki> if you had a cube of 20 mm and you wanted a face to be indented by 0.1mm, that WILL work
2019-06-03T06:03:21 < R2COM> aandrew you tried things like some cutout with <1mm?
2019-06-03T06:03:32 < R2COM> or bump of 0.5mm thing etc?
2019-06-03T06:03:58 < R2COM> im curious of repeatability of dimension of that enderX with fine stuff
2019-06-03T06:04:36 < R2COM> also if im correct it says nozzle is 0.4mm... but thats changeable?
2019-06-03T06:04:50 < Cracki> all those printers use steppers, so they'll be very repeatable. what tolerances are left are in mechanical flexing of the frame and maybe the belts
2019-06-03T06:04:59 < Cracki> sure, nozzles are often changeable
2019-06-03T06:05:02 < aandrew> R2COM: I've not needed anything that fancy
2019-06-03T06:05:23 < R2COM> but you done what kind of stuff
2019-06-03T06:05:26 < aandrew> there aren't that many applications that need the ablity to do a sub-1mm cutout
2019-06-03T06:05:30 < R2COM> at least something like... hole for screw etc
2019-06-03T06:05:33 < R2COM> small one i mean
2019-06-03T06:05:34 < Cracki> 0.4 is quite standard, you can go lower but if you need much more precision, go for resin-UV thingies
2019-06-03T06:05:40 < R2COM> i dont need fancy but im trying to know limit
2019-06-03T06:05:51 < Cracki> FDM printers can print threads up to some limit
2019-06-03T06:06:03 < Cracki> otherwise print teh hole and let the screw "tap" it
2019-06-03T06:06:24 < R2COM> i believe it should be just fine for what i plan then
2019-06-03T06:06:24 < aandrew> I can do m3 screwholes but really you want a 5mm hole and put a brass threadded boss in there
2019-06-03T06:06:29 < Cracki> I've printed 1-2 mm pitch threads and that worked ok
2019-06-03T06:06:52 < Cracki> aye. people use inserts or make slots for nuts
2019-06-03T06:06:52 < R2COM> or for example, make Hex cutout for the nut, and just put brass Hex nut there, right?
2019-06-03T06:06:54 < aandrew> I did make a nifty threaded container (the two halves threaded on to each other) which worked very well
2019-06-03T06:07:15 < aandrew> R2COM: yes you can make the hex "hole" for the nut but I by far prefer those inserts
2019-06-03T06:07:29 < aandrew> a nut will tend to pull out even if a tight fit, those inserts won't
2019-06-03T06:07:50 < R2COM> what is insert
2019-06-03T06:07:50 < R2COM> ?
2019-06-03T06:08:01 < R2COM> but how will nut pull if the bolt is screwed in?
2019-06-03T06:08:09 < Cracki> you put the nut on the other side of the wall
2019-06-03T06:08:12 < Cracki> then it doesn't pull out
2019-06-03T06:08:32 < aandrew> Cracki: if you can, yes
2019-06-03T06:08:47 < Cracki> otherwise slot from sideways, under the surface, for the nut
2019-06-03T06:08:50 < Cracki> if there's space
2019-06-03T06:08:59 < R2COM> aandrew also which software do you use for Ender 3? will it also work on ender 5?
2019-06-03T06:09:09 < Cracki> inserts are very nice. you can even heat them up and squeeze them in
2019-06-03T06:09:18 < aandrew> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/x/32961915881.html
2019-06-03T06:09:36 < aandrew> R2COM: yes. I use simplify3d, it's all gcode out the other end
2019-06-03T06:09:44 < aandrew> Cracki: that's exactly what I do
2019-06-03T06:09:45 < Cracki> 3d printers eat g-code, usually. you generate g-code using a "slicer". a slicer eats "stl" files.
2019-06-03T06:09:54 < R2COM> hmm yes those inserts seem great
2019-06-03T06:10:07 < R2COM> gcode?
2019-06-03T06:10:07 < Cracki> some printers take shortcuts, some use "binary g-code" like repetier.
2019-06-03T06:10:10 < R2COM> is inside that soft?
2019-06-03T06:10:18 < Cracki> g-code is liek assembly
2019-06-03T06:10:27 < Cracki> cnc machines eat g-code
2019-06-03T06:10:29 < aandrew> they're cheap as fuck but always have a screw handy -- thread the insert on to the screw first, about 20% of them seem to be elliptical rather than round and the screws won't thread in
2019-06-03T06:10:43 < aandrew> but when you're getting them for $1 for 100 what can you expect :-)
2019-06-03T06:10:45 < Cracki> it says move there, move there while extruding, ...
2019-06-03T06:11:12 < R2COM> so 20% dont fit and you need to throw away?
2019-06-03T06:11:17 < aandrew> R2COM: yes
2019-06-03T06:11:42 < aandrew> R2COM: but if you buy them NOT from the lowest possible price I suspect that is down under 1%
2019-06-03T06:11:57 < Cracki> tap with a hammer maybe :P
2019-06-03T06:12:23 < aandrew> Cracki: maybe. they're cheap and it's a lot easier to test and toss rather than have an insert the screw is incompatible with
2019-06-03T06:12:25 < R2COM> cool
2019-06-03T06:12:30 < R2COM> im looking at simplify3d
2019-06-03T06:12:33 < R2COM> $150
2019-06-03T06:12:35 < R2COM> also
2019-06-03T06:12:37 < aandrew> I don't think I'd recommend it today
2019-06-03T06:12:37 < Cracki> tap meaning whack them into shape :P
2019-06-03T06:12:43 < R2COM> soft?
2019-06-03T06:12:50 < R2COM> which soft you would recommend?
2019-06-03T06:12:51 < aandrew> Cracki: I know, but what I'm saying is they're so thin you'll end up breaking them
2019-06-03T06:12:58 < aandrew> R2COM: probably cura now
2019-06-03T06:12:58 < Cracki> makes sense
2019-06-03T06:13:04 < R2COM> why?
2019-06-03T06:13:15 < aandrew> I haven't tested it lately but it's really come ahead of simplify from what I've read
2019-06-03T06:13:45 < dongs> is it free as in aids?
2019-06-03T06:13:57 < Cracki> this explicitly lists three popular options: "cura, repetier-host, simplify 3d" https://www.creality3donline.com/official-creality-3d-ender-5-3d-printer_p0123.html
2019-06-03T06:14:02 < R2COM> i wonder, all those software packages, do they allow exporting to some other formats rather than just those for 3D printer?
2019-06-03T06:14:11 < dongs> R2COM: why would they
2019-06-03T06:14:26 < R2COM> for example if you happy with prototype and wanna give files to some chink company to make it from plastic etc?
2019-06-03T06:14:30 < Cracki> slicers only slice and spit out gcode.
2019-06-03T06:14:35 < Cracki> for making 3d models, you need other software.
2019-06-03T06:14:44 < dongs> R2COM: you just give them your ORIGINAL 3d data that you made the sliced shit from..
2019-06-03T06:14:44 < Cracki> like autodesk, or freecad, or openscad, or ...
2019-06-03T06:14:55 < dongs> yeah you don't "make" 3d models in any of those softwares
2019-06-03T06:15:02 < dongs> they just take step or wahetver and turn it itno gcode
2019-06-03T06:15:13 < Cracki> you'd send the chinese company your STL files or maybe STEP files, which are device-independent
2019-06-03T06:15:16 < dongs> and have some basic arrangement capabilities so you can throw several pparts on a a table
2019-06-03T06:15:41 < Cracki> stl is triangles with orientation.
2019-06-03T06:15:45 < Cracki> really simple.
2019-06-03T06:15:47 < R2COM> you mean give them real printed stuff?
2019-06-03T06:15:53 < Cracki> wat
2019-06-03T06:16:15 < dongs> no you retard
2019-06-03T06:16:16 < aandrew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qihjxvOIFr0 hahahaha
2019-06-03T06:16:19 < dongs> you give them 3D models you made
2019-06-03T06:16:26 < dongs> before you imported them into cura or wahtever
2019-06-03T06:16:31 < Cracki> nice tentacle
2019-06-03T06:16:36 < R2COM> wait
2019-06-03T06:16:52 < R2COM> i thought Cura, or simplify3d alloows me to CREATE 3d models right inside that software?
2019-06-03T06:16:53 < Cracki> model = data
2019-06-03T06:16:56 < Cracki> nah
2019-06-03T06:16:59 < dongs> nope
2019-06-03T06:17:01 < Cracki> they take a model and slice it
2019-06-03T06:17:08 < R2COM> where do i create that shit?
2019-06-03T06:17:09 < Cracki> slicing is what needs to be done so a 3d printer can print it
2019-06-03T06:17:14 < Cracki> like autodesk, or freecad, or openscad, or ...
2019-06-03T06:17:16 < dongs> solidcocks/autocad/whatever
2019-06-03T06:17:18 < Cracki> that's what you use
2019-06-03T06:17:29 < Cracki> there's even some web based stuff out there
2019-06-03T06:17:30 < R2COM> those are huge expensive packages
2019-06-03T06:17:44 < R2COM> aandrew what soft you used to actually create 3D model?
2019-06-03T06:17:45 < dongs> yeah if you find a non-retarded simple 3d modeler that is actually usable by normal people I'm all ears
2019-06-03T06:17:48 < Cracki> they're all free if you steal them, but freecad is actually free and openscad too
2019-06-03T06:17:55 < dongs> i tried using autodesk fusion360 it was fucking cancer
2019-06-03T06:18:08 < Cracki> autodesk has inventor and this 360 stuff. with a 3d mouse, it's quite easy to use.
2019-06-03T06:18:16 < dongs> cuz sometimes i wanna make 3d models for components and shit
2019-06-03T06:18:18 < Cracki> run through the tutorials and you know the basics
2019-06-03T06:18:25 < dongs> but i dont wanna install 50 gigs of stolen solidworks
2019-06-03T06:18:28 < Cracki> or go with openscad, that's very programmer-friendly
2019-06-03T06:18:30 < boddax> R2COM try to start designspark mechanical easy to use and freeware
2019-06-03T06:18:32 < R2COM> so flow is, make STEP file with any soft, then give that to simplify3D/Cura and it sends it to printer?
2019-06-03T06:18:33 < Cracki> openscad then :P
2019-06-03T06:18:41 < Cracki> step or stl, yes
2019-06-03T06:18:43 < dongs> yes
2019-06-03T06:18:58 < R2COM> ok nice
2019-06-03T06:19:04 < dongs> alternatively, goto makerfaggot.com or wahtever and download some existing model to print
2019-06-03T06:19:04 < Cracki> visit thingiverse
2019-06-03T06:19:12 < dongs> yeah thingiverse thats the site i was thikning
2019-06-03T06:19:12 < Cracki> they give you stl files and often the source files too
2019-06-03T06:19:26 < Cracki> if you're lucky, you can edit those models
2019-06-03T06:19:31 < aandrew> R2COM: no, cura/simplify are slicers
2019-06-03T06:19:40 < aandrew> R2COM: you use something like fusion360 or whatever to create the 3d models
2019-06-03T06:19:44 < Cracki> (not in the slicer of course, that's for placing and generating gcode)
2019-06-03T06:19:53 < R2COM> got it
2019-06-03T06:20:12 < boddax> then Cura adjust your printer settings and select initial layer, wall thickness inside design triangle hexagon whatever changes the total time to print ..speaking of hours
2019-06-03T06:21:02 < Cracki> don't be shocked by "hours" of print time. small objects (inch in size) can print in minutes.
2019-06-03T06:21:23 < dongs> hey you know how you can change units with Q in altidumb, but if youre already in a text entry box, Q doesn't work, but Ctrl+Q does
2019-06-03T06:21:26 < dongs> handy
2019-06-03T06:21:29 < boddax> yes depends his printer model
2019-06-03T06:21:49 < R2COM> aandrew i think ill get that ender 5 and see how it goes
2019-06-03T06:21:57 < boddax> my creality maximum rate not much fast
2019-06-03T06:22:19 < R2COM> boddax which crreality model you have
2019-06-03T06:22:26 < boddax> ender 3
2019-06-03T06:22:34 < R2COM> ok
2019-06-03T06:23:14 < boddax> if dont have ..put in order also glass plate ..usefull
2019-06-03T06:23:22 < Cracki> print time is mostly proportional to object weight, but also complexity. continuous motion is good, having to move and put down single dots all the time costs more time.
2019-06-03T06:24:35 < R2COM> ok, anything else needed?
2019-06-03T06:24:42 < Cracki> filament
2019-06-03T06:24:43 < boddax> then Cura control also temperature of plate and filament ..need test before to find good settings
2019-06-03T06:24:54 < Cracki> if the printer doesn't come with complimentary reels
2019-06-03T06:26:17 < Cracki> quick calculation: 0.4mm nozzle * 0.1mm layer height * 50mm/s = 2 cubic mm per second, or 7.2 cubic centimeters (~grams) per hours
2019-06-03T06:26:20 < boddax> usually printed parts if no good settings warping
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2019-06-03T06:26:37 < Cracki> so a kilo roll will last a while
2019-06-03T06:27:15 < aandrew> depends on what you print but yeah
2019-06-03T06:27:15 < R2COM> ok
2019-06-03T06:29:37 < Cracki> oh hell the dude calls his tentacle machine RICHARD
2019-06-03T06:30:21 < boddax> name of his ex
2019-06-03T06:30:40 < Cracki> short form of richard is "dick"
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2019-06-03T06:34:02 < aandrew> he's also got an interesting mechanically linked CVT design
2019-06-03T06:35:00 < Cracki> one thing about accuracy... when you take calipers to a test cube, you'll probably see 0.1mm deviation... but no matter the size (absolute), so that's about right
2019-06-03T06:35:37 < Cracki> that's got to do with how well the extruder manages to extrude, and also because it can't extrude perfect 0.4mm x 0.1mm rectangular sausages
2019-06-03T06:36:58 < R2COM> aandrew when you design the cutout for those brass inserts, do you actually design the cutout for each of that insert tooth? or you just design a simple circled hole and then "force" the insert so that its tooth "cut" into the hole and stay firm and fit inside plastic?
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2019-06-03T06:42:52 < Cracki> yes
2019-06-03T06:43:06 < Cracki> fdm printers *can* print gears and timing pulleys though
2019-06-03T06:43:18 < Cracki> I've managed to print GT2-2mm pulleys that worked
2019-06-03T06:43:31 < Cracki> (tooth pitch 2mm)
2019-06-03T06:46:45 < Cracki> those shafts are 8mm, so the pulleys must be 20-tooth, so you get 0.2mm per fullstep. that's 0.05mm at 1/4 or 0.0125mm at 1/16 microstepping. pretty standard
2019-06-03T06:47:09 < Cracki> which is the precision it can move with in x/y
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2019-06-03T11:34:02 < jadew> hmm, last night I was so pumped, barely got myself to go to sleep. I postponed my PCB order, thinking I'll do another board today and send them all out in one batch
2019-06-03T11:34:33 < jadew> today I just feel like watching movies and eating
2019-06-03T11:35:18 < jadew> I have to get back up there
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2019-06-03T12:15:00 < jpa-> a pcb today is worth more than 5 pcbs next year
2019-06-03T12:16:02 < rajkosto> > expecting to be able to design a pcb in a day
2019-06-03T12:16:06 < rajkosto> are you sanic
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2019-06-03T12:30:24 < jadew> jpa-, yeah... I won't delay it further if it's not done today
2019-06-03T12:33:53 < jadew> rajkosto, it's cool to sit on a PCB for several days, but sometimes it's faster to just make the mistakes and deal with them when the PCB arrives, then fix them in the next prototype
2019-06-03T12:34:21 < rajkosto> must be real simple pcbs then
2019-06-03T12:34:23 < rajkosto> takes a week to a month
2019-06-03T12:34:38 < jadew> it's a respin of a different PCB
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2019-06-03T13:01:14 < zyp> pcbs come in all sorts of complexities
2019-06-03T13:02:37 < zyp> and it's all a question of what you put into "design a pcb"
2019-06-03T13:03:07 < zyp> layout? schematics? part selection? figuring out how to even make it work?
2019-06-03T13:08:19 < karlp> and what you want to achieve from the pcb.
2019-06-03T13:08:25 < karlp> is it final? is it testing ideas?
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2019-06-03T13:31:15 < jpa-> is it just so that you have more scrap pcbs that you can put next to the malfunctioning prototype when spreading paste?
2019-06-03T13:33:21 < zyp> haha
2019-06-03T13:33:45 < karlp> iirc dangerous prototypes wsa "selling" spare leftover pcbs a while ago, 
2019-06-03T13:34:03 < karlp> youcould just put a checkbox in on and order form and they'd include ~5-10 pcbs from the drawer of shit that never got finished.
2019-06-03T13:34:07 < zyp> sparkfun too, I bought a pack for exactly that purpose
2019-06-03T13:37:53 < karlp> didn't have enough of your own?
2019-06-03T13:39:12 < zyp> no, I just make awesome pcbs, not scrap :)
2019-06-03T13:40:37 < englishman> sparkfun thinks otherwise
2019-06-03T13:41:21 < zyp> or to put it more seriously, why would I have scrap pcbs when I were just starting out fabbing stuff?
2019-06-03T13:41:50 < zyp> scrap is leftovers from old projects, you don't have those when you're starting your first project
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2019-06-03T13:56:35 < BrainDamage> scrapfun
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2019-06-03T14:55:19 < englishman> how's it going bd
2019-06-03T15:00:51 < rajkosto> i now wait many moons for my pcbs to arrive
2019-06-03T15:23:56 < dongs> does anything use gerber x2 files?
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2019-06-03T15:40:59 < Kerr-A> https://tinyurl.com/y5m2f3yp -> Page 171 -> Addres 0x0000 0084 is listed twice? Is this a mistake? Does it hold meaning? If it's a mistake, can I trust the whole table?
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2019-06-03T15:48:51 < karlp> could you maybe refer to the fucking ref manual instead of secrete fucking urls taht download whole pdfs again?
2019-06-03T15:49:40 < karlp> table's fine, just ignore the error in the reserved block
2019-06-03T15:49:49 < karlp> it woudl have been a carryover from them turning on tim6.
2019-06-03T15:49:52 < karlp> iirc not all f0s have tim6
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2019-06-03T16:00:03 < Kerr-A> TY. I'll list the RM as well next time. I'm slightly annoyed that F0 and F1 vector tables aren't compatible :s like RTC at 0x4C on F103 but RTC at 0x48 on F030. "Pin Compatible" but not software compatible at that level.
2019-06-03T16:05:11 < karlp> get over it. they never claimed that, nor would you really even want that.
2019-06-03T16:05:17 < karlp> they're not even the same cpu architecture
2019-06-03T16:05:48 < karlp> if you wrote your own crap that relied on explicit addreesses you made your own bed, and get to relax in it's comforts.
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2019-06-03T16:20:26 < Thorn> besides F0 RTC is probably quite different from the F1 one
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2019-06-03T16:23:56 < karlp> f1 rts is different to every other rtc.
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2019-06-03T17:21:43 < Mangy_Dog> on stm32f103 do PC13,14 have internal pullups?
2019-06-03T17:21:53 < Mangy_Dog> 13 14 and 15 i mean
2019-06-03T17:22:04 < karlp> that's in the datasheet
2019-06-03T17:22:08 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: if there were only some document you could reference that outlines the function and feature of every pin on every package...
2019-06-03T17:22:26 < aandrew> offhand, all I/O has programmable weak pull-up and -down, but there are exceptions
2019-06-03T17:22:37 < Mangy_Dog> yet its quicker and easier to just ask in case anyone can remember of the top of there heads on one of the most common stm32 chips
2019-06-03T17:22:53 < karlp> it's easier in the short term, but it develops a picture of you as a freeloading cunt :)
2019-06-03T17:23:06 < Mangy_Dog> than spending 5-10 minutes to read the data sheet for something i need to find out a bit quicker
2019-06-03T17:23:43 < Mangy_Dog> karlp you know... instead of actually being an insulting fuckface, you coudl always just i dunno... Not say anything?
2019-06-03T17:24:13 < karlp> how would that teach you to read a datasheet?
2019-06-03T17:24:23 < Mangy_Dog> i can read datasheets
2019-06-03T17:24:39 < Mangy_Dog> i just wanted to ask for a hopeful quick anser
2019-06-03T17:24:41 < karlp> ok, how baout, instead of being a lazy arse, you could just i dunno... read the datahseet?
2019-06-03T17:24:42 < Mangy_Dog> but instead i get insults
2019-06-03T17:24:50 < Mangy_Dog> shows how much of a ignorant twat you are
2019-06-03T17:25:45 < karlp> well, it's been 5 minutes now, you've got two responses so far.
2019-06-03T17:26:25 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: you're new here. what kind of an impression would you like to make?
2019-06-03T17:26:33 < aandrew> and we gave you a quick answer
2019-06-03T17:26:36 < Mangy_Dog> its ok karlp youre on ignore now you dont have to bother
2019-06-03T17:27:00 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: are you new to IRC in general, or just this chan?
2019-06-03T17:27:08 < Mangy_Dog> i couldnt care less if im new or old here... Theres just no need to be selfrichous cunts about it
2019-06-03T17:27:15 < Mangy_Dog> im not even new to this chan
2019-06-03T17:27:26 < Mangy_Dog> been on irc for 25... 6 years
2019-06-03T17:29:17 < Mangy_Dog> just so you know. trying to take a quick look at the 117 page datasheet, not even a worksearch on pullup finds any entries...
2019-06-03T17:29:21 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: meh, you'll get used to it; your question does come across as lazy, and why would you even trust someone random persons memory without verifying?
2019-06-03T17:29:54 < jpa-> pinout section should have it, and you can always double-check in refman to see if it has the pull-up configuration registers
2019-06-03T17:30:11 < jpa-> but in general, all pins have configurable pull-up/pull-down
2019-06-03T17:30:40 < jpa-> (it should be at most 2 minutes to check the datasheet)
2019-06-03T17:30:46 < karlp> pc13/14/15 are the super weak io drive pins iirc?
2019-06-03T17:30:57 < karlp> for LSE?
2019-06-03T17:30:58 < jpa-> yeah, sounds like the backup domain pins
2019-06-03T17:31:12 < jpa-> they have a bunch of restrictions, but IIRC weak pull-up/pull-down is not one of them
2019-06-03T17:31:21 < Mangy_Dog> well how do you know if its lazy? I might be really busy juggling three different things... Such as currently compiling a 200 componant BOM and itemising each price... While just discovering that I might need to put a physical pullup on the pin as the there might not be an internal. So im here asking if anyone happens to know... Fine if no one knows... But coming out with quips like Read the 
2019-06-03T17:31:21 < Mangy_Dog> datasheet if not insightful or helpful Its insulting and filled with self importance.
2019-06-03T17:32:09 < karlp> ahh, only you are busy. got it.
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2019-06-03T17:40:31 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: but yeah, in general don't assume that anyone would remember such details outright without having to check; there are hundreds of STM32 variants and while STM32F103 may be somewhat popular, it is also very old and crappy and few people develop new stuff for it
2019-06-03T17:40:53 < Mangy_Dog> thats fine 
2019-06-03T17:40:59 < jpa-> in general if you get a detailed answer here, it means that someone found your question interesting enough that they checked the datasheet or google search
2019-06-03T17:41:09 < Mangy_Dog> anyway apart from all that i cant see anything in the datasheet that suggests if it has pullups or not
2019-06-03T17:42:13 < aandrew> in the end, you got the most honest answer we can give. You still have to go look, but now somehow we're the assholes. 
2019-06-03T17:42:25 < aandrew> are you *sure* you've been on IRC for 25 years, because you certainly don't act like it
2019-06-03T17:43:51 < Mangy_Dog> you can choose to help or not to help, but throwing insults is "honest awnsers"?
2019-06-03T17:43:53 < Mangy_Dog> sure
2019-06-03T17:43:53 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2019-06-03T17:44:10 < aandrew> really? Please copy and paste my insult 
2019-06-03T17:44:14 < jpa-> or anyones
2019-06-03T17:44:24 < jpa-> even karlp just gave a honest answer of the impression your question gives
2019-06-03T17:44:40 < jpa-> and while i might have not told you that, it is true
2019-06-03T17:44:43 < Mangy_Dog> <karlp> it's easier in the short term, but it develops a picture of you as a freeloading cunt :)
2019-06-03T17:44:48 < Mangy_Dog> <karlp> how would that teach you to read a datasheet?
2019-06-03T17:44:53 < Mangy_Dog> sure not insulting at all
2019-06-03T17:45:12 < aandrew> it's alright... this channel isn't for everyone, and IRC is definitely not for people with thin skins
2019-06-03T17:45:24 < jpa-> if you think that's insulting, you might not last on this channel very long...
2019-06-03T17:45:31 < aandrew> mind you, someone with 25+ years' experience on the platform might already know that
2019-06-03T17:45:54 < Mangy_Dog> whatever
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2019-06-03T18:03:39 < mawk> the court gave its decision, I have 2 months to leave
2019-06-03T18:07:06 < jpa-> time to order a big cardboard box?
2019-06-03T18:07:27 < mawk> yeah
2019-06-03T18:07:48 < jadew> just be on the lookout for someone who's buying a fridge
2019-06-03T18:07:57 < mawk> in reality the state officer has to review each expelling order one by one, so I have a few years
2019-06-03T18:08:04 < mawk> but then I'll have a big fine
2019-06-03T18:08:26 < zyp> I've got cardboard boxes to throw out, just come pick up
2019-06-03T18:08:32 < mawk> lol
2019-06-03T18:08:44 < jadew> everyone wants to pitch in :)
2019-06-03T18:08:46 < mawk> I'll rent a truck and move everything in one go to NL
2019-06-03T18:08:52 < mawk> and throw away useless furniture
2019-06-03T18:11:41 < jpa-> you could sneak in zyp's server cabinet
2019-06-03T18:12:42 < jadew> mawk, I was in France last week, but didn't stay in Paris. Would have asked you to come have a beer with me if I did.
2019-06-03T18:13:04 < zyp> aww
2019-06-03T18:13:38 < zyp> speaking of beer, I'm going to London in two weeks if anybody wants to grab one
2019-06-03T18:13:53 < karlp> which dayes?
2019-06-03T18:13:56 < zyp> although AFAIK all the UK regulars here are not in London
2019-06-03T18:14:02 < karlp> I'm there 11-12.
2019-06-03T18:14:09 < zyp> 19-25
2019-06-03T18:14:17 < Mangy_Dog> used to be in london
2019-06-03T18:14:19 < Mangy_Dog> norfolk now
2019-06-03T18:14:26 < mawk> haha thanks jadew 
2019-06-03T18:14:34 < karlp> another time then zyp :)
2019-06-03T18:16:26 < zyp> was considering next week first, since monday is a holiday here, but plane tickets were cheaper later
2019-06-03T18:16:42 < mawk> take the train
2019-06-03T18:16:44 < karlp> yeah, I get to travel on a holiday here too, but I'll just get it back later.
2019-06-03T18:16:58 < mawk> although I don't remember where you live
2019-06-03T18:17:00 < zyp> work trip?
2019-06-03T18:17:04 < karlp> don't think the train from norway to london, or from iceland to london would be really sane :)
2019-06-03T18:17:10 < mawk> ah right
2019-06-03T18:17:18 < Rickta59> why did you want to know Mangy_Dog about PC13 and PC14?
2019-06-03T18:17:49 < Rickta59> are you building a board or just using a board?
2019-06-03T18:17:54 < zyp> Rickta59, presumably to work out if that pin configuration would work
2019-06-03T18:19:13 < Rickta59> PC13 is a shit pin .. limited in that it has a max of 3mA
2019-06-03T18:19:19 < mawk> jadew: the last person from IRC I met became my girlfriend, 4 years ago
2019-06-03T18:19:37 < Mangy_Dog> rickta i know, but ive used up every other pin and i didnt want to multiplex
2019-06-03T18:19:37 < jadew> I'm already married mate, so don't get your hopes up
2019-06-03T18:19:45 < zyp> Rickta59, not that it matters for pullup, pullups are like 40k
2019-06-03T18:19:46 < Rickta59> and PC14 is for the LSE
2019-06-03T18:20:05 < mawk> lol
2019-06-03T18:20:21 < Rickta59> sure zyp 
2019-06-03T18:20:31 < Rickta59> just wondering why he was looking at using it
2019-06-03T18:20:33 < Rickta59> them
2019-06-03T18:20:34 < zyp> Rickta59, and you wouldn't normally use pullup on an output either, so limited drive strength doesn't matter
2019-06-03T18:20:47 < zyp> maybe just because it'd fit the layout?
2019-06-03T18:21:16 < zyp> «I need a gpio over here, can I use this pin or do I have to route around the chip to that available pin on the other side?»
2019-06-03T18:21:27 < karlp> we never really got into the why :)
2019-06-03T18:21:36 < Mangy_Dog> Ok I have three inputs still needed... 1 is a solder jumper for setting debug, 2 for the last two input buttons. PC13 14 15 are all thats left... 
2019-06-03T18:21:37 < zyp> I don't think the why matters
2019-06-03T18:21:46 < Rickta59> did you use pb2?
2019-06-03T18:21:46 < karlp> no, don't think so either.
2019-06-03T18:21:56 < karlp> leaving pc13/14/15 to laste was a good plan.
2019-06-03T18:22:11 < Mangy_Dog> it has the standard led on there, but i was planning to keep it as a basic indicator
2019-06-03T18:22:12 < Rickta59> or use some of the SWD pins?
2019-06-03T18:22:12 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, should be fine
2019-06-03T18:22:23 < Rickta59> ok so this is your own board
2019-06-03T18:22:27 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2019-06-03T18:22:28 < Mangy_Dog> sirry
2019-06-03T18:22:30 < Mangy_Dog> sorry
2019-06-03T18:22:35 < Mangy_Dog> its a gaming controller hid
2019-06-03T18:22:50 < Mangy_Dog> thats why i didnt want to multiplex
2019-06-03T18:22:54 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, I checked the datasheet for you, it doesn't say that pullups are unavailable, so presumably they are
2019-06-03T18:23:07 < Mangy_Dog> thank you zyp
2019-06-03T18:23:17 < Mangy_Dog> but yeah i couldnt see anything that indicated either way in the datasheet
2019-06-03T18:24:03 < zyp> I don't think the IO blocks themselves for those ports are any different either, it's just that they are powered from the backup domain which has limited current available
2019-06-03T18:24:36 < Mangy_Dog> thats fine, so i can still do an internal pullup and sink to ground through a button?
2019-06-03T18:24:46 < Mangy_Dog> to detect a drop
2019-06-03T18:24:48 < Mangy_Dog> a press
2019-06-03T18:24:49 < Mangy_Dog> ...
2019-06-03T18:25:05 < zyp> I would be surprised if not
2019-06-03T18:25:06 < karlp> it will even work in standby modes
2019-06-03T18:25:09 < Rickta59> as long as it doesn't exceed 3mA
2019-06-03T18:25:24 < Mangy_Dog> or would they be better suited to be pulled low and detect a high?
2019-06-03T18:25:41 < zyp> I don't think it matters
2019-06-03T18:25:49 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2019-06-03T18:26:06 < zyp> I'd pull up and sink to ground just because ground planes are easily available
2019-06-03T18:26:09 < Rickta59> i find the why always more interesting than the datasheet question
2019-06-03T18:26:38 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2019-06-03T18:27:00 < Rickta59> asking why someone wants to do something turns out to teach me more than the data from the datasheet
2019-06-03T18:27:07 < Mangy_Dog> ahh
2019-06-03T18:27:10 < zyp> Rickta59, yeah, but you're not really helping anybody by making them explain a problem they already have a solution to
2019-06-03T18:27:25 < Rickta59> i'm hear to learn not solve peoples problems :)
2019-06-03T18:27:36 < Rickta59> here
2019-06-03T18:28:05 < Rickta59> often when they explain their problem it also exposes the answer to themselves
2019-06-03T18:28:35 < jpa-> i'm here to feel better than you guys, and it's going great so far!
2019-06-03T18:28:42 < zyp> :D
2019-06-03T18:30:39 < Mangy_Dog> tbh thats where my main gripe came from before... Those kind of awnsers are nothing but ego trips for those saying stuff like that. I have no issue if some one doesnt know or doesnt even want to help... Thats there choice. But to just do stupid quips that are aimed to simple put some one down for simply not knowing... Its like... HOW DARE YOU ASK ME... IM MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOU RAR......
2019-06-03T18:30:43 < Mangy_Dog> that puts my back up
2019-06-03T18:31:12 < Rickta59> why did you think it might not have pull-up or pull-down capability Mangy_Dog ?
2019-06-03T18:31:40 < Mangy_Dog> not entirely sure, just always known those were the nearly useless pins and should be avoided most of the time
2019-06-03T18:31:46 < Mangy_Dog> outside a very select few cases
2019-06-03T18:31:47 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, I disagree, pointing people to the datasheet is often a good starting point
2019-06-03T18:32:08 < Rickta59> the data sheet says "Each of the GPIO pins can be configured by software as output (push-pull or open-drain), as
2019-06-03T18:32:11 < Rickta59> input (with or without pull-up or pull-down) or as peripheral alternate function"
2019-06-03T18:32:12 < Mangy_Dog> very rarely it is actually
2019-06-03T18:32:36 < zyp> teach a man to fish, etc…
2019-06-03T18:32:42 < Mangy_Dog> for the majority of people in a place like this can read a datasheet.... so its best to assume theres a reason theyre nto doing it for some reason
2019-06-03T18:33:04 < Mangy_Dog> i need coffee :/
2019-06-03T18:33:18 < karlp> you already stated the reason was "I was busy, so I wanted someone else to do it"  so....
2019-06-03T18:34:06 < Rickta59> the only time i start looking at specific pins is when they aren't doing what i assume they would do .. aside from PC13/14/15 as I know those have limted drive
2019-06-03T18:34:26 < Rickta59> then I look to see if they are somehow related to jtag pins as those will have default pullup/pulldown features
2019-06-03T18:34:36 < Mangy_Dog> theres also tiems when datasheets are a hindence to trying to find a awnser... Because they can be information overloads, too large to find anything and needle in a haystack thing
2019-06-03T18:34:53 < Mangy_Dog> so asking people a question that might be genurally known
2019-06-03T18:34:58 < Mangy_Dog> shouldnt be any harm in that
2019-06-03T18:35:06 < mawk> which core? I don't have enough backlog
2019-06-03T18:35:12 < Rickta59> in your case, i would have just turned on the pull up and checked to see if it worked
2019-06-03T18:35:24 < Rickta59> a minute
2019-06-03T18:35:26 < Mangy_Dog> stm32f103
2019-06-03T18:35:28 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, stm32 documentation is spread between chip datasheets, family manuals and a ton of appnotes
2019-06-03T18:35:31 < mawk> ah righr
2019-06-03T18:35:34 < Mangy_Dog> c8 or cb i always get them confused
2019-06-03T18:35:56 < mawk> c8 is the common one in chinese stuff
2019-06-03T18:36:16 < mawk> * pills
2019-06-03T18:36:21 < Mangy_Dog> though i read even though the "specs" for flash and ram are different... theyre actually indentical chips 
2019-06-03T18:36:30 < Mangy_Dog> nods im more used to them on the baite maple minis
2019-06-03T18:36:36 < Mangy_Dog> prefer them to bluepills
2019-06-03T18:36:37 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, physical stuff like the pullups would be documented in the datasheet, so pointing you there as a starting point is what I would have done too
2019-06-03T18:37:09 < Mangy_Dog> well like i say i did a wordsearch for pullup in the datasheet it wasnt even mentioned
2019-06-03T18:37:18 < Rickta59> it is pull-up in their doc
2019-06-03T18:37:21 < zyp> yep, and that's why I checked
2019-06-03T18:37:21 < Mangy_Dog> and the pin descriptions didnt mention it
2019-06-03T18:37:42 < Rickta59> page 20 it lays it out
2019-06-03T18:37:48 < Mangy_Dog> pull-uip
2019-06-03T18:37:52 < zyp> I don't mind looking up stuff for people, but I'd rather not do it just because people are too lazy to look themselves
2019-06-03T18:37:54 < Mangy_Dog> well i admit i didnt search that :p
2019-06-03T18:38:14 < Mangy_Dog> like i said i wasnt tryign to be lazy i was just doing several other things
2019-06-03T18:38:26 < zyp> so are everybody else here :)
2019-06-03T18:38:27 < Mangy_Dog> anyway finished my BOM compiling and upset for my wallet on this project
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2019-06-03T19:07:05 < Cracki> Mangy_Dog, I think you're alright. you piss off the right people :P
2019-06-03T19:07:23 < Mangy_Dog> that a good thing? :p
2019-06-03T19:07:40 < Cracki> I'd think so :P
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2019-06-03T19:13:59 < Steffanx> Hi Mangy_Dog . I see you survived another day on IRC.
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2019-06-03T19:16:28 < englishman> brand new SVN install at work
2019-06-03T19:16:35 < englishman> and everyone is being trained on svn
2019-06-03T19:16:46 < Steffanx> Such git
2019-06-03T19:17:08 < Steffanx> Few weeks ago I noticed even altium does git
2019-06-03T19:17:24 < Steffanx> After I added all my libs to a git repo
2019-06-03T19:17:31 < Steffanx> And projects
2019-06-03T19:18:08 < karlp> englishman: back to the future!
2019-06-03T19:18:13 < Steffanx> It added fancy in-altium GUI based version control
2019-06-03T19:18:14 < karlp> englishman: what were they using before?
2019-06-03T19:18:23 < Steffanx> Windows shares..
2019-06-03T19:18:30 < englishman> ^
2019-06-03T19:19:13 < englishman> SVN was installed because "altium uses SVN" then proceeded to dump all altium files in the SVN without using altium SVN and now altium doesn't even use SVN.
2019-06-03T19:19:36 < englishman> plus it was installed for concurrency.
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2019-06-03T19:20:43 < Steffanx> Altium doesn't see the stuff is in a gram
2019-06-03T19:20:48 < Steffanx> Damnit
2019-06-03T19:20:59 < Steffanx> In a repo when  you dont use altium to add it?
2019-06-03T19:21:36 < Steffanx> Worked with git :P
2019-06-03T19:22:30 < englishman> idk. who the fuck uses svn
2019-06-03T19:23:25 < Steffanx> Work does.
2019-06-03T19:24:56 < englishman> you have a conflicted excel sheet. please kill yourself
2019-06-03T19:25:34 < Steffanx> Excel.
2019-06-03T19:25:41 < englishman> lol @ ignoring karlp on your first day
2019-06-03T19:28:19 < Steffanx> I do wonder when karlp snapped. He wasn't semi-bitchy like this before :P
2019-06-03T19:28:56 < karlp> I wasn't?
2019-06-03T19:28:58 < Steffanx> That was dongs's job
2019-06-03T19:29:17 < Steffanx> Nah karlp
2019-06-03T19:30:55 < karlp> hey zyp, for translations, poedit is suggesting nn for nynorks and nb for bokmal, but openwrt (for isntance) just uses "no" for "norwegian"
2019-06-03T19:31:03 < karlp> are they just crazy?
2019-06-03T19:38:18 < englishman> dongs: Mr Wu has a new job https://www.reddit.com/r/PrintedCircuitBoard/comments/bw7m55/im_the_new_jlcpcb_community_liaison_ill_be_at_the/
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2019-06-03T21:27:42 < qyx> wut who uses svn nowadays
2019-06-03T21:27:47 < Thorn> are cheap aliexpress USB U/I/etc meters clones of the more expensive ones ($35+) or are they not as good in some way?
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2019-06-03T21:32:37 < Thorn> for eampple cheap: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32841960017.html expensive: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32606213913.html
2019-06-03T21:33:02 < PaulFertser> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_Kox
2019-06-03T21:34:30 < Rickta59> wonder what is his wife's name
2019-06-03T21:34:45 < boddax> eheh
2019-06-03T21:35:57 < boddax> Tidy_puxy for sure
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2019-06-03T22:03:38 < Cracki> Thorn, the pricy one looks like "someone" designed it, the cheap one doesn't even list any resolutions that I saw
2019-06-03T22:05:05 < Cracki> I'd go for the "designed" one because that one probably has open specs and maybe even a homebrew community like those DPS power supplies and those dso203/213 miniscopes
2019-06-03T22:07:24 < Cracki> wew 10 microvolts resolution at 24 volts range, that needs 22 bits http://www.kaayee.com/product/yzxstudio-zy1280-usb-meter-qc4-pd3-0-mfi-pps/
2019-06-03T22:13:49 < boddax> resolution ok but precision? what reference vref inside?
2019-06-03T22:18:14 < Cracki> says there 0.1%+2d
2019-06-03T22:18:28 < Cracki> for current as well, interestingly
2019-06-03T22:18:42 < Cracki> dunno if that's from whatever adc he uses, or if he measured that
2019-06-03T22:19:05 < Cracki> haven't seen schematics and stuff so who knows...
2019-06-03T22:19:38 < Cracki> if the chinese can make clones of the thing, at the very least someone in a pcb fab leaked the gerbers and placement files
2019-06-03T22:20:48 < boddax> yah always like this
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2019-06-03T22:46:37 < Thorn> zy1280 looks interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb16FOBiJXU
2019-06-03T22:54:23 < Cracki> bling bling
2019-06-03T22:54:47 < Cracki> >all of the fascia
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2019-06-03T23:01:24 < Cracki> looks very nice
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2019-06-03T23:23:16 < karlp> Thorn: i have one of the ruideng's (cheaper tahn yxz, not uber cheap) and it works well for my tests.  
2019-06-03T23:23:52 < karlp> I got the bluetooh one, as it can be polled from sigrok too.
2019-06-03T23:24:17 < karlp> what I'd _hoped_ for was that you could comunicate with it via usb, but it's not  a hub internally, it's just sensing, so there's no usb comms.
2019-06-03T23:24:36 < karlp> the non-bt ones need an extra usb microcable if you want to get the data other than just looking at the screen
2019-06-03T23:25:22 < karlp> I've not done much more than test some cables and chargers to quickly sort 500mA limited lies and ones that drop too much voltage.
2019-06-03T23:27:37 < Thorn> how do they measure cable resistance / voltage drop btw? wouldn't you need to measure voltage at both ends of the cable?
2019-06-03T23:27:39 < karlp> I've got this one: https://tech.scargill.net/ruideng-um25c-usb-colour-display-tester/
2019-06-03T23:27:52 < karlp> yeah, you do cable test with two measurements,
2019-06-03T23:27:58 < karlp> it's in the user manual
2019-06-03T23:28:24 < karlp> but it "worked" as far as known bad cables were giving us higher resistances and good ones lower, but I don't have a lot to really directly compare with.
2019-06-03T23:28:55 < Thorn> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32954635163.html
2019-06-03T23:30:30 < karlp> iirc, ruideng had their own store, but yeah, that's their all their stuff
2019-06-03T23:30:53 < karlp> they have a new one for PD stuff too https://www.banggood.com/RUIDENG-TC66TC66C-Type-C-PD-Trigger-USB-Voltage-Ammeter-Capacity-Meter-2-Way-Measurement-Charger-Battery-APP-PC-USB-Tester-p-1447835.html
2019-06-03T23:31:28 < karlp> https://rdtech.aliexpress.com/store/923042
2019-06-03T23:32:49 < karlp> I got one of the ld25 or ld35 (it's at the office) to go with it, to really suck, instead of just relying on a phone for a load.
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2019-06-03T23:33:45 < karlp> there's hd25/35 that pretend to be the different sorts of smart devices too,
2019-06-03T23:34:37 < karlp> I had a really cheap one, but it just hhad volts/amps and was _very_ coarse. worked ok for basic sorting out of "good" stuff from "junk" but depends what you want to do.
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2019-06-03T23:39:14 < Thorn> I want to know how much current my devices are pulling from usb (mostly while charging their batteries)
2019-06-03T23:40:07 < Thorn> and why my phone barely charges with one cable but charges quickly with another (the new ugreen one)
2019-06-03T23:41:02 < englishman> Thorn: why not get the FLIR one
2019-06-03T23:41:19 < Thorn> what is that
2019-06-03T23:41:22 < englishman> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/flir-extech/USB200/USB200-ND/9655177
2019-06-03T23:42:10 < Thorn> hm seems cheap but probably not as many features
2019-06-03T23:48:37 < Cracki> if you want to be *cheap*, grab some usb sockets, plug in the cable, then push an amp through it with a lab supply and check voltage
2019-06-03T23:49:21 < Cracki> you'll be measuring contact resistance too but that's as much a problem as shit copper
2019-06-03T23:52:09 < Cracki> sockets on breakouts might not be much cheaper than the cheapest complete tester
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2019-06-03T23:54:12 < Thorn> I do have an A and a micro-B on breakouts already btw
2019-06-03T23:54:37 < Thorn> need to finally start using them
2019-06-03T23:58:52 < karlp> fucking filled the root partition
2019-06-03T23:58:53 < Cracki> fry a cable maybe
2019-06-03T23:58:57 < karlp> stupid thing
2019-06-03T23:59:02 < karlp> I bet it's package update droppings
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2019-06-03T23:59:44 < karlp> $ cd /v-bash: cannot create temp file for here-document: No space left on device
2019-06-03T23:59:50 < karlp> can't even tab complete :)
--- Day changed Tue Jun 04 2019
2019-06-04T00:07:00 < qyx> heh I had the same problem few days ago
2019-06-04T00:07:37 < karlp> serves me right for having a desktop distro root fs on this headless thing
2019-06-04T00:16:55 < zyp> haha
2019-06-04T00:20:09 < karlp> sudo journalctl --disk-usage => another ~gig.
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2019-06-04T00:25:29 < BrainDamage> you can set a limit
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2019-06-04T00:42:27 < karlp> yes, I have done so now.
2019-06-04T00:42:32 < karlp> it was not set.
2019-06-04T00:43:13 < karlp> removed mate-desktop, libreoffice-core, rolled and compressed some out of control logs. gone from 15/15gig used to 7/15gig.  much nicer :)
2019-06-04T00:43:37 < karlp> I _thoughht_ the actual storage disk was full, but it's still got 6gig free.  time to think about a new disk for that soon though
2019-06-04T00:43:49 < aandrew> karlp: for all that work you may as well install windows xp
2019-06-04T00:44:14 < karlp> you can do better than that :)
2019-06-04T00:44:21 < zyp> haha
2019-06-04T00:44:40 < zyp> trick is to just buy an overkill amount of drive space
2019-06-04T00:44:42 < karlp> I only actually noticed this because my phone's auto upload of photos was failing.
2019-06-04T00:44:58 < zyp> not that I do that, but still
2019-06-04T00:45:06 < karlp> yar, this was the emmc root, I thought 16gig should be plenty when it has a 2TB external for "actual storage"
2019-06-04T00:45:16 < zyp> ah
2019-06-04T00:45:29 < zyp> emmc? what device?
2019-06-04T00:45:32 < aandrew> I have a base win7 install snapshotted in esxi, spinning up new ones is easy peasy now
2019-06-04T00:45:35 < karlp> odroid c2
2019-06-04T00:45:57 < zyp> ah
2019-06-04T00:46:14 < karlp> sits beside the router with a usb harddrive for backups, lets me run a few test things that I don't want out on the vps "in da cl0ud" I have 
2019-06-04T00:46:32 < zyp> hmm, rootfs on my server also got quite some gigs of stuff:
2019-06-04T00:46:32 < zyp> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
2019-06-04T00:46:32 < zyp> /dev/sdq1        28G   12G   15G  46% /
2019-06-04T00:46:46 < zyp> some esata ssd
2019-06-04T00:46:53 < karlp> yeah, 32gig emmc wsa quite noticeable more than 16gig when I got this.
2019-06-04T00:47:32 < zyp> I'm not sure they had any smaller esata ssds when I bought that one
2019-06-04T00:47:56 < karlp> I don't think I've ever seen an actual esata device with my own eyes.
2019-06-04T00:48:14 < zyp> wait
2019-06-04T00:48:18 < zyp> msata
2019-06-04T00:48:25 < zyp> or whatever it was called
2019-06-04T00:48:31 < zyp> pci-express form factor
2019-06-04T00:48:39 < zyp> minipcie*
2019-06-04T00:48:59 < karlp> right :)
2019-06-04T00:49:16 < zyp> esata/msata, who cares :p
2019-06-04T00:49:23 < karlp> well, esata was real...
2019-06-04T00:49:28 < zyp> yeah
2019-06-04T00:49:37 < karlp> and msata is now a bad name, because they're pcie, not sata.
2019-06-04T00:49:40 < zyp> got a bunch of esata ports, but I've also never actually seen a device
2019-06-04T00:49:42 < karlp> ngff slot :)
2019-06-04T00:49:49 < zyp> no, msata is sata
2019-06-04T00:49:52 < karlp> or is m2 preferred.
2019-06-04T00:50:06 < zyp> I think m2 is more common
2019-06-04T00:50:30 < zyp> also, doesn't m2 also support both sata and pcie modes?
2019-06-04T00:50:39  * karlp shrugs
2019-06-04T00:50:44 < karlp> the slot might, but not all the drives do,
2019-06-04T00:50:53 < zyp> true
2019-06-04T00:51:17 < karlp> which i think is why they wanted people to stop talking about it being an "msata" drive/slot because it might not be.
2019-06-04T00:51:23 < zyp> have yet to see m2 too
2019-06-04T00:51:39 < karlp> isn't m2 just another name for ngff?
2019-06-04T00:51:55 < zyp> I think so, but I've yet to see it
2019-06-04T00:51:59 < zyp> and m2 != msata
2019-06-04T00:52:05 < karlp> oh, m2 is the new name for ngff
2019-06-04T00:52:25 < karlp> so all the "nvme" pcie stuff
2019-06-04T00:52:29 < zyp> I haven't bought any new computers since 2013
2019-06-04T00:52:46 < karlp> yeah, I got a new one last year, firs ttime since abotu 2013.
2019-06-04T00:53:14 < zyp> I still see no point in replacing neither my 2012 workstation or my 2013 server
2019-06-04T00:53:38 < zyp> my 2011 laptop is a bit dated, but I don't use it enough to really justify spending on a new
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2019-06-04T00:53:57 < aandrew> zyp: sounds familliar. my daily driver is a 2012 11" air (i7, 8GB) that has been absolutely amazing. I'd *like* more RAM and I'd *like* more pixels but neither of these are must haves
2019-06-04T00:54:17 < aandrew> and the workstation is an 8 year old i7-960 hackintosh with 24G of RAM
2019-06-04T00:54:22 < aandrew> I'm not CPU bound on anything
2019-06-04T00:54:26 < zyp> yeah
2019-06-04T00:54:39 < karlp> work laptop is disappoitn because it's not cpu bound, except that it is, because it's not got a good enough thermal design, 
2019-06-04T00:54:48 < zyp> my workstation is also an i7 with 32G RAM
2019-06-04T00:54:53 < karlp> so big jobs throttle down :|
2019-06-04T00:54:56 < zyp> hehe
2019-06-04T00:55:05 < zyp> my work laptop is also terrible
2019-06-04T00:55:13 < aandrew> altium and FPGA shits are on VMs on a dual xeon (L5520) with a bunch of RAM, but I want more RAM on that
2019-06-04T00:55:19 < karlp> so on paper it's like 3-4 generations newer than my old work laptop, but  in practice it's like ~10-15% faster.
2019-06-04T00:55:42 < aandrew> right, I would LOVE to upgrade the laptop but apple has simply not put anything out since 2015 that I'd even consider
2019-06-04T00:55:51 < zyp> not sure exactly what's terrible about it, but building is fucking slow, I think part of it is windows sucks
2019-06-04T00:56:16 < karlp> in othe rnews, I snapped the chain on my bike today.
2019-06-04T00:56:19 < aandrew> I've ever ever ever had a laptop last like this one has though. for me the standard was ~2y before it absolutely falls apart, but ~1y, maybe 1.5y utnil it was just sad
2019-06-04T00:56:24 < zyp> ouch
2019-06-04T00:56:26 < karlp> so tomorrow I get to pay full local prices for one, and a chain breaker
2019-06-04T00:56:35 < aandrew> lovely. how'd you manage that
2019-06-04T00:56:39 < karlp> despite thinking a few months ago, "it's probably time to replace my chain, I should order one from china now"
2019-06-04T00:56:42 < zyp> aandrew, wear?
2019-06-04T00:56:44 < karlp> aandrew:just wear
2019-06-04T00:56:47 < aandrew> ah
2019-06-04T00:57:05 < karlp> I ride every day to the new office, and 2-3 times a week to the old office, year round, with salted roads and footpaths
2019-06-04T00:57:25 < zyp> you haven't had problems with it grinding and skipping teeth?
2019-06-04T00:57:37 < zyp> just went from fine to snapped?
2019-06-04T00:57:37 < karlp> a bit, that's why I was like, "I should buy a new chain" :)
2019-06-04T00:57:41 < zyp> hehe
2019-06-04T00:58:21 < karlp> still, first one I've snapped myself.
2019-06-04T00:58:33 < karlp> normally I've replaced them when they've been grinding like all get out, but never snapped
2019-06-04T00:58:44 < karlp> this wsan't _that_ bad, so I thought I had a bit more time on it.
2019-06-04T00:58:48 < zyp> I've only replaced one once :p
2019-06-04T00:59:02 < zyp> I should bike more
2019-06-04T00:59:15 < karlp> how far is it to work from the new house?
2019-06-04T00:59:27 < zyp> not far, I'm just lazy
2019-06-04T00:59:45 < karlp> (other fun thing with the odroid is that "sudo reboot" doesn't, it just does a shutdown. and I have to actually pull the plug and repower it to reboot)
2019-06-04T01:00:53 < zyp> 5.5km according to google maps
2019-06-04T01:02:19 < zyp> although currently I'm working in a mechatronics lab connected to the uni I went to, so 4.2km
2019-06-04T01:03:46 < zyp> people are working on a prototype based on the stuff I'm working on there, so I expect to spend most of the foreseeable time there
2019-06-04T01:04:17 < zyp> so I moved my entire docking station and monitors and everything over there last week
2019-06-04T01:07:55 < zyp> pretty cool place, it has the «let's buy all the fancy expensive toys we can find»-vibe
2019-06-04T01:07:59 < zyp> https://mil-as.no/media/1116/20180222-mil-technology-portfolio.pdf
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2019-06-04T01:17:04 < Cracki> >workshop
2019-06-04T01:17:15 < Cracki> >you can eat from the floor
2019-06-04T01:17:35 < Cracki> pics must have been from when they got it new
2019-06-04T01:17:54 < zyp> entire place is fairly new
2019-06-04T01:19:11 < Cracki> it says "project hotel" there. is this for rent? how does that work, do they have a "grounds keeper" to change bedsheets and milling bits?
2019-06-04T01:19:43 < zyp> yeah, one of our project partners is renting space there
2019-06-04T01:19:45 < Cracki> lol they have a sauna
2019-06-04T01:20:06 < Steffanx> Bike as in bicycle karlp? Bicycle chains aren't that expensive right? Or are chains in Iceland the new gold?
2019-06-04T01:20:17 < zyp> Steffanx, was wondering the same
2019-06-04T01:20:44 < zyp> even a proper shimano chain here doesn't break the bank
2019-06-04T01:22:26 < zyp> Cracki, haha, nice
2019-06-04T01:22:59 < Cracki> so many toys... that must be some kind of tech hub for this to be profitable
2019-06-04T01:23:11 < zyp> like I said, it's connected to the uni
2019-06-04T01:23:18 < Cracki> I'm blown away
2019-06-04T01:23:34 < zyp> academia likes blowing money on expensive toys
2019-06-04T01:23:44 < Steffanx> And the uni has to spend money otherwise their budget will be lower the next year..
2019-06-04T01:23:47 < Cracki> cute, they have those kuka centaurs
2019-06-04T01:23:52 < zyp> and then they've organized this as a separate company so they can rent them out also
2019-06-04T01:24:02 < zyp> yeah, bunch of robots and shit there
2019-06-04T01:24:49 < Cracki> yeh if I were some prof of some institute, I'd not just do industry projects, I'd maybe see about renting out time on all the expensive but necessary gear
2019-06-04T01:26:20 < zyp> oh, here's the shit I'm working on: https://www.facebook.com/MechatronicsInnovationLab/videos/271445693780317/
2019-06-04T01:26:32 < zyp> well, half of it
2019-06-04T01:26:42 < zyp> the half that I'm not working on :)
2019-06-04T01:26:48 < Cracki> big winch
2019-06-04T01:26:51 < zyp> yeah
2019-06-04T01:27:12 < Cracki> I can hear 8 khz sound
2019-06-04T01:27:15 < zyp> hybrid electric/hydraulic, to simulate varying loads and shit
2019-06-04T01:27:28 < zyp> video only has the electric stuff hooked up
2019-06-04T01:27:33 < Cracki> why do they run their PWM or whatever at 8 khz, that's right where everyone can hear it AND it's painful
2019-06-04T01:27:46 < Cracki> kuka does it too, drives me nuts. at least go above 20 khz
2019-06-04T01:27:47 < zyp> probably because that's the best efficiency tradeoff?
2019-06-04T01:27:59 < zyp> also idk
2019-06-04T01:27:59 < Cracki> perhaps
2019-06-04T01:28:14 < Cracki> kuka does 8 khz because that's the best they can get out of a core2duo and ethercat
2019-06-04T01:28:15 < zyp> I didn't watch the video with sound, don't have speakers on this computer at the moment :p
2019-06-04T01:28:27 < zyp> and I haven't been there while they've been running it
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2019-06-04T01:30:59 < Cracki> hmmm that mechatronics stuff gives me the desire to make a few harmonic drives for tiy robot arm
2019-06-04T01:31:00 < Cracki> *diy
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2019-06-04T02:14:00 < aandrew> so dongs aside, what do you guys use for stm32 dev? ms dev whatever with arm-gcc cross tools? 
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2019-06-04T02:27:28 < Cracki> I'm content with truestudio for now. it was acting up at first and I never found out why, but it works now, tolerably.
2019-06-04T02:28:01 < Cracki> I'm certainly not loving it
2019-06-04T02:28:30 < Cracki> eclipse's peculiarities are only a good fit for java.
2019-06-04T02:29:22 < fenugrec> hodge-podge of codeblocks, gcc-arm and make here... not great but functional. Never got around to trying to integrate gdb in the ide
2019-06-04T02:30:14 < Cracki> *cube IDE because >For new designs we recommend using STM32CubeIDE instead of Atollic TrueSTUDIO. There will be no new releases of TrueSTUDIO.
2019-06-04T02:30:58 < Cracki> I'll probably have a look at ozone sooner or later since that got some positive words around here
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2019-06-04T02:46:33 < kakimir> hello fellows
2019-06-04T02:53:36 < Cracki> hallowed are the ori
2019-06-04T03:02:14 < kakimir> what is your cryptic message?
2019-06-04T03:02:49 < kakimir> what is ori?
2019-06-04T03:03:09 < kakimir> in finnish it means stallion
2019-06-04T03:03:50 < kakimir> fukken youtube is ruined
2019-06-04T03:04:01 < kakimir> can I please listen 2 songs without interrupts
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2019-06-04T03:13:34 < Cracki> you also LOVE youtube? you must get to know Nasim Najafi Aghdam!
2019-06-04T03:23:07 < kakimir> know what?
2019-06-04T03:25:46 < kakimir> oh
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2019-06-04T03:37:16  * karlp still uses netbeans 8.2 (netbeans 9/10 haven't restored c/c++ after the donation to apache) with gcc-arm, make and openocd.  (and orbuculum for swo stuff)
2019-06-04T03:37:30 < karlp> I tried vscode, but it seemed like far too many workarounds
2019-06-04T03:37:54 < karlp> never been happy with atollic/cubeide
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2019-06-04T04:20:17 < aandrew> yeah I like ozone
2019-06-04T04:21:47 < Cracki> coming from atmel studio, I'm used to the IDE being capable of (1) programming and letting it run (2) programming and then breaking into main
2019-06-04T04:22:27 < Cracki> anyone have that for stm32/cortex-m? truestudio doesn't do the first one unless you add some configuration to it, which I find ridiculous
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2019-06-04T04:23:23 < Cracki> if there's any benefit to flashing from a terminal and connecting to a running gdb in another terminal, from the IDE that has no control over either, I'd like to hear it
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2019-06-04T04:24:16 < rajkosto> i use mcu arm eclipse openocd/jlink integration
2019-06-04T04:24:25 < rajkosto> STCubeIDE has the same thing for stlink
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2019-06-04T04:41:58 < s34n_> is there a best command-line tool to use in linux with the st-link v2?
2019-06-04T04:42:31 < s34n_> I have one tutorial that points me towards https://github.com/texane/stlink
2019-06-04T04:43:06 < s34n_> But then there's the stmduino tool, stm32flash
2019-06-04T04:43:15 < s34n_> and there are probably others
2019-06-04T04:43:22 < rajkosto> stm32flash is for uart flashing through bootloader
2019-06-04T04:43:32 < rajkosto> stlink is a debugger and works regardless
2019-06-04T04:43:43 < rajkosto> you interface with it usualyl through openocd and its integrations with gdb etc
2019-06-04T04:45:43 < s34n_> thanks
2019-06-04T04:47:13 < s34n_> I've never done embedded work. I'm trying to dip my toes in with an stm32f103.
2019-06-04T04:47:29 < s34n_> So I have to figure out how to set up my environment
2019-06-04T04:52:30 < aandrew> hm, vs code isn't too bad. you still ahve to run make from a terminal but can bind it to a key I guess, and cortex-debug extension can use damn near any debugger
2019-06-04T04:52:34 < aandrew> gonna direct him to use that
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2019-06-04T04:53:23 < aandrew> s34n_: I have converted all my st-links to jlinks. I have had shit luck with stlink in the past but admittedly it was with shitty adapters
2019-06-04T04:53:37 < aandrew> not sure if the adapters on the discovery boards are better, and I have a stlinkv3 that I've yet to use as well now
2019-06-04T04:54:15 < aandrew> there is also "stm32cubeprogrammer" which works with stlink and is multiplatform
2019-06-04T04:54:29 < aandrew> it's all web 2.0 fancypants but it is functional and the supported way to use stlink 
2019-06-04T04:59:41 < Cracki> jlink OB you mean?
2019-06-04T04:59:51 < Cracki> this alternative firmware for st-links
2019-06-04T05:00:55 < Cracki> what pin does it use for virtual com port?
2019-06-04T05:00:56 < aandrew> yes
2019-06-04T05:01:05 < aandrew> it uses whatever stlink uses
2019-06-04T05:01:20 < rajkosto> jlink has no virtual COM port support
2019-06-04T05:01:37 < rajkosto> and if you flash your firmware of stlink to jlink you lose COM port support
2019-06-04T05:01:38 < aandrew> this is not true
2019-06-04T05:01:40 < Cracki> I'm looking for what pin stlinks use for vcp... still looking
2019-06-04T05:01:49 < rajkosto> aandrew, i did
2019-06-04T05:01:57 < Cracki> seggers site says it does vcp
2019-06-04T05:01:57 < aandrew> I have a dozen nrf51 and nrf52 dongles/dks and they all have vcp support
2019-06-04T05:02:00 < rajkosto> and even "restoring" the firmware using the official tool just flashed back a non-VCP supporting stlink firmware
2019-06-04T05:02:18 < aandrew> I have to check again if the stm32discovery supportss it
2019-06-04T05:02:20 < rajkosto> you have to do the hack way to get your VCP back on stlink
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2019-06-04T05:07:11 < Cracki> according to this, it's conceivable that a random stlink v2.0's unused PA3/PA2 can do serial, if segger doesn't check too closely and puts vcp-capable firmware on it
2019-06-04T05:07:14 < Cracki> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/424757/add-serial-interface-to-st-link-clone
2019-06-04T05:07:46 < rajkosto> yes
2019-06-04T05:07:51 < rajkosto> i have it working with stlink firmware
2019-06-04T05:07:56 < rajkosto> but if you run the jlink utility to "convert" it
2019-06-04T05:08:00 < rajkosto> it loses the functionality
2019-06-04T05:08:10 < rajkosto> and running the jlink utility to "convert it back" restores non VCP capable stlink firmware
2019-06-04T05:08:18 < Cracki> uh, "working"? you mean v2.1 firmware on v2.0 hardware/clone?
2019-06-04T05:08:35 < rajkosto> v2.1 is just new bootloader
2019-06-04T05:08:51 < Cracki> where did that leak
2019-06-04T05:08:58 < rajkosto> you cant run the v2.1 firmares if you dont have v2.1 bootloader
2019-06-04T05:09:06 < Cracki> sure gimme
2019-06-04T05:09:09 < rajkosto> and the VCP/MASS firmwares are v2.1 only
2019-06-04T05:09:41 < Cracki> ah, this lujji person has articles on v2.1
2019-06-04T05:09:45 < rajkosto> yes
2019-06-04T05:09:59 < Cracki> fancy
2019-06-04T05:10:13 < rajkosto> Unprotected-2-1-Bootloader.bin
2019-06-04T05:10:34 < Cracki> and all that happened in 2016!
2019-06-04T05:11:04 < rajkosto> after flashing bootloader the java stlink firmware update utility lets you pick which one you want to flash
2019-06-04T05:12:02 < Cracki> found the github repo with 2.0 and 2.1 (un)protected bins
2019-06-04T05:12:04 < rajkosto> so just flash the VCP/MASS one
2019-06-04T05:12:34 < Cracki> I'll need to bodge my clone some more then
2019-06-04T05:12:42 < Cracki> never gonna need SWIM I think
2019-06-04T05:17:44 < rajkosto> the MASS mode is pretty cool for newbies i guess
2019-06-04T05:17:48 < rajkosto> you just copy your firmware.bin on there
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2019-06-04T05:55:46 < aandrew> lol
2019-06-04T05:55:52 < aandrew> Encryption key was “--worst HAL libraries--” “best performance”.
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2019-06-04T06:25:06 < aandrew> so is all the fuss about cloning stlinks just so we can make cheap jlinks?
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2019-06-04T06:59:56 < mawk> that's the key for stlink upgrader java tool aandrew right
2019-06-04T07:00:06 < mawk> so just for software that goes on stlink
2019-06-04T07:00:12 < mawk> it's still the same key for stlink v3?
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2019-06-04T12:25:23 < dongs> MDK528.EXE (818,553K) 
2019-06-04T12:25:24 < dongs> Tuesday, May 28, 2019
2019-06-04T12:25:26 < dongs> new keil
2019-06-04T12:25:28 < dongs> lets hope sucks less
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2019-06-04T12:36:19 < karlp> rajkosto spewing falsehoods and misconceptions again I see....
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2019-06-04T13:21:13 < englishman> seems to be typical of this channel now
2019-06-04T13:21:18 < englishman> blind leading the blind
2019-06-04T13:22:42 < zyp> haha
2019-06-04T13:24:02 < englishman> zyp, 2014 model S 85 with autopilot and winter package, 40k eur y/n
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2019-06-04T13:26:03 < zyp> englishman, hmm, I haven't looked much at used teslas
2019-06-04T13:26:05 < karlp> man, one of those days.  a can ping b. b can't ping a.  both connected to a 100meg switch, nothing else connected.
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2019-06-04T13:26:24 < englishman> zyp, i figure their prices will drop off soon as rich people keep their cars 4-5 years
2019-06-04T13:26:26 < dongs> disable windows firewall
2019-06-04T13:26:45 < karlp> on which windows computer? :)
2019-06-04T13:26:49 < englishman> that one has 60k km
2019-06-04T13:26:56 < karlp> something screwy happening here.
2019-06-04T13:26:59 < zyp> looks like they start around 30k eur here
2019-06-04T13:27:05 < zyp> https://www.finn.no/car/used/search.html?make=0.8078&sales_form=1&sort=2
2019-06-04T13:27:10 < englishman> same here but no autopilot
2019-06-04T13:27:53 < englishman> plus there are different cersions
2019-06-04T13:28:08 < zyp> yeah, I don't know much about that
2019-06-04T13:28:34 < dongs> how busted is teh battery 4-5 years later and after 200k km tho?
2019-06-04T13:28:39 < englishman> not very
2019-06-04T13:28:42 < englishman> they did their homework
2019-06-04T13:28:44 < englishman> unlike NISSAN
2019-06-04T13:28:50 < zyp> personally I think I'd rather look at a new TM3 than an old TMS that has depreciated to the same price
2019-06-04T13:28:55 < englishman> nissan can't even sell their battery division for pennies on the dollar they suck so bad
2019-06-04T13:29:16 < englishman> ah, i have the other mindset
2019-06-04T13:29:19 < dongs> enjoy your fucking brokebitch interior in your fucking tesla model <whatever>
2019-06-04T13:29:20 < englishman> more car, same bux
2019-06-04T13:29:30 < zyp> but is it?
2019-06-04T13:29:34 < englishman> yeah for a 140k car it's pretty poor
2019-06-04T13:29:41 < englishman> but im not going to pay 140k
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2019-06-04T13:29:52 < englishman> yes it's much bigger
2019-06-04T13:29:54 < englishman> and has a dash
2019-06-04T13:30:02 < dongs> have you looked at nissan e+ with like 450km range
2019-06-04T13:30:08 < englishman> and i do not like the phonekey thing at all
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2019-06-04T13:30:20 < englishman> yeah dongs
2019-06-04T13:30:22 < englishman> i have a leaf
2019-06-04T13:30:26 < englishman> and i would not buy another
2019-06-04T13:30:30 < englishman> def not at new prices
2019-06-04T13:30:30 < dongs> you have old leaf tho
2019-06-04T13:30:34 < zyp> haha
2019-06-04T13:30:34 < englishman> same shit exactly
2019-06-04T13:30:37 < englishman> but bigger battery
2019-06-04T13:30:43 < englishman> like they changed the bumpers
2019-06-04T13:30:50 < englishman> battery is still aircooled
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2019-06-04T13:30:58 < englishman> chemistry is the same
2019-06-04T13:31:08 < zyp> I went to sweden along with some friends in a 2018 leaf a few weeks ago
2019-06-04T13:31:24 < englishman> kona electric is better on paper in that price range
2019-06-04T13:31:31 < zyp> yeah, on paper
2019-06-04T13:31:43 < zyp> hyundai makes nice cars on paper, but they suck at delivering
2019-06-04T13:31:56 < englishman> idk my dad bought the non-ev one and he likes nice stuff
2019-06-04T13:32:28 < englishman> one thing i have heard is the kona ev is super slow
2019-06-04T13:32:39 < zyp> I mean, if I go order a kona now, if I even can, I don't think I'll get the car until next year or something
2019-06-04T13:32:49 < englishman> you might not like the model 3 trunk
2019-06-04T13:32:55 < englishman> it's large but the opening is tiny
2019-06-04T13:33:07 < zyp> one of my other friends got a kona recently, ordered like a year ago
2019-06-04T13:33:09 < englishman> so moving 1 ton of bricks would be hard
2019-06-04T13:33:17 < zyp> well, it can tow
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2019-06-04T13:34:25 < englishman> hard no on that for me
2019-06-04T13:34:54 < zyp> I'd rather get a TMX for towing though
2019-06-04T13:35:19 < englishman> id agree but the prices are much higher. and i didn't like it as much as the s
2019-06-04T13:35:32 < zyp> I've yet to drive either
2019-06-04T13:36:03 < zyp> I've tried most other EVs on the market here except the super new ones, but not yet tesla
2019-06-04T13:36:58 < rajkosto> EXPLODING KNEES
2019-06-04T13:40:10 < englishman> new model 3 with the selfdriving is 33.9keur
2019-06-04T13:40:21 < englishman> not a whole lot less
2019-06-04T13:40:25 < englishman> maybe i need to try the s again
2019-06-04T13:40:38 < englishman> thats the smaller 54kWh battery tho
2019-06-04T13:41:20 < englishman> the free super charging on the older models is nice too
2019-06-04T13:42:06 < zyp> how much did the newer ones have included?
2019-06-04T13:42:10 < englishman> zero
2019-06-04T13:42:34 < zyp> really? last I checked it was a given amount per year included for free
2019-06-04T13:42:41 < englishman> yeah that was a while ago
2019-06-04T13:42:49 < englishman> and not on the model 3
2019-06-04T13:43:14 < zyp> ah, yeah
2019-06-04T13:43:27 < englishman> 150kW recharging is zyppy
2019-06-04T13:43:27 < zyp> ordered before nov. 2 2018, 400 kWh/year
2019-06-04T13:44:16 < qyx> thats like 50e free for 30k car?
2019-06-04T13:44:28 < englishman> now it's 44c/min >60kW 22c/min <60kW beavercents so .29/.14 eur
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2019-06-04T13:46:03 < englishman> which is pretty expensive and not that much less than burning gas
2019-06-04T13:46:20 < zyp> norway's 1.7 NOK/kWh, which is pretty cheap
2019-06-04T13:47:12 < zyp> tesla does what, 20 kWh/100km?
2019-06-04T13:47:18 < zyp> so 0.34 NOK/km
2019-06-04T13:48:24 < rajkosto> daylight electricity here is 1/4 the price of that
2019-06-04T13:48:44 < zyp> when I fast charge my car, I pay like 2.5 NOK/min which works out to 3.5-4 NOK/kWh
2019-06-04T13:49:05 < englishman> last trip in the model 3 was 186 Wh/km or 5.37 km/kWh on the highway
2019-06-04T13:49:12 < zyp> rajkosto, yeah, but when you fast charge you don't only pay for the electricity, but also the charger
2019-06-04T13:49:36 < englishman> yeah those chargers cost a ton
2019-06-04T13:50:52 < englishman> so 18.6 kWh/100km at 125km/h dry and flat
2019-06-04T13:52:12 < rajkosto> the fast chargers use themselves up ?
2019-06-04T13:52:19 < englishman> wut
2019-06-04T13:53:27 < englishman> at 15 nok/L that is the equivalent of 2.26 L/100km efficiency
2019-06-04T13:53:30 < englishman> not bad
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2019-06-04T14:00:47 < karlp> rajkosto: petrol only costs X/l, why can't I rent a car for that price?
2019-06-04T14:01:01 < rajkosto> why cant you ?
2019-06-04T14:01:14 < rajkosto> anything is possible if you just beLIEve in yourself
2019-06-04T14:01:21 < karlp> ok, part of this is this rtl8153 usb dongle. 
2019-06-04T14:01:35  * karlp thinks the bin is the best place for this, even if the usb3 hub part of it works ok.
2019-06-04T14:01:42 < englishman> btw renting a $80k cad tesla and going on a road trip cost the same as renting a dodge caravan and paying for gas
2019-06-04T14:01:58 < englishman> was p nice
2019-06-04T14:02:42 < rajkosto> galaxy brain answer to that is just buying a used up UK car at auction for 1-100 gbp that has great diesel mileage
2019-06-04T14:03:07 < englishman> yeah that is totally the same market
2019-06-04T14:03:44 < rajkosto> r u not an english man
2019-06-04T14:04:03 < englishman> how much money per month do i need to live like a king in your country?
2019-06-04T14:04:13 < rajkosto>  what you got right now
2019-06-04T14:04:13 < englishman> and what are the visa requirements for retirees
2019-06-04T14:04:35 < rajkosto> 1. have money
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2019-06-04T17:13:56 < phr3ak> can I use debug functions with an stm32 board that does not have rst line?
2019-06-04T17:14:10 < englishman> yes
2019-06-04T17:14:45 < phr3ak> and what is the drawback?
2019-06-04T17:15:09 < dongs> so uh
2019-06-04T17:15:15 < dongs> im looking at F302VC RM
2019-06-04T17:15:23 < dongs> and 302xB/C is supposed to have
2019-06-04T17:15:30 < dongs> TIM3
2019-06-04T17:15:42 < dongs> but
2019-06-04T17:15:44 < dongs> i power it up
2019-06-04T17:15:49 < dongs> and all registers are zero
2019-06-04T17:15:51 < dongs> so the fuck
2019-06-04T17:16:01 < dongs> oh, isee why
2019-06-04T17:16:09 < englishman> did you set the clock
2019-06-04T17:16:17 < dongs> i powered up APB1 periph with hm 302xB/C is supposed to have TIm3
2019-06-04T17:16:17 < dongs> 14:14 < dongs> err what
2019-06-04T17:16:21 < dongs> 14:14 < dongs> err whaterr
2019-06-04T17:16:33 < dongs> with APB2ClockCmd
2019-06-04T17:16:35 < phr3ak> https://www.ebay.de/itm/STM32F407VGT6-ARM-Cortex-M4-32bit-MCU-Core-Entwicklung-Board-STM32F4Discovery/152705069589
2019-06-04T17:17:26 < Rickta59> not even looking at the schematic, i'm guessing there is a reset pin on the jtag header
2019-06-04T17:17:44 < dongs> what is 'reset line'?
2019-06-04T17:17:50 < phr3ak> nrst
2019-06-04T17:17:57 < englishman> isn't that kinda expensive
2019-06-04T17:18:02 < englishman> why not just get a nucleo
2019-06-04T17:18:14 < phr3ak> i need 1MB flash
2019-06-04T17:18:22 < phr3ak> 40xVG
2019-06-04T17:18:31 < Rickta59> the little line over the reset pin dongs 
2019-06-04T17:19:16 < dongs> anyway
2019-06-04T17:19:26 < dongs> you dont need nrst for swd
2019-06-04T17:19:35 < dongs> you only need it if you really fucked up and need to hard reset
2019-06-04T17:19:41 < dongs> or like disabled jtag pins at runtime etc.
2019-06-04T17:19:54 < dongs> but since it DOES have the arm jtag header on it what makes you think reset isnt there
2019-06-04T17:21:47 < phr3ak> is that black connector the jtag header?
2019-06-04T17:22:46 < englishman> might want to ask the manufacturer for a datasheet
2019-06-04T17:23:28 < englishman> they used full size debug connector and SMT usb so they clearly have no idea what they are doing
2019-06-04T17:23:36 < englishman> as is typical of Chinese cloners
2019-06-04T17:24:19 < dongs> phr3ak: yea
2019-06-04T17:24:21 < phr3ak> i see thanks I thought the jtag is 5 pins only.
2019-06-04T17:24:26 < phr3ak> ok I see now
2019-06-04T17:24:37 < dongs> no, proper jtag is that 2x10 thing
2019-06-04T17:24:50 < dongs> whether they have all pins broken out on it or not is another story, better ask for schematic
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2019-06-04T17:38:10 < dongs> should i do xor bitmask thing for casual 100khz software pwm or not worth it
2019-06-04T17:38:27 < dongs> or just setting BSRR/BRR in every update
2019-06-04T17:38:39 < dongs> i dont really care for performance that much
2019-06-04T17:38:42 < bitmask> always and me, I want to be included
2019-06-04T17:40:28 < dongs> hmm i guess its gonna touch bsrr anyway on every loop
2019-06-04T17:41:27 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NYGYN1T/
2019-06-04T17:41:29 < bitmask> that thing decent?
2019-06-04T17:41:55 < bitmask> I'm not expecting miraculous at $50
2019-06-04T17:42:04 < bitmask> but better than calipers
2019-06-04T17:42:36 < dongs> uh lol why not just get $10 hobbyking thing that does 0.1mm
2019-06-04T17:42:56 < bitmask> this does .002
2019-06-04T17:43:16 < bitmask> well, id guess double what they claim
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2019-06-04T17:52:13 < jadew> bitmask, yeah, I think they're decent
2019-06-04T17:52:21 < bitmask> k
2019-06-04T17:52:30 < jadew> not sure they're worth $50 tho
2019-06-04T17:52:49 < bitmask> ive seen cheaper ones, I dont remember why I saved this link
2019-06-04T17:53:04 < jadew> do you need the precision tho?
2019-06-04T17:53:18 < jadew> because if you don't, a good caliper will serve you better
2019-06-04T17:53:24 < bitmask> not really, I just wanted something a bit more reliable than my calipers
2019-06-04T17:53:39 < jadew> so... a better caliper? :)
2019-06-04T17:53:50 < bitmask> heh yea maybe, I think better calipers are more than $50 though
2019-06-04T17:54:23 < jadew> yeah...
2019-06-04T17:55:27 < bitmask> I'll wait a bit and experiment, every time I grab my calipers I'll see if the shape of the micrometer will work, if I think Id use it enough then Ill consider it again
2019-06-04T17:55:59 < jadew> a micrometer is not as versatile as a caliper
2019-06-04T17:56:13 < jadew> it takes more time to measure something
2019-06-04T17:56:14 < bitmask> definitely not, thats why I want to make sure id even be able to use it for most of the stuff id do
2019-06-04T17:56:19 < jadew> the things it can measure are more limited
2019-06-04T17:56:20 < bitmask> I dont mind the time
2019-06-04T17:58:50 < jadew> how much precision do you need?
2019-06-04T17:58:56 < jadew> and what caliper do you have now?
2019-06-04T18:01:58 < bitmask> maybe its just my method of measuring, its hard to get a consistent measurement when the object doesnt have long flat sides.  so if you just use the tips of the caliper you have to make sure its aligned on the object or you are measuring at an angle
2019-06-04T18:02:21 < jadew> obviously
2019-06-04T18:02:49 < jadew> a micrometer won't help you there
2019-06-04T18:02:53 < bitmask> I know its obvious :) but I figured a micrometer would be easier to measure things like that
2019-06-04T18:03:11 < jadew> what can fit in a micrometer also fits in a caliper
2019-06-04T18:03:20 < jadew> but you have to measure towards the base
2019-06-04T18:03:32 < jadew> http://5.12.187.158/stuff/gauge/50mm.jpg
2019-06-04T18:04:20 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HP78SU4/
2019-06-04T18:04:47 < bitmask> yea I guess I just gotta put some thought into how I measure stuff
2019-06-04T18:05:20 < jadew> I hear these are good: https://www.amazon.com/iGaging-ABSOLUTE-Digital-Electronic-Caliper/dp/B00INL0BTS/
2019-06-04T18:05:46 < jadew> (and relatively inexpensive)
2019-06-04T18:06:16 < bitmask> hmm
2019-06-04T18:07:34 < mawk> since I ordered on RS with my own company id number RS sold my data and I receive chinese scam email
2019-06-04T18:07:36 < bitmask> heh $10 for fractions
2019-06-04T18:07:45 < mawk> "here's the bill for last period, please pay ASAP"
2019-06-04T18:08:02 < mawk> they think I'm a CEO or something
2019-06-04T18:08:40 < karlp> nice reference bar jadew where'd you get that?
2019-06-04T18:09:05 < jadew> karlp, aliexpress, I got two
2019-06-04T18:09:10 < jadew> http://5.12.187.158/stuff/gauge/25mm.jpg
2019-06-04T18:09:31 < bitmask> oh thats your pic, how much are those bars?
2019-06-04T18:09:46 < jadew> bitmask, they were cheap, let me find the link
2019-06-04T18:09:51 < bitmask> ty
2019-06-04T18:10:46 < jadew> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Micrometer-Reference-Rod-50mm-Gauge-Accessorie-Caliper-Micrometer-Inner-Diameter-Outer-Diameter-Calibration-Block-Rod-Bar/32952073907.html
2019-06-04T18:11:03 < bitmask> nice thanks
2019-06-04T18:11:04 < jadew> and https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Outside-Micrometer-25mm-Reference-Rod-Gauge-Accessories-Measuring-Tools/32952109546.html
2019-06-04T18:11:06 < jadew> np
2019-06-04T18:11:53 < karlp> now if only I could batch orders properly from ali to avoid paying the per item charges in iceland :|
2019-06-04T18:12:40 < bitmask> speaking of calibration, are there any relatively cheap voltage references for multimeters?
2019-06-04T18:12:49 < jadew> karlp, ah, it's free shipping to Romania
2019-06-04T18:13:13 < jadew> bitmask, yeah, you can find tons on ebay
2019-06-04T18:13:22 < bitmask> ok
2019-06-04T18:13:30 < karlp> freeshipping doesn't matter 
2019-06-04T18:13:36 < karlp> it's when it arrives here.
2019-06-04T18:16:13 < jadew> karlp, those two orders will come in the same package I think
2019-06-04T18:16:20 < jadew> because they're from the same shop
2019-06-04T18:16:47 < jadew> but yeah, I'd like for aliexpress to have a way of putting everything together too
2019-06-04T18:17:03 < jadew> would spare me some fees
2019-06-04T18:20:47 < dongs> https://tokyo.craigslist.org/vol/d/looking-for-enemies/6904347137.html zyp watcha doin looking for fights 
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2019-06-04T18:28:17 < aandrew> jadew: interesting link
2019-06-04T18:28:37 < aandrew> chinese cal standards for chinese calipers
2019-06-04T18:28:58 < jadew> aandrew, except my caliper is not chinese :P
2019-06-04T18:29:18 < jadew> but yeah, they're pretty good
2019-06-04T18:29:26 < jadew> (surprisingly)
2019-06-04T18:32:13 < karlp> aandrew: got any links to non-china?
2019-06-04T18:32:22 < karlp> I haven't found them, but I'm probably not looking the right way?
2019-06-04T18:32:35 < jadew> karlp, for gauges?
2019-06-04T18:33:18 < jadew> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mitutoyo-167-102-Micrometer-Standard-0-50/dp/B0006J42HC/
2019-06-04T18:33:36 < jadew> +- 0 um :D
2019-06-04T18:34:39 < dongs> > expansion due to body temperature
2019-06-04T18:34:42 < dongs> yeeeeee
2019-06-04T18:34:45 < karlp> still a pretty decent price for reference
2019-06-04T18:34:50 < aandrew> karlp: nope. my calipers are definitely chinese
2019-06-04T18:35:20 < aandrew> I was just chuckling at calibrating a possibly goofy caliper with an unknown/untrusted standard
2019-06-04T18:35:36 < karlp> well....
2019-06-04T18:35:45 < karlp> standard's probably easier to get right?
2019-06-04T18:35:53 < karlp> but yeah, it's always fun to build trust :)
2019-06-04T18:36:06 < karlp> a man with one meter knows something. a man with two is no longer sure.
2019-06-04T18:36:18 < jadew> karlp, looks like you can get them from the UK too: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fityle-Outside-Micrometer-Standard-Measuring/dp/B07LBF84WS/
2019-06-04T18:37:22 < karlp> jadew: doesn't matter where it comes from honestly.
2019-06-04T18:37:51 < karlp> amazon's normally worse too, because they're not actually a global company, they just pretend to be. "No sellers are currently delivering this item to Iceland."
2019-06-04T18:38:02 < karlp> I don't bother looking for things on amazon normally.
2019-06-04T18:38:38 < aandrew> karlp: they changed that recently
2019-06-04T18:39:04 < aandrew> karlp: now you pay once and they split it out ot the individual sotres. I was surprised because it was very recent
2019-06-04T18:39:26 < karlp> that unfortuantely doesn't change a thing when my problem is the per parcel charges on arrival though.
2019-06-04T18:39:45 < karlp> I have no problem with the ali way of making lots of little payments, like fiddly, but no big deal.
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2019-06-04T18:40:27 < karlp> I just want them all to arrive in the same box so that a 3*$4 becomes 3*4 + 10 instead of 3*(4+10)
2019-06-04T18:42:01 < aandrew> karlp: oh I misread. wow you pay per parcel? ugh
2019-06-04T18:42:16 < karlp> 25% vat, plus "handling"
2019-06-04T18:42:24 < karlp> (which recently doubled)
2019-06-04T18:42:49 < karlp> Basically, I get to pay extra to go and pick up the parcel myself, they don't even deliver it anymore.
2019-06-04T18:43:12 < karlp> but hey, someone's got to pay for the post office having bad investments in shrimp  farming...
2019-06-04T18:43:20 < jadew> karlp, I pay the same thing here, it's silly
2019-06-04T18:43:50 < aandrew> canada post here will ding you on imports sometimes, but it's rare
2019-06-04T18:43:57 < aandrew> I think it has to do with what the sender declares it as
2019-06-04T18:46:09 < jadew> :/ I don't have enough money in my company's bank account to buy components
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2019-06-04T19:02:21 < aandrew> tha'ts what credit is for! /s
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2019-06-04T19:41:33 < karlp> input pin rising threshold of 0.7 * 5V means you need 3.5V or greater to get a "high" so _incompatible_ with 3v3 logic right?
2019-06-04T19:41:58 < sync> yes
2019-06-04T19:42:00 < karlp> and a pullup to 5V will just burn down from 5v to 3v3 and try and sink into either the stm32 or the other end
2019-06-04T19:42:35 < karlp> lame.
2019-06-04T19:42:44 < karlp> running 3v3 -> 5V is "not recommended"
2019-06-04T19:44:00 < mawk> why sink into the stm32 if it's input pin ?
2019-06-04T19:44:01 < PaulFertser> Why not pullup + OD?
2019-06-04T19:44:29 < PaulFertser> And I think 5V-tolerant stm32 pin won't sink from 5V anyway.
2019-06-04T19:45:24 < karlp> these are output pins, spi clock and mosi.
2019-06-04T19:45:50 < karlp> PaulFertser:right, yeah, I should check that. that might be all it needs.
2019-06-04T19:48:19 < englishman> lame, what chip is that that isn't 3v3 compatible
2019-06-04T19:49:16 < karlp> isow7841
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2019-06-04T19:49:25 < karlp> can be 3v3 compatible but then it's gotta be 3v3 on the far side
2019-06-04T19:49:31 < karlp> and the far side isn't 3v3 compatible either.
2019-06-04T19:50:34 < englishman> nice
2019-06-04T19:50:52 < englishman> on slightly related note, found a usb3 isolator today
2019-06-04T19:51:00 < englishman> would like to see what's inside
2019-06-04T19:51:18 < englishman> maybe it's one of those little Rf onchip transceivers
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2019-06-04T19:57:00 < boddax> if slow optocoupler?
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2019-06-04T20:56:33 < dongs> Edison: What will you make? Nothing, cuz the fucking thing is EOL
2019-06-04T21:03:46 < aandrew> I hear englishman knows something about that
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2019-06-04T21:10:02 < marble_visions_> > Join our experts for a free 1-day STM32MP15x hands-on workshop.
2019-06-04T21:11:59 < marble_visions_> so stm have made a dual-cluster soc
2019-06-04T21:12:08 < marble_visions_> anyone tried it out yet?
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2019-06-04T21:59:23 < qyx> no
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--- Day changed Wed Jun 05 2019
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2019-06-05T00:54:25 < kakimir> hello pump crew
2019-06-05T00:55:23 < Steffanx> Hello moite, kakimir 
2019-06-05T00:55:29 < Steffanx> Hows the day
2019-06-05T00:55:41 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/112CiJPK3Ohcx78HidPCUbLeb8TFehBE1/view?usp=sharing steam washing this
2019-06-05T00:56:01 < Steffanx> Pulled it apart again?
2019-06-05T00:56:07 < kakimir> nope
2019-06-05T00:56:17 < Steffanx> Looks clean
2019-06-05T00:56:25 < kakimir> I just disassemble the head
2019-06-05T00:56:34 < Steffanx> Needs a before pix
2019-06-05T00:56:36 < Steffanx> C
2019-06-05T00:57:36 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WqckkaU4DubgaAG5ciC4PPk5NuC3_3gS/view?usp=sharing
2019-06-05T00:57:38 < kakimir> sure
2019-06-05T00:57:49 < kakimir> valves will be polished and stuff i think
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2019-06-05T01:00:46 < kakimir> at least deposits are to be mechanically removed
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2019-06-05T01:09:33 < kakimir> gn steff
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2019-06-05T02:12:01 < arc_phasor> hi everyone, i have a stm32l073 sharing an i2c bus with a raspberry pi
2019-06-05T02:12:16 < arc_phasor> they are both masters, and the rpi is getting i2c lock errors when the stm32 is powered
2019-06-05T02:12:31 < arc_phasor> do i need to do something extra to support multi-master i2c?
2019-06-05T02:13:01 < karlp> .... so why were you asking in linux-sunxi? if it's a raspi?
2019-06-05T02:13:54 < karlp> so.. are2commie is gonna be an infineon employee then.... :)
2019-06-05T02:14:01 < karlp> must love being back under stinky euro rule
2019-06-05T02:15:35 < karlp> kakimir: can you come and lcean my shit?
2019-06-05T02:15:58 < karlp> I just replaced the bike chain and just kinda scraped a few of the worst chunks of grot off.  fuk it.
2019-06-05T02:16:03 < arc_phasor> it's a banana pi
2019-06-05T02:16:06 < arc_phasor> allwinner r16
2019-06-05T02:16:12 < arc_phasor> i just figured keep things simple
2019-06-05T02:16:35 < kakimir> karlp: get a chain washer and sprocket brush
2019-06-05T02:17:04 < karlp> yeah, I _should_
2019-06-05T02:17:16 < karlp> haven't
2019-06-05T02:17:31 < karlp> won't consider it until next time I have issues :)
2019-06-05T02:18:56 < arc_phasor> The stm32 HAL drivers i2c do support multi-master, right?
2019-06-05T02:20:25 < kakimir> karlp: and soap they use for washing engines and shit
2019-06-05T02:20:34 < kakimir> plant based
2019-06-05T02:20:38 < kakimir> 100% stuff
2019-06-05T02:20:43 < kakimir> nothing diluted
2019-06-05T02:20:48 < kakimir> 100% stuff
2019-06-05T02:21:02 < kakimir> you mix it 30-50% with hot water
2019-06-05T02:27:41 < mawk> do you use DMA arc_phasor ?
2019-06-05T02:28:58 < mawk> also what exactly are you doing on the pi side arc_phasor ?
2019-06-05T02:30:59 < arc_phasor> mawk: i'm not using DMA at the moment, just the calls like "HAL_I2C_Master_Transmit" on the stm32 side
2019-06-05T02:31:05 < mawk> ok good
2019-06-05T02:31:09 < mawk> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009XkgoYSAR/stm32-i2c-multimaster-hardware-bug
2019-06-05T02:31:17 < arc_phasor> mawk: on the linux side, i'm trying to run i2cdetect -a 1
2019-06-05T02:31:28 < arc_phasor> and it will block until i put the stm32 into reset
2019-06-05T02:31:43 < mawk> and with stm32 disconnected it returns immediately ?
2019-06-05T02:31:48 < arc_phasor> yes exactly
2019-06-05T02:31:57 < arc_phasor> with all the addresses of the chips on the bus
2019-06-05T02:32:06 < mawk> ah good
2019-06-05T02:32:39 < mawk> I'm trying to determine if you have special config to do on pi side for multimaster
2019-06-05T02:33:11 < mawk> somewhere around /usr/include/linux/i2c-dev.h
2019-06-05T02:33:25 < arc_phasor> i see this error message popping up on the pi "i2c i2c-1: mv64xxx: I2C bus locked, block: 1, time_left: 0"
2019-06-05T02:33:36 < arc_phasor> so i guess i'm using the mv64xxx driver?
2019-06-05T02:33:43 < mawk> yes probably
2019-06-05T02:33:48 < mawk> but that doesn't matter the interface is standard
2019-06-05T02:33:50 < arc_phasor> is that standard?
2019-06-05T02:33:52 < mawk> see file I mentionned
2019-06-05T02:33:59 < mawk> well modules are specific to your SoC
2019-06-05T02:34:03 < mawk> but they all expose a common interface
2019-06-05T02:34:09 < mawk> that you use through ioctls
2019-06-05T02:34:16 < arc_phasor> gotcha, i wonder if that is built out for the allwinner r16
2019-06-05T02:34:22 < mawk> yes most likely
2019-06-05T02:34:26 < mawk> the i2c peripheral is inside the soc
2019-06-05T02:34:53 < mawk> ah you mean if the module is compatible ?
2019-06-05T02:35:01 < mawk> well it's allwinner that selected that module so I guess yes
2019-06-05T02:35:05 < mawk> whoever wrote the device tree
2019-06-05T02:35:24 < mawk> not compatible module wouldn't run at all, not just glitch
2019-06-05T02:35:33 < arc_phasor> okay good
2019-06-05T02:35:40 < arc_phasor> should i try to find that file ?
2019-06-05T02:35:57 < mawk> I just mentionned it for you to see the standard interface the linux kernel has for i2c
2019-06-05T02:36:04 < mawk> you can read it if anything rings a bell
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2019-06-05T02:37:19 < arc_phasor> hmm yea i don't see any mention of multi-master
2019-06-05T02:40:05 < arc_phasor> another thing... as soon as i run the i2cdetect command from pi it errors out the stm32
2019-06-05T02:40:36 < mawk> I'm not an i2c expert, but there are electrical requirements to match no ?
2019-06-05T02:40:42 < mawk> voltage, pullup strength, timings
2019-06-05T02:41:18 < arc_phasor> well, the stm32 gets caught in the I2C_WaitOnFlagUntilTimeout loop
2019-06-05T02:41:30 < mawk> you're using the old lib ?
2019-06-05T02:41:33 < mawk> stm32periph
2019-06-05T02:41:42 < mawk> or it's a static function maybe, hence no HAL_ in the prefix
2019-06-05T02:41:51 < mawk> I think it's rather that
2019-06-05T02:42:01 < arc_phasor> yea, pretty sure its the new HAL stuff
2019-06-05T02:50:42 < arc_phasor> something is pulling the scl line low
2019-06-05T02:50:58 < arc_phasor> as soon as the pi runs its command
2019-06-05T02:57:06  * banana eats arc_phasor
2019-06-05T03:00:00 < englishman> zyp: attaching a steel towbar to an aluminium model S https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-hitch-torklift-ecohitch-3-year-update/1-img_3302/
2019-06-05T03:03:31  * arc_phasor eats banana
2019-06-05T03:07:45  * banana is eat
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2019-06-05T07:39:40 < R2COM> hi
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2019-06-05T08:28:54 < dongs> sup pro2com
2019-06-05T08:29:02 < dongs> how does it feel being bought by infineon
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2019-06-05T09:01:04 < emeb_mac> lol
2019-06-05T09:01:39 < emeb_mac> consolidated and di-worse-ified
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2019-06-05T11:13:03 < jadew> wtf is a printed name?
2019-06-05T11:14:23 < jadew> mouser is making me fill (in pen) an export form
2019-06-05T11:14:38 < dongs> it means name in block letter
2019-06-05T11:14:42 < dongs> JOE Q PUBLIC
2019-06-05T11:14:50 < dongs> as opposed to signature
2019-06-05T11:14:52 < dongs> in cursive/wahtever
2019-06-05T11:14:54 < jadew> ah, thanks
2019-06-05T11:14:59 < jadew> good to know
2019-06-05T11:15:20 < jadew> "Mouser Electronics hereby notifies the Buyer that products distributed by Mouser under the Encryption Commodities and Software (ENC)"
2019-06-05T11:15:27 < dongs> laugh
2019-06-05T11:15:32 < dongs> you fucking illegal crypto user
2019-06-05T11:15:57 < jadew> if I sign it, it's legal
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2019-06-05T11:19:15 < jadew> what a stupid fucking question
2019-06-05T11:19:27 < jadew> "What is the ultimate destination of this product?"
2019-06-05T11:19:31 < jadew> how the fuck should I know?
2019-06-05T11:19:35 < jadew> I haven't sold it yet
2019-06-05T11:19:42 < dongs> your office desk
2019-06-05T11:20:47 < jadew> oh, you think they mean the component itself?
2019-06-05T11:21:04 < dongs>  idont know, but when the ask me for end user i just list company name (mine)
2019-06-05T11:21:05 < jadew> cuz the prior question is what is the end use of this product
2019-06-05T11:21:10 < dongs> yeah
2019-06-05T11:21:31 < dongs> they're just worried taht you're not straight up reselling that part to iran
2019-06-05T11:21:34 < dongs> so end user = you
2019-06-05T11:21:38 < dongs> final destination = your office/countryt
2019-06-05T11:21:45 < dongs> what happens with it once you assemble shit, is out of the scope here
2019-06-05T11:22:49 < jadew> what an annoyance...
2019-06-05T11:34:45 < jadew> so that law only seems to apply if you're producing encryption equipment with their stuff
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2019-06-05T12:39:35 < Kerr-A> jadew: the US has pretty strict export regulations on some things
2019-06-05T12:40:39 < Kerr-A> Cryptography software or equipment was until 'relatively' recently regulated the same way as munitions lol
2019-06-05T12:41:01 < Kerr-A> fines start around $100k/violation/day
2019-06-05T12:42:40 < Kerr-A> heck some college got fined like 1.2 million for teaching how radar works with one international student in that engineering class
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2019-06-05T12:54:10 < karlp> Kerr-A: if  only the law had any relation to what distributors require
2019-06-05T12:58:36 < Kerr-A> ITAR and EAR require that companies write a proceedure to make sure that tech doesn't go places it isn't supposed to. These companies all have something different, but they all have to document their own proceedure and follow it to a T.
2019-06-05T12:58:59 < karlp> yes, I know the concept.
2019-06-05T12:59:21 < karlp> you live in the US?
2019-06-05T13:01:21 < Kerr-A> Yeah. I've had to deal with ITAR and EAR quite a bit because I work in companies that make a lot of military tech. I was helping my dad work towards ITAR compliance some years ago so his manufacturing company could take some restricted work.
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2019-06-05T13:06:31 < karlp> right. but the way that works _inside_ the us is rather different to the reality of it _outside_ the us, intent of the law be damned.
2019-06-05T13:08:29 < Kerr-A> Eh, All I was saying is that why mouser asks questions like "Where is this product going" because that's what the proceedure says. Like if you go to websites with gun blueprints available, usually they will require you say you are a US citizen before you can download them
2019-06-05T13:09:12 < Kerr-A> Asking satisfies the law :/
2019-06-05T13:12:22 < karlp> fair enough :)
2019-06-05T13:13:21 < karlp> the outside us viewpoint often comes down to the madness of "why does distro A sell me restricted parts A,B,C and distro B sell me C,D,E and distro C sell me A,D,F"
2019-06-05T13:14:00 < karlp> or even mor efun, "why does distro A sell me restricted part A on a dev board, but not the bare IC" and such insanity
2019-06-05T13:14:39 < karlp> or, "sure, we'll sell it, just fill out this form" and then months later, "oh yeah, we're not going to after all.  we don't really have an answer why we 're not going to anymore"
2019-06-05T13:15:06 < Kerr-A> Because the law is actually really really vague and just says "Make sure terrorists or restricted foreign nationals don't get these. Write a proceedure that you will follow to prevent this from happening."
2019-06-05T13:17:00 < Kerr-A> And since everyone writes their own, they are all different... and usually there is a person who's job it is to ensure compliance, and their understanding of what they have to do changes over time. At one distro the compliance officer probably doesn't relize that F contains A and doesn't mark it as restricted. Human fallacy
2019-06-05T13:18:30 < karlp> "it's difficult, so fuck everyone outside the us" isn't really something that makes friends :)
2019-06-05T13:18:37 < Kerr-A> The person who does compliance usually doesn't understand a lick of the manufacturing or tech or use of what they are regulating. Where I work right now it's the owner's introverted son who handles compliance
2019-06-05T13:18:52 < Kerr-A> haha
2019-06-05T13:19:37 < Kerr-A> I sell some stuff, but only to the US because "It's difficult, so fuck everyone outside the US" lol
2019-06-05T13:21:18 < Kerr-A> Fun fact, saying fuck everyone outside the US doesn't prevent you from needing to deal with ITAR/EAR. You can have your compliance document say "Don't allow foreign nationals on company property, check new visitors. Don't ship internationally. Inform buyers that the products may not be delivered to non citizens" and pretty much be done
2019-06-05T13:22:05 < Kerr-A> oh, and like $10K/year fee to ITAR for them to pretend to read your compliance document and approve it. not sure what EAR charges.
2019-06-05T13:22:11 < karlp> absolutely. I'm just saying it doesn't win friends :)
2019-06-05T13:23:31 < Kerr-A> Now I'm imagining a guy with a trench coat and IC's in it. "Hey buddy, want some chips that do 2048 bit RSA encryption?" from the shadows
2019-06-05T13:24:29 < rajkosto> some of that "Ming Mecca" chip
2019-06-05T13:29:05 < Kerr-A> Just get your chips from this guy
2019-06-05T13:29:07 < Kerr-A> https://i.imgur.com/0Av327L.png
2019-06-05T13:42:25 < rajkosto> you actually can easily get "illegal" chips from aliexpress if its been dumped by a supplier etc
2019-06-05T13:42:52 < rajkosto> "illegal" == requires membership to some alliance with a proper company to get, like the ones with HDMI AES keys
2019-06-05T13:47:20 < Kerr-A> https://i.imgur.com/TlOVOq8.png
2019-06-05T13:48:36 < Kerr-A> wait, better https://i.imgur.com/5FAMFja.png
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2019-06-05T14:14:39 < Thorn> >Infineon to acquire Cypress
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2019-06-05T14:18:46 < rajkosto> does infineon even have any open source/hobbyist usable stuff like cypress does
2019-06-05T14:18:56 < karlp> Thorn: yeah, we mentioned it yesterday.
2019-06-05T14:19:04 < karlp> rajkosto: what do you mean?
2019-06-05T14:19:13 < karlp> Thorn: aretoocommie gets to work for stinky euro people again
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2019-06-05T15:00:33 < englishman> fuck who would pay $9b for psoc
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2019-06-05T15:03:00 < karlp> well, broadcom's wifi too.
2019-06-05T15:03:34  * karlp shrugs
2019-06-05T15:03:41 < karlp> who really understands valuations at that sort of scale
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2019-06-05T18:48:08 < Rickta59> doesn't cypress own ramtron ? * people with the FRAM tech and patents?
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2019-06-05T18:57:58 < bitmask> wake up people
2019-06-05T18:58:08 < bitmask> about how powerful is a microwave fan motor
2019-06-05T18:58:51 < bitmask> probably not that fast actually
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2019-06-05T19:07:38 < englishman> ups is such utter fucking garbage worthless service fuck
2019-06-05T19:09:38 < Steffanx> Ty
2019-06-05T19:14:13 < qyx> bitmask: probably few watts, I would expect ~10-15
2019-06-05T19:14:25 < qyx> also probably shaded-pole induction, so efficiency--
2019-06-05T19:14:39 < bitmask> yea, I realized it wont work for what I want, oh well
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2019-06-05T19:26:08 < englishman> Rickta59: yes
2019-06-05T19:26:25 < englishman> even more useless stuff too
2019-06-05T19:27:53 < englishman> In April 2016, Cypress Semiconductors announced the acquisition of Broadcom's Wireless Internet of Things Business.
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2019-06-05T20:13:24 < arc_phasor> i'm trying to get a multi-master i2c bus working. I should be able to just leave the stm32 as a master right? I shouldn't need to switch it to a slave when it's not in use, right?
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2019-06-05T20:43:09 < jpa-> arc_phasor: correct
2019-06-05T20:44:37 < arc_phasor> well thats good i guess, but it's not working for me
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2019-06-05T21:06:25 < jpa-> arc_phasor: is it i2cv1 or i2cv2? (which stm32 family?)
2019-06-05T21:06:39 < jpa-> especially i2cv1 has a lot of errata that you need to carefully consider in code
2019-06-05T21:11:57 < arc_phasor> i'm not sure, its the stm32l073rz
2019-06-05T21:12:05 < jpa-> should be v2 then
2019-06-05T21:12:37 < arc_phasor> i'm using the highest layer of code, the hal stuff. do I need to dig deeper?
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2019-06-05T21:18:47 < boddax> bitmask whats the 3Dprinter firmware you mention ?  ..klipper?
2019-06-05T21:18:58 < bitmask> yea
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2019-06-05T21:19:19 < bitmask> I forget why I switched to it to be honest
2019-06-05T21:20:20 < boddax> that one is gcode not grbl right?
2019-06-05T21:21:44 < bitmask> I didn't know grbl didnt use gcode?
2019-06-05T21:21:51 < jpa-> arc_phasor: in what way is it not working?
2019-06-05T21:22:01 < bitmask> it uses gcode but its not exactly the same as marlin
2019-06-05T21:27:26 < arc_phasor> jpa-: running i2cdetect -r 1 on the pi is not returning until i put the stm32 into reset
2019-06-05T21:27:46 < arc_phasor> but as soon as i hit the reset button on the nucleo, the command returns with all the addresses showing
2019-06-05T21:29:22 < jpa-> so in what state is your code on the stm32 keeping the i2c peripheral?
2019-06-05T21:30:41 < arc_phasor> the stm32 writes to a LED driver peripheral every 5 ms
2019-06-05T21:31:15 < jpa-> a logic analyzer trace might tell you more
2019-06-05T21:31:32 < arc_phasor> but i basically call MX_I2C1_Init at the start of code, and just HAL_I2C_Master_Transmit every 5ms
2019-06-05T21:32:04 < arc_phasor> i'm going to disable the frequent writing and see if that allows the pi to query for addresses
2019-06-05T21:32:30 < arc_phasor> I don't have a logic analyzer unfortunately, only an o-scope
2019-06-05T21:53:58 < arc_phasor> Ok, looks like the stm32 is holding the SCL line low
2019-06-05T21:55:57 < arc_phasor> It gets stuck in the I2C_WaitOnFlagUntilTimeout
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--- Day changed Thu Jun 06 2019
2019-06-06T00:09:40 < kakimir> hello pump crew
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2019-06-06T00:13:15 < englishman> hello fellow innovator
2019-06-06T00:13:19 < englishman> are you looking for a job
2019-06-06T00:13:38 < jly> i was looking for the grand wizard sir
2019-06-06T00:13:55 < kakimir> yes sure englishman 
2019-06-06T00:14:08 < kakimir> time between comming from sauna and falling to sleep
2019-06-06T00:14:16 < englishman> is there a word for that period
2019-06-06T00:14:22 < kakimir> yes
2019-06-06T00:14:23 < kakimir> bedtime
2019-06-06T00:14:26 < englishman> no
2019-06-06T00:14:32 < englishman> before bedtime
2019-06-06T00:14:35 < englishman> but after sauna
2019-06-06T00:14:46 < kakimir> maybe "ilta rauhoittuminen"
2019-06-06T00:15:02 < englishman> ennennukkumaanmenoamuttasaunanjälkeenkunoletrento
2019-06-06T00:15:02 < kakimir> or chill after sauna
2019-06-06T00:15:11 < jly> while i'm here i'll check the accumulator
2019-06-06T00:15:26 < kakimir> englishman: indeed1!
2019-06-06T00:15:42 < jly> it's on 0... must be broken
2019-06-06T00:15:45 < kakimir> but we never use such word in communication
2019-06-06T00:16:09 < kakimir> maybe something like "tsillaan tässä saunan jälkeen kohta nukkumaan"
2019-06-06T00:16:15 < englishman> ah well i will add it to my Finnish vocabulary just the same
2019-06-06T00:16:58 < jly> sounds all fucked up
2019-06-06T00:17:10  * jly hands Steffanx jolly
2019-06-06T00:21:05 < englishman> dongs: futurefon dickstarter finally delivers. https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/04/santa-clara-computer-businessman-found-guilty-of-fraud-in-chicago/
2019-06-06T00:21:32 < jly> good on him
2019-06-06T00:21:35 < jly> 240
2019-06-06T00:22:15 < kakimir> what is our jly counting?
2019-06-06T00:23:08 < Cracki> dick!
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2019-06-06T00:34:51 < kakimir> 240years?
2019-06-06T00:34:54 < kakimir> was he black?
2019-06-06T00:36:37 < bitmask> if he GETS 240 years he is, if he gets a slap on the wrist hes white
2019-06-06T00:37:08 < bitmask> didnt read yet, is there a minimum?
2019-06-06T00:38:19 < Cracki> uh, these days it's the other way around.
2019-06-06T00:39:57 < Cracki> also I think you just invented albinoplasty by wrist slapping
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2019-06-06T00:49:39 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxlKVjTQ8cM
2019-06-06T00:49:43 < kakimir> musics ofc
2019-06-06T00:53:46 < Steffanx> Hn
2019-06-06T00:53:52 < Steffanx> Hm*
2019-06-06T00:56:23 < kakimir> moped engine block has arrived to local pick-up office Steffanx 
2019-06-06T00:58:30 < kakimir> if I was teenage me I would jizz myself
2019-06-06T00:59:06 < kakimir> now it's like lets get those moped wheels spinning so that I can move on to other projects
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2019-06-06T01:06:32 < Steffanx> Moped?
2019-06-06T01:06:44 < kakimir> r6 - moped
2019-06-06T01:06:56 < kakimir> or mopo in finnish
2019-06-06T01:07:30 < kakimir> mopo is in spoken language like thing that doesn't quite have the power
2019-06-06T01:09:48 < kakimir> also luuska = skinny horse
2019-06-06T01:10:43 < kakimir> meaning thing has serious lack of power
2019-06-06T01:11:50 < kakimir> but it's not the case with r6
2019-06-06T01:20:43 < jadew> so what was futurefon?
2019-06-06T01:23:25 < jadew> found it
2019-06-06T01:23:30 < jadew> looks like a trap for stupid people
2019-06-06T01:24:53 < Steffanx> So aliexpress shipping speed here jadew. Item shipped 28th of may, arrival date 7th of juni. 2nd package shipped a day later and will probably be here the 8th. So fast enough :P
2019-06-06T01:25:08 < Steffanx> June*
2019-06-06T01:25:22 < jadew> damn... that's fast
2019-06-06T01:26:00 < jadew> makes me sad
2019-06-06T01:26:26 < jadew> I'm trying to find a way to get my shit here faster but I had no luck
2019-06-06T01:26:38 < jadew> I even contacted a bunch of shops, like dongs suggested, but got no reply
2019-06-06T01:26:46 < Steffanx> Hm sucks
2019-06-06T01:27:38 < jadew> there was a brief period when shipping from china happened at the same speed you're talking about
2019-06-06T01:27:48 < jadew> but it only lasted maybe 3 months
2019-06-06T01:27:51 < jadew> tops
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2019-06-06T01:30:01 < jadew> if only they had a service you could opt for, to collect all your shit in one place and deliver it once
2019-06-06T01:30:05 < jadew> with one invoice
2019-06-06T01:30:22 < karlp> yeah, it's called chinagirl.
2019-06-06T01:30:30 < karlp> shipping consolidation services.
2019-06-06T01:30:55 < jadew> yeah, I found a chinaguy but it seems shipping from china to china also takes a lot
2019-06-06T01:30:57 < karlp> hell, things like myus.com and shipito all do this too, just not always as cheap as you might want for tiny things.
2019-06-06T01:31:22 < jadew> what you want is somone who will take a shopping list, go out, buy what you need and ship it to you
2019-06-06T01:31:52 < jadew> I can't find that
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2019-06-06T02:02:30 < englishman> what
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2019-06-06T02:02:39 < englishman> shipping China to China is literally free
2019-06-06T02:03:05 < englishman> and to find a chinagurl weren't you given the advice you need already
2019-06-06T02:03:06 < karlp> unless you find a sucker romanian to pay for it :)
2019-06-06T02:03:15 < englishman> tru
2019-06-06T02:03:18 < englishman> hi karl
2019-06-06T02:03:29 < englishman> I'm going to get a second iotawatt
2019-06-06T02:03:48 < englishman> not trying to rub it in your face or anything I just like it
2019-06-06T02:03:56 < englishman> weather is going into the same db now too
2019-06-06T02:04:01 < aandrew> what's iotawatt?
2019-06-06T02:04:18 < englishman> so I should be able to calculate heat power flow out of the house
2019-06-06T02:04:32 < Cracki> yotta is 10^24
2019-06-06T02:05:08 < Cracki> iotawatt appears to be a device that measures
2019-06-06T02:05:26 < aandrew> oh I see, energy meter, 14ch
2019-06-06T02:05:34 < Cracki> https://iotawatt.com/assets/img/IoTaWatt_plugs_300x304-1.png
2019-06-06T02:05:36 < Cracki> looks nice
2019-06-06T02:06:41 < karlp> englishman: hey, no skin off my nose.
2019-06-06T02:07:02 < karlp> (our strenghts become stronger when you start wanting lots of channels mind you)
2019-06-06T02:07:34 < jadew> englishman, I actually contacted sellers on aliexpress, but nobody answered
2019-06-06T02:07:50 < jadew> granted, I only contacted those that had reasonable DHL rates
2019-06-06T02:07:59 < karlp> what are you feeding the data too now?
2019-06-06T02:08:10 < jadew> there's no point in contacting someone who's going to charge me $100 for shipping a 10x10x5 box
2019-06-06T02:08:25 < englishman> karlp: infucksdb
2019-06-06T02:08:36 < karlp> all the things yuo love :)
2019-06-06T02:08:43 < karlp> what are you then looking at it with?
2019-06-06T02:08:56 < karlp> inlux native shit, or grafana or what?
2019-06-06T02:08:57 < englishman> grafana, tho I haven't played with it too much
2019-06-06T02:09:41 < englishman> I'm able to see how much the hot tub costs to run in -30C which is nice
2019-06-06T02:09:43 < karlp> does thhe iotawatt have influxdb export natively? (ours does statsd natively, which graphite can take, which grafana can also talk to)
2019-06-06T02:09:52 < englishman> and how much is saved by lowering the temp ever so slightly
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2019-06-06T02:09:58 < englishman> yes and it's quite good
2019-06-06T02:10:16 < englishman> it will push all missing records during an internet problem
2019-06-06T02:10:19 < karlp> yeah, it should be "enter endpoint for inflxuy/grafana" etc.
2019-06-06T02:10:29 < karlp> yeah, that's just storage based, we do that too.
2019-06-06T02:10:31 < aandrew> I got a bunch (40) custom tiny CTs from alibaba, was going to roll my own energy monitor for the house
2019-06-06T02:10:36 < karlp> (depends how long you're offline for)
2019-06-06T02:10:40 < aandrew> they're nice and small and no burden resistor
2019-06-06T02:10:42 < englishman> aandrew: what kind
2019-06-06T02:10:55 < englishman> yeah that's nice, so the resistor can be calibrated separately
2019-06-06T02:11:03 < aandrew> englishman: what kind? it's been a while, let me see if I can dig up the email chain
2019-06-06T02:13:12 < karlp> heh, jsut got notified of a bug report on a project whose last commit was 7 years ago.
2019-06-06T02:13:30 < jadew> your project?
2019-06-06T02:13:31 < karlp> ==> unfollow. mute.
2019-06-06T02:13:36 < karlp> no, something I used once a long time ago.
2019-06-06T02:16:45 < kow__> did I get the order right https://i.imgflip.com/32ril1.jpg
2019-06-06T02:17:23 < jadew> raspi should be at ant brain
2019-06-06T02:17:37 < kow__> yeah I had a hard time with 1 and 2
2019-06-06T02:18:10 < aandrew> lol
2019-06-06T02:20:03 < Cracki> the "proper order" would be something absolutely insane at the end
2019-06-06T02:20:15 < Cracki> so... good job?
2019-06-06T02:20:40 < kow__> ya, fpga/linux soc
2019-06-06T02:21:36 < Cracki> btw, the new atmegas (atmega0) are starting to use their memory map sanely. they got something like a BSRR now
2019-06-06T02:21:38 < aandrew> hm, I can only find info on the split bobbin CTs I was looking at (KCT series) -- the transforers I have are not split core
2019-06-06T02:22:21 < aandrew> it's funny though because they are labelled as having a 0 ohm burden resistor when in fact there is none
2019-06-06T02:22:47 < sync> 0 ohm would be not so useful
2019-06-06T02:24:06 < aandrew> yeah it would kind of suck in fact
2019-06-06T02:24:30 < sync> I'm suprised how cheap even big boi CTs are
2019-06-06T02:24:55 < aandrew> well there really isn't much to them, but you do have to make sure you're using them in their linear range
2019-06-06T02:32:25 < grindhold> what is the current way to reset a timer with libopencm3 on stm32f103?
2019-06-06T02:32:40 < grindhold> i found a piece of code that uses timer_reset which apparently does not exist anymore in the recent API
2019-06-06T02:52:23 < zyp> reset in what sense? timer_set_counter(TIMx, 0) ?
2019-06-06T02:53:09 < zyp> or perhaps having RCC reset the timer?
2019-06-06T02:53:32 < grindhold> i found  a call in an older piece of code that i want to use. i assume what you wrote is just what it does 
2019-06-06T02:53:36 < grindhold> let me try that out
2019-06-06T02:53:41 < dongs> < zyp> reset in what sense? timer_set_counter(TIMx, 0) ?
2019-06-06T02:53:49 < dongs> why teh fuck would anyone call that instead of TIMx->CNT = 0
2019-06-06T02:54:03 < zyp> dunno, I didn't make libopencm3
2019-06-06T02:54:46 < zyp> tbh, this is pretty ridiculous: https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/master/include/libopencm3/stm32/common/timer_common_all.h#L1179
2019-06-06T02:55:28 < zyp> that code screams «whatever, LTO will fix it»
2019-06-06T02:56:04 < dongs> working LTO, in MY gcc? hahaha.
2019-06-06T02:56:05 < dongs> nice joke
2019-06-06T02:57:19 < Cracki> ST's HAL does this, does it not
2019-06-06T02:57:27 < dongs> who cares what HAL does
2019-06-06T02:57:33 < dongs> thats definitely wrong
2019-06-06T02:57:36 < Cracki> people with NIH syndrome :P
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2019-06-06T03:19:56 < karlp> grindhold: there was a function timer_reset, that just was ~equivalent to rcc_periph_reset_pulse(RST_xxx)
2019-06-06T03:21:04 < grindhold> karlp: sounds promising. i will try that tomorrow :)
2019-06-06T03:21:08 < grindhold> thank you
2019-06-06T03:22:12 < karlp> https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/issues/709
2019-06-06T03:22:31 < karlp> examples were updated in 2016, function itself was removed in 2018
2019-06-06T03:41:35 < mawk> with always_inline it'd be great for doc purpose zyp 
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2019-06-06T08:25:27 < jadew> lol, I was very confused about this netflix movie
2019-06-06T08:25:31 < jadew> "Oh Ramona"
2019-06-06T08:25:41 < jadew> lots of people seemed to have romanian names in it
2019-06-06T08:25:49 < jadew> but they were speaking english
2019-06-06T08:26:24 < jadew> anyway, turns out it's after a book by some romanian guy, but they got the name wrong
2019-06-06T08:26:39 < jadew> it's called "Suck it, Ramona"
2019-06-06T08:27:25 < jadew> looks like a shit movie
2019-06-06T08:33:07 < jadew> anyone got the thermal expert q1?
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2019-06-06T15:40:23 < dongs> Por favor pode disponibilizar o código?
2019-06-06T15:47:06 < mawk> sì
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2019-06-06T16:08:29 < TheSeven> what the heck... I can't get my F072 to enter the UART bootloader
2019-06-06T16:08:34 < TheSeven> the code has previously worked on a supposedly identical prototype
2019-06-06T16:08:38 < TheSeven> the UART is also used for communication at runtime, and that works, so should be ok electrically
2019-06-06T16:08:44 < dongs> you mean, you are jumping to it?
2019-06-06T16:08:49 < dongs> or by shorting boot0
2019-06-06T16:09:10 < TheSeven> this s a board with two MCUs, and the other one is trying to update the stm32
2019-06-06T16:09:16 < dongs> right
2019-06-06T16:09:18 < dongs> so how does that happen
2019-06-06T16:09:53 < TheSeven> it controls bootloader entry/exit through a single I/O pin wired to BOOT0 and the negative side of the 100nF cap on the reset pin
2019-06-06T16:10:53 < dongs> thats a bit dodgy eh
2019-06-06T16:10:57 < TheSeven> so what it does is drive boot0 high to discharge the cap through the protection diode, then toggle it low briefly to reset the STM32 and drive it high again so that boot0 is high at the time that it's sampled
2019-06-06T16:11:01 < dongs> you're expecting boot0 to stay high long enough due to cap?
2019-06-06T16:11:02 < dongs> or wat
2019-06-06T16:11:17 < TheSeven> to leave bootloader, it will just drive it high, then keep it low, to ensure that boot0 is low at the time that it's sampled
2019-06-06T16:11:26 < dongs> why dont you just jump to bootloader from code on stm#2
2019-06-06T16:11:39 < dongs> and then to exit, you issue the reboot bl command
2019-06-06T16:11:43 < dongs> saves y ou a gpui
2019-06-06T16:11:45 < dongs> gpio
2019-06-06T16:11:49 < TheSeven> the idea is that this should be able to recover from a failed flashing operation
2019-06-06T16:11:51 < dongs> (and possible randomness
2019-06-06T16:12:15 < dongs> i guess you dont care about code security then?
2019-06-06T16:12:15 < TheSeven> (or even program a factory-new chip)
2019-06-06T16:12:20 < TheSeven> yep
2019-06-06T16:13:40 < dongs> hmm.
2019-06-06T16:13:49 < dongs> i totally think relying on a cap like that is dodgy
2019-06-06T16:15:32 < TheSeven> the part that's dodgy about it is that the cap may under some circumstances only be connected to GND through a 10k resistor, so it might not perfectly decouple the nRST pin
2019-06-06T16:15:56 < TheSeven> so I could imagine things like spurious resets or stuff like that, but that's not the problem that I have here...
2019-06-06T16:17:12 < TheSeven> during the ~1300ns reset pulse issued by the other controller, the nRST pin stays at <600mV and is then brought back up to 3.3V with a sharp edge, along with BOOT0
2019-06-06T16:18:02 < TheSeven> BOOT0 lags behind no more than 2ns as far as I can tell - and my understanding is that this will under no circumstances be sampled earlier than 300ns after reset release
2019-06-06T16:18:16 < TheSeven> so plenty of headroom there as well
2019-06-06T16:18:50 < dongs> so whats the deal? you know its not entering cuz it resets and runs userspace?
2019-06-06T16:19:24 < dongs> is it possible its defaulting to other methods of bootlaoder because shit like i2c is pulled up or wahetver?
2019-06-06T16:19:25 < TheSeven> I can't tell 100% certainly yet that it actually executes userspace, but based on my limited observations it seems to
2019-06-06T16:19:31 < dongs> well
2019-06-06T16:19:40 < dongs> do you have a led or something you cal blink from the 2nd stm
2019-06-06T16:19:42 < dongs> on successful boot
2019-06-06T16:19:54 < dongs> then you'll know for sure
2019-06-06T16:20:32 < TheSeven> what I've observed is the TX pin of the STM's UART, which floats during reset and then gets pulled back up
2019-06-06T16:20:53 < TheSeven> the time that it floats is plausible before being initialized is plausible for userspace boot
2019-06-06T16:21:21 < TheSeven> it then just doesn't respond to the 0x7f autobaud bytes (sent at 115200-8e1)
2019-06-06T16:21:59 < dongs> did you actually have that work before? STM uaert is kinda fucky to do 8e1 you actually need to configure it for 9 bit
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2019-06-06T16:39:21 < TheSeven> it's working perfectly fine at runtime, and this flashing code has also worked before (although on a different, but supposedly identical prototype board)
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2019-06-06T16:51:25 < TheSeven> ok, so by observing some other pins used by the application, I have pretty clear evidence that it isn't booting normally
2019-06-06T16:58:47 < TheSeven> hmm
2019-06-06T16:59:16 < TheSeven> after entering the bootloader that way, something enables the USB pull-up but fails to enumerate, so DFU isn't quite working either
2019-06-06T16:59:46 < TheSeven> it does however work if I force boot0 high and pull nRST manually
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2019-06-06T17:09:21 < TheSeven> and it looks like that whole flashing process works if I manually assert reset while the other MCU is pulling up boot0 and trying to establish communication
2019-06-06T17:11:41 < qyx> so the cap is the reason
2019-06-06T17:11:55 < qyx> there is always some cap making trouble
2019-06-06T17:12:21 < TheSeven> yeah, but I can't find anything in the datasheet forbidding to do this :P
2019-06-06T17:13:46 < jadew> any ideas on how to get customers to give feedback without annoying them after the sale?
2019-06-06T17:14:07 < qyx> hide it in the software
2019-06-06T17:14:16 < qyx> make the thing call home
2019-06-06T17:14:19 < jadew> it's hardware
2019-06-06T17:14:43 < jadew> and I want them to say "yeah, it's cool" or "it's crap, I don't like it because x"
2019-06-06T17:14:53 < qyx> is it a dumb softwareless hardware?
2019-06-06T17:14:58 < jadew> yes
2019-06-06T17:15:06 < qyx> :(
2019-06-06T17:15:22 < qyx> no iot no fun
2019-06-06T17:19:24 < englishman> don't decouple your reset pin with 0.1u
2019-06-06T17:19:33 < englishman> this is a lot of load for an output
2019-06-06T17:19:55 < englishman> and not recommended by st per some appnote
2019-06-06T17:20:10 < karlp> teh "getting started with stm32xx hardware development" note is worth reading
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2019-06-06T17:20:18 < TheSeven> huh? pretty much every ST datasheet recommends doing exactly that
2019-06-06T17:20:19 < karlp> "I've always used pullups and caps on reset" 
2019-06-06T17:20:19 < englishman> yeah something like that
2019-06-06T17:21:13 < TheSeven> https://imgur.com/88YKybv
2019-06-06T17:21:39 < englishman> hmm is that 072
2019-06-06T17:21:45 < TheSeven> yers
2019-06-06T17:21:46 < TheSeven> yes*
2019-06-06T17:22:12 < englishman> weird, it is incomplete
2019-06-06T17:22:17 < englishman> datasheet?
2019-06-06T17:22:21 < karlp> pull down cap is optional, 100nf ok, 10nf also ok for less power consumption
2019-06-06T17:22:43 < TheSeven> source: https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stm32f072c8.pdf
2019-06-06T17:22:49 < englishman> gay
2019-06-06T17:23:00 < englishman> check out the hardware integration appnotes
2019-06-06T17:23:12 < karlp> except 7 doesn't have it to ground, they have it to the pin of another MCU....
2019-06-06T17:23:23 < karlp> englishman: same schematic in the hw appnotes
2019-06-06T17:23:39 < englishman> where's the one that shows the self reset output stuff too
2019-06-06T17:23:42 < TheSeven> anyway, if that cap isn't required, it seems even more unlikely that the pin has trouble with sharp edges...
2019-06-06T17:23:46 < englishman> I'm thinking of another one
2019-06-06T17:24:02 < englishman> isn't that series cap thing copy pasted from tarduino
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2019-06-06T17:24:41 < englishman> meant to prevent resets on plugging different UART adapters that might pull one of the control lines around
2019-06-06T17:26:05 < TheSeven> so IIUC we have two distinct possibilities here: 1. it doesn't like something about the reset pulse and ends up locking up somehow, 2. it actually enters the bootloader, but that gets confused by something
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2019-06-06T17:26:35 < TheSeven> the latter seems unlikely because an addional manual (button) reset helps, but a second software-issued reset pulse doesn't
2019-06-06T17:28:38 < qyx> wat, every single ds I have read has 0.1nF from nRST to GND
2019-06-06T17:30:10 < qyx> also there is no external pullup
2019-06-06T17:30:25 < karlp> 0.1nf?
2019-06-06T17:30:32 < qyx> uF
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2019-06-06T17:30:47 < karlp> hw ref notes all say 100nf to ground, nothing else.
2019-06-06T17:30:55 < karlp> can be lowered to 10nf to reduce power consumption
2019-06-06T17:31:03 < qyx> I was about to write 100nF but changed my mind in the middle
2019-06-06T17:33:57 < TheSeven> stretching the reseet pulse from 1.3 to ~11.5µs doesn't help either
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2019-06-06T17:36:04 < TheSeven> argh
2019-06-06T17:36:51 < TheSeven> might indeed be bootloader confusion due to some chatter on another pin
2019-06-06T17:37:27 < karlp> re-read the bootloader app note thingy that talks about all the detection steps 
2019-06-06T17:37:33 < karlp> an2616 or whatever it is.
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2019-06-06T17:57:58 < TheSeven> yeah I know - I just wasn't aware that there was chatter on the other UART at that time
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2019-06-06T20:01:41 < karlp> huh, hadn't seen h7 with dual m7+m4 yet
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2019-06-06T20:22:05 < karlp> gak, why is this a video, instead of a web page with the pcitures and summary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvlMeTnjriQ&feature=youtu.be
2019-06-06T20:36:42 < mawk> for the youtube money
2019-06-06T20:41:42 < aandrew> ok altium pros
2019-06-06T20:41:48 < aandrew> I have a schematic and its corresponding layout
2019-06-06T20:41:50 < aandrew> all is good
2019-06-06T20:41:58 < aandrew> now I'm making modifications to the schematic.
2019-06-06T20:42:16 < aandrew> when I push to layout it complains that it can't automatch some nets. this is true, those nets are completely different now
2019-06-06T20:42:35 < aandrew> but how the hell do I push the changes? I do NOT manually match and continue, the layout doesn't update
2019-06-06T20:43:43 < aandrew> oh wait, it seems to have worked this time
2019-06-06T20:43:46 < aandrew> nevermind
2019-06-06T20:44:36 < aandrew> it's going to be interesting generating changes to the 5x repeated sections because I nuked the rooms
2019-06-06T20:45:00 < boddax> Altium look like win10 running on commodore64  so slooow
2019-06-06T20:45:08 < aandrew> nah
2019-06-06T20:45:25 < aandrew> I'm running altium17 in a VM on esxi and RDPing to it. it's not the fastest but it's very very usable
2019-06-06T20:45:28 < aandrew> even the 3d
2019-06-06T20:45:29 < boddax> is slow not rock
2019-06-06T20:46:07 < boddax> sure if you have 10K $ pc :))
2019-06-06T20:46:13 < aandrew> ? no
2019-06-06T20:46:31 < aandrew> this is on a blade server, the entire server (minus HDDs and extra RAM) cost me $250 (not a typo)
2019-06-06T20:47:06 < aandrew> each blade is dual xeon l5540 and up to 192GB of reg. ECC DDR2 or 3, it has four blades. one of them is my esxi node
2019-06-06T20:47:26 < qyx> such blades
2019-06-06T20:47:30 < aandrew> I have a buttload of 4GB dimms for this thing but that just gives me 48GB
2019-06-06T20:48:06 < aandrew> it's an old server running old (6.0) esxi, running win7 running altium17
2019-06-06T20:48:12 < boddax> thats why running fast Altium ..he think have 48gb
2019-06-06T20:49:59 < boddax> anyway id you progessional designer its ok Altium ..gor me kicad is very ok
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2019-06-06T20:50:56 < aandrew> boddax: again, the entire esxi has 48G, my win7 VM running altium I think has 2, maybe 4
2019-06-06T20:51:09 < aandrew> I am keeping my eye on kicad, but it's not ready enough for me yet
2019-06-06T20:51:25 < aandrew> some are doing really complex boards in it and I commend them for it, but I need more out of the EDA tools 
2019-06-06T20:52:04 < boddax> have you try easyeda online?
2019-06-06T20:52:28 < aandrew> lol no
2019-06-06T20:52:39 < aandrew> I said I needed more features than kicad currently has. 
2019-06-06T20:53:06  * qyx kicading segmented LCD on a L053
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2019-06-06T23:07:38 < englishman> lol kicad
2019-06-06T23:07:42 < englishman> still better than eagle
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2019-06-06T23:39:29 < qyx> mhm L053 as only 31 segment drivers instead of 32 for L073
2019-06-06T23:39:38 < qyx> at least it is pin compatible
2019-06-06T23:46:01 < qyx> ok, the MCU is powered from a 3V CR2032 or similar
2019-06-06T23:46:14 < qyx> it has a VDD_USB input and I want to use the USB
2019-06-06T23:46:46 < qyx> if I understand that correctly, during normal operation when USB is not used, VDD_USB has to be connected to VDD, VDD_USB <= VDD
2019-06-06T23:47:07 < qyx> if I want to use USB, VDD_USB >= 3.0V
2019-06-06T23:47:40 < qyx> so preferably I should power the VDD_USB rail from a LDO going from VUSB
2019-06-06T23:47:58 < qyx> and somehow (dual diode?) power-or the two sources together
2019-06-06T23:48:02 < zyp> I don't remember for L0, but I think on other parts it can be left unpowered when you're not using USB
2019-06-06T23:48:13 < qyx> oh
2019-06-06T23:48:19 < qyx> that would be great
2019-06-06T23:48:38 < zyp> IIRC that's what WB docs say, and WB is pretty much L4 with a radio
2019-06-06T23:49:39 < zyp> ah
2019-06-06T23:49:49 < zyp> RM0367 says the same is true for L053
2019-06-06T23:49:51 < zyp> «The device is still functional when VDD_USB is switched off.»
2019-06-06T23:50:09 < qyx> V DD_USB = 1.65 to 3.6V: external power supply for USB transceiver, USB_DM (PA11)
2019-06-06T23:50:12 < qyx> and USB_DP (PA12). To guarantee a correct voltage level for USB communication
2019-06-06T23:50:15 < qyx> V DD_USB must be above 3.0V. If USB is not used this pin must be tied to V DD . On
2019-06-06T23:50:18 < qyx> packages without VDD_USB pin, V DD_USB voltage is internally connected to V DD
2019-06-06T23:50:20 < qyx> voltage.
2019-06-06T23:50:23 < qyx> fuk
2019-06-06T23:50:50 < zyp> that's not what the RM says
2019-06-06T23:50:57 < qyx> thats what the datasheet says
2019-06-06T23:51:05 < zyp> check first page of the PWR section
2019-06-06T23:51:15 < qyx> STM32L073x
2019-06-06T23:51:33 < zyp> oh, I thought you said L053
2019-06-06T23:52:09 < qyx> the same applies
2019-06-06T23:52:21 < qyx> because they share the RM
2019-06-06T23:52:56 < qyx> ok, so they say I may disconnect usb_vdd in the RM and I may not disconnect it according to the DS
2019-06-06T23:53:15 < zyp> I think maybe it's an interpretation thing
2019-06-06T23:53:30 < zyp> if you're not using USB _at all_ you should hook it to Vdd, perhaps?
2019-06-06T23:53:37 < qyx> I swear I read somewhere that PA11/PA12 are not available if VDD_USB is disconnected
2019-06-06T23:53:58 < zyp> yeah, that's reasonable
2019-06-06T23:53:58 < qyx> that would explain it
2019-06-06T23:55:04 < zyp> datasheet page 63 is clearer
2019-06-06T23:55:06 < zyp> - If the USB is not used, VDD_USB must range from VDD_min to VDD_max to be able to use PA11 and PA12 as standard I/Os.
2019-06-06T23:56:21 < zyp> there's also some stuff there saying VDD_USB must be lower than VDD during power up/down
2019-06-06T23:56:59 < zyp> so you might want to use double diodes to feed VDD from VDD_USB when present
2019-06-06T23:57:53 < zyp> otherwise you're out of spec if somebody plugs in a device without the battery, or the battery dies while connected to usb
2019-06-06T23:59:38 < qyx> mhm
--- Day changed Fri Jun 07 2019
2019-06-07T00:00:07 < qyx> I wanted to avoid having a diode in the Vbat path
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2019-06-07T00:01:52 < qyx> so shorting VDD to VDD_USB and feeding both with a dual diode from Vbat and Vusb should work
2019-06-07T00:02:22 < qyx> violating only the power sequencing requirement
2019-06-07T00:04:15 < zyp> what requirement?
2019-06-07T00:04:48 < zyp> I think as long as VDD_USB is not powered before VDD, you're good
2019-06-07T00:05:15 < zyp> powering them at the same time is what already happens in the parts that have them internally bonded
2019-06-07T00:05:33 < qyx> However, V DD_USB must be the last
2019-06-07T00:05:34 < qyx> supply to be delivered to the device and the first to be switched off
2019-06-07T00:05:57 < qyx> ok, I would write it in the other way around
2019-06-07T00:06:03 < qyx> VDD_USB must not be the first power supply
2019-06-07T00:06:10 < zyp> if you power everything at once, everything is last
2019-06-07T00:06:24 < qyx> meh, ok, I$ll tie them together
2019-06-07T00:06:29 < zyp> :)
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2019-06-07T02:42:24 < jadew`> how do you guys spell it? email or e-mail?
2019-06-07T02:45:26 < jadew`> I seem to use both and I want to become consistent
2019-06-07T02:48:22 < kakimir> why
2019-06-07T02:48:41 < jadew`> I like consistency
2019-06-07T02:49:00 < kakimir> is anyone like: "Aha! I see you used last time e-mail and now you call it email1!!"
2019-06-07T02:49:04 < jadew`> I seem to use e-mail a lot more than email, so I'll go with e-mail
2019-06-07T02:49:16 < jadew`> kakimir, me
2019-06-07T02:49:29 < kakimir> remember: nobody cares
2019-06-07T02:50:36 < jadew`> it makes me seem sloppy and I don't like that
2019-06-07T02:52:23 < kakimir> if you care too much to perfect your text
2019-06-07T02:52:37 < kakimir> it makes it seem you have your priorities wrong
2019-06-07T02:52:40 < kakimir> or nothing to do
2019-06-07T02:53:12 < kakimir> non-human
2019-06-07T02:53:20 < kakimir> not honest
2019-06-07T02:53:20 < jadew`> lol
2019-06-07T02:53:30 < jadew`> what do you mean?
2019-06-07T02:54:06 < jadew`> you think that if you're not a little sloppy, it makes you seem dishonest?
2019-06-07T02:54:31 < kakimir> not strictly
2019-06-07T02:54:44 < jadew`> I think that's only true when you're saying something wrong
2019-06-07T02:55:03 < jadew`> people will give you some slack, because you're clumsy
2019-06-07T02:55:42 < jadew`> but I'm not sure which I'd rather have
2019-06-07T02:57:39 < jadew`> would you rather have people think you're stupid and ignore what you're saying, or hold you to high standards, with the risk of changing their attitudes towards you if you say something wrong?
2019-06-07T03:00:04 < kakimir> follow the golden line
2019-06-07T03:00:10 < kakimir> right in the middle
2019-06-07T03:10:10 < Ultrasauce> what if you go "hey did you see that email i sent you" and they say "technically you did not send me an email, you sent it to your isp's smtp server"
2019-06-07T03:10:29 < kakimir> general rule: stop autisming
2019-06-07T03:10:43 < kakimir> ask dongs
2019-06-07T03:11:16 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjvTy2u9qxE musics. encore ofc
2019-06-07T03:12:06 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ36d28plgc counter-musicspam
2019-06-07T03:13:06 < jadew`> your music is weird
2019-06-07T03:13:20 < kakimir> not enough drugs atm.
2019-06-07T03:13:37 < Ultrasauce> why the fuck would anyone want to listen to music that isn't weird
2019-06-07T03:14:04 < kakimir> :O
2019-06-07T03:14:44 < jadew`> I like simple, stupid music
2019-06-07T03:15:06 < englishman> skype using 60% cpu while idling in tray
2019-06-07T03:15:11 < englishman> time to remove it. not even chinks use it anymore
2019-06-07T03:15:19 < Ultrasauce> microsoft needs btc
2019-06-07T03:15:36 < jadew`> englishman, takes a lot of CPU to properly compress your webcam stream
2019-06-07T03:15:42 < jadew`> they're trying to save disk space
2019-06-07T03:15:48 < englishman> wow there were two installed
2019-06-07T03:16:00 < englishman> there. gone
2019-06-07T03:16:01 < englishman> end of an era
2019-06-07T03:16:12 < jadew`> skype?
2019-06-07T03:16:22 < englishman> yes
2019-06-07T03:16:29 < jadew`> what do people use these days?
2019-06-07T03:16:34 < jadew`> like... between strangers
2019-06-07T03:16:47 < englishman> whatsapp i guess but ive never used it
2019-06-07T03:16:49 < kakimir> we used it with chinese
2019-06-07T03:16:49 < englishman> normies use it
2019-06-07T03:16:53 < kakimir> and within company
2019-06-07T03:16:54 < englishman> brown people use telegram
2019-06-07T03:16:58 < englishman> chinks use wechat
2019-06-07T03:17:08 < jadew`> I use whatsapp, it's great, but I wouldn't use it to talk to China
2019-06-07T03:17:12 < englishman> i guess whatsapp is everywhere
2019-06-07T03:17:21 < qyx> I have never seen it
2019-06-07T03:17:26 < englishman> yeah not you
2019-06-07T03:17:29 < jadew`> last thing I need is getting regular calls from someone who can't speak english and can't understand me
2019-06-07T03:17:29 < englishman> i said normies use it
2019-06-07T03:17:43 < englishman> a call?
2019-06-07T03:17:46 < englishman> you can call with it?
2019-06-07T03:17:58 < jadew`> englishman, you can call, audio/video
2019-06-07T03:18:01 < jadew`> you can share location
2019-06-07T03:18:02 < qyx> apparently you disclose your number
2019-06-07T03:18:03 < englishman> i guess telegram can too
2019-06-07T03:18:04 < jadew`> you can share live location
2019-06-07T03:18:07 < jadew`> you get groups, etc
2019-06-07T03:18:09 < jadew`> it's awesome
2019-06-07T03:18:09 < englishman> tho ive never used it
2019-06-07T03:18:22 < englishman> how do i sign up to whatsapp without having a real phone
2019-06-07T03:18:37 < jadew`> just today my son came back from a trip and the teacher shared their live location on whatsapp with all the parents
2019-06-07T03:18:48 < jadew`> so we all knew where they are and when they'll get to the pick up spot
2019-06-07T03:19:00 < qyx> much stalking
2019-06-07T03:19:06 < jadew`> englishman, I don't think it works without a real phone
2019-06-07T03:19:31 < qyx> tbh the last chat my j2me phone supported was google talk using some xmpp client
2019-06-07T03:19:31 < jadew`> but the cool thing is that once you have it on your phone, you can use whatsapp web and use it from your PC like any other chat program
2019-06-07T03:19:36 < jadew`> they've done a really good job
2019-06-07T03:20:06 < qyx> except that they screwed all the crypto in the past
2019-06-07T03:20:08 < englishman> maybe i can sign up with my gvoice number
2019-06-07T03:20:13 < jadew`> oh, and it's all encrypted
2019-06-07T03:20:34 < englishman> sounds like every other messenger tbh
2019-06-07T03:20:35 < jadew`> they don't see your messages - not sure how much it matters, but it's cool to know that
2019-06-07T03:20:39 < englishman> like telegram, wechat
2019-06-07T03:20:49 < englishman> even signal if people still use that
2019-06-07T03:21:29 < qyx> it doesn't matter much because you can guess most of the conversation from the metadata
2019-06-07T03:22:54 < qyx> I mean, it is all great, but fuk them
2019-06-07T03:22:58 < qyx> they are just being lucky
2019-06-07T03:23:10 < jadew`> who?
2019-06-07T03:23:18 < qyx> whatsapp
2019-06-07T03:23:35 < englishman> WhatsApp is temporairly unavailable. Please try again in 1 hour.
2019-06-07T03:23:36 < englishman> nice
2019-06-07T03:23:40 < englishman> good experience so far
2019-06-07T03:23:52 < qyx> which reminds me, hows your vlc
2019-06-07T03:23:57 < englishman> doing gr8
2019-06-07T03:23:59 < qyx> still installed?
2019-06-07T03:24:01 < englishman> yea
2019-06-07T03:24:05 < englishman> on assdroid
2019-06-07T03:24:07 < englishman> not windoze
2019-06-07T03:24:15 < jadew`> vlc - the player?
2019-06-07T03:24:21 < englishman> it still has a couple bugs but it's better than any other assdroid player
2019-06-07T03:24:24 < qyx> oh longer than I expected
2019-06-07T03:24:56 < qyx> recently I discovered it can mount a remote share over sshfs
2019-06-07T03:25:09 < englishman> Your phone number is banned from using WhatsApp.
2019-06-07T03:25:10 < englishman> wut
2019-06-07T03:25:11 < qyx> for better encrypted music experience
2019-06-07T03:25:12 < englishman> good job
2019-06-07T03:25:32 < englishman> i dont give a shit about any of those hacker features
2019-06-07T03:25:48 < Ultrasauce> koreans all use kakao
2019-06-07T03:26:11 < englishman> so do i have to buy a real phone number like some old person slash millenial
2019-06-07T03:26:14 < englishman> to use whatsapp
2019-06-07T03:26:16 < englishman> ok uninstalling
2019-06-07T03:26:32 < kakimir> yes
2019-06-07T03:26:35 < jadew`> lol
2019-06-07T03:26:36 < englishman> this new internet does nothing for me
2019-06-07T03:26:45 < jadew`> englishman, what kind of phone number do you have?
2019-06-07T03:26:52 < englishman> voip, and one gvoice
2019-06-07T03:27:16 < qyx> this is kakao https://data.info.sk/photo/article/2016/03/87738/phpk3E3xa.jpg
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2019-06-07T03:29:22 < Ultrasauce> just make everyone you want to chat with use irc
2019-06-07T03:29:39 < englishman> telegram has been gr8
2019-06-07T03:30:56 < jadew`> I tried getting everyone on IRC at my old job
2019-06-07T03:30:59 < dongs> englishman lol, i activated my wahtsupp with google voice but tht was like 10 years ago
2019-06-07T03:31:01 < jadew`> it didn't catch on
2019-06-07T03:31:11 < dongs> i think they didnt have such checks on VOIP back then
2019-06-07T03:31:13 < jadew`> they got Slack
2019-06-07T03:31:21 < dongs> slack is completely disgusting
2019-06-07T03:31:31 < englishman> yeah im banned on the gvoice and a voip number
2019-06-07T03:31:32 < englishman> lol
2019-06-07T03:31:32 < englishman> so
2019-06-07T03:31:37 < englishman> only normies can use their shit
2019-06-07T03:31:42 < englishman> and particularly dumb normies
2019-06-07T03:32:48 < qyx> get the histogram card or how it was called
2019-06-07T03:33:19 < qyx> or theay are not giving e164 numbers?
2019-06-07T03:33:35 < englishman> ?
2019-06-07T03:33:42 < englishman> they are real numbers
2019-06-07T03:33:52 < englishman> some are even "real" numbers ported from landlines or cellphones
2019-06-07T03:33:58 < Ultrasauce> e624 numbers
2019-06-07T03:35:01 < qyx> idk I have never used such things, I assume the service could work without them
2019-06-07T03:35:22 < qyx> just using imsi or what
2019-06-07T03:37:10 < englishman> i got this mitsibishi lcd today
2019-06-07T03:37:12 < englishman> v nice
2019-06-07T03:37:16 < englishman> v industrial
2019-06-07T03:37:42 < dongs> does it have a slot for rageberrypi compute module
2019-06-07T03:37:46 < englishman> way
2019-06-07T03:37:47 < englishman> wat
2019-06-07T03:37:48 < englishman> no
2019-06-07T03:37:51 < dongs> o wait that was NEC or someshit
2019-06-07T03:37:58 < englishman> it's far too expensive for mak:ers
2019-06-07T03:38:06 < englishman> NEC was bought by tianma
2019-06-07T03:38:11 < dongs> who
2019-06-07T03:38:21 < englishman> and is now their industrial panel division
2019-06-07T03:38:26 < englishman> called NLT
2019-06-07T03:38:55 < englishman> so they could steal their not-quite-ips-but-just-as-good-but-cheaper-but-not-really technology
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2019-06-07T06:30:40 < jly> crt https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-48551669
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2019-06-07T07:01:51 < dongs> good job crt. you thought they'll never find them inside speakers huh
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2019-06-07T07:30:24 < emeb_mac> lol
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2019-06-07T08:59:46 < dongs> https://www.rootbeer.com/pledge-form/?
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2019-06-07T09:18:36 < emeb_mac> I go technology-free for 6-8hrs a day.
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2019-06-07T09:42:49 < qyx> should I put 22R USB resistors close to the connector or stm32?
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2019-06-07T09:46:36 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/RHwAtqq.png no place left for FSK transmitter and antenna :(
2019-06-07T09:47:17 < dongs> watcha making, esp14/88?
2019-06-07T09:48:39 < qyx> just a logging temp/hum with 8digit 14-segment LCD and L073
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2019-06-07T09:53:57 < dongs> why does it look like you got a breakout for stm there
2019-06-07T09:53:58 < dongs> or something weird
2019-06-07T09:54:35 < dongs> also wtf is this? kikecad?
2019-06-07T09:54:43 < dongs> layout
2019-06-07T09:59:52 < qyx> it is just a lcd
2019-06-07T09:59:58 < dongs> ohh!
2019-06-07T10:00:12 < qyx> looks like breakout, every single available segment driver is used
2019-06-07T10:00:12 < dongs> like segmented thing?
2019-06-07T10:00:16 < dongs> nice
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2019-06-07T10:03:33 < Thorn> what is U3
2019-06-07T10:04:14 < qyx> Si4012
2019-06-07T10:04:36 < Thorn> why not sx1276
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2019-06-07T10:05:15 < qyx> because not 0.50e
2019-06-07T10:05:39 < dongs> isnt SX the LoRA shit
2019-06-07T10:06:56 < Thorn> I use it for fsk
2019-06-07T10:07:13 < dongs> also qyx's shit is just TX
2019-06-07T10:07:18 < dongs> yours is tranceiver
2019-06-07T10:07:20 < qyx> yeah but it is like 10x more expensive
2019-06-07T10:07:28 < dongs> also QFN'
2019-06-07T10:07:29 < qyx> I only need dumb tx
2019-06-07T10:07:40 < dongs> not soldderable by brokebitches
2019-06-07T10:07:45 < qyx> qfn is great
2019-06-07T10:07:51 < qyx> I like it more than tssop
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2019-06-07T11:56:32 < kakimir> +b
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2019-06-07T12:04:08 < qyx> https://i.imgur.com/EEiBU4x.png
2019-06-07T12:04:12 < qyx> such antenna, will it work?
2019-06-07T12:04:31 < qyx> it should be a short whip tuned by a series inductance
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2019-06-07T12:22:50 < jpa-> qyx: because of the proximity of the ground plane at the other end, i doubt it will work like a whip; but it will probably work like an antenna anyway
2019-06-07T12:23:13 < karlp> is that an lcd on top? with the big dipfootprint?
2019-06-07T12:23:18 < karlp> ah yeah, LCD1
2019-06-07T12:23:36 < dongs> yeah he said lcd. segmented thing and he's using L0's segment controller thing to drive it i guess
2019-06-07T12:23:59 < jpa-> brave people solder that LCD unsocketed :)
2019-06-07T12:24:18 < qyx> haha
2019-06-07T12:24:31 < qyx> yeah, I will probably use a socket for the first board
2019-06-07T12:24:56 < dongs> whats it look like?
2019-06-07T12:25:01 < dongs> is it like a dot matrix thing?
2019-06-07T12:25:06 < dongs> or like 7segment-like shit
2019-06-07T12:25:27 < qyx> https://www.tme.eu/en/details/de301-rs-20_6.35-3/lcd-digital-displays/display-elektronik/de-301-rs-20-6-35-m-3-volt/
2019-06-07T12:26:05 < qyx> they say 7 segment on that page, but it is actually a 14-segment
2019-06-07T12:26:13 < dongs> ok so like 14 segment or so
2019-06-07T12:26:20 < jpa-> looks similar to what L1 discovery has
2019-06-07T12:26:24 < dongs> aye
2019-06-07T12:26:33 < dongs> i think l1 is less digits tho
2019-06-07T12:26:57 < jpa-> 7 segments is enough to write BOOBS though, so not sure what you'll use the 7 extra for
2019-06-07T12:27:08 < dongs> DONGS
2019-06-07T12:27:29 < jpa-> true
2019-06-07T12:27:53 < qyx> also, 3volt version is out of stock
2019-06-07T12:28:00 < qyx> I hope the 5volt one will work somehow
2019-06-07T12:28:10 < dongs> RIP
2019-06-07T12:28:45 < qyx> the stm32 can generate 3.55V max
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2019-06-07T12:29:53 < qyx> jpa-: thats enough for now, I'll call it semiwhip
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2019-06-07T12:30:38 < jpa-> qyx: you can call it whip loop hybrid
2019-06-07T12:33:50 < zyp> hmm
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2019-06-07T12:34:59 < zyp> https://no.farnell.com/schurter/3413-0328-22/fuse-smd-ust-1206-10a/dp/1829471
2019-06-07T12:35:02 < zyp> 10A, slow blow
2019-06-07T12:35:16 < zyp> managed to blow one of those yesterday
2019-06-07T12:35:43 < zyp> due to grounding issues or something
2019-06-07T12:37:43 < zyp> so I've got a 48V supply, both negative and positive are isolated from ground on the supply end
2019-06-07T12:38:06 < zyp> goes into my device, which apparently got negative supply hooked to chassis ground in one point
2019-06-07T12:38:20 < zyp> actually, disregard chassis ground
2019-06-07T12:38:49 < zyp> I also have a service port, with can bus, that attaches to a usb/can adapter plugged into my laptop, which again is grounded through the power supply
2019-06-07T12:39:20 < zyp> so yesterday I were plugging in this service port thing and that caused the fuse to blow
2019-06-07T12:39:40 < zyp> turning off the 48V supplies before plugging it in eliminates the problem
2019-06-07T12:40:11 < zyp> so, uh, wat? :p
2019-06-07T12:40:55 < zyp> I can understand there being some potential differences between a floating supply and proper ground
2019-06-07T12:41:05 < zyp> but enough to blow a 10A slow blow fuse?
2019-06-07T12:41:48 < zyp> and what's the right solution? (apart from a galvanically isolated usb/can interface) bonding negative to ground at the supply end?
2019-06-07T12:42:39 < sync> wut
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2019-06-07T12:42:53 < zyp> yeah, this shit is weird
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2019-06-07T15:27:29 < Thorn> qyx: I understand most stm32 don't need 22Ω resistors for USB, including F0 & L0
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2019-06-07T15:39:37 < Cracki> has anyone ever used "incremental" flash writes, i.e. appending single bytes to what's already in a page? I'm facing eeprom emulation and I'm wondering if I can be a little more economical by doing a "journal". logical writes will mostly consist of single bytes/words
2019-06-07T15:40:49 < Cracki> from my understanding of flash, the erase cycle costs lifetime because it flips bits one way, but writing flips them the other way, and that should allow me to "or" data onto the page.
2019-06-07T15:41:38 < Thorn> yeah setting bits to 0 shouldn't count towards lifetime cyles
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2019-06-07T15:44:28 < karlp> englishman: was on two skype ccalls this morning, first one was a train wreck. switched to whatsapp, was like a breath of fresh air.  I moved mum to whatsapp a year or two ago, been very happy too. sucks it doesn't like yournumbers
2019-06-07T15:45:00 < Cracki> HAL_FLASH_Program says it does half/single/double words. I hope it does that immediately. from other chips I was only used to programming whole pages.
2019-06-07T15:45:26 < englishman> lol
2019-06-07T15:45:37 < englishman> maybe il sign up next burner phone I have to buy
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2019-06-07T15:49:07 < rajkosto> hey theres this SOT-23-5 package with MBFAX written on the chip what is it i cant find anything
2019-06-07T15:55:58 < dongs> yeah skype is disgusting
2019-06-07T15:56:01 < dongs> nobody should be usin that shit
2019-06-07T15:56:08 < dongs> but whatsapp uses OPUS audio codec
2019-06-07T15:56:09 < dongs> opensores FILTH
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2019-06-07T15:56:36 < Thorn> are there cheap / easy to obtain 3g modules?
2019-06-07T15:56:57 < mawk> I've seen simcom ones around aliexpress
2019-06-07T15:59:39 < zyp> Cracki, yeah, overwriting works fine
2019-06-07T16:00:01 < Cracki> found the appnote for eeprom emulation. it does what I would have (eventually) come up with :)
2019-06-07T16:00:18 < zyp> as long as your flash doesn't have ECC or shit like that :)
2019-06-07T16:00:24 < Cracki> now if they give me code with that appnote, I'm maximally happy
2019-06-07T16:00:30 < Cracki> hah I doubt it :P
2019-06-07T16:01:03 < Cracki> only the L series has internal eeprom so I'm quite content with telling boss that he just has to pick moar flash
2019-06-07T16:01:51 < zyp> the TI shit I'm working on has ECC per 64-bit half-line, so I can't rewrite one without it calculating a new checksum that most likely can't overwrite the old checksum
2019-06-07T16:02:12 < Cracki> ok so 64 bit minimum write size
2019-06-07T16:02:32 < zyp> yeah, so I'm using 64-bit records in my parameter storage system
2019-06-07T16:02:55 < zyp> 32 bits for metadata and 32 bits for data per record, worked out nicely
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2019-06-07T16:03:11 < Cracki> you don't happen to have spun that off into a library, eh?
2019-06-07T16:03:23 < zyp> no, but hang on
2019-06-07T16:03:59 < Cracki> the appnote says it has some demo source, that helps save time already
2019-06-07T16:04:17 < Cracki> but I'm always curious to see what variations people put on the theme
2019-06-07T16:04:36 < Thorn> sim53xx look expensive
2019-06-07T16:05:12 < zyp> Cracki, roughly this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/8gXgI
2019-06-07T16:05:20 < Cracki> much obliged
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2019-06-07T16:09:12 < zyp> disregard lines 32-33, those are just initializing some other stuff
2019-06-07T16:12:28 < Cracki> thx. I'll probably make use of those unions as well
2019-06-07T16:13:28 < zyp> I've considered adding a type field in one of the reserved bytes in the record
2019-06-07T16:14:03 < zyp> so it can catch errors when reading different types than the stored one
2019-06-07T16:15:06 < zyp> once I have that, I can also add a "deleted"-type, which signals that a record shouldn't be kept when defragmenting
2019-06-07T16:17:28 < qyx> dongs: opus is silk&lpc combined, silk is originally skypes's codec
2019-06-07T16:18:51 < qyx> also, it is awesome
2019-06-07T16:20:04 < jpa-> Cracki: biggest gotcha with flash writing is that on many (all?) stm32 families, it stops running code for a few milliseconds while the flash is being written
2019-06-07T16:20:54 < zyp> jpa-, milliseconds? just for a write, not only erase?
2019-06-07T16:21:21 < jpa-> well probably not milliseconds for a single word write, but if you write a page it'll take about that long
2019-06-07T16:21:32 < jpa-> and erase is long also, and eventually you'll need to erase
2019-06-07T16:21:55 < zyp> true
2019-06-07T16:22:32 < jpa-> 50us for a 16-bit word, 20ms for a page erase
2019-06-07T16:22:59 < zyp> my shit has two banks
2019-06-07T16:23:25 < zyp> so it can work on the config bank without interrupting main bank
2019-06-07T16:24:06 < zyp> on the other hand, write operations on main bank doesn't halt accesses, accesses to the main bank aborts write operations
2019-06-07T16:24:24 < zyp> so my bootloader has to run partly from ram :p
2019-06-07T16:24:32 < jpa-> IIRC even the eeprom in stm32l1 causes those pauses, which is kind of strange
2019-06-07T16:28:08 < Steffanx> Is it?
2019-06-07T16:28:50 < jpa-> well they call it "true eeprom", which kind of sounds like it would be separate from the flash
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2019-06-07T17:04:29 < karlp> write times to flash on l1 are wayyyy slower than write to flash on f4 too 
2019-06-07T17:04:49 < karlp> something like 1-2ms, regardless of word, or half page, or erase, all ops teh same.
2019-06-07T17:13:01 < Steffanx> At least they made a nice app note (AN4808) about it jpa- 
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2019-06-07T18:35:46 < Steffanx> Welcome mr tomeaton17  hows mr student?
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2019-06-07T19:13:44 < englishman> Thorn: how cheap?
2019-06-07T19:17:10 < Thorn> $0
2019-06-07T19:17:24 < Thorn> < $5
2019-06-07T19:18:57 < Thorn> high quality musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l8Fc7cMi7o
2019-06-07T19:27:45 < englishman> so does Russia make any 3g modules because ublox is infinity times more expensive. although they are still cheap
2019-06-07T19:30:36 < Thorn> wtf $60
2019-06-07T19:30:37 < Thorn> is $60 cheap?
2019-06-07T19:32:26 < englishman> in singles? who cares
2019-06-07T19:34:05 < englishman> wait til you see what dragonfly wants for their inferior garbage
2019-06-07T19:34:07 < Thorn> well $32 qty 250 -- is that cheap?
2019-06-07T19:34:14 < englishman> I'm buying those for $20 in qty
2019-06-07T19:34:29 < englishman> yeah that's pretty cheap
2019-06-07T19:34:33 < englishman> 4g too
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2019-06-07T19:42:20 < karlp> Thorn: neat track
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2019-06-07T20:11:34 < upgrdman> :) https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/9fns2v/this_dickhead_refused_to_just_let_his_truck_get/
2019-06-07T20:14:25 < qyx> englishman: quacktel?
2019-06-07T20:14:31 < qyx> or was it dongs
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2019-06-07T20:31:05 < pwr_on> im looking for a document or something that contains all HAL functions with a description. I just started out programming the stm32f103C and am trying to set up a external interrupt. But its kinda hard to find solid info
2019-06-07T20:31:35 < pwr_on> is there a document or something like that
2019-06-07T20:31:37 < pwr_on> ?
2019-06-07T20:35:25 < mawk> read source code
2019-06-07T20:35:36 < mawk> but for external interrupts it's pretty easy
2019-06-07T20:36:08 < mawk> you set the pin in the right mode, set NVIC, and just do the proper EXTI IRQ handler
2019-06-07T20:36:09 < Steffanx> Examples isnt enough per?
2019-06-07T20:36:31 < Steffanx> And datasheet.
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2019-06-07T20:36:33 < mawk> read the .c of HAL source code pwr_on it contains all the doxygen doc
2019-06-07T20:36:40 < mawk> if you're a doxygen ninja you can even generate a .html out of it
2019-06-07T20:36:59 < mawk> oddly ST doesn't provide Doxyfile, but it's pretty standard set it in automatic recursive mode and it will spit out docs for yoyu
2019-06-07T20:37:01 < Steffanx> Anyway, reading the datasheet and then figuring out what function you could use is always a pain
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2019-06-07T20:39:59 < pwr_on> ok so reading all the hal c files should contain all the info I need
2019-06-07T20:43:50 < pwr_on> but theres no API doc or something?
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2019-06-07T21:01:02 < mawk> the doc is inside the .c files I said pwr_on 
2019-06-07T21:01:04 < mawk> as comments
2019-06-07T21:01:16 < mawk> and you can generate the api docs you want in .pdf or .html using doxygen
2019-06-07T21:01:33 < mawk> there is also a fat explanation text at the start of every .c
2019-06-07T21:01:39 < mawk> telling you how to use the functions there
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2019-06-07T21:36:19 < Thorn> is simcom much worse than ublox? wrt 3g modules
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2019-06-07T22:37:38 < mawk> ah so you followed my advice
2019-06-07T22:37:42  * mawk is proud
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2019-06-07T23:12:20 < Cracki> hal docs are doxygen. I've seen them as .chm files in cubemx...
2019-06-07T23:12:41 < Cracki> no need to generate anything
2019-06-07T23:13:11 < Cracki> navigating those is a little funky. the html itself has usable nav, but the chm tree only lists leaf links
2019-06-07T23:20:56 < jadew`> never liked doxygen
2019-06-07T23:20:59 < Cracki> same
2019-06-07T23:21:24 < jadew`> I did use it in the past, but I wasn't happy with the output
2019-06-07T23:21:30 < Cracki> leads people to say "this function takes three arguments and returns an error value"
2019-06-07T23:21:52 < Cracki> instead of saying "welcome, let me explain why all this source even exists"
2019-06-07T23:22:46 < rajkosto> welcome to your doom
2019-06-07T23:26:18 < jadew`> here's a good question tho
2019-06-07T23:26:28 < jadew`> do you think anyone would pay for a better documentation generator?
2019-06-07T23:27:35 < Cracki> apart from the fact that there are better ones out there, even free ones afaik, and docs are most improved by whipping those who write them poorly...
2019-06-07T23:27:55 < Cracki> I'm sure you can sell anything to companies if it comes with enough care and handholding
2019-06-07T23:28:29 < Cracki> today I learned that there's a company that makes a POWERPOINT PLUGIN that just makes things look pretty and they are rolling in cash
2019-06-07T23:28:45 < Cracki> pretty as in consistent alignment and whatnot
2019-06-07T23:28:46 < jadew`> heh
2019-06-07T23:29:09 < Cracki> their whole task is to make weekly releases the user doesn't even notice because they can hook and unhook in a live powerpoint process
2019-06-07T23:29:35 < Cracki> their target audience is consultants and other suits
2019-06-07T23:30:16 < Cracki> visit docs.opencv.org for something doxygen-based but still bearable
2019-06-07T23:30:30 < jadew`> I have, many times
2019-06-07T23:30:35 < jadew`> I don't find that bearable
2019-06-07T23:30:42 < Cracki> it's still doygen-typical trees and a huge mess, but opencv somehow manages to write tutorials and halfway decent guides/introductions to modules
2019-06-07T23:31:56 < Cracki> python used to have something other than sphinx, or it was just a weird stylesheet... but there was a time when I was very disgusted by the docs
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2019-06-07T23:32:33 < Cracki> opencv used sphinx once too. I liked that.
2019-06-07T23:33:31 < Cracki> doxygen is for java, like eclipse is. there's an obvious impedance mismatch with anything else.
2019-06-07T23:36:07 < Cracki> opencv's docs contain several rivaling trees of knowledge. you can find something easily one way, but it's impossible via another tree
2019-06-07T23:36:07 < jadew`> hmm, looks like commercial ones sell for like 300+ GBP per license
2019-06-07T23:36:20 < Cracki> one time cost? that sounds dirt cheap
2019-06-07T23:36:34 < jadew`> I'm sitting on something like this, but I'd have to put a couple more months of work into it to get it market ready
2019-06-07T23:37:08 < jadew`> I should give it a try, but I don't know how I'd go about pushing it
2019-06-07T23:37:16 < Cracki> compatible with any existing source format styles?
2019-06-07T23:37:37 < jadew`> yeah, it can consume doxygen format
2019-06-07T23:38:00 < jadew`> but it has a different mechanism
2019-06-07T23:48:45 < karlp> Cracki: what's a better documentation generator for C/C++ code?
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2019-06-08T00:10:38 < kakimir> hello dear
2019-06-08T00:17:25 < Steffanx> Hello honey.
2019-06-08T00:18:53 < kakimir> how was your day?
2019-06-08T00:19:51 < Steffanx> Fineish
2019-06-08T00:20:28 < zyp> Finnish
2019-06-08T00:23:05 < zyp> on documentation generators: they are tools, not solutions
2019-06-08T00:23:11 < zyp> feed shit in, get shit out
2019-06-08T00:25:39 < Steffanx> Feed good quality stuff in, get shit out
2019-06-08T00:25:56 < zyp> haha :)
2019-06-08T00:26:25 < zyp> I guess quality is more or less orthogonal to suitability for documentation generators
2019-06-08T00:28:18 < zyp> documentation generators extract documentation from the code, which means that to get something useful out, there needs to be useful documentation in the code in the first place
2019-06-08T00:29:04 < zyp> and personally I'm not really a fan of overly verbose comments interleaved with the code
2019-06-08T00:29:16 < zyp> I find they make the code hard to navigate when working on it
2019-06-08T00:29:44 < zyp> like, if the file is 75% comments and 25% code, the actual code tends to get lost in the noise
2019-06-08T00:30:14 < zyp> on the other hand, I'm not really sure what's a better alternative either
2019-06-08T00:30:52 < zyp> good documentation > no documentation, obviously
2019-06-08T00:31:13 < Cracki> code editor that folds all that away
2019-06-08T00:31:35 < Cracki> I dislike pages of comments as well
2019-06-08T00:31:49 < zyp> but maintaining documentation separate from the code sounds like it'll easily suffer from going out of sync
2019-06-08T00:32:32 < Cracki> I'd improve the situation by moving that stuff out of the source code, and use tools to check if it's in sync (signatures)
2019-06-08T00:32:45 < Cracki> i.e. basically move docs to headers
2019-06-08T00:32:46 < zyp> yeah, I was about to suggest the same
2019-06-08T00:32:57 < zyp> no, headers are code
2019-06-08T00:33:21 < Cracki> well, header, and then "header" which has the signature again, but then the real documentation
2019-06-08T00:33:44 < Cracki> and tool support to bitch if sigs differ, so at least you notice that
2019-06-08T00:34:06 < zyp> yeah, I figure a tool that could pull all the signatures and match them to separate documentation files that contains all the long novels would be good
2019-06-08T00:34:16 < rajkosto> those things would ALWAYS go out of sync
2019-06-08T00:34:35 < Cracki> "building docs" is already tool support
2019-06-08T00:34:38 < zyp> not if enforced by CI
2019-06-08T00:34:42 < Cracki> if you don't build docs, all you have are comments
2019-06-08T00:34:56 < Cracki> and doc building can trivially check that this stuff is in sync
2019-06-08T00:35:25 < karlp> I'm considering moving all the comments in locm3 from the .c files to the .h files.
2019-06-08T00:35:28 < Cracki> simplest to demand character-level equality
2019-06-08T00:35:36 < zyp> CI could enforce a rule that signatures that is missing from or doesn't match documentation blocks the merge
2019-06-08T00:35:47 < karlp> doxygen doesn't care for the generated stuff, but netbeans at least will show the .h comments in the inline help automatically
2019-06-08T00:36:03 < karlp> and I'd rather have the long novels in the .h file than in the .c files.
2019-06-08T00:36:12 < karlp> zyp:just because you write c++ and _only_ have h files :)
2019-06-08T00:36:34 < Cracki> personally, I prefer docs _underneath_ signature because the signature is a kind of heading
2019-06-08T00:36:55 < zyp> karlp, well, recently I've been trying out experimental compiler support for the new C++20 thing of only having .cppm files instead
2019-06-08T00:36:58 < Cracki> doesn't work for code files, only for headers, but then I don't want that shit out of my code anyway
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2019-06-08T00:37:29 < Cracki> eventually, when header files have become obsolete, they'd be solely for docs purposes
2019-06-08T00:37:45 < zyp> karlp, it's pretty awesome until you run into the edge of current tool support
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2019-06-08T01:34:29 < jadew`> zyp, regarding your code generation comments, my tool solves exactly that
2019-06-08T01:34:43 < jadew`> it separates documentation from code, while still keeping them in sync
2019-06-08T01:34:55 < zyp> what tool is this?
2019-06-08T01:34:57 < jadew`> and combines external documentation with comments
2019-06-08T01:35:35 < jadew`> it's one I haven't released yet, and I was wondering if it's worth putting in the time to get it to the point I can sell it
2019-06-08T01:35:46 < jadew`> let me grab a screenshot of the generated documentation
2019-06-08T01:36:29 < zyp> how are you planning to handle licensing?
2019-06-08T01:36:39 < jadew`> that's the thing, I haven't thought about any of that
2019-06-08T01:36:44 < jadew`> initially I wanted to make it opensource
2019-06-08T01:36:47 < jadew`> but then I woke up
2019-06-08T01:37:11 < zyp> IMO paid tools in general are annoying due to stuff like build automation
2019-06-08T01:37:16 < jadew`> so I kinda stopped developing it once I was able to do what I wanted to do with it
2019-06-08T01:37:25 < jadew`> zyp, what do you mean?
2019-06-08T01:37:33 < zyp> e.g. if I wanna container up your tool and put it on a public CI pipeline
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2019-06-08T01:38:16 < jadew`> I see
2019-06-08T01:38:23 < jadew`> well, I guess it wouldn't be for public stuff
2019-06-08T01:39:15 < zyp> what if I want to container it up and put it on a private CI pipeline?
2019-06-08T01:39:46 < jadew`> yeah... don't know
2019-06-08T01:39:49 < jadew`> how would you solve that?
2019-06-08T01:40:16 < zyp> I'd probably make it opensource instead of trying to charge money for it
2019-06-08T01:40:30 < jadew`> and I'd make money from what?
2019-06-08T01:40:44 < zyp> could probably make more from donations than from sales, just due to increased interest
2019-06-08T01:41:32 < Cracki> the business model for open source is selling *service*, i.e. development, customization, *setup*, handjobs, ...
2019-06-08T01:41:44 < jadew`> yeah, I'm not into that
2019-06-08T01:41:51 < Cracki> I kinda figured
2019-06-08T01:41:51 < jadew`> I don't want to work so I can sell more work
2019-06-08T01:42:01 < Cracki> you can automate that work too :>
2019-06-08T01:42:10 < zyp> or just making some shit because you need it yourself, and release it so other people can improve it for you :p
2019-06-08T01:42:32 < jadew`> zyp, I'm not naive anymore, I know that doesn't happen :)
2019-06-08T01:42:38 < Cracki> you could ignore DRM and just declare a license that requires commercial use to be paid
2019-06-08T01:42:50 < jadew`> you make some shit so people can improve it for you, and instead they take all the good bits and start their own projects
2019-06-08T01:42:58 < Cracki> and if they aren't honest about it, sic a lawyer on them
2019-06-08T01:43:07 < Cracki> I feel you man
2019-06-08T01:43:47 < Cracki> I made some interesting shit for video processing, and a few people just claimed "we did this" because I also built up that group, while kicking me to the curb
2019-06-08T01:44:04 < Cracki> then I discovered compilation and binary distribution and aggressive marketing
2019-06-08T01:44:16 < Cracki> they can't claim it's theirs when your name is all over it
2019-06-08T01:44:24 < zyp> heh
2019-06-08T01:45:18 < Cracki> (the stuff is python, so instead of py2exe/pycompiler monstrosities, I used cython to make ~200 kB executables and dlls, and the rest has to be installed properly)
2019-06-08T01:45:26 < jadew`> zyp, if you're interested I can give you a nice screenshot, but as a PM, I don't want to put it here, since it's from another project I don't want to share with the world (altho, it was meant to be opensource)
2019-06-08T01:45:49 < zyp> sure sure
2019-06-08T01:45:55 < jadew`> ok, give me a sec
2019-06-08T01:48:29 < jadew`> none of that stuff is in the comments
2019-06-08T01:48:43 < jadew`> except maybe some of the parameter info
2019-06-08T01:48:48 < jadew`> (it combines stuff)
2019-06-08T01:49:13 < jadew`> but you can leave the source file with no comments and still have full documentation generated
2019-06-08T01:51:19 < zyp> output looks formatted nicely enough, but that's something any documentation generator can do given the right stylesheets, how does the input look? :)
2019-06-08T01:51:40 < jadew`> the input also looks good, text format, very easy to edit
2019-06-08T01:51:49 < zyp> also, what languages does it support? I'm totally uninterested in the one in your example :p
2019-06-08T01:51:53 < jadew`> I documented that entire project (and it's rather big) using it
2019-06-08T01:52:06 < jadew`> and it felt like a huge relief compared to classic generators
2019-06-08T01:52:40 < jadew`> zyp, it can support any language, but that's where the more work part is
2019-06-08T01:52:51 < jadew`> it's very decoupled
2019-06-08T01:52:55 < zyp> and at the moment?
2019-06-08T01:53:07 < jadew`> just that one
2019-06-08T01:53:16 < zyp> ha, okay
2019-06-08T01:53:21 < zyp> got an example of the input?
2019-06-08T01:53:26 < jadew`> yeah, give me a sec
2019-06-08T01:56:06 < jadew`> as you change the code, it syncs the file containing that
2019-06-08T01:56:28 < jadew`> also made a syntax thing for my editor at the time, which makes it very easy to edit
2019-06-08T01:57:18 < zyp> okay
2019-06-08T01:57:55 < jadew`> when it goes out of sync it lets you know, so you can correct it, also very simple procedure, and hasn't bothered me much
2019-06-08T01:59:00 < jadew`> I could opensource it I guess, but I don't want to work on other people's feature requests
2019-06-08T02:02:15 < jadew`> zyp, think if I did people would adopt it?
2019-06-08T02:02:43 < jadew`> there's a comma missing there
2019-06-08T02:03:02 < jadew`> I don't want to go through all that trouble and only get 10 users
2019-06-08T02:03:50 < zyp> dunno
2019-06-08T02:04:08 < jadew`> would you use it? considering it solves the very thing you were complaining about
2019-06-08T02:04:17 < jadew`> (which is also the thing I was complaining about when I wrote it)
2019-06-08T02:04:59 < zyp> I like the idea, but I'm not sure I like the implementation
2019-06-08T02:05:17 < jadew`> but you don't know much about the implementation
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2019-06-08T02:06:01 < jadew`> which part?
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2019-06-08T02:06:28 < zyp> the html-ish markup is one reason
2019-06-08T02:06:38 < jadew`> ah, that's not part of docpiler
2019-06-08T02:06:46 < jadew`> that's custom
2019-06-08T02:06:56 < jadew`> and it's what I chose to go with for this particular project
2019-06-08T02:07:00 < zyp> I think I'd prefer something markdown-ish
2019-06-08T02:07:11 < jadew`> that's perfectly doable
2019-06-08T02:07:23 < jadew`> there's another processor on top of it, in this case it's using that type of markup
2019-06-08T02:07:43 < zyp> also, what's the implementation language? i.e. what runtime do I need to be able to run it?
2019-06-08T02:07:52 < jadew`> it's c++
2019-06-08T02:08:00 < zyp> oh, okay
2019-06-08T02:08:09 < zyp> using any nonstandard libs?
2019-06-08T02:08:09 < jadew`> runs natively on windows and linux
2019-06-08T02:08:32 < jadew`> not from what I recall, maybe some boost, but I don't know
2019-06-08T02:08:40 < zyp> that's reasonable
2019-06-08T02:09:28 < jadew`> the reason I didn't go for markdown was because I wanted some features that markdown didn't have
2019-06-08T02:09:48 < jadew`> like see also and various type of formatting, cross-linking etc
2019-06-08T02:10:04 < jadew`> so I came up with something on the spot
2019-06-08T02:10:14 < jadew`> but again, it's independent of the documentation compiler
2019-06-08T02:10:49 < zyp> there's common ways to extend markdown to add stuff like that
2019-06-08T02:11:03 < jadew`> I wasn't aware of it
2019-06-08T02:16:01 < jadew`> is it more appealing now?
2019-06-08T02:16:25 < jadew`> let's say it did c++
2019-06-08T02:16:59 < zyp> starting to get somewhere
2019-06-08T02:17:29 < jadew`> btw, the reason I didn't add c++ support is because the IDE seems to do a really good job
2019-06-08T02:17:51 < zyp> _the_ IDE
2019-06-08T02:18:01 < jadew`> the one and true IDE
2019-06-08T02:18:09 < jadew`> Visual Studio
2019-06-08T02:19:02 < jadew`> you can quickly navigate to source and figure stuff out if you need clarifications for the small stuff
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2019-06-08T02:19:13 < jadew`> and big stuff will usually have good enough documentation somewhere else
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2019-06-08T02:31:33 < jadew`> I have more stuff I wanted to ask people's opinion about, but I have this thing where I don't like showing people my work
2019-06-08T02:31:46 < jadew`> I actually have something that everyone here will want to use
2019-06-08T02:32:03 < Cracki> little question about english terms. in german we have Lastenheft, which is what the customer thinks they want (goals/ends), and Pflichtenheft, which is what the contractor suggests for implementation (methods/means). how would that distinction be made in english?
2019-06-08T02:33:04 < jadew`> in one word?
2019-06-08T02:33:14 < Cracki> probably not
2019-06-08T02:33:32 < jadew`> requirements vs solution
2019-06-08T02:34:11 < jadew`> but it's interesting that you have a word that suggests the customer is stupid and doesn't always knows what he wants
2019-06-08T02:34:24 < jadew`> because it's usually true, when it comes to things that have to be developed
2019-06-08T02:34:38 < Cracki> project managment is all about the dance
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2019-06-08T02:35:02 < zyp> I tried google translate, it doesn't seem to make that distinction, both turns into some variant of «specifications»
2019-06-08T02:35:14 < Cracki> expectations management is in there too. don't overpromise. be like scotty.
2019-06-08T02:35:53 < zyp> does the heft-part of the word mean booklet?
2019-06-08T02:36:32 < Cracki> typical explanation is like Lasten is what _you_ put on the donkey, and Pflichten is the _donkey's_ duty to carry that. which is silly and doesn't hit the point just right, but helps remember which is which
2019-06-08T02:36:38 < Cracki> yes, basically
2019-06-08T02:37:09 < Cracki> heften often translates as "to staple"
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2019-06-08T02:37:26 < zyp> wikipedia says «product requirements document» and «scope statement»
2019-06-08T02:37:31 < zyp> respectively
2019-06-08T02:37:36 < jadew`> Cracki, in what scenarios would that distinction be useful?
2019-06-08T02:37:51 < zyp> ref https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_requirements_document https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_statement
2019-06-08T02:37:59 < Cracki> customer says "we want our goats to stop escaping"
2019-06-08T02:38:06 < Cracki> contractor says "ok we'll give them concrete shoes"
2019-06-08T02:38:34 < jadew`> there's a saying about things like that in romanian
2019-06-08T02:38:45 < zyp> so basically «here's what we want» and «here's what we'll do»
2019-06-08T02:38:47 < jadew`> "where you hit and where it cracks..."
2019-06-08T02:39:39 < Cracki> the point of this is to distinguish WHAT the customer wants from HOW to achieve it. the customer doesn't particularly care about the how, and the contractor doesn't care about the what... unless the What/How turns out to really be a How/What
2019-06-08T02:40:16 < zyp> well, I'd call the first one requirements
2019-06-08T02:40:18 < jadew`> Cracki, how is that not clear tho?
2019-06-08T02:40:23 < jadew`> that's what I don't understand
2019-06-08T02:41:18 < Cracki> customer might come up with his own solutions, which can be stupid. kinda like micromanaging.
2019-06-08T02:41:23 < zyp> the second one I don't really have a fitting word for in my common vocabulary, I'd probably just call it a project specification or something
2019-06-08T02:41:35 < jadew`> I thought what you were asking was more about the fact that the customer sometimes doesn't even understand the requirements
2019-06-08T02:41:39 < jadew`> or even the problem
2019-06-08T02:41:41 < zyp> also I'm glad I don't, this sounds like bullshit work
2019-06-08T02:41:54 < Cracki> so the idea with clearing these things up is that both sides talk about the process and figure out what's important (the goal), and what's not important (the way)
2019-06-08T02:42:05 < Cracki> that's part of it
2019-06-08T02:42:19 < jadew`> well, the way is important too
2019-06-08T02:42:35 < zyp> requirements/methods of acheiving them
2019-06-08T02:42:37 < Cracki> of course, which is why the customer sees that and can discuss changes to it, or to the requirements
2019-06-08T02:42:39 < zyp> etc
2019-06-08T02:42:40 < jadew`> because the way can cost you 10k or 1 million
2019-06-08T02:43:04 < Cracki> the point is that the customer isn't a specialist in How
2019-06-08T02:43:27 < jadew`> Cracki, ok... the way I'd describe what went on whenever I talked to my boss or other people needing shit done it's this:
2019-06-08T02:43:44 < jadew`> 1) customer has an ache.
2019-06-08T02:44:07 < jadew`> 2) you work with the customer to identify the core problem if you think he's missing the point (happens often) - that's problem identification.
2019-06-08T02:44:32 < jadew`> 3) you come up with a solution: we build something to do this, or.. we fire X, or... whatever.
2019-06-08T02:44:59 < jadew`> 4) the customer says ok, let's do this - I also want X and Y - that's specifications. You add to those too.
2019-06-08T02:45:13 < jadew`> 5) you build the thing.
2019-06-08T02:45:23 < Cracki> yes :)
2019-06-08T02:46:28 < jadew`> so... if you need to separate those steps, you can start with "let's identify the core problem - if you think the customer has no clue or that you don't have enough insight to know that he does and he's right
2019-06-08T02:46:46 < jadew`> then you come up with a _solution_
2019-06-08T02:47:05 < jadew`> then the _specifications_ are drafted
2019-06-08T02:47:16 < jadew`> and then you work, scrum style cuz it's hip
2019-06-08T02:47:25 < zyp> for the shit I work on at work, we have a document called MRS, I think it stands for «Main Requirements Specification»
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2019-06-08T02:47:54 < zyp> long list with all the shit our product should do, but not how to do it
2019-06-08T02:48:31 < jadew`> yeah, I never discussed how to do it with the people who benefited from the product
2019-06-08T02:48:57 < jadew`> but you might do that if the person asking you to do it, understands things
2019-06-08T02:49:21 < jadew`> like... if I asked another programmer to do something for me, I'd want to know what he's doing, to make sure they're not stupid about it
2019-06-08T02:49:25 < zyp> also has a matrix of which milestones each requirement should be satisfied by
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2019-06-08T02:49:54 < jadew`> yeah, that's usually more of a PM thing
2019-06-08T02:49:56 < Cracki> I think a Pflichtenheft is a kind of _proposed_ solution, something that might even come before a prototype.
2019-06-08T02:50:30 < Cracki> so the customer gets a chance to disagree with particular implementation, in case that turns out to be a requirement.
2019-06-08T02:50:41 < zyp> Cracki, as I said, I think I'll just call that a project specification or something
2019-06-08T02:50:53 < zyp> as in «this document specifies what we'll do in this project»
2019-06-08T02:51:00 < Cracki> it's a very formal way of what you'd do with a customer anyway, just by talking and probing
2019-06-08T02:51:06 < Cracki> ic
2019-06-08T02:51:25 < zyp> of course, english is not my first language, so YMMV :)
2019-06-08T02:51:41 < Cracki> I think these terms are even in some german industry norm
2019-06-08T02:52:31 < zyp> aren't everything in germany specified somewhere? :p
2019-06-08T02:52:37 < jadew`> I hate that discussion, btw
2019-06-08T02:52:39 < Cracki> :P
2019-06-08T02:52:48 < Cracki> let's talk about doc generation
2019-06-08T02:52:55 < jadew`> no, not this one
2019-06-08T02:52:57 < Cracki> that's nice and concrete
2019-06-08T02:53:19 < Cracki> like the goats' boots
2019-06-08T02:53:25 < jadew`> the one where the customer tells you what they want - and I think to myself... geez, I'm gonna spend the next 6 months doing this shit all over again
2019-06-08T02:53:30 < Cracki> hehe
2019-06-08T02:54:20 < sync> Cracki: the pflichtenheft is what the contractor will do to solve the issue
2019-06-08T02:54:28 < sync> s/issue/problem/
2019-06-08T02:54:28 < zyp> I like it when the customer knows what they want, then you can either just do it or tell them it's impossible
2019-06-08T02:54:38 < jadew`> the only times when I didn't feel that in recent years was when the customer told me what product to make, because he would buy it
2019-06-08T02:54:43 < Cracki> my boss and his customers work very informally too. verbal discussions, emails perhaps, but try to nail something down and you've got some work ahead of you
2019-06-08T02:54:53 < sync> and the lastenheft describes what the contractee wanted
2019-06-08T02:54:58 < Cracki> heh
2019-06-08T02:55:09 < zyp> much better than when the customer doesn't know what they want and you have to try to figure out how to solve the customer's needs as best as possible
2019-06-08T02:55:35 < sync> and then the customer wanted something different alltogether
2019-06-08T02:55:41 < sync> but they did not know that
2019-06-08T02:55:43 < zyp> yeah
2019-06-08T02:56:06 < Cracki> I'm beginning to understand that there are no english terms that are clearly comparable. even requirements vs specification isn't clear because somewhere someone uses "requirements specification"
2019-06-08T02:56:37 < jadew`> sync, figuring out what the customer really wants is a skill in itself
2019-06-08T02:56:41 < zyp> on my work project, defining the interface towards the outside world was a fun one
2019-06-08T02:56:47 < sync> yes and no jadew`
2019-06-08T02:56:52 < Cracki> those problems sound like someone had an idea, threw it over the fence, and expected a complete widget that solved what he had in mind, not what he said
2019-06-08T02:57:05 < sync> you implement what you said in the pflichtenheft and then gtfo
2019-06-08T02:57:27 < Cracki> they signed off on the pflichtenheft, so they'll get that. if they want to issue a change request, that's extra.
2019-06-08T02:57:54 < jadew`> those would be the specifications then
2019-06-08T02:58:01 < sync> yes and no
2019-06-08T02:58:01 < zyp> my coworker has this code blob with a bunch of signals in and out, and then customer has a PLC that's gonna talk to it, and I sit in the middle doing the communication code
2019-06-08T02:58:13 < sync> the pflichtenheft is what *you* agreed to deliver
2019-06-08T02:58:23 < sync> and what the contractee agreed to get
2019-06-08T02:58:23 < Cracki> that negotiation benefits from a little adversity, acting like a genie
2019-06-08T02:58:41 < jadew`> sync, so the agreed specifications?
2019-06-08T02:58:56 < sync> more or less, yes
2019-06-08T02:59:15 < Cracki> the pflichtenheft is what you proposed and the customer agreed is what you should *do*. lastenheft is what he *wants*.
2019-06-08T02:59:15 < sync> the idea comes from public projects
2019-06-08T02:59:21 < sync> you publish a lastenheft
2019-06-08T02:59:24 < zyp> I don't really give much of a fuck about most of the signals, I'm just gonna transport them from one side of my code to another
2019-06-08T02:59:40 < sync> and companies give you their pflichtenheft and then you agree to what will actually be done
2019-06-08T03:00:10 < jadew`> zyp, was that an analogy?
2019-06-08T03:00:14 < Cracki> request for proposals, proposals
2019-06-08T03:00:47 < jadew`> sync, ok, that makes sense
2019-06-08T03:00:54 < zyp> jadew`, no, I'm just complaining about what happens when people don't have a clear idea of what they want
2019-06-08T03:01:14 < Cracki> the world is full of those :P
2019-06-08T03:01:14 < jadew`> zyp, ah, right
2019-06-08T03:01:24 < Cracki> you get money to read minds
2019-06-08T03:01:25 < jadew`> my job was to make sure they did
2019-06-08T03:01:34 < zyp> I don't want that job :p
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2019-06-08T03:01:47 < Cracki> you get money to EAT BRAINS, better? :P
2019-06-08T03:01:50 < jadew`> tell me about it :)
2019-06-08T03:02:27 < Cracki> it's a delight to find the one person in some customer's company who can translate their desires into actionable statements
2019-06-08T03:02:41 < jadew`> Cracki, yeah, my former boss loved me because (his words): "I'm the only one who understands what he wants"
2019-06-08T03:03:22 < zyp> months ago, after some talks back and forth, I got my coworker to draft up a list of signals and organized it into a specified data structure
2019-06-08T03:03:25 < jadew`> but I've witnessed many discussions with other coworkers and I know why that was
2019-06-08T03:03:39 < jadew`> most people don't seem to get into the details
2019-06-08T03:03:53 < jadew`> they don't raise questions regarding questionable requirements
2019-06-08T03:03:59 < jadew`> or clarifications
2019-06-08T03:04:00 < zyp> this week, we finally started putting stuff together, getting the PLC hooked up and so on, and found out we couldn't do it exactly like planned
2019-06-08T03:04:04 < jadew`> they're just like "yeah, ok"
2019-06-08T03:04:14 < Cracki> "yeah ok" is a pandemic
2019-06-08T03:04:23 < Cracki> or "not my problem" or "I don't need to get involved"
2019-06-08T03:04:55 < Cracki> tell us more about the PLC. I get to do the firmware for something that talks to PLCs sometimes.
2019-06-08T03:04:55 < zyp> third party implementation details limits us to max 64-byte messages towards the PLC, so we had to split data across multiple
2019-06-08T03:05:02 < Cracki> hahaha
2019-06-08T03:05:24 < zyp> which throws a bunch of my assumptions out the window
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2019-06-08T03:06:27 < zyp> we've got a dual interface for redundancy, and as such got a sequence number in each message to figure out what's going on if the two interfaces starts disagreeing
2019-06-08T03:06:58 < zyp> so now we have to put that in each part message instead
2019-06-08T03:07:34 < jadew`> what exactly are PLCs?
2019-06-08T03:07:38 < zyp> I ended up splitting it into three messages along natural boundaries
2019-06-08T03:07:39 < aandrew> you don't want to know
2019-06-08T03:07:45 < Cracki> microcontroller, but 24v I/O
2019-06-08T03:07:50 < Cracki> industrial stuff
2019-06-08T03:07:57 < Cracki> also the size of three racks
2019-06-08T03:08:05 < zyp> and then I found my coworker has added a bunch of shit to the interface that I don't know anything about
2019-06-08T03:08:06 < aandrew> think of the worst fucking programming language ever and then extend it in ways you never thought possible
2019-06-08T03:08:11 < aandrew> I fucking *hate* ladder logic
2019-06-08T03:08:20 < jadew`> aandrew, lol
2019-06-08T03:08:22 < zyp> so I'm just gonna go ahead and ignore that for now :p
2019-06-08T03:08:28 < Cracki> Programmable Logic Controller is what electrical engineers came up with when you did logic with relays or worse
2019-06-08T03:08:34 < aandrew> well
2019-06-08T03:08:41 < aandrew> originally it was literally racks of relays
2019-06-08T03:08:54 < aandrew> noisy as fuck and slow, but sparkies understood it
2019-06-08T03:08:56 < Cracki> PLCs can be programmed in assembly, "ladder diagrams", or some basic-pascal-ish thing
2019-06-08T03:09:18 < aandrew> then they just kept extending them... timer relays, time delay (on and off-delay) relays, PID controllers...
2019-06-08T03:09:37 < aandrew> all with the same idea that they are "dead" until voltage comes in on the left side
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2019-06-08T03:09:58 < jadew`> what are they used for?
2019-06-08T03:10:01 < aandrew> then they started replacing them with microcontrollers, but kept the same paradigm
2019-06-08T03:10:10 < jadew`> why not have one normal MCU that controls a couple of relays?
2019-06-08T03:10:16 < zyp> the PLC is some new fancy siemens thing, it talks profinet towards our system
2019-06-08T03:10:19 < Cracki> because that IS a PLC
2019-06-08T03:10:27 < Cracki> except for the relays.
2019-06-08T03:10:31 < aandrew> and it REALLY got fucky from there... the "relay" blocks could do practically anything. image recognition, move robots in preprogrammed ways, etc.
2019-06-08T03:11:01 < aandrew> jadew`: basically they are used in industrial control. anywhere you'd think to use a little arduino to do a bit of logic there'd be a PLC
2019-06-08T03:11:07 < zyp> then there's a third party gateway between profinet and my network, essentially a shared memory mailbox that the PLC reads from and writes to
2019-06-08T03:11:15 < jadew`> aandrew, why?
2019-06-08T03:11:30 < aandrew> jadew`: because, like I said, it all started with literal racks of relays to do this kind of thing
2019-06-08T03:11:32 < Cracki> "PLC" implies certain interfaces (24 volts, 4-20 mA, ... among them) and possibly builtin redundancy for high reliability
2019-06-08T03:11:34 < aandrew> and the sparkies knew it
2019-06-08T03:11:53 < zyp> and the profinet side of that gateway is split into records of various sizes, on my side it's just a whole big buffer that I read at once
2019-06-08T03:11:58 < aandrew> Cracki: not really; PLC is just a catchall for a programmable logic controller
2019-06-08T03:12:01 < Cracki> I still can't get over the term "profinet"
2019-06-08T03:12:06 < jadew`> I see, but if it's just a MCU, why can't you use a STM32 or something else?
2019-06-08T03:12:06 < Cracki> that too
2019-06-08T03:12:19 < zyp> Cracki, who cares, it's just a name
2019-06-08T03:12:33 < Cracki> jadew`, they DO use stm32, or whatever
2019-06-08T03:12:36 < aandrew> zyp: I designed a protocol gateway that would convert between modbus-rtu (what we used) and devicenet, ethernet/ip profibus, profinet, bacnet, etc.
2019-06-08T03:12:39 < zyp> profinet is natural enough, it's an ethernet-based replacement for profibus
2019-06-08T03:12:49 < Cracki> but the common denominator is those industrial interfaces
2019-06-08T03:12:50 < aandrew> jadew`: because that implies someone needs ot know how to program it
2019-06-08T03:12:57 < aandrew> and that scares plant manager
2019-06-08T03:13:00 < aandrew> managers
2019-06-08T03:13:04 < zyp> aandrew, for sale or just for internal use?
2019-06-08T03:13:07 < jadew`> aandrew, so it's a legacy thing?
2019-06-08T03:13:07 < Cracki> PLC programming is actually specified in some IEC norm
2019-06-08T03:13:12 < aandrew> zyp: well it was an add-on for our equipment
2019-06-08T03:13:23 < aandrew> I still ahve the CIP manuals somewhere. three 4" binders full
2019-06-08T03:13:30 < aandrew> jadew`: kind of
2019-06-08T03:13:31 < Cracki> you can run/interpret/compile-to  PLC code on anything, x86, arm, ...
2019-06-08T03:13:34 < aandrew> jadew`: now it's an entire industry
2019-06-08T03:13:45 < aandrew> jadew`: they're very useful and ubiquitous in industrial control
2019-06-08T03:13:58 < aandrew> you know how arduino/rpi/bbb is with our stuff? that's what PLCs are like in industry
2019-06-08T03:14:08 < jadew`> aandrew, I keep hearing about it, but I don't have a clear picture of what it does, what it's used for, and why
2019-06-08T03:14:12 < zyp> we're currently using these: https://www.kunbus.com/modular-gateways.html
2019-06-08T03:14:14 < aandrew> anyone who knows how to write ladder logic using the standard IEC tools can program most of them
2019-06-08T03:14:26 < jadew`> aandrew, I see
2019-06-08T03:14:49 < zyp> they're neat enough, but I wanna try Hilscher NT 151 as well to get some perspective, but nobody wants to buy me one :p
2019-06-08T03:14:56 < aandrew> jadew`: what is your confusion? it's an industrial microcontroller with a (mostly) standardized programming and debugigng interface aimed toward electricians who understand if you supply a relay coil with voltage, the contact will move
2019-06-08T03:15:05 < Cracki> one of my boss's customers used a PLC to run a certain plant process that involved waiting for sensors, poking a kuka robot arm to move things, poking a printer to print a label, ...
2019-06-08T03:15:18 < Cracki> it's really dumb "when this, do that, wait for such, ..."
2019-06-08T03:15:24 < jadew`> aandrew, hah, that's a good definition, thanks
2019-06-08T03:15:28 < aandrew> every PLC guy I knew (this was 10y ago) had 15-17" laptops with VERY high resolution screens for the time
2019-06-08T03:15:31 < aandrew> I was envious of them for that only
2019-06-08T03:15:50 < aandrew> Cracki: that's exactly what PLCs are (ab)used for
2019-06-08T03:16:05 < Cracki> if that's abuse, what's proper use for PLCs? :P
2019-06-08T03:16:27 < Cracki> btw, I think those robot arm "pendants" eat PLC "structured text" as well, or something very similar
2019-06-08T03:16:33 < aandrew> but what used to be very simple literal relay logic stuff has been mutated into exactly what you described. a ladder logic block that when energized, can talk to an industrial robot, or print a label, or launch a rocket
2019-06-08T03:16:34 < Cracki> it's certainly not g-code
2019-06-08T03:16:41 < zyp> a kinda cool thing about those KUNBUS things is that they have this shit: https://revolution.kunbus.com/revpi-core/
2019-06-08T03:17:11 < Cracki> Hutschiene!
2019-06-08T03:17:11 < jadew`> zyp, you have to use ladder logic to program that?
2019-06-08T03:17:15 < zyp> can just drop one of those into the system, ssh into it and the entire shared state is available as a devnode
2019-06-08T03:17:25 < aandrew> I don't think I'd want to rely on an rpi in industrial process control
2019-06-08T03:17:38 < zyp> me neither, but it's awesome for desktop testing
2019-06-08T03:17:47 < aandrew> keep linux out of that stuff, ptu it in the servers and high level control where it belongs
2019-06-08T03:17:57 < aandrew> gimme stupid simple deterministic control
2019-06-08T03:18:04 < aandrew> oh that reminds me
2019-06-08T03:18:17 < Cracki> you don't have to use ladders. those three programming models are like different languages you can mix and match as you like
2019-06-08T03:18:22 < Cracki> per "module"
2019-06-08T03:18:39 < aandrew> PLC are often described as having x cycle time -- how fast they can run through their program to update their outputs. it's compared much the same way that we talk about MHz or MIPS here
2019-06-08T03:18:58 < Cracki> PLCs run in a loop
2019-06-08T03:19:01 < sync> although that is kind of a joke
2019-06-08T03:19:04 < Cracki> read inputs, calculate, set outputs, repeat
2019-06-08T03:19:10 < sync> for most processes you have to turn that down
2019-06-08T03:19:12 < zyp> PLC guy were doing some testing yesterday, so I just ripped one of the gateway modules out of the control cabinet and stuffed that thing in instead and did a «watch -n 0.5 hexdump -C /dev/asdf»
2019-06-08T03:19:13 < Cracki> 1+ khz is a common target
2019-06-08T03:19:25 < aandrew> some of the really powerful PLCs are quite impressive from a technical perspective -- you get stupidly high cycle times and absolutely rock solid down to the dozens of usec determinism
2019-06-08T03:19:27 < zyp> could watch the stuff the PLC sent me in realtime
2019-06-08T03:19:44 < zyp> and also send stuff back by dd-ing it into the same devnode
2019-06-08T03:19:56 < Cracki> curious, with *that* module?
2019-06-08T03:20:07 < Cracki> nice to know
2019-06-08T03:20:12 < aandrew> zyp: nice. that reveals the other thing about 99% of industrial process control: zero security
2019-06-08T03:20:15 < jadew`> I don't get it tho, zyp talks about communication protocols
2019-06-08T03:20:29 < jadew`> what can the PLC do that is so simple, yet it sends and receives data?
2019-06-08T03:20:47 < aandrew> nothing stopping you from catting /dev/urandom to the node and fucking everything up -- imagine a 3-ton industrial robot doing interpretive dance to a random datastream
2019-06-08T03:20:58 < zyp> haha
2019-06-08T03:21:04 < aandrew> jadew`: PLCs have evolved to be able to talk to PCs and other PLCs through numerous protocols
2019-06-08T03:21:10 < sync> jadew`: imagine hueg factories
2019-06-08T03:21:34 < aandrew> stupid simple (again relay-modelled) things like ModBUS where you send over RS485 things like "coil 5 on" or "what's the state of contact 18"
2019-06-08T03:21:42 < Cracki> really, think of PLCs as arduinos, but instead of pin headers, you get screw terminals for 1mm thick wires
2019-06-08T03:21:53 < aandrew> to much faster networks that run on CAN or ethernet
2019-06-08T03:22:19 < jadew`> ok, it makes sense
2019-06-08T03:22:25 < Cracki> arduinos the size of racks, where you go at them with screwdrivers instead of soldering irons
2019-06-08T03:22:31 < aandrew> DeviceNet (well CIP, which is the encompassing protcol for DeviceNet, ControlNet and Ethernet/IP) for example introduced the concept of abstraction
2019-06-08T03:22:38 < Cracki> basically an arduino mounted in a rack, with lots of "bonding wires"
2019-06-08T03:22:51 < aandrew> you don't care WHO'S motor controller you have, you want ot be able to say "motor controller at node 5, set speed to 80%"
2019-06-08T03:22:52 < Cracki> your question is kinda like "what's an IC" when you know what a die is
2019-06-08T03:23:03 < aandrew> ModBUS can't do that, or at least there is no standard for it (multiple attempts though)
2019-06-08T03:23:41 < aandrew> with CIP, if you want to be CIP-compatible (which means you can say you're ODVA approved and put the sticker on your box) then you must go thorugh quite a rigorous compliance test
2019-06-08T03:23:48 < aandrew> that was the most fun part of designing that gateway
2019-06-08T03:23:58 < zyp> heh
2019-06-08T03:24:08 < aandrew> the CIP test suite beat the living shit out of your protocol stack and if you failed you did not get to move on
2019-06-08T03:24:14 < aandrew> you had to fix the issue and test it again
2019-06-08T03:24:29 < aandrew> I really gained an appreciation for it, although it was maddening at times
2019-06-08T03:24:41 < sync> or you just say compatible but not certified :3
2019-06-08T03:24:45 < zyp> the KUNBUS gateways are just dumb memory buffers, fairly hardcoded in how they show up
2019-06-08T03:25:10 < zyp> but shit works, so that's fine
2019-06-08T03:25:14 < aandrew> sync: I'm not sure if they even allowed that. Rockwell is pretty litigous
2019-06-08T03:25:53 < aandrew> I miss industrial control, I loved going onsite and seeing how my shit was used in the real world
2019-06-08T03:26:09 < aandrew> it was like real life Dirty Jobs, but before the show existed (or right aroudn the time it was starting)
2019-06-08T03:26:10 < sync> wouldn't work in europe
2019-06-08T03:26:19 < zyp> aandrew, yeah, that part is cool
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2019-06-08T03:27:34 < aandrew> I wonder if I still ahve my CIP stack source code
2019-06-08T03:27:49 < aandrew> I do still ahve a block of like 4k OUIs
2019-06-08T03:28:50 < zyp> I've been enjoying working in this industry hall for the past couple of weeks, more fun than sitting at the office :p
2019-06-08T03:29:07 < aandrew> yep
2019-06-08T03:29:17 < aandrew> my only complaint is I was always fucking sent to quebec
2019-06-08T03:29:23 < zyp> haha
2019-06-08T03:29:29 < aandrew> never BC, never the states. fucking middle of nowhere northern quebec
2019-06-08T03:29:33 < jadew`> heh
2019-06-08T03:29:36 < jadew`> sounds fun tho
2019-06-08T03:29:48 < aandrew> Rouyn-Noranda, Chibougamau, etc.
2019-06-08T03:29:49 < jadew`> I wish I had a job where I had to travel
2019-06-08T03:29:57 < aandrew> the job I have now is ncie
2019-06-08T03:30:13 < aandrew> been to israel, taiwan, HK, all over the US...
2019-06-08T03:30:19 < Cracki> a little travel... travel all the time is bad for family
2019-06-08T03:30:45 < zyp> I used to like travelling for work when I lived alone, not that fun nowadays
2019-06-08T03:30:57 < jadew`> Cracki, they get to miss you
2019-06-08T03:31:12 < Cracki> ;)
2019-06-08T03:31:25 < Cracki> chastity belt
2019-06-08T03:31:31 < zyp> except the time I went to .dk for a couple of days and brought the wife along :p
2019-06-08T03:31:55 < aandrew> how do the revpi modules communicate?
2019-06-08T03:32:11 < aandrew> I mean between a core and a dio or something
2019-06-08T03:32:16 < jadew`> zyp, how long have you been with her?
2019-06-08T03:32:17 < sync> just not having a family works pretty well
2019-06-08T03:32:26 < karlp> aren't all the plcs just running a vm on linux now anyway aandrew?
2019-06-08T03:32:28 < zyp> aandrew, I think it's a mix of ethernet and something slower
2019-06-08T03:32:38 < jadew`> sync, heh
2019-06-08T03:33:18 < zyp> IIRC the revpi schematic has two of those 10Mb/s ethernet SPI MACs
2019-06-08T03:33:35 < zyp> one to the left, one to the right
2019-06-08T03:33:54 < zyp> gateway modules are ethernet, so you can just attach one on each side
2019-06-08T03:33:56 < aandrew> I bet the gateways are using the same hardware modules I used
2019-06-08T03:34:05 < aandrew> anyhttps://www.anybus.com/
2019-06-08T03:34:14 < zyp> maybe, I think KUNBUS makes modules too
2019-06-08T03:34:32 < aandrew> it's *expensive* to design and certify for all those networks without sales
2019-06-08T03:34:39 < zyp> jadew`, four years or so, I think
2019-06-08T03:35:28 < jadew`> zyp, hmm, you can surely do a couple of days without missing her :)
2019-06-08T03:35:35 < aandrew> meh, EUR$200ish, give or take. not badly priced for a DIN rail mounted linux box with industrial connections
2019-06-08T03:36:13 < aandrew> zyp: yeah but I mean how does it connect a DIO to the core, for example
2019-06-08T03:36:19 < aandrew> I don't see a connection shown
2019-06-08T03:36:34 < zyp> physically? there's jumpers on the top
2019-06-08T03:36:45 < aandrew> aha
2019-06-08T03:36:58 < aandrew> so it's probably some RS485 type thing unless they were really stupid and did SPI or something
2019-06-08T03:37:36 < zyp> «4 pins of the PiBridge are used for automatic module detection during start up phase. After this phase RevPi Core exactly knows which modules are connected and in which physical position they are.
2019-06-08T03:37:40 < zyp> 4 pins of the PiBridge are used for rapid data exchange of small data packages using RS485 signals. This channel is also used for module configuration during start up phase. After configuration this channel is used for cyclically exchanging data between RevPi Core and all IO modules connected.
2019-06-08T03:37:45 < zyp> 8 pins of the PiBridge are used for rapid data exchange of large amount of data using Ethernet signals. Up to now this channel is only used by our modular gateway modules which may collect up to 512 Byte data cyclically from nearly all relevant fieldbusses.»
2019-06-08T03:38:09 < aandrew> ah there you go
2019-06-08T03:39:33 < aandrew> hm, my hackintosh has been up for half a year, not bad
2019-06-08T03:39:49 < zyp> neat
2019-06-08T03:40:00 < zyp> mine's only been up for 23 days, since I updated it to mojave
2019-06-08T03:40:03 < aandrew> my server in the DC shit itself last night, the RAID controller seemed to freak out and didn't see the array, which made everything hang since there was no disk
2019-06-08T03:40:19 < jadew`> my PC has been up since the last power outage
2019-06-08T03:40:28 < aandrew> I was convinced I had a 3 drive failure (6-drive RAID5+hot spare) so was a litlte upset
2019-06-08T03:40:39 < zyp> need to reboot it again at some point to fix the sound driver, I never got around to fixing that after the update :p
2019-06-08T03:40:46 < zyp> fun
2019-06-08T03:40:46 < aandrew> got there with four brand new SSDs and rebooted it and it was perfectly fine. no bad drives, no errors in the logs
2019-06-08T03:40:54 < aandrew> the only thing I noticed was the uptime was 255.08 days
2019-06-08T03:40:59 < zyp> I noticed another harddrive in my server died yesterday
2019-06-08T03:41:02 < aandrew> so I wonder if the RAID controller is watching something and overflowed
2019-06-08T03:41:56 < jadew`> Google has released a report on HDD failure and altho they mentioned that some brand are doing a lot better than others, they didn't want to say which brands :/
2019-06-08T03:42:15 < zyp> 16th drive to die, first one to die after outliving 5yr warranty
2019-06-08T03:42:37 < zyp> so now I actually need to spend money on a replacement
2019-06-08T03:42:38 < jadew`> zyp, I have one that's probably 10 years old
2019-06-08T03:42:40 < jadew`> if not older
2019-06-08T03:42:53 < jadew`> 1 Tb
2019-06-08T03:42:59 < zyp> well, sure, I have older drives too
2019-06-08T03:43:22 < jadew`> all the high densitiy ones have failed me in less than 5 years I think
2019-06-08T03:43:32 < zyp> hmm, oldest one in use would be the wd black in my workstation
2019-06-08T03:43:33 < jadew`> *all the other
2019-06-08T03:43:48 < jadew`> mine's a samsung
2019-06-08T03:44:36 < jadew`> had several WDs fail
2019-06-08T03:46:06 < jadew`> Samsung Spinpoint F1 HD103UJ
2019-06-08T03:46:09 < zyp> I got the wd black as a free replacement for some older drive that died, around eight years ago
2019-06-08T03:46:39 < zyp> didn't match the rest of the array, so I just shelved it instead, put it in the new workstation when I put that together seven years ago
2019-06-08T03:46:43 < jadew`> do you still have the drives that failed?
2019-06-08T03:47:09 < zyp> some of them, most of them got returned
2019-06-08T03:47:22 < jadew`> I thought we should all make a list of failed HDDs to get some stats, but maybe we can use google for that
2019-06-08T03:47:24 < zyp> the only ones I still got are the one that the store replaced without asking for a return first
2019-06-08T03:47:40 < Cracki> such lists would be outdated after three years
2019-06-08T03:47:40 < zyp> no point, backblaze already has better stats than we can make :p
2019-06-08T03:47:41 < jadew`> I never returned a HDD
2019-06-08T03:47:59 < Cracki> and you'd get better data from data centers that use thousands of them
2019-06-08T03:48:04 < zyp> I live in norway, consumer protection laws entitle me to a 5yr warranty-ish on drives
2019-06-08T03:48:07 < Cracki> google had one report on their numbers once
2019-06-08T03:48:08 < jadew`> zyp, I don't know about it
2019-06-08T03:48:15 < jadew`> where are these stats?
2019-06-08T03:48:32 < zyp> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-hard-drive-stats-q1-2019/ <- here's the one I read earlier today
2019-06-08T03:48:37 < Cracki> 2007! https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.com/en//archive/disk_failures.pdf
2019-06-08T03:48:41 < Cracki> also them
2019-06-08T03:48:49 < jadew`> zyp, it's not about customer protection, it's that I wouldn't give my data away
2019-06-08T03:49:00 < jadew`> pictures, code, whatever is on that hdd
2019-06-08T03:49:21 < zyp> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/3tb-hard-drive-failure/ <- here's the exact model I bought 16 of :p
2019-06-08T03:49:30 < jadew`> Cracki, that's the one, but they didn't say which one to buy :)
2019-06-08T03:49:35 < Cracki> heh
2019-06-08T03:49:59 < Cracki> the numbers speak
2019-06-08T03:50:53 < jadew`> zyp, you got the seagate one?
2019-06-08T03:50:56 < zyp> I received 14 of those drives in 2013, the one that just died was the 13th of those
2019-06-08T03:50:59 < Cracki> >Only 251 of the 4,190 Seagate 3TB hard drives deployed in 2012 are still in service
2019-06-08T03:50:59 < zyp> yeah
2019-06-08T03:51:12 < Cracki> shit situation
2019-06-08T03:51:16 < jadew`> yeah...
2019-06-08T03:51:26 < zyp> i.e. only one of the 14 seagate 3TB hard drives I got in 2013 are still working :)
2019-06-08T03:52:15 < zyp> of the 17 drives I have received from 2014 onwards, three have died
2019-06-08T03:52:15 < jadew`> must have costed them a lot
2019-06-08T03:52:19 < specing> zyp: what did they send as replacements?
2019-06-08T03:52:39 < zyp> identical ones, until DM001 got discontinued
2019-06-08T03:53:09 < specing> zyp: I suppose the replacements died as well?
2019-06-08T03:53:20 < zyp> and the newest four are two DM002 and two DM008
2019-06-08T03:54:07 < jadew`> so you're still buying 
2019-06-08T03:54:12 < jadew`> so you're still buying Seagate after that?
2019-06-08T03:54:46 < jadew`> or are those still replacements?
2019-06-08T03:55:07 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Iydyh.png
2019-06-08T03:55:25 < zyp> first col is order date, last col is warranty claim date
2019-06-08T03:55:58 < zyp> third col is what slot they're in, for drives currently running
2019-06-08T03:56:32 < zyp> I've paid for 16 of those, the rest are warranty replacements
2019-06-08T03:56:33 < jadew`> if anyone wants free hosting, talk to zyp, he's running a datacenter
2019-06-08T03:57:07 < zyp> and as I said, now I have one dead drive, the one in slot 6, that's too old to get a warranty replacement
2019-06-08T03:57:30 < zyp> so I actually need to go out and buy one
2019-06-08T03:59:20 < zyp> the current version seems to be ST3000DM007, so I might buy that
2019-06-08T03:59:47 < zyp> on the other hand, there's a 10 NOK difference between the 3TB version and the 4TB version, so I might as well grab the latter
2019-06-08T04:01:06 < zyp> not sure there's any point though, I doubt it'll outlive the array and have much usefulness afterwards
2019-06-08T04:05:17 < zyp> I could buy larger drives for every 3TB drive I have to replace out of warranty, and once I have enough of them I could rebuild the array with fewer but larger drives
2019-06-08T04:06:12 < jadew`> but when that time comes, 5 Tb drives will be cheap
2019-06-08T04:06:27 < zyp> how so?
2019-06-08T04:06:45 < zyp> 3TB drives are just as expensive now as when I first bought them six years ago
2019-06-08T04:07:25 < jadew`> I'm just kidding: you would face the same situation if that was the case
2019-06-08T04:08:04 < jadew`> I haven't looked at HDD prices in a while
2019-06-08T04:08:26 < jadew`> not analytically anyway
2019-06-08T04:11:59 < zyp> hmm
2019-06-08T04:12:15 < zyp> ST8000DM004 seems to be okay priced, 8TB
2019-06-08T04:12:16 < specing> In 5 years you'll replace it all with ssds lol
2019-06-08T04:12:53 < zyp> my array is still only at 39% capacity though
2019-06-08T04:13:23 < zyp> and more but smaller drives reduces cost of redundancy
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2019-06-08T04:28:38 < Cracki> https://geizhals.eu/ if you want to sort by money per TB
2019-06-08T04:28:53 < Cracki> cheapest 3.5" hdds are around 25 EUR/TB now
2019-06-08T04:29:00 < Cracki> and tend to be 3-4 TB
2019-06-08T04:29:27 < zyp> have price comparison sites to do that here too
2019-06-08T04:31:43 < Cracki> I remember when they still did EUR/GB and I sent them a message and they switched that
2019-06-08T04:31:51 < specing> I like to sort by price per TB-warrantyyear
2019-06-08T04:34:26 < zyp> checked used too, there's a guy nearby that wants to sell an unopened ST3000DM007
2019-06-08T04:35:23 < zyp> wants like 70% of store price, decent enough deal on its own, but I'm gonna see if I can negotiate him down a bit :)
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2019-06-08T04:58:04 < jadew`> jeez... birds start chirping at 4 am now...
2019-06-08T04:58:32 < jadew`> they've been at it for at least 20 minutes
2019-06-08T05:17:14 < Cracki> in two weeks, days are getting shorter again
2019-06-08T05:17:25 < Cracki> winter is coming
2019-06-08T05:27:59 < jadew`> winter is coming
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2019-06-08T05:40:29 < jadew`> LOL, rigol started making black test equipment too
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2019-06-08T06:14:21 < jly> of course
2019-06-08T06:18:47 < aandrew> balls I think I'm crashing altium
2019-06-08T06:19:18 < aandrew> updating a board layout and placed a via down, it pops up "which net do you want to connect it to" and I selected ground and it's just sitting and spinning 
2019-06-08T06:19:25 < aandrew> rapidly changing between arrow and busy mouse
2019-06-08T06:23:21 < jadew`> interesting... I've been going through my order history on a local website and it seems some of my high value orders are missing
2019-06-08T06:23:29 < jadew`> very old ones tho
2019-06-08T06:23:35 < jadew`> but others, even older, are still there
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2019-06-08T06:32:33 < aandrew> motherfuck
2019-06-08T06:32:39 < aandrew> not even the backups saved me
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2019-06-08T06:57:27 < emeb_mac> pro software
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2019-06-08T07:23:01 < jadew`> "Paying the extra EUR 75 was cheaper than the "free shipping with DHL"."
2019-06-08T07:23:07 < jadew`> lol
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2019-06-08T07:38:01 < jadew`> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/may/19/google-huawei-trump-blacklist-report
2019-06-08T07:38:32 < jadew`> anyone know exactly what this is about? I still don't get it - why is the US upset with huawei?
2019-06-08T07:38:37 < dongs> did you see teh date on that article
2019-06-08T07:38:49 < dongs> jadew`: they think they're spying on someone or someshit
2019-06-08T07:38:51 < jadew`> 2 weeks old
2019-06-08T07:39:03 < jadew`> ah ha
2019-06-08T07:41:13 < jadew`> also this: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-huawei-tech-usa-infineon/infineon-suspends-shipments-to-huawei-nikkei-idUSKCN1SQ0HV?il=0
2019-06-08T07:41:23 < jadew`> "Infineon’s annual sales to Huawei amount to $100 million or less, Nikkei said."
2019-06-08T07:41:54 < jadew`> Infineon must be thrilled
2019-06-08T07:42:26 < aandrew> ugh
2019-06-08T07:42:35 < aandrew> putting a via down on a pad really fucks altium off
2019-06-08T07:42:42 < aandrew> it works dozens of times then boom
2019-06-08T07:44:17 < jadew`> it's because solder paste layer leaks out - it creates an access violation
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2019-06-08T10:47:30 < Thorn> what are these markings on SMD resistors, 01B for 1kΩ, ..., 01D for 100kΩ
2019-06-08T10:48:35 < Thorn> >EIA-96
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2019-06-08T12:27:14 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/11FaP-0a2CAOkfM2LIxt3jcCrs2IkyMui/view?usp=sharing 
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2019-06-08T12:50:58 < Steffanx> Vroom vroom
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2019-06-08T13:04:07 < boddax> lamborghini?
2019-06-08T13:08:39 < Steffanx> Not sure if thats inside kakimir's budget
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2019-06-08T13:08:55 < Steffanx> but perhaps he won some lottery and thats why he quit his job :P
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2019-06-08T13:46:44 < boddax> look cylider 1 million kilometers done :)
2019-06-08T13:51:08 < Thorn> https://blog.st.com/dual-core-stm32h7/
2019-06-08T13:52:53 < kakimir> boddax: just 20k
2019-06-08T13:53:14 < kakimir> pre-injection yamaha engines man
2019-06-08T13:53:22 < kakimir> pre-injection era
2019-06-08T13:56:09 < Steffanx> Hmm fancy Thorn
2019-06-08T13:57:09 < Thorn> inb4 errata 1.1: cortex-m4 core is unusable
2019-06-08T13:58:24 < specing> Thorn: haha
2019-06-08T13:59:46 < Steffanx> too bad the smallest solderable package is 176 pin lqfp
2019-06-08T14:02:04 < Thorn> can you use swd with them or is it jtag only?
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2019-06-08T14:33:55 < boddax> make it 200k
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2019-06-08T14:36:10 < boddax> gap is visible where running the piston
2019-06-08T15:14:59 < Laurenceb> stupid britbongland
2019-06-08T15:15:13 < Laurenceb> why is half muh internets blocked
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2019-06-08T15:33:11 < Laurenceb> and why is ALSA such a mess
2019-06-08T15:35:05 < BrainDamage> alsa was designed a couple of years before people figured out how to make a sane audio interface
2019-06-08T15:35:17 < BrainDamage> and then, it never got fixed and instead there's tons of drivers for it
2019-06-08T15:37:27 < Thorn> drinking heavy water https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlj-opEq_EE
2019-06-08T15:42:42 < Laurenceb> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8a8cpJXYAIPTU2.jpg:small
2019-06-08T15:44:34 < Laurenceb> >spend ages trying to get muh virtual device to work
2019-06-08T15:45:11 < Laurenceb> >turns out AC97 devices never have a raw rate below 44.1k sps, lower rates are emulated in software
2019-06-08T15:45:50 < Laurenceb> >finally work that out through trial end error, resample all my devices to 8k sps to create the virtual device
2019-06-08T15:46:28 < Laurenceb> >discover alsa doesnt compensate for different resampling kernel sizes, so there is offset between the different channels
2019-06-08T15:47:18 < Laurenceb> and now I've spotted something even worse, some channels arent even at the correct sample rate
2019-06-08T15:53:24 < Laurenceb> looks like downsampling uses a different method to upsampling
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2019-06-08T16:04:19 < Laurenceb> never saw this coming https://hackaday.com/2019/06/07/maker-media-ceases-operations/
2019-06-08T16:14:20 < Cracki> different method?
2019-06-08T16:15:43 < Cracki> lowpass against aliasing, or lowpass (linear/other interpolation) because nearest neighbor is shit
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2019-06-08T16:17:35 < Laurenceb> if I was doing it I'd use Lanczos for everything, but it seems they only use that for upsampling
2019-06-08T16:17:50 < Laurenceb> complete lack of documentation as expected for lunix :(
2019-06-08T16:17:57 < Cracki> heh
2019-06-08T16:23:02 < rajkosto> Laurenceb, https://i.imgur.com/DkA42MH.jpg
2019-06-08T16:23:25 < Laurenceb> its def using this for upsampling, I can see the kernel shape by sending test pulses
2019-06-08T16:23:26 < Laurenceb> http://www.mega-nerd.com/SRC/
2019-06-08T16:36:45 < Laurenceb> >I bailed on Make when Dale Dougherty crapped all over Naomi Wu. Long live Adafruit
2019-06-08T16:36:57 < Laurenceb> keeek I'm so glad I dont follow this drama
2019-06-08T16:37:59 < rajkosto> "Long live Adafruit" why
2019-06-08T16:38:26 < Laurenceb> good boy points
2019-06-08T16:38:56 < rajkosto> long live SparkFun
2019-06-08T16:39:36 < Laurenceb> holy shit I just googled her, my sides
2019-06-08T16:43:13 < Laurenceb> the hackaday comments are gold "Gasp! What will hipsters do now??Fear not, there’s plenty of useless 3D-printing Youtube channels"
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2019-06-08T17:33:59 < friendofafriend> mom: Okay, I know when to take care of it.
2019-06-08T17:34:00 < friendofafriend> mom: Okay, I know when to take care of it.
2019-06-08T17:34:23 < friendofafriend> Sorry, mouse button just gave up the ghost.
2019-06-08T17:34:39 < Cracki> say hello to mom for us
2019-06-08T17:34:51 < friendofafriend> She always sends her best.
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2019-06-08T20:31:01 < Laurenceb> arg wut http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=8485.0
2019-06-08T20:31:15 < Laurenceb> >The "plug" PCM plugin apparently can handle sample rate conversion, so you do not need to use the "rate" plugin to do this
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2019-06-08T22:43:51 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45824.1100
2019-06-08T22:43:55 < Laurenceb> >they are still at it
2019-06-08T22:45:28 < Steffanx> So is Laurenceb still at ambulaurence sensors?
2019-06-08T22:45:31 < Steffanx> baby shaking et all?
2019-06-08T22:45:40 < Laurenceb> yes
2019-06-08T22:46:05 < Laurenceb> its my jerb
2019-06-08T22:46:41 < Steffanx> I met someone called "Lorance". It made me think of you because "LORAnceb". Ruined the day :P.
2019-06-08T22:49:30 < Laurenceb> >Shawyer demanded that Tajmar announce to the world that the Emdrive worked before he would help them with any technical details.
2019-06-08T22:49:36 < Laurenceb> my sides
2019-06-08T22:50:38 < Laurenceb> TheTraveller is very clearly Shawyer
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2019-06-08T23:09:46 < Laurenceb> >nasaspaceflight tards are so slow they dont realise that thetraveller is Shawyer who has been trolling people since 1994
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2019-06-08T23:29:11 < PaulFertser> Hey Steffanx :) Can you possibly explain the reasoning behind that politician officially taking such an "unsuitable" nickname as "Tiny" knowing his family name is "Kox"?
2019-06-08T23:31:31 < PaulFertser> It still boggles me. How on Earth, why someone might do that?
2019-06-08T23:31:52 < Steffanx> To be honest. i dont know. Except that his name is Martinus Josephus Maria Kox. Where Tiny probably came from martTIN(Y)us.
2019-06-08T23:32:26 < PaulFertser> Well, that's what I thought. But it still seems very odd, given all NL people are fluent in English.
2019-06-08T23:32:27 < Steffanx> and he's from 1953, not sure if cox at all where really a thing. Especially when you consider his catholic background (at least you have to be with such name)
2019-06-08T23:32:44 < Steffanx> *cocks
2019-06-08T23:33:00 < Steffanx> Except for the bird species.
2019-06-08T23:33:31 < PaulFertser> Hm, this way it makes much more sense. Thank you very much!
2019-06-08T23:33:32 < jadew`> is the cocksicle a thing?
2019-06-08T23:33:52 < jadew`> I think I heard that term somewhere
2019-06-08T23:34:12 < Steffanx> And its mainly an issue when you read his name. You dont pronounce Tiny like you would in english.
2019-06-08T23:35:05 < PaulFertser> Oh, I assumed you do, given the English wikipedia article on him doesn't say otherwise.
2019-06-08T23:35:17 < effractur> i mean we also have fokje modder
2019-06-08T23:35:38 < Steffanx> hah. yeah
2019-06-08T23:35:55 < PaulFertser> Here russians call him "teeny" but that sounds similar enough to "really make me think".
2019-06-08T23:35:56 < jadew`> we have something that's used a lot which sounds like "fuck you"
2019-06-08T23:36:09 < jadew`> it means, "I'll do it"
2019-06-08T23:36:13 < Steffanx> yeah, its more like "teeny" indeed.
2019-06-08T23:36:28 < PaulFertser> So basically the idea is that he got that nickname back when vulgar English wasn't too popular in your land, ok.
2019-06-08T23:36:39 < Steffanx> im not sure, but.. i think it is.
2019-06-08T23:37:20 < Steffanx> We have quite a few of those names  "Fokje modder" like effractur. That sounds very much like "fuck your mother".
2019-06-08T23:37:31 < Steffanx> *like effractur mentioned
2019-06-08T23:37:50 < PaulFertser> Haha
2019-06-08T23:37:54 < effractur> dick kok
2019-06-08T23:39:33 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: imho the best one is: https://www.lumc.nl/org/oogheelkunde/medewerkers/1260795
2019-06-08T23:39:43 < Steffanx> > eye doctor.
2019-06-08T23:39:53 < PaulFertser> :DDD
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2019-06-09T01:02:20 < qyx> any preferred source of small lcd displays, ~8 characters
2019-06-09T01:03:38 < specing> LCSC? Aliexpress?
2019-06-09T01:03:50 < specing> qyx: why not go for a SPI OLED?
2019-06-09T01:04:45 < qyx> because <100uA, sunlight readable, cheap
2019-06-09T01:05:12 < qyx> oled doesn't fit
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2019-06-09T01:21:28 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ entertainment time
2019-06-09T01:22:18 < kakimir> not music, but iot parody
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2019-06-09T01:53:36 < Thorn> interview with Alcubierre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JafY92PhgKU
2019-06-09T02:00:49 < jadew`> man... intel needs a sample of your blood too, in order to register and download their damn tools
2019-06-09T02:02:59 < jadew`> LMFAO, they want my fucking zip code
2019-06-09T02:08:00 < aandrew> just use 90210
2019-06-09T02:08:12 < jadew`> what's that?
2019-06-09T02:08:20 < aandrew> Beverly Hills, California
2019-06-09T02:08:26 < jadew`> ah, hehe
2019-06-09T02:08:45 < aandrew> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098749/
2019-06-09T02:08:53 < jadew`> it's ok, I won't lie there, I disclose it to china, so I'm sure Intel is ok too
2019-06-09T02:09:19 < aandrew> Steffanx: you're in france?
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2019-06-09T02:11:25 < jadew`> they're on dial up
2019-06-09T02:11:46 < jadew`> 3 Mb/s
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2019-06-09T02:12:24 < jadew> I remember when that was considered fast, 20 years ago
2019-06-09T02:12:52 < zyp> what do you consider fast today?
2019-06-09T02:13:07 < jadew> 1 Gb/s
2019-06-09T02:13:17 < zyp> what do you consider slow today?
2019-06-09T02:13:25 < jadew> < 20
2019-06-09T02:13:39 < zyp> sounds reasonable
2019-06-09T02:14:12 < zyp> I kinda feel like anything > 100 is pretty fast
2019-06-09T02:14:35 < jadew> yeah, but 1 Gb/s is really fast, like 3 Mb/s was 20 years ago
2019-06-09T02:16:09 < jadew> anyone got more than 1 Gbps at home?
2019-06-09T02:17:11 < zyp> I don't think there's many companies offering more
2019-06-09T02:17:16 < jadew> I guess I'd be impressed by maybe 300 Mb/s too
2019-06-09T02:17:37 < jadew> zyp, yeah, I don't think there's really a push for that from the consumer market
2019-06-09T02:17:40 < jadew> youtube works fine
2019-06-09T02:17:45 < zyp> I had 500 before I moved, shit's pretty crazy
2019-06-09T02:18:13 < jadew> 500 what Mb/s?
2019-06-09T02:18:29 < zyp> yes
2019-06-09T02:19:19 < jadew> 40 Gbps?
2019-06-09T02:19:34 < zyp> 500 megabits
2019-06-09T02:19:38 < jadew> ah
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2019-06-09T02:19:47 < zyp> but still
2019-06-09T02:19:48 < jadew> yeah, it's cool
2019-06-09T02:19:53 < jadew> I have 1 Gbps
2019-06-09T02:20:01 < zyp> I once downloaded a 100G torrent, took less than half an hour
2019-06-09T02:20:14 < jadew> what I meant by 300 Mb/s was 300 megabytes per second
2019-06-09T02:20:29 < zyp> bits is b, bytes is B
2019-06-09T02:20:57 < jadew> then MB
2019-06-09T02:21:19 < jadew> I get 100 MB/s regularly and most people here have this kind of connection
2019-06-09T02:21:44 < jadew> so it's kind of the norm
2019-06-09T02:21:48 < zyp> yeah, but you don't really notice anyway
2019-06-09T02:22:11 < jadew> yeah, that's what I was saying... there's really nothing driving it higher from the consumer side
2019-06-09T02:22:23 < jadew> youtube & netflix are already working fine
2019-06-09T02:22:40 < jadew> downloads are super fast, unless you're getting it from Intel
2019-06-09T02:23:12 < zyp> :)
2019-06-09T02:23:25 < jadew> I was on a 300 Mbps connection before and I can't say I noticed a big difference after upgrading
2019-06-09T02:23:31 < zyp> exactly
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2019-06-09T02:24:12 < zyp> I think my friend that I'm borrowing internet from got 150 now, I don't really notice the difference from 500 unless I'm looking at the speed stats when downloading torrents
2019-06-09T02:24:18 < jadew> maybe things will change in a couple of years, when everyone will have 8k displays
2019-06-09T02:26:32 < jadew> speaking of network infrastructure, my ISP is using lots of huawei routers and media converters
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2019-06-09T02:27:29 < zyp> does it matter?
2019-06-09T02:27:54 < jadew> that's what I wonder, now that huawei will have difficulties sourcing ICs and other components
2019-06-09T02:28:33 < specing> they'll use chinese ICs
2019-06-09T02:29:00 < jadew> specing, yeah, that's the theory, that they'll just drive the development of better chinese ICs
2019-06-09T02:29:14 < jadew> not sure if I should be happy or worried about that
2019-06-09T02:29:15 < zyp> my view on stuff like that is that there's so many points where shit can be monitored that I might as well just consider anything leaving my house as public right away
2019-06-09T02:29:15 < specing> I'm pretty sure the chinese ICs are already developed
2019-06-09T02:29:36 < jadew> zyp, ah, I don't care about that
2019-06-09T02:30:14 < jadew> I was just wondering how it will affect prices
2019-06-09T02:30:18 < zyp> if huawei get availability concerns, I assume your ISP would just switch to another vendor
2019-06-09T02:30:36 < jadew> specing, yeah, I guess you're right
2019-06-09T02:30:40 < specing> Huawei is so large they can make their own chips if need be
2019-06-09T02:30:49 < specing> and they probably eventually will
2019-06-09T02:30:54 < specing> if they dont already
2019-06-09T02:33:01 < jadew> I guess if china starts making better ICs... that's good?
2019-06-09T02:33:14 < jadew> lowers the BOM cost
2019-06-09T02:34:01 < specing> yes
2019-06-09T02:34:14 < jadew> the chinese business model baffles me for everything non high-end
2019-06-09T02:34:45 < jadew> if they make a product and the market value for that product is $1000, but they made it with $10
2019-06-09T02:34:58 < jadew> they'll sell it for $11 and completely destroy the market
2019-06-09T02:35:02 < specing> haha yes
2019-06-09T02:36:03 < jadew> I wonder why that is
2019-06-09T02:36:41 < zyp> maybe the market is broken when something that cost $10 to make sells for $1000, and they are fixing it?
2019-06-09T02:36:56 < jadew> is it simpler to just fight a fight to the bottom on lots of products, rather than to try to understand each market and play accordingly?
2019-06-09T02:37:28 < specing> maybe pricing them at $950 gives the west time to react?
2019-06-09T02:37:35 < jadew> zyp, not really, usually the other product costs a lot more to make, because it has more R&D in it, more testing, etc
2019-06-09T02:37:36 < specing> which they dont want?
2019-06-09T02:37:46 < jadew> the chinese, they just make them in the sweat shop and paddle it out
2019-06-09T02:38:47 < jadew> specing, yeah, that's one theory, but I'm starting to think it's a mindset of money in, money out, as fast as possible as many products as possible
2019-06-09T02:38:58 < jadew> and in this mindset, I don't think you have time to study the market
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2019-06-09T02:40:12 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/LI22C1v.png
2019-06-09T02:40:13 < bitmask> tree supports for a 3d brain look like a brain
2019-06-09T02:40:40 < jadew> they look like dicks
2019-06-09T02:40:45 < jadew> did you draw them?
2019-06-09T02:40:51 < bitmask> got dick on the mind?
2019-06-09T02:40:59 < bitmask> no, its cura's tree support
2019-06-09T02:41:45 < bitmask> ugh 15 min and still no time estimate, not that it will be accurate at this point, its gonna be like a 30 hour print
2019-06-09T02:42:09 < jadew> what sort of tree support is this?
2019-06-09T02:42:15 < jadew> for the christmas tree?
2019-06-09T02:43:12 < bitmask> the object I'm printing is a brain, since it has overhands it needs support, have you never used cura before? they have this experimental support feature called tree support where branches grow from the build plate and support the overhangs
2019-06-09T02:43:12 < jadew> oh, it's for models
2019-06-09T02:43:20 < bitmask> overhangs*
2019-06-09T02:43:25 < jadew> I don'
2019-06-09T02:43:29 < jadew> I don't use cura, no
2019-06-09T02:43:33 < bitmask> oh I like it
2019-06-09T02:44:25 < jadew> that tree support thing is cool
2019-06-09T02:44:32 < jadew> I only use slic3r
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2019-06-09T02:45:21 < bitmask> tree support takes longer to slice and on some models doesn't support everything but it works most of the time and the supports are so easy to remove
2019-06-09T02:45:48 < jadew> they do look like they'd be easy to remove
2019-06-09T02:46:09 < bitmask> never supported a whole model before, barely any of this model touches the build plate, but guess I'll see how it looks in a few hours when I get back
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2019-06-09T02:46:49 < bitmask> adios
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2019-06-09T04:03:31 < Laurenceb> >Dr Blaxter, This doctor is the worst one I have come across. Rude, abrupt, doesn’t listen to you at all
2019-06-09T04:03:37 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2019-06-09T04:06:35 < Laurenceb> I've been outed
2019-06-09T04:07:20 < Cracki> yes, Philippa
2019-06-09T04:13:01 < Laurenceb> kek
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2019-06-09T04:21:35 < emeb_mac> Dr. Feelgood
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2019-06-09T04:51:31 < Laurenceb> https://mobile.twitter.com/jessicae13eaton?lang=en
2019-06-09T04:51:41 < Laurenceb> >PhD in victim blaming
2019-06-09T04:53:23 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-06-09T04:53:31 < Laurenceb> >Fuck this miserable, nasty country and, particularly, fuck these dickless, lowlife, thick-as-horseshit, waste-of-skin excuses for men. I hope they die in screaming agony of testicular leprosy
2019-06-09T04:53:34 < Laurenceb> accurate
2019-06-09T04:56:09 < mawk> I want to do a stm32 ecigarette
2019-06-09T04:56:17 < mawk> but I know nothing about metal machining and stuff
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2019-06-09T05:04:09 < aandrew> so
2019-06-09T05:04:12 < aandrew> here's where altium *is* pro
2019-06-09T05:04:21 < aandrew> I added a bunch of components to a multichannel design
2019-06-09T05:04:35 < aandrew> but without rooms it's impossible to copy the positions tot he other channels right?
2019-06-09T05:04:48 < aandrew> nah.  create unions and copy/adjust the positions that way
2019-06-09T05:07:19 < aandrew> this is fucking slick
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2019-06-09T05:21:40 < jadew> why are all FPGA development environments so weird?
2019-06-09T05:21:45 < aandrew> heh
2019-06-09T05:21:54 < jadew> they all want to install on c:\
2019-06-09T05:21:57 < aandrew> of all of them I like quartus and diamond the best
2019-06-09T05:22:05 < aandrew> well that's problem #1, you're trying ot use them on windows
2019-06-09T05:22:30 < jadew> I'm just installing one of the lattice tools and their site is absolutely broken
2019-06-09T05:22:40 < aandrew> yes and tehir free licenses suck
2019-06-09T05:22:48 < aandrew> they expire after 6mos I think it is
2019-06-09T05:22:59 < jadew> heh
2019-06-09T05:23:01 < aandrew> just a pain in the dick to get new licennses every time you want to play with it
2019-06-09T05:23:05 < jadew> I better hurry then
2019-06-09T05:24:20 < mawk> on linux quartus is worse than on windows
2019-06-09T05:24:32 < mawk> with all the extra precise deps it needs
2019-06-09T05:24:40 < aandrew> extra precise deps?
2019-06-09T05:24:54 < aandrew> I literally downloaded and installed on ubuntu without any weirdness
2019-06-09T05:24:57 < mawk> in my fpga class I was the only one to use it on linux, all the other gave up
2019-06-09T05:25:02 < mawk> precise package version
2019-06-09T05:25:12 < aandrew> never had that issue
2019-06-09T05:25:19 < jadew> quartus was easier to get and install, but the same crappy "register and tell us a personal story" kind of thing
2019-06-09T05:25:19 < aandrew> it ships iwth its own libs
2019-06-09T05:25:32 < mawk> we needed a kinda old version, maybe it's better nowadays
2019-06-09T05:25:40 < mawk> for the antique fpgas we had
2019-06-09T05:27:27 < jadew> looks like it's installing the internet
2019-06-09T05:27:44 < jadew> for the past 7 or so minutes, all I saw in that progress thing was ***.html
2019-06-09T05:28:40 < jadew> when this is done, I'll be able to use IRC offline
2019-06-09T05:28:49 < mawk> lol
2019-06-09T05:28:49 < aandrew> haha
2019-06-09T05:32:40 < jadew> jeez... it's asking me if I want to install the parallel port driver
2019-06-09T05:41:22 < aandrew> bah, 150 days of uptime, time to reboot the hackintosh
2019-06-09T05:41:28 < aandrew> looks like the nv driver is hanging
2019-06-09T05:53:27 < jadew> why, when requesting a license, do you have to check "I verify that I am not an employee of Cadence Design Systems, Mentor Graphics Corporation, or Magma Design Automation."
2019-06-09T05:53:38 < jadew> they don't like mentor graphics or are they part of the same thing?
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2019-06-09T06:07:39 < aandrew> I dont' know but agree it is weird
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2019-06-09T07:54:35 < upgrdman> windows pros: on a multi-monitor system, any way to make windows always open a program on the monitor that you used to open it? windows defaults to opening it on the monitor that program was last used on. :(
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2019-06-09T08:04:16 < jadew> upgrdman, that's something the program has to do
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2019-06-09T08:04:34 < upgrdman> fuck
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2019-06-09T08:04:55 < jadew> in fact, the fact that it remembers where it was open last time, it indicates that the program actively does that
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2019-06-09T08:06:21 < upgrdman> wish windows would let me use my multi-monitor setup more like multiple "separate PCs" that just magically can drag-n-drop between monitors
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2019-06-09T08:06:46 < jadew> upgrdman, uhm... isn't that how it works already?
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2019-06-09T08:07:13 < upgrdman> no. if i click a taskbar icon on montior a, it might open on monitor b
2019-06-09T08:07:14 < jadew> you could make something to delete that program's registry settings
2019-06-09T08:07:31 < jadew> at least the part where it stores window information
2019-06-09T08:07:35 < jadew> maybe that'll do the trick
2019-06-09T08:07:44 < jadew> let me try something
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2019-06-09T08:09:10 < jadew> ok, so the default behaviour is to open it on the main monitor
2019-06-09T08:09:24 < jadew> regardless of where you used it last time
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2019-06-09T08:09:40 < jadew> so if the program remembers, then it's the program
2019-06-09T08:09:59 < jadew> make a feature request :)
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2019-06-09T08:10:45 < upgrdman> jadew, guess so, but that seems like something the os should be able to fake. e.g. on dual 4k setup, make it so an app only sees one 4k monitor, and only the user can magically move it between monitors
2019-06-09T08:11:04 < jadew> yeah, that's not a bad idea
2019-06-09T08:11:18 < jadew> give me a sec to re-test what I just tested
2019-06-09T08:11:24 < jadew> I'm still not 100% sure
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2019-06-09T08:15:16 < jadew> yeah, that seems to be the case, but I'm still not 100% sure, there's still a chance that the framework is moving the window there...
2019-06-09T08:15:18 < jadew> hmm
2019-06-09T08:17:50 < jadew> ok, I was right to not be sure
2019-06-09T08:18:08 < jadew> made a pure win32 one and it looks like windows already behaves the way you describe
2019-06-09T08:18:17 < jadew> (the way you'd want it to behave)
2019-06-09T08:18:22 < jadew> englishman^
2019-06-09T08:18:26 < jadew> sorry
2019-06-09T08:18:29 < jadew> upgrdman^
2019-06-09T08:18:46 < jadew> which means it's the program, not windows
2019-06-09T08:19:09 < upgrdman> ya, thats what i thought. just hoped windows had a feature to fake it
2019-06-09T08:19:28 < jadew> that would be difficult to do
2019-06-09T08:19:37 < jadew> because you'd have to figure out which window is the main window
2019-06-09T08:19:38 < upgrdman> really wish multi-monitor could be treated like it's multi-pc that magically shares a log in / mouse / keyboard / sound.
2019-06-09T08:19:49 < jadew> I guess the first one that gets spawned by the program, but that's not always the case...
2019-06-09T08:19:54 < jadew> you could implement this yourself
2019-06-09T08:19:57 < upgrdman> even if you couldn't move an app from one monitor to another, that'd be fine
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2019-06-09T08:20:23 < jadew> is this bothering you so much?
2019-06-09T08:20:42 < upgrdman> not a ton, but its like wtf, why is this not a setting :(
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2019-06-09T08:20:53 < jadew> normally, I want my stuff to turn on wherever I last had them
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2019-06-09T08:21:03 < jadew> I guess you're using your setup differently than I do
2019-06-09T08:21:11 < jadew> since you want different desktops
2019-06-09T08:21:16 < jadew> while I just want a big one
2019-06-09T08:21:38 < jadew> I don't have 4k monitors tho
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2019-06-09T08:21:59 < upgrdman> ya for me, its like different activies on different monitors.
2019-06-09T08:22:19 < upgrdman> like one is ~only for managing music or background movies
2019-06-09T08:22:36 < upgrdman> one is ~only for reading PDFs or web pages
2019-06-09T08:22:37 < upgrdman> etc.
2019-06-09T08:22:59 < jadew> I like using the same program on multiple screens
2019-06-09T08:23:27 < jadew> for example: one screen would have debug info, while I step through the source on another one and watch the output on another one
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2019-06-09T08:23:58 < jadew> if I have multiple activities, I separate them on different virtual desktops
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2019-06-09T08:24:10 < jadew> so I don't mix them together
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2019-06-09T08:24:34 < jadew> so I have all my browsers, PDFs, etc related to this job on one virtual desktop
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2019-06-09T10:34:20 < dongs> wow uh
2019-06-09T10:34:28 < dongs> was digging through my reel storage cuz i needed a 30K R
2019-06-09T10:34:32 < dongs> found one, loaded it up
2019-06-09T10:34:41 < dongs> then I thought HMM 332 mark on it looks weirde
2019-06-09T10:34:46 < dongs> measured, and its 3.3K
2019-06-09T10:34:55 < dongs> motherfucking digikey trolled me with a digireel
2019-06-09T10:35:16 < dongs> thats a fedback R for high voltage dc/dc so that would definitely fuck all sorts of things up if I didnt notice
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2019-06-09T11:01:09 < Steffanx> The netherlands aandrew 
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2019-06-09T12:34:24 < qyx> the PA9/PA10 vs PA11/PA12 thing on F0 makes me sad
2019-06-09T12:34:31 < qyx> you cannot use CAN and I2C at the same time
2019-06-09T12:35:10 < qyx> another I2C is on PB6/PB7 which is not available on smaller packages
2019-06-09T12:35:56 < qyx> ok, it seems it applies only to TSSOP20
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2019-06-09T13:17:42 < specing> qyx: on TSSOP20 f030f4 there is a stray TX pin that has no RX counterpart
2019-06-09T13:17:56 < specing> and yes, no i2c if you use uart...
2019-06-09T13:22:15 < boddax> emulate the eeprom
2019-06-09T13:28:52 < qyx> specing: that may be ok, for iolink or whatever
2019-06-09T13:29:50 < qyx> if you configure the usart in bidir mode
2019-06-09T13:30:04 < qyx> idk how to deal with it in the transceiver though
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2019-06-09T13:49:53 < jpa-> i2c is such a slow protocol that for master side, bitbanging it is not much of an overhead
2019-06-09T13:50:02 < jpa-> for slave it's of course more annoying
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2019-06-09T13:51:50 < Steffanx> Just deinvent i2c and its all done.
2019-06-09T13:55:00 < specing> What is the easiest to bitbang 1kbit+/s single-pin (+gnd) protocol?
2019-06-09T13:55:40 < jpa-> master side pretty much all are quite easy to bitbang
2019-06-09T13:57:06 < jpa-> and on stm32 with timers and dma etc, you can do a lot; such as 115kbps usart rx with timer capture + dma
2019-06-09T13:57:19 < specing> there would be no notion of master-slave
2019-06-09T13:57:28 < specing> and it would be end-to-end
2019-06-09T13:57:47 < jpa-> so uh, would it have collision detection or something?
2019-06-09T13:58:15 < jpa-> because if you have no strict master-slave relationship and only one wire, you are going to get collisions
2019-06-09T13:58:18 < specing> I guess so
2019-06-09T13:58:43 < specing> Its to interface to a battery charger that, due to lack of pins, only has uart transmit
2019-06-09T13:58:57 < specing> so I can only record stuff on my computer, I cannot control it
2019-06-09T13:59:23 < jpa-> if it is for a such device, why don't you just label one side as master?
2019-06-09T14:00:50 < specing> I guess I could do that
2019-06-09T14:01:16 < jpa-> it'll make your life a lot easier
2019-06-09T14:01:49 < jpa-> half-duplex uart is quite common and also easy to interface to e.g. usb-to-serial adapters, but not so nice to bitbang on the receive side
2019-06-09T14:02:07 < specing> being able to interface to ch340g would be nice
2019-06-09T14:02:23 < specing> or ch360g or whatever its called
2019-06-09T14:16:07 < qyx> just do a single wire uart
2019-06-09T14:16:18 < qyx> no need to bitbang
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2019-06-09T14:31:12 < specing> qyx: any examples out there?
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2019-06-09T16:53:49 < jpa-> it's kind of annoying how linux turns on echo by default for usb serial ports
2019-06-09T16:54:30 < jpa-> so if you just write log messages there, they get echoed back into your device for a little while when an application opens the serial port but before it has time to disable echo on it
2019-06-09T16:56:48 < Ultrasauce> you could probably write a udev rule to disable it on connect
2019-06-09T16:59:25 < jpa-> i haven't yet found a way to actually disable the echo before opening the device file, and opening the device file starts echoing data
2019-06-09T17:00:11 < jpa-> (linux doesn't read the bulk endpoint before device file is opened, so the window for echoing is very short anyway; but that makes it all the more annoying to debug, as it occurs only randomly depending on pc load)
2019-06-09T17:01:08 < jpa-> the workarounds i've found so far are on device firmware side; 1) delay writing for a few hundred ms after the bulk endpoint starts getting read; or 2) don't write anything before you receive something from pc
2019-06-09T17:03:16 < Ultrasauce> cant stty -echo before it's opened?
2019-06-09T17:04:04 < Ultrasauce> oh i have ti backwards
2019-06-09T17:04:17 < Rickta59> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c#L591
2019-06-09T17:04:28 < Rickta59> seems like there is a quirk feature you could turn off the echo
2019-06-09T17:04:41 < jpa-> Ultrasauce: doesn't stty open it?
2019-06-09T17:05:06 < Ultrasauce> i kind of assumed it was an ioctl. not familiar with the interface
2019-06-09T17:05:23 < jpa-> Ultrasauce: ioctl()'s work only on open fd's, i think
2019-06-09T17:05:30 < Ultrasauce> o
2019-06-09T17:05:32 < jpa-> Rickta59: hmm, nice find
2019-06-09T17:05:43 < Rickta59> you are talking about a usb device you implemented in stm32f firmware yes?
2019-06-09T17:05:54 < jpa-> sure
2019-06-09T17:06:19 < jpa-> too bad there is no nice way to set quirks without rebuilding kernel
2019-06-09T17:06:26 < Rickta59> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c#L591
2019-06-09T17:06:39 < Laurenceb> >/torvalds/linux/blob/
2019-06-09T17:06:45 < Laurenceb> that code makes my head hurt
2019-06-09T17:07:05 < Ultrasauce> not enough mixed c/c++ for your preferences?
2019-06-09T17:07:18 < jpa-> too many spaces
2019-06-09T17:07:18 < Laurenceb> I generally restrict my cancerous code to <1k lines
2019-06-09T17:07:46 < Rickta59> https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/3487/editing-quirks-for-a-usb-driver sorry this one to set a quirk jpa- 
2019-06-09T17:08:25 < Rickta59> of course you would be doing it for the cdc_acm driver
2019-06-09T17:09:33 < jpa-> cdc_acm module doesn't have such parameter
2019-06-09T17:15:18 < Rickta59> is this just for you?
2019-06-09T17:16:42 < Rickta59> i had to add a quirk in /etc/modprobe.d/usb-storage.conf to deal with those old ST-link/V1 interfaces when i switched my root to a usb driver
2019-06-09T17:17:10 < Rickta59> maybe you can add it there
2019-06-09T17:17:36 < Rickta59> i guess it wouldn't be usb-storage ..
2019-06-09T17:17:50 < Rickta59> modeprobe.d/cdc_acm.conf?
2019-06-09T17:19:08 < Rickta59> maybe that is only good for disabling
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2019-06-09T17:22:57 < jpa-> modprobe.d just contains config files for modprobe, it cannot magically add a parameter to a kernel module that doesn't have one
2019-06-09T17:23:14 < jpa-> but nope, this is not just for me, so i just went with workaround 2
2019-06-09T17:24:24 < Ultrasauce> hacky workaround 3: set the device id to one that has that quirk enabled
2019-06-09T17:25:35 < jpa-> but then it won't work on windows, because i'm already using a ST devid there to get drivers loaded automatically :P
2019-06-09T17:26:28 < Ultrasauce> its pretty annoying how little control that module exposes to userspace
2019-06-09T17:28:30 < jpa-> i'd rather have it just keep echo disabled by default, after all who in their right mind wants that?
2019-06-09T17:28:59 < jpa-> (yeah, probably some termios spec from 70's has it by default so that it's easier to test that your teletype cables work)
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2019-06-09T17:31:19 < Ultrasauce> think the underpinning here is that the class is antiquated and overused
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2019-06-09T17:31:50 < Ultrasauce> but, start looking at usb classes through that lens and you arent left with many good ones heh
2019-06-09T17:33:17 < jpa-> from googling, it appears the same problem exists with linux' CH340 and FTDI drivers also
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2019-06-09T17:42:01 < Rickta59> i tend to write stuff that expects the host to send something before I respond
2019-06-09T17:42:17 < Rickta59> so you firmware just starts spewing on open?
2019-06-09T17:42:32 < Rickta59> your
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2019-06-09T17:56:52 < jpa-> yep, it's mostly used to get data from device to pc, so it kind of makes sense it would just write it there
2019-06-09T17:57:05 < jpa-> but waiting for pc to send first works
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2019-06-09T18:40:36 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/fqherei.png
2019-06-09T18:40:38 < bitmask> damn corner
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2019-06-09T18:45:21 < Laurenceb> kek 8chan is banned in uk now but not 4chan
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2019-06-09T18:53:22 < mawk> logic level for 3.3V cmos stuff is 1/3V and 2/3V right
2019-06-09T18:53:25 < mawk> plain and simple
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2019-06-09T19:24:14 < mawk> hi catphish 
2019-06-09T19:24:25 < catphish> hello mr mawk :)
2019-06-09T19:25:32 < bitmask> https://www.facebook.com/WelderLuv/videos/384138258834062/
2019-06-09T19:25:35 < bitmask> someone build me that
2019-06-09T19:27:45 < Cracki> you can do that too. https://www.youtube.com/user/ChuckE2009/search?query=welding
2019-06-09T19:44:53 < bitmask> $114 for a welder heh
2019-06-09T19:48:15 < dongs> how do i cahnge origin of some shithub thing
2019-06-09T19:48:18 < specing> What is that?
2019-06-09T19:48:18 < dongs> to my own
2019-06-09T19:48:23 < dongs> i didnt fork it before cloning
2019-06-09T19:48:23 < specing> Sorry I have facebook blocked
2019-06-09T19:49:34 < Cracki> you mean change "origin" remote in your clone of the repo?
2019-06-09T19:49:40 < Cracki> git remote --help
2019-06-09T19:49:40 < dongs> nvm found
2019-06-09T19:49:42 < dongs> ez in sourcetree
2019-06-09T19:49:45 < Cracki> ;)
2019-06-09T19:49:53 < Cracki> that's why I like gui clients. they make shit discoverable.
2019-06-09T19:53:17 < mawk> you can add new origins
2019-06-09T19:53:20 < mawk> and jungle between each
2019-06-09T19:53:26 < mawk> you'll just have multiple remote branches
2019-06-09T19:53:36 < mawk> then you can pull from and push to specific remotes
2019-06-09T19:53:38 < Rickta59> doesn't microsoft vs have git integrated?
2019-06-09T19:53:43 < mawk> they all have
2019-06-09T19:53:49 < mawk> even emacs
2019-06-09T19:54:25 < Rickta59> they do own now don't they
2019-06-09T19:54:34 < mawk> they own github, not git
2019-06-09T19:54:41 < mawk> git is open source
2019-06-09T19:55:23 < Rickta59> i would think soon they will embrace, extend and extinguish git 
2019-06-09T19:55:55 < Rickta59> don't you using visual studio dongs ?
2019-06-09T19:56:24 < Rickta59> even i'm using vs code on linux now
2019-06-09T19:56:35 < Rickta59> it has great git handling
2019-06-09T19:56:57 < mawk> they can't buy git
2019-06-09T19:57:05 < mawk> it's owned by everybody
2019-06-09T19:57:12 < Rickta59> they didn't buy html but they owned it for a while
2019-06-09T19:57:57 < Rickta59> aren't they trying to own js with typescript
2019-06-09T19:58:06 < Rickta59> didn't they kill java with c#?
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2019-06-09T21:13:23 < boddax> github is .com right? someone own alredy
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2019-06-09T22:05:16 < mawk> git is not github boddax 
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2019-06-09T22:21:27 < boddax> ah ok i owe you one cup of flux
2019-06-09T22:21:38 < mawk> lol
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2019-06-09T23:21:29 < jadew> Rickta59, what they did with typescript was just amazing
2019-06-09T23:23:05 < jadew> they managed to take garbage "owned by everyone" and made it good
2019-06-09T23:23:54 < jadew> also, they're not really in the killing technologies business
2019-06-09T23:24:13 < jadew> even with HTML, they made it better
2019-06-09T23:29:35 < bitmask> this print is fighting me, just added some glue to try and keep it on the bed
2019-06-09T23:29:46 < jadew> the tiny cocks?
2019-06-09T23:29:49 < bitmask> yup
2019-06-09T23:31:05 < bitmask> its still a bunch of separate pieces, until it combines into one its not very stable, each small island curls up a little as it cools and contracts, and the nozzle hits it on the next pass
2019-06-09T23:31:21 < bitmask> it will stop curling when its a bigger piece
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--- Day changed Mon Jun 10 2019
2019-06-10T00:03:23 < Steffanx> bitmask: is printing cocks?
2019-06-10T00:04:02 < bitmask> jadew said the first few layers of cura's tree supports looked like cocks
2019-06-10T00:04:22 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/LI22C1v.png
2019-06-10T00:04:30 < bitmask> I think he just likes cocks
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2019-06-10T00:06:49 < Thorn> how do I solder FPCs manually? I soldered a display today and it didn't work the first time (and the soldering job looks pretty ugly)
2019-06-10T00:12:17 < Thorn> btw I have a source file with font data (which is not referenced from the same file). gcc optimizes it out. but if you declare extern const font5x8[][]; first then it doesn't
2019-06-10T00:14:05 < Mangy_Dog> thorn dont solder the fpc
2019-06-10T00:14:11 < Mangy_Dog> solder the fpc connector
2019-06-10T00:15:09 < Mangy_Dog> make sure theres so solder bridging and  use plenty of flux then go over with with a solder wickll
2019-06-10T00:15:21 < Thorn> I can't glue the display to the pcb if there is a connector under it
2019-06-10T00:15:57 < Mangy_Dog> umm
2019-06-10T00:16:00 < Mangy_Dog> you cant
2019-06-10T00:16:13 < Mangy_Dog> you place the fpc on the other side of the board
2019-06-10T00:16:47 < Mangy_Dog> i mean you can
2019-06-10T00:16:53 < Mangy_Dog> you just place it on the underside
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2019-06-10T00:20:46 < Mangy_Dog> though do be sure you got the 1-40 pin orientation correct...........
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2019-06-10T00:27:12 < Cracki> Thorn, I'd tin the pads on the pcb, add some flux to the cable contacts, press the cable down on the pcb (with something soft!) so a little pcb pad is still showing, then melt each contact from the pcb side
2019-06-10T00:27:43 < Cracki> unless you have one of these stamp-like soldering iron tips specially for flatflex
2019-06-10T00:27:49 < Steffanx> Oh the brains bitmask  is it something you made or thingiverse?
2019-06-10T00:27:50 < Thorn> that's basically what I ended up doing
2019-06-10T00:28:07 < bitmask> thingiverse
2019-06-10T00:28:07 < Thorn> but it was pretty awkward
2019-06-10T00:28:15 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:620846
2019-06-10T00:28:17 < Cracki> I can imagine
2019-06-10T00:28:18 < Thorn> I guess it may be because of lack of experience
2019-06-10T00:28:22 < bitmask> just thought it looked neat
2019-06-10T00:28:35 < bitmask> and have a roll of natural pla to kill
2019-06-10T00:29:16 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/11j_15rWOtZHdS4pNhnPU7dnMMdoreWb9/view?usp=sharing
2019-06-10T00:29:22 < kakimir> it's sexy now
2019-06-10T00:29:30 < kakimir> with shiny valves
2019-06-10T00:30:29 < Steffanx> Like new
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2019-06-10T02:18:06 < jadew> summer nights are freaking weird
2019-06-10T02:18:27 < jadew> if I keep my window open I keep having the feeling that it's morning
2019-06-10T02:18:39 < jadew> there's a lot of noise coming in
2019-06-10T02:21:30 < jadew> planes, cars, police cars, etc
2019-06-10T02:37:11 < Steffanx> Big city or is every average Romanian village like that
2019-06-10T02:37:23 < Steffanx> Its very quiet here :)
2019-06-10T02:42:03 < Cracki> where do you guys get your laptop display cloths from? I have one for glasses, so it's kinda tiny. looking for something that almost covers 14"
2019-06-10T02:44:18 < Thorn> ozone says location of an array is "const" and can't resolve it to a memory address, what does it mean
2019-06-10T02:44:37 < Thorn> it was converted into some kind of lookup table in code?
2019-06-10T02:46:22 < Cracki> means compiler optimized accesses and doesn't know the base address anymore
2019-06-10T02:46:29 < Cracki> or lookup table, maybe :P
2019-06-10T02:46:32 < Cracki> what kinda array is it
2019-06-10T02:47:05 < Thorn> static const basically
2019-06-10T02:47:13 < Cracki> maybe you can look up individual elements stll
2019-06-10T02:47:14 < Thorn> not static but in an anonymous namespace
2019-06-10T02:47:15 < Cracki> i
2019-06-10T02:47:23 < Thorn> and only used in one place
2019-06-10T02:48:41 < Cracki> I doubt compilers are smart enough yet to move global variables onto the stack if they're used like that
2019-06-10T02:49:05 < Cracki> maybe it's decided the data should live in registers instead of ram
2019-06-10T02:51:15 < Thorn> the data has to be in flash one way or the other
2019-06-10T02:55:38 < Cracki> hm
2019-06-10T02:55:44 < Cracki> so it's read only?
2019-06-10T02:56:04 < Cracki> ah right array of const things
2019-06-10T02:58:32 < Thorn> yeah it's a list of init commands for a display
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2019-06-10T03:23:38 < Cracki> ya, it might have pulled those constants into code
2019-06-10T03:24:15 < Cracki> volatile ftw
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2019-06-10T04:07:27 < jadew> Steffanx, big city
2019-06-10T04:14:34 < jadew> any ideas on what sort of laser power you need to engrave ICs?
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2019-06-10T04:29:48 < Cracki> 1 watt maybe, 10 watt will probably do it, 100 is gonna melt it
2019-06-10T04:30:32 < Cracki> there are charts for laser engraving, material, power, all that
2019-06-10T04:33:38 < Cracki> 1 watt might penetrate too much before it shows any effect, which is why people use higher power with faster feed
2019-06-10T04:35:51 < jadew> interesting
2019-06-10T04:36:16 < jadew> I'd get one of those 40 watt lasers, but I don't have enough room for it
2019-06-10T04:46:11 < specing> How long is NRST held low before actual programming begins (use of SWCLK/SWDIO pins)? I'm asking because I'd like to use these TSSOP20's pins in my application, and for doing so I can disconnect the other user via a mosfet
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2019-06-10T05:13:54 < bitmask> hmm, 10.5 hours into this print and I'm only 1/6th done
2019-06-10T05:26:35 < jadew> so it's not gonna fail for another day or so
2019-06-10T05:26:37 < jadew> ?
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2019-06-10T06:29:58 < bitmask> heh
2019-06-10T06:30:04 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/ItXlagw.png
2019-06-10T06:30:08 < bitmask> there is 12 hours in
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2019-06-10T06:37:01 < mawk> what is i
2019-06-10T06:37:01 < mawk> t
2019-06-10T06:42:46 < boddax> alien food
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2019-06-10T07:00:03 < jadew> are there any standard, water resistant DC power connectors?
2019-06-10T07:00:14 < Rickta59> trailer hitch
2019-06-10T07:00:47 < jadew> miniature
2019-06-10T07:01:02 < Rickta59> vw bug trailer running light connector?
2019-06-10T07:01:25 < jadew> as big as a regular 2.5 mm DC connector
2019-06-10T07:01:29 < Rickta59> i'm sure there are rc standards on hobby king
2019-06-10T07:01:39 < jadew> hmm, should look into that
2019-06-10T07:01:40 < jadew> thanks
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2019-06-10T07:21:55 < dongs> water resistant waht
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2019-06-10T07:22:15 < dongs> ive never seen any water resistant rc shit, even on boats its just good old XT60/XT90 shit
2019-06-10T07:22:30 < dongs> cuz the battery is usually inside something somewhat water resistant enclosure
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2019-06-10T07:47:22 < bitmask> I got these weird ass connectors, let me get a link
2019-06-10T07:48:27 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801485880.html
2019-06-10T07:48:37 < bitmask> havent tried em yet
2019-06-10T07:48:40 < bitmask> they are big though
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2019-06-10T10:51:17 < R2COM> why i cant buy cheap american LED driver
2019-06-10T10:51:38 < R2COM> chinese ICs getting more and more reasonable nowadays
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2019-06-10T11:09:06 < dongs> becuase america is dead
2019-06-10T11:12:57 < Steffanx> Shouldn't you be using something by Infineon, R2COM ? :)
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2019-06-10T13:50:46 < Steffanx> where is ReadError_
2019-06-10T13:54:02 < jly> probably  in stm64
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2019-06-10T14:08:57 < dongs> stoned
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2019-06-10T14:14:32 < Thorn> should I consider an rtos if I only have 8 KB of ram?
2019-06-10T14:14:51 < kakimir> it depends
2019-06-10T14:15:07 < Thorn> and need multiple low power modes
2019-06-10T14:15:56 < zyp> how many threads do you imagine you'll be running
2019-06-10T14:15:57 < zyp> ?
2019-06-10T14:16:31 < Thorn> at least 3
2019-06-10T14:16:31 < Thorn> maybe up to 5
2019-06-10T14:16:41 < Mangy_Dog> what kind of tasts?
2019-06-10T14:16:44 < Mangy_Dog> tasks
2019-06-10T14:16:47 < zyp> how are you gonna be managing the low power modes?
2019-06-10T14:16:53 < Mangy_Dog> might get away with a simple interval scheduler
2019-06-10T14:19:37 < Thorn> I need several async drivers (radio, usb), radio protocol driver (with many different states, retries, etc.), main app thread with UI handling (keys, display)
2019-06-10T14:20:17 < Thorn> low power: WFI when nothing to do + deep sleep when UI & radio protocol state allow it
2019-06-10T14:20:35 < Thorn> wakeup using rtc / lptimer
2019-06-10T14:20:41 < zyp> the challenge with only 8k of RAM is that each thread needs enough space for its own stack
2019-06-10T14:21:27 < zyp> polling each code module in a loop from a single main thread saves that
2019-06-10T14:21:46 < Mangy_Dog> or use a simple scheduler library
2019-06-10T14:22:00 < dongs> or use zyp's rtos
2019-06-10T14:22:22 < zyp> my rtos doesn't have much in the way of useful sleep scheduling
2019-06-10T14:23:28 < Mangy_Dog> the library i use is threadcontroller
2019-06-10T14:23:36 < Mangy_Dog> its built for arduino but works in stm32 as well i think
2019-06-10T14:23:45 < Mangy_Dog> its pretty basic
2019-06-10T14:23:56 < Mangy_Dog> liturally just schedules tasks
2019-06-10T14:24:27 < Mangy_Dog> and as long as you time your intervals right so a task doesnt take longer than the interval time it works well enough
2019-06-10T14:24:35 < Mangy_Dog> its kinda faked none blocking
2019-06-10T14:25:03 < Thorn> in my last project I used an event queue. interrupt handlers put events into queue, main loop dispatches events
2019-06-10T14:25:23 < Thorn> it worked surprisingly well except all the "threads" are not threads but state machines
2019-06-10T14:26:47 < Thorn> (I reused a ring buffer from my uart driver. thank Stroustrup for remplates)
2019-06-10T14:27:26 < Thorn> but this time I'm going to have multiple levels of state machines
2019-06-10T14:31:57 < Thorn> another twist is I want to make my radio driver reusable between projects and some of them will definitely use an RTOS. so I may have to add an abstraction layer to adapt it to rtos/non-rtos envs, which is a mess
2019-06-10T14:33:26 < Thorn> (afaik lwip for example has never really completely solved this problem)
2019-06-10T14:38:02 < dongs> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/10/ibm_raises_axe_for_significant_workforce_balancing_in_europe_says_employee_rep_council/ RIP Ivan Reedman
2019-06-10T14:39:06 < dongs> wait he's already fired from ibm
2019-06-10T14:39:26 < Steffanx> yeah
2019-06-10T14:39:27 < Steffanx> ages ago
2019-06-10T14:39:31 < dongs> dec 2018
2019-06-10T14:39:39 < dongs> now he's a clueless faggot at NCC group
2019-06-10T14:39:51 < Steffanx> Yes back at ncc :)
2019-06-10T14:39:53 < dongs> he still refuses to accept my dicked-in invitation
2019-06-10T14:40:15 < Steffanx> i wonder where the famous drone fits in.
2019-06-10T14:40:32 < Steffanx> was that pre 2015 already
2019-06-10T14:41:05 < Steffanx> hm, it is. Damn
2019-06-10T14:41:14 < dongs> zano is ancient now yeah
2019-06-10T14:41:58 < Steffanx> is kickstarter dead too?
2019-06-10T14:42:22 < Steffanx> same as pakilancer?
2019-06-10T14:44:03 < dongs> The
2019-06-10T14:44:03 < dongs> difference in performance from C to hand crafted optimised assembly is at least 400% increase in
2019-06-10T14:44:06 < dongs> performance. I have checked this time and time again. The performance is not from coding in
2019-06-10T14:44:09 < dongs> assembly, you can still code poorly in assembly and in which case a good C compiler would produce
2019-06-10T14:44:12 < dongs> faster code. But in assembly you can optimise everything one instruction at a time. I spend my time
2019-06-10T14:44:15 < dongs> hand crafting, well though out algorithms in assembly and the performance is largely gained by really
2019-06-10T14:44:18 < dongs> seeing how the specific processor you are working on handles certain data times, interrupts, dma etc
2019-06-10T14:44:21 < dongs> and coding to take full advantage of this. It also comes from lateral thinking and designing algorithms
2019-06-10T14:44:24 < dongs> to use what the processor naturally does best. A C compiler does a very good job of being a good
2019-06-10T14:44:27 < dongs> solution for every CPU, but they are never exceptional in any circumstance in my experience. A
2019-06-10T14:44:30 < dongs> downside to assembly is that it isn’t portable where as C is highly portable
2019-06-10T14:44:32 < dongs> (c) reedman
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2019-06-10T15:07:09 < jly> REEDMAN
2019-06-10T15:27:50 < Thorn> 30 mA backlight (needs to be 50mA, wrong resistor) causes temperature sensors to read almost 2°C higher
2019-06-10T15:28:07 < Thorn> I'm afraid to test in charge mode with 1A
2019-06-10T15:40:10 < Steffanx> just do it and video it.
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2019-06-10T16:09:01 < dongs> Thorn: did you put your temperature sensor on a cutout in pcb
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2019-06-10T16:51:57 < Thorn> dongs: nope :(
2019-06-10T16:52:17 < Thorn> solid ground plane
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2019-06-10T17:00:32 < sk_tandt> Greetings! I'm writing an app for an STM32L476 MCU that should write and read on an USART, and I can write just fine
2019-06-10T17:01:24 < sk_tandt> The problem lies in reading: I can't trigger USART2_IRQ_Handler nor RxCpltCallback
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2019-06-10T17:18:33 < Thorn> sk_tandt: did you enable the interrupt?
2019-06-10T17:18:50 < sk_tandt> Yep
2019-06-10T17:21:22 < sk_tandt> And, if I do call transmit_it, I do trigger the interrupt everytime
2019-06-10T17:21:26 < sk_tandt> Mode is TX_RX
2019-06-10T17:25:46 < Thorn> what about the RX pin, is it properly configured
2019-06-10T17:29:13 < sk_tandt> Good question, how do I tell?
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2019-06-10T17:30:29 < sk_tandt> It is PA_3
2019-06-10T17:31:57 < Thorn> google STM32L476 datasheet
2019-06-10T17:31:59 < Thorn> open https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stm32l476je.pdf
2019-06-10T17:32:03 < Thorn> ctrl+F PA3
2019-06-10T17:32:12 < Thorn> find the AF (=AF7)
2019-06-10T17:33:04 < Thorn> check GPIOA registers with a debugger, most importantly MODER and AFR
2019-06-10T17:33:17 < Thorn> see if mode is AF and AF is 7
2019-06-10T17:34:31 < Thorn> also if it's some kind of nucleo board PA2/PA3 may not be connected to the header iirc
2019-06-10T17:34:35 < Thorn> because they're connected directly to the st-link
2019-06-10T17:38:03 < Thorn> this is something the schematics for your board, whatever it is, should tell you
2019-06-10T17:38:33 < sk_tandt> I'm using the STM32L476 Discovery
2019-06-10T17:39:03 < sk_tandt> And, yes, they are not routed through the STLink
2019-06-10T17:39:18 < sk_tandt> I'm using an FTDI serial development cable, which rx's fine
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2019-06-10T17:42:34 < sk_tandt> Btw, how do I check AF mode? I can see the registers for AFRs, but can't find out where the mode is
2019-06-10T17:42:57 < sk_tandt> (Only AFRL2 and AFRL3 are !=0, and are == 7)
2019-06-10T17:44:01 < Thorn> sounds good, what about MODER
2019-06-10T17:45:33 < sk_tandt> Various registers, set at either 2 or 3
2019-06-10T17:46:08 < sk_tandt> From 0 to 15: 3 3 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2
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2019-06-10T17:56:35 < sk_tandt> Just tested RX calbe for continuity, which checks out
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2019-06-10T18:18:32 < sk_tandt> So, it turns out it IS reading data from the USART
2019-06-10T18:18:41 < sk_tandt> And it is populated within the holding variable
2019-06-10T18:18:51 < sk_tandt> But, no callback is triggered. Why is that?
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2019-06-10T19:25:35 < boddax> bitmask finished to print that unidentified flying object?
2019-06-10T19:26:25 < bitmask> its a brain, well half a brain, and its halfway done
2019-06-10T19:27:09 < boddax> take a pic
2019-06-10T19:28:57 < Steffanx> we need a live stream
2019-06-10T19:29:10 < Steffanx> And we need your plotter with a live stream and a live controller
2019-06-10T19:29:31 < jadew> why not a different part of the body?
2019-06-10T19:29:54 < boddax> wich one jadew?
2019-06-10T19:30:08 < jadew> something more interesting
2019-06-10T19:30:11 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/6eZYjQL.png
2019-06-10T19:30:27 < jadew> boobs, or an ass for example
2019-06-10T19:30:48 < jadew> bitmask, why is it so full?
2019-06-10T19:30:55 < jadew> did you do 90% infill?
2019-06-10T19:31:05 < bitmask> 90%? its 10%
2019-06-10T19:31:16 < jadew> why is it taking days to print then?
2019-06-10T19:31:27 < Mangy_Dog> personallly i would say 10% ius rather low infill i tend to go with 15-30
2019-06-10T19:31:27 < jadew> boobs would have taken less
2019-06-10T19:31:29 < bitmask> jesus, why are you bitching so much
2019-06-10T19:31:43 < bitmask> because im printing it at 0.12 layer height
2019-06-10T19:31:47 < Mangy_Dog> bitmask is it your brain?:D
2019-06-10T19:31:51 < jadew> ah
2019-06-10T19:31:54 < Mangy_Dog> (i mean that in a ncie way not a insult)
2019-06-10T19:32:02 < boddax> still big job to do more
2019-06-10T19:32:04 < bitmask> nah, I didnt have an mri scan to use :)
2019-06-10T19:32:15 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2019-06-10T19:32:22 < bitmask> jadew I already have enough boobs
2019-06-10T19:32:30 < Mangy_Dog> i have boobs too
2019-06-10T19:32:30 < boddax> SS14 smd itaùs an 1N4001 ?
2019-06-10T19:32:49 < jadew> bitmask, but they're nothing without a brain, eh?
2019-06-10T19:32:56 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/S8sPuE8.jpg
2019-06-10T19:33:13 < Steffanx> your wife wouldnt accept boobs or an arse in the living room either jadew
2019-06-10T19:33:33 < boddax> i need brain too ..i feel brainless
2019-06-10T19:34:11 < jadew> Steffanx, I wouldn't put them in the living room, I'd keep them here, where I can look at them
2019-06-10T19:35:17 < aandrew> I could actually print my brain, I have the CDs from two MRIs
2019-06-10T19:35:27 < jpa-> Steffanx: why not?
2019-06-10T19:35:44 < aandrew> bitmask: wow those are nice prints
2019-06-10T19:35:53 < aandrew> my next door neighbour has a bunch of art like that around his house
2019-06-10T19:36:22 < bitmask> they are vase mode so they use very little filament, its a nice filament color test
2019-06-10T19:36:29 < Steffanx> The parrot would like it jpa-?
2019-06-10T19:37:15 < jpa-> probably more than me :D
2019-06-10T19:37:23 < boddax> planning to enlight with leds bitmask?
2019-06-10T19:37:33 < bitmask> there are areas it has trouble with though, like the top of the ass and the shoulder area as you can see on the two silky ones in the middle
2019-06-10T19:37:39 < bitmask> the brain? yea
2019-06-10T19:37:58 < bitmask> this is cheap natural pla so its a little yellow but should be fine when lit up
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2019-06-10T19:39:34 < Cracki> >brain ass
2019-06-10T19:39:58 < englishman> http://keyhut.com/pos.htm
2019-06-10T19:40:07 < englishman> professional pos software
2019-06-10T19:40:14 < Steffanx> try englishman
2019-06-10T19:40:16 < Steffanx> *ty
2019-06-10T19:44:31 < boddax> :(( wheres optocoupler under kicad pcb libs?
2019-06-10T19:45:03 < jadew> englishman, is that made in Fox Pro?
2019-06-10T19:48:30 < Steffanx> in your custom part library boddax
2019-06-10T19:49:14 < boddax> oh no
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2019-06-10T19:57:48 < boddax> existing lib DIP-4_W7.62mm is fine
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2019-06-10T20:59:43 < Steffanx> So did you start printing some, jpa-? :)
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2019-06-10T21:00:18 < Steffanx> or just go for https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3048278
2019-06-10T21:01:24 < jadew> lol
2019-06-10T21:19:55 < mawk> I'm in a public park in paris
2019-06-10T21:20:04 < mawk> I saw 5 rats for now
2019-06-10T21:20:13 < mawk> including a cute white one
2019-06-10T21:26:31 < boddax> yellow color?
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2019-06-10T21:54:34 < qyx> playing with allwinner F1C100S
2019-06-10T21:54:46 < qyx> so far, u-boot is running
2019-06-10T21:55:36 < Cracki> so four of five rats in paris are NON-WHITE. is that what you're saying, mawk? :P
2019-06-10T21:56:49 < aandrew> mawk: were any of them acting like chefs?
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2019-06-10T22:38:39 < mawk> lol aandrew 
2019-06-10T22:39:02 < mawk> no, but the white one scared away a baby brown one
2019-06-10T22:39:11 < mawk> lol Cracki 
2019-06-10T22:39:16 < mawk> yeah I think white rats are very rare
2019-06-10T22:39:20 < Thorn> am I the only one who has never seen a rat in my life (except a pet one)
2019-06-10T22:39:25 < mawk> they're the ones that fled away from labs I think
2019-06-10T22:39:31 < mawk> or were just dumped from them
2019-06-10T22:39:46 < mawk> look harder Thorn in your local subway you should see rats or mice
2019-06-10T22:39:52 < mawk> on the tracks
2019-06-10T22:40:05 < Cracki> if not subway, then starbucks
2019-06-10T22:40:12 < mawk> lol
2019-06-10T22:40:14 < Cracki> I hear starbucks is quite liberal about their toilets
2019-06-10T22:40:17 < Thorn> the closest subway is 800 km away
2019-06-10T22:41:34 < Cracki> only rodents I see around here are tiny mice scurrying in the bushes
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2019-06-10T22:43:36 < mawk> I mean underground, tube, metro
2019-06-10T22:43:47 < mawk> not the franchise restaurants that rip off owners
2019-06-10T22:43:58 < mawk> but in these restaurants you should see rats too
2019-06-10T22:44:46 < Cracki> yeah, at least out back. behind our uni cafeteria/mensa, I've seen a handful of bait boxes
2019-06-10T22:45:14 < mawk> here they put rat poison boxes in every public park
2019-06-10T22:46:22 < Cracki> they do nothing about pigeons though... some dumbasses even feed them
2019-06-10T22:46:41 < Cracki> they should feed the street cleaners instead
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2019-06-10T22:48:14 < catphish> FPGAs are so much harder than i expected :(
2019-06-10T22:52:55 < upgrdman> catphish, what's hard? (i'm not disagreeing)
2019-06-10T22:53:54 < catphish> upgrdman: well i'm using verilog which is super easy, afaik i understand how to write the code and make it do things
2019-06-10T22:54:17 < catphish> but then there's a really steep curve when it comes to interfacing with other modern hardware
2019-06-10T22:54:19 < upgrdman> ya i use verilog too. much prefer it to vhdl
2019-06-10T22:54:30 < upgrdman> hmm ya. i guess it depends on the protocol
2019-06-10T22:54:47 < upgrdman> and if theres vendor ip for it or not
2019-06-10T22:54:48 < catphish> like i'm trying to use some DDR ram and suddenly i'm in a whole bunch of places i don't understand
2019-06-10T22:55:10 < catphish> in a way vendor IP makes things more confusing
2019-06-10T22:55:39 < upgrdman> i've use EBR but not discreet external memory :/
2019-06-10T22:55:57 < catphish> i'm using xilinx, and using their memory interface suddenly adds a ton of extra requirements that i don't understand yet
2019-06-10T22:56:16 < catphish> i think the problem is that i'm trying to do complicated things (like discreet ram) which is kinda the deep end
2019-06-10T22:56:27 < upgrdman> which reminds me: anyone know if dual-port EBR requires metastability fuckery if the two ports are on different clock domains? or does the EBR handle that?
2019-06-10T22:57:12 < upgrdman> fwiw, lattice's software is much simpler than xilinx's
2019-06-10T22:57:23 < upgrdman> but xilinx is much more powerful.
2019-06-10T23:03:26 < specing> Simpler?
2019-06-10T23:10:43 < upgrdman> specing, Diamond is, well, "cleaner" and less cluttered than ISE. I have not used Vivado, but last I checked, it was even worse in that regard.
2019-06-10T23:11:27 < upgrdman> like Word 97 vs Word 365... just more to-the-point and less cluttered
2019-06-10T23:15:00 < specing> when I last used ISE&Vivado, I only used it to hit the build button :)
2019-06-10T23:15:05 < specing> edited VHDL in emacs
2019-06-10T23:15:41 < Steffanx> had to mention emacs uh? :P
2019-06-10T23:18:18 < specing> I used vim as well
2019-06-10T23:18:52 < englishman> lol https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/zG9Bxw/eksplosjon-paa-hydrogenstasjon-i-sandvika-svaert-overrasket
2019-06-10T23:26:00 < Thorn> >ekstremt høyt smell
2019-06-10T23:27:12 < Steffanx> RIP zyp
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2019-06-10T23:43:11 < mawk> I did vhdl in school not verilog
2019-06-10T23:43:17 < mawk> you tried it catphish ?
2019-06-10T23:45:35 < upgrdman> vhdl is so fucking annyoing
2019-06-10T23:45:41 < upgrdman> verilog is annoying too, but less so
2019-06-10T23:45:59 < upgrdman> i feel like vhdl was designed by someone with mental issues
2019-06-10T23:48:45 < specing> VHDL is based on Ada, the latter of which is one of the few programming language in existance that have actually been designed, and not just thrown together
2019-06-10T23:49:27 < catphish> mawk: nope, i started by trying verilog and i like it
2019-06-10T23:55:27 < Cracki> "was designed" sounds as if that in itself were relevant. it's not. the goals (of the design) are relevant.
--- Day changed Tue Jun 11 2019
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2019-06-11T00:11:47 < Cracki> ada was designed to be very anal. vhdl was commissioned by the US DoD
2019-06-11T00:12:52 < catphish> Cracki: that surprises me, i always thought verilog was from the USA and VHDL from the UK/europe
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2019-06-11T00:13:00 < Cracki> ada was from germany
2019-06-11T00:13:03 < Cracki> so that's where that's from
2019-06-11T00:13:24 < Cracki> Wirth came up with it. maybe he isn't german, but german speaking at least.
2019-06-11T00:14:34 < Cracki> not sure how they picked ada to base vhdl on, except it must have been one of the highest-level and most formally specified langs at the time
2019-06-11T00:15:03 < Cracki> (nothing beats lisp, but that's because lisp is primordial soup)
2019-06-11T00:21:37 < sync> catphish: in practice verilog is more common in merica and vhdl in yurop
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2019-06-11T00:59:17 < kakimir> hello pump night shift
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2019-06-11T01:24:32 < Cracki> what's a cheap way to counter-terrorize a downstairs neighbor and his fucking subwoofer?
2019-06-11T01:25:25 < Cracki> was considering a bigass stepper motor because those can shake tables
2019-06-11T01:25:39 < Cracki> (and I have the electronics to drive those already)
2019-06-11T01:25:40 < Thorn> is the electrical panel accessible
2019-06-11T01:27:47 < Cracki> yes but then I'd have to run
2019-06-11T01:28:16 < Cracki> that might be feasible during daytime, when I can fuck off into the street
2019-06-11T01:28:39 < kakimir> see if you can access his network
2019-06-11T01:28:45 < Thorn> connect their N to another phase to feed them 400V
2019-06-11T01:28:57 < Cracki> good point, I think I still have the password
2019-06-11T01:30:21 < kakimir> I wouldn't mess with electricity
2019-06-11T01:31:07 < kakimir> it's goes right into criminal area
2019-06-11T01:31:33 < con3> ^ Would be a nice way to buy your neighbour a set of new electronics
2019-06-11T01:31:49 < Cracki> he gets a tire necklace at best
2019-06-11T01:31:56 < con3> fuuuuuuccccckkk
2019-06-11T01:32:06 < specing> Lol
2019-06-11T01:32:06 < con3> that got dark real quick :D
2019-06-11T01:32:15 < Cracki> you guys down there break my heart
2019-06-11T01:32:26 < Cracki> just an awful situation
2019-06-11T01:32:53 < Thorn> install a time relay and set if to trigger a few days later for best effect
2019-06-11T01:33:11 < con3> Cracki: feel like shit has gotten a lot worse in sa than tire necklaces
2019-06-11T01:33:34 < Cracki> the zulu seem to know who feeds them; I heard they're now on the side of whitey
2019-06-11T01:34:21 < Cracki> some people just won't let you coexist, they need to be contained
2019-06-11T01:34:53 < con3> Cracki: yeah, but the murders have become very brutal and hate filled. recently they've gone to putting kids in microwaves and droving people in boiling water and that's on the end of things I feel I can mention on this channel, the rest is just fucked
2019-06-11T01:35:02 < Cracki> hell
2019-06-11T01:35:26 < Cracki> I think it's fair to call those that do this "monsters"
2019-06-11T01:35:43 < con3> worst part is that they usually kill the kids last and make them watch
2019-06-11T01:36:21 < con3> not a place that i would invite foreigners anymore. Whether your from sa or not, people dont care here
2019-06-11T01:36:49 < Cracki> I don't see any peaceful solution to this...
2019-06-11T01:37:07 < Cracki> you guys need proper weapons to even just defend yourselves
2019-06-11T01:40:29 < con3> Cracki: even with weapons your screwed. People wont leave either, like most people that live here love this country and its all they know, but I think the mindset that "it won't get that bad" is probably the worst thing rn. shit is spreading to neighbouring countries as well. But yeah hoping for some peaceful resolution, it's still in the minority but even the minority is more than white people
2019-06-11T01:41:07 < con3> Cracki: you from the states?
2019-06-11T01:41:17 < Cracki> no, central europe.
2019-06-11T01:41:40 < Cracki> SA is the canary in the mine. what happens to you will happen to all of us unless we snap out of it
2019-06-11T01:42:40 < Cracki> as soon as you're a minority in your own homeland, it's game over
2019-06-11T01:43:03 < Cracki> unless you're willing to use force to maintain order
2019-06-11T01:43:58 < kakimir> black nazis
2019-06-11T01:46:21 < Cracki> depressing topic. what's uplifting?
2019-06-11T01:46:54 < con3> eh.... 
2019-06-11T01:47:14 < Cracki> that much, ic
2019-06-11T01:47:35 < con3> I'm gonna eat ramen in a bit?
2019-06-11T01:47:43 < Cracki> hehe
2019-06-11T01:47:59 < Cracki> we're just a few years away from colonizing the moon and mars
2019-06-11T01:48:39 < Cracki> we can all just step into a rocket and fuck off into the universe
2019-06-11T01:48:44 < con3> We're really in an insane scienific period
2019-06-11T01:49:05 < con3> I mean crispr also looks insane depending on how it'll be used
2019-06-11T01:49:13 < Cracki> you kinda start to feel the exponential growth now
2019-06-11T01:49:59 < Cracki> dentistry is still in the dark ages but at least they experiment with stem cells now
2019-06-11T01:50:23 < con3> stem cells for?
2019-06-11T01:50:31 < Cracki> there are methods to coax the tooth to regrow dentin faster. it won't fix the enamel but that's good enough
2019-06-11T01:50:41 < Cracki> with stem cells you could regrow whole teeth
2019-06-11T01:50:53 < Cracki> literally in your jaw
2019-06-11T01:51:19 < con3> wow
2019-06-11T01:51:26  * con3 googles
2019-06-11T01:51:57 < Cracki> 1-2 years ago they experimented with cavity fixing in mice/rats and that went rather well. they coaxed the stem cells in a tooth to regrow the drilled out part using low intensity laser
2019-06-11T01:52:42 < Cracki> and of course there's what medicine already does with bones, namely using some gelatin sponge infused with stem cells, and implant that to help bone growth along (which is what dentin is)
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2019-06-11T01:53:13 < Cracki> a little hard to do in mouse teeth because they're as large as grains of sand
2019-06-11T01:53:41 < con3> Cracki: what's the regrowth period ?
2019-06-11T01:53:46 < Cracki> dunno, weeks
2019-06-11T01:53:50 < Cracki> for cavities
2019-06-11T01:54:38 < Cracki> in that paper they drilled a cavity, then put some filler sponge in there, and glued it shut with whatever dentists use these days, and then shined some laser on it
2019-06-11T01:55:23 < Laurenceb> wtf lunix
2019-06-11T01:55:44 < kakimir> lurencer
2019-06-11T01:55:45 < Laurenceb> discovered the problem with my alsa shit, alsa resampling works (with a time offset)
2019-06-11T01:56:02 < Laurenceb> but my maya44 usb+ is sampling at the wrong rate
2019-06-11T01:57:32 < Laurenceb> seems to work ok with c code using alsa directly
2019-06-11T01:58:03 < Laurenceb> but with arecord its off by 7.8% 
2019-06-11T01:58:19 < Laurenceb> which isnt quite 44.1/48khz
2019-06-11T01:58:22 < Laurenceb> weird
2019-06-11T02:00:48 < Laurenceb> maybe there are multiple issues at the same time
2019-06-11T02:01:13 < Laurenceb> alsa gets confused between 44.1 and 48 then there is some other glitch causing a small data loss
2019-06-11T02:01:38 < Laurenceb> I can very accurately fix it in matlab, 7.832% offset
2019-06-11T02:03:29 < Laurenceb> shrug, methlab bodge tiem
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2019-06-11T02:05:48 < Laurenceb> oh wow the influxdb wambulance server died, hdd failed and there was no backup, who could have predicted this?
2019-06-11T02:06:46 < Cracki> have you considered changing jobs
2019-06-11T02:06:55 < Cracki> you have your phd already, don't you
2019-06-11T02:06:58 < karlp> well, it's your fault it didn't have a backup....
2019-06-11T02:06:59 < Laurenceb> yeah I'm quitting soon
2019-06-11T02:07:07 < Laurenceb> karlp: I do, as wav files
2019-06-11T02:07:22 < karlp> those are _useless_ to anyone othe rthan you, as you well know.
2019-06-11T02:07:30 < Laurenceb> with an sql database organising them
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2019-06-11T02:08:03 < kakimir> Laurenceb: who maintains server?
2019-06-11T02:08:07 < Laurenceb> karlp: the other guy runs the influxdb server, not my jerb
2019-06-11T02:08:27 < kakimir> let me try again: who maintains the server*
2019-06-11T02:08:43 < kakimir> I try to use proper english
2019-06-11T02:08:43 < Cracki> apparently nobody
2019-06-11T02:08:44 < Laurenceb> he is going to have to learn about RAID, and if I am in a good mood I'll load all the wav files back into it
2019-06-11T02:09:11 < Cracki> he has to learn about regular backups and maybe automating configuration and setup
2019-06-11T02:09:20 < Laurenceb> atm he still thinks all the data is lost, my sides
2019-06-11T02:09:23 < Cracki> so he can reinstall the thing from scratch with a single command
2019-06-11T02:09:29 < Cracki> let him simmer
2019-06-11T02:09:32 < Laurenceb> yeah
2019-06-11T02:09:36 < kakimir> send the drive to recovery
2019-06-11T02:09:44 < kakimir> your company has the money
2019-06-11T02:09:46 < Cracki> yes make them spend 1k bucks
2019-06-11T02:09:51 < Laurenceb> they will find his pronz stash :P
2019-06-11T02:10:09 < Cracki> for such a shaky thing, they should be using SSDs at least
2019-06-11T02:10:11 < Laurenceb> k bbl
2019-06-11T02:10:43 < kakimir> where is lurencershow going?
2019-06-11T02:10:44 < kakimir> sleep?
2019-06-11T02:11:29 < Cracki> it's 10 past midnight in his place...
2019-06-11T02:12:35 < Cracki> reminds me, I want to rise early too. there might be (old) audio stuff to haul out of a lecture hall tomorrow
2019-06-11T02:19:45 < englishman> lol @ laurent failing
2019-06-11T02:20:12 < englishman> the BEST place for all your research data is a single point of failure of course
2019-06-11T02:46:39 < karlp> Steffanx: hahaahhahaha https://etactica.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/EG-200-3rdparty-sw-integration-guide_rev2.20.pdf
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2019-06-11T03:06:31 < karlp> englishman:neat, I was all like, "ohkay... some dos/win311 era PoS software, but that 13/05/19 pic seals the deal!
2019-06-11T03:08:21 < karlp> where in the motherland is Thorn again?
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2019-06-11T03:20:09 < karlp> my hahahah comment was _meant_ to be, "20:15 <Steffanx> had to mention emacs uh? :P" 
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2019-06-11T03:55:50 < Laurenceb> muh influxdb
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2019-06-11T05:43:52 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/OpKdeM0.png
2019-06-11T05:43:56 < bitmask> 35 hours in 
2019-06-11T05:45:59 < dongs> disgusting what is that shit
2019-06-11T05:46:10 < bitmask> haha its half a brain
2019-06-11T05:48:16 < emeb_mac> whose brain?
2019-06-11T05:48:26 < dongs> bitmasks, obviously
2019-06-11T05:50:39 < bitmask> no, i wish
2019-06-11T05:50:46 < bitmask> just some random mri scan that someone used
2019-06-11T05:51:18 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:620846
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2019-06-11T06:12:05 < emeb_mac> mmm... LED lit
2019-06-11T06:13:10 < emeb_mac> pack that sucker full of WS281x and get the party started
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2019-06-11T06:44:55 < englishman> my garage is now so full of leds that this 12v 20a chink power supply overheats
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2019-06-11T07:20:43 < emeb_mac> "we're gonna need a bigger power supply"
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2019-06-11T09:07:59 < jpa-> Steffanx: with my printer everything just looks like a melted blob of plastic
2019-06-11T09:09:13 < Steffanx> Awh
2019-06-11T09:09:17 < Steffanx> CNC it?
2019-06-11T09:09:51 < jpa-> i'll just settle for the real thing
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2019-06-11T10:18:10 < sk_tandt> Greetings! I'm wrestling with an USART: HAL_UART_Receive_IT *does* save data to a buffer, but I can't trigger the interrupt
2019-06-11T10:18:46 < sk_tandt> (Nor USART2_IRQHandler, nor HAL_USART_RxCpltCallback)
2019-06-11T10:19:55 < dongs> something somehting enable NVIC trash somewehre in cube
2019-06-11T10:22:23 < sk_tandt> Mh, I've checked the NVIC cards in cube, they do seem to have USART2 interrupts enabled everywhere, and timer interrupts are working fine
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2019-06-11T10:27:13 < sk_tandt> Oh, and the TX interrupt for USART2 works as well
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2019-06-11T11:59:15 < sk_tandt> Ooc, anyone implemented Modbus for ST here?
2019-06-11T12:08:46 < PaulFertser> sk_tandt: master or slave?
2019-06-11T12:09:08 < sk_tandt> Slave
2019-06-11T12:09:42 < PaulFertser> sk_tandt: "freemodbus" works, search on github for the most active/sanest fork.
2019-06-11T12:10:42 < sk_tandt> I was following https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fhabr.com%2Fen%2Fpost%2F279747%2F , which seemed pretty decent, but no luck so far  : P Will try github 'tho, thanks
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2019-06-11T12:17:59 < PaulFertser> sk_tandt: in case you need to translate a bit from russian, I can help. Sometimes comments on habr.com are insightful. Sometimes not. I've used freemodbus on stm32, the experience was reasonable.
2019-06-11T12:19:43 < sk_tandt> Thanks! That's very kind of you : ) I'll try to wrestle with it a bit more, but I'll take the offer if desperation remains the only outcome of the serial console
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2019-06-11T14:58:55 < Thorn> esp audio libraries on github contain libhelix-aac and libhelix-mp3 from 2005 (by real networks). is it the latest version available and has anyone used it on stm32?
2019-06-11T15:06:53 < dongs> yes lol
2019-06-11T15:07:03 < dongs> ive built the hel;ix-aac on F405
2019-06-11T15:07:11 < dongs> and yea it is the latest
2019-06-11T15:07:17 < dongs> unless you wanna backport stuff from ffmpeg or etc
2019-06-11T15:08:29 < Thorn> do you remember by any chance how much sram does it need?
2019-06-11T15:10:20 < dongs> hmm i just did lowlevel bring up and looks like the dudes who added aac shit used crossworks
2019-06-11T15:10:24 < dongs> so i cant immediatel]y build it
2019-06-11T15:10:32 < dongs> ait theres a map file
2019-06-11T15:11:28 < dongs> hmm no idea gcc map is useless lol
2019-06-11T15:11:35 < dongs> but it was a F405
2019-06-11T15:11:49 < Thorn> anyway if it runs on 405 it can't be too bad
2019-06-11T15:11:50 < dongs> and it had a bunch of other shit plus aac-he decode (and HE needs even more ram)
2019-06-11T15:11:54 < dongs> so I think AAC-LC should be no problem
2019-06-11T15:11:54 < dongs> yeah
2019-06-11T15:12:29 < Thorn> does it support both he and lc?
2019-06-11T15:12:43 < dongs> the radio project it was in here only needed -HE
2019-06-11T15:12:50 < dongs> but since its a superset of LC, i guess enabling HE supports both?
2019-06-11T15:14:04 < Thorn> ok thanks
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2019-06-11T16:01:38 < qyx> quality software, no bugfix/feature added since 2005?
2019-06-11T16:02:44 < dongs> AAC is garbage so yeah
2019-06-11T16:05:56 < englishman> apple audio codec
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2019-06-11T16:26:35 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/eVWE1mu
2019-06-11T16:55:57 < sk_tandt> bitmask, tell me that comes from an MRI
2019-06-11T16:56:14 < bitmask> yea it does, not mine though
2019-06-11T16:56:40 < sk_tandt> Still extremely high on coolscale
2019-06-11T16:56:54 < bitmask> took 40 hours to print, gonna have to wait a few days before I do the second half
2019-06-11T16:57:08 < bitmask> then the base to light it up
2019-06-11T16:57:20 < Thorn> how much filament
2019-06-11T16:57:40 < bitmask> about 1/4 kg per half
2019-06-11T16:57:47 < Thorn> are you going to send it to Trump when you're done
2019-06-11T16:58:20 < bitmask> no, I want it to be used
2019-06-11T17:00:12 < Thorn> ok lol
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2019-06-11T17:34:29 < Thorn> are original T12 tips much better than the Chinese clones? https://www.ebay.com/itm/HAKKO-Japan-Soldering-Tip-1-6D-Z-T12D16Z-for-FM2027-FM2028-FX950-FX951-JAIP/233163965071
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2019-06-11T18:23:58 < dongs> lol
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2019-06-11T18:47:55 < jadew> Thorn, I don't have the original, but I have the chinese ones and they heat up fast
2019-06-11T18:48:05 < jadew> ~2-3 seconds to 330 C
2019-06-11T18:48:27 < jadew> so they may differ in other respects
2019-06-11T18:48:33 < Thorn> yeah I've got about 7 of them too. but they don't seem to have excellent wetting properties
2019-06-11T18:48:59 < Thorn> quite usable but not ideal
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2019-06-11T18:49:32 < jadew> you have to try not to leave the tip untinned
2019-06-11T18:50:26 < jadew> but I'd also like to know if the japanese ones last longer
2019-06-11T18:51:09 < Thorn> I haven't had any Chinese ones fail yet
2019-06-11T18:51:26 < Thorn> using them for about a year
2019-06-11T18:51:43 < jadew> well, if they stop getting wet, they're useless
2019-06-11T18:51:58 < jadew> it's a pain to work with a tip like that
2019-06-11T18:53:01 < jadew> I also have 7 on the way, 4 x d12 and 3 x d16
2019-06-11T18:53:32 < jadew> wasn't sure if the d12 they had was the same with the d12 I was used to
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2019-06-11T19:17:39 < boddax> hows the enlightened brain?
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2019-06-11T20:07:34 < aandrew> ok, some oof you may have some tricks for this
2019-06-11T20:07:51 < aandrew> I want to drive a VGA or HDMI signal with stm32. nothing fancy, maybe 320x240 or 640x480
2019-06-11T20:08:06 < rajkosto> use the RGB mode of the TFT controller
2019-06-11T20:08:16 < rajkosto> going to a hdmi encoder chip or shitty resistor network for vga
2019-06-11T20:08:30 < aandrew> aha, see. I haven't ever used that controller, that gives me a hint onw here to start looing
2019-06-11T20:08:33 < aandrew> thanks!
2019-06-11T20:08:46 < rajkosto> it just gives you 16bit RGB, HSYNC/VSYNC/DE pins
2019-06-11T20:08:52 < aandrew> yep that's all I need
2019-06-11T20:24:03 < aandrew> crazy you can buy a shitty 320x240, 400 lumen pico projector for $25
2019-06-11T20:24:29 < aandrew> and a native 1280x720p optical path one for $80
2019-06-11T20:26:22 < rajkosto> you can buy a 1440p phone display for the same price as a shitty 800x480 one
2019-06-11T20:26:28 < rajkosto> the problem is the 1440p one is MIPI-DSI
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2019-06-11T20:30:00 < aandrew> yep
2019-06-11T20:30:24 < aandrew> I don't want an LCD though for this, I want to project so it can be temporal
2019-06-11T20:30:49 < aandrew> just gotta mock up a "display" at 320x240 to see what it'd look like before I buy it
2019-06-11T20:30:59 < aandrew> having access to really cheap shit is great if you don't impulse buy :-)
2019-06-11T20:32:27 < aandrew> enlightened brain
2019-06-11T20:32:31 < aandrew> my god, I just got that boddax 
2019-06-11T20:33:49 < boddax> send me the stl so i make one for my head too :p
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2019-06-11T21:43:29 < catphish> morning
2019-06-11T21:45:16 < catphish> this timing diagram still scares me quite a lot: https://i.imgur.com/P0iErtC.png - is there a simple answer to how i read the DQ line? seemingly it's stable half way between the edges of the clock
2019-06-11T21:47:16 < catphish> this is not the channel in which i meant to ask that question
2019-06-11T21:47:17 < catphish> :)
2019-06-11T21:49:04 < mawk> it's better here
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2019-06-11T21:54:41 < catphish> perhaps, but it lacks context :)
2019-06-11T21:55:03 < catphish> i'm trying to read those data lines (which come from ddr3 ram) with my fpga :)
2019-06-11T21:57:29 < Cracki> do they have individual diagrams about this stuff
2019-06-11T21:57:50 < Cracki> maybe one that doesn't conflate electrical layer with semantics
2019-06-11T21:59:05 < Cracki> not sure what DQ first/last valid/no longer valid means, but it looks like you'll need to multiply that clock so you can sample between edges
2019-06-11T21:59:16 < Cracki> or use delay
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2019-06-11T22:01:22 < Cracki> same clock, but delayed, looks like it might work
2019-06-11T22:02:24 < aandrew> catphish: oh
2019-06-11T22:02:37 < aandrew> you usually have a PLL generating a phase-shifted clock to do this
2019-06-11T22:02:59 < aandrew> this is DDR from the looks of it
2019-06-11T22:03:06 < aandrew> so you phase shift 90 degrees and sample on rising and falling edges
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2019-06-11T22:57:33 < pwr_on1> hey so im using cubemx and the system workbench for stm32 and im trying to change the project to a C++ project
2019-06-11T22:58:14 < pwr_on1> is using the convert wizard the only thing i need to use?
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2019-06-11T22:59:55 < Cracki> does it work?
2019-06-11T23:06:05 < pwr_on1> so if i have a basic toggle program with hal function and convert it with the wizard, it works
2019-06-11T23:11:07 < pwr_on1> but if i create a class in a header file i get the unknown type name 'class' error
2019-06-11T23:12:09 < Thorn> is your source file .c or .cc/.cpp?
2019-06-11T23:12:37 < pwr_on1> cpp
2019-06-11T23:14:11 < pwr_on1> header: https://paste.ofcode.org/Xmgr3PrXaaLS89ms6wZmiR
2019-06-11T23:14:26 < pwr_on1> source: https://paste.ofcode.org/35GdD3syVqzuUwpCpGeRaTw
2019-06-11T23:15:58 < Ultrasauce> digging the mixed indentation
2019-06-11T23:18:40 < pwr_on1> so do i need to change every .c file to a .cpp file?
2019-06-11T23:19:01 < Thorn> if you want c++ your files should not be named .c
2019-06-11T23:19:15 < Cracki> I've seen mixing to work
2019-06-11T23:19:23 < Cracki> but it causes headaches
2019-06-11T23:19:55 < Cracki> besides, renaming is superficiality. C has features that C++ doesn't.
2019-06-11T23:20:07 < Cracki> so compiling C as C++ can fail.
2019-06-11T23:20:26 < Cracki> mixing meaning compile C files and C++ files and link them together
2019-06-11T23:21:33 < pwr_on1> which IDE do you guys use?
2019-06-11T23:22:06 < specing> pwr_on1: GPS
2019-06-11T23:22:11 < Cracki> truestudio for the current project, since one attempt to open/import it in cubeIDE failed
2019-06-11T23:22:46 < Cracki> it's just rebranding anyway
2019-06-11T23:23:42 < pwr_on1> yeah the website says is replaced by stm32cubeide
2019-06-11T23:24:10 < pwr_on1> so do you programm using c++?
2019-06-11T23:25:20 < pwr_on1> its been really hard setting up the ide, starting to think im doing something wrong
2019-06-11T23:26:31 < Cracki> which one
2019-06-11T23:26:44 < pwr_on1> system workbench for stm32
2019-06-11T23:26:46 < Cracki> with truestudio there's no setup. cubemx to generate the project, then open it.
2019-06-11T23:26:48 < Cracki> oh that
2019-06-11T23:26:56 < pwr_on1> http://www.openstm32.org/HomePage
2019-06-11T23:27:01 < Cracki> who uses that anymore
2019-06-11T23:27:17 < pwr_on1> me because the internet pointed to it
2019-06-11T23:27:19 < Cracki> "open" doesn't mean open. it means some company thought it sounded nice.
2019-06-11T23:27:59 < pwr_on1> so you recomend truestudio then i guess
2019-06-11T23:28:13 < Cracki> if you're a beginner and you want to experience success, just go with cubeIDE
2019-06-11T23:28:34 < Cracki> if that doesn't work, I'd fall back on standalone cubemx and truestudio
2019-06-11T23:28:43 < Cracki> (the latest before they bought it)
2019-06-11T23:29:49 < pwr_on1> so does the conversion from c to c++ work in truestudio?
2019-06-11T23:29:54 < Cracki> no idea
2019-06-11T23:29:58 < Cracki> I think it doesn't care
2019-06-11T23:30:13 < Cracki> I can plonk .c or .cpp files in it and it just compiles them
2019-06-11T23:30:22 < pwr_on1> lol ok
2019-06-11T23:30:46 < Cracki> it did bitch about not finding some definitions it should have found in some header, but that might be because using C from C++ requires *the right* headers
2019-06-11T23:30:52 < Cracki> something about "extern C" I think
2019-06-11T23:31:22 < Cracki> https://isocpp.org/wiki/faq/mixing-c-and-cpp
2019-06-11T23:31:37 < pwr_on1> thanks
2019-06-11T23:32:39 < Cracki> that'll also apply to using HAL/LL in your C++ project... I would assume that the HAL/LL headers already contain the proper ifdefs that switch in the right magic depending on how they're compiled
2019-06-11T23:33:17 < Cracki> that's the section saying #ifdef __cplusplus
2019-06-11T23:34:00 < pwr_on1> yeah they're there
2019-06-11T23:34:04 < Cracki> for my current project I might try C++. I hear people even use C++ (because of neat template magic) on stm8 and avr
2019-06-11T23:35:15 < specing> > neat template magic
2019-06-11T23:35:17 < specing> pick two
2019-06-11T23:35:37 < pwr_on1> thats interesting i changed main.c to main.cpp and i built without errors
2019-06-11T23:36:14 < pwr_on1> so eclipse automatically chooses whatever is needed in order to complie
2019-06-11T23:36:15 < Cracki> trouble with C++ is that C++ and libraries more often assume the existence of a heap. if you have 1K of sram instead of 100, that... is doable but tricky
2019-06-11T23:37:32 < specing> I don't think you get any dynamic structures on AVR/cortex-m targets
2019-06-11T23:37:46 < specing> do you get any? I don't remember having any when I worked with C++ on those two in the past
2019-06-11T23:39:18 < Cracki> https://tty.uchuujin.de/2016/04/stm32-from-scratch-heap/
2019-06-11T23:41:47 < pwr_on1> ok so its working now
2019-06-11T23:42:00 < pwr_on1> only had to change the main.c to main.cpp
2019-06-11T23:43:05 < Cracki> I've read about the superstition that a C main is "void". that's incorrect. afaik C expects it to be returning int as well
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2019-06-11T23:45:01 < Cracki> also, in C, an empty parameter list should be "(void)" because just "()" means to use whatever prototype was given before, or use last-century magic depending on call site
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2019-06-11T23:46:28 < specing> afaik afaik afaik
2019-06-11T23:46:42 < specing> nobody knowns and C doesen't care, because C is C after all
2019-06-11T23:48:24 < PaulFertser> Using (void) instead of () is nice when you want your compiler to catch silly errors. C doesn't care but C can help you if you let it.
2019-06-11T23:48:45 < rajkosto> well in the old C standard () meant undefined amount of arguments
2019-06-11T23:48:47 < Cracki> I would hope that people want their tools to do things :P
2019-06-11T23:48:48 < rajkosto> (void) means 0 arguments
2019-06-11T23:48:58 < Cracki> exactly
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2019-06-11T23:57:46 < zyp> Cracki, I don't run a heap in any of my embedded C++ stuff
2019-06-11T23:58:01 < Cracki> I would avoid it too
2019-06-11T23:58:37 < zyp> I've considered starting to though
--- Day changed Wed Jun 12 2019
2019-06-12T00:00:24 < zyp> modern RAII stuff make memory management easy and sometimes dynamic memory allocation could simplify stuff a lot
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2019-06-12T02:46:11 < Laurenceb> M I C R O C H I M E R I S M
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2019-06-12T02:52:31 < s34n_> what is T1C1N? how is it different from T1C1?
2019-06-12T02:57:44 < sync> it's the same but inverted
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2019-06-12T03:14:54 < Laurenceb> speak for yourself
2019-06-12T03:16:21 < emeb_mac> for yourself!
2019-06-12T03:19:19 < s34n_> sync: what does inverted mean with respect to a timer?
2019-06-12T03:20:57 < aandrew> decrementing? output is active low? need context
2019-06-12T03:21:30 < aandrew> s34n_: T1C1 = compare output = goes high when timer value matches
2019-06-12T03:21:43 < aandrew> s34n_: T1C1N = compare output (negated) = goes low when timer value matches
2019-06-12T03:21:55 < aandrew> use them together for H-bridge drivers, for example
2019-06-12T03:22:38 < s34n_> thanks
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2019-06-12T03:24:00 < s34n_> preface: I've never done embedded before. I'm cutting my teeth on an STM32F103
2019-06-12T03:24:15 < s34n_> I want to take readings from an encoder
2019-06-12T03:25:38 < s34n_> My understanding is that I can connect the encoder's two channels to timing inputs and they will do the quadrature stuff for me
2019-06-12T03:26:26 < s34n_> from my reading, TI1-5 and TI8 can all do encoder mode
2019-06-12T03:28:39 < aandrew> ah, yes that is a mode IIRC. STM has some good presentations/demos which explain the different modes
2019-06-12T03:30:44 < s34n_> aandrew: I'm working from the ref manual and from various snippets I can google
2019-06-12T03:31:22 < s34n_> for instance, here is somebody doing it various ways: https://embeddedsystemengineering.blogspot.com/2016/07/arm-cortex-m3-stm32f103-tutorial.html
2019-06-12T03:32:14 < s34n_> It seems that you can choose to count one edge, two edges, or all four edges
2019-06-12T03:39:58 < s34n_> I need to understand APB1 and APB2. These are two  different buses?
2019-06-12T03:44:52 < specing> just turn all busses on in init code and forget about it
2019-06-12T03:47:47 < Thorn> I reduced my current consumption from 10 mA to 2 mA
2019-06-12T03:48:07 < Thorn> now the hard part
2019-06-12T03:49:28 < jadew`> turning it back on?
2019-06-12T03:49:53 < s34n_> specing: I'm trying to understand what the buses are and how they work
2019-06-12T03:52:00 < s34n_> For instance, APB1 seems to connect to TIM4, while APB2 connects to GPIOB
2019-06-12T03:52:26 < s34n_> pins PB6,7 connect to TIM4
2019-06-12T03:54:13 < s34n_> so I control PB6,7 through GPIOB over APB2? But they connect to TIM4 over APB1?
2019-06-12T03:55:09 < aandrew> there is very little reason to worry about which bus your peripheral is connected to at this stage
2019-06-12T03:55:29 < aandrew> when you get into DMA or trying to tune performance it starts to be important though
2019-06-12T03:55:55 < s34n_> I'm just reading through code snippets, trying to understand them
2019-06-12T03:56:02 < s34n_> I'm currently reading https://embeddedsystemengineering.blogspot.com/2016/07/arm-cortex-m3-stm32f103-tutorial.html
2019-06-12T03:56:20 < s34n_> The last code sample before the comments
2019-06-12T03:56:46 < s34n_> to initialize the encoder, that code is using APB1 and APB2
2019-06-12T03:56:59 < fenugrec> s34n_, the main reason to worry about APBx is for enabling peripheral clocks
2019-06-12T03:57:30 < aandrew> or if you're like me, the first thing you do in your main.c is turn on all clocks :-)
2019-06-12T03:57:33 < fenugrec> see the "RCC" chapter of your RM, "APB peripheral clock enable register X"
2019-06-12T03:57:58 < fenugrec> yeah, the sledgehammer always works
2019-06-12T03:59:48 < s34n_> Did I mention that I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing?
2019-06-12T04:01:12 < s34n_> I'm just trying to understand 10 lines of code
2019-06-12T04:01:12 < aandrew> there is no shame nor issue with newbies
2019-06-12T04:01:37 < aandrew> everyone starts somewhere and as a general rule we're happy to help those who are trying to help themselves
2019-06-12T04:01:49 < aandrew> it's amazing how much can be tucked away in such a small snippet 
2019-06-12T04:04:15 < s34n_> I can't just blindly copy/paste it, because I'm trying to use a different language
2019-06-12T04:04:27 < s34n_> So I need to understand what is happening and why
2019-06-12T04:04:58 < Thorn> s34n_: bad idea. learn one thing at a time. you can translate it into rust later
2019-06-12T04:05:18 < Thorn> (if you still want it at that stage lol)
2019-06-12T04:05:37 < s34n_> :)
2019-06-12T04:06:12 < s34n_> I still want to understand what it is doing and why
2019-06-12T04:06:17 < Thorn> (you already have way more than one thing to learn at the same time already)
2019-06-12T04:06:40 < s34n_> understood
2019-06-12T04:06:58 < s34n_> still...
2019-06-12T04:07:35 < s34n_> this is part of learning those things
2019-06-12T04:09:12 < fenugrec> s34n_, at least go to section 7.2 of your RM. look at the clock tree
2019-06-12T04:10:48 < s34n_> fenugrec: k
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2019-06-12T04:13:30 < fenugrec> every peripheral gets its clock source from somewhere in there, hence the need to enable each one you need, or like andrew says, just enable everything
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2019-06-12T04:17:02 < s34n_> fenugrec: in my case, I think the encoder is the clock source. Is that right?
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2019-06-12T04:18:25 < fenugrec> no
2019-06-12T04:18:37 < fenugrec> I mean the actual clock that makes the peripheral function
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2019-06-12T04:19:09 < fenugrec> the entire GPIO block needs a clock, so does TIM1,2,3, etc
2019-06-12T04:20:56 < fenugrec> actually, GPIO clocks are split per "group", i.e. GPIOA,B,C etc
2019-06-12T04:22:03 < mawk> yes but only two groups often
2019-06-12T04:22:08 < mawk> GPIOA B C together,e tc
2019-06-12T04:22:21 < fenugrec> think of it as "peripheral enable"
2019-06-12T04:23:38 < fenugrec> ah, never noticed that - but in any case, the RM will be the definite reference
2019-06-12T04:24:05 < mawk> I mean for the clock freq itself, I didn't know you were talking of peripheral enabling
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2019-06-12T04:24:14 < mawk> some GPIOs are grouped in APB1, some in APB2, etc
2019-06-12T04:24:52 < fenugrec> s34n_, speaking of RMs, at this point you should go over a few chapters... clocks, GPIO, timer
2019-06-12T04:25:54 < s34n_> fenugrec: I've been reading it
2019-06-12T04:26:08 < s34n_> I haven't read all 1096 pages
2019-06-12T04:26:21 < s34n_> and I haven't understood much of what I have read
2019-06-12T04:26:37 < s34n_> but I'm piecing it bit by bit
2019-06-12T04:27:51 < fenugrec> that's the spirit
2019-06-12T04:28:46 < s34n_> I get now that the encoder is not the clock, but the GPIO pins connected to the encoder and checked each clock cycle to drive the timer
2019-06-12T04:29:35 < s34n_> I'm not sure why the timers need another clock of their own
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2019-06-12T04:35:28 < s34n_> I'm using a bluepill, so I think only 4 timers are exposed to GPIO
2019-06-12T04:36:02 < s34n_> and all can be exposed on GPIOB
2019-06-12T04:36:48 < s34n_> so I need to connect GPIOB to a clock
2019-06-12T04:37:57 < s34n_> Is that what ENABLE does?
2019-06-12T04:38:54 < s34n_> If so, does it default to an internal clock?
2019-06-12T04:40:01  * s34n_ has to run, bbl
2019-06-12T04:40:03 < mawk> the real underlying clock used for gpio is fixed
2019-06-12T04:40:18 < mawk> check datasheet, but it's either the APB1 clock or the APB2 clock
2019-06-12T04:40:20 < s34n_> thanks for everybody's patience
2019-06-12T04:40:24 < mawk> either way I guess they're 80MHz
2019-06-12T04:40:42 < s34n_> APB2 is 72MHz
2019-06-12T04:40:45 < mawk> on bluepill ?
2019-06-12T04:40:48 < s34n_> APB1 is 36
2019-06-12T04:40:54 < mawk> you have stm32f103c8t6 right ?
2019-06-12T04:40:57 < s34n_> according to RM
2019-06-12T04:41:08 < mawk> don't you used the wrong RM ?
2019-06-12T04:41:11 < s34n_> RM of STM32F103
2019-06-12T04:41:16 < mawk> or I remember it very wrong
2019-06-12T04:41:34 < s34n_> I'll re-read when I get back
2019-06-12T04:41:50 < mawk> 72 MHz and 36 MHz are two possible values I guess, but you can put the max which should be 80
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2019-06-12T04:51:43 < fenugrec> yeah, F103 is max 72MHz
2019-06-12T04:52:24 < fenugrec> on AHB & APB2. APB1=36M
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2019-06-12T05:15:59 < Cracki> today I found https://www.zofzpcb.com/
2019-06-12T05:25:19 < aandrew> heh
2019-06-12T05:25:40 < aandrew> I had bought a couple "boxer robot" toys from amazon for the boys. they were a great deal ($17) 
2019-06-12T05:26:03 < aandrew> took the one apart today just to poke around. three COB blobs and a shitload of IR sensors, not bad construction
2019-06-12T05:26:15 < aandrew> everything (all pins between boards) are labelled
2019-06-12T05:26:30 < aandrew> also noticed a familiar 5 pin interface: VCC / DAT / CLK / RESET / GND
2019-06-12T05:26:44 < aandrew> wired it up to the j-link and it does appear to be a cortex m0 of some descripton
2019-06-12T05:26:55 < aandrew> claims it's protected but I was able to read from 0x0
2019-06-12T05:27:01 < aandrew> but no real way to identify the chip yet
2019-06-12T05:27:35 < aandrew> https://pastebin.com/REdK6XaD
2019-06-12T05:28:33 < aandrew> was gonna buy a few more so I could tinker with them but they're $67 now, no way
2019-06-12T05:32:10 < aandrew> there's an 64mbit 8-pin SOIC QSPI NOR Flash in it
2019-06-12T05:32:13 < aandrew> bet it's all XIP
2019-06-12T05:33:46 < aandrew> I could probably dump the code out of that, the COB blob probably has no flash
2019-06-12T05:34:30 < aandrew> one of the other devices in there must be some kind of 2.4ghz ble chip since there are ios/android apps for this
2019-06-12T05:41:55 < s34n_> So, does `RCC_APB2PeriphClockCmd(RCC_APB2Periph_GPIOB, ENABLE);` connect GPIOB to a clock?
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2019-06-12T05:46:59 < Cracki> dumping spi flash can be done noninvasively. sniff the bus while it's running, capture all the reads.
2019-06-12T05:47:15 < Cracki> s34n_, pretty much, yes
2019-06-12T05:49:53 < s34n_> GPIO_InitStruct.GPIO_Speed = GPIO_Speed_2MHz; // sets the clock speed?
2019-06-12T05:50:02 < aandrew> Cracki: yes, but why not just hold the CPU in reset and suck it all out at once if it's accessible
2019-06-12T05:50:21 < Cracki> if it works, sure :P
2019-06-12T05:50:25 < aandrew> s34n_: it's less about "connecting a clock to a peripheral" as it is "enabling the clock for a peripheral"
2019-06-12T05:50:39 < aandrew> clock routing isn't that flexible on stm32
2019-06-12T05:50:46 < aandrew> in fact I'd say clock routing isn't flexible on stm32
2019-06-12T05:51:17 < Cracki> very treeish with some muxes
2019-06-12T06:04:56 < Cracki> dude builds a bridge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtFl5iJ7eVk
2019-06-12T06:05:33 < fenugrec_> s34n_, GPIO_Speed refers to how hard the output pins will be driven
2019-06-12T06:06:22 < s34n_> fenugrec_: I don't know what that means.
2019-06-12T06:08:17 < mawk> Steffanx: do you know the company Abel Sensors in NLland ?
2019-06-12T06:08:49 < mawk> they want junior embedded software engineer and they request everything I know how to do, and it's in the city I want
2019-06-12T06:09:39 < bitmask> https://sc02.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1ffNUHFXXXXaSXpXXq6xXFXXXX/steel-casting-water-pump-fan-motor-impeller.jpg
2019-06-12T06:10:06 < bitmask> what are the pros/cons of the one in the center and the one in the middle left
2019-06-12T06:13:40 < dongs> the fuck am i even looking at
2019-06-12T06:13:59 < dongs> chinesium gears
2019-06-12T06:17:16 < Thorn> impellers probably
2019-06-12T06:17:30 < Thorn> I need a bench multimeter
2019-06-12T06:17:41 < aandrew> s34n_: moar current = moar faster I/O changing from 1 to 0 or vice-versa
2019-06-12T06:17:43 < fenugrec_> s34n_, it changes the rise/fall times of the GPIO pin(s)
2019-06-12T06:17:58 < fenugrec_> what aandrew said ^
2019-06-12T06:18:11 < aandrew> moar current also means moar power consumption, more EMI/RFI adnd potential for more reflections/SI issues
2019-06-12T06:19:10 < fenugrec_> "how fast" is in the datasheet - I/O AC characterists, not the RM
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2019-06-12T06:21:13 < aandrew> setting up a GPIO means configuring what the pin does (is it connected to an internal peripheral like UART/SPI/etc.), how it can drive the pin (open drain, push/pull, etc.), if there are any internal pullup/pulldowns connected, and how "hard" it can drive the pin
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2019-06-12T06:24:06 < aandrew> there's usually also an option for triggerring an interrupt if it changes state
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2019-06-12T06:25:14 < dongs> get triggered
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2019-06-12T06:36:41 < aandrew> that's quite the bridge video Cracki 
2019-06-12T06:36:43 < aandrew> thanks for that
2019-06-12T06:37:07 < Cracki> fuck broadcast TV, those youtubers make some very nice content
2019-06-12T06:37:13 < aandrew> yeo
2019-06-12T06:37:14 < aandrew> yep
2019-06-12T06:37:43 < Cracki> amazing how he appears to "wing" it but it comes out very very well
2019-06-12T06:39:33 < Cracki> originally found him through welding videos. he had an excavator with fucked up blade and the repair was the analogue to breaking an abscess, so much dirt got inside the hollow blade
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2019-06-12T09:25:42 < jadew`> https://i.imgur.com/zXBlkJH.gifv
2019-06-12T09:26:31 < jpa-> that went better than most of my projects
2019-06-12T09:26:58 < jadew`> heh
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2019-06-12T11:18:49 < Steffanx> Wlcm jly
2019-06-12T11:23:16 < jly> do you know
2019-06-12T11:23:25 < dongs> pump
2019-06-12T11:23:34 < jly> oh fancy seeing you
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2019-06-12T11:44:32 < jadew`> anyone got one of those $50 VNAs?
2019-06-12T11:47:03 < jly> where
2019-06-12T11:47:13 < dongs> i think zyp has a $500 one
2019-06-12T11:47:19 < jadew`> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HF-VHF-UHF-UV-VNA-Vector-Network-Analyzer-Antenna-Analyzer-2-8-LCD-Battery-YY/254253727598
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2019-06-12T11:47:44 < jadew`> dongs, yeah, I know that one, but I'm wondering what these can do
2019-06-12T11:48:09 < dongs> looks pro af
2019-06-12T11:48:12 < dongs> i bet chinagirl can get it chaeper
2019-06-12T11:48:23 < dongs> since this shit is coming from chinkland
2019-06-12T11:48:39 < jadew`> yeah, they look bad and they probably perform like that too, but still.. $50
2019-06-12T11:49:47 < jadew`> I wonder if they're the same like those 5 MHz scopes you can get for $20, or if they're actually able to get some real data out
2019-06-12T11:50:14 < jadew`> the theory is simple and it should be doable, even in that form factor
2019-06-12T11:50:32 < jadew`> especially since it's low frequency
2019-06-12T11:51:04 < dongs> USB interface: USB type-C ???
2019-06-12T11:51:04 < dongs> really
2019-06-12T11:51:57 < jadew`> what kind of margin could they have?
2019-06-12T11:52:22 < dongs> wow it is type C
2019-06-12T11:52:23 < dongs> thats neat
2019-06-12T11:52:31 < dongs> i guess i should use type C on my next usb2 product as well
2019-06-12T11:52:42 < dongs> cablesa re prolly cheap enough now over micro
2019-06-12T11:52:44 < dongs> the socket is definitely cheap
2019-06-12T11:52:47 < zyp> looks cute, but only up to 300 MHz is a bit limiting
2019-06-12T11:53:01 < jadew`> zyp, they're saying it can do 900 MHz too
2019-06-12T11:53:05 < dongs> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183843651899?
2019-06-12T11:53:07 < dongs> jadew`: using harmonics
2019-06-12T11:53:13 < dongs> the chip is only up to 300m
2019-06-12T11:53:35 < zyp> would have worked to tune my NFC antenna, but not really useful for so much else, unless you're into ham radio, I guess
2019-06-12T11:53:35 < jadew`> ah, then it's going to be shit, because there's no way they're using them properly
2019-06-12T11:53:59 < zyp> considering most other radio shit is gonna be 2.4G
2019-06-12T11:54:02 < jadew`> zyp, I think that's their target
2019-06-12T11:54:13 < dongs> yes hamfags
2019-06-12T11:54:46 < zyp> sure, but I'm more interested in usefulness to me :)
2019-06-12T11:54:50 < dongs> i really like this chinese way of using PCB as enclosure tho
2019-06-12T11:54:54 < dongs> the USB pwoer meters were similar setup
2019-06-12T11:54:58 < dongs> looks really cool
2019-06-12T11:55:04 < dongs> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/wS0AAOSwV79c~b80/s-l1600.jpg
2019-06-12T11:55:31 < jadew`> dongs, looks ok, but not much of an enclosure
2019-06-12T11:55:44 < jadew`> you spill some coffee next to it, it will get in
2019-06-12T11:55:49 < dongs> well yeah
2019-06-12T11:56:09 < zyp> is there any circuitry on the top/bottom boards at all?
2019-06-12T11:56:15 < dongs> no
2019-06-12T11:56:18 < dongs> they're just enclosures
2019-06-12T11:56:24 < dongs> cutout for rf shield and screen
2019-06-12T11:56:28 < zyp> so are the boards still actually etched? seems wasteful :p
2019-06-12T11:56:50 < jadew`> maybe they leave the copper on
2019-06-12T11:57:04 < dongs> copper is on usually
2019-06-12T11:57:18 < jadew`> for extra weight, since weight = quality
2019-06-12T11:57:20 < dongs> they just use mask to highlight stuff or write text etc
2019-06-12T11:58:42 < zyp> anyway, I might have picked up that when I were dicking around with my NFC stuff, before I got the other
2019-06-12T11:58:45 < zyp> since it's cheaper
2019-06-12T11:59:10 < jadew`> zyp, how stable are your measurements with the one you have?
2019-06-12T11:59:32 < zyp> dunno, I managed to figure out how many capacitors to stack and that's what matters
2019-06-12T11:59:50 < zyp> nfc shit works and that's all I care about
2019-06-12T11:59:58 < zyp> speaking of nfc shit
2019-06-12T12:00:06 < zyp> dongs, I might wanna do another batch of them soon
2019-06-12T12:01:59 < zyp> last time it was done on a 2+1 panel with this other shit, this time I don't think I need the other shit
2019-06-12T12:02:35 < zyp> what's gonna be cheaper? redo the panel layout or make the same panel with unpopulated other shit?
2019-06-12T12:06:22 < dongs> pcb-wise?
2019-06-12T12:06:28 < dongs> prolly about same if it makes it smaller
2019-06-12T12:11:15 < zyp> I figure the third board could be replaced with a third nfc reader
2019-06-12T12:12:08 < zyp> but if you still have the old stencil, the cost of a new one might eat up any savings from that
2019-06-12T12:12:32 < dongs> right, but if array is just kept same minus 3rd thing wahtever it was (i dont remember?) then it should be easier
2019-06-12T12:13:16 < zyp> third thing was that usb to jvs adapter
2019-06-12T12:18:12 < dongs> if it fits its fine
2019-06-12T12:37:34 < jadew`> coaxial connectors are a freaking rip-off
2019-06-12T12:39:33 < jadew`> I'm making something that I was planning to sell for ~$120, but the connectors alone cost me $40 :/
2019-06-12T12:39:55 < jadew`> then there's a custom enclosure, then the components, my labor... I'm gonna lose money on this
2019-06-12T12:44:43 < dongs> uh
2019-06-12T12:44:46 < dongs> then you chose wrong connectors
2019-06-12T12:44:52 < dongs> or you didnt buy them from china
2019-06-12T12:45:06 < jadew`> yeah, not from china, they have to be good
2019-06-12T12:45:09 < dongs> I'm currently preparing to sell a thing with BOM cost of around $25 for $1200
2019-06-12T12:45:17 < dongs> thats how you roll
2019-06-12T12:45:21 < jadew`> nice
2019-06-12T12:45:28 < jadew`> you have to teach me how to do that
2019-06-12T12:49:29 < jadew`> that thing I sent to you: 0 sales so far and by the looks of the ebay stats, 0 interest too
2019-06-12T12:50:00 < jadew`> the views/watcher ratio is infinite
2019-06-12T12:50:48 < jadew`> which means those who view it, wouldn't pay that much for it
2019-06-12T12:51:35 < sync> always
2019-06-12T12:52:04 < jadew`> sync, heh
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2019-06-12T13:23:40 < dongs> hm,
2019-06-12T13:23:46 < dongs> i need to figure out how to i2c slave on F0
2019-06-12T13:23:52 < dongs> i don't even know where to start
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2019-06-12T13:36:45 < dongs> stm32f0xx_i2c_cpal.c
2019-06-12T13:36:48 < dongs> 85 kilobytes
2019-06-12T13:36:50 < dongs> holy fucking shit.
2019-06-12T13:52:48 < dongs> is telegram slow for everyone else
2019-06-12T13:52:56 < dongs> i keep getting 'connecting'.. for a while
2019-06-12T13:53:38 < rajkosto> > using telegram
2019-06-12T13:55:23 < zyp> hmm, fucking shit
2019-06-12T13:56:04 < zyp> I've been meaning to buy a new printer, the thing I want is apparently on a discount today
2019-06-12T13:56:14 < zyp> costs 2k NOK now, usually 3k
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2019-06-12T13:56:29 < zyp> and then fuckers want 800 NOK for shipping
2019-06-12T13:57:26 < zyp> apparently the box is 36kg
2019-06-12T13:57:46 < dongs> printer?
2019-06-12T13:57:49 < qyx> 10nok is 1e?
2019-06-12T13:57:56 < dongs> the fuck are you buying thats 36kg
2019-06-12T13:57:59 < zyp> qyx, roughly
2019-06-12T13:58:08 < dongs> is it one of those huge floor-style copier/fax/printer shits
2019-06-12T13:58:09 < zyp> dongs, looking at xerox 6515
2019-06-12T13:58:14 < qyx> is it a multi million pages per second laser type?
2019-06-12T13:58:20 < zyp> not floor style, but yeah
2019-06-12T13:58:47 < dongs> color, huh no shit
2019-06-12T13:58:50 < dongs> but that does NOT look 36kg
2019-06-12T13:58:52 < dongs> the fuck
2019-06-12T13:59:12 < zyp> well, it's 30kg in itself, box weights 36kg
2019-06-12T13:59:28 < dongs> whats the actaul DPI?
2019-06-12T13:59:34 < dongs> 1200x2400 sounds like troll shit
2019-06-12T13:59:44 < zyp> idk, I don't really care
2019-06-12T14:00:22 < dongs> i have a canon LBP6030W (or 40W, i donno), its B&W but wroks fine
2019-06-12T14:00:30 < dongs> ah this shit has a scanner too huh
2019-06-12T14:00:33 < dongs> wel, that price is not bad
2019-06-12T14:00:35 < dongs> go pick it up
2019-06-12T14:01:00 < zyp> I have a hp clj 1600 that's like 11-12 years now
2019-06-12T14:01:07 < dongs> Xerox® Embedded Web Server
2019-06-12T14:01:08 < dongs> The WorkCentre 6515 Color Multifunction Printer also includes an embedded web server that allows employees and IT personnel to perform detailed status checks on the system and consumables, administer system settings, and manage access controls via any standard web browser.
2019-06-12T14:01:12 < dongs> ESP14/88 detected
2019-06-12T14:03:27 < zyp> the hp has been a decent enough printer, but it's making stripes on the prints now, and the drivers are dumb
2019-06-12T14:03:34 < zyp> and also no network, only usb
2019-06-12T14:04:39 < zyp> so I want a new color laser thing with network support, and I don't want the kind that does one pass for each color because they are ridiculously slow
2019-06-12T14:05:56 < zyp> and I also want a scanner, and not the retarded kind you have to dick around with to get something usable out of, something that can just email you a pdf is good
2019-06-12T14:06:11 < zyp> that thing is reasonably priced and fits all those points
2019-06-12T14:06:30 < zyp> only thing it doesn't do is A3 prints, and I'm not looking for an A3 printer
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2019-06-12T14:12:48 < Steffanx> No you're not :P
2019-06-12T14:18:00 < zyp> yeah, fuck it, ordered
2019-06-12T14:19:08 < boddax> I want buy porsche 930 3.3 turbo (widow maker) 1985 no body has for sale? 
2019-06-12T14:23:24 < Steffanx> 130k euro boddax 
2019-06-12T14:23:41 < Steffanx> Oh 1985
2019-06-12T14:27:03 < boddax> what?? you are expensic Steffanx!
2019-06-12T14:39:22 < Steffanx> It's a good price.
2019-06-12T14:42:12 < boddax> 100k ..share pics of your 930 STF32
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2019-06-12T14:45:01 < Steffanx> Lol I wish I had such car (to sell it), boddax 
2019-06-12T15:00:55 < karlp> hrmm, can I buy a dummy / programmable brake system for a three phase motor?
2019-06-12T15:02:35 < karlp> want a dummy load for three phase delta wiring, but don't want to buy a 20-100kW thing like all these: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/dummy-load-3-phase.html
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2019-06-12T15:16:48 < sync> I kinda have the same issue karlp
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2019-06-12T15:51:59 < Thorn> RADARSAT Constellation Mission T - 85 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A2nJd9Urk8
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2019-06-12T17:04:45 < Thorn> stream is live
2019-06-12T17:06:03 < Cracki> looks foggy
2019-06-12T17:09:56 < Cracki> engine & chill
2019-06-12T17:12:06 < Thorn> why is fog not a constraint? if it goes bang on liftoff they would want the video, wouldn't they
2019-06-12T17:20:08 < rmaw> anyone does do these arduinos have a hardware bootloader on the atmega to program over a usb serial port directly with their ide ?
2019-06-12T17:20:28 < rmaw> or do they need some kind of software bootloader installed
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2019-06-12T17:26:38 < Cracki> rmaw, "these arduinos"?
2019-06-12T17:27:42 < Cracki> the a. uno has a main atmega and one dedicated to doing usb-for-programming, so it maybe implements their ISP protocol
2019-06-12T17:28:19 < Cracki> or maybe it does use a bootloader and the aux chip only does usb-serial
2019-06-12T17:28:51 < Cracki> the a. nano has a usb-uart chip as well, but that's ftdi/other, and again a bootloader
2019-06-12T17:29:35 < Cracki> people who integrate arduino support in their ide often do it as a "tool/command" and that just executes avrdude
2019-06-12T17:30:00 < Cracki> avrdude then speaks stk500v2 or similar protocol on the virtual com port
2019-06-12T17:30:28 < Cracki> arduinos always come with a bootloader. those atmegas don't have a rom bootloader like stm32 do.
2019-06-12T17:31:27 < Cracki> "proper" atmel programming is done with an in-system programmer dongle, or with an actual debugger
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2019-06-12T17:43:15 < dongs> of coruse theres a bootloader in retarduinos
2019-06-12T17:43:20 < dongs> 12:51 < Thorn> RADARSAT Constellation Mission T - 85 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A2nJd9Urk8
2019-06-12T17:43:23 < dongs> er
2019-06-12T17:43:55 < Cracki> very routine, as always
2019-06-12T17:46:06 < Cracki> say, anyone know of stm32 with ROM bootloader that does crypto?
2019-06-12T17:46:14 < dongs> waht crypto
2019-06-12T17:46:21 < dongs> you mean encrypted updates? no
2019-06-12T17:46:25 < dongs> just write your own, lazy cunt
2019-06-12T17:46:31 < Cracki> *cries*
2019-06-12T17:46:55 < Thorn> new dual-core h7 will apparently support encrypted firmware update
2019-06-12T17:47:27 < Cracki> boss won't spring for that, I think
2019-06-12T17:47:33 < Cracki> but good to know
2019-06-12T17:47:38 < Thorn> even with some kind of counters so that you can't install the update more than N times (not sure how that can work)
2019-06-12T17:48:34 < Cracki> maybe it blows a row of fuses or they keep count in some eeprom you can't touch
2019-06-12T17:48:42 < Cracki> curious feature anyway
2019-06-12T17:48:52 < zyp> sounds similar to the stm32wb mechanisms
2019-06-12T17:49:50 < zyp> Cracki, why does it need to be a rom bootloader?
2019-06-12T17:50:35 < dongs> just write your own shit
2019-06-12T17:50:40 < zyp> yeah
2019-06-12T17:50:46 < dongs> how would you guarnatee rom crypto bootloader security anyway?
2019-06-12T17:50:51 < dongs> you'd need your own key set somewehre somehow
2019-06-12T17:51:02 < dongs> i guess you could write it in option bytes or osmething before locking?
2019-06-12T17:51:40 < zyp> well, stm32wb stores secret stuff in the part of the flash only CPU2 gets access to
2019-06-12T17:52:04 < zyp> and you don't get to run your own code on CPU2
2019-06-12T17:54:09 < Thorn> so like a builtin smartcard?
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2019-06-12T18:05:07 < englishman> boddax where you gonna find an original 930 worth buying
2019-06-12T18:06:30 < boddax> still many for sale but the price very high , dunno when was new '80 era maybe half value than now
2019-06-12T18:07:21 < boddax> from 70k euro to up , too much nice car there no electronic things everything analogic
2019-06-12T18:08:25 < boddax> i have drive for a minutes years ago real fun and dangerous enough
2019-06-12T18:09:57 < englishman> looks like they are around the same price
2019-06-12T18:10:05 < englishman> 25k GBP starting price in 1985
2019-06-12T18:10:13 < englishman> or 75k GBP now
2019-06-12T18:10:22 < karlp> good business having dedicated fanbois
2019-06-12T18:10:37 < englishman> well they also make like <20k of them
2019-06-12T18:10:40 < englishman> over 10y
2019-06-12T18:11:01 < englishman> and they are nice. plus maintenance over 30 years is an easy 200k
2019-06-12T18:11:20 < sync> oh wow, they must be super draggy
2019-06-12T18:11:30 < sync> only 260kmh topspeed from 330hp
2019-06-12T18:11:36 < englishman> slantnose was a 20k GBP option
2019-06-12T18:13:13 < boddax> well speed doesnt matter
2019-06-12T18:13:34 < boddax> where you go that fast police not happy with that 
2019-06-12T18:15:32 < Thorn> stream resumed
2019-06-12T18:15:32 < zyp> sync laughs in german
2019-06-12T18:16:18 < boddax> air cooled lol
2019-06-12T18:19:09 < boddax> i think same price you can buy nissan gtr but no same fashion
2019-06-12T18:20:34 < sync> boddax: speed is important
2019-06-12T18:20:42 < sync> as distance is its integral
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2019-06-12T18:21:57 < boddax> depends what your use , for me to drive belong the sea coast is enough to enjoy
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2019-06-12T18:33:28 < sync> yes, then speed is not important, but all the other times I have to be places
2019-06-12T18:47:32 < dongs> zyp do you know if F4/F7/F0 have same i2c controller
2019-06-12T18:47:35 < dongs> or F0/F7
2019-06-12T18:47:40 < dongs> looking to see whcih code i should steal
2019-06-12T18:52:30 < zyp> which chip are you using?
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2019-06-12T18:53:19 < zyp> IIRC F1/F2/F4 is v1, F3 is v2
2019-06-12T18:53:37 < zyp> unsure about whether F0 came before or after F3, and I assume F7 would have v2
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2019-06-12T18:58:21 < dongs> has anyone ever written a bootloader that provides all hardware interactions and userspace is given a struct which has hardware specific calls to use and actually cannot use any hardware directly
2019-06-12T18:59:43 < karlp> stellaris stylee
2019-06-12T18:59:52 < karlp> what's stopping them from using the hardware?
2019-06-12T18:59:54 < dongs> is that the shit that has libc in rom?
2019-06-12T18:59:58 < karlp> yeah.
2019-06-12T19:00:07 < dongs> nothing, but I control both the bootloader and the app
2019-06-12T19:00:40 < karlp> what's the goal then? make it "easier" to write the app layer?
2019-06-12T19:00:45 < dongs> also main "loop" is in bootloader as well. it calls a tick or wahtever from userspace that it registers on startup
2019-06-12T19:01:01 < karlp> have you met elua/micropython/jerryscript/etcetcetc
2019-06-12T19:01:12 < dongs> yeah, it neesd to be secure-ish, not retarded
2019-06-12T19:01:29 < dongs> otherwise i'd just blog up a non-bootloader thing
2019-06-12T19:05:58 < jpa-> i've done that with pawn, but haven't bothered with C
2019-06-12T19:06:25 < jpa-> dso quad does similar with C but most people just end up accessing hardware directly because the "rom" implementations are so buggy
2019-06-12T19:08:10 < jpa-> silicon labs bluetooth stack does it so that there is a single gateway function that takes command id and a pointer to struct, and returns a pointer to result struct; then they have a .h that does like #define bt_init() bt_stack_wrapper(cmd_id_bt_init, cmd_struct_bt_init_t{ ... })
2019-06-12T19:09:16 < jpa-> nice thing about silicon labs' way is that you don't need to define a bazillion addresses for many functions, just a single one
2019-06-12T19:09:28 < dongs> i was thinking a struct with function pointers
2019-06-12T19:09:37 < dongs> shitload of macros sounds like aids
2019-06-12T19:09:41 < dongs> especially when there's a proper IDE
2019-06-12T19:10:44 < jpa-> yeah, that should work also
2019-06-12T19:13:08 < qyx> F0 was after F3
2019-06-12T19:13:14 < qyx> iirc
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2019-06-12T19:21:17 < englishman> an abstraction layer or an actual hypervisor
2019-06-12T19:21:27 < englishman> f0 is v2 i2c
2019-06-12T19:34:09 < englishman> OSHA report of the FIU collapse is out
2019-06-12T19:34:17 < englishman> lots of fail within
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2019-06-12T19:36:05 < englishman> At that meeting, the EOR acknowledged that his computations could not replicate the cracks and therefore, he did not know why the cracks were occurring.
2019-06-12T19:36:05 < englishman> "But my model says this can't happen."
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2019-06-12T19:40:42 < karlp> insert chernobyl meme
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2019-06-12T19:50:25 < rajkosto> https://hackaday.com/2019/06/12/shorting-pins-on-a-raspberry-pi-is-a-bad-idea-pmic-failures-under-investigation/ what
2019-06-12T19:51:23 < rajkosto> like this isnt news
2019-06-12T19:51:26 < rajkosto> dont short 5V to 3.3v
2019-06-12T19:55:31 < rajkosto> typical hackaday trash article too
2019-06-12T19:56:18 -!- gsi__ is now known as gsi_
2019-06-12T19:56:43 < jpa-> don't read?
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2019-06-12T20:01:16 < englishman> lol
2019-06-12T20:04:11 < karlp> interesting part of it is that the same part number on mouser isn't actually compatible.
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2019-06-12T20:13:12 < jpa-> it has OTP programming so perhaps the part is not one of the standard -A or -X variants but customized
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2019-06-12T20:38:24 < Cracki> zyp, rom bootloader because it'd be very convenient to use something builtin instead of diy or foraging the net
2019-06-12T20:39:14 < Cracki> a rom bl doing crypto would need a secret key somewhere of course, which would need to be programmed by the developer
2019-06-12T20:40:09 < jpa-> you can load a decryptor to RAM using the ROM bootloader
2019-06-12T20:40:25 < jpa-> and then feed the encrypted firmware to that, and it can then handle setting the readout protection
2019-06-12T20:40:56 < zyp> breaks the chain of trust though, you've got nowhere secure to store the key
2019-06-12T20:41:09 < zyp> a locked stm32 disables the rom bootloader IIRC
2019-06-12T20:41:26 < jpa-> maybe something like    hash(device_id + secret) ^ decryption_key   could be stored in OTP?
2019-06-12T20:41:29 < zyp> and before locking, you've got nowhere to hide the key
2019-06-12T20:41:41 < jpa-> ah
2019-06-12T20:41:44 < jpa-> silly me
2019-06-12T20:42:44 < Cracki> eh, would have been nice but there are a bunch of examples and even appnotes about crypto bootloaders out there
2019-06-12T20:43:51 < zyp> doing a basic custom bootloader is pretty easy, I prefer that over rom bootloader
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2019-06-12T20:44:09 < zyp> once you've done that, adding a decryption layer to it is easy
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2019-06-12T21:38:12 < Steffanx> Hi jly
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2019-06-12T22:19:56 < Rickta59> so a date code of "804" on an stm32f303cc would be 2018 week 4?
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2019-06-12T22:35:47 < Rickta59> I feel like I'm entering this decade with this chip. modern style alternate pin selection and on rom based DFU 
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2019-06-12T23:06:19 < mawk> yes no more blue pill for you Rickta59 
2019-06-12T23:08:49 < Rickta59> I never really liked them other than the price :)
2019-06-12T23:08:59 < Rickta59> well i did .. but they have quirks
2019-06-12T23:09:30 < Rickta59> https://mcu.selfip.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=106&p=908#p908 my observations of my new favorite
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2019-06-12T23:47:18 < Mangy_Dog> cant say i know the f303
2019-06-12T23:48:04 < Rickta59> cortex-m4 seems to be meant for adc applications
2019-06-12T23:48:21 < Rickta59> * not that that board I bought is optimized for adc
2019-06-12T23:49:05 < Mangy_Dog> oh its got built in can
--- Day changed Thu Jun 13 2019
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2019-06-13T00:20:01 < Cracki> I think even the good old f103 have that, but I think you can only use CAN xor USB at the same time
2019-06-13T00:20:26 < Cracki> something about them sharing some memory...
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2019-06-13T00:35:13 < Thorn> I ran into it in a project in 2011-2012 and had to use FT232 for USB
2019-06-13T00:35:21 < Thorn> haven't used F1 since 
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2019-06-13T00:47:12 < bitmask> I have too much shit, aliexpress turned me into a hoarder
2019-06-13T00:48:06 < friendofafriend> Smart hoarder with all that stupid tradewar.
2019-06-13T00:49:15 < bitmask> why did I never buy one of those breadboard power supply things, coulda come in handy right now
2019-06-13T00:49:23  * bitmask opens aliexpress
2019-06-13T00:49:34 < kakimir> those are shit
2019-06-13T00:49:43 < bitmask> even for basic shit testing?
2019-06-13T00:49:46 < friendofafriend> Yeah, roundly rejected as terribad.
2019-06-13T00:50:05 < bitmask> I just want a barrel jack  or something
2019-06-13T00:50:09 < kakimir> I had failed units
2019-06-13T00:50:17 < kakimir> regulation didn't work
2019-06-13T00:50:19 < friendofafriend> Reports are you'll fry it with 12V, can feed no more than 9V to them.
2019-06-13T00:50:35 < kakimir> smoky smoke from my circuits
2019-06-13T00:50:38 < Steffanx> Did your friens told you?
2019-06-13T00:50:45 < bitmask> I don't really use more than 5v on a breadboard
2019-06-13T00:50:50 < Steffanx> Friend tell you*
2019-06-13T00:50:56 < friendofafriend> "Frens", and sure.
2019-06-13T00:51:15 < kakimir> bitmask: why not just solder usb vbus or something
2019-06-13T00:51:17 < kakimir> to pins
2019-06-13T00:51:24 < kakimir> poke them in and thats it
2019-06-13T00:51:39 < Steffanx> And blow your USB port when shit happens?
2019-06-13T00:51:40 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-06-13T00:51:53 < bitmask> I guess, I already have a couple usb to barrel cables, figured id just use one of those
2019-06-13T00:52:20 < Steffanx> Is the engine running yet, kakimir ?
2019-06-13T00:52:31 < kakimir> nope
2019-06-13T00:52:39 < kakimir> I will update you shortly
2019-06-13T00:52:45 < Steffanx> Good good
2019-06-13T00:53:06 < specing> friendofafriend: whats with the tradewar? you cannot order from ali any more?
2019-06-13T00:53:51 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-06-13T00:55:36 < bitmask> ali ships everything to the US through the Philippines now
2019-06-13T00:56:05 < friendofafriend> specing: It's better to have the parts in your toolbox, in your country, with trade rumblings going on.  That's all.
2019-06-13T00:56:14 < specing> Hahahaha!
2019-06-13T00:56:23 < specing> friendofafriend: Im in europ'
2019-06-13T00:56:32 < friendofafriend> Enjoy your VAT.
2019-06-13T00:56:52 < specing> the only sanctions seem to be on Russia, but we are getting their products no problem via belarus
2019-06-13T00:57:17 < specing> friendofafriend: yeah :/   Small stuff gets through VAT-free, though (the limit is 22 eur)
2019-06-13T00:57:44 < friendofafriend> That's a terror, sorry about that.
2019-06-13T00:57:47 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/13JBNGosUwxAk2ZTXN0mIG-ATdopRG43U/view?usp=sharing Steffanx 
2019-06-13T00:57:53 < kakimir> build phase
2019-06-13T00:58:20 < specing> friendofafriend: whats a terror?
2019-06-13T00:58:58 < friendofafriend> specing: Something scary.
2019-06-13T00:59:15 < specing> friendofafriend: what is scary here?
2019-06-13T00:59:34 < Cracki> incidents
2019-06-13T00:59:38 < friendofafriend> Going over 22EUR and getting hit with... what 20% tax?
2019-06-13T01:00:24 < Cracki> around here they don't bother if (vat=) 19% on your shit is less than 5 bucks, so that's 5/.19 = 26.32 moneys
2019-06-13T01:02:06 < kakimir> funland lowered limit to 10eur or so
2019-06-13T01:02:21 < kakimir> but I don't see it affecting the screening process
2019-06-13T01:03:07 < kakimir> they don't have time to determine if shit is worth 10eur or not
2019-06-13T01:04:39 < specing> friendofafriend: 22%
2019-06-13T01:05:28 < specing> friendofafriend: I managed to get 30 eur worth of stuff through without tax on multiple occasions though
2019-06-13T01:06:33 < Cracki> they once asked me to open a box full of jumper wires worth 10 bucks because they thought, by weight, it might be valuable
2019-06-13T01:07:46 < friendofafriend> Sounds like clown world.
2019-06-13T01:07:54 < Cracki> they stopped bothering me after that
2019-06-13T01:08:17 < Cracki> 40-50 bucks, they didn't care
2019-06-13T01:08:24 < specing> Cracki: they asked you?
2019-06-13T01:08:36 < specing> arent they supposed to uh ... just open it?
2019-06-13T01:09:04 < Cracki> yes, you get a letter to show up and open your package in front of their eyes, instead of door delivery
2019-06-13T01:09:16 < Cracki> dunno, I guess sometimes they do
2019-06-13T01:09:26 < specing> really?
2019-06-13T01:09:28 < specing> :O
2019-06-13T01:09:31 < Cracki> but they want you to prove the package's worth. printouts from aliex or paypal seem acceptable
2019-06-13T01:09:35 < specing> Where do you live?
2019-06-13T01:09:45 < Cracki> somewhere in europe
2019-06-13T01:09:53 < Cracki> in a place that is that anal about things
2019-06-13T01:09:58 < specing> Yes, here I heard they also require printouts
2019-06-13T01:10:14 < specing> but I've had 100 packages delivered so far without any customs interaction
2019-06-13T01:10:22 < Cracki> I must have landed on a whitelist eventually, or they stopped bothering altogether
2019-06-13T01:10:40 < specing> maybe I should try ordering a $100 phone or something and see what happens
2019-06-13T01:11:21 < Cracki> dunno if they're allowed to xray stuff... I can imagine that international wares shipments could be exempt from some privacy laws
2019-06-13T01:11:35 < specing> why wouldn't they be?
2019-06-13T01:11:52 < specing> they can xray everything at airports, so why not at normal customs?
2019-06-13T01:12:00 < specing> especially when these packets go by air
2019-06-13T01:12:06 < Cracki> if it's a letter, it's a secret
2019-06-13T01:12:21 < Cracki> if it's wares, who knows, idc
2019-06-13T01:12:51 < Cracki> when I ordered a 35 bucks multimeter or a 50 bucks logic analyzer, it must have looked cheap enough
2019-06-13T01:13:01 < Cracki> try ordering a smartphone for 20 bucks
2019-06-13T01:14:13 < Cracki> customs office dude once asked me to explain what's in the package. didn't understand what I was saying. he then asked "modules?" and that must be the magic word to let shit through around here because modules seem to not be considered consumer goods
2019-06-13T01:15:00 < Cracki> they were more interested in counterfeit clothing and shoes and handbags and all that shit
2019-06-13T01:15:24 < Cracki> (is what they said when I got one talking)
2019-06-13T01:16:17 < Cracki> that's why all the chinese stuff has these funny sounding brands. then it's not really counterfeit because it's a different brand.
2019-06-13T01:22:00 < bitmask> hmmm, what crimp die do I use for ferrules
2019-06-13T01:22:15 < bitmask> probably doesnt really matter
2019-06-13T01:22:40 < bitmask> something as square as possible
2019-06-13T01:23:44 < specing> bitmask: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/by90we/which_crimp_tools_and_terminals/
2019-06-13T01:24:19 < kakimir> engineering pa-09
2019-06-13T01:24:22 < kakimir> made in japan
2019-06-13T01:25:01 < kakimir> actually those have bigger crimps
2019-06-13T01:25:11 < kakimir> I check the model for the small shiet
2019-06-13T01:26:04 < specing> kakimir: see first comment
2019-06-13T01:26:05 < bitmask> lots of info there specing , not sure I found what i was looking for
2019-06-13T01:26:13 < specing> bitmask: me neither
2019-06-13T01:26:15 < bitmask> oh first comment?
2019-06-13T01:26:19 < bitmask> oh
2019-06-13T01:26:24 < specing> crimping is a very expensive business apparently
2019-06-13T01:26:50 < kakimir> crimping is not trivial
2019-06-13T01:26:57 < specing> the engineer PAD-02 3-die + tool kit is $130
2019-06-13T01:27:00 < bitmask> yea that link in the first comment is what I usually see people use, but id rather not buy a new crimper just for ferrules, if I can use one of the interchangable dies for my crimper id rather do that
2019-06-13T01:27:12 < specing> and its not even ratcheting
2019-06-13T01:27:36 < specing> bitmask: which crimper do you have that has interchangeable dies?
2019-06-13T01:27:43 < mawk> did you see my question from yesterday Steffanx ? it was do you know about the Abel Sensors company in NL
2019-06-13T01:30:01 < bitmask> a cheap $30 ratcheting one from aliexpress
2019-06-13T01:30:01 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/Bz1XRWe.png
2019-06-13T01:32:56 < specing> bitmask: I hate that they use hex nuts for the jaws
2019-06-13T01:33:08 < specing> bitmask: it should be designed to just fall out
2019-06-13T01:33:16 < specing> slide-in/slide-out
2019-06-13T01:33:20 < specing> or something
2019-06-13T01:33:31 < specing> the PAD-11 engineer has 4 screws even,..
2019-06-13T01:33:32 < bitmask> its not that bad, 
2019-06-13T01:33:48 < bitmask> man, none of my dies looks great for ferrules
2019-06-13T01:33:56 < specing> while the pressmaster MCT has no screws and is ratcheting, $60 for tool, $60 for each die though....
2019-06-13T01:34:01 < specing> bitmask: yes
2019-06-13T01:34:17 < bitmask> actually...
2019-06-13T01:34:38 < bitmask> the one on the left might be ok
2019-06-13T01:34:42 < bitmask> its very long
2019-06-13T01:34:44 < specing> nope
2019-06-13T01:34:45 < bitmask> compared to the others
2019-06-13T01:35:01 < specing> the crimp profile is tottally wrong
2019-06-13T01:35:03 < specing> :)
2019-06-13T01:35:09 < bitmask> doesn't mean it wont work
2019-06-13T01:35:21 < specing> you can try yes
2019-06-13T01:35:43 < specing> you'll get a smashed ferrule that wont fit into screw terminals
2019-06-13T01:35:54 < specing> but you can use an XXL-terminal...
2019-06-13T01:36:29 < bitmask> oh damn, the hole on the screw terminal is smaller than I thought :P
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2019-06-13T01:41:47 < bitmask> I think this will work just fine
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2019-06-13T02:18:27 < Thorn> is it worth it to reset SPI pins to analog input when I'm not using SPI to conserve power?
2019-06-13T02:20:32 < jadew`> I don't think you'd conserve much power
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2019-06-13T02:31:34 < Cracki> are you counting microamps?
2019-06-13T02:32:53 < specing> nanoamps
2019-06-13T02:33:04 < bitmask> picoamps
2019-06-13T02:33:31 < karlp> just like any other pin to go to analog in thorn, so "yes" as per manuals.  especially if they'll be idle for any significant percentage of the time
2019-06-13T02:33:32 < jadew`> femtoamps
2019-06-13T02:33:49 < Thorn> attoamps
2019-06-13T02:34:34 < jadew`> what's after that?
2019-06-13T02:34:43 < jadew`> e-21?
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2019-06-13T02:35:07 < Cracki> hook it up and count
2019-06-13T02:35:29 < jadew`> zepto
2019-06-13T02:35:31 < jadew`> and yocto
2019-06-13T02:36:02 < jadew`> so, how many yocto amps are you planning to save?
2019-06-13T02:36:34 < Thorn> 1000000000000000000000000
2019-06-13T02:36:58 < Cracki> venezuelans put logarithms/exponents on their price tags
2019-06-13T02:37:33 < Thorn> and check current exchange rates on instagram
2019-06-13T02:38:04 < Cracki> *kissyface*
2019-06-13T02:38:19 < Cracki> pardon, *duckface*
2019-06-13T02:39:37 < jadew`> I guess you have to be quick when buying stuff in Venezuela
2019-06-13T02:39:50 < jadew`> if it takes too long to pull the wallet out, the price goes up
2019-06-13T02:40:40 < Thorn> https://youtu.be/hCMyf2ri0is?t=1868
2019-06-13T02:40:50 < jadew`> I thought they were about to get out of that situtation
2019-06-13T02:40:53 < jadew`> what happened?
2019-06-13T02:41:14 < Cracki> nothing happened, maduro still seems to be in power
2019-06-13T02:41:45 < Cracki> too many people didn't like murican intervention, even when it could have been positive for once
2019-06-13T02:42:06 < Cracki> srsly how much more than maduro could that other guy fuck it up
2019-06-13T02:43:05 < jadew`> they probably know they can fix everything themselves
2019-06-13T02:43:13 < jadew`> and then have things working on their own terms
2019-06-13T02:43:53 < Cracki> foreign meddling and dictatorships are inevitable when you have oil
2019-06-13T02:44:25 < Cracki> same shit in syria ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-06-13T02:45:31 < jadew`> aliexpress keeps distracting me from my goals
2019-06-13T02:45:57 < jadew`> these are not the enclosures I was looking for: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/not-enclosures/32842043527.html
2019-06-13T02:46:30 < Cracki> naughty naughty
2019-06-13T02:48:52 < Cracki> local welders love to take money for custom torture chamber gear
2019-06-13T02:49:24 < jadew`> maybe I can get them to build me an enclosure to my specifications
2019-06-13T02:50:03 < Cracki> get a quote on alibaba. I want to see if the customs people can still blush
2019-06-13T02:50:35 < jadew`> I've got quotes for CNC stuff before, they're more expensive than doing them here
2019-06-13T02:50:44 < Cracki> if it's sheet metal, cut and bent, with a few holes, there are lots of shops that do that
2019-06-13T02:50:51 < Cracki> that too
2019-06-13T02:51:07 < jadew`> the problem with this particular enclosure is that I designed it so it cannot be opened, but it would cost too much too produce, because it requires very tight tollerances
2019-06-13T02:52:13 < jadew`> it wasn't sheet metal, it's difficult to find something that looks good
2019-06-13T02:52:26 < Cracki> a task for the local trade school maybe?
2019-06-13T02:52:36 < jadew`> I have a few samples like that and they look like shit made in the 50s
2019-06-13T02:52:42 < Cracki> they got nothing better to do than practice
2019-06-13T02:53:20 < jadew`> I'd do it myself if I had a CNC
2019-06-13T02:53:42 < Cracki> so... cnc mill from a solid block, or cnc mill some sheet?
2019-06-13T02:53:54 < jadew`> solid block
2019-06-13T02:54:11 < Cracki> you expect to get tighter tolerances from milling it yourself vs. having it done in some shop somewhere?
2019-06-13T02:54:35 < jadew`> yeah, because I can do it and make adjustments 10 times until I get it right
2019-06-13T02:54:45 < Cracki> oh, that kinda tolerance
2019-06-13T02:54:59 < Cracki> I think you can do that in someone's shop too
2019-06-13T02:55:11 < jadew`> yeah, but it would cost as much as a CNC
2019-06-13T02:57:16 < jadew`> I'll have to find another solution
2019-06-13T03:00:09 < jadew`> I could use one of those extruded aluminium enclosures, but that means custom panels and having to deal with the WEEE crap
2019-06-13T03:00:37 < jadew`> my plan was to sell it as a component
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2019-06-13T03:21:41 < jadew`> got a message this morning: "Your order has been shipped via Same day Delivery. It will arrive tomorrow."
2019-06-13T03:32:39 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/jP0ZJdc.jpg
2019-06-13T03:32:42 < bitmask> :P
2019-06-13T03:33:03 < rajkosto> fake clone DC buck chip ?
2019-06-13T03:33:22 < bitmask> is there any good way without two jumpers to not power the buck when you just want the power from the barrel jack?
2019-06-13T03:33:30 < bitmask> am I missing something
2019-06-13T03:33:40 < bitmask> yea probably fake, who knows
2019-06-13T03:34:08 < jadew`> bitmask, a switch
2019-06-13T03:34:15 < bitmask> same as a jumper
2019-06-13T03:34:24 < bitmask> I guess i'll just keep the jumper on the output
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2019-06-13T04:21:48 < specing> I opened LCSC to pick a switch for the reset button, but I got overwhelmed with choice
2019-06-13T04:22:04 < specing> What do you people use? A standard THT tactile switch?
2019-06-13T04:22:10 < dongs> specing: skqgabe010
2019-06-13T04:22:19 < dongs> https://www.alps.com/prod/info/J/HTML/Tact/SurfaceMount/SKQG/SKQGABE010.html
2019-06-13T04:22:25 < dongs> chinaclones are like $0.10 for 100
2019-06-13T04:22:49 < specing> dongs: it looks strange https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Tactile-Switches_ALPS_SKQGABE010_5-2-5-2-1-5-1-57N_C115351.html
2019-06-13T04:23:01 < dongs> no it doesnt
2019-06-13T04:23:03 < dongs> click 2nd pic
2019-06-13T04:23:11 < dongs> for some reason butt pic is teh first one
2019-06-13T04:23:19 < specing> Ah I was looking at its butt
2019-06-13T04:23:20 < dongs> its your normal chinese tactile button thingy
2019-06-13T04:23:22 < specing> pervert me
2019-06-13T04:23:44 < dongs> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Tactile-Switches_Korean-Hroparts-Elec-K2-1107ST-A4SW-06_C118141.html is also common
2019-06-13T04:24:01 < dongs> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Tactile-Switches_XKB-Enterprise-TS-1187-B-A-A_C318884.html
2019-06-13T04:24:04 < dongs> ah there's chinaclones of the alps
2019-06-13T04:24:13 < dongs> yeah thats the one with $0.02 for 20 haha
2019-06-13T04:25:11 < specing> Thank you dongs 
2019-06-13T04:25:15 < dongs> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Tactile-Switches_4-4-1-7-Plastic-head_C10852.html even cheaper!
2019-06-13T04:25:19 < dongs> but the top button looks palstic not copper
2019-06-13T04:25:36 < specing> probably better, copper would oxydise
2019-06-13T04:25:44 < dongs> but the china ones will make you buy like 50
2019-06-13T04:25:46 < Thorn> why still no stm32g in lcsc
2019-06-13T04:25:56 < specing> ah right, I'd end up with too many switches
2019-06-13T04:26:03 < jadew`> specing, there's no such thing
2019-06-13T04:26:11 < jadew`> you can always use a switch
2019-06-13T04:26:15 < dongs> thorn has a drawer with like 1000 of htem cuz he bought aliexpress special of 1 bag for $1
2019-06-13T04:26:24 < specing> Lol
2019-06-13T04:26:24 < dongs> and waited 2 months for it to arrive
2019-06-13T04:26:34 < dongs> then bitched that they were in a bag instead of reel
2019-06-13T04:26:47 < dongs> true stroy
2019-06-13T04:26:49 < dongs> story
2019-06-13T04:28:04 < Thorn> dongs: last ugreen usb cable order took exactly 1 week to arrive (from accepted to my post office)
2019-06-13T04:28:11 < Thorn> normally it's 2-3 weeks
2019-06-13T04:28:15 < Thorn> never 2 months
2019-06-13T04:28:19 < dongs> nice
2019-06-13T04:28:22 < dongs> hey, i also use ugreen usb
2019-06-13T04:28:25 < specing> Thorn: usb cable?
2019-06-13T04:28:26 < dongs> chinagirl gets them for cheap
2019-06-13T04:28:27 < specing> Link?
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2019-06-13T04:28:56 < Thorn> search ugreen, it will show you their store
2019-06-13T04:28:58 < dongs> i sell some high end stuff with usb-mini-b in them and i wanted matching gold cables
2019-06-13T04:29:04 < Thorn> on aliexpress
2019-06-13T04:29:15 < dongs> ugreen delivered
2019-06-13T04:30:09 < Thorn> https://ugreen.aliexpress.com/store/301635
2019-06-13T04:30:38 < specing> yeah Im there Thorn 
2019-06-13T04:30:55 < specing> I need some microusb cables, nearly all that I have are losing contact
2019-06-13T04:31:15 < specing> magnetic looks nice wow
2019-06-13T04:33:34 < dongs> magnetic?
2019-06-13T04:34:39 < Thorn> specing: this is the cable you're looking for https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32391749504.html
2019-06-13T04:35:30 < specing> dongs: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Ugreen-Magnetic-USB-Cable-Fast-Charging-USB-Type-C-Cable-Magnet-Charger-Data-Charge-Micro-USB/301635_32929593168.html
2019-06-13T04:35:57 < dongs> ah those
2019-06-13T04:36:25 < specing> Thorn: dongs those are some expensive cables
2019-06-13T04:36:33 < specing> even the non-magnetic ones are like $3
2019-06-13T04:37:11 < Thorn> it's the best cable I've ever had
2019-06-13T04:37:43 < dongs> price works for me. i'm selling it with like $500/pc stuff
2019-06-13T04:37:46 < dongs> i can spend $3 on a cable
2019-06-13T04:40:35 < jadew`> I'm spending 3 times that on a fucking wire with a thread
2019-06-13T04:40:45 < dongs> ya judew youre doing it wrong
2019-06-13T04:40:48 < specing> Ok the 25cm one is only $1.7
2019-06-13T04:40:52 < specing> thats acceptable :D
2019-06-13T04:41:01 < jadew`> dongs, I simply can't find an alternative
2019-06-13T04:41:08 < jadew`> I know the chinese have one, but I couldn't find it
2019-06-13T04:41:31 < specing> dongs: Thorn What is the resistance of the 3m one?
2019-06-13T04:41:47 < Thorn> dunno I don't have any
2019-06-13T04:42:44 < specing> Ok apparently ugreen has some "fans festival" thing going on, where you get lower price if you follow the shop
2019-06-13T04:42:48 < jadew`> dongs, I'm looking for this part: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Imported-original-components-11364-TERM-TURRET_60840990315.html
2019-06-13T04:43:17 < dongs> the hell is taht even
2019-06-13T04:43:31 < jadew`> DC connector
2019-06-13T04:43:39 < dongs> retarded
2019-06-13T04:43:43 < dongs> pick soemthing better
2019-06-13T04:43:44 < jadew`> goes through a block of metal
2019-06-13T04:44:28 < aandrew> woo layout all night tonight
2019-06-13T04:44:46 < aandrew> abusing 2x I2C DACs to be a programmable attenuator for an 18-bit ADC
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2019-06-13T04:46:35 < jadew`> I basically need a power connector for this: http://5.12.166.69/stuff/box.png
2019-06-13T04:47:10 < jadew`> a regular DC connector just feels wrong
2019-06-13T04:47:18 < aandrew> why not just feed it DC on the input like any other RF device
2019-06-13T04:47:28 < jadew`> aandrew, I want it to be convenient
2019-06-13T04:47:46 < jadew`> the user would need a bias tee too
2019-06-13T04:48:06 < aandrew> which is probably something they'd have if they're doing RF, no?
2019-06-13T04:48:24 < aandrew> otherwise, maybe a pluggable connector but something that you can screw down 
2019-06-13T04:48:31 < jadew`> still... it would be inconvenient, they'd have to power the bias tee anyway
2019-06-13T04:50:05 < jadew`> I saw those turret connectors on cheap chinese stuff, so there's obviously a source for affordable ones
2019-06-13T04:53:58 < dongs> does this need to be waterproof or something
2019-06-13T04:54:12 < jadew`> would be good if it was, yeah
2019-06-13T04:54:46 < jadew`> but I could compromise on the first version if I found something that worked on that box
2019-06-13T05:06:50 < aandrew> https://yt-project.org/ interesting
2019-06-13T05:21:45 < Cracki> >yeet
2019-06-13T05:28:25 < dongs> retarded fucking archer C7 trash holy fuck
2019-06-13T05:28:31 < dongs> it loses time on reboot (lol lunix)
2019-06-13T05:28:39 < dongs> but I can't specify a NTP server because....
2019-06-13T05:28:46 < dongs> apparently it needs an "internet connection" ?????????????
2019-06-13T05:28:54 < dongs> when all I'm using it for is fucking wifi AP
2019-06-13T05:30:12 < dongs> ever since i enabled guest wifi it also needs to be hard-rebooted every few months
2019-06-13T05:30:19 < dongs> because it jsust stops working
2019-06-13T05:30:24 < dongs> fucking lunix niggerware
2019-06-13T05:31:53 < specing> Lol
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2019-06-13T07:08:38 < dongs> https://qz.com/1641276/a-hydrogen-fueling-station-explodes-in-norways-baerum/ RIP zyp
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2019-06-13T07:26:01 < Cracki> BAERUM!!
2019-06-13T07:26:28 < Cracki> >airbag triggered in a car nearby
2019-06-13T07:38:53 < Cracki> so... anyone using teamviewer or anydesk for screen sharing or remote admin or anything at all? TV is getting pissy with me right now.
2019-06-13T07:39:26 < dongs> teamjewer can fuck off
2019-06-13T07:39:37 < dongs> just use VNC like a fucking brokebitch
2019-06-13T07:40:30 < Cracki> I do where people are "privacy-conscious" about this stuff
2019-06-13T07:40:58 < Cracki> haven't looked at the state of vnc in years. I hope someone got audio working between windows machines at least?
2019-06-13T07:42:37 < Cracki> both tv and anydesk are german companies but those dudes running TV look shady
2019-06-13T07:42:51 < dongs> audio? lol
2019-06-13T07:44:23 < Cracki> windows 7 RDP disables the gpu, which fucks with the Adobe video editing program... gpu acceleration just disappears
2019-06-13T07:44:27 < Cracki> so there's that
2019-06-13T07:45:53 < dongs> windows ............................. seven ?
2019-06-13T07:45:59 < dongs> the fuck are you on
2019-06-13T07:46:29 < Cracki> you would prefer ubuntu, wouldn't you
2019-06-13T07:47:40 < dongs> why arent you on windows 10
2019-06-13T07:47:54 < Cracki> couldn't be assed yet
2019-06-13T07:48:56 < Cracki> we'll update them before fall, when nothing's affected
2019-06-13T07:49:05 < Cracki> (the video editing boxes)
2019-06-13T07:52:55 < Cracki> maybe win10 rdp doesn't disable the gpu... so that'll be interesting
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2019-06-13T09:11:46 < boddax> microsoft planning to back windows 3.11 they said thats the last version working fine
2019-06-13T09:18:57 < boddax> any pcb cad soft that can i put picture of voard in background like a carboncopy to trace in the top?
2019-06-13T09:20:56 < jly> wait windows 3.11 wtf 
2019-06-13T09:21:07 < jly> was that back in 1950?
2019-06-13T09:22:42 < boddax> just for fun jly even win10 has many problems with drivers with securety scanner always issues
2019-06-13T09:23:18 < boddax> maybe win3.11 was early '90 dont know
2019-06-13T09:23:38 < dongs> ?????????
2019-06-13T09:23:43 < dongs> boddax: are you some kinda dumb troll
2019-06-13T09:23:47 < dongs> wait, dont answer that I know you are
2019-06-13T09:24:29 < boddax> cool
2019-06-13T09:27:06 < dongs> boddax do you realize
2019-06-13T09:27:10 < dongs> 32bit version of windows 10
2019-06-13T09:27:18 < dongs> can install and use a driver written for windows 2000
2019-06-13T09:27:26 < dongs> thats 2 decades of compatibility
2019-06-13T09:27:34 < dongs> try to load a lunix driver from last week
2019-06-13T09:27:36 < dongs> on this weeks kernel
2019-06-13T09:27:41 < dongs> it will spew out millions of errors
2019-06-13T09:27:49 < boddax> the problem is who sell to you the keyboard dongs ehehe
2019-06-13T09:27:51 < dongs> and you can't even recompile it because they already removed the API the old driver used
2019-06-13T09:29:56 < dongs> i like how the only answer you can come up with is a non-sequitur.
2019-06-13T09:31:26 < boddax> if want write in latin learn it first dongs
2019-06-13T09:32:01 < dongs> retarded fucking french fuck.
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2019-06-13T09:47:19 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/8Zy0EKI.jpg found zyp
2019-06-13T09:56:28 < jly> ok let me 
2019-06-13T09:57:11 < jly> oh i can't read it
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2019-06-13T10:12:50 < zyp> Tromsø, it says
2019-06-13T10:15:25 < zyp> that's actually not so far off, in straight line distance Tromsø is roughly 120km away from where I grew up
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2019-06-13T10:16:26 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/ZD418QJ.jpg that program was allright but i wish they didnt do this
2019-06-13T10:16:29 < dongs> for most of the aurora shots
2019-06-13T10:16:52 < zyp> haha
2019-06-13T10:18:27 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/U1P1b10.jpg was ok wehn this
2019-06-13T10:19:23 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/BZzhZJc.jpg and typical norway pastime
2019-06-13T10:20:32 < zyp> drinking beer? thought that was typical pastime all over the world
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2019-06-13T10:37:29 < jly> Y E P
2019-06-13T10:37:33 < jly> o/
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2019-06-13T12:57:54 < boddax> Ultiboard from National Instrument can import pics nicely
2019-06-13T13:25:33 < jly> i haven't heard of that since 2005
2019-06-13T13:29:17 < boddax> last release about 2017 export thing very poor
2019-06-13T13:29:46 < jly> so it still sucks?
2019-06-13T13:32:18 < boddax> usually i use kicad can import very well pcad ascii many cad export that way , but its ok will import sprint layout from gerbers
2019-06-13T13:32:44 < boddax> for the rest look good soft with nice library
2019-06-13T13:50:03 < jadew`> https://i.imgur.com/LNYiF.gifv
2019-06-13T13:50:05 < jadew`> \
2019-06-13T13:50:07 < jadew`> \
2019-06-13T13:50:19 < jadew`> kb fell off
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2019-06-13T14:15:36 < boddax> drunk cat
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2019-06-13T14:17:03 < boddax> maybe its dongs cat :p
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2019-06-13T14:26:48 < dongs> old pic
2019-06-13T14:30:54 < dongs> ultiboard haha
2019-06-13T14:31:00 < dongs> who teh fuck still uses that except niggers like boddax 
2019-06-13T14:34:31 < boddax> girls apreciate niggers eheh
2019-06-13T14:38:12 < Mangy_Dog> dongs bad lanauge........ please
2019-06-13T14:38:40 < dongs> maddox who the fuck are you
2019-06-13T15:32:39 < jadew`> I just received something I ordered in February
2019-06-13T15:33:01 < jadew`> I can finally use my T12 soldering station for regular stuff
2019-06-13T15:35:51 < jadew`> hmm, all this time I thought I'm using D12 tips, but I think I was using D16
2019-06-13T15:35:57 < jadew`> this one is much finer
2019-06-13T15:44:28 < boddax> quicko?
2019-06-13T15:47:37 < jadew`> the store?
2019-06-13T15:48:13 < jadew`> no, some other one
2019-06-13T15:52:12 < boddax> no i mean the brand
2019-06-13T15:52:20 < boddax> hakk0?
2019-06-13T15:52:35 < jadew`> ksger
2019-06-13T15:52:45 < jadew`> I'm replacing a hakko fx-888
2019-06-13T15:54:26 < boddax> was watching at the custom station using weller 
2019-06-13T15:56:37 < boddax> http://kair.us/projects/weller/
2019-06-13T15:57:00 < boddax> http://lizerd.se/?page_id=41
2019-06-13T15:57:37 < boddax> who tested said working very nice
2019-06-13T16:01:28 < jadew`> looks cool
2019-06-13T16:05:31 < karlp> those weller wrms tips die easily though
2019-06-13T16:08:07 < karlp> I wonder what that custom base offers over teh weller base, it's a lot of custom work to get ~same as far as I can tell so far
2019-06-13T16:09:35 < jadew`> it's cheaper to diy
2019-06-13T16:09:48 < jadew`> if you don't account for the time spent on it
2019-06-13T16:10:01 < sync> I would not bother with the weller stuff
2019-06-13T16:10:08 < sync> jbc is far superior
2019-06-13T16:10:27 < boddax> yes jbc is much better
2019-06-13T16:10:36 < karlp> yeah, we've had that weller in the office for years, 
2019-06-13T16:12:09 < boddax> http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7218 this support almost all tips but very complicated circuit
2019-06-13T16:12:15 < sync> we leased weller in our production facility
2019-06-13T16:12:21 < sync> they had to replace tips all the time
2019-06-13T16:13:02 < karlp> yeh, we don't do as much soldering as we used to, we used to have some kids do a bunch of ahnd assembly, and were replacin tips way too mcuh too.
2019-06-13T16:14:14 < sync> they now rolled jbc out after I busted their balls for two years and they are still on the first set of tips
2019-06-13T16:16:02 < karlp> what's the price difference anyway? is it significant? 
2019-06-13T16:19:49 < sync> I think jbc gives them less margin but tbh if it lasts longer, why not
2019-06-13T16:25:11 < qyx> kids doing hand soldering
2019-06-13T16:25:17 < qyx> not enough patience
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2019-06-13T17:27:43 < boddax> what about desoldering gun? who tested the goot?
2019-06-13T17:29:42 < englishman> lvds working \o/
2019-06-13T17:29:47 < englishman> in uboot and lunix
2019-06-13T17:29:49 < englishman> what a pain
2019-06-13T17:31:46 < Thorn> I'm sending beacon frames periodically and timing the intervals between received beacons. the worst cast difference is over 10ms. wtf
2019-06-13T17:35:05 < Thorn> *worst case
2019-06-13T17:36:13 < fest> has anyone done benchmarks for AES encryption (software) on F427? I'm wondering what would the performance be (have used libtomcrypt on F405, but I didn't have performance concerns then)
2019-06-13T17:38:15 < dongs> is 427 the one with hardware crypto?
2019-06-13T17:38:40 < dongs> oh you said (software) why would it matter between 405 and 427
2019-06-13T17:38:50 < dongs> like 20mhz difference in speed?
2019-06-13T17:38:56 < dongs> if you raelyl need speed that much use one with hardware aes
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2019-06-13T17:46:35 < fest> product is already is using F427, non trivial to port at this time (except maybe F437, which seems to be the one with hw AES). Probably will have to benchmark and see
2019-06-13T17:46:37 < Thorn> yeah the payload ready is much more accurate than preamble detected
2019-06-13T17:48:15 < fest> since it's the contents of microSD which need to be encrypted, I wonder how does key exchange work for the microSD cards with hw encryption
2019-06-13T17:48:31 < dongs> fest, you could just use the SD card locking stuff.
2019-06-13T17:48:42 < dongs> you can set up to 12?16? bytes password thingy.
2019-06-13T17:48:50 < dongs> no idea how secure it is, i think the key goes over the wire
2019-06-13T17:49:37 < fest> customer spec calls for AES-128 specifically though 
2019-06-13T17:49:51 < dongs> then just use mbedtls or tomcrypt or anything else
2019-06-13T17:49:54 < dongs> its all gonna be ~similar
2019-06-13T17:50:00 < dongs> none of htem are specifically arm optimized as far as I know.
2019-06-13T17:50:10 < dongs> or you can buy some crypto lib from ST
2019-06-13T17:50:13 < dongs> there's a few vendors.
2019-06-13T17:50:19 < dongs> that would be hand-optimized for cortex-m
2019-06-13T17:50:35 < fest> https://github.com/Ko-/aes-armcortexm
2019-06-13T17:50:39 < dongs> "porting" 427 to 437 would be trivial, they're literally same thing plus addition of crypto shit
2019-06-13T17:50:39 < fest> this seems promising
2019-06-13T17:51:10 < fest> well, porting would require getting a few dozen devices back
2019-06-13T17:51:17 < dongs> yeah sure
2019-06-13T17:51:26 < fest> vs "oh, it's just a software upgrade"
2019-06-13T17:51:33 < dongs> then just use software
2019-06-13T17:52:02 < dongs> if you wanna do it dumb way you could prolly add encrypt/decrypt into fatfs block read/write
2019-06-13T17:52:08 < dongs> then nothing in software itself changes
2019-06-13T17:52:25 < dongs> you can just do ECB mode encryption on each 512byte sector
2019-06-13T17:52:31 < dongs> with some static keys in the app
2019-06-13T17:52:47 < dongs> and the card just looks like noise 
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2019-06-13T17:56:52 < fest> yeah, that sounds reasonable and the least risky way to leak something
2019-06-13T17:57:08 < dongs> ECB sucks but wahtever
2019-06-13T17:57:20 < dongs> better than nothing and least effort to implement
2019-06-13T17:57:44 < dongs> you could do ctr based on sector index or something i donno how useful thats gonna be 
2019-06-13T17:57:58 < dongs> ecb just makes it obvious when you have repeating data like FF FF etc
2019-06-13T17:58:10 < dongs> cuz the blocks will have same pattern every 16bytes
2019-06-13T17:58:39 < dongs> as long as you dont plan to use that SD card anyweher other than your hardware,. it works
2019-06-13T17:58:50 < dongs> beacuse on-disk "filesystem" is just random noise 
2019-06-13T18:01:44 < fest> it will need to be decrypted for debugging (it's logging for complex product), but that can be done by mounting it on linux, dd'ing the contents, decrypting and then mounting it back
2019-06-13T18:02:18 < dongs> won't work like that, you'd need to port fatfs to lunix to access it same way
2019-06-13T18:02:35 < dongs> better crypt per file basis
2019-06-13T18:09:03 < fest> why do you think it won't work? if each sector is decrypted individually and doesn't depend on plaintext before (as it is in ECB), the fs after decryption should be valid, no?
2019-06-13T18:09:25 < dongs> oh, i guess so yeah.
2019-06-13T18:09:30 < dongs> the 'unused' sectors will be rand()
2019-06-13T18:09:33 < dongs> but good ones will be OK
2019-06-13T18:09:35 < dongs> i suppose that works.
2019-06-13T18:12:50 < jpa-> fest: generally AES in software is pretty fast also, IIRC i saw some benchmarks that showed 2-4x speedup with the STM32F437 hw accel
2019-06-13T18:14:06 < c10ud> fest, you can implement usb mass storage and decrypt on the fly for the host
2019-06-13T18:14:12 < dongs> wow, i2c slave works
2019-06-13T18:14:23 < dongs> i copypasted some aids
2019-06-13T18:14:40 < jpa-> and yeah, with 774 cycles per 256 bits for the software implementation, it won't slow much compared to SD card access
2019-06-13T18:15:14 < dongs> thats pretty quick
2019-06-13T18:15:50 < jpa-> you could even add the LUKS-compatible headers to it and linux could then mount it without anything special
2019-06-13T18:16:37 < c10ud> or, like, don't bother encrypting because people won't care (?) lol
2019-06-13T18:17:09 < fest> jpa-: that would be neat, fucking around with LUKS for a week :>
2019-06-13T18:31:21 < dongs> aight i2c slave worsk now to do same for spi
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2019-06-13T18:37:21 < dongs> chinaman
2019-06-13T18:37:27 < dongs> youre still alive
2019-06-13T18:37:40 < dongs> ah no, just a dead reconnecting host
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2019-06-13T18:54:47 < qyx> dongs: ctr >>> ecb for this purpose
2019-06-13T19:05:58 < karlp> dongs: plz share spi slave when you do that. mine's still fucky.
2019-06-13T19:06:20 < karlp> I want to to proper "get two bytes, first byte is reg to read, and reply is with second byte" not having a fucking second transfer or some shit
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2019-06-13T19:23:19 < upgrdman> dongs, me? still alive
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2019-06-13T19:41:01 < boddax> all right Diptrace did the best job
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2019-06-13T19:55:11 < dongs> qyx yes, but i guess they'd need to init ctr with something i didnt care enough to see if sector would be sufficient
2019-06-13T19:55:49 < dongs> karlp: i dont think thats possible fast enough
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2019-06-13T19:57:54 < dongs> upgrdman: ya you
2019-06-13T19:59:07 < upgrdman> heh
2019-06-13T20:00:28 < karlp> dongs:well, it works for me once, first time after reboot, I just can't get the state machine right I guess.
2019-06-13T20:00:46 < karlp> I'm ok with limiting spi speed, but making separate transfers is lame,
2019-06-13T20:04:57 < englishman> upgrman has an excellent social credit score he's in no danger
2019-06-13T20:05:37 < englishman> dudes here complaining lga12 2x2 will be hard to assemble
2019-06-13T20:05:42 < englishman> niggaz
2019-06-13T20:05:47 < englishman> let me school you
2019-06-13T20:16:14 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2019-06-13T20:17:08 < Steffanx> Did englishman stop assembling in the mean time yet?
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2019-06-13T20:38:45 < englishman> yeah moving all that crap into the garage this weekend
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2019-06-13T21:33:24 < Steffanx> Awh
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2019-06-13T21:38:52 < boddax> mawk very silent dont want share his delicious rosin flux?
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2019-06-13T21:40:11 < mawk> :(
2019-06-13T21:40:29 < mawk> I have to pay 51€ penalties for not having declared the 0€ I earned this last year
2019-06-13T21:40:52 < boddax> what country you live?
2019-06-13T21:41:22 < mawk> like they sent me a mail saying they *know* I earned 0€ (because declared elsewhere at the retirement organism) but because I didn't declare it as well to the other organism they'll fine me
2019-06-13T21:41:39 < mawk> instead of sending mail they should just send the declaration to that other organism; but then they don't gain 51€
2019-06-13T21:41:40 < mawk> france
2019-06-13T21:43:07 < specing> mawk: make a complaint?
2019-06-13T21:43:10 < boddax> ridicolous ..tought only here italy can do that 
2019-06-13T21:43:39 < mawk> why specing ? it's a specific law
2019-06-13T21:43:49 < mawk> "declaring 0€ to urssaf but not declaring to state: 51€ fine"
2019-06-13T21:44:01 < mawk> they made that extra specific case in the law, I guess to maximize the gain from fines
2019-06-13T21:44:54 < boddax> you speaking about company business declaration or private citizen?
2019-06-13T21:45:28 < mawk> private citizen
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2019-06-13T21:55:48 < specing> Lol
2019-06-13T21:58:04 < specing> mawk: go to paris, set some car on fire. That'll even it out
2019-06-13T22:00:48 < mawk> it's authorized only on new year's eve
2019-06-13T22:09:10 < Steffanx> luckily mawk is already in paris.
2019-06-13T22:09:33 < Steffanx> so all he need is a yellow vest and a lighter
2019-06-13T22:10:49 < Steffanx> *needs
2019-06-13T22:12:48 < mawk> yeah
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2019-06-13T22:13:19 < mawk> yesterday I made a third li-ion charger to keep up with my ecigarette consumption
2019-06-13T22:13:31 < mawk> it lived a short life of 30 minutes before my girlfriend plugged the battery backwards
2019-06-13T22:13:40 < mawk> it melted all the hot glue, but the battery didn't explode
2019-06-13T22:15:50 < mawk> karlp: you can always insert padding in your protocol to let time for your slave to respond no ?
2019-06-13T22:15:59 < mawk> eg first byte register, second byte blank, third byte you answer
2019-06-13T22:19:19 < Steffanx> but the doesnt want that
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2019-06-13T22:43:50 < mawk> Steffanx I found a dutch job description but in dutch and I don't speak dutch, can I still apply ?
2019-06-13T22:43:59 < mawk> they all speak english too right
2019-06-13T22:44:20 < mawk> and I have plenty of dutch teachers
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2019-06-13T23:04:59 < friendofafriend> Absolutely apply.
2019-06-13T23:06:49 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-06-13T23:13:44 < mawk> yeah
2019-06-13T23:14:05 < mawk> but I have dutch citizenship, that way they won't think I'm a dirty immigrant stealing their jobs
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2019-06-13T23:15:50 < effractur> mawk: it depens on the region
2019-06-13T23:16:05 < effractur> mawk: if it is in the randstad or eindhoven etc it should not be an issue
2019-06-13T23:16:20 < mawk> it's in delft
2019-06-13T23:16:25 < effractur> that should be fine
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2019-06-13T23:19:00 < mawk> good
2019-06-13T23:19:03 < mawk> thanks
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2019-06-13T23:19:44 < effractur> mawk: the only thing that could be an issue if it is a constumer facing company that most of the internal /external communication / requerments are in dutch
2019-06-13T23:20:20 < mawk> it's a company that makes sensors, so I guess the consumers are going to be enterprise consumers
2019-06-13T23:21:09 < effractur> but in general delft is quite international
2019-06-13T23:21:21 < effractur> because of the university there
2019-06-13T23:21:24 < mawk> yeah
2019-06-13T23:21:28 < mawk> some family lives there
2019-06-13T23:21:30 < mawk> nice city
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2019-06-13T23:56:54 < karlp> mawk: I _could_ but I don't want to! I want to behave like any spi slave peripheral.
2019-06-13T23:57:05 < mawk> yes I see
2019-06-13T23:57:36 < mawk> but so usually SPI commands that directly respond with values from say a register are commands that directly read memory right
2019-06-13T23:57:53 < karlp> I mean, it's all artificial, I'm developing a spi slave to regression test spi master stuff, but it would be nice if I could behave like anything else
2019-06-13T23:58:01 < karlp> yeah, I just want to be able to do a read/write type of thing.
2019-06-13T23:58:02 < mawk> since I guess every slave isn't that fast to have code executing on every spi command to answer, it must be hitting memory without the cpu being involved in all the slaves out there
2019-06-13T23:58:13  * karlp shrugs.
2019-06-13T23:58:21 < mawk> so isn't there like DMA you could do to directly map SPI commands to memory ?
2019-06-13T23:58:24 < karlp> don't really care how _they_ do it, I just want to have an stm32 behave like that.
2019-06-13T23:58:29 < mawk> yeah I see
2019-06-13T23:58:49 < karlp> I don't know what memory is being requested until the first byte arrives... what would yuou setup with dma?
2019-06-13T23:59:47 < mawk> yeah doing directly DMA wouldn't do it, but I mean on other slave devices it must be the spi controller itself that reads memory and answers to commands
--- Day changed Fri Jun 14 2019
2019-06-14T00:14:27 < jly> welcome to ken's labyrinth
2019-06-14T00:15:36 < zyp> karlp, use DMA to set up DMA? :)
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2019-06-14T00:29:07 < karlp> still don't tthink it would be fast enough.
2019-06-14T00:29:15 < karlp> I'm sure it can be done if I can fix up my statemachine right now.
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2019-06-14T00:37:54 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/YI4N9xW
2019-06-14T00:37:56 < bitmask> think it will explode?
2019-06-14T00:40:25 < Cracki> I say no
2019-06-14T00:40:39 < Cracki> forces go with the grain, that'll work
2019-06-14T01:04:27 < upgrdman> <bitmask> think it will explode?
2019-06-14T01:04:27 < upgrdman> <Cracki> I say no
2019-06-14T01:04:53 < upgrdman> how the fuck can you say no without know the loads? it'll be fine at 1RPM. will it be fine at 10000RPM?
2019-06-14T01:05:01 < bitmask> heh
2019-06-14T01:05:12 < upgrdman> stupid fucking nigger
2019-06-14T01:05:16 < upgrdman> ;) j/k of course
2019-06-14T01:05:25 < upgrdman> but ya, wtf, you need to quality that
2019-06-14T01:05:29 < upgrdman> qualify*
2019-06-14T01:06:06 < upgrdman> looks like a decently clean 3d print though. nice job.
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2019-06-14T01:13:21 < bitmask> are puffed up lipos dangerous to use
2019-06-14T01:17:17 < kakimir> my motored 2 wheel has engine that runs
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2019-06-14T01:18:46 < Cracki> attack of the body snatchers or what the hell was that
2019-06-14T01:23:33 < bitmask> well nothing exploded/broke
2019-06-14T01:24:01 < bitmask> at probably around 8k rpm
2019-06-14T01:25:46 < kakimir> does it provide required work at 8krpm?
2019-06-14T01:25:50 < karlp> ^^^
2019-06-14T01:26:12 < kakimir> my motorcycle engine spins at 15krpm
2019-06-14T01:26:13 < bitmask> probably not, this was just a test
2019-06-14T01:26:27 < bitmask> This motor isn't gonna be powerful enough
2019-06-14T01:26:31 < kakimir> and it throws pistons around
2019-06-14T01:26:34 < bitmask> I want to double the size of the impeller too
2019-06-14T01:29:59 < bitmask> well I dunno, I'll see, noise is probably the biggest issue so I'm going to be limited, If I double the size of the impeller, this motor should still be able to spin fast, its a 580KV made for 12-15" props
2019-06-14T01:31:01 < kakimir> Steffanx: https://drive.google.com/file/d/13K0VjE2AYmxwl51lyNkmBqXKG43wveSr/view?usp=sharing
2019-06-14T01:35:39 < kakimir> sorry my phone is stubborn to select right orientation
2019-06-14T01:35:51 < kakimir> to not select right orientation
2019-06-14T01:39:56 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/13SYCQPfb86JAPqwzZg8dcubriryxOwAF/view?usp=sharing this was fun one
2019-06-14T01:40:53 < kakimir> some snake camera action and hammering torx heads to >10cm deep hole while doing it restricted by chassis of the bike
2019-06-14T01:42:26 < kakimir> then turn it out
2019-06-14T01:43:02 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/13Sc34gmTsJ5xdSpD6pQ2POiUhI3Gf2Nf/view?usp=sharing inspecting the progress
2019-06-14T01:47:50 < kakimir> ##workshop32
2019-06-14T01:51:39 < kakimir> ##petrol32
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2019-06-14T03:03:28 < karlp> bitmask: what are you even doing with that impeller?
2019-06-14T03:14:31 < rajkosto> impelling
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2019-06-14T04:38:40 < jadew`> man... things took a turn real fast with my current project
2019-06-14T04:39:33 < jadew`> I received some samples today, finished the prototype and it was working flawlessly
2019-06-14T04:40:12 < jadew`> then I noticed the response changed a little when I mounted the shield, so I started investigating
2019-06-14T04:41:52 < jadew`> managed to fry one mixer with ESD, then I mechanically damaged 3 more
2019-06-14T04:42:43 < jadew`> now the shit that I thought I fixed in this prototype is back again and it makes no freaking sense
2019-06-14T04:46:01 < jadew`> I remember clearly that there was a point during the day when everything I did resulted in the expected outcome and eventually everything worked
2019-06-14T04:46:53 < jadew`> right now I'm not sure if it's shoddy soldering, bad component selection or bad components
2019-06-14T04:48:11 < jadew`> so... I went from 1 prototype away from production, to not even being sure if I need to redesign the board with new components or not
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2019-06-14T05:08:37 < Cracki> this too shall pass
2019-06-14T05:09:13 < jadew`> this project is going on like this for several years
2019-06-14T05:09:28 < jadew`> doesn't feel like it passes
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2019-06-14T11:59:09 < phr3ak> is it possible to change the pin used for jtag/swd? so, for example, using another pin for swdio
2019-06-14T12:07:38 < zyp> no.
2019-06-14T12:08:27 < zyp> you can use the swdio pin for other stuff, but you can't use any other pin for swdio
2019-06-14T12:21:37 < boddax> vdda can be avoid to connect 3.3v ?
2019-06-14T12:26:36 < zyp> no, vdda have to be powered along with vdd
2019-06-14T12:29:32 < boddax> ;)
2019-06-14T12:31:23 < dongs> hmmmmmm
2019-06-14T12:31:46 < dongs> the place i use for enclosures charges a lot for CNC to cut holes in front panels but
2019-06-14T12:31:56 < dongs> im thinking i shoulda just china it up and 
2019-06-14T12:32:01 < dongs> order a PCB with same dimensions
2019-06-14T12:32:05 < dongs> with hoels cut
2019-06-14T12:37:50 < zyp> haha
2019-06-14T12:39:33 < specing> Lol
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2019-06-14T12:54:51 < dongs> i donno it might work
2019-06-14T12:55:12 < dongs> i could verify dimensions and then order real thing in a big order
2019-06-14T12:55:18 < dongs> instead of ordering a bunch of panels that dont fit
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2019-06-14T13:20:08 < jadew`> dongs, you're doing it wrong
2019-06-14T13:20:35 < jadew`> I 3D print front panels to make sure they work
2019-06-14T13:20:59 < jadew`> but yeah, I'm having similar problems with the front panels
2019-06-14T13:21:24 < dongs> i can figure out cutouts for 2 places because one is USB-B and one is a slot that I have control over but
2019-06-14T13:21:40 < dongs> there's 2 more holes that are not exactly lined up and I'd like to test it first
2019-06-14T13:21:55 < jadew`> you don't have a 3d printer?
2019-06-14T13:22:06 < dongs> i do
2019-06-14T13:22:11 < jadew`> it answers that question in 15 minutes
2019-06-14T13:22:18 < dongs> but lol, 3d printing
2019-06-14T13:22:20 < dongs> aids
2019-06-14T13:23:06 < jadew`> I ruined a couple of front panels by trying to drill them myself before I realized I can just 3d print them
2019-06-14T13:23:39 < jadew`> not exactly sure how you can drill a hole 5 mm to the side when using a drill press, but I managed to do just that
2019-06-14T13:23:42 < specing> lol
2019-06-14T13:24:02 < specing> dongs: use the HEP-C filament to print
2019-06-14T13:27:31 < jadew`> dongs, how much are you paying for a front panel?
2019-06-14T13:27:35 < grindhold> i never knew you could make filament of hepatitis c
2019-06-14T13:27:52 < dongs> jadew`: i'm not paiying per each but I can order CNC cutouts when getting enclosures
2019-06-14T13:28:05 < jadew`> ah, no silkscreen?
2019-06-14T13:28:42 < jadew`> I looked into getting them done separately and it was quite expensive
2019-06-14T13:29:06 < dongs> silkscreen, too
2019-06-14T13:29:09 < dongs> they can do whatever
2019-06-14T13:29:11 < jadew`> neat
2019-06-14T13:29:13 < dongs> but it gets dumb quick
2019-06-14T13:29:18 < jadew`> why?
2019-06-14T13:29:32 < dongs> expensive i mean
2019-06-14T13:29:38 < jadew`> ah, right
2019-06-14T13:29:41 < dongs> https://adwecs.jp/w/item/itemImg_93702_1.jpg my current shit is black / orange version like the bottom left
2019-06-14T13:29:58 < jadew`> ah, those are the jap enclosures
2019-06-14T13:30:00 < jadew`> nice
2019-06-14T13:30:01 < dongs> ya
2019-06-14T13:30:03 < jadew`> they have nice printers too IIRC
2019-06-14T13:30:09 < jadew`> (for printing panels)
2019-06-14T13:30:29 < dongs> https://adwecs.jp/w/item/itemImg_93702_2.jpg bottom 3rd
2019-06-14T13:31:42 < Steffanx> What printer does mr jadew`  have?
2019-06-14T13:31:54 < jadew`> Steffanx, the Prusa MK2s
2019-06-14T13:34:44 < qyx> jap enclosures?
2019-06-14T13:34:52 < qyx> dongs: are those clones
2019-06-14T13:35:04 < qyx> or original takachi?
2019-06-14T13:35:36 < qyx> also fischer elektronik makes similar and they cost less
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2019-06-14T14:40:22 < Steffanx> Ah is jadew` happy with it?
2019-06-14T14:45:22 < phr3ak> zyp: thanks. clear.
2019-06-14T14:47:32 < phr3ak> I would like to debug an unknown code and it do something with GPIOA and after that I loose the swd connectivity so i will disable some part of that code.
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2019-06-14T15:07:21 < karlp> hrm, spi output with normal mode, pupshpull and external pullups to 5v, gets me 3.5V signals, but they work ok.
2019-06-14T15:07:28 < karlp> open drain mode I just get zero.
2019-06-14T15:07:33 < dongs> qyx, original
2019-06-14T15:07:36 < karlp> that's... not how it's meant to be
2019-06-14T15:07:39 < dongs> why would i get cloens
2019-06-14T15:12:57 < zyp> karlp, what chip?
2019-06-14T15:13:02 < karlp> l1.
2019-06-14T15:13:29 < karlp> manual says that open drain works in AF mode too, so...
2019-06-14T15:13:37 < zyp> yeah, it should
2019-06-14T15:13:51 < zyp> sounds weird
2019-06-14T15:13:51 < jadew`> Steffanx, I'm very happy with it
2019-06-14T15:14:36 < jadew`> I don't have what to compare it with, but it works fine I think
2019-06-14T15:15:32 < jadew`> karlp, why is it not how it's meant to be?
2019-06-14T15:15:35 < jadew`> sounds about right
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2019-06-14T15:16:06 < karlp> in opendrain mode I expec tto get a 0-5V spi signal
2019-06-14T15:16:11 < jadew`> oh, I see
2019-06-14T15:16:16 < jadew`> yeah
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2019-06-14T15:16:20 < karlp> and instead I get a flat zero, not even an insufficient level
2019-06-14T15:16:50 < jadew`> karlp, even when you send data?
2019-06-14T15:16:54 < jadew`> maybe it's inverted?
2019-06-14T15:16:59 < karlp> yeah, evne when I send.
2019-06-14T15:17:20 < karlp> just changing the pin mode from PP to OD makes it go from "I can see a spi clock, but it's only 3.5V" to "I just see a flat line"
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2019-06-14T15:18:02 < zyp> what level do you get when you set the pin to input mode?
2019-06-14T15:18:14 < zyp> seems like a useful sanity check at this point
2019-06-14T15:19:03 < karlp> ok, I found it, fucking rewired the scope and it now has a more OD looking sharkfin waves, but 3.3V still. 
2019-06-14T15:19:12 < karlp> ok, at least I'm getting fucking waves again.
2019-06-14T15:19:43  * karlp double checks what image is running first.
2019-06-14T15:20:16 < jadew`> 3.3 V doesn't sound right, even if clipped, it should be above VCC
2019-06-14T15:21:33 < karlp> no, I was on the wrong file.  still nothing when in OD mode.
2019-06-14T15:22:02 < karlp> think it's time to gdb that I'm getting the right values in the registers
2019-06-14T15:22:07 < jadew`> make it a regular IO and output something
2019-06-14T15:22:10 < jadew`> 1 and 0
2019-06-14T15:22:12 < jadew`> and see if it works
2019-06-14T15:22:51 < zyp> and check input mode
2019-06-14T15:22:51 < karlp> yeah, will do that from gdb.
2019-06-14T15:22:56 < qyx> Multistage deep well submersible pump is consisted of multistage deep well pump.
2019-06-14T15:22:58 < qyx> oh
2019-06-14T15:23:02 < qyx> yeah, I hget it
2019-06-14T15:23:31 < karlp> zyp:I see 5V on the pin when it's in the bootloader and the spi periph isn't inititd, so that sounds right. that's input mode by defualt at reset.
2019-06-14T15:24:26 < qyx> karlp: if L1 gpio is the same as F1, I had a similar problem in the past
2019-06-14T15:25:00 < zyp> L1 is GPIOv2, F1 is v1
2019-06-14T15:25:25 < qyx> then I said nothing
2019-06-14T15:25:36 < jadew`> this one is a different kind of broken
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2019-06-14T16:27:20 < zyp> some of my coworkes are doing some side project and they got me to draw up an opamp schematic a while ago to do some signal massaging
2019-06-14T16:27:48 < zyp> now they're complaining their opamp died, so I got asked to take a look at why
2019-06-14T16:28:25 < boddax> when and where the opamp funeral?
2019-06-14T16:29:02 < zyp> shit's foot pedal operated, and the 24V rail to the main circuitry, including the opamp, is switched through the foot pedal
2019-06-14T16:29:11 < boddax> overvoltage
2019-06-14T16:29:15 < zyp> this is how the 24V rail looks when it gets switched off: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/PiGLN.jpg
2019-06-14T16:29:40 < dongs> 10V/div?
2019-06-14T16:29:47 < boddax> 45v p-p ?
2019-06-14T16:29:52 < dongs> heh
2019-06-14T16:30:10 < zyp> dongs, yes, 24V after all
2019-06-14T16:30:18 < dongs> they need some audiophile-quality opamps
2019-06-14T16:30:48 < zyp> signal doesn't matter, but still
2019-06-14T16:31:37 < zyp> I suggested moving the opamp to constant 24V
2019-06-14T16:35:23 < boddax> add somethinh like crow-bar protection at the input ..many old amplifier design has it
2019-06-14T16:37:00 < zyp> this is super simple shit, doesn't even have a PCB
2019-06-14T16:37:18 < boddax> look like psu problem
2019-06-14T16:37:57 < karlp> ok, if I set my pins to plain output, open drain, and set them high, I get 5V on the output. that's good.
2019-06-14T16:37:58 < boddax> can make crowbar with bunch of components
2019-06-14T16:38:29 < boddax> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowbar_(circuit)
2019-06-14T16:39:03 < englishman> all that 20v usb-c stuff really increased the amount of 50v transient tolerant parts, super handy
2019-06-14T16:39:19 < boddax> have a defect need to remove power to rest
2019-06-14T16:39:57 < englishman> when I shut off the hakko at work all my usb devices disconnect
2019-06-14T16:40:02 < englishman> fucking jap trash
2019-06-14T16:41:02 < boddax> englishman optoisolator with data lines can solve? 
2019-06-14T16:46:01 < englishman> what
2019-06-14T16:46:09 < englishman> how does that solve the problem of shit hakko
2019-06-14T16:46:30 < englishman> that's applying bandaids while being shot at
2019-06-14T16:47:53 < boddax> eheh
2019-06-14T17:08:27 < karlp> hrm, looks like 10k pullup is just not strong enough
2019-06-14T17:11:11 < karlp> turned spi speed wayyyy down, and started seeing realllly slow rise times.
2019-06-14T17:11:18 < karlp> had to go suppper slow though
2019-06-14T17:11:34 < karlp> I ugess that's what OD does though, makes it i2c shitslow
2019-06-14T17:13:08 < jpa-> remove the parasitic capacitors
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2019-06-14T17:15:12 < karlp> it's ~20mm straight form the stm32 pin to the input pin on the other device straight across the pcb.
2019-06-14T17:16:07 < jpa-> that sounds like the io pin capacitances would dominate, so about 10pF; which should result in rise times of about 0.2µs or so
2019-06-14T17:18:46 < karlp> at 500khz, I get a slow rise over 1us reaching 2.9V, before back to zero for the low half of the clock.
2019-06-14T17:19:44 < karlp> at 250khz spi clock, I get slow rise over 2us reaching 3.8V.
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2019-06-14T17:21:05 < karlp> with 1k pullups instead of 10k it's better, but not nearly enough better.
2019-06-14T17:21:14 < karlp> I can't run spi at 250khz that's garbage
2019-06-14T17:22:34 < ville> i am looking to do some one-off devices for my self, and wondering what kind of microcontrollers might be suitable. the devices would be joystick-like, reading some sensors and relaying axis values back to the pc over usb. i was thinking maybe one of these https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/search.html#q=nucleo-32-t=tools-page=1 would be suitable. any words of wisdom?
2019-06-14T17:24:39 < PaulFertser> ville: I have some stupid code for the "blue pill" https://github.com/paulfertser/stm32-tx-hid
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2019-06-14T17:27:16 < ville> PaulFertser: software is the part i am interested in writing my self. i am just trying to find reasonably suitable hardware. i've no clue what's what when it comes to these microcontrollers
2019-06-14T17:30:19 < PaulFertser> ville: if you have no experience with microcontrollers I'd suggest some disco board rather than a nucleo.
2019-06-14T17:32:04 < ville> quick search would indicate "disco boards" to be fairly large. i do have some size constraits and the arduino micro/nucleo-32 fits that
2019-06-14T17:32:26 < PaulFertser> ville: a blue pill is even smaller
2019-06-14T17:33:13 < PaulFertser> ville: if you get a disco board you can use it to prototype and play with already available external peripherals etc, and then you can use it as a debug adapter to flash other targets.
2019-06-14T17:33:43 < ville> as i understand i should be able to flash the nucleo-32 over its usb connector?
2019-06-14T17:34:59 < PaulFertser> Well, yes
2019-06-14T17:35:34 < ville> sounds like there is a but?
2019-06-14T17:36:30 < PaulFertser> ville: after you integrate it inside your device you effectively loose its debugger, as you won't be able to use it for anything else.
2019-06-14T17:37:39 < ville> i am going to design and 3d print the case so i should be able to add some kind of access port
2019-06-14T17:39:57 < ville> how are the development tools for these under linux?
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2019-06-14T17:41:16 < PaulFertser> ville: OpenOCD works about the same on all common OSes.
2019-06-14T17:41:31 < PaulFertser> ville: and GCC-based toolchain too.
2019-06-14T17:42:33 < ville> ideally i could just cross-compile and invoke some program to flash the device rather than use "specialty ide"
2019-06-14T17:43:29 < PaulFertser> ville: you seem to be underestimating the usefulness of using a debugger (for stepping, inspecting, breakpointing etc)
2019-06-14T17:43:43 < PaulFertser> ville: IDE is not needed if you're comfortable with GDB cli.
2019-06-14T17:47:47 < ville> if gdb can debug code running on the device then i should be able to get my regular ide to hopefully control that
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2019-06-14T17:49:30 < ville> so anyways is there anything particularly unsuitable in the above devices for the task i vaguely described?
2019-06-14T17:52:54 < PaulFertser> ville: just check the target microcontroller has all the necessary peripherals integrated. You didn't tell how many ADC inputs you need, what resolution, speed etc.
2019-06-14T17:53:06 < MrMobius> ville, they can be a real pain to set up. it took forever to get the USB->serial stuff working on my discovery board since the supplied set up and example code were all wrong back when I tried in 2014. it's probably less shit now
2019-06-14T17:53:45 < MrMobius> the good side is if you can get things working, you can do high performance stuff or cheaper stuff with stm. not so with AVR for example even if it might be easier in some ways
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2019-06-14T17:54:52 < PaulFertser> MrMobius: just do not rely on the ST shit libraries ;)
2019-06-14T17:55:43 < MrMobius> sound advice
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2019-06-14T17:56:48 < Thorn> thankfully ST libraries are not unavoidable unlike e.g. Nordick SDK
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2019-06-14T17:57:06 < Thorn> there're several alternative USB stacks for example
2019-06-14T17:59:22 < ville> PaulFertser: first device is to relay, possibly do the fusing on the device, readings from something like: https://www.adafruit.com/product/3463 to the pc
2019-06-14T18:01:22 < ville> PaulFertser: second device is rudder pedals, which is basically 3-axis joystick
2019-06-14T18:02:00 < PaulFertser> ville: that sounds like any generic microcontroller can handle.
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2019-06-14T18:02:27 < ville> i haven't really worked out the exact details of how "fast" one has to run those, i was hoping experience will show once i get sme hardware
2019-06-14T18:04:53 < ville> PaulFertser: yeah it shouldn't be particularly demanding. the devices i linked to seemed fairly cheap and i can get them locally so that seemed like a good deal
2019-06-14T18:05:53 < ville> MrMobius: setup on which side? on the board or on your development machine?
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2019-06-14T18:13:22 < boddax> https://www.digitalelectronicsdeeds.com/index.html nice freeware circuit simulator with fpga integrated support
2019-06-14T18:16:02 < MrMobius> ville, on the board. it was a lot more complicated to get the peripherals going, especially USB, than something like an MSP430 (which doesnt have USB)
2019-06-14T18:16:44 < ville> MrMobius: poor documentation, poor hardware or?
2019-06-14T18:17:04 < MrMobius> if its a one-off, you can go with an ftdi cable to do the USB->serial for you and just pick a cheap microcontroller so you dont have to mess with USB peripherals
2019-06-14T18:18:41 < MrMobius> not poor hardware but the stm board I have is a lot more capable than the msp430 one i have so its natural that it would be more complicated to get going
2019-06-14T18:19:03 < ville> if i've good documentation then i'm ok with writing the code - famous last words...
2019-06-14T18:21:30 < MrMobius> its not really writing code. there is no room for creativity. you just have to activate and enable tings correctly. either it works or it doesnt
2019-06-14T18:26:54 < Thorn> there is a whole lot of creative solutions involved if you have nontrivial problems to solve
2019-06-14T18:30:19 < MrMobius> i mean there is no creativity in peripheral set up code
2019-06-14T18:30:32 < qyx> of course there is
2019-06-14T18:30:38 < qyx> as Thorn says
2019-06-14T18:30:56 < qyx> there are bambillions of combinations and gating and internal triggers and signals and stuff
2019-06-14T18:31:25 < qyx> there are like 4 or 5 ways of receiving a bitstream over SPI for example
2019-06-14T18:31:33 < qyx> each involving a different configuration
2019-06-14T18:32:07 < Thorn> you don't get to choose fonts & colors unlike when coding html lol but there's a lot of non-obvious stuff going on in any real project that an engineer would appreciate
2019-06-14T18:33:27 < qyx> another example, opamps, comparators, ADCs and DACs, many analol routing possibilities
2019-06-14T18:34:36 < Thorn> one more example: how many ways can you generate the ws2812 signal?
2019-06-14T18:35:05 < Thorn> gpio+timers+dma, spi+dma, uart+dma, ...
2019-06-14T18:36:23 < MrMobius> yes but that is a little different. not to be overanalytical here but that is being creative with which peripherals you choose to use. it is not like there are all kinds of equally valid codes to get the same result once youve settled on one of those options
2019-06-14T18:36:34 < Thorn> how about that PDM microphone stuff on a MCU without PDM support 
2019-06-14T18:36:58 < qyx> yeah
2019-06-14T18:37:15 < qyx> spi in 4 ways, SAI in another 2 or 3 ways
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2019-06-14T18:37:54 < qyx> even if you fukup miso/mosi, you can fix that using different config
2019-06-14T18:38:25 < Thorn> (btw I just received my microphones, time to solder them and try that method that I learned from qyx)
2019-06-14T18:38:44 < qyx> did you?
2019-06-14T18:39:09 < qyx> I don't even remember
2019-06-14T18:39:27 < qyx> I managed to do codec2 compression in realtime with L4 overclocked to 140MHz or so
2019-06-14T18:39:38 < qyx> worked great
2019-06-14T18:41:56 < Thorn> and if your design needs to be low power, that's a whole another level of creativity
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2019-06-14T19:20:56  * karlp decides to sleep on spi open drain outs for the weekend.
2019-06-14T19:21:06 < karlp> no clue why they're don't, "just work"
2019-06-14T19:25:22 < karlp> unrelated, what does one do with a one port usb hub chip? USB4712?
2019-06-14T19:26:04 < karlp> hrm, datasheet is more informatinve than product page, talks about it as being for retiming and allowing you to have longer runs, for automtovie shitz
2019-06-14T19:31:14 < karlp> huh, nice though, finally uses hub commands to give you usb2spi/usb2i2c/usb2uart on same device
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2019-06-14T19:50:56 < karlp> g4 has fun errata.
2019-06-14T19:52:39 < karlp> still some of the same errata on periphs since l1
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2019-06-14T19:59:07 < effractur>  /win 158
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2019-06-14T21:02:09 < Steffanx> no pics of prints jadew`?
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2019-06-14T21:08:23 < englishman> found another quality zyp install https://i.imgur.com/20Sief8.jpg
2019-06-14T21:09:06 < Steffanx> :)
2019-06-14T21:11:00 < Steffanx> zyp doesnt use bad language.
2019-06-14T21:11:01 < catphish> :)
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2019-06-14T21:12:28 < zyp> news to me
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2019-06-14T21:21:24 < qyx> any recent zyphouse pictures?
2019-06-14T21:21:24 < Steffanx> damn it, zyp
2019-06-14T21:21:37 < Steffanx> browse ikea.no :P
2019-06-14T21:21:48 < qyx> how are your paving stones?
2019-06-14T21:22:00 < zyp> still in a stack next to the entrance
2019-06-14T21:22:51 < zyp> need to get a load of stones so I can put down an even layer to lay them on
2019-06-14T21:23:06 < zyp> and I haven't gotten around to doing that yet, weather's been bad lately
2019-06-14T21:23:43 < zyp> haven't really done much since I put up the shelves
2019-06-14T21:23:51 < zyp> except moving stuff into the shelves
2019-06-14T21:24:01 < qyx> here it was ~30°C the last week
2019-06-14T21:24:06 < qyx> no rain :S
2019-06-14T21:24:33 < qyx> extremely dry, nearly all strawberries dried
2019-06-14T21:26:05 < Steffanx> dutchland must be between you two than, it's been bad and good.
2019-06-14T21:32:25 < Steffanx> Why didnt you give them water qyx?
2019-06-14T21:32:42 < Steffanx> or is water more expensive than beer over there?
2019-06-14T21:33:20 < qyx> I am watering them ever evening
2019-06-14T21:33:24 < qyx> ok, except today
2019-06-14T21:33:35 < Steffanx> ah and they still died.
2019-06-14T21:33:43 < Steffanx> *dried
2019-06-14T21:33:44 < Steffanx> lol
2019-06-14T21:34:16 < qyx> yeah both
2019-06-14T21:34:26 < qyx> but still we got about 20kg of them
2019-06-14T21:34:59 < boddax> 41°C peak at 2pm
2019-06-14T21:38:52 < Steffanx> yay
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2019-06-14T22:12:19 < upgrdman> in c, can a struct be initialized in it's declaration? like you can do "int i = 69;" but can you do "struct { int a = 2; int b = 3;} myStruct;" ?
2019-06-14T22:12:30 < mawk> yes
2019-06-14T22:12:45 < mawk> be declared in its initialization, you mean
2019-06-14T22:12:46 < mawk> yes
2019-06-14T22:13:03 < mawk> or defined in its declaration rather; then initialization is optional
2019-06-14T22:13:17 < mawk> it can be anonymous, or not
2019-06-14T22:13:28 < upgrdman> k
2019-06-14T22:13:31 < mawk> ah but no you don't initialize like that I misread
2019-06-14T22:13:37 < mawk> I didn't see the =
2019-06-14T22:13:48 < mawk> struct { int a; int b; } myStruct = {.a = 2, .b = 3};
2019-06-14T22:13:50 < mawk> like this upgrdman 
2019-06-14T22:14:10 < upgrdman> ah ya so that's how. cool
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2019-06-14T22:26:57 < zyp> typing a crazy long smtp password on the printer touchscreen was kinda annoying, turns out it works to just plug a usb keyboard into the printer
2019-06-14T22:52:15 < englishman> engineering probably put it in to debug their own shit
2019-06-14T22:52:35 < englishman> :)
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2019-06-14T23:02:31 < qyx> propbably they were not bothered to remove drivers
2019-06-14T23:04:59 < Steffanx> The standard lunix image stuff supplied my the chip manufacturer came with it, so ....
2019-06-14T23:08:24 < Cracki> those things are probably running linux or something
2019-06-14T23:09:05 < Cracki> why bother to remove HID driver, that can be sold as a feature :P
2019-06-14T23:12:14 < Cracki> nice C feature is struct literals: (struct foo) { .field = value, .field = value }
2019-06-14T23:12:17 < Cracki> does c++ have that yet?
2019-06-14T23:12:53 < Cracki> I think they had some excuses as to why even struct initializers with named unordered optional member inits weren't "possible"
2019-06-14T23:13:41 < mawk> it doesn't work in C++ if unordered or with holes iirc
2019-06-14T23:18:45 -!- rajkosto [~Rajko@cable-178-149-122-110.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2019-06-14T23:18:54 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-06-14T23:19:26 < Cracki> at least they've finally discovered modules. it's the 21st century ffs
2019-06-14T23:20:05 < ville> accepted to c++20: http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2017/p0329r4.pdf
2019-06-14T23:23:50 < Cracki> damn, now I can't detest them
2019-06-14T23:25:06 < Thorn> c++ can't have real modules like ada, modula, etc.
2019-06-14T23:25:21 < Cracki> those are wirthian horrors
2019-06-14T23:26:04 < zyp> Thorn is gatekeeping modules
2019-06-14T23:26:45 < Cracki> wait, they still enforce order even in that proposal? or am I reading this wrong
2019-06-14T23:27:06 < Cracki> what's the fucking point of that
2019-06-14T23:27:07 < Thorn> Wirth is the only one who knows how to design languages properly
2019-06-14T23:28:03 < Thorn> >While the chips support SPI, they don't tri-state the MISO pin
2019-06-14T23:28:18 < Cracki> I'm beginning to think being "good" at language design means losing your sense of reality
2019-06-14T23:28:35 < Cracki> lolwat
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2019-06-14T23:28:49 < Cracki> do they support chipselect?
2019-06-14T23:29:34 < Thorn> do not know yet
2019-06-14T23:29:41 < Cracki> some slaves get their own SPI bus... there it's excusable
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2019-06-14T23:31:25 < Thorn> >The device features a selectable I2C or *point-to-point* SPI serial interface (italicized in the datasheet)
2019-06-14T23:32:08 < specing> Thorn: the other one is Jean Ichbiah
2019-06-14T23:32:16 < specing> Thorn: (the creator of Ada)
2019-06-14T23:32:56 < Thorn> my impression is Ada is a dialect of one of the Wirth languages
2019-06-14T23:33:05 < zyp> Thorn, my power measurement board is also like that
2019-06-14T23:33:36 < zyp> chip tristates MISO, but I don't propagate tristate through the isolator chip, output of that is always enabled
2019-06-14T23:34:12 < Thorn> LSI is the only RC oscillator in L0 without a calibration feature, WTF ST
2019-06-14T23:35:01 < Thorn> and ±50% accuracy
2019-06-14T23:35:23 < zyp> well, duh
2019-06-14T23:35:33 < zyp> LSI has always been terrible in every chip
2019-06-14T23:36:01 < Thorn> and the only one (other than LSE) that runs in deep sleep modes
2019-06-14T23:36:01 < zyp> it's useless for anything other than IWDG
2019-06-14T23:36:17 < zyp> well, duh
2019-06-14T23:36:29 < Thorn> and I didn't implement LSE :/
2019-06-14T23:37:12 < zyp> what do you need an oscillator during deep sleep for anyway? if you needed RTC you'd obviously do LSE
2019-06-14T23:37:32 < zyp> and for IWDG you don't really need accuracy
2019-06-14T23:37:53 < zyp> what else can be clocked during deep sleep?
2019-06-14T23:38:08 < Thorn> RTC
2019-06-14T23:38:38 < Thorn> maybe I can clock the chip from MSI at low frequency instead and simply WFI and get ~50µA (< 100) that way
2019-06-14T23:38:43 < zyp> what use is RTC without LSE?
2019-06-14T23:38:45 < Thorn> that will be enough for me
2019-06-14T23:38:57 < zyp> just wakeups, not timekeeping?
2019-06-14T23:39:23 < Thorn> yeah that is what I was planning to use it for anyway
2019-06-14T23:39:54 < zyp> well, you can
2019-06-14T23:39:58 < zyp> if you don't need accuracy :p
2019-06-14T23:40:15 < zyp> and you already opted out of accuracy when you skipped LSE
2019-06-14T23:40:27 < Thorn> I kind of do because I need to keep track of beacon interval
2019-06-14T23:40:49 < Thorn> so I can wake up just in time to listen to a beacon and go back to sleep
2019-06-14T23:41:38 < zyp> ah, radio stuff
2019-06-14T23:42:22 < zyp> stm32wb includes a LSI2 that's supposed to be better and tuneable, still kept the old one as LSI1
2019-06-14T23:42:35 < zyp> IIRC errata sheet said something about it not being usable though :p
2019-06-14T23:50:53 < qyx> Thorn: I got around 90uA at 1V8 with 400kHz MSI /4
2019-06-14T23:51:02 < qyx> with wfi
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2019-06-14T23:53:21 < Thorn> why couldn't they connect MSI to the RTC mux?
2019-06-14T23:59:32 < qyx> just use LSI and calibrate it in software
2019-06-14T23:59:47 < qyx> if it is a beaconing tree, it is doable
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2019-06-15T03:45:07 < Tefx> Yo guys i have a wierd one to throw out there i have a vape device that uses the exsact same board as another device now my device has had most of its firmwares options disabled for no reall reason other than the company that licenced the use of the board were fuckign dumbasses now im trying to see if theres any substantial differences and what id need to change to get the firmware to flash on my device onyl issue is i cant figure 
2019-06-15T03:45:07 < Tefx> out how to get my device in DFU mode and the firmware for the other device seems to be mildly encrypted
2019-06-15T03:45:07 < Tefx>  and like its almoist certainyl only base64 encoded and maybe bit shifted but atm what id liek is to know if theres any way to force dfu mode
2019-06-15T03:45:07 < Tefx>  without having to open the device
2019-06-15T03:47:26 < Tefx> https://drive.google.com/open?id=10G-xj8-X4GyayYgAvRf7OVqU2fSDTFwK << this is the firmware from the device that should have all the options enabled it is a .tmyx but it will open in 7zip or winrar its just a zip archive inside is a info.json sig.bin and /rom has 2.hex and 4.hex
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2019-06-15T03:55:43 < Cracki> *how much* the same are those boards
2019-06-15T03:56:06 < Cracki> compare labels/lettering on individual components
2019-06-15T03:56:49 < Tefx> both devcies use the omni board v4 the device that firmware is from is the Vaporesso Armour Pro  and my device which im looking to install the firmware to is the Revenant Delta 
2019-06-15T03:57:06 < Tefx> erm identicle from everythign ive dug up
2019-06-15T03:57:08 < Cracki> you haven't even said if what you have uses stm32
2019-06-15T03:57:25 < Cracki> what the hell is an "omni board v4"
2019-06-15T03:57:32 < Tefx> from my understandign its stm32
2019-06-15T03:57:39 < Tefx> im currently installign linux in a vm
2019-06-15T03:57:43 < Tefx> to sanity checkl my findings
2019-06-15T03:58:01 < Cracki> so identify what stm32 it is exactly
2019-06-15T03:58:05 < Tefx> its a board built for vaping devices made by vaperesso
2019-06-15T03:58:12 < Cracki> I got that much
2019-06-15T03:58:18 < Tefx> i will do
2019-06-15T03:58:25 < Tefx> sorry i shoudl waitied till i had full info
2019-06-15T03:58:55 < Tefx> ill see what i can fidn out im just tyrign to avoid openign the device up as to atleast keep the warrenty somehwat intact
2019-06-15T03:59:07 < Cracki> uh so how does the firmware update work normally
2019-06-15T04:01:26 < Cracki> if the firmware update isn't made for that device, it might just refuse the update
2019-06-15T04:02:48 < Cracki> I would think that they've enabled programming protection so _maybe_ you can erase the chip but then you'd need unencrypted firmware to put on it
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2019-06-15T04:07:21 < Cracki> that weird not-zip file with the json in it, *what* program eats that?
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2019-06-15T04:19:44 < Tefx> ermm https://drive.google.com/open?id=10G-xj8-X4GyayYgAvRf7OVqU2fSDTFwK
2019-06-15T04:19:50 < Tefx> that includes the file i intialy sent
2019-06-15T04:19:55 < Tefx> but thats the full software package
2019-06-15T04:19:59 < Tefx> but its windows only :(
2019-06-15T04:21:21 < Tefx> but yeah the software take the tmyx file checks that json i think to see what device it is and if the device deosent match the device thats connected it fails id assume i havent deared click download till i can check for certain that it will work correctly
2019-06-15T04:21:34 < Tefx> but id liek to no how that software puts the device in DFU mode
2019-06-15T04:21:48 < Tefx> so i can then atleast attempot to dump the current firmware on my device and make comparisons
2019-06-15T04:22:50 < Tefx> Cracki, dfu-util spits this error https://pastebin.com/9TQCCwwu
2019-06-15T04:23:07 < Tefx> which leads me to think its sees a device capable of dfu but obviously isnt in dfu mode
2019-06-15T04:23:10 < Cracki> ok, windows, good
2019-06-15T04:23:34 < Cracki> you already know "DFU". open the device manager. does your kajigger show up as "something DFU something" in there or not
2019-06-15T04:23:50 < Tefx> im installing a linux vm currently to passthroguh the device and see if i can get anythign of the usb data stream
2019-06-15T04:24:25 < Cracki> you can bet that dumping firmware is not gonna be allowed
2019-06-15T04:24:29 < Tefx> thats the thing Device manger refresh when i pluig or unplug the device but i can find a single thign that looks new or relatign to dfu or stmicro
2019-06-15T04:24:34 < Tefx> but i know its an stmicro device
2019-06-15T04:24:54 < Tefx> well chip
2019-06-15T04:24:57 < Cracki> doesn't mean that it'll show up as "stm"
2019-06-15T04:25:15 < Cracki> expand a few trees that might house it
2019-06-15T04:25:43 < Cracki> you need to understand, encrypted firmware isn't decrypted on the host. it's decrypted on the device itself.
2019-06-15T04:25:49 < Cracki> if that shit is done right
2019-06-15T04:25:58 < Tefx> ive got everythign expanded heh hense im installign linux as lsusb will make it a dman site easier to see it
2019-06-15T04:26:09 < Cracki> AND microcontrollers have readout protection, so you can't dump anything if they activated that
2019-06-15T04:26:19 < Cracki> sniffing usb traffic won't help
2019-06-15T04:26:20 < Tefx> yeah i know
2019-06-15T04:26:27 < Tefx> im just tyrign my luck
2019-06-15T04:26:31 < Tefx> and seeign if i get lucky
2019-06-15T04:26:50 < Cracki> best chances would be to find a forum where owners have looked into this already
2019-06-15T04:27:18 < Cracki> until you've opened the device up and seen the chip with your own eyes, it's all just dicking around
2019-06-15T04:27:56 < Thorn> 1GHz from Siglent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxu19IFHMgc
2019-06-15T04:28:20 < Tefx> yeah theres not much out there unfortunatly as it seem the ones with the intention of trying to work it out have not botherd in the end or nubs just stright tryign to flash that firmware i sent you on it
2019-06-15T04:28:31 < Tefx> which they nevber informed weatehr it worked or not
2019-06-15T04:28:41 < Tefx> henmse i havent dare click it just incase it satrst and bricks
2019-06-15T04:29:04 < Tefx> also appolgise for my typing i have a bad habbit of not proof reading and my keyboards been a prick
2019-06-15T04:30:08 < Cracki> Thorn, is that particularly surprising? looks solid
2019-06-15T04:30:31 < Cracki> is it hackable
2019-06-15T04:33:28 < Thorn> uint32_t const next_beacon_timestamp = last_beacon_timestamp + ((now - last_beacon_timestamp) / beacon_interval + 1) * beacon_interval;
2019-06-15T04:33:33 < Thorn> can you simplify this
2019-06-15T04:36:20 < Cracki> wolfram alpha?
2019-06-15T04:36:31 < Cracki> are all those uint32?
2019-06-15T04:36:46 < Thorn> yes, so division is actually floor()
2019-06-15T04:36:57 < Cracki> k
2019-06-15T04:36:59 < Thorn> otherwise it simplifies quite a lot lol
2019-06-15T04:37:06 < Cracki> brb mathematicaing
2019-06-15T04:37:29 < Cracki> it says "now + beacon_interval"
2019-06-15T04:37:46 < Cracki> so you're wanting to round down to multiples of more than 1, I take it
2019-06-15T04:37:51 < Thorn> yeah that's what I got on paper without taking the floor() into account
2019-06-15T04:37:54 < Cracki> modulo and subtraction can certainly do that
2019-06-15T04:39:16 < Cracki> so you wanna round it towards an absolute grid, eh?
2019-06-15T04:39:53 < Thorn> well the grid is defined by last_beacon_timestamp + N * beacon_interval
2019-06-15T04:39:59 < Cracki> it's c, so negative number modulo something is again negative...
2019-06-15T04:40:39 < Cracki> how much can there be between last and now?
2019-06-15T04:40:44 < Cracki> can that ever be more than one interval?
2019-06-15T04:41:26 < Cracki> why not just next = last + interval?
2019-06-15T04:43:02 < Thorn> yes there can be > 1 interval
2019-06-15T04:43:05 < Cracki> ic
2019-06-15T04:43:29 < Cracki> I kinda hate modulo semantics in C
2019-06-15T04:45:07 < Cracki> in this case it can be exploited
2019-06-15T04:45:11 < Cracki> -12 % 10 == -2
2019-06-15T04:45:45 < Cracki> try this: next = last + ((last - now) % interval) * -interval
2019-06-15T04:45:54 < Cracki> % should be /
2019-06-15T04:46:28 < Cracki> -15 % 10 == -5, -15 / 10 = -2
2019-06-15T04:47:06 < Cracki> nvm, I'm wrong about it
2019-06-15T04:51:34 < englishman> Thorn: Russia has nice stamps
2019-06-15T04:53:00 < Cracki> what if exactly now == last + k*interval? do you want next to be now, or now+interval?
2019-06-15T04:54:52 < Cracki> this is identical to your expression afaict: now + interval + (last - now) % interval
2019-06-15T04:55:01 < Thorn> that can be dealt with by an extra check
2019-06-15T04:57:59 < Thorn> yeah it actually looks correct
2019-06-15T04:58:32 < Thorn> what is Mr. englishman talking about? postage stamps?
2019-06-15T04:58:37 < englishman> yes
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2019-06-15T05:00:01 < Cracki> I'm with pen and scrap paper rn
2019-06-15T05:03:41 < Cracki> this uses the weird semantics of C division/modulo (negative modulo x is again negative), which other languages don't do, so this'll not translate easily
2019-06-15T05:06:26 < Thorn> now + interval * 2 - (now - last) % interval  seems to be identical
2019-06-15T05:06:44 < Cracki> oh, since those are uints, you better flip some signs, so it's now - (now-last)%interval
2019-06-15T05:07:00 < Cracki> not sure about interval*2
2019-06-15T05:07:21 < Cracki> I'm playing with signed integers. unsigned might cause funny wraparounds
2019-06-15T05:07:37 < Thorn> actually no need to * 2
2019-06-15T05:08:33 < Thorn> unless I want several intervals into the future
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2019-06-15T05:11:04 < Cracki> I guess this expression can't be simplified all that much
2019-06-15T05:11:50 < Cracki> for playing, I ended up with int int nfloor(x, m) { return (x/m) * m; }
2019-06-15T05:12:17 < Cracki> and that's equal to x - (x%m
2019-06-15T05:12:19 < Cracki> )
2019-06-15T05:13:26 < Cracki> so that's how that "simplifies"
2019-06-15T05:19:23 < dongs> found out where upgrdman works
2019-06-15T05:19:24 < dongs> Panasonic Home Appliances Co., Ltd.
2019-06-15T05:19:24 < dongs> 898 Long Dong Road, Pu Dong, Shanghai, China
2019-06-15T05:19:54 < dongs> his dong is so long they named a whole road after him
2019-06-15T05:20:01 < dongs> y/y/y
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2019-06-15T07:05:21 < dongs> does stm32flash skip FF's in input hex
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2019-06-15T07:22:02 < boddax> making custom pill then looking at some gugol schematic wich has 100k resistor boot1 and boot0 ..isn't that too much high value?
2019-06-15T07:22:41 < dongs> doesnt matter. use 10k
2019-06-15T07:23:09 < boddax> ok thanks dongs
2019-06-15T07:33:10 < aandrew> I don't like using too high a resistance
2019-06-15T07:33:37 < dongs> unless i have 100k in bom already even if something is asking for 100 and its obvious dumb pullup, 10k is going there
2019-06-15T07:33:45 < dongs> same when a thing wants 47k or whatever
2019-06-15T07:37:18 < jpa-> i've had trouble with 1M for NRST when connecting debugger cable; the capacitance was enough to cause a spike that reset the STM32
2019-06-15T07:39:52 < dongs> why did you haev 1M there? battery power/
2019-06-15T07:40:14 < jpa-> same as you, had it in BOM for something else IIRC
2019-06-15T07:40:26 < dongs> you dont need external pullup on nrst unless you're in noisy environment
2019-06-15T07:40:31 < dongs> there's an internal ~50k iirc
2019-06-15T07:41:00 < jpa-> yeah, i guess external capacitor might be more effective to fix the accidental resets
2019-06-15T07:41:41 < jpa-> i think some appnote even recommends that
2019-06-15T07:45:01 < dongs> and besides you dont need nrst out to debug connector anyhow
2019-06-15T07:45:11 < dongs> unless you're planning on trashing shit that requires connecting under reset
2019-06-15T07:45:25 < dongs> under normal circumstance io+clk is enough
2019-06-15T07:45:47 < jpa-> only until you get into power saving modes
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2019-06-15T08:36:57 < jadew`> Thorn, that scope looks pretty buggy
2019-06-15T08:37:04 < jadew`> good price tho
2019-06-15T08:39:02 < jadew`> rigol's mso8000 looks more promising, but it'll probably be a little more expensive
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2019-06-15T08:58:34 < boddax> when on the market riglol mso8000 ?
2019-06-15T09:10:02 < boddax> time to replace my old HP54720D that need calibration ..hard to find the module to calibrate it
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2019-06-15T11:48:27 < Steffanx> Hello
2019-06-15T11:48:48 < jly> hello there i'm on the internet
2019-06-15T11:49:09 < Steffanx> Is this your first day?
2019-06-15T11:50:26 < jly> yeah i got the modem
2019-06-15T11:50:56 < Steffanx> Did you enjoy the dail in beeps?
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2019-06-15T11:51:14 < jly> nah it is 4G mate
2019-06-15T11:55:27 < jly> Steffanx: have you got the count for this month?
2019-06-15T11:56:37 < Steffanx> Sorry, I dont know.
2019-06-15T11:56:48 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
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2019-06-15T12:05:56 < jadew`> who has one of those cheap CNCs?
2019-06-15T12:07:03 < jadew`> how fast can it eat a chunk of say... 50 x 50 x 5 mm of aluminium?
2019-06-15T12:11:16 < Steffanx> What cheap cncs? One of those chink ones?
2019-06-15T12:11:23 < jadew`> yeah
2019-06-15T12:11:27 < Steffanx> I know mr jpa-  has one
2019-06-15T12:11:46 < jadew`> yeah, IIRC he said he's cutting aluminium just fine
2019-06-15T12:11:49 < jpa-> jadew`: well, it's going to depend on a lot of things, such as the bit you use
2019-06-15T12:11:50 < jadew`> but I wonder how fast it is
2019-06-15T12:12:02 < jpa-> it's slow on aluminum, but let me check some numbers
2019-06-15T12:12:16 < jadew`> say with a 4 mm mill
2019-06-15T12:13:26 < jpa-> 3 flute 3.2mm endmill, 0.25mm depth-of-cut, 250mm/min
2019-06-15T12:14:29 < jpa-> ^ that's on aluminum
2019-06-15T12:14:42 < Steffanx> With the default spindle et all?
2019-06-15T12:14:52 < jpa-> on steel: 2 flute 0.9mm endmill, 0.1mm depth-of-cut, 30mm/min feed
2019-06-15T12:14:53 < jadew`> so that's 50 / 3.2 * 50 = 781 mm
2019-06-15T12:15:01 < jpa-> yeah, default spindle at maximum speed
2019-06-15T12:15:11 < jadew`> so 3 minutes per area pass
2019-06-15T12:15:17 < jadew`> 3.124
2019-06-15T12:15:22 < jpa-> oh and those are plunge cuts
2019-06-15T12:15:27 < jadew`> then we have 5 / 0.25
2019-06-15T12:15:33 < jadew`> 20
2019-06-15T12:15:43 < jadew`> so a bit over an hour, eh?
2019-06-15T12:15:48 < Steffanx> I'm still tempted to make a cnc, although I have no real use (yet) :D
2019-06-15T12:16:03 < jpa-> if you want an area pass and have halfway decent CAM software, do 60% overlap between passes and you get much better surface finish and can probably increase the feedrate by quite a bit
2019-06-15T12:16:42 < jadew`> sounds too slow for what I'd need it
2019-06-15T12:16:52 < jadew`> would be fine for prototyping, but not for production
2019-06-15T12:17:15 < Steffanx> Depends on how many you have to make
2019-06-15T12:17:34 < jpa-> yeah, i definitely wouldn't try production of 3D geometry aluminum parts on it
2019-06-15T12:17:44 < jadew`> well, you'd want to make as many as possible in one go, to get the best efficiency
2019-06-15T12:17:55 < jpa-> for something like cutting out shapes from flat stock it could work, though waterjet cutting would be cheap even outsourced
2019-06-15T12:18:44 < jpa-> this is on CNC3020 though, the not so much more expensive CNC6040 has a lot better spindle and could probably go about double the speed
2019-06-15T12:19:35 < jadew`> I assume a pro CNC would make short work of that block I described, correct?
2019-06-15T12:19:54 < jpa-> well a pro CNC would make an automatic tool change to 50mm flycutter and cut it in one pass
2019-06-15T12:20:00 < jadew`> I mean... a pro milling machine should be able to take 5mm deep chunks
2019-06-15T12:20:29 < jpa-> but at some point it starts to get limited by the amount of force the toolbit can take
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2019-06-15T12:20:36 < jpa-> higher RPM helps to an extent
2019-06-15T12:20:57 < jpa-> for CNC3020, the point at which the toolbit limits more than the machine is below <1mm endmills
2019-06-15T12:22:33 < jadew`> difficult decision, I've been thinking about this for so long, I should just get one of those vertical milling machines and convert it to CNC
2019-06-15T12:22:45 < jpa-> CAM software matters a lot also, if you limit yourself to open source options like i do, software like pycam, makercam, jscut and blendercam make absolutely terrible toolpaths that waste a lot of time and have a lot of variation in tool loading
2019-06-15T12:23:15 < jadew`> I'd probably use the same stuff
2019-06-15T12:23:21 < jadew`> or make my own
2019-06-15T12:24:20 < jpa-> yep, i've been planning a custom CAM software for some time but it's not a small task
2019-06-15T12:24:40 < Steffanx> Better improve the crappy ones ,)
2019-06-15T12:24:56 < jadew`> Steffanx, depends how crappy they are
2019-06-15T12:25:02 < boddax> cut aluminum with 3020 impossible
2019-06-15T12:25:18 < Steffanx> Otherwise we'll have another half decent tool
2019-06-15T12:25:53 < Steffanx> Or none at all because jadew didn't make it free/downloadable.
2019-06-15T12:26:00 < jadew`> haha
2019-06-15T12:26:01 < boddax> try bCNC jpa written in python easy to costumize
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2019-06-15T12:26:39 < jpa-> boddax: uh? that seems like just g-code sender (which i don't even need), not a g-code generator?
2019-06-15T12:26:50 < boddax> builtin autoleveler too
2019-06-15T12:27:15 < boddax> it convert from g-code to grbl 
2019-06-15T12:27:36 < boddax> no has interface with editor
2019-06-15T12:27:40 < jpa-> ...
2019-06-15T12:27:56 < boddax> graphical things
2019-06-15T12:28:37 < jadew`> boddax, we were talking about something that can take a STL or whatever 3D file and generate the tool paths
2019-06-15T12:29:09 < boddax> ok for printed 3d or cnc?
2019-06-15T12:30:33 < jadew`> for CNC
2019-06-15T12:35:30 < jpa-> some metal millings with CNC3020: aluminum http://essentialscrap.com/3dprinter/topplate.jpg   steel  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/P1010793.JPG
2019-06-15T12:35:54 < jadew`> I'm guessing that's some soft steel
2019-06-15T12:36:19 < jadew`> that alu part looks good
2019-06-15T12:36:31 < boddax> maybe with water cooled vfd can can do some easy job with small steps
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2019-06-15T12:37:18 < boddax> i have friend has 6040 machine works the aluminum with vfd but many tools broken 
2019-06-15T12:38:29 < jadew`> I'm not even sure I want to go down this route, but CNCed parts are super expensive
2019-06-15T12:38:37 < jadew`> they increase the BOM a lot
2019-06-15T12:39:04 < jpa-> jadew`: yeah, mild steel of course
2019-06-15T12:39:24 < jadew`> still, looks good
2019-06-15T12:39:55 < jpa-> boddax: wrong parameters or lack of coolant spray for the cutter, or just bad CAM that overloads the tool
2019-06-15T12:42:39 < jadew`> https://www.olx.ro/oferta/vand-freza-cnc-masina-de-gaurit-IDcmCUa.html
2019-06-15T12:42:43 < jadew`> does this look good?
2019-06-15T12:42:52 < boddax> i know that ..not quality tools warming have metal thermal drift
2019-06-15T12:43:44 < boddax> that one nice stuff
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2019-06-15T12:44:03 < jpa-> looks nice if you have the space to run it
2019-06-15T12:44:13 < boddax> can do a heavy job , do you have triphase?
2019-06-15T12:44:34 < jadew`> I could get triphase
2019-06-15T12:44:58 < boddax> space and solid pavment ..no vibrations at all
2019-06-15T12:45:47 < jadew`> I have a work space in an industrial area, but it's not at ground level and I'm not sure I want to carry that upstairs
2019-06-15T12:46:33 < boddax> it will shacking enough to make bad job if have no solid lower
2019-06-15T12:47:40 < boddax> seen setup big lathe when the guy finish put simethin thin on the top never fall he said this must be corrected setup
2019-06-15T12:51:45 < boddax> http://www.annunciindustriali.it/oc-content/uploads/334/83526.jpg this one can make also gears with divider
2019-06-15T12:54:22 < Steffanx> how old is that thing?
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2019-06-15T12:56:37 < jadew`> boddax, I considered getting a big one like that, but I'd have to find a better work space
2019-06-15T12:56:37 < boddax> old but can work well add stepper
2019-06-15T12:56:57 < jadew`> also, you can't just buy one of those
2019-06-15T12:57:01 < jadew`> you have to inspect it first
2019-06-15T12:57:13 < jadew`> they can have a lot of backlash
2019-06-15T12:58:05 < boddax> sure better if you know the seller ...some farms has to make prototype has work few hours that the best to buy
2019-06-15T12:58:32 < boddax> when renew theyr tools ..hundrds
2019-06-15T12:59:24 < boddax> even old can do good job ..avoid to buy from small company everyday use
2019-06-15T13:05:17 < boddax> where you living jadew?
2019-06-15T13:05:46 < jadew`> boddax, Romania
2019-06-15T13:17:49 < boddax> who knows what is the small ic U1 under pill board smd 5pin S2RA?
2019-06-15T13:31:37 < emeryth> boddax: it's the 3.3V regulator
2019-06-15T13:32:04 < boddax> thanks emeryth
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2019-06-15T13:58:37 < Thorn> hm there's actually an app note about it http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snoa967a/snoa967a.pdf
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2019-06-15T14:56:47 < englishman> jpa-: cnx6040 might have a better spindle but I'd think backlash would be as bad or worse
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2019-06-15T15:30:05 < jadew`> anyone else noticed that aliexpress isn't showing the total price anymore?
2019-06-15T15:35:24 < jadew`> fixed
2019-06-15T15:35:39 < jadew`> for anyone interested, I made a small tampermonkey script: http://5.12.166.69/stuff/ali-total.js
2019-06-15T15:35:49 < jadew`> the total price was still there, it was just hidden
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2019-06-15T15:54:11 < boddax> there a software comensation for backlash
2019-06-15T15:54:55 < jadew`> boddax, I know, but apparently you can get a lot of backlash and it might not work that well
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2019-06-15T15:56:08 < boddax> dont you have counter spring with your trapezoidal screw?
2019-06-15T15:56:26 < jadew`> I don't know
2019-06-15T15:57:12 < boddax> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_vDOacgYEw
2019-06-15T15:57:41 < boddax> jump at 1.37
2019-06-15T15:58:41 < jadew`> to have it preloaded?
2019-06-15T15:59:03 < boddax> yes
2019-06-15T15:59:26 < jadew`> I don't think that spring is enough tho, is it?
2019-06-15T15:59:34 < jadew`> might make things worse
2019-06-15T15:59:34 < boddax> eliminate almost all
2019-06-15T15:59:40 < boddax> no
2019-06-15T15:59:55 < jadew`> sure, it works when there's no load
2019-06-15T16:00:11 < boddax> it not force the screw if u set correct preload
2019-06-15T16:00:42 < jadew`> you're from Italy?
2019-06-15T16:00:48 < boddax> backslash cause problem when change direction
2019-06-15T16:00:52 < boddax> yes
2019-06-15T16:01:17 < jadew`> thought you're french
2019-06-15T16:02:46 < boddax> mawk is french tax payer
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2019-06-15T16:02:58 < jadew`> I know
2019-06-15T16:05:26 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/e9XfYZh.jpg
2019-06-15T16:06:13 < boddax> nice ..planning wind tunnel?
2019-06-15T16:06:48 < jadew`> I assume that's going to be used to cool that half a brain
2019-06-15T16:07:06 < bitmask> just playing around with impellers and cyclones, gonna either make a vacuum or air purifier
2019-06-15T16:08:06 < boddax> this is turbine ..not fun :p
2019-06-15T16:08:36 < bitmask> :)
2019-06-15T16:09:01 < boddax> pics shot with cellp?
2019-06-15T16:09:11 < boddax> good resolution
2019-06-15T16:09:12 < bitmask> not sure what kind of motor im gonna need
2019-06-15T16:09:13 < bitmask> yea
2019-06-15T16:09:38 < bitmask> I even cut the resolution in half
2019-06-15T16:09:40 < jadew`> bitmask, you made an algo for that?
2019-06-15T16:09:44 < bitmask> its an old phone though
2019-06-15T16:10:16 < bitmask> nah, just took one from thingiverse, scaled it up and thinned out the fins, if it doesn't work great I may consider looking more into the maths
2019-06-15T16:10:40 < jadew`> I'm sure it's an interesting field
2019-06-15T16:10:52 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:13188
2019-06-15T16:11:02 < boddax> maybe need push down a litle bit the layesr
2019-06-15T16:11:18 < boddax> or printed in draft?
2019-06-15T16:11:35 < jadew`> problem with printed impellers is that they're not smooth, which makes them noisy at high RPM
2019-06-15T16:11:40 < bitmask> boddax why do you say that
2019-06-15T16:11:50 < jadew`> afk
2019-06-15T16:11:59 < bitmask> yea I was thinking of sanding them, at least the curved part
2019-06-15T16:12:16 < boddax> seems there space beetween each othe , you measured final ?
2019-06-15T16:12:53 < boddax> in any case great job
2019-06-15T16:13:03 < bitmask> but I'm not sure I want to spin this at really high rpm.  If I'm just using it as an air purifier I'm hoping it will still function at lower rpm
2019-06-15T16:14:05 < bitmask> boddax, its pretty solid, not sure if you mean those random lines showing or what, this carbon fiber petg is weird to take pictures of
2019-06-15T16:14:36 < boddax> ah ok
2019-06-15T16:15:58 < bitmask> I thought for fine particles this might be the best cyclone option: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2686485
2019-06-15T16:16:19 < bitmask> most are for cleaning up dust and debris from shops so bigger particles
2019-06-15T16:16:29 < bitmask> so a single large cyclone
2019-06-15T16:16:55 < bitmask> and I think smaller cyclones will work better at lower speeds
2019-06-15T16:17:33 < bitmask> any idea if this type of impeller is better than a squirrel cage? I just picked this kind because I really like what it looks like :)
2019-06-15T16:17:59 < boddax> i think only way i to try it
2019-06-15T16:18:04 < bitmask> true
2019-06-15T16:18:39 < boddax> maybe noisy 
2019-06-15T16:19:27 < bitmask> just gotta find a motor for it, when I printed the regular sized one (which was made for a dremel) I used a spare motor from my hexacopter, I really doubt thats gonna spin this big one
2019-06-15T16:19:54 < boddax> lol no
2019-06-15T16:19:57 < bitmask> :)
2019-06-15T16:20:05 < boddax> smoke 
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2019-06-15T17:32:55 < Steffanx> hows the brains bitmask?
2019-06-15T17:33:50 < bitmask> I was about to start designing a base for it, I want to change up the one it comes with, still gotta print the second half but this impeller stuff jumped in first
2019-06-15T17:33:53 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2686485
2019-06-15T17:34:29 < bitmask> oops
2019-06-15T17:34:31 < bitmask> wrong link
2019-06-15T17:34:37 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/e9XfYZh.jpg
2019-06-15T17:35:48 < bitmask> do you know a lot about motors?
2019-06-15T17:36:34 < bitmask> looking for like a 50-100 watt 10k rpm brushless for it maybe? not really sure what I need
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2019-06-15T18:13:18 < boddax> to turn that need ask boeing to calculate 
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2019-06-15T19:13:30 < jpa-> englishman: backlash hasn't been a problem at all on CNC3020, though the general rigidity is quite bad
2019-06-15T19:15:06 < boddax> with my 3020 i make pcb with traces 0.4mm and maybe can do better but need too many passes take long time
2019-06-15T19:15:24 < englishman> jpa-: cool
2019-06-15T19:15:30 < englishman> how do you lubricate without making a big mess?
2019-06-15T19:15:34 < englishman> or does it make a big mess
2019-06-15T19:16:04 < boddax> me?
2019-06-15T19:16:05 < jpa-> for coolant, i usually use soap water
2019-06-15T19:16:10 < boddax> ah ok
2019-06-15T19:16:23 < jpa-> i've tilted it a bit so that it flows one way out and into a container
2019-06-15T19:17:06 < jpa-> but yeah, pcb making is slow because the spindle rpm is limited to 12000. i've been considering taking a bldc motor to make a higher rpm spindle
2019-06-15T19:18:06 < jpa-> http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/cnc3020_pcb.jpg   0.5mm pitch (0.3mm traces) is quite achievable, but not very reliable
2019-06-15T19:18:24 < jpa-> easy to break the tip off those 0.1mm carving bits
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2019-06-15T19:22:34 < boddax> nice job , what software you using jpa?
2019-06-15T19:24:52 < jpa-> flatcam
2019-06-15T19:26:23 < boddax> ok but gcode sender?
2019-06-15T19:26:46 < boddax> i use also flatcam ..a bit noisy to fix the offset
2019-06-15T19:27:13 < jpa-> offset?
2019-06-15T19:27:22 < karlp> did I read it right that c++ is going to allow designated intializers, but they _must_ be in the struct order?! what crack are they on
2019-06-15T19:27:27 < jpa-> for running gcode, i use smoothieboard + sd card
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2019-06-15T19:28:21 < jpa-> karlp: because "it would hurt optimizations if initialization was in the order you wrote it" and "it would be confusing if you listed them in different order than constructors actually run"
2019-06-15T19:28:24 < boddax> yes when import gerber layes to position it nearest to zero the xy 
2019-06-15T19:28:28 < mawk> karlp: also without holes no ?
2019-06-15T19:28:39 < mawk> you can't do struct { int a, b, c} = {.a = 1, .c = 2};
2019-06-15T19:28:45 < jpa-> karlp: basically the same as why constructor initializers have to be in same order as declaration
2019-06-15T19:29:16 < jpa-> boddax: i just set alternative origin in kicad before i export gerbers, so that the bottom corner is 0,0
2019-06-15T19:34:36 < boddax> that smoothieboard is openhardware?
2019-06-15T19:35:23 < boddax> ok found schematic
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2019-06-15T20:15:54 < Laurenceb> kek there is an autistic school near my house, just looked at their faceberg page
2019-06-15T20:16:05 < Laurenceb>  >my little pony cosplay party
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2019-06-15T20:31:21 < boddax> shhh Craki is sleeping
2019-06-15T20:34:48 < Thorn> muh MAC https://paste.jvnv.net/view/EQh5C
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2019-06-15T20:40:18 < Cracki> looks noisy
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2019-06-15T21:07:04 < Cracki> boddax, you wanna get ignored?
2019-06-15T21:07:15 < Steffanx> lol
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--- Day changed Sun Jun 16 2019
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2019-06-16T00:17:02 < kakimir> ping night crew
2019-06-16T00:23:19 < Cracki> I just witnessed some deranged person oppress herself. she fed some offensive words into a bullshit bingo generator and then screenshot her handiwork, claiming it was an unnamed third party
2019-06-16T00:25:39 < zyp> who cares
2019-06-16T00:30:36 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/14CQuEnKMQNZG4XppevwhjF8NfOithSw4/view?usp=sharing #carburetorlife
2019-06-16T00:31:04 < kakimir> engine is apparently flooded after engine breaking
2019-06-16T00:31:12 < kakimir> or sumthin
2019-06-16T00:33:06 < Steffanx> Awh. No time for a Europe tour yet, kakimir 
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2019-06-16T00:34:32 < kakimir> I need to fix carburetors
2019-06-16T00:34:36 < kakimir> see you in autumn
2019-06-16T00:34:37 < Steffanx> Not ready for*
2019-06-16T00:35:12 < Steffanx> K wont get some stroopwaffles yet then
2019-06-16T00:35:51 < zyp> can you fix my rock drill also when you're at it?
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2019-06-16T00:36:36 < kakimir> probs yes zyp
2019-06-16T00:36:57 < zyp> cool
2019-06-16T00:37:33 < zyp> I went and ordered a load of small stones today
2019-06-16T00:38:21 < zyp> they said they had time to deliver today, but nobody came
2019-06-16T00:38:39 < zyp> so now I can't start fucking around with that tomorrow like I hoped
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2019-06-16T00:42:25 < englishman> damn general labourers
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2019-06-16T00:48:28 < catphish> zyp: was it you building the house?
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2019-06-16T00:55:04 < zyp> catphish, yeah?
2019-06-16T00:56:53 < catphish> how's it going?
2019-06-16T00:56:58 < catphish> inhabitable yet?
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2019-06-16T01:09:54 < kakimir> friend once asked an electrician to do installations
2019-06-16T01:10:14 < kakimir> electrician said that he will come in November
2019-06-16T01:11:17 < kakimir> after 10years of waiting friend understood that he should have asked which year
2019-06-16T01:11:50 < kakimir> and got himself electrician papers
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2019-06-16T01:37:52 < zyp> catphish, or what house do you mean again? I had a house built, I didn't build it myself :)
2019-06-16T01:38:12 < zyp> I've been living here for five months now already
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2019-06-16T05:09:08 < bitmask> ugh, these long prints are killing me, 12 hours in and octoprint is still saying 1 day
2019-06-16T05:24:39 < Cracki> what unit does it use when days get too many?
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2019-06-16T06:29:10 < bitmask> years
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2019-06-16T06:39:41 < Cracki> I remember back when windows was almost three digits, people competed over how many days they could keep their system running
2019-06-16T06:40:09 < Cracki> there were ranking sites and you could join groups to pool your stamina
2019-06-16T06:40:17 < Cracki> this should be done with 3d printers today
2019-06-16T06:40:35 < Cracki> I wanna see people switch reels of filament mid-print
2019-06-16T06:40:58 < Cracki> I wanna see printers survive power outages and whatnot
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2019-06-16T06:41:07 < Cracki> *prints
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2019-06-16T06:43:11 < bitmask> I'm sure some people have UPS for em
2019-06-16T06:43:29 < bitmask> but they are getting better at pausing and resuming I guess
2019-06-16T06:43:58 < Cracki> ups is cheating.
2019-06-16T06:44:26 < Cracki> the thing should know where it got interrupted, or at least the operator should be able to continue from whatever layer
2019-06-16T06:44:54 < Cracki> at most you'd get half a fucked up layer
2019-06-16T06:45:10 < Cracki> recalibration could be tricky with a workpiece inside it
2019-06-16T06:45:15 < Cracki> *zeroing
2019-06-16T06:46:00 < Cracki> endstops at the right ends, probably ok... but it must wait for operator movement, or do a known safe move
2019-06-16T06:47:01 < bitmask> well it holds Z fine, if it just stores it as it goes, then it can home x and y and continue
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2019-06-16T06:48:06 < Cracki> yeh. maybe if it's a half-done layer, let operator eyeball (like with a layer-drawing slider in cura) how far into that layer it should restart
2019-06-16T06:48:26 < bitmask> why would the user need to do anything?
2019-06-16T06:48:41 < Cracki> battery backed ram could store every little move, but eeprom... I would only store completion of whole layers
2019-06-16T06:48:50 < Ultrasauce> new designs have both of those features
2019-06-16T06:49:10 < bitmask> yea, its not very difficult to keep track of where it is
2019-06-16T06:49:35 < Cracki> I'm considering a power outage killing everything abruptly. operator-initiated pause is absolutely benign.
2019-06-16T06:50:11 < bitmask> just keep storing position on the sdcard or some available storage method
2019-06-16T06:50:15 < Cracki> gah
2019-06-16T06:50:49 < Cracki> that's why I said nvram, not eeprom or flash. those wear out if you store state too much
2019-06-16T06:51:15 < Cracki> but yes, it's probably trivial, if someone actually sees a need for it
2019-06-16T06:51:30 < bitmask> most systems have a sdcard or octoprint with a whole linux system to keep track
2019-06-16T06:51:50 < Cracki> it's like "download managers" back when people used dialup. now, you're done before you know it
2019-06-16T06:51:53 < bitmask> octoprint shows the print head in real time, well mostly 
2019-06-16T06:52:09 < Cracki> that's as long as you have power
2019-06-16T06:52:29 < bitmask> ... but it saves the position in storage as it goes
2019-06-16T06:52:43 < bitmask> it knows if a print wasn't completed and where it left it
2019-06-16T06:52:44 < bitmask> off
2019-06-16T06:52:53 < Cracki> you understand my point about wearing out eeprom/flash?
2019-06-16T06:53:06 < bitmask> I never mentioned eeprom or flash
2019-06-16T06:53:14 < bitmask> unless you mean sdcard flash
2019-06-16T06:53:20 < Cracki> sd cards are flash
2019-06-16T06:53:52 < Cracki> and you seem to imply that state is saved more often than once per layer, so that sounds to me like about once a second or more often
2019-06-16T06:54:02 < bitmask> well I wouldn't mind going through sd cards if that meant I could resume my prints
2019-06-16T06:54:26 < bitmask> I'm just saying what could be done, I"m not saying anything about what is done
2019-06-16T06:54:33 < Cracki> fair point
2019-06-16T06:54:36 < Cracki> same
2019-06-16T06:56:09 < bitmask> I mean really like you mentioned battery, just detect power out and use a battery to save to eeprom/flash and then die
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2019-06-16T08:43:18 < jpa-> adding a cheap RTC module with a few bytes of nvram might be easier than adding a battery
2019-06-16T08:45:18 < jpa-> but even storing once a second, it's not that likely to wear out an sd card - there is so much space for wear levelling compared to the amount of data written
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2019-06-16T11:00:10 < dongs> sup dongs
2019-06-16T11:05:38 < boddax> all right ..near to finish the board at this point input pin going to ground such as probe touch better optoisolate or direct ? 
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2019-06-16T11:11:39 < dongs> all questions must be in the form of an asnwer
2019-06-16T11:14:25 < catphish> zyp: that was the house i meant, didn't realise it was so long ago :)
2019-06-16T11:14:38 < boddax> cnc controller input PAxx example the probe touch
2019-06-16T11:16:03 < boddax> directly to mcu input can damage the mcu itself thats the question
2019-06-16T11:16:49 < boddax> the original circuit have 4 input optoisolated
2019-06-16T11:17:09 < dongs> PAx pins on most STMs are 3.3v max
2019-06-16T11:17:21 < zyp> catphish, time flies
2019-06-16T11:18:01 < boddax> in this case when touch plate have contact the pin goes to groun 0
2019-06-16T11:20:54 < dongs> its not used for ADC?
2019-06-16T11:21:20 < dongs> a lot of things that interface with big, noisy hardware is usually optoisolated.
2019-06-16T11:21:30 < boddax> no simply on or off
2019-06-16T11:21:37 < dongs> whether you need to do same or not, really depends
2019-06-16T11:25:18 < zyp> Cracki, the problem with a power outage mid-print is that the head is still hot, and when it stops in place somewhere that heat is gonna propagate downwards into already printed layers
2019-06-16T11:25:32 < zyp> so you risk fucking up more than just the current layer
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2019-06-16T11:39:07 < gnom> hi all
2019-06-16T11:39:12 < gnom> exist is circuit's for nextion display nx3224t028_011
2019-06-16T11:39:16 < gnom> who knows what tft driver is established
2019-06-16T11:40:43 < dongs> https://nextion.itead.cc/resources/download/nextion-editor/
2019-06-16T11:40:47 < dongs> why dont you use their shit
2019-06-16T11:41:15 < dongs> i think its one of those smart displays with some shit that takes highlevel drawing stuff
2019-06-16T11:41:18 < dongs> and shows it
2019-06-16T11:42:30 < dongs> oh hah, the chip name is scratched off
2019-06-16T11:42:31 < dongs> haha
2019-06-16T11:42:34 < dongs> fuckin chinks
2019-06-16T11:43:58 < dongs> gnom: i guess its some ILIwhatever or shit could be anything some garbage LCD driver
2019-06-16T11:48:07 < Thorn> my MAC has stayed synced to the beacon overnight and didn't hang or anything
2019-06-16T11:48:27 < zyp> nice
2019-06-16T11:48:31 < gnom> i have such display, but their editor is unnecessary for me
2019-06-16T11:48:53 < dongs> https://www.airbnb.com/experiences/916429 zyp, got 80 days?
2019-06-16T11:49:47 < zyp> haha, cool
2019-06-16T11:50:34 < karlp> looks cheap
2019-06-16T11:50:37 < dongs> very
2019-06-16T11:51:14 < karlp> here's some flights and a bed, but if you want to _do_ the things you see in the promo, that's extra....
2019-06-16T11:51:53 < dongs> it says accomodation/transportation/food is included so i odnno wat else thety would charge for
2019-06-16T11:51:56 < zyp> $62 per day doesn't sound all that bad
2019-06-16T11:57:11 < jadew`> sounds like a cool trip
2019-06-16T11:57:30 < jadew`> jpa-, what spindle do you have on your CNC?
2019-06-16T11:58:19 < karlp> dongs: all the activities
2019-06-16T11:58:57 < dongs> ya? but i dont need to do them
2019-06-16T11:59:11 < jadew`> I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on that, but I'm not sure what to get, I'll have to hit the forums
2019-06-16T11:59:14 < dongs> where's fine print that says I need to pay for fucking goats in africa
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2019-06-16T14:10:41 < jpa-> jadew`: the very basic one that comes with CNC3020, https://www.ebay.com/itm/400W-Air-Cooled-DC-Spindle-Motor-ER11-ER16-collect-New-52mm-clamp-Mount-bracket/323649806565?hash=item4b5b0820e5:m:mTdBIqCpY1UiFA0l4l9U2xw
2019-06-16T14:10:52 < jpa-> basically it's just a DC motor with a collet chuck
2019-06-16T14:11:52 < jadew`> jpa-, I see
2019-06-16T14:12:10 < jadew`> would you recommend me to get the same one?
2019-06-16T14:14:53 < jadew`> also, have you checked what tolerance you get out of it?
2019-06-16T14:15:33 < Steffanx> time to read jpa- *crap.com http://essentialscrap.com/cnc/
2019-06-16T14:16:20 < jadew`> thanks for the link
2019-06-16T14:17:26 < jpa-> jadew`: "tolerance" is such a wide topic
2019-06-16T14:17:51 < jadew`> how difficult would be to hit 0.01 mm?
2019-06-16T14:17:55 < jpa-> difficult
2019-06-16T14:18:51 < jpa-> if you have the money and space, i'd recommend CNC6040; and if you are more interested in milling rather than routing, get a small mill instead
2019-06-16T14:19:08 < jadew`> I am more interested in milling
2019-06-16T14:19:13 < jadew`> you mean a small vertical mill?
2019-06-16T14:19:28 < jpa-> yeah
2019-06-16T14:19:35 < jpa-> these are primarily routers
2019-06-16T14:19:45 < jpa-> and best for cutting out pieces from flat stock
2019-06-16T14:19:56 < jadew`> right
2019-06-16T14:20:03 < jadew`> which is something a vertical mill can also do
2019-06-16T14:20:10 < zyp> what's the difference between a mill and a router?
2019-06-16T14:20:20 < jadew`> zyp, the mill is more sturdy
2019-06-16T14:20:32 < jadew`> and more powerful usually
2019-06-16T14:20:37 < jadew`> so it can cut at lower RPM
2019-06-16T14:20:51 < jpa-> yeah, the structure is different, router focuses on large working area on X-Y dimensions while a mill focuses on stiffness
2019-06-16T14:20:53 < jadew`> can also be used to drill
2019-06-16T14:21:06 < jpa-> small mills usually only have like 10cm space in the shortest axis
2019-06-16T14:22:15 < jadew`> jpa-, think I'd be able to hit 0.01 mm more easily with a mill?
2019-06-16T14:22:51 < jpa-> sure, if the mill is of better quality than the CNC3020; i doubt you'd get a reasonable mill for $500 new
2019-06-16T14:23:17 < jadew`> I'm willing to go above 1k
2019-06-16T14:24:12 < jadew`> I'm just not sure I'm willing to take it up 3 flights of stairs
2019-06-16T14:24:25 < jadew`> they usually weight above 100 kg
2019-06-16T14:24:26 < jpa-> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Proxxon-MF-70-milling-machine-371104-ref-27110-Direct-from-RDGTools/371440176649?epid=6003304965&hash=item567b8f4e09:g:HRYAAOSwHjNV-BT2   i've seen one of these really cheap mills in operation, seemed to get about same quality as cnc3020 would
2019-06-16T14:24:41 < jadew`> really?
2019-06-16T14:24:56 < jadew`> I always wondered if that one was any good
2019-06-16T14:25:04 < jpa-> i wouldn't buy it
2019-06-16T14:25:16 < jpa-> a crappy router has much more use than a crappy mill, IMO
2019-06-16T14:25:29 < zyp> so the difference between a router and a mill is that a router moves the spindle around, a mill moves the workpiece around?
2019-06-16T14:26:01 < jpa-> zyp: that's how it often get arranged, but there are routers that move the workpiece also
2019-06-16T14:26:12 < zyp> so how do you distinguish?
2019-06-16T14:26:20 < jadew`> zyp, not sure if that's the difference, but I haven't seen mills with moving spindles yet
2019-06-16T14:26:24 < jpa-> by what it was meant to do :P
2019-06-16T14:27:21 < jadew`> I think the distinction is in what they can and can't do
2019-06-16T14:27:42 < jpa-> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Onda9jgiyA8/maxresdefault.jpg   i'd say the distinction is obvious even from looks
2019-06-16T14:28:11 < jadew`> routers have a larger working area, coupled with a lower power spindle
2019-06-16T14:28:19 < jadew`> for mills it's usually the other way around
2019-06-16T14:28:28 < jpa-> but i don't think you can judge by what can and can't be done; you can get quite high accuracy on router if you go slow, and you can process big workpieces on mill if you reposition the workpiece
2019-06-16T14:28:47 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVYIXzO6UtI looks pretty ok
2019-06-16T14:28:54 < Steffanx> that proxxon with some steppers.
2019-06-16T14:28:54 < jadew`> jpa-, yeah, I mean in the sense of how much they can eat
2019-06-16T14:29:09 < jadew`> a mill can easily do steel
2019-06-16T14:29:20 < jpa-> jadew`: there are tiny mills that can't do steel and huge routers that can
2019-06-16T14:29:47 < jadew`> then I don't know what the distinction is :)
2019-06-16T14:29:56 < jadew`> I'm going by how they look
2019-06-16T14:30:14 < jpa-> Steffanx: i'd be annoyed by the ~5cm max dimension
2019-06-16T14:30:21 < Steffanx> Yeah that for sure
2019-06-16T14:30:51 < jpa-> yeah, the look tells them apart - and if you think about how much flex there will be between the spindle and the workpiece, one can see a very clear difference
2019-06-16T14:32:52 < jpa-> but i wouldn't run a CNC mill with any of the open source CAM softwares - you'd just waste so much potential by the crappy toolpaths
2019-06-16T14:33:18 < zyp> what would you use? fusion 360?
2019-06-16T14:34:01 < jpa-> fusion 360 or cambam are the next step up, yeah
2019-06-16T14:34:06 < jpa-> i haven't tried out either of them
2019-06-16T14:35:47 < jpa-> when the machine itself is more powerful, you put more load on the toolbit; and if the generated toolpath is stupid, your tool load will vary a lot. Either you set it so that maximum load is at 100% and average is 5% and waste your time, or you set it so that average is at 50% and maximum is at 1000% load and break your bit
2019-06-16T14:39:18 < jpa-> (if you were doing large production batch of a single part, you could of course optimize by hand, but it gets quite tedious and you'd have to redo it if you ever update the design)
2019-06-16T14:40:20 < BrainDamage> is the problem just in the tool planning, or the execution too?
2019-06-16T14:40:23 < Steffanx> So it's time for MahtavaCAM by jpa-
2019-06-16T14:41:04 < jpa-> BrainDamage: the problem is in generating the gcode, even AVR-based grbl etc. implementations handle the execution well enough
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2019-06-16T14:44:20 < jpa-> https://sites.google.com/site/heekscad/_/rsrc/1393424206466/home/HeeksCNC%201.0.jpg   paths like this have the tool run squarely to the corner of unmilled material on every round, while shortly afterwards slowing it down for the sharp turn; so first overload by unnecessarily pluging straight on to uncut material, and then also slowing down the feedrate to maximize the chances of nice chatter
2019-06-16T14:45:45 < jpa-> it's a bit better if you configure it to go outside-in, but then you have a maximally long plunge cut to solid material at the outer edge
2019-06-16T14:48:20 < jpa-> https://mk0cnccookbookgxcner.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/GibbsHSM.jpg   smarter CAM packages do paths like this, with the path going in smooth arcs with constant tool load as much as possible
2019-06-16T14:49:12 < Steffanx> cant the other tools do that? As in.. have some way to configure it. And the shitty one is just badly configured?
2019-06-16T14:49:45 < jpa-> well.. if you call drawing the path manually "configuration", then yes they can; but not automatically from a 2D/3D model
2019-06-16T14:50:54 < Steffanx> especially since the mode is just set to "conventional" whatever that might be
2019-06-16T14:51:18 < jpa-> that's just conventional vs. climb cutting, which basically means whether the toolpath goes clockwise or counter-clockwise
2019-06-16T14:51:55 < Steffanx> and zigzag?
2019-06-16T14:53:32 < jpa-> https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/I/m/Zig-zag_tool_path.jpg  that's this, which does work better for some shapes
2019-06-16T14:53:50 < jpa-> even the basic pocket cutting shown in the first image works ok if all the corners are round enough
2019-06-16T14:57:05 < jpa-> apparently heekscnc does have some adaptive toolpath support, i guess i should try it again some time, i've had a bit of trouble getting used to its user interface
2019-06-16T14:57:59 < Steffanx> do you still use your cnc on a regular basis anyway? Or does the hackerspace have fancier stuff?
2019-06-16T14:58:12 < jpa-> no, hackerspace has crappier stuff
2019-06-16T14:58:28 < Steffanx> im surprised.
2019-06-16T14:59:17 < jpa-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSiLzEqyiec  we have this i built together with a friend from hardware store RHS pipe
2019-06-16T15:00:08 < Steffanx> im not sure what to say.
2019-06-16T15:00:12 < jpa-> https://photos.app.goo.gl/KqhhSBmNjP8M2Kno9  and we have this robot hand which could probably do some light-weight cutting once we figure out the software
2019-06-16T15:00:18 < Steffanx> isnt that gantry HEAVY as hell?
2019-06-16T15:00:33 < jpa-> yes, it's not a fast machine
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2019-06-16T15:03:03 < Steffanx> How many people does this space have?
2019-06-16T15:03:39 < jpa-> it averages at around 5-10 people present per club night, though we have ~50 members in total nowadays
2019-06-16T15:04:12 < Steffanx> aha
2019-06-16T15:05:04 < jpa-> but not many with an interest in CNC stuff, mostly me and one friend and he has a baby now so he's rarely there
2019-06-16T15:07:04 < Steffanx> tarduino it is?
2019-06-16T15:07:14 < Steffanx> or esp-hobbybobby projects?
2019-06-16T15:07:45 < Steffanx> That's what happens in the spaces here, sadly.
2019-06-16T15:08:03 < jpa-> that of course also, but also a lot of just computer stuff and also quite a bit of normal woodworking
2019-06-16T15:08:39 < jpa-> and also a bit of radio stuff, even though there is amateur radio club in the city also
2019-06-16T15:23:21 < boddax> you can make a pick&pla<ce machine with that arm jpa-
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2019-06-16T15:39:46 < jpa-> of course i could, but i have no reason to
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2019-06-16T16:00:23 < boddax> shhh Cracki is sleeping
2019-06-16T16:05:30 < rajkosto> LOUD NOISES
2019-06-16T16:25:08 < Steffanx> oh no, you'll get ignored now boddax.
2019-06-16T16:33:48 < englishman> i fired up the 6040 the other day and even remembered how to use it
2019-06-16T16:33:52 < englishman> only broke 1 bit
2019-06-16T16:34:01 < Steffanx> goodj ob.
2019-06-16T16:34:21 < Steffanx> did you do aluminium straight away?
2019-06-16T16:34:35 < englishman> no, have not touched metals with it, seems messy
2019-06-16T16:35:13 < Steffanx> meh
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2019-06-16T16:50:10 < jpa-> englishman: get a box to put it in :P
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2019-06-16T18:02:17 < bitmask> good morning
2019-06-16T18:03:09 < mawk> bitmask &= ~0xFF;
2019-06-16T18:03:24 < bitmask> :(
2019-06-16T18:03:29 < Steffanx> Hello Rob235
2019-06-16T18:03:40 < bitmask> how goes it
2019-06-16T18:05:18 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/lRsDTtB.png
2019-06-16T18:05:25 < bitmask> a bit stringy but not bad
2019-06-16T18:06:53 < BrainDamage> barrel for a rotary grenade launcher?
2019-06-16T18:07:14 < bitmask> cyclone dust separator
2019-06-16T18:07:41 < BrainDamage> for the workshop?
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2019-06-16T18:08:49 < bitmask> for the future workshop, but for now I'm just kinda playing around, I want to see how slow I can run a motor and have it still function, if I can keep it quiet I want to use it as an air purifier for now, my room gets so dusty
2019-06-16T18:09:03 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/e9XfYZh.jpg
2019-06-16T18:09:12 < bitmask> thats the impeller Im trying
2019-06-16T18:09:54 < bitmask> if it doesnt work at low speeds I'll just use it as a vacuum for now
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2019-06-16T18:34:47 < BrainDamage> you can always gear it
2019-06-16T18:37:04 < BrainDamage> I'm not sure if a cyclone dust separator will be very efffective for air cleaning, it seems to me most purifiers use hepa filters which would suggest me the particle size is very tiny
2019-06-16T18:39:25 < englishman> I use one before a HEPA filter so it doesn't clog as often
2019-06-16T18:39:38 < englishman> but that's for cutting composite
2019-06-16T18:45:06 < bitmask> thats why I went with a multicyclone design, the multiple small cyclones should be better at fine particles, and then a hepa filter after that
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2019-06-16T18:47:20 < bitmask> so the air goes into the cyclone separator, through a hepa filter, through the impeller and I want to add an activated charcoal filter somewhere, either right before or right after the impeller
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2019-06-16T18:59:56 < Thorn> how do I deal with clock wraparound? if I use 32-bit clock it will wrap around after 43 days. should I simply use 64-bit clock instead?
2019-06-16T19:03:07 < zyp> deal in what sense?
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2019-06-16T19:04:50 < BrainDamage> put the charcoal filter before the hepa
2019-06-16T19:05:00 < BrainDamage> charcoal is cheaper than hepa
2019-06-16T19:05:07 < zyp> instead of «time >= deadline», do «(int32_t)(time - deadline) >= 0»
2019-06-16T19:05:09 < BrainDamage> and catches the biffer stuff
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2019-06-16T19:05:48 < zyp> as long as deadline is not more than 21 days in the future, that'll just work
2019-06-16T19:08:14 < englishman> just accept the fact that time is nonlinear
2019-06-16T19:09:47 < BrainDamage> 4-corner, simultaneous 4-day TIME CUBE
2019-06-16T19:17:32 < Thorn> deadlines shouldn't be more than a few minutes in the future in my case
2019-06-16T19:19:17 < zyp> yeah, so as long as you do signed numbers and compare with 0 it'll just work
2019-06-16T19:21:13 < Thorn> ok thanks
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2019-06-16T20:40:06 < jpa-> Thorn: i never bother to test the wrapover so i just use 64-bit clock
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2019-06-16T21:12:51  * karlp too.
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2019-06-16T21:21:08  * qyx  too
2019-06-16T21:22:03  * Steffanx reminds jpa- of this over 584 554 531 years.
2019-06-16T21:22:46 < Steffanx> (asssuming he as a tick every millisecond)
2019-06-16T21:25:14 < Steffanx> A tick counter.
2019-06-16T21:28:20 < Steffanx> of a counter that gets increased by some timer thingy.
2019-06-16T21:32:20 < jpa-> i have tick every microsecond
2019-06-16T21:32:36 < jpa-> sometimes every clock cycle, but usually every microsecond
2019-06-16T21:33:41  * qyx too
2019-06-16T21:34:17 < qyx> I usually don't bother to do conversions and stuff, every time is in microsecond units
2019-06-16T21:35:20 < qyx> unrelated, any nic way of driving a small 8ohm speaker directly from stm23?
2019-06-16T21:37:57 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-06-16T21:38:35 < jpa-> timer complementary drive of two gpios works quite ok for 32 ohm speaker, but for 8 ohms you probably need an external power device
2019-06-16T21:39:51 < jpa-> dac to external speaker amp chip is easiest
2019-06-16T21:40:24 < qyx> yeah Im am thinking of some mosfet gate driver connected to complementary pwm
2019-06-16T21:41:24 < qyx> but 1. not enough hertz for pwm (F0 running at ~16MHz) and 2. not enough voltage for the gate driver (lipo)
2019-06-16T21:41:39 < emeryth> just get one of those tiny PAMxxxx amplifiers
2019-06-16T21:41:45 < qyx> maybe the cheapest way is using a low cost class D power amp
2019-06-16T21:41:53 < qyx> connected to the DAC
2019-06-16T21:46:39 < qyx> ok the first problem, there is no DAC in F031 in TSSOP20
2019-06-16T21:47:13 < Rickta59> the .8" pitch 32 pin tfqp is approachable
2019-06-16T21:48:04 < Rickta59> stm32f051k8
2019-06-16T21:48:37 < Rickta59> lqfp32
2019-06-16T21:49:23 < Cracki> there are amplifier ICs with digital input
2019-06-16T21:49:47 < Cracki> spares you from getting or making a dac in front of the amplifier
2019-06-16T21:50:23 < qyx> yeah there are multiple options
2019-06-16T21:50:27 < Cracki> cost (or power) might be a factor, considering you picked an F0
2019-06-16T21:50:35 < qyx> mhm https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32f0-series.html says F0x1 should have a DAC
2019-06-16T21:51:06 < Cracki> except for the value line
2019-06-16T21:51:32 < qyx> yes, so F031 should count
2019-06-16T21:51:58 < Cracki> right, I got digit-shifted
2019-06-16T21:52:04 < qyx> but no DAc in the DS
2019-06-16T21:52:10 < qyx> much confused
2019-06-16T21:52:11 < Cracki> is it the right data sheet
2019-06-16T21:52:19 < Rickta59> https://octopart.com/search?q=stm32f031 no dac interface option
2019-06-16T21:52:19 < qyx> STM32F031x4 STM32F031x6
2019-06-16T21:52:22 < qyx> I guess so
2019-06-16T21:52:33 < qyx> probably heir table is wrong
2019-06-16T21:54:27 < qyx> they don't even table, there is no DAC, they misspelled DAC/ADC
2019-06-16T21:54:52 < Cracki> product selector, filtered for dacs, doesn't give me any f03, f05 at minimum
2019-06-16T21:55:17 < Cracki> ! well spotted
2019-06-16T21:56:56 < Cracki> so... discrete ~8 bit r2r network? or something like this? http://www.ti.com/product/TAS5755M
2019-06-16T22:00:25 < jpa-> qyx: what kind of audio are you planning to make? just beeps or some high-quality?
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2019-06-16T22:01:37 < qyx> low freq beeps and squeaks
2019-06-16T22:01:50 < qyx> high intensity
2019-06-16T22:03:05 < jpa-> so you don't need any pwm or anything, just generate the frequency from timer directly
2019-06-16T22:03:47 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-06-16T22:04:00 < qyx> I wanted to make arbitrary sounds
2019-06-16T22:04:18 < qyx> PAM8016 this thing looks great
2019-06-16T22:05:11 < Cracki> "haptic driver"? https://www.diodes.com/products/analog/audio/part/PAM8016
2019-06-16T22:05:23 < qyx> yeah
2019-06-16T22:08:38 < qyx> emeryth: thanks PAM8301 is exactly what I was looking for
2019-06-16T22:16:01 < qyx> STM32F051K4T6 + PAM8301 + speaker + one LDO + lipo/liion is doable
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2019-06-16T22:54:27 < aandrew> those pam chips are super high gain
2019-06-16T22:54:33 < aandrew> they oscillate like crazy if you're not careful
2019-06-16T22:59:27 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/Gy4Jd4M.png
2019-06-16T22:59:28 < bitmask> 30 hours in
2019-06-16T23:06:19 < mawk> then your cat bumps it
2019-06-16T23:06:23 < mawk> whole thing ruined
2019-06-16T23:08:25 < Steffanx> is it underextruding sometimes or what's those darker lines bitmask?
2019-06-16T23:09:27 < bitmask> yea, im not sure exactly whats causing it, I think it may be layer change, its not gonna affect the strength though
2019-06-16T23:10:57 < bitmask> ehh maybe not layer change, those are long lines
2019-06-16T23:11:09 < bitmask> i'll try calibrating my e-steps after this print
2019-06-16T23:12:38 < bitmask> last time I checked it was pretty close but actually over extruding, I think when I told it to extrude 100mm it did 105, I didnt change any settings so thats why I dont think its that
2019-06-16T23:14:11 < aandrew> bitmask: what's that?
2019-06-16T23:14:23 < bitmask> cyclone separator like a dyson vacuum
2019-06-16T23:14:31 < aandrew> interesting
2019-06-16T23:15:02 < bitmask> pairing with https://i.imgur.com/e9XfYZh.jpg
2019-06-16T23:15:31 < bitmask> I wanna see if it works at low and high speed, use it as an air purifier regularly and then switch it high to use as a shopvac
2019-06-16T23:15:50 < aandrew> interesting blade design
2019-06-16T23:15:55 < aandrew> two different pitches
2019-06-16T23:16:18 < bitmask> yea, I didn't really look into impeller design but this type of style seems fairly common
2019-06-16T23:16:29 < aandrew> it's a bitmask design?
2019-06-16T23:16:34 < bitmask> this was originally designed for a dremel, scaled it up 240%
2019-06-16T23:16:36 < bitmask> nope
2019-06-16T23:16:44 < bitmask> just mixing different designs togethr
2019-06-16T23:16:48 < aandrew> gotcha
2019-06-16T23:17:50 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2686485
2019-06-16T23:17:55 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:13188
2019-06-16T23:20:27 < qyx> the guy doesn't seem to know anything about impeller design neither
2019-06-16T23:20:49 < qyx> because it says it is not sure if it shouldd rotate right or left
2019-06-16T23:20:53 < qyx> *he says
2019-06-16T23:21:09 < qyx> I mean the guy, not the impeller
2019-06-16T23:21:16 < bitmask> haha yea thats true, I forget why I picked this one, I did rotate it though
2019-06-16T23:21:32 < bitmask> I mirrored it before printing
2019-06-16T23:21:43 < bitmask> so that when it turns it tightens on the bolt
2019-06-16T23:24:20 < bitmask> then theres ones like this with an axial twist, https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:590416
2019-06-16T23:24:47 < bitmask> but most of the designs say they just did what they thought would work and don't say based on math
2019-06-16T23:30:04 < karlp> qyx: audio-cheap.txt in the zypsnips has the pam8301 solution too, dongs+emeb approved as well :)
2019-06-16T23:31:07 < qyx> oh \o/
2019-06-16T23:32:05 < karlp> I think aandrew did it after them, hence the gain comments.
2019-06-16T23:32:48 < englishman> just check the "making things talk" issue of MAKE magazine. you can buy some $50 module from aidsfruit that will solve your problem.
2019-06-16T23:33:27 < qyx> maybe I want it IoT enabled too
2019-06-16T23:33:57 < qyx> meh I just want to bury it in the ground to make moles away
2019-06-16T23:34:39 < qyx> and to experiment a bit which sound works the best
2019-06-16T23:34:52 < qyx> also to sell on tindie and make $$$
2019-06-16T23:35:18 < englishman> Diodes Inc might be my fav power ic company rite now
2019-06-16T23:36:05 < englishman> it's like they find all the gaps in TI products and make better, cheaper solutions
2019-06-16T23:36:51 < Steffanx> soon theyll make a pam430 and make englishman happy.
2019-06-16T23:37:23 < bitmask> anyone know of a cheap airflow meter?
2019-06-16T23:37:41 < englishman> oh noooo steffy
2019-06-16T23:44:16 < sync> yes they make some cool shit englishman 
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--- Day changed Mon Jun 17 2019
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2019-06-17T01:23:47 < Thorn> my MAC now has a packet scheduler which is too powerful for the way it's being used
2019-06-17T01:24:01 < Thorn> OTOH I can reuse it for the coordinator
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2019-06-17T01:44:42 < mawk> it's which protocol Thorn ?
2019-06-17T01:44:45 < mawk> your own ?
2019-06-17T01:44:51 < mawk> or 802.11, 802.15.4, bluetooth ?
2019-06-17T01:45:14 < Thorn> yes my own. roughly similar to 802.15.4
2019-06-17T01:45:30 < mawk> nice
2019-06-17T01:45:44 < mawk> with higher bitrate maybe ?
2019-06-17T01:58:30 < Thorn> not really, reliability first
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2019-06-17T03:34:30 < karlp> just because I probably missed it, but what was wrong with the 802.15.4 mac?
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2019-06-17T03:37:38 < mawk> yeah it works pretty well, it has retransmits even at this level
2019-06-17T03:38:09 < zyp> what mac?
2019-06-17T03:38:30 < mawk> MAC from the 802.15.4 specification
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2019-06-17T03:39:19 < zyp> sure, but which implementation? :)
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2019-06-17T04:07:21 < mawk> but the MAC is specified zyp 
2019-06-17T04:07:28 < mawk> any implementation should be worth any other
2019-06-17T04:07:37 < mawk> if it's not reliable then the implementation is buggy
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2019-06-17T12:40:46 < zyp> mawk, yeah, right :)
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2019-06-17T13:24:24 < jly> oh it seems I missed laurence
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2019-06-17T19:01:25 < Steffanx> Is irc dead?
2019-06-17T19:01:39 < Steffanx> Better join stm32 pros on telegram
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2019-06-17T19:13:57 < englishman> well
2019-06-17T19:13:59 < englishman> just the pros
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2019-06-17T19:52:42 < upgrdman> typical black person  https://gfycat.com/immediatecourteousduiker
2019-06-17T20:06:57 -!- Chris_M|2 [~Chris_M@ppp121-45-247-128.nme-sot-dry-bras31.tpg.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2019-06-17T20:12:48 < Steffanx> hello upgrdman. do you like niggers?
2019-06-17T20:13:19 < upgrdman> sure why not
2019-06-17T20:13:45 < Steffanx> idk. just asking
2019-06-17T20:13:45 < Mangy_Dog> steffanx can you not use that language?
2019-06-17T20:15:31 < Steffanx> Were you offended much Mangy_Dog?
2019-06-17T20:16:16 < Mangy_Dog> me personally no but its a fucking offensive slur that tbh shouldnt be so thriverously said 
2019-06-17T20:16:51 < Steffanx> It's as offensive as you make it.
2019-06-17T20:17:10 < upgrdman> Steffanx, sounds like you found the nigger lover
2019-06-17T20:17:16 < upgrdman> j/k Mangy_Dog 
2019-06-17T20:18:18 < upgrdman> to be clear: i have nother against black people. this channel is just full of trolls... that's part of what makes ##stm32 special
2019-06-17T20:18:22 < upgrdman> nothing*
2019-06-17T20:19:42 < upgrdman> another topic for conversation   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWCAMvCIliA&t=1m17s
2019-06-17T20:20:50 < Steffanx> nowadays upgrdman is the biggest troll of us all
2019-06-17T20:20:56 < Steffanx> How chinaland going?
2019-06-17T20:21:03 < upgrdman> america'd right now
2019-06-17T20:21:20 < upgrdman> but china's fun i guess. summer weather will suck ass though
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2019-06-17T21:11:14 < specing> Can you find a troll to calibrate it with?
2019-06-17T21:12:32 < jadew`> eli the computer guy seems like eevblog for the stupid nerds
2019-06-17T21:13:09 < jadew`> I mean... that video title starts with Arduino
2019-06-17T21:13:11 < jadew`> nuff said
2019-06-17T21:13:30 < Steffanx> so tell us about boddax. What does boddax do for a living and what made you join ##stm32?
2019-06-17T21:14:01 < jadew`> can I take a guess? he's either a pizza maker
2019-06-17T21:14:12 < jadew`> or spagetti maker
2019-06-17T21:14:33 < jadew`> it was 50/50
2019-06-17T21:16:05 < Steffanx> a real italian would cast you out.
2019-06-17T21:16:34 < jadew`> can I have another guess?
2019-06-17T21:16:44 < jadew`> he's a plummer
2019-06-17T21:17:07 < jadew`> ok, I'll take that as a challenge
2019-06-17T21:17:11 < Steffanx> You have no job?
2019-06-17T21:17:49 < jadew`> ok... you have a job, english not so good, so it can't be something where you interact a lot with foreigners
2019-06-17T21:17:53 < jadew`> => not programmer
2019-06-17T21:18:15 < jadew`> since you think I can't guess, it's not electronics related either
2019-06-17T21:18:34 < jadew`> that leaves us with... everything else
2019-06-17T21:18:56 < jadew`> let me see if I can narrow it down
2019-06-17T21:19:13 < jadew`> you're not a cook, otherwise you would have said I'm close
2019-06-17T21:20:20 < jadew`> is that the hint?
2019-06-17T21:20:39 < Steffanx> Deep Vagina Deep Mind
2019-06-17T21:20:43 < Steffanx> ?
2019-06-17T21:20:45 < jadew`> somehow I think that made it worse
2019-06-17T21:20:47 < Steffanx> porn star it is
2019-06-17T21:21:48 < Steffanx> aha
2019-06-17T21:21:49 < jadew`> that was my next guess
2019-06-17T21:23:08 < jadew`> I'm not sure what to name my job
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2019-06-17T21:24:18 < jadew`> it is not
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2019-06-17T21:24:33 < jadew`> I used to be a programmer, now I'm trying to get my own business going
2019-06-17T21:24:50 < jadew`> I design electronics and do IT consulting on the side
2019-06-17T21:25:11 < jadew`> a good time would have been 10 years ago
2019-06-17T21:25:38 < jadew`> I'm the Romanian, we've been over that a couple of days ago too :)
2019-06-17T21:26:04 < Steffanx> Im romanian too.
2019-06-17T21:26:18 < jadew`> everyone here is romanian
2019-06-17T21:26:22 < jadew`> except you, of course
2019-06-17T21:26:44 < Steffanx> Yeah, im not. Romanians share everything. They even buy a coffee for 3 people.
2019-06-17T21:26:45 < Steffanx> fuck that
2019-06-17T21:26:55 < jadew`> lol Steffanx 
2019-06-17T21:27:00 < Steffanx> *single coffee to share with 3
2019-06-17T21:27:04 < jadew`> you haven't met me
2019-06-17T21:27:15 < jadew`> I barely share drinks with my wife
2019-06-17T21:27:56 < Steffanx> no sir.
2019-06-17T21:27:57 < jadew`> don't let him, he might steal something
2019-06-17T21:29:57 < Steffanx> My official title is "project engineer". But that's just a fancy title for: Do your job as a embedde sw engineer.
2019-06-17T21:30:02 < Steffanx> embedded
2019-06-17T21:31:47 < jadew`> what do the boys do?
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2019-06-17T21:33:21 < jadew`> what kind of telekom devices?
2019-06-17T21:33:37 < bitmask> woot, just watched ben's new video (applied science) and he has the same calipers as me
2019-06-17T21:34:52 < jadew`> bitmask, I can't find his caliper
2019-06-17T21:35:59 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/VpRrP3sqQLw?t=778
2019-06-17T21:36:03 < bitmask> bottom left
2019-06-17T21:36:39 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HP78SU4/
2019-06-17T21:37:27 < jadew`> isn't that starett?
2019-06-17T21:37:28 < bitmask> psh
2019-06-17T21:37:32 < bitmask> not at all
2019-06-17T21:37:38 < bitmask> is that a joke?
2019-06-17T21:37:47 < jadew`> *starrett
2019-06-17T21:38:26 < bitmask> haha
2019-06-17T21:38:26 < bitmask> oh
2019-06-17T21:38:35 < bitmask> I was wondering what was going on
2019-06-17T21:39:12 < jadew`> yeah, it's almost as good as the japanese ones I have :P
2019-06-17T21:40:11 < Thorn> I ordered another $21 crimp tool from aliexpress :/
2019-06-17T21:40:39 < jadew`> boddax, mitutoyo, they're considered the best
2019-06-17T21:41:20 < jadew`> starrett is probably on the same level tho, I was kidding about "almost as good"
2019-06-17T21:42:10 < jadew`> bitmask, is that a new caliper?
2019-06-17T21:42:21 < jadew`> any reason why you didn't go for the igaging one?
2019-06-17T21:42:37 < bitmask> nope, ive had it for at least 6 months
2019-06-17T21:42:45 < jadew`> ah
2019-06-17T21:43:15 < jadew`> I would have gotten the igaging one if it wasn't so expensive here
2019-06-17T21:43:31 < bitmask> nothing
2019-06-17T21:45:48 < jadew`> that vinca one looks good too
2019-06-17T21:46:07 < jadew`> bitmask, how does it slide?
2019-06-17T21:46:48 < bitmask> fine? its my first, don't really have anything to compare it to, but it never even occurred to me that it could be a problem with some
2019-06-17T21:47:39 < bitmask> but people who begin to need glasses don't realize it right away either until they get tested :P
2019-06-17T21:47:41 < jadew`> bitmask, yeah, cheap ones are not very smooth, but I see that one has a nice groove
2019-06-17T21:50:51 < bitmask> how do you figure out the amount of torque you need to spin an impeller? choosing a motor for a specific task isn't that easy.  If you know what speed you want, you still can't figure out what wattage you need until you know the torque.  and how do you get torque measurements for your impeller?
2019-06-17T21:51:37 < bitmask> at these ratings, I cant just buy a few and test it out, they are too expensive
2019-06-17T21:51:49 < bitmask> :)
2019-06-17T21:52:48 < bitmask> let me see if I have a scale I can weigh it on or at least estimate
2019-06-17T21:53:43 < jadew`> bitmask, I assume the torque depends on the speed you want because the higher the speed the more difficult it will be to move air
2019-06-17T21:54:00 < jadew`> so I guess you have to measure some sort of constant for the impeller
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2019-06-17T21:55:16 < jadew`> you can probably do that with any motor that can spin it fast enough
2019-06-17T21:55:25 < jadew`> procedure that comes to mind:
2019-06-17T21:55:37 < jadew`> 1) measure power of motor spinning without impeller.
2019-06-17T21:55:55 < jadew`> 2) measure power of motor spinning without impeller at a lower speed (PWM it).
2019-06-17T21:56:13 < jadew`> 3) measure power at full speed with impeller, calculate difference.
2019-06-17T21:56:37 < jadew`> 4) measure power at lower speed (like before), calculate difference.
2019-06-17T21:56:52 < jadew`> I guess you'll have to control the speed for this experiment
2019-06-17T21:57:27 < jadew`> but then you'll have the required power to spin that impeller at 2 points, maybe get another point and see what kind of curve it is
2019-06-17T21:57:51 < jadew`> should then be easy to guess what power motor you need, based on the speed you want
2019-06-17T21:58:12 < jadew`> (take motor efficiency into account when selecting it too)
2019-06-17T21:59:17 < jadew`> you can improvise a tachometer easily
2019-06-17T21:59:25 < jadew`> especially if you have a frequency counter
2019-06-17T22:00:15 < jadew`> I guess you'll have to take motor efficiency into account when making the measurements too
2019-06-17T22:00:34 < jadew`> but I'm sure you can figure all this out with a single motor, that doesn't have to be fit for the job
2019-06-17T22:05:28 < bitmask> 175g
2019-06-17T22:05:32 < jadew`> boddax, you said you're repairing old stuff - what did you repair?
2019-06-17T22:05:46 < jadew`> bitmask, what's that?
2019-06-17T22:05:57 < bitmask> impeller weight
2019-06-17T22:06:17 < jadew`> bitmask, I don't think that matters for the torque calculation
2019-06-17T22:06:56 < jadew`> boddax, like what?
2019-06-17T22:07:14 < jadew`> what kind of equipment?
2019-06-17T22:07:31 < jadew`> audio, supplies, meters, RF?
2019-06-17T22:07:46 < jadew`> got it
2019-06-17T22:07:55 < jadew`> wanna buy a 20 GHz marconi sig gen? :P
2019-06-17T22:08:26 < jadew`> complains about about bad memory from time to time, but I think it might be a battery issue - not sure
2019-06-17T22:08:30 < jadew`> seems to work fine
2019-06-17T22:09:57 < jadew`> what frequency counters have you repaired?
2019-06-17T22:10:14 < jadew`> boddax, it keeps its amplitude OK
2019-06-17T22:10:20 < jadew`> so I don't think the calibration is out
2019-06-17T22:10:47 < jadew`> the frequency is off by a couple of MHz, because it's not synthesized, but I assume it can be calibrated
2019-06-17T22:11:00 < jadew`> which one?
2019-06-17T22:13:41 < jadew`> I don't have one of those
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2019-06-17T22:18:51 < jadew`> boddax, I see there are mods available for that counter
2019-06-17T22:19:24 < jadew`> does it have the 3rd channel too?
2019-06-17T22:20:49 < jadew`> what else have you repaired? I like old equipment
2019-06-17T22:22:52 < jadew`> lots of scopes
2019-06-17T22:23:20 < jadew`> weren't you afraid you'd end up needing one of those custom ICs nobody has
2019-06-17T22:24:07 < jadew`> nice
2019-06-17T22:28:47 < jadew`> I'm off to bed
2019-06-17T22:28:49 < jadew`> night
2019-06-17T22:30:22 < Steffanx> off to bed, is jadew` alright?
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2019-06-17T22:34:06 < Thorn> lol the tool is $4 cheaper on amazon than on aliexpress (but aliexpe include shipping)
2019-06-17T22:34:11 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2019-06-17T22:34:21 < Thorn> *aliexpress price
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2019-06-17T22:43:40 < mawk> ##electronics is useless when it comes to """theoretical""" electronics
2019-06-17T22:43:57 < mawk> or maybe they know who I vote for and I'm being prejudiced against
2019-06-17T22:47:30 < upgrdman> mawk, expecting IRC to give useful help... you aren't THAT new around here
2019-06-17T22:47:45 < mawk> for simple stuff they answer
2019-06-17T22:48:02 < mawk> the question was this Steffanx [20:42:05] .:mawk:. when we talk of intrinsic emitter resistance for a bjt we imagine it to be after the emitter right ? the voltage right before the resistance is what we call Ve
2019-06-17T22:48:57 < Steffanx> You should join ##physics for the more theoretical stuff
2019-06-17T22:50:16 < mawk> yeah
2019-06-17T22:50:29 < mawk> well it's not even quantum semiconductor or wave physics stuff
2019-06-17T22:50:35 < mawk> just basic electronics equations manipulation
2019-06-17T22:50:47 < upgrdman> ya but #elec is full of ardutards
2019-06-17T22:51:06 < mawk> Google isn't helpful all sites just say "intrinsic emitter resistance is 0.025/Ic" without justification of the computation
2019-06-17T22:51:20 < Steffanx> upgrdman isnt even there.
2019-06-17T22:51:34 < upgrdman> inorite. i should help them devolve
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2019-06-17T22:52:05 < upgrdman> any of you faggots use OpenJ9?
2019-06-17T22:55:04 < Steffanx> > java.
2019-06-17T22:55:18 < upgrdman> > faggots
2019-06-17T22:59:52 < upgrdman> ahhh those faggots trolled me. wanted auto-AOT-cump-piled java. "The AOT compiler is enabled by default, but is only active when shared classes are enabled. By default, shared classes are disabled so that no AOT activity occurs."
2019-06-17T23:13:29 < Cracki> what's up with you, I haven't heard you talk like that before
2019-06-17T23:13:48 < mawk> he got dongsed
2019-06-17T23:13:53 < upgrdman> Cracki, srsly? i used to talk like a child a LOT
2019-06-17T23:14:11 < upgrdman> i guess i spent a lot of time acting like an adult
2019-06-17T23:14:25 < upgrdman> prolly for the best. i guess being a child is a bit low class ;)
2019-06-17T23:15:17 < upgrdman> annoyingly, when enabled shared classes, the microsoftw anti-malware executable goes into 100% cpu usuage :( fucking ruins muh gains
2019-06-17T23:15:37 < upgrdman> guessing it look virus-ish with lots of code patching on-the-fly
2019-06-17T23:18:27 < Steffanx> this is all for your super high performance data plotter?
2019-06-17T23:18:46 < upgrdman> ya
2019-06-17T23:19:07 < upgrdman> well not super high perf yet. but better than most of "the competition"
2019-06-17T23:19:36 < upgrdman> i srsly don't know how the fuck so many alternatives fuck up charting. like no anti-aliasing, or slow ass rendering
2019-06-17T23:20:07 < upgrdman> and i have LOTS of areas where i can optimize more. LOTS of "low-hanging fruit"
2019-06-17T23:20:31 < upgrdman> low-hanging fruit at the CPU and GPU levels
2019-06-17T23:21:02 < upgrdman> my frequency domain chart isn't even using an FFT. just a O(n^2) DFT
2019-06-17T23:21:25 < upgrdman> and lots of places where i can cache stuff to reduce cpu/gpu loads
2019-06-17T23:21:30 < Steffanx> No more "Hey everyone"  i see. Last vid was 9 months ago
2019-06-17T23:31:17 < upgrdman> ya. been busy.
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2019-06-17T23:31:42 < upgrdman> also lots more new features for TelemetryViewer, but it needs moar testing before i should release it to ardutards
2019-06-17T23:33:36 < sync> mawk: look into the sze
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2019-06-17T23:35:15 < mawk> sze ?
2019-06-17T23:35:48 < mawk> https://www.amazon.fr/Physics-Semiconductor-Devices-Simon-Sze/dp/0471143235/ this ?
2019-06-17T23:35:55 < sync> yes
2019-06-17T23:35:57 < mawk> nice
2019-06-17T23:36:00 < mawk> I'll download it
2019-06-17T23:36:04 < mawk> thanks
2019-06-17T23:36:34 < sync> telecharger into le ordinatör
2019-06-17T23:37:41 < mawk> lol
2019-06-17T23:37:53 < mawk> almost perfect
2019-06-17T23:41:21 < Steffanx> ordinatör is that like german french?
2019-06-17T23:41:30 < mawk> yeah
2019-06-17T23:41:35 < mawk> ö is the right sound
2019-06-17T23:41:39 < mawk> for the french e
2019-06-17T23:41:50 < mawk> so ordinatör is phonetically perfect
2019-06-17T23:43:12 < Steffanx> so ever heard back from that company in les pays bas?
2019-06-17T23:43:19 < mawk> abel sensors ?
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2019-06-17T23:43:29 < mawk> I didn't send it yet, I need to write a motivation letter
2019-06-17T23:43:36 < mawk> I'm not very inspired
2019-06-17T23:43:43 < Steffanx> hah lol
2019-06-17T23:43:56 < mawk> also the fact the ad is in dutch is a bit intimidating
2019-06-17T23:44:06 < mawk> maybe they'll want me to speak a little dutch before coming
2019-06-17T23:44:07 < Steffanx> you never mentioned it was that company though
2019-06-17T23:44:08 < Steffanx> i think
2019-06-17T23:44:19 < mawk> because they surely won't start talking english with each other just because a non-dutch speaker came in their company
2019-06-17T23:44:36 < mawk> yeah I said it was abel sensor some days ago
2019-06-17T23:44:42 < mawk> but you weren't active, it was lost in backlog
2019-06-17T23:45:13 < Steffanx> i see
2019-06-17T23:45:51 < mawk> but anyway their job search ad describes perfectly what I know how to do
2019-06-17T23:45:54 < mawk> every single bullet point
2019-06-17T23:45:57 < mawk> excepted the dutch part
2019-06-17T23:46:28 < Steffanx> they dont mention dutch in the english version of the vacancu ;)
2019-06-17T23:46:30 < Steffanx> cy
2019-06-17T23:46:39 < mawk> ah there's an english version ?
2019-06-17T23:46:41 < Steffanx> Yeah
2019-06-17T23:46:43 < mawk> ah nice
2019-06-17T23:46:47 < mawk> so no dutch needed I guess
2019-06-17T23:46:49 < sync> you'll be confused, the dutch don't find the lightswitch on their autobahn
2019-06-17T23:46:56 < Steffanx> and "Resident in the Netherlands" is ... ok
2019-06-17T23:47:01 < Steffanx> *easy
2019-06-17T23:47:22 < mawk> lol
2019-06-17T23:47:27 < mawk> yeah I'll live there anyway
2019-06-17T23:47:29 < mawk> in delft
2019-06-17T23:47:47 < mawk> and I have passport, I learn fast the language, I did german in school, I speak good english
2019-06-17T23:48:02 < Steffanx> we'll switch them on when you'll stop with this Straßenarbeiten that take YEARS.
2019-06-17T23:48:03 < mawk> (not in this last sentence tho)
2019-06-17T23:48:09 < Steffanx> stop doing that sync.
2019-06-17T23:48:13 < mawk> lol
2019-06-17T23:48:20 < sync> haha
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2019-06-17T23:48:32 < sync> yeah, they need to get rid of money
2019-06-17T23:48:37 < sync> so they repair all the streets
2019-06-17T23:48:50 < Steffanx> 10s of km of Straßenarbeiten and you dont see anyone doing anything.
2019-06-17T23:48:56 < sync> yes of course
2019-06-17T23:49:07 < sync> it's a public project, why would anybody work?
2019-06-17T23:49:22 < mawk> french autobahnnen are the best in europe according to some european study
2019-06-17T23:49:30 < mawk> but also very expensive
2019-06-17T23:49:48 < sync> wut, when I was in paris a few months back they sucked hard
2019-06-17T23:49:51 < Steffanx> lol
2019-06-17T23:49:58 < sync> also the streets in paris...
2019-06-17T23:50:04 < Steffanx> imho dutchland isnt too bad, except for the lights maybe.
2019-06-17T23:50:09 < mawk> yeah the study is about the high speed roads specifically
2019-06-17T23:50:12 < Steffanx> Belgium on the other hand ...
2019-06-17T23:50:15 < mawk> paris streets aren't that great
2019-06-17T23:50:33 < sync> the stroopwafelbahns were ok
2019-06-17T23:50:39 < mawk> lol
2019-06-17T23:50:52 < sync> "high speed"
2019-06-17T23:50:54 < sync> :3
2019-06-17T23:51:03 < mawk> 130km/h
2019-06-17T23:51:03 < Steffanx> Paris isn't good for your car either. Good luck finding a car without a scratch or a bump.
2019-06-17T23:51:05 < mawk> very high speed
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2019-06-17T23:52:38 < sync> 130kmh is like 3rd gear speed
2019-06-17T23:53:04 < mawk> if you have the cop detector app on your phone you can go higher
2019-06-17T23:53:05 < Steffanx> I'm ok with 150
2019-06-17T23:53:19 < Steffanx> Aren't those very illegal in Germany?
2019-06-17T23:53:26 < mawk> illegal in france too
2019-06-17T23:53:34 < mawk> so now they removed any mention of cop in the app, they just signal "danger"
2019-06-17T23:53:43 < mawk> but everyone knows that danger means cop with speed measuring device
2019-06-17T23:55:48 < sync> I saw only a single police car on the whole trip
2019-06-17T23:56:09 < sync> lol yes, "Gefahrenstelle"
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2019-06-17T23:57:01 < kakimir> hello night crew
2019-06-17T23:58:32 < upgrdman> sup kak
2019-06-17T23:59:46 < kakimir> r6 carburetor mounts are fucked by apes
2019-06-17T23:59:59 < kakimir> nothin much
--- Day changed Tue Jun 18 2019
2019-06-18T00:00:07 < kakimir> ordered some good condition ones from UK
2019-06-18T00:00:35 < kakimir> mine are totally cracked and there is high likelyhood of leak that causes all the problems
2019-06-18T00:00:37 < kakimir> *leaks
2019-06-18T00:00:57 < kakimir> there is laborous process to remove carburetors
2019-06-18T00:01:25 < kakimir> or then just go full ape and pull it with force
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2019-06-18T00:03:24 < kakimir> upgrdman: you busy?
2019-06-18T00:03:31 < kakimir> howe is business?
2019-06-18T00:04:15 < upgrdman> kakimir, ya kinda busy. what's up?
2019-06-18T00:04:34 < kakimir> me too
2019-06-18T00:04:40 -!- sterna [~Adium@2.64.32.106.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2019-06-18T00:05:01 < kakimir> I have had one day off if one week doing R6 engine doesn't count
2019-06-18T00:05:15 < kakimir> this summer
2019-06-18T00:05:28 < upgrdman> kakimir, not sure if you were one of many people to ask for these features in TelemetryViewer, but: next version will support time as the x-axis, and will support replaying a saved CSV file
2019-06-18T00:05:39 < Steffanx> Found a new job yet? Or not even looking kakimir  ?
2019-06-18T00:05:40 < kakimir> I am
2019-06-18T00:05:58 < kakimir> I want you to fix decimal separator issues
2019-06-18T00:06:33 < Steffanx> Lol.
2019-06-18T00:06:45 < kakimir> upgrdman: I will always want that
2019-06-18T00:06:56 < Steffanx> It doesn't accept 1.000,01?
2019-06-18T00:07:10 < kakimir> it does
2019-06-18T00:07:16 < Steffanx> But
2019-06-18T00:07:32 < kakimir> but things start to go wrong if your locale is fi to say
2019-06-18T00:07:39 < kakimir> system settings you know
2019-06-18T00:08:01 < upgrdman> kakimir, so you tried with other locale and problem went away?
2019-06-18T00:08:07 < kakimir> nope
2019-06-18T00:08:16 < kakimir> I have seen similar stuff
2019-06-18T00:08:30 < Steffanx> Just dont use .fi locale.
2019-06-18T00:08:53 < kakimir> virtualization is an option
2019-06-18T00:08:58 < Steffanx> Using an os in non-English.. you deserve the pain
2019-06-18T00:09:00 < kakimir> I did that for another application
2019-06-18T00:09:22 < kakimir> that was from early 2000's so it was given
2019-06-18T00:11:55 < upgrdman> kakimir, if you feel like trying a different locale to see if the rpoblem goes away, that'd help convince me that this problem is easily reproduced and worth fixing
2019-06-18T00:12:03 < upgrdman> im too lazy to try it now
2019-06-18T00:12:54 < Steffanx> Is your stuff open sores upgrdman ?
2019-06-18T00:12:59 < upgrdman> yes
2019-06-18T00:13:05 < upgrdman> shithub and everything
2019-06-18T00:13:37 < Steffanx> Ah so kakimir  can fix it
2019-06-18T00:13:58 < kakimir> I don't plan to
2019-06-18T00:14:02 < upgrdman> k
2019-06-18T00:14:12 < Steffanx> Damn you kakimir  
2019-06-18T00:14:15 < upgrdman> if other eurofags bitch about it, i'll look into it more
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2019-06-18T00:14:32 < kakimir> fair enough
2019-06-18T00:15:49 < Steffanx> Last commit 2 years ago, upgrdman  ...
2019-06-18T00:16:22 < Steffanx> Hm 2 repos
2019-06-18T00:16:50 < kakimir> give him some slack man.. he has been hustlin around the world latelly
2019-06-18T00:18:14 < kakimir> what are you doing for works upgrdman?
2019-06-18T00:18:27 < jly> sounds all fucked up.
2019-06-18T00:18:42 < kakimir> situation normal
2019-06-18T00:19:08 < kakimir> all fucked up
2019-06-18T00:20:34 < kakimir> Steffanx: have not had much time to do extensive applying for jubbs
2019-06-18T00:20:43 < kakimir> excessive*
2019-06-18T00:21:55 < kakimir> 90% of jubs: backend developer, full stack developer, software developer senior position
2019-06-18T00:23:27 < kakimir> maybe few of those last 10% are something that are pretty close to my skills but I lack skills like doing networking on embedded application
2019-06-18T00:24:36 < upgrdman> Steffanx, heh ya, the old repo was before i knew how to use git properly :) gave up and made a new repo
2019-06-18T00:24:56 < upgrdman> https://github.com/farrellf/TelemetryViewer/tree/master/Telemetry%20Viewer/src
2019-06-18T00:25:08 < upgrdman> but lots of commits on my PC that are not yet pushed to shithub
2019-06-18T00:25:18 < upgrdman> i don't want complaints before i do more testing
2019-06-18T00:25:26 < sync> why not make a #yolo branch and puush
2019-06-18T00:25:42 < kakimir> that is how you do it!
2019-06-18T00:26:14 < zyp> money for nothing and your chicks for free
2019-06-18T00:27:35 < kakimir> that song makes me feel like I need a Harley
2019-06-18T00:28:53 < upgrdman> sync, too lazy to deal with comments. also i tend to refactor shit / clean shit often. since this is a lot of "this is the first time i learned how to do $x"
2019-06-18T00:31:13 < Steffanx> Where is beaky 
2019-06-18T00:32:25 < upgrdman> im also really want to make my own data logger board. not sure how retarded i want to get. maybe 250MSPS ADCs with USB3... 
2019-06-18T00:32:46 < upgrdman> and then add lots to support that in my software. triggering, compute shaders, etc.
2019-06-18T00:34:13 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-06-18T00:35:56 < upgrdman> also not sure how fucked i'd be, trying to processing gigabits of telemetry every seconds
2019-06-18T00:36:06 < upgrdman> let alone chart it
2019-06-18T00:36:15 < kakimir> start with full retarded
2019-06-18T00:36:19 < kakimir> then tune it down
2019-06-18T00:36:32 < upgrdman> ya.
2019-06-18T00:36:47 < upgrdman> 8 channels of 250MSPS, 16 channels of digital, USB3... 
2019-06-18T00:37:04 < upgrdman> drooling over some 250MSPS 14bit ADCs
2019-06-18T00:37:13 < upgrdman> but can't even shit that onto USB3 fast enough
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2019-06-18T00:37:54 < kakimir> 250MSPS sounds mental
2019-06-18T00:38:02 < upgrdman> but i can't bother with it now. chinagirl wants to go traveling. i'm gonna be broke as fuck
2019-06-18T00:38:17 < kakimir> you got china girl :p
2019-06-18T00:38:25 < upgrdman> ya, a while ago
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2019-06-18T00:40:05 < Steffanx> Isnt a China girl meant to make stuff cheaper?
2019-06-18T00:40:15 < Steffanx> Make/get
2019-06-18T00:40:34 < upgrdman> heh
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2019-06-18T01:46:18 < Thorn> worst case scheduling error = 0 ms
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2019-06-18T03:42:45 < zyp> Thorn, how is your mac different from 802.15.4?
2019-06-18T03:45:58 < mawk> wew I just computed DC operating point of common emitter amplifier with negative feedback
2019-06-18T03:46:04 < mawk> now I understand why we use SPICE and stuff for this
2019-06-18T03:46:05 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Negative_Feedback.html
2019-06-18T03:46:48 < zyp> shit like that is why I prefer to stick to digital electronics as far as possible :p
2019-06-18T03:46:57 < mawk> + 11 pages of my notebook
2019-06-18T03:47:02 < mawk> lol
2019-06-18T03:47:53 < mawk> at least the calculations are right, I get V_BE = 652 mV, it checks out
2019-06-18T03:49:15 < zyp> analog electronics is a pile of small dumb components tied together with a lot of complicated math, I don't see much fun in that :p
2019-06-18T03:50:03 < mawk> the fun is in the maths
2019-06-18T03:50:29 < mawk> also stuff like feedback is like intelligent dumb
2019-06-18T03:50:33 < mawk> it's almost magical
2019-06-18T03:52:00 < zyp> I prefer digital electronics; for simple shit you can just ignore the analog properies of the signals
2019-06-18T03:52:06 < mawk> yeah
2019-06-18T03:53:21 < zyp> and once you have to start thinking about transmission lines that's not too hard either
2019-06-18T03:58:02 < zyp> i.e. most complicated shit I tend to have to deal with is power stuff
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2019-06-18T04:03:09 < aandrew> zyp: high speed digital really isn't all that different
2019-06-18T04:03:33 < mawk> now I have a dilemma, circuitjs doesn't display the same values
2019-06-18T04:03:48 -!- gsi__ [~gsisig@x4db96ca8.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-06-18T04:03:49 < mawk> my values look more reasonable, 500mV VBE what is that
2019-06-18T04:04:13 < mawk> I should try with SPICE
2019-06-18T04:06:56 < mawk> ah I know, it's the saturation current value
2019-06-18T04:07:02 < mawk> now I totally agree with circuitjs
2019-06-18T04:07:13 < mawk> my calculus ego is now fully inflated
2019-06-18T04:08:02 < aandrew> lol
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2019-06-18T05:16:43 < aandrew> hm, apparently the selection filter is a new feature in altium 18+
2019-06-18T05:16:45 < aandrew> don't see it in 17.1
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2019-06-18T06:12:01 < dongs> why teh FUCKING NIGGER FUCK does place->part in FUCKING SCHEMATIC EDITOR brings up the project pcblib first
2019-06-18T06:12:07 < dongs> fucking retarded altium garbage nigger
2019-06-18T06:12:22 < dongs> YOU CANT EVEN PLACE A FUCKING PCBLIB PART ON SCHEMATIC WHY IS IT EVEN IN THE LIST
2019-06-18T06:15:54 < dongs> every god damn time i pp a new part, it defaults to pcblib
2019-06-18T06:16:02 < dongs> fuck off, piece of shit
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2019-06-18T06:19:19 < dongs> i guess im gonna have to completely block altidumb from using the browser
2019-06-18T06:19:26 < dongs> even if i have to deal wiht drc reports opening in a new window
2019-06-18T06:19:46 < dongs> the dumb thing doens't understand that I dont want every part search going to theri fucking retarded live vault
2019-06-18T06:19:57 < dongs> and keeps suggesting me parts from there even tho I specifically refused that
2019-06-18T06:26:05 < dongs> nope.
2019-06-18T06:26:08 < dongs> it sitll fucking searches
2019-06-18T06:26:09 < dongs> god damn
2019-06-18T06:26:41 < dongs> FUCK ALTIUM; ALTIUM SUX; ALTIUM IS DYING; ALTIUM IS DEAD TO ME; ALTIUM HIT WTC
2019-06-18T06:28:09 < dongs> is it because so many people just do not give a fuck that they keep doing this sorta shit?
2019-06-18T06:28:16 < dongs> god damn cunts
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2019-06-18T06:49:07 < jadew`> Steffanx, I'm trying to sleep at normal hours
2019-06-18T06:49:27 < dongs> good plan
2019-06-18T06:49:29 < dongs> why are you awake now
2019-06-18T06:49:35 < jadew`> dongs, why don't you use an older version?
2019-06-18T06:49:52 < jadew`> dongs, wife's alarm woke me up
2019-06-18T06:50:22 < jadew`> sh has it ringing an hour before when she has to wake up
2019-06-18T06:50:41 < jadew`> *she
2019-06-18T06:50:50 < dongs> i dont know, i dont mind improvements in 18
2019-06-18T06:50:51 < dongs> but like
2019-06-18T06:50:55 < dongs> the regressions, fuck off
2019-06-18T06:50:57 < R2COM> yo ssup
2019-06-18T06:51:05 < R2COM> niggas
2019-06-18T06:51:26 < dongs> R2COM: unisntalling altium, installing cuckcad
2019-06-18T06:51:31 < jadew`> dongs, you should complain, maybe they'll listen
2019-06-18T06:53:09 < dongs> jadew`: there's bugs on the forum that havent been fixed in literally decade
2019-06-18T06:53:16 < dongs> do you think they're gonna listen to one raging user?
2019-06-18T06:53:59 < R2COM> im just using my orcad and it just works
2019-06-18T06:54:32 < R2COM> they made some massive updates, but my home version not updated, still good to use
2019-06-18T06:54:40 < dongs> does orcad have some retarded online parts library they force you to use
2019-06-18T06:54:46 < dongs> when all you want to do is MAKE YOUR OWN PARTS 
2019-06-18T06:55:22 < R2COM> no you are not required to use any online shit
2019-06-18T06:55:30 < R2COM> i only use my parts
2019-06-18T06:57:52 < R2COM> at my work i have those "june pride" posters sticked all over in office
2019-06-18T06:58:06 < R2COM> like im in some fucking gay club, not industrial company building
2019-06-18T06:58:41 < R2COM> i dont udnerstand why would someone bring sexual related stuff into professional environment
2019-06-18T06:58:58 < R2COM> "national pride"
2019-06-18T06:59:12 < R2COM> i dont recall posters related to space or moonlanding around
2019-06-18T06:59:25 < R2COM> but men sucking each others cock nowadays is "national pride"
2019-06-18T06:59:59 < R2COM> what a shock
2019-06-18T07:00:36 < jadew`> you're trying to justify gay posters in your office by saying someone else put them there?
2019-06-18T07:01:19 < R2COM> no im saying its not a proper place to put such posters there
2019-06-18T07:01:25 < jadew`> that aside, I think it's quite common in industrial buildings
2019-06-18T07:01:36 < R2COM> its wrong
2019-06-18T07:01:56 < dongs> june pride?
2019-06-18T07:02:02 < dongs> is june a faggot month or something?
2019-06-18T07:02:03 < jadew`> it's usually chicks
2019-06-18T07:02:05 < R2COM> yeah, that faggot shit
2019-06-18T07:02:06 < R2COM> yes
2019-06-18T07:41:40 < dongs> ohh fucking classic
2019-06-18T07:41:50 < dongs> so when thre's too many sheets in altium shit tabbed UI
2019-06-18T07:42:01 < dongs> it condenses them all into a tab that you click to expand
2019-06-18T07:42:14 < dongs> so if you have a split window / separate monitors
2019-06-18T07:42:25 < dongs> and you want to move ONE of those grouped sheets into the other window/monitor/split
2019-06-18T07:42:28 < dongs> it DSOESNT FUCKIN WORK
2019-06-18T07:42:38 < dongs> it will drag the ENTIRE FUCKING GROUP
2019-06-18T07:43:04 < dongs> and there's no way to ungroup cuz it arbitrarily decides when shit works or not
2019-06-18T07:45:38 < R2COM> jeez, just download latest cadence bro
2019-06-18T07:45:46 < R2COM> its really good with so many updates 
2019-06-18T07:45:50 < R2COM> stop using this shit
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2019-06-18T08:00:19 < dongs> cuckcad has no updates
2019-06-18T08:00:35 < R2COM> it does
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2019-06-18T08:18:07 < dongs> no
2019-06-18T08:18:13 < dongs> it still draws using GDI
2019-06-18T08:18:14 < dongs> in 2019
2019-06-18T08:18:23 < dongs> and has a 'redraw wall' menu item
2019-06-18T08:18:29 < dongs> er ,redraw all
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2019-06-18T08:20:37 < dongs> https://www.256kilobytes.com/content/show/1939/biography-of-terry-a-davis-the-greatest-programmer-to-ever-live
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2019-06-18T09:10:51 < jadew`> dongs, I bet there's going to be a movie made about this guy at some point
2019-06-18T09:12:41 < jadew`> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Lr8NqVXu6s
2019-06-18T09:22:05 < jadew`> https://templeos.fandom.com/wiki/FAQ#Who_is_Dianna.3F
2019-06-18T09:28:53 < dongs> lol
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2019-06-18T09:42:48 < dongs> lol intel gfx driver restarted while i was altiuming hard
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2019-06-18T12:34:30 < dongs> what the hell can i use to replace http://www.ti.com/product/TPS22860
2019-06-18T12:35:37 < dongs> something in nA range for quiescent and leakage currents
2019-06-18T12:35:44 < dongs> all the shit i see are in uA range
2019-06-18T12:35:49 < dongs> usually 10-100uA
2019-06-18T12:38:10 < zyp> why do you need to replace it? too expensive?
2019-06-18T12:38:37 < dongs> yes and not in china
2019-06-18T12:38:46 < dongs> SiP32431  is close but also not in china (alkmost0
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2019-06-18T13:01:17 < sync> maybe the chinacloners have not figured out how to do ultra low leakage switches
2019-06-18T13:01:35 < dongs> haha
2019-06-18T13:05:00 < dongs> these cunts have me looking at SGP30 but they wanna use it with battery, i think this will be a crapshoot anyway
2019-06-18T13:05:08 < dongs> cuz it has a literal hotplate inside
2019-06-18T13:05:12 < dongs> so it draws like 50mA to heat it up
2019-06-18T13:05:42 < dongs> i can't find heatup timing statistics but i can't imagine it being very fast
2019-06-18T13:07:25 < zyp> what are you gonna switch?
2019-06-18T13:07:38 < zyp> looks like hotplate power is timed internally
2019-06-18T13:07:41 < dongs> power to a bunch of i2c sensors including that thing
2019-06-18T13:07:56 < dongs> cuz they dont need to be on most of hte time
2019-06-18T13:09:14 < zyp> looks like that shit takes like 15 seconds to start up
2019-06-18T13:09:34 < zyp> "For the first 15s after the “Init_air_quality” command the sensor is in an initialization phase during which a “Measure_air_quality” command returns fixed values of 400 ppm CO2eq and 0 ppb TVOC"
2019-06-18T13:10:29 < dongs> is that from datasheet? or aidsfruit site
2019-06-18T13:10:38 < zyp> datashit
2019-06-18T13:10:57 < dongs> ok found
2019-06-18T13:11:06 < dongs> i was looking in tables
2019-06-18T13:11:08 < dongs> for timing stuff
2019-06-18T13:14:52 < specing> Aren't there passive CO2 sensors?
2019-06-18T13:14:55 < karlp> heh, was just looking at an alcohol sensor thing I bought a few years ago, same shit, 5V, 900mW hot plate based sensor
2019-06-18T13:15:05 < specing> How do those wall mounted units last a year on alkaleaks?
2019-06-18T13:15:15 < specing> they cant be using sensors that burn 50 mA
2019-06-18T13:15:25 < zyp> these are not CO2 sensors
2019-06-18T13:16:21 < karlp> "CO2eq output is based on a hydrogen measurement. The SGP is not suited for applications where real CO2 detection is required."
2019-06-18T13:16:38 < karlp> what does multi pixel mean for these SGP things?
2019-06-18T13:17:12 < karlp> hrm, just "multiple sensing elements, but we're only giving you one value anyway" I guess.
2019-06-18T13:18:25 < dongs> security by obscurity
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2019-06-18T13:46:33 < dongs> https://uglyduck.vajn.icu/HC-SR04E/HC-SR04.svgz haha
2019-06-18T13:46:45 < dongs> abusing MAX232 to make HV pulse for ultrasonic thing
2019-06-18T13:50:36 < karlp> what hv pulse? what is that em78p thing?
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2019-06-18T14:03:43 < sync> karlp: +-12V
2019-06-18T14:04:39 < karlp> doens't the hc-sr04 stuff just uses 5V though, or at least, the ones I've seen. 
2019-06-18T14:07:22 < dongs> yes, because it makes 12V using max232
2019-06-18T14:07:27 < karlp> oh, htat's the internal schematic of the modules
2019-06-18T14:07:30 < dongs> yes
2019-06-18T14:07:45 < dongs> and some chinq MCU for doing the driving
2019-06-18T14:19:07 < karlp> so that guy made it a spi slave instead, still 5V. not sure what the win was there https://uglyduck.vajn.icu/HC-SR04E/HC-SR04E.svgz
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2019-06-18T14:22:19 < superbia> hola pendejos
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2019-06-18T14:38:18 < karlp> heh, loras in spaaaacccce https://www.mwee.com/news/major-milestone-lora-space?news_id=118650
2019-06-18T14:38:55 < superbia> karlp: is that like iridium
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2019-06-18T18:20:33 < qyx> interesting idea
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2019-06-18T21:32:01 < Cracki> quick survey: for connecting to windows vista/7/..., tightvnc or ultravnc or what else? I'm wondering which VNC to give some love so they can capture aero/DWM faster
2019-06-18T21:32:30 < jpa-> why not rdp?
2019-06-18T21:32:39 < Cracki> (RDP kills gpu acceleration (cuda) for at least one video editing program, even when it's just batch-encoding stuff)
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2019-06-18T21:51:44 < Cracki> uvnc then, because that has at least SVN source control
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2019-06-18T22:19:54 < qyx> ok, for protecting voltage measurement inputs from a bad, bad, low impedance battery
2019-06-18T22:20:34 < qyx> chip fuse is apparently not enough because of low breaking capacity
2019-06-18T22:20:50 < qyx> high input impedance & zener is probably doable
2019-06-18T22:21:16 < qyx> but what if I have a current sensing amp on the input which limits resistors on its inputs to < 10R
2019-06-18T22:21:42 < qyx> maybe a polyfuse, but there is >60V
2019-06-18T22:22:16 < qyx> or just meh because yolo
2019-06-18T22:23:20 < Cracki> how exactly could your high current battery endanger a *voltage* measurement?
2019-06-18T22:24:16 < qyx> arbitrary errors, foreign metal parts, oxidation, etc
2019-06-18T22:24:58 < qyx> other than that, wire breakage, insulation melting
2019-06-18T22:25:13 < qyx> in that case the fuse/resistor must be mounted in the battery terminal or so
2019-06-18T22:25:39 < qyx> many things may go wrong
2019-06-18T22:27:32 < jpa-> so what's wrong with just a normal fuse?
2019-06-18T22:28:07 < qyx> they are not able to break >1000A
2019-06-18T22:28:16 < qyx> the small ones I mean
2019-06-18T22:29:30 < qyx> oh wait what
2019-06-18T22:29:38 < qyx> Special Application Fuses
2019-06-18T22:29:39 < qyx> 242 Series Barrier Network Fuse
2019-06-18T22:29:44 < jpa-> .. so if you are dealing with 1000A, don't use the tiniest of tiny fuses?
2019-06-18T22:30:16 < qyx> yeah but I am not mounting 22x50 fuses on the inputs
2019-06-18T22:30:27 < jpa-> why not?
2019-06-18T22:30:46 < jpa-> (you should probably mount them on the outputs in the battery though)
2019-06-18T22:31:30 < Cracki> help me out here, voltage measurement is typically high impedance, so low current. havinga high current source or not should make little difference and should not hurt the measuring side. high *voltage* (maybe from some inductance) otoh... but you didn't say that
2019-06-18T22:31:35 < qyx> there are two on the pos and neg terminals (63A 100Vdc, 50kA breaking capacity)
2019-06-18T22:32:09 < jpa-> ok, so the chipfuse in the meter only needs to handle 63A then?
2019-06-18T22:32:19 < jpa-> Cracki: yeah, if things are working correctly
2019-06-18T22:32:25 < qyx> no, because the meter is cell-connected
2019-06-18T22:32:48 < qyx> thats the source of the problem
2019-06-18T22:33:02 < jpa-> qyx: so what's the deal about the current sensing amp?
2019-06-18T22:33:15 < jpa-> otherwise a few series resistors to guarantee high-impedance could be enough
2019-06-18T22:33:15 < qyx> thats a different story
2019-06-18T22:33:24 < Cracki> I don't know that term and a quick google doesn't help. pls explain?
2019-06-18T22:33:37 < qyx> yeah but the current sensing diff amp only allows small resistance on the input
2019-06-18T22:33:46 < qyx> otherwise the resistances must be well matched
2019-06-18T22:34:00 < jpa-> qyx: but what does a current sensing amp have to do with voltage measurement? isn't that a whole different thing?
2019-06-18T22:34:11 < qyx> I said that :)
2019-06-18T22:34:17 < qyx> but in the same device
2019-06-18T22:34:44 < jpa-> so protect the voltage side one way and current amp some other way :P
2019-06-18T22:34:54 < qyx> in the current sensing amp thing you additionally have to limit the impedance, in the voltage measurement inputs you can have high impedance
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2019-06-18T22:35:44 < qyx> Cracki: you are protecting the whole thing from a malfunctioning device
2019-06-18T22:36:14 < qyx> if the measuring device is working properly then it is ok, but thats sometimes not the case
2019-06-18T22:37:21 < jpa-> qyx: is the allowed 10ohm input impedance enough to limit the current to below the breaking capacity of chipfuses?
2019-06-18T22:38:36 < qyx> yeah it seems you are leaning towards the same idea
2019-06-18T22:38:55 < jpa-> just put tiny pcb traces and have them blow off :P
2019-06-18T22:38:57 < qyx> 10R + 100mA fuse in series
2019-06-18T22:40:24 < qyx> the resistor would probably disintegrate sonner than the fuse breaks though
2019-06-18T22:40:28 < qyx> idk if it works
2019-06-18T22:40:48 < jpa-> why would it?
2019-06-18T22:41:53 < jpa-> chip resistors and chip fuses are quite similar, except one of them is designed to be weak
2019-06-18T22:42:06 < qyx> mhm
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2019-06-18T23:48:54 < upgrdman> cool. the eclipse fags finally added support for displaying parameter names  https://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/news/4.12/jdt.php#parameter-name-codemining
2019-06-18T23:49:13 < upgrdman> looks kinda ugly, but it's a step in the right direction i guess
2019-06-18T23:49:49 < upgrdman> hopefully they make it so the names can float above the args on mouseover... that'd be sweet
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--- Day changed Wed Jun 19 2019
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2019-06-19T00:03:26 < karlp> is that shit meant to be _new_?
2019-06-19T00:03:30 < karlp> for _java_?
2019-06-19T00:03:35 < karlp> fuck me, get thee to intellij
2019-06-19T00:04:06 < upgrdman> inorite
2019-06-19T00:04:13 < upgrdman> IDEA looks nice
2019-06-19T00:04:22 < karlp> community edition does ~most stuff anyway
2019-06-19T00:04:45 < upgrdman> but im used to eclipse, so *shrugs* good enough
2019-06-19T00:05:59 < jly> it's either 'Ns' or 'Fs'
2019-06-19T00:06:02 < upgrdman> TBF i think idea only got that feature like a year or two ago
2019-06-19T00:06:36 < upgrdman> surprised it hasn't been a staple in every IDE since the dawn of antialiased text
2019-06-19T00:07:46 < karlp> I might not be understanding it right then
2019-06-19T00:08:23 < upgrdman> karlp, the names of parameters are shown next to the arguments
2019-06-19T00:09:18 < upgrdman> e.g. if a function declared as "void nigger(int dicks)" and you write "nigger(69)" it'll show "nigger(dicks: 69)" so you know what the arguments mean
2019-06-19T00:09:30 < Cracki> neat
2019-06-19T00:09:46 < upgrdman> useful with APIs that have ass loads of arguments, especially when they're all the same date type
2019-06-19T00:10:42 < upgrdman> annoying to read code that is like "doSomething(2, 33, 1.5, 789, 0);" and you're thinking WTF do those magic numbers mean
2019-06-19T00:10:45 < Cracki> java needs named arguments
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2019-06-19T00:11:08 < upgrdman> i'd say fixing it at the IDE-level is fine. no need to dick with the language
2019-06-19T00:12:02 < jly> https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/germanys-angela-merkel-fine-after-shaking-uncontrollably-at-ceremony-during-heatwave/news-story/9332a20190cc4a7e0e987e125da1046d
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2019-06-19T00:12:42 < karlp> iirc, that wasin intellij if you moused into it, but not via that weird thing some modern ides are doing whhere they display it differently until you put your cursor into it.
2019-06-19T00:12:43 < Thorn> kotlin has named arguments
2019-06-19T00:13:03 < upgrdman> yes, and verilog has em too
2019-06-19T00:13:04 < karlp> (if your api has an assload of arguments, it's an assload of an api? ;)
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2019-06-19T00:13:23 < upgrdman> karlp, yes... but you use what's available or already in use
2019-06-19T00:13:27 < upgrdman> :(
2019-06-19T00:14:08 < karlp> I know, hence the ;)
2019-06-19T00:14:08 < upgrdman> also totally on topic: strawberry banana mango smoothies are SOOOOO good
2019-06-19T00:14:35 < upgrdman> tonight i'll try coconut mango
2019-06-19T00:14:46 < upgrdman> it was a bitch de-fleshing the coconut
2019-06-19T00:14:55 < upgrdman> it better be fucking orgasmic to drink
2019-06-19T00:17:40 < karlp> yummy delicious food miles
2019-06-19T00:19:19 < Steffanx> Smoothies are overrated 
2019-06-19T00:19:25 < Steffanx> So is coconut
2019-06-19T00:26:02 < upgrdman> a good smoothie is better than a stroopwafel (fight me /s)
2019-06-19T00:27:19 < Cracki> stroopwafel smoothie
2019-06-19T00:28:11 < upgrdman> one of my tupperware lids cracked when i opened one that was in my freezer. wtf. modern science cant make a cheap lid not brittle at a ~-5C? bastards
2019-06-19T00:28:16 < upgrdman> Cracki, good idea actually
2019-06-19T00:29:59 < Steffanx> You need 20 years old Tupperware. That stuff didn't break
2019-06-19T00:30:15 < Cracki> what have I done
2019-06-19T00:30:48 < Cracki> blending a wafel is like shaking the fizz out of fizzy water
2019-06-19T00:31:11 < upgrdman> haha
2019-06-19T00:33:42 < Steffanx> You didn't have the proper stroomwafels yet upgrdman  
2019-06-19T00:34:09 < upgrdman> k
2019-06-19T00:34:25 < Steffanx> Not those fake dutch waffles
2019-06-19T00:34:28 < upgrdman> deluxe edition poopwafels
2019-06-19T00:35:20 < Steffanx> You China girl wanted to go on a trip right? Better visit dutchland
2019-06-19T00:35:29 < Cracki> sweet jesus, pooh! that's not chocolate
2019-06-19T00:36:10 < upgrdman> Steffanx, ya but im a cheap jew. gonna try to make it cheap. maybe just journey across china or other adjacent third-world countries
2019-06-19T00:36:26 < Steffanx> Awh
2019-06-19T00:36:41 < upgrdman> if possible, im going to delay until winter time anyway. vacationing in the summer is fucking shit
2019-06-19T00:37:00 < upgrdman> sweat dripping off your balls when you're supposed to be enjoying the view, etc.
2019-06-19T00:37:23 < mawk> lol
2019-06-19T00:37:37 < kakimir> dutchland is not hot
2019-06-19T00:38:04 < mawk> kakisback
2019-06-19T00:38:23 < Steffanx> The alternative is icicles?
2019-06-19T00:38:41 < Steffanx> Kakisblack*
2019-06-19T00:38:41 < upgrdman> yes. freeze my nipples plz
2019-06-19T00:39:09 < upgrdman> hmm. does dutchland require visas for 'muricans or chinks?
2019-06-19T00:40:23 < kakimir> no and yes
2019-06-19T00:41:17 < kakimir> we went to dutchland
2019-06-19T00:41:21 < kakimir> then to italy
2019-06-19T00:41:31 < kakimir> then you know dutchland is not that hot
2019-06-19T00:41:56 < Cracki> there you go https://i.imgflip.com/33ryzr.jpg
2019-06-19T00:42:14 < Steffanx> Yankees probably not, Chinese probably yes 
2019-06-19T00:43:15 < Steffanx> Everything over 19-20C is hot. So dutchland is hot, kakimir  
2019-06-19T00:43:42 < kakimir> true
2019-06-19T00:44:11 < kakimir> when we were in there it was super humid
2019-06-19T00:44:37 < kakimir> but just 21C or so
2019-06-19T00:45:40 < kakimir> didn't know you could have warm air and almost fogging condition both at same time
2019-06-19T00:46:29 < kakimir> sea things
2019-06-19T00:47:01 < Cracki> does it feel like getting steamed?
2019-06-19T00:47:15 < Steffanx> I my world Finland is hot too, because it was +30C when I was there
2019-06-19T00:47:30 < Steffanx> Lappeenranta. Hot and humid.
2019-06-19T00:47:46 < Steffanx> And Russians. Many russians.
2019-06-19T00:48:31 < kakimir> it's a russian city inside finnish borders
2019-06-19T00:48:45 < kakimir> I think like 30% of population are russians
2019-06-19T00:50:04 < upgrdman> so when are the ruskies going to liberate it like crimea?
2019-06-19T00:51:06 < Cracki> inb4 soviet russia liberates members of the EU
2019-06-19T00:52:24 < kakimir> when they reach critical mass upgrdman 
2019-06-19T00:52:40 < upgrdman> k
2019-06-19T00:54:32 < Steffanx> kakimir: will be a happy lada driver
2019-06-19T00:55:32 < kakimir> simple machines
2019-06-19T00:55:48 < kakimir> revolutional 4stroke engine!
2019-06-19T00:56:19 < kakimir> none of that 2stroke engine car rubbish
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2019-06-19T01:00:21 < Steffanx> :)
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2019-06-19T01:13:47 < karlp> isn't lapeenranta just a shitty beer?
2019-06-19T01:14:04 < karlp> man, missing him again
2019-06-19T01:14:07 < karlp> upgrdman should come to iceland.
2019-06-19T01:14:11 < karlp> midsummer, 21C :)
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2019-06-19T01:34:23 < kakimir> karlp: lapinkulta
2019-06-19T01:34:36 < karlp> ranting cults, whatever :)
2019-06-19T01:34:47 < kakimir> "laplands gold"
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2019-06-19T02:15:00 < kakimir> I don't think it's bad
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2019-06-19T05:52:48 < englishman> fucking samtec
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2019-06-19T06:28:37 < englishman> anyone used platformIO
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2019-06-19T09:30:12 < dongs> ive heard about it
2019-06-19T09:30:22 < dongs> some cloudy bullshit faggot IoT of DiCks thing
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2019-06-19T12:39:00 < karlp> it's got good bits,
2019-06-19T12:39:17 < karlp> it's got some bits where they're trying to hide more and more of whats' underneath and add some of it back in as pay features
2019-06-19T12:39:40 < karlp> I found it a nice way of generating a template project for esp1488
2019-06-19T12:40:03 < karlp> dude built a fucking mountain of infrastructure underneath it all.
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2019-06-19T13:58:00 < Lux> englishman: it definetly has it's pitfalls
2019-06-19T13:58:34 < Lux> ok for prototyping, but i woultn't use it for anything you'd want to change in a few years
2019-06-19T13:59:18 < Lux> did a project with a co2 sensor lib in platformio and the next time i wanted to edit, the fucking library was deleted from platformio
2019-06-19T13:59:46 < Lux> even was gone in my local proj, had to search github for it and manually copy the c-files for it to work
2019-06-19T14:08:10 < englishman> nice
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2019-06-19T15:23:12 < karlp> https://github.com/JinShil/stm32f42_discovery_demo and D is now included in gcc9.
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2019-06-19T15:29:52 < sk_tandt> Greetings! I'm trying to use the flash memory on a STM32F4 Discovery board: all is fine in writing and reading *the first time*, but subsequent writes don't seem to go across
2019-06-19T15:29:58 < sk_tandt> What am I doing wrong?
2019-06-19T15:32:06 < karlp> subsequent writes how?
2019-06-19T15:34:38 < sk_tandt> On an interrupt callback, unlock() -> HAL_FLASH_Program(FLASH_TYPEPROGRAM_HALFWORD, (HR_MEM_START + 0xF * i), data); -> lock()
2019-06-19T15:34:50 < sk_tandt> The first time the callback is invoked, works like a charm
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2019-06-19T15:35:21 < sk_tandt> The second, I get 16 ( 1 << 4 ) every time, regardless of what value I input
2019-06-19T15:42:52 < karlp> does that hal function take care of erasing?
2019-06-19T15:43:19 < karlp> and are you sure you want to be doing flash writes in interrupt context? are you comfortable with the timing?
2019-06-19T15:44:16 < karlp> I dont know what you mean by "I get 16 (1 << 4)" either get what?
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2019-06-19T15:45:37 < sk_tandt>  karlp, first of all, thanks for taking the time : ) And, nope, it didn't take care of erasing: should I erase flash before I write it everytime?
2019-06-19T15:46:13 < sk_tandt> As for the timing, what issues could I find?
2019-06-19T15:48:31 < rajkosto> dongs, this is an altium 19 "feature" isnt it ? i noticed it too but never did before
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2019-06-19T17:54:02 < bitmask> hi
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2019-06-19T18:02:58 < bitmask> I hate our wifi...
2019-06-19T18:03:28 < Steffanx> Ok
2019-06-19T18:12:01 < jadew`> get better wifi?
2019-06-19T18:12:24 < jadew`> man... JLC + DHL = unreliable delivery times
2019-06-19T18:12:49 < jadew`> JLC said they'd make my boards in 24 hours, it took them one week to ship them
2019-06-19T18:13:07 < jadew`> then DHL said they'd deliver them yesterday
2019-06-19T18:13:15 < jadew`> and they still haven't passed them through customs
2019-06-19T18:13:57 < jadew`> and I promised some folks that I'd have this thing ready at the end of last week :/
2019-06-19T18:15:00 < jadew`> actually, it would have been ready by then (that was my worst case scenario), but I gave elecrow another chance and their boards still suck
2019-06-19T18:17:24 < jadew`> all this waiting makes me want to yell at someone
2019-06-19T18:17:41 < jadew`> DHL. I'd yell at DHL
2019-06-19T18:17:52 < jadew`> "WTF IS IT TAKING SO LONG?"
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2019-06-19T18:19:52 < jadew`> did you guys know there's a skirt called micro mini skirt?
2019-06-19T18:19:59 < bitmask> weird, I only used jlc once but it was so fast.  the boards were shipped 20 hours after I submitted them
2019-06-19T18:20:23 < jadew`> bitmask, probably before they became so successful
2019-06-19T18:20:49 < bitmask> wasn't that long ago but I'm sure they have been getting more and more popular
2019-06-19T18:21:24 < bitmask> it was probably around january
2019-06-19T18:21:32 < bitmask> ehh maybe a bit later 
2019-06-19T18:22:17 < jadew`> I'm not particularly happy with their boards either
2019-06-19T18:22:55 < jadew`> had to rework some traces on one and they're very glassy
2019-06-19T18:24:16 < karlp> jadew`: is there any pcb house you _like_ ?
2019-06-19T18:24:36 < jadew`> I used to like one
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2019-06-19T20:15:05 < bitmask> anyone use a clay bar on their car before?
2019-06-19T20:19:08 < upgrdman> i have
2019-06-19T20:19:13 < upgrdman> worked very well
2019-06-19T20:19:29 < upgrdman> but that was years ago. now my paint is shit and i DGAF
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2019-06-19T20:33:59 < bitmask> my car is a disaster, I'm gonna attempt to revive it
2019-06-19T20:34:22 < bitmask> i'll start with a good washing and then use the clay bar, then see if I need to get some sap/tar remover
2019-06-19T20:34:25 < bitmask> and then go from there
2019-06-19T20:35:43 < bitmask> whats that
2019-06-19T20:36:01 < bitmask> oh storm*?
2019-06-19T20:36:05 < bitmask> no
2019-06-19T20:36:11 < bitmask> my car was just sitting for a year uncovered
2019-06-19T20:36:21 < bitmask> dirt caked on and Ive only cleaned it once since
2019-06-19T20:36:33 < bitmask> the cleaning didn't get a lot off, its just really baked on there
2019-06-19T20:36:48 < bitmask> a year, 1
2019-06-19T20:36:55 < bitmask> no
2019-06-19T20:37:08 < bitmask> my gf did the driving for a year when I didnt have insurance :P
2019-06-19T20:37:14 < bitmask> we shared a car
2019-06-19T20:37:33 < bitmask> I was finishing up school
2019-06-19T20:37:36 < bitmask> and wasn't working
2019-06-19T20:39:07 < bitmask> ahh
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2019-06-19T21:05:11 < Steffanx> Saddenly is that a sad suddenly?
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2019-06-19T21:47:22 < zyp> I thought about using a clay bar on my car last year, but I were too lazy to so now it's just even dirtier
2019-06-19T21:48:19 < zyp> jadew`, dongspcbs is nice
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2019-06-19T22:25:07 < Thorn> TIL: there is a 16-bit version of ads1220 called ads1120
2019-06-19T22:25:16 < Thorn> it's not even much cheaper
2019-06-19T22:25:20 < Thorn> what is the point
2019-06-19T22:28:29 < jpa-> $4.50 vs. $3.60 seems like enough price difference
2019-06-19T22:31:28 < zyp> the prices you look at might not be the prices the customers who actually cares are looking at either
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2019-06-19T23:03:28 < kakimir> early kaks
2019-06-19T23:13:48 < Getty> "OSRAM-SUMSANG-CREE-EPISTAR" chinese spam is just the best
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2019-06-19T23:34:19 < Steffanx> hello kakimir
2019-06-19T23:34:21 < Steffanx> hows the day
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2019-06-19T23:35:33 < bitmask> just scrubbed my car for an hour, now its only as dirty as a regular car that needs a carwash, exciting
2019-06-19T23:48:47 < Steffanx> we need pics, not words ;)
2019-06-19T23:51:52 < upgrdman> heh, latest version of Eclipse actually starts up faster. 9 seconds instead of 14 seconds.
2019-06-19T23:53:25 < Steffanx> 2019-6?
2019-06-19T23:53:30 < upgrdman> ya
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2019-06-19T23:53:35 < upgrdman> with openj9
2019-06-19T23:53:59 < upgrdman> and im using openj9-java8. wonder if it'd be faster with -java11 or 12
2019-06-19T23:54:12 < upgrdman> but TelemetryViewer is broken on java >8 :(
2019-06-19T23:54:25 < Steffanx> awh
2019-06-19T23:54:26 < upgrdman> god damn opengl lib dev's not maintaining
2019-06-19T23:54:54 < upgrdman> dpi scaling get broken, because java >8 now correctly does dpi scaling
2019-06-19T23:55:03 < upgrdman> and the opengl lib can't handle it :(
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2019-06-19T23:59:00 < Steffanx> better wake up karlp, otherwise you'll miss him (again) ^ ;)
--- Day changed Thu Jun 20 2019
2019-06-20T00:00:04 < Steffanx> that sentence needs a better , placement
2019-06-20T00:00:04 < upgrdman> him == me ?
2019-06-20T00:00:19 < Steffanx> yeah
2019-06-20T00:00:33 < upgrdman> is he trying to contact me?
2019-06-20T00:00:43 < Steffanx> idk. he said he missed you, again.
2019-06-20T00:00:48 < Steffanx> yesterday
2019-06-20T00:00:49 < upgrdman> oh ok
2019-06-20T00:01:22 < upgrdman> well i'll be china'd after a week. maybe our timezone will align better then
2019-06-20T00:03:14 < kakimir> upgrdman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S1fISh-pag
2019-06-20T00:04:44 < catphish_> this thing is amazing: https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/guitar/g5-guitar-effects-amp-simulator-pedal
2019-06-20T00:06:12 < kakimir> java kindof works with opengl
2019-06-20T00:06:24 < upgrdman> kakimir, heh. i've been thinking about porting it to cpp/qt, but too lazy right now
2019-06-20T00:06:38 < kakimir> I think it's the best option outside of C-family
2019-06-20T00:06:48 < upgrdman> also, might as well add more features that i need before porting
2019-06-20T00:07:37 < upgrdman> i think i'll port to shaders first, since that'll be a big task, and i can learn about compute shaders while im at it.
2019-06-20T00:10:02 < kakimir> port shaders?
2019-06-20T00:10:33 < kakimir> ain't those glsl already?
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2019-06-20T00:11:17 < kakimir> I would not bother with porting to C unless java becomes somehow unusable
2019-06-20T00:11:35 < kakimir> and Qt.. ask lurencer if Qt is fun
2019-06-20T00:12:16 < upgrdman> kakimir, port from the opengl fixed-function poopline to the opengl shader poopline
2019-06-20T00:12:37 < kakimir> performance gain?
2019-06-20T00:13:06 < upgrdman> my main annoyance right now is really just startup time when using opengl in java. seems like 5+ seconds. even on a high-end pc. hoping it's just the library im using, but not sure
2019-06-20T00:13:17 < upgrdman> kakimir, yes. shaders should reduce cpu and gpu load
2019-06-20T00:13:45 < kakimir> you dump the data to shaders to process further right?
2019-06-20T00:13:47 < upgrdman> and theres lots of other optimizations i should do along the way. i need to sit down and review most of the code. been doing it, but so much more to do
2019-06-20T00:14:26 < Steffanx> You can also get kakimir  to do it
2019-06-20T00:14:43 < upgrdman> kakimir, ya for compute shaders. but for normal shaders (vertex + fragment) it's just more efficient by some %. supposedly less work for the graphics driver to do.
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2019-06-20T00:18:08 < superbia> evening pro lads
2019-06-20T00:18:32 < Steffanx> welcome mr superbia
2019-06-20T00:19:14 < Steffanx> what brings you here at this unusual late hour?
2019-06-20T00:19:18 < superbia> Steffanx: was watching some shit, not this, but relevant http://catalog.mit.edu/interdisciplinary/undergraduate-programs/minors/womens-gender-studies/
2019-06-20T00:19:48 < superbia> check the subjects lad
2019-06-20T00:19:52 < Steffanx> try ##stm32-offtopic for stuff that like superbia
2019-06-20T00:19:58 < Steffanx> *like that
2019-06-20T00:20:10 < superbia> but i am not being logged, or am i
2019-06-20T00:20:56 < Steffanx> here you are
2019-06-20T00:21:00 < Steffanx> there, probably not
2019-06-20T00:21:13 < superbia> i am not here
2019-06-20T00:21:20 < superbia> atleast i wasnt
2019-06-20T00:22:02 < superbia> offtopic is for fagots
2019-06-20T00:22:12 < superbia> i wanted to show you the new project
2019-06-20T00:23:13 < Steffanx> but...
2019-06-20T00:24:01 < superbia> i don't think you would quite understand how it works
2019-06-20T00:24:49 < Steffanx> Give it a try?
2019-06-20T00:25:48 < superbia> i just realized i have to blur stuffs in the demo to show it to a bunch of normies
2019-06-20T00:26:10 < Cracki> phalluses?
2019-06-20T00:26:45 < Cracki> >catalog.mit.edu
2019-06-20T00:26:50 < Cracki> >gender studies
2019-06-20T00:27:09 < Cracki> study at caltech, they might be autists but they're meritocratic
2019-06-20T00:29:36 < superbia> a phuck, too late to change the demo.. bedtime for this pro
2019-06-20T00:29:38 < kakimir> isn't gender studies non-science?
2019-06-20T00:29:57 < superbia> night Steffanx pro buddy
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2019-06-20T00:30:08 < ds2> gender studies? isn't that called a trip to the bar or club?
2019-06-20T00:30:16 < kakimir> hmm
2019-06-20T00:32:56 < superbia> but lads check the subjects on the gender studies....
2019-06-20T00:34:30  * superbia pro goes to bed
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2019-06-20T00:37:26 < Cracki> the purpose of "minor" subjects is so you get to relate your major subject to something "applied" or nontechnical at least
2019-06-20T00:38:10 < Cracki> MIT must have gotten shaken down by the trigglypuff brigade
2019-06-20T00:38:30 < karlp> upgrdman: you were just talking about wanting to holiday where it was cold,
2019-06-20T00:38:36 < karlp> I was going to say come visit iceland :)
2019-06-20T00:38:44 < upgrdman> ah ya
2019-06-20T00:38:56 < karlp> even in summer it's never going to be much more than 20
2019-06-20T00:39:06 < karlp> endless nights, not too hot, not too cold, just right.
2019-06-20T00:39:07 < upgrdman> nice
2019-06-20T00:39:12 < upgrdman> are you an iceland-ian?
2019-06-20T00:39:30  * karlp is
2019-06-20T00:39:34 < upgrdman> cool
2019-06-20T00:49:14 < ds2> karlp: is iceland an expensive place?
2019-06-20T00:49:15 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-06-20T00:49:46 < karlp> sure.
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2019-06-20T00:55:54 < Thorn> who needs OOK when you have FSK? is it for compatibility with some old transceivers?
2019-06-20T00:58:56 < ds2> karlp: even in the winter?
2019-06-20T00:59:19 < ds2> looking candidates for aurora viewing
2019-06-20T00:59:44 < karlp> what prices are you expecting to change?
2019-06-20T01:00:23 < karlp> given that aurora tourism is a thing, were you expecting people to be just "urhhh, not sunny, must charge less, even though tourists come for dark" ? :)
2019-06-20T01:00:37 < ds2> donno what is driving the prices... 
2019-06-20T01:01:12 < ds2> cost of supplies to that location vs seasonal influx/popularity
2019-06-20T01:02:16 < karlp> you might get some things cheaper, but I wouldn't be expecting anything meaningful.
2019-06-20T01:18:59 < englishman> aha, superbia has been in swissland too long, he has the holier-than-thou disease
2019-06-20T01:19:34 < englishman> Thorn: far less complex, literally 120 year old tech
2019-06-20T01:20:11 < Thorn> but if the same chip supports fsk with gfsk, whitening etc.
2019-06-20T01:20:18 < Thorn> why would I ever select ook
2019-06-20T01:20:42 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
2019-06-20T01:26:32 < englishman> definitely compatibility, possibly to legacy receivers
2019-06-20T01:27:02 < englishman> one chip that has FSK but does ook for free sells more than separate ook chip, no?
2019-06-20T01:27:02 < Thorn> ok
2019-06-20T01:27:35 < Thorn> very likely
2019-06-20T01:27:47 < Thorn> i wonder why nobody seems to have sub-1GHz transceivers with psk / qam
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2019-06-20T01:34:30 < englishman> except axsem
2019-06-20T01:35:53 < karlp> what did I just get spam on that from, ON? 
2019-06-20T01:36:43 < englishman> ##stm32
2019-06-20T01:37:01 < englishman> on bought them yeah.
2019-06-20T01:37:06 < karlp> no, I mena, some subgighz radio thing, from someone I wasn't expecting
2019-06-20T01:37:14 < karlp> oh, on bought axsem?
2019-06-20T01:37:31 < englishman> yeah before qyx and myself tried them
2019-06-20T01:38:05 < englishman> this was the chip with seekit registers behind a unlock register that needed PASSWORD sent to it or something like that
2019-06-20T01:48:07 < Thorn> cdsenet has AX5243 modules but for whatever reason they all have a UART interface (the chip itself is SPI)
2019-06-20T01:48:45 < Thorn> which means they put a microcontroller there and invent a command system. why would they do that
2019-06-20T01:49:05 < Thorn> is driving the chip directly so difficult
2019-06-20T01:50:27 < karlp> yeah, this one, digikey emailed me abotu it yesterday: https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/o/on-semi/axm0f243-ultra-low-power-wireless-microcontroller
2019-06-20T01:50:47 < karlp> ax5043+cm0+ mcu
2019-06-20T01:52:16 < karlp> does 5243 just have more modulations supported? having a hard time seeing what the difference is
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2019-06-20T03:10:00 < emeb_mac> Working on a new project based on H743 - interesting new capabilities in that series
2019-06-20T03:10:19 < emeb_mac> New DMAMUX - no need for channels and conflicts
2019-06-20T03:11:17 < emeb_mac> SPI now is "packet based" and needs a byte count value prior to transmission. Upside: it can manage the NSS as an output - no SW CS toggling needed.
2019-06-20T03:24:54 < karlp> you could actuqally do that in the past, even on spi v1, it was just weird and documented badly, 
2019-06-20T03:24:59 < karlp> packet based is interesting though
2019-06-20T03:28:46 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/libopencm3-tests/blob/wip/spi-slave2/tests/freertos-spi-slave/host/host-usb-spi.c#L309 and the case above it here are re-initing with sw and hw slave select, and being verified with LA 
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2019-06-20T05:38:49 < dongs> oh
2019-06-20T05:38:58 < dongs> semtech LoRA trash came from 'Cycleo"
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2019-06-20T06:01:52 < dongs> what are those chink common 3 pin smt trimpots
2019-06-20T06:03:06 < dongs> EVM3ESX50B there it is.
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2019-06-20T06:45:50 < emeb_mac> karlp: yeah - the old NSS HW output control would assert / deassert NSS when the SPI periph was enabled/disabled. The new one asserts when the actual transmission begins and deasserts when the packet length is elapsed. It's *slightly* more automatic, but AFAICT you still need to do some extra register poking to setup and teardown the transmission.
2019-06-20T06:49:23 < dongs> i love the completely fucking RANDOM ctrl-tab operation in altifuck. if im editing component properties in teh retardo sidebar which used to be a dialog, ctrl+_tab should switch to the next tab IN THAT DIALOG not fucking switch to next scheamtic ssheet in the retarded tabbed interface.
2019-06-20T06:49:28 < dongs> FUCK
2019-06-20T06:49:32 < dongs> but hey sometimes it switches to component tab
2019-06-20T06:49:37 < dongs> so there was an attempt at lest.
2019-06-20T06:50:54 < emeb_mac> sounds fail-tastic
2019-06-20T06:51:13 < dongs> yeah, kikecad is looking better and bettery every day
2019-06-20T06:51:21 < emeb_mac> heh
2019-06-20T06:51:36 < emeb_mac> every PCB CAD tool is terrible. Just in different ways.
2019-06-20T06:51:55 < emeb_mac> at least w/ KiCAD you're not paying for terrible.
2019-06-20T06:52:59 < dongs> yeha i mean c onsidering how terrible kiekcad is, i'm glad i'm not paying
2019-06-20T06:53:13 < dongs> if they charged money for that shit they'd be out of business in a week
2019-06-20T06:58:32 < Cracki> altium headquarters: 4225 Executive Square, Level 7, La Jolla, CA 92037, USA
2019-06-20T06:58:35 < Cracki> send them a brick maybe
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2019-06-20T07:35:42 < jadew`> zyp, didn't know dongs offers that service
2019-06-20T07:36:08 < jadew`> dongs, is that true?
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2019-06-20T09:04:03 < dongs> jadew`: you cant afford my pcbs
2019-06-20T09:04:07 < dongs> they're like 10x the price of china
2019-06-20T09:04:11 < dongs> i mean, so is the quality but
2019-06-20T09:04:20 < dongs> for random nigger projects it doenst matter
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2019-06-20T09:42:33 < dongs> haha fucking TI
2019-06-20T09:42:42 < dongs> was going to look at the libs needed to bring up a CC1310
2019-06-20T09:42:52 < dongs> http://dev.ti.com/tirex/content/simplelink_cc13x0_sdk_1_30_00_06/docs/driverlib_cc13xx_cc26xx/cc13x0/driverlib/index.html this looks good
2019-06-20T09:43:02 < dongs> trying to actually FIND the shit for download? nope.
2019-06-20T09:43:28 < dongs> http://www.ti.com/tool/cc13xx-sw apparently was here
2019-06-20T09:43:31 < dongs> now just redirects to .
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2019-06-20T10:57:49 < jly> https://youtu.be/DLG1jbPrp2Q
2019-06-20T11:16:27 < dongs> that dude looks liek a fucking douche
2019-06-20T11:20:54 < kakimir> cat pee video
2019-06-20T11:20:57 < kakimir> it was funny
2019-06-20T11:21:02 < kakimir> and innovative
2019-06-20T11:22:03 < zyp> dongs, speaking of pcbs, I wanna make more of those nfc boards soon
2019-06-20T11:22:23 < dongs> sure just msg/email me details. im a bit busy until 5th so email would be better comms
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2019-06-20T12:20:29 < dongs> TI ships their shit as fucking .exe files
2019-06-20T12:20:33 < dongs> that installs filth everywhere
2019-06-20T12:20:37 < dongs> what teh fuck
2019-06-20T12:20:39 < dongs> for source code 
2019-06-20T12:20:47 < zyp> yeah, it's awful
2019-06-20T12:21:00 < zyp> I'm using F021 flash api, comes as a fucking .exe installer
2019-06-20T12:21:32 < dongs> controlSUITE 
2019-06-20T12:21:33 < dongs> more like
2019-06-20T12:21:35 < dongs> trash
2019-06-20T12:22:44 < dongs> i wonder if i should just not bother...
2019-06-20T12:22:53 < dongs> this CC1310 stuff looks filthy as hell
2019-06-20T12:23:06 < dongs> does keil even supprot it
2019-06-20T12:23:31 < dongs> http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Using_Keil_MDK-ARM_with_CC13xx/CC26xx
2019-06-20T12:23:32 < dongs> nice
2019-06-20T12:26:17 < dongs> OK looks not too aids
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2019-06-20T13:05:36 < dongs> what the shit
2019-06-20T13:05:47 < dongs> TI renamed CMSIS standard vector names?
2019-06-20T13:08:13 < kakimir> who would have though
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2019-06-20T13:34:01 < Steffanx> You're early today kakimir  
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2019-06-20T13:46:38 < dongs> FaultISR NmiSR
2019-06-20T13:46:40 < dongs> comeo n
2019-06-20T13:46:42 < dongs> fucking cunts
2019-06-20T13:46:48 < dongs> they cant een make up their mind on capitalization
2019-06-20T13:52:54 < dongs> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/florida-riviera-beach-hacking-ransom.html butts
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2019-06-20T14:14:00 < jadew`> that's not going to backfire at all
2019-06-20T14:20:12 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/WF7OEL32.html
2019-06-20T14:20:13 < dongs> thanks, TI
2019-06-20T14:20:22 < dongs> the more i look at this shit the less i wanna touch this chip
2019-06-20T14:20:27 < dongs> eeven for fun
2019-06-20T14:20:40 < jadew`> called DHL to ask them why the hell there's nothing happening
2019-06-20T14:20:56 < jadew`> they basically said "too many packets"
2019-06-20T14:21:18 < jadew`> and that even if I got my customs invoice today and I paid it right away, I still wouldn't get my shit this week
2019-06-20T14:21:25 < jadew`> it was supposed to be here 2 days ago
2019-06-20T14:21:56 < jadew`> and I sent all the papers for the customs proceedings last week
2019-06-20T14:23:23 < jadew`> dongs, that actually makes sense
2019-06-20T14:23:57 < jadew`> I'm kidding, it's shit
2019-06-20T14:23:58 < dongs> what makes sesesne
2019-06-20T14:24:07 < dongs> attaching arbitrary faggot names instead of using shit from stdint.h?
2019-06-20T14:24:14 < dongs> yeah it makes a lot of sense if youre a FUCKING FAGGOT
2019-06-20T14:24:26 < jadew`> yeah, it's just stupid
2019-06-20T14:25:23 < jadew`> you know what my worst fear is regarding that DHL delivery?
2019-06-20T14:25:27 < karlp> xdc_wat
2019-06-20T14:25:37 < jadew`> that the boards are fucked in some way
2019-06-20T14:25:56 < dongs> which means y ou have to DHL it again?
2019-06-20T14:26:01 < jadew`> yeah
2019-06-20T14:26:45 < jadew`> it wouldn't be that big of an issue if they came in the advertised 24 hours + 6-7 days shipping time
2019-06-20T14:27:01 < dongs> https://e2e.ti.com/support/legacy_forums/embedded/tirtos/f/355/t/394184
2019-06-20T14:27:02 < dongs> haha
2019-06-20T14:27:05 < dongs> how the fuck
2019-06-20T14:27:09 < dongs> would your "IDE" matter for this at all
2019-06-20T14:27:18 < dongs> its fucking C code
2019-06-20T14:27:32 < jadew`> maybe it's using some non-standard thing
2019-06-20T14:27:35 < dongs> yeah i think im just gonna not get involved in this
2019-06-20T14:27:42 < dongs> and let these idiots run crap composter studio by themselves
2019-06-20T14:27:47 < dongs> i saw them trying to build a project
2019-06-20T14:27:49 < dongs> it takes like 30 seconds
2019-06-20T14:27:51 < dongs> from click build
2019-06-20T14:27:53 < dongs> to release
2019-06-20T14:27:56 < dongs> and there's only like 2 .c files
2019-06-20T14:28:02 < dongs> it opens like 20 black console windows
2019-06-20T14:28:04 < dongs> wiht crap scrolling by
2019-06-20T14:28:09 < dongs> gcc/makefiles/wahtever the fuck
2019-06-20T14:28:16 < dongs> and its all integrated into some bastardized copy of eclipse
2019-06-20T14:28:34 < karlp> code complicator supersized
2019-06-20T14:29:12 < dongs> worse, i cant even find any baremetal examples of this stuff
2019-06-20T14:29:19 < dongs> its all aids
2019-06-20T14:32:03 < jadew`> I don't think I found many bare metal examples for stm32 either when I first started
2019-06-20T14:32:18 < jadew`> it was all stdperiph thing, which I never used
2019-06-20T14:32:44 < jadew`> if their datasheets are good enough, it shouldn't matter much
2019-06-20T14:34:58 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/Ou50rD41.html
2019-06-20T14:35:05 < dongs> literally. everything. is like this.
2019-06-20T14:35:21 < dongs> all these dumb wraps for fucking autogenerated docs which are ABSOLUTELY USELESS>
2019-06-20T14:36:45 < dongs> the wonder of fucking the code with #defines like this?
2019-06-20T14:36:47 < dongs> it breaks all intellisense
2019-06-20T14:36:52 < dongs> so you have no idea what the args are or anything
2019-06-20T14:36:55 < dongs> fuckin great
2019-06-20T14:37:04 < dongs> k closing keil, enough of this lol
2019-06-20T14:38:44 < Thorn> this "SimpleLink" architecture is absolute aids. completely locked down
2019-06-20T14:39:36 < dongs> ya?
2019-06-20T14:39:49 < dongs> i donno why these peopel are using this shit
2019-06-20T14:39:54 < dongs> is it really that low pwoere?
2019-06-20T14:45:08 < karlp> same reason people by digi gear I guess. drag and drop and get it working, only building 500, project based, high margins?
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2019-06-20T15:55:52 < aandrew> code composer is fucking garbage just like every other ide
2019-06-20T15:56:17 < Steffanx> Or every not-ide. Everything is garbage.
2019-06-20T16:05:19 < Thorn> my makefile is not garbage
2019-06-20T16:06:36 < Thorn> lcsc packaged my order into a pizza box
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2019-06-20T16:22:06 < Thorn> Kindly Reminder: Please ignore the original label as it's a reused and recycled packaging.
2019-06-20T16:22:17 < Steffanx> Lol
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2019-06-20T18:22:16 < englishman> picked up a Keysight msox6004a with jitter analysis
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2019-06-20T18:41:45 < Thorn> moneyed westerners
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2019-06-20T19:27:44 < aandrew> englishman: nice
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2019-06-20T19:28:00 < aandrew> englishman: what'd you end up paying for that scope?
2019-06-20T19:28:16 < aandrew> it's got a list of CAD$30k 
2019-06-20T19:30:12 < englishman> plus probes and software
2019-06-20T19:30:56 < englishman> and that's the 2ch base model
2019-06-20T19:36:02 < upgrdman> englishman, what scope did you get?
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2019-06-20T20:06:45 < bitmask> englishman:	picked up a Keysight msox6004a with jitter analysis
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2019-06-20T20:40:53 < jadew`> englishman, neat
2019-06-20T20:57:26 < jadew`> englishman, does it do phase noise plots?
2019-06-20T21:18:55 < Thorn> lcsc now has multiple warehouses with different lead times
2019-06-20T21:19:40 < jadew`> if lcsc will start stocking more of the stuff that I need, I may become a customer too
2019-06-20T21:19:57 < jadew`> might actually be a solution for the problem I'm having
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2019-06-20T21:44:12 < Thorn> btw I managed to grab mic5504 (all 17 pcs in stock) on lcsc. they never had it in stock before. maybe someone special-ordered it through them
2019-06-20T21:45:35 < Thorn> the stock also changed from 11 to17 as I was placing my order
2019-06-20T21:46:01 < Thorn> no idea what's going on there
2019-06-20T21:47:19 < jadew`> either their site reserves them when you put them in your cart, and it suddenly became free
2019-06-20T21:47:32 < jadew`> or another example of chinese sale tactics
2019-06-20T21:47:50 < jadew`> they list a small number, to make you think they're running out of them
2019-06-20T21:48:31 < jadew`> falls in line with how they removed the total price on aliexpress
2019-06-20T21:49:07 < jadew`> must be the only website on the internet where you don't know how much a product costs you until after you place the order
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2019-06-20T23:42:57 < Thorn> are 2 antennas with the same vswr and dbi (at the same frwwquency) exactly equivalent?
2019-06-20T23:43:49 < qyx> no, they may have different radiation patterns for example
2019-06-20T23:44:24 < qyx> and impedance and stuff
2019-06-20T23:44:41 < qyx> but I am not an antennamaster
2019-06-20T23:45:53 < BrainDamage> you're still correct
2019-06-20T23:45:58 < BrainDamage> EIRP measures the intensity in the peak direction only
2019-06-20T23:46:17 < BrainDamage> you can create many shapes with the same EIRP
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--- Day changed Fri Jun 21 2019
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2019-06-21T00:21:05 < ds2> what's the mic5504?
2019-06-21T00:22:05 < lmln> anybody familiar with stm32f769i discovery board? is it possible to use on board stlink to program another stm32? e.g. bluepill?
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2019-06-21T00:27:57 < qyx> lmln: usually yes (on disco and nucleo boards I have), check the manual
2019-06-21T00:34:21 < lmln> on nucleo there is exposed cn4 connector, no such thing on f769i-disco
2019-06-21T00:39:18 < Cracki> got the manual at hand?
2019-06-21T00:41:38 < lmln> yes
2019-06-21T00:42:49 < Cracki> from a quick search i don't see it mentioning any jumpers or connectors to let you use it standalone/externally
2019-06-21T00:43:49 < lmln> https://www.st.com/resource/en/user_manual/dm00276557.pdf
2019-06-21T00:44:29 < Cracki> the block diagram suggests some switch or jumper bridge between stlink and f7, for both swd and vcp uart....
2019-06-21T00:44:32 < Cracki> so it might be possible
2019-06-21T00:45:06 < Cracki> SB17/18 for vcp rx/tx...
2019-06-21T00:46:04 < Cracki> don't see the other stuff yet
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2019-06-21T00:46:32 < Cracki> ah there it is, sb19-22
2019-06-21T00:46:39 < Cracki> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/user_manual/group0/7c/c9/c0/5f/4e/9b/44/eb/DM00276557/files/DM00276557.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00276557.pdf
2019-06-21T00:46:53 < Cracki> I think you can cut and resolder them
2019-06-21T00:48:22 < Cracki> those aren't mentioned in any paragraphs...
2019-06-21T00:49:11 < kakimir> hello night line
2019-06-21T00:49:32 < Cracki> CN4 has swclk and others...
2019-06-21T00:49:43 < lmln> yes
2019-06-21T00:49:43 < qyx> hi kaks
2019-06-21T00:50:34 < Cracki> and it looks like it's connected to the stlink chip, so that's the header you'd use to go off-board
2019-06-21T00:50:35 < kakimir> basic short 12hour day
2019-06-21T00:50:56 < kakimir> sauna is bliss
2019-06-21T00:52:44 < Cracki> I don't see any header to easily connect that back to the F7, so you might have to actually use those solder bridges
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2019-06-21T00:58:00 < lmln> thanks
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2019-06-21T01:03:55 < Cracki> don't rely on me, see what headers this thing has
2019-06-21T01:06:31 < Cracki> docs seem to get worse tho. they used to mention breakoutability of the stlink part
2019-06-21T01:11:51 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm_YE-VoTaE
2019-06-21T01:12:07 < kakimir> just ducklings
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2019-06-21T02:39:00 < rajkosto> hey anyone know how the tachometer wire is driven by a computer fan ?
2019-06-21T02:39:22 < rajkosto> i would have expected open drain so that the receiving device can pull it up to whatever vccio it would like
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2019-06-21T02:42:11 < rajkosto> but doesnt seem to be the case in fact its only actively driven high ? to 5v
2019-06-21T02:49:03 < Cracki> this dude says you have to expect that weirdness https://www.petervis.com/electronics%20guides/cpu%20fan%20tacho/cpu%20fan%20tacho.html
2019-06-21T02:50:28 < Cracki> they might bring their own pullup
2019-06-21T02:51:13 < rajkosto> the fan hub has this in it http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/93759.pdf
2019-06-21T02:51:41 < rajkosto> doesnt really say what the output waveform is like there
2019-06-21T02:53:22 < Cracki> I don't see a pinout
2019-06-21T02:53:35 < rajkosto> the pinout uis just +, GND, "output"
2019-06-21T02:53:39 < rajkosto> its ont he package diagrams very small text
2019-06-21T02:53:50 < Cracki> aha https://sensing.honeywell.com/honeywell-sensing-ss30at-ss40a-ss50at-product-sheet-005906-1-en.pdf
2019-06-21T03:04:53 < Laurenceb> arggg muh wambulance usb
2019-06-21T03:05:37 < Laurenceb> >USB port disabled by hub (EMI?), re-enabling
2019-06-21T03:20:17 < kakimir> babby shakker now usb compatible?
2019-06-21T03:20:56 < kakimir> you know bluetooth 5.0 is a thing now
2019-06-21T03:21:31 < kakimir> Laurenceb: is it a raspi?
2019-06-21T03:23:13 < kakimir> I remember somebody had such a problem and thought it was just glitch but low and behold it was actually EMI
2019-06-21T03:23:48 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Gz7Bg07u8 movie recommd
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2019-06-21T03:46:50 < Thorn> are there standard smd packages for 32768 xtals? 
2019-06-21T03:47:03 < Thorn> 3215 seems to be popular
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2019-06-21T04:03:06 < rajkosto> i use 2 pad ones for 32.768
2019-06-21T04:03:22 < rajkosto> the "standard" package for 32.768 is the barrel type with legs ;)
2019-06-21T04:05:40 < rajkosto> 3215 is the 2-pad SMD i use for 32.768 and 3225 is the 4-pad SMD i use for multi-MHZ ones
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2019-06-21T04:12:50 < Laurenceb> kakimir: its on a laptop running lunix
2019-06-21T04:14:03 < Laurenceb> I can probably haxor it using usbreset
2019-06-21T04:19:10 < Laurenceb> I suspect its due to the usb isolator I'm using
2019-06-21T04:19:25 < Laurenceb> some sort of power issue
2019-06-21T04:19:32 < dongs> rajkosto: what feature? the automatic parts search trash?
2019-06-21T04:19:49 < rajkosto> no, pcblib before schlib
2019-06-21T04:19:52 < rajkosto> in place components
2019-06-21T04:19:57 < dongs> oh
2019-06-21T04:20:00 < dongs> yeah i have no fucking idea
2019-06-21T04:20:03 < dongs> do you also see it?
2019-06-21T04:20:12 < Laurenceb> I should have used rs485 tbh
2019-06-21T04:20:14 < dongs> why is there a pcblib there at all
2019-06-21T04:20:17 < rajkosto> yeah it started happening with 19
2019-06-21T04:20:29 < dongs> i'm on 18.0.newest
2019-06-21T04:20:30 < rajkosto> each lib appears twice, first one is the pcblib always
2019-06-21T04:20:39 < dongs> err 19.0.newest
2019-06-21T04:20:41 < dongs> not .1 yet
2019-06-21T04:20:47 < rajkosto> im on 19..1.5
2019-06-21T04:20:48 < rajkosto> still happening
2019-06-21T04:21:04 < dongs> gay
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2019-06-21T04:51:10 < rajkosto> Laurenceb__, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/292727720876703744/591444627366871083/65052376_2276846485742620_2914513598170529792_n.png
2019-06-21T04:58:20 < dongs> i dont get it
2019-06-21T04:59:13 < rajkosto> lolrence will
2019-06-21T04:59:19 < dongs> i hope so
2019-06-21T04:59:29 < dongs> im kinda glad I don't cuz its probably something gay as fuck
2019-06-21T05:08:14 < Cracki> haha
2019-06-21T05:08:21 < Cracki> actually not gay
2019-06-21T05:08:25 < Cracki> unless you mean gnaa
2019-06-21T05:08:36 < rajkosto> GLOW IN THE DARK
2019-06-21T05:09:12 < Cracki> know your meme ;)
2019-06-21T05:09:48 < Cracki> and of course knowyourmeme doesn't say what the 50% are
2019-06-21T05:10:35 < Cracki> this seems to be the source https://www.infowars.com/berkeley-shooting-again-highlights-buried-issue-of-violence-within-black-community/
2019-06-21T05:11:17 < Cracki> >“According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics
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2019-06-21T06:06:43 < englishman> fucking scamtec https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is1b6mqzxFA
2019-06-21T06:11:28 < dongs> how much did they rip them off
2019-06-21T06:11:33 < dongs> those just look like chinese pogo pins
2019-06-21T06:11:46 < englishman> probably what they shipped
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2019-06-21T10:34:20 < jly> zyklon b sales have gone up
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2019-06-21T11:35:15 < Steffann> Sounds all fucked up, jly 
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2019-06-21T12:36:06 < con3> anyone here used the white noise generator function of the DAC? I think I was expecting the fft to be slightly different
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2019-06-21T12:38:11 < karlp> have you read the app note on it from ST?
2019-06-21T12:38:40 < con3> karlp: I have let me just check again
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2019-06-21T12:50:55 < con3> karlp: I might be missing something.. I ont really see anything of value?
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2019-06-21T13:03:00 < karlp> then perhaps try epanding on what your concern is?
2019-06-21T13:06:46 < con3> karlp: quickly trying to plot the graphs
2019-06-21T13:14:04 < con3> so this is what I'm currently getting out. I get that the fft has a dc peak, but I thought the fft spectrum would be a lot more flat with less change between frequencies. https://imgur.com/a/d8VxQhT
2019-06-21T13:14:09 < con3> karlp: ^
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2019-06-21T13:16:06 < con3> something like this with a dc peak : https://i.stack.imgur.com/MMr0a.png
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2019-06-21T13:17:08 < karlp> looks pretty flat to me, you want audiophool stuff or something?
2019-06-21T13:17:34 < karlp> are you sure you're not just overanalysing it?
2019-06-21T13:18:38 < con3> karlp: Definetly think that's it. Don't really have a gauge of how the fft of this thing should look from these mcu's so just wanted a double check. thank you! 
2019-06-21T13:21:13 < karlp> were you expecting a perfectly flat fft? might be ideal, but if yo're doing 250Mhz on it, you might just be overmeasuring, or picking up anything from your board too
2019-06-21T13:21:55 < Thorn> https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/06/21/proton-spektr-rg-mission-status-center/
2019-06-21T13:28:44 < zyp> looks pretty flat to me too, you don't have that many distinct steps on that graph so also consider the resolution
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2019-06-21T13:50:58 < con3> karlp: Thorn: I think my band of interest if you look at the fft is prior to about the 500 sample region, which isn't really too flat. I'm going to try and save one with more resolution, but It seems to save the whole signal instead of a portion. one sec
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2019-06-21T14:07:41 < BrainDamage> con3: your white noise has a dc bias on it
2019-06-21T14:08:27 < BrainDamage> and dc bias implies 1/f noise
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2019-06-21T14:16:45 < con3> BrainDamage: I completely agree with you that it looks like pink noise and not white : https://i.stack.imgur.com/MMr0a.png . I need to dig a bit deeper cause i can't seem to get the white noise generation function to omit the dc
2019-06-21T14:20:35 < BrainDamage> well, pink noise is the combination of 1/f noise and white noise
2019-06-21T14:21:07 < BrainDamage> the reason why you get dc bias is simply because of the supply rail structure and internal adc
2019-06-21T14:21:22 < BrainDamage> and 1/f noise is pretty much inevitable with mosfets due to intrinsec mechanisms
2019-06-21T14:21:51 < BrainDamage> I wuld suggest you to simply add an highpass filter
2019-06-21T14:22:47 < con3> BrainDamage: that's what I'm thinking of doing. Looks like what they recommend on some posts as well. Going to read up a bit and will report back. Thanks a lot for the input BrainDamage, karlp and Thorn. Really appreciate it
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2019-06-21T15:43:58 < zyp> can't you just get rid of the DC bias by subtracting it?
2019-06-21T15:55:49 < englishman> turn that 1/f noise in to f/1 noise
2019-06-21T16:07:48 < BrainDamage> zyp: 1/f noise means that the dc bias wanders with time, so you need periodic sampling of the baseline, this is actually common practice for sensors
2019-06-21T16:08:23 < BrainDamage> the resulting effect is 2 deltas in time, which is equivalent to a sin(x) in frequency, which is ... a highpass filter
2019-06-21T16:08:44 < BrainDamage> ( the first lobe )
2019-06-21T16:09:49 < BrainDamage> the period of the frequency sine is dependent ofc on the sampling period of baseline
2019-06-21T16:10:30 < BrainDamage> the more problematic part is that he wants a flat-ish spectrum, and the sine effect might distort it
2019-06-21T16:10:53 < BrainDamage> so you have a compromise between 1/f suppression and spectral flatness
2019-06-21T16:12:19 < englishman> you need a chopper + LIA for high quality audiophile grade white noise reproduction
2019-06-21T16:14:30 < BrainDamage> well, ofc it boils up to numbers, "white noise" only needs to be flat within a working region, not 2THz bandwith and the degree of flatness
2019-06-21T16:16:38 < englishman> how have you been BrainDamage
2019-06-21T16:16:53 < BrainDamage> stressed and tired
2019-06-21T16:17:06 < englishman> been like that a while now
2019-06-21T16:17:40 < englishman> what will you do about it?
2019-06-21T16:18:31 < BrainDamage> burn out?
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2019-06-21T16:19:22 < englishman> if it means you can relax, sometimes it works.
2019-06-21T16:20:00 < con3> "turn that 1/f noise in to f/1 noise" -> so just inverting op amp?
2019-06-21T16:24:52 < englishman> ah no it was a joke. as F1 makes cool noise. 1/f noise is a real and important phenomenon
2019-06-21T16:28:18 < con3> englishman: I'm just kidding ;)
2019-06-21T16:30:56 < con3> Does look like there are a lot of hardware solutions that I might try as well if the filtering doesn't work out
2019-06-21T17:06:04 < con3> so if I've got this right ( dont think i do) The lfsr in the stm32 generates a prbs which is fed to the dac and the dac then outputs "white noise" ?
2019-06-21T17:40:25 < jadew`> man... farnell's site got so much worse
2019-06-21T17:42:02 < jadew`> takes good seconds to load a page and after it's loaded it still keeps changing the layout so everything jumps around
2019-06-21T17:42:21 < jadew`> then there's that stupid header that's always at the top, regardless of where you're scrolling
2019-06-21T17:42:33 < Steffann> Awhhh
2019-06-21T17:43:19 < Steffann> Will you be alright jadew`  ?
2019-06-21T17:43:39 < jadew`> Steffann, yes, I can deal with this
2019-06-21T17:43:58 < Steffann> Good good
2019-06-21T17:44:38 < jadew`> I disabled javascript
2019-06-21T17:44:54 < jadew`> at least there are no more layout changes when I'm trying to click something
2019-06-21T17:45:17 < qyx> I didn't know farnell's web can be even worse than it was in the past
2019-06-21T17:45:25 < qyx> it is like with st.com
2019-06-21T17:45:37 < qyx> worse with every upgrade
2019-06-21T17:46:10 < jadew`> makes you wonder what's going on in there
2019-06-21T17:46:18 < jadew`> someone is requesting those changes
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2019-06-21T18:40:46 < Cracki> blame fresh "web design" graduates who have no fucking clue about the horrible cost of the "good ideas" they've been taught
2019-06-21T18:42:00 < specing> web design graduates?
2019-06-21T18:42:10 < specing> you mean those with a high school diploma?
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2019-06-21T18:43:11 < rajkosto> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/m0EwDsWivV4/maxresdefault.jpg INNOVATION
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2019-06-21T18:48:44 < Thorn> video for samtec haters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is1b6mqzxFA
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2019-06-21T23:12:51 < englishman> Thorn: linked last night
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2019-06-21T23:52:55 < Steffanx> I wonder if he meant: Connectors FINALLY arrived
--- Day changed Sat Jun 22 2019
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2019-06-22T00:22:03 < kakimir> hello ##nightline32
2019-06-22T00:22:14 < englishman> hi kako
2019-06-22T00:22:19 < rajkosto> if stm32 is so good then why is there no stm64
2019-06-22T00:24:14 < kakimir> englishman: kakoa = to cought to sort your throat
2019-06-22T00:24:45 < englishman> is that a threat
2019-06-22T00:24:52 < kakimir> there is no excact translation I think
2019-06-22T00:26:43 < kakimir> "kakista ulos" is a command to speak your mind
2019-06-22T00:27:53 < kakimir> or "out from kaki"
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2019-06-22T00:29:17 < kakimir> oh... "cough it out" is very good translation
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2019-06-22T00:32:44 < kakimir> "ulos" means out
2019-06-22T00:33:02 < kakimir> "ulos!" means get out
2019-06-22T00:33:20 < Steffanx> Dual core counts as stm64 rajkosto 
2019-06-22T00:33:48 < rajkosto> worked for the sega saturn
2019-06-22T00:33:51 < rajkosto> just add the bits together
2019-06-22T00:37:33 < specing> Where is the stm128
2019-06-22T00:37:38 < specing> and stm256
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2019-06-22T01:46:52 < bitmask> little birdie stuck behind the bathroom exhaust fan/light
2019-06-22T01:50:54  * karlp is finally listening to someon's lazerhawk earspam
2019-06-22T01:59:51 < englishman> sounds dangerous
2019-06-22T02:03:32 < englishman> NASA hacked because of unauthorized Raspberry Pi connected to its network
2019-06-22T02:07:00 < karlp> users man.
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2019-06-22T12:13:22 < Steffanx> Lol what are you doing BrainDamage  
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2019-06-22T15:52:33 < jadew`> sup peeps?
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2019-06-22T15:54:00 < Steffanx> sky.
2019-06-22T15:54:03 < Steffanx> There?
2019-06-22T15:54:14 < jadew> not that high
2019-06-22T15:54:58 < Steffanx> So hows the day in romanialand?
2019-06-22T15:55:16 < jadew> it's sunny and nice
2019-06-22T15:55:54 < jadew> in Dutchland?
2019-06-22T15:56:43 < PaulFertser> Do people in Dutchland learn the notion of signal modulation (as in AM/FM) at school?
2019-06-22T15:57:16 < jadew> PaulFertser, I'd guess it depends on the school you're attending
2019-06-22T15:57:53 < PaulFertser> jadew: but there should be some state standards I guess
2019-06-22T15:58:04 < PaulFertser> So my question is rather if it's part of standard education or not.
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2019-06-22T15:58:57 < jadew> I know for a fact that it was covered in school for me, but I don't know if it was standard or not
2019-06-22T15:59:32 < PaulFertser> jadew: thank you for the data point!
2019-06-22T16:00:38 < sync> PaulFertser: in deutschland it's not part of the curriculum
2019-06-22T16:00:47 < PaulFertser> sync: noted, thank you too!
2019-06-22T16:01:38 < effractur> in the nederlands it is part of the curriculum for havo and vwo
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2019-06-22T16:01:57 < effractur> if they take physics as a exam course
2019-06-22T16:03:04 < PaulFertser> So kinda optional but known among those who is interested in physics, I see, thank you effractur 
2019-06-22T16:03:51 < effractur> PaulFertser: maby it is also discussed in the mandatory physics courses in havo/vwo but that i do not know
2019-06-22T16:05:40 < PaulFertser> I was just told the UK population has no clue at all, and 99% of them would not be able to tell the difference between AM and FM.
2019-06-22T16:05:50 < Steffanx> i dont recall doing that effractur.
2019-06-22T16:06:06 < PaulFertser> Are Laurenceb__'s fellow citizens really that dumb?
2019-06-22T16:06:34 < Steffanx> afaik my physics at high school did not involve AM/FM. Only sound waves and stuff.
2019-06-22T16:07:12 < Steffanx> but i know effractur is a bit younger, so .. things might have changed
2019-06-22T16:07:27 < PaulFertser> I can't remember if learnt about it in russian school or not because I was reading some "ham radio for kids" books at that time.
2019-06-22T16:08:02 < Steffanx> but usually things in dutchland only change in a bad way, so i cannot imagine they do learn about am/fm nowadays :D
2019-06-22T16:08:17 < jadew> I had weird teachers, for me it was covered in two separate classes, before highschool
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2019-06-22T16:09:09 < Steffanx> Here high school starts at age 11-12 or something. No way they teach you signal modulation before that.
2019-06-22T16:09:10 < jadew> in physics, where we had great teachers and in something that was like... a class for boys
2019-06-22T16:09:17 < jadew> where we did metal working, electronics, etc
2019-06-22T16:09:45 < jadew> highschool starts at 14 here
2019-06-22T16:10:10 < PaulFertser> This site says it's part of a school book (with nice pictures, probably from soviet era): http://class-fizika.ru/11_45.html receiver schematics included.
2019-06-22T16:10:32 < Steffanx> heh cool
2019-06-22T16:11:23 < jadew> oh right... and in 5th grade I know me and my desk colleague built FM radios
2019-06-22T16:11:29 < jadew> but that was extra curricular
2019-06-22T16:11:38 < jadew> mine was shit, so I bought his
2019-06-22T16:12:43 < jadew> (I still have it somewhere)
2019-06-22T16:13:33 < effractur> Steffanx: it seems to be part of the current exam program
2019-06-22T16:13:50 < Steffanx> Even for havo?
2019-06-22T16:14:33 < effractur> Steffanx: yes 
2019-06-22T16:14:38 < Steffanx> im surprised.
2019-06-22T16:14:38 < effractur> according to the sylabus
2019-06-22T16:15:03 < effractur> but only they have to know how it works
2019-06-22T16:15:06 < effractur> not calculating with it
2019-06-22T16:15:50 < effractur> https://www.examenblad.nl/examenstof/syllabus-2019-natuurkunde-havo/2019/f=/natuurkunde_havo_2_versie_2019.pdf
2019-06-22T16:15:56 < Steffanx> isee
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2019-06-22T16:21:47 < qyx> PaulFertser: no such thing at hight school in sk
2019-06-22T16:22:14 < qyx> electromagnetism and radio waves yes, but no modulations
2019-06-22T16:24:32 < qyx> "havo" is how kids call a dog here
2019-06-22T16:32:02 < Steffanx> heh
2019-06-22T16:32:24 < Steffanx> = Higher General Secondary Education
2019-06-22T16:38:04 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@2a01:e35:8b76:a0f0:9596:3626:6c73:c185] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-06-22T16:46:23 < jadew> that's highschool?
2019-06-22T16:47:35 < jadew> we have elementary (1-4), gymnasium (5-8), highschool (9-12)
2019-06-22T16:48:05 < jadew> with a recently added, pre-elementary year
2019-06-22T16:48:14 < jadew> the bar is set so high for kids these days...
2019-06-22T16:48:50 < jadew> by age 6, they're expected to know to read (at least a little) and do basic math
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2019-06-22T17:40:20 < Thorn> my RSSI is -80...-81dBm when channel is empty, -48...-53dBm when there is a transmission
2019-06-22T17:40:29 < Thorn> is it too high to be realistic?
2019-06-22T17:44:42 < Thorn> https://www.pasternack.com/t-calculator-fspl.aspx gives 51.2dB @ 10 m 868 MHz
2019-06-22T17:45:38 < Thorn> TX power is +16dBm so actual loss is 65...79dB
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2019-06-22T18:21:16 < Rickta59> found my new favorite cheap board .. the robotdyn stm32f303cc
2019-06-22T18:21:38 < Rickta59> rom dfu out of the box ... just need a usb cable to get started
2019-06-22T18:24:57 < Steffanx> Fuck debuggers right? ;)
2019-06-22T18:25:22 < Rickta59> it has the swd pins easily accesible so that too
2019-06-22T18:25:48 < Rickta59> as is the boot0 pin .. jumpered
2019-06-22T18:26:31 < qyx> rom dfu is a function of the stm32 itself, not the board
2019-06-22T18:26:52 < Rickta59> sure i know that .. i've been living in the stone ages with the stm32f103
2019-06-22T18:27:21 < Rickta59> i just meant that out of the box it is useable less than $5
2019-06-22T18:28:14 < Rickta59> not that i even like bootloaders, i tend to use a debugger most of the time
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2019-06-22T19:00:42 < Thorn> I keep reading that an RTOS improves a developer's quality of life hugely, but I'm looking at what I'm writing using my event queue and software timers and I can't see how moving to an RTOS would simplify my code (basically state machines, fully event driven)
2019-06-22T19:00:47 < Thorn> what am I doing wrong
2019-06-22T19:01:56 < mawk> how are you doing it without your event loop Thorn ?
2019-06-22T19:02:14 < mawk> a big for loop that waits for events and dispatchs them ?
2019-06-22T19:02:49 < Thorn> my main loop is while (true) { events::dispatch(); __WFI(); }
2019-06-22T19:02:57 < mawk> yes ok
2019-06-22T19:03:18 < mawk> well yeah that works pretty well, that's how I code under linux
2019-06-22T19:03:23 < mawk> so I rarely need threads
2019-06-22T19:03:36 < Thorn> preemptive task switching would only complicate my stuff afaict
2019-06-22T19:03:44 < mawk> on a mcu tho when you start to have timing requirements, eg preemption, a rtos is good tho
2019-06-22T19:04:02 < mawk> yeah if you don't need preemption your thing is good as is, you'll never have like race conditions or stuff
2019-06-22T19:04:42 < Thorn> timing requirements would be solved by using interrupts
2019-06-22T19:05:01 < mawk> ah so you have code inside the interrupts too
2019-06-22T19:05:08 < mawk> not just flipping event flags
2019-06-22T19:05:26 < Thorn> although my radio MAC scheduler initiates all rx/tx from the main thread, triggered by an event
2019-06-22T19:05:34 < mawk> well now if you start accessing data common to event handlers and interrupts you may start to have concurrency issues
2019-06-22T19:05:51 < Thorn> so far all scheduling errors are 0 ms (with 1ms resolution)
2019-06-22T19:05:55 < mawk> but nothing that can't be solved with a good programming style of never doing anything blocking in an event handler
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2019-06-22T19:48:16 < catphish> i'm a little confused about something, if a cpu has to read each instruction from memory in order to execute it, when does it find time to use the memory for anything else?
2019-06-22T19:48:50 < Thorn> it slows down to wait for the bus basically
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2019-06-22T19:50:54 < catphish> i've never interfaced a cpu directly to anyhting before, i guess i'll see soon enough how it works
2019-06-22T19:51:08 < Thorn> things like intel core spend most of their time doing essentially nothing
2019-06-22T19:51:37 < catphish> intel does multiple cycles per instruction right? so some of those might be spent fetching instructions
2019-06-22T19:51:49 < catphish> i'm looking specifically at a 68000 cpu
2019-06-22T19:51:53 < catphish> which is also CISC
2019-06-22T19:52:27 < Thorn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wait_state
2019-06-22T19:56:41 < BrainDamage> cache stall is #1 performance issue with most modern cpus
2019-06-22T19:57:19 < BrainDamage> in order to alleviate this, several layers of faster memory ( cache ) is placed close to the core
2019-06-22T19:57:35 < BrainDamage> and instructions and data are fetched by chunks
2019-06-22T19:57:45 < BrainDamage> exploiting temporal and spatial locality principles
2019-06-22T19:58:08 < BrainDamage> ( if you use some data, it's likely that you'll use it again in the future, and that you'll use something in its proximity )
2019-06-22T19:58:54 < BrainDamage> there's a tons of other band-aids, but no definitive fix exists
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2019-06-22T20:57:32 < bitmask> haha this is getting ridiculous: https://i.imgur.com/B5kjvWS.png
2019-06-22T20:59:40 < jadew> bitmask, you're gonna print that?
2019-06-22T20:59:51 < bitmask> yup
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2019-06-22T21:02:19 < superbia> good evening fuckers
2019-06-22T21:02:23 < bitmask> I have the cyclones printed, and I printed the impeller but I have to reprint it
2019-06-22T21:13:19 < jadew> bitmask, why?
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2019-06-22T21:13:31 < jadew> didn't that thing take a day to print
2019-06-22T21:14:47 < bitmask> yea but I need to print it a little smaller.  I wasn't thinking about the casing when I sized it and I would have to cut it into 4 pieces to print it.  If I shrink it down to 91% of what it is then the casing will fit on my print bed
2019-06-22T21:16:07 < bitmask> and I want to design a way to attach the impeller to a motor, I sized the hole for my current motor which I'm not gonna be using, I need a better connection
2019-06-22T21:19:37 < bitmask> order one for me and I'll give you an in depth review
2019-06-22T21:24:56 < jadew> lol https://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-SMA-Calibration-Kit-RF-Test-Coaxial-Connector-Short-Load-Open-Thru-Type-/362680301829
2019-06-22T21:25:27 < jadew> $14 cal kit - no data provided
2019-06-22T21:25:34 < jadew> I assume it's perfect
2019-06-22T21:31:20 < BrainDamage> you know what they say
2019-06-22T21:31:39 < jadew> you get what you pay for?
2019-06-22T21:31:42 < BrainDamage> the man that has one clock always knows the time, the man that has two doesn't
2019-06-22T21:32:13 < jadew> pretty sure that if all you had was that cal kit, you still wouldn't know
2019-06-22T21:32:15 < BrainDamage> despite statistics telling the opposite
2019-06-22T21:32:21 < BrainDamage> that's the joke
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--- Day changed Sun Jun 23 2019
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2019-06-23T00:35:25 < kakimir> where are the cats
2019-06-23T00:35:33 < kakimir> topic promises cats
2019-06-23T00:36:19 < emeb> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/wBEI4yhN/IMG_4405.JPG
2019-06-23T00:36:41 < kakimir> excelent
2019-06-23T00:37:42 < Steffanx> Is this in emeb's house?
2019-06-23T00:37:56 < emeb> Steffanx: no - just some random pic I saw elsewhere.
2019-06-23T00:38:01 < Steffanx> Hah
2019-06-23T00:38:03  * emeb no longer has cats
2019-06-23T00:38:24 < Steffanx> Cats are in pro stm32 telegram kakimir  :)
2019-06-23T00:42:52 < Thorn> kakimir: -offtopic
2019-06-23T00:46:04 < kakimir> autumn started in funland
2019-06-23T00:46:45 < kakimir> kinda
2019-06-23T00:47:40 < Steffanx> Here it's getting hot
2019-06-23T00:47:46 < Steffanx> Terribly hot
2019-06-23T00:47:53 < kakimir> raining and cold
2019-06-23T00:48:03 < kakimir> soon it starts to get actually dark at night
2019-06-23T00:48:53 < zyp> uh
2019-06-23T00:48:58 < Steffanx> I hope it's a lie, but the forecast says 36C for next week
2019-06-23T00:49:01 < zyp> summer equinox was yesterday
2019-06-23T00:49:17 < zyp> should be quite a while before the nights get dark again, no?
2019-06-23T00:49:33 < Steffanx> Not in.the basement
2019-06-23T00:50:01 < Steffanx> Is Norway into female soccer much zyp?
2019-06-23T00:51:20 < zyp> dunno, I'm in Laurencebland
2019-06-23T00:51:52 < kakimir> why
2019-06-23T00:51:54 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2019-06-23T00:52:14 < zyp> vacation
2019-06-23T00:52:27 < Steffanx> Did you mean the blaster yet?
2019-06-23T00:52:33 < Steffanx> Meet*
2019-06-23T00:52:37 < Steffanx> Damn
2019-06-23T00:52:59 < kakimir> good idea
2019-06-23T00:53:08 < Steffanx> And blaxter, such auto correction 
2019-06-23T00:53:27 < emeb> autocarrot
2019-06-23T00:53:37 < Steffanx> Yeah
2019-06-23T00:53:54 < Steffanx> Laurenceb__ is still alive.
2019-06-23T00:54:02  * emeb curses STM32H7
2019-06-23T00:54:33 < zyp> nah, I'm just visiting london and last I checked Laurenceb__ were a couple of hours away or something
2019-06-23T00:55:17 < Steffanx> Why mr emeb  ?
2019-06-23T00:55:37 < emeb> Steffanx: memory stuff is a bit of a nuisance.
2019-06-23T00:56:07 < emeb> new layout makes it hard to have DMA into uncached RAM
2019-06-23T00:56:14 < Steffanx> Time to play with the new dual core one
2019-06-23T00:57:02 < emeb> only RAM that's not cached is DTCM, but you can't directly DMA into it - needs to go thru 2-step process via DMA -> MDMA
2019-06-23T00:57:47 < emeb> Steffanx: I'm sure that the dual core is even worse.
2019-06-23T01:04:54 < Thorn> can you use any boost controller as a flyback controller?
2019-06-23T01:07:34 < zyp> emeb, can't you just use the MPU to configure an uncached region in normal sram?
2019-06-23T01:07:54 < Steffanx> Heh was about ask the same
2019-06-23T01:09:18 < emeb> zyp: you'd think so. I've tried that before and it doesn't seem to work.
2019-06-23T01:09:42 < emeb> (no F7)
2019-06-23T01:09:49 < emeb> s/no/on/
2019-06-23T01:11:29 < zyp> what about explicit cache invalidation? tried that?
2019-06-23T01:11:40 < emeb> that's what I'm doing now.
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2019-06-23T01:12:14 < zyp> yeah?
2019-06-23T01:12:26 < emeb> works fine, but it uses like 200 clk cycles per IRQ to do the cache tweaking.
2019-06-23T01:13:07 < zyp> ah, so it's a latency issue?
2019-06-23T01:13:17 < emeb> more just overhead.
2019-06-23T01:13:54 < emeb> if there were an easy way to avoid the cache that would be preferrable. On F7 the DTCM is easy to use.
2019-06-23T01:14:00 < emeb> but no help on H7
2019-06-23T01:14:06 < zyp> is your DMA job size fixed?
2019-06-23T01:14:16 < emeb> yes - just circular buffers for the SAI
2019-06-23T01:14:24 < emeb> always running
2019-06-23T01:15:16 < zyp> if latency is not an issue then you could offset the overhead by increasing the buffer size, so cache invalidation can happen less often
2019-06-23T01:15:48 < zyp> 200 cycles does sound like a lot though
2019-06-23T01:16:16 < zyp> have you checked how much performance suffers if you turn off data cache completely? (is that possible?)
2019-06-23T01:16:55 < emeb> I've tried it previously on F7 stuff and it made a big difference there.
2019-06-23T01:17:26 < emeb> I suspect that on H7 it would be even moreso due to the faster CPU clock.
2019-06-23T01:17:49 < emeb> but haven't actually done it on H7 yet.
2019-06-23T01:20:15 < zyp> wait, how fast was H7 again? 400MHz? so 200 cycles is half a microsecond? :)
2019-06-23T01:21:54 < zyp> hmm
2019-06-23T01:21:56 < zyp> «Any access that is not for a TCM or the AHBP interface is handled by the appropriate cache controller. If the access is to Non-shared cacheable memory, and the cache is enabled, a lookup is performed in the cache and, if found in the cache, that is, a cache hit, the data is fetched from or written into the cache. When the cache is not enabled and for Non-cacheable or Shared memory the accesses are performed 
2019-06-23T01:22:02 < zyp> using the AXIM interface.»
2019-06-23T01:22:11 < zyp> so marking it as non-cacheable or shared should work
2019-06-23T01:23:42 < emeb> Right - that's the same thing it says for F7.
2019-06-23T01:24:01 < zyp> well, I'm just reading the M7 TRM now, should be same for both
2019-06-23T01:24:03 < emeb> And I tried marking my DMA stuff non-cacheable / shared and it didn't help.
2019-06-23T01:24:13 < emeb> but I suppose I can try it here too.
2019-06-23T01:24:56 < zyp> well, as far as I can tell it's supposed to work, and when something that's supposed to work doesn't, a quite possible explanation is that it weren't done correctly :)
2019-06-23T01:25:43 < zyp> maybe you've got overlapping region definitions or something, so it doesn't hit the right one
2019-06-23T01:26:28 < zyp> maybe try disabling access to the region to see that it's getting hit and throws a memmanage fault?
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2019-06-23T01:38:39 < emeb> heh
2019-06-23T01:38:53 < emeb> OK, MPU works here. But...
2019-06-23T01:40:04 < emeb> I set it up to use RAM #3 which is on a slower bus, so overall, it makes the ISR even slower. :P
2019-06-23T01:40:46 < emeb> ARM giveth and ARM taketh away.
2019-06-23T01:45:18 < emeb> RAM #2 is the same
2019-06-23T01:47:55 < emeb> so, best way to go is to leave the cache on and use the invalid/clear functions - takes an extra 0.5us but it's overall > 2x faster than uncached access.
2019-06-23T01:48:14 < emeb> this is how we learn...
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2019-06-23T02:15:08 < zyp> interesting
2019-06-23T02:15:25 < zyp> how are you accessing the memory? bytewise?
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2019-06-23T02:17:34 < zyp> I guess in that case marking it as uncacheable will send eight 8-bit reads all the way to the sram instead of doing a singe 64-bit load to cache and serve the reads from there
2019-06-23T02:18:05 < zyp> cache should be pretty useful if you're accessing the memory sequentially too
2019-06-23T02:18:15 < zyp> with a random access pattern it'd probably matter much less
2019-06-23T02:20:37 < emeb> This is audio data, so 16-bits at a time. 
2019-06-23T02:21:57 < zyp> four instead of eight, but still :)
2019-06-23T02:22:01 < emeb> yep
2019-06-23T02:22:15  * emeb learns to relax and love the cache
2019-06-23T02:22:18 < zyp> hmm, is the sram 64-bit wide though?
2019-06-23T02:22:51 < zyp> I guess prefetching would help too
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2019-06-23T02:23:48 < emeb> there are 4 different types of SRAM in the H7 - DTCM, AXI, D2 AHB and D3 AHB.
2019-06-23T02:24:04 < emeb> AXI is 64-bit, AHB is 32 bit
2019-06-23T02:25:30 < emeb> my tests above were with the DMA buffers in D2 AHB.
2019-06-23T02:25:34 < zyp> and you only compared AXI with cache invalidation and AHB set to uncacheable?
2019-06-23T02:25:50 < zyp> not AHB with cache invalidation or AXI uncacheable=
2019-06-23T02:25:59 < emeb> I also had AHB w/ cache on/off & invalidation.
2019-06-23T02:26:15 < emeb> It seemed to perform about the same as AXI, oddly.
2019-06-23T02:26:30 < zyp> in both cases?
2019-06-23T02:26:59 < zyp> I'd expect them to be equally slow when uncacheable (since 16-bit accesses are always 16-bit accesses then)
2019-06-23T02:27:13 < emeb> Yeah - it was pretty much the same.
2019-06-23T02:27:18 < zyp> and AXI faster when cached, since 64-bit accesses are faster than 32-bit accesses
2019-06-23T02:27:34 < zyp> I mean, not faster, but you only need half of them
2019-06-23T02:27:54 < emeb> Can't say I saw cached performance differ between AXI and AHB.
2019-06-23T02:29:21 < zyp> well, presumably AXI _should_ be faster, otherwise there wouldn't be a point in having it
2019-06-23T02:29:24 < zyp> :)
2019-06-23T02:29:43 < emeb> Yeah. Perhaps my use case just doesn't show it.
2019-06-23T02:29:47 < emeb> So AFAICT - the fastest way would be to set up MDMA into the DTCM - that way it'd be direct uncached w/o needing invalidation.
2019-06-23T02:29:56 < emeb> But setting up MDMA looks like a huge PITA.
2019-06-23T02:30:03 < zyp> what's MDMA?
2019-06-23T02:30:20 < zyp> a new peripheral that only does memory to memory DMA?
2019-06-23T02:30:25 < emeb> "Master DMA" - a new block in the H7
2019-06-23T02:30:44 < zyp> what does the word master imply?
2019-06-23T02:31:25 < emeb> It looks like a descriptor-based (scatter/gather?) DMA machine that can talk to the normal DMA system and push its stuff onto AXI and/or into the TCMs.
2019-06-23T02:32:32 < zyp> ah
2019-06-23T02:32:44 < zyp> cool, I've been wanting scatter/gather DMA
2019-06-23T02:34:03 < emeb> Not actually sure if it does scatter/gather, but setup requires building some hairy descriptors.
2019-06-23T02:38:24 < zyp> seems strange to have a descriptor system if you can't chain them
2019-06-23T02:41:45 < emeb> from the docs: https://pastebin.com/Sv95RBkw
2019-06-23T02:41:56 < emeb> linked lists of transfer nodes
2019-06-23T02:42:02 < emeb> so they can be chained
2019-06-23T02:43:06 < zyp> yup, then it's scatter/gather
2019-06-23T02:55:52 < mawk> I want some mdma too
2019-06-23T03:07:44 < Thorn> zyp: the main advantage of my MAC is that it can use any cheap FSK etc. transceiver (I think I'm going to be moving away from sx1276 because of cost, e.g. si4432 looks good as an alternative)
2019-06-23T03:09:23 < Thorn> btw it's not just a MAC, it's an app layer and data encoding too
2019-06-23T03:09:42 < Thorn> (I hope it's much more sane than e.g. zigbee)
2019-06-23T03:10:42 < mawk> as long as you don't require $4k to give out the specs it'll be more sane than zigbee
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2019-06-23T03:21:45 < zyp> mawk, what $4k?
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2019-06-23T03:23:24 < zyp> I downloaded the zigbee spec when I started dicking around with it, didn't pay jack shit
2019-06-23T03:33:53 < Thorn> I downloaded it too. 802.15.4 spec was a little harder to find but I found it @ some .edu
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2019-06-23T04:17:06 < mawk> yeah zigbee is available zyp 
2019-06-23T04:17:11 < mawk> I had ANT or Thread in mind
2019-06-23T04:17:25 < mawk> they're all zigbee concurrents
2019-06-23T04:17:42 < mawk> but yeah zigbee spec is available, but if you want your zigbee logo on your product you need to pay the membership
2019-06-23T04:19:34 < mawk> there's "dot" also now, another concurrent standard
2019-06-23T04:19:38 < mawk> and also obviously zwave stuff
2019-06-23T04:19:45 < mawk> and now there's Thorn stuff
2019-06-23T04:19:55 < mawk> https://xkcd.com/927/
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2019-06-23T04:22:49 < Cracki> xkcd is problematic
2019-06-23T04:23:06 < Cracki> anti-NIH-ilism is oppression
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2019-06-23T05:51:08 < rajkosto> i have a strange issue
2019-06-23T05:51:15 < rajkosto> i have a n-mosfet BSS123LT1
2019-06-23T05:51:17 < rajkosto> i solder it
2019-06-23T05:51:19 < rajkosto> its no longer a mosfet
2019-06-23T05:51:38 < rajkosto> base and source have 0.3 to 1.2kohm resistoance and source and drain have 5ohm resistance when measured
2019-06-23T06:21:16 < rajkosto> happens every time and only when i solder it to that place
2019-06-23T06:29:15 < rajkosto> BLOWN AGAIN
2019-06-23T06:29:39 < englishman> time to run down the checklist again
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2019-06-23T06:34:31 < rajkosto> its only after its connected to the traces
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2019-06-23T06:58:53 < rajkosto> and yet if i use a NPN there
2019-06-23T06:58:54 < rajkosto> all good
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2019-06-23T08:07:57 < jadew> seems like for the past couple of days I've been looking for something that doesn't exist
2019-06-23T08:08:40 < jadew> I need a panel mount DC connector that's edge mounted, so it sits straight in the middle of the PCB (there's not a lot of vertical room)
2019-06-23T08:09:19 < jadew> something like this: https://media.rs-online.com/t_large/F0487832-01.jpg
2019-06-23T08:09:27 < jadew> but without the impractically positioned pins
2019-06-23T08:09:53 < jadew> the pins should hug the PCB or at least all of them lay flat on it
2019-06-23T08:11:14 < jadew> and it needs that nut, I don't want the PCB to handle the insertion/removal force
2019-06-23T08:19:21 < Ultrasauce> just cut slots in the pcb for those pins
2019-06-23T08:19:43 < jadew> I explored that option, they don't line up correctly
2019-06-23T08:20:16 < jadew> the vertical space I have available is exactly the diameter of that connector
2019-06-23T08:20:43 < jadew> and no matter how I spin it, the two pins I need don't land on the obard
2019-06-23T08:20:46 < jadew> *board
2019-06-23T08:21:12 < jadew> I'm trying to avoid making another board
2019-06-23T08:21:17 < jadew> mainly for space considerations
2019-06-23T08:21:31 < Ultrasauce> jeez maybe a barrel jack is not the right choice at all then
2019-06-23T08:21:54 < jadew> yeah, it's not a great choice, but I want it for mechanical strength
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2019-06-23T11:34:58 < qyx> jadew: use vertical pcb mount M12 as a pro
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2019-06-23T14:48:14 < con3> Is there anyway to output the bit stream of the true random number generator?
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2019-06-23T14:55:12 < con3> crap nevermind, got it
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2019-06-23T16:18:05 < Thorn> warning: comparison of constant '4294967295' with boolean expression is always true
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2019-06-23T18:07:48 < specing> Lol, stuff is actually more expensive on ali during this mid year sale of theirs
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2019-06-23T20:46:48 < Steffanx> crickets.
2019-06-23T20:52:49 < englishman> would those little 80x160 0.96" spi IPS screens be any fun to play with
2019-06-23T20:53:04 < englishman> could put a lil debug display on practically anything
2019-06-23T20:53:08 < englishman> with full colour
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2019-06-23T21:02:30 < bitmask> chirp chirp
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2019-06-23T21:13:39 < Steffanx> meh englishman. Is that like "put bluetooth on anything"?
2019-06-23T21:13:47 < Steffanx> I'd rather just have some uart or something
2019-06-23T21:13:58 < Steffanx> Welcome bitmask. Hows the brains
2019-06-23T21:14:33 < bitmask> I'm actually just getting set up to print the second half
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2019-06-23T21:18:34 < zyp> englishman, doesn't seem super useful for debugging, but neat enough for small user interfaces
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2019-06-23T21:36:15 < Thorn> holy crap gcc is smart
2019-06-23T21:36:45 < Thorn> I basically remove one call: events::post(event_tag_t::MAC_BEACON_RECEIVED); and .text is reduced by 1 KB
2019-06-23T21:37:21 < Thorn> I spent quite some time figuring out why that call takes so much arm assembly but it's not
2019-06-23T21:37:46 < Thorn> when it's omitted gcc throws away most of the handler that handles that event(!)
2019-06-23T21:38:25 < Thorn> event dispatch is far from trivial and happens across multiple TUs
2019-06-23T21:38:52 < Thorn> but it can apparently still prove that the event handler is unused if the event is never posted
2019-06-23T21:39:05 < Thorn> fucking magic.jpg
2019-06-23T21:39:54 < Thorn> and I don't have LTO enabled afaict
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2019-06-23T21:51:36 < Cracki> maybe that enum value is used nowhere for _writing_ anymore, and then it can strip it out in all read/compare cases
2019-06-23T21:52:24 < Cracki> would require it to understand the implementation of events::post and follow the data
2019-06-23T21:53:20 < Cracki> I'd guess enum-specific optimization, looking at what values are actually used
2019-06-23T22:03:21 < zyp> Thorn, if you don't have LTO enabled, the optimization happens within one translation unit :)
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2019-06-23T22:05:03 < zyp> Cracki, that wouldn't work if the handler operates on data coming from another translation unit
2019-06-23T22:05:38 < zyp> even if the value is never created in this translation unit, it might be passed in from another
2019-06-23T22:06:44 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-06-23T22:07:25 < Cracki> maybe lto is now enabled implicitly
2019-06-23T22:07:34 < Cracki> something must account for this
2019-06-23T22:07:55 < Thorn> well the post() and the handler are in the same TU
2019-06-23T22:08:08 < Cracki> that explains it
2019-06-23T22:08:11 < zyp> is the post() static?
2019-06-23T22:08:17 < Cracki> you said "multiple TUs"
2019-06-23T22:08:40 < Thorn> event dispatch goes through at least 2 more TUs
2019-06-23T22:08:55 < Thorn> post() is not static, it's in a different TU
2019-06-23T22:09:01 < Cracki> still... yeah, that value could come from another TU still, so it can't assume that it's safe to remove
2019-06-23T22:09:16 < Cracki> I'm betting lto is on
2019-06-23T22:13:33 < Cracki> or maybe it removes _something_, but not the switch case for that value
2019-06-23T22:13:48 < Cracki> maybe it inlined something before, that it doesn't when the call is removed
2019-06-23T22:14:14 < Cracki> nvm, you said it's not the call but the handler...
2019-06-23T22:18:03 < Thorn> I enabled LTO and it shaved 2.5KB off my .text
2019-06-23T22:18:18 < Thorn> so it wasn't enabled before lol
2019-06-23T22:18:24 < Cracki> fucking magic
2019-06-23T22:19:13 < Cracki> only way to know is to make it write assembly files and diff them
2019-06-23T22:19:46 < Thorn> ... and the firmware doesn't run anymore lol
2019-06-23T22:28:40 < Cracki> TIL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodynamic_tether because spacex is gonna launch an enormous ride share on monday
2019-06-23T22:31:20 < zyp> one of the books I read earlier this year used those as a plot device
2019-06-23T22:31:56 < Cracki> scifi, gotta love it
2019-06-23T22:32:14 < zyp> yeah
2019-06-23T22:32:30 < zyp> kinda amusing book, dongs would hate it
2019-06-23T22:33:21 < zyp> hmm, actually I read it in december, so not this year :p
2019-06-23T22:33:23 < zyp> https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34454187-orbital-cloud
2019-06-23T22:36:02 < Cracki> >2020
2019-06-23T22:36:34 < Cracki> I want mars fiction scheduled for 2024
2019-06-23T22:37:31 < zyp> one of the characters in the book was ripped off from elon musk
2019-06-23T22:37:40 < Cracki> lemme guess, Ronnie Smark
2019-06-23T22:37:45 < zyp> yeah
2019-06-23T22:37:49 < Cracki> sounds too much like tony stark
2019-06-23T22:38:03 < zyp> yup
2019-06-23T22:38:23 < zyp> book also mentions shit like «raspberry pi fpga edition» or whatever it was
2019-06-23T22:38:35 < Cracki> Ondatra means muskrat, so if any characters with that name show up, y'all know...
2019-06-23T22:38:38 < zyp> kinda ridiculous, but fun enough
2019-06-23T22:39:18 < Thorn> I'd take a Zynq board for $50
2019-06-23T22:39:42 < Cracki> there was a zynq board for 100, they called it "pynq"
2019-06-23T22:39:52 < Cracki> by now it's prolly around 50 bucks and maker-friendly non-pink
2019-06-23T22:40:56 < zyp> yeah
2019-06-23T22:41:06 < zyp> https://uk.farnell.com/tul-corporation/1m4-m000127000/dev-kit-32bit-arm-cortex-a9-mpu/dp/2913031?st=tul-corporation
2019-06-23T22:49:15 < rajkosto> i want DDR4 capable FPGA
2019-06-23T22:49:19 < rajkosto> thats 10$
2019-06-23T22:52:09 < Thorn> make:r friendly home fabs when
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2019-06-23T23:01:49 < Cracki> so... running a VM messes with my system clock
2019-06-23T23:02:28 < Cracki> (host-side)
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2019-06-23T23:56:59 < jadew> man... some footprints are so freaking stupid
2019-06-23T23:57:11 < jadew> sorry, some datasheets
2019-06-23T23:57:24 < jadew> they have dimensions for all the wrong crap
2019-06-23T23:57:43 < jadew> I can't extract footprint information from it
2019-06-23T23:58:23 < zyp> different tools have different ways of inputting coordinates
2019-06-23T23:58:43 < zyp> not everything takes pad center position and height/width
--- Day changed Mon Jun 24 2019
2019-06-24T00:00:31 < jadew> found the info I needed in a datasheet for a different part
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2019-06-24T00:01:00 < jadew> it's possible they thought they can skip it since it's standard
2019-06-24T00:04:27 < zyp> that's also common
2019-06-24T00:04:40 < zyp> some vendors just refer to standard footprint datasheets for the exact measurements
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2019-06-24T00:42:37 < jadew> any good movies lately?
2019-06-24T00:43:54 < englishman> Thorn: I don't think I paid $100 for this zynq from digi
2019-06-24T00:44:46 < Thorn> englishman: I've got a working st7735 driver if you're interested
2019-06-24T00:45:01 < englishman> kool
2019-06-24T00:45:10 < englishman> some of those little things have touchscreens too
2019-06-24T00:45:24 < englishman> for $1 seems real handy
2019-06-24T00:45:38 < englishman> put an IPS display instead of a blinky led
2019-06-24T00:46:03 < englishman> what did you use the st7735 for
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2019-06-24T00:46:24 < rajkosto> 7735 is old stuff
2019-06-24T00:47:13 < Thorn> btw make sure you connect the reset input. my display doesn't work if I don't reset it, even after power-on (and even if software reset is issued)
2019-06-24T00:47:16 < rajkosto> 7789 supports way higher SPI frequencies, and has much less quirks
2019-06-24T00:47:52 < Thorn> rajkosto: small/cheap displays seem to only(?) use st7735
2019-06-24T00:47:59 < englishman> any cool little screens like that one that you prefer raj?
2019-06-24T00:48:05 < rajkosto> 240x240 uses 7789
2019-06-24T00:48:14 < rajkosto> still cheap displays
2019-06-24T00:48:14 < Thorn> englishman: I use a 128x160 display from aliexpress, no-name
2019-06-24T00:48:23 < Thorn> 1.8"
2019-06-24T00:48:42 < rajkosto> for 7789 you only need RESET pin if you tie CS to ground
2019-06-24T00:48:49 < rajkosto> so better to just connect CS instead of reset
2019-06-24T00:48:59 < rajkosto> then you can issue software reset command
2019-06-24T00:49:12 < rajkosto> however for the black and white OLED screens i needed hardware reset
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2019-06-24T00:49:32 < Thorn> I have cs connected too, it still doesn't work until it's reset
2019-06-24T00:49:50 < Thorn> I've got 3 slaves on that SPI
2019-06-24T00:51:45 < rajkosto> this is 7735 https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-06-23_23-51-40_grCKgxvgf.jpg
2019-06-24T00:56:24 < englishman> cool
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2019-06-24T03:23:58 < jadew> youtube is becoming a garbage dump
2019-06-24T03:25:14 < jadew> for any topic there seems to be 10000 losers that barely have the basics about the topic their talking about
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2019-06-24T03:25:38 < Cracki> do you propose bloodsports and deathmatches?
2019-06-24T03:25:58 < jadew> I'm not sure what the solution would be
2019-06-24T03:26:00 < Cracki> maybe compulsory IQ and knowledge testing
2019-06-24T03:26:10 < jadew> google wants them all, because money
2019-06-24T03:26:13 < jadew> but they're littering
2019-06-24T03:26:25 < Cracki> history is full of solutions
2019-06-24T03:26:37 < Cracki> google wants only the politically correct ones
2019-06-24T03:26:51 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFFLbXbfXLI
2019-06-24T03:38:32 < jadew> Cracki, life's too short to get riled up about politics
2019-06-24T03:38:40 < Cracki> ;)
2019-06-24T03:38:59 < Cracki> live's too long to do anything rash
2019-06-24T03:39:02 < Cracki> *life
2019-06-24T03:40:13 < Cracki> it takes all kinds. you have a family and a life to take care of, so that shifts your preferences one way.
2019-06-24T03:40:22 < jadew> it's good to understand what's going on, but unless you're going to be an actor in the political field, there's no point to put anything about it to heart
2019-06-24T03:40:23 < Cracki> some don't have that, so that shifts their preferences another way.
2019-06-24T03:41:08 < Cracki> there are less drastic actions than, say, political assassination
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2019-06-24T03:41:21 < Cracki> talking and convincing are perfectly fine actions
2019-06-24T03:42:05 < Cracki> or picking employees that aren't raging bolsheviks
2019-06-24T03:42:24 < Cracki> (enough companies don't do that)
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2019-06-24T04:30:55 < Thorn> btw does anyone ever use all 262K colors (or 64K, or even 256 different colors) on these displays? most UIs will simply use RGB+CMY+BW + maybe orange and a couple other colors
2019-06-24T04:31:26 < Thorn> so, why don't they support 8-bit (and 4-bit) color mode
2019-06-24T04:31:58 < Thorn> that would cut down SPI traffic by a factor of 2 (or 4) compared to the 16-bit mode
2019-06-24T04:33:25 < Cracki> camera pictures, live or "stock photo"? false color histograms/heatmaps/...?
2019-06-24T04:34:03 < Cracki> I remember I saw some color display that had palette mode
2019-06-24T04:34:34 < Cracki> (262k is RGB 6 bits per channel)
2019-06-24T04:35:02 < Cracki> (4k is rgb 4 bpc)
2019-06-24T04:36:10 < Cracki> those displays also tend to have drawing *commands* for fonts and shapes and fills, and maybe even memory for sprites/compositing
2019-06-24T04:37:52 < Cracki> the last oled display I touched was made in ~2006 and it was literal 1-bit monochrome. strangely, the data was transmitted as 4-bit per pixel bitmaps and it was always 0000 or 1111
2019-06-24T04:39:59 < rajkosto> Thorn, they support 16-color reduced refresh mode
2019-06-24T04:40:18 < rajkosto> Cracki, 1-bit OLED does 8-bit columns (single pixels are not addressable) now
2019-06-24T04:40:37 < Cracki> yeah, the smart thing to do
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2019-06-24T04:59:14 < Cracki> there was that audio recorder some people took apart. it had a monochrome lcd and stored all kinds of bitmaps in flash. that was fun to dissect.
2019-06-24T04:59:44 < Cracki> just staring at bits and trying stride sizes
2019-06-24T05:05:18 < mawk> jadew: if you acknowledge politics have even a little effect on your life, getting interested into it is a good thing
2019-06-24T05:05:44 < mawk> you want to know and act on what your civic life will become
2019-06-24T05:24:14 < Cracki> remember he's not living in paris or berlin, or anywhere, ahem, LEFT of the iron curtain. he is and will be far away from the worst of it.
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2019-06-24T08:28:42 < ds2> if you have to do gradients....
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2019-06-24T09:25:43 < jadew``> https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/10/africa/white-throated-rail-extinction-scli-intl-scn/index.html
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2019-06-24T09:29:55 < Cracki> zombie birds, I know that movie
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2019-06-24T10:02:15 < jadew> any good movies lately?
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2019-06-24T11:18:19 < Cracki> uh...
2019-06-24T11:18:50 < Cracki> from january, "glass"
2019-06-24T11:19:03 < Cracki> bruce willis
2019-06-24T11:19:15 < Cracki> he has a few other nice movies
2019-06-24T11:20:15 < Cracki> I think keanu reeves has a new john wick movie
2019-06-24T11:24:57 < jadew> Cracki, I'll check them out, thanks
2019-06-24T11:26:04 < Cracki> death wish is nice :> even spawned a meme or two
2019-06-24T11:26:57 < jadew> I'll check it out, thanks
2019-06-24T11:27:12 < jly> i need to find the anime club
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2019-06-24T13:07:29 < jadew> DHL sucks ass
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2019-06-24T13:08:18 < jadew> 1 week delay, I provided all the papers, I paid the taxes and all that crap and my package still isn't moving
2019-06-24T13:08:38 < jadew> I paid the customs shit last week
2019-06-24T13:08:56 < jadew> took them fucking days to get back to me to tell me how much I have to pay, even tho I could have done the math myself
2019-06-24T13:09:02 < jadew> total * .2
2019-06-24T13:10:12 < jadew> and of course, now that I've paid, nothing.
2019-06-24T13:10:54 < jadew> I could have done this myself in one fucking hour
2019-06-24T13:10:57 < jadew> the entire thing
2019-06-24T13:14:23 < jadew> I guess I'll have to try different couriers
2019-06-24T13:14:39 < jadew> DHL is getting from bad to worse with every delivery
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2019-06-24T13:16:30 < karlp> how do you even control what the shipper uses?
2019-06-24T13:16:44 < jadew> you usually get to choose
2019-06-24T13:17:16 < jadew> DHL is right there, after free shipping
2019-06-24T13:18:34 < jadew> this inactivity pisses me off so bad
2019-06-24T13:20:02 < jadew> it only means one thing: somewhere along the line, there's an incompetent manager or two
2019-06-24T13:22:25 < jadew> this is the update you get in the delivery log when they don't do shit: "Clearance event"
2019-06-24T13:23:07 < jadew> that literally means "we didn't even glance over your package, you are shit to us."
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2019-06-24T15:16:11 < aandrew> jadew: you've been complaining about this package for a while.. let's hope it isn't going to expire
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2019-06-24T15:29:34 < aandrew> it wasn't an imported asian bride was it?
2019-06-24T15:33:45 < Cracki> jadew, dhl or dhl express?
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2019-06-24T16:01:03 < englishman> new shitberreypi with usb3 and 4gb ram
2019-06-24T16:01:13 < englishman> why would lunix need 4gb ram
2019-06-24T16:06:57 < zyp> maybe to actually run shit on it?
2019-06-24T16:07:50 < zyp> the new one actually seems like a decent improvement, shit finally got a builtin ethernet MAC instead of relying on an usb-ethernet chip
2019-06-24T16:07:58 < zyp> and also got more than one usb controller
2019-06-24T16:08:07 < mawk> but mini hdmi
2019-06-24T16:08:14 < mawk> nobody uses that there's usb C in 2019
2019-06-24T16:09:08 < zyp> I've never hooked up a screen to a rpi
2019-06-24T16:09:21 < zyp> so I'm pretty indifferent to what kind of monitor connector it has :p
2019-06-24T16:28:12 < englishman> python scripts and influxdb taking 4gb ram, such innovation
2019-06-24T16:28:23 < englishman> what is fenugrec up to
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2019-06-24T16:44:25 < Thorn> >24VAC contactors
2019-06-24T16:44:39 < Thorn> why.jpg
2019-06-24T16:45:22 < Thorn> 24VDC contqctors can be connected to a PLC directly. if you use an intermediate relayyou may as weli use 220VAC contactors. what is the use case for 24VAC
2019-06-24T16:54:32 < Cracki> where does this occur
2019-06-24T16:54:43 < karlp> Thorn: for 24vac loads, duh.
2019-06-24T16:54:58 < Thorn> I mean coil voltage
2019-06-24T16:55:09 < englishman> low voltage ac is v common
2019-06-24T16:55:09 < Thorn> load is 230VAC in each casae
2019-06-24T16:55:41 < Thorn> how do you interface 24vac to a plc?
2019-06-24T16:55:54 < englishman> using a contactor?
2019-06-24T16:56:17 < Thorn> contactor for a contactor?
2019-06-24T16:56:28  * karlp is lost.
2019-06-24T16:56:45 < karlp> it's industrial, there's a fucking soup of options for every combination you didn't even think could be made.
2019-06-24T16:56:59 < karlp> why are you picking on 24vac?
2019-06-24T16:57:29 < Thorn> I was looking for 24VDC contactors but they seem to be rare
2019-06-24T16:57:38 < Thorn> 24VAC is far more common
2019-06-24T17:00:40 < specing> wut
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2019-06-24T17:28:40 < qyx> idk but I would say 24VAC coil would work at 24VDC
2019-06-24T17:35:30 < Thorn> that would be great
2019-06-24T17:40:37 < Cracki> so basically it's a relay for high current?
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2019-06-24T17:52:47 < mawk> why qyx ? isn't it more prone to continued arcing ?
2019-06-24T17:52:54 < mawk> while AC isn't
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2019-06-24T17:54:59 < Thorn> I kinda hope there isn't going to be any arcing in a coil whether it's AC or DC lol
2019-06-24T17:55:23 < mawk> ah it's for the coil
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2019-06-24T18:42:38 < dongs> sup dongs
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2019-06-24T19:13:54 < jadew> Cracki, DHL express
2019-06-24T19:14:39 < jadew> aandrew, no, but the chinese fab is already writing me to "send the papers" because they're getting warnings that the package might get destroyed and they'll have to foot the bill
2019-06-24T19:15:11 < jadew> of course that's not going to be the case, but it's another indicator that something's wrong
2019-06-24T19:17:29 < jadew> everything seems to move so freaking slow... it's infurating
2019-06-24T19:18:41 < aandrew> that is frustrating for sure
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2019-06-24T19:33:18 < dongs> https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/158636/open-propeller-project-soft-propeller-40p14 when opensores fags run out of shit to argue about, they argue about "altium" being unsuitable for a hardware project
2019-06-24T19:33:30 < dongs> yeah beacuse like, i'd rather bash my head into a brick wall than use kikecad
2019-06-24T19:33:53 < dongs> I have to question the choice of Altium Designer. AD is a closed source, expensive, Windows only program. Open sourcing AD files seems kind of pointless. Certainly not useful to non Windows users.
2019-06-24T19:34:07 < dongs> dat noisy 0.1%
2019-06-24T19:35:14 < jadew> opensource folks feel entitled to stuff
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2019-06-24T19:37:45 < jadew> why be content that it's open and find someone to maybe copy it over to kicad or whatever, when you can bitch about it?
2019-06-24T19:38:38 < Thorn> why don't they fight against Synopsys & Mentor Graphics lol
2019-06-24T19:38:48 < Thorn> $1M+/year licenses
2019-06-24T19:38:58 < dongs> yeah, or against those closed sores FPGA tool vendors
2019-06-24T19:38:59 < jadew> really? jeez...
2019-06-24T19:39:18 < dongs> i mean that fucking topic is literally using some FPGA as its main chip
2019-06-24T19:39:26 < dongs> and you have to build the warez for that using closed sores tools
2019-06-24T19:39:28 < dongs> THE FUCKING HORROR
2019-06-24T19:39:38 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-06-24T19:39:39 < dongs> and they're bitching that its made in altium
2019-06-24T19:43:00 < jadew> today's update: "Clearance event"
2019-06-24T19:43:06 < jadew> thank you DHL
2019-06-24T19:47:57 < Thorn> and virtually no alternative toot. Huawei loses the privilege of using american software -> no more ASIC design for Huawei
2019-06-24T19:48:01 < Thorn> -t
2019-06-24T19:54:58 < karlp> no, just no more updates :)
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2019-06-24T20:06:44 < dongs> trolling huawei is fucking retarded
2019-06-24T20:06:55 < dongs> but i cant wait for them to make something better than assdroid
2019-06-24T20:13:18 < jadew> you back them into a corner, that's exactly what's going to happen
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2019-06-24T20:47:56 < jadew> you know how asians are supposed to be super smart compared to everyone else?
2019-06-24T20:48:30 < jadew> most chinese products contradict that
2019-06-24T20:49:03 < aandrew> hahahahaha
2019-06-24T20:49:15 < Steffanx> knowing how to do calculus et all doesnt make you a good product designer
2019-06-24T20:50:05 < Steffanx> also cheap.
2019-06-24T20:51:00 < Steffanx> Perhaps they are not smart, but you are dumb enough to buy their crap, jadew
2019-06-24T20:51:44 < jadew> it's also possible that we're too stupid to realize that making dirt cheap stuff, that doesn't work properly, but which undercuts everyone is the real genius move and we're fighting a losing battle
2019-06-24T20:52:33 < jadew> their culture is also very different
2019-06-24T20:52:45 < jadew> look at aliexpress, they hid the freaking total amount
2019-06-24T20:52:50 < BrainDamage> or maybe realize that having those sort of competitions is childish and pointless
2019-06-24T20:53:20 < jadew> BrainDamage, what do you mean?
2019-06-24T20:53:43 < BrainDamage> "the smarter population"
2019-06-24T20:53:45 < jadew> who gets to sell their stuff is not the sort of competition you opt in for
2019-06-24T20:53:50 < jadew> ah
2019-06-24T20:54:35 < BrainDamage> about transaction, try to eat in north america
2019-06-24T20:54:57 < BrainDamage> between tipping, and the fact the prices don't include VAT, you never fucking know how much is the price
2019-06-24T20:56:25 < jadew> because the tip is part of the bill?
2019-06-24T20:57:10 < BrainDamage> yes, because they pay their servers a misery, so they offload their wages to the clients as form of tip
2019-06-24T20:57:31 < BrainDamage> so tipping becomes socially mandatory
2019-06-24T20:57:48 < Steffanx> luckely im not a social person :d
2019-06-24T20:58:46 < jadew> yeah, that's super strange
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2019-06-24T21:48:18 < upgrdman> yay, the enw dingleberry pi supports 4k60 and usb3. now i have legit motivation to port my software to opengl es
2019-06-24T21:51:18 < Steffanx> hehe
2019-06-24T21:51:28 < Steffanx> and you have 4GB of ram to waste.
2019-06-24T21:54:46 < Thorn> T - 8 h 30 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxH4CAlhtiQ
2019-06-24T21:57:08 < Steffanx> ty
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2019-06-24T22:10:17 < specing> Thorn: thats early...
2019-06-24T22:10:24 < specing> also thats 5 AM for me :/
2019-06-24T22:10:33 < Steffanx> Does specing have to go to work or school?
2019-06-24T22:10:39 < specing> no
2019-06-24T22:10:51 < Steffanx> then i dont see the issue :P
2019-06-24T22:10:59 < specing> I could wake up really early
2019-06-24T22:11:03 < Steffanx> specing doesnt school or work at all?
2019-06-24T22:11:05 < specing> thats a good alternative
2019-06-24T22:11:15 < specing> Steffanx: I dont have school tomorrow
2019-06-24T22:11:45 < Steffanx> Are you doing your phd in physics yet?
2019-06-24T22:12:19 < Steffanx> (i recall you doing physics ages ago)
2019-06-24T22:12:59 < specing> No, and I wasnt doing physics
2019-06-24T22:13:01 < specing> Im doing math
2019-06-24T22:13:03 < Steffanx> ah math
2019-06-24T22:13:23 < Steffanx> So can we call you Dr. Specing yet?
2019-06-24T22:13:25 < Steffanx> or soon
2019-06-24T22:15:31 < mawk> doctor ès mathematica
2019-06-24T22:15:48 < specing> Steffanx: it'll take many more years for that
2019-06-24T22:16:05 < specing> and Im more likely to do a phd in EE or CS than math
2019-06-24T22:16:09 < mawk> what are your favorite maths specing ?
2019-06-24T22:16:20 < specing> I like them all mawk 
2019-06-24T22:16:33 < Steffanx> mawh is very mathy too.
2019-06-24T22:16:36 < mawk> lies :(
2019-06-24T22:16:36 < Steffanx> *mawk
2019-06-24T22:16:39 < specing> well, the only one I didn't really like was probability
2019-06-24T22:16:48 < mawk> ah
2019-06-24T22:16:57 < specing> but that was probably due to it being a whole-year (2 semester) course
2019-06-24T22:17:06 < specing> that got stretched to no end
2019-06-24T22:19:06 < specing> so when it got to the exam in june, I didn't really remember any more what we were doing in october
2019-06-24T22:28:20 < Thorn> nobody sleep
2019-06-24T22:29:10 < Steffanx> Sorry Thorn. I have to disappoint you.
2019-06-24T22:29:59 < zyp> specing, uh, the point of going to school is to learn
2019-06-24T22:30:14 < zyp> if you've forgot what you've learned by exam time, you haven't really learned it in the first place
2019-06-24T22:30:53 < Thorn> not me
2019-06-24T22:30:58 < Thorn> you will disappoint Elon
2019-06-24T22:31:07 < Thorn> and you don't want to disappoint Elon
2019-06-24T22:32:07 < specing> zyp: try remembering 8 month old material on an exam while you had a million other things going through your head in that period
2019-06-24T22:32:12 < mawk> even after learning deep to the heart you must relearn, at least in maths
2019-06-24T22:32:19 < mawk> all the little properties and proofs and stuff
2019-06-24T22:32:36 < mawk> you need to reactivate the memory
2019-06-24T22:34:32 < Steffanx> i hoped elon deleted his twatter, but he did not..
2019-06-24T22:36:00 < zyp> specing, if you can't remember shit eight months down the road, how are you gonna remember it when you actually need it a couple of years later?
2019-06-24T22:36:25 < zyp> and if you're gonna argue you won't need it later, why are you studying it in the first place?
2019-06-24T22:37:08 < zyp> I'll repeat myself, the point of going to school is to learn, if you're not learning you're just wasting time and money and should do something useful instead
2019-06-24T22:38:12 < zyp> or if not useful, at least waste your time on something enjoyable :p
2019-06-24T22:39:10 < Steffanx> no way you enjoyed every course you had to do zyp
2019-06-24T22:39:29 < specing> zyp: the point of studying is not remembering everything in 100% detail
2019-06-24T22:39:45 < specing> the point of studying is to understand and to know where to look in the future
2019-06-24T22:41:23 < zyp> yes, and the point of the exam is to show that you've learned so
2019-06-24T22:43:37 < specing> the point of the exam is to show that you understand
2019-06-24T22:43:46 < zyp> yeah?
2019-06-24T22:43:47 < specing> we've had a lot of exams where you could bring books and notes
2019-06-24T22:43:55 < specing> (spoiler: they didn't help)
2019-06-24T22:48:22 < upgrdman> in high school i had a teacher that loved multiple choice tests, but he made them harder than normal tests. like not just a/b/c/d, but a/b/c/d/ab/ac/ad/abc/abcd/... 
2019-06-24T22:48:37 < Steffanx> Im not a bad learner imho, but im a good unlearner sadly. I have to update often.
2019-06-24T22:48:46 < upgrdman> i think only one student ever got an A on his multiple choice tests
2019-06-24T22:49:00 < Steffanx> multiple choice sucks anyway imho
2019-06-24T22:50:23 < Steffanx> but then usually the high school courses with multiple choice tests were the most boring ones.
2019-06-24T22:50:56 < specing> they do suck, yeah
2019-06-24T22:51:29 < Steffanx> Especially history, geography and stuff. "When did the sister of the brother of the nephew of peter III die?"
2019-06-24T22:51:36 < jadew> multiple choice tests suck because you don't know how stupid the person who wrote them is
2019-06-24T22:51:50 < jadew> and you also don't know how stupid they think you are
2019-06-24T22:52:28 < jadew> so any ambiguities get amplified the more you try to dig into the background of the question
2019-06-24T22:53:06 < Steffanx> multiple choice tests suck because you don't know how stupid the person who wrote them is > you do, because usually the teacher wrote them.
2019-06-24T22:53:32 < Steffanx> and you do know what he thinks about you because... he/she is your teacher
2019-06-24T22:53:38 < jadew> when your teacher writes them, yeah
2019-06-24T22:53:49 < Steffanx> that's how it usually works in dutchland
2019-06-24T22:54:31 < Steffanx> Except for final exams etc. those are written by some committee
2019-06-24T22:55:40 < zyp> I remember I had a multiple choice programming exam once, apparently one of the questions I were the only one who got correct
2019-06-24T22:55:44 < Steffanx> Final exams = the exam you have to do in dutchland get gratuated from high school.
2019-06-24T22:55:51 < Steffanx> graduated *
2019-06-24T22:56:32 < Steffanx> You were the only one doing the test zyp?
2019-06-24T22:56:44 < zyp> discussed the question with the prof afterwards, apparently he ended up dropping it from scoring because it were «unreasonably hard»
2019-06-24T22:56:46 < jadew> not only that, but he helped write the test
2019-06-24T22:56:47 < zyp> no
2019-06-24T22:57:34 < jadew> I went to a programming contest once where I was the only one to solve both problems
2019-06-24T22:57:45 < jadew> the other contestants couldn't even solve one
2019-06-24T22:57:54 < zyp> Steffanx, but the question probably went beyond curriculum
2019-06-24T22:57:58 < Steffanx> ah
2019-06-24T22:58:10 < sync> haha, zyp, that reminds me of one of my EE exams
2019-06-24T22:58:36 < sync> "does voltage at point X in the circuit rise when R1 is lowered" my answer was "no"
2019-06-24T22:59:19 < sync> and the teacher had to give me full points because he did not specify that we had to prove our answers
2019-06-24T22:59:34 < zyp> IIRC the question was about a code snippet like void foo() { int a; std::cout << a << std::endl; } or some shit, i.e. printing uninitialized variables
2019-06-24T22:59:44 < Steffanx> isnt that kinda implicit sync? No way i would get away with that.
2019-06-24T23:00:18 < zyp> correct answer was something like «The program will compile and execute correctly.»
2019-06-24T23:00:27 < jadew> lol
2019-06-24T23:00:46 < Steffanx> Who defined what is correctly?
2019-06-24T23:00:56 < zyp> as in not segfaulting or similar
2019-06-24T23:01:10 < jadew> it's more of a philosophical question than anything
2019-06-24T23:01:13 < sync> well, yes Steffanx
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2019-06-24T23:01:26 < zyp> call it «The program will compile and execute without error.»
2019-06-24T23:01:35 < jadew> zyp, one could argue that a segfault is also correct behaviour
2019-06-24T23:01:44 < rajkosto> its not
2019-06-24T23:01:51 < sync> but I knew that I would pass even without those points so I went for it
2019-06-24T23:01:55 < rajkosto> its just printing a variable from the stack
2019-06-24T23:01:59 < zyp> jadew, I don't remember the exact wording
2019-06-24T23:02:41 < zyp> rajkosto, exactly, it's just printing some uninitialized value, i.e. garbage, but it won't crash and it won't fail to compile
2019-06-24T23:02:58 < zyp> and apparently nobody else came to that conclusion
2019-06-24T23:04:00 < zyp> which is reasonable enough, the curriculum was really about defined behavior, not what would happen if you invoked undefined behavior :p
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2019-06-24T23:04:55 < zyp> sync, I once got full points on a task by not doing what it told to
2019-06-24T23:05:32 < Thorn> isn't accessing an uninitialized variable UB? if so it is legal for the program to crash
2019-06-24T23:05:54 < zyp> for some reason, in programming 101, there were a task on using word/openoffice, make a document template that does TOC and references and includes and some shit
2019-06-24T23:05:58 < jadew> I once got a 3 (out of 10), because instead of using the formula my teacher wanted me to use I found another one
2019-06-24T23:06:03 < jadew> sort of like a shortcut
2019-06-24T23:06:12 < jadew> that worked for all cases
2019-06-24T23:06:20 < zyp> and the task was to be done in both ms word and openoffice to compare features between the two
2019-06-24T23:06:39 < jadew> thing is I wrote the answer and then he asked me how I did it
2019-06-24T23:06:50 < jadew> and when I told him how, he said it's wrong...
2019-06-24T23:06:55 < zyp> I concluded it was total bullshit, so I instead handed in a latex template doing all the things the task asked for
2019-06-24T23:07:04 < zyp> I figured I didn't need the points anyway
2019-06-24T23:07:22 < zyp> but the prof symphatized and gave me full points after all :p
2019-06-24T23:07:29 < sync> :D
2019-06-24T23:07:44 < jadew> that's because he figured you're not like the others
2019-06-24T23:08:06 < jadew> there's usually a level above which you can do whatever
2019-06-24T23:08:14 < sync> yes, I had that happen too jadew
2019-06-24T23:08:34 < sync> measuring non electric units was the course
2019-06-24T23:08:36 < zyp> yeah
2019-06-24T23:08:54 < zyp> I also got out of another assignment by the same prof
2019-06-24T23:08:57 < zyp> last assignment
2019-06-24T23:09:07 < sync> and I did some kind of transform in a way we learned about in some advanced course but the prof said it's wrong
2019-06-24T23:09:15 < zyp> I literally asked him «do I need to do this assignment to get an A on the course?»
2019-06-24T23:09:16 < sync> even though I proved that my results were correct
2019-06-24T23:09:44 < zyp> «uh, well, just do the first task to show me you know recursion, and the A is yours»
2019-06-24T23:10:22 < jadew> sync, yep, same with me
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2019-06-24T23:12:48 < jadew> it takes a good teacher to recognize an opportunity and care about it, when a kid has an argument on the subject
2019-06-24T23:13:38 < jadew> even if the kid is wrong, if he's invested in it, that's a huge opportunity to engage them in whatever you're teaching
2019-06-24T23:14:46 < jadew> shutting their ideas down is the worst
2019-06-24T23:15:13 < zyp> reminds me of middle school math
2019-06-24T23:15:39 < zyp> we hadn't learned trig yet, but I studied it on my own
2019-06-24T23:15:52 < zyp> and ended up using it to solve a task on a test
2019-06-24T23:16:17 < zyp> «well, yeah, the answer is correct, but you were supposed to solve it without trig»
2019-06-24T23:16:53 < jadew> correct answer should have been: "let's see why it works both ways!"
2019-06-24T23:17:03 < jadew> "how are these solutions related?"
2019-06-24T23:17:47 < zyp> yeah, I didn't really see how to solve it without trig, and then we went over it 
2019-06-24T23:18:08 < zyp> apparently there were some other route through the formula for the area of a triangle
2019-06-24T23:18:19 < zyp> but the trig route were shorter once you know trig
2019-06-24T23:24:02 < mawk> hopefully not all teachers are like that
2019-06-24T23:24:11 < mawk> I wouldn't have ended up in maths studies otherwise
2019-06-24T23:24:18 < zyp> well, my math teacher was pretty good
2019-06-24T23:24:52 < mawk> in last year of highschool after a whole scolarity of getting high and having single digit grades I had the maths teacher place me in the front row on the first day of class
2019-06-24T23:24:54 < zyp> IIRC she went and got me a math book from high school, since the middle school book were too easy
2019-06-24T23:25:03 < mawk> at that time I wanted to do chemistry, but he convinced me to go in maths
2019-06-24T23:25:42 < mawk> nice
2019-06-24T23:28:45 < mawk> anyway I wasted that opportunity and now I do programming, I count on you specing do not abandon
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2019-06-24T23:29:10 < specing> I already graduated mawk 
2019-06-24T23:29:14 < zyp> programming is the way to go
2019-06-24T23:29:15 < specing> I'm on masters now
2019-06-24T23:29:28 < mawk> yes I mean keep in maths
2019-06-24T23:29:32 < mawk> you said you wanted to do a CS thesis
2019-06-24T23:32:27 < specing> I want to study EE
2019-06-24T23:35:13 < Steffanx> isnt there some pure math study?
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2019-06-24T23:36:24 < specing> there is. I'm not on it
2019-06-24T23:43:01 < mawk> specing will invent the new transistor
2019-06-24T23:43:24 < mawk> cite ##stm32 in your revolutionizing paper
2019-06-24T23:43:31 < Steffanx> will you reinvent the door table mawk?
2019-06-24T23:43:54 < mawk> yes I think a fifth foot will be disruptive
2019-06-24T23:44:16 < mawk> 0
2019-06-24T23:44:36 < Steffanx> (fyi just a poor reference to some dutch beer commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olXDWoTALe8)
2019-06-24T23:44:57 < mawk> that's my father's favorite beer
2019-06-24T23:45:21 < mawk> when he liked drinking a bit too much there would be like 50 heinekens all around the house
2019-06-24T23:45:26 < Steffanx> heh
2019-06-24T23:45:47 < Steffanx> many people consider it to be piss.
2019-06-24T23:46:04 < mawk> yeah I guess
2019-06-24T23:46:13 < mawk> but he started with that as a teenager he must have some memories with it
2019-06-24T23:48:47 < specing> the neural effect transistor
2019-06-24T23:48:54 < specing> NET
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--- Day changed Tue Jun 25 2019
2019-06-25T00:00:28 < aandrew> interesting
2019-06-25T00:00:31 < aandrew> bringing up a PoE board
2019-06-25T00:00:36 < aandrew> without the PoE module it came up fine
2019-06-25T00:00:56 < aandrew> add PoE and the PLL in teh STM32 doesn't lock when the debugger is connected. With the debugger disconnected it worked fine
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2019-06-25T00:24:27 < Ultrasauce> ground loop?
2019-06-25T00:25:10 < zyp> you can debug it and you see the RCC flags saying PLL is pending?
2019-06-25T00:25:41 < zyp> if so, I would guess the power lines are too noisy, interfering with the PLL
2019-06-25T00:28:20 < aandrew> zyp: yeah, it's timing out trying to lock
2019-06-25T00:28:27 < aandrew> I'm going to try a different injector
2019-06-25T00:29:20 < zyp> have you tried scoping the power rails?
2019-06-25T00:29:35 < aandrew> no I've just discovered this
2019-06-25T00:30:04 < zyp> you should have plenty of filtering between the PoE input and the VDD rail, so noisy injectors shouldn't matter
2019-06-25T00:30:14 < aandrew> agreed
2019-06-25T00:30:27 < aandrew> it may be grounding but it's unlikely
2019-06-25T00:30:31 < zyp> i.e. if the injector does matter, the problem is still your design, not the injector
2019-06-25T00:30:41 < zyp> isn't it galvanically isolated?
2019-06-25T00:30:49 < aandrew> once it's running I can physically attach the debugger and debug just fine
2019-06-25T00:30:51 < aandrew> it's just startup
2019-06-25T00:30:54 < aandrew> zyp: the injector is yes
2019-06-25T00:31:04 < zyp> not your device?
2019-06-25T00:31:19 < aandrew> my device is not when the debugger is attached
2019-06-25T00:31:23 < zyp> from what I've seen, PoE devices generally call for a flyback reg on the input
2019-06-25T00:31:49 < zyp> so power ground should be galvanically isolated from your device ground
2019-06-25T00:32:23 < zyp> oh, right
2019-06-25T00:32:37 < zyp> it works without PoE or without debugger, but not with both together
2019-06-25T00:32:47 < aandrew> correct
2019-06-25T00:32:47 < zyp> funky
2019-06-25T00:33:31 < zyp> that's not your debugger doing something weird with the signals when it's connected?
2019-06-25T00:34:04 < zyp> try only grounding it though the debugger connector instead of hooking up the entire debug interface
2019-06-25T00:34:15 < zyp> to test the ground loop theory
2019-06-25T00:34:52 < aandrew> tried a differnet poe injector and same issue (different mfg and probably close to a decade between mfg of one ot the next)
2019-06-25T00:35:14 < aandrew> the only connection between the PC and the DUT is the 10 pin debug connector
2019-06-25T00:43:05 < zyp> yeah, trying ground only would be a reasonable next step
2019-06-25T00:43:35 < zyp> if the problem goes away with that, it might be some silly power/reset timing bullshit, when you have the debugger hanging on the reset line
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2019-06-25T00:44:51 < aandrew> oh I see what you mean now; JUST ground the board to the dbeugger with the SWDCK/SWDIO/RESET lines disconnected
2019-06-25T00:48:08 < zyp> yes
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2019-06-25T00:48:45 < zyp> always a good start to rule out potential issues it couldn't be before going too deep on an unconfirmed theory
2019-06-25T00:52:11 < aandrew> yep
2019-06-25T00:52:34 < aandrew> ground did nothing but without the debugger trying to do anything (hooked up but idle) I noticed it took a long damn time to make the led come on
2019-06-25T00:52:39 < aandrew> might be a weird reset pin issue
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2019-06-25T01:44:27 < kakimir> hello nightcrew
2019-06-25T01:44:39 < kakimir> motorcycling intensifies
2019-06-25T01:45:00 < kakimir> ordered combined lambda controller / gauge
2019-06-25T01:45:06 < kakimir> O2 sensing
2019-06-25T01:45:10 < aandrew> hm, why would ethernet fail to reset (wait for SR bit to clear) on a board and work fine on a devkit
2019-06-25T01:45:57 < kakimir> my last job called
2019-06-25T01:46:13 < kakimir> factory has made some wild last minute changes and nothing works
2019-06-25T01:46:27 < kakimir> :D  oh boy
2019-06-25T01:46:55 < kakimir> going to see it myself they have sample
2019-06-25T01:47:10 < kakimir> have a play with it
2019-06-25T01:48:20 < kakimir> it should have been cosmetical revision without touching functionalities
2019-06-25T01:52:04 < aandrew> kakimir: time for consulting rates
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2019-06-25T02:28:52 < kakimir> anyone have m6 thread k-type sensors those chinese ones?
2019-06-25T02:29:26 < rajkosto> yo makers how do you fix inside cracks in acrylic
2019-06-25T02:31:00 < kakimir> do you mean cracks in acrylic?
2019-06-25T02:31:24 < kakimir> pics?
2019-06-25T02:33:19 < rajkosto> this one's only cosmetic https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-06-25_01-32-38_yNRQnlgrP.png  but this one leaks through the screw hole https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-06-25_01-32-49_H2T9ymE7H.png
2019-06-25T02:42:53 < kakimir> thread sealant
2019-06-25T02:43:21 < rajkosto> but i dont want the screws to be forever sealed
2019-06-25T02:43:51 < rajkosto> also would like the cosmetic one to not look like a crack anymore
2019-06-25T02:44:52 < kakimir> tought luck
2019-06-25T02:45:32 < kakimir> acrylic cracks are notorious
2019-06-25T02:46:01 < kakimir> for being pain in ass
2019-06-25T02:46:07 < rajkosto> isnt there acrylic sealant that would permeate it with capilarry action
2019-06-25T02:46:15 < rajkosto> and blend the acrylic back together
2019-06-25T02:46:15 < kakimir> is there?
2019-06-25T02:47:30 < kakimir> "acrylic sealant" gives some construction sealing materials on google
2019-06-25T02:48:05 < kakimir> for tiles or something
2019-06-25T02:48:31 < rajkosto> https://www.amazon.com/Weld-Acrylic-Adhesive-Applicator-Bottle/dp/B0096TWKCW
2019-06-25T02:50:54 < rajkosto> wish i could get that stuff its apparently amazing
2019-06-25T02:51:59 < kakimir> please report results
2019-06-25T02:54:55 < kakimir> thread sealant =! thread lock
2019-06-25T02:55:11 < kakimir> sealant seals
2019-06-25T02:55:20 < kakimir> locking solution locks
2019-06-25T02:55:38 < kakimir> freenodes new webchat is nice
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2019-06-25T04:01:08 < aandrew> ah well that'll do it. PHY's not outputting the 50MHz RMII clock
2019-06-25T04:20:02 < Thorn> soyuz landing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg
2019-06-25T04:20:15 < Thorn> FH launch delayed 3 hrs
2019-06-25T04:30:27 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boBK7IQ@73.109.62.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-06-25T05:05:49 < dongs> hey thorn
2019-06-25T05:05:55 < dongs> formosat gonna be videod?
2019-06-25T05:05:56 < dongs> launch
2019-06-25T05:06:00 < dongs> i think that was suppsoed to be today
2019-06-25T05:06:28 < dongs> https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3731443
2019-06-25T05:06:48 < dongs> oh, thats the one
2019-06-25T05:06:51 < dongs> got a link to jewtubn for that one?
2019-06-25T05:07:23 < dongs> https://youtu.be/WxH4CAlhtiQ is that it? STP-2 mission
2019-06-25T05:08:05 < Thorn> dongs: yes
2019-06-25T05:08:54 < Thorn> looks like there is a fault on the soyuz but the NASA commentator cunt is talking over the radio traffic
2019-06-25T05:09:11 < dongs> RIP
2019-06-25T05:13:08 < dongs> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/487121479130152970/592899592178368532/IMG_20190624_204626.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/487121479130152970/592899639112630272/IMG_20190624_204706.jpg cc: Thorn 
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2019-06-25T05:18:06 < dongs> "propulsion pumps"
2019-06-25T05:18:08 < dongs> problem
2019-06-25T05:23:30 < Thorn> there are no pumps
2019-06-25T05:23:38 < Thorn> it's a fuel manifold
2019-06-25T05:24:39 < dongs> fucked if i know, i didnt hear
2019-06-25T05:35:35 < dongs> whats in the morse
2019-06-25T05:36:38 < Thorn> locator beacon
2019-06-25T05:36:44 < dongs> oh jsut station ID?
2019-06-25T05:36:47 < dongs> cuz it sounds same anyway
2019-06-25T05:37:07 < dongs> like same 3 letters
2019-06-25T05:38:23 < Thorn> .- -. A
2019-06-25T05:38:26 < Thorn> AN
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2019-06-25T06:15:21 < Ultrasauce> man feeling gravity for the first time in months must suck a lot
2019-06-25T06:17:42 < rajkosto>  i read that as "feeling gravy"
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2019-06-25T06:29:24 < dongs> shit
2019-06-25T06:29:26 < dongs> delayed again/
2019-06-25T06:29:30 < dongs> live in 3 hours
2019-06-25T06:29:32 < dongs> teh chinsat
2019-06-25T06:30:39 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1143321392785477633
2019-06-25T06:31:07 < dongs> what timezone is that garbag in
2019-06-25T06:31:11 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2019-06-25T06:31:12 < dongs> who the fuck acutally uses twatter seriosuly
2019-06-25T06:31:22 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxH4CAlhtiQ < live in 2 hours
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2019-06-25T06:32:23 < Ultrasauce> (3 hours)
2019-06-25T06:34:17 < dongs> 2.30 edt isnt that now
2019-06-25T06:34:27 < dongs> ah no
2019-06-25T06:34:40 < dongs> thats like 3 hours from now
2019-06-25T06:35:02 < Cracki> damn those muricans and their time zones. they think they're alone in the world.
2019-06-25T06:36:13 < mawk> I'm trying to buy a $.10 court document from the US department of justice, they refuse all my credit cards
2019-06-25T06:36:22 < dongs> use paypal
2019-06-25T06:36:24 < mawk> the website looks straight out of 1990
2019-06-25T06:37:03 < mawk> if only they would take paypal: https://pix.watch/s3F85e/ipG4fL.png
2019-06-25T06:37:20 < mawk> they don't even ask for CVV2 code, isn't it a thing in the us ?
2019-06-25T06:37:54 < dongs> call your cc issuer and see whyt its getting declined
2019-06-25T06:37:58 < dongs> the 1800 number on the back of the shit
2019-06-25T06:38:16 < dongs> usually they're pretty strict on billing address for u.s. cards
2019-06-25T06:38:22 < dongs> so if you mistyped that even by a letter they'll decline
2019-06-25T06:38:29 < dongs> but the bank will be able to tell you this when you call
2019-06-25T06:45:18 < mawk> I see
2019-06-25T06:45:24 < mawk> thanks
2019-06-25T06:55:41 < englishman> mawk, have you heard of recap the free pacer archive
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2019-06-25T08:53:46 < dongs> uh i should have no problem responding to 30-60uS pulses with exti at 72mhz right?
2019-06-25T08:54:11 < dongs> thats like ~2000 cpu cycles
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2019-06-25T09:05:24 < Cracki> it's alive!
2019-06-25T09:05:31 < Cracki> muzak stage
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2019-06-25T09:13:38 < dongs> 5 million bounds FUCKING MURICAN UNITS
2019-06-25T09:13:44 < dongs> er pounds
2019-06-25T09:15:26 < Cracki> seventeen foot
2019-06-25T09:15:27 < dongs> 17 foot. cunt
2019-06-25T09:15:28 < dongs> fuck off
2019-06-25T09:15:29 < dongs> god damn
2019-06-25T09:15:33 < dongs> i have no idea how big that is
2019-06-25T09:15:42 < Ultrasauce> you cant say kilonewton in polite company
2019-06-25T09:15:43 < Cracki> half a basketball field
2019-06-25T09:16:09 < emeb_mac> 14min to spacex
2019-06-25T09:16:10 < Cracki> ah, finally an engineer
2019-06-25T09:16:50 < Ultrasauce> both of the other hosts are also engineers
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2019-06-25T09:17:38 < emeb_mac> first propellant is lox. second propellant is bagels
2019-06-25T09:18:06 < Ultrasauce> auxiliary cream cheese tanks are primed and ready
2019-06-25T09:18:12 < jly> One for Jonny
2019-06-25T09:18:33 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/O2Yyc7xy/dogbones.JPG
2019-06-25T09:19:45 < jly> Steffan would understand
2019-06-25T09:23:49 < emeb_mac> mmmm.... auxiliary cream cheese...
2019-06-25T09:25:29 < ds2> MMMmmmm lox soaked bagels
2019-06-25T09:25:43 < Cracki> remove bagel
2019-06-25T09:28:02 < jadew> I dreamt last night that the romanian leu was equal to one canadian dollar
2019-06-25T09:28:34 < jadew> must have been the most random dream ever
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2019-06-25T09:31:26 < Cracki> buy up all the muricans and enslave them
2019-06-25T09:31:47 < jly> That’s the dream
2019-06-25T09:32:01 < Cracki> westerners are used to slavery
2019-06-25T09:32:26 < jly> Is Donald trum signing a document with a massive marker a form of ASMR
2019-06-25T09:32:34 < jly> trump ffs
2019-06-25T09:33:18 < Cracki> [ASMR] Donald Trump Signature Practice
2019-06-25T09:33:18 < Cracki>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-QIHZun_k4
2019-06-25T09:33:58 < jly> Fuck off
2019-06-25T09:34:09 < jly> Not even going to see
2019-06-25T09:34:18 < Cracki> ripping the declaration of independence ASMR?
2019-06-25T09:34:27 < Cracki> by mysterymeat53
2019-06-25T09:34:34 < Cracki> or was that 56
2019-06-25T09:34:52 < Cracki> 53 was the percentage of homicides
2019-06-25T09:35:07 < jly> I’ll have to review the dog
2019-06-25T09:35:36 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2019-06-25T09:36:04 < Cracki> spacex needs to do a 6-booster rocket and try to land all seven at the same time
2019-06-25T09:36:21 < Cracki> shit, 6 and 7 are cursed numbers
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2019-06-25T09:38:30 < dongs> that fucking thermal cam
2019-06-25T09:38:32 < dongs> looks good
2019-06-25T09:38:54 < jadew> which one?
2019-06-25T09:39:01 < Cracki> upper right one
2019-06-25T09:39:08 < Cracki> the two bottom ones are visible light
2019-06-25T09:39:18 < Cracki> the booster looked really nice in IR
2019-06-25T09:39:45 < Cracki> they need to calibrate their IR cams. those stripes needn't be.
2019-06-25T09:39:54 < Ultrasauce> think the tracking freaked out at the end there heh
2019-06-25T09:41:33 < Cracki> :D
2019-06-25T09:41:59 < dongs> they missed it
2019-06-25T09:42:15 < Cracki> out of fuel again? didn't listen to their foreplay
2019-06-25T09:42:30 < dongs> no, i think it didnt come to right place
2019-06-25T09:42:38 < dongs> it was coming in already off center
2019-06-25T09:42:52 < Cracki> wonder what would be particularly "difficult" about this one
2019-06-25T09:43:03 < Ultrasauce> high velocity low fuel margins
2019-06-25T09:43:25 < emeb_mac> smoke on the water...
2019-06-25T09:43:58 < Cracki> wouldn't be surprised if they had an emergency protocol that, if they know it's not gonna make it, they divert the thing away from the drone ship
2019-06-25T09:44:00 < Ultrasauce> my guess is one engine out right at the end. it pitched over
2019-06-25T09:45:38 < emeb_mac> this is how they learn
2019-06-25T09:46:34 < Cracki> they had to ditch first stages before because the mission needed just that much fuel
2019-06-25T09:46:47 < emeb_mac> yup
2019-06-25T09:47:06 < emeb_mac> well, they got 2 good launches out of that one.
2019-06-25T09:47:28 < dongs> Cracki - yes, i thinkthats waht happened
2019-06-25T09:47:28 < emeb_mac> better than 100% of rockets prior to spacex.
2019-06-25T09:47:31 < Cracki> I wonder if they could balance fuel expenditure between all three so they all get to survive, or if they consciously sacrificed the center one to get the boosters out of it
2019-06-25T09:48:08 < emeb_mac> they mentioned dialing back the booster thrust.
2019-06-25T09:48:27 < emeb_mac> if they reallocated the loads to use less fuel in the center, probably possible.
2019-06-25T09:48:29 < Ultrasauce> they mentioned a deviation from the timeline around meco
2019-06-25T09:48:33 < emeb_mac> yep
2019-06-25T09:48:40 < Cracki> they always dial back thrust near maxq
2019-06-25T09:48:40 < emeb_mac> a bit late starting
2019-06-25T09:51:54 < Cracki> boo the first two sats weren't streamed
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2019-06-25T09:52:52 < emeb_mac> sshhh - sekrit
2019-06-25T09:53:20 < Cracki> quick calc, 80k viewers, ~1 Mbps, that's 80 gigabit/s out of yt's cdn
2019-06-25T09:56:33 -!- R2COM [~R2COM@ip68-3-184-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit []
2019-06-25T09:57:14 < emeb_mac> wonder what all those white chunks are flying past the fwd looking camera
2019-06-25T09:57:24 < Ultrasauce> ice
2019-06-25T09:57:45 < emeb_mac> wonder why it's moving so fast
2019-06-25T09:57:59 < Ultrasauce> dislodged by the deploy mechanism
2019-06-25T09:58:15 < Cracki> not much atmosphere to provide drag up there
2019-06-25T09:58:34 < Cracki> otoh, perspective
2019-06-25T09:58:46 < dongs> why is there trash still floating
2019-06-25T09:58:51 < dongs> or are those other sats
2019-06-25T09:59:35 < Cracki> space moths
2019-06-25T09:59:35 < Cracki> prolly trick of perspective
2019-06-25T09:59:46 < emeb_mac> aliens
2019-06-25T09:59:59 < Cracki> wait, that thing prolly still uses thrusters for small corrections
2019-06-25T10:00:10 < emeb_mac> <insert crazy hair dude meme here>
2019-06-25T10:00:18 < Cracki> those can give these snowflakes some acceleration
2019-06-25T10:00:49 < Cracki> every time that tin foil around the nozzle twitches
2019-06-25T10:01:07 < jadew> I fixed aliexpress: http://188.27.5.74/stuff/ali-fix.png
2019-06-25T10:01:19 < Cracki> gief
2019-06-25T10:01:27 < dongs> what does that do
2019-06-25T10:01:33 < Cracki> calcs total
2019-06-25T10:01:36 < jadew> dongs, they removed the total price
2019-06-25T10:01:52 < jadew> so I've added it back and it shows the total price per pcs too (factoring in shipping and possibly vat)
2019-06-25T10:02:29 < Ultrasauce> https://twitter.com/LaunchStuff/status/1143410787811282944
2019-06-25T10:03:47 < emeb_mac> space ninjas
2019-06-25T10:04:24 < Ultrasauce> hot patching the firmware
2019-06-25T10:04:55 < emeb_mac> peapod
2019-06-25T10:09:39 < dongs> hmm
2019-06-25T10:09:44 < dongs> cant make sense of this shit
2019-06-25T10:10:02 < dongs> emeb_mac: off the top of your head, on F3 powered with HSE, (so 72mhz) is TIm2 gonna run at 72 or 144?
2019-06-25T10:10:05 < emeb_mac> you'd think they could locate the camera for a better view of the deploys
2019-06-25T10:10:25 < dongs> clock tree has a if APB1 prescaler = 1 x1, else x2
2019-06-25T10:10:44 < dongs> i gfuess i should jsut step through systemcoreclcokdupate and see
2019-06-25T10:10:46 < emeb_mac> dongs: I don't think anything on F3 is supposed to run faster than Fmx
2019-06-25T10:11:08 < emeb_mac> so 72 max, or 36 if it's on that slow APB
2019-06-25T10:12:51 < dongs> ok hm
2019-06-25T10:12:54 < dongs> something is fuky then
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2019-06-25T10:22:11 < emeb_mac> ya, looks like TIM2 is on APB1 which is 36MHz max
2019-06-25T10:23:51 < zyp> you sure? F3 is new enough that timers that could run at twice the bus speed existed
2019-06-25T10:24:10 < dongs> i dont even know where the fuck icheck this
2019-06-25T10:24:23 < dongs> systemcoreclcokupdate didnt lookup apb/shit prescales like F1 did
2019-06-25T10:24:27 < dongs> its a much simpler function
2019-06-25T10:24:34 < zyp> the RM?
2019-06-25T10:24:58 < dongs> ah nvm its in my setup.c
2019-06-25T10:25:03 < dongs> APB1 is /2
2019-06-25T10:25:19 < dongs> so that means tim2 is running at apb1x2 = 72mhz
2019-06-25T10:25:21 < dongs> so thats correct
2019-06-25T10:26:16 < dongs> i have a 300us pulse followed by some 80-120us pulses
2019-06-25T10:26:19 < dongs> and im not catching them at all
2019-06-25T10:26:20 < dongs> hmm
2019-06-25T10:26:43 < dongs> same shit works on another F3 thats actually running off HSI at like 24mhz
2019-06-25T10:26:47 < zyp> yeah, clock diagram says x2 if bus divider is >1
2019-06-25T10:27:16 < zyp> what are you trying to do?
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2019-06-25T10:27:32 < zyp> count pulses?
2019-06-25T10:27:42 < zyp> or time them?
2019-06-25T10:27:47 < dongs> time
2019-06-25T10:28:25 < dongs> it works on another board (different but copypasted firmware
2019-06-25T10:28:50 < dongs> there TIM2 runs at 1MHz, so the pulses are like 30-50 timer clicks. it catches them fine
2019-06-25T10:28:55 < dongs> on this other board, TIm2 runs at 72Mhz
2019-06-25T10:29:05 < dongs> so i added a macro PULSE(x) which does (x * 72)
2019-06-25T10:29:15 < dongs> is that correct or did i msis some numbers here
2019-06-25T10:29:26 < zyp> shouldn't it be division?
2019-06-25T10:29:44 < dongs> no because i'm doing if (PULSE(x) < 50 > 90) type thing
2019-06-25T10:29:54 < zyp> yeah, exactly
2019-06-25T10:29:56 < dongs> or... yeah?
2019-06-25T10:30:09 < dongs> wait lemme see maybe im doing x < PULSE(50)
2019-06-25T10:30:16 < dongs> yeah that.
2019-06-25T10:30:17 < dongs> the 2nd one
2019-06-25T10:30:20 < dongs> so mult is correct
2019-06-25T10:30:33 < dongs> if (val > HWTIM_TICKS(90) && val < HWTIM_TICKS(130)) {
2019-06-25T10:30:34 < dongs> hmm
2019-06-25T10:30:52 < dongs> this is also a cunt to debug because the ticks are only coming on pwoer-up
2019-06-25T10:30:59 < zyp> have you considered just setting PSC=72-1?
2019-06-25T10:31:01 < dongs> i can sorta cheat with a while (1) at startup and plug in the device
2019-06-25T10:31:10 < dongs> yeah still fails
2019-06-25T10:31:27 < zyp> ARR is stil at max?
2019-06-25T10:32:02 < dongs> yea ffffffff or whatever
2019-06-25T10:32:30 < dongs> the setup is identical other than PSC
2019-06-25T10:32:33 < zyp> what was that about startup? does these pulses come shortly after powerup?
2019-06-25T10:32:40 < dongs> 0 on 72mhz, and 24-1 on 24mhz
2019-06-25T10:32:52 < dongs> yeah but i made sure they're after my code is setup
2019-06-25T10:33:02 < dongs> i put a led up high and trigger on that
2019-06-25T10:33:08 < dongs> i got 30ms after that trigger until pulses come in
2019-06-25T10:33:11 < dongs> setup is already done before that.
2019-06-25T10:33:23 < zyp> even accounting for different startup times between HSI and HSE/PLL?
2019-06-25T10:33:42 < dongs> yeah, i measured from acutally led going high (which means i setup hwtim+exti)
2019-06-25T10:33:46 < dongs> its 30ms after that
2019-06-25T10:33:52 < dongs> so wahtever power-up startup already happens before that
2019-06-25T10:34:07 < zyp> good, just ruling out
2019-06-25T10:34:23 < dongs> yeah t hat was my first thing to check. cuz a bunch of shit delays for a while during powering up
2019-06-25T10:35:14 < zyp> have you tried looking at the capture register in the debugger? does it get set to anything at all, or does it stay at 0?
2019-06-25T10:35:53 < dongs> capturing is just exti, and getting timestamp from that TIM2->CNT
2019-06-25T10:36:04 < zyp> if the capture register stays at 0, pulses doesn't reach the timer so it's a config fuckup, if capture register gets a value you're probably fucking up what you do with it after it's captured
2019-06-25T10:36:07 < dongs> what fucking rages me is this works on 24mhz thing with literally same setup
2019-06-25T10:36:13 < zyp> oh
2019-06-25T10:36:26 < zyp> why are you using EXTI instead of timer in input capture mode?
2019-06-25T10:36:33 < dongs> because this hardware is garbage
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2019-06-25T10:36:54 < zyp> with EXTI there's an obvious difference here, you'll have less EXTI delay when the hardware is running faster
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2019-06-25T10:37:22 < dongs> isnt that a good thing?
2019-06-25T10:38:09 < zyp> not if it changes the timing enough to fall outside your timing limits
2019-06-25T10:39:05 < zyp> although if you're just capturing twice from an ISR each time and subtract, the latency difference should also subtract out
2019-06-25T10:39:15 < dongs> yeah...........
2019-06-25T10:39:42 < zyp> unless you have other ISRs firing at the same time and blocking the EXTI ISR for a while
2019-06-25T10:40:07 < dongs> no, i stopped that shit with a while 1 after setting up this only exti
2019-06-25T10:40:16 < zyp> anyway, next thing to check; does the EXTI ISR fire?
2019-06-25T10:40:18 < dongs> basically none of the shit runs except timers and this thing
2019-06-25T10:40:19 < dongs> hmm
2019-06-25T10:40:27 < dongs> yeah, i can breakpoint in it
2019-06-25T10:40:52 < zyp> if it does, check how many times it fires, which the debugger will probably fuck up, so add a volatile var and increment it in the ISR
2019-06-25T10:41:32 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/gxVe1I30.html
2019-06-25T10:41:37 < dongs> this is basically the exti thing
2019-06-25T10:41:48 < dongs> t = static uint32
2019-06-25T10:42:02 < dongs> im only firing on rising
2019-06-25T10:42:08 < dongs> and if i graph core.lamets
2019-06-25T10:42:24 < dongs> the numbers are trash, nothing even close to waht it should be
2019-06-25T10:42:52 < dongs> oh hm
2019-06-25T10:42:54 < dongs> increemnt in isr
2019-06-25T10:42:56 < dongs> lets try taht
2019-06-25T10:45:00 < zyp> maybe your signal got some extra noise, and when the cpu got faster you pick up some extra short pulses that you didn't see before
2019-06-25T10:48:15 < dongs> hmm
2019-06-25T10:48:20 < dongs> only get 5 ticks instead of like ~30
2019-06-25T10:48:22 < dongs> the fuck
2019-06-25T10:53:16 < dongs> my  exti handler calls back, then clears IT flag
2019-06-25T10:53:24 < dongs> should I clear fist?
2019-06-25T10:54:12 < dongs> hm no difference
2019-06-25T10:56:26 < zyp> now I'm curious how the 24MHz one works out
2019-06-25T10:56:36 < zyp> it should miss more pulses, not less
2019-06-25T10:57:46 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/UqJmUzv.jpg
2019-06-25T10:57:52 < dongs> potatopic of pulses
2019-06-25T10:58:20 < dongs> so 60us or 120us between triggers
2019-06-25T10:58:39 < dongs> it picks up none of htese
2019-06-25T10:59:26 < dongs> 8640 clocok cycles at 72mhz. 2880 at 24
2019-06-25T10:59:32 < dongs> should be plenty to catch each one, no?
2019-06-25T11:00:07 < zyp> should be
2019-06-25T11:01:49 < zyp> shame you didn't use a timer, timer could have done the pulse length calculation and all and just fed each pulse length into a DMA buffer
2019-06-25T11:02:49 < dongs> yeah absolutely. ive done that shit on proper stuff.
2019-06-25T11:02:53 < dongs> cant do much ehre other htan exti
2019-06-25T11:14:58 < dongs> so the shit only fires 4 times
2019-06-25T11:14:59 < dongs> and i get
2019-06-25T11:15:00 < dongs> 60129823
2019-06-25T11:15:00 < dongs> 8494 x3
2019-06-25T11:15:00 < dongs> 219458 x10000
2019-06-25T11:15:08 < dongs> if I log the values on each hit
2019-06-25T11:15:24 < dongs> well, not on each hit but sample + graph or whatever
2019-06-25T11:15:44 < dongs> 8494 sounds about right for 120us pulse?
2019-06-25T11:16:08 < dongs> but I only get 4 hits instead of ~30 or wahtever
2019-06-25T11:23:23 < dongs> yeah exti fires only 5 times
2019-06-25T11:23:25 < dongs> what the fuckkkkkkkkkkkk
2019-06-25T11:23:43 < dongs> i put a counter in the lowest level exti thing
2019-06-25T11:23:53 < dongs> and its same as number of times my callback happens
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2019-06-25T11:28:10 < dongs> oh MOTHERFUCKER
2019-06-25T11:28:20 < dongs> there's a god damn hardware lowpass filter after that pulse input
2019-06-25T11:28:26 < dongs> R+C
2019-06-25T11:28:33 < dongs> i was measuring pulses from the input pin
2019-06-25T11:28:36 < dongs> not at the exti pin
2019-06-25T11:28:41 < dongs> there it just looks liek a fucking bump
2019-06-25T11:28:46 < dongs> motherfucker, wasted whoel day on this shit
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2019-06-25T14:16:44 < dongs> say how much leeway do i ahve with lw-profile pcie height
2019-06-25T14:16:46 < dongs> can i add like 3mm
2019-06-25T14:16:58 < dongs> i think all llow-profile shit is still shorter than bracket itself isnt it?
2019-06-25T14:19:35 < dongs> https://www.neousys-tech.com/images/com_hikashop/upload/thumbnails/200x320/pcie-poe334lp.jpg
2019-06-25T14:19:38 < dongs> this looks kinda out of spec
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2019-06-25T14:37:54 < jadew> I just got quoted 12 euro for 3 holes, with an 80 eur setup charge
2019-06-25T14:37:58 < jadew> that's expensive, right?
2019-06-25T14:38:06 < jadew> the holes are in aluminium frontpanels
2019-06-25T14:39:24 < jadew> guess I'll do them myself
2019-06-25T14:39:42 < dongs> cheap ass nigger
2019-06-25T14:39:46 < jadew> lol
2019-06-25T14:40:35 < jadew> the only problem is sourcing the right drill sizes
2019-06-25T14:40:53 < dongs> and like, not actually failing at drilling
2019-06-25T14:41:00 < jadew> yes, that too
2019-06-25T14:41:10 < jadew> I have a drill press, but previous experiments didn't go very well
2019-06-25T14:42:39 -!- gsi__ [~gsisig@x4db501f5.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-06-25T14:53:15 < qyx> what diameter?
2019-06-25T14:53:27 < jadew> 6.7 and 8.2
2019-06-25T14:53:39 < qyx> also, is it actual drilling?
2019-06-25T14:53:46 < qyx> or cnc or laser or what
2019-06-25T14:53:57 < jadew> if I'm doing it, it's drilling
2019-06-25T14:54:13 < qyx> I mean what they quoted
2019-06-25T14:54:22 < jadew> they quoted holes
2019-06-25T14:54:34 < qyx> makes sense
2019-06-25T14:54:52 < jadew> think they're cutting them out?
2019-06-25T14:55:23 < qyx> idk whats the 80e setup cost
2019-06-25T14:55:54 < jadew> programming the machine I guess
2019-06-25T14:55:58 < qyx> here if I send them dxf, they laser-cut it for few eur
2019-06-25T14:56:00 < jadew> they wouldn't do it manually whatever it was
2019-06-25T14:56:15 < jadew> no setup cost?
2019-06-25T14:57:01 < jadew> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-6-7mm-HSSCo8-COBALT-HEAVY-DUTY-STUB-DRILL-EUROPA-TOOL-OSBORN-8205020670-P71/201411993272
2019-06-25T14:57:03 < jadew> found one
2019-06-25T14:57:08 < qyx> I didn't investigate it further, for example 4 panels with bending and like 2 holes each cost 40e together
2019-06-25T14:57:20 < qyx> *20 holes
2019-06-25T14:58:00 < qyx> so 8 bends, 80 holes and 100x50cm of 3mm steel
2019-06-25T14:58:12 < jadew> oh, that's nice
2019-06-25T14:58:22 < jadew> the holes were quoted separately from the panels
2019-06-25T15:10:38 < jadew> I wonder if 6.7 is too much
2019-06-25T15:11:55 < jadew> it's for SMA connectors, which are about 6.25 mm in diameter
2019-06-25T15:12:41 < jadew> seems a bit loose
2019-06-25T15:13:28 < jadew> I wonder if you can buy a sheet of metal with holes in it to see what floats your boat best
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2019-06-25T15:37:26 < rajkosto> whats better for filling acrylic, super glue or 2 part epoxy
2019-06-25T15:41:41 < aandrew> I picked up some of that weld-on #3 that ws mentioned yesterday
2019-06-25T15:41:51 < aandrew> won't fill acrylic at all but it looked amazing
2019-06-25T15:42:09 < aandrew> superglue won't fill acrylic either, and it'll cause it to fog like crazy
2019-06-25T15:42:28 < aandrew> jadew: update on your chinese bride?
2019-06-25T15:43:07 < jadew> out of customs
2019-06-25T15:43:17 < jadew> should get it tomorrow
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2019-06-25T15:44:16 < jadew> they couldn't be arsed to deliver it today, even if it was cleared in the morning
2019-06-25T15:45:34 < Cracki> if it's cleared after the trucks are out...
2019-06-25T15:45:46 < rajkosto> aandrew, that shit is only available in america
2019-06-25T15:46:05 < rajkosto> europe only has Acrifix 1S 0117 which is super expensive
2019-06-25T15:50:09 < rajkosto> or TENSOL 70
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2019-06-25T16:02:34 < sync> aandrew: filling in what sense?
2019-06-25T16:08:49 < rajkosto> weldon 3/4 are solvents for acrylic only
2019-06-25T16:09:06 < rajkosto> any gaps will remain gaps
2019-06-25T16:09:16 < rajkosto> so you need super smooth on both sides if you want good bond
2019-06-25T16:09:29 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-06-25_15-08-35_6WviwkH8Q.jpg dirtypcbs soldermask is worse than ever lol
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2019-06-25T16:29:20 < dongs> that looks fucking disgusting
2019-06-25T16:30:50 < rajkosto> no soldermask between pins of qfn/tqfp/usb either
2019-06-25T16:30:52 < rajkosto> like usual
2019-06-25T16:31:03 < rajkosto> i think they specifically say their black is worse than the other ones
2019-06-25T16:31:08 < jadew> the boards I'm waiting for, I already have the exact ones, but I didn't want to sell them because I didn't like the silkscreen
2019-06-25T16:31:19 < jadew> and it was better than what you have there
2019-06-25T16:31:20 < aandrew> sync: that's a question for rajkosto
2019-06-25T16:31:29 < rajkosto> had to use dirtypcbs cuz "multiple designs" though
2019-06-25T16:31:51 < rajkosto> and jlc/pcbway wants 8$ per design extra
2019-06-25T16:32:06 < rajkosto> and they said i had 5 extra designs
2019-06-25T16:32:06 < jadew> you want them panelised?
2019-06-25T16:32:16 < rajkosto> no
2019-06-25T16:32:17 < aandrew> lol dirtypcbs
2019-06-25T16:32:22 < rajkosto> they detect mousebites as "extra designs"
2019-06-25T16:32:36 < aandrew> what is RG, RB, RH
2019-06-25T16:32:38 < rajkosto> well they detect anything in separate rooms that isnt connected to other stuff as "extra desgns"
2019-06-25T16:32:51 < Cracki> RH sounds like jst header
2019-06-25T16:33:12 < rajkosto> R is resistors
2019-06-25T16:33:38 < aandrew> yes, but you have R, RG, RB, RH, RR
2019-06-25T16:34:00 < aandrew> ther's also RDU and RDD and CDU and RDL on the upper left board
2019-06-25T16:34:01 < rajkosto> yes
2019-06-25T16:34:14 < aandrew> I've not seen that kind of designation before
2019-06-25T16:34:40 < rajkosto> all the RH are the same value
2019-06-25T16:34:42 < rajkosto> all the RR are the same value
2019-06-25T16:34:43 < rajkosto> etc
2019-06-25T16:34:50 < rajkosto> just easier for me
2019-06-25T16:35:26 < jadew> why not have multiple R1
2019-06-25T16:35:51 < rajkosto> cuz then what about R11
2019-06-25T16:36:11 < aandrew> interesting, I'd not thought of that before
2019-06-25T16:36:33 < jadew> rajkosto, R11 is a different value
2019-06-25T16:36:48 < rajkosto> why would it have to be a number ?
2019-06-25T16:36:55 < rajkosto> the only requirement for designators is that they are unique per component
2019-06-25T16:37:03 < rajkosto> H tells me what they are for better than 1
2019-06-25T16:37:30 < jadew> lol, that's bs
2019-06-25T16:37:43 < rajkosto> H is for heater
2019-06-25T16:37:52 < jadew> ah, ok
2019-06-25T16:37:54 < rajkosto> RGB are for those colors
2019-06-25T16:38:26 < Cracki> the only way to escalate magic numbering is to use greek symbols
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2019-06-25T16:42:27 < jadew> https://www.foxnews.com/politics/u-s-senators-briefed-on-ufos-as-suspicions-grow-surrounding-naval-sightings
2019-06-25T16:44:09 < jadew> "As part of a program investigating the issue, Navy personnel reportedly told Pentagon officials that they encountered aircraft that appeared to defy the laws of physics and aerodynamics while in military airspace."
2019-06-25T16:46:45 < jadew> a couple of years ago I was reading some declassified educational materials on technology they had in WW2 and after... really makes you wonder what they have now, considering that shit is declassified, so it's considered useless
2019-06-25T16:49:57 < jadew> this is a particularly interesting quote from that article: Christopher Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, has said that the U.S. knew UFOs existed. "We know that UFOs exist. This is no longer an issue," he said. "The issue is why are they here? Where are they coming from and what is the technology behind these devices that we are observing?"
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2019-06-25T16:57:59 < sync> aandrew: acrifix will fill it
2019-06-25T16:59:30 < Cracki> jadew, what did they declassify, except some drug induced hallucinations and weather balloons?
2019-06-25T17:00:16 < Cracki> they call anything UFO that's unidentified, flying, and not just atmosphere
2019-06-25T17:00:39 < Cracki> any vessels that are not their own fall under that
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2019-06-25T17:19:46 < jadew> Cracki, I know
2019-06-25T17:19:55 < jadew> they declassified radar technology stuff
2019-06-25T17:20:42 < jadew> and anti-radar technology, which was equally interesting
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2019-06-25T17:27:41 < Cracki> you sound like a radio/hf guy
2019-06-25T17:28:07 < Cracki> feels like when they still had export restrictions on crypto because it's WAR TECHNOLOGY
2019-06-25T17:29:01 < jadew> they still do
2019-06-25T17:29:26 < jadew> and not just them, several countries in the EU have crypto restrictions too
2019-06-25T17:29:29 < jadew> and not just on export
2019-06-25T17:29:43 < jadew> you just can't sell shit they can't break
2019-06-25T17:30:25 < specing> huh?
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2019-06-25T17:30:56 < jadew> surprising, eh?
2019-06-25T17:31:04 < Cracki> does giving it away help?
2019-06-25T17:31:12 < jadew> heh
2019-06-25T17:31:42 < Cracki> I'm acutely aware of the distinction between source code and binary, which is silly but has _some_ nice consequences
2019-06-25T17:31:56 < Cracki> but then there's taking money for a product, or giving it away
2019-06-25T17:33:03 < Cracki> ... I have no problem with global warming, but could we PLEASE have a little wind with that
2019-06-25T17:33:08 < Cracki> <- melting
2019-06-25T17:33:51 < jadew> funny you'd ask for that, I was on the balcony earlier and got back into the house because I was afraid a tree might fall on me
2019-06-25T17:33:57 < jadew> that's how hard the wind is blowing
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2019-06-25T17:35:45 < Cracki> I agree, getting your tree blown in this weather sounds like it could end badly
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2019-06-25T18:18:48 < aandrew> sync: acrifix?
2019-06-25T18:19:47 < sync> yes, a methacrylate
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2019-06-25T19:42:20 < PaulFertser> Found some ##stm32-worthy material, attention Laurenceb: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8015180/MI6-used-bodily-fluids-as-invisible-ink.html
2019-06-25T19:49:26 < aandrew> in related news, I watched Johnny English last night
2019-06-25T19:50:18 < PaulFertser> Hehe, related indeed! Did you enjoy it?
2019-06-25T19:51:19 < mawk> «Furthermore it had the advantage of being readily available.»
2019-06-25T19:51:20 < mawk> lol
2019-06-25T19:51:27 < PaulFertser> "On Rotten Tomatoes, the film has an approval rating of 33%"
2019-06-25T19:51:35 < mawk> he would have set up a milking farm for soldiers to produce ink
2019-06-25T19:52:50 < Cracki> >Mansfield Cumming
2019-06-25T19:53:45 -!- turnip420 [~hpcadmin@d207-216-21-173.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-06-25T19:58:20 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: better try ##stm32-offtopic 
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2019-06-25T19:58:58 < Steffanx> Even blaxter couldn't handle it
2019-06-25T19:59:41 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: may I refrain please? At least this article had some understandable contents in it while his links usually required knowing memes or some other shit just to be mildly amusing.
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2019-06-25T20:08:13 < Steffanx> Hah PaulFertser. :P
2019-06-25T20:10:26 < Steffanx> I'll use some more smileys next time. Sorry PaulFertser 
2019-06-25T20:12:19 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: np :) I am probably not up to date on this chan policies and latest trends so wasn't sure if you meant that as a joke or not. Peace bro :)
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2019-06-25T20:13:16 < Steffanx> The channel is real though
2019-06-25T20:13:30 < turnip420> When you use pvPortMalloc() in a FreeRTOS thread. Does it allocate the memory from that tasks stack, or a global heap which is shared between all tasks
2019-06-25T20:14:01 < turnip420> When I set the stack size for each task, should I account for dynamic memory as well
2019-06-25T20:14:47 < Cracki> heap
2019-06-25T20:15:09 < PaulFertser> turnip420: the common notion is that you should try to do as little as possible wrt dynamic memory in embedded, that is, allocate all you need in advance to be sure you get no surprises.
2019-06-25T20:16:14 < turnip420> PaulFertser: So do you use xTaskCreateStatic() over xTaskCreate()
2019-06-25T20:16:30 < turnip420> Because from my reading it seems xTaskCreate() is all dynamic memory
2019-06-25T20:16:31 < PaulFertser> Also, https://freertos.org/a00111.html
2019-06-25T20:16:52 < PaulFertser> turnip420: I was creating all tasks just once in main() and they're running all the time, so everything was predictable.
2019-06-25T20:17:11 < turnip420> Okay cool, makes sense
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2019-06-25T20:17:32 < turnip420> I'm not using dynamic memory ad-hoc. It's more determinisitic than that
2019-06-25T20:18:00 < zyp> memory allocation strategies depends on your application
2019-06-25T20:18:16 < Cracki> it may be the case that interrupts don't get their own stack, but use whatever task's stack that has been interrupted. then you need to account for the maximum stack usage of any interrupt and add that to _every_ task
2019-06-25T20:18:29 < zyp> it's not necessarily unreasonable to use dynamic memory in embedded
2019-06-25T20:19:24 < Cracki> "handler mode" and main stack ptr vs process stack ptr
2019-06-25T20:20:12 < PaulFertser> Of course. E.g. rockbox firmware for portable music players allows to run different apps, plugins etc, but that makes it closer to a general-purpose OS, and it doesn't really need to be deterministic anyway.
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2019-06-25T20:21:52 < zyp> dynamic memory does not equal nondeterminism
2019-06-25T20:25:04 < zyp> I'd say that the main reason people frown upon dynamic memory on embedded is because you don't have a lot of memory overall, so you often can't afford to be careless with how you use it
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2019-06-25T20:26:20 < upgrdman> https://i.redd.it/hiy647qfoe631.jpg
2019-06-25T20:26:26 < zyp> for static allocations you get a nice compile time check, either your code links or it doesn't
2019-06-25T20:26:44 < Cracki> upgrdman, that's rendered in povray
2019-06-25T20:26:53 < Cracki> you can tell by the floor tiles
2019-06-25T20:27:12 < zyp> stack allocations can be a bit harder to debug, but monitoring usage and catching overflows isn't too hard
2019-06-25T20:27:36 < zyp> heap allocations however are way harder to keep track of
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2019-06-25T20:28:23 < zyp> on a normal computer, it doesn't really matter if you have a little leak that adds up to some megabytes over time
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2019-06-25T20:28:40 < zyp> but when your memory is measured in kilobytes you generally can't afford leaks
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2019-06-25T20:28:52 < Cracki> or running out of heap
2019-06-25T20:29:11 < zyp> same thing
2019-06-25T20:29:14 < Cracki> you'd have to budget the maximum allocation for every task that could run
2019-06-25T20:29:43 < Cracki> so worst case thinking, not "it runs, ship it"
2019-06-25T20:30:00 < zyp> it's the same thing still
2019-06-25T20:30:12 < Cracki> a leak at least would fill up and crash in a timely manner
2019-06-25T20:30:15 < zyp> it's just way harder to run out of heap on a normal computer :)
2019-06-25T20:30:38 < zyp> especially with swap
2019-06-25T20:30:48 < Cracki> swap sram to flash :P
2019-06-25T20:30:50 < zyp> with swap, the system generally grinds to a halt before you actually run out
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2019-06-25T20:42:52 < dongs> zyp did you see result of my rage yesteday haha
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2019-06-25T20:48:58 < zyp> nah, I've been flying
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2019-06-25T21:06:02 < aandrew> dongs: ooh I missed it too
2019-06-25T21:07:54 < dongs> haha.
2019-06-25T21:08:09 < dongs> rage-worthy
2019-06-25T21:10:42 < Steffanx> You can always rage more if you want
2019-06-25T21:12:09 < aandrew> hm, STM32 can't emit the 50MHz RMII clock? sucks.
2019-06-25T21:14:04 < Steffanx> whats wrong with 25?
2019-06-25T21:14:55 < aandrew> RMII
2019-06-25T21:15:10 < sync> my ksz8081 shit works with 25MHz
2019-06-25T21:15:13 < sync> and rmii
2019-06-25T21:15:31 < aandrew> I'm betting the PHY is taking a 25MHz crystal and outputting 50MHz ref clk
2019-06-25T21:15:35 < aandrew> RMII requires 50MHz ref clk
2019-06-25T21:15:40 < sync> yes
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2019-06-25T21:21:14 < Steffanx> You can always use the mco pin with some prescaler stuff right?
2019-06-25T21:21:17 < Steffanx> Are you trying to get rid of some extra xtal aandrew?
2019-06-25T21:21:22 < aandrew> yeah that's what I'm loooking at
2019-06-25T21:21:37 < aandrew> Steffanx: no, the guy who did the schematic/layout routed the PHY's CLK_OUT (not TXCLK or RXCLK) to PA1
2019-06-25T21:21:45 < aandrew> and CLK_OUT is 25MHz, not 50
2019-06-25T21:24:09 < aandrew> I don't think I have easy access to MCO either
2019-06-25T21:24:13 < aandrew> might be better to just try to mod the board
2019-06-25T21:24:31 < Steffanx> https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/eevblog.com time for a celebration?
2019-06-25T21:30:59 < aandrew> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009XkiLNSAZ/stm32f4-rmii-eth-external-clock-source
2019-06-25T21:31:01 < aandrew> last comment LOL
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2019-06-25T21:40:20 < Steffanx> problem is. what version is he referring to. Didnt they change it a dozen times?
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2019-06-25T22:09:01 < kakimir> sauna time
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2019-06-25T22:10:13 < Steffanx> can we join you kakimir?
2019-06-25T22:10:22 < kakimir> you need to
2019-06-25T22:10:43 < kakimir> start building back yard sauna
2019-06-25T22:10:54 < Steffanx> nah i have other things to build there
2019-06-25T22:11:08 < kakimir> underground sauna
2019-06-25T22:11:30 < Steffanx> its already warm enough... 32C
2019-06-25T22:11:53 < kakimir> use sauna for tactical cooling effect
2019-06-25T22:12:17 < kakimir> it removes grease from skin and opens skin pores
2019-06-25T22:12:45 < kakimir> also contrast from sauna to ambient
2019-06-25T22:13:04 < kakimir> "it's not so warm after all"
2019-06-25T22:13:30 < kakimir> sauna then>
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2019-06-25T22:15:28 < mawk> fried vegetables must be better
2019-06-25T22:15:34 < mawk> american haute cuisine
2019-06-25T22:15:59 < Steffanx> just make us a pizza boddax
2019-06-25T22:17:36 < Steffanx> i guess
2019-06-25T22:19:26 < mawk> nut oil
2019-06-25T22:19:31 < mawk> or colza oil
2019-06-25T22:21:00 < Cracki> are you back to discussing invisible ink
2019-06-25T22:21:23 < mawk> :(
2019-06-25T22:21:27 < Cracki> :P
2019-06-25T22:21:59 < Cracki> sauna sounds good, but not when it's already so damn hot out
2019-06-25T22:24:46 < Steffanx> i assume you have that all
2019-06-25T22:25:30 < zyp> Cracki, bullshit, once you get out of the sauna, outside doesn't feel so hot anymore :p
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2019-06-25T23:33:19 < superbia> evening Steffanx pro
2019-06-25T23:51:09 < englishman> kakimir: house extension plan includes sauna.
--- Day changed Wed Jun 26 2019
2019-06-26T00:00:21 < Steffanx>  Welcome superbia. Fellow pro
2019-06-26T00:03:59 < superbia> how does one licence gpl linux in a product
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2019-06-26T00:06:02 < superbia> Steffanx: mind a pm ??
2019-06-26T00:07:51 < PaulFertser> superbia: is your question not answered by https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html ?
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2019-06-26T00:08:52 < superbia> PaulFertser: amazing
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2019-06-26T00:12:04 < Steffanx> Nah, sorry its sleepy time superbia
2019-06-26T00:12:35 < superbia> $ how much
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2019-06-26T00:13:07 < superbia>  / 45min
2019-06-26T00:16:48 < karlp> ok .sk, you're hot.
2019-06-26T00:17:02 < karlp> but hey, in room, on paper, weather forecast! never seen that before!
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2019-06-26T00:35:30 < specing> Thorn: ugreen doesen't make 2m magnetic microusb cables, do they?
2019-06-26T00:35:35 < specing> can only see 1m...
2019-06-26T00:40:46 < kakimir> back from sauna
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2019-06-26T00:42:27 < catphish> sauna sounds fun
2019-06-26T00:43:44 < kakimir> for kids it is
2019-06-26T00:43:54 < kakimir> and for adults it's relaxation
2019-06-26T00:45:03 < kakimir> ugreen.. is that shiet even good?
2019-06-26T00:45:15 < kakimir> - compared to juicebitz
2019-06-26T00:52:46 < specing> no idea
2019-06-26T00:56:20 < specing> Thinking about getting this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32956264490.html
2019-06-26T00:58:23 < Thorn> specing: dunno I haven't looked at magnetic cables
2019-06-26T01:04:34 < specing> I thought ali had a lot of choice, but damn does fasttech carry some cables
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2019-06-26T01:17:19 < johntramp> trying to debug a hardfault but all the registers are corrupt: R13=1FFFF2B0, MSP=1FFFF2B0, PSP=00000000, R14(LR)=FFFFFFF1
2019-06-26T01:18:12 < turnip420> freeRTOS heap_4 says that it "does combine adjacent free memory blocks". Is this something that I have to worry about when writing to data?
2019-06-26T01:19:00 < johntramp> I am stuck for ideas how to find what is going wrong. I am pretty certain it is from within the bluetooth stack blob
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2019-06-26T01:20:32 < turnip420> I'm getting a configASSERT( ( pxLink->xBlockSize & xBlockAllocatedBit ) != 0 ); however I'm only freeing the data once
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2019-06-26T01:23:17 < johntramp> turnip420: turnip420  I haven't used freertos but that looks like trying to free unallocated memory?
2019-06-26T01:25:33 < specing> The cables are now cheaper than they were during the great ali mid-year sale lol
2019-06-26T01:25:36 < specing> what a joke
2019-06-26T01:26:29 < turnip420> johntramp: Yeah you would think... but I've called malloc before
2019-06-26T01:26:40 < turnip420> And am only calling free once
2019-06-26T01:30:29 < specing> "The parcel to kazakhstan came in 42 days. " ... on horseback lol
2019-06-26T01:34:02 < aandrew> there we go. ethernet is up
2019-06-26T01:34:33 < aandrew> HAL uses a pseudo register called ST and a couple bit defs in the hal_conf.h to let you define which register to read to see the link status
2019-06-26T01:39:22 < Thorn> >HAL
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2019-06-26T02:15:17 < Laurenceb> HAL9000
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2019-06-26T04:12:09 < dongs> fpgaduders, how does one deal with something like XOR eax, eax to reset it to 0 when your inputs are X (i.e. eax was never initialized). this is on sim, do you just create an initial condition that resets such shits to zero?
2019-06-26T04:18:24 < dongs> STM32G071B-DISCO 4u cc:englishman
2019-06-26T04:18:45 < dongs> ah thats kinda old
2019-06-26T04:18:49 < dongs> digikey just spammed it to me
2019-06-26T04:19:19 < johntramp> so I am getting a busfault with a BFAR 0x1ffff2cc,   is there any way to trigger an interrupt when that address is about to be read?
2019-06-26T04:20:24 < Thorn> johntramp: something like this https://lb9mg.no/2018/08/25/cortex-m-debugging-runtime-memory-corruption/
2019-06-26T04:20:36 < dongs> johntramp: sounds like youre fucking up stack
2019-06-26T04:20:41 < dongs> cuz thats few bytes under ram start
2019-06-26T04:20:50 < dongs> just look at backtrace in your debugger
2019-06-26T04:20:59 < dongs> it should be pretty obvious what went wrong
2019-06-26T04:21:37 < johntramp> dongs:    this is inside a siliconlabs bluetooth stack blob though, I think it may be a linker issue 
2019-06-26T04:21:47 < dongs> ah, rip
2019-06-26T04:21:52 < dongs> closed sores blobs
2019-06-26T04:21:56 < johntramp> yeah :(
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2019-06-26T04:37:37 < dongs> http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheet/npc/SM5907AF.pdf wow that is some weirdly specific IC
2019-06-26T04:37:41 < dongs> paging emeb_mac 
2019-06-26T04:38:36 < emeb_mac> yo
2019-06-26T04:38:46 < dongs> oh shit, this is anti-skip IC for like a CD player or someshit
2019-06-26T04:39:04 < dongs> check out that weird shit i found heh
2019-06-26T04:40:24 < emeb_mac> freaky stuff
2019-06-26T04:42:06 < dongs> chiangirl has some super weird shit sometimes
2019-06-26T04:43:16 < Thorn> are they still being manufactured?
2019-06-26T04:43:21 < dongs> no lol
2019-06-26T04:43:26 < dongs> datasheet is from 2000
2019-06-26T04:43:38 < dongs> and im pretty sure anything it does can now be done better wiht generic shit
2019-06-26T04:45:18 < emeb_mac> no doubt
2019-06-26T04:46:04 < englishman> 5V cortex M0 http://www.sonix.com.tw/article-jp-1396-12902
2019-06-26T04:46:18 < englishman> dongs: yeah g0 is gr8
2019-06-26T04:46:32 < dongs> ive heard of sonix
2019-06-26T04:47:56 < dongs> that datasheet is like 4 years old
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2019-06-26T07:19:54 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-06-26_06-19-02_MNfWD0guW.png that doesnt look bad
2019-06-26T07:28:52 < englishman> your colorimeter?
2019-06-26T07:29:14 < rajkosto> yeah i lost the will to solder it together by the time the pcbs arrived lol
2019-06-26T07:29:15 < jpa-> which sensor are you using?
2019-06-26T07:29:23 < rajkosto> https://ams.com/documents/20143/36005/AS73211_DS000556_3-01.pdf/a65474c0-b302-c2fd-e30a-c98df87616df 
2019-06-26T07:30:46 < jpa-> hm, no specs for responsivity variation
2019-06-26T07:31:22 < rajkosto> by temperature or ?
2019-06-26T07:31:41 < jpa-> by manufacturing, temperature, age, humidity
2019-06-26T07:32:30 < rajkosto> youre supposed to calibrate it to get absolute values anyway
2019-06-26T07:33:33 < jpa-> yeah, depends on how accurate; and whether one-time calibration is enough
2019-06-26T07:33:46 < jpa-> without specs no way to know without own testing
2019-06-26T07:34:08 < rajkosto> well there isnt really an alternative chip
2019-06-26T07:34:27 < jpa-> yep, i've been searching also
2019-06-26T07:34:40 < rajkosto> they bought all the sensor makers lol
2019-06-26T07:34:53 < jpa-> though for my application i also need 10kHz+ samplerate, so AS73211 doesn't work either
2019-06-26T07:34:56 < rajkosto> and then deprecated the good one and made this as alternative (this one has ADC integrated into the chip)
2019-06-26T07:35:14 < rajkosto> for that samplerate you gotta just use a photodiode
2019-06-26T07:35:57 < rajkosto> well with the earlier model you could have supplied your own photodiode ADC
2019-06-26T07:36:25 < rajkosto> thought they really expect you to use theirs
2019-06-26T07:36:32 < rajkosto> doesnt matter now, its not in stock anymore
2019-06-26T07:36:35 < jpa-> the customer bought up the whole worlds remaining stock of MTCS-TIAM4 and they're just using them now; no direct alternative in sight, and as products popularity rises their stock is waning
2019-06-26T07:36:52 < rajkosto> https://www.expo21xx.com/news/wp-content/uploads/MAZeT-MTCS-CDCAF-color-sensor-700x466.jpg
2019-06-26T07:36:59 < rajkosto> this was the earlier model and it was so much better
2019-06-26T07:37:27 < jpa-> S9702 is a promising alternative, with external amplifier
2019-06-26T07:37:49 < jpa-> but that's with RGB not XYZ response
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2019-06-26T07:38:24 < jpa-> for slower sampling, AS7261/AS7262 also
2019-06-26T07:38:33 < rajkosto> i have AS7262
2019-06-26T07:38:34 < rajkosto> it sucks
2019-06-26T07:38:40 < jpa-> in what way?
2019-06-26T07:39:06 < rajkosto> it has 6 "pixels" that are so tiny that even at 762ms cycle and 64x gain it cant give me enough resolution
2019-06-26T07:39:19 < jpa-> ah yeah, poor sensitivity
2019-06-26T07:39:22 < rajkosto> also it has its own proprietary firmware you cant change
2019-06-26T07:39:25 < rajkosto> that has bugs
2019-06-26T07:39:32 < jpa-> sounds great
2019-06-26T07:39:44 < rajkosto> sure you can just use the 6 raw sensor values
2019-06-26T07:39:51 < rajkosto> but then you lose their internal factory calibration
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2019-06-26T07:40:25 < rajkosto> with their firmware providing you floats, anything close to pure-ish green is NaN/cannot be calculated: https://images.sshnuke.net/green%20is%20nan.jpg
2019-06-26T07:40:39 < rajkosto> its also pretty temperature sensitive with no charts on how to apply the compensation
2019-06-26T07:40:54 < jpa-> C12666MA is nice also though somewhat expensive
2019-06-26T07:41:39 < rajkosto> well now thats spectrometry
2019-06-26T07:42:30 < rajkosto> you would use that to calibrate 73211
2019-06-26T07:44:41 < rajkosto> speaking of still dunno how to get the light from the 4 diodes into the sensor properly/evenly
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2019-06-26T08:15:05 < Cracki> cat6 flat/"ribbon" ethernet cables... can that be trusted?
2019-06-26T08:15:17 < rajkosto> yes they are fine for short runs 
2019-06-26T08:15:48 < Cracki> oh lol they're actually shielded per pair
2019-06-26T08:15:56 < Cracki> says the info graphic
2019-06-26T08:16:13 < Cracki> I expected straight up awg9000 ribbon cable
2019-06-26T08:16:54 < Cracki> oh, this one claims cat7 even
2019-06-26T08:17:18 < rajkosto> depends on the koality
2019-06-26T08:17:31 < rajkosto> there are some that are just wires
2019-06-26T08:17:44 < rajkosto> nothing wrong with using those for connecting a router to a switch right next to it though
2019-06-26T08:17:53 < Cracki> xray everything
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2019-06-26T08:49:05 < jadew> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/23/technology/artificial-intelligence-ai-workplace.html
2019-06-26T08:49:23 < jadew> "A Machine May Not Take Your Job, but One Could Become Your Boss"
2019-06-26T08:50:40 < jadew> so it might take your boss's job, because you were right all along and he doesn't do that much
2019-06-26T08:51:30 < jadew> anyway, apparently it's already happening
2019-06-26T08:56:25 < dongs> lmao what the fuck
2019-06-26T08:56:29 < dongs> https://www.yeggi.com/q/pcie+bracket/
2019-06-26T08:56:32 < dongs> i had no idea this was a thing
2019-06-26T08:56:44 < dongs> like 3d printing PCI bracket
2019-06-26T09:03:14 < rajkosto> are they really 3d printing them ?
2019-06-26T09:03:20 < rajkosto> seems like its just models of existing ones
2019-06-26T09:04:14 < dongs> ?
2019-06-26T09:04:28 < dongs> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3674206
2019-06-26T09:04:30 < dongs> thats definitely 3d printed
2019-06-26T09:05:21 < jadew> dongs, too bad is not very useful, only for positioning maybe
2019-06-26T09:06:01 < jadew> but it's so elastic that anything you do, you do the the PCB
2019-06-26T09:06:23 < jadew> the PCI connector will have to take all the strain
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2019-06-26T09:38:43 < dongs> i donno just seems retarded in general
2019-06-26T09:38:49 < dongs> pci brackets are what like 1mm thick?
2019-06-26T09:39:38 < dongs> Material: 0.86mm thick (20GA)
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2019-06-26T09:40:30 < mupfwrk> Hello.
2019-06-26T09:43:32 < mupfwrk> Guess I will just hang out in here while I'm at work because we mainly use STMs in our projects. Currently setting up some CMake based infrastructure. Also working with the F7-series for the very first time. I'm glad if I can help but I'm sure that I will have a lot of questions myself. :)
2019-06-26T09:44:54 < dongs> > cmake
2019-06-26T09:44:55 < dongs> lol
2019-06-26T09:46:05 < mupfwrk> Oh hell yes, CMake. You have no idea what monstrosity we used before.
2019-06-26T09:46:31 < mupfwrk> I have never seen such a complex Makefile in my life. Impossible to maintain.
2019-06-26T09:46:47 < karlp> been using cmake long?
2019-06-26T09:46:59 < karlp> (it ends up just as vile)
2019-06-26T09:47:24 < karlp> just different, and with cmake version workarounds, and scattered into piles of files.
2019-06-26T09:49:56 < mupfwrk> Not necessarily
2019-06-26T09:50:41 < mupfwrk> It's very convenient in how our projects are set up. We used shared software modules and abstraction layers for different platforms. All based on CMake. I just added STM32 support to blend in.
2019-06-26T09:50:56 < mupfwrk> And it simply works with less configuration.
2019-06-26T09:52:07 < karlp> I'm glad it works for you :)
2019-06-26T09:52:49 < mupfwrk> It had a steep learning curve but it works now.
2019-06-26T09:53:01 < mupfwrk> Never really worked with CMake before.
2019-06-26T09:56:58 < jadew> any ideas on how IP ratings are tested?
2019-06-26T09:57:06 < jadew> or who does that for cheap?
2019-06-26T09:58:03 < karlp> hahah, expecting certs for cheap :)
2019-06-26T09:58:11 < jadew> one can only hope :D
2019-06-26T09:58:20 < karlp> iirc, you can buy one of the test fingers on digikey
2019-06-26T09:58:22 < jadew> I'm getting my box manufactured \o/
2019-06-26T09:58:42 < jadew> what test fingers?
2019-06-26T09:58:44 < jadew> what are those?
2019-06-26T09:58:56 < karlp> wel, start with reading the IP tests first then :)
2019-06-26T09:59:06 < jadew> good idea
2019-06-26T10:00:15 < karlp> google IP2x test finger you can get the general idea.
2019-06-26T10:00:49 < jadew> thanks, I'
2019-06-26T10:00:57 < jadew> thanks, I'm looking into it
2019-06-26T10:04:32 < jadew> yey, I'm getting my PCBs today
2019-06-26T10:04:41 < jadew> DHL just sent me a message
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2019-06-26T10:40:31 < mupfwrk> A question that popped up yesterday: is it possible to synchronise timers?
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2019-06-26T10:44:52 < zyp> yes
2019-06-26T10:44:57 < zyp> also, how do you think?
2019-06-26T10:47:34 < mupfwrk> That would be my next question, yes.
2019-06-26T10:53:37 < jly> cats on stm32
2019-06-26T11:01:45 < zyp> mupfwrk, I mean, in what sense do you want them synchronized?
2019-06-26T11:06:24 < qyx> jadew: you can continue with IP4x test water
2019-06-26T11:06:29 < qyx> bottled
2019-06-26T11:06:58 < qyx> IPx4 I mean
2019-06-26T11:10:29 < dongs> another altidumb success.
2019-06-26T11:10:42 < dongs> save, efl, pick a spot
2019-06-26T11:10:50 < dongs> ctrl+z: undoes something that was done before efl
2019-06-26T11:10:52 < dongs> FUCK YOU
2019-06-26T11:11:03 < dongs> how do you have a fucking undo queue that doens't catch all the shit
2019-06-26T11:11:22 < jly> sounds all fucked up
2019-06-26T11:14:15 < dongs> the best part
2019-06-26T11:14:35 < dongs> the previous redo function was changing transparancy of a 3d object (cylinder)
2019-06-26T11:14:48 < dongs> so when It did undo, it added NEW cylinder at the old efl location
2019-06-26T11:14:52 < dongs> with the old brighness.
2019-06-26T11:14:57 < dongs> er transparency
2019-06-26T11:24:52 < dongs> yep, and it fucked that model
2019-06-26T11:24:59 < dongs> even tho i deleted the parts
2019-06-26T11:25:12 < dongs> it still thinks the bounding box extends there
2019-06-26T11:25:21 < dongs> to the phantom old cylinder
2019-06-26T11:25:24 < dongs> fucking failware
2019-06-26T11:32:55 < jadew> qyx, I'm pretty sure it will pass IPx4
2019-06-26T11:33:42 < jadew> it has no rubber gaskets or anything like that, but there shouldn't be any significant seams
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2019-06-26T11:33:51 < jadew> I think it will do good even submerged
2019-06-26T11:34:10 < jadew> what's that IPx7
2019-06-26T11:34:30 < jadew> but that's just my guess
2019-06-26T11:39:16 < jpa-> isn't that quite easy to test, if you don't need the cert paperwork?
2019-06-26T11:39:33 < jadew> jpa-, well I kinda want the cert
2019-06-26T11:39:37 < jadew> so I can put it in the datasheet
2019-06-26T11:39:44 < jpa-> you don't need a cert for that
2019-06-26T11:39:53 < jadew> really?
2019-06-26T11:40:02 < jpa-> just don't claim it has a cert, many datasheets don't claim any certification so they don't have any
2019-06-26T11:40:13 < jadew> that's interesting
2019-06-26T11:40:35 < jadew> well, then I guess I'll just have to find a 1 meter deep pool and throw it in
2019-06-26T11:40:50 < jpa-> IP class rating system is just a standard, whether it is just what they promise or if it is has been tested you can see in the additional cert markings and details on who tested it
2019-06-26T11:41:15 < jadew> I see
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2019-06-26T12:23:39 < jadew> I don't know how to price a product I'll start selling today or tomorrow
2019-06-26T12:24:14 < jadew> there's something similar from china, but it's garbage - it costs between $70 and $80, no warranty, shit specs, etc
2019-06-26T12:24:52 < jly> m
2019-06-26T12:25:12 < jadew> then there's mine: really good specs, fully tested, warranty, 30 days return if you don't like it
2019-06-26T12:25:42 < jly> muh shekel
2019-06-26T12:25:55 < jadew> yes
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2019-06-26T12:30:45 < jadew> I'll start with 140 and see how that goes, I feel like I'm doing a bad deal tho
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2019-06-26T12:34:42 < dongs> huh
2019-06-26T12:34:44 < dongs> i never noticed this
2019-06-26T12:34:52 < dongs> low-profile bracket has screw on opposite side
2019-06-26T12:34:55 < dongs> of full-height
2019-06-26T12:35:01 < dongs> the fixation screw
2019-06-26T12:35:17 < jadew> did you end up printing one?
2019-06-26T12:41:35 < Steffanx> Dongs has a 3d printer? No way
2019-06-26T12:41:50 < dongs> jadew: no i loked at the drawings
2019-06-26T12:44:25 < Steffanx> Or does he have one? I sounds too makerish to me
2019-06-26T12:48:38 < jly> hmm
2019-06-26T12:49:20 < jadew> Steffanx, he has one but he thinks it's yucky
2019-06-26T12:49:26 < qyx> jadew: whats your manufacturing costs btw?
2019-06-26T12:50:11 < jadew> qyx, not sure yet, aside from the BOM, I spend a lot of time assembling and testing them
2019-06-26T12:50:16 < jadew> haven't put a price on that yet
2019-06-26T12:50:41 < jadew> also, it requires expensive equipment
2019-06-26T12:50:47 < qyx> you should
2019-06-26T12:50:49 < jadew> this new one, more expensive than the last
2019-06-26T12:51:07 < qyx> is it some hacky rf thingie?
2019-06-26T12:51:12 < jadew> yeah
2019-06-26T12:51:49 < qyx> where are you going to sell it?
2019-06-26T12:51:59 < jadew> on my website and ebay
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2019-06-26T12:58:02 < mupfwrk> zyp I'm not entirely sure about the final application, but they discussed it in a meeting. We're developing industrial and mobile automation hardware and now it is my job to determine if it is possible or not.
2019-06-26T12:58:33 < mupfwrk> or what do you mean in what sense?
2019-06-26T13:01:30 < zyp> "synchronixing timers" is a very generic statement
2019-06-26T13:04:05 < jadew> you can have one timer fed from the other IIRC
2019-06-26T13:04:12 < jadew> also, you can trigger them from the same external trigger
2019-06-26T13:04:29 < jadew> that might work with internal triggers too
2019-06-26T13:05:19 < dongs> okay so uhhhhh wow, even bracket depth is different
2019-06-26T13:05:21 < dongs> on FH vs HH
2019-06-26T13:05:48 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/zdIJEcg.png
2019-06-26T13:06:28 < dongs> hh bracket is shorter by 4mm on teh bottom
2019-06-26T13:06:35 < dongs> assuming same pcie socket depth
2019-06-26T13:17:09 < zyp> mupfwrk, anyway, the generic answer is "yes, it's possible"
2019-06-26T13:17:45 < mupfwrk> Thanks, I might ask the question more specifically as soon I spoke to my colleagues
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2019-06-26T13:33:31 < qyx> mupfwrk: see reference manual of a random new stm32, timers section, master and slave modes, trigger outputs/inputs
2019-06-26T13:33:50 < qyx> you will get an idea of whats possible
2019-06-26T13:33:54 < mupfwrk> Thanks!
2019-06-26T13:34:15 < Thorn> timer cookbook appnote too
2019-06-26T13:35:52 < mupfwrk> AN4776?
2019-06-26T13:37:53 < Thorn> and an4013
2019-06-26T13:43:32 < mupfwrk> Ty
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2019-06-26T14:07:18 < aandrew> dongs: you doing pcie shits
2019-06-26T14:09:47 < aandrew> dongs: what is efl in altium parlance?
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2019-06-26T14:46:39 < dongs> aandrew: pcblib
2019-06-26T14:46:45 < dongs> set ref
2019-06-26T14:46:50 < dongs> to point
2019-06-26T14:47:26 < aandrew> ah. sounds simialr to what I do to align 3d bodies to holes or pads
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2019-06-26T15:27:16 < dongs> youll have to tell me how
2019-06-26T15:27:18 < dongs> because i couldnt figure it out
2019-06-26T15:48:23 < aandrew> in 3d view, rotate around until you can see the center of the pin. I usually do it off-axis because 99% of 3d pins are actually square pins 
2019-06-26T15:48:56 < aandrew> the add snap point and instead of clicking the point and trying to guess the center, hit the space bar. that lets you click two points and get the center of them
2019-06-26T15:49:19 < aandrew> so for a square pin, just click one vertex then the opposite corner one and bam,  instant perfectly centered snap point on the middle of hte pin
2019-06-26T15:49:37 < aandrew> then go back into 2D view and you can move the 3D body and the pin will "snap" to the center of the pad or the hole
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2019-06-26T16:40:17 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f-q-Rc_1aI
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2019-06-26T17:43:18 < dongs> ok back
2019-06-26T17:43:49 < dongs> aandrew: yeah, but in the retarded sidebar'd GUI clicking add snappoint just adds one at 0,0 or someshit
2019-06-26T17:43:53 < dongs> and i have no way to choose
2019-06-26T17:43:56 < dongs> opening up altidumb
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2019-06-26T17:52:09 < dongs> ah PCIe CEM 2.0 has the low-profile -> full height slot bracket spec'd
2019-06-26T17:52:32 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/1Zrn8O6.png but its even worse than your typical datasheet
2019-06-26T17:52:35 < dongs> in missing dimensions
2019-06-26T17:55:04 < dongs> aandrew: how do i snappoint
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2019-06-26T18:00:35 < aandrew> dongs: I don't understand teh question
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2019-06-26T18:01:00 < dongs>  aandrew> the add snap point and instead of clicking the point and trying to guess the center, hit the space bar. that lets
2019-06-26T18:01:02 < dongs>                  you click two points and get the center of them
2019-06-26T18:01:03 < dongs> how do i even add
2019-06-26T18:01:06 < dongs> this
2019-06-26T18:01:46 < dongs> im in 3d mode
2019-06-26T18:01:49 < dongs> i rotated the shit
2019-06-26T18:01:54 < dongs> is ee pin
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2019-06-26T18:26:43 < aandrew> ok
2019-06-26T18:26:53 < aandrew> tools -> 3d body -> add snap points
2019-06-26T18:26:54 < aandrew> something like that
2019-06-26T18:27:51 < aandrew> tools -> 3d body placement -> add snap points from vertices
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2019-06-26T20:34:45 < Steffanx> too much hassle.
2019-06-26T20:39:33 < qyx> I was about to ask if you mean a pizza stencil
2019-06-26T20:52:28 < PaulFertser> boddax: https://ncrmnt.org/2015/09/02/stencils/
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2019-06-26T23:01:57 < kakimir> crapimir is here
2019-06-26T23:07:37 -!- johntramp [~john@unaffiliated/johntramp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
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2019-06-26T23:08:45 < Steffanx> Hello kakimir. Don't speak so low of yourself mate
2019-06-26T23:08:53 < Steffanx> You're worth it.
2019-06-26T23:08:53 -!- johntramp [~john@175.111.102.145] has joined ##stm32
2019-06-26T23:08:59 < Steffanx> so is johntramp
2019-06-26T23:09:08 < kakimir> thanks motivational steff
2019-06-26T23:09:51 < Laurenceb> Egg Man
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2019-06-26T23:14:28 < Laurenceb> ^ the Patriarchy!
2019-06-26T23:16:00 < Steffanx> Are you into sonic, Laurenceb?
2019-06-26T23:17:16 < qyx> you mean audiophile?
2019-06-26T23:19:51 < Steffanx> are hedgehogs audiophile?
2019-06-26T23:25:12 < Steffanx> so hows the engine moving kakimir?
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2019-06-26T23:25:33 < kakimir> carburetor is on workshop desktop
2019-06-26T23:25:42 < kakimir> waiting for carburetor mounts
2019-06-26T23:25:45 < kakimir> and
2019-06-26T23:25:56 < kakimir> lambda + lambda controller + gauge
2019-06-26T23:26:09 < kakimir> air fuel gauge system to say
2019-06-26T23:26:22 < kakimir> air/fuel ratio*
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2019-06-26T23:29:06 < kakimir> carburetor is clean now
2019-06-26T23:29:41 < Steffanx> Didnt you already drive it around? 
2019-06-26T23:30:35 < englishman> it wasn't broken so he fixed it
2019-06-26T23:31:06 < kakimir> it wasn't broken enough* so I'm fixing it
2019-06-26T23:31:18 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/150lFjcSIqsWvs5u_IhMAiGq9zAb0Rsnd/view?usp=sharing
2019-06-26T23:33:04 < specing> tinky
2019-06-26T23:33:07 < specing> stinky*
2019-06-26T23:34:16 < kakimir> are you judging my carburetors?
2019-06-26T23:34:34 < kakimir> >:]
2019-06-26T23:35:10 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2019-06-26T23:35:56 < Steffanx> hm
2019-06-26T23:38:12 < specing> kakimir: make it electric
2019-06-26T23:38:23 < kakimir> makes no sense
2019-06-26T23:38:47 < kakimir> base load is so high compared to mass budget for batteries
2019-06-26T23:39:16 < Steffanx> but its greeeen
2019-06-26T23:39:21 < kakimir> if I want to go green I drive scooter
2019-06-26T23:39:37 < Steffanx> or a bicycle.
2019-06-26T23:39:45 < kakimir> runs on a whif of gasoline
2019-06-26T23:41:39 < kakimir> ride a bicycle -> actually drive car to places
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2019-06-26T23:44:00 < Laurenceb> >carburetor
2019-06-26T23:44:04 < Laurenceb> is it 1920?
2019-06-26T23:44:27 < kakimir> it's nostalgig
2019-06-26T23:48:52 < kakimir> also cheap to buy
2019-06-26T23:49:04 < kakimir> tricky to tune and operate
2019-06-26T23:49:28 < kakimir> if it's fucked 250eur lambda kit is a must
2019-06-26T23:49:50 < kakimir> I will also feature individual pipes with thermocouples
2019-06-26T23:52:06 < kakimir> collector has already M18 bung and individual pipes have M6 bungs that happen to fit M6 thermocouples :o
2019-06-26T23:52:43 < Laurenceb> sheet bitcoin
2019-06-26T23:53:07 < Laurenceb> tfw I set up my investments to sell automatically at 11.6k
2019-06-26T23:53:18 < Laurenceb> it just spiked at just under 14
2019-06-26T23:53:49 < specing> :)
2019-06-26T23:55:28 < zyp> what did you buy in at?
2019-06-26T23:55:53 < kakimir> funds are safy
2019-06-26T23:55:56 < kakimir> safu
2019-06-26T23:56:16 < Laurenceb> zyp: 7700
2019-06-26T23:56:22 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
2019-06-26T23:56:34 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DelF6zEHXpE funds are safu
2019-06-26T23:56:50 < zyp> I've still got the bitcoin I got from Steffanx
2019-06-26T23:57:03 < zyp> and the other bitcoin I bought the same year
2019-06-26T23:57:06 < Steffanx> Is it work 2k now?
2019-06-26T23:57:13 < Steffanx> Worth 
2019-06-26T23:57:25 < kakimir> 9k
2019-06-26T23:57:43 < kakimir> zyp: 1.0 bitcoin?
2019-06-26T23:57:53 < zyp> no, 0.0something IIRC
2019-06-26T23:59:56 < kakimir> Laurenceb: quickly buy yourself back in!
--- Day changed Thu Jun 27 2019
2019-06-27T00:00:47 < Laurenceb> dunno its very risky
2019-06-27T00:00:50 < zyp> selling at 11.6k and buying back at 12.8k doesn't sound like the best idea ever :p
2019-06-27T00:01:04 < Laurenceb> easier just to invest with a fund manager
2019-06-27T00:01:14 < Laurenceb>  20%/year with low risk
2019-06-27T00:02:34 < qyx> hows your basement girl?
2019-06-27T00:02:46 < turnip420> In freeRTOS where are variables kept in the first system main()
2019-06-27T00:02:52 < turnip420> Before starting the schedular
2019-06-27T00:02:53 < qyx> I though they put you in a jail when they discovered her
2019-06-27T00:03:17 < turnip420> Because for some reason stuff I'm putting in main are getting corrupted
2019-06-27T00:03:26 < zyp> turnip420, on the system stack
2019-06-27T00:03:46 < turnip420> zyp: Is this kept in the freeRTOS heap?
2019-06-27T00:03:52 < zyp> no.
2019-06-27T00:04:04 < Laurenceb> qyx: she is annoying and incapable of doing anything useful
2019-06-27T00:04:08 < turnip420> It it possible my freeRTOS heap is overwriting this stack?
2019-06-27T00:04:21 < zyp> I'm not sure where freertos is putting it, general practice is putting the main stack at end of ram
2019-06-27T00:04:22 < Laurenceb> tiem to send her home to russia
2019-06-27T00:04:46 < qyx> there was somebody with the same problem
2019-06-27T00:04:54 < zyp> turnip420, possible for sure, but not sure how likely
2019-06-27T00:05:02 < qyx> the answer was something like "don't make variables before starting the scheduler"
2019-06-27T00:05:21 < zyp> yeah, I'm guessing it might just be trashed
2019-06-27T00:05:34 < turnip420> Oh good
2019-06-27T00:05:38 < zyp> since main won't run anymore once the scheduler is started
2019-06-27T00:05:55 < turnip420> That's what I figure it's just dumping that stack
2019-06-27T00:06:06 < zyp> in that case, creating variables is fine, just don't reference them later
2019-06-27T00:06:26 < zyp> e.g. don't pass away pointers to stuff stored on it
2019-06-27T00:06:38 < zyp> anything else wouldn't be accessible anyway
2019-06-27T00:07:20 < turnip420> I'm making an object and want to call the constructor in main
2019-06-27T00:07:24 < turnip420> I guess I'm SOL
2019-06-27T00:07:48 < turnip420> I could just make the object in a task I guess... Kinda messy because I want it to be shared by all tasks
2019-06-27T00:08:04 < kakimir> Laurenceb: does it mean your basement will be free soon?
2019-06-27T00:08:08 < zyp> can't you put it on the heap?
2019-06-27T00:08:42 < Laurenceb> kakimir: probably if I quite this jerb
2019-06-27T00:08:46 < Laurenceb> *quit
2019-06-27T00:08:57 < kakimir> any plans to do that yet?
2019-06-27T00:09:08 < kakimir> howe is the lost database?
2019-06-27T00:09:36 < turnip420> zyp: Just using malloc?
2019-06-27T00:09:42 < turnip420> Yeah I think that would work
2019-06-27T00:11:34 < zyp> you'll probably need to hack around with operator new
2019-06-27T00:12:15 < zyp> also, do you even have malloc available? having both libc heap and freertos heap sounds like a recipe for disaster
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2019-06-27T00:14:39 < Laurenceb> kakimir: nah I'm sending my CV around
2019-06-27T00:14:51 < Laurenceb> database guy might setup RAID... at some point
2019-06-27T00:15:05 < kakimir> should not be too difficult for you
2019-06-27T00:15:12 < kakimir> to get new jubb
2019-06-27T00:16:45 < qyx> just use heap3 to use libc malloc/free for freertos
2019-06-27T00:17:04 < qyx> if you don't need some funky allocator
2019-06-27T00:17:36 < zyp> yeah, that would work, mapping one to the other so both command sets are targetting the same heap is reasonable
2019-06-27T00:18:09 < qyx> also, you will die of misra
2019-06-27T00:18:11 < kakimir> rocket engineer, uses matlab for anything, can do serious math, does embedded.. to say you should have pretty impressive CV Lurencer
2019-06-27T00:18:35 < kakimir> does analog magic
2019-06-27T00:18:43 < kakimir> for measuring stuffs
2019-06-27T00:18:58 < zyp> > what's your biggest weakness? - can't find the space button
2019-06-27T00:19:30 < kakimir> does it say "ENTER" in it?
2019-06-27T00:21:16 < qyx> ok, I found out I cannot have interwebs in my new house
2019-06-27T00:21:28 < qyx> If I put the LTE router indoors, there is no LTE
2019-06-27T00:21:28 < kakimir> interesting
2019-06-27T00:21:37 < zyp> > interwebs
2019-06-27T00:21:38 < zyp> > LTE
2019-06-27T00:21:39 < kakimir> use external antenna boi
2019-06-27T00:21:48 < zyp> why do you need to do LTE?
2019-06-27T00:21:49 < qyx> If I put it outdoors, LTE signal is ok, but the wifi can't go indoors
2019-06-27T00:21:55 < zyp> uh
2019-06-27T00:21:56 < specing> zyp: > paying $$$ for a wired internet
2019-06-27T00:22:09 < specing> qyx: do usb tethering
2019-06-27T00:22:28 < qyx> the basement has aluminium radon barrier
2019-06-27T00:22:34 < zyp> https://mikrotik.com/product/lhg_4g_kit <- here you go, problem solved
2019-06-27T00:22:38 < qyx> and the rest has metalized moisture barrier
2019-06-27T00:22:51 < qyx> so no go for anything
2019-06-27T00:22:56 < qyx> even the cell phone as problems indoors
2019-06-27T00:23:03 < kakimir> new houses man
2019-06-27T00:23:21 < zyp> heh, metalized moisture barrier
2019-06-27T00:23:22 < qyx> yeah, I'll wire up some mikrotiks
2019-06-27T00:23:26 < kakimir> it's like in a bunker
2019-06-27T00:23:41 < qyx> now I have rbm33g with both LTE and wifi
2019-06-27T00:23:47 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/19U0h89KbWYaHAP6CLJdFmN2urrjo7TaK/view?usp=sharing iskra things I use
2019-06-27T00:23:49 < specing> qyx: sounds like an expensive house
2019-06-27T00:23:56 < qyx> zyp: LTE because theres nothing more
2019-06-27T00:24:30 < zyp> my flooring underlay is also metallized, pretty much kills wifi signals from propagating between the floors
2019-06-27T00:24:46 < kakimir> if you want to go for serious LTE there are solutions with multiple modems
2019-06-27T00:24:55 < qyx> specing: a passive one, actually it costs less than a 1room flat
2019-06-27T00:25:13 < zyp> pretty happy I prepared for ceilingmount APs on each floor even though I expected one would cover the entire house, turns out it didn't
2019-06-27T00:25:40 < zyp> qyx, get that mikrotik thing then
2019-06-27T00:26:12 < qyx> I'll probably get one for indoors, one for the basement and one for LTE&outdoors
2019-06-27T00:26:17 < zyp> or maybe a smaller one if you don't actually need the gain, just need to get it outdoors
2019-06-27T00:26:31 < kakimir> if I wasn't already invested in box type of modems I would have got that microtik web cube
2019-06-27T00:26:33 < qyx> there is cat cabling
2019-06-27T00:27:31 < zyp> kakimir, the what?
2019-06-27T00:28:12 < kakimir> oh it wasn't the cube thing they have
2019-06-27T00:28:15 < qyx> the cube
2019-06-27T00:28:27 < qyx> he accidentally the stm32 cube with mikrotik's one
2019-06-27T00:28:33 < zyp> ubnt has an all in one cube thing, maybe you're thinking of that?
2019-06-27T00:28:37 < kakimir> qyx: https://www.ebay.com/itm/50m-CAT5e-FTP-STP-SHIELDED-OUTDOOR-Network-Data-Cable-External-SOLID-COPPER/162061908434
2019-06-27T00:28:48 < kakimir> some chunky wire
2019-06-27T00:28:54 < kakimir> I have used it
2019-06-27T00:28:59 < specing> qyx: zyp I should look into those, for killing any and all signals
2019-06-27T00:29:06 < specing> wired eth only :))
2019-06-27T00:30:21 < zyp> I need a new switch soon
2019-06-27T00:30:37 < qyx> mhm maybe I could dig a hole and tap some FO cable nearby
2019-06-27T00:31:02 < qyx> and then place 300m of FO across a vineyard
2019-06-27T00:32:18 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/vkfgq.jpg <- my current networking core is pretty crowded :p
2019-06-27T00:33:10 < zyp> with only a fraction of the ports hooked up
2019-06-27T00:37:05 < qyx> is it a modular unshielded cat5e panel?
2019-06-27T00:37:57 < kakimir> I have only one router
2019-06-27T00:38:00 < zyp> it's a modular unshielded panel, category depends on the connectors you put into it
2019-06-27T00:38:09 < kakimir> Edgerouter X
2019-06-27T00:38:30 < zyp> kakimir, they're nice
2019-06-27T00:38:54 < zyp> I've got one on my desk at work, for separating test nets
2019-06-27T00:38:59 < kakimir> so much features I just need to assume it's all good
2019-06-27T00:39:11 < kakimir> by default
2019-06-27T00:39:24 < zyp> how's NAT performance on the ER-X though?
2019-06-27T00:39:55 < zyp> I've heard they're a little bit underpowered if you're doing NAT
2019-06-27T00:40:05 < zyp> and a ERL-3 isn't much more than the ER-X
2019-06-27T00:41:09 < zyp> once I get the switch replaced with a PoE-capable one, I'm planning to also replace the router with an ER-4
2019-06-27T00:41:45 < zyp> mostly because then I can rack mount it properly instead of using zipties to hold it in place :p
2019-06-27T00:42:35 < kakimir> I noticed that it might have some performance issues
2019-06-27T00:43:04 < kakimir> it was not definitelly a transparent box in terms of network response
2019-06-27T00:43:24 < kakimir> HW acc needs to be switched on in terminal
2019-06-27T00:44:14 < kakimir> I don't quite get it why to ship it with HW acc disabled
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2019-06-27T00:51:42 < Laurenceb> https://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/information/advice/toilets/
2019-06-27T00:51:52 < Laurenceb> >Designated shepee sites
2019-06-27T00:53:01 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-f5ebe155.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2019-06-27T00:53:28 < Cracki> >she pee
2019-06-27T00:53:29 < Cracki> wat
2019-06-27T00:54:19 < Laurenceb> prosthetic duck
2019-06-27T00:54:52 < Cracki> cricket bat
2019-06-27T00:56:11 < Laurenceb> https://www.google.com/search?q=bent+duck
2019-06-27T00:57:12 < Laurenceb> oh wow https://mobile.twitter.com/bent_duck_navy?lang=en
2019-06-27T00:57:27 < karlp> wow, I thought I was missing lolrence.
2019-06-27T00:57:30 < karlp> turns out I wasn't
2019-06-27T00:58:58 -!- jly [uid355225@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qsyaswejcvcyefjg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
2019-06-27T01:04:59 < Laurenceb> CPU Blue Heart
2019-06-27T01:12:55 < Laurenceb> lol reddit b& the donald
2019-06-27T01:13:18 < Laurenceb> how will Israel be recover
2019-06-27T01:13:37 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3WvQ8EGQho
2019-06-27T01:14:27 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@2a01:e35:8b76:a0f0:9572:4dab:1c76:1202] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-06-27T01:20:05 -!- kakimir [b237f4fb@178-55-244-251.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-06-27T01:21:24 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a01:e0a:198:e110:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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2019-06-27T01:54:46 < qyx> why is kicad always moving the cursor
2019-06-27T01:54:55 < qyx> why the hell does it even touch it
2019-06-27T01:55:27 < qyx> click hierarchical sheet, it centers the cursor to the middle of the sheet
2019-06-27T01:55:45 < qyx> click leave current sheet, it places it on the sheet symbol
2019-06-27T02:01:36 < kakimir> >kicad
2019-06-27T02:04:16 < Laurenceb> >le 4chan greentext
2019-06-27T02:12:16 < englishman> Laurenceb: who is saying 20% per year
2019-06-27T02:12:37 < Laurenceb> decent managed funds 
2019-06-27T02:12:49 < englishman> citation needed
2019-06-27T02:12:56 < Laurenceb> nobody sane makes any claims, but historical performance has reached that
2019-06-27T02:13:18 < englishman> so 20% in one year is 20% per year to you, an academic
2019-06-27T02:13:53 < Laurenceb> nah over last 5 to 10 years
2019-06-27T02:14:17 < englishman> yeah since 2008 during the biggest and longest bull market history has known?
2019-06-27T02:14:48 < englishman> just hope they aren't putting your money in slack and beyond meat
2019-06-27T02:15:15 < Laurenceb> still better than bitcoin
2019-06-27T02:15:35 < englishman> true. buttcoin can't go below zero
2019-06-27T02:15:37 < Laurenceb> I've made 15k or so in the last few months from managed stuff so I dont care
2019-06-27T02:16:06 < englishman> I think I've made that in the Same time frame reselling samtec
2019-06-27T02:16:19 < Laurenceb> heh
2019-06-27T02:16:34 < Laurenceb> at some point you can retire and live off investments at this rate of return
2019-06-27T02:16:50 < englishman> every working retiree says that
2019-06-27T02:18:22 < englishman> rumour is John McAfee is buying all the buttcoins to pump up the price to hit 100k by year's end lest he lose his own bet and have to cut off and eat his dick
2019-06-27T02:18:30 -!- zyp [zyp@zyp.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2019-06-27T02:26:07  * karlp laughs
2019-06-27T02:26:08 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c700:d26:866:9311:e896:3487] has joined ##stm32
2019-06-27T02:26:50 < karlp> 20% on managed is insane.
2019-06-27T02:28:20 -!- Rickta59 [~kimballr@107.12.203.133] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
2019-06-27T02:28:27 < Laurenceb> https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelfoster/2017/04/14/here-are-the-best-vanguard-funds-to-buy-theyre-not-the-ones-you-think/
2019-06-27T02:28:42 < Laurenceb> 15% (just a random example)
2019-06-27T02:30:17 < karlp> which one is 15 in that link?
2019-06-27T02:31:11 < Laurenceb> the top one
2019-06-27T02:32:59 < karlp> everything in that article says it's temporary.
2019-06-27T02:33:20 < karlp> "top" ?
2019-06-27T02:33:29 < Laurenceb> Baillie Gifford American Fund B Accumulation
2019-06-27T02:33:39 < Laurenceb> ^24%/annum over last 5 years
2019-06-27T02:33:44 < karlp> are you on the same link you pasted?
2019-06-27T02:33:49 < Laurenceb> nope
2019-06-27T02:33:57 < karlp> gifford isn't on the link you pasted
2019-06-27T02:34:30 < Laurenceb> http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/funds/snapshot/snapshot.aspx?id=F0GBR0506U
2019-06-27T02:37:52 < Cracki> I've gotta find a way to algorithmically buy and sell bitcoin...
2019-06-27T02:38:45 < qyx> youll not be the first one
2019-06-27T02:38:53 < qyx> -> you'll fail
2019-06-27T02:38:59 < bitmask> if (price == LOW) buy(); else sell();
2019-06-27T02:39:09 < Laurenceb> https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discounts,-prices--and--factsheets/search-results/l/lindsell-train-global-equity-class-d-income/charts
2019-06-27T02:39:14 < Laurenceb> 23% O_o
2019-06-27T02:40:16 < Cracki> biggest barrier to entry: I have no idea what's trustworthy, what exchanges and so on
2019-06-27T02:40:32 < Laurenceb>  18% over the last 8 years
2019-06-27T02:41:39 < Laurenceb> how can buttcoin compete
2019-06-27T02:42:25 < bitmask> hmm, so I was messing with some stuff and I think I set my z offset too low. it was having trouble pushing through the filament so I lowered the flow and it stopped doing it, I put it back up and same thing, how long is this shit gonna take to even out
2019-06-27T02:42:36 < bitmask> 3d printing related of course
2019-06-27T02:42:58 < Laurenceb> I was simulating buttcoin autotrading using historical data, managed to get something that produced a consistent return by comparing daily mean price over a 3 day window
2019-06-27T02:43:28 < qyx> incl trading fees?
2019-06-27T02:44:12 < Laurenceb> nope, but thats only 1% or so
2019-06-27T02:44:17 < qyx> haha
2019-06-27T02:44:44 < Laurenceb> I've averaged over 20% return so far
2019-06-27T02:44:59 < bitmask> in what time frame, bitcoin moves fast and then sits still forever
2019-06-27T02:45:02 < Laurenceb> 15% over long periods seems very realistic
2019-06-27T02:45:14 < Laurenceb> bitmask: yeah its hard to predict
2019-06-27T02:45:43 < bitmask> I had like $10 or something, maybe its worth $20 now
2019-06-27T02:45:57 < bitmask> do we have a bitcoin bot in here?
2019-06-27T02:45:59 < bitmask> :)
2019-06-27T02:46:19 < Laurenceb> I have etoro but its a bit dodgy
2019-06-27T02:46:28 < Laurenceb> keep getting run up by drug dealer types
2019-06-27T02:46:48 < bitmask> oh hah, its only worth $10 now, I guess it was $5
2019-06-27T02:46:50 < Laurenceb> at least I have ppl to help hide my money in the Bahamas now
2019-06-27T02:47:56 < bitmask> I have a ton of electroneum but I'm pretty sure thats never coming back
2019-06-27T02:48:13 < Laurenceb> turbinium is where its at
2019-06-27T02:48:24 < qyx> speaking of money and you, from a island of eternal rain
2019-06-27T02:48:28 < aandrew> https://youtu.be/_6sh097Dk5k thsi is a fucking awesome video if you're into computer history
2019-06-27T02:48:28 < qyx> hows your brexits going?
2019-06-27T02:48:35 < qyx> will we have a brundo?
2019-06-27T02:48:44 < Laurenceb> qyx: very good now we get waifu basher pm
2019-06-27T02:49:48 < Laurenceb> he will mansplain brexit and it will be beautiful
2019-06-27T02:50:25 < qyx> heh
2019-06-27T02:51:13 < kakimir> :p
2019-06-27T02:51:35 < Laurenceb> thinking of making a babby air suspension system just for fun
2019-06-27T02:52:17 < Laurenceb> 4 of these https://www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=05545488
2019-06-27T02:53:06 < Laurenceb> if they dont leak much I could possibly connect them to pop bottles pressurised with schrader vales
2019-06-27T02:55:26 < Laurenceb> the wurk system uses wire rope "isolators"
2019-06-27T02:55:32 < Laurenceb> that dont actually do anything
2019-06-27T03:00:58 < Thorn> T - 4 h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri2IwIzBKjc
2019-06-27T03:04:46 < Laurenceb> hobbyking to orbit
2019-06-27T03:05:20 < kakimir> magnetically levitate babby shakker
2019-06-27T03:05:36 < kakimir> also use active dampening
2019-06-27T03:05:40 < Laurenceb> you just went full autist
2019-06-27T03:05:51 < Laurenceb> air suspension will work fine
2019-06-27T03:06:17 < kakimir> what is that babby shaker about?
2019-06-27T03:06:34 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: hl, karlp, ds2, sandeepkr, munki, kuldeep
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2019-06-27T03:06:57 < Laurenceb> absorbing vehicle vibration so the babby being transported doesnt get shaken
2019-06-27T03:07:09 < kakimir> did you make the whole box thing
2019-06-27T03:07:15 < Laurenceb> its a solved problem - see the tractor seats with built in air suspension
2019-06-27T03:07:26 < kakimir> or is your project only about the dampening
2019-06-27T03:07:29 < Laurenceb> nah I just do instrumentation and data processing
2019-06-27T03:07:36 < kakimir> but the project
2019-06-27T03:07:41 < Laurenceb> the whole project is about reducing vibration
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2019-06-27T03:07:56 < kakimir> how many millions you said you have funds?
2019-06-27T03:08:00 < Laurenceb> 4
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2019-06-27T03:08:43 < Laurenceb> there are 8 managers
2019-06-27T03:09:01 < kakimir> and 3 guys that do the thing?
2019-06-27T03:09:06 < Laurenceb> they need their wages and travel expenses
2019-06-27T03:09:15 < Laurenceb> yeah - 2 guys and a russian grrrl
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2019-06-27T03:10:28 < kakimir> certainly a good excercise for you 3
2019-06-27T03:10:59 < kakimir> when you have real babby in there?
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2019-06-27T03:11:18 < Laurenceb> probably never - the project has been "descoped"
2019-06-27T03:11:33 < Laurenceb> we are only ever going to use a plastic babby
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2019-06-27T03:12:17 < kakimir> did you burn thru the 4mil?
2019-06-27T03:16:16 < kakimir> is there any goals to archive Laurenceb?
2019-06-27T03:17:09 < kakimir> or has there ever been?
2019-06-27T03:21:08 < Laurenceb> not really, its all too incoherent
2019-06-27T03:21:15 < Laurenceb> yeah we blew about 2.5 so far
2019-06-27T03:23:07 < Laurenceb> almost all on managers wages
2019-06-27T03:23:11 < Laurenceb> and travel expenses
2019-06-27T03:23:20 < mawk> lol
2019-06-27T03:23:25 < mawk> shareholders will sue you
2019-06-27T03:24:36 < Laurenceb> >shareholders
2019-06-27T03:24:41 < Laurenceb> this is a uni project
2019-06-27T03:24:59 < kakimir> it's kinda acceptable
2019-06-27T03:25:46 < Laurenceb> russian grrrl was trying to persuade me to smash some random guys bike with a hammer O_o
2019-06-27T03:26:17 < Laurenceb> she claims she has a BF but I dont see any sign of him facebook stalking her
2019-06-27T03:26:26 < Laurenceb> femcel
2019-06-27T03:26:28 < kakimir> she just mad
2019-06-27T03:26:46 < Laurenceb> virgin with rage
2019-06-27T03:27:11 < Laurenceb> suspected ass burgers as well
2019-06-27T03:27:41 < Laurenceb> >look up the ass burgers school near my house on faceberg
2019-06-27T03:27:50 < Laurenceb> >the are grrrls with ass burgers
2019-06-27T03:27:53 < kakimir> I think how such uni projects work is like they have these boxes with paper strips with words in them
2019-06-27T03:28:05 < Laurenceb> >they are having a cosplay convention
2019-06-27T03:28:11 < Laurenceb> who could have predicted this
2019-06-27T03:28:20 < Laurenceb> heh
2019-06-27T03:28:34 < kakimir> then they pull strips randomly and it says "babby" and "shakker"
2019-06-27T03:28:39 < Laurenceb> heh
2019-06-27T03:28:56 < Laurenceb> and "database", "internet of things" "3d printing" "big data"
2019-06-27T03:29:27 < kakimir> then they throw dice and the number is how many millions the budget is
2019-06-27T03:29:40 < Laurenceb> lmao I'm checking this school out on faceberg again, their assembly photo looks like a 4chan meetup
2019-06-27T03:30:14 < kakimir> you sure it's not you she is stalking?
2019-06-27T03:30:57 < Laurenceb> hopefully not, she would have to take a shower because she smells like an accident in a chemical plant
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2019-06-27T03:31:49 < kakimir> oh shit the clock looks like that now :O
2019-06-27T03:33:04 < Laurenceb> maybe I should gatecrash the cosplay convention
2019-06-27T03:33:15 < Laurenceb> dunno if autism is contagious
2019-06-27T03:36:18 < kakimir> how many of the project team are studying in uni or fresh out of uni?
2019-06-27T03:37:53 < Laurenceb> about 3
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2019-06-27T04:26:42 < Thorn> Engrish help plz. if I start receiving a beacon 50ms before its predicted time, what do you call these 50 ms (a noun)?
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2019-06-27T05:00:35 < englishman> premature time?
2019-06-27T05:06:24 < Thorn> that sounds like it's unintended
2019-06-27T05:08:23 < Thorn> it's an error margin to account for possible measurement error, clock drift, scheduling errors etc.
2019-06-27T05:15:20 < englishman> receive window?
2019-06-27T05:15:46 < englishman> yes premature implies unintended
2019-06-27T05:19:28 < Thorn> why don't I just call it beacon_rx_start_margin
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2019-06-27T07:18:08 < Thorn> launch delayed 24 hrs
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2019-06-27T08:07:26 < mupfwrk> Morning.
2019-06-27T08:15:02 < mupfwrk> I'm currently using STM32CubeIDE to set up a new (larger) project using a STM32F7 BGA176. For some reason there's a grey overlay over the whole chip. It's annoying because the text on the balls is harder to read.
2019-06-27T08:15:20 < mupfwrk> When I load the project, I see the grey overlay loading
2019-06-27T08:15:33 < mupfwrk> What is this and is there a way to disable this?
2019-06-27T08:16:51 < mupfwrk> https://i.postimg.cc/dVP0yMLQ/overlay.png
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2019-06-27T12:05:40 < jly> a taste of blaxter
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2019-06-27T12:48:24 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvIRsDHFiis
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2019-06-27T13:32:20 < Steffanx> Music by jly ... damn this makes me emotional
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2019-06-27T13:51:55 < kakimir> :o
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2019-06-27T20:26:06 < englishman> FLIR is still selling the E8. is there anything better out there for $3-5k?
2019-06-27T20:26:46 < englishman> seek shotpro is $700 lol nice
2019-06-27T20:28:25 < englishman> with USBC
2019-06-27T20:31:18 < aandrew> FLIR is in my hometown now
2019-06-27T20:32:02 < aandrew> they moved into the old aeryon building
2019-06-27T20:33:09 < aandrew> oh, I'm mistaken
2019-06-27T20:33:12 < aandrew> flir bought aeryon
2019-06-27T20:33:30 < aandrew> bought 'em for $200m
2019-06-27T20:33:34 < englishman> nice
2019-06-27T20:33:39 < englishman> they bought point Grey too
2019-06-27T20:33:42 < englishman> and extech
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2019-06-27T23:53:09 < aandrew> ok here's a weird one
2019-06-27T23:53:14 < aandrew> I've been fighting this all fucking day
2019-06-27T23:53:29 < aandrew> stm32f756. ethernet and spi5-attached-fpga
2019-06-27T23:53:39 < aandrew> ethernet is up and running, ping telnet allt hat fun stuff
2019-06-27T23:54:08 < aandrew> if I load the bitstream on to the fpga over spi, ethernet stops working (stm32 can't see traffic from LAN, but LAN sees STM32 (I see an ARP announce when I plug in the cable for example)
2019-06-27T23:54:14 < aandrew> completely 100% reproducible
2019-06-27T23:54:42 < aandrew> tried initializing the fpga before, wenbt over all my IO to make sure I wasn't stomping on anything, perhpas something weird where the FPGA loader routine undid some of the AF mapping... nada. all looks fine
2019-06-27T23:55:00 < aandrew> out of frustration I started commenting out bits of non-fpga and non-ethernet code
2019-06-27T23:55:13 < aandrew> I just happen to turn off the icache/dcache... fucker starts working with fpga loaded
2019-06-27T23:55:28 < aandrew> when I enable dcache, the shit stops if the FPGA was loaded
2019-06-27T23:55:35 < aandrew> but here's the weirder part
2019-06-27T23:57:36 < aandrew> with dcache disabled, I'm getting some odd delays on ethernet and pinging shows that the lwip stack seems to be waiting for more data before responding... every OTHER ping request I get two responses; the delayed one and then the most recent one
2019-06-27T23:58:55 < aandrew> the size of the ping request doesn't matter. ping -s 1000 is the same as ping -s 56
--- Day changed Fri Jun 28 2019
2019-06-28T00:09:24 < Thorn> I'm now afraid to use f7 or h7 after all the horror stories from here
2019-06-28T00:11:20 < specing> dongs: I need your expert advice
2019-06-28T00:11:34 < specing> How much does it really cost to ship a few kilos outa china?
2019-06-28T00:11:45 < aandrew> specing: he's not here right now but I can help: use windows 10, it's the best. and use keil, it's pro
2019-06-28T00:12:25 < specing> >_<
2019-06-28T00:12:49 < specing> I can't even run windows here :)
2019-06-28T00:12:56 < specing> hardware does not support it :)
2019-06-28T00:16:57 < englishman> another quality zyp install https://vredd.it/files/old_electricians_used_a_tupperware_box_as_a_weatherproof..._in_all_my_years_i_have_never_seen_this_before-xxnuwqfn2s631.mp4
2019-06-28T00:17:49 < englishman> f4 has 4 crippling errata, f7 has 7 crippling errata, ergo f0 is perfect
2019-06-28T00:18:24 < englishman> specing: depends to where and how and what's in it
2019-06-28T00:20:44 < specing> englishman: a bicycle hub motor
2019-06-28T00:20:52 < specing> englishman: to EU
2019-06-28T00:21:16 < englishman> dhl express?
2019-06-28T00:21:25 < PaulFertser> aandrew: sounds like http://lwip.100.n7.nabble.com/Problem-running-lwip-on-cortex-M7-with-D-cache-enabled-td31302.html
2019-06-28T00:21:52 < specing> englishman: E.g. https://www.elecycles.com/mxus-hub-motor-250w-front-or-rear-electric-bike-motor.html
2019-06-28T00:22:01 < specing> "Shipping cost around: 47$ to 123$ delivery to Slovenia"
2019-06-28T00:22:11 < englishman> sounds right
2019-06-28T00:23:22 < specing> ...
2019-06-28T00:23:31 < englishman> plus your tax when it arrives
2019-06-28T00:24:22 < emeb_mac> aandrew: big fun w/ F7 caches.
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2019-06-28T00:27:40 < specing> englishman: utterly insane
2019-06-28T00:27:58 < kakimir> hello nightline32
2019-06-28T00:28:29 < kakimir> shit rally is complete for now
2019-06-28T00:30:12 < englishman> how so
2019-06-28T00:31:39 < kakimir> shit rally is never over but it has pauses for other jubbs to be performed
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2019-06-28T00:33:26 < kakimir> counter says 1000cubic meters this time
2019-06-28T00:34:31 < kakimir> catphish: howe is your amiga is it workings yet?
2019-06-28T00:34:58 < catphish> kakimir: that depends which amiga you're talking about :)
2019-06-28T00:35:11 < kakimir> A2000
2019-06-28T00:35:14 < kakimir> ?
2019-06-28T00:35:25 < catphish> kakimir: i fixed up my amiga 3000 successfully, yes :)
2019-06-28T00:35:41 < catphish> kakimir: unfortunately once it was fixed, i quickly got bored and sold it
2019-06-28T00:35:53 < kakimir> is it worth good money?
2019-06-28T00:36:07 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c700:d26:d002:62a9:400f:a715] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2019-06-28T00:36:09 < catphish> kakimir: amigas sell for crazy money
2019-06-28T00:36:53 < catphish> though i sold mine at cost because i'd rather people got to enjoy these things instead of hoarding them
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2019-06-28T00:37:17 < kakimir> yes
2019-06-28T00:37:48 < catphish> cost me 200 GBP broken, i sold it for the same
2019-06-28T00:39:22 < kakimir> did you test Amiga ESC demos?
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2019-06-28T00:43:31 < catphish> i ran one demo to test the limits of the audio / video, worked great
2019-06-28T00:43:48 < kakimir> which one?
2019-06-28T00:44:35 < catphish> kakimir: https://i.imgur.com/K2vY1Bw.mp4
2019-06-28T00:45:02 < kakimir> ofc. state of art
2019-06-28T00:45:32 < catphish> you know your amigas :)
2019-06-28T00:45:59 < aandrew> PaulFertser: yep I was just on that site
2019-06-28T00:46:25 < catphish> kakimir: anyway, it worked, i tested a few games on it, but they didn't really do anything for me :(
2019-06-28T00:46:29 < catphish> so i sold it on
2019-06-28T00:46:58 < aandrew> I wassss convinced that my problem had something to do wwith the FPGA screwing with the lines but as soon as I disabled dcache and things changed I knew that was a red herring
2019-06-28T00:47:35 < PaulFertser> Must have been madly confusing.
2019-06-28T00:48:12 < aandrew> I'm *guessing* that loading 120kB of fgpa bitstream over SPI allowed the RAM and cache views of the ethernet buffers to do funny things
2019-06-28T00:48:51 < aandrew> that still doesn't make a lot of sense because if anything that would have made it better since all that SPI data would have evicted anything from the cache
2019-06-28T00:50:26 < PaulFertser> https://nuttx.org/doku.php?id=wiki:howtos:port-drivers_stm32f7 looks like a useful read
2019-06-28T00:57:56 < aandrew> indeed, thanks
2019-06-28T00:57:58 < aandrew> I didn't see that one
2019-06-28T00:58:04 < catphish> kakimir: i was interested in implementing an amiga or other 68k computer in fpga but fear i lack the skills / dedication :)
2019-06-28T01:01:02 < aandrew> yep, the HAL driver has no mention of anything cache related
2019-06-28T01:01:07 < aandrew> no alignment, nada
2019-06-28T01:01:13 < aandrew> wonder if the newer version of the driver does
2019-06-28T01:01:40 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFL3jS7Tn4c youtube timemachine back to year 2013
2019-06-28T01:01:47 < kakimir> Amiga demo this one
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2019-06-28T01:11:09 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDXnvg0rWIo then the kaki musics pick of the night
2019-06-28T01:11:28 < kakimir> real VHS effect
2019-06-28T01:11:34 < kakimir> *artifact
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2019-06-28T01:30:56 < kakimir> Lössnus
2019-06-28T01:37:04 < kakimir> Ultrasauce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVUzPwmjSHw and black metal for you
2019-06-28T01:45:52 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
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2019-06-28T02:07:21 < bitmask> someone fucking robbed a tire off my car and fucked it all up in the process
2019-06-28T02:07:28 < bitmask> can anything go right for once?
2019-06-28T02:11:06 < kakimir> pics
2019-06-28T02:14:41 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@94.11.204.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2019-06-28T02:15:38 < bitmask> I forgot to take some, I will later but theres no real point, it  just looks like the car was jacked up and two tires removed, 
2019-06-28T02:20:47 < kakimir> why not all of them?
2019-06-28T02:22:42 < PaulFertser> bitmask: wtf, where did that happen? I know people used to have custom nuts on wheels during the USSR times.
2019-06-28T02:23:43 < bitmask> just parked on my fucking street.  looks like they had trouble with the second tire, or someone came , but they only got away with one tire but they took 8 lug nuts and they were supposed to be the special lug nuts I think that require a key
2019-06-28T02:24:34 < PaulFertser> Is that in the USA?
2019-06-28T02:24:37 < bitmask> yea
2019-06-28T02:25:10 < PaulFertser> Nuts
2019-06-28T02:25:16 < bitmask> its a pretty ghetto town, not terrible but not very nice, a pretty big immigrant town so I guess thats my why gf's family chose it, I gotta get out of here
2019-06-28T02:25:42 < PaulFertser> My motor bike was kinda damaged yesterday. It looked like someone was trying to rip off the ignition coil from under the tank.
2019-06-28T02:26:38 < PaulFertser> It doesn't make any sense at all, the ignition coil costs 10 bucks and is readily available in local shops.
2019-06-28T02:27:26 < PaulFertser> But I'm in fucking russia so shit like that is to be expected I guess.
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2019-06-28T02:28:03 < Laurenceb> suppp
2019-06-28T02:28:17 < bitmask> so pissed man, I have min insurance too so I dont know if something like that is even covered
2019-06-28T02:28:23 < bitmask> ugh dont tell lb :P
2019-06-28T02:28:30 < aandrew> PaulFertser: I had no idea you were in russia
2019-06-28T02:28:32 < Laurenceb> based /r/the_donald has been b&, what will my fellow migapedes do about this?
2019-06-28T02:28:39 < Laurenceb> erm I mean magapedes
2019-06-28T02:29:55 < PaulFertser> aandrew: and all the "sane countries" are treating me like a criminal just because of that, require mandatory fingerprinting to get a stupid visa. Just because my country is stupid.
2019-06-28T02:30:01 < Laurenceb> Make Israel Great Again!
2019-06-28T02:31:18 < PaulFertser> bitmask: what did the police say?
2019-06-28T02:31:54 < bitmask> its 7pm and I really dont feel like spending all night with cops so I'm gonna wait til tomorrow
2019-06-28T02:32:10 < aandrew> PaulFertser: shitty
2019-06-28T02:34:02 < aandrew> mind you 10y ago when I got my nexus (trusted traveller) card I was fingerprinted and they (nicely) did a thorough inspection of my car
2019-06-28T02:35:51 < PaulFertser> But this is an opt-in for those who wants to pass borders a bit faster or something like that, right?
2019-06-28T02:39:07 < aandrew> correct
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2019-06-28T03:39:26 < Laurenceb> every house should be stormed at one point and have their first born either killed or at least wounded, maybe then they would learn respect for the police and not do stupid shit
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2019-06-28T03:41:21 < kakimir> you forgot to put green text on Laurenceb
2019-06-28T03:41:24 < Laurenceb> ikr
2019-06-28T03:42:22 < kakimir> streets are wild there?
2019-06-28T03:42:33 < Laurenceb> in muricaland yes
2019-06-28T03:43:07 < kakimir> are you in muricalands now?
2019-06-28T03:43:27 < Laurenceb> >be me >first trip to muricaland >in bus talking to driver, he is telling me about the town >"there is a po-lice officerr who hides in that there bush to look for crime"
2019-06-28T03:44:14 < Laurenceb> >lulwut cool story bro >police officer stands up in middle of bush >start laughing >"dont let him see you laughing he will shoot us"
2019-06-28T03:44:15 -!- gsi__ [~gsisig@x4db6b309.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-06-28T03:44:33 < Laurenceb> and he was telling the truth
2019-06-28T03:44:48 < qyx> did he shoot you?
2019-06-28T03:45:04 < Laurenceb> no but he was a murimutt cop so he would have
2019-06-28T03:45:34 < Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver
2019-06-28T03:50:23 < qyx> now I know where are the CSI scenes from
2019-06-28T03:50:25 < qyx> they are real
2019-06-28T03:51:42 < Laurenceb> >The natural habitat of the gaijin hunter is the sweaty, sticky, and overpriced clubs and pubs of Roppongi. They can be identified by the density of their makeup and the vibrance of their plumage. Engage them in friendly conversation and buy them drinks. Once the last train leaves at 1 am, invite the beast back to the private hotel room you booked which just so happens to be within walking distance.
2019-06-28T03:51:49 < Laurenceb> interdasting greentext
2019-06-28T03:56:41 < rajkosto> what LDO can deliver 3.0v from 3.1v
2019-06-28T03:57:56 < Laurenceb> quite a few
2019-06-28T03:57:59 < Laurenceb> check TI
2019-06-28T03:58:18 < englishman> a series schottky
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2019-06-28T03:59:17 < Laurenceb> https://mobile.twitter.com/TimmyUk/status/1144114263012925440/photo/1
2019-06-28T04:01:00 < Laurenceb> https://mobile.twitter.com/Nathan018318/status/1144217382392598529?p=v
2019-06-28T04:01:53 < Laurenceb> https://mobile.twitter.com/Nathan19437/status/1143842576556052480
2019-06-28T04:02:29 < Laurenceb> >/cow/ has relocated to twitter  not sure I like this timeline
2019-06-28T04:03:33 < rajkosto> well i have 2 LDO on this pcb 
2019-06-28T04:03:35 < rajkosto> labeled MBFAX
2019-06-28T04:03:41 < rajkosto> can i swap them around ? will their output voltage be the same
2019-06-28T04:03:44 < Laurenceb> google them then
2019-06-28T04:03:48 < rajkosto> no results for MBFAX
2019-06-28T04:04:24 < rajkosto> i think the one that was driving higher load is dead
2019-06-28T04:04:33 < Laurenceb> hmm any other markings?
2019-06-28T04:06:36 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-06-28_03-06-23_WAQHHcdU4.jpg
2019-06-28T04:07:03 < Laurenceb> oh wow deepnudes has been opensored
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2019-06-28T04:07:43 < Laurenceb> hmm not very useful info on those regs, maybe check ti for something equivalent
2019-06-28T04:08:08 < rajkosto> but same marking should be same output voltage ?
2019-06-28T04:08:12 < rajkosto> and same chip
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2019-06-28T04:09:55 < Laurenceb> not really
2019-06-28T04:10:28 < Laurenceb> see if there is more info elsewhere on the board?
2019-06-28T04:12:40 < rajkosto> to say "yo this is exact model of ldo?"
2019-06-28T04:16:12 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@90.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2019-06-28T04:17:29 < qyx> if they are marked equally they either 1. have equal fixed output voltage 2. have both adjustable output voltage depending on the passives around
2019-06-28T04:17:41 < qyx> so probably you can swap them if it helps
2019-06-28T04:18:51 < qyx> or not as Laurenceb said
2019-06-28T04:23:45 < rajkosto> yeah they are both the same
2019-06-28T04:24:44 < rajkosto> 3.1->2.8
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2019-06-28T05:50:58 < rajkosto> need SOT-23-5 LDO with fixed 3.0V output, <100mV dropout, that is ceramic capacitor-only stable, and has EN pin
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2019-06-28T06:25:34 < dongs> rajkosto: literally anything?
2019-06-28T06:25:41 < dongs> 3.0 limits stuff tho
2019-06-28T06:25:49 < dongs> most are 3.3 or need ADJ for 3.0
2019-06-28T06:25:51 < dongs> or too expensive
2019-06-28T06:27:29 < dongs> god damn lunix retards
2019-06-28T06:27:38 < dongs> why is tehre libusb-0.1 and 1.0 that is STILL being shipped
2019-06-28T06:28:41 < dongs> and which one should a normal person use
2019-06-28T06:28:50 < qyx> because too much software relies on the old one
2019-06-28T06:28:52 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2019-06-28T06:28:52 < qyx> probably
2019-06-28T06:28:59 < rajkosto> 1.0
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2019-06-28T06:29:23 < dongs> libusb_control_transfer()
2019-06-28T06:29:25 < dongs> what api is this?
2019-06-28T06:29:26 < dongs> 0.1 or 1.0
2019-06-28T06:29:37 < rajkosto> dongs, shoudlnt tons of them have 0.1v step voltages
2019-06-28T06:29:46 < dongs> rajkosto: lolno
2019-06-28T06:29:57 < rajkosto> the diodes inc ones ive looked at most have
2019-06-28T06:30:29 < qyx> dongs: first google hit says 1.0
2019-06-28T06:30:46 < dongs> rajkosto: https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Low-Dropout-Regulators-LDO_SC6206B-65Z5-3-0V_C94023.html you can thank me later
2019-06-28T06:31:34 < dongs> jk but hwatever there's like 60 hits for "3.0V LDO"
2019-06-28T06:31:36 < dongs> on lcsc
2019-06-28T06:31:39 < dongs> knock youreslf out
2019-06-28T06:31:55 < dongs> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Low-Dropout-Regulators-LDO_RT9193-30GB_C50004.html
2019-06-28T06:31:59 < dongs> this is my favorite
2019-06-28T06:32:15 < rajkosto> i have that one in 3.3
2019-06-28T06:32:19 < dongs> yep
2019-06-28T06:32:22 < dongs> and looks like it exists in 3.0
2019-06-28T06:32:31 < rajkosto> but muh dropout is 220mV there
2019-06-28T06:32:38 < dongs> rip.
2019-06-28T06:32:55 < dongs> why do y ou need it to be so low?
2019-06-28T06:33:07 < rajkosto> 3.1 -> 3.0
2019-06-28T06:54:55 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
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2019-06-28T07:43:51 < dongs> why the fuck is windows hidint .nigger files now???
2019-06-28T07:44:25 < Ultrasauce> year of the linux desktop
2019-06-28T07:50:19 < mawk> the file isn't hidden dongs ?
2019-06-28T07:50:29 < mawk> windows hides it only because it has a point
2019-06-28T07:56:25 < dongs> what the fuck since when does gcc not able to read shit liek #include "cocks\file.h"
2019-06-28T07:56:30 < dongs> i thoughtthis shit was universal
2019-06-28T07:56:32 < dongs> holy shit
2019-06-28T07:56:44 < dongs> ridiculous
2019-06-28T08:17:23 < qyx> dongs discovering the world
2019-06-28T08:24:21 < ds2> normal people should not use libusb :D
2019-06-28T08:34:39 < rajkosto> https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NTA4151P-D.PDF why the fuck this shit so expensive
2019-06-28T08:35:56 < dongs> > onsemi
2019-06-28T08:36:05 < dongs> also what, why
2019-06-28T08:36:13 < dongs> is 'gate zener" part important?
2019-06-28T08:36:15 < rajkosto> zener on gate and embedded resistor
2019-06-28T08:36:16 < rajkosto> yes
2019-06-28T08:36:24 < dongs> thats why its expenswive
2019-06-28T08:39:45 < rajkosto> normal mosfet burns out as soon as soldered into circuit (not even turned on the circuit)
2019-06-28T08:39:47 < rajkosto> this one works
2019-06-28T08:40:00 < dongs> so your circuit is trash
2019-06-28T08:40:09 < rajkosto> nope
2019-06-28T08:40:12 < dongs> yes?
2019-06-28T08:40:19 < dongs> what is it for even
2019-06-28T08:40:25 < dongs> such low A, such shitty spec
2019-06-28T08:40:29 < dongs> nothign special about it
2019-06-28T08:40:32 < dongs> other htan special retard price
2019-06-28T08:40:41 < rajkosto> happens even if i disconnect all the legs from the circuit
2019-06-28T08:40:49 < rajkosto> (the burning out)
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2019-06-28T08:41:35 < rajkosto> high radiation in the air
2019-06-28T08:58:54 < Steffanx> What do normal people use ds2?
2019-06-28T09:01:42 < dongs> geez how hard is it to find a non-retarded libusb example of async bulk transfer that just receives data without pauses
2019-06-28T09:01:48 < dongs> all i see is halfbroken shit
2019-06-28T09:02:13 < dongs> all i wanna do is like make a thread that shits out buffers with pre-submitted transfers in a loop and queues more on completion
2019-06-28T09:02:18 < dongs> this is like 10 lines of shit using cyapi
2019-06-28T09:03:00 < rajkosto> you actually used cyusb ?
2019-06-28T09:03:21 < rajkosto> why, when winusb has been preferred on cypress devices since it came out
2019-06-28T09:04:50 < dongs> i used cyusb in production for like 10 years
2019-06-28T09:04:57 < dongs> across something like 10 different devices, zero issues
2019-06-28T09:05:03 < dongs> i would never use libusb on windows obv
2019-06-28T09:05:07 < dongs> so it was never my target
2019-06-28T09:05:28 < dongs> rajkosto: when cyapi was first used > 10 years ago there was no winusb
2019-06-28T09:06:03 < rajkosto> yes but when i started doing it after like a month, WinUSB came out
2019-06-28T09:06:13 < dongs> irrelevant
2019-06-28T09:06:15 < rajkosto> so cyusb was only for first prorotype
2019-06-28T09:06:15 < dongs> cyapi works 
2019-06-28T09:06:20 < dongs> libusb doesnt
2019-06-28T09:08:45 < rajkosto> i only used libusbK
2019-06-28T09:08:51 < rajkosto> which works with WinUSB driver on windows
2019-06-28T09:08:54 < dongs> what is that yet another fucking retarded shit
2019-06-28T09:08:54 < ds2> Steffanx: proper kernel USB driver
2019-06-28T09:09:07 < dongs> so now theres libusb 0.1, 1.0, and K
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2019-06-28T09:10:28 < dongs> https://github.com/libusb/libusb/tree/master/examples
2019-06-28T09:10:31 < dongs> absolutely fucking terrible
2019-06-28T09:10:37 < dongs> these exampels are literally all trash
2019-06-28T09:10:52 < dongs> there are no examples of how to actually do something properly
2019-06-28T09:10:59 < dongs> just interfacing with random devices with no comments in them
2019-06-28T09:11:02 < dongs> ah, opensores
2019-06-28T09:11:14 < dongs> but gotta have that fucking GPL header
2019-06-28T09:12:01 < rajkosto> lol most of ezusb.c is parsing hex and bin files
2019-06-28T09:13:24 < dongs> right??
2019-06-28T09:13:25 < dongs> where is fucking shit like
2019-06-28T09:13:25 < dongs> example-control-transfer.c example-bulk-transfer-async.c example-whatever-the-fuck.c
2019-06-28T09:13:25 < dongs> not some_random_shit_device.c
2019-06-28T09:13:25 < dongs> with no explanation
2019-06-28T09:13:26 < rajkosto> > linux
2019-06-28T09:13:26 < rajkosto> > async
2019-06-28T09:13:26 < dongs> yeah im dreaming
2019-06-28T09:13:26 < dongs> i know it can be done tho cuz ive seen it
2019-06-28T09:13:41 < rajkosto> you dont even have to use libusb you can open kernel files directly and manipulate them
2019-06-28T09:13:48 < dongs> fuck off please
2019-06-28T09:13:59 < dongs> in the forest of "none of the shit works"
2019-06-28T09:13:59 < rajkosto> prepare your own URBs
2019-06-28T09:14:08 < dongs> i'd like to rule out at least ONE broken thing
2019-06-28T09:14:10 < dongs> yea no
2019-06-28T09:14:28 -!- ka6sox [ka6sox@nasadmin/ka6sox] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2019-06-28T09:16:26 < rajkosto> '/dev/bus/usb/{:0>3d}/{:0>3d}'.format(self.dev.bus, self.dev.address), os.O_RDWR
2019-06-28T09:16:28 < rajkosto> do it
2019-06-28T09:16:47 -!- drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has joined ##stm32
2019-06-28T09:16:52 < dongs> i dont even use devfs you fucking faggot
2019-06-28T09:17:01 < rajkosto> IOCTL_NR_SUBMIT_URB
2019-06-28T09:17:02 < dongs> or udev or jewdev or whatever the nigger is the newfag shit
2019-06-28T09:17:12 < rajkosto> doesnt matter its in there
2019-06-28T09:17:15 < dongs> mknod or fuckoff
2019-06-28T09:20:29 -!- ka6sox [ka6sox@nasadmin/ka6sox] has joined ##stm32
2019-06-28T09:21:18 -!- con3 [~kvirc@ml.sun.ac.za] has joined ##stm32
2019-06-28T09:27:38 < mupfwrk> nigger? newfag? jewdav? are you guys serious? What is this here?
2019-06-28T09:27:46 < mupfwrk> Hello con3
2019-06-28T09:28:25 < con3> hey mupfwrk :)
2019-06-28T09:29:13 < mupfwrk> Nice to see you around. :)  Apparently it's a small network after all.
2019-06-28T09:29:31 < qyx> this is a classical dongstalk
2019-06-28T09:30:38 < mupfwrk> This is racist bullshit. No more, no less.
2019-06-28T09:32:28 < mupfwrk> It doesn't belong in a channel like this one.
2019-06-28T09:33:01 < qyx> welcome to stm32
2019-06-28T09:33:04 < rajkosto> das raysis
2019-06-28T09:33:27 < mupfwrk> qyx if this is what you consider a welcome, I will leave in no time for sure.
2019-06-28T09:34:14 < con3> yeah mupfwrk I'm in a lot of channels :) 
2019-06-28T09:35:16 < qyx> see, you either have to accept it or quit not accepting it, I thing there are no more possiblities, dongs is fgt racist-wise, but ok stm32-wise
2019-06-28T09:35:33 < qyx> ask Steffanx, he knows.
2019-06-28T09:35:53 < con3> ^ pretty much my experience so far
2019-06-28T09:36:21 < qyx> and he is being regularly triggered by non working lunices or opensores
2019-06-28T09:36:25 < Ultrasauce> and when he takes it too far you can take revenge by suggesting the use of foss
2019-06-28T09:37:07 < mupfwrk> What he wrote above is way too far.
2019-06-28T09:37:11 < mupfwrk> And not funny.
2019-06-28T09:37:16 < mupfwrk> Not at all.
2019-06-28T09:37:25 < qyx> meh
2019-06-28T09:37:31 < mupfwrk> Anyway
2019-06-28T09:37:37 < mupfwrk> Guess I'm a person with principles after all. Good bye.
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2019-06-28T09:37:54 < Ultrasauce> see i told you guys this shit would be happening
2019-06-28T09:38:04 < con3> so...what did he write?
2019-06-28T09:39:00 < dongs>  < mupfwrk>  It's annoying because the text on the balls is harder to read.
2019-06-28T09:39:06 < rajkosto> "bunch of nigger faggots using kike-cad"
2019-06-28T09:39:11 < con3> ah
2019-06-28T09:39:57 < con3> actually want to look into kicad
2019-06-28T09:40:05 < qyx> so, what part is related? is he a kicad developer?
2019-06-28T09:40:52 -!- [7] [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2019-06-28T09:43:35 < dongs> libusb: error [reap_for_handle] reap failed error -1 errno=14
2019-06-28T09:43:36 < dongs> haha.
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2019-06-28T09:44:33 < zyp> rape failed
2019-06-28T09:45:44 < dongs> more like lunix failed
2019-06-28T09:47:40 < PaulFertser> dongs: nope libusbK is an alternative driver on windows, kinda like WinUSB but different.
2019-06-28T09:48:44 < PaulFertser> dongs: libusb-0.1 is a very old API, there's no reason to even remember anything about it
2019-06-28T09:49:08 < dongs> great.
2019-06-28T09:49:15 < dongs> that doesnt change the fact that whatever the current api is, is garbage
2019-06-28T09:49:22 < dongs> and tehre are no useful examples that actually showcase said api
2019-06-28T09:49:34 < dongs> iam not interested in hwo to read shit from some fingerprint scanner that only one lunix developer has
2019-06-28T09:51:29 < PaulFertser> dongs: what is unclear about http://libusb.sourceforge.net/api-1.0/ , what feature are you actually interested in?
2019-06-28T09:52:02 < dongs> PaulFertser: simple setup + execution of a looped async bulk transwer
2019-06-28T09:52:08  * antto gives dongs a pill for brain relaxation
2019-06-28T09:52:10 < dongs> so submit, callback w/buffers in a thread
2019-06-28T09:52:21 < dongs> basic usage of the 'async' api 
2019-06-28T09:52:56 < dongs> all examples i found so far are just polling shit in a while (1) loop lmao
2019-06-28T09:52:57 < dongs> and the actual shit doesnt work
2019-06-28T09:54:40 < PaulFertser> dongs: async is often more complicated, do you really need to integrate it in some main event loop or something? Can't you just do it in sync in another thread?
2019-06-28T09:55:15 < dongs> uh
2019-06-28T09:55:18 < dongs> have you ever done any usb shit
2019-06-28T09:55:29 < dongs> you cant just poll bulk shit in another thread without pre-queueing shit / async
2019-06-28T09:55:31 < dongs> because youll lose data
2019-06-28T09:55:55 < dongs> i have a buffer of like ~10 50k buffers on windows with cyapi
2019-06-28T09:56:12 < antto> put a bucket under the thread, to collect the data that falls off
2019-06-28T09:56:13 < dongs> i queue them all up then run a thread that fills/swaps the buffers around
2019-06-28T09:57:00 < dongs> libusb_handle_events_completed() blocks..
2019-06-28T09:57:01 < PaulFertser> dongs: well, http://libusb.sourceforge.net/api-1.0/group__libusb__asyncio.html explains how to do it async with callbacks etc, why are you looking for examples instead of just reading the manual?
2019-06-28T09:57:03 < dongs> holy shit waht the fuck lol
2019-06-28T09:57:11 < dongs> PaulFertser: "explains"?
2019-06-28T09:57:17 < dongs> its fucking autogenerated doxygen cancer
2019-06-28T09:57:25 < dongs> there's nothign there of acutal "docs" just dumb functions listed and their args
2019-06-28T09:57:44 < antto> don't you love doxygen
2019-06-28T09:58:05 < PaulFertser> dongs: doxygen generates docs based on what people write in doxygen-style comments. And in this case they added plenty of explanations, not just the function arguments listed.
2019-06-28T09:58:30 < PaulFertser> You can try reading from "Transfer abstraction" header.
2019-06-28T09:58:42 < Steffanx> Do not involve me qyx. I had nothing to do with this.
2019-06-28T10:00:16 < Steffanx> Is see dongs more as a comedian, he doesn't mean what he says. He just want to trigger people
2019-06-28T10:00:53 < antto> Steffanx lemme clean up your pink glasses
2019-06-28T10:01:14 < Steffanx> Whoa and antto is alive
2019-06-28T10:01:29 < Steffanx> Wb
2019-06-28T10:03:24 < antto> still don't know why i'm sitting here
2019-06-28T10:04:06 < Steffanx> You like my pink glasses obviously
2019-06-28T10:04:13 < antto> there are a few quality folks here, maybe that's why
2019-06-28T10:04:30 -!- R2COM [~R2COM@ip68-3-184-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit []
2019-06-28T10:05:03 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip68-2-71-85.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-06-28T10:05:19  * antto puts that on the scales, and on the other side of the scales put all the sh*t talking and bad language
2019-06-28T10:06:00 < Steffanx> Tu
2019-06-28T10:06:05 < antto> dongs is pushing teh fragile equilibrium
2019-06-28T10:06:06 < Steffanx> Ty*
2019-06-28T10:07:40 < qyx> Steffanx: I read invoke
2019-06-28T10:08:30 < Steffanx> Provoke.
2019-06-28T10:08:41 < qyx> hah
2019-06-28T10:09:12  * PaulFertser read the actual conversation that triggered mupfwrk , lol'd irl
2019-06-28T10:09:32 < jadew> I thought it was just one line
2019-06-28T10:11:45 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-cdb8d954.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2019-06-28T10:13:13 < PaulFertser> It's kinda curious how "lol" became so over-used that it's not automatically implying "irl" anymore. 
2019-06-28T10:13:59 < jadew> I've heard people say lol in real life without actually laughing
2019-06-28T10:14:13 < antto> i always picture it that way
2019-06-28T10:14:13 < jadew> lol, with a straight face
2019-06-28T10:14:19 < antto> saying "lol"
2019-06-28T10:15:14 < dongs> what did he get triggered over, again?
2019-06-28T10:15:27 < dongs> oh my libusb rant
2019-06-28T10:15:29 < dongs> well wahtever
2019-06-28T10:15:30 < antto> sadly i can't say ";P~" in real life
2019-06-28T10:15:39 < dongs> so yeah
2019-06-28T10:15:41 < dongs> not working
2019-06-28T10:15:56 < jadew> antto, I say it sometimes in my sleep, when I'm tired
2019-06-28T10:15:59 < PaulFertser> dongs: have you spotted the explanations finally?
2019-06-28T10:16:01 < jadew> I get ~ all over my pillow
2019-06-28T10:16:20 < antto> wut'cha doin dongs? you ess beeing?
2019-06-28T10:16:50 < antto> asyncing?
2019-06-28T10:17:01 < dongs> yeah.
2019-06-28T10:19:41 < dongs> fill, submit. start thread. thread does handle_events(). callback function never called, thus it never restarts the transfer again.
2019-06-28T10:26:04 < PaulFertser> Do you specify a reasonable timeout?
2019-06-28T10:27:20 < dongs> haha, LUNIX ACTUALLY FUCKING DIED
2019-06-28T10:27:22 < dongs> in the vm
2019-06-28T10:27:50 < dongs> oh, and killed vmware while at it too
2019-06-28T10:27:52 < dongs> nice.
2019-06-28T10:28:01 < dongs> thank fuck im not doing this on real hardwware
2019-06-28T10:29:02 < PaulFertser> Is vmware really that shitty that it can be taken down by a libusb transfer? Oh my.
2019-06-28T10:29:59 < dongs> lunix is what got trashed completely
2019-06-28T10:30:07 < dongs> it crashed without even a kernel panic
2019-06-28T10:31:04 < PaulFertser> I'd rather say it was vmware that crashed and obviously a kernel can't do anything inside a crashed VM.
2019-06-28T10:33:55 < qyx> now can a random os kill a proper hypervisor
2019-06-28T10:35:46 < jadew> s/now/how/ ?
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2019-06-28T10:40:25 < dongs> haha its dead again
2019-06-28T10:41:06 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a01:e0a:198:e110:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-06-28T10:41:17 < zyp> dongs, what are you doing anyway?
2019-06-28T10:42:07 < dongs> zyp, transfering ~10mbit bulk from usb to pc.
2019-06-28T10:42:21 < dongs> using libusb on lunix, cuz it alread works on windows just fine
2019-06-28T10:43:12 < dongs> where can i set transfer size for libusb, my device won't complete trnsfers unless its set to 48128
2019-06-28T10:43:17 < dongs> i tihnk this is whats fucking it
2019-06-28T10:43:41 < zyp> can you pastebin your code?
2019-06-28T10:49:56 < dongs> its literally this
2019-06-28T10:49:58 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/0htFvo19.html
2019-06-28T10:50:14 < dongs> it just doesnt work
2019-06-28T10:51:15 < dongs> if I set transfer size to 512, it crashes vmware
2019-06-28T10:51:24 < dongs> if I set it to 48k like it need it to, it fials with retarded lbiusb errors
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2019-06-28T10:51:31 -!- mupfwrk [bc6f55be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.188.111.85.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-06-28T10:52:01 < dongs> this is CyAPI's SetXferSize
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2019-06-28T11:06:24 < dongs> yeah its not doing anywhere near 10mbit
2019-06-28T11:07:51 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a01:e0a:198:e110:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-06-28T11:10:58 < dongs> PaulFertser: found problem with stuck, i was passing too small buffer size to all the shit (wrong #define).
2019-06-28T11:11:07 < dongs> now its correct at 48128 and its drpoping packets like crazy.
2019-06-28T11:11:10 < zyp> haha
2019-06-28T11:11:19 < zyp> dropping?
2019-06-28T11:11:29 < zyp> bulk doesn't drop packets
2019-06-28T11:11:30 < dongs> yeah, as in, data is coming in faster than libusb's shitty thread can grab it
2019-06-28T11:11:34 < dongs> libusb does
2019-06-28T11:11:40 < dongs> in windows, i quue 10 buffers
2019-06-28T11:11:42 < dongs> of 48k
2019-06-28T11:11:46 < dongs> and swap them on completion
2019-06-28T11:11:58 < zyp> why don't you do that in libusb?
2019-06-28T11:12:06 < dongs> because i have no fucking idea how?
2019-06-28T11:12:51 < zyp> just submit several transfers before the first completes
2019-06-28T11:13:07 < dongs> yes, so where's common sense example code in libusb\examples folder that does this?
2019-06-28T11:13:34 < zyp> dunno, I just remember I did exactly this way back
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2019-06-28T11:26:58 < dongs> works
2019-06-28T11:26:59 < dongs> nice
2019-06-28T11:28:11 < antto> linux wins after all
2019-06-28T11:28:14  * antto runs
2019-06-28T11:28:18 < dongs> "wins"
2019-06-28T11:28:22 < antto> >:)
2019-06-28T11:29:00 < zyp> I did this with isochronous on macos, turned out libusb had a bug with FS iso on the macos backend
2019-06-28T11:29:06 < antto> i mean, it works, and there's no cortana.exe in it and the other M$ bullsh*t
2019-06-28T11:29:19 < zyp> so I fixed that and submitted a simple patch
2019-06-28T11:29:31 < zyp> and now libusb/AUTHORS turns up every time I google my name :p
2019-06-28T11:29:45 < antto> <congratulations.jpg>
2019-06-28T11:30:07 < jly> thankyou very much
2019-06-28T11:30:26 < antto> that's how linux gets better
2019-06-28T11:30:33 < zyp> I think it was like a five line patch or something and apparently that's my most widely recognized OSS contribution
2019-06-28T11:30:39 < jly> I should check the accumulator
2019-06-28T11:30:55 < antto> what are you accumulating, jly?
2019-06-28T11:30:59 < jly> 17
2019-06-28T11:31:00 < antto> anime?
2019-06-28T11:31:47 -!- rajkosto [~Rajko@cable-178-149-122-110.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2019-06-28T11:31:58 < jly> nah I don't know enough about anime to understand what it is
2019-06-28T11:32:29 < antto> i know some people that know a lot, and that's its own diagnosis tbh
2019-06-28T11:33:00 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: "lol" is like "hah" in dutch
2019-06-28T11:33:09 < jly> is this anime https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XndURdFvALs ?
2019-06-28T11:33:16 < Steffanx> Its an actual word "lol"
2019-06-28T11:33:22 < antto> i ain't opening it
2019-06-28T11:33:22 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: heh, nice :)
2019-06-28T11:34:27 < zyp> Steffanx, in norwegian it's also an adjective
2019-06-28T11:34:49 < dongs> holy shit git line endings shit is such a fucking mess
2019-06-28T11:35:03 < dongs> im just copying .git between lunix and windows because i cant stand using vi to edit files
2019-06-28T11:35:07 < zyp> haha
2019-06-28T11:35:07 < dongs> and it fucks everything up anyway
2019-06-28T11:35:17 < dongs> -               return;
2019-06-28T11:35:18 < dongs> +               return 1;^M
2019-06-28T11:35:22 < dongs> disgusting
2019-06-28T11:35:22 < zyp> do you have CRLF endings in your windows shit?
2019-06-28T11:35:25 < dongs> i dont knwo
2019-06-28T11:35:36 < zyp> IIRC ^M is CR
2019-06-28T11:36:22 < zyp> also, fuck source files with CR in them :p
2019-06-28T11:48:32 -!- con3 [~kvirc@ml.sun.ac.za] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.9.2 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/]
2019-06-28T12:10:48 < antto> why use vi.. there are other text editors
2019-06-28T12:11:23 < antto> for source code i'd use my IDE, or geany if it has to be a "simple" editor
2019-06-28T12:12:21 < antto> a few times i got tricked into launching either vi, vim, or emacs, i don't remember which one.. that h0rr0r, i can't even figure out how to close it >:/
2019-06-28T12:15:59 < dongs> "my ide"
2019-06-28T12:16:02 < dongs> you mean literally what im doing
2019-06-28T12:16:05 < dongs> just editing the shit in vstudio
2019-06-28T12:16:21 < antto> yes, eggscept, Code::Blocks
2019-06-28T12:16:26 < dongs> yea no
2019-06-28T12:16:36 < antto> no but yes
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2019-06-28T12:16:59 < antto> vstudio is kinda microsoft-ish
2019-06-28T12:17:07 < dongs> it also works
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2019-06-28T12:17:24 < dongs> how does anyone get anything done on lunix wwhen their ides have no code complete/intellisense/etc type shti
2019-06-28T12:17:31 < dongs> i dont wanna lookup arguments to every fucking function each time 
2019-06-28T12:17:41 < dongs> even if I wrote it im not gonna remember the shit for > 200 functions
2019-06-28T12:17:42 < antto> mine has
2019-06-28T12:18:01 < dongs> reset high-speed USB device number 2 using ehci-platform more lunix aids
2019-06-28T12:18:16 < dongs> actually getting this when my shit is plugged into arm box
2019-06-28T12:18:29 < dongs> i havent even opened the thing
2019-06-28T12:22:29  * antto is kicading https://i.imgur.com/WyGUoty.png
2019-06-28T12:23:48 < dongs> is that midi
2019-06-28T12:23:54 < antto> yiz
2019-06-28T12:24:14 < antto> and dinsync
2019-06-28T12:24:22 < dongs> is that opensores
2019-06-28T12:24:51 < dongs> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_sync
2019-06-28T12:24:55 < antto> well, that is what i'm working on, so far it's not been decided
2019-06-28T12:24:56 < dongs> roland'd
2019-06-28T12:24:59 < antto> yez
2019-06-28T12:25:26 < dongs> isnt kikecad like GPL?
2019-06-28T12:25:28 < dongs> if you make something in it
2019-06-28T12:25:30 < dongs> you must opensores it
2019-06-28T12:25:43 < antto> uh.. like.. no
2019-06-28T12:25:46 < dongs> lol
2019-06-28T12:25:49 < antto> pls
2019-06-28T12:26:07 < dongs> the joke.jpg is that nobody would use kikecad for a commercial product that didnt need to be opensored
2019-06-28T12:26:15 < antto> linux is GPL too, doesn't mean you cant draw a painting in gimp and call it yours
2019-06-28T12:26:29 < antto> dongs i use kicad at the job
2019-06-28T12:26:51 < antto> it's a huge improvement over the "EDA" that was used before that
2019-06-28T12:27:07 < antto> (a cracked version of sprintlayout)
2019-06-28T12:27:36 < dongs> that thing is like 50 eur
2019-06-28T12:27:41 < dongs> how the fuck can your workplace NOT afford that
2019-06-28T12:27:52 < dongs> i can understand why they'd make you use opensores tho :)
2019-06-28T12:27:55 < antto> IMO it's not worth those 50 euro
2019-06-28T12:28:07 < dongs> absolutely
2019-06-28T12:28:11 < antto> that sh*t doesn't even have schematics
2019-06-28T12:28:22 < antto> like, you literally mspaint your board
2019-06-28T12:28:29 < dongs> Highlights
2019-06-28T12:28:30 < dongs> Extensive component library
2019-06-28T12:28:38 < antto> rrrrright
2019-06-28T12:28:42 < dongs> *any* eda that claims this is a huge red flag
2019-06-28T12:28:43 < dongs> because
2019-06-28T12:28:56 < dongs> 1) you should be making your own shit
2019-06-28T12:29:07 < dongs> 2) anything they could possibly include would be standard shit like R/c/leds/wahtever
2019-06-28T12:29:24 < qyx> what about no.
2019-06-28T12:29:34 < qyx> in kicad I learned not to bother with standard shit
2019-06-28T12:29:39 < antto> i can't be bothered to make absolutely every footprint myself
2019-06-28T12:29:42 < qyx> there are all stm32s for example
2019-06-28T12:29:51 < antto> pls, like stupid things like resistors and sh*t
2019-06-28T12:30:01 < dongs> you onl need to make them once
2019-06-28T12:30:21 < antto> someone did, with nice scripts
2019-06-28T12:30:35 < antto> i wouldn't have done it so good
2019-06-28T12:30:57 < dongs> scripts... yeah ok
2019-06-28T12:32:16 < dongs> so how do you draw schematics for shit-layout
2019-06-28T12:32:19 < dongs> do you just not?
2019-06-28T12:32:19 < antto> qyx in kicad4 the libraries were still very chaotic, there were some old stuff plus new stuff and the kicad library convention was either being changed or starting to take effect
2019-06-28T12:32:36 < antto> dongs you don't
2019-06-28T12:32:43 < antto> i think it supports netlists
2019-06-28T12:32:47 < dongs> haha
2019-06-28T12:33:01 < dongs> its like thse dudes who keep sending me .dxf files 
2019-06-28T12:33:04 < antto> basically, you run that and mspaint together a board
2019-06-28T12:33:04 < dongs> to convert to pcb
2019-06-28T12:33:09 < dongs> and i charge them $200 each time
2019-06-28T12:33:29 < antto> yeah, you could as well use inkscape instead of sprintlayout
2019-06-28T12:33:42 < dongs> they actually draw this shit in like autocad or somethign
2019-06-28T12:33:46 < dongs> what retards
2019-06-28T12:33:50 < antto> btw, there is a project for an plugin/extension for pcb drawing x_x
2019-06-28T12:33:53 < antto> scary
2019-06-28T12:34:02 < dongs> in dinkscape?
2019-06-28T12:34:08 < dongs> its been years since i tried it
2019-06-28T12:34:10 < antto> yes
2019-06-28T12:34:14 < dongs> last i looked the windows version came with like 9000 dlls
2019-06-28T12:34:28 < dongs> libfuckoff.so.1.3.2
2019-06-28T12:34:46 < antto> well, the opensource world needs a better vector drawing app still
2019-06-28T12:35:07 < dongs> hah its in windows 10 app store
2019-06-28T12:35:10 < antto> inkscape has a bunch of issues.. like not having a proper bucket fill algorithm
2019-06-28T12:35:29 < antto> it loads slow too
2019-06-28T12:35:40 < dongs> i bet, all those 9000 dlls need loading
2019-06-28T12:36:09 < antto> for most other things i need, there are gud enough programs available on linux
2019-06-28T12:36:21 < antto> some are even MUCH better than what i had on crapdows
2019-06-28T12:36:48  * antto recommends linux to mr dongs
2019-06-28T12:36:51 < dongs> haha... inkscape comes with THREE copies of tcl
2019-06-28T12:36:59 < dongs> tcl8, tcl8.6, tk8.6
2019-06-28T12:37:08 < dongs> oh its still using gtk
2019-06-28T12:37:10 < dongs> horrible
2019-06-28T12:37:18 < dongs> im gonna run it just for shits and giggles then shift-delete
2019-06-28T12:37:25 < antto> gee tea kay
2019-06-28T12:37:51 < dongs> haha default wheel action is scroll not zoom
2019-06-28T12:38:05 < dongs> looks awful on 4K screen
2019-06-28T12:38:06 < antto> yes, that annoying scroll
2019-06-28T12:39:10 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/pur3eye.png
2019-06-28T12:39:20 < dongs> that is an amazing filename
2019-06-28T12:39:24 < dongs> for a random one
2019-06-28T12:39:30 < dongs> pity it got wasted on such garbage
2019-06-28T12:39:53 < antto> did you draw that just now?
2019-06-28T12:39:58 < dongs> yes
2019-06-28T12:40:08 < antto> aww, you're an artist
2019-06-28T12:40:10 < dongs> double clicked insskape.exe and did that then screenshotted
2019-06-28T12:40:11 < dongs> thanks
2019-06-28T12:40:32 < antto> looks like overweight micky mouse
2019-06-28T12:40:43 < antto> ..confused about something
2019-06-28T12:40:45 < dongs> using the best tools for the job
2019-06-28T12:41:06 < antto> his head is not very attached to his body
2019-06-28T12:41:27 < dongs> yea well, you're not paying to have it attached either
2019-06-28T12:41:32 < jadew> is that why you wanted inkscape dongs?
2019-06-28T12:41:33 < dongs> so i think thats about as good as it gonna get
2019-06-28T12:41:51 < dongs> jadew: no i just wantd to see if its just as aids as it was 10 years ago when i alst tried it
2019-06-28T12:41:54 < dongs> it hasnt changed much
2019-06-28T12:42:10 < jadew> it's usable
2019-06-28T12:42:20 < dongs> Initial releaseNovember 2, 2003; 15 years ago
2019-06-28T12:42:25 < dongs> 15 years of gtk
2019-06-28T12:42:27 < antto> yeah, inkscape needs some work
2019-06-28T12:42:31 < jadew> you have to learn the shortcuts, so you can keep all those dockable windows closed
2019-06-28T12:42:35 < antto> or some alternative
2019-06-28T12:42:58 < antto> but kicad is grate!
2019-06-28T12:43:49 < jadew> all in all, that mickey mouse is impressive
2019-06-28T12:43:53 < jadew> I didn't know dongs was an artist
2019-06-28T12:43:56 < antto> yeah
2019-06-28T12:44:03 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/wwt4aLX.png the real problem is that this is what it looks like on 4K screen
2019-06-28T12:44:06 < antto> i give it 9.6 points
2019-06-28T12:44:13 < dongs> those icons are literally like 2-3mm square
2019-06-28T12:44:27 < jadew> antto, more like 21 circles
2019-06-28T12:44:28 < antto> o_O
2019-06-28T12:44:43 < antto> dongs isn't that monitor very very small?
2019-06-28T12:44:58 < dongs> ? i can see everything else on it just fine
2019-06-28T12:45:02 < dongs> excepte opensores
2019-06-28T12:45:07 < antto> except the pixels
2019-06-28T12:45:37 < antto> well, IMO pixels per inch should not go over a certain limit
2019-06-28T12:45:44 < antto> in your case, you're over the limit IMO
2019-06-28T12:45:53 < dongs> not with a proper OS i am not
2019-06-28T12:46:00 < antto> doesn't matter
2019-06-28T12:46:00 < dongs> in things that matter (like PCB cad) it will use the pixels
2019-06-28T12:46:30 < antto> these are gonna be pixels that are barely visible
2019-06-28T12:47:22 < antto> next year they gonna make 32K monitors with the same size as this one
2019-06-28T12:47:26 < antto> and u gonna buy it
2019-06-28T12:47:28 < antto> x_x
2019-06-28T12:47:51 < jly> wt
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2019-06-28T14:35:39 < mupf> https://twitter.com/mupfelofen/status/1144510450010341376?s=19
2019-06-28T14:36:06 < mupf> Leaving from this account now too. 
2019-06-28T14:36:11 < mupf> Bye. 
2019-06-28T14:36:17 -!- mupf [~micha@v22017094964653601.ultrasrv.de] has left ##stm32 ["WeeChat 2.4"]
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2019-06-28T14:43:49 < jadew> so that's what he was virtue signaling for
2019-06-28T14:44:19 < jly> lol
2019-06-28T14:47:13 < jadew> not to mention he made some unforgivable assumptions for an engineer
2019-06-28T14:47:37 < jadew> he ran on the assumption that dongs is not black, gay and a jew
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2019-06-28T14:49:12 < jadew> (which for all we know, he is)
2019-06-28T14:49:30 < jly> this is true
2019-06-28T14:51:23 < jadew> Cracki, are you there?
2019-06-28T14:51:29 < jly> yes
2019-06-28T15:09:14 < Steffanx> Hah better educate your fellow german, Cracki 
2019-06-28T15:13:10 < qyx> this is how the world works apparently, tell shit about things all around
2019-06-28T15:13:43 < jadew> not passive aggressive at all
2019-06-28T15:14:12 < qyx> and with a modified log
2019-06-28T15:14:33 < jadew> what did he change?
2019-06-28T15:16:11 < qyx> this is in the comments https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zHM4ptZg4S/
2019-06-28T15:16:38 < jadew> you're in there too
2019-06-28T15:18:00 < qyx> yeah, becoming famous soon
2019-06-28T15:18:11 < jadew> if the mob comes for you, just tell them the truth
2019-06-28T15:18:17 < jadew> you were too afraid to speak up
2019-06-28T15:18:19 < Steffanx> And qyx had to mention me. The bastard
2019-06-28T15:19:43 < jly> rofl
2019-06-28T15:20:05 < Steffanx> And where is Dekar, the fellow channel owner when you need him
2019-06-28T15:20:27 < Steffanx> He was the "freedom of speeeeech" guy
2019-06-28T15:20:49 < jadew> Steffanx, you're pinning this on him now?
2019-06-28T15:22:56 < Steffanx> Hell yeah.
2019-06-28T15:23:08 < jly> terry davis did it
2019-06-28T15:23:26 < aandrew> why does it not surprise me that dongs has defined a file extension .nigger
2019-06-28T15:24:18 < Steffanx> He does?
2019-06-28T15:24:29 < jly> ARM - angry racist mob
2019-06-28T15:25:24 < aandrew> dongs: yes, libusb examples are all bad. I did some workon it a while ago, maybe I can help
2019-06-28T15:26:39 < Steffanx> Zyp has some basic examples written in python
2019-06-28T15:27:43 < englishman> fuck, millenials coming in here to bitch about words
2019-06-28T15:29:19 < zyp> yeah, I guess since today is "dongs does stuff he hates"-day, python would be a welcome addition
2019-06-28T15:30:07 < englishman> yes god what an awful language
2019-06-28T15:30:57 < englishman> not inherently imo just how popular it has become has made a simple and versatile scripting language do things it was never meant to do in retarded ways
2019-06-28T15:31:49 < englishman> haha ubuntu paste
2019-06-28T15:32:54 < englishman> anyone have some thermal camera recommendations for electronics shit in 2019
2019-06-28T15:33:12 < jadew> thermal expert
2019-06-28T15:33:13 < englishman> getting a seek shotpro to see if the fov and focal length are ok
2019-06-28T15:33:56 < jadew> is that a new sensor in there?
2019-06-28T15:33:56 < englishman> that rings a bell
2019-06-28T15:34:01 < englishman> is it just cores?
2019-06-28T15:34:14 < jadew> no, they have one that adds to the phone
2019-06-28T15:34:27 < jadew> or what do you mean by core?
2019-06-28T15:34:54 < englishman> like mipi interface
2019-06-28T15:35:12 < englishman> I think I have signed NDA with thermal expert
2019-06-28T15:35:20 < englishman> because I was looking for cores
2019-06-28T15:35:52 < jadew> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/thermal-imaging-gallery/
2019-06-28T15:35:55 < englishman> loooking for something with a screen and out of the box ready. to replace old e4 hax
2019-06-28T15:36:32 < jadew> I don't know how the new seeks are, but the old ones sucked
2019-06-28T15:36:36 < aandrew> IIRC I had async libusb working just fine in linxu (and windows)
2019-06-28T15:36:45 < aandrew> 2.5Gbps in each direction, sustained for hours
2019-06-28T15:36:57 < englishman> well where were you at 3am
2019-06-28T15:37:01 < englishman> clearly not chatting
2019-06-28T15:37:07 < aandrew> yes
2019-06-28T15:37:13 < aandrew> and you guys were a bunch of chatty Kathys
2019-06-28T15:37:21 < aandrew> had like 8 pages of scrollback
2019-06-28T15:37:22 < englishman> as a result some soft millenial lunix fag got ~offended~
2019-06-28T15:37:33 < aandrew> oh? who'd we piss off last night?
2019-06-28T15:37:54 < englishman> some guy who felt it right and just to complain about words on his screen
2019-06-28T15:38:27 < aandrew> https://twitter.com/mupfelofen/status/1144510450010341376?s=19 that guy I assume
2019-06-28T15:38:40 < englishman> the type of chatter to enter a channel, immediately complain, and act surprised when noone cares
2019-06-28T15:40:15 < aandrew> wtf, mupf didn't say *anything* before posting that
2019-06-28T15:41:20 < englishman> in what way was it shitty jadew
2019-06-28T15:41:39 < aandrew> oh it was way earlier
2019-06-28T15:41:44 < aandrew> I see it now
2019-06-28T15:42:05 < jadew> englishman, very noisy, I made a little program for it and managed to get clean images out, but it required letting the camera to stabilize thermally first
2019-06-28T15:42:40 < jadew> I still use it to document my stuff, but if I'd buy one again, I'd get something different
2019-06-28T15:42:42 < jadew> let me find some images
2019-06-28T15:43:34 < karlp> I had async working with pyusb too, or python-libusb, but it was ~same perf as synch pyusb with big transfer buffers.
2019-06-28T15:44:03 < englishman> oh I will def be emailing my thermal expert contact
2019-06-28T15:44:10 < aandrew> ah mupf was the timer sync guy
2019-06-28T15:44:11 < englishman> too bad they are all microusb lol
2019-06-28T15:44:43 < jadew> you can get an adapter
2019-06-28T15:44:48 < englishman> with different lenses!!!! holy shit
2019-06-28T15:44:50 < englishman> awesone
2019-06-28T15:44:51 < jadew> that's what I use for my seek now
2019-06-28T15:45:01 < jadew> right, they have interchangeable lenses
2019-06-28T15:46:15 < jadew> englishman, what the phone was putting out at that time: http://188.27.5.74/stuff/seek/seekthermal-phone.png
2019-06-28T15:46:21 < jadew> (I think it's a bit better now)
2019-06-28T15:46:31 < englishman> what resolution?
2019-06-28T15:46:41 < jadew> this is what I managed to get: http://188.27.5.74/stuff/seek/ThermalView2.png
2019-06-28T15:46:49 < jadew> this is what I managed to get: http://188.27.5.74/stuff/seek/ThermalView1.png
2019-06-28T15:47:11 < jadew> http://188.27.5.74/stuff/seek/tv3.png
2019-06-28T15:47:13 < jadew> http://188.27.5.74/stuff/seek/tv4.png
2019-06-28T15:47:20 < jadew> so you can get something OKish, but still meh
2019-06-28T15:47:51 < jadew> 206 x 156
2019-06-28T15:47:54 < englishman> ah
2019-06-28T15:47:58 < englishman> hmm
2019-06-28T15:48:16 < englishman> with focus ring?
2019-06-28T15:48:24 < jadew> yeah
2019-06-28T15:48:25 < englishman> I guess I will wait for the demo
2019-06-28T15:48:38 < englishman> to see if it has improved in the shotpro
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2019-06-28T15:49:11 < englishman> thermal expert looks ok tho il get in touch with them thx
2019-06-28T15:49:40 < jadew> np
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2019-06-28T16:53:34 < dongs> https://www.electronicdesign.com/webcasts/power-your-next-product-any-usb-c-power-adapter
2019-06-28T16:53:55 < dongs> jadew: all those pics are 404
2019-06-28T17:14:41 < aandrew> dongs: I think that's a new record for you
2019-06-28T17:14:51 < aandrew> you scared off a guy with *one* line of text
2019-06-28T17:16:16 < Thorn> dongs vs SJWs: the game
2019-06-28T17:16:23 < Thorn> by ##stm32 studios
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2019-06-28T17:42:17 < Steffanx> Everyone seems to care but dongs. Heh.
2019-06-28T17:46:45 < jadew> dongs, they're back
2019-06-28T17:46:50 < aandrew> Steffanx: everyone seems to care about what?
2019-06-28T17:47:10 < con3> this channel seems on fire today 
2019-06-28T17:47:54 < jadew> the last two are with 30-60 minutes heatup time
2019-06-28T17:48:33 < aandrew> it usually gets lively when dongs is working on something and he's failing
2019-06-28T17:48:38 < con3> sounds like I missed a lot
2019-06-28T17:48:50 < aandrew> much entertainment is to be had, and a good 90% of the time some really hardcore embedded work comes out from it
2019-06-28T17:52:51 < con3> Anyone working on any cool projects recently?
2019-06-28T17:52:54 < Thorn> I rewrote my packet scheduler for the 2nd time :/
2019-06-28T17:53:18 < aandrew> con3: yep working on a really nifty one that is driving me nuts but good
2019-06-28T17:53:25 < jadew> con3, isn't everyone working on cool projects all the time?
2019-06-28T17:53:41 < con3> jadew: Doesn't feel like I am :( 
2019-06-28T17:53:53 < con3> aandrew: what are you building?
2019-06-28T17:54:08 < con3> but then again jadew I've still got a lot of learnin to do
2019-06-28T18:06:57 < englishman> dongs: literally the cypress EZ-PD Barrel Connector Replacement that you plug in and forget about? but they wont send me any documents about even under NDA?
2019-06-28T18:07:18 < englishman> every single fucking cypress product that exists is the very definition of "looks good on paper"
2019-06-28T18:07:33 < englishman> yes their BCR is fucking exactly what every single device maker wants to use
2019-06-28T18:07:49 < englishman> but you can't fucking buy it, can't fucking get devboards, can't even get a fucking footprint
2019-06-28T18:07:53 < englishman> fuck cypress in the ass
2019-06-28T18:08:49 < englishman> con3 im doing fpga for babies and make:rs because all my other projects now are boring as fuck
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2019-06-28T18:10:48 < englishman> also this is a fun project https://i.imgur.com/aBAkPTH.jpg
2019-06-28T18:11:36 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/2gScDyu.png
2019-06-28T18:12:10 < jadew> englishman is eating bio?
2019-06-28T18:12:16 < englishman> they are not organic
2019-06-28T18:12:21 < englishman> organic is pretty dumb sometimes
2019-06-28T18:12:21 < jadew> haha
2019-06-28T18:12:39 < jadew> ah, you mean what you're feeding them
2019-06-28T18:12:39 < Thorn> if not organic then mineral?
2019-06-28T18:13:09 < englishman> you could say they are "organic" but there is no certification
2019-06-28T18:13:31 < englishman> and that still means you can spray certain shit and feed them antibiotics etc
2019-06-28T18:15:33 < qyx> yay, we have 6 at parent's house
2019-06-28T18:16:25 < qyx> I also had organic tomatoes but they nearly died, I had to feed them with some NPK
2019-06-28T18:18:02 < qyx> but what, they have extraordinary huge legs
2019-06-28T18:26:13 < englishman> yes, these meat balloons have huge legs to support all the meat
2019-06-28T18:26:52 < englishman> biggest one last year was 14lb cleaned
2019-06-28T18:27:15 < englishman> they are 4 weeks old we will murder them in 8-10 weeks
2019-06-28T18:28:21 < Steffanx> aandrew:  that twatter sagw
2019-06-28T18:28:23 < Steffanx> Sagw
2019-06-28T18:28:30 < englishman> pwnd
2019-06-28T18:31:07 < Steffanx> Saga damn
2019-06-28T18:31:18 < Steffanx> Fat fingers 
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2019-06-28T18:32:38 < bitmask> any thoughts on delrin leadscrew nuts?
2019-06-28T18:43:20 -!- Hamilton [~Hamilton@unaffiliated/hamilton] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-06-28T18:43:39 < jpa-> bitmask: "they do what they claim"?
2019-06-28T18:45:30 < bitmask> what do they claim?
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2019-06-28T18:46:09 < jpa-> the datasheet specs?
2019-06-28T18:48:24 < Thorn> so my device (using homegrown events + timers) works like clockwork despite multiple rewrites and architecture changes. my coordinator (using freertos) froze for the 3rd time. (and I didn't capture the log from it for the 3rd time :/ )
2019-06-28T18:49:11 < specing> dongs: How much does it really cost to ship a few kilos outa china and into EU?
2019-06-28T18:49:18 < jpa-> so a device handling communication with one party is less prone to bugs than a coordinator between multiple devices?
2019-06-28T18:49:31 < jpa-> specing: by a ship?
2019-06-28T18:49:39 < specing> jpa-: I dont care
2019-06-28T18:49:47 < specing> lowest possible that still arrives in 3 months
2019-06-28T18:49:52 < specing> cheapest possible*
2019-06-28T18:50:13 < specing> cheapest possible that still arrives in less than 3 months*
2019-06-28T18:50:20 < Thorn> jpa-: it's the larval stage of a coordinator at this time. it does much less than the device.
2019-06-28T18:51:41 < jpa-> >larval stage    and you're surprised about the bug? ;)
2019-06-28T18:52:02 < Thorn> yes quite
2019-06-28T18:52:20 < Thorn> not much room for it
2019-06-28T19:10:57 < aandrew> englishman: I think I have to agree with you on cypress. PSoC is a great idea on paper but kind of shit in reality. FX3 works but is a pain in the ass. FX2LP is good but that is "old cypress"
2019-06-28T19:11:18 < aandrew> englishman: your livestock?
2019-06-28T19:11:21 < englishman> yes
2019-06-28T19:12:38 < aandrew> nice. I'd love to raise chickens but we have a forest full of coyotes right behind us
2019-06-28T19:12:57 < qyx> make a A-shaped fence
2019-06-28T19:13:01 < qyx> idk how is it called properly
2019-06-28T19:13:35 < rajkosto> aandrew, FX2LP is a pain in the ass if its anything more than a FIFO to a FPGA
2019-06-28T19:13:48 < aandrew> rajkosto: which is 99.999% what FX2LP is for
2019-06-28T19:13:53 < rajkosto> FX3 is way more customizable but still limited, you can at least do some processing on the data as it doesnt have to go through a 8051
2019-06-28T19:14:27 < aandrew> FX3 sucked balls. ARM7TDMI was slow and shitty, GPIF2 needed windows-only software which was godfuckingawful
2019-06-28T19:14:29 < karlp> jadew: your temporary links are fucking cancer
2019-06-28T19:14:46 < rajkosto> who cares about using windows only software ?
2019-06-28T19:14:48 < aandrew> yeah you can't do any real processing on the data unless it's slow enough for ARM7TDMI at which point why bother
2019-06-28T19:14:56 < rajkosto> isnt GPIF1 designer also a crappy windows app
2019-06-28T19:14:57 < rajkosto> does the job
2019-06-28T19:15:01 < jadew> karlp, try now
2019-06-28T19:15:15 < aandrew> rajkosto: well it's shit software full of bugs. just give me the fucking registers and examples and I'll do my own GPIF programming
2019-06-28T19:15:22 < aandrew> that's more or less what I ended up doing I think (been like 6 years)
2019-06-28T19:15:38 < rajkosto> its a complicated state machine with GPIF2
2019-06-28T19:15:43 < aandrew> yes
2019-06-28T19:15:48 < rajkosto> makes sense to do it in a gui
2019-06-28T19:15:51 < aandrew> just let me write it without trying to fucking use that software
2019-06-28T19:15:55 < aandrew> I remember hbow much of a nightmare it was
2019-06-28T19:16:12 < rajkosto> was fine for me, just some of the parameters were confusing
2019-06-28T19:16:44 < aandrew> they may have improved it since I used it
2019-06-28T19:16:48 < rajkosto> nah
2019-06-28T19:16:55 < rajkosto> i dont mind their eclipse repack though
2019-06-28T19:16:59 < rajkosto> it works at least
2019-06-28T19:17:01 < aandrew> uuuuuuuuugh
2019-06-28T19:17:05 < aandrew> that's enough to say fuck no from me
2019-06-28T19:17:22 < rajkosto> better than requiring you to buy 1998 style Keil for FX2
2019-06-28T19:17:26 < rajkosto> for more than 4K
2019-06-28T19:17:28 < aandrew> if eclipse is the answer you know you asked the WRONG fucking question to begin with
2019-06-28T19:17:40 < karlp> jadew: not trying now, closed them again, just don't paste bullshit links if you want to share, share.
2019-06-28T19:17:43 < jpa-> i wonder why cypress etc. mcu manufacturers don't just put a tiny real fpga there
2019-06-28T19:17:55 < karlp> because they have an 8051 for it instead?
2019-06-28T19:17:55 < rajkosto> isnt that was PSOC is
2019-06-28T19:18:01 < aandrew> jpa-: agreed. there was so much potential with PSoC5LP
2019-06-28T19:18:08 < rajkosto> it has configurable gateware and some adcs etc
2019-06-28T19:18:12 < jpa-> same for greenpak, it's almost there but with crappy software & just a bit too little flexibility
2019-06-28T19:18:16 < aandrew> give me like 256 *32 bit* UDBs instead of 16 8-bit ones
2019-06-28T19:18:30 < jpa-> rajkosto: almost, but not really in terms of usability
2019-06-28T19:18:53 < aandrew> the UDBs themselves were kind of cool. almost like a proto-shader in that each could run a very simple program
2019-06-28T19:19:22 < jpa-> psoc, greenpak etc. feel like "can i build this thing out of this blocks, let's put that there and hmm" instead of just "make me this" as you would with fpga
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2019-06-28T19:19:56 < rajkosto> fpga everywhere pls
2019-06-28T19:20:01 < rajkosto> just add one to every device
2019-06-28T19:20:03 < rajkosto> on all the pins
2019-06-28T19:20:18 < aandrew> one thing PSoC did do right was the IO routing
2019-06-28T19:20:30 < aandrew> with very few exceptions, you could put any signal on any pin
2019-06-28T19:20:37 < aandrew> and their analog stuff was pretty sound too IIRC
2019-06-28T19:21:19 < jpa-> EFM32 almost has that, but just a tiny bit too many exceptions that you always have to check
2019-06-28T19:21:23 < karlp> isn't that pretty much "everyone except stm32" these days?
2019-06-28T19:21:24 < jpa-> and also no logic to the routing numbers
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2019-06-28T19:58:22 < aandrew> heh 25th anniversary of freedos
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2019-06-28T20:13:37 < dongs> freeTURDS more like
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2019-06-28T20:49:42 < Cracki> jadew, thx for the highlight, much kekking
2019-06-28T20:49:54 < Cracki> btw I'm GAY
2019-06-28T20:50:26 < jadew> Cracki, I know, I wanted to hear your take on it
2019-06-28T20:50:47 < qyx> don't say that in a publicly logged channel
2019-06-28T20:51:04 < qyx> your words may appear on twatter
2019-06-28T20:52:46 < mawk> lol
2019-06-28T21:04:43 < Cracki> *barfing rainbows*
2019-06-28T21:05:07 < Cracki> brb reading what got his panties in a bunch
2019-06-28T21:09:00 < Cracki> first time I heard of someone having "grey balls"
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2019-06-28T21:26:46 < englishman> aandrew: we just bring them in before dark
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2019-06-28T22:44:43 < zyp> Cracki, congrats
2019-06-28T22:44:58 < Cracki> what'd I do now
2019-06-28T22:45:13 < zyp> idk
2019-06-28T22:47:16 < Cracki> here, kitteh with scratching post https://youtu.be/DpQnXzSL7No?t=290
2019-06-28T22:48:56 < Cracki> if the german shows up again, call him Kartoffel and talk about south africa
2019-06-28T22:49:29 < Cracki> kitteh looks satisfied
2019-06-28T22:52:29 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:6ba6:39f4:ab69:e25c:bd41] has joined ##stm32
2019-06-28T23:01:02 < qyx> lol kartoffel
2019-06-28T23:02:40 < Cracki> "Alman" works too. that's what self-hating germans call "typical germans", with absolutely zero self-awareness.
2019-06-28T23:07:13 < Cracki> according to one judgment, "Köterrasse" (race of dogs) is also very okay.
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2019-06-28T23:24:28 < Cracki> kitteh loves the torn up hole https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYl9JxIbn5Q
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2019-06-28T23:36:23 < kakimir> hello nightpump
2019-06-28T23:37:05 < kakimir> back to workshop>
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--- Day changed Sat Jun 29 2019
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2019-06-29T00:37:16 < jly> it seems the N counter exploded last evening resulting in a twitter incident
2019-06-29T00:37:38 < Steffanx> Yeah what happenes
2019-06-29T00:37:39 < Steffanx> D
2019-06-29T00:37:42 < jly> we all have to pack up and abandon this before the PC crew launch their twitter assault rifle
2019-06-29T00:38:30 < Cracki> invasion of the trigglypuffs
2019-06-29T00:38:49 < jly> I'm going to hide in somebody's basement until it blows over
2019-06-29T00:38:53 -!- kow__ [~iccy@135.0.26.54] has joined ##stm32
2019-06-29T00:39:49 < jly> OR i can become morbidly obese and scream HATE-SPEECH at everybody wherever I go
2019-06-29T00:39:59 < jly> + dye my hair blue 
2019-06-29T00:40:07 -!- kow_ [~iccy@135.0.26.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2019-06-29T00:41:09 < Cracki> apropos angry and colorful, the angry birds movie is about the colors black-red-gold (german flag) and about bearded pigs coming in ships, multiplying mysteriously, and stealing your eggs
2019-06-29T00:42:34 < Cracki> do you have an "1-hour channel idle" alert as well?
2019-06-29T00:43:20 < jly> I dont have the loicence
2019-06-29T00:45:24 < Cracki> britbong spoon loicenses are fatphobic
2019-06-29T00:46:50 < jly> They've all had too much RADIATION 
2019-06-29T00:53:46 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@90.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-06-29T01:07:55 < Laurenceb> shut it down?
2019-06-29T01:09:06 < Laurenceb> when is mupf getting us all v&
2019-06-29T01:09:44 < karlp> stahp
2019-06-29T01:10:45 < jly> the logs are being printed and circulated around the world as we speak
2019-06-29T01:11:01 < Laurenceb> keeek 
2019-06-29T01:11:08 < Laurenceb> inb4 shitredditsays arrives
2019-06-29T01:11:29 < jly> some say the amount of times nigger has been said in this channel amounts to 1488
2019-06-29T01:11:44 < Laurenceb> I went there the other day, after all the wrongthink subreddits got b& they went after the left wing subreddits
2019-06-29T01:11:57 < Laurenceb> they are attacking literally anything not liberal
2019-06-29T01:12:22 < Laurenceb> >Capitalism is code for the jews
2019-06-29T01:15:13 < jly> this sounds like another day on the uhh.... inner net
2019-06-29T01:16:16 < jly> isnt that a favourable device
2019-06-29T01:18:26 < Cracki> who goes after left wing reddits? is there something to the left of mao?
2019-06-29T01:19:07 < effractur> so are there any microcontrollers that have a PCIe interface on there?
2019-06-29T01:19:16 < rajkosto> never
2019-06-29T01:19:21 < Cracki> so the liberals want concentration camps AND gulags now
2019-06-29T01:19:23 < rajkosto> there are fpgas that do
2019-06-29T01:19:30 < rajkosto> and there are SoC that have pci-e host controller
2019-06-29T01:19:36 < Cracki> effractur, if you define what raspberry pi 4 has as a microcontroller, then yes
2019-06-29T01:20:10 < effractur> Cracki: no as in something that does not run linux 
2019-06-29T01:20:27 < Cracki> if you have pcie, at least the dma should be fast enough to use it, so that gives you some lower bound on the chip's general performance
2019-06-29T01:21:07 < karlp> "does not run linux" "has pcie" 
2019-06-29T01:21:16 < karlp> like, what furcking world are you in where that's your requirement?!
2019-06-29T01:21:45 < Cracki> maybe go with an fpga+arm core thingy like the zynq?
2019-06-29T01:22:11 < effractur> Cracki: i am trying to not have to use a fpga
2019-06-29T01:22:12 < Cracki> those surely have pcie on the fpga side and some other bus to connect fpga and arm core
2019-06-29T01:22:19 < Cracki> what do you need this for
2019-06-29T01:22:49 < effractur> a flexible PCIe 3.0 packet generation platform
2019-06-29T01:22:54 < karlp> but cracki, those will run linux!
2019-06-29T01:22:55 < Cracki> cortex M might be tricky but plenty of cortex A should have pcie
2019-06-29T01:23:03 < karlp> all run linux too.
2019-06-29T01:23:27 < qyx> or freedos.
2019-06-29T01:23:29 < Cracki> why would you want to generate pcie THREE POINT OH PACKETS
2019-06-29T01:23:31 < karlp> indeed.
2019-06-29T01:23:42 < Laurenceb> Cracki: when they say "smash capitalism" they mean "smash jews", when they say "proletariat", they mean "masterrace"
2019-06-29T01:23:52 < Laurenceb> le reddit masterminds at work
2019-06-29T01:23:55 < Cracki> that sounds like you want a cheap fpga with the proper I/O peripheral
2019-06-29T01:24:01 < Cracki> kek
2019-06-29T01:24:12 < effractur> Cracki: because they have added some interesting features to the 3.0 spec
2019-06-29T01:24:19 < Cracki> get fpga
2019-06-29T01:24:19 < qyx> is cortex-a with linux and custom driver not an option?
2019-06-29T01:24:25 < Cracki> ^
2019-06-29T01:24:28 < karlp> no, must not run linux
2019-06-29T01:24:35 < qyx> ok. me quiet
2019-06-29T01:24:35 < Laurenceb> this is unironically what /r/smashhatesubreddits was saying
2019-06-29T01:24:44 < effractur> qyx: that could work but is not ideal
2019-06-29T01:24:45 < karlp> there's a sea of usermode networking for exactly these reasons too.
2019-06-29T01:24:58 < Cracki> you could run windows instead
2019-06-29T01:25:05 < jly> a real dog of sorts
2019-06-29T01:25:14 < Cracki> maybe vxworks or something has support too
2019-06-29T01:25:22 < Laurenceb> a pro rtos
2019-06-29T01:25:27 < Laurenceb> who would run such a thing
2019-06-29T01:25:32 < Cracki> or maybe nutterX
2019-06-29T01:25:55 < Laurenceb> everyone knows you need full lunix just to flash an led
2019-06-29T01:25:56 < Cracki> so your options are cortex a or fpga
2019-06-29T01:26:11 < qyx> oh finally I managed to disable otg mode on imx6
2019-06-29T01:26:21 < qyx> 2 hours
2019-06-29T01:26:53 < Laurenceb> we should make usb controlled machine guns so redditers can shoot each other over the nets
2019-06-29T01:27:06 < Cracki> random imx8 datashit lists "pcie 3.0"
2019-06-29T01:27:25 < qyx> yeah, both imx6 and imx8 have pcie
2019-06-29T01:27:50 < Cracki> maybe abuse this thing, it's a cortex R: https://www.marvell.com/storage/ssd/88ss1084-1100/
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2019-06-29T01:28:32 < emeb> anyone tried using the new 16-bit ADC on H7 parts?
2019-06-29T01:28:40 < Cracki> might have fixed function/device instead of general pcie
2019-06-29T01:28:48 < Cracki> 16 bit? sounds like sigma delta
2019-06-29T01:28:55 < emeb> Nope
2019-06-29T01:28:59 < Cracki> nope??
2019-06-29T01:29:02 < emeb> Just same old SAR thing
2019-06-29T01:29:06 < qyx> 16bit sar?
2019-06-29T01:29:07 < Cracki> huh
2019-06-29T01:29:08 < emeb> Just w/ 16 bit option
2019-06-29T01:29:16 < qyx> I only used 16bit sdadc on F373
2019-06-29T01:29:18 < Cracki> does it to integration or what
2019-06-29T01:29:24 < Cracki> *do
2019-06-29T01:29:27 < emeb> Not that I can see.
2019-06-29T01:29:33 < Cracki> interesting
2019-06-29T01:29:34 < qyx> so no hw oversampling?
2019-06-29T01:29:37 < emeb> It does have an oversampling option, but that's separate.
2019-06-29T01:29:37 < qyx> yeah
2019-06-29T01:29:42 < qyx> mhm
2019-06-29T01:30:05 < emeb> I've got an H7 nucleo board on the bench now - trying out ADC. 
2019-06-29T01:30:23 < emeb> Doesn't seem significantly better than F4/F7 ADCs which were pretty damned noisy
2019-06-29T01:30:33 < qyx> many msps?
2019-06-29T01:30:46 < Cracki> how much do you do to reduce noise? send everything to sleep?
2019-06-29T01:31:03 < emeb> Nah - can't afford to lose the CPU cycles for that.
2019-06-29T01:31:05 < Cracki> does the nucleo give the analog part a good supply?
2019-06-29T01:31:10 < emeb> Not really
2019-06-29T01:31:16 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-06-29T01:31:17 < emeb> just a ferrite bead + 0.1uf
2019-06-29T01:31:43 < Laurenceb> hmm
2019-06-29T01:31:59 < Laurenceb> later F4 ADC was as good as F1 ADC in my experience
2019-06-29T01:32:10 < emeb> Tried enabling the oversampler - actually seems to make things worse. :P
2019-06-29T01:32:12 < Laurenceb> but for all STM32 you need very good power supply design
2019-06-29T01:32:24 < Laurenceb> then it gives you very good performance
2019-06-29T01:32:44 < emeb> I've had good luck w/ F3 ADCs. F4 never impressed me.
2019-06-29T01:33:17 < Laurenceb> I get 10.5 ENOB at 1Msps
2019-06-29T01:33:33 < emeb> Laurenceb: what's your sekrit for "good power supply design"?
2019-06-29T01:33:47 < emeb> besides solid planes + lotsa decoupling.
2019-06-29T01:34:15 < Laurenceb> lipo - SEPIC to 3.6v - ferrites to LDOs - more ferrites - lots of caps - separate ground planes
2019-06-29T01:34:25 < Laurenceb> lots of hassle but works really well
2019-06-29T01:34:32 < Cracki> f3 is newer than f4, also designed for analog applications
2019-06-29T01:34:39 < emeb> Yep
2019-06-29T01:35:04 < Laurenceb> SEPIC on its own area of board with own ground plane
2019-06-29T01:35:45 < Laurenceb> I think I decreased output voltage to 3.5v for some applications with low dropout Ti regulators
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2019-06-29T01:36:13 < Cracki> how low drop out? if you feed them 3.6v, that's 0.3v of drop at most
2019-06-29T01:36:27 < emeb> Cool. My application doesn't need that - we've got good 5V supply.
2019-06-29T01:36:38 < Cracki> preferably more or else noise from the 3.6v might carry through?
2019-06-29T01:36:39 < Laurenceb> yeah you can get stuff thats ~0.1v over most operating conditions
2019-06-29T01:36:57 < Cracki> good to know
2019-06-29T01:37:18 < Laurenceb> transient response of the LDOs is also important
2019-06-29T01:37:31 < Laurenceb> iirc the TI "cap free" stuff was best
2019-06-29T01:37:46 < emeb> Right - choice of LDO in/out caps is key
2019-06-29T01:37:56 < Laurenceb> yeah
2019-06-29T01:38:02 < Laurenceb> and noise reduction pin cap
2019-06-29T01:38:03 < emeb> can't just slap a 100uf on there and expect great LDO performance.
2019-06-29T01:38:44 < Laurenceb> also guard areas of ground plane between noise generating areas of board and analogue stuff
2019-06-29T01:38:52 < emeb> But yeah - I can see getting ~10bit ENOB on F4/F7. My application usually wants a bit more.
2019-06-29T01:39:08 < emeb> We ended up using an external SPI ADC from ADI.
2019-06-29T01:39:11 < Laurenceb> at full sample rate?
2019-06-29T01:39:19 < Laurenceb> if so thats good
2019-06-29T01:39:23 < Laurenceb> ish
2019-06-29T01:39:27 < emeb> Works fine, but kinda expensive.
2019-06-29T01:39:56 < emeb> (like the ADC is about the same $ as the MCU)
2019-06-29T01:40:06 < Laurenceb> I got close to 18 bits effective at ~50 hz output rate from DSP
2019-06-29T01:40:18 < emeb> lots of filtering
2019-06-29T01:40:31 < Laurenceb> this was with my optical ofdm system
2019-06-29T01:40:35 < emeb> yup
2019-06-29T01:41:04 < Laurenceb> using the crazy timer based modulator system to tx
2019-06-29T01:41:31 < Cracki> 50 hz, ofdm, wat
2019-06-29T01:41:37 < Laurenceb> that was pretty cool, just DMA the data straight out
2019-06-29T01:41:39 < emeb> we needed ~30kHz sample rate on our ADC data.
2019-06-29T01:41:52 < emeb> so clean external was best option.
2019-06-29T01:42:02 < Laurenceb> Cracki: free space optical comms for air -> underwater
2019-06-29T01:42:03 < emeb> (16 chls too)
2019-06-29T01:42:20 < Laurenceb> Cracki: I used LEDs and photodiodes
2019-06-29T01:42:24 < Cracki> huh, underwater
2019-06-29T01:42:32 < Laurenceb> then ~20kHz modulation
2019-06-29T01:42:40 < Cracki> aha!
2019-06-29T01:42:42 < emeb> Wasn't that for measuring optical properties of skin?
2019-06-29T01:42:43 < Laurenceb> using OFDM with 8 subcarriers
2019-06-29T01:42:55 < Laurenceb> emeb: that was another application of the original system
2019-06-29T01:43:40 < Laurenceb> the carrier and IQ constellation stuff was all handled with 0 cpu, using timers and DMA (all the timers on F4 lol)
2019-06-29T01:43:40  * emeb remembers the crazy torture device pictures
2019-06-29T01:44:22 < emeb> so what kind of data rates did you get?
2019-06-29T01:44:27 < Laurenceb> then analogue filter to strip out the harmonics from the square wave
2019-06-29T01:44:50 < Laurenceb> about 1kbps
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2019-06-29T01:45:16 < emeb> cool
2019-06-29T01:46:12 < Laurenceb> it was resistant to ambient light flicker off the water and pulsing flourescent lights
2019-06-29T01:46:28 < Laurenceb> dunno if modified tv remote gear could have outperformed it tho
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2019-06-29T01:47:22 < Laurenceb> but fun exercise with timers
2019-06-29T01:47:44 < jly> that's okay
2019-06-29T01:48:08 < Laurenceb> lol babby shake team want babby sensors to run in the back of the wambulance with laptop on dashboard now
2019-06-29T01:48:16 < Laurenceb> now is this even possible
2019-06-29T01:48:22 < Laurenceb> guess I could use POE
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2019-06-29T01:48:52 < specing> babby shake team? Wtf?
2019-06-29T01:49:04 < Laurenceb> >imagine being this new
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2019-06-29T01:50:08 < Laurenceb> tried a 5m extension cable earlier, sensors were getting 3.2v
2019-06-29T01:50:12 < Laurenceb> thats not so good
2019-06-29T01:51:19 < emeb> that ambulance project seems to go on forever
2019-06-29T01:51:56 < Cracki> it goes for as long as there is funding
2019-06-29T01:52:03 < Cracki> so... a round number of years
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2019-06-29T01:52:15 < Cracki> then, junk yard
2019-06-29T01:52:34 < emeb> such is life in R&D
2019-06-29T01:53:48 < Laurenceb> yeah probably until next year, then the wambulance is literally going to the junk yard
2019-06-29T01:54:32 < Laurenceb> maybe I could modify a samsung galaxy S charge lead
2019-06-29T01:55:05 < Laurenceb> that can source 2.5A @ 5v from USBC on the laptop
2019-06-29T01:55:25 < Laurenceb> step up to 12v for the cable
2019-06-29T01:55:31 < Laurenceb> my orbital sides
2019-06-29T01:57:38 < emeb> use your OFDM system to send data from back to cab
2019-06-29T01:57:45 < Laurenceb> keek
2019-06-29T01:58:05 < Laurenceb> nah there is close to 50Mbps of data throughput
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2019-06-29T01:58:20 < emeb> meh - do data reduction at TX side
2019-06-29T01:58:50 < emeb> driver doesn't need to see 50Mbps - should keep eye on road.
2019-06-29T02:00:15 < Laurenceb> ikr, this whole project is daft
2019-06-29T02:00:25 < Laurenceb> simple way - two laptops, wifi and vnc
2019-06-29T02:00:32 < emeb> lol
2019-06-29T02:00:41 < emeb> that doesn't stimulate funding!
2019-06-29T02:02:49 < Laurenceb> or just use the cctv monitor already in the dash to check the sensors are flashing green
2019-06-29T02:03:29 < emeb> fiber optic light pipe from sensor LEDs to front
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2019-06-29T02:21:47 < Cracki> just put the babby in the driver's seat
2019-06-29T02:21:56 < Cracki> on the hood maybe
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2019-06-29T04:45:27 < dongs> shitusb doesnt work on windows huh
2019-06-29T04:48:04 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boBK7IQ@73.109.60.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2019-06-29T04:53:29 < Thorn> is this worth $237 with shipping https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32767583851.html
2019-06-29T04:53:46 < dongs> no
2019-06-29T05:03:35 < dongs> jk, its a piece of shit anyway in that style
2019-06-29T05:03:38 < dongs> so wahtever wroks
2019-06-29T05:04:01 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@90.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2019-06-29T05:04:37 < dongs> k got it to work. had to detach HID part of composite device
2019-06-29T05:04:40 < dongs> or else it kept opening it
2019-06-29T05:04:42 < dongs> lol opensores
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2019-06-29T05:19:07 < dongs> hmm its dropping packets like crazy haha
2019-06-29T05:19:20 < dongs> same shit it was doing when i was not queueing teransfers
2019-06-29T05:19:26 < dongs> opensores(tm)
2019-06-29T05:24:21 < mawk> one day you'll realize it's your prejudice against opensource that prevents you to operate opensource correctly
2019-06-29T05:24:24 < mawk> and you'll reach nirvana
2019-06-29T05:24:39 < mawk> and start grow a Stallman beard
2019-06-29T05:25:02 < Thorn> does nirvana imply cuddling with a naked RMS
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2019-06-29T05:28:53 < Cracki> you will eat each other's beard boogers and toenail parentheses
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2019-06-29T06:19:32 < dongs> shit
2019-06-29T06:19:42 < dongs> i renamed a file in ide and didn't rename in git, and made a bnch of hcanges
2019-06-29T06:19:46 < dongs> shit's lost isnt it?
2019-06-29T06:20:28 -!- pennTeller [~pennTelle@unaffiliated/pennteller] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2019-06-29T06:20:47 < englishman> apparently shitberreypi4 shorts the cc lines together with a single pulldown
2019-06-29T06:20:53 < dongs> yes
2019-06-29T06:20:56 < dongs> i saw that in schematic
2019-06-29T06:20:58 < dongs> was wondering wahts p with that
2019-06-29T06:21:09 < dongs> is that to signify it wants to draw max current?
2019-06-29T06:21:10 < dongs> or someshit
2019-06-29T06:21:12 < Thorn> dongs: git add old_file new_file
2019-06-29T06:21:13 < englishman> it means: incompatible with a bunch of supplies or cables
2019-06-29T06:21:22 < dongs> lmao
2019-06-29T06:21:25 < englishman> and not usbc spec
2019-06-29T06:21:42 < dongs> Thorn: how does that work
2019-06-29T06:21:49 < Thorn> very well
2019-06-29T06:21:56 < dongs> no i mean
2019-06-29T06:22:08 < dongs> i have shit.cpp (old file) shit.c (new file)
2019-06-29T06:22:09 < Thorn> make sure you enter the name of the deleted file correctly
2019-06-29T06:22:13 < dongs> i renamed early on, then made changs to .c
2019-06-29T06:22:22 < dongs> can i just use git rename in command line?
2019-06-29T06:22:34 < rajkosto> yes you can rename
2019-06-29T06:22:35 < dongs> er git mv or whatever
2019-06-29T06:22:41 < rajkosto> rename it back to original filename
2019-06-29T06:22:43 < rajkosto> then do git mv
2019-06-29T06:22:50 < dongs> ahh
2019-06-29T06:22:51 < rajkosto> it will tell it thats the same file
2019-06-29T06:22:54 < Thorn> git add shit.cpp shit.c is enough
2019-06-29T06:23:04 < Thorn> (one of which does not exist anymore)
2019-06-29T06:23:18 < englishman> oh yeah that connection is totally invalid
2019-06-29T06:23:26 < englishman> and fucks up a lot of supplies
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2019-06-29T06:23:41 < rajkosto> good jorb
2019-06-29T06:23:41 < englishman> really faggots, to save 1 fucking 5.1k resistor
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2019-06-29T06:23:44 < rajkosto> they saved 10 cents
2019-06-29T06:23:56 < englishman> when there is already 1 in bom
2019-06-29T06:25:21 < englishman> it doesnt work with apple usbC supplies, which actually use the spec
2019-06-29T06:25:22 < englishman> lol
2019-06-29T06:25:31 < dongs> fuckin awesome
2019-06-29T06:25:38 < rajkosto> why would you do it like this
2019-06-29T06:25:56 < englishman> if you are fucking retarded and didnt double click the FREE usb-c spec pdf
2019-06-29T06:26:06 < rajkosto> they could have kept microUSB
2019-06-29T06:26:14 < englishman> no microusb is retarded
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2019-06-29T06:26:17 < rajkosto> since it never goes above 5V
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2019-06-29T06:30:03 < mawk> where did you see this englishman ?
2019-06-29T06:30:28 < englishman> https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/schematics/rpi_SCH_4b_4p0_reduced.pdf
2019-06-29T06:31:03 < mawk> ah I thought someone blogged about it
2019-06-29T06:31:09 < mawk> be the first
2019-06-29T06:32:19 < rajkosto> there are 2 5k1 resistors tho
2019-06-29T06:32:26 < englishman> look closer noob
2019-06-29T06:32:34 < englishman> dont you hate it
2019-06-29T06:32:35 < rajkosto> problem is they shorted CC1 with CC2 ?
2019-06-29T06:32:41 < englishman> when retards put U2 in schematic
2019-06-29T06:32:46 < englishman> and dont put the FUCKING part number'
2019-06-29T06:32:54 < rajkosto> its NDA'd part number
2019-06-29T06:33:13 < englishman> yeah cc1 shorted to cc2 is a big big no no
2019-06-29T06:34:08 < rajkosto> i mean its obvious shitberry designers are rarted
2019-06-29T06:34:23 < englishman> i wonder where they copypasted it from
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2019-06-29T06:34:38 < mawk> why did they name DN and DP lines, there is OTG on that model ?.
2019-06-29T06:35:16 < mawk> ah yes apparently
2019-06-29T06:35:16 < mawk> cool
2019-06-29T06:37:00 < dongs> englishman: U2 is that mxl7003 or somesht thing
2019-06-29T06:37:04 < dongs> that smokes itself when you short 3v/5v
2019-06-29T06:37:11 < dongs> mxl7704
2019-06-29T06:37:22 < dongs> https://hackaday.com/2019/06/12/shorting-pins-on-a-raspberry-pi-is-a-bad-idea-pmic-failures-under-investigation/
2019-06-29T06:37:35 < dongs> pro engineering right there
2019-06-29T06:37:37 < dongs> you knwo whats funny
2019-06-29T06:37:41 < dongs> LT has an identical part
2019-06-29T06:37:43 < dongs> that doesnt smoke
2019-06-29T06:37:45 < dongs> but costs more of course
2019-06-29T06:37:51 < jly> lol
2019-06-29T06:37:51 < dongs> and doens't require proprietary voodoo settings
2019-06-29T06:38:11 < dongs> fuckign cheap niggers
2019-06-29T06:38:33 < englishman> maybe dont short 3v to 5v then
2019-06-29T06:38:43 < dongs> yeah well, thats the opensores suggestion
2019-06-29T06:38:51 < mawk> they have answers to that prepared in the article englishman 
2019-06-29T06:38:57 < mawk> you can't fight
2019-06-29T06:39:43 < englishman> you dongs, the cheapest asshole in teh channel that would 100% buy that part at half price if you had to make more than 100 of them, are complaining that those assholes making a $35 computer are cheap
2019-06-29T06:40:31 < englishman> hmm why would it smoke
2019-06-29T06:40:48 < englishman> is it really that one that smokes or something on the 3v rail
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2019-06-29T06:41:54 < englishman> I discussed this with Eben and he mentioned that the chip from Mouser isn’t actually a drop-in replacement for the one on the Raspberry Pi,
2019-06-29T06:43:14 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
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2019-06-29T07:07:25 < jly> buying a rPI
2019-06-29T07:14:57 < jly> did anyone??
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2019-06-29T07:19:08 < englishman> yeah i have a shitload from all those ARROW giveaways
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2019-06-29T07:23:11 < jly> nice nice
2019-06-29T07:23:15 < jly> you know what I did have one
2019-06-29T07:23:21 < jly> left it at the old business ROFL
2019-06-29T07:23:31 < jly> friend gave it to me for no good reason
2019-06-29T07:23:46 < jly> even had the cute little plastic case :~(
2019-06-29T07:25:55 < englishman> jly: im going to buy a bunch of boeing stock
2019-06-29T07:26:07 < englishman> they have again proven that they care more about money than safety
2019-06-29T07:26:16 < jly> sounds good to me
2019-06-29T07:26:20 < englishman> which means: great return on investment
2019-06-29T07:26:28 < jly> buy them during the crash, then they come back up right?
2019-06-29T07:26:52 < jly> I hear bitcoin is closer to recovery
2019-06-29T07:27:47 < englishman> never heard of it
2019-06-29T07:29:18 < jly> :}
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2019-06-29T07:32:53 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone have a suggestion for power consumption measurement for low-power devices (wearables, uA to mA range) that is usable by humans?
2019-06-29T07:33:46 < ColdKeyboard> uCurrent needs multimeter, I'm looking for something that is interfaced with PC via USB or something like that?
2019-06-29T07:39:51 < rajkosto> a PC USB Multimeter connected to uCurrent ;)
2019-06-29T07:50:36 < ColdKeyboard> Did anyone try this -> https://www.digikey.ca/products/en?WT.z_cid=sp_497_0928_buynow&Enterprise=44&lang=en&Vendor=497&mpart=X-NUCLEO-LPM01A ?
2019-06-29T08:04:21 < dongs> fuckin jews
2019-06-29T08:04:57 < dongs> ColdKeyboard: why not buy a proper bench multimeter
2019-06-29T08:05:27 < dongs> that ST thing looks cute
2019-06-29T08:05:29 < dongs> nA eh
2019-06-29T08:05:40 < ColdKeyboard> This one is interesting too -> https://www.qoitech.com/products
2019-06-29T08:06:21 < dongs> uh
2019-06-29T08:06:21 < dongs> no
2019-06-29T08:06:25 < dongs> 0.5uA resolution
2019-06-29T08:06:37 < jly> it's always them
2019-06-29T08:06:46 < dongs> that looks like some MAKE:R garbage
2019-06-29T08:07:19 < jpa-> $600 maker garbage
2019-06-29T08:07:27 < dongs> lmao is it 600$?
2019-06-29T08:07:28 < dongs> fuck off
2019-06-29T08:09:40 < jly> even iphones are cheaper
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2019-06-29T10:02:18 < dongs> fucking garbage
2019-06-29T10:09:34 < dongs> why is this shit so fucked. yesterday shitusb was working, today it doesnt
2019-06-29T10:09:38 < dongs> drops buffers with same code
2019-06-29T10:09:40 < dongs> ugh, garbage
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2019-06-29T10:28:57 < dongs> are fucking libusb transfers guaranteed to end in order they were submitted lol
2019-06-29T10:29:02 < dongs> because what teh fuck is going on here
2019-06-29T10:34:31 < zyp> I think so, but I wouldn't bother keeping track of the order they were submitted
2019-06-29T10:34:39 < zyp> I would just keep track of the order of callbacks
2019-06-29T10:34:59 < ds2> I don't think there is any guarantee order
2019-06-29T10:35:10 < ds2> it is up to you to sequence the urbs
2019-06-29T10:40:25 < jly> https://twitter.com/lauraolin/status/1144356098062897152
2019-06-29T10:40:28 < jly> is that alright>
2019-06-29T10:40:40 < qyx> ColdKeyboard: for $600 you could buy a proper bench multimeter able to sample ~1000s times a second, usb/gpib/whatever connected
2019-06-29T10:45:11 < qyx> otherwise the qoitech device looks interesting, probably worth $100 max
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2019-06-29T11:07:37 < jadew> what qyx said
2019-06-29T11:07:52 < jadew> and you'd have 100 pA resolution
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2019-06-29T11:08:35 < jadew> their site looks like make:r garbage too
2019-06-29T11:09:18 < jadew> but I'm not going to comment on the name, because it's very similar to my company's name :P
2019-06-29T11:09:30 < jadew> at least the english pronunciation is close
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2019-06-29T11:10:11 < jadew> I can't find a datasheet
2019-06-29T11:10:12 < jadew> wtf
2019-06-29T11:10:28 < jadew> oh, it's called "tech spec"
2019-06-29T11:10:31 < jadew> jeez...
2019-06-29T11:11:28 < jadew> ±(1% + 0.5 µA)
2019-06-29T11:12:45 < dongs> yeah absolute garbage lmao
2019-06-29T11:13:13 < dongs> wasnt there a stoner in here who made "oscilloscope" for ipads
2019-06-29T11:13:18 < dongs> he became millionaire off that shit
2019-06-29T11:13:23 < dongs> inside: psoc with 200ksps sample rate
2019-06-29T11:13:30 < dongs> ah maybe that was efnet
2019-06-29T11:13:31 < jadew> lol
2019-06-29T11:14:06 < dongs> https://www.oscium.com/oscilloscopes/imso-204 i tihnk thats v2
2019-06-29T11:14:12 < dongs> increased to 50msps
2019-06-29T11:14:42 < dongs> http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/oscium/oscilloscopes/imso-104.htm
2019-06-29T11:14:43 < dongs> that was v1
2019-06-29T11:14:46 < jadew> the software looks like garbage
2019-06-29T11:14:48 < dongs> and i think there was one before imso
2019-06-29T11:14:54 < dongs> just a scope
2019-06-29T11:14:57 < dongs> that was the shit with 200ksps
2019-06-29T11:17:36 < dongs> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Oscium
2019-06-29T11:17:37 < dongs> haha wat
2019-06-29T11:18:24 < dongs> totally not notable
2019-06-29T11:19:00 < jadew> how do you know he made millions tho?
2019-06-29T11:19:12 < dongs> he was on nirc
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2019-06-29T12:52:38 < Steffanx> Goodmorning boddax, how can we help you?
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2019-06-29T14:56:23 < dongs> i still cannot find any indication whether multiple queued usb transfers in libJEWsb will be called back in same sequence order
2019-06-29T14:57:23  * con3 starts drinking and coding
2019-06-29T15:01:32 < PaulFertser> dongs: I'd expect the word "queue" to imply that, why hesitations?
2019-06-29T15:01:42 < dongs> PaulFertser: because its not working , i dont know
2019-06-29T15:01:58 < dongs> i can't really prove its out of order but the data is broken
2019-06-29T15:02:21 < PaulFertser> dongs: you can use wireshark to capture and inspect usb traffic in a nice way
2019-06-29T15:02:41 < PaulFertser> https://wiki.wireshark.org/CaptureSetup/USB#Linux
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2019-06-29T15:05:05 < Steffanx> but sores.
2019-06-29T15:05:34 < jadew> dongs, for bulkin?
2019-06-29T15:05:41 < dongs> yea
2019-06-29T15:05:53 < jadew> if you process the data as you're getting it, it should be in order
2019-06-29T15:06:21 < jadew> IIRC when I did that I wasn't keeping track of which transfer is which
2019-06-29T15:06:29 < dongs> no, in order for libfailusb to not LOSE any data i'm queiing like 32 requests at a time and hten requeue them as they come in
2019-06-29T15:06:35 < jadew> I was just dumping the data any of them got, into my main buffer
2019-06-29T15:06:37 < jadew> worked fine
2019-06-29T15:06:49 < jadew> I know
2019-06-29T15:07:17 < jadew> I think they have an example on this, which works btw
2019-06-29T15:07:24 < jadew> or at least it worked several years ago
2019-06-29T15:07:26 < dongs> they actually dont
2019-06-29T15:07:36 < dongs> their 'examples' directory is everything but
2019-06-29T15:09:43 < Thorn> wait a second, how can it lose data if your device is working properly? all usb comms are completely master controlled
2019-06-29T15:10:06 < jadew> Thorn, if your device generates more data than you're reading, what should it do with it?
2019-06-29T15:10:07 < Thorn> s/master/host/
2019-06-29T15:11:21 < Thorn> it depends(tm). maybe you actually need iso rather than bulk
2019-06-29T15:11:57 < dongs> oh i should mention
2019-06-29T15:12:01 < dongs> this works fine on windows with cyapi
2019-06-29T15:12:11 < dongs> the problme is only with libusb on both lunix and windows
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2019-06-29T17:52:47 < qyx> zyp: could you ballpark estimate cortex-M throughput over USB CDC?
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2019-06-29T18:45:45 < dongs> like wut
2019-06-29T18:45:57 < dongs> shouldnt it be able to saturate fullspeed
2019-06-29T18:46:26 < dongs> i mean you didnt specify which m
2019-06-29T18:46:27 < dongs> m0?
2019-06-29T18:46:28 < dongs> m4?
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2019-06-29T18:56:15 < qyx> I mean ballpark, like eg "80MHz M4 is able to do 50mbps"
2019-06-29T18:56:31 < qyx> uh oh
2019-06-29T18:57:07 < qyx> I know 50 is more than a FS is able to handle
2019-06-29T19:01:42 < qyx> ok, F7, USB HS (ulpi), someone claims 2.1MB/s on the interwebs
2019-06-29T19:01:59 < qyx> using STs CDC class examples
2019-06-29T19:02:56 < qyx> another one, " I got working the STM32F7-DISC1 to a data rate to 6.3 MB/s"
2019-06-29T19:12:26 < jpa-> qyx: i can't see why CDC would be slower than any other USB bulk transfer (depending on host side of course)
2019-06-29T19:13:28 < jpa-> many CDC drivers probably don't pipeline host side requests, which will usually limit you to ~24MB/s
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2019-06-29T19:36:44 < Laurenceb> somewhere someone benchmarked PC OSs CDC speed using an FPGA system
2019-06-29T19:38:15 < Laurenceb> but I forgot the link doh
2019-06-29T19:38:25 < Laurenceb> Lunix was fastest, windoze slowest
2019-06-29T19:46:11 < mawk> is cdc the best for speed anyway ?
2019-06-29T19:46:47 < jpa-> no
2019-06-29T19:47:02 < jpa-> but it has the most portable API ;)
2019-06-29T19:47:32 < mawk> yeah
2019-06-29T19:51:15 < Laurenceb> https://imgoat.com/uploads/0e190d8267/218463.jpg
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2019-06-29T20:02:12 < Laurenceb> woah
2019-06-29T20:02:15 < Laurenceb> the Dave??
2019-06-29T20:02:40 < Dave_Elec> not EEVBLOG
2019-06-29T20:02:45 < Laurenceb> >Glastonbury Festival 2019 will cost £248 + £5 booking fee per ticket
2019-06-29T20:02:46 < Dave_Elec> but Hey
2019-06-29T20:03:01 < Laurenceb> tjq  ?
2019-06-29T20:05:22 < Laurenceb> the absolute state of Glastonbury
2019-06-29T20:05:56 < Laurenceb> >Stormzy in a bullet proof vest surrounded by middle class white people is what #glastonburyfestival2019 is all about.
2019-06-29T20:06:05 < Laurenceb> literally wut
2019-06-29T20:07:27 < Laurenceb> >pinning an 'open borders' banner to the £253 entrance fee border fence >define irony
2019-06-29T20:07:31 < Laurenceb> irl kekking
2019-06-29T20:12:33 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip68-2-71-85.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-06-29T20:15:50 < Laurenceb> serious lack of OC in here lads https://imgoat.com/uploads/0e190d8267/218465.jpg
2019-06-29T20:16:27 < dongs> allright
2019-06-29T20:16:39 < dongs> PaulFertser: so i confirmed it, i get SAME failure pattern on my known working good hardware
2019-06-29T20:16:44 < dongs> so its libusb
2019-06-29T20:16:48 < dongs> thats the only common thing when shit fails
2019-06-29T20:16:53 < dongs> same stuff works fine with cyapi
2019-06-29T20:20:18 < PaulFertser> dongs: have you tried looking at wireshark usb capture to see where exactly it goes wrong?
2019-06-29T20:21:05 < dongs> usb is clearly working
2019-06-29T20:21:13 < dongs> as i have 100% error free data with cyapi
2019-06-29T20:21:31 < qyx> maybe you are usin the api in a wrong way
2019-06-29T20:21:41 < dongs> hm, i see a patch to hidapi to do multiple libusb transfers. it allocates + submits them from the read thread
2019-06-29T20:21:43 < qyx> always start from yourself
2019-06-29T20:21:48 < dongs> i allocate+submit on main thread, and poll on read thread
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2019-06-29T20:31:26 < disposabled[m]> If I power a bluepill with an stlink, will the 5v pin have 5v?
2019-06-29T20:32:15 < PaulFertser> disposabled[m]: afair, no, it'll have 3.3V from stlink.
2019-06-29T20:32:28 < PaulFertser> Back via LDO
2019-06-29T20:35:03 < PaulFertser> dongs: I do not say usb is not working, but it might help to see where exactly the whole process starts to misbehave. Submitting from one thread and getting callbacks by calling libusb_handle_events in a loop in another should be fine.
2019-06-29T20:36:34 < PaulFertser> dongs: also, I might try to run your app with "valgrind" to see if you might happen to use some uninitialised memory or some other gotcha like that.
2019-06-29T20:38:28 < disposabled[m]> hmmm. trying to connect an encoder that has a 5v pin. wondering if 3.3v will get it done
2019-06-29T20:39:33 < disposabled[m]> I don't get usable numbers back from the encoder
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2019-06-29T20:39:52 < disposabled[m]> that is, the number doesn't change when the encoder moves
2019-06-29T20:40:02 < mawk> what do you call encoder exactly ?
2019-06-29T20:40:04 < mawk> rotary encoder ?
2019-06-29T20:40:11 < disposabled[m]> but it will occasionally randomly change
2019-06-29T20:40:18 < PaulFertser> dongs: related: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/49605169/libusb-race-condition-using-asynchronous-i-o
2019-06-29T20:40:51 < disposabled[m]> mawk: yes. rotary encoder. that is, it's a wheel
2019-06-29T20:41:00 < mawk> you know how to use it ?
2019-06-29T20:41:08 < mawk> how do you "read" the values ?
2019-06-29T20:41:49 < disposabled[m]> mawk: I don't know how to use anything 🙂
2019-06-29T20:41:59 < mawk> then the rotary encoder is working properly
2019-06-29T20:42:08 < mawk> it's a dumb device anyway, 5V is printed on the pcb but you can put anything
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2019-06-29T20:43:25 < disposabled[m]> mawk: I'm invoking an api call that I guess is reading the count register of the timer
2019-06-29T20:44:12 < mawk> but you know how rotary encoders are supposed to work ?
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2019-06-29T20:45:25 < qyx> api call for rotary encoder O_o
2019-06-29T20:46:12 < qyx> thats hard to debug
2019-06-29T20:46:21 < qyx> whats the type of the rotary encoder? is it a quadrature one?
2019-06-29T20:46:26 < dongs> stm32cubed
2019-06-29T20:46:45 < qyx> how are you powering it? how did you connect it?
2019-06-29T20:46:55 < qyx> did you configure gpio for alternate functions of the timer?
2019-06-29T20:47:11 < qyx> are you actually using the timer?
2019-06-29T20:47:29 < qyx> if yes, how did you configure it?
2019-06-29T20:47:41 < qyx> or is it like "rotary_init(); int a = rotary_read();"?
2019-06-29T20:48:09 < disposabled[m]> qyx: it is quadtrature
2019-06-29T20:48:40 < qyx> then check if the two outputs are outputting something, 90deg out of phase
2019-06-29T20:48:46 < qyx> with a scope for example
2019-06-29T20:49:02 < qyx> if yes, check programatically if you are able to read the gpio state
2019-06-29T20:49:20 < qyx> with a gpio_read of sorts, in a loop
2019-06-29T20:49:38 < qyx> if you are able to see changing states on the input pins, continue and debug your lib
2019-06-29T20:49:49 < Cracki> take a multimeter, poke the A and B signals and watch if they're wiggling
2019-06-29T20:49:52 < qyx> if not, it is probably gpio config problem
2019-06-29T20:50:16 < qyx> if dmm/scope test fails, it is problem of the encoder itself
2019-06-29T20:50:50 < Cracki> bluepill raises the odds that it's some crappy library
2019-06-29T20:51:08 < Cracki> or that it's not even using timers, just polling gpios
2019-06-29T20:51:34 < Cracki> polling at whatever rate you call that api
2019-06-29T20:51:37 < Cracki> we don't know
2019-06-29T20:51:48 < Cracki> disposabled[m], YOU must hand over a LOT more info
2019-06-29T20:54:38 < ds2> dongs: what errors are you getting back?
2019-06-29T20:55:17 < Laurenceb> inb4 "##stm32 is a bigoted and racist channel"
2019-06-29T20:55:46 < disposabled[m]> Cracki: yes. I know I'm stumbling a bit
2019-06-29T20:56:10 < Cracki> just post a teamviewer id, then we can control you and your bank account remotely
2019-06-29T20:56:52 < Cracki> seriously, remote admin is often the simplest choice for dealing with customers and such
2019-06-29T20:57:04 < Cracki> short of house visits
2019-06-29T20:59:16 < disposabled[m]> Cracki: I'd happily invite you into my home to teach me what I'm doing 🙂
2019-06-29T20:59:45 < Cracki> ... I think teamviewer is doing their IPO and then rebranding as a findom tool. check them out on social media and 95% of results are perverts
2019-06-29T21:00:08 < disposabled[m]> Cracki: PB&J ok for lunch?
2019-06-29T21:00:30 < Cracki> what happens in the tree house stays in the tree house, eh
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2019-06-29T21:02:40 < dongs> ds2: what do you mean
2019-06-29T21:02:49 < dongs> im getting garbaged data
2019-06-29T21:04:38 < dongs> i dont know if its under or over running or what
2019-06-29T21:04:41 < ds2> dongs: in the URB, there is a error/status field, does that report anything
2019-06-29T21:04:55 < dongs> huh i donno. i am not looking at it that much because it works when im not using libusb
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2019-06-29T21:06:51 < ds2> dongs: have you see these docs - http://libusb.sourceforge.net/api-1.0/group__asyncio.html
2019-06-29T21:07:22 < dongs> yeah, obviosuly
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2019-06-29T21:08:57 < catphish> morning
2019-06-29T21:09:02 < ds2> that gives you the errors if any
2019-06-29T21:09:21 < dongs> there are no errors. the data is skipping, thats all
2019-06-29T21:09:36 < dongs> despite me queeing 32 transfers
2019-06-29T21:09:46 < dongs> or incrasing per-transfer buffer size
2019-06-29T21:09:51 < ds2> so nothing in the status field at all?
2019-06-29T21:10:17 < dongs> i dont know, again, this is something that works 100% pushing > 100mbit using cyapi
2019-06-29T21:10:38 < dongs> i can't even get 15mbit with libusb (i mean, i can, but the data is missing/garbaged at random points0
2019-06-29T21:11:14 < ds2> libusb isn't really capable of highspeed... for high speeds, a kernel driver is needed
2019-06-29T21:16:53 < disposabled[m]> hmm. when I check the pins connected to the encoder, they are both high all time
2019-06-29T21:18:42 < dongs> how do you even check it
2019-06-29T21:20:26 < disposabled[m]> well, I don't have a scope (I know, I know) so I just checked mypin.is_high()
2019-06-29T21:22:17 < disposabled[m]> I guess I can resort to the redneck scope and stick my meter on it
2019-06-29T21:24:44 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-06-29T21:27:05 < Cracki> buy a multimeter at least
2019-06-29T21:27:14 < Cracki> one with a _fast_ bargraph
2019-06-29T21:27:25 < Cracki> ah you have one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-06-29T21:27:51 < Cracki> order a cheap logic analyzer. 5 bucks. "8ch" and "24m" are the keywords
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2019-06-29T21:30:11 < PaulFertser> dongs: garbaged data likely means you're racing in your code.
2019-06-29T21:46:18 < disposabled[m]> meter shows both pins with constant voltage
2019-06-29T21:57:34 < Cracki> it's fucked
2019-06-29T21:57:49 < Cracki> get 5v from somewhere, see if that's the problem
2019-06-29T21:58:13 < PaulFertser> Somewhere <- just connect to USB, dammit
2019-06-29T22:00:20 < Cracki> ;)
2019-06-29T22:03:31 < disposabled[m]> Cracki: thanks. I straightened it out
2019-06-29T22:03:43 < disposabled[m]> should have done it right the first time
2019-06-29T22:03:56 < Cracki> you are being very vague
2019-06-29T22:04:17 < Cracki> vague people get concrete shoes
2019-06-29T22:04:20 < disposabled[m]> I had my wires reversed
2019-06-29T22:04:25 < Cracki> which way
2019-06-29T22:04:34 < disposabled[m]> now I have them more manageable from the breadboard
2019-06-29T22:05:00 < disposabled[m]> I had wires 1,2,3,4 connected to pins 4,3,2,1
2019-06-29T22:05:11 < Cracki> do numbers mean anything?
2019-06-29T22:05:48 < disposabled[m]> it means my 5v source was not connected to the 5v pin, it was connected to a chan pin, as was gnd
2019-06-29T22:06:39 < disposabled[m]> so I was sending current in on the chan pin and trying to read quadtrature from the 5v pin
2019-06-29T22:06:57 < zyp> qyx, I'd expect to be able to saturate FS easily, for HS I assume it'll depend a lot on software
2019-06-29T22:07:20 < disposabled[m]> kindergarten mistake
2019-06-29T22:08:23 < zyp> with a DMA-capable core you'll probably be able to saturate HS as well as long as you can fill and schedule DMA transfers quickly enogh
2019-06-29T22:08:29 < Cracki> at least the sensor wasn't powered
2019-06-29T22:09:33 < qyx> and another usb related question, why the hell there is no HS phy in the stm32
2019-06-29T22:09:49  * qyx still an usb noob
2019-06-29T22:09:50 < zyp> doesn't some of the newer highend ones have that?
2019-06-29T22:10:17 < qyx> idk
2019-06-29T22:10:57 < zyp> https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32f7-series.html <- according to table here, F7x8, F7x9, F7x3 and F730 does
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2019-06-29T23:34:51 < qyx> Fast Ethernet is a cost-effective solution for delivering higher bandwidth connectivity while ensuring full compatibility with existing 10 Mbit/s Ethernet infrastructures
2019-06-29T23:34:55 < qyx> wtf ST, are you from the past
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2019-06-29T23:45:43 < Steffanx> lol
2019-06-29T23:46:01 < Steffanx> where did you read that mr qyx?
2019-06-29T23:46:54 < effractur> whell you have to upgrade, most gigabit stuff stopt supporting 10mbit
2019-06-29T23:46:58 < effractur> and slowly also 100mbit
2019-06-29T23:49:08 < qyx> https://www.st.com/en/applications/connectivity/ethernet.html
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2019-06-29T23:55:16 < Cracki> most?
2019-06-29T23:55:37 < Cracki> what gigabit stuff doesn't support 100 anymore? what doesn't support 10 anymore?
2019-06-29T23:56:48 < qyx> idk, maybe cisco, they required cross cables even when mdi/mdi-x was at least a decade old
2019-06-29T23:56:55 < Cracki> I can see that for core/backbone stuff
2019-06-29T23:57:03 < Cracki> wat
2019-06-29T23:57:13 < Cracki> so you're saying they're BEHIND the times
2019-06-29T23:57:28 < Cracki> wait, he's claiming one thing and you're claiming another
2019-06-29T23:57:42 < qyx> yeah
2019-06-29T23:58:07 < qyx> just trolling atm
2019-06-29T23:58:24 < qyx> also me using cisco is like dongs using linux
--- Day changed Sun Jun 30 2019
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2019-06-30T00:00:54 < Cracki> the bureaucrats reigning over our uni network use cisco... everything costs 10x compared to whatever's good on fs.com, while half the time cisco buys the same shit and slaps their label on it
2019-06-30T00:02:57 < qyx> it was the same here
2019-06-30T00:03:28 < karlp> they might rebrand sfps and gbics and shit, but what other stuff do you think they're relabelling and selling?
2019-06-30T00:03:30 < qyx> we had a nonprofit org at our student hostel and we were building our networks ourselves
2019-06-30T00:03:36 < qyx> because the uni didn't
2019-06-30T00:03:53 < qyx> using dells mostly
2019-06-30T00:04:03 < Cracki> ;)
2019-06-30T00:04:19 < qyx> now they are replacing them with cisco :S
2019-06-30T00:04:43 < Cracki> when a part of the (nonprofit) student council here wanted to expand, they were forced to buy genuine[tm] cisco sfp* modules for the fiber
2019-06-30T00:04:45 < qyx> also we were the first to have gigabit to the end user at that time
2019-06-30T00:05:10 < Cracki> I'm not sure what they had to waste money on but 30k bucks went out the window and it wasn't for all that much, compared to what we got
2019-06-30T00:05:26 < qyx> we used finisar mostly
2019-06-30T00:05:37 < qyx> and some other stuff I don't remember
2019-06-30T00:06:36 -!- pennTeller [~pennTelle@unaffiliated/pennteller] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2019-06-30T00:07:42 < karlp> for dongs' python and libusb pleasure, my async python usb code: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/LI30KQLWx6s25NxF-xsTVg
2019-06-30T00:08:50 < Cracki> mostly I hate them for wasting 30k on VM servers nobody asked for and network "expansion" that was replacing the same speed old stuff with more expensive new stuff that was the same speed
2019-06-30T00:09:14 < Cracki> their justification for wasting money is "it's not our money"
2019-06-30T00:09:23 < qyx> priming the pump
2019-06-30T00:09:26 < qyx> for better pumping
2019-06-30T00:09:41 < Cracki> they need to be put against a wall
2019-06-30T00:09:49 < qyx> karlp: bookmarking
2019-06-30T00:09:52 < Cracki> and made to swallow every cent of the money they wasted
2019-06-30T00:10:10 < qyx> yeah, that was on the uni I worked at
2019-06-30T00:10:20 < qyx> but those dells were for our money
2019-06-30T00:10:30 < qyx> it was 5€ monthly per student at that time
2019-06-30T00:10:36 < Cracki> fair price
2019-06-30T00:10:41 < Cracki> around the same as in our dorms
2019-06-30T00:11:09 < qyx> before the FO was dug, there was a Ronja
2019-06-30T00:11:12 < Cracki> enough to replace the occasional failing thing or two
2019-06-30T00:11:49 < Cracki> pew pew pew
2019-06-30T00:12:04 < qyx> http://ronja.twibright.com/
2019-06-30T00:12:18 < Cracki> I've read about that a while ago. neat stuff.
2019-06-30T00:12:50 < Cracki> and of course made in a place where people have to rely ingenuity because they have nothing to waste
2019-06-30T00:15:13 < Cracki> have the RONJA people ever worked on more throughput than 10M?
2019-06-30T00:17:22 < Cracki> I heard that some long range fiber transceiver modules are powerful and sensitive enough that you can bounce them off the wall of a room and it still works
2019-06-30T00:17:28 < Cracki> *the light
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2019-06-30T00:18:57 < karlp> qyx: for the bug I was trying to reproduce, I got the same thing with the plain pyusb synch apis, but it might be more useful when it's HS.
2019-06-30T00:19:11 < karlp> (so I've got that as a commit in a branch for reference, but it's not used anywhere yet)
2019-06-30T00:20:34 < karlp> qyx: those functions are ~equivalent to the similarly named ones in the existing locm3 gadget0 tests, if you want to compare at all
2019-06-30T00:21:52 < qyx> I am just keeping that because I am about to do some usb code, probably in python on the host side
2019-06-30T00:24:00 < karlp> yeah, that "usb1" library is ~very much just "straight up libusb api" whereas pyusb is more "pythonic"
2019-06-30T00:24:06 < karlp> both have their ups and downs.
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2019-06-30T00:48:01 < disposabled[m]> can two interruptions with the same handler be concurrent?
2019-06-30T00:48:32 < qyx> there are no concurrent things on a single core
2019-06-30T00:48:57 < disposabled[m]> then, can they interrupt each other?
2019-06-30T00:55:43 < mawk> that depends on their priorities
2019-06-30T00:55:53 < Thorn> disposabled[m]: yes if they have different priorities
2019-06-30T00:55:56 < mawk> you configure this in the NVIC
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2019-06-30T01:03:11 < disposabled[m]> what I'm thinking is to have some function I want to run on an interval. I don't know if interrupts can be configured on intervals, but if not, I could set another interrupt as the first step in the interrupt. But I don't know if the function could be pre-empted by itself if it takes longer than interval to complete
2019-06-30T01:04:22 < englishman> happy saturday, innovators
2019-06-30T01:04:33 < englishman> what have you done today to increase inclusiveness in ##stm32?
2019-06-30T01:05:17 < englishman> inclusiveness is the most important part of innovation
2019-06-30T01:06:47 < qyx> disposabled[m]: some pointers: read section on timers, a timer can be configured to count continuous upwards and then overflow back, you can configure multiple events to cause an interrupt
2019-06-30T01:07:24 < qyx> disposabled[m]: for example an update event (when the counter overflows), or a compare event (the counter is compared to a defined value)
2019-06-30T01:08:08 < qyx> you can slow down the clock with some prescalers, mess with other settings
2019-06-30T01:08:08 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-06-30T01:08:29 < qyx> and then, enable timer/counter interrupt generation (in the timer config itself and in the NVIC)
2019-06-30T01:08:38 < qyx> write your handler and you are ~~done~~
2019-06-30T01:09:06 < qyx> also, other possibilities, periodic interrupt can be generated using RTC peripheral, systick timer and possibly other ways
2019-06-30T01:10:23 < qyx> maybe the systick is a better solution to start with
2019-06-30T01:10:29 < disposabled[m]> I'm thinking systick. I need sub-second granulatrity, so I think RTC is out
2019-06-30T01:14:29 < Cracki> how about you explain what you want
2019-06-30T01:15:19 < qyx> A periodic interrupt.
2019-06-30T01:15:50 < Cracki> then where does the worry about nested interrupts come from
2019-06-30T01:15:58 < Cracki> it doesn't sound like a feature request, but a worry
2019-06-30T01:16:26 < Cracki> sounds like he wants an interrupt handler that might run longer than the period
2019-06-30T01:17:40 < Cracki> hm, aliex only has crystal balls upto 100mm
2019-06-30T01:17:57 < disposabled[m]> I was worried that it might run longer than interval, but I suppose that is solvable
2019-06-30T01:18:04 < englishman> if your task might take longer than your task period, things get a little more complex
2019-06-30T01:18:08 < disposabled[m]> and probably won't be an issue anyway
2019-06-30T01:18:24 < Cracki> it's all good.
2019-06-30T01:19:03 < kakimir> hello night crew
2019-06-30T01:19:09 < Cracki> ave
2019-06-30T01:19:44 < disposabled[m]> my task is pretty small: read two encoders, read a pot, read one or two other things and do some calcs and possible change a gpio
2019-06-30T01:20:17 < Cracki> that's one of the most common tasks in embedded programming.
2019-06-30T01:20:28 < Cracki> systick or other timer.
2019-06-30T01:20:45 < disposabled[m]> I only need to do this less than 100 time per second
2019-06-30T01:20:51 < Cracki> timer causes interrupts. interupts cause handlers to run.
2019-06-30T01:20:54 < englishman> should be fine even on tarduino
2019-06-30T01:21:10 < englishman> 10ms is an eternity
2019-06-30T01:22:33 < Cracki> interrupt means some flag gets set. handler resets the flag. if at the end of the handler execution, the flag is set again (because some interrupt set it again), the handler gets run again.
2019-06-30T01:24:26 < Cracki> (on avr, the flag clearing is done by the core automatically.)
2019-06-30T01:27:47 < Cracki> applies to cortex m as well, but some peripherals may need explicit flag clearing or else they set interrupt flags again right away
2019-06-30T01:28:10 < Cracki> as qyx said, grab docs, find the section on NVIC
2019-06-30T01:28:22 < Cracki> or just systick :P
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2019-06-30T01:39:43 < Cracki> "systick" gives few results. "system timer" is what they call it.
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2019-06-30T02:09:21 < jly> Yeah I saw Madonna
2019-06-30T02:16:02 < kakimir> you were seeing Madonna right?
2019-06-30T02:44:33 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2019-06-30T02:51:16 < Laurenceb> wont she hurry up and die?
2019-06-30T02:53:39 < Laurenceb> tfw https://imgoat.com/uploads/0e190d8267/218465.jpg
2019-06-30T02:54:25 < emeb_mac> funny to a small number of ppl?
2019-06-30T02:54:56 < Laurenceb> >when you get promoted to "team leader"
2019-06-30T02:55:03 < Laurenceb> funny to anyone who lives in the uk
2019-06-30T02:55:26 < Laurenceb> whole areas of our cities are inhabited by that guy
2019-06-30T02:57:00 < Cracki> posh little shit with an audi? that's the stereotype now?
2019-06-30T02:57:13 < Laurenceb> >>1217112 >The so-called "Deano" still manages to have more depth than most of you virgin incels haha, makes me think
2019-06-30T02:57:18 < Laurenceb> how will 4chan recover
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2019-06-30T03:37:47 < bitmask> tuning pressure advance sucks
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2019-06-30T03:58:02 < Laurenceb> https://imgoat.com/uploads/0e190d8267/218507.jpeg
2019-06-30T03:58:39 < Laurenceb> Gunna vossi bop dat sket in da face blud, freestyle!
2019-06-30T04:01:11 < Laurenceb> did you know the 'b' in my username stands for black? Well u do now, fam
2019-06-30T04:01:37 < bitmask> we aint fam bruv
2019-06-30T04:06:20 < bitmask> hopefully this is my last print of a square
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2019-06-30T05:17:56 < jly> I'm going to buy a commodore 64
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2019-06-30T08:36:33 < dongs> PaulFertser: http://bcas.tv/paste/results/TtihyI41.html i printed out user_data passed to the callback (the buffer/transfer index) and it looks fine. so waht gives?
2019-06-30T08:41:15 < dongs> ohahahha.
2019-06-30T08:41:17 < dongs> foudn the problem
2019-06-30T08:41:44 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/RIbc0r89.html
2019-06-30T08:41:49 < dongs> i guess sleeping on it helped
2019-06-30T09:01:57 < rajkosto> what was problem
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2019-06-30T09:02:02 < dongs> see the code
2019-06-30T09:02:12 < dongs> (in the paste it still has the problem
2019-06-30T09:02:31 < rajkosto> cant tell without knowing your data types
2019-06-30T09:02:41 < dongs> no, you dont need to know that
2019-06-30T09:02:42 < rajkosto> unless using TS_ vs non TS_
2019-06-30T09:02:47 < rajkosto> in case why did you have them be different
2019-06-30T09:02:48 < dongs> no
2019-06-30T09:03:01 < rajkosto> swapped buffers[] and pWorkBuffer
2019-06-30T09:03:18 < dongs> no, the idea was to allocate a huge buffer and then spread ts_transfer_size blocks over it
2019-06-30T09:03:35 < rajkosto> i * TRANSFER_SIZE
2019-06-30T09:03:36 < dongs> however that doesnt work when you do (i + ts_transfer_size)
2019-06-30T09:03:38 < dongs> aye
2019-06-30T09:03:51 < rajkosto> yeah without context you cant infer that really
2019-06-30T09:03:55 < dongs> a dumb typo, i was literally retyping same shit from working code
2019-06-30T09:04:03 < rajkosto> also easy to blind over + vs *
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2019-06-30T09:06:06 < Ultrasauce> if only c had some sort of abstraction for structured data in memory
2019-06-30T09:06:31 < dongs> ikr?
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2019-06-30T09:50:23 < PaulFertser> dongs: hehe, nice
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2019-06-30T18:19:11 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/gallery/zEgutYK
2019-06-30T18:19:27 < Steffanx> Good reflex
2019-06-30T18:25:14 < bitmask> that will shock anyone into an instant jump
2019-06-30T18:29:03 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/XE4I8T2
2019-06-30T18:29:07 < bitmask> not sure how to improve this
2019-06-30T18:29:22 < bitmask> aside from choosing 'hide z seam'
2019-06-30T18:29:43 < bitmask> not sure if I can improve the layer alignment
2019-06-30T18:48:51 < Thorn> I'm rewriting my packet scheduling for the 3rd time :/
2019-06-30T18:49:30 < qyx> haha
2019-06-30T18:49:48 < Thorn> bitmask: should I get anycubic mega[-s] for $240-250 shipped?
2019-06-30T18:49:49 < qyx> been here, done that
2019-06-30T18:50:39 < qyx> *there
2019-06-30T18:51:23 < bitmask> not sure, I dont really keep up with printers, although it seems the ender 3 (and/or 5?) and the cr-10s are very popular
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2019-06-30T18:52:09 < bitmask> I want to build a railcore II 
2019-06-30T18:52:28 < bitmask> but even with the parts I already have, Id have to spend another $400
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2019-06-30T18:57:37 < Laurenceb> sheeeet
2019-06-30T18:57:49 < Laurenceb> this is a milkshaking I can get behind
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2019-06-30T19:27:20 < englishman> good evening nocontextb
2019-06-30T19:28:46 < Laurenceb> Andy Ngo got "milkshaked" with quicklime and quick setting cement
2019-06-30T19:29:14 < Laurenceb> send him back to Vietnam tbh
2019-06-30T19:31:21 < englishman> i dont know what that means but your chats seem to be hateful and therefore potentially offensive
2019-06-30T19:31:43 < Laurenceb> as it always is
2019-06-30T19:32:12 < Laurenceb> but now I've going antifa so I can launch racist attacks with impunity
2019-06-30T19:32:18 < englishman> will you redeem your low social status with innovation chats?
2019-06-30T19:32:19 < Laurenceb> *joined
2019-06-30T19:32:26 < Laurenceb> babby shaker
2019-06-30T19:34:06 < Laurenceb> I'm bored
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2019-06-30T19:45:17 < Laurenceb> GAY ASIAN Andy Ngo battered by Antifa and Conservatives are outraged. We're still in Pride month!
2019-06-30T19:51:25 < bitmask> just stop
2019-06-30T19:52:04 < antto> lorans, pls
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2019-06-30T20:30:25 < Steffanx> bitmask: time for something else than fdm
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2019-06-30T20:37:22 < bitmask> meh, I still want to build a railcore ii
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2019-06-30T20:47:09 < Steffanx> no you dont
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2019-06-30T21:08:02 < ehel0n> hi
2019-06-30T21:11:39 < Laurenceb> milkshake the ##stm32
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2019-06-30T21:13:15 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/15j9N7QhU31VzPlyMg22xxkjNkIk3XM8h/view?usp=sharing first idle
2019-06-30T21:13:44 < kakimir> after changing carburetor joints and cleaning carburetors
2019-06-30T21:14:18 < Steffanx> We're processing this video. Please check again later.
2019-06-30T21:14:23 < Steffanx> Too soon
2019-06-30T21:15:58 < ehel0n> some led blinky stuff out there
2019-06-30T21:25:10 < kakimir> Steff: I pay google 3.90eur a month and they get lazy
2019-06-30T21:25:19 < kakimir> I need my videos now
2019-06-30T21:25:28 < kakimir> not after 24hours
2019-06-30T21:25:41 < kakimir> actually some of my videos from 2days ago are still processing
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2019-06-30T22:39:28 < PaulFertser> kakimir: what are you going to use to sync the carbs?
2019-06-30T22:40:29 < PaulFertser> And why's N blinking?
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2019-06-30T22:58:48 < laurence_> https://lkml.org/lkml/2019/6/14/127 orbital sides
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2019-06-30T23:20:01 < Cracki> >too large to be cached effectively
2019-06-30T23:20:09 < Cracki> that's called thrashing
2019-06-30T23:20:57 < Cracki> if read caching, as opposed to not read caching, hurts performance, that's a weird/bad impl of cache
2019-06-30T23:27:06 < laurence_> wew
2019-06-30T23:27:08 < laurence_> https://www.morrisseycentral.com/messagesfrommorrissey/nothing-but-blue-skirs-for-stormzy
2019-06-30T23:27:23 < laurence_> morrissey lurks on 8chan 
2019-06-30T23:30:48 < mawk> accusing linus of coc breach
2019-06-30T23:30:57 < mawk> why did he agree to it in the first place is a mystery
2019-06-30T23:31:04 < mawk> to not lose precious grants from linux foundation sponsors maybe
2019-06-30T23:31:19 < Cracki> the only legitimate time for throwing cocs at people is if they propagate cocs
2019-06-30T23:31:27 < Cracki> they blackmailed him, I think
2019-06-30T23:31:41 < Cracki> typical shakedown
2019-06-30T23:35:34 < laurence_> kek 8chan are celebrating the Mozzer getting converted
2019-06-30T23:45:20 < laurence_> inb4 moar youtube account get b&
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--- Log closed Mon Jul 01 00:00:37 2019