--- Log opened Mon Jul 01 00:00:37 2019
--- Day changed Mon Jul 01 2019
2019-07-01T00:00:37 < catphish> i thought linux was supposed to be cleaning up his style of communication
2019-07-01T00:00:41 < catphish> *linus
2019-07-01T00:03:43 < catphish> at least it's mostly civil :)
2019-07-01T00:08:14 < laurence_> he needs to stick his emails through niggerfaggot.sh before sending
2019-07-01T00:09:50 < laurence_> https://news.slashdot.org/story/19/06/28/2339245/tech-press-rushes-to-cover-new-linus-torvalds-mailing-list-outburst#
2019-07-01T00:11:32 < kakimir> PaulFertser: I did mechanical sync and then I have vacuum gauge set
2019-07-01T00:11:45 < kakimir> not yet done
2019-07-01T00:12:31 < kakimir> N is blinking because it tries to fall to 1st
2019-07-01T00:13:04 < kakimir> very safe
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2019-07-01T00:23:50 < kakimir> to say I eyeballed it
2019-07-01T00:24:35 < kakimir> symmetry to butterfly valves
2019-07-01T00:25:10 < kakimir> now when I istall vacuum gauges if I see major diff I know if there is some issues
2019-07-01T00:25:23 < kakimir> leaks etc.
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2019-07-01T00:40:11 < karlp> love your "libusb problem" dongs :)
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2019-07-01T02:01:23 < Laurenceb> despite being 13% of the code, libusb causes 50% of the problems
2019-07-01T02:09:19 < karlp> well, dongs was 100% of the problems in that case, he just wanted to blame libusb :)
2019-07-01T02:09:25 < rajkosto> Laurenceb, so thats the answer to https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-06-30_00-38-04_4yjOZJb1y.png ?
2019-07-01T02:10:12 < karlp> I feel like I really don't need to know what you two are clearly botyh referring to, it's going to be some fucking garbage
2019-07-01T02:10:34 < karlp> ok, hoops jumped through. let's see how this submission goes :)
2019-07-01T02:14:30 < Thorn> karlp: so what's his problem? I suspect it's bad design somewhere but where exactlyl
2019-07-01T02:15:13 < Laurenceb> rajkosto: in the case of people like dongs it's 2% is 50%
2019-07-01T02:16:32 < Laurenceb> rajkosto: what is 1%, but also 23%?
2019-07-01T02:16:48 < rajkosto> why was 6 afraid of 7
2019-07-01T02:17:23 < Laurenceb> kek
2019-07-01T02:17:30 < Laurenceb> >britbong empire
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2019-07-01T02:20:04 < rajkosto> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/347254691966615552/595025896285667365/image0-3-1.png
2019-07-01T02:20:48 < Laurenceb> >discord
2019-07-01T02:21:09 < rajkosto> >TELEGRAM
2019-07-01T02:21:42 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A23PQCndPYU
2019-07-01T02:23:48 < Laurenceb> she hated discord almost as much as she hated miners
2019-07-01T02:25:23 < karlp> Thorn: dongs? he did a base 
2019-07-01T02:25:36 < karlp>  he did a base + (i+ stepsize) instead of base + (i*stepsize)
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2019-07-01T02:26:44 < karlp> I think it's kinda fun that physical security is still only barely learning how to even comprehend the nature of a DoS attack.
2019-07-01T02:27:58 < Thorn> yeah but from what I understood (maybe wrongly) he had to queue many transfer with libusb, something that he didn't have to do that before he switched to it
2019-07-01T02:29:17 < karlp> well, he followed the libusb async docs happily to setup transfers,
2019-07-01T02:29:20 < karlp> just failed at doing so.
2019-07-01T02:29:27 < karlp> he didn't actyually complain about that
2019-07-01T02:29:38 < karlp> he just said, "I setup transfers and they'ðre all fucked => libusb is wrong"
2019-07-01T02:30:15 < rajkosto> no, it is the children who are wrong
2019-07-01T02:30:29 < karlp> no, this is what's wrong: http://kicad-pcb.org/libraries/klc/S2.3/
2019-07-01T02:30:35 < karlp> (My biggest gripe with kicad)
2019-07-01T02:47:07 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-07-01T02:49:04 < karlp> worst press release ever. no links to further information. good job dialog: https://www.dialog-semiconductor.com/press-releases/dialog-semiconductor-accelerates-iot-adoption-new-ultra-low-power-wi-fi-soc
2019-07-01T02:49:57 < mawk> no figures means bad figures, karlp 
2019-07-01T02:50:05 < Thorn> enables direct connectivity to the botnet
2019-07-01T02:50:11 < mawk> it engages only people who believe what you say when you say "industry lowest ..."
2019-07-01T02:50:17 < mawk> lol Thorn 
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2019-07-01T03:25:20 < R2COM> so i was doing some stuff with bldc motor powering it from ATX supply all was ok, but at some point i made a quick turnoff and it stopped however ATX supply not working anymore
2019-07-01T03:25:33 < R2COM> i wonder if there was some inductive spike which killed some shit there
2019-07-01T03:25:51 < R2COM> those PSUs not designed to drive such loads anyway...
2019-07-01T03:27:40 < Cracki> *zap*
2019-07-01T03:27:54 < Cracki> no HDD or optical drive spins down all that fast
2019-07-01T03:28:33 < mawk> I tried to compute a parallel plate capacitor
2019-07-01T03:28:39 < mawk> I didn't lose too much of my maths reflexes
2019-07-01T03:28:58 < Ultrasauce> yeah for my atx abuse i always add a bit fat schottky across the output
2019-07-01T03:29:17 < mawk> I got u = qd/(KA)
2019-07-01T03:30:39 < mawk> d distance between plate, A plate area, K dielectric permittivity
2019-07-01T03:30:44 < mawk> I think it's the good expression
2019-07-01T03:31:29 < R2COM> yes adding protection was in my deep thoughts but for some fucking reason i didnt make it
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2019-07-01T03:44:33 < BrainDamage> mawk: yeah if K is the absolute dielectric permittivity
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2019-07-01T04:07:21 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1uzsiDI4hM
2019-07-01T04:07:23 < mawk> yes BrainDamage 
2019-07-01T04:07:38 < mawk> I got K = e0er, with e0 the void permittivity and er the medium permittivity relative to void
2019-07-01T04:08:01 < BrainDamage> now for more fun account for edge effects :p
2019-07-01T04:08:03 < mawk> I mean ε0 εr, we're classy people
2019-07-01T04:08:10 < mawk> yeah I thought about it
2019-07-01T04:08:14 < mawk> but the maths didn't seem nice
2019-07-01T04:08:19 < mawk> but that's how I love my maths
2019-07-01T04:08:21 < mawk> let's try
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2019-07-01T04:09:16 < mawk> the edge effect are with the electric field measured between the plates
2019-07-01T04:09:33 < mawk> but what we physically sense is the potential difference, and that is the same anywhere on the plate right ?
2019-07-01T04:09:37 < mawk> if they are perfectly conductive
2019-07-01T04:09:46 < mawk> so where fringe effects manifest ?
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2019-07-01T04:10:25 < Laurenceb> haha oh wow https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45824.1160
2019-07-01T04:10:37 < Laurenceb> I bet SeeShells believes in QAnon
2019-07-01T04:10:43 < Laurenceb> and votes for Trump
2019-07-01T04:10:52 < BrainDamage> because in order to calculate the potential, you assumed the electric field is perfectly uniform to integrate
2019-07-01T04:11:03 < BrainDamage> there's a portion that lies outside the plates
2019-07-01T04:11:14 < mawk> yes
2019-07-01T04:11:41 < mawk> so with finite size plates in the calculus I will have a potential that differs with respect to x and y ?
2019-07-01T04:11:56 < mawk> eg the potential difference between the two plates will be different depending on where I sample it from
2019-07-01T04:12:23 < BrainDamage> the potential difference will be the same, you're assuming static conditions
2019-07-01T04:12:27 < BrainDamage> gauss law applies
2019-07-01T04:12:36 < BrainDamage> it's the distribution of charge that won't be uniform
2019-07-01T04:12:56 < mawk> ah
2019-07-01T04:13:00 < mawk> yes
2019-07-01T04:13:20 < Laurenceb> oh wow the rest of that thread
2019-07-01T04:13:20 < Laurenceb> they might be more insane than QAnon
2019-07-01T04:15:58 < BrainDamage> mawk: you can 'cheat' and turn gauss' law into poisson law
2019-07-01T04:16:08 < BrainDamage> so you get the potential to the charge distribution
2019-07-01T04:16:29 < mawk> I vaguely remember poisson law
2019-07-01T04:16:34 < mawk> I used that in numerical simulations
2019-07-01T04:16:38 < mawk> something about boundary condition
2019-07-01T04:17:50 < BrainDamage> ∇²φ=-ρ/ε	
2019-07-01T04:18:02 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-01T04:18:07 < BrainDamage> just une extra integral over gauss
2019-07-01T04:18:14 < BrainDamage> err, derivate
2019-07-01T04:18:28 < mawk> why phi ?
2019-07-01T04:18:34 < mawk> that's how you call potential ?
2019-07-01T04:18:45 < BrainDamage> yes
2019-07-01T04:18:48 < mawk> right
2019-07-01T04:18:49 < dongs> sup blogs
2019-07-01T04:19:06 < BrainDamage> hello
2019-07-01T04:19:30 < BrainDamage> mawk: there's 1000 names for potentials, and all of them are ambigous depending on context
2019-07-01T04:19:41 < BrainDamage> u can refer to internal energy in thermodynamics
2019-07-01T04:19:41 < mawk> I see
2019-07-01T04:19:46 < mawk> I use V usually
2019-07-01T04:19:52 < BrainDamage> phi can be wavefunction in qm
2019-07-01T04:19:56 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-01T04:20:03 < BrainDamage> v can be velocity, etc etc
2019-07-01T04:20:20 < BrainDamage> so just define your own notation and be consistent
2019-07-01T04:22:14 < mawk> so I do a double integral of potential laplacian over the plate
2019-07-01T04:22:34 < mawk> I get something = -ρ_s A/ε0
2019-07-01T04:24:25 < mawk> triple integral, sorry
2019-07-01T04:24:45 < mawk> I guess there is something like Schwarz theorem allowing me to swap partial derivative and integral in the left hand side
2019-07-01T04:25:03 < mawk> or maybe not, they don't sound like independant variables
2019-07-01T04:31:04 < BrainDamage> make the plates circular
2019-07-01T04:31:16 < BrainDamage> then swap to cylindrical coordinates
2019-07-01T04:31:21 < mawk> right
2019-07-01T04:31:25 < mawk> so I do that triple integral after all
2019-07-01T04:31:39 < mawk> there is no specific theorem about triple integral of laplacian, I just do it and that's all ?
2019-07-01T04:31:40 < BrainDamage> yes, but the parameters are indendent
2019-07-01T04:31:47 < mawk> eg stokes or ostrogradsky
2019-07-01T04:31:51 < mawk> ah good
2019-07-01T04:32:06 < BrainDamage> because of the cylindrical symmetry
2019-07-01T04:32:21 < BrainDamage> the potential is uniform on the disk
2019-07-01T04:32:39 < BrainDamage> so radius and angle become trivial to integrate
2019-07-01T04:32:56 < mawk> yeah
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2019-07-01T07:55:23 < dongs> hmm
2019-07-01T07:55:29 < dongs> lately altidumb spends a lot "updating pin data"
2019-07-01T07:55:33 < dongs> when saving my schlib
2019-07-01T07:55:38 < dongs> the fuck is that even do
2019-07-01T07:55:44 < dongs> i have nveer used pinswapping stuff
2019-07-01T08:57:46 < antto> maybe it just mines bitcoins
2019-07-01T08:58:10 < antto> liek wuauserv.exe
2019-07-01T08:58:17 < qyx>  altcoins
2019-07-01T08:58:39 < antto> bitdumbs
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2019-07-01T10:29:26 < jly> what is a mozzer
2019-07-01T10:30:08 < jly> oh how did laurence's rants get in here
2019-07-01T10:33:27 < antto> almost unnoticably
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2019-07-01T10:34:26 < antto> like animal ears on an anime character
2019-07-01T10:38:26 < dongs> hmm i wonder if i should use a reduced-pin USBC socket for a device that doesnt use highspeed lanes
2019-07-01T10:38:32 < dongs> or just stick with teh shit i alreadty know works
2019-07-01T10:38:59 < dongs> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32976798070.html theres shit like this
2019-07-01T10:40:05 < dongs> o shit that has no usb lol
2019-07-01T10:40:07 < dongs> only CC1/2
2019-07-01T10:40:14 < antto> ugh, micro USB C.. reduced pins
2019-07-01T10:40:24 < antto> so yet another kind of usb connector x_x
2019-07-01T10:40:44 < dongs> what
2019-07-01T10:40:48 < antto> they're gonna run out of shapes soon
2019-07-01T10:41:06 < antto> so this looks similar to micro B, doesn't it
2019-07-01T10:41:27 < dongs> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/UTB8jBtnMFfFXKJk43Otq6xIPFXaV.jpg god damn
2019-07-01T10:42:56 < jly> lol wtf is that
2019-07-01T10:43:03 < dongs> some paki hand
2019-07-01T10:43:10 < dongs> who left review on aliexpress
2019-07-01T10:43:12 < dongs> after buying the usb
2019-07-01T10:44:51 < jly> yeh i was thinking what is some indian hand doing in china
2019-07-01T10:45:53 < dongs> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1bTjjtVmWBuNjSspdq6zugXXaf.jpg hmm
2019-07-01T10:48:05 < jly> so i hear donald pump folded on 'huawei to hell'
2019-07-01T10:48:57 < dongs> oh?
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2019-07-01T10:49:50 < jly> australia news so about 3% chance of being true
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2019-07-01T11:31:20 < dongs> wow this socket has a mega garbage datasheet
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2019-07-01T12:29:21 < jly> hi Laurenceb 
2019-07-01T12:34:06 < Laurenceb> sup
2019-07-01T12:40:10 < Laurenceb> britbong news https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/wife-58-arrested-after-telling-17263541
2019-07-01T12:46:33 < Laurenceb> https://mobile.twitter.com/flow_witMe/status/1144962525974470656
2019-07-01T12:46:47 < karlp> stahp
2019-07-01T12:49:06 < Laurenceb> karlp confirmed as "pimp C"
2019-07-01T12:50:51 < jly> hmm
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2019-07-01T14:42:03 < dongs> so what was the way to do 2 voltages with GPIO to a DC/DC, transistor and another R being addded in parallel to one of the feedbacks?
2019-07-01T14:42:51 < zyp> idk, but the obvious solution to me is opendrain
2019-07-01T14:43:28 < dongs> how would that work
2019-07-01T14:46:12 < qyx> when 1, the R is disconnected
2019-07-01T14:46:18 < qyx> when 0, connected to ground
2019-07-01T14:46:23 < zyp> feedback resistors is a voltage divider, add another resistor between centerpoint and gpio
2019-07-01T14:46:24 < qyx> yeah, may work
2019-07-01T14:47:08 < qyx> I did that for variable output
2019-07-01T14:47:10 < zyp> when gpio is hiZ, third resistor doesn't do anything, when gpio is low third resistor is in parallel with low side resistor
2019-07-01T14:47:22 < qyx> gpio -> R -> cap to ground -> R -> FB pad
2019-07-01T14:47:29 < qyx> and pwm
2019-07-01T14:47:37 < dongs> lol NO qyx, thanks for trying tho
2019-07-01T14:48:03 < qyx> works great
2019-07-01T14:48:07 < dongs> not at all
2019-07-01T14:48:13 < dongs> it doesnt work when there's no pwm
2019-07-01T14:48:35 < zyp> pwm is only relevant if you want a continously variable voltage
2019-07-01T14:48:39 < zyp> not switching between two
2019-07-01T14:48:44 < dongs> right
2019-07-01T14:49:50 < dongs> besides i dont think i want this task to stm
2019-07-01T14:50:02 < dongs> so gpio+transistor pulling R to ground it is.
2019-07-01T14:51:37 < qyx> you are not adventurous enough
2019-07-01T14:52:26 < karlp> fucking opendrain :|
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2019-07-01T14:55:14 < aqaa> tset
2019-07-01T14:56:48 < karlp> wrong window.
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2019-07-01T15:00:43 < qyx> wasn't it our twatter friend
2019-07-01T15:04:07 < dongs> https://www.electronicdesign.com/power/simple-addition-permits-voltage-control-dc-dc-converters-output haha what fucking filth (totally random link when searching for the R1/R2 formula for regulator
2019-07-01T15:06:39 < dongs> ok so adding one more parallel resistor will decrease voltage, so I'll need to run it at lower V and calculate the shit so adding one results in higher V that I need
2019-07-01T15:06:47 < dongs> err decrease ressitance
2019-07-01T15:07:07 < dongs> excel time
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2019-07-01T15:17:16 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/UkxwQSX.png
2019-07-01T15:17:23 < dongs> do i need to count for any other faggotry
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2019-07-01T17:39:30 < qyx> interesting, I found a kernel patch in a BSP creating a patch reject file of another patch
2019-07-01T17:57:55 < qyx> dongs: wat, adding paralel resistor from FB to GND will increase the voltage, doesn't it?
2019-07-01T17:58:36 < qyx> having 10K/10K divider, 1V Vfb, you get 2V, adding parallel R of 10K makes 10K/5K divider, which is 3V
2019-07-01T17:59:28 < dongs> qyx, thats what im calculating, no?
2019-07-01T17:59:51 < dongs> default setup is 249K/30K
2019-07-01T17:59:59 < dongs> which is 11+V
2019-07-01T18:00:13 < dongs> adding 75K in parallel with 30K will make it less R, and output higher V, 15+V
2019-07-01T18:00:41 < dongs> after parallel it becomes 249K/21.4K
2019-07-01T18:05:20 < dongs> yeah qyx i corrected in the line below, decrease voltage -> decrease resistance of R2
2019-07-01T18:07:05 < qyx> lol yes
2019-07-01T18:08:23 < dongs> anyway i only need those 2 voltages and there'sa diode after to drop it another 0.5V so it will be just around 11/15 as i need
2019-07-01T18:09:16 < Thorn> dongs would you like my Vfb voltage divider calculator written in python
2019-07-01T18:10:06 < Thorn> it will search through combinations of standard resistors and optimize for accuracy/current through the divider/etc
2019-07-01T18:10:42 < dongs> yeah but python
2019-07-01T18:10:59 < dongs> how is it better htan excel
2019-07-01T18:11:15 < dongs> did you add in the 96 series or whatever shit there
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2019-07-01T18:43:46 < dongs> how teh fuck do i cleverly invert a 8bit bus
2019-07-01T18:44:04 < englishman> ~
2019-07-01T18:45:28 < dongs> wut
2019-07-01T18:45:30 < dongs> i mean on layout
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2019-07-01T18:47:33 < dongs> oh hm i wonder if i can swap it on output
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2019-07-01T18:50:19 < dongs> oh nice, i can swap it lsb/msb
2019-07-01T18:52:29 < karlp> qyx: heh, I bet it was "hack in unversioned tree, create single big diff of entire tree, ship it" 
2019-07-01T18:52:44 < karlp> patch rejects don't hurt if they aren't needed :)
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2019-07-01T19:11:42 < qyx> karlp: yeah but buildroot does find | grep rej
2019-07-01T19:11:56 < qyx> it errors if a reject is found
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2019-07-01T19:12:39 < karlp> that sounds like somethingthat should be removed from buildroot :)
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2019-07-01T19:13:34 < qyx> also, 4.1 cannot be compiled with gcc7
2019-07-01T19:13:52 < qyx> linuxing the whole day with no apparent result
2019-07-01T19:13:56 < invzim> wheee, new scope ordered \o/
2019-07-01T19:15:30 < karlp> should work if you disable lots of warnings as errors stuff right?
2019-07-01T19:15:40 < karlp> it'sjust all the new warnings that newer gcc finds normally.
2019-07-01T19:15:56 < karlp> I've had bigger problems with autoshit tools not working with newer versions on older buildroots
2019-07-01T19:16:32 < qyx> fatal error: linux/compiler-gcc7.h: No such file or directory
2019-07-01T19:16:36 < qyx> doesn't sound like warning
2019-07-01T19:17:06 < qyx> also, it may be easier to rewrite the patches for a more recent kernel
2019-07-01T19:20:00 < qyx> the main problem is the altera max10 cpld containing stuff, so even the serial is not working
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2019-07-01T19:27:10 < jpa-> isn't max10 fpga?
2019-07-01T19:29:31 < qyx> I though the same, they say CPLD in the patches
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2019-07-01T19:31:37 < mawk> you set me on a trap BrainDamage
2019-07-01T19:31:57 < mawk> now I wanted to find laplacian with cylindrical coordinates and I have like 27 terms
2019-07-01T19:32:17 < mawk> I vaguely remember a matrixy way of doing this
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2019-07-01T20:03:44 < BrainDamage> use the jacobian to do the coordinate transformation
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2019-07-01T20:20:16 < mawk> yes in the integral I'd use the jacobian
2019-07-01T20:20:24 < mawk> but I mean even before the integral I must compute the laplacian
2019-07-01T20:20:38 < mawk> and the laplacian in cylindrical coordinates is not the same as in cartesian coordinates right ?
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2019-07-01T20:29:27 < mawk> I have this: https://maths.serveur.io/v7Xme1dk
2019-07-01T20:29:31 < mawk> it's not finished yet
2019-07-01T20:38:19 < antto> looks what i took out of the oven yesterday: https://i.imgur.com/idaeoeI.jpg https://i.imgur.com/XtSgnqC.jpg
2019-07-01T20:39:14 < Steffanx> Good good antto
2019-07-01T20:40:07 < antto> hm, were cat pics allowed here?
2019-07-01T20:42:59 < Steffanx> idk
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2019-07-01T21:01:53 < BrainDamage> mawk: that looks a bit more messy than it should be
2019-07-01T21:02:04 < BrainDamage> the laplacian in cyl coordinates is somewhat simple https://maths.serveur.io/v7Xme1dk
2019-07-01T21:02:06 < BrainDamage> ops
2019-07-01T21:02:11 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace_operator#Three_dimensions
2019-07-01T21:02:51 < BrainDamage> the z component remains like cartesian, and you have the two chained derivatives
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2019-07-01T22:11:12 < bitmask> ugh, putting tires on a car is tiring
2019-07-01T22:15:31 < ehel0n> so many topic here, but none (or almost) about  stm32;)
2019-07-01T22:17:01 < Steffanx> it is known.
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2019-07-01T22:22:35 < ehel0n> i wonder if anybody could tell me (or just point me out) how to use shift register (a'la SPI) and create custom waveform
2019-07-01T22:22:52 < ehel0n> tim+dma?
2019-07-01T22:24:15 < qyx> yes
2019-07-01T22:24:55 < ehel0n> tim+dma+spi?
2019-07-01T22:25:20 < qyx> or even without the timer
2019-07-01T22:25:33 < qyx> configure spi in tx only mode
2019-07-01T22:25:37 < ehel0n> i think timer is nessesary here. 
2019-07-01T22:25:39 < ehel0n> short example:
2019-07-01T22:25:54 < ehel0n> send 8 bits every 1 second
2019-07-01T22:25:54 < qyx> it automatically transmits when the tx fifo is empty
2019-07-01T22:26:00 < qyx> oh
2019-07-01T22:26:11 < qyx> I though you want a continuous stream
2019-07-01T22:26:24 < ehel0n> short description
2019-07-01T22:26:34 < ehel0n> in example i want to send 8 bits every 1 second
2019-07-01T22:26:50 < ehel0n> but also i need to send 8 bits every 0.2 second and 0.6 second
2019-07-01T22:26:55 < ehel0n> so three transmits every 1 second
2019-07-01T22:27:09 < ehel0n> i wonder can i use three different channel timers to generate such waveform
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2019-07-01T22:33:24 < Thorn> my device will eat the battery much faster when trying to connect to the network than when connected (even if there is a lot of data being transferred)
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2019-07-01T22:35:23 < ehl0_> back
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2019-07-01T23:01:46 < kakimir> hello wisdom
2019-07-01T23:02:44 < Steffanx> Hello our sunshine.
2019-07-01T23:03:18 < kakimir> imma grumpy
2019-07-01T23:03:55 < Steffanx> whats wrong mr kakimir
2019-07-01T23:04:05 < kakimir> I meant generally
2019-07-01T23:04:21 < Steffanx> nah, i cannot confirm that
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2019-07-02T01:46:19 < jadew> sup?
2019-07-02T01:55:06 < Cracki> accelerationism!
2019-07-02T01:55:41 < Cracki> sell artisanal concrete milkshakes to those bourgeois swine that call themselves "antifa"
2019-07-02T01:55:58 < Cracki> their financial elite parents can spare the money
2019-07-02T01:57:16 < jadew> what are you talking about?
2019-07-02T01:57:19 < jadew> what's going on?
2019-07-02T01:59:50 < Cracki> we are going extinct! and it's not an accident!
2019-07-02T02:02:39 < Cracki> google shits doesn't like my excessive scripting. it's refusing to run them now.
2019-07-02T02:05:22 < jadew> what exactly are you doing with google?
2019-07-02T02:05:36 < jadew> performing scripted searches or something else?
2019-07-02T02:07:05 < Cracki> spreadsheet. we got some soda and snack sales. I'm tracking inventory and all that.
2019-07-02T02:07:51 < Cracki> the scripting does things like windowed average, or translating a list of price updates into a table where it can be looked up by any date
2019-07-02T02:08:41 < Cracki> I could use excel but amazingly they still haven't figured out how to give data validation ("this cell may only contain values from that list/range") to have a dropdown with autocomplete
2019-07-02T02:09:24 < Cracki> and google isn't smart enough to run user scripts clientside. it runs on their app server
2019-07-02T02:09:58 < jadew> are you sure it's doing that? it sounds silly
2019-07-02T02:10:03 < Cracki> very sure
2019-07-02T02:10:08 < jadew> why would they sate server time on that?
2019-07-02T02:10:15 < Cracki> reaction speed depends on network (lan, wifi)
2019-07-02T02:10:21 < Cracki> because they're google and fuck it
2019-07-02T02:10:28 < Cracki> it's rate limited and all that anyway
2019-07-02T02:11:30 < Cracki> they aren't smart about when to recalculate either
2019-07-02T02:11:57 < Cracki> if a cell is updated -- even if new value equals old value -- it counts as an update and all dependencies get poked
2019-07-02T02:12:42 < Cracki> afaict
2019-07-02T02:12:54 < jadew> sounds normal tho
2019-07-02T02:13:07 < jadew> they have to record the action in the history
2019-07-02T02:13:13 < jadew> even if there's no change
2019-07-02T02:13:27 < jadew> so when you hit ctrl+z, the previous action is reverted, not the one before
2019-07-02T02:13:47 < jadew> I think I implemented similar undo behaviour in an editor
2019-07-02T02:14:07 < Cracki> they probably only record once the sheet has settled, but with some smarter handling, it'd compute quicker
2019-07-02T02:14:31 < Cracki> cells have formula, and cells have value
2019-07-02T02:14:50 < Cracki> value is nice to look at, but doesn't go in any undo stack
2019-07-02T02:15:25 < jadew> you can insert stuff into history in multiple ways, when you have an action (like applying a formula, or bolding something) or as you type (this one would be done one an inactivity timer)
2019-07-02T02:15:53 < jadew> s/multiple/two/
2019-07-02T02:16:22 < jadew> so you have that insertion when it settles as you call it, but you would also do it on user actions (no timer required)
2019-07-02T02:16:25 < Cracki> maybe I'll translate my (array) functions into event handlers, and only run them upon button click...
2019-07-02T02:19:13 < jadew> sounds like you've wasted enough time on this that you could have just exported to CSV and do it with a script
2019-07-02T02:19:28 < Cracki> lol it needs to be reasonably interactive
2019-07-02T02:19:33 < jadew> ah :)
2019-07-02T02:20:11 < Cracki> e.g. when I prepare an order, I have estimated "out of shit" for all products. for the order, I merely increment quantity for whatever's red, until it's green or I'm out of money
2019-07-02T02:20:49 < Cracki> that's merely linear fit against the last 30 days of stock movements
2019-07-02T02:21:24 < Cracki> but adding an item to the order causes it to recompute because now I "have" that one more "in stock"
2019-07-02T02:22:14 < Cracki> in any case, it's sensitive to the whole column(s) so I can't very well prevent it from recomputing if something in the future (the order) changes
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2019-07-02T02:34:32 < Cracki> aaand even excel 365 only does prefix search for its data validation dropdown, not substring search
2019-07-02T02:41:37 < Laurenceb> >365
2019-07-02T02:41:47 < Laurenceb> a cancerous abomination that needs to die
2019-07-02T02:42:26 < Cracki> aye
2019-07-02T02:42:40 < Cracki> both the web and the offline version just disappoint me about their data validation
2019-07-02T02:42:49 < Cracki> google did that years ago and they haven't bothered copying it
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2019-07-02T04:53:08 < dongs> hahahahaah
2019-07-02T04:53:17 < dongs> im at this office and theres some retard here mining buttcoin
2019-07-02T04:53:22 < dongs> i thought that corner under the table was kinda warm
2019-07-02T04:53:29 < dongs> there's a gaming rig there with dual GPUs
2019-07-02T04:55:47 < rajkosto> please he's mining monero
2019-07-02T04:56:09 < dongs> no i think its ETH
2019-07-02T04:56:13 < dongs> at least tahts waht screen says
2019-07-02T04:56:16 < dongs> wahtever it is, is retarded
2019-07-02T04:59:04 < Cracki> unplug it, sell the gpus
2019-07-02T05:07:35 < Thorn> if have T const& foo();  auto t = foo();  what s the type of t?
2019-07-02T05:16:45 < Cracki> that's not a proper template, is it
2019-07-02T05:17:44 < Cracki> I'd guess it's T& but eh
2019-07-02T05:17:55 < Cracki> T const& that is
2019-07-02T05:21:34 < Thorn> it actually seems to be T. if you do auto& t = foo(); then it's T const&
2019-07-02T05:22:02 < Thorn> I can't recall the term to google. it should be something like decay
2019-07-02T05:23:33 < dongs> oh, there was 4 gputotal
2019-07-02T05:23:40 < dongs> 2 more are connected by fucking usb3 extension shits
2019-07-02T05:23:47 < dongs> 30Mh/s
2019-07-02T05:23:49 < dongs> *4
2019-07-02T05:24:04 < dongs> i should spill tea on it by mistake
2019-07-02T05:28:46 < ColdKeyboard> What do you guys use to measure/log power consumption of low power devices? I need suggestions. Something that can go down to uA range, even lower if possible and having the log capabilities
2019-07-02T05:28:58 < ColdKeyboard> Especially looking forward to dongs' reply :)
2019-07-02T05:33:16 < Thorn> ColdKeyboard: apparently this thing is good (I haven't tried) https://www.unwireddevices.com/products/developers/energymon/
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2019-07-02T05:36:03 < ColdKeyboard> Thorn: Russian, noice. As one of my teaching assistants would say "It's russian. Very good" :)
2019-07-02T05:38:07 < ColdKeyboard> Where can you order one?
2019-07-02T05:39:21 < Thorn> dunno actually. he may have actually manufactured a batch and that's it
2019-07-02T05:39:30 < Cracki> click here https://www.unwireddevices.com/shop/
2019-07-02T05:39:32 < Thorn> I was thinking about cloning it
2019-07-02T05:39:51 < Thorn> >preorder
2019-07-02T05:39:56 < Cracki> oh
2019-07-02T05:40:06 < Cracki> that shop overview at least has a way to put it "in the cart"
2019-07-02T05:40:36 < Cracki> maybe preorder means individual assembly
2019-07-02T05:44:56 < Thorn> I took my usb stack from 2017 (with an F0 driver), changed the architecture, pieced together clock config for L0, and guess what, it enumerates
2019-07-02T05:45:38 < Thorn> moreover, it had a bug on F0, I don't see it anymore
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2019-07-02T05:59:04 < ColdKeyboard> Does ST have a mcu that is designed only for touch/cap sense?
2019-07-02T05:59:41 < ColdKeyboard> I know some manufacturers have like 5-8 pin MCUs that are designed for a very specific purpose. Microchip has a ton of them for all kinds of application.
2019-07-02T06:03:57 < Cracki> _only_? sounds like a specialized ic instead of an MCU
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2019-07-02T06:07:21 < Cracki> for years mcus have been growing "capacitive touch" peripherals that can use dozens of pins
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2019-07-02T07:24:03 < mawk> I was on the right track BrainDamage 
2019-07-02T07:24:12 < mawk> I checked with wikipedia, I have the right values for laplacian
2019-07-02T07:24:26 < mawk> so indeed the computation was supposed to be this horrible
2019-07-02T07:24:40 < mawk> god put this in the way of men to scare them away from mathematics
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2019-07-02T09:46:03 < Thorn> Orion abort test T - 4 h, press conf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs3cgNghDDk
2019-07-02T10:02:58 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/JgHzrN9.png the fuck is this math symbol
2019-07-02T10:03:10 < dongs> i cant selecet it because the shit is written in some fucking mathml shit so i cant google
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2019-07-02T10:16:48 < Thorn> dongs: set membership
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2019-07-02T10:58:09 < dongs> https://www.ipc.fukuoka-u.ac.jp/service/ntp/public_ntp_en/ haha lol
2019-07-02T10:58:15 < dongs> thorn, what the hell is that in english
2019-07-02T10:58:24 < dongs> its liek E { 0, 1, 2 }
2019-07-02T10:58:29 < dongs> so it means the number is any of those ?
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2019-07-02T11:08:51 < jly> Let's check the June2019 count
2019-07-02T11:09:10 < dongs> more like Jude2019
2019-07-02T11:09:17 < jly> 20
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2019-07-02T11:31:18 < jadew> dongs, yes
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2019-07-02T12:11:02 < karlp> Thorn: using more battery when trying to connect vs when connected is a classic gsm problem too.
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2019-07-02T12:13:50 < jly> can you imagine a world without java
2019-07-02T12:16:20 < dongs> yes
2019-07-02T12:16:22 < dongs> its a good one
2019-07-02T12:17:45 < jly> :D
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2019-07-02T13:31:12 < jly> m
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2019-07-02T13:33:26 < zyp> karlp, it's kinda obvious too
2019-07-02T13:34:13 < zyp> when you're connected, phone knows a timeslot to be awake and how much tx power required to reach the station
2019-07-02T13:34:48 < zyp> when you're trying to connect, you need to be awake to listen for beacons and shout as hard as you can at them to attempt to get heard
2019-07-02T13:39:45 < karlp> zyp: sure, but it's only obvious when you've seen it and gone, oh, yeah, I guess.
2019-07-02T13:40:19 < karlp> joe on the street is just like, "I get shitty coverage and my battery life is terrible"
2019-07-02T13:41:13 < zyp> I noticed my phone used unusually much battery when I were in london, I attribute part of that to no coverage in the underground
2019-07-02T13:41:30 < zyp> (but most of it to using the gps a lot)
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2019-07-02T14:17:06 < Cracki> same goes for train rides in rural areas. either you have no towers or they move past so quickly.
2019-07-02T14:19:02 < Cracki> a bunch of apps can be blamed too. the nav app for the local public transport uses data frequently (if not much), but it also does screenlock and gps lock even when it's not in the foreground and the display is off
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2019-07-02T16:15:20 < karlp> woop woop, beat intertek at their own game, "I’ve discussed this with my reviewer and we agree with eTactica in this case"
2019-07-02T16:28:43 < englishman> what was the issue?
2019-07-02T16:31:06 < karlp> they wanted us to put warning marks on our devices.
2019-07-02T16:31:12 < karlp> we didn't feel they were applicable.
2019-07-02T16:32:54 < BrainDamage> warning marks like "known to induce cancer by the state of california"?
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2019-07-02T16:40:10 < karlp> no, one that says "must consult manual before operation because of fatal hazards"
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2019-07-02T18:23:34 < bitmask> grrr can i just hack my router to use 10 amps? 
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2019-07-02T18:24:31 < zyp> no
2019-07-02T18:24:42 < bitmask> I wasn't being serious ;)
2019-07-02T18:25:10 < zyp> me neither
2019-07-02T18:25:14 < bitmask> ha
2019-07-02T18:26:51 < Ultrasauce> run it off both phases
2019-07-02T18:26:53 < Ultrasauce> what could go wrong
2019-07-02T18:26:58 < bitmask> heh
2019-07-02T18:27:09 < bitmask> I need to bite the bullet and set up a mesh network
2019-07-02T18:27:19 < bitmask> I wish gay ass xfinity would let me use a moca adapter
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2019-07-02T18:28:00 < bitmask> I was gonna do that with fios and then the house owners decided to switch to comcast...
2019-07-02T18:28:13 < bitmask> I need a job
2019-07-02T18:28:30 < zyp> what's moca?
2019-07-02T18:28:40 < bitmask> multimedia? over coaxial
2019-07-02T18:29:12 < bitmask> use your coax wires instead of ethernet
2019-07-02T18:29:35 < zyp> so ethernet over coax?
2019-07-02T18:29:44 < bitmask> yea
2019-07-02T18:29:47 < qyx> hpna?
2019-07-02T18:29:51 < zyp> why?
2019-07-02T18:29:52 < bitmask> its what cable companies use now for everything
2019-07-02T18:30:15 < zyp> uh
2019-07-02T18:30:21 < zyp> not here
2019-07-02T18:30:28 < bitmask> well here then
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2019-07-02T18:31:10 < bitmask> both fios and comcast use it, fios lets you use a moca adapter to add onto the ecosystem, comcast has problems and it causes you to disconnect all the time if you try to use one
2019-07-02T18:31:15 < zyp> I think anything coax left here is dvb-c/docsis
2019-07-02T18:31:57 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Bonded-Ethernet-Adapter-ECB6200S02/dp/B013J7OBUU/
2019-07-02T18:33:23 < zyp> oh, right, it lets you run LAN over coax, not WAN?
2019-07-02T18:34:18 < bitmask> yea, you have a main router and that router accepts local ethernet and moca connections
2019-07-02T18:34:37 < zyp> okay, that makes more sense
2019-07-02T18:35:11 < karlp> makes sense for america :)
2019-07-02T18:35:30 < zyp> yeah, I mean, makes sense if you have a bunch of internal coax cabling already
2019-07-02T18:35:35 < bitmask> right
2019-07-02T18:36:14 < zyp> the only places I've lived with coax cable-tv only had a single outlet, so not a lot of points to run LAN between :)
2019-07-02T18:36:16 < bitmask> it seems to work well though so whats the problem? only need to make sure you have a moca filter so your neighbors dont see your porn watching habits
2019-07-02T18:36:38 < karlp> bitmask: what zyp said, we don't have coax wired all over the house already :)
2019-07-02T18:36:52 < bitmask> I see
2019-07-02T18:37:37 < bitmask> is it common to have ethernet through house or most lpeople don't have any system?
2019-07-02T18:38:03 < bitmask> single entry point
2019-07-02T18:38:44 < zyp> for newly built houses here it varies a lot
2019-07-02T18:40:07 < zyp> as you already know, my current place is a bit over the top
2019-07-02T18:40:25 < karlp> iceland just never had cable, so uhf and splitters for some tv, but dsl for the rest, and now fibre.
2019-07-02T18:40:27 < bitmask> yea ive seen all the work youre doing, looks like something id enjoy doing
2019-07-02T18:40:41 < zyp> previous apartment I lived in only had fiber run directly to the tv spot, no other ethernet wiring from there
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2019-07-02T18:41:26 < zyp> previous apartment before that had fiber to a small distribution panel next to the electrical distribution panel
2019-07-02T18:41:40 < zyp> but then only a double cat5 run to the tv spot, no other ethernet outlets
2019-07-02T18:42:32 < zyp> i think most modern houses are somewhere between those points
2019-07-02T18:44:00 < bitmask> why is everything falling apart...
2019-07-02T18:44:04 < zyp> as for houses built before ethernet was a thing, it depends on whether the owner got it put in later :)
2019-07-02T18:44:29 < bitmask> what can cause a stepper motor to click at a certain point in its rotation? its not slipping or anything
2019-07-02T18:45:41 < zyp> at my parents' place, there's a router in the basement with five ethernet runs or so to various rooms, semi-retrofitted
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2019-07-02T18:57:11 < qyx> at my parents house there was nothing except TN-C
2019-07-02T18:57:39 < qyx> I bought 4 tp-link powerline adapters
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2019-07-02T19:03:11 < karlp> I pulled out some old phone line runs between rooms, and actualyl, one coax run for uhf tv that went between two rooms, replaced them both with double runs of cat6
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2019-07-02T19:20:06 < zyp> yeah, I think some of the networking at my parents' place is also in conduit originally laid for coax
2019-07-02T19:20:35 < zyp> or maybe it was for phone lines
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2019-07-02T20:04:12 < antto> NSFW cat pic: https://i.imgur.com/Vue8bQA.jpg
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2019-07-02T20:29:32 < turnip420> I have an application that reads from an ADC at 10khz then writes to an ascii float on an SD card. However the sprintf takes ~300uS (using fastest sprintf lib I could find) which blows over my 100uS deadline.
2019-07-02T20:29:52 < turnip420> Is there any better way to do this?
2019-07-02T20:30:02 < turnip420> Other than just writing a bin to the SD card
2019-07-02T20:30:13 < turnip420> STM32L4, ~80Mhz
2019-07-02T20:30:54 < jpa-> if you can make it fixed point decimal, that'll probably make it a bit faster
2019-07-02T20:31:23 < jpa-> but remember that SD cards will take 100-500ms pauses every now and then for wear levelling, so you'll need a lot of buffer space
2019-07-02T20:32:20 < zyp> when you need it to be fast, converting to floating point and then ascii sounds like a pretty bad idea
2019-07-02T20:32:23 < qyx> yeah, when I was logging ~300KB/s on F4, I needed almost the whole SRAM for buffering
2019-07-02T20:32:37 < qyx> (192K)
2019-07-02T20:33:30 < zyp> personally I'd just write a binary integer and later postprocess it into desired format
2019-07-02T20:33:32 < qyx> turnip420: du you need it to be a decimal number?
2019-07-02T20:33:58 < qyx> sometimes I do 0xabcdefgh<delimiter>
2019-07-02T20:34:13 < qyx> lol du
2019-07-02T20:34:22 < turnip420> The fact that it's a float only slows it down by 150uS
2019-07-02T20:34:39 < turnip420> So if I was to do ints, it would still be 150uS
2019-07-02T20:34:42 < jpa-> only by 150% your deadline? :)
2019-07-02T20:35:00 < qyx> frite your own floattostr then
2019-07-02T20:35:07 < jpa-> that sounds pretty slow, but i haven't had printf on any speedy paths
2019-07-02T20:35:11 < qyx> without format string parsing and stuff
2019-07-02T20:35:33 < jpa-> https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/libfixmath/blob/master/libfixmath/fix16_str.c#L40   here's some fixed point to decimal integer code, but i haven't benchmarked it
2019-07-02T20:35:39 < turnip420> I got a real fast printf lib from github, for embedded
2019-07-02T20:36:02 < zyp> not doing printf is still faster :)
2019-07-02T20:36:33 < turnip420> Okay I'll give that a shot
2019-07-02T20:36:52 < zyp> also, 300µs to print a float doesn't sound real fast to me, that's 24k cycles
2019-07-02T20:37:21 < zyp> 150µs to print an integer sounds even worse
2019-07-02T20:37:35 < qyx> what about http://sourceware.org/newlib/libc.html#gvcvt
2019-07-02T20:37:43 < karlp> (how are you actually measuring things for starters)
2019-07-02T20:37:48 < jpa-> it might be one of those libraries that makes a callback somewhere for every character
2019-07-02T20:37:58 < turnip420> zyp: It's 8x floats
2019-07-02T20:38:34 < turnip420> It's a 16bit ADC, there a float conversion step which is lightning fast. Then the sprintf 8x floats into a CSV string takes 300uS
2019-07-02T20:39:14 < turnip420> https://github.com/mpaland/printf
2019-07-02T20:39:16 < turnip420> That's the lib
2019-07-02T20:39:18 < zyp> are you multiplying the floats by anything before printing?
2019-07-02T20:39:36 < qyx> fully loaded printf implementation
2019-07-02T20:39:37 < qyx> > slow
2019-07-02T20:39:46 < turnip420> No, they're getting converted in an ADC function elsewhere, that step is really fast
2019-07-02T20:40:01 < turnip420> My ST has an FPU
2019-07-02T20:40:27 < qyx> ok, so it seems you are not willing to get rid of floats
2019-07-02T20:40:32 < zyp> so basically you're turning integers directly into floats and printing them?
2019-07-02T20:40:36 < qyx> did you try some lib for converting floats to strings?
2019-07-02T20:40:50 < qyx> and I mean not a printf implementation
2019-07-02T20:40:55 < turnip420> qyx: Not yet, I think that's my next step
2019-07-02T20:40:57 < qyx> because printf parses format strings and stuff
2019-07-02T20:41:46 < karlp> qyx: heh, was wondering why I'd never heard of gcvt :) "neither are ansi"
2019-07-02T20:41:53 < qyx> if you are using newlib, I would try that function exactly for that prupose
2019-07-02T20:41:57 < qyx> karlp: me mneither
2019-07-02T20:42:03 < qyx> but apparentyl it exists
2019-07-02T20:45:06 < turnip420> When you say newlib, should I be looking into newlib nano?
2019-07-02T20:45:30 < zyp> nano is optimized for size, not for speed
2019-07-02T20:45:54 < zyp> size, speed, features, pick two
2019-07-02T20:46:03 < turnip420> Want speed pls
2019-07-02T20:46:07 < turnip420> https://sourceware.org/newlib/
2019-07-02T20:46:12 < turnip420> Should just grab that?
2019-07-02T20:46:19 < zyp> probably not
2019-07-02T20:46:24 < turnip420> darn
2019-07-02T20:46:35 < zyp> newlib is most likely the libc already included with your compiler toolchain
2019-07-02T20:46:40 < zyp> at least if you're using gcc
2019-07-02T20:48:42 < turnip420> --specs=nano.specs is the ldflag, I guess that will link nano
2019-07-02T20:48:52 < zyp> yes
2019-07-02T20:55:10 < turnip420> ecvtbuf - Is this what I should be looking at?
2019-07-02T20:57:41 < turnip420> What on earth... it doesn't put the negative sign or decimal point it
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2019-07-02T21:35:43 < turnip420> 82us to do one float to string using fcvtbuf...
2019-07-02T21:35:45 < turnip420> :(
2019-07-02T21:37:38 < Cracki> https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=3192369
2019-07-02T21:37:44 < Cracki> here, that's google's take on it. faster.
2019-07-02T21:38:02 < Cracki> nvm, you want it embedded embedded
2019-07-02T21:38:55 < Cracki> https://github.com/ulfjack/ryu
2019-07-02T21:39:03 < Cracki> it might be efficient even on cortex m ;)
2019-07-02T21:51:10 < turnip420> mmm
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2019-07-02T22:04:57 < Cracki> or maybe do NOT try to print all 10000 values per second
2019-07-02T22:05:14 < Cracki> oh, write to sd card. yeah write binary.
2019-07-02T22:07:53 < Cracki> if you wanna be fancy, write a WAV file with those 16 bit ints. you can listen to your data.
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2019-07-02T22:27:40 < qyx> yeah and put it in influxdb
2019-07-02T22:27:42 < qyx> Laurenceb__ approved
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2019-07-02T22:40:27 < superbia> evening Steffanx daddy
2019-07-02T22:40:36 < Steffanx> CRT is that you?
2019-07-02T22:41:29 < superbia> jobs done Steffanx 
2019-07-02T22:41:50 < Steffanx> for ever?
2019-07-02T22:41:59 < superbia> no i just merged into develop
2019-07-02T22:42:34 < superbia> i need to find a retarded guy to design me pcb for my startup
2019-07-02T22:42:36 < Steffanx> where can we see the result?
2019-07-02T22:42:48 < Steffanx> Ask dongs.
2019-07-02T22:43:30 < superbia> it's like an internal tool Steffanx 
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2019-07-02T22:43:34 < superbia> only if you get a job here i guess
2019-07-02T22:45:38 < Steffanx> if i only knew where "here" is :P
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2019-07-02T22:47:10 < Steffanx> whoa, mr tectu
2019-07-02T22:47:31 < superbia> what is you doing Steffanx, startups?
2019-07-02T22:48:20 < Steffanx> im just a work-slave
2019-07-02T22:49:39 < superbia> here waiting for the new iMac PRO
2019-07-02T22:50:05 < superbia> no holodays, saving $
2019-07-02T22:51:12 < turnip420> Cracki: Thanks
2019-07-02T22:51:50 < jly> tectu
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2019-07-02T23:04:13 < superbia> system updated, shower initiated, bedtime activated
2019-07-02T23:05:24 < jly> o/
2019-07-02T23:05:38 < superbia> ciao jly 
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2019-07-03T02:08:32 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/4AWn6Qa
2019-07-03T02:08:41 < bitmask> Me + fusion 360 + curves = yuck
2019-07-03T02:10:27 < bitmask> haha its an ugly duct-ling
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2019-07-03T04:55:22 < aandrew> better than me
2019-07-03T04:55:24 < aandrew> I have to learn that shit
2019-07-03T04:55:32 < aandrew> I can do very very simple shit in ... fusion360
2019-07-03T04:55:42 < aandrew> I really do like constraint-based editing though
2019-07-03T04:59:02 < Cracki> bitmask, how'd you do these curves?
2019-07-03T04:59:17 < Cracki> is that a sweep/loft or something fancier?
2019-07-03T04:59:58 < Cracki> aandrew, rounded edges are simple, that's just a fillet (or chamfer for edgy-round) and clicking what you want
2019-07-03T05:00:37 < bitmask> combo of sweeps, lofts, and revolves
2019-07-03T05:00:42 < Cracki> sweep and loft work with sketches. a sweep uses a 2d/3d sketch of a path, and sweeps some other sketch along that path. that gives you a swept surface or volume
2019-07-03T05:01:49 < Cracki> a loft takes two or more sketches and attempts to stretch a rubber surface between those. you can loft between a square and a circle and it tries its best to match points of same (relative) distance along each path, or some other magic
2019-07-03T05:01:54 < bitmask> I don't use sweeps very often and forgot for a bit that you could move points of a spline in 3d space
2019-07-03T05:02:10 < Cracki> I've been wanting to get into whatever kind of freeform they offer. couldn't be assed yet
2019-07-03T05:03:38 < aandrew> Cracki: yes, that's part of "simple" IMO
2019-07-03T05:03:39 < bitmask> I saw a video where a guy just made a 2d shape, hit a shortcut, extruded it, used the scale/move tools to quickly pull out a shape a section at a time, I wanna learn how to do that, I forget what video it was
2019-07-03T05:03:45 < Cracki> I think I used a 3d sketch once, in a tutorial. didn't quite feel in control, or "artistic" enough
2019-07-03T05:04:14 < aandrew> yeah that's what I did for a mounting bracket
2019-07-03T05:04:25 < Cracki> they call that "direct editing" or something
2019-07-03T05:04:31 < aandrew> sketched (with constraints) a rectangular shape with some holes set in it, then extruded the surface to the right height
2019-07-03T05:04:48 < Cracki> basically any surface you can pull on. you can also sketch on any flat surface. curved surfaces require some more trickery
2019-07-03T05:05:08 < aandrew> then spent over an hour dicking aorund with trying to get the holes to actually be cylinders with holes in them so I could embed an M3 brass insert into them. it mostly worked but one or two would not extrude correctly and give me weird problems
2019-07-03T05:05:22 < Cracki> heh.
2019-07-03T05:05:39 < Cracki> maybe look for the sheet metal mode. that can simplify some things, or complicate them.
2019-07-03T05:06:04 < Cracki> apparently fusion360 can model threads. in inventor it's _always_ just a texture (unless you get one of those plugins)
2019-07-03T05:06:40 < Cracki> sounds like you tried intersecting solids
2019-07-03T05:06:54 < Cracki> autodesk really wants you to work from surfaces, sketch things, and extrude them
2019-07-03T05:07:29 < bitmask> https://f360ap.autodesk.com/courses/conceptual-modeling-fundamentals/lessons/lesson-2-create-and-modify-in-the-sculpt-workspace
2019-07-03T05:07:31 < bitmask> ahh its freeform stuffs
2019-07-03T05:07:38 < aandrew> but it worked out in the end
2019-07-03T05:07:52 < bitmask> thats not the video i saw but same general idea
2019-07-03T05:09:07 < Cracki> some artists I watch use stuff like zbrush and graphics tablets and 3d force feedback *stylus* thingies
2019-07-03T05:09:36 < bitmask> yea zbrush seems pretty popular
2019-07-03T05:09:38 < aandrew> I was always amazed watching the mechanical guys doing their shit in creo
2019-07-03T05:09:38 < Cracki> I can really recommend getting at least some kind of space navigator/3d mouse
2019-07-03T05:09:49 < aandrew> mind you they felt the same watching me work too
2019-07-03T05:09:57 < Cracki> secondary hand for moving around, primary for manipulating things
2019-07-03T05:10:43 < Cracki> hmmm I might work through that tutorial...
2019-07-03T05:11:35 < Cracki> ordered me one of those F303 boards (chinese robotdyn brand) and I want a little plastic around them like I have for arduinos and the other gumstick-sized stm32 boards I have
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2019-07-03T05:42:45 < dongs> still cant figure out how to hide and connect to net in altidumb
2019-07-03T05:43:07 < aandrew> yeah I haven't fucked with that shit in a long time
2019-07-03T05:43:16 < dongs> its gone in the new tabfuck UI
2019-07-03T05:43:57 < dongs> The Hide option is enabled
2019-07-03T05:43:58 < dongs> The Connect To field contains the specific power net name
2019-07-03T05:44:03 < dongs> ... i dont have a "Connect To " field
2019-07-03T05:44:31 < dongs> i wonder if its a "parameter" now
2019-07-03T05:45:37 < dongs> Owner - the parent part to which the pin is associated. For a single-part component, this entry will always be 1; it is only meaningful for a multi-part component. A multi-part component also includes a non-graphical part, Part Zero. Part Zero is used for pins that are to be included in all parts of the multi-part component, for example power pins.
2019-07-03T05:45:42 < dongs> hmm
2019-07-03T06:15:14 < dongs> no idea
2019-07-03T06:15:19 < dongs> this part zero seems like some new shit
2019-07-03T06:15:22 < dongs> and it doesnt work (of course)
2019-07-03T06:15:24 < dongs> fucking garbage
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2019-07-03T06:35:01 < dongs> the new gloss/route "helping" options are certainly making routing more annnoying
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2019-07-03T08:47:57 < dongs> R2COM, i saw someone using mental graphics layout last week
2019-07-03T08:48:03 < dongs> it looked terrible
2019-07-03T08:48:09 < dongs> and they were using orcad cIS capture
2019-07-03T08:48:11 < dongs> for schematic shit
2019-07-03T08:48:13 < dongs> also disgusting
2019-07-03T08:48:25 < dongs> i will never understand how people can use two completely separate packages for sch and pcb
2019-07-03T08:48:29 < rajkosto> they couldnt tick that option
2019-07-03T08:48:30 < dongs> like, you lose all the cross reference shit etc
2019-07-03T08:48:33 < rajkosto> that they arent part of mentor graphics
2019-07-03T08:48:58 < dongs> imagine having to export a bunch of shitty netlists and crap to sync sch to pcb
2019-07-03T08:49:05 < dongs> and hope shit works
2019-07-03T08:49:27 < ds2> what cross reference?
2019-07-03T08:49:40 < dongs> huh? like select part on pcb -> highlight it in schematic
2019-07-03T08:49:41 < dongs> etc
2019-07-03T08:49:51 < dongs> and the otehr way around
2019-07-03T08:50:01 < ds2> oh like that... the designators are kept 
2019-07-03T08:50:02 < dongs> and in general quick updates when its inside a single tool
2019-07-03T08:50:26 < ds2> that quick update thing is a 2 edge sword
2019-07-03T08:51:01 < ds2> splitting the packages has a nice benefit of preventing mistakes from being back propagated with a formal change process
2019-07-03T08:51:48 < ds2> without a...
2019-07-03T08:52:07 < dongs> donno , altidumb has ECO stuff for front/back propagation
2019-07-03T08:52:09 < dongs> works for me.
2019-07-03T08:53:27 < rajkosto> it works the same as in eagle
2019-07-03T08:53:32 < rajkosto> you click button it generates eco
2019-07-03T08:53:39 < ds2> how do you prevent a rev2 schematic change from suddenly appearing in a rev1 layout? (i.e. rev2 is being worked on w/new features and rev1 is getting layed out)
2019-07-03T08:53:43 < dongs> yeah but who the fuck actually uses eagle in 2019
2019-07-03T08:53:55 < dongs> ds2? why would it
2019-07-03T08:54:00 < dongs> they're completely separate projects
2019-07-03T08:54:00 < rajkosto> people who have less money than who use OrCAD
2019-07-03T08:54:09 < ds2> ah you track it as seperate projects
2019-07-03T08:54:17 < dongs> yea
2019-07-03T08:54:38 < dongs> once rev1 is done its frozen, if I find shit i need to change i'll dupe the project, rename it to rev2 and go from there
2019-07-03T08:54:45 < ds2> I try to work it like SW... wish there was better branching in EDA
2019-07-03T08:55:07 < ds2> dongs: rev1 may be frozen from the schematic point of view but not from layout
2019-07-03T08:55:12 < dongs> yeah, sure
2019-07-03T08:55:33 < dongs> but i also generally pinswap stuff during layout
2019-07-03T08:55:47 < dongs> so schematic being done doesn't mean it won't be slightly changed when layout is done
2019-07-03T08:56:02 < dongs> but shit like new feature or something then i'd copy it to rev2
2019-07-03T08:56:09 < ds2> i can see that
2019-07-03T08:56:34 < ds2> but that has gotten messy hence the reason I can see having 2 packages to force some discipline
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2019-07-03T09:48:12 < dongs> holy shit
2019-07-03T09:48:25 < dongs> you can do place->object from file (bitmap) via the OLE shit in atlidumb finally
2019-07-03T09:48:28 < dongs> but you cant resize it still
2019-07-03T09:48:30 < dongs> what the fuck damn
2019-07-03T09:48:59 < jadew> to place graphics?
2019-07-03T09:49:07 < dongs> yes...................
2019-07-03T09:49:10 < jadew> wasn't it able to do that like... 10 years ago?
2019-07-03T09:49:24 < dongs> i dont know, at some point you were able to ctrl+v stuff AND ACTUALLY RESIZE IT ONCE
2019-07-03T09:49:27 < dongs> but now it doesnt even bother
2019-07-03T09:49:46 < dongs> and it disregards DPI and shit
2019-07-03T09:49:50 < dongs> so i cant actually figure out any way to resize it
2019-07-03T09:50:59 < dongs> if I resize the bitmap to fit, it becomes blocky as fuck
2019-07-03T09:52:29 < jadew> quite similar to what you get from kicad
2019-07-03T09:53:09 < jadew> except it doesn't have DPI problems, you can have details as fine as you like
2019-07-03T09:54:10 < jadew> I'm only working with vector graphics and I have to convert that to a footprint before inserting it
2019-07-03T09:54:15 < jadew> so I guess there's an extra step there
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2019-07-03T10:03:10 < dongs> holy shit, inkspace is acutally so fucking bad
2019-07-03T10:03:11 < dongs> what the fuck
2019-07-03T10:03:14 < dongs> how can anyone use this shit for real
2019-07-03T10:03:19 < dongs> the interface is beyond unintuitive
2019-07-03T10:03:21 < dongs> and like
2019-07-03T10:03:25 < dongs> when you open something in it
2019-07-03T10:03:35 < dongs> it becomes "maximized" but jumps into top left of t he screen
2019-07-03T10:03:38 < dongs> in like 320x240 window
2019-07-03T10:03:48 < dongs> and you can't resize it because windows thinks its maximized
2019-07-03T10:03:58 < dongs> so you have to click 'restore' button first, then it moves a bit, then you can resize and fullscree nit
2019-07-03T10:04:02 < dongs> what the fuck this is like basic shit
2019-07-03T10:04:09 < dongs> how do you fail such basic shit in an app
2019-07-03T10:06:41 < jadew> dongs, I haven't had that problem
2019-07-03T10:06:45 < jadew> had others, but not that one
2019-07-03T10:11:33 < Steffanx> Is it rage o'clock?
2019-07-03T10:14:18 < specing> dongs: I agree
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2019-07-03T10:26:17 < dongs> oh gawd
2019-07-03T10:26:22 < dongs> fontforge is way worse than dickscape
2019-07-03T10:26:27 < dongs> if you open a menu
2019-07-03T10:26:30 < dongs> and alt-tab away to another app
2019-07-03T10:26:35 < dongs> the menu sticks on top of everything
2019-07-03T10:26:38 < dongs> holy shit 
2019-07-03T10:26:41 < Steffanx> Why dont you buy illustrator like a pro?
2019-07-03T10:26:52 < dongs> beausae all im trying to do is stick a logo on a pcb
2019-07-03T10:27:39 < jadew> dongs, I use fontforge from the command line only, works fine like that
2019-07-03T10:27:46 < jadew> it has scripting support
2019-07-03T10:28:05 < dongs> .............................................................................................
2019-07-03T10:28:06 < jadew> if you have some repetitive shit you have to do, that's the best way to go
2019-07-03T10:28:06 < Steffanx> Your time ain't free dongs. 
2019-07-03T10:28:21 < Steffanx> Scripting as in python right?
2019-07-03T10:28:25 < jadew> no
2019-07-03T10:28:28 < jadew> it has some custom shit
2019-07-03T10:28:36 < jadew> it's easy to understand tho
2019-07-03T10:28:45 < dongs> i imported a svg that was black/white filled shapes (autotraced from bmp)
2019-07-03T10:28:49 < dongs> into fagforge
2019-07-03T10:28:55 < dongs> and it lost all the background stuff
2019-07-03T10:29:28 < dongs> hm it looks correct in notepad
2019-07-03T10:29:31 < dongs> but altidumb fails it of course
2019-07-03T10:29:34 < dongs> for fucks sake
2019-07-03T10:29:46 < jadew> right, speaking of that, one more thing I found out about working with vector graphics is that lots of tools don't really implement it properly
2019-07-03T10:30:16 < jadew> inkscape does, because it's a vector editing software, but it seems it's unreasonable to expect other tools to understand SVGs at the same level
2019-07-03T10:30:30 < jadew> so what you do, is make sure you're feeding them simple SVGs
2019-07-03T10:30:38 < jadew> (just paths)
2019-07-03T10:30:50 < dongs> its simple
2019-07-03T10:31:02 < jadew> so if you have any standard shit in there (arcs, or anything) you should select it all and do Object to Path
2019-07-03T10:31:16 < jadew> then stroke it or fill it, or whatever
2019-07-03T10:31:29 < dongs> in what, dickscape?
2019-07-03T10:31:30 < dongs> or ff
2019-07-03T10:31:38 < jadew> in inkscape
2019-07-03T10:31:43 < dongs> its already fine there
2019-07-03T10:31:46 < jadew> then you save it for the final tool
2019-07-03T10:32:03 < jadew> yeah, but you have to dumb it down in there before saving it
2019-07-03T10:32:15 < jadew> so other tools can understand it
2019-07-03T10:32:56 < jadew> if that doesn't work, see if you can come up with different approaches for creating that bg
2019-07-03T10:33:13 < dongs> the logo looks OK in notepad
2019-07-03T10:33:17 < dongs> altium butchers it
2019-07-03T10:33:24 < dongs> but i cant figure out how to set height of htat shit
2019-07-03T10:33:37 < jadew> in inkscape?
2019-07-03T10:33:45 < dongs> no, in the foucking funt
2019-07-03T10:33:49 < dongs> it made the shit 1000x1000
2019-07-03T10:33:54 < dongs> but hte logo is only liek 1000x200
2019-07-03T10:36:40 < dongs> FUCK
2019-07-03T10:36:47 < dongs> nigger opensores trash
2019-07-03T10:37:22 < dongs> ...................
2019-07-03T10:37:25 < dongs> it saved broken shit
2019-07-03T10:37:29 < dongs> despite me clicking NO on saving
2019-07-03T10:37:32 < dongs> gg opensore trash
2019-07-03T10:38:08 < dongs> k fuck this
2019-07-03T10:38:20 < jadew> friend of mine just sent me a photo of an 18650 cell he just opened, bought from aliexpress
2019-07-03T10:38:24 < jadew> it's full of sand lol
2019-07-03T10:38:30 < dongs> lies
2019-07-03T10:39:58 < jadew> he said it didn't even have a smaller cell in there or anything like that
2019-07-03T10:40:02 < jadew> just sand haha
2019-07-03T10:40:14 < specing> Lol
2019-07-03T10:40:27 < specing> yeah that happens from ali fakes
2019-07-03T10:40:50 < specing> usually there is a smaller cell inside
2019-07-03T10:40:53 < specing> rofl
2019-07-03T10:41:17 < jadew> yeah
2019-07-03T10:48:37 < dongs> ok
2019-07-03T10:48:39 < dongs> used some webshit
2019-07-03T10:48:46 < dongs> which saves in svg, ttf, etc
2019-07-03T10:48:48 < dongs> for webfags
2019-07-03T10:48:51 < dongs> lets see if that one works better
2019-07-03T10:48:58 < dongs> also altium doenst update font list
2019-07-03T10:49:00 < dongs> have to restart
2019-07-03T10:49:05 < dongs> takes like 2 minutes to reopen
2019-07-03T10:50:33 < dongs> nope.
2019-07-03T10:50:33 < dongs> damn
2019-07-03T11:00:25 < dongs> Imported data will be put onto the current layer, adopting the color you have chosen for that layer. The PCB objects created during the paste process are automatically added to a Union. After pasting, the Union's editing handles can be used to fine-tune the size of the pasted image.
2019-07-03T11:00:30 < dongs> what
2019-07-03T11:00:59 < dongs> haha, it works
2019-07-03T11:00:59 < dongs> nice
2019-07-03T11:03:04 < dongs> wow, the resize union shit is totally unintuitive
2019-07-03T11:03:11 < dongs> cursor doesnt even change to resize handles
2019-07-03T11:03:12 < dongs> in the corners
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2019-07-03T11:18:10 < Steffanx> Jly has a altium license. He should report this bug.
2019-07-03T11:21:23 < jly> ty
2019-07-03T11:21:54 < jly> "hi altium im on irc and people keep saying naughty words"
2019-07-03T11:34:27 < zyp> sup sup
2019-07-03T11:34:48 < dongs> i finally figured out how to paste hirespics into altidumb, zyp
2019-07-03T11:34:58 < zyp> cool
2019-07-03T11:35:33 < dongs> uh, would you describe USB-C contacts as "spring-loaded"?
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2019-07-03T11:43:53 < dongs> ah, is ee waht they mean
2019-07-03T11:44:00 < dongs> the little springy tabs on the outer shell
2019-07-03T11:44:02 < dongs> that press inside
2019-07-03T11:44:12 < dongs> maybe to make a clicky sound when isnerting?
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2019-07-03T11:50:43 < dongs> damn
2019-07-03T11:50:53 < dongs> this usbc plug is $0.10 for SAMPLES
2019-07-03T11:50:57 < dongs> chinabrand
2019-07-03T11:51:18 < dongs> it has usb2.0+cc+sbu+vbus
2019-07-03T11:51:24 < dongs> thats actually kinda too dangerously cheap
2019-07-03T11:51:37 < dongs> like you start worry if it will fall apart after a couple insertions
2019-07-03T11:59:24 < dongs> oh well enough wank for today
2019-07-03T11:59:33 < dongs> pcie board done and pcb ordered
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2019-07-03T12:03:21 < specing> it definetely will at 10 cents
2019-07-03T12:14:41 < jadew> at 10c you should expect some sand somewhere in there
2019-07-03T12:16:40 < jadew> my chinese soldering iron holder for my chinese soldering iron arrived yesterday
2019-07-03T12:16:55 < jadew> looks very cute and seems to be decent quality
2019-07-03T12:17:02 < jadew> but the holes for the extra tip are stupid
2019-07-03T12:17:07 < jadew> *extra tips
2019-07-03T12:17:34 < jadew> the tips end up tilted
2019-07-03T12:17:52 < jadew> and not at a consistent angle and direction
2019-07-03T12:19:00 < jly> just like all of those motherfuckers
2019-07-03T12:19:49 < jadew> I decided to just keep the tips in a drawer
2019-07-03T12:21:01 < qyx> too much ocpd probably
2019-07-03T12:25:31 < jadew> qyx, I've gotten to the point where I wonder I did something right and then I wonder if I wonder that because of OCD or because there's an actual reason to wonder about that
2019-07-03T12:26:01 < jadew> not sure if that's progress or not
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2019-07-03T12:37:02 < jadew> is there such a thing as conductive filament for 3d printing?
2019-07-03T12:37:23 < jadew> looks like there is
2019-07-03T12:37:27 < jadew> not cheap
2019-07-03T12:37:33 < jadew> 4 times the price of regular filament
2019-07-03T12:38:19 < jadew> wow, found one at $1/gram lol
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2019-07-03T12:40:13 < qyx> are you going to print a 20oz pcb?
2019-07-03T12:40:28 < jadew> nah, I just want some ESD safe boxes
2019-07-03T12:40:56 < qyx> esd paint?
2019-07-03T12:41:07 < jadew> that's an extra step
2019-07-03T12:41:14 < jadew> and messy too
2019-07-03T12:41:55 < jly> pay a chinaman
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2019-07-03T13:01:25 < zyp> jadew, what about carbon fiber filament?
2019-07-03T13:01:42 < zyp> I'd guess that is conductive enough for ESD purposes
2019-07-03T13:01:58 < jadew> zyp, yeah, it looks good
2019-07-03T13:02:10 < jadew> I just need to find a cheap one
2019-07-03T13:02:39 < zyp> keep in mind you might not wanna print that with a standard brass nozzle
2019-07-03T13:03:02 < jadew> not sure what kind of nozzle I have, but why is that?
2019-07-03T13:03:56 < zyp> brass is too soft, carbon fiber element will abrade it quickly
2019-07-03T13:04:21 < jadew> that's good to know, thanks
2019-07-03T13:31:55 < englishman> still no reply from cypress rep
2019-07-03T13:34:33 < englishman> Cloudflare outage caused by deploying bad regular expression that caused 100% CPU usage worldwide, dropping up to 82% of traffic
2019-07-03T13:34:50 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
2019-07-03T13:34:55 < jly> llol
2019-07-03T13:35:18 < jadew> did they show the regular expression?
2019-07-03T13:35:50 < englishman> no ;(
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2019-07-03T13:42:32 < zyp> fun
2019-07-03T13:43:52 < zyp> I did a cute fuckup the other day, I were setting up traefik on a cluster thing I were playing around with
2019-07-03T13:45:08 < zyp> it's a reverse proxy thing convenient for handling http with tls termination and forwarding to various services based on requested hostname
2019-07-03T13:45:21 < zyp> and it also has a http dashboard to monitor status
2019-07-03T13:46:02 < zyp> so I were configuring it up to forward a hostname back to its own dashboard
2019-07-03T13:46:22 < zyp> and got the port wrong, so it forwarded to its main port, that forwarded to its main port
2019-07-03T13:46:26 < zyp> ...
2019-07-03T14:04:31 < sync> the good ole packet cannon
2019-07-03T14:38:17 < zyp> yeah, apparently it doesn't limit number of connections so it went on until it consumed all available ram
2019-07-03T14:39:58 < englishman> anyone know of a rgmii phy with 1.5v vddio
2019-07-03T15:00:06 < mawk> it's like nginx with a dashboard then ?
2019-07-03T15:14:46 < zyp> mawk, yeah
2019-07-03T15:17:37 < mawk> my mom is a lawyer for a small worker union at the big trial of the late France Telecom state monopoly
2019-07-03T15:17:51 < mawk> around 2008 they had to let go a large number of people but you can't fire state employees
2019-07-03T15:18:05 < mawk> so the managers harrassed the employees so that they go by themselves
2019-07-03T15:18:17 < mawk> so many of them killed themselves, and now is the trial of the CEO
2019-07-03T15:18:26 < mawk> in a criminal court
2019-07-03T15:18:39 < mawk> and he cried, he's a good actor
2019-07-03T15:19:49 < specing> can't fire?u
2019-07-03T15:19:50 < specing> wut
2019-07-03T15:20:00 < mawk> yes you can't fire state employees
2019-07-03T15:20:14 < sync> you can make them redundant tho
2019-07-03T15:20:24 < specing> mawk: really?
2019-07-03T15:20:25 < mawk> you can force a mutation at the other end of the country, you can "put them in a closet" eg don't give work anymore
2019-07-03T15:20:27 < karlp> mawk's being dramatic, but it is very difficult
2019-07-03T15:20:28 < sync> they will still get their pension from the sate tho
2019-07-03T15:20:49 < mawk> but you can't terminate their contract
2019-07-03T15:20:56 < specing> what are 'state employees', anyway?
2019-07-03T15:21:05 < specing> employees of a state-owned company?
2019-07-03T15:21:11 < mawk> yes
2019-07-03T15:21:12 < sync> they get paid by the state
2019-07-03T15:21:19 < mawk> or employees by administrations
2019-07-03T15:21:23 < sync> doesn't have to be a state owned company
2019-07-03T15:23:31 < mawk> it's a relic of the communist coalition after the war
2019-07-03T15:23:41 < mawk> that and 35 hours work week and all the goodies
2019-07-03T15:23:54 < mawk> but also came before the war for some goodies
2019-07-03T15:24:01 < specing> in france?
2019-07-03T15:24:12 < mawk> yes
2019-07-03T15:24:27 < karlp> remember, socialism == communism in newspeak
2019-07-03T15:24:44 < mawk> they were real communists lol
2019-07-03T15:25:04 < mawk> that fought in the resistance so earned their place in the government
2019-07-03T15:25:41 < sync> here in germany being a state employee is currently a ripoff
2019-07-03T15:25:57 < sync> less pay than a regular employee and longer hours
2019-07-03T15:27:07 < jadew> in here a state employee earns roughly twice what private employees earn
2019-07-03T15:27:20 < jadew> and they're less qualified
2019-07-03T15:28:02 < jadew> lots of perks too, but if you need something from them, they make you feel like they're doing you a favor
2019-07-03T15:28:57 < jadew> very stupid situation, now private companies are basically competing with the state for employees (and they can't afford those salaries)
2019-07-03T15:29:45 < jadew> the irony being of course, that the private companies are paying the state salaries too, through taxes
2019-07-03T15:31:40 < qyx> lol what
2019-07-03T15:31:53 < qyx> state empl are paid better than private ones?
2019-07-03T15:32:09 < jadew> 200% or more
2019-07-03T15:32:16 < qyx> here it is the exact opposite
2019-07-03T15:32:23 < qyx> except the higher ones
2019-07-03T15:32:30 < qyx> parliament members and such
2019-07-03T15:32:34 < jadew> used to be the opposite here too, but the socialist party found a way to gain more votes
2019-07-03T15:33:03 < jadew> those voters are now theirs, it's unlikely they're going to vote against maintaining their life style
2019-07-03T15:34:26 < jadew> and that doesn't include the various perks
2019-07-03T15:34:46 < jadew> vacation vouchers (so they're on paid leave but their vacation is also paid)
2019-07-03T15:35:05 < jadew> various monthly bonuses, etc
2019-07-03T15:36:41 < jadew> as you can imagine it's a huge source of outrage
2019-07-03T15:37:20 < qyx> the whole states as implemented today are mostly redundant
2019-07-03T15:37:49 < qyx> it may be the case that smaller distributed societies with common goals would handle the world better
2019-07-03T15:37:54 < jadew> yeah, the state as an institution has sort of lost its focus
2019-07-03T15:38:07 < karlp> this is why we're all watching spain :)
2019-07-03T15:38:24 < jadew> what's happening there? I'm not up to date on that
2019-07-03T15:38:45 < karlp> catalonia?
2019-07-03T15:38:53 < jadew> oh, they want to break away?
2019-07-03T15:38:58 < jadew> did they do it?
2019-07-03T15:40:54 < englishman> all these rgmii phy are 1.8v except for closedsores broadcom shit
2019-07-03T15:44:46 < Thorn> is there a connector for this kind of fpc cable or is it designed to be soldered? 39 pins, 0.8mm https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32846048239.html
2019-07-03T15:48:48 -!- Mangy_Dog [~Mangy_Dog@94.11.204.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2019-07-03T15:48:55 < zyp> that looks like for soldering
2019-07-03T15:49:44 < Thorn> yeah
2019-07-03T15:50:00 < Thorn> their 3.5" is 40 pins 0.5mm, definitely designed for a connector
2019-07-03T15:50:46 < Thorn> with no margins left and right of the contact area, too
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2019-07-03T15:59:29 < jadew> 1T SSD @ ~$120
2019-07-03T15:59:36 < jadew> that's good, right?
2019-07-03T15:59:49 -!- abcd [53188737@dpb55.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-03T16:00:25 < specing> wait, ssds are almost $100 now?
2019-07-03T16:00:29 < specing> for 1TB?
2019-07-03T16:00:34 < jadew> looks like it
2019-07-03T16:00:36 < jadew> yeah
2019-07-03T16:01:04 < abcd> I have problem with ADC2 on stm32f103
2019-07-03T16:01:09 < specing> Wow jadew 
2019-07-03T16:01:19 < jadew> specing, https://www.emag.ro/solid-state-drive-ssd-kingston-a400-960gb-2-5-sata-iii-sa400s37-960g/pd/D39WYFBBM/
2019-07-03T16:01:21 < specing> 84 eur per terabyte of flash
2019-07-03T16:01:40 < abcd> configured with continous mode and without scand mod
2019-07-03T16:02:09 < abcd> but code frezes on 	ADC_SoftwareStartConvCmd(ADC2, ENABLE);	while (ADC_GetFlagStatus(ADC2, ADC_FLAG_EOC)==RESET);
2019-07-03T16:05:25 < abcd> when i test it with ADC1 everything works
2019-07-03T16:20:46 < qyx> uh oh somehow I expected to understand at least something from .ro
2019-07-03T16:20:57 < qyx> it reminds me .it more
2019-07-03T16:21:00 < englishman> huh
2019-07-03T16:21:02 < englishman> that's cheap
2019-07-03T16:21:06 < englishman> time to upgrade
2019-07-03T16:21:43 < jadew> qyx, you don't understand anything?
2019-07-03T16:22:02 < qyx> no.
2019-07-03T16:22:14 < jadew> Persoane fizice
2019-07-03T16:22:35 < jadew> Comanda produsul si vino
2019-07-03T16:22:40 < qyx> the first yes
2019-07-03T16:23:36 < jadew> eh, there's always google translate
2019-07-03T16:24:11 < BrainDamage> I can understand approx one word every 4
2019-07-03T16:24:37 < qyx> .pl is ok for example
2019-07-03T16:26:03 < jadew> .pl is gibberish to me
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2019-07-03T16:44:11 < sync> yes
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2019-07-03T16:55:13 < karlp> englishman:what's 300mV between friends anyway?
2019-07-03T16:55:44 < karlp> abcd: did you turn on clocks for adc2?
2019-07-03T16:55:48 < karlp> do you have adc2 on your part?
2019-07-03T16:56:09 < abcd> i turned clock on
2019-07-03T16:56:28 < karlp> are you _sure_ :)
2019-07-03T16:56:38 < karlp> gib codz plz
2019-07-03T16:56:53 < abcd> and i'm quite sure stm32f103c8 has 2 adc
2019-07-03T16:57:20 < karlp> well, soundsd like you're perfectly capable of sorting it all out then :)
2019-07-03T16:58:25 < karlp> are you sure you're followed all the startup conditions? you'r enot relying on something that's implicit for adc1 but needs to be explicit for adc2?
2019-07-03T16:58:44 < abcd> no i'm not
2019-07-03T16:59:02 < abcd> i simply copied startup from ADC1 and changed every 1 to 2
2019-07-03T16:59:40 < abcd> but from what i understand there isn't any difference
2019-07-03T17:09:17 < abcd> i gave up
2019-07-03T17:14:26 < zyp> double check that you turned on the clock
2019-07-03T17:15:13 < zyp> when you deadlock on waiting for a register to have some value, it's usually because the register will never have any other value than 0 when the clock is off :)
2019-07-03T17:16:01 < abcd> RCC_APB2PeriphClockCmd(RCC_APB2Periph_ADC1|RCC_APB2Periph_ADC2, ENABLE);
2019-07-03T17:16:24 < abcd> i'm quite sure both ADC gest clock
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2019-07-03T17:22:04 < Cracki> request them in cubemx, see what code *it* generates
2019-07-03T17:22:23 < Cracki> maybe you forgot to change a number
2019-07-03T17:22:39 < Cracki> or a function that looks like HAL/LL isn't, and you need to touch it as well
2019-07-03T17:23:38 < abcd> cubemx?
2019-07-03T17:23:44 < Cracki> cubemx
2019-07-03T17:23:50 < abcd> what's that?
2019-07-03T17:24:17 < Cracki> thing that generates setup code for peripherals you choose
2019-07-03T17:24:33 < Cracki> adc1/2 being peripherals
2019-07-03T17:25:11 < abcd> ok. i didn't know that thing existed. I wrote all code prom scratch in stdperiph
2019-07-03T17:25:58 < Cracki> maybe try two separate RCC_APB2PeriphClockCmd() calls, not sure if it can handle bit masks
2019-07-03T17:26:43 < Cracki> hm, docs say it does accept ored values
2019-07-03T17:27:02 < karlp> or try sharing the code...
2019-07-03T17:27:31 < abcd> the code is quite big, i'll try ti srink it as much as i can the i'll share it
2019-07-03T17:27:49 < Cracki> uh, you have adc in one file, yes?
2019-07-03T17:28:03 < Cracki> or do you have everything in one file
2019-07-03T17:28:32 < abcd> i have init in 1 file and processing in other
2019-07-03T17:28:39 < karlp> shrink it will also help you work out if it's something else :)
2019-07-03T17:31:32 < abcd> you said really helpfull thing. While i was shrinking code i realized i forgot to ADC_init, i just set struct
2019-07-03T17:34:51 < abcd> but thanks for help
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2019-07-03T17:35:20 < Cracki> I'm beginning to understand "pics or gtfo".
2019-07-03T17:36:41 < karlp> :+1:
2019-07-03T17:36:45 < dongs> < Cracki> maybe try two separate RCC_APB2PeriphClockCmd() calls, not sure if it can handle bit masks
2019-07-03T17:36:48 < dongs> it defintiely can
2019-07-03T17:37:05 < dongs> < abcd> RCC_APB2PeriphClockCmd(RCC_APB2Periph_ADC1|RCC_APB2Periph_ADC2, ENABLE);
2019-07-03T17:37:09 < dongs> but this is the problem
2019-07-03T17:37:15 < dongs> no space between | and args.
2019-07-03T17:37:26 < abcd> so whats the problem?
2019-07-03T17:37:38 < dongs> RCC_APB2PeriphClockCmd(RCC_APB2Periph_ADC1 | RCC_APB2Periph_ADC2, ENABLE); < fixed
2019-07-03T17:37:49 < Cracki> uh
2019-07-03T17:38:07 < Cracki> since when is that a problem, the preprocessor sees pipe as not-identifier
2019-07-03T17:38:18 < Steffanx> Troll
2019-07-03T17:38:23 < Steffanx> Ed
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2019-07-03T18:42:46 < Thorn> The Kube now makes you agree to the license terms halfway through the upgrade
2019-07-03T18:42:46 < Thorn> corporate bullshit intensifies
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2019-07-03T18:56:44 < Ecco> hi :)
2019-07-03T18:57:11 < karlp> welcome back
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2019-07-03T18:57:21 < Ecco> Thanks, it's been a while indeed :)
2019-07-03T19:00:04 < Ecco> I'm getting curious about solar cells. Would you guys know where I could find a datasheet to start understanding what kind of voltage/current a solar cell could deliver?
2019-07-03T19:00:46 < jpa-> that's a wide topic, to begin with monocrystalline vs. polycrystalline cells etc.
2019-07-03T19:00:55 < Ecco> yeah, I'm a total newb
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2019-07-03T19:02:17 < Ecco> All the documentation I find is about large panels (the kind you'd use to make a solar farm or to put on your roof)
2019-07-03T19:02:34 < Ecco> I guess they are somewhat similar, but I'm more interested in the kind of cell you'd use to power an STM32
2019-07-03T19:03:13 < jpa-> generally you'd want to charge a battery and then run the STM32 from that, because power draw varies
2019-07-03T19:03:32 < specing> Just take a $10 solar garden light and replace light with stm32
2019-07-03T19:04:46 < BrainDamage> Ecco: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Purnomo_Priambodo4/publication/285042969/figure/fig2/AS:304301554585601@1449562552752/The-Graph-of-the-I-V-characteristics-of-an-ideal-diode-solar-cell-when-non-illuminated.png
2019-07-03T19:04:53 < Ecco> jpa-: indeed, that makes sense in the general case. Now I'd like to see what it'd take to run the STM32 straight from power
2019-07-03T19:05:07 < BrainDamage> a solar cell is a diode characteristic that's shifted down by the illumination
2019-07-03T19:05:19 < BrainDamage> as in, dark current becomes summed to the illumation current
2019-07-03T19:05:36 < BrainDamage> the power can be extracted in the 4th quadrant, bottom right
2019-07-03T19:05:38 < Ecco> ok ok wait, too much information for my poor brain :)
2019-07-03T19:06:07 < Ecco> first of all, what schematics would this diagram refer to?
2019-07-03T19:06:13 < Ecco> Solar panel plugged into a resistor ?
2019-07-03T19:06:16 < qyx> Ecco: just use a spv1040 or spv1050 or similar with a single solar cell
2019-07-03T19:06:21 < qyx> to charge a cap/liion/whatever
2019-07-03T19:06:26 < BrainDamage> no, just solar panel IV characteristic
2019-07-03T19:06:44 < Ecco> Kinda like the one for an LED?
2019-07-03T19:06:47 < BrainDamage> first curve on top is when it's dark, the one on the bottom it's illuminated
2019-07-03T19:06:49 < BrainDamage> yes
2019-07-03T19:07:08 < Ecco> I mean, I've seen similar diagrams for LED, but it kinda made sense since you force voltage on an LED and then want to see what current will flow
2019-07-03T19:07:13 < BrainDamage> the numbers you'll see on the datasheet are those corner points
2019-07-03T19:07:19 < BrainDamage> Imp, Vmp
2019-07-03T19:07:21 < Ecco> ok
2019-07-03T19:07:27 < Ecco> thanks a lot for this info
2019-07-03T19:07:29 < BrainDamage> Voc
2019-07-03T19:07:33 < BrainDamage> and Isc
2019-07-03T19:07:35 < Ecco> I still have a hard time understanding this curve though
2019-07-03T19:07:53 < BrainDamage> Voc is the open circuit voltage, when it's illuminated
2019-07-03T19:08:02 < BrainDamage> Isc is the short circuit current
2019-07-03T19:08:05 < Ecco> ok, that's easy to understand
2019-07-03T19:08:13 < Ecco> oh, ok
2019-07-03T19:08:18 < BrainDamage> but that's not the max power that can be extracted
2019-07-03T19:08:23 < Ecco> ok, got it
2019-07-03T19:08:31 < Ecco> the lower right part is the interesting part
2019-07-03T19:08:33 < BrainDamage> the max power is the small rectangle dashed line
2019-07-03T19:08:41 < Ecco> yeah, got it
2019-07-03T19:08:51 < Ecco> ok, it's starting to make sense
2019-07-03T19:09:00 < Ecco> actually, do the other quadrants make any sense ?
2019-07-03T19:09:24 < Ecco> so, correct me if I'm wrong
2019-07-03T19:09:32 < Ecco> we look at the bottom-right part of the curve
2019-07-03T19:09:36 < BrainDamage> sure, the left half is when the diode is reverse biased, the right half when forward biased
2019-07-03T19:09:47 < BrainDamage> the top half refers to current going in the diode
2019-07-03T19:09:58 < BrainDamage> the bottom half refers to current going out the diode
2019-07-03T19:10:00 < Ecco> the panel will try to "force" a voltage
2019-07-03T19:10:18 < BrainDamage> will try to force a current
2019-07-03T19:10:19 < Ecco> depending on what's in "front" of the panel, only some intensity will be able to flow through
2019-07-03T19:10:40 < BrainDamage> yes
2019-07-03T19:10:44 < Ecco> ok, I get it
2019-07-03T19:10:48 < Ecco> and there's a "sweet spot"
2019-07-03T19:10:51 < BrainDamage> yup
2019-07-03T19:10:55 < BrainDamage> which is that corner
2019-07-03T19:11:00 < Ecco> so ideally the impedance of the circuit in front should be vmp/imp
2019-07-03T19:11:06 < BrainDamage> that is correct
2019-07-03T19:11:09 < Ecco> ok, got it
2019-07-03T19:11:16 < Ecco> I understood 1/4th of the diagram :)
2019-07-03T19:11:22 < BrainDamage> the mppt trackers try to lock into that sweet spot
2019-07-03T19:11:24 < Ecco> thanks a lot for this BrainDamage :)
2019-07-03T19:11:28 < Ecco> makes sense
2019-07-03T19:12:05 < Ecco> what would some "typical" values of Voc, Vmp, Imp, Isc be for a "small" panel?
2019-07-03T19:12:10 < Ecco> e.g. a panel that's like 3cm x 1 cm
2019-07-03T19:12:18 < Ecco> whatever cell technology is most common
2019-07-03T19:12:28 < Ecco> (I know my question isn't very accurate)
2019-07-03T19:12:54 < BrainDamage> Voc and Vmp depend mostly on the technology
2019-07-03T19:13:06 < BrainDamage> Imp and Isc depend on the illumination and the panel's efficiency
2019-07-03T19:13:26 < BrainDamage> most panels are rated with an illumination of 1kW/m^2
2019-07-03T19:13:35 < Ecco> ok
2019-07-03T19:13:57 < Ecco> yeah, because there's just one curve on the diagram
2019-07-03T19:14:06 < Ecco> but I guess there should be a bunch
2019-07-03T19:14:12 < Ecco> each for different levels of illumination
2019-07-03T19:14:28 < BrainDamage> if you want a handy number to remember, the approximate conversion efficiency in power for panels will be 10-15%
2019-07-03T19:14:30 < Ecco> what you're saying is they would kinda be similar in terms of V, and somewhat scaled along the I axis
2019-07-03T19:14:34 < Ecco> oh, ok
2019-07-03T19:14:35 < BrainDamage> yup
2019-07-03T19:14:38 < Ecco> ok great
2019-07-03T19:14:47 < Ecco> now I just need to figure out how much power the sun actually emits
2019-07-03T19:14:51 < Ecco> but that makes a lot of sense
2019-07-03T19:14:54 < Ecco> thank you very much BrainDamage 
2019-07-03T19:15:07 < qyx> it emits around 1000W/m^2
2019-07-03T19:15:25 < Ecco> at earth's ground level I assume
2019-07-03T19:15:29 < qyx> 1366 or whats the actual value
2019-07-03T19:15:31 < Ecco> holy shit that's huge
2019-07-03T19:15:44 < BrainDamage> if you want to know for your specific location accounting for weather, etc, look at insolation maps
2019-07-03T19:15:49 < Ecco> if I had to guess I would have said much much less
2019-07-03T19:15:54 < BrainDamage> it can be higher or lower
2019-07-03T19:15:57 < Ecco> wait, dumb question
2019-07-03T19:16:32 < Ecco> my induction stove is rated a few kW
2019-07-03T19:16:46 < Ecco> so it's roughly the same kind of power as 1 square meter of sunlight?
2019-07-03T19:16:54 < qyx>  If the extraterrestrial solar radiation is 1367 watts per square meter (the value when the Earth–Sun distance is 1 astronomical unit), then the direct sunlight at Earth's surface when the Sun is at the zenith is about 1050 W/m2, but the total amount (direct and indirect from the atmosphere) hitting the ground is around 1120 W/m2
2019-07-03T19:16:59 < BrainDamage> couple of square meters of sunlight, yes
2019-07-03T19:16:59 < qyx> hugepaste.
2019-07-03T19:17:00 < Ecco> So you could get something boiling just by focusing the light of 1 square meter?
2019-07-03T19:17:07 < Ecco> well, it makes sense though
2019-07-03T19:17:09 < BrainDamage> yes, there's such thing as solar ovens
2019-07-03T19:17:11 < Ecco> if you're in direct sunlight
2019-07-03T19:17:39 < Ecco> oh, yeah, it's true that you also get some indirect illumination, great point qyx :)
2019-07-03T19:17:43 < Ecco> ok, all this is super interesting
2019-07-03T19:17:50 < BrainDamage> the annoying part of solar ovens is that in order to keep them efficient you need to track the sun
2019-07-03T19:17:51 < Ecco> All those are upper bounds though
2019-07-03T19:17:55 < Ecco> not everyone lives in Arizona
2019-07-03T19:18:04 < Ecco> at zenith :)
2019-07-03T19:18:08 < Ecco> yeah ok :)
2019-07-03T19:18:12 < BrainDamage> panel's misalignment will change available power with cos()^2 angle difference
2019-07-03T19:18:21 < Ecco> why squared?
2019-07-03T19:18:30 < Ecco> cosine makes sense, but why squared?
2019-07-03T19:18:37 < BrainDamage> because the field intensity goes with cos
2019-07-03T19:18:42 < BrainDamage> power is field^2
2019-07-03T19:18:45 < Ecco> oh ok
2019-07-03T19:18:47 < englishman> Ecco: how I learned it is, a photodiode wants to squeeze out an electron when light hits it. flow of electrons = current. if there is nowhere for them to they go they build up. built up charge = potential = voltage
2019-07-03T19:19:07 < Ecco> englishman: makes sense too
2019-07-03T19:19:12 < BrainDamage> englishman's description is pretty valid
2019-07-03T19:19:23 < Ecco> so a photodiode is more of a CC power source ?
2019-07-03T19:19:28 < BrainDamage> yup
2019-07-03T19:19:34 < Ecco> allright, interesting
2019-07-03T19:19:47 < Ecco> I had no idea those actually existed "naturally"
2019-07-03T19:19:57 < BrainDamage> any diode is a photodiode actually
2019-07-03T19:20:07 < Ecco> So now, those numbers (1kw/m2) were theoretical maxima
2019-07-03T19:20:36 < qyx> you can get a couple of tens of microamps at 0.5V from a some fancy photodiodes
2019-07-03T19:20:39 < Ecco> what would it look like in an office environment for instance ?
2019-07-03T19:21:02 < Ecco> I mean, in a naturally lit room, but not under direct sunlight and not at noon
2019-07-03T19:21:14 < Ecco> (just asking for a ballpark estimate of cource)
2019-07-03T19:21:39 < qyx> around /10 I would say if you want a ballpark estimate
2019-07-03T19:21:48 < qyx> or even less
2019-07-03T19:21:55 < Ecco> ok :)
2019-07-03T19:22:02 < Ecco> Well all this is super interesting
2019-07-03T19:22:06 < Ecco> thanks for all the info!
2019-07-03T19:22:10 < BrainDamage> less
2019-07-03T19:22:14 < Ecco> ok
2019-07-03T19:22:20 < BrainDamage> consider your lightbulb
2019-07-03T19:22:22 < Ecco> more like a 1/100?
2019-07-03T19:22:25 < BrainDamage> it's 10-20W
2019-07-03T19:22:32 < BrainDamage> and illuminates a whole room
2019-07-03T19:22:32 < Ecco> oh, that's a good point
2019-07-03T19:22:47 < Ecco> and if it's incandescent, it's super inefficient
2019-07-03T19:22:50 < BrainDamage> so it's 20W/several square meters
2019-07-03T19:22:53 < Ecco> yeah, makes sense
2019-07-03T19:23:02 < Ecco> super interesting
2019-07-03T19:23:06 < Ecco> it's a shame I have to go :(
2019-07-03T19:23:20 < Ecco> thanks a lot guys!
2019-07-03T19:23:24 < qyx> o/
2019-07-03T19:24:57 < englishman> fucking balls imx6 only works at gbit speeds at 1.5v rgmii due to an obscure register setting
2019-07-03T19:25:27 < englishman> found in a forum post from 2012
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2019-07-03T19:37:04 < bitmask> hey booi
2019-07-03T19:37:14 < dongs> lol NXP
2019-07-03T19:38:36 < englishman> ^
2019-07-03T19:38:49 < englishman> dongs what's a 1.5v rgmii phy
2019-07-03T19:39:17 < dongs> rtl8211
2019-07-03T19:39:52 < englishman> does that still exist?!?
2019-07-03T19:39:56 < dongs> yes..
2019-07-03T19:40:00 < dongs> its all over china
2019-07-03T19:40:02 < dongs> for like $1.2
2019-07-03T19:40:36 < englishman> in stock at ARROW
2019-07-03T19:40:51 < dongs> you actually need RTL8211E for multivoltage shit but whatever yeah one of t hose works
2019-07-03T19:42:35 < specing> to hell with arrow now that there is no freeshipping any more
2019-07-03T19:42:45 < dongs> was tehre ever free shipping?
2019-07-03T19:42:49 < dongs> last time i tried to order something from arrow
2019-07-03T19:42:49 < englishman> yes
2019-07-03T19:42:52 < dongs> they wanted liek $120 for shipping
2019-07-03T19:42:55 < specing> dongs: yes, it was free
2019-07-03T19:42:57 < englishman> rip
2019-07-03T19:43:10 < specing> 120 lol
2019-07-03T19:43:13 < englishman> free above $20
2019-07-03T19:43:13 < dongs> right?
2019-07-03T19:43:18 < specing> mouser wanted $100 to ship to me
2019-07-03T19:43:22 < specing> they are insane
2019-07-03T19:43:25 < dongs> ya but you live in israel
2019-07-03T19:43:30 < dongs> mouser is freeship > $50
2019-07-03T19:43:31 < dongs> to me
2019-07-03T19:43:46 < englishman> maybe they just hate ada
2019-07-03T19:43:54 < specing> isnt arrow free ship >$50?
2019-07-03T19:44:11 < specing> LCSC is free shipping above $15 iirc, and their prices are 1/2 of mouser/arrow/...
2019-07-03T19:44:22 < dongs> but then you have to buy shit from china
2019-07-03T19:44:24 < dongs> and wait weeks
2019-07-03T19:44:38 < specing> that is acceptable
2019-07-03T19:44:40 < specing> for me
2019-07-03T19:44:45 < englishman> innovation doesn't wait
2019-07-03T19:47:01 < specing> what innovation
2019-07-03T19:49:19 < dongs> any
2019-07-03T19:57:14 < qyx> what lol nxp
2019-07-03T19:57:28 < qyx> actually imx6 is the bestest app cpu I worked with till now
2019-07-03T19:57:38 < qyx> works great
2019-07-03T19:58:03 < qyx> and a very decent lunix support
2019-07-03T20:00:33 < dongs> no windows 10 support? gtfo
2019-07-03T20:02:42 < Cracki> what are these switches called that have two or three positions and the slider stays in place?
2019-07-03T20:02:57 < dongs> rocker switch?
2019-07-03T20:03:14 < Cracki> or... slide switch. asking it made the difference
2019-07-03T20:03:44 < Cracki> now I'd like to find one that has three contacts on 0.1" grid, center is "tap"
2019-07-03T20:05:06 < dongs> https://www.jsumo.com/micro-slider-switch-spdt-5-pcs-pack literally any china switch
2019-07-03T20:06:11 < dongs> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9609 murican version
2019-07-03T20:06:21 < Cracki> awesome thx. domain specific english is hard
2019-07-03T20:06:27 < Cracki> >sparkfun
2019-07-03T20:06:35 < Cracki> why is it not on a breakout with grove connector
2019-07-03T20:06:40 < dongs> i think the one you want is SPDT so left/right toggles on/off from center pole 
2019-07-03T20:06:56 < Cracki> I'm looking up spdt/dpdt rn
2019-07-03T20:07:55 < Cracki> spdt, exactly. thx
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2019-07-03T21:50:34 < bitmask> yes! fan duct is ready to test with a print now, the air blows right at the nozzle
2019-07-03T21:51:53 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/JIJwrNz
2019-07-03T21:52:17 < bitmask> not the best print, but it should work
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2019-07-03T22:11:01 < Steffanx> go sleep jly
2019-07-03T22:18:19 < turnip420> Hello weiners
2019-07-03T22:18:43 < jly> GASSED
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2019-07-03T23:42:25 < Thorn> pick&place <$10K https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig_ZAYZcnEw
2019-07-03T23:44:21 < Steffanx> dont show catphish
2019-07-03T23:46:04 < aandrew> certainly no speed demon
2019-07-03T23:46:39 < aandrew> interesting feeder advance
2019-07-03T23:46:44 < Steffanx> what did you expect?
2019-07-03T23:47:40 < aandrew> 2x speed honestly
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2019-07-03T23:49:06 < Thorn> the software says "1261 components/hour"
2019-07-03T23:49:32 < aandrew> that's honestly not bad
2019-07-03T23:49:43 < Thorn> @4:25
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2019-07-03T23:55:19 < Thorn> why does it carry every component to that illuminated camera(?) thing
2019-07-03T23:55:49 < Thorn> I don't think I've seen that in other p&p
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2019-07-03T23:59:34 < aandrew> Thorn: that's a good thing
2019-07-03T23:59:46 < aandrew> it is verifying a) it's got a component and b) correcting its orientation
2019-07-03T23:59:55 < catphish> that's cool
--- Day changed Thu Jul 04 2019
2019-07-04T00:00:30 < Thorn> it doesn't help the speed
2019-07-04T00:00:46 < aandrew> no, but it will really help with misplacements
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2019-07-04T00:04:41 < catphish> 10k is still expensive though :)
2019-07-04T00:05:48 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsmzidQdayQ
2019-07-04T00:06:10 < catphish> i wish i had anything worth building, then i'd buy one :(
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2019-07-04T00:07:56 < jly> build a robot to build more robots
2019-07-04T00:08:36 < jly> also make it sniff the component after it picks
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2019-07-04T00:20:18 < aandrew> ... sniff?
2019-07-04T00:20:37 < Cracki> pnp can do without vision for 2-pad birdfeed because that aligns while melting, but it's awesome for any IC. you can even drop ics into basins, no need to align them except roughly upright
2019-07-04T00:29:06 < Cracki> btw, it's totally feasible to get pcbs calibrated automatically after clamping them in. it's just a little bit of computer vision nobody seems to bother with (at least not in anything I've seen)
2019-07-04T00:29:29 < Cracki> same for finding ICs scattered in basins
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2019-07-04T00:58:37 < englishman> Thorn: 10k and only one head? China was half that price 10y ago
2019-07-04T00:58:41 < englishman> 1200cph is crap
2019-07-04T00:59:37 < Thorn> under $10k
2019-07-04T01:00:05 < Thorn> should be about $7.5K or so
2019-07-04T01:20:45 < Thorn> if I use CRS to sync with USB SOF (on L0) should I disable it when USB is disconnected?
2019-07-04T01:23:59 < karlp> why?
2019-07-04T01:24:04 < karlp> for power?
2019-07-04T01:24:12 < karlp> wghat does ST say?
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2019-07-04T01:32:30 < Thorn> it has a failure interrupt etc. the RM doesn't appear to say anything
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2019-07-04T01:38:54 < Cracki> in case anyone does their own pnp vision software and wants autocalibration of an inserted board... https://imgur.com/a/bBKRDlg
2019-07-04T01:39:29 < Cracki> that has been known tech since 1999 and earlier
2019-07-04T01:44:15 < Mangy_Dog>  need a little help. I need a super simple and basic library for driving ws2811 ICs, (neopixel type chips) for stm32duino core on f103 But i cant have it tied to SPI My project already has Pin PB0 wired for sending the data... Anyone know a library i can use?
2019-07-04T01:45:14 < Cracki> how many spi masters does the thing have?
2019-07-04T01:45:35 < Mangy_Dog> think there are three in the chip but none on PB0
2019-07-04T01:46:14 < Cracki> anyway, ws2811 aren't really spi, they encode bits as different-width pulses
2019-07-04T01:46:21 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2019-07-04T01:46:31 < Cracki> so a library might not even use spi, but pwm
2019-07-04T01:46:44 < Mangy_Dog> its just the stm32duino core has a library that uses the spi hardware so is tied to those pins
2019-07-04T01:47:06 < Cracki> why exactly did you pick a pin that's useless?
2019-07-04T01:47:19 < Mangy_Dog> shortsightedness
2019-07-04T01:47:20 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2019-07-04T01:47:28 < Cracki> what peripherals does the pin have
2019-07-04T01:47:49 < Mangy_Dog> ive used neos before on maple minis and it used to be able to run it on any pin through bitbanging but i cant even find the old bitbang libraryies anymore
2019-07-04T01:48:26 < Cracki> i see at least one timer on pb0
2019-07-04T01:48:33 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2019-07-04T01:48:48 < Cracki> wanna write some DMA code?
2019-07-04T01:48:50 < Mangy_Dog> ive seen another library thats tied to the timer on PA0
2019-07-04T01:49:28 < Mangy_Dog> ill be honest writing DMA code might be a little beyowned my skills
2019-07-04T01:49:29 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2019-07-04T01:49:37 < Mangy_Dog> i wouldnt know where to start
2019-07-04T01:49:47 < Mangy_Dog> but if you can show me something to read ill do that
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2019-07-04T01:50:39 < Cracki> maybe finding a library is better
2019-07-04T01:50:44 < Mangy_Dog> heh
2019-07-04T01:51:01 < Cracki> is the protocol of ws2811 the same as ws2812?
2019-07-04T01:51:23 < Mangy_Dog> yes but half the speed
2019-07-04T01:51:36 < Mangy_Dog> 12 is 800khz 11 is 400
2019-07-04T01:51:48 < Cracki> ok so libraries prolly support both
2019-07-04T01:51:54 < Cracki> just asking...
2019-07-04T01:52:09 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2019-07-04T01:52:24 < Cracki> can you disconnect PB0 and run a bodge wire from a real spi pin to it?
2019-07-04T01:52:36 < Cracki> disconnect or set high-impedance
2019-07-04T01:52:48 < Mangy_Dog> not without ruining the stuff connected on the other pin
2019-07-04T01:52:53 < Mangy_Dog> I have maxed out all my pins in this project
2019-07-04T01:53:05 < Cracki> heh
2019-07-04T01:53:28 < Mangy_Dog> what is annoying though i could have easily put what i have on PA0 onto PB0
2019-07-04T01:53:33 < Mangy_Dog> its only a button 
2019-07-04T01:53:35 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2019-07-04T01:53:39 < Mangy_Dog> but its all on a set pcb now
2019-07-04T01:53:50 < Mangy_Dog> and im not going to run another pcb order just for this 
2019-07-04T01:54:12 < Cracki> https://github.com/ANDnXOR/Adafruit_NeoPixel-ANDnXOR/blob/master/Adafruit_NeoPixel-ANDnXOR.cpp
2019-07-04T01:54:21 < Mangy_Dog> ohhh i remember that one
2019-07-04T01:54:24 < Cracki> this one does bit banging and delays
2019-07-04T01:54:41 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ have fun, no clue what quality it has
2019-07-04T01:54:42 < Mangy_Dog> ahh yeah that would be the slow one
2019-07-04T01:54:55 < Mangy_Dog> however i do plan to put an rtos on this thing
2019-07-04T01:55:03 < Cracki> kek
2019-07-04T01:55:07 < Mangy_Dog> so the delays might be able to fit within the schedualing
2019-07-04T01:55:12 < Mangy_Dog> so not blocking
2019-07-04T01:55:32 < Cracki> you might be better off writing one from scratch
2019-07-04T01:55:38 < Mangy_Dog> true
2019-07-04T01:55:42 < Mangy_Dog> tbh that was the plan
2019-07-04T01:55:46 < Cracki> get a timer, use interrupts maybe
2019-07-04T01:55:52 < Mangy_Dog> i was just trying to find the data write functions to rip out
2019-07-04T01:56:06 < Mangy_Dog> i dont need anything major at all
2019-07-04T01:56:12 < Mangy_Dog> im only driving 6 white leds :p
2019-07-04T01:56:18 < Mangy_Dog> not even rgb
2019-07-04T01:56:31 < Cracki> that's relaxed
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2019-07-04T01:59:30 < Thorn> Mangy_Dog: get mbi5024 or something
2019-07-04T01:59:49 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2019-07-04T02:00:11 < Mangy_Dog> ive already got my board
2019-07-04T02:00:14 < Thorn> it can be driven by noormal SPI
2019-07-04T02:01:01 < Thorn> it's never too late to fix a crappy design decision lol
2019-07-04T02:01:06 < Mangy_Dog> well no
2019-07-04T02:01:13 < Mangy_Dog> that wouldnt even fit
2019-07-04T02:01:20 < Mangy_Dog> ive already maxed out my io
2019-07-04T02:01:30 < Mangy_Dog> which is why i went with the ws2811 in the first place
2019-07-04T02:01:33 < Mangy_Dog> its a single line
2019-07-04T02:02:57 < Mangy_Dog> poop rick isnt here
2019-07-04T02:03:05 < Mangy_Dog> he did a DMA routine for ws2811
2019-07-04T02:04:24 < Thorn> I wrote a ws2812b driver using timers and DMA too but it's specialized (can run 16 channels at once) and it's for F4
2019-07-04T02:04:51 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2019-07-04T02:05:02 < Mangy_Dog> i really should learn hwo to use dma
2019-07-04T02:07:11 < Mangy_Dog> right time for bed
2019-07-04T02:07:14 < Mangy_Dog> nn :)
2019-07-04T02:09:20 < Mangy_Dog> oh ffs
2019-07-04T02:09:33 < Mangy_Dog> should of read the rest of ricks thread, he did a version using pb0
2019-07-04T02:13:09 < bitmask> do you list projects in a cover letter?
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2019-07-04T03:38:16 < aandrew> yeah my SPI FPGA loader doesn't work with DMA
2019-07-04T03:38:19 < aandrew> gotta fix it
2019-07-04T03:47:02 < dongs> sup bloggers
2019-07-04T03:47:15 < dongs> STM32 is SPI slave for FPGA load?
2019-07-04T03:47:25 < dongs> pro stuff
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2019-07-04T05:37:26 < Cracki> kek javascript still has no semantics for comparing arrays by content
2019-07-04T05:37:35 < Cracki> I would have expected this in 2019
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2019-07-04T06:05:52 < dongs> javascript was never intended to be used and it shows
2019-07-04T06:06:03 < dongs> all the garbage thats been bolted on since '95 is really awful
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2019-07-04T11:14:39 < jadew> Cracki, it's because objects are passed as a pointer
2019-07-04T11:15:15 < jadew> so what are you comparing and by what rules?
2019-07-04T11:16:40 < jly> 😶
2019-07-04T11:20:27 < Cracki> uh wat
2019-07-04T11:21:02 < Cracki> jadew, compare it to *anything*. java has .equals(), python has a sensible == operator, ...
2019-07-04T11:21:14 < jadew> Cracki, the moment you start following pointers, you're exposed to the danger of cyclic references
2019-07-04T11:21:22 < Cracki> there's actually an npm package  "array-equals" or something
2019-07-04T11:21:24 < jadew> also, objects in JS are rather complex
2019-07-04T11:21:34 < Cracki> not much more than anywhere else
2019-07-04T11:21:35 < jadew> so there's a real question there on what exactly are you comparing
2019-07-04T11:21:50 < Cracki> you're thinking too complicated
2019-07-04T11:21:50 < jadew> Cracki, they are more complex because of the prototype system
2019-07-04T11:22:06 < Cracki> idc
2019-07-04T11:22:18 < Cracki> at the very least, just check if length equal and if every element is ==
2019-07-04T11:22:27 < Cracki> that takes care of strings and numbers, and to hell with objects
2019-07-04T11:22:52 < jadew> that's also a difficult decision
2019-07-04T11:22:59 < Cracki> my purpose needed custom comparison anyway. i needed nulls to be equal to "" (in this particular case I have)
2019-07-04T11:23:02 < jadew> maybe you want to compare the array object, not its content?
2019-07-04T11:23:13 < Cracki> maybe === is the identity operator, so that's good enough
2019-07-04T11:23:20 < jadew> personally, for JS I wrote custom comparison stuff
2019-07-04T11:23:28 < jadew> that can also deal with nested stuff
2019-07-04T11:23:54 < Cracki> a usable language has default semantics for non-identity comparison
2019-07-04T11:24:15 < jadew> java doesn't
2019-07-04T11:24:32 < Cracki> nobody holds java up as a pinnacle of human achievement
2019-07-04T11:24:46 < Cracki> its purpose is to get some use out of mediocre code monkeys
2019-07-04T11:25:30 < Cracki> it's the safety match to light a candle, when you could also use flintstone to light your flamethrower
2019-07-04T11:25:32 < jadew> anyway, the thing about JS is that the way it's built makes it difficult to come up with a comparison solution that's not confusing or broken
2019-07-04T11:25:51 < Cracki> just break shit
2019-07-04T11:26:01 < Cracki> it's already broken
2019-07-04T11:26:23 < jadew> typescript solves that, because you can enforce the type of the array
2019-07-04T11:27:13 < jadew> you can have function compare(arr: (number, string, bool)[]) : bool { }
2019-07-04T11:27:34 < jadew> so it rules out objects at compile time and you don't have to worry about any of that
2019-07-04T11:27:53 < jadew> actually that declaration is stupid
2019-07-04T11:27:53 < Cracki> nobody wants to enforce types
2019-07-04T11:27:55 < Cracki> that's silly
2019-07-04T11:28:27 < jadew> function compare<T extends (number | string | bool)[]>(arr1: T, arr2: T) : bool { }
2019-07-04T11:28:28 < Cracki> leave that to the haskell nuts
2019-07-04T11:28:43 < Cracki> yeah that's haskell and the world can do without that
2019-07-04T11:28:52 < jadew> enforcing types is great
2019-07-04T11:29:00 < Cracki> haskell is like communism. good idea, but people die
2019-07-04T11:29:09 < Cracki> strong typing isn't static typing
2019-07-04T11:29:21 < jadew> for one, if you enforce types, you can get rid of runtime checks
2019-07-04T11:29:28 < jadew> so you increase performance
2019-07-04T11:29:39 < Cracki> how about I want an array that can hold several different types and I really don't care what they are
2019-07-04T11:29:48 < jadew> secondly, it makes sure you don't use a function on something you shouldn't use it
2019-07-04T11:29:50 < Cracki> so long as they compare reasonably to other types
2019-07-04T11:29:53 < jadew> so it saves debugging time
2019-07-04T11:30:09 < jadew> Cracki, you can still have that
2019-07-04T11:30:37 < jadew> you can figure out what "comparable" means
2019-07-04T11:30:42 < jadew> and then create an interface
2019-07-04T11:30:43 < Cracki> then why do type system fetishists always start with the most straitjacket examples
2019-07-04T11:30:45 < jadew> interface Comparable
2019-07-04T11:30:55 < Cracki> pls stahp
2019-07-04T11:31:03 < jadew> and have compare(arr1: Comparable[], arr2: Comparable) {}
2019-07-04T11:31:10 < jadew> which will make sure that the objects you pass are comparable
2019-07-04T11:31:43 < jadew> Cracki, what kind of examples are you talking about?
2019-07-04T11:32:04 < Cracki> what makes you think I'm talking about examples?
2019-07-04T11:32:21 < jadew> that last line you said about the fetishists
2019-07-04T11:33:01 < Cracki> oh, these fetishists always jerk off over their sexy type systems and the clever mazes of cleverness they can build and get lost in
2019-07-04T11:33:27 < jadew> that's not what the appeal of a type system is
2019-07-04T11:33:51 < jadew> a type system first and foremost, makes it so you don't call the wrong function on the wrong type of data
2019-07-04T11:34:12 < Cracki> type systems attract masochists. they may have other uses but that alone leads people to abuse them.
2019-07-04T11:34:23 < jadew> and it does that at compile time, which has several advantages (increased speed, less debugging, etc)
2019-07-04T11:34:40 < Cracki> js isn't compiled, or has pre-runtime checking
2019-07-04T11:34:43 < jadew> now, the attractiveness part for those fetishists you're speaking of, is not that it's complex
2019-07-04T11:34:43 < Cracki> python can have that
2019-07-04T11:34:49 < jadew> it's that it's easy to model complex types
2019-07-04T11:34:59 < jadew> because that's where the problems appears, in modeling complex types
2019-07-04T11:35:14 < jadew> and the fetish stems for making that modeling easier than it would be otherwise
2019-07-04T11:35:29 < jadew> Cracki, typescript is compiled tho
2019-07-04T11:35:33 < Cracki> don't you see the parallels between fancy type systems and other "good ideas" that turned out to be fatal
2019-07-04T11:35:35 < jadew> it compiles to JS
2019-07-04T11:35:46 < jadew> and the compiled code, while it's not safe to be called from JS directly
2019-07-04T11:35:58 < jadew> it is safe to be called from TS, because it does the compile time checks
2019-07-04T11:36:06 < Cracki> type systems are a cult
2019-07-04T11:36:07 < jadew> (which the generated JS doesn't)
2019-07-04T11:36:27 < jadew> Cracki, nah, type systems are a solution
2019-07-04T11:36:32 < Cracki> people make their type systems do actual computation because they've been boosted to be turing complete
2019-07-04T11:36:41 < jadew> and typescript doesn't even forces you to use the type system
2019-07-04T11:36:51 < jadew> it's optional, based on when you feel you need it
2019-07-04T11:37:09 < jadew> so it's not a cargo cult thing, it's just good
2019-07-04T11:37:45 < Cracki> only some cults are cargo cults. most cults are something else.
2019-07-04T11:37:47 < jadew> for example, it solves that array comparison thing you were talking about
2019-07-04T11:38:11 < jadew> without a type system in place, you'll have to do more checks at runtime
2019-07-04T11:39:15 < Cracki> I'm not arguing against type systems as such, but against the static typing cultism
2019-07-04T11:40:38 < jadew> I think static typing was not really something intended, but more of a limitation of the design
2019-07-04T11:41:11 < jadew> which is why even C and C++ had ways around it since the very beginning (unions)
2019-07-04T11:41:51 < jadew> c++ has now better ways to deal with that
2019-07-04T11:42:19 < Cracki> the only way to solve this to my satisfaction is currently illegal
2019-07-04T11:42:55 < jadew> you could switch to typescript
2019-07-04T11:43:04 < jadew> then it would be solved
2019-07-04T11:44:34 < Cracki> not feasible. I'm restricted to javascript AND I will not fuck around with having to compile anything for this purpose
2019-07-04T11:45:30 < Cracki> tool support for these cult things is too often lacking because they think by merely wanting it enough they can make it popular
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2019-07-04T11:46:06 < Cracki> everything that's popular and successful has received lots of tooling and usability effort
2019-07-04T11:46:23 < Mangy_Dog> moo
2019-07-04T11:47:19 < Cracki> is that you asking to get milked or what
2019-07-04T11:47:32 < jly> rofl
2019-07-04T11:48:44 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2019-07-04T11:48:45 < jadew> Cracki, TS is very well supported
2019-07-04T11:49:00 < qyx> are we talking about java and aclipse?
2019-07-04T11:50:38 < jadew> Cracki, http://188.27.5.74/stuff/example.php
2019-07-04T11:54:06 < jadew> I even wrote a merger/compiler/minimizer for TS
2019-07-04T11:54:52 < jadew> which is better than the one from google, because that one works on JS only and doesn't know which symbols are meant to private, so it can't minimize those
2019-07-04T11:55:10 < jadew> having an insight into the type system lets you do more complex stuff
2019-07-04T12:11:39 < jly> https://youtu.be/47zHLMOqsD0?t=124
2019-07-04T12:14:57 < jadew> jly, is your youtube recommendation list filled with weird shit like that?
2019-07-04T12:15:16 < jadew> I was inspired and opened that link in incognito
2019-07-04T12:18:05 < jly> nah my friend decided to post it 
2019-07-04T12:20:54 < jadew> for a while I had this & the variations in my recommendation list: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG-w-tFb5ic
2019-07-04T12:22:35 < karlp> Cracki: you didn't just do JSON.stringify(a) == JSON.stringify(b) ? :)
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2019-07-04T12:23:15 < jadew> heh
2019-07-04T12:23:37 < Thorn> ===
2019-07-04T12:23:44 < Thorn> never == in js
2019-07-04T12:24:00 < karlp> except when you want coercion, but yeah, my bad,
2019-07-04T12:24:13 < karlp> I've got some code that has a comment over the == saying, "yes, this is actually desired here!"
2019-07-04T12:27:10 < jadew> yeah, depends on what you want
2019-07-04T12:27:26 < karlp> I would probably do either map() to get an array of tuples and then .every to compare each pair using whatever logic you wanted.
2019-07-04T12:29:57 < jadew> karlp, for what?
2019-07-04T12:30:34 < jadew> for the comparison?
2019-07-04T12:33:24 < karlp> yeah
2019-07-04T12:33:41 < jadew> callbacks could get expensive
2019-07-04T12:34:04 < karlp> you eended up in a dumb world where you had to compare arrays, you're already in the deep end :)
2019-07-04T12:34:19 < karlp> like any js author gives two shits about performance anyway
2019-07-04T12:34:26 < jadew> heh, fair point
2019-07-04T12:35:39 < jly> :}
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2019-07-04T12:51:37 < jadew> :/ google has removed call recording ability from android
2019-07-04T12:51:49 < jadew> I wonder how I can roll back to the previous version
2019-07-04T12:51:51 < jadew> fucking assholes
2019-07-04T12:52:04 < jly> the dogs
2019-07-04T12:52:38 < jly> new huawei os will be the greatest
2019-07-04T12:52:53 < jadew> maybe they'll fix that
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2019-07-04T13:02:16 < jadew> my box is getting manufactured today, I hope my math was correct and the lid won't fall off
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2019-07-04T14:29:23 < Steffanx> Few weeks ago some of you commented on the use of volatile. And that confused me. Isnt it as simple that every variable (array or not) modified in an isr and used (and changed) elsewhere must be volatile?
2019-07-04T14:31:35 < jadew> can't think of a reason why that's not the case
2019-07-04T14:32:50 < jadew> maybe it's because it would be unsafe to rely on that
2019-07-04T14:33:09 < jadew> for example, there could be paths the code could take (from inside an ISR) that would change a variable
2019-07-04T14:33:21 < jadew> but you could make it in such a way that those paths are never taken
2019-07-04T14:34:59 < jadew> I want to make a video presenting my 8 GHz prescaler but I'm not sure what to say to make it worthwhile
2019-07-04T14:35:13 < jadew> "it's an 8 GHz prescaler and the data is in the datasheet" would pretty much do it
2019-07-04T14:36:30 < jadew> and I already went over the testing procedure in a different video for the 3 GHz one
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2019-07-04T15:21:33 < zyp> Steffanx, I'm not sure what conversation you refer to, but that sounds like an oversimplification to me
2019-07-04T15:24:32 < zyp> in general volatile is inefficient so you'd want to avoid it where it is not necessary
2019-07-04T15:44:26 < Steffanx> True that zyp, but I dont recall who stated that even in most isr used variable cases it's not necessary.
2019-07-04T15:44:36 < Steffanx> Might have been c racki
2019-07-04T15:45:17 < jadew> difficult for the compiler to figure out tho
2019-07-04T15:45:22 < jadew> an ISR could be called twice
2019-07-04T15:45:29 < jadew> (at the same time)
2019-07-04T15:47:09 < Cracki> or a while (!flag) {} is optimized to if (!flag) while (true) {} because the compiler thinks the variable can't be changed (because it has no idea what an ISR is)
2019-07-04T15:47:57 < jadew> yeah, but even if it knew, it still wouldn't know how the ISR is being called
2019-07-04T15:49:51 < Steffanx> But the one stating it did not give examples of wrong use cases, so perhaps I did over simplify the statement ;)
2019-07-04T15:51:33 < Cracki> compiler reasons that "this empty loop can't change the loop condition, so the loop condition is a constant, so I can factor that out"
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2019-07-04T15:52:17 < Cracki> one could maybe tell a compiler which functions are ISRs so it can analyze stuff by itself... but don't ask me if any compiler does that
2019-07-04T15:54:13 < Steffanx> If I have large array or type x, and use that in and outside an isr. Does it have to be volatile? Especially when another volatile variable tells me the number of elements in the array.
2019-07-04T15:54:37 < jadew> Cracki, it can't analyze ISR calls, because they're generated by hardware
2019-07-04T15:54:52 < Steffanx> It can not "cache" the array in registers.
2019-07-04T15:56:14 < Steffanx> No just an element volatile variable x will point to.
2019-07-04T15:56:43 < Steffanx> Yeah
2019-07-04T15:59:21 < Steffanx> It this case it's an interrupt posting something in a queue and ups a counter. Main loop reads it out if counter > 0
2019-07-04T15:59:26 < Steffanx> In*
2019-07-04T16:00:40 < Steffanx> Question is if the queue needs to be volatile. Google doesn't give me a clear answer. As it goes from yes to not necessarily.
2019-07-04T16:01:21 < Steffanx> Queue in this case is just an array of structs 
2019-07-04T16:01:31 < Steffanx> But I dont avr
2019-07-04T16:02:11 < qyx> a similar question, an array of bytes is allocated on the main thread, DMA is configured
2019-07-04T16:02:22 < qyx> and a flag is modified in the DMA isr telling that the buffer is ready
2019-07-04T16:02:30 < qyx> the flag is volatile
2019-07-04T16:02:43 < qyx> in the main() there is a loop waiting for the flag and then working with the array of bytes
2019-07-04T16:03:00 < qyx> which gets modified in the isr, but it is NOT referenced in the isr
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2019-07-04T16:03:25 < qyx> is compiler allowed to optimize anything regarding the buffer array?
2019-07-04T16:03:44 < qyx> it has no means of knowing if the array changed or not
2019-07-04T16:03:50 < qyx> ir is it ihe same Steffanx is asking?
2019-07-04T16:04:38 < dongs> sup pro chats
2019-07-04T16:05:00 < dongs> ATOMIC_DONG
2019-07-04T16:05:03 < Steffanx> Anyway, I checked the assembly and it seems right but.. will it always be.
2019-07-04T16:06:16 < jadew> qyx, as long as you're not referencing fixed elements in the array, I think having the flag volatile should be sufficient
2019-07-04T16:07:05 < jadew> in Steffanx's case, it depends on what he's doing
2019-07-04T16:07:35 < jadew> in your case, the flag behaves as a semaphore
2019-07-04T16:07:53 < jadew> Steffanx needs one too
2019-07-04T16:07:54 < Steffanx> Mine too, a counting one
2019-07-04T16:08:02 < Steffanx> And atomic stuff is there
2019-07-04T16:08:31 < jadew> Steffanx, well, does it prevent the ISR from running?
2019-07-04T16:08:41 < jadew> if it doesn't, then it's not a real semaphore
2019-07-04T16:08:52 < jadew> you need something to say "now I go, you don't"
2019-07-04T16:09:04 < Steffanx> It does.
2019-07-04T16:09:28 < jadew> then, if it's also atomic, and you're not referencing fixed elements I think your thing should also be fine
2019-07-04T16:10:20 < Steffanx> That's what I do. ;)
2019-07-04T16:10:41 < Steffanx> Lol
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2019-07-04T16:11:56 < jadew> I think I already bragged about this, but I did scope locked mutexes back when they weren't a thing
2019-07-04T16:12:14 < jadew> wrote an article about them on codeproject and it got a 2 out of 5 :/
2019-07-04T16:12:26 < Steffanx> Purged article?
2019-07-04T16:12:28 < jadew> now that exact feature is part of c++
2019-07-04T16:12:36 < jadew> I removed the article, yeah
2019-07-04T16:12:44 < jadew> I was ashamed of the rating
2019-07-04T16:12:54 < Steffanx> So how can we verify this statement :P
2019-07-04T16:13:03 < jadew> I don't think I invented them, but I made an implementation before they were even in boost I think
2019-07-04T16:13:15 < jadew> Steffanx, hehe
2019-07-04T16:13:19 < jadew> I guess you can't
2019-07-04T16:14:21 < jadew> heh
2019-07-04T16:15:54 < jadew> here's another one, before they add it to c++ (I don't believe it's planned)
2019-07-04T16:16:00 < jadew> I've had properties for years now
2019-07-04T16:16:32 < jadew> I had the urge to share those too, but I learned my lesson
2019-07-04T16:19:14 < jadew> properties like in C#
2019-07-04T16:19:33 < dongs> purrrged
2019-07-04T16:19:47 < jadew> they enable read-only member variables, write-only, events on change
2019-07-04T16:20:23 < jadew> the code is absolute SFINAE mindfuck
2019-07-04T16:20:43 < jadew> I'll probably revisit it once they add concepts and all those related goodies
2019-07-04T16:21:58 < jadew> leelominai implemented something really nice regarding that
2019-07-04T16:22:11 < jadew> all bits were checked
2019-07-04T16:22:35 < jadew> so you wouldn't have been able to set something wrong
2019-07-04T16:23:18 < jadew> you only have to do it once
2019-07-04T16:23:34 < jadew> and there aren't that many registers & bits
2019-07-04T16:23:39 < jadew> they just seem like they are
2019-07-04T16:24:04 < jadew> uhm... properties
2019-07-04T16:24:05 < dongs> you mean like const int faggot = 0xdeadbeef;? 
2019-07-04T16:24:21 < dongs> or is this some C++ faggotry im not aware of
2019-07-04T16:24:41 < zyp> why does the compiler need to know?
2019-07-04T16:25:00 < jadew> zyp, so you get an error when you try to write to it ofc
2019-07-04T16:25:13 < zyp> I guess you could declare it as const volatile
2019-07-04T16:25:36 < jadew> zyp, are those compatible?
2019-07-04T16:25:50 < zyp> why wouldn't they be? they are not mutually exclusive
2019-07-04T16:25:58 < jadew> that's interesting
2019-07-04T16:27:09 < zyp> const means you can't write it, volatile means you can't assume it always reads the same
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2019-07-04T16:32:29 < jadew> it should be
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2019-07-04T16:37:15 < jadew> it's amazing, but I can't find good youtube channels anymore
2019-07-04T16:37:42 < jadew> there are tons of them, but it's like the ones with high quality content are fewer than before
2019-07-04T16:38:19 -!- Dave_Elec [~Dave@196.188.72.247] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-04T16:38:42 < jadew> I thought that if everyone is doing it, there'd be more quality content
2019-07-04T16:39:51 < jadew> worse than that are the ads in the videos themselves
2019-07-04T16:40:16 < jadew> you don't even know if the person speaking is advertising something or if it's related to the video
2019-07-04T16:41:01 < jadew> lol, I saw those too
2019-07-04T16:44:02 < jadew> I money well spent
2019-07-04T16:44:09 < jadew> yeah
2019-07-04T17:13:41 < dongs> how about aids from a hooker whose language you cant understand
2019-07-04T17:15:25 < jadew> both things happen with equal frequency
2019-07-04T17:20:44 < jadew> so... I need something that allows me to connect my spreadsheet with the test equipment in my lab
2019-07-04T17:21:41 < jadew> guess that won't happen
2019-07-04T17:22:25 < jadew> like... click a button and fill my cells with data
2019-07-04T17:22:49 < jadew> right
2019-07-04T17:22:58 < jadew> I'll have to write one
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2019-07-04T17:55:14 < Steffanx> Anyway, I'm still not sure if the array of structs has to be volatile. "I dont think so" didn't do it for me :P
2019-07-04T17:58:18 < jadew> Steffanx, is there any chance that once you start going through the array, those structs are going to change?
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2019-07-04T18:00:35 < jadew> if not, then the answer is no
2019-07-04T18:00:53 < jadew> because the generated code will load the addresses based on the current index
2019-07-04T18:01:11 < jadew> so there won't be any assertions to be made during compilation, that can't be made
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2019-07-04T18:02:16 < Steffanx> While I go through it no, but only because its protected by some flagish volatile variable.
2019-07-04T18:03:22 < jadew> if access to that variable is atomic and it guarantees that while it's in some state, the array won't be changed, then it's perfectly fine
2019-07-04T18:04:27 < jadew> if access to the array is protected { /* here */ }
2019-07-04T18:04:38 < jadew> then any looping you do over the array should work fine
2019-07-04T18:04:46 < jadew> (in there)
2019-07-04T18:05:14 < Steffanx> I dont mention it much Haohmaru 
2019-07-04T18:05:41 < jadew> Haohmaru, he wrote an operating system
2019-07-04T18:05:51 < jadew> got ripped off by some guy
2019-07-04T18:06:09 < jadew> TempleOS
2019-07-04T18:06:18 < jadew> look it up
2019-07-04T18:06:30 < Steffanx> The atomic part is irrelevant. Sure it can causes bugs, but it's irrelevant for the volatile question or not.
2019-07-04T18:06:38 < jadew> Haohmaru, I'm trolling you
2019-07-04T18:06:42 < Steffanx> cause*
2019-07-04T18:07:07 < jadew> it's not irrelevant
2019-07-04T18:07:27 < jadew> if it's not atomic, it's not an effective semaphore
2019-07-04T18:08:05 < Steffanx> But I would be surprised if the compiler actually minds my "disable interrupts" instruction
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2019-07-04T18:08:36 < Steffanx> Its all about if it can/will/is allowed to make assumptions about my array being changed or not
2019-07-04T18:09:25 < jadew> as long as you're doing it in a loop, there's not much it can do
2019-07-04T18:09:36 < qyx> jadew: isn't the templeos author dead?
2019-07-04T18:10:03 < jadew> qyx, why do you have to make it weird?
2019-07-04T18:10:40 < qyx> oh, I though you want that
2019-07-04T18:11:07 < Steffanx> It doesn't matter who wrote the OS. It's about who inspired it: God
2019-07-04T18:11:25 < jadew> yes and He's eternal
2019-07-04T18:11:31 < Steffanx> Yeah
2019-07-04T18:11:34 < qyx> like your array of struct
2019-07-04T18:11:42 < qyx> only he knows if the compiler is allowed to optimize it or not
2019-07-04T18:11:47 < Steffanx> But it's not volatile
2019-07-04T18:12:24 < jadew> Steffanx, it's something that can't be optimized
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2019-07-04T18:13:06 < jadew> on every iteration, it has to load the addresses into the registers
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2019-07-04T18:35:22 < Mangy_Dog> Can anyone give me a quick hand, im trying to reverse engineer a ws2812 library to work on the ws2811... Bitbanging through delay controls... Anyway im having trouble making heads or tails of the timing delay function. https://pastebin.com/6cxz66Vc
2019-07-04T18:35:56 < Mangy_Dog> i dont even know what units its working in
2019-07-04T18:36:14 < Mangy_Dog> can anyone say?
2019-07-04T18:37:53 < Thorn> the unit is one iteration of the loop lol
2019-07-04T18:38:17 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2019-07-04T18:38:25 < Mangy_Dog> that wouldnt make sense
2019-07-04T18:40:32 < Mangy_Dog> the units cane be tied to loop counts
2019-07-04T18:40:35 < Mangy_Dog> cant
2019-07-04T18:40:41 < Mangy_Dog> as a loop could be anything its not fixed
2019-07-04T18:40:51 < Thorn> the loop is while (num--) ;;
2019-07-04T18:40:52 < Mangy_Dog> and these timings are pretty specific
2019-07-04T18:41:00 < Thorn> or while (--num) ;;
2019-07-04T18:41:34 < Thorn> the author most likely tweaked the values while looking at the scope
2019-07-04T18:41:53 < Mangy_Dog> again that wont work
2019-07-04T18:42:09 < Thorn> why not
2019-07-04T18:42:15 < Mangy_Dog> add another function somewhere int eh greater program and blam
2019-07-04T18:42:23 < Mangy_Dog> your addressing wont function
2019-07-04T18:42:35 < Mangy_Dog> umm the leds wont run
2019-07-04T18:42:44 < Thorn> it only works for a particular mcu with a particular clock frequency, flash config etc.
2019-07-04T18:43:04 < Thorn> make:r grade developoment
2019-07-04T18:43:11 < Mangy_Dog> then why isnt it tied to a delaymicros or a timer?
2019-07-04T18:43:20 < Mangy_Dog> so its accurate
2019-07-04T18:45:49 < Thorn> because make:r
2019-07-04T18:46:16 < Thorn> moral: don't search the net for libraries, write your own code properly
2019-07-04T18:46:53 < Mangy_Dog> well i am starting to udnerstand and im actually going to strip this library down, and just keep the data send part of things
2019-07-04T18:46:58 < Thorn> although they may serve as examples of what not to do lol
2019-07-04T18:47:03 < Mangy_Dog> im also not quite that smart
2019-07-04T18:47:32 < Mangy_Dog> im deffo not smart enough to make a none blocking dma timer connected version of the library
2019-07-04T18:47:33 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2019-07-04T18:47:48 < Mangy_Dog> which would be more ideal
2019-07-04T18:48:04 < Mangy_Dog> i dont even know how to manipulate timers properly
2019-07-04T18:48:40 < Mangy_Dog> or what to do with them to make what i want to do something... which im not entirely sure what i want it todo :p
2019-07-04T18:48:55 < Mangy_Dog> apart from send 6 bytes of data
2019-07-04T18:52:32 < Thorn> read the RM 100 times (most importantly), look for working code examples, and you will learn how to use dma, timers and so on
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2019-07-04T18:57:12 < Mangy_Dog> i think i might just remove that delay function replace it with delaymicros and put in the ws2811 us timings
2019-07-04T18:57:39 < Mangy_Dog> its blocking but ints only 6 bytes its still far less than a ms of blocking
2019-07-04T18:57:51 < Mangy_Dog> which shouldnt interfear with other more realtime functions
2019-07-04T18:58:09 < Mangy_Dog> at least not on the human perceievable level of a HID
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2019-07-04T19:14:23 < jadew> anyone has VS 2019?
2019-07-04T19:14:26 < Thorn> 100 caps: $6.21, 100 cap covers: $5.18, 140 switches bit caps and covers: $10.87
2019-07-04T19:14:44 < Thorn> s/bit/with/
2019-07-04T19:15:29 < jadew> can anyone open this file in VS 2019? http://188.27.5.74/stuff/test.txt
2019-07-04T19:15:56 < jadew> I want to report an issue and I want to make sure I'm not talking garbage
2019-07-04T19:20:58 < englishman> hi innovators
2019-07-04T19:21:02 < englishman> I got a new toy
2019-07-04T19:21:07 < englishman> pic updonging
2019-07-04T19:23:19 < englishman> http://i.imgur.com/A4pU6c4.jpg
2019-07-04T19:23:36 < jadew> nice!
2019-07-04T19:23:53 < jadew> how much?
2019-07-04T19:24:02 < englishman> all
2019-07-04T19:24:03 < karlp> new job paid I guess
2019-07-04T19:24:06 < jadew> heh
2019-07-04T19:25:31 < englishman> the guy who will train people has 37 years experience at tek
2019-07-04T19:26:04 < Thorn> moneyed westerners
2019-07-04T19:28:00 < englishman> it has i2c decoding
2019-07-04T19:28:11 < englishman> $1900 option
2019-07-04T19:28:25 < jadew> lol
2019-07-04T19:28:46 < jadew> why would it cost that much?
2019-07-04T19:28:59 < englishman> why not
2019-07-04T19:29:15 < jadew> yeah, I guess that's why
2019-07-04T19:29:18 < Mangy_Dog> if anyone seems rickkimball come on get him to pm me
2019-07-04T19:29:51 < englishman> the 8GHz spectrum analyzer is included but you gotta pay $1900 for i2c
2019-07-04T19:32:59 < Thorn> moneyed westerners
2019-07-04T19:38:00 < karlp> ansible paying for itself already. nice.
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2019-07-04T19:45:57 < englishman> the base model has lunix instead of windows 10.
2019-07-04T19:47:47 < jadew> englishman, and you can upgrade it to windows?
2019-07-04T19:47:52 < jadew> is windows 10 an option too?
2019-07-04T19:48:50 < englishman> of course, it boots right up into the best operating system ever made.
2019-07-04T19:49:16 < englishman> if you want a lower end product, you don't have to buy the windows license.
2019-07-04T19:51:30 < Steffanx> What are you going to innovate with it englishman  ?
2019-07-04T19:51:36 < Steffanx> Or is it a work tool
2019-07-04T19:52:53 < englishman> debugging <100kHz i2c from a msp430 of course
2019-07-04T19:53:32 < jadew> but you get to see the noise with utmost accuracy
2019-07-04T19:53:49 < Steffanx> Oh so a work toy it is. Since you wouldn't use msp430 when innovating at home
2019-07-04T19:54:26 < Steffanx> esp32 would be used then. Or edison
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2019-07-04T19:55:49 < englishman> yes I have hundreds of edisons arriving next week
2019-07-04T19:56:24 < Steffanx> How? Black market?
2019-07-04T19:57:05 < karlp> Mangy_Dog: can't you just port fastled or something?
2019-07-04T19:57:11 < karlp> it has impls for ~everything
2019-07-04T19:57:59 < Mangy_Dog> fastled is already ported i think
2019-07-04T19:58:05 < Mangy_Dog> but its not that i need a super simple library 
2019-07-04T19:58:18 < Mangy_Dog> no LUTs no RGB just basic channel data sending
2019-07-04T19:58:25 < karlp> oh, ok, I woudl have thought "ported already" was "workign => simple" but ok, build your own then :)
2019-07-04T19:58:26 < Mangy_Dog> im only running 6 white leds off 2 chips
2019-07-04T19:58:41 < Mangy_Dog> im not using the chips as typical rgb controllers
2019-07-04T19:58:46 < Mangy_Dog> just 6 white leds
2019-07-04T19:59:42 < Mangy_Dog> i also have the c8 version of the f103
2019-07-04T19:59:52 < Mangy_Dog> so kinda need to keep memory down
2019-07-04T20:00:05 < Mangy_Dog> even though the chip likely is a CB in disguise 
2019-07-04T20:00:18 < Thorn> it will probably be faster to respin the board
2019-07-04T20:00:40 < Mangy_Dog> no it really wont
2019-07-04T20:00:44 < Thorn> use a mcu in a bigger package + led driver IC like mbi5024
2019-07-04T20:00:52 < Mangy_Dog> i might make a change in rev2 but im nowhere nearer that
2019-07-04T20:01:15 < Mangy_Dog> no this is fine
2019-07-04T20:03:08 < englishman> you know you don't have to repeatedly send the same info right? you just have to set the leds once. then if you have a timer or dma or whatever you can give that resource back to something else
2019-07-04T20:03:50 < Mangy_Dog> i know
2019-07-04T20:04:04 < Mangy_Dog> ill hold the led data in memory though for some animation effects
2019-07-04T20:04:09 < Mangy_Dog> but its only 6 bytes so thats ok
2019-07-04T20:04:30 < Mangy_Dog> but fastled is a BIG complex library with 2 memory buffers its far more than i need and will just waste program space
2019-07-04T20:08:10 < englishman> doing a ws2812b driver is a good exercise why not do it yourself
2019-07-04T20:09:19 < Mangy_Dog> by stripping and editing this i kinda am
2019-07-04T20:09:43 < Mangy_Dog> im now looking into using a cycles based delay function, thats why i want to talk to rick
2019-07-04T20:10:40 < karlp> iirc zypsnips even has some ws281x stuff too
2019-07-04T20:10:55 < karlp> ws2812-thorn-dma-stuff.cc
2019-07-04T20:11:05 < karlp> I thought there was someone else's too
2019-07-04T20:11:14 < Mangy_Dog> also im not using the ws2812
2019-07-04T20:11:20 < Mangy_Dog> im using the ws2811
2019-07-04T20:11:29 < karlp> which, iirc from you, jsut means half the clock
2019-07-04T20:11:32 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2019-07-04T20:11:35 < Mangy_Dog> basically
2019-07-04T20:11:50 < Mangy_Dog> but the 12 i think didnt come in IC form only incorporated inside leds
2019-07-04T20:11:55 < Mangy_Dog> the 11 is in IC form
2019-07-04T20:12:06 < karlp> here's two versions, channel approved: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/WXx2AyllxB~c7RHdgAi74A
2019-07-04T20:13:08 < karlp> (though the first one uses pb0 for timer output, which you broke right?
2019-07-04T20:13:17 < Mangy_Dog> no
2019-07-04T20:13:25 < Mangy_Dog> im using PB0 as my dataline
2019-07-04T20:13:33 < Mangy_Dog> for the chips
2019-07-04T20:13:49 < karlp> so use dongs version. done.
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2019-07-04T20:32:27 < Mangy_Dog> interestingly
2019-07-04T20:32:36 < Mangy_Dog> the ws2811 can run at 800khz it seems
2019-07-04T20:32:48 < Mangy_Dog> just remember something i saw in the datasheet about setting high speed mode
2019-07-04T20:32:58 < Mangy_Dog> which i intentially did in the pcb layout
2019-07-04T20:33:16 < Mangy_Dog> turns out that the half timings of the datasheet are near anough a match to the 800khz range
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2019-07-04T21:05:44 < Steffanx> Damnit, a fucking bug in my screen. As in a real bug, a living creature.
2019-07-04T21:07:47 < Steffanx> A thunderfly it seems to be called.
2019-07-04T21:08:13 < Mangy_Dog> in the uk the really small ones are called midges
2019-07-04T21:08:23 < Mangy_Dog> and yeah get INSIDE the screen
2019-07-04T21:10:02 < Steffanx> Best thing is when it dies there
2019-07-04T21:11:45 < Mangy_Dog> HA
2019-07-04T21:11:49 < Mangy_Dog> i had to take apart an lcd once
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2019-07-04T22:44:33 < disposabled[m]> I've been using and stlink-v2 to connect to an stm32f103 with openocd
2019-07-04T22:44:40 < disposabled[m]> it's been working fine
2019-07-04T22:45:15 < disposabled[m]> but now when I run openocd, it fails because, "Unable to match requested speed 1000 kHz, using 950 kHz"
2019-07-04T22:45:38 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@2a01:e35:8b76:a0f0:8e3:ff38:316c:c3de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-07-04T22:45:44 < emeryth> that's not a failure
2019-07-04T22:45:53 < disposabled[m]> yeah. that may not be the reason
2019-07-04T22:46:40 < disposabled[m]> Error: open failed in procedure 'init' in procedure 'ocd_bouncer'
2019-07-04T22:47:59 < emeryth> check your wiring
2019-07-04T22:53:38 < disposabled[m]> hmm. now it spews a bunch of "Error: jtag status contains invalid mode value - communication failure"
2019-07-04T22:54:17 < disposabled[m]> "Polling target stm32f1x.cpu failed, trying to reexamine"
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2019-07-04T23:00:24 < emeryth> check again, try connecting under reset
2019-07-04T23:01:58 < disposabled[m]> what does it mean to connect under reset?
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2019-07-04T23:08:19 < Thorn> is it trying to connect via jtag rather than swd?
2019-07-04T23:08:44 < Thorn> jtag requires more wires than swd
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2019-07-04T23:11:23 < disposabled[m]> it's a bluepill
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2019-07-04T23:19:41 < disposabled[m]> I've just connected the 4 pins (3.3v, gnd, swclk, swdio) to the stlink
2019-07-04T23:19:57 < disposabled[m]> Like I said, it's been working
2019-07-04T23:21:00 < disposabled[m]> and... now (after about 20 tries) it worked again
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2019-07-04T23:24:47 < qyx> try shorter wires
2019-07-04T23:25:00 < qyx> also try shielded cable
2019-07-04T23:25:18 < qyx> scope the wires to see if thereis any garbage
2019-07-04T23:25:48 < qyx> it happens very often for me if I use classical dupont wires for SWD
2019-07-04T23:25:53 < qyx> or a 1m long cable
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2019-07-04T23:34:15 < disposabled[m]> I'm trying to get gdb working with ITM
2019-07-04T23:38:50 < disposabled[m]> I've told gdb to `monitor tpiu config internal itm.fifo uart off 8000000`
2019-07-04T23:41:12 < disposabled[m]> shouldn't that send ITM output to file?
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2019-07-04T23:56:58 < karlp> if you're aactually only running at 8MHz?
2019-07-04T23:57:42 < karlp> gdb won't ever show anything though, you're just passing a command through to oocd via the monitor prefix in gdb
--- Day changed Fri Jul 05 2019
2019-07-05T00:19:52 < disposabled[m]> right. oocd should dump it to file?
2019-07-05T00:21:31 < karlp> yes. works for me.
2019-07-05T00:21:42 < karlp> you know it's an extra pin right?
2019-07-05T00:21:53 < karlp> you can't just have 3v3, gnd, swclk and swdio
2019-07-05T00:25:53 < karlp> (this is another reason bluepills are teh suck)
2019-07-05T00:29:24 < Thorn> red pills are the only true way
2019-07-05T00:34:11 < Thorn> is this top contact? https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/UTB81l.AtODEXKJk43Oqq6Az3XXay.jpg https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/UTB8dHmptwQydeJk43PUq6AyQpXaj.jpg
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2019-07-05T00:39:17 < bitmask> oi
2019-07-05T00:39:54 < bitmask> testing out new fan duct prototype with a 360º overhang
2019-07-05T00:40:08 < bitmask> tired of working on it
2019-07-05T00:51:41 < Cracki> jadew, but yes it could! if you know which functions are ISRs, you can look at which variables are accessed in there _and_ anywhere else. then those likely need to be volatile (unless atomic block or other stuff).
2019-07-05T00:54:27 < jadew> Cracki, what about variables in helper functions, called from within the ISR?
2019-07-05T00:54:48 < jadew> some of those functions could take paths that NEVER access some of the variables
2019-07-05T00:54:52 < Cracki> fixed point iteration
2019-07-05T00:55:04 < jadew> the programmer would know that, but the compiler wouldn't
2019-07-05T00:55:10 < Cracki> so it's overly cautious
2019-07-05T00:55:31 < disposabled[m]> karlp: I didn't know I needed an extra pin
2019-07-05T00:55:34 < jadew> yeah, you can't cover all cases, so they don't cover them at all
2019-07-05T00:55:34 < Cracki> a proper type system would fix all that
2019-07-05T00:55:55 < karlp> disposabled[m]:well you do now :)
2019-07-05T00:56:01 < jadew> I don't think there's anything you can do in software to allow this optimization
2019-07-05T00:56:20 < disposabled[m]> karlp: yes. thanks
2019-07-05T00:56:32 < jadew> some of those conditions could be external, there's nothing stopping your from relying on external stuff
2019-07-05T00:56:43 < jadew> like you could have one pin tied to GND and rely on that
2019-07-05T00:57:04 < jadew> the compiler doesn't know about that
2019-07-05T00:57:19 < Cracki> nevermind
2019-07-05T00:59:36 < jadew> there's also the case of an ISR getting called while the same ISR is running
2019-07-05T01:00:03 < jadew> so even if the variable is not used anywhere else, it might still need to be volatile :)
2019-07-05T01:02:16 < jadew> the day when compilers can reason this stuff out is the day we are doomed
2019-07-05T01:03:38 < jadew> because it means they have started piecing things together for us and a lot of jobs will disappear in the blink of an eye
2019-07-05T01:05:52 < jadew> Cracki, I guess the correct answer is that it could and it will, just not yet :P
2019-07-05T01:07:19 < disposabled[m]> karlp: what is the SWO pin?
2019-07-05T01:07:55 < bitmask> man these goosenecks are shitty
2019-07-05T01:08:18 < jadew> oh, speaking of fans
2019-07-05T01:08:27 < disposabled[m]> karlp: nvm I see it
2019-07-05T01:08:29 < aandrew> disposabled[m]: it's an optional pin that lets you get access to some more debuggery (lots of people use it for serial console without consuming a UART, but there are considerable other uses as well)
2019-07-05T01:09:08 < jadew> my wife got a small hand operated fan for my son (a cheap toy), I can feel the draft from ~2 meters away
2019-07-05T01:09:19 < jadew> it's so powerful it's crazy
2019-07-05T01:09:21 < jadew> and it's tiny
2019-07-05T01:09:45 < karlp> aandrew:yar, they were tryign to configure it, but didn't know it was an extra pin :)
2019-07-05T01:10:38 < jadew> bitmask, exactly like this: https://www.amazon.in/Magideal-Mini-Portable-Fan-Blue/dp/B01K1TC2E6
2019-07-05T01:11:09 < bitmask> whats that in reference to?
2019-07-05T01:11:18 < jadew> fans
2019-07-05T01:11:23 < bitmask> my impeller project?
2019-07-05T01:11:26 < jadew> yeah
2019-07-05T01:11:27 < bitmask> ahhh
2019-07-05T01:11:56 < bitmask> the problem is thats an axial fan, they are good at moving air but not through a filter, you need pressure for that
2019-07-05T01:12:40 < aandrew> disposabled[m]: https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum
2019-07-05T01:12:50 < aandrew> also http://shadetail.com/blog/swo-instrumentation-first-tunes/
2019-07-05T01:13:16 < bitmask> thats a hand cranked fan?
2019-07-05T01:13:34 < jadew> bitmask, yeah
2019-07-05T01:13:39 < bitmask> interesting
2019-07-05T01:13:56 < jadew> I don't know how to measure or demonstrate it, but it's so freaking powerful
2019-07-05T01:14:06 < jadew> it's unbelievable
2019-07-05T01:14:47 < jadew> more powerful than many AC fans I've seen
2019-07-05T01:15:03 < jadew> and you can't even spin that thing too fast, because of the short handle
2019-07-05T01:15:06 < aandrew> it's the blue creature
2019-07-05T01:24:22 < jadew> off to bed, night
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2019-07-05T01:28:54 < disposabled[m]> aandrew: yes. I was more asking about which pin is the ITM pin, but I got it
2019-07-05T01:29:41 < disposabled[m]> except that my st-link doesn't appear to have the complementary pin
2019-07-05T01:32:37 < karlp> is it a china special? or an actual stlink, eitehr standalone or on a disco/nucleo board?
2019-07-05T01:41:38 < Thorn> AT070TN{82,84,90,92,94,etc} — what is the difference?
2019-07-05T01:46:42 < karlp> are they all 7inch?
2019-07-05T01:48:04 < karlp> could just be generations of them?
2019-07-05T01:48:08 < karlp> higher == better?
2019-07-05T01:51:11 < Thorn> all 7" 800x480 RGB interface with vsync, hsync etc.
2019-07-05T01:51:52  * karlp shrugs
2019-07-05T01:51:56 < Thorn> pinouts appear identical too
2019-07-05T01:52:05 < Thorn> need to collect more datasheets
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2019-07-05T01:58:08 < englishman> year of manufacture?
2019-07-05T01:58:44 < Thorn> starting with 1984?
2019-07-05T01:59:24 < Thorn> that would be Roswell tech back then lol
2019-07-05T01:59:34 < karlp> earspam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa1WW-mmxfc
2019-07-05T01:59:37 < Thorn> also why different part# for different years
2019-07-05T01:59:53 < englishman> what did the manufacturer say?
2019-07-05T02:00:52 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/PwDjD7x.png
2019-07-05T02:00:54 < qyx> karlp: safe for sleep?
2019-07-05T02:00:55 < bitmask> looks like the new fan duct is doing its job
2019-07-05T02:01:18 < Thorn> 3d printer: a device to make parts for a 3d printer
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2019-07-05T02:04:07 < karlp> qyx: urh, perhaps not? 
2019-07-05T02:04:48 < karlp> https://jkflesh.bandcamp.com/album/in-your-pit-e-p-2 is _possibly_ more sleep friendly.....
2019-07-05T02:06:50 < Thorn> is that image by Uno Moralez?
2019-07-05T02:07:45 < karlp> the jkflesh "album" cover? or the one in the youtube video of the motorbiking skeleton?
2019-07-05T02:07:50 < karlp> (either way, I have no idea)
2019-07-05T02:08:59 < karlp> after looking up uno moralez, I'd say no, their style is more ... dotty? pixels /dithering
2019-07-05T02:09:12 < karlp> the skeleton biker is smooth lines, but I see what you were getting at
2019-07-05T02:09:52 < Thorn> looks similar enough if it reminded me of him lol
2019-07-05T02:10:47 < karlp> thanks for this though: https://unomoralez.com/loops.html?cid=1&offset=3
2019-07-05T02:10:54 < karlp> zano in mid right
2019-07-05T02:11:42 < qyx> yeah not, perhaps
2019-07-05T02:15:10 < Thorn> this is his most famous(?) work https://unomoralez.com/loops.html?cid=1&offset=9
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2019-07-05T03:10:35 < Thorn> ILI9486 initialization sequence contains undocumented commands
2019-07-05T03:10:35 < Thorn> good job
2019-07-05T03:19:16 < karlp> this is your fault thorn.  or... your ... thanks? https://imgprx.livejournal.net/st/UGPwopNPGNr0LiXtjV1JfQ7dY0gfQ1UPfXnjcDWoX6A/66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly5v7n84Ib1qb9pa3o1_500.gif
2019-07-05T03:20:59 < Thorn> wtf is that
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2019-07-05T04:04:35 < karlp> something from uno moralez's tumblr. or livejournal. I'm not sure which
2019-07-05T04:04:50 < karlp> I started reading http://www.tcj.com/uno-moralez/ and got distracted
2019-07-05T04:28:58 < disposabled[m]> isn't the HCLK on an stm32f103 72MHz?
2019-07-05T04:30:17 < Thorn> maximum is 72MHz iirc yes
2019-07-05T04:30:43 < Thorn> actual frequency is whatever you set up
2019-07-05T04:30:57 < karlp> dynamic clocking?! what's thhat?!
2019-07-05T04:31:00 < disposabled[m]> so that is what I need to set tpiu with gdb?
2019-07-05T04:31:37 < disposabled[m]> Thorn: it defaults to 72MHz if I don't change it, right?
2019-07-05T04:31:54 < disposabled[m]> it=>HCLK
2019-07-05T04:33:20 < disposabled[m]> so if I want to capture ITM logging, I need to monitor tpiu config uart off 72000000 ?
2019-07-05T04:33:40 < karlp> no, it defaults to (iirc) 16mhz on f1, 
2019-07-05T04:33:51 < karlp> (from reset, hsi)
2019-07-05T04:34:00 < karlp> what have you set your clock to?
2019-07-05T04:34:40 < karlp> no, 8Mhz HSI on reset on f1
2019-07-05T04:35:36 < aandrew> karlp: that's a 403 on that, dawg
2019-07-05T04:36:03 < disposabled[m]> karlp: I didn't set the clock
2019-07-05T04:36:31 < karlp> aandrew: yeah, someone else said that too: @moch | https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly5v7n84Ib1qb9pa3o1_500.gif works better
2019-07-05T04:36:45 < karlp> disposabled[m]: then the 8mhz you had in your original psate should hve been ok, 
2019-07-05T04:37:01 < aandrew> jonbenet?
2019-07-05T04:37:03 < karlp> (but you probably want to work on that, 8Mhz is rookie numbers, you gotta pump that up)
2019-07-05T04:39:25 < disposabled[m]> :-)
2019-07-05T04:39:31 < disposabled[m]> I'm a rookie
2019-07-05T04:40:33 < disposabled[m]> I've set the trace freq to 2000000
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2019-07-05T04:40:59 < disposabled[m]> I connected PB3 to my UART
2019-07-05T04:41:09 < disposabled[m]> but I'm not seeing anything
2019-07-05T04:41:21 < karlp> you don't get to make up a frequency
2019-07-05T04:41:36 < karlp> that parameter to oocd is the frequency of your system. you need to match it.
2019-07-05T04:42:24 < disposabled[m]> I didn't make the number up, exactly. I saw it in a guide. I don't know how to find the freq of my system
2019-07-05T04:42:50 < karlp> yes you do, you configure that in your own code :)
2019-07-05T04:43:03 < karlp> gib codez pls
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2019-07-05T04:46:59 < disposabled[m]> in that case, I haven't set any
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2019-07-05T04:53:19 < aandrew> karlp: so you're probably running from INTRC and without PLL
2019-07-05T04:56:23 < disposabled[m]> karlp: If I don't set freq, it will still be 8MHz?
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2019-07-05T04:57:22 < disposabled[m]> so tpiu should be 8000000 8000000 ?
2019-07-05T05:00:07 < karlp> just one of them, but yes.
2019-07-05T05:00:27 < karlp> disposabled[m]: what environment are you in, stdperiphlib, hal, mbed, stm32duion locm3, ....?
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2019-07-05T05:05:02 < bitmask> wooo fireworks
2019-07-05T05:06:23 < disposabled[m]> karlp: it balks when I leave off the second
2019-07-05T05:06:51 < disposabled[m]> for external capture
2019-07-05T05:07:21 < karlp> yoiu were using internal earlier.
2019-07-05T05:07:30 < karlp> IU can't help if you change your plans .)
2019-07-05T05:07:32 < karlp> http://openocd.org/doc/html/Architecture-and-Core-Commands.html
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2019-07-05T05:09:26 < disposabled[m]> karlp: sorry. I switched to external because of the external uart
2019-07-05T05:10:04 < disposabled[m]> I figured it was better to just capture fro the UART independent of gdb
2019-07-05T05:10:21 < karlp> gdb has nothing to do with this, I tried telling you that earlier
2019-07-05T05:10:46 < karlp> you can tell openocd things via "monitor" in gdb, but that's it.
2019-07-05T05:10:52 < disposabled[m]> I mean independent of openocd
2019-07-05T05:11:19 < karlp> It's boring, but you do kinda need to be precise with these things :)
2019-07-05T05:12:20 < disposabled[m]> I understand the need for precise language. I'm just struggling with the learning
2019-07-05T05:12:30 < disposabled[m]> I don't mind corrections
2019-07-05T05:12:40 < disposabled[m]> I'm sorry that I require them
2019-07-05T05:12:44 < karlp> no problem
2019-07-05T05:12:59 < karlp> so, does your uart dongle your using actuallysupport 8Mhzcapture?
2019-07-05T05:13:00 < disposabled[m]> I appreciate the patience
2019-07-05T05:13:23 < karlp> and did you switch to an external uart dongle because you had a china busted "stlink"
2019-07-05T05:13:45 < disposabled[m]> ok. so that second number is for the uart dongle? I thought so, but got steered back to the f1
2019-07-05T05:14:11 < karlp> I've not actually tried external capture myself, and I don't what the restrictions are on the two.
2019-07-05T05:14:34 < karlp> I know the first must match hclk, and second haas examples of a different speed in the oocd manual, but I'v eonly ever used internal via stlink.
2019-07-05T05:21:11 < disposabled[m]> karlp: I'm using an arduino uno for ftdi. It has a atmega8u2 for that
2019-07-05T05:21:29 < karlp> there's ~no chance it can do 8Mhz receive then.
2019-07-05T05:21:38 < disposabled[m]> the atmega8u2 has a max clock of 16MHz
2019-07-05T05:21:51 < karlp> again, was this because you had a china "stlink" that didn't hve an swo pin?
2019-07-05T05:22:03 < disposabled[m]> yes
2019-07-05T05:22:33 < karlp> get some sort of real usb uart chip if you want to do this via "external" or buy a nucleo64 board for ~10 currency units and have a real stlink that actually works and can do trace
2019-07-05T05:22:42 < karlp> I know that's _FIVE TIMES_ the price of a china stlink,
2019-07-05T05:22:49 < karlp> but it's actually functional
2019-07-05T05:23:20 < karlp> I love that you're trying to do trace, but you're trying to do it with sticks and flint
2019-07-05T05:23:45 < disposabled[m]> I went cheap to start until I could learn there were acronyms like SWO and ITM that matter
2019-07-05T05:24:16 < karlp> I understand, it' sok.
2019-07-05T05:24:49 < karlp> I've heard of people modifying china stlinks to "fix" the swo capture and so on,
2019-07-05T05:25:16 < karlp> but you're going to have to step up from "absurdly, subsidized cheap" to "really cheap" 
2019-07-05T05:25:43 < karlp> we've spent more time in technical support here already than the price of a nucleo64 board.
2019-07-05T05:25:54 < disposabled[m]> I've seen fixes. But I'm not going there
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2019-07-05T07:09:43 < fenugrec> "10 currency units", heh
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2019-07-05T09:48:48 < jadew> morning
2019-07-05T09:50:49 < Steffanx> Hello
2019-07-05T09:51:06 < jadew> how's your array?
2019-07-05T09:54:38 < jadew> how did you end up doing it?
2019-07-05T09:56:12 < Steffanx> I'm still not sure. I'm not convinced it cannot (or will not in the future) do some optimizations on the array. 
2019-07-05T09:57:59 < jadew> I'm not either
2019-07-05T09:58:04 < jadew> you could make the pointer volatile
2019-07-05T09:58:40 < jadew> then, element access won't be optimized
2019-07-05T09:59:00 < jadew> while work done with the element's data is still fair game
2019-07-05T09:59:25 < jadew> which will mean that once you have that flag on and you start getting elements out, you'll get fresh elements every time
2019-07-05T09:59:36 < jadew> but once you start using them, they'll be up for optimization
2019-07-05T10:00:01 < jadew> how's that?
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2019-07-05T10:05:01 < Steffanx> As in a volatile ptr to non volatile data?
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2019-07-05T10:18:08 < jadew> Steffanx, yeah
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2019-07-05T12:01:27 < jly> https://i.imgur.com/4WWjRrm.jpg
2019-07-05T12:19:20 < Mangy_Dog> :o
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2019-07-05T12:38:15 < jly> do you wanna suck my dick or something?
2019-07-05T12:39:28 < jly> Haohmaru: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XndURdFvALs
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2019-07-05T12:53:51 < Mangy_Dog> ok now im getting a tinsy bit concerned, Ive not heard from rick kimbal for  several days. Not from the stmduino forums or here... Anyone know if hes ok?
2019-07-05T12:54:40 < jly> well it goes with the territory
2019-07-05T12:55:02 < jly> *duino and you'll be sucking cocks full tilt until you get really sick
2019-07-05T12:55:16 < Mangy_Dog> if only
2019-07-05T12:55:47 < jly> I hope the guy is okay, there is a definite fix
2019-07-05T12:57:53 < jly> first i'd recommend stm32f4 discovery board and keil mdk-arm
2019-07-05T12:59:49 < Mangy_Dog> my f1 chip will do just fine right now thank you :)
2019-07-05T13:00:10 < jly> they're good too
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2019-07-05T13:01:38 < jadew> why is it illegal to feed drugs to aniamls?
2019-07-05T13:01:42 < jadew> *animals
2019-07-05T13:01:51 < jadew> drug companies do it all the time
2019-07-05T13:01:52 < jly> i'd leave it for the vet
2019-07-05T13:02:01 < jadew> kids do it too, in school
2019-07-05T13:02:13 < jadew> yet that guy can't run his own experiment?
2019-07-05T13:02:22 < jly> my friend's cat starts tripping balls everytime they put him under (remove a tooth)
2019-07-05T13:02:30 < jadew> he could revolutionize warfare
2019-07-05T13:04:16 < jadew> heard a story about a drunk pig once - that's how far I've ever gotten to an animal under the influence of drugs
2019-07-05T13:04:42 < jly> oh
2019-07-05T13:05:11 < jly> it was funny when that cat was tripping out
2019-07-05T13:05:20 < jly> he thought everyone was the devil
2019-07-05T13:05:34 < jadew> poor cat
2019-07-05T13:05:45 < jly> it was not some intentional act
2019-07-05T13:06:03 < jly> he had to get teeth pulled 
2019-07-05T13:06:16 < jly> so he was grumpy for a few days instead of lots of pain
2019-07-05T13:06:48 < jadew> do they grow back?
2019-07-05T13:07:45 < jadew> wiki says no
2019-07-05T13:07:58 < jly> I don't even know if cats have 'baby' teeth 
2019-07-05T13:08:04 < jadew> apparently mamals are an exception to the infinite teeth thing
2019-07-05T13:08:31 < jly> oh wait yes they do my friends kitten lost a few 'baby teeth'
2019-07-05T13:08:38 < jly> this was like 10 days ago
2019-07-05T13:08:56 < jly> also if you want to trip out.... look up animal blood types
2019-07-05T13:09:07 < jadew> yeah, apparently you can either have infinite teeth or just two sets
2019-07-05T13:09:09 < jly> I think dogs have 3 blood types and cats have like 10
2019-07-05T13:09:24 < jly> my friend's whippet got a blood transfusion.
2019-07-05T13:09:41 < jadew> how do they harvest that blood?
2019-07-05T13:09:42 < jly> $7000 of stuff to save that little woofer's life
2019-07-05T13:09:50 < jly> fuck knows! I never asked much
2019-07-05T13:09:52 < jadew> unclaimed stray cats?
2019-07-05T13:10:00 < jly> nah it was a dog
2019-07-05T13:10:05 < jadew> or dogs
2019-07-05T13:10:15 < jly> don't think you can load a dog with cat blood :D
2019-07-05T13:11:37 < jly> cats are holy creatures in this house
2019-07-05T13:12:11 < jadew> I used to have cats too when I was a kid, loved them, but wouldn't get one again, unless I lived on a farm
2019-07-05T13:12:47 < jly> immune mediated thrombocytopenia - that's what almost killed the dog
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2019-07-05T13:13:12 < jadew> and the blood transfusion saved it?
2019-07-05T13:13:25 < jly> yep
2019-07-05T13:13:46 < jly> basically the immune system declared war on blood 
2019-07-05T13:13:57 < jly> dog had lots of internal bleeding
2019-07-05T13:14:07 < jly> was all fucked up
2019-07-05T13:14:53 < jly> guy was meant to cancel his pet insurance but forgot
2019-07-05T13:15:08 < jly> you can bet he was glad he didn't cancel it :)
2019-07-05T13:15:25 < jly> his wife was pretty happy too
2019-07-05T13:16:03 < jadew> didn't know there's something like that
2019-07-05T13:18:19 < jly> yeah it was all news to me
2019-07-05T13:18:59 < jly> 6 months before that when my sister's puppy came down with some horrendous congenital genetic thing
2019-07-05T13:19:02 < jly> they couldn't save her
2019-07-05T13:19:10 < jly> she had pet insurance too
2019-07-05T13:21:19 < jly> it would seem the average meow machine is a well oiled machine
2019-07-05T13:21:28 < jly> quite durable
2019-07-05T13:22:49 < Mangy_Dog> wow usbcomposite library takes up A LOT of programming space
2019-07-05T13:23:05 < zyp> aww
2019-07-05T13:23:11 < Mangy_Dog> ive taken just half setting up a few buttons :o
2019-07-05T13:23:18 < Mangy_Dog> i have the c8 variant
2019-07-05T13:23:27 < Mangy_Dog> of the chip
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2019-07-05T13:26:13 < jly> how much is it taking up
2019-07-05T13:26:58 < Mangy_Dog> only built the basic code and imported the HID and assigned my buttons to the outputs.... 24144bytes
2019-07-05T13:27:06 < Mangy_Dog> on a 64kb program space
2019-07-05T13:27:20 < Mangy_Dog> i mean just under half 
2019-07-05T13:27:21 < Mangy_Dog> but still
2019-07-05T13:27:40 < Mangy_Dog> i thought the c8 chips i had in my bin would do the job
2019-07-05T13:27:46 < Mangy_Dog> im not 100% certain they will now
2019-07-05T13:27:51 < Mangy_Dog> im going to have to be creative with my code
2019-07-05T13:28:17 < Mangy_Dog> and no i deffo cant write my own USB hib library
2019-07-05T13:28:17 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2019-07-05T13:28:30 < Mangy_Dog> that is certainly beyowned my skill level
2019-07-05T13:29:19 < Mangy_Dog> ok its closer to a quater of program space but still
2019-07-05T13:29:21 < Mangy_Dog> its a lot
2019-07-05T13:29:30 < Mangy_Dog> for very little front code
2019-07-05T13:29:38 < jly> what would you predict taking up another 32kb
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2019-07-05T13:31:00 < Mangy_Dog> wow also takes 27% of the memory as well
2019-07-05T13:31:35 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/wxsfTyzk/c.png
2019-07-05T13:31:57 < Mangy_Dog> jily tbh not sure if it would... but i have tons of other functions i need to write including debounce, button interactions later reading in commands sent from the host machine
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2019-07-05T14:46:34 < karlp> what composite library are you using now?
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2019-07-05T15:22:50 < zyp> a hid device with my stack probably only consumes a fourth of that, without size optimizing it :p
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2019-07-05T17:03:23 < jadew> they don't make maids like they used to: http://188.27.5.74/stuff/maids.png
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2019-07-05T18:47:41 < Thorn> is it allowed to NAK a data stage of a control transfer and for how long?
2019-07-05T18:52:42 < Cracki> nak nak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTDUuBWGtpU
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2019-07-05T19:07:06 < englishman> The funcgen in this TEK scope is TOTAL SHIT
2019-07-05T19:08:20 < karlp> did you buy the funcgen software package?
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2019-07-05T19:19:45 < englishman> you need to in order to have the funcgen
2019-07-05T19:26:40 < zyp> Thorn, yes
2019-07-05T19:26:58 < zyp> how long depends on the timeout, I think max is something like 5s or so
2019-07-05T19:28:52 < zyp> it's totally fine to have a control read that starts e.g. a SPI requests and then NAKs the data stage until the results are ready
2019-07-05T19:29:07 < zyp> I've done that a bunch of times
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2019-07-05T19:43:53 < Thorn> education on a very complicated topic by TI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rnr8rgxiGM
2019-07-05T19:45:46 < Thorn> zyp: my L0 driver fails with debug printing enabled (when there's a lot of it). it's either some protocol timeout (unlikely) or something wrong with transaction handling that manifests itself when another transaction happens before the previous one is handled
2019-07-05T19:50:16 < Steffanx> No msp430 involved thorn?
2019-07-05T19:56:46 < Thorn> >L0
2019-07-05T20:10:42 < jadew> englishman, in what way?
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2019-07-05T20:27:59 < englishman> http://i.imgur.com/f0hRzou.jpg
2019-07-05T20:28:30 < jadew> you already broke it?
2019-07-05T20:30:44 < Thorn> the NOT OK button is missing
2019-07-05T20:35:39 < Thorn> how many layers do you need to fan out a UFBGA176 stm32? (most pins will be used)
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2019-07-05T20:42:53 < Cracki> "how many circles of hell" is the right question for when you have a BGA
2019-07-05T20:43:32 < Cracki> looks like four circles, so at most four layers
2019-07-05T20:43:43 < Cracki> unless you can sneak between pins/vias
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2019-07-05T20:46:04 < Cracki> 0.65 mm ball pitch?
2019-07-05T20:46:41 < Cracki> that's ~.025" so you might be in luck
2019-07-05T20:47:52 < Thorn> looks like aliexpress sellers don't care which exact AT070TNxx part# they sell, they differentiate them by thickness (3mm vs 5mm) lol
2019-07-05T20:51:28 < Cracki> nxp recommendation for 0.65mm bga fanout: https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/application-note/AN10778.pdf
2019-07-05T20:51:36 < Cracki> they do the sneaky thing
2019-07-05T20:54:39 < Cracki> so... 2 layers
2019-07-05T21:01:51 < Thorn> that's an interesting document, thanks
2019-07-05T21:04:07 < aandrew> UFBGA176? what is that the 0.8mm?
2019-07-05T21:04:51 < aandrew> I did STM32F756NG in 6 layers, they did ZI in 8 but could have easily done 6
2019-07-05T21:05:17 < aandrew> but I also do 0.2mm blind/through vias
2019-07-05T21:17:46 < Cracki> wew that STM32F756NG has bga pinouts with no quiet center
2019-07-05T21:19:04 < Cracki> ok not bga but WLCSP143
2019-07-05T21:51:58 < zyp> Thorn, fails where?
2019-07-05T21:52:09 < zyp> IIRC set_address is the strictest standard control request
2019-07-05T21:54:48 < Thorn> it does enumerate on mac os, get strubg descriptor requests from xusb fail randomly
2019-07-05T21:55:10 < Thorn> on windows it doesn't seem to enumerate at all
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2019-07-05T22:25:25 < englishman> http://i.imgur.com/QTS3LkZ.jpg
2019-07-05T22:26:43 < Thorn> should have gone with Rigol instead
2019-07-05T22:27:51 < specing> and GNU+Linux
2019-07-05T22:31:19 < englishman> scope is kaput
2019-07-05T22:47:19 < Steffanx> > windows.
2019-07-05T23:16:52 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/Q9CQO6X
2019-07-05T23:17:55 < bitmask> surge protector/USB + magnifying LED Lamp + 4x metal gooseneck alligator clips = ultimate helping hand
2019-07-05T23:22:09 < bitmask> just added 2 real photos to show how 1337 my modeling skillz are
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2019-07-05T23:32:01 < Cracki> that blue thing looks fancy, but too large to be 3dprinted
2019-07-05T23:32:14 < Cracki> ah cgi
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2019-07-05T23:33:56 < Cracki> hm no, that one is real. camera artefacts visible.
2019-07-05T23:34:38 < bitmask> two real to show my modeling skills for the fake black wood grain and silicone mat :P 2 renders showing the part I plan on printing (yes its too big, gonna have to cut it up)
2019-07-05T23:35:02 < bitmask> unless you were talking about the silicone mat
2019-07-05T23:35:19 < Cracki> I did consider the silicone mat before I scrolled down
2019-07-05T23:35:42 < Cracki> mold for that could also be done in pieces
2019-07-05T23:36:19 < Cracki> one could even hide the seams as part of a subtle ruler grid
2019-07-05T23:36:22 < bitmask> I wish I had more room to hang tools there, may have to create another for the next level of the tiered drawer
2019-07-05T23:36:53 < bitmask> only room on the one I showed for calipers and some screwdriver bits
2019-07-05T23:37:10 < bitmask> and the helping hands are gonna slide in that slot on top
2019-07-05T23:37:17 < Cracki> get peg board, hang it all on that
2019-07-05T23:38:22 < bitmask> yea pegboard is the idea when I get out of this place, but for now, actually I dunno, maybe I'll throw a small one up
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2019-07-05T23:48:06 < jadew> englishman, are those errors persistent?
2019-07-05T23:49:24 < jadew> bitmask, that attachment looks nice
2019-07-05T23:49:36 < bitmask> thanks
2019-07-05T23:50:10 < jadew> what's that groove for?
2019-07-05T23:51:02 < jadew> some sliding thing?
2019-07-05T23:51:37 < bitmask> I bought these metal gooseneck things from aliexpress, gonna attach alligator clips to one end and print a piece that screws onto the other end that will slide in that groove and have a thumscrew to hold it in place where you want it
2019-07-05T23:51:52 < bitmask> just making my own helping hands
2019-07-05T23:52:07 < jadew> interesting
2019-07-05T23:53:01 < bitmask> this led magnifying lamp I got uses the same metal gooseneck so I'll have that lamp + 2 arms on the right side in that groove, and then I gotta attach something to the top of the table to add two to the left of the silicone mat
2019-07-05T23:53:38 < jadew> so that attachment is not going to be made from plastic?
2019-07-05T23:53:46 < bitmask> it is
2019-07-05T23:54:07 < bitmask> what, you dont think it will support what I said?
2019-07-05T23:54:23 < jadew> I imagined a heavier lamp I guess
2019-07-05T23:54:28 < karlp> what's the buttons/holes at the end of the slotted channel?
2019-07-05T23:54:28 < bitmask> nah its light
2019-07-05T23:54:30 < jadew> it wouldn't support mine for example
2019-07-05T23:54:40 < karlp> and the blue and red buttons? on the end of the power strip?
2019-07-05T23:54:43 < jadew> karlp, music control I imagine?
2019-07-05T23:55:07 < bitmask> karlp I have a bunch of loose screwdriver bits I switch between that are always all over the place so the hex holes on top are for those, the thing on the end is the control for the lamp
2019-07-05T23:55:40 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32967268978.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.42ef4c4djvM6L0
2019-07-05T23:55:42 < bitmask> thats the lamp
2019-07-05T23:56:04 < Cracki> what term can the gooseneck things be found under
2019-07-05T23:56:06 < jadew> makes sense
2019-07-05T23:56:12 < karlp> fair enough,
2019-07-05T23:56:17 < jadew> flexible arm
2019-07-05T23:56:27 < karlp> and theh two? hooks underneath? that's for loops of test leads?
2019-07-05T23:56:34 < Cracki> makes sense
2019-07-05T23:57:02 < bitmask> thats to hold my digital calipers
2019-07-05T23:57:21 < jadew> I assumed it was for cables too
2019-07-05T23:57:30 < jadew> I still struggle with cables
2019-07-05T23:57:35 < jadew> I keep them in an ikea box
2019-07-05T23:57:37 < bitmask> not a bad idea to incorporate some cable management stuff
2019-07-05T23:58:20 < jadew> problem with cable holders is that they have to be higher than desk level, since most cables are longer than that
2019-07-05T23:58:37 < Cracki> all the 'serious" cable management I've seen has them hanging on rack thingies
2019-07-05T23:58:59 < Cracki> like a 20-pronged fork or metal plate with slots in it, to hold the ends
2019-07-05T23:59:28 < Cracki> the longer cables get folded in half or quartered
--- Day changed Sat Jul 06 2019
2019-07-06T00:00:22 < Cracki> the coiled up stuff we have is getting hung on a wall like coats
2019-07-06T00:01:45 < Cracki> keeping that in boxes might save space and keep them away from dust, but the only way to keep "boxes of cables" tidy is to be obsessive about it and shoot offenders on sight
2019-07-06T00:03:59 < karlp> so, completely ok for a solo operator like bitmasks' home
2019-07-06T00:08:17 < jadew> Cracki, I don't have much trouble with them getting tangled
2019-07-06T00:08:30 < jadew> but I don't just drop them in either
2019-07-06T00:08:39 < Cracki> me neither but I'm working with imbeciles
2019-07-06T00:08:40 < jadew> I roll them either individually or in pairs
2019-07-06T00:08:48 < Cracki> velcro straps help a lot
2019-07-06T00:08:58 < Cracki> but my imbeciles don't even know how to use velcro straps
2019-07-06T00:09:03 < Cracki> their mommies tie their shoes
2019-07-06T00:09:09 < Cracki> (velcro strap shoes)
2019-07-06T00:09:16 < jadew> heh
2019-07-06T00:09:38 < jadew> I also have something for cable management under my desk, from ikea also
2019-07-06T00:09:53 < jadew> that's where I hang some of the coaxial cables
2019-07-06T00:10:01 < Cracki> (they're adults, at least on paper, and passed enough tests to be allowed to study computer science...)
2019-07-06T00:10:27 < Cracki> you hang your coax under the table?
2019-07-06T00:10:35 < jadew> yeah
2019-07-06T00:10:39 < jadew> https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30200253/
2019-07-06T00:10:39 < Cracki> coiled I take it
2019-07-06T00:10:44 < jadew> yeah
2019-07-06T00:10:44 < Cracki> or are those coaxes short enough
2019-07-06T00:10:48 < jadew> no, coiled
2019-07-06T00:10:59 < Cracki> oh, that looks nice
2019-07-06T00:11:05 < jadew> I even have a vise hanging on one of those ends
2019-07-06T00:11:37 < jadew> needed a place for it so it's close enough, but out of sight
2019-07-06T00:11:51 < Cracki> under-desk shelves, last time I saw that was in high school, and they were wooden and all carved up by bored teenagers
2019-07-06T00:12:38 < Cracki> I can picture that being convenient at the underside of a shelf above the work surface
2019-07-06T00:12:52 < jadew> I have some of those too, for tools & regular things, like some leads, meters, dev tools, helping hands, etc
2019-07-06T00:14:25 < jadew> but mainly, my stuff is stored in ikea boxes
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2019-07-06T01:43:56 < kakimir> kaki
2019-07-06T01:45:42 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Y2K4GCgN/ty.JPG
2019-07-06T01:46:17 < jly> gaSSed
2019-07-06T01:46:31 < R2COM> fuck i forgot in visualGDB when you wanted to turn on fast semihosting what trick needs to be done during project creation
2019-07-06T01:46:43 < R2COM> cuz there is some self-excluding shit there which needs to be switched
2019-07-06T01:46:57 < R2COM> like...if you enable it at project start you have to disable same feature in settings somewhere
2019-07-06T01:47:31 < R2COM> jly lol thats really cool
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2019-07-06T01:48:48 < englishman> jadew: the seek shotpro is super bad
2019-07-06T01:48:55 < englishman> flir is 9000x better
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2019-07-06T01:51:12 < R2COM> nevermind i found the solution
2019-07-06T01:51:13 < rajkosto> R2COM, you disable the native semihosting support
2019-07-06T01:51:30 < rajkosto> its either library semihosting or visualgdb fast semihosting plugin
2019-07-06T01:51:42 < R2COM> fast semihosting > native, rite?
2019-07-06T01:52:18 < R2COM> yeah you disable native and enable fast one
2019-07-06T01:52:34 < R2COM> (so during project creation there is *no* need to select semihosting, just do it later manually)
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2019-07-06T04:05:52 < englishman> lcsc = low cost supply chain
2019-07-06T04:05:56 < englishman> mind = blown
2019-07-06T04:11:35 < aandrew> haha nice
2019-07-06T04:11:41 < aandrew> I did not know that
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2019-07-06T04:34:23 < mawk> I'm trying to do an audio amp
2019-07-06T04:35:31 < mawk> http://bit.ly/2xv4rdd
2019-07-06T04:37:53 < Cracki> cjs has "transmission lines" if you need 50 ohm
2019-07-06T04:38:53 < mawk> I'm not extra sure about that 50 ohm
2019-07-06T04:38:55 < mawk> it's supposed to be a speaker
2019-07-06T04:39:24 < mawk> I'd put 8 ohms there but I'm not sure if that's the 1Khz impedence or the DC impedence
2019-07-06T04:39:38 < mawk> using 8 ohms in cjs makes my amplifier a bad amplifier
2019-07-06T04:39:47 < Cracki> then it's probably bad
2019-07-06T04:40:12 < mawk> I'd need a negative supply to get rid of that last 100µF coupling cap
2019-07-06T04:40:18 < mawk> to make it good again
2019-07-06T04:40:26 < mawk> but I have none at home to try the circuit in real conditions
2019-07-06T04:40:30 < Cracki> it's also impedance, not just resistance
2019-07-06T04:40:38 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-06T04:40:58 < mawk> I tried with a coil there too
2019-07-06T04:41:01 < Cracki> a speaker is a coil, so it resists change of current
2019-07-06T04:41:27 < mawk> so the impedence is 8ohms at 1kHz typically right ?
2019-07-06T04:41:30 < bitmask> what to print what to print
2019-07-06T04:41:52 < mawk> and if I measure like 2.5ohm DC impedence I must put a coil such that for 1kHz frequency I have 5.5 ohm impedence, is that good ?
2019-07-06T04:41:58 < Cracki> print nastygrams. on calibration bricks.
2019-07-06T04:42:54 < mawk> impedance with a a is even better
2019-07-06T04:43:49 < Cracki> no clue about any of this but reading https://www.eminence.com/support/understanding-loudspeaker-data/
2019-07-06T04:52:09 < Cracki> I see "clipping" for 100uH. for 5mH it's almost ok.
2019-07-06T04:53:35 < Cracki> what is an audio amplifier supposed to do, create current in the coil/speaker proportional to input voltage?
2019-07-06T04:54:42 < Thorn> >Low IQ Products - Microchip Technology Inc
2019-07-06T04:54:45 < Thorn> I kinda hoped for low Iq instead
2019-07-06T04:54:51 < Cracki> ;)
2019-07-06T04:57:59 < Cracki> TIL: "power" amplifier isn't called that because it delivers power, but because it does P_out := P_in * K
2019-07-06T05:04:05 < Thorn> yeah a transformer is never a  power amplifier
2019-07-06T05:21:21 < Cracki> there's a lot implied by those words that I'm unaware of
2019-07-06T05:30:02 < mawk> Cracki: the perfect audio post-amplifier (the thing I'm trying to do, which I suppose would be called a power amplifier in my book) is supposed to be some buffer device
2019-07-06T05:30:14 < mawk> large input impedance, low output impedance
2019-07-06T05:30:34 < mawk> I guess power amplifier has several meanings
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2019-07-06T05:32:01 < Cracki> I can't understand this in terms of impedance
2019-07-06T05:32:03 < Cracki> how is that thing supposed to behave in terms of voltage and current
2019-07-06T05:32:13 < mawk> same voltage as input that as output
2019-07-06T05:32:17 < mawk> same or multiple
2019-07-06T05:32:30 < Cracki> ic
2019-07-06T05:32:33 < mawk> the current is just any current that is enough to drive the load to guarantee seeing the correct voltage at load
2019-07-06T05:32:54 < Cracki> for dc or low frequencies against an inductor, that's gonna be a problem
2019-07-06T05:33:09 < mawk> yeah real devices have high pass in front I guess
2019-07-06T05:33:16 < Cracki> makes sense
2019-07-06T05:33:23 < Cracki> except for subwoofers
2019-07-06T05:33:38 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-06T05:34:00 < Cracki> input voltage is supposed to be proportional to sound pressure level
2019-07-06T05:34:18 < Cracki> I guess working backwards from that a few things follow
2019-07-06T05:34:37 < Cracki> wait, not SPL, that's power
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2019-07-06T06:59:03 < emeb_mac> mmm... earthquakes
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2019-07-06T08:21:42 < antto> urfkwakes
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2019-07-06T09:21:25 < dongs>    any less retarded way to do stuff like func(void *handle) { some_internal_struct_t *work = (some_internal_struct_t *)handle; ?
2019-07-06T09:21:35 -!- Ik90 [~Ik90@157.49.224.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-07-06T09:21:50 < dongs> (without exposing internal struct to public api
2019-07-06T09:22:04 < dongs> i guess i could forward declare it as struct foo in public header and then just include that?
2019-07-06T09:22:12 < dongs> then define the stuff internally
2019-07-06T09:22:29 < dongs> but then i have to do func(struct nigger *handle) cuz i cant typedef it right?
2019-07-06T09:23:38 < antto> aww, why void* ;P~
2019-07-06T09:23:48 < dongs> any better choices?
2019-07-06T09:23:55 < dongs> i mean i could do intptr_t or something
2019-07-06T09:24:37 < antto> i guess some_internal_struct_t is not supposed to be important for the user?
2019-07-06T09:24:59 < dongs> correct
2019-07-06T09:25:02 < dongs> it won't be in public header at all
2019-07-06T09:25:04 < antto> and it's needed to hold the variables of like an "instance" of something
2019-07-06T09:25:14 < dongs> ya
2019-07-06T09:25:17 < antto> right
2019-07-06T09:25:26 < antto> so you're stuck in C then
2019-07-06T09:25:40 < antto> in C++ this is not a problem
2019-07-06T09:25:56 < antto> you simply make an instance of yer object, and func() is a member, and nothing can go wrong
2019-07-06T09:26:04 < antto> encapsulation + methods
2019-07-06T09:26:41 < dongs> gay.
2019-07-06T09:26:56 < antto> but i know there isn't an elegant way to get this in C, that's why i switched to C++ on embedded stuffz
2019-07-06T09:27:15 < antto> except on pics, where there's only C (f*ck that sh*t)
2019-07-06T09:27:38  * antto hugs avrgcc7
2019-07-06T09:28:47 < antto> okay, so what's the retarded aspect of the code you showed above?
2019-07-06T09:28:56 < antto> it's too long to write? or the compiler complains?
2019-07-06T09:29:04 < dongs> none just that i have to copy it for every function that wants to use stuff inside handle *
2019-07-06T09:29:07 < dongs> not a big deal yeah
2019-07-06T09:29:11 < dongs> no, compiler is fine wiht it
2019-07-06T09:29:23 < antto> well, it's C
2019-07-06T09:29:30 < antto> you could write a macro for it
2019-07-06T09:29:36 < dongs> like i said the opensores solution is to forward declare in public header and use struct nigger_t *handle
2019-07-06T09:29:36 < antto> >:)
2019-07-06T09:29:48 < dongs> but i hate writing struct foo even more than casting void *
2019-07-06T09:34:15 < antto> i love encapsulation
2019-07-06T09:34:45 < dongs> https://github.com/libusb/libusb/issues/331
2019-07-06T09:34:46  * antto encapsulates dongs' hate neatly into a class, with private access
2019-07-06T09:34:49 < dongs> jesus what a fucking loser
2019-07-06T09:34:54 < dongs> > I'm using GOLANG with an interface layer to native libusb on Centos7.
2019-07-06T09:34:57 < dongs> stopped reading there
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2019-07-06T09:36:15 < antto> dafuq is golang
2019-07-06T09:36:21 < dongs> retarded faggot language
2019-07-06T09:36:22 < dongs> what else
2019-07-06T09:36:28 < dongs> just like python/ruby/rust/etc
2019-07-06T09:36:32 < dongs> shit that shouldnt exist
2019-07-06T09:36:34 < antto> don't tell me it's some slow-a$$ interpreted language
2019-07-06T09:36:40 < dongs> dont know/dont care
2019-07-06T09:36:44 < dongs> its not C
2019-07-06T09:36:46 < dongs> which is all that matters
2019-07-06T09:37:16 < antto> nor C++
2019-07-06T09:37:22 < antto> so yeah
2019-07-06T09:37:39 < dongs> the reason i came across this shit is im looking how to differentiate several devices connected with same vid/pid with this libusb trash
2019-07-06T09:37:40 < antto> smells like "i've chosen a slow language and now i'm stuck, halp"
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2019-07-06T09:39:15 < dongs> looks like i have t o enumerate and count
2019-07-06T09:39:16 < dongs> kk
2019-07-06T09:43:13 < dongs> hmm what
2019-07-06T09:43:18 < dongs> apparently ican typedef a blank strcut too
2019-07-06T09:43:48 < antto> golang is a compiled language similar to C
2019-07-06T09:43:53 < antto> but it's made by google
2019-07-06T09:44:03 < antto> ..that's a big "but"
2019-07-06T09:44:25 < antto> it has garbage collection
2019-07-06T09:44:30 < antto> so.. it's garbage >:)
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2019-07-06T10:03:50 < dongs> hmm it worked
2019-07-06T10:04:03 < dongs> struct session_t; typedef struct session_t session_t;
2019-07-06T10:04:06 < dongs>  in public header
2019-07-06T10:04:31 < dongs> keeps it opaque and i can define and fill it with shit inside the implementation file
2019-07-06T10:04:54 < dongs> and still call stuff(session_t *session
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2019-07-06T14:20:27 < Mangy_Dog> Need help, display circuit isnt working, need help troubleshooting it as ive run out of ideas.... https://imgur.com/gallery/BS2gGuU
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2019-07-06T15:36:45 < invzim> anyone done stm32 as usb host with two connected devices?
2019-07-06T15:37:04 < invzim> the doc is confusing to say the least
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2019-07-06T15:49:30 < Steffanx> why is jly awake?
2019-07-06T15:52:29 < qyx> invzim: using a hub?
2019-07-06T15:57:28 < invzim> qyx: nope
2019-07-06T15:57:48 < invzim> afaik, 'hub class' is not supported by cubemx 
2019-07-06T16:00:34 < qyx> two host ports then?
2019-07-06T16:00:40 < qyx> is there such stm32?
2019-07-06T16:03:40 < invzim> using stm32f722
2019-07-06T16:03:48 < invzim> there are parts with 2 usb cores
2019-07-06T16:04:08 < invzim> but some meh with external transceivers, 'otg' and other stuff I'm not intimate with
2019-07-06T16:34:14 < zyp> all parts with two cores have two internal transceivers
2019-07-06T16:34:22 < zyp> if all you need is FS capability
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2019-07-06T16:34:35 < zyp> OTG refers to the ability to change between host and device roles
2019-07-06T16:35:18 < qyx> is there any chance of reasonably getting sata on stm32? or just fukit and use some cortex-a
2019-07-06T16:35:52 < qyx> (I am asking because usb-sata might be an option)
2019-07-06T16:36:55 < zyp> usb-sata is just mass storage
2019-07-06T16:37:26 < zyp> I mean, both mass storage and sata are just transports for SCSI commands anyway
2019-07-06T16:44:14 < qyx> I know but idk how much effort is to implement usb MS class on the stm
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2019-07-06T16:50:30 < zyp> MSC BBB is just a pair of bulk pipes that you send SCSI commands over in some thin wrappers
2019-07-06T16:51:04 < zyp> I've done MSC device before, doing MSC host is probably around a comparable complexity
2019-07-06T17:09:14 < dongs> hosted by zyp
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2019-07-06T17:24:53 < Cracki> qyx, sata/pata bridge, then speak pata?
2019-07-06T17:25:01 < Cracki> would spare you the usb stack
2019-07-06T17:25:13 < Cracki> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/118537/interfacing-with-sata-in-embedded-systems
2019-07-06T17:28:11 < zyp> sounds like more work
2019-07-06T17:33:46 < englishman> just put a rasgepberripi
2019-07-06T17:33:49 < englishman> it's what you want to do
2019-07-06T17:34:02 < englishman> probably costs less than f7
2019-07-06T17:34:11 < qyx> maybe some mediatek iot thing with pci-e
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2019-07-06T17:34:28 < qyx> they are available in qfn iirc
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2019-07-06T17:54:46 < Cracki> cortex a sounds like less effort
2019-07-06T17:55:46 < Cracki> less effort than inserting pcie or USB into the problem
2019-07-06T17:56:25 < Cracki> http://www.bigboardlist.com/
2019-07-06T17:56:51 < Cracki> bananapi has actual sata ports. cubieboard apparently too.
2019-07-06T18:00:56 < zyp> why do you want sata anyway?
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2019-07-06T18:27:41 < karlp> people go "omg must use a shitty sbc as my high performance nas, usb isn't ok! must hve native sata!"
2019-07-06T18:27:52 < karlp> even though if they gave a shit about performance they woulnd't be dicking around like that.
2019-07-06T18:29:11 < karlp> is UAS still scsi but with different pipes than the MSC BBB?
2019-07-06T18:32:26 < zyp> yes
2019-07-06T18:32:59 < karlp> usb attached scsi, duh :)
2019-07-06T18:32:59 < zyp> IIRC BBB can only have one command inflight at a time, UAS can have multiple
2019-07-06T18:33:07 < zyp> being the major difference
2019-07-06T18:33:18 < karlp> whcih will definitely fix performance .)
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2019-07-06T18:58:21 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/jpMHy6s.png
2019-07-06T18:59:03 < bitmask> oops wrong link
2019-07-06T18:59:34 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/T9VLrLz.png
2019-07-06T18:59:35 < bitmask> updated
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2019-07-06T19:22:40 < englishman> zyp: is android carshit only when you plug via usb?
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2019-07-06T19:36:18 < zyp> yes
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2019-07-06T20:11:45 < englishman> ah that's why it doesn't work
2019-07-06T20:23:18 < jadew> if I sell something to a country outside the EU, do I have to put some customs info on the package?
2019-07-06T20:23:57 < Thorn> CN22
2019-07-06T20:24:29 < jadew> hmm
2019-07-06T20:25:03 < jadew> I should have gotten a wider label printer
2019-07-06T20:27:36 < jadew> I see it can be included with the shipping label and it doesn't have to have that exact format
2019-07-06T20:27:47 < jadew> so maybe I can still print it within 62mm
2019-07-06T20:29:18 < jadew> I don't think I can...
2019-07-06T20:29:21 < jadew> damn it
2019-07-06T20:43:54 < bitmask> hadoooken
2019-07-06T20:44:16 < bitmask> jadew, you see the update? shows how it works :/
2019-07-06T20:44:22 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/T9VLrLz.png
2019-07-06T20:44:31 < specing> jadew: scale it down?
2019-07-06T20:47:27 < jadew> bitmask, nice
2019-07-06T20:47:32 < jadew> you modeled those?
2019-07-06T20:47:39 < jadew> specing, heh
2019-07-06T20:47:52 < jadew> I'll just print it on regular paper and cover it with scotch tape
2019-07-06T20:48:43 < friendofafriend> Oh golly, that won't come off on the fuser?
2019-07-06T20:48:49 < R2COM> dongs can you please remind me that jew solderpaste which is good (the one made in usa)
2019-07-06T20:48:52 < bitmask> not the calipers (just changed the color to match mine :P ) and not the screwdriver bits or the alligator clips or the thumb screws (thank you gradcad), but I modeled the gooseneck :P
2019-07-06T20:49:51 < jadew> friendofafriend, what fuser?
2019-07-06T20:52:19 < friendofafriend> jadew: Oh, it's ink.  Sorry, was confused.
2019-07-06T20:53:28 < jadew> R2COM, loctite GC 10
2019-07-06T20:54:07 < jadew> it's what I also use and it's indeed good
2019-07-06T20:55:26 < jadew> actually I don't know if dongs uses that, but it's a well known solder paste
2019-07-06T21:17:42 < R2COM> fuck i wish st made some fucking eval board where they just breakout ALL pins on headers
2019-07-06T21:18:57 < R2COM> jadew thanks
2019-07-06T21:25:51 < jadew> R2COM, np
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2019-07-06T21:44:39 < R2COM> jadew also by any chance you remember how those quick contact headers called? like those where to program shit you just touch to PCB, and on PCB you just make the footprint for those spring loaded headers? what was name of that shit
2019-07-06T21:44:53 < jadew> tag connect?
2019-07-06T21:44:58 < jadew> or poggo pins?
2019-07-06T21:45:25 < jadew> you're probably thinking about tag connect
2019-07-06T21:45:52 < jadew> if it's just about touching, then it's probably something with pogo pins
2019-07-06T21:47:37 < R2COM> oh yea
2019-07-06T21:47:40 < R2COM> are they same?
2019-07-06T21:47:51 < R2COM> tag connect attaches permanently?
2019-07-06T21:48:17 < jadew> yeah, tag connect can stay there by itself
2019-07-06T21:48:25 < jadew> requires holes
2019-07-06T21:48:43 < jadew> pogo pins could be used with holes, or just with test pads
2019-07-06T21:48:49 < englishman> gc10 is the fuckin best
2019-07-06T21:48:55 < englishman> anyone need 600g?
2019-07-06T21:49:55 < jadew> got one jar too many?
2019-07-06T21:50:48 < Thorn> https://divernet.com/2019/07/06/fish-bombing-blamed-as-three-divers-die/
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2019-07-06T21:55:25 < englishman> ouch
2019-07-06T21:58:44 < Cracki> R2COM, aliex has "bare" breakouts. tagconnect is pogopins with particular layout and some guide pins that are just solid metal
2019-07-06T21:59:28 < Cracki> >sea gypsies
2019-07-06T22:03:37 < jadew> R2COM, http://188.27.5.74/stuff/20181002_161330.jpg
2019-07-06T22:03:53 < jadew> that's my home made thingie
2019-07-06T22:04:47 < Cracki> pogo pins are a few cents a piece on aliex and they have all kinds
2019-07-06T22:05:22 < Cracki> jadew, are those throughholes or vias, or flat pads?
2019-07-06T22:06:35 < jadew> Cracki, that's a through hole footprint for a standard header, with 1.27 mm pitch
2019-07-06T22:06:48 < Cracki> ic
2019-07-06T22:06:54 < jadew> so if I want to, I can mount a regular header there
2019-07-06T22:06:59 < Cracki> what diameter heads do the pins have?
2019-07-06T22:07:17 < jadew> for example, if I find myself keeping the programmer connected a lot, while moving the DUT
2019-07-06T22:07:35 < jadew> not sure
2019-07-06T22:07:38 < jadew> let me measure one
2019-07-06T22:08:03 < Cracki> looks def. less than 1mm, maybe 0.6-0.8?
2019-07-06T22:08:40 < jadew> .6
2019-07-06T22:09:18 < Cracki> that pcb part of the plug, is that standard 1.6mm? looks so thick
2019-07-06T22:09:20 < Cracki> thx
2019-07-06T22:10:09 < Cracki> R2COM, here's your bare breakout for a random H7 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038029225.html
2019-07-06T22:10:13 < jadew> Cracki, yeah
2019-07-06T22:10:42 < jadew> looks thick because the DUT's PCB is thinner
2019-07-06T22:10:48 < R2COM> but that is just your custom made one
2019-07-06T22:10:53 < R2COM> its not pogo pin or tag connect
2019-07-06T22:11:02 < jadew> R2COM, no, but it's using pogo pins
2019-07-06T22:11:08 < Cracki> boss is gonna go for a test rig, or at least a better programming rig than tag connect (target needs supply) so I get to throw pogo pins at him
2019-07-06T22:11:24 < jadew> R2COM, I can use it either by pushing on a board, or by sticking them in
2019-07-06T22:11:28 < jadew> depends on the footprint on the PCB
2019-07-06T22:11:33 < jadew> anyway, dinner time
2019-07-06T22:11:35 < jadew> ttyl
2019-07-06T22:15:33 < Cracki> look for "spring probe programming" on aliex for some readymade plugs, or a clamp-type thingy: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33000103853.html
2019-07-06T22:16:27 < Cracki> yes, that's one big spring in the lever and one small spring per pin, inside each pin
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2019-07-06T22:39:54 < R2COM> so segger now calls its products flasher?
2019-07-06T22:39:56 < R2COM> Flasher?
2019-07-06T22:40:11 < R2COM> was there some major hardware update or something or wat
2019-07-06T22:41:17 < Steffann> didnt have segger that for a long time?
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2019-07-06T23:03:43 < Cracki> flasher might just flash...?
2019-07-06T23:04:14 < Cracki> >Once set up, Flasher can be controlled without the use of PC program
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2019-07-06T23:20:23 < jadew> not sure how I managed to get stuck with a huge todo list for what remains of today (and I'm super tired) and tomorrow
2019-07-06T23:20:48 < jadew> and it has to be done
2019-07-06T23:21:07 < Cracki> schedule things by earliest-deadline-first
2019-07-06T23:21:32 < jadew> they all have the same deadline: Monday
2019-07-06T23:24:05 < jadew> I need some music to get this going
2019-07-06T23:24:18 < Cracki> Marschmusik
2019-07-06T23:26:16 < Cracki> https://youtu.be/7nKI-KJCLHw?t=252
2019-07-06T23:27:02 < jadew> lol
2019-07-06T23:27:07 < jadew> sounds appropriate
2019-07-06T23:27:48 < jadew> but I'll go with My Mix, which should give me less anxiety
2019-07-06T23:27:54 < Cracki> heh
2019-07-06T23:29:41 < jadew> some weird combination there tbh
2019-07-06T23:29:45 < Cracki> all those contemporary genres converge towards anemic sedated pop music
2019-07-06T23:29:58 < Cracki> "hardstyle", nothing hard about it anymore
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--- Day changed Sun Jul 07 2019
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2019-07-07T00:16:21 < qyx> R2COM: flasher is for provisioning in production
2019-07-07T00:16:41 < qyx> can be controlled by simple industrial gpio for example
2019-07-07T00:16:42 < qyx> iirc
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2019-07-07T00:47:12 < Thorn> what kind of magic is this https://www.wolfspeed.com/media/downloads/169/C2M0160120D.pdf
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2019-07-07T00:51:08 < Thorn> https://books.google.ru/books/about/Art_of_Electronics_The_X_Chapters.html?id=AcVxxQEACAAJ&source=kp_book_description&redir_esc=y
2019-07-07T00:51:11 < Thorn> >Jan 31, 2020 lol
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2019-07-07T00:55:11 < Cracki> Silicon Carbide wew
2019-07-07T00:55:34 < mawk> I'm surprised it goes into a standard package
2019-07-07T00:55:43 < mawk> I would've expected the leads to be further apart
2019-07-07T00:57:34 < mawk> leads are 5.44mm apartr
2019-07-07T00:58:14 < Thorn> yeah I've recently done a 230V circuit with a dpak triac and the leads were uncomfortably close lol
2019-07-07T00:58:26 < Cracki> why woudl they keep a book from release for 6 months? is it not done yet or what
2019-07-07T00:58:29 < Thorn> and this is 120V
2019-07-07T00:58:42 < Thorn> 1200
2019-07-07T00:59:11 < Cracki> prolly needs drowning in epoxy to prevent bad things
2019-07-07T00:59:15 < mawk> yeah maybe not corrected Cracki 
2019-07-07T00:59:23 < mawk> like it needs review by some peers to spot mistakes and stuff
2019-07-07T00:59:27 < Cracki> hm
2019-07-07T00:59:56 < mawk> I've found some in my edition of that series of book
2019-07-07T01:00:16 < mawk> but I don't know if the translator made them or if they're original mistakes
2019-07-07T01:02:09 < R2COM> cc6uaZcb.s(333): error :  immediate value out of range
2019-07-07T01:02:09 < R2COM> ^
2019-07-07T01:02:23 < R2COM> not sure why i get something like this on blank project build on f0
2019-07-07T01:02:44 < Cracki> that assembly wasn't written for f0?
2019-07-07T01:02:46 < mawk> sounds like cpu mismatch
2019-07-07T01:03:02 < Cracki> f0 is m0, lacks some bit fiddling and other instructions
2019-07-07T01:04:02 < Cracki> https://community.arm.com/cfs-file/__key/telligent-evolution-components-attachments/01-2142-00-00-00-00-52-96/White-Paper-_2D00_-Cortex_2D00_M-for-Beginners-_2D00_-2016-_2800_final-v3_2900_.pdf
2019-07-07T01:04:07 < mawk> but on any 32-bit ARM version I'd expect immediates to have the same size
2019-07-07T01:04:10 < Cracki> this has tables comparing features
2019-07-07T01:04:13 < mawk> so it's maybe something deeper
2019-07-07T01:04:30 < mawk> or maybe it's just instruction taking immediate of a different size, dunno
2019-07-07T01:04:31 < Cracki> immediate got computed by something?
2019-07-07T01:04:54 < mawk> immediate is constant
2019-07-07T01:05:28 < Cracki> >The richer instruction enhanced the performance in a number of ways; for example, the 32-bit Thumb instructions provide larger range of immediate data values, branch offset and immediate offset for data memory accesses
2019-07-07T01:05:35 < Cracki> sure but it's assembly
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2019-07-07T01:05:51 < Cracki> I'm not writing assembly that much but isn't there a macro preprocessor too?
2019-07-07T01:05:59 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-07T01:06:04 < mawk> the same preprocessor as for C/C++
2019-07-07T01:06:28 < mawk> you can #include and everything, pretty convenient
2019-07-07T01:06:46 < mawk> it also has its own macro system which is oddly way better than the C preprocessor system, I mean you have for loop, if, recursive macros, etc
2019-07-07T01:07:15 < R2COM> oh
2019-07-07T01:07:33 < R2COM> i can remove that error if i disable fast semihosting...
2019-07-07T01:07:35 < R2COM> hmm
2019-07-07T01:07:38 < Cracki> wat
2019-07-07T01:09:23 < R2COM> with non-fast semihosting its ok
2019-07-07T01:09:33 < R2COM> i guess it had to do with that specific feature for f0...
2019-07-07T01:27:28 < R2COM> ok i got it working
2019-07-07T01:50:51 < dongs> < R2COM> cc6uaZcb.s(333): error :  immediate value out of range
2019-07-07T01:50:54 < dongs> what garbage produced this
2019-07-07T01:51:07 < dongs> why arent you using free keil for STM32F0
2019-07-07T01:51:18 < dongs> which is 100000x better than any opensores aids
2019-07-07T01:51:44 < dongs> it even compiles zyp's USB C++ 9000 code
2019-07-07T01:58:15 < Thorn> will it compile my usb c++ code
2019-07-07T01:58:27 < Thorn> or sx1276 c++ code
2019-07-07T01:58:40 < Thorn> or radio MAC c++ code
2019-07-07T01:59:06 < dongs> try it? why not
2019-07-07T01:59:14 < dongs> how retarded is your C++?
2019-07-07T01:59:21 < dongs> does it use tons of dumb gccisms
2019-07-07T01:59:36 < Thorn> it is using standard c++17
2019-07-07T01:59:43 < dongs> "standard"
2019-07-07T01:59:53 < dongs> its not a standard if only gcc supports it
2019-07-07T01:59:54 < Thorn> yessir standard
2019-07-07T02:00:09 < dongs> https://developer.arm.com/docs/100067/latest/Armclang-command-line-options/-std
2019-07-07T02:00:11 < dongs> looks like it does
2019-07-07T02:00:12 < Thorn> https://isocpp.org/std/the-standard
2019-07-07T02:00:25 < dongs> gnu++17 [COMMUNITY]
2019-07-07T02:00:26 < dongs> C++ as defined by the 2017 C++ standard, with additional GNU extensions.
2019-07-07T02:00:35 < dongs> "gnu++17"
2019-07-07T02:01:04 < dongs> c++17 [COMMUNITY]
2019-07-07T02:01:04 < dongs> C++ as defined by the 2017 C++ standard.
2019-07-07T02:01:09 < dongs> oh, allright
2019-07-07T02:01:12 < dongs> there's a non-gccism version
2019-07-07T02:01:22 < dongs> i haev noi dea wat community means, prolly untested?
2019-07-07T02:02:32 < Cracki> it means llvm features _they_ don't make sure are there
2019-07-07T02:02:43 < Cracki> arm compiler 6 is based on llvm
2019-07-07T02:02:51 < dongs> yeah unfortunately
2019-07-07T02:03:30 < Cracki> is there any way to download keil mdk without entering all that bullshit in that form?
2019-07-07T02:03:38 < dongs> yeah just enter random bullshit in there
2019-07-07T02:03:44 < dongs> and any random gmail
2019-07-07T02:03:45 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-07-07T02:03:55 < dongs> they don't email you links or anything so its just spam
2019-07-07T02:04:08 < Cracki> I found a 526 from late 2018. let's see if the thing can update itself
2019-07-07T02:04:30 < dongs> 528 is latest
2019-07-07T02:04:34 < dongs> there's never been a self-updater.
2019-07-07T02:04:35 < Cracki> ikr
2019-07-07T02:04:38 < Cracki> lol
2019-07-07T02:04:44 < dongs> why would there be>?
2019-07-07T02:04:49 < Cracki> at least the gui looks halfway up to date
2019-07-07T02:05:06 < mawk> what do you have against llvm ?
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2019-07-07T02:05:43 < dongs> but yeah these days especially in non-trivial/large-ish projects i will use keil to compile and then alt-tab over to ozone for debugging/run testing
2019-07-07T02:06:11 < Thorn> the compiler designer telegram channel hates llvm with passion. apparently they buried themselves under piles of OO design
2019-07-07T02:06:22 < mawk> clang usually supports gcc features for C and C++ anyway
2019-07-07T02:06:29 < mawk> if you use light gccisms you should be fine
2019-07-07T02:06:57 < Cracki> oh oh pee
2019-07-07T02:07:09 < Cracki> I would have thought they'd go the functional road
2019-07-07T02:07:19 < mawk> I coded for llvm as contractor Thorn 
2019-07-07T02:07:22 < mawk> I can somwhat confirm this lol
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2019-07-07T02:07:35 < mawk> if only they would get their OO design consistant and well documented
2019-07-07T02:07:42 < mawk> but no, it breaks over minor version bumps
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2019-07-07T02:07:46 < mawk> plus broken doxygen
2019-07-07T02:07:59 < R2COM> dongs no im using visualGDB it works now all good
2019-07-07T02:08:07 < R2COM> its not free i payed liek $200 or something
2019-07-07T02:08:26 < dongs> ah right
2019-07-07T02:08:30 < dongs> i keep meaning to try that
2019-07-07T02:08:36 < R2COM> it actually works
2019-07-07T02:08:41 < dongs> yes, i dont doubt it
2019-07-07T02:08:50 < R2COM> hey dongs, which "Flasher" from segger should i buy
2019-07-07T02:08:52 < dongs> my only concern is that its fucking gdb underneath
2019-07-07T02:09:02 < dongs> for production programing?
2019-07-07T02:09:07 < dongs> prolly none, just make your own jigs
2019-07-07T02:09:32 < R2COM> for super pro programming
2019-07-07T02:09:38 < R2COM> not production
2019-07-07T02:09:42 < mawk> lol
2019-07-07T02:09:52 < Cracki> just programming, no debugging? are you sure you need that?
2019-07-07T02:09:59 < dongs> i dont think its wroth it
2019-07-07T02:10:02 < R2COM> (i assume production i can ask shipper to get my HEX file preloaded? you ever done that btw?)
2019-07-07T02:10:07 < dongs> i made my own thing with oled and STM32 and SPI flash on it
2019-07-07T02:10:13 < dongs> that speaks Stm32 uart boot protocol
2019-07-07T02:10:20 < dongs> and I can just flash random devices with it
2019-07-07T02:10:26 < Cracki> shipper doesn't program chips, ST would do that
2019-07-07T02:10:44 < dongs> we're using for production, a bunch of them labeled with wahtever firmware thats on them
2019-07-07T02:10:52 < R2COM> but you can flash random devices with ST's eval board with stlink disconnected as well, no?
2019-07-07T02:10:58 < Cracki> sure
2019-07-07T02:11:14 < dongs> flashing over jtag is pretty silly for production
2019-07-07T02:11:16 < dongs> no real reason to
2019-07-07T02:11:16 < R2COM> i mean every eval bnoard has that f103
2019-07-07T02:11:25 < Cracki> anything that does SWD, or you speak that uart (what dongs does)
2019-07-07T02:11:27 < dongs> uart bootloader works fine
2019-07-07T02:11:29 < R2COM> you flash with SWD?
2019-07-07T02:11:31 < dongs> no
2019-07-07T02:11:34 < R2COM> why not SWD?
2019-07-07T02:11:38 < dongs> production flash = uart bl
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2019-07-07T02:11:50 < dongs> because its way easier to support uart protocol than write my own swd
2019-07-07T02:11:55 < Cracki> heh
2019-07-07T02:12:13 < Cracki> true, you just have this dongle and need no computer behind it
2019-07-07T02:12:16 < R2COM> i mean why not use ST's swd whatever
2019-07-07T02:12:26 < R2COM> in other words, why not use stlink for production
2019-07-07T02:12:27 < dongs> < Cracki> true, you just have this dongle and need no computer behind it
2019-07-07T02:12:29 < dongs> ^ because this
2019-07-07T02:12:30 < mawk> you can have your own dongle talk swd too tho
2019-07-07T02:12:36 < mawk> exactly what stlink does
2019-07-07T02:12:37 < dongs> i could yes but i am lazy
2019-07-07T02:12:51 < R2COM> ahhh
2019-07-07T02:12:54 < R2COM> locality right
2019-07-07T02:13:13 < mawk> using stlink commanded by something else could maybe make sense
2019-07-07T02:13:18 < R2COM> so you can ship that "dongle" to a faggot who assembles yuour PCBs and he doesnt need to connect PC or anything, just touch and flash?
2019-07-07T02:13:19 < mawk> the stlink protocol is high level, easy to command like an uart
2019-07-07T02:13:27 < Laurenceb> https://ibb.co/XF2L11P
2019-07-07T02:13:30 < mawk> but it's one component more than just the uart bl which is anyway built in your chip
2019-07-07T02:13:42 < dongs> R2COM: right, except i'm the faggot that assembles but yeah, basically
2019-07-07T02:15:15 < R2COM> so block diagram of that dongle is:  FLASH---->spi------>STM32Fxxx----->uart--------->external STM32 to be programmed
2019-07-07T02:15:15 < R2COM> ?
2019-07-07T02:15:44 < mawk> your stm32 has plenty internal flash for storing the program to be flashed no ?
2019-07-07T02:16:06 < R2COM> is my block diagram understanding correct?
2019-07-07T02:16:53 < mawk> yes
2019-07-07T02:17:00 < dongs> i have a 2meg spi flash on ther for storing images but yeah
2019-07-07T02:17:01 < mawk> between dongle and external stm32 you have uart
2019-07-07T02:17:37 < dongs> https://imgur.com/a/b0xmNTn im pretty sure ive posted that in hre before
2019-07-07T02:17:58 < dongs> i do usb DFU to update images on the SPI flash
2019-07-07T02:18:01 < aandrew> shitty flasher v1.1
2019-07-07T02:18:07 < aandrew> please tell me that's on your tindie store
2019-07-07T02:18:20 < dongs> then i just power it up and press start to flash
2019-07-07T02:18:24 < aandrew> what's the back of it look like
2019-07-07T02:18:29 < dongs> its in the album
2019-07-07T02:18:32 < aandrew> oh, just scroll down
2019-07-07T02:18:33 < aandrew> haha
2019-07-07T02:18:33 < dongs> scroll down nigga
2019-07-07T02:18:54 < R2COM> so external stm32 inside final product is programmed through UART bootloader?
2019-07-07T02:18:55 < Cracki> cute
2019-07-07T02:18:57 < dongs> just stm, flash, target switch pfet
2019-07-07T02:19:31 < mawk> yes R2COM , and that bootloader is preloaded on all stm32
2019-07-07T02:19:31 < aandrew> haha https://imgur.com/gallery/xpUssJe
2019-07-07T02:19:42 < mawk> it doesn't have to be uart R2COM tho, some stm32 cores have it over spi, usb, whatever
2019-07-07T02:19:48 < R2COM> mawk ok now it makes sense
2019-07-07T02:20:08 < dongs> you can program over uart and lock it up
2019-07-07T02:20:16 < dongs> to prevent swd/readout/whatever
2019-07-07T02:20:25 < R2COM> through other protocols you cant lock?
2019-07-07T02:20:30 < dongs> sure you can
2019-07-07T02:20:33 < R2COM> ok
2019-07-07T02:20:38 < dongs> but i am too lazy to read how
2019-07-07T02:20:39 < mawk> you can even lock from your own firmware on first start or whatever
2019-07-07T02:20:41 < R2COM> uart will just need 2 pins though
2019-07-07T02:20:50 < mawk> locking is just a matter of writing to some bits in eeprom
2019-07-07T02:20:54 < mawk> you can do it anytime
2019-07-07T02:21:09 < mawk> yeah plus ground
2019-07-07T02:21:42 < R2COM> so is it shared by ST? the protocol needed to be communicated to transfer data to target device ?
2019-07-07T02:22:06 < dongs> of course?
2019-07-07T02:22:07 < mawk> yes
2019-07-07T02:22:07 < dongs> its in the pdf
2019-07-07T02:22:10 < R2COM> i found document
2019-07-07T02:22:17 < Cracki> forget ground https://i.redd.it/zjo53tgs8eh01.jpg
2019-07-07T02:22:20 < dongs> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/51/5f/03/1e/bd/9b/45/be/CD00264342.pdf/files/CD00264342.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00264342.pdf
2019-07-07T02:22:21 < R2COM> but i thought they'd just give out example code
2019-07-07T02:22:26 < R2COM> thats what i found
2019-07-07T02:22:43 < dongs> well why need example code when there's tons of shit already doing it
2019-07-07T02:22:48 < dongs> i mean i literally just built stm32flash for stm32
2019-07-07T02:22:53 < dongs> by writing a new serial layer
2019-07-07T02:23:04 < dongs> https://sourceforge.net/p/stm32flash/wiki/Home/
2019-07-07T02:23:05 < dongs> this shit
2019-07-07T02:23:13 < mawk> you don't even need example code you can do it in 10 lines of python from datasheet R2COM 
2019-07-07T02:23:16 < mawk> approximately
2019-07-07T02:23:20 < mawk> it's simple
2019-07-07T02:23:53 < Cracki> > Geoffrey McRae, Tormod Volden
2019-07-07T02:24:19 < R2COM> k
2019-07-07T02:25:30 < R2COM> okk all makes sense now
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2019-07-07T03:44:10 < dongs> since fucking when does gcc not fuckign accept #include "cocks\dongs.h"
2019-07-07T03:44:36 -!- beanana is now known as banana
2019-07-07T03:44:43 < mawk> dongs: use /
2019-07-07T03:44:56 < Thorn> dongs: it's not legal c/c++
2019-07-07T03:44:57 < mawk> \\ is windows level shit
2019-07-07T03:45:10 < mawk> I mean \ is windows stuff
2019-07-07T03:45:13 < Thorn> if your compiler accept it then it's violating the standard
2019-07-07T03:45:17 < mawk> and if you absolutely want \ for no reason you use \\
2019-07-07T03:45:22 < Thorn> *accepts
2019-07-07T03:47:13 < dongs> Thorn, i've always used \ with msvc
2019-07-07T03:47:16 < dongs> for decades
2019-07-07T03:47:33 < Thorn> and you're complaining about gccisms lol
2019-07-07T03:48:21 < mawk> \ is an escape character
2019-07-07T03:48:26 < mawk> use \\ or use / like anyone else
2019-07-07T03:52:40 < dongs> is there a non-retarded lunix equivalent of CreatePIpe
2019-07-07T03:52:55 < dongs> man i hate writing portable code
2019-07-07T03:53:42 < mawk> yes, pipe
2019-07-07T03:53:53 < mawk> there are only 1 way to do things on linux usually
2019-07-07T03:55:22 < mawk> int pipefd[2]; pipe(pipefd);
2019-07-07T03:55:34 < mawk> pipefd[0] is the read end, pipefd[1] is the write end
2019-07-07T03:55:51 < dongs> how do i set max pipe size
2019-07-07T03:56:44 < dongs> nSize
2019-07-07T03:56:45 < dongs> The size of the buffer for the pipe, in bytes. The size is only a suggestion; the system uses the value to calculate an appropriate buffering mechanism. If this parameter is zero, the system uses the default buffer size.
2019-07-07T03:56:46 < mawk> let me search
2019-07-07T03:56:51 < mawk> but why do you want to do that ?
2019-07-07T03:56:59 < dongs> so i have a known buffer size?
2019-07-07T03:57:06 < dongs> on windows i create ~2meg buffer
2019-07-07T03:57:16 < dongs> and I can get how full it is beacuse input and pulling are at different rates
2019-07-07T03:57:30 < mawk> the buffer size is known on linux
2019-07-07T03:57:36 < mawk> it's PIPE_BUF
2019-07-07T03:57:40 < mawk> constant defined in limits.h
2019-07-07T03:57:42 < mawk> but you can raise it sure
2019-07-07T03:57:44 < mawk> let me search
2019-07-07T03:58:00 < dongs> (On Linux,
2019-07-07T03:58:01 < dongs>        PIPE_BUF is 4096 bytes.) 
2019-07-07T03:58:03 < dongs> jesus fuck what
2019-07-07T03:58:05 < mawk> lol
2019-07-07T03:58:07 < dongs> i need like 2 megs
2019-07-07T03:58:11 < mawk> maybe you don't want a pipe
2019-07-07T03:58:22 < dongs> i dont want to write my own fucking fifo
2019-07-07T03:58:37 < mawk> yeah pipe is just a dumb file descriptor, pipe is just a name
2019-07-07T03:58:48 < mawk> if you use a socket pair it's the same thing and unlimited buffer
2019-07-07T03:59:02 < dongs> but this works on windows just fine
2019-07-07T03:59:03 < mawk> but you can use pipe with 2 MiB buffer too
2019-07-07T03:59:08 < mawk> yes it works on linux too
2019-07-07T03:59:15 < mawk> I'm just pointing a maybe better solution with unlimited buffer
2019-07-07T03:59:55 < mawk> it's fcntl F_SETPIPE_SZ to set size of a pipe
2019-07-07T04:00:08 < mawk> it can't be greater than the value specified in /proc/sys/fs/pipe-max-size if you're not root
2019-07-07T04:00:25 < dongs> its only 1meg there
2019-07-07T04:00:26 < dongs> wow.
2019-07-07T04:00:28 < dongs> what fucking failure
2019-07-07T04:00:47 < mawk> what
2019-07-07T04:00:49 < mawk> you can change it
2019-07-07T04:00:57 < dongs> yeah but i shouldnt have to
2019-07-07T04:01:01 < dongs> i mean
2019-07-07T04:01:06 < dongs> im trying to port existing working code
2019-07-07T04:01:14 < dongs> on windows i just do CreatePipe (10megs) and done
2019-07-07T04:01:43 < mawk> you can use a socketpair for big buffers
2019-07-07T04:01:48 < mawk> in stream (TCP like) mode
2019-07-07T04:02:00 < dongs> then i can write up to 10 and i even have PeekNamedPipe to determine how full it is
2019-07-07T04:02:54 < mawk> but anyway the pipe buffer is a maximum size but that doesn't mean further writes will fail
2019-07-07T04:03:01 < mawk> it will just halt the writer until the consumer reads some
2019-07-07T04:03:11 < dongs> yeah, that is definitely not acceptable
2019-07-07T04:04:46 < mawk> ok so either raise the limit in /etc/sysctl.conf for instance, or become root, or don't use a pipe but a socket pair
2019-07-07T04:05:01 < mawk> to peek how full the pipe is on linux you do ioctl(fd, FIONREAD, &nbytes);
2019-07-07T04:06:09 < dongs> so root will have no limit?
2019-07-07T04:06:15 < mawk> yes
2019-07-07T04:06:20 < mawk> indeed
2019-07-07T04:09:12 < dongs> is fd on lunix really int
2019-07-07T04:09:15 < dongs> even for 64butt build>
2019-07-07T04:09:22 < mawk> yes
2019-07-07T04:09:29 < mawk> fd is local to a process
2019-07-07T04:09:30 < dongs> gay
2019-07-07T04:09:50 < mawk> it's not a handle like on windows which can be given to other processes like that
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2019-07-07T04:09:57 < mawk> it's just an index starting with 0, 1, 2, 3, ...
2019-07-07T04:10:44 < mawk> if a single process opens 4.3 billion files then yes there will be a problem
2019-07-07T04:10:49 < mawk> but that should never happen lol
2019-07-07T04:11:02 < Thorn> there was a way to pass FDs to another process iirc
2019-07-07T04:11:31 < mawk> yes
2019-07-07T04:11:37 < mawk> using a unix socket with SCM_RIGHTS
2019-07-07T04:11:40 < mawk> it's pretty cool
2019-07-07T04:11:51 < Thorn> https://gist.github.com/nazgee/2396992
2019-07-07T04:12:24 < Thorn> l00nix system level code looks MUCH better than weendow$
2019-07-07T04:12:54 < Thorn> even from a purely visual perspective lol
2019-07-07T04:13:08 < mawk> yeah windows took the API-like route
2019-07-07T04:13:18 < mawk> no syscalls, just opaque libraries withb 4380948300943809438049384309 different functions
2019-07-07T04:14:29 < mawk> using the same technique Thorn you can also validate the identity of the destinary of a socket
2019-07-07T04:14:37 < mawk> with SCM_CREDENTIALS
2019-07-07T04:14:47 < mawk> so that you can authenticate that the person is root or a specific user
2019-07-07T04:17:51 < dongs> it's fcntl F_SETPIPE_SZ to set size of a pipe so what FD do i pass to it, read or write? or both
2019-07-07T04:18:16 < mawk> either
2019-07-07T04:18:23 < mawk> just one, the one you want
2019-07-07T04:18:29 < dongs> errr??
2019-07-07T04:18:32 < mawk> what
2019-07-07T04:18:39 < mawk> both fd are both ends of a single pipe
2019-07-07T04:18:51 < mawk> so you can do the fcntl on the read fd, or the write fd, whichever you like
2019-07-07T04:19:00 < mawk> after that the buffer is updated for both fd
2019-07-07T04:19:44 < mawk> so you open the pipe, you set the buffer size on the read end for instance, then you fork ? and you communicate through 2 processes ?
2019-07-07T04:20:03 < dongs> no, its same fucking process i am just using it as a buffer between 2 threads
2019-07-07T04:20:21 < mawk> I don't know if that works
2019-07-07T04:20:24 < mawk> let me try
2019-07-07T04:20:24 < dongs> why wouldnt it?
2019-07-07T04:20:26 < dongs> CreatePipe does
2019-07-07T04:20:42 < mawk> you need to close one end of the pipe to tell the kernel which end you're using
2019-07-07T04:20:47 < mawk> maybe duplicating it would do the trick
2019-07-07T04:21:05 < mawk> yeah but both these things are made for interprocess communication, you're just hacking it to suit your needs
2019-07-07T04:21:11 < mawk> it happens that the windows implementation supports it
2019-07-07T04:21:17 < mawk> and maybe the linux one does too, let me try
2019-07-07T04:21:30 < mawk> otherwise with socketpair you can do it in the same process, I already did it
2019-07-07T04:21:35 < mawk> it works like a pipe afaik
2019-07-07T04:21:44 < dongs> i cant imagine socketpair having any sorta buffering
2019-07-07T04:22:05 < dongs> #define F_LINUX_SPECIFIC_BASE   1024
2019-07-07T04:22:06 < dongs> #define F_SETPIPE_SZ    (F_LINUX_SPECIFIC_BASE + 7)
2019-07-07T04:22:07 < dongs> lolwut
2019-07-07T04:22:09 < dongs> fucking lunix trash
2019-07-07T04:22:13 < dongs> not even defined in a standard?
2019-07-07T04:22:59 < mawk> why wouldn't a socket be buffered ?
2019-07-07T04:23:13 < mawk> if data travels through the internet the receiver buffers it until the program calls read() to get the data
2019-07-07T04:23:19 < mawk> here the receiver happens to be on the local machine but same thing
2019-07-07T04:23:24 < mawk> yeah it's a linux syscall
2019-07-07T04:25:24 < Cracki> cursed chinese st-link clones got metal cases with the wrong pinout on them :S
2019-07-07T04:28:42 < mawk> yes it works actually dongs 
2019-07-07T04:28:47 < mawk> nevermind what I said about same process
2019-07-07T04:31:05 < mawk> apart from peeking the number of bytes into the pipe dongs you know you can use it in nonblocking mode
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2019-07-07T04:31:15 < mawk> you read PIPE_BUF everytime and that will only read out the number of bytes actually in the pipe
2019-07-07T04:31:25 < mawk> and you can get notified that data is present for reading using select/poll/epoll
2019-07-07T04:31:38 < mawk> and multiplex that waiting for notification with waiting on other file descriptors
2019-07-07T04:31:59 < mawk> which could be various things like sockets, other pipes, named pipes, alarms, whatever
2019-07-07T04:32:03 < mawk> signals, too
2019-07-07T04:33:37 < mawk> why were you looking for the source of F_SETPIPE_SZ dongs ?
2019-07-07T04:33:40 < mawk> because you got undefined error ?
2019-07-07T04:33:49 < mawk> you need to add -D_GNU_SOURCE to gcc command line
2019-07-07T04:34:06 < mawk> or put #define _GNU_SOURCE before the first import of fcntl.h and unistd.h
2019-07-07T04:38:13 < mawk> also no real need to become root you can just put fs.pipe-max-size=10485760 at the bottom of /etc/sysctl.conf
2019-07-07T04:41:32 < mawk> yeah Cracki what would be a chinese product with a correct silkscreen or no english typos ?
2019-07-07T04:42:01 < mawk> my soldering station says soleding
2019-07-07T04:42:02 < Cracki> all they had to do is take the lettering from whatever I bought before because that was right
2019-07-07T04:42:17 < Cracki> meme country
2019-07-07T04:49:16 < Cracki> if only I had tested them when they arrived and not chugged them in the Pile of Stuff and forgotten about them for 3 months...
2019-07-07T04:50:34 < dongs> mawk, i don't need PIPE_BUF bytes tho.
2019-07-07T04:50:42 < dongs> i put in 48k and read out like 1316bytes or something
2019-07-07T04:50:44 < dongs> at different rates
2019-07-07T04:50:57 < mawk> yes it's just the upper bound
2019-07-07T04:51:14 < mawk> in nonblocking mode you read the maximum size, say 10 MiB, and you will get the whole pipe buffer
2019-07-07T04:51:18 < mawk> even if it's less than 10 MiB
2019-07-07T04:51:31 < mawk> it amounts the same as reading the size by peeking before I guess
2019-07-07T04:52:04 < dongs> so it returns 10 megs with 1 meg of data and 9 megs of crap?
2019-07-07T04:52:05 < dongs> or what
2019-07-07T04:52:13 < mawk> no, just 1 meg of data
2019-07-07T04:52:19 < mawk> but don't worry about that if your code is already using peek
2019-07-07T04:52:21 < mawk> just port that
2019-07-07T04:52:37 < mawk> on linux read() returns the number of bytes actually read
2019-07-07T04:52:43 < mawk> that's how you know how much was there
2019-07-07T04:53:06 < mawk> if blocking mode (the regular mode) read() should return the number of bytes you asked for, but not always
2019-07-07T04:53:17 < mawk> there are some specific edge cases I guess, but don't worry about that
2019-07-07T04:53:35 < mawk> if you didn't touch any settings or install any signal handler it shouldn't happen
2019-07-07T04:54:55 < Thorn> https://wordsandbuttons.online/so_you_think_you_know_c.html
2019-07-07T04:57:07 < mawk> hm
2019-07-07T04:57:12 < mawk> that quizz is a bit lame Thorn 
2019-07-07T04:57:17 < mawk> all answers depend on the local architecture
2019-07-07T04:57:28 < mawk> for instance for question 3 it depends on the signedness of char
2019-07-07T04:57:47 < Thorn> and sizes of standard types
2019-07-07T04:57:55 < Thorn> and struct padding
2019-07-07T04:57:57 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-07T05:01:58 < mawk> oh ok that's the point of the quizz
2019-07-07T05:01:59 < mawk> meh
2019-07-07T05:02:05 < mawk> it's still lame
2019-07-07T05:02:16 < mawk> there should have been a choice "compiler settings dependant" instead of "I don't know"
2019-07-07T05:02:31 < mawk> because I knew it was dependant, I knew that I couldn't know, it's not that I didn't know
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2019-07-07T05:06:49 < Cracki> lol answer 2C!
2019-07-07T05:07:03 < Cracki> comparisons are zero or nonzero, so it could be two
2019-07-07T05:25:39 < aandrew> wtf is dongs doing with GNU_SOURCE anything
2019-07-07T05:25:49 < aandrew> has he had an aneurysm?
2019-07-07T05:25:56 < aandrew> I damn near had one trying to type the fucking word
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2019-07-07T05:31:56 < dongs> GAY_SOURCE
2019-07-07T05:32:01 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2019-07-07T05:32:04 < dongs> yeah im trying to move my working windows code to lunix
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2019-07-07T05:32:48 < dongs> GNU/FAILSAUCE
2019-07-07T05:33:18 < aandrew> that's an idiotic C test to say the least
2019-07-07T05:33:26 < dongs> yeah absolteuly
2019-07-07T05:33:29 < dongs> i didnt even bother answering
2019-07-07T05:33:31 < dongs> because like
2019-07-07T05:33:34 < aandrew> I picture some neckbeard giggling at his own cleverness
2019-07-07T05:33:40 < aandrew> IT'S ALL UB tee hee hee hee
2019-07-07T05:33:49 < dongs> its such niche shit that either 1) you'll never need to use it 2) you will use it, comment it, and do some build tests/look at asm to make sure it works
2019-07-07T05:33:55 < dongs> but yea all retarded platform dependent faggot shit
2019-07-07T05:38:59 < Cracki> *g*
2019-07-07T05:39:55 < Cracki> what's actually retarded is C's modulo semantics. (-12) % 10 == -2
2019-07-07T05:40:20 < Cracki> when you expect the result to be in 0 .. N-1
2019-07-07T05:40:43 < Cracki> and getting it in that range requires extra thinking
2019-07-07T05:41:33 < dongs> how is that retarded.................
2019-07-07T05:44:30 < R2COM> NIGGER_SOURCE
2019-07-07T05:45:32 < dongs> interesting, shit actually worked on lunix
2019-07-07T05:45:36 < dongs> after fixing like 2 compile errors
2019-07-07T05:45:43 < dongs> that i wrote blindly in vs.ide
2019-07-07T05:45:50 < dongs> under #ifdef _WIN32 #else
2019-07-07T05:45:51 < dongs> for lunix filth
2019-07-07T05:45:57 < R2COM> what is that code for?
2019-07-07T05:46:16 < dongs> lunix interface for my device
2019-07-07T05:46:18 < dongs> o wait, spoke too soon
2019-07-07T05:46:22 < dongs> the acutal file it creates is zero
2019-07-07T05:49:31 < dongs> pipe2 returned 0
2019-07-07T05:49:31 < dongs> fcntl returned 1048576
2019-07-07T05:49:32 < dongs> hmmm.
2019-07-07T05:51:15 < dongs> oh lol
2019-07-07T05:51:23 < dongs> i didnt write bufferput for lunix
2019-07-07T05:55:15 < dongs> ok now it wroks
2019-07-07T05:55:26 < dongs> allright seems about right
2019-07-07T05:58:28 < R2COM> what you doing in lunix dafuq is this for
2019-07-07T05:58:57 < dongs> nothing, some niggers are too cheap to buy my windows software
2019-07-07T05:59:04 < dongs> so im gonna give htem compiled closedsores lunix binaries instead
2019-07-07T05:59:34 < R2COM> i use lunix only at work, to run circuit sims in retarded cadence ic package
2019-07-07T06:04:50 < Cracki> have you considered using windows binaries + wine?
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2019-07-07T06:30:36 < R2COM> darn i was supposed to get out for dinner with my girl and she is still getting nails done, im hungry as fuck and im bored
2019-07-07T06:44:47 < Cracki> get her declawed maybe
2019-07-07T06:44:55 < Cracki> or get a model with penis
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2019-07-07T07:19:27 < dongs> you should rape her
2019-07-07T07:31:46 < Cracki> that would solve the boredom but not the hunger
2019-07-07T07:32:28 < Cracki> maybe involve fava beans and a nice chianti
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2019-07-07T08:27:55 < mawk> Cracki: python does it like this, but I thought C didn't
2019-07-07T08:28:11 < mawk> otherwise you can do in general (n + (a % n)) % n
2019-07-07T08:28:16 < mawk> that's always positive
2019-07-07T08:28:22 < Cracki> that's what everyone advises
2019-07-07T08:28:27 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-07T08:28:28 < mawk> but it's ugly
2019-07-07T08:28:30 < mawk> it does two mods
2019-07-07T08:28:35 < mawk> the real thing is just doing an if
2019-07-07T08:28:38 < Cracki> not sure what assembly instructions do... I hope the compiler can optimize
2019-07-07T08:28:51 < mawk> I don't think the compiler can optimize that
2019-07-07T08:29:05 < mawk> maybe (a % n) >= 0 ? (a % n) : (n + (a % n))
2019-07-07T08:29:10 < Cracki> someone pointed out the difference between modulo and remainder
2019-07-07T08:29:13 < mawk> this one would get optimized, it's three times the same constant
2019-07-07T08:29:33 < Cracki> also that C standard has an identity: a/b*b + a%b == a or something
2019-07-07T08:29:33 < mawk> yeah, the modulo is anything that fits the r in a = bq + r
2019-07-07T08:29:43 < mawk> while the remainder is the smallest positive such r
2019-07-07T08:30:10 < Cracki> or negative
2019-07-07T08:30:11 < mawk> so in a%n you can add ns as much as you want and it's still mathematically valid
2019-07-07T08:30:18 < Cracki> sure
2019-07-07T08:30:20 < mawk> for remainder ? positive I think
2019-07-07T08:30:26 < mawk> for modulo yes it can be negative
2019-07-07T08:30:36 < Cracki> they talked about math
2019-07-07T08:30:47 < Cracki> in math, the remainder can be negative for a negative operand
2019-07-07T08:30:59 < Cracki> but modulo is supposed to be nonnegative
2019-07-07T08:31:12 < mawk> if you swap modulo and remainder in this sentence then I agree
2019-07-07T08:31:24 < Cracki> but really, any representative of that set is good
2019-07-07T08:31:27 < mawk> for -1/3 for instance you have -1 = -1×3 + 2, remainder is 2
2019-07-07T08:31:42 < Cracki> what's -1 modulo 3 then
2019-07-07T08:31:44 < mawk> while for modulo you can take any representant of the equivalence class yes
2019-07-07T08:31:49 < Cracki> and what's the remainder of -1 / 3
2019-07-07T08:32:08 < Cracki> -1 = 0*3 -1
2019-07-07T08:32:10 < mawk> -1 mod 3 can be 2, can be -1, can be 5
2019-07-07T08:32:19 < Cracki> because -1/3 = -(1/3) = 0
2019-07-07T08:32:38 < mawk> yes -1 works as a modulus
2019-07-07T08:32:41 < Cracki> yes that's how I learned modulo, they're all equivalent
2019-07-07T08:32:46 < mawk> but the remainder needs to be positive
2019-07-07T08:32:53 < mawk> as is in french at least
2019-07-07T08:32:55 < Cracki> so it's a weird programmer distinction, or maybe a murican distinction
2019-07-07T08:32:58 < mawk> sometimes maths conventions are weird depending on country
2019-07-07T08:33:03 < Cracki> because they stop doing math after high school
2019-07-07T08:33:07 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-07T08:33:53 < Cracki> see the reply about haskell and scheme: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11720656/modulo-operation-with-negative-numbers
2019-07-07T08:35:31 < mawk> #define MOD(_a, _b) ({ __auto_type a = (_a); __auto_type b = (_b); __auto_type n = a % b; n >= 0 ? n : n + b; })
2019-07-07T08:35:35 < Cracki> sooo CM4 has hardware divide, I'm not seeing modulo yet
2019-07-07T08:35:36 < mawk> here's a macro for positive mod
2019-07-07T08:35:52 < mawk> hardware integer divide ?
2019-07-07T08:36:07 < Cracki> yes
2019-07-07T08:36:28 < Cracki> I guess modulo is derived from that and a subtraction or something
2019-07-07T08:37:03 < Cracki> SDIV for signed divide
2019-07-07T08:37:23 < Cracki> cm4 should be armv7
2019-07-07T08:38:03 < mawk> well the naive way is using division like a - b*(a/b)
2019-07-07T08:38:15 < mawk> but you have this to compute it faster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_reduction
2019-07-07T08:38:21 < Cracki> I'd like to find how they define that instruction, its semantics
2019-07-07T08:38:34 < mawk> signed divide ?
2019-07-07T08:38:45 < mawk> yeah it's always tricky
2019-07-07T08:38:57 < Cracki> a < n^2
2019-07-07T08:39:08 < Cracki> so... that's a severe restriction
2019-07-07T08:39:27 < Cracki> unless that inequality is modulo n also
2019-07-07T08:40:25 < Cracki> nvm, I'm tired, I "saw" the square on the wrong variable
2019-07-07T08:40:50 < mawk> yeah well it's a strange assertion
2019-07-07T08:41:00 < mawk> a is the modulus, it's supposed to be always smaller than n
2019-07-07T08:41:14 < mawk> so I believe it means that on the underlying computer n² musn't overflow such that it gets smaller than a
2019-07-07T08:41:17 < Cracki> so now it's allowed to be larger than n, upto n^2
2019-07-07T08:41:23 < Cracki> probably that
2019-07-07T08:41:39 < Cracki> a is what is getting moduled
2019-07-07T08:41:53 < mawk> that depends if you're in maths or not
2019-07-07T08:42:01 < mawk> but in maths c = a mod n means c is getting moduled
2019-07-07T08:42:03 < mawk> and a is the result
2019-07-07T08:42:09 < mawk> the article is unclear
2019-07-07T08:42:14 < Cracki> uh
2019-07-07T08:42:23 < mawk> usually you write that with a ≡ sign instead of =
2019-07-07T08:42:34 < Cracki> I learned modulus to mean "(c = a) mod n"
2019-07-07T08:42:45 < Cracki> yes
2019-07-07T08:43:12 < mawk> but yes you're right in this case
2019-07-07T08:43:19 < mawk> they mean it like c == a % n
2019-07-07T08:44:00 < mawk> since below they do a  - n * (a/n)
2019-07-07T08:45:23 < Cracki> life was easier before someone invented negative signs, or zeroes
2019-07-07T08:45:42 < mawk> lol
2019-07-07T08:45:44 < rajkosto> what about the guy who invented imaginary numbers
2019-07-07T08:46:04 < Cracki> I get that, i don't get quaternions yet
2019-07-07T08:46:12 < Cracki> intuitively, that is
2019-07-07T08:46:30 < Cracki> identities aren't intuition
2019-07-07T08:46:35 < mawk> you have the 3D rotation approach that can explain away the non-commutativity of quaternions
2019-07-07T08:46:40 < mawk> in order to get it intuitively
2019-07-07T08:46:46 < mawk> non-commutativity is weird to get indeed
2019-07-07T08:46:59 < mawk> qr != rq is weird
2019-07-07T08:47:08 < Cracki> what I'd need to get is why this prevents gimbal lock
2019-07-07T08:47:22 < Cracki> because that's THE practical feature of them
2019-07-07T08:47:42 < rajkosto> cuz they are just a more compact representation of a rotation-only transformation matrix
2019-07-07T08:48:00 < rajkosto> theres no "3 steps to get a matrix out of it" needed to get you into gimbal lock
2019-07-07T08:48:34 < rajkosto> aka euler angle evaluation order
2019-07-07T08:49:28 < Cracki> so... just using rotation matrices would be just as ok?
2019-07-07T08:49:40 < rajkosto> yes
2019-07-07T08:49:43 < rajkosto> quats are easier to lerp tho
2019-07-07T08:49:49 < Cracki> and the only problem is people wanting to have three nice angles in their hands? i see
2019-07-07T08:50:00 < Cracki> lerp derp
2019-07-07T08:50:19 < Cracki> what's there to linearly interpolate
2019-07-07T08:50:24 < rajkosto> animations
2019-07-07T08:50:28 < Cracki> hm
2019-07-07T08:50:36 < rajkosto> any "blending" between 2 rotations
2019-07-07T08:50:54 < Cracki> does a lerp of quats make it move "on the unit sphere"?
2019-07-07T08:51:03 < rajkosto> sure
2019-07-07T08:51:03 < mawk> with quaternions the rotation is done instantly
2019-07-07T08:51:10 < mawk> like rajkosto said no 3 steps one after the other
2019-07-07T08:51:35 < rajkosto> with euler angles you have a "pitch" "yaw" and "roll" and a rotation is defined by those 3 parameters but also the order you apply them in
2019-07-07T08:51:41 < Cracki> so what's the geometric interpretation of those 4-component vectors people call quaternions?
2019-07-07T08:51:45 < rajkosto> theres always an "pitch" "yaw" and "roll" that will get you to the target orietnation
2019-07-07T08:51:52 < rajkosto> but not always in the order you have predefined
2019-07-07T08:51:57 < mawk> rotation around an axis, Cracki 
2019-07-07T08:52:02 < rajkosto> Cracki, rotation of vectors in imaginary space
2019-07-07T08:52:09 < rajkosto> using complex numbers
2019-07-07T08:52:11 < Cracki> I have four numbers, but the rotation needs three numbers
2019-07-07T08:52:24 < rajkosto> unit quaternions 
2019-07-07T08:52:26 < Cracki> can I exchange one dimension for the other?
2019-07-07T08:52:29 < rajkosto> mean you can just get the 4th one
2019-07-07T08:52:34 < rajkosto> with sqrt
2019-07-07T08:52:57 < mawk> you have a²+b²+c²+d² = 1 for your a:b:c:d quaternion
2019-07-07T08:53:12 < rajkosto> anyway read up on what gimbal lock actually is
2019-07-07T08:53:17 < rajkosto> to see that it only applies to euler angles
2019-07-07T08:53:24 < rajkosto> not matrix based transforms
2019-07-07T08:53:28 < Cracki> that identity... helps. looks familiar.
2019-07-07T08:55:48 < Cracki> so... quats are vectors in 4d space. does that mean interpreting them as a 3d rotation requires a projection?
2019-07-07T08:58:43 < Cracki> ah nvm, that one degree of freedom disappears because they're restricted to be on the unit sphere
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2019-07-07T10:42:55 < dongs> how the fuck do i export some symbols from a .so
2019-07-07T10:43:27 < dongs> "The __attribute__ ((visibility ("hidden"))) is very similar to __declspec(dllexport) that can be found on Microsoft's compilers. In fact, GCC should handle it as well. "
2019-07-07T10:43:30 < dongs> oh
2019-07-07T10:43:33 < dongs> lwets see if I can actually use declspec
2019-07-07T10:56:30 < jpa-> isn't "visibility hidden" kind of opposite of dllexport
2019-07-07T10:56:36 < jpa-> AFAIK gcc defaults to exporting all symbols
2019-07-07T10:57:36 < jpa-> and if you want to hide some, you can put "visibility hidden" on them and "visibility default" on others; or #pragma GCC visibility push(hidden)  and similar to apply for whole file
2019-07-07T10:57:56 < jadew> on ebay, when someone buys two things from you, you get two separate paypal transactions?
2019-07-07T10:58:21 < jpa-> jadew: depends on if they buy them in one go through cart or separately
2019-07-07T10:58:49 < jadew> jpa-, yeah, if they buy them in one go?
2019-07-07T10:58:56 < jadew> should be just one, correct?
2019-07-07T10:59:09 < jpa-> yeah
2019-07-07T10:59:54 < jadew> why would I have two transactions, 40 seconds apart then?
2019-07-07T10:59:58 < jadew> from the same guy
2019-07-07T11:00:14 < jadew> does he want two separate invoices?
2019-07-07T11:00:21 < jadew> not sure what to read into this
2019-07-07T11:00:34 < jpa-> or he just didn't use cart?
2019-07-07T11:00:54 < jadew> so think it would be ok to send him a single invoice?
2019-07-07T11:01:24 < jpa-> is there even any requirement on ebay to send invoices?
2019-07-07T11:01:31 < dongs> ya wut
2019-07-07T11:01:38 < dongs> when i sold shit on ebay i just put it in a box and send it
2019-07-07T11:01:48 < jadew> jpa-, don't know about ebay, but I have to send invoices anyway
2019-07-07T11:01:49 < jpa-> sure they can be nice for tax purposes in EU, especially for the seller
2019-07-07T11:02:01 < jpa-> but the buyer doesn't usually care if it is one or separate
2019-07-07T11:02:01 < dongs> declspec didnt wortk
2019-07-07T11:02:09 < jadew> I see
2019-07-07T11:02:11 < jadew> thanks
2019-07-07T11:02:18 < jadew> then I'll just use the one
2019-07-07T11:02:47 < jpa-> ebay cart is kind of useless (have to checkout separate currencies etc. separately, not all items can be put in cart etc.) so i'm not suprised that some people just don't use it
2019-07-07T11:02:52 < dongs>     #ifdef __GNUC__
2019-07-07T11:02:52 < dongs>       #define DLL_PUBLIC __attribute__ ((dllexport))
2019-07-07T11:02:52 < dongs>     #else
2019-07-07T11:02:52 < dongs>       #define DLL_PUBLIC __declspec(dllexport) // Note: actually gcc seems to also supports this syntax.
2019-07-07T11:02:55 < dongs>     #endif
2019-07-07T11:02:57 < dongs> gaaay
2019-07-07T11:03:03 < dongs> fuckin aids
2019-07-07T11:03:50 < jadew> lol
2019-07-07T11:04:04 < dongs>  relocation R_X86_64_PC32 against symbol `stderr@@GLIBC_2.2.5' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
2019-07-07T11:04:08 < dongs> wat
2019-07-07T11:04:32 < jpa-> shared libraries should be -fPIC to be relocatable
2019-07-07T11:04:50 < dongs> ya fuckin hell this shit exported everythign
2019-07-07T11:16:22 < dongs> wait what
2019-07-07T11:16:28 < dongs> gm i wonder if its cuz its deub crap
2019-07-07T11:16:29 < dongs> debug
2019-07-07T11:16:59 < dongs> hm nope
2019-07-07T11:16:59 < dongs> gay
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2019-07-07T11:23:29 < dongs> nice
2019-07-07T11:23:30 < dongs> fixed
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2019-07-07T11:33:25 < dongs> nice. and i can build teh shit
2019-07-07T11:36:16 < dongs> why teh fuck does lunix not add . to dll search path
2019-07-07T11:36:24 < dongs> lol @ needing to LD_LIBRARY_PATH=. 
2019-07-07T11:40:22 < jpa-> because having . in dll/so search path is ridicuously dangerous
2019-07-07T11:40:47 < jpa-> like "cd download" and run any command, and if you've accidentally downloaded malicious libc.so, that's it, you're compromised
2019-07-07T11:41:04 < dongs> sounds liek a lunix problem tbh
2019-07-07T11:41:39 < jpa-> not really, it used to be a big problem on windows also until they added that tracking of files that are downloaded from web
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2019-07-07T11:42:01 < jpa-> though even windows doesn't add . to search path, just the directory of the exe which is different
2019-07-07T11:42:23 < dongs> well in my case exe is where its built
2019-07-07T11:42:24 < dongs> right next to lib
2019-07-07T11:43:06 < jpa-> yeah, it'd be nice if linux allowed to specify relative search path in the executable
2019-07-07T11:43:27 < jpa-> oh wait, it does https://stackoverflow.com/questions/26131380/is-there-a-way-to-add-a-relative-library-path-to-an-executable-to-avoid-setting
2019-07-07T11:44:33  * antto tosses around <totally_innocent_file.exe>
2019-07-07T11:44:41 < jpa-> so give e.g.  -rpath '$ORIGIN'   to linker when building your executable and then it will search for .so in the same directory
2019-07-07T11:45:30 < dongs> is -Xlinker the wa to do it
2019-07-07T11:45:53 < dongs> ya that worked
2019-07-07T11:45:54 < dongs> cool
2019-07-07T11:46:03 < jpa-> i usually use -Wl but yeah looks like -Xlinker does the same
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2019-07-07T11:52:45 < dongs> allright, well this shit works i guess im done
2019-07-07T11:52:50 < dongs> lunix fags can complain about it not working later
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2019-07-07T12:06:18 < qyx>  dongs working on lunix
2019-07-07T12:06:27 < qyx> thats something like a solar eclipse
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2019-07-07T12:44:09 < dongs> yeah i avoided making lunix drivers for my shit ever since they stopped kernel 2.6
2019-07-07T12:44:14 < dongs> i used to have a kernel driver for it
2019-07-07T12:44:21 < dongs> but they made it so fucking difficult to compile shit out of free
2019-07-07T12:44:25 < dongs> er out of tree
2019-07-07T12:44:25 < dongs> i gave up
2019-07-07T12:44:49 < dongs> plus over 9000 distros
2019-07-07T13:19:25 < jpa-> http://www.kplugs.org/   you should write your kernel drivers in python so they'll be 100% portable
2019-07-07T13:25:47 < dongs> taht is so fucking awful
2019-07-07T13:38:43 < veverak> lol
2019-07-07T13:45:11 < zyp> jpa-, cool, I'll get right on that
2019-07-07T13:47:16 < qyx> I am curious why did they not choose some more usable python vm implementation
2019-07-07T13:47:27 < qyx> instead of writing their own
2019-07-07T13:48:04 < zyp> actually, that is pretty cool, if it works like sort of a generalized FUSE
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2019-07-07T14:28:17 < Steffann> lol the things mr d loves most combined.
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2019-07-07T14:46:33 < qyx> zyp: yeah but they could have used llvm or a similar existing vm, now they advice you to write your own compiler, fuk writing a compiler
2019-07-07T14:52:31 < sync> pls wut qyx
2019-07-07T14:55:49 < qyx> sry
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2019-07-07T15:08:36 < dongs> how the fuck do i compile 32butt shit with gcc on lunux
2019-07-07T15:08:44 < dongs> do i have to install 32butt lunix
2019-07-07T15:11:32 < sync> no
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2019-07-07T15:47:46 < Cracki> https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/compile-32-bit-program-64-bit-gcc-c-c/
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2019-07-07T18:21:37 < mawk> dongs: -m32
2019-07-07T18:21:43 < mawk> as simple as that
2019-07-07T18:22:07 < mawk> you need 32 bits libs tho, it's just a simple apt command away
2019-07-07T18:24:12 < mawk> like sudo apt install libc6-dev:i386
2019-07-07T18:24:43 < mawk> maybe have to add i386 architecture, with sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386; sudo apt update
2019-07-07T18:38:17 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/gallery/7gVK2mr
2019-07-07T18:38:52 < mawk> lol
2019-07-07T18:44:53 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/gallery/wU5tWYO
2019-07-07T18:45:12 < bitmask> imgur has some gold
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2019-07-07T18:55:29 < karlp> that kplugs stuff is gross. why would I want to write my functions inside strings
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2019-07-07T19:13:40 < dongs> how do i install 32shit libusb
2019-07-07T19:13:57 < mawk> install libusb-dev:i386
2019-07-07T19:13:59 < mawk> I guess
2019-07-07T19:16:15 < dongs> gaymd64 version is called libusb-1.0-0-dev
2019-07-07T19:16:17 < dongs> but it doesnt work
2019-07-07T19:17:21 < mawk> yes then you just suffix it with :i386
2019-07-07T19:17:29 < dongs> doesnt work
2019-07-07T19:17:45 < mawk> I just installed it myself
2019-07-07T19:18:13 < dongs> E: Unable to locate package libusb-1.0-0:i386
2019-07-07T19:18:20 < mawk> using debian ?
2019-07-07T19:18:27 < dongs> niggerbunto but same shit yes
2019-07-07T19:19:03 < mawk> on debian I have it in main repos, maybe ubuntu messed up
2019-07-07T19:19:05 < mawk> let me see
2019-07-07T19:19:24 < dongs> have to add architecture i think
2019-07-07T19:20:26 < mawk> ah yes
2019-07-07T19:20:28 < mawk> indeed
2019-07-07T19:20:31 < mawk> I thought you did earlier
2019-07-07T19:20:39 < mawk> sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386; sudo apt update
2019-07-07T19:20:59 < dongs> works
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2019-07-07T20:03:16 < Thorn> has anyone done an iso-buck topology?
2019-07-07T20:03:31 < Thorn> can I use any sync buck controller ic?
2019-07-07T20:03:34 < dongs> i think i looked at it
2019-07-07T20:03:41 < dongs> when i was searching for PoE shit
2019-07-07T20:03:46 < Thorn> http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snva674b/snva674b.pdf
2019-07-07T20:04:07 < dongs> ya thats the part
2019-07-07T20:04:08 < dongs> LM5017
2019-07-07T20:53:14 < karlp> Thorn: it was my understanding that you could just use any buckcontroller yes, it was just the magic choice of the coupled inductor 
2019-07-07T20:53:59 < Thorn> the efficiency in their graph looks very low (down to 60%)
2019-07-07T20:54:14 < Thorn> looking at another appnote
2019-07-07T20:55:22 < karlp> if you look at the efficiencyt of small isolated supplies you get that sort of figure anyway
2019-07-07T20:55:47 < karlp> the goal is small/cheap not optimal 
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2019-07-07T21:00:46 < qyx> Thorn: how much current do you want?
2019-07-07T21:00:52 < qyx> or what are you expectations
2019-07-07T21:01:48 < Thorn> http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slua838/slua838.pdf
2019-07-07T21:02:50 < Thorn> probably about 1A @5V
2019-07-07T21:07:51 < Thorn> 12...24V input
2019-07-07T21:08:57 < jpa-> the efficiency drop in snva674b.pdf is also largely due to the big voltage range shown, considering it operates 20-100V it's not surprising it's not very optimal over the whole range
2019-07-07T21:09:25 < Thorn> I definitely do not need 100V
2019-07-07T21:09:28 < Thorn> not even 30V
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2019-07-07T23:58:04 < Thorn> I recompiled an old project with gcc 8.2. there was a function that returns uint8_t but has no return statement at the end. gcc didn't put any bx lr there. code runs into a data area (present in arm after most functions) and hardfaults.
2019-07-07T23:58:14 < Thorn> 5/5 would gcc again
2019-07-07T23:59:07 < Cracki> uh... so uint8_t foo(void) {} will cause bad assembly?
2019-07-07T23:59:26 < Cracki> will it at least warn about that
--- Day changed Mon Jul 08 2019
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2019-07-08T00:06:39 < Thorn> yeah I changed the type to void and voila pop {..., pc} there
2019-07-08T00:07:50 < Thorn> and no more crash
2019-07-08T00:08:30 < zyp> what does the C spec say about a missing return statement? undefined behavior or undefined return value?
2019-07-08T00:08:39 < Thorn> old gcc that I used when I was doing this project didn't do that
2019-07-08T00:09:52 < zyp> C++98 says «Flowing off the end of a function is equivalent to a return with no value; this results in undefined behavior in a value-returning function.»
2019-07-08T00:10:20 < zyp> so technically the compiler is allowed to omit the bx lr
2019-07-08T00:14:07 < Cracki> -Wall -Wextra -ansi -pedantic -masochistic
2019-07-08T00:15:53 < Cracki> ah, compiler "can't check" (excuse) whether there's any return statement https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1610030/why-does-flowing-off-the-end-of-a-non-void-function-without-returning-a-value-no
2019-07-08T00:17:30 < zyp> the second answer there is good
2019-07-08T00:18:18 < zyp> I mean, in most functions it's obvious whether the end of the function body is reachable or not, but not always
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2019-07-08T00:19:08 < zyp> but once you add conditional returns, it gets fairly hard to tell whether all conditions could be false
2019-07-08T00:20:37 < zyp> say e.g: int foo(int x) { if(x > 0) { return 1; } if(x < 0) { return -1; } }
2019-07-08T00:21:25 < zyp> according to spec, compiler is allowed to assume foo(0) is invalid, optimize for the valid cases and let a call to foo(0) crash
2019-07-08T00:32:05 < Thorn> dataflow analysis should catch that afaict
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2019-07-08T00:40:40 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/16-TiPqUWD5O6W7RjShjfUg6HvYCByZnV/view?usp=sharing moped problems
2019-07-08T00:41:19 < Cracki> I'd like it to end the procedure with a "return <default value for return type>"
2019-07-08T00:41:33 < Cracki> AND warn
2019-07-08T00:41:49 < Cracki> same behavior as for main()
2019-07-08T00:41:56 < Cracki> yes that's special but why should it be
2019-07-08T00:43:26 < kakimir> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/boeing-s-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers
2019-07-08T00:45:48 < englishman> first time I read that it said $12/hr
2019-07-08T00:48:01 < Steffann> same
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2019-07-08T00:48:21 < Thorn> porn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW7hojz-QBw
2019-07-08T00:49:14 < Steffanx> Not your proudest fap?
2019-07-08T00:56:40 < Thorn> at least it's not naked women
2019-07-08T00:58:08 < kakimir> train on a train
2019-07-08T00:58:45 < Cracki> was expecting cats
2019-07-08T00:59:07 < Cracki> wow that gravel is getting plowed
2019-07-08T01:00:10 < Cracki> SCHLOSS ENTFERNEN! looks like a german device
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2019-07-08T01:02:27 < kakimir> looks like german efficiency
2019-07-08T01:02:40 < zyp> pretty awesome shit
2019-07-08T01:02:57 < kakimir> those things are used everywhere actually
2019-07-08T01:03:19 < kakimir> not prisoners anymore laying track
2019-07-08T01:04:58 < zyp> reminds me of «Crucible», from the Luna books I recently read
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2019-07-08T01:09:59 < karlp> what happens to the old sleepers?
2019-07-08T01:11:51 < zyp> I assume they stack them where the new ones were before
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2019-07-08T01:12:45 < BrainDamage> the wood ones are normally impregnated with creosote which makes them toxic and non recyclable
2019-07-08T01:12:58 < zyp> yeah
2019-07-08T01:13:14 < karlp> zyp: what?
2019-07-08T01:13:42 < kakimir> dongs: have you played with samsung oled displays?
2019-07-08T01:14:01 < zyp> karlp, what sense of «happens»?
2019-07-08T01:24:46 < englishman> looks liek they are removed the same way the new ones are inserted, using the train-on-a-train
2019-07-08T01:27:37 < englishman> Sheila Johnson, manager of Central Wool Growers, a farmers' co-operative in Market Rasen, Lincolnshire, sells sleepers at £20.56 each. "We're asked for them constantly," she says.
2019-07-08T01:28:19 < englishman> http://railway-sleepers.com/
2019-07-08T01:29:09 < Steffanx> Yeah seems they sell them here for about the same
2019-07-08T01:30:00 < Steffanx> Used ones...
2019-07-08T01:30:32 < kakimir> remember to buy pallet sofa and transmission line wire reel table
2019-07-08T01:32:00 < kakimir> https://www.instructables.com/id/BBQBraai-Table-1/ not bad when tarnished
2019-07-08T01:33:25 < Steffanx> Meh
2019-07-08T01:34:41 < kakimir> and it makes food too
2019-07-08T01:35:06 < kakimir> I like smell of old rail track sleepers in summer
2019-07-08T01:35:14 < kakimir> those made of wood
2019-07-08T01:35:27 < Cracki> bbq can't melt concrete beams
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2019-07-08T01:40:29 < kakimir51> mains go on off on off
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2019-07-08T01:41:19 < englishman> instructables"
2019-07-08T01:41:22 < englishman> for bbq
2019-07-08T01:41:25 < englishman> 1) find something
2019-07-08T01:41:31 < englishman> 2) cut a hole and put a bbq in it
2019-07-08T01:41:35 < englishman> now you have a bbq
2019-07-08T01:45:29 < kakimir51> how to bbq
2019-07-08T01:49:15 < MrMobius> s/bbq/rpi
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2019-07-08T02:04:35 < kakimir51> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB-l1ijtRoo night kaki musics
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2019-07-08T12:29:37 < qyx> kicad crashes, quietly
2019-07-08T13:13:00 < jpa-> mini-jpa saw how heatshrink tube works, and now he's convinced that our hair dryer is the magic shrinking/enlarger gun from cartoons
2019-07-08T13:14:49 < englishman> nice
2019-07-08T13:15:10 < englishman> what other lies will you feed him today so you can laugh at him later?
2019-07-08T13:41:52 < jpa-> i'm trying to make him believe that i can accomplish actual work with desktop linux, but it's been a hard sell so far
2019-07-08T13:42:16 < jpa-> last winter he opted to make own computer out of snow and i'm not so sure what operating system it ran
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2019-07-08T13:44:20 < jpa-> oh, and we also disagree on whether \U0001F4A9 means chocolate icecream
2019-07-08T13:50:50 < qyx> looks similar, I would say so
2019-07-08T13:50:58 < qyx> oh a pile of poo
2019-07-08T14:30:52 < Thorn> magic smoke
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2019-07-08T18:01:11 < Thorn> I now have 2 JST crimp tools
2019-07-08T18:09:41 < aandrew> I just discovered that my brother p-touch labeller can use heat shrink tube cartidges
2019-07-08T18:10:39 < aandrew> HSE-211,221,231,241,251 is black on white tube and 6xx is black on yellow tube, from 5.8mm up to 23.6mm dia (3.5-15mm shrunk I think)
2019-07-08T18:11:17 < aandrew> and they're like $7 on ali
2019-07-08T18:11:27 < salcedo> Don't miss the most anticipated episode of the season. Only one series will take all and win the PCB. After a fierce round last episode, RE was eliminated for lack of shroud. It's Thorn's Kitchen, tonight at 7!
2019-07-08T18:13:08 < qyx> aandrew: yeah we had some thermotransfer EOS CAB printer which accepted any heatshrink tube
2019-07-08T18:13:22 < qyx> I mean it was not originally meant to print on HS tubes it seems
2019-07-08T18:14:25 < qyx> we also had that brother label pritner
2019-07-08T18:14:30 < qyx> but it was meh
2019-07-08T18:15:50 < sync> qyx: some are actually made for printing on heatshrink
2019-07-08T18:16:02 < sync> but there is nothing really preventing you from doing so apart from the thickness
2019-07-08T18:23:54 < zyp> cool
2019-07-08T18:24:18 < zyp> I've only dicked around with printing labels and putting transparent heatsink over
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2019-07-08T19:59:02 < englishman> fucking msp430 jesus christ
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2019-07-08T20:19:50 < Steffanx> hi englishman
2019-07-08T20:20:40 < englishman> hi
2019-07-08T20:22:34 < Steffanx> Are you alright?
2019-07-08T20:26:57 < qyx> not enuf multiplicators probably
2019-07-08T20:31:07 < Steffanx> code composter studio is the best though
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2019-07-08T23:36:21 < englishman> their serial port/spi/i2c periph is utter shit
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2019-07-08T23:45:29 < Thorn> found some ultracheap F427 in bga176 in a mobile repair parts store. should I get them just to practice bga soldering?
--- Day changed Tue Jul 09 2019
2019-07-09T00:00:09 < Steffanx> if its ultra cheap.. why not?
2019-07-09T00:01:39 < englishman> moneyed easterners
2019-07-09T00:02:49 < Steffanx> Oil money you know.
2019-07-09T00:07:08 < Thorn> you are confusing me with some sheik
2019-07-09T00:07:36 < Thorn> h
2019-07-09T00:14:37 < Thorn> what core should I use for a flyback? it needs an air gap, so N87 is not a good idea until I grind it? what about sendust?
2019-07-09T00:18:45 < qyx> use a ready made flyback transformee
2019-07-09T00:19:33 < Thorn> it's a special flyback. dc/dc
2019-07-09T00:19:53 < Thorn> turns ration may not be what I need
2019-07-09T00:20:00 < qyx> still applies
2019-07-09T00:20:08 < qyx> there are poe transformers
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2019-07-09T00:57:27 < Thorn> https://www.partsdirect.ru/goods/439324 LPC1778 QFP208 $0.5
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2019-07-09T01:22:26 < Steffanx> .ru doesn't ship to .nl
2019-07-09T01:23:43 < zyp> aww
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2019-07-09T01:39:24 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/AvgeeksAero/status/1148173190646181888
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2019-07-09T03:17:40 < Thorn> http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snva727/snva727.pdf
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2019-07-09T03:18:03 < dongs> niggacoupler
2019-07-09T03:18:37  * Thorn swears in SJW
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2019-07-09T03:28:06 < Thorn> why do flybacks have such low frequency?
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2019-07-09T04:13:26 < dongs> thats how it is
2019-07-09T04:17:43 < emeb_mac> eso si que es
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2019-07-09T04:32:40 < aandrew> "flubuck" lol
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2019-07-09T06:12:07 < R2COM> dongs sup
2019-07-09T06:12:11 < dongs> not much
2019-07-09T06:12:12 < dongs> innovating
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2019-07-09T13:20:46 < englishman> https://twitter.com/GregDavill/status/1145001336213082113
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2019-07-09T13:37:11 < karlp> neat
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2019-07-09T13:44:57 < Thorn> why do JST PH connectors have these weird semi-open shrouds
2019-07-09T13:45:07 < Thorn> unlike XH or ZH
2019-07-09T13:47:45 < englishman> maybe to keep it thinner?
2019-07-09T13:48:10 < englishman> in that pitch I usually use PA
2019-07-09T13:49:55 < Thorn> another similar but incompatible family?
2019-07-09T13:50:11 < englishman> of course
2019-07-09T13:50:16 < englishman> locking tho
2019-07-09T13:52:55 < Thorn> are crimp contacts compatible between ph and pa?
2019-07-09T13:53:49 < englishman> what does the datasheet say?
2019-07-09T13:53:58 < englishman> lol idk man probably not
2019-07-09T13:55:15 < jly> greg has been busy it would seem
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2019-07-09T14:34:39 < zyp> anybody know any good software to log and graph realtime data?
2019-07-09T14:40:05 < Thorn> grafana + influxdb seems to be the standard make:r solution
2019-07-09T14:43:01 < effractur> or prometheus
2019-07-09T14:43:03 < effractur> or graphite
2019-07-09T14:43:42 < qyx> grafana + influx here
2019-07-09T14:44:00 < qyx> oh realtime
2019-07-09T14:44:35 < qyx> use ms powerbi!
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2019-07-09T14:52:53 < karlp> grafana+graphite
2019-07-09T14:53:02 < englishman> infucksdb+grafana is pretty powerful
2019-07-09T14:53:14 < karlp> they're all shit in different ways
2019-07-09T14:53:33 < karlp> grafana+whatever backend you can work with easiest.
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2019-07-09T14:53:46 < karlp> prometheus is meant to be nice, but it's a not necessarily the way you want to work.
2019-07-09T14:54:42 < englishman> http://i.imgur.com/tM1YG0A.jpg
2019-07-09T14:54:46 < englishman> Friday's weather
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2019-07-09T14:56:02 < qyx> great, did you import egypt into .ca?
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2019-07-09T14:58:52 < englishman> plz
2019-07-09T14:58:57 < englishman> Egypt would be 50+
2019-07-09T14:59:20 < qyx> we had 37 last week
2019-07-09T14:59:44 < qyx> our meteo org says this year's june was the hottest ever
2019-07-09T15:00:14 < qyx> since when temperature measurements are made here, thats about 300 years
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2019-07-09T15:02:43 < englishman> no concrete jungles 300 years ago
2019-07-09T15:04:19 < zyp> I don't think grafana&co are that suitable when we're talking realtime stuff, with measurements on the order of 100-1000Hz or so
2019-07-09T15:05:12 < qyx> yeah I realized realtime != time series
2019-07-09T15:05:22 < qyx> we did some realtime in powerbi though
2019-07-09T15:05:29 < qyx> idk what was the backend
2019-07-09T15:05:43 < zyp> never heard about powerbi, looking
2019-07-09T15:05:48 < qyx> microsfot
2019-07-09T15:06:21 < qyx> also with some streaming extension
2019-07-09T15:06:38 < zyp> business analytics, huh
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2019-07-09T17:31:56 < Laurenceb_> hi
2019-07-09T17:32:06 < Laurenceb_> anyone here any good with tex?
2019-07-09T17:32:11 < Laurenceb_> latex/whatever?
2019-07-09T17:32:26 < Laurenceb_> ! LaTeX Error: File `graphicx.sty' not found.
2019-07-09T17:32:32 < Laurenceb_> ^why would I get that error?
2019-07-09T17:32:54 < effractur> because you are missing the graphicx package
2019-07-09T17:32:57 < effractur> that you are including
2019-07-09T17:33:12 < Laurenceb_> hmm
2019-07-09T17:33:17 < Laurenceb_> thats not possible
2019-07-09T17:33:26 < Laurenceb_> maybe latex is looking in the wrong place
2019-07-09T17:33:40 < Laurenceb_> oh shit I know
2019-07-09T17:33:54 < Laurenceb_> TEXINPUTS has been edited
2019-07-09T17:34:27 < Laurenceb_> echo $TEXINPUTS./:~/Documents/Papers/Sensors/IOP
2019-07-09T17:35:08 < Laurenceb_> I dont see the error there tho, but thats got to be it surely?
2019-07-09T17:35:37 < Laurenceb_> sheeet maybe it needs to have the installation path
2019-07-09T17:35:38 < Laurenceb_> doh
2019-07-09T17:37:28 < Laurenceb_> ok wtf it works with TEXINPUTS blank
2019-07-09T17:38:25 < Laurenceb_> well - it finds graphicx before failing due to missing the proprietary shit
2019-07-09T17:41:32 < Laurenceb_> ok fixed it
2019-07-09T17:41:46 < Laurenceb_> TEXINPUTS needed a trailing : at the end
2019-07-09T17:49:16 < mawk> my neighbor just got stolen
2019-07-09T17:49:20 < mawk> they opened the door with a hammer
2019-07-09T17:49:28 < karlp> who did?
2019-07-09T17:49:30 < mawk> the police doesn't want to come
2019-07-09T17:49:42 < Laurenceb_> wait really?
2019-07-09T17:49:45 < Laurenceb_> drunqs?
2019-07-09T17:49:50 < mawk> I don't know, I came down 10 minutes after and they were already gone
2019-07-09T17:50:01 < sync> france.mp4
2019-07-09T17:50:03 < Laurenceb_> le amazing latex documentation
2019-07-09T17:50:07 < qyx> did they stole the neighbor?
2019-07-09T17:50:22 < mawk> lol
2019-07-09T18:04:11 < Cracki> maybe got deported
2019-07-09T18:04:23 < Cracki> nah, unlikely
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2019-07-09T18:18:28 < Steffanx> I bet it was the angst but from downstairs mawk
2019-07-09T18:18:40 < Steffanx> Angry guy*
2019-07-09T18:24:39 < mawk> there's only the father now, and he would've died from a heart attack doing it
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2019-07-09T19:45:21 < englishman> found lil'dongs 4 years ago today
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2019-07-09T19:46:59 < Laurenceb_> designated
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2019-07-09T20:15:39 < Laurenceb_> https://belledelphine.club/product/gamergirl-pee/
2019-07-09T20:16:54 < Cracki> ten times more herpes
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2019-07-09T20:23:57 < antto> should i open this url?
2019-07-09T20:24:31 < antto> a red light in my brain blinks "nope, nope, nope"
2019-07-09T20:25:45 < Cracki> it'll look cute, like you opened the website of an 8 year old girl
2019-07-09T20:25:58 < Cracki> except the wares are as advertised
2019-07-09T20:26:29 < antto> why would an 8 year old girl have a website?
2019-07-09T20:27:33 < Cracki> she's not, but that's how she markets herself
2019-07-09T20:27:46 < Cracki> would you be more comfortable with a screenshot?
2019-07-09T20:27:56 < antto> yes ;P~
2019-07-09T20:28:18 < antto> she markets herself? is this some pr0n sh*t?
2019-07-09T20:28:21 < Cracki> there's no way to avoid the pink background and the glass jar that looks like it's filled with marmelade
2019-07-09T20:28:27 < Cracki> I think so
2019-07-09T20:28:36 < Cracki> no fucking clue who she is, except some gamer girl
2019-07-09T20:28:39 < antto> grate
2019-07-09T20:29:00 < antto> well, she'll attract lots of visitors then
2019-07-09T20:29:36 < Cracki> you can be sure some degenerates will offer her more than the asking price of 9999 bucks
2019-07-09T20:29:57 < Cracki> oh, the site is completely fake apparently
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2019-07-09T20:31:03 < Cracki> who's willing to bet some deranged basement dwellign reddit dweeb is gonna break into her home at night, tie her down, and use a catheter
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2019-07-09T20:41:35 < fenugrec> Hi, what is ##stm32's favorite panel-mount, sealed connector in the 4-10 contact range ? cannon plug / circular MIL-std are cool but expensive
2019-07-09T20:42:08 < fenugrec> automotive stuff ?
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2019-07-09T20:43:29 < aandrew> yeah I like the mil spec circular connectors. ugly but rugged
2019-07-09T20:46:45 < aandrew> gah, found another one of those fucking "carge only" micro usb cables
2019-07-09T20:46:55 < aandrew> took the scissors to it like the others
2019-07-09T20:48:53 < antto> hot-snotted header pinz
2019-07-09T20:49:23 < antto> #ghetto-electronics
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2019-07-09T21:46:14 < qyx> fenugrec: metric M12 ftw
2019-07-09T21:46:22 < qyx> IP rating even when unmated
2019-07-09T21:50:02 < Cracki> M12 +1
2019-07-09T21:52:20 < Cracki> there are 4-pair ones supporting ethernet
2019-07-09T21:52:45 < Cracki> wew Cat. 6A
2019-07-09T21:54:13 < Cracki> in case you need to stream uncompressed 4K porn in the operator cabin of your BAGGER 288
2019-07-09T21:55:26 < Ultrasauce> you mean you don't
2019-07-09T22:01:29 < Ultrasauce> hm those are pretty pricey too
2019-07-09T22:27:54 -!- Laurenceb_ [80f3021d@128.243.2.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-07-09T22:31:57 < zyp> Cracki, also 2-pair ones
2019-07-09T22:32:06 < Cracki> saw them too yes
2019-07-09T22:32:27 < zyp> we're using those for workstuff
2019-07-09T22:32:43 < zyp> IIRC those are D-coded, and the 4-pair ones are X-coded
2019-07-09T22:33:21 < fenugrec> qyx, looks sweet, thanks
2019-07-09T22:33:58 < zyp> I'm not sure M12 are my favorite though
2019-07-09T22:34:15 < zyp> I don't have experience with enough alternatives to tell :)
2019-07-09T22:35:07 < zyp> they're kinda tedious to mate/unmate
2019-07-09T22:35:48 < Thorn> are china t12 stations using m12 too?
2019-07-09T22:35:57 < zyp> probably not
2019-07-09T22:36:26 < zyp> IIRC those are using something looking like old CB microphone connectors, whatever they're called
2019-07-09T22:38:16 < zyp> semi-related: I recently got some IP67 RJ45 connectors from china: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Fvch3.jpg
2019-07-09T22:38:57 < Ultrasauce> I have a bunch of those, they are pretty ok
2019-07-09T22:39:01 < zyp> benefit is you can still plug normal cables into them
2019-07-09T22:39:12 < zyp> if you don't need the waterproofing during use
2019-07-09T22:40:14 < zyp> I've considered cutting the threads off one of my M12 plugs, because I'm tired of screwing it in and out everytime I move it between devices
2019-07-09T22:40:24 < zyp> it's the one I use to access my command shell
2019-07-09T22:46:47 < qyx> zyp: there are "fast-locking" M12 connectors
2019-07-09T22:47:00 < qyx> they have semi-threaded threads
2019-07-09T22:47:13 < qyx> so you can mate/unmate with a half-twist
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2019-07-09T22:49:42 < Cracki> ze german shows you push-pull fast locking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ41oRb6DnE
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2019-07-09T22:49:53 < Thorn> like bayonet?
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2019-07-09T22:50:46 < Cracki> looks like press fit, germans germaning
2019-07-09T22:51:00 < Cracki> ah, some snappy thing
2019-07-09T22:51:03 < Cracki> like gardena
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2019-07-09T22:51:44 < Cracki> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51mCh3W1n2L._SX425_.jpg
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2019-07-09T22:52:57 < Cracki> here's their half-thread thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP8T202A78g
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2019-07-09T22:53:40 < Cracki> half + half is fast, anything else needs a healthy wrist
2019-07-09T22:54:16 < qyx> yeah
2019-07-09T22:55:29 < mawk> lol the windows 95 UI in the video
2019-07-09T22:55:49 < Cracki> that's very nineties
2019-07-09T22:56:00 < Cracki> people on tv would say "MAZ ab!" and shit like this would play
2019-07-09T22:56:15 < Cracki> (= "play the magnetic recording")
2019-07-09T22:56:47 < Cracki> oh that's actually w98, at the least
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2019-07-09T22:58:24 < Cracki> the title bar gradient indicates winxp
2019-07-09T22:59:55 < Cracki> (or 2k)
2019-07-09T23:00:43 < qyx> win98 had the gradient too
2019-07-09T23:00:59 < Cracki> yes but 98 didn't go quite as pale blue
2019-07-09T23:01:18 < qyx> you know you can configure the colors
2019-07-09T23:01:31 < Cracki> ah, those were the times! companies still had money to buy a brit and voice their stuff
2019-07-09T23:01:45 < Cracki> because the natives had AWFUL pronunciation
2019-07-09T23:01:53 < Cracki> you know there were defaults
2019-07-09T23:02:07 < Cracki> and anyone who didn't use a default definitely used something that caused eye cancer
2019-07-09T23:02:29 < Cracki> also w98 had darker and grayer window-gray
2019-07-09T23:02:56 < Cracki> 2k/xp went for a slightly red/orangeish and lighter tone
2019-07-09T23:03:45 < Cracki> http://actsofvolition.com/images/screenshots/Display-95-through-XP.png
2019-07-09T23:04:31 < Cracki> trust me, I've stared at a lot of pixels in my life
2019-07-09T23:09:43 < Cracki> lol it's 2/3 intensity (gamma 2.2), 5% saturation, 2 parts red 1 part yellow
2019-07-09T23:22:55 < Thorn> in order to gap an E style core I don't actually need to grind it? can I just glue something between the halves?
2019-07-09T23:23:08 < qyx> you order a gapped core
2019-07-09T23:23:32 < qyx> also, the gap should be only in the center
2019-07-09T23:31:48 < Cracki> cardboard seems to do the job http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Workshop/advice/coils/gap/index.html
2019-07-09T23:34:12 < Cracki> the ends should still meet, so just sticking cardboard in there might prevent that
2019-07-09T23:46:33 < basker> hello, i've a nucleo-746zg and would like connect a armfly ad7606 using parallel mode. I found some doc about use fsmc to do it, however, in cubemx the fsmc is already used by ethernet
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2019-07-09T23:47:14 < basker> could i use ad7606 and ethernet with this board?
2019-07-09T23:47:37 < basker> i'm begginer with stm32
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2019-07-09T23:53:53 < zyp> qyx, yeah, some of the ones I've got are some speedcon shit, IME the half threads just increase the risk of misthreading
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2019-07-09T23:54:51 < zyp> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAqbNYg5c3g <- this shit
2019-07-09T23:59:29 < englishman> https://www.redhat.com/en/about/press-releases/ibm-closes-landmark-acquisition-red-hat-34-billion-defines-open-hybrid-cloud-future
2019-07-09T23:59:35 < englishman> $34b for lunix
--- Day changed Wed Jul 10 2019
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2019-07-10T00:05:14 < specing> I hope we'll have mass market POWER9 workstations again
2019-07-10T00:05:19 < specing> ppc*
2019-07-10T00:05:39 < specing> they should release a <$200  power9 cpu and a <$200 motherboard for it
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2019-07-10T00:10:37 < Thorn> basker: ethernet doesn't use fsmc, it may conflicts with it (i.e. use same pins). if there's no remapping available you can always use gpio+dma+timer (or even read gpio in.a loop)
2019-07-10T00:13:07 < Thorn>  basker: and if you're not using ethernet you may be able to simply ignore it (as long as the PHY isn't driving any signals you're using)
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2019-07-10T00:18:37 < basker> Thorn, i would like use ethernet to communicate with matlab... i try remap this pins
2019-07-10T00:19:12 < basker> Thorn, thank you
2019-07-10T00:19:13 < aandrew> basker: I have a few designs with FMC+ethernet, what is your specific question?
2019-07-10T00:19:23 < aandrew> both of them use RMII though
2019-07-10T00:21:45 < qyx> also, from the other side
2019-07-10T00:21:57 < qyx> basker: how much samples per second do you need on the AD7606?
2019-07-10T00:22:19 < qyx> it supports a SPI compatible interface too
2019-07-10T00:22:35 < basker> My question was about the possibility to use fsmc on ad7606 and ethernet at the same time
2019-07-10T00:22:45 < qyx> I know
2019-07-10T00:23:13 < basker> qyx, i'm begginer... i think thas is easily use with parralel mode
2019-07-10T00:23:22 < qyx> but there are other possibilities to solve the primary problem
2019-07-10T00:23:39 < basker> some suggestions?
2019-07-10T00:23:41 < qyx> as Thorn says, it may or may not be possible to use both at the same time
2019-07-10T00:24:13 < Thorn> SPI should be easier than FSMC
2019-07-10T00:24:21 < qyx> yes
2019-07-10T00:24:24 < basker> hmm
2019-07-10T00:24:52 < qyx> If I didn't need bambillion samples per second, I would go with SPI
2019-07-10T00:25:05 < qyx> it can be served by DMA
2019-07-10T00:25:27 < Cracki> so, how many samples do you need
2019-07-10T00:25:45 < qyx> even if you use 200ksps at all 8 channels
2019-07-10T00:25:50 < qyx> (max spec of the chip)
2019-07-10T00:25:56 < qyx> thats only about 25Msps
2019-07-10T00:25:59 < Cracki> oh, that's relaxed
2019-07-10T00:26:03 < qyx> which should be easily doable
2019-07-10T00:26:06 < basker> using SPI, could i reach ~10k samples per second
2019-07-10T00:26:11 < qyx> of course
2019-07-10T00:26:22 < basker> sounds good for me
2019-07-10T00:26:46 < qyx> it seems to have two data lines
2019-07-10T00:27:24 < zyp> I did layout for a design using rmii and fsmc before
2019-07-10T00:27:48 < zyp> f407, IIRC they had to go up to qfp144 to avoid pin conflicts
2019-07-10T00:28:15 < zyp> so it's doable just fine on high pin count packages, but harder on smaller
2019-07-10T00:28:17 < Thorn> I need to do sdram+rmii+ltdc (565) soon
2019-07-10T00:28:36 < Thorn> with qfp176 most likely
2019-07-10T00:28:47 < zyp> framebuffer in sdram?
2019-07-10T00:28:53 < Cracki> ethernet is 10/100, so at 16 bit sampling, that's 6.25 million samples per second the ethernet limits you to
2019-07-10T00:28:55 < Thorn> yeah
2019-07-10T00:28:58 < Cracki> or worse
2019-07-10T00:29:07 < zyp> sounds fun
2019-07-10T00:29:29 < Thorn> and probably also lvds
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2019-07-10T00:33:53 < basker> i will read some papers about how to do it using SPI
2019-07-10T00:34:10 < basker> thank you all
2019-07-10T00:34:20 < qyx> hints: the AD needs SCLK, so SPI master mode
2019-07-10T00:34:29 < qyx> probably SPI master receive only mode
2019-07-10T00:34:48 < qyx> if there are two data outputs, you may want to use two SPI peripherals together
2019-07-10T00:35:01 < basker> hmm
2019-07-10T00:35:13 < qyx> maybe check QSPI peripheral if there is some mode which suits you
2019-07-10T00:35:23 < qyx> it has up to 4 data lines
2019-07-10T00:38:10 < basker> qyx, i did not know that, but i found a nice paper from st
2019-07-10T00:39:17 < Cracki> just curious... parallel could be done without a particular peripheral, yes?
2019-07-10T00:39:52 < qyx> probably yes
2019-07-10T00:40:20 < qyx> timer IC/EXTI or whatever as a DMA request, DMA directly from the GPIO
2019-07-10T00:40:28 < Cracki> supposes that you have a complete port to spare... but that's true for fsmc as well
2019-07-10T00:40:31 < qyx> or even DCMI would work in arbitrary-data mode
2019-07-10T00:40:45 < qyx> like for JPEG cams
2019-07-10T00:40:58 < Cracki> ic
2019-07-10T00:41:14 < Cracki> i'm in the datashit of that adc rn
2019-07-10T00:42:11 < qyx> I just scrolled over it from top to bottom
2019-07-10T00:42:38 < Cracki> with some bit fiddling operations, one might even read those two lines as a single dspi
2019-07-10T00:43:04 < Cracki> the first half of the channels shows up on miso 1, the other half on miso 2
2019-07-10T00:43:13 < Cracki> (doutA, doutB)
2019-07-10T00:43:54 < Cracki> still unclear why they say "results FIRST appear on [doutA]"
2019-07-10T00:43:57 < qyx> oh wait
2019-07-10T00:44:22 < qyx> if you clock 128 clocks in, you will get all channels on a single line
2019-07-10T00:44:31 < Cracki> figure 46
2019-07-10T00:44:36 < Cracki> uh
2019-07-10T00:44:49 < Cracki> lol yeah, apparently so
2019-07-10T00:45:08 < Cracki> neat
2019-07-10T00:45:14 < qyx> yeah, the paragraph before the figure
2019-07-10T00:46:07 < basker> I need to go to the bakery :) i'll be back later, thanks guys
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2019-07-10T00:56:58 < Laurenceb> <Thorn> why do flybacks have such low frequency?
2019-07-10T00:57:07 < Laurenceb> talking of which, has anyone seen flyback recently?
2019-07-10T00:57:15 < Laurenceb> did he die of terminal autism?
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2019-07-10T01:03:14 < aandrew> huh that AD7606 is an interesting device
2019-07-10T01:03:16 < aandrew> what are you using it for bas
2019-07-10T01:03:20 < aandrew> bah he's gone
2019-07-10T01:03:51 < qyx> it is also $$$
2019-07-10T01:04:22 < aandrew> I bet
2019-07-10T01:04:39 < aandrew> mind you the digitizer I'm using in this design right now is $80 ea and there are 5 of them per board
2019-07-10T01:06:12 < Cracki> breakouts for the chip are ~30-50 bucks on ali so it's probably around your 80 sourced properly
2019-07-10T01:06:44 < Cracki> oh, found one for ~20 bucks
2019-07-10T01:07:31 < Thorn> it's weird that ardweenies discovered it at all
2019-07-10T01:08:48 < Cracki> uh, mouser parametric search, 16 bit 8 ch, who's left is AD maxim mcp and TI
2019-07-10T01:09:27 < Cracki> and the uppermost "series" listed is ad7606 (thanks alphabetic sort)
2019-07-10T01:10:20 < Cracki> maybe someone thought, gee, wouldn't it be nice to have more than 10 bits
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2019-07-10T01:15:09 < Cracki> what surprises me is that it's not the cheapest for those parameters
2019-07-10T01:21:48 < Laurenceb> LSM6DSR looks good
2019-07-10T01:26:38 < Laurenceb> almost good enough to detect earths rotation
2019-07-10T01:30:01 < Cracki> which is 0.004 dps
2019-07-10T01:32:29 < Cracki> that's 1 LSB, without taking noise into account
2019-07-10T01:33:27 < Cracki> and you have 0.005 dps/celsius level change
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2019-07-10T02:04:25 < mawk> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/07/raspberry-pi-4-uses-incorrect-usb-c-design-wont-work-with-some-chargers/
2019-07-10T02:04:28 < mawk> englishman ^
2019-07-10T02:12:12 < antto> does the U in USB mean anything?
2019-07-10T02:12:57 < antto> Ugh Stupid Bus
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2019-07-10T02:44:29 < englishman> mawk: yes
2019-07-10T02:44:30 < englishman> fail
2019-07-10T02:45:21 < englishman> I got my hands on some of that new cypress psoc that comes preprogrammed for all that usb pd shit
2019-07-10T02:45:48 < englishman> they hide all the psoc shit from you so you never even know it's there
2019-07-10T02:45:58 < englishman> ideal psoc use case
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2019-07-10T04:35:12 < bitmask> sunnu bitch
2019-07-10T04:47:55 < jly> anime;
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2019-07-10T06:21:24 < ColdKeyboard> Is there an open-source software for recording/graphing data from DIY current/power meters?
2019-07-10T06:21:29 < ColdKeyboard> Basically I want to record voltage over time and plot/analyze it in some SW. Is there an open-source recommendation that uses some standard input format?
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2019-07-10T08:09:42 < qyx> ColdKeyboard: we talked about such things yesterday, I would use something like grafana+influxdb
2019-07-10T08:09:47 < qyx> or the other possibilities mentioned
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2019-07-10T09:02:36 < fenugrec> ColdKeyboard, recording: sigrok ? graphing : *office-calc ?
2019-07-10T09:03:10 < fenugrec> or Octave for pro math
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2019-07-10T09:49:16 < zyp> yeah, for stuff like a power meter where you just want to track energy usage with minute resolution or so, grafana+influxdb or another backend would be good
2019-07-10T09:50:38 < zyp> the discussion yesterday was me wanting something to graph stuff with millisecond resolution, which requires different solutions
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2019-07-10T11:09:37 < dongs> i wanna setup something like that cuz the graphs look so cute but I donno what the fuck i would be graphing
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2019-07-10T11:12:29 < qyx> number of your wc visits
2019-07-10T11:12:41 < dongs> my solar thing has a USB-B port on it
2019-07-10T11:14:03 < dongs> https://www.kyocera.co.jp/solar/pvh/customer/download/pmd47b.html
2019-07-10T11:14:14 < dongs> lmao windows 98SE installer
2019-07-10T11:22:01 < jly> Oh wow
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2019-07-10T11:32:12 < dongs> oh shit, my USB-C implementation is fail too
2019-07-10T11:32:20 < dongs> i didnt put any Rd on CC1/CC2 at all
2019-07-10T11:32:27 < dongs> i guess ill add taht to next board revision
2019-07-10T11:34:22 < rajkosto> dongs failed harder than raspbi
2019-07-10T11:34:24 < rajkosto> who would have thought
2019-07-10T11:34:29 < dongs> :D
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2019-07-10T11:37:38 < dongs> anyway this thing is just to verify other shit works, i expected a 2nd revision anyway
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2019-07-10T12:03:41 < Thorn> nobody expects the 2nd revision
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2019-07-10T12:19:41 < rajkosto> Cracki, fuckin math yo
2019-07-10T12:19:48 < rajkosto> https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/3210725/weighting-a-cubic-hermite-spline
2019-07-10T12:20:29 < rajkosto> i need to convert a cubic spline segment defined by the "power coefficients" (A,B,C,D) into a bezier segment (defined by the 2 tangents and their weights)
2019-07-10T12:21:01 < rajkosto> thats not my question
2019-07-10T12:21:16 < rajkosto> but its the outputs i need to generate (Arrive tangent&its weight, Leave tangent&its weight)
2019-07-10T12:21:43 < rajkosto> the P0, P3 points remain the same from the power coefficients i have (since its just D)
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2019-07-10T12:42:53 < karlp> zyp: for "realtime" I've used kst2 in the past, it's what I fed most of my swo data too for plotting and doing maths on, but it's kinda gross.
2019-07-10T12:43:03 < karlp> like, it's better than anything else I could get up and running, but...
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2019-07-10T12:52:40 < sync> haha karlp I had exactly the same experience
2019-07-10T12:54:07 < sync> zyp: I fire my smartmeter data into grafana with 100ms resolution, so far it seems fine
2019-07-10T12:56:16 < canton7> Quick question: I've got an STM32F411, connected to 2 separate parallel buses. I want to use DMA to push data out over those buses. Only DMA2 can communicate with GPIO, and only TIM1 can request DMA2, which is a problem because I really need to have one timer per parallel bus. From the reference manual, it looks like I might be able to set up one o
2019-07-10T12:56:16 < canton7> f the other timers to trigger one of the capture/compare channels on TIM1, and use that to generate a DMA request. I'm effectively proxying one timer through a CC channel on TIM in order to reach DMA2. Does anyone know whether this is actually possible, or have I misunderstood?
2019-07-10T12:56:23 < zyp> sure, but my data arrives an order of magnitude or two faster than that
2019-07-10T12:56:42 < karlp> I was doing ~5khz to kst2 no problems.
2019-07-10T12:57:00 < karlp> upgrdman's java thing is meant to be for this too :)
2019-07-10T12:57:37 < karlp> sync: it was nice in the "no programming required" but the complete lack of documentation is rather tedious
2019-07-10T12:57:45 < karlp> it feels like it has so much potential
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2019-07-10T13:00:41 < zyp> yeah, kst2 looks like the sort of stuff I'm looking for
2019-07-10T13:02:32 < karlp> i too was curious why more of this sort of sw wasn't available.
2019-07-10T13:02:33 < sync> yeah, karlp, although it kinda seems abandoned
2019-07-10T13:03:03 < karlp> I remember last time  I was looking at it, someone had updated all the docs, but it's sort of also int hat "still works, nothing to do" box I guess.
2019-07-10T13:03:12 < karlp> or, "all the thigns left to do are enormous"
2019-07-10T13:03:39 < sync> what kind of pissed me off is that it cannot do multi Y axis plots
2019-07-10T13:05:10 < karlp> maybe you shoudl use digikey iot studio!
2019-07-10T13:05:35 < karlp> I'm sure that will make your teeth whiter as well.
2019-07-10T13:09:41 < Thorn> canton7: TIM1 has multiple DMA requests (update, CC1...4) connected to different streams you can enable/disable those separately
2019-07-10T13:09:46 < zyp> so okay, how do I get live data into kst? everything just talks about opening files
2019-07-10T13:10:24 < qyx> canton7: interesting, I think if you gate the two timers, the synchronization will make your solution void, ie. you can achieve the same using two separate CC triggers of the same timer (TIM1)
2019-07-10T13:10:44 < qyx> why do you need two separate timers?
2019-07-10T13:11:21 < karlp> zyp: for me at least, I was streaming from SWO, so I just wrote that to a file and let kst2 read it.
2019-07-10T13:11:41 < zyp> how does streaming work? does it tail the file?
2019-07-10T13:11:48 < karlp> don't care, just worked :)
2019-07-10T13:12:08 < karlp> you can have it do the whole file, or only last x thousand  rows or watever too
2019-07-10T13:12:25 < qyx> kst is the kde/Qt graphing thing?
2019-07-10T13:12:33 < zyp> apparently
2019-07-10T13:12:46 < karlp> developed under the kde project hosting at least, which is worse than sourceforge.
2019-07-10T13:12:56 < zyp> haha
2019-07-10T13:13:05 < zyp> is it possible to be worse than sourceforge? :)
2019-07-10T13:13:10 < karlp> might explain why it's "strange" to normal people.
2019-07-10T13:13:30 < karlp> zyp:sure! some of the c# hellwholes I visited on an old job were truly vile.
2019-07-10T13:13:55 < Steffanx> Should use upgrdman's tool...
2019-07-10T13:14:53 < canton7> Thorn, sure, but I need to run the two parallel ports completely independently (different speeds, running at different times). For one of them, I can use TIM1 and UP/CCx just fine, but I'm trying to come up with a way of triggering DMA2 from another timer for the second parallel port
2019-07-10T13:16:34 < Thorn> you may need to look at something more advanced than f411 then
2019-07-10T13:18:49 < zyp> canton7, may I ask what you're doing?
2019-07-10T13:19:09 < canton7> qyx, what exactly do you mean by "gate the two timers"? My issue with just using different CC's on TIM1 is that the two parallel ports are running at completely different speeds, and at different times
2019-07-10T13:19:40 < qyx> canton7: timer gating is using trgi/trgo to sync two timers
2019-07-10T13:19:57 < Thorn> canton7: also look at fsmc/fmc/dcmi/ltdc
2019-07-10T13:20:00 < qyx> for example for the purpose you described
2019-07-10T13:20:10 < Thorn> all can be used to drive a parallel bus
2019-07-10T13:27:20 < canton7> zyp, sure I'll expand. I'm talking to a screen using a parallel bus (for speed). I'm also triggering some stepper motor drivers. The stepper motor drivers are connected to SPI, but have a separate CS line each. It's a bit tricky to get the timing right on them, but I've got TIM1 set up so that 1) CC1 triggers a DMA request which disables the CS lin
2019-07-10T13:27:21 < canton7> e for the previous stepper, 2) CC2 triggers a DMA request which enables the CS line for the next stepper, 3) UP triggers an SPI transfer. That is repeated once for each driver. That's all fine, and working. Due to a change in requirements, I've now got to get DMA transfers to the screen over the parallel bus working. My understanding is that the wa
2019-07-10T13:27:21 < canton7> y to do that is to use a timer to toggle the clock line on the bus, and also to send DMA requests to push the next byte of data onto the bus. Only TIM1 can trigger DMA2 transfers to GPIO, but I can't alter the frequency, period, or CC1 or CC2 on TIM, as that's all tied up driving the steppers. However I'm wondering whether I can trigger TIM1's CC4 
2019-07-10T13:27:21 < canton7> from another timer, and use CC4 to trigger a DMA request, independently of everything else that TIM1's doing at the same time
2019-07-10T13:27:50 < canton7> qyx, gotcha, thanks
2019-07-10T13:27:55 < canton7> Thorn, I'll have a look at those, cheers
2019-07-10T13:28:25 < zyp> canton7, sounds unlikely
2019-07-10T13:29:29 < zyp> also, using DMA to bitbang a parallel interface towards a lcd sounds like a bad approach, fsmc would be more suitable
2019-07-10T13:30:23 < zyp> assuming it's one of those lcds with a sram-like interface
2019-07-10T13:30:59 < dongs> maybe hes buttbanging RGB interface
2019-07-10T13:31:04 < dongs> which is even worse, jsut use fucking LDTC
2019-07-10T13:31:04 < zyp> otherwise if it's a lcd with a parallel pixel data + sync lines, ltdc would be the right solution
2019-07-10T13:31:10 < dongs> er ltdc yea
2019-07-10T13:33:10 < zyp> I'm not sure using timer events to trigger DMA to bitbang CC lines is the sanest approach either, why are you not using output capture directly? :)
2019-07-10T13:33:27 < zyp> output compare*
2019-07-10T13:33:29 < canton7> It's one of these things: https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2/116/DT018ATFT-v10-221368.pdf
2019-07-10T13:34:27 < zyp> ah, parallel pixel data
2019-07-10T13:34:37 < zyp> so look into using LTDC for that
2019-07-10T13:35:09 < dongs> thats not rgb prallel tho
2019-07-10T13:35:13 < dongs> thats  fsmc
2019-07-10T13:35:20 < canton7> zyp, I need to output the sequence 1) CS1 low, 2) spi transfer, 3) CS1 high, 4) CS2 low, 5) spi transfer, 6) CS2 high, repeat for CS3, CS4 and CS5. Can you do that just with output captures?
2019-07-10T13:35:42 < dongs> wait mcu 18 bit
2019-07-10T13:35:44 < dongs> what teh shit
2019-07-10T13:35:54 < karlp> 5 chipselects? really?
2019-07-10T13:36:11 < canton7> Yes, 5 steppers, all driven together
2019-07-10T13:36:38 < canton7> zyp, thanks, I'll dig into LTDC. Annoyingly I don't think the F411 has one of those
2019-07-10T13:36:58 < qyx> wait what
2019-07-10T13:37:19 < qyx> just fire an interrupt, toggle CS pin, send SPI data, toggle another one
2019-07-10T13:37:38 < canton7> the timing's too tight - I can't afford the time it takes to handle the interrupt
2019-07-10T13:37:51 < qyx> or is there a requirement to super-accurately-microsecond-fine-precision driving?
2019-07-10T13:38:06 < qyx> the SPI transfer takes some time
2019-07-10T13:38:18 < qyx> how can you even do tight timing over SPI
2019-07-10T13:38:39 < qyx> like, wtf
2019-07-10T13:38:53 < zyp> what sort of steppers are those? the ones I've worked with have SPI interfaces that accesses all of them at the same time
2019-07-10T13:39:29 < zyp> i.e. I had six steppers chained, so for every byte I wanted to send to a stepper I sent six bytes
2019-07-10T13:39:38 < dongs> yeah isnt taht how it usuall works
2019-07-10T13:39:48 < dongs> and thre might be a global 'latch' to accept hte inputs
2019-07-10T13:39:57 < dongs> so that they're synched
2019-07-10T13:40:07 < dongs> but separate cs for each thing sounds pretty retarded
2019-07-10T13:40:22 < zyp> yeah
2019-07-10T13:40:37 < qyx> I would expect the same thing
2019-07-10T13:40:48 < qyx> like with multichannel adc/dac
2019-07-10T13:40:52 < canton7> qyx, the DMA solution works quite nicely, I need to involve the CPU once, then all 5 steppers get driven together. If I involved the CPU after every SPI transfer, I'd 1) spend a lot of time in interrupts, and 2) have busy waits in order to meet the timing requirements around enabling/disabling the CS line
2019-07-10T13:41:03 < canton7> they're Allegro A4979's
2019-07-10T13:41:34 < dongs> it has SDO..
2019-07-10T13:41:38 < dongs> so they most definitely do chain
2019-07-10T13:42:06 < canton7> except, they start outputting one of their internal registers as soon as you start clocking in data
2019-07-10T13:42:24 < canton7> so sure you could chain them, but the input to the second one would be the internal registers of the first one
2019-07-10T13:42:25 < zyp> yes, but then you keep clocking in data
2019-07-10T13:42:47 < dongs> When writing to the serial register, data is received on the SDI pin and clocked through a shift register on the rising edge of the clock signal input on the SCK pin. STRn is normally held high, and is only brought low to initiate a serial transfer. No data is clocked through the shift register when STRn is high, thus allowing multiple SDI slave units to use common SDI, SCK, and SDO connections. Each 
2019-07-10T13:42:53 < dongs> independent slave requires a dedicated STRn connection.
2019-07-10T13:43:25 < qyx> so STR is actually a CS
2019-07-10T13:43:28 < canton7> yes
2019-07-10T13:43:47 < dongs> so if i understand this correctly waht tyou do is
2019-07-10T13:43:52 < dongs> connect them sdi->sdo 
2019-07-10T13:44:00 < dongs> clock out 16*5 bits
2019-07-10T13:44:06 < dongs> then raise str
2019-07-10T13:44:13 < zyp> canton7, you just keep clocking it through
2019-07-10T13:44:13 < dongs> which is connected to all of them 
2019-07-10T13:44:25 < dongs> and they all take new configuration at that moment
2019-07-10T13:44:39 < canton7> if you can find anywhere in that datasheet which says that the data clocked into SDI is then clocked out of SDO, you're doing better than me :)
2019-07-10T13:44:55 < qyx> usually thats the case
2019-07-10T13:44:58 < canton7> indeed
2019-07-10T13:45:29 < qyx> When STRn goes low to start a serial write, SDO comes out of its
2019-07-10T13:45:29 < qyx> high impedance state and outputs the serial register Fault Register
2019-07-10T13:45:29 < qyx> flag. This allows the main controller to poll the A4979 through
2019-07-10T13:45:30 < qyx> the serial interface to determine if a fault has been detected.
2019-07-10T13:45:36 < qyx> fuk allegro
2019-07-10T13:45:58 < zyp> no, that is perfectly fine
2019-07-10T13:46:01 < canton7> yep, it looks at the first few bits you clock in, and uses that to determine what's clocked out during the same transfer (each of the things it could clock out start with the same few bits)
2019-07-10T13:46:10 < zyp> oh
2019-07-10T13:47:35 < canton7> my life could be so much easier if they behaved sanely, and allowed you to chain them, I promise you
2019-07-10T13:47:35 < zyp> okay, that's just shitty design then
2019-07-10T13:47:45 < zyp> throw them out and get some decent stepper drivers instead
2019-07-10T13:48:25 < zyp> also, why are you using spi for stepping anyway, not step/dir?
2019-07-10T13:49:10 < canton7> I need to control some of the other internal registers, and read all of the fault into
2019-07-10T13:49:12 < canton7> *info
2019-07-10T13:49:36 < zyp> sure, but do you need to do that at the same rate you control stepping?
2019-07-10T13:49:53 < canton7> I mean yes, I could use SPI to configure it, then driver STEP to manually step it. That's the backup plan. But stepping them through SPI is working perfectly fine at the moment
2019-07-10T13:50:39 < zyp> yeah, except you run into overcomplicated DMA setups :)
2019-07-10T13:51:01 < canton7> there is that, yes :)
2019-07-10T13:51:57 < qyx> that allegro thing should be blacklisted in zypsnips
2019-07-10T13:52:15 < zyp> on my stepper stuff, I'm using spi to configure stuff like current setpoint and monitor the stepper drivers, but I control them by step/dir signals generated from a 100kHz timer interrupt
2019-07-10T13:52:43 < zyp> probably not the best approach either, but it's simple and works :)
2019-07-10T13:52:54 < zyp> which IMO is better than complicated and works
2019-07-10T13:57:43 < canton7> driving them solely over SPI saves 10 pins as well, which is not insignificant
2019-07-10T13:58:28 < qyx> better count your hair
2019-07-10T14:00:10 < canton7> Oh well, thanks for your help everyone!
2019-07-10T14:00:23 < dongs> get a simple CPLD in there
2019-07-10T14:00:27 < qyx> lol
2019-07-10T14:00:30 < dongs> if you really want precise timing
2019-07-10T14:00:34 < dongs> or are we done wiht that topic already
2019-07-10T14:01:12 < Thorn> I wanted to ask if an FPGA has been suggested already
2019-07-10T14:01:30 < dongs> you could work around the idiocy of their control interface
2019-07-10T14:01:50 < dongs> and simplify mcu interface significantly
2019-07-10T14:21:58 < Thorn> why did WebWench(tm) put 2 parallel 20A diodes into my 1A flyback?
2019-07-10T14:28:48 < Thorn> also why power the controller from the 3rd winding in a dc/dc flyback
2019-07-10T14:34:05 < qyx> probably because ldo is less efficient?
2019-07-10T15:08:37 -!- talsit [foobar@gromit.mixdown.ca] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-10T15:11:30 -!- tctw [~Tectu@82-197-160-105.init7.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-10T15:23:23 < Steffanx> WB tctw 
2019-07-10T15:23:33 < tctw> hi there
2019-07-10T15:23:48 < tctw> sup?
2019-07-10T15:24:12 < Steffanx> Sky is still there
2019-07-10T15:24:20 < tctw> good
2019-07-10T15:24:30 < tctw> it started raining exactly when I got out of the car @ gf's house
2019-07-10T15:24:33 < tctw> her father was preparing BBQ
2019-07-10T15:24:35 < tctw> he was not amused.
2019-07-10T15:24:41 < tctw> "You brought us rain"
2019-07-10T15:24:41 < tctw> :D
2019-07-10T15:29:03 < Steffanx> Sounds familiar
2019-07-10T15:33:07 -!- MrMobius [~default@c-73-134-82-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-10T15:37:11 < tctw> well
2019-07-10T15:46:46 < Steffanx> Very well
2019-07-10T16:04:45 < tctw> how's life?
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2019-07-10T16:23:51 < jpa-> hello
2019-07-10T16:44:42 < Steffanx> Hello
2019-07-10T16:44:58 < Steffanx> Life is good enough mr tctw 
2019-07-10T16:45:05 < Steffanx> There
2019-07-10T16:45:20 < Steffanx> ?
2019-07-10T16:53:30 < dongs> im gonna try and make an app with imgui
2019-07-10T16:57:06 < zyp> dear imgui?
2019-07-10T16:57:30 < dongs> yes
2019-07-10T16:57:49 < zyp> I dicked around with that a couple of months ago or so
2019-07-10T17:00:13 < dongs> i bet you loved it cuz its c++
2019-07-10T17:03:10 < jpa-> how would you guys do this in c++: i have a Config class i want to register update callbacks with. But when the listener dies, I need to destroy the callback. So something like   std::unique_ptr<Config::callback_handle> cb = config->listen(event, cb_function, ...);     seems reasonable, with the destructor unregistering
2019-07-10T17:04:03 < jpa-> but then how do i store the list of callbacks on the Config class side; my first intuition would be to make a linked list with pointers inside the callback_handle structs, but that seems quite C'ish and I don't know if there is anything in STL that would make it nicer
2019-07-10T17:04:51 < jpa-> i could also just store   std::vector<callback_handle*>   but then I have to linear search to remove when unregistering; and std::set is out because I need to keep them in order
2019-07-10T17:05:39 < dongs> aids::sorted_list<>
2019-07-10T17:05:50 < dongs> jpa, how the fuck does stl even work on mobile
2019-07-10T17:05:56 < dongs> err mobile = embedded
2019-07-10T17:05:57 < jpa-> no, i don't mean sorted, in the order i've inserted them, while having a fast way to remove a specific entry
2019-07-10T17:06:00 < dongs> isnt it bloated as fuck?
2019-07-10T17:06:10 < dongs> or is this on desktop
2019-07-10T17:06:16 < jpa-> well i'm pushing the 1MB flash limit.. :)
2019-07-10T17:06:20 < dongs> lolz
2019-07-10T17:06:33 < dongs> https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/akbnj8/blog_embedded_rust_experiments_is_my_stm32_mcu/ you should switch to rust
2019-07-10T17:06:38 < dongs> to make your shit even slower
2019-07-10T17:06:59 < jpa-> yeah, i've thought about it
2019-07-10T17:07:48 < jpa-> but with 80k lines of code already written in C++, it's not happening very soon
2019-07-10T17:08:26 < dongs> extern "C" {
2019-07-10T17:08:27 < dongs>     fn HAL_Init();
2019-07-10T17:08:27 < dongs>     fn HAL_IncTick();
2019-07-10T17:08:27 < dongs>     fn SystemClock_Config();
2019-07-10T17:08:28 < dongs> }
2019-07-10T17:08:30 < dongs> lol, rust
2019-07-10T17:08:37 < dongs> whats the fucking point
2019-07-10T17:09:22 < dongs> while rcc.cr.read().hserdy().bit_is_clear() {}
2019-07-10T17:09:27 < dongs> this kinda syntax also looks pretty gay
2019-07-10T17:09:51 < dongs> rcc.cr.modify(|_r, w| w.pllon().set_bit());
2019-07-10T17:09:56 < dongs> this is straight up looney shit category
2019-07-10T17:10:00 < dongs> the fuck is this retarded syntax lmao
2019-07-10T17:10:41 < dongs> what does zyp have to say about this abortion
2019-07-10T17:11:00 < jpa-> yeah, they've gone full-ocd on that, to the extent that it is unusable
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2019-07-10T17:16:29 < veverak> dongs: you don't use aids:: on embedded much
2019-07-10T17:16:31 < veverak> oh, std::
2019-07-10T17:16:52 < veverak> jpa-: the mechanism what you described is somethin that triggers my "why the fuck do you need it? you should not be needing it in first place"
2019-07-10T17:16:58 < jpa-> veverak: how so?
2019-07-10T17:17:23 < jpa-> how would you immediately apply config changes across the system?
2019-07-10T17:17:42 < veverak> my system usually looks like tree
2019-07-10T17:17:44 < veverak> so it's simple
2019-07-10T17:17:49 < veverak> you pass new config to the root of the tree
2019-07-10T17:17:52 < veverak> and it propagates it
2019-07-10T17:18:23 < jpa-> eh, so you just write a bunch of boilerplate everywhere? do you propagate every event to every single class every time?
2019-07-10T17:18:59 < veverak> yeah, I make it sure that it's clear how to propagation goes
2019-07-10T17:19:10 < veverak> thing is, it does not really results in a bunch of boilerplate
2019-07-10T17:20:09 < jpa-> my system isn't like that anyway, so no solution there; and i can't see much of an advantage of necessarily structuring systems like that
2019-07-10T17:20:13 < karlp> why do they someimtes use unsafe and sometimes not with that .modify(|_r, w|,... shits?
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2019-07-10T17:20:56 < veverak> jpa-: no magic mechanisms behind my back
2019-07-10T17:21:09 < veverak> low amount of magic, stuff is clear about what is going on
2019-07-10T17:21:41 < jpa-> veverak: so you consider event passing between classes "magic"?
2019-07-10T17:23:14 < veverak> no, I consider it magic when it's not clear it's happening and how it is happening
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2019-07-10T17:25:37 < jpa-> yeah, well it's quite obvious when you explicitly register the callback.
2019-07-10T17:25:55 < jpa-> i just don't want to bother with explicitly releasing it, as that's just asking for bugs
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2019-07-10T17:42:24 < jpa-> oh well, i went with the manually coded linked list
2019-07-10T17:45:03 < dongs> use glib
2019-07-10T17:45:07 < dongs> s_list_add()
2019-07-10T17:45:11 < dongs> s_list_loldongs
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2019-07-10T17:47:05 < jpa-> yeah, but mixing c++ and c like that gets nasty pretty quickly
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2019-07-10T17:48:44 < dongs> oh right that shit
2019-07-10T17:56:34 < veverak> jpa-: if thing is obvious only when explicitly used, it's failed
2019-07-10T17:56:39 < veverak> this is observer pattern
2019-07-10T17:56:53 < salcedo> does anyone use a more "sane' workflow for coding on stm32? i.e. gcc without ecraplse?
2019-07-10T17:57:03 < veverak> one thing I learned the hard way is better not to use, as it's brings more pain during debugging than necessary
2019-07-10T17:57:11 < veverak> salcedo: yup
2019-07-10T17:57:23 < veverak> salcedo: used makefile, now got cmake 
2019-07-10T17:57:29 < veverak> vim for editing the code
2019-07-10T17:57:31 < veverak> gdb for debugging
2019-07-10T17:57:38 < salcedo> i'm interested in stm32 but it's all a bit overwhelming right now. using vim and gdb would be WONDERFUL
2019-07-10T17:57:56 < salcedo> do you still use stmcubeMX or whatever it is to generate your setup code?
2019-07-10T17:58:03 < veverak> stm32cubemx -> generate code -> makfile
2019-07-10T17:58:14 < veverak> salcedo: I used to do it, moving from that now
2019-07-10T17:58:20 < veverak> it seems as reasonable for tart
2019-07-10T17:58:58 -!- Ha0hmaru [~Haohmaru@195.24.53.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-07-10T17:59:02 < salcedo> do you use any high level libraries or freertos type stuff?
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2019-07-10T17:59:26 < veverak> I avoid that
2019-07-10T18:00:07 < veverak> salcedo: only HAL and std:: stuff that does not use dynamic allocation
2019-07-10T18:00:13 < salcedo> ah
2019-07-10T18:00:41 < salcedo> does stm32cubemx generate code for a gcc/Makefile project or did you have to port it over from some other toolchain/IDE setup?
2019-07-10T18:00:52 < veverak> now, it generates makefiles
2019-07-10T18:01:09 < veverak> or, it used to before too...
2019-07-10T18:02:23 < salcedo> i just started using makefiles and avr-libc for avr and much prefer it over arduino IDE/arduino core/platformio
2019-07-10T18:02:48 < salcedo> platformio is nice though. but can reduce code size much more by getting rid of arduino core
2019-07-10T18:03:02 < karlp> you don't have to use arduinocore with platformio...
2019-07-10T18:03:34 < salcedo> karlp: true. but i don't really see the point.
2019-07-10T18:04:02 < karlp> then you've missed the point of pio I guess :)
2019-07-10T18:04:11 < karlp> perhaps https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-template ? 
2019-07-10T18:04:13 < salcedo> maybe i am. :)
2019-07-10T18:04:26 < karlp> if you only needed arduino, youcould just stay with arduino...
2019-07-10T18:06:07 < salcedo> need to provision some app database thing. brb!
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2019-07-10T18:25:18 < dongs> hmmm
2019-07-10T18:25:42 < dongs> so even with FIONREAD ther's no real equivalent of PeekNamedPipe() on lunix
2019-07-10T18:26:03 < dongs> if i actually want the data
2019-07-10T18:26:06 < dongs> and not just number of bytes
2019-07-10T18:34:25 < jpa-> with c stdio, you have ungetc() but even that's only guaranteed for one byte
2019-07-10T18:34:50 < dongs> i dont think that would even apply here
2019-07-10T18:35:00 < dongs> shit's using regular fd and read/write
2019-07-10T18:35:04 < dongs> so unbuffered shit
2019-07-10T18:35:11 < jpa-> yep
2019-07-10T18:37:14 < jpa-> apparently for sockets you have MSG_PEEK flag for recv() which causes it to not remove the data
2019-07-10T18:37:18 < jpa-> but for pipes not
2019-07-10T18:37:51 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3739769
2019-07-10T18:37:54 < bitmask> everyone download my remix
2019-07-10T18:41:54 < PaulFertser> I use a binder clip for that, and when printing I just attach it to the spool holder.
2019-07-10T18:43:57 < karlp> that's clearly not 3dprintery enough :)
2019-07-10T18:44:11 < karlp> you've gotta be finding uses for your printer!
2019-07-10T18:44:36 < PaulFertser> Yeah, so far I'm mostly failing.
2019-07-10T18:44:56 < karlp> that's why I don't have one yet :)
2019-07-10T18:45:28 < bitmask> meh they are fun
2019-07-10T18:45:33 < karlp> oh, I believe you :)
2019-07-10T18:45:37 < karlp> slow though :)
2019-07-10T18:45:43 < bitmask> yes
2019-07-10T18:45:45 < bitmask> very
2019-07-10T18:45:47 < bitmask> I have a few 40 hour prints to do
2019-07-10T18:47:58 < dongs> hmm can libusb open same device from a different process
2019-07-10T18:48:04 < dongs> for control transfers at least
2019-07-10T18:48:10 < dongs> i could do this with cyapi
2019-07-10T18:50:05 < dongs> https://www.edaboard.com/showthread.php?342135-Multiple-libusb_open-for-same-device
2019-07-10T18:50:08 < dongs> apparently it fails
2019-07-10T18:50:09 < dongs> thats kinda bad news
2019-07-10T18:50:30 < aandrew> dongs: IIRC you may need to be more explicit about which interface you want to claim
2019-07-10T18:50:39 < dongs> uh, its literally same device/same interface
2019-07-10T18:51:14 < dongs> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/49153357/is-it-possible-to-create-multiple-connection-instances-to-same-usb-device-using
2019-07-10T18:51:17 < dongs> hm this place asys you can
2019-07-10T18:51:21 < dongs> i guess i just have to write a test and try
2019-07-10T18:51:57 < dongs> fucking retards on dumbfuckoverlfow tho
2019-07-10T18:53:12  * karlp got some good postgres advice off loveoverflow today
2019-07-10T18:53:34 < dongs> > good > postgres pick one
2019-07-10T18:53:38 < dongs> i didnt know people still used that trash
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2019-07-10T18:53:56 < Cracki> why was that ever popular
2019-07-10T18:53:59 < karlp> what am I meant to use?
2019-07-10T18:54:05 < dongs> like literally anything but
2019-07-10T18:54:11 < dongs> is it even maintained anymore?
2019-07-10T18:54:18 < karlp> was it ever not?
2019-07-10T18:55:37 < dongs> https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=postgresql,mysql,sql%20server
2019-07-10T18:55:43 < dongs> looks dead to me
2019-07-10T18:55:55 < dongs> the dips are curious as fuck tho
2019-07-10T18:56:11 < dongs> like tehre's no sql questoins during xmas
2019-07-10T18:56:42 < dongs> and nov 20-26
2019-07-10T18:56:46 < dongs> wahts during those daets?
2019-07-10T18:58:05 < karlp> thanssgiving in the states
2019-07-10T18:58:20 < karlp> all th epeople who use these products use them in their dayjob
2019-07-10T18:59:45 < karlp> https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&q=%2Fm%2F05ynw,%2Fm%2F04y3k,%2Fm%2F0120vr,%2Fm%2F09gc20r postgres trending slightly up, others trending slightly down?
2019-07-10T19:01:38 < Thorn> postgresql is the best
2019-07-10T19:01:52 < dongs> not even
2019-07-10T19:02:34 < karlp> very happy to have it running on RDS trhough, instead of it being my fucking problem.
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2019-07-10T19:04:50 < Cracki> according to this, postgres' "advantage" of sql compliance doesn't even achieve full compliance, while mysql's downside is that it doesn't do full joins https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/sqlite-vs-mysql-vs-postgresql-a-comparison-of-relational-database-management-systems
2019-07-10T19:04:59 < Cracki> sounds to me like it's been hyped
2019-07-10T19:05:38 < Cracki> nobody celebrates its ease of use and they explicitly state that it's a memory hog
2019-07-10T19:07:11 < dongs> hmm i think i finally duplicated this dumb issue a customer is seeing on a remote site wiht my shit
2019-07-10T19:07:32 < dongs> but now that im driving it through libusb i need to rewrite my monitoring app that can query shit to use libusb AND hope that I can actually open same device at same time
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2019-07-10T19:51:54 < aandrew> you could do the really dumb way and use IPC to let one process talk to usb and proxy requests from the other process
2019-07-10T19:52:07 < aandrew> if you can't get the device opened with both processes
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2019-07-10T21:50:13 < salcedo> veverak: ok from what i'm reading so far. libopencm3 is like arduino core for avr?
2019-07-10T21:50:37 < salcedo> they're analogous
2019-07-10T21:50:53 < Steffanx> no, libopencm3 is not that
2019-07-10T21:52:23 < jpa-> you can get arduino core for stm32 if that's what you want
2019-07-10T21:52:35 < salcedo> no. i don't. i'm just saying
2019-07-10T21:52:37 < Steffanx> Is that what you want jpa-?
2019-07-10T21:52:38 < salcedo> arduino core is an api for avrs
2019-07-10T21:52:54 < salcedo> libopencm3 is a firmware library for arm microcontrollers
2019-07-10T21:53:15 < salcedo> so in that sense, they are kind of the same abstraction?
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2019-07-10T21:55:02 < Steffanx> Did you take a look at libopencm3 and the examples? Im pretty sure you'll see it's not " the same abstraction" 
2019-07-10T21:55:57 < salcedo> i'm speaking in a general sense
2019-07-10T21:56:36 < salcedo> libopencm3 is to stm32 as something like avr-libc, no?
2019-07-10T21:57:15 -!- c4017w_ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2019-07-10T21:57:16 < salcedo> and something like MightCore sits atop avr-libc. so they're not at the same "level" but both expose an API for working with their respective MCU
2019-07-10T21:57:31 < salcedo> *MightyCore
2019-07-10T21:59:59 < Cracki> you're right but that arduino comparison was received as an insult
2019-07-10T22:01:18 < Cracki> ST hats its own libraries. the old one was called stdperiph, the new one is called HAL
2019-07-10T22:01:37 < Cracki> *has
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2019-07-10T22:02:41 < Cracki> are you someone who wants to go the untrodden path, or do you want to just use stm32cubemx and HAL
2019-07-10T22:03:33 < mawk> there's also a set of libs called LL
2019-07-10T22:03:36 < mawk> which are lower level
2019-07-10T22:03:38 < mawk> from ST too
2019-07-10T22:03:50 < mawk> the name is well found, LL is for low level
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2019-07-10T22:06:15 < Cracki> the more complex the peripheral, the less likely it is that they bothered making LL apis for it
2019-07-10T22:09:36 < mawk> yeah I noticed that
2019-07-10T22:09:49 < mawk> for the new MDMA peripheral in H7 for instance
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2019-07-10T23:32:13 < Steffanx> hello kakimir
2019-07-10T23:32:29 < kakimir> hello master steff
2019-07-10T23:33:40 < kakimir> time for night ride>
2019-07-10T23:35:36 < Steffanx> nah, work tomorrow.
2019-07-10T23:36:06 < Steffanx> Some still do that ;)
2019-07-10T23:37:07 < kakimir> what do you mean
2019-07-10T23:37:19 < kakimir> I did 12.5hours today
2019-07-10T23:37:38 < kakimir> 11 before that and 16 before that
2019-07-10T23:37:56 < kakimir> tommorow maybe short day
2019-07-10T23:38:42 < kakimir> bbl>
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2019-07-10T23:46:16 < Steffanx> Hobby work you mean?
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--- Day changed Thu Jul 11 2019
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2019-07-11T01:07:53 < kakimir> yes hobby
2019-07-11T01:20:11 < kakimir> but no
2019-07-11T01:20:26 < kakimir> definition of hobby is it takes all your time and all your money
2019-07-11T01:21:48 < kakimir> sure if we concider that I'm probs spending time doing something that delays me landing better paying jobs
2019-07-11T01:24:31 < englishman> jobs suck tho
2019-07-11T01:26:33 < Thorn> how do you test a matching circuit for a chip transceiver like cc1101 etc. with a VNA? do you connect one port where the antenna output/input of the chip is supposed to be and another port to the antenna out? or what
2019-07-11T01:29:26 < Steffanx> Time to go back assembling englishman ?
2019-07-11T01:34:29 < kakimir> did you get rid of the machinery englishman?
2019-07-11T01:34:55 < englishman> no still have it
2019-07-11T01:35:05 < kakimir> no buyers?
2019-07-11T01:35:15 < englishman> well haven't really tried to sell it
2019-07-11T01:35:24 < englishman> it'll be in my new workshop before winter
2019-07-11T01:38:23 < kakimir> englishman electronics limited
2019-07-11T01:42:32 < englishman> these guys were about to spend a half million dollars on SAMTEC
2019-07-11T01:42:44 < englishman> i asked them to give me half to come up with a solution
2019-07-11T01:43:13 < englishman> let's see if I get the job
2019-07-11T02:01:47 < kakimir> sexy connectors
2019-07-11T02:02:34 < kakimir> did you come up with solution before saying them you will deliver solution for quarter million dollars?
2019-07-11T02:02:49 < kakimir> or are you in phase of figuring it out?
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2019-07-11T02:37:58 < salcedo> anyone use the black magic probe?
2019-07-11T02:39:28 < Laurenceb> I prefer spirit cooking and cheese pizza
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2019-07-11T02:40:08 < salcedo> i'm kind of interested to know what spirit cooking is.
2019-07-11T02:40:16 < salcedo> can you elaborate?
2019-07-11T02:41:04 < Thorn> salcedo: I built a clone years ago, used it a little, didn't like it, stopped using it
2019-07-11T02:42:10 < salcedo> Thorn: of the BMP?
2019-07-11T02:42:19 < Thorn> yes
2019-07-11T02:42:44 < salcedo> for someone on a poor man's budget like myself, what would you recommend is a good well rounded yet reasonably affordable programmer/debugger?
2019-07-11T02:42:45 < Thorn> I had to reconnect USB every time something went wrong
2019-07-11T02:42:53 < Laurenceb> salcedo: QAnon tier sillyness
2019-07-11T02:42:55 < Thorn> dunno if it has since been fixed
2019-07-11T02:43:36 < Thorn> salcedo: original definitely not counterfeit j-link v9.4 from aliexpress
2019-07-11T02:44:14 < Thorn> if it is the latest version make sure to open it and remove the jumper
2019-07-11T02:45:21 < salcedo> wouldn't it be kind of hard to distinguish counterfeit from original on a site like aliexpress where EVERY seller says "PART ORIGINAL REAL J-LINK AUTORIZE NOT COUNTERFITTING PART MADE REAL FOR PART"
2019-07-11T02:45:44 < Thorn> it's very easy actually
2019-07-11T02:49:51 < salcedo> why v9.4?
2019-07-11T02:49:58 < salcedo> and what's up with the jumper?
2019-07-11T02:50:34 < karlp> salcedo: anything wrong with jus tusing an stlink?
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2019-07-11T02:51:11 < turnip420> Is there a way to tell HAL to flip the SPI CS every x number of bytes 
2019-07-11T02:51:47 < turnip420> Because this LT DAC needs a CS toggle to load in shit, from the SPI input registers. And doing 4 seperate DMA transfers is really slow
2019-07-11T02:52:02 < turnip420> It's a 4 channel DAC
2019-07-11T02:53:19 < Laurenceb> 4chan DAC
2019-07-11T02:54:12 < salcedo> karlp: no idea.
2019-07-11T02:54:31 < karlp> salcedo:because you get one on every nucleo/disco board....
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2019-07-11T02:55:55 < salcedo> hahaha... i guess you have a point there :)
2019-07-11T02:56:02 < salcedo> my nucleo doesn't arrive for another week.
2019-07-11T02:56:36 < turnip420> lol
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2019-07-11T03:07:39 < turnip420> I just turned on the optomiser and now all my problems are gone
2019-07-11T03:08:29 < dongs> thorn, whats the jumper do?
2019-07-11T03:08:41 < dongs> and 9.4 is the shit with stm32f4?
2019-07-11T03:08:59 < Thorn> dongs: connects Vt to its own Vcc
2019-07-11T03:09:38 < Thorn> (I guess I should start putting resistors on Vt)
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2019-07-11T03:28:42 < mawk> that's not good turnip420 
2019-07-11T03:29:02 < mawk> don't quit here or we will all be very disappointed in you
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2019-07-11T03:55:06 < dongs> thorn, thats violating jlink spec anyway
2019-07-11T03:55:18 < dongs> i would never want Vt connected to3.3V or ahet ver
2019-07-11T03:55:23 < dongs> its always the 'target vcc'
2019-07-11T03:55:36 < dongs> used f or i/o level shifting and shit
2019-07-11T03:55:42 < dongs> (does clone trash even do that
2019-07-11T04:07:24 < Laurenceb> sheet I am too self aware to write promotional shit for werk
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2019-07-11T04:07:47 < Laurenceb> muh IOt, muh crowdsourcing, muh ubiquitous sensor networks, muh edge computing
2019-07-11T04:07:55 < mawk> hire me Laurenceb 
2019-07-11T04:08:00 < mawk> I'll open an antenna in netherlands
2019-07-11T04:08:11 < mawk> rent me an office and I'll do serious IRC research all day
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2019-07-11T04:29:56 < Laurenceb> nah I'm cool thanks
2019-07-11T04:30:06 < Laurenceb> 500 words of buzzword bingo done
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2019-07-11T05:58:47 < jly> hi tctw
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2019-07-11T06:42:46 < R2COM> sup guys
2019-07-11T06:43:09 < R2COM> watching car reviews for $200k motivates me to do some innovation after work hours
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2019-07-11T08:03:33 < qyx> hows Thorn's isolated flybuck?
2019-07-11T08:04:03 < qyx> I need  a 3 output 5V to 5V iso
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2019-07-11T09:14:17 < jpa-> salcedo: avr-libc provides libc but no hardware interfacing; libopencm3 provides hardware interfacing but no libc
2019-07-11T09:18:44 < Ha0hmaru> jpa- provides info but doesn't write your code for you
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2019-07-11T10:37:52 < qyx> should I fork and rename libopencm3 to libopencm7 if I want to use it on F7/H7?
2019-07-11T10:59:06 < Ha0hmaru> doesn't it support cortex M4 already?
2019-07-11T10:59:13 < Ha0hmaru> and yet they haven't renamed it
2019-07-11T11:00:05 < zyp> it's already renamed once, it used to be libopenstm32
2019-07-11T11:00:15 < Steffanx> I'd login to locm3gitter to irc ask in #libopencm3 . (Damn that locm3gitter thing is annoying)
2019-07-11T11:00:56 < Ha0hmaru> dafuq is that even?
2019-07-11T11:01:07 < Steffanx> Join the channel and you'll see
2019-07-11T11:01:13 < Ha0hmaru> nah
2019-07-11T11:01:21 < Ha0hmaru> i don't have to know everything
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2019-07-11T11:56:37 < benishor> what's a good linux ide for getting started with a stm32f746 disco board?
2019-07-11T11:59:13 < dongs> install win10, download keil
2019-07-11T12:00:50 < benishor> I said linux :|
2019-07-11T12:02:35 < Thorn> <dongs> I said keil
2019-07-11T12:03:51 < benishor> invalid answer
2019-07-11T12:04:02 < dongs> invalid request more like
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2019-07-11T12:10:36 < zyp> benishor, vim
2019-07-11T12:11:12 < Steffanx> TrueStudio by ST
2019-07-11T12:14:00 < benishor> zyp: an IDE is a bit different from a text editor
2019-07-11T12:14:12 < benishor> Steffanx: 10x, will give it a try
2019-07-11T12:21:37 < Steffanx> If you dont hate eclipse it's not that bad.
2019-07-11T12:25:22 < Ha0hmaru> benishor, have you looked at Code::Blocks, perhaps?
2019-07-11T12:26:35 < karlp> qyx: we've got no h7 yet, but there's plenty of f7 stuff already
2019-07-11T12:28:24 < benishor> Ha0hmaru: not really. I do have CLion and CrossStudio for ARM
2019-07-11T12:28:44 < benishor> and I was hoping there would be an easy way to get them set up for that
2019-07-11T12:28:53 < Ha0hmaru> wellz
2019-07-11T12:29:21 < Ha0hmaru> IMO with each IDE, you just gotta learn your way thru the IDE itself
2019-07-11T12:29:33 < Ha0hmaru> unless it's made for dummies
2019-07-11T12:29:43 < zyp> benishor, yeah, that's why I recommend vim
2019-07-11T12:31:18 < benishor> zyp: so how would you perform debugging then or get great code completion hints?
2019-07-11T12:31:34 < benishor> running gdb by hand is not that productive 
2019-07-11T12:32:02 < benishor> not to mention as-you-type static analysis 
2019-07-11T12:32:24 < benishor> I am a vim user but wouldn't use it as an IDE
2019-07-11T12:32:39 < benishor> no matter how many extensions you would use
2019-07-11T12:34:13 < Ha0hmaru> i can't live without syntax highlight and code completion
2019-07-11T12:34:45 < Ha0hmaru> also the "go to declaration" stuffz is uber nice
2019-07-11T12:35:09 < Ha0hmaru> best of all, i can use this one IDE for pretty much everything i'm coding
2019-07-11T12:35:28 < Ha0hmaru> on all the OSes i use
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2019-07-11T12:40:32 < karlp> benishor:netbeans 8.2.  (newest netbeans post apache donation hasnt' restored the c/c++ modules yet, yay)
2019-07-11T12:41:09 < Ha0hmaru> aww, wozn't that written in java
2019-07-11T12:41:11 < karlp> netbeans is ~only ide I've found that just goes, "oh, you have a makefile alreayd? no problem, rebuild in verbose mode and I'll just scan the log for you"
2019-07-11T12:41:22 < karlp> why does it matter what language the ide was written in?
2019-07-11T12:41:42 < zyp> does vscode count as an IDE then?
2019-07-11T12:42:05 < karlp> last I tired I had to manually edit a config file to enable c compilation, so it failed automatically
2019-07-11T12:42:13 < Ha0hmaru> karlp, when u use a ghetto PC, some stuff suddenly matters
2019-07-11T12:42:38 < karlp> java's been running on pcs since your ghetto pc was a mighty machine from the future, so give itup
2019-07-11T12:43:31 < Ha0hmaru> karlp, afaik MPLABX is based on netbeans, that's where i have my impressions from
2019-07-11T12:43:42 < Ha0hmaru> and that thing is terribly slow on a ghetto PC
2019-07-11T12:44:22 < karlp> who knows what they added to it?
2019-07-11T12:44:25 < karlp> not me.
2019-07-11T12:44:37 < Ha0hmaru> they've added more java onto it, for sure
2019-07-11T12:44:41 < Ha0hmaru> because they like java
2019-07-11T12:45:25 < Ha0hmaru> microsh*t that is
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2019-07-11T13:00:57 < kakimir> Ha0hmaru: pick up a pc from a dumpster and connect your harddrive
2019-07-11T13:01:26 < kakimir> computers in recycling are literally better than yours!
2019-07-11T13:02:05 < kakimir> and for hobbyism you can get 386DX
2019-07-11T13:02:12 < Ha0hmaru> maybe in finland's dumpsters
2019-07-11T13:02:35 < Ha0hmaru> dumsters here are moar ghetto
2019-07-11T13:02:59  * Ha0hmaru drags kakimir to bulgaria
2019-07-11T13:03:05 < Ha0hmaru> COME AND SUFFER
2019-07-11T13:04:05 < kakimir> common thing in recycling is early i3 and i5
2019-07-11T13:07:26 < kakimir> we need to send you a computer
2019-07-11T13:07:44 < Ha0hmaru> nah
2019-07-11T13:07:52 < kakimir> across the iron wall
2019-07-11T13:08:02 < Ha0hmaru> i don't *need* netbeans
2019-07-11T13:08:10 < Ha0hmaru> so f*ck it
2019-07-11T13:08:53 < kakimir> bbl>
2019-07-11T13:08:58 < Ha0hmaru> no, wait
2019-07-11T13:09:08 < Ha0hmaru> stay here kakimir
2019-07-11T13:09:17 < Ha0hmaru> hold my hand while i'm upgrading my debian
2019-07-11T13:09:18 < Ha0hmaru> :/
2019-07-11T13:09:37 < kakimir> :o
2019-07-11T13:10:03 < kakimir> it's okay you are a big boy now
2019-07-11T13:10:22 < kakimir> going>
2019-07-11T13:18:52 < Thorn> they keep breaking the c++ extension in vs code. it starts randomly highlights nonexistent problems after an update, happened multiple times
2019-07-11T13:18:55 < Thorn>  right now I'm on the "insiders channel" for that extension (or wtf they call it, beta versions basically) and it looks more stable
2019-07-11T13:19:35 < Steffanx> Never had that issue
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2019-07-11T13:24:32 < Thorn> why does epcos limit their n87 cores to 100kHz for flybacks? I calculated a transformer for my flyback and losses are acceptable (30mW) @ 350kHz
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2019-07-11T13:25:56 < Thorn> and inductance, # of turms all seem to make sense
2019-07-11T13:38:39 < jpa-> how did you calculate it?
2019-07-11T13:39:05 < jpa-> IIRC flybacks have quite sharp spikes there, so just calculating losses at 350kHz sinewave doesn't give realistic value
2019-07-11T13:42:40 < Thorn> last graph here, losses vs. frequency & avg flux density https://www.tdk-electronics.tdk.com/download/528882/71e02c7b9384de1331b3f625ce4b2123/pdf-n87.pdf
2019-07-11T13:44:15 < Thorn> avg flux density = 40 mT
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2019-07-11T13:44:47 < Thorn> f = 350 kHz, volume = 287 mm^3
2019-07-11T14:21:15 < Thorn> hayabusa 2 landing on asteroid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnJX9obXzPU
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2019-07-11T14:50:08 < salcedo> jpa-: ahhhh. ok this make sesne.
2019-07-11T14:51:35 < salcedo> jpa-: i experimented with HAL yesterday. i think initially i will use st32cubemx to generate a makefile and use HAL. i'm unable to "do" anything yet thuogh because nucleo isn't here yet
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2019-07-11T15:18:02 < jpa-> Thorn: yeah, that graph looks like it would be for sine waves
2019-07-11T15:18:27 < jpa-> Thorn: i haven't done the math, but my instinct would be that the comparable frequency for a flyback would be 5-10x higher
2019-07-11T15:21:21 < karlp> yewhere's the 100khz limit from?
2019-07-11T15:30:47 < Thorn> karlp: epcos datashits (in the text)
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2019-07-11T15:43:53 < benishor> sooo
2019-07-11T15:44:34 < benishor> managed to install stm32cubeide and debug/deploy a default generated project which does nothing
2019-07-11T15:44:54 < benishor> next in line: how would I blink LD1 on the F746 discovery board?
2019-07-11T15:50:24 < zyp> figure out what gpio pin it's connected to, turn on the clock for that GPIO block in RCC, configure the pin to output mode and toggle the output value
2019-07-11T15:50:29 < zyp> that would be the bare minimum
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2019-07-11T16:02:23 < benishor> zyp: not sure about the RCC part
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2019-07-11T16:09:45 < karlp> then time to read your reference manual
2019-07-11T16:10:30 < karlp> or modify this line and rebuild: https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-miniblink/blob/master/boards.stm32.mk#L121
2019-07-11T16:11:16 < karlp> (but then you're tossing away your cube/hal world)
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2019-07-11T16:31:20 < benishor> arrgh, steep learning curve
2019-07-11T16:50:10 < benishor>  zyp: I did that but still no cigar
2019-07-11T16:50:26 < karlp> then you didn't :)
2019-07-11T16:51:01 < benishor> well, I found out that LED LD1 is on PI1
2019-07-11T16:51:27 < karlp> right, so the miniblink works otu of the box, as intended.
2019-07-11T16:51:38 < karlp> I thoughtyou had some other pin :)
2019-07-11T16:51:50 < benishor> MX_GPIO_Init() contains { ... _HAL_RCC_GPIOI_CLK_ENABLE(); ...  }
2019-07-11T16:52:04 < benishor> and I also added there
2019-07-11T16:52:06 < benishor>   /* Configure GPIO pins: LD1 as output */
2019-07-11T16:52:08 < benishor>   GPIO_InitStruct.Pin = GPIO_PIN_1;
2019-07-11T16:52:09 < benishor>   GPIO_InitStruct.Mode = GPIO_MODE_OUTPUT_PP;
2019-07-11T16:52:11 < benishor>   GPIO_InitStruct.Pull = GPIO_PULLUP;
2019-07-11T16:52:12 < benishor>   GPIO_InitStruct.Speed = GPIO_SPEED_HIGH;
2019-07-11T16:52:14 < benishor>   HAL_GPIO_Init(GPIOI, &GPIO_InitStruct);
2019-07-11T16:52:23 < karlp> don't paste walls of code here please
2019-07-11T16:52:30 < benishor> yeah, sorry about that
2019-07-11T16:55:11 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/fz6smxpB
2019-07-11T16:56:08 < karlp> ok, and?
2019-07-11T16:56:19 < karlp> does it hang? does the led light but not blink? does the led not light?
2019-07-11T16:56:37 < karlp> "no cigar" isn't very helpful
2019-07-11T17:05:50 < benishor> I wasn't blinking
2019-07-11T17:05:53 < benishor> I got it to blink though
2019-07-11T17:06:33 < benishor> just a sec to validate some assumptions
2019-07-11T17:08:39 < benishor> ok, so I had to do two things in order to get it going:
2019-07-11T17:09:57 < benishor> 1) comment out MX_SPI2_Init(); . The reason for this was that LD1 on the stm32F746 discovery board is assigned to PI1 which is also shared by SPI2. And having started with a default project in Stm32CubeIde which initializes peripherals to their default settings, SPI2 was initialized, taking over the led pin
2019-07-11T17:10:30 < benishor> 2) I had to comment out the   osKernelStart(); call from int main()  {} so that I would get to run the main thread code
2019-07-11T17:10:45 < benishor> I suppose 2) is a clear consequence of me not knowing about RTOS
2019-07-11T17:12:39 < dongs> you know you can reassign SPI peripherals to other pins rihgt
2019-07-11T17:14:43 < salcedo> osKernelStart() is the ST/HAL way of doing RTOS, right?
2019-07-11T17:15:02 < salcedo> anything after that function call will not be run unless the RTOS fails to allocate resources
2019-07-11T17:15:02 < dongs> i think its just feertos shit, no?
2019-07-11T17:15:41 < benishor> yup
2019-07-11T17:16:05 < benishor> I just moved the blinking code to the thread instanced and used by the scheduler and it worked great
2019-07-11T17:16:08 < salcedo> it even says it in the comments if you look at a project with FreeRTOS middleware enabled that is generated by stm32cubemx
2019-07-11T17:16:30 < benishor> yeah, someone ought to start reading comments
2019-07-11T17:16:32  * benishor points to himself
2019-07-11T17:16:59 < benishor> <-- complete noob here. not at programming thankfully
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2019-07-11T17:23:29 < zyp> sounds like you're mixing a bunch of shit
2019-07-11T17:23:45 < zyp> a bare project wouldn't do anything about SPI2
2019-07-11T17:24:10 < dongs> yep as retarded cube is, it doesn't initialize shit you don't tell it to initialize
2019-07-11T17:24:42 < dongs> i suppose its possible thier "default" project for F7-disco will load up all the peripherals that are on teh board by default on headers?
2019-07-11T17:24:57 < dongs> cuz in cube you can pick 'development board' and it will preload pinout for it
2019-07-11T17:25:02 < dongs> for a new project
2019-07-11T17:25:59 < dongs> how the fuck did they end up with a overloaded led blinking pins when using 400pin BGA tho
2019-07-11T17:27:28 < Ha0hmaru> maybe by playing minesweeper till 30 minutes before the deadline
2019-07-11T17:29:27 < dongs> or hiring some retarded french high school grad to do their scehatmic?
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2019-07-11T19:24:35 < Ad0> hello, does anyone have experience with STM32CubeIDE? it's fairly new that it's an IDE right?
2019-07-11T19:27:47 < Ad0> May 8, 2019 heh, pretty fresh
2019-07-11T19:28:39 < karlp> it's a rebadging of atollic truestudio, not especially new.
2019-07-11T19:30:29 < Ad0> ah ok
2019-07-11T19:31:01 < karlp> it now has the "cube" bits of it integrated into the ide which used to be external
2019-07-11T19:35:43 < Ad0> right
2019-07-11T19:35:53 < Ad0> I was expecting a code generator 
2019-07-11T19:36:24 < Ad0> so this uses GCC while Keil has it's own compiler, are there any noticable performance differences? 
2019-07-11T19:40:50 < karlp> you need to define your own criteria for that to be meaningful really.
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2019-07-11T19:44:45 < Ad0> yeah I don't think it's going to be an issue in my case :)
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2019-07-11T20:31:14 < turnip420> benishor: oskenelstart will dump the main stack
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2019-07-11T20:48:06 < mrec> hi, did anyone notice the weird USB 1.1 support of the STM32F072 parts?
2019-07-11T20:48:58 < mrec> https://snag.gy/x0kGJt.jpg
2019-07-11T20:49:58 < mrec> DP/DM - the signal looks like this and is even over/undershooting sometimes
2019-07-11T20:50:09 < mrec> that's the signal of the Nucleo board
2019-07-11T20:51:03 < mrec> and I notice some hickups when benchmarking usb control messages
2019-07-11T20:52:44 < mrec> that would be the rise time of 25ns
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2019-07-11T21:05:04 < jpa-> mrec: isn't that quite normal for series terminated signals?  http://www.sigcon.com/Pubs/news/7_03.htm
2019-07-11T21:11:28 < mrec> I'm getting usb control message timeouts randomly ..
2019-07-11T21:11:49 < mrec> and I think it might be related to the under/overshooting
2019-07-11T21:12:10 < mrec> https://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~heha/viewchm.php/hs/usb.chm/usb2.htm
2019-07-11T21:12:21 < mrec> Full Speed device with pull up resistor connected to D+
2019-07-11T21:12:24 < mrec> I'll check that one
2019-07-11T21:13:38 < jpa-> do you see a bunch of retries on the control messages?
2019-07-11T21:14:37 < mrec> [83927.272158] usb 3-6: usbfs: USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed cmd mediasrv rqt 64 rq 221 len 0 ret -110
2019-07-11T21:14:40 < mrec> [84076.524808] usb 3-6: usbfs: USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed cmd mediasrv rqt 64 rq 221 len 0 ret -110
2019-07-11T21:14:43 < mrec> [84353.401449] usb 3-6: usbfs: USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed cmd mediasrv rqt 64 rq 221 len 0 ret -110
2019-07-11T21:14:46 < mrec> [84420.407542] usb 3-6: usbfs: USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed cmd mediasrv rqt 64 rq 221 len 0 ret -110
2019-07-11T21:14:49 < mrec> I get this one from time to time
2019-07-11T21:15:25 < mrec> which means connection timed out
2019-07-11T21:15:48 < mrec> I guess I would need a usb 1.1 bus analyzer
2019-07-11T21:32:22 < jpa-> yep, though you can get by with a logic analyzer + sigrok
2019-07-11T21:35:11 < mrec> I nonono... I connected the device directly to usb on another pc and the signal is clean
2019-07-11T21:35:35 < mrec> I don't remember having this issue when I used that USB 1.1 device last year on the other pc .. this year there's another pc here
2019-07-11T21:39:01 < mrec> ok how to avoid that glitch :-)
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2019-07-11T21:51:25 < mrec> interesting issue
2019-07-11T21:51:40 < englishman> http://i.imgur.com/ggPQaLt.jpg
2019-07-11T21:51:54 < englishman> the tek is over9000 times better
2019-07-11T21:51:57 < englishman> Keysight is dead
2019-07-11T21:55:08 < mrec> if this tek can explain help me to fix my problem it's definitely worth its money ;-)
2019-07-11T22:02:02 < mrec> ok seems to work with a short usb cable
2019-07-11T22:02:20 < Thorn> mrec: and then collect your salary
2019-07-11T22:03:20 < mrec> and run away
2019-07-11T22:06:00 < Steffanx> Sexy work gear you have there mr englishman
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2019-07-11T22:58:54 < qyx> englishman: it looks like an older Mac
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2019-07-11T23:16:49 < kakimir> hello cubes
2019-07-11T23:22:03 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tvqlU4-PV4 how about some 1996
2019-07-11T23:24:53 < Steffanx> Hello youtubes
2019-07-11T23:29:31 < kakimir> hello redtubes
2019-07-11T23:32:24 < Steffanx> How was the day to day so far mr kakimir?
2019-07-11T23:32:34 < kakimir> good good
2019-07-11T23:32:37 < kakimir> a little work
2019-07-11T23:32:54 < kakimir> got free 80's bicycle
2019-07-11T23:32:59 < kakimir> really hip looking
2019-07-11T23:33:11 < kakimir> and compression values of my moped are okay
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2019-07-11T23:34:18 < kakimir> bicycle has gear switch levers on the chassis!
2019-07-11T23:36:07 < Steffanx> need pics to judge
2019-07-11T23:36:08 < kakimir> http://bikeline.fi/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/helkama-kulkuri-1-e1561732022921.png this but in mirror silver color
2019-07-11T23:36:13 < Steffanx> ah
2019-07-11T23:36:27 < Steffanx> not even ugly brown
2019-07-11T23:36:35 < Steffanx> beige
2019-07-11T23:36:46 < kakimir> my main bicycle is beige
2019-07-11T23:37:41 < kakimir> that model is totally solid.. I mean it's from 80's and has nothing wrong with it
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2019-07-11T23:39:45 < kakimir> made of good parts before rise of shitty bikes in 90s
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2019-07-11T23:49:31 < aandrew> yes I agree, nice toys engish
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--- Day changed Fri Jul 12 2019
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2019-07-12T00:11:54 < englishman> Steffanx: after using the tek, everything else seems so outdated
2019-07-12T00:14:30 < englishman> the lower end ones have pretty much the same interface, even the 3 series I think
2019-07-12T00:15:44 < aandrew> englishman: I used to love tek until I got to use a top end lecroy
2019-07-12T00:15:52 < aandrew> then the teks all felt like C64s
2019-07-12T00:16:07 < englishman> that's probably what they were trying to copy
2019-07-12T00:16:24 < englishman> there's a 2GHz lecroy here but it's old af
2019-07-12T00:16:54 < englishman> the Keysight with similar specs is just unusable tho
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2019-07-12T00:21:26 < karlp> mrec: what are you benchmarking usb with?
2019-07-12T00:25:49 < karlp> mrec:also, what did you get that image from? (https://snag.gy/x0kGJt.jpg)
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2019-07-12T00:56:13 < turnip420> Can fatfs not handle fjdk.txt ...
2019-07-12T00:56:26 < turnip420> FR_INVALID_NAME
2019-07-12T00:56:30 < turnip420> :(
2019-07-12T00:56:58 < karlp> lrun to read
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2019-07-12T02:10:18 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone here assembled their own uCurrent?
2019-07-12T02:10:36 < ColdKeyboard> Mine is acting weird, it's giving square-wave on the output regardless of the input...
2019-07-12T02:15:33 < kakimir> at what frequency?
2019-07-12T02:17:58 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@94.4.218.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-07-12T02:19:42 < ColdKeyboard> Let me check
2019-07-12T02:20:05 < ColdKeyboard> Also does anyone know why there are these "antenna" traces -> https://i.imgur.com/p2QwKpo.png
2019-07-12T02:21:04 < ColdKeyboard> It's oscillating at about ~16KHz
2019-07-12T02:22:10 < ColdKeyboard> It's oscillating even if I put it to SHORT, even shorting Vin+ and Vin- :\
2019-07-12T02:22:11 < Thorn> Dave has lots of videos about this thing, the traces are for testing in the panel iirc, and I think he had an issue with oscillation also
2019-07-12T02:22:35 < ColdKeyboard> Damn... :(
2019-07-12T02:22:50 < ColdKeyboard> Was it also on Rev5 or? I think that's the latest one available
2019-07-12T02:23:20 < Thorn> iirc it was a certain batch of the 0 drift op amp or something
2019-07-12T02:26:04 < ColdKeyboard> Any way to fix this?
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2019-07-12T02:28:39 < kakimir> oh now I remember the video
2019-07-12T02:29:35 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VlKoR0ldIE this maybe
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2019-07-12T02:54:01 < ColdKeyboard> So far he didn't mention the solution and my chips have the same marking as the "good" one that he mentions
2019-07-12T02:55:03 < kakimir> https://youtu.be/1VlKoR0ldIE?t=1553 look at frequency counter at the scope
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2019-07-12T02:55:51 < kakimir> 16khz
2019-07-12T02:56:43 < ColdKeyboard> Lol :D
2019-07-12T02:56:49 < kakimir> he soldered in some on semi 321 variant he had in stock and it went even worse
2019-07-12T02:58:36 < kakimir> you have on semi op amps there?
2019-07-12T02:59:52 < ColdKeyboard> I'll have to dig the bag and see
2019-07-12T03:00:01 < ColdKeyboard> I ordered whatever is in the datasheet :)
2019-07-12T03:00:05 < ColdKeyboard> *BOM
2019-07-12T03:00:11 < kakimir> did you follow the spec to the point?
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2019-07-12T03:00:48 < kakimir> how does that kit thing even work? do you get pcb or order pcb using gerbers or?
2019-07-12T03:01:05 < kakimir> or the whole kit comes with all parts?
2019-07-12T03:01:41 < ColdKeyboard> I coldn't find it anywhere so I ordered the board using his gerber and then ordered parts from digikey
2019-07-12T03:01:55 < ColdKeyboard> Board is also ENIG so that shouldn't be an issue
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2019-07-12T03:02:33 < kakimir> how did you come up with BOM?
2019-07-12T03:03:24 < ColdKeyboard> What do you mean? There is a BOM provided?
2019-07-12T03:03:34 < ColdKeyboard> Well I mean in schematics there are PN for each part
2019-07-12T03:03:43 < dongs> Thorn: opinion on eurofags trashing a paki satellite
2019-07-12T03:03:58 < kakimir> show me ColdKeyboard
2019-07-12T03:04:11 < kakimir> I might just build one
2019-07-12T03:05:02 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-07-12T03:05:17 < ColdKeyboard> kakimir: https://www.eevblog.com/projects/ucurrent/
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2019-07-12T03:05:29 < ColdKeyboard> There is even BOM provided on that page
2019-07-12T03:05:43 < ColdKeyboard> I'll try swapping this OpAmp with another one
2019-07-12T03:05:51 < dongs> how much $ did you spend building that retarded make:r abortion that you could have put towards a proper bench multimeter?
2019-07-12T03:06:08 < dongs> i bought jewcurrent and regretted it instantly
2019-07-12T03:06:42 < kakimir> ColdKeyboard: label U2
2019-07-12T03:06:51 < kakimir> dongs: how so?
2019-07-12T03:07:00 < kakimir> nice to see you dongs
2019-07-12T03:07:37 < ColdKeyboard> Nice to see dongs in his usual good mood :)
2019-07-12T03:08:15 < kakimir> got to admit it
2019-07-12T03:08:41 < kakimir> throw >1000usd to multimeter and you're golden
2019-07-12T03:08:47 < kakimir> unless you want to scope it
2019-07-12T03:10:52 -!- Streake_ [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-07-12T03:12:36 < kakimir> ie. detailed information about MCU power consumption
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2019-07-12T03:13:06 < dongs> a "$1000" multimeter will have usb datalogging
2019-07-12T03:13:16 < dongs> and probably higher measure bandwidth than jewcurrent
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2019-07-12T03:15:01 < kakimir> :o
2019-07-12T03:15:25 < kakimir> isn't it like only 50hz or something?
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2019-07-12T03:15:42 < dongs> jewcurrent?
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2019-07-12T03:15:54 < dongs> pretty sure it was some ~kHz range but nothing amazing
2019-07-12T03:15:56 < ColdKeyboard> Found the bag, it's TI part aka the good one
2019-07-12T03:16:05 < kakimir> 1PLC sampling
2019-07-12T03:16:25 < kakimir> ColdKeyboard: is it the exact part?
2019-07-12T03:16:49 < kakimir> at least for voltage it's 1PLC minimum sample time
2019-07-12T03:16:55 < kakimir> in keysight
2019-07-12T03:17:19 < kakimir> at least for display
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2019-07-12T03:29:57 < ColdKeyboard> Replaced U2... same thing
2019-07-12T03:30:12 < ColdKeyboard> I'll see if maybe ordering different part helps
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2019-07-12T03:31:58 < kakimir> you replaced it with what?
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2019-07-12T03:39:19 < ColdKeyboard> This one is the TI part, it's supposed to be the good one
2019-07-12T03:43:36 < Thorn> conclusion: DAVE's design is marginally stable
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2019-07-12T04:00:52 < englishman> Thorn: what did DAVE have to do with yuros smashing up a milsat
2019-07-12T04:01:25 < Thorn> dunno maybe they tested their pyro crap with a µCurrent lol
2019-07-12T04:01:35 < englishman> safe bet
2019-07-12T04:02:04 < dongs> but it was a paki milsat
2019-07-12T04:02:07 < dongs> so not a huge loss
2019-07-12T04:02:09 < Thorn> or some kind of leakage
2019-07-12T04:02:10 < englishman> worse
2019-07-12T04:02:11 < englishman> saudi
2019-07-12T04:02:16 < dongs> same shit, no? 
2019-07-12T04:02:26 < dongs> different shade of brown
2019-07-12T04:02:40 < englishman> pakis have nukes
2019-07-12T04:04:01 < Thorn> suddenly what I need http://www.ti.com/tool/pmp10491
2019-07-12T04:04:31 < Thorn> even larger Vin range
2019-07-12T04:05:42 < dongs> hmmmmmmmmm
2019-07-12T04:05:49 < dongs> thorn that does look nice
2019-07-12T04:05:55 < dongs> not quite fitting for my poe shit tho
2019-07-12T04:06:07 < Thorn> delete secondary sync rectification y/n
2019-07-12T04:06:34 < dongs> no thats waht brings up the efficiency
2019-07-12T04:07:41 < Thorn> they have some chip that senses the voltage swing and drives the mosfet
2019-07-12T04:07:47 < Thorn> could be better than a GDT
2019-07-12T04:08:57 < Thorn> or in my case just a couple of diodes (1A out max)
2019-07-12T04:09:53 < Thorn> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Others_Texas-Instruments_LM5022MM-NOPB_Texas-Instruments-TI-LM5022MM-NOPB_C74767.html
2019-07-12T04:11:35 < Thorn> dongs: they have multiple poe ref designs with this chip family too, I just skip them because 48V and a lot of extra shit
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2019-07-12T04:31:46 < dongs> https://bellard.org/quickjs/ bellard strikes again
2019-07-12T04:36:31 < Thorn> attn dongs the flyback runs @ 500 kHz, this is the transformer, max 300 kHz https://products.sumida.com/products/pdf/CEEH157B.pdf?t=1557460126
2019-07-12T04:37:30 < dongs> i think you can increase kHz for reduction in power
2019-07-12T04:37:58 < Thorn> this is probably the right one https://products.sumida.com/products/pdf/CEEH158.pdf?t=1557460126
2019-07-12T04:38:52 < Thorn> they don't say what core it has but I guess it's not N87
2019-07-12T04:39:08 < Thorn> something higher frequency
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2019-07-12T05:06:37 < Thorn> why do I need a 100V, 50A mosfet in a 30V in max, 1A flyback? is it because of low Rds(on) and max Vds = Vin + Vreflected?
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2019-07-12T10:32:43 < dongs> nice
2019-07-12T10:32:50 < dongs> the overcurrent thing using USB switch works great
2019-07-12T10:33:09 < dongs> no more noise from dc/dc for being shorted and it cuts it nicelyt
2019-07-12T10:33:34 < dongs> and 12/16v thing worked too
2019-07-12T10:33:42 < dongs> using npn to switch in a resistor
2019-07-12T10:37:23 < jly> how about some anime mate?
2019-07-12T10:43:52 < jly> guess it's an appropriate time to ask what your nick means?
2019-07-12T10:45:18 < jly> pacman?
2019-07-12T10:45:52 < jly> did you ever hear about PUCKMAN
2019-07-12T10:46:09 < jly> the original name for pacman
2019-07-12T10:46:24 < jly> until someone realized how easy it was to change the P into an F
2019-07-12T10:46:57 < benishor> anyone knowsiis there a way I can use cmsis-dsp with mbed?
2019-07-12T10:48:24 < benishor> it seems to be in a features/unsupported folder https://github.com/ARMmbed/mbed-os/tree/master/features/unsupported/dsp
2019-07-12T10:48:30 < dongs> how is that even a question
2019-07-12T10:48:33 < benishor> but I kinda need it
2019-07-12T10:49:02 < zyp> jly, have you been watching scott pilgrim again?
2019-07-12T10:50:54 < benishor> and when I try to add it by hand in mbed offline compiler I get this https://pastebin.com/6ym4vPUH
2019-07-12T10:50:56 < jly> absolutely no idea what that is and why I may be watching it
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2019-07-12T10:59:02 < benishor> Haohmaru: amazingly I just solved those errors by renaming the extension from .S to .s
2019-07-12T10:59:06 < benishor> fucking windows faggots
2019-07-12T11:03:04 < jly> those faggots.... better keep an eye out.
2019-07-12T11:03:54 < dongs> lmao benishor you fucking wanker
2019-07-12T11:06:34 < jly> almost spat out my beer
2019-07-12T11:34:43 < benishor> dongs: 'sup faggot?
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2019-07-12T11:47:43 < Steffanx> Language benishor, language.
2019-07-12T11:49:53 < benishor> yes, Steffanx. language. I speak it, I write it. I am even a polyglot, coding in about 4 of them on a daily basis. I also like reciprocity
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2019-07-12T11:59:07 < ehl0_> any lwip users here?
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2019-07-12T12:21:54 < karlp> benishor: .s and .S have meanings, it's not just "windows faggots"
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2019-07-12T12:25:14 < benishor> karlp: in what way do they differ?
2019-07-12T12:25:23 < benishor> and how would that work on windows then?
2019-07-12T12:26:03 < karlp> windows users sometimes used different suffices altogether, or they decided they liked one of the styles.
2019-07-12T12:26:21 < karlp> and this is just based on default rules, you can do whatever the fuck you like yourself
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2019-07-12T12:31:17 < benishor> karlp: fair enough. it's most likely mbed studio's fault, but still fuck windows for perpetuating a case insensitive filesystem and fucking around with posix
2019-07-12T12:35:19 < karlp> so.... why are you using it?
2019-07-12T12:35:31 < karlp> I mean, I'm not sure what windows has to do with mbed or cmsis-dsp...
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2019-07-12T12:44:02 < benishor> karlp: I'm not using it. I was just mad at mbed studio who's written for windows people and therefor do not take file extension case sensitivity into account, hence treating .s as asm source and falling back to gcc for .S 
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2019-07-12T12:44:25 < benishor> and this was when running mbed studio on a mac
2019-07-12T12:44:43 < benishor> the same source tree would have worked on a windows machine in the same ide
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2019-07-12T12:45:19 < benishor> thus the root cause for this problem is window's faggotry
2019-07-12T12:48:14 < dongs> uh allright
2019-07-12T12:48:18 < dongs> says someoen who ran shit on a mac
2019-07-12T12:48:19 < dongs> unironically
2019-07-12T12:48:20 < dongs> ookay
2019-07-12T12:50:32 < Steffanx> Lol
2019-07-12T12:50:40 < karlp> you're gonna love them adding case insensitivy to ext4 then :)
2019-07-12T13:07:04 < karlp> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=EXT4-Case-Insensitive-Linux-5.2 or https://lwn.net/Articles/784041/ if you prefer
2019-07-12T13:10:38 < benishor> I doubt we'll get to see that happen
2019-07-12T13:19:01 < jly> I hear linus is a pretty chill kinda dude
2019-07-12T13:19:49 < karlp> your doubts are irrelevant: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/log/fs/ext4 (look for Gabriel Krisman Bertazi commits)
2019-07-12T13:24:17 < benishor> :|
2019-07-12T13:24:34 < benishor> sad day
2019-07-12T13:35:06 < zyp> benishor, uh, you know macos is also case-insensitive by default, just like windows?
2019-07-12T13:36:17 < jpa-> yeah, sounds like just a crappy application
2019-07-12T13:36:38 < jpa-> even windows passes the case of the filename to application, even though it is case-insensitive when looking for files
2019-07-12T13:40:02 < jpa-> benishor: did you actually check that on windows it would treat .S as assembler source? .S vs .s is different in that .S needs a preprocessor applied
2019-07-12T13:40:58 < jpa-> maybe opening assembler files is just so rare use case that they haven't bothered testing all the extensions, and it has nothing to do with windows
2019-07-12T13:43:39 < benishor> jpa-: no, I did not check with windows since I do not have windows available. only linux and a mac
2019-07-12T13:43:52 < jpa-> yeah, so you are just assuming things so that you can blame windows
2019-07-12T13:43:56 < Steffanx> Get a loicense of ebay
2019-07-12T13:44:14 < jpa-> just blame mbed instead, that will make you more popular on this channel
2019-07-12T13:44:33 < Steffanx> The .S vs .s issue has been around since forever
2019-07-12T13:44:51 < Steffanx> Must be an eclipse feature
2019-07-12T13:48:39 < karlp> so, is anyone working on getting "MadeForSTM32" stamps?
2019-07-12T13:49:07 < karlp> zyp: I'm going to have a hard time convincing people to use laks if you dont' get this stamp man....
2019-07-12T13:55:16 < jly> why made_for_stm32 stamp?
2019-07-12T13:56:05 < jly> Steffanx: I want to try this instead of handing over another $150aud to microsoften
2019-07-12T13:59:13 < karlp> ask ST https://blog.st.com/madeforstm32/
2019-07-12T13:59:53 < jly> oh i see... thanks for the link
2019-07-12T14:00:30 < jly> I remember their YOU CAN'T WRITE STM32 ON ANY PRODUCT YOU SELL
2019-07-12T14:00:38 < jly> or something like that
2019-07-12T14:04:14 < jly> eh?
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2019-07-12T14:13:39 < dongs> http://tinyurl.com/y4jc3x2h hmm why doesnt this work
2019-07-12T14:13:53 < jly> i feel like this link will break my machine
2019-07-12T14:14:21 < dongs> it will
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2019-07-12T14:24:03 < dongs> hmm so waht eh fck
2019-07-12T14:24:10 < dongs> i have a board where this works but it doestn even sim
2019-07-12T14:24:13 < dongs> did i miss something obvious here
2019-07-12T14:33:37 < jly> a simple resistive load perhaps
2019-07-12T14:34:00 < jly> unfortunately i don't know how to add one in that disease (falstad's site is really good though)
2019-07-12T14:37:19 < dongs> oh, right.
2019-07-12T14:37:23 < dongs> i didnt add an actual load
2019-07-12T14:38:11 < dongs> http://tinyurl.com/y358tk7h
2019-07-12T14:38:14 < dongs> ok so it sims
2019-07-12T14:38:17 < dongs> but why it doenst work on hw
2019-07-12T14:38:43 < dongs> hm is it bceause i have no load on hw either?
2019-07-12T14:49:32 < dongs> hmm nope
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2019-07-12T15:03:38 < Thorn> dongs: are you sure your source/drain aren't reversed
2019-07-12T15:04:25 < dongs> ya
2019-07-12T15:04:32 < dongs> actual;ly i see it
2019-07-12T15:04:44 < dongs> but i neded to up bandwidth on scope to 250mh
2019-07-12T15:04:49 < dongs> in 20mhz mode it doesnt see
2019-07-12T15:04:53 < dongs> the shit is weird
2019-07-12T15:08:07 < mrec> karlp: oscilloscope, however it seems to be pretty much normal
2019-07-12T15:08:11 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/94RgDCN.png
2019-07-12T15:08:18 < mrec> I think the PC controller has some issues when USB 3.0 is enabled
2019-07-12T15:08:47 < dongs> on real hw, instead of actually going up./down it makes a bunch of shitty peaks
2019-07-12T15:08:54 < mrec> disabling usb 3 on that system makes it work properly.
2019-07-12T15:08:58 < dongs> invisible at 20mhz bw
2019-07-12T15:09:09 < mrec> clock interference?
2019-07-12T15:09:17 < mrec> put some ferrite beads there?
2019-07-12T15:09:27 < mrec> super noisy :-)
2019-07-12T15:09:28 < dongs> nom, im adding the inferference
2019-07-12T15:11:52 < mawk> what is that circuit dongs ?
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2019-07-12T15:13:05 < dongs> its adding noise on top of dc signal
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2019-07-12T15:13:43 < mawk> using a mosfet body diode
2019-07-12T15:14:30 < dongs> theres an actual diode there too
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2019-07-12T15:15:42 < mawk> ah
2019-07-12T15:15:47 < mawk> so you're using the two diodes in parallel ?
2019-07-12T15:15:54 < mawk> since I guess you're using a power mosfet for this
2019-07-12T15:16:03 < mawk> it already has a diode oriented like you added in your circuit
2019-07-12T15:16:15 < dongs> no, when mosfet is open, voltage passes through it ~almost all and is at output.
2019-07-12T15:16:25 < dongs> when mosfet is closed, voltage goes through the next easist thing (diode) and gets dropped a bit
2019-07-12T15:16:38 < mawk> yes
2019-07-12T15:16:38 < dongs> end result = it fluctuates with the clock thats fed
2019-07-12T15:16:50 < mawk> but I mean there is already a diode in the mosfet itself
2019-07-12T15:17:08 < dongs> diode in mosfet is the other way
2019-07-12T15:20:33 < dongs> uh wait no urrite. anyway, how does that cahnge anything tho
2019-07-12T15:21:20 < Thorn> dongs you have 2 antiparallel diodes in there, why
2019-07-12T15:21:34 < karlp> mrec: I was curous about exactly what, it looks like a stylized pencil drawing.
2019-07-12T15:21:37 < mawk> no you're right dongs 
2019-07-12T15:21:39 < dongs> thorn, the point is to either drop voltage (diode) or not (mosfet)
2019-07-12T15:21:42 < mawk> for pmos it's the reverse way of nmos
2019-07-12T15:21:45 < mawk> and you used a pmos
2019-07-12T15:22:03 < mrec> karlp: I just used some online drawing tool.. the first one that came up with google
2019-07-12T15:22:20 < mrec> the waveform looked like that on the oscilloscope ..I didn't install the framegrabbing software yet on my PC
2019-07-12T15:22:39 < karlp> so wht did you capture that with then?
2019-07-12T15:22:46 < dongs> sounds like his pen and paper
2019-07-12T15:22:47 < mrec> USB DP/DM
2019-07-12T15:22:47 < karlp> oh, nvm, I'mr eading now
2019-07-12T15:22:58 < karlp> you _didn't_ see that scope image, because that's not yours
2019-07-12T15:22:59 < dongs> anyway i think it works
2019-07-12T15:23:02 < karlp> that's just "something similar" :)
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2019-07-12T15:23:34 < mrec> the longer the USB cable the more visible that effect is it's about usb 1.1
2019-07-12T15:23:52 < karlp> and what ws your "benchmarking" tool?
2019-07-12T15:24:08 < mrec> I just did some generic transfer
2019-07-12T15:24:17 < mrec> it happens with all signals on any PC with usb 1.1
2019-07-12T15:24:35 < mrec> it should happen with usb 2/3 too but it needs a much better scope to see it
2019-07-12T15:57:42 < kakimir> what is a name of tool in english that measures leak in the cylinder of an ICE engine?
2019-07-12T15:57:55 < kakimir> flow by meter?
2019-07-12T15:59:18 < kakimir> yes
2019-07-12T15:59:42 < kakimir> cylinder leak down meter
2019-07-12T15:59:46 < kakimir> *tester
2019-07-12T16:03:36 < kakimir> kakimeter :o
2019-07-12T16:03:44 < kakimir> :p
2019-07-12T16:06:58 < englishman> kakimir: leakdown tester
2019-07-12T16:07:27 < englishman> 2 kinds active and passive
2019-07-12T16:07:39 < englishman> aka the ringfuck tester
2019-07-12T16:07:41 < kakimir> my R6 compression test says with cold engine +6kg/cm2 for all the cylinders
2019-07-12T16:07:57 < kakimir> with warm engine 13kg/cm2 is minimum
2019-07-12T16:08:00 < englishman> engines are an American invention can you use proper American units
2019-07-12T16:08:28 < kakimir> >Doubt
2019-07-12T16:08:45 < karlp> englishman:you live in a civilised country, you don't need to bow to peer pressure from your neighbour here
2019-07-12T16:10:32 < englishman> I live in a civilized country where dinosaur-burning automobiles are going the way of the dinosaur so idk where my leakdown meter even is
2019-07-12T16:27:08 < kakimir> dying tradition
2019-07-12T16:27:38 < kakimir> fiddling with the block of metals
2019-07-12T16:31:45 < kakimir> figuring out flows of air, gasoline and electrons
2019-07-12T16:31:51 < kakimir> and oil
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2019-07-12T17:44:06 < aandrew> I thought engines were german
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2019-07-12T18:02:43 < benishor> otto and diesel
2019-07-12T18:03:01 < benishor> both german, whatdoyouknow
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2019-07-12T18:04:54 < Thorn> flying tesla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0DHhiwvatQ
2019-07-12T18:05:04 < Thorn> not from Elon Musk either
2019-07-12T18:09:08 < salcedo> omg imagine if one of those crash landed on its way between two megacities and all of the passengers survived
2019-07-12T18:10:08 < salcedo> 2 hours until an amazon rescue drone as a service arrives.
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2019-07-12T18:11:05 < salcedo> and they get approached by a small group of outsider scouts!
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2019-07-12T18:16:30 < Thorn> webench doesn't seem to be completely bogus. I changed the mosfet to another with better Rds(on) and both efficiency and chip temperatures increased
2019-07-12T18:16:37 < Thorn> the latter due to higher gate charge
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2019-07-12T19:07:05 < kakimir> how does efficiency get better if chip temperature increases?
2019-07-12T19:07:21 < kakimir> assuming same output wattage
2019-07-12T19:07:42 < Thorn> the fet is cooler
2019-07-12T19:10:04 < kakimir> oh
2019-07-12T19:10:13 < kakimir> chip = fet gate driver
2019-07-12T19:11:54 < Thorn> yeah the fet is external
2019-07-12T19:13:36 < kakimir> increases and decreases in total system heat wattage is what matters
2019-07-12T19:19:34 < dongs> http://tinyurl.com/y4pvxs7q so any analog pros wanna tell me why on real hardware the output only has little glitches and not actually lower / raise the voltage on the right side?
2019-07-12T19:20:09 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/94RgDCN.png real hw ch1= right side out, ch2 = input pulse on the left
2019-07-12T19:21:04 < dongs> ColdKeyboard: those 'antenna traces look like either 1) retarded routing 2) test traces so that entire panel can be tested at once before being broken up
2019-07-12T19:21:24 < dongs> but im gonna go with 1) beacuse there's some traces so close to vcut/board outline that it just looks like some retard laid it out
2019-07-12T19:21:34 < dongs> is that jewcurent?
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2019-07-12T19:22:57 < englishman> $4m seems cheap
2019-07-12T19:23:03 < dongs> for that plane?
2019-07-12T19:23:03 < englishman> for a 9 seat electric plane
2019-07-12T19:23:05 < englishman> ya
2019-07-12T19:23:09 < dongs> thats cuz its a cam
2019-07-12T19:23:10 < dongs> scam
2019-07-12T19:23:42 < dongs> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/ScHKsN37.html
2019-07-12T19:24:09 < englishman> 8200 pounds of batteries
2019-07-12T19:24:13 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/UXCRKtR
2019-07-12T19:24:17 < englishman> 525nm range seems optimistic
2019-07-12T19:24:38 < dongs> 4 tons of batteries?
2019-07-12T19:24:50 < dongs> what does it do when it catches on fire
2019-07-12T19:24:58 < zyp> burn?
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2019-07-12T19:25:07 < englishman> it's not a vape
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2019-07-12T19:25:22 < karlp> 4million soundsd realllly cheap
2019-07-12T19:25:30 < englishman> ya.
2019-07-12T19:25:55 < englishman> nice copy paste
2019-07-12T19:25:58 < dongs> once i ship my next project i'll be able to afford a couple of them
2019-07-12T19:26:40 < zyp> how about people stop making hydrogen cars and start making hydrogen planes instead?
2019-07-12T19:26:49 < dongs> you mean fuelcell?
2019-07-12T19:26:56 < englishman> what scam is that
2019-07-12T19:27:02 < zyp> yeah, batteries vs hydrogen is partly a weight vs volume tradeoff
2019-07-12T19:27:05 < dongs> englishman: THAT AIRPLANE COMPANY
2019-07-12T19:27:08 -!- con3|2 [~kvirc@ml.sun.ac.za] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-12T19:27:17 < englishman> no, your scam
2019-07-12T19:27:22 < bitmask> zyp I saw a paper on hydrogen planes recently
2019-07-12T19:27:23 < dongs> yes that is that
2019-07-12T19:27:27 < dongs> that is the company making that 4 mil plane
2019-07-12T19:27:27 < englishman> no
2019-07-12T19:27:30 < kakimir> I need to start electric aircraft company
2019-07-12T19:27:31 < dongs> oh
2019-07-12T19:27:32 < englishman> your project
2019-07-12T19:27:33 < dongs> THAT scam
2019-07-12T19:27:35 < englishman> yes
2019-07-12T19:27:38 < englishman> YOUR scam
2019-07-12T19:27:42 < bitmask> the problem was keeping it cold and compressed
2019-07-12T19:27:52 < kakimir> show me the aircraft
2019-07-12T19:27:57 < dongs> some dumb shit for panasonic
2019-07-12T19:28:05 < kakimir> is it yet another multicopter
2019-07-12T19:28:19 < englishman> not more japtv shit
2019-07-12T19:28:38 < bitmask> https://futurism.com/the-byte/nasa-electric-planes-hydrogen
2019-07-12T19:28:40 < dongs> japtv is deader than *bsd
2019-07-12T19:28:42 < bitmask> rando link
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2019-07-12T19:32:08 < kakimir> yeah that electric airplane seem legit -> forward propulsion
2019-07-12T19:32:15 < kakimir> -> wings
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2019-07-12T19:38:12 < englishman> all you need
2019-07-12T19:39:04 -!- con3 [~kvirc@ml.sun.ac.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-07-12T19:39:22 < kakimir> -> proper amount of debt
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2019-07-12T19:41:42 < bitmask> I was listening to a podcast, I didnt realize elon musk proposed air as the source of lift over magnetism
2019-07-12T19:41:55 < bitmask> for the hyperloop
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2019-07-12T19:49:22 < kakimir> not a new thing
2019-07-12T19:49:48 < kakimir> hyperloop not vacuum after all?
2019-07-12T19:49:50 < bitmask> well it was proposed a long time ago so I dont expect it to be, I just didnt know 
2019-07-12T19:49:55 < bitmask> no, just low pressure
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2019-07-12T20:43:16 < jpa-> is anything even happening about hyperloop anymore? even the boring company ended up just making a boring car tunnel
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2019-07-12T21:16:47 < Steffanx> what is hyperloop?
2019-07-12T21:21:59 < qyx> idk, still nothing between wien and bratislava
2019-07-12T21:22:04 < qyx> they promised one
2019-07-12T21:25:51 < Cracki> elon musk is too busy with spacex and tesla so he left the idea in the care of fucking Virgin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Hyperloop_One
2019-07-12T21:30:06 < Cracki> they're moving around chess pieces on the board but only elon appears to have pushed any technology (tunnel boring)
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2019-07-12T21:32:27 < Ultrasauce> didnt they just buy an off the shelf tunneling machine
2019-07-12T21:43:22 < specing> because elon is one of the few that are not afraid to let the past go into history books
2019-07-12T21:44:41 < Ad0> https://coloradosun.com/2019/07/11/hyperloop-colorado-not-happening/
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2019-07-12T21:45:11 < specing> I don't understand why trains need conductors and I don't understand why they need drivers at all
2019-07-12T21:45:54 < specing> removing those would decrease operating costs here by 6k eur per month per train
2019-07-12T21:46:57 < Ad0> train is per definition a sub-par way of moving humans around
2019-07-12T21:47:10 < Ad0> literally all train stuff is heavily subsidized on top of the ticket price
2019-07-12T21:47:17 < Ad0> the real cost per head per km is huge
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2019-07-12T21:47:56 < Ad0> aren't a lot of subways automated?
2019-07-12T21:49:07 < Cracki> what's less sub-par than a train
2019-07-12T21:49:28 < Cracki> except its solvable inefficiencies such as humans "steering" it
2019-07-12T21:50:24 < Cracki> subway tubes are easier to secure (secure the ends) than open tracks, where anyone can scale a fence and walk on them from anywhere
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2019-07-12T21:50:39 < ds2> there are trains w/o conductors and drivers
2019-07-12T21:50:41 < Cracki> I hear lots of freight trains run automated
2019-07-12T21:50:49 < ds2> some of the airport trains rae like that
2019-07-12T21:50:50 < Cracki> fly by wire
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2019-07-12T21:51:31 < ds2> conductors, drivers, etc are combination of union artifacts and handling unexpected situations (i.e. elk is sitting on the tracks)
2019-07-12T21:51:38 < Cracki> if a freight train derails because something undetected blocks the tracks, it's just property damage
2019-07-12T21:51:52 < Cracki> let's just eradicate elks then
2019-07-12T21:52:14 < ds2> freight damage is bad... pisses off customers when their goods does not arrive
2019-07-12T21:52:20 < specing> Ad0: its subsidised like cars and busses and ...
2019-07-12T21:52:43 < Ad0> if you look in your country's budget
2019-07-12T21:53:00 < specing> Cracki: what does securing tracks have to do with autonomous trains?
2019-07-12T21:53:02 < Ad0> railroads cost a lot to maintain, you have to wait between trains because they can't go right after eachother etc
2019-07-12T21:53:13 < Ad0> if there's a small signal error, it all stops
2019-07-12T21:53:29 < Ad0> on normal roads you can just drive around on detours etc
2019-07-12T21:53:34 < Cracki> railroads are cheaper than roads
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2019-07-12T21:54:00 < Cracki> unless you count dirt roads as competing with high speed railways
2019-07-12T21:54:31 < Ad0> I dunno, maybe per meter, but not per meter per person that's getting transported I think
2019-07-12T21:54:34 < Cracki> advances only happen if you have a will to structure
2019-07-12T21:54:40 < Cracki> lol
2019-07-12T21:55:01 < Ad0> traffic and cars are constant stream, trains are not 
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2019-07-12T21:55:10 < specing> Ad0: it would be, if we hadn't spent the last 30 years massively investing into roads
2019-07-12T21:55:18 < Cracki> take 100 cars, all those people fit in one train carriage
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2019-07-12T21:55:31 < Ad0> yeah and then you have a huge gap of nothing 
2019-07-12T21:55:41 < Cracki> so increase frequency
2019-07-12T21:55:42 < Ad0> because you need a safety distance to the next train
2019-07-12T21:55:53 < specing> Ad0: if everyone was using trains, you could have a train every 5 minutes
2019-07-12T21:56:00 < Cracki> you need safety distances for cars too, when they go 160 km/h
2019-07-12T21:56:13 < Ad0> yeah but trains are magnitudes larger
2019-07-12T21:56:24 < Ad0> it's simply not possible
2019-07-12T21:56:28 < Cracki> lol
2019-07-12T21:56:36 -!- con3 [~kvirc@ml.sun.ac.za] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
2019-07-12T21:56:38 < specing> what is not possible
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2019-07-12T21:57:08 < Ad0> to have trains as tight as traffic or nearly as tight
2019-07-12T21:57:20 < Ad0> I don't think so at least
2019-07-12T21:57:34 < Ad0> I could be wrong about all this but I have been digging in my own country's budget
2019-07-12T21:57:38 < Cracki> call up your local public transportation people
2019-07-12T21:58:08 < Cracki> the very first argument for trains, trams, etc is that they have a LOT better capacity than busses or single cars
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2019-07-12T21:58:27 < Cracki> so even if they were more expensive, they're worth it
2019-07-12T21:58:29 < Ad0> well, that's if the trains were like a never ending train without pause
2019-07-12T21:58:33 < Cracki> no
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2019-07-12T21:58:49 < Cracki> are you trying to elicit a response or something?
2019-07-12T21:58:54 < Ad0> nope
2019-07-12T21:59:02 < Cracki> so you are!
2019-07-12T21:59:05 < Ad0> you can't compare it like that
2019-07-12T21:59:10 < Cracki> why not
2019-07-12T21:59:12 < Cracki> and how
2019-07-12T21:59:22 < Ad0> if you are comparing it like that, then you must account for the frequency of trains as well
2019-07-12T21:59:25 < Cracki> are you saying trains are a useless invention?
2019-07-12T21:59:35 < Ad0> trains with 10 meters distance between eachother
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2019-07-12T21:59:38 < Cracki> are you saying those people DON'T account for that?
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2019-07-12T22:00:08 < Cracki> you realize how long trains are?
2019-07-12T22:00:09 < Ad0> I hear "well you can fit 100 people into a train cart which is as big as 10 cars" and then you don't hear anything more
2019-07-12T22:00:17 < Cracki> I said 100 cars
2019-07-12T22:00:25 < Cracki> because no car can fit 10 people
2019-07-12T22:00:43 < Ad0> buses might be more efficient then
2019-07-12T22:00:49 < Cracki> but you're right, train carriages are about as large as 10 cars
2019-07-12T22:00:51 < Cracki> or less
2019-07-12T22:00:54 < Ad0> because they can house a lot of people but have short distance between eachother
2019-07-12T22:01:01 < Cracki> eh
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2019-07-12T22:01:09 < Cracki> you can't be convinced, you've made your mind up
2019-07-12T22:01:12 < specing> but busses need drivers
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2019-07-12T22:01:21 < Ad0> not if tesla makes them ;)
2019-07-12T22:01:24 < Cracki> you're trying to convince others, so that closes your mind to listening
2019-07-12T22:01:26 < Ad0> in 20 years hehe
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2019-07-12T22:06:37 < Ad0> the same goes for you, you can't be convinced either :P
2019-07-12T22:06:42 < Ad0> so I guess we just agree to disagree
2019-07-12T22:07:27 < Ad0> I am just saying that roads are more flexible than rails, you can't just change lanes for example
2019-07-12T22:07:34 < Ad0> and more dynamic
2019-07-12T22:07:37 < specing> cars need to be banned
2019-07-12T22:07:59 < Ad0> I am saving the world already, driving EV :)
2019-07-12T22:08:07 < specing> any vehicle that is heavier than 100kg/passenger
2019-07-12T22:08:10 < specing> should be banned
2019-07-12T22:08:13 < specing> for a start
2019-07-12T22:08:20 < specing> including your EV car
2019-07-12T22:08:24 < Ad0> haha and be replaced with what? heavy buses that has 2 passengers in it?
2019-07-12T22:08:29 < specing> electric tuktuks
2019-07-12T22:08:34 < specing> limited to 45km/h
2019-07-12T22:08:38 < Ad0> in winter
2019-07-12T22:08:50 < specing> Ad0: the cabin is covered
2019-07-12T22:08:56 < specing> so, yes.
2019-07-12T22:09:17 < Ad0> you can live in  thailand and philippines
2019-07-12T22:09:21 < Ad0> it's already there
2019-07-12T22:09:29 < specing> it needs to be everywhere
2019-07-12T22:09:35 < specing> and it needs to be battery electric
2019-07-12T22:10:17 < Ad0> I think someone made something like that
2019-07-12T22:10:56 < specing> there are electric tuk tuks being produced
2019-07-12T22:11:08 < specing> There are however two problems
2019-07-12T22:11:33 < specing> 1) People are used to sitting in a fat can on 4 wheels that can go 150km/h and this is socially acceptable behaviour
2019-07-12T22:12:08 < Ad0> haha
2019-07-12T22:12:11 < specing> 2) there are no fast inter-city trains that could load said tuktuks and transport you over long distances
2019-07-12T22:12:42 < specing> But I'm telling you, the only green future is what I said
2019-07-12T22:13:15 < Ad0> maybe compact fusion and alcubierre drives will come before that
2019-07-12T22:13:37 < specing> No, total ecosystem collapse will
2019-07-12T22:14:31 < Steffanx> <specing> limited to 45km/h. lol you
2019-07-12T22:15:19 < Ad0> just use nuclear power, zero co2 if you are worried about that
2019-07-12T22:15:26 < Ad0> I like EVs though, silent and has performance
2019-07-12T22:15:42 < specing> Ad0: the problem is not power generation
2019-07-12T22:15:46 < specing> the problem is storage
2019-07-12T22:16:01 < Ad0> of batteries?
2019-07-12T22:16:08 < specing> an electric tuk tuk needs 1/30 to 1/10 the battery capacity of an EV car
2019-07-12T22:16:10 < specing> yes Ad0 
2019-07-12T22:16:25 < Ad0> innovations will happen, just like what fiber did to copper
2019-07-12T22:16:35 < Ad0> it's just a transition period
2019-07-12T22:16:49 < specing> There is no time for a long transition period
2019-07-12T22:19:35 < specing> actually, there is no time for a transition period at all
2019-07-12T22:20:36 < specing> and there is no time to wait for any innovations in this area
2019-07-12T22:21:31 < Ad0> are you worried about battery waste ?
2019-07-12T22:23:29 < Ad0> fusion powered tuktuks
2019-07-12T22:23:55 < specing> No Ad0 
2019-07-12T22:24:05 < specing> The problem is a supply one
2019-07-12T22:24:30 < specing> there is no way anyone can build enough batteries to cover demand
2019-07-12T22:24:32 < specing> not even close
2019-07-12T22:24:58 < qyx> do you mean theres is not enough of lemons?
2019-07-12T22:25:07 < Steffanx> we should just all work from home, do everything from home. Go to the stores on a bicycle. problems solved
2019-07-12T22:25:19 < Ad0> the exact thing happened with copper, it got too expensive and innovation with fibreoptics happened (sand)
2019-07-12T22:25:30 < Ad0> it's a supply/demand issue
2019-07-12T22:26:10 < Ad0> now that tesla bought maxwell, they have some "dry" batteries that have higher battery density
2019-07-12T22:26:19 < Ad0> also you have those graphene batteries that never seem to surface
2019-07-12T22:28:21 < specing> the time to solve pollution problems was yesterday
2019-07-12T22:28:31 < specing> not "when dry batteries come"
2019-07-12T22:28:53 < Ad0> then we are doomed anyway
2019-07-12T22:28:57 < specing>  we are
2019-07-12T22:28:57 < Ad0> good luck convincing china
2019-07-12T22:29:05 < specing> this is band-aiding
2019-07-12T22:29:08 < Ad0> might as well enjoy the trip to hell :P
2019-07-12T22:29:14 < specing> convincing china?
2019-07-12T22:29:26 < specing> its more like china needs good luck to convince everyone else
2019-07-12T22:29:34 < Ad0> aren't they starting up a coal plant every hour?
2019-07-12T22:29:41 < specing> no
2019-07-12T22:29:48 < Ad0> every day then
2019-07-12T22:29:56 < specing> and they are starting up both coal and nuclear every week/month
2019-07-12T22:30:54 < Ad0> I am more worried about local pollution that you inhale than CO2 to be honest
2019-07-12T22:31:09 < specing> But the majority of pollution comes from transport and heating
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2019-07-12T22:31:17 < specing> not power generation
2019-07-12T22:31:48 < Ad0> yeah aren't those oil tankers polluting more than half the total amount of cars or something
2019-07-12T22:31:57 < specing> and coal powerplants can afford some filtering that car owners cannot
2019-07-12T22:32:22 < specing> those tankers are polluting a lot more
2019-07-12T22:32:36 < specing> the emissions are totally unregulated and they burn the lowest quality fuels
2019-07-12T22:32:47 < Ad0> I think they are burning the oil they transport
2019-07-12T22:33:55 < specing> nah
2019-07-12T22:34:34 < specing> they are burning the residue that remains after refinery is done extracting gasoline and others
2019-07-12T22:34:55 < mawk> so the highest carbon count fuels ?
2019-07-12T22:37:02 < specing> mawk: that'll be where my knowledge ends
2019-07-12T22:38:10 < specing> what is interesting is that an electric bicycle uses around 7-12 Wh/km at 25km/h
2019-07-12T22:38:27 < specing> whereas an electric car is 150-200 Wh/km at 120km/h
2019-07-12T22:41:18 < mawk> sounds right
2019-07-12T22:41:26 < mawk> if energy grows with the square of speed
2019-07-12T22:42:10 < specing> but a tuktuk train would have like 500-1000 Wh/km energy requirements
2019-07-12T22:42:22 < specing> at 120km/h
2019-07-12T22:42:38 < specing> while transporting hundreds of tuktuks and their drivers
2019-07-12T22:42:50 < specing> and being powered directly from the grid, no batteries necessary
2019-07-12T22:43:36 < Ad0> sounds like it should be fully autonomous
2019-07-12T22:43:52 < Ad0> if you could make a network of tuktuks forming into a train and then splitting up etc
2019-07-12T22:44:07 < specing> lol no
2019-07-12T22:44:21 < specing> the tuktuks are not designed for and cannot reach speeds of 120+ km/h
2019-07-12T22:44:32 < Ad0> super tuktuk
2019-07-12T22:44:52 < specing> you mean a car?
2019-07-12T22:44:59 < Ad0> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_v4aKTBcVc
2019-07-12T22:45:54 < Ad0> 119,5 ok. not 120+ :D
2019-07-12T22:46:06 < kakimir> electric tuktuks have landed in finland
2019-07-12T22:46:18 < Ad0> chances are that you can die 
2019-07-12T22:46:19 < kakimir> they use them for taxi service in summer
2019-07-12T22:46:30 < kakimir> in city areas
2019-07-12T22:46:32 < Ad0> not winter tuktuk with webasto?
2019-07-12T22:46:47 < kakimir> open cockpit
2019-07-12T22:46:50 < Ad0> kk
2019-07-12T22:47:26 < Ad0> when it looks the most grim , then all of a sudden there's a paradigm shift
2019-07-12T22:47:26 < kakimir> 119km/h... colin furze needs to take a look at that
2019-07-12T22:48:09 < kakimir> bbl>
2019-07-12T22:52:16 < Cracki> furze is german for "farts", in case you didn't need to know
2019-07-12T22:52:53 < Cracki> his parents must have known, so they named him colon
2019-07-12T22:58:11 < specing> kek
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2019-07-12T23:10:38 < superbia> evening pro Steffanx 
2019-07-12T23:15:28 < Steffanx> where?
2019-07-12T23:15:36 < superbia> to holiday
2019-07-12T23:15:47 < Steffanx> idk
2019-07-12T23:16:18 < superbia> ty
2019-07-12T23:16:23 < Steffanx> yw
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2019-07-12T23:16:55 < Steffanx> You're scary superbia. You talk like stvn/crt/jly/whatever nickname he uses.
2019-07-12T23:17:21 < superbia> who is that
2019-07-12T23:17:30 < Steffanx> idk
2019-07-12T23:17:54 < superbia> I only know you and the black dude Laurence
2019-07-12T23:18:04 < con3> fuck whoever keeps torrenting on this fuckn connection
2019-07-12T23:18:06 < Steffanx> hm
2019-07-12T23:18:15 < Steffanx> Sorry, con3. 
2019-07-12T23:18:32 < con3> sorry, wrong channe
2019-07-12T23:20:51 < superbia> any summer funtime projects Steffanx ?
2019-07-12T23:21:57 < Steffanx> not really. 
2019-07-12T23:21:58 < Steffanx> there?
2019-07-12T23:22:10 < superbia> not really.. sad me
2019-07-12T23:25:30 < superbia> shower & bedtime
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2019-07-12T23:28:40 < kakimir> Steffanx: superbia just rambling
2019-07-12T23:29:05 < kakimir> jly's rambles are eerie
2019-07-12T23:33:31 < mawk> I received my Luxembourg citizenship certificate
2019-07-12T23:35:48 < zyp> congrats
2019-07-12T23:36:50 < mawk> now I know where to hide my gold ingots
2019-07-12T23:39:27 < zyp> I considered driving down to luxembourg last summer, but never bothered
2019-07-12T23:40:44 < englishman> maybe you did and just drove right through without noticing
2019-07-12T23:40:49 < mawk> lol
2019-07-12T23:42:37 < zyp> no, I think it would have been another hour of driving southwards to get there
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2019-07-12T23:55:10 < kakimir> mawk: luxembourg huh?
2019-07-12T23:55:13 < kakimir> how? why?
2019-07-12T23:55:16 < kakimir> money and money?
2019-07-12T23:55:58 < mawk> because I have ancestry in luxembourg
2019-07-12T23:56:14 < mawk> so I was allowed to ask for citizenship recovery
2019-07-12T23:56:26 < kakimir> what do you plan to do with your citizenship?
2019-07-12T23:56:45 < mawk> nothing
2019-07-12T23:57:14 < mawk> transmit it to my children
2019-07-12T23:59:03 < kakimir> it may become useful some day
--- Day changed Sat Jul 13 2019
2019-07-13T00:01:36 < kakimir> is luxenbourg a place to live in?
2019-07-13T00:01:55 < mawk> it's quite small and ugly
2019-07-13T00:02:01 < mawk> but high quality of life
2019-07-13T00:02:38 < kakimir> I think a large portion of people with lux citizenship do not reside permanently in luxenbourg but idk
2019-07-13T00:03:10 < kakimir> almost like club
2019-07-13T00:03:22 < kakimir> or monaco or something
2019-07-13T00:03:25 < mawk> I have some family there
2019-07-13T00:03:38 < mawk> also maybe the ancestry I still have there
2019-07-13T00:03:41 < mawk> I have like luxembourg cousins
2019-07-13T00:03:50 < mawk> 48309th degree cousins
2019-07-13T00:05:15 < karlp> specing:don't transport the tuktuks, just pick upa new one at the other end
2019-07-13T00:05:32 < kakimir> tuktuk not very efficient
2019-07-13T00:05:54 < kakimir> it has open cockpit and it's aerodynamics are like crap
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2019-07-13T00:22:44 < karlp> hrm, so... got some bday cash, thinking of spending on it something "luxury" geeky, but not really sure what that should be.
2019-07-13T00:23:11 < karlp> replacing thhis 20year old $20 dmm is kinda high on the list, but... it's been enough so far...
2019-07-13T00:23:26 < Cracki> someone said tuktuks are better than trains and this is what happens
2019-07-13T00:23:35 < karlp> also, someone _new_
2019-07-13T00:23:54 < zyp> oh, I'm also in the «I only own a shitty cheap DMM» club
2019-07-13T00:23:56 < karlp> and they're probably even a c++ user....
2019-07-13T00:24:03 < Cracki> how shitty
2019-07-13T00:24:18 < ds2> what about a DMM calibrator?
2019-07-13T00:24:46 < Cracki> I think mine has some trimpots or something in it but the manual said nothing about calibration
2019-07-13T00:24:59 < karlp> mine's _marginally_ better than this one: https://www.dicksmith.com.au/da/buy/lcd-digital-multimeter-200v-1000v-safety-probes-dt830d/
2019-07-13T00:25:01 < Cracki> which is probably true for many "cheap" ones
2019-07-13T00:25:16 < karlp> it has a transister socket thingyu, and has a squarewave output that you use for.... something
2019-07-13T00:26:16 < karlp> there we go: https://www.dicksmith.com.au/da/buy/lcd-digital-multimeter-200v-1000v-safety-probes-dt830d/
2019-07-13T00:26:20 < karlp> doh
2019-07-13T00:26:23 < karlp> https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/digital-multimeter-4701525273.html
2019-07-13T00:26:29 < karlp> mine has a different name on it, but it's that one.
2019-07-13T00:26:50 < karlp> $3.65 USD
2019-07-13T00:29:42 < qyx> buy a tuktuk then
2019-07-13T00:30:05 < karlp> i already havhe too many vehicles
2019-07-13T00:30:15 < karlp> I have one that I need to motivate myself to try and sell.
2019-07-13T00:30:26 < karlp> I sure as fuck don't need any more vehicles
2019-07-13T00:31:02 < karlp> man, releasing software is tedious when you have to put tags on 5? different repos first.
2019-07-13T00:38:14 < karlp> 7, now that I've counted.
2019-07-13T00:38:20 < karlp> there must be a better way.
2019-07-13T00:39:06 < karlp> I don't feel like I'm goign to get enough scope for $400 or so, what else is cool?
2019-07-13T00:40:59 < qyx> buy a tree
2019-07-13T00:41:24 < qyx> I noticed there are not many trees in .is
2019-07-13T00:41:26 < karlp> for the garden? or you mean, like subscribe to trees planted somewhere in myh name?
2019-07-13T00:41:31 < karlp> there's more than there was :)
2019-07-13T00:42:16 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvM82T3C2Ik
2019-07-13T00:43:30 < qyx> for the garden.. I was given a pine tree for my bday, it likes our garden
2019-07-13T00:45:41 < karlp> I want to dig up some more flower beds this autumn, I still don't have enough summer flowers.
2019-07-13T00:45:51 < karlp> I'm not putting any new trees in here though
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2019-07-13T00:51:15 < Thorn> why "simulation not enabled for this design" in webwench
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2019-07-13T01:22:53 < kakimir> you made illegal design!
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2019-07-13T02:27:22 < specing> Which type of clamps is better suited for ~10mm^2 wire? Will have to carry 500-1000A for under a hundred miliseconds. https://framapic.org/KxNAFxbJUpYY/PMlwqcva1ZG8.png
2019-07-13T02:27:39 < specing> My guess is the left one is better as it does not butcher the wire in the process
2019-07-13T02:28:11 < specing> Though the right one would be better if there was a flat surface under the screws, so the screws do not directly go into the wire
2019-07-13T02:43:05 < Thorn> kakimir: all 58 of them?
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2019-07-13T02:57:18 < Thorn> 1 euro cpld https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32965609577.html
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2019-07-13T03:03:17 < Cracki> google says intel/altera https://datasheet.ciiva.com/26806/epm240t100c5n-26806819.pdf
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2019-07-13T03:14:00 < specing> I guess I need ferrules
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2019-07-13T03:32:33 < englishman> karlp: get dat keithley touchscreen dmm
2019-07-13T03:33:01 < englishman> also happy birthday! 🍰
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2019-07-13T03:55:25 < karlp> thanks man
2019-07-13T03:55:48 < karlp> was looking at some of these brymen ones, but also curious what you get with a keithly/keysight "fancy" one
2019-07-13T04:18:30 < ohsix> sup
2019-07-13T04:19:12 < ohsix> TheSeven: new aliexpress suxxx, but the script still works if you use something like requestly to set switch_new_app=n
2019-07-13T04:19:36 < ohsix> requestly can also set isunitprice and the like too
2019-07-13T04:21:20 < englishman> keysight is fucking trash
2019-07-13T04:22:01 < englishman> 300 samples/sec what is this 1959?
2019-07-13T04:22:07 < ohsix> hm neato. overriding switch_new_app=n also unbreaks awesomebar searches
2019-07-13T04:24:59 < englishman> as an extra kick in the teeth keysight charges extra for basic fucking PC software
2019-07-13T04:25:16 < englishman> just to make sure they squeeze every last dime out of your company before they repo all your shit
2019-07-13T04:25:33 < englishman> fuck keysight
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2019-07-13T04:56:52 < Thorn> lol @ webwench. it won't show me a lm3481 design for my parameters because it's slightly beyond what they consider acceptable gain/phase margin
2019-07-13T04:57:26 < Thorn> lm5022 design with same parameters is ok though, but webwench doesn't have a bode chart for it at all
2019-07-13T04:58:23 < Thorn> also happy birthday karlp 
2019-07-13T05:00:32 < jly> would tina-ti get you anywhere with that dog?
2019-07-13T05:02:17 < jly> webench makes me projectile vomit
2019-07-13T05:03:53 < Thorn> maybe it could
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2019-07-13T05:24:15 < ohsix> heheheheh redirects for their new flow on aliexpress are the thing tripping up the bot stuff
2019-07-13T05:24:39 < ohsix> i thought it was just more sensitive with the redesign cuz they're trying to shake off bot arbitrage or something, but it isn't
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2019-07-13T05:32:05 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVzngxFMsGs
2019-07-13T05:42:46 < Cracki> lol f103cbt6
2019-07-13T05:42:57 < Cracki> like there aren't other ones
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2019-07-13T06:20:00 < jly> GROG
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2019-07-13T06:36:11 < ohsix> nar
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2019-07-13T07:20:01 < dongs> sup pro dongs
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2019-07-13T08:51:23 < fenugrec> wtfshit, the F042 in qfp32 is 1 pin away from being able to do usb+can simultaneously. geez, how hard would it have been
2019-07-13T08:51:55 < fenugrec> they really had to put everything on those two damn pins
2019-07-13T08:54:20 < dongs> uh
2019-07-13T08:54:32 < dongs> i recall very well that there's a CFG remap for USB pins
2019-07-13T08:54:36 < dongs> did you try that one?
2019-07-13T08:55:21 < dongs> PA11_PA12_RMP 
2019-07-13T08:55:27 < dongs> oh, it only works on 28/20 pinm packages
2019-07-13T08:55:44 < fenugrec> dongs, I'm just looking at the pin listing in the DS, I thought that had all the possibilities, hold on
2019-07-13T08:55:45 < dongs> anyway it prolly has the same problem as f1 with usb + can about sharing buffers
2019-07-13T08:55:55 < fenugrec> nah, they fixed the stupid buffers in F0
2019-07-13T08:56:11 < fenugrec> you split the 1kB buffer as desired
2019-07-13T08:56:45 < dongs> ya remap only works for qfn28 and tssop20.
2019-07-13T08:57:10 < fenugrec> ooh, if it works on tsop20 that'd do the trick
2019-07-13T08:58:38 < fenugrec> hmm, it's not clear to me if I can get "PA9,10 functionality" on PA11,12 -- useless -- or the opposite
2019-07-13T08:59:08 < dongs> Pin pair PA11/12 can be remapped in place of pin pair PA9/10 using the SYSCFG_CFGR1 register.
2019-07-13T08:59:14 < qyx> you can get can on tssop20 and qfn28 sing emap
2019-07-13T09:02:45 < fenugrec> sooo... it should work with the remap ? I'm still having trouble digesting this... I would configure PA11-12 AF as CAN, and magically PA11 still works as USB ?
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2019-07-13T09:03:48 < fenugrec> wait, that's dumb. PA11 is the same pin as PA9, I gain nothing
2019-07-13T09:07:27 < fenugrec> yep can't work. What a horrible pin mapping. But thank goodness I can use a bazillion useless UARTs at the same time on all the pins
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2019-07-13T11:09:16 < Steffanx> Wlcm
2019-07-13T11:09:24 < jly> gooday sport
2019-07-13T11:10:09 < jly> Stephen,
2019-07-13T11:10:19 < jly> how do you like my new, drugs?
2019-07-13T11:13:59 < Steffanx> What colour?
2019-07-13T11:20:59 < jly> idk
2019-07-13T11:21:06 < jly> burgundy? 
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2019-07-13T11:31:52 < Steffanx> :)
2019-07-13T11:45:20 < jly> feels like I derailed a train
2019-07-13T12:09:19 < Steffanx> You got yourself a deal mate!
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2019-07-13T12:17:17 < jly> lol
2019-07-13T12:20:49 < jly> now don't drop the fuckin' thing alright?
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2019-07-13T12:48:17 < jly> ty
2019-07-13T12:52:15 < Steffanx> yw
2019-07-13T13:03:09 < jly> how are the ARM devices sir?
2019-07-13T13:03:21 < antto> armed and dangerous
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2019-07-13T14:18:55 < karlp> yeah, pa11/12 remap seems to only let you choose between usart1 or usb.  You can get CAN_RX on PB8, but there's no PB9 on the smaller two packages.
2019-07-13T14:18:59 < karlp> seems kinda lame indeed.
2019-07-13T14:32:43 < qyx> how so, I used CAN on qfn28
2019-07-13T14:33:45 < qyx> oh can+usb
2019-07-13T14:34:17 < qyx> I remember having trouble getting CAN and I2C at the same time
2019-07-13T14:37:36 < qyx> https://canable.io this thing has bigger poackage
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2019-07-13T14:54:17 < zyp> I have a f042 thing doing can and usb, but that's some qfn package
2019-07-13T14:54:59 < zyp> as for qfp32, it's a kinda pointless package considering it's the exact same physical size as qfp48
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2019-07-13T14:56:04 < karlp> the problem only seems to affect tssop 20 and 28
2019-07-13T14:56:37 < karlp> sorry tssop20 and qfn28
2019-07-13T14:56:49 < karlp> but yeah, qfp32 seems to be just for doing shitty quality soldering level
2019-07-13T14:57:44 < zyp> yeah, coarser pitch makes it a bit easier to solder, but the difference is kinda insignificant
2019-07-13T14:58:04 < zyp> even 0.5mm pitch is easy enough to do at home
2019-07-13T14:58:12 < karlp> I can only presume it was based on some manufacturers request, based on their yield from some shit process
2019-07-13T14:58:22 < karlp> there's no other reason for it, as you say, it's the same _size_ as the qfp48
2019-07-13T15:08:05 < jpa-> it could potentially be for market segmentation (shittier parts for cheaper), but not sure if it is even any cheaper
2019-07-13T15:08:22 < Steffanx> i just looked at it, does not seem to be the case
2019-07-13T15:08:25 < Steffanx> same price
2019-07-13T15:08:26 < Steffanx> according to ST
2019-07-13T15:09:15 < Steffanx> oh maybe a litt;e
2019-07-13T15:10:43 < karlp> it's gotta be yield
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2019-07-13T15:39:03 < englishman> it's gotta be: retarded french interns
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2019-07-13T15:57:30 < englishman> cool, iotawatt has been within 0.5% of the utility's meter
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2019-07-13T16:50:07 < TheSeven> ohsix: I fully agree that the new design sucks, but I haven't observed any functional change - the script seems to work fine for me, without any new request arguments
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2019-07-13T17:54:52 < salcedo> it was much easier to just look in the included Drivers directory created by stm32cubemx than to try to find documentation about HAL on the web
2019-07-13T17:55:23 < Cracki> cubemx has chm files or something containing some kind of doxygen barf
2019-07-13T17:55:31 < salcedo> eww
2019-07-13T17:55:43 < salcedo> easier to look at the source code
2019-07-13T17:55:44 < Cracki> but yes, they haven't figured out yet that docs belong on the internet
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2019-07-13T17:56:01 < salcedo> i was able to blink all the blinky things on my nucleo-144 within a few minutes after i unboxed it.
2019-07-13T17:56:21 < salcedo> will probably stick with HAL until i know wtf i am doing
2019-07-13T18:01:41 < aandrew> salcedo> easier to look at the source code
2019-07-13T18:01:43 < aandrew> exactly what I do
2019-07-13T18:01:59 < aandrew> the HAL is actually pretty consistent
2019-07-13T18:10:29 < salcedo> i'm having trouble grasping how interrupts work in stm32cubemx
2019-07-13T18:10:55 < mawk> you enable them in the NVIC peripheral in cube
2019-07-13T18:10:57 < salcedo> suppose i have a SPI device that sets a pin high when there is data to be received
2019-07-13T18:11:15 < mawk> then interrupt handler code will be generated which will in turn call the HAL api
2019-07-13T18:11:23 < mawk> so, just enable in NVIC, work out the priorities, and see the rest in the HAL
2019-07-13T18:11:36 < mawk> don't touch the interrupt code themselves, use the HAL callbacks
2019-07-13T18:12:20 < salcedo> i already see quite a few enabled
2019-07-13T18:12:56 < salcedo> i can enable SPI1 global interrupt.
2019-07-13T18:13:11 < salcedo> i don't think this is what i want
2019-07-13T18:14:20 < mawk> yes it's what you wwant
2019-07-13T18:14:25 < mawk> now the interrupt is enabled, generate the code
2019-07-13T18:14:35 < mawk> and now see in the HAL spi source code which callbacks you need to provide
2019-07-13T18:14:46 < mawk> and they will be called when their relevant condition will be present
2019-07-13T18:14:54 < Cracki> hold on
2019-07-13T18:15:00 < Cracki> the spi SLAVE gives an interrupt
2019-07-13T18:15:03 < salcedo> i'm assuming that is an interrupt that gets triggered when an spi slave sends data? that's not exactly what i want.
2019-07-13T18:15:16 < Cracki> so the stm32 sees that as a gpio ext interrupt
2019-07-13T18:15:23 < mawk> the "SPI interrupt" in NVIC is any kind of interrupt hte SPI peripheral is able to raise, salcedo 
2019-07-13T18:15:23 < salcedo> correct
2019-07-13T18:15:35 < mawk> it's not just one
2019-07-13T18:15:36 < Cracki> so you have that, and from that handler you do whatever you need
2019-07-13T18:16:03 < salcedo> the spi peripheral doesn't raise interrupts via SPI though.
2019-07-13T18:16:07 < Cracki> mawk, take a step back, I think you misread his situation
2019-07-13T18:16:10 < salcedo> it sets a pin high
2019-07-13T18:16:19 < mawk> ah he's doing a slave ?
2019-07-13T18:16:24 < Cracki> that's ordinary external interrupt
2019-07-13T18:16:26 < Cracki> no
2019-07-13T18:16:40 < mawk> ah, the spi peripheral is external
2019-07-13T18:16:40 < Cracki> he's doing the master, and the slave has an interrupt output signal
2019-07-13T18:16:43 < mawk> it has a #IRQ pin
2019-07-13T18:16:48 < salcedo> mawk: correct
2019-07-13T18:16:58 < mawk> yes then in NVIC you enable the correct external interrupt
2019-07-13T18:17:02 < salcedo> EXTI line?
2019-07-13T18:17:07 < mawk> yes, the correct one
2019-07-13T18:17:15 < mawk> which pin is it ?
2019-07-13T18:17:27 < salcedo> i don't know yet :)
2019-07-13T18:17:52 < salcedo> it says EXTI line[15:10] interrupts
2019-07-13T18:18:20 < salcedo> i'm guessing that means there are 5 pins that can be "watched" this way
2019-07-13T18:18:29 < mawk> yes then I guess it's P[ABC]10 to P[ABC]15 or something
2019-07-13T18:18:39 < salcedo> right.
2019-07-13T18:18:45 < salcedo> i'll click it and see what happens
2019-07-13T18:19:37 < mawk> it will generate a handler for you, and same thing as before when I was talking of the SPI peripheral
2019-07-13T18:19:46 < salcedo> hmm.. it didn't claim any pins that i can see
2019-07-13T18:19:51 < mawk> you fulfill the HAL callback it's like void exti_callback(int pin_number);
2019-07-13T18:20:00 < bitmask> boop
2019-07-13T18:20:02 < mawk> yes it doesn't claim pins by itself, you need to set them up now
2019-07-13T18:20:11 < mawk> in the pin view select a relevant pin and put it in EXTI mode
2019-07-13T18:21:10 < salcedo> i can use pretty much any pin?
2019-07-13T18:21:35 < mawk> with the correct number
2019-07-13T18:21:50 < mawk> if you use EXTI 10 to 15, then select a pin 10 to 15
2019-07-13T18:22:01 < mawk> I don't know if it's always that kind of mapping, the reference manual says it all
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2019-07-13T18:22:25 < salcedo> interesting.
2019-07-13T18:22:29 < Cracki> all P[A-Z]n go to EXTIn
2019-07-13T18:22:37 < salcedo> just noticed that
2019-07-13T18:22:48 < Cracki> so in that handler, you test the port you suspect caused it
2019-07-13T18:23:02 < salcedo> i see that i can assign, for example, PD9 to GPIO_EXTI9
2019-07-13T18:23:03 < Cracki> (if there are multiple that are enabled to)
2019-07-13T18:23:11 < salcedo> but this is not in the range 10-15
2019-07-13T18:23:19 < Cracki> then you use exti9 for that
2019-07-13T18:23:23 < mawk> then enable the EXTI [0:10] interrupt line
2019-07-13T18:24:00 < Cracki> I'm used to every number having its own interrupt, so you have 16 different ones
2019-07-13T18:24:04 < salcedo> there isn't one
2019-07-13T18:24:12 < salcedo> mawk: there isn't an EXTI [0:10]
2019-07-13T18:24:12 < Cracki> show us things
2019-07-13T18:24:29 < Cracki> show us what you have instead
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2019-07-13T18:24:33 < mawk> in the NVIC peripheral what do you see waiting to be enabled ?
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2019-07-13T18:25:53 < salcedo> https://postimg.cc/8JJ1NTbJ
2019-07-13T18:26:02 < Cracki> the nvic only lists things once you've set them to exti in the pinout view
2019-07-13T18:26:22 < salcedo> this project was initialized from the boards manager for a nucleo-144 (l496zg)
2019-07-13T18:26:34 < Cracki> so if you enable pd9 to do exti, you'll get *something* in the nvic saying EXTI line[...] interrupts
2019-07-13T18:26:38 < Cracki> with appropriate numbers
2019-07-13T18:26:45 < salcedo> ok let me check
2019-07-13T18:26:51 < Cracki> btw, [max:min] is the notation, with max and min inclusive
2019-07-13T18:27:05 < salcedo> Cracki: yes!
2019-07-13T18:27:21 < fenugrec> I must highlight this again : the F042 has USB and CAN; can't use both except on the biggest qfp package. They put both functions on the same damn pins on all the other packages, with no remapping possible.
2019-07-13T18:27:37 < salcedo> when i set up a gpio to do exti9, i now see EXTI[9:5] interrupts
2019-07-13T18:31:22 < Thorn> no remapping for usb is understandable, there's a builtin phy, but why no remapping for CAN?
2019-07-13T18:32:15 < karlp> there is remapping for can, but only to pins that are only on the qfp48
2019-07-13T18:32:24 < karlp> it's kinda weird, 
2019-07-13T18:32:41 < karlp> you can have can_rx on the small packges, with usb, but you can't get can_tx until you get to qfp48
2019-07-13T18:39:28 < fenugrec> I see no reason not to remap the can* pins. They like to have them on 5v-tolerant pins, but there's always a bunch of others anyway
2019-07-13T18:40:03 < karlp> doesn't matter now though does it. you can't. move on with your life, or let it eat you up inside :)
2019-07-13T18:40:23 < fenugrec> yeah it's almost out of my system now
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2019-07-13T18:42:44 < salcedo> ok this makes sense now.
2019-07-13T18:43:02 < salcedo> time to make a uart -> spi bridge so i can play
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2019-07-13T19:36:15 < Thorn> if in CCM flyback duty cycle stays almost constant (for the same Vin) regardless of Iout, how does it regulate Vout then
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2019-07-13T19:52:40 < bitmask> man, if I knew this print was gonna take 60 hours I would have printed other stuff first
2019-07-13T19:53:14 < Steffanx> print another printer
2019-07-13T19:53:18 < bitmask> i know right?
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2019-07-13T20:01:54 < disposabled[m]> is there any reason that itm over pb3 on an stm32f103 would interfere with quad encoder on pb6 and pb7?
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2019-07-13T20:09:01 < Cracki> does it?
2019-07-13T20:17:05 < disposabled[m]> I was reading an encoder and printing the counter with semihosting. I switched from semihosting to itm an my couner suddenly only reads 0 or 1
2019-07-13T20:22:51 < disposabled[m]> nm. I'm stupid
2019-07-13T20:23:05 < Steffanx> yw
2019-07-13T20:24:15 < Cracki> share with the class
2019-07-13T20:24:20 < Cracki> what didn't you do
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2019-07-13T20:38:50 < onio> I am having problem getting STM32-ST-Link clone to work anyone that can help here?
2019-07-13T20:39:38 < invzim> onio: get a segger clone
2019-07-13T20:39:43 < invzim> (seriously)
2019-07-13T20:40:36 < disposabled[m]> Cracki: I was just reading the output straight without treating it like itm
2019-07-13T20:41:18 < Cracki> onio, start talking, nobody's gonna prompt you
2019-07-13T20:41:22 < onio> invzim thanks
2019-07-13T20:41:36 < onio> Cracki thanks
2019-07-13T20:41:38 < Cracki> disposabled[m], itm has framing, yes
2019-07-13T20:41:53 < disposabled[m]> parsing itm made everything make sense
2019-07-13T20:42:24 < Cracki> staring at itm as if it were ascii or even just bytes, shouldn't look like "just toggling between 0 and 1"
2019-07-13T20:42:45 < onio> I was trying to use this clone with stm32 blue pill board(I think that is what it is called)
2019-07-13T20:42:58 < onio> The boards has the stm32f103c8 
2019-07-13T20:43:20 < Cracki> open the stlink up, post pics of the labeling on the pcb
2019-07-13T20:43:35 < disposabled[m]> onio: yes. what are you doing with the stlink that isn't working?
2019-07-13T20:43:37 < Cracki> then post link to pinout of whatever target you have there
2019-07-13T20:45:07 < onio> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32278016818.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.8.3f921e02BWr9Hd&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_6_10065_10130_10068_10547_319_317_10548_10696_10192_10190_453_10084_454_10083_10618_10307_10820_10301_10821_10303_537_536_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103%2Csearchweb201603_53%2CppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=94d65acb-ae53-4c28-b0b6-3b8a47acb5e0-1&algo_pvid=94d65acb-ae53-4c28-b0b6-3b8a47acb5e0&transAbTest=ae803_5
2019-07-13T20:47:14 < disposabled[m]> onio: what didn't work about it?
2019-07-13T20:47:23 < onio> this is what I get https://imgur.com/a/MyO7l3F
2019-07-13T20:48:04 < onio> can not connected to openocd or use use 
2019-07-13T20:48:06 < disposabled[m]> how did you wire it?
2019-07-13T20:48:33 < Cracki> irrelevant
2019-07-13T20:48:38 < Cracki> firmware update only needs usb to work
2019-07-13T20:48:42 < Cracki> so something is fucked
2019-07-13T20:48:51 < Cracki> disconnect it completely
2019-07-13T20:49:02 < Cracki> only plug it into usb, no pins attached
2019-07-13T20:49:16 < Cracki> then see if firmware update (of the stlink itself) works
2019-07-13T20:49:37 < onio> (2) SWCLK (4)SWDI (6) GND (8) 3.3V
2019-07-13T20:51:21 < disposabled[m]> stm32f103xx ref man, page 376 seems to contradict itself in the last two paragraphs.
2019-07-13T20:52:09 < disposabled[m]> first it says that the counter "just counts continuously between 0 and auto-reload value"
2019-07-13T20:52:48 < disposabled[m]> then it says, "always represents the encoder's position"
2019-07-13T20:54:47 < onio> my connection https://imgur.com/a/6IiQNUJ
2019-07-13T20:55:16 < onio> https://imgur.com/a/QJcCUkr
2019-07-13T20:55:45 < jpa-> disposabled[m]: hm, can't see that on page 376, which section? (or which revision of document)
2019-07-13T20:56:42 < disposabled[m]> jpa-: section 15.3.12, doc id 13902 rev 14
2019-07-13T20:57:22 < disposabled[m]> figure 134 on the next page seems to support the latter statement
2019-07-13T20:57:22 < jpa-> newest is 20, explains why page numbers don't match
2019-07-13T20:57:41 < disposabled[m]> ah. I'll re-google
2019-07-13T20:59:01 < jpa-> the second to last paragraph is techically correct, though misleading
2019-07-13T20:59:18 < jpa-> by "continuously" it means "on every external clock edge, the clock coming from the encoder interface"
2019-07-13T20:59:36 < onio> when trying to use open ocd I get the following message. https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/r4ZskyJzKt/
2019-07-13T20:59:53 < jpa-> the point of the second-to-last paragraph is that if you set ARR to 255, position will wrap from 255 to 0
2019-07-13T21:00:36 < jpa-> onio: does it exit or stay there? it looks like normal operation with some warnings
2019-07-13T21:01:44 < salcedo> hrm
2019-07-13T21:02:01 < salcedo> HAL_UART_Receive_IT only returns HAL_OK or HAL_BUSY
2019-07-13T21:02:21 < salcedo> is there a way to catch when there is data to be received?
2019-07-13T21:02:28 < salcedo> e.g. it's in a FIFO
2019-07-13T21:02:43 < jpa-> check the RXNE bit in status register
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2019-07-13T21:04:09 < onio> jpa no it does not start the openocd service. When I use a the stm32l073 nucleo board and run the openocd command it goes into a state where it starts to wait for commands
2019-07-13T21:08:50 < Cracki> receive_IT means interrupts are involved. that's how you get told that stuff has arrived
2019-07-13T21:09:25 < salcedo> jpa-: yep that worked.
2019-07-13T21:10:09 < salcedo> jpa-: thanks. I'm using __HAL_UART_GET_FLAG(&huart3, UART_FLAG_RXNE, SET) to grab 1 byte and echo it back. works.
2019-07-13T21:11:25 < jpa-> :)
2019-07-13T21:12:43 < salcedo> however... if i start adding HAL_Delay into the same loop that does this "if flag is set, receive 1 byte from fifo and transmit it back", it freezes up.
2019-07-13T21:14:19 < onio> This what I expect to see when openocd is communicating with the board okay. This example is showing message when nucleo board is connected stm32l073
2019-07-13T21:14:22 < onio> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/WkRTjpHWq8/
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2019-07-13T21:38:28 < Laurenceb> <Cracki> met a boy once. if I had a car and a basement, he'd have been mine forever
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2019-07-13T21:46:34 < kakimir> cats please
2019-07-13T21:48:33 < Steffanx> no ty
2019-07-13T21:48:46 < Steffanx> try stm32 telegram for cats kakimir
2019-07-13T21:48:57 < kakimir> telegram too hard
2019-07-13T21:49:02 < Steffanx> ok
2019-07-13T21:49:15 < kakimir> also irc is the only chat
2019-07-13T21:49:20 < Steffanx> ok
2019-07-13T21:49:38 < kakimir> is there good pumps there?
2019-07-13T21:49:53 < Steffanx> perhaps
2019-07-13T21:50:10 < qyx> is there a stm32 telegram?
2019-07-13T21:51:14 < Steffanx> yeah
2019-07-13T21:51:24 < qyx> interesting
2019-07-13T21:51:26 < qyx> good chats?
2019-07-13T21:51:47 < qyx> is that thing worth installing?
2019-07-13T21:52:28 < Steffanx> nah
2019-07-13T21:52:48 < Steffanx> its mainly cats and sometimes mr d asking question and peterm answering.
2019-07-13T21:53:24 < qyx> so no quality pumps
2019-07-13T21:53:28 < kakimir> mr d there? :o
2019-07-13T21:54:45 < Steffanx> stvn is there, so pumps you  got as well qyx
2019-07-13T21:55:11 < Steffanx> but to be honest, i have no clue why the channel actually exists
2019-07-13T21:55:37 < qyx> much crypto
2019-07-13T21:56:02 < qyx> just to pollute some other namespace
2019-07-13T21:56:21 < Steffanx> i guess
2019-07-13T22:00:49 < Laurenceb> oh wow https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/45bdcd7a-1cb1-4ad1-a3e0-ebc2a05243ac
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2019-07-13T22:06:27 < Mangy_Dog> should i know what an incel is?
2019-07-13T22:06:28 < Mangy_Dog> or care?
2019-07-13T22:07:14 < Laurenceb> for mining copypastas
2019-07-13T22:07:29 < Laurenceb> >Kissless Handholdless, Hugless Virgin (KHHV
2019-07-13T22:07:40 < Laurenceb> irl kekking hard
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2019-07-13T22:23:24 < kakimir> are you reflecting your life throught these lulzy articles Laurenceb?
2019-07-13T22:23:33 < kakimir> </roast>
2019-07-13T22:23:59 < Cracki> brits can't be roasted, they're eternally soggy
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2019-07-13T22:41:17 < salcedo> ok cool. i'm digging this.
2019-07-13T22:41:38 < salcedo> so far i can do gpio, uart, now i'm going to try writing a driver for this rfm95w lora transceiver
2019-07-13T22:42:16 < salcedo> also can do analog, but i'm not sure if i'm doing it the "proper" way
2019-07-13T22:43:01 < salcedo> https://pastebin.com/2a49jH5U
2019-07-13T22:43:04 < salcedo> ^ seems legit?
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2019-07-13T22:45:39 < Cracki> _IT functions are for when you use interrupts
2019-07-13T22:45:42 < Cracki> are you using interrupts
2019-07-13T22:45:57 < qyx> yet another rfm95w driver?
2019-07-13T22:46:01 < qyx> ask Thorn for his codez
2019-07-13T22:46:37 < salcedo> Cracki: i turned on the uart3 interrupt, yes.
2019-07-13T22:47:24 < salcedo> though i'm still confused about the blocking UART_Transmit stuff and the timeout.
2019-07-13T22:48:27 < salcedo> what would cause the TXE flag not to reset and thus timeout exceed?
2019-07-13T22:49:18 < Cracki> all the reasons are in the ref manual
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2019-07-13T23:19:24 < Ad0> I need to make a "router" from UART 1,2 to UART 3, and the other way as well, marking the data with a byte that tells where they come from to UART 3, and the opposite from UART 3. Is there a way to do this without knowing the lengths of the data in advance?
2019-07-13T23:26:00 < effractur> chuck the data in a fixed size
2019-07-13T23:26:05 < effractur> add a pre / post byte
2019-07-13T23:28:27 < effractur> or modify the control flow to specify who is sending
2019-07-13T23:32:41 < Ad0> thanks!
2019-07-13T23:33:17 < karlp> onio: your command lines are useful context too
2019-07-13T23:34:05 < effractur> Ad0: and why specificly uart?
2019-07-13T23:35:43 < Ad0> that's what I am given so to speak :)
2019-07-13T23:37:50 < karlp> man, new digikey is teh suck
2019-07-13T23:38:04 < karlp> busted links all the time, wayyyy more whitespace wasint realestate
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2019-07-13T23:44:10 < Ad0> I like RS components
2019-07-13T23:44:33 < Ad0> but they don't always have the stuff I need so then I resort to digikey etc
--- Day changed Sun Jul 14 2019
2019-07-14T00:14:42 < mawk> RS has nice packaging
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2019-07-14T00:33:23 < Thorn> is there a downside to adding more gap than necessary? calculator I'm using shows lower flux density and other numbers aren't really getting worse
2019-07-14T00:34:07 < mawk> like clearance gap ?
2019-07-14T00:34:46 < aandrew> dat gap
2019-07-14T00:35:52 < Thorn> air gap
2019-07-14T00:35:56 < Thorn> in a flyback transformer
2019-07-14T00:36:10 < mawk> a
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2019-07-14T00:38:42 < mawk> well increasing air gap size greatly increases reluctance 
2019-07-14T00:38:52 < mawk> I don't think you shouldn't add more gap than necessary
2019-07-14T00:38:59 < mawk> I don't think you should*
2019-07-14T00:41:07 < aandrew> so you're saying that you should be reluctant to add more reluctance
2019-07-14T00:41:16 < mawk> lol
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2019-07-14T00:47:38 < Thorn> lol turns out my E10 core has larger area than E13 
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2019-07-14T01:05:35 < salcedo> Thorn: i don't want to see your code because it will ruin me.
2019-07-14T01:05:58 < Thorn> wat
2019-07-14T01:06:05 < Thorn> who said anything about my code
2019-07-14T01:07:26 < salcedo> Thorn: here's my SPI1 parameter settings for an RF95 lora module: data size 8 bits, msb first, prescaler 32 (2.0 Mbit/s), CPOL Low, CPHA 1 edge, NSS Signal Type Software
2019-07-14T01:10:34 < Thorn> fascinating
2019-07-14T01:10:49 < Thorn> (also looks correct)
2019-07-14T01:11:38 < salcedo> ok. here's what i'm doing to try to grab the version.
2019-07-14T01:12:05 < salcedo> https://pastebin.com/01gijgdy
2019-07-14T01:12:40 < salcedo> it should return 0x11, but returns 0x00
2019-07-14T01:12:53 < Thorn> are you resetting it properly?
2019-07-14T01:13:11 < Thorn> it has a world's first reset input that MUST be floated after reset
2019-07-14T01:13:26 < Thorn> s/a/the/
2019-07-14T01:14:12 < salcedo> hmmm... no
2019-07-14T01:14:24 < salcedo> i currently have the reset pin of the rf95 floating. not connected to anything.
2019-07-14T01:14:37 < salcedo> the datasheet says it resets on powerup
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2019-07-14T01:16:26 < Thorn> try the rece
2019-07-14T01:16:32 < Thorn> reset procedure
2019-07-14T01:16:58 < Thorn> pull nrst low, wait 1 ms, set it to input, wait 6 ms, read the 0x42 register
2019-07-14T01:18:11 < Thorn> also if you have rfm95w it should return 0x12 not 0x11 but any value other than 0x00/0xff will be a win
2019-07-14T01:18:19 < salcedo> yeeeeep :)
2019-07-14T01:18:25 < salcedo> the issue wasn't the reset line
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2019-07-14T01:18:52 < salcedo> i changed the chip select line in cubemx but forgot to move the jumper wire
2019-07-14T01:19:03 < salcedo> because i was trying to use hardware NSS at first
2019-07-14T01:19:23 < salcedo> I am seeing 0x12!
2019-07-14T01:20:40 < salcedo> datasheet says 100us, but doing microsecond delays is nowhere in HAL that i see. the commonly accepted way of "the internet" appears to be copy and paste a bunch of bullshit into some header file.
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2019-07-14T01:21:22 < salcedo> 1ms should work just fine. that's what i have in my init function so far, but i wasn't actually using it yet because i still need to find out how to change pin from output to input
2019-07-14T01:25:07 < Thorn> good job
2019-07-14T01:25:13 < Thorn> now the real work begins
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2019-07-14T01:30:16 < salcedo> the real work shouldn't be that much involved.
2019-07-14T01:30:30 < salcedo> just reading a value from ADC and transmitting it.
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2019-07-14T01:50:43 < Thorn> for zypsnips: how to do a 50Ω transmission line on 2 or 4 layers: fig 9 / table 1 here https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/application-notes/AN629.pdf
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2019-07-14T02:28:00 < karlp> note to self, grab that later
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2019-07-14T02:29:57 < karlp> i just came here to oaste this https://i.imgur.com/Yxhv8oJ.png
2019-07-14T02:32:22 < Thorn> ##-offtopic plz
2019-07-14T02:37:17 < karlp> its too hard to read your solabs note on connectbot
2019-07-14T02:37:22 < karlp> tomorow i promise
2019-07-14T02:37:27 < karlp> or send a pr
2019-07-14T02:37:34 < karlp> its been done before....
2019-07-14T02:38:05 < karlp> aandrew:harhar re dat gap
2019-07-14T02:40:07 < salcedo> Thorn: gonna crank the speed back up and see if it'll take 8mhz now
2019-07-14T02:40:19 < salcedo> not that it matters. just cuz
2019-07-14T02:41:57 < salcedo> yep no prob
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2019-07-14T03:33:06 < karlp> Thorn: explain to me what's new or previously unseen in tha tsilabs appnote?
2019-07-14T03:33:58 < Thorn> it's just more trustworthy than online calculators I guess
2019-07-14T03:37:58 < aandrew> which silabs part?
2019-07-14T03:38:52 < karlp> https://tenor.com/view/is-it-though-thor-smile-gif-13334930
2019-07-14T03:39:04 < karlp> aandrew: it's literally still on the same half screen
2019-07-14T03:39:11 < karlp> (appnote, not part)
2019-07-14T03:39:37 < karlp> also, making both gap and reluctance jokes, well done aandrew  :)
2019-07-14T03:40:37 < aandrew> oh, my mistake
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2019-07-14T04:34:22 < bitmask> $67 in 3 hours, not bad
2019-07-14T04:50:10 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdrEtiE8P2I
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2019-07-14T05:04:48 < fenugrec> hmm, is there anything in the USB spec that prevents providing two connectors (miniB and microB) wired to the same PHY for user convenience ?
2019-07-14T05:05:33 < fenugrec> I'm hoping the longer traces to connect both wouldn't be much of a problem at FS speeds
2019-07-14T05:06:26 < Thorn> afaik usb spec bans anything that provides user convenience
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2019-07-14T06:12:28 < machinehum> .join
2019-07-14T06:12:31 < machinehum> whops
2019-07-14T06:12:59 < machinehum> hello weiners
2019-07-14T06:16:34 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/kGSpP4J
2019-07-14T06:16:53 < machinehum> whoa
2019-07-14T06:17:47 < bitmask> just gotta glue the leds on and print a base for it to hold the mcu and stuff
2019-07-14T06:19:19 < Thorn> https://sciencedemonstrations.fas.harvard.edu/presentations/schlieren-optics
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2019-07-14T07:23:36 < salcedo> bitmask: waaaaaat is tha
2019-07-14T08:23:37 < bitmask> led lit 3d printed brain
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2019-07-14T17:21:51 < salcedo> Thorn: it's so messy but i think i have everything setting up right. i'm not receiving transmissions from my other lora device though. my rtlsdr is busy collecting smart meter data.
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2019-07-14T17:52:42 < Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckfield
2019-07-14T17:56:30 < Steffanx> ty
2019-07-14T17:56:51 < Steffanx> So what is Laurenceb up to nowadays?
2019-07-14T17:57:05 < Laurenceb> babby shaker
2019-07-14T17:57:21 < Steffanx> still the wambulance stuff?
2019-07-14T17:57:36 < Laurenceb> yes
2019-07-14T17:58:49 < Laurenceb> me at work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeuJ_6skbF4
2019-07-14T17:59:36 < Steffanx> aha
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2019-07-14T18:14:59 < englishman> how will Brexit affect babbyshake?
2019-07-14T18:16:20 < Laurenceb> hopefully it will be cancelled
2019-07-14T18:16:47 < Laurenceb> but more likely we will already have grabbed all the money into our bank account when it happens
2019-07-14T18:16:56 < Laurenceb> we have already blown ukp3.5M
2019-07-14T18:21:22 < Laurenceb>  >You continue to live trapped in the 90s, where ladyboys are supposed to be ashamed of their feminine penii, and where Delphi, Visual Basic and Object Pascal are in demand.
2019-07-14T18:21:46 < Cracki> the britbong found new copypasta
2019-07-14T18:22:00 < Laurenceb> correct
2019-07-14T18:31:25 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg4-PBqRXb4 Laurenceb i found your real channel finally
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2019-07-14T18:46:11 < bitmask> Steffanx 
2019-07-14T18:46:18 < bitmask> mcdonalds has stroopwaffels!
2019-07-14T18:47:12 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oliq8m8Qph0
2019-07-14T18:47:22 < Laurenceb> >Couldn’t VICE just interview their own male employees?
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2019-07-14T18:52:56 < Cracki> geldings aren't male in 2019
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2019-07-14T19:07:30 < Steffanx> Lies bitmask 
2019-07-14T19:08:02 < bitmask> no, they are having this special with food from around the world and they have this new desert, let me see if I can find a pic, my gf showed me on her phone without even knowing what a stroop was
2019-07-14T19:08:38 < bitmask> https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/product/stroopwafel-mcflurry.html
2019-07-14T19:09:01 < bitmask> im getting one today
2019-07-14T19:09:31 < bitmask> and I'll think of you ;)
2019-07-14T19:20:19 < Steffanx> Ah yes that
2019-07-14T19:20:43 < Steffanx> I dont like stroomwafel ice.
2019-07-14T19:20:57 < Steffanx> You dont mix stroopwafels with anything
2019-07-14T19:22:59 < bitmask> meh its still stroopwafels
2019-07-14T19:23:02 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/kGSpP4J
2019-07-14T19:24:41 < Steffanx> it needs different colour leds for different parts of the brain
2019-07-14T19:25:54 < Steffanx> and then visualize your brain activity
2019-07-14T19:32:34 < bitmask> they are ws2812b
2019-07-14T19:32:39 < bitmask> 8 in each half
2019-07-14T19:32:54 < bitmask> animations! :)
2019-07-14T19:45:47 < salcedo> the all new impossible peas and soyboy beta-burger, available only at wendys!
2019-07-14T19:46:33 < englishman> american meat must taste like absolute garbage if a soy burger can compete with it
2019-07-14T19:46:37 < salcedo> enjoy plant based vegan hipster cuisine that costs more, and will kill you faster than meat WHILE enhancing docility among the masses!
2019-07-14T19:47:17 < englishman> welcome salcedo
2019-07-14T19:47:25 < englishman> this is a lora-friendly channel
2019-07-14T19:47:34 < salcedo> yes. i like lora.
2019-07-14T19:47:41 < englishman> and also lorawan?
2019-07-14T19:47:43 < salcedo> but so far my driver isn't working.
2019-07-14T19:47:48 < salcedo> no. lorawan not so much.
2019-07-14T19:47:54 < englishman> oh that's ok
2019-07-14T19:47:57 < salcedo> i don't dislike it. it's just not my focus.
2019-07-14T19:48:21 < englishman> v understandable
2019-07-14T19:48:56 < salcedo> i kind of dove into stm32 with this lora module and didn't learn how to work with NVIC
2019-07-14T19:49:49 < salcedo> very much enjoying writing the drivers myself though
2019-07-14T19:50:03 < Thorn> why does everyone love si4463 , it has a huge errata
2019-07-14T19:50:06 < salcedo> picking arduino libraries often sucks
2019-07-14T19:50:19 < salcedo> you never know what you're going toget
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2019-07-14T20:24:35 < salcedo> Thorn: when nss goes high, ending the frame... have you ever noticed the shortest possible delay between nss falling again for the next frame?
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2019-07-14T20:58:36 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: guess whom I'd like to see becoming the next prime minister of the UK and why?
2019-07-14T20:58:56 < Laurenceb> who?
2019-07-14T21:00:13 < PaulFertser> Boris Johnson. I'd very much like to see his populistic arse to fail executing the hard brexit scenario in time.
2019-07-14T21:00:24 < Laurenceb> heh
2019-07-14T21:00:37 < Laurenceb> I'd probably vote for him, for the lulz
2019-07-14T21:02:39 < PaulFertser> Not because I'm pro or against brexit but because I really dislike all the vague promises, the populism, lack of proper explanations and scientific analysis to support claims. The whole story seems to be revolving against shitthrowing competition rather than people making an informed choice.
2019-07-14T21:05:34 < Steffanx> its still funny. They were given a choice, many didn't give a shit (so didnt vote), it turned out to be a yes and now we want a revote because .... we didnt want this.
2019-07-14T21:05:51 < Steffanx> "we"  = them
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2019-07-14T21:07:02 < PaulFertser> What puzzles me most is was it really that hard to predict the irish border problem and possible solutions so that the voting would decide on what exactly to do with that right there, back then?
2019-07-14T21:08:30 < kakimir> study case: democracy failure
2019-07-14T21:08:43 < kakimir> back to workshop>
2019-07-14T21:08:46 < Steffanx> one problem at a time PaulFertser. This one was already hard enough.
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2019-07-14T21:23:05 < jpa-> they should have just restored the british empire to what it was in 1800s
2019-07-14T21:27:59 < Steffanx> not so sure about that
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2019-07-14T23:48:56 < salcedo> Thorn: my library is starting to take shape. the chicken scratch is being formalized
2019-07-14T23:49:15 < salcedo> I put it in my makefile project under Drivers/RFM9x so i can use it in other other projects
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2019-07-15T00:17:50 < Thorn> mainframe teardown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AptJJsO5qCg
2019-07-15T00:17:59 < Thorn> Chandrayaan 2 launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8GmJIqh1M
2019-07-15T00:21:00 < emeb_mac> cool
2019-07-15T00:21:34 < emeb_mac> scrubbed
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2019-07-15T00:32:58 < zyp> house update; finally found time to make some decent progress on the paving stones: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Rfuw4.jpg
2019-07-15T00:33:44 < zyp> now I can finally start pestering guys to come lay the asphalt surface in front of them
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2019-07-15T00:56:24 < Steffanx> Why asphalt zyp? And not those stones?
2019-07-15T00:57:35 < zyp> because it was included with the house
2019-07-15T00:57:55 < zyp> also a smooth surface is easier to keep clean where I wash cars and stuff
2019-07-15T00:58:19 < Steffanx> oh you already paid for it, makes sense
2019-07-15T00:58:27 < Steffanx> and there is the snow issue in norway :P
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2019-07-15T01:08:27 < zyp> ah, that too
2019-07-15T01:08:43 < zyp> a smooth surface is gonna be nice when I eventually get a snowblower :p
2019-07-15T01:09:01 < karlp> sweet, found a firmware update for my tv, fixed youtube app
2019-07-15T01:09:14 < zyp> ha :)
2019-07-15T01:09:18 < karlp> the tv has an option for "auto update" and "check for updates" but didn't find any.
2019-07-15T01:10:17 < karlp> manufacturer has nothing, but those wonderful aussies on whirlpool found the indsturctions and update file on https://support.tclelectronics.com.au/software-updates/
2019-07-15T01:10:34 < karlp> thomson itself has zero results for their own tv, so yay
2019-07-15T01:11:02 < karlp> I also now have a root filesystem for my tv....
2019-07-15T01:11:14 < karlp> hooray binwalk
2019-07-15T01:11:40 < zyp> I meant to hack around with my tv some time, but I never got around to it
2019-07-15T01:12:01 < karlp> yeah, it's not real family friendly to experiment on it either :)
2019-07-15T01:12:10 < karlp> good news though, it's now also _faster_
2019-07-15T01:12:29 < zyp> my tv is old/cheap enough to not come with any apps or shit
2019-07-15T01:12:48 < karlp> cheap now still includes it all
2019-07-15T01:12:54 < karlp> this was a cheap tv.
2019-07-15T01:13:13 < zyp> yeah, just saying when I bought mine, more expensive ones came with apps
2019-07-15T01:13:23 < zyp> mine is cheap enough it didn't, but still has the hardware for it
2019-07-15T01:13:45 < zyp> there's an ethernet port on it, can plug it in and request ip over dhcp
2019-07-15T01:13:54 < zyp> but that's pretty much everything the ethernet port can do
2019-07-15T01:14:58 < zyp> last I considered hacking around with it was when I wanted to control power on/off via ethernet
2019-07-15T01:15:22 < zyp> but then I found I could already do that through the RS232 port on the tv, so I just plugged an orange pi into it
2019-07-15T01:16:05 < zyp> I'm literally only using the tv as a monitor, don't even bother with a remote for it
2019-07-15T01:16:29 < karlp> it has an rs232 port?!
2019-07-15T01:16:44 < zyp> yes, and I even found the protocol docs for it
2019-07-15T01:16:47 < karlp> what do you need to power it updown remotely?
2019-07-15T01:17:27 < zyp> s/what/why/ ?
2019-07-15T01:17:32 < karlp> yar
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2019-07-15T01:17:58 < zyp> well, the chromecast already powers it on when anything is started
2019-07-15T01:18:17 < zyp> and then I have some shit that monitors the chromecast, and when it goes idle it turns the tv off again
2019-07-15T01:19:14 < karlp> I wonder if this authenticates the image at all.
2019-07-15T01:19:23 < karlp> I should get into the "rom" business of repacking it for the tv
2019-07-15T01:19:29 < karlp> introduce glowing skulls and shit
2019-07-15T01:19:35 < karlp> the rom kids love thaht sort of stuff rihgt?
2019-07-15T01:19:42 < karlp> "reskin your tv j0!"
2019-07-15T01:20:24 < karlp> the update image includes .c files, and makefile.am and everything
2019-07-15T01:20:43 < karlp> I find it hard to believe they're compiling on the image, I bet this is just careless devs packaging surely
2019-07-15T01:20:46 < zyp> tv shit: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/KiLj5
2019-07-15T01:20:49 < zyp> auto off shit: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/1AG3C
2019-07-15T01:21:43 < Cracki> "HB" mqtt?
2019-07-15T01:21:56 < karlp> the name of the library, ask them what they mean by it
2019-07-15T01:24:23 < englishman> zyp, get a blower attachment for the golf
2019-07-15T01:24:30 < zyp> heh
2019-07-15T01:30:09 < englishman> the leaf lost its first battery bar this week
2019-07-15T01:30:17 < englishman> at 128,000km
2019-07-15T01:30:31 < englishman> so it is at 85% capacity now
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2019-07-15T01:57:52 < kakimir> you may get another 128megameters
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2019-07-15T04:19:28 < salcedo> lol i finally got it to transmit
2019-07-15T04:19:39 < salcedo> the other module isn't receiving my message though.
2019-07-15T04:19:53 < salcedo> confirmed via sdr that it does tx
2019-07-15T04:52:06 < mrec> does anyone know about USB and stm32f0? there's a bug in the library.
2019-07-15T04:52:40 < dongs> nobody actually uses the shitty HAL USB library tho
2019-07-15T04:52:46 < mrec> just got my 48mhz usb 1.1 traces
2019-07-15T04:52:49 < dongs> so that there's bugs in it is no surprise
2019-07-15T04:52:51 < mrec> oh many people do
2019-07-15T04:53:15 < mrec> USB CDC etc.
2019-07-15T04:54:19 < mrec> there are no return values and no return values checked at all
2019-07-15T04:54:44 < mrec> in some cases the usb host throws resends to the device but the device is never ack'ing
2019-07-15T04:56:36 < mrec> also for commands acknowledged with USBD_CtlSendStatus
2019-07-15T04:57:41 < dongs> one look at HAL USB shit and i spent the time to make my compiler compile C++11 and just used zyp's lib instead.
2019-07-15T04:58:05 < dongs> and wrapped it into extern "C"
2019-07-15T04:58:51 < mrec> that doesn't change the fact that it needs to be fixed.
2019-07-15T05:01:30 < dongs> go ahead, its not like ST has a public shithub
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2019-07-15T05:36:34 < salcedo> hrm
2019-07-15T05:36:49 < salcedo>   ((EXTI_HandleTypeDef *)GPIO_PIN_13)->PendingCallback = toggleLeds;
2019-07-15T05:36:49 < englishman> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/747287659/trio-the-on-the-go-dual-and-triple-screen-laptop-monitor/
2019-07-15T05:36:51 < salcedo>   //HAL_EXTI_RegisterCallback((EXTI_HandleTypeDef *)GPIO_PIN_13, HAL_EXTI_COMMON_CB_ID, toggleLeds);
2019-07-15T05:36:53 < englishman> $200 for 1080piss
2019-07-15T05:36:54 < englishman> in 2019
2019-07-15T05:36:54 < salcedo> this makes no sense
2019-07-15T05:37:10 < salcedo> i'm trying to toggle the leds when i push the button using exti interrupt
2019-07-15T05:37:51 < salcedo> oh wait this is for a gpio...
2019-07-15T05:38:53 < salcedo> implement it in the user file... offfff course
2019-07-15T05:41:00 < salcedo> this "just override this function with your code" model kind of sucks
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2019-07-15T06:19:18 < machinehum> Those magnets are 100% going to hold up.
2019-07-15T06:19:37 < machinehum> Then comes out the double sided sticky tape
2019-07-15T06:19:39 < machinehum> lol
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2019-07-15T08:12:23 < fenugrec> hmm, if you "panelize" two PCBs into the same gerbers, will allpcb/elecrow cut them in half according to the mechanical layer ? or does it count as "2 designs"
2019-07-15T08:14:17 < rajkosto> two different ones ?
2019-07-15T08:14:21 < rajkosto> then it counts as 2 designs
2019-07-15T08:14:42 < rajkosto> you need to have a shared trace between the pcbs if you dont want them to count as 2 different designs
2019-07-15T08:15:39 < fenugrec> rajkosto, yeah, thought so. other design isn't quite ready anyway so I,ll probably send the first on its own
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2019-07-15T09:01:28 < Thorn> how to innovation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9CWE6rGXG8
2019-07-15T09:07:39 < dongs> wow how old is that video
2019-07-15T09:09:19 < Thorn> what is old about it
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2019-07-15T09:25:26 < Thorn> open sauce usb analysis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FOkJLp_PUw
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2019-07-15T09:47:47 < futarisIRCcloud> Thorn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mTw9iHcj3Q&feature=youtu.be&t=16309
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2019-07-15T11:14:49 < karlp> mrec: did you ever say what you were using for your benchamrking/verification of usb?
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2019-07-15T11:28:00 < jly> 9
2019-07-15T11:31:38 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
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2019-07-15T14:20:37 < mrec> karlp: I'm reading/writing lots of SPI control messages, and also keep transferring data via another asynchronous endpoint
2019-07-15T14:20:54 < mrec> the asynchronous endpoint is pretty much okay, just the usb control messages are messed up
2019-07-15T14:21:37 < Thorn> mrec: he probably wants to know which usb analyzer you're using if any
2019-07-15T14:21:39 < mrec> I'm sending control messages in a loop for benchmarking
2019-07-15T14:21:51 < mrec> I'm using a cypress USB 3 board
2019-07-15T14:22:05 < mrec> wired DQ0 and DQ1 to DP/DM and sampled the data at 48mhz
2019-07-15T14:22:29 < mrec> the application support for sigrok is a bit messed up there's only a separate branch available
2019-07-15T14:22:35 < mrec> it's not officially merged yet
2019-07-15T14:23:02 < mrec> FX2 logic analyzers are too slow
2019-07-15T14:23:43 < mrec> I would say the stm usb stack is 99% okay but it still fails for 1%
2019-07-15T14:25:02 < mrec> I have opened a ticket at stm already I guess the interrupts are messed up somehow
2019-07-15T14:25:24 < mrec> the control message itself is acked, but the payload is nak'ed
2019-07-15T14:25:46 < karlp> no, not the sigrok, the host usb software you're using to give you consistent results.
2019-07-15T14:26:36 < karlp> so far it's mostly been "I've got a usb problem, but I'm not sharing any deails on how anyone could possibly reproduce it"
2019-07-15T14:26:41 < mrec> I'm using linux, and directly use usbdevfs, however libusb can also be used
2019-07-15T14:27:01 < mrec> https://pastebin.com/XdaQ7LPb
2019-07-15T14:27:04 < mrec> that's what I'm sending
2019-07-15T14:28:28 < mrec> on macosx I'm accessing the native userspace interface, and the same problem happens there too
2019-07-15T14:28:38 < mrec> userspace usb interface*
2019-07-15T14:29:10 < mrec> all the HAL functions themselves do not return any return values...
2019-07-15T14:29:27 < mrec> the problem is in the lowlevel layer not the hal itself
2019-07-15T14:31:03 < mrec> https://pastebin.com/Z9pVqX5i
2019-07-15T14:31:38 < mrec> as a workaround I can just set the timeout as low as possible in the application and restart the entire request
2019-07-15T14:32:02 < mrec> when writing a kernel driver, those issues would probably not show up
2019-07-15T14:32:29 < mrec> so maybe the cdc driver might just hide it
2019-07-15T14:34:14 < mrec> https://uploadfiles.io/yvijg820
2019-07-15T14:34:33 < mrec> this is the part where it fails (sigrok file)
2019-07-15T14:34:59 < mrec> it has absolutely no impact on the asynchronous transfer which is running aside
2019-07-15T14:36:07 < karlp> so, one last time, is any of this shareable for anyone else to reproduce and work on fixing it with you?
2019-07-15T14:36:15 < karlp> or do you just want to moan about it in the abstract?
2019-07-15T14:38:17 < mrec> well not directly since my testapp is based on my hardware.. that will just always fail :-(
2019-07-15T14:38:54 < mrec> the fundamental question is why it naks where it should not it should take 2 more bytes (like it shows in the pulseview/sigrok dump)
2019-07-15T14:40:03 < mrec> according to the rest of the dump a nak would be okay for maybe 2-3 frames but this happens permanently
2019-07-15T14:40:38 < mrec> the microcontroller should be prepared for reading 2 bytes since the control message was ack'ed
2019-07-15T14:41:20 < mrec> I can share my screen if anyone has time and ideas
2019-07-15T14:42:39 < mrec> I'm going to add an LED and let it light up once it receives such a 2 byte request .. at that point the code should at least register the request.. but I'm not sure if the STM32F0 registers will acknowledge the register writes
2019-07-15T14:43:10 < mrec> it takes 1-5 minutes until the problem will come up
2019-07-15T14:46:18 < karlp> if you want people to work on it, setup sample device fw and sample host code that can reproduce this.
2019-07-15T14:46:41 < karlp> no-one's goign to do a screenshare to work on it, unless you'r epaying them as a subpport engineer
2019-07-15T14:47:43 < mrec> no problem.
2019-07-15T14:48:54 < mrec> think I have debugged it far enough, I was just wondering if someone knows a bit about the USB support
2019-07-15T15:02:42 < dongs> zyp is the man to talk to but I'm certain he doesnt give a fuck about the hot garbage that is ST's USB lib
2019-07-15T15:02:49 < zyp> sup?
2019-07-15T15:04:31 < zyp> oh, USB issues
2019-07-15T15:05:26 < mrec> luckily only USB 1.1 issues :-)
2019-07-15T15:05:59 < zyp> not USB 2.0 FS?
2019-07-15T15:06:26 < mrec> usb 2.0 FS yes however traceable with the logic analyzer
2019-07-15T15:06:29 < zyp> I digress, but USB version does not equal bus speed
2019-07-15T15:09:46 < zyp> mrec, it's a bit unclear to me what you're trying to do, can you back up a bit and give me a simple summary?
2019-07-15T15:10:26 < mrec> I just figured out that there's a difference in stm32f0xx_hal_pcd.h
2019-07-15T15:10:28 < mrec> I'll update that one
2019-07-15T15:10:42 < zyp> as dongs said, I don't know the ST USB lib, but I'm fairly familiar with the hardware and USB in general
2019-07-15T15:11:15 < mrec> in the bus captured example the stm32f0 acks the usb control message (setup part) but fails on acknowledging the following data part
2019-07-15T15:11:41 < mrec> it usually happens within 1-5 minutes
2019-07-15T15:11:44 < karlp> the trace is meaningless without the code you are running.
2019-07-15T15:12:06 < zyp> back up a bit more, I haven't seen any captures
2019-07-15T15:12:17 < mrec> no it's not since it's a usb issue
2019-07-15T15:12:47 < mrec> you should see the dump.. however I'm using an outdated hal pcd header (which is responsible for writing the registers)
2019-07-15T15:12:52 < mrec> let me update it first and check again
2019-07-15T15:12:56 < dongs> fwiw, i'm running usb-cdc on F0 with zyp's lib and i spammed it both in and out at high speedz and zero issues
2019-07-15T15:13:19 < zyp> dongs, this sounds like a control issue, CDC ACM is bulk, so I don't think it's very relevant :)
2019-07-15T15:13:20 < dongs> and im not even doing any buffering or other shit
2019-07-15T15:13:30 < dongs> ah ok
2019-07-15T15:13:44 < dongs> i thought he originally complained about someting in cdc breaking
2019-07-15T15:13:48 < dongs> this drama has been unraveling for a few days now
2019-07-15T15:13:52 < mrec> yes it's only control related, asynchronous transfers just fly through without any issue
2019-07-15T15:13:54 < dongs> started of with hand-sketched scope capture
2019-07-15T15:14:03 < mrec> I'm going for lunch be back later (still need to update the code with the latest header)
2019-07-15T15:14:25 < mrec> dongs: not such a deal I only checked for 2 days now ..
2019-07-15T15:14:34 < mrec> I'm also doing other things :-)
2019-07-15T15:14:48 < zyp> mrec, so are you doing control OUT or control IN?
2019-07-15T15:15:06 < dongs> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408456422234521630/600277225857613824/unknown.png attn zyp
2019-07-15T15:15:48 < zyp> heh
2019-07-15T15:16:46 < zyp> dongs, I found this shit on saturday, I blame you: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/cQYxa.jpg
2019-07-15T15:17:01 < dongs> lmao
2019-07-15T15:17:12 < dongs> retweeting
2019-07-15T15:19:23 < rajkosto> whats interesting about that one
2019-07-15T15:19:24 < englishman> this retard wants to use microchip rgmii phy and 1.5->1.8v level shifters instead of 1.5v phy
2019-07-15T15:19:32 < englishman> how utterly will he fail?
2019-07-15T15:20:06 < zyp> uh
2019-07-15T15:20:19 < zyp> isn't RGMII DDR with clock loopback and shit?
2019-07-15T15:21:02 < englishman> clock feedback is pretty standard
2019-07-15T15:21:08 < englishman> so you're saying he has a chance
2019-07-15T15:21:21 < englishman> and yes ddr
2019-07-15T15:21:41 < dongs> why not just use a 1.5V PHY
2019-07-15T15:21:54 < englishman> because he can't find one on digikey
2019-07-15T15:21:58 < englishman> srsly
2019-07-15T15:22:02 < englishman> that's his reason
2019-07-15T15:22:29 < zyp> just saying it's a hint that timing matters
2019-07-15T15:22:30 < englishman> ar8035 isn't in stock at digikey -> gave up
2019-07-15T15:23:10 < zyp> also, that's a retarded reason
2019-07-15T15:23:27 < englishman> isn't it!
2019-07-15T15:23:29 < zyp> I could see spending the effort if you wanted to use a PHY with some special features that doesn't exist in 1.5V
2019-07-15T15:23:47 < englishman> I dont think he knows that it's ddr
2019-07-15T15:23:49 < zyp> because it's probably possible to make it work if you pick the right translators and do it properly
2019-07-15T15:24:05 < englishman> it might even pass EMC after a bunch of shielding
2019-07-15T15:24:37 < zyp> but still, why spend the effort when it's pointless
2019-07-15T15:25:23 < englishman> I will raise my concerns legitimately, they will be ignored, and he will fail
2019-07-15T15:25:37 < englishman> then I will take his job and bang his wife
2019-07-15T15:25:45 < zyp> good plan
2019-07-15T15:26:14 < englishman> we are on two sides of the Same project
2019-07-15T15:26:18 < englishman> and all my shit works
2019-07-15T15:26:36 < englishman> I'm kinda bored now and just playing with lazers
2019-07-15T15:26:49 < englishman> while he's still finding out how rgmii works
2019-07-15T15:27:35 < englishman> did you know there's a new type of lazer that can make black and greyscale markings directly on clear alu
2019-07-15T15:27:44 < englishman> and can do colour on stainless
2019-07-15T15:27:50 < englishman> it's fucking cool
2019-07-15T15:28:28 < englishman> gonna buy one for $47k
2019-07-15T15:28:34 < zyp> cool
2019-07-15T15:59:14 < dongs> sup
2019-07-15T15:59:35 < dongs> nice
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2019-07-15T16:09:03 < salcedo> how are you going to get your $47k laser sharpie when the delivery people stopped working because they ran out of food?
2019-07-15T16:09:41 < salcedo> you're gonna need pizza.
2019-07-15T16:09:50 < salcedo> laser pizza
2019-07-15T16:14:03 < dongs> damn these niggers gave a BOM with like 3 different resistor sizes
2019-07-15T16:14:21 < dongs> wait, 4
2019-07-15T16:14:27 < dongs> without any reason too
2019-07-15T16:14:33 < dongs> there's shit like 1K/10K in all 3 sizes
2019-07-15T16:14:36 < dongs> 0402 0603 0805
2019-07-15T16:14:39 < dongs> fuck outta here
2019-07-15T16:15:46 < dongs> oh, it gets beter
2019-07-15T16:15:52 < dongs> there's a few different part#s for 10K 0402
2019-07-15T16:15:57 < dongs> so tehy show up as separate bom lines
2019-07-15T16:24:24 < aandrew> haha nice
2019-07-15T16:24:52 < dongs> yeah fuckem
2019-07-15T16:24:59 < dongs> and they're bitching its too expensive
2019-07-15T16:24:59 < dongs> yeah no
2019-07-15T16:26:52 < dongs> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/murata-electronics-north-america/GRM55ER72A475KA01L/490-1934-1-ND/587313
2019-07-15T16:26:56 < dongs> they also have dumb shit like this
2019-07-15T16:27:04 < dongs> all over
2019-07-15T16:28:08 < dongs> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/murata-electronics-north-america/GRM31CF50J107ZE01L/490-4512-1-ND/1033271
2019-07-15T16:28:11 < dongs> and this
2019-07-15T16:28:18 < dongs> yeah t hats gonna be real cheap, fuckers
2019-07-15T16:28:53 < salcedo> $150k/year salary isn't enough to edit their BOM?
2019-07-15T16:29:08 < salcedo> send it back! and you need a raise
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2019-07-15T16:39:32 < aandrew> "I can consult to reduce your BOM costs for $250/hr"
2019-07-15T16:39:36 < dongs> yeah
2019-07-15T16:39:39 < dongs> thats wat i told them
2019-07-15T16:40:19 < aandrew> why are they using super high capacitance MLCCs? What's wrong with SMT electrolytic?
2019-07-15T16:40:33 < dongs> i donno this entire list is a mistake
2019-07-15T16:40:47 < dongs> bad decisions on top of bad choices
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2019-07-15T16:46:41 < dongs> zyp is that dattebayo shit in norway
2019-07-15T16:46:55 < dongs> or just a random retweet
2019-07-15T16:47:17 < zyp> I took that photo on saturday
2019-07-15T16:47:20 < zyp> so yes
2019-07-15T16:47:22 < dongs> nice
2019-07-15T16:47:45 < zyp> some food festival thing in Kristiansand
2019-07-15T16:56:11 < basker> hello guys, to do a nanosecond delay in a nucleo-f746 running at 216MHz... have some hal trick or need i run unecessary operation to generate that time?
2019-07-15T16:57:09 < zyp> basker, how do you expect to get a nanosecond delay when a single cpu cycle takes 4.63 nanoseconds?
2019-07-15T16:57:21 < dongs> 216MHz is 4.63ns/tick
2019-07-15T16:57:26 < dongs> youre not gonna get 1ns delay out of it
2019-07-15T16:57:31 < dongs> er yea wat zyp said
2019-07-15T16:57:54 < dongs> also lmao HAL trick
2019-07-15T16:58:06 < dongs> you could call some HAL function that prolly takes a few thousand cycles to execute
2019-07-15T16:58:09 < dongs> to make a delay
2019-07-15T16:58:32 < basker> yes, something like 5 cycles
2019-07-15T16:58:47 < zyp> I assume you meant "a delay of a given number of nanoseconds", which is more sensible, but still leaves open how many nanoseconds and what precision you need
2019-07-15T16:58:48 < dongs> so now you want a 25ns delay?
2019-07-15T16:59:10 < dongs> also doesnt F7 have caches and shit
2019-07-15T16:59:17 < zyp> can you elaborate on what you need this delay for?
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2019-07-15T17:00:19 < zyp> instruction timing is fairly undeterministic on a platform with caches and shit, so when you're talking delays on the order of a few instructions, you kinda need to know what you're doing for there to be a point at all
2019-07-15T17:02:16 < basker> zyp, i'am doing some tests with the ad7606 and nucleo-F746.. i dev a code using ms delay just to check if it works
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2019-07-15T17:02:54 < zyp> I mean, if you want to "do nothing for five instructions", you can do something like __asm__ volatile("nop; nop; nop; nop; nop");
2019-07-15T17:02:54 < basker_> i'am doing some tests with the ad7606 and nucleo-F746.. i dev a code using ms delay just to check if it works
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2019-07-15T17:03:20 < zyp> but don't bet on it taking exactly 25 nanoseconds
2019-07-15T17:03:24 < zyp> or anywhere close for that matter
2019-07-15T17:03:38 < dongs> pretty sure that part doesn't require nanosecond timing
2019-07-15T17:03:40 < basker_> zyp, nice
2019-07-15T17:04:23 < dongs> i mean
2019-07-15T17:04:27 < dongs> in the timing specifications
2019-07-15T17:04:32 < dongs> there's no timing below 1us
2019-07-15T17:04:35 < dongs> for anything
2019-07-15T17:04:45 < dongs> ah wait there's some ns at the end
2019-07-15T17:04:56 < dongs> like reset pulse width and otehr shit that doenst matter
2019-07-15T17:04:56 < basker_> this does not require exactly timing... anything is best than use ms in this case
2019-07-15T17:05:14 < basker_> hmm
2019-07-15T17:05:34 < dongs> yeah all this crap is irrelevant
2019-07-15T17:05:46 < dongs> you can drive it by manually toggling bits on a breadboard with pushbuttons
2019-07-15T17:05:49 < dongs> and i bet it will still work
2019-07-15T17:07:32 < basker_> dongs, zyp thanks guys
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2019-07-15T17:08:17 < salcedo> microsecond delay on stm32 lol
2019-07-15T17:08:27 < salcedo> the DWT method is a crapshoot
2019-07-15T17:09:01 < dongs> i use DWT or on F0 i just run any random timer at Fsys and use that as delay counter.
2019-07-15T17:09:01 < salcedo> i need to have a 20us delay, but it doesn't _have_ to be 20us.
2019-07-15T17:09:11 < salcedo> shuold i just use HAL_Delay(1) ?
2019-07-15T17:09:13 < zyp> lower bound delays are easy using a timer
2019-07-15T17:09:14 < dongs> but i never neded anything more precise than us/ms etc
2019-07-15T17:09:34 < zyp> just use any timer and wait for n counts
2019-07-15T17:09:35 < dongs> pretty sure HAL_Delay has systick granularity
2019-07-15T17:09:45 < dongs> cuz its updated from there
2019-07-15T17:09:47 < zyp> then you'll get a delay of n counts plus a few cycles or so overhead
2019-07-15T17:09:49 < dongs> so wahtever Hz systick runs at
2019-07-15T17:10:10 < salcedo> i'll just use HAL_Delay(1)
2019-07-15T17:10:21 < salcedo> the extra 950us isn't an issue
2019-07-15T17:10:21 < dongs> zyp, or have an update IRQ and increment a high bit there on overflo
2019-07-15T17:12:20 < salcedo> you pull NSS low, send your commands, then pull NSS high.
2019-07-15T17:12:34 < salcedo> the datasheet says there is a 20us minimum high time between commands.
2019-07-15T17:12:46 < salcedo> i wanted to try to get down close to this, but 1ms is fine
2019-07-15T17:14:15 < basker_> salcedo, i needed to check if ad7606 was working yet..,. even using ms i did it and is working
2019-07-15T17:18:51 < dongs> why wouldn't it.
2019-07-15T17:18:59 < dongs> all those timing requiremennts are MINIMUM timing
2019-07-15T17:19:14 < dongs> you can toggle 1 bit per second and it would still work 99.999% of the time
2019-07-15T17:20:25 < mrec> zyp: as far as I see control out (data payload, the setup request is okay)
2019-07-15T17:20:39 < mrec> just updated to the latest drivers and it still happens
2019-07-15T17:21:44 < mrec> I have set the timeout to 20 seconds, the bus is interleaved with asynchronous requests (which is okay), asynchronous requests are fine.
2019-07-15T17:21:57 < zyp> how big is the data stage?
2019-07-15T17:22:34 < mrec> 2 bytes
2019-07-15T17:22:35 < zyp> how often are you sending the request? I saw you wrote it fails once every few minutes
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2019-07-15T17:22:53 < mrec> yes absolutely random but very rare
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2019-07-15T17:23:13 < zyp> how often are you sending the request?
2019-07-15T17:23:24 < mrec> I'm flooding it
2019-07-15T17:23:36 < mrec> benchmark, as often as possible
2019-07-15T17:23:44 < zyp> okay
2019-07-15T17:23:54 < mrec> a "normal" nak would be 2-3 frames max
2019-07-15T17:23:59 < zyp> does it matter if you have bulk traffic going on at the same time or not?
2019-07-15T17:24:14 < zyp> NAK is flow control, not an error condition in itself
2019-07-15T17:24:31 < mrec> yes the host will try to resend the 2 bytes
2019-07-15T17:24:49 < zyp> as far as you describe, the problem is that it keeps NAKing until the request times out
2019-07-15T17:24:59 < mrec> it would be easier if you could have a look at the pulseview/sigrok dump
2019-07-15T17:25:29 < zyp> I don't have anything here to open it with
2019-07-15T17:25:53 < zyp> but it's okay, I know how a data stage being NAKed until timeout looks :)
2019-07-15T17:25:56 < mrec> right now it took 800 seconds to come up again
2019-07-15T17:26:24 < zyp> have you tried it without the bulk traffic going on at the same time?
2019-07-15T17:26:36 < mrec> not yet
2019-07-15T17:27:17 < zyp> it'd be useful to know whether that makes it occur more or less often, or not make a difference at all
2019-07-15T17:27:21 < mrec> ok it's running without the asynchronous request
2019-07-15T17:27:29 < mrec> I'll give it 20 minutes
2019-07-15T17:28:02 < zyp> I'll be leaving any minute now, but I should be back tonight and can take a look then
2019-07-15T17:28:25 < mrec> I have opened a ticket at ST already about it
2019-07-15T17:28:35 < zyp> or, I mean, I don't know what to look at except for your comments :)
2019-07-15T17:29:10 < mrec> it's good that it's isolated to control out messages
2019-07-15T17:29:31 < mrec> and restarting the entire setup command will also recover it
2019-07-15T17:31:22 < zyp> a couple of years ago, I found something that seemed like a race condition in the hardware itself related to control OUT transfers: https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/pull/777#issuecomment-298160147
2019-07-15T17:31:36 < zyp> I don't know what the ST USB stack does and if it can be related
2019-07-15T17:32:02 < zyp> but sporadic problems tend do be race conditions
2019-07-15T17:36:13 < mrec> I think so but I didn't get deep enough where
2019-07-15T17:36:56 < zyp> removing the bulk transfers might affect timing enough that your problem disappears entirely
2019-07-15T17:37:28 < zyp> or it might make it occur more often since you have time for more control transfers when you have less other bus activity
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2019-07-15T17:38:11 < mrec> so far no timeout
2019-07-15T17:39:06 < mrec> asynchronous transfer itself is okay there's no gap in the data
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2019-07-15T18:40:31 < mrec> so it's not happening with control messages only
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2019-07-15T19:19:49 < Thorn> should I pay extra for 4463-C2A, or is B1B (with an impressive errata) good enough?
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2019-07-15T19:26:52 < Thorn> https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/application-notes/AN897.pdf
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2019-07-15T20:14:37  * jadew went to Turkey on vacation
2019-07-15T20:14:48 < jadew> they have no imgur and no wikipedia lol
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2019-07-15T20:57:57 < salcedo> Thorn: what's the story with the interrupts?
2019-07-15T20:58:24 < salcedo> Thorn: i set RegDioMapping1 to 0x40 to enable interrupt on TxDone
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2019-07-15T20:58:51 < salcedo> what happens to DIO0?
2019-07-15T20:59:08 < salcedo> i have DIO0 connected to PA5, configured as EXTI 5.
2019-07-15T20:59:36 < salcedo> 1. this interrupt never gets triggered by the lora module.
2019-07-15T21:00:12 < salcedo> 2. if i manually trigger it by setting PA5 high, my interrupt code freezes the MCU. all it's doing is sending an spi command to switch back to standby mode
2019-07-15T21:14:28 < qyx> aren't they opendrain outputs?
2019-07-15T21:15:09 < qyx> this is usually the case with interrupt pins, they are active low, not active high
2019-07-15T21:15:22 < qyx> and you have to provide a pullup resistor or configure the internal one
2019-07-15T21:21:56 < salcedo> doesn't matter what i set it to
2019-07-15T21:22:10 < salcedo> there's two challenges here i'm facing at the moment
2019-07-15T21:22:51 < salcedo> DIO0 is high no matter what. it never goes low. so the module isn't performing the interrupt.
2019-07-15T21:23:12 < salcedo> i set the exti with a pull-up and trigger on falling edge
2019-07-15T21:23:47 < salcedo> if i pull the pin from the module, it's going to fall. my interrupt callback runs, turns an led on.
2019-07-15T21:24:08 < salcedo> after that, i call a function to use SPI and HAL_Delay
2019-07-15T21:24:29 < salcedo> somewhere i read says this is a problem because of SysTick interrupt priority.
2019-07-15T21:24:59 < qyx> idk if you are allowed to call hal_delay in an interrupt
2019-07-15T21:25:05 < qyx> generally it is not a good idea
2019-07-15T21:25:39 < qyx> but there are multiple reasons
2019-07-15T21:25:44 < qyx> is your module transmitting?
2019-07-15T21:25:49 < qyx> you can poll the status register
2019-07-15T21:26:09 < salcedo> i'm using an sdr to confirm it's transmitting.
2019-07-15T21:44:04 < turnip420> Is there a way to tell gcc to optomize for speed, but don't optomise any variables out?
2019-07-15T21:44:23 < turnip420> I got into a funtion, and for some reason the this pointer was optimised out
2019-07-15T21:44:28 < turnip420> Which seems insane
2019-07-15T21:45:09 < effractur> make the pointer volatile
2019-07-15T21:45:33 < effractur> if the function performence a noop on a pointer gcc will remove it
2019-07-15T21:45:45 < effractur> for example writing to it and not using it anywhere
2019-07-15T21:45:49 < mawk> you can make the this pointer volatile ?
2019-07-15T21:46:15 < mawk> by postfixing the function prototype by volatile I think actually yes
2019-07-15T21:46:27 < mawk> class C { void f() volatile { } };
2019-07-15T21:46:42 < turnip420> Okay cool
2019-07-15T21:46:56 < turnip420> Thanks
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2019-07-15T22:44:03 < karlp> Thorn: do I remmember right you bought a brymen meter a year ot two ago? happy with it? whichh one?
2019-07-15T22:52:39 < mrec> zyp: please let me know when you're back
2019-07-15T22:53:16 < mrec> I wonder if I can get an interrupt notification on the unmatched usb messages
2019-07-15T22:53:34 < mrec> I'd like to count the fails and just re-initialize the correct state
2019-07-15T22:53:58 < mrec> the failed messages don't seem to trigger the ERR flag
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2019-07-15T23:05:06 < zyp> mrec, what ERR flag?
2019-07-15T23:06:53 < zyp> mrec, also, how did reproducing without the bulk transfers going go?
2019-07-15T23:06:57 < mrec> USB_CNTR ERR
2019-07-15T23:07:09 < mrec> no problems without the isochronous transfer
2019-07-15T23:07:18 < zyp> ah, isochronous
2019-07-15T23:07:38 < mrec> the isochronous transfer itself is never affected 
2019-07-15T23:08:20 < mrec> zyp: did you implement your library for the stm32f0 or other ST mcus?
2019-07-15T23:08:29 < zyp> yes
2019-07-15T23:08:55 < mrec> I think about adding a timer in the worst case
2019-07-15T23:09:12 < zyp> I've both written my own lib and contributed to libopencm3
2019-07-15T23:09:45 < zyp> although neither supports isochronous transfers on the usb core used in stm32f0, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend switching :)
2019-07-15T23:10:07 < zyp> unless you're prepared to do the work to add isochronous support yourself
2019-07-15T23:10:52 < zyp> anyway, is there any reason you couldn't handle this on the host side?
2019-07-15T23:11:09 < zyp> the device doesn't get the transfer and the host times out, right?
2019-07-15T23:11:18 < zyp> can't you just retry on the host?
2019-07-15T23:11:30 < mrec> the host is retrying and the mcu is never ack'ing
2019-07-15T23:11:40 < mrec> https://snag.gy/rBoCe5.jpg
2019-07-15T23:11:46 < zyp> by retry I meant the entire URB
2019-07-15T23:12:01 < mrec> one sec I'm uploading some pictures
2019-07-15T23:12:04 < zyp> IIRC you said it would recover as soon as the next SETUP packet went out
2019-07-15T23:12:36 < mrec> https://snag.gy/f6qiAF.jpg
2019-07-15T23:14:03 < mrec> on the PC side you can set up some milliseconds before it times out, on linux it will print the timeouts into the system log
2019-07-15T23:14:34 < mrec> I wonder if I can get an interrupt on those OUT messages somehow
2019-07-15T23:15:06 < zyp> from the host software perspective, there's only two events; URB is scheduled and URB is completed, between that the USB host controller takes care of doing the SETUP/OUT/IN stuff
2019-07-15T23:15:08 < mrec> the repeating continues until the timeout for the usb control message on the host has passed 
2019-07-15T23:15:29 < zyp> when one of the stages times out, you get an URB completion with an error code
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2019-07-15T23:15:37 < zyp> which you can handle in software and try a new request
2019-07-15T23:16:05 < zyp> and no, you can't
2019-07-15T23:16:20 < zyp> on the device side, handling those individual tokens is handled by hardware
2019-07-15T23:17:29 < zyp> device firmware will only get told that anything has happened when the DATAn packet has been written into memory and hardware is already ACKing on the bus
2019-07-15T23:17:53 < zyp> if the device is NAKing, then the hardware is not yet ready to receive, that's flow control
2019-07-15T23:18:31 < zyp> the bug here is not the NAK itself, it's that hardware never gets out of that state
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2019-07-15T23:18:54 < zyp> i.e. there's a state machine somewhere that's getting stuck instead of advancing to get ready to receive that packet
2019-07-15T23:20:35 < zyp> in my usb stack I have a high speed trace log where I can log all the events the hardware is telling me about and what state the hardware is saying it's in
2019-07-15T23:20:43 < zyp> it's pretty useful for debugging issues like this
2019-07-15T23:21:51 < mrec> is there a way I can count the usb requests on DP/DM?
2019-07-15T23:21:56 < zyp> see e.g. https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/usb/l0_usb.h#n74
2019-07-15T23:21:59 < mrec> within a certain time?
2019-07-15T23:22:08 < zyp> no, there's activity on DP/DM all the time
2019-07-15T23:22:26 < mrec> well did you check the screenshot?
2019-07-15T23:22:44 < mrec> the bug shows up some obvious pattern there
2019-07-15T23:22:48 < zyp> USB is partly a broadcast bus, your device is receiving and discarding traffic going to other devices on the bus too
2019-07-15T23:22:56 < catphish> if i fancy driving stepper motors with an stm32, do i need an external controller, or is it possible (sane?) to do everything using the stm32?
2019-07-15T23:23:16 < zyp> which screenshot? this: https://snag.gy/rBoCe5.jpg ?
2019-07-15T23:23:40 < mrec> yes
2019-07-15T23:23:53 < zyp> are you saying the bug shows up every 20 requests or so?
2019-07-15T23:24:10 < mrec> no the big transfer is the isochronous transfer
2019-07-15T23:24:12 < mrec> that one is fine
2019-07-15T23:24:27 < zyp> ah, right
2019-07-15T23:24:28 < mrec> there shouldn't be so many requests in between
2019-07-15T23:24:41 < zyp> why not?
2019-07-15T23:24:41 < mrec> that's all just retrying
2019-07-15T23:24:44 < zyp> ah
2019-07-15T23:24:49 < mrec> and trying to get the Ack
2019-07-15T23:24:54 < zyp> how often are you issuing the control request then?
2019-07-15T23:25:05 < mrec> in the worst case of a regular transfer it might only retry it 2-3 times
2019-07-15T23:25:19 < mrec> only one time the controller does the rest until it times out
2019-07-15T23:26:02 < zyp> hmm
2019-07-15T23:26:11 < catphish> looks like st have an example project for controlling a stepper motor, wonder how they do it
2019-07-15T23:26:13 < zyp> so what's the pattern?
2019-07-15T23:26:28 < mrec> retrying to send 2 bytes to the mcu but the mcu never acks
2019-07-15T23:26:28 < zyp> it fails when it tries right before the isochronous transfer?
2019-07-15T23:26:42 < mrec> it's the 2 bytes which were announced by the setup transfer
2019-07-15T23:27:00 < zyp> well, sure, that's just how usb flow control works
2019-07-15T23:27:14 < mrec> I don't see the relation between the isochronous transfer and the control message
2019-07-15T23:27:23 < mrec> as mentioned it works for up to 5 minutes
2019-07-15T23:27:31 < zyp> okay, I thought you meant there were a pattern there
2019-07-15T23:27:43 < mrec> well just the retry pattern
2019-07-15T23:27:58 < zyp> the retry pattern is not interesting, it's all working like it's supposed to
2019-07-15T23:28:15 < mrec> all 20us
2019-07-15T23:28:28 < zyp> this is running on a f072?
2019-07-15T23:28:30 < mrec> yes it is except the MCU should eat the data :-)
2019-07-15T23:28:31 < mrec> yes
2019-07-15T23:28:41 < zyp> on a custom board, I think you said?
2019-07-15T23:28:52 < mrec> yes
2019-07-15T23:29:09 < mrec> I doubt that the board is the reason even the traces look fine
2019-07-15T23:29:22 < mrec> I also checked it on the oscilloscope I don't see a problem there
2019-07-15T23:29:39 < mrec> and turning off the isochronous transfer makes it work properly
2019-07-15T23:29:40 < zyp> can you strip out everything irrelevant to make a reduced testcase that can reproduce the problem on a f072-discovery?
2019-07-15T23:30:20 < mrec> hmmm difficult because the data is coming in from outside .. you'd need the same device I guess
2019-07-15T23:30:41 < zyp> I have a f072-discovery in a box somewhere and I have a beagle on my desk, so it'd be a lot easier to reproduce it on my desk here
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2019-07-15T23:31:07 < zyp> why? can't you just send same-sized packages filled with zeros instead of real data?
2019-07-15T23:31:30 < zyp> I don't think package contents contributes to the problem
2019-07-15T23:32:13 < zyp> (well, bit-stuffing does affect timing slightly, but that's unlikely to matter)
2019-07-15T23:35:18 < catphish> ah, STs stepper motor examples are just simple firmwares to control their hardware driver chips :)
2019-07-15T23:36:47 < mrec> hmm well let me try to add a counter to it and set up the request again once it exceeds some cycles
2019-07-15T23:41:03 < karlp> (I've been trying to convince them to make a shareable test case since they first started this, hopefully you can actually convince them that woudl be useful)
2019-07-15T23:43:01 < aandrew> hm
2019-07-15T23:43:09 < aandrew> what are the big differences between the 756 and 767?
2019-07-15T23:43:18 < karlp> f7s?
2019-07-15T23:43:24 < karlp> is one single and one double fpu?
2019-07-15T23:43:50 < aandrew> theyre' both f7, the 767 is double precision
2019-07-15T23:43:57 < aandrew> up to 216MHz
2019-07-15T23:44:18 < aandrew> got 16K I/D cache each
2019-07-15T23:44:43 < aandrew> 767 has 2MB flash
2019-07-15T23:45:28 < aandrew> 756 is 4k each I/D, single precision fpu, and 1MB max
2019-07-15T23:45:38 < aandrew> I'm not seeing a lot of difference here
2019-07-15T23:46:31 < karlp> you just said single and double, those are kinda big differencs?
2019-07-15T23:46:44 < karlp> 4 times as much cache? double the flashh?
2019-07-15T23:47:46 < aandrew> well it's the 7x7 is a bigger, badder 7x6 is what I'm saying. the CPU itself is the same, just better fpu, more memory
2019-07-15T23:52:22 < aandrew> the ethernet peripheral on both seem to be damn near identical too
2019-07-15T23:52:29 < aandrew> the 7x7 has an additional errata about RMII
2019-07-15T23:56:26 < karlp> fucking keysight won't let me download the user manual for a dmm without registering
2019-07-15T23:57:26 < mrec> bugmenot.com ?
2019-07-15T23:59:10 < karlp> more like, just fuck them, I'm not convinced anymore that the meter I was looking at is at all competitive
2019-07-15T23:59:19 < karlp> brymen 829s looks pretty good right now
2019-07-15T23:59:45 < zyp> none of those gates to keep kids from falling down stairs seems to be designed for outdoor use
2019-07-15T23:59:52 < zyp> so I built my own: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/aFeLX.jpg
--- Day changed Tue Jul 16 2019
2019-07-16T00:00:24 < englishman> yes
2019-07-16T00:00:27 < englishman> fuck Keysight
2019-07-16T00:00:34 < englishman> fucking trash scammers
2019-07-16T00:01:09  * karlp tries to rmember if zyp said they were having kids, or if that was the announcement.
2019-07-16T00:01:29 < Steffanx> He mentioned it before
2019-07-16T00:01:33 < karlp> brymen has "dual display" but it's only ac+dc voltage, or ac+dc current.
2019-07-16T00:01:41 < karlp> you can't use thhhree leads and have voltage + current
2019-07-16T00:02:00 < karlp> is that normal? I was expecting dual display meant you could do power stuff properly.
2019-07-16T00:02:16 < karlp> some of them seem to only use the "second display" for temperature and frequency shit
2019-07-16T00:02:23 < englishman> now that he has car debt and house debt, perfect time to get into kid debt
2019-07-16T00:02:36 < zyp> karlp, I've mentioned it before, but it'll still be a while before my own kid will be running around :p
2019-07-16T00:02:36 < karlp> eevboggle one does it, but it's eevboggle
2019-07-16T00:02:46 < zyp> englishman, yeah, that's what I figured
2019-07-16T00:02:58 < englishman> why not go all in
2019-07-16T00:03:03 < englishman> congrats
2019-07-16T00:03:18  * karlp cheers
2019-07-16T00:04:34 < zyp> karlp, I got some friends with a one year old, and the kid has figured out that walking up and down stairs are really fun, so everytime we let it out on the balcony it runs right over there
2019-07-16T00:05:14 < englishman> has he learned that placing paving stones is fun
2019-07-16T00:05:33 < zyp> they visited yesterday, so I figured now is a good time to do something about it :p
2019-07-16T00:05:57 < aandrew> congrats!
2019-07-16T00:06:05 < zyp> englishman, yeah, especially the plastic mallet I used to adjust them into place
2019-07-16T00:06:16 < aandrew> the paving stones, or the child?
2019-07-16T00:06:24 < zyp> ha
2019-07-16T00:06:26 < zyp> :)
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2019-07-16T00:11:31 < Steffanx> All the ##stm32 are getting grown ups :P
2019-07-16T00:11:46 < Steffanx> ##stm32s*
2019-07-16T00:13:40 < Steffanx> Except for a select few
2019-07-16T00:13:50 < karlp> yar, unit/tenma second display is just for ac freq as well.
2019-07-16T00:16:55 < salcedo> qyx: wasn't getting an interrupt because i wasn't properly setting the module into lora mode.
2019-07-16T00:17:09 < Steffanx> Isnt tenma just some China rebranded?
2019-07-16T00:17:14 < salcedo> now... i just have to figure out why th emessage isn't received on my other module
2019-07-16T00:17:18 < Steffanx> Rebrander* 
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2019-07-16T00:24:16 < jadew> sup?
2019-07-16T00:24:21 < Cracki> catphish, you'll want the stm32 do generate step+dir, and a "driver" to catch that and turn it into steps/microsteps. some drivers need/prefer discrete mosfets, some don't
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2019-07-16T00:24:59 < jadew> karlp, you don't have to register
2019-07-16T00:25:08 < ds2> aren't there stm32's with H bridges built in?
2019-07-16T00:25:09 < jadew> just give them a fake e-mail address, you don't even have to verify
2019-07-16T00:25:11 < Cracki> *dirt simple* is making your own double h bridges (one bridge per coil) and fullstepping it
2019-07-16T00:25:31 < Cracki> proper drivers take care of keeping the current constant
2019-07-16T00:25:55 < Cracki> grab a breadboard and A4988/stepstick/stuff
2019-07-16T00:26:06 < Cracki> 1 buck a piece, standard 3d printer stuff
2019-07-16T00:26:33 < Cracki> also, everybody does microstepping.
2019-07-16T00:26:52 < aandrew> ds2: why would they put a high power stage lke that in an MCU
2019-07-16T00:26:54 < Cracki> also, keep away from the drv8825 unless you've ran the calculations
2019-07-16T00:27:00 < jadew> zyp, congrats, I don't think I was paying attention when you mentioned it first
2019-07-16T00:27:17 < jadew> karlp, there are few meters that do that
2019-07-16T00:27:32 < ds2> integration
2019-07-16T00:27:33 < Cracki> stepdir is trivially generated from PWM
2019-07-16T00:27:51 < Cracki> or output compare, more precisely
2019-07-16T00:27:51 < jadew> the new benchtop ones from keysight seem to do it, and a few handhelds, but I wouldn't be able to point them to you
2019-07-16T00:28:03 < zyp> jadew, I think it might have been in #libopencm3 I did
2019-07-16T00:28:27 < karlp> jadew: it's the idea that they even think thhat's a good idea that is offputting, not that there's no way aroudn it
2019-07-16T00:28:50 < karlp> Steffanx:tenma is uni-t, which is a china brand yes, like brymen apparently
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2019-07-16T00:29:13 < jadew> tenma is farnell rebranding crap
2019-07-16T00:29:41 < karlp> aandrew: https://www.st.com/en/motor-drivers/stspin32f0.html
2019-07-16T00:30:00 < jadew> zyp, I'm happy for you, good thing you got the house ready, the timing is great
2019-07-16T00:30:15 < karlp> yeah, not looking for a bench model
2019-07-16T00:31:34 < jadew> it's not clear to me, you want that feature or you think it's a bad idea and don't want it?
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2019-07-16T00:32:16 < jadew> for the record, I have the brymen 867 and it's a good meter
2019-07-16T00:32:53 < jadew> the second display came in handy and I use it on my bench meter too, so it's a very useful feature
2019-07-16T00:33:02 < Cracki> catphish, "motion controllers" can generate their own step sequences given a target position (in steps), speed, acceleration, via SPI. if you don't have that, you'll need to generate your own step sequence. that can be done "naively" by repeatedly moving a step towards the goal, unless you're at the goal, which can let you do arbitrary functions... or you calculate time between steps, which (during acceleration) involves square roots and subtraction
2019-07-16T00:34:49 < zyp> jadew, you make it sound like kids only happen by accident :p
2019-07-16T00:35:09 < catphish> Cracki: generating the step pulses is trivial afaik, i just wasn't sure if i needed a dedicated IC to do the current control
2019-07-16T00:35:20 < jadew> zyp, they rarely come when you want them to, that's for sure
2019-07-16T00:35:37 < Cracki> you want a dedicated IC for the current control. you can surely diy using an stm32, shunt resistor, comparator, DAC, ...
2019-07-16T00:35:43 < zyp> jadew, not my experience
2019-07-16T00:36:04 < Cracki> go for trinamic if you don't plan to save part costs
2019-07-16T00:36:14 < Cracki> a4988 is cheap and simple to get playing
2019-07-16T00:36:21 < catphish> Cracki: yeah, seems a dedicated current controller ASIC is the answer, just need to choose one
2019-07-16T00:36:22 < Cracki> (not trinamic but ubiquitous)
2019-07-16T00:36:37 < jadew> zyp, have quite a few friends who needed years
2019-07-16T00:36:47 < catphish> i'm happy generating the pulses to advance the steps / handle acceleration etc
2019-07-16T00:36:51 < karlp> jadew: I want the second display, I was just expecting that it woudl do more than just show the frequency of ac, whiich seems common
2019-07-16T00:37:00 < jadew> even for us, we didn't plan, but we didn't care either and it still took years until it happened
2019-07-16T00:37:17 < Cracki> the biggest problems with steppers and drivers is if the voltage is too high for that coil, you will be unable to make finer microsteps
2019-07-16T00:37:30 < jadew> maybe if you follow the ovulation periods precisely you have better odds
2019-07-16T00:37:35 < karlp> yar, brymen 867 has more digits than I need, and doesn't have some of the newer stuff on 829s
2019-07-16T00:37:36 < catphish> Cracki: i suspect i want a L6219
2019-07-16T00:37:38 < Cracki> nema17, the "standard" for 3d printers, is ok with 12-14 volt
2019-07-16T00:38:12 < Cracki> says upto 0.75 A per winding, that's about ok for nema 17
2019-07-16T00:38:19 < Cracki> *12-24 volt
2019-07-16T00:38:26 < jadew> karlp, yeah, if I could get one that can do power too, I'd get it
2019-07-16T00:38:41 < jadew> I often wish my bench meter could do that
2019-07-16T00:38:51 < jadew> would simplify things a lot
2019-07-16T00:38:55 < Cracki> L6219 looks like an older part
2019-07-16T00:39:18 < Cracki> unless you have a specific reason to pick it, consider others before deciding
2019-07-16T00:39:37 < catphish> Cracki: essentially i just want a modern low current part with minimal external components
2019-07-16T00:39:54 < Cracki> then the L6219 is not for you. afaics it needs sense resistors.
2019-07-16T00:40:17 < Cracki> the good "old" A4988 has barely any external components it needs
2019-07-16T00:41:03 < Cracki> here you can steal schematics: https://www.pololu.com/product/1182
2019-07-16T00:41:49 < Cracki> you can certainly do better than a4988 but I'm not sure L6219 is doing that
2019-07-16T00:41:52 < Steffanx> You can also try more often jadew  lol
2019-07-16T00:42:22 < jadew> Steffanx, I was young, I was trying often enough :P
2019-07-16T00:42:37 < Cracki> anyway, your decision :)
2019-07-16T00:42:39 < catphish> Cracki: i like the A4988, seems old but effective, but i wasn't sure if i could actually buy it
2019-07-16T00:42:53 < catphish> i just want something current
2019-07-16T00:43:31 < Steffanx> Trinamic it is then?
2019-07-16T00:43:55 < Cracki> what caliber of motor do you aim for?
2019-07-16T00:44:21 < catphish> for this project i just want to rotate a needle, so something tiny
2019-07-16T00:44:55 < Cracki> huh, maybe a servo then?
2019-07-16T00:45:00 < zyp> jadew, we got it on the first try
2019-07-16T00:45:07 < Cracki> unless that's a needle you can stab werewolves with
2019-07-16T00:45:25 < catphish> weirdly i hadn't considered a servo
2019-07-16T00:45:39 < zyp> decided to start trying in november since the house were almost ready and all, and now the kid is due some time next month
2019-07-16T00:45:45 < catphish> that's probably a really sane option, as long as it can achieve decent resolution
2019-07-16T00:45:50 < jadew> zyp, neat
2019-07-16T00:45:55 < Cracki> what kinda resolution?
2019-07-16T00:46:03 < Cracki> you said needle, I imagined an instrument gauge
2019-07-16T00:46:25 < jadew> you probably got lucky
2019-07-16T00:46:45 < catphish> Cracki: yeah, it's just an intrument guage for a car, so ideally 1 degree accuracy
2019-07-16T00:46:54 < zyp> jadew, yeah, we were originally talking about having a kid in 2020, but figured it wouldn't hurt to start early since everything else would be ready anyway
2019-07-16T00:46:55 < Cracki> servos should do that
2019-07-16T00:47:23 < Cracki> when in doubt, sample a transfer curve :P
2019-07-16T00:47:45 < jadew> zyp, good idea, the earlier the better
2019-07-16T00:47:48 < catphish> servo seems like a reasonable idea
2019-07-16T00:48:02 < Cracki> the downside of steppers is they want their high current all the time, or else they lose position slightly
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2019-07-16T00:48:54 < zyp> jadew, but apparently it's not that rare, I looked up some stats and IIRC for couples without fertility problems the rate that gets pregnant first month of trying is 43% or something
2019-07-16T00:49:13 < catphish> Cracki: don't servos suffer with that?
2019-07-16T00:49:19 < Cracki> nah
2019-07-16T00:49:26 < catphish> how can a servo avoid needing current all the time?
2019-07-16T00:49:28 < Cracki> servos only apply power in reaction to deflection
2019-07-16T00:49:34 < Cracki> they *measure* all the time
2019-07-16T00:49:39 < Cracki> steppers don't measure shit
2019-07-16T00:49:50 < catphish> sevos they measure the error and correct for it?
2019-07-16T00:49:54 < Cracki> yes
2019-07-16T00:50:08 < catphish> that's insanely clever
2019-07-16T00:50:14 < jadew> zyp, yeah, I guess you really have to "try" when it matters
2019-07-16T00:50:18 < Cracki> servo means the motor is "serving" under a control loop
2019-07-16T00:50:39 < jadew> a stable menstrual cycle probably helps too
2019-07-16T00:50:57 < catphish> well a servo seems like it's magically solve all my needs
2019-07-16T00:51:16 < catphish> as long as they're sufficiently smooth / accurage
2019-07-16T00:51:20 < catphish> *accurate
2019-07-16T00:51:26 < Cracki> random picture https://www.steren.com.mx/media/catalog/product/cache/e4d64343b1bc593f1c5348fe05efa4a6/image/2030150ed/servomotor-con-torque-de-11-kgf-cm.jpg
2019-07-16T00:51:30 < Cracki> they can be had quite small
2019-07-16T00:51:50 < Cracki> you send them a PWM signal. 1.5-2.5 ms high time for full left/full right position
2019-07-16T00:52:00 < Cracki> frequency as often as you like/can
2019-07-16T00:52:03 < zyp> isn't servo just «motor with feedback controller»?
2019-07-16T00:52:10 < Cracki> yes
2019-07-16T00:52:19 < mrec> I will change the transfers to bulk, and remove the custom control messages
2019-07-16T00:52:22 < Cracki> the motor is the serving part of the loop
2019-07-16T00:52:34 < Cracki> servo *motor* is the motor. servo the whole mechanism.
2019-07-16T00:52:41 < Cracki> *servomechanism
2019-07-16T00:52:50 < zyp> just add a feedback controller to a stepper and you have a servo
2019-07-16T00:53:01 < Cracki> but enough of splitting hairs
2019-07-16T00:53:04 < zyp> I remember there were a project for that
2019-07-16T00:53:21 < Cracki> why build a servo when you can buy a servo
2019-07-16T00:53:49 < catphish> it does seem like buying a servo is the sane option
2019-07-16T00:53:53 < Cracki> closed loop stepper driving can be bought but it's not cheap
2019-07-16T00:54:00 < catphish> i only worry about the accuracy of the control
2019-07-16T00:54:03 < Cracki> yeah servo, nice and simple
2019-07-16T00:54:15 < Cracki> such servos contain a potentiometer
2019-07-16T00:54:20 < zyp> hmm, this shit maybe: https://tropical-labs.com/mechaduino/
2019-07-16T00:54:43 < Cracki> it'll probably stay accurate for a while, and if you don't make it snap back and forth, not much wear either
2019-07-16T00:54:51 < zyp> yeah, that shit
2019-07-16T00:55:03 < Cracki> zyp, those might be BLDC motors
2019-07-16T00:55:19 < Cracki> oh, they're steppers indeed
2019-07-16T00:55:24 < zyp> yeah
2019-07-16T00:55:46 < Cracki> ah, they use a 14 bit encoder. that's nice.
2019-07-16T00:56:10 < Cracki> I would still consider a BLDC before a stepper if I went for closed loop anyway
2019-07-16T00:56:18 < zyp> it has the same kind of encoder as we use in the stuff I work on, just a magnet on the shaft
2019-07-16T00:57:05 < catphish> i was originally thinking open loop would be good enough
2019-07-16T00:57:05 < zyp> except the one we use is only 12b in some industrial package with some weird SPI-ish over RS485 transceivers-protocol
2019-07-16T00:57:19 < catphish> i wonder what car tacho/speedos use
2019-07-16T00:57:43 < Cracki> with such an "rc car" servo you basically command it open-loop
2019-07-16T00:57:47 < Cracki> just send it PWM
2019-07-16T00:57:55 < zyp> catphish, what are you doing anyway?
2019-07-16T00:58:00 < Cracki> probably something similar, or galvos
2019-07-16T00:58:58 < catphish> zyp: looking into building a car speedometer actually, using gps and a real dial based display
2019-07-16T00:59:19 < zyp> ah
2019-07-16T00:59:25 < catphish> essentially my question is "how to accurately move a needle???!!!111"
2019-07-16T00:59:36 < Cracki> servo is gonna be good enough
2019-07-16T00:59:43 < Cracki> spend more for more accuracy
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2019-07-16T01:00:04 < Cracki> there are even such servos that have been modded with one of those 12/14 bit magnetic encoder/resolver
2019-07-16T01:00:09 < Cracki> highly accurate
2019-07-16T01:01:00 < catphish> i suspect that real car speedos use open loop steppers, but i'm not certain
2019-07-16T01:01:23 < Cracki> I doubt it
2019-07-16T01:01:27 < Cracki> they move too smoothly
2019-07-16T01:01:37 < Cracki> steppers are a waste of power if you don't need torque
2019-07-16T01:01:44 < Cracki> and gauges don't need torque
2019-07-16T01:01:54 < zyp> pff, you can reduce the power if you don't need torque
2019-07-16T01:01:58 < Cracki> they might use something better than a potentiometer tho
2019-07-16T01:02:20 < zyp> the only problem with open loop steppers is that you need to know the initial position
2019-07-16T01:02:35 < salcedo> got request: AAAAHELLO MOTHAFUCKA!!!!! Moisture: 3146
2019-07-16T01:02:37 < salcedo> RSSI: -35
2019-07-16T01:02:39 < salcedo> :)
2019-07-16T01:02:58 < catphish> initial position is easily fixed by rotating towards a stop at startup
2019-07-16T01:03:21 < Cracki> srsly nobody uses a stepper for that
2019-07-16T01:03:30 < Cracki> you'd need good microstepping to make them shut up
2019-07-16T01:03:40 < Cracki> or very weak voltage
2019-07-16T01:03:48 < englishman> catphish: speedos are just lcd tft displays now
2019-07-16T01:03:59 < catphish> englishman: mine isn't
2019-07-16T01:04:04 < englishman> time to upgrade
2019-07-16T01:04:25 < zyp> just buy some speedometer steppers: https://www.banggood.com/no/6-PCS-Stepper-Motor-Speedometer-Gauge-Repair-Kit-Instrument-Cluster10-PCS-Bulbs-p-1146626.html
2019-07-16T01:04:27 < Cracki> wtf it is a kind of stepper? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICJqAXFqSUw
2019-07-16T01:05:46 < zyp> catphish, just ramming a mechanical stop with a stepper is not really a very good way to home it :)
2019-07-16T01:05:59 < catphish> zyp: why not?
2019-07-16T01:06:48 < zyp> ever tried fucking up the endstop switch on a 3d printer? :) would not recommend
2019-07-16T01:07:27 < Cracki> mechanically, just run into the "END" stop
2019-07-16T01:07:34 < englishman> if you want to go back into ancient history, old speedos were driven from the transmission against a slip disc and calibrated spring, before they turned into galvanometers
2019-07-16T01:07:40 < Cracki> reduce power, it'll helplessly vibrate
2019-07-16T01:08:06 < englishman> they turned into servos in high end cars like 20 years ago and if you buy an autometer shit now it is probably a servo
2019-07-16T01:08:09 < catphish> well there's a difference between a high power stepper slipping its drive belt and a puny one pushing against an endstop
2019-07-16T01:08:26 < Cracki> you can underpower even a big stepper
2019-07-16T01:08:51 < zyp> or you can use a stepper driver with current feedback
2019-07-16T01:08:51 < Cracki> coil current ~ torque/deflection
2019-07-16T01:09:01 < Cracki> steppers only generate torque when deflected by load
2019-07-16T01:09:06 < englishman> anyway in the last 20 minutes of discussing what a stepper motor is you could have #included ugfx and made your speedo
2019-07-16T01:09:16 < Cracki> (no load when rotor is aligned with magnetic field)
2019-07-16T01:09:19 < Cracki> *no torque
2019-07-16T01:09:39 < zyp> some of the new trinamic drivers have that, so you can detect mechanical endstops just through the stepper current
2019-07-16T01:12:26 < catphish> i wonder why a stepper driver is needed vs just assuming that current is going to be v / coil resistance
2019-07-16T01:12:48 < Cracki> mostly for microstepping
2019-07-16T01:13:05 < Cracki> there you want the coils to assume sin/cos currents. you move on a unit circle.
2019-07-16T01:13:12 < catphish> Cracki: same applies though, why not just apply proportional voltage
2019-07-16T01:13:22 < Cracki> where full steps are at the diagonals
2019-07-16T01:13:38 < Cracki> lots to explain
2019-07-16T01:13:49 < Cracki> basically, more voltage changes coil current faster
2019-07-16T01:13:59 < Cracki> but more voltage *constantly* also causes MUCH coil current
2019-07-16T01:14:14 < Cracki> and for a stepper you have to change coil current for every step
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2019-07-16T01:15:19 < catphish> so it makes sense to apply excess voltage, then reduce it as current rises
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2019-07-16T01:15:35 < Cracki> exactly
2019-07-16T01:15:44 < Cracki> that's what many of those drivers do
2019-07-16T01:16:16 < Cracki> and they use the shunt (or mosfet rdson) to measure the current, to know when they can cut voltage
2019-07-16T01:17:48  * catphish usually dislikes inductance
2019-07-16T01:19:48 < Cracki> how do these gauge steppers home anyway? some sensor/switch or just "mechanical" endstop?
2019-07-16T01:20:22 < Cracki> ah, the motor has mechanical stops
2019-07-16T01:21:24 < catphish> i assumed it was just a mechanical stop
2019-07-16T01:21:50 < catphish> many start by doing a full speep clockwse then anticlockwise
2019-07-16T01:22:26 < catphish> never knew whether this was just for fun or a useful improvement over just pushing against the stop
2019-07-16T01:23:10 < Cracki> hmhm
2019-07-16T01:42:05 < mawk> [00:15:19] <catphish> so it makes sense to apply excess voltage, then reduce it as current rises
2019-07-16T01:42:09 < mawk> some do it with thermal shutdown
2019-07-16T01:42:14 < mawk> instead of measuring current
2019-07-16T01:43:11 < mawk> ah you're talking about coils, I thought you were talking about driving power mosfets
2019-07-16T01:43:12 < mawk> nevermind
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2019-07-16T02:04:51 < turnip420> Is there a good way to make a pin high when a task is running and low when it's not in freertos
2019-07-16T02:05:05 < turnip420> I assume you have to get into the kernel somewhere
2019-07-16T02:05:11 < turnip420> At the contect switch
2019-07-16T02:05:16 < karlp> any task? or a particular task?
2019-07-16T02:05:18 < turnip420> context*
2019-07-16T02:05:23 < turnip420> Particular
2019-07-16T02:05:28 < karlp> freertos has lots of hooks designed for profiling you could use.
2019-07-16T02:05:29 < turnip420> Each task gets a bit
2019-07-16T02:05:33 < turnip420> pin*
2019-07-16T02:06:11 < karlp> I'd suggest that debugging multi tasks via aa logic analyser having a bit per task sounds like perhaps the wrong approach.
2019-07-16T02:06:14 < karlp> but each to their own.
2019-07-16T02:07:57 < turnip420> Any suggestions?
2019-07-16T02:13:56 < kakimir> hello night crew
2019-07-16T02:14:04 < mawk> using preemption I suppose turnip420 
2019-07-16T02:18:38 < Cracki> freertos has hooks for task entry and exit
2019-07-16T02:18:40 < Cracki> turnip420, ^
2019-07-16T02:19:07 < Cracki> hook meaning you can define a handler function and then you set some define to enable this hooking, and then it's called
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2019-07-16T02:19:38 < Cracki> what do you need this for?
2019-07-16T02:23:30 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-07-16T02:50:15 < Thorn> karlp: bm867s 5/5 would again
2019-07-16T02:51:05 < jadew> 4/5 here
2019-07-16T02:51:22 < jadew> my leads went bad
2019-07-16T02:57:46 < jadew> I think law makers are fucking insane
2019-07-16T02:58:14 < jadew> there's so much legislation to go through for selling shit outside of the EU
2019-07-16T03:10:25 < Cracki> they don't like your country becoming wealthy from exporting goods
2019-07-16T03:10:46 < jadew> it sure looks like it
2019-07-16T03:11:15 < Cracki> and by country I mean the union of western socialist republics
2019-07-16T03:11:18 < jadew> all that crap adds extra costs, making local manufacturers less competitive
2019-07-16T03:12:09 < Cracki> it's to advantage the european economic area, compared to the rest of the world
2019-07-16T03:12:27 < jadew> how?
2019-07-16T03:12:34 < Cracki> so you'll only sell within the EU
2019-07-16T03:12:48 < Cracki> so your advanced goods don't leave the continent
2019-07-16T03:13:05 < jadew> how about money coming in? that's not good?
2019-07-16T03:13:07 < Cracki> so... they can fuck you over :P
2019-07-16T03:13:18 < Cracki> no that's really bad because that money goes in YOUR pocket
2019-07-16T03:13:29 < jadew> heh
2019-07-16T03:13:45 < Cracki> if you deal with foreign powers, they want a piece of the cake
2019-07-16T03:14:42 < Cracki> all import/export restrictions, sanctions, taxes, ... are to shape the flow of goods
2019-07-16T03:15:23 < jadew> don't know, it seems like economic suicide
2019-07-16T03:15:45 < Cracki> maybe they figure, if you sell your stuff to the chinese for cheap, you'll sell it for cheap to germany and france too, which looks bad for the economy
2019-07-16T03:15:51 < Cracki> no clue
2019-07-16T03:15:59 < jadew> making your products more expensive, through loss, is just dumb
2019-07-16T03:16:18 < Cracki> sounds like planned economy
2019-07-16T03:16:25 < jadew> and at the same time you accept goods from countries with no such restrictions, without restrictions
2019-07-16T03:16:25 < Cracki> mountains of milk and honey, uh butter
2019-07-16T03:16:40 < Cracki> maybe they really do want to destroy europe
2019-07-16T03:18:03 < jadew> in the past it used to be possible to send something outside of the EU from any postal office
2019-07-16T03:18:27 < jadew> there are now only two postal offices that do that in this city (a 4 million people city)
2019-07-16T03:18:43 < jadew> and only one of them services companies
2019-07-16T03:19:00 < Cracki> the most sense I can hallucinate in this would be that it's really about you doing high tech stuff that needs to stay put, and the rest of the world doing low tech stuff that's a good idea to import so the local economy doesn't dare waste is resources on doing such mind numbing work
2019-07-16T03:19:11 < Cracki> wow
2019-07-16T03:20:00 < jadew> Cracki, I thought that's the reason too, but I don't know if that's how actually work in reality
2019-07-16T03:20:06 < Cracki> they need this because it's not easy http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2015/may/tradoc_153446.pdf
2019-07-16T03:20:20 < jadew> I don't think you can force high-tech development, by blocking low-tech one
2019-07-16T03:20:25 < Cracki> oh nvm, it's about exporting TO the eu
2019-07-16T03:20:32 < Cracki> I agree
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2019-07-16T03:20:57 < Cracki> it's near impossible to "force" workers to become more educated or smarter by importing unskilled labor
2019-07-16T03:21:03 < Cracki> that only depresses wages
2019-07-16T03:21:21 < Cracki> depressed wages are a bad idea, but depressed cost of goods... maybe not
2019-07-16T03:21:52 < Cracki> maybe it's europe's limp wrist
2019-07-16T03:22:08 < Cracki> don't tax anything going in, but everyone else taxes european goods
2019-07-16T03:23:07 < Cracki> european goods are valued, so foreign govts can take a slice. foreign goods are near worthless so nobody can feasibly take a slice
2019-07-16T03:23:42 < Cracki> http://ec.europa.eu/trade/import-and-export-rules/export-from-eu/
2019-07-16T03:24:13 < Cracki> is your problem just that you have no post offices that do it, or any bureaucratic hurdles?
2019-07-16T03:24:27 < jadew> it's the bureaucratic shit
2019-07-16T03:24:44 < jadew> they require all the invoices for all the components I have in my products
2019-07-16T03:25:05 < Cracki> wat
2019-07-16T03:25:09 < jadew> for shipping _one_ item out
2019-07-16T03:25:11 < Cracki> I think that's silly
2019-07-16T03:25:16 < jadew> it's fucking stupid
2019-07-16T03:25:22 < Cracki> you take components and make a new thing from them
2019-07-16T03:25:27 < Cracki> only your invoice should count
2019-07-16T03:25:36 < Cracki> maybe they have no fucking clue what they're doing
2019-07-16T03:25:36 < jadew> exactly
2019-07-16T03:26:03 < jadew> don't know, apparently it's all based on some EU shit
2019-07-16T03:26:26 < Cracki> maybe talk to some local politician, get routed to whoever knows what's going on
2019-07-16T03:26:32 < jadew> which is rather recent
2019-07-16T03:26:37 < Cracki> I wouldn't trust that company
2019-07-16T03:27:41 < jadew> anyway, the thing is that it's a lot of paperwork, when anyone else only has to slap on a CN22
2019-07-16T03:28:08 < jadew> and I have to get to the one place that does this, adding a lot of extra cost
2019-07-16T03:28:33 < jadew> because I don't live in bangladesh, so my time doesn't cost cents per hour
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2019-07-16T03:29:25 < Cracki> for germany, apparently CN22/23 and whatever destination country's requirements are enough... https://www.dhl.de/en/toolbar/footer/informationen/zollinformationen.html
2019-07-16T03:29:55 < jadew> you spend an hour or more in traffic, 30 minutes in queue, your profit is gone 50 minutes ago
2019-07-16T03:30:05 < Cracki> lol
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2019-07-16T03:32:04 < jadew> I'm really trying to find a way around all of this, but it seems so insane
2019-07-16T03:32:29 < Cracki> some national trade association must know something about this
2019-07-16T03:32:41 < jadew> the more I struggle with crap like this the more I come to the realization that I have to move to a different country
2019-07-16T03:34:33 < jadew> either that, or do something else
2019-07-16T03:34:33 < Cracki> DHL has listed each particular country's import regulations in some file (in german)
2019-07-16T03:34:49 < Cracki> for france, for example, that's a LOT of stuff they don't want
2019-07-16T03:35:25 < Cracki> maybe this filling of forms you do is to cover most of those cases by asking things you might not need to tell
2019-07-16T03:36:17 < jadew> don't know, I'll try to get a deal with DHL, because it's simpler though them
2019-07-16T03:36:26 < jadew> and most importantly, they come to pick it up
2019-07-16T03:39:13 < jadew> anyway, I want to see a movie
2019-07-16T03:40:32 -!- friendofafriend [~chat@pool-71-120-200-135.nrflva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2019-07-16T03:41:14 < jadew> netflix's top pics for me are movies I've already seen
2019-07-16T03:42:01 < Cracki> people who spent money on movies spent it on those: https://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/
2019-07-16T03:42:24 < Cracki> there's a direct to tape movie called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Park_Is_Mine_(1986_film)
2019-07-16T03:42:27 < jadew> is that in reverse order?
2019-07-16T03:42:33 < Cracki> in any order you like
2019-07-16T03:42:47 < Cracki> by year, by week, ranked
2019-07-16T03:43:59 < jadew> thanks for the link, I'm sure I'll find something
2019-07-16T03:48:43 < jadew> lol, I wanted to see if "Halloween" was on netflix and this is how netflix arranged the search results: http://5.12.174.230/stuff/netflix_search.png
2019-07-16T03:48:53 < jadew> I guess in order of relevance?
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2019-07-16T03:50:28 < Cracki> weird order
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2019-07-16T03:52:25 < jadew> there's nothing on netflix
2019-07-16T03:52:47 < jadew> they show up there 2 years after the run on cable tv
2019-07-16T03:53:55 < Cracki> they still can't compete with piracy?
2019-07-16T03:54:25 < Cracki> a friend today explained to me that he can't get original english sound movies and shows on netflix. they'll only give him the german dubbed ones.
2019-07-16T03:54:48 < jadew> that's weird
2019-07-16T03:55:02 < jadew> you get to choose here
2019-07-16T03:55:02 < Cracki> because globalists partition their subjects into regions
2019-07-16T03:55:28 < Cracki> huh maybe you're not important enough to get those privileges taken away
2019-07-16T03:56:03 < salcedo> not regions. megaregions.
2019-07-16T03:56:06 < Cracki> or they know they can't pull that shit over there, where people have no patience for capitalist bs
2019-07-16T03:56:42 < salcedo> inside each megaregion is a "Capitol", where the millenial avocado toast eating foozball playing javascript developers get babysat to watch youtube videos all and collect their UBI.
2019-07-16T03:57:32 < salcedo> outside the walls of each Capitol, there are legions of lesser-humans that were rejected by GoogleAmazon's DNA purity programme. begging for scraps. suffering from famine related disease.
2019-07-16T03:57:52 < englishman> nice blog
2019-07-16T03:58:03 < englishman> no innovations tonight i guess
2019-07-16T03:58:53 < salcedo> sorry no innovations. i got my rfm95w code working. wanted to write a library myself to learn HAL bullshit.
2019-07-16T03:59:00 < jadew> I got my box
2019-07-16T03:59:11 < salcedo> this has already been done 100 times before.
2019-07-16T03:59:13 < jadew> not innovation, but close
2019-07-16T04:01:01 < salcedo> since i only have 1 nucleo board, was using radiohead library on an adafruit feather m0 + lora module
2019-07-16T04:01:39 < salcedo> the fifo in the datasheet says 256 bytes.
2019-07-16T04:02:00 < salcedo> radiohead appears to be off by one, then there's a 4 byte header specific to radiohead.
2019-07-16T04:02:24 < salcedo> which i don't understand because it seems some header stuff can be stored in registers and not the fifo? need to read more
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2019-07-16T06:26:05 < R2COM> sup
2019-07-16T06:53:59 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEzLDqELh70 lmao fucking owned
2019-07-16T07:25:10 < rajkosto> why is he using the weeb edition of crystal disk info lol
2019-07-16T07:26:03 < dongs> yeah theres a comment about that under the video its hilarious
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2019-07-16T07:47:23 < R2COM> 17 mins? i dont even watch pornhub video for that long
2019-07-16T07:52:41 < Ultrasauce> might want to work on your edging, theres a followup
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2019-07-16T09:46:39 < Thorn> what is the difference between LV and LVC?
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2019-07-16T13:15:44 < karlp> jadew: what regulations are you dealing with for export out of eu?
2019-07-16T13:16:57 < karlp> you sound like you'r ein some romanian local corruption not anything eu based reading further jadew
2019-07-16T13:20:29 < jadew> karlp, tbh, I'm not sure how much of this is bad interpretation on the law, on the customs' part
2019-07-16T13:21:22 < jadew> when I spoke to DHL they required similar declarations, but they didn't mention presenting all the invoices (which was required by the regular post guys)
2019-07-16T13:22:15 < jadew> Haohmaru, this time I'm selling, that's the crazy part
2019-07-16T13:22:41 < jadew> it applies to any country outside the EU
2019-07-16T13:22:59 < jadew> when selling to the EU, I can just go to the post office and mail it like normal
2019-07-16T13:23:58 < mrec> zyp: thanks for the discussion yesterday, I have changed the control communication to bulk now and there's no problem
2019-07-16T13:24:08 < effractur> just fill in the CN22/CN23 form
2019-07-16T13:24:15 < mrec> so seems like there's really a HW issue with usb control messages
2019-07-16T13:24:30 < jadew> effractur, I did, but they completely ignored that
2019-07-16T13:24:55 < effractur> did you add the invoice etc to it?
2019-07-16T13:25:00 < jadew> yep
2019-07-16T13:25:03 < jadew> everything was in order
2019-07-16T13:25:11 < jadew> (according to my logic)
2019-07-16T13:25:12 < zyp> mrec, you've changed the control request to bulk communication instead?
2019-07-16T13:26:05 < effractur> on large parcels the invoice need to be added 3 times
2019-07-16T13:26:09 < effractur> afaik
2019-07-16T13:27:06 < jadew> effractur, the invoice was not the problem, they wanted a paper trail for everything in that product
2019-07-16T13:27:25 < effractur> ah wierd
2019-07-16T13:27:41 < mrec> zyp: yes
2019-07-16T13:27:42 < effractur> jadew: for the country of origin thing?
2019-07-16T13:27:49 < effractur> jadew: to know what the import costs are?
2019-07-16T13:27:50 < mrec> zyp: absolutely no problem
2019-07-16T13:28:36 < jadew> effractur, I have no clue, I wasn't able to go there myself because I was on vacation - I'll have to pay them a visit tomorrow and get more info face to face
2019-07-16T13:28:48 < zyp> mrec, like expected
2019-07-16T13:29:19 < jadew> but I was with them on the phone and with DHL and got similar storries
2019-07-16T13:29:45 < effractur> ah, it sounds like they want to know how many % of a product is from a spefici country for the import charges
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2019-07-16T13:30:04 < jadew> effractur, but I'm exporting
2019-07-16T13:30:07 < jadew> what do they care?
2019-07-16T13:30:19 < zyp> mrec, only control requests have the setup/data/status sequence, and the symptoms you've found indicates a bug in getting from the setup stage to the data stage
2019-07-16T13:30:32 < effractur> jadew: the country that is reciving maby wants toe documents?
2019-07-16T13:30:45 < zyp> so it's only natural that other transfer types (bulk/iso/interrupt) are unaffected
2019-07-16T13:31:08 < jadew> effractur, yeah, maybe that's it... although I thought "Made in X" is pretty much all that was needed
2019-07-16T13:31:39 < effractur> jadew: yea but you need to have proof about the made in X
2019-07-16T13:31:50 < jadew> maybe that's why some products have the label "Made in X with foreign and domestic parts"?
2019-07-16T13:31:52 < effractur> there are strict rules when you can call something make in X
2019-07-16T13:32:11 < jadew> well, I'm the manufacturer
2019-07-16T13:32:21 < effractur> but here are parts in there that are not from X
2019-07-16T13:32:31 < jadew> true, none are from X
2019-07-16T13:32:48 < jadew> the product is tho, it never existed outside of X before
2019-07-16T13:32:57 < effractur> so for example if the PCB is made in china + the enclosure but you put it to gether in X
2019-07-16T13:33:19 < jadew> manufacturing is more than assembly tho, isn't it?
2019-07-16T13:33:34 < effractur> true
2019-07-16T13:33:35 < effractur> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_origin
2019-07-16T13:34:49 < jadew> In the ‘substantial transformation’ criterion, ‘origin is determined by regarding as the country of origin the country where the last substantial manufacturing or processing, deemed sufficient to give a commodity its essential character, has been carried out.’
2019-07-16T13:36:49 < jadew> I think by that rule alone you get to put made in X, if you assemble it in X
2019-07-16T13:37:20 < effractur> it depends if the transformation is large enough
2019-07-16T13:37:36 < effractur> and then you also still have the export/import bans of specific countries
2019-07-16T13:38:39 < jadew> hmm, maybe that's what it is? although I heard it only applies to finished products, not components
2019-07-16T13:38:51 < jadew> not sure tho
2019-07-16T13:41:08 < salcedo> Made in USA***
2019-07-16T13:42:23 < salcedo> ***"Made in USA" sticker was printed in USA with printer made in China using ink and sticker material made in China. Product was made in Sudanese sweatshop with parts made in China.
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2019-07-16T13:45:12 < jly> sounds all fucked up
2019-07-16T14:38:50 < mrec> china is a relatively safe haven
2019-07-16T14:39:07 < mrec> especially in the electronic industry... Europe is nothing but shit
2019-07-16T14:39:35 < mrec> no wonder that Europe has the same amount of semiconductor market share as Taiwan
2019-07-16T14:40:27 < mrec> the holy market, small manufacturers have to register in every single european country to be allowed to sell items into those countries
2019-07-16T14:40:49 < mrec> (=recycling fee, WEEE)
2019-07-16T14:42:00 < mrec> and there are some additional jokes like a few products will be listed in 2 groups and need twice the disposal fee
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2019-07-16T14:42:24 < mrec> just because a chip has some features which can be listed in 2 groups!
2019-07-16T14:43:18 < mrec> and while that happens chinese companies can import to europe without having to take care about that
2019-07-16T14:43:41 < mrec> that's why china is a relatively safe haven
2019-07-16T14:45:18 < mrec> And to name some of the features: RF + consumer products (in general) which can be listed in 2 groups.
2019-07-16T15:07:20 < salcedo> innovation and enrichment of communities and families?
2019-07-16T15:07:22 < salcedo> say what?
2019-07-16T15:07:44 < salcedo> social and economic mobility? you must be dreaming.
2019-07-16T15:09:19 < salcedo> US/EU don't want producers. they don't want their citizens innovating. they don't want a middle class. they don't want their citizens owning and operating businesses.
2019-07-16T15:11:01 < salcedo> they want obedient slaves that will work for free, collect their UBI, and involuntarily contribute brainpower to the internet marketing clickbait shitpost AI hive mind
2019-07-16T15:12:48 < salcedo> there is a need for RF products to be vetted before being allowed into any country. each country has rules that must be followed.
2019-07-16T15:13:20 < salcedo> but it's a double standard in most cases
2019-07-16T15:14:03 < salcedo> business within the country is strangled by regulation, high cost of certifications, etc.
2019-07-16T15:14:31 < salcedo> meanwhile, china is let right in. no questions asked.
2019-07-16T15:29:26 < mrec> well you can make RF out of everything nowadays .. so group HW into any kind of shit groups because someone of those holy official recycle companies will handle it appropriate of course.
2019-07-16T15:34:54 < mrec> I hope Deutsche Bank will go bust in Germany somehow that will make Europe to throw the dice again, it would be a game changer
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2019-07-16T15:54:57 < Cracki> I see you've noticed the money elites
2019-07-16T15:56:37 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyUXC3886Ic
2019-07-16T15:56:40 < dongs> fuckin retards
2019-07-16T15:57:21 < dongs> they should sell this kinda heatsink for a phone too
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2019-07-16T16:10:11 < salcedo> hell yeah
2019-07-16T16:10:19 < salcedo> just what i need for my raspberry pi 4
2019-07-16T16:14:25 < salcedo> oh wait. i don't have a pi 4 :(
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2019-07-16T16:15:21 < salcedo> the fan didn't a damn thing
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2019-07-16T16:22:14 < salcedo> dongs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXRmdDAWHMg
2019-07-16T16:22:44 < dongs> isnt that just the power factor correction shit
2019-07-16T16:22:52 < dongs> like those snakeoil cap banks that retards sell you for $2000
2019-07-16T16:22:55 < dongs> to put outside the house
2019-07-16T16:22:56 < dongs> that do nothing
2019-07-16T16:23:21 < salcedo> what are you talking about? if they're $2000, they obviously do something.
2019-07-16T16:23:43 < salcedo> you can enhance their efficacy by putting a box of crystals on top of them
2019-07-16T16:24:30 < salcedo> make sure you use the pink high power energy vibe crystals, though. otherwise totally not worth it.
2019-07-16T16:24:52 < salcedo> i used cheap crystals from etsy.com and it actually INCREASED my electric bill.
2019-07-16T16:26:00 < salcedo> there's crystals all over the house to help me keep bad energy out of the house. i told my boss about it and was immediately fired. now i can't afford my electric bill. they shut it off.
2019-07-16T16:26:16 < salcedo> which means 0 energy use. no more bill. THAT's savings!
2019-07-16T16:33:20 < salcedo> back on topic - i can't seem to find a good source of information about the do's and don'ts of stm32 interrupt handlers
2019-07-16T16:33:53 < salcedo> yesterday i learned that HAL_Delay() is bad.
2019-07-16T16:34:20 < salcedo> but this seems subjective - because some people can make it work by changing systick priority
2019-07-16T16:35:48 < salcedo> also someone put an oscope on different methods of creating microsecond delays, and found that the commonly used DWT method is totally inaccurate
2019-07-16T16:36:45 < salcedo> tons of regurgitation for blog cred but no real substance
2019-07-16T16:37:39 < dongs> wut
2019-07-16T16:38:20 < dongs> i've never needed precision enouhg delays where DWT or highres timer + simple wait loop didnt work
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2019-07-16T16:57:47 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWS4Qp3Yn0A
2019-07-16T17:01:26 < aandrew> dongs: cap bank correction works perfectly well and is electrically sound... IF YOU HAVE A POOR POWER FACTOR
2019-07-16T17:01:46 < aandrew> almost no house on the planet has a lagging power factor
2019-07-16T17:02:21 < aandrew> before switchmode supplies were popular they were all linear and you had insane harmonic distortion on the current, but no phase lag
2019-07-16T17:02:29 < aandrew> so cap banks don't do shit
2019-07-16T17:02:36 < dongs> right
2019-07-16T17:12:52 < basker> aandrew, i think that is normal the power factor be a little bit lagged in residential loads
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2019-07-16T17:14:38 < basker> current delayed in relation to the voltage caused by inductive loads
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2019-07-16T17:26:20 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/llrG2Z3qjvk
2019-07-16T17:26:27 < bitmask> :P
2019-07-16T17:37:09 < Steffanx> I want to see your brain (in)activity
2019-07-16T17:37:33 < bitmask> :)
2019-07-16T17:38:44 < bitmask> I want to create a mold and cast epoxy into the brain and have these inside set to a follow animation: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32911044733.html
2019-07-16T17:38:52 < bitmask> look like brain activity
2019-07-16T17:41:51 < englishman> so I'm trying to do the same things on this Keysight as on the tek
2019-07-16T17:41:53 < englishman> simple shit
2019-07-16T17:42:06 < englishman> some logic analysis with analogue channels
2019-07-16T17:42:19 < englishman> some jitter shit, bathtub and eye analysis
2019-07-16T17:42:24 < englishman> what a FUCKING pain
2019-07-16T17:42:28 < englishman> fuck Keysight
2019-07-16T17:42:52 < englishman> in logic analyzer mode you can't have it view the entire packet for example i2c exchange and also view the data
2019-07-16T17:43:04 < englishman> cuz it prints Text too large cuz the display is shit
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2019-07-16T17:43:46 < englishman> you can't separate logic and analogue signals like the tek because it has an ancient fuckinf interface like a $300 rigol
2019-07-16T17:44:22 < englishman> you can't even separate eye diagram from the scope trace due to ui limitation
2019-07-16T17:44:35 < englishman> the jitter measurements are basic bitch shit
2019-07-16T17:44:43 < englishman> the worst fft I have ever seen
2019-07-16T17:44:58 < englishman> and it uses all 4 math channels to do it
2019-07-16T17:45:07 < englishman> and there are only 4
2019-07-16T17:45:11 < englishman> wtf Keysight
2019-07-16T17:45:14 < englishman> get with the program
2019-07-16T17:45:34 < aandrew> basker: yes, a little bit
2019-07-16T17:45:47 < aandrew> not enough to a) get a strike from the electric company or b) worth spending money trying to fix
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2019-07-16T17:58:30 < salcedo> you're not paying us enough money. you need to spend money to fix the problem so you can pay us more money.
2019-07-16T17:58:40 < salcedo> support your local power grid
2019-07-16T17:59:17 < salcedo> for just $1 a minute, you can sponsor a starving utility company employee.
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2019-07-16T18:40:32 < karlp> depends on jurisdiction honestly,
2019-07-16T18:40:50 < karlp> there are jurisdictions, (portugal, spain, south africa) where you get penalty rates for low power factor.
2019-07-16T18:41:24 < karlp> portugal utility bill we got had a three step scale starting at beloe 0.9, below 0.85 and below .8 iirc.
2019-07-16T18:42:35 < aandrew> karlp: penalties for low power factor usually don't start until your power factor is fairly shit
2019-07-16T18:42:45 < aandrew> I'd be very surprise dto find a house with a power factor below .85
2019-07-16T18:42:58 < aandrew> that's some serious inductive load whcih just doesn't exist in residential settings
2019-07-16T18:43:34 < aandrew> In fact I bet most are better than 0.9 since all modern appliances with large motors are now brushless 
2019-07-16T18:44:18 < aandrew> I always thought it was kind of cool that many industrial users stash a sync motor on some compressor somewhere and run it leading to help correct their power
2019-07-16T18:50:42 < karlp> I was just saying that just because most jurisdictions don't charge for _any_ reactive power, doesn't mean it's not for all
2019-07-16T18:51:43 < karlp> we've got industrial clients that are regualrly at like 0.6 on individual loads, but they do correction at the site level
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2019-07-16T18:58:52 < aandrew> yep that's common; you oversize the wire in the building where i'ts gonna be shit but then you correct it so the hydro company doesn't ding you
2019-07-16T19:01:43  * karlp restarts the wifi.
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2019-07-16T19:31:28 < karlp> well, that was a longer adventure than expected...
2019-07-16T19:31:33 < karlp> powerfactor here is 0.72 right now
2019-07-16T19:32:03 < karlp> only running about 250W though, you often get alow pf at low loads
2019-07-16T19:32:50 < karlp> fridge has jsut kicked, so we're up to 0.82.
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2019-07-16T19:37:24 < specing> Not my fault that the ISP does not provide DC power
2019-07-16T19:39:39 < sync> aandrew: my PFs currently are .4/1/.825
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2019-07-16T19:52:46 < aandrew> sync: what are you doing that you've got a 0.4PF
2019-07-16T19:53:22 < sync> nothing, really
2019-07-16T19:53:28 < sync> just running my house
2019-07-16T19:57:13 < aandrew> with a 0.4 PF? 
2019-07-16T19:57:27 < aandrew> something isn't right
2019-07-16T19:58:38 < sync> well, at like 100mA or something on that phase
2019-07-16T19:59:02 < sync> might be that my metering solution has some issues there, I have a 400/5A CT on there because of reasons
2019-07-16T19:59:30 < aandrew> yeah you might be down in the mud on that one
2019-07-16T19:59:36 < aandrew> CTs have a limited linear region
2019-07-16T19:59:56 < aandrew> I remember we used weird-ass turns ratios 
2019-07-16T20:00:04 < aandrew> 288:1, 2640:1 and 5760:1 I think
2019-07-16T20:00:25 < aandrew> they were actually :0.2 but we sold them as :1 to keep things simple
2019-07-16T20:00:56 < sync> they are the cheapest we could source, but they are suprisingly good from what I can see
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2019-07-16T20:10:06 < sync> and I still need to do the phase calibration
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2019-07-16T22:10:05 < Cracki> teaching terminator to walk like a human https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kie4wjB1MCw
2019-07-16T22:15:10 < Steffanx> State of the art machine learning.
2019-07-16T22:15:22 < salcedo> yassss
2019-07-16T22:15:50 < Steffanx> Hows your mantra salcedo?
2019-07-16T22:16:25 < salcedo> i have pcbs for the atmega1284 version of it sitting here without any BOM ordered because i am in the process of building a reflow oven :)
2019-07-16T22:16:31 < salcedo> https://postimg.cc/4Yb3YCDw
2019-07-16T22:16:41 < salcedo> here are my shitty controllers i designed/built
2019-07-16T22:16:49 < Steffanx> Do you play this while you're working on it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwHqV-gLIpk
2019-07-16T22:17:16 < salcedo> nope
2019-07-16T22:17:34 < Steffanx> Im disappointed.
2019-07-16T22:18:08 < Steffanx> Those are china clone SSRs right?
2019-07-16T22:20:01 < salcedo> yep
2019-07-16T22:20:37 < salcedo> with the obviously terrible counterfeit logos and everything
2019-07-16T22:21:12 < salcedo> https://salcedo.tech/evilcorp.mp3
2019-07-16T22:21:21 < salcedo> usually listen to stuff like this
2019-07-16T22:21:54 < Steffanx> That doesn't help me not have negative thoughts.
2019-07-16T22:22:00 < Steffanx> *to not have
2019-07-16T22:22:13 < salcedo> your brain is wired differently then
2019-07-16T22:22:22 < Steffanx> I hope so.
2019-07-16T22:22:22 < salcedo> i need this shit to focus
2019-07-16T22:22:39 < Steffanx> Damn. How.
2019-07-16T22:23:09 < salcedo> it's like a clock signal that keeps me from deviating
2019-07-16T22:26:35 < salcedo> got FHSS working on this lora module. it uses a seperate DIO pin to send interrupt. really weird.
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2019-07-16T22:38:26 < salcedo> Steffanx: i grew up attending parties like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGbIIOJ5Dec
2019-07-16T22:38:29 < salcedo> so the dnb stuff is relaxing
2019-07-16T22:41:14 < salcedo> every year or so, subject yourself to sleep deprivation + drugs + this kind of sensory bombardment until your brain shuts your body off.
2019-07-16T22:41:57 < salcedo> when you wake up a few days later, you will be fully defragged.
2019-07-16T22:43:27 < salcedo> vacation works for most people. i need to "reset"
2019-07-16T22:44:08 < salcedo> one such reset is coming. probably within the next 6 months.
2019-07-16T22:50:01 < kakimir> when finnish people talk about "reset" they mean getting so drunk they don't remember anything afterwards
2019-07-16T22:51:20 < MrMobius> sounds healthy
2019-07-16T22:57:20 < kakimir> movie recommd now
2019-07-16T22:57:59 < Steffanx> Shazam!
2019-07-16T22:58:26 < salcedo> what kind of movie
2019-07-16T22:58:43 < Steffanx> doesn't matter. Whatever you recommend. He wont watch it.
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2019-07-16T22:59:44 < kakimir> salcedo: try
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2019-07-16T22:59:57 < Steffanx> I tried and he completely ignored it. ;)
2019-07-16T23:00:22 < MrMobius> there is a German movie called The 7th Continent you might like
2019-07-16T23:00:39 < salcedo> kakimir: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5093026/
2019-07-16T23:00:53 < salcedo> this was on bezoslord prime the other day. was pretty good.
2019-07-16T23:01:03 < MrMobius> its about 45 minutes showing how worthless and boring their life is then 30 minutes of them smashing all their shit and killing themselves
2019-07-16T23:03:36 < kakimir> hey that's the movie I watched from between seat backrests of row in front of me in airplane
2019-07-16T23:04:45 < kakimir> it was boring
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2019-07-16T23:05:22 < Steffanx> Have any recommendation we can use as recommendation for you kakimir?
2019-07-16T23:07:24 < kakimir> movies you didn't like Steffanx
2019-07-16T23:07:45 < kakimir> also low ratings in imdb
2019-07-16T23:08:46 < Steffanx> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4530422/ not a low rating, but i didnt really enjoy it.
2019-07-16T23:09:54 < jadew> zombie strippers!
2019-07-16T23:10:26 < Steffanx> or perhaps https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4123430/
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2019-07-16T23:10:47 < kakimir> I think you recommended overlord once but I got distracted
2019-07-16T23:11:00 < kakimir> would probs watch
2019-07-16T23:11:38 < Steffanx> not sure i recommended it
2019-07-16T23:11:49 < kakimir> at least I have seen the trailer
2019-07-16T23:11:50 < Steffanx> i could have mentioned it as a thing you could watch
2019-07-16T23:12:03 < kakimir> yes indeed
2019-07-16T23:12:20 < jadew> zombieland
2019-07-16T23:12:23 < jadew> seen it?
2019-07-16T23:12:27 < kakimir> there is difference between recommending and just throwing movies at kaki
2019-07-16T23:12:59 < jadew> the 2009
2019-07-16T23:13:05 < jadew> the 2009 one
2019-07-16T23:13:08 < jadew> haven't seen the new one
2019-07-16T23:13:29 < Steffanx> You only watched that because you like Emma Stone and Amber Heard :P
2019-07-16T23:14:00 < Steffanx> And Jesse ofcourse.
2019-07-16T23:14:37 < kakimir> yes
2019-07-16T23:15:07 < kakimir> I have not seen latest iron sky btw. I got that vibe from overlord
2019-07-16T23:15:16 < kakimir> ratings say it was totally shit
2019-07-16T23:15:17 < Steffanx> yeah
2019-07-16T23:16:29 < jadew> kakimir, you want movies I didn't like?
2019-07-16T23:16:37 < kakimir> no
2019-07-16T23:16:47 < kakimir> I want movies you liked most likelly
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2019-07-16T23:17:55 < kakimir> I think I go with zombieland
2019-07-16T23:18:33 < jadew> horns
2019-07-16T23:20:02 < jadew> frequency
2019-07-16T23:21:08 < jadew> and I think I recommended this before: Childhood's end (it's a mini-series)
2019-07-16T23:21:59 < kakimir> jadew: I think I have seen both
2019-07-16T23:22:35 < kakimir> I think I have seen them all
2019-07-16T23:23:21 < Steffanx> Horns was weird.
2019-07-16T23:23:28 < Steffanx> but that other movie was weirder. let me look for it.
2019-07-16T23:23:31 < Steffanx> if you wanna go weird
2019-07-16T23:23:54 < Steffanx> Swiss Army Man it was
2019-07-16T23:24:01 < jadew> oh, right
2019-07-16T23:24:25 < Steffanx> Go with Swiss Army Man, kakimir
2019-07-16T23:24:26 < jadew> that one was different for sure
2019-07-16T23:25:15 < kakimir> Im watching jesse already
2019-07-16T23:26:13 < Steffanx> ok, enjoy.
2019-07-16T23:27:21 < jadew> I want a movie too
2019-07-16T23:32:38 < kakimir> oh sorry jadew
2019-07-16T23:32:47 < kakimir> a sec
2019-07-16T23:33:22 < jadew> ah, no worries, I wasn't complaining
2019-07-16T23:33:27 < jadew> keep watching your movie :)
2019-07-16T23:33:29 < kakimir> how rude of me
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2019-07-16T23:39:35 < kakimir> a list of latest youtube movies receipts: Sicario 2: Soldado, Alien Resurrection, A Star is Born, Event Horizon, Pandorum, BlacKkKlansman, Venom, Office Space, Shot Caller, War Dogs...
2019-07-16T23:40:02 < kakimir> War Dogs was nice but I think you may have recommended it
2019-07-16T23:41:00 < kakimir> Sicario 2 was nice but they left it hanging
2019-07-16T23:41:15 < kakimir> for 3rd movie for sure
2019-07-16T23:41:40 < englishman> war dogs was funny
2019-07-16T23:41:57 < englishman> how about pain & gain
2019-07-16T23:42:05 < kakimir> indeed it was like wolf of wallstreet but funny
2019-07-16T23:42:37 < jadew> there are a couple there that I haven't seen
2019-07-16T23:42:38 < jadew> thanks
2019-07-16T23:43:17 < kakimir> Pain & Gain? the gym movie?
2019-07-16T23:44:43 < englishman> kinda
2019-07-16T23:45:01 < englishman> more of a crime movie
2019-07-16T23:45:08 < englishman> with gym rats
2019-07-16T23:45:33 < kakimir> they needed money for gym so they did crime?
2019-07-16T23:45:41 < kakimir> oh that one
2019-07-16T23:45:51 < kakimir> that was good
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2019-07-16T23:52:15 < salcedo> is it just me or do people do give ted talks always have "the ted talk voice"
2019-07-16T23:52:24 < salcedo> kind of like how news anchors have the "news anchor voice"
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2019-07-16T23:55:45 < kakimir> yes
2019-07-16T23:55:56 < kakimir> important intellectual person voice
2019-07-16T23:56:23 < kakimir> also talks are structured
2019-07-16T23:56:34 < kakimir> like all of them are the same
2019-07-16T23:56:41 < kakimir> structure, voice etc.
2019-07-16T23:56:46 < kakimir> even geistures
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2019-07-16T23:57:26 < kakimir> oh shit wimp.com is still up
2019-07-16T23:58:02 < Steffanx> Hallo jly 
2019-07-16T23:58:20 < englishman> they all blend together, have the same time, pacing and fast moving subject matter
2019-07-16T23:59:03 < kakimir> pacing is similar than in stand up comedy
2019-07-16T23:59:15 < kakimir> disturbs my brain
2019-07-16T23:59:28 < englishman> ted talks are comedy without the humour
--- Day changed Wed Jul 17 2019
2019-07-17T00:00:54 < Steffanx> Like dr blaxter?
2019-07-17T00:01:27 < kakimir> :O  daamn
2019-07-17T00:03:32 < karlp> sync: yar, unless you got a suuuuuuupppper fancy 5A ct, a 400/5 is going to be pretty worthless at 100mA, and we see "bad pf at low loads" all the time
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2019-07-17T00:18:58 < kakimir> karlp: current transformers?
2019-07-17T00:27:39 < karlp> yeah
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2019-07-17T00:39:56 < mrec> hmm how do you upload the firmware to an stm32 controller, using st-link?
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2019-07-17T00:40:18 < mrec> st-link seems to be not very reliable with stm32f0
2019-07-17T00:40:22 < mrec> st-flash*
2019-07-17T00:41:18 < mrec> I'm using the swd interface with it
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2019-07-17T00:42:27 < karlp> of course you are, f0s only have swd.
2019-07-17T00:42:36 < karlp> define "not very reliable"
2019-07-17T00:42:50 < karlp> do you a) have an actual stlink, or a china special? b) how is it connected c) how is it powered
2019-07-17T00:43:21 < zyp> d) by «st-flash» do you mean the texane thing?
2019-07-17T00:43:24 < mrec> I'm using the nucleo board
2019-07-17T00:43:30 < mrec> yes the texane thing
2019-07-17T00:43:45 < mrec> unreliable, eg. you cannot flash multiple times
2019-07-17T00:43:47 < zyp> that's pretty old, you might want to try openocd instead
2019-07-17T00:43:49 < karlp> many people use texane/stlink/stflash, others use openocd, others use st's own combined flasher tool they just released.
2019-07-17T00:43:54 < mrec> and after some time it stops to work at all
2019-07-17T00:44:03 < karlp> zyp:it still gets lots of commits, but I wouldn't expect it to be a bastion of reliability
2019-07-17T00:44:03 < mrec> only replugging the nucleo board will fix it
2019-07-17T00:44:13 < zyp> karlp, exactly
2019-07-17T00:44:58 < mrec> I'm binary patching the firmware for modifying the serial afterwards I'll upload it. 
2019-07-17T00:45:34 < mrec> does stmicro have a linux commandline tool for flashing?
2019-07-17T00:46:22 < mrec> I'm checking openocd ... maybe it's what I'm looking for
2019-07-17T00:47:00 < karlp> they have a multiplatform flashing tool yes.
2019-07-17T00:58:44 < sync> karlp: yes, it works pretty well tho
2019-07-17T00:59:05 < sync> comparing the measured values with my clamp meter and I can see no major differences
2019-07-17T00:59:32 < karlp> oru claamp meters are both pretty shit at low loads as well, but some people hahve nicer toys than us :)
2019-07-17T00:59:44 < karlp> who makes the CT?
2019-07-17T01:00:17 < karlp> fucking hate 5A cts though. so big and clunky.
2019-07-17T01:00:26 < karlp> and always demanding saftey details
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2019-07-17T01:07:58 < sync> some indian company, the cheapest we could order a load from
2019-07-17T01:08:07 < sync> needed 100 CTs like now
2019-07-17T01:08:41 < kakimir> what are you doings sync?
2019-07-17T01:08:46 < kakimir> I mean 100 CTs
2019-07-17T01:08:55 < sync> measuring 25 generators
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2019-07-17T01:10:07 < sync> yeah karlp, I still need to look at it with my scope probe, but in theory with low load calibration it should work ok with two orders of magnitude
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2019-07-17T01:11:25 < karlp> yah, we tried doing some characterization for the low end, kinda mixed results.
2019-07-17T01:11:36 < kakimir> 25 for spare sync?
2019-07-17T01:11:46 < karlp> even spoke to the ct guy, "I don't care if it's no linear, as long as you can tell me what the curve _is_"
2019-07-17T01:12:41 < karlp> we've been happy with these ones for "bigger" sizes, http://www.zntar.com/
2019-07-17T01:13:16 < karlp> these guys ar echeaper, but quite a bit shitter phase response http://www.split-core-ct.com/
2019-07-17T01:13:33 < kakimir> sync: is it prototyping or production?
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2019-07-17T01:17:45 < mrec> openocd sucks think I better stay with the bugged version
2019-07-17T01:17:59 < mrec> crazy documentation.. 
2019-07-17T01:18:48  * karlp thinks there's a new person I need to ignore for my own mental health
2019-07-17T01:19:25 < mrec> well just look for how to flash an stm32f0 in the documentation you probably won't find anything
2019-07-17T01:19:40 < mrec> and with google thousands of commands which just fail or do nothing
2019-07-17T01:20:08 < karlp> as aalways, you're really good at completely failing to share anything that actually doesn't work, jsut abstract moaning.
2019-07-17T01:21:08 < mrec> there's no documentation how to flash the stm32f0 part.
2019-07-17T01:21:15 < mawk> get the repo version mrec 
2019-07-17T01:21:24 < mawk> if you had the distro package for now
2019-07-17T01:22:03 < mrec> that won't help much I still don't get how to use it properly
2019-07-17T01:22:03 < mrec> http://openocd.org/doc/html/Flash-Commands.html
2019-07-17T01:22:30 < mrec> at least at the end of it they could write examples, eg a full command set
2019-07-17T01:22:46 < mawk> there's a program command if you don't like to read docs
2019-07-17T01:22:50 < mawk> just use that one
2019-07-17T01:23:07 < mawk> http://openocd.org/doc/html/Flash-Commands.html#program
2019-07-17T01:25:03 < mrec> well not working, or not supporting the nucleo st-link adapter
2019-07-17T01:25:15 < mawk> nonsense
2019-07-17T01:25:22 < mawk> how are you launching openocd exactly ?
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2019-07-17T01:26:15 < mrec> https://pastebin.com/ySE4cZBH
2019-07-17T01:26:19 < sync> kakimir: I measure N as well
2019-07-17T01:26:34 < kakimir> for what purpose?
2019-07-17T01:26:37 < sync> why not
2019-07-17T01:27:07 < kakimir> I see only thing it's useful for to add reduntancy
2019-07-17T01:27:19 < sync> karlp: I wonder how I should go about doing the phase calibration
2019-07-17T01:27:21 < mawk> ok not like this mrec 
2019-07-17T01:27:25 < mawk> mrec: openocd -f interface/stlink.cfg -f target/stm32f0x.cfg
2019-07-17T01:27:30 < mawk> this will launch an openocd daemon
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2019-07-17T01:27:37 < mawk> then you can talk to it via a telnet shell
2019-07-17T01:27:40 < mawk> and do the program command there
2019-07-17T01:27:58 < mawk> just mind the current working directory inside the shell will be the one where you started the daemon
2019-07-17T01:28:30 < kakimir> if you want to see ground leak you put all 4 wires thru one CT that is more sensitive
2019-07-17T01:29:00 < kakimir> when sum is 0 it detects nothing
2019-07-17T01:30:40 < sync> karlp: interesting, I would have thought that they were all pretty equal now
2019-07-17T01:31:03 < sync> the ones we got have individual cal sheets with them and from what I can see they match up ok
2019-07-17T01:31:39 < karlp> individual calibration?!
2019-07-17T01:31:42 < karlp> hahah
2019-07-17T01:31:42 < kakimir> you can definitelly see larger ground leaks with that setup
2019-07-17T01:31:51 < karlp> wow, you must hav epaid more than we did :)
2019-07-17T01:32:00 < karlp> they are all ~perfectly fine for current.
2019-07-17T01:32:23 < karlp> we just had way more phase offset with the jiangyin spark ones, more than our devices could calibrate internally.
2019-07-17T01:32:57 < mawk> maybe this is a silly question but what's wrong with the other methods of measuring current ?
2019-07-17T01:33:05 < mawk> like hall sensors
2019-07-17T01:33:28 < karlp> positioning them sucks arse.
2019-07-17T01:33:44 < mawk> I see
2019-07-17T01:33:49 < karlp> cts are great, clip and go, done.
2019-07-17T01:33:54 < mawk> so this is worse than having a phase offset
2019-07-17T01:34:07 < karlp> well, you buy from a place that doens't have a phase offset.
2019-07-17T01:34:21 < karlp> and the phase offset only matters if you'r etrying to do accurate active/reactive power
2019-07-17T01:34:43 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-17T01:37:08 < karlp> cts are also dead simple. 
2019-07-17T01:37:11 < karlp> have current, get current.
2019-07-17T01:37:32 < karlp> no driving, no amplifiction, no filtering, just transformer. done
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2019-07-17T01:39:39 < karlp> (most importantly, we'r emeasuring AC, so no need for hall stuff)
2019-07-17T01:40:13 < sync> karlp: well, we bought from some germoney retailer, so obvs
2019-07-17T01:40:19 < sync> but still only around 10€/ea
2019-07-17T01:40:58 < mawk> I killed mrec with all my powerful openocd knowledge
2019-07-17T01:47:17 < mrec> indeed things were not working 1:1 but it helped thanks!
2019-07-17T01:47:28 < mrec> still figuring out how to do everything in one shot
2019-07-17T01:49:17 < mawk> mrec: openocd -f interface/stlink.cfg -f target/stm32f0x.cfg -c 'program stuff'
2019-07-17T01:49:19 < mawk> like this
2019-07-17T01:49:27 < mawk> maybe have to add ;exit after
2019-07-17T01:49:37 < mawk> to make it stop; but honestly keeping the daemon running is better
2019-07-17T01:49:40 < mawk> less startup time
2019-07-17T01:49:46 < mawk> so you just script that telnet thing
2019-07-17T01:50:56 < mawk> it can be simple, like cat 9<>/dev/tcp/127.0.0.1/4444; cat >&9 <<< "program stuff; exit"; exec 9>&-
2019-07-17T01:51:00 < mawk> in plain bash
2019-07-17T01:51:54 < karlp> (there's a exit arg to program to optionall exit too)
2019-07-17T01:52:12 < mawk> ah nice
2019-07-17T01:53:05 < karlp> https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-template/blob/master/rules.mk#L157 has the trick of start a new oocd or connect to aan existing one and do the reflash
2019-07-17T01:54:36 < mawk> in my example bash it's exec 9<>... not cat 9<>... if you ever want to try mrec , but the above makefile seems nicer
2019-07-17T01:55:36 < karlp> yeah, I love the ideas of using the higher files, but... it's magical shit that no-one can understand :)
2019-07-17T01:56:00 < karlp> (also, not everyone has /dev/tcp....
2019-07-17T01:56:51 < mawk> yeah I may have made a typo
2019-07-17T01:56:56 < mawk> it's a bash only thing, you can't find it with ls
2019-07-17T01:57:05 < mawk> it's bash magic for accessing the network; netcat is fine too
2019-07-17T01:58:04 < karlp> yeah, I do too much in a ash world, bashisms I have learned to avoid like the plague
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2019-07-17T02:00:28 < mrec> mawk: not working that easy but thanks! I'll put together a script which will do that
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2019-07-17T02:07:24 < mrec> ok everything works fine thanks for the openocd hint, even though getting started was a bit tricky
2019-07-17T02:15:35 < mrec> mawk: do you know is there a way to wait for a target to be connected?
2019-07-17T02:15:53 < mawk> I don't know
2019-07-17T02:16:01 < mawk> I know openocd won't start if no target is there
2019-07-17T02:16:11 < mawk> but I know openocd will loop waiting for target if you disconnect it after launching the daemon
2019-07-17T02:16:16 < mawk> so just do that, keep the daemon running
2019-07-17T02:18:47 < karlp> I've resumed a laptop with oocd running and reconnected the target hardware and it's reconnected ok.
2019-07-17T02:18:56 < karlp> I think it peaks at a 6.3 second retry loop
2019-07-17T02:19:04 < karlp> (don't ask my how that number came to be)
2019-07-17T02:20:33 < mrec> I want to automatically upload the firmware without issuing a command, that would be nice
2019-07-17T02:22:20 < mawk> that's relatively easy to do
2019-07-17T02:22:26 < mawk> with inotify you can watch files for change and take action
2019-07-17T02:22:32 < mawk> you can do it from pure bash I think
2019-07-17T02:22:41 < mrec> the mcu is behind the stlink
2019-07-17T02:22:45 < mawk> even without inotify a dumb loop like looking at checksum every 5 seconds
2019-07-17T02:22:55 < mawk> yeah that's normal
2019-07-17T02:23:06 < mrec> I guess there's an option to get some part info via openocd
2019-07-17T02:26:15 < mawk> ah you mean when you connect the mcu ?
2019-07-17T02:26:32 < mawk> that seems hard to do other than just looping every 5 seconds to try out
2019-07-17T02:26:34 < mrec> ok got it it's easy
2019-07-17T02:26:47 < mrec> just loop and grep the info
2019-07-17T02:26:57 < mrec> I want the connection to settle down for a few seconds anyway
2019-07-17T02:32:07 < mrec> yes that works fine
2019-07-17T02:32:10 < mrec> great
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2019-07-17T02:47:35 < salcedo> word. FHSSChangeChannel interrupt works
2019-07-17T02:47:59 < salcedo> it's so sneaky now
2019-07-17T02:48:07 < salcedo> like the waterfall shows NOTHING
2019-07-17T02:48:10 < salcedo> but the signal is there
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2019-07-17T03:10:04 < karlp> anyone hav ea china shipping consolidator they're happy with? just general retail7consumer stuff.
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2019-07-17T08:16:43 < jadew> karlp, if you find one, please let me know
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2019-07-17T09:01:38 < jadew> kakimir, wasn't me who recommended war dogs, but I like it, thanks
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2019-07-17T09:49:20 < kakimir> what a weird dream again
2019-07-17T09:50:28 < kakimir> I saw shooting star and then another and then dozen of them at once
2019-07-17T09:51:31 < kakimir> one fell in front of me and it was actually ICBM
2019-07-17T09:52:13 -!- sterna [~Adium@c-18b8d954.016-35-62726f1.bbcust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2019-07-17T09:52:47 < kakimir> I hid behind a concrete wall when it exploded
2019-07-17T10:00:29 < kakimir> then it was just black dark clouds and I surely took a whiff to smell all the weird odours in air
2019-07-17T10:10:49 -!- drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-17T10:14:08 < Steffanx> Mushrooms?
2019-07-17T10:14:55 -!- sterna [~Adium@h-90-120.A137.corp.bahnhof.se] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-17T10:15:55 < kakimir> no
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2019-07-17T10:33:07 < R2COM> its late but i feel more like wine and gaming rather than sleep
2019-07-17T10:35:05 < R2COM> jebus this elder scrolls online sucks money from me
2019-07-17T10:35:35 < R2COM> hey this VisualGDB is amazing
2019-07-17T10:35:51 < R2COM> i feel that it is the first toolchain for stm32 which actually works
2019-07-17T10:36:07 < R2COM> debugging is just a pleasure
2019-07-17T10:36:10 < R2COM> UI
2019-07-17T10:36:19 < R2COM> linked VIM with its editor, works amazing
2019-07-17T10:36:29 < R2COM> all that joy for $200
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2019-07-17T10:45:08 < kakimir> basically a nuke delivery package
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2019-07-17T10:52:40 < kakimir> in dream world you cannot irc anything sane it's just gibberish
2019-07-17T10:54:09 < Steffanx> Is not gibberish now?
2019-07-17T10:56:18 < jly> sounds all fucked up
2019-07-17T11:02:07 -!- drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-07-17T11:14:47 < kakimir> Steffanx: exactly
2019-07-17T11:15:20 < kakimir> time to give some coffee for my kidneys>
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2019-07-17T11:42:42 < R2COM> jly sup bruh
2019-07-17T11:42:52 < R2COM> did you get laid recently?
2019-07-17T11:43:43 < R2COM> uh its really late
2019-07-17T11:43:49 < R2COM> need to rest
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2019-07-17T11:46:54 < jly> hi r2
2019-07-17T11:47:06 < jadew> I ordered the wrong cables like 4th time in a row...
2019-07-17T11:47:17 < jly> can i see
2019-07-17T11:47:37 < jadew> first 3 times I didn't realize the length was wrong, so I kept ordering because they weren't arriving
2019-07-17T11:47:54 < jly> heat it up and stretch it
2019-07-17T11:47:57 < jadew> then when the first one arrived and I figured it out, I ordered the correct length but wrong connector lol
2019-07-17T11:48:24 < jadew> must have wasted close to $100 on this adventure
2019-07-17T11:48:33 < jadew> jly, good idea
2019-07-17T11:48:48 < jly> do you like anime?
2019-07-17T11:49:00 < jadew> if the boobs are large enough
2019-07-17T11:49:25 < jadew> if it's just action shit... not so much
2019-07-17T11:49:42 < jadew> I used to, but not anymore
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2019-07-17T12:23:48 < jadew> I can work with that
2019-07-17T12:49:00 < Cracki> tail pulling is just like pigtail pulling :3
2019-07-17T12:58:47 < benishor> hey guys
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2019-07-17T13:00:37 < benishor> can anyone help me out with a filtering problem I'm having? context: I'm trying to do some very basic FIR filtering on STM32F746 discovery board. I used mbed to ease the setup (I know, I know) and cmsis dsp lib for fir 
2019-07-17T13:00:46 < benishor> main: https://pastebin.com/kSQGpk0j
2019-07-17T13:01:13 < benishor> the program does nothing more than generate a sine wave, filter it with a FIR filter and slap it on the output
2019-07-17T13:01:37 < benishor> the problem is as follows: when the oscillator frequency is below the filter's cutoff frequency, things work as expected
2019-07-17T13:02:10 < benishor> once it gets to the cutoff, the audio output gets attenuated (as it should) but also distorted
2019-07-17T13:02:43 < benishor> I designed the filter in matlab and quantized coefficients to single precision so I can use them with float32_t
2019-07-17T13:03:01 < benishor> does anybody have a clue of what am I doing wrong?
2019-07-17T13:03:34 < benishor> if anyone cares to test the binaries to see what I mean, here they are: http://hq.scene.ro/filtering-1000Hz.bin and http://hq.scene.ro/filtering-1200Hz.bin
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2019-07-17T13:18:15 < jadew> best type of clerk to deal with: incompetent and inapologetic
2019-07-17T13:19:17 < jadew> I showed him which bags to give me, he sold me different ones
2019-07-17T13:20:40 < benishor> Haohmaru: I didn't get the chance to put a scope on the output to have a better definition. it just sounds distorted, far from the sine wave I was expecting
2019-07-17T13:22:24 < benishor> I don't think it's bessel, I went for "equiripple" fir design method in matlab
2019-07-17T13:22:51 < benishor> you might have a point there, I should give "maximally flat" method a chance
2019-07-17T13:23:14 < benishor> that would make sense, thank you Haohmaru
2019-07-17T13:23:36 < benishor> I'm especially using cmsis dsp lib for this
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2019-07-17T13:23:47 < benishor> there's no need for clipping :)
2019-07-17T13:24:03 < benishor> I generate samples with a sin() and scale the sample to [-0.8, 0.8]
2019-07-17T13:24:20 < benishor> and the filter gain was supposed to be 1
2019-07-17T13:25:05 < benishor> yes, I am acquinted with the term, although I was not expecting the filter to be resonant
2019-07-17T13:25:22 < benishor> ok, let me try clipping the output first
2019-07-17T13:25:29 < benishor> before int conversion
2019-07-17T13:25:51 < benishor> [13:02] <benishor> I designed the filter in matlab and quantized coefficients to single precision so I can use them with float32_t
2019-07-17T13:25:52 < benishor> [
2019-07-17T13:26:15 < jadew> I have no experience with FIR filters, but is there any chance that they have a repetitive nature, like real ones?
2019-07-17T13:27:07 < benishor> Haohmaru: so what would you do?
2019-07-17T13:27:19 < jadew> also, without looking at the output, it's difficult to imagine what could go wrong, the distortion you're hering could be due to both lower and higher tones
2019-07-17T13:27:39 < jadew> and either issue indicates different problems
2019-07-17T13:27:59 < benishor> right
2019-07-17T13:28:00 < mawk> you tried your filter on your computer first benishor ?
2019-07-17T13:28:03 < benishor> I'll try and capture the output
2019-07-17T13:28:20 < benishor> mawk: no. granted, I should have done that
2019-07-17T13:28:40 < mawk> it's pretty easy to generate with audacity, process, then view the output with audacity again
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2019-07-17T13:54:48 < benishor> ping pong buffers
2019-07-17T13:55:04 < benishor> for communicating with the on-board codec through dma
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2019-07-17T15:14:38 < aandrew> clear
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2019-07-17T17:06:07 < bitmask> hello
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2019-07-17T18:06:35 < mawk> I have crickets
2019-07-17T18:06:37 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2019-07-17T18:06:39 < mawk> one is currently singing
2019-07-17T18:06:44 < mawk> I feed them to feed my pet spider
2019-07-17T18:07:24 < Mangy_Dog> oh thought you meant you have crickets come into the area and you caught them
2019-07-17T18:07:30 < Mangy_Dog> rather than shopped ones for feeding pes
2019-07-17T18:07:31 < Mangy_Dog> ts
2019-07-17T18:10:55 < bitmask> so ESR determines max pulse current for a super cap right?
2019-07-17T18:11:00 < bitmask> how do you calculate that?
2019-07-17T18:13:37 < qyx> I = U/R maybe?
2019-07-17T18:14:24 < mawk> exactly as the name implies bitmask 
2019-07-17T18:14:39 < mawk> as if your non-ideal capacitor with x ESR was an ideal capacitor in series with a resistance x
2019-07-17T18:14:53 < mawk> you also have parasitic inductance to take into account tho
2019-07-17T18:15:00 < bitmask> ohhh I see
2019-07-17T18:16:30 < bitmask> so at 2.7V with an ESR of 2.2 mOhm you get 2.7 / .0022 = 1227 A?
2019-07-17T18:17:39 < zyp> bitmask, what's the application?
2019-07-17T18:17:57 < bitmask> spot welder, just trying to compare supercap to transformer
2019-07-17T18:18:39 < zyp> uh, are supercaps fast enough for that?
2019-07-17T18:19:21 < mawk> is 2.7V enough to make an arc ?
2019-07-17T18:19:27 < mawk> I remember some kind of minimal breakdown voltage or something
2019-07-17T18:19:28 < mawk> around a volt
2019-07-17T18:19:42 < zyp> you don't need arcs
2019-07-17T18:19:45 < bitmask> I think 2.7 is fine
2019-07-17T18:19:52 < bitmask> I can always connect two in series
2019-07-17T18:20:17 < zyp> but really, aren't normal caps better?
2019-07-17T18:20:24 < bitmask> why?
2019-07-17T18:34:19 < mawk> it doesn't hold its maximum current for very long
2019-07-17T18:37:10 < mawk> if the capacity is 1F then in 1.5ms you halve the current
2019-07-17T18:37:20 < mawk> 1.5ms seems pretty long actually, sounds like working
2019-07-17T18:37:24 < mawk> if your cap is really 1F
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2019-07-17T19:01:47 < zyp> bitmask, I just figure that supercaps are trading off speed for energy density, and for spot welding you want speed
2019-07-17T19:03:21 < bitmask> hmm, i'll have to look into it but it seems people generally use super caps for em and it seems fine
2019-07-17T19:03:35 < zyp> could be, I'm not an expert on supercaps
2019-07-17T19:04:00 < zyp> only supercaps I've actually used are small ones for RTC backup
2019-07-17T19:04:14 < zyp> and they are certainly useless for spot welding :)
2019-07-17T19:04:14 < bitmask> I'm looking at 400F supercaps
2019-07-17T19:05:04 < zyp> what do they cost?
2019-07-17T19:05:08 < bitmask> $15
2019-07-17T19:05:41 < jpa-> how big are they?
2019-07-17T19:05:44 < zyp> how many cycles will it withstand?
2019-07-17T19:06:03 < bitmask> 35mm diameter 70mm height
2019-07-17T19:06:17 < jpa-> i've seen some big caps for automotive audio called "supercaps" even though they are more like normal caps, just very big
2019-07-17T19:06:37 < jpa-> but check the ESR, that should give you the information you need
2019-07-17T19:07:11 < bitmask> says they are tested with 500k cycles, not sure what that means
2019-07-17T19:07:21 < bitmask> 2.2mOhm
2019-07-17T19:07:41 < bitmask> max is 3 for DC
2019-07-17T19:07:46 < jpa-> yep, probably different than the supercaps zyp is thinking about, RTC backup caps often have 1+ ohms
2019-07-17T19:08:18 < bitmask> it says peak current is 245A though
2019-07-17T19:08:38 < bitmask> maybe sustained?
2019-07-17T19:08:41 < jpa-> so don't exceed that if you want it to be healthy
2019-07-17T19:08:52 < zyp> have you considered just using a car battery?
2019-07-17T19:09:03 < bitmask> thats big and heavy
2019-07-17T19:09:09 < bitmask> and not as fun
2019-07-17T19:09:18 < jpa-> if you want fun, use lipo packs
2019-07-17T19:09:21 < bitmask> I think I may just dumpster dive for a microwave
2019-07-17T19:09:40 < bitmask> I do have a microwave transformer but it ended up being this weird high frequency one
2019-07-17T19:10:25 < zyp> what are you gonna use a spot welder for anyway?
2019-07-17T19:10:48 < bitmask> battery packs mostly
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2019-07-17T19:27:25 < englishman> lol @ supercaps being normal caps just bigger
2019-07-17T19:34:07 < salcedo> if you put 2 supernormal caps in parallel with your electrical mains, you'll get 30% savings on your electric bill.
2019-07-17T19:34:55 < salcedo> i saw it on one of those kickass never-get-demonetized-because-perfect-content-the-NPCs-agree-with youtube videos
2019-07-17T19:38:28 < englishman> zener diode solar panel
2019-07-17T19:40:34 < salcedo> Top 10 China Sweatshop-Made Gadgets That Harvest Solar Energy
2019-07-17T19:42:43 < salcedo> Be sure to hit the subscribe button and hit the bell icon for more great videos on the WePut"ly"AtTheEndOfEverynameUntilY-CombinatorGivesUsMoneyToDrinkKaleShakesFromVendingMachinesWhileWePretendToCodeOnOurMacbooksly Channel!
2019-07-17T19:44:20 < englishman> plz donate
2019-07-17T19:46:28 < salcedo> i hereby petition we rename this channel ##stm32ly, so that we can all get funding, quit our day jobs, and make cool stuff.
2019-07-17T19:47:03 < dongs> ##stm32.io
2019-07-17T19:47:18 < antto> bingo
2019-07-17T19:47:42 < antto> sounds very crapduiny/IoTy
2019-07-17T19:47:55 < salcedo> is there a .iot TLD yet?
2019-07-17T19:48:14 < salcedo> hrm nope. doesn't look it.
2019-07-17T19:48:16 < salcedo> but there will be
2019-07-17T19:49:51 < antto> ess-tea-duino thurdy too
2019-07-17T19:49:51 < englishman> securing a brighter future for our children through innovative legacy text chat protocols
2019-07-17T19:51:01 < salcedo> We're fixing climate change one IoT device at a time. Check us out at https://dongs.iot
2019-07-17T19:52:08 < englishman> that reminds me, almost time for new domain names
2019-07-17T19:52:25 < englishman> these retarded .pro are 99c the first year but $25 after
2019-07-17T19:52:26 < englishman> or something
2019-07-17T19:52:54 < salcedo> i tried to get a .dev but the google AI wasn't pleased with my level of data input.
2019-07-17T19:53:13 < salcedo> did manage to swipe up simulated.earth
2019-07-17T19:54:05 < salcedo> i'm camping it. waiting for some ultra-wealthy lucifarian transhumanist agenda 2030 mofos to buy it from me.
2019-07-17T19:54:23 < englishman> still a better business plan than juicero
2019-07-17T19:54:39 < salcedo> that's because the juicero isn't the juiceroLY
2019-07-17T19:54:51 < salcedo> you gotta have a .io and -ly if you want funding.
2019-07-17T19:56:37 < antto> sh*tduinoProly.io
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2019-07-17T20:28:58  * antto eyeballz kakimir
2019-07-17T20:29:34  * kakimir eyeballz antto harder
2019-07-17T20:29:45  * antto intensifies
2019-07-17T20:33:52  * kakimir activates battle gaze
2019-07-17T20:36:56  * antto deploys decoys
2019-07-17T20:39:49  * kakimir got distracted destroying decoys with lazer gaze
2019-07-17T20:40:21  * antto launches an EMP rocket
2019-07-17T20:41:50  * salcedo deploys chaff to no avail
2019-07-17T20:42:09  * kakimir has left the arena
2019-07-17T20:42:15  * salcedo starts playing BEEP BEEP IM A SHEEP. The rocket vaporizes instantly before causing any damage.
2019-07-17T20:42:27  * antto follows kakimir IRL
2019-07-17T20:42:33 < antto> >:)
2019-07-17T20:42:41  * salcedo declares victory after all other players have left the arena
2019-07-17T20:43:48  * jpa- installs STM32 I2Cv1 in salcedo's weapon control system
2019-07-17T20:44:20  * antto detects a cheater
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2019-07-17T21:18:01 < hpcadmin> I'm trying to do some task profiling by examining pxCurrentTCB, but that struct is declared in task.c and not a .h, so I can't extern it over
2019-07-17T21:18:48 < hpcadmin> Is there a better way to do this?
2019-07-17T21:36:10 < kakimir> new 007 is black
2019-07-17T21:36:25 < kakimir> hold it hold it...
2019-07-17T21:36:31 < kakimir> and a woman
2019-07-17T21:38:00 < jpa-> but, does she hook up with a helpless woman or with a helpless man?
2019-07-17T21:39:01 < kakimir> I bet both
2019-07-17T21:39:25 < kakimir> but she doesn't need a man for sure
2019-07-17T21:41:13 < kakimir> it's exacly what makes it interesting now.. how are males viewed and if the 007 is a lesbian
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2019-07-17T22:55:51 < kakimir> any thoughts about 007
2019-07-17T22:56:34 < Steffanx> the new female one you mean?
2019-07-17T22:56:49 < kakimir> yes
2019-07-17T22:57:01 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9sQZLtsfp8 kaki night musics
2019-07-17T22:57:45 < kakimir> 8)
2019-07-17T22:57:56 < Steffanx> Go away kakimir.
2019-07-17T22:58:22 < kakimir> actually catchy song but can't bare to watch the video in this occasion
2019-07-17T22:59:19 < Steffanx> Now thats how i imagine you with your friends in the sauna.
2019-07-17T22:59:26 < Steffanx> jpa- might enjoy too. 
2019-07-17T23:00:07 < kakimir> :O
2019-07-17T23:00:49 < kakimir> didn't realize it was achually a sauna
2019-07-17T23:01:38 < Steffanx> no more snus for kakimir
2019-07-17T23:02:55 < kakimir> good idea for sauna
2019-07-17T23:03:07 < kakimir> butt a bath tub in middle of seat rows
2019-07-17T23:06:47 < mawk> omg what is that video
2019-07-17T23:07:30 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2019-07-17T23:16:12 < kakimir> I'm quite amused imagining excited tone to that question
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2019-07-17T23:26:23 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbXmGgJePsk finnish comedy guy
2019-07-17T23:28:14 < englishman> fucking Keysight
2019-07-17T23:28:24 < englishman> $40k scope with funcgen
2019-07-17T23:28:34 < englishman> modulation and single shot are $extra
2019-07-17T23:28:36 < englishman> fuck
2019-07-17T23:28:37 < englishman> off
2019-07-17T23:29:12 < kakimir> what are your options?
2019-07-17T23:36:06 < kakimir> sounds arbitrary to have them seperate
2019-07-17T23:36:28 < kakimir> sales have some vision about it
2019-07-17T23:37:45 < kakimir> you have any movies in store englishman?
2019-07-17T23:38:26 < englishman> all movies in 2019 are superhero movies, and I don't like fucking comic book shit, so no I have nothing to suggest
2019-07-17T23:41:02 < kakimir> I liked them first but now as those series have spawn 20 movies in few years I can't get excited anymore
2019-07-17T23:43:35 < kakimir> if you like samuel jackson there is new movie
2019-07-17T23:43:40 < kakimir> Shaft
2019-07-17T23:49:58 -!- Drzacek [~Drzacek@2001:16b8:1c83:f00:5cc9:62d4:6235:7677] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-07-17T23:52:57 < Steffanx> Did you see Glass, oak?
2019-07-17T23:53:06 < Steffanx> kakimir:  *
2019-07-17T23:54:38 < kakimir> wow
2019-07-17T23:55:43 < kakimir> first time everything
2019-07-17T23:55:55 < kakimir> I think I'm going to watch steff recommd movie
--- Day changed Thu Jul 18 2019
2019-07-18T00:02:55 < Steffanx> I didn't recommend it. Just wondered if you'd seen it kakimir 
2019-07-18T00:07:11 < kakimir> nevermind technicalities
2019-07-18T00:07:34 < kakimir> if it works it works
2019-07-18T00:12:07 < bitmask> why did I choose the hottest day to go outside and cut some metal
2019-07-18T00:12:09 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/iytzv69.png
2019-07-18T00:12:13 < bitmask> thats enough for today
2019-07-18T00:13:38 < salcedo> be sure to believe everything social media is telling you about the heat wave
2019-07-18T00:14:10 < salcedo> your wet bulb temperature is 10 degrees below whatever the _advertised_ "heat" "index" is. but if you buy the following products, you won't die.
2019-07-18T00:14:58 < salcedo> USB 5V iPhone Portable Unit Fan - Great Mobile - With Blue Tooth 3.0 Light Energy
2019-07-18T00:16:04 < salcedo> WebMD.com Gift Card. Purchase Expert Diagnosis of Skin Cancer for Whole Family.
2019-07-18T00:16:27 < salcedo> Global Warming Facts Bathroom Story Time E-Book For Kindle
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2019-07-18T00:20:26 < Thorn> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33002638555.html y/n
2019-07-18T00:25:11 < Steffanx> Sure
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2019-07-18T00:31:44 < Thorn> ok
2019-07-18T00:32:02 < Thorn> same seller has si4463-c2a, the only one on aliexpress
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2019-07-18T00:41:58 < Thorn> https://apolloinrealtime.org/11/ P00 and accept
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2019-07-18T01:01:28 < kakimir> some animal is biting me
2019-07-18T01:01:35 < kakimir> *little animal
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2019-07-18T01:04:12 < kakimir> maybe
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2019-07-18T01:06:52 -!- kow__ [~iccy@135.0.26.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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2019-07-18T01:07:19 < kakimir> scabies most likelly
2019-07-18T01:12:30 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-18T01:13:00 < kakimir> thank god it's not bed bugs
2019-07-18T01:13:43 < kakimir> would have more difficulty sleeping
2019-07-18T01:14:28 < Thorn> I was going to order l053 and accidentally found that I already have them
2019-07-18T01:14:39 < Thorn> do I have a part hoarding problem y/n
2019-07-18T01:16:58 < englishman> y
2019-07-18T01:17:20 < englishman> I have like a pallet of useless SMT shit
2019-07-18T01:17:27 < englishman> so I also have this problem
2019-07-18T01:18:24 < Thorn> h750 errata: 40 pages long
2019-07-18T01:18:51 < Thorn> half of which is fixed in rev. V but the Chinese most likely have rev. Y
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2019-07-18T01:34:32 < jadew> bitmask, you got a water jet cutter?
2019-07-18T01:34:45 < bitmask> hah no
2019-07-18T01:34:58 < jadew> I'm joking :)
2019-07-18T01:35:15 < bitmask> I hoped
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2019-07-18T01:38:43 < jadew> wish I had one
2019-07-18T01:39:02 < jadew> do they make tiny ones?
2019-07-18T01:39:08 < jadew> probably not
2019-07-18T01:41:55 < bitmask> make an attachment for a 3d printer :P
2019-07-18T01:42:35 < jadew> I know there are laser ones too, but I bet you need a hefty laser to cut through metal
2019-07-18T01:42:48 < bitmask>  definitely
2019-07-18T01:43:20 < bitmask> dont you need like a CO2 laser or comparable to do anything other than etch metal?
2019-07-18T01:44:40 < bitmask> hmm a punch would be useful right now
2019-07-18T01:45:31 < bitmask> this project is going so smoothly im scared, everything fits perfectly first try, just printed the caliper holder
2019-07-18T01:46:12 < jadew> sane tollerances
2019-07-18T01:47:03 < bitmask> its also based on things I measured myself so I was expecting at least something to be off
2019-07-18T01:47:08 -!- ac_slater [~weechat@144.121.38.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-07-18T01:47:14 < bitmask> one more piece to go
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2019-07-18T01:48:04 < bitmask> I gotta go do some deliveries and make some money first, later
2019-07-18T01:48:16 < jadew> later
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2019-07-18T02:06:37 < Thorn> do I need special RF resistors for a 868 MHz matching network or will any 0402 do?
2019-07-18T02:11:05 < jadew> any will do
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2019-07-18T02:12:58 < Thorn> same with caps (np0)?
2019-07-18T02:13:20 < jadew> yeah
2019-07-18T02:13:45 < Thorn> ok thanks
2019-07-18T02:13:50 < jadew> np
2019-07-18T02:15:57 < jadew> I'm off to bed, night
2019-07-18T02:17:46 < Thorn> gn
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2019-07-18T03:26:50 < dongs> i thought low-pf caps are onmly available on C0G
2019-07-18T03:26:52 < dongs> but yea wahtever
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2019-07-18T04:00:52 < Thorn> same thing
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2019-07-18T05:25:14 < dongs> does f connector nut have some special name
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2019-07-18T05:55:47 < Thorn> how come h750 with crypto is available in China?
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2019-07-18T06:09:45 < englishman> why wouldn't it be?
2019-07-18T06:10:23 < Thorn> lcsc for example doesn't have any stm32 with crypto
2019-07-18T06:10:40 < englishman> dont use lcsc then
2019-07-18T06:10:47 < englishman> next problem
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2019-07-18T06:16:26 < salcedo> supposedly the crypto only gives an 8x increase in speed
2019-07-18T06:16:34 < salcedo> and since it's all china shit, what's the point?
2019-07-18T06:18:59 < salcedo> Thorn: i put fhss into my driver. works pretty good :)
2019-07-18T06:19:27 < salcedo> needs another interrupt
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2019-07-18T07:34:16 < bitmask> we've got to, find ways to abuse ourselves and our friends (our friends)
2019-07-18T07:34:34 < bitmask> squishy squishy squirt squirt
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2019-07-18T11:00:20 < jly> is it alright?
2019-07-18T11:01:31 < jly> awesomo power
2019-07-18T11:02:30 < jly> so what are you doing with a capacitor?
2019-07-18T11:16:04 < jly> sounds all fucked up!
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2019-07-18T12:29:22 < Steffanx> How fucked up are you jly  ?
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2019-07-18T13:48:41 < englishman> hmm
2019-07-18T13:48:53 < englishman> thermoelectric device with >1MHz bandwidth
2019-07-18T13:49:48 < englishman> when the junction metals are applied, it's done at an angle, so the emf only happens laterally
2019-07-18T13:49:57 < englishman> wonder how that works
2019-07-18T15:18:28 < jadew> speaking of china and available ICs
2019-07-18T15:19:19 < jadew> you know how when you buy some stuff from the USA, you have to sign that shit that you won't sell to specific countries?
2019-07-18T15:19:30 < jadew> I wonder what happens if you buy them from china
2019-07-18T15:19:38 < jadew> you get a free pass?
2019-07-18T15:29:48 < englishman> what pass? itar is a usa thing
2019-07-18T15:30:19 < jadew> yeah but are you bound by it even if you buy the chips from china?
2019-07-18T15:30:26 < jadew> and don't sign anything?
2019-07-18T15:31:20 < englishman> why would usa law apply in china
2019-07-18T15:32:43 < jadew> don't know... treaties?
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2019-07-18T15:55:08 < mawk> that's how usa law works englishman 
2019-07-18T15:55:18 < mawk> it's extra-territorial
2019-07-18T16:01:25 < aandrew> hahahahaha
2019-07-18T16:01:27 < aandrew> After taking the test, if you are qualified, you will get $15 USD and be hired on a project for up to 40 hours of work at $21 USD per hour! 
2019-07-18T16:01:32 < aandrew> HOLY FUCK WHERE DO I SIGN UP
2019-07-18T16:02:07 < mawk> lol
2019-07-18T16:07:04 < benishor> Haohmaru: so, I captured some time domain representation of my filtered signal
2019-07-18T16:08:46 < benishor> context: stm32f746, 16KHz samplerate, using the discovery onboard codec. I generate a simple sine wave and FIR filter it with a filter designed which should have 1dB attenuation at 1350Hz and 80dB attenuation from 1500Hz onwards
2019-07-18T16:08:51 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX1DovgzEok
2019-07-18T16:09:05 < benishor> I switch the frequencies by using the user button on the discovery board
2019-07-18T16:09:31 < jadew> that's some distorted shit
2019-07-18T16:09:33 < benishor> and they are (in order): 500Hz, 1000Hz,  1100Hz, 1200Hz, 1300Hz, 1400Hz and 1500Hz
2019-07-18T16:09:47 < benishor> 1500Hz == flat line
2019-07-18T16:10:22 < benishor> things get funky around transition frequency
2019-07-18T16:10:55 < benishor> attenuation does happen as it can be seen
2019-07-18T16:11:04 < benishor> but the spectral purity is terribly fucked
2019-07-18T16:12:51 < jadew> I'd test it without the filter
2019-07-18T16:13:00 < jadew> maybe the problem is in your sine generation
2019-07-18T16:17:40 < benishor> Haohmaru: so what are you saying? that the buffers don't get cleared?
2019-07-18T16:17:47 < benishor> they get overwritten
2019-07-18T16:18:02 < benishor> the bare sine wave is perfectly ok, if I don't apply filtering to it
2019-07-18T16:18:27 < jadew> he's saying you're not sending it properly
2019-07-18T16:18:43 < jadew> set the filter so it's a pass through
2019-07-18T16:18:49 < jadew> then you'll get to see the actual sine
2019-07-18T16:20:17 < benishor> Haohmaru: so what would you do?
2019-07-18T16:20:38 < benishor> and why doesn't it happen at frequencies lower than the transition?
2019-07-18T16:21:36 < benishor> heh
2019-07-18T16:21:40 < benishor> I'll have to check all the setup
2019-07-18T16:22:58 < benishor> yup, shit, it also happens without filtering, at certain frequencies
2019-07-18T16:23:00 < benishor> fml
2019-07-18T16:23:11 < benishor> so how do I approach this
2019-07-18T16:24:10 < benishor> I guess so
2019-07-18T16:24:30 < benishor> either that or some setup related thinggie which makes things align nicely (as you put it) at certain frequencies
2019-07-18T16:24:32 < benishor> and work
2019-07-18T16:24:43 < benishor> no, it was AC coupled
2019-07-18T17:01:25 < dongs> hmm nice
2019-07-18T17:01:34 < dongs> tivo had a dish with 3 lnbs at my office pointed at some random azn sats
2019-07-18T17:01:47 < dongs> and they just emailed me that after 3 years they no longer need the dish, 3 USB DBV-S2 receivers, or hte laptop it was connected to
2019-07-18T17:01:59 < dongs> and i'm free to do whatever with it
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2019-07-18T19:49:58 < Cracki> anyone know of a job search site that *learns* to show me stuff I like, or at least not show me stuff I don't like?
2019-07-18T19:50:25 < Cracki> all these sites are full of web fuckery and administrative/janitorial work
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2019-07-18T19:58:32 < englishman> this Keysight gets fucking HOT too
2019-07-18T20:01:56 < salcedo> https://kaleshakevendingmachinefoozballtablejobs.io
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2019-07-18T20:17:07 < specing> Cracki: all the real jobs are in china now
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2019-07-18T20:35:27 < jadew> Cracki, linked in
2019-07-18T20:35:44 < Cracki> now that you mention it...
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2019-07-18T20:37:08 < jadew> but spacing is right, all the real jobs are in china, so you have to strive for a bullshit job with lots of pay
2019-07-18T20:37:27 < Cracki> i was about to say they need an app for that but now I have to think of my advisor for that one project who calls all the fucking programs we write "apps"
2019-07-18T20:38:57 < Cracki> he's also very eager to setup "scaffolding", i.e. come up with names and mkdir tons of useless directories even before the first fucking prototype
2019-07-18T20:39:37 < Cracki> next time I get to go job hunting, "being able to fire my boss" is gonna be a requirement
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2019-07-18T20:41:02 < Cracki> it's like he's nailing picture frames to my fucking walls and then tells me how this one needs a picture with my dog (I don't have a dog)
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2019-07-18T20:42:06 < jadew> it's probably because if you get a dog, he wants you to put it there, not taped to the bathroom wall
2019-07-18T20:42:29 < jadew> kinda makes sense if you look at it from his perspective
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2019-07-18T20:43:03 < Cracki> he's the type to want the actual dog taped to the bathroom wall
2019-07-18T20:43:48 < salcedo> "scaffolding" lol
2019-07-18T20:43:54 < salcedo> the scaffolders
2019-07-18T20:44:13 < Cracki> in this relationship, I'm the senior developer and he's the one with bigger job title, which is ridiculous
2019-07-18T20:44:35 < salcedo> take it from me. a convicted felon who has never had a corporate job.
2019-07-18T20:44:37 < Cracki> gimp on a race horse
2019-07-18T20:44:45 < salcedo> job titles mean absolutely jack shit
2019-07-18T20:44:49 < Cracki> ikr
2019-07-18T20:44:55 < Cracki> job titles often mean the inverse
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2019-07-18T20:45:07 < salcedo> at the end of the day, you do you. get your skills up. keep learning. fuck job titles.
2019-07-18T20:45:34 < Cracki> like suits, a substitute for substance
2019-07-18T20:45:45 < Cracki> I'll fuck his directory structure too
2019-07-18T20:45:46 < salcedo> i can't imagine myself ever having a "real" job.
2019-07-18T20:46:13 < salcedo> or a "career"
2019-07-18T20:46:18 < salcedo> am too old for a career anyway
2019-07-18T20:46:20 < Cracki> what even is real these days
2019-07-18T20:46:29 < salcedo> real = you have a job title ofc
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2019-07-18T20:46:49 < Cracki> wise old ones like us are supposed to sit on mountain tops and make the tourists do silly things
2019-07-18T20:46:52 < salcedo> you show up, you do your time, you drink from the kale shake vending machine, you play foozball, you go to company beer outings, etc.
2019-07-18T20:47:12 < salcedo> keep your linkedin page pristine
2019-07-18T20:47:16 < Cracki> a *real* job title is when your name becomes the job title
2019-07-18T20:47:19 < salcedo> keep posting to instagram and tweeting
2019-07-18T20:47:24 < Cracki> neuralink has an Elon Musk, you see
2019-07-18T20:47:43 < Cracki> my linkedin profile picture is of a cat
2019-07-18T20:47:44 < salcedo> having a job title is a lot of responsibility. you have to maintain the facade.
2019-07-18T20:47:47 < Cracki> I think that's appropriate
2019-07-18T20:47:47 < jadew> job titles are important
2019-07-18T20:47:49 < ds2> real jobs ? vs iJobs? (or jJobs for the EE's) =)
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2019-07-18T20:48:10 < jadew> because when you go to get a new job, they'll ask you: "what position did you have there?"
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2019-07-18T20:48:30 < jadew> and based on what you answer, they'll consider on weather you're fit for the position you're after or not
2019-07-18T20:48:49 < salcedo> if i was ever being interviewed
2019-07-18T20:48:51 < jadew> if you say "janitor", they probably won't consider you for "chief janitor"
2019-07-18T20:49:02 < salcedo> and they asked me "what position did you have there" i would get up and leave
2019-07-18T20:49:04 < jadew> but if your position was already "chief janitory" then maybe they will
2019-07-18T20:49:29 < jadew> salcedo, and they'd welcome you to - if you can't take a simple question
2019-07-18T20:49:33 < Cracki> wait, they expect straight answers? never answer the question directly!
2019-07-18T20:49:47 < salcedo> jadew: and i'd be glad to not have to work for idiots
2019-07-18T20:49:59 < salcedo> "what position did you have" is not a valid interview question.
2019-07-18T20:50:10 < jadew> salcedo, what's idiotic about trying to figure out how qualified you are?
2019-07-18T20:50:11 < salcedo> it tells me that the company is incompetent
2019-07-18T20:50:18 < jadew> salcedo, yes it is
2019-07-18T20:50:19 < Cracki> they didn't hire me for what I am but for what I do
2019-07-18T20:50:27 < Cracki> then they gotta ask "so what did you do"
2019-07-18T20:50:34 < salcedo> jadew: this is why i don't have a "real" job :)
2019-07-18T20:50:36 < jadew> it tells them that the previous company had you in that position and for x time
2019-07-18T20:50:44 < salcedo> because i won't work for anyone who asks me "what position" or "what title" did i have
2019-07-18T20:50:48 < jadew> which means that even if you were bad at it, you got to deal with x and y
2019-07-18T20:51:01 < jadew> and then they can call them and ask: "did you fire this guy or did he leave?"
2019-07-18T20:51:08 < jadew> and they'll know if you sucked at it or not
2019-07-18T20:51:11 < salcedo> if you ask me "what did you do for them?" then i am happy to answer. that is the valid question.
2019-07-18T20:51:20 < Cracki> job titles are just labels, maaaan
2019-07-18T20:52:13 < jadew> salcedo, sure, but I'd be more inclined to hire you if you were also recognized for that work
2019-07-18T20:52:19 < jadew> and it wasn't just in your head
2019-07-18T20:52:34 < salcedo> that's the problem with the world
2019-07-18T20:53:22 < salcedo> this is why uber drivers have linkedin pages that say "Senior Municipal Transportatation Engineer"
2019-07-18T20:53:36 < jadew> it's how things work... like it or not, that label you were given, is part of your previous experience
2019-07-18T20:53:45 < salcedo> the extra 'ta' means they were Engineer III
2019-07-18T20:53:52 < salcedo> no
2019-07-18T20:53:56 < Cracki> see if someone asked me "what was your job title" and I responded with that and they didn't burst out laughing, I couldn't take them seriously anymore
2019-07-18T20:53:56 < jadew> and it does carry some weight
2019-07-18T20:53:58 < salcedo> nobody gives me labels
2019-07-18T20:54:02 < salcedo> *I* give me labels.
2019-07-18T20:54:07 < Cracki> ^
2019-07-18T20:54:20 < BrainDamage> for what's worth, some labels are protected legally
2019-07-18T20:54:43 < BrainDamage> you cannot call yourself an engineer in my country without having a degree and passing a special exam
2019-07-18T20:55:00 < salcedo> That's your country.
2019-07-18T20:55:05 < salcedo> in the US, you can be whatever you want.
2019-07-18T20:55:27 < Cracki> same around here, which is why even though the degrees have comparable difficulty, engineers lord it over "mere" computer scientists
2019-07-18T20:55:53 < salcedo> any company that lists a CS degree as a requisite is not worth my time
2019-07-18T20:56:20 < Cracki> maybe they know that they need that level of education
2019-07-18T20:56:22 < salcedo> i'll apply to them anyway, even though i have no degrees :)
2019-07-18T20:56:32 < salcedo> because i don't care
2019-07-18T20:56:33 < Cracki> but then, even CS degrees vary a LOT in worth
2019-07-18T20:57:12 < salcedo> if checking all the stupid boxes gets be through HR, that's all that matters. what matters is whether you know your stuff when you're being interviewed by people who know their stuff.
2019-07-18T20:57:41 < salcedo> if you're interviewing with HR, you have already failed.
2019-07-18T20:57:50 < jadew> salcedo, that's true, but it still doesn't mean your previous titles were meaningless
2019-07-18T20:57:55 < salcedo> there is no point in trying to sell them on job titles and "what position did you have there?"
2019-07-18T20:58:08 < salcedo> i'm not saying previous titles are meaningless though
2019-07-18T20:58:10 < BrainDamage> you're assuming that what's there is everywhere
2019-07-18T20:58:27 < BrainDamage> here HR interview is mandatory for essentially all the big companies
2019-07-18T20:58:39 < BrainDamage> and it's just memorizing two buzzwords to reply
2019-07-18T20:58:54 < BrainDamage> a mere formality to filter off random candidates
2019-07-18T20:59:07 < salcedo> what i'm saying is if i'm in an interview and engineers/not-HR are asking me that question, it puts up a red flag that they don't know how to ask the right questions.
2019-07-18T20:59:54 < salcedo> if they don't know how to gauge level of skill/expertise during the interview and must rely on "what title did you have? what position did you have?" - what other kinds of things will they not be able to gauge?
2019-07-18T21:00:14 < salcedo> if i get hired there, and they need to solve some complex problem, what kind of questions will they ask then?
2019-07-18T21:00:18 < Cracki> "nobody was ever fired for buying from IBM. let's buy from IBM."
2019-07-18T21:00:57 < salcedo> before i committed suicide (was pretty hilarious actually)
2019-07-18T21:01:21 < Cracki> sounds like a story you should share in every HR interview
2019-07-18T21:01:32 < salcedo> one of my linkedin previous job titles was "Senior Beverage Industry Services Architect"
2019-07-18T21:01:48 < salcedo> i was an attendant at a liquor store
2019-07-18T21:01:50 < Cracki> bartender
2019-07-18T21:01:59 < Cracki> ah, just cashier
2019-07-18T21:02:02 < salcedo> yep
2019-07-18T21:02:07 < salcedo> but if i'm in an interview and they ask me about it
2019-07-18T21:02:13 < salcedo> i'm going to tell them "Senior Beverage Industry Services Architect"
2019-07-18T21:02:20 < Cracki> it's an euphemism mill.
2019-07-18T21:02:24 < salcedo> and i'm going to upsell the shit out of it and make it sound extremely important and prestigious.
2019-07-18T21:02:35 < Cracki> like those letters of recommendation that MUST NOT contain anything negative or else you get sued
2019-07-18T21:02:35 < salcedo> because that's all linkedin is
2019-07-18T21:02:51 < salcedo> a bunch of gas station cashiers and uber drivers making themselfs look like fucking CTOs
2019-07-18T21:03:19 < Cracki> accelerationism.
2019-07-18T21:03:24 < Cracki> inflation.
2019-07-18T21:03:33 < jadew> salcedo, they might not ask that question, because it should be on the CV
2019-07-18T21:03:34 < Cracki> make job titles mean nothing.
2019-07-18T21:03:42 < jadew> but what that title says matters, like I explained earlier
2019-07-18T21:03:49 < salcedo> jadew: for HR. yes
2019-07-18T21:03:51 < salcedo> agree
2019-07-18T21:03:52 < jadew> it shows the level of trust and recognition that was granted to you before
2019-07-18T21:04:03 < jadew> no, the actual people who hire you
2019-07-18T21:04:16 < Cracki> so that means if you make the mistake of working for ignorant idiots, you're fucked
2019-07-18T21:04:25 < salcedo> Cracki: nope
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2019-07-18T21:04:28 < jadew> yes
2019-07-18T21:04:28 < Cracki> because they won't recognize you
2019-07-18T21:04:32 < jadew> exactly
2019-07-18T21:04:36 < salcedo> because they don't set your title. you do.
2019-07-18T21:04:42 < Cracki> ;)
2019-07-18T21:04:52 < jadew> salcedo, not really
2019-07-18T21:05:05 < jadew> they set your title so the other people you work with know what to expect from you
2019-07-18T21:05:15 < jadew> and in some cases, that they need to STFU if you say so
2019-07-18T21:05:25 < jadew> regardless of age or how they perceive you
2019-07-18T21:05:29 < salcedo> oh?
2019-07-18T21:05:35 < jadew> because your title says you're their superior
2019-07-18T21:06:10 < salcedo> so if i'm a top rated freelancer on a few platforms, have years of excellent reviews, have industry certifications, but have never held a corporate job in my life, can i call myself a cloud systems architect?
2019-07-18T21:06:13 < Cracki> I'd love to work at a place where people recognize dedication, skill, wisdom
2019-07-18T21:06:22 < salcedo> how about SENIOR cloud systems architect, because i've been doing it for at least 5 years?
2019-07-18T21:06:31 < jadew> Cracki, that's what's recognized through the title
2019-07-18T21:06:44 < Cracki> 5 years is definitely senior
2019-07-18T21:06:52 < salcedo> but i don't have a CS agree.
2019-07-18T21:06:55 < salcedo> i also don't like kale
2019-07-18T21:06:58 < salcedo> nor do i own a macbook
2019-07-18T21:07:02 < Cracki> anything more than two semesters in anything is senior
2019-07-18T21:07:09 < salcedo> so i guess i'm not getting through HR.
2019-07-18T21:07:11 < jadew> salcedo, no
2019-07-18T21:07:21 < jadew> you're an IT contractor
2019-07-18T21:07:33 < Cracki> so if you've sat on a beach for 12 months in your life, you're Senior Silicon something-or-other
2019-07-18T21:07:39 < salcedo> jadew: do you not see how backwards that is?
2019-07-18T21:07:45 < jadew> you have to get the job that says you are that, before you can call yourself that
2019-07-18T21:07:51 < jadew> it's not backwards
2019-07-18T21:08:02 < jadew> if it's not agreed upon by your peers or superiors, then it's meaningless
2019-07-18T21:08:08 < salcedo> with the exception of BrainDamage who lives in a country with laws. i can absolutely give myself a title.
2019-07-18T21:08:15 < salcedo> my clients hire me based on the titles i give myself.
2019-07-18T21:08:22 < jadew> sure you can, but it means nothing coming from you
2019-07-18T21:08:30 < jadew> I can proclaim myself king of spain
2019-07-18T21:08:33 < Cracki> remember, jadew lives in a HIGH TRUST SOCIETY.
2019-07-18T21:08:34 < jadew> doesn't make it true
2019-07-18T21:08:39 < Cracki> western nations lost that.
2019-07-18T21:09:08 < salcedo> jadew: i understand your point of view. i really do.
2019-07-18T21:09:35 < salcedo> where i think our beliefs on the subject differ are because of maybe we have had very opposite life paths.
2019-07-18T21:09:39 < Cracki> i consider myself your peer and I recognize your claim over spain. happy?
2019-07-18T21:09:53 < jadew> Cracki, haha
2019-07-18T21:10:04 < salcedo> obviously if you give yourself king of spain title, nobody is going to believe you.
2019-07-18T21:10:24 < Cracki> wat, now we're talking about "believable"?
2019-07-18T21:10:24 < salcedo> there has to be SOME kind of proof that the title means something.
2019-07-18T21:10:32 < jadew> salcedo, I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, I'm just letting you in on the thought patterns of someone who hires engineers
2019-07-18T21:10:34 < Cracki> so he built a sand castle once
2019-07-18T21:10:36 < Cracki> that's good enough
2019-07-18T21:10:38 < jadew> (I've done that before)
2019-07-18T21:10:45 < Cracki> if uber drivers can call themselves X
2019-07-18T21:11:18 < salcedo> uber drivers calling themselves senior municipal transport engineers is coming, if not already here.
2019-07-18T21:11:35 < salcedo> especially if we enter another recession
2019-07-18T21:11:42 < Cracki> it's still outrageous bullshit
2019-07-18T21:11:49 < Cracki> pure euphemism
2019-07-18T21:11:55 < salcedo> it gets them through HR though, right?
2019-07-18T21:12:01 < salcedo> because HR are all robots
2019-07-18T21:12:06 < Cracki> no, HR hears it and knows they have an uber driver
2019-07-18T21:12:13 < salcedo> LOL since when? :)
2019-07-18T21:12:15 < Cracki> someone with a brain programs these robots
2019-07-18T21:12:25 < salcedo> since when does HR have the ability to think critically?
2019-07-18T21:12:30 < Cracki> they don't
2019-07-18T21:12:36 < Cracki> they just have to run the string matching
2019-07-18T21:13:11 < Cracki> "where did you work as senior municipal transport engineer?" "uhhh at uber"
2019-07-18T21:13:23 < jadew> I don't know why you worry about HR so much
2019-07-18T21:13:25 < salcedo> if HR weren't robots, we wouldn't have entire countries flooding indeed.com with 12 page resumes listing every fucking oracle hardware and software product made since 2001.
2019-07-18T21:13:37 < jadew> they'll just do an initial screenting to make sure you're not a complete idiot
2019-07-18T21:13:37 < Cracki> "uuh prefer not to say" means "sat on the couch and wanked continuously"
2019-07-18T21:13:50 < jadew> they know what they don't know
2019-07-18T21:13:59 < jadew> so they won't pretend that they do with stupid questions
2019-07-18T21:14:04 < Cracki> by entire countries you mean india?
2019-07-18T21:14:25 < jadew> they'll just talk to you a bit to see if you _might_ be a candidate
2019-07-18T21:14:27 < salcedo> it's 2019. i'm not allowed to name names.
2019-07-18T21:14:40 < salcedo> gotta be PC :)
2019-07-18T21:14:49 < Cracki> PC is so nineties
2019-07-18T21:15:00 < Cracki> the teens are all about oppression olympics
2019-07-18T21:15:15 < salcedo> btw i was also a senior municipal transport engineer for a while
2019-07-18T21:15:35 < Cracki> I'm a member of a global minority. my people require Endangered status
2019-07-18T21:15:55 < salcedo> I was crucial to the disruption of municipal transportation industry by providing just in time delivery of humans from point A to point B.
2019-07-18T21:16:26 < Cracki> the WHO needs to implement nature reserves and breeding programs for my people
2019-07-18T21:16:29 < salcedo> Utilizing highly sophisticated internet-enabled computer and satellite navigation technology.
2019-07-18T21:17:56 < Cracki> gawd, talking bs should be considered assault and legitimate reason for self defense
2019-07-18T21:18:24 < salcedo> it's not BS. none of what i just said is a false statement.
2019-07-18T21:18:33 < Cracki> that's the definition of bs
2019-07-18T21:18:52 < BrainDamage> not all data is information
2019-07-18T21:19:19 < salcedo> You are your LinkedIn page.
2019-07-18T21:19:48 < BrainDamage> I guess I don't exist then
2019-07-18T21:20:00 < salcedo> in the future, all places of employment will be adult daycare centers where people sit in break rooms and play with marshmellows and spaghetti sticks.
2019-07-18T21:20:30 < salcedo> collecting their high salaries because their linkedin pages pleased the AI
2019-07-18T21:20:49 < Cracki> I find that unlikely
2019-07-18T21:21:14 < Cracki> soylent green from underperformers is more probable
2019-07-18T21:27:25 < Mangy_Dog> soylent green fro underperfomers tastes like fail and dust D:
2019-07-18T21:27:49 < Cracki> it's what the brits did that caused them epidemics of foot and mouth
2019-07-18T21:27:53 < Mangy_Dog> you want the high acheivers... the gogetters
2019-07-18T21:27:57 < Mangy_Dog> those really taste sweet
2019-07-18T21:28:01 < Cracki> why, you want dysgenics?
2019-07-18T21:28:40 < Cracki> long term thinking dictates that you reward the good and punish the bad
2019-07-18T21:28:59 < Cracki> the only way to reward and punish DNA is to prevent it from propagating
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2019-07-18T22:01:11 < qyx> wow quality HR chats
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2019-07-18T22:07:06 < kakimir> hello evening crew
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2019-07-18T22:10:45 < kakimir> Steffanx: movie was so good I only watched half of it
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2019-07-18T22:28:09 < jadew> kakimir, which one?
2019-07-18T22:28:14 < jadew> the zombieland one?
2019-07-18T22:28:26 < kakimir> Glass
2019-07-18T22:28:29 < jadew> ah
2019-07-18T22:28:44 < jadew> right, that one was a bit disappointing
2019-07-18T22:29:01 < jadew> unbreakable was good tho
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2019-07-18T22:38:28 < Steffanx> Excellent kakimir 
2019-07-18T22:38:42 < kakimir> thanks steff
2019-07-18T22:38:44 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c700:d26:71ae:2662:f9b0:dc] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-18T22:39:54 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/rN5LZCx.png
2019-07-18T22:39:58 < Steffanx> Better start over kakimir 
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--- Day changed Fri Jul 19 2019
2019-07-19T00:03:27 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@142.165.144.124] has joined ##stm32
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2019-07-19T00:17:34 < kakimir> would you guise please use link to to your image and only your image in imgur hosting
2019-07-19T00:17:54 < kakimir> it takes 2hours every time I open imgur link
2019-07-19T00:19:02 < Thorn> $23 worth of  LQW15AN RF inductors :/
2019-07-19T00:19:08 < Steffanx> Ok blame rob235 
2019-07-19T00:20:25 < Thorn> a reel of (one of the values) of them is $184 wtf
2019-07-19T00:21:16 < Thorn> $480 in digikey
2019-07-19T00:32:16 < salcedo> $5 + $475 CHiyyyyyna
2019-07-19T00:32:25 < salcedo> gotta pay dem tariffs. unless you're Apple
2019-07-19T00:32:39 < salcedo> can't have the little guys innovating. no sirs.
2019-07-19T00:32:58 < salcedo> then they might present competition. can't have that. no sirs.
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2019-07-19T00:37:06 < jadew> that thing bitmask did looks pretty cool
2019-07-19T00:37:51 < jadew> he needs another bench, but that's a different story
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2019-07-19T00:45:45 < salcedo> what's wrong with the bench?
2019-07-19T00:45:55 < jadew> there's no room on it
2019-07-19T00:46:08 < salcedo> that's because there's a brain on it.
2019-07-19T00:49:53 < jadew> it's funny how people tend to end up with tiny spaces to work in, because they stuff their benches with a lot of crap that shouldn't be there in the first place
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2019-07-19T01:03:26 < salcedo> this is clearly not one of those cases though.
2019-07-19T01:04:11 < salcedo> the plastic brain is connected to the pseudoplastic transhuman brain via neuralink
2019-07-19T01:04:40 < salcedo> it is an exponential increase in plastic chip card insertion
2019-07-19T01:14:54 < jadew> I had a notepad open with passives I had to buy on my next order
2019-07-19T01:15:02 < jadew> windows rebooted for the fucking update
2019-07-19T01:15:19 < jadew> and I'm pretty sure I disabled that auto-reset shit
2019-07-19T01:15:42 < Steffanx> Dont use notepad for that
2019-07-19T01:15:56 < jadew> didn't cross my mind that it would reboot :/
2019-07-19T01:16:05 < jadew> I keep unsaved notepads for weeks
2019-07-19T01:17:05 < Thorn> so if I copy the layout and component values from a silabs board will the transceiver actually work lol
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2019-07-19T02:02:15 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0NfI2NeDHI kaki night music
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2019-07-19T05:06:36 < englishman> if you try to print page 2 of a 1 page document in word, it successfully prints zero pages with no errors
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2019-07-19T06:14:55 < salcedo> hrm. ok i made leds blink with libopencm3
2019-07-19T06:15:42 < salcedo> i think i will use stm32cubemx to generate all the peripheral setup code and then port to libopencm3-template
2019-07-19T06:15:54 < salcedo> i like this :)
2019-07-19T06:15:58 < salcedo> karlp: you rox
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2019-07-19T06:17:07 < R2COM> sup
2019-07-19T06:17:21 < salcedo> greetings and salutations
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2019-07-19T11:27:18 < jly> ANiME
2019-07-19T11:31:15 < jly> is that what it is?
2019-07-19T11:35:41 < jly> oh
2019-07-19T11:37:36 < Thorn> Altium Disaster
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2019-07-19T12:23:03 < Thorn> so according to AN5337 if you run H7 @ > 200 MHz its lifetime will be reduced?
2019-07-19T12:26:21 < Thorn> core frequency depends on voltage scaling and lifetime depends on die temperature and voltage scaling
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2019-07-19T12:52:35 < Steffanx> Loicense
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2019-07-19T13:24:11 < Steffanx> Welcome home Haohmaru  
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2019-07-19T14:17:32 < Cracki> jadew, I would suggest windows "sticky notes". they autosave afaik and you don't have to invent a file name
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2019-07-19T15:17:35 < karlp> salcedo: it's a cast of hudnreds, not just me, but thanks
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2019-07-19T15:32:07 < jadew> Cracki, I use those too, thanks
2019-07-19T15:32:24 < jadew> but sometimes I just want something that goes away
2019-07-19T15:33:32 < jadew> I wonder what I forgot to buy this time
2019-07-19T15:34:28 < jadew> components are getting more expensive
2019-07-19T15:34:59 < jadew> or I'm buying more expensive stuff
2019-07-19T15:35:03 < zyp> na zdrowie
2019-07-19T15:35:27 < jadew> is that like "hello"?
2019-07-19T15:35:49 < jadew> if yes, then hai noroc
2019-07-19T15:35:49 < zyp> maybe for some people
2019-07-19T15:36:01 < karlp> bit early for beers isn't it zyp?
2019-07-19T15:36:06 < karlp> you on hjolidays?
2019-07-19T15:40:29 < zyp> small one, going to a friend's wedding
2019-07-19T15:40:57 < zyp> currently in warzaw airport waiting for my next flight
2019-07-19T15:43:31 < englishman> altidumb got rid of the "create project folder" checkbox when making a new project and now creates a folder everytiem
2019-07-19T15:43:39 < englishman> innovation.
2019-07-19T15:47:23 < jadew> sounds more like "hmm... this dialog would look better without a checkbox. - What do you think, random person with nothing to do with programming or engineering? - Yes, yes, that would look much better. - Then it's settled." - Management
2019-07-19T15:50:21 < jadew> there are so few things separating kicad from altium
2019-07-19T15:50:50 < jadew> as I understand it, they're delayed because they're reworking the base code
2019-07-19T15:51:04 < jadew> no, kicad has actual missing features
2019-07-19T15:51:33 < jadew> but I think most of them will be there in about 2 years
2019-07-19T15:51:49 < jadew> regardless how you look at it, altium has them, kicad doesn't
2019-07-19T16:02:34 < Steffanx> Hmpf, have an tcp/ip problem on windows 10 and lwip, so it seems,  turn of virus scanner.. problem gone. 
2019-07-19T16:04:02 < jadew> the virus noticed the antivirus and stopped all activity
2019-07-19T16:04:45 < Steffanx> Idk why it happens. Same scanner runs on the windows 7 machine and there it's all fine and dandy
2019-07-19T16:05:19 < Steffanx> Wireshark talks about a spurious retransmission. It doesn't do that when the scanner is off
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2019-07-19T16:08:37 < Steffanx> And it's any s10e 
2019-07-19T16:08:44 < Steffanx> Win10.
2019-07-19T16:08:49 < Steffanx> Lol autocomplete.
2019-07-19T16:09:09 < Steffanx> Win10 machine here. But they happen to run the same antivirus stuff
2019-07-19T16:10:44 < ac_slater> hey guys, I know this isn't stm32 specific but I'm having issues only on stm32 at the moment. I have a library that creates a section in the binary and uses some linkerscript variables to find the size of the section. https://paste.debian.net/plain/1092321 ... search 'mysection'. At runtime, those variables are 0 (when inspecting their value). Any ideas?
2019-07-19T16:11:11 < ac_slater> the variables in question are __mysection_start and __mysection_stop
2019-07-19T16:12:16 < ac_slater> I'm using gcc 9.1 with newlib if that matters
2019-07-19T16:12:56 < ac_slater> Haohmaru: right
2019-07-19T16:13:00 < ac_slater> I'll head there and see
2019-07-19T16:13:09 < ac_slater> wasn't sure if this was really an ARM specific issue
2019-07-19T16:13:12 < salcedo> karlp: yes. to clarify my earlier idea about taking stm32cubemx generated code and "port" to libopencm3 - i know this is not necessary but it will help me learn. i am stm32noob
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2019-07-19T17:03:26 < Thorn> ac_slater: try referencing _mysection_start in your code (minus one leading underscore)
2019-07-19T17:04:06 < ac_slater> Thorn: ok
2019-07-19T17:04:08 < ac_slater> one sec
2019-07-19T17:05:08 < Thorn> or removing underscore(s) from the symbol in the linker script itself
2019-07-19T17:05:11 < Thorn> or something
2019-07-19T17:06:57 < ac_slater> Thorn: gotcha. Trying now
2019-07-19T17:07:12 < ac_slater> I know each user section gets automatic variables created
2019-07-19T17:07:19 < ac_slater> as shown here https://stackoverflow.com/questions/16552710/how-do-you-get-the-start-and-end-addresses-of-a-custom-elf-section
2019-07-19T17:07:30 < ac_slater> but, I'm having issues with those, hence my attempt to create my own
2019-07-19T17:11:38 < ac_slater> Thorn: I just changed those variables to foo1 and foo2. With objdump, they have the same address
2019-07-19T17:11:41 < ac_slater> wtf
2019-07-19T17:12:08 < Thorn> address? you want their value, not address
2019-07-19T17:12:35 < Thorn> symbols don't have an address
2019-07-19T17:12:44 < ac_slater> Thorn: you're right. Sorry
2019-07-19T17:13:50 < ac_slater> In any case, they have the same value
2019-07-19T17:14:15 < ac_slater> which is not zero, but random
2019-07-19T17:14:21 < ac_slater> it's a large number
2019-07-19T17:14:29 < ac_slater> 1162626121
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2019-07-19T17:27:58 < Cracki> how much is that in hex
2019-07-19T17:28:13 < Cracki> 1162626121
2019-07-19T17:28:32 < Cracki> I'm betting 0x454c4449 was supposed to be ascii text
2019-07-19T17:28:52 < Cracki> IDLE
2019-07-19T17:28:54 < Cracki> hmmm
2019-07-19T17:29:26 < Cracki> or ELDI, if that means anything to you
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2019-07-19T17:47:28 < Thorn> wtf https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1853310387.html
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2019-07-19T18:04:30 < jadew> on my display it says 0% tested
2019-07-19T18:05:28 < jadew> Thorn, they don't have them in stock or they're on vacation
2019-07-19T18:06:27 < jadew> that's how much it costs to get them to go to the post office on their day off
2019-07-19T18:29:37 < Cracki> * 10...0% tested
2019-07-19T18:29:45 < Cracki> apparently it's wrapping weirdly
2019-07-19T18:38:45 < Thorn> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUjdqeA_7k4
2019-07-19T18:42:33 < Ad0> how do I actually just flash from stm32cubeide ? 
2019-07-19T18:42:51 < antto> oh, Ad0
2019-07-19T18:43:06 < Ad0> hey antto yeah I am here as well now :)
2019-07-19T18:43:22 < antto> poor soul :~(
2019-07-19T18:45:58 < Ad0> yeah tell me about it . I am trying to make an UART bridge but there's like 100 different ways to do DMA
2019-07-19T18:46:05 < Ad0> and they are different on the different chips
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2019-07-19T18:46:25 < antto> bridge?
2019-07-19T18:46:48 < Ad0> transmitting data from an uart to another
2019-07-19T18:46:51 < antto> are you trying to pipe two UARTs of different baudrates or something?
2019-07-19T18:46:54 < Ad0> data in - data out and vice versa
2019-07-19T18:46:55 < antto> in both directions
2019-07-19T18:46:56 < Ad0> yes
2019-07-19T18:47:09 < bitmask> guten morgan
2019-07-19T18:47:14 < antto> well, no idea with DMA
2019-07-19T18:47:33 < Ad0> I made it sorta work following a github project but it has issues with large strings
2019-07-19T18:47:37 < antto> it's easy to do with some FIFOs and interrupt driven receive/transmit
2019-07-19T18:47:43 < Ad0> it literally mises / garbles the message
2019-07-19T18:47:47 < antto> ..on an avr
2019-07-19T18:48:27 < Ad0> the way I am testing now is to just use the nucleo board and receive back what I send on the same UART
2019-07-19T18:48:35 < Ad0> UART2 = USB uart
2019-07-19T18:49:00 < antto> tbh i don't know what i'm even doing in this channel
2019-07-19T18:49:11 < Ad0> haha
2019-07-19T18:49:24 < antto> besides contributing to the sh*ttalk
2019-07-19T18:49:31 < Ad0> arm cortex is a bit more complicated. but doesn't atmel have that as well :)
2019-07-19T18:49:39 < antto> they do
2019-07-19T18:50:07 < antto> i got a board done sitting at the job waiting to be ordered with a atsame53
2019-07-19T18:50:29 < Ad0> hehe
2019-07-19T18:50:31 < antto> that's cortex M4
2019-07-19T18:50:44 < Ad0> seems like it can't smoothly send data when it's beyond the DMA buffer
2019-07-19T18:50:44 < antto> cortex mortex schmorteggz
2019-07-19T18:51:22 < antto> well, my impression of DMA is that it likes neatly-sized chunks of data
2019-07-19T18:51:51 < antto> but my impressions come from short eyeballing the xmega DMA
2019-07-19T18:52:19 < antto> maybe it's fancier on the korteggz
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2019-07-19T19:08:12 < antto> vintage musics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg_0LIQBsJo
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2019-07-19T19:11:20 < Ad0> :)
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2019-07-19T19:49:36 < invzim> any makers around?
2019-07-19T19:50:18 < Mangy_Dog> moo?
2019-07-19T19:50:28 < invzim> need to make a dxf file for laser cut acryllic
2019-07-19T19:50:34 < invzim> no idea which program to use
2019-07-19T19:50:43 < antto> librecad
2019-07-19T19:50:46 < englishman> pirated solidworks
2019-07-19T19:50:56 < antto> virusessss
2019-07-19T19:51:00 < antto> guilt
2019-07-19T19:51:01 < invzim> I just need a 2d outline I think
2019-07-19T19:51:11 < antto> librecad^2
2019-07-19T19:51:26 < invzim> can it do dxf?
2019-07-19T19:51:46 < antto> bruh, i know what i'm talking
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2019-07-19T20:14:05 < qyx> I would have recommended a free version of draftsight
2019-07-19T20:14:24 < qyx> but they made it payware
2019-07-19T20:29:03 < Ad0> antto, I fixed it by having 2 alternate buffer. I guess that's why one should use a larger ring buffer to memcpy to 
2019-07-19T20:29:19 < Ad0> too lazy to write a ringbuffer class myself
2019-07-19T20:29:36 < Ad0> there has to be a simple non-STL C++ ringbuffer
2019-07-19T20:29:57 < antto> i got one for avr tho ;P~
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2019-07-19T20:44:16 < salcedo> hrm
2019-07-19T20:44:42 < salcedo> > flash erase_check 0
2019-07-19T20:44:44 < salcedo> device id = 0x20006461
2019-07-19T20:44:46 < salcedo> Cannot identify target as a STM32L4 family.
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2019-07-19T21:05:05 < Cracki> too LAZY to write a simple ringbuffer?
2019-07-19T21:05:27 < Cracki> the "hardest" part is properly controlling access to it
2019-07-19T21:06:21 < Cracki> and maybe noticing when memcpy doesn't compensate for unaligned access
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2019-07-19T21:10:12 < salcedo> ahah. looking at src of openocd it looks like 0.10.0 might not recognize the L496
2019-07-19T21:11:38 < salcedo> yep. that's what it is.
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2019-07-19T21:12:21 < salcedo> was scratching my head because i could connect to the target just fine but can't see flash
2019-07-19T21:13:52 < salcedo> L496xx/L4A6x use device identifier 0x461 not 0x415
2019-07-19T21:25:29 < Ad0> is osMessagePut() in freeRTOS not possible from HAL_UART_RxCpltCallback ?
2019-07-19T21:27:22 < Ad0> it's a priority issue
2019-07-19T21:31:39 < Ad0> my bad
2019-07-19T21:45:48 < Ad0> https://stm32f4-discovery.net/2017/07/stm32-tutorial-efficiently-receive-uart-data-using-dma/ this is pretty cool
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2019-07-19T21:46:24 < Ad0> I try to use stm32cubeIDE but I can't find the LL drivers for the STM32F103xx
2019-07-19T21:52:15 < kakimir> hello evenings
2019-07-19T21:52:35 < invzim> hm, maybe Altium can export dxf for acryllic..
2019-07-19T21:53:55 < qyx> Ad0: I would say only FromISR functions are allowed in callbacks
2019-07-19T21:54:51 < Ad0> right, it wraps that function. but the problem is the implementation guide I followed, calls the handler from systick (!) which has priority 0. freeRTOS stuff is 5
2019-07-19T21:55:29 < Ad0> so it asserts on that and dies :P
2019-07-19T22:06:53 < Ad0> HAL stuff can't be too slow to transfer 1k back and forth via DMA on the same UART?
2019-07-19T22:07:07 < Ad0> I am just doing an echo test
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2019-07-19T23:07:28 < kakimir> https://gerbolyze.jaseg.net/ anime to pcb converter
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2019-07-19T23:08:32 < kakimir> sorry * to gerber
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2019-07-19T23:10:17 < karlp> Ad0: why does it surprise you that dma likes known sized blocks of data?
2019-07-19T23:11:29 < mawk> don't call freertos functions from that kind of priority Ad0 
2019-07-19T23:11:36 < mawk> it's written plain and simple in freertos docs
2019-07-19T23:11:58 < mawk> just lower systick priority
2019-07-19T23:12:04 < mawk> so numerically increase it
2019-07-19T23:12:08 < Ad0> yeah
2019-07-19T23:12:19 < mawk> you set up freertos to use a timer for its clock anyway right ?
2019-07-19T23:12:23 < mawk> uh no
2019-07-19T23:12:35 < mawk> you set up the whole system to use a timer for its clock, and let systick for freertos alone
2019-07-19T23:12:45 < mawk> and don't use systick for yourself; I think that's it
2019-07-19T23:13:01 < Ad0> I didn't really want to get involved in systick
2019-07-19T23:13:05 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-19T23:13:19 < mawk> so you can just use a freertos task to do something recurringly no ?
2019-07-19T23:13:28 < mawk> or use a timer if you really want a timer
2019-07-19T23:13:29 < Ad0> https://github.com/akospasztor/stm32-dma-uart/blob/master/Src/main.c
2019-07-19T23:13:49 < Ad0> the article is here. kinda weird https://github.com/akospasztor/stm32-dma-uart
2019-07-19T23:14:23 < mawk> yeah not made with freertos right$
2019-07-19T23:14:25 < karlp> if you're just doing a bridge, just do interrupt and be finished already
2019-07-19T23:14:36 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-19T23:14:48 < mawk> you can't really do it efficiently with DMA
2019-07-19T23:14:52 < karlp> you've got to _reallly_ need to squeeze shit out if you want to get into doing dma with timeouts
2019-07-19T23:15:07 < mawk> you'd use like autoreload but that only transports like 2 bytes, then you need to reload it in an interrupt and you lose all benefits
2019-07-19T23:15:09 < karlp> it _can_ help you make some cases faster, but it's more complicated, more code, 
2019-07-19T23:15:25 < Ad0> yes
2019-07-19T23:15:27 < karlp> if you're _normally_ just blasting big blocks, sure,
2019-07-19T23:15:31 < karlp> but get there first.
2019-07-19T23:15:45 < Ad0> the idea was to receive unknown amounts of data and forward it without running into problems. that's it
2019-07-19T23:15:50 < karlp> or hey, whatever, optimze first, evaluate second, wouldn' tbe the first time
2019-07-19T23:16:12 < karlp> your problem requirements so far sound like, "just use normal irqs and stuff bytes back and forth"
2019-07-19T23:16:21 < Ad0> yes
2019-07-19T23:16:27 < mawk> using DMA for unknown block size is ugly anyway
2019-07-19T23:16:30 < karlp> nothing about what y ou've said sounds like tryiing to do dma is going to help or simplify your day in anywayt
2019-07-19T23:16:38 < mawk> the code you linked uses timeouts
2019-07-19T23:16:55 < Ad0> yes
2019-07-19T23:17:57 < Ad0> the whole idea about using DMA wasn't really performance but to just get an event when there's data so I could put a header byte in front of it signifying which UART it came from and send it to the "main bus" uart
2019-07-19T23:18:12 < karlp> I've seen dma on rx with timeouts used for doing 3 usb-uarts on the same part, but just uart<->uart... just ...
2019-07-19T23:18:22 < karlp> so.. you're not doing uart<->uart.
2019-07-19T23:18:36 < karlp> you're doing uart1+uart2 multiplexed with header bytes to a third uart?
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2019-07-19T23:18:58 < Ad0> yes it's a software multiplexer come to think of it
2019-07-19T23:19:04 < Ad0> marking where the data comes from
2019-07-19T23:20:07 < Ad0> if it can be solved with only IRQs I am happy for that
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2019-07-19T23:22:28 < Ad0> doing that stuff in SysTick_Handler was too weird for me 
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2019-07-19T23:22:44 < Cracki> ... you change (add to) the data. use interrupts
2019-07-19T23:23:04 < Ad0> ok
2019-07-19T23:23:10 < Cracki> you'll have to prefix every byte anyway because uart isn't "framed"
2019-07-19T23:23:40 < Cracki> maybe the output queuing could benefit from dma, but likely not
2019-07-19T23:23:53 < Ad0> if  you use idle line detection you know that the stream of bytes came from the same place
2019-07-19T23:24:14 < Cracki> do you do line buffering or does this have to handle binary data too
2019-07-19T23:24:27 < Ad0> all binary so there's nothing like that
2019-07-19T23:24:35 < Cracki> so fuck "idle detection"
2019-07-19T23:25:05 < Cracki> unless you want to introduce framing on top of whatever's coming in
2019-07-19T23:25:35 < Ad0> what would you do personally? :) my first idea was per byte marking
2019-07-19T23:25:35 < Cracki> why not get an usb hub and simply have multiple usb uarts
2019-07-19T23:25:53 < Cracki> since i have no idea why you do this, I can't say what I would do
2019-07-19T23:26:06 < Ad0> let's say I am forced to do it this way :)
2019-07-19T23:26:12 < Cracki> why is that
2019-07-19T23:26:26 < Ad0> those a are the circumstances sadly
2019-07-19T23:26:32 < Cracki> why are those circumstances
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2019-07-19T23:26:43 < Ad0> and that's where the NDA comes in :)
2019-07-19T23:27:02 < Cracki> why the NDA
2019-07-19T23:27:15 < Ad0> it's a signed document
2019-07-19T23:27:22 < Cracki> that's what, not why
2019-07-19T23:27:44 < Cracki> nevermind.
2019-07-19T23:27:56 < Ad0> I want to talk about it but I can't haha
2019-07-19T23:28:06 < Cracki> find a different solution than "take bytes from two uarts and multiplex them together"
2019-07-19T23:28:29 < Ad0> indeed
2019-07-19T23:28:56 < Cracki> use the stm32 to make *two* uart usb devices. then pipe each physical uart to one usb cdc
2019-07-19T23:29:15 < Cracki> why the multiplexing, that's silly
2019-07-19T23:29:28 < Cracki> exactly at which point does what require multiplexing, and why
2019-07-19T23:29:48 < Ad0> it has to do with some other hardware
2019-07-19T23:29:50 < Cracki> buy an usb hub maybe
2019-07-19T23:29:59 < Cracki> you're being nebulous
2019-07-19T23:30:03 < Ad0> I can't really say anymore :/ and no it can't simply slap on an USB hub
2019-07-19T23:30:16 < Cracki> that might be a good quality anywhere but in engineering
2019-07-19T23:30:24 < Cracki> you can slap on an usb hub IC
2019-07-19T23:30:34 < Cracki> and uart-usb ICs
2019-07-19T23:30:44 < Ad0> and they cost money
2019-07-19T23:30:52 < Cracki> so you're wasting time implementing this in sw
2019-07-19T23:31:02 < Ad0> it's a tradeoff
2019-07-19T23:31:15 < Cracki> ics are dingle digit money. you are 2-3 digits per hour
2019-07-19T23:31:16 < Ad0> spent X $ on dev time vs x $ saved on component cost
2019-07-19T23:31:19 < Cracki> *single dingle
2019-07-19T23:31:19 < Ad0> people do this all the time
2019-07-19T23:31:29 < Cracki> aiming at how many parts?
2019-07-19T23:31:53 < Ad0> if you say a million units
2019-07-19T23:32:01 < Cracki> you aren't dealing with a million units
2019-07-19T23:32:05 < Cracki> you're dealing with a prototype
2019-07-19T23:32:20 < Cracki> nobody engages you do make a million pieces of *this*, whatever this is
2019-07-19T23:32:41  * karlp laughs
2019-07-19T23:34:14 < Ad0> the simplest thing would be to have an USB UART IC 
2019-07-19T23:34:30 < Ad0> but ... well... you have to deal with other people
2019-07-19T23:35:08 < Cracki> working "with" or "for" other people?
2019-07-19T23:35:20 < Ad0> both :)
2019-07-19T23:35:55 < Ad0> do you work with other people? or are you completely solo?
2019-07-19T23:35:59 < Cracki> peers you can argue with, "superiors" you can tell they're being idiots until they give up
2019-07-19T23:36:36 < Cracki> I have the lucky situation that my boss is reasonable and open to discussing design
2019-07-19T23:37:07 < Cracki> I had the situation that the "superior" couldn't find his asshole if you gave him explosive shits
2019-07-19T23:37:40 < Cracki> authority isn't derived from sayso, but from respect for technical and leadership skills
2019-07-19T23:41:23 < Cracki> insane design decisions must be called out, no matter who made them or who pushes them onto others
2019-07-19T23:42:17 < Ad0> hehe
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2019-07-19T23:47:56 < salcedo> the boss said we need to put the cloud into stm32. and the internet.
2019-07-19T23:48:41 < englishman> thats what esp1488 is for
2019-07-19T23:51:34 < kakimir> use wt
2019-07-19T23:51:48 < Cracki> wb?
2019-07-19T23:52:07 < kakimir> backend coding with C
2019-07-19T23:52:10 < kakimir> toolkit
2019-07-19T23:52:14 < Cracki> wat
2019-07-19T23:52:31 < Cracki> oh hell https://www.webtoolkit.eu/wt
2019-07-19T23:52:58 < kakimir> it one of those "if I had time and motivation I would get into webdev" things
2019-07-19T23:53:18 < Cracki> >CONTACT US FOR MORE INFORMATION 
2019-07-19T23:53:18 < Cracki> OR A PERSONALISED QUOTATION
2019-07-19T23:53:33 < Cracki> so... it's not usable unless you spend money
2019-07-19T23:54:37 < kakimir> oh
2019-07-19T23:54:46 < Cracki> just guessing
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2019-07-19T23:55:12 < Cracki> the examples look like any other language that connects event handlers to UI
2019-07-19T23:56:44 < kakimir> but important thing is it's C++
2019-07-19T23:56:47 < Ad0> webassembly?
2019-07-19T23:57:04 < kakimir> it's snappy as hell
2019-07-19T23:57:21 < Ad0> yeah webassembly is fast in itself
2019-07-19T23:57:45 < Ad0> people at mono with asp.net blazor is trying to get C# / .NET core to work on it
2019-07-19T23:57:59 < Ad0> that is - compiling and JITing the whole thing in webasm
2019-07-19T23:58:43 < kakimir> what is webassembly?
2019-07-19T23:59:56 < veverak> madness
--- Day changed Sat Jul 20 2019
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2019-07-20T00:02:23 < jadew> that webtoolkit thing sounds like bullshit and a money pit
2019-07-20T00:02:47 < jadew> "without having to write a single line of js" - yeah right...
2019-07-20T00:02:47 < Ad0> webassembly is the future
2019-07-20T00:03:01 < Ad0> everything except javascript is the future :P
2019-07-20T00:03:25 < Ad0> jadew, it's true. well sorta. they probably have some bootstrapping and plumbing in JS; but you are not dealing with that
2019-07-20T00:06:09 < Cracki> I'm just wondering if that C++ runs on the server, or gets compiled to webasm and runs clientside
2019-07-20T00:06:23 < jadew> I think it runs on the server
2019-07-20T00:06:28 < jadew> which is why I think it's all bullshit
2019-07-20T00:06:42 < Cracki> or if they have some magic that takes arbitrary C++ functions and compiles them, so that stuff actually runs partially serverside and clientside
2019-07-20T00:07:05 < Ad0> I bet it has a toolchain to compile the webasm blob
2019-07-20T00:07:10 < veverak> ..
2019-07-20T00:07:22 < Ad0> https://webassembly.org/getting-started/developers-guide/
2019-07-20T00:07:35 < Ad0> that's usually how it's done
2019-07-20T00:07:37 < Cracki> MADNESS I TELL YOU
2019-07-20T00:08:07 < Cracki> it's probably just another web framework like django and ruby on rails
2019-07-20T00:08:18 < Cracki> except for an unusual language
2019-07-20T00:08:25 < salcedo> https://pics.onsizzle.com/you-might-as-well-just-kill-yourself-right-now-web-8745489.png
2019-07-20T00:08:29 < veverak> what we are talking about?
2019-07-20T00:08:38 < veverak> I mean, webassembly itlsef seems like a good idea actually
2019-07-20T00:08:56 < Ad0> it is and C++ is literally compiled down to webasm
2019-07-20T00:09:00 < Cracki> embedded development with lisp
2019-07-20T00:09:04 < Cracki> I'd go for that
2019-07-20T00:09:15 < veverak> instead of sending the browser the javascript to execute, you send assembler for the browser to execute
2019-07-20T00:09:20 < jadew> reading their home page makes it very difficult to figure out how it works
2019-07-20T00:09:23 < veverak> no single fuck given about what language you used to make the assembly
2019-07-20T00:09:25 < veverak> <3
2019-07-20T00:09:26 < Ad0> hehe
2019-07-20T00:09:27 < kakimir> :o
2019-07-20T00:09:33 < kakimir> :O
2019-07-20T00:09:34 < jadew> it seems it's a mixture of server side and client side, but it's unclear
2019-07-20T00:09:40 < jadew> that's a good sign that it's garbage
2019-07-20T00:09:55 < salcedo> i recently wrote a brainfuck interpreter and set the program space to start at 0 on avr. and was able to do blinky with pure brainfuck
2019-07-20T00:09:58 < Cracki> they gotta have some clientside code that acts on what the serverside decides to do
2019-07-20T00:10:14 < veverak> hmm
2019-07-20T00:10:15 < kakimir> I need musics
2019-07-20T00:10:27 < veverak> my lab needs new webpage
2019-07-20T00:10:37 < veverak> we are thinking about asking some student to create something
2019-07-20T00:10:37 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, my guess is that they have a bunch of client-side crap that works with the c++ on the server side
2019-07-20T00:10:40 < veverak> however, I wonder
2019-07-20T00:10:47 < veverak> "static website"
2019-07-20T00:10:51 < veverak> "no javascript"
2019-07-20T00:10:54 < jadew> and a lot of their claims are just bullshit
2019-07-20T00:11:10 < veverak> I suppose not many students can deal with these requirements :)
2019-07-20T00:11:17 < Ad0> most websites are like that, with a web API
2019-07-20T00:11:36 < jadew> most websites are not static
2019-07-20T00:11:36 < Ad0> a lot of the logic is in the client side
2019-07-20T00:11:42 < jadew> nor JS-free
2019-07-20T00:11:49 < veverak> Ad0: static and without javascript?
2019-07-20T00:11:53 < Ad0> no
2019-07-20T00:11:56 < Ad0> not static-static
2019-07-20T00:12:02 < Ad0> look at angular then
2019-07-20T00:12:08 < veverak> do not want to
2019-07-20T00:12:22 < Ad0> don't blame you
2019-07-20T00:12:24 < jadew> what does that have to do with the discussion?
2019-07-20T00:12:27 < veverak> point of this is that I do not have to deal with this bullshit
2019-07-20T00:12:41 < Ad0> jadew, it has to do with how modern sites are structured
2019-07-20T00:13:11 < Ad0> instead of a huge angular library with all the client side code, they pass down a webasm binary
2019-07-20T00:13:22 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBLuvEwIF5E 90's hip hop
2019-07-20T00:13:43 < Ad0> I am staying clear of web dev till they have gotten rid of JS 
2019-07-20T00:13:56 < jadew> what's so wrong with JS?
2019-07-20T00:14:06 < jadew> it has gotten us this far
2019-07-20T00:14:21 < veverak> that's what's wrong with it
2019-07-20T00:14:27 < Ad0> it's a huge hack, interpreted and doesn't have proper types etc, about everything
2019-07-20T00:14:28 < Ad0> hehe
2019-07-20T00:14:43 < veverak> I mean, I don't really think JS is so bad
2019-07-20T00:14:43 < jadew> there are solutions
2019-07-20T00:14:48 < jadew> asm doesn't have types either
2019-07-20T00:14:49 < Ad0> they spent over 20 years trying to optimize it, still slow
2019-07-20T00:14:51 < veverak> yeah, it's interpreted
2019-07-20T00:14:59 < jadew> well asm does
2019-07-20T00:15:04 < jadew> binary doesn't, but you get the point
2019-07-20T00:15:13 < veverak> but you are not solving NP problems on websites
2019-07-20T00:15:19 < veverak> so it should not be a problem
2019-07-20T00:15:22 < jadew> it's a very basic language and people have built better languages on top
2019-07-20T00:15:34 < veverak> problem is that simple websitest spins up the fan of my laptop
2019-07-20T00:15:39 < Ad0> you do have typescript which is a language that generates javascript where you have types, interfaces, classes etc
2019-07-20T00:15:40 < veverak> because coders in JS are shit
2019-07-20T00:15:43 < Ad0> but it's a mess
2019-07-20T00:15:51 < jadew> typescript is not a mess
2019-07-20T00:15:59 < veverak> because the website does a tons of pointless stuff the most ineffecient way
2019-07-20T00:16:04 < jadew> it's freaking awesome
2019-07-20T00:16:14 < Ad0> it's a mess becauyse of all the BS around node modules and packages
2019-07-20T00:16:25 < jadew> what BS?
2019-07-20T00:16:26 < kakimir> jquery
2019-07-20T00:16:54 < veverak> so, I don't think the JS is problem
2019-07-20T00:16:57 < veverak> the JS coders usually are
2019-07-20T00:17:05 < jadew> ^ that
2019-07-20T00:17:56 < jadew> JS is a dumb language for sure, but it can do really neat stuff and supports most programming paradigms
2019-07-20T00:18:20 < Ad0> my first encounter with webasm was on a hijacked site where they had made a cryptocurrency miner in webasm, burning my CPU when it entered the page
2019-07-20T00:18:20 < kakimir> client side I don't understand shit
2019-07-20T00:19:21 < Ad0> 90% of web development is getting the packaging system to work
2019-07-20T00:20:34 < Ad0> and node.js and it's packages.. gawd lol. I remember someone had added a small utility function from a package on npm, and it pulled in half the universe bloating everything
2019-07-20T00:21:03 < jadew> so... remove it and make it from scratch
2019-07-20T00:21:24 < Ad0> it wasn't my project luckily
2019-07-20T00:23:32 < Cracki> we've had all this when php was popular
2019-07-20T00:24:02 < jadew> I'm still using php, but only because I couldn't find a replacement I liked
2019-07-20T00:24:11 < Cracki> only people hadn't invented all these things to appear professional
2019-07-20T00:24:30 < veverak> wors't thing about JS is the community
2019-07-20T00:24:32 < Ad0> haha Cracki 
2019-07-20T00:24:34 < Cracki> the barrier to entry for a node module is nearly zero
2019-07-20T00:24:35 < veverak> because when bad coder arrives in C++
2019-07-20T00:24:36 < jadew> hacklang was interesting for a while, but it's a completely different thing now that doesn't support PHP so... not a good solution
2019-07-20T00:24:38 < veverak> he is told pretty soon
2019-07-20T00:24:40 < veverak> same in C
2019-07-20T00:24:45 < veverak> or any other decent language
2019-07-20T00:24:48 < veverak> but in JS?
2019-07-20T00:24:56 < veverak> the community thinks they are doing a great job!
2019-07-20T00:24:58 < veverak> well
2019-07-20T00:25:00 < veverak> ...
2019-07-20T00:25:10 < Ad0> they have this function "isStringEmpty()" and they put it on NPM, and have an own logo and domain for it, and "btw check my CV!"
2019-07-20T00:25:23 < Cracki> executions at dawn
2019-07-20T00:25:31 < Cracki> there is no other way
2019-07-20T00:25:36 < salcedo> JS is the best thing ever. what kind of world would we have right now if 20-something's couldn't go into massive debt for liberal arts degrees, then realize they have no worth in the world, go through a 6 week coding bootcamp and start making $150k/year?
2019-07-20T00:25:41 < Ad0> haha
2019-07-20T00:25:43 < salcedo> netflix and chill isn't going to pay for itself
2019-07-20T00:25:55 < veverak> Cracki: in my country, we prefer defenestration
2019-07-20T00:26:04 < Cracki> js it fine. the people attracted by the hype are awful.
2019-07-20T00:26:27 < salcedo> i just pushed my avr brainfuck to github because why not
2019-07-20T00:26:35 < jadew> Cracki, it's not the JS hype
2019-07-20T00:26:38 < Cracki> do a business card in brainfuck
2019-07-20T00:26:39 < jadew> it's the webdev hype
2019-07-20T00:26:55 < Cracki> guess what, someone invented apps and those are the hype now
2019-07-20T00:26:58 < jadew> it's a low barrier to entry thing, and there's money in it
2019-07-20T00:27:03 < jadew> because everyone needs a website
2019-07-20T00:27:12 < jadew> so everyone starts doing it
2019-07-20T00:27:51 < Cracki> it's kinda like with nations.
2019-07-20T00:28:00 < jadew> which means you'll have a bunch of people with no tallent, calling themselves programmers
2019-07-20T00:28:00 < Cracki> anything without border patrol isn't a serious nation
2019-07-20T00:28:41 < jadew> some will even get excited about what they're doing, and they'll start building frameworks and libraries
2019-07-20T00:28:48 < jadew> and that's how you get opensource & linux
2019-07-20T00:29:02 < Cracki> fucking sand castles
2019-07-20T00:29:29 < Cracki> 100% of linux's goodness is because linus is still in control
2019-07-20T00:30:00 < Cracki> it's called an ecosystem because it's full of germs and other diseases
2019-07-20T00:30:09 < Ad0> it was about to crumble
2019-07-20T00:30:14 < Ad0> but then he returned
2019-07-20T00:30:36 < jadew> after the PC thing?
2019-07-20T00:30:39 < Ad0> yes
2019-07-20T00:30:43 < Ad0> it's dangerous
2019-07-20T00:30:58 < Ad0> once they get in, they are not going out
2019-07-20T00:31:00 < Cracki> it's now called social justice
2019-07-20T00:31:18 < Cracki> it's bolshevism
2019-07-20T00:31:43 < Cracki> they celebrate weakness and uselessness
2019-07-20T00:31:59 < Cracki> yes, I've read some nietzsche
2019-07-20T00:32:33 < Ad0> https://itsfoss.com/linux-code-of-conduct/
2019-07-20T00:32:58 < Ad0> SJWs is just another marxist tentacle
2019-07-20T00:33:45 < jadew> see, I think that's another danger right there
2019-07-20T00:33:50 < Cracki> commercial interests back feminism and social justice.
2019-07-20T00:33:54 < Cracki> it depresses wages.
2019-07-20T00:33:58 < jadew> social justice is great, as long as it's indeed justice
2019-07-20T00:34:02 < Ad0> https://twitter.com/coralineada/status/999683742145875969?lang=en
2019-07-20T00:34:12 < Cracki> the name is obviously a lie
2019-07-20T00:34:38 < Cracki> meritocracy is the good thing. they are the evil ones.
2019-07-20T00:34:58 < Cracki> "critical theory" is marxist BS too.
2019-07-20T00:35:06 < jadew> what I think the problem is these days, is that many ideas and names have been taken by people who don't trully stand for them
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2019-07-20T00:35:18 < karlp> heh, it's not a meritocracy :)
2019-07-20T00:35:26 < Cracki> their goal is to destroy all structure
2019-07-20T00:35:56 < Cracki> scratch "truly". they stand for the opposite. it's plain subversion.
2019-07-20T00:36:16 < Cracki> they invert meanings. they use 1984 as a manual.
2019-07-20T00:36:23 < Ad0> they coup the terms / names 
2019-07-20T00:36:47 < salcedo> https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd/pull/390
2019-07-20T00:37:09 < karlp> jadew: typescript sounds great, until you get  junioer developers writing it.
2019-07-20T00:37:20 < jadew> karlp, heh
2019-07-20T00:37:29 < karlp> and you get people who wrap up nice open js apis into strict rigid truncated limited apis in ts instead.
2019-07-20T00:37:43 < karlp> or, as veverak "it's not js, it's the js coders"
2019-07-20T00:38:10 < salcedo> the js culture is not a meritocracy?
2019-07-20T00:38:10 < jadew> I've been doing some really cool stuff with TS
2019-07-20T00:38:22 < jadew> it has solved lots of problems for me
2019-07-20T00:38:26 < karlp> salcedo: I was commenting on linux actually, 
2019-07-20T00:38:33 < salcedo> linux isn't a meritocracy?
2019-07-20T00:38:47 < jadew> salcedo, how could it be?
2019-07-20T00:38:59 < jadew> is linus the best programmer/person/whatever?
2019-07-20T00:39:10 < Cracki> wrong measure
2019-07-20T00:39:12 < Cracki> he's good
2019-07-20T00:39:20 < Cracki> and he demands contributions be good
2019-07-20T00:39:26 < salcedo> ^
2019-07-20T00:39:28 < Cracki> quality above feels
2019-07-20T00:39:28 < Ad0> he has a standard
2019-07-20T00:39:35 < jadew> doesn't make it a meritocracy tho
2019-07-20T00:39:38 < karlp> no, he demands contributions come from people hhe already trusts
2019-07-20T00:39:40 < Cracki> does too
2019-07-20T00:39:46 < Cracki> merit above all else
2019-07-20T00:39:49 < karlp> riiiight
2019-07-20T00:40:04 < salcedo> how does he gauge people he trusts? is it not by the quality of their contributions?
2019-07-20T00:40:11 < karlp> it's history.
2019-07-20T00:40:22 < karlp> it's as cliquey as any other large human project
2019-07-20T00:40:29 < jadew> that's better than trusting everyone tho
2019-07-20T00:40:37 < karlp> no-one said that
2019-07-20T00:40:43 < salcedo> but still essentially a meritocracy, the way i see it.
2019-07-20T00:40:49 < Cracki> trusting everyone is how that CoC got in
2019-07-20T00:41:00 < jadew> I mean, if you can't be arsed to check other people's work, it's best that he only goes with those he's acquainted with
2019-07-20T00:41:09 < karlp> kakimir: nice hip hop mix thanks
2019-07-20T00:41:10 < Ad0> a meritocracy is where you need to put in an effort to go  somewhere
2019-07-20T00:41:22 < salcedo> oh shit. effort. welp. i'm out.
2019-07-20T00:41:33 < Ad0> hehe
2019-07-20T00:41:50 < karlp> the threshold of merit required for new contributors is massively higher than for existing contributors
2019-07-20T00:41:55 < salcedo> instead of writing code, i'll write a kickass CoC that ensures nobody can challenge me based on my merits unless they want to get fired and put on a blacklist in tech industry for being a racist xenophobic bigot.
2019-07-20T00:42:06 < kakimir> CoC?
2019-07-20T00:42:20 < kakimir> code of conduict?
2019-07-20T00:42:21 < Cracki> lawfare
2019-07-20T00:42:26 < Cracki> except not laws
2019-07-20T00:42:26 < kakimir> what does it mean
2019-07-20T00:42:40 < Cracki> made up "guidelines" that are used to execute people
2019-07-20T00:42:46 < salcedo> kakimir: it's a disease
2019-07-20T00:42:48 < Cracki> ^
2019-07-20T00:43:10 < Cracki> CoCs result in soviet struggle sessions
2019-07-20T00:43:10 < kakimir> are you from across the pond?
2019-07-20T00:43:23 < salcedo> it's a psychological/spiritual disease that has afflicted FOSS, and tech in general.
2019-07-20T00:43:41 < Ad0> it's vague and like the new "community standards" etc, anyone they dont like can be kicked out
2019-07-20T00:44:17 < salcedo> there is a cure though.
2019-07-20T00:44:59 < salcedo> the cure = shut up and code
2019-07-20T00:46:08 < jadew> no, the cure is not to take it into acount and be natural
2019-07-20T00:46:18 < salcedo> yes that too
2019-07-20T00:46:37 < Ad0> "But meritocracy has consistently shown itself to mainly benefit those with privilege, to the exclusion of underrepresented people in technology." = shown itself to benefit smart people, to the exclusion of dumb people
2019-07-20T00:46:39 < salcedo> the disease is inconsequential and only stems from a small subset.
2019-07-20T00:47:21 < salcedo> industry is beginning to catch on that this disease is not helping in the long run.
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2019-07-20T00:48:20 < kakimir> karlp: just search "90's hip hop"
2019-07-20T00:48:54 < Ad0> that dude who got fired from google
2019-07-20T00:49:17 < Ad0> "diversity memo" lol
2019-07-20T00:49:41 < salcedo> disregard FAANG. they need to die.
2019-07-20T00:50:13 < salcedo> best way to ensure they die is to erase them from your reality.
2019-07-20T00:51:42 < karlp> kakimir: yeah, I know, it'
2019-07-20T00:51:47 < karlp> s just nice to have another suggestion sometimes,
2019-07-20T00:51:51 < karlp> don't always think of it much.
2019-07-20T00:51:57 < karlp> there was a bunch of crap too :)
2019-07-20T00:56:20 < zyp> aren't most CoCs just like «please behave like a decent human being»? is that so hard?
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2019-07-20T00:56:42 < jadew> zyp, not the PC infused ones
2019-07-20T00:57:07 < Ad0> zyp, they have a totally different standard for what's "decent behaviour"
2019-07-20T00:57:27 < Ad0> it means that you have to take all kinds of bullshit without critizising
2019-07-20T00:57:57 < zyp> how so? I haven't read any CoCs that I have any problems adhering to
2019-07-20T00:58:22 < Ad0> it's all wrapped in sugar
2019-07-20T00:58:38 < Ad0> it all looks like "hey that ain't so bad"
2019-07-20T00:58:59 < Ad0> but when they start applying it, that's when you see how bad it is lol
2019-07-20T00:59:47 < zyp> I don't think the CoC is the problem in that case, it's rather that it needs to be applied at all
2019-07-20T01:00:34 < jadew> zyp, why would a professional medium need a CoC to begin with?
2019-07-20T01:01:18 < jadew> people have had arguments since before they learned how to talk
2019-07-20T01:01:42 < jadew> if something is not appropriate in a particular environment, it's going to be made clear to you by the other people there
2019-07-20T01:01:49 < zyp> isn't that exactly why?
2019-07-20T01:02:25 < jadew> what makes you think a CoC is going to properly cover all the nuances of human interaction?
2019-07-20T01:02:48 < zyp> instead of having unproductive arguments about what's acceptable or not, you have a commonly agreed upon guideline that you can either adhere to or leave
2019-07-20T01:03:44 < jadew> so you get to live with bad terms, just because someone before you didn't see how they can be harmful?
2019-07-20T01:04:21 < jadew> what's the solution? let the company/community/whatever suffer the consequences of people leaving?
2019-07-20T01:04:26 < zyp> you get to live with terms, good or bad
2019-07-20T01:04:33 < jadew> that's hardly constructive
2019-07-20T01:04:42 < karlp> I'm with zyp, if you're against the CoCs you're just a lolrence whiner who thinks everything's horrible in the modern world
2019-07-20T01:04:47 < jadew> my point is that you don't need terms to regulate human interaction, we're pretty good at it
2019-07-20T01:04:47 < zyp> the solution? just follow the fucking CoC and avoid pointless conflict
2019-07-20T01:05:12 < jadew> aren't we avoiding conflict by default?
2019-07-20T01:05:14 < zyp> I disagree
2019-07-20T01:06:22 < jadew> also, in the case of an argument, I'd like another person to judge the situation based on his own morality, not based on some rules that were written without regard for that particular situation
2019-07-20T01:07:12 < jadew> morality is best enforced by the community, as it has been done since the beginning of the civilization
2019-07-20T01:07:47 < zyp> isn't it the community who decides on the contents of the CoC?
2019-07-20T01:07:54 < jadew> no
2019-07-20T01:07:59 < zyp> no?
2019-07-20T01:08:18 < jadew> like in the linux case, it was some pink hair chick that apparently a lot of the people from the community didn't like to begin with
2019-07-20T01:09:04 < salcedo> the squeaky wheel gets the grease
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2019-07-20T01:09:40 < zyp> jadew, who suggested it or who decided on it?
2019-07-20T01:09:43 < karlp> jadew: but everyone else _agreed_ she didn't decide it on her own
2019-07-20T01:09:50 < salcedo> i don't think people agreed
2019-07-20T01:10:09 < jadew> karlp, considering the ensuing outrage, I doubt anyone agreed to anything
2019-07-20T01:10:11 < karlp> jadew: "morality is best enforced by the community," <<= that's what a CoC is....
2019-07-20T01:10:24 < karlp> the outr4aged people were mostly in the peanut gallery
2019-07-20T01:10:28 < zyp> so she had the authority to decide on her own? that sounds unlikely
2019-07-20T01:10:32 < salcedo> i think they "agreed" because it was either accept it completely or they won't be able to pay their mortgages next month.
2019-07-20T01:10:38 < karlp> some of them were people who should have been ostracized long ago too
2019-07-20T01:10:42 < salcedo> and now walk on eggshells
2019-07-20T01:11:12 < jadew> zyp, regardless of how she got the authority, it wasn't drafted by EVERYONE
2019-07-20T01:11:16 < jadew> it was drafted by her
2019-07-20T01:11:26 < jadew> then linus signed it and cowardly left
2019-07-20T01:11:37 < zyp> drafting is not deciding
2019-07-20T01:12:17 < salcedo> you know those SSRI commercials from the 90's that would have green pastures and little fluffy clouds... and there would be these cartoon puff-ball people that made happy squeaky noises? those puff-ball people are society now. if you're not a puff-ball person too, the other puff-balls will start making strange noises until a giant machine tentacle swoops down from the sky and exterminates you.
2019-07-20T01:12:20 < zyp> and the way you describe it sounds like a failure in the decision making process, not in having a CoC itself
2019-07-20T01:13:00 < jadew> zyp, that's because it was, but failures in the decision making process are not uncommon
2019-07-20T01:13:05 < jadew> which is why a CoC is bad
2019-07-20T01:13:25 < zyp> I don't see how that follows
2019-07-20T01:13:28 < karlp> me either
2019-07-20T01:13:48 < zyp> unless you are arguing that having anything that needs to be decided upon is bad
2019-07-20T01:13:49 < jadew> you're relying on the people drafting it being able to predict every social situation and laying out universal rules
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2019-07-20T01:14:16 < zyp> I think you're overthinking it
2019-07-20T01:14:17 < jadew> I'm arguing that social interactions shouldn't be regulated like that
2019-07-20T01:14:19 < salcedo> jadew: if you don't merge my pull request, you're racist.
2019-07-20T01:14:59 < jadew> see, in this case I should be able to tell this guy to fuck off in the harshest way possible
2019-07-20T01:15:04 < jadew> that's a healthy feedback loop
2019-07-20T01:15:13 < salcedo> but we have a CoC, so you're wrong.
2019-07-20T01:15:34 < salcedo> and because you won't accept my shitty code that is a detriment to the project, i'm going to make sure you get banned from the project by enforcing CoC.
2019-07-20T01:17:10 < karlp> salcedo: that's compeltely bullshit
2019-07-20T01:18:01 < Ultrasauce> what an unbelievably stupid agenda to be stanning here
2019-07-20T01:21:16 < salcedo> karlp: it's a hypothetical concern.
2019-07-20T01:22:31 < zyp> jadew's argument kinda reads like «we don't need laws because people are capable of taking care of justice by themselves»
2019-07-20T01:23:09 < jadew> zyp, that's a good argument, but even in law there are many things which are left unregulated, especially because law can't cover them properly
2019-07-20T01:23:14 < salcedo> spi_init_master() is patriarchy. i shall submit a PR to rename it to spi_init_unicorn()
2019-07-20T01:23:15 < jadew> and most of them are social matters
2019-07-20T01:24:11 < zyp> yeah, and just like that a CoC doesn't need to cover every nuance either, people can use common sense when applying it
2019-07-20T01:24:49 < jadew> maybe I'm not seeing a good use case
2019-07-20T01:24:53 < zyp> either way, having a CoC sets a common baseline
2019-07-20T01:24:58 < jadew> got an example?
2019-07-20T01:25:11 < zyp> of what?
2019-07-20T01:25:36 < jadew> zyp, I understand your point, but my argument is that the baseline has already been set
2019-07-20T01:25:51 < jadew> and it's constantly being set, since before we could even talk
2019-07-20T01:26:02 < zyp> in that case, what's the harm in writing it down?
2019-07-20T01:26:04 < jadew> zyp, of a CoC rule that would be useful
2019-07-20T01:26:38 < zyp> how about something simple like «don't make insults»
2019-07-20T01:26:46 < jadew> zyp, the harm is that you might not write it down correctly and harm the wrong people, when it could have been avoided if it just wasn't there
2019-07-20T01:26:51 < salcedo> zyp: i think the argument jadew and others are trying to make is that the CoC is "loaded"
2019-07-20T01:26:57 < jadew> zyp, that's a useless rule
2019-07-20T01:27:18 < jadew> if someone insults you, you can take challenge them on that
2019-07-20T01:27:20 < zyp> salcedo, but we're not talking about «the CoC», we're talking about the concepts of CoCs in general
2019-07-20T01:27:40 < karlp> salcedo: no. it's not.
2019-07-20T01:28:06 < zyp> jadew, I think it's a perfectly reasonable rule
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2019-07-20T01:28:17 < jadew> zyp, but that's standard
2019-07-20T01:28:23 < jadew> you don't have to have it in writing
2019-07-20T01:28:43 < karlp> you do, because people had different interpretration of what was and wasn't "common courtesy"
2019-07-20T01:28:44 < jadew> if someone is constantly insulting people in a group, he's going to get his ass kicked out
2019-07-20T01:28:56 < Ultrasauce> its a good thing literally everyone operates within the same social context and moral frameworks
2019-07-20T01:29:11 < Ultrasauce> why am i engaging this fuck
2019-07-20T01:29:15  * karlp shrugs
2019-07-20T01:29:20 < zyp> haha
2019-07-20T01:29:25 < karlp> because we don't want the whole channel to fall to this crap
2019-07-20T01:29:29 < karlp> it's been rising
2019-07-20T01:29:35 < jadew> Ultrasauce, but since you did, are you pro or anti CoC? :)
2019-07-20T01:29:44 < Ultrasauce> i am anti whatever shit you're on about
2019-07-20T01:29:50 < zyp> I'm just killing time waiting to get tired enough to fall asleep
2019-07-20T01:29:56 < Ultrasauce> which may or may not be orthogonal to that actual question
2019-07-20T01:29:59 < mawk> read a book zyp 
2019-07-20T01:30:02 < mawk> you'll sleep better
2019-07-20T01:30:11 < karlp> I'm trying to work out why I can't create a 4tb partition on this usb drive
2019-07-20T01:30:12 < zyp> yeah, just bought one
2019-07-20T01:30:23 < jadew> I was actually doing some work, so this is keeping me from being productive
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2019-07-20T01:30:51 < jadew> anyway, my view is that if someone is a dick, he gets either corrected by his peers or kicked out of the group
2019-07-20T01:31:04 < jadew> you don't need anything in writing for that to happen
2019-07-20T01:31:11 < jadew> it's both effective and permissive when it has to be
2019-07-20T01:31:25 < salcedo> karlp: you are correct. the CoC itself is not loaded.
2019-07-20T01:31:40 < karlp> jadew: except... that wasn't ahppening.
2019-07-20T01:31:40 < jadew> so my final argument: why mess with something we're already doing so well?
2019-07-20T01:31:45 < karlp> it _wasn't_ working.
2019-07-20T01:31:52 < karlp> people were like, "this is normal"
2019-07-20T01:32:02 < karlp> others were like, "what?! the house is on fire!"
2019-07-20T01:32:11 < jadew> karlp, if it's not working, then that behaviour is acceptable for that group
2019-07-20T01:32:13 < jadew> and that's that
2019-07-20T01:32:50 < karlp> and we're back to "no, it's not in any way a meritocracy, it's just people that ar elike us"
2019-07-20T01:33:25 < salcedo> yes. a meritocracy... of "people like us" :)
2019-07-20T01:33:36 < jadew> in a 50-50 case, a discussion would take place
2019-07-20T01:33:38 < karlp> also, w.t.f https://imgur.com/a/SwJLFFP
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2019-07-20T01:33:51 < karlp> jadew: it's not a 5050 case, it's the existing group, vs the single newcomer
2019-07-20T01:33:52 < zyp> personally I've just acknowledged that people are assholes but the only one I can fix is myself
2019-07-20T01:34:16 < jadew> karlp, so the newcomer is the problem
2019-07-20T01:34:25 < karlp> riiiight
2019-07-20T01:34:29 < jadew> zyp, that's a good attitude
2019-07-20T01:35:03 < jadew> karlp, seriously, why should the group change for one guy? and even if it was in their interest... why should they?
2019-07-20T01:35:03 < zyp> yeah, but that doesn't mean I am against other people trying to fix the problem
2019-07-20T01:35:21 < jadew> also, if the situation is THAT bad
2019-07-20T01:35:34 < salcedo> karlp: hrm. thanks for pasting that.
2019-07-20T01:35:38 < jadew> then the group would lose lots of good people
2019-07-20T01:35:42 < jadew> and other groups would take them in
2019-07-20T01:35:54 < jadew> so the better group would survive
2019-07-20T01:36:04 < salcedo> i'm going to whip up a bit of python i think. to extract the .jpg from imgur links.
2019-07-20T01:36:14 < salcedo> because having to load a bunch of javascript is annoying
2019-07-20T01:36:22 < mawk> use the api salcedo 
2019-07-20T01:36:28 < mawk> don't parse js like that
2019-07-20T01:36:39 < salcedo> was going to use beautifulsoup
2019-07-20T01:36:47 < salcedo> is the api "open"... no account needed?
2019-07-20T01:36:48 < jadew> karlp, I think this is in line with my coding style
2019-07-20T01:36:55 < mawk> you need an account yes, but nothing to pay
2019-07-20T01:37:03 < jadew> if something is shit, I let it crash
2019-07-20T01:37:03 < salcedo> oh screw that. beautifulsoup it is
2019-07-20T01:37:36 < jadew> a CoC is the equivalent of catching exceptions and not handling them
2019-07-20T01:38:22 < Cracki> you mean throwing exceptions right at the beginning of main()
2019-07-20T01:38:38 < Ultrasauce> karlp, mbr instead of gpt?
2019-07-20T01:38:49 < Cracki> salcedo, BS is fine, lxml for proper xml works too
2019-07-20T01:39:02 < Cracki> does BS have xpath or something? haven't used it in a decade
2019-07-20T01:39:11 < salcedo> BS can use lxml
2019-07-20T01:39:16 < salcedo> i don't think it does by default
2019-07-20T01:39:27 < mawk> no but it asks explicitely for you to choose a parser
2019-07-20T01:39:34 < mawk> so it's easy to specify lxml
2019-07-20T01:39:41 < mawk> as easy as to specify anything else
2019-07-20T01:39:45 < Cracki> btw, imgur urls can be rewritten to get the direct image... I think
2019-07-20T01:39:50 < Cracki> so no scraping needed
2019-07-20T01:39:52 < mawk> yeah if you know the extension
2019-07-20T01:39:53 < salcedo> are you sure? i haven't used it in a while either, doesn't it default to xml if you don't specify a parser?
2019-07-20T01:39:55 < mawk> but can try a few
2019-07-20T01:40:05 < mawk> it defaults to something yes salcedo , but spits out a warning
2019-07-20T01:40:10 < salcedo> ah
2019-07-20T01:40:12 < mawk> or maybe an error now in latest versions
2019-07-20T01:40:24 < salcedo> i vaguely recall said warning in some previous projects
2019-07-20T01:40:55 < salcedo> <link rel="image_src" href="https://i.imgur.com/pfAf3Bk.jpg"/>
2019-07-20T01:41:35 < salcedo> i think what i'll do is make this into a weechat script that rewrites imgur to the image_src
2019-07-20T01:41:51 < mawk> yeah if it's not an album
2019-07-20T01:42:08 < mawk> anyway people should like the img directly; that's what I always do at least
2019-07-20T01:42:19 < salcedo> yea. because f* JS
2019-07-20T01:42:24 < salcedo> and imgur's data harvesting
2019-07-20T01:42:45 < jadew> you think they're not harvesting your data when you access the image directly?
2019-07-20T01:42:51 < salcedo> of course they are
2019-07-20T01:43:06 < salcedo> but not to the extent of running a bunch of malicious code
2019-07-20T01:43:10 < mawk> they can only harvest the http headers and stuff when you access the image directly
2019-07-20T01:43:26 < mawk> but with viewing the html page they can fingerprint you through their js code, display ads, etc
2019-07-20T01:43:42 < salcedo> which is bad. but i have another reason for it.
2019-07-20T01:43:55 < salcedo> i'm on LTE as my primary internet.
2019-07-20T01:44:04 < salcedo> so i do anything and everything to reduce bandwidth
2019-07-20T01:44:10 < salcedo> javascript is taint
2019-07-20T01:44:19 < jadew> salcedo, once you load one page, you're fine
2019-07-20T01:44:26 < jadew> the js files will be served from cache
2019-07-20T01:44:33 < salcedo> it's not the js files that are the problem
2019-07-20T01:44:40 < salcedo> it's what the js does
2019-07-20T01:45:00 < Cracki> just wrap it in tin foil
2019-07-20T01:45:01 < salcedo> which is makes 100's of requests to a bunch of third parties and apis and shit.
2019-07-20T01:45:17 < salcedo> 90% of it has nothing to do with the page itself
2019-07-20T01:45:40 < salcedo> for example
2019-07-20T01:46:02 < salcedo> that imgur link is 800 lines of html that loads other images, javascript, css, etc. the js in turn calls out to even more shit.
2019-07-20T01:46:07 < karlp> Ultrasauce: gpt apparently, it reformatted ok as gpt, but... :)
2019-07-20T01:46:09 < karlp> no idea.
2019-07-20T01:46:10 < salcedo> 1 line of that 800 is a link to the image
2019-07-20T01:47:41 < karlp> (if you go to the jpk, you miss the comments/captions)
2019-07-20T01:48:22 < salcedo> damn. i'll miss out on "hurr dur cats" :)
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2019-07-20T01:51:09 < salcedo> i think i should get an e-reader
2019-07-20T01:51:33 < salcedo> getting too cumbersome switching back and forth between my code and ref manual :/
2019-07-20T01:51:48 < Cracki> have you tried moar displays
2019-07-20T01:52:06 < salcedo> too minimalist fo dat!
2019-07-20T01:52:20 < jadew> a projector then
2019-07-20T01:52:45 < Cracki> eink tapestry
2019-07-20T01:52:55 < salcedo> j/k i have another display
2019-07-20T01:53:00 < Cracki> neuralink shoved into your eye
2019-07-20T01:53:07 < salcedo> neuralink ftw
2019-07-20T01:53:23 < jadew> Cracki, I've been waiting for eink tapestry for years
2019-07-20T01:53:28 < Cracki> all those double digit IQs replying to neuralink's tweets
2019-07-20T01:53:30 < Laurenceb> Iran btfoing the britbongs
2019-07-20T01:53:31 < jadew> I'm sure it will become a reality at some point
2019-07-20T01:53:40 < salcedo> it was like a $50 monitor and is terrible to look at for reading things.
2019-07-20T01:54:03 < Cracki> all I know about eink is that it needs a temperature sensor and a boost converter
2019-07-20T01:54:16 < jadew> Laurenceb, btfoing?
2019-07-20T01:54:16 < salcedo> eink is pretty complicated
2019-07-20T01:54:48 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49053383
2019-07-20T01:55:17 < Cracki> kek the brits are gonna lose all their gold again if they make a war out of this
2019-07-20T01:55:21 < salcedo> cool. another iran false flag.
2019-07-20T01:55:32 < Cracki> seizing a tanker is quite benign
2019-07-20T01:55:42 < Cracki> false flags are when the mossad is involved
2019-07-20T01:55:57 < Cracki> syria knows they love to use gas
2019-07-20T02:07:41 < effractur> `
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2019-07-20T02:36:30 < Cracki> grandfather lynx judges you for the dyed ear tufts https://farm1.static.flickr.com/30/96438075_c5828952cb_b.jpg
2019-07-20T02:41:51 < jadew> grr... youtube's "please confirm if you're still watching" crap is ruining my music
2019-07-20T02:43:08 < ds2> just forget youtube. they are not worth it.
2019-07-20T02:43:16 < ds2> it is nothing but a platform for shovelling ads
2019-07-20T02:43:28 < jadew> no ads here :D
2019-07-20T02:44:02 < jadew> but yeah, I know what you mean
2019-07-20T02:44:18 < jadew> when I'm watching on my phone I can't believe it's worse than TV
2019-07-20T02:46:55 < ds2> you have drug pushers... google is just another drug pusher...they call it ads but a pusher is a pusher and the best way to deal with them is to say NO
2019-07-20T02:49:21 < englishman> what book zyp
2019-07-20T03:06:06 < kakimir> is there pills that make my peepee bigger?
2019-07-20T03:07:21 < Cracki> https://www.8satire.com/florida-man-successfully-receives-penis-transplant-horse/
2019-07-20T03:08:22 < Cracki> or maybe something less credible: https://worldnewsdailyreport.com/taiwanese-millionaire-successfully-gets-transplanted-12-inch-long-black-mans-penis/
2019-07-20T03:09:13 < jadew> "lifelong dream" lol
2019-07-20T03:10:28 < Cracki> some previous-wave feminist once compared white women's desire for black phallus with a desire to mate with beasts
2019-07-20T03:11:01 < Cracki> I admire her balls for saying that on camera
2019-07-20T03:11:48 < jadew> in my birth town we have one black dude
2019-07-20T03:12:00 < jadew> his kids are white, but they look like him
2019-07-20T03:12:12 < Cracki> so, uh, youTUBE cramming things down people's throats
2019-07-20T03:12:22 < Cracki> how can they be white
2019-07-20T03:12:32 < jadew> don't know... it's baffling
2019-07-20T03:12:44 < Cracki> how's the physiognomy?
2019-07-20T03:13:06 < kakimir> maybe he is not 100% black
2019-07-20T03:13:10 < Cracki> scratch that, do they have curly black hair?
2019-07-20T03:13:35 < jadew> they look like him, so I can only assume our DNA has more white than he has black
2019-07-20T03:13:35 < Cracki> most murican blacks are diluted. these days only europeans get to see pure africans.
2019-07-20T03:13:42 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, curly hair
2019-07-20T03:13:46 < jadew> both of them
2019-07-20T03:13:50 < Cracki> they're africans hten
2019-07-20T03:15:30 < jadew> anyway, regarding penis enlargement, I've seen a documentary once and apparently there's only one way
2019-07-20T03:16:00 < jadew> there's a thing holding it in place, just like that piece of skin under the tongue
2019-07-20T03:16:20 < jadew> that thing is somewhere around the belly button area and it's an easy surgery to cut it
2019-07-20T03:16:45 < jadew> they cut that thing and suddenly you have more dick
2019-07-20T03:17:15 < jadew> but you have to keep it extended (with a device that attaches to the leg) for an entire year, so it heals like that
2019-07-20T03:17:22 < jadew> during this time you can't have sex or masturbate :)
2019-07-20T03:17:31 < jadew> so... it's a big toll
2019-07-20T03:17:43 < Cracki> uh
2019-07-20T03:18:04 < Cracki> vaginal reduction is probably easier
2019-07-20T03:18:12 < jadew> lol
2019-07-20T03:18:49 < jadew> I heard something about that too (and I have a deja-vu, so I probably mentioned it before in here)
2019-07-20T03:19:13 < Cracki> https://xpouzar.com/study-concludes-bigger-than-average-penis-is-a-disability-and-its-associated-with-low-mental-capacity/
2019-07-20T03:19:15 < jadew> apparently (at least in the past), when a woman was birthing naturally, they had to cut the vagina a bit, to make room for the kid
2019-07-20T03:19:41 < jadew> and when sewing her back on, they were making it tighter
2019-07-20T03:19:41 < Cracki> humans have evolved to be impossible to get born
2019-07-20T03:20:18 < jadew> lol @ the link
2019-07-20T03:23:43 < jadew> I have a conundrum
2019-07-20T03:23:47 < Cracki> dick -> boobies -> old geography teacher's pendulum knockers -> pendulum (drum and bass)
2019-07-20T03:24:16 < Cracki> I also remember seeing a BDSM video where the master literally nails his slave's nippled to a board
2019-07-20T03:24:43 < jadew> jeez...
2019-07-20T03:25:03 < Cracki> mark of a dying civilization :P
2019-07-20T03:25:04 < jadew> on the other hand, I remember one with a guy cutting his dick
2019-07-20T03:25:17 < jadew> and piercing it with a nail
2019-07-20T03:25:33 < Cracki> that is def a mark of a dying civilization. I'm sure the romans did that before their fall.
2019-07-20T03:26:21 < jadew> maybe crazy people always existed
2019-07-20T03:28:24 < Cracki> I'm excited for when deep learning and neuralink combine to produce exactly the music you like in the moment
2019-07-20T03:28:33 < Cracki> shit's dissonant? change it.
2019-07-20T03:29:15 < jadew> I can imagine lots of suicides happening because of that
2019-07-20T03:29:32 < jadew> as well as lots of poor decisions
2019-07-20T03:29:34 < Cracki> recently some company threw that "fake news generator" architecture called GPT-2 against tons of source code on github. out comes amazing autocompletion that is context-aware to a mindblowing degree
2019-07-20T03:29:59 < jadew> what?
2019-07-20T03:30:01 < Cracki> yes.
2019-07-20T03:30:13 < Cracki> throw your keyboard away. all you need is tab.
2019-07-20T03:30:20 < jadew> heh
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2019-07-20T03:30:43 < Cracki> it can model context well enough to keep track of identifiers' types
2019-07-20T03:31:50 < Cracki> https://twitter.com/karpathy/status/1151887984691576833
2019-07-20T03:32:29 < Cracki> apparently you can even write the comment and then it does what you said it should
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2019-07-20T03:33:04 < jadew> that's pretty cool
2019-07-20T03:33:06 < Cracki> THAT is the shit that'll get us the Hard Takeoff of AI
2019-07-20T03:33:16 < Cracki> no more single letter typing
2019-07-20T03:33:47 < Cracki> combine with neuralink's "read/write" capability you can hammer out code at mindboggling rates
2019-07-20T03:34:14 < Cracki> nothing prevents you from pipelining either, work on multiple sites at once
2019-07-20T03:34:22 < Cracki> (sites in code)
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2019-07-20T03:35:03 < jadew> I didn't know about neuralink
2019-07-20T03:35:19 < jadew> that sounds like great technology, I'm glad someone is putting money into it
2019-07-20T03:35:24 < Cracki> their video from tue/wed is recommended. skip to 1:30:00
2019-07-20T03:37:12 < jadew> I'll wait for the variant that doesn't have to be implanted into my brain
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2019-07-20T03:37:21 < Cracki> nothing else will cut it
2019-07-20T03:37:29 < Cracki> that's a physics constraint
2019-07-20T03:38:13 < Cracki> you can maybe implant further from the brain, such as in spinal nerves or even further, but that won't be as useful
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2019-07-20T03:45:46 < jadew> I'd only implant it in my brain if it was able to take me places
2019-07-20T03:45:56 < jadew> as opposed to just understanding what I want
2019-07-20T03:46:43 < jadew> for example, if it was able to paint a picture in my mind
2019-07-20T03:50:27 < Cracki> they'll do that definitely
2019-07-20T03:51:14 < jadew> I think that if this works, it will be the first step towards immortality for the human race
2019-07-20T03:51:15 < Cracki> one target is improving on cochlear implants and digital retinal implants
2019-07-20T03:51:42 < jadew> could restore sight to the blind... damn
2019-07-20T03:51:50 < Cracki> or bridging spinal damage and restoring some tactile sensation
2019-07-20T03:52:25 < Cracki> it's like bodge wires
2019-07-20T03:52:35 < Cracki> or a logic analyzer
2019-07-20T03:53:23 < Cracki> paper, if you're a paper kinda guy: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/07/17/703801.full.pdf
2019-07-20T03:56:02 < Cracki> tldr: sewing machine, dozens of electrodes per inserted thread, electronics are passive and wireless (no usb port)
2019-07-20T03:56:21 < Cracki> and elon musk said something about a monkey
2019-07-20T03:56:45 < rajkosto> whos gonna fold the paper ? vincent squingilli ?
2019-07-20T03:57:02 < Cracki> roll it up and smoke it
2019-07-20T03:58:34 < jadew> Cracki, looks like that rat in the paper you linked has an USB-C port in his head lol
2019-07-20T03:58:43 < Cracki> yes, prototype
2019-07-20T03:58:57 < Cracki> now everyone is gonna want one too!
2019-07-20T03:59:17 < jadew> yeah, it looks so fancy
2019-07-20T03:59:55 < Cracki> looks make:r grade, that pcb breakout
2019-07-20T04:01:53 < jadew> that's the one rat that didn't end up retarded after the implant
2019-07-20T04:02:18 < rajkosto> Deep TabNine can even do the impossible and remember C++ variadic forwarding syntax:
2019-07-20T04:06:53 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2019-07-20T04:06:56 < Laurenceb> https://cdn.shortpixel.ai/client/q_glossy,ret_img,w_900/https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/manspreadingf.jpg
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2019-07-20T04:07:51 < Laurenceb> it comes to the UK
2019-07-20T04:10:10 < Cracki> secure beneath the watchful eye
2019-07-20T04:10:12 < jadew> Cracki, you know what would have been a great trick? if they kept the auto-driving feature of the tesla secret until now and when revealing neuralink, they showed that mouse with the USB-C in his head, connected to the car and the car doing a lateral parking, or just driving around the city :D
2019-07-20T04:10:27 < Cracki> lol
2019-07-20T04:12:05 < jadew> and he could have made the following comment: "turns out... you don't need much of a brain to drive a car..."
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2019-07-20T04:14:35 < Laurenceb> you ladyboy
2019-07-20T04:14:35 < Laurenceb> me furry rabbit from alice in wonderland. I adopt welsh now because they like furry animal so I am welsh. why are you racist to my country when thailand is culture and you have almost no culture? why?
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2019-07-20T06:21:51 < Thorn> has anyone used sub-GHz FEM chips?
2019-07-20T06:23:20 < Thorn> such as https://www.qorvo.com/products/p/RF6569
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2019-07-20T07:09:53 < englishman> what was qorvo's previous name
2019-07-20T07:09:57 < englishman> it was something big
2019-07-20T07:10:22 < englishman> RFMD
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2019-07-20T07:12:48 < englishman> i think i used them in some prototypes nothing serious
2019-07-20T07:24:34 < salcedo> yea i am starting to get my head around libopencm3
2019-07-20T07:25:28 < salcedo> it was a little odd because the nucleo i chose is not very common
2019-07-20T07:26:10 < salcedo> went with l496zg because it had all kinds of crap i'll probably never use, but gives me many options to experiment with
2019-07-20T07:51:35 < Thorn> englishman: did you simulate it? use a VNA? 
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2019-07-20T12:25:58 < jadew> I need better test equipment
2019-07-20T12:36:40 < antto> add bacon to it
2019-07-20T12:36:50 < antto> everything's better with BACON
2019-07-20T12:37:04 < antto> my cat can confirm
2019-07-20T12:37:15 < jadew> no need to, found another piece of gear that can do what I want - surprisingly well, I may add
2019-07-20T12:37:32 < antto> it must have added bacon then
2019-07-20T12:37:42 < jadew> probably
2019-07-20T12:41:53 < jadew> I'll have to calibrate it again and I think I'll use it like that more
2019-07-20T12:42:32 < antto> my cat could callibrate teh bacon
2019-07-20T12:44:20 < jadew> so what I did was use the VNA I got for $250 as a CW sig gen, and it seems to be really good at it
2019-07-20T12:44:43 < jadew> which makes sense, cuz it's basically a synthesized sweeper
2019-07-20T12:45:18 < jadew> second harmonic sits at -43 dBc, so it's pretty decent
2019-07-20T12:52:36 < jadew> -30 dBm to ~+13 dBm across the entire frequency range \o/
2019-07-20T13:14:10 < jadew> and now I remember what I forgot put on yesterday's order :/
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2019-07-20T14:58:54 < aandrew> jadew: yeah, I am looking around for a much better scope
2019-07-20T14:59:12 < aandrew> need at least 500MHz bandwidth, 4ch preferred
2019-07-20T14:59:34 < aandrew> there are some wince based lecroys in the USD$2500 range that would work
2019-07-20T15:00:15 < aandrew> a good (200MHz) signal generator, 3+GHz VNA and specan would be nice too
2019-07-20T15:06:01 < jadew> aandrew, be careful with the lecroys, I've seen some videos and they seemed lacking in features
2019-07-20T15:06:11 < jadew> but maybe the reviewer didn't know what he was doing
2019-07-20T15:06:46 < jadew> 200 MHz AWG might get expensive
2019-07-20T15:21:56 < Cracki> how are AWGs made? isn't that _almost_ standard video tech (RAMDAC)?
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2019-07-20T15:26:02 < aandrew> jadew: I love lecroy scopes
2019-07-20T15:26:18 < jadew> Cracki, pretty much, yeah
2019-07-20T15:26:29 < aandrew> Cracki: pretty much digital synthesis yes
2019-07-20T15:26:36 < aandrew> 10/15Mhz ones are commonplace
2019-07-20T15:26:48 < aandrew> I actually have a erasynth mini coming soonish
2019-07-20T15:26:56 < Cracki> plus all that analog stuff to turn ADC output into something smooth and with some drive strength
2019-07-20T15:27:07 < aandrew> hoping to be able to generate FM with it, although the spec on the signal injection is weaksauce
2019-07-20T15:27:32 < aandrew> I've also got a limesdr mini but it's godawful to try to get it to do anything
2019-07-20T15:27:36 < jadew> aandrew, the one TSP reviewed?
2019-07-20T15:27:57 < jadew> the output looked awful IMO
2019-07-20T15:28:07 < jadew> and was prone to interference
2019-07-20T15:28:34 < jadew> it was basically picking up shit from his recording equipment and outputting it IIRC
2019-07-20T15:29:08 < jadew> I'd try to get the limesdr to work if I were you
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2019-07-20T15:31:56 < jadew> aandrew, why don't you get a proper sig gen instead?
2019-07-20T15:32:12 < jadew> an older HP model
2019-07-20T15:35:25 < aandrew> jadew: that's what I want actually
2019-07-20T15:37:27 < jadew> the E443X series is more expensive these days, but the older ones are still good
2019-07-20T15:38:08 < aandrew> place I contract at in detroit has an old 8647 I'd love to get
2019-07-20T15:38:26 < jadew> right, I had my eyes on those models too for a while
2019-07-20T15:38:58 < jadew> I eventually scored an E443X and forgot about it, but they do seem like good generators
2019-07-20T15:39:06 < aandrew> they're still mega$ though, $500+
2019-07-20T15:39:24 < jadew> yeah, the price hasn't changed in years
2019-07-20T15:40:01 < aandrew> the e443s are expensive too
2019-07-20T15:40:15 < aandrew> I just need to accept that this shit's expensive becuase it's good and keep my eyes open
2019-07-20T15:40:29 < jadew> I did a proof of concept sig gen at one point (I wanted to make one like that ERA synth), but without the crappy output
2019-07-20T15:40:40 < jadew> aandrew, yeah
2019-07-20T15:41:10 < jadew> mine is an E4421B, it's very nice
2019-07-20T15:41:44 < jadew> one thing you notice between these new ones and the old ones is that the attenuators switch faster (and they don't click)
2019-07-20T15:42:01 < jadew> the fast switching is cool, for automated testing
2019-07-20T15:43:18 < aandrew> nice
2019-07-20T15:43:35 < aandrew> I was looking at the pocketvna and minivna but I might go a different route there
2019-07-20T15:44:15 < jadew> never tried or seriously looked into them, so I don't know what to say about those
2019-07-20T15:44:36 < jadew> you could get an older HP VNA at bargain prices
2019-07-20T15:45:00 < aandrew> thing is anything I need a VNA for needs to work well at 2.4GHz
2019-07-20T15:45:10 < aandrew> cheap VNAs all crap out around 1.xGHz
2019-07-20T15:45:31 < aandrew> pocketvna and minivna both compete and are almost identical in specs and price
2019-07-20T15:45:48 < aandrew> both run very warm and lots of people say you need to baby them to get reliable results which is understandable
2019-07-20T15:45:49 < jadew> the VNA I was talking about earlier, I got it for $250 + shipping
2019-07-20T15:45:56 < jadew> but it was broken
2019-07-20T15:46:04 < aandrew> I was looking at a few on ali (the single board ones)
2019-07-20T15:46:07 < jadew> had a missing cable and a missing attenutator
2019-07-20T15:46:11 < aandrew> I *think* I only need 2 port
2019-07-20T15:46:30 < jadew> well, if you want to go above 2 ports, you'll have to prepare a lot of dough
2019-07-20T15:46:37 < aandrew> yes
2019-07-20T15:47:00 < aandrew> the one I was looking at building was 4 port and used an interesting directional coupler idea using a length of coax
2019-07-20T15:47:13 < jadew> you can do multiple port experiments on 2 port VNAs too
2019-07-20T15:47:17 < jadew> it just takes longer
2019-07-20T15:47:22 < aandrew> http://hforsten.com/improved-homemade-vna.html
2019-07-20T15:47:27 < jadew> regarding the temperature - that's normal for RF stuff
2019-07-20T15:47:41 < jadew> especially for small stuff
2019-07-20T15:48:06 < jadew> right, I saw that before
2019-07-20T15:48:17 < jadew> looks interesting
2019-07-20T16:00:28 < aandrew> yep. I'm thinking of building that specific one to start
2019-07-20T16:00:34 < aandrew> although I may end up lost in calibration land if I do that
2019-07-20T16:00:48 < aandrew> I can always bring it to detroit and use their expensive VNA to compare
2019-07-20T16:01:22 < jadew> I'd like to see that too
2019-07-20T16:01:43 < aandrew> I also really like the idea of having the couplers completely separate from the measurement board, as it lets me replace them with expensive ones as time and money and necessity permit
2019-07-20T16:02:27 < jadew> yeah, that's not bad
2019-07-20T16:02:46 < jadew> but to me, it looks like an expensive project
2019-07-20T16:03:07 < jadew> and if you only need a VNA, you might be better off just buying a VNA
2019-07-20T16:04:03 < aandrew> yes it would not be a cheap project
2019-07-20T16:05:54 < aandrew> so I'm sending my daughter to bucharest in about 2 weeks
2019-07-20T16:06:09 < jadew> you're not coming?
2019-07-20T16:06:15 < aandrew> my niece has been visiting for a month, they're both going back in about 2 weeks and then daughter coming back in about a month
2019-07-20T16:06:19 < aandrew> no not this time
2019-07-20T16:09:51 < jadew> when you do, let me know
2019-07-20T16:10:03 < aandrew> yeah for sure
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2019-07-20T16:11:47 < jadew> I'll give you a tour of my lab :P
2019-07-20T16:12:26 < aandrew> that'd be sweet. from the chats you're doing some cool stuff
2019-07-20T16:12:36 < aandrew> I need time to work on my own projects but working for others pays so damn well
2019-07-20T16:13:45 < jadew> I know what you mean
2019-07-20T16:14:15 < jadew> my goal is to make working for myself at least as proffitable
2019-07-20T16:14:50 < jadew> but the reality is that if it was even half as profitable, it would still be enough for me not to ever touch someone else's stuff
2019-07-20T16:15:04 < aandrew> heh
2019-07-20T16:15:33 < aandrew> my dream is to cook up something others want and will pay me for. small scale mfg of my own boards/designs so I have some residual income
2019-07-20T16:16:01 < aandrew> I like working on other people's shit, they finance the experiments and pay me to learn, then I can turn around with that knowledge and profit
2019-07-20T16:16:45 < jadew> aandrew, that's my plan too, but I think I'm missing something, so far I haven't had much success
2019-07-20T16:17:07 < Cracki> my boss does the same. he actively has to go trolling for customers.
2019-07-20T16:17:08 < aandrew> dongs is doing pretty good with that track I think. englishman too I think
2019-07-20T16:17:30 < Cracki> using business cards like confetti works too.
2019-07-20T16:17:55 < jadew> I should probably make a business card too
2019-07-20T16:18:14 < Cracki> forget consumers. small and large companies that "need something done" are everywhere
2019-07-20T16:18:22 < aandrew> I think I've needed a business card a half dozen times in the last 13 years
2019-07-20T16:18:40 < aandrew> get 500 for $20 whenever it comes up on vistaprint or whatever and never think of it again
2019-07-20T16:18:46 < Cracki> if it's cheaper to hand the task off to you compared to hiring an engineer full time, they'll call
2019-07-20T16:19:02 < aandrew> Cracki: yes, but I want to sell them something other than my time. that's what I've been doing for the last decade or so
2019-07-20T16:19:23 < aandrew> it is very rewarding financially but time intensive
2019-07-20T16:19:37 < jadew> yeah, I have the same goals
2019-07-20T16:19:39 < Cracki> get "commissioned" to have some "fixed" income, then spin off whatever they make you do as your own product.
2019-07-20T16:19:58 < Cracki> change it a little so the teacher doesn't notice
2019-07-20T16:20:00 < aandrew> yes, I actively try to get retainer contracts
2019-07-20T16:20:04 < aandrew> so far has only worked once
2019-07-20T16:20:16 < Cracki> I don't even mean retainer. just projects.
2019-07-20T16:20:25 < aandrew> well that's the problem
2019-07-20T16:20:38 < aandrew> I'm hired by company to help design $x. that $x is now theirs, not mine
2019-07-20T16:20:40 < Cracki> they want something particular for just them, but you can generalize that and make a product from it
2019-07-20T16:20:56 < aandrew> I haven't been able to have company buy $x from me, which would make $x mine and able to resell
2019-07-20T16:20:57 < Cracki> you think that company is the only one in their market?
2019-07-20T16:21:12 < aandrew> Cracki: oh I hear you
2019-07-20T16:21:16 < Cracki> scope out their competitors, or whoever makes "complementary" goods.
2019-07-20T16:21:40 < aandrew> I worked at this company 7y ago on a project. then worked for their direct competitor for 2.5y. now I'm working with them again, and in the meantime I work with another competitor 
2019-07-20T16:21:48 < Cracki> if you're doing a house visit, chat up people 1:1. they'll open up and tell you things...
2019-07-20T16:21:54 < aandrew> it's all legit, I don't share info or anything like that, but it's funny
2019-07-20T16:22:17 < aandrew> Cracki: yep I've been doing this for about a decade. I'm pretty good at the social/tech end of it
2019-07-20T16:22:53 < Cracki> companies often have no clue what they could find a use for. lowly factory floor workers (anyone below decision makers) have tons of unheard ideas... tons of useless ones for sure
2019-07-20T16:22:58 < Cracki> ;)
2019-07-20T16:23:34 < aandrew> yep
2019-07-20T16:23:36 < jadew> yeah, I've heard lots of bad ideas too
2019-07-20T16:23:42 < aandrew> that's one of my tactics in fact that I learned when I worked for the man
2019-07-20T16:23:48 < aandrew> talk to the guys on the floor. they know the shit
2019-07-20T16:23:50 < Cracki> or get a slice of the make:r market. pick a random IC, make a breakout for it, and a shoddy little arduino lib
2019-07-20T16:23:57 < aandrew> they know what breaks in the current stuff and what would make their jobs 10x easier
2019-07-20T16:24:16 < aandrew> then take those ideas and implement them in new products. instant friends with the people who actually do the work
2019-07-20T16:24:26 < Cracki> ;)
2019-07-20T16:24:39 < Cracki> such situations indicate poor management structures in those companies
2019-07-20T16:25:20 < Cracki> you could rat them out to headhunting agencies too. maybe they don't even know yet that they need new managers.
2019-07-20T16:27:03 < aandrew> lol kicad nightly -- still doesn't do the right thing for osx gestures
2019-07-20T16:27:20 < jadew> aandrew, I'm using a january version
2019-07-20T16:27:29 < jadew> the current nightly is seriously broken
2019-07-20T16:27:32 < Cracki> I think it'd be insightful to chat up some corner store/bodega owners. they know what people come for, and what they leave with, and what has the margins
2019-07-20T16:27:34 < jadew> when I click a footprint it centers it
2019-07-20T16:27:46 < Cracki> heh
2019-07-20T16:28:03 < jadew> Cracki, don't know how many people would give you that information
2019-07-20T16:28:19 < aandrew> Cracki: I don't think there's a bodega anywhere near me that sells electronics
2019-07-20T16:28:26 < Cracki> that's the point
2019-07-20T16:28:30 < Cracki> electronics are like candy
2019-07-20T16:28:35 < jadew> ah, for electronics
2019-07-20T16:28:36 < aandrew> jadew: still -- two finger move should give me panning in both axes, not zoom in out
2019-07-20T16:28:45 < aandrew> shift-2finger pans but only up/down. ugh
2019-07-20T16:28:50 < Cracki> bodegas *generate* demand/desire
2019-07-20T16:29:00 < Cracki> you aren't going to a corner store because you want a lollipop
2019-07-20T16:29:05 < Cracki> but you're gonna leave with one
2019-07-20T16:29:41 < englishman> aandrew: what track
2019-07-20T16:29:49 < Cracki> even grocery stores do it. never enter one with a kid because the kid will want all the sweets they stash near the registers
2019-07-20T16:30:09 < aandrew> englishman: hm?
2019-07-20T16:30:13 < jadew> Cracki, so make sweets for engineers? :)
2019-07-20T16:30:19 < Cracki> yes. that's what arduinos are.
2019-07-20T16:30:30 < Cracki> it's junkfood.
2019-07-20T16:30:30 < aandrew> oh the track of having something you designed made/sold to generate some passive-ish income
2019-07-20T16:31:12 < Cracki> if you were targeting consumers, you'd be expected to make plastic enclosures for everything
2019-07-20T16:31:32 < englishman> oh
2019-07-20T16:31:47 < englishman> I don't really do that anymore
2019-07-20T16:32:00 < Cracki> if you expect naked PCBs to sell, that targets makers and engineering that can embed "off-the-shelf" modules
2019-07-20T16:32:23 < jadew> Cracki, right, enclosures are one of the most difficult part of the design IMO
2019-07-20T16:32:24 < salcedo> there is a middle-ground
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2019-07-20T16:32:40 < jadew> I have a really cool one designed (and almost done), but the board inside is not ready yet
2019-07-20T16:32:42 < Cracki> you know those chinese stlink clones?
2019-07-20T16:32:52 < Cracki> those are standard "usb thumb drive" shells
2019-07-20T16:32:57 < salcedo> i'm building a lora communicator so i can replace my phone
2019-07-20T16:33:21 < Cracki> the chinese repurpose enclosures/cases/shells for anything. it just means you have to design for it.
2019-07-20T16:33:28 < jadew> Cracki, even standard shells have to be customized
2019-07-20T16:33:32 < salcedo> the design i have in my head will have 2 pcbs sandwiched together
2019-07-20T16:33:33 < Cracki> a little
2019-07-20T16:33:42 < salcedo> screw plastic enclosures
2019-07-20T16:33:55 < Cracki> seen that "dso203/213" mini handheld scope with 8-15 MHz bw? that used to be an mp4 player
2019-07-20T16:34:20 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, but that looks just ugly
2019-07-20T16:34:21 < Cracki> all they have to do is order shells without any markings on them (so it doesn't say play/rewind), and put all the widgets in the same places
2019-07-20T16:34:35 < Cracki> point is, you don't have to design your own enclosures
2019-07-20T16:34:55 < jadew> that's true
2019-07-20T16:35:12 < salcedo> the real challenge is putting an electronics manufacturing lab into a vehicle that you're also living out of
2019-07-20T16:35:18 < Cracki> or outsource the enclosure design
2019-07-20T16:35:20 < salcedo> i hope i can make it work
2019-07-20T16:35:32 < Cracki> some simple sheet metal design can be done in a day in autodesk
2019-07-20T16:35:52 < Cracki> then get a few quotes from local metal shops that can plasma cut or something
2019-07-20T16:36:17 < salcedo> there will always be an elysium class with disposable income. if you make trinkets for them, you can thrive.
2019-07-20T16:36:24 < Cracki> salcedo, buy an old bus maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambulance_bus
2019-07-20T16:36:30 < salcedo> hehe
2019-07-20T16:36:32 < Cracki> if you have half a million bucks to spare
2019-07-20T16:36:34 < salcedo> i have a cargo van currently.
2019-07-20T16:36:38 < salcedo> it cost me $2500
2019-07-20T16:37:03 < salcedo> but i am trying to save money for a prius or something
2019-07-20T16:37:24 < salcedo> because gas prices will increase and insurance companies are going to start phasing out private vehicles
2019-07-20T16:37:33 < aandrew> I've yet to do anything with LORA
2019-07-20T16:38:04 < salcedo> the carriers will increase their rates and start requiring contracts again
2019-07-20T16:38:14 < salcedo> so having a "wearable" might be key
2019-07-20T16:38:22 < Cracki> The Dentist 3, Kindergarten! https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mobile_dental_clinic.jpg
2019-07-20T16:38:35 < salcedo> LTE-M that has just enough connectivity to send/receive chats
2019-07-20T16:39:17 < aandrew> yeah this whole cat-m1 thing is interesting
2019-07-20T16:39:53 < salcedo> currently, i'm on tmo $10/mo "unlimited"
2019-07-20T16:40:06 < aandrew> heh I'm on $90/mo 10G 
2019-07-20T16:40:06 < salcedo> it's not one of the new iot-only plans like verizon has
2019-07-20T16:40:08 < salcedo> cheaper too
2019-07-20T16:40:30 < aandrew> rogers rolled out "unlimited" that I'd like to try since after you go over they just throttle you which is fine by me
2019-07-20T16:40:39 < aandrew> hav eto look at it more carefully before switching off
2019-07-20T16:40:45 < salcedo> the awesome thing about this plan is - because of where i live - there's no real difference between my 2GB of LTE and the 3G i get throttled to after I use it up.
2019-07-20T16:41:14 < salcedo> sometimes the 3G gets so bad i can just barely maintain my mosh session
2019-07-20T16:42:34 < salcedo> i think that is more of a location/coverage issue than the throttling though.
2019-07-20T16:42:49 < salcedo> this is totally usable if you're in a city
2019-07-20T16:43:22 < salcedo> i need a yagi
2019-07-20T16:45:19 < salcedo> i'm probably hurting the radiation pattern of this mifi too
2019-07-20T16:45:33 < salcedo> because drilled holes for external antennae + lora
2019-07-20T16:47:38 < salcedo> aandrew: you can make 3G work if you disable hipster bloat
2019-07-20T16:48:41 < salcedo> aka use elinks for 90% of your web browsing. get bitlbee for work chats if you need it. anything that has a javashit UX - find a suitable low-bandwidth alternative
2019-07-20T16:49:21 < salcedo> and of course, don't have a smartphone
2019-07-20T16:49:50 < salcedo> doesn't matter if it's iOS, android, android with all gapps disabled
2019-07-20T16:50:21 < salcedo> they are waste. on 3G, your smartphone just idling saturates the link.
2019-07-20T16:51:21 < englishman> salcedo: why don't you get a $40k used model S and live out of that
2019-07-20T16:51:44 < salcedo> because $40k takes me 10 years to earn
2019-07-20T16:53:08 < englishman> surely that's is a month's salary for any computer techy kind of role in USA
2019-07-20T16:54:25 < salcedo> for elysium yes
2019-07-20T16:54:36 < salcedo> they're DNA verified
2019-07-20T16:58:16 < englishman> why would you live in the USA if you aren't making $500k copy pasting python from stackexchange
2019-07-20T17:01:23 < salcedo> i'm like many who were born here in the stacks
2019-07-20T17:01:39 < salcedo> but not to a python pasting family
2019-07-20T17:04:50 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-20T17:05:35 < salcedo> how do I know what the AHB clock is?
2019-07-20T17:06:13 < bitmask> Nice, went to the recycling place down the street and they had a microwave sitting there, so I took it to take the transformer out
2019-07-20T17:06:35 < salcedo> Set the SysTick Clock Source.
2019-07-20T17:06:42 < salcedo> The clock source can be either the AHB clock or the same clock divided by 8.
2019-07-20T17:07:19 < bitmask> use the cubemx clock app or whatever it is?
2019-07-20T17:07:27 < salcedo> that's what i'm using
2019-07-20T17:07:43 < salcedo> i'm trying to correlate what i'm seeing in the stm32cubemx clock tree configuration thingy to libopencm3
2019-07-20T17:07:53 < salcedo> and also in the ref manual
2019-07-20T17:11:26 < salcedo> ok for one i think i'm an idiot
2019-07-20T17:11:43 < salcedo> i'm not even looking at configuring clocks, i don't think. i'm looking at configuring systick
2019-07-20T17:12:27 < salcedo> what i should be looking at is rcc
2019-07-20T17:15:52 < salcedo> yep lol. me 'tarded
2019-07-20T17:26:29 < aandrew> salcedo: I used to ssh over GPRS, I know how to use low bandwidth :-)
2019-07-20T17:27:11 < aandrew> salcedo: you can ask HAL
2019-07-20T17:29:02 -!- ac_slater [~weechat@pool-173-48-114-24.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-20T17:33:55 < bitmask> hmm, how do I test this transformer
2019-07-20T17:34:38 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-07-20T17:40:12 < salcedo> aandrew: that was before carriers started prioritizing NPC traffic only
2019-07-20T17:40:18 < salcedo> now mosh is essential
2019-07-20T17:43:02 -!- ac_slater [~weechat@pool-173-48-114-24.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2019-07-20T17:47:12 < aandrew> I have no issues with ssh when tethered on AT&T or rogers
2019-07-20T17:57:30 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@142.165.144.124] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-20T17:59:55 < salcedo> you pay $90/mo though
2019-07-20T18:00:20 < salcedo> dat net neuteredality
2019-07-20T18:00:47 < salcedo> the AI sayz "customer not clicking on ads. customer not feeding data to bigtech. throttle throttle throttle :)"
2019-07-20T18:19:03 < rajkosto> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/137006126100250624/602150770942672917/67198315_875051872857233_7447465040631824384_n.jpg
2019-07-20T18:21:35 < bitmask> damn, how do you take a secondary winding out of a transformer, its stuck in there good
2019-07-20T18:21:42 < bitmask> I already chopped one end off
2019-07-20T18:37:46 < Thorn> Soyuz launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN75W5AIQ2w
2019-07-20T18:41:13 < aandrew> salcedo: I don't think that matters at all when I'm roaming on AT&T 
2019-07-20T18:42:00 < aandrew> heh, my basement is too cold in the summer because aircon so I have my board set up and a camera pointed at it so I can watch the lcd/leds from somewhere warmer
2019-07-20T18:42:13 < aandrew> gotta futz with the placement though as the oled isn't in focus
2019-07-20T18:44:28 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2019-07-20T18:50:38 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/12gR2xR
2019-07-20T18:54:42 < englishman> fuck you're still working on that
2019-07-20T18:56:50 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-20T19:00:50 < Thorn> muh RF https://i.imgur.com/8VFLUTM.png
2019-07-20T19:01:08 < rajkosto> looks good
2019-07-20T19:06:12 < aandrew> englishman: this is v2; new hardware with some changes and now we're fleshing out the firmware
2019-07-20T19:06:17 < aandrew> most of my contracts are multi-year
2019-07-20T19:15:00 < bitmask> man this second half of sawing is going mad slow, guess I got tired
2019-07-20T19:17:21 < mawk> look at halterophilia competitions on youtube while you do that
2019-07-20T19:19:15 < Thorn> T - 10 min
2019-07-20T19:21:22 < specing> Thorn: to what?
2019-07-20T19:21:26 < specing> more spacex?
2019-07-20T19:21:39 < Thorn> Soyuz launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN75W5AIQ2w
2019-07-20T19:21:51 < Thorn> spacex is tomorrow
2019-07-20T19:22:12 < PaulFertser> ty
2019-07-20T19:23:42 < Thorn> roskosmos tv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b68RfO-_Eg4
2019-07-20T19:25:08 < Thorn> g0 has finally made its way to China https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33036190215.html
2019-07-20T19:28:47 -!- boB_K7IQ [boB_K7IQ@c-73-193-6-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-07-20T19:35:28 < Thorn> and spacex has been delayed to 24th
2019-07-20T19:36:53 < jadew> Thorn, thanks for the link
2019-07-20T19:44:48 < jadew> I just changed the component because of which this board is laid out the way it is...
2019-07-20T19:45:29 < jadew> with a different component that doesn't fit the layout
2019-07-20T20:48:40 < bitmask> god damn
2019-07-20T20:48:49 < bitmask> that took hours to get the secondary winding off this transformer
2019-07-20T20:48:52 < bitmask> that was aweful
2019-07-20T20:49:06 < bitmask> I hope I didn't damage it
2019-07-20T21:06:13 -!- sterna [~Adium@c83-248-167-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-20T21:21:31 < mawk> I can pay in stores with my phone now
2019-07-20T21:21:31 -!- ds2 [~ds2@66.218.47.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2019-07-20T21:21:39 < mawk> even though it's rooted
2019-07-20T21:39:35 -!- onio [~onio@2a00:23c5:7a01:8600:5d1d:3a4e:41b1:640f] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-20T21:41:55 -!- aditya [~aditya@c-174-62-108-251.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-20T21:42:17 < salcedo> ok i must be missing something with spi
2019-07-20T21:44:28 < salcedo> https://pastebin.com/EZa7G2GE
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2019-07-20T21:45:14 < salcedo> everything there look ok?
2019-07-20T22:17:36 < salcedo> 0x08000840 in spi_read (spi=1073819648) at ../common/spi_common_all.c:215
2019-07-20T22:17:38 < salcedo> 215  while (!(SPI_SR(spi) & SPI_SR_RXNE));
2019-07-20T22:17:44 < salcedo> hrm yeah i keep getting stuck in these loops. not sure what i'm missing.
2019-07-20T22:18:47 < salcedo> i set gpios to alternate function, set af5, spi_init_master(), spi_enable()
2019-07-20T22:18:54 < salcedo> what else?
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2019-07-20T22:31:55 < Cracki> did you give the peripheral power and clock?
2019-07-20T22:32:12 < Cracki> did you compare to any example sources you can get your hands on?
2019-07-20T22:32:28 < Cracki> did you try this on different targets
2019-07-20T22:32:46 < Cracki> did you try this with ST's own HAL
2019-07-20T22:33:21 < Cracki> the point is to vary the approach and rule out variations as causes
2019-07-20T22:34:09 < salcedo> this is code i ported from ST's HAL
2019-07-20T22:34:15 < salcedo> it was working there
2019-07-20T22:34:20 < Cracki> "ported from"
2019-07-20T22:34:26 < Cracki> where does the code come from
2019-07-20T22:34:31 < salcedo> i wrote it on HAL first
2019-07-20T22:34:34 < Cracki> cubemx generated, pulled out of someone's ass?
2019-07-20T22:34:38 < Cracki> does it work on HAL
2019-07-20T22:34:41 < Cracki> ah it was
2019-07-20T22:34:49 < salcedo> yep. i used stm32cubemx to generate it and then write it all
2019-07-20T22:35:03 < Cracki> good, so either your porting introduced a bug or whatever you ported to has a bug
2019-07-20T22:35:05 < salcedo> i wrote it pretty modular in HAL so i could easily adapt it to libopencm3
2019-07-20T22:35:54 < salcedo> also yes i am calling rcc_periph_clock_enable(RCC_SPI1)
2019-07-20T22:35:54 < Cracki> mix HAL and opencm3, fade from one to the other, change pieces of code gradually
2019-07-20T22:36:26 < Cracki> you also might wanna reduce the whole thing
2019-07-20T22:36:36 < Cracki> you are likely not just doing SPI there
2019-07-20T22:36:42 < salcedo> no
2019-07-20T22:36:55 < salcedo> i'm blinking leds and using uart successfully.
2019-07-20T22:37:03 < salcedo> i brought each piece over from hal one at a time
2019-07-20T22:37:06 < salcedo> now i'm on the spi part
2019-07-20T22:37:22 < Cracki> to prove that a bridge can collapse, engineers build concrete beams in a lab, they don't try to make real bridges collapse (not often anyway)
2019-07-20T22:37:33 < salcedo> lol right
2019-07-20T22:37:42 < salcedo> i didn't port the whole thing at once
2019-07-20T22:37:52 < salcedo> i brought sections of it over one at a time and tested each one individually
2019-07-20T22:38:00 < salcedo> now i'm doing spi, and ran into this weirdness
2019-07-20T22:38:01 < Cracki> meaning those parts might interfere
2019-07-20T22:38:04 < Cracki> or they might not
2019-07-20T22:38:10 < salcedo> yes that's true
2019-07-20T22:38:15 < salcedo> does spi use systick?
2019-07-20T22:38:18 < Cracki> break it down, port smaller parts
2019-07-20T22:38:20 < salcedo> because that might be what it is
2019-07-20T22:38:21 < Cracki> no?
2019-07-20T22:38:28 < Cracki> systick is just a periodic interrupt
2019-07-20T22:38:39 < salcedo> because my delay_ms function i made uses systick not according to the examples
2019-07-20T22:38:45 < Cracki> unless you touch systick anywhere explicitly
2019-07-20T22:38:49 < Cracki> but that's not SPI's fault
2019-07-20T22:38:51 < salcedo> i'm turning on systick counter and interrupt andthen turning it back off after i delay
2019-07-20T22:38:59 < Cracki> does your delay_ms have anything to do with spi?
2019-07-20T22:39:02 < salcedo> no
2019-07-20T22:39:19 < Cracki> here's wat you can do:
2019-07-20T22:39:38 < Cracki> take the code that works, break at the same place, get a snapshot of relevant registers
2019-07-20T22:39:45 < Cracki> run the fucked code, do the same, compare
2019-07-20T22:40:01 < Cracki> spi peripheral registers in particular.
2019-07-20T22:40:06 < Cracki> RCC too, I'd say
2019-07-20T22:40:09 < salcedo> in a general sense, i need to enable enable SPI1 power and clock. that's rcc_periph_clock_enable(RCC_SPI1) right?
2019-07-20T22:40:19 < Cracki> ask the ref manual :P
2019-07-20T22:40:33 < salcedo> the ref manual is schizophrenic
2019-07-20T22:40:43 < salcedo> it doesn't have a "do these steps to use spi"
2019-07-20T22:40:55 < Cracki> stm32 have a clock tree. a single bit is unlikely to be "all" you need
2019-07-20T22:41:09 < salcedo> currently i'm using the stock clock
2019-07-20T22:41:26 < salcedo> whatever default it is. which on this chip is the MSI at 4mhz
2019-07-20T22:41:28 < Cracki> which particular stm32
2019-07-20T22:41:53 < salcedo> stm32l496zgt6u
2019-07-20T22:42:34 < salcedo> actually... idea
2019-07-20T22:42:52 < salcedo> i'm going to start a blank stm32cubemx project with this chip and turn on SPI1 to the same settings i have in my code
2019-07-20T22:42:56 < salcedo> and see if it changes anything in the clock tree
2019-07-20T22:43:03 < Cracki> you haven't claimed anyhting in particular about the power control part of your chip
2019-07-20T22:43:42 < Cracki> good
2019-07-20T22:43:51 < Cracki> reduce, vary, compare, rule out
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2019-07-20T22:45:04 < salcedo> ok my understanding of ref manual compares with what is in the clock tree for a blank stm32cubemx project
2019-07-20T22:45:08 < salcedo> 4mhz MSI
2019-07-20T22:45:16 < superbia> cubemx is cancer
2019-07-20T22:46:09 < salcedo> nothing changed in the clock tree when i enabled SPI1 and set the parameters to how i have them in my code
2019-07-20T22:50:35 < Cracki> did you define bit values and whatnot yourself or did you assume that opencm3's values are right?
2019-07-20T22:51:06 < Cracki> if _anything_ isn't named exactly the same, I'd be suspicious. even when it is, that could be a coincidence and unintended
2019-07-20T22:52:38 < salcedo> i am assuming opencm3's defines are the same
2019-07-20T22:52:44 < Cracki> run a working and a nonworking firmware under the debugger, break execution, take note of register values, compare. any differing bit needs a justification
2019-07-20T22:53:08 < Cracki> break exec before that loop
2019-07-20T22:55:42 < bitmask> transformers are supposed to hum right? 
2019-07-20T22:56:05 < bitmask> I think I successfully got a transformer ready for a spot welder
2019-07-20T22:56:26 < bitmask> I just wrapped a few loops of wire for the secondary windings and read 2.7V
2019-07-20T22:56:27 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has quit [Excess Flood]
2019-07-20T22:56:47 -!- superbia [~user@unaffiliated/superbia] has left ##stm32 ["WeeChat 2.4"]
2019-07-20T22:59:41 < kakimir> time to watch a movie
2019-07-20T23:01:06 < englishman> time 4 sauna
2019-07-20T23:01:58 < kakimir> sauna is complete
2019-07-20T23:02:03 < kakimir> 2hours ago
2019-07-20T23:02:16 < kakimir> built some shelfs to kakilab
2019-07-20T23:02:19 < kakimir> no works now
2019-07-20T23:03:17 < kakimir> there is a tonne of jobbs available englishman
2019-07-20T23:03:32 < englishman> sauna jobs?
2019-07-20T23:04:48 < kakimir> C probgrammin
2019-07-20T23:05:14 < kakimir> low level and embedded
2019-07-20T23:06:41 < kakimir> I mean a month ago there was like 2 that were like "maybe I have a chance" but now there is like 12 tabs open and I'm browsing at company names that begin with "E"
2019-07-20T23:13:50 -!- con3 [~kvirc@ml.sun.ac.za] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-20T23:15:54 < Steffanx> So send some letters kakimir  
2019-07-20T23:16:29 < kakimir> I'm a bit picky
2019-07-20T23:16:52 < kakimir> I need to organize this and put up a plan
2019-07-20T23:17:37 < kakimir> and research which location and which company would best suit me appart from the actual work I do
2019-07-20T23:18:47 < qyx> yeah not all companies allow kakimusics
2019-07-20T23:18:50 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-07-20T23:20:41 < kakimir> all the itc companies are pretty nice nowdays because of the competition to lure programmers in their ranks
2019-07-20T23:24:16 < kakimir> fuck windows window manager
2019-07-20T23:25:29 < kakimir> I try to move tab to another chrome instance -> pop up chrome instance from behind -> dont allow to pull tab to task bar to open the right window
2019-07-20T23:31:41 < kakimir> it cannot jump the 0px gap because of 0 delay
2019-07-20T23:34:34 < kakimir> I rule out rental jobs and jobs where I have position where there is no guidance / peers
2019-07-20T23:34:35 < Cracki> wat
2019-07-20T23:35:06 < kakimir> open one chrome full screen, then place side by side 2 chromes above that
2019-07-20T23:35:19 < kakimir> then try to pull tab from one to another
2019-07-20T23:35:22 < Cracki> tabs aren't icons you can drag onto taskbar things
2019-07-20T23:35:37 < Cracki> make both windows visible, then drag it
2019-07-20T23:35:48 < kakimir> anyways
2019-07-20T23:35:50 < Cracki> btw, almost every tab is its own instance
2019-07-20T23:36:07 < kakimir> I meant window instance
2019-07-20T23:36:13 < Cracki> it's grouping a little, by site and by parent tab
2019-07-20T23:42:09 < kakimir> dragging tabs has nothing to do with windows window manager?
2019-07-20T23:42:13 < kakimir> :o
2019-07-20T23:44:04 < kakimir> fuck chrome window manager!
2019-07-20T23:45:24 < kakimir> how does it render moving tab outside of the window?
2019-07-20T23:46:02 < kakimir> it creates small window instance without decorations and moves it around?
2019-07-20T23:54:39 < Cracki> chrome renders those windows
2019-07-20T23:54:43 < Cracki> or most of it
2019-07-20T23:55:05 < Cracki> if it's aero, everything is handled by DWM.exe
2019-07-20T23:55:09 < Cracki> it draws borders and client area
2019-07-20T23:55:45 < Cracki> as long as the tab is docked, chrome draws/animates it inside the window
2019-07-20T23:56:13 < Cracki> once it's torn off, it becomes its own window and then the client area itself doesn't animate/change anymore
--- Day changed Sun Jul 21 2019
2019-07-21T00:11:15 < con3> guys I need some help.. I want to generate a sine sweep and I'm planning on using a lookup table
2019-07-21T00:11:22  * con3 's hands are frozed
2019-07-21T00:11:32 < con3> https://www.cypress.com/file/144746/download
2019-07-21T00:11:58 < con3> Is the maximum frequeny of the generated sine really obtained with the formula on the top of page 3?
2019-07-21T00:13:07 < kakimir> you need to complete the sine to get more coal to burn in your heating boiler?
2019-07-21T00:13:57 < con3> kakimir: cape town feels really cold tonight
2019-07-21T00:14:41 < con3> using that formula, to get a 200 Khz sine with a 16 bit dac I'd need a 13 GSPS DAC
2019-07-21T00:15:15 < kakimir> how is living?
2019-07-21T00:15:37 < con3> kakimir: I prefer it to not living :)
2019-07-21T00:16:47 < kakimir> you keep shotgun next to your desk and if you hear any noises you unload the shotgun in general direction?
2019-07-21T00:17:05 < con3> well now I'm going to start doing that
2019-07-21T00:17:12 < kakimir> seriously?
2019-07-21T00:17:43 < con3> lmao no, I think the other students might complain
2019-07-21T00:18:57 < kakimir> you can do sine with any amount of samples >2
2019-07-21T00:19:05 < kakimir> filtering is the key
2019-07-21T00:19:18 < kakimir> and bandwidth you are planning to use
2019-07-21T00:19:37 < con3> kakimir: I'd like to sweep from 500 Hz to 100 000 Hz
2019-07-21T00:19:55 < kakimir> what is the sine used for?
2019-07-21T00:20:35 < con3> just want to generate a pertubation signal on a pwm. So ill interpolate the sine onto the dc reference of the pwm.
2019-07-21T00:21:21 < kakimir> I don't understand but
2019-07-21T00:21:28 < con3> distortion shouldn't be too big of an issue
2019-07-21T00:21:38 < kakimir> do you need phase shift?
2019-07-21T00:21:56 < con3> nope, constant phase
2019-07-21T00:24:48 < con3> https://www.mouser.co.za/ProductDetail/Analog-Devices/AD9174BBPZ?qs=sGAEpiMZZMswix2y39yldf48Fnb6wO6o1Fx568DSoMg%3D
2019-07-21T00:24:57 < con3> maybe this guy ;)
2019-07-21T00:25:00 < kakimir> why LUT?
2019-07-21T00:25:49 < con3> kakimir: I'm not sure how else to do it, I know their are trig functions, but apparently they have high latency at higher speeds
2019-07-21T00:26:43 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip68-2-121-171.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-07-21T00:27:13 < kakimir> how is frequency changed?
2019-07-21T00:27:45 < kakimir> and how quick response frequency needs to have?
2019-07-21T00:28:55 < con3> that I need to figure out, once I have an idea of how to correctly generate it, I'll think about how to vary it. I basically want to sweep from 500 Hz to 100 kHz with about 3 cycles of each frequency and steps of ~500 Hz 
2019-07-21T00:29:38 < con3> TBH if there's a better way to do this I'm all ears, I only know of LUTs and trig functions :)
2019-07-21T00:30:06 < kakimir> I would use table that stores indexes to use in LUT
2019-07-21T00:30:28 < kakimir> but with 500hz that table would be really big
2019-07-21T00:31:49 < kakimir> sequencer if you will
2019-07-21T00:33:36 < kakimir> but no
2019-07-21T00:34:36 < Cracki> set up 50% duty cycle PWM, vary pwm interval/frequency, analog lowpass it
2019-07-21T00:34:46 < Cracki> screw the DAC
2019-07-21T00:35:02 < Cracki> otoh, if you have a dac, what "sample" rate does it support
2019-07-21T00:35:10 < Cracki> got an stm32 with dac maybe?
2019-07-21T00:35:18 < kakimir> you understand what he is trying to archive Cracki?
2019-07-21T00:35:33 < Cracki> not a clue. he talks about perturbation and modulation and whatnot
2019-07-21T00:35:38 < con3> Cracki: I do, but I'd prob go with an external DAC
2019-07-21T00:35:42 < con3> one sec guys
2019-07-21T00:35:51 < con3> will grab a paper quick
2019-07-21T00:36:17 < Cracki> one line sounded like you *have* some digital signal and you want to add noise to it, but sine waves aren't noise
2019-07-21T00:37:20 < Cracki> that cypress paper expects to draw a sine using a 64 point lut, so that's 256 samples (four quadrants) per period
2019-07-21T00:37:25 < Cracki> that's a little excessive
2019-07-21T00:37:42 < Cracki> unless you don't have analog filtering to smooth it
2019-07-21T00:37:47 < kakimir> quite a complex problem to generate sine in such range
2019-07-21T00:37:52 < kakimir> with DAC
2019-07-21T00:37:56 < Cracki> buy waveform generator
2019-07-21T00:37:59 < Cracki> or vna :P
2019-07-21T00:38:32 < Cracki> oh, their sine table is a full interval already
2019-07-21T00:39:01 < Cracki> >abbreviating "number" as "No."
2019-07-21T00:39:11 < Cracki> must be canadians, or straight up french
2019-07-21T00:40:00 < con3> Cracki: kakimir: https://docdro.id/aVau214
2019-07-21T00:40:16 < kakimir> con3: what is nature of this project?
2019-07-21T00:40:18 < con3> you can see it on the second page
2019-07-21T00:40:46 < con3> they generate a sinewave which they feed to the reference signal of the pwm generator driving the latches of the dcdc converter
2019-07-21T00:41:20 < con3> I'm trying to generate that sinusoid with a varying frequency
2019-07-21T00:41:21 < Cracki> uh where do you see an actual pwm generator or output
2019-07-21T00:41:42 < kakimir> con3: is it important to come up with tool yourself?
2019-07-21T00:41:48 < con3> the drivers would be a pwm generator
2019-07-21T00:42:01 < kakimir> instead of relying on commercial solutions?
2019-07-21T00:42:04 < con3> kakimir: sadly, yes
2019-07-21T00:43:01 < Cracki> they talk about practical
2019-07-21T00:43:26 < Cracki> where do they think sweeping 2.5 (?) orders of magnitude is practical
2019-07-21T00:43:44 < Cracki> *2.3
2019-07-21T00:43:56 < con3> Cracki: Just what I've seen in papers
2019-07-21T00:44:15 < kakimir> interesting paper
2019-07-21T00:44:24 < Cracki> they affect the dc dc converter. I don't see that they generate any signal as such
2019-07-21T00:44:27 < kakimir> too tired to read it at 0:44AM
2019-07-21T00:45:09 < kakimir> con3: this is to make better battery packs?
2019-07-21T00:45:31 < kakimir> smarter batteries
2019-07-21T00:45:34 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-21T00:45:57 < con3> kakimir: it's used in a wide range of applications, determining impedance of biosensors, battery packs (incorporated in the bms) and many other
2019-07-21T00:46:17 < kakimir> I'm interested in battery pack part
2019-07-21T00:46:25 < con3> Got a nice simulation of it going
2019-07-21T00:46:41 < Cracki> where does it say that they even do a sweep
2019-07-21T00:46:44 < con3> eh kakimir, I'll link some stuff papers to you if I find them
2019-07-21T00:46:47 < Cracki> they have plots with fixed frequency
2019-07-21T00:46:52 < Thorn> docking in about an hour
2019-07-21T00:47:33 < kakimir> urban dictionary -> docking
2019-07-21T00:47:42 < Cracki> are cats involved
2019-07-21T00:48:09 < con3> Cracki: this paper doesn't, it was just an example paper. The pertubation sinusoid becomes present in the batteries voltage and current. from there you can determine the impedance at that fixed frequency, you then sweep the frequency to get a nyquisr plot
2019-07-21T00:48:26 < kakimir> con3: I'm more interested how to use such information about battery can be utilized
2019-07-21T00:48:34 < Cracki> the paper mentions using about a handful of frequencies
2019-07-21T00:48:37 < con3> kakimir: one sec
2019-07-21T00:48:38 < kakimir> in other uses than production of the cell
2019-07-21T00:49:09 < con3> kakimir: just look up impedance spectroscopy for fuel cells
2019-07-21T00:51:01 < kakimir> I'm interested only in impedance spectroscopy of on-line battery cells
2019-07-21T00:51:14 < kakimir> using DC/DC converter
2019-07-21T00:52:10 < con3> Cracki: would doing a sweep with a DAC be extremely hard?
2019-07-21T00:52:27 < Cracki> would be trivial
2019-07-21T00:52:29 < kakimir> no
2019-07-21T00:52:33 < con3> I don't know that's why I'm asking before I spend months doing something stupid
2019-07-21T00:52:37 < Cracki> you feed it the value at the time
2019-07-21T00:53:04 < Cracki> only problem is it won't be a clean sine
2019-07-21T00:53:13 < kakimir> con3: just start
2019-07-21T00:53:30 < kakimir> you will figure it out
2019-07-21T00:53:34 < Cracki> ^
2019-07-21T00:54:04 < con3> eh I should go grab my stm32 board then. Just didn't want to get started and then ask later and you guys are like "wtf" :p
2019-07-21T00:54:10 < kakimir> as base setup set filtering for maximum number of samples you can get for 100khz
2019-07-21T00:54:19 < con3> kakimir: going to link you a book in a bit
2019-07-21T00:54:48 < kakimir> I rather hear it in a single line
2019-07-21T00:54:55 < kakimir> what to do with it
2019-07-21T00:55:10 < kakimir> I already know the trick but not the application
2019-07-21T00:56:00 < con3> "as base setup set filtering for maximum number of samples you can get for 100khz" ? filter on the output with a cutoff higher than my generated signal?
2019-07-21T00:56:32 < kakimir> idk
2019-07-21T00:56:54 < kakimir> I would just look it doesn't look grainy in simulation
2019-07-21T00:57:00 < salcedo> Cracki: no freaking clue. it's now time to do as you suggest.
2019-07-21T00:57:13 < salcedo> i was hoping to get lucky. hope has no place in stm32land
2019-07-21T00:57:23 < Cracki> abandon all hope
2019-07-21T00:57:29 < Cracki> at least if you go the untrodden path
2019-07-21T00:57:32 < Cracki> just stick with HAL
2019-07-21T00:57:38 < Cracki> at least then you can bitch at ST
2019-07-21T00:57:53 < kakimir> actually there is also gain to play with :O
2019-07-21T00:57:56 < salcedo> my LTE cannot handle ST though
2019-07-21T00:58:11 < salcedo> i don't want to have to wait 4 hours to download 300MB of BULLSHIT every time i start up stm32cubemx
2019-07-21T00:58:24 < kakimir> you need constant amplitude con3?
2019-07-21T00:58:32 < Cracki> con3, aren't there controllable oscillators? that could be an option too
2019-07-21T00:58:53 < kakimir> with such wide range?
2019-07-21T00:58:57 < salcedo> i know what's happening thuogh. the RXNE flag is never getting cleared.
2019-07-21T00:59:20 < Cracki> omg cubemx has such dumbness. I can't stand it downloading nearly everything nearly every week either
2019-07-21T00:59:35 < Cracki> kakimir, maybe he needs several with less wide range
2019-07-21T00:59:46 < con3> kakimir: it'll be about 0.1V max
2019-07-21T00:59:48 < Cracki> or just a handful/dozen frequencies are enough to measure battery state
2019-07-21T01:00:14 < kakimir> so you need to control also gain if you have filter
2019-07-21T01:00:16 < Cracki> I can't imagine how useful thousands of data points would be, outside a lab situation
2019-07-21T01:00:31 < con3> Cracki: tbh is probably isn't
2019-07-21T01:00:35 < Thorn> soyuz docking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg
2019-07-21T01:01:06 < kakimir> con3: I would look for reference design to study how such sweeps are implemented in other devices
2019-07-21T01:01:32 < kakimir> also talk with Laurenceb__
2019-07-21T01:01:54 < con3> kakimir:  Laurenceb__?
2019-07-21T01:02:06 < salcedo> Cracki: cubemx wanting to download garbage every so often is one of the reasons i switched. also because libopencm3 helps me learn more. also because when i get to a point where i can sell this board, i want everything to be open source AND have people be able to work with the code without having to install malware.
2019-07-21T01:02:07 < kakimir> he is wizard
2019-07-21T01:02:22 < kakimir> and you are entering the school of analog magic
2019-07-21T01:03:00 < con3> thanks kakimir, I'll ask him if he pops up. really appreciate the help guys. Going ot start messing around now
2019-07-21T01:03:07 < Cracki> effluxdb to record babby shakes
2019-07-21T01:03:40 < Cracki> and maybe buy that shotgun
2019-07-21T01:04:18 < con3> Cracki: maybe something like this https://www.mouser.co.za/datasheet/2/609/6990fc-1270784.pdf
2019-07-21T01:04:38 < Cracki> wow, mouser sells shotguns
2019-07-21T01:05:07 < Cracki> maybe, maybe not. that paper talked about current sources too eh
2019-07-21T01:05:23 < Cracki> lolwat 488 Hz to 2 megahertz
2019-07-21T01:05:25 < Cracki> that's some range
2019-07-21T01:05:50 < Cracki> ah, wrong
2019-07-21T01:05:55 < Cracki> vco bw 300 khz at 1 mhz
2019-07-21T01:06:11 < kakimir> con3: an idea: seperate control for gain
2019-07-21T01:06:30 < kakimir> to not even try to get gain control calculated in same DAC signal
2019-07-21T01:07:15 < jadew> jeez, long scrollback
2019-07-21T01:09:55 < kakimir> you can find analogs for filtering such ranges in audio amplification tech
2019-07-21T01:11:20 < kakimir> good audio stuff has rather flat response from 20-20000 after all
2019-07-21T01:13:02 < kakimir> actually you can find probs everything you need from how to produce audio
2019-07-21T01:13:40 < jadew> smells like an interesting convo
2019-07-21T01:13:45 < jadew> what was the question/topic?
2019-07-21T01:14:03 < kakimir> sine wave generation range 500 - 100000hz
2019-07-21T01:14:10 < kakimir> amplitude 0.1v
2019-07-21T01:14:16 < jadew> ah
2019-07-21T01:14:18 < jadew> boring
2019-07-21T01:14:29  * con3 cries in corner
2019-07-21T01:14:36 < kakimir> not boring
2019-07-21T01:14:45 < jadew> kinda boring
2019-07-21T01:14:48 < kakimir> kinda
2019-07-21T01:14:57 < con3> kinda
2019-07-21T01:15:11 < jadew> what's the problem?
2019-07-21T01:15:18 < jadew> cuz I've already solved it in my head
2019-07-21T01:15:29 < kakimir> spill it out
2019-07-21T01:15:32 < Cracki> audio dac?
2019-07-21T01:15:35 < karlp> salcedo:you probably wanted spi_xfer, not spi_readN
2019-07-21T01:15:54 < jadew> fast DAC => filter => done
2019-07-21T01:16:07 < kakimir> yees.. ofc
2019-07-21T01:16:35 < jadew> and it doesn't even have to be that fast
2019-07-21T01:16:37 < kakimir> but you missed all the hard work from that flow diagram
2019-07-21T01:16:54 < jadew> what flow diagram?
2019-07-21T01:17:05 < kakimir> => => profit
2019-07-21T01:17:11 < jadew> right
2019-07-21T01:18:22 < jadew> I guess the challenge is to find a good DAC, but they're not unheard of
2019-07-21T01:18:41 < jadew> and it depends on how pure your want the output
2019-07-21T01:18:58 < kakimir> I don't think DAC is that important
2019-07-21T01:19:08 < jadew> it is, it has to be linear
2019-07-21T01:19:18 < con3> jadew: I don't think it's a hard prob for you guys, I'm just new to this, so stuff seems harder to me
2019-07-21T01:19:22 < con3> :p
2019-07-21T01:19:44 < kakimir> you also need to feed that DAC
2019-07-21T01:19:48 < jadew> in the sense that from 0.1 to 0.2 to 0.3 of its output, it has to be the same voltage difference, otherwise you'll end up with various harmonics
2019-07-21T01:19:49 < kakimir> with bytes
2019-07-21T01:20:21 < kakimir> oh
2019-07-21T01:20:41 < kakimir> con3: talk to jadew he seems to know what he is talking about
2019-07-21T01:20:48 < jadew> but I'm sure there are good companies out there that make nice DACs
2019-07-21T01:20:53 < jadew> there's not much to talk about this
2019-07-21T01:21:15 < kakimir> like a pro he signs out from trivial problem
2019-07-21T01:21:18 < jadew> it's low frequency, so you can make the circuit on a breadboard and it will work like designed
2019-07-21T01:22:31 < con3> jadew: I think my questions were more revolved around how to actually do the frequency variation using Lookup tables, but I think I have somewhat of an idea, so I'm going to code and pop back if I get very stuck.
2019-07-21T01:22:37 < con3> Appreciate all the help guys
2019-07-21T01:22:37 < jadew> with a 10 times the max frequency DAC, all the switching noise from one level to the other, can be filtered out
2019-07-21T01:23:16 < kakimir> con3: it's still the best idea
2019-07-21T01:23:28 < con3> kakimir: the lookup table?
2019-07-21T01:23:33 < kakimir> to start
2019-07-21T01:23:39 < con3> I agree ^
2019-07-21T01:23:40 < jadew> for sine calculation?
2019-07-21T01:24:13 < con3> jadew: yep, going to just cycle through it faster for a faster frequency
2019-07-21T01:24:29 < jadew> ah, no, that's dumb
2019-07-21T01:24:39 < con3> well shit
2019-07-21T01:24:51  * con3 erases white board
2019-07-21T01:24:55 < karlp> what's that dumb?
2019-07-21T01:24:59 < jadew> how long is that lookup table going to be for a 500 Hz signal?
2019-07-21T01:25:07 < karlp> I mean, you can't do it infinitely, but.... ?
2019-07-21T01:25:09 < jadew> karlp, it's dumb to have the waveform in
2019-07-21T01:25:26 < karlp> right... you said that... why?
2019-07-21T01:25:37 < jadew> lots of memory ofc
2019-07-21T01:25:46 < karlp> you got a better reason?
2019-07-21T01:25:50 < jadew> no
2019-07-21T01:26:02 < karlp> ok, so it's perfectly fine then.
2019-07-21T01:26:04 < jadew> well, also yes
2019-07-21T01:26:16 < karlp> 64samples is great, you only need 1 quadrant.
2019-07-21T01:26:27  * con3 un-erases a white board
2019-07-21T01:26:35 < karlp> we're not doign audiophool stupidity
2019-07-21T01:26:53 < jadew> depending on how fast you want to go, you might end up with points that are not there already (although, kind of unlikely, considering he's starting at 500 Hz)
2019-07-21T01:26:55 < karlp> even if you don't want to do the inversions for just one quadrant, it's still ~inconsequential amount of memoeyr
2019-07-21T01:27:08 < karlp> yes, you can't jus tscale it infinitely to "just run it faster"
2019-07-21T01:27:15 < karlp> at some point you need to resample/switch ranges
2019-07-21T01:27:19 -!- boB_K7IQ [boB_K7IQ@c-73-193-6-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-21T01:27:28 < jadew> karlp, how are 64 samples enough?
2019-07-21T01:27:28 < karlp> really, stm32s have ram, you can just have 2 or three lookup tables,
2019-07-21T01:27:31 < kakimir> I recommended sequencer kinda thing
2019-07-21T01:27:44 < kakimir> but there is problem with steps at 500hz
2019-07-21T01:27:50 < jadew> karlp, that's a very low resolution sine at 500 Hz
2019-07-21T01:27:55 < kakimir> or is there
2019-07-21T01:28:10 < karlp> 64*4 _per cycle_
2019-07-21T01:28:15 < karlp> you store a sine wave in you rlut
2019-07-21T01:28:20 < karlp> you scycle it at varying speeds.
2019-07-21T01:28:26 < karlp> i don't see the problem.
2019-07-21T01:28:31 < jadew> yes, that's low, you will get a lot of distortion
2019-07-21T01:28:39 < jadew> I mean... it's going to be a sine, just a shitty one
2019-07-21T01:28:44 < karlp> you're 40ghz world doesn't apply to everyone else.
2019-07-21T01:29:05 < kakimir> how about that thing where you switch quickly between 1 and 3 to produce 2
2019-07-21T01:29:17 < kakimir> to involve such mechanism in sequencer
2019-07-21T01:29:19 < karlp> do 256 per quadrant, it's still an inconsequential amoutn of memory
2019-07-21T01:29:43 < karlp> stm32l1xxx-a has 16k ram.
2019-07-21T01:30:08 < karlp> you can do 4k/quadrant for all I care.
2019-07-21T01:30:21 < jadew> kakimir, for such interpolation to work, so it wouldn't produce just a straight line, you would need to calculate sin(x) :)
2019-07-21T01:31:00 < Cracki> why do you guys talk about generating sine tables? why not have a fixed table and send samples to the DAC _when_ they're due, i.e. faster for higher frequency
2019-07-21T01:31:02 < kakimir> I think in many cases the hack with best result is used
2019-07-21T01:31:19 < karlp> Cracki: that's the position I'm trying to support
2019-07-21T01:31:29 < Cracki> sure, for higher frequencies one would skip points in the table to keep up
2019-07-21T01:31:30 < karlp> jade's final objection to it is just, "takes ram"
2019-07-21T01:31:54 < jadew> yeah, at 500 Hz, I'd use maybe 10 times what you suggested
2019-07-21T01:32:11 < Cracki> let's assume 8 bit dac
2019-07-21T01:32:15 < Cracki> so amplitude 127
2019-07-21T01:32:36 < jadew> that would keep the minimum 1 MSps DAC (required for nice 100 kHz) happy
2019-07-21T01:32:58 < Cracki> so to never skip an LSB, that would be... around a hundred samples per quadrant
2019-07-21T01:33:13 < kakimir> has anyone suggested just using math.h sin
2019-07-21T01:33:16 < jadew> otherwise, with 64 samples, you get 256 * 500 = 128 kSps
2019-07-21T01:33:23 < Cracki> cortex m4 and done :P
2019-07-21T01:33:30 < jadew> which is lower than what the DAC should be able to do
2019-07-21T01:33:43 < kakimir> just sin(x) at full steam
2019-07-21T01:33:43 < Cracki> does a CM4 calculate sin in hardware?
2019-07-21T01:33:54 < Cracki> eh, sounds feasible
2019-07-21T01:33:59 < jadew> if you have hardware sin() you're set
2019-07-21T01:34:01 < Cracki> at 1 MHz you still have dozens of cycles per sample
2019-07-21T01:34:12 < Cracki> for any common core clock
2019-07-21T01:34:57 < Cracki> uh... he wanted multiples of 500 hz
2019-07-21T01:34:58 < kakimir> how much double to integer conversion require cycles?
2019-07-21T01:35:03 < con3> hardware sin()...?
2019-07-21T01:35:22 < Cracki> so generate a rotation at 500 hz, and for any multiple of that, SKIP that multiple of samples and keep wrapping
2019-07-21T01:35:34 < Cracki> *rotation at 500 hz and dac sample rate)
2019-07-21T01:35:53 < Cracki> "hardware" sin means the core would have an instruction that magically spits out the value
2019-07-21T01:36:01 < Cracki> like hardware multiplication, division, sqrt...
2019-07-21T01:36:15 < Cracki> DSPs probably have that
2019-07-21T01:36:23 < con3> well shit
2019-07-21T01:36:24 < Cracki> cm4 and lower might not
2019-07-21T01:36:27 < Cracki> no matter
2019-07-21T01:36:34 < Cracki> cortex M has plenty of bang
2019-07-21T01:36:53 < Cracki> we're nerding out here, optimizing things neither you nor your application would ever care about
2019-07-21T01:36:59 < kakimir> how about simplifying the problem: 500hz, 1000hz, 2000hz, 4000hz, 8000hz, 16000hz....
2019-07-21T01:37:06 < Cracki> that's what he asked, I think
2019-07-21T01:37:11 < Cracki> oh, almost
2019-07-21T01:37:12 < con3> i'm just sitting here, learning
2019-07-21T01:38:06 < Cracki> let's assume 1 MHz dac rate, a 500 hz interval is 2000 samples (or 500 for a quadrant)
2019-07-21T01:38:24 < Cracki> so any multiple of 500 hz is really just taking samples at successive steps larger than 1
2019-07-21T01:38:37 < Cracki> and if you do powers of two, that's steps of that
2019-07-21T01:39:04 < Cracki> you can set up DMA to loop through that sample table and send it to the DAC
2019-07-21T01:39:14 < jadew> ok, that would work, I guess I was wrong about the lookup table being dumb
2019-07-21T01:39:18 < jadew> 2 kb is not that much
2019-07-21T01:39:23 < kakimir> best idae
2019-07-21T01:39:28 < kakimir> !
2019-07-21T01:39:33 < Cracki> what was the alternative to a lut?
2019-07-21T01:39:46 < Cracki> (not simply DAC = sin(t); )
2019-07-21T01:39:52 < kakimir> was there any?
2019-07-21T01:39:55 < jadew> would have been a problem at much lower frequencies, but 500 Hz seems ok
2019-07-21T01:40:06 < Cracki> he said something about three cycles per frequency, so that doesn't buy you much if you generate each frequency on demand
2019-07-21T01:40:09 < jadew> also, the fact that there's an upper limit helps
2019-07-21T01:40:45 < kakimir> is there gain correction needed?
2019-07-21T01:40:58 < jadew> for the DAC?
2019-07-21T01:41:40 < kakimir> for the filter
2019-07-21T01:41:58 < jadew> at the lower end?
2019-07-21T01:42:01 < jadew> it shouldn't be necessary
2019-07-21T01:42:01 < Cracki> the one that filters off the dac sampling frequency?
2019-07-21T01:42:22 < jadew> you choose it so it filters out everything past 120 kHz and it should be ok
2019-07-21T01:42:23 < kakimir> ye
2019-07-21T01:42:49 < jadew> since the DAC would have 1 Msps, that's 500 kHz min
2019-07-21T01:43:30 < jadew> so with a 120 kHz filter you take out the steps between the samples and the switching noise (assuming the DAC can have sharper edges than necessary)
2019-07-21T01:43:45 < Cracki> I just assumed ~1 MHz for the dac. does anyone have numbers from a data sheet?
2019-07-21T01:43:55 < jadew> and if it's a good enough filter it should have very low insertion loss at 100 kHz
2019-07-21T01:44:25 < jadew> well, the higher the better, but if you plan for a sample rate at least 10 times the max freq., you should be fine
2019-07-21T01:44:44 < jadew> you then just need a DAC that's capable of at least that
2019-07-21T01:45:27 < kakimir> it would be different thing if you fed samples at 400ksps or so
2019-07-21T01:45:46 < Cracki> I'm in f303cc dac electrical specs rn. they list 1 MS/s max for "correct..."
2019-07-21T01:45:52 < jadew> yeah, that would be different
2019-07-21T01:45:58 < Cracki> 3-4 us settling time
2019-07-21T01:46:21 < Cracki> so... I'm guessing that's around 100 khz usable bw
2019-07-21T01:46:41 < Cracki> depending on load R and C
2019-07-21T01:47:13 < Cracki> could be better, but quite on the nose
2019-07-21T01:47:34 < mawk> you could use the integrated opamp in the f3 to buffer the dac output if load is a problem right ?
2019-07-21T01:47:46 < mawk> or maybe it's done by default already ?
2019-07-21T01:47:59 < con3> I'm thinking of using an external dac though? The internal seems to not be the best, also seems to have quite a large bit of offset
2019-07-21T01:48:01 < kakimir> integrated op amp! you guise are spoiled.
2019-07-21T01:48:05 < mawk> lol
2019-07-21T01:48:34 < jadew> con3, you have to write the specifications out
2019-07-21T01:48:40 < Cracki> just asking... is this for cheap builtin battery metering in battery powered devices, or is this for lab conditions?
2019-07-21T01:48:41 < jadew> how do you know it's not sufficient?
2019-07-21T01:49:53 < Cracki> f303cc offset error at 10 bit: +- 3LSB (12 bit: 12 LSB), so that's about 8 bit practical
2019-07-21T01:50:07 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@90.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-21T01:50:09 < Cracki> for shouting at a battery, that sounds plenty good
2019-07-21T01:50:25 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49058433
2019-07-21T01:50:32 < Laurenceb> keeek last photo
2019-07-21T01:50:32 < kakimir> Lurencer
2019-07-21T01:50:44 < con3> Cracki: somewhere in between the two, I'm not planning on using this on a massively expensive battery pack, but under the same conditions, I'd like repeatable results
2019-07-21T01:51:01 < Laurenceb> its 8chan leftpol irl
2019-07-21T01:51:06 < Cracki> do a prototype first :P
2019-07-21T01:51:27 < kakimir> con3: this is Laurenceb
2019-07-21T01:51:29 < Cracki> maybe order one of those robotdyn F303CC boards to play with if you don't have anything remotely suitable
2019-07-21T01:51:31 < con3> Cracki: Going to dive in right now, if I can get the code going I'll be more than happy
2019-07-21T01:51:47 < con3> I've got an stm32f446re lying here
2019-07-21T01:51:58 < Cracki> sounds suitable :P
2019-07-21T01:52:30 < kakimir> solution was so trivial
2019-07-21T01:52:36 < mawk> 3LSB error sounds quite large
2019-07-21T01:52:36 < kakimir> I feel dumb now
2019-07-21T01:52:42 < mawk> yeah that makes like 8.4 bits
2019-07-21T01:52:55 < con3> kakimir: that's how i feel when asking questions here
2019-07-21T01:53:12 < Cracki> offset error, mind you
2019-07-21T01:53:24 < mawk> yes
2019-07-21T01:54:37 < Cracki> oh, that thing's V_DAC_OUT is 0.2V .. VDDA-0.2V, so a little less than full usable range apparently
2019-07-21T01:54:49 < Cracki> nvm, that's with buffer
2019-07-21T01:54:49 < mawk> yes it's common I guess
2019-07-21T01:54:52 < mawk> in opamps
2019-07-21T01:55:07 < con3> ^that's what i meant about using an external dac
2019-07-21T01:55:15 < mawk> then don't use the output buffer
2019-07-21T01:55:22 < Cracki> so use internal dac and add a discrete buffer/amplifier
2019-07-21T01:55:24 < mawk> use your own rail to rail buffer if you want a high drive
2019-07-21T01:55:33 < Cracki> I'd expect that you need an amplifier anyway
2019-07-21T01:55:45 < con3> mawk: true, have some good opamps lying around
2019-07-21T01:56:08 < jadew> con3, what output you need again?
2019-07-21T01:56:18 < mawk> if your package has VSSA/VDDA pins I think you can supply VSSA <= GND-0.2 and VDDA >= VDD+0.2
2019-07-21T01:56:20 < jadew> what are the requirements?
2019-07-21T01:56:31 < mawk> but it sounds more trouble than external buffer
2019-07-21T01:56:33 < con3> just rechecking jadew
2019-07-21T01:56:49 < mawk> they need to be rail to rail con3 , it's not always the case
2019-07-21T01:56:58 < mawk> often they can get up to a rail but not the other
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2019-07-21T01:57:12 < mawk> and if they are rail to rail then their specs are often worsened in some aspects
2019-07-21T01:57:18 < con3> mawk I think these are the best i have : http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/20005434B.pdf
2019-07-21T01:57:32 < mawk> so you need to carefully check and maybe have lower VSS and higher VDD if you want full swing, just an idea
2019-07-21T01:57:48 < mawk> yes rail to rail, good
2019-07-21T01:58:28 < mawk> 30mA is enough ? what are your required specs ?
2019-07-21T01:59:10 < con3> 30mA would be more than enough, just need to drive a pwm generator which supplies a gate driver, all small power signals
2019-07-21T01:59:25 < mawk> pwm generator thing doesn't sound like a heavy load
2019-07-21T01:59:31 < mawk> maybe you don't need a buffer at all
2019-07-21T01:59:46 < con3> brb
2019-07-21T02:00:33 < Cracki> I doubt he needs rail to rail
2019-07-21T02:00:40 < Cracki> I read something about 10 mV or 10 mA or something
2019-07-21T02:00:43 < jadew> or any filtering
2019-07-21T02:00:44 < mawk> he said the 0.2 offset bothered him
2019-07-21T02:00:48 < Cracki> ic
2019-07-21T02:00:59 < mawk> but I doubt it's a real issue too
2019-07-21T02:01:06 < kakimir> can you just scale
2019-07-21T02:01:18 < mawk> and it's with the output buffer, I don't think he even needs the output buffer then he has full scale
2019-07-21T02:01:23 < mawk> since he's driving a small load
2019-07-21T02:02:09 < Cracki> repost of that paper that tickles the batteries: https://docdro.id/aVau214
2019-07-21T02:04:34 < Cracki> III A: they generate the frequency signal by *varying the DC converter's PWM*
2019-07-21T02:04:49 < Cracki> so they have control over the dc-dc converter's pwm
2019-07-21T02:06:29 < kakimir> how do you get more than relative impendance results?
2019-07-21T02:06:49 < mawk> what do you mean by relative ?
2019-07-21T02:06:53 < mawk> ah, to the load ?
2019-07-21T02:07:01 < con3> Cracki: essentially they vary the pwm by varying the dc reference which is between 0 ~ 1 V. I'm going to generate this offset but superimpose the small sinusid ontop of it. that's what bothers me about the offset
2019-07-21T02:07:16 < Cracki> ah!
2019-07-21T02:07:44 < Cracki> sounds like you can do the summing with just a pair of resistors
2019-07-21T02:07:47 < mawk> the error offset you mean con3 ?
2019-07-21T02:08:04 < mawk> since you only need small amplitude you can divide the DAC output to get more accuracy
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2019-07-21T02:08:06 < mawk> with your opamp
2019-07-21T02:08:15 < Cracki> or have the DAC directly generate something that wobbles around 1.0 volt
2019-07-21T02:08:30 < Cracki> but that'd be worse than what mawk suggests
2019-07-21T02:08:34 < mawk> hmm
2019-07-21T02:08:42 < mawk> I think just feeding like 1V to VDDA would be good
2019-07-21T02:08:45 < con3> I was thinking of just generating the sine and adding an offset to the values?
2019-07-21T02:08:55 < Cracki> check datashit about valid ranges for vdda
2019-07-21T02:08:56 < mawk> the DAC will have its 10 bits of resolution but on 1.0V range
2019-07-21T02:08:59 < Cracki> vdda has limits too
2019-07-21T02:09:03 < mawk> ah, yes
2019-07-21T02:09:12 < con3> wait what
2019-07-21T02:09:21 < con3> you can adjust the range of the dac??
2019-07-21T02:09:26 < Cracki> a little
2019-07-21T02:09:27 < mawk> on your mcu you have two pins VSSA and VDDA
2019-07-21T02:09:34 < Cracki> VDDA is analog supply voltage
2019-07-21T02:09:37 < mawk> it's V- and V+ for integrated DAC, ADC and opamp
2019-07-21T02:09:40 < Cracki> SS is gnd
2019-07-21T02:09:50 < mawk> on some packages you don't have VSSA
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2019-07-21T02:10:03 < con3> so suplying that with a 1V supply and the DAC will be 1V fullscale?
2019-07-21T02:10:08 < Cracki> maybe
2019-07-21T02:10:13 < mawk> I don't know if VDDA is allowed to be < VDD
2019-07-21T02:10:14 < con3> that's neat!
2019-07-21T02:10:15 < mawk> you need to check
2019-07-21T02:10:16 < Cracki> if vdda is allowed to be 1 volt
2019-07-21T02:10:17 < mawk> but that's the idea
2019-07-21T02:10:19 < con3> ah ned to check
2019-07-21T02:10:35 < Cracki> there are probably clamping diodes limiting it to a band around vdd
2019-07-21T02:10:44 < mawk> otherwise the next best thing is just dividing with your opamp, it's pretty straightforward and you get an output buffer for the same price
2019-07-21T02:10:54 < Cracki> (or other reason for the limit)
2019-07-21T02:11:22 < mawk> I think a reason is that some internal ADC is used to monitor VDD for brownouts
2019-07-21T02:11:25 < mawk> so can't be too small
2019-07-21T02:11:27 < mawk> or something like this
2019-07-21T02:11:29 < con3> yeah Vdd and Vdda ar .7 to 3.6V
2019-07-21T02:11:37 < con3> 1.7
2019-07-21T02:12:21 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-21T02:12:28 < Cracki> so you could plop down an LDO to make you 1.8 volts
2019-07-21T02:12:30 < mawk> anyway you have an integrated opamp in your mcu I think ? you can divide with that
2019-07-21T02:12:38 < mawk> many solutions available
2019-07-21T02:12:40 < Cracki> but that only gives you a factor of 2 improvement over taking 3.3/3.6 volts
2019-07-21T02:13:04 < Cracki> I'd go with opamp for the gain too
2019-07-21T02:13:28 < Cracki> and the summation too
2019-07-21T02:13:30 < mawk> the internal opamp may not have a big current gain tho, but driving pwm driver doesn't sound hard
2019-07-21T02:13:34 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-21T02:13:40 < mawk> you can chain them I think, it's pretty cool
2019-07-21T02:13:49 < Cracki> and keep the ADC moving around its mid value, with largest feasible swing
2019-07-21T02:14:52 < con3> i think i missed the frequency variation bit, quickly reading up
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2019-07-21T02:17:54 < Cracki> huh? that's what you've been talking about, sweeping for a nice plot or something
2019-07-21T02:18:11 < Cracki> tho they seemed content with checking a few frequencies to see which ones are good, and then settling on 1 khz
2019-07-21T02:23:32 < con3> yeah Cracki I just wanted to illustrate the mechanism with that paper, I'll be doing the sweep to get a nyquist plot and from there determine the impedance variation of the system
2019-07-21T02:23:36 < kakimir> what changes in function of what?
2019-07-21T02:24:15 < kakimir> DC/DC converter frequency changes in function of voltage in adjust pin input?
2019-07-21T02:24:17 < aandrew> https://i.imgur.com/Scnraww.jpg
2019-07-21T02:24:39 < con3> kakimir: not sure what you'r referring to?
2019-07-21T02:25:16 < kakimir> didn't read the paper so I'm confused with offsets and frequencies
2019-07-21T02:25:38 < Cracki> meow
2019-07-21T02:26:01 < Cracki> reminds me of https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd/pull/390
2019-07-21T02:26:10  * con3 hands Cracki catnip
2019-07-21T02:26:18 < Cracki> :3
2019-07-21T02:26:34 < con3> heh stm appnote does variation using timers
2019-07-21T02:26:38 < Cracki> I understand now that it's not about the paper exactly, but about generally measuring impedance of batteries
2019-07-21T02:27:53 < con3> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/05/fb/41/91/39/02/4d/1e/CD00259245.pdf/files/CD00259245.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00259245.pdf
2019-07-21T02:28:03 < con3> page 16 seems to cover what i plan on doing
2019-07-21T02:28:22 < con3> what are you guys working on by the way?
2019-07-21T02:28:51 < Cracki> realtime control of a surgery robot
2019-07-21T02:29:13 < con3> welp that sounds slightly a crap load harder than what i'm doing
2019-07-21T02:29:16 < Cracki> >_> just teaching these dumb engineers how a computer scientist does inter process communication
2019-07-21T02:29:19 < Cracki> it's trivial
2019-07-21T02:29:32 < con3> ah Cracki you studied cs?
2019-07-21T02:29:35 < Cracki> get a raspi, build kernel with RT patch, use an existing library, write a few dozen lines of code
2019-07-21T02:29:38 < Cracki> yes
2019-07-21T02:29:43 < con3> wish i did cs
2019-07-21T02:30:04 < Cracki> and this is just 1/5 of a semester of work for some remaining credits towards the master's
2019-07-21T02:30:05 < jadew> wish I was in school now
2019-07-21T02:30:27 < kakimir> I dont
2019-07-21T02:30:46 < con3> I prefer industry a lot more
2019-07-21T02:31:07 < Cracki> when I'm finished and (gainfully, not like now) employed, I'm considering doing an EE study on top. being able to call yourself an engineer is useful, but CS majors can't do that
2019-07-21T02:31:11 < Cracki> yay industry
2019-07-21T02:31:15 < jadew> there's not enough diversity in the industry
2019-07-21T02:31:27 < Cracki> industry has customers, so it's not just for publications
2019-07-21T02:31:29 < jadew> all the dumb kids are left behind
2019-07-21T02:31:34 < Cracki> >diversity
2019-07-21T02:31:35 < kakimir> money
2019-07-21T02:31:46 < con3> Cracki: that's pretty much what i want to do. Once i have EE i want to do CS
2019-07-21T02:31:52 < con3> but part time
2019-07-21T02:31:53 < kakimir> actualization
2019-07-21T02:32:14 < Cracki> yeh part time
2019-07-21T02:32:19 < jadew> CS is done, haven't you heard the news?
2019-07-21T02:32:29 < con3> you studying part time now Cracki?
2019-07-21T02:32:46 < jadew> whatever you want to work on, an indian will do it for 1/10 of what you ask
2019-07-21T02:32:46 < Cracki> nah, primarily studying, working a little on the side
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2019-07-21T02:32:54 < con3> Cracki: same here
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2019-07-21T02:33:06 < Cracki> not enough indians to do the things westerners can do
2019-07-21T02:33:19 < con3> boeing would disagree
2019-07-21T02:33:25 < Cracki> boeing keeps crashing
2019-07-21T02:33:29 < jadew> they're enough to drive wages down
2019-07-21T02:33:34 < Cracki> wasn't that in the news just recently
2019-07-21T02:33:38 < con3> their software? oh wait nvm
2019-07-21T02:33:40 < Cracki> then fuck boeing
2019-07-21T02:33:51 < Cracki> companies always want to drive wages down. that's why they throw money at feminism.
2019-07-21T02:34:11 < Cracki> indeed, boeing's software is fucked
2019-07-21T02:34:19 < Cracki> in their 737 max
2019-07-21T02:34:58 < jadew> Cracki, I don't think they want to drive wages down tbh
2019-07-21T02:35:05 < jadew> they just want cheaper labor
2019-07-21T02:35:10 < Cracki> that's the same
2019-07-21T02:35:23 < Cracki> cheaper labor means lower wages
2019-07-21T02:35:40 < jadew> there's a slight distinction between wanting to drive wages down and wanting things done cheaper
2019-07-21T02:35:42 < kakimir> companies pay any cost to get wages down at the sectors that do what matters
2019-07-21T02:35:51 < jadew> they don't want their employees to suffer, they just want to pay less
2019-07-21T02:35:57 < Cracki> unless you can get labor from other than the labor market... such as by breeding your own workers
2019-07-21T02:36:05 < jadew> if they could pay less and have their employees earn more, that'd be great for them
2019-07-21T02:36:23 < Cracki> employee suffering is irrelevant. just hire new drones.
2019-07-21T02:36:49 < jadew> yeah, but it's not the goal of companies, it's just a side effect
2019-07-21T02:37:08 < Cracki> companies are rational agents. as such, they're amoral.
2019-07-21T02:37:17 < Cracki> and entirely sociopathic, were they people
2019-07-21T02:37:27 < jadew> yeah, I always compare companies with psychopaths
2019-07-21T02:37:30 < Cracki> :P
2019-07-21T02:37:32 < jadew> yeah
2019-07-21T02:37:40 < Cracki> it's why sociopaths thrive in upper management
2019-07-21T02:37:41 < jadew> but not all of them
2019-07-21T02:37:52 < jadew> small ones are more humane
2019-07-21T02:37:58 < Cracki> rational decisions require ignoring emotion
2019-07-21T02:38:26 < Cracki> I like smaller companies too
2019-07-21T02:38:34 < Cracki> less apparatus
2019-07-21T02:38:43 < Cracki> fewer apparatchiks
2019-07-21T02:40:15 < salcedo> Cracki: it was spi_disable_software_slave_management() that got me past the hang. now i have to figure out why i'm not getting any data.
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2019-07-21T02:40:21 < Cracki> ze fuk
2019-07-21T02:40:32 < Cracki> is that an actual api name?
2019-07-21T02:40:38 < salcedo> yes
2019-07-21T02:40:43 < salcedo> libopencm3 is racisssss
2019-07-21T02:41:14 < Cracki> thank you for informing me. this information has been added to my "pre"judices
2019-07-21T02:41:48 < salcedo> i put #define spi_kale_shake_latte_unicorn_pumpkin_spice_bernie_forever spi_disable_software_slave_management in triggerwarning.h
2019-07-21T02:41:50 < salcedo> problem solved
2019-07-21T02:42:54 < Cracki> refusing pull requests to euphemize identifiers is literally violence
2019-07-21T02:43:05 < salcedo> that's why we have a CoC
2019-07-21T02:43:47 < Cracki> speech codes. these bolsheviks truly have no new ideas.
2019-07-21T02:44:55 < kakimir> salcedo: use upper case!
2019-07-21T02:45:15 < kakimir> if I saw that in my code I would mistake it for a variable
2019-07-21T02:45:30 < jadew> I wonder... is it worth placing a PCB order in the weekend or it's better to wait until after the weekend?
2019-07-21T02:45:58 < Cracki> china has a 7 day work week, right
2019-07-21T02:46:11 < kakimir> they can be checking it any time
2019-07-21T02:46:12 < jadew> is that true?
2019-07-21T02:46:31 < Cracki> maybe they have shift work
2019-07-21T02:46:34 < jadew> hmm, then I'm gonna send them in
2019-07-21T02:47:00 < kakimir> if it's trivial they might pass it even in weekends or at night
2019-07-21T02:47:16 < kakimir> before senior pcb checker gets to work
2019-07-21T02:47:27 < Cracki> only reason I'd wait is if I had them made locally
2019-07-21T02:47:43 < jadew> I wish I could do them locally
2019-07-21T02:47:45 < Cracki> and then only because in the shower I always think of changes after submission
2019-07-21T02:48:01 < jadew> I keep getting bad results with either the silkscreen or the solder mask :/
2019-07-21T02:48:53 < jadew> I had this one board I delayed for 2 months because of bad silkscreen, promised it to people, ordered from JLC (which have made good boards before this)
2019-07-21T02:49:06 < jadew> and it came out with crappy solder mask
2019-07-21T02:49:41 < jadew> I had to sell it like that, but it bothered me a lot
2019-07-21T02:49:50 < Cracki> maybe order from three different companies and chuck the worst in the trash
2019-07-21T02:49:56 < jadew> PCB quality used to be a lot better a couple of years ago
2019-07-21T02:50:18 < jadew> Cracki, but then it would be cheaper to just make them in the EU
2019-07-21T02:50:20 < Cracki> price went down too, but not tha tmuch
2019-07-21T02:50:22 < Cracki> ;)
2019-07-21T02:50:57 < Cracki> they probably get most jobs with coarsely printable silkscreen
2019-07-21T02:51:14 < Cracki> they might have a better option, but for lower volume, so you might get it if you ask?
2019-07-21T02:51:21 < Cracki> *do most jobs
2019-07-21T02:51:41 < jadew> not a bad idea
2019-07-21T02:53:15 < Cracki> quick google found me articles specifically on silkscreen from allpcb and pcbway. that'd lead me to believe they're aware that some people want good silk screen
2019-07-21T02:53:50 < jadew> Cracki, JLC has good silkscreen, and usually good solder mask
2019-07-21T02:53:56 < jadew> but this time they burned me
2019-07-21T02:53:59 < Cracki> :S
2019-07-21T02:54:10 < jadew> I'm not ordering from them anymore
2019-07-21T02:54:21 < jadew> also the FR-4 seems very poor quality
2019-07-21T02:54:34 < jadew> it's very glass like
2019-07-21T02:54:40 < mawk> you have a picture ?
2019-07-21T02:54:41 < Cracki> the chinese are trying hard to give good customer service. maybe they just need a few more complaints about the bad silkscreen
2019-07-21T02:54:58 < jadew> mawk, let me take one
2019-07-21T02:56:38 < jadew> it's not visible on camera :/
2019-07-21T02:56:44 < jadew> but it looks dirty
2019-07-21T02:57:10 < jadew> almost as if they held the iron on for too long when they applied the solder maks
2019-07-21T02:57:10 < Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gingerbread_(charity)#2018:_Centenary
2019-07-21T02:57:13 < mawk> ah, no worries
2019-07-21T02:57:18 < Laurenceb> J. K. Rowling – President of Gingerbread
2019-07-21T02:57:22 < Laurenceb> my orbital sides
2019-07-21T02:58:02 < Laurenceb> making the "cool wine aunt" memi real
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2019-07-21T03:03:44 < Thorn> hatch opening https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg
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2019-07-21T03:06:24 < jadew> they've been floating around the earth until now?
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2019-07-21T03:19:12 < salcedo> ok
2019-07-21T03:19:27 < salcedo> SPI_CR1 and CR2 are now identical to my ST HAL code
2019-07-21T03:19:29 < salcedo> so it's not that.
2019-07-21T03:19:30 < con3> yay, got a sinewave
2019-07-21T03:19:44 < salcedo> there doesn't appear to be a way to set the NSSP bit in CR2 in libopencm3
2019-07-21T03:20:06 < karlp> did you see me say you probably wanted spi_xfer, not spi_send?
2019-07-21T03:20:15 < karlp> and ar eyou _sure_ you wanted to disable software slave management?
2019-07-21T03:20:51 < salcedo> there's no function to disable NSSP but that's ok
2019-07-21T03:20:57 < salcedo> there is a define SPI_CR2_NSSP.
2019-07-21T03:21:18 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/libopencm3-tests/blob/wip/spi-slave2/tests/freertos-spi-slave/host/host-usb-spi.c#L286 is for software cs, case 2 in the same block is for hardware cs.
2019-07-21T03:21:21 < salcedo> karlp: that part was wrong.
2019-07-21T03:21:31 < salcedo> i actually _want_ software slave management
2019-07-21T03:21:47 < salcedo> but a weird thing is happening when i set it in the register
2019-07-21T03:22:09 < karlp> then disabling software slave managemnet is probably not the right thing to do eh?
2019-07-21T03:22:31 < salcedo> if i don't set the SSI bit BEFORE i set the SSM bit, setting the SSM bit clears out every bit except SSM.
2019-07-21T03:22:40 < salcedo> this is not a libopencm3 thing either. the code does |=
2019-07-21T03:22:45 < karlp> is https://github.com/karlp/libopencm3-tests/blob/wip/spi-slave2/tests/freertos-spi-slave/host/host-usb-spi.c#L299-L301 what you're trying to do?
2019-07-21T03:23:09 < salcedo> yes
2019-07-21T03:23:11 < salcedo> but
2019-07-21T03:23:33 < salcedo> as i just said. the order you have those functions causes CR1 to have ONLY SSM bit set.
2019-07-21T03:23:43 < salcedo> if you switch the order, it works.
2019-07-21T03:23:53 < salcedo> but i still don't have spi comms yet.
2019-07-21T03:23:56 < karlp> does your l4 have some yet again differences in l4?
2019-07-21T03:24:02 < karlp> because that's working code.
2019-07-21T03:24:06 < salcedo> it's an stm32l496zg
2019-07-21T03:24:08 < karlp> the wip part is the spi slave in that branch
2019-07-21T03:24:13 < salcedo> on a nucleo-144
2019-07-21T03:24:27 < karlp> I'm not doing compaarisons, is l496 meaninginfully different to other spi periperhals?
2019-07-21T03:24:34 < karlp> there's a v1 and a v2 periph known...
2019-07-21T03:25:01 < karlp> anyway, I'm off to bed.
2019-07-21T03:25:02 < salcedo> how would i check which version?
2019-07-21T03:50:35 < Cracki> nobody knows
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2019-07-21T03:52:29 < Cracki> this says one can poke around in cubemx files and find that info https://blog.salkinium.com/modm-devices/
2019-07-21T03:55:54 < salcedo> ok i found another booboo
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2019-07-21T03:56:08 < salcedo> the pin i was configuring as gpio also had NJRST
2019-07-21T03:56:18 < Cracki> quadspi is v2...
2019-07-21T03:56:28 < Cracki> spi1 is v3 even
2019-07-21T03:56:35 < salcedo> in HAL, the AFIO periph has to be enabled in order to use that pin as a regular gpio
2019-07-21T03:56:46 < salcedo> this was likely not happening in my libopencm3 version
2019-07-21T03:56:49 < salcedo> so i moved pins
2019-07-21T03:56:53 < salcedo> but still no dice.
2019-07-21T03:57:25 < salcedo> so far, i've confirmed that all gpio and spi control registers are identical between my libopencm3 code and the HAL code
2019-07-21T03:57:34 < Cracki> Version="spi2s1_v3_3_Cube"
2019-07-21T03:58:00 < Cracki> "C:\program Files\STMicroelectronics\STM32Cube\STM32CubeMX\db\mcu\STM32L496Z(E-G)Tx.xml"
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2019-07-21T04:00:00 < sync> karlp: I'm getting about a 30mA error with 400/5A CTs used at about 10A
2019-07-21T04:00:07 < sync> completely uncalibrated
2019-07-21T04:00:09 < mawk> nice
2019-07-21T04:00:22 < mawk> using an ide like stm32cubeIDE you can debug your code and view register contents live salcedo 
2019-07-21T04:00:38 < salcedo> mawk: i can do the same thing in gdb :)
2019-07-21T04:00:54 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-21T04:01:14 < mawk> the former uses the latter
2019-07-21T04:01:30 < salcedo> that would require me to get stm32cubeide thuogh
2019-07-21T04:01:40 < mawk> it's free
2019-07-21T04:01:41 < salcedo> is probably 78GB
2019-07-21T04:01:49 < mawk> and embeds cubemx just for you
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2019-07-21T04:02:56 < Cracki> or you can download the last truestudio
2019-07-21T04:03:03 < Cracki> that's just a few months behind
2019-07-21T04:03:24 < Cracki> it's all eclipse + gdb + plugins anyway
2019-07-21T04:03:52 < Cracki> the nice part about it is that it has a tree of peripherals and their registers you can browse in
2019-07-21T04:04:17 < Cracki> not sure if gdb can look those up by some identifier
2019-07-21T04:04:36 < Cracki> (unless it's in some header... so probably it can)
2019-07-21T04:05:18 < salcedo> i did it the ghetto way by mathing from the spi base
2019-07-21T04:05:28 < salcedo> also used uart to confirm i was looking at the right address
2019-07-21T04:08:55 < mawk> stm32cubeide is the same thing as truestudio now no ?
2019-07-21T04:09:04 < mawk> so it has the peripheral tree I was talking about
2019-07-21T04:09:26 < mawk> if atollic is indeed truestudio, can't remember
2019-07-21T04:09:54 < aandrew> yeah I think attollic was renamed
2019-07-21T04:09:58  * antto sees toolchain entanglement
2019-07-21T04:10:03 < mawk> lol
2019-07-21T04:10:38 < con3> this seems slow
2019-07-21T04:10:50 < mawk> what is ?
2019-07-21T04:11:02 < mawk> ghetto gdb debugging ?
2019-07-21T04:11:03 < mawk> yes
2019-07-21T04:13:16 < con3> the sine dac
2019-07-21T04:13:24 < con3> well I'm getting 108kHz now
2019-07-21T04:14:02 < antto> much kilo, very Hertz
2019-07-21T04:14:10 < mawk> why slow ? what's its period ?
2019-07-21T04:15:24 < con3> mawk: this is me just updating the data register of a dac from the LUT in a while loop
2019-07-21T04:20:27 < con3> So a total of 4APB clock cycles are needed to update the DAC DOR register data. As APB1 maximum clock is 42MHz (for ST32F407x), 10.5Msps is the maximum update rate for the DAC output register when timer trigger and the DMA are used for the data update.
2019-07-21T04:20:29 < con3> hmm
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2019-07-21T04:26:00 < Cracki> debug build?
2019-07-21T04:26:05 < Cracki> enable optimization :P
2019-07-21T04:26:53 < Cracki> lemme guess, you're measuring the frequency with some multimeter... are you sure you're outputting a whole period, and you're calculating that wave right?
2019-07-21T04:27:03 < con3> Cracki: oscilloscope
2019-07-21T04:27:08 < Cracki> excellent
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2019-07-21T04:27:37 < con3> while they say 10.5 MSPS with DMA enabled
2019-07-21T04:28:00 < Cracki> 108 khz output signal, or dac sample rate?
2019-07-21T04:28:15 < Cracki> because 10.5e6/108e3 = ~97
2019-07-21T04:28:31 < con3> output signal
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2019-07-21T04:29:00 < Cracki> sounds like a period has about 97 samples?
2019-07-21T04:29:05 < con3> 64 values in the LUT
2019-07-21T04:29:08 < Cracki> aha!
2019-07-21T04:29:16 < con3> and my APB1 is 90 MHz
2019-07-21T04:29:20 < Cracki> suspicious! 64 + ~32
2019-07-21T04:29:26 < con3> so 22.5 MSPS
2019-07-21T04:29:59 < Cracki> 108e3 * 64 = 6.912 msps, sounds ok
2019-07-21T04:30:05 < Cracki> for a while loop
2019-07-21T04:30:41 < Cracki> 90e6 / 6.912e6 = ~13
2019-07-21T04:30:44 < con3> completely agree, going to implement the DMA
2019-07-21T04:30:47 < Cracki> so that's 13 cycles per sample
2019-07-21T04:32:57 < con3> I mean 100 kHz is already perfect, just want to do a bit of other things as well, so hoping DMA gives me leeway 
2019-07-21T04:33:02 < Cracki> ;)
2019-07-21T04:33:05 < Cracki> it certainly will
2019-07-21T04:33:32 < con3> plus triggering the DMA with a timer should help with varying the freq
2019-07-21T04:33:37 < con3> thanks again for all the help :)
2019-07-21T04:33:53 < con3> crap it's nearly 4am
2019-07-21T04:34:07 < Cracki> note that simply changing stride to switch frequencies will work but you should reset the pointer/phase too... and have a cosine table so [0] is always +1.0
2019-07-21T04:34:43 < Cracki> *yawn*
2019-07-21T04:35:37 < con3> I know those words seperately, so if I switch frequencies make sure it starts using the LUT values from 0 again? Also why should there be a cosine?
2019-07-21T04:36:56 < Cracki> you send [0], [1], ... to the dac. you can send [0], [2], [4] to the dac for doubled frequency
2019-07-21T04:37:04 < Cracki> AND you can vary the timer's period for finer control
2019-07-21T04:37:28 < Cracki> the point about using a cosine is just sampling
2019-07-21T04:37:58 < Cracki> if you had a sine wave and you sampled it at 0 and pi only (so almost maximum "multiplication"), you'd have a flat line
2019-07-21T04:38:11 < Cracki> for a cosine, sampling at [0] and [N/2] gives +1 and -1
2019-07-21T04:38:52 < Cracki> the "resetting phase/index" is about the following:
2019-07-21T04:39:14 < Cracki> say you kept an index that keeps running, and you increment it by 1 or whatever stride to set the multiple of 500 hz or whatever you want to output
2019-07-21T04:40:44 < Cracki> and when it's at position 12 or whatever, you switch up to stride... let's say 8, then you'll sample the wave at weird positions, not nice round numbers like 0 ([0]) and pi ([N/2])
2019-07-21T04:41:18 < Cracki> you can ignore all that. your scope will make this apparent if it even becomes noticeable
2019-07-21T04:41:28 < mawk> to understand that cosine thing con3 just realize it's the same thing as keeping your sine but just with a -π/2 phase delay, sin(x+π/2) = cos(x)
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2019-07-21T04:43:53 < aandrew> heh thsi reminds me of back when I was writing a tracker music player
2019-07-21T04:43:59 < aandrew> learned a lot abotu wavetable synthesis
2019-07-21T04:44:16 < aandrew> learned about fixed point arithmetic too
2019-07-21T04:44:47 < Cracki> men who stare at rounding errors
2019-07-21T04:45:40 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC2TzspJn5A
2019-07-21T04:55:29 < aandrew> haha men who stare at rounding errors
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2019-07-21T05:00:51 < Cracki> https://reverseengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/6003/visualizing-elf-binaries https://gist.github.com/cmattoon/e937726737b615904052 ...
2019-07-21T05:02:23 < Cracki> >different views (e.g. 3D point butt)
2019-07-21T05:02:29 < Cracki> cloud2butt strikes again
2019-07-21T05:11:14 < dongs> sup dongs
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2019-07-21T05:28:24 < dongs> englishman: whats a modern from china MPU wiht acc/gyro
2019-07-21T05:28:29 < dongs> is 6500 still available or wat
2019-07-21T05:28:44 < dongs> just need something to measure angle and trigger when its 90" from saved position
2019-07-21T05:32:31 < dongs> oh wait the faggots want mag too
2019-07-21T05:32:33 < dongs> LSM9DS1?
2019-07-21T05:36:25  * con3 is freezing
2019-07-21T05:36:43 < con3> Cracki: wouldn't this only be an issue if my sample rate is  quite low?
2019-07-21T05:44:26 < Thorn> dongs: https://www.adafruit.com/product/3463
2019-07-21T05:47:19 < dongs> NXP huh
2019-07-21T05:47:22 < dongs> is that in china?
2019-07-21T05:47:37 < dongs> i guess if its sold by aidsfruit it must be
2019-07-21T05:47:44 < Thorn> looks like FXOS8700 is at least
2019-07-21T05:48:20 < dongs> you maen FXAS21002
2019-07-21T05:48:24 < dongs> thats way too expensive too
2019-07-21T05:48:31 < dongs> i think ill go with BMI055 and some ST acc/mag combo
2019-07-21T05:51:11 < dongs> oh hmmm
2019-07-21T05:56:57 < con3> oh I completely messed up the APB1, it's not 90, but 45 MHz
2019-07-21T05:57:15 < con3> ~11.25 MSPS
2019-07-21T05:57:57 < con3> ~175,78 KHz, so close to what I was getting
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2019-07-21T06:45:20 < englishman> dongs: probably st
2019-07-21T06:46:12 < englishman> dono about saved angle triggers like that but the modern ones do 6D threshold
2019-07-21T06:51:50 < con3> crap footprint mistake
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2019-07-21T07:01:40 < salcedo> yup. completely stumped.
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2019-07-21T07:03:11 < salcedo> CR1,CR2,GPIOA AFRL,AFRH,MODER,OSPEEDR,OTYPER,PUPDR match between HAL and libopencm3 implementations of SPI
2019-07-21T07:08:04 < salcedo> err implementations of project on either HAL or libopencm3
2019-07-21T07:08:32 < salcedo> also comparing code of HAL_SPI_Transmit with functions in libopencm3
2019-07-21T07:09:22 < salcedo> they perform the same actions (there is obvious cruft in HAL like checking if spi is already enabled) but the data transfer is the same
2019-07-21T07:09:58 < salcedo> HAL can do an equivalent of libopencm3's spi_xfer() and see 0x12 back from the lora module
2019-07-21T07:10:23 < salcedo> the libopencm3 implementation always sees 0x00.
2019-07-21T07:12:03 < salcedo> checked to see if it was a difference between HAL and libopencm3 when resetting the module by floating reset pin.
2019-07-21T07:12:43 < salcedo> floating the pin entirely (so neither implementation can reset the module)... module works on HAL... not on libopencm3. rules that out.
2019-07-21T07:16:19 < salcedo> Cracki: 16 hours straight on it. still nothing.
2019-07-21T07:21:13 < salcedo> https://github.com/salcedo/stm32-rfm9x if anyone with fresh eyes might catch the obvious
2019-07-21T07:21:18 < salcedo> it has to be something obvious
2019-07-21T07:24:13 < englishman> i dont see a code of conduct
2019-07-21T07:30:05 < salcedo> more dabs
2019-07-21T07:30:54 < salcedo> new thought. i wonder if pa5 (connected to dio0 of the module) not being set as input is causing the module not to listen
2019-07-21T07:32:25 < salcedo> nope not that.
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2019-07-21T08:23:38 < fenugrec> salcedo, "16h straight", there's your problem, heh
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2019-07-21T09:06:12 < qyx> salcedo: what sequence of data are you sending?
2019-07-21T09:09:04 < qyx> oh I see the link
2019-07-21T09:10:12 < Thorn> I'm thinking about replacing sx1276 with si4463
2019-07-21T09:10:25 < Thorn> well actually I already ordered 50 of them
2019-07-21T09:12:01 < qyx> no lora in silabs chip
2019-07-21T09:12:12 < qyx> salcedo: "16 hours still no spi" is not a good commit message
2019-07-21T09:16:07 < qyx> salcedo: are you failing here? https://github.com/salcedo/stm32-rfm9x/blob/master/drivers/rfm9x.c#L66
2019-07-21T09:16:16 < qyx> this thing doesn't work as you are expecting
2019-07-21T09:17:16 < qyx> when reading from SXxxxx parts, you have to transmit the register address FIRST (you may ignore the returned value) and then transmit an "empty" byte again to clock out the actual register contents
2019-07-21T09:17:45 < qyx> your line with uint8_t contents = spi_xfer(..., reg_address) is wrong
2019-07-21T09:20:41 < qyx> see how spi_xfer is defined https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/master/lib/stm32/common/spi_common_all.c#L232
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2019-07-21T10:27:58 < Thorn> https://i.imgur.com/u9FOFlO.png
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2019-07-21T11:21:23 < con3> offtopic but how do you guys go about checking pcb footprints after placing everything down? Print it out and place the parts on the paper?
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2019-07-21T11:25:45 < Thorn> 3d models
2019-07-21T11:25:58 < Thorn> uf available
2019-07-21T11:28:01 < con3> messed up a damn through hole footprint bad
2019-07-21T11:28:18 < con3> Thorn: will start using the 3d view for surface mount in the future
2019-07-21T12:01:42 < rajkosto> > not using the 3d view at all times
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2019-07-21T12:25:05 < Steffanx> What if you made the foot print using the wizard and incl. the 3d model Thorn ? You dont do that?
2019-07-21T12:25:46 < Steffanx> I sometimes print it and try to fit it, but its tedious
2019-07-21T12:28:55 < Steffanx> Just double check the foot prints when you make em
2019-07-21T12:33:11 < con3> yeah just with large pcb's I tend to make stupid footprint mistakes, I guess it happens. Just want to avoid it
2019-07-21T12:42:23 < Steffanx> Here some kakimusic for you kakimir  https://youtu.be/ZIa7FAopAtg
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2019-07-21T13:07:43 < jadew> I haven't done footprint mistakes in a while
2019-07-21T13:08:03 < jadew> can't say I pay special attention
2019-07-21T13:08:16 < jadew> I just make sure when I place the part that it matches what it says in the datasheet
2019-07-21T13:08:38 < jadew> and it's unlikely that you will fail if you're using parts you've used before
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2019-07-21T13:52:43 < Steffanx> I guess it all depends on your definition of "special attention" then :P
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2019-07-21T13:57:09 < antto> mistakes? inposhiburu! https://i.imgur.com/V84JajM.png
2019-07-21T13:57:54 < con3> antto: CAD all of that yourself?
2019-07-21T13:58:09 < antto> nah, none
2019-07-21T13:58:46 < antto> it's all from kicad, minus the IO connectors which are from the manufacturers
2019-07-21T13:59:13 < antto> and the footprints i made according to the datasheets
2019-07-21T14:00:11 < antto> the audio jack looks weird cuz the model is a bit dumb, and the footprint is made such that it would fit 2 different models of audio jacks
2019-07-21T14:01:22 < Steffanx> all those huge connectors and then a microusb connector :)
2019-07-21T14:01:55 < antto> yeah, sux
2019-07-21T14:02:55 < Steffanx> Go with USB B
2019-07-21T14:03:07 < antto> that is what it was originally
2019-07-21T14:03:39 < antto> btw, this is only for serial over usb
2019-07-21T14:03:59 < Steffanx> Sell it with official HIFI Audiograde usb b cables.
2019-07-21T14:04:03 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/QuNewEr.png
2019-07-21T14:05:09 < Steffanx> lol at the ch43x comment. No way ch43x has a better reputation.
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2019-07-21T15:37:56 < con3> i dont have words to describe wtf is going on on my oscillosope
2019-07-21T15:38:45 < con3> guys dear god
2019-07-21T15:39:15 < con3> I have entered the quantum realm with my dac
2019-07-21T15:41:31 < Steffanx> hm
2019-07-21T15:47:56 < con3> https://vimeo.com/349293274
2019-07-21T15:47:59 < con3> it is beautiful
2019-07-21T15:51:21 < Steffanx> Excellent sine wave indeed
2019-07-21T15:53:37 < con3> heh and i was worried about harmonics
2019-07-21T16:00:43 < kakimir> are you running at full sample rate?
2019-07-21T16:02:04 < con3> no.. something odd is going on. I'm just getting little square waves that are moving up and down.
2019-07-21T16:02:06  * con3 debugs
2019-07-21T16:16:01 < qyx> mhm did you actually check DAC electrical characteristics?
2019-07-21T16:16:57 < qyx> aren't you expecting too many msps from the DAC?
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2019-07-21T16:32:00 < con3> qyx: it looks like it's loading in the value into the data register and when it does it, it makes the data output register 0, then it sube value in the data register in. So I'm getting jumpes between 0 and the LUT value
2019-07-21T16:48:46 < salcedo> qyx: thanks. i totally overlooked the "empty" byte part because in my code that works on HAL, it's not explicitly doing that - at least i don't think it is.
2019-07-21T16:50:38 < salcedo> my understanding was that if you use spi_xfer to transmit the byte (the register address in sx1276), the byte that comes back is what is stored in the register. but that's incorrect? I should be sending a 2nd arbitrary byte to get the sx1276 to clock out the data i need?
2019-07-21T16:51:29 < qyx> when you write a byte to the SPI data register, it gets shifted out AND at the same time a byte is shifted in
2019-07-21T16:51:42 < qyx> it can be accessed afterwards by reading the data register
2019-07-21T16:52:05 < qyx> but the SX1276 has no means of knowing which register is to be sent when its address is not known yet
2019-07-21T16:52:39 < dongs> is there any modern BLE shit that isnt absolute cancer to code for?
2019-07-21T16:52:46 < dongs> is nordic shite the only choice
2019-07-21T16:53:16 < dongs> oh, STM has blueNRG shit?
2019-07-21T16:53:18 < dongs> is that acutally usabvle?
2019-07-21T16:53:25 < qyx> salcedo: read carefully the 4.3. SPI Interface section in the SX1276 datasheet
2019-07-21T16:53:46 < dongs> The STM32WB is the latest STMicroelectronics’s solution offering a certified Bluetooth 5.0 combined with IEEE 802.15.4. The STM32WB series is a dual core system-on-chip with an arm cortex-M0+ core handling the radio protocol stack as well as the Customer Key Storage IP (CKS) that enable secure firmware and/or radio stack update. The second core, an arm cortex-M4, is fully dedicated to the user 
2019-07-21T16:53:52 < dongs> application. 
2019-07-21T16:53:52 < dongs> i take it this is not buyable?
2019-07-21T16:54:26 < qyx> ask zyp
2019-07-21T16:54:34 < dongs> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/stmicroelectronics/STM32WB55CEU6/497-18490-ND/9919555 lol  5 in stock
2019-07-21T16:54:43 < qyx> he did something witj stm32wb
2019-07-21T16:55:09 < dongs> hmm it has a reference manual
2019-07-21T16:55:35 < qyx> yeah but iirc no way of accessing the M0+ core nor the radio peripheral itself
2019-07-21T16:55:46 < dongs> dont really care about that as long as it works
2019-07-21T16:55:47 < qyx> there is some blob running on the M0+ core interfacing with your app
2019-07-21T16:55:50 < dongs> speaking of accessing
2019-07-21T16:55:57 < qyx> idk how, ho knows
2019-07-21T16:56:00 < qyx> *he
2019-07-21T16:56:13 < dongs> ive been wondering if say bootloader uses fatfs is tehre any way to avoid linking that shit again in userspace and use same code from bootloader?
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2019-07-21T16:59:53 < dongs> hmm
2019-07-21T16:59:58 < dongs> but nRF52832 is in china
2019-07-21T17:00:04 < dongs> for like < $3
2019-07-21T17:00:28 < dongs> but NRF sdk is probably aids...
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2019-07-21T17:01:47 < Steffanx> the softdevice is closed sores. You must like it for sure dongs
2019-07-21T17:02:01 < dongs> if that means it works, thats wonderful
2019-07-21T17:02:11 < dongs> and iirc they do provide full keil support, right
2019-07-21T17:05:07 < dongs> Steffanx: youve done some fucking with it?
2019-07-21T17:05:32 < dongs> holy shit nordic docs site uses same shit arm.com
2019-07-21T17:05:35 < dongs> infocenter or wahtever
2019-07-21T17:05:37 < dongs> so its slow as ballz
2019-07-21T17:05:44 < dongs> and nothing is available as pdf fucking shit lol
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2019-07-21T17:08:32 < con3> hmm.. dac is 12 bit and dma half word, might be the issue
2019-07-21T17:10:25 < salcedo> qyx: https://github.com/salcedo/stm32-rfm9x/blob/master/src/main.c#L40-L56
2019-07-21T17:10:41 < salcedo> this works, but i think it is still incorrect
2019-07-21T17:11:19 < salcedo> what is happening now is i reset, then i am getting the correct response, then 0, then correct, then 0, then correct every time.
2019-07-21T17:11:56 < salcedo> this is a consistent pattern every time i reset the stm32
2019-07-21T17:15:36 < englishman> dongs: what price range
2019-07-21T17:15:53 < englishman> is this for cheap fuckoff shit or do you want pro shit
2019-07-21T17:16:00 < dongs> for the BLE trash? well, its like $2-3 for nrf, i'll just hve to suffer through it :)
2019-07-21T17:16:03 < dongs> cheap fuckoff hobby shit
2019-07-21T17:16:07 < englishman> ok
2019-07-21T17:16:15 < dongs> STM32 sounds great but also sounds expensive af
2019-07-21T17:16:17 < dongs> and not in china
2019-07-21T17:16:27 < englishman> nah you know the libs will be shit
2019-07-21T17:16:33 < dongs> looks like nordic no longer requires registering to download any of the shit
2019-07-21T17:16:39 < englishman> there is pro panasonic or Toshiba stuff or something
2019-07-21T17:16:47 < dongs> i recall when I was working on the bluetooth dildo i had to sign up and give serial# of my dongle before i could grab anything
2019-07-21T17:17:54 < dongs> https://github.com/sandeepmistry/arduino-nRF5 o fuck yeah
2019-07-21T17:17:55 < dongs> im done
2019-07-21T17:19:13 < englishman> why not esp32
2019-07-21T17:19:22 < dongs> baterry powered ble trash
2019-07-21T17:19:40 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOfpG37WCLk i thought this trash got arrested? why is it back posting digsuting videos
2019-07-21T17:21:05 < Steffanx> Why do you even care/open the channel?
2019-07-21T17:21:16 < dongs> cuz someone posted a twat abbout arrest like a week ago
2019-07-21T17:21:19 < dongs> so i wanted to make sure its gone
2019-07-21T17:21:20 < dongs> but sadly no
2019-07-21T17:22:11 < englishman> luckily I didn't click but still know who you are on about
2019-07-21T17:22:17 < dongs> yeah not worth a click
2019-07-21T17:22:25 < englishman> answer: would be absolutely useless in a forced labour camp
2019-07-21T17:22:25 < dongs> bought $3 shit from aliexpress without waiting for shipping
2019-07-21T17:26:13 < salcedo> yeah i'm totally missing something about spi
2019-07-21T17:26:54 < salcedo> i set data size to 8 bit, fifo threshold to 8 bit
2019-07-21T17:28:40 < salcedo>     spi_send8(SPI1, 0x42);
2019-07-21T17:28:41 < salcedo>     ver = spi_xfer(SPI1, 0x42);
2019-07-21T17:34:46 < con3> yay dma sinewave dac thing works
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2019-07-21T17:48:23 < salcedo> i have to use spi_send8 and read8. spi_xfer has some weird behavior.
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2019-07-21T17:55:01 < salcedo> it's because send8/read8 uses SPI_DR8
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2019-07-21T18:18:32 < salcedo> qyx: it works now. i still don't fully understand why. but the pattern i have to use is send8, read8 for each byte. even if i'm just sending.
2019-07-21T18:19:10 < salcedo> err writing. suppose i am writing to the sx1276's fifo to transmit, i must send8 and read8 each byte. if i send8 each byte only, no bueno.
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2019-07-21T18:20:26 < Cracki> *that* was the problem?
2019-07-21T18:20:31 < salcedo> spi_write, spi_read, spi_xfer all no bueno. they use SPI_DR instead of SPI_DR8
2019-07-21T18:21:09 < salcedo> /* Read the data (8 or 16 bits, depending on DFF bit) from DR. */
2019-07-21T18:21:25 < salcedo> right... depending on DFF bit.
2019-07-21T18:21:48 < Cracki> spi itself shouldn't even have notions like "send" and "read"
2019-07-21T18:22:03 < Cracki> spi is always shifting something out while getting something in.
2019-07-21T18:22:20 < Cracki> target device *register* access is layered on top
2019-07-21T18:23:32 < salcedo> i don't know what DFF bit is.
2019-07-21T18:23:52 < salcedo> it's not in CR1 or CR2. must be somewhere else?
2019-07-21T18:24:27 < Cracki> should be in cr1
2019-07-21T18:24:31 < Cracki> or it's not applicable to your chip
2019-07-21T18:24:39 < Cracki> or maybe elsewhere... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-07-21T18:24:45 < salcedo> there is a DS field and FRXTH in CR2
2019-07-21T18:25:04 < salcedo> i have set these to be 8 bit
2019-07-21T18:25:38 < Cracki> sx1276's datasheet, section 3.4
2019-07-21T18:26:20 < salcedo> you mean 4.3
2019-07-21T18:26:24 < Cracki> yes
2019-07-21T18:26:37 < Cracki> not sure what "whr" is because their bitmap resolution is shit
2019-07-21T18:26:43 < salcedo> that's wnr
2019-07-21T18:26:47 < Cracki> ah
2019-07-21T18:26:56 < salcedo> it's what they call the write bit
2019-07-21T18:26:59 < Cracki> ic
2019-07-21T18:27:22 < salcedo> when you are writing to a register, you set that bit high. the register address is always 7 bits, with that wnr bit represeting reading or writing
2019-07-21T18:27:28 < Cracki> so you have three access types, single being the simplest
2019-07-21T18:27:52 < Cracki> always address and data, or address and dummy data for reading
2019-07-21T18:28:21 < salcedo> right. what is confusing the shit out of me is why this worked on HAL without a fuss by using the pattern: HAL_SPI_Transmit(), HAL_SPI_Receive
2019-07-21T18:28:38 < Cracki> what *did* you transmit with the hal apis
2019-07-21T18:28:42 < Cracki> a single byte?
2019-07-21T18:28:44 < salcedo> yep
2019-07-21T18:28:49 < Cracki> single byte MUST NOT work
2019-07-21T18:28:49 < salcedo> well... at least i THINK i did.
2019-07-21T18:29:31 < Cracki> also, those are probably not spi-level functions but "register access" level apis
2019-07-21T18:29:41 < Cracki> or mixed... so it works purely by accident
2019-07-21T18:29:57 < salcedo> right.
2019-07-21T18:30:08 < salcedo> the HAL stuff must be taking care of the rxfifo for me
2019-07-21T18:30:15 < Cracki> I'm browsing the source for those rn
2019-07-21T18:30:35 < salcedo> in my now-working libopencm3 implementation of the lib, i need to send8, read8 for each access whether it be read or write.
2019-07-21T18:31:03 < salcedo> the thing i don't understand is why this doesn't work with spi_write, spi_xfer, spi_read the way i would think they're supposed to.
2019-07-21T18:31:10 < Cracki> i love weird apis that don't explain what and why
2019-07-21T18:31:18 < salcedo> the only difference being that those latter functions use SPI_DR instead of SPI_DR8
2019-07-21T18:31:37 < Cracki> 8/16 bit? sounds like that's obviously trouble
2019-07-21T18:31:55 < salcedo> well.
2019-07-21T18:32:06 < salcedo> in the comment for spi_xfer for example, it says depending on DFF bit.
2019-07-21T18:32:10 < Cracki> you'd have to send (wnr << 15) | (addr < 8) | (wdata) as a 16 bit number
2019-07-21T18:32:21 < Cracki> addr << 8
2019-07-21T18:32:30 < Cracki> if that does what I think it does
2019-07-21T18:32:30 < salcedo> that doesn't make any sense either
2019-07-21T18:32:33 < salcedo> no
2019-07-21T18:32:34 < Cracki> why not
2019-07-21T18:32:43 < Cracki> what else should 16 bit transfers mean
2019-07-21T18:32:46 < salcedo> it would be (addr | wnr) << 8
2019-07-21T18:32:52 < Cracki> eh, details
2019-07-21T18:33:01 < salcedo> but
2019-07-21T18:33:13 < Cracki> I assumed wnr is 0 or 1, but if it's 0/128 that's fine too
2019-07-21T18:33:27 < salcedo> wnr is a bit, not a byte.
2019-07-21T18:33:44 < Cracki> nevermind
2019-07-21T18:33:46 < salcedo> lol
2019-07-21T18:34:12 < salcedo> anyway. the thing that confuses me is this 16 vs 8 bit mumbo jumbo with spi_write/spi_read/spi_xfer
2019-07-21T18:34:29 < salcedo> if i set data size and fifo threshold to 8 bits, i'm assuming that these functions will then work as 8 bit transfers
2019-07-21T18:34:39 < salcedo> ignoring most significant 8 bits
2019-07-21T18:34:55 < salcedo> but that's not the case
2019-07-21T18:35:43 < salcedo> i still have to set the CR2 register up for 8 bit transfers, AND use SPI_DR8 (some macro to represent maybe that lower part of the 16 bit data register maybe?)
2019-07-21T18:35:56 < salcedo> hence send8/read8
2019-07-21T18:36:46 < salcedo> so either i'm totally misunderstanding something, this stm32l496zg is weird, or nobody runs code that works with SPI on stm32... it's all just copypasta for blog cred.
2019-07-21T18:38:37 < zyp> the v2 of the SPI peripheral is like that
2019-07-21T18:38:43 < Cracki> do you have a scope or a logic analyzer
2019-07-21T18:39:02 < zyp> v1 doesn't have a fifo and therefore doesn't distinguish between transfer sizes
2019-07-21T18:39:28 < zyp> but v2 treats a 16-bit transfer like two bytes and throws both in the fifo
2019-07-21T18:40:07 < zyp> you might be looking at code for chips with v1 periph (f1, f4, etc…)
2019-07-21T18:40:10 < Cracki> zyp, would you know where in data sheets the SPI peripheral's version is clearly labeled? or is that guessed from looking at its specifics
2019-07-21T18:40:43 < zyp> I don't think it is labeled, I'm just calling them v1/v2 etc to distinguish, based on whether they have differences and which appeared first
2019-07-21T18:40:51 < Cracki> so far, the only version info I've found is buried in cubemx xml files
2019-07-21T18:43:27 < Cracki> so when someone asks a newbie to determine his spi's version without explaining, that can be considered useless :)
2019-07-21T18:43:42 < salcedo> yea that is another thing i got confused about was v1 vs v2
2019-07-21T18:43:59 < salcedo> send8/read8 are only part of v2 code
2019-07-21T18:44:00 < Cracki> he didn't explain, you couldn't have answered that
2019-07-21T18:44:44 < Cracki> mean someone who hasn't talked in the last 20 minutes ;)
2019-07-21T18:48:36 < salcedo> it's a mystery then. i've been running a test program transmitting a packet every 5 seconds and so far so good
2019-07-21T18:48:47 < Cracki> great :P
2019-07-21T18:49:04 < Laurenceb> incel timecube tbh
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2019-07-21T20:11:45 < salcedo> I consent that STMicroelectronics Int. N.V. (as data controller) collects and uses features usage statistics (directly or by ST affiliates)
2019-07-21T20:11:47 < salcedo> when I use the application, for the purpose of continuously improving the application.
2019-07-21T20:15:16 < Steffanx> yw
2019-07-21T20:25:00 < salcedo> it didn't make me re-download all the firmware which is nice :)
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2019-07-21T20:59:35 < qyx> salcedo: yeah on spiv2 there is that problem with read8 and read
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2019-07-21T21:00:37 < qyx> also spi_xfer doesn't work like send8/read8, I had the same problem
2019-07-21T21:00:43 < qyx> so yes, you are right
2019-07-21T21:00:52 < qyx> you have to implement spi_xfer using those two functions
2019-07-21T21:01:04 < salcedo> ok now i'm on to exti
2019-07-21T21:01:15 < salcedo> in examples, i see them enabling AFIO
2019-07-21T21:01:23 < salcedo> stm32l4 doesn't have RCC_AFIO defined
2019-07-21T21:01:39 < salcedo> reference manual doesn't explain what this is
2019-07-21T21:01:52 < salcedo> "google" doesn't yet either
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2019-07-21T21:09:41 < HexaCube> ahaaah, the channel exists! 
2019-07-21T21:09:44 < HexaCube> hey folks
2019-07-21T21:10:14 < HexaCube> I somehow broke my STLink earlier, now when trying to upload code from Platformio I get the error: "Error: init mode failed (unable to connect to the target)"
2019-07-21T21:10:23 < HexaCube> it seems like the STLink isn't properly recognized anymore?
2019-07-21T21:11:10 < HexaCube> can someone maybe help me troubleshoot the issue?
2019-07-21T21:11:46 < mawk> hi
2019-07-21T21:12:01 < mawk> check wiring
2019-07-21T21:12:12 < HexaCube> wiring is correct :P
2019-07-21T21:14:40 < mawk> so you didn't touch it after it stopped working
2019-07-21T21:14:48 < mawk> you tried cycling the stm32 itself ?
2019-07-21T21:16:23 < HexaCube> I was trying to get the USB-Bootloader running. So I uploaded a little sketch to the BluePill using the STLkink no problem. Then I flashed the USB-Bootloader using STLink with the utility. Bluepill wasn't properly recognized over USB, so I tried flashing the old sketch back using the STLink again
2019-07-21T21:16:40 < HexaCube> now I can't get it to connect anymore, getting the error mentioned above
2019-07-21T21:16:50 < HexaCube> it was during the OpenOCD init
2019-07-21T21:16:53 < HexaCube> *it fails
2019-07-21T21:23:24 < PaulFertser> HexaCube: you can switch bootloader jumper to activate it (on UART), then you'll be able to connect over SWD.
2019-07-21T21:23:43 < PaulFertser> HexaCube: or you should connect the srst line to the target board and use "reset_config connect_assert_srst"
2019-07-21T21:28:30 < HexaCube> setting the jumpers to what position?
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2019-07-21T21:32:19 < mawk> set BOOT0 to 1
2019-07-21T21:33:06 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
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2019-07-21T21:37:52 < HexaCube> woooot, that did the trick!!
2019-07-21T21:37:56 < HexaCube> what does changing it to 1 do?
2019-07-21T21:38:15 < PaulFertser> HexaCube: makes it run UART bootloader instead of your code.
2019-07-21T21:38:41 < HexaCube> I see, now that I flashed the old code I can return to BOOT0 to 0 aswell
2019-07-21T21:38:45 < HexaCube> perfect, and good to know
2019-07-21T21:38:47 < HexaCube> thanks a lot!
2019-07-21T21:39:23 < PaulFertser> HexaCube: if you connect SRST line physically you'll be able to use stlink regardless of the code and jumper position.
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2019-07-21T22:08:49 < salcedo> Cracki: got interrupts working. at this point it is functionally the same as my HAL version, but 10K smaller :)
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2019-07-21T22:21:24 < Cracki> how did that happen
2019-07-21T22:21:40 < Cracki> does HAL do so much on top or what
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2019-07-21T22:36:45 < salcedo> yea
2019-07-21T22:37:56 < salcedo> hal adds a little bit more abstraction in the form of callback functions. the code do do things like spi transfer have more shit going on than a while loop and SPI_DR = data
2019-07-21T22:38:57 < salcedo> setup functions have every possible register flag being set, even if it's implied/defaulted.
2019-07-21T22:39:19 < salcedo> it all adds up
2019-07-21T22:39:23 < mawk> you can try LL
2019-07-21T22:39:27 < salcedo> LL?
2019-07-21T22:39:33 < mawk> it's packaged alongside HAL in st libs
2019-07-21T22:39:40 < mawk> for low level
2019-07-21T22:39:46 < salcedo> oh
2019-07-21T22:40:04 < salcedo> i'm not complaining. just making an observation.
2019-07-21T22:40:06 < mawk> it has all the good sugar of having register names and helpful functions, but lower level
2019-07-21T22:40:39 < salcedo> rewrote my driver using libopencm3 instead of HAL
2019-07-21T22:40:45 < mawk> ah good
2019-07-21T22:41:00 < salcedo> no real reason to other than to learn more. and that i did.
2019-07-21T22:41:15 < salcedo> using HAL, i would have never spent as much time in the reference manual for this mcu
2019-07-21T22:41:28 < salcedo> because they do all the hard mode shit for you
2019-07-21T22:42:32 < salcedo> reducing binary size was not the main reason to switch - but it is a noticable feature :)
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2019-07-21T22:57:45 < Steffanx> Welcome kakimir, did you enjoy the trip to the 90s?
2019-07-21T22:58:25 < kakimir> I'm in 90's now
2019-07-21T23:02:01 < Steffanx> Good good. Whats happening then?
2019-07-21T23:03:11 < kakimir> i'm in empty barracks
2019-07-21T23:03:37 < salcedo> take me to the 90's
2019-07-21T23:03:53 < kakimir> let's try
2019-07-21T23:03:59 < salcedo> i don't want to be in this 2019 cyberpunk agenda 2030 shithole anymore. start the time machine!
2019-07-21T23:05:05 < kakimir> what age are you salcedo?
2019-07-21T23:05:10 < Steffanx> So here, try again kakimir: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIa7FAopAtg
2019-07-21T23:05:24 < kakimir> it's important to know for operation of music time machine
2019-07-21T23:05:25 < salcedo> i want to interact with real people who have individuality and critical thought. take me to the 90's!
2019-07-21T23:05:47 < kakimir> is there heaven?
2019-07-21T23:06:08 < salcedo> heaven does not exist. no.
2019-07-21T23:06:14 < Cracki> TIL: lumbar puncture with ultrasound https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndnZxAcNjdg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbqETxLurS0
2019-07-21T23:06:18 < salcedo> only Elysium and the NPCs who reside there.
2019-07-21T23:06:41 < kakimir> Steffanx: hell yeah
2019-07-21T23:06:43 < Cracki> not literally learned, just watching House MD and started wondering
2019-07-21T23:06:57 < Steffanx> I cannot imagine you had such conversations in the "scene" with that "music" you posted earlier, salcedo :P
2019-07-21T23:07:09 < Steffanx> such interaction*
2019-07-21T23:07:21 < Steffanx> earlier = like a week ago
2019-07-21T23:07:46 < kakimir> I have heard this song from my fav radio station so many times this summer
2019-07-21T23:08:19 < salcedo> Steffanx: naw.
2019-07-21T23:08:44 < salcedo> Steffanx: take me back to the 90's with to have conversations with insane people on drugs!
2019-07-21T23:09:30 < salcedo> i don't want to be in this place where machines tell people to instagram pictures of 1/2-eaten high fructose corn pellets to get rebates on more amazon echos.
2019-07-21T23:10:26 < kakimir> in 90's there was only email, irc and bulletin boards
2019-07-21T23:10:43 < salcedo> we need to go back to that.
2019-07-21T23:10:45 < kakimir> so organic
2019-07-21T23:10:51 < jpa-> why would you even look at instagram or any medium where they people such things?
2019-07-21T23:10:54 < jpa-> +tell
2019-07-21T23:11:25 < kakimir> because of checking them chicks
2019-07-21T23:11:34 < kakimir> *dem chicks
2019-07-21T23:11:47 < mawk> lol
2019-07-21T23:12:08 < salcedo> them what? isn't instagram 90% photoshopped plastic people?
2019-07-21T23:12:18 < salcedo> credit floaters
2019-07-21T23:12:53 < englishman> kakimir is blue da ba dee
2019-07-21T23:21:00 < kakimir> yes
2019-07-21T23:21:18 < kakimir> but as it's megahit there is no sense of discovery in that song
2019-07-21T23:21:45 < kakimir> to activate time travel you need the sense of discovery
2019-07-21T23:23:24 < Steffanx> time for kakimir's resurrection https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rce8QnuFRVk
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2019-07-21T23:24:00 < Steffanx> although that's not 90s :P
2019-07-21T23:24:27 < kakimir> it's not 90's
2019-07-21T23:24:31 < kakimir> it's 2000's
2019-07-21T23:24:36 < Steffanx> i know
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2019-07-21T23:30:46 < kakimir> X-Perience, Dune, U96
2019-07-21T23:30:58 < Cracki> https://pics.me.me/sleepovers-then-and-now-1980-2013-1990-we-have-to-5390609.png
2019-07-21T23:31:33 < kakimir> Capella, 2 Unlimited
2019-07-21T23:31:45 < kakimir> Prodigy!
2019-07-21T23:33:15 < kakimir> yeah I think I go to heat up wood burning sauna stove>
2019-07-21T23:33:18 < Cracki> a man of class
2019-07-21T23:33:54 < kakimir> bye
2019-07-21T23:34:24 < kakimir> the shamen
2019-07-21T23:34:27 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b2T8K2D-ps
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2019-07-21T23:36:50 < qyx> if you want to know whats 90s
2019-07-21T23:37:12 < qyx> a 16550A uart on a apollo lake CPU
2019-07-21T23:37:27 < qyx> in 2019
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2019-07-21T23:44:23 < specing> qyx: such is life when you have to support legacy stuff
2019-07-21T23:44:36 < specing> instead you could buy a brand new IBM POWER9 CPU that can only run Linux
2019-07-21T23:44:59 < specing> which doesen't have 90s stuff in it
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2019-07-21T23:49:58 < friendofafriend> Even the older POWER stuff is tempting.
2019-07-21T23:51:49 < specing> not as tempting as POWER9
2019-07-21T23:51:57 < specing> power9 cpus are both cheaper and much, much more open
2019-07-21T23:52:05 < specing> even the microcode is open
2019-07-21T23:57:56 < Cracki> my fucking god! that neuralink paper contains plots of the same kind they showed in the movie Transcendence (2014).
--- Day changed Mon Jul 22 2019
2019-07-22T00:02:22 < salcedo> never saw that movie
2019-07-22T00:02:29 < salcedo> but neuralink is going to be great
2019-07-22T00:03:07 < salcedo> imagine an entire population of NPCs, fully programmable, available as a service through cloud providers of your choice.
2019-07-22T00:04:35 < salcedo> they think serverless is the next big leap? naw... it's all about running code on the collective human hive mind.
2019-07-22T00:06:22 < salcedo> automation kicked you out of a job? no worries. collect this UBI. all we ask in exchange for it is to use 99% of your brain as a hypervisor for our customers to run their javashit. you weren't using it anyway. :)
2019-07-22T00:07:19 < Cracki> finally those meatbags will get a purpose
2019-07-22T00:08:32 < Cracki> tesla will have its automobile fleet. instagram will have a fleet of floozies you can drive
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2019-07-22T00:09:19 < salcedo> did you see the black mirror episode about the cockroaches?
2019-07-22T00:09:26 < salcedo> neuralink will do that at society scale
2019-07-22T00:10:06 < salcedo> they'll finally be able to genocide entire swaths of undesirable DNA in the open, while augmenting the mess of it out of the way.
2019-07-22T00:10:16 < Cracki> don't call them cockroaches! they're a proud people of food cart vendors!
2019-07-22T00:10:43 < Cracki> you're thinking in movie scripts
2019-07-22T00:10:52 < Cracki> a practical path would be sterilization
2019-07-22T00:11:15 < salcedo> if we're thinking practically, that path isn't a 'would be'
2019-07-22T00:11:22 < Cracki> or simply not dropping crates of food into countries to keep them dependent
2019-07-22T00:11:24 < salcedo> it's a 'already happened'
2019-07-22T00:12:13 < salcedo> we need neuralink and AI and AR to erase the sterilization that already happened.
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2019-07-22T00:26:43 < scrts> did anyone ever see a microcontroller with WiFi, that would do like 50-60Mbps?
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2019-07-22T00:27:29 < scrts> or an easily interfaced module/transceiver? So I could interface it to STM32F4 or so
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2019-07-22T00:49:51 < zyp> what do you need 50-60 Mb/s for? how are you expecting to feed data into the MCU that fast in the first place?
2019-07-22T00:50:40 < zyp> SPI modules are probably out of the question, SDIO might work
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2019-07-22T00:50:58 < zyp> or maybe USB would be a better bet
2019-07-22T00:51:49 < englishman> raspberry pi.
2019-07-22T01:05:18 < Lux> scrts: https://docs.espressif.com/projects/esp-idf/en/latest/api-guides/wifi.html#esp32-wi-fi-throughput
2019-07-22T01:06:39 < zyp> Lux, so apparently not over 30 Mb/s outside a test box?
2019-07-22T01:07:01 < Lux> yeah, but on 2.4ghz you won't do more anyway
2019-07-22T01:07:16 < Lux> in an urban area that is
2019-07-22T01:07:48 < Lux> without mimo
2019-07-22T01:08:44 < zyp> scrts didn't specify it should be 2.4G SISO
2019-07-22T01:08:55 < qyx> a 72MHz F107 is able to generate about 60Mbps of zeroes of UDP data
2019-07-22T01:09:12 < qyx> I don't think you can get anything near that even on F4 with anything
2019-07-22T01:09:19 < Lux> then I'm with englishman on the rpi :)
2019-07-22T01:09:20 < qyx> doing anything more than just writing nothing
2019-07-22T01:09:21 < zyp> qyx, wat?
2019-07-22T01:09:39 < qyx> errrr
2019-07-22T01:10:25 < qyx> F107 doing nothing, just sending zeroes with lwip over ethernet at 100% utilization makes about 60Mbps
2019-07-22T01:11:00 < zyp> 100% utilization of what?
2019-07-22T01:11:09 < qyx> of the cpu
2019-07-22T01:11:35 < qyx> ie. the stack itself was the bottlenect
2019-07-22T01:11:38 < qyx> *neck
2019-07-22T01:12:31 < zyp> 1500B is 12kb, so 60 Mb/s is around 5kpps at standard MTU
2019-07-22T01:13:10 < qyx> those are just ballpark values at maximum MTU
2019-07-22T01:14:19 < zyp> as long as you're talking about throughput in bits or bytes it doesn't make sense to do less than max MTU
2019-07-22T01:14:38 < zyp> and 5kpps sounds really low to me
2019-07-22T01:17:00 < zyp> the MAC uses DMA for transfers and IIRC it can also calculate and inject checksums automatically, so the cpu shouldn't really have much to do apart from scheduling transfers
2019-07-22T01:17:56 < qyx> yes but you are taling about the mac peripheral ignoring unoptimal ip stack and stuff
2019-07-22T01:18:06 < zyp> yes
2019-07-22T01:18:30 < qyx> and considering wifi over sdio or whatever
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2019-07-22T01:19:19 < zyp> as long as we're talking about what hardware selection, IMO we're discussing what the hardware can do, not what some shitty software can't
2019-07-22T01:19:38 < zyp> -what
2019-07-22T01:19:52 < qyx> true
2019-07-22T01:20:06 < qyx> but at that speed it may be the case any software is actually a shitty software
2019-07-22T01:20:20 < aandrew> qyx> a 72MHz F107 is able to generate about 60Mbps of zeroes of UDP data
2019-07-22T01:20:23 < aandrew> that's actually pretty impressive
2019-07-22T01:20:32 < qyx> when I was sampling 4 ADCs at 3Msps (F303)
2019-07-22T01:20:44 < zyp> aandrew, no, it's really underwhelming
2019-07-22T01:20:45 < qyx> thats 4*3*16bit = 192mbit/s
2019-07-22T01:20:57 < qyx> I was not able to do anything with the data
2019-07-22T01:21:09 < qyx> except using ADC watchdog to stop the thing
2019-07-22T01:21:11 < zyp> I'm sure if it had a GMAC, it could easily saturate a gigabit link with UDP data if you just throw out lwip
2019-07-22T01:21:12 < qyx> and then postprocess it
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2019-07-22T01:25:10 < zyp> in my work project I have a task that spends like 7% cpu both sending and receiving packets at like 5kpps each, including filling packets to send and handling received packets
2019-07-22T01:25:54 < aandrew> oh, Mb not MB
2019-07-22T01:26:09 < zyp> small packets, but since both send and receive are DMA based it's not like increasing the size would increase cpu usage of that
2019-07-22T01:27:05 < zyp> and as long as we're talking sending zeros, filling is free since you could just set up the buffer once
2019-07-22T01:27:16 < aandrew> right
2019-07-22T01:28:30 < zyp> I guess the reason lwip doesn't do more is that it copies the buffer
2019-07-22T01:28:39 < zyp> but can't lwip be configured for zerocopy?
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2019-07-22T01:29:45 < kakimir> good sauna
2019-07-22T01:29:49 < kakimir> very good
2019-07-22T01:31:44 < qyx> I was really sending zeroes with lwip and not using any shortcuts
2019-07-22T01:31:55 < qyx> socket interface of lwip is not zerocopy
2019-07-22T01:31:59 < qyx> only the native one
2019-07-22T01:32:23 < qyx> so thats part of the problem probably
2019-07-22T01:32:32 < zyp> yeah
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2019-07-22T01:32:45 < kakimir> what is zero copy?
2019-07-22T01:33:01 < zyp> exactly what it says
2019-07-22T01:33:19 < qyx> I was sending zeroes over udp
2019-07-22T01:33:26 < qyx> and lwip was copying the zeroes
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2019-07-22T01:33:31 < zyp> when you do udp_send(blah), it tells DMA to copy from the buffer blah points to
2019-07-22T01:33:32 < qyx> instead of doing a zero copy
2019-07-22T01:33:46 < zyp> rather than copying the data into a new buffer and doing DMA from that
2019-07-22T01:34:11 < kakimir> is it like direct memory access
2019-07-22T01:34:19 < qyx> heh, I failed at that later
2019-07-22T01:34:24 < zyp> what do you think DMA means?
2019-07-22T01:34:48 < qyx> chibios, DMA for UART, task stack allocated from CCM
2019-07-22T01:34:55 < zyp> but no, DMA != zerocopy
2019-07-22T01:35:23 < kakimir> DMA is used in implementation of zerocopy routine?
2019-07-22T01:35:39 < zyp> zerocopy is the idea that when you read data into a buffer, you write it directly out of the same buffer again
2019-07-22T01:35:51 < zyp> without copying it between intermediate buffers
2019-07-22T01:35:59 < kakimir> ok
2019-07-22T01:36:04 < qyx> so you are not allowed to do uint8_t buf[2] = {meh, bah}; uart_send(buf, 2);
2019-07-22T01:37:30 < zyp> that's the problem when you try using special memory in a generic way
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2019-07-22T01:39:04 < kakimir> how do you perform zero copy
2019-07-22T01:39:34 < kakimir> does it have a handle or pointer or what
2019-07-22T01:40:22 < kakimir> I'm just night rambling btw.
2019-07-22T01:41:18 < kakimir> maybe sleep?
2019-07-22T01:41:43 < kakimir> >
2019-07-22T01:48:35 < zyp> yeah, you just pass around the pointer
2019-07-22T01:49:29 < zyp> and deal with ownership/lifetime requirements
2019-07-22T01:49:44 < zyp> i.e. you can't modify/delete the buffer before it has been consumed
2019-07-22T01:50:00 < zyp> with a plain copying API, it would be consumed before the send function returns
2019-07-22T01:50:07 < kakimir> https://github.com/lsgunth/lwip_contrib
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2019-07-22T01:53:45 < kakimir> fatboy slim
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2019-07-22T01:59:38 < kakimir> terabyte of ssd is now 100eur
2019-07-22T02:00:07 < kakimir> remember when 1GB = 1eur?
2019-07-22T02:01:54 < kakimir> last time I bought ssd 500GB was like 130eur
2019-07-22T02:02:11 < kakimir> anyhow. sleep>
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2019-07-22T02:14:30 < dongs> what STM32 is this?
2019-07-22T02:14:36 < dongs> there's the queue depth stuff on F3 and friends
2019-07-22T02:14:43 < dongs> oh, i was scrolled the fuck up
2019-07-22T02:14:55 < dongs> to salcedo's retarded problem
2019-07-22T02:15:37 < salcedo> it's stm32l496zgAESwackshyte
2019-07-22T02:15:46 < dongs> so new SPI thing then
2019-07-22T02:15:50 < dongs> withqueue
2019-07-22T02:16:05 < salcedo> with queue do you mean the data packing shiz?
2019-07-22T02:16:09 < dongs> no
2019-07-22T02:16:27 < salcedo> i didn't see anything in ref manual about this
2019-07-22T02:16:36 < salcedo> unless you're talking about some sort of queuing stuff in libopencm3?
2019-07-22T02:17:10 < dongs> SPI_RxFIFOThresholdConfig in stdperiphlib no idea wahts it in cube
2019-07-22T02:19:51 < salcedo> in libopencm3 that is... spi_fifo_reception_threshold_8bit()
2019-07-22T02:20:11 < salcedo> sets the FRXTH flag in SPI_CR2
2019-07-22T02:20:12 < dongs> i remember without setting that i would get weird results reading shit back
2019-07-22T02:20:18 < salcedo> thing is
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2019-07-22T02:20:55 < salcedo> i do notice a difference in behavior when it is set vs not set.
2019-07-22T02:21:12 < salcedo> when it is set, there is still a weird "windowing" problem anyway.
2019-07-22T02:21:42 < qyx> did you check the waveforms with a scope?
2019-07-22T02:22:14 < salcedo> as qyx said earlier, to make it work i had to implement spi_xfer using send8/read8 because those functions use SPI_DR8 instead of SPI_DR
2019-07-22T02:22:24 < dongs> right
2019-07-22T02:22:35 < salcedo> qyx: wtf do you think i am, elysium grade transhuman?
2019-07-22T02:23:26 < salcedo> i don't have a scope... yet. not until i get an extra $80 or w/e for something small but "good enough" off banggood
2019-07-22T02:23:36 < dongs> $80 scope
2019-07-22T02:23:37 < dongs> sounds
2019-07-22T02:23:39 < dongs> quality
2019-07-22T02:23:40 < dongs> as fuck
2019-07-22T02:23:44 < salcedo> shore doez
2019-07-22T02:24:21 < salcedo> every purchase has to make sense in the context of "can i take this with me while living in my car?"
2019-07-22T02:25:03 < salcedo> haven't looked to see if there are "quality" handheld scopes out there. but my point remains.
2019-07-22T02:25:18 < salcedo> below-poverty/income-tax-filing-requirement
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2019-07-22T02:36:00 < dongs> are you ohsix 2.0
2019-07-22T02:37:57 < englishman> why don't you get a $8 logic analuzer
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2019-07-22T02:46:53 < Cracki> just order a logic analyzer. 5 bucks on aliex/banggood/etc
2019-07-22T03:02:06 < jadew> unfortunately, a LA is only reliable after you've checked the signal integrity with a scope
2019-07-22T03:09:26 < jadew> what kind of scope can you get for $80?
2019-07-22T03:09:34 < jadew> got a link?
2019-07-22T03:09:51 < jadew> also, why do you live in a car?
2019-07-22T03:11:28 < catphish> this stepper motor is really very odd, it thinks it's a 3 phase motor, even though it only has 2 coils https://i.imgur.com/yWVUjyQ.png
2019-07-22T03:34:01 < jadew> does anyone here uses actual files to store project details?
2019-07-22T03:34:06 < jadew> like... on paper?
2019-07-22T03:34:31 < jadew> I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to make a folder with schematics, gerbers, notes
2019-07-22T03:39:18 < salcedo> i print out a 1:1 of the pcb to make sure things will fit
2019-07-22T03:39:20 < salcedo> that's about it
2019-07-22T03:40:10 < jadew> you didn't answer about the scope - got a link to that?
2019-07-22T03:40:21 < jadew> if it's any good, I know a couple of people who might be interested too
2019-07-22T03:40:39 < salcedo> the $80 "good enough" scope?
2019-07-22T03:40:41 < salcedo> holdon 1 sec
2019-07-22T03:40:46 < jadew> yeah
2019-07-22T03:40:48 < jadew> thanks
2019-07-22T03:41:57 < salcedo> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33020708011.html
2019-07-22T03:42:34 < salcedo> there was a dude who reviewed this on youtube with a "real" scope side by side and it was definitely a viable option. he said it is much better than the REALLY cheap ones.
2019-07-22T03:43:43 < jadew> hmm, you don't think an older scope could serve you better?
2019-07-22T03:44:40 < jadew> for $80, you can probably get an OK CRO
2019-07-22T03:44:51 < jadew> not sure how much space you have for it tho
2019-07-22T03:45:19 < salcedo> CRO no way
2019-07-22T03:45:28 < salcedo> i need something that can be thrown in a backpack
2019-07-22T03:45:35 < jadew> got it
2019-07-22T03:46:02 < salcedo> for my purposes, something like this is perfect. it's not too shitty not too great.
2019-07-22T03:46:45 < jadew> I don't think that being too great would be a problem
2019-07-22T03:47:33 < salcedo> s/great/expensive
2019-07-22T03:49:07 < salcedo> finished the receive bits. can now tx/rx lora :)
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2019-07-22T05:32:45 < jadew> damn, price of a PCB + stencil with elecrow = $40, with JLC = $15
2019-07-22T05:34:34 < jadew> and I have two designs like that
2019-07-22T05:35:13 < con3> JLC is stupid cheap compared to making it locally here (southa africa0. like 10% of the cost including shipping
2019-07-22T05:35:47 < jadew> it's cheaper than other chinese ones too, but the PCB is not the best quality
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2019-07-22T05:43:27 < Thorn> I understand they recently lowered prices significantly for >100x100mm
2019-07-22T05:43:38 < jadew> JLC?
2019-07-22T05:43:39 < Thorn> especially noticeable on multilayer boards
2019-07-22T05:43:43 < Thorn> yeah
2019-07-22T05:43:56 < jadew> yeah, this is bigger than 100x100 mm
2019-07-22T05:44:05 < jadew> for less than that it's not noticeable
2019-07-22T05:46:36 < jadew> I don't like them, but for this price, I don't see what other alternative I have
2019-07-22T05:46:44 < jadew> I actually have 3 designs, not 2
2019-07-22T05:46:54 < jadew> so I'm saving more than $100
2019-07-22T05:48:32 < jadew> their 24-hour thing is BS tho
2019-07-22T05:54:34 < jadew> I hate everyone's checkout process, including Paypal's
2019-07-22T05:54:46 < jadew> why the hell not show the FULL shipping details
2019-07-22T05:54:56 < jadew> if I can only see my name there and no company name and no phone number
2019-07-22T05:55:24 < jadew> then I'm gonna think it's wrong, or I won't know for sure that they have the right details
2019-07-22T05:56:38 < jadew> hmm, shipping with DHL is $91
2019-07-22T05:56:54 < jadew> they say my boards are 2.4 kg
2019-07-22T05:56:57 < jadew> I call that bullshit
2019-07-22T05:57:25 < jadew> ah, they have two DHLs, the other one is $31
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2019-07-22T06:08:18 < bitmask> never thought id say this, but I'm eating stroopwaffel right now
2019-07-22T06:08:48 < jadew> they're delicious
2019-07-22T06:09:07 < jadew> I like the starbucks ones a lot
2019-07-22T06:09:50 < bitmask> its tainted with ice cream and covered in caramel but close enough :) this is mcdonalds
2019-07-22T06:10:09 < jadew> didn't know they had those at mcdonalds
2019-07-22T06:10:22 < jadew> kinda hungry right now
2019-07-22T06:10:22 < bitmask> they are having a special about foods around the world
2019-07-22T06:10:29 < bitmask> this is the food from netherlands
2019-07-22T06:10:39 < bitmask> its a mcflurry 
2019-07-22T06:11:00 < jadew> I see
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2019-07-22T06:11:51 < jadew> well, I sent 7 designs out for production, now I don't even know what to do next
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2019-07-22T06:12:07 < bitmask> designs?
2019-07-22T06:12:11 < jadew> boards
2019-07-22T06:12:15 < bitmask> ahh
2019-07-22T06:12:31 < jadew> different products
2019-07-22T06:12:45 < bitmask> anything interesting?
2019-07-22T06:13:06 < bitmask> this your job or side projects or what
2019-07-22T06:13:16 < jadew> I'm trying to make it my job
2019-07-22T06:13:20 < jadew> 6 of them are prescalers
2019-07-22T06:13:31 < bitmask> hope it works out
2019-07-22T06:14:01 < jadew> thanks
2019-07-22T06:17:25 < bitmask> I need to start focusing on something that will make me money, this is useless:  https://imgur.com/a/ZcgwEgq
2019-07-22T06:17:27 < bitmask> :P
2019-07-22T06:17:50 < jadew> looks cool tho :P
2019-07-22T06:18:20 < bitmask> I wanna see what happens when I spin it at 5k+ rpm
2019-07-22T06:18:47 < jadew> aside from the noise?
2019-07-22T06:18:58 < bitmask> :)
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2019-07-22T06:33:22 < cdnChrisDvo> hello everyone.  May I ask if someone is able to take a quick peek to verify my clock config ?  I am trying to use only the internal oscillator.  Given that my demo board (stm32f030) has an external xtal, I'm not 100% sure this is working as I hope.  https://pastebin.com/xdHTFCDs
2019-07-22T06:33:24 < cdnChrisDvo> cheers.
2019-07-22T06:35:11 < Thorn> cdnChrisDvo: you're clocking from PLL which is fed from HSI. (you can easily check if HSE is on with a scope)
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2019-07-22T06:36:30 < cdnChrisDvo> @Thorn : thanks for verifying.  Sadly I only have at the moment a logic analyzer ... what pin(s) shall I inspect ?
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2019-07-22T07:03:25 < dongs> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32918394604.html geez china
2019-07-22T07:03:28 < dongs> make up your mind
2019-07-22T07:03:49 < dongs> is it oled or IPS?
2019-07-22T07:11:14 < dongs> oh wait revie wpics say its just the regular dual color 0.96" oled
2019-07-22T07:11:15 < dongs> lolz
2019-07-22T07:11:16 < dongs> 128x64 or so
2019-07-22T07:11:43 < dongs> is tehre a color version of 0.91 128x32 oled?
2019-07-22T07:12:01 < dongs> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32716147339.html
2019-07-22T07:25:50 < emeb_mac> not that I've seen
2019-07-22T07:26:02 < emeb_mac> only 128x64 or 128x128
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2019-07-22T08:31:06 < qyx>  
2019-07-22T08:31:06 < qyx>  
2019-07-22T08:31:13 < qyx> meh
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2019-07-22T09:07:11 < dongs> hmm 128x64 is kinda shitty
2019-07-22T09:07:14 < dongs> i want something long
2019-07-22T09:07:20 < dongs> like 256x64 or so
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2019-07-22T09:23:50 < bitmask> put two side by side :)
2019-07-22T09:24:09 < bitmask> :P
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2019-07-22T11:26:16 < nopeman> hi i'm looking for some guide/guidance to stm32f3 with HAL
2019-07-22T11:26:29 < nopeman> i got some issues with USART
2019-07-22T11:27:21 < dongs> tried looking at examples?
2019-07-22T12:00:12 < nopeman> yep, i tried, but everywhere they expected to setup clock and it didn't work in my environment
2019-07-22T12:00:29 < nopeman> i'm using linux and docker for stm32
2019-07-22T12:00:34  * jly hides
2019-07-22T12:01:34 < nopeman> and i supposed to get all UART transmition on minicom 
2019-07-22T12:02:39 < nopeman> they told me to just check documentation for all my questions and i'm pretty much noob with it
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2019-07-22T12:07:38 < qyx> what exactly did not work?
2019-07-22T12:08:24 < nopeman> well i don't have output from board
2019-07-22T12:10:01 < nopeman> https://www.paste.org/99692
2019-07-22T12:10:08 < nopeman> that's my code for uart
2019-07-22T12:10:21 < nopeman> idk about monitor
2019-07-22T12:10:30 < nopeman> i think i'm missing something
2019-07-22T12:11:32 < nopeman> you mean 9600 8n1?
2019-07-22T12:12:28 < nopeman> this using minicom 2.7.1
2019-07-22T12:12:40 < nopeman> i got it configured gor 9600 8n1
2019-07-22T12:13:11 < nopeman> i should get some output at all with this code? it compiles and everything...
2019-07-22T12:15:16 < nopeman> I thought this program should handle configuration, i just set up proper baud and rest...
2019-07-22T12:15:42 < dongs> lol docker shit
2019-07-22T12:15:43 < dongs> faggots
2019-07-22T12:16:47 < Steffanx> *triggered*
2019-07-22T12:18:10 < nopeman> well i didn't choose it, it was given to me for task setup :/
2019-07-22T12:19:18 < jly> this channel has a very welcoming friendly atmosphere 
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2019-07-22T12:25:41 < benishor> finally, progress https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOf_8ElETnY
2019-07-22T12:26:13 < benishor> I had a very annoying issue related to lcd flickering
2019-07-22T12:26:44 < benishor> it's even more annoying I'm a virgin at this hw platform and don't get all the intricacies
2019-07-22T12:27:11 < benishor> after a lot of googling I disabled d cache and the flickering was gone
2019-07-22T12:27:26 < benishor> I don't understand how or why that worked but it did
2019-07-22T12:28:14 < Steffanx> Do you use dma et all?
2019-07-22T12:28:56 < benishor> I use the cmsis bsp drivers. I suppose they use dma
2019-07-22T12:29:38 < dongs> benishor: when this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwCxkLZRuN0
2019-07-22T12:30:20 < benishor> dongs: yup, somebody more advanced than me in their work
2019-07-22T12:30:37 < benishor> I'm taking my time though, slowly getting there, creating the hardware and the software on my own
2019-07-22T12:31:10 < benishor> dongs: any idea on where I might find that font used for frequency reading in the video you pasted?
2019-07-22T12:31:59 < benishor> also, that lcd looks considerably larger than what I use. I use the stm32f746 discovery board
2019-07-22T12:32:24 < dongs> you mean the 7seg thing?
2019-07-22T12:32:28 < benishor> yup
2019-07-22T12:32:54 < dongs> https://www.keshikan.net/fonts-e.html
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2019-07-22T12:33:08 < dongs> im guessing it was some variation of this
2019-07-22T12:33:19 < benishor> thanks!
2019-07-22T12:36:05 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tw62NZTXJI
2019-07-22T12:36:06 < dongs> there's also this
2019-07-22T12:36:14 < dongs> i thought i saw a pretty classy one on f8disco as well
2019-07-22T12:36:31 < benishor> great
2019-07-22T12:36:33 < dongs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq2dh-OR8Ho
2019-07-22T12:36:33 < dongs> ah this
2019-07-22T12:36:35 < benishor> but mine will be even better
2019-07-22T12:36:41 < dongs> wait no thats not -disco
2019-07-22T12:36:43 < dongs> thats same guy
2019-07-22T12:36:44 < benishor> and perfectly tailored for my usage
2019-07-22T12:37:13 < benishor> it already does pretty much what I need: ssb, sideband selection, narrow/wide filters for cw and ssb
2019-07-22T12:37:22 < benishor> spectrogram, SA
2019-07-22T12:38:02 < benishor> but there's still much left to do: CW keyer, TX part, audio shaping, getting IQ from microphone, transceiver management and so on
2019-07-22T12:38:15 < benishor> and if I'm lucky and have resources left, I'll also consider memories and CAT
2019-07-22T12:38:33 < benishor> if I have find enough time between jobs and kid
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2019-07-22T13:03:05 < jadew> dongs, on the pluto, if you terminate the input, do you get random spurs?
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2019-07-22T15:17:01 < salcedo> now it's time for scale-down.
2019-07-22T15:18:32 < salcedo> stm32l082 is juuust right
2019-07-22T15:31:40  * salcedo tries to make out the blurry objects as they are tossed around in a flourish
2019-07-22T15:33:06 < salcedo> gotchas, you say? do tell!
2019-07-22T15:35:07 < salcedo> chose the part because it has TSC and USB, is part of "low power value line", 128kb or 192kb flash.
2019-07-22T15:35:36 < salcedo> though i might try to drop down to 64k
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2019-07-22T16:00:03 < con3> it looks like I might not even need the DAC? I can prob feed that LUT directly to another timer and have it generate the pwm
2019-07-22T16:00:56 < Thorn> lcsc gets $36M in investments
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2019-07-22T16:06:32 < Thorn> con3: I did a dirt cheap audio player with pwm, it works
2019-07-22T16:06:50 < Thorn> f030 + serial flash + class d amp ic
2019-07-22T16:10:08 < con3> Thorn: Yeah I was going to feed the value to an external pwm gen, but looks like I can do it with the stm's timers, just need to maybe get a relatively good external clock
2019-07-22T16:13:57 < dongs> jadew: 'terminate'? like put a 50ohm plug in it? i dont have one of those so i donno
2019-07-22T16:14:06 < jadew> dongs, yeah
2019-07-22T16:15:54 < benishor> yey, can has 7 seg fonts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl_tBHxUOGE
2019-07-22T16:16:07 < benishor> 10x for the link, dongs
2019-07-22T16:16:54 < Thorn> this kind of font needs to be slanted
2019-07-22T16:17:31 < benishor> I actually did that for the hz display
2019-07-22T16:17:49 < benishor> MHz and KHz are using a 7 segment font, Hz are using a 14seg font
2019-07-22T16:18:38 < benishor> need to turn linear magnitudes into dB at SA
2019-07-22T16:18:43 < jadew> you know why people used that font in the past?
2019-07-22T16:19:02 < benishor> I don't know. how?
2019-07-22T16:19:07 < jadew> to save money
2019-07-22T16:19:24 < jadew> not because they were readable
2019-07-22T16:20:20 < jadew> they do look vintage and cool these days, I'll grant you that
2019-07-22T16:20:33 < jadew> so I guess it depends on who you cater to
2019-07-22T16:21:55 < benishor> oic, it makes sense, sure. I just do what I think it's nice for me
2019-07-22T16:21:59 < benishor> since I'm going to use it
2019-07-22T16:22:24 < benishor> and since the lfb doesn't care, it's only a matter of taste now
2019-07-22T17:04:47 < aandrew> benishor: nice vid
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2019-07-22T17:05:03 < aandrew> benishor: which gfx lib are you using?
2019-07-22T17:09:32 < benishor> aandrew: none
2019-07-22T17:09:38 < benishor> doing it by hand
2019-07-22T17:12:50 < aandrew> wow
2019-07-22T17:12:53 < aandrew> why?
2019-07-22T17:14:09 < benishor> because I'm a noob when it comes to this platform. I have around 26 yeas of coding experience so that helps
2019-07-22T17:14:19 < benishor> but I know shit about the stm32 ecosystem 
2019-07-22T17:14:28 < benishor> just starting with it
2019-07-22T17:14:53 < aandrew> you seem to be doing pretty damn good for a newb (to the platform)
2019-07-22T17:15:02 < aandrew> what'd you work on before?
2019-07-22T17:15:54 < benishor> all sorts of things, from low to high level, mostly enterprise crap in the last years
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2019-07-22T17:43:19 < salcedo> no. u a spectroshizzle
2019-07-22T17:45:59 < salcedo> pretty panadapter display for teh FT8s
2019-07-22T17:48:03 < salcedo> surprised you hear that much cw. was it a contest weekend?
2019-07-22T17:49:32 < salcedo> i think you're off freq too a bit. what are are they doing below the band?
2019-07-22T17:51:39 < jadew> someone should invent a robot that puts everything back in its place
2019-07-22T17:51:59 < jadew> you could let it loose on your bench when working
2019-07-22T17:52:03 < jadew> or when you're done
2019-07-22T17:53:50 < jadew> Haohmaru, what's that?
2019-07-22T17:58:06 < jadew> what's displaying?
2019-07-22T17:58:31 < jadew> that doesn't look like music
2019-07-22T18:03:47 < sync> feed it some aphex twin
2019-07-22T18:04:04 < Cracki> jadew, those robots are a research field. assisted living for the elderly :P
2019-07-22T18:04:40 < jadew> Cracki, they could assist me right now
2019-07-22T18:06:16 < Cracki> if you have ~1k to spare, buy a used robotic arm
2019-07-22T18:06:32 < Cracki> I keep thinking about how to build a decent one myself but ehhhh
2019-07-22T18:06:54 < Cracki> all that maker shit uses shit ass servos, literal toys
2019-07-22T18:07:24 < jadew> well, the arm is one thing, training it to do something useful is another
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2019-07-22T18:09:40 < Cracki> true true
2019-07-22T18:10:06 < Cracki> that's why I see lots of those arms, but standing still because the research groups have no idea how to utilize them
2019-07-22T18:11:03 < jadew> this sounds almost like a great idea, but I'm afraid to think about it for too long
2019-07-22T18:11:33 < jadew> I could get excited about it and end up wasting years
2019-07-22T18:11:41 < Cracki> ;)
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2019-07-22T18:12:03 < Cracki> prolly cheaper and quicker to hire a mexican, or make kids
2019-07-22T18:13:27 < Cracki> where's catphish, I've been staring at those gauge stepper diagrams
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2019-07-22T18:27:38 < Cracki> I wouldn't be surprised if they only tie pin 2+3 together to save on half bridges
2019-07-22T18:33:52 < Cracki> huh, they must have those coils at 60 degrees, then the sequence makes sense... pos 2 is +A, pos 6 is +B, 1 is A+B
2019-07-22T18:35:36 < Cracki> 180 degrees in their diagram is what's normally considered 2 full steps (quadrant 1 to quadrant 3)
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2019-07-22T18:52:32 < jadew> since I brought up that robotic arm thing, I managed to put one cable back
2019-07-22T18:53:20 < Cracki> srsly make moar kids
2019-07-22T18:53:39 < Cracki> 5 bucks, either mow the lawn or tidy up the workshop :P
2019-07-22T18:54:24 < jadew> maybe I'll try that
2019-07-22T18:55:21 < Cracki> in no time they'll do the fine soldering for you and the tedious pcb layouting
2019-07-22T18:56:03 < Cracki> ♬ I'm melting... ♬
2019-07-22T18:56:31 < jadew> that would be cool
2019-07-22T18:57:11 < Cracki> last week we had a high school graduate here. she decided when she was 12 that she'd be a computer scientist like BOTH her parents
2019-07-22T18:57:34 < jadew> nice, and what is she now?
2019-07-22T18:57:48 < Cracki> deciding whether to be a freshman here or closer to home
2019-07-22T18:58:15 < jadew> I decided to be a computer scientist earlier than that
2019-07-22T18:58:22 < jadew> although it wasn't in those exact words
2019-07-22T18:58:42 < jadew> and my dream was stupid
2019-07-22T18:59:14 < jadew> it came true and turned out it was not the greatest idea ever
2019-07-22T18:59:20 < Cracki> heh
2019-07-22T18:59:37 < jadew> although, I wouldn't have called myself a scientist
2019-07-22T19:01:02 < jadew> code monkey - that's a better description for every programming job
2019-07-22T19:01:05 < Cracki> I'm not keen to call myself that either. "engineer" would sound better.
2019-07-22T19:01:22 < salcedo> you can't title yourself. only the corporate overlords can.
2019-07-22T19:01:24 < Cracki> senior code monkey, the one who holds the water hose
2019-07-22T19:01:43 < jadew> salcedo, I knew you'd get it :)
2019-07-22T19:02:13 < jadew> yeah, in the end all programming jobs are stupid
2019-07-22T19:02:54 < Cracki> programming is a craft, for vocationally trained people
2019-07-22T19:03:18 < jadew> it's the wrong craft to train into
2019-07-22T19:03:21 < Cracki> almost anyone with a uni diploma should tell others what and how to program
2019-07-22T19:03:52 < Cracki> or how do the elctrical things, or how to draft the mechanical stuff
2019-07-22T19:03:55 < jadew> maybe you can tell that to the young chick: you picked wrong.
2019-07-22T19:04:01 < Cracki> lol
2019-07-22T19:05:01 < Cracki> random programmer might have a clue about big-O but beyond that... maybe not
2019-07-22T19:05:21 < jadew> that's because you never analyze code like that
2019-07-22T19:05:39 < Cracki> nobody said anything about analyzing
2019-07-22T19:05:55 < Cracki> just knowing "this is shit, thatr's less shit"
2019-07-22T19:06:01 < Cracki> or "that'll blow up in your face"
2019-07-22T19:06:04 < jadew> and that is because regular programmers don't come up algorithms that have to be characterized
2019-07-22T19:06:16 < jadew> ah, I'm sure most know that
2019-07-22T19:06:49 < Cracki> some hard problems such as traveling salesman, are _expensive_ to find the optimum for, but there are approximative algorithms where you trade runtime for whatever fraction worse-than-opt solution
2019-07-22T19:07:09 < Cracki> right, regular programmers implement things, or pick the right library
2019-07-22T19:07:43 < jadew> exactly
2019-07-22T19:08:11 < jpa-> regular programmers put for { for { while { for { and wonder why their code is slow with big inputs
2019-07-22T19:08:14 < Cracki> doing "simple" gymnastics on graph structures is confusing for a sizable minority of our undergraduates
2019-07-22T19:08:41 < jadew> jpa-, wouldn't call those regular :)
2019-07-22T19:10:08 < Cracki> I'm not saying all programmer tradesmen are unable to think on that level. I'm sure there are a ton who would graduate uni well, or maybe have trouble with only a class or two
2019-07-22T19:10:36 < benishor> there's a diffrence between programming and computer science
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2019-07-22T19:10:43 < benishor> difference even
2019-07-22T19:10:44 < jadew> you know what's absurd? I ended up using more math that I learned in school, than programming
2019-07-22T19:10:45 < Cracki> and that's the difference
2019-07-22T19:10:51 < Cracki> ;)
2019-07-22T19:10:56 < Cracki> programming is like calligraphy
2019-07-22T19:10:56 < benishor> heh, noice
2019-07-22T19:11:06 < benishor> programming is about putting things together in a manageable way
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2019-07-22T19:11:22 < Cracki> that's software construction/architecture/... :P
2019-07-22T19:11:24 < benishor> computer science is about going all analytical, inventing algorithms
2019-07-22T19:11:29 < benishor> characterizing, optimizing
2019-07-22T19:11:29 < Cracki> yeh
2019-07-22T19:11:32 < jadew> well, the programming that was thought to me had to do with algorithms and stupid problems that never came up in real life
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2019-07-22T19:11:47 < benishor> but put a computer scientist to write a big app, he'll shit his pants
2019-07-22T19:12:04 < jadew> like the towers of Hanoi - I never had to sort anything like that, in my entire programming career
2019-07-22T19:12:12 < jadew> wtf was the point of that shit?
2019-07-22T19:12:15 < Cracki> a lot of our students suck at coding.
2019-07-22T19:12:28 < Cracki> they simply aren't made to do enough of it, and without any real feedback
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2019-07-22T19:12:39 < benishor> solving problems with recursion
2019-07-22T19:12:45 < benishor> that was the point
2019-07-22T19:13:04 < jadew> benishor, pfft... anyone can get recursion without that stupid crap
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2019-07-22T19:13:11 < Cracki> recursion (or some other stack/fifo structure) is what you use on trees
2019-07-22T19:13:15 < benishor> thing is the cake is a lie. there is no true recursion either
2019-07-22T19:13:16 < Cracki> and graphs :P
2019-07-22T19:13:26 < benishor> you
2019-07-22T19:13:33 < Cracki> hanoi is just a brain teaser
2019-07-22T19:13:33 < benishor> you're bound to the stack
2019-07-22T19:13:44 < benishor> graphs have many uses
2019-07-22T19:13:47 < jadew> I remember when I was given a recursion problem and I solved it
2019-07-22T19:13:51 < benishor> think of your beloved RTS
2019-07-22T19:13:51 < jadew> and didn't know what recursion was
2019-07-22T19:14:03 < jadew> that's how dumb the system is
2019-07-22T19:14:04 < benishor> and think how the build trees are implemented
2019-07-22T19:14:18 < jadew> for one, it caters to people who can't think
2019-07-22T19:14:29 < jadew> and on the other hand, it teaches stupid shit they won't use
2019-07-22T19:14:35 < Cracki> IQ tests are baaaad, m'kay
2019-07-22T19:14:43 < benishor> I like iq tests
2019-07-22T19:14:50 < Cracki> if I had to hire someone, I'd give all applicants an IQ test
2019-07-22T19:14:54 < benishor> they're fun for muscle flexing
2019-07-22T19:15:18 < benishor> they ought to determine the ability for pattern matching
2019-07-22T19:15:23 < Cracki> they do
2019-07-22T19:15:39 < Cracki> they measure working memory, pattern recognition. both are rather orthogonal
2019-07-22T19:15:42 < jadew> I hear there are only a couple of relevant IQ tests
2019-07-22T19:15:47 < jadew> the rest is pretty much garbage
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2019-07-22T19:15:55 < jadew> and they cost a lot to take
2019-07-22T19:16:02 < Cracki> depends on what you want to measure ;)
2019-07-22T19:16:12 < Cracki> they cost a lot because it's a scam
2019-07-22T19:16:20 < Cracki> just get the tests and administer it yourself
2019-07-22T19:16:26 < Cracki> the money is for "certificates"
2019-07-22T19:16:35 < jadew> but then you won't know if your score is real
2019-07-22T19:16:58 < jadew> you get an 150 IQ score - but did you do it right?
2019-07-22T19:17:03 < Cracki> they also take money because they collect results and adjust their scores to keep the distribution at mu=100, sigma=15
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2019-07-22T19:17:09 < jadew> did you compensate for things you aren't aware about?
2019-07-22T19:17:29 < Cracki> comparability is overrated
2019-07-22T19:17:41 < jadew> why else would you take it?
2019-07-22T19:17:59 < benishor> iow all those of us who suffer from impostor syndrome need to be told by 3rd party entities that we're smart
2019-07-22T19:18:04 < Cracki> to compare applicants because I administered the test to them
2019-07-22T19:18:19 < benishor> that's one good reason to take an IQ test
2019-07-22T19:19:04 < jadew> benishor, you could also be told that you're not suffering from that ;)
2019-07-22T19:19:19 < Cracki> that's gaslighting
2019-07-22T19:19:24 < benishor> jadew: that wouldn't really be of help :)
2019-07-22T19:19:26 < Cracki> "no no no you aren't am impostor!"
2019-07-22T19:19:33 < Cracki> "but I am!"
2019-07-22T19:19:35 < benishor> it's like your mom telling you "you're smartg"
2019-07-22T19:19:53 < Cracki> yeah do a test, it's fun
2019-07-22T19:19:58 < benishor> you can't tell whether she's being objective or not
2019-07-22T19:20:11 < Cracki> show up at Mensa, tell them you want to get tested
2019-07-22T19:20:16 < jadew> what I meant was "you're not suffering from the impostor syndrome, because you are actually an impostor. The feeling you have is grounded in reality."
2019-07-22T19:20:22 < Cracki> they'll use one of those that reaches beyond 2-3 sigma
2019-07-22T19:20:29 < Cracki> lol
2019-07-22T19:20:49 < jadew> that's the other thing an IQ test can tell you
2019-07-22T19:20:50 < Cracki> listen to your dad, he'll tell you when you suck
2019-07-22T19:20:51 < benishor> here's a pretty good one I ran into a while ago
2019-07-22T19:20:52 < benishor> http://www.iqtest.dk/
2019-07-22T19:20:58 < benishor> unfortunately it needs flash
2019-07-22T19:21:12 < Cracki> I think I saw the same one and it didn't need flash
2019-07-22T19:21:13 < benishor> of course, you can get mensa tested for a small amount
2019-07-22T19:21:14 < jadew> Cracki, I don't think my dad ever told me he's proud of me
2019-07-22T19:21:24 < jadew> so you're right there
2019-07-22T19:21:27 < Cracki> ah no it was this one https://www.mensa.lu/en/mensa/online-iq-test/online-iq-test.html
2019-07-22T19:21:39 < Cracki> did he at least hug you
2019-07-22T19:21:52 < jpa-> some of the biggest idiots i've met have been boasting about their mensa results
2019-07-22T19:21:54 < Cracki> not that that's common...
2019-07-22T19:22:03 < jadew> yeah, but no matter my accomplishment, I never heard the "I'm proud of you" thing
2019-07-22T19:22:24 < jadew> he told me I'm stupid a couple of times tho lol
2019-07-22T19:22:29 < Cracki> oh boy
2019-07-22T19:22:43 < Cracki> you'll have the last laugh
2019-07-22T19:23:24 < jadew> jpa-, that's because 20% is not that great
2019-07-22T19:24:12 < jadew> the top 20% are dumb as a rock in this brain economy, if I can call it that
2019-07-22T19:24:47 < jpa-> as if sorting people on just one axis was relevant to begin with
2019-07-22T19:24:52 < Cracki> top 20% is still only IQ >= 110
2019-07-22T19:24:54 < jadew> that too
2019-07-22T19:25:07 < Cracki> and IQ doesn't say anything about them being kind or assholes
2019-07-22T19:25:09 < jadew> Cracki, yes, which is pretty dumb, no?
2019-07-22T19:25:16 < antto> sync, https://i.imgur.com/aoUnkLC.png
2019-07-22T19:25:18 < Cracki> 110 is still above average
2019-07-22T19:25:23 < jadew> I mean, I'm not sure if it's really 110, but 110 is pretty dumb
2019-07-22T19:25:30 < Cracki> 100 is average
2019-07-22T19:25:34 < jadew> Cracki, there are lots of folks dragging the average down
2019-07-22T19:25:51 < Cracki> clinical definitions of dumb, idiot, ... are somewhere around 70-80
2019-07-22T19:26:00 < Cracki> just remove the outliers
2019-07-22T19:26:08 < jadew> there are entire countries in that range
2019-07-22T19:26:16 < Cracki> ikr
2019-07-22T19:26:23 < Cracki> can't just remove whole countries
2019-07-22T19:26:32 < Cracki> anyway, IQs tend to be normalized to western populations
2019-07-22T19:26:45 < jadew> oh, they are?
2019-07-22T19:26:50 < Cracki> if you had to take the billions of people in africa and china...
2019-07-22T19:26:58 < jadew> so 100 is actually john doe on the street?
2019-07-22T19:27:09 < Cracki> that's what I am led to believe
2019-07-22T19:27:10 < antto> a house track: https://i.imgur.com/cIFUqHU.png
2019-07-22T19:28:56 < con3> someone say africa/
2019-07-22T19:29:21 < Cracki> don't worry, SA is (still) considered western european
2019-07-22T19:29:35 < Cracki> looks like france anywya :>
2019-07-22T19:29:49 < Cracki> goddamn, the first fucking heart transplant!
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2019-07-22T19:32:42 < antto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMl2jVOKnko
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2019-07-22T19:39:43 < con3> wow the pwm on these stm32's are really nice
2019-07-22T19:40:09 < con3> Cracki: those were the glory days
2019-07-22T19:40:22 < con3> now our army is fighting the gangs in cape town
2019-07-22T19:41:58 < con3> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/19/south-african-army-townships-gang-violence
2019-07-22T19:44:04 < Cracki> fight the powa!
2019-07-22T19:44:39 < Cracki> israeli situation. everyone who can get sunburn gets a gun
2019-07-22T19:45:11 < Cracki> >will not address causes
2019-07-22T19:45:39 < Cracki> i.e. you don't get a heart transplant, you get some pills for the pain
2019-07-22T19:47:25 < bitmask> woot
2019-07-22T19:47:29 < bitmask> this impeller moves a lot of air
2019-07-22T19:50:21 < bitmask> ran it up to 80w
2019-07-22T19:57:32 < jadew> Cracki, that test doesn't show which answers I got wrong :/
2019-07-22T19:58:04 < jadew> or why...
2019-07-22T19:58:11 < bitmask> 150w
2019-07-22T19:58:13 < jadew> I think whoever made them is wrong
2019-07-22T19:58:15 < salcedo> con3: lol army fighting street gangs. they could never do that in chicago.
2019-07-22T19:58:17 < bitmask> I think this motor is good for 400w
2019-07-22T19:58:21 < salcedo> army would get its ass woooped.
2019-07-22T19:59:41 < jadew> salcedo, right, because wanna be rapper joe the drug dealer is an excellent strategist
2019-07-22T20:00:20 < jadew> the army never loses unintentionally against regular people
2019-07-22T20:00:49 < jadew> if they do lose, is because they don't want to slaughter them, so they give them a pass
2019-07-22T20:01:07 < salcedo> jadew: because wannabe rapper joe the drug dealer has a whole possee of wannabes with assault weapons, expert knowledge of the lay of the land, and years of combat experience ... vs people who may or may not have combat experience - only training - and no idea how to operate in that environment.
2019-07-22T20:02:27 < jadew> there are 1000 times more people in the army, that are more prepared than the guy in charge of that fight, who are ready to step in at a moment's notice to take command
2019-07-22T20:02:34 < jadew> you can't win against the army
2019-07-22T20:02:47 < jadew> even if they're inexperienced, the army can wipe them out in seconds
2019-07-22T20:03:03 < salcedo> we'll see!
2019-07-22T20:03:03 < Steffanx> When will it explode bitmask  
2019-07-22T20:03:04 < jadew> the only problem is that they don't want to kill them all
2019-07-22T20:03:23 < bitmask> when I turn it higher than this :P
2019-07-22T20:03:26 < bitmask> shush
2019-07-22T20:03:27 < jadew> so they ALLOW them to play their games
2019-07-22T20:03:34 < bitmask> it will not explode
2019-07-22T20:03:44 < bitmask> and I had a stroopwaffel mcflurry yesterday
2019-07-22T20:03:45 < salcedo> you have to realize that in places like chicago, the people on the streets aren't all a bunch of retarded thugs. some of them are or have been active military. some are veterans.
2019-07-22T20:04:01 < Steffanx> I spun something 3d printed very fast once. I got afraid of it and never turned it on again
2019-07-22T20:04:04 < jadew> Cracki, that test is annoying, it says I only got 28 questions right and I'm calling BS on that
2019-07-22T20:04:21 < bitmask> Steffanx yea I was in full riot gear (not really, just safety glasses, gloves, and a robe :P
2019-07-22T20:04:22 < Steffanx> It was an air raid siren.
2019-07-22T20:04:34 < Steffanx> The noise was almost painful as well 
2019-07-22T20:04:39 < jadew> all my answers were based on some logic (not random) so it must mean that the guy who made the test is either too stupid to make them so they have only just one answer, or the right answer is subjective
2019-07-22T20:04:57 < bitmask> noise wasnt as bad as I expected, I think it will be at 200w though
2019-07-22T20:05:02 < salcedo> the late-20's thugged out joe the drug dealer might have spent a few years in some outpost doing patrols in afghanistan. you never know.
2019-07-22T20:05:28 < bitmask> when this is running it will be facing into a bucket with layers of protection in front of it, so I'm not too worried
2019-07-22T20:05:32 < Steffanx> In my case it was meant to make the loud sound
2019-07-22T20:05:36 < bitmask> right
2019-07-22T20:05:50 < Steffanx> Very
2019-07-22T20:06:19 < jadew> salcedo, not sure how you're analyzing this, but you're talking about the army
2019-07-22T20:06:31 < jadew> they can storm each house in chicago if they want to, AT THE SAME TIME
2019-07-22T20:06:50 < jadew> and kill anyone with any amount of drugs on them within one hour
2019-07-22T20:07:06 < salcedo> we still have a few years before that happens
2019-07-22T20:07:15 < jadew> the army is not the local cops, it's the army
2019-07-22T20:07:30 < Cracki> jadew, you can poke the javascript that does the test
2019-07-22T20:07:36 < Steffanx> salcedo is from yankeeland?
2019-07-22T20:07:40 < bitmask> you think they will enact marshall law for street gangs?
2019-07-22T20:07:45 < Cracki> of submit repeatedly and see which answer improves the score
2019-07-22T20:07:56 < salcedo> it won't be called marshall law
2019-07-22T20:08:02 < salcedo> there will be some unicorn name for it.
2019-07-22T20:08:03 < Cracki> martial law
2019-07-22T20:08:04 < mawk> martial law
2019-07-22T20:08:05 < mawk> lol
2019-07-22T20:08:08 < mawk> marshall law
2019-07-22T20:08:08 < salcedo> no. marshall.
2019-07-22T20:08:14 < salcedo> marshmallow law
2019-07-22T20:08:17 < mawk> sounds like an american saying "martial"
2019-07-22T20:08:20 < mawk> marshhshshshal
2019-07-22T20:08:23 < Cracki> marshall plan, from the guy who was named marshall?
2019-07-22T20:08:33 < Cracki> it's martial law if the military can shoot you on sight
2019-07-22T20:08:36 < mawk> the infamous one
2019-07-22T20:08:45 < Cracki> inshallah
2019-07-22T20:08:58 < salcedo> it's martial law as soon as google can augment it out of the NPCs reality.
2019-07-22T20:09:16 < salcedo> only a few years out for the DNA cleanse.
2019-07-22T20:09:55 < Cracki> sounds like something from a wellness spa
2019-07-22T20:10:10 < salcedo> Operation Wellness Spa.
2019-07-22T20:10:14 < Cracki> maybe that's how it should be marketed. a wellness spa for this earth
2019-07-22T20:10:44 < Cracki> or elon gives a bunch of mountain lions their implants to uplift them
2019-07-22T20:10:56 < Cracki> they're cute and purry but also murderous
2019-07-22T20:11:56 < Mangy_Dog> awwww
2019-07-22T20:12:01 < Mangy_Dog> i would still pet
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2019-07-22T20:12:10 < Mangy_Dog> even if theres a 1/10 chance of loosing my hand
2019-07-22T20:12:30 < Cracki> getting smothered by soft murder mittens
2019-07-22T20:12:37 < Cracki> you'll lose your throat
2019-07-22T20:12:50 < salcedo> meanwhile, the NPCs all get neuralink to augment out the mountain kitteh murder drones. as they're being eaten alive, all they see, hear, feel, is that they're being sexored by a unicorn
2019-07-22T20:13:04 < Cracki> deservedly
2019-07-22T20:13:38 < jadew> can't wait for neuralink
2019-07-22T20:13:43 < Cracki> you know, if such an implant went haywire, it could drive you mad or simply induce a seizure
2019-07-22T20:13:47 < jadew> always wanted a remote operated human
2019-07-22T20:13:54 < Cracki> same
2019-07-22T20:14:00 < jadew> *operated
2019-07-22T20:14:02 < Cracki> they can tidy up work benches
2019-07-22T20:14:13 < Cracki> (almost typed tiddy up)
2019-07-22T20:14:15 < jadew> right!
2019-07-22T20:14:20 < jadew> I forgot I was doing that
2019-07-22T20:14:22 < jadew> damn
2019-07-22T20:14:28 < salcedo> Cracki: lol yep. too much student debt or not paying taxes? "woops. poor fella's neuralink went haywire."
2019-07-22T20:15:09 < jadew> salcedo, those are the ones they want to keep
2019-07-22T20:15:28 < jadew> too much debt = you're slave
2019-07-22T20:15:30 < salcedo> jadew: it depends.
2019-07-22T20:15:40 < Cracki> never forget, always keep in debt
2019-07-22T20:15:50 < salcedo> if you're in a lot of debt and working to never pay it off, sure.
2019-07-22T20:15:53 < Cracki> extort reparations from every new generation
2019-07-22T20:15:55 < Cracki> it never ends
2019-07-22T20:16:38 < jadew> or you can just have social programs with borrowed money
2019-07-22T20:16:43 < jadew> next generations will pay
2019-07-22T20:16:50 < salcedo> if you deviate out of the zero-financial-mobility zone in either direction, you shall be terminated.
2019-07-22T20:17:06 < Cracki> it's a literal pyramid scheme, only the pyramid is on your money
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2019-07-22T20:21:43 < jadew> must love websites that say they take your privacy seriously in the same phrase in which they ask you to give it away to them
2019-07-22T20:22:16 < jadew> "We take your privacy seriously. Please check the following boxes."
2019-07-22T20:24:23 < salcedo> "We value your privacy and never sell your data to third parties**. Click here for the 438 page policy we know you'll never read."
2019-07-22T20:24:45 < jadew> they don't go as far as saying they don't sell your data
2019-07-22T20:24:49 < jadew> they just value your privacy
2019-07-22T20:24:58 < jadew> because that's what they're selling to third parties
2019-07-22T20:27:03 < jadew> It should read "we value your privacy at about 0.10c."
2019-07-22T20:27:22 < jadew> depends on how much privacy you give them
2019-07-22T20:27:37 < jadew> google has the most privacy, so they have the most money
2019-07-22T20:28:05 < jadew> then you have facebook, which is in the same business of valuing privacy
2019-07-22T20:28:50 < jadew> if they could, I'm sure they'd give it back to you at a cost
2019-07-22T20:28:56 < Cracki> actually, privacy is quite expensive.
2019-07-22T20:29:01 < jadew> exactly
2019-07-22T20:29:08 < Cracki> if you wanted to keep your data, you'd have to pay them what advertisers pay for your data
2019-07-22T20:29:25 < jadew> "Buy your privacy back: <click here to compare the various tires>"
2019-07-22T20:29:27 < Cracki> or enact laws and have public executions
2019-07-22T20:31:40 < Cracki> robot zuckerberg doing the walk of shame, getting hit by rotten eggs and all
2019-07-22T20:31:56 < Cracki> with a neuralink implant, we could make him do beep boop sounds
2019-07-22T20:39:03 < con3> salcedo: the gangs killed one soldier thus far
2019-07-22T21:03:55 < Steffanx> It was nice knowing you con3
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2019-07-22T22:31:12 < zoobab> hi
2019-07-22T22:31:19 < zoobab> I just got 2 STBee mini v2 from Japan
2019-07-22T22:31:26 < zoobab> http://www.zoobab.com/stbee-mini-v2-stm32-devboard
2019-07-22T22:31:31 < zoobab> still don't know which options to pass to dfu-util
2019-07-22T22:37:41 < Cracki> link says "same as STM32F103CB"
2019-07-22T22:38:35 < Cracki> so it has a rom bootloader that does DFU, but not via usb
2019-07-22T22:39:23 < Cracki> you can talk to it via some extra stlink and through the SWD pins, or use an usb uart and reset it into rom bootloader mode (boot0/boot1 pins), OR maybe it has a custom bootloader in flash that arduino can talk to
2019-07-22T22:39:31 < Cracki> but I wouldn't bet on that
2019-07-22T22:39:56 < Cracki> get an stlink for maximum flexibility. they're cheap off aliexpress.
2019-07-22T22:40:22 < Cracki> zoobab, ^
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2019-07-22T22:47:36 < zoobab> i will try with an stlinkv2 then
2019-07-22T22:47:56 < zoobab> I thought it was have been easy to use this builtin DFU bootloader mode
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2019-07-22T22:54:05 < Cracki> it can be, if you have an usb uart lying around
2019-07-22T22:54:23 < Cracki> more capable STM32 have rom bootloaders that can do DFU also on USB
2019-07-22T22:54:59 < Cracki> the stm32duino stuff uses custom bootloaders in flash, but it can also use usb uarts and stlink
2019-07-22T22:55:27 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2019-07-22T22:57:28 < Cracki> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/b9/9b/16/3a/12/1e/40/0c/CD00167594.pdf/files/CD00167594.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00167594.pdf
2019-07-22T22:59:57 < Cracki> yes, it's a jungle of an app note
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2019-07-22T23:03:25 < Cracki> uh... your link says it DOES list as a usb device with DFU... that's odd, then it's probably not an F103
2019-07-22T23:04:44 < Cracki> zoobab, read the letters on the chip, or post a picture
2019-07-22T23:04:51 < Cracki> that linked page is from 2012 and doesn't talk about v2
2019-07-22T23:06:05 < Cracki> aha! it seems they put a custom DFU-capable bootloader on it... some other site talks about it
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2019-07-22T23:47:11 < kakimir> need for movie
2019-07-22T23:53:05 < Cracki> spaceballs?
2019-07-22T23:53:27 < Cracki> american history x?
2019-07-22T23:53:59 < Cracki> captain marvel? or some jailbait spideybutt maybe?
2019-07-22T23:55:41 < Steffanx> Men In Black international
2019-07-22T23:56:41 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip68-2-121-171.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-22T23:59:16 < Cracki> oh oh oh! BOND MOVIE with a non-brit black woman martian transvestite
--- Day changed Tue Jul 23 2019
2019-07-23T00:00:59 < Cracki> I might be lying about zir being from mars. ze might be from wakanda
2019-07-23T00:11:17 < salcedo> what if i don't want to see the new bond movie because the plot sucks?
2019-07-23T00:11:28 < salcedo> am i still a racist bigot homophobe?
2019-07-23T00:18:15 < jadew> I need a movie too
2019-07-23T00:18:49 < kakimir> salcedo: yes
2019-07-23T00:21:12 < Cracki> A Serbian Film (2010) maybe :P
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2019-07-23T00:33:40 < jadew> kakimir, Furia (romanian)
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2019-07-23T00:35:31 < jadew> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0297213
2019-07-23T00:35:34 -!- smvoss [~smvoss@207.191.223.194] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-23T00:35:36 < jadew> in case you want to mix things up
2019-07-23T00:36:12 < jadew> I don't remember it that well tho, but I some of the scenes stayed with me
2019-07-23T00:45:51 < gnom> hi all, how read and write one same pin, with LL library
2019-07-23T00:50:40 < gnom> fast switch
2019-07-23T00:50:57 < gnom> for soft i2c
2019-07-23T00:53:21 < gnom> LL_GPIO_SetPinMode(...LL_GPIO_MODE_INPUT); and other example
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2019-07-23T01:11:39 < karlp> con3: heh, I was getting a weird feeling early on over something that made me feel yuou were generating a sine with the dac just to feed an external sin->pwm ic. wasn't aroudn at the right time to be  like, "uruhh, can you not just generate the pwm directly?" glad to see youv'e got it now :)
2019-07-23T01:21:24 < karlp> Cracki: wat? Cracki | so it has a rom bootloader that does DFU, but not via usb
2019-07-23T01:21:50 < karlp> dfu _is_ _explicirly_ a usb protocol
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2019-07-23T01:35:58 < catphish> i've only just come across the new g0 chips, they seem great value
2019-07-23T01:36:22 < catphish> a massive upgrade on f0 for not much more money
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2019-07-23T01:42:17 < Cracki> wb catphish, I meditated over those weird gauge steppers
2019-07-23T01:42:39 < Cracki> the coils themselves are parallel, but someone in some forum opened one up and saw the poles come in at 60/120 degrees
2019-07-23T01:43:33 < Cracki> so in the diagram, the "coil vectors" are at position 2 and 6 (1 is up). then that sequence makes perfect sense, gives you fields at unit distances.
2019-07-23T01:44:02 < Cracki> not sure why they'd do it like that tho
2019-07-23T01:44:05 < sync> I really like how modern steppers are in part bldc and reluctance on the other
2019-07-23T01:44:15 < Cracki> how much are they bldc?
2019-07-23T01:44:34 < Cracki> yes, microstepping runs around on a unit circle...
2019-07-23T01:45:37 < Cracki> but even "dumb" bldc commutation checks for zero crossings, while lots of steppers only run open loop
2019-07-23T01:46:07 < sync> you only have two, states
2019-07-23T01:46:16 < sync> for the bldc part
2019-07-23T01:46:29 < sync> the reluctance part gives them more torque at speed iirc
2019-07-23T01:46:48 < Cracki> ic
2019-07-23T01:48:03 < Cracki> if you're really talking about steppers... their torque curve kinda sucks
2019-07-23T01:48:52 < catphish> Cracki: yeah i've been studying those steppers for the last 2 days
2019-07-23T01:49:39 < salcedo> sheeeeit
2019-07-23T01:49:39 < sync> meh if you drive them at high voltages they are actually ok
2019-07-23T01:49:45 < Cracki> :P
2019-07-23T01:50:18 < Cracki> my boss does everything with steppers
2019-07-23T01:50:31 < Cracki> at one end, the customer wants insanely accurate positioning
2019-07-23T01:50:35 < catphish> Cracki: seems they have 2 phases, at 0 and 120/60 (depending on polarity)
2019-07-23T01:50:41 < Cracki> otoe they want insane speeds
2019-07-23T01:50:41 < salcedo> i was going to use stm32l052 64kb flash in ufqfn32 but the stm32g071 has twice the flash in the same package
2019-07-23T01:51:17 < Cracki> aye catphish, like a normal stepper but with the vectors of the coils not-orthogonal, so the vectors add funny
2019-07-23T01:51:25 < catphish> i'm able to drive mine fairly smoothly now at 5v using my own square wave code
2019-07-23T01:51:38 < Cracki> which is why the sequence only has +A+B and -A-B, not +A-B... because that'd jump off the unit circle
2019-07-23T01:51:58 < salcedo> the g071 is almost $1 less than l052 on digikey too
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2019-07-23T01:52:27 < catphish> yeah no +A-B, and running it at normal 90 degree offset it goes buts
2019-07-23T01:52:30 < catphish> *nuts
2019-07-23T01:52:31 < Cracki> our customer would be served well by any motor and encoder
2019-07-23T01:52:39 < Cracki> exactly
2019-07-23T01:52:44 < sync> catphish: lel, stepper and accurate does not ad up
2019-07-23T01:52:45 < sync> +d
2019-07-23T01:52:55 < catphish> i'm trying to build an automotive gauge
2019-07-23T01:53:14 < Cracki> +A-B would be a position between their weird two-thirds-steps, but also give about? twice the torque for that step
2019-07-23T01:53:28 < Cracki> that should jolt noticeably
2019-07-23T01:53:34 < catphish> Cracki: my next task is to run it with sine waves
2019-07-23T01:53:42 < Cracki> stepper and accurate, sure, what else?
2019-07-23T01:53:45 < Cracki> ooh
2019-07-23T01:53:52 < catphish> looks like they *should* run better with sine waves at 120 degree phase offset
2019-07-23T01:54:09 < Cracki> do you tie 2+3 together or control independently?
2019-07-23T01:54:29 < sync> the thing is, running a stepper with sinusoidal commutation does not really offer any benefit apart from less noise
2019-07-23T01:54:35 < catphish> independent, i'm using a 2 x h-bridge driver chip
2019-07-23T01:54:47 < catphish> sync: noise is the only problem i have now
2019-07-23T01:54:53 < Cracki> you do current control, yes?
2019-07-23T01:54:58 < catphish> no
2019-07-23T01:54:59 < sync> if you do FOC with an encoder, that's better but the frequency you need to drive it at gets pretty fast pretty quick
2019-07-23T01:55:07 < catphish> voltage control only
2019-07-23T01:55:07 < Cracki> but you must do current control
2019-07-23T01:55:09 < Cracki> hm
2019-07-23T01:55:17 < catphish> Cracki: nah, 5V DC is fine
2019-07-23T01:55:19 < Cracki> for low step rates, ok
2019-07-23T01:55:58 < Cracki> sync, we've done a stepper with 5000 PPR optical encoder. the stepper itself is actually quite accurate.
2019-07-23T01:56:06 < salcedo> wow these little fuckers do hdmi?
2019-07-23T01:56:06 < Cracki> I have plots, let me show you them
2019-07-23T01:56:18 < catphish> i see no need for current control it'll run at its full rated voltage without burning anyway
2019-07-23T01:57:13 < catphish> i realise current control should be better, but it's a huge complication, and most people don't seem to bother for these tiny steppers
2019-07-23T01:57:24 < Cracki> https://imgur.com/a/E2f9Ddq
2019-07-23T01:57:31 < Cracki> this won't tell you much without some parameters
2019-07-23T01:57:58 < catphish> so i'm working from this: https://i.imgur.com/yWVUjyQ.png, which shows what appears to be 2 sine waves at 60 degrees offset
2019-07-23T01:57:59 < Cracki> 1 full step is 0.7 mm 
2019-07-23T01:58:13 < Cracki> so that error is ~1/7 fullsteps
2019-07-23T01:58:48 < sync> the problem is that the stepper is very soft in a microstep
2019-07-23T01:58:52 < Cracki> (45 mm diameter roller)
2019-07-23T01:59:04 < catphish> right now i'm just running it at 5v dc per the datasheet suggestion, but i think it'll work better with a sine wave
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2019-07-23T01:59:07 < Cracki> "soft"?
2019-07-23T01:59:15 < sync> 200µm TIR error? that is bad
2019-07-23T01:59:15 < Cracki> is this the "microstepping is bad" discussion?
2019-07-23T01:59:22 < Cracki> what's TIR
2019-07-23T01:59:28 < sync> total indicator reading
2019-07-23T01:59:33 < sync> basically, peak-peak
2019-07-23T01:59:53 < Cracki> bad relative to what
2019-07-23T02:00:03 < sync> to anything
2019-07-23T02:00:04 < catphish> the main problems i have now are 1) noise and 2) no idea how to work out the acceleration curve
2019-07-23T02:00:49 < Cracki> probably because the customer mounted the encoder themselves
2019-07-23T02:00:54 < catphish> noise isn't too bad now i'm using the correct dc step pattern, might be even better with pwm
2019-07-23T02:00:59 < Cracki> they aren't mech engineers
2019-07-23T02:01:06 < catphish> but acceleration is hard
2019-07-23T02:01:34 < sync> if you do constant accel it is pretty easy
2019-07-23T02:01:40 < Cracki> yeah sines at 60 degrees should do the right thing
2019-07-23T02:01:58 < Cracki> acceleration curve?
2019-07-23T02:01:58 < sync> Cracki: it's not "bad" but it doesn't really do anything good for you either
2019-07-23T02:02:28 < Cracki> define the speed curve, then turn integrate for position, then derive your sines from that
2019-07-23T02:02:33 < Cracki> -turn
2019-07-23T02:02:57 < catphish> constant acceleration isn't trivial when each step takes a different amount of time
2019-07-23T02:03:17 < Cracki> that's why you should sample at a fixed rate, and calculate amplitudes for that time
2019-07-23T02:03:34 < Cracki> it's a bit brute force but since you're going for continuous anyway...
2019-07-23T02:03:51 < Cracki> you give up "stepping"
2019-07-23T02:04:02 < catphish> stepping is essential
2019-07-23T02:04:06 < Cracki> nah
2019-07-23T02:04:09 < Cracki> FOC
2019-07-23T02:04:21 < catphish> yeah no
2019-07-23T02:04:27 < Cracki> microstepping converges towards smooth sines
2019-07-23T02:04:36 < sync> FOC is the way to go
2019-07-23T02:04:45 < sync> works so nice
2019-07-23T02:05:01 < catphish> FOC is way beyond anything i can sanely achieve for a simple gauge
2019-07-23T02:05:13 < Cracki> don't be modest
2019-07-23T02:05:33 < Cracki> can you do voltages between 0 and 5 volt?
2019-07-23T02:06:02 < catphish> i can do pwm, i intend to switch to sine wave, ie fine microstepping
2019-07-23T02:06:11 < Cracki> great, then do pwm
2019-07-23T02:06:29 < Cracki> and the duty cycle results from a bit of math
2019-07-23T02:06:39 < catphish> yeah that part is easy enough
2019-07-23T02:06:42 < salcedo> does libopencm3 support the g0 shiz?
2019-07-23T02:06:49 < catphish> i will switch to sine waves
2019-07-23T02:06:52 < salcedo> or do i get to be a beta tester?
2019-07-23T02:07:21 < sync> voltage control will be ok, but then you can only run the stepper at joke voltages
2019-07-23T02:08:17 < catphish> yeah, would probably be nice to current control it, but i doubt it's worth it
2019-07-23T02:08:27 < sync> it is
2019-07-23T02:08:37 < sync> run that boi at 80V
2019-07-23T02:08:57 < catphish> it'll run at 12v DC without burning up anyway
2019-07-23T02:09:42 < catphish> can also implement open loop v/hz control if necessary
2019-07-23T02:09:51 < catphish> just ramp up in the voltage when it's moving fast
2019-07-23T02:10:07 < sync> nah, current control is the only way to do it
2019-07-23T02:10:29  * catphish shrug, works at 5v :)
2019-07-23T02:10:47 < Cracki> those are for gauges, they don't need to move fast
2019-07-23T02:12:11 < catphish> they actually spin insanely fast, they're just geared lots
2019-07-23T02:24:56 < catphish> looks like i can calculate a linear acceleration curve :)
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2019-07-23T02:26:38 < aandrew> I have to get back into motor control. it's so easy now iwth the micros that alreayd offer complimentary PWM outputs and deadtime adjustments and so on
2019-07-23T02:29:48 < catphish> yep, stm32 will do 3 phase with each phase having complimentary outputs with deadtime
2019-07-23T02:29:59 < catphish> i made a 3 phase inverter a while back
2019-07-23T02:38:28 < aandrew> yep I used to design them
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2019-07-23T02:45:00 < bitmask> ugh, damn freak storm
2019-07-23T02:45:01 < bitmask> power out
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2019-07-23T03:08:23 < englishman> karlp: cracki likely has you on ignore
2019-07-23T03:09:30 < Laurenceb> finally
2019-07-23T03:09:44 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45824.1200
2019-07-23T03:09:54 < Laurenceb> they ran out of shit to bullshit about
2019-07-23T03:09:58  * bitmask is so bored without power
2019-07-23T03:15:05 < Laurenceb> kek https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42628.80
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2019-07-23T03:41:46 < catphish> grr, no stm32g in kicad
2019-07-23T03:42:09 < catphish> how am i supposed to make circuits now :'(
2019-07-23T03:47:46 < catphish> f0 will do for now :)
2019-07-23T03:52:52 < zyp> wat
2019-07-23T03:53:35 < zyp> just make your own symbol, can't take many minutes
2019-07-23T03:53:52 < mawk> clone the existing one and adjust the few things
2019-07-23T03:53:55 < mawk> should take seconds
2019-07-23T03:58:40 < Cracki> I would assume that kicad has standard footprints and standard 3d models you can use, yes?
2019-07-23T03:59:03 < mawk> probably yes
2019-07-23T03:59:17 < Cracki> this leads me to think that https://kicad.github.io/packages3d/
2019-07-23T03:59:41 < Cracki> BGA, QFN, QFP, ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-07-23T04:00:08 < catphish> it probably does, i just always relied on it having a full set of stm32s ready to go :)
2019-07-23T04:00:16 < Cracki> :)
2019-07-23T04:04:34 < catphish> sleep time now
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2019-07-23T04:12:31 < specing> aandrew: for motor driving or general?
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2019-07-23T06:33:47 < bitmask> finally
2019-07-23T06:34:04 < bitmask> power is back on 4 hours later
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2019-07-23T09:22:00 < con3> karlp: yeah this is a lot better, I can just send the lut values directly to the register to update the pwm duty and avoid any dac linearity/ speed issues
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2019-07-23T10:05:09 < Thorn> >This display has a controller built into it with RAM buffering, so that almost no work is done by the microcontroller.
2019-07-23T10:05:20 < Thorn> ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
2019-07-23T10:09:14 < Thorn> Haohmaru: there is a russian guy on youtube who replicates modern advanced fluxes (nordson efd etc.) at home using chemicals I've never heard about before
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2019-07-23T10:32:21 < Steffanx> Welcome back zyp. You were missed
2019-07-23T10:33:48 < jly> 10
2019-07-23T10:35:03 < Steffanx> 4
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2019-07-23T10:47:32 < jly> you got a .44 magnum?
2019-07-23T10:47:53 < Steffanx> Fuck off jly  
2019-07-23T10:50:05 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-23T10:50:05 < jly> It's an expensive weapon
2019-07-23T10:51:04 < jly> Talk to easy andy, he's a travelling salesman
2019-07-23T10:56:07 < jly> are you interested in an automatic?
2019-07-23T10:56:23 < Steffanx> I would go drive around in a yellow taxi. What about that?
2019-07-23T10:57:46 < jadew> I just realized I forgot to place the instructions for that stupid order number JLC puts on the PCBs...
2019-07-23T10:58:04 < jadew> they'll put again over the logo or in some other stupid place
2019-07-23T10:58:38 < jadew> the small order number they put on the silkscreen
2019-07-23T10:58:44 < jadew> yeah
2019-07-23T10:59:03 < jadew> I'll have to try them out
2019-07-23T10:59:14 < Steffanx> They never picked a weird spot here.
2019-07-23T10:59:24 < Steffanx> Usually just some empty region
2019-07-23T10:59:35 < Steffanx> Pick some*
2019-07-23T11:00:06 < Steffanx> Damnit it english. "Usually they just pick some empty region
2019-07-23T11:00:24 < Steffanx> Final try :P
2019-07-23T11:00:27 < jadew> Steffanx, I normally specify where to put it, but when I don't, everything seems to be fair game
2019-07-23T11:00:49 < jadew> I have a shield on these boards, they could pick any spot under there
2019-07-23T11:01:10 < jadew> I'm sure they won't tho
2019-07-23T11:01:38 < jadew> on a different board that was more than half covered with a shield, they placed the label over some traces
2019-07-23T11:01:49 < jadew> when it was lots of available space anywhere else
2019-07-23T11:02:16 < jadew> Haohmaru, isolation is important
2019-07-23T11:02:37 < jadew> in fact, so important, this thing doesn't work without it
2019-07-23T11:06:28 < Steffanx> Now I want my lawyer 
2019-07-23T11:11:28 < Steffanx> Oh no. There goes my positive aliexpress experience. Seems they cannot deliver the package because of missing shipping info. Only the shipper can fix that
2019-07-23T11:11:45 < Steffanx> No way mr china will understand or even try to do that
2019-07-23T11:46:48 < jly> explain it to me in anime
2019-07-23T11:50:19 < Thorn> has anyone used internal stm32 adc for a resistive touch screen controller? does it work well?
2019-07-23T11:50:47 < Cracki> that's what they do on some F4 disco with touch display
2019-07-23T11:51:00 < Cracki> at least the demo firmware works well
2019-07-23T11:52:25 < Cracki> ... i *think* they use the built in adcs for that, not something the display might come with (because those displays don't come with that, right?)
2019-07-23T11:53:43 < Cracki> https://www.st.com/resource/en/data_brief/32f429idiscovery.pdf
2019-07-23T11:55:17 < Cracki> hm, looks like they talk to it with i2c... sorry
2019-07-23T12:00:13 < Cracki> they use a STMPE811QTR, "Touchscreen Controller, 4 Wire Resistive 12 bit I²C, SPI Interface 16-QFN (3x3)"
2019-07-23T12:06:24 < qyx> Thorn: avr if it counts
2019-07-23T12:07:18 < qyx> if vdd=vdda, you may connect the touchscreen directly to 4 ADC/GPIO pins
2019-07-23T12:08:13 < qyx> configure X as gpio, set one to gnd, the other one to vdd, configure Y for adc input, read both
2019-07-23T12:08:53 < qyx> and do the same for X/Y and Y/X
2019-07-23T12:09:09 < Thorn> yeah I found this https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48670806/stm32-and-4-wire-resistive-touch-screen
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2019-07-23T12:11:28 < qyx> I was reading both inputs and averaging them
2019-07-23T12:11:39 < Thorn> in my last project I used a 48 pin stm32, used every pin on it, so for for this project I decided to take a larger package. still used every pin lol
2019-07-23T12:11:46 < qyx> they are leaving the second input open
2019-07-23T12:12:19 < Thorn> I only have 2 adc inputs (and 2 non-adc gpios)
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2019-07-23T12:41:55 < karlp> englishman: I can sitll WAT his comments for the benefit of others...
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2019-07-23T13:07:45 < englishman> true
2019-07-23T13:08:59 < Thorn> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Driver-High-Current_XPT2046_C19076.html this seems popular but it also seems like more trouble than it's worth
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2019-07-23T14:56:23 < dongs> if ooh
2019-07-23T14:56:26 < dongs> that thing huh
2019-07-23T14:56:44 < dongs> why its more trouble?
2019-07-23T14:56:49 < dongs> just a cheap ass chink resistive controller, no?
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2019-07-23T15:16:03 < Cracki> spi at least
2019-07-23T15:16:29 < Cracki> and it promises to decode "pressure"... wonder how they'll measure that...
2019-07-23T15:17:19 < Cracki> that datasheet looks usable!
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2019-07-23T15:27:03 < stmuck> I have a question regarding SPI clocks between disparate chips. If my F4 SPI runs natively at 42MHz (after prescalers), would I be able to cleanly communicate with an AVR running at 250KHz (after prescalers)? I'm not seeing a way to get near enough to 250KHz for clean comms.
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2019-07-23T15:28:58 < stmuck> If I 256 prescale giving me 328125KHz, My comms are not-so-reasonably close, in that I have to do a bunch of re-transmits to "maybe" get a good response.
2019-07-23T15:30:47 < stmuck> In other words, if I send something like 0xAC530000, it may take a bunch of attempts to get a response of 0x00AC5300 back from the AVR. However, when I'm verifying flashes where the 4th byte is returned, I have no way to determine it's actually accurate.
2019-07-23T15:31:53 < jadew> with SPI you have to transmit at the same clock speed or slightly slower as the sampling frequency of the receiver
2019-07-23T15:32:03 < jadew> you could get away with slightly faster, but not for long transmissions
2019-07-23T15:32:20 < canton7> One will be the SPI master, the other will be the slave. The slave will have a maximum speed that its SPI can be clocked at. So long as the master stays below that, you should be fine.
2019-07-23T15:32:25 < stmuck> I found from multiple verifies that responses are coming back differently. That means, the instruction 0x28aabb00 may come back 0xx28aa## where ## is different.
2019-07-23T15:32:53 < canton7> Is the F4 the master? Which AVR do you have?
2019-07-23T15:33:15 < jadew> what's the SPI clock speed?
2019-07-23T15:33:28 < jadew> you said 328 MHz, but that's wrong
2019-07-23T15:33:43 < stmuck> Crud, ya. I was afraid of that. That's why I chose the 328125KHz speed since the difference was less than the next prescaler that brought me down to 164038KHz. I found I had less errors at the higher speed.
2019-07-23T15:34:17 < stmuck> 328khz, not mhz.
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2019-07-23T15:34:36 < stmuck> The AVR runs at 1mhz natively. SPI is 1/4, so 250khz.
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2019-07-23T15:34:50 < canton7> "I found I had less errors at the higher speed." -- something's not right there! Your idea that the SPI clock speed needs to "match" the slave's internal clock speed is rubbish
2019-07-23T15:34:51 < stmuck> My F4 is the master. My avr is ATMEGA16L
2019-07-23T15:35:56 < stmuck> I didn't think it had to match exactly. I figured it'd need to be an equal divisor though. So if 250khz for the avr, then 125khz from my F4 would also do  the job.
2019-07-23T15:36:16 < jadew> looks like the atmega SPI can do 8 MHz
2019-07-23T15:36:37 < jadew> what frequency are you clocking the IC from?
2019-07-23T15:36:39 < stmuck> Yup. I know I can set that fuse.
2019-07-23T15:36:57 < jadew> stmuck, it would
2019-07-23T15:37:02 < stmuck> APB2 is at 42mhz, so I had a 256 prescaler.
2019-07-23T15:37:19 < stmuck> That gave me the 328khz.
2019-07-23T15:38:31 < stmuck> I tried scaling the apb2 by 4 instead of 2 (21... just noticing a little wrong math in my spreadsheet...
2019-07-23T15:39:39 < jadew> the datasheet for the AVR says the SPI SCK frequency should be CPU speed / 2, minimum
2019-07-23T15:40:37 < jadew> any chance you're using different modes?
2019-07-23T15:40:57 < canton7> CPU speed / 4 - the datasheet says that the high period (and low period) should be at least 2 CPU clock cycles
2019-07-23T15:42:23 < jadew> canton7, right
2019-07-23T15:43:24 < canton7> stmuck, I'm assuming you don't have a logic analyzer? It's well worth having one on hand for issues like this
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2019-07-23T15:45:07 < stmuck> Ya, the /4 that I mentioned. doc2466.pdf pg 29, 141. Yeah, I'm afraid I don't. I don't do this stuff enough to justify it. It just makes things harder for myself. I actually have the code working on my ST, but wanted to port it to some AVRs I got.
2019-07-23T15:45:55 < stmuck> BTW, this is all for simply flashing to the chip. I haven't even gotten a program to work on it yet.
2019-07-23T15:46:10 < canton7> stmuck, have you tried running the SPI super-slow? 
2019-07-23T15:48:29 < stmuck> Not yet, I was looking to try that too. But I think the main thing is getting a "least-difference" between the divisions. I have to redo my spreadsheet though because of that one error. Looking at it now.
2019-07-23T15:49:11 < canton7> "But I think the main thing is getting a "least-difference" between the divisions" -- again, no. That's not how SPI works.
2019-07-23T15:50:26 < canton7> You just need to run the SPI slow enough that it's slower than the AVR's CPU / 4
2019-07-23T15:51:31 < stmuck> Well, I can't the speeds to match, so I thought getting an equal divisor would help get the clocks to mesh and jadew even said "it would" to my response earlier. But since I can't get an equal divisor, I'm looking for one with that causes the least difference.
2019-07-23T15:51:38 < stmuck> ... to minimize errors.
2019-07-23T15:51:48 < canton7> Again, getting the clocks to "mesh" is not something that you need to do
2019-07-23T15:52:03 < canton7> I'm not sure how many other ways I can find to say this
2019-07-23T15:52:08 < jadew> stmuck, you only have to get to that limit or lower
2019-07-23T15:52:12 < jadew> CPU / 4
2019-07-23T15:52:22 < jadew> what's your AVR's clock frequency?
2019-07-23T15:52:27 < canton7> 1MHz, he said
2019-07-23T15:52:31 < stmuck> Ah. Hmm, thought I tested that and just got a ton of errors.
2019-07-23T15:52:39 < jadew> ah... make it higher
2019-07-23T15:52:41 < canton7> stmuck, then something else is wrong!
2019-07-23T15:52:50 < stmuck> 1mhz. so 250khz for spi.
2019-07-23T15:52:57 < canton7> or lower, yes
2019-07-23T15:53:53 < jadew> yeah, that's not enough for 328 kHz SPI clock
2019-07-23T15:54:05 < jadew> you either make that one smaller, or increase the speed of the AVR
2019-07-23T15:54:11 < canton7> How are you trying to change the AVR's SPI speed anyway?
2019-07-23T15:54:54 < stmuck> I haven't made any attempt to change the SPI speed since that involves messing with the fuse and I don't want to screw that up by sending err'd bits.
2019-07-23T15:55:20 < jadew> is there any reason you're clocking the AVR from 1 MHz?
2019-07-23T15:56:16 < stmuck> ?It's shipped with the internal oscillator at that speed... unless I'm missing something from your question.
2019-07-23T15:56:35 < jadew> I see
2019-07-23T15:56:40 < jadew> disable the /8 fuse
2019-07-23T15:56:57 < jadew> and it will probably start working
2019-07-23T15:58:11 < canton7> You'll either need to decrease the speed or the relevant APB bus (to a maximum of 125hz * 256 = 32MHz, or increase the AVR's SPI speed by increasing its clock speed
2019-07-23T15:58:16 < canton7> *speed of
2019-07-23T15:58:22 < stmuck> Which fuse (high/low pg261) and which bit?
2019-07-23T15:58:52 < jadew> stmuck, I don't know, it's normally called DIV8
2019-07-23T15:59:30 < stmuck> I did a "find" in the datasheet for that and got nothing.
2019-07-23T16:00:06 < stmuck> Basically, I have no intention of touching anything on the avr, so I'll be adjusting the ST like canton7 mentioned.
2019-07-23T16:01:04 < stmuck> I'll likely be back because when I did make changes, I got more errors, not less. In other words, responses back became 0xFF more and more often.
2019-07-23T16:01:21 < canton7> See page 29, CKSEL3..0 = 0100
2019-07-23T16:01:40 < canton7> stmuck, right, and then you need to start looking for other causes
2019-07-23T16:01:56 < canton7> stmuck, it sounds like you tried to do the right thing, hit other problems, and went back to trying to do the wrong thing
2019-07-23T16:03:54 < dongs> holy shit
2019-07-23T16:03:58 < dongs> set net color broken in altidumb
2019-07-23T16:04:01 < dongs> latest
2019-07-23T16:04:03 < dongs> fuck
2019-07-23T16:04:07 < stmuck> heh. yeah. I wouldn't be surprised. Ya, I know about that fuse setting on pg29 I also mentioned earlier. But like I said, I fear screwing things up so bad that bad comms would end up sending a 1 bit to the high fuse and disabling SPI altogether.
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2019-07-23T16:10:22 < stmuck> OK, canton7, so my F4 runs at 168mhz. apb2 scaled down by 8 sets it at 21mhz. scaling spi down by 256 gives me 82khz (128 would give me 164khz). That sounding like the direction I should try then? Do I need to change the GPIO_InitTypeDef speed also? I know playing with that in my tests also made things screw up.
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2019-07-23T16:15:00 < jadew> kicad doesn't have net colors
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2019-07-23T16:21:56 < canton7> stmuck, set that to Very High
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2019-07-23T16:25:25 < salcedo> install easyeda botnet
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2019-07-23T16:28:54 < stmuck> I'm afraid not canton7. All 4 bytes returned end up being 0xFF like in previous tests I've done regarding speeds. The only things I changed this time was the apb2, spi prescalers and the gpio speed.
2019-07-23T16:29:33 < dongs> stmuck wtdf are you even talking about
2019-07-23T16:29:38 < dongs> STM32 is master right?
2019-07-23T16:29:51 < dongs> you are aware you don't need to "match" SPI clock speeds on slave right?
2019-07-23T16:29:52 < stmuck> Yup.
2019-07-23T16:29:59 < dongs> infact how would you even
2019-07-23T16:30:01 < dongs> master clocks it
2019-07-23T16:30:27 < dongs> just set APB to whatever lwoest speed and prescaler SPI peripheral to /256 or whatever
2019-07-23T16:30:31 < dongs> that's my point
2019-07-23T16:30:38 < stmuck> I'm not setting any slave settings.
2019-07-23T16:30:48 < dongs> also are you sure AVR code actualyl works?
2019-07-23T16:30:55 < aandrew> well you can't have the APB clock too slow on the slave but that's gonna be a fine point
2019-07-23T16:31:11 < aandrew> I always say to get it working THEN get it good
2019-07-23T16:31:12 < dongs> avr doesnt ahve apb
2019-07-23T16:31:34 < dongs> the bus SPI peripherals are on
2019-07-23T16:31:36 < aandrew> dongs: same idea though -- you're not trying to clock at 50MHz to a little AVR are you?
2019-07-23T16:31:45 < stmuck> Already set it low. I had it originally set to apb2=div2, spi div256 and gpio speed high. That "worked", but not consistently and would have a bunch of errors that I would "retry" my way through.
2019-07-23T16:32:00 < dongs> 42MHz/256 = 164khz
2019-07-23T16:32:11 < dongs> if you gonna tell me AVR running at 1MHz isnt gonna be able to read that...
2019-07-23T16:32:17 < dongs> you don't evne NEED to cahnge APB speed at all
2019-07-23T16:32:18 < aandrew> stmuck: APB has no bearing on SPI master other than the base clock speed, but like dongs said set the SPI master clock to /256 to start to get a dog-ass slow clock
2019-07-23T16:32:20 < Steffanx> Haohmaru when will you use your first stm32?
2019-07-23T16:32:22 < stmuck> There is no  avr "code". It's strictly dealing with spi for flashing.
2019-07-23T16:32:32 < dongs> oh that hsit
2019-07-23T16:32:37 < dongs> the SPI ISP thing
2019-07-23T16:32:40 < stmuck> "flashing" and other spi commands on pg276
2019-07-23T16:32:42 < dongs> why the fuck are you reiventing teh wheel
2019-07-23T16:32:44 < stmuck> yup.
2019-07-23T16:32:49 < stmuck> yes I am.
2019-07-23T16:33:05 < dongs> http://amitesh-singh.github.io/stm32/2017/05/21/FASTUSBasp-programmer-avr.html
2019-07-23T16:33:13 < Steffanx> That doesn't answer the question Haohmaru  
2019-07-23T16:33:14 < dongs> some indian already did the work for ya
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2019-07-23T16:33:39 < Steffanx> To resolve that issue I'll send you a board
2019-07-23T16:34:01 < dongs> jeeesus
2019-07-23T16:34:08 < dongs> that guy invenetd sdome fucking C++ F103 lib
2019-07-23T16:34:41 < dongs> https://github.com/amitesh-singh/FASTUSBasp this is some digsutign shit
2019-07-23T16:38:30 < stmuck> I'll have to take another look at that project. I see I had it cloned back in March. Maybe I can find a clue somewhere in there. Yes, I still want to "reinvent" it as you say.
2019-07-23T16:42:39 < mawk> your guy says "Windows OS" instead of windows dongs
2019-07-23T16:42:45 < mawk> that says it all
2019-07-23T16:47:54 < mawk> no
2019-07-23T16:48:03 < mawk> it's even worse
2019-07-23T16:54:09 < aandrew> lol
2019-07-23T16:55:20 < canton7> stmuck, what does the AVR code look like?
2019-07-23T16:56:48 < stmuck> ?The code that I'm trying to flash? Again, this is all about flashing the avr via spi, not about communicating with running avr code.
2019-07-23T16:58:17 < canton7> stmuck, right, so what bytes are you expecting back over SPI?
2019-07-23T16:58:22 < stmuck> That's what I'm trying to make my f4 do. I can kind of comm with the avr, but there's errors that force me to make retry attempts.
2019-07-23T16:59:01 < stmuck> Well for example, 0xAC530000 should return 0xXXAC5300, but it's all 0xFFFFFFFF
2019-07-23T16:59:08 < stmuck> yup.
2019-07-23T16:59:31 < stmuck> That's the least of how I've been feeling all these weeks (yes weeks).
2019-07-23T16:59:37 < stmuck> (months?)
2019-07-23T16:59:42 < canton7> stmuck, are you *sure* you've got your maths right on the SPI speed?
2019-07-23T17:00:04 < stmuck> I'm never sure about anything anymore.
2019-07-23T17:00:43 < canton7> stmuck, are you sure you're treating the CS line correctly, as well?
2019-07-23T17:01:02 < stmuck> I can pull #'s from the datasheets like 168mhz for my f4-discovery, apb2 set up in main.c... yada yada.
2019-07-23T17:01:37 < stmuck> Only SCK,MISO,MOSI,VCC,GND.
2019-07-23T17:01:51 < canton7> try chucking your setup into stm32cubemx, see that it outputs the same code as you're writing?
2019-07-23T17:02:14 < stmuck> I've just been viewing various codes to see how it's been done.
2019-07-23T17:02:32 < canton7> wait, no SS? What's the SS pin on the AVR wired to?
2019-07-23T17:02:41 < canton7> s/SS/CS/
2019-07-23T17:02:44 < stmuck> Interesting. Never even considered using cube. Is it for windows only?
2019-07-23T17:03:09 < mawk> it's java
2019-07-23T17:03:13 < mawk> for every platform
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2019-07-23T17:04:27 < canton7> ah, righty
2019-07-23T17:04:28 < stmuck> Nope, pg276 of doc2466.pdf shows only the SCK,MOSI,MISO (and reset, but that's literally only for resetting).
2019-07-23T17:04:55 < stmuck> Yup, that was my fear. That's why I don't want to screw with fuses or anything while my comms are sketchy.
2019-07-23T17:04:57 < canton7> and you're definitely doing the right thing with reset before you try and run your code from the stm32? i.e. the AVR isn't in some weird-ass state from the last time you tried to talk to it?
2019-07-23T17:06:03 < stmuck> Yeah, I know it's working when I'm getting good responses back from the avr including the signature/id (vid,flash size,pid).
2019-07-23T17:06:10 < canton7> (at the very least, I'd expect you to toggle it high, low, high, hold it low for programming)
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2019-07-23T17:06:33 < canton7> (or whatever you need to do to it to make it program over spi)
2019-07-23T17:06:36 < stmuck> And again, they would only be good after a bunch of retry attempts I have it try automatically.
2019-07-23T17:06:45 < stmuck> Yup, I do.
2019-07-23T17:06:54 < canton7> well, the retrying is probably because you were clocking it way too fast
2019-07-23T17:08:16 < stmuck> But again, the retrying works at the speeds I've tested at, but if I go faster OR slower (even with the speeds you suggested), I get ALL 0xFF returned. I've also tested with various pullup/down/nopull combos.
2019-07-23T17:08:31 < canton7> that's why I think you might be screwing up the "slower" bit
2019-07-23T17:09:06 < stmuck> But the question is what am I screwing up when it works at faster speeds, but not slower.
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2019-07-23T17:09:18 < canton7> because if your "slower" speeds are actually far too fast..
2019-07-23T17:09:55 < canton7> because you've misread the manual, or you're doing things in the wrong order, or you're not doing the things you think you're doing, or...
2019-07-23T17:10:04 < canton7> (a logic probe would answer this question in seconds)
2019-07-23T17:10:56 < stmuck> crapcrapcrap. Ugh I hate this. It's like when I got an odroid and there's no way of knowing what's wrong during boot without a uart.
2019-07-23T17:11:34 < canton7> stmuck, can you post your stm32 code somewhere?
2019-07-23T17:13:45 < stmuck> I could, but it's truly a mess. Essentially taking ST examples for diff boards, changing things for my board, commenting out stuff like UART and replacing with SPI. If it's about order, I can give a short walkthrough probably.
2019-07-23T17:14:10 < canton7> I can probably find the bits I want
2019-07-23T17:14:29 < canton7> Also, if it's that messy, first thing to do is to tidy it up! There might well be something lurking in the mess which is screwing things up
2019-07-23T17:15:39 < canton7> first rule of debugging: keep removing code until you've isolated the bit which is misbehaving
2019-07-23T17:15:46 < stmuck> I mean it's "tidy" in that I can read it an know exactly where to go to for everything since I've been going through it over and over. I just wouldn't want you to pull out your hair and scream.
2019-07-23T17:15:59 < canton7> I promise I won't scream ><
2019-07-23T17:16:06 < stmuck> Let me tar it up and post it.
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2019-07-23T17:18:54 < aandrew> stmuck: it's often easier just to paste the relevant bits to something like pastebin and share the link
2019-07-23T17:18:58 < aandrew> don't tar up the enitre project
2019-07-23T17:20:47 < stmuck> That's what I thought too, but the question has become where the error could possibly be and I'm guessing canton7 "might" have an easier time looking at it all rather than the guess-work.
2019-07-23T17:22:15 < aandrew> stmuck: let me paste up my stm32 spi master code; I'm using this to successfully send a bitstream to a Lattice FPGA and then later to communicate with the HDL I sent to the FPGA
2019-07-23T17:23:02 < aandrew> it's HAL code
2019-07-23T17:23:20 < stmuck> I mean the thing is, I mentioned using examples from ST so I'm not sure what difference it would make. Thanks though.
2019-07-23T17:25:55 < aandrew> stmuck: https://pastebin.com/zmep3HKc
2019-07-23T17:26:43 < aandrew> I didn't include the fpga_ss() function but it's just using HAL_GPIO_WritePin() to clear/set the pin
2019-07-23T17:29:17 < stmuck> Here's mine https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkkOvekTOCrYn1Omzuw-Ufv-LWFA It too uses HAL. Basically start at main.c:MAIN_USB_Init, then onto usbd_cdc_interface.c where spi is also set up and finished up at stm32f4xx_hal_msp.c
2019-07-23T17:31:07 < stmuck> Yeah, I also played around with the polarity/phase as well.
2019-07-23T17:31:37 < aandrew> yeah the polarity/phase needs to be agreed upon or you can run into lots of "almost works" scenarios
2019-07-23T17:32:06 < canton7> it's quite probable that the wrong polarity/phase combined with a speed that was too quick could have given you garbage / "almost works" stuff
2019-07-23T17:32:24 < aandrew> yep
2019-07-23T17:32:49 < aandrew> that's why dongs was saying to /256 the APB clock, get it super slow so you can almost follow it without tools :-)
2019-07-23T17:33:56 < stmuck> I don't think so only because the only thing I noticed different when testing the various combos was whether or not 0x00 or 0xFF was returned.... you know, going to test more of just those two combos for my current "almost works"/retry setup.
2019-07-23T17:35:00 < canton7> stmuck, your SPI code is in spi.c.bak?
2019-07-23T17:35:32 < canton7> stmuck, the GPIO's only running at medium speed, if so
2019-07-23T17:35:44 < stmuck> Hmm, I must have missed that for the apb part. I guess I can try going extra super slow. I just thought things wouldn't get any better if going a little slower only made things worse.
2019-07-23T17:35:58 < stmuck> Nah, you can ignore those .bak files. those were other examples I was following.
2019-07-23T17:36:26 < canton7> stmuck, I don't see your SPI code then?
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2019-07-23T17:37:23 < stmuck> usbd_cdc_interface.c:USBD_CDC_SPI_Init and USBD_CDC_SPI_Reset and USBD_CDC_SPI_Programmer and USBD_CDC_SPI_Tx
2019-07-23T17:37:59 < stmuck> told you it was all ugo (ugly)
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2019-07-23T17:39:13 < stmuck> aandrew, I just noticed apb2 can only /16 at most.
2019-07-23T17:39:33 < canton7> stmuck, also APB2 is only /2 in your code?
2019-07-23T17:40:37 < stmuck> yup. I tried various ways, but the way I tarred it is the "works somewhat" case. When I made those gpio and spi prescaler changes you suggested, it went back to "not at all".
2019-07-23T17:40:41 < canton7> and your HCLK is 96MHz by the looks of it? So your APB2 peripheral bus is running at 48MHz?
2019-07-23T17:41:14 < canton7> stmuck, I need you to realise that sometimes moving forward means solving multiple problems. Sometimes you solve one problem and run headlong into a second
2019-07-23T17:41:22 < canton7> That doesn't mean you failed to solve the first problem
2019-07-23T17:41:23 < stmuck> "HCLK(Hz)                       = 168000000". I didn't notice.
2019-07-23T17:42:10 < canton7> oh! HSE is 80MHz. I missed that. I assumed it was 16MHz. 
2019-07-23T17:42:29 < canton7> oops, 8MHz
2019-07-23T17:43:12 < canton7> Right, so your HCLK is 168MHz, and your APB2 is 84MHz. 
2019-07-23T17:44:05 < stmuck> phew, ok. good... or not if only that could have been the problem then it would've been great.
2019-07-23T17:44:21 < canton7> so a 256 prescaler on SPI is still 328kHz, which is way about 128kHz still
2019-07-23T17:44:34 < canton7> *way above
2019-07-23T17:45:47 < canton7> back to what I was trying to explain... Just because you solve the "SPI too fast" problem and start getting 0xFF -- that's not necessarily a bad thing! It doesn't mean that you failed to solve the "SPI too fast" problem. It probably means you've *solved* the "SPI too fast" problem, and you're now hitting another problem
2019-07-23T17:46:16 < canton7> We *know* that running SPI too fast will break things. Make damn sure it's running slow enough, then start trying to solve the "always getting 0xFF" problem
2019-07-23T17:46:22 < stmuck> Yup, but like I said, that and the 164khz I tried as well, but the 328khz had fewers error statistically when I tested it, but going higher/lower than those and it just got worse.
2019-07-23T17:46:35 < canton7> run it at 1kHz if you can
2019-07-23T17:46:56 < canton7> "better statistically" is *not* a good measure
2019-07-23T17:47:18 < stmuck> I see the lowest I can get it is 41016hz
2019-07-23T17:47:25 < canton7> you should not be getting *any* noise
2019-07-23T17:47:40 < stmuck> where apb2 /16 and spi /256
2019-07-23T17:47:53 < stmuck> I'll give it a go now.
2019-07-23T17:48:15 < canton7> stmuck, you can fiddle the AHB prescaler to decrease HCLK
2019-07-23T17:48:23 < canton7> and you can fiddle the PLL to decrease SYSCLK
2019-07-23T17:49:30 < stmuck> OK, I'll have to see how those all relate (excuse my ignorance for what's likely obvious to most of you folks). I'm sure I've seen it before, but just have to refresh myself.
2019-07-23T17:49:51 < aandrew> the other thing you can try if you're always getting 0xff is to simply disconnect MISO and ground it; you should always be getting 0x00 then and it's a very quick check to make sure you've got your GPIO configured right
2019-07-23T17:50:08 < canton7> I'm reading them off the "Clock Configuration" diagram in STM32CubeMX :P
2019-07-23T17:50:21 < canton7> also wire MOSI to MISO
2019-07-23T17:50:49 < canton7> (Fig 16 in RM0090 also)
2019-07-23T17:51:18 < canton7> (although the diagram in STM32CubeMX is clearer IMO)
2019-07-23T17:52:18 < stmuck> ....I have to go. I just rm -rf'd my subdir thinking I was in my tmp dir.
2019-07-23T17:53:04 < canton7> luckily you just zipped it all up to send to us!
2019-07-23T17:53:11 < canton7> (also, source control)
2019-07-23T17:54:11 < stmuck> That was only my spi code. not my ili9225 and dht22 code and other stuff. I'm literally freaking out like you won't believe. I think I'm going to boot into livecd and see if I can btrfs restore files.
2019-07-23T17:55:24 < Thorn> these transformers are freaking tiny, how am I supposed to wind them
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2019-07-23T18:07:07 < Thorn> does yellow transformer tape come in any other colors?
2019-07-23T18:19:48 < Thorn> I ordered 100 6mm ferrite rings, received 182
2019-07-23T18:24:19 < Thorn> also 22 bobbins and 45 core halves for a lot of 20 sets. these must have been counted by hand
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2019-07-23T20:01:58 < stmucker> Just hopping on for a brief moment to mention I managed to recover that dir (I think, without looking closely at it). btrfs restore didn't find anything at first and I dreaded I might have to use photorec, but using different tree roots from btrfs-find-root led me to my folder some older root.
2019-07-23T20:03:37 < stmucker> In any case, I'm exhausted and I shouldn't have even made that mistake, so it's time for me to crash out. canton7, I think the last thing mentioned before I screwed up was I should take another stab at the polarity/phase and drop hse/pll and whatnot even lower to get spi very slow. I'll do just that. thanks much.
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2019-07-23T20:07:24 < jadew> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NanoVNA-Vector-Network-analyzer-HF-VHF-UHF-Antenna-Analyzer-Standing-Wave-/383065216805
2019-07-23T20:16:49 < jadew> wanna see something stupid?
2019-07-23T20:16:57 < jadew> that one is $32 with buy it now
2019-07-23T20:17:07 < salcedo> aren't those things like $800?
2019-07-23T20:17:09 < jadew> this is an auction: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Quality-NanoVNA-Vector-Network-LCD-Analyzer-50KHz-900MHz-HF-VHF-UHF-Antenna-/283554574803
2019-07-23T20:17:41 < jadew> salcedo, not the ones made out of chinesium
2019-07-23T20:17:43 < salcedo> if only the g0 had usb :(
2019-07-23T20:18:04 < salcedo> now the l0 has TSC, which is cool. i played with it on my l4 last night.
2019-07-23T20:18:30 < salcedo> but when i BOMd out the passives to make TSC work on l0, it's actually cheaper to use a 5-channel i2c atmel touch sensor
2019-07-23T20:19:56 < salcedo> also there's very little tsc coded into libopencm3 yet
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2019-07-23T21:13:53 < salcedo> ok n/m
2019-07-23T21:14:22 < salcedo> the calculations were incorrect. l0 with TSC it is.
2019-07-23T21:14:51 < mawk> perfect occasion to send a pull request to libopencm3
2019-07-23T21:14:54 < mawk> add tsc support
2019-07-23T21:14:57 < salcedo> my thoughts exactly!
2019-07-23T21:15:02 < mawk> we will remember you as a hero
2019-07-23T21:15:25 < salcedo> i used HAL last night and also skimmed through the tsc part of the ref manual. it shouldn't be too hard.
2019-07-23T21:15:42 < salcedo> my guess is the reason it hasn't been added yet is lack of use cases or demand
2019-07-23T21:23:40 < Cracki> 37 celsius and no AC. wat do?
2019-07-23T21:24:03 < BrainDamage> humidity?
2019-07-23T21:24:28 < Cracki> less than tropical, I'm glad to say
2019-07-23T21:24:50 < BrainDamage> if you have low humidity you can make an evaporative cooler
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2019-07-23T21:25:01 < Cracki> I am wondering if a few empty beer crates and a tarp would work as a shallow pool to at least keep a dozen feet wet
2019-07-23T21:25:26 < BrainDamage> if you have high humidity, getting a calcium chloride salt based dehumidifer will make things more comfortable already
2019-07-23T21:25:44 < BrainDamage> it's like 3 bucks for a kg of the stuff
2019-07-23T21:25:49 < Cracki> mostly wondering how many holes I have to punch and how much cord I need to keep its rim up
2019-07-23T21:25:56 < Cracki> hmm
2019-07-23T21:26:22 < Cracki> not that humid, sadly
2019-07-23T21:26:26 < Cracki> (luckily)
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2019-07-23T23:02:00 < markus-k> Are there fake STM32 F1s out there or something?
2019-07-23T23:02:33 < markus-k> I just got another Blue Pill and openocd complains: Warn : UNEXPECTED idcode: 0x2ba01477 Error: expected 1 of 1: 0x1ba01477
2019-07-23T23:05:31 < Steffanx> Are you sure you picked the right target in openocd?
2019-07-23T23:05:46 < Steffanx> oh nevermind.
2019-07-23T23:05:51 < markus-k> The same command works with another BluePill
2019-07-23T23:06:17 < Steffanx> but yes there are some "clones".
2019-07-23T23:06:39 < Steffanx> https://github.com/FabienTregan/blink_bluepill_rust has the same error as you
2019-07-23T23:06:59 < markus-k> Yep there are a few others, but noone explains why it's so
2019-07-23T23:07:05 < Steffanx> Does it even say stm32f103.. on the ic?
2019-07-23T23:07:11 < markus-k> They just change the idcode in the cfg file
2019-07-23T23:07:21 < markus-k> yep, even an ST logo
2019-07-23T23:07:53 < Steffanx> "it comes with an advertised-as-perfect-replacement cs32f103c8t6 by CKS" sounds like enough "reason" to me.
2019-07-23T23:08:33 < Steffanx> and the continues with some more explanation
2019-07-23T23:08:44 < Steffanx> *then
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2019-07-23T23:11:20 < markus-k> Ah probably stopped reading too early. Seems like they even copy the ST logo then
2019-07-23T23:12:45 < Steffanx> :)
2019-07-23T23:13:47 < markus-k> Now that sucks
2019-07-23T23:14:02 < markus-k> I don't want different configs for the same board :D
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2019-07-23T23:15:12 < markus-k> The other blue pill I have comes from the same ebay listing, and it's one of the better ones that even implemented the USB correctly
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2019-07-23T23:35:57 < Steffanx> Hmm, where is kakimir.
2019-07-23T23:37:54 < rajkosto> the cs32 shouldnt copy the ST logo
2019-07-23T23:38:01 < rajkosto> check that your actual chip has the ST logo
2019-07-23T23:38:11 < rajkosto> the listing might have the ST logo cuz they just use generic bluepill pics
2019-07-23T23:38:39 < Steffanx> shouldnt :P
2019-07-23T23:39:07 < markus-k> Nope, it's certainly a ST logo
2019-07-23T23:39:15 < rajkosto> the cs32 overclocks worse and also comes with 64K more often than actual f103
2019-07-23T23:39:57 < Steffanx> werent there 103s with more than the advertised flash either in the past?
2019-07-23T23:39:57 < markus-k> The chip has a different shade, kinda glossy. The other f103s I have are matte
2019-07-23T23:40:27 < markus-k> I read they are often 128k instead of 64k
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2019-07-23T23:40:44 < rajkosto> actual f103s are almost all 128kl
2019-07-23T23:40:50 < rajkosto> clones are more often 64k
2019-07-23T23:41:22 < rajkosto> the c8 should be 64k all the time but it almost never is on actual f103
2019-07-23T23:43:42 < jadew> I have some components I got from china that I'm not sure if they're original or fake
2019-07-23T23:44:15 < jadew> the properties are the same and they seem to be able to take the same level of abuse
2019-07-23T23:44:22 < jadew> but the die is different
2019-07-23T23:44:49 < jadew> the datasheet mentions a process change, so maybe it's because of that
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--- Day changed Wed Jul 24 2019
2019-07-24T00:12:56 < Cracki> there are original f103 with 64 and 128k, because those flash sizes are different part numbers
2019-07-24T00:13:14 < Cracki> suffix C8 vs CB, I think
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2019-07-24T01:00:58 < karlp> canton7: no need for "very high" gpio drive strength when you'r edoing <250khz spi
2019-07-24T01:18:02 < karlp> 2ba99477 vs 1ba00477 is the revision and patch level fo the m3 core.
2019-07-24T01:18:43 < aandrew> evening chatters
2019-07-24T01:18:54 < aandrew> did stmucker get his spi working?
2019-07-24T01:19:31 < karlp> https://developer.arm.com/docs/103490233/latest/the-jtag-idcode-for-a-cortex-processor only has the current values, but for m3, it was 1,2,3,4
2019-07-24T01:19:42 < karlp> nah, deleted his source tree by mistake
2019-07-24T01:19:54 < karlp> managed to recover it with some btrfs bullshit, decided it was time to slep instead
2019-07-24T01:20:29 < karlp> (so yeah, if you want to just treat your cs32 not entirely clone as a clone, just change the expected id in the target file)
2019-07-24T01:22:46 < zyp> heh
2019-07-24T01:24:18 < karlp> it's like revision|ba|00 or 01 for swd/jtag|477 for arm. or something like that
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2019-07-24T01:28:01 < PaulFertser> karlp: I think changing it can be done by prepending -c "set CPUTAPID 0x2ba01477" before -f target/stm32f1x.cfg
2019-07-24T01:28:08 < PaulFertser> Rather than changing the config itself.
2019-07-24T01:30:31 < salcedo> but even if you change CPUTAPID, might still need to change openocd source code for flash
2019-07-24T01:30:45 < PaulFertser> salcedo: are you sure that's needed for that clone?
2019-07-24T01:31:39 < salcedo> no. but i had a similar situation with my l496. openocd could recognize it by setting CPUTAPID, but not the flash.
2019-07-24T01:32:31 < salcedo> the solution was getting latest openocd from git because it had a case in some switch statement for that id
2019-07-24T01:32:41 < salcedo> though, the revision shouldn't be counted.
2019-07-24T01:32:45 < salcedo> only the 12 lsbs
2019-07-24T01:32:57 < salcedo> so if CPUTAPID works, you should be good
2019-07-24T01:33:44 < PaulFertser> salcedo: yeah
2019-07-24T01:34:12 < salcedo> blue pill is not based
2019-07-24T01:34:15 < karlp> salcedo: that's a different part altogether though, not one that advertises compatibility
2019-07-24T01:34:20 < salcedo> i'm making a black pill :)
2019-07-24T01:34:58 < karlp> this isn't revision of the stm32 part, this is revision of the cortex-m core that's oin the device,
2019-07-24T01:35:01 < salcedo> karlp: regardless of whether it's a clone or not, the situation was similar because the 496 was "newer" i guess?
2019-07-24T01:35:02 < karlp> that doesn't change,
2019-07-24T01:35:15 < karlp> so yes, it should definitely be checked if you want to be checking what you're connecting to
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2019-07-24T01:45:55 < stmucker> I just woke up. I couldn't sleep long enough and should have taken a look at what I "recovered" before keeping my system alive... I found one of my dirs was empty and the AVR SPI dir code files are filled with garbage. I'll try some other recovery methods, but I screwed myself royally.
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2019-07-24T02:12:31 < salcedo> heh damn
2019-07-24T02:12:41 < salcedo> btrfs :(
2019-07-24T02:20:25 < mawk> I received my expelling letter
2019-07-24T02:20:31 < mawk> I have until 18th september
2019-07-24T02:20:43 < mawk> I have to pay 500€ in lawyer fees and 1600€ in bailiff fees
2019-07-24T02:22:12 < mawk> I will only pay the lawyer fees and flee to the netherlands so they won't find me
2019-07-24T02:23:08 < aandrew> mawk: what'd you do to get booted?
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2019-07-24T02:24:07 < kakimir> kakimir has joined
2019-07-24T02:24:29 < mawk> by just existing aandrew 
2019-07-24T02:24:48 < mawk> also not being poor enough to qualify for living where I live
2019-07-24T02:25:00 < mawk> well I am poor enough but I didn't go through the usual circuit so they don't like it
2019-07-24T02:25:17 < aandrew> apparently rich enough to pay 2100 to be told you're poor
2019-07-24T02:25:35 < mawk> lol
2019-07-24T02:25:47 < kakimir> moped is working
2019-07-24T02:25:54 < kakimir> did wheelies and shit
2019-07-24T02:25:56 < mawk> if I don't pay the justice fees justice will be even more mad and I'll have even more to pay
2019-07-24T02:26:02 < mawk> so even if you're very poor you should pay
2019-07-24T02:26:02 < Cracki> ah, "eviction", not school related
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2019-07-24T02:26:30 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-24T02:26:32 < BrainDamage> makes sense, better to piss off a person than piss off a state
2019-07-24T02:26:48 < BrainDamage> one has way more methods to go after you
2019-07-24T02:27:53 < mawk> the justice sentenced me to pay 500€ of the other party's lawyer fees, and pay "any bailiff fees"
2019-07-24T02:27:53 < kakimir> poor certificate - only for 2100
2019-07-24T02:28:06 < mawk> since they don't mention amount for the bailiff fees they try to be sneaky and make people pay the maximum
2019-07-24T02:28:16 < mawk> justice-illiterate people will eventually pay
2019-07-24T02:28:30 < mawk> but not me, I will go to their bailiff directly and ask for the list of all produced acts to pay only what is necessary
2019-07-24T02:28:40 < mawk> a bailiff act is like 60€, no way I have 1600€ of bailiff to pay
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2019-07-24T02:40:05 < jadew> mawk, sucks
2019-07-24T02:40:18 < jadew> did you tell them you're poor?
2019-07-24T02:40:25 < mawk> yeah during the trial
2019-07-24T02:40:31 < mawk> "argument refused" they say
2019-07-24T02:40:46 < mawk> the judgement wasn't even public because "the lawyers were busy"
2019-07-24T02:40:48 < mawk> lol
2019-07-24T02:40:53 < mawk> so I couldn't even speak to defend myself
2019-07-24T02:41:02 < jadew> brilliant
2019-07-24T02:41:35 < Cracki> sounds like that country is broken
2019-07-24T02:41:56 < mawk> but the judge refused 500€ of damages and interests from the other party
2019-07-24T02:41:59 < mawk> it's always that
2019-07-24T02:44:28 < salcedo> damages? what damages? that you damaged the court by being summoned there?
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2019-07-24T02:44:49 < salcedo> that's like people who purposefully walk out in front of a bus, except they don't die on impact.
2019-07-24T02:45:58 < mawk> that's the legal term salcedo , it's maybe "compensation" in american legalese ?
2019-07-24T02:46:09 < mawk> anyway the judge refused the compensation so it's cool, 500€ less to pay
2019-07-24T02:46:27 < salcedo> in america it's lawyer fees, court fees, whatever.
2019-07-24T02:46:30 < jadew> isn't the judge already being paid by the state?
2019-07-24T02:46:30 < aandrew> so your landlord took you to court to evict you for non-payment of rent?
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2019-07-24T02:47:01 < mawk> the fee isn't for the judge, it's for the other party jadew 
2019-07-24T02:47:06 < mawk> to repair the damage I may have done to them
2019-07-24T02:47:09 < jadew> I see
2019-07-24T02:47:09 < salcedo> oh. that's damage. yeah.
2019-07-24T02:47:18 < mawk> no I pay my rent aandrew , they took it to court only because I don't qualify to live here
2019-07-24T02:47:21 < salcedo> you pay the back rent as damage, essentially.
2019-07-24T02:47:29 < mawk> but I pay my rent, I even improved the flat by making free work in it
2019-07-24T02:47:45 < mawk> put new floor, repaired holes in the walls, new paint, etc
2019-07-24T02:47:45 < aandrew> jadew: it sounds like the other party said "mawk stiffed us $1234, we want $1234 and an additional $500 because he hurt our feelings" and the judge said "fuck your feelings, judgment is in the amount of $1234 plus court fees"
2019-07-24T02:47:47 < mawk> they don't care
2019-07-24T02:48:01 < mawk> no aandrew I pay my rent the 1st of every month 
2019-07-24T02:48:05 < salcedo> why don't you qualify to work there? is it reserved for low income people and you were making above that?
2019-07-24T02:48:06 < mawk> there is no damage for them
2019-07-24T02:48:10 < salcedo> err live
2019-07-24T02:48:24 < mawk> only maybe if they evict me they can rise up the rent for the next occupant, but they can't say that in court
2019-07-24T02:48:38 < aandrew> mawk: oh I seem to remeber something about this now... you were in special subsidized housing or something and someone made a claim that you didn't qualify to live there. the subsequent investigation found that to be true, so they kicked you out
2019-07-24T02:48:49 < mawk> it's reserved for low income people and I didn't went through the usual circuit to qualify salcedo , even if I qualified
2019-07-24T02:49:07 < salcedo> makes sense
2019-07-24T02:49:07 < jadew> why would you want to qualify anyway
2019-07-24T02:49:08 < mawk> I inherited the keys of that appartment without living with the dead grandma before her death so I can't inherit the keys legally
2019-07-24T02:49:16 < jadew> it's a sign you need to make more money
2019-07-24T02:49:20 < jadew> and move somewhere nice
2019-07-24T02:49:20 < mawk> lol
2019-07-24T02:49:43 < jadew> you're here, so you're obviously capable of making loads of money
2019-07-24T02:49:44 < mawk> well it's a 300€/month appartment in an area where you can only find like 1500€/month for the same area
2019-07-24T02:49:49 < mawk> so it's nice to stay here
2019-07-24T02:49:55 < mawk> the rent is blocked since 1990 or something
2019-07-24T02:50:02 < jadew> neat
2019-07-24T02:50:03 < mawk> so they absolutely want to evict us to raise the rent
2019-07-24T02:50:11 < salcedo> but if you don't "qualify" as a poor person, you're cheating "poor" people out of a place to live.
2019-07-24T02:50:20 < mawk> yeah salcedo in theory
2019-07-24T02:50:29 < salcedo> and you're cheating the land lord too because they get kickbacks for that shit most likely.
2019-07-24T02:50:41 < mawk> in the same building across the window there is a family of africans that don't pay rent and have no electricity
2019-07-24T02:50:45 < salcedo> so you not being on the gubmentz dime with whatever welfare assistance raises a red flag
2019-07-24T02:51:03 < mawk> and no windows either, just cardboard
2019-07-24T02:51:35 < mawk> the landlord in theory gets the same amount of money if I cheat or not
2019-07-24T02:51:44 < mawk> it's just that they want to raise it, but it's not something they can say in front of the judge
2019-07-24T02:51:52 < mawk> so they play it like they stand by the law for no obvious reason
2019-07-24T02:51:58 < salcedo> i.e. if the landlord is offering up housing for low income people and getting subsidy from the government to do it, the government expects that money to be used for that purpose only. if you're living there and you're not taking their handouts, it makes the landlord look like he's not being truthful - and instead letting anyone live there WHILE taking gov money or whatever.
2019-07-24T02:52:16 < salcedo> i had a rental property that i set up like that
2019-07-24T02:52:29 < mawk> here you can only do that in big buildings I think, subsidized appartment
2019-07-24T02:52:33 < mawk> it's a pretty big and shady business
2019-07-24T02:52:53 < mawk> you can't subsidize single houses, but for single houses you can take help by the state to pay rent for poor people
2019-07-24T02:52:55 < salcedo> the state housed mentally challenged folks there. it was run sort of like a boarding house.
2019-07-24T02:53:24 < salcedo> they were people with learning disabilities or other types of cognitive disabilities where they could technically work and somewhat get along - they just needed an extra hand.
2019-07-24T02:53:27 < mawk> but house owners just raise the rent by the amount the state subsidizes, no effect only to deter out people that don't get the state boost
2019-07-24T02:53:45 < mawk> who would have thought welfare has detrimental effects
2019-07-24T02:53:49 < salcedo> if i turned around and said "here, anyone can live here." but was still taking government money for it, that's a huge problem.
2019-07-24T02:54:12 < mawk> it's like half state agencies that run the subsidized buildings here salcedo , not particular peoples
2019-07-24T02:54:21 < mawk> like, they own the whole building blocks and many many others in paris
2019-07-24T02:54:25 < salcedo> mawk: yep. same thing i was doing.
2019-07-24T02:55:02 < salcedo> mawk: it was a state agency that paid me the rent money for certain qualified tenants.
2019-07-24T02:55:13 < mawk> yeah that's a normal mechanism too here
2019-07-24T02:55:18 < mawk> for every house you rent
2019-07-24T02:55:35 < mawk> but it's a different mechanism from the appartement I'm in, for me it's just a lower rent, I get no money from the state, the rent is just blocked low
2019-07-24T02:55:44 < salcedo> ah
2019-07-24T02:55:49 < salcedo> but then you didn't get on their handouts :)
2019-07-24T02:55:59 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-24T02:56:07 < salcedo> so they are like "who iz diz mawk d00d and y he no take our money? what is his income anyway?"
2019-07-24T02:56:27 < salcedo> so yea that's your bad. lol
2019-07-24T02:56:53 < salcedo> i don't blame you for not wanting to take the assistance though.
2019-07-24T02:57:14 < salcedo> i've since lost the property years back (it burned down)
2019-07-24T02:57:18 < jadew> so let me get this straight
2019-07-24T02:57:20 < salcedo> and now i am extremely low income
2019-07-24T02:57:21 < mawk> everything would have gone smoothly if a neighbor didn't tell on us
2019-07-24T02:57:31 < jadew> if I move to france, I can get assistance from the start?
2019-07-24T02:57:38 < salcedo> i technically qualify for all kinds of welfare and shit - but i refuse to do it.
2019-07-24T02:57:39 < mawk> what do you mean by assistance jadew ?
2019-07-24T02:57:46 < jadew> MONEY
2019-07-24T02:57:50 < mawk> if you're french chances are you qualify for some assistance yes
2019-07-24T02:57:59 < jadew> I'm not
2019-07-24T02:58:02 < mawk> assistance to start a business, assistance for single moms, assistance for paying your rent, contract assistance, etc
2019-07-24T02:58:13 < mawk> if you're not french there are assistance too for some categories of population
2019-07-24T02:58:16 < mawk> like if you're poor enough or whatever
2019-07-24T02:58:22 < salcedo> are you sure, mawk?
2019-07-24T02:58:26 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-24T02:58:31 < jadew> what about staying for free in an apartment, I heard there's a recent vacancy where you live
2019-07-24T02:58:33 < salcedo> hmm.. that's not what the internet sayz
2019-07-24T02:58:35 < mawk> far right is pretty vocal about welfare for refugees that aren't even french
2019-07-24T02:58:45 < mawk> lol jadew 
2019-07-24T02:58:46 < salcedo> yea lol
2019-07-24T02:58:57 < jadew> :)
2019-07-24T02:59:07 < salcedo> i think far right in america's view of france is that they're giving free everything to syrians and shiz
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2019-07-24T02:59:19 < salcedo> multiculturalism destroying europe
2019-07-24T02:59:42 < salcedo> but i've seen with my own eyes what our gov is doing here. and it's bad.
2019-07-24T02:59:52 < BrainDamage> from europe's pov america has only far right and slightly far right
2019-07-24T03:00:05 < BrainDamage> mind you, we have far right here as well, but it's not the only choice
2019-07-24T03:00:09 < salcedo> we also have a very messed up extreme left.
2019-07-24T03:00:28 < BrainDamage> your left here would be classified more like liberal hippies
2019-07-24T03:00:36 < salcedo> no. these aren't just hippies.
2019-07-24T03:01:35 < jadew> BrainDamage, liberals are now classified as right leaning in the US
2019-07-24T03:01:41 < salcedo> lol yeah
2019-07-24T03:01:46 < jadew> leftist are commies
2019-07-24T03:01:49 < jadew> (there)
2019-07-24T03:02:00 < salcedo> our left is straight up violent terrorist cultural marxists now
2019-07-24T03:02:23 < salcedo> and 2020 election year is going to be a bloodbath
2019-07-24T03:02:58 < salcedo> it's to the point where traditional left leaning people are now starting to distance themselves from the "unhinged" far left here.
2019-07-24T03:03:16 < BrainDamage> well, not terrorism level, we actually did get terrorism from the commies in the 70s
2019-07-24T03:03:30 < BrainDamage> funded by the cia, to avoid the ghost of communism
2019-07-24T03:03:32 < jadew> I think I've said it before, but this socialism movement, is perfectly normal and I think it's going to keep growing
2019-07-24T03:03:56 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_gladio#First_publicly_revealed_in_Italy
2019-07-24T03:04:51 < BrainDamage> see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Years_of_Lead_(Italy)
2019-07-24T03:05:24 < BrainDamage> both left and right wing extremists bombing public places, because fuck people
2019-07-24T03:05:47 < salcedo> heh yea. so far most of the violence has been on the far right. but i think this year the far left will surprise us.
2019-07-24T03:06:06 < salcedo> like REAL violence. not the bike lock antifa crap.
2019-07-24T03:06:10 < jadew> BrainDamage, wait, that was done to keep people afraid of communism?
2019-07-24T03:06:16 < BrainDamage> jadew: yes
2019-07-24T03:06:29 < jadew> BrainDamage, didn't know about it
2019-07-24T03:07:11 < salcedo> what would you rather have?
2019-07-24T03:07:25 < jadew> other than what?
2019-07-24T03:07:27 < BrainDamage> people chosing to not have communism without the aid of bombings
2019-07-24T03:07:47 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah... keep dreaming :)
2019-07-24T03:07:54 < salcedo> would you rather have an economy where people's only incentive is pure profit, or an economy where people's only incentive is ideological.
2019-07-24T03:08:11 < jadew> people will want communism as we get more and more developed as a society
2019-07-24T03:08:12 < salcedo> i.e. "for the common good" or "for money god damnit"
2019-07-24T03:08:47 < jadew> there are many ways in which you can reach the conclusion that "you know what, I think I should have a piece of that pie too"
2019-07-24T03:09:04 < salcedo> the only way i see the socialism experiment in the US going is "for the common good" if you're poor, and "for money god damnit" if you're the ultra rich. it will be the most extreme form of inequality the world has ever seen - all sugar coated with iphones and libracoin.
2019-07-24T03:09:13 < jadew> and it's normal, because it becomes increasingly difficult to get a piece of that pie the normal way (working for it)
2019-07-24T03:09:43 < salcedo> at least now we can go for a bigger piece of the pie.
2019-07-24T03:09:53 < BrainDamage> I'm perfectly ok with the idea of giving every human being a modicum of living standard
2019-07-24T03:10:06 < BrainDamage> but what communism doesn't address is the possibility of personal growth
2019-07-24T03:10:23 < salcedo> if we keep going the way we're going, it will be systematically and perhaps legally impossible to go for a bigger piece of the pie.
2019-07-24T03:10:49 < jadew> BrainDamage, it does, but you don't get anything extra
2019-07-24T03:11:01 < jadew> so the possibility is there, the motivation isn't
2019-07-24T03:11:05 < salcedo> BrainDamage: what if your modicum of living standard is different than mine?
2019-07-24T03:11:48 < BrainDamage> salcedo: start to address basic needs everywhere first, then we can discuss about the extras
2019-07-24T03:12:03 < salcedo> all of our needs are met
2019-07-24T03:12:52 < BrainDamage> is it? when you hit the poverty line wage you cannot afford to eat every day
2019-07-24T03:13:02 < salcedo> silicon valley is pushing a lot of this ideology... yet they have highest poverty/homeless/inequality in our country. why is that?
2019-07-24T03:13:26 < salcedo> shouldn't they be a beacon of "everyone's basic needs are met" if that's the rhetoric they're constantly spouting at us?
2019-07-24T03:13:58 < jadew> BrainDamage, I've been there and didn't access any social program
2019-07-24T03:14:11 < jadew> you'd be surprised how little you need to live from day to day
2019-07-24T03:14:15 < salcedo> lol i'm there now.
2019-07-24T03:14:32 < salcedo> i haven't filed a tax return in 2 years because my income is so low i'm not legally required to.
2019-07-24T03:15:14 < salcedo> the federal poverty line is up there somewhere. not going to strain my neck to see it.
2019-07-24T03:15:14 < jadew> well, there's a difference between not having income and not having money
2019-07-24T03:15:39 < salcedo> true
2019-07-24T03:16:08 < salcedo> i have $0 savings. i think my bank acct has about $4 right now.
2019-07-24T03:16:12 < salcedo> no assets.
2019-07-24T03:16:16 < salcedo> no passive income.
2019-07-24T03:16:31 < BrainDamage> the limit for no tax here is ~600€/month, while the poverty line is around ~400
2019-07-24T03:16:46 < salcedo> lol that's opposite what it is here
2019-07-24T03:17:14 < jadew> that's higher than the average income here lol
2019-07-24T03:17:17 < salcedo> here it's a little over $10k/year while poverty line is a little higher i think
2019-07-24T03:17:33 < BrainDamage> jadew: remember that cost of life is factored in
2019-07-24T03:17:51 < salcedo> the way it's designed here is there is a "slavery range" of income.
2019-07-24T03:17:56 < jadew> ah, it's not higher, but close
2019-07-24T03:18:15 < BrainDamage> in fact I'd love the idea of a virtual currency where the exchange rate is the country's average life cost
2019-07-24T03:18:26 < BrainDamage> so you can directly compare the price of goods in diff places
2019-07-24T03:18:27 < salcedo> sure
2019-07-24T03:18:29 < salcedo> libra can be that currency
2019-07-24T03:19:16 < BrainDamage> by virtual currency I don't mean a cryptocurrency, just a virtual mathematical tool that's kept updated
2019-07-24T03:19:46 < salcedo> monopoly money :)
2019-07-24T03:19:50 < jadew> BrainDamage, it kinda is, but it only works if you don't leave the country
2019-07-24T03:20:21 < BrainDamage> well, you can compare your buying and spending power
2019-07-24T03:28:03 < salcedo> ok
2019-07-24T03:28:06 < salcedo> i'm gonna go full retard
2019-07-24T03:28:16 < salcedo> was going to use L062
2019-07-24T03:28:26 < salcedo> but i kind of want to play with the G431
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2019-07-24T03:28:58 < salcedo> G4 not part of libopencm3 yet at all :)
2019-07-24T03:29:20 < dongs> does opencm3 support anything modern at all
2019-07-24T03:29:26 < dongs> i looked at it once, it was barelyt feature complete with f103
2019-07-24T03:29:30 < dongs> anything else was missing tons of shit
2019-07-24T03:30:41 < salcedo> depends on what you mean by modern
2019-07-24T03:31:17 < salcedo> all of the vital organs are there
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2019-07-24T03:41:55 < zyp> it supports whatever people have bothered adding
2019-07-24T03:42:22 < zyp> i.e. what people have actually had any use for so far
2019-07-24T03:42:34 < zyp> just like laks
2019-07-24T03:43:10 < zyp> except that libopencm3 has a lot more users and therefore has seen a lot more varied use
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2019-07-24T03:57:39 < stmuck> I'm back in my livecd and no further btrfs restores worked. Even the tree roots found changed since I kept my system live while I slept. So now I'm using photorec to recover all text-based files without headers, and I have a script to mv files that have certain words I know exist in the corrupted files restored before.
2019-07-24T03:57:56 < dongs> what
2019-07-24T03:58:04 < dongs> did you unplug your lunix in 2019
2019-07-24T03:58:07 < dongs> and it managed to trash your data
2019-07-24T03:58:09 < stmuck> Luckily I've gotten some chunks back so far.
2019-07-24T03:58:22 < dongs> protip: if you want to get shit done, use windows
2019-07-24T03:58:26 < stmuck> Nope. I rm -rf'd a folder because I was out of it.
2019-07-24T03:58:38 < dongs> ah 2019 and lunix still has no undelete
2019-07-24T03:58:39 < dongs> nice
2019-07-24T03:58:41 < stmuck> I had windows before, but moved after Vista.
2019-07-24T03:58:55 < dongs> sorry to hear that.
2019-07-24T03:59:00 < stmuck> Some of the fs have undelete like all of the ext# I think.
2019-07-24T03:59:28 < stmuck> I shouldn't have to be protected from my own stupidity though. It's my fault and I'm paying for it.
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2019-07-24T04:01:29 < aandrew> stmuck: I downloaded teh code you put up this morning, do you want it back?
2019-07-24T04:01:58 < aandrew> linux has recycle bin functionality if you enable it
2019-07-24T04:02:43 < mawk> your desktop environment has
2019-07-24T04:02:46 < mawk> but not in the terminal
2019-07-24T04:02:54 < mawk> when you unlink(2) a file it's gone
2019-07-24T04:02:55 < stmuck> No, I still have that in the cloud. Thanks though. There's just 2 main programs I'm trying to restore, one of which was the client interface to the st programmer.
2019-07-24T04:02:59 < mawk> but in windows too I guess
2019-07-24T04:03:06 < mawk> if you DEL from console the file is gone for good
2019-07-24T04:03:18 < dongs> wut
2019-07-24T04:03:18 < aandrew> one of which was the client interface to the st programmer.
2019-07-24T04:03:21 < dongs> desktop environemtn
2019-07-24T04:03:21 < aandrew> why not just download it again
2019-07-24T04:03:22 < dongs> recycle bins
2019-07-24T04:03:25 < dongs> the fuck yall on about
2019-07-24T04:03:37 < dongs> who teh fuck actually uses a lunix desktop environment
2019-07-24T04:03:43 < mawk> me
2019-07-24T04:03:47 < dongs> bullshit
2019-07-24T04:03:49 < aandrew> dongs: you were mocking linux for lack of undelete
2019-07-24T04:03:50 < mawk> lol
2019-07-24T04:03:56 < mawk> I'm on linux since I'm 6 or 7 dongs 
2019-07-24T04:03:59 < mawk> I ordered ubuntu CD by the mail
2019-07-24T04:04:17 < dongs> you mean you didnt install slackware from 23 floppies?
2019-07-24T04:04:17 < dongs> fuck you
2019-07-24T04:04:20 < mawk> lol
2019-07-24T04:04:28 < dongs> fucking hipsterfaggot
2019-07-24T04:04:29 < stmuck> Ya, I have the trashcan, but I don't use it because I'm very conscious of my actions. I was very tired and not paying attention and screwed myself. Again, solely my fault and I shouldn't let myself get to that point.
2019-07-24T04:05:48 < stmuck> Yeah, when you delete, the file IS unlinked, but the data is there and if you catch it fast enough, you can still restore it as I have with a ton of other files in the ST dir I deleted.
2019-07-24T04:06:00 < mawk> yeah it stays on disk
2019-07-24T04:06:13 < salcedo> mawk isn't using a desktop environment
2019-07-24T04:06:35 < mawk> my kde is very fine
2019-07-24T04:06:43 < salcedo> you are not running kde
2019-07-24T04:06:50 < mawk> but it's not hipstery enough for the folks at ##linux so I'm ostracized
2019-07-24T04:06:52 < salcedo> you're running 113 firefox tabs of spyware OS
2019-07-24T04:06:56 < mawk> lol
2019-07-24T04:07:16 < stmuck> aandrew, the cloud program is fine. I have that restored I believe, but that is only what I flash to my ST. I created a menu'd interface for in csharp to my ST to perform spi actions to my AVR.
2019-07-24T04:07:18 < mawk> I have passphrase sync for chrome, my data is fine
2019-07-24T04:07:39 < salcedo> o jfc you sync all of your "activities" to google too?
2019-07-24T04:07:49 < stmuck> dongs is an interesting character on here.
2019-07-24T04:07:51 < mawk> no, passwords, bookmarks, stuff like this
2019-07-24T04:07:53 < salcedo> where's weatherbug? how many weatherbugs do you have open?
2019-07-24T04:08:41 < mawk> firefox was kinda slow with my tabs needs
2019-07-24T04:09:46 < salcedo> when you get neuralink, your brain is going to segfault the cloud trying to sync all of those tabs
2019-07-24T04:10:29 -!- aeo1ack is now known as psprint
2019-07-24T04:10:39 < aandrew> stmuck: ah. that sucks
2019-07-24T04:10:45 < aandrew> revision control for sure
2019-07-24T04:11:29 < aandrew> I have my projects folder sync'd to a few different computers and one of them has 5 levels of "undo" 
2019-07-24T04:12:37 < dongs> yeah even using git shit locally is decent
2019-07-24T04:15:12 < stmuck> Yeah, I "should" make use of the btrfs snapshots, but that isn't the problem. It's my failure at human control. I need to control myself properly and not rely on safeguards.
2019-07-24T04:15:36 < mawk> humans are faillible, your computer is less faillible
2019-07-24T04:15:44 < mawk> so you should rely on the computer instead
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2019-07-24T04:15:54 < mawk> and canalize your self-control energy to learn a martial art for instance
2019-07-24T04:17:58 < stmuck> I'll disagree on the fallible part in this case at least because I should have slowed down, paid attention. Conscious mistakes can be avoided.
2019-07-24T04:19:29 < stmuck> There is something to be said about the brain deteriorating beyond the point of self-control, but I don't believe this would apply at that moment in time.
2019-07-24T04:20:37 < aandrew> stmuck> Yeah, I "should" make use of the btrfs snapshots, but that isn't the problem. It's my failure at human control. I need to control myself properly and not rely on safeguards
2019-07-24T04:20:40 < aandrew> wrong
2019-07-24T04:20:43 < aandrew> wrong wrong wrong on all kinds of levels
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2019-07-24T04:22:01 < stmuck> The snapshots is fine for stuff like hardware failures, electricity dropouts, etc..., but I don't want to bubblewrap myself if I can just consciously tread carefully.
2019-07-24T04:22:22 < aandrew> nah
2019-07-24T04:22:24 < BrainDamage> that's like saying you shouldn't use safety belts because you're motivated to drive better
2019-07-24T04:22:29 < aandrew> that way of thinking is frankly idiotic
2019-07-24T04:23:16 < aandrew> people fuck up. you're a people. you should try to adjust your way of thinking because it makes you come off as a bit of a pompous self-important nerd
2019-07-24T04:23:30 < stmuck> BrainDamage (how appropriate :)), seatbelts are taken into consideration of external events like other bad drivers or a bridge collapsing.
2019-07-24T04:23:32 < aandrew> I'm certain that's not your intent, just letting you know what it looks like from the other side of the screen
2019-07-24T04:23:44 < stmuck> I just strive for perfection.
2019-07-24T04:24:13 < stmuck> Yet, I am very human as demonstrated by my failure.
2019-07-24T04:24:34 < stmuck> But again, that is my fault, no extraneous excuses.
2019-07-24T04:26:57 < englishman> my computer has an undo button but i refuse to use it
2019-07-24T04:27:38 < stmuck> There, I will say I actually do use it and am going to take your statement as sarcasm.
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2019-07-24T04:33:31 < salcedo> last time i used btrfs, i rebooted^H^H^H^H^H^H nope.
2019-07-24T04:33:39 < salcedo> corrupt. never again.
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2019-07-24T04:35:55 < aandrew> my work machines are all snapshotted VMs; no fancy or cool filesystems. I have a laptop I use to access them for the most part, but I do softare dev on the laptop too
2019-07-24T04:36:14 < dongs> youre also not mentioning the part wehre yourun fucking macos
2019-07-24T04:36:20 < dongs> you distusting huipsterfaggot
2019-07-24T04:36:35 < bitmask> stop drinking dongs
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2019-07-24T04:38:14 < salcedo> this is your brain on dongs
2019-07-24T04:40:10 < englishman> https://www.wikihow.com/Avoid-Arguments-in-IRC
2019-07-24T04:43:41 < salcedo> dongs: tell us about your Desktop Environment?
2019-07-24T04:43:48 < dongs> windows 10 1903
2019-07-24T04:43:49 < dongs> what else?
2019-07-24T04:44:28 < salcedo> Cool. What are some things you like about it?
2019-07-24T04:44:36 < dongs> it works
2019-07-24T04:44:42 < dongs> and it runs software i use
2019-07-24T04:45:06 < salcedo> do you personalize it in any way or like to keep it completely default?
2019-07-24T04:46:07 < dongs> no, i dont have time to waste for such shit
2019-07-24T04:47:26 < salcedo> thank you for taking the survey. we now have a challenge.
2019-07-24T04:49:00 < salcedo> find a suitable wallpaper, and convince dongs to set it. entries shall be cheerful and in great taste. inspirational. motivational.
2019-07-24T04:50:19 < dongs> retarded
2019-07-24T04:50:23 < dongs> who the fuck actually uses wallpapers
2019-07-24T04:50:28 < dongs> how often do you even SEE your desktop?
2019-07-24T04:50:44 < dongs> my wallpaper is either default windows thing or solid blue depending on how much i could be arsed to right click destkop/customize
2019-07-24T04:55:35 < salcedo> me personally. never.
2019-07-24T04:55:39 < salcedo> i don't like window decorations.
2019-07-24T04:56:05 < salcedo> nor clicking on things
2019-07-24T04:57:08 < dongs> sorry to hear that
2019-07-24T04:57:15 < dongs> maybe you should go back to your 80x25 textmode console
2019-07-24T04:57:22 < dongs> and watch lunix kernel build scroll on it
2019-07-24T04:57:24 < dongs> for hours at a time
2019-07-24T05:00:23 < salcedo> 80x24
2019-07-24T05:04:55 < englishman> holy fuck
2019-07-24T05:04:55 < englishman> fuck
2019-07-24T05:04:57 < englishman> SAMTEC
2019-07-24T05:04:58 < englishman> fuuuuuck
2019-07-24T05:05:21 < englishman> what the shit is a company doing MANUALLY keying in addresses in 2019
2019-07-24T05:06:30 < englishman> there are 3 addresses in this email, all 3 are wrong but in 2 different ways
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2019-07-24T09:37:55 < Thorn> The connector set is slightly waterproof.
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2019-07-24T10:08:44 < jadew> my box is finished: http://5.12.174.230/stuff/box.jpg
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2019-07-24T10:22:18 < Thorn> should I cut ground planes around my RF stuff and leave the connection under the power/data lines only? https://i.imgur.com/apnTzFA.png
2019-07-24T10:22:24 < Thorn> or is it unnecessary
2019-07-24T10:22:49 < Thorn> I'm going to put lots of vias all around the RF part of course
2019-07-24T10:23:36 < jadew> usually not necessary
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2019-07-24T10:35:33 < dongs> what was everyone's favorite 1S lipo charger/i2c gauge all in one
2019-07-24T10:44:45 < jadew> I just made some tests, turns out expensive coaxial assembly is better than a 20 times cheaper one
2019-07-24T10:47:50 < jadew> yes
2019-07-24T10:48:47 < jadew> you can compute that too
2019-07-24T10:48:58 < jadew> yesterday's temperature in Kelvin / 20 :)
2019-07-24T10:50:59 < jadew> I might have exaggerated with the 20... it's more like 15
2019-07-24T10:52:17 < jadew> the problem with that is that there's not much room to make a profit on the expensive assembly
2019-07-24T10:53:22 < jadew> I wouldn't have cared if it was cheaper, but at ~$50/pcs, it's a rather high risk if you consider returns and warranty
2019-07-24T10:58:34 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdyppm7hTFI NSFD
2019-07-24T10:59:10 < jadew> Thorn, you know those people?
2019-07-24T10:59:19 < Thorn> no
2019-07-24T11:01:24 < jadew> I wouldn't like to have an animal that can kill me if he gets upset
2019-07-24T11:03:38 < jadew> I live in an apartment, they suck in that environment
2019-07-24T11:04:23 < jadew> hair everywhere, they have to be trained to piss and shit in a box, you have to take care of the box regularly, they want to go out
2019-07-24T11:04:54 < PaulFertser> I can't enjoy watching bobcattv anymore, each time I start thinking about the mamba suicide...
2019-07-24T11:04:56 < jadew> you kinda do, otherwise they piss everywhere
2019-07-24T11:05:10 < jadew> PaulFertser, what mamba suicide?
2019-07-24T11:05:13 < dongs> knew better than to click on thorn's garabge link
2019-07-24T11:05:30 < ds2> dongs: what are you doing that needs the accuracy of a gauge chip?
2019-07-24T11:05:48 < jadew> Haohmaru, I've had cats in an apartment, doesn't always goes like that
2019-07-24T11:05:49 < dongs> ds2, just to know teh battery percentagy/whatever.
2019-07-24T11:05:59 < dongs> should I just yolo it with resistor divider and adc?
2019-07-24T11:06:03 < jadew> sure, they like the sand, but if they feel like pissing in the living room, they will
2019-07-24T11:06:10 < ds2> dongs: the voltage will give you a first order estimate of that
2019-07-24T11:06:30 < PaulFertser> jadew: the guy that started all that was a big fan of reptiles, snakes, and then IIRC he had relationship issues with that Katya girl and was in a depression or some such and made black mamba bite him on camera.
2019-07-24T11:06:47 < ds2> only thing tricky with resistor/adc is making sure the adc will tolerate a voltage applied if it is off (i.e. halted) 
2019-07-24T11:06:57 < jadew> PaulFertser, no way...
2019-07-24T11:07:08 < dongs> good riddance
2019-07-24T11:07:14 < dongs> i wish all those fucking animal abusers get bitten on camera
2019-07-24T11:07:18 < ds2> 3.0 = 0%, 4.2V = 100% is not too far off as an estimate
2019-07-24T11:07:54 < PaulFertser> dongs: that guy wasn't really abusing snakes though, he was a well-known expert.
2019-07-24T11:08:39 < jadew> Haohmaru, they try to cover it, but carpet can't be dug out that easily with their rear feet
2019-07-24T11:08:49 < PaulFertser> I think Thorn can tell more, I tend to forget things I'm not happy with.
2019-07-24T11:09:12 < jadew> did you see the video?
2019-07-24T11:09:19 < jadew> they uploaded it on youtube or what?
2019-07-24T11:09:49 < PaulFertser> Streamed live, I do not remember where exactly, and I think I didn't watch it. But I read a great deal of articles and discussions wrt incident.
2019-07-24T11:10:09 < PaulFertser> It was discussed on this channel btw.
2019-07-24T11:10:31 < PaulFertser> Haohmaru: that one was real, unfortunately. He died in a hospital the day or two later.
2019-07-24T11:11:35 < PaulFertser> Depression, alcohol, and he was used to taking risks with the snakes. That time it all went too far.
2019-07-24T11:12:40 < jadew> did that chick say anything on camera?
2019-07-24T11:12:51 < jadew> I think I remember the guy from older videos
2019-07-24T11:13:09 < PaulFertser> Thorn should remember
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2019-07-24T11:50:32 < jly> thanks mate
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2019-07-24T11:59:20 < dongs> ds2: so this retard insists on an actual gauge
2019-07-24T12:05:56 < dongs> looks like DS2782 is in china
2019-07-24T12:05:57 < dongs> fuckit.
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2019-07-24T13:44:09 < dongs> LoRAbee
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2019-07-24T15:17:31 < qyx> PaulFertser: wat wat are you talking about the lynx lynx & girl videos?
2019-07-24T15:17:58 < qyx> is she his gf? or hetter, was she
2019-07-24T15:18:28 < PaulFertser> qyx: https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/647867/Youtuber-Arslan-Valeev-man-lets-killer-snake-black-mamba-bite-him-live-suicide-video
2019-07-24T15:20:16 < qyx> uf
2019-07-24T15:21:28 < Mangy_Dog> the fuck?
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2019-07-24T16:34:42 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/ROADF9Z.gifv
2019-07-24T16:40:41 < BrainDamage> I'm not sure what he was attempting to do
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2019-07-24T17:14:08 < Steffanx> BrainDamage doesn't do that when he's drunk?
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2019-07-24T17:35:59 < invzim> anyone got experience with enclosures and cutouts?
2019-07-24T17:36:09 < invzim> looking at this one http://www.yonggu-enclosure.com/product/details/id/68.html
2019-07-24T17:38:02 < invzim> intial quote is 360usd+260usd shipping for qty 100, including cutouts - waiting to hear back on silkscreen etc
2019-07-24T17:52:41 < Cracki> could be cheaper locally
2019-07-24T17:53:18 < Cracki> my boss only uses off the shelf stuff or tiny numbers of custom designs
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2019-07-24T18:56:32 < bitmask> what is up
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2019-07-24T19:32:50 < Ultrasauce> +z
2019-07-24T19:36:36 < jadew> invzim, that sounds about right
2019-07-24T19:36:51 < jadew> but it's worth asking more suppliers
2019-07-24T19:37:21 < bitmask> too many damn projects going on right now
2019-07-24T19:37:21 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/0urmOVj.jpg
2019-07-24T19:37:29 < bitmask> thats 3 right there
2019-07-24T19:38:00 < jadew> I have like 10+ ongoing projects
2019-07-24T19:38:15 < jadew> I keep track in a file
2019-07-24T19:38:27 < bitmask> I have other stuff I want to work on too
2019-07-24T19:38:31 < bitmask> not enough time
2019-07-24T19:38:39 < bitmask> oh shit its later than I thought, cya
2019-07-24T19:38:46 < jadew> sleep tight
2019-07-24T19:38:56 < bitmask> for an appt, not sleep :) its not even 1pm
2019-07-24T19:39:10 < jadew> yeah, I realized after I watchted the clock :)
2019-07-24T19:39:17  * jadew has no sense of time
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2019-07-24T19:56:13 < Cracki> you aren't even in the same time zone
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2019-07-24T20:03:32 < Steffanx> Good morning jadew
2019-07-24T20:06:16 < jadew> good morning
2019-07-24T20:06:32 < jadew> *looked at the clock
2019-07-24T20:07:14 < jadew> I'm tired - probably why I thought he's going to bed
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2019-07-24T20:28:36 < hpcadmin> hu
2019-07-24T20:28:38 < hpcadmin> hi
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2019-07-24T20:36:42 < Steffanx> lo
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2019-07-24T21:59:30 < Thorn> starhopper live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0XQM1bF6nA
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2019-07-24T22:00:20 < Thorn> CRS-18 T - 3.5 hrs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wa3EDUuP5I
2019-07-24T22:01:11 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfRULatzLZQ
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2019-07-24T22:06:21 < Steffanx> ty
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2019-07-24T22:35:24 < superbia> good evening pros
2019-07-24T22:38:09 < Steffanx> welcome
2019-07-24T22:38:18 < superbia> Steffanx: join us
2019-07-24T22:38:18 < Steffanx> hows the holiday
2019-07-24T22:38:21 < Steffanx> us?
2019-07-24T22:38:24 < superbia> #space
2019-07-24T22:38:51 < superbia> dont tag me
2019-07-24T22:38:53 < superbia> we get banned
2019-07-24T22:38:58 < superbia> nasa guys are moderators
2019-07-24T22:39:03 < superbia> for fuck fucking sake
2019-07-24T22:39:09 < Steffanx> too late
2019-07-24T22:39:29 < superbia> For those following Lightsail 2: Great news, everyone: We downloaded partial imagery from #LightSail2 this
2019-07-24T22:40:04 < superbia> Steffanx: looking wheter to spend money on a kindle, or on whores
2019-07-24T22:40:42 < superbia> Steffanx: greek woman are. ..
2019-07-24T22:41:09 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-07-24T22:41:57 < Steffanx> you're right swisser now. so both
2019-07-24T22:42:00 < Steffanx> *rich
2019-07-24T22:42:07 < Steffanx> not sure why i wrote right.
2019-07-24T22:42:23 < superbia> plaka mou kaneis
2019-07-24T22:42:48 < Steffanx> Doesnt ring a bell
2019-07-24T22:43:12 < superbia> did you read the new bjorg cpp17 boox
2019-07-24T22:44:20 < Steffanx> nope
2019-07-24T22:44:26 < superbia> dude
2019-07-24T22:45:39 < Steffanx> who the f*ck is bjorg?
2019-07-24T22:45:58 < mawk> some company that sells soy milk
2019-07-24T22:46:38 < Steffanx> oh, explains why i didnt read their books
2019-07-24T22:46:42 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@207.195.106.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
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2019-07-24T22:48:50 < superbia> bjarne
2019-07-24T22:50:22 < Steffanx> Did he even write a book about the 17 yet?
2019-07-24T22:53:09 < Steffanx> So what is superbia up to
2019-07-24T22:53:30 < superbia> Steffanx: when you are told your c++ looks like c
2019-07-24T22:54:04 < Steffanx> They never do that.
2019-07-24T22:54:11 < catphish> does anyone know how i might buy these needles https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/970x728/2424-02.jpg
2019-07-24T22:54:41 < Mangy_Dog> ebay
2019-07-24T22:54:42 < Mangy_Dog> ali
2019-07-24T22:54:44 < Mangy_Dog> theyre quite common
2019-07-24T22:55:01 < catphish> Mangy_Dog: i can't find them :(
2019-07-24T22:55:08 < catphish> any idea what to search?
2019-07-24T22:56:28 < superbia> my friend bought a dev kit from adafruit for approx 800$cad
2019-07-24T22:56:42 < superbia> and they send him wrong items...
2019-07-24T22:56:45 < catphish> ah speedometer needle brings them up on ali
2019-07-24T22:57:44 < Steffanx> sue em superbia
2019-07-24T22:58:01 < superbia> nyc trash
2019-07-24T22:58:49 < specing> Wow, thats an expensive devkit
2019-07-24T23:00:02 < Steffanx> Hows the keyboard superbia
2019-07-24T23:00:34 < Mangy_Dog> hmm do you mean specifically the needle or the motor?
2019-07-24T23:00:39 < superbia> actually thinking about making new ones
2019-07-24T23:00:40 < Mangy_Dog> though ive seen needles all over the place
2019-07-24T23:00:45 < superbia> Steffanx: wanna check
2019-07-24T23:00:47 < superbia> ?
2019-07-24T23:00:48 < Steffanx> as in multiple?
2019-07-24T23:00:52 < superbia> ya
2019-07-24T23:01:02 < Steffanx> chekc what?
2019-07-24T23:01:10 < superbia> you can stack them, they are small... especially if you got more computers and monitors on desk
2019-07-24T23:01:33 < superbia> Steffanx: https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards
2019-07-24T23:02:13 < superbia> Steffanx: http://xahlee.info/kbd/diy_keyboards_index.html
2019-07-24T23:02:41 < Steffanx> some of those design.... hm
2019-07-24T23:03:01 < superbia> like for disabled children
2019-07-24T23:03:17 < Steffanx> yeah
2019-07-24T23:03:34 -!- onio [~onio@2a00:23c5:7a01:8600:5d1d:3a4e:41b1:640f] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2019-07-24T23:03:36 < superbia> or some weird japanese sex shows
2019-07-24T23:04:07 < superbia> to control some sex bots
2019-07-24T23:04:56 < superbia> Steffanx: http://xahlee.info/kbd/iergo/ergowarp_hm3vx-s1385x1039.jpg
2019-07-24T23:05:07 < Steffanx> ergo much
2019-07-24T23:05:32 < superbia> Steffanx: http://xahlee.info/kbd/i/lime40_keyboard_qjd4d.jpg
2019-07-24T23:05:36 < superbia> too much ?
2019-07-24T23:05:44 < superbia> :(
2019-07-24T23:06:08 < Steffanx> ofcourse
2019-07-24T23:08:13 < superbia> is pretty much only hardware stuffs I do now
2019-07-24T23:08:37 < Steffanx> i wont judge you. if you like it... i wont stop you :P
2019-07-24T23:08:45 < superbia> I need to hire a chimp to design me rPI host pcb's for serious projects
2019-07-24T23:09:00 < Mangy_Dog> want me to do it
2019-07-24T23:09:02 < Mangy_Dog> i need money
2019-07-24T23:09:05 < Steffanx> lol
2019-07-24T23:09:10 < Steffanx> the Mangy_Dog
2019-07-24T23:09:14 < Mangy_Dog> though im a dog not a monkey
2019-07-24T23:09:28 < superbia> your words
2019-07-24T23:10:21 < Mangy_Dog> not kidding tbh i really need the work D:
2019-07-24T23:11:37 < superbia> Mangy_Dog: do you use altidong
2019-07-24T23:12:33 < Mangy_Dog> altdong?
2019-07-24T23:12:51 < superbia> Steffanx: help
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2019-07-24T23:22:41 < Steffanx> kakimir can help you superbia
2019-07-24T23:23:06 < kakimir> 28Celsius bah.. I feel only cold
2019-07-24T23:23:22 < kakimir> I demand 35Celsius
2019-07-24T23:23:55 < Steffanx> you can come to dutchland kakimir
2019-07-24T23:23:57 < Steffanx> 39C
2019-07-24T23:23:59 < kakimir> every day now is the warmest day of the year
2019-07-24T23:24:19 < kakimir> and at weekend it plummets to 15C
2019-07-24T23:24:41 < kakimir> just when my finnish ass has adjusted itself to 25C
2019-07-24T23:25:39 < Steffanx> what's wrong mr superbia?
2019-07-24T23:25:40 < kakimir> very nice weather
2019-07-24T23:26:04 < superbia> he failed the first interview question
2019-07-24T23:26:30 < kakimir> dry, flying little shits are virtually absent or not interested to eat, sun shining
2019-07-24T23:26:42 < Steffanx> Are you a bot superbia? Sometimes your talk is so random
2019-07-24T23:27:14 < superbia> i am not a bot
2019-07-24T23:27:46 < Steffanx> A good bot would say that too :P
2019-07-24T23:28:09 < superbia> i am not a bot
2019-07-24T23:28:24 < jadew> I think it's stuck in a loop
2019-07-24T23:30:42 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/6HeAXif.png
2019-07-24T23:30:42 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/16FMCdeC5zmBTy07k_3jF4uiu9dKpL3xH/view?usp=sharing
2019-07-24T23:30:44 < bitmask> its only a little gay looking :P
2019-07-24T23:31:34 < Steffanx> looks cool imho
2019-07-24T23:32:00 < jadew> depends on where you put it
2019-07-24T23:32:02 < Steffanx> its not that the rainbow colours are OWNED by the lgtbbgthhgs
2019-07-24T23:32:30 < superbia> the shitbook is
2019-07-24T23:32:34 < jadew> they are if you put it on the bathroom door for example
2019-07-24T23:32:53 < Steffanx> no they are never.
2019-07-24T23:33:21 < superbia> Steffanx: he had to show the tip of the macbook on the picture
2019-07-24T23:33:28 < superbia> Steffanx: that is like propper swiss gay
2019-07-24T23:34:57 < bitmask> its not gonna be rainbow in the end anyway, not sure what its gonna be, maybe show what the weather is in a way, yellow for sunny, blue for rain, white for snow, etc
2019-07-24T23:35:27 < superbia> why not use it as a notification light
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2019-07-24T23:35:44 < jadew> like the bat signal?
2019-07-24T23:35:54 < bitmask> its gonna show the weather, why wouldnt I have it tell the weather :P
2019-07-24T23:36:05 < bitmask> digits inside showing temperature
2019-07-24T23:36:07 < jadew> it's a cool idea for the weather
2019-07-24T23:36:19 < bitmask> and its gonna be an infinity mirror too
2019-07-24T23:36:20 < superbia> it's plain stupid
2019-07-24T23:36:26 < bitmask> haha ok
2019-07-24T23:36:39 < superbia> enjoy wasting time, bye
2019-07-24T23:36:50 < bitmask> what a happy dude
2019-07-24T23:37:05 < superbia> i am a jew
2019-07-24T23:37:09 < Steffanx> ok
2019-07-24T23:37:22 < Steffanx> some would call your keyboards a waste of time as well superbia
2019-07-24T23:37:26 < Steffanx> hi superbia how was your day
2019-07-24T23:37:38 < jly> the loaded dog
2019-07-24T23:37:54 < superbia> Steffanx: 100% true, only if you type for a few years, you will gain time
2019-07-24T23:38:18 < superbia> the initial time is very costly... so you need like a dozen months to start gaining time
2019-07-24T23:38:19 < Steffanx> im not convinced.
2019-07-24T23:38:27 < superbia> my wpm is about 140 burst
2019-07-24T23:38:47 < bitmask> thats it?
2019-07-24T23:38:51 < superbia> ya?
2019-07-24T23:39:21 < jadew> I can do 140 wpm burst on a regular kb
2019-07-24T23:39:40 < superbia> around 120 wpm in 1 min
2019-07-24T23:39:44 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-24T23:40:00 < Steffanx> i hardly ever type things where "wpm" is really relevant
2019-07-24T23:40:01 < superbia> but in reality, you only type for a 20seconds continuously
2019-07-24T23:40:07 < jadew> that's what I do too, if I focus a little
2019-07-24T23:40:34 < jadew> chillax speed is a lot lower tho
2019-07-24T23:40:43 < superbia> idk what is chillax
2019-07-24T23:40:43 -!- sterna [~Adium@c83-248-167-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2019-07-24T23:40:56 < jadew> but what could you possibly write that is so meaningless you can pump it out at 140 wpm?
2019-07-24T23:41:55 < jadew> superbia, chillax = the speed I type at when I'm chill and don't care about typing fast
2019-07-24T23:42:14 < jadew> I think you can type fast on any kb, as long as you're practicing a bit
2019-07-24T23:42:28 < superbia> i had wrist pain before
2019-07-24T23:42:29 < jadew> is it not possible that you're getting those speeds simply because you're practicing a lot?
2019-07-24T23:42:44 < superbia> now no wrist pain
2019-07-24T23:42:53 < jadew> I only had wrist pain when I was a kid
2019-07-24T23:43:14 < superbia> i am a kid
2019-07-24T23:43:53 < jadew> there's also another problem with ergonomic keyboards
2019-07-24T23:44:05 < superbia> you can fly with them
2019-07-24T23:44:15 < jadew> if you smash it by mistake, you'll need another one just like that, otherwise you'll have to get used to some other form factor
2019-07-24T23:44:48 < jadew> what you linked looks cool tho
2019-07-24T23:45:12 < Steffanx> do you ever smash your keyboard by mistake?
2019-07-24T23:45:17 < superbia> you are a mature guy, you know what is good stuff
2019-07-24T23:45:45 < Steffanx> ##stm32 > mature guy.
2019-07-24T23:46:02 < jadew> I have pubes, so...
2019-07-24T23:46:37 < superbia> o i've found some meme youtube channels Steffanx 
2019-07-24T23:46:48 < Steffanx> i dont meme
2019-07-24T23:47:01 < Steffanx> at least i try to avoid it as much as possible
2019-07-24T23:47:01 < superbia> it's like too much even for ##stm32
2019-07-24T23:48:45 < Steffanx> hm
2019-07-24T23:48:50 < jadew> I want a movie
2019-07-24T23:48:57 < jadew> something motivational
2019-07-24T23:52:11 < Steffanx> Dont go for MIB international then
2019-07-24T23:52:14 < Steffanx> waste of time
2019-07-24T23:52:24 < jadew> thanks
2019-07-24T23:53:12 < superbia> so hot outside..
2019-07-24T23:53:19 < Steffanx> yes
2019-07-24T23:53:23 < jadew> where are you?
2019-07-24T23:53:29 < Steffanx> Still 26C
2019-07-24T23:53:31 < superbia> grek
2019-07-24T23:53:39 < Steffanx> greece?
2019-07-24T23:53:41 < jadew> ah, to be expected
2019-07-24T23:53:44 < superbia> greece
2019-07-24T23:53:51 < jadew> 22 here
2019-07-24T23:54:12 < Steffanx> why do you go to greece when you dont like the heat superbia?
2019-07-24T23:54:31 < jadew> he's a storm chaser
2019-07-24T23:54:50 < superbia> jadew: svenska?
2019-07-24T23:55:12 < Steffanx> You home country...
2019-07-24T23:55:31 < jadew> superbia, I don't know what that means, but I'm gonna answer... no :)
2019-07-24T23:55:55 < superbia> i have a heat map
2019-07-24T23:55:59 < superbia> i will find your village
2019-07-24T23:56:00 < superbia> motherfucker
2019-07-24T23:56:11 < jadew> hah, go ahead
2019-07-24T23:56:41 < superbia> Galati
2019-07-24T23:56:46 < jadew> lol, close
2019-07-24T23:56:53 < jadew> closer than svenska
2019-07-24T23:56:59 < superbia> how close
2019-07-24T23:57:00 < kakimir> remember when I won find the hottest place competition?
2019-07-24T23:57:07 < superbia> I am on the heat map
2019-07-24T23:57:22 < superbia> tell me wind
2019-07-24T23:57:22 < jadew> superbia, a couple of hundred km
2019-07-24T23:57:36 < jadew> 2 km/h
2019-07-24T23:59:24 < superbia> Craiova
2019-07-24T23:59:31 < jadew> no
--- Day changed Thu Jul 25 2019
2019-07-25T00:01:06 < superbia> I need to write a script that locates you
2019-07-25T00:01:06 < superbia> but Craiova is a hit
2019-07-25T00:01:23 < jadew> maybe the data is not up to date?
2019-07-25T00:01:29 < superbia> my data is current
2019-07-25T00:01:30 < jadew> I used google's info
2019-07-25T00:01:58 < jadew> what does your data say for Bucharest?
2019-07-25T00:02:05 < superbia> humidity is around 50% for your area
2019-07-25T00:02:11 < jadew> 70
2019-07-25T00:02:23 < jadew> at 100% you drown?
2019-07-25T00:02:54 < superbia> 20C NW3kt 70%
2019-07-25T00:03:06 < superbia> Bucharest
2019-07-25T00:03:08 < jadew> so google's data is outdated
2019-07-25T00:04:07 < superbia> but you are not in Bucharest
2019-07-25T00:04:10 < superbia> you are in a ghetto
2019-07-25T00:07:57 < superbia> Steffanx: enjoying the #space life?
2019-07-25T00:08:38 < Cracki> til: cutlistoptimizer.com
2019-07-25T00:08:42 < superbia> jadew: if it makes anything, google is probably going to acquire the website I use to track your location
2019-07-25T00:12:05 < jadew> don't know how many of you are into this, but I found something cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6N1axku8QA
2019-07-25T00:12:29 < jadew> UFC 1 :D
2019-07-25T00:13:09 < jadew> I guess I'm gonna watch that
2019-07-25T00:13:31 < superbia> don't know how many of you are into this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTaJmKd3Ztg
2019-07-25T00:13:51 < Cracki> bow chicka wow wow
2019-07-25T00:16:43 -!- friendofafriend [~chat@wsip-70-188-79-142.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2019-07-25T00:18:54 < jadew> btw, there were no weight classes back then
2019-07-25T00:18:58 < jadew> and no rules
2019-07-25T00:19:33 < jadew> (I bet there were some, but not as many as there are now)
2019-07-25T00:22:10 < jadew> no groin shots, no eye gouging and no biting - the only rules
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2019-07-25T00:26:52 < superbia> you enjoy watching naked men fight?
2019-07-25T00:27:10 < jadew> I do
2019-07-25T00:27:19 < PaulFertser> Groin attacks were legal at a certain time
2019-07-25T00:27:48 < jadew> PaulFertser, yeah, heard about that too, but the presenter said they're not
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2019-07-25T00:27:59 < jadew> yeah, there was a groin shot in the second fight
2019-07-25T00:28:05 < jadew> damn, this is brutal
2019-07-25T00:30:10 < superbia> bedtime
2019-07-25T00:30:14 < jadew> night
2019-07-25T00:30:17 < superbia> ty pro
2019-07-25T00:31:08 -!- superbia [~user@unaffiliated/superbia] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.4]
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2019-07-25T00:47:47  * catphish attacks PaulFertser'd groin
2019-07-25T00:51:05 < jadew> finished it
2019-07-25T00:51:11 < jadew> not particularly spectacular
2019-07-25T00:51:38 < jadew> it's interesting that they fought each other until there was only one winner
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2019-07-25T01:29:04 < Cracki> WTF SPACEX LAUNCH NOW and I had no idea?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wa3EDUuP5I
2019-07-25T01:29:19 < Cracki> Thorn, did you post that link yet or are you asleep?
2019-07-25T01:30:00 < effractur> Cracki: is is postponed
2019-07-25T01:30:03 < effractur> to tomorrow
2019-07-25T01:30:07 < Cracki> :S
2019-07-25T01:33:12 < salcedo> praise lord elongated muskrat
2019-07-25T01:33:23 < salcedo> receive the neuralink threads into your body
2019-07-25T01:36:28 < Cracki> kittehs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdyppm7hTFI
2019-07-25T01:45:18 -!- jly [uid355225@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-egydnptbdkvqprvf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
2019-07-25T01:47:50 < bitmask> spraying epoxy is fun, I wonder how much of the kitchen I coated in a fine layer of it
2019-07-25T01:50:39 < Cracki> if it acts as a sealant, that might not be a bad thing
2019-07-25T01:51:04 < bitmask> everything should have a thin coating of epoxy
2019-07-25T01:51:39 < bitmask> I wish this stuff auto leveled better though, but cant expect much for $4 for 8 oz of 5 min epoxy
2019-07-25T01:51:59 < bitmask> I should go pick up another box though at this price
2019-07-25T01:58:14 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2019-07-25T01:59:30 < Thorn> starhopper test: any time now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsBr9JJNrBw
2019-07-25T02:06:48 < Cracki> last time I saw such blocks was in a live stream when that one volcano jizzed
2019-07-25T02:18:33 < Ultrasauce> the potato codec goes really well with the heat shimmer
2019-07-25T02:19:52 < jadew> how long till they test it?
2019-07-25T02:19:57 < jadew> I just clicked
2019-07-25T02:20:40 < Cracki> nobody knows, says https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfb0cd17IAY
2019-07-25T02:22:23 < jadew> time for bed, night
2019-07-25T02:49:12 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-25T03:00:48 < Laurenceb> https://i.imgtc.ws/yZeuCzJ.jpg
2019-07-25T03:00:56 -!- con3 [~kvirc@ml.sun.ac.za] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-25T03:06:28 < Cracki> just imagine the music people could make with neuralink
2019-07-25T03:10:52 -!- con3 [~kvirc@ml.sun.ac.za] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.9.2 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/]
2019-07-25T03:11:07 < Laurenceb> possible starhopper hop coming up
2019-07-25T03:11:11 < Laurenceb> inb4 scrub
2019-07-25T03:13:02 < Laurenceb> inb4 someone uses neuralink to let horney incels pay to teleport into a pornstars body and get fucked
2019-07-25T03:14:17 < Laurenceb> ^the real market for neuralink
2019-07-25T03:15:09 < Laurenceb> https://mobile.twitter.com/bocachicagal?lang=en
2019-07-25T03:15:11 < specing> inb4 we get fusion before any of this
2019-07-25T03:15:20 < Laurenceb> why are latina thots so weird
2019-07-25T03:15:31 < Laurenceb> le nerd grrrl twitter
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2019-07-25T03:17:39 < Laurenceb> inb4 neuralink is used to enslave you as a "self driving" tesla car
2019-07-25T03:18:08 < specing> they want 5G so we'll have cars driven by indonesians
2019-07-25T03:18:16 < Laurenceb> >ai powered by actual brains connected via starlink and neuralink 
2019-07-25T03:18:56 < Laurenceb> >tfw you get abducted and your disembodied brain used to power "deep learning" nonsense for eternity
2019-07-25T03:19:46 < Laurenceb>  "Mary" has gone quiet, maybe she got blown up
2019-07-25T03:20:04 < mawk> some fake AI company is doing this Laurenceb 
2019-07-25T03:20:08 < mawk> with amazon mechanical turk
2019-07-25T03:20:18 < mawk> they're using indians for their fake machine learning algorithms
2019-07-25T03:20:23 < Laurenceb> yeah
2019-07-25T03:20:43 < mawk> it's the next generation of AI, RI
2019-07-25T03:20:46 < mawk> real intelligence
2019-07-25T03:20:51 < Laurenceb> >bocachicagrrrl is impaled on one of the landing legs
2019-07-25T03:20:52 < Laurenceb> lol
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2019-07-25T03:21:24 < Laurenceb> I want to know why "nerd grrrls" are so exceptionally autistic
2019-07-25T03:21:49 < Laurenceb> like nasaspaceflight forums is one of the most autistic places on the internet and seems to be about 35% female
2019-07-25T03:22:02 < Laurenceb> yet irc is slightly less autistic and >95% male
2019-07-25T03:22:51 < specing> just >95% male?
2019-07-25T03:23:05 < specing> okay, one in 20 maybe
2019-07-25T03:24:11 < Laurenceb> I guess if tech stuff tends to be male dominated then you have to be extra autistic to be female and heavily involved
2019-07-25T03:25:26 < Laurenceb> but that extra autism makes the difference between sanity and emdrive
2019-07-25T03:25:30 < Thorn> T - 5 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqUSRBJPYUE
2019-07-25T03:25:54 < Laurenceb> for what?
2019-07-25T03:26:10 < Laurenceb> oh official stream wow
2019-07-25T03:26:29 < Laurenceb> we get to watch nasaspaceflight forum members die in real time
2019-07-25T03:26:40 < Laurenceb> world autism level decreases
2019-07-25T03:27:10 < Cracki> haha thanks for showing me the connection between neuralink and starlink. he's building an untouchable low-latency data backbone spanning the whole planet... they talked about reaction time for neuralink too
2019-07-25T03:28:41 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/47120.0/1572452.jpg
2019-07-25T03:28:53 < Laurenceb> >BocaChicaGrrl has her own livestream
2019-07-25T03:29:13 < Laurenceb> >with scrolling live news
2019-07-25T03:29:14 < Laurenceb> wtf
2019-07-25T03:29:33 < Cracki> spacex stopped the countdown at -02:00
2019-07-25T03:29:38 < Cracki> whyyy
2019-07-25T03:29:49 < Cracki> press the button! press it!
2019-07-25T03:29:59 < Laurenceb> reee
2019-07-25T03:32:43 < Cracki> I wonder if the wood saw operator at the local hw store has a cut optimizer or if they figure the extra waste isn't worth bothering with
2019-07-25T03:33:00 < Cracki> that looks... fiery
2019-07-25T03:33:16 < Ultrasauce> i dont think flames are supposed to come from that end
2019-07-25T03:33:43 < Cracki> countdown at +3.42 and stopped... smells automated
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2019-07-25T03:35:46 < Laurenceb> looked like the engine fired briefly?
2019-07-25T03:39:24 < Laurenceb> inb4 some of the welding cracked
2019-07-25T03:39:58 < Laurenceb> I dont understand why they arent assembling horizontally with an assembly building/tent and some jigs
2019-07-25T03:40:31 < Laurenceb> odd https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/47120.0/1572499.jpg
2019-07-25T03:40:54 < Laurenceb> maybe the vibration+pressurisation was enough to crack a weld somewhere
2019-07-25T03:41:05 < dongs> the hell is starhopper
2019-07-25T03:42:15 < Laurenceb> prototype for musk mars ship
2019-07-25T03:43:45 < Laurenceb> wait wtf https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/47120.0/1572493.jpg
2019-07-25T03:43:50 < dongs> more like y/n/mare ship
2019-07-25T03:43:59 < Laurenceb> looks like the manhole fell off lmao
2019-07-25T03:44:14 < dongs> is nasaspaceflight a bunch of conspiracy cooks
2019-07-25T03:44:24 < dongs> they framestep every launch to find faults
2019-07-25T03:44:26 < Laurenceb> pretty much
2019-07-25T03:44:42 < Laurenceb> they are that crazy but not quite in that way
2019-07-25T03:44:54 < Laurenceb> they think moon landing is real and earth is round
2019-07-25T03:45:10 < Laurenceb> but also in electric universe, emdrive, and probably timecube
2019-07-25T03:46:04 < Laurenceb> inb4 they forgot to bolt on the manhole cover
2019-07-25T03:46:26 < Laurenceb> this is even worse than the last launch, where the manhole leaked, this time it completely blew off
2019-07-25T03:47:21 < dongs> <retard> so i took out the dell battery and carefully punch a tiny hole in each cell's packing foil to let the air out, and put it back in the laptop
2019-07-25T03:47:24 < dongs> ahhahahahahahahaha
2019-07-25T03:47:35 < dongs> his dell laptop battery was puffed up
2019-07-25T03:47:37 < dongs> this was his solution
2019-07-25T03:48:31 < Laurenceb> muh influxdb
2019-07-25T03:52:25 < salcedo> tf you think it's all about?
2019-07-25T03:53:14 < salcedo> neuralink + starlink = hive mind slave race of AI-controlled worker drones serving the Elysium class
2019-07-25T03:53:31 < salcedo> that's why they got all up in arms about the NPC meme last year
2019-07-25T03:53:56 < salcedo> gotta normalize that shit
2019-07-25T03:54:34 < salcedo> the elites obvz never watched the matrix
2019-07-25T03:54:50 < salcedo> the architect said the first matrix was too perfect and the subjects revolted
2019-07-25T03:54:58 < Cracki> they COMMISSIONED that movie to prepare the masses
2019-07-25T03:55:19 < salcedo> if you want to have a perfect matrix, you have to give them carrots to chase
2019-07-25T03:55:48 < salcedo> neuralink+starlink is just the evolution of that carrot and stick matrix
2019-07-25T03:55:57 < salcedo> the final step toward full spectrum domination
2019-07-25T03:56:14 < salcedo> once the NPCs are fully online, there's no going back. it will only progress into a deeper simulation.
2019-07-25T03:56:40 < salcedo> btw i'm making a "bluepill" thing kind of
2019-07-25T03:57:10 < salcedo> except it's not going to be pin compatible unless someone really wants to do the work
2019-07-25T03:57:18 < salcedo> i have another purpose for this
2019-07-25T04:02:05 < Laurenceb> keeek
2019-07-25T04:02:19 < Laurenceb> ywlts ##stm32 turn into /x/
2019-07-25T04:02:23 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2019-07-25T04:02:24 < Laurenceb> http://www.columbiadisaster.info/
2019-07-25T04:02:31 < Laurenceb> peak nasaspaceflight.com
2019-07-25T04:03:14 < Laurenceb> >The second possible scenario is that of a megalightning strike as suggested at thunderbolts.info, holoscience.com, superforce.com
2019-07-25T04:03:20 < Laurenceb> irl lolling hard
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2019-07-25T04:14:58 < englishman> Thorn: so what happened
2019-07-25T04:16:46 < Laurenceb> megalighting is the new emdrive
2019-07-25T04:16:59 < Laurenceb> thunderbolts.info is the new timecube.com
2019-07-25T04:17:55 < Laurenceb> >Wal Thornhill and Ev Cochrane describe the world our ancient ancestors knew until a great cataclysm befell our solar system changing the heavens above and the Earth below.
2019-07-25T04:18:18 < Laurenceb> <starship troopers> would you like to know more? </starship troopers>
2019-07-25T04:32:13 < Thorn> englishman: abort and some kind of fire from the top
2019-07-25T04:33:01 < Thorn> why do they have a 4.7Ω resistor between 2 Vdd pins of SI4463 on their reference boards? datasheets/appnotes are silent
2019-07-25T04:33:45 < Laurenceb> probably something to reduce crosstalk
2019-07-25T04:33:57 < Laurenceb> although they could have used an inductor...
2019-07-25T04:34:50 < Laurenceb> wait what the fuck http://www.holoscience.com/wp/
2019-07-25T04:35:05 < Laurenceb> >Hosted by University of Bath, UK
2019-07-25T04:35:14 < Laurenceb> I cant even right now
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2019-07-25T06:48:32 < salcedo> hehe schematic done for LoRaTab ;)
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2019-07-25T06:57:13 < dongs> chinese USB-C socket without highspeed lanes delivers
2019-07-25T06:57:18 < dongs> good quality, and works as advertised
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2019-07-25T06:58:59 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/8Nohqfs.jpg
2019-07-25T07:03:44 < salcedo> what is it
2019-07-25T07:06:30 < dongs> a usb-c connector
2019-07-25T07:06:32 < dongs> on a pcb
2019-07-25T07:06:50 < dongs> takes up about as much space as microusb and my stuff is in 2019
2019-07-25T07:06:53 < dongs> instead of 2009
2019-07-25T07:07:26 < salcedo> usb-c is 2019? say waaaa?
2019-07-25T07:07:59 < dongs> yeah, waht USB socket are YOU placing on your boards in 2019?
2019-07-25T07:08:50 < salcedo> just made a usb-a pads on pcb footprint
2019-07-25T07:09:02 < salcedo> to plug the pcb right into the usb port
2019-07-25T07:09:17 < dongs> disgusting but has its purpose
2019-07-25T07:09:47 < salcedo> i don't see type A going anywhere soon
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2019-07-25T07:30:48 < Thorn> dongs: what chip did you use for pd?
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2019-07-25T07:38:19 < dongs> hmm? no PD on here
2019-07-25T07:38:28 < dongs> just 5.1K to ground on both CCs
2019-07-25T07:38:35 < dongs> my shit is a sink, not source (in this board)
2019-07-25T07:38:41 < dongs> so i dont realyl carea bout PD negotiation too much
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2019-07-25T08:42:19 < invzim> Cracki: jadew thanks for input regarding enclosure
2019-07-25T08:46:31 < invzim> dongs: got part#/source for that usb-c?
2019-07-25T08:48:40 < invzim> still have no usb-c stuff in my house, but guess it's the future of things..
2019-07-25T08:49:12 < dongs> invzim: chiense thing. sec
2019-07-25T08:49:35 < dongs> U262-16XN-4BVC11
2019-07-25T08:51:23 < dongs> i also emailed sales@xkb and got a 3d model for it in like 10 minsd
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2019-07-25T08:53:47 < dongs> its on LCSC, tons of stock elsewhere in china etc.
2019-07-25T08:54:08 < dongs> a good part if you wanna do PD because it has everyting except 4 highspeed lanes
2019-07-25T08:54:34 < dongs> so it has cc, sbu, usb2 and vbus/gnd
2019-07-25T08:55:53 < invzim> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/USB-Connectors_XKB-Enterprise-U262-16XN-4BVC11_C319148.html
2019-07-25T08:56:05 < invzim> would be this one I guess?
2019-07-25T08:57:47 < invzim> yah
2019-07-25T08:59:13 < invzim> seems like a ton of gotchas with usb-c, when even rpi4 got it wrong
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2019-07-25T10:47:34 < dongs> RPI got it wrong literally because they're retards
2019-07-25T10:49:02 < Ultrasauce> reading a datasheet is hard ok
2019-07-25T10:49:19 < dongs> nobody at rageberry foundation reads
2019-07-25T10:49:22 < dongs> they are too busy counting jewgold
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2019-07-25T12:21:15 < jadew> just had a convo with google support, their terms are fucking stupid
2019-07-25T12:22:15 < salcedo> its terms, you mean.
2019-07-25T12:22:22 < jadew> I tried to put an ad on their platform and got disabled because of trademarks and when I tried to explain that's both legal and in agreement with their terms they said "no" but didn't give an explanation
2019-07-25T12:22:31 < salcedo> i know it sounded like a real person, but it wasn't.
2019-07-25T12:22:38 < jadew> heh
2019-07-25T12:23:47 < qyx> you shall not ask google
2019-07-25T12:23:58 < jadew> I asked to send a bug report, but by her tone, I bet she'll say garbage that isn't true in there
2019-07-25T12:24:14 < salcedo> "subject jadew attempt advertise results of much time hard work. potential upward mobility detected. denied."
2019-07-25T12:24:36 < jadew> yeah, it felt like talking to a brick wall
2019-07-25T12:24:49 < jadew> I was like... but let's read your own terms, for the rule that you say I broke
2019-07-25T12:25:01 < jadew> and she was like "I know the terms, no need to go through them"...
2019-07-25T12:25:07 < jadew> ffs...
2019-07-25T12:25:07 < qyx> don't they have AI on the first line support?
2019-07-25T12:25:21 < jadew> qyx, if it was AI it was very convincing
2019-07-25T12:25:26 < salcedo> it was AI.
2019-07-25T12:25:28 < jadew> it was a real person
2019-07-25T12:25:46 < jadew> but I don't think she understood what I explained
2019-07-25T12:25:54 < salcedo> if it was a real person, then it was completely AI controlled.
2019-07-25T12:25:55 < jadew> or if she did, she refused to agree to it
2019-07-25T12:26:07 < salcedo> "she"
2019-07-25T12:26:11 < jadew> basically I told her what the law says, and that their terms basically specify the same thing
2019-07-25T12:26:15 < salcedo> there are no genders at google. only robots.
2019-07-25T12:26:17 < jadew> and her answer was "no"
2019-07-25T12:27:30 < jpa-> i think it could be easier to persuade an AI than first-line tech support with their job on the line if they don't follow the script
2019-07-25T12:28:12 < salcedo> didn't think of it like that. it is possible.
2019-07-25T12:30:58 < jpa-> i wouldn't be surprised if it goes like "Customer reports problem with automatic blocking: Check computer, do they have existing business of atleast $10k/month? No? Then it's more trouble than it is worth to check further, just refuse."
2019-07-25T12:31:26 < jadew> jpa-, probably
2019-07-25T12:31:40 < salcedo> $10k/month of google revenue, not their revenue.
2019-07-25T12:31:59 < jpa-> yeah of course, $10k with google
2019-07-25T12:32:11 < salcedo> which probably means moar like at least 10's of millions of revenue.
2019-07-25T12:32:44 < jadew> salcedo, I'm an advertiser, google takes all the money I pay them
2019-07-25T12:32:49 < jadew> so 10k is 10k for them
2019-07-25T12:33:12 < jadew> I just started yesterday tho, so I've spent less than $10
2019-07-25T12:33:38 < salcedo> does not compute
2019-07-25T12:35:21 < jadew> Haohmaru, nah, it wasn't an AI
2019-07-25T12:35:27 < jadew> she spoke romanian
2019-07-25T12:35:58 < jadew> but with a fake "fresh" attitude and an unwillingness to help readable between the lines
2019-07-25T12:36:05 < jadew> it is
2019-07-25T12:36:45 < salcedo> google AI has googlebytes of recorded voice and can sound extremely convincing.
2019-07-25T12:37:15 < jadew> nah, it wasn't AI
2019-07-25T12:37:23 < salcedo> you're in denial.
2019-07-25T12:37:25 < jadew> if it was, we're in big shit
2019-07-25T12:37:27 < salcedo> we understand.
2019-07-25T12:38:14 < salcedo> pockets you say?
2019-07-25T12:38:36 < salcedo> any time i look around, they are holding the black rectangles up to their faces, completely steered by it.
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2019-07-25T12:39:19 < salcedo> that is the plan
2019-07-25T12:41:02 < salcedo> we are rapidly approaching global food scarcity. only the most docile and obedient tax payers with suitable DNA will get to eat. the rest will be steered by AI to immediate deaths.
2019-07-25T12:43:11 < salcedo> there will be a very small faction of "luddites" that will need to be eliminated as well. their deaths will go unnoticed - thanks to augmented reality.
2019-07-25T12:45:48 < salcedo> the eclipse in 2017
2019-07-25T12:46:04 < salcedo> got in a huge fight with my family
2019-07-25T12:47:33 < salcedo> the msm kept saying after the eclips the freeways would be traffic jammed for 100's of miles.
2019-07-25T12:48:11 < salcedo> main stream media
2019-07-25T12:48:37 < salcedo> there were only certain parts of the country where people could see a once in a lifetime eclipse
2019-07-25T12:49:16 < salcedo> after the eclipse, people would all start to leave. driving 100's of miles back home.
2019-07-25T12:50:33 < salcedo> my thought process was: 99% are going to be following the AI. (google maps)
2019-07-25T12:51:57 < salcedo> also, being far from home, and no longer having any navigatio skills, they would be too afraid to drive off of whatever path google tells them to.
2019-07-25T12:52:18 < benishor> hi, is there a way to get cpu usage for a stm32f7?
2019-07-25T12:52:40 < benishor> I'd like to know just how much more I can spend 
2019-07-25T12:53:57 < srk> benishor: you can use SWO to obtain profiling data
2019-07-25T12:54:40  * benishor starts googling
2019-07-25T12:54:46 < srk> benishor: https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum#using-orbtop
2019-07-25T12:55:26 < benishor> of course it is
2019-07-25T12:55:54 < benishor> it's like interpreting the load on a linux box, you never understand what those figures stand for
2019-07-25T12:56:16 < benishor> on windows you got those nice percentage figures which make you feel confident about knowing what's happening
2019-07-25T12:56:22 < benishor> except you don't
2019-07-25T12:56:44 < salcedo> whoa
2019-07-25T12:56:52 < salcedo> "orbtrace: The fpga configuration bitstream maker to support parallel trace operation" what does this mean?
2019-07-25T12:57:39 < benishor> srk: is that a profiler that does sampling?
2019-07-25T12:57:53 < benishor> how useful have you found it in practice?
2019-07-25T13:03:54 < srk> benishor: well it uses ITM or ETM peripheral of STM32 to sample program counter
2019-07-25T13:04:33 < benishor> meanwhile I advanced with my sdr sw https://youtu.be/_jIHs5JlvOg
2019-07-25T13:05:10 < srk> data is transfered via SWO pin, I've only tried with CP2102 and it wasn't working 
2019-07-25T13:05:32 < srk> pretty cool
2019-07-25T13:08:46 < Steffanx> Cool indeed.
2019-07-25T13:09:08 < Steffanx> Are those horizontal lines really blinking like that benishor  ?
2019-07-25T13:13:07 < benishor> there's more stuff I didn't expose to the UI yet, such as sideband selection and filter selection
2019-07-25T13:13:17 < benishor> Steffanx: yup. not intentional, those are due to my lack of stm32 knowledge
2019-07-25T13:14:10 < benishor> I tried to do double buffering when drawing stuff but it looks like it doesn't mix well with threading
2019-07-25T13:14:29 < benishor> not to mention I also had to disable dcache in order to get rid of some terrible tearing
2019-07-25T13:14:39 < benishor> it's frustrating not to know the underlying platform
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2019-07-25T13:28:47 < jadew> I'm playing with my RTL-SDR that just arrived
2019-07-25T13:28:53 < jadew> much better than the hackrf
2019-07-25T13:29:35 < jadew> made an antenna for 433 MHz and I thought it was the antenna's fault
2019-07-25T13:32:18 < benishor> too silent background?
2019-07-25T13:32:39 < benishor> probably different gain distribution
2019-07-25T13:33:01 < benishor> I'm just trying to make my own HF station from end to end the way I'd like it to be
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2019-07-25T13:33:06 < benishor> both hardware and software
2019-07-25T13:34:21 < jadew> got called back, apparently I was complying with their terms, but there are countries where those terms cannot be applied
2019-07-25T13:34:35 < jadew> so my ad is partially restricted
2019-07-25T13:35:43 < jadew> benishor, if you don't succeed, I can sell you my HF radio :P
2019-07-25T13:37:22 < benishor> jadew: thanks, but I already have a ft-100 gathering dust and two SmallWonderLabs DSW-2 transceivers which I use when operating portable
2019-07-25T13:37:26 < benishor> :)
2019-07-25T13:37:29 < jadew> I have one too
2019-07-25T13:37:36 < jadew> (a ft-100)
2019-07-25T13:37:40 < benishor> what HF radio do you have?
2019-07-25T13:37:51 < jadew> an ICOM IC-756 PRO
2019-07-25T13:38:00 < benishor> that's a nice piece of equipment
2019-07-25T13:38:21 < jadew> it's cool, but I never used it
2019-07-25T13:38:43 < jadew> got it broken, repaired it, listened to it for a bit, transmitted into a load (because I don't have a license) and that's about it
2019-07-25T13:39:07 < dongs> when you have SDR, having an expensive and big piece of shit like that seems pointless
2019-07-25T13:39:14 < dongs> when you can do literalyl same shit (and more) with say limesdr
2019-07-25T13:39:45 < jadew> dongs, limesdr doesn't put out 100 W
2019-07-25T13:40:41 < jadew> but yeah, SDRs are much nicer to listen with
2019-07-25T13:42:04 < benishor> time to get a license
2019-07-25T13:42:51 < benishor> not entirely pointless, I think you get get better dynamic range from big piece of shit like those than with a sdr
2019-07-25T13:42:51 < jadew> benishor, I wanted to, but I listened to the 80-meter band for a while and it was boring
2019-07-25T13:43:01 < benishor> jadew: do what I do, go for CW
2019-07-25T13:43:10 < benishor> it's pretty satisfying
2019-07-25T13:43:35 < benishor> that'll make you feel 1337
2019-07-25T13:43:40 < jadew> yeah, the difference is they have better frontends and better filtering
2019-07-25T13:43:49 < jadew> and that pays off if you want to listen to really weak signals
2019-07-25T13:44:27 < jadew> benishor, sure, but I can't say I find that too interesting either, maybe if my wife got into it too, then it would be useful
2019-07-25T13:44:55 < jadew> we could have conversations about people at the table, without anyone knowing
2019-07-25T13:45:31 < jadew> but other than that, I imagine the CW conversations are the same as the regular ones
2019-07-25T13:46:07 < jadew> QSL QSL
2019-07-25T13:47:21 < jadew> if it was like IRC, I'd be all over that
2019-07-25T13:50:20 < benishor> well, for me it's all about the whole experience
2019-07-25T13:50:31 < jadew> man... the difference between RTL-SDR and HackRF is huge
2019-07-25T13:50:40 < benishor> building stuff, getting out on air, contacting someone at the other end of earth without a wired connection
2019-07-25T13:51:02 < jadew> benishor, yeah, I get it
2019-07-25T13:52:22 < benishor> there's also EME stuff, meteor scatter, satelites, aprs, etc 
2019-07-25T13:52:28 < benishor> a whole range of different things to try
2019-07-25T13:52:40 < benishor> to each his own
2019-07-25T13:53:36 < jadew> I like the technical aspect a lot more than the usage
2019-07-25T13:54:42 < benishor> same here
2019-07-25T13:58:27 < jadew> apparently this sdr can also do HF
2019-07-25T13:58:32 < jadew> I have to check the user guide
2019-07-25T13:58:56 < jadew> dongs, you should get one of these, since you were complaining about the sensitivity
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2019-07-25T14:04:49 < jadew> it sucks for HF
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2019-07-25T14:14:47 < dongs> which one?
2019-07-25T14:15:00 < dongs> what the shit you talkin about
2019-07-25T14:15:10 < dongs> 'rtl-sdr' encompasses100s of chink piece of shit thingies
2019-07-25T14:17:25 < jadew> dongs, rtl-sdr v3
2019-07-25T14:17:29 < jadew> from rtl-sdr.com
2019-07-25T14:18:35 < dongs> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0129EBDS2/ you mean this? yeah i have ~similar chink shit.
2019-07-25T14:18:45 < dongs> for sure its better than unamplified pluto
2019-07-25T14:18:46 < dongs> lolz
2019-07-25T14:18:52 < jadew> dongs, yeah, that one
2019-07-25T14:19:10 < dongs> but i also have like 300 of those RTL2832U bare chips
2019-07-25T14:20:36 < jadew> clone that and sell it
2019-07-25T14:20:41 < jadew> they sold thousands of units
2019-07-25T14:21:03 < Rajko> isnt that a basic design not even 4 layer just put into an enclosure
2019-07-25T14:21:23 < jadew> oh, that picture reminds me I need to measure something
2019-07-25T14:21:33 < jadew> Rajko, you're saying "not even 4 layers" like it's a bad thing :)
2019-07-25T14:21:53 < Rajko> its radio shit it should be 4 to keep impedances
2019-07-25T14:22:05 < jadew> that's not true
2019-07-25T14:22:22 < jadew> but since you brought it up, yeah, that PCB doesn't seem to take that into account
2019-07-25T14:23:05 < Rajko> also perf depends most on what tuner is on there doesnt it
2019-07-25T14:23:53 < jadew> I guess it depends on a number of things, they probably put it together with whatever worked best
2019-07-25T14:24:16 < jadew> I know there are versions with at least two different tuners
2019-07-25T14:24:30 < Rajko> theres that first gen rare tuner that can reach some frequencies the others cant
2019-07-25T14:24:39 < Rajko> but the 3rd version of the tuner gives cleanest signal
2019-07-25T14:24:40 < jadew> right
2019-07-25T14:25:30 < Cracki> routers already do that
2019-07-25T14:25:31 < jadew> Haohmaru, if the number of monkeys is infinite, then the amount of time is the exact amount of time needed to route it once
2019-07-25T14:26:00 < Rajko> and what time is that
2019-07-25T14:26:05 < Rajko> maybe that one that gets it right is really slow
2019-07-25T14:26:10 < jadew> I don't know how fast monkeys route
2019-07-25T14:26:26 < jadew> lol
2019-07-25T14:26:50 < dongs> i actually was going to use R820T in one of my devices then gave up cuz its unsupported/unknown chink shit
2019-07-25T14:26:54 < dongs> and ended up using MXL603
2019-07-25T14:30:38 < jadew> you made some TV receiver?
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2019-07-25T15:46:00 < dongs> jadew: yeah
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2019-07-25T16:43:48 < ville> howdy. recently bought an stm32 nucleo-32 development board with stm32l432kc mcu and trying to get some understanding what software components do i need for development on a linux machine? any good blog posts for starting out?
2019-07-25T16:45:42 < effractur> ville: it mostly depends on your editor preferences
2019-07-25T16:47:04 < effractur> ville: in general a gcc arm compiler, stlink and for example Libopencm3 
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2019-07-25T16:50:15 < ville> so perhaps arm-none-eabi-gcc for the compiler? looks like stlink and libopencm3 are packaged as well on arch
2019-07-25T16:50:27 < effractur> yea
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2019-07-25T17:02:29 < srk> ville: blackmagic + gdb is better
2019-07-25T17:08:22 < jpa-> sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't; i seem to have hit much more bugs in blackmagic than in openocd
2019-07-25T17:08:28 < jpa-> but could be just bad luck
2019-07-25T17:10:48 < PaulFertser> srk: you're comparing blackmagic to texane or to openocd?
2019-07-25T17:14:02 < mawk> yes you found all the components ville 
2019-07-25T17:14:14 < mawk> openocd is useful too
2019-07-25T17:14:45 < PaulFertser> If you like IDEs ville you might want to try "GNU MCU Eclipse" or QtCreator.
2019-07-25T17:15:01 < PaulFertser> ville: and btw, it's GNU/Linux.
2019-07-25T17:15:33 < Cracki> gnu PLUS linux pls
2019-07-25T17:16:37 < mawk> or gnu × linux, so that they each distribute their features on each other and it's a wonderful metaphor
2019-07-25T17:18:55 < PaulFertser> Nice!
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2019-07-25T17:22:21 < Cracki> advisor needs to be told to run "make clean" after editing the makefile. doesn't try things on his own. time to end his misery?
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2019-07-25T17:25:58 < srk> PaulFertser: never heard of texane, I just flash all the f103 stlinks with blackmagic and use that
2019-07-25T17:27:10 < srk> didn't manage to hit any bugs with it, recently I've found out there's even semihosting ipc support which is cool
2019-07-25T17:30:06 < mawk> texane is st-flash/st-util tools
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2019-07-25T17:49:35 < jadew> Problem: A customer gives you some advice, which is ok, but he's wrong in his reasoning regarding how something works.
2019-07-25T17:50:35 < jadew> Q: Do you explain to him that something else is at play there, and risk stomping on his ego, or do you say nothing, and risk being perceived as not knowing what you're doing?
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2019-07-25T17:52:34 < PaulFertser> jadew: is there a way to minimise ego-related risks (by discussing it in a private discussion in a friendly "I think there might be something else in play here" way)?
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2019-07-25T17:54:14 < BrainDamage> if the person appears reasonable and you can argument your motivation sufficiently, it should be ok
2019-07-25T17:54:22 < jadew> you mean pretend you don't have a clue but that you have a hunch there may be more?
2019-07-25T17:54:39 < BrainDamage> try to work with him on the problem
2019-07-25T17:55:10 < BrainDamage> ask him to step through his motivation, and put in evidence the problem
2019-07-25T17:55:24 < BrainDamage> since you'll have worked on it together, he shouldn't feel his ego being hurt
2019-07-25T17:55:28 < PaulFertser> jadew: not necessarily, I mean just put it in a way that doesn't make you sound like a prophet.
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2019-07-25T17:56:35 < PaulFertser> Probably you can first note that you agree with his advice and you're thankful for it and will follow it. And then present your "additional" reasoning.
2019-07-25T17:57:28 < jadew> yeah, that's how I'm trying to phrase my response
2019-07-25T17:59:07 < PaulFertser> Most people should be OK with receiving it that way AFAICT. Unless they're actually hysteric in general or hostile to you in particular.
2019-07-25T17:59:28 < jadew> it's just that he strongly believes something
2019-07-25T18:00:21 < jadew> it's an interesting situation, I like it
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2019-07-25T18:00:56 < jadew> normally you don't have to worry about pissing people off
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2019-07-25T18:10:03 < PaulFertser> My boss at work used to call me and start the conversation with "- So you're fucking lying to me again!" (without saying "hello" even). But when I was able to prove my point he was fine with it.
2019-07-25T18:10:37 < PaulFertser> ("Опять ты меня наёбываешь!" which is considered obscene and offensive in russian)
2019-07-25T18:11:23 < PaulFertser> He wasn't afraid to piss me off :) We're arguing and sometimes shouting at each other all the time.
2019-07-25T18:12:07 < jadew> yeah, there's more room for that at the work place
2019-07-25T18:12:46 < jadew> also, it's more acceptable if you're defending yourself
2019-07-25T18:12:54 < PaulFertser> I really miss him. He passed away when he was just 60...
2019-07-25T18:13:16 < jadew> if you're just perceived as "observing" something wrong and correcting it, it's a bit worse
2019-07-25T18:14:24 < jadew> there's a book written on this topic
2019-07-25T18:14:32 < sync> just one?
2019-07-25T18:14:35 < jadew> the bottom line is that people don't like to be criticized
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2019-07-25T18:37:27 < mawk> in this situation I usually make the full demonstration with plenty details jadew 
2019-07-25T18:37:38 < mawk> if you sound interested enough in the problem itself the guy won't take it personally
2019-07-25T18:37:44 < mawk> he will just view you as passionate about the topic
2019-07-25T18:37:48 < mawk> if indeed you are
2019-07-25T18:38:38 < Cracki> layman advice? I sometimes deflect that with "yeah I used to do it like that too, until that one time where it didn't work because of [thing the layman is unaware of]"
2019-07-25T18:41:09 < Cracki> my first instinct is to respond immediately. I learned it's better to accept the suggestion, then let it sink in for a day or so, and see what you can make out of it.
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2019-07-25T18:42:05 < Cracki> sometimes they don't say stuff to be helpful, but because they're curious and want to hear you work the problem
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2019-07-25T18:55:54 < jadew> I think sometimes is better to just not answer
2019-07-25T18:56:25 < jadew> kind of like big companies do when shit hits the fan
2019-07-25T18:56:34 < jadew> they lay low until everyone chills out
2019-07-25T18:56:38 < Cracki> curiously, exactly that's what most normies do
2019-07-25T18:56:58 < Cracki> somehow they learn this and weirdos like me don't
2019-07-25T18:57:04 < jadew> heh
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2019-07-25T19:21:17 < Laurenceb> Boris's Johnson
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2019-07-25T19:28:06 < Cracki> has he sworn fealty to a foreign nation yet?
2019-07-25T19:29:17 < specing> his name is Boris ffs, its a russian name
2019-07-25T19:30:57 < englishman> I have this same kind of situation jadew
2019-07-25T19:31:09 < englishman> but I am waiting for the reveal
2019-07-25T19:31:15 < englishman> to maximize damage
2019-07-25T19:31:27 < englishman> because this guy is a huge piece of shit and is dragging everyone down
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2019-07-25T19:38:38 < Cracki> don't disrespect russians. they only got a bad rep because muricans couldn't say who _really_ meddled in their elections.
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2019-07-25T20:09:31 < jadew> englishman, heh
2019-07-25T20:09:46 < jadew> he's not a customer then?
2019-07-25T20:09:59 < englishman> no
2019-07-25T20:10:02 < englishman> but
2019-07-25T20:10:08 < englishman> you can fire customers too
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2019-07-25T20:54:24 < salcedo> Cracki: it's not that muricans won't say who _really_ meddled in their elections. it's that they have not been programmed to know.
2019-07-25T20:54:58 < Cracki> >programming humans
2019-07-25T20:55:06 < Cracki> you might like the tv series "Travelers"
2019-07-25T20:59:46 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boBK7IQ@c-98-247-192-179.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
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2019-07-25T21:06:56 < Laurenceb> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/24/what-robert-mueller-pickle-rick-have-common/
2019-07-25T21:12:02 < Laurenceb> https://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/health/women-warned-not-put-ice-18773113
2019-07-25T21:19:30 < Mangy_Dog> what the fuck?
2019-07-25T21:20:34 < Cracki> how do you think ER staff is earning money
2019-07-25T21:21:37 < Cracki> look up vodka-drenched gummy bears/tampons
2019-07-25T21:22:36 < Cracki> if they only shove it in the front hole, it's not as bad
2019-07-25T21:23:15 < bitmask> I wanna put a vodka tampon up my ass
2019-07-25T21:24:12 < Cracki> [motivational phrase]
2019-07-25T21:24:30 < bitmask> Ive plugged drugs before :P
2019-07-25T21:24:40 < Cracki> srsly bad idea, that's coming close to mainlining it
2019-07-25T21:25:34 < bitmask> you skip the first round in your liver, doesn't that save your liver? :P
2019-07-25T21:26:08 < Laurenceb>  ##stm32 activities
2019-07-25T21:26:41 < bitmask> goes straight into your blood instead, probably lasts a lot longer
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2019-07-25T21:28:23 < mawk> it's like IM without the needle
2019-07-25T21:28:26 < mawk> people should do it more often
2019-07-25T21:28:45 < mawk> unless they're refrained homosexual
2019-07-25T21:29:05 < Laurenceb> https://junkee.com/natalie-portman-thor-pissbabies/214751
2019-07-25T21:29:10 < antto> <jesus_DAFUQ_IS_GOING_ON_HERE.jpg>
2019-07-25T21:29:11 < Laurenceb> >pissbabies >pooping
2019-07-25T21:29:24 < antto> why am i even here
2019-07-25T21:29:33 < mawk> hi antto 
2019-07-25T21:29:34 < antto> did i trip and fell into this pit
2019-07-25T21:29:44 < antto> did the wind push me into here
2019-07-25T21:29:59 < antto> did a die and is this hell
2019-07-25T21:30:10 < bitmask> :)
2019-07-25T21:30:26 < bitmask> coating everything in epoxy was a bad idea and a waste of time/money
2019-07-25T21:31:15 < mawk> but it looks nice
2019-07-25T21:31:57 < Cracki> "screw your optics I'm going in!" says the reverse engineer to your epoxy-filled enclosure
2019-07-25T21:32:20 < mawk> lol
2019-07-25T21:34:06 < Cracki> I love movie quotes
2019-07-25T21:34:31 < Cracki> those writers come up with the most hilarious shit
2019-07-25T21:34:43 < Cracki> reality just can't compete
2019-07-25T21:38:36 < bitmask> how are those cheap spot welder kits on aliexpress? do they work?
2019-07-25T21:39:08 < ds2> people claim the one at harborfreight work
2019-07-25T21:39:31 < mawk> your microwave transformer didn't work bitmask ?
2019-07-25T21:39:59 < bitmask> the kits use a microwave transformer, the kit just adds pulse timing to it
2019-07-25T21:40:07 < mawk> ah
2019-07-25T21:40:14 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32808302953.html
2019-07-25T21:40:19 < bitmask> just as an example something like that
2019-07-25T21:43:04 < BrainDamage> that giant thing is probably a scr
2019-07-25T21:43:09 < bitmask> yup
2019-07-25T21:43:47 < BrainDamage> they just chop the 50Hz with the scr 
2019-07-25T21:44:01 < BrainDamage> once it's activated, it continues to conduct until the current crosses 0
2019-07-25T21:44:27 < BrainDamage> there's 2 modes of operation, phase chopping and bang bang
2019-07-25T21:44:42 < BrainDamage> in one you let the thing run for entire cycles and then you turn it off
2019-07-25T21:45:01 < BrainDamage> in the other you sync to the wave, and turn it on at a precise moment every time
2019-07-25T21:45:05 < BrainDamage> doing some sort of pwm
2019-07-25T21:46:35 < mawk> bang bang
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2019-07-25T21:51:38 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32908433933.html
2019-07-25T21:51:45 < bitmask> nice enclosure for it
2019-07-25T21:55:32 < mawk> expensive
2019-07-25T21:56:41 < bitmask> oh crap, I didnt see the shipping
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2019-07-25T22:01:19 < Cracki> i see ~15-20 bucks shipping. do you see lots more?
2019-07-25T22:02:13 < bitmask> no but $40 for it shipped is a bit much
2019-07-25T22:02:29 < bitmask> 47 acutally
2019-07-25T22:02:30 < Cracki> srsly, local trade school, post the design, see who goes for the easy money
2019-07-25T22:02:36 < Cracki> yeah
2019-07-25T22:03:37 < Laurenceb> oi m8, remember the rothercaust, over 6000 hymens prematurely ruptured
2019-07-25T22:04:39 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@chl26-1-88-183-106-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-25T22:05:14 < bitmask> ohh this one looks real nice compared to the others: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32882014234.html
2019-07-25T22:05:21 < Laurenceb> LE EBIN BORIS REALLY WINDS UP THOSE LEFTIES LUV DIS SALT ME
2019-07-25T22:09:58 < bitmask> oh that one has a shitty screen, I thought it was different
2019-07-25T22:15:31 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@chl26-1-88-183-106-15.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-07-25T22:17:47 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@142.165.144.124] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-25T22:18:03 < Cracki> lol
2019-07-25T22:26:22 < salcedo> dongs: you make hardware, and you're a no-bullshit kind of [insert preferred pronoun because it's 2019]
2019-07-25T22:27:02 < salcedo> dongs: i'm going to paste a schematic and, when you have a free moment, i would be grateful for your no-bullshit roast of it.
2019-07-25T22:29:59 < salcedo> https://salcedo.tech/LoRaTab.pdf
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2019-07-25T22:37:00 < mawk> no cap on reset line
2019-07-25T22:37:55 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-07-25T22:38:00 < Laurenceb> I'll reset ur line
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2019-07-25T22:39:15 < salcedo> mawk: o rite. for dat pulse?
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2019-07-25T22:41:13 < salcedo> alse the reference design has a 10K resistor on the boot line
2019-07-25T22:42:20 < mawk> for several reasons I guess, like spurious resets
2019-07-25T22:50:39 < salcedo> mawk: cool. refresh pdf.
2019-07-25T22:53:02 < qyx> your lorathing is kind of simple
2019-07-25T22:54:20 < fenugrec> salcedo, no diode from out to in accross your 3v LDO ?
2019-07-25T22:54:53 < fenugrec> no protection on USB (beads / TVS), not necessarily a problem
2019-07-25T22:55:07 < qyx> diode on the ldo?
2019-07-25T22:55:39 < qyx> why are you expecting it to be there?
2019-07-25T22:56:03 < fenugrec> dunno if newer LDOs still need that ? on poweroff the output caps will discharge through the LDO pass transistor
2019-07-25T22:56:59 < qyx> it depends, but if the ldo is specified for the given output capacitance, I would expect the diode to be redundant
2019-07-25T22:57:10 < fenugrec> i.e. https://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/powerhouse/archive/2018/07/25/ldo-basics-preventing-reverse-current-in-ldos
2019-07-25T22:57:16 < fenugrec> possibly yes. just pointing it out
2019-07-25T22:57:35 < qyx> but speaking of capcitance
2019-07-25T22:57:49 < qyx> salcedo: there is no capacitance on the microsd slot
2019-07-25T22:58:08 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@90.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2019-07-25T22:58:09 < qyx> there should be a ferrite bead/cap or at least a cap
2019-07-25T22:58:20 < qyx> in the order of 10u or more
2019-07-25T22:59:13 < qyx> also decoupling caps, there should be one for each vdd/vss pair
2019-07-25T22:59:16 < qyx> I see only one
2019-07-25T23:02:30 < Thorn> why is Vbus connected to nrst?
2019-07-25T23:03:10 < qyx> is it?
2019-07-25T23:03:40 < Thorn> via PWR_FLAG
2019-07-25T23:03:46 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@142.165.144.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2019-07-25T23:03:58 < Thorn> also looks like the battery is being charged but not discharged
2019-07-25T23:04:00 < qyx> pwr_flag is a special symbol to mark a power net
2019-07-25T23:04:12 < qyx> it is not the same net
2019-07-25T23:04:36 < qyx> but idk why is it on the gnd
2019-07-25T23:05:00 < qyx> also on the vbus line if it is connected to the +5V net
2019-07-25T23:05:33 < Thorn> oh ok then 5V is shorted to gnd lol
2019-07-25T23:10:07 < Thorn> btw AN4879 says that you must not apply > 4V to a pin if the stm32 is unpowered so a divider is required if you want to sense Vbus with a pin even if it's 5V tolerant
2019-07-25T23:10:40 < qyx> wat
2019-07-25T23:10:50 < qyx> the wbus is not connected to any stm32 pin
2019-07-25T23:11:21 < qyx> it is only connected to +5V
2019-07-25T23:11:25 < qyx> as far as I see
2019-07-25T23:11:29 < Thorn> in this circuit it is not
2019-07-25T23:11:51 < Thorn> but as a general rule
2019-07-25T23:12:20 < qyx> oh
2019-07-25T23:12:31 < Thorn> section 2.6 https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00296349.pdf
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2019-07-25T23:40:57 < qyx> also, speaking of st
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2019-07-25T23:41:50 < qyx> is the stm32mp1 available as a SoM?
2019-07-25T23:44:17 < Steffanx> Google says yes
2019-07-25T23:44:24 < Thorn> https://somlabs.com/product/visionsom-stm32mp1/
2019-07-25T23:44:49 < Steffanx> Thorn googled too lol
2019-07-25T23:45:24 < qyx> oh, google
2019-07-25T23:45:27 < qyx> I forgot
2019-07-25T23:45:28 < Thorn> iirc I read an article about it a couple weeks ago but can't find it
2019-07-25T23:47:08 < mawk> is it out yet ?
2019-07-25T23:47:13 < mawk> the stm32mp1
2019-07-25T23:47:27 < mawk> eg past the preview stage
--- Day changed Fri Jul 26 2019
2019-07-26T00:00:55 < Cracki> mouser says it's in stock
2019-07-26T00:01:16 < srk> even g4s
2019-07-26T00:01:17 < Cracki> dev boards at least, so at worst you get to fry them off
2019-07-26T00:01:29 < Cracki> oh, even plain chips
2019-07-26T00:01:32 < Cracki> g4?
2019-07-26T00:01:39 < Cracki> I heard of g0
2019-07-26T00:02:27 < Cracki> mouser even has g4s in stock
2019-07-26T00:02:28 < srk> theres one G4 with HRTIM v2 and bunch of nice stuff
2019-07-26T00:02:37 < srk> yep, since like few weeks ago
2019-07-26T00:02:47 < srk> unlike F334 it has enough flash
2019-07-26T00:02:52 < Cracki> heh
2019-07-26T00:02:52 < srk> and even dual banked flash
2019-07-26T00:03:49 < srk> reminds me of GForce gpus
2019-07-26T00:04:07 < Cracki> so... what's g4? is that like F3 with more crunch?
2019-07-26T00:04:16 < Cracki> it's getting crowded in st's lineup
2019-07-26T00:04:29 < Cracki> their overview isn't much of an overview https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32-mainstream-mcus.html
2019-07-26T00:05:18 < srk> man
2019-07-26T00:05:21 < srk> ~1400 devices
2019-07-26T00:05:40 < srk> tons of variants
2019-07-26T00:06:03 < srk> I have 74 SVD files 
2019-07-26T00:06:13 < Cracki> if there was a usable comparison function, or something that shows trees labeled by which properties distinguish them...
2019-07-26T00:06:22 < srk> I have one
2019-07-26T00:06:27 < srk> its called clustering :D
2019-07-26T00:06:37 < srk> you just need a good metric
2019-07-26T00:06:44 < srk> want to make a website with all the data
2019-07-26T00:07:13 < srk> hmm, that actually sounds good
2019-07-26T00:07:17 < Cracki> their parametric search needs a fix for the USB mess.
2019-07-26T00:07:20 < srk> as you can cluster with different metrics
2019-07-26T00:07:21 < srk> hm hm!
2019-07-26T00:07:31 < srk> even their svd files are messy
2019-07-26T00:07:37 < Cracki> last I checked, they gave me three types of usb filter/property
2019-07-26T00:08:09 < srk> it looks like they maintain a lots of stuff by hand
2019-07-26T00:08:17 < srk> which is quite unfortunate :(
2019-07-26T00:08:47 < Cracki> most useful piece of that whole page https://www.st.com/content/ccc/fragment/product_related/subclass_information/subclass_level_diagram/group0/32/81/d2/66/08/8e/4a/a8/stm32mainstream_sc2155.jpg/files/stm32mainstream_sc2155.jpg/_jcr_content/translations/en.stm32mainstream_sc2155.jpg
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2019-07-26T00:10:52 < salcedo> Thorn: PWR_FLAG is meaningless. it's only there (on gnd too) to keep DRC from complaining
2019-07-26T00:12:51 < salcedo> qyx: any ref about the microsd?
2019-07-26T00:14:08 < Thorn> T - 45 min, chance of abort due to weather is 50% https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlgrxVuP5jk
2019-07-26T00:17:19 < specing> Thorn: spacex?
2019-07-26T00:17:30 < Thorn> yes
2019-07-26T00:17:38 < specing> heavy?
2019-07-26T00:18:11 < Thorn> no
2019-07-26T00:19:29 < qyx> salcedo: check disco boards for example
2019-07-26T00:19:45 < qyx> or olimex or similar
2019-07-26T00:21:43 < salcedo> thanks i'm adding caps and a bead for vddthings per the ref design (an4467)
2019-07-26T00:22:07 < salcedo> though if i'm not really going to use the ADC, is it really necessary to put as much filtering on it?
2019-07-26T00:22:41 < salcedo> probably a good idea anyway
2019-07-26T00:24:38 < Thorn> I never put beads on avdd
2019-07-26T00:24:48 < mawk> it's used internally for brownouts salcedo no ?
2019-07-26T00:24:51 < mawk> something like this
2019-07-26T00:24:54 < Thorn> but caps you need for every power pin
2019-07-26T00:26:51 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Quit: Whop whop]
2019-07-26T00:27:40 < Thorn> does jlcpcb make plated slots?
2019-07-26T00:28:04 < rajkosto> if you mean slightly elongated holes like for usb ? yes
2019-07-26T00:28:22 < Thorn> good
2019-07-26T00:28:48 < rajkosto> the way i made sure for them not to ignore them
2019-07-26T00:29:03 < rajkosto> is to just draw rounded rectangles on the dimensions/outline layer
2019-07-26T00:29:18 < rajkosto> and not use "elongated holes" in the drills.txt
2019-07-26T00:30:04 < Thorn> do they ignore them otherwise?
2019-07-26T00:30:19 < rajkosto> they can
2019-07-26T00:30:33 < rajkosto> and you just get nothing there
2019-07-26T00:31:15 < rajkosto> https://www.reddit.com/r/PrintedCircuitBoard/comments/a7oggj/jlcpcb_plated_slotseagle_successes/ everyone uses the outline layer
2019-07-26T00:34:20 < Thorn> that sounds like an eagle problem
2019-07-26T00:34:24 < Thorn> >So if there are plated slot , please kindly to make it on the drilling layer and informed us on the remark .
2019-07-26T00:34:35 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-26T00:35:23 < Cracki> looking for an optical aid for some light electronics work. any reason not to buy the ~20-bucks things off aliexpress? shit lenses maybe with chromatic aberration? or do they do well?
2019-07-26T00:36:03 < Thorn> everything cheap that I tried was shit
2019-07-26T00:36:08 < Cracki> some headmount thing would be handy. I have a helping hand with puny glass already
2019-07-26T00:36:15 < Thorn> it's all plastic, not glass
2019-07-26T00:36:19 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@90.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-26T00:37:13 < Cracki> hm, what physical shop should I walk into for trying such stuff out? I'm double digit price is my pain threshold
2019-07-26T00:38:00 < Thorn> try jeweller's or (used) microsurgery headmount lenses
2019-07-26T00:38:04 < mawk> if you can somehow export your project to their own cad tool you can check if your holes were well understood I think
2019-07-26T00:38:15 < mawk> since its their own tool it must export to gerbers in the correct way
2019-07-26T00:38:37 < Thorn> houston we are go for muzak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlgrxVuP5jk
2019-07-26T00:39:13 < Cracki> it's new!
2019-07-26T00:39:44 < Cracki> used microsurgery gear... hm...
2019-07-26T00:40:04 < mawk> philatelia gear
2019-07-26T00:40:07 < mawk> like headmount stuff
2019-07-26T00:40:59 < Laurenceb> the demiurge!!
2019-07-26T00:41:38 < Cracki> maybe I should ask a dentist... but then they probably buy the expensive stuff
2019-07-26T00:43:06 < mawk> https://en.yvert.com/A-155294-jeweller-s-magnifier-x10.aspx
2019-07-26T00:43:11 < jadew> Cracki, which cheap things?
2019-07-26T00:43:12 < mawk> to clip on your glasses if I understood correctly
2019-07-26T00:43:40 < Cracki> sec
2019-07-26T00:43:57 < jadew> you mean the head mounting thing?
2019-07-26T00:44:02 -!- Mangy_Dog [~Mangy_Dog@94.11.204.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2019-07-26T00:44:12 < Cracki> I hate that aliex keeps needing me to sign in, that chrome's auto-signin is defeated, and that aliex requires me to solve the captcha
2019-07-26T00:44:14 < Cracki> yes
2019-07-26T00:44:30 < jadew> with the folding lenses?>
2019-07-26T00:44:31 < Cracki> there are some sub-20-bucks glasses-like things
2019-07-26T00:44:36 < Cracki> with and without folding lenses
2019-07-26T00:44:47 < jadew> I had something like that, but not from aliexpress
2019-07-26T00:44:49 < Cracki> there's a cheap looking one where you can have to lens panels at once, which do fold
2019-07-26T00:44:54 < jadew> however, I have no doubt they were from china
2019-07-26T00:45:03 < Laurenceb> spacex repeat coming up
2019-07-26T00:45:03 < jadew> they were surprisingly good
2019-07-26T00:45:05 < Cracki> and there's a common one with single-panel at once
2019-07-26T00:45:12 < Cracki> oh?
2019-07-26T00:45:40 < jadew> I got mine from a walk-in store, for about $10
2019-07-26T00:45:43 < Cracki> I'm ok with plastic lenses if they perform tolerably. mostly I want some decent working distance
2019-07-26T00:46:17 < jadew> I think mine were glass
2019-07-26T00:46:49 < Cracki> lol it's even cheaper now https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801335751.html
2019-07-26T00:46:56 < jadew> I wouldn't go with plastic, because it's a bitch to clean and it scratches
2019-07-26T00:47:30 < Thorn> >Put them in your excellon file, I dunno how you do that with eagle but it's always worked for me.
2019-07-26T00:47:40 < Cracki> the wat
2019-07-26T00:47:50 < rajkosto> altium etc automatically puts them in drills txt just fine
2019-07-26T00:47:51 < Thorn> stream live
2019-07-26T00:48:00 < rajkosto> if you just define hole size different on X than Y
2019-07-26T00:48:11 < rajkosto> doesnt jlcpcb allow you to upload pcbdoc directly
2019-07-26T00:48:49 < jadew> Cracki, mine was more like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32861611062.html
2019-07-26T00:48:52 < jadew> Thorn, link?
2019-07-26T00:48:59 < Cracki> !
2019-07-26T00:49:03 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlgrxVuP5jk
2019-07-26T00:49:08 < jadew> thanks
2019-07-26T00:49:28 < Thorn> that is most likely crap
2019-07-26T00:49:29 < Thorn> like really crap
2019-07-26T00:49:36 < Cracki> ;)
2019-07-26T00:49:48 < Cracki> I'm gonna watch an auction for some brand glasses
2019-07-26T00:49:52 < Thorn> everything about it, the lens, the lighting, the mount
2019-07-26T00:50:14 < jadew> mine had a similar mount and it was amazingly comfortable
2019-07-26T00:50:26 < jadew> I was really surprised at what they added
2019-07-26T00:50:36 < jadew> I'm not sure if it was that exact mount
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2019-07-26T00:50:56 < jadew> but the thing is I was able to completely remove them from my sight (lift the hole thing up) without taking them off
2019-07-26T00:51:01 < jadew> which was very handy
2019-07-26T00:51:18 < jadew> but the lens were more complex
2019-07-26T00:51:29 < jadew> they were folding and it doesn't look like they're folding on that one
2019-07-26T00:51:49 < jadew> I was sorry when I threw them away
2019-07-26T00:52:50 < jadew> I wouldn't pay more than $10, knowing I got all that for $10 many years ago
2019-07-26T00:53:07 < Cracki> heh
2019-07-26T00:54:27 < Cracki> too little money to waste a thought. I'ma click it. https://www.ebay.de/itm/Lupenbrille-Brillenlupe-Uhrmacher-Lupe-20X-Vergroserungsglas-Lupe-mit-LED-Licht/333262800354
2019-07-26T00:54:38 < Cracki> plastic but eh
2019-07-26T00:55:25 < jadew> they look cool
2019-07-26T00:55:31 < jadew> at the very least you can wear them to the park
2019-07-26T00:55:36 < Cracki> ;)
2019-07-26T00:55:57 < karlp> bitmask: that cloud rgb led thing what's the cloud thing made out of? is that mor e3d printing of yours?
2019-07-26T00:56:10 < karlp> (i think it's neat)
2019-07-26T00:57:38 < jadew> has any rocket crashed/exploded recently?
2019-07-26T00:59:28 < Thorn> the European one
2019-07-26T01:00:31 < karlp> Cracki: cutlistoptimizer is neat! cool
2019-07-26T01:00:48 < Thorn> cultistoptimizer
2019-07-26T01:02:03 < Cracki> what was that about a "hattrick" or something in the stream?
2019-07-26T01:02:13 < Cracki> flown thrice or something?
2019-07-26T01:02:46 < Cracki> camera is a mile away and still gets jostled by that tamed explosion
2019-07-26T01:02:48 < Thorn> The Dragon spacecraft that will support the CRS-18 mission previously supported the CRS-6 mission in April 2015 and the CRS-13 mission in December 2017. 
2019-07-26T01:02:55 < Cracki> :)
2019-07-26T01:04:36 < Cracki> I'm waiting for the point when they stop numbering the resupply missions and just give them datestamps
2019-07-26T01:08:26 < Cracki> .oO( bus stop schedule for Kennedy's 39A )
2019-07-26T01:10:16 < jadew> right now there's a programmer with his butt cheeks clenched
2019-07-26T01:10:38 < jadew> and release
2019-07-26T01:10:59 < Cracki> hahah they must go through chairs like socks
2019-07-26T01:11:18 < jadew> I bet they make small changes from mission to mission
2019-07-26T01:11:23 < Cracki> that did look a little wonky, I don't know why i get that impression
2019-07-26T01:14:13 < karlp> man, this salcedo politoco robot talk is exhausting
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2019-07-26T01:17:01 < karlp> benishor: I've used orbtop for profiling, works well, I use orbuculum for all my trace these days, has been the most flexible of the solutions i?v etried.
2019-07-26T01:17:28 < karlp> wish they had spent more time on developing the sw tools further instead of the wank they went into trying to build their fpga for etm capture, but hey, that's interesting in it's own way.
2019-07-26T01:18:09 < salcedo> karlp: yea i need to keep it in ##stm32-offtopic.
2019-07-26T01:18:50 < salcedo> qyx: if the sd card connector is _really_ close to the stm32, is that an issue?
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2019-07-26T01:30:34 < karlp> srk: if you're still excited by semihosting, just wait til you move to the real world of swo/itm 
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2019-07-26T01:33:06 < karlp> specing: boris the name is owned by russia now? nice one. good job. full marks
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2019-07-26T01:38:02 < karlp> salcedo: top marks for an LDO from sot23-5.ldos.dongs, but you picked like the worst of them :)
2019-07-26T01:38:18 < karlp> (however, as you picked one from tha tlist, you can replace with any of the others! yay!)
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2019-07-26T01:40:45 < karlp> salcedo: does the l0 not have the vdda/2 input for abttery monitoring?
2019-07-26T01:41:00 < karlp> (do you mean to only have the single 100nf cap for decoupling on the l0?)
2019-07-26T01:42:34 < karlp> (I'm pretty sure for full speed you need pullups/downs on some of the sd lines, but perhaps not in spi mode)
2019-07-26T01:46:12 < karlp> Thorn: yar, I read blah-cult-blah when I first saw the url too
2019-07-26T01:47:13 < karlp> annnnd I'm all caught up :) chatting may resume per normal schedules :)
2019-07-26T01:47:15 < salcedo> karlp: spi mode.
2019-07-26T01:47:37 < karlp> hav eyou already protod that?
2019-07-26T01:48:11 < salcedo> technically no. unless you count wires soldered to an sd->microsd adapter. it works.
2019-07-26T01:48:16 < Laurenceb> Boris is an FSB agent
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2019-07-26T01:57:09 < karlp> salcedo: do you need much perf from it?
2019-07-26T01:57:32 < salcedo> "perf" ?L
2019-07-26T02:02:36 < bitmask> karlp yea 3d printed it
2019-07-26T02:02:47 < karlp> looks neat, I didn't know you could print that big?
2019-07-26T02:02:58 < bitmask> i printed it in 2 pieces
2019-07-26T02:03:00 < bitmask> glued it together
2019-07-26T02:03:28 < bitmask> gonna cut out acrylic for the front and back tomorrow, and make it an infinity mirror
2019-07-26T02:04:35 < karlp> infiniti mirror just means it's got now frame and standing out from the wall? is there something else?
2019-07-26T02:04:58 < karlp> I only really know of infinity pools that have the edge a point and it flows over and down out of the sight line
2019-07-26T02:05:06 < karlp> salcedo: performance.
2019-07-26T02:05:10 < bitmask> no its when you have a mirror in the back and two way mirror in the front and leds inbetween.  the light reflects multiple times making it look like a tunnel going into the wall
2019-07-26T02:06:27  * karlp just found some youtube videos
2019-07-26T02:06:29 < karlp> neat!
2019-07-26T02:06:48 < salcedo> karlp: it's in spi mode. moderate performance to be expected.
2019-07-26T02:07:00 < salcedo> just simple file storage. small files.
2019-07-26T02:07:55 < bitmask> yea ive never seen one in person but liked what other people have made so I thought id try it, so the edge will glow like you saw in the pics, then infinity mirror on the inside with digits showing the temperature outside
2019-07-26T02:08:07 < bitmask> im gonna hang it above my 3d printed 7 segment clock :)
2019-07-26T02:10:42 < karlp> even the wifey thinks it looks neat, 
2019-07-26T02:10:51 < karlp> we're thinking of whether to put one on the ceiling
2019-07-26T02:11:32 < bitmask> ceiling and living room table are my favs
2019-07-26T02:12:21 < jadew> I just looked them up on youtube
2019-07-26T02:12:26 < jadew> they looks cool, yeah
2019-07-26T02:13:21 < bitmask> im not sure if you need to angle the led strip a tiny bit to play with the spacing between reflections, guess I'll have to play around with it when I get to that point
2019-07-26T02:13:33 < karlp> salcedo: just as long as you weren't trying to stream adc readings to it at some sort of speed.  there's a bunch of channel wisdom on how slow sdcards can be, you can have to deal with circa 50ms arbitrary delays while it's buffers drain for instance
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2019-07-26T02:17:56 < salcedo> karlp: yep. the end "product" will only need to use the sd card to store message contents that would be mostly less than 4 kilobytes
2019-07-26T02:18:22 < salcedo> no streaming
2019-07-26T02:22:12 < karlp> lolrence has done a lot of this for eample, if you run into specifics.
2019-07-26T02:26:36 < salcedo> regarding using the adc for battery monitoring. i need to check stm32l072 datasheet
2019-07-26T02:27:35 < mawk> using VBAT
2019-07-26T02:28:35 < salcedo> it does not have vbat pin
2019-07-26T02:29:00 < Cracki> vbat was for supply, not monitoring
2019-07-26T02:29:31 < salcedo> you're talking about vrefint channel in the adc?
2019-07-26T02:29:48 < Cracki> he might be
2019-07-26T02:30:06 < salcedo> but i'm regulating the voltage
2019-07-26T02:30:27 < Cracki> so, not the way
2019-07-26T02:30:29 < karlp> salcedo:nvm, l0 doesn't seem to have it.
2019-07-26T02:30:30 < salcedo> i put the divider in to get the battery voltage, not the regulated voltage
2019-07-26T02:30:45 < Cracki> did you already dismiss a voltage divider to get battery voltage into adc range?
2019-07-26T02:30:50 < Cracki> ah good
2019-07-26T02:30:52 < karlp> l4 and a few others have a way of using vbat/2 or /3 directly as the reference, so you don't need the external divider
2019-07-26T02:31:51 < karlp> though, you can probably (ab)use the lcd voltage measurement.
2019-07-26T02:31:59 < karlp> it seems prtty similar just a differen tname
2019-07-26T02:32:03 < salcedo> ok regarding the sd, i shouldn't need external pull-ups if i'm turning those on internally?
2019-07-26T02:32:21 < karlp> yeah, looks "same"
2019-07-26T02:32:41 < karlp> if you configure it as a vlcden on the channel, you can get it with /4, /3 or /2 without an external divider
2019-07-26T02:32:51 < karlp> possibly
2019-07-26T02:33:00 < karlp> divider will always work :)
2019-07-26T02:33:29 < salcedo> https://salcedo.tech/LoRaTab.pdf revisions :)
2019-07-26T02:35:46 < salcedo> still has the crap ldo
2019-07-26T02:37:19 < salcedo> also the symbol for the usb type-A is possibly misleading. the footprint is PCB traces (pcb plugs right into usb a)
2019-07-26T02:38:04 < mawk> your pdf doesn't work on chrome on linux
2019-07-26T02:38:06 < mawk> it's a virus I bet
2019-07-26T02:38:10 < mawk> I have to dl it to view it
2019-07-26T02:38:36 < karlp> who uses in browser pdfs anyway?
2019-07-26T02:38:44 < karlp> nasty, no ToC, no bookmmarks, shitty zoom
2019-07-26T02:38:55 < mawk> yeah but I can view it as soon as I click on the link
2019-07-26T02:40:27 < jadew> doesn't work on chrome on windows either
2019-07-26T02:40:47 < jadew> karlp, you get TOC in chrome
2019-07-26T02:41:18 < jadew> it's good for quickly looking over something you might not want to download
2019-07-26T02:41:36 < jadew> works in FF
2019-07-26T02:41:59 < jadew> did you choose to export it like that?
2019-07-26T02:42:01 < jadew> without colors?
2019-07-26T02:43:59 < salcedo> carelessly plotted from kicad
2019-07-26T02:44:07 < salcedo> don't even think i did any page setup yet.
2019-07-26T02:44:10 < karlp> heh, I thought tha too, I was like "what sort of pdf export is this?!"
2019-07-26T02:44:22 < karlp> my daughter sees a b&w photo and says, "is that from the olden days?"
2019-07-26T02:44:32 < jadew> lol karlp 
2019-07-26T02:44:54 < karlp> had a very "uhhh.............." moment when we took a photo of her in b&w and showed it to her
2019-07-26T02:45:04 < karlp> I should clarify, my older daughter
2019-07-26T02:45:15 < karlp> my other daughter will talk soon too
2019-07-26T02:45:38 < jadew> planning to teach them electronics?
2019-07-26T02:45:56 < mawk> should start early before it's too late
2019-07-26T02:46:05 < jadew> it's never too late
2019-07-26T02:46:12 < jadew> electronics is fun
2019-07-26T02:46:41 < mawk> yeah but then she will be reticent
2019-07-26T02:46:56 < mawk> I tried with my gf which is 35 years old and despite many many attempts she won't code or try to understand electronics
2019-07-26T02:46:58 < karlp> kinda sort of thought I already would have, was always sort of planning on using them as some excuses to do some touch stuff.
2019-07-26T02:47:07 < Laurenceb> kek he literally just reposts 4chan /r9k/  https://mobile.twitter.com/prisonplanet?lang=en
2019-07-26T02:47:26 < karlp> so far have just encouraged her to help me pull shit apart
2019-07-26T02:47:28 < karlp> start there.
2019-07-26T02:47:46 < jadew> karlp, right, kids love to take stuff apart
2019-07-26T02:48:20 < jadew> bought my son a screwdriver set - he loved it
2019-07-26T02:48:38 < jadew> mawk, you have to be attracted by it
2019-07-26T02:48:52 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-26T02:48:53 < jadew> if she has 0 interest for this, she might get it but she'd rather do something else
2019-07-26T02:49:00 < mawk> yeah she gets it
2019-07-26T02:49:18 < jadew> on the other hand, if you are interested in something, you're going to explore it even when you're 80
2019-07-26T02:49:25 < mawk> her father is a ham radio enthusiast and stuff, building speakers and kits
2019-07-26T02:49:31 < mawk> that may be why she doesn't want to try it lol
2019-07-26T02:49:49 < jadew> might be why she's with you ;)
2019-07-26T02:50:52 < jadew> wait... your g/f is 35?
2019-07-26T02:50:56 < jadew> how old are you?
2019-07-26T02:51:14 < jadew> I thought you're like... 20
2019-07-26T02:51:47 < mawk> yeah almost 23
2019-07-26T02:52:32 < jadew> haven't banged a 35 yo yet
2019-07-26T02:52:46 < salcedo> you will when you are 35 :)
2019-07-26T02:53:03 < jadew> you mean, I'll bang myself?
2019-07-26T02:53:05 < jadew> nice
2019-07-26T02:53:45 < jadew> I dated a chick that was 13 years older than me when I was young, so I get the appeal
2019-07-26T02:54:44 < salcedo> it's relative
2019-07-26T02:54:55 < salcedo> if you have the appeal in your 20's you'll still have it in your 30's.
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2019-07-26T02:55:43 < salcedo> i think i'm going to stick with this crap ldo for simplicity sake. it's horribly inefficient.
2019-07-26T02:56:09 < salcedo> this board is a stepping stone to another project anyway
2019-07-26T02:56:46 < salcedo> nahwait
2019-07-26T02:56:59 < jadew> also, this is a little secret that I've been keeping for a couple of months: I don't know how old I am
2019-07-26T02:57:16 < salcedo> if the final project is going to be better, this one should be better
2019-07-26T02:57:17 < mawk> lol
2019-07-26T02:57:32 < jadew> I'm either 34 or 35, but I haven't cared enough to do the math
2019-07-26T02:57:47 < salcedo> do you still have the appeal?
2019-07-26T02:57:54 < jadew> for older women?
2019-07-26T02:57:56 < salcedo> yea
2019-07-26T02:58:17 < jadew> I don't know, I like all women
2019-07-26T03:00:49 < Cracki> do you still know your birth year?
2019-07-26T03:00:59 < jadew> Cracki, yeah lol
2019-07-26T03:01:16 < Cracki> had your birthday yet this year?
2019-07-26T03:01:21 < jadew> yes
2019-07-26T03:01:39 < Cracki> then you're then-now years old
2019-07-26T03:01:50 < jadew> so it's negative?
2019-07-26T03:01:59 < Cracki> ... right, it's late
2019-07-26T03:02:01 < jadew> :)
2019-07-26T03:02:26 < Cracki> been calculating sleep/usleep/nanosleep times too much recently
2019-07-26T03:02:44 < jadew> I'm 34
2019-07-26T03:09:23 < karlp> jadew: yar, older kid loves changing batteries with me in the kids toys, get to use a screwdriver and shit, she's all up for it.
2019-07-26T03:09:55 < jadew> an analog meter is also a good starter
2019-07-26T03:10:12 < jadew> especially one of those that can verify batteries
2019-07-26T03:11:09 < jadew> also throw in a couple of wires (but not before instructing them about the mains outlet)
2019-07-26T03:11:10 < karlp> jadew: "23:58 <jadew> I don't know, I like all women" nice :) this is something a friend and I reached in uni :)
2019-07-26T03:11:44 < karlp> Cracki: usleep is deprecated, it's either sleep or nanosleep, get with the usb-c program :9
2019-07-26T03:12:09 < salcedo> my parents never instructed me about the mains outlet
2019-07-26T03:12:21 < karlp> jadew: hrm, not sure abotu the analog meter thingy, we dont' eve have analog clocks, not sure I see it as entirely useful or helpful.
2019-07-26T03:12:39 < karlp> if she understands the numbers, the gauge is the same, just "visual"
2019-07-26T03:12:45 < karlp> but... does that really matter per se?
2019-07-26T03:12:54 < jadew> karlp, they like the visual aspect, the fact that it moves
2019-07-26T03:13:07 < jadew> my son eventually asked me to make something that makes it move all the time
2019-07-26T03:13:09 < salcedo> karlp: https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm3671.pdf
2019-07-26T03:13:11  * karlp shrugs.
2019-07-26T03:13:22 < jadew> so I made him an oscillator he could control with a pot
2019-07-26T03:13:26 < karlp> that's kinda why I've not done more so far really,
2019-07-26T03:13:39 < karlp> she's still only 4. opening up things with the screwdriver is enough so far
2019-07-26T03:13:53 < jadew> that's true
2019-07-26T03:15:07 < karlp> salcedo: well, that's not an ldo, but sure, maybe?
2019-07-26T03:15:24 < karlp> the list we keep is a list of pin compatible sot23-5 ldos, with a few notes on them.
2019-07-26T03:15:24 < salcedo> lm3670 even
2019-07-26T03:15:35 < salcedo> url for list?
2019-07-26T03:15:56 < karlp> dude, the topic.
2019-07-26T03:16:05 < karlp> our collected wisdom j0 :)
2019-07-26T03:16:38 < salcedo> was looking at this the other day. thought it was just memes :P
2019-07-26T03:16:49 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/sot23-5.ldos.dongs
2019-07-26T03:17:05 < karlp> no, "philosphy" might be some humour, but it's useful stuff.
2019-07-26T03:17:24 < karlp> "we" _are_ generally mostly on topic or at least tangentially,
2019-07-26T03:17:37 < salcedo> the mic5504 is definitely awesome. that's what i was going to use originally but it's only 300ma :(
2019-07-26T03:18:29 < karlp> most of these are small regs, sot23-5 is a terrible footprint for heat dissipation
2019-07-26T03:19:02 < karlp> if you're really needing 600mA, you may wish to consider a) buck/boost as you found with lm3671 and alllllll it's friends, or b) not sot-23-5
2019-07-26T03:19:24 < karlp> how much current do you need?
2019-07-26T03:20:59 < salcedo> this _is_ an l0
2019-07-26T03:21:09 < salcedo> and the rf95 does around 180ma tops on tx i think
2019-07-26T03:22:07 < salcedo> 120ma
2019-07-26T03:22:29 < salcedo> 300ma should be fine, mic5504 it is
2019-07-26T03:22:36 < Laurenceb> 600ma with sot-23-5 is tricky but maybe doable
2019-07-26T03:22:53 < Laurenceb> I've done similar stuff but only with <300mV drop
2019-07-26T03:23:09 < karlp> ^^
2019-07-26T03:23:33 < Laurenceb> the question is why, what are you aiming to do?
2019-07-26T03:23:43 < karlp> lora
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2019-07-26T03:23:50 < karlp> the answer these days is always lora
2019-07-26T03:23:53 < Laurenceb> heh
2019-07-26T03:24:20 < karlp> there's no purpose in asking why, or for what, or anythingelse, the answer is lora
2019-07-26T03:24:34 < salcedo> lora/lorawan no
2019-07-26T03:25:03 < salcedo> pretty sure the lorawan crowd would hate me if they knew what i was attempting
2019-07-26T03:25:42 < karlp> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L397TWLwrUU ? perhaps?
2019-07-26T03:25:58 < salcedo> lelz nah
2019-07-26T03:26:51 < salcedo> a little bit higher duty cycle than lorawan? yeah maybe.
2019-07-26T03:27:06 < salcedo> but still within the limits of applicable laws
2019-07-26T03:27:23 < Laurenceb> BocaChicaGrrl moar liek BocaChicaGrill
2019-07-26T03:27:48 < karlp> heh, also, judas priest with 37mil, well done
2019-07-26T03:28:11 < Laurenceb> lol https://mobile.twitter.com/bocachicagirl?lang=en
2019-07-26T03:31:19 < karlp> huh, tps7a19, 40V version. 400mA even.
2019-07-26T03:33:40 < Laurenceb> >spacex drone in the air, no t=0 countdown today, extended window
2019-07-26T03:33:54 < Cracki> wat
2019-07-26T03:34:14 < Cracki> you noticed that they dropped that formality?
2019-07-26T03:34:15 < karlp> any other calls on zypsnips recently? I've got some cheapass butttons, some usb-c-ish...
2019-07-26T03:36:24 < Laurenceb> "this is nasa mission control, we are at t-when we feel like it seconds"
2019-07-26T03:38:26 < Laurenceb> oi m8 wanna launch da woket??
2019-07-26T03:38:42 < Laurenceb> >testing RCS
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2019-07-26T03:50:48 < Cracki> when did you see a drone
2019-07-26T04:04:00 < Laurenceb> I'm reposting BocaChicaGrrl
2019-07-26T04:05:56 < specing> who the hell is bocachicagirl
2019-07-26T04:06:16 < bitmask> any tips for cleaning a washing machine? this brown gunk started appearing, probably a mix of soap scum and mold thats built up
2019-07-26T04:09:00 < Cracki> uh same. I think mine's could be rust and/or some grease
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2019-07-26T04:09:22 < Laurenceb> specing: a nerdgrrrl
2019-07-26T04:09:33 < Laurenceb> specing: girl in the comic book store .mp4
2019-07-26T04:10:17 < Laurenceb> she has grrrl in the username so you know she is an autistic attention seeker
2019-07-26T04:11:23 < specing> yes
2019-07-26T04:12:52 < Laurenceb> >TVC test
2019-07-26T04:19:35 < karlp> bitmask: run a hotwash
2019-07-26T04:19:58 < bitmask> yea im running the self cleaning cycle for the second time, it looks like it might actually be clearing up now
2019-07-26T04:20:15 < bitmask> used a good amount of bleach too
2019-07-26T04:33:34 < Laurenceb> weird I never clean mine
2019-07-26T04:33:48 < Laurenceb> but I hate to think what is hiding behind the drum
2019-07-26T04:39:51 < karlp> lolrence: if you run a hot wash often enough you won't normally need to
2019-07-26T04:40:09 < karlp> if you always run a 30-40C wash, you will need to clean it somewhat often
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2019-07-26T04:46:24 < karlp> whe did renesas bring out cortex-m parts?!
2019-07-26T04:46:51 < karlp> also wat is with this product literature:
2019-07-26T04:46:54 < karlp> https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/r/renesas/s5d3-microcontroller?utm_medium=email&utm_source=npa&utm_campaign=53297_NPA1907B&utm_content=supplier9image_IS_559-Renesas&utm_cid=9459890&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWVRneFpUZzBOekk0WXpVeiIsInQiOiJNK0hlWm9NNlR0bnZLYVFNY2daTDNWaldtQ2FHS0hJVVNmUzdpQ3Y2TjhpR1lkbkdWSDJqbUFIMmdzbWd2d21TSEFKRk9Vb1R0NFc4SFcvNVAwaWFIL1lxbTkrL3d3WSs1WlBmYkRlSDdDSmdmbjdWaEo3ajZ6a2JnZlFnL2hYZS
2019-07-26T04:46:56 < karlp> J9
2019-07-26T04:46:58 < karlp> ufck
2019-07-26T04:47:21 < karlp> https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/r/renesas/s5d3-microcontroller that one
2019-07-26T04:47:32 < karlp> "This microcontroller unit does not require Ethernet connectivity or on-chip graphics acceleration."
2019-07-26T04:47:38 < karlp> well no, but... wat if I wanted it?!
2019-07-26T04:47:58 < mawk> lol
2019-07-26T04:48:00 < mawk> weird phrasing
2019-07-26T04:48:09 < karlp> and here's me never having considered flash:sram as a ratio I needed to bear in mind
2019-07-26T04:48:10 < mawk> they want to pass that as a feature
2019-07-26T04:48:18 < karlp> yah
2019-07-26T04:48:43 < karlp> silly prices though
2019-07-26T04:48:55 < karlp> right, well past bed for me.
2019-07-26T04:48:57  * karlp waves
2019-07-26T04:49:11 < mawk> good night
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2019-07-26T06:00:03 < Thorn> starhopper test may happen soon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aChE86D0c_A
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2019-07-26T06:13:26 < aandrew> what’s the worst thing about locking the keys in your car at Planned Parenthood? going inside to ask for a coat hanger. 
2019-07-26T06:13:52 < mawk> lol
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2019-07-26T06:38:11 < Thorn> test hop any moment now
2019-07-26T06:46:04 < Thorn> it happened
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2019-07-26T09:37:01 < Tricky> hello
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2019-07-26T09:41:12 < machinehum> hi weiners
2019-07-26T09:41:26 < machinehum> I know you're here.
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2019-07-26T09:43:26 < Steffanx> Hum hum
2019-07-26T09:43:44 < machinehum> hello
2019-07-26T09:43:59 < Steffanx> Welcome
2019-07-26T09:44:27 < machinehum> How do I get invited to the #stm32
2019-07-26T09:44:36 < machinehum> I have serious questions
2019-07-26T09:44:59 < machinehum> About Arduino stuff
2019-07-26T09:46:23 < machinehum> /kb machinehum
2019-07-26T09:47:11 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-26T09:47:24 < Steffanx> Oh is the redirect broken again?
2019-07-26T09:48:46 < machinehum> I'm just being a drunk troll
2019-07-26T09:55:10 < Steffanx> I see
2019-07-26T09:55:45 < Steffanx> Why machinehum 
2019-07-26T09:55:50 < Steffanx> Addict much?
2019-07-26T09:59:34 < machinehum> Probably
2019-07-26T10:01:08 < Steffanx> Hm. Better stop drinking
2019-07-26T10:01:12 < machinehum> Steffanx: LL or HAL
2019-07-26T10:01:21 < Steffanx> LL
2019-07-26T10:01:25 < machinehum> sick
2019-07-26T10:01:37 < machinehum> Oh actually
2019-07-26T10:02:16 < machinehum> Are there any silicon guys that make a HAL in C++?
2019-07-26T10:02:30 < machinehum> Because I find c insufferable
2019-07-26T10:03:19 < machinehum> I think st should make their LL in c, and a badass HAL in C++
2019-07-26T10:03:30 < machinehum> That would be fucking awesome
2019-07-26T10:05:13 < Thorn> I write drivers and libraries in c++17 for my projects
2019-07-26T10:05:32 < machinehum> Scratch?
2019-07-26T10:05:42 < Thorn> of course
2019-07-26T10:05:48 < machinehum> Sounds hard
2019-07-26T10:06:21 < Thorn> we choose c++ not because it is easy but because it is hard
2019-07-26T10:06:37 < machinehum> Also what elements of 17 do you use?
2019-07-26T10:07:06 < Thorn> class template argument deduction
2019-07-26T10:08:07 < machinehum> brb i learn
2019-07-26T10:08:56 < specing> Thorn: C++ is easy
2019-07-26T10:09:00 < specing> try Ada
2019-07-26T10:09:15 < machinehum> What is this 1997
2019-07-26T10:09:24 < specing> try getting your program formally verified
2019-07-26T10:09:28 < Thorn> I'd love to 
2019-07-26T10:09:28 < Thorn> there are no free compilers
2019-07-26T10:09:30 < specing> now that is hard
2019-07-26T10:09:35 < machinehum> Ada isn't a thing people use anymore?
2019-07-26T10:09:36 < specing> sure there are
2019-07-26T10:09:37 < specing> gcc
2019-07-26T10:09:42 < machinehum> What
2019-07-26T10:09:51 < machinehum> no there's an ada gcc
2019-07-26T10:10:01 < specing> gcc's Ada front-end is probably the best Ada compiler around
2019-07-26T10:10:26 < specing> Ada isn't stuck in 1997, the latest standard is from 2012 and the next one will come out soon
2019-07-26T10:10:36 < machinehum> Is it more strict?
2019-07-26T10:10:45 < specing> and the high integrity (SPARK) subset standard is from 2014
2019-07-26T10:11:12 < specing> machinehum: it just adds more features while deprecating some, strictness is preserved
2019-07-26T10:11:39 < machinehum> Why isn't it more popular for emdedded?
2019-07-26T10:12:02 < machinehum> I've read some really good books that talk about it
2019-07-26T10:12:12 < machinehum> But never seen it in the wild
2019-07-26T10:13:02 < specing> machinehum: because it is hard to write in
2019-07-26T10:13:15 < machinehum> Interesting
2019-07-26T10:13:44 < machinehum> specing: You use it?
2019-07-26T10:13:52 < machinehum> For embedded?
2019-07-26T10:14:03 < specing> However, the total cost of writing and maintaining software is lower than C++, due to the strictness not permitting bugs to show up
2019-07-26T10:14:06 < specing> yes machinehum 
2019-07-26T10:14:36 < machinehum> So you would say it's a good investment?
2019-07-26T10:15:03 < specing> yes
2019-07-26T10:15:21 < machinehum> I shelved my learning of rust to spend more time leaning better c++
2019-07-26T10:15:53 < machinehum> Time is expensive
2019-07-26T10:16:55 < specing> machinehum: do however note that outside of aerospace/trains you will have a hard time getting an Ada job
2019-07-26T10:18:47 < Thorn> just start an IIoT(tm) startup using ada, create ada jobs
2019-07-26T10:19:01 < machinehum> Internet of stings
2019-07-26T10:19:09 < Thorn> market it as a huge competitive advantage
2019-07-26T10:19:34 < machinehum> I think hardware enclaves are going to be huge
2019-07-26T10:20:03 < machinehum> The aftermath of people building these crappy things
2019-07-26T10:20:52 < machinehum> I think I just heard like 5 gunshots outside my place and now there are sirons
2019-07-26T10:20:57 < machinehum> brb
2019-07-26T10:21:28 < specing> Thorn: IIoT?
2019-07-26T10:22:42 < machinehum> Guess: Idiot IOT?
2019-07-26T10:22:54 < Thorn> Industrial IoT
2019-07-26T10:23:04 < Thorn> i.e. rich idiot iot
2019-07-26T10:23:45 < machinehum> That was always covered by plc shit
2019-07-26T10:24:03 < specing> Thorn: there is some warehouse management software that is in Ada
2019-07-26T10:24:07 < machinehum> Rockwell has some thing you can pay money to get
2019-07-26T10:24:56 < machinehum> I worked in industrial stuff
2019-07-26T10:25:17 < specing> Thorn: commercial one, that is
2019-07-26T10:25:36 < Thorn> how does 74 165 work
2019-07-26T10:25:50 < Thorn> are miso, clk and latch enough?
2019-07-26T10:26:50 < machinehum> I hate industrial automation
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2019-07-26T10:30:20 < srk> machinehum: I write my embedded code in haskell .. :)
2019-07-26T10:30:37 < machinehum> srk: Really?
2019-07-26T10:31:00 < machinehum> That's fucking cool if you're being serious
2019-07-26T10:31:01 < srk> machinehum: yep, http://48.io/~rmarko/book/
2019-07-26T10:31:55 < srk> it's eDSL which generates C in the end which is linked with FreeRTOS in case of STM32 
2019-07-26T10:32:33 < machinehum> Operate in a proper function code?
2019-07-26T10:32:39 < machinehum> Because that seems hard
2019-07-26T10:33:16 < Thorn> I heard boeing does something like that
2019-07-26T10:33:35 < machinehum> burn
2019-07-26T10:33:35 < Thorn> they have some kind of haskell dsl that can go to FV or to a C generator
2019-07-26T10:33:55 < srk> this was a darpa research project, they managed to port arducopter https://smaccmpilot.org/
2019-07-26T10:34:05 < srk> with EC crypto link :)
2019-07-26T10:34:14 < specing> Thorn: given the recent accidents, I wouldnt be surprised if boeing is using C++
2019-07-26T10:34:21 < srk> miscra c
2019-07-26T10:34:28 < srk> most probably :)
2019-07-26T10:34:41 < Thorn> the accidents aren't due to bugs in software, the bugs are in the specs
2019-07-26T10:35:12 < Steffanx> Does it have to reboot every 149 hours like the Airbus a350?
2019-07-26T10:35:15 < specing> Thorn: they are due to unimplemented features and warning lights being optional
2019-07-26T10:35:23 < srk> xD
2019-07-26T10:35:40 < specing> better reboot than 300 dead
2019-07-26T10:36:14 < Thorn> how are these microUSB connectors with TH tabs are supposed to be soldered? the TH tabs are about 0.75mm tall (half the PCB thickness)
2019-07-26T10:36:27 < machinehum> Thorn: yes
2019-07-26T10:36:43 < Thorn> how am I supposed to make sure solder flows into the holes and wets them 
2019-07-26T10:37:33 < machinehum> I think functional programming is brilliant
2019-07-26T10:38:03 < machinehum> My brain exploded when trying to envision it in embedded
2019-07-26T10:38:37 < machinehum> It's basically a HAL at that point, and with a HAL you always need to drill into it
2019-07-26T10:38:45 < machinehum> Because it breaks
2019-07-26T10:39:50 < machinehum> Also I'm reading that page
2019-07-26T10:40:24 < Thorn> functional programming is brilliant for some things (like threading) and horrible for others (like i/o)
2019-07-26T10:40:36 < machinehum> Agree
2019-07-26T10:42:28 < machinehum> Lets just make some dumb language that allows you to write code in whatever language you want in certain scopes
2019-07-26T10:42:44 < srk> contrived blink example is here https://github.com/distrap/ivory-tower-helloworld/blob/master/src/Hello/Tests/SimpleBlink.hs
2019-07-26T10:42:46 < machinehum> Sounds dumb enough to be real
2019-07-26T10:42:54 < Thorn> different languages == different runtimes
2019-07-26T10:43:09 < srk> also explained in the book, you write small controllers that communicate with others via typed channels
2019-07-26T10:43:31 < Thorn> and squeeze them all into 8KB RAM
2019-07-26T10:43:53 < machinehum> Thorn: That is wtf I'm talking about
2019-07-26T10:43:55 < Thorn> because that's what I have in my IIoT(tm) devices
2019-07-26T10:44:08 < machinehum> What
2019-07-26T10:44:17 < machinehum> What is this 1995
2019-07-26T10:44:30 < machinehum> The fuck is your target?
2019-07-26T10:44:49 < Thorn> stm32l05xx8
2019-07-26T10:45:09 < Steffanx> Tarduino machinehum  
2019-07-26T10:45:11 < machinehum> srk: Reading it, that's cool
2019-07-26T10:45:28 < Thorn> well it's not IoT(tm) of course because no tcp/ip in the devices thankfully
2019-07-26T10:45:33 < Thorn> but there is a radio protocol
2019-07-26T10:45:39 < srk> LoRa? :)
2019-07-26T10:45:44 < Thorn> no
2019-07-26T10:46:01 < Thorn> my own MAC written in c++17(tm)
2019-07-26T10:46:14 < srk> :D
2019-07-26T10:46:15 < Thorn> over FSK
2019-07-26T10:46:24 < machinehum> what
2019-07-26T10:46:41 < srk> we're also doing IoT nodes but using LoRaWAN and targeting L4s
2019-07-26T10:46:49 < machinehum> just bare sdr? Or what?
2019-07-26T10:47:18 < machinehum> lora is cool, channel cap is so limited
2019-07-26T10:47:28 < Thorn> I used sx1276 for the 1st gen, now switching to SI4463
2019-07-26T10:47:35 < machinehum> tx like 10% of the time?
2019-07-26T10:48:48 < srk> 1% iirc
2019-07-26T10:49:39 < srk> there's like one high speed channel
2019-07-26T10:49:44 < machinehum> Thorn: freq?
2019-07-26T10:49:59 < Thorn> 864/868 MHz
2019-07-26T10:50:00 < srk> it's not just lora but any radio in free bands
2019-07-26T10:50:31 < machinehum> LF is a pain in the ass
2019-07-26T10:51:00 < machinehum> And when I main LF I mean VHF or whatever the fuck it's called
2019-07-26T10:51:26 < machinehum> sun gh
2019-07-26T10:51:30 < machinehum> gh
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2019-07-26T10:54:59 < machinehum> Here's my question: what happens if we all go nuclear and use these SDRs to build a bassass net internet
2019-07-26T10:55:23 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-07-26T10:55:47 < machinehum> Interesting idea right?
2019-07-26T10:55:55 < machinehum> lol
2019-07-26T10:56:25 < machinehum> Plug your 100
2019-07-26T10:57:01 < machinehum> Plug your 100$ SDR into some PA and start broadcasting some open connection...
2019-07-26T10:57:18 < machinehum> How fast until jail?
2019-07-26T10:57:47 < Steffanx> Jail.. they'll seize your stuff here pretty quickly
2019-07-26T10:58:02 < Steffanx> It takes a while before you'll get into jail for that here
2019-07-26T10:58:26 < machinehum> Do they just knock on your door?
2019-07-26T10:58:50 < Steffanx> One guy here did get into jail for something like it very often though. He refused to give up his pirate radio station hobby
2019-07-26T10:59:03 < Steffanx> Here = dutchland
2019-07-26T10:59:12 < machinehum> Steffanx: Really?!
2019-07-26T10:59:16 < Steffanx> Yeah
2019-07-26T10:59:31 < machinehum> Which band>
2019-07-26T10:59:33 < machinehum> ?
2019-07-26T10:59:53 < machinehum> normal fm
2019-07-26T11:00:06 < Steffanx> Standard AM/FM radio band
2019-07-26T11:00:18 < machinehum> That's pretty awesome
2019-07-26T11:00:54 < Steffanx> The guy was addicted to broadcasting his shitty music
2019-07-26T11:01:02 < Steffanx> Not a joke. He even got help for it
2019-07-26T11:01:09 < Thorn> you can transmit on FM in Europe, something like 100 or even 500 mW btw
2019-07-26T11:01:12 < machinehum> I've always had a dream of setting up a pirate radio station way tf in the mountains
2019-07-26T11:01:31 < machinehum> Generating power from a river
2019-07-26T11:01:39 < Steffanx> Heh :)
2019-07-26T11:01:45 < machinehum> Thorn: what? really
2019-07-26T11:02:14 < machinehum> They should open of higher bands
2019-07-26T11:02:19 < Thorn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_transmitter_(personal_device)#Legality
2019-07-26T11:02:27 < machinehum> And people should set up a free internet
2019-07-26T11:02:36 < machinehum> That would be so cool
2019-07-26T11:03:22 < machinehum> Oh actually those are allowed where I'm from
2019-07-26T11:03:32 < Steffanx> "Free internet" is that a thing? Ever?
2019-07-26T11:03:50 < Steffanx> Maybe for 3 seconds, but after that?
2019-07-26T11:03:50 < machinehum> idk maybe it's a bad thing
2019-07-26T11:04:04 < Steffanx> The internet was semi-free once
2019-07-26T11:04:12 < machinehum> When?
2019-07-26T11:04:58 < Steffanx> I was gonna say before the NSA, but that's not true :P
2019-07-26T11:05:09 < Steffanx> NSA existed*
2019-07-26T11:05:11 < machinehum> I like the idea of some wild open bands where anyone can just set up some some antenna and join a massive network
2019-07-26T11:05:36 < machinehum> There's a difference between being free and open and private
2019-07-26T11:05:46 < machinehum> I think
2019-07-26T11:06:22 < Steffanx> So what is your definition of free?
2019-07-26T11:06:35 < Steffanx> As as in money or free as in .. fo whatever you like
2019-07-26T11:06:42 < Steffanx> do*
2019-07-26T11:08:17 < machinehum> Free has nothing to do with money
2019-07-26T11:08:29 < machinehum> Free means anyone can partake
2019-07-26T11:08:54 < Steffanx> And free as in freedom to do whatever you want?
2019-07-26T11:09:03 < machinehum> Privacy has more to do with encryption
2019-07-26T11:09:09 < machinehum> Steffanx: yes
2019-07-26T11:09:55 < machinehum> Freedom is like air, you breath it. It's free, everyone gets it.
2019-07-26T11:10:13 < Steffanx> Utopia will the name of the network be?
2019-07-26T11:10:20 < machinehum> Sure
2019-07-26T11:10:31 < machinehum> Call it what you want who cares
2019-07-26T11:11:10 < machinehum> Privacy is how you use the air around your peers, it's a choice
2019-07-26T11:11:58 < Steffanx> Nah I meant it sounds like a utopia to me. Sooner or later it will be the internet as we know it.
2019-07-26T11:12:25 < machinehum> You'll never get it routed through companies
2019-07-26T11:13:00 < machinehum> The answer is wireless
2019-07-26T11:13:23 < Steffanx> Until some company decide to become a hub of some sort
2019-07-26T11:13:29 < Steffanx> Decides*
2019-07-26T11:13:40 < machinehum> Single point of failure
2019-07-26T11:13:43 < Steffanx> Because they're free to do so
2019-07-26T11:13:50 < machinehum> power corrupts dude
2019-07-26T11:14:15 < Steffanx> Ofcourse.
2019-07-26T11:15:16 < machinehum> So we going to build this shit or what?
2019-07-26T11:15:26 < machinehum> My hair's going grey
2019-07-26T11:16:57 < Steffanx> The lora networks in dutchland started like this. Small networks by hobbyists. Crappy as hell and no coverage. Now the larger telecom companies run their network. Country wide coverage.
2019-07-26T11:17:31 < Steffanx> You can still use the hobby stuff ofcourse but.. 
2019-07-26T11:18:47 < Steffanx> Not entirely the same probably.
2019-07-26T11:19:53 < Steffanx> Anyway, go for it machinehum . Tell me what freq. to tune in to
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2019-07-26T11:23:18 < machinehum> Steffanx: Alright I'll let you know.
2019-07-26T11:23:22 < machinehum> Lets do this
2019-07-26T11:26:34 < qyx> there was such project
2019-07-26T11:26:41 < qyx> we had such networks over 5G wifi
2019-07-26T11:28:46 < qyx> now there is no such thing
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2019-07-26T11:28:57 < qyx> because there are maybe 0.1% users caring
2019-07-26T11:29:26 < qyx> the rest need only facebook, instagram, twitter etc.
2019-07-26T11:29:28 < Steffanx> Yeah. 
2019-07-26T11:30:26 < Steffanx> Let's make a humnetwork to "internet" hub for those people
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2019-07-26T11:31:29 < qyx> maybe there could be an interest between preppers for post-apocalyptic networks
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2019-07-26T12:40:36 < Laurenceb> Based Boris! MBGA! 
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2019-07-26T13:15:06 < jadew> qyx, there is, they are ham radio operators
2019-07-26T13:15:55 < jadew> so there kinda is a standard already in place
2019-07-26T13:16:07 < jadew> you can send both voice and data
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2019-07-26T13:16:11 < Thorn> but ham radio operators are not allowed to transmit any useful information?
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2019-07-26T13:16:31 < jadew> Thorn, they don't now
2019-07-26T13:17:21 < jadew> but apocalypse or natural disasters are every ham's wet dream
2019-07-26T13:17:27 < Thorn> http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slla414/slla414.pdf black magic in 25 pages
2019-07-26T13:17:44 < jadew> they get to rely info for the emergency intervention teams
2019-07-26T13:19:19 < qyx> ham networks have the ultimate problem of forbidden encryption
2019-07-26T13:19:27 < Thorn> I remember a heroic story about an earthquake in Armenia in 1988 when radio hams built an emergency network and the communications minister himself had to use their services
2019-07-26T13:19:34 < qyx> so for most apocalyptic usecases they are unusable
2019-07-26T13:20:13 < Thorn> like "I need to send a message" -- "who are you?" -- "communications minister"
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2019-07-26T13:20:19 < Thorn> must be their wet drema
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2019-07-26T13:21:52 < englishman> lol @ ada jobs
2019-07-26T13:21:55 < englishman> Thorn: what happened?
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2019-07-26T13:26:01 < Thorn> what do you mean
2019-07-26T13:34:34 < Steffanx> Monitized westeners happened.
2019-07-26T13:34:58 < englishman> there was some fire
2019-07-26T13:35:04 < englishman> but not much hopping
2019-07-26T13:35:40 < Thorn> oh the starhopper? the test was successful, it started a grass fire
2019-07-26T13:36:27 < Thorn> elon promises a 200m flight "in a week or 2"
2019-07-26T13:37:29 < englishman> it will be in a week
2019-07-26T13:37:35 < englishman> which week, he didnt say
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2019-07-26T14:47:16 < Thorn> who wants to study Chinese https://openedu.ru/course/spbu/CHINB/ https://openedu.ru/course/spbu/CHINB2/
2019-07-26T14:58:01 < englishman> this cypress tech is telling me one thing
2019-07-26T14:58:11 < englishman> but I am seeing something else on actual hardware
2019-07-26T14:58:31 < englishman> fucking cypress
2019-07-26T14:58:36 < englishman> every single fucking part
2019-07-26T14:58:43 < englishman> is the very definition of
2019-07-26T14:58:48 < englishman> "looks good on paper"
2019-07-26T15:03:12 < Thorn> psoc?
2019-07-26T15:06:21 < englishman> their usb-c bcr which is psoc inside yes
2019-07-26T15:08:25 < aandrew> englishman: hah yes pretty much
2019-07-26T15:08:30 < aandrew> "looks good on paper"
2019-07-26T15:15:09 < jadew> me just made biggest machining job order yet
2019-07-26T15:15:16 < jadew> 50 and 100 pcs of something
2019-07-26T15:15:29 < jadew> /
2019-07-26T15:16:33 < jadew> (not the box)
2019-07-26T15:17:44 < aandrew> jadew: oh? what are you machining and do you hire gypsies to do it
2019-07-26T15:17:52 < jadew> I hired chinese
2019-07-26T15:18:15 < jadew> making an adapter for an SMA connector
2019-07-26T15:18:39 < jadew> so it can be mounted on HP frequency counters
2019-07-26T15:19:09 < jadew> (and in other places, for sure)
2019-07-26T15:22:19 < jadew> hope there will be a demand for it
2019-07-26T15:23:13 < jadew> I'm planning to pair it with my 8 GHz prescalers
2019-07-26T15:23:58 < jadew> with a hand picked BNC cable (measured on the VNA), you lose about 5 dB of sensitivity
2019-07-26T15:24:33 < jadew> the best option to avoid that costs ~$40
2019-07-26T15:25:05 < jadew> with this thing, I think I can bring that down to $20-$25, and it's also more convenient
2019-07-26T15:25:27 < jadew> (from a connector perspective)
2019-07-26T15:29:36 < jadew> I could also offer it separately for a bit more, for those who want to use it with the crappy chinese prescalers
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2019-07-26T16:21:23 < kakimir> it's properly warm
2019-07-26T16:21:28 < kakimir> thanks steff
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2019-07-26T17:21:21 < Steffanx> Yw kakimir  
2019-07-26T17:21:28 < Steffanx> What's properly warm?
2019-07-26T17:24:13 < kakimir> idk
2019-07-26T17:24:15 < kakimir> 29C
2019-07-26T17:24:36 < kakimir> I think I will go riding my moped with shorts and sandals now
2019-07-26T17:24:42 < kakimir> sandals with socks
2019-07-26T17:25:59 < Steffanx> Nooo
2019-07-26T17:26:23 < Steffanx> So your moped works again
2019-07-26T17:26:34 < kakimir> I'm wanted for multiple fashion crimes
2019-07-26T17:26:48 < kakimir> kinda
2019-07-26T17:27:00 < kakimir> it works propperly at full throttle
2019-07-26T17:30:31 < kakimir> 10krpm - 15krpm at full throttle it goes like stink
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2019-07-26T18:36:57 < qyx> I though sandals with socks is an invention of our friends from Czechia
2019-07-26T18:37:32 < qyx> I was not aware it can be seen in distant nordic countries
2019-07-26T18:37:53 < BrainDamage> it can be seen everywhere
2019-07-26T18:38:03 < BrainDamage> japanese have it too
2019-07-26T18:39:14 < jadew> we have that too
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2019-07-26T18:41:07 < jadew> I think it's just a matter of comfort
2019-07-26T18:41:32 < jadew> probably those who do wear them like that, do so because the sock makes it more comfortable
2019-07-26T18:42:15 < jadew> at the same time, you get plenty of air between your toes
2019-07-26T18:44:59 < Cracki> who even came up with the notion that sandals and socks are a problem?
2019-07-26T18:45:04 < Cracki> can't have been men
2019-07-26T18:46:59 < salcedo> sandals and socks give you less mobility
2019-07-26T18:47:19 < salcedo> this could be a problem if you need to move quickly
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2019-07-26T18:48:14 < jadew> if you plan running in sandals you're already doing it wrong
2019-07-26T18:48:50 < jadew> and think the socks would help there
2019-07-26T18:51:49 < mawk> temperature lowered by 10°C, much bettert
2019-07-26T18:54:58 < jadew> they relocated you in the alley?
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2019-07-26T18:58:26 < mawk> lol
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2019-07-26T22:51:40 < superbia> good evening
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2019-07-26T22:56:33 < Steffanx> γεια superbia
2019-07-26T22:57:08 < superbia> plaka mou kaneis
2019-07-26T22:58:09 < Steffanx> danke
2019-07-26T22:59:28 < superbia> goede
2019-07-26T22:59:48 < Steffanx> avond?
2019-07-26T22:59:52 < superbia> avond
2019-07-26T23:00:15 < superbia> my last friend from that country is in jail
2019-07-26T23:00:39 < superbia> so my amsterdamish is getting worse and worse
2019-07-26T23:00:40 < Steffanx> "that country"?
2019-07-26T23:00:49 < Steffanx> the netherlands?
2019-07-26T23:00:54 < superbia> jail
2019-07-26T23:00:56 < superbia> yes
2019-07-26T23:01:01 < superbia> he's in jail
2019-07-26T23:01:06 < mawk> people say holland all the time
2019-07-26T23:01:12 < mawk> on tv and everything
2019-07-26T23:01:13 < Steffanx> tell him not to do that superbia
2019-07-26T23:01:19 < Steffanx> yeah, fuck those people mawk
2019-07-26T23:01:50 < superbia> he's in jail.. no irc, no mail
2019-07-26T23:01:57 < Steffanx> What did he do?
2019-07-26T23:01:59 < superbia> idk
2019-07-26T23:02:05 < Steffanx> lol
2019-07-26T23:02:19 < superbia> he build like police scanners
2019-07-26T23:02:32 < superbia> and researched some special led's
2019-07-26T23:02:39 < superbia> i assume for growing le herbs
2019-07-26T23:03:21 < Steffanx> i see
2019-07-26T23:05:56 < qyx> lol
2019-07-26T23:06:45 < superbia> he was also knew the guys that used a bazooka to rob an armored truck
2019-07-26T23:06:57 < superbia> and many other drama stories
2019-07-26T23:07:35 < superbia> drama you usually connect with eastern countries, it all happens in nl
2019-07-26T23:07:47 < salcedo> if mawk is in jail, who is chatting under mawk's nick now?
2019-07-26T23:07:58 < superbia> evil girlfriend
2019-07-26T23:08:41 < salcedo> ah. hi mawk evil gf. give us a secret drop location so we can send liquor, shanks, and smut for mawk.
2019-07-26T23:09:24 < superbia> salcedo: are you from brazil
2019-07-26T23:09:36 < salcedo> no
2019-07-26T23:09:38 < superbia> your name looks portugeseish
2019-07-26T23:10:11 < mawk> lol
2019-07-26T23:10:12 < salcedo> i am a mutt with a spanish last name
2019-07-26T23:10:23 < mawk> I'm not in jail salcedo 
2019-07-26T23:11:02 < superbia> Steffanx: do you have any memes
2019-07-26T23:11:13 < salcedo> mawk: duh... superbia just said his gf is using mawk's acct. how's he doing anyway? commissary funds loaded up?
2019-07-26T23:11:44 < mawk> :(
2019-07-26T23:11:50 < mawk> I've not been sentenced to jail
2019-07-26T23:12:00 < mawk> I have like 1 month to pay, if I don't pay it's just extra fees
2019-07-26T23:12:08 < salcedo> last we heard, he was trying to flee captivity to the netherlands, then he went dark for like a week.
2019-07-26T23:12:10 < mawk> for less than 2 years you don't go in jail anyway here
2019-07-26T23:12:28 < salcedo> haha wow must be nice
2019-07-26T23:12:39 < salcedo> here's a little tip if you ever get in trouble in the US and you're facing jail time.
2019-07-26T23:12:47 < salcedo> if the jail time is less than 1 year, take the jail time.
2019-07-26T23:13:35 < salcedo> < 1 year is 1000x better than the alternatives.
2019-07-26T23:14:40 < salcedo> for example. my uncle got in trouble drinking and driving in canada back in the 70's
2019-07-26T23:14:59 < salcedo> he was offered to spend some time in jail or an alternative sentence.
2019-07-26T23:15:08 < salcedo> alternative sentence = banned from canada for life.
2019-07-26T23:15:37 < superbia> you assume canada is us
2019-07-26T23:15:46 < superbia> he was sentenced in canada for crimes he did in canada
2019-07-26T23:15:50 < superbia> but he was a us citizen
2019-07-26T23:15:52 < salcedo> yea
2019-07-26T23:15:54 < superbia> what the fuck are you talking about
2019-07-26T23:16:08 < superbia> it's like you commit crime in bulgaria, and you are from romania
2019-07-26T23:16:14 < superbia> and you are banned from entering bulgaria
2019-07-26T23:16:50 < salcedo> what if you had a really important reason to go to bulgaria, and bulgaria said "go to jail for 2 months or never come to bulgaria ever again." ?
2019-07-26T23:17:16 < qyx> then I would not drive drunk
2019-07-26T23:17:23 < superbia> he must have had important reason to drink vodka and drive
2019-07-26T23:17:31 < salcedo> too late. you did. and it was stupid. now you're facing the music. what is your decision?
2019-07-26T23:17:34 < superbia> in a FOREIGN country
2019-07-26T23:17:48 < superbia> you americans assume every inch of the planet is US
2019-07-26T23:18:55 < salcedo> yes that is one of the big downsides to being born here.
2019-07-26T23:19:02 < salcedo> we are not well cultured.
2019-07-26T23:19:18 < salcedo> our criminal justice system is very different from other countries
2019-07-26T23:20:25 < superbia> america gave us the greatest products of the 21 century, don't say things like that
2019-07-26T23:20:36 < salcedo> lol what?
2019-07-26T23:20:56 < superbia> zano
2019-07-26T23:20:58 < salcedo> pretty sure that was china. thanks for trying to tickle our egos though :)
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2019-07-26T23:58:48 < Steffanx> welcome superbia
--- Day changed Sat Jul 27 2019
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2019-07-27T00:02:38 < Steffanx> Dont forget I can teach you the need-to-know dutch as well
2019-07-27T00:03:23 < mawk> oliebollen is the only word you need
2019-07-27T00:04:00 < Steffanx> Stroopwafels.
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2019-07-27T00:17:12 < zyp> drempels
2019-07-27T00:17:25 < salcedo> drempel tool
2019-07-27T00:17:37 < salcedo> makes drempels
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2019-07-27T02:01:21 < jadew> is modically not a word in english?
2019-07-27T02:04:50 < karlp> not to me at least, what's it mean to youÐ?
2019-07-27T02:05:22 < jadew> karlp, a bit or slight
2019-07-27T02:06:36 < jadew> like... a modical amount of money would be: a small amount of money that's there almost so the thing wouldn't cost 0
2019-07-27T02:06:52 < karlp> hrm, a modicum is a tiny thing, but never heard modically
2019-07-27T02:07:05 < jadew> modicumly? :P
2019-07-27T02:07:17 < karlp> are you looking for a noun or what?
2019-07-27T02:07:30 < jadew> I was just surprised the spell checker couldn't find it
2019-07-27T02:07:40 < karlp> because it doesn't exist?
2019-07-27T02:07:48 < jadew> I used slight instead, but I could have sworn I heard it in english too
2019-07-27T02:07:51 < jadew> maybe I heard modicum
2019-07-27T02:09:54 < karlp> very myuhc a word :)
2019-07-27T02:10:48 < jadew> I should use it and maybe it picks up
2019-07-27T02:11:23 < karlp> people will google it, find nothing and go, "I nwonder what this person meant from context"
2019-07-27T02:11:28 < karlp> (if you're lucky)
2019-07-27T02:13:04 < jadew> and 10 years down the road it will mean something else
2019-07-27T02:13:42 < jadew> Urban Dictionary: Modicum: like a hot karl, but instead of wiping the balls, you wipe the ass.
2019-07-27T02:13:52 < jadew> sorry, *Modically
2019-07-27T02:16:12 < karlp> if you want your readers to be using urban dictionary to decode your writing, go ahead, be my guest
2019-07-27T02:16:31 < jadew> I don't, I want my readers to buy my stuff
2019-07-27T02:17:42 < jadew> got a word that makes them do that?
2019-07-27T02:18:03 < Cracki> nominal
2019-07-27T02:18:11 < Cracki> as in "nominal fee"
2019-07-27T02:18:25 < karlp> we don't have any context whatsoever other than you were looking for some fancy english word for a small thing
2019-07-27T02:18:39 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, wouldn't work here, I wasn't describing the price
2019-07-27T02:19:10 < Cracki> you could say it in romanian and hope google translate does a decent job
2019-07-27T02:19:40 < Cracki> if you weren't describing price, what were you describing that's "amount of money" but not price
2019-07-27T02:19:45 < jadew> I used slightly larger
2019-07-27T02:20:01 < jadew> my idea was to say "modically large signal power"
2019-07-27T02:20:07 < Cracki> aha!
2019-07-27T02:20:24 < Cracki> those 5 dB you were talking about earlier
2019-07-27T02:20:31 < jadew> no, different product
2019-07-27T02:21:02 < jadew> https://cojotech.com/lmt-030-2
2019-07-27T02:21:11 < Cracki> slight, marginal, minor, insignificant, negligible, trivial, ...
2019-07-27T02:21:23 < jadew> the second and 3rd paragraphs were not there
2019-07-27T02:22:27 < Cracki> you're talking about comparing some value to a threshold, not comparing two values
2019-07-27T02:22:31 < Cracki> maybe "exceed"
2019-07-27T02:23:11 < jadew> that doesn't work either, cuz they don't exceed anything, they're just small maximum values :)
2019-07-27T02:23:30 < jadew> forgot some formatting in there, it's fixed now
2019-07-27T02:23:50 < Cracki> so... low maximum rated power?
2019-07-27T02:23:55 < jadew> yeah
2019-07-27T02:24:05 < Cracki> strike -the- from "in the favor"
2019-07-27T02:25:00 < jadew> I added that consciously, thought it emphasizes something
2019-07-27T02:25:11 < jadew> wasn't sure about it, so I'll take it out
2019-07-27T02:25:23 < Cracki> dunno, sounded odd to my ears
2019-07-27T02:25:59 < jadew> thanks
2019-07-27T02:26:21 < Cracki> so... these SDRs have no input protection?
2019-07-27T02:26:33 < jadew> they don't, yeah
2019-07-27T02:26:41 < Cracki> that sounds like usb without protection diodes
2019-07-27T02:26:46 < Cracki> i.e. cheap design
2019-07-27T02:26:48 < jadew> it's worse than that
2019-07-27T02:27:14 < Cracki> yeah usb protection protects against a real problem, exceeding signal power can happen a lot more easily
2019-07-27T02:27:22 < Cracki> *power limit
2019-07-27T02:27:25 < jadew> yep
2019-07-27T02:31:50 < Cracki> so, it's really two problems these SDRs have: no input protection, AND low max power input
2019-07-27T02:32:14 < jadew> yeah
2019-07-27T02:48:15 < jadew> welcome to '98: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fev3oFzpU4I
2019-07-27T02:48:29 < Cracki> rabbit hole: "in favor of" is for comparisons and tradeoffs (things), "in the favor of" is for getting on the good side of people
2019-07-27T02:48:45 < Cracki> where's waldo
2019-07-27T02:48:59 < jadew> and his people
2019-07-27T02:49:09 < salcedo> "This video is not available". must be my combination of no-script and ublock settings.
2019-07-27T02:49:12 < jadew> ok that makes sense
2019-07-27T02:49:53 < Cracki> I haven't had "video not available" in ages, unless it's been speaking truth to power and got bonfired
2019-07-27T02:49:56 < jadew> no-script? you're some sort of tin-foil hat hacker?
2019-07-27T02:50:31 < salcedo> jadew: noooooooooooo.
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2019-07-27T02:50:54 < jadew> are you really blocking JS?
2019-07-27T02:50:55 < salcedo> well yeah. there is a privacy concern. but i use noscript mainly because javascript is bloat.
2019-07-27T02:51:18 < jadew> jeez... so most of the internet doesn't work for you, isn't it?
2019-07-27T02:51:18 < salcedo> i am on 3G
2019-07-27T02:51:32 < salcedo> if i don't block all the hipster.js, the internet is unusable.
2019-07-27T02:51:36 < Cracki> yeah for javascript you need at least 5G
2019-07-27T02:51:38 < jadew> salcedo, I'd be more worried about shitty pictures than js
2019-07-27T02:51:53 < salcedo> yeah thanks to the way the "devs" code most js, images don't load either :)
2019-07-27T02:52:02 < jadew> lol
2019-07-27T02:52:16 < jadew> but you did click on that video link
2019-07-27T02:52:28 < jadew> that could have easily eaten up 500 Mb
2019-07-27T02:52:32 < salcedo> i did. it didn't load any images, because i'm blocking ytimg.com
2019-07-27T02:52:33 < Cracki> kitteh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rHp919IAjg
2019-07-27T02:52:58 < salcedo> ytimg.com is the cdn for all the video thumbnails and shiz
2019-07-27T02:53:10 < jadew> Cracki, is that the guy that killed himself with the mamba?
2019-07-27T02:53:18 < Cracki> nah, different cat guy
2019-07-27T02:53:24 < salcedo> also can watch vids at lowest resolution just fine
2019-07-27T02:53:40 < salcedo> but it's possible i need to restart browser.
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2019-07-27T02:53:59 < jadew> now I want a cat like that
2019-07-27T02:54:05 < Cracki> the one you think of, they also have a puma, but his wife keeps running their youtube and they're the ones with multiple lynxes, lynx babies, and dogs
2019-07-27T02:54:24 < Cracki> and yes he died of a mamba bite at least a year ago
2019-07-27T02:54:43 < salcedo> lynx are illegal in most us states :(
2019-07-27T02:54:55 < salcedo> which is BS imo
2019-07-27T02:54:56 < Cracki> why, they're big pussy cats
2019-07-27T02:55:08 < jadew> salcedo, so your limitation is BW or you have a data limit?
2019-07-27T02:55:09 < salcedo> but i understand why
2019-07-27T02:55:19 < Cracki> animal rights can be respected, just needs some looking after
2019-07-27T02:55:44 < Cracki> in germany keeping a big cat isn't trivial either, they wanna make sure you aren't being an idiot and get mauled one day
2019-07-27T02:55:47 < salcedo> jadew: BW mainly. i have unlimited 3G speeds but only 2GB of lte that isn't actually lte... it's only slightly faster than 3G in this area because the coverage is terrible.
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2019-07-27T02:56:24 < Cracki> tbh if women were like that puma (boy!), women would be a lot more popular
2019-07-27T02:56:32 < salcedo> have also compared the 3G cap of my hotspot vs. a smartphone with the same sim.
2019-07-27T02:56:40 < jadew> salcedo, years ago, there used to be a satellite service that worked in conjunction with dial-up
2019-07-27T02:56:51 < jadew> you would do the upload via dial-up and the download via the satellite link
2019-07-27T02:57:07 < salcedo> yeah it's expensive and not very portable
2019-07-27T02:57:10 < Cracki> I remember that! it made a lot of people quite suicidal
2019-07-27T02:57:19 < jadew> you should look into that, it could bring you back into the 21st century
2019-07-27T02:57:32 < salcedo> i am in the 21st century :)
2019-07-27T02:57:33 < jadew> Cracki, why was that?
2019-07-27T02:57:39 < salcedo> moreso than most, i think.
2019-07-27T02:57:40 < jadew> salcedo, not with that internet :)
2019-07-27T02:58:25 < salcedo> no smartphone either, what now? lel
2019-07-27T02:58:29 < jadew> haha
2019-07-27T02:58:30 < Cracki> around here, there's a residential ISP with ridic down/up ratios. they sell you 120/5 Mbit/s or something. that might be worse enough to throttle TCP from just the lack of acks
2019-07-27T02:58:50 < Cracki> dish costs money, it's got latencies that drive you mad, ...
2019-07-27T02:59:01 < jadew> salcedo, you'd think prices would be lower for something like that, considering there are so many other alternatives
2019-07-27T02:59:12 < salcedo> jadew: $10/mo
2019-07-27T02:59:22 < Cracki> *bad enough :S
2019-07-27T02:59:26 < jadew> salcedo, but that's nothing...
2019-07-27T02:59:42 < salcedo> $10/mo for unlimited internet is great. it's just shitty speeds because of where i live.
2019-07-27T03:00:05 < jadew> oh, I thought you mean the satellite thing was $10/mo
2019-07-27T03:00:16 < salcedo> no. my "lte" plan is $10/mo
2019-07-27T03:00:20 < salcedo> it's data only.
2019-07-27T03:00:38 < salcedo> took me a week to get it activated because they were like "what do you mean it's not a phone?"
2019-07-27T03:01:27 < salcedo> not buying a mobile hotspot device through the carrier you buy the service from confuses the crap out of them
2019-07-27T03:01:36 < Cracki> say "it's a tablet, ever heard of those?"
2019-07-27T03:01:44 < salcedo> no
2019-07-27T03:01:53 < salcedo> that would be "theft of services"
2019-07-27T03:02:09 < jadew> what do you mean?
2019-07-27T03:02:10 < Cracki> you live in clown world
2019-07-27T03:02:17 < salcedo> it's in their terms and conditions.
2019-07-27T03:02:18 < Cracki> how is any of that "theft"
2019-07-27T03:02:36 < jadew> salcedo, what is?
2019-07-27T03:02:40 < jadew> that you can't use it in a tablet?
2019-07-27T03:02:47 < salcedo> using the incorrect device
2019-07-27T03:02:54 < jadew> lol
2019-07-27T03:02:54 < Cracki> wtf does that even mean
2019-07-27T03:03:00 < Cracki> sue them, or shoot them
2019-07-27T03:03:04 < Cracki> fuck "incorrect device"
2019-07-27T03:03:06 < salcedo> sue a carrier?
2019-07-27T03:03:14 < Cracki> yeah why the fuck not
2019-07-27T03:03:22 < Cracki> you muricans have customer protection laws, no?
2019-07-27T03:03:37 < salcedo> with what bottomless pit of money and 50 years of litigation?
2019-07-27T03:03:38 < jadew> looks like no
2019-07-27T03:03:47 < Cracki> sue them for emotional damages or something, a billion should be good
2019-07-27T03:03:57 < jadew> you don't sue them, you just ignore them
2019-07-27T03:03:58 < Cracki> class action suit
2019-07-27T03:04:09 < jadew> can't imagine how they would enforce that without spying on you
2019-07-27T03:04:14 < jadew> which is illegal
2019-07-27T03:04:17 < salcedo> the carriers differentiate between phones, tablets, mobile hotspot devices, and throttle/cap the services differently for each of them. different plans, etc.
2019-07-27T03:04:17 < Cracki> send them bricks with notes taped to them
2019-07-27T03:04:44 < Cracki> the only way they can detect phone/tablet vs router is by inspecting TTL values
2019-07-27T03:04:48 < salcedo> it's a violation of ToS to use a device not in accordance with that device type's plan.
2019-07-27T03:04:56 < salcedo> and it's a criminal offense
2019-07-27T03:04:57 < Cracki> fuck those tossers
2019-07-27T03:05:04 < salcedo> "theft of services"
2019-07-27T03:05:05 < Cracki> that's civil law
2019-07-27T03:05:09 < Cracki> that's not theft
2019-07-27T03:05:13 < jadew> well, it kinda makes sense
2019-07-27T03:05:22 < salcedo> no, it's criminal.
2019-07-27T03:05:24 < Cracki> breaking TOS is civil code
2019-07-27T03:05:25 < salcedo> the tos violation is civil.
2019-07-27T03:05:27 < salcedo> no
2019-07-27T03:05:33 < salcedo> breaking TOS is a criminal offense in the US.
2019-07-27T03:05:35 < Cracki> there is no theft
2019-07-27T03:05:48 < jadew> Cracki, there is not theft, but yeah, you're breaking the contract
2019-07-27T03:05:49 < Cracki> who the fuck says "theft" is using something for the "wrong" purposes? that's fucking insane
2019-07-27T03:05:50 < salcedo> yes there is. you're using a service not in accordance with the terms and conditions.
2019-07-27T03:06:01 < jadew> and the rules kinda make sense from their point of view
2019-07-27T03:06:03 < Cracki> that's not what theft means
2019-07-27T03:06:05 < Cracki> wtf
2019-07-27T03:06:06 < salcedo> they don't enforce it.
2019-07-27T03:06:18 < jadew> because you're going to use less data from a phone than from a PC
2019-07-27T03:06:23 < Cracki> they can't enforce these TOS in a court either
2019-07-27T03:06:25 < Cracki> that's fucking insane
2019-07-27T03:06:27 < jadew> so they may adjust the plans
2019-07-27T03:06:36 < salcedo> Cracki: theft is whatever the carrier oligarchs define it as. they pay the lawmakers salaries.
2019-07-27T03:06:45 < Cracki> now I see your logic
2019-07-27T03:07:03 < salcedo> "clown world" not so much.
2019-07-27T03:07:11 < jadew> and I just had a deja-vu
2019-07-27T03:07:28 < salcedo> anyone who doesn't accept that congress is bought and paid for is living in the "clown world" imo
2019-07-27T03:07:50 < Cracki> brb appending a file
2019-07-27T03:08:16 < salcedo> CE is a self-cert. but i wonder about fcc cert for stm32 lora shiz
2019-07-27T03:08:24 < salcedo> need to research this
2019-07-27T03:08:43 < salcedo> the lora module is already fcc certified, but i wonder if a device it's used in also has to be certified?
2019-07-27T03:09:29 < Cracki> haha alarm clock kitteh, slimy fingers
2019-07-27T03:10:05 < Cracki> he's after the salt in the sweat, there's no love at all
2019-07-27T03:24:03 < mawk> that depends what you do with it salcedo I think
2019-07-27T03:24:19 < mawk> there are some cases where you don't need additional cert
2019-07-27T03:24:33 < salcedo> well. it's an fcc certified transceiver for ISM band. i'm using it in accordance with the fcc rules on that band...
2019-07-27T03:25:07 < salcedo> there's part 15 though.
2019-07-27T03:31:59 < jadew> another life = another braindead netflix show
2019-07-27T03:48:05 < jadew> why is everyone so quiet on a friday night?
2019-07-27T03:50:03 < salcedo> they have lives
2019-07-27T03:50:05 < salcedo> we don't
2019-07-27T03:50:12 < jadew> doubt it
2019-07-27T03:53:23 < Cracki> melting, that's why
2019-07-27T03:54:10 < Cracki> also fucking around in CAD. I've drafted a soda crate from MDF. it's for presenting the wares better. it's gonna have blinkenlights if I get around to it
2019-07-27T03:55:18 < salcedo> cad here too
2019-07-27T03:55:20 < salcedo> kicad!
2019-07-27T03:55:43 < Cracki> man that puma is slippery
2019-07-27T03:56:13 < salcedo> took a break from that loratab thing and now revising my reflow controller
2019-07-27T03:57:08 < salcedo> the 1st one is finished, and it works. still no parts yet for the physical bits
2019-07-27T03:57:18 < Cracki> the ebil nahtsees are against man/puma marriage because that'd be the end of humanity
2019-07-27T03:57:25 < Cracki> no feminist can compare to a puma
2019-07-27T03:57:39 < salcedo> another f*cking power outage
2019-07-27T03:57:43 < salcedo> 3rd one this month
2019-07-27T03:58:28 < jadew> they happen often in here too, but only on my building
2019-07-27T03:58:45 < salcedo> it's been an ongoing issue this year for some reason. whole town goes out.
2019-07-27T04:01:10 < salcedo> just calculated SLA on it is at around 96% for this month
2019-07-27T04:22:05 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_bMqnJ80Oc
2019-07-27T04:44:52 < jadew> it's hot... I'm missing a beer
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2019-07-27T05:35:38 < aandrew> jadew: dude you can get 2L bottles of beer at every corner store in Bucharest
2019-07-27T05:35:40 < aandrew> you ahve no excuse
2019-07-27T05:49:44 < bitmask> cutting acrylic to a certain shape (cloud) is a pain in the ass
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2019-07-27T05:56:03 < jadew> aandrew, it's 5 am and I'm lazy
2019-07-27T05:56:06 < jadew> but you're right
2019-07-27T05:56:12 < jadew> I might actually go to get some beer
2019-07-27T05:56:35 < jadew> oh, it's 6 am
2019-07-27T05:56:48 < jadew> maybe I should just go to sleep
2019-07-27T05:56:54 < aandrew> time for breakfast beer
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2019-07-27T06:43:38 < LikWidChz> took a guess at the channel name, anyone alive?
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2019-07-27T08:16:30 < englishman> hi
2019-07-27T08:17:21 < englishman> you did not pick the best time to ask for innovation help, but leave a message and an innovator will reply to you in due time
2019-07-27T08:18:35 < jpa-> if you were looking for crappy links instead, press 2 and we'll connect you to LB right away
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2019-07-27T09:32:12 < Thorn> l476r seems to be drop in pin compatible with l053r
2019-07-27T09:36:07 < Thorn> (well I didn't check the touch screen controller and other exotic stuff)
2019-07-27T09:36:45 < Thorn> touch sense I mean
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2019-07-27T11:21:02 < antto> jpa- LB? LoirensBee?
2019-07-27T12:02:25 < Steffanx> hello antto. hows the day
2019-07-27T12:17:26 < antto> very saturday-ish
2019-07-27T12:20:36 < Steffanx> ty
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2019-07-27T13:48:35 < superbia> hello from the shady spot
2019-07-27T13:48:46 < superbia> mountain lamb is cooking in a pot...
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2019-07-27T14:51:21 < Steffanx> we need pics superbia
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2019-07-27T15:18:22 < superbia> Steffanx: pics
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2019-07-27T15:19:58 < superbia> Steffanx: https://i.imgur.com/tXXYk86.jpg
2019-07-27T15:20:59 < Steffanx> hm
2019-07-27T15:21:02 < Steffanx> wheres the pot
2019-07-27T15:23:08 < Thorn> dragon docking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg
2019-07-27T15:26:08 < superbia> Steffanx: smoking
2019-07-27T15:26:25 < Steffanx> explains your amsterdam friend.
2019-07-27T15:27:37 < Cracki> space capsule docking is such a mating dance
2019-07-27T15:28:30 < Steffanx> Does one of them die after mating?
2019-07-27T15:29:30 < Cracki> riveting! at least the nasa logo moves
2019-07-27T15:37:05 < Cracki> zip tie cutter, huh
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2019-07-27T16:10:21 < Cracki> they should build real tentacles for this maneuver
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2019-07-27T17:50:42 < Laurenceb> Based *allows in uncontrolled immigrants from anywhere* B *bulldozes everything to build personal projects* or *increases taxes on (you)* is**
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2019-07-27T18:13:39 < mawk> security guards give me a weird look when I pay using my phone with NFC
2019-07-27T18:13:48 < mawk> like I'm hacking them
2019-07-27T18:16:03 < aandrew> the starbucks baristas are all like whoa cool when I use my watch. it's stupid how the company is making them try to be bubbly
2019-07-27T18:18:47 < qyx> is it still not mated?
2019-07-27T18:20:01 < salcedo> mawk: heh you must live in small town?
2019-07-27T18:20:51 < mawk> in Paris
2019-07-27T18:21:27 < mawk> the opposite of a small town
2019-07-27T18:22:43 < salcedo> when i used to use nfc (i don't anymore lol), i would get weird looks.
2019-07-27T18:25:58 < mawk> I had to mess around a fair bit with my phone to be able to pay with it since it's rooted
2019-07-27T18:26:40 < mawk> my bank is BNP Paribas, the one that the US inflicted a billion something fine for trading with Iran or something
2019-07-27T18:27:19 < salcedo> yep. i stopped using phone for payments and instead use the card. it has rfid in it so i can still use that if i want - bypassing the middleman.
2019-07-27T18:27:57 < mawk> the phone can pay using NFC above the maximum
2019-07-27T18:28:05 < mawk> card has 30€ maximum with contactless
2019-07-27T18:28:29 < salcedo> which is fine by me
2019-07-27T18:28:51 < salcedo> if i need to spend over that limit, insert chip.
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2019-07-27T18:35:25 < salcedo> if google/apple/samsung/verizon/whoever want my spending data, they can buy it from the payment card processors.
2019-07-27T18:35:37 < salcedo> i'm not just going to hand it over to them.
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2019-07-27T18:57:13 < mawk> I use my own bank's app for nfc pay
2019-07-27T18:57:19 < mawk> no google pay
2019-07-27T18:58:13 < Laurenceb> inb4 Borispay
2019-07-27T18:58:17 < Laurenceb> you know its coming
2019-07-27T18:58:41 < Laurenceb> inb4 Britain is renamed to Boris Island
2019-07-27T19:07:51 < scrts> wait, Yeltsin is now controlling those bellends?
2019-07-27T19:10:15 < bitmask> hah not like you can tell, but there is acrylic on both sides of the cloud: https://i.imgur.com/S71IyzO.png
2019-07-27T19:10:20 < bitmask> this should work nicely
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2019-07-27T19:30:10 < rajkosto> why did i bother making a 12V PWM RGB converter to 2812B converter
2019-07-27T19:30:14 < rajkosto> on stm32
2019-07-27T19:32:58 < scrts> zyp qyx, I've worked on DVB to IP  device: http://www.terraelectronics.com/Pub/Temp/sdi410C_sti410C_sda410C_sta410C_en.pdf
2019-07-27T19:33:08 < scrts> runs on STM32F2
2019-07-27T19:33:16 < scrts> does 72Mbps over ethernet easily
2019-07-27T19:33:32 < scrts> video packets packeting using DMA
2019-07-27T19:33:36 < scrts> it also has SDRAM attached to it
2019-07-27T19:33:53 < scrts> I've reached 90Mbps as well
2019-07-27T19:34:05 < scrts> the CPU barely does anything... fors TCP/UDP headers and that's it
2019-07-27T19:34:12 < scrts> *forms headers
2019-07-27T19:44:36 < Steffanx> cool cool scrts
2019-07-27T19:48:53 < zyp> scrts, yeah, I'd expect that to be possible
2019-07-27T19:57:50 < Laurenceb> >CNET also quotes McAfee as saying that he now wants to run simultaneous campaigns to be both president of the United States and Prime Minister of England. "I believe I am one of the few people stil alive who could qualify for the combined position."
2019-07-27T19:57:56 < aandrew> scrts: very nice
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2019-07-27T20:19:34 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/PsZ6aub.png
2019-07-27T20:19:36 < bitmask> woot
2019-07-27T20:23:22 < salcedo> bitmask:i don't understand.
2019-07-27T20:23:38 < bitmask> its gonna be an infinity mirror that tells the weather
2019-07-27T20:24:07 < salcedo> oh. i thought it was a shrine to jeff bezos.
2019-07-27T20:24:35 < bitmask> why, did I steal his cloud?
2019-07-27T20:26:15 < salcedo> THE cloud.
2019-07-27T20:26:27 < bitmask> oh
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2019-07-27T20:36:02 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45824.1220
2019-07-27T20:36:03 < Laurenceb> keek
2019-07-27T20:36:20 < Laurenceb> >In the seven or so years since the first thread was started, we're precisely in the same spot where we were before
2019-07-27T20:37:53 < Laurenceb> who could have predicted this
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2019-07-27T21:41:55 < Laurenceb> tfw you live in a reality where McAfee as combine PM and President will be less mental than current situation 
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2019-07-27T22:00:28 < Steffanx> will the 3d printed parts cover up your bad cutting/saw job, bitmask? :P
2019-07-27T22:00:41 < bitmask> haha yea
2019-07-27T22:00:57 < Steffanx> good good
2019-07-27T22:01:00 < bitmask> me needs a cnc
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2019-07-27T22:38:01 < salcedo> silicone'd up the toaster oven
2019-07-27T22:38:11 < salcedo> now just waiting until i can do next steps
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2019-07-27T22:48:21 < scrts> salcedo: you remind me the famous reebok or nike guy from Salcedo
2019-07-27T22:48:23 < scrts> seen that?
2019-07-27T22:48:23 < scrts> :D
2019-07-27T22:52:36 < aandrew> found dongs next quad: https://i.imgur.com/o0fgnIX.gifv
2019-07-27T22:53:00 < zyp> nice
2019-07-27T22:54:39 < Thorn> why separate Vdd_usb on l0/l4? is it to power usb from Vbus when it's available and the device is normally powered from a coin cell and you can't be bothered to design proper power path?
2019-07-27T22:56:37 < Cracki> a bundle of sticks?
2019-07-27T22:57:11 < Cracki> Thorn, I'd say it's to power stm from usb, or not from usb?
2019-07-27T22:57:30 < Cracki> or do you have the stm32 doing host?
2019-07-27T22:57:51 < Thorn> if you can power the whole chip from usb you don't need a separate power pin just for the usb core
2019-07-27T22:57:53 < zyp> Thorn, yeah, I think so
2019-07-27T22:58:03 < Thorn> most of these don't have host capability
2019-07-27T22:58:26 < zyp> i.e. you can keep the chip on a battery at whatever voltage, but the usb transceiver need more specific voltages so you can derive them from vbus when available
2019-07-27T22:58:46 < zyp> s/them/it/
2019-07-27T23:00:10 < zyp> I don't remember what the lower limit for Vdd is, but I guess you could also run it at like 1.8V for efficiency
2019-07-27T23:00:39 < zyp> and in that case it's probably easier to add 3.3V for USB than to switch up Vdd to 3.3V when you wanna do USB
2019-07-27T23:00:49 < Thorn> yeah the low limit for L is low but Vddusb needs to be 2.6V minimum iirc
2019-07-27T23:01:13 < zyp> I thought even more
2019-07-27T23:01:19 < zyp> like 3.0-3.3-ish
2019-07-27T23:01:24 < zyp> but sure
2019-07-27T23:01:25 < Thorn> yeah I can see how that can be useful. maybe you even have 1.8V only chips
2019-07-27T23:01:32 < zyp> yeah
2019-07-27T23:01:46 < Thorn> iirc the appnote says 3.0 is usb standard but in reality it works down to 2.6 or something like that
2019-07-27T23:01:58 < zyp> probably
2019-07-27T23:02:31 < zyp> a lot of stuff works even a bit out of spec, but that's natural given the nature of specs
2019-07-27T23:02:55 < zyp> for everything to always work as long as it's within specs, there needs to be some margins designed in
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2019-07-27T23:07:25 < Thorn> >For USB transceivers, the operating voltage ranges between 3.0 and 3.6 V.
2019-07-27T23:07:25 < Thorn> >The USB full-speed transceiver functionality is ensured down to 2.7 V
2019-07-27T23:07:29 < Thorn> AN4879
2019-07-27T23:07:48 < Thorn> I was almost correct
2019-07-27T23:09:27 < salcedo> "ensured down to 2.7 V" but isn't that no longer certifiable?
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2019-07-27T23:32:40 < karlp> stlink v3 mini looks nice.
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2019-07-27T23:34:09 < karlp> I don't get why it has a 14pin connector though
2019-07-27T23:34:19 < englishman> at least it comes with the fucking 10 pin small pitch cable
2019-07-27T23:34:20 < karlp> makes... zero sense to me.
2019-07-27T23:34:36 < englishman> maybe it does MSP too
2019-07-27T23:34:46 < karlp> msp? 430?
2019-07-27T23:34:58 < englishman> yeah
2019-07-27T23:35:03 < karlp> claims virtual comm port to 15MHz
2019-07-27T23:35:03 < englishman> MSPFET is still like $150
2019-07-27T23:35:24 < karlp> hopefully it's a new and improved implementation over what's in nucleos, that's garbage
2019-07-27T23:35:47 < karlp> application voltage supported 3-3.6V
2019-07-27T23:35:50 < karlp> that's a pretty shitty range
2019-07-27T23:36:04 < englishman> ha
2019-07-27T23:36:20 < englishman> why even bother
2019-07-27T23:36:23 < englishman> fucking ST
2019-07-27T23:36:57 < Thorn> wat? means no buffer at all?
2019-07-27T23:37:02 < karlp> yeha, gonna have to reðhrase.
2019-07-27T23:37:04 < karlp> looked good.
2019-07-27T23:37:09 < karlp> doesn't look so good anymore
2019-07-27T23:37:11 < Thorn> how about coin cell powered targers
2019-07-27T23:37:20 < englishman> <st> go fuck yourself
2019-07-27T23:37:25 < Steffanx> the rage
2019-07-27T23:37:30 < englishman> $35
2019-07-27T23:38:33 < karlp> v3mods is esigned to soldered down
2019-07-27T23:38:33 < Thorn> maybe I should donate my 74ahct245 to them, I think I have 100
2019-07-27T23:38:37 < karlp> fucking crazy
2019-07-27T23:39:01 < englishman> DRM'd stlink?
2019-07-27T23:39:06 < karlp> dont' they already sell digilet modules for that purpose, ft2232, with usb connector
2019-07-27T23:39:43 < karlp> ncie and small though, give them that
2019-07-27T23:40:24 < englishman> not even st is able to implement USBC apparently
2019-07-27T23:40:55 < karlp> SWO to 20MHZ apparently though.
2019-07-27T23:41:25 < karlp> fucking f723 for doing this.
2019-07-27T23:41:35 < karlp> surely that's gotta be overkill
2019-07-27T23:42:03 < englishman> why bother making it small
2019-07-27T23:42:09 < englishman> with that dumb breakout
2019-07-27T23:42:18 < englishman> it's a debugger
2019-07-27T23:42:32 < karlp> because it's meant to be this soldered down module apparently
2019-07-27T23:42:39 < karlp> and the cabled version is an extra bonus
2019-07-27T23:43:21 < karlp> it' slike cypress kitprog and a bunch of other things, "gotta get into this providing a usb2spi/can/i2c/gpio module cheaply tat's also a debugger, because.... reasons?"
2019-07-27T23:44:10 < englishman> i like the analog discovery
2019-07-27T23:44:13 < scrts> anyone tried cypress wiced?
2019-07-27T23:44:14 < karlp> they seem to be claiming that the normal 10 pin connector "jus fits" in the imddle pins
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2019-07-27T23:56:33 < karlp> scrts: what part of it?
2019-07-27T23:56:57 < scrts> firs, devices/hw and 2nd p stack
2019-07-27T23:56:58 < karlp> like, attached to a mciro? or using it as the target? like one of the smt32f2 parts? or just using them as a linux attached wifi device?
2019-07-27T23:57:00 < scrts> *ip stack
2019-07-27T23:58:54 < scrts> looking ino this: https://www.cypress.com/documentation/development-kitsboards/cyw954907aeval1f-evaluation-kit
2019-07-27T23:59:31 < karlp> gonna get the souvenier edition, while it's branded cypress? :)
2019-07-27T23:59:55 < scrts> I hope documentation is open enough
2019-07-27T23:59:57 < scrts> :)
2019-07-27T23:59:59 < karlp> ooh neat, r4 version
--- Day changed Sun Jul 28 2019
2019-07-28T00:00:06 < karlp> cross your fingers and pray
2019-07-28T00:00:14 < scrts> never used that
2019-07-28T00:00:26 < karlp> I'v enot used htem, but I've heard that cyrpess opened up some of them at least, better hthan broadcom
2019-07-28T00:00:26 < scrts> anything special about it?
2019-07-28T00:00:31 < karlp> but it's now been bought by infineon
2019-07-28T00:00:41 < karlp> no idea, just only knew of the m3 versions
2019-07-28T00:01:15 < karlp> I've heard there's problems with availability of quite a few of those CYW modules though, have you sorted that out already?
2019-07-28T00:03:35 < scrts> devices themselves - no, nt available
2019-07-28T00:03:38 < scrts> modules are available
2019-07-28T00:03:43 < scrts> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/murata-electronics-north-america/LBWA1UZ1GC-958/490-18185-1-ND/9817657
2019-07-28T00:03:55 < scrts> this is wih CYW43907 though
2019-07-28T00:05:15 < karlp> I feel like you should be able to get cheaper than that, but *shrugs*
2019-07-28T00:06:19 < scrts> well, for playing and not production - not much
2019-07-28T00:06:39 < scrts> I just wonder how much I can actually achieve of real bw over UDP
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2019-07-28T00:12:27 < Laurenceb> surely in thread 12 we will finally achieve a hovering emdrive
2019-07-28T00:12:53 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45824.1220
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2019-07-28T01:40:23 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXx5Qk1iP1M kakimusics timemachine
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2019-07-28T02:52:52 < Laurenceb> https://mobile.twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
2019-07-28T02:53:02 < Laurenceb> >the Jacob Reece-Mogg show is live
2019-07-28T02:53:06 < Laurenceb> I cant even right now
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2019-07-28T03:03:08 < emeb_mac> Make UK Great Again!
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2019-07-28T03:21:13 < Cracki> maybe guillotines can fix the crisis that global and many national politics are in
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2019-07-28T03:47:10 < kiki_lamb> JRM is fucking fantastic.
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2019-07-28T05:06:58 < bitmask> well lowe's didn't have mirror in a can (not rustoleum's at least) but they did still have epoxy for $4 so I picked up more :P can't go wrong with epoxy at 1/3rd normal price
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2019-07-28T06:49:58 < ColdKeyboard> WTH, nRF's SDK 15 supports nRF51 and nRF52 but there is no documentation how to use it with nRF51... wth?
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2019-07-28T07:12:02 < ohsix_> avrfreak responded today to a message i sent in 2016 to what i thought might be his email, he's still alive
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2019-07-28T07:19:02 < ohsix> was a little surreal
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2019-07-28T11:00:16 < Steffanx> Lolwut ohsix that's impossible 
2019-07-28T11:00:39 < Steffanx> That old guy must at least have died 5 years ago
2019-07-28T11:00:44 < Steffanx> If not longer ago
2019-07-28T11:04:11 < qyx> oftoppic, could anyone recommend a http sms gateway payable with paypal?
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2019-07-28T12:29:08 < jadew> qyx, how much are you willing to pay? I wanted to include that in one of my products (the original product I quit my job to work on)
2019-07-28T12:30:31 < jadew> it was only tangentially important for the market I was targeting, so I didn't look too much into it, but it was on my roadmap
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2019-07-28T12:33:08 < qyx> I was expecting less than 0.04e in the EU, which is surprisingly very hard to find
2019-07-28T12:34:01 < qyx> for 17e/mo I can get an unlimited sms plan and do my own
2019-07-28T12:34:15 < jadew> what's your volume?
2019-07-28T12:34:18 < stmucker> I don't remember who it was that suggested I use the cubemx to calculate speeds for my spi, but... THANK YOU! I mentioned I didn't have windows and someone mentioned it uses java, so I just got it, toyed with it and got hard. IT IS AMAZING!
2019-07-28T12:34:27 < qyx> alerts only, ideally 0
2019-07-28T12:34:36 < qyx> maybe up to 10 per day
2019-07-28T12:35:21 < jadew> let me check something
2019-07-28T12:35:58 < qyx> one operator here offers 0.04e/sms without any monthly plan of any kind, credit only
2019-07-28T12:38:26 < jadew> thought I already have access to something like that, but I don't, would have provided it to you for free
2019-07-28T12:40:13 < qyx> I'll probably use some mikrotik lte thing, they have CLI commands for that
2019-07-28T12:40:22 < qyx> or openwrt with gammu or what
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2019-07-28T12:54:59 < Steffanx> qyx: Better check if that service allows you for automated services. I recall it often not being allowed here.
2019-07-28T12:55:21 < Steffanx> not that they'll find out quickly, but would be sad if they did and block you.
2019-07-28T12:56:31 < qyx> meh, good point
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2019-07-28T13:19:18 < stmucker> yeeeeHAW! While I didn't use the exact code that cubemx made me (eg, I had to make spi 2edge instead of 1edge), I'm getting 100% accuracy in a spam test I did using stty and hexdump. Thanks to all with your input (especially you canton7, willing to take a look at garbage code)
2019-07-28T13:20:11 < stmucker> cubemx is a magnificent tool. I got to the point where (before using it) where I added usbd code so I could change speeds on the fly. It would've taken way longer that way.
2019-07-28T13:31:30 < Steffanx> At least someone happy with the shit the cube³ generates
2019-07-28T13:41:59 < stmucker> Uhh, looks like I spoke too soon. The response from the spi AVR is simply repeating back to me what I sent to it, rather than shifting the response over (eg, 0xAC530000 should come back as 0x??AC5300)... more testing...
2019-07-28T13:43:43 < catphish> how does -1 % 30== 7, losing my mind a little here
2019-07-28T13:44:33 < catphish> and similarly 6 % 30 == 3
2019-07-28T13:44:44 < catphish> either my compiler forgot how to maths or i did
2019-07-28T13:47:12 < catphish> fixed, turns out mixing signed and unsigned in modulo produces unexpected results
2019-07-28T13:47:25 < catphish> (signed char)30 works much better
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2019-07-28T13:52:45 < catphish> still can't quite get it working sanely :(
2019-07-28T14:10:20 < jadew> it probably converts -1 to an unsigned short
2019-07-28T14:10:31 < jadew> (for some reason)
2019-07-28T14:11:11 < jadew> wait, that doesn't work
2019-07-28T14:11:45 < jadew> it overflows, but I don't know how
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2019-07-28T14:25:10 < Thorn> why so many incompatible µUSB footprints :/
2019-07-28T14:25:35 < Steffanx> incompatible with...?
2019-07-28T14:25:57 < Thorn> each other
2019-07-28T14:26:15 < Steffanx> oh
2019-07-28T14:27:24 < Thorn> China even sells sets for repair people https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32868814865.html
2019-07-28T14:28:04 < Steffanx> ah yes was tempted to buy one once
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2019-07-28T16:59:08 < catphish> jadew: thanks, i gave up worrying about it for now, will just use some if statements to solve the problem :)
2019-07-28T16:59:54 < catphish> now trying to get my PWM working, it's always a hassle, timer is running, port is enabled and configured for AF, but no PWM is happening :)
2019-07-28T17:00:21 < catphish> all the pins are still just high (or floating, my LA pulls them high)
2019-07-28T17:03:30 < catphish> and fixed, didn't set BDTR->MOE
2019-07-28T17:14:55 < englishman> qyx: have you looked at hologram.io
2019-07-28T17:15:33 < englishman> incoming sms are free
2019-07-28T17:18:39 < salcedo> ugh. very shitty website.
2019-07-28T17:18:54 < salcedo> possibly readibly in elinks
2019-07-28T17:20:19 < salcedo> :( very difficult to follow
2019-07-28T17:27:05 < salcedo> usually poorly designed sites won't render well at all when ublock is blocking 90% or more of the requests.
2019-07-28T17:27:17 < salcedo> this hologram.io is still completely unusable while only blocking 28% of requests
2019-07-28T17:28:45 < salcedo> i don't get warm fuzzies when a company selling IoT network connectivity has a website that is only usable if you download 200MB of javashit
2019-07-28T17:29:05 < salcedo> and ofc it's a .io
2019-07-28T17:29:14 < salcedo> and "we have a REST API"
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2019-07-28T17:31:20 < salcedo> pretty much all iot plans on all other carriers have free sms capability.
2019-07-28T17:32:56 < Thorn> what are you talking about, my react dev tools icon didn't even light up
2019-07-28T17:35:07 < salcedo> it's WP on wpengine
2019-07-28T17:35:29 < salcedo> loads 18 external js (at least)
2019-07-28T17:35:54 < Thorn> chrome says 48
2019-07-28T17:36:29 < salcedo> i only counted occurances of "text/javascript" in output from curl https://hologram.io
2019-07-28T17:40:22 < englishman> works on my machine
2019-07-28T17:42:20 < Thorn> .pro
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2019-07-28T18:39:20 < kakimir> still ass sweating hot in there?
2019-07-28T18:41:18 < PaulFertser> kakimir: do not ride without proper protective gear
2019-07-28T18:41:35 < kakimir> guy on a custom did one better
2019-07-28T18:41:40 < kakimir> without shirt
2019-07-28T18:42:47 < PaulFertser> kakimir: I've seen a guy today riding with a passenger without helmet. When when I overtook them he decided to speed up to keep up with me :(
2019-07-28T18:43:15 < Cracki> passengers are just dead weight eh
2019-07-28T18:43:20 < kakimir> they died?
2019-07-28T18:43:27 < Cracki> they probably wanted to
2019-07-28T18:43:55 < kakimir> riding without helmet is not a thing
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2019-07-28T18:49:11 < PaulFertser> kakimir: no, nothing happened to them, at least not within the few minutes till we parted our ways.
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2019-07-28T19:07:55 < Steffanx> i guess kakimir didnt watch enjoy on that gore website. or he wants to be on it.
2019-07-28T19:08:11 < Steffanx> enjoy = enough. Why did i write enjoy.
2019-07-28T19:08:34 < englishman> proper protective gear = t shirt and flip flops
2019-07-28T19:08:44 < Steffanx> yeah
2019-07-28T19:09:27 < englishman> im doing this quote for this dude, it's an interesting project but he's super clueless
2019-07-28T19:09:47 < englishman> so i doubled all the numbers to take into account the inevitable changes he will demand and it's still not enough
2019-07-28T19:09:59 < englishman> time to go to triple overtime
2019-07-28T19:10:39 < Steffanx> yay.
2019-07-28T19:13:09 < englishman> whoa
2019-07-28T19:13:11 < englishman> altium 20 out
2019-07-28T19:14:05 < Steffanx> englishman will not write what he will do down on paper? And point to that when the guy changes his demands?
2019-07-28T19:14:23 < englishman> i never learn
2019-07-28T19:14:36 < Steffanx> i see
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2019-07-28T20:02:02 < Laurenceb> gore posters need to be locked up
2019-07-28T20:02:14 < Laurenceb> and in UK they probably will be lol
2019-07-28T20:06:09 < Mangy_Dog> actually in the UK yeah i think its illegal
2019-07-28T20:13:02 < Laurenceb> https://mobile.twitter.com/MPSWForest/status/1155426867861757952?p=v
2019-07-28T20:13:06 < Laurenceb> as are most things
2019-07-28T20:19:23 < Laurenceb> soon we will go to prison for unapproved pronz
2019-07-28T20:19:37 < Laurenceb> if they ever sort out the licensing shit with mindgeek
2019-07-28T20:31:12 < salcedo> we just need to go back to gopher and usenet
2019-07-28T20:31:33 < salcedo> lora gopher/nntp darknet ftw
2019-07-28T20:33:09 < salcedo> meshed rip graphics memes flying all around
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2019-07-28T20:39:05 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/i/moments/1155458847064186880
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2019-07-28T20:41:14 < Laurenceb> >There is footage going round of a  woman abusing marchers at Waltham Forest Pride yesterday. Please do not perpetuate Islamophobia
2019-07-28T20:41:47 < Mangy_Dog> i was at norwich pride eysterday
2019-07-28T20:41:58 < Mangy_Dog> and i saw some homophobic tweets about it
2019-07-28T20:42:14 < Laurenceb> let me guess you are a furry?
2019-07-28T20:42:18 < Mangy_Dog> "fucking disguisting should not be allowed in the town centre
2019-07-28T20:42:20 < Mangy_Dog> i am yes
2019-07-28T20:42:25 < Laurenceb> oh shit
2019-07-28T20:42:31 < Laurenceb> now the name makes sense
2019-07-28T20:42:34 < Laurenceb> oh dear
2019-07-28T20:43:29 < Laurenceb> https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/index.php?title=Furries&redirect=no
2019-07-28T20:44:01 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2019-07-28T20:44:08 < Mangy_Dog> sorry im disguisting
2019-07-28T20:44:32 < Laurenceb> oh my god https://mobile.twitter.com/norwichfurmeets
2019-07-28T20:44:42 < Laurenceb> he is telling the truth I fear
2019-07-28T20:45:10 < Mangy_Dog> im not part of the community :p
2019-07-28T20:45:16 < Laurenceb> https://mobile.twitter.com/NorwichFurmeets/media/grid?idx=0
2019-07-28T20:45:24 < Laurenceb> we know you are one of them, come on, own up
2019-07-28T20:46:50 < Mangy_Dog> im genuingly not :(
2019-07-28T20:49:08 < salcedo> humans are mammals, therefore all humans are furries - unless they self-identify as a reptilian shape shifter like Laurenceb 
2019-07-28T20:49:59 < Laurenceb> imagine being this new
2019-07-28T20:50:33 < Laurenceb> ywlts ##stm32 turn into a furry channel
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2019-07-28T20:51:55 < Cracki> :3
2019-07-28T20:52:24 < salcedo> Laurenceb: wtf do you think the "F" stands for in the mainstream stm32 series?
2019-07-28T20:52:37 < Laurenceb> keeek
2019-07-28T20:52:56 < salcedo> thuogh i'm guessing you use the L series because lizard
2019-07-28T20:53:28 < salcedo> ultra-low-power because cold blooded
2019-07-28T20:55:58 < salcedo> G series LQFPs pins turn rainbow during reflow. It's the pride series.
2019-07-28T20:57:05 < Laurenceb> so many homos in the channel
2019-07-28T20:57:21 < Laurenceb> at this rate I will convert to Islam
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2019-07-28T21:08:48 < Steffanx> What country are you from mr salcedo?
2019-07-28T21:14:40 < Laurenceb> http://magaimg.net/img/8kn1.jpg
2019-07-28T21:15:19 < kakimir> lurencer
2019-07-28T21:18:48 < Steffanx> Each time you disappoint me again Laurenceb. Each time I hope you moved on.
2019-07-28T21:19:25 < kakimir> stop hoping
2019-07-28T21:19:39 < kakimir> it's well beyond cronical now
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2019-07-28T21:20:10 < salcedo> cronical... new word.
2019-07-28T21:20:16 < Laurenceb> shitpostitus
2019-07-28T21:20:31 < Steffanx> chronicle ?
2019-07-28T21:20:42 < kakimir> paskapostaus lurencer
2019-07-28T21:20:51 < kakimir> paska = shit
2019-07-28T21:20:58 < kakimir> learn your finnish
2019-07-28T21:22:23 < kakimir> * lurencer condition is well beyond cronic now *
2019-07-28T21:23:59 < salcedo> more insulation on the reflow oven. taking my time.
2019-07-28T21:24:08 < Steffanx> no pic blog salcedo?
2019-07-28T21:24:19 < salcedo> Steffanx: i have a "blog" but i don't post to it much
2019-07-28T21:24:46 < Steffanx> and you dont take pics during the insulation process?
2019-07-28T21:24:50 < Steffanx> ating
2019-07-28T21:24:50 < salcedo> so far i have silicone applied, and some reflective barrier and tape partially done
2019-07-28T21:25:00 < salcedo> no not really
2019-07-28T21:25:15 < salcedo> i can go take a pic of where it's at right now
2019-07-28T21:28:37 < Steffanx> hm
2019-07-28T21:29:32 < salcedo> i thnk i have pics of the controller i made for it too
2019-07-28T21:30:54 < salcedo> https://postimg.cc/sG1kymYj
2019-07-28T21:30:55 < Steffanx> It's an upgrade toaster oven right?
2019-07-28T21:31:24 < salcedo> the pcbs are just backplanes for wemos d1 mini, an oled, some buttons, terminal blocks for hooking up relays and thermocouple
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2019-07-28T21:33:00 < Steffanx> *upgraded
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2019-07-28T21:34:36 < Steffanx> ive seen that pic before 
2019-07-28T21:35:11 < kakimir> yet another welder controller
2019-07-28T21:35:20 < Steffanx> welder?
2019-07-28T21:37:07 < kakimir> what it looks like
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2019-07-28T21:44:55 < Laurenceb> https://www.intellihub.com/boeing-mh370-disappearance-made-illuminati-member-jacob-rothschild-sole-owner-of-major-semi-conductor-patent/
2019-07-28T21:45:39 < Laurenceb> >Kinetis KL03 32 KB Flash. 48 MHz Cortex-M0+ Based Microcontroller
2019-07-28T21:45:41 < Laurenceb> keeek
2019-07-28T21:48:49 < kakimir> don't put all the eggs in same plane
2019-07-28T21:50:40 < Laurenceb> Rothschild lizard illuminati microcontroller
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2019-07-28T21:51:33 < kakimir> cortex-m0+ based microcontroller must be something to kill for
2019-07-28T21:51:46 < salcedo> Laurenceb: it IS green
2019-07-28T21:52:53 < salcedo> https://postimg.cc/5HX3grSS
2019-07-28T21:55:33 < Laurenceb> nice
2019-07-28T21:56:08 < salcedo> walmart $20
2019-07-28T21:56:09 < salcedo> lelz
2019-07-28T21:56:20 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMMJ2Dgkrm0
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2019-07-28T22:04:40 < salcedo> captain planet! he's our hero! gonna take pollution down to zero!
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2019-07-28T22:21:04 < Cracki> does english have a special word for those square-kilometer-large lakes that result from flooding empty open-pit mines?
2019-07-28T22:21:26 < salcedo> reserviors?
2019-07-28T22:21:43 < salcedo> aquaduct?
2019-07-28T22:21:58 < Cracki> germans just call them Baggersee (excavator lake)
2019-07-28T22:22:11 < salcedo> there are probably multiple words for them because the US has different dialects
2019-07-28T22:22:20 < Cracki> not talking about some puny ponds, but those that displaced whole towns
2019-07-28T22:22:29 < salcedo> around here they are called reserviors (sp)
2019-07-28T22:22:43 < Cracki> does murica even have such large open pit mines, and do they intentionally flood them?
2019-07-28T22:22:58 < salcedo> sometimes
2019-07-28T22:23:21 < Cracki> reservoir implies to me that it's intended as drinking water, so intentionally kept rather "sterile"
2019-07-28T22:23:23 < salcedo> an open pit mine = quarry here
2019-07-28T22:23:30 < Cracki> Baggerseen are renatured(?)
2019-07-28T22:23:57 < Cracki> i.e. plants and fish in the water as well as around it
2019-07-28T22:23:59 < salcedo> not necessarily for drinking
2019-07-28T22:24:10 < salcedo> but we have some old quarries here that they filled with water and turned into fishing spots
2019-07-28T22:24:26 < salcedo> also we have reserviors for drinking water everywhere - which also double as fishing spots. it's permitted.
2019-07-28T22:24:52 < Cracki> huh
2019-07-28T22:25:05 < salcedo> yea lol i can walk literally 100ft from my house and go fishing at one
2019-07-28T22:25:37 < salcedo> no swimming or boating allowed but you can fish
2019-07-28T22:25:50 < salcedo> it's about 1/8 the size of the town
2019-07-28T22:26:06 < salcedo> 1/3 of the town is a factory
2019-07-28T22:26:15 < salcedo> that's how big the factory is
2019-07-28T22:26:32 < salcedo> they even have a conveyer system between buildings that goes over a main road
2019-07-28T22:26:55 < salcedo> and if you don't work there making $12/hr, you're a loser.
2019-07-28T22:27:10 < salcedo> and nobody in the town will even look at you. you're like a pariah
2019-07-28T22:27:31 < salcedo> it's like a cult
2019-07-28T22:48:20 < qyx> Cracki: we call them strkoviska
2019-07-28T22:48:43 < Cracki> lovely
2019-07-28T22:48:52 < qyx> strk is a gravel
2019-07-28T22:49:09 < qyx> but idk in en
2019-07-28T22:49:14 < Cracki> I'm trying to find out where the owners of that puma are moving to. they showed some really nice views of the new house and surroundings, but all in russian
2019-07-28T22:49:16 < qyx> heh baggersee
2019-07-28T22:49:44 < Cracki> place looks very constructed, all the water line
2019-07-28T23:18:57 < Laurenceb> Illuminati
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2019-07-28T23:51:48 < karlp> qyx: twilio/nexmo? euro countries are different pr5ices for some reason, even though eu roaming should have made taht all flat.
2019-07-28T23:52:07 < karlp> you caan get a lot cheaper ith bulk accounts, but pay as you go is between 1-8cents/message
2019-07-28T23:52:31 < karlp> salcedo: I had a thought as to why you were getting things working for your spi transfers with "only one" when using hal.
2019-07-28T23:53:19 < karlp> if you had the fifo on, which is probably default, your single transfer woudl hhave done the register to read, padded with zeros, resulting in two bytes transferred, so  you got the response in the lower bits of the reply, without having to really think about it?
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--- Day changed Mon Jul 29 2019
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2019-07-29T00:08:59 < kakimir> Laurenceb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB4Lw6f7lcE
2019-07-29T00:20:06 < Cracki> lol
2019-07-29T00:31:04 < salcedo> karlp: hmm.. turning a fifo off could be all that is needed?
2019-07-29T00:31:21 < Cracki> can someone point this angry foreigner guy at germany please
2019-07-29T00:31:30 < salcedo> karlp: i thought qyx had established that "datz just wut it is" on stm32l4
2019-07-29T00:32:03 < salcedo> using send8/read8 was the way to do it because SPI_DR acts like a fifo indeed. SPI_DR8 does not.
2019-07-29T00:32:44 < salcedo> the first 4 transfers wolud return 0x12, 0x00, 0x12, 0x00... then all transfers after that are 0x12
2019-07-29T00:33:00 < salcedo> almost like it's a 16 bit fifo that gets staggered. then filled up all the way
2019-07-29T00:34:20 < qyx> it is explained in the RM
2019-07-29T00:34:34 < qyx> you have to make a 8bit write/read to do a 8bit write/read
2019-07-29T00:34:47 < qyx> otherwise 16bits are processed
2019-07-29T00:35:10 < qyx> iirc
2019-07-29T00:35:43 < Cracki> >you have to do X to do X
2019-07-29T00:35:52 < Cracki> that... makes sense
2019-07-29T00:36:38 < salcedo> you have to have work experience to get a job to get work experience.
2019-07-29T00:37:01 < kakimir> catch 22
2019-07-29T00:37:02 < salcedo> also a macbook pro.
2019-07-29T00:37:13 < salcedo> and you have to eat croutons dipped in guacamole
2019-07-29T00:37:59 < Cracki> the only way to do X is to actually do X. all Y that aren't X are not "doing X"
2019-07-29T00:38:20 < Cracki> that feels a little like expressions in formal logic
2019-07-29T00:38:51 < salcedo> https://sabra.com/on-the-go/guacamole/sabra-breakfast-avocado-toast.html
2019-07-29T00:39:37 < Cracki> >'hold my avocado' memes
2019-07-29T00:39:48 < salcedo> i have a whole shipment of these and i spraypainted my thinkpad silver and put an apple logo sticker on it. gotta look the part if i'm going to get interviews
2019-07-29T00:41:15 < salcedo> carrying around avocado croutons and a spraypainted-to-look-like-macbook thinkpad is good camouflage 
2019-07-29T00:41:45 < karlp> salcedo: yes, I was just trying to help understand why it "worked with only one transfer" when you were using hal
2019-07-29T00:42:30 < salcedo> the HAL code is conditional
2019-07-29T00:42:38 < karlp> conditional on what?
2019-07-29T00:43:04 < salcedo> there is some conditional in the spi transmit/receive functions that looks if it is 16 or 8 bit
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2019-07-29T01:30:33 < karlp> based on what?
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2019-07-29T01:59:59 < Laurenceb> Imagine the autism https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkACollett/status/1155473463752167424
2019-07-29T02:00:08 < Laurenceb> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/EC36/production/_89807406_5e1f6985-bfb9-4115-b2ca-b7628cb7cc53.jpg
2019-07-29T02:01:19 < salcedo> We've detected that JavaScript is disabled in your browser. Would you like to proceed to legacy Twitter?
2019-07-29T02:01:25 < Laurenceb> kekk
2019-07-29T02:01:39 < Laurenceb> the absolute state of neo-twitter
2019-07-29T02:01:50 < salcedo> it's cool that they have a legacy twitter tho
2019-07-29T02:02:01 < Laurenceb> yeah
2019-07-29T02:02:22 < specing> and legacy twitter is nothing more than their mobile site
2019-07-29T02:02:45 < salcedo> it's still fully functional with low bandwidth too
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2019-07-29T08:17:47 < ohsix> Steffanx: https://i.imgur.com/BzYhNzO.png
2019-07-29T08:18:37 < ohsix> qyx: does the paypal thing rule out twilio?
2019-07-29T08:23:35 < ohsix> ugh too much slack, automatically assumed nobody had logs for older messages olol. i don't remember where i found the email but i probably said something at the time
2019-07-29T08:35:46 < ohsix> like i never left 22:35 < dugz:##electronics> my friend told me that anyone that took a quaalude and drank beer wrecked their car
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2019-07-29T08:56:36 < ohsix> what's the common name for bearings with a groove around the circumference, guide bearing? guide roller?
2019-07-29T08:59:19 < ohsix> oh dang nevermind, completely blanked on bearings having semi standard part numbers
2019-07-29T09:27:24 < ohsix>  /m ##electronics hm what do you need to prepare the samples? like bugz need to be metallized and stuff, not really heard anyone describe that part
2019-07-29T09:27:27 < ohsix> oops
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2019-07-29T10:18:07 < ohsix> re: bearing question, mcmaster calls them track rollers https://www.mcmaster.com/track-rollers
2019-07-29T10:18:25 < ohsix> need cheap-o ones for a crappy wire forming machine \m/
2019-07-29T10:20:51 < ohsix> it's a lot of work to make something crappy, so you need the most marginal parts
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2019-07-29T11:59:36 < vasvasvas> Hello guys! What will happen if the FreeRTOS timer callback's execution time is greater than timer period? 
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2019-07-29T12:01:03 < jpa-> https://www.freertos.org/FreeRTOS_Support_Forum_Archive/October_2017/freertos_Why_timer_callback_function_should_never_attempt_to_block_2c2b45fej.html   suggests that further invokations will be delayed until the callback returns
2019-07-29T12:01:04 < vasvasvas> timer is in auto-reload mode.
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2019-07-29T12:15:40 < Steffanx> Ty
2019-07-29T12:16:06 < jly> no worries mate
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2019-07-29T12:16:50 < Steffanx> So what is jpa-  up to these days?
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2019-07-29T12:21:59 < ohsix> hrmph nobody would happen to know what kind of cavity and aperature you'd need to get a 180 degree radiation pattern from a flat speaker
2019-07-29T12:22:39 < ohsix> something that's just a hole will be almost 180 but not quite
2019-07-29T12:23:03 < Steffanx> jly: this is your time to help
2019-07-29T12:23:55 < jly> i could ask someone on the other side of the planet
2019-07-29T12:24:35 < Steffanx> You are on the other side of the planet
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2019-07-29T12:25:44 < ohsix> hmmm http://i-simpa.ifsttar.fr/presentation/features0/
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2019-07-29T14:22:42 < dongs> https://brevzin.github.io/c++/2019/07/28/comparisons-cpp20/ zyp must be fucking happy
2019-07-29T14:22:57 < dongs> this is some insane faggotry right there
2019-07-29T14:24:24 < zyp> what part of it?
2019-07-29T14:24:54 < zyp> I've seen talk about the comparison operator before, but I haven't paid much attention to it
2019-07-29T14:26:29 < dongs> all of it, the entire blog post is pretty disgusting
2019-07-29T14:26:58 < dongs> i read small section about <=> and thought hey, they've basically introduecd strcmp() results for a comparsion, nice
2019-07-29T14:27:05 < dongs> then the shit got really crazy
2019-07-29T14:27:52 < zyp> glancing through it, I think the tl;dr is that when you define operator<=>, you get all the other ordering operators implicitly
2019-07-29T14:28:06 < dongs> thats the 1st part
2019-07-29T14:28:11 < zyp> instead of having to define <, >, <= and >= separately
2019-07-29T14:28:11 < dongs> the 2nd part is where itgets gay
2019-07-29T14:28:19 < zyp> okay, haven't gotten that far yet
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2019-07-29T14:41:31 < zyp> the tl;dr of the second part seems to be "even though the secondary operators are not reversible, the primary operators are, so you'll also get the reversed secondary operators implicitly from the reversed primary"
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2019-07-29T15:07:44 < PaulFertser> Easily. Having no clue is easy.
2019-07-29T15:09:00 < Steffanx> you mean more features you wont use
2019-07-29T15:09:07 < Steffanx> or maybe once, to play with it and then forget about it
2019-07-29T15:10:26 < PaulFertser> Many embedded developers have a very different mindset. They're not into programming at all. They do not want (and often do not really need) to invest in learning programming, they'd be happy with a macro-assembler level of abstractions.
2019-07-29T15:10:26 < PaulFertser> Same with hw designers using VHDL and Verilog.
2019-07-29T15:13:26 < PaulFertser> Haohmaru: C has the right level of abstractions (and hence, complexity) for them. And for many real-life tasks that's actually enough, the hard problems lie elsewhere.
2019-07-29T15:14:10 < PaulFertser> Haohmaru: in the case they really need something fancier they'll just implement an ad-hoc C code generator.
2019-07-29T15:15:52 < Steffanx> Yeah, c++ will stop you from wiring very_nasty.cpp
2019-07-29T15:15:58 < PaulFertser> Haohmaru: I guess C++ is great for the cases when you already know enough of C++ (due to being CS geek, or being involved in high-performance computing and some such) and you decided to apply your skills to embedded.
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2019-07-29T15:16:37 < Steffanx> When we'll see your awesome c++ code Haohmaru?
2019-07-29T15:16:55 < PaulFertser> Haohmaru: but expecting electronics folks to use C++ in any sane way (arduino is not one of them of course) would be just silly.
2019-07-29T15:16:58 < Steffanx> i want to learn from the master :P
2019-07-29T15:17:25 < Steffanx> C++ == awesome.
2019-07-29T15:19:34 < PaulFertser> Apparently real life often requires something really different; we have examples of people having no proper understanding of both EE and CS still implementing plenty of useful and successful projects (and I'm not talking about "makers" here). 
2019-07-29T15:19:39 < Steffanx> and you used it on xmega Haohmaru?
2019-07-29T15:21:32 < Steffanx> hm
2019-07-29T15:23:54 < Steffanx> Did you at least overload the ++ operator to make it do nothing?
2019-07-29T15:23:59 < Steffanx> otherwise its not fancy c++
2019-07-29T15:25:54 < Steffanx> Do you also tempate the shit out of your code Haohmaru?
2019-07-29T15:26:04 < Steffanx> or more in your code, not out.
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2019-07-29T15:28:07 < jpa-> Steffanx: nothing much
2019-07-29T15:32:31 < superbia> g'day gentlemen
2019-07-29T15:33:19 < Steffanx> Welcome sir. How's greece today
2019-07-29T15:34:11 < superbia> watching inovating chillex vids
2019-07-29T15:34:24 < superbia> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mW4xD5QGUE
2019-07-29T15:35:03 < Steffanx> fancy
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2019-07-29T15:41:04 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: you know C++ is good even without complicated template tricks. constexpr becomes more powerful with each release, plus proper functions instead of macros, plus stronger type guarantees (including physical units, should one need that), stuff like that.
2019-07-29T15:41:51 < Steffanx> Yeah, totally agree PaulFertser.
2019-07-29T15:44:56 < mawk> still using the c preprocessor
2019-07-29T15:45:00 < mawk> all arguments are invalid
2019-07-29T15:45:19 < PaulFertser> I'd really like to get somehow involved in some Rust cortex-m project though, should be more interesting than digging C++. Alas, when there was a chance my coworkers refused and I didn't want to feel lonely.
2019-07-29T15:46:30 < superbia> if you ever feel like hanging yourself PaulFertser you are free to use nim
2019-07-29T15:47:08 < Steffanx> Arent you here to prevent him from haning himself? You are mr Nim to me.
2019-07-29T15:48:09 < superbia> Steffanx: documentation is excellent http://blueeyes.sakura.ne.jp/2018/05/22/1243/
2019-07-29T15:48:25 < superbia> http://tattakaaqua.hatenablog.com/entry/2017/12/07/000000
2019-07-29T15:49:06 < mawk> google japanese to french translation isn’t that great
2019-07-29T15:49:16 < Steffanx> ty superbia. Helpfu
2019-07-29T15:49:18 < Steffanx> l
2019-07-29T15:49:31 < superbia> helpfu indeed
2019-07-29T15:50:22 < superbia> bbl, gotta nap before can anwser all your questions
2019-07-29T15:52:50 < salcedo> lol that's me PaulFertser
2019-07-29T15:53:04 < salcedo> no proper understanding of EE and CS
2019-07-29T15:53:36 < Steffanx> and whats your background?
2019-07-29T15:53:38 < Steffanx> CS or EE?
2019-07-29T15:53:40 < Steffanx> or pyhsics.
2019-07-29T15:53:54 < salcedo> no background
2019-07-29T15:53:57 < salcedo> no job history
2019-07-29T15:54:04 < Steffanx> i see
2019-07-29T15:54:20 < salcedo> no college degrees (i did go to a vocational school for 2 years but didn't finish)
2019-07-29T15:54:27 < salcedo> it was a community college
2019-07-29T15:55:13 < Steffanx> Will you soon tell use all about your drug history and fights with your girlfriend? You'll be the new rob235 (aka bitmask) :P
2019-07-29T15:55:37 < salcedo> when i was teen/early 20's i worked at an electronics manufacturing shop doing hand soldering and operating wave soldering machine and helping with debugging eeproms
2019-07-29T15:55:55 < salcedo> then i went to prison for the rest of my 20's
2019-07-29T15:56:47 < salcedo> in there i was a tig welder. a lot of stainless steel kitchen stuff and fabrication because the prison gets the labor and materials at a huge premium
2019-07-29T15:56:58 < salcedo> got out, went to school for welding technology but never finished.
2019-07-29T15:57:29 < salcedo> was top of the class, the school sent me to interviews at local companies.
2019-07-29T15:57:51 < salcedo> because we just came out of recession and they knew i was a felon, nobody would offer me more than $11-12/hr
2019-07-29T15:58:22 < salcedo> so i became a freelance devops retard
2019-07-29T15:58:34 < salcedo> been making minimum wage or less doing that ever since
2019-07-29T16:00:36 < salcedo> random bouts of homelessness or crashing with family/friends in various places while i hunt for a "real job" throughout the years
2019-07-29T16:00:52 < mawk> the felony record never clears in the us ?
2019-07-29T16:00:53 < salcedo> i get interviews, they find out i'm a piece of shit, denied.
2019-07-29T16:01:03 < mawk> here employers can’t ask for felony record unless it’s a sensitive jobg
2019-07-29T16:01:38 < salcedo> eventually i started getting bitter
2019-07-29T16:01:57 < zyp> what was the felony?
2019-07-29T16:02:24 < salcedo> i typed shit on a keyboard.
2019-07-29T16:03:03 < salcedo> it was really stupid. and i p much fucked my whole life
2019-07-29T16:04:26 < salcedo> i do my own shit, as always. just no more stupid.
2019-07-29T16:04:59 < salcedo> approaching 20 years in the past. it's funny how people are unwilling to let the past be the past.
2019-07-29T16:05:13 < salcedo> i live life like that whole part is a distant closed book.
2019-07-29T16:05:23 < salcedo> employers? nope.
2019-07-29T16:05:42 < zyp> also the whole punishment vs reform shit
2019-07-29T16:05:48 < Steffanx> " typed shit on a keyboard." better leave ##stm32 then. Youll be in the logs together with the other shit typers :P
2019-07-29T16:05:56 < salcedo> Steffanx: :)
2019-07-29T16:06:19 < salcedo> this channel is one big typist conspiracy.
2019-07-29T16:06:33 < Steffanx> Sometimes, absolutely.
2019-07-29T16:06:33 < salcedo> organized, even.
2019-07-29T16:06:37 < salcedo> stm32 mafia
2019-07-29T16:06:38 < zyp> but really, you typed shit and got years in prison?
2019-07-29T16:06:47 < zyp> that's some hardcore shittyping
2019-07-29T16:06:55 < mawk> lol
2019-07-29T16:07:07 < mawk> if you type « let’s kill the president » it’s enough
2019-07-29T16:07:28 < zyp> mawk, now you're on a list
2019-07-29T16:07:35 < mawk> :(
2019-07-29T16:07:37 < Steffanx> Especially if you use «  »  mawk. It's breivik style.
2019-07-29T16:08:24 < Steffanx> Ive only see one other norwegian use it and he's in ##stm32 too.
2019-07-29T16:08:35 < zyp> sup?
2019-07-29T16:08:35 < Steffanx> *seen
2019-07-29T16:08:46 < Steffanx> hi zyp
2019-07-29T16:08:55 < salcedo> zyp: hardcore hax0ring!
2019-07-29T16:09:30 < Steffanx> :)
2019-07-29T16:09:58 < salcedo> yea that's why i go off on rants and shit about neuralink and other stupid stuff sometimes.
2019-07-29T16:10:15 < salcedo> my brain is just wired different from not-sane life experience.
2019-07-29T16:11:20 < salcedo> the human race is being diverged into two different primary species.
2019-07-29T16:17:33 < karlp> here you go again :)
2019-07-29T16:26:49 < Steffanx> Also a good day to you karlp
2019-07-29T16:27:21 < englishman> good afternoon innovators
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2019-07-29T16:38:08 < Steffanx> Workday done Haohmaru?
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2019-07-29T16:39:40 < Steffanx> is this the kicad rap?
2019-07-29T16:40:06 < bitmask> alright, just sprayed mirror in a can on the cloud, this is the back (sprayed side) https://i.imgur.com/YuFhPC2.png
2019-07-29T16:41:20 < bitmask> I hope I didn't spray the first layer to thick, I may just take a look at the mirror side now
2019-07-29T16:46:38 < karlp> Steffanx: thanks. back iin the big smoke again.
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2019-07-29T16:52:36 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/eD0Zpl2.png
2019-07-29T16:52:38 < bitmask> it wants to work but thats not good enough :(
2019-07-29T16:52:42 < bitmask> gonna have to redo this
2019-07-29T16:53:48 < mawk> what is the coating ?
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2019-07-29T17:39:28 < aandrew> bitmask: that's a neat effect
2019-07-29T17:40:43 -!- drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-07-29T17:43:24 < bitmask> I used rustoleum mirror effect but its not very shiny, its a bit too dull for this.  I just tried applying a layer of one way mirror film on top so when that dries i'll see if thats reflective enough
2019-07-29T18:00:53 < bitmask> haha no it isnt, it wont be a rainbow for normal use, just made it colorful for testing
2019-07-29T18:02:22 < bitmask> here we go
2019-07-29T18:02:36 < bitmask> the led strip isn't straight but much better (and more) reflections: https://i.imgur.com/sbZUXhK.png
2019-07-29T18:14:46 < aandrew> ahh infinite mirror thing
2019-07-29T18:15:51 < superbia> when people have too much spare time on their hands
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2019-07-29T18:18:18 < Steffanx> How is your time in greece spend superbia?
2019-07-29T18:18:25 < Steffanx> die hard work coding all day long?
2019-07-29T18:18:31 < superbia> bloggin
2019-07-29T18:18:39 < mawk> dying from heat
2019-07-29T18:18:59 < superbia> is like naps&blogs
2019-07-29T18:19:01 < Steffanx> Yeh, very well spend.
2019-07-29T18:19:11 < superbia> and good food ^
2019-07-29T18:19:23 < Steffanx> yeah, still no pics of the lamb in the pot.
2019-07-29T18:20:08 < superbia> I'll get you a photo of the lamb in a pot
2019-07-29T18:20:17 < Steffanx> ty
2019-07-29T18:33:39 < Cracki> how about a photo of a yellow pig https://blogs.mathworks.com/steve/2006/10/17/the-story-behind-the-matlab-default-image/
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2019-07-29T19:05:44 < LikWidChz> Hey folks, are there any STM32's with 5v compatable analog input pins?
2019-07-29T19:06:15 < LikWidChz> I have a handful of the STMF103's and didn't realize they only had two.
2019-07-29T19:06:23 < mawk> if you feed 5V to VDDA it works no ?
2019-07-29T19:06:28 < mawk> just asking, not sure
2019-07-29T19:10:20 < LikWidChz> Small world! whats VDDA?
2019-07-29T19:10:37 < mawk> the analog power supply
2019-07-29T19:10:51 < mawk> it’s not present on all packages I think, but if you don’t have like a 32 pins you’re fne
2019-07-29T19:11:08 < mawk> VDD is the core power supply, and VDDA is to power the analog electronics parts
2019-07-29T19:11:23 < mawk> conversely VSS is the code power supply reference and VSSA is the analog power supply reference
2019-07-29T19:11:26 < mawk> ground
2019-07-29T19:12:28 < LikWidChz> is that the VBAT pin? or the 5V pin
2019-07-29T19:12:43 < mawk> no, the VDDA pin
2019-07-29T19:12:54 < LikWidChz> I thought one of the pins goes through the vreg chip and the other goes straight up its skirt.
2019-07-29T19:12:56 < mawk> if you only have a stm32 demo board this pin may not be available to you
2019-07-29T19:13:06 < LikWidChz> ooh these are the bluepills
2019-07-29T19:13:07 < englishman> omfg samtec what the FUCK
2019-07-29T19:13:12 < mawk> it’s soldered in place to VDD in these boards I guess
2019-07-29T19:13:17 < mawk> with some filtering right before
2019-07-29T19:13:39 < mawk> then I guess you need an external circuit to divide up the input voltage to ADC
2019-07-29T19:15:43 < LikWidChz> yeah well I was curious if there were other stm boards that were compatable with 5v analog rather than messing around with a voltage divder
2019-07-29T19:16:05 < mawk> I don’t think voltage divider is particularly good with precision measures, but if you don’t need incredible accuracy it may be good enough for you
2019-07-29T19:16:08 < mawk> it’s just a couple resistor
2019-07-29T19:16:09 < mawk> s
2019-07-29T19:16:23 < sync> mawk: wtf are you talking about
2019-07-29T19:16:40 < mawk> the analog power pins
2019-07-29T19:16:47 < sync> the basis of every measurement is a voltage divider
2019-07-29T19:16:55 < mawk> yes after a buffer
2019-07-29T19:17:15 < mawk> you can do it when you know the source will stay solid enough
2019-07-29T19:17:25 < englishman> LikWidChz: all ADC pins are 5v compatible if you put a resistor divider in front
2019-07-29T19:17:40 < LikWidChz> englishman, thanks! I just wanted to avoid that.
2019-07-29T19:17:49 < englishman> oh I was scrolled up
2019-07-29T19:17:54 < LikWidChz> no worries.
2019-07-29T19:17:55 < englishman> due to raging at SAMTEC
2019-07-29T19:17:59 < LikWidChz> haha
2019-07-29T19:18:09 < englishman> why do you want to avoid a resistor divider?
2019-07-29T19:18:37 < LikWidChz> external bs, and not wanting to re adjust my code I have based on 5v logic
2019-07-29T19:19:02 < englishman> I see
2019-07-29T19:19:04 < mawk> you should just have *5 multipliers everywhere since the adc gives a value between 0 and whatever max value
2019-07-29T19:19:07 < mawk> so it should be easy to change
2019-07-29T19:19:14 < englishman> stm8 are 5v compatible 
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2019-07-29T19:20:52 < LikWidChz> I have these pressure transducers that read... well pressure :) and they dump out a 5v signal. 0-100 psi, 0-100 psi, and -15 psi to 30psi. I had to calibrate them since these chinese shits arent quality so I have to peg each one to its max read the analog voltage then read its value at rest... then make sure each sensor is tied to a specific pin to avoid fuckery.
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2019-07-29T19:22:27 < LikWidChz> the -15 psi one to +30 psi is kind of a pain since I dont have a way of pulling -15 PSI and hitting the limit of that sensor... its easy to peg it at 30 and 100 psi based on one of those 3-5 gallon portable air tanks.. and they are -3NPT so they screw right into pressure gauge threads.
2019-07-29T19:22:58 < mawk> if the sensor output is solid enough yes a voltage divider is very fine
2019-07-29T19:23:56 < LikWidChz> yeah id prefer to use the 5v full range.. I was also thinking if there was a chip that did analog to digital based off i2c or something then add that on or something..
2019-07-29T19:24:13 < mawk> I don’t think the accuracy will change
2019-07-29T19:24:37 < mawk> just by the uncertainties on the resistor values, that’s all
2019-07-29T19:25:09 < LikWidChz> oh yeah I get it
2019-07-29T19:25:34 < LikWidChz> honestly it would be nice if these pressure sensors were digital
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2019-07-29T19:29:17 < LikWidChz> https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqj3hmfba8eh8xs/_MG_8609.jpg?dl=0
2019-07-29T19:29:23 < LikWidChz> https://www.dropbox.com/s/grh00189qg0jtbk/_MG_7945.jpg?dl=0
2019-07-29T19:30:02 < LikWidChz> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cdlfro953j6udp8/_MG_7950.jpg?dl=0
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2019-07-29T19:33:19 < LikWidChz> englishman, thanks I looked up the STM8. As funny as it might sound, ill just use a nano for this vs the stm chip.. I have screw terminal boards that fit them and there is enough IO for everything to work.
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2019-07-29T19:56:27 < LikWidChz> Is there any RTFM around difference between the black and blue pill stm32?
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2019-07-29T20:05:10 < rajkosto> black is single sided components, has proper USB resistor, doesnt expose some pins, has LED on different pin
2019-07-29T20:05:21 < rajkosto> just read the wiki pages for both boards, both suck
2019-07-29T20:06:02 < LikWidChz> Thanks, heh...is there any differences with analog voltage values? 3v vs 5 tollerant?
2019-07-29T20:07:37 < rajkosto> its the same chip
2019-07-29T20:07:48 < rajkosto> the diagrams on the wiki pages show you the tolerances of the pins
2019-07-29T20:11:22 < LikWidChz> which wiki page? one comes up and gives me the finger because the admin didnt pay $$ or something
2019-07-29T20:20:19 < mawk> 5V tolerant doesn't mean 5V adc I think
2019-07-29T20:20:27 < mawk> it still reads values up to 3.3V
2019-07-29T20:20:34 < mawk> then satutates to max value
2019-07-29T20:20:54 < jpa-> stm32 adc pins aren't 5V tolerant either, though
2019-07-29T20:21:26 < specing> they are tolerant until you exceed 5mA current into them
2019-07-29T20:23:46 < salcedo> our out of them
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2019-07-29T20:42:21 < LikWidChz> so if I dump 3v into one will its max value be 4096??
2019-07-29T20:43:51 < jpa-> if your vdda is also 3v
2019-07-29T20:44:05 < jpa-> and of course assuming it is 12-bit adc
2019-07-29T20:44:24 < LikWidChz> mawk mentioned vdda, I dont see that pin on the bluepill
2019-07-29T20:44:37 < jpa-> it's connected with vdd
2019-07-29T20:44:42 < mawk> it's on the chip itself
2019-07-29T20:44:50 < mawk> not breaked out on the board
2019-07-29T20:44:58 < LikWidChz> ahhh okay, makes sense thanks.
2019-07-29T20:46:20 < salcedo> bluepill probably doesn't have any additional filtering on vdda?
2019-07-29T20:46:32 < salcedo> if not, still "good enough" i suppose
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2019-07-29T20:51:46 < specing> I'm waiting for "bluepill" to become like arduino
2019-07-29T20:52:01 < specing> with everyone developing on arduino and not know what chip they are actually working with
2019-07-29T20:58:06 < jpa-> adding filters to vdda is a two-edged sword; it isolates the noise coming from power supply, but it also ensures that the power supply won't dampen the ripple generated by ADC
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2019-07-29T21:14:24 < salcedo> specing: isn't it already there? stm32duino?
2019-07-29T21:15:06 < salcedo> for the average hobbyist, what are the technical benefits of using stm32 over "arduino" boards?
2019-07-29T21:19:49 < karlp> what ar eyou doing here for so long wiithout having an idea of that yourself?
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2019-07-29T21:21:41 < salcedo> i'm asking about "for the average hobbyist"
2019-07-29T21:26:26 < mawk> I guess you can do as much but with 21st century hardware
2019-07-29T21:29:41 < mawk> with bigger cores it's clear that you can do even more with less parts
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2019-07-29T21:57:29 < hpcadmin> Does openOCD support stm32l4rxx?
2019-07-29T21:57:42 < hpcadmin> Working fine for stm32l47x
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2019-07-29T22:45:28 < hpcadmin> installed -dev and it's worky worky now
2019-07-29T22:51:26 < specing> salcedo: upgradeability
2019-07-29T22:51:55 < specing> salcedo: similar environment from $0.6 cortex-m0 to $10+ cortex-m7
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2019-07-29T23:21:27 < salcedo> hpcadmin: yep you need latest git for higher than l47x
2019-07-29T23:21:32 < Laurenceb> sup
2019-07-29T23:21:42 < Laurenceb> my furry friends
2019-07-29T23:21:47 < salcedo> the capitalized unix user name Laurenceb arrives
2019-07-29T23:21:57 < Laurenceb> keek
2019-07-29T23:22:51 < Laurenceb> I hate public transport
2019-07-29T23:23:04 < Laurenceb> need to get my loicense
2019-07-29T23:24:23 < Laurenceb> today I had to change seats because the stench of the other passengers was making me feel sick
2019-07-29T23:25:36 < salcedo> you don't have the app that turns off smell yet? wtf.
2019-07-29T23:25:44 < salcedo> it got pushed in the latest neuralink update.
2019-07-29T23:26:29 < salcedo> my neuralink already reported you for dissenting behavior. if you do not receive the download in the next 30 seconds, you will be docked 30 UBI points per second until compliance.
2019-07-29T23:26:44 < Laurenceb> keeek
2019-07-29T23:27:05 < Laurenceb> it reminded me of the grrrl from tinder I fugged
2019-07-29T23:27:06 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-29T23:27:20 < salcedo> the timing
2019-07-29T23:27:21 < Laurenceb> rotting meat smell masked by nasty perfume/shower gel
2019-07-29T23:27:34 < salcedo> do you not know the old adage?
2019-07-29T23:27:40 < Laurenceb> no?
2019-07-29T23:27:44 < salcedo> i will mention it in the other chan so as not to cause NPC segfault
2019-07-29T23:27:50 < Laurenceb> kek
2019-07-29T23:32:15 < Laurenceb> now I think I have no desire to ever visit tinder again
2019-07-29T23:32:23 < mawk> my mom is on tinder now
2019-07-29T23:32:33 -!- superbia [~user@unaffiliated/superbia] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-29T23:32:33 < Laurenceb>  O_o
2019-07-29T23:32:42 < superbia> howdy
2019-07-29T23:32:55 < mawk> she left the stupid step father so I installed tinder on her phone
2019-07-29T23:34:49 < salcedo> i wonder if tinder will still be a thing when the original people who started using it are in their 60's?
2019-07-29T23:35:37 < superbia> como estas senor
2019-07-29T23:37:02 < Cracki> tinder needs a "throw into the fire" animation and a wilhelm scream
2019-07-29T23:37:28 < salcedo> never been on it. requires facebook.
2019-07-29T23:38:32 < salcedo> though if i even did, i would get straight to the point.
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2019-07-29T23:39:30 < superbia> i should install it here
2019-07-29T23:39:49 < superbia> help me write a profile boys
2019-07-29T23:40:34 < salcedo> i'd grab a pic from image search of a pile of $100 bills and crop it over a lambo. no face. just lambo and dollar bills.
2019-07-29T23:41:04 < salcedo> superbia: ^ just do that.
2019-07-29T23:41:32 < Laurenceb> chadfish
2019-07-29T23:42:22 < superbia> you need some text underneeth
2019-07-29T23:42:33 < salcedo> yea. "LAMBO. MONEY."
2019-07-29T23:42:53 < Cracki> google "tinder asshole game"
2019-07-29T23:43:10 < Cracki> the more of a psychopath you act, the more they want to jump you
2019-07-29T23:43:35 < Cracki> that's the barrel of fish you dip your rod in
2019-07-29T23:43:50 < Cracki> if you prefer sane, do it offline
2019-07-29T23:43:55 < salcedo> ^
2019-07-29T23:45:51 < superbia> Cracki: since when are you a certified dating instructor?
2019-07-29T23:46:32 < Cracki> I plead the fifth
2019-07-29T23:46:34 < salcedo> "if you prefer sane, do it offline" = volcel
2019-07-29T23:46:37 < salcedo> rofl
2019-07-29T23:47:05 < salcedo> 'round these parts, you're not even real unless you're on facebook.
2019-07-29T23:47:13 < salcedo> like you literally do not exist. period.
2019-07-29T23:47:47 < salcedo> which is kinda cool. i always wanted to have a superpower. not necessarily invisibility. but i'll take it! :)
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--- Day changed Tue Jul 30 2019
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2019-07-30T00:31:04 < kakimir> benis
2019-07-30T00:33:11 < kakimir> it's dark outside
2019-07-30T00:33:52 < kakimir> it means summer is over
2019-07-30T00:36:23 < Laurenceb> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5AJBCgXoAAii7K.jpg
2019-07-30T00:37:25 < kakimir> propper
2019-07-30T00:38:00 < Laurenceb> >ywlts a Somali lady wearing a Nazi baseball cap on top of her burka
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2019-07-30T00:59:45  * qyx kicading a 184pin SOM
2019-07-30T01:04:10 < LikWidChz> Holah, I bought 10 stm32s and all of them are able to be flashed with the STM flash loader to dump on the usb bootloader... however two dont show up as a comport and one fails to show power leds when the boot0 pin is set to non programming mode. Is that about on par with the percentage of them that should work?
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2019-07-30T01:05:05 < qyx> no, all should work
2019-07-30T01:05:36 < LikWidChz> ehh I mean they are pretty cheap, you wouldn't think there could be some duds?
2019-07-30T01:05:38 < qyx> at least I never had a broken stm32
2019-07-30T01:05:42 < LikWidChz> ahh..
2019-07-30T01:05:48 < qyx> where did you buy them?
2019-07-30T01:05:52 < LikWidChz> the ebays
2019-07-30T01:05:58 < qyx> oh, different story
2019-07-30T01:06:00 < qyx> idk then
2019-07-30T01:06:10 < LikWidChz> do other sites test before ship?
2019-07-30T01:06:42 < qyx> the manufacturer does
2019-07-30T01:06:48 < qyx> and reputable sites buy from the manufacturer
2019-07-30T01:06:52 < LikWidChz> pogopin boards make sure lights blinken, put some dummy code on and erase before send to consumer type of deal..
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2019-07-30T01:39:35 < salcedo> qyx: 184 pin som lol
2019-07-30T01:40:15 < salcedo> i'm kicadding an omega2s + pcie for lte module + lora + stm32
2019-07-30T01:42:29 < qyx> omega2 is mtk, isnt it?
2019-07-30T01:42:50 < qyx> why did you choose it?
2019-07-30T01:46:31 < salcedo> because it's cheap and easy to work with
2019-07-30T01:46:53 < salcedo> and i'm not at a level were i can take a SoC BGA and build out what i really want
2019-07-30T01:47:12 < qyx> are you going to try the pci-e pins?
2019-07-30T01:47:19 < qyx> (you don't need them for the LTE modem)
2019-07-30T01:47:44 < salcedo> i'm using pcie because i want people to be able to use their preferred modems
2019-07-30T01:48:04 < salcedo> also because it's faster/easier
2019-07-30T01:48:29 < qyx> I know why but I am asking if you are going to connect the actual pci-e bus to the minipci-e slot or not
2019-07-30T01:48:44 < salcedo> no. using the usb bits
2019-07-30T01:49:10 < qyx> :(
2019-07-30T01:49:16 < qyx> I wanted to know if they are working or not
2019-07-30T01:49:22 < qyx> they are mentioned in the DS
2019-07-30T01:49:26 < qyx> but only in the pin diagram
2019-07-30T01:51:45 < salcedo> the ones on the omega2?
2019-07-30T01:51:49 < qyx> yeah
2019-07-30T01:52:10 < salcedo> i'm sure they are working - but i'm not neckbearding around for months trying to figure it out when i know usb works.
2019-07-30T01:52:54 < qyx> yeah, pci-e would not help you for modems, they are not using it
2019-07-30T01:54:00 < salcedo> rakwireless and a a couple tohers (onion themselves) already selling the same thing
2019-07-30T01:54:06 < Laurenceb> arduino with pcie
2019-07-30T01:54:41 < salcedo> but i set myself a goal to build a complete system that replaces my smartphone with a lora communication device
2019-07-30T01:54:52 < salcedo> that includes building my own gateway w/LTE
2019-07-30T01:55:11 < qyx> are you living in a woods?
2019-07-30T01:55:26 < salcedo> and i'm talking the WHOLE system. (obvs i'm cheating a little by using modules like omega2s+ and quectel lte modem)
2019-07-30T01:56:02 < salcedo> the hardware, the firmware for lora stuff, the software running on my vps to route messages/emails/whatever back and forth.
2019-07-30T01:56:47 < salcedo> no i don't live in the woods lol
2019-07-30T01:56:53 < Laurenceb> peak autism
2019-07-30T01:57:24 < Laurenceb> why not make something useful like a buttplug
2019-07-30T01:57:44 < qyx> I started such play-project ~5y ago, with mesh routing and stuff, e-ink low power end device
2019-07-30T01:57:44 < salcedo> this is useful. for me. and me only.
2019-07-30T01:57:47 < salcedo> to hell with the NPCs.
2019-07-30T01:57:51 < Laurenceb> the absolute sytaye of google
2019-07-30T01:57:52 < qyx> it was before LoRa was a thing
2019-07-30T01:57:54 < salcedo> keep your smartphones.
2019-07-30T01:58:02 < salcedo> join the SoyNet.
2019-07-30T01:58:10 < Laurenceb> streetview using 100% cpu for minutes
2019-07-30T01:59:12 < salcedo> i went into a deep depression
2019-07-30T01:59:24 < salcedo> for weeks. then this lora communicator thing is what came out of it.
2019-07-30T01:59:35 < salcedo> smartphones / social media destroyed my family
2019-07-30T02:00:20 < salcedo> they're all zombies now.
2019-07-30T02:01:07 < salcedo> i want phones/communications devices that can last a month on a single battery charge.
2019-07-30T02:02:28 < Laurenceb> >uk set temperature record
2019-07-30T02:02:43 < Laurenceb> >according to one person who read a manual mercury thermometer
2019-07-30T02:02:43 < qyx> you will have trouble compressing your voice with low power
2019-07-30T02:02:58 < Laurenceb> >when all the surrounding stations were 0.5C lower
2019-07-30T02:03:04 < salcedo> qyx: hehe weeeellll... funny you should ask that.
2019-07-30T02:03:35 < salcedo> i have been entertaining the idea of sending voice over lora. and it is interesting problem to figure out how to do it in a manner that won't have the lora module running at 100% duty cycle.
2019-07-30T02:04:03 < salcedo> i think https://www.rowetel.com/?page_id=452 might be the way
2019-07-30T02:04:15 < qyx> I have spent many hours investigating possibilities
2019-07-30T02:04:21 < qyx> yes, codec2 is the way I selected
2019-07-30T02:04:59 < qyx> I even did some test on L4 just for the lulz
2019-07-30T02:05:07 < salcedo> another good thing about codec2 is the device he made for HF comms is based on stm32
2019-07-30T02:05:20 < qyx> you need to run L4 overclocked to about 140MHz to compress codec2 in realtime
2019-07-30T02:05:40 < qyx> or make some modifications to the source/algo
2019-07-30T02:05:49 < salcedo> were you using the lowest possible bitrates?
2019-07-30T02:05:56 < qyx> I tried all
2019-07-30T02:06:27 < salcedo> i have no idea if it's even possible
2019-07-30T02:06:44 < qyx> it is, the sound would not be great
2019-07-30T02:06:51 < qyx> at 3k2 it is somewhat ~ok
2019-07-30T02:06:59 < salcedo> but the idea is to grab samples from ADC, compress with codec2, send them in short bursts. sync up on the other end
2019-07-30T02:07:18 < qyx> I was using a PDM mic connected to SPI
2019-07-30T02:07:24 < qyx> performing PDM->PCM conversion
2019-07-30T02:07:47 < qyx> compressing and sending in 20/40/60ms frames (or so) over UART
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2019-07-30T02:08:05 < salcedo> so this is totally doable
2019-07-30T02:08:06 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2019-07-30T02:08:09 < Laurenceb> https://www.twitter.com/MikeStuchbery_/status/1155684529337769985
2019-07-30T02:08:17 < Laurenceb> >those ECG leads
2019-07-30T02:08:31 < qyx> yes it is, although I would go with F750 instead
2019-07-30T02:09:02 < qyx> or split radio processing and UI/audio stuff between L4 and F7
2019-07-30T02:09:29 < salcedo> that makes sense
2019-07-30T02:09:49 < salcedo> for the communicator, i've been looking at using L0
2019-07-30T02:09:59 < qyx> nowai
2019-07-30T02:10:02 < salcedo> but this is just text.
2019-07-30T02:10:07 < qyx> oh
2019-07-30T02:10:46 < salcedo> the reason i chose L0 is because: usb, tsc, low power, 128-192kb flash should be plenty for this.
2019-07-30T02:11:37 < salcedo> one of the things i use my smartphone for is TOTP
2019-07-30T02:11:47 < qyx> for radio with a more mature protocol set I would go with 128K+ sram
2019-07-30T02:12:00 < qyx> routing and things take some space for tables
2019-07-30T02:12:16 < salcedo> yea
2019-07-30T02:12:22 < salcedo> eventually i will want to mesh
2019-07-30T02:12:47 < salcedo> but the first one i make on stm32 will be like the avr ones i have already "built"
2019-07-30T02:12:48 < qyx> and 512K+ flash, my mesh-iot-anything playground project is now at 170K and basically it does nothing yet
2019-07-30T02:13:02 < qyx> also, crypto tables eat flash space
2019-07-30T02:13:08 < salcedo> i did two variations on adafruit feathers and also breadboarded one with atmega644
2019-07-30T02:13:09 < qyx> and stack space
2019-07-30T02:13:29 < salcedo> also i have pcbs sitting here for that atmega644 version
2019-07-30T02:13:45 < salcedo> but i doubt i'll ever populate them
2019-07-30T02:14:11 < qyx> my last PDIP40 mega644p was given to a friend as a present
2019-07-30T02:14:22 < salcedo> one look at the schematic and you'll probably spot a critical error lol
2019-07-30T02:14:32 < salcedo> so it's probably a good idea i never order the bom
2019-07-30T02:14:35 < salcedo> ALSO
2019-07-30T02:14:39 < salcedo> it was my FIRST kicad project rofl
2019-07-30T02:15:28 < salcedo> the pcbs look doublepro++ though!
2019-07-30T02:15:39 < qyx> how are you going to route voice on the gateway?
2019-07-30T02:15:45 < qyx> SIP over interwebs over LTE?
2019-07-30T02:16:16 < salcedo> if i ever get to a point where i'm doing voice, sip/rtp yea
2019-07-30T02:16:40 < salcedo> https://postimg.cc/vcqgts6q
2019-07-30T02:17:18 < qyx> such black
2019-07-30T02:17:39 < salcedo> that's everything. atmega644/1284, lora, power, charging, oled, buttons.
2019-07-30T02:17:44 < salcedo> sma antenna
2019-07-30T02:17:53 < salcedo> about the size of a credit card
2019-07-30T02:18:05 < qyx> SMA may be a problem (detuning)
2019-07-30T02:18:29 < salcedo> since when are the little spring antennae any better?
2019-07-30T02:18:29 < qyx> if you plan to connect a small rubber antenna
2019-07-30T02:18:40 < salcedo> rubber ducks are dummy loads anyway
2019-07-30T02:19:01 < qyx> maybe a loop over the circumference would work better
2019-07-30T02:19:17 < qyx> but I am not a RF pro
2019-07-30T02:19:33 < Laurenceb> do I dare to look?
2019-07-30T02:19:45 < qyx> safely
2019-07-30T02:21:16 < Laurenceb> >impossible to see layout
2019-07-30T02:21:19 < Laurenceb> useful
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2019-07-30T02:22:04 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/PedroLopes/openEMSstim
2019-07-30T02:22:31 < Laurenceb> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Migq-EVDL._SX466_.jpg
2019-07-30T02:22:37 < Laurenceb> looks relevant
2019-07-30T02:23:07 < Laurenceb> you need to swap the SMA for 3.5mm stereo aiui
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2019-07-30T03:28:52 < rajkosto> yo can i analyze a 12V RGB PWM controller's output with STM32 and then feed the colors to WS2812b
2019-07-30T03:29:07 < sync> why not
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2019-07-30T03:33:34 < rajkosto> how do i do this real fast
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2019-07-30T03:40:52 < Cracki> uh, voltage dividers, hook the rgb lines up to gpios, timer capture
2019-07-30T03:41:04 < Cracki> *input capture
2019-07-30T03:41:36 < Cracki> assuming your "12v rgb controller" does what I think it does
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2019-07-30T03:53:20 < catphish> voltage divider, timer pwm capture :) unless the rgb controller is current sensing. in which case you'll need to give it a dummy load
2019-07-30T03:54:07 < catphish> still probably a voltage divider and a timer pwm capture :) just a chunkier divider
2019-07-30T03:55:52 < catphish> but its probably not that complex, so what Cracki said should do
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2019-07-30T04:10:08 < Laurenceb> >left my basement lair
2019-07-30T04:10:15 < Laurenceb> >have sunburn 
2019-07-30T04:10:16 < Laurenceb> reee
2019-07-30T04:11:58 < Cracki> what are you, a syrian ginger?
2019-07-30T04:17:45 < rajkosto> why need a divider
2019-07-30T04:17:52 < rajkosto> the grounds are whats switched
2019-07-30T04:17:58 < rajkosto> i dont think they actualy go 12V ?
2019-07-30T04:18:04 < rajkosto> just broken circuit or short to ground
2019-07-30T04:22:07 < Cracki> uh
2019-07-30T04:22:19 < Cracki> maybe
2019-07-30T04:22:22 < rajkosto> the 12V is for common anode
2019-07-30T04:22:36 < rajkosto> with the GNDs of R,G,B pwm switched
2019-07-30T04:22:52 < Cracki> the 12v rgb strips I have are common +, pull rgb down for light
2019-07-30T04:23:17 < Cracki> so... yes, such a controller/driver is probably "just" open drain
2019-07-30T04:23:19 < rajkosto> yes i need to take that signal and convert to R,G,B 8bit values via input capture
2019-07-30T04:23:27 < rajkosto> then send that to 2812b
2019-07-30T04:23:42 < Cracki> do that then
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2019-07-30T04:24:35 < rajkosto> i dont have a multichannel scope
2019-07-30T04:24:44 < Cracki> got a LA at least
2019-07-30T04:24:50 < Cracki> or a tarduino
2019-07-30T04:25:00 < rajkosto> so i dont know if the R,G,B work on the same pwm period
2019-07-30T04:25:01 < rajkosto> they should
2019-07-30T04:25:06 < Cracki> what do you need a scope for, this sounds rather trivial
2019-07-30T04:25:14 < Cracki> get LA, look
2019-07-30T04:25:24 < Cracki> why would you even need to rely on that
2019-07-30T04:25:27 < rajkosto> not hooking up my 3.3V max LAs to something potentionally 12V
2019-07-30T04:25:44 < rajkosto> because input capture will always finish at the same time for all 4 channels
2019-07-30T04:25:54 < Cracki> just take time of falling and rising edge, unsigned subtract, done
2019-07-30T04:26:03 < Cracki> get a breadboard and some resistors then
2019-07-30T04:30:16 < Cracki> two channels, one for rising one for falling (diff polarity), but on the same timer input?
2019-07-30T04:32:31 < Cracki> or just go with "PWM input mode"
2019-07-30T04:33:02 < Cracki> which is just that idea, but nicely described in the rm
2019-07-30T04:42:46 < salcedo> PWM crip-walking the reflow oven
2019-07-30T04:43:13 < Laurenceb> Cracki: muh heritage
2019-07-30T04:43:30 < Laurenceb> I thought I'd be ok but I've spent so long underground I burn too easily
2019-07-30T04:43:48 < Laurenceb> walked 25 miles so hopefully I lost so weight
2019-07-30T04:43:50 < Laurenceb> *some
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2019-07-30T04:54:33 < dongs> autismmmmmmmm
2019-07-30T04:59:41 < Cracki> twenty five miles wtf
2019-07-30T05:00:35 < Cracki> I kinda regret not having chosen military service but DAMN who would miss walking
2019-07-30T05:00:53 < englishman> definitely
2019-07-30T05:01:35 < Cracki> lizardb, peeling skin and all
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2019-07-30T11:06:18 < jly> you only get a medal for sowing the seeds of love
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2019-07-30T12:15:40 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
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2019-07-30T12:42:29 < Steffanx> S-s-s-sounds a-all f-f-ucked up.
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2019-07-30T13:23:27 < PaulFertser> mawk: for the reference, VDDA needs to be pretty close to VDD (according to the datasheet), iirc it was about 0.3V maximum difference or some such. So measuring 5V directly is clearly out of the question for stm32.
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2019-07-30T14:34:46 < TheSeven> another round of the cat and mouse game... https://gist.github.com/TheSeven/5d8071c824b01885a7051d2ecc3c01f5
2019-07-30T14:35:02 < TheSeven> @ohsix and whoever else uses that thing ;)
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2019-07-30T17:07:19 < kakimir> Steffanx: you have moped licence?
2019-07-30T17:07:33 < kakimir> letter A in driving licence?
2019-07-30T17:13:36 < tctw_> Steffanx doesn't seem to be around
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2019-07-30T17:17:44 < kakimir> what was my quit message about 4hours ago?
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2019-07-30T17:19:37 < kakimir> diskakinated
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2019-07-30T17:25:16 < salcedo> diskekistanated
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2019-07-30T18:01:41 < bitmask> i hate soldering these led strips in a not-strip https://i.imgur.com/1mg32Gp.png
2019-07-30T18:02:12 < mawk> beautiful
2019-07-30T18:06:21 < zyp> why not just make a cheap seeed pcb or something and buy the bare leds?
2019-07-30T18:06:58 < bitmask> shush, thats too logical
2019-07-30T18:07:11 < bitmask> for two digits its not really worth it
2019-07-30T18:07:22 < bitmask> if I sell these I will
2019-07-30T18:07:35 < salcedo> what are they?
2019-07-30T18:07:47 < bitmask> a fancy weather telling device
2019-07-30T18:07:55 < salcedo> oh rite is that the cloud thing?
2019-07-30T18:07:58 < bitmask> yup
2019-07-30T18:08:01 < salcedo> the bezos shrines lol
2019-07-30T18:08:05 < bitmask> haha
2019-07-30T18:08:08 < zyp> also, how are you diffusing the led for each segment?
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2019-07-30T18:08:19 < zyp> one led per segment seems a bit little
2019-07-30T18:08:30 < salcedo> yea you should sell those. people love fancy looking weather trinkets
2019-07-30T18:08:33 < bitmask> one is plenty, the printed clock only uses one and the segments are much bigger
2019-07-30T18:08:54 < salcedo> "what's the weather outside? hrm. i don't know. i should go inside and look at my bezos shrine!"
2019-07-30T18:08:55 < bitmask> Im probably going to put a one layer thick white PLA square over the led
2019-07-30T18:09:09 < zyp> sure, but you need a way to diffuse it, which is what I asked you about :)
2019-07-30T18:09:29 < bitmask> you probably dont, the clock looks diffused enough 
2019-07-30T18:09:55 < zyp> with the diffuser, yes? :)
2019-07-30T18:09:55 < bitmask> but since these digits are shorter I may need to 3d print a cover for the led
2019-07-30T18:10:07 < bitmask> the only diffuser is the digit itself
2019-07-30T18:10:48 < bitmask> so no, not with the diffuser :P
2019-07-30T18:11:04 < bitmask> smart ass ;)
2019-07-30T18:14:02 < zyp> what do you mean «digit itself»?
2019-07-30T18:14:18 < bitmask> the 3d printed digit that covers the leds
2019-07-30T18:14:33 < zyp> you mean the 3d-printed diffuser? :p
2019-07-30T18:14:34 < bitmask> it snaps over top
2019-07-30T18:15:20 < bitmask> well if thats the diffuser than my digit is the diffuser as well so your point doesnt make sense in talking about an additional diffuser ::P
2019-07-30T18:15:34 < bitmask> diffuser
2019-07-30T18:24:21 < bitmask> did I win?
2019-07-30T18:54:05 < zyp> idk, I went to eat dinner
2019-07-30T18:54:29 < bitmask> :P
2019-07-30T18:54:30 < karlp> TheSeven: you need to bump the version in the js header so I can track it better :)
2019-07-30T18:56:57 < karlp> I've added the gist link to the top of the js file, if you keep updating the gist that will work.
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2019-07-30T20:08:00 < TheSeven> karlp: that's the plan yes - and I've bumped the version to 0.3 along with another bug fix earlier today
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2019-07-30T21:04:35 < PaulFertser> TheSeven: probably would be nice to see a short human-readable description of the features in the opening comments
2019-07-30T21:10:11 < PaulFertser> TheSeven: I'd also suggest to filter out (some) items that specify a price range, it's most often a dirty trick to get higher in the "price_asc" search, so offers like that should rather be suppressed altogether :)
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2019-07-30T21:15:35 < TheSeven> yeah I know - aliexpress sometimes even orders them below their lower bound, which is totally silly
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2019-07-30T21:15:47 < TheSeven> so far this script doesn't really do any filtering though - it just messes with the parameters sent to the server
2019-07-30T21:16:06 < TheSeven> and I think it's only a matter of time until they kill that old interface altogether
2019-07-30T21:16:33 < TheSeven> (and I've already tried: the new one doesn't support price per piece anymore, even when retrofitted like on the old one)
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2019-07-30T21:19:13 < PaulFertser> Arseholes
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2019-07-30T21:42:50 < kakimir> benisholes
2019-07-30T21:45:54 < Cracki> front holes
2019-07-30T21:46:20 < salcedo> rabbit holes
2019-07-30T21:47:16 < Cracki> front hole is a term for those who have that, but no uterus
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2019-07-30T22:46:05 < Steffanx> Nope, I only have AM and B, kakimir  
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2019-07-30T22:48:03 < Steffanx> But it seems B is enough in dutchland. Assuming its max speed is 45km/h
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2019-07-30T22:56:27 < kakimir> how are these letters made? we have same system!
2019-07-30T22:56:37 < kakimir> so smart
2019-07-30T23:00:10 < jadew> sup peeps?
2019-07-30T23:04:46 < kakimir> sup
2019-07-30T23:06:02 < kakimir> time to watch movie
2019-07-30T23:06:04 < kakimir> or two
2019-07-30T23:08:28 < jadew> same here
2019-07-30T23:08:35 < jadew> what are you going to see?
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2019-07-30T23:13:34 < jadew> what's a good handheld DMM within $100?
2019-07-30T23:14:38 < TheSeven> for what purpose?
2019-07-30T23:15:03 < TheSeven> electronics tinkering on your workbench or rather some electrician style rugged thing?
2019-07-30T23:15:05 < jadew> general stuff + won't kill user if plugged into main
2019-07-30T23:15:22 < jadew> more towards the electrician type of usage
2019-07-30T23:15:24 < jadew> it's for my dad
2019-07-30T23:15:42 < jadew> *mains
2019-07-30T23:15:47 < TheSeven> ok, not the AN8008 then...
2019-07-30T23:16:03 < jadew> yeah, no
2019-07-30T23:16:47 < TheSeven> I'm using a Mastech MS8240C for that kind of thing and am quite happy with it - but I'm sure there are better ones these days
2019-07-30T23:16:50 < jadew> has to have HRC fuses, should be able to sustain a 2m drop, autoranging, nice silicone leads
2019-07-30T23:17:46 < jadew> yeah, I'm sure there are better options out there than when I got mine
2019-07-30T23:17:56 < jadew> $100 is an ok budget for this, no?
2019-07-30T23:18:18 < TheSeven> I'd say you can probably something reasonable for half that, so yes
2019-07-30T23:18:30 < TheSeven> probably get*
2019-07-30T23:18:43 < jadew> that's what I thought
2019-07-30T23:19:27 < TheSeven> has eevblog or a similar channel recently done a shootout?
2019-07-30T23:19:37 < jadew> that's exactly what I was wondering myself
2019-07-30T23:19:49 < jadew> I know he did one many years back
2019-07-30T23:20:18 < TheSeven> https://www.amazon.com/Mastech-MS8240C-ranging-Digital-Multimeter-x/dp/B00R59ZLG2 - yeah right
2019-07-30T23:20:48 < TheSeven> https://www.circuitspecialists.com/digital-multimeter-ms8240c.html
2019-07-30T23:20:55 < TheSeven> seems to be still available, but not in many places
2019-07-30T23:21:03 < TheSeven> probably better to get something more recent ;)
2019-07-30T23:21:46 < Steffanx> I guess it's some EU thing kakimir  
2019-07-30T23:22:04 < kakimir> I only lack DE
2019-07-30T23:22:14 < kakimir> to have full set
2019-07-30T23:22:28 < kakimir> and not planning to have it
2019-07-30T23:23:01 < Steffanx> And D1E?
2019-07-30T23:24:00 < TheSeven> what the heck is that even?
2019-07-30T23:24:00 < kakimir> and D
2019-07-30T23:24:06 < kakimir> a bus
2019-07-30T23:24:11 < TheSeven> public transport bus with trailer?
2019-07-30T23:24:33 < kakimir> trailer with certain parameters that are smaller than for DE
2019-07-30T23:24:35 < Steffanx> It seems to be that
2019-07-30T23:25:07  * TheSeven can't remember having ever seen a bus with a trailer
2019-07-30T23:25:41 < TheSeven> so seems kinda odd to have not just one, but even two classes for that kind of non-existent thing?
2019-07-30T23:26:09 < Steffanx> A bus with trailer isnt that uncommon
2019-07-30T23:26:23 < kakimir> mad thing is that you can have full size trailer with bus.. something that you would have in a lorry
2019-07-30T23:26:28 < Steffanx> Touring bus with trailer.
2019-07-30T23:26:32 < kakimir> that's DE
2019-07-30T23:27:11 < kakimir> no wait
2019-07-30T23:27:19 < kakimir> D1E is for mini bus
2019-07-30T23:27:32 < kakimir> like C1 is for mini truck
2019-07-30T23:27:46 < kakimir> 5000kg or so I suppose
2019-07-30T23:29:12 < Steffanx> I dont even have BE.
2019-07-30T23:29:27 < kakimir> D1 is 8meters and 16 passengers
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2019-07-30T23:30:02 < kakimir> with C you can have like 7 passengers or 9... can't remember
2019-07-30T23:30:44 < mawk> in C you can do anything
2019-07-30T23:31:29 < kakimir> if you remove all but those passenger seats from a bus you can get it reinspected for a truck.. so sutble is the difference
2019-07-30T23:31:37 < kakimir> it's about number of passengers
2019-07-30T23:35:13 < jadew> wtf are you talking about?
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2019-07-30T23:35:18 < jadew> what are all those letters?
2019-07-30T23:35:37 < jadew> driver license categories?
2019-07-30T23:35:52 < kakimir> indeed
2019-07-30T23:35:59 < jadew> ok, now it makes sense
2019-07-30T23:36:04 < superbia> a1 a b b+c+d a+i+d+s
2019-07-30T23:36:19 < jadew> I thought you're talking about collectibles or some crap
2019-07-30T23:36:22 < kakimir> aids?
2019-07-30T23:36:33 < kakimir> I only collect SHIT
2019-07-30T23:36:36 < superbia> when you are licenced to ride a negro
2019-07-30T23:36:47 < kakimir> superbia: funny
2019-07-30T23:37:12 < jadew> that's when you get diagnosed with a loose vagina?
2019-07-30T23:37:54 < kakimir> :O
2019-07-30T23:39:41 < jadew> had a g/f once who said a previous bf dumped her because she was too loose
2019-07-30T23:40:05 < kakimir> did you ask his dimensions?
2019-07-30T23:40:08 < jadew> I couldn't have said "well, he was right!", so I said instead: "What? I didn't notice..."
2019-07-30T23:40:21 < mawk> lol jadew 
2019-07-30T23:40:46 < mawk> gift her a book on muscle exercises or something
2019-07-30T23:41:29 < kakimir> with one girl I literally asked.. "is it in?"
2019-07-30T23:41:36 < jadew> lol
2019-07-30T23:41:50 < kakimir> reply was "I don't know"
2019-07-30T23:41:53 < jadew> mawk, yeah, luckily that's something they can fix, isn't it?
2019-07-30T23:41:59 < jadew> haha kakimir 
2019-07-30T23:42:01 < mawk> up to a certain point jadew 
2019-07-30T23:42:07 < mawk> else you can just do anal
2019-07-30T23:42:10 < mawk> it will be tighter
2019-07-30T23:42:15 < mawk> but she may not like it
2019-07-30T23:43:04 < jadew> how do you go about that? "Do you feel anything? - Not really... - Do you want to?"
2019-07-30T23:43:29 < mawk> lol
2019-07-30T23:43:41 < Cracki> don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness
2019-07-30T23:44:11 < karlp> TheSeven: the version I had in zypsnips was already 0.3, which is why I asked,
2019-07-30T23:45:27 < superbia> kakimir: lol
2019-07-30T23:45:50 < karlp> TheSeven: what's with the an8008? like? dislike?
2019-07-30T23:46:07 < TheSeven> that's interesting - my latest local version before was 0.2, hmmmm... did someone else fix it some time ago? ;)
2019-07-30T23:46:58 < TheSeven> karlp: I absolutely like it for bench electronics tinkering or for portable use when the small form factor comes in handy - but it's just not an electrician's meter
2019-07-30T23:47:37 < karlp> TheSeven: plenty of buses here have trailers, they use them for luggage on airport shuttles
2019-07-30T23:47:42 < TheSeven> my biggest personal complaint about that thing is that the thing is too light and the stand is too flimsy, so it falls over all the time, especially when you try to rotate the mode selector with one hand
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2019-07-30T23:49:12 < jadew> wtf? https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-Hantek-DSO5102P-Digital-Oscilloscope-100MHz-1GHz-7-TFT-Compared-TEK-XR-/312690458927
2019-07-30T23:49:30 < TheSeven> oh, and the missing 1mA/10mA modes, but it's still a great tradeoff
2019-07-30T23:50:07 < TheSeven> jadew: but it looks better when angled that way in the photo!
2019-07-30T23:50:30 < jadew> or they're trying to hide from some algorithm
2019-07-30T23:52:42 < mawk> what's wrong with this page jadew ?
2019-07-30T23:53:06 < jadew> mawk, you don't find the photos odd?
2019-07-30T23:53:11 < karlp> photo is mirrored
2019-07-30T23:53:17 < mawk> ah
2019-07-30T23:53:33 < mawk> yeah that's a good marketing technique
2019-07-30T23:53:42 < mawk> it makes contrast with all the other photos that look the same
2019-07-30T23:53:55 < jadew> that is true, it worked
2019-07-30T23:54:00 < mawk> lol
2019-07-30T23:54:12 < jadew> but they should have just one photo like that
2019-07-30T23:56:43 < jadew> if I'm not mistaken BM257 is a pretty good one, isn't it?
2019-07-30T23:57:02 < jadew> not really $100, but close
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2019-07-30T23:57:20 < jadew> 6000 counts
2019-07-30T23:57:30 < jadew> 5 rdgs/second
2019-07-30T23:57:34 < jadew> bar graph
2019-07-30T23:57:52 < jadew> and true RMS
2019-07-30T23:58:22 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
--- Day changed Wed Jul 31 2019
2019-07-31T00:00:24 < mawk> you're broke
2019-07-31T00:00:43 < jadew> kinda am
2019-07-31T00:03:49 < kakimir> I concider myself broke
2019-07-31T00:04:36 < kakimir> under 10k in bank
2019-07-31T00:05:54 < jadew> yeah, that's broke
2019-07-31T00:05:58 < jadew> I'm not far off either
2019-07-31T00:06:23 < mawk> I have 400€ in bank
2019-07-31T00:06:29 < mawk> it's my all time high this year
2019-07-31T00:06:34 < mawk> I'm usually at -1000€
2019-07-31T00:06:36 < jadew> but it depends how those funds are trending too
2019-07-31T00:07:05 < zyp> uh
2019-07-31T00:07:06 < zyp> 16:07:19 < kakimir> Steffanx: you have moped licence?
2019-07-31T00:07:06 < zyp> 16:07:33 < kakimir> letter A in driving licence?
2019-07-31T00:07:06 < zyp> 21:46:05 < Steffanx> Nope, I only have AM and B, kakimir  
2019-07-31T00:07:16 < zyp> that's exactly what AM is
2019-07-31T00:07:26 < kakimir> that is moped licence
2019-07-31T00:07:33 < kakimir> I meant moped licence
2019-07-31T00:07:45 < jadew> mawk, if it's going up, you're good
2019-07-31T00:07:51 < zyp> A is two-wheelers, AM is the moped-only variant of it
2019-07-31T00:08:51 < zyp> before it used to be called only M, but nowadays it's AM, and at least here it's included when you take B
2019-07-31T00:08:53 < karlp> jadew: I thought you had a bm257?
2019-07-31T00:09:13 < jadew> karlp, I have the 867
2019-07-31T00:09:14 < zyp> kakimir, what are you trying to say?
2019-07-31T00:09:15 < karlp> but yeah, bm257s is well regardled.
2019-07-31T00:09:36 < kakimir> zyp: big boy moped
2019-07-31T00:09:38 < jadew> thought so, I think I'm gonna get him that one
2019-07-31T00:10:06 < zyp> kakimir, as in light MC? as in A1?
2019-07-31T00:10:08 < karlp> jadew: iirc thorn has the bm257 then?
2019-07-31T00:10:35 < kakimir> zyp: as in A
2019-07-31T00:10:59 < zyp> i.e. MC
2019-07-31T00:11:09 < jadew> karlp, I don't remember, someone here has it tho
2019-07-31T00:11:14 < zyp> A is MC, A1 is light MC, AM is moped
2019-07-31T00:11:31 < karlp> whatð's definition of moped exactly?
2019-07-31T00:11:44 < zyp> some power and speed limits
2019-07-31T00:11:50 < jadew> bike with less than 50 cp?
2019-07-31T00:12:30 < karlp> does it have to have pedals still or what?
2019-07-31T00:12:48 < zyp> no
2019-07-31T00:13:47 < karlp> emissions on mopeds seems to be pretty shit
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2019-07-31T00:15:00 < zyp> ah, found the law
2019-07-31T00:15:24 < zyp> max speed 45 km/h, gasoline engines are limited to 50cc and electric motors are limited to 4kW
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2019-07-31T00:18:54 < zyp> kakimir, so you have everything but DE?
2019-07-31T00:19:18 < kakimir> pretty much
2019-07-31T00:19:19 < PaulFertser> In russia one can get A1 (125cc + some max power limit so Aprilia RS125 is out) being >= 16 y.o. and A (any motor bike) >= 18 y.o. And one doesn't need to have A1 to get A.
2019-07-31T00:19:33 < zyp> PaulFertser, same here
2019-07-31T00:19:43 < zyp> A1 is 125cc/11kW
2019-07-31T00:19:59 < kakimir> I had A1 and it was automatically upgraded
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2019-07-31T00:20:17 < PaulFertser> zyp: don't you find it's pretty lame that a 18 y.o. teenager can get YZF-R1 as his first (and possibly the last) bike?
2019-07-31T00:20:46 < zyp> I'm not very familiar with bikes
2019-07-31T00:21:26 < zyp> oh, actually, age limit for A is 20 in norway
2019-07-31T00:21:45 < jadew> it's 18 here
2019-07-31T00:21:57 < jadew> at 18 you're an adult in every way in romanian law
2019-07-31T00:21:57 < PaulFertser> 1 in R1 stands for 1L engine displacement. So that's a really fast and dangerous sports bike.
2019-07-31T00:22:18 < zyp> you can either get A at 20 if you've had A2 for two years, or you can get A at 24
2019-07-31T00:23:18 < PaulFertser> Now that's sane!
2019-07-31T00:23:41 < Steffanx> I think it's the same here
2019-07-31T00:23:59 < zyp> yeah, this is probably EU/EEA-wide
2019-07-31T00:24:09 < zyp> but idk
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2019-07-31T00:24:31 < zyp> do you guys even have a class S in your driver licenses?
2019-07-31T00:24:41 < zyp> (snowmobile)
2019-07-31T00:25:22 < Steffanx> Lol. No. Guess why not
2019-07-31T00:25:26 < specing> I'm not sure if you even need a license for snowmobiles, as they arent used on public roads
2019-07-31T00:25:26 < zyp> :D
2019-07-31T00:25:39 < zyp> well, I have B M S in my license
2019-07-31T00:25:46 < jadew> what's M?
2019-07-31T00:25:54 < zyp> moped
2019-07-31T00:26:05 < Steffanx> We only have AM
2019-07-31T00:26:07 < zyp> I got my license before it got renamed to AM
2019-07-31T00:26:13 < zyp> my brother has AM B in his license
2019-07-31T00:26:14 < Steffanx> Ah
2019-07-31T00:26:14 < jadew> I think kids can ride mopeds here, but I'm not sure
2019-07-31T00:26:26 < jadew> I have a friend who used to ride a moped since he was 14
2019-07-31T00:26:38 < zyp> they stopped giving out S along with B shortly after I got my license
2019-07-31T00:26:43 < Steffanx> Here you can too, but you have to get a license. At 16 I think
2019-07-31T00:26:48 < Steffanx> Or maybe 14
2019-07-31T00:26:54 < zyp> AM is 16 here
2019-07-31T00:26:56 < jadew> maybe he had one, I don't remember
2019-07-31T00:26:58 < kakimir> my friend rode 800cc when he was 14
2019-07-31T00:27:29 < kakimir> said that it's cheaper to pay the fine than the licence
2019-07-31T00:27:31 < Steffanx> You can do it at 10 ofcourse, on private property.
2019-07-31T00:27:41 < kakimir> he's dead now
2019-07-31T00:27:46 < jadew> lol kakimir 
2019-07-31T00:27:47 < zyp> kakimir, so how come you've got C and D? military?
2019-07-31T00:28:04 < kakimir> indeed
2019-07-31T00:28:14 < zyp> ah, I got a friend who did the same
2019-07-31T00:28:15 < Steffanx> Cheater
2019-07-31T00:28:26 < jadew> zyp, rode bikes and died?
2019-07-31T00:28:47 < zyp> military put him through a truck driving course, and then he figured might as well get the bus addon while he were at it
2019-07-31T00:28:51 < jadew> ah
2019-07-31T00:29:16 < jadew> kakimir, you know how to drive a bus?
2019-07-31T00:29:19 < jadew> what's that like?
2019-07-31T00:29:20 < kakimir> zyp: nice twist.. he must have resisted that decision
2019-07-31T00:29:26 < jadew> is it much different than a regular car?
2019-07-31T00:29:41 < zyp> kinda convenient, we've rented a small bus for a couple of outings before
2019-07-31T00:30:22 < kakimir> like 20 gears jadew
2019-07-31T00:30:34 < jadew> kakimir, hah
2019-07-31T00:30:48 < kakimir> there is 2 sets of gears
2019-07-31T00:31:07 < kakimir> you flip the switch and you get higher set
2019-07-31T00:31:18 < PaulFertser> In that sense SUVs have two sets of gears too :)
2019-07-31T00:32:05 < kakimir> also there is gear halfer.. you flip another switch in the stick and it gives "half gear" more
2019-07-31T00:32:22 < PaulFertser> Does buses have additional controls for special brake systems (like "jake brakes" or different retarders)?
2019-07-31T00:32:30 < zyp> said friend got laid off a few years ago, signed up for a masters and figured he could work as a bus driver meanwhile
2019-07-31T00:32:31 < jadew> kakimir, that's pretty cool
2019-07-31T00:32:57 < zyp> so he went through some course and got some training with the local bus company
2019-07-31T00:33:26 < kakimir> empty you need like 6 gear changes to get to full speed
2019-07-31T00:33:33 < zyp> and when he got qualified to drive, they gave him a shitty schedule and were really inflexible about it, so he quit immediately
2019-07-31T00:34:12 < kakimir> full load up the hill you need every gear and half gear pretty much
2019-07-31T00:35:21 < zyp> C1 would be kinda cool to have, I want a light flatbed truck with a crane :p
2019-07-31T00:38:00 < zyp> I've looked at some that are drivable with only B, but the payload capacity is so limited
2019-07-31T00:40:18 < sync> yeah, I need to get a C license at some point
2019-07-31T00:41:03 < zyp> on the other hand, drivable on B means it'd be easier to rent out when I'm not using it myself
2019-07-31T00:41:49 < zyp> could get BE and a trailer that can load a couple tons
2019-07-31T00:44:35 < sync> you can't really load a lot on a lot of trailers
2019-07-31T00:44:55 < sync> and to tow 3.5t you need a 4x4 vehicle usually
2019-07-31T00:45:17 < sync> because otherwise you can't load anything in your tow vehicle
2019-07-31T00:47:31 < zyp> in what sense? I'm not really looking at towing 3.5t, figure 2t is more realistically
2019-07-31T00:48:12 < sync> yes but your trailer weighs about a ton at that weight
2019-07-31T00:48:23 < karlp> why 4x4? surely you just need a trailer with powered brakes?
2019-07-31T00:48:39 < karlp> 3.5t is lots of shit though, unless you're trying to move dirt.
2019-07-31T00:48:42 < sync> there are no power brake trailers in europe
2019-07-31T00:49:00  * karlp hasn't driven a trailer since australia
2019-07-31T00:49:14 < sync> the runup brake is fine, but there are very few vehicles that can legally tow such a large weight
2019-07-31T00:49:19 < sync> and 4x4 are exempt
2019-07-31T00:49:32 < karlp> that sounds like a loophole, more than rationale :)
2019-07-31T00:49:42 < sync> correct
2019-07-31T00:49:58 < zyp> karlp, dirt, stones, gravel, etc…
2019-07-31T00:50:14 < karlp> moving any meaningful amount of shit like that you just need a big fucking truckj
2019-07-31T00:50:15 < sync> but eh, V10 tdi touaregs are incredibly cheap
2019-07-31T00:50:38 < karlp> borther in law drove ~50 trips in a 10t dump truck on the weekend moving dirt for a house build
2019-07-31T00:50:47 < karlp> doing that in 2t lots? fuck off.
2019-07-31T00:50:56 < karlp> (he's not even close to finished)
2019-07-31T00:51:57 < zyp> I'm not looking at doing any projects at that scale
2019-07-31T00:52:49  * karlp shrugs. just seems like 2t is a shitty middle ground of "much bigger than you need for bringing shit home from the box store, but still way to smallfor earthmoving"
2019-07-31T00:53:32 < zyp> the number I'm going by is «I'd like to be able to go get a pallet of paving stones without breaking it up»
2019-07-31T00:53:36 < zyp> and that's 1800kg
2019-07-31T00:55:54 < sync> then you probably also want a hydraulic platform
2019-07-31T00:56:15 < zyp> no, I want a crane
2019-07-31T00:56:30 < sync> for hauling sand the platform is very nice
2019-07-31T00:56:44 < sync> but with a crane you are instantly in 7.49t territory
2019-07-31T00:56:51 < sync> or more
2019-07-31T00:57:18 < zyp> nah, not a big one, 2tm would be fine
2019-07-31T00:57:44 < zyp> my understanding is that you only need a crane operator certificate for cranes >2tm
2019-07-31T00:58:23 < sync> you will not get a crane vehicle in under 1.5t vehicle weight
2019-07-31T00:58:41 < zyp> so a pickup with a 2tm crane and as much payload as is drivable on class B would be a fine rental vehicle
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2019-07-31T01:23:24 < jadew> were you guys aware of the icecream challenge?
2019-07-31T01:23:51 < jadew> for those who don't know, it's about licking icecream and putting it back
2019-07-31T01:23:59 < salcedo> yes i have heard of it
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2019-07-31T01:24:25 < jadew> which degenerated into drinking and spitting into bottles of soda and putting them back
2019-07-31T01:25:19 < jadew> I'm always expect the worst from people, so I take my stuff from the back/the bottom and with the best expiration date
2019-07-31T01:25:31 < jadew> but I think I'll be even more careful now
2019-07-31T01:25:46 < sync> wat
2019-07-31T01:26:05 < jadew> initially I did it because I thought people were poorly raised, but now I'll have to also consider the fact that they're stupid and evil
2019-07-31T01:27:00 < jadew> sync, pretty much that, apparently there was a challenge online to lick icecream and put it back
2019-07-31T01:27:07 < jadew> and then it ended up being more than that
2019-07-31T01:27:34 < jadew> opening and drinking from multiple soda bottles, spitting into them, etc
2019-07-31T01:28:09 < kakimir> does it involve social media?
2019-07-31T01:28:21 < jadew> and I think it all started with that ariana thing, when she bit a donut and put it back, but that's hardly the same IMO
2019-07-31T01:28:25 < jadew> kakimir, obviously
2019-07-31T01:28:29 < jadew> it was all done for fame
2019-07-31T01:28:42 < kakimir> no further explanation required
2019-07-31T01:30:05 < jadew> btw, since we were talking about OCD some weeks back
2019-07-31T01:30:12 < jadew> this is the kind of shit that reinforces OCD
2019-07-31T01:30:34 < jadew> because it's an "ah ha! I knew I was right" moment
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2019-07-31T01:31:57 < jadew> it also makes you wonder if it was OCD to begin with or just good practice
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2019-07-31T01:38:16 < Cracki> if you wanna sink time into a tv series, House MD might be up your alley. realist/pessimist/misanthrope. "everybody lies".
2019-07-31T01:39:13 < Cracki> only licked ice cream I was aware of was that... "person"... that licked a big bucket of it, on video, and got identified
2019-07-31T01:39:14 < jadew> Cracki, no thanks, I don't want to start getting ideas about what could be wrong with me
2019-07-31T01:39:33 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, lots of other people do it after that
2019-07-31T01:39:33 < Cracki> didn't know they graduated to liquids
2019-07-31T01:39:41 < jadew> *did
2019-07-31T01:39:42 < Cracki> gulag them all
2019-07-31T01:40:00 < jadew> yeah, prison time sounds just about right
2019-07-31T01:40:09 < jadew> and it needs to be publicized
2019-07-31T01:40:19 < jadew> otherwise it won't stop
2019-07-31T01:40:37 < Cracki> by gulag I mean hard labor in siberia
2019-07-31T01:40:40 < salcedo> they're not stupid and evil
2019-07-31T01:40:48 < jadew> apparently the first girl who did this, didn't get any sentence, because she was a juvenile
2019-07-31T01:41:06 < jadew> she should have been punished too, otherwise other stupid kids will think it's ok
2019-07-31T01:41:16 < jadew> salcedo, they're not?
2019-07-31T01:41:31 < Cracki> enlightened cultures would have cut her tongue out
2019-07-31T01:41:34 < salcedo> no
2019-07-31T01:42:05 < salcedo> they are just further along with the programming. soon all will receive involuntary procedures and become Neuralinked Programmable Cucks
2019-07-31T01:42:34 < jadew> funny
2019-07-31T01:42:42 < salcedo> unless you are part of the Elysium class. the benefactors of the near-future slave race.
2019-07-31T01:42:49 < karlp> stahp
2019-07-31T01:43:13 < salcedo> shit. this isn't my novel editor... woops wrong window.
2019-07-31T01:45:44 < jadew> karlp has an eye on you at all times it seems :)
2019-07-31T01:46:56 < salcedo> yea i'm not really supposed to be here. the internet is for them. :)
2019-07-31T01:47:15 < jadew> who's them?
2019-07-31T01:51:47 < kakimir> how to know when you are getting old
2019-07-31T01:52:31 < jadew> other people start calling you sir and being polite to you, like you're not a cool dude anymore
2019-07-31T01:52:42 < kakimir> it's when "teenagers are doing weird shit I don't like it at all"
2019-07-31T01:53:00 < jadew> I'm not there
2019-07-31T01:53:10 < jadew> I like what most teenagers are doing
2019-07-31T01:53:32 < kakimir> I have no clue that teenagers are doing
2019-07-31T01:53:53 < jadew> including being stupid and silly, because that makes me feel less bad about my own teenage years
2019-07-31T01:54:31 < jadew> kakimir, they're dressing weird and are being odd because they don't know how to deal with the adult world they're gradually being included in
2019-07-31T01:57:58 < jadew> the one thing they are getting right is that they have to be noticed
2019-07-31T01:58:27 < jadew> unfortunately, that kinda turned against them with the advent of social media
2019-07-31T02:01:18 < jadew> to change the subject, I think I like boxing more than MMA
2019-07-31T02:02:12 < jadew> (to watch)
2019-07-31T02:11:33 < karlp> iin this, that someone shared https://brevzin.github.io/c++/2019/07/28/comparisons-cpp20/ why do the operator decls need "friend" ?
2019-07-31T02:13:06 < karlp> further, what is the general poitn of != being a separate overloadable operator than ==?
2019-07-31T02:13:39 < karlp> is != not equal to not the == operator?
2019-07-31T02:15:32 < karlp> ok, juust history and old shit not wanting to know.
2019-07-31T02:15:44 < karlp> users just required/(recommended) to implemnt != in terms of ! and ==
2019-07-31T02:17:32 < jadew> karlp, the point of having both != and == is optimization
2019-07-31T02:17:53 < jadew> for example, == might require you to check equality between 100 elements, but != requires only one to be different
2019-07-31T02:18:21 < jadew> I don't know what that friend thing is
2019-07-31T02:18:32 < jadew> normally you declare friends differently
2019-07-31T02:18:40 < jadew> that's not what I'm used to
2019-07-31T02:19:26 < jadew> ah, I think I get it
2019-07-31T02:20:39 < jadew> I think it's a way of defining a global function that handles that thing, at the same time as the declaration
2019-07-31T02:20:49 < jadew> I don't know if this worked before, but it saves some typing I guess
2019-07-31T02:21:43 < jadew> karlp, where was he recommended that?
2019-07-31T02:22:04 < jadew> because in the case of a string, the recommendation _can_ be wrong
2019-07-31T02:22:23 < jadew> if he implements == as ! !=, then he's fine
2019-07-31T02:22:34 < jadew> if he does ! as ! ==, then he's not fine
2019-07-31T02:23:28  * jadew goes back to watch boxing
2019-07-31T02:25:28 < karlp> well, not explictily, it was "To the language, they’re the same. Instead, we rely on idioms. One such is to make sure that you define != in terms of ==:"
2019-07-31T02:25:41 < karlp> I just don't know c++ enough to have even know that you had to implement == and != separately.
2019-07-31T02:25:55 < karlp> I dind't know != was a separat eoperator at all, to me it is just not equals.
2019-07-31T02:29:34 < karlp> ahh, the friend thing comes from, "It’s important (and recommended practice) to write comparisons as non-member functions to support heterogeneous comparison.
2019-07-31T02:29:37 < karlp> "
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2019-07-31T03:04:47 < aandrew> dongs: need some help from your chinagirl... I'm trying to find a source for a 120vac coil relay, spdt with contact rating of 15A. form factor needs to be "flat" (most relays are more cubic. I can have wide and flat but not typical form factor)
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2019-07-31T03:05:23 < aandrew> if this pans out, single digit thousands quantity is probably minimum order
2019-07-31T03:06:14 < aandrew> contact rating of 15A resistive, probably something like 10A inductive. specifics can be owrked out if the form factor can be found
2019-07-31T03:06:45 < aandrew> UR rating would be *ideal* but that may be asking too much
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2019-07-31T03:24:28 < jadew> would it be ok to call a selection guide an article?
2019-07-31T03:24:54 < jadew> (the page itself)
2019-07-31T03:25:09 < aandrew> hm?
2019-07-31T03:26:05 < jadew> I'm gonna have something like blog posts on my site, but with less "me" factor in it than a blog post
2019-07-31T03:26:14 < jadew> maybe even less than a normal article - more like a wiki page
2019-07-31T03:26:28 < jadew> if you group them together in an index - how do you call that index?
2019-07-31T03:26:30 < jadew> Articles?
2019-07-31T03:26:42 < aandrew> yeah I'd just say articles or entries
2019-07-31T03:27:03 < jadew> thanks
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2019-07-31T04:01:48 < zyp> twats
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2019-07-31T04:40:32 < englishman> Apple reported earnings for its June quarter on Tuesday that were above expectations, and the company’s revenue returned to growth after two straight down quarters.
2019-07-31T04:40:32 < englishman> Apple’s guidance also beat analyst expectations.
2019-07-31T04:40:36 < englishman> yessss
2019-07-31T04:40:59 < jadew> you have apple stock? :)
2019-07-31T04:41:42 < englishman> since 1995
2019-07-31T04:43:29 < jadew> wish stock market was as interesting in europe
2019-07-31T04:51:05 < mawk> you can buy aapl stock too jadew no ?
2019-07-31T04:51:10 < mawk> just open the right kind of bank account
2019-07-31T04:51:21 < mawk> and don't forget to short tesla
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2019-07-31T05:37:34 < jadew> mawk, I'll have to ask
2019-07-31T05:37:55 < jadew> as far as I understand, you can't easily buy US stock from within the EU
2019-07-31T05:48:27 < scrts> so they did 766km distance transmission using lorawan
2019-07-31T05:48:29 < scrts> awesome
2019-07-31T05:48:49 < scrts> 25mW transmission power
2019-07-31T05:57:12 < englishman> cool
2019-07-31T05:57:15 < englishman> lora sure is awesome
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2019-07-31T06:57:50 < aandrew> wtf
2019-07-31T06:57:56 < aandrew> 766km on 25mW?
2019-07-31T06:57:59 < aandrew> that's awesome
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2019-07-31T07:30:02 < dongs> hello dongs
2019-07-31T07:30:22 < dongs> aandrew: yeah ive seen those before. the flat ones are usually omron clones-ish
2019-07-31T07:30:45 < dongs> gimme dimensiosn and ill poke her
2019-07-31T07:31:09 < dongs> isnt SPDT the standard r elay shit?
2019-07-31T07:31:12 < dongs> one NC one NO
2019-07-31T07:31:14 < dongs> and common
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2019-07-31T07:36:14 < dongs> sup chinaman
2019-07-31T07:36:49 < upgrdman> not bad. how's life in japland?
2019-07-31T07:37:04 < dongs> not sure, i just got back yesterday
2019-07-31T07:37:07 < dongs> been in taiwan/korea
2019-07-31T07:37:11 < dongs> and going to murica next week
2019-07-31T07:40:01 < upgrdman> nice
2019-07-31T07:40:14 < upgrdman> how was taiwan? i've been told is like china but nicer
2019-07-31T07:40:48 < dongs> yeah its much better
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2019-07-31T08:05:26 < bitmask> how do you lock a footprint in pcb design in altium so that when you align bottom it aligns to the locked bottom component?
2019-07-31T08:05:40 < bitmask> oh I have an idea
2019-07-31T08:05:44 < bitmask> just move everything above it
2019-07-31T08:05:55 < bitmask> then its the lowest and should align to it?
2019-07-31T08:06:09 < bitmask> that worked but not a great solution
2019-07-31T08:12:00 < bitmask> ahh found it
2019-07-31T08:12:09 < bitmask> its that big..lock
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2019-07-31T09:49:01 < dongs> aandrew: JQ1P-5V-F is the thinnest one i think
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2019-07-31T09:53:15 < dongs> was it a mouse
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2019-07-31T12:25:02 < jly> tctw_: welcome
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2019-07-31T13:47:55 < Steffanx> tctw_:  welcome
2019-07-31T13:56:23 < jly> lol
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2019-07-31T14:48:57 < rajkosto> Cracki, how do you handle edge case where input pwm is always 0 or 1
2019-07-31T14:50:12 < zyp> rajkosto, I'm not sure what the context here is, but I'm guessing you're asking about using input capture to measure pwm?
2019-07-31T14:50:15 < rajkosto> yes
2019-07-31T14:50:40 < rajkosto> im guessing after each period interrupt set that period + some small value into autoreload
2019-07-31T14:50:53 < zyp> yes
2019-07-31T14:50:56 < rajkosto> so timer will expire if its a constant value
2019-07-31T14:51:04 < rajkosto> but then i need to switch the pin to GPIO to read if its 0 or 1 ?
2019-07-31T14:51:16 < zyp> no, you can read the pin regardless
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2019-07-31T14:53:02 < zyp> are you trying to measure pwm for power regulation or a pwm-based signal?
2019-07-31T14:53:31 < zyp> the latter are usually designed so that the allowable pwm range never hits 0 or 100%
2019-07-31T14:53:44 < rajkosto> well this is supposed to pwm a LED
2019-07-31T14:53:44 < zyp> e.g. 5-95%, with values above/below being an error
2019-07-31T14:53:47 < rajkosto> i need to read that signal
2019-07-31T14:53:57 < rajkosto> the LED can be fully on or off
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2019-07-31T15:04:20 < Thorn> Progress launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg
2019-07-31T15:06:48 < Cracki> then what he recommended should work just fine
2019-07-31T15:07:43 < Cracki> you can set the timeout to whatever period you measured previously, or to some worst-case period like 100 hz or whatever
2019-07-31T15:07:58 < Cracki> (measured + a bit)
2019-07-31T15:08:55 < zyp> another approach may be using a gated timer
2019-07-31T15:09:05 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFMYYTdVC4Q
2019-07-31T15:10:01 < zyp> if you gate it on the pwm signal and let it run for n cycles (counted by another timer), you'll get 0-n cycles counted depending on the pwm level
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2019-07-31T16:03:48 < rajkosto> but then it might not be aligned properly to the input frequency
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2019-07-31T16:35:39 < karlp> problems I never knew I still don't have: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hotwave#/
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2019-07-31T16:37:26 < jadew> what's the use case?
2019-07-31T16:39:01 < zyp> for occations where you have too much money
2019-07-31T16:39:11 < jadew> heh
2019-07-31T16:39:56 < aandrew> sigh
2019-07-31T16:40:18 < aandrew> funky weird shit trying to get ethernet working on this design. works great on dev boards so I know the code is fine
2019-07-31T16:40:24 < aandrew> but this PHY may be wonky
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2019-07-31T16:41:22 < aandrew> karlp: heh. my dad just brought the hot over to the outside tap and you can mix it in the basement before sending it out
2019-07-31T16:41:30 < aandrew> he didn't like washing the car in ice cold water
2019-07-31T16:42:31 < sync> I prefer my high pressure steam cleaner karlp
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2019-07-31T16:44:09 < karlp> aandrew: this gigabit or what?
2019-07-31T16:45:43 < sync> https://bilder.landwirt.com/0916/a5a720c317fe4d9f6805f2a80b87e488.jpg 👌
2019-07-31T16:46:35 < zyp> karlp, the math of that thing doesn't really add up
2019-07-31T16:47:19 < zyp> 120V 15A is 1800W, it claims it can raise the temperature of the water like 33K
2019-07-31T16:47:42 < dongs> aandrew: did you see my relay shit
2019-07-31T16:47:49 < zyp> with that power, you'll get a bit less than 0.8l of hot water per minute
2019-07-31T16:48:12 < zyp> have fun filling up a pool with that
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2019-07-31T16:50:08 < karlp> zyp: I'm not buying it, just liked seeing a "brand" using indiegogo
2019-07-31T16:50:30 < zyp> yeah, I'm just pointing out why it's useless
2019-07-31T16:55:03 < aandrew> karlp: no regular 100mbit RMII but using a DP83630 PHY which is a little weird
2019-07-31T16:55:10 < aandrew> dongs: hold on let me scroll back
2019-07-31T16:56:23 < karlp> aandrew: lots of issues on linux-sunxi with some of the gigabit phys and some poorly documented timing registers
2019-07-31T16:56:30 < zyp> aandrew, what's the problem? I've got some experience debugging weird ethernet
2019-07-31T16:57:48 < aandrew> karlp: nah I got gige working with a dp83867 and max10. no issues there :-)
2019-07-31T16:57:53 < aandrew> and yes it can be... fun
2019-07-31T16:59:08 < aandrew> zyp: just using HAL, I've mapped the SMI address, SR and BCR from the default LAN8742A to what the new phy wants
2019-07-31T16:59:15 < aandrew> I'm talking to the PHY just fine
2019-07-31T16:59:39 < aandrew> HAL just sets BCR=0x8000 to reset, waits, then reads SR to look for link up
2019-07-31T16:59:44 < aandrew> (in autonegotiate mode)
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2019-07-31T17:00:11 < aandrew> I never get link up -- the PHY detects MDIX (use a different cable and it says no MDIX so that's fine) but no link on the switch or the PHY
2019-07-31T17:00:36 < aandrew> set to non-autoneg and link will SOMETIMES come up at 100fdx (it's a 3' cable to a known-good switch)
2019-07-31T17:02:01 < zyp> sounds similar to my problem, I also only sometimes got a link, but probably at a higher success rate than yours
2019-07-31T17:02:06 < zyp> got a schematic?
2019-07-31T17:02:47 < aandrew> yes, one moment
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2019-07-31T17:13:25 < superbia> help
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2019-07-31T17:39:45 < bitmask> is there a way in altium to select all traces? or all on one layer
2019-07-31T17:39:49 < bitmask> traces would be better
2019-07-31T17:40:06 < zyp> yes
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2019-07-31T17:42:42 < bitmask> hah thanks
2019-07-31T17:53:08 < PaulFertser> So folks, what can you say about this UK near-accident: https://www.strongspace.com/shared/pmxm3gd7ou ? The author claims he didn't violate any Rule from the Highway Code and was doing perfectly fine.
2019-07-31T17:54:07 < jadew> PaulFertser, I can tell you it's not loading fast enough
2019-07-31T17:54:36 < PaulFertser> jadew: well, "wget" is your friend, and we're not in a hurry.
2019-07-31T17:56:57 < mawk> the site never loads
2019-07-31T17:57:04 < mawk> ah yes it does
2019-07-31T17:57:22 < canton7> They're both idiots. One undertook, the other didn't check the lane he was moving into
2019-07-31T17:58:26 < jadew> the guy who didn't check was at fault
2019-07-31T17:58:32 < jadew> that other guy came from a different branch
2019-07-31T17:58:50 < canton7> by the time that the van undertook, it was in a proper lane
2019-07-31T17:58:57 < jadew> he wasn't supposed to stop and give way to another guy from a different branch
2019-07-31T17:59:15 < PaulFertser> jadew: apparently according to the highway code you can't just pass on the left even if somebody's hogging the fast lane and you're just going forward without changing lanes (unless in a traffic jam or some such).
2019-07-31T17:59:19 < jadew> sure, but they didn't merge, so he didn't have to give way
2019-07-31T17:59:38 < jadew> PaulFertser, yeah, but it's different there
2019-07-31T17:59:40 < mawk> fast lane is on the right?
2019-07-31T17:59:45 < PaulFertser> mawk: yes, it's the UK
2019-07-31T17:59:51 < mawk> these english people do everything reversed
2019-07-31T18:00:02 < jadew> it depends on the law, but I hold the guy with the dashcam responsible
2019-07-31T18:00:08 < jadew> the other guy did absolutely nothing wrong
2019-07-31T18:00:17 < canton7> jadew, he did though - undertaking is illegal here
2019-07-31T18:00:18 < jadew> he had good speed for merging with the highway
2019-07-31T18:00:26 < jadew> canton7, he didn't undertake tho
2019-07-31T18:00:28 < PaulFertser> jadew: apparently that's indeed illegal: https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q891.htm
2019-07-31T18:00:41 < aandrew> wow that strongspace link is hideous
2019-07-31T18:00:45 < aandrew> can't stream for shit
2019-07-31T18:00:50 < jadew> what you're suggesting is that he should have stopped right where the lane merged with the highway and let everyone else pass
2019-07-31T18:01:05 < jadew> making that lane useless
2019-07-31T18:01:23 < PaulFertser> jadew: well, align the speed with the other lanes to the right, not fully stop.
2019-07-31T18:01:23 < aandrew> and downloading the 118MB movie wants to take 10m?! lol
2019-07-31T18:01:35 < canton7> he was on a sliproad which turns into a normal lane, at about 0.29
2019-07-31T18:01:39 < canton7> after 0.29, he's just on the inside lane
2019-07-31T18:01:44 < canton7> passing on the inside after 0.29 is illegal
2019-07-31T18:01:49 < PaulFertser> aandrew: downloaded here in 1:50 1,41MB/s
2019-07-31T18:02:00 < aandrew> maybe some geolocation thing
2019-07-31T18:02:03 < aandrew> hates canadians
2019-07-31T18:02:07 < PaulFertser> canton7: are you from the UK?
2019-07-31T18:02:08 < aandrew> typical racist bs 
2019-07-31T18:02:10 < canton7> yes
2019-07-31T18:02:10 < jadew> you're probably right, the fact that people are driving on the wrong side is confusing me
2019-07-31T18:02:51 < bitmask> wtf, in altium, why on some components does it highlight the pad when routing a trace but when I put the mouse on the pad I don't get that circle in the center and I can't connect to the pad
2019-07-31T18:03:02 < aandrew> bitmask: wrong layer?
2019-07-31T18:03:09 < bitmask> nope
2019-07-31T18:03:14 < canton7> but, I think if there had been an accident, both would have been held responsible to varying degrees. 
2019-07-31T18:03:17 < aandrew> bad snap option set? (shift-e toggles I think)
2019-07-31T18:03:39 < bitmask> oh that worked
2019-07-31T18:03:40 < bitmask> weird
2019-07-31T18:03:40 < bitmask> thanks
2019-07-31T18:04:02 < jadew> canton7, tbh, I think it's neither's fault
2019-07-31T18:04:47 < jadew> it should have been marked with a continuous line for the higher speed lane, so they couldn't merge with the lower speed one (for a lot longer)
2019-07-31T18:05:05 < aandrew> now that I've seen the vid -- the dude with the cam is being a cock, but not sure that it's illegal. is that a normal on-ramp and he's in the slow (vs passing) lane?
2019-07-31T18:05:12 < jadew> and only the guy on what was the acceleration lane should have been allowed to merge
2019-07-31T18:05:24 < aandrew> or is that one of the weird merge lanes that merges in on the passing lane
2019-07-31T18:05:41 < canton7> jadew, I don't follow. There's no continuous line there?
2019-07-31T18:05:55 < canton7> it's a slip road which turns into a normal lane. You can see the line change at 0.29
2019-07-31T18:06:02 < canton7> you get them all the time on the M25
2019-07-31T18:06:11 < aandrew> canton7: what's a "slip road"
2019-07-31T18:06:26 < jadew> canton7, I closed the video, but I mean is that the continuous line should be a lot longer
2019-07-31T18:06:32 < jadew> but only on the highway side
2019-07-31T18:06:43 < jadew> so the people merging have the time to accelerate/adjust speed
2019-07-31T18:06:46 < aandrew> in canada (drive on right) MOST merge lanes merge with the slower (rightmost) lane, but there are a few where the lane merges with the passing (leftmost) lane
2019-07-31T18:06:52 < aandrew> those are kind of hairy at times
2019-07-31T18:07:00 < jadew> and not be bothered by others who drive at random speeds
2019-07-31T18:07:21 < canton7> jadew, which line do you mean by the "continuous" line? Do you mean the dashes between the slip road and the main carriageway?
2019-07-31T18:07:28 < jadew> yes
2019-07-31T18:07:35 < jadew> the marking that prevents you to change lanes
2019-07-31T18:08:02 < jadew> if that was the case, all this could have been avoided and if it happened anyway, it would have been the merger's fault
2019-07-31T18:08:09 < aandrew> ultimately the van merging is responsible for his own safety and shouldn't make assumptions about drivers "letting him in", but the guy with teh dashcam should have either moved over or otherwise adjusted his speed to allow the van to merge safely
2019-07-31T18:08:15 < jadew> because you could consider that he had plenty of time to adjust his speed
2019-07-31T18:08:18 < canton7> no, it's an indication that there's a slip road. The main carriageway shouldn't move onto the slip road, but people can move off it
2019-07-31T18:08:58 < canton7> a solid white line stops you from changing lines, but you wouldn't get one of those between a slip road and the main carriageway
2019-07-31T18:09:13 < jadew> canton7, you get that here
2019-07-31T18:09:14 < PaulFertser> aandrew: the point is that the van didn't need to merge really. It was on his own lane, it didn't need to change lanes at all to "merge".
2019-07-31T18:09:59 < jadew> canton7, exactly because people need to be able to adjust their speed in order to merge safely
2019-07-31T18:09:59 < canton7> yeah, there's no need for the car to let the van in, as the slip road turns into its own lane
2019-07-31T18:10:30 < canton7> right, and the sliproad (with that close dashed line) is a fairly normal length. You're saying the slip road should be longer here?
2019-07-31T18:10:40 < aandrew> PaulFertser: oh wait
2019-07-31T18:10:53 < canton7> it's got to turn into a proper land at some point, so you're just moving the problem around
2019-07-31T18:10:55 < canton7> *lane
2019-07-31T18:11:02 < aandrew> PaulFertser: van did not change lanes at all, he got run off the road because camera car switched lanes without checking
2019-07-31T18:11:14 < jadew> canton7, well, you have to give people time to adjust their speed
2019-07-31T18:11:20 < PaulFertser> aandrew: exactly
2019-07-31T18:11:25 < jadew> normally when you merge you go for however fast you can go
2019-07-31T18:11:31 < jadew> so you don't bother others on the highway
2019-07-31T18:11:38 < aandrew> yeah camera car is 100% in the wrong there. he did not check over his shoulder before switching lanes
2019-07-31T18:11:43 < canton7> right, and normally that slip road's long enough to do that. But not in this case, because the slip road turns into a normal lane
2019-07-31T18:11:55 < jadew> yeah
2019-07-31T18:12:13 < aandrew> I'm clearly not fully awake yet, I thought van lane ended or was one of those enter+exit lanes which is a pain in the dick
2019-07-31T18:12:58 < canton7> I mean, you don't need to let anyone adjust their speed in this case, because the sliproad turns into a normal lane
2019-07-31T18:13:27 < jadew> canton7, yeah, but then you run the risk of having higher speed than the guy on the next lane
2019-07-31T18:13:31 < jadew> and he might want to change lanes
2019-07-31T18:13:32 < aandrew> canton7: yep. camera car 100% in the wrong here
2019-07-31T18:13:44 < canton7> aandrew, the van did undertake, which is illegal
2019-07-31T18:13:54 < canton7> I'm standing by my opinion that both are at varying levels of fault
2019-07-31T18:14:08 < aandrew> canton7: if camera car was slowing down it does not require van to also slow down
2019-07-31T18:14:09 < jadew> yes, they do
2019-07-31T18:14:11 < aandrew> we don't know what was happenning though
2019-07-31T18:14:26 < jadew> but if the guy who changed lanes wasn't allowed to change lanes, it wouldn't have happened
2019-07-31T18:14:37 < aandrew> if camera car was slowing becuase he wanted to go to the slowest lane and there's a car already there he should not have tried to merge
2019-07-31T18:15:00 < canton7> jadew, the sliproad's got to end at some point ><
2019-07-31T18:15:01 < aandrew> van could have just as easily gone into camera car's lane and avoided this, but there's no requirement for that
2019-07-31T18:15:13 < aandrew> especially if camera car was not signalling
2019-07-31T18:15:15 < jadew> canton7, yeah, but I think it was too short there
2019-07-31T18:15:46 < canton7> also, people merging should be matching the speed of the lane they're merging into, not gunning it
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2019-07-31T18:16:18 < aandrew> canton7: but van isn't merging
2019-07-31T18:16:31 < salcedo> last week, i was merging onto the highway. some lady already on the highway sped up to match my speed so she would be right next to me. started honking her horn and flipping me off - having a temper tantrum. then floored it, lost control, crashed into the median.
2019-07-31T18:16:37 < canton7> so if the van *was* trying to merge over, he should have pulled in behind the camera car
2019-07-31T18:16:39 < jadew> also, when you're merging, if someone is going really slow, you'
2019-07-31T18:16:44 < aandrew> and that onramp-that-becomes-the-slowest-lane isn't ending
2019-07-31T18:16:45 < jadew> you're better off going faster
2019-07-31T18:16:50 < jadew> and merging in front of them
2019-07-31T18:16:53 < canton7> aandrew, oh I agree completely. jadew doesn't
2019-07-31T18:17:20 < aandrew> canton7: yep, but if camera car wasn't signalling van would have no idea what camera car was doing. similar if camera car was coasting to decelerate instead of braking, van wouldn't know he was slowing
2019-07-31T18:18:01 < salcedo> it didn't look like a serious crash, so i kept going.
2019-07-31T18:18:11 < canton7> Even if the camera car was slowing (and I don't think he was), I think the correct behaviour for the van is to match its speed as it slows
2019-07-31T18:19:05 < jadew> salcedo, sounds like you caused an accident
2019-07-31T18:19:11 < jadew> how did you piss off that woman?
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2019-07-31T18:19:25 < aandrew> canton7: I woudln't have matched speed. usually when I'm coming on to a highway I'm *accelerating* -- passing on the "wrong" side isn't a major fault, particularly since I'm likely going ot me continuing to acclerate to get into one of the faster lanes
2019-07-31T18:19:26 < canton7> ah, undertaking itself isn't illegal, but might be deemed careless
2019-07-31T18:19:39 < salcedo> jadew: no. i was stuck in the onramp the entire time because she was intentionally making it impossible for me to merge.
2019-07-31T18:20:11 < aandrew> salcedo: too bad you don't have cam footage. #stm32-carcam is pretty lively today
2019-07-31T18:20:28 < salcedo> i do not. which stm32's are you using for this?
2019-07-31T18:20:51 < canton7> aandrew, If someone starts randomly decelerating, I tend to think "wtf are they doing", and stay clear :P
2019-07-31T18:20:58 < salcedo> would be awesome to make my own dash cam that isn't some chinesium spyware garbage
2019-07-31T18:21:14 < canton7> aandrew, and this isn't a merging situation - past 0.29, the sliproad is a distraction I think
2019-07-31T18:21:30 < salcedo> jadew: btw i am driving a big ass cargo van vs her shitty car whatever it was. ford focus or something.
2019-07-31T18:22:27 < salcedo> jadew: i think i started it because i was merging at a constant speed and was going to end up a few car lengths in front of her as long as we both maintained our speeds. she noticebly sped up and got right beside me, started honking and flipping the f*ck out at me. driving all erratically.
2019-07-31T18:22:47 < salcedo> so i'm like "heh... " and slowed way down because i was running out of lane and couldn't merge, as i'd be merging into her.
2019-07-31T18:23:32 < salcedo> next thing i know, she roars off ahead of me, still swerving around, crashes into the guardrail thingy in the middle of the highway and slams on her brakes. slamming her phone on the steering wheel.
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2019-07-31T18:23:35 < salcedo> must have ran out of xanax.
2019-07-31T18:23:46 < salcedo> this is a common occurance where i live though.
2019-07-31T18:24:31 < salcedo> look up "ohio drivers" on youtube and you'll find a lot of it.
2019-07-31T18:24:32 < aandrew> canton7: well it is a merge; camera car is merging into the "new" slow lane
2019-07-31T18:24:37 < aandrew> canton7: but yes, sliproad doesn't matter
2019-07-31T18:24:45 < aandrew> this is just camera car not looking before merging
2019-07-31T18:24:51 < aandrew> s/merging/changing lanes/
2019-07-31T18:25:00 < canton7> aandrew, true, I was referring to the van merging onto the highway
2019-07-31T18:25:25 < aandrew> salcedo: I have the odd driver that does htat. "how dare you merge in front of me" mentality
2019-07-31T18:25:35 < canton7> agreed. The car should definitely have checked and is definitely at fault, and the van would probably also get cited for some level of dangerous driving
2019-07-31T18:25:45 < salcedo> yea. this lady was clearly having a pissing contest and it ended bad for her.
2019-07-31T18:25:56 < rajkosto> is there a trick with ws2812b to set all the leds in a strip to the same color without knowing the amount of leds in it ?
2019-07-31T18:26:06 < aandrew> canton7: yep. I suspect that's how it'd happen in canada too. "it's not your fault, but you weren't exactly driving by the letter of the law"
2019-07-31T18:26:11 < salcedo> i wasn't about to stop to help because then it would end in jail time for me.
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2019-07-31T18:26:25 < aandrew> rajkosto: just clock out twice the number of LEDs you ever expect to have :-)
2019-07-31T18:26:40 < rajkosto> yeah but that takes a while
2019-07-31T18:27:00 < canton7> They're both contributing factors -- if either had driven differently, the situation wouldn't have occurred
2019-07-31T18:27:11 < canton7> also baffled as to why the van didn't brake when the car moved over
2019-07-31T18:27:14 < salcedo> i have no dash cam to prove any lies told by a crazy person. working poor person in a beat up cargo van vs. uptight spoiled brat = spoiled brat wins.
2019-07-31T18:28:13 < canton7> I got a dash cam after someone almost reversed into me on a sliproad
2019-07-31T18:28:20 < salcedo> rofl
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2019-07-31T18:28:39 < salcedo> some guy in a mazda 5 stick shift came 2mm from bumping into me at a stoplight today
2019-07-31T18:28:49 < salcedo> guy was texting and didn't realize he's rolling backwards
2019-07-31T18:29:12 < salcedo> i honked my horn and scared the crap out of the poor guy
2019-07-31T18:29:17 < salcedo> started grinding his gears
2019-07-31T18:29:47 < salcedo> glad he wasn't deaf.
2019-07-31T18:29:58 < aandrew> hm, why the fuck is ozone not letting me switch to the stack of different threads
2019-07-31T18:30:12 < aandrew> I see all the threads but can't double click one to get its stack
2019-07-31T18:30:16 < salcedo> i cannot afford to lose what little i have over some idiot rolling backwards into me and then blaming me for rear ending him.
2019-07-31T18:30:26 < aandrew> salcedo: get yourself a cam
2019-07-31T18:31:21 < salcedo> really need to
2019-07-31T18:32:02 < aandrew> I'd love to have the 360 cam on my wife's car recording 
2019-07-31T18:32:35 < aandrew> bought a busted module off ebay just to see what was in it. the cameras are all digital and send back to an FPGA which is doing the fun stuff
2019-07-31T18:32:40 < Thorn> progress docking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg
2019-07-31T18:32:49 < salcedo> you know you've messed up majorly on the road
2019-07-31T18:32:51 < aandrew> might not be too hard to tap it and record with something
2019-07-31T18:32:54 < salcedo> maybe gotten into an accident?
2019-07-31T18:33:50 < salcedo> we all make mistakes and almost cause bad things to happen - but what scares me more than that is the fact that whenever I make a mistake like this, i look around like "shit... sorry everybody." and THEY'RE ALL BURIED IN THEIR FUCKING PHONES.
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2019-07-31T18:39:28 < bitmask> I need to get better at routing
2019-07-31T18:39:28 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/AtP9CiN.png
2019-07-31T18:39:47 < bitmask> this actually isn't as bad as it was but I don't really know what i'm doing :P
2019-07-31T18:42:40 < canton7> don't be afraid of vias :P
2019-07-31T18:43:54 < Thorn> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32992283065.html
2019-07-31T18:44:48 < rajkosto> bah for some reason im not getting SWO in the Terminal output channel in Eclipse using J-Link plugin anymore
2019-07-31T18:44:57 < rajkosto> even tho it shows in the J-Link SWV tab that it received bytes
2019-07-31T18:46:21 < salcedo> bitmask: those are your led thingies right?
2019-07-31T18:46:38 < bitmask> yea
2019-07-31T18:46:43 < bitmask> attempting a pcb version
2019-07-31T18:46:49 < salcedo> you probably don't want the not-leds on the top of the pcb, right?
2019-07-31T18:46:58 < salcedo> or is that ok?
2019-07-31T18:47:07 < bitmask> it doesn't matter
2019-07-31T18:47:16 < bitmask> probably better to keep it all on top actually
2019-07-31T18:47:26 < salcedo> is the pcb going to be cut out like that 3d printed frame you showed earlier? or is it going to sit on top of that plastic frame?
2019-07-31T18:47:29 < bitmask> to have the bottom flat which goes against the glass/acrylic
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2019-07-31T18:47:36 < salcedo> ah yes
2019-07-31T18:47:49 < bitmask> I was thinking of cutting holes int he pcb to have the digit cover clip in
2019-07-31T18:48:03 < bitmask> so screw the pcb to the acrylic and the 3d printed cover pops on
2019-07-31T18:48:04 < salcedo> 2 layers, for something like this i would make one side the vcc and the other side ground.
2019-07-31T18:48:13 < salcedo> if only to make it super easy to route
2019-07-31T18:48:14 < bitmask> yea thats what I was gonna do
2019-07-31T18:48:31 < salcedo> and put your vias under the leds
2019-07-31T18:48:40 < bitmask> I was gonna try to keep all the traces on top but maybe I should listen to canton
2019-07-31T18:48:41 < rajkosto> Thorn, it cant make up its mind if its DDR3 or DDR4
2019-07-31T18:49:31 < canton7> bitmask, the routing around U3 is very clever, but you've got 3 pads you can't get out
2019-07-31T18:50:19 < bitmask> I was gonna use vias there
2019-07-31T18:50:46 < salcedo> never played with these leds before
2019-07-31T18:50:56 < salcedo> it's just a two wire bus (but not i2c) ?
2019-07-31T18:51:02 < bitmask> one wire
2019-07-31T18:51:12 < salcedo> is there a clock tho?
2019-07-31T18:51:14 < canton7> you might as well use a via for for that trace that loops around the bottom of U3 (route it off to the right, rather than the left, where there's plenty of room), and that frees up 2 pads
2019-07-31T18:51:28 < bitmask> they are ws2813 (ws2812 with a second input incase one led goes bad)
2019-07-31T18:51:29 < salcedo> how does each led know what address it is? how do YOU know?
2019-07-31T18:51:43 < rajkosto> salcedo, it just depends on routing
2019-07-31T18:51:48 < salcedo> ah
2019-07-31T18:51:51 < bitmask> its not a bus
2019-07-31T18:51:53 < rajkosto> they arent actually addressable.
2019-07-31T18:52:01 < rajkosto> the bits out of DIN of one come out its DOUT
2019-07-31T18:52:04 < bitmask> it just shifts out the data to the next
2019-07-31T18:52:08 < rajkosto> so its just a shift-register-like chain
2019-07-31T18:52:14 < salcedo> ah gotcha
2019-07-31T18:52:24 < Thorn> rajkosto: the funny thing is it's not RAM at all
2019-07-31T18:52:35 < rajkosto> i figured
2019-07-31T18:52:39 < canton7> (there *is* a 1-wire bus. That's fun)
2019-07-31T18:52:40 < rajkosto> i thought it was just shiny LEDs
2019-07-31T18:52:44 < rajkosto> but no its not even that
2019-07-31T18:52:45 < Thorn> it's some kind of audioph00l crap
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2019-07-31T18:56:48 < bitmask> how many mils should I have between the led and the resistor and capacitor?
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2019-07-31T18:59:28 < rajkosto> dongs, what does this mean https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-07-31_17-59-21_CI1mllHUu.png why isnt it detecting any packets
2019-07-31T19:01:56 < Thorn> SpaceX Aerial Fly Over in 3 hours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw57jVG_WYY 
2019-07-31T19:07:29 < ColdKeyboard> Does anyone have a nice library for SSD1306 OLED driver to recommend?
2019-07-31T19:11:24 < Thorn> I wrote my own, not complicated
2019-07-31T19:14:47 < rajkosto> yep just set all the pixels, upload via spi dma
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2019-07-31T19:16:33 < rajkosto> i had the SWO wire loose or something nvm my problem dongs
2019-07-31T19:18:35 < ColdKeyboard> Thorn: Do you have a good datasheet for it?
2019-07-31T19:18:45 < ColdKeyboard> The one I have lists registers but it's super vague
2019-07-31T19:19:14 < ColdKeyboard> I have the driver "working" now but my screen is cut-off and I'm assuming it's because I'm setting the page/column addresses wrong
2019-07-31T19:20:00 < rajkosto> which screen you have
2019-07-31T19:20:03 < rajkosto> 128x64 or 128x32
2019-07-31T19:21:42 < ColdKeyboard> I have 64x48 one (it's in landscape mode so 48x64)
2019-07-31T19:23:14 < rajkosto> https://pastebin.com/RWDRmyrZ go nuts
2019-07-31T19:23:56 < rajkosto> never tried yours
2019-07-31T19:25:12 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks rajkosto, I'll give it a try!
2019-07-31T19:25:39 < salcedo> what is this libopencm3 heresy!!$!
2019-07-31T19:25:48 < salcedo> j/k thanks rajkosto i'm stealing this too :)
2019-07-31T19:25:55 < rajkosto> its trash
2019-07-31T19:26:06 < rajkosto> i eventually switched to blitting to a full bit-framebuffer and just SPI-DMA-ing it
2019-07-31T19:26:56 < salcedo> one of my current kicad disasters is rfm95w and omega2s+ (the mips module that runs openwrt)
2019-07-31T19:27:18 < Thorn> ColdKeyboard: I used aidsfruit code as a reference, they have settings for several different displays iirc
2019-07-31T19:27:57 < salcedo> would it be better to use stm32 to drive the rfm95w and communicate via uart between stm32 and omega2? namely because i will be needing to use the rfm95w's interrupt pins.
2019-07-31T19:28:09 < salcedo> and i'm not sure about this in linux
2019-07-31T19:28:16 < ColdKeyboard> Thorn: same, I used that as a reference plus the initialization code that I got as a "reference" but page/column offsets are all messed up
2019-07-31T19:28:26 < mawk> on linux you can listen for interrupts yes salcedo 
2019-07-31T19:28:27 < mawk> on GPIO pins
2019-07-31T19:28:28 < rajkosto> pretty sure mine is from some aidsfruit as well
2019-07-31T19:28:30 < mawk> pretty easily
2019-07-31T19:28:37 < rajkosto> but just the magic values
2019-07-31T19:28:54 < salcedo> mawk: is it fast though? DIO2 on the rfm95w is used for fhsschangefrequency interrupt. this will need to be essentially real time.
2019-07-31T19:29:21 < mawk> yes you can do realtime in linux with the proper patches
2019-07-31T19:29:47 < mawk> the preempt-rt patch is pretty popular, it's in main distro repositories; after you have that you just spin up a thread with realtime priority
2019-07-31T19:30:15 < salcedo> will this require going into linux kernel driver coding rabbit hole?
2019-07-31T19:30:20 < mawk> no, it's userspace
2019-07-31T19:30:55 < mawk> but you can do it in the kernel too if you want, without the preempt-rt patch I think
2019-07-31T19:31:06 < salcedo> i'm not fully understanding. you're saying all i have to do is bodge openwrt build process for a realtime kernel patch... then i somehow designate my userspace code to run realtime?
2019-07-31T19:31:44 < mawk> yes
2019-07-31T19:31:49 < mawk> it's pretty simple
2019-07-31T19:32:03 < salcedo> hmm... this does seem like a better approach. but i'm going to have to proto it.
2019-07-31T19:32:41 < salcedo> i was going to throw an stm32l0 with tsc and use it for the interface for the "router"
2019-07-31T19:33:09 < Cracki> "somehow" could be $ chrt <prio> ./helloworld arg
2019-07-31T19:33:13 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
2019-07-31T19:33:14 < Cracki> *sudo
2019-07-31T19:33:14 < mawk> https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/realtime/documentation/howto/applications/application_base
2019-07-31T19:33:16 < Cracki> +
2019-07-31T19:33:42 < salcedo> i2c oled, a few capacitive touch keys, and have it drive the rfm95w too. then that whole bit of stuff would be driven over uart
2019-07-31T19:33:54 < salcedo> it's kind of the existing setup i have on my gl-mifi
2019-07-31T19:34:06 < PaulFertser> mawk: isn't it an easier and less error-prone approach to dedicate a uC for the task if the devoloper is not going to cut mass-production costs by all means possible?
2019-07-31T19:34:09 < salcedo> which is a terrible hack, but it works.
2019-07-31T19:34:26 < englishman> PaulFertser: depends when the camera car started signalling I guess. plus if undertaking is illegal too then rip
2019-07-31T19:34:34 < salcedo> i'm going gl-mifi <-> d1 mini over wifi <-> uart <-> adafruit feather + lora
2019-07-31T19:35:12 < PaulFertser> mawk: I mean, so many things can go wrong with compiling patched kernel (and then upgrading the OpenWrt version) etc etc. Why not just stick a dedicated controller to be on the safe side?
2019-07-31T19:35:25 < mawk> yes PaulFertser , it's what I'd do I guess
2019-07-31T19:35:26 < salcedo> which is cool. it works. but it's a very roundabout way to make my lora gateway
2019-07-31T19:35:28 < mawk> using a µc
2019-07-31T19:35:32 < PaulFertser> englishman: so do you consider the cam driver to be not at fault at all?
2019-07-31T19:36:34 < PaulFertser> I agree it's way cooler to have Linux do everything and to be able to provide RT guarantees with it. But meh, probably not worth suggesting to a person without kernel hacking background?
2019-07-31T19:36:46 < englishman> if he signalled his intention to change lanes, then the van should not have overtaken. if it's illegal there to pass on the slow side, and he was signalling, then it's probably 200% the vans fault. but that doesn't mean that it could have been prevented by both parties
2019-07-31T19:37:11 < englishman> couldn't have
2019-07-31T19:38:36 < PaulFertser> englishman: ok, thank you. So far you're the first to support his view.
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2019-07-31T19:42:50 < PaulFertser> mawk: e.g. it might happen that some of the drivers specific to that OpenWrt target are buggy and do not work with RT properly or at all.
2019-07-31T19:43:01 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-31T19:43:44 < salcedo> yea
2019-07-31T19:44:04 < salcedo> i'm fairly confident i could get it working fully in openwrt.
2019-07-31T19:44:17 < salcedo> it's a matter of time/convenience/how much effort i want to put into it though.
2019-07-31T19:44:54 < salcedo> if using stm32 as the driver avoids me weeks of neckbearding over linux realtime mips crap...
2019-07-31T19:45:06 < mawk> you could have to modify drivers and stuff yes
2019-07-31T19:45:13 < mawk> some parts of the linux kernel aren't especially well written
2019-07-31T19:45:17 < mawk> especially the modules that are not used often
2019-07-31T19:45:34 < salcedo> yeah. which i have done before on arm targets and openwrt - to get spi nand flashes that aren't standard to work and such.
2019-07-31T19:45:46 < salcedo> so i'm not afraid to get dirty. it's just ... do i WANT to.
2019-07-31T19:46:43 < salcedo> all of the rfm95w code i've seen for linux is python crap derived from radiohead
2019-07-31T19:47:14 < mawk> the linux gpio api isn't that bad
2019-07-31T19:47:16 < salcedo> it doesn't use the interrupts.
2019-07-31T19:47:30 < mawk> they just went to the new model for GPIO that is horrible for security
2019-07-31T19:47:41 < mawk> if you give access to 1 GPIO port you give access to all of them
2019-07-31T19:48:00 < mawk> some just ditch all of that and write to the raw GPIO control blocks in memory
2019-07-31T19:48:07 < salcedo> ofc. because we need WebGPIO
2019-07-31T19:48:16 < mawk> there is a special /dev/gpiomem peripheral for that that exposes only the gpio control blocks to not compromise the whole system
2019-07-31T19:48:27 < salcedo> all PCs are just dumb terminals for google, right? riiiiiiiight!
2019-07-31T19:48:47 < mawk> with the beaglebone blacks you have some web IDE preinstalled
2019-07-31T19:48:56 < mawk> even with stm32, there is the mbed stuff on nucleo boards
2019-07-31T19:49:27 < salcedo> mbed stuff baked in?
2019-07-31T19:50:13 < mawk> yes on nucleo boards when you plug them in you have like a usb stick 
2019-07-31T19:50:26 < mawk> with a shortcut to mbed and ability to do drag n drop programming
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2019-07-31T20:05:06 < ColdKeyboard> Thorn, rajkosto; Lol, so the driver was fine all along but retarded display is somehow hooked from column 40 through 88... so if you set it to go from 0 to 48 you get only 8 of them working.
2019-07-31T20:05:28 < rajkosto> are you sure the "portrait mode" can work ?
2019-07-31T20:05:36 < rajkosto> you always give it "columns" of 8 pixels each right
2019-07-31T20:05:46 < ColdKeyboard> Yes it works fine, I'm showing images on it now without any issues
2019-07-31T20:06:38 < ColdKeyboard> I'm not sure if it's this Alibaba mfg that hooks it up this way or is it every 48x64 OLED with SSD1306...
2019-07-31T20:06:53 < rajkosto> probably every
2019-07-31T20:07:06 < ColdKeyboard> Yeah, could be... Anyway, thanks for the help guys
2019-07-31T20:07:13 < rajkosto> this "offset" isnt uncommon
2019-07-31T20:07:24 < rajkosto> its super common on the LCD controllers that are like 256x256 but the display is only 240x240 etc
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2019-07-31T20:11:53 < salcedo> mawk: so THATs what that usb mass storage device is
2019-07-31T20:11:58 < salcedo> i never bothered to mount it and see what was there
2019-07-31T20:12:03 < mawk> yeah
2019-07-31T20:12:12 < salcedo> this is on the "first" stm32 that is used for st-link right?
2019-07-31T20:12:16 < salcedo> it's not on the main chip?
2019-07-31T20:12:24 < rajkosto> its the same on stlinkv2.1 that is configured to have full functionality (MSD mode)
2019-07-31T20:12:25 < mawk> yes exactly
2019-07-31T20:12:38 < mawk> you can get spare stlink v2-1 rajkosto ?
2019-07-31T20:12:41 < mawk> no only on nucleo boards ?
2019-07-31T20:12:50 < rajkosto> you can drag any binary file on there and it will flash it
2019-07-31T20:13:01 < salcedo> i wasn't planning on getting an stlink becasue i can just chop the one off my nucleo lol
2019-07-31T20:17:23 < jpa-> or just use it without chopping off
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2019-07-31T20:20:09 < mawk> you remove the two "nucleo" jumpers salcedo 
2019-07-31T20:20:13 < mawk> then you can use the header on the left
2019-07-31T20:20:33 < emeb> downside - I've had several nucleo boards on which the ST-Link just died.
2019-07-31T20:20:44 < rajkosto> why do tarduino github repos have the worst and uneven code style ever done
2019-07-31T20:20:55 < emeb> plug it in to USB and the r/g LED just blinks read and never enumerates.
2019-07-31T20:22:02 < emeb> s/read/red/
2019-07-31T20:27:19 < salcedo> what if i want to chop it off?
2019-07-31T20:27:24 < salcedo> what if i REALLY like chopping shit?
2019-07-31T20:30:06 < mawk> it's set up correctly emeb ?
2019-07-31T20:30:09 < mawk> all the jumpers
2019-07-31T20:30:24 < mawk> then you'd need to change a few solder bridges and add a crystal I think salcedo 
2019-07-31T20:30:35 < emeb> mawk: yes - it was on my bench, working fine one minute. next thing I know it's out in the weeds.
2019-07-31T20:31:04 < salcedo> mawk: afaik there is a procedure for this outlined in either the nucleo user manual or one of the ANs
2019-07-31T20:31:24 < mawk> yes
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2019-07-31T20:34:05 < salcedo> word. By golly BayerMonsanto! I'm lovin this stm32!
2019-07-31T20:35:01 < salcedo> soon i will have an empire of IoTs that make honeywell/amz/google hate me so much they'll be sending their hit squads.
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2019-07-31T20:46:21 < emeb> Hah - took a second, closer look at one of my dead nucleos. Seems that someone at the factory applies extra solder to the USB mounting tabs, by hand, but then doesn't clean flux off afterwards.
2019-07-31T20:46:49 < emeb> noticed some white debris and corrosion on the board between the F103 and USB connector. applied IPA and stiff brush and now it's working again.
2019-07-31T21:19:04 < rajkosto> ws2812b says it has reverse polarity protection
2019-07-31T21:19:05 < rajkosto> mine still died
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2019-07-31T21:24:52 < englishman> lol st using conductive flux
2019-07-31T21:24:58 < englishman> probably leaded solder too
2019-07-31T21:25:07 < englishman> fucking awful company
2019-07-31T21:31:41 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-07-31T21:41:50 < mawk> I tried washing the nasty flux from my nucleos
2019-07-31T21:42:01 < mawk> doesn't come off
2019-07-31T21:42:10 < salcedo> not even with IPA?
2019-07-31T21:42:43 < mawk> I had no ipa at that time
2019-07-31T21:42:50 < mawk> just acetone
2019-07-31T21:42:57 < mawk> but I scrapped hard
2019-07-31T21:43:02 < salcedo> yea no
2019-07-31T21:43:14 < salcedo> heat it up first to get it all gooey
2019-07-31T21:43:19 < salcedo> then it comes right off with alcohol
2019-07-31T21:44:36 < mawk> now I have 5 liters of IPA
2019-07-31T21:47:06 < scrtsw> 5 liters of cat pee
2019-07-31T21:47:08 < scrtsw> essentially
2019-07-31T21:47:19 < mawk> cat pee is ammoniac
2019-07-31T21:47:39 < rajkosto> why my code crash when a lookup table is in data but not when its in rodata
2019-07-31T21:48:18 < mawk> ipa is like acetone but alcohol instead
2019-07-31T21:48:30 < mawk> propan-2-ol
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2019-07-31T21:49:45 < emeb> maybe he was thinking india pale ale
2019-07-31T21:49:58 < emeb> some of that stuff is like cat pee
2019-07-31T21:50:03 < mawk> lol
2019-07-31T22:02:27 < rajkosto> it crashes with hard fault
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2019-07-31T22:19:21 < bitmask> alright, I gotta shrink down the traces and spacing which isn't a problem since the defaults are huge but getting close: https://i.imgur.com/wcv0nOJ.png
2019-07-31T22:19:30 < bitmask> just for the center one 
2019-07-31T22:19:42 < superbia> is that le rfid ?
2019-07-31T22:19:55 < rajkosto> RGB figure 8s
2019-07-31T22:20:00 < rajkosto> 9 segment displays
2019-07-31T22:20:10 < bitmask> 7 
2019-07-31T22:21:55 < bitmask> I kinda randomly chose 0804 for the cap and 0402 for the resistor, that should be fine
2019-07-31T22:22:06 < bitmask> I hope
2019-07-31T22:22:23 < emeb> what you using for a diffuser on each seg?
2019-07-31T22:22:54 < bitmask> 3d print
2019-07-31T22:24:21 < Steffanx> Hah going for zyp's suggestion now bitmask?  :)
2019-07-31T22:24:38 < bitmask> :) yup, only if I decide to try to sell a couple of these
2019-07-31T22:25:35 < bitmask> looks good for someone who has no idea what hes doing :P
2019-07-31T22:29:36 < emeb> Had another nucleo board where the RX input on the STLink stopped working. Just traced it out and discovered that the PA3 pin has an internal short to GND. Actually lifted the pin and it's still shorted. Must have been some hella ESD or something.
2019-07-31T22:34:14 < jadew> not sure if I mentioned this yesterday, but I got the BM 257
2019-07-31T22:34:33 < jadew> brymen has an online store in europe
2019-07-31T22:34:36 < jadew> which is cheaper than TME
2019-07-31T22:35:40 < jadew> https://brymen.eu/shop/
2019-07-31T22:36:08 < canton7> bitmask, you've got some weird floating islands in there
2019-07-31T22:37:17 < bitmask> how is it jadew? 
2019-07-31T22:37:32 < jadew> I don't know, it didn't get here yet (ordered it last night)
2019-07-31T22:37:36 < jadew> and it's for my dad, not for me
2019-07-31T22:37:37 < bitmask> do the floating islands matter?
2019-07-31T22:37:40 < bitmask> oh ok
2019-07-31T22:37:52 < bitmask> I was looking at the bm235, the eevblog blue one
2019-07-31T22:38:35 < superbia> fucking fucking bastard linux
2019-07-31T22:38:38 < superbia> my server is down
2019-07-31T22:38:50 < canton7> bitmask, it does weird stuff when you start adding high frequencies - probably doesn't matter for your stuff. But then a ground plane probably doesn't make any difference for you anyway, especially when it's cut into so many bits
2019-07-31T22:38:54 < jadew> bitmask, I wonder what the difference is and why I didn't notice it
2019-07-31T22:40:00 < canton7> bitmask, around U3if you route the top-right pin directly right (instead of looping it around to the left), then you can avoid that trace encroaching into that upper empty bit
2019-07-31T22:40:31 < bitmask> I looked up all the different models at one point but forget what the result was, the 235 seemed fine for me
2019-07-31T22:41:02 < canton7> bitmask, heck, if you route that trace from the top-left pin of U4 around the left-hand side of the pads, you can avoid vias there altogether
2019-07-31T22:42:16 < bitmask> I dont see how I can do that
2019-07-31T22:42:21 < bitmask> what am I missing
2019-07-31T22:42:57 < jadew> bitmask, looks like they're practically the same
2019-07-31T22:43:07 < jadew> I could have saved 14 eur
2019-07-31T22:44:08 < bitmask> canton7 I think I see what you mean
2019-07-31T22:45:19 < canton7> bitmask, https://imgur.com/4AcFYEA
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2019-07-31T22:46:58 < bitmask> thanks
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2019-07-31T22:49:57 < Steffanx> Dont die superbia  
2019-07-31T22:50:30 < superbia> sync halt
2019-07-31T22:51:27 < salcedo> what distro is it so i know what linux to never install
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2019-07-31T22:59:27 < superbia> alarm
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2019-07-31T23:55:54 < karlp> salcedo: depending on how really really realytime you want/think you need, you probably don't even need the -rt patchset. 
2019-07-31T23:56:19 < karlp> using the rfm module directly attached to linux is certainly a way, but you'll be learning some linux guts
2019-07-31T23:56:46 < karlp> but as paul said, doing it with a micro will be "simpler" but higher bom costs...
--- Log closed Thu Aug 01 00:00:34 2019