--- Log opened Thu Aug 01 00:00:34 2019
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2019-08-01T00:11:10 < salcedo> karlp: when operating in FHSS mode (by setting the hopperiod register to anything other than 0), the module sends an interrupt every hopperiod by raising DIO2
2019-08-01T00:11:46 < salcedo> the host mcu (or linux) would need to get this interrupt, send spi command to change frequency, clear the interrupt.
2019-08-01T00:12:17 < salcedo> during a transmission, this can be happening very quickly. (e.g. every few ms)
2019-08-01T00:13:16 < karlp> ie, nowhere near realtime :)
2019-08-01T00:13:33 < karlp> I would imagine you'd be perfectly fine with the -rt patchset.
2019-08-01T00:13:39 < salcedo> what i'm worried about is linux scheduler going "meh... you can wait" during a transmission and causing the module to be hopping out of sync with the other end
2019-08-01T00:13:46 < mawk> you mean without karlp ?
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2019-08-01T00:13:54 < karlp> yes, without the -rt patchset
2019-08-01T00:14:09 < mawk> 1ms is very long for a cpu salcedo 
2019-08-01T00:14:10 < karlp> but for a one/twooff, yeah, doing it via the stm32 will be "simpler"
2019-08-01T00:14:18 < mawk> for mips I don't know, I don't know which frequency you're at
2019-08-01T00:14:30 < karlp> onion2 is mt7620/7621 isn'tit?
2019-08-01T00:14:36 < salcedo> mt7688 i think
2019-08-01T00:15:37 < karlp> eh, htat's jus tmissing the router parts isn'tit? it's still 800Mhz or something iirc
2019-08-01T00:15:55 < salcedo> it has wifi and ethernet
2019-08-01T00:16:02 < salcedo> and a bunch of other crap
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2019-08-01T00:16:22 < salcedo> nothing great. 100mbit ethernet and 150mbit 802.11n
2019-08-01T00:16:42 < salcedo> which is perfect for my needs, since where i live the "LTE" is like 500kbit/sec
2019-08-01T00:16:43 < mawk> 800MHz sounds pretty fine for ms accuracy even without rt
2019-08-01T00:16:53 < mawk> just set to high priority process mode
2019-08-01T00:17:21 < mawk> what can hang the scheduler badly is disk sleep, but I assume you don't have hdd in your setup
2019-08-01T00:17:35 < salcedo> i'll have a sd card :)
2019-08-01T00:17:39 < mawk> and even then only the process that asked for the I/O will hang
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2019-08-01T00:17:58 < salcedo> it's not a problem if the sd card gets hung
2019-08-01T00:18:25 < salcedo> because the lora transmissions are just short burst... but if i'm using fhss, each short burst will have a bunch of interrupts occuring to trigger a frequency change
2019-08-01T00:19:47 < benishor> so .. there's this shitty problem I have. my stm32f7 little sdr frontend runs the audio processing on a thread with higher priority and draws the UI on another thread with lower priority. The problem is that I get tearing even though I use double buffering
2019-08-01T00:20:16 < benishor> if I move the waiting for vsync  and drawing in the audio thread, I get perfect video, except it kills my audio processing
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2019-08-01T00:20:41 < benishor> so what to do, what to do...
2019-08-01T00:21:07 < benishor> how do others handle this case? should I aim for triple buffering?
2019-08-01T00:21:21 < mawk> I was about to suggest triple buffering
2019-08-01T00:22:16 < benishor> so it would be a sane choice
2019-08-01T00:22:19 < benishor> thanks
2019-08-01T00:22:35 < benishor> I was really curious how others handle this
2019-08-01T00:26:23 < emeb> so your audio thread is stalling the UI updates?
2019-08-01T00:27:47 < benishor> not really. since it's higher prio it seems to mess with waiting for vsync which is in a different thread
2019-08-01T00:28:18 < benishor> thread1 = audio processing, thread2 = drawing and framebuffer switching
2019-08-01T00:28:53 < benishor> if I move the drawing and framebuffer switching code inside the audio processing loop, I don't get tearing, but it delays my audio processing too much
2019-08-01T00:29:19 < karlp> how are you "waiting" ?
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2019-08-01T00:29:40 < benishor> waiting for vsync you mean?
2019-08-01T00:29:44 < karlp> sounds like you don't actually want ui to be low priority, as it needs high responsitivity
2019-08-01T00:29:58 < karlp> you might want a high priorty to do the buffer flip aand alow priority to draw in the second buffer?
2019-08-01T00:29:59 < benishor> LTDC->SRCR = LTDC_SRCR_VBR;  + while (!(LTDC->CDSR & LTDC_CDSR_VSYNCS));
2019-08-01T00:30:17 < karlp> do you have to busy poll that?
2019-08-01T00:30:57 < benishor> I might miss it otherwise?
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2019-08-01T00:31:19 < karlp> there'ðs no interrupt for it?
2019-08-01T00:31:47 < karlp> how can you have a low priority task for something that you have to busy poll for? that sounds like you're going to fail a lot and get your tearing?
2019-08-01T00:32:16 < benishor> it's very possible my design is flawed
2019-08-01T00:32:33 < benishor> that's why I was asking how others deal with this kind of problem
2019-08-01T00:33:02 < benishor> I don't mind the ui drawing to be slower, I just want the tearing gone
2019-08-01T00:34:21 < karlp> not my field sorry, but I would have thought you'd have it drawing to the buffer, and just geting a notificaiton on the vsync and doig the flip at high priorty, not trying to busy poll it.
2019-08-01T00:34:31 < emeb> I like karlp's idea.
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2019-08-01T00:35:15 < benishor> sounds good but how to get a notification?
2019-08-01T00:35:20 < emeb> draw low priority after a buffer flip, but do the actual flip at high priority. It shouldn't take much time (just writing a bit in a register?).
2019-08-01T00:37:37 < benishor> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009XkZYASA3/stm32f756-ltdc-transfer-complete-interrupt-after-the-sdram-buffer-completely-read-in-one-frame
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2019-08-01T01:14:51 < jadew> do you guys know some shops with just a few products? I want to see how they're organizing their product pages
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2019-08-01T01:15:17 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjdRgBAY278
2019-08-01T01:17:51 < kakimir> LSI 9200 or 9205?
2019-08-01T01:22:59 < kakimir> thanks for the summer
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2019-08-01T01:23:11 < kakimir> stef
2019-08-01T01:23:16 < kakimir> it was a good day
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2019-08-01T01:45:21 < rajkosto> https://pastebin.com/128w6ju6 did i do it right
2019-08-01T01:45:40 < englishman> you used pastebin, so no
2019-08-01T01:45:52 < rajkosto> i actually see where i messed up
2019-08-01T01:48:06 < rajkosto> https://pastebin.com/4DPrxxy8 this should be better
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2019-08-01T02:11:37 < dongs> isnt CYCCNT only 24bit
2019-08-01T02:20:36 < salcedo> ok time to dive into the world of USB devices on stm32
2019-08-01T02:20:47 < salcedo> should i start with HAL or go with libopencm3 from the start?
2019-08-01T02:21:26 < dongs> start with laks
2019-08-01T02:21:29 < dongs> cuz it will work
2019-08-01T02:21:43 < salcedo> laks ?
2019-08-01T02:22:45 < dongs> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/
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2019-08-01T04:12:38 < Laurenceb> the demiurge!!
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2019-08-01T04:14:23 < Laurenceb> wow house of commons is epic cringe
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2019-08-01T10:10:18 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/hH8nkgJS
2019-08-01T10:10:35 < benishor> any idea on why am I not getting LTDC interrupts?
2019-08-01T10:10:38 < benishor> am I missing something?
2019-08-01T10:11:43 < dongs> yeah you're missing void inside ()'/s in EnableLCDIrq function
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2019-08-01T10:13:21 < benishor> oh come on
2019-08-01T10:13:51 < dongs> i fucking HATE shit disorganized code with bullshit style/indenttation
2019-08-01T10:14:44 < benishor> do expand
2019-08-01T10:15:17 < Thorn> benishor: you enabled the interrupt in NVIC but did you enable it in LTDC itself?
2019-08-01T10:16:33 < benishor> Thorn: not sure, what should I be looking for?
2019-08-01T10:17:12 < benishor> HAL_LTDC_ProgramLineEvent()?
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2019-08-01T10:19:55 < Thorn> no idea about HAL
2019-08-01T10:21:29 < Thorn> you should consult the reference manual
2019-08-01T10:22:02 < benishor> Thorn: thanks for the hint, I think this might be it
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2019-08-01T12:16:46 < dongs> way to go
2019-08-01T12:16:50 < dongs> parametric search on MPS site
2019-08-01T12:16:58 < dongs> sorts shit compltely randomly
2019-08-01T12:17:01 < dongs> if it has decimal point
2019-08-01T12:17:11 < dongs> im sortying by max current on converter
2019-08-01T12:17:31 < dongs> 6.5 5.5 3.6.... 25 25. 22. 22. 1.8..
2019-08-01T12:17:41 < dongs> i think it uses fucking string sort or someshit
2019-08-01T12:23:26 < Thorn> looks like reverse string sort
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2019-08-01T13:07:23 < benishor> anybody got a cure for "Error: selected processor does not support `vstmdbeq r0!,{s16-s31}' in Thumb mode" when compiling FreeRTOS' port.c?
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2019-08-01T13:18:14 < Thorn> you need to disable floating point support in freertos config
2019-08-01T13:21:30 < Thorn> or use a different port, not sure
2019-08-01T13:25:57 < benishor> solved it by enabling hardware fp support 
2019-08-01T13:26:10 < benishor> also had to add -specs=nosys.specs -specs=nano.specs in order to get rid of `Undefined reference to _sbrk`
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2019-08-01T14:00:51 < englishman> what's the standard footprint for those simple od voltage supervisors, sot-23-3 or sot-23-5
2019-08-01T14:01:07 < englishman> sot-23-5 has 2 pins NC kinda useless but way more in stock
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2019-08-01T14:45:31 < dongs> englishman: the 4 pin shits are SOT143 or someshit
2019-08-01T14:45:33 < dongs> like MAX811
2019-08-01T14:45:49 < dongs> i use apx811 china clones
2019-08-01T14:46:35 < dongs> er china clones are shit like SGM811 etc
2019-08-01T14:50:26 < englishman> whoa that's standard?
2019-08-01T14:50:29 < dongs> yeah
2019-08-01T14:50:33 < englishman> okey
2019-08-01T14:50:45 < dongs> thats the voltage supervisor + manual reset pin, there's tons of shit in that package
2019-08-01T14:50:46 < englishman> I didn't see the Rohm ones in that pkg
2019-08-01T14:51:18 < englishman> but il check later thx
2019-08-01T14:53:56 < dongs> sot 23-3 1.1k vs 400 for SOT143 so whatever, but 3 pin has no manual reset pin
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2019-08-01T15:47:51 < scrtsw> .join ##fpga
2019-08-01T15:48:01 < scrtsw> sorry, typo
2019-08-01T15:48:02 < scrtsw> :P
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2019-08-01T16:53:02 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/yJwt4zx
2019-08-01T17:01:30 < karlp> looks great now!
2019-08-01T17:02:03 < bitmask> I wonder if another layer of the two way mirror film on top will help hide the insides
2019-08-01T17:02:28 < bitmask> without ruining the effect
2019-08-01T17:08:19 < jpa-> paint them black?
2019-08-01T17:09:27 < bitmask> I can still see things that are black 
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2019-08-01T17:22:20 < salcedo> wow. that looks way cooler than i thought it would.
2019-08-01T17:22:49 < salcedo> had no idea you were doing a 3d effect. thought it was just one level of leds behind the mirror
2019-08-01T17:23:49 < jpa-> isn't that what it is, plus mirrors :)
2019-08-01T17:26:55 < englishman> dongs: don't need reset, it's a failsafe, hysteresis will be fine
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2019-08-01T17:32:15 < dongs> then yeah pick any of sot23-3 shits
2019-08-01T17:33:46 < mawk> you don't need - and decimal point since you're in fahrenheit bitmask ?
2019-08-01T17:33:55 < mawk> that would be the first advantage to use fahrenheit I hear
2019-08-01T17:35:05 < bitmask> salcedo thats what an infinity mirror is, mirror in the back, one way mirror on the front, one layer of leds inbetween and it reflects it multiple times
2019-08-01T17:35:43 < bitmask> yea fahrenheit ftw (at least for weather temperature)
2019-08-01T17:35:52 < salcedo> bitmask: o
2019-08-01T17:37:39 < salcedo> i'm in the vue.js rabbit hole
2019-08-01T17:37:44 < salcedo> for this reflow controller
2019-08-01T17:38:27 < salcedo> decided the final version of the controller is just gonna be a black box
2019-08-01T17:38:42 < salcedo> with emergency stop button only
2019-08-01T17:39:02 < salcedo> everything else is over super hipsterfied javascript bloatface
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2019-08-01T17:39:58 < dongs> fuck what
2019-08-01T17:40:15 < mawk> lol
2019-08-01T17:40:50 < salcedo> ... i gotta recoup my r&d costs somehow.
2019-08-01T17:41:00 < salcedo> add javascript to it increases the value by 1000
2019-08-01T17:41:19 < mawk> as long as it's easy to pair
2019-08-01T17:41:24 < mawk> should make it air tight
2019-08-01T17:41:38 < mawk> it will be usb n?
2019-08-01T17:41:43 < salcedo> usb n?
2019-08-01T17:42:02 < mawk> usb *
2019-08-01T17:42:03 < mawk> sorry
2019-08-01T17:42:13 < dongs> what niggertarded keyboard has * on the n key
2019-08-01T17:42:26 < mawk> it's rather * next to enter key
2019-08-01T17:42:33 < salcedo> wat
2019-08-01T17:42:35 < dongs> wuat
2019-08-01T17:42:42 < mawk> and n close to ?
2019-08-01T17:42:47 < salcedo> tf keyboard layout are you using?
2019-08-01T17:42:50 < mawk> azerty
2019-08-01T17:42:57 < salcedo> that's not hipster enough
2019-08-01T17:43:01 < mawk> lol
2019-08-01T17:43:01 < dongs> fuckin french turds
2019-08-01T17:43:03 < salcedo> you need to be on dvorak
2019-08-01T17:43:45 < mawk> we even have µ on the keyboard
2019-08-01T17:43:49 < mawk> it's not even in the french alphabet
2019-08-01T17:44:03 < mawk> and ù also, we have no word with ù
2019-08-01T17:44:08 < mawk> who designed that
2019-08-01T17:44:24 < dongs> dvorak? fuck off. pick super hipster shit like maltron or Colemak
2019-08-01T17:44:50 < dongs> actually colemak is not hipster enough its mostly qerty
2019-08-01T17:44:58 < dongs> with a couple shits changed around
2019-08-01T17:45:08 < dongs> maltron definitely takes the cake for weird shit
2019-08-01T17:46:07 < mawk> apparently nobody knows where azerty comes from, no wonder it's so badly adapted to french
2019-08-01T17:46:14 < mawk> at least qwerty is good for writing code
2019-08-01T17:46:52 < mawk> with azerty to do { it's alt-gr-4, } is alt-gr-+, etc
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2019-08-01T18:02:07 < PaulFertser> For a guy that doesn't give a damn about nonsense shit dongs knows surprisingly much about "alternative" keyboard layouts.
2019-08-01T18:03:17 < karlp> heh, I have them on alt-gr 7 and 0.
2019-08-01T18:03:21 < karlp> and [] are on alt-gr too.
2019-08-01T18:03:31 < karlp> icelandic is a horribly programming layout
2019-08-01T18:04:16 < karlp> PaulFertser: heh, I was thinkingh that too :)
2019-08-01T18:09:30 < PaulFertser> That said, with dvorak I can easily type with any keyboard, be it integrated in laptop, netbook or a full-sized PC one. And when I need to use someone else's computer I just type "setxkbmap -layout dvorak" and that's it.
2019-08-01T18:32:12 < rajkosto> what if it runs windows like most peoples computer
2019-08-01T18:33:43 < qyx> in that case I just silently move away saying I don't know much about computers and interwebnets
2019-08-01T18:41:26 < salcedo> yea i take the qyx approach
2019-08-01T18:41:37 < salcedo> never put yourself out there
2019-08-01T18:41:55 < salcedo> then you become "the computer guy" and they'll run you into the ground.
2019-08-01T18:42:55 < salcedo> not being able to type on qwerty after decade of dvorak is also nice
2019-08-01T18:43:12 < salcedo> it helps solidify the appearance that you really don't know computers
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2019-08-01T18:46:38 < zyp> heh
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2019-08-01T19:14:06 < englishman> salcedo is living the American dream. living out of a van writing jabbascrip for a reflow controller
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2019-08-01T19:18:44 < mawk> lol
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2019-08-01T19:33:17 < Steffanx> does he have a cat (or more) ?
2019-08-01T19:40:11 < PaulFertser> rajkosto: with windows switching to dvorak is simple too, several semi-obvious mouse clicks.
2019-08-01T19:42:27 < rajkosto> yes but then you ruined that person's computer when they come back to it
2019-08-01T19:42:33 < rajkosto> thats a faux-pas
2019-08-01T19:46:12 < Steffanx> just add an account.. problem solved.
2019-08-01T19:46:29 < Steffanx> stop thinking in problems :P
2019-08-01T19:57:16 < mawk> or no, better, leave it like this
2019-08-01T19:57:20 < mawk> he will pay you to fix it
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2019-08-01T19:58:10 < mawk> just quickly type cmr+r iexplore.exe "https://hackertyper.net/" enter and say his computer his hacked
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2019-08-01T20:58:32 < salcedo> englishman: that's not too far from the reality.
2019-08-01T20:58:57 < salcedo> i have to stay below $10k/year income and the van helps with that.
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2019-08-01T21:07:09 < PaulFertser> salcedo: where do commercial companies get information regarding criminal records from? Is it not private data?
2019-08-01T21:07:59 < jpa-> does anyone have an idea why lattice stock has been rising like crazy this year?
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2019-08-01T21:10:45 < salcedo> PaulFertser: i'm not sure i understand the question?
2019-08-01T21:11:07 < rajkosto> so why even on a pin that's open drain driven to gnd
2019-08-01T21:11:12 < rajkosto> if you dont have pullup resistor
2019-08-01T21:11:18 < rajkosto> you can see when its high and low its just noisy and only 0.3v
2019-08-01T21:12:00 < PaulFertser> salcedo: you say it's hard to find a job for an ex-convict. But how can they know who was ever convicted and who wasn't?
2019-08-01T21:12:17 < rajkosto> every job requires you to submit to them govt docs that you were never convicted
2019-08-01T21:12:20 < salcedo> PaulFertser: google.
2019-08-01T21:12:22 < rajkosto> in america they do that automatically
2019-08-01T21:12:27 < rajkosto> "background checks"
2019-08-01T21:12:51 < jpa-> seems like even finnish news publish the names of american convicts (and suspects, for that matter) quite often
2019-08-01T21:13:03 < salcedo> yep.
2019-08-01T21:13:27 < jpa-> but can't you just change name?
2019-08-01T21:13:27 < salcedo> punishment served, debt paid to society, over 15 years in the past, etc.
2019-08-01T21:13:30 < salcedo> none of this matters
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2019-08-01T21:13:49 < salcedo> they don't even have to run the background check
2019-08-01T21:14:08 < jpa-> around here background checks are only done if the job has special requirements like working with children or money
2019-08-01T21:14:16 < PaulFertser> That seems to be really unfair and violating the basic human rights. It's like privacy is not a word to them :(
2019-08-01T21:15:10 < salcedo> PaulFertser: that's the thing. suppose i were able to expunge my record (not possible for me). that means they cannot legally use the conviction against me or i can claim discrimination.
2019-08-01T21:15:13 < salcedo> however
2019-08-01T21:15:58 < salcedo> in reality, they google, they see the conviction and all the history, and it's "thanks so much for meeting with us. we decided to go with somebody else. good luck."
2019-08-01T21:16:31 < salcedo> there is never any "you're a fucking criminal, bro. stop wasting our time." because they have to cover their butts.
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2019-08-01T21:17:22 < salcedo> there's no such thing as reformed
2019-08-01T21:17:41 < salcedo> i'm also perm-banned from candada, new zeland, australia, and a few EU countries probably.
2019-08-01T21:18:14 < salcedo> i would never go to any southeast asian countries that have death penalty for non-violent offenses.
2019-08-01T21:19:00 < salcedo> because just by being there, there's a risk that they will be like "wtf why is this guy here." and pay me a visit. charge me with some random crime and put me in a cell awaiting execution.
2019-08-01T21:19:27 < salcedo> and i'd have zero defense against it. the US embassy would be like, "well you're already a felon. so you probably did whatever they said you did."
2019-08-01T21:20:02 < jpa-> that's pretty much how i feel about america, even though i have no criminal record :P
2019-08-01T21:20:57 < jpa-> too dangerous country to visit, too much risk of being victim of crime or of false lawsuits
2019-08-01T21:23:20 < salcedo> just come from a rich family.
2019-08-01T21:23:36 < salcedo> you'll be fine.
2019-08-01T21:24:27 < jpa-> the richest .fi families are probably poor in .us standards
2019-08-01T21:24:56 < salcedo> rofl i doubt that
2019-08-01T21:25:04 < salcedo> we're a 3rd world country pretending to be 1st world.
2019-08-01T21:48:47 < Rajko> Laurenceb__, "Just had a TV License Officer at my door nagging me to come in and make sure I haven't been watching TV without a license. "
2019-08-01T21:57:52 < salcedo> "Our records indicate that you have not received NPC firmware updates for several days. We suspect you are watching an unlicensed television. May we come in? If you don't let us in voluntarily, we will come back with a signed order."
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2019-08-01T22:48:32 < machinehum> I want to use a default argument for the ctor of a class. In my header I have class c { c(int i = 0)}; and in the cpp I have c::c(int i){ ... }. However when I try to create the object with no arguments I get an linker error...
2019-08-01T22:49:01 < machinehum> The internet says I should be okay... :/
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2019-08-01T22:56:54 < specing> machinehum: you should head over to some C++ channel I think
2019-08-01T22:57:06 < specing> this one has only C worshippers and Ada rebels
2019-08-01T22:57:37 < salcedo> and holy-C! RIP Terry. :(
2019-08-01T22:59:07 < specing> Terry?
2019-08-01T22:59:57 < salcedo> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_A._Davis
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2019-08-01T23:26:40 < Steffanx> Lies specing. C++ is used by quite a few here
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2019-08-01T23:30:47 < Steffanx> Sharing the error, next time, could be useful too mr machinehum 
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2019-08-01T23:43:43 < rajkosto> here's the PWM signals im trying to sample with input capture https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-01_22-43-16_3D7NRGTgR.png
2019-08-01T23:43:52 < rajkosto> so yes they do go full-on and full-off
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--- Day changed Fri Aug 02 2019
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2019-08-02T00:02:54 < catphish> hey kids, i have a question, is there a good way to keep a value in ram but have it reliably persisted to flash when power is lost?
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2019-08-02T00:03:28 < catphish> do i just need a capacitor backed power supply, a gpio connected to the main power supply? and save as soon as that line goes low?
2019-08-02T00:03:52 < specing> catphish: doesen't your chip have RTC nvram?
2019-08-02T00:04:08 < catphish> specing: would it help if it did?
2019-08-02T00:04:23 < specing> yes, because then all of this would be done for you
2019-08-02T00:12:32 < karlp> specing: what channel are you in?
2019-08-02T00:13:39 < specing> karlp: ?
2019-08-02T00:13:51 < karlp> what stm32s have rtc nvram?
2019-08-02T00:15:36 < specing> They don't, karlp?
2019-08-02T00:16:10 < Rajko> by nvram do you mean battery backed sram or actual eeprom
2019-08-02T00:16:14 < catphish> it appears that mine does not
2019-08-02T00:16:28 < specing> Rajko: battery backed registers
2019-08-02T00:16:32 < specing> stm32f072 has them
2019-08-02T00:16:39 < Rajko> all the ones that have RTC should have battery backed registers
2019-08-02T00:16:42 < specing> yes
2019-08-02T00:16:46 < Rajko> whatever is needed to keep time + at least 20 bytes extra
2019-08-02T00:17:21 < specing> 072rb has 20 bytes yep
2019-08-02T00:17:54 < catphish> so, is quickly dumping the ram into flash sensible enough?
2019-08-02T00:18:23 < catphish> or should i really consider a battery backed store?
2019-08-02T00:18:25 < specing> maybe
2019-08-02T00:18:33 < specing> depends on your application
2019-08-02T00:19:00 < catphish> i'm building a vehicle speedometer / odometer
2019-08-02T00:19:15 < catphish> i want to store a persistent distance counter
2019-08-02T00:19:45 < karlp> rtc nvram is pretty fucking different from "if you make sure there's a separate permanent power supply, this ram won't go away like the other ram"
2019-08-02T00:20:39 < specing> How is it different, karlp ?
2019-08-02T00:20:46 < karlp> catphish: by my maths, you can pretty easily have enough capacitance to last a flash write,
2019-08-02T00:21:10 < karlp> tradeoff is just how fast you want to run say the AWD for discovering you're out of power.
2019-08-02T00:21:25 < karlp> specing: you need a separte fucking supply?!
2019-08-02T00:21:30 < karlp> nvram is nvram,
2019-08-02T00:21:31 < catphish> some stm32 has battery backed ram right? but a capacitor backed flash write seemed simpler than needing a battery
2019-08-02T00:21:33 < karlp> not just ram with another supply
2019-08-02T00:22:16 < catphish> i figured i could interrupt on a falling gpio and write pretty fast
2019-08-02T00:22:35 < karlp> AWD is designed for it, but whatever detection method you like.
2019-08-02T00:22:46 < specing> karlp: nvram is battery backed
2019-08-02T00:22:46 < catphish> interestingly i've never used stm32 flash for anything other than program memory
2019-08-02T00:22:47 < karlp> most of the F series can actually write to flash faster than L series.
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2019-08-02T00:23:06 < karlp> (by like, order of magnitude even)
2019-08-02T00:23:37 < catphish> i'm going budget with this, probably f0
2019-08-02T00:23:41 < catphish> hom
2019-08-02T00:23:45 < catphish> hom
2019-08-02T00:23:48 < catphish> oops
2019-08-02T00:23:59 < karlp> datasheet has the flash write timings for your maths
2019-08-02T00:24:04 < catphish> cool
2019-08-02T00:24:11 < catphish> i'll have a look now
2019-08-02T00:24:20 < karlp> turn off everything except the flash when you detect, should be quite manageable
2019-08-02T00:28:29 < catphish> so i want the flash page erased and ready to write, then a write takes 53us per 16 bits
2019-08-02T00:28:55 < Rajko> well you need some sort of addressing/pointing layer
2019-08-02T00:29:04 < Rajko> so you know where the last value is
2019-08-02T00:29:37 < karlp> Rajko: or just yolo. read the page and erase it at boot.... save it on power fail...
2019-08-02T00:29:38 < Rajko> i guess you can just write a struct continuously one after another and then use the latest one with a valid magic/crc
2019-08-02T00:29:44 < Cracki> were you asked yet how frequently this value is updated? there's an appnote for "eeprom emulation" and I recently got some code from someone in here who did that himself
2019-08-02T00:29:46 < catphish> it seems to me i can erase a 1kB page, then at each power failure, write the next empty 16 bit block
2019-08-02T00:30:00 < Rajko> well you shouldnt erase more than necessary
2019-08-02T00:30:13 < catphish> Rajko: i was thining just write the next empty space
2019-08-02T00:30:16 < Rajko> if you only use 2 bytes out of a page thats some serious write amplification
2019-08-02T00:30:45 < Cracki> the "eeprom" scheme writes key+value in a kind of journal, until a flash page is full, then the most recent versions are kept and copied to a second page and the first is erased
2019-08-02T00:30:55 < catphish> ie at boot, read until you encounter 0x0000, the previos value is the one to use, and where 0x0000 was, you write next
2019-08-02T00:31:05 < Cracki> right
2019-08-02T00:31:11 < Rajko> flash pages are 0xFFFF after erased
2019-08-02T00:31:19 < catphish> that works :)
2019-08-02T00:31:58 < catphish> is a flash write just zeroing bits? ie can you write 0x00 over an already written byte?
2019-08-02T00:32:13 < Cracki> depends on flash type, but yes
2019-08-02T00:32:14 < catphish> not that i want to, just interested
2019-08-02T00:32:28 < Cracki> writing is writing zeroes, erasing is turning everything to 1
2019-08-02T00:32:34 < catphish> well that sounds ideal
2019-08-02T00:32:56 < catphish> i will engineer my data to never be all ones
2019-08-02T00:33:10 < Cracki> don't need to
2019-08-02T00:33:25 < Cracki> you can just waste a flag byte or something
2019-08-02T00:33:48 < catphish> well sure, but that would make the data "not all ones" :)
2019-08-02T00:33:52 < Cracki> the app note writes id+value, and ids are locations in a virtual "eeprom" space
2019-08-02T00:34:22 < catphish> alternatively, i could just use another sector as a bitmap
2019-08-02T00:34:27 < Cracki> or you can keep it "never be all ones", works to :P
2019-08-02T00:34:31 < catphish> and zero bits as they're used
2019-08-02T00:34:55 < catphish> but original idea seems simple and effective
2019-08-02T00:35:12 < Cracki> I think that would work too. overwriting the same 16 bits just turns ones into zeros
2019-08-02T00:35:25 < catphish> i just need to store a car mileage, i'll use a 32 bit int, no car will reach 4 billion miles
2019-08-02T00:35:28 < salcedo> https://postimg.cc/XGqf62q3
2019-08-02T00:35:33 < Rajko> catphish, you can do that on NOR flash
2019-08-02T00:35:46 < Cracki> you might wanna track distance in something more precise than miles
2019-08-02T00:35:54 < Cracki> feet or meters maybe
2019-08-02T00:35:56 < catphish> Cracki: you're right
2019-08-02T00:36:02 < Cracki> still, 32 bits is plenty
2019-08-02T00:36:02 < karlp> if you have a proper powerfail save method, you don't need to keep writing it anyway, can just use a single location....
2019-08-02T00:36:03 < Rajko> so do what i said
2019-08-02T00:36:10 < Rajko> struct with magic and crc and then your data
2019-08-02T00:36:18 < Rajko> use last one with valid magic and crc you find
2019-08-02T00:36:20 < catphish> most likely wheel revolutions, which are approx 1m
2019-08-02T00:37:08 < catphish> still allows for 2.6 million miles :)
2019-08-02T00:37:32 < Cracki> to the moon and back, a hundred times
2019-08-02T00:37:55 < catphish> thanks, i'll figure out a capacitor and hopefully it'll work
2019-08-02T00:38:21 < catphish> 10mA for 53us, plus whatever the chip normally consumes
2019-08-02T00:38:39 < Cracki> *11.2 times to the moon
2019-08-02T00:39:49 < Cracki> 1.75 microjoules, 160 nanofarads :P
2019-08-02T00:44:37 < catphish> including the usage of the cpu, and with some timing safety, i'll call it 50mA for 200us, this would need 10 uF
2019-08-02T00:45:05 < karlp> make sure to allow for delay in detection too, or figure out how you're doign that
2019-08-02T00:45:07 < catphish> which happens to be the capacitor i always put right after my 3v3 regulator
2019-08-02T00:45:15 < karlp> but yeah, I figured on 22uF for mine.
2019-08-02T00:45:45 < karlp> make sure your vreg isn't going to suck it all out of the capacitor backwards if it has lost it's supply
2019-08-02T00:45:45 < catphish> 22uF should work as long as the detection isn't too slow
2019-08-02T00:45:57 < catphish> yeah i wondered about that
2019-08-02T00:46:16 < catphish> i assumed (maybe wrongly) that it wouldn't because silicon
2019-08-02T00:46:26 < catphish> but that might be totally wrong
2019-08-02T00:46:36 < catphish> i can always use a higher vreg and a diode
2019-08-02T00:46:51 < karlp> it's sometimes listed in the features of the ldo, not all of them like it...
2019-08-02T00:47:08 < catphish> in fact my current design has a 5v vreg anyway, maybe i'll replace the 3v3 reg with a diode or two :)
2019-08-02T00:47:24 < karlp> some even have variants that will/will not suck down the supply in shutoff
2019-08-02T00:47:32 < karlp> sometimes it's considered a feature to "shut down"#
2019-08-02T00:47:43 < catphish> makes sense
2019-08-02T00:49:14 < catphish> i got my x27 stepper motors working really nicely in the end
2019-08-02T00:49:24 < catphish> so i have a nice smooth needle display
2019-08-02T00:49:58 < catphish> still gotta soft lcd display and input encoder, but this is quite fun
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2019-08-02T00:59:34 < englishman> PaulFertser: felons in USA have no rights. they can't even own guns, as explicitly states in their constitution
2019-08-02T01:02:35 < salcedo> non-felons have no rights either lol
2019-08-02T01:03:25 < Rajko> catphish, can confirm 2 beefy diodes works great for 5v -> 3.3v
2019-08-02T01:05:23 < catphish> thanks :)
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2019-08-02T01:05:35 < Rajko> well not 3.3v
2019-08-02T01:05:37 < Rajko> bit more
2019-08-02T01:05:38 < Rajko> depends on load
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2019-08-02T01:06:12 < catphish> doesn't need to be exact
2019-08-02T01:06:26 < Rajko> you need to get specific diodes that drop 0.7V tho
2019-08-02T01:06:33 < Rajko> most drop waaay less unless at 1A
2019-08-02T01:06:48 < catphish> depends on what voltage the other vreg is too, just realised i currently have 8v and 3v3 so that's not ideal
2019-08-02T01:06:48 < specing> you need them to drop 0.8
2019-08-02T01:06:54 < catphish> but i'll figire it out
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2019-08-02T01:07:02 < specing> actually more
2019-08-02T01:07:05 < specing> 0.85V drop
2019-08-02T01:07:11 < specing> because USB is 5.25V max
2019-08-02T01:07:11 < Rajko> i dunno what this LDO succ business is about tho
2019-08-02T01:07:20 < catphish> a 3v3 reg and a small low volage diode may be better
2019-08-02T01:07:37 < Rajko> specing, the 2 diodes i used were for usb
2019-08-02T01:07:57 < catphish> i got distracted trying to work out what on earth the interface to program this thing is https://www.midasdisplays.com/getattachment/7474e161-fd66-4ce3-a825-a7c4603f0fe9/specification
2019-08-02T01:08:23 < catphish> it says it's SPI, it doesn't look like SPI
2019-08-02T01:08:25 < Rajko> spi
2019-08-02T01:08:37 < Rajko> its SPI with additional wire if you use "4 wire SPI"
2019-08-02T01:08:55 < Rajko> if you want to use normal SPI only, then you have to do 9 bit transfers or something which isnt ideal
2019-08-02T01:09:12 < catphish> i'm used to SPI having MOSI AND MISO, and I2C having SDA and SCL
2019-08-02T01:09:13 < Rajko> the additional wire switches between Command and Data mode
2019-08-02T01:09:18 < Rajko> they label them that
2019-08-02T01:09:21 < Rajko> because its also I2C compatible
2019-08-02T01:09:24 < Rajko> SDA is MOSI
2019-08-02T01:09:24 < Cracki> their spi doesn't need miso?
2019-08-02T01:09:32 < Rajko> SCL is clock
2019-08-02T01:09:55 < catphish> that was what i assumed, but then i was unsure what SPI4W and RS were for
2019-08-02T01:10:00 < Rajko> ST7735 is a super common thing
2019-08-02T01:10:08 < Rajko> there's loads of aidsfruit/tarduino drivers for it
2019-08-02T01:10:33 < catphish> ooh, i didn't see they listed the driver IC
2019-08-02T01:10:42 < catphish> that makes it much easier to find info, thanks
2019-08-02T01:10:46 < Rajko> all the drivers use the additional RS pin
2019-08-02T01:11:16 < Rajko> also you need to issue a hardware reset if you hardwire CS to 0
2019-08-02T01:11:16 < Rajko> some modules are missing CS because of that and just hardwire to 0
2019-08-02T01:11:20 < Rajko> in that case you also need to use SPI mode 3
2019-08-02T01:12:06 < catphish> i wasnt sure what to do with CS really
2019-08-02T01:12:14 < catphish> i don't need to multiplex it
2019-08-02T01:12:16 < Rajko> its best to just have both CS and RES 
2019-08-02T01:12:20 < Rajko> just in case
2019-08-02T01:12:37 < Rajko> but you can soft reset if you have CS
2019-08-02T01:12:56 < Rajko> if you only have RES then you have to use weird spi mode 3 AND you cant do bidir transfers
2019-08-02T01:13:25 < catphish> that's fine, i have enough mcu pins
2019-08-02T01:13:39 < catphish> do i want RS? is it useful?
2019-08-02T01:13:43 < Rajko> yes
2019-08-02T01:13:46 < Rajko> all the drivers use it
2019-08-02T01:13:53 < Rajko> its way better than trying to do 9 bit transfers
2019-08-02T01:14:03 < Rajko> (the first bit indicates if its data or command in that case)
2019-08-02T01:14:18 < Rajko> so hardwire it for 4-wire spi mode and use RS
2019-08-02T01:14:18 < catphish> 9 bit transfers don't sound hard
2019-08-02T01:14:25 < Rajko> well 
2019-08-02T01:14:28 < Rajko> what stm32 supports that ?
2019-08-02T01:14:31 < Rajko> its either 8 or 16 bit
2019-08-02T01:14:46 < catphish> ah, didn't know that
2019-08-02T01:15:08 < zyp> what are we talking about? SPI?
2019-08-02T01:15:09 < catphish> in that case yeah, i'll hook up all the lines and tie SPI4W high
2019-08-02T01:15:18 < catphish> zyp: yes
2019-08-02T01:15:25 < Rajko> zyp, the same LCD module shit i was confused about
2019-08-02T01:15:28 < zyp> SPIv2 can do arbitrary sizes
2019-08-02T01:15:32 < zyp> 9-bit, etc
2019-08-02T01:15:38 < Rajko> if it was I2C or SPI cuz they labeled the SPI pins as I2C
2019-08-02T01:16:12 < zyp> SPIv2 as in the second version of the SPI peripheral, same one that introduced the FIFO
2019-08-02T01:16:19 < catphish> i'm glad im not the only person who thought that was weird
2019-08-02T01:16:37 < zyp> available on F3 and newer IIRC
2019-08-02T01:16:56 < zyp> F1, F2 and F4 can probably only do 8/16-bit transfers
2019-08-02T01:17:04 < Rajko> yes
2019-08-02T01:17:44 < catphish> i'll keep it simple and use 8 bit trnsfers with the 4 wire interface
2019-08-02T01:17:56 < catphish> and hook up both reset and cs :)
2019-08-02T01:18:03 < Rajko> if you use CS
2019-08-02T01:18:05 < zyp> looking at F3 RM now, SPI_CR2.DS can be set to select any size from 4-16 bit transfers
2019-08-02T01:18:10 < Rajko> you can hook up RES to the same RES you use for the CPU
2019-08-02T01:18:31 < zyp> uh, that sounds like a bad idea
2019-08-02T01:18:46 < Rajko> porque
2019-08-02T01:18:58 < catphish> pork
2019-08-02T01:18:59 < zyp> it's generally nice to be able to reset other devices through a gpio
2019-08-02T01:19:05 < Rajko> it has a soft reset command
2019-08-02T01:19:13 < catphish> hard is better i guess
2019-08-02T01:19:15 < Rajko> as long as the SPI state machine isnt unknown
2019-08-02T01:19:19 < Rajko> you can issue it
2019-08-02T01:19:40 < Rajko> the aidsfruit libraries support soft or hard reset
2019-08-02T01:21:37 < Rajko> i can send you my seuss for ST7735 if you want
2019-08-02T01:21:45 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
2019-08-02T01:21:48 < Rajko> using same 160x80 display
2019-08-02T01:22:48 < Rajko> what chip
2019-08-02T01:23:16 < catphish> simples https://i.imgur.com/shSgrP3.png
2019-08-02T01:23:17 < Rajko> the max spi freq for ST7735 is like 48MHz, for ST7739 its 64
2019-08-02T01:23:39 < Rajko> you better have a mosfet for that cathode
2019-08-02T01:23:49 < Rajko> also its useful to put it on a timer channel
2019-08-02T01:23:51 < catphish> Rajko: nah, 15mA
2019-08-02T01:24:03 < Rajko> that way you can set the brightness via pwm
2019-08-02T01:24:21 < catphish> that might be useful if i have any spare pwm channels
2019-08-02T01:24:22 < Rajko> why no mosfet ? you shouldnt drain more than 4mA per pin
2019-08-02T01:24:29 < catphish> why not?
2019-08-02T01:24:36 < Rajko> datasheet usually says that
2019-08-02T01:24:57 < Rajko> theres a global limit and a per pin limit
2019-08-02T01:25:36 < catphish> "Output current sunk by any I/O and control pin" 25mA
2019-08-02T01:25:46 < Rajko> absolute maximum ?
2019-08-02T01:26:04 < catphish> yes
2019-08-02T01:26:08 < Rajko> so not working
2019-08-02T01:26:23 < catphish> ah
2019-08-02T01:26:36 < catphish> The GPIOs (general purpose input/outputs) can sink or source up to +/-8 mA, and sink or source up to +/- 20 mA (with a relaxed V OL /V OH ).
2019-08-02T01:26:59 < Rajko> how do you use the relaxed thing
2019-08-02T01:27:08 < catphish> no idea looking now
2019-08-02T01:27:13 < Rajko> also, the current depends on what resistor you place in series, no ?
2019-08-02T01:27:27 < Rajko> all the modules that incorporate LCDs ive seen have a mosfet for the backlight control
2019-08-02T01:27:41 < Rajko> base to GPIO, source to GND, drain to LED_K
2019-08-02T01:27:41 < Rajko> ez
2019-08-02T01:27:59 < catphish> it means the voltage will rise above 0.4v
2019-08-02T01:28:16 < Rajko> so your backlight wont be truly off
2019-08-02T01:28:39 < catphish> i was going to use it as a sink
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2019-08-02T01:29:36 < Rajko> i just use whatever sot23-3 n-mos i have at hand
2019-08-02T01:29:37 < catphish> it just means at 20mA they can't guarentee the voltage level
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2019-08-02T01:30:08 < catphish> well, if driving a 15mA LED from GPIO is in-spec i see no reason not to do it
2019-08-02T01:31:12 < catphish> if it wasn't in spec, i wouldn't :)
2019-08-02T01:31:54 < catphish> so, sinking 20mA voltage can rise to 1.3v
2019-08-02T01:32:32 < catphish> which does make it start to seem like a small mosfet is a good idea
2019-08-02T01:32:48 < catphish> though not strictly necessary
2019-08-02T01:33:09 < catphish> i like the idea of setting the brightness though, will hook it to a spare pwm line
2019-08-02T01:33:23 < Rajko> i found that essential
2019-08-02T01:36:37 < Rajko> you can use any timer that has a spare channel as long as its autoreloading at > 60hz
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2019-08-02T01:39:22 < catphish> i already have 60kHz pwm timer already that has a spare output :)
2019-08-02T01:39:28 < catphish> that'll be ideal
2019-08-02T01:40:11 < catphish> CH1 CH1N CH2 CH2N are driving my stepper motor
2019-08-02T01:40:26 < catphish> CH3 will drive the LED nicely
2019-08-02T01:48:24 < Rajko> are you sure you can use more than 4 like that ?
2019-08-02T01:54:12 < catphish> they're in pairs
2019-08-02T01:54:36 < catphish> you can definitely use 6 in 3 pairs
2019-08-02T01:55:38 < catphish> 3 times outputs, then the same 3 again, inverted with optional dead time
2019-08-02T01:55:48 < catphish> *timer outputs
2019-08-02T01:57:09 < catphish> it's not at all clear to me whether the l78l leaks current in reverse
2019-08-02T01:59:23 < catphish> diode will fix it if it does :)
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2019-08-02T02:10:35 < kakimir> hello night
2019-08-02T02:12:18 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXx5Qk1iP1M encore
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2019-08-02T04:11:23 < rajkosto> if im trying to input capture pwm signals that arent in-phase, i have to use 3 different timers, right
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2019-08-02T04:22:54 < rajkosto> seems like it, since the usual setup is to reset the timer on one of the edges
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2019-08-02T05:07:40 < englishman> whats the hotkey to synchronize sheet symbols and ports
2019-08-02T05:09:45 < englishman> i guess rightclick->sp is the only way
2019-08-02T05:14:13 < Cracki> rajkosto, uh not necessarily. do they all have the same frequency at least? if so, one timer *might* be enough
2019-08-02T05:14:34 < dongs> englishman: yeah, no way otherwise
2019-08-02T05:14:59 < englishman> a little gay but understandable
2019-08-02T05:15:26 < dongs> oh
2019-08-02T05:15:28 < dongs> clicking on it
2019-08-02T05:15:29 < dongs> and dp
2019-08-02T05:15:30 < dongs> works too
2019-08-02T05:15:31 < dongs> glishman> whats the hotkey to synchronize sheet symbols and ports
2019-08-02T05:15:33 < dongs> 02:09 < englishman> i guess rightclick->sp is the only way
2019-08-02T05:15:50 < dongs> it gets added to bottom of Design menu
2019-08-02T05:15:56 < englishman> oh nice
2019-08-02T05:15:59 < englishman> didnt see that before
2019-08-02T05:16:25 < dongs> that 10mil schematic was prolly result of some disgusting import from orcad or someothershit
2019-08-02T05:16:41 < englishman> no it's in the company sch template
2019-08-02T05:16:46 < dongs> ncie
2019-08-02T05:17:08 < englishman> like tesla is the best electric car by default. im rising to the top of this company by default
2019-08-02T05:20:05 < salcedo> people still do that?
2019-08-02T05:20:25 < salcedo> different worlds
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2019-08-02T05:44:57 < englishman> zyp's new house insider pic https://i.imgur.com/1Fh11Y8.jpg
2019-08-02T05:49:33 < salcedo> why is there 54.6VAC between the fridge and the stove?
2019-08-02T05:50:17 < rajkosto> ground offset is a helluva thing
2019-08-02T05:54:10 < salcedo> probably running extension cord out the window to power the fridge
2019-08-02T05:56:22 < rajkosto> nah i have like 30 VAC in this room
2019-08-02T05:56:26 < rajkosto> no idea why
2019-08-02T05:59:13 < salcedo> i repasted imgur link in another channel
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2019-08-02T05:59:36 < salcedo> someone suggested you should check the 3phase room for Mujibar's body.
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2019-08-02T06:27:21 < dongs> what was that thing about TPS63001 startup drawing current
2019-08-02T06:27:37 < dongs> https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/cky9p9/the_kindestgreatest_japanese_person_you_have_ever/evrqids/ ah this
2019-08-02T06:27:41 < dongs> err
2019-08-02T06:27:44 < dongs> https://e2e.ti.com/support/power-management/f/196/t/700287?TPS63001-Drawing-a-lot-of-Current
2019-08-02T06:27:47 < dongs> that
2019-08-02T06:28:07 < dongs> yeah needs more caps ok
2019-08-02T06:29:39 < dongs> and slower startup
2019-08-02T06:29:40 < dongs> hmm
2019-08-02T06:31:05 < whydb> ay is this stuff confirmed to work for every stm32 chip out there?
2019-08-02T06:31:09 < whydb> https://www.aisec.fraunhofer.de/en/FirmwareProtection.html
2019-08-02T06:31:17 < dongs> no
2019-08-02T06:31:30 < dongs> thjats just retarded german hax0rs pretending to be l33t
2019-08-02T06:31:48 < whydb> whelp fuck i guess the bar's just set too high for me on this one
2019-08-02T06:32:25 < dongs> RDP level 2 (all debug disabled, BL disabled etc) i can't see any reasonable way they can get to your firmware unless your own bootloader has bugs they can somehow exploit.
2019-08-02T06:32:40 < dongs> even ST refuses to diagnose RDP2 parts as they have no way of unbricking them
2019-08-02T06:32:52 < dongs> so why would i trust some retarded german hackers
2019-08-02T06:33:42 < whydb> idk that laser and UV attack sounded pretty convincing
2019-08-02T06:34:05 < whydb> lasers are convincing
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2019-08-02T07:21:29 < mawk> yes I saw that paper long time ago whydb 
2019-08-02T07:21:44 < mawk> it will work with stm32 that have the memory protection scheme they describe
2019-08-02T07:22:05 < mawk> eg that key in the option byte you just have to flip a bit to downgrade from RDP 2
2019-08-02T07:22:15 < mawk> if ST fixes this the attack isn't possible anymore
2019-08-02T07:22:19 < mawk> just skim through reference manuals
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2019-08-02T11:41:27 < Steffanx> Welcome mr jly 
2019-08-02T11:42:35 < jly> ohiyo!
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2019-08-02T12:51:25 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21b2Hc_NIis
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2019-08-02T13:48:15 < whydb> mawk: i was wondering more about the other attacks because i'm pretty sure the one i wanna look at isn't gonna have RDP 2 enabled.  was just wondering if anything has changed since then because they all look like they'd require redesigns
2019-08-02T13:48:52 < whydb> the coldboot stepping and the debugger interface race condition
2019-08-02T13:53:58 < zyp> whydb, what's your goal?
2019-08-02T13:54:08 < whydb> dumo the flash
2019-08-02T13:54:19 < zyp> what device?
2019-08-02T13:54:25 < whydb> looking it up now
2019-08-02T13:54:32 < whydb> i don't have physical access, i have picture
2019-08-02T13:54:42 < whydb> it's on a zk102 board, not sure which exact chips it's using
2019-08-02T13:55:12 < zyp> zk102?
2019-08-02T13:56:25 < whydb> https://opendevelopment.verizonwireless.com/device-showcase/device/8009
2019-08-02T14:00:07 < zyp> got a picture showing it's got a stm32?
2019-08-02T14:00:21 < whydb> i've been told the chip is for sure an stm32
2019-08-02T14:01:37 < zyp> what's your goal? stealing scooters?
2019-08-02T14:01:55 < whydb> writing an article for my linkedin cause i need a job
2019-08-02T14:02:12 < whydb> and i need to impress these dumbass recruiters somehow
2019-08-02T14:42:47 < salcedo> i think you're overthinking that.
2019-08-02T15:02:42 < salcedo> go to kohls and buy a nice shirt & tie. clean yourself up and take a really good mugshot. smile. maybe spend a few dollars to have the pictures taken by a studio. then just shower them with buzzwords.
2019-08-02T15:05:30 < salcedo> my cellmate for 5 years was locked up for selling meth out of the back of a pickup truck in virginia. he didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground but he self-tought himself how to code without a computer only reading applied cryptography by bruce schneier.
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2019-08-02T15:06:14 < salcedo> got out of prison and made himself look like a pro on linkedin. got hired by cisco as an internal systems developer through recruiters in less than 3 months.
2019-08-02T15:07:20 < dongs> pros: out of jail
2019-08-02T15:07:24 < dongs> cons: working for cisco
2019-08-02T15:07:51 < dongs> (and literally cons)
2019-08-02T15:08:35 < salcedo> yea it didn't last long. but it wasn't because he didn't know his stuff. he kept selling meth too. rofl
2019-08-02T15:09:44 < salcedo> tl;dr - linkedin and recruiters are easy as fuck. just spam a bunch of buzzwords and put up a facade. make yourself look like you're already super-pro.
2019-08-02T15:09:51 < salcedo> it's the instagram of the business world
2019-08-02T15:10:45 < whydb> can you give me a list of buzzwords you thnik they're looking for
2019-08-02T15:11:06 < whydb> like what do you really thinks stirs their blood
2019-08-02T15:11:27 < salcedo> what stirs their blood are people they can sell to employers.
2019-08-02T15:11:48 < salcedo> they dgaf about some l33t stm32 hax. most of them don't even know what it is.
2019-08-02T15:13:03 < salcedo> zk102 meltdown spectre heartbleed shellshock subversive human transportation attack methodology through the use of advanced blockchain discovery debugging apparatus
2019-08-02T15:13:23 < salcedo> ^ my buzzwords here are intentionally outdated. i don't want to just GIVE you the answer.
2019-08-02T15:13:32 < whydb> lol
2019-08-02T15:13:33 < salcedo> you're going to need to look at other profiles and steal their buzzwords.
2019-08-02T15:14:11 < whydb> selling meth sounds so much easier, how'd your old cellmate get caught
2019-08-02T15:14:33 < salcedo> you can be smart in technology but still a dumbass in life.
2019-08-02T15:16:57 < salcedo> btw i'm just as unemployed as you. i staged my own death on linkedin a few years ago as an experiment to see if any of my linked people would notice.
2019-08-02T15:16:59 < salcedo> they didn't.
2019-08-02T15:21:57 < whydb> lol
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2019-08-02T15:37:53 < jadew> these past few weeks I've been measuring cables, cable assemblies, connectors, etc, and I realized something very interesting
2019-08-02T15:38:59 < jadew> I'm not sure if it only applies to these combination of connectors that I'm using, but it seems that high quality SMA connectors have higher chances of performing worse if not tighten correctly, than cheaper ones
2019-08-02T15:39:08 < jadew> but they're much better once tightened properly
2019-08-02T15:39:13 < jadew> (with a torque wrench)
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2019-08-02T15:40:10 < jadew> also (and this could be related), cheap connectors are often out of spec (longer center contact than it should be), which might explain why they have a correct response even when tightened by hand
2019-08-02T15:40:47 < jadew> of course, if you use a torque wrench on the cheap ones, you're going to damage them
2019-08-02T15:42:55 < jadew> Now you know™
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2019-08-02T15:46:57 < scrtsw> We've seen a lot worse performance of gold plated connectors if they're not cleaned before making a connection
2019-08-02T15:47:03 < scrtsw> cheap gold covers with dark shit
2019-08-02T15:47:13 < scrtsw> failed so many EMC tests because of this...
2019-08-02T15:47:42 < jadew> yeah, the cheap chinese connectors are losing their chinesium coating and it ends up on the PTFE (if that's what it is)
2019-08-02T15:47:57 < zyp> you're not mixing SMA and the 3.5mm lab connectors?
2019-08-02T15:48:03 < zyp> IIRC they are intermatable
2019-08-02T15:48:28 < jadew> zyp, they are intermatable, but only if the SMA connectors are in tollerance
2019-08-02T15:48:53 < jadew> I'm not mixing them tho, I'm using SMA cables, but it still hurts a little when I connect them to cheap connectors
2019-08-02T15:49:15 < jadew> the cheap connectors are still useful tho
2019-08-02T15:49:27 < jadew> if you only need to mate them a couple of times, they're fine
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2019-08-02T15:49:58 < sync> that is why you always have a sacrificial connector on your stuff
2019-08-02T15:50:15 < jadew> sync, I have, but the sacrificial connector is also expensive lol
2019-08-02T15:50:40 < jadew> but yeah, it's still better than ruining the cables
2019-08-02T15:50:49 < jadew> (the test cables)
2019-08-02T15:51:21 < sync> cheap enough
2019-08-02T15:51:29 < jadew> yeah
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2019-08-02T20:44:22 < machinehum> If I work for company A, and get a job offer from company B in another country. But I only want to live in the other country for a while, is it reasoanble to tell company A that's I
2019-08-02T20:45:25 < Cracki> that's I?
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2019-08-02T20:57:50 < PaulFertser> machinehum: your message was truncated after "that's I"
2019-08-02T21:00:57 < PaulFertser> boddax: nice law, is that in IT?
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2019-08-02T21:50:06 < rajkosto> do ws2812b take in sRGB or linear values
2019-08-02T21:51:43 < Cracki> I'm betting linear.
2019-08-02T21:52:01 < Cracki> care to measure one?
2019-08-02T21:52:05 < rajkosto> seems like it but then at 8bit per channel the darks would be super bandy
2019-08-02T21:52:18 < Cracki> watch power draw, or put a photodiode up to one and look at its duty cycle
2019-08-02T21:52:42 < machinehum> Shit sorry lol
2019-08-02T21:53:07 < machinehum> That I tell company A that I'll be coming back in a year and there's space for me I would love to work there again
2019-08-02T21:53:33 < Cracki> are you irreplaceable?
2019-08-02T21:53:40 < machinehum> uhh
2019-08-02T21:53:42 < machinehum> no
2019-08-02T21:54:06 < Cracki> then it'll be like applying to a new job, except they know what you can do
2019-08-02T21:54:14 < machinehum> Yeah that's what I figure
2019-08-02T21:54:30 < Cracki> they'll fill your position quickly, but they might rehire you if they have the means and the intention. they know you already.
2019-08-02T21:55:56 < salcedo> yea just be polite and say you got another offer in a country that doesn't suck
2019-08-02T21:56:06 < salcedo> but you'll be back when that other country starts to suck more
2019-08-02T21:56:34 < Cracki> tell them to take over the government and fix all the problems if they ever want to see you again
2019-08-02T21:56:42 < salcedo> ^
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2019-08-02T21:58:46 < Cracki> "we'd like you to write golang code for us" *applicant leaves without a word*
2019-08-02T22:01:40 < salcedo> "the starting pay is $88k/year. the CEO works 100 hours a week and we expect you to as well. benefits start after 2 years. raise after 6 months with perfect performance reviews. we offer on site catered vegan meal options and free kale shakes (limit 1 per day) from our IoT vending machine. foozball table is on the right. safe space over there. stuffed animals room lights must remain off because some employees
2019-08-02T22:01:43 < salcedo> use it as the crying room. when can you start?"
2019-08-02T22:05:44 < Cracki> vegan is where I draw the line
2019-08-02T22:06:01 < Cracki> give me pork or the cow orker longpigs get the spear
2019-08-02T22:06:24 < specing> salcedo: lol
2019-08-02T22:07:48 < salcedo> specing: "oooooooo... I'm sorry. "lol" is not an appropriate response. We also consider it a microaggression. I'm afraid the offer is no longer on the table. Best of luck with your job search!"
2019-08-02T22:08:53 < specing> a microaggression?!
2019-08-02T22:08:59 < salcedo> SECURITY!
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2019-08-02T22:10:57 < salcedo> got some more hardware for the reflow oven :)
2019-08-02T22:11:25 < salcedo> hoping i have enough random nuts&bolts lying around to mount all the things
2019-08-02T22:11:51 < salcedo> it's on the home stretch now. need to mount the SSRs and wire everything up.
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2019-08-02T23:22:05 < machinehum> lol
2019-08-02T23:22:14 < machinehum> Hey so when we building the new internet
2019-08-02T23:25:35 < rajkosto> based on LORA ?
2019-08-02T23:25:41 < rajkosto> mesh network
2019-08-02T23:29:37 < rajkosto> should i even bother setting up PWM input capture to work "in inverse" when i can just subtract the values when getting them
2019-08-02T23:29:53 < rajkosto> my 0 value is "active"
2019-08-02T23:34:11 < machinehum> rajkosto: Yeah kinda
2019-08-02T23:50:28 < jadew> machinehum, just tell them that it won't be permanent, that you enjoyed working there and that you'd like to work again for their company once you're back
2019-08-02T23:50:44 < jadew> because working there was great for you
2019-08-02T23:51:47 < jadew> I have a sort of related question, in that it involves companies
2019-08-02T23:52:59 < englishman> machinehum: change sex and take maternity leave. then they have to hire you back and you get paid
2019-08-02T23:53:00 < jadew> I figured today how to make 300k to 800k euro/year for a company
2019-08-02T23:53:05 < jadew> how do I approach them?
2019-08-02T23:53:16 < jadew> (I actually did the math)
2019-08-02T23:54:17 < jadew> this is peanuts for them btw, but it's not nothing
2019-08-02T23:54:40 < jadew> do I contact the CEO over linked in?
2019-08-02T23:54:49 < jadew> "hey boss, want to make some money?"
2019-08-02T23:55:39 < jadew> or do I go through HR "Hey, you're not the people I want to talk to. Can you put me in contact with someone who matters?"
2019-08-02T23:57:10 < jadew> also, not sure how to make such a proposition without running the risk of them taking the idea and doing it without me
2019-08-02T23:59:02 < jadew> there's got to be a book on this
2019-08-02T23:59:49 < jadew> *there has
--- Day changed Sat Aug 03 2019
2019-08-03T00:03:26 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip68-2-121-171.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-03T00:08:37 -!- kakimir [b237921e@178-55-146-30.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-03T00:13:21 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlEYDB5Z59w
2019-08-03T00:13:25 < kakimir> musics ofc
2019-08-03T00:14:06 < emeb_mac> wubwub
2019-08-03T00:17:42 < englishman> hmm
2019-08-03T00:17:46 < Cracki>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJPe336uxa8
2019-08-03T00:18:00 < englishman> is the stm32f302 ADC noisy or is it clock noise
2019-08-03T00:18:12 < englishman> why the shit is avcc right next to th xtal
2019-08-03T00:21:23 < qyx> any recommended 24V->5V sync buck?
2019-08-03T00:21:26 < qyx> where are zypsnips
2019-08-03T00:22:28 < englishman> just put a bunch of diodes
2019-08-03T00:22:40 < englishman> ##stm32 approved
2019-08-03T00:23:39 < englishman> hmm looks like impedance mismatch
2019-08-03T00:25:06 < mawk> in the topic qyx 
2019-08-03T00:25:17 < qyx> I used to use A5973D
2019-08-03T00:25:40 < qyx> but somehow I feel the need to inovate something and use a sync buck
2019-08-03T00:27:14 < mawk> that depends on your running specs
2019-08-03T00:27:31 < mawk> for 24V -> 5V yes innovate
2019-08-03T00:32:26 < qyx> AP63205, much simple, very sync, cheap, quite wow
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2019-08-03T00:34:58 < bitmask> grr why does this laser cutter place have a $15 job setup cost
2019-08-03T00:35:05 < Cracki> lol
2019-08-03T00:35:08 < bitmask> thats half the cost
2019-08-03T00:35:20 < Cracki> because they clean the lenses and mirrors every day?
2019-08-03T00:35:40 < Cracki> look for a local fablab
2019-08-03T00:36:02 < jadew> because it takes a couple of minutes to prepare for the job
2019-08-03T00:36:09 < zyp> bitmask, presumably because setup takes time, not their fault your job volume is so low
2019-08-03T00:36:10 < Cracki> at my local fablab, i can cut shit for free... once a week, for the allotted time, unless the thing's safety locks are loose and switch off the laser without stopping it
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2019-08-03T00:38:35 < bitmask> haha the closest place on this fablabs.io site is called fair use building and research labs, FUBAR Labs
2019-08-03T00:38:39 < Cracki> the 3d printing often uses support material, so you get to wait for your shit to sit in lye or something for the night
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2019-08-03T00:38:50 < Cracki> sounds usable
2019-08-03T00:39:38 < bitmask> looks like they have cnc and laser
2019-08-03T00:39:40 < bitmask> interesting
2019-08-03T00:39:43 < catphish> morning
2019-08-03T00:39:52 < bitmask> I should check this place out
2019-08-03T00:40:00 < bitmask> its about 45 min away
2019-08-03T00:40:44 < rajkosto> whats fastest way to integer divide i forgot
2019-08-03T00:40:44 < bitmask> then again im spending like the $15 in gas instead of the other place to press a few buttons and ship it to me :P
2019-08-03T00:41:07 < Cracki> mail them your job?
2019-08-03T00:41:20 < Cracki> and some buttcoin too
2019-08-03T00:42:32 < bitmask> http://fubarlabs.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Shop_Area.jpg
2019-08-03T00:45:21 < bitmask> $78 a month? fuck that
2019-08-03T00:45:35 < Cracki> xylophone? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGPA30LYTro
2019-08-03T00:45:50 < bitmask> oh maybe you dont need to be a member to use it?
2019-08-03T00:47:43 < kakimir> Cracki: video looks like 2007
2019-08-03T00:47:51 < Cracki> potato is potato
2019-08-03T00:48:09 < kakimir> but nice
2019-08-03T00:48:57 < bitmask> anyone hear anything about ponoko?
2019-08-03T00:49:01 < bitmask> thats who has the $15 job fee
2019-08-03T00:49:33 < Cracki> moar dutchies doing good stuff https://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/7257261/f5006a7d/happy_hardcore_op_xylofoon.html
2019-08-03T00:52:46 -!- Drzacek [~Drzacek@2001:16b8:1ce8:9f00:2090:69fb:edb:e5a2] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-08-03T00:52:51 < kakimir> Dune - Hardcore Vibes
2019-08-03T00:53:10 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd1wCX92WMY&list=RDiDxqadCAyRk&index=4
2019-08-03T00:53:49 < kakimir> shiieet piano plays itself it's amazing!
2019-08-03T01:02:14 < kakimir> magic
2019-08-03T01:02:22 < kakimir> https://imgur.com/gallery/AuZZHhI
2019-08-03T01:02:53 < kakimir> propper cat
2019-08-03T01:03:32 < Cracki> much cat much love
2019-08-03T01:11:17 < rajkosto> you know what
2019-08-03T01:11:20 < rajkosto> its much easier to use ADC for this
2019-08-03T01:11:24 < rajkosto> than pwm input
2019-08-03T01:12:27 < rajkosto> but then i'd have to condition the signal
2019-08-03T01:12:51 < Cracki> just sample and lowpass in software
2019-08-03T01:13:16 < Cracki> you can prolly get away with undersampling
2019-08-03T01:13:32 < Cracki> if the lights aren't blinken too fast
2019-08-03T01:13:50 < rajkosto> they are blinken at 62.25KHz
2019-08-03T01:14:10 < Cracki> that's the pwm freq (modulation), but I'm talking about actual signal content
2019-08-03T01:14:31 < rajkosto> they are actual blinken at that freq
2019-08-03T01:14:39 < rajkosto> the output timer freq is likely 16MHz
2019-08-03T01:14:57 < Cracki> ...
2019-08-03T01:15:16 < Cracki> I'm saying stochastic sampling
2019-08-03T01:15:35 < Cracki> just make sure you are sampling at a coprime frequency, or random phase
2019-08-03T01:18:39 < Cracki> also it's prolly 62.50 khz, because 16e6/256
2019-08-03T01:19:42 < rajkosto> yes but if i convert to analog signal i dont have to worry about anything like the timer interrupts firing too fast, etc
2019-08-03T01:19:56 < rajkosto> what to do when the signal is flat
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2019-08-03T01:20:11 < rajkosto> and i can do it with just some n-mos
2019-08-03T01:20:42 < rajkosto> or a 4 channel NOT gate
2019-08-03T01:25:11 < PaulFertser> "All SMD components can be bent uniformly and consistently. Bender would be proud!" https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:373680
2019-08-03T01:26:03 < rajkosto> what is there to bend for the leadless ones
2019-08-03T01:28:34 < zyp> I think the guy doesn't know the meaning of the word bend
2019-08-03T01:28:48 < rajkosto> unless his smd components arrive prebent somehow ?
2019-08-03T01:28:53 < rajkosto> and he wants to straighten them out
2019-08-03T01:29:17 < PaulFertser> It looks like it's some kind of a Laurenceb__-style joke.
2019-08-03T01:29:56 < PaulFertser> In the comments section he is not really answering what part of a component is getting bent, just bla-bla.
2019-08-03T01:31:02 < zyp> «Cold-bending of a straight SMDs is impossible without this tool. By the
2019-08-03T01:31:03 < zyp> way, I plan to add an auto-bending option and bend-to-fit for PCBs with
2019-08-03T01:31:03 < zyp> the wrong size solder pads.»
2019-08-03T01:31:10 < zyp> yeah, maybe it's a troll :p
2019-08-03T01:31:59 < Cracki> looks like a birdfeed sieve
2019-08-03T01:32:14 < Cracki> gauge to estimate size of random grain
2019-08-03T01:32:36 < Cracki> also looks like those through hole resistor bending things
2019-08-03T01:34:24 < Cracki> hah that is surely cheaper to buy injection molded https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3125601
2019-08-03T01:37:06 < PaulFertser> Who needs so many through-hole resistors these days anyway?
2019-08-03T01:37:08 < zyp> cheaper, but slower
2019-08-03T01:37:39 < zyp> the nice part about 3d printers isn't that you can make cheap shit, it's that you can make shit when you need it
2019-08-03T01:39:27 < PaulFertser> My brother considers buying some DIY kits for 500 series rack. Like https://capi-gear.com/catalog/index.php . Assembly is trivial (just a small amount of huge through-hole components). But can this make any sense for professional use?
2019-08-03T01:41:57 < jadew> that bending joke is fun
2019-08-03T01:42:08 < jadew> that's a SMD gauge
2019-08-03T01:42:12 < jadew> looks useful
2019-08-03T01:42:23 < zyp> not really
2019-08-03T01:42:25 < jadew> much taller than it has to be
2019-08-03T01:42:48 < jadew> zyp, kinda is, for components with odd footprints that would otherwise work with standard footprints
2019-08-03T01:43:02 < zyp> wat
2019-08-03T01:43:31 < jadew> for example an inductor with a footprint you're not familiar with
2019-08-03T01:43:40 < jadew> (and you don't have in your library)
2019-08-03T01:43:49 < jadew> you can just put it there, see what fits best and use that
2019-08-03T01:45:09 < zyp> I fail to see why you would have the part available when you are doing the layout
2019-08-03T01:45:22 < jadew> I often do
2019-08-03T01:45:27 < zyp> why?
2019-08-03T01:45:34 < jadew> I test them before using them in the design
2019-08-03T01:45:53 < zyp> how do you test the parts without a design?
2019-08-03T01:46:19 < zyp> sounds backwards to me
2019-08-03T01:46:53 < jadew> I have generic test boards (for RF stuff)
2019-08-03T01:47:04 < jadew> I solder them there and characterize them
2019-08-03T01:48:13 < jadew> it's all exposed metal, so I don't need an actual footprint
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2019-08-03T01:55:33 < machinehum> jadew: Thanks
2019-08-03T01:55:36 < machinehum> englishman: Thanks
2019-08-03T02:03:49 < Laurenceb> I many times had to throw away all my possessions in fear that they will find and make me homeless or report me to police or social workers or mental hospital. I think all people are bad, all, 100% of people on this planet. Do not trust anybody
2019-08-03T02:04:19 < salcedo> why is throwing away all of your possessions a bad thing?
2019-08-03T02:04:49 -!- jly [uid355225@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gqjhnubyilovxfmd] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-03T02:04:59 < jadew> if it doesn't kindle joy, throw it away
2019-08-03T02:05:05 < salcedo> it's quite liberating to pair down everything you own to just a backpack.
2019-08-03T02:05:26 < Laurenceb> people complained to me for my:
2019-08-03T02:05:34 < Laurenceb>  - sniffing dangerous gas, "oh, heeelp somebody, this guy is sniffing toxic gases for fun"
2019-08-03T02:05:43 < Laurenceb>  - wanting to set various buildings on fire
2019-08-03T02:05:52 < salcedo> yea ok maybe get a fume extractor. danm.
2019-08-03T02:06:04 < Laurenceb>  - doing illegal online stuff (giving dangerous advice, warez, hacking, spying, threats, disturbing people for lulz)
2019-08-03T02:06:21 < jadew> salcedo, then you can sniff from the exhaust hose? :)
2019-08-03T02:06:34 < salcedo> jadew: i already smoke cigs. that's bad enough.
2019-08-03T02:06:38 < Laurenceb> this is why I hate humanity
2019-08-03T02:07:05 < jadew> Laurenceb, and what did you say in response to all those complaints?
2019-08-03T02:07:32 < Laurenceb> dunno its the original shitposter got b& from 4chan
2019-08-03T02:08:33 < Laurenceb> keeek their flag is Malta
2019-08-03T02:08:41 < jly> thanks 
2019-08-03T02:09:02 < jly> what's all this about?
2019-08-03T02:09:20 < Laurenceb> le chronic shitposting
2019-08-03T02:11:08 < Laurenceb> I'm just a peaceful everyday dude who petrol bombs public buildings for fun
2019-08-03T02:11:12 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
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2019-08-03T02:13:42 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/cOT6HKwk/savs.png
2019-08-03T02:14:00 < jly> i got away with everything!
2019-08-03T02:14:17 < rajkosto> what is this
2019-08-03T02:15:28 < jly> the greatest nonce that ever lived
2019-08-03T02:16:16 < Laurenceb> based
2019-08-03T02:17:36 < Laurenceb> al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
2019-08-03T02:17:58 < rajkosto> https://pastebin.com/CEjtA4Rx so if i uncomment that line, ARR just keeps getting smaller and smaller, because it can never grow
2019-08-03T02:18:12 < rajkosto> if i never change it from 0xFFFF then things seem to work
2019-08-03T02:18:28 < rajkosto> but it means my "UPDATE" branch of detecting constant 1 or 0 value can be too late
2019-08-03T02:19:45 < zyp> rajkosto, what do you mean it can never grow?
2019-08-03T02:19:53 < zyp> of course it can
2019-08-03T02:19:56 < rajkosto> nope
2019-08-03T02:20:08 < rajkosto> the commented line only shrinks it
2019-08-03T02:20:24 < rajkosto> once you shrink it below detected pwm frequency it can no longer detect it, UPDATE event happens too often
2019-08-03T02:21:11 < zyp> well, 1.007 is probably a bit too agressive a scaling factor
2019-08-03T02:21:26 < zyp> depending on resolution and stability and other shit
2019-08-03T02:21:29 < rajkosto> well lets say theres some noise on the line
2019-08-03T02:21:36 < rajkosto> and it detects a bogus pulse of really short duration
2019-08-03T02:21:44 < rajkosto> after that ARR will be set to a really low value and nothing will be detected anymore
2019-08-03T02:21:50 < rajkosto> UPDATE branch will be the only one that fires from then on
2019-08-03T02:21:55 < zyp> but still, it can grow with 0.7% per cycle
2019-08-03T02:22:10 < zyp> also, in the update event, just do something like this: ARR <<= 1;
2019-08-03T02:22:42 < zyp> and find a more reasonable factor than 1.007 for the other one
2019-08-03T02:22:50 < rajkosto> thats the variance i measured on scope
2019-08-03T02:23:01 < zyp> by the way, do you even need frequency tracking?
2019-08-03T02:23:19 < zyp> if the frequency is relatively constant, just set ARR to a reasonable fixed value
2019-08-03T02:23:30 < zyp> like actual freq + 10% or something
2019-08-03T02:23:35 < rajkosto> it will be relatively constant... but different devices will output different frequencies
2019-08-03T02:23:51 < rajkosto> there are 62.5KHz ones, 20KHz ones, and even 420Hz ones
2019-08-03T02:24:06 < zyp> what's this for anyway?
2019-08-03T02:24:19 < rajkosto> AURA SYNC 12V header to 5V addressable rgb strip converter
2019-08-03T02:24:31 < rajkosto> different mobo brands have different pwm frequencies
2019-08-03T02:24:38 < zyp> ah
2019-08-03T02:25:21 < zyp> have you considered doing a frequency learning step first, and then keeping a fixed ARR from the learned value?
2019-08-03T02:25:47 < rajkosto> i didnt want to
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2019-08-03T02:26:17 < zyp> well, then enjoy the result :)
2019-08-03T02:26:40 < rajkosto> but yes that would also change the prescaler for the HZ to KHz difference
2019-08-03T02:26:47 < rajkosto> if i wanted to keep accuracy
2019-08-03T02:27:05 < rajkosto> meh
2019-08-03T02:29:17 < zyp> hmm
2019-08-03T02:29:32 < zyp> anyway, in the update event you could just set ARR to max
2019-08-03T02:30:53 < zyp> as long as you keep hitting ARR, you're just getting 0% or 100% still, and as soon as you start getting pulses again you learn the period
2019-08-03T02:32:27 < rajkosto> wont that delay the first pulse after the constant period
2019-08-03T02:33:15 < zyp> yeah, there's an edge case if you have a constant period followed by a pulse, followed by 0%
2019-08-03T02:34:15 < zyp> but really, one pulse at 420Hz or more, shit's not even visible
2019-08-03T02:34:23 < zyp> might as well drop the entire pulse processing
2019-08-03T02:34:29 < rajkosto> but if i setup the prescaler so that period is as close to 0xFFFF anyway
2019-08-03T02:35:03 < rajkosto> then no problemo in having it reset to 0xFFFF on luls
2019-08-03T02:35:12 < rajkosto> still only 1.X normal periods
2019-08-03T02:35:19 < zyp> I mean, if I understand the application correctly, there's no point in caring about every single pulse
2019-08-03T02:40:04 < rajkosto> what do i need to flip so it naturally counts the pulses inverted tho
2019-08-03T02:40:09 < zyp> I guess the way I'd design this, I'd have a state machine with three states; 0%, 100% and pwm, trailing edge only captures, no interrupt, leading edge interrupt does CC1/CC2 to find pwm% if you're already in pwm state, otherwise it switches you to pwm state without updating output
2019-08-03T02:40:35 < zyp> update interrupt switches you from pwm state to 0% or 100% depending on pin state
2019-08-03T02:40:57 < rajkosto> i dont want to do the calculation every interrupt
2019-08-03T02:41:10 < zyp> the division?
2019-08-03T02:41:13 < rajkosto> yes
2019-08-03T02:41:34 < zyp> well, you don't have to, if you're averaging you can just accumulate CC1 and CC2 independently and divide later
2019-08-03T02:42:50 < rajkosto> does TIM_SelectInputTrigger(RGB1_TIMER, TIM_TS_TI1FP1); need to change if i am switching TIM_ICInitStructure.TIM_ICPolarity = TIM_ICPolarity_Rising to Falling ?
2019-08-03T02:43:09 < zyp> I don't remember :)
2019-08-03T02:51:22 < rajkosto> also what is up with downcounting timers
2019-08-03T02:51:32 < aandrew> what're you doing?
2019-08-03T02:51:45 < rajkosto> doing pwm input capture
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2019-08-03T03:00:20 < rajkosto> also NEVER set arr to 0, wont even get UPDATE event after that
2019-08-03T03:06:12 < aandrew> aha
2019-08-03T03:08:53 < bitmask> hmm 72 silk to soldermask design check fails
2019-08-03T03:08:58 < rajkosto> thats fine
2019-08-03T03:09:01 < rajkosto> i never care about those
2019-08-03T03:09:30 < bitmask> oh yea?
2019-08-03T03:09:31 < bitmask> cool
2019-08-03T03:09:32 < rajkosto> you probaby set the clearance of that to default
2019-08-03T03:09:36 < rajkosto> you can lower it considerably
2019-08-03T03:10:00 < rajkosto> its not like you can absolutely make sure all text isnt being cut off EVEN BY A SINGLE PIXEL by the soldermask not being there
2019-08-03T03:14:38 < bitmask> can you edit the footprint of an imported library in altium?
2019-08-03T03:14:40 < aandrew> yeah I ignore all silk errors
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2019-08-03T03:18:48 < bitmask> I just changed my footprint a bit, the silkscreen was going over pads, now its down to 18 and is just due to spacing so I'm sure its fine anyway
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2019-08-03T03:30:44 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/JafE48s.png
2019-08-03T03:30:54 < bitmask> meh not perfect but it should do (one and a half digits)
2019-08-03T03:33:37 < aandrew> if I were you I'd ask your PCB fab to tent those vias (you do this in altium but ask the fab to do it too so it's not missed)
2019-08-03T03:34:11 < aandrew> Why do you use two different SMD sizes for the R and C?
2019-08-03T03:34:40 < bitmask> I guess thats not great design practice, I only have 0805 caps but I have different sized resistors
2019-08-03T03:35:51 < bitmask> what is a tented via? :P
2019-08-03T03:36:05 < rajkosto> what do you mean "ask the fab"
2019-08-03T03:36:08 < rajkosto> the fab respects the silkscreen layer
2019-08-03T03:36:18 < rajkosto> check the vias as tented in altium and its done
2019-08-03T03:36:25 < rajkosto> its not a silly software that allows you to either tent all or tent no vias
2019-08-03T03:36:37 < rajkosto> its specified per via 
2019-08-03T03:36:44 < aandrew> a tented via is a via with soldermask over it
2019-08-03T03:36:53 < bitmask> oh I see
2019-08-03T03:37:00 < aandrew> you can't solder to them but that's the point -- you've got them under your devices and that could cause trouble
2019-08-03T03:37:04 < rajkosto> per via, in altium you can check if you want it tented on front and back side
2019-08-03T03:37:08 < rajkosto> for MOST of them you want this checkedf
2019-08-03T03:37:11 < aandrew> the via holes are a little large by my standards but I like tiny holes
2019-08-03T03:37:12 < bitmask> is that considered a hidden via? or is a hidden via a via between sandwhiched layers that dont see the outside
2019-08-03T03:37:13 < aandrew> 0.2mm is my standard
2019-08-03T03:37:20 < rajkosto> hidden/buried vias are a different thing
2019-08-03T03:37:24 < bitmask> ok thought so
2019-08-03T03:37:30 < rajkosto> aandrew, 0.3mm holes are standard cheapo
2019-08-03T03:37:37 < aandrew> a buried via is one that has no access to an outer layer. blind is a via that comes out to only one side
2019-08-03T03:37:44 < aandrew> rajkosto: yeah i know
2019-08-03T03:37:47 < aandrew> 0.3 isn't bad for tenting
2019-08-03T03:37:50 < aandrew> I just like tiny vias
2019-08-03T03:37:58 < rajkosto> tent all vias unless you specifically need access to them
2019-08-03T03:38:03 < bitmask> k
2019-08-03T03:38:04 < rajkosto> and in that case... consider making that an explicit testpad
2019-08-03T03:38:21 < aandrew> microvias are under 0.2mm I think? I don't know where the limit is for microvias but they're usually pricey because you're either breaking a lot of bits to drill them or you're using a laser to do it
2019-08-03T03:38:32 < aandrew> rajkosto: yep that's my motto
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2019-08-03T03:38:39 < bitmask> when you talk about via size do you mean the pad or the hole
2019-08-03T03:38:46 < aandrew> I have like 7 different "footprints" for test points. 
2019-08-03T03:38:51 < aandrew> bitmask: always the hole
2019-08-03T03:39:02 < rajkosto> zyp, sometimes this happens https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-03_02-39-00_3M3e98rFg.png
2019-08-03T03:39:07 < Laurenceb> oh sheet
2019-08-03T03:39:09 < Laurenceb> https://yro.slashdot.org/story/19/08/02/1858255/pentagon-testing-mass-surveillance-balloons-across-the-us
2019-08-03T03:39:17 < Laurenceb>  #highaltitude have gone evil
2019-08-03T03:39:26 < aandrew> Laurenceb: worried one is gonna come across the atlantic
2019-08-03T03:42:24 < Laurenceb> meanwhile in bongland
2019-08-03T03:42:25 < Laurenceb> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/back-garden-chemist-jailed-for-selling-controlled-chemicals
2019-08-03T03:43:06 < bitmask> jlcpcb says it can do .2mm for holes so i'll do that then
2019-08-03T03:43:14 < bitmask> how much current can that handle?
2019-08-03T03:44:07 < Laurenceb> http://circuitcalculator.com/wordpress/2006/03/12/pcb-via-calculator/
2019-08-03T03:44:28 < bitmask> shush you, just gimme answers
2019-08-03T03:48:47 < bitmask> what are you going by? ampacity?
2019-08-03T03:49:02 < bitmask> power loss?
2019-08-03T03:50:20 < bitmask> so for 10C rise a 0.2mm via can handle 0.7A?
2019-08-03T03:50:25 < bitmask> sound about right?
2019-08-03T03:50:36 < bitmask> I only need 60 mA
2019-08-03T03:51:11 < Laurenceb> thats no issue
2019-08-03T03:51:55 < bitmask> didnt think so after playing with calculators
2019-08-03T03:55:41 < salcedo> lol @ mass surveillance balloons. can't wait til one pops and crashes in the hood and they repurpose it into Tyrone's Airmax.
2019-08-03T03:57:42 < bitmask> how do you tent the via in altium?
2019-08-03T03:57:48 < bitmask> I dont see a specific option
2019-08-03T03:58:11 < jadew> Laurenceb, that new story is missing some information there
2019-08-03T03:58:55 < jadew> for one, it sounds like that guy was a legit chemist
2019-08-03T03:59:24 < Laurenceb> he was the mod of sciencemadness.org forums
2019-08-03T03:59:50 < jadew> not sure to make of that, does that make him a legit chemist?
2019-08-03T03:59:56 < Laurenceb> he also sold some alu powder to terrorists
2019-08-03T04:00:10 < Laurenceb> so the police were looking for any excuse to attack him
2019-08-03T04:00:10 < jadew> knowingly?
2019-08-03T04:00:24 < Laurenceb> no, he thought they were hobbyists
2019-08-03T04:00:26 < jadew> aluminium powder can't be illegal, is it?
2019-08-03T04:00:47 < Laurenceb> nope but sellers are supposed to keep records and ask for id
2019-08-03T04:00:50 < Laurenceb> and he didnt
2019-08-03T04:01:08 < jadew> ... you can make that stuff at home
2019-08-03T04:01:08 < Laurenceb> so they went rage mode on him :(
2019-08-03T04:02:07 < jadew> you know what they should ban in the UK?
2019-08-03T04:02:09 < jadew> knifes
2019-08-03T04:02:48 < jadew> I heard they're the #1 weapon of choice there
2019-08-03T04:04:51 < Laurenceb> yeah
2019-08-03T04:05:08 < Laurenceb> drain cleaner is disappearing
2019-08-03T04:05:19 < Laurenceb> its weird, just in the last week about half of it has gone
2019-08-03T04:05:48 < jadew> you should stockpile
2019-08-03T04:05:56 < Laurenceb> >evacuate whole neighbourhood for 2 days over the alu powder
2019-08-03T04:05:59 < Laurenceb> the absolute state
2019-08-03T04:06:18 < jadew> ... what do they think it's going to happen?
2019-08-03T04:06:27 < Laurenceb> I was reading some old soviet papers on compact nitric acid manufacture using microwaves
2019-08-03T04:06:56 < Laurenceb> this soviet microwave assisted chemistry shit seems a bit emdrive tier
2019-08-03T04:07:33 < Laurenceb> supposedly they use it on their submarines, but there is no evidence of it anywhere else
2019-08-03T04:08:40 < Laurenceb> inb4 putin makes an emdrive powered submarine
2019-08-03T04:09:27 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-03_03-09-26_0ZYs22xdg.png help
2019-08-03T04:09:45 < englishman> lol
2019-08-03T04:09:49 < jadew> ctrl + 0
2019-08-03T04:09:54 < rajkosto> its supposedly Ctrl + +/-
2019-08-03T04:09:57 < rajkosto> but i can only do -
2019-08-03T04:10:30 < jadew> so you thought that if you do it enough times it will cycle back?
2019-08-03T04:10:37 < rajkosto> i was mashing the general area
2019-08-03T04:12:39 < rajkosto> i went into preferences and reset defaults for general/appearance/foints
2019-08-03T04:15:07 < rajkosto> zyp, i did the state thing and it didnt change much
2019-08-03T04:22:55 < englishman> another quality zup install https://i.imgur.com/lBr9n6M.jpg
2019-08-03T04:23:11 < rajkosto> dont touch that dial now
2019-08-03T04:33:14 < salcedo> wat is 'zup'
2019-08-03T04:35:12 < bitmask> so I just made a rule for vias to have a soldermask expansion of -18mil, sound right?
2019-08-03T04:35:52 < rajkosto> dont do that
2019-08-03T04:35:58 < bitmask> what?
2019-08-03T04:36:11 < rajkosto> just check "Tented" in via properties...
2019-08-03T04:36:23 < rajkosto> then they wont make a hole in the soldermask
2019-08-03T04:36:41 < bitmask> what version of altium are you using? I dont see that
2019-08-03T04:36:48 < bitmask> https://www.altium.com/documentation/18.0/display/ADES/PCB_Dlg-SolderMaskExpansionRule_Frame((Solder+Mask+Expansion))_AD
2019-08-03T04:36:48 < rajkosto> any
2019-08-03T04:36:54 < bitmask> I was going by that
2019-08-03T04:37:00 < rajkosto> its not a rule
2019-08-03T04:37:17 < bitmask> I dont see it in the properties
2019-08-03T04:37:44 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-03_03-37-44_L1vsSlX7g.png
2019-08-03T04:38:25 < bitmask> wtf
2019-08-03T04:38:30 < bitmask> those checkboxes aren't on mine
2019-08-03T04:38:46 < rajkosto> select a via not pad
2019-08-03T04:38:47 < bitmask> the link button is all the way to the right, let me try expanding it
2019-08-03T04:38:58 < rajkosto> tho even pad has tented
2019-08-03T04:39:01 < bitmask> it is a via
2019-08-03T04:39:12 < bitmask> expanding does nothing, those checkboxes arent there
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2019-08-03T04:39:37 < rajkosto> https://www.altium.com/documentation/15.1/display/ADES/PCB_Dlg-ViaProperties((Via))_AD its been there since forever
2019-08-03T04:39:56 < rajkosto> https://www.altium.com/documentation/18.0/display/ADES/PCB_Prop-Via((Via+Properties))_AD
2019-08-03T04:47:04 < bitmask> there is a checkbox, it doesnt say tented though
2019-08-03T04:47:39 < rajkosto> you can take a screenshot you know
2019-08-03T04:48:21 < bitmask> what more is to describe? it looks just like yours but without the word tented and the checkbox is on the left of the expansion amount
2019-08-03T04:48:31 < rajkosto> thats the override checkbox
2019-08-03T04:48:37 < rajkosto> not what you want
2019-08-03T04:48:38 < rajkosto> you want tentend
2019-08-03T04:49:05 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/MNDxAwS
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2019-08-03T04:57:40 < rajkosto> ok for some reason my UPDATE flag is always being set in the interrupt
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2019-08-03T05:46:39 < englishman> hmm its not this stm32 at all
2019-08-03T05:46:44 < englishman> its this fucking msp430
2019-08-03T05:47:01 < englishman> spewing garbage into my vcc
2019-08-03T05:48:42 < rajkosto> is TIM3 on stm32f103 special at all
2019-08-03T05:48:48 < rajkosto> its the only one that CC capture dont work
2019-08-03T05:49:06 < englishman> they are all kinda special and different
2019-08-03T05:50:55 < rajkosto> ah i need to do alt func remap
2019-08-03T05:54:04 < rajkosto> still didnt do it
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2019-08-03T05:57:41 < rajkosto> gotta give clock to AFIO first
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2019-08-03T06:02:04 < englishman> ahh f1
2019-08-03T06:02:21 < rajkosto> yes the later proper alternate function mapping scheme is much better
2019-08-03T06:25:07 < rajkosto> i dunno why i have glitches/jumps in this input capture, maybe 62.25KHz is waay too much ?
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2019-08-03T07:39:17 < rajkosto> what opamp to use for Sallen Key Low Pass Filter
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2019-08-03T10:52:23 < Thorn> g0 workshop https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnMKNibPkDnG1xN9JSrrwMWt5ngQQchAa&fbclid=IwAR2Z3ksNnAAwILCRTi9KSM-SGmHCvzCjt1sdmYMLFkUSxqHAbZMqjM1UKio
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2019-08-03T11:36:08 < Thorn> tat one is crap, this is better https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnMKNibPkDnHzPe0MJmH_CX4OO7QsGzsk
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2019-08-03T12:24:12 < antto> a dual opamp ;P~
2019-08-03T12:24:47 < con3> anyone else having issues connecting to some freenode servers?
2019-08-03T12:26:41 < antto> con3 just connect to chat.freenode.net and it'll pick one for you
2019-08-03T12:27:08 < antto> and fyi, most people don't /quit
2019-08-03T12:27:12 < con3> ah thanks antto! seems like 10 of the ones i have listed just went off
2019-08-03T12:27:31 < jpa-> yeah, party people never quit, they just /disco
2019-08-03T12:27:43 < antto> /party-harder
2019-08-03T12:27:55 < antto> /moar-RedBulls
2019-08-03T12:28:12 < antto> /sleep-is-for-pu**ies
2019-08-03T12:29:38 < Steffanx> Gooday antto  
2019-08-03T12:29:55 < antto> goo day?
2019-08-03T12:30:14 < antto> my dictionary ain't nearby, but i think that doesn't smell good
2019-08-03T12:34:00 < Steffanx> It's my aussie accent imitation moite
2019-08-03T12:34:17 < Steffanx> Ask jly when he's around
2019-08-03T12:36:00 < PaulFertser> Should've been "goodeye" then ;)
2019-08-03T12:37:41 < Steffanx> Nah
--- Log closed Sat Aug 03 12:47:40 2019
--- Log opened Sat Aug 03 12:54:58 2019
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2019-08-03T14:29:32 < zyp> englishman, cool stuff
2019-08-03T14:30:55 < zyp> one of the places I lived some years ago, there were a potential difference between the shower mixer and the floor when it was wet
2019-08-03T14:31:08 < zyp> made it kinda uncomfortable to shut off the shower
2019-08-03T14:31:41 < zyp> so I twisted a wire around one of the pipes to the mixer and hung it down into the drain, worked fine
2019-08-03T14:35:03 < PaulFertser> zyp: by ussr and russia regulations there must exist a designated place which has all the non-insulated metal parts exposed inside a bathroom attached to, and connected to PE.
2019-08-03T14:36:52 < zyp> yeah, there's similar requirements here too, but houses were built before the regulations were made and sometimes connections come loose
2019-08-03T14:39:28 < PaulFertser> A relative of my friend was killed recently while taking a shower. The exact cause is not known, but it was related to electrical current passing through his body for sure.
2019-08-03T14:42:59 < qyx> http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/lmr14030s
2019-08-03T14:43:00 < qyx> haha
2019-08-03T14:43:21 < zyp> haha
2019-08-03T14:45:53 < PaulFertser> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/%D0%9F%D0%A3%D0%AD._%D0%A0%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BA_1.7.7.tif <- how it must be done
2019-08-03T14:46:42 < zyp> I'm not sure what's what there
2019-08-03T14:47:51 < PaulFertser> Bathtub is visible
2019-08-03T14:47:59 < zyp> C7?
2019-08-03T14:48:22 < PaulFertser> Yep, and C6 is for drying towels
2019-08-03T14:48:50 < zyp> hmm, I don't think we ground stuff like that here
2019-08-03T14:49:09 < zyp> just the water inlet and the drain
2019-08-03T14:49:15 < zyp> and all electrical equipment
2019-08-03T14:49:42 < PaulFertser> According to the text all the metal parts that can possibly be connected to anything outside the room must be interconnected and grounded.
2019-08-03T14:49:49 < zyp> speaking of, do you still use metal pipes for water?
2019-08-03T14:49:59 < PaulFertser> (the water is supposed to be an insulator though)
2019-08-03T14:51:00 < PaulFertser> I guess some are using metal, yes, but of course plenty of PP and hybrid metal/plastic tubings too.
2019-08-03T14:52:22 < zyp> most water installations nowadays are run hidden in the walls, and for that they use PEX pipes running in an outer conduit to catch any leaks
2019-08-03T14:57:06 < qyx> interesting those conduits
2019-08-03T14:57:18 < qyx> here they usually use thermal fused PPR tubing
2019-08-03T14:57:27 < qyx> sometimes pex-al-pex
2019-08-03T15:01:53 < PaulFertser> I'm not sure how popular PEX is here, it's kinda expensive. I'm not much into building, so probably I just lack the info. Does Thorn possibly know?
2019-08-03T15:08:53 < PaulFertser> I see PEX is thermally fused too. But PP is cheaper.
2019-08-03T15:35:45 < aandrew> pex is all we do here now
2019-08-03T15:35:52 < aandrew> well not "now" but for quite a number of years
2019-08-03T15:36:16 < aandrew> it is a lot nicer to work with and the soft curves everywhere improve flow
2019-08-03T15:36:27 < aandrew> unless you're my plumber who put fucking 90s everywhere... with pex. wtf
2019-08-03T15:45:02 < salcedo> pex rulez
2019-08-03T15:45:40 < salcedo> i have a bunch of it. fittings. cutters. crimp tool.
2019-08-03T16:03:48 < englishman> hmm, PEX is super cheap
2019-08-03T16:03:53 < englishman> cheaper than copper
2019-08-03T16:03:56 < salcedo> yea
2019-08-03T16:04:01 < englishman> and much easier to work
2019-08-03T16:04:03 < salcedo> but holy shit the fittings and the tools to work with it?
2019-08-03T16:04:11 < salcedo> you pay out the ass for that convenience
2019-08-03T16:04:23 < salcedo> the crimp set was like $150
2019-08-03T16:04:31 < salcedo> it's super nice though. came with a bunch of rings.
2019-08-03T16:05:19 < salcedo> still cheaper than copper though.
2019-08-03T16:06:31 < salcedo> also you're not screwed if you make a mistake with pex. copper is less forgiving.
2019-08-03T16:19:52 < qyx> why, copper is cool
2019-08-03T16:20:02 < qyx> tooling is 20e maybe
2019-08-03T16:20:44 < qyx> I hate crimped pex, fittings cost like 5x more
2019-08-03T16:22:21 < qyx> copper pipe itself is more expensive here than pex though
2019-08-03T16:22:23 < salcedo> we don't do euros here. ameribux only
2019-08-03T16:22:33 < qyx> sry
2019-08-03T16:24:12 < salcedo> copper more expensive. fittings price probably the same as pex fittings
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2019-08-03T16:44:11 < englishman> pex fittings are cheap, and reusable
2019-08-03T16:44:23 < englishman> tools are cheap too, was like $30 for the 3 tools
2019-08-03T17:20:14 < Laurenceb> I used PP for my house
2019-08-03T17:20:22 < Laurenceb> with a bit of copper in places
2019-08-03T17:20:39 < mawk> polypepelene
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2019-08-03T18:17:30 < Laurenceb> correct
2019-08-03T18:17:46 < Laurenceb> MPPGA
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2019-08-03T18:23:09 < Laurenceb> oh wow they are still posting
2019-08-03T18:23:10 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45824.1280
2019-08-03T18:23:22 < Laurenceb> literally more retarded than steorn fans
2019-08-03T18:23:28 < Laurenceb> or eestor
2019-08-03T18:23:47 -!- nikomo [~quassel@nikomo.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
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2019-08-03T18:27:42 < Laurenceb> To me this is a clear tell that there is something very serious going on in the area of new physics for space flight.  The article mentions videos showing high speed flying phenomena released by the US Navy and duly reported by the NY Times amongst others.  The huge tell there was the fact that the videos were released with full chain of evidence documentation.
2019-08-03T18:28:20 < Laurenceb> >Pais's patents flow as an intimidating river of mumbo-jumbo that most trained physicists would recognize as nonsense, although many might simply disengage in confusion
2019-08-03T18:28:22 < Laurenceb> keeek
2019-08-03T18:47:16 < jadew> I'm starting to think Laurenceb works for the government and his job is to discredit amazing discoveries that would result in great advances for all humanity
2019-08-03T18:47:35 < Laurenceb> ^crackpot spotted
2019-08-03T18:48:20 < jadew> that's still on script
2019-08-03T18:49:32 < jadew> are you a robot?
2019-08-03T18:50:04 < Laurenceb> are you?
2019-08-03T18:50:26 < jadew> evading the question... I smell a robot.
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2019-08-03T18:51:21 < sync> you yourself are evading the question
2019-08-03T18:54:10 < jadew> I'm not a robot tho, honest.
2019-08-03T18:55:37 < jadew> how would you go about proving you're not a robot?
2019-08-03T18:55:58 < jadew> I actually gave it some thought just now, and I think it's impossible
2019-08-03T18:56:33 < salcedo> "great advances for all humanity"
2019-08-03T18:57:15 < jadew> salcedo, I was trolling
2019-08-03T18:57:53 < jadew> I'm that part of the botnet that makes sarcastic jokes about what Laurenceb is pushing, in order to reinforce his position
2019-08-03T18:58:45 < salcedo> i knew you were both part of SoyNet. i'm that part of the botnet that points out the sarcastic part of the botnet with more sarcasm.
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2019-08-03T18:59:50 < jadew> best part about all this is that it could be true
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2019-08-03T19:24:50 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/LJm8s6P.png
2019-08-03T19:24:52 < bitmask> meh
2019-08-03T19:24:53 < bitmask> this will do i guess
2019-08-03T19:27:44 < bitmask> should I do it in white or black hmm
2019-08-03T19:27:45 < Cracki> 14/15 are for : ?
2019-08-03T19:27:53 < bitmask> 15 16 you mean?
2019-08-03T19:27:56 < Cracki> white for best light reflection?
2019-08-03T19:28:05 < Cracki> no, 16 looks like a segment of the second digit
2019-08-03T19:28:18 < bitmask> ohhh youre right
2019-08-03T19:28:24 < bitmask> 14/15 are for half a digit
2019-08-03T19:28:33 < bitmask> its temperature so its not going over 199
2019-08-03T19:28:49 < Cracki> unless you believe in global warming
2019-08-03T19:30:11 < bitmask> hmm, how do you do drill holes in altium
2019-08-03T19:30:38 < bitmask> just draw a circle on a mechanical layer?
2019-08-03T19:32:35 < Cracki> must be some amazing program if they don't make this obvious
2019-08-03T19:32:49 < bitmask> nothing is obvious in altium
2019-08-03T19:33:05 < Cracki> it has a hole size editor... but that looks like it's for holes you made already
2019-08-03T19:33:29 < Cracki> could be a type of... pad
2019-08-03T19:35:02 < bitmask> yea I think it may be
2019-08-03T19:36:07 < salcedo> bitmask: i make boardz 2
2019-08-03T19:36:27 < salcedo> https://postimg.cc/R65WyV9t
2019-08-03T19:38:03 < salcedo> that's being mounted over where the temperature control knob was in this oven
2019-08-03T19:38:09 < Cracki> apparently a drilled hole is a pad with an unplated hole in it... i see why one would wanna unify those concepts but wtf
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2019-08-03T19:39:14 < bitmask> salcedo nice looking board, mine isn't so pretty but im not very good at this routing stuff
2019-08-03T19:39:24 < salcedo> oh this sucks
2019-08-03T19:39:27 < bitmask> heh ok
2019-08-03T19:39:44 < bitmask> this is only my second board
2019-08-03T19:39:48 < salcedo> i'm kind of worried that the esp8266 on the bottom is going to push much noise into the max31855
2019-08-03T19:39:54 < bitmask> well third, but first two were one project
2019-08-03T19:40:08 < salcedo> we'll see what happens. if it doesn't work, i'm only out like $20
2019-08-03T19:40:58 < salcedo> yea this is my third board too
2019-08-03T19:41:23 < salcedo> it's version 2 of the reflow oven controller pcb
2019-08-03T19:45:08 < bitmask> alright, mounting holes done, now i just gotta create some slots for snapping in the 3d printed diffusers 
2019-08-03T19:46:59 < bitmask> sucks that one of the pads doesn't have access to the power plane and I gotta create a via and trace to get it access :(
2019-08-03T19:47:02 < bitmask> can't see a way around it
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2019-08-03T19:50:49 < mawk> Steffanx what website do you use voor werk zoeken ?
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2019-08-03T20:29:37 < markus-k> rcc_osc_on(RCC_LSE); rcc_wait_for_osc_ready(RCC_LSE); should be all thats needed for starting the LSE, isn't it?
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2019-08-03T20:49:32 < mawk> there are two disgusting rotten dead rats on the floor near the bench I'm sitting on
2019-08-03T20:49:45 < mawk> hashtag paris
2019-08-03T20:49:59 < Cracki> delicious
2019-08-03T20:50:48 < mawk> I nearly stepped on it
2019-08-03T20:53:04 < Cracki> did all the street cleaning workers quit or does the shit pile up just that quickly?
2019-08-03T20:53:34  * Cracki compares with ww2 pics of paris
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2019-08-03T20:58:05 < Cracki> love those compositions where they hold up an old pic of a place, with the place right now behind it
2019-08-03T20:58:21 < mawk> it piles up quickly
2019-08-03T20:58:32 < mawk> there are thousands of rats in all public gardens
2019-08-03T20:58:45 < mawk> even though seeing how this rat is rotten I think it's not fresh of the day
2019-08-03T20:58:58 < mawk> it's so incrustated into the ground maybe the worker didn't see it
2019-08-03T20:59:43 < Cracki> WHAT DO YOU MEAN MY RAT ISN'T FRESH? https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/asterix/images/0/0f/Unhygienix.gif/revision/latest?cb=20110321154100
2019-08-03T21:00:04 < mawk> lol
2019-08-03T21:00:05 < Cracki> you should make an instagram account
2019-08-03T21:00:10 < mawk> I was reading these when I was a kid
2019-08-03T21:00:15 < mawk> astérix and obélix
2019-08-03T21:01:04 < Cracki> "poisson distribution" (distribution of fish) https://www.pinterest.com/pin/564849978240306867/
2019-08-03T21:06:18 -!- psprint_ [~psprint@91.245.82.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-08-03T21:07:06 < salcedo> mawk: why are there rats?
2019-08-03T21:07:31 < Cracki> they fled poor economic circumstances
2019-08-03T21:08:04 < salcedo> multicultuRATlism
2019-08-03T21:09:51 < bitmask> alright the board is done, just gotta figure out how I want to mount the diffusers
2019-08-03T21:10:21 < mawk> I don't know salcedo , they just started replicating enormously a few years ago
2019-08-03T21:10:28 < mawk> now all public parks are full of them
2019-08-03T21:10:47 < mawk> maybe because of garbage people leave, rats feed on that
2019-08-03T21:10:50 < salcedo> mawk: i heard the democratic peoples republic of california has a similar issue with rats
2019-08-03T21:11:01 < Cracki> you get used to them
2019-08-03T21:11:24 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-08-03T21:11:44 < salcedo> this year's grand solar minimum sign was an insane house fly infestation
2019-08-03T21:12:04 < salcedo> was able to get it under control in a few days but it was unreal
2019-08-03T21:12:22 < salcedo> the cats were getting fat off of them
2019-08-03T21:13:15 < bitmask> gross
2019-08-03T21:13:39 < Cracki> furry lizards
2019-08-03T21:13:47 < salcedo> my old man was like "i don't understand what's different this year"
2019-08-03T21:14:08 < salcedo> just shook my head and said "sorry. you're not meant to know."
2019-08-03T21:23:26 < emeb> sky raisins
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2019-08-03T22:00:46 < bitmask> hmm what thickness to make these boards, 1.6 is the default but I don't think it needs to be that big, 1.2?
2019-08-03T22:09:55 < sync> as thicc as you can get them
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2019-08-03T22:16:41 < Cracki> weight difference. can affect shipping
2019-08-03T22:18:01 < salcedo> why as thick as possible?
2019-08-03T22:18:31 < salcedo> i'm really fat and would prefer my boards to be thin so as to encourage me to keep losing weight.
2019-08-03T22:18:33 < Cracki> he was referring to juicy thighs
2019-08-03T22:18:49 < Cracki> I was too
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2019-08-03T22:23:28 < bitmask> damn, putting the second digit on the board raised the price from $5 to $11, :P I dont think I can manage that 
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2019-08-03T22:39:26 < Steffanx> awh
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2019-08-03T22:45:34 < kakimir> gearbox failure
2019-08-03T22:46:16 < kakimir> tongue at right angle I was able to get 2nd gear in and drive home
2019-08-03T22:46:30 < kakimir> i must have sounded like speedrace
2019-08-03T22:46:38 < kakimir> 15krpm
2019-08-03T22:51:12 < sync> my throttle cable snapped once
2019-08-03T22:51:32 < sync> I was lucky that I could reach under my ass and twist the throttlebody by hand
2019-08-03T22:52:33 < specing> kakimir: on a motorcycle?
2019-08-03T22:52:47 < kakimir> yes
2019-08-03T22:53:33 < kakimir> sync: if that is to happen just jam throttlebody to full power with piece of debris
2019-08-03T22:53:44 < kakimir> #kakitips
2019-08-03T22:53:51 < sync> pls
2019-08-03T22:54:18 < sync> my carb was so clapped out on damp spring/autumn days it would freeze and not close the throttle anymore
2019-08-03T22:54:44 < sync> fun sitting at the lights with the bike banging off the limiter for a minute or so until it unfroze again
2019-08-03T22:54:51 < kakimir> most likelly it was the cable
2019-08-03T22:55:01 < kakimir> ?
2019-08-03T22:55:11 < kakimir> are you certain it was throttle body?
2019-08-03T22:56:09 < sync> yes
2019-08-03T22:57:11 < kakimir> good to know
2019-08-03T22:57:19 < kakimir> when I take my R6 for winter ride
2019-08-03T22:58:08 < kakimir> snow mobile has much more beefy heating circuit for carbs
2019-08-03T22:58:49 < sync> fuel injection is so much better
2019-08-03T22:58:52 < kakimir> it can actually boil the carb tanks so there is valve to control it
2019-08-03T23:12:31 < kakimir> should I put a track and ski to my R6 in winter?
2019-08-03T23:16:08 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTPOqpHXAbo
2019-08-03T23:28:02 < Steffanx> ofcourse
2019-08-03T23:28:44 < kakimir> yes
2019-08-03T23:28:48 < kakimir> my friend is making one
2019-08-03T23:29:03 < kakimir> I volunteer to get it installed to my bike for testing
2019-08-03T23:34:26 < Steffanx> did you stop the snus kakimir?
2019-08-03T23:34:36 < kakimir> how so?
2019-08-03T23:34:51 < Steffanx> you havent mentioned it for a while
2019-08-03T23:35:00 < kakimir> snus!
2019-08-03T23:35:39 < kakimir> absoltutelly not steff
2019-08-03T23:35:57 < Steffanx> good good
2019-08-03T23:38:48 < Steffanx> did you stop dieing from your heart condition?
2019-08-03T23:39:05 < kakimir> yess
2019-08-03T23:39:16 < kakimir> it was stress after all
2019-08-03T23:39:34 < Steffanx> oh you solved that by no more work :)
2019-08-03T23:39:48 < kakimir> I solved that by barelly working
2019-08-03T23:40:45 < Steffanx> how do you survive no income or does the government provide you?
2019-08-03T23:41:05 < kakimir> I didn't say I stoped to work
2019-08-03T23:41:25 < Steffanx> barely work
2019-08-03T23:41:39 < kakimir> I have little expenses
2019-08-03T23:42:21 < Steffanx> So to support you i can send the waffles to the same address? P
2019-08-03T23:43:06 < kakimir> I'm one waffle away from dying to diabetus
2019-08-03T23:43:10 < englishman> worksonmymachine.pro tls cert updated
2019-08-03T23:43:18 < englishman> surf safely
2019-08-03T23:43:26 < Steffanx> oh shit, reminds me i have to buy waffles for ^ 
2019-08-03T23:43:40 < kakimir> he popped up like he wanted some
2019-08-03T23:43:41 < englishman> you make it sound so imperative
2019-08-03T23:44:01 < Steffanx> yes, since i said i would do so
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2019-08-03T23:49:40 < kakimir> did a trip to ex work
2019-08-03T23:49:48 < kakimir> solved the problem in 2hours
2019-08-03T23:50:19 < englishman> did you bill them 500€/hr
2019-08-03T23:50:30 < kakimir> I have not billed them anything yet
2019-08-03T23:51:25 < kakimir> wrong firmware
2019-08-03T23:51:55 < kakimir> I said to factory use firmware version X
2019-08-03T23:52:21 < kakimir> remove all firmware version Y copys you have anywhere
2019-08-03T23:52:54 < kakimir> then sent a zip with instructions and firmware X in addition to having it sent separatelly
2019-08-03T23:53:31 < kakimir> first line of instructions say.. use firmware X and this is the checksum for it
2019-08-03T23:54:11 < kakimir> I go there and bodge debug wiring to sample unit
2019-08-03T23:54:46 < Steffanx> For free... dont do that kakimir  
2019-08-03T23:54:55 < kakimir> I wont
2019-08-03T23:55:17 < kakimir> so I download the firmware from the sample and low and behold
2019-08-03T23:55:32 < kakimir> it's firmware version Y
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--- Day changed Sun Aug 04 2019
2019-08-04T00:00:22 < jadew> kakimir, never work for free for people who see you as an employee
2019-08-04T00:01:06 < kakimir> I do the billing when I have time
2019-08-04T00:02:28 < kakimir> I may need VAT code as in register a business
2019-08-04T00:02:52 < kakimir> or use billing service but.. I don't feel it
2019-08-04T00:02:53 < jadew> you don't have a limit in your country under which you don't need that?
2019-08-04T00:03:12 < jadew> in here I think it's 100k EUR now
2019-08-04T00:03:15 < kakimir> 3000eur maybe but
2019-08-04T00:03:45 < kakimir> you mean you can get 100k of income to your account without paying taxes?
2019-08-04T00:04:17 < kakimir> there is billing services
2019-08-04T00:04:38 < kakimir> that make a bill for company and pay you it ass salary with taxes paid
2019-08-04T00:04:42 < jadew> that's not tax free, under 100k EUR ran through the company, you can be non-VAT registered
2019-08-04T00:04:49 < jadew> meaning that when you buy stuff, you pay VAT
2019-08-04T00:04:56 < kakimir> oh that
2019-08-04T00:04:58 < jadew> and when you sell stuff, you don't have to charge extra for VAT
2019-08-04T00:05:14 < jadew> so basically you behave a lot like a private person
2019-08-04T00:05:33 < kakimir> it's a while since my business training
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2019-08-04T00:06:56 < Laurenceb> keeek the absolute state of the uk
2019-08-04T00:07:09 < catphish> uk is fine :)
2019-08-04T00:07:17 < Laurenceb> sciencemadness guy has been b& for lief from having "chemicals"
2019-08-04T00:07:19 < Laurenceb> my sides
2019-08-04T00:08:02 < Laurenceb> worse than Alabama
2019-08-04T00:08:14 < Cracki> spoon loicense
2019-08-04T00:08:40 < Laurenceb> oh wow it gets worse
2019-08-04T00:09:00 < Laurenceb> he is b& from "acting as a chemical engineering consultant"
2019-08-04T00:09:52 < Laurenceb> or "working for a company that handles chemicals"
2019-08-04T00:10:08 < catphish> what?
2019-08-04T00:10:31 < Laurenceb> tbh I wondered how long before they targetted sciencemadness after their DIY novichok shit
2019-08-04T00:10:38 < Laurenceb> catphish: court order
2019-08-04T00:11:21 < catphish> banned from where?
2019-08-04T00:11:31 < Laurenceb> not as funny as "based amy" they alt-lite youtube weirdo, who is b& from being within 250m of the sea
2019-08-04T00:12:08 < Laurenceb> catphish: if the police find he is working then he goes to jail
2019-08-04T00:12:55 < catphish> what police? working where? doing what?
2019-08-04T00:13:04 < catphish> i have literally no context here
2019-08-04T00:13:38 < Laurenceb> catphish: I dunno, probably his probation officers
2019-08-04T00:14:16 < Laurenceb> catphish: sciencemadness moderator got caught selling explosives to terrorists
2019-08-04T00:14:26 < catphish> well that's unfortunate
2019-08-04T00:14:39 < Laurenceb> oh wait it was just alu powder doh
2019-08-04T00:14:59 < emeb_mac> how do you ban someone from being within 250m of the sea?
2019-08-04T00:15:09 < Cracki> ankle bracelet
2019-08-04T00:15:12 < emeb_mac> and *why*?
2019-08-04T00:15:20 < Cracki> because it's the u fucking k
2019-08-04T00:15:28 < specing> the kekistan
2019-08-04T00:15:30 < Laurenceb> emeb_mac: most of her trolling videos were filmed at the seaside
2019-08-04T00:15:30 < salcedo> probably because UK has weird laws
2019-08-04T00:15:37 < catphish> well, unfortunately we have a law in the UK, that makes it illegal to be in posession of anything that "might be useful to a terrorist"
2019-08-04T00:15:42 < Cracki> they have weird judges
2019-08-04T00:15:43 < catphish> i think this is a marvellous law
2019-08-04T00:15:57 < specing> catphish: so its illegal to be in possesion of a car?
2019-08-04T00:15:57 < Cracki> brains are illegal, congrats
2019-08-04T00:16:01 < salcedo> catphish: goose poop might be useful to a terrorist?
2019-08-04T00:16:02 < catphish> or food, i guess
2019-08-04T00:16:20 < catphish> maybe it was only literature, i forget
2019-08-04T00:16:25 < catphish> but it's spectaculary vague
2019-08-04T00:16:57 < catphish> so basically, if you sell stuff that might go into a bomb, and it does go into a bomb, you're considered partly to blame
2019-08-04T00:17:15 < catphish> seems mad to me, but i guess they decided it was a necessary way to go after terrorists
2019-08-04T00:17:16 < salcedo> lemme get this straight
2019-08-04T00:17:18 < salcedo> you're saying...
2019-08-04T00:17:24 < emeb_mac> shutdown the fertilizer mfg?
2019-08-04T00:17:41 < salcedo> if i run a hot dog stand, and some ISIS retard buys lunch from me before blowing himself up, I'M PARTLY TO BLAME?
2019-08-04T00:17:44 < emeb_mac> boycott casio watches?
2019-08-04T00:17:45 < salcedo> that's some bulllllllshit.
2019-08-04T00:17:55 < catphish> salcedo: perhaps, lemee see if i can find the details
2019-08-04T00:18:03 < catphish> it definitely applies to books,
2019-08-04T00:18:07 < Laurenceb> yeah
2019-08-04T00:18:24 < catphish> like, if you sell them a plane manual, and they go on to hijack the plane, oops
2019-08-04T00:18:54 < salcedo> i'm sure this law only applies to the average joe though.
2019-08-04T00:19:14 < salcedo> the university the terrorist went to wouldn't apply.
2019-08-04T00:19:21 < catphish> https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/58
2019-08-04T00:19:24 < catphish> that's the law
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2019-08-04T00:19:41 < catphish> "A person commits an offence if he collects or makes a record of information of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism"
2019-08-04T00:19:59 < catphish> "or he possesses a document or record containing information of that kind"
2019-08-04T00:20:16 < salcedo> this only applies to information
2019-08-04T00:20:19 < catphish> so it only applies to "information"
2019-08-04T00:20:38 < catphish> but it's no more specific than that
2019-08-04T00:21:06 < Laurenceb> yeah the sciencemadness guy was caught with some weird law to do with recordkeeping of items that might be used by terrorists
2019-08-04T00:21:44 < Laurenceb> selling anything on the explosives precursors reportable list
2019-08-04T00:21:53 < salcedo> looks like terrorism is working over there much better than here
2019-08-04T00:22:08 < catphish> there's probably a similar law relating to goods
2019-08-04T00:22:12 < Cracki> when your own government keeps you in terror
2019-08-04T00:22:13 < Laurenceb> keeek now he is a physicsforums moderator
2019-08-04T00:22:26 < salcedo> the terrorists have succeeded in getting laws passed that are essentially state sponsored terrorism upon their own citizens.
2019-08-04T00:22:29 < salcedo> good job, UK.
2019-08-04T00:22:29 < Laurenceb> he just swapped to physics
2019-08-04T00:24:24 < salcedo> when is UK going to learn that in order to have a properly functioning techno-authoritarian society, it needs to be sugar coated in iphones, unicorns, starbucks, and gummybears?
2019-08-04T00:31:01 < catphish> we have iphones too :)
2019-08-04T00:37:54 < kakimir> can anything be derived out of percentage of iphones?
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2019-08-04T01:27:13 < Cracki> the fraction of iphones per iphone?
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2019-08-04T01:42:12 < kakimir> percentage of population having a "mobile phone" having one made by apple
2019-08-04T01:42:53 < salcedo> got rid of mine
2019-08-04T01:43:28 < salcedo> realized that it IS possible to exist in the world without a phone
2019-08-04T01:43:39 < kakimir> what
2019-08-04T01:43:45 < kakimir> this is new shit
2019-08-04T01:43:59 < salcedo> haven't had a smartphone for months
2019-08-04T01:44:20 < salcedo> switched to data only wireless service
2019-08-04T01:44:22 < karlp> you _can_ do many things, just do they improve your quality of life, and by what measure
2019-08-04T01:44:25 < kakimir> shiet boi
2019-08-04T01:44:41 < salcedo> karlp: improvement to quality of life is subjective
2019-08-04T01:44:42 < karlp> dont have a smartohone, still has irc
2019-08-04T01:44:58 < salcedo> for me, having a smartphone was a detriment. so i purged it.
2019-08-04T01:44:58 < karlp> did you fucking read the rest of my sentence?
2019-08-04T01:45:24 < karlp> as they say in finladn, shiet boi
2019-08-04T01:45:24 < salcedo> which one?
2019-08-04T01:45:45 < salcedo> wtf is finladn. slang for finnish bin laden
2019-08-04T01:47:17 < salcedo> i'm not going with you
2019-08-04T01:47:27 < salcedo> that's my answer for getting rid of phone.
2019-08-04T01:47:40 < salcedo> any time someone asks. my answer is, "i'm not going with you."
2019-08-04T01:48:05 < salcedo> "where?"
2019-08-04T01:48:47 < salcedo> that answer is paradoxical.
2019-08-04T01:49:01 < salcedo> how do you tell someone where they're going if they won't know they're there once they're there? :)
2019-08-04T01:53:04 < kakimir> yeah salcedo.. my respects for dumping your phone
2019-08-04T01:53:46 < salcedo> not urging anyone else to. did it for my own reasons.
2019-08-04T01:54:01 < salcedo> got sick of paying for 90% useless communication.
2019-08-04T01:54:25 < salcedo> *actionable useless communication, rather.
2019-08-04T01:54:29 < salcedo> IRC is obviously 90% useless :)
2019-08-04T01:54:33 < kakimir> in modern standards dumping your phone is like the craziest thing
2019-08-04T01:55:00 < kakimir> got to respect that
2019-08-04T01:55:08 < salcedo> but getting phone calls and sms that are "urgent" to do things that don't matter.
2019-08-04T01:55:19 < salcedo> being pulled in 50 different directions every day.
2019-08-04T01:55:25 < kakimir> yes
2019-08-04T01:55:45 < salcedo> got fed up with it. needed to remove it and try to get my focus back.
2019-08-04T01:57:55 < kakimir> at some point I felt like phone calls thru my phone were about 90-100% wanting things from me.. like commands almost
2019-08-04T01:59:18 < salcedo> yep. for me it was "hey i need this done because i'm too busy on facebook and i have no time to perform my own basic life functions anymore."
2019-08-04T01:59:18 < kakimir> and I didn't have any oblications to do anything for anyone
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2019-08-04T02:00:17 < salcedo> and my mental answer was always "i'm trying to work my minwage devops, read things, be an idiot on IRC, etc. i have a life too." but not assertive enough to say it.
2019-08-04T02:01:12 < kakimir> I don't mean to judge.. but I think getting rid of your phone didn't fix the issue
2019-08-04T02:05:11 < kakimir> shiet boi
2019-08-04T02:06:38 < kakimir> did you try passive agressive not answering the calls before getting rid of the phone?
2019-08-04T02:07:08 < salcedo> lol yea
2019-08-04T02:07:31 < salcedo> it didn't _completely_ fix the issue.
2019-08-04T02:07:46 < salcedo> there are some small things i am noticing that i can attribute to it helping.
2019-08-04T02:08:25 < salcedo> i have a daily schedule again.
2019-08-04T02:20:54 < Cracki> someone needs to breed humans with three arms. they'd be unbeatable at soldering loose stuff.
2019-08-04T02:21:45 < kakimir> use your mouth
2019-08-04T02:22:58 < Cracki> but then I'll burn my nose
2019-08-04T02:23:05 < salcedo> why breed humans with three arms when it's much faster to simply attach 6 more arms and neuralink.
2019-08-04T02:23:32 < Cracki> neuralink plus a few cheap robotic manipulators would indeed solve my problem
2019-08-04T02:23:38 < salcedo> soon LCSC's factory will be full of transhumanized sweatshop laborers that look like Shiva.
2019-08-04T02:24:10 < Cracki> heard pair programming? pair soldering, the NEW thing!
2019-08-04T02:25:06 < Cracki> classifieds: basement dweller looking for basement dwellette to hold his soldering iron
2019-08-04T02:25:07 < specing> extreme soldering
2019-08-04T02:26:52 < kakimir> Cracki: use your mouth for tools
2019-08-04T02:27:13 < Cracki> could be precise enough for the solder
2019-08-04T02:27:14 < kakimir> personally I use it for solder dispenser
2019-08-04T02:27:25 < Cracki> I even got leadfree stuff but I'm not trusting the flux
2019-08-04T02:27:42 < kakimir> leadfree sucks
2019-08-04T02:27:45 < Cracki> aye
2019-08-04T02:28:07 < Cracki> I only used it because it was a lot of joints I'm not gonna rework every day
2019-08-04T02:28:52 < Cracki> ordering a solder sucker was a good idea. work just isn't fun without proper (chinesium) tools
2019-08-04T02:29:02 < specing> When is the next ali sale going to be?
2019-08-04T02:29:09 < specing> I'm sick of their pricing warfare
2019-08-04T02:29:26 < specing> some item is 49% off and still 20% more expensive than the last time I bought it
2019-08-04T02:29:26 < Cracki> no clue, I look for shit and if it's more expensive than last time, I put it on hold
2019-08-04T02:29:33 < kakimir> electric solder sucker sucks
2019-08-04T02:29:39 < Cracki> electric?
2019-08-04T02:29:42 < kakimir> it sucks so well
2019-08-04T02:29:45 < Cracki> I only know the springy manual kind
2019-08-04T02:29:56 < kakimir> are you living under a rock?
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2019-08-04T02:30:04 < Cracki> is electric like a vacuum cleaner?
2019-08-04T02:30:20 < Cracki> I am living, but not doing this for a living
2019-08-04T02:30:51 < kakimir> it's like soldering iron combined with vacuum cleaner
2019-08-04T02:30:52 < kakimir> yes
2019-08-04T02:31:58 < Cracki> ic
2019-08-04T02:32:37 < Cracki>  very pr0
2019-08-04T02:33:03 < kakimir> not actually pro gear
2019-08-04T02:33:10 < kakimir> sub 100 price
2019-08-04T02:34:01 < salcedo> Introducing the LCSC Worker Model 8. These modified humans perform pick & place, paste, soldering, assembly, quality inspection, packaging, and shipping. All at scale! Take a virtual tour of our facility to see 10,000 Model 8s producing your chinesium at ludacrous speed!
2019-08-04T02:34:52 < Cracki> 100 bucks? eh the mechanical one cost 1 buck shipped
2019-08-04T02:35:01 < Laurenceb> still better than uni where I work
2019-08-04T02:35:05 < Cracki> I'm not spending 100 bucks for something I'm operating half an hour per month
2019-08-04T02:35:15 < kakimir> yeah
2019-08-04T02:35:15 < Laurenceb> retarded grad students breaking the equipment
2019-08-04T02:35:23 < Laurenceb> they dont even know how a hot air tool works
2019-08-04T02:35:24 < Cracki> break grad students' legs
2019-08-04T02:35:30 < kakimir> school stuff is for breaking
2019-08-04T02:35:47 < kakimir> sometimes stealing
2019-08-04T02:35:48 < Cracki> it's a workshop, workshops have rules and mandatory instruction
2019-08-04T02:35:49 < Laurenceb> someone burnt through a piece of conduit on the wall
2019-08-04T02:36:13 < Laurenceb> they always turn it up to 350C and max airflow
2019-08-04T02:36:20 < salcedo> my college labs didn't have rules.
2019-08-04T02:36:33 < Cracki> the only reason so many people are allowed to fuck with computers is that they can't break them as easily as physical tools
2019-08-04T02:36:50 < Cracki> max airflow so everything blows away
2019-08-04T02:36:55 < Cracki> 350 because crispy
2019-08-04T02:37:15 < Laurenceb> last time I was there nobody was able to tell me melting points of solders and typical plastics O_o
2019-08-04T02:37:18 < Cracki> it's a combined leaf blower and torch
2019-08-04T02:37:24 < Cracki> hahah
2019-08-04T02:37:36 < Laurenceb> just 350C everything until its a molten glob
2019-08-04T02:38:03 < Cracki> yesterday I learned: copper wire expands and contracts when you solder it
2019-08-04T02:38:17 < sync> Laurenceb: how do you expect them to know?
2019-08-04T02:38:17 < kakimir> correction: everything does
2019-08-04T02:38:25 < Cracki> so next time I'm soldering a strip of "neopixels" the copper wire gets a bend every step
2019-08-04T02:38:37 < Laurenceb> sync: they are supposed to be grad students
2019-08-04T02:38:39 < Cracki> *noticeably*
2019-08-04T02:38:56 < sync> yeah, but is soldering part of their curriculum?
2019-08-04T02:39:02 < Laurenceb> but they spend most of their time on facebook and never do any work
2019-08-04T02:39:08 < Cracki> at a distance of 30 mm, the wire expanded enough so it had to bend half a centimeter off center
2019-08-04T02:39:21 < Cracki> electrical engineers?
2019-08-04T02:39:21 < Laurenceb> the chinese ones are always asleep and the muslims spend their time praying to allah
2019-08-04T02:39:23 < Laurenceb> yes
2019-08-04T02:39:25 < Cracki> haha
2019-08-04T02:39:47 < Laurenceb> there were whole cupboard for prayer mat storage
2019-08-04T02:39:47 < Cracki> scatter some protein powder (pork) maybe
2019-08-04T02:40:02 < Laurenceb> oh and making protein shakes 
2019-08-04T02:40:09 < Laurenceb> and whey drinks
2019-08-04T02:40:53 < Laurenceb> they were also trying to make cannabis growlamps but couldnt solder a power cable...
2019-08-04T02:41:13 < Cracki> my EE friends tell me to NOT solder high voltage power cables
2019-08-04T02:41:19 < Cracki> but crimp and screw them
2019-08-04T02:41:29 < Laurenceb> yeah
2019-08-04T02:41:34 < sync> idk, the postdocs here were not able to solder or tune a PID loop
2019-08-04T02:41:52 < Cracki> define 'tune"
2019-08-04T02:41:58 < mawk> find coeffs
2019-08-04T02:42:07 < Cracki> fuck with the parameters until it behaves, I can do that
2019-08-04T02:42:22 < Laurenceb> the uni workshop just depresses me so I rarely visit
2019-08-04T02:42:23 < Cracki> whack it (apply step input), i can do that
2019-08-04T02:42:37 < Laurenceb> problem is no proper member of uni staff has visited since the 1970s
2019-08-04T02:42:48 < Cracki> tragedy of the commons
2019-08-04T02:43:05 < Cracki> actually, no, just people not giving a fuck, that's sad enough
2019-08-04T02:44:06 < Laurenceb> administration of the whole building seems to be left to grad students and the janitor
2019-08-04T02:44:14 < Cracki> last time I was at the local fablab (room of a computer science chair), the location of the fire extinguisher wasn't immediately obvious, and I didn't see where they keep their broom and stuff
2019-08-04T02:45:13 < Cracki> work tops were a little cruddy, floor obviously was, and the "laser cutter optics cleaning" log was last touched 8 months ago
2019-08-04T02:45:22 < kakimir> why not solder high voltage shiet?
2019-08-04T02:45:31 < Laurenceb> I might have to visit this building next week, hopefully they didnt touch my boxes of kit
2019-08-04T02:45:44 < Cracki> something about solder getting creepy, the joint disassembling, and fire hazard
2019-08-04T02:45:56 < Laurenceb> then again there are boxes of kit staked 3m high, 4 m wide and 5m deep, back is from the 1950s
2019-08-04T02:45:57 < kakimir> crimping is ofc superior method of electrical connections
2019-08-04T02:46:29 < kakimir> but the solder doesn't really know what voltage it's at
2019-08-04T02:46:46 < Laurenceb> prayer mats and cannabis kit is at the front so I shoved my kit further back...
2019-08-04T02:47:06 < kakimir> maybe it's just about solder being inferior method of electrical connections
2019-08-04T02:47:09 < Laurenceb> there is a full size oil drum filled with whey for some reason...
2019-08-04T02:47:18 < Cracki> german electrical code says not to solder high voltage, I'm looking at the reasoning
2019-08-04T02:47:27 < kakimir> Laurenceb: beer making
2019-08-04T02:47:40 < Cracki> it's not inferior, but the joint comes apart at "low" temperatures
2019-08-04T02:47:46 < Cracki> shit can't just start glowing
2019-08-04T02:47:53 < kakimir> glowing?
2019-08-04T02:47:57 < Laurenceb> kakimir: nope they are all muslim
2019-08-04T02:48:00 < Cracki> yes, have you seen the red indicator nut?
2019-08-04T02:48:09 < Laurenceb> I think it is for meme protein shakes
2019-08-04T02:48:15 < Cracki> http://i.imgur.com/gOzKvNk.png
2019-08-04T02:48:25 < Cracki> http://i.imgur.com/WxqQIEB.jpg
2019-08-04T02:48:28 < kakimir> arcing and flying molten conductor is what I would be more woried about
2019-08-04T02:48:58 < kakimir> *worried
2019-08-04T02:48:58 < Cracki> if that were a solder joint, shit would come loose
2019-08-04T02:49:05 < Cracki> indeed that must be the reason
2019-08-04T02:49:30 < Laurenceb> there is a weird RooshV tier Iranian guy who thinks he can become a bazillionare with protien shakes
2019-08-04T02:49:35 < kakimir> Laurenceb: muslims like beer
2019-08-04T02:49:36 < Laurenceb> he browses /r/redpill
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2019-08-04T02:49:47 < Cracki> does he practice personal hygiene?
2019-08-04T02:49:52 < Laurenceb> barely
2019-08-04T02:50:16 < Cracki> in irani russia, guy sits on YOU!
2019-08-04T02:50:27 < Cracki> *facesits
2019-08-04T02:50:31 < Laurenceb> he talks about "game" and how to chat up ladies...
2019-08-04T02:50:32 < Cracki> not surprising
2019-08-04T02:50:34 < Cracki> haha
2019-08-04T02:50:40 < Cracki> he has no luck, I'm sure?
2019-08-04T02:50:59 < Laurenceb> of course not, he is confirmed incel
2019-08-04T02:51:30 < Laurenceb> in fact I think I saw him on /r/incel before it got b&
2019-08-04T02:52:02 < Cracki> kek
2019-08-04T02:52:05 < Laurenceb> his PhD is on energy efficient cannabis growlamps
2019-08-04T02:52:39 < Cracki> I get the impression, even locally, that PhDs are a joke
2019-08-04T02:52:45 < Laurenceb> then there is a Saudi guy who is a male prostitute, he has a page on adultwork
2019-08-04T02:53:08 < Cracki> EE dude I'm working with, he's gonna do his dissertation on a surgery robot
2019-08-04T02:53:34 < Laurenceb> once he came up behind me and started giving me a shoulder massage, then wanted me to spell/grammar check his profile page
2019-08-04T02:53:42 < Cracki> SAUDI male prostitute? what's his rate, I gotta try that!
2019-08-04T02:53:58 < Cracki> ooh yes back rubs
2019-08-04T02:53:58 < Laurenceb> O_o
2019-08-04T02:54:06 < Laurenceb> he specialises in ladies over 50
2019-08-04T02:54:11 < Cracki> yuck
2019-08-04T02:54:26 < Laurenceb> lmao
2019-08-04T02:54:39 < Cracki> too kinky for me
2019-08-04T02:56:01 < Laurenceb> the only thing the janitor has ever done is remove the cnc mill I found because of "health and safety"
2019-08-04T02:56:40 < kakimir> sold it in ebay
2019-08-04T02:56:58 < kakimir> on*
2019-08-04T02:57:06 < Laurenceb> probably got sent to another department
2019-08-04T02:57:21 < Laurenceb> but yeah, UK unis are a joke
2019-08-04T02:57:48 < Laurenceb> its just a social club for weirdo middle east and chinese students
2019-08-04T02:58:07 < Laurenceb>  "pls send us your incels"
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2019-08-04T02:58:17 < Cracki> all of the UK is that, not just unis
2019-08-04T02:58:26 < Cracki> can you pls get your nation in order
2019-08-04T02:58:32 < Laurenceb> kek
2019-08-04T02:58:49 < Cracki> maybe get back all that gold you lost to murican bankers in WW1
2019-08-04T02:59:31 < Laurenceb> I think I will quit my uni jerb when my contract expires
2019-08-04T02:59:39 < Laurenceb> problem is nobody knows when that is....
2019-08-04T02:59:52 < Cracki> when the money stops
2019-08-04T02:59:56 < Laurenceb> yeah lol
2019-08-04T03:00:07 < Cracki> accounting doesn't get the signal, they keep paying
2019-08-04T03:00:21 < Cracki> so you shouldn't quit as such, just tell them you got everything handled
2019-08-04T03:00:29 < Cracki> then leave, and keep getting money
2019-08-04T03:00:36 < Laurenceb> originally November, but then everything was a month late, but then everything was shifted by another 3 months, then at the beginning of this year project babbyshake was syspended
2019-08-04T03:00:58 < Laurenceb> so I'm being paid because I have to be because I have a contract
2019-08-04T03:01:42 < Laurenceb> if the babbyshake project is unsuspended by november I have however much money is left to earn
2019-08-04T03:02:20 < Laurenceb> the funding agency suspended the project due to serious management failures
2019-08-04T03:02:22 < Laurenceb> my sides
2019-08-04T03:03:28 < Cracki> kek
2019-08-04T03:05:25 < Laurenceb> surely another database will solve the problem
2019-08-04T03:06:18 < Laurenceb> nobody has accessed the database other than me lol
2019-08-04T03:06:30 < Laurenceb> its literally write only memory
2019-08-04T03:06:30 < Cracki> "I will replace your management with a small shell script... that does database functions"
2019-08-04T03:07:24 < Cracki> maybe because you're the only one who can make pretty graphs out of it?
2019-08-04T03:07:31 < Laurenceb> the data analysis "team" only wanted matlab .mat files and thats all they have used
2019-08-04T03:09:09 < Cracki> so you get to dump the database to mat files regularly?
2019-08-04T03:09:26 < Laurenceb> yeah I have a shell script to do that
2019-08-04T03:09:53 < Cracki> honestly, it sounds like the database is overkill. whatever software could just shit out timestamped mat files instead
2019-08-04T03:10:25 < Cracki> or hdf5, or whatever is good for attached metadata
2019-08-04T03:10:37 < Laurenceb> yeah I use hdf5 and save as .mat
2019-08-04T03:11:10 < Laurenceb> that way only the data from a specific sensor can be loaded at a time
2019-08-04T03:11:29 < Laurenceb> so you dont need the 64GB ram server I use to make the files
2019-08-04T03:13:01 < Cracki> uh, muxing and demuxing ordinary media files doesn't take that much ram
2019-08-04T03:14:03 < Laurenceb> that doesnt involve matlab :P
2019-08-04T03:14:32 < Cracki> I take it you can write hdf5 files, and matlab has hdf5 import, so fuck them and their mat files
2019-08-04T03:14:41 < Cracki> just a file per channel, or whatever
2019-08-04T03:15:39 < Cracki> does hdf5 support interleaving or any kind of chunked storage of a stream/blob?
2019-08-04T03:17:28 < Laurenceb> not when you want to use compression and create it with matlab aiui
2019-08-04T03:18:44 < Cracki> hdf5 speak knows "datasets" (multidim array + metadata) and "groups" (folders/directories)
2019-08-04T03:18:58 < Cracki> so I guess what I think of isn't supported
2019-08-04T03:19:35 < Cracki> unless it can store a dataset that is growing
2019-08-04T03:20:23 < Cracki> oh, it knows "chunked" storage
2019-08-04T03:20:33 < Cracki> so you could dump all sensor channels into a single hdf5 file
2019-08-04T03:20:41 < Laurenceb> yeah I tried that but couldnt compress the file at the same time in matlab
2019-08-04T03:21:07 < Laurenceb> if I use compression I can get it down to ~1GB/hour even with over a thousand channels of data from the instrumented wambulance
2019-08-04T03:21:08 < Cracki> fuck matlab, do you even use matlab for storing the data initially? that sounded like you use some Qt program
2019-08-04T03:21:29 < Cracki> matlab api maybe...
2019-08-04T03:21:30 < Laurenceb> yeah I run a Qt application to gather the data and store as .rf64
2019-08-04T03:21:36 < Cracki> rf64?
2019-08-04T03:21:38 < Cracki> riff?
2019-08-04T03:21:49 < Laurenceb> then that file is moved to the server and processed overnight
2019-08-04T03:21:50 < Laurenceb> yeah
2019-08-04T03:21:56 < Cracki> oy vey
2019-08-04T03:22:24 < Cracki> does rf64 support channels with differing sample rates? or do you have a single sample rate for everything?
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2019-08-04T03:24:48 < Laurenceb> single sample rate for everything, so some channels are interleaved
2019-08-04T03:25:05 < Cracki> excellent
2019-08-04T03:25:25 < Laurenceb> everything is 2ksps, so 48ksps audio channels are spread across 24 channels, and raw gps data is serially in a single channel etc
2019-08-04T03:26:10 < Cracki> thanks for this discussion. my advisor might be interested in a way to dump away the data produced in that surgery robot. he's planning 1 khz loop and a bunch of data
2019-08-04T03:26:32 < Laurenceb> it ends up being about 4GB/hour on the heavily instrumented wambulance, enough to send over lan to the server
2019-08-04T03:26:40 < Cracki> they might have just gone with json but that's not a bright idea for these amounts of data
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2019-08-04T03:27:49 < Cracki> 1 khz here, a few pose matrices (f32 4x4) for fiduciaries, some scalars for control loop and whatnot
2019-08-04T03:28:42 < Cracki> it's not gonna run for an hour like an ambulance, much shorter
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2019-08-04T04:52:53 < bitmask> so I wanna order these boards but I'm not sure I have it set up right
2019-08-04T04:53:33 < bitmask> I put mounting holes by putting pads and the hole is this teal color but that doesnt correspond to any layer, do board cutouts need to be that color?
2019-08-04T04:55:09 < bitmask> it seems fine how it is, I set the board shape and cutouts, and it shows fine in the sites (jlcpcb) gerber viewer but on the main preview it shows it as a soldermask
2019-08-04T05:02:20 < salcedo> i think jlcpcb shows the drilled holes in one of the previews
2019-08-04T05:17:32 < rajkosto> bitmask, load your gerber stack in zofs pcb viewer auto
2019-08-04T05:17:39 < rajkosto> if it looks fine there its fine
2019-08-04T05:17:51 < bitmask> k
2019-08-04T05:17:53 < bitmask> thx
2019-08-04T05:17:59 < rajkosto> it should have your board looking exactly like you designed it (all things properly milled out, all holes there)
2019-08-04T05:18:13 < rajkosto> and you can explode the layers etc
2019-08-04T05:23:53 < salcedo> but then you get the board
2019-08-04T05:24:26 < salcedo> and you see Y82-CH1N3S1UM1337-ABCDEFGH on the silkscreen.
2019-08-04T05:25:38 < rajkosto> its just some numbers
2019-08-04T05:25:45 < rajkosto> 082-1239131239-095
2019-08-04T05:25:56 < rajkosto> they try and place it under big tqdps etc
2019-08-04T05:27:23 < salcedo> you noticed it too?
2019-08-04T05:27:44 < salcedo> i wonder if it's an automated thing or if they have someone manually find an out of the way spot to put it
2019-08-04T05:28:31 < jadew> they do not place it anywhere nice
2019-08-04T05:28:52 < bitmask> I dont remember seeing anything on the only other boards Ive done but I wouldnt be surprised
2019-08-04T05:28:53 < jadew> I just checked my boards, forgot to add that jlcjlcjlcjlc shit and they placed it in the worst possible spot
2019-08-04T05:29:24 < jadew> they had the entire FRONT of the board with a footprint for a freaking shield, so they could have put it there
2019-08-04T05:29:25 < salcedo> all the boards i've done - they've put it in spots that seem to indicate a human is putting some thought into it
2019-08-04T05:29:41 < jadew> instead they used the side with the decorative silkscreen shit
2019-08-04T05:29:51 < salcedo> maybe whoever did your board was like "oh! this is jadew's board. SCREW THEM!!"
2019-08-04T05:30:49 < salcedo> maybe there is some kind of designator you can put in your design file to instruct them to put that gibberish there.
2019-08-04T05:31:13 < bitmask> salcedo  and rajkosto you are the same color purple, its confusing
2019-08-04T05:31:51 < rajkosto> how can you see colors
2019-08-04T05:31:53 < salcedo> bitmask: to be fair, you and rajkosto are the same color purple in my weechat, so we're even.
2019-08-04T05:32:09 < bitmask> :P
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2019-08-04T05:39:52 < salcedo> Children Of The Bong - Polyphase
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2019-08-04T06:08:02 < bitmask> order submitted
2019-08-04T06:08:04 < bitmask> wish me luck
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2019-08-04T12:51:05 < Steffanx> Wlcm jly 
2019-08-04T12:51:17 < jly> hi there
2019-08-04T12:51:35 < Steffanx> What brings you here?
2019-08-04T12:53:00 < jly> I saw madonna
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2019-08-04T13:03:01 < Steffanx> And kylie minogue?
2019-08-04T13:06:42 < jly> nah
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2019-08-04T14:12:51 < antto> kylie sings bett0r
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2019-08-04T21:43:08 < Cracki> what a lazy sunday
2019-08-04T22:24:06 < Steffanx> 🥓
2019-08-04T22:28:13 < benishor> I can't seem to get LTDC_IRQHandler to trigger
2019-08-04T22:28:17 < benishor> I'm pulling my hair out
2019-08-04T22:28:53 < zyp> did you remember to turn it on both in NVIC and the peripheral?
2019-08-04T22:29:58 < benishor> I think so
2019-08-04T22:30:34 < benishor> thing is I created an entire new project from scratch using cubemx and there I managed to get it firing
2019-08-04T22:30:50 < benishor> but on the mbed based project I have, I couldn't by me life
2019-08-04T22:30:57 < benishor> and I just don't understand why
2019-08-04T22:31:16 < zyp> run it with the debugger, poll the status register and check if the flags you're expecting to trigger the interrupt is getting set
2019-08-04T22:32:23 < zyp> an interrupt handler that doesn't run is either because it's not properly enabled or because the event to trigger it doesn't occur, you'll probably want to start by figuring out which
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2019-08-04T22:35:17 < benishor> yeah, I was trying to wrap my head around it
2019-08-04T22:35:32 < benishor> I mean I see the reference to the handler in the startup .s file
2019-08-04T22:35:39 < benishor> and the __weak default implementation
2019-08-04T22:35:51 < benishor> so it *ought* to be available
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2019-08-04T23:14:03 < jadew> ;.I need something to seal ESD safe bags with
2019-08-04T23:14:10 < jadew> any recommendations?
2019-08-04T23:15:06 < Steffanx> Random bag sealer? Tell sell has it :P
2019-08-04T23:16:48 < BrainDamage> bag sealers are just a hot wire with a temp resistant tape on top, not even temp control, there's not much about them
2019-08-04T23:17:06 < Steffanx> Or a food vacuum machine with the vacuum part disabled? Even lidl (et all) sell em for cheapish
2019-08-04T23:17:16 < Steffanx> Does Romania have a Lidl?
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2019-08-04T23:18:16 < jadew> Steffanx, we have lidl yeah
2019-08-04T23:18:23 < jadew> BrainDamage, so it shouldn't matter much which one I choose?
2019-08-04T23:18:30 < BrainDamage> nope
2019-08-04T23:18:39 < jadew> that's good
2019-08-04T23:18:42 < BrainDamage> just go for a large one, and comfortable handle
2019-08-04T23:20:26 < Steffanx> Lidl-shop.ro?
2019-08-04T23:20:55 < jadew> lidl.ro
2019-08-04T23:22:42 < jadew> BrainDamage, why a large one?
2019-08-04T23:23:27 < jadew> the bags I want to seal are max 15 cm long, should I get a 20 cm or a 40 cm one?
2019-08-04T23:23:27 < BrainDamage> because it's more comfortable to use and because doing multiple seals is very awkward
2019-08-04T23:23:34 < BrainDamage> 20 is fine
2019-08-04T23:23:46 < jadew> got it, thanks
2019-08-04T23:25:16 < jadew> looks like 30 cm is also an option
2019-08-04T23:25:51 < BrainDamage> the two main styles are https://www.packagingcenterusa.com/images/machines/handsealerwithoutcutter.jpg and https://1bd2w23p0h3e9efi2o2oiwuf-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/6-inch-hand-held-bag-sealer.jpg
2019-08-04T23:26:19 < BrainDamage> you can some have a sliding cutter to trim excess plastic
2019-08-04T23:26:27 < BrainDamage> +get
2019-08-04T23:26:33 < jadew> oh, that would be useful
2019-08-04T23:26:44 < BrainDamage> https://images.uline.com/is/image/content/dam/images/HD/HD2500/HD10_2254_txt_USEng.jpg?$UtilityRHD$&iccEmbed=1&icc=AdobeRGB
2019-08-04T23:26:57 < jadew> that's neat
2019-08-04T23:27:00 < jadew> I want one of those
2019-08-04T23:27:05 < jadew> thanks
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2019-08-04T23:39:00 < mrus> hey there! I have a question regarding a Nucleo L476RG board I'm playing around with. I'm measuring the current on the Arduino header pins (e.g. A2) and get something around 1.8 to 2V. That's what's going through for other pins as well. Shouldn't those be either at a very low voltage (around 0) or at roughly 3.3V?
2019-08-04T23:39:40 < Cracki> you sure you're measuring current?
2019-08-04T23:39:45 < qyx> are you saying you are measirugin current?
2019-08-04T23:39:53 < qyx> *measuring
2019-08-04T23:40:02 < Cracki> maybe he is, and he's getting 1.8 to 2 amps
2019-08-04T23:40:07 < Cracki> (unlikely :P)
2019-08-04T23:40:35 < mrus> heh :) I'm quite sure, it says V on the display and I did the same measure on an arduino board and got 5V and 0V respectively.
2019-08-04T23:40:48 < qyx> then you are not very sure
2019-08-04T23:40:54 < qyx> current != voltage
2019-08-04T23:41:07 < mrus> sorry, mea culpa.
2019-08-04T23:41:09 < Cracki> and why would you measure an ANALOG INPUT for any voltage it OUTPUTS?
2019-08-04T23:41:32 < qyx> if the pin is configured as analog input, it is floating
2019-08-04T23:41:51 < Cracki> if it's unconfigured, it's probably floating too
2019-08-04T23:42:14 < qyx> the mcu is not driving it to any specific voltage
2019-08-04T23:42:36 < mrus> I just tried a couple of pins. I'm actually trying to get the board working as an SPI master... and from what I understand, CN8 A2 is the Slave Select pin, meaning that it should be usually high (3.3V) and when selected low (~0V)
2019-08-04T23:42:49 < rajkosto> only if you configure it as so
2019-08-04T23:43:19 < mrus> that's what the Zephyr firmware I'm using on it is saying it does
2019-08-04T23:43:23 < Cracki> the wat
2019-08-04T23:43:24 < rajkosto> also when doing SPI master its usually easier to just set your SS/CS pin to GPIO and toggle it manually rather than letting the SPI core do it
2019-08-04T23:43:39 < qyx> zephyr /o\
2019-08-04T23:43:46 < Cracki> how about you start with an empty sketch and do a single thing at a time
2019-08-04T23:44:57 < Cracki> lol the bs https://www.zephyrproject.org/what-is-zephyr/
2019-08-04T23:45:13 < mrus> well, I did that on an Arduino first to make sure the setup works in general and the slave responds, now I tried to port it to Zephyr..
2019-08-04T23:47:18 < mrus> so you're basically saying that my Zephyr config is probably not working the way I thought it would be, hence the pins are in sort of a floating state, right?
2019-08-04T23:47:48 < qyx> it may be the case
2019-08-04T23:48:02 < qyx> personally I have never seen anyone using zephyr here
2019-08-04T23:48:14 < qyx> I only know the name
2019-08-04T23:48:44 < mrus> yeah, I feel like I'm one of the few insane people trying to, honestly speaking. :/
2019-08-04T23:51:05 < mrus> not a fan of FreeRTOS though, and there aren't a lot more popular alternatives that supports the boards I'm working with.
2019-08-04T23:52:02 < qyx> first of all, is rtos required?
2019-08-04T23:52:15 < qyx> if yes, you have chibios, freertos, nuttx, and a couple of others
2019-08-04T23:52:20 < qyx> all support stm32
2019-08-04T23:53:12 < mrus> ideally I need something that works on stm32 and riscv likewise, with little to no modifications of the code.
2019-08-04T23:54:08 < qyx> even the most hally HALs will not be enough prbably
2019-08-04T23:55:58 < mrus> well, on Zephyr the abstraction seems like it's doing most of the heavy lifting, hence the decision to try that.. but yeah, could be that in the end it won't work out that way.
--- Day changed Mon Aug 05 2019
2019-08-05T00:01:13 < Cracki> if you need that level of flexibility, don't expect it to be efficient
2019-08-05T00:01:14 < benishor> I finally got it
2019-08-05T00:01:16 < benishor> fucking crap
2019-08-05T00:01:59 < mrus> so just to make sure: There is no special jumper config that's required to enable the arduino pins on the L467RG, is it?
2019-08-05T00:02:05 < benishor> https://pastebin.com/pNdiyYjk
2019-08-05T00:02:13 < benishor> holy shit that was horrible
2019-08-05T00:02:24 < benishor> only in mbed context
2019-08-05T00:02:26 < mrus> Cracki: probably true, I guess I'll need to find out :)
2019-08-05T00:04:40 < Cracki> benishor, so it was enabled before?
2019-08-05T00:04:52 < Cracki> who enabled it?
2019-08-05T00:06:54 < benishor> Cracki: I don't know what mbed does 
2019-08-05T00:07:56 < Cracki> time to check if it blends https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnFP0IU4gpnmcLnVzDLUtfw
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2019-08-05T00:19:53 < Cracki> mashed magnet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax2BOCoVDJk
2019-08-05T00:25:29 < mrus> wrote a little sketch and made A4 alternate between LOW and HIGH - works. Can measure 0 and 3.3V now. So apparently it really is the Zephyre config I'm using that doesn't work right. This project lacks of good documentation unfortunately. :(
2019-08-05T00:25:53 < mrus> thanks for the help! :)
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2019-08-05T01:03:03 < rajkosto> my optocoupler falstad simuoltion was ok but on a pcb it dont work :(
2019-08-05T01:10:08 < Steffanx> awh
2019-08-05T01:15:41 < rajkosto> so hmm dont even know what to do anymore
2019-08-05T01:16:00 < rajkosto> i need to invert an open drain signal that has no pull up without adding a pull up
2019-08-05T01:16:03 < rajkosto> optocoupler would have been ideal
2019-08-05T01:19:15 < Cracki> lol
2019-08-05T01:19:36 < Cracki> why can't you add a pullup
2019-08-05T01:19:44 < rajkosto> cuz then it disturbs the LEDs that are being driven
2019-08-05T01:19:52 < Cracki> give whole picture
2019-08-05T01:20:13 < Cracki> we aren't playing battleships here
2019-08-05T01:20:30 < rajkosto> need to readout PWM RGB LED driver values without disturbing driven strip
2019-08-05T01:20:49 < rajkosto> adding pullup makes the strip glow even if its not driven at all
2019-08-05T01:23:23 < Cracki> so you need to measure the voltage on the rgb lines?
2019-08-05T01:23:34 < Cracki> or rather, detect if it's high or not
2019-08-05T01:23:37 < rajkosto> but even if theres no strip connected
2019-08-05T01:23:41 < Cracki> you want a voltage divider
2019-08-05T01:23:43 < rajkosto> and if there is one, dont disturb it.
2019-08-05T01:23:48 < rajkosto> nothing to divide if theres no strip
2019-08-05T01:23:56 < Cracki> how much "not" disturbing?
2019-08-05T01:24:03 < rajkosto> not pulling it up to 3.3v 
2019-08-05T01:24:20 < rajkosto> i wanted to use optocoupler cuz then it drives it just like the original LEDs are driven
2019-08-05T01:25:07 < Cracki> do a voltage divider to get 12v/3.3v or whatever, AND pullup on the pin itself?
2019-08-05T01:25:13 < rajkosto> cant pullup the pins
2019-08-05T01:25:20 < rajkosto> cuz then they never float
2019-08-05T01:25:24 < Cracki> wat
2019-08-05T01:25:38 < Cracki> you realize "pull up" is a matter of degrees?
2019-08-05T01:25:53 < Cracki> nothing is gonna feel remotely driven from 10-100k of pullup
2019-08-05T01:25:59 < rajkosto> even with 100k the strip glows.
2019-08-05T01:26:04 < rajkosto> very faintly but still
2019-08-05T01:26:16 < Cracki> okeh
2019-08-05T01:26:33 < rajkosto> wait i can pullup to 12V
2019-08-05T01:27:00 < rajkosto> but i'd rather not
2019-08-05T01:27:11 < Cracki> that's effectively giving the driver a "dummy strip"
2019-08-05T01:27:17 < Cracki> do it
2019-08-05T01:27:35 < Cracki> maybe get a diode involved
2019-08-05T01:27:55 < Cracki> the problem with a pullup to 3.3v is that it's still lower than the 12v on the other side of those leds
2019-08-05T01:28:04 < Cracki> which is why it's practically a pull down
2019-08-05T01:28:09 < rajkosto> yes, pulling up to the original voltage wouldnt change anything
2019-08-05T01:28:16 < Cracki> why not
2019-08-05T01:28:25 < rajkosto> i mean "disturb"
2019-08-05T01:28:46 < rajkosto> it will make the LED turn off time a bit longer
2019-08-05T01:29:02 < Cracki> can you quantify that
2019-08-05T01:29:21 < rajkosto> the time it takes to rise to 12v from 0v
2019-08-05T01:29:25 < rajkosto> LEDs will be partially on
2019-08-05T01:29:36 < rajkosto> with no pullup the connection is cut instantly
2019-08-05T01:33:33 < Cracki> pnp transistor, emitter to 12v, base to r/g/b line, collector to your mcu
2019-08-05T01:34:09 < Cracki> r/g/b line controls transistor
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2019-08-05T01:41:26 < rajkosto> http://tinyurl.com/y4l9x3g4 why is current feeding back into the squarewave
2019-08-05T01:45:36 < Cracki> wat
2019-08-05T01:45:59 < rajkosto> http://tinyurl.com/y5n2zz7g this makes the squarewave open drain as it is, still works
2019-08-05T01:48:30 < kiki_lamb> Anyone know whether the clone ST-Links on e-bay can be made to work with STM32CubeIDE and/or whether they can be safely updated using the official tool?
2019-08-05T01:48:58 < rajkosto> just buy a nucleo board to get a proper stlink
2019-08-05T01:48:58 < rajkosto> but yes
2019-08-05T01:49:22 < rajkosto> you wont get anything more than basic support tho, so no SWO, no UART/MSD
2019-08-05T01:49:24 < kiki_lamb> When I try to upload with one from CubeIDE, it complains that the firmware is out of date and recommends updating it. just not sure if following the official upgrade instructions is gonna be safe or not.
2019-08-05T01:49:33 < rajkosto> you can update
2019-08-05T01:49:45 < kiki_lamb> okay, guess I'll update one of 'em then and see how it goes
2019-08-05T01:50:08 < kiki_lamb> at this point I just wanna try out the IDE a bit and see if I like it, so I can live without the fancy stuff for now.
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2019-08-05T01:53:08 < rajkosto> Cracki, can you easily make a push pull driver with PNP/NPN
2019-08-05T01:56:13 < kiki_lamb> I probably should also grab at least one real nucleo board at some point too, but the array of options is a littler dizzying... I'll have to go through 'em all and figure out which one looks good.
2019-08-05T02:05:26 < rajkosto> so this probably wont explode http://tinyurl.com/yxp89w2d
2019-08-05T02:08:21 < rajkosto> i dont like that it inverts it right back though
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2019-08-05T02:18:19 < Cracki> kiki_lamb, those clones are proper stlinks, except for electrically. firmware can be updated.
2019-08-05T02:18:35 < Cracki> SWO is stilla ctive, but the signal isn't routed on the pcb
2019-08-05T02:18:52 < Cracki> you can solder on a bodgewire and free up a 5v pin on these things
2019-08-05T02:19:39 < Cracki> kiki_lamb, grab a robotdyn f303cc if you like the arduino form factor
2019-08-05T02:20:02 < Cracki> the f303cc has dfu rom bootloader too
2019-08-05T02:20:12 < Laurenceb> >like the arduino form factor
2019-08-05T02:20:17 < Laurenceb> then ur a retard lol
2019-08-05T02:21:20 < rajkosto> lolrence pls
2019-08-05T02:21:25 < Cracki> certainly not the full sized bullshit with 0.04" offset headers
2019-08-05T02:21:42 < Cracki> but I like those strip shaped boards
2019-08-05T02:22:02 < Cracki> fuck the pin headers, just hotglue it on something and solder to the holes
2019-08-05T02:22:11 < rajkosto> Cracki, pls tell how to avoid re-inversion kthx
2019-08-05T02:22:27 < Cracki> very maker much proper
2019-08-05T02:22:30 < kiki_lamb> Hmm, 'robotdyn f303cc' doesn't get many google results. I see an f103c one, but it looks like it's essentially similar to the chinese blue/black pills
2019-08-05T02:22:32 < Cracki> rewat
2019-08-05T02:22:50 < rajkosto> the push/pull driver reinverts the signal again
2019-08-05T02:22:59 < kiki_lamb> the nano-style DIL boards are usually easiest to work with
2019-08-05T02:23:04 < Cracki> my bad, search results want exact part number https://robotdyn.com/stm32f303cct6-256-kb-flash-stm32-arm-cortexr-m4-mini-system-dev-board-3326a9dd-3c19-11e9-910a-901b0ebb3621.html
2019-08-05T02:23:17 < Cracki> that dude has a shop on aliex for your convenience
2019-08-05T02:23:46 < Cracki> russian design, so you can trust it
2019-08-05T02:24:30 < Cracki> even has something crystalline on the underbelly that's probably some 32k/32K
2019-08-05T02:25:15 < Cracki> I left the boot0/1 pins bare. datashit doesn't mention builtin pullup/down resistors, haven't noticed any in the schematic for the board, but it seems to work ok
2019-08-05T02:25:42 < kiki_lamb> Cracki: half the point of getting a legit board woulda been to get a real ST-Link, though, so this board doesn't really do anything there
2019-08-05T02:25:47 < Cracki> ic
2019-08-05T02:25:53 < Cracki> stlink clone is ok
2019-08-05T02:26:09 < Cracki> works with truestudio/cubeide and *everything* basically
2019-08-05T02:26:13 < Cracki> it's a v2 tho, not v2.1
2019-08-05T02:26:20 < Cracki> the 2.1 have mass storage fuckery and whatnot
2019-08-05T02:26:27 < rajkosto> you can make it a v2.1 with uart and storage fuckery if you want
2019-08-05T02:26:29 < rajkosto> needs more soldering for the uart
2019-08-05T02:26:34 < Cracki> v2 is just SWD, SWIM, and the SWO you have to bodge yourself
2019-08-05T02:26:46 < Cracki> and what he said
2019-08-05T02:27:31 < Cracki> the discos/nucleos are nice for their peripherals (got a disco with nice big LCD) but I wouldn't bother just for the stlink
2019-08-05T02:28:00 < rajkosto> for 10$ you get a mcu board and a stlink board tho
2019-08-05T02:28:11 < Cracki> the jumpering to get them separated might be just solder bridges, and the higher end (or newer?) ones don't even mention stlink breakout in their manual anymore
2019-08-05T02:37:28 < salcedo> being able to use my nucleo for stlink on bare boards is huge plus
2019-08-05T02:37:45 < salcedo> can't believe $15 for ridiculous L496ZG
2019-08-05T02:40:14 < Cracki> i wish they'd make it easier to compare parts. I'd wanna compare L496ZG to F303CC
2019-08-05T02:40:42 < Cracki> both M4F, comparable frequency, recently developed, ...
2019-08-05T02:41:31 < Cracki> first obv diff, pin count and package size
2019-08-05T02:52:19 < jadew> I'm bored and don't feel like working
2019-08-05T02:52:21 < jadew> advice?
2019-08-05T02:53:02 < Cracki> wake the wife? :P
2019-08-05T02:53:18 < jadew> nah, I'm good
2019-08-05T02:53:26 < Cracki> anything to declutter, anything to throw away or take out?
2019-08-05T02:53:43 < jadew> that sounds like work
2019-08-05T02:53:59 < Cracki> jogging through the park at night? I hear it's still possible in your part of the world
2019-08-05T02:54:28 < Cracki> or you could watch cubeshit update its files for half an hour
2019-08-05T02:54:35 < Cracki> (like I do)
2019-08-05T02:55:18 < jadew> I would have wanted to see a movie, but there's nothing good on netflix that I haven't seen yet
2019-08-05T02:55:46 < jadew> and I finished watching all the mike tyson fights
2019-08-05T02:56:35 < jadew> spoiler alert: he only had a couple of years of peak performance
2019-08-05T02:57:46 < jadew> he was good afterwards too, but not like he was when he was 20
2019-08-05T03:00:22 < Cracki> hm, the sport is about damage
2019-08-05T03:00:51 < Cracki> so it's about how long he stayed on top compared to others
2019-08-05T03:00:54 < jadew> yeah, but I don't think it was because of the damage he sustained
2019-08-05T03:01:13 < jadew> because he didn't sustain much, he just delivered in his early years
2019-08-05T03:02:03 < jadew> I think he got rich super fast and stopped caring
2019-08-05T03:02:34 < jadew> I didn't study his life, but from what I've read in the youtube comments, by 30 he was broke
2019-08-05T03:02:46 < Cracki> wat
2019-08-05T03:03:00 < jadew> and he was making 10s of millions of dollars per fight before that
2019-08-05T03:03:26 < Cracki> something about burning bright and short
2019-08-05T03:03:33 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-05T03:03:57 < Cracki> fates such as his make me apprehensive about money
2019-08-05T03:04:19 < jadew> yeah, me too
2019-08-05T03:05:19 < Cracki> not the lack of it, I know how that's like, but being cursed with it
2019-08-05T03:05:43 < jadew> I wouldn't call it a curse :)
2019-08-05T03:05:43 < Cracki> otoh, money can solve the problems it brings... mostly
2019-08-05T03:05:56 < Cracki> taxes are a curse
2019-08-05T03:06:01 < jadew> it's just a matter of staying sane
2019-08-05T03:06:05 < Cracki> people fucking you over for it are a curse
2019-08-05T03:06:19 < Cracki> banks being at the front of that line
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2019-08-05T03:11:34 < jadew> if you ever feel bored, here's a playlist with all his pro fights and some of the amateur ones, in order
2019-08-05T03:12:01 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF15B81FACF624991
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2019-08-05T03:16:44 < Cracki> i feel like a plantation owner
2019-08-05T03:19:58 < rajkosto> wtf theres different style 2.54mm headers
2019-08-05T03:20:07 < mawk> round and square ?
2019-08-05T03:20:08 < rajkosto> round female ones cant accept square male ones
2019-08-05T03:20:54 < Cracki> obs
2019-08-05T03:20:55 < Cracki> v
2019-08-05T03:21:00 < Cracki> round ones are "precision"
2019-08-05T03:21:20 < Cracki> they need precision pins. any old IC leg doesn't work
2019-08-05T03:21:53 < Cracki> that's probably for more surface (better current carrying)
2019-08-05T03:22:02 < rajkosto> nah just for more lock in
2019-08-05T03:25:16 < salcedo> When asked how the old man achieved great wealth and sent his children to Ivy League schools, Boomer Jay answered, "I hold the patent on precision 2.54mm square pins that are used in headers since 1963. I don't know what's wrong with kids today. No boot straps."
2019-08-05T03:27:04 < rajkosto> theres precision square as well as round ?
2019-08-05T03:28:00 < Cracki> lol no, he's just trolling
2019-08-05T03:28:14 < Cracki> square is usually 0.65mm on a side
2019-08-05T03:29:06 < Cracki> 0.635mm for those who want their imperial to remain PURE
2019-08-05T03:29:19 < mawk> amazingly round has more surface than square
2019-08-05T03:29:24 < mawk> I would have though the contrary
2019-08-05T03:29:52 < Cracki> given how the square females are built (two opposite sides springy), yeah
2019-08-05T03:30:03 < rajkosto> i hate those
2019-08-05T03:30:08 < rajkosto> they keep pulling out
2019-08-05T03:30:15 < mawk> round cylinder has surface π × D × L, and square has surface 2√2 × D × L
2019-08-05T03:30:17 < rajkosto> thats why i have the round ones but now they wont fit the squares
2019-08-05T03:30:21 < Cracki> then you gotta do some plastic surgery to tighten it up
2019-08-05T03:31:02 < Cracki> mawk, wat do you measure? circle with diameter D has less circumference than square of side length D
2019-08-05T03:31:10 < Cracki> so you must be comparing different things
2019-08-05T03:31:11 < mawk> for precision a round thing does less high frequency shit when acting as an antenna I guess
2019-08-05T03:31:20 < mawk> I took diameter D, Cracki 
2019-08-05T03:31:22 < mawk> not side
2019-08-05T03:31:26 < mawk> for the square
2019-08-05T03:31:29 < Cracki> ic
2019-08-05T03:31:53 < Cracki> yes, for the inscribed square, bulging the sides out for a circle...
2019-08-05T03:32:14 < Cracki> rajkosto, have you tried lube and a hammer?
2019-08-05T03:32:35 < rajkosto> i tried just hammer
2019-08-05T03:32:42 < rajkosto> it pushes the pins out of their socket
2019-08-05T03:32:57 < Cracki> don't let them get away! nail em down
2019-08-05T03:41:22 < salcedo> mawk: i scrapped that standalone esp8266 design and went with a d1 mini lol
2019-08-05T03:41:32 < salcedo> also got rid of the screen
2019-08-05T03:43:05 < mawk> what's d1 mini already ?
2019-08-05T03:43:07 < mawk> arduino ?
2019-08-05T03:47:20 < salcedo> wemos d1 mini
2019-08-05T03:47:27 < salcedo> esp8266 thingy
2019-08-05T03:47:29 < salcedo> super cheap
2019-08-05T03:47:53 < salcedo> decided not to put any interface on the pcb at all
2019-08-05T03:48:02 < salcedo> no leds, no display, no buttons
2019-08-05T03:48:28 < salcedo> just async webserver and websockets
2019-08-05T03:48:37 < salcedo> store whole app on the flash
2019-08-05T03:49:21 < salcedo> gets wifi, connect to it in browser, see fancy reflow oven buttons, status text/icons, live reflow profile chart
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2019-08-05T04:06:13 < rajkosto> then you have to bother with it serving web pages and being stateful and designing a web ui
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2019-08-05T04:08:50 < salcedo> no prob
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2019-08-05T04:22:00 < kiki_lamb> Cracki: yah, i'm gonna try to update one of my eBay's clones firmware in a sec.
2019-08-05T04:23:41 < Cracki> if it fails, open it up, find its own swd pins, and hope there's an unlocked bootloader and firmware somewhere on the internet :P
2019-08-05T04:23:49 < Cracki> I think i remember having seen such a thing
2019-08-05T04:23:52 < Cracki> eh, it'll work
2019-08-05T04:24:46 < englishman> rajkosto there are plenty of plug n play shits for esp1488 web shit
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2019-08-05T05:22:37 < aandrew> so my 16yo niece is taking programming in school
2019-08-05T05:22:42 < aandrew> they're teaching C++
2019-08-05T05:22:48 < aandrew> the first thing they teach is that indices start at 1
2019-08-05T05:22:49 < aandrew> wtf
2019-08-05T05:23:26 < aandrew> and they call arrays vectors
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2019-08-05T05:29:49 < rajkosto> they insisted that local variables declared inside main were global
2019-08-05T05:29:54 < rajkosto> in my high school ;)
2019-08-05T05:32:48 < Cracki> what moron teaches this?
2019-08-05T05:32:56 < Cracki> name and shame
2019-08-05T05:33:06 < rajkosto> thats not as bad as saying indices start at 1 tho
2019-08-05T05:33:35 < rajkosto> its just dumbass teachers following a book without knowing a damn thing about programming
2019-08-05T05:39:58 < Cracki> I fucking hope no high school kids have to suffer through that in my town. if I knew I'd volunteer right away
2019-08-05T05:40:01 < Cracki> that is just awful
2019-08-05T05:41:11 < Cracki> back in middle school I regularly visited a kind of after-school school that offered a programming "course". the dude only knew pascal which I already knew too. I asked for C. he said "sorry, I don't know that"
2019-08-05T05:41:38 < Cracki> bitch what? just tell me to go to the library and check out a book, and find me a pirated copy of some compiler or something
2019-08-05T05:41:41 < rajkosto> my high school started with pascal too
2019-08-05T05:41:50 < rajkosto> on nice, 80 column limited DOS turbopascal
2019-08-05T05:41:57 < Cracki> <3
2019-08-05T05:41:59 < Cracki> those were the days
2019-08-05T05:42:04 < rajkosto> not really
2019-08-05T05:42:20 < Cracki> I did some fucked up little graphics. the father of one of the "class" mates asked me what the purpose of those graphics were...
2019-08-05T05:42:37 < Cracki> I didn't know how to answer "it's fun and pretty to look at"
2019-08-05T05:42:42 < rajkosto> there was no actual using of the turbopascal libraries or anything
2019-08-05T05:42:47 < rajkosto> or it would have been more fun
2019-08-05T05:45:21 < Cracki> I need valium. got a grown ass dude who says he's proficient in javascript, trying to learn python and C++ and opencv api at once
2019-08-05T05:45:41 < rajkosto> cuz thats what you do
2019-08-05T05:45:42 < Cracki> and he has trouble reading a jupyter notebook, confusing what's code and what's output
2019-08-05T05:45:46 < rajkosto> to make them deeeep neural networks
2019-08-05T05:46:46 < salcedo> rofl
2019-08-05T05:46:51 < salcedo> those were th edays
2019-08-05T05:47:34 < salcedo> knew this autistic dude with the same first name as me when i was 13
2019-08-05T05:48:16 < Cracki> did he reee?
2019-08-05T05:48:18 < salcedo> computer class. he's geeked out on writing basic
2019-08-05T05:48:30 < salcedo> and i was like "hey you wanna learn C?"
2019-08-05T05:48:47 < salcedo> "I DON'T HAVE A COMPILER!!!"
2019-08-05T05:48:55 < salcedo> teacher was like "wtf... heh. okayy...."
2019-08-05T05:49:14 < salcedo> "don't worry man! i got one."
2019-08-05T05:49:52 < salcedo> and he was super sketched out
2019-08-05T05:50:23 < Cracki> yuck! compiler cooties
2019-08-05T05:50:42 < salcedo> the plan was to sneak out of our houses at 9PM and meet 1/2 way between them.
2019-08-05T05:50:59 < salcedo> so it's like 9PM and i'm sneaking through the neighborhood behind people's houses and shit. trying to stay out of street lights.
2019-08-05T05:51:03 < Cracki> and then you'd exchange your floppies
2019-08-05T05:51:08 < salcedo> with a pile of fucking floppies lol
2019-08-05T05:51:18 < Cracki> whyyy
2019-08-05T05:51:26 < salcedo> because the kid didn't have a modem
2019-08-05T05:51:27 < Cracki> just do it in broad daylight like real gangstas
2019-08-05T05:51:59 < salcedo> i stopped by like a week later and he had coded tic tac toe with all kinds of sprite animations and shit
2019-08-05T05:52:10 < Cracki> how many baud did you have back then? 9600 or was it more already?
2019-08-05T05:52:35 < salcedo> 9600 was the standard yea
2019-08-05T05:52:38 < Cracki> or he found a computer mag with code listings
2019-08-05T05:52:45 < salcedo> 14400 if you were rich
2019-08-05T05:52:55 < rajkosto> thats for BBS stuff
2019-08-05T05:53:12 < salcedo> then i got a 28800 !
2019-08-05T05:53:19 < rajkosto> that required an ISP, no ?
2019-08-05T05:53:28 < salcedo> i used 28800 up until like 1999
2019-08-05T05:53:32 < Cracki> bbs don't, they only require knowing a phone number
2019-08-05T05:53:36 < rajkosto> Rockwell modem was for 28800
2019-08-05T05:53:42 < rajkosto> i meant higher speeds like 28k
2019-08-05T05:53:54 < Cracki> nah, it's all analog
2019-08-05T05:53:57 < salcedo> yea most isps had 57600 by then
2019-08-05T05:54:24 < salcedo> i never had broadband until 2010
2019-08-05T05:54:25 < rajkosto> we had bad phone line downstairs where i was
2019-08-05T05:54:30 < rajkosto> so only 28k
2019-08-05T05:55:11 < rajkosto> and i dont think the ISP had digital lines themselves until like 2000
2019-08-05T05:55:55 < rajkosto> or 99
2019-08-05T05:56:09 < rajkosto> in november 2004 we got BROADBAND at blazing fast 128k
2019-08-05T05:56:15 < rajkosto> cable
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2019-08-05T05:56:36 < Cracki_> I'm almost sure that you can do 28.8k between two residential phone lines with ordinary dialup modems
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2019-08-05T05:56:50 < rajkosto> yes 56k is the one that needs digital @ the ISP
2019-08-05T05:57:00 < Cracki> hm, why's that
2019-08-05T05:57:11 < rajkosto> too much loss/noise otherwise
2019-08-05T05:57:16 < Cracki> eh pff
2019-08-05T05:57:27 < rajkosto> with ISP being digital, only one way loss 
2019-08-05T05:57:37 < salcedo> that doesn't make any sense
2019-08-05T05:57:43 < rajkosto> you can check it
2019-08-05T05:58:28 < Cracki> it makes sense in the same way ADSL has line length limits today
2019-08-05T05:58:29 < rajkosto> 56k was done with insanely dense modulation and some cheating with compression
2019-08-05T05:58:42 < rajkosto> the UPLOAD from the user at 56k was still 33k
2019-08-05T05:58:53 < Cracki> or 48k with v.92
2019-08-05T05:58:58 < salcedo> htat's why
2019-08-05T05:59:27 < Cracki> and all that still supposes that the line length wasn't too much
2019-08-05T05:59:45 < salcedo> i'm on 128kbit/sec now lol
2019-08-05T05:59:56 < Cracki> I'd guess that you wouldn't get 48k or maybe not even 33.6k between two residential lines
2019-08-05T05:59:58 < rajkosto> what third world shithole is that
2019-08-05T06:00:09 < salcedo> what third world shithole am i in?
2019-08-05T06:00:11 < rajkosto> i never got more than 28k even with winmodems
2019-08-05T06:00:15 < salcedo> i'm in ohio dude
2019-08-05T06:00:22 < salcedo> 128kbit/sec baby!
2019-08-05T06:00:26 < rajkosto> hahaha, now youre stuck in ohio !
2019-08-05T06:00:33 < Cracki> ohio has cities
2019-08-05T06:00:39 < Cracki> are you in the middle of nowhere
2019-08-05T06:00:45 < salcedo> nope
2019-08-05T06:00:49 < Cracki> yes you are, don't lie
2019-08-05T06:00:58 < salcedo> i'm only like 1 hour away from a city
2019-08-05T06:01:06 < Cracki> that's in the middle of nowhere
2019-08-05T06:01:17 < salcedo> but we have walmart
2019-08-05T06:01:26 < Cracki> the south pole has a fucking walmart
2019-08-05T06:01:34 < rajkosto> i wish i had a walmart
2019-08-05T06:01:42 < salcedo> but yea
2019-08-05T06:01:52 < salcedo> 128kbit/sec is through tmobile
2019-08-05T06:02:00 < salcedo> there's 100mbit cable here
2019-08-05T06:02:16 < Cracki> 128k wireless/mobile or wired?
2019-08-05T06:02:22 < rajkosto> no 5G long evolution scams there ?
2019-08-05T06:02:23 < Cracki> 128k wireless must be some superbasic plan
2019-08-05T06:02:30 < salcedo> 128kbit/sec is "LTE" here
2019-08-05T06:02:36 < Cracki> wat
2019-08-05T06:02:38 < rajkosto> no, thats below EDGE
2019-08-05T06:02:44 < salcedo> seriously
2019-08-05T06:02:52 < rajkosto> thats GPRS speeds
2019-08-05T06:02:54 < salcedo> i pay $10/mo to tmobile for 2GB of "LTE"
2019-08-05T06:02:55 < Cracki> or he's on a limited plan and into the throttling
2019-08-05T06:03:07 < rajkosto> here, the limited plans throttle to 2mbps
2019-08-05T06:03:09 < salcedo> it's 128kbit/sec on LTE
2019-08-05T06:03:15 < rajkosto> after you use up the 100GB or whatever
2019-08-05T06:03:25 < salcedo> because the town where i live
2019-08-05T06:03:27 < Cracki> maybe because you ARE in the middle of nowhere, and the nearest cell tower is that far away
2019-08-05T06:03:32 < salcedo> nah
2019-08-05T06:03:41 < salcedo> the nearest tmobile tower is less than 2 miles
2019-08-05T06:03:42 < Cracki> WAT where do you get 100 GB cellular data?
2019-08-05T06:03:49 < salcedo> the issue is
2019-08-05T06:04:02 < rajkosto> Cracki, 4G internet plan ?
2019-08-05T06:04:02 < salcedo> it's the ONLY tmobile tower for like 45 miles
2019-08-05T06:04:07 < rajkosto> for 5$ a month ?
2019-08-05T06:04:10 < Cracki> you expect decent data rates at over 2 miles?
2019-08-05T06:04:24 < salcedo> yes. i have a good antenna setup :)
2019-08-05T06:04:33 < Cracki> rajkosto, where the fuck is 100 GB mobile data just 5 bucks a month?
2019-08-05T06:04:37 < salcedo> plus 2nd floor. and i can SEE the tower flashing at night
2019-08-05T06:04:39 < Cracki> I want that here
2019-08-05T06:04:40 < salcedo> so it's LoS
2019-08-05T06:04:51 < salcedo> the problem is it's the only tower
2019-08-05T06:05:00 < rajkosto> no 5G future for you
2019-08-05T06:05:11 < salcedo> and there's a main thru-way that said tower serves.
2019-08-05T06:05:39 < salcedo> i.e. 1000's of customers plus NPCs streaming music and youtube and shit while they're traveling.
2019-08-05T06:05:46 < salcedo> it's a very congested tower.
2019-08-05T06:06:23 < salcedo> $10/mo gets me 128kbit/sec "LTE". there's literally no difference when i get throttled after using up 2GB
2019-08-05T06:07:04 < salcedo> sometimes i burst up to around 768kbit/sec when i'm not throttled. but that's rare.
2019-08-05T06:07:40 < salcedo> this town banned cell carriers from putting towers within city limits.
2019-08-05T06:07:48 < Cracki> lol
2019-08-05T06:07:56 < salcedo> because all these kids kept getting brain cancer and shit
2019-08-05T06:08:05 < Cracki> kick them out of office
2019-08-05T06:08:10 < Cracki> with some lead
2019-08-05T06:08:16 < salcedo> lol what actually happened was
2019-08-05T06:08:43 < salcedo> in the 70's/80's or w/e, there is a factory here that dumped a bunch of toxic shit into the ground.
2019-08-05T06:09:05 < salcedo> then they built a public swimming pool on top of the dump site
2019-08-05T06:09:15 < salcedo> and made it free for employees and their families to swim there
2019-08-05T06:09:29 < Cracki> lol
2019-08-05T06:09:36 < Cracki> much springfield
2019-08-05T06:09:39 < salcedo> so these kids grew up swimming in a toxic waste dump. and a bunch of them got a rare form of cancer.
2019-08-05T06:10:17 < salcedo> for years, nobody wanted to admit what it was, so they started doing anything except point the finger at the factory.
2019-08-05T06:10:29 < rajkosto> did any mutants form
2019-08-05T06:10:32 < salcedo> "let's ban cell towers! that must be what' scausing the cancer!"
2019-08-05T06:10:42 < rajkosto> did you get x-men
2019-08-05T06:10:58 < salcedo> in 2012 or 2013, the EPA came out and started sniffing around
2019-08-05T06:11:07 < salcedo> that's when they found out about the dump site at the swimming pool
2019-08-05T06:11:37 < salcedo> they also got some retired dudes to come forward and testify that they were paid to dump the shit and keep it hush hush
2019-08-05T06:11:47 < salcedo> these guys had nothing to lose because the factory screwed them out of their pensions in 2008
2019-08-05T06:12:01 < salcedo> but they never made it to court
2019-08-05T06:12:10 < salcedo> let's just say they're no longer in town
2019-08-05T06:12:45 < salcedo> corporate folks came into town and started going door to door putting flyers in peoples' mail boxes
2019-08-05T06:12:56 < salcedo> basically saying "shut the fuck up or we're closing down the factory and moving it to mexico"
2019-08-05T06:13:18 < salcedo> so the whole town was like "ohshit" and put their dead kids over their jobs.
2019-08-05T06:13:27 < salcedo> err jobs over their dead kids, rather.
2019-08-05T06:13:50 < salcedo> like "my kid got murdered by this place, but i don't want to lose my shitty $12/hr line worker job"
2019-08-05T06:14:57 < salcedo> there were lawsuits for years. all settled.
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2019-08-05T06:54:14 < dale6998_> hello
2019-08-05T06:55:23 < dale6998_> does anyone know if i have 2 channels going on ADC and am using DMA to manage everything, does that mean i'll go into the ConvCpltCallback for each channel conversion, or once after both channels have been converted?
2019-08-05T07:07:19 < kiki_lamb> huh, curious... one of my clone ST-Link's didn't wanna take the update, the other one accepted it... seems to still work with the usual command line tools. now to try the ide...
2019-08-05T07:18:11 < dale6998_> also, is there some trap for young players when it comes to converting uint32_t to float32_t?
2019-08-05T07:19:00 < dale6998_> float x = (float32_t)(x_uint_value) is making x a negative number
2019-08-05T07:27:22 < mawk> float is signed dale6998_ 
2019-08-05T07:27:25 < mawk> uint isn't signed
2019-08-05T07:28:06 < mawk> maybe you just have overflow
2019-08-05T07:29:14 < mawk> are you sure you convert it like that dale6998_ ? is it the real code ?
2019-08-05T07:29:23 < mawk> are you not doing it with puny cast for instance
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2019-08-05T08:22:34 < dale6998> hey, sorry
2019-08-05T08:23:21 < dale6998> i wound up using a union and punning
2019-08-05T08:45:26 < rajkosto> so you didnt actually want to convert numbers
2019-08-05T08:45:33 < rajkosto> you wanted to reinterpret some bytes as a float and an uint
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2019-08-05T08:50:09 < dale6998> yeah, i want to make sure that that int is treated as a float for some other calculations down the road
2019-08-05T08:51:04 < dale6998> i'm actually trying to get the DMA's ADC readings, but those come in as a uint...but, I have to scale them and do some other stuff, so I need them to be floats when the get off the DMA train
2019-08-05T08:51:25 < dale6998> i guess i didn't want to convert numbers?
2019-08-05T08:51:37 < dale6998> i don't know what you mean by that...convert them to what?
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2019-08-05T10:15:37 < kiki_lamb> anyone seen a good example for an STM32F1 of using it as a USB audio input device? I was able to generate USB audio device code in Cube and upload it, and while it does seem to produce a usb audio device that Windows recognizes, it only provides an output.
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2019-08-05T10:53:34 < jadew> aandrew, I had an argument with a teacher about indexing from 1... in college!
2019-08-05T10:54:14 < jadew> that was the first time there when I realized I'm in the wrong place
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2019-08-05T10:56:42 < jadew> I was already a lead dev at the time and very young, so my tolerance for silly stuff was low
2019-08-05T10:57:22 < jadew> these days I'd let it pass with just a small note
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2019-08-05T10:58:10 < jadew> that said, if your niece has a good understanding of loops, she'll be comfortable with both indexing styles
2019-08-05T11:02:54 < jadew> Haohmaru, she was lost
2019-08-05T11:04:37 < jadew> the last time when a teacher had better programming skills than I did, I was in elementary school
2019-08-05T11:04:49 < jadew> Haohmaru, that was the case in pascal too IIRC
2019-08-05T11:05:12 < jadew> because the first element was actually the length of the string
2019-08-05T11:05:29 < jadew> which, again IIRC, was why strings were limited to 255 characters
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2019-08-05T11:05:49 < jadew> I haven't done pascal in more than 20 years
2019-08-05T11:06:34 < jadew> the BM257 just arrived
2019-08-05T11:06:36 < jadew> it's so tiny
2019-08-05T11:06:41 < jadew> very cute
2019-08-05T11:06:48 < jadew> and it came with the good leads
2019-08-05T11:06:54 < jadew> brymen bm257
2019-08-05T11:08:28 < jadew> a tiny multimeter
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2019-08-05T11:11:41 < Thorn> bm257 is tiny?
2019-08-05T11:11:49 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-05T11:12:00 < Thorn> compared to what
2019-08-05T11:12:10 < jadew> picture incoming
2019-08-05T11:12:25 < Thorn> I would say it's one of the largest handheld dmms
2019-08-05T11:13:41 < Thorn> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/VayRBjI03YE/hqdefault.jpg ?
2019-08-05T11:14:00 < jadew> http://5.12.177.18/stuff/bm257.jpg
2019-08-05T11:14:24 < Thorn> oh 257
2019-08-05T11:14:31 < Thorn> I confused it with 867 lol
2019-08-05T11:14:38 < jadew> Thorn, heh
2019-08-05T11:14:48 < jadew> Haohmaru, maybe that's what it stands for, eh? :)
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2019-08-05T11:16:40 < jadew> I never noticed until now
2019-08-05T11:17:00 < jadew> I'm just glad the little one doesn't have the blue silkscreen for the logo (that's what it's like on the box and in pictures)
2019-08-05T11:17:04 < jadew> and it looks awful
2019-08-05T11:19:55 -!- kow_ [~iccy@135.0.26.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2019-08-05T11:20:43 < jadew> I don't know where my no-name DMM is, but I kept track of its accuracy over several years
2019-08-05T11:20:54 < jadew> it surprised me how stable it was
2019-08-05T11:21:18 < jadew> the benefit of having few counts
2019-08-05T11:39:59 < gnom> https://i.imgur.com/IpYxzet.mp4
2019-08-05T11:41:23 < jadew> http://i.imgur.com/Y18EhhH.gifv
2019-08-05T12:05:25 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/uTndhkK.gifv
2019-08-05T12:07:24 < tctw> hah.
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2019-08-05T12:53:04 < Steffanx> Welcome mr tctw  
2019-08-05T12:53:14 < tctw> hey there
2019-08-05T12:53:18 < tctw> how's morninging?
2019-08-05T12:53:33 < Steffanx> Almost done
2019-08-05T12:54:32 < Steffanx> A perfect time to visit the diy store
2019-08-05T12:54:46 < tctw> wanna come over for a coffee?
2019-08-05T12:54:51 < tctw> I'm doing irish style.
2019-08-05T12:55:29 < Steffanx> Nah the train ride is a bit long for just a coffee
2019-08-05T12:59:14 < jpa-> you want dessert also?
2019-08-05T13:11:38 < tctw> heh
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2019-08-05T13:31:00 -!- jly [uid355225@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wphcdhqmivttrqnl] has joined ##stm32
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2019-08-05T13:37:29 < aandrew> oh fuck I *hated* pascal
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2019-08-05T13:39:18 < aandrew> jadew: that first gif (guy backflipping off the building) was like "Ima need a minute here"
2019-08-05T13:39:30 < aandrew> jadew: the second one with the chick hitting three glass walls... fuck lol
2019-08-05T13:40:49 < jadew> that first guy broke something for sure
2019-08-05T13:40:59 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.212.89.53] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-05T13:41:27 < jadew> jlcrappcb: http://5.12.177.18/stuff/jlc.jpg
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2019-08-05T13:55:53 < jly> did it explode?
2019-08-05T13:56:21 < Mangy_Dog> that got past the pcb fab qna?
2019-08-05T13:56:34 < Mangy_Dog> pobobe test should have found that
2019-08-05T13:56:50 < Mangy_Dog> probe
2019-08-05T13:56:57 < jadew> I think there's still a little copper left
2019-08-05T13:57:08 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2019-08-05T13:57:36 < jadew> but the board is punctured, and I noticed marks like that on other boards too
2019-08-05T13:57:42 < Mangy_Dog> and thats jlc
2019-08-05T13:57:46 < jadew> which means it's something to do with the way they process them
2019-08-05T13:57:56 < Mangy_Dog> damn
2019-08-05T13:58:08 < Mangy_Dog> you need to tell them
2019-08-05T13:58:17 < jadew> like that's gonna change anything for me
2019-08-05T13:58:29 < Mangy_Dog> refund at the very least
2019-08-05T13:58:36 < jadew> it's just the one board
2019-08-05T13:58:42 < jadew> (that I found so far)
2019-08-05T13:58:46 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2019-08-05T13:59:00 < jadew> I guess it depends on how lucky you are
2019-08-05T13:59:24 < jadew> anyway, food time
2019-08-05T13:59:25 < Mangy_Dog> well tell them
2019-08-05T13:59:35 < Mangy_Dog> also tell them you have those other puncture marks
2019-08-05T14:02:43 < Mangy_Dog> also jlc isnt some fly by night chinese company youll never hear of again
2019-08-05T14:02:54 < Mangy_Dog> theyre pretty big and have some massive contracts too
2019-08-05T14:03:07 < jly> I saw madonna
2019-08-05T14:03:13 < Mangy_Dog> you should tell them, theyill likely look after you and maybe even offer a free next order or somthing
2019-08-05T14:07:45 < jly> yeah i saw madonna eatin a fried banana out the dumpster behind the benihana in little tijuana, i thought she was workin the corner now the coroner explaining to my daughter why her father has just been slaughtered by a former popstar in florida
2019-08-05T14:08:49 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2019-08-05T14:11:07 < jadew> do you think in the future famous whores will have tours where they go to different countries, where they sell tickets for sex?
2019-08-05T14:12:09 < jadew> "She's going to stay there for 7 days, out of which two days she will be spending visiting. All 300 tickets have sold out in the first 2 hours."
2019-08-05T14:15:26 < jadew> and the tickets could have different tiers: 1) 10 minutes, private. 2) In line. 3) bukake. 4, 5 and 6 tires are for spectators and they're based on how close to the fucking floor they are
2019-08-05T14:16:24 < Laurenceb> jadew is very familiar with this
2019-08-05T14:16:59 < jadew> I just have a business oriented mind
2019-08-05T14:18:30 < aandrew> jadew: hm looks like that board got hit before it was soldermasked
2019-08-05T14:18:35 < aandrew> the etch looks fine
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2019-08-05T14:27:37 < jly> on-bright
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2019-08-05T14:37:01 < Laurenceb> reee 8chan is btfo'd
2019-08-05T14:37:10 < Laurenceb> now I have nowhere to shitpost
2019-08-05T14:45:19 < aandrew> heh
2019-08-05T14:45:23 < aandrew> I feel so non-PC
2019-08-05T14:45:30 < aandrew> TODO: add a way to skip a timeslot (emulate dead slave or be able to "mute" a slave)
2019-08-05T14:46:18 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.212.89.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-08-05T14:48:12 < jadew> aandrew, there are people who want us to stop saying master/slave
2019-08-05T14:48:22 < tctw> so blaxter is still alive too. Great!
2019-08-05T14:48:36 < tctw> how's life, Mr. jadew ?
2019-08-05T14:48:50 < aandrew> jadew: I know. "leader/follower" that was a thing 15y ago when I was in industrial power
2019-08-05T14:49:05 < jadew> tctw, it's good, thanks, how are you?
2019-08-05T14:49:19 < tctw> jadew, nice to hear! doing good too.
2019-08-05T14:49:23 < tctw> jadew, how's your daughter doing?
2019-08-05T14:49:36 < jadew> I have a son :)
2019-08-05T14:49:42 < tctw> damn, I'm sorry man :/
2019-08-05T14:49:42 < jadew> he's good, preparing to go to school
2019-08-05T14:49:47 < tctw> it has been a while...
2019-08-05T14:49:49 < jadew> np :)
2019-08-05T14:49:54 < tctw> ah, that sounds like fun
2019-08-05T14:50:09 < tctw> is this where the kids can't wait to finally go to school and on the 3rd day it already sucks?
2019-08-05T14:50:29 < jadew> he has mixed feelings about it, we'll see
2019-08-05T14:50:39 < tctw> tell him to stay away from drugs.
2019-08-05T14:51:06 < jadew> already did
2019-08-05T14:51:11 < tctw> good
2019-08-05T14:51:24 < tctw> did he understand what you're talking about?
2019-08-05T14:51:32 < tctw> or was it more of a "stay away from candy that looks like it's made for adults"?
2019-08-05T14:51:57 < jadew> yeah, we got into the details of it (because he asked)
2019-08-05T14:52:24 < tctw> interesting. how did that go?
2019-08-05T14:53:04 < jadew> it was one of the easier talks
2019-08-05T14:53:22 < tctw> we talk like 6 years old-ish by now?
2019-08-05T14:53:28 < tctw> it was 4 the last time I checked in I think
2019-08-05T14:53:32 < tctw> or am I completely off here?
2019-08-05T14:53:45 < jadew> yeah, he's 6
2019-08-05T14:53:56 < jadew> yeah, I think you're right
2019-08-05T14:53:57 < tctw> yeah, my brain is better with numbers. "I don't see gender"
2019-08-05T14:54:12 < jadew> last night he wanted to know who will put the crosses on me and his mom's graves when we die
2019-08-05T14:54:25 < jadew> so some discussions are more awkward than others hehe
2019-08-05T14:54:47 < tctw> I guess the best option is to always have the discussion and not avoid it?
2019-08-05T14:54:55 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-05T14:55:02 < jadew> I avoided the sex thing tho
2019-08-05T14:55:34 < jadew> I explained almost everything, but he keeps asking how we put the new cell into his mom
2019-08-05T14:56:09 < tctw> "cell"?
2019-08-05T14:56:09 < jadew> haha
2019-08-05T14:56:26 < jadew> tctw, I explained to him that he is made from two cells that merged together
2019-08-05T14:56:32 < jadew> one from me, one from his mom
2019-08-05T14:56:34 < tctw> hmm... I guess you thought a lot about this (at least definitely more than me): Why do you avoid the sex talk?
2019-08-05T14:56:51 < tctw> jadew, great - I guess you shot yourself into the knee with that one :p
2019-08-05T14:56:58 < jadew> there's actually a funny back story to the cell thing
2019-08-05T14:57:00 < jadew> tctw, yeah
2019-08-05T14:57:18 < aandrew> I love having those kinds of talks with kids
2019-08-05T14:57:23 < aandrew> when they get curious
2019-08-05T14:57:31 < jadew> when I told him about cells and how people are born (it was a couple of years back)
2019-08-05T14:57:47 < aandrew> the 'why' stage was fun, and if you don't blow them off it tends to stick around which is good
2019-08-05T14:57:47 < jadew> I showed some onion cells on the microscope
2019-08-05T14:58:22 < jadew> then we went out to get some more plants and check them out and when we came back he ran quickly to the microscope and said "I'm going to check is someone grew from those cells"
2019-08-05T14:58:37 < jadew> aandrew, yeah, I like it too
2019-08-05T14:58:54 < aandrew> jadew: did you do the celery stalk in water with food colouring yet?
2019-08-05T14:58:54 < tctw> jadew, sounds like a very nice son to me :)
2019-08-05T14:58:59 < aandrew> I'm going to do that with my son soon
2019-08-05T14:59:10 < tctw> jadew, $girlfriend wants to have a kid so I'm doing a lot more thinking on that stuff.
2019-08-05T14:59:18 < jadew> tctw, thanks
2019-08-05T14:59:59 < aandrew> sprouting kidney beans, (electro) magnetism, gears/ratios, bottle rockets, map reading... all expriments I want to do with him
2019-08-05T15:00:00 < jadew> aandrew, no, they did it at school tho
2019-08-05T15:00:06 < jadew> *kindergarten
2019-08-05T15:00:18 < jadew> tctw, kids are great
2019-08-05T15:00:56 < tctw> jadew, I don't want to be that annoying guy so if you prefer not to talk about it I'm completely understanding. However, I get a feeling that the question was simply lost in the conversation and I actually am curious, so here's a copy-pasta:
2019-08-05T15:01:03 < tctw> <tctw> hmm... I guess you thought a lot about this (at least definitely more than me): Why do you avoid the sex talk?
2019-08-05T15:01:34 < jadew> tctw, selfish reasons mostly
2019-08-05T15:01:47 < tctw> jadew, may you elaborate?
2019-08-05T15:01:53 < jadew> I don't want him to figure out we're having sex when we're saying we're sleeping
2019-08-05T15:02:09 < tctw> lol
2019-08-05T15:02:17 < tctw> as in: avoiding more questions?
2019-08-05T15:02:18 < jadew> it will lead to weird conversations
2019-08-05T15:02:20 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-05T15:02:43 < tctw> hmm... that much to "it's best to never avoid the questions" :p
2019-08-05T15:02:45 < jadew> he'll eventually learn at school (probably from other kids) and then he'll come with the question home
2019-08-05T15:02:51 < tctw> true
2019-08-05T15:02:52 < jadew> there's no rush
2019-08-05T15:03:02 < tctw> so what was your answer on how you get your cell in there?
2019-08-05T15:03:13 < jadew> I didn't answer
2019-08-05T15:03:24 < jadew> I pretended I have something to do at that moment and left
2019-08-05T15:03:25 < tctw> as in: ignore?
2019-08-05T15:03:30 < tctw> interesting
2019-08-05T15:03:37 < tctw> is that a "recommended" way of dealing with this?
2019-08-05T15:03:40 < jadew> needless to say, the question came up many times
2019-08-05T15:03:42 < jadew> and still does
2019-08-05T15:03:51 < tctw> as in: did you have the talk I have with you right now with other people before you got your own $kid as well?
2019-08-05T15:03:51 < jadew> I don't know what the recommended way is
2019-08-05T15:04:03 < jadew> I talked with my wife about it
2019-08-05T15:04:12 < jadew> we wondered weather to tell him or not
2019-08-05T15:04:23 < tctw> what's your opinion on just going with: "This is something you'll learn when you're a bit older"  (that's very common around here)
2019-08-05T15:04:54 < jadew> tctw, I don't think it's a bad approach
2019-08-05T15:05:17 < jadew> it achieves two things: 1) It marks the subject as an adult subject, so nothing to toy with.
2019-08-05T15:05:56 < jadew> 2) It saves you from answering the question, right now, when you think it's not appropriate.
2019-08-05T15:06:08 < tctw> sounds like win-win to me :p
2019-08-05T15:06:09 < jadew> thing is, if you think something is not appropriate, it probably isn't
2019-08-05T15:06:39 < tctw> that sounds like decent advice to me :)
2019-08-05T15:07:15 < jadew> like seeing excessive amounts of violence, you kinda know where the limit is
2019-08-05T15:07:32 < jadew> it's hard to say way, but you know it's better if they don't have that on their minds yet
2019-08-05T15:07:40 < tctw> so I guess no Laurenceb query for $son.
2019-08-05T15:07:52 < jadew> (I do let him watch violent stuff tho, just not anything gory)
2019-08-05T15:08:06 < tctw> that makes sens4
2019-08-05T15:08:41 < tctw> I was surprised to read that the question continued to come back (and still does). My impression of children is that they have the focus span of a wet toaster
2019-08-05T15:08:50 < tctw> is there such thing as #kids? :o
2019-08-05T15:09:05 < tctw> hah, you got me - I haven't been here for too long.
2019-08-05T15:09:21 < jadew> tctw, they do, unless they start analyzing stuff on their own
2019-08-05T15:09:41 < jadew> you discuss something today and you could get a follow up question 2 weeks from now
2019-08-05T15:09:49 < tctw> jadew, and I guess vagina things are a lot more interesting for that than calculus?
2019-08-05T15:09:59 < tctw> interesting
2019-08-05T15:10:14 < aandrew> my 6yo was convinced the woman drinks the man's sperm and that's how babies are made
2019-08-05T15:10:22 < jadew> lol
2019-08-05T15:11:01 < tctw> well when I was that age I thought it happens through kissing as in: the sperm travels from the man's testicles up through the tongue over to the woman's tongue and then down into her belly
2019-08-05T15:11:03 < tctw> #NoShame
2019-08-05T15:11:39 < tctw> I assume that would happen a lot less in .ro 
2019-08-05T15:11:53 < tctw> (no judgement, just from how I understand the cultural difference between eastern and western cultures)
2019-08-05T15:12:15 < jadew> Haohmaru, that's illegal here, but we already had that talk
2019-08-05T15:12:24 < tctw> see, there we go - it's even illegal :p
2019-08-05T15:12:25 < jadew> at least the beginning of it
2019-08-05T15:12:45 < jadew> marriage is illegal, not homosexuality
2019-08-05T15:12:48 < jadew> homosexuality is fine
2019-08-05T15:12:51 < tctw> jadew, what exactly is illegal if I may ask? Homosexuality in general or a homosexual couple having kids?
2019-08-05T15:12:56 < tctw> alright
2019-08-05T15:13:05 < tctw> so two daddies is still possible then?
2019-08-05T15:13:19 < specing> My guess is that adoption would be impossible
2019-08-05T15:13:20 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-05T15:13:30 < jadew> adoption could be more difficult
2019-08-05T15:13:36 < jadew> you could do it as a single parent
2019-08-05T15:15:44 < jadew> there was a vote and nation-wide debate on this topic recently
2019-08-05T15:16:19 < jadew> the church going people are not comfortable with it, so it's not happening
2019-08-05T15:16:50 < tctw> where's 'here'?
2019-08-05T15:17:29 < tctw> may I ask from which country you're from?
2019-08-05T15:18:08 < tctw> alright
2019-08-05T15:18:21 < tctw> how's turkey doing these days?
2019-08-05T15:18:34 < jadew> been there last month
2019-08-05T15:18:55 < jadew> I didn't notice anything weird while there
2019-08-05T15:19:20 < tctw> good.
2019-08-05T15:20:54 < jadew> I don't know why I keep delaying assembling this board
2019-08-05T15:21:06 < tctw> jadew, any advice you'd give to a 26 years old dude who's looking into having a kid in around two years?
2019-08-05T15:21:10 < tctw> (now you know why)
2019-08-05T15:21:27 < jadew> tctw, don't be afraid
2019-08-05T15:21:47 < tctw> jadew, were there any moments where you doubted your decision?
2019-08-05T15:21:58 < tctw> and if so, how does $wife / $girlfriend deal with that?
2019-08-05T15:22:48 < jadew> let me put it this way... at least one of you is going to be tired like never before
2019-08-05T15:23:40 < jadew> the way you deal with it is that you keep in mind that it's gonna pass
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2019-08-05T15:24:29 < jadew> all that is made easy by the fact that kids are adorable
2019-08-05T15:25:50 < jadew> also, try to get your parents on it
2019-08-05T15:33:48 < tctw> may you elaborate the parents thing?
2019-08-05T15:34:22 < Laurenceb> wonder how many basement dwellers came out into the sun when 8chan went down
2019-08-05T15:34:53 < jadew> tctw, they can take some of the load off and they're more trustworthy than strangers for hire
2019-08-05T15:35:20 < salcedo> Laurenceb: hope you bought stock in a sun screen manufacturer.
2019-08-05T15:35:42 < tctw> jadew, so would you say that your and your partner are having a very asymmetric child-raising/maintenance method?
2019-08-05T15:35:46 < Laurenceb> keek salcedo
2019-08-05T15:35:57 < jadew> tctw, no, but I wish we did
2019-08-05T15:36:21 < jadew> wait
2019-08-05T15:36:37 < jadew> I misread that
2019-08-05T15:36:55 < tctw> it was meant as in: one is a lot more involved (hence a lot more tired) than the other party
2019-08-05T15:36:59 < jadew> if by asymmetric you mean different, then no it's not very different
2019-08-05T15:37:09 < jadew> ah, that, no
2019-08-05T15:37:11 < jadew> we'
2019-08-05T15:37:17 < jadew> we're both on it
2019-08-05T15:37:28 < tctw> my girlfriend would appreciate it if she doesn't have to stop working completely - and so do I.
2019-08-05T15:37:50 < jadew> one of you will have to stop working for a while
2019-08-05T15:38:00 < jadew> you can't have a small kid and still work
2019-08-05T15:38:08 < salcedo> yes you can
2019-08-05T15:38:38 < jadew> not without going through a lot of trouble
2019-08-05T15:38:48 < salcedo> one of my friends raised 2 kids - both working full time jobs.
2019-08-05T15:39:02 < jadew> you have to breast feed them at least 6 months and they eat at 3 hours intervals
2019-08-05T15:39:12 < salcedo> no you don't.
2019-08-05T15:39:52 < tctw> I see
2019-08-05T15:39:53 < salcedo> come to 'murica. you can have all the kids you want. work full time jobs. let the state raise them.
2019-08-05T15:39:55 < aandrew> salcedo: IMO if you're having kids and nobody is staying home you're doing the kid a disservice
2019-08-05T15:40:17 < aandrew> first 5y are super important in development and I don't trust daycare/people you pay with that
2019-08-05T15:40:31 < salcedo> development into what?
2019-08-05T15:40:37 < jadew> into healthy adults
2019-08-05T15:40:39 < aandrew> salcedo: brain development
2019-08-05T15:40:50 < salcedo> kids are like stm32
2019-08-05T15:40:56 < jadew> we like the kindergarten he went to
2019-08-05T15:41:39 < salcedo> you flash them with your values during their first 5 years. once they hit a public school system, they receive chip_erase and re-flashed.
2019-08-05T15:42:06 < jadew> so you don't take them to a public school :)
2019-08-05T15:42:12 < aandrew> salcedo: heh
2019-08-05T15:42:23 < jadew> but I don't think it's like that
2019-08-05T15:42:41 < jadew> when they go to school, they'll just start meeting different people with different misconceptions
2019-08-05T15:42:52 < aandrew> salcedo: yeah we didn't send ours to public school (went to montessori instead) -- my kids from 1st marriage went to public school. they're fine (19/18y now) but would have liked the opportunity to not have done that
2019-08-05T15:42:54 < jadew> it's also an important step
2019-08-05T15:43:09 < aandrew> I'm homeschooling my 10yo this year, should be fun
2019-08-05T15:43:24 < aandrew> my 7yo was homeschooled for the last 1.5y (wife did 99% of that though)
2019-08-05T15:43:28 < jadew> aandrew, we went montessori too, for the kindergarten
2019-08-05T15:43:43 < aandrew> yep. I'm not 100% happy with montessori either but it's a big step up from public school
2019-08-05T15:43:44 < jadew> for the school we went for something else, but still private
2019-08-05T15:43:59 < aandrew> and I thnk after grade 3 or so montessori is less important because the foundation is there
2019-08-05T15:44:21 < salcedo> if i ever have kids (very unlikely), i don't care if I die homeless and alone as long as i did whatever it takes to make sure the kid does not go to a public school.
2019-08-05T15:44:26 < salcedo> homeschool preferrably.
2019-08-05T15:44:35 < aandrew> salcedo: that's kind of the route we're taking
2019-08-05T15:44:52 < aandrew> working our assess off for it but it's affecting the marriage
2019-08-05T15:45:07 < aandrew> not saying that's a side effect, I think we're just growing apart after 15y
2019-08-05T15:45:11 < salcedo> don't beat yourself up about that.
2019-08-05T15:45:26 < salcedo> what's important is your kids. even if the marriage ends.
2019-08-05T15:45:40 < aandrew> oh I know
2019-08-05T15:45:44 < aandrew> been through 1 divorce already
2019-08-05T15:45:49 < aandrew> just don't want to divorce when the kids are so young
2019-08-05T15:45:59 < jadew> aandrew, you feel it's heading there?
2019-08-05T15:46:13 < salcedo> aandrew: why marriage not working?
2019-08-05T15:46:31 < aandrew> I am pretty sure my wife's gont some kind of metnal issue (she's very smart but I think there's something from her childhood fucking things up in there). she's very diffiuclt to live with
2019-08-05T15:46:36 < salcedo> if it's finance/money issues, just end the shit now. no reason to prolong it.
2019-08-05T15:46:52 < jadew> aandrew, sorry to hear that
2019-08-05T15:46:56 < aandrew> no it's not money, we've got money. she's an accountant and a fucking good one, she's the reason we are where we are financially
2019-08-05T15:47:15 < salcedo> ok so then step your game up and wagecuck moar.
2019-08-05T15:47:15 < aandrew> she's also very smart and puts the family first -- not a greedy/selfish woman
2019-08-05T15:47:55 < aandrew> we just don't see eye to eye on more and more things and both of us in our 40s are less willing/able to put up with/ignore it I think
2019-08-05T15:47:55 < salcedo> lucky mofo too btw :)
2019-08-05T15:48:07 < aandrew> could just be part of a normal path a relationship takes after so much time too
2019-08-05T15:48:15 < aandrew> I see/hear it often
2019-08-05T15:48:21 < salcedo> yea
2019-08-05T15:48:23 < aandrew> so I don't want to break up just because it's a phase
2019-08-05T15:48:33 < salcedo> kill technology
2019-08-05T15:48:38 < aandrew> I'm also not at all interested in finding another woman, not even remotely
2019-08-05T15:48:42 < salcedo> get your relationship back
2019-08-05T15:48:53 < aandrew> yeah. I think that is the correct path of action
2019-08-05T15:49:02 < aandrew> and i mean when it's good it's very very very good
2019-08-05T15:49:15 < aandrew> we have a lot of the same goals/methods/ideals
2019-08-05T15:49:38 < salcedo> i'm foreveralone.jpeg because i can't find someone who isn't on facebook. lol
2019-08-05T15:49:38 < aandrew> again reasons why I think it's not time to end
2019-08-05T15:49:48 < jadew> aandrew, I don't agree with my wife on many things and we're both stubborn. What I realized is that there are periods when those differences of opinion become more apparent
2019-08-05T15:49:49 < aandrew> maybe time to be apart for a while, but not split
2019-08-05T15:50:04 < jadew> it's usually during stressful periods for both of us
2019-08-05T15:50:13 < aandrew> jadew: yes, but is more than ... 75% of the time you're at odds, even in a "cold war" kind of way?
2019-08-05T15:50:40 < tctw> jadew, thanks for all the info - I appreciate it a lot :)
2019-08-05T15:50:46 < jadew> tctw, np
2019-08-05T15:50:56 < salcedo> i'm the asshole who tries to pick up women... starts conversation... sometimes things are going in the right direction... "oh btw facebook?" "yeah!" "sorry. this won't work. it was so nice to meet you tho! bye."
2019-08-05T15:50:57 < aandrew> I find I just don't talk to her because she'll be pissed with me because I didn't say something right or she "can't beleive I'm that stupid"
2019-08-05T15:51:32 < aandrew> dunno.
2019-08-05T15:51:39 < aandrew> #stm32-marriagecounselling
2019-08-05T15:51:42 < jadew> aandrew, maybe you should go to couple therapy?
2019-08-05T15:52:31 < aandrew> yeah I am fighitng the "I don't want to bother becuase nothing will change" and the "I'm not going to be such a stupid fuck that I let something go that I should be fighitng for"
2019-08-05T15:52:32 < jadew> I mean... if you can't find a way to talk things through by yourselves, maybe you just need a referee to get you closer to doing it by yourselves
2019-08-05T15:53:04 < aandrew> you know what it's like when you're gut-punched and it just feels like the bottom of you're struggling to breathe? 
2019-08-05T15:53:17 < aandrew> feels like the bottom has fallen out of your gut
2019-08-05T15:53:30 < salcedo> aandrew: as a never-married never-will-be-married my opinion doesn't matter - but i don't think marriage is something you should be fighting for.
2019-08-05T15:53:46 < aandrew> salcedo: well.. I look at this way
2019-08-05T15:53:49 < salcedo> either the differences are something that can be worked out or it's not worth prolonging.
2019-08-05T15:54:10 < aandrew> we are both very strong-willed, stubborn people from very different backgrounds. 
2019-08-05T15:54:28 < aandrew> it's simply not reasonable to assume that it will be fairytales and romance even most of the time
2019-08-05T15:54:41 < aandrew> real life is hard with diffiuclt decisions
2019-08-05T15:55:04 < aandrew> and differences of opinion can be very deeply entrenched
2019-08-05T15:55:24 < tctw> we should get jpa- in on this
2019-08-05T15:55:24 < aandrew> not everything is worth fighting for, you're right
2019-08-05T15:55:43 < jadew> I think a marriage is tho
2019-08-05T15:55:45 < aandrew> but I've seen the good in it and I think it is worth it most of the time
2019-08-05T15:56:00 < aandrew> brb
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2019-08-05T15:58:26 < jadew> aandrew, not sure if you watched any of jordan peterson's stuff, but he has a bit where he talks about arguments inside a marriage
2019-08-05T15:59:21 < jadew> and he says that when you're in that situation, you shouldn't go dig up everything, but instead each of you should figure out what is the _minimum_ each of you has to do so the other person is not annoyed anymore
2019-08-05T16:00:15 < jadew> I'm repeating myself a lot today, didn't get my sleep
2019-08-05T16:03:40 < jadew> salcedo, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-SVPsGMPi8
2019-08-05T16:04:04 < specing> salcedo: start pickup up men
2019-08-05T16:04:15 < specing> salcedo: they'll even fix your car!
2019-08-05T16:04:18 < Cracki> ^
2019-08-05T16:04:34 < Cracki> unless theyre the feminine kind
2019-08-05T16:04:47 < specing> depends
2019-08-05T16:04:58 < specing> can't they be an engineer and the feminine kind?
2019-08-05T16:05:17 < jadew> specing, a good engineer?
2019-08-05T16:05:18 < Cracki> yes they can! empowered traps
2019-08-05T16:05:33 < jadew> lol Cracki 
2019-08-05T16:05:56 < Cracki> skirts give better range of motion for crawling around inside and under heavy equipment
2019-08-05T16:06:30 < Cracki> slim hands can reach tricky spots
2019-08-05T16:06:38 < Cracki> anything that won't move just gets the blowtorch
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2019-08-05T16:16:21 < aandrew> well marriage is something you willingly entered in to and swore to protect and uphold. I think that if you aren't willing to give it everything and *really* truly fight for it then you probably should not be getting married
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2019-08-05T16:17:54 < Cracki> you got a crazy one https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5tEELgWBfKbA9fVPRzBzPQ/videos
2019-08-05T16:18:09 < Cracki> maybe she didn't mean any of it
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2019-08-05T16:21:00 < jadew> aandrew, that's a good way of putting it
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2019-08-05T16:24:28 < Cracki> "alternative" schools are hotbeds of degenerate suicidal liberalism. not sure about montessori but most of the people I know that went to such a school are damaged somehow
2019-08-05T16:24:42 < Cracki> (alternative <> private)
2019-08-05T16:26:50 < salcedo> depends
2019-08-05T16:27:14 < salcedo> i get put into an "alternative" school in HS and i turned out fine lol
2019-08-05T16:27:26 < Cracki> case study: huge dude, learned to dance his name, but never any real conflict resolution strategies. he avoids them, acting like he could get beat up for the tiniest conflict. that's a technique usually taught to physical wusses.
2019-08-05T16:28:08 < jadew> Cracki, my kid does karate in kindergarten, with a black belt
2019-08-05T16:28:13 < Cracki> awesome
2019-08-05T16:28:15 < salcedo> got sent there because i kept skipping classes. they said "go to this school or get expelled." and i was like "ok."
2019-08-05T16:28:27 < Cracki> literally "dance his name"
2019-08-05T16:28:45 < jadew> Cracki, also, they teach them to fight back since the very first days there
2019-08-05T16:28:48 < salcedo> so my first day, english class was wrestling, we had regular smoke breaks, lunch was 1 hour off-school-grounds to go do drugs.
2019-08-05T16:28:55 < salcedo> and best of all, no homework.
2019-08-05T16:29:00 < jadew> basically, if someone is not letting them be (other kids) they're thought to scratch
2019-08-05T16:29:01 < Cracki> not quite
2019-08-05T16:29:27 < salcedo> the teachers there had a very different approach. as long as you contributed SOMETHING to the class, you passed.
2019-08-05T16:29:38 < Cracki> the dude himself realized the bullshit of it all. in one class they suddenly asked everyone to dance a completely nonsensical statement
2019-08-05T16:30:03 < jadew> Cracki, that sounds stupid
2019-08-05T16:30:03 < salcedo> science class was "here's your textbooks. learn something, make a project and a report by the end of the semester."
2019-08-05T16:30:08 < Cracki> obviously
2019-08-05T16:31:01 < jadew> Haohmaru, you've never seen good choreography?
2019-08-05T16:31:07 < jadew> you can dance anything
2019-08-05T16:31:42 < Cracki> that's exactly the point. it's a wtf.
2019-08-05T16:31:56 < Cracki> for one, they appear to have a kind of alphabet, like you'd do the "YMCA"
2019-08-05T16:32:12 < Cracki> and then you can jump around and flail with your arms and "make it mean something"
2019-08-05T16:32:22 < Cracki> think ballet but for little retards
2019-08-05T16:32:27 < jadew> lol
2019-08-05T16:32:58 < Cracki> screw proper choreography, that's too structured
2019-08-05T16:33:18 < Cracki> karate is excellent. action with meaning.
2019-08-05T16:33:38 < Cracki> he learned defective conflict management strategies
2019-08-05T16:34:00 < Cracki> these kids are taught to be passive aggressive little shits
2019-08-05T16:34:04 < Cracki> impossible to work with
2019-08-05T16:34:37 < Cracki> perfect followers. they can't lead and if you give them the least bit of leadership, they fuck it up
2019-08-05T16:35:04 < Cracki> they think structure maintains itself, rather than it takes dedicated people to keep putting energy into something
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2019-08-05T16:36:27 < salcedo> lol when fighter jets buzz over and then 5 minutes later the scanner goes off with cardiac victims :(
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2019-08-05T16:36:38 < salcedo> damn jets scared some old people to death
2019-08-05T16:36:51 < Cracki> you must be living in florida, murica's retirement home
2019-08-05T16:37:17 < Cracki> that too
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2019-08-05T16:37:37 < Cracki> florida has some strong enclaves of dual citizenship school shooters
2019-08-05T16:38:06 < salcedo> australia sux
2019-08-05T16:38:35 < salcedo> everything including a simple house fly has lethal venom and will kill you in your sleep
2019-08-05T16:38:53 < Cracki> sounds like avatar's pandora
2019-08-05T16:39:06 < salcedo> once a penal colony - now won't let felons from other countries visit.
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2019-08-05T16:39:29 < salcedo> and stupid australian defence ministry banned me for life when i was 17
2019-08-05T16:39:31 < Cracki> think about that. they know the real danger, they say no to it.
2019-08-05T16:39:35 < salcedo> i've never even been to australia
2019-08-05T16:41:45 < salcedo> ok here's something interesting.
2019-08-05T16:42:00 < salcedo> submitted this board design to jlcpcb and i'm looking at the gerber viewer
2019-08-05T16:42:22 < salcedo> the front silkscreen layer has an outline of the WeMoS D1 Mini
2019-08-05T16:42:46 < salcedo> in kicad, it's a rectangle with rounded edges at the top where the antenna is
2019-08-05T16:43:03 < Cracki> pics or gtfo
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2019-08-05T16:43:18 < Cracki> sharpie in...
2019-08-05T16:43:19 < salcedo> somehow, jlcpcb inverted the angle of the edges
2019-08-05T16:43:33 < salcedo> i'll screenshot the differences. give me 5 minutes to upload the image.
2019-08-05T16:43:40 < salcedo> on my 3rd world tmobile 128kbit/sec
2019-08-05T16:43:44 < Cracki> oh right you're on morse
2019-08-05T16:43:55 < Cracki> send a pigeon
2019-08-05T16:43:59 < salcedo> lol morse
2019-08-05T16:44:06 < Cracki> sounds like kicad fucked up
2019-08-05T16:44:14 < Cracki> or they fucked up
2019-08-05T16:44:23 < salcedo> stfu i have a telegraph key on my desk right now
2019-08-05T16:44:31 < salcedo> hooked up to a ft991a
2019-08-05T16:44:37 < Cracki> or both. arcs should not be so hard
2019-08-05T16:45:10 < salcedo> it's just the silk screen... so i'm not worried. it's just weird.
2019-08-05T16:45:48 < Cracki> try it in a different gerber viewer
2019-08-05T16:46:21 < salcedo> also i forgot the drill files
2019-08-05T16:46:23 < Cracki> the dxf makes it work. the local laser cutter eats dxf like a champ, but don't you dare feed it svg
2019-08-05T16:46:42 < Cracki> svg is a hippie format
2019-08-05T16:47:01 < Cracki> same
2019-08-05T16:47:53 < salcedo> https://postimg.cc/VSjPkxvQ
2019-08-05T16:48:01 < salcedo> this is what it's supposed to look like
2019-08-05T16:48:33 < salcedo> https://postimg.cc/WtyWx9pM
2019-08-05T16:48:38 < salcedo> here's what it looks like in gerber viewer
2019-08-05T16:48:49 < Cracki> lol
2019-08-05T16:48:52 < Cracki> almost right
2019-08-05T16:49:05 < Cracki> wait, both is jlc, why do they have differing interpretations of the same data?
2019-08-05T16:49:20 < salcedo> yea fucking weird rite?
2019-08-05T17:02:27 < salcedo> it's elevated
2019-08-05T17:03:02 < salcedo> i'm just gonna remove that silkscreen from the footprint
2019-08-05T17:04:17 < salcedo> hmm.. yea
2019-08-05T17:04:27 < salcedo> i mean if it actually ships boards like that it doesn't matter
2019-08-05T17:04:41 < salcedo> muh OCD lol
2019-08-05T17:07:35 < salcedo> yea i just added them lol
2019-08-05T17:07:47 < salcedo> this is v02 of reflow oven controller
2019-08-05T17:13:42 < salcedo> We're sending you back to 深圳市嘉立创科技发展有限公司 to complete this purchase.
2019-08-05T17:13:47 < salcedo> chiiiiiiinyahhhh
2019-08-05T17:15:11 < salcedo> time to BOM!
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2019-08-05T18:42:58 < jpa-> tctw: i'm totally not getting in on that wall of text!
2019-08-05T18:47:35 < jpa-> tctw: you being self-employed, it should be pretty easy to arrange 50-50 stay at homing, so both can work some too
2019-08-05T18:51:40 < zyp> decent countries also have decent parental leave benefits
2019-08-05T18:52:15 < jpa-> yeah, though i assume money is probably not the main issue for tctw 
2019-08-05T18:56:55 < bitmask> my pcbs are being drilled, I love jlcpcb's job progress thing 15% done
2019-08-05T18:57:28 < tctw> alright
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2019-08-05T19:01:29 < zyp> jpa-, idk, I didn't read the discussion
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2019-08-05T19:12:38 < salcedo> tctw: yea that's how my friend did it. he switched to a remote job before having kids.
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2019-08-05T19:13:44 < tctw> that makes sense
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2019-08-05T19:37:01 < salcedo> Mom! I just ordered BOM making materials from the Internet!
2019-08-05T19:37:15 < salcedo> $31 for 2 pcbs worth. not too bad.
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2019-08-05T21:10:48 < rajkosto> the rise time in this schematic is kind abad and that makes 50% pwm not appear as 50% anymore, what do https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-05_20-09-05_qfOE7IfGt.png
2019-08-05T21:11:01 < salcedo> i think i mixed up SDI/SDO on this chip
2019-08-05T21:11:08 < salcedo> SDI = MOSI right?
2019-08-05T21:12:13 < Cracki> depends, is the chip slave?
2019-08-05T21:14:28 < salcedo> yes
2019-08-05T21:15:15 < Cracki> sounds good then
2019-08-05T21:15:25 < jpa-> rajkosto: about a microsecond rise time? not sure you'd want it any faster, from EMI point of view
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2019-08-05T21:15:43 < salcedo> phew. i had already ordered boards
2019-08-05T21:15:44 < rajkosto> yes but the duty cycle is affected a bunch
2019-08-05T21:16:52 < jpa-> rajkosto: why do you have the 12V for the bases if you are only using 3.3V on the output side?
2019-08-05T21:17:01 < rajkosto> level convertor
2019-08-05T21:17:23 < jpa-> .. level converting from 3V to 3.3V by going through 12V??
2019-08-05T21:17:38 < rajkosto> the pulse and NMOS are in the source device, have no control over it
2019-08-05T21:17:42 < jpa-> that makes the response quite asymmetric, which messes up your duty cycle much more than the rise time does
2019-08-05T21:17:48 < rajkosto> i get open drain signals with 12V power line next to them
2019-08-05T21:18:20 < jpa-> so replace the 12V with the 3.3V you are using for output
2019-08-05T21:18:45 < rajkosto> the source signal is 12V referenced not 3.3v
2019-08-05T21:18:56 < jpa-> uh? you said it is open drain
2019-08-05T21:19:06 < rajkosto> it drives to gnd
2019-08-05T21:19:16 < rajkosto> floats on high
2019-08-05T21:19:18 < jpa-> so it doesn't care if you pull it up to only 3.3V
2019-08-05T21:19:39 < rajkosto> cant do that, would affect other things on that "bus"
2019-08-05T21:19:45 < jpa-> also might want to replace R4 with 2k because that's what R3+R2 path is
2019-08-05T21:20:26 < rajkosto> that makles it worse
2019-08-05T21:20:26 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-05_20-20-24_ksR039mZC.png
2019-08-05T21:20:50 < rajkosto> nvm
2019-08-05T21:21:00 < rajkosto> its the same
2019-08-05T21:21:01 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-05_20-20-59_TPyGGOSOS.png
2019-08-05T21:23:16 < jpa-> so what exactly would happen if you just connected emitter of Q1 to 3.3V instead?
2019-08-05T21:23:30 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-05_20-23-29_hwLiT6JI2.png
2019-08-05T21:23:46 < rajkosto> doesnt really help
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2019-08-05T21:25:02 < jpa-> hmh, i wonder if you'd need a resistor down to gnd from Q1's base to discharge it quicker
2019-08-05T21:25:12 < jpa-> err
2019-08-05T21:25:16 < jpa-> no it's the other edge
2019-08-05T21:25:46 < jpa-> because it's pnp; so a resistor between base and emitter of Q1
2019-08-05T21:25:58 < rajkosto> that ruins everything, ive tried
2019-08-05T21:26:02 < jpa-> hehe
2019-08-05T21:26:38 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-05_20-26-38_e1Bg8uUgW.png
2019-08-05T21:26:50 < jpa-> no, not like that
2019-08-05T21:27:02 < jpa-> directly on Q1's base
2019-08-05T21:27:24 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-05_20-27-23_eCBZDQmj9.png
2019-08-05T21:28:07 < rajkosto> why does it make the blue line completely flat tho
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2019-08-05T21:28:25 < jpa-> and why is INv no longer going down to gnd
2019-08-05T21:28:41 < jpa-> it might be that the generic NMOS model you are using is also pretty weird or crappy
2019-08-05T21:28:57 < rajkosto> inv never went to ground
2019-08-05T21:29:07 < rajkosto> doesnt really matter since pnp is current controlled
2019-08-05T21:29:27 < rajkosto> anyway, result is now pretty good
2019-08-05T21:29:39 < rajkosto> as for generic nmos, i dont have control of which nmos is used so
2019-08-05T21:29:48 < jpa-> ah, yeah, kind of looks like overloading the open-drain in the graphs then though
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2019-08-05T21:30:19 < jpa-> it's hard to tell without a grid, but isn't that already closer to 50%, though?
2019-08-05T21:30:26 < rajkosto> yes
2019-08-05T21:31:21 < rajkosto> looks best with 20k
2019-08-05T21:32:53 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-05_20-32-50_aVMCqfpgs.png
2019-08-05T21:34:21 < jpa-> you might be getting quite nasty current spikes on that 3.3V supply though
2019-08-05T21:34:46 < rajkosto> why cant i use the same transistors everywhere btw https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-05_20-34-39_HJGmehYGU.png
2019-08-05T21:35:19 < rajkosto> 3906 jellybean dont work great for the 2nd stage
2019-08-05T21:35:28 < rajkosto> but bc817 dont work at all for the first
2019-08-05T21:36:02 < rajkosto> i can measure the current spikes in ltspice tho
2019-08-05T21:37:11 < jpa-> bc817 is npn, your first stage uses pnp
2019-08-05T21:39:37 < rajkosto> 806*
2019-08-05T21:39:39 < rajkosto> 807*
2019-08-05T21:39:58 < rajkosto> ltspice doesnt let you change transistor type when selecting specific one so i dont remember which one is which ;)
2019-08-05T21:40:30 < rajkosto> actually with the bias now, BC807 works as first stage but gives worse result
2019-08-05T21:41:49 < jpa-> that biasing arrangement isn't probably very stable with regards to individual variation between transistors anyway
2019-08-05T21:43:23 < rajkosto> also this works in simulator https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-05_20-43-21_HNcrQIpDU.png
2019-08-05T21:49:50 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-05_20-49-47_TViUei4mb.png big currents ?
2019-08-05T21:51:16 < rajkosto> changing r3 and r4 to 10k fixes that https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-05_20-51-11_P4lPGyh0A.png
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2019-08-05T22:37:09 < kakimir> evenings bitches
2019-08-05T22:38:30 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDsjHQPjMVI Applied Science has new upload
2019-08-05T22:40:59 < karlp> bitmask: salcedo: https://imgur.com/a/Oc7l2qr
2019-08-05T22:42:08 < kakimir> one does not simply check only one imgur upload
2019-08-05T22:43:49 < karlp> did mrus ever summarize what their problems were with freertos, that were solved by zephyr?
2019-08-05T22:44:07 < salcedo> karlp: i hope you realize i need to wait 5 minutes for these images to load on my 3rd world tmobile
2019-08-05T22:44:11 < salcedo> this better be good lol
2019-08-05T22:45:58 < mrus> karlp: no real problems with freertos other than preferring a Linux Foundation project over something that seems like an AWS project.
2019-08-05T22:47:16 < karlp> Cracki: nooooo. swo is on v2 discos too. you don't need 2.1.
2019-08-05T22:47:16 < salcedo> you don't like aws owning rtos?
2019-08-05T22:47:25 < karlp> we've been over thihs before
2019-08-05T22:47:53 < salcedo> just because aws has freertos doesn't mean jack!
2019-08-05T22:47:57 < mrus> but I guess I need to re-consider FreeRTOS over Zephyr, since documentation on Zephyr is pretty bad and even getting the most basic things to work can be a real PITA
2019-08-05T22:48:30 < salcedo> they can try all they want to renege on "free" once more iot shit saturates the market, they will fail.
2019-08-05T22:49:59 < mrus> idk, in my experience everything AWS touches gets this weird after-taste.
2019-08-05T22:50:20 < mrus> also, Zephyre's logo is cooler (:
2019-08-05T22:52:56 < salcedo> zephyr's website is really pretty too
2019-08-05T22:53:08 < salcedo> it's still loading...
2019-08-05T22:53:59 < kakimir> when I was 10years old my school allowed us to upload home page per student
2019-08-05T22:54:03 < salcedo> disgusting. 100MB of board images and shit
2019-08-05T22:54:13 < salcedo> why do people make websites like this
2019-08-05T22:54:23 < kakimir> my front page was like 30M
2019-08-05T22:54:31 < kakimir> so it was like naah boi
2019-08-05T22:54:51 < kakimir> trick was my page was made of bmp images
2019-08-05T22:54:53 < mrus> you mean, why doesn't every website look like motherfuckingwebsite.com ?
2019-08-05T22:55:03 < salcedo> EXACTLY
2019-08-05T22:55:13 < mrus> I guess the reason is called "SEO".
2019-08-05T22:55:46 < salcedo> i don't think that reason has any validity.
2019-08-05T22:56:25 < mrus> i second that.
2019-08-05T22:56:34 < salcedo> several megabytes of javascript and css and another several 10's of megabytes of images for a landing page is not helping SEO.
2019-08-05T22:56:56 < salcedo> all it's doing is pissing off poor people.
2019-08-05T22:57:26 < mrus> you mean the ones that can't have fast broadband connections?
2019-08-05T22:57:36 < salcedo> yes lol
2019-08-05T22:57:45 < mrus> they're not called poor, they're called Germans.
2019-08-05T22:57:55 < kakimir> several megabytes of javascript :D
2019-08-05T22:58:04 < salcedo> are you in germany? can i come visit?
2019-08-05T22:58:04 < mrus> 50mbit here.
2019-08-05T22:58:31 < mrus> sure, if you can make it across the borders?
2019-08-05T22:58:36 < salcedo> lol nope
2019-08-05T22:58:36 < mrus> (okay, bad one)
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2019-08-05T22:59:15 < mrus> why do you think I'm still haging around on IRC?
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2019-08-05T22:59:20 < mrus> my internet is too slow for Slack.
2019-08-05T22:59:28 < mrus> and my hardware has too little ram.
2019-08-05T22:59:30 < kakimir> germans have bad internets - connection
2019-08-05T22:59:32 < salcedo> i'll take your word that the zephyr documentation is nonexistent. i'm unable to confirm this on my connection
2019-08-05T22:59:42 < kakimir> it's not in any top 10 or anything
2019-08-05T22:59:52 < salcedo> mrus: i'm using wee-slack. it is "good enough" to be usable.
2019-08-05T23:00:08 < mrus> what's wee slack? Let me google that... *one hour later*
2019-08-05T23:00:28 < salcedo> weechat plugin for slack. pain in the ass to get up and running if you're not a full member of the slack team.
2019-08-05T23:00:49 < mrus> oh that's nice. And that still works even after Slack killed their IRC gateway?
2019-08-05T23:00:52 < salcedo> because you have to convince an workspace admin to give you privileges.
2019-08-05T23:01:06 < salcedo> yep. it uses slack api
2019-08-05T23:01:09 < mrus> ah, I see. They're tricking the api.
2019-08-05T23:01:10 < mrus> ok
2019-08-05T23:01:16 < salcedo> works quite well too, considering.
2019-08-05T23:01:47 < mrus> will try it myself, thanks for the hint!
2019-08-05T23:02:03 < salcedo> additionally, i run it on my vps
2019-08-05T23:02:18 < salcedo> because i'm on mobile internet connection
2019-08-05T23:02:27 < salcedo> and no tcp connection ever stays alive for more than about 30 seconds.
2019-08-05T23:02:40 < salcedo> mosh is unaffected because udp
2019-08-05T23:02:48 < mrus> that's cool
2019-08-05T23:03:30 < salcedo> i think if i ran it locally, all the api calls and pings and whatnot would be too much
2019-08-05T23:04:33 < salcedo> slack is the king of hipster bloat crap though
2019-08-05T23:04:57 < mrus> running this here on znc with a push notification plugin for pushover.. that's why I saw karlp mentioning my name. We live in marvelous times.
2019-08-05T23:05:25 < salcedo> in an alternate universe where i was employable, and they asked me if i wanted a macbook or a thinkpad, i'd be like "both please. macbook for slack, thinkpad for work."
2019-08-05T23:05:40 < mrus> heh
2019-08-05T23:06:28 < kakimir> I don't want to go back to work
2019-08-05T23:06:57 < kakimir> salcedo: why are you not employable?
2019-08-05T23:08:30 < salcedo> age, felony convictions, debt, no social media presence, no career history, no college, no certs
2019-08-05T23:08:52 < kakimir> what country?
2019-08-05T23:08:54 < salcedo> USA
2019-08-05T23:08:58 < kakimir> okay
2019-08-05T23:09:08 < kakimir> you are not employable
2019-08-05T23:09:14 < salcedo> rofl
2019-08-05T23:09:23 < kakimir> move to canada
2019-08-05T23:09:25 < salcedo> i make my own job
2019-08-05T23:09:27 < salcedo> canada sucks
2019-08-05T23:09:32 < kakimir> even better
2019-08-05T23:09:34 < specing> what did you do to get felony convictions?
2019-08-05T23:09:44 < salcedo> specing: really stupid stuff
2019-08-05T23:09:46 < specing> salcedo: easy, sysadmin for a cartel
2019-08-05T23:09:52 < kakimir> :D
2019-08-05T23:09:57 < salcedo> i said i'm in the USA not fucking mexico
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2019-08-05T23:10:03 < specing> you can remote
2019-08-05T23:10:18 < kakimir> as if cartel works only on one side of the wall
2019-08-05T23:10:25 < specing> salcedo: what was the really stupid stuff?
2019-08-05T23:10:30 < salcedo> cartel probably has datacenters
2019-08-05T23:10:39 < salcedo> is there an AWS region in mexico? i don't recall.
2019-08-05T23:10:45 < salcedo> pretty sure they have one in brazel
2019-08-05T23:10:48 < salcedo> *brazil
2019-08-05T23:10:58 < salcedo> if so, it's probably owned/operated by cartel
2019-08-05T23:12:21 < kakimir> how old are you salcedo? or how young.. how you preffer
2019-08-05T23:12:29 < salcedo> 36
2019-08-05T23:12:50 < kakimir> 29
2019-08-05T23:12:59 < salcedo> oh damn. you too eh?
2019-08-05T23:13:06 < salcedo> if you don't have a job, you better get one before you next bday
2019-08-05T23:13:15 < salcedo> hiring in tech stops at 30
2019-08-05T23:13:33 < kakimir> tell me more about it
2019-08-05T23:14:07 < salcedo> if you started in your 20's, by your 30's you're definitely senior level.
2019-08-05T23:14:11 < salcedo> aka expensive.
2019-08-05T23:14:15 < kakimir> oh
2019-08-05T23:14:20 < kakimir> I'm junior level
2019-08-05T23:14:40 < kakimir> and I didn't start at 20
2019-08-05T23:14:56 < specing> salcedo: what was the really stupid stuff?
2019-08-05T23:14:58 < kakimir> I did blinking ligths with attiny at 20
2019-08-05T23:15:44 < salcedo> specing: i tried to steal your grandma's purse by deploying a modified version of payment card processing software at massive scale
2019-08-05T23:16:19 < salcedo> it was not my brightest moment :)
2019-08-05T23:16:28 < salcedo> i also fucked myself for life with that mistake
2019-08-05T23:17:19 < kakimir> nice
2019-08-05T23:17:25 < kakimir> but stupid
2019-08-05T23:17:46 < salcedo> yea really stupid. there's good parts about it though.
2019-08-05T23:17:58 < kakimir> to steal paymets.. nothing new about it
2019-08-05T23:18:27 < salcedo> i think if i didn't get caught, i would have just kept going and would still be doing stupid shit today... or dead... either way i would be unhappy.
2019-08-05T23:18:46 < kakimir> how did you get caught?
2019-08-05T23:19:47 < specing> lol salcedo 
2019-08-05T23:19:52 < salcedo> a combination of informants and being stupid.
2019-08-05T23:20:08 < kakimir> I expected you to say being stupid
2019-08-05T23:20:19 < specing> salcedo: what is your income source now?
2019-08-05T23:20:39 < specing> how long were you in prison?
2019-08-05T23:20:55 < salcedo> i'm a Senior Devops Engineer III for Self-Employed Minimum Wage Freelancer, Inc.
2019-08-05T23:21:27 < salcedo> it's cool. i get my own office. my own computer. my own tax bill at the end of the year.
2019-08-05T23:21:46 -!- c10ud^^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2019-08-05T23:21:47 < salcedo> and i get to change my title a lot.
2019-08-05T23:22:04 < mrus> are you working at AWS? You kind of sound like.
2019-08-05T23:22:12 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N4tXf3Ensw musics
2019-08-05T23:22:22 < salcedo> nah i don't work for a company mrus
2019-08-05T23:22:45 < kakimir> I plan to start my own company soon
2019-08-05T23:23:02 < kakimir> wish to get some innovation money for it
2019-08-05T23:23:13 < qyx> kakimir: for repairing scooters?
2019-08-05T23:23:18 < kakimir> no
2019-08-05T23:23:36 < kakimir> I only get excited of really big ideas
2019-08-05T23:23:40 < salcedo> i'm starting a LLC so i can make LoRa things and sell them on tindie or wherever.
2019-08-05T23:23:44 < salcedo> for a little bit of side income
2019-08-05T23:23:50 < kakimir> but big ideas are expensive
2019-08-05T23:24:07 < kakimir> so I figured something that is big but pretty simple
2019-08-05T23:24:36 < qyx> everyone is selling lora things on tindie :S
2019-08-05T23:24:39 < salcedo> specing: from 2003 to 2010
2019-08-05T23:25:09 < salcedo> qyx: so what? lora is popular :)
2019-08-05T23:25:25 < kakimir> specialize
2019-08-05T23:25:43 < kakimir> add some flavour
2019-08-05T23:25:59 < salcedo> i did notice that a lot of the people selling on tindie are larger companies that are just regurgitating other smaller companies/people's designs and snuffing out the litty guys because they have more capital to mass produce shit cheaper.
2019-08-05T23:26:33 < salcedo> tindie's algorithms also seem to favor this. or they've figured out how to game it.
2019-08-05T23:26:34 < kakimir> chinese companies pushin their clones?
2019-08-05T23:26:39 < salcedo> yea
2019-08-05T23:27:21 < salcedo> which is kind of what i want to do
2019-08-05T23:27:24 < mrus> I recently read about this 702 km record for a LoRa transmission back in 2017. That's actually pretty cool.
2019-08-05T23:27:40 < salcedo> i'm starting literally from the very bottom though.
2019-08-05T23:27:41 < jadew> I never used tindie, is it just like ebay?
2019-08-05T23:27:47 < salcedo> and building everything from scratch.
2019-08-05T23:27:51 < salcedo> right now it's a reflow oven.
2019-08-05T23:28:22 < salcedo> i'll try to make things in that to sell. then i plan to feed all the profit from those things back into a project to build a multi-zone oven from scratch.
2019-08-05T23:29:01 < salcedo> and then hopefully a pick & place machine after that
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2019-08-05T23:29:31 < salcedo> i suck at mechanical design so will probably buy a DIY-friendly kit
2019-08-05T23:29:45 < kakimir> you can ask englishman to run boards for you
2019-08-05T23:29:59 < kakimir> he has pcb house
2019-08-05T23:30:15 < salcedo> as a side-project or like a whole building with employees and stuff?
2019-08-05T23:30:40 < kakimir> mainly whole building with him inside the building sometimes
2019-08-05T23:30:58 < salcedo> i'm trying to become a one-man pcb manufacturer that makes small->medium sized batches of hot ticket items for DIY/maker community
2019-08-05T23:32:54 < kakimir> what is your location?
2019-08-05T23:33:44 < kakimir> does it matter in such business?
2019-08-05T23:34:02 < kakimir> UPS delivers for next day?
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--- Day changed Tue Aug 06 2019
2019-08-06T00:00:31 < salcedo> yea but you have to charge sales tax to state/federal/county/schools/whatever family dynasty is in your town
2019-08-06T00:00:35 < salcedo> and then shipping
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2019-08-06T00:20:46 < mrus> so.. just in case there's someone here with a little knowledge about Zephyr I'd be glad for any hints, since #zephyrproject seems abandoned.
2019-08-06T00:21:04 < salcedo> i think i already said this but their website suuuurrreee loooooks purrrrrdy
2019-08-06T00:21:16 < salcedo> it has that YCombinator flair
2019-08-06T00:23:56 < mrus> it surely has, I just still can't get myself to switch to an AWS project just yet. It's like that one person that you'd only spend the night with out of *real* despair.
2019-08-06T00:24:24 < salcedo> it's not like that
2019-08-06T00:24:32 < salcedo> it's still the same freertos it always has been
2019-08-06T00:24:46 < salcedo> i think the only reason amazon is camping on it is so they can do some kind of nefarious shit later on
2019-08-06T00:25:41 < salcedo> i.e. stifle competition. because that's what amazon does best.
2019-08-06T00:26:00 < mrus> i think i'd rather give RIOT a chance
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2019-08-06T00:51:04 < salcedo> mrus: slack constantly disconnects
2019-08-06T00:51:31 < salcedo> must be instance migrations / autoscaling or something
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2019-08-06T00:52:12 < salcedo> it's not an issue though. just an observation.
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2019-08-06T01:12:12 < bitmask> pcbs being silkscreened, woot
2019-08-06T01:19:18 < jadew> bitmask, I find that progress thing less than useful
2019-08-06T01:19:29 < jadew> what I'd like to know is how they turned out
2019-08-06T01:19:48 < jadew> that way, if they screw something up, I can order before they reach me
2019-08-06T01:19:57 < bitmask> that would be more useful but I still like progress
2019-08-06T01:19:59 < jadew> or better yet, give you the option to cancel the order
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2019-08-06T01:22:39 < jadew> http://5.12.177.18/stuff/IMG_20190806_011251_.jpg
2019-08-06T01:28:46 < salcedo> bitmask: how do you see the progress in greater detail?
2019-08-06T01:28:53 < salcedo> all i see is "In Production"
2019-08-06T01:29:01 < bitmask> click it
2019-08-06T01:29:44 < bitmask> oh it should say production progress
2019-08-06T01:29:58 < bitmask> when you click the account button and it shows your orders
2019-08-06T01:30:07 < salcedo> this is on jlcpcb?
2019-08-06T01:30:17 < salcedo> when i click on account button i see my order but it just says "In Production"
2019-08-06T01:30:20 < bitmask> yea
2019-08-06T01:30:23 < rajkosto> click details
2019-08-06T01:30:25 < rajkosto> and click in production there
2019-08-06T01:30:28 < bitmask> not under order status
2019-08-06T01:30:30 < bitmask> but under product file
2019-08-06T01:30:37 < rajkosto> it apparently takes them many hours to do one step of the pcb process
2019-08-06T01:30:42 < bitmask> dont click details
2019-08-06T01:31:01 < bitmask> oh thats someone else, that purple damnit
2019-08-06T01:31:09 < bitmask> if that works too then fine but I dont need to hit details
2019-08-06T01:31:37 < bitmask> when did you submit it?
2019-08-06T01:31:44 < salcedo> "under the product file" ummm
2019-08-06T01:32:04 < salcedo> this morning
2019-08-06T01:32:11 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/CZyhWGU
2019-08-06T01:32:20 < salcedo> i believe you
2019-08-06T01:32:24 < bitmask> maybe it is still on the first step then
2019-08-06T01:32:26 < salcedo> i can see the progress on my previous order from a few weeks ago
2019-08-06T01:32:32 < bitmask> ohh
2019-08-06T01:32:47 < salcedo> submitted it about 8 or 9 hours ago
2019-08-06T01:33:02 < salcedo> it's matte black though. takes longer to show up i guess.
2019-08-06T01:33:05 < bitmask> ye aprobably didnt start it yet
2019-08-06T01:33:09 < bitmask> I did white
2019-08-06T01:33:18 < bitmask> was considering black though
2019-08-06T01:33:35 < salcedo> it says "In Production" but they're probably waiting for more of the same color to optimize use of material
2019-08-06T01:33:37 < bitmask> I submitted mine a day or two ago though
2019-08-06T01:33:41 < bitmask> right
2019-08-06T01:34:44 < salcedo> gives me time to keep working on this vue.js crap lol
2019-08-06T01:34:49 < salcedo> <-- not a web developer
2019-08-06T01:36:07 < salcedo> or shall i say... i really suck at frontend design and patterns
2019-08-06T01:51:31 < mawk> I don't like js ui
2019-08-06T01:51:46 < mawk> I just use bootstrap with the least moving stuff
2019-08-06T01:51:55 < mawk> and keep js for where interactivity is really needed
2019-08-06T01:54:32 < jadew> heh, I'm buying some caps from TME and this one cap is marked as "Hardly available"
2019-08-06T01:54:36 < jadew> there are 100k+ in stock
2019-08-06T02:10:37 < Cracki> MOC 1 pallet?
2019-08-06T02:21:51 < bitmask> TME? I was gonna get caps from lscs
2019-08-06T02:23:07 < bitmask> web dev is easy from the little ive done but its very time consuming
2019-08-06T02:26:09 < jadew> Cracki, heh, no, 100 pcs
2019-08-06T02:26:45 < jadew> bitmask, from TME I get the components this week
2019-08-06T02:28:14 < jadew> I'm off to bed, night
2019-08-06T02:30:36 < bitmask> later
2019-08-06T02:31:02 < bitmask> I don't know why I bother trying to post things on thingiverse, the website fails half the time and I forget to save the description
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2019-08-06T03:49:39 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-06_02-49-36_J7NsoHgIA.png advanced perfboard routing
2019-08-06T03:50:38 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-06_02-50-35_yVXqFqjJo.png
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2019-08-06T03:56:19 < bitmask> are pipette tips luer lock usually?
2019-08-06T04:04:59 < karlp> salcedo: explain to me how amazon paying freertos developers a wage changes the usefulessness or license of freertos?
2019-08-06T04:06:14 < salcedo> it doesn't.
2019-08-06T04:06:58 < karlp> mrus: from where I'm standing, freertos is amazon deciding they wanted some integrations done, and buyinig was a good option, and freerots still has decades of "fully fuctional, battle tested, production for _decades_ use" and zephyr has, "we don't like talking to people so some google people did their own thing for a bit, and did some stuff that we're going to advertisze a bit, but really, it'
2019-08-06T04:07:14 < karlp> s ust for us..... and... oh yeah, the logo is cooler"
2019-08-06T04:08:51 < karlp> mrus: yar, slack-weechat plugin is great.  works even better than irc gateway from slack.
2019-08-06T04:09:06 < karlp> (but means you need weechat, not ~any irc client)
2019-08-06T04:09:39 < karlp> theyðre not "tricking" the api, they're using the documented api as designed and.... documented...
2019-08-06T04:13:21 < Cracki> say rajkosto, stlink v2-1 firmware seems to require 128k (f103cB), but do any of the v2-a/b firmwares (which both supposedly have the VCP) require 128k as well? the cheap stlink clones now come in f103c8 and even in non-ST (CKS etc)
2019-08-06T04:13:58 < karlp> (swo is worth so much fuckign more than than a uart, I don't even understand why people keep ignoring swo)
2019-08-06T04:14:02 < rajkosto> all legit f103c8 can fit 128k.
2019-08-06T04:14:04 < Cracki> I'm kinda wondering if it'd be a good idea to take one of those designs and chuck swim for swo and uart pins
2019-08-06T04:14:13 < Cracki> well, what i got here isn't legit :>
2019-08-06T04:14:21 < rajkosto> you have the non-ST clone ?
2019-08-06T04:14:26 < rajkosto> the CS32 ?
2019-08-06T04:14:28 < Cracki> unless CKS 103c8 also have 128k
2019-08-06T04:14:33 < Cracki> I think so
2019-08-06T04:14:33 < rajkosto> you can try
2019-08-06T04:14:35 < karlp> rajkosto: definition of legit, "x8 == 64k" so.....
2019-08-06T04:14:46 < rajkosto> just flash a 128k random bin and see if it stays
2019-08-06T04:15:07 < Cracki> hmhm. I'll have to read those blog and forum ports carefully then.
2019-08-06T04:15:09 < rajkosto> the difference between 2.0 and 2.1 is that 2.1 comes with cbt
2019-08-06T04:15:34 < karlp> the anecodotal "historically, x8 parts actually normally had 128k of usable flash" is in no way some sort of "legit parts do xxxx"
2019-08-06T04:15:34 < rajkosto> i dont know what you mean by 2.0a/b
2019-08-06T04:15:38 < karlp> cbt?
2019-08-06T04:15:42 < rajkosto> cock and ball torture
2019-08-06T04:15:56 < Cracki> not quite sure what all is involved. can I assume that the china clones have NO locking, i.e. I can just go at them with SWD from another one and reflash the bootloader and all that?
2019-08-06T04:16:13 < karlp> stlink v2 vs v2.1 is straight up mass strorage (mbed style) programming + the "virtual comm port"
2019-08-06T04:16:16 < rajkosto> the locks can always be overridden
2019-08-06T04:16:25 < rajkosto> karlp, yes, which required more flash space
2019-08-06T04:16:33 < rajkosto> so they put a cbt on there instead of c8t
2019-08-06T04:16:38 < Cracki> this lujji character did a writeup from some forum posts. there'v v2, v2-a, v2-b, v2-1
2019-08-06T04:16:44 < Cracki> where v2-a/b are on nucleos
2019-08-06T04:16:47 < bitmask> you guys have a favorite gauge tip for dispensing solder paste/flux when not using a stencil?
2019-08-06T04:16:55 < karlp> I don't understand how flash space is relevent unless you're buying shitty china clones that don't even wire up swo pins 
2019-08-06T04:16:58 < rajkosto> Cracki, all the ones that have VCP/MSD are 2.1
2019-08-06T04:17:07 < Cracki> hmhm
2019-08-06T04:17:17 < karlp> Cracki: link for anything serious, with facts, or gtfo
2019-08-06T04:17:21 < rajkosto> and need the 2.1 bootloader
2019-08-06T04:17:44 < rajkosto> the locking isnt a problem when you are writing stuff, only when trying to readback
2019-08-06T04:17:57 < karlp> v1 vs v2 is encapsulation of the scsi commands, plus adding swo capture potential.
2019-08-06T04:18:13 < karlp> v2 vs 2.1 is adding msd+vcp, but all protocol levels were the same
2019-08-06T04:18:21 < Cracki> otoh I'm not looking forward to finding two more pins to repurpose. cutting off one of the 5V pins was easy tho
2019-08-06T04:18:28 < karlp> you got some extra speeds on the swo allegedly.
2019-08-06T04:18:41 < Cracki> maybe stealing their china design and changing it a little to suit me is the better way
2019-08-06T04:18:57 < karlp> your time must be fuckking worthless
2019-08-06T04:19:40 < karlp> mrus: so... you're not at _all_ concerned about zephyrs google backstory, but freertoss is just "crazy aws suck"?
2019-08-06T04:20:38 < Cracki> there must be a better way to get them to mass produce stuff besides hoping they "steal" the gerbers. if I knew... I'd construct a little addon board for brushed dc motors that takes an optical encoder. nowhere on aliexpress did I find motors with optical encoders that used better than shit ass injection molded plastic code wheels
2019-08-06T04:22:05 < Cracki> the code wheels are trivial too. i found plenty of places on alibaba that do precision metal etching, which is what the europeans do too for that stuff
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2019-08-06T04:27:57 < Cracki> oh goody, someone claims the cs32 f103c8 might be reproducing the 128k "accident" https://www.cnx-software.com/2019/02/10/cs32-mcu-stm32-clone-bluepill-board/
2019-08-06T04:33:46 < Cracki> legit enough for me https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/unexpected-idcode-flashing-bluepill-clone/msg2183993/#msg2183993
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2019-08-06T04:36:36 < karlp> n=1 comparing a clone and you're like, "legit y0, stm32f103c8t6  is legit same exact as stm32f103cbt6, illuminait just want you to waste your currencyitems.....
2019-08-06T04:37:40 < karlp> you want 128k for a personal project? sure, a xxx8 is probably gonna work. you wanna "legit" build something that needs 128k? you're a fucking nutjob if you think a xxx8 part is "legit"
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2019-08-06T04:54:15 < upgrdman> some of my viewers really like my videos >_>  https://imgur.com/a/IYztcTA
2019-08-06T04:54:42 < Cracki> uhhh some people have anger management issues?
2019-08-06T04:55:01 < Cracki> brb watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bQdrvSLqpg
2019-08-06T04:56:41 < Cracki> do those wheel motors have gears or do they drive directly? I'm kinda amazed it doesn't oscillate all that much
2019-08-06T04:57:12 < Cracki> nvm, sounds geared, looks like modified servos
2019-08-06T04:59:01 < upgrdman> ya, theyre servos mod'd for continuous rotation
2019-08-06T04:59:24 < upgrdman> with external control of the h-bridges so I can do supersonic PWM (quiet)
2019-08-06T04:59:31 < Cracki> and since that was 2016, the controller tuning happened outside the telemetry viewer
2019-08-06T04:59:44 < upgrdman> that project is why i made TV
2019-08-06T04:59:55 < upgrdman> and i show an early version of TV in that video :)
2019-08-06T05:00:58 < Cracki> I know I asked this before... radio is bluetooth? probably some uart?
2019-08-06T05:01:21 < upgrdman> bluetooth uart for the telemetry, CC2500 for the radio control
2019-08-06T05:01:25 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/B0LmZ1U.png
2019-08-06T05:01:27 < bitmask> just fit
2019-08-06T05:01:37 < bitmask> looks like a hexacopter, if only it were that fun
2019-08-06T05:01:53 < mawk> so 500Kbps upgrdman 
2019-08-06T05:02:05 < mawk> nice thing
2019-08-06T05:02:19 < Cracki> thx for the part names
2019-08-06T05:02:21 < upgrdman> mawk, i dont recall, probably around there
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2019-08-06T05:12:44 < R2COM> sup
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2019-08-06T05:29:08 < R2COM> sup buttgrdman
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2019-08-06T05:37:34 < Cracki> he didn't live to read that
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2019-08-06T06:05:52 < bitmask> shame
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2019-08-06T06:51:23 < rajkosto> i just cut my finger on enamel wire ???
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2019-08-06T07:24:17 < bitmask> my boards are 69% done, hee hee
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2019-08-06T09:41:20 < emeb_mac> ok - here's a cool video w/ almost realistic hacking... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbIcCbEuFHM
2019-08-06T09:51:10 < Ultrasauce> better beam these compile errors straight into my brain
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2019-08-06T10:38:37 < dongs> hey at least they tried to use imgui
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2019-08-06T12:27:19 < Cracki> so they made this now https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/development-tools/hardware-development-tools/hardware-development-tools-for-stm32/stlink-v3mini.html
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2019-08-06T12:33:20 < Cracki> oh, since march...
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2019-08-06T13:03:41 < mrus> karlp: I didn't say FreeRTOS is "crazy aws suck" and which backstory are you refering to? That Zephyr was initially developed by WindRiver, the company who also worked on VxWorks and hence should know about how to build a RTOS?
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2019-08-06T14:08:45 < zyp> something like that
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2019-08-06T15:04:38 < Steffanx> But it's free Haohmaru.
2019-08-06T15:11:49 < jadew> now I'm hungry
2019-08-06T15:58:53 < karlp> mrus: I'm still yet to hear what you didn't like about freertos, that led you to zephyr.
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2019-08-06T16:18:44 < karlp> zephyr docs look nice.
2019-08-06T16:21:42 < salcedo> zephyr website sure issss prettttty
2019-08-06T16:22:13 < karlp> website is bouncy and generic, but the docs site looks nice
2019-08-06T16:22:21 < karlp> haven't done anything yet of course
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2019-08-06T16:27:08 < englishman> msp430 usb noise absolutely shitting over everything
2019-08-06T16:27:29 < englishman> no power spec in the datasheet
2019-08-06T16:28:25 < Ultrasauce> have you tried putting all the decoupling on pin 1
2019-08-06T16:31:55 < englishman> yeah everything is fucked
2019-08-06T16:32:06 < englishman> pin1 isn't even a power pon
2019-08-06T16:32:14 < englishman> on f3
2019-08-06T16:32:43 < englishman> zero isolation between analolgue shit and digital shit
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2019-08-06T16:33:33 < englishman> fail on fail on fail
2019-08-06T16:38:04 < mrus> karlp: it was really just AWS involvment in the project that led me to try alternatives first. Especially when something says "Linux Foundation" for me personally it's more worth a try.
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2019-08-06T16:40:19 < salcedo> it's RTOS though. not an Alexa.
2019-08-06T16:40:23 < salcedo> yet...
2019-08-06T17:08:00 < Steffanx> Didn't freertos get more free after amazon took it over? GPL -> MIT?
2019-08-06T17:13:22 < karlp> mrus: linux foundation also means heavy, corporate developers only, targettting only corporate boards too :)
2019-08-06T17:14:21 < salcedo> my nucleo l496zg is supported by zephyr
2019-08-06T17:14:49 < salcedo> heavy corporate $15 ST nucleo board :)
2019-08-06T17:15:21 < karlp> none of tha arm arduinos though, but does include crap like arc 
2019-08-06T17:15:28 < mrus> karlp: they seem to be cooperating with quite a few board manufacturers, hence they have a quite nice portfolio of supported hardware actually. Probably not as large as FreeRTOS, true.
2019-08-06T17:15:29 < karlp> and nios2 and friends
2019-08-06T17:16:22 < karlp> only thing with aws freertos is to avoid the aws integrations, the rest of freertos got much freerer and more parts available in the actually free base section, no longer paid addons
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2019-08-06T17:17:44 < mrus> but I guess I wrote a few hours ago that I'll probably need to take a look around and switch Zephyr for something else - maybe even FreeRTOS - since it doesn't seem to be for me (yet).
2019-08-06T17:17:52 < bitmask> shippy shippy, ship muh boards
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2019-08-06T17:26:12 < Steffanx> done, bitmask
2019-08-06T17:26:21 < bitmask> done
2019-08-06T17:27:18 < Steffanx> yw
2019-08-06T17:27:29 < Steffanx> so what was that hex thingy you printed?
2019-08-06T17:27:30 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqwC2_2p6-w
2019-08-06T17:28:32 < Thorn> T - 7 h 30 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZh82-WcCuo
2019-08-06T17:29:00 < Steffanx> lol that's some quality 3d printed model of the fin Thorn
2019-08-06T17:30:01 < Thorn> T - 5 h 15 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-tJlSc3A1g
2019-08-06T17:30:52 < bitmask> Steffanx a motor mount for my air purifier
2019-08-06T17:31:11 < Thorn> official stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGOHOJRkzZw
2019-08-06T17:32:06 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/jh8wBUt.png
2019-08-06T17:33:45 < Steffanx> i see
2019-08-06T17:33:50 < Steffanx> a design by bitmask?
2019-08-06T17:33:57 < bitmask> of course, who else would come up with something like this
2019-08-06T17:34:05 < Steffanx> idk.
2019-08-06T17:34:07 < bitmask> :)
2019-08-06T17:34:34 < bitmask> you see the insides?
2019-08-06T17:34:37 < Steffanx> that's what i think about many things on thingiverse
2019-08-06T17:34:47 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/2tisPKP.png
2019-08-06T17:34:51 < bitmask> yea true
2019-08-06T17:35:05 < Steffanx> oh secretly its a rocket
2019-08-06T17:35:12 < bitmask> a squid rocket
2019-08-06T17:36:33 < salcedo> more elites transporting themselves to mars? cool
2019-08-06T17:36:34 < bitmask> I didnt realize how much of it I had printed, I thought I needed a whole other roll but the only big piece left is the outlet manifold for the cyclone separators. I guess thats gonna be like half a roll anyway
2019-08-06T17:38:18 < Steffanx> you need bigger rolls
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2019-08-06T17:39:24 < Steffanx> how large is this thing?
2019-08-06T17:39:28 < Steffanx> or small
2019-08-06T17:39:31 < Steffanx> whats the size :P
2019-08-06T17:40:36 < bitmask> thats a 5 gallon bucket
2019-08-06T17:41:06 < bitmask> I made it as big as would fit on my printer bed
2019-08-06T17:41:10 < Steffanx> Sorry, i dont do yankee-scale. ;)
2019-08-06T17:41:24 < bitmask> 19 liter
2019-08-06T17:42:03 < Steffanx> Better show it when its done. With a banana
2019-08-06T17:42:04 < bitmask> http://fivegallonideas.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/bucket-measurements.gif
2019-08-06T17:42:15 < bitmask> im guessing thats somewhat accurate
2019-08-06T17:42:34 < Steffanx> i see
2019-08-06T17:46:04 < Steffanx> Pretty large it is then
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2019-08-06T17:50:00 < bitmask> yea
2019-08-06T17:50:12 < bitmask> hopefully its useful
2019-08-06T17:50:28 < bitmask> its so damn dusty here, I want clean air
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2019-08-06T17:54:39 < mrus> karlp: do you use FreeRTOS on STM32?
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2019-08-06T19:54:37  * banana looks at Steffanx
2019-08-06T19:54:39 < banana> >.>
2019-08-06T19:55:03 < Steffanx> bananananananana
2019-08-06T19:55:17 < banana>  ;> . >
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2019-08-06T20:35:45 < mawk> a bunch of christians talked to me for an hour trying to convert me
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2019-08-06T20:36:02 < mawk> they event tried to pray for my conversion
2019-08-06T20:40:17 < BrainDamage> what was the social context?
2019-08-06T20:41:29 < mawk> I was with my headphones doing some maths on a bench in the street
2019-08-06T20:41:38 < mawk> then they circled me
2019-08-06T20:42:01 < mawk> so I was forced to remove the headphones and listen to their story
2019-08-06T20:42:32 < BrainDamage> I would've been blunt after a short while and say that they are being too aggressive and not interested
2019-08-06T20:43:59 < mawk> they were south americans with a bad french accent so it was painful to listen to
2019-08-06T20:44:13 < mawk> they asked me if I ever fornicated
2019-08-06T20:44:14 < mawk> lol
2019-08-06T20:44:43 < rajkosto> in that exact manner ?
2019-08-06T20:50:27 < Steffanx> the paris life.
2019-08-06T20:52:15 < rajkosto> have you ever went mountain-biking without a helmet ?
2019-08-06T20:53:12 < Steffanx> Ive never been mountainbiking.
2019-08-06T20:53:47 < mawk> yes rajkosto 
2019-08-06T20:53:58 < mawk> they were citing the commandments and asking if I ever did it
2019-08-06T20:54:13 < mawk> so they eventually went to thou shalt not fornicate or whatever
2019-08-06T20:54:55 < BrainDamage> I would ask them why they care about other people's sexuality
2019-08-06T20:58:12 < mawk> lol
2019-08-06T20:58:17 < Cracki> wait, they wanted to sell you anal sex? does france have laws against that or is that legal?
2019-08-06T20:58:34 < mawk> fornicate is sex outside of marriage
2019-08-06T20:58:39 < mawk> they wanted me to stop doing it
2019-08-06T20:59:04 < mawk> so that I don't go to hell so that they can earn christian points and go to heaven thanks to me
2019-08-06T20:59:23 < Ultrasauce> its like bitcoin but for your soul
2019-08-06T20:59:51 < BrainDamage> I would ask if self interest is not frowned among their beliefs
2019-08-06T21:00:15 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-06T21:00:31 < Ultrasauce> good luck talking an evangelist out of evangelism
2019-08-06T21:00:33 < Steffanx> but they do it for you, not for them...
2019-08-06T21:00:47 < BrainDamage> I wouldn't try to convince them
2019-08-06T21:00:48 < Steffanx> Because god loves you too. etc.
2019-08-06T21:01:02 < BrainDamage> I would just try to see if I can make them squirm a bit
2019-08-06T21:01:04 < mawk> yeah sometimes Steffanx 
2019-08-06T21:01:19 < mawk> lol BrainDamage 
2019-08-06T21:01:27 < BrainDamage> I had plenty of fun with a scientology guy one day
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2019-08-06T21:04:02 < mawk> I keep getting scientology brochures
2019-08-06T21:04:12 < mawk> in my mailbox
2019-08-06T21:04:15 < Steffanx> you should move to dutchland. i never get em.
2019-08-06T21:04:21 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-06T21:04:35 < mawk> I have until 18th september then police comes to get me
2019-08-06T21:05:10 < Steffanx> We have Jehovah's_Witnesses though. They come knok on your door for a talk. Often older people.
2019-08-06T21:05:29 < Steffanx> *knock.
2019-08-06T21:09:08 < rajkosto> they started popping up here
2019-08-06T21:09:13 < rajkosto> GLOBALIZING
2019-08-06T21:09:21 < rajkosto> all they do is sit next to a sign handing out pamphlets tho
2019-08-06T21:11:02 < BrainDamage> here they used to go door to door ... the weekend mornings
2019-08-06T21:11:08 < BrainDamage> but they've stopped
2019-08-06T21:22:46 < jadew> I forgot, what is the purpose of that fan?
2019-08-06T21:22:54 < jadew> oh, scrollback
2019-08-06T21:25:39 < jadew> we have jehovah's witnesses too
2019-08-06T21:26:28 < jadew> last time my wife sent them away and I was a bit bummed, cuz I was bored and I wanted to hear what they had to say
2019-08-06T21:26:36 < jadew> must be something good, if it works
2019-08-06T21:26:57 < jadew> also, their sales pitch has to be very well refined, considering they've been doing it for so long
2019-08-06T21:30:04 < jadew> I had a colleague in school who was extremely happy being in a religious sect
2019-08-06T21:31:11 < jadew> it never stopped wondering what exactly makes people decide "ok, this is for me"
2019-08-06T21:31:47 < jadew> that guy was fascinated about the singing and the dancing they did in church
2019-08-06T21:32:27 < BrainDamage> there's hardly little conversion, generally it's family inherited
2019-08-06T21:32:46 < BrainDamage> the mass conversions happened during church's inception
2019-08-06T21:34:20 < BrainDamage> in the case of jeowah witness, they forecasted the end of the world ... multiple times during the early 1900
2019-08-06T21:34:26 < BrainDamage> that's what got them followers
2019-08-06T21:34:44 < jadew> being right on so many occasions?
2019-08-06T21:35:00 < BrainDamage> no, just fear
2019-08-06T21:35:14 < BrainDamage> the world's still up
2019-08-06T21:35:37 < BrainDamage> The group's doctrines surrounding 1914 are the legacy of a series of emphatic claims regarding the years 1799,[4] 1874,[4] 1878,[5] 1914,[6] 1918[7] and 1925[8] made in the Watch Tower Society's  publications between 1879 and 1924. Claims about the significance of  those years, including the presence of Jesus Christ, the beginning of  the "last days", the destruction of worldly governments and the earthly resurrection of Jewish patriarch
2019-08-06T21:35:37 < BrainDamage> s, were successively abandoned
2019-08-06T21:35:40 < jadew> exactly, you'd think people would turn their backs on them once the prophecy doesn't come true
2019-08-06T21:36:11 < BrainDamage> a newly converted it would
2019-08-06T21:36:20 < BrainDamage> not someone who's been indoctrined since birth
2019-08-06T21:36:31 < BrainDamage> there's amost a century span between those
2019-08-06T21:36:36 < Steffanx> The ones doing those predictions is a pretty small group anyway.
2019-08-06T21:38:10 < Steffanx> i always thought romania was pretty catholic jadew.
2019-08-06T21:38:18 < jadew> Steffanx, orthodox
2019-08-06T21:39:17 < BrainDamage> it's not a small group, they go through the society that governs them
2019-08-06T21:39:28 < BrainDamage> so it passes their own internal "peer review"
2019-08-06T21:40:09 < Steffanx> let me restate. A small group in the netherlands. Here you hardly hear about those predictions.
2019-08-06T21:40:21 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/rUWpzGT.png
2019-08-06T21:40:23 < Steffanx> Here it's more: The bible isn't clear about it, so we dont know.
2019-08-06T21:40:23 < bitmask> getting there
2019-08-06T21:41:35 < BrainDamage> what kind of bearings does the fan have?
2019-08-06T21:42:09 < bitmask> the motor? not sure, its a multicopter motor for now
2019-08-06T21:42:34 < BrainDamage> ah, so it's mounted directly on the motor's axle without an external bearing?
2019-08-06T21:42:51 < BrainDamage> you might get fouling in the long run
2019-08-06T21:43:04 < bitmask> whats fouling?
2019-08-06T21:43:17 < BrainDamage> dirt clogging up the hole/motor
2019-08-06T21:44:04 < bitmask> hmm, I dont see it being too big of a problem with how its mounted, but I'll keep an eye on it
2019-08-06T21:44:27 < BrainDamage> yeah, honestly it's the kind of problem you'll be able to address if it presents
2019-08-06T21:44:36 < BrainDamage> you'll notice if the motor gets clogged by dirt
2019-08-06T21:45:19 < BrainDamage> you're not trying to sell thousands of them, so you don't have to predict all the failure modes
2019-08-06T21:45:42 < bitmask> right, just this one
2019-08-06T21:46:30 < Steffanx> for no
2019-08-06T21:46:31 < Steffanx> w
2019-08-06T21:50:05  * antto sneaks a picture thru.. https://i.imgur.com/oz8uMo0.jpg
2019-08-06T21:50:33 < BrainDamage> trying to make your own back to the future display?
2019-08-06T21:50:49 < antto> uh.. nope
2019-08-06T21:51:05 < antto> just a lil clock
2019-08-06T21:52:10 < Steffanx> Whoa, where's all the through hole stuff?
2019-08-06T21:52:13 < rajkosto> already better than what bitmask did hehe
2019-08-06T21:52:30 < antto> maybe if i get a delorean first.. just maybe
2019-08-06T21:52:47 < antto> but it ain't gon fly
2019-08-06T21:53:42 < bitmask> rajkosto its better than what you did too
2019-08-06T21:53:50 < rajkosto> yes
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2019-08-06T21:54:18 < Steffanx> Why dont you add full digits for the dashes? 
2019-08-06T21:54:33 < bitmask> speaking of, did they ship mine?
2019-08-06T21:54:57 < antto> Steffanx do you wanna solder them leds for me?
2019-08-06T21:55:05 < antto> ARE YOU VOLUNTEERING?
2019-08-06T21:55:10 < bitmask> nope, but it passed final inspection
2019-08-06T21:55:17 < Steffanx> Sure antto
2019-08-06T21:55:27 < Steffanx> its like 12 more lds
2019-08-06T21:55:29 < Steffanx> leds
2019-08-06T21:55:31 < antto> then imma put 3 LEDs per segment
2019-08-06T21:55:40 < antto> coz i was thinking about it
2019-08-06T21:55:47 < Steffanx> hehe
2019-08-06T21:56:08 < antto> PREPARE UR iron
2019-08-06T21:56:27 < Steffanx> paste it, place it, reflow it?
2019-08-06T21:56:45 < antto> ah, so ur a cheat0r
2019-08-06T21:57:09 < rajkosto> i have a board that i designed, made, got shipoped, and then i was too lazy to populate it
2019-08-06T21:57:59 < antto> this clock is gon b eggspensive as fugg
2019-08-06T21:58:34 < antto> so i hope it looks as good as i eggspect
2019-08-06T21:59:13 < rajkosto> how will you diffuse
2019-08-06T21:59:26 < antto> a dedicated FR4 board for that
2019-08-06T22:00:00 < antto> mounted in front of this thing at 10 to 20mm (imma have to figure that out via tests)
2019-08-06T22:00:15 < Steffanx> Why is it expensive antto? The led drivers?
2019-08-06T22:00:38 < antto> and inbetween, imma have some sh*t like cookie cutting forms to isolate the light in each segment
2019-08-06T22:00:51 < antto> 10 euro just for them LED drivers
2019-08-06T22:01:38 < rajkosto> why so much
2019-08-06T22:01:40 < antto> two boards (i'll need black soldermask on the front diffuser board)
2019-08-06T22:01:48 < Steffanx> oh 10 euro :P
2019-08-06T22:01:54 < rajkosto> are you gonna R G B each segment separately ?
2019-08-06T22:02:09 < antto> wut, no.. this ain't no rainbow parade sh*t
2019-08-06T22:02:19 < antto> imma use green LEDs
2019-08-06T22:02:25 < rajkosto> lame
2019-08-06T22:02:29 < antto> SHADAP!
2019-08-06T22:02:53 < Steffanx> no blue?
2019-08-06T22:02:58 < rajkosto> then i dont know why 10eur for just drivers
2019-08-06T22:03:11 < antto> cuz they are 7 drivers
2019-08-06T22:03:43 < antto> i was gonna do it with 74hc595 (14 of them, plus individual resistors for each LED) but when i calculated that, it still ended up being 10-ish euro
2019-08-06T22:03:49 < rajkosto> are you gonna have differing brightnesses per segment
2019-08-06T22:03:57 < antto> no
2019-08-06T22:04:12 < rajkosto> then you dont need any of that stuff
2019-08-06T22:04:31 < antto> imma control the brightness of the whole thing, and i've put an ambient light sensor.. hopefully
2019-08-06T22:04:57 < antto> that THT diode thing.. iz akchually phototranzist0r
2019-08-06T22:05:19 < rajkosto> yes brightness of whole thing is easy
2019-08-06T22:05:37 < rajkosto> just have a configurable dc2dc
2019-08-06T22:05:55 < rajkosto> and then just sink each segment through an nmos
2019-08-06T22:06:07 < antto> uh
2019-08-06T22:06:26 < antto> i don't know.. i'm lame
2019-08-06T22:06:43 < antto> i waz gonna PWM the Enable inputs of them LED drivers
2019-08-06T22:07:42 < rajkosto> constant current dc2dc wouldnt work, but just use constant voltage + resistor per segment
2019-08-06T22:08:11 < antto> i had that before.. with 74hc595
2019-08-06T22:08:13 < rajkosto> dcoutput-resistor-led-led-led-nmosdrain
2019-08-06T22:08:17 < antto> a ton of resistors
2019-08-06T22:08:22 < rajkosto> gate of each nmos connected to gpio
2019-08-06T22:08:37 < antto> i got one LED per segment btw
2019-08-06T22:08:43 < rajkosto> you said you wanted to upgrade to 3
2019-08-06T22:09:01 < antto> that was just to punish Steffanx
2019-08-06T22:09:30 < rajkosto> anyway lowering the voltage on the dcoutput would control your brightness cuz the resistor stays the same
2019-08-06T22:09:54 < antto> i know but.. too complicated
2019-08-06T22:10:06 < rajkosto> its less complicated than 7 drivers
2019-08-06T22:10:37 < antto> otherwise i certainly don't like flickering, which i'll get with the PWM sh*t, but i'm hoping to be able to do it at a high enough freq that it won't be visible
2019-08-06T22:11:13 < antto> uhm, but i still want to drive each segment individually
2019-08-06T22:11:18 < rajkosto> yes
2019-08-06T22:11:21 < rajkosto> gpio to gate of each nmos
2019-08-06T22:11:23 < antto> don't wanna scan them
2019-08-06T22:11:37 < antto> nmos?
2019-08-06T22:11:46 < antto> N channel mosfet?
2019-08-06T22:11:54 < rajkosto> yes
2019-08-06T22:12:07 < rajkosto> sot-23-3 one
2019-08-06T22:12:11 < antto> shizzle
2019-08-06T22:12:18 < antto> who gon solder all these?
2019-08-06T22:12:29 < rajkosto> same guy who solders the led, resistor
2019-08-06T22:12:37 < antto> x_x
2019-08-06T22:12:42 < rajkosto> leds are the most finnicky anyway
2019-08-06T22:12:46 < rajkosto> everything else is cake
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2019-08-06T22:13:19 < antto> so, you say.. a mosfet+resistor per segment?
2019-08-06T22:13:39 < rajkosto> how many gpio you have
2019-08-06T22:13:52 < antto> i've put a smol xmega here ;P~
2019-08-06T22:14:17 < antto> that tqfp44 thang
2019-08-06T22:15:29 < antto> hm, i also wanna measure ambient temperature
2019-08-06T22:15:54 < antto> i mean room temperature, roughly
2019-08-06T22:18:36 < Steffanx> then i would add all segments on the bottom for sure
2019-08-06T22:18:59 < antto> nah.. too many
2019-08-06T22:19:02 < Steffanx> You can also go the multiplex road.
2019-08-06T22:19:16 < antto> that means scanning each char
2019-08-06T22:19:17 < antto> nooooooo
2019-08-06T22:19:23 < antto> moar flick0r
2019-08-06T22:19:28 < Steffanx> lolno.
2019-08-06T22:19:42 < antto> <shattered_eyeballz.jpg>
2019-08-06T22:19:43 < Steffanx> ooh, xmega. Yeah. flicker you have.
2019-08-06T22:21:46 < antto> "the following clock contains flashing visuals and much bling"
2019-08-06T22:22:57 < Steffanx> like you'll see the flicker.
2019-08-06T22:23:07 < Steffanx> if you use a proper freq.
2019-08-06T22:23:35 < antto> if it's gonna be scanning - i got 14 chars, bruh
2019-08-06T22:23:58 < antto> the scanning sh*t is also gonna affect my max brightness
2019-08-06T22:24:12 < Steffanx> increase the current a bit.
2019-08-06T22:24:22 < antto> these are 0805 leds
2019-08-06T22:24:29 < Steffanx> if you use proper leds they are hellish bright anyway. 
2019-08-06T22:24:37 < salcedo> n-gate.com (use elinks unless you want to go blind)
2019-08-06T22:25:07 < antto> the green ones imma put are bright, we use em at teh job and i love their color
2019-08-06T22:26:11 < antto> https://datasheet.octopart.com/OSG50805C1E-OptoSupply-datasheet-34431184.pdf
2019-08-06T22:26:19 < antto> the "true green" one
2019-08-06T22:27:22 < bitmask> what led driver are you using
2019-08-06T22:27:32 < antto> cat4016
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2019-08-06T22:28:38 < bitmask> is that like a tlc5940/47
2019-08-06T22:28:59 < bitmask> I was looking for alternatives
2019-08-06T22:29:33 < bitmask> are they pwm or just constant on/off
2019-08-06T22:29:36 < antto> hm, no, that thing looks fancier
2019-08-06T22:29:52 < bitmask> oh ok those are just on or off
2019-08-06T22:30:06 < antto> this is just sorta like a 16bit shift register that drives leds to ground
2019-08-06T22:30:10 < bitmask> gotcha
2019-08-06T22:30:40 < antto> i've not used it before
2019-08-06T22:31:12 < antto> i was octoparting hard to figure out what driver to use and this is the "latest" choice i made
2019-08-06T22:31:39 < bitmask> yea its hard to choose stuff like that
2019-08-06T22:32:17 < antto> before that i had just 14 shift regs (595) and i was driving the LEDs high, so their other legs were conveniently all tied to GND
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2019-08-06T22:32:23 < antto> but.. this had to go now
2019-08-06T22:33:51 < Steffanx> hm
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2019-08-06T23:08:56 < kakimir> evenings dear
2019-08-06T23:09:10 < kakimir> work day is complete
2019-08-06T23:10:25 < Steffanx> Welcome kakimir
2019-08-06T23:10:30 < Steffanx> What did you do today
2019-08-06T23:10:37 < kakimir> welcome steff
2019-08-06T23:10:51 < kakimir> I did hay
2019-08-06T23:10:59 < Steffanx> oh the farmer life.
2019-08-06T23:13:16 -!- qyx [~qyx@gw2.krtko.org] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-06T23:14:34 < kakimir> 6530 premium + krone zx 450 gl
2019-08-06T23:14:49 < kakimir> only 14 hours today
2019-08-06T23:17:42 < salcedo> https://postimg.cc/bGCNMdCB
2019-08-06T23:17:58 < salcedo> switched to hipster.css
2019-08-06T23:18:01 < salcedo> err spectre
2019-08-06T23:25:00 < kakimir> you definitelly need web access to your reflow oven
2019-08-06T23:25:36 < kakimir> kinda reminds me of ideas I had for oven controller
2019-08-06T23:25:41 < kakimir> but local pc program
2019-08-06T23:25:45 < BrainDamage> reflow oven recycled as edibles bakery
2019-08-06T23:26:01 < kakimir> to say my oven size fits a motorcycle chassis
2019-08-06T23:27:25 < kakimir> it's for hot coats
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2019-08-06T23:33:18 < jadew> salcedo, I think I'll make a reflow controller too
2019-08-06T23:33:36 < jadew> was just thinking about it today
2019-08-06T23:33:44 < salcedo> lelz
2019-08-06T23:33:46 < salcedo> are you in US?
2019-08-06T23:34:07 < salcedo> i'm going to have extras because jlcpcb minimum order is 5 boards
2019-08-06T23:34:16 < salcedo> will ship
2019-08-06T23:34:16 < jadew> so far I've been controlling my oven directly from the PC (I already have it wired with SSRs)
2019-08-06T23:35:11 < jadew> I've been very lazy regarding this project
2019-08-06T23:35:33 < kakimir> using controllable line from RS232?
2019-08-06T23:35:36 < jadew> my latest idea was to skip the controller entirely and just add an ethernet connector
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2019-08-06T23:35:41 < kakimir> to turn it on and off?
2019-08-06T23:36:00 < jadew> kakimir, the SSRs were connected directly to a lab power supply
2019-08-06T23:36:05 < jadew> and I was turning that on and off
2019-08-06T23:36:09 < kakimir> oh
2019-08-06T23:36:14 < kakimir> how about feedback?
2019-08-06T23:36:22 < salcedo> jadew: the one i am working on uses wemos d1 mini
2019-08-06T23:36:25 < jadew> via the DMM :D
2019-08-06T23:36:35 < salcedo> the first one had an oled display and buttons but i decided they're pointless
2019-08-06T23:36:57 < salcedo> so this one is just d1 mini driving fets to switch on the relays.
2019-08-06T23:36:58 < kakimir> jadew: it's perfectly fine
2019-08-06T23:37:14 < kakimir> as long as you have dedicated accesories
2019-08-06T23:37:16 < salcedo> it has 4 outputs for relays/fans/whatever and a max31856 for a thermocouple
2019-08-06T23:37:39 < jadew> kakimir, yeah, it worked great so far
2019-08-06T23:37:51 < kakimir> don't change it
2019-08-06T23:38:23 < jadew> kakimir, it's a little inconvenient because of all the cables
2019-08-06T23:38:43 < kakimir> play with the cables until it's okay
2019-08-06T23:39:31 < salcedo> this one is small. has 4 holes for standoffs
2019-08-06T23:39:34 < jadew> salcedo, the d1 mini is an ESP breakout board?
2019-08-06T23:39:36 < salcedo> my plan is to mount it right on the oven
2019-08-06T23:39:53 < salcedo> yea esp8266
2019-08-06T23:40:20 < salcedo> has enough flash memory to store a bunch of javashit
2019-08-06T23:40:40 < salcedo> so my plan is to control it completely via web browser. even have the ability to CRUD reflow profiles
2019-08-06T23:41:07 < jadew> not a bad idea
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2019-08-06T23:42:15 < salcedo> if you're not in US and you want to build it, i have the warez on git
2019-08-06T23:42:54 < jadew> I'm not in the US, I think I'll go for something more classic tho
2019-08-06T23:42:57 < salcedo> total BOM cost on digikey was about $13 per
2019-08-06T23:43:06 < salcedo> that includes standoffs and stuff
2019-08-06T23:43:08 < jadew> but I like the fact wifi idea
2019-08-06T23:43:16 < salcedo> and d1 mini's are like $3
2019-08-06T23:43:26 < jadew> I should get some of those
2019-08-06T23:44:28 < salcedo> you can have wifi + ble using esp32
2019-08-06T23:44:57 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGQrsSEaZkI
2019-08-06T23:45:05 < bitmask> d1 mini's are my goto
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2019-08-06T23:46:59 < salcedo> https://postimg.cc/t7p33c0v
2019-08-06T23:48:56 < kakimir> nice
2019-08-06T23:51:53 < Cracki> wew capacitive touch in 1984
2019-08-06T23:52:02 < zyp> it's kinda surprising that on a super fancy machine controlled by a fancy PLC with remote terminals and stuff, the software for operating it is super shitty
2019-08-06T23:52:16 < zyp> and this is a production grade machine, not a development experiment
2019-08-06T23:52:23 < Cracki> what software do you refer to
2019-08-06T23:52:51 < zyp> well, the HMI stuff it's running
2019-08-06T23:53:10 < Cracki> oh that
2019-08-06T23:53:41 < zyp> I mean, I don't have experience with much PLC-controlled stuff, but so far I'm not impressed
2019-08-06T23:54:02 < Cracki> guess what, for the superfancy (not really) surgery robot they are working on software for here, I'm planning to do a python+tkinter gui because that's nice and shit and somebody else can make it pretty
2019-08-06T23:54:27 < Cracki> as long as the control part runs rock solid, which it will, I'm content
2019-08-06T23:54:34 < zyp> haha, why not pyqt?
2019-08-06T23:54:36 < salcedo> but in reality, they'll consider your tkinter mock-up the finished product and people will pay $450,000 per unit for it.
2019-08-06T23:54:48 < qyx> tkinter wut
2019-08-06T23:54:50 < Cracki> because CBA to explain to these people how to install that
2019-08-06T23:54:55 < qyx> are you from the past
2019-08-06T23:54:58 < Cracki> (pip install ... but meh)
2019-08-06T23:55:05 < zyp> for the stuff I'm working on, I've hacked up a bunch of GUIs with pyqt
2019-08-06T23:55:06 < salcedo> "what's pip?"
2019-08-06T23:55:11 < Cracki> I want it to look shit, so people MAYBE replace it
2019-08-06T23:55:17 < zyp> install what?
2019-08-06T23:55:21 < Cracki> pyqt
2019-08-06T23:55:26 < salcedo> Cracki: do it in EEEEELEEECTTTTRROOONNNNN
2019-08-06T23:55:36 < Cracki> get sodomized by a badger
2019-08-06T23:55:49 < zyp> I don't think I had to do anything other than pip install pyqt
2019-08-06T23:55:57 < Cracki> we're already using json for simple data exchange
2019-08-06T23:56:00 < salcedo> badgers wouldn't dare step to me. i have a rake.
2019-08-06T23:56:05 < Cracki> these days you do pip install pyside2
2019-08-06T23:56:11 < Cracki> which is the official qt5 bindings for python
2019-08-06T23:56:15 < zyp> and it's not like it matters anyway, when I've made it I just use pyinstaller to bundle everything in a self-contained .exe
2019-08-06T23:56:38 < Cracki> pyinstaller collects all the DLLs and gives you hundred megs of stuff or something
2019-08-06T23:56:54 < Cracki> at least it does if you have pyqt with opengl and webengine and ... all that
2019-08-06T23:57:02 < zyp> IIRC the last one I made ended up being 17MB
2019-08-06T23:57:14 < Cracki> maybe they've improved... and only bundle what's really used
2019-08-06T23:57:28 < zyp> and IDGAF, this is 2019, who cares
2019-08-06T23:57:31 < Cracki> :P
2019-08-06T23:57:46 < qyx> I used pyinstaller with qt too and it wasn't 100MB
2019-08-06T23:58:16 < Cracki> allow me https://python-forum.io/Thread-PySide2-with-QtQuick-pyInstaller-big-executeable
2019-08-06T23:58:31 < zyp> it's easier to tell coworker to grab a 17MB .exe and doubleclick it than to tell him what dependencies to install to get shit working
2019-08-06T23:58:33 < Cracki> maybe that's just for pyqt on windows, who knows
2019-08-06T23:58:40 < Cracki> I agree with that
2019-08-06T23:58:50 < salcedo> your coworkers aren't developers?
2019-08-06T23:58:59 < Cracki> which is why I think I'll have either java or c# gui programming in my future...
2019-08-06T23:59:12 < zyp> salcedo, in what sense of the word?
2019-08-06T23:59:21 < salcedo> software?
2019-08-06T23:59:39 < zyp> depends what you count as developing, I'm the only one doing python
2019-08-06T23:59:44 < salcedo> oh
2019-08-06T23:59:51 < salcedo> makes sense
2019-08-06T23:59:53 < zyp> also the only one doing C
--- Day changed Wed Aug 07 2019
2019-08-07T00:00:15 < salcedo> i've only over once had to ship a python thing for windows
2019-08-07T00:00:16 < Cracki> what do the others do, if not C and python?
2019-08-07T00:00:30 < salcedo> and it was super ghetto
2019-08-07T00:00:43 < zyp> coworker mainly does matlab/simulink, which generates a C blob that I'm building a platform under and around
2019-08-07T00:01:23 < Cracki> nice
2019-08-07T00:01:31 < zyp> and then I have another couple of coworkers that doesn't develop at all
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2019-08-07T00:01:38 < zyp> e.g. the mechanical designer
2019-08-07T00:01:44 < Cracki> using simulink to generate code is still on my to-do list
2019-08-07T00:02:03 < zyp> eh, IMO it's pretty shit
2019-08-07T00:02:27 < Cracki> if the customer wouldn't realize four weeks before every fair that they suddenly want a whole new product in time, and then forget about it again for a year
2019-08-07T00:03:11 < Cracki> I have high hopes for simulink being easier to express state machines in, because graphical. I can get the customer to look at it, and it's less error prone
2019-08-07T00:03:15 < zyp> it gets the job done, but I feel it's kinda inflexible and inefficient
2019-08-07T00:03:59 < zyp> e.g. everything happens at a given cycle interval
2019-08-07T00:04:35 < zyp> which is good for a lot of stuff, but kinda inconvenient when you need to do something else
2019-08-07T00:04:47 < Cracki> rtos?
2019-08-07T00:05:16 < Cracki> one task that keeps running the loop (at the right frequency), "something else" done elsewhere?
2019-08-07T00:05:26 < zyp> yeah, doing that
2019-08-07T00:05:44 < Cracki> I don't see what more one could want
2019-08-07T00:06:05 < Cracki> the control loop stuff I get to do also runs at a fixed frequency
2019-08-07T00:06:15 < zyp> well, all the simulink stuff is done in one task
2019-08-07T00:06:36 < zyp> so anything that needs to be done outside the control loop must be implemented outside simulink
2019-08-07T00:06:57 < Cracki> "needs to"?
2019-08-07T00:07:19 < zyp> well, to give an example
2019-08-07T00:07:36 < zyp> coworker has some code that calculates a bunch of shit during initialization
2019-08-07T00:08:08 < zyp> at the moment that is implemented as a separate blob that I run for three cycles before starting the main blob
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2019-08-07T00:09:09 < Cracki> sounds tolerable
2019-08-07T00:09:25 < Cracki> except I'd expect it to be run once, unless it needs three cycles
2019-08-07T00:11:02 < zyp> well, there's a third blob too
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2019-08-07T00:11:36 < zyp> there's the init blob and then there's an input preprocessing blob, and they depend on some of the outputs of each other
2019-08-07T00:12:11 < Cracki> aha!
2019-08-07T00:12:33 < zyp> so it's sort of a chicken and egg problem, so I have to run them a couple of times so they both can generate outputs based on sane inputs
2019-08-07T00:12:53 < zyp> and then the preprocessing blob and the main blob keeps running after that
2019-08-07T00:13:03 < Cracki> heh. I'd expect matlab to know some sane initial values for these signals
2019-08-07T00:13:18 < zyp> they are dynamic
2019-08-07T00:13:36 < Cracki> or the matlab side of things is *expected* to see strange values and work with them properly
2019-08-07T00:14:08 < Cracki> curious. I'd have thought it would spit out one "step function" and one init function, and that does everything
2019-08-07T00:14:43 < zyp> that's what it does, but I don't think we've figured out to tell simulink that this code should be invoked by the init function :)
2019-08-07T00:15:09 < zyp> and I'm not sure that would work either
2019-08-07T00:15:10 < Cracki> heh
2019-08-07T00:15:36 < zyp> the init function clears the input variables, so I suspect it can't do anything with dynamic inputs
2019-08-07T00:16:14 < Cracki> so... you need it to *not* clear some variables?
2019-08-07T00:16:47 < Cracki> otherwise I have no idea why an init function would get any kind of dynamic inputs, apart from inputs it gets once
2019-08-07T00:17:01 < zyp> but yeah, I'm sure we could have improved a lot by having somebody with a software developer perspective (i.e. me) go over the simulink code and restructure it
2019-08-07T00:17:27 < zyp> well
2019-08-07T00:17:50 < zyp> the init blob gets a list of encoder inputs, i.e. angles
2019-08-07T00:18:04 < zyp> and uses that to generate a bunch of lookup tables
2019-08-07T00:20:14 < Cracki> aha!
2019-08-07T00:20:25 < zyp> I've got six hydraulic motors with five cylinders each driving a common load, the generated lookup tables contains stuff like the relative angle of each cylinder relative to the first
2019-08-07T00:20:57 < Cracki> sounds fun :)
2019-08-07T00:21:41 < Cracki> im beginning to see why you need input preprocessing... probably something to subtract initial angles to get same angles
2019-08-07T00:22:06 < zyp> no, the input processing block is a block that sanity checks the encoders
2019-08-07T00:22:55 < zyp> if an encoder deviates from where it should be, the value is ignored and estimated based on the others instead
2019-08-07T00:23:47 < zyp> so that block depends on the init block that knows what the encoder offsets should be, but the init block also depends on some of the preprocessing that block does
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2019-08-07T00:53:24 < karlp> mrus: never used freertos on aanything commercial, just done a few demos, wrote a few test projects in a few OSs to try and comapre them, currently planning on using freertos for next work.
2019-08-07T00:53:47 < karlp> just trying out zephyr a bit though, but right now just ran into "#error "Choose supported PWM driver" for stm32f4, so... that's not promising.
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2019-08-07T01:13:58 < karlp> ticket filed for bustage in 2017 https://github.com/zephyrproject-rtos/zephyr/issues/4760 super quality
2019-08-07T01:14:53 < karlp> I have the "wrong" f4 board for it to be working on.
2019-08-07T01:15:01 < zyp> haha
2019-08-07T01:15:11 < karlp> this feels like platformio, we have 1000000 boards, but if you'r enot using the "right" one, it doesn't really mean much
2019-08-07T01:15:28 < zyp> I think that was the impression I also got when I looked at zephyr
2019-08-07T01:16:15 < Ultrasauce> Hardware Accretion Layer
2019-08-07T01:16:51 < karlp> fuck me, the amount someone had to touch to add it to jsut one other f4 board does _not_ inspire confidence
2019-08-07T01:16:55 < karlp> https://github.com/zephyrproject-rtos/zephyr/pull/4824/files
2019-08-07T01:18:00 < zyp> and it's all just bullshit edits, nice
2019-08-07T01:21:05 < karlp> "newer" style doesn't touch as much, but my f429zi board files already have these edits: https://github.com/zephyrproject-rtos/zephyr/pull/6060/files
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2019-08-07T01:36:18 < karlp> hrm, zephyr testusb loads up ok, but pyusb gets upset because "the device has no langid"
2019-08-07T01:36:51 < karlp> ahh, that's gonna be permissions
2019-08-07T01:48:37 < karlp> somewhhat unsurpsrisingly, the libopencm3 gadget0 tests cause the zephyr stack to lock up.
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2019-08-07T02:01:27 < karlp> heh, they have usb drivers for "stm32" 8all of them) and also for "designware" as separate items
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2019-08-07T02:25:37 < karlp> nice. self.dev.set_configuration(self.cfg) kills zephyr's usb stack.
2019-08-07T02:26:51 < karlp> apparently tyhis is a common usb problem, but locm3 just handles it.
2019-08-07T02:41:09 < jadew> yey \o/ I had an epiphany about 2 weeks ago that basically killed two of my projects, because I realized I could do it much better (I was waiting for the final revision of the boards at the time)
2019-08-07T02:41:20 < jadew> was kinda bummed and didn't even want to look at the boards since I got them
2019-08-07T02:41:47 < jadew> decided to start designing based on that epiphany and it turns out I was wrong :D
2019-08-07T02:42:54 < jadew> don't think I've ever been happy for being wrong about an idea
2019-08-07T02:43:03 < jadew> a design idea
2019-08-07T02:46:28 < Cracki> lol
2019-08-07T02:46:37 < Cracki> glad it worked out
2019-08-07T02:47:05 < jadew> yeah, me too, I feel relieved that I don't have to start over
2019-08-07T02:47:48 < jadew> problem is I don't have enough money in my company's bank account to order more enclosures :/
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2019-08-07T02:48:00 < Laurenceb> sheeet now I'm in jail
2019-08-07T02:48:08 < jadew> Laurenceb, this is jail?
2019-08-07T02:48:24 < Laurenceb> nah but I will be soon
2019-08-07T02:48:30 < Laurenceb> I loaded 8chan using zeronet
2019-08-07T02:48:57 < Laurenceb> zeronetters had filled it with cheese pizza
2019-08-07T02:49:08 < jadew> what's the deal with 8 chan? it got blocked or something?
2019-08-07T02:49:23 < Laurenceb> 2008 4chan tier
2019-08-07T02:49:32 < Laurenceb> jadew: ddos protection got shut down
2019-08-07T02:49:55 < jadew> sounds like a publicity stunt
2019-08-07T02:50:33 < BrainDamage> jadew: https://new.blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/
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2019-08-07T02:51:05 < Laurenceb> I sure hope the zeronet cache is encrypted
2019-08-07T02:51:21 < BrainDamage> the local cache shouldn't
2019-08-07T02:51:29 < BrainDamage> otherwise, how could you access it?
2019-08-07T02:51:30 < Laurenceb> yeah I wiped that
2019-08-07T02:51:43 < Laurenceb> but there is the bittorrent type cache thingy
2019-08-07T02:52:29 < Laurenceb> I didnt actually load any images, just read that the cheese pizza was being used to trigger the qboomers epic style
2019-08-07T02:52:33 < Laurenceb> based if true tbh
2019-08-07T02:52:41 < jadew> so... they take it down because people talk freely?
2019-08-07T02:53:23 < Laurenceb> yes, promoting zeronet in the process
2019-08-07T02:53:28 < Laurenceb> which is full of pedos
2019-08-07T02:53:43 < jadew> wouldn't it be better to just have the police follow it?
2019-08-07T02:54:19 < Laurenceb> probably, although some of the 8chan moderators are asses who encourage shit
2019-08-07T02:54:37 < jadew> it's better to know when something happens, than have polite discussions and no warning for such actions
2019-08-07T02:54:39 < Laurenceb> but thats where it is pretty ironic what Brennan is saying, when he was a mod of baphomet
2019-08-07T02:55:00 < Laurenceb> a pure psycho board
2019-08-07T02:55:44 < Laurenceb> I just want my britbong cartoons board back
2019-08-07T02:56:27 < Laurenceb> Norf FC, Chantelle, and Deano ftw
2019-08-07T02:56:41 < jadew> if I was a cop, I'd see forums like that as a gift
2019-08-07T02:57:13 < jadew> a place where all the psychopaths gather... what more can you ask?
2019-08-07T02:57:41 < jadew> if you force them deeper into encryption land, it's not doing anyone any good
2019-08-07T02:57:57 < jadew> they'll still be psychopaths, but nobody will have any warning
2019-08-07T02:58:21 < Laurenceb> https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1445286-norf-fc
2019-08-07T02:59:02 < Laurenceb> >kids in kebab 
2019-08-07T02:59:04 < Laurenceb> my sides
2019-08-07T03:00:30 < Laurenceb> its funny because its true
2019-08-07T03:01:06 < salcedo> why are you worried about them going deeper into encryption land?
2019-08-07T03:01:15 < salcedo> australia already passed laws
2019-08-07T03:01:22 < salcedo> US is about to pass them
2019-08-07T03:01:24 < Laurenceb> >banning maths
2019-08-07T03:01:33 < salcedo> no more "warrant-proof" encryption
2019-08-07T03:01:45 < Laurenceb> good luck with that
2019-08-07T03:01:48 < mawk> lol
2019-08-07T03:01:52 < mawk> yeah, banning maths
2019-08-07T03:02:02 < salcedo> you think they won't succeed in banning maths?
2019-08-07T03:02:06 < salcedo> of course they will
2019-08-07T03:02:14 < salcedo> that doesn't mean the maths will stop
2019-08-07T03:02:14 < Laurenceb> I wonder how much of the CJD was caused by kids in kebabs
2019-08-07T03:02:23 < mawk> encryption can be very simple
2019-08-07T03:02:34 < mawk> you can't stop the propagation of an algorithm a 12 years old can understand
2019-08-07T03:02:57 < salcedo> the US will ban warrant-proof encryptino
2019-08-07T03:03:09 < BrainDamage> you can do OTP keys trivially, even by hand
2019-08-07T03:03:13 < salcedo> and the ISPs will enforce it by NPCifying the internet into walled gardens
2019-08-07T03:03:33 < salcedo> it will be 1990's AOL/compuserve shit all over again
2019-08-07T03:03:41 < BrainDamage> a SD card has actually enough OTP data for centuries of text communication
2019-08-07T03:04:15 < BrainDamage> and let's not forget steganography
2019-08-07T03:04:26 < salcedo> it's not going to happen
2019-08-07T03:04:37 < BrainDamage> the best part is that every single tech expert says it's a bad idea
2019-08-07T03:04:46 < mawk> take two primes p q, call n = pq, call φ(n) = (p-1)(q-1), take a number e coprime to φ(n) and < φ(n), compute d = e⁻¹ mod φ(n)
2019-08-07T03:04:52 < mawk> you've got enough to encrypt and decrypt
2019-08-07T03:04:54 < MrMobius> BrainDamage, trivial point but humans are not good sources of random numbers when you ask them to generate them by hand
2019-08-07T03:04:56 < salcedo> all of the people who have the capability to implement decentralized warrant-proof encryption and steganography are fucking NPCs. it's not going to happen.
2019-08-07T03:05:09 < salcedo> rubber hose always wins
2019-08-07T03:05:17 < BrainDamage> MrMobius: sure, but rng can be built easily
2019-08-07T03:05:23 < MrMobius> ya
2019-08-07T03:06:02 < jadew> yeah, there's no way to stop encryption
2019-08-07T03:06:14 < salcedo> any platform/service/piece of code that defies the encryption laws about to be passed will simply be removed and anyone who persists will be taken out.
2019-08-07T03:06:28 < BrainDamage> any public one
2019-08-07T03:06:29 < mawk> tor is still alive in iran
2019-08-07T03:06:36 < mawk> using hidden bridges
2019-08-07T03:06:51 < BrainDamage> steganography bypasses laws
2019-08-07T03:07:00 < BrainDamage> simply because you cannot ban what you can't see
2019-08-07T03:07:08 < salcedo> yep.
2019-08-07T03:07:17 < salcedo> post stego to microsoft github
2019-08-07T03:07:27 < salcedo> we're going to have "stego" and "crypto"
2019-08-07T03:10:17 < jadew> thing is, if they lower encryption strength by law, they will automatically expose you to danger (from other non-gov parties)
2019-08-07T03:10:18 < jadew> like random hackers
2019-08-07T03:10:24 < BrainDamage> or by inserting a backdoor, you're inserting a vulnerability shared by many computers, if that fails, you get a catastrophic scenario
2019-08-07T03:10:26 < salcedo> it will be labeled as subversive but it won't be legit.
2019-08-07T03:10:26 < salcedo> BrainDamage: awesome idea of OTP on sd card :)
2019-08-07T03:10:27 < salcedo> especially on stm32
2019-08-07T03:10:27 < salcedo> xor way faster than running a block cipher
2019-08-07T03:10:27 < salcedo> and there's no way to fuck up the implementation
2019-08-07T03:12:39 < mawk> it has its own technical challenges
2019-08-07T03:12:44 < salcedo> jadew: they wouldn't lower the encryption strength by law.
2019-08-07T03:12:55 < jadew> salcedo, they're already doing that
2019-08-07T03:12:56 < BrainDamage> the major problem with OTP is the RNG strength
2019-08-07T03:13:03 < mawk> yes
2019-08-07T03:13:06 < salcedo> jadew: which law is that?
2019-08-07T03:13:07 < BrainDamage> and code syncronization
2019-08-07T03:13:23 < mawk> code synchronization could be settled by scanning if you lose track of packet number I guess BrainDamage 
2019-08-07T03:13:32 < mawk> just add a preamble like 0b101010101010101010 to every packet
2019-08-07T03:13:40 < mawk> and just slide the mask on the data to find the preamble
2019-08-07T03:13:43 < mawk> if you ever lose track
2019-08-07T03:13:48 < jadew> salcedo, you are not allowed to sell equipment that has stronger encryption than <some particular value>
2019-08-07T03:13:59 < mawk> in france 2048 bits RSA is illegal I think
2019-08-07T03:14:03 < jadew> there are laws in some countries in the EU too
2019-08-07T03:14:06 < jadew> yes
2019-08-07T03:14:09 < jadew> like france and the uk
2019-08-07T03:14:11 < salcedo> i don't think US has any such law
2019-08-07T03:14:14 < mawk> and not giving the key to the cops is 2 years of prison or something
2019-08-07T03:14:17 < salcedo> the export laws no longer apply
2019-08-07T03:14:17 < BrainDamage> that sounds insane
2019-08-07T03:14:17 < jadew> salcedo, lol
2019-08-07T03:14:35 < BrainDamage> pretty sure most web site certs are 2048 bit rsa
2019-08-07T03:14:35 < jadew> salcedo, oh, it doesn't?
2019-08-07T03:14:43 < catphish> there's no laws against strong encryption in the uk
2019-08-07T03:14:47 < jadew> cuz I had to sign one of those encryption things just two weeks ago
2019-08-07T03:14:52 < catphish> the US used to forbid its export
2019-08-07T03:14:54 < mawk> yeah BrainDamage 
2019-08-07T03:15:01 < salcedo> BrainDamage: there's nothing stopping me from using a 4096 bit rsa cert
2019-08-07T03:15:04 < mawk> french law makers are a bit lost on that "technology" thing
2019-08-07T03:15:05 < jadew> catphish, I've read it
2019-08-07T03:15:10 < mawk> they wanted to ban hypertext links once
2019-08-07T03:15:14 < mawk> like, html <a>
2019-08-07T03:15:20 < jadew> I'll have to dig it up at some point, because it seems to keep coming up
2019-08-07T03:15:22 < mawk> because this elicits piracy or something
2019-08-07T03:15:28 < salcedo> there's no law in the US that stops people from doing that. if there was, letsencrypt would be breaking the law signing 4096 bit certs
2019-08-07T03:15:33 < catphish> jadew: if you read that the uk banned strong encryption, you read wrong
2019-08-07T03:15:45 < BrainDamage> pretty sure most governments can mandate you to give up your keys
2019-08-07T03:15:54 < mawk> yes BrainDamage , but you can refuse
2019-08-07T03:15:56 < mawk> and go to jail instead
2019-08-07T03:16:10 < jadew> catphish, they banned selling software/equipment that can do strong encryption, I hope I'm not confusing the country, but I'm pretty sure it was the UK
2019-08-07T03:16:12 < mawk> it's a good idea if what they would discover would give you more jail than the 2 years for not giving keys
2019-08-07T03:16:17 < BrainDamage> just make a system that self destructs the key and provide proof of destruction
2019-08-07T03:16:28 < BrainDamage> so that you're physically incapable to
2019-08-07T03:16:30 < catphish> jadew: nope, completely legal here, even for consumers
2019-08-07T03:16:30 < mawk> there is also the veracrypt plausible deniability
2019-08-07T03:16:39 < catphish> see whatsapp, etc
2019-08-07T03:16:40 < mawk> with the recursive encrypted disk
2019-08-07T03:16:45 < jadew> catphish, ok, give me a sec to see if I can find anything in my bookmarks on this
2019-08-07T03:16:46 < mawk> depending on the passphrase you give it opens a different disk
2019-08-07T03:17:04 < BrainDamage> yes, altough many people seems to confuse the "plausible" part
2019-08-07T03:17:06 < jadew> I researched the subject because I wanted to do something encryption related and after reading about all this crap I just gave up
2019-08-07T03:17:13 < mawk> so like you put shameful tranny porn on the fake disk, and top secret docs on the real disk
2019-08-07T03:17:25 < catphish> jadew: i host a lot of TLS and i use the best available encryption, the only downside is the police can force you to provide keys (for existing data) if they're looking for something specific
2019-08-07T03:17:42 < mawk> what do you mean give the keys catphish ?
2019-08-07T03:17:44 < mawk> TLS has PFS
2019-08-07T03:17:45 < mawk> no ?
2019-08-07T03:17:49 < mawk> with session keys
2019-08-07T03:17:52 < rajkosto> how can you provide keys when perfect forward secrecy is used
2019-08-07T03:18:08 < BrainDamage> do you have to store the session keys?
2019-08-07T03:18:12 < catphish> well sure, if you don't have the keys, you can't provide them, its more for data at rest
2019-08-07T03:18:23 < catphish> mawk: like hard drive encryption
2019-08-07T03:18:27 < mawk> in france no BrainDamage , not that I know of
2019-08-07T03:18:33 < mawk> I have to store logs for 1 year or something
2019-08-07T03:18:45 < salcedo> lolwtf
2019-08-07T03:18:46 < mawk> but the EU reglementation gives no lower limit for the logs storage, so the law conflicts
2019-08-07T03:18:53 < salcedo> fuck the EU
2019-08-07T03:19:02 < jadew> catphish, can't find the resource I read and google yields lots of new results for anything related to encryption laws
2019-08-07T03:19:03 < mawk> and EU law has precedence on national law, so theoretically keeping logs 15 days is fine
2019-08-07T03:19:11 < mawk> but cops were still mad at me for keeping them only 15 days
2019-08-07T03:19:13 < jadew> if I'll find the document I read, I'll give you a link
2019-08-07T03:19:21 < salcedo> i bet 90% of people who use encryption in the EU defy that shit
2019-08-07T03:19:25 < mawk> use the google feature to give older results jadew 
2019-08-07T03:19:38 < BrainDamage> EU doesn't have anything against encryption
2019-08-07T03:19:56 < catphish> generally, EU law is replaced at the national level anyway
2019-08-07T03:20:03 < mawk> what do you mean replaced catphish ?
2019-08-07T03:20:07 < mawk> EU law is stronger than national law
2019-08-07T03:20:14 < catphish> it really isn't
2019-08-07T03:20:20 < mawk> why ?
2019-08-07T03:20:20 < BrainDamage> the EU law is implemented by the individual countries taking the EU law and making their own
2019-08-07T03:20:34 < BrainDamage> if the country doesn't, it's not automatically accepted
2019-08-07T03:20:35 < jadew> catphish, looks like you're right, the UK doesn't have any such legislation
2019-08-07T03:20:38 < catphish> most eu law is implemeted by national law, which has to meet minimum specificatiokns
2019-08-07T03:20:39 < jadew> maybe it was just france?
2019-08-07T03:20:44 < salcedo> BrainDamage: rofl
2019-08-07T03:20:47 < mawk> that depends on the type of law BrainDamage 
2019-08-07T03:20:53 < salcedo> BrainDamage: that's a really round about way of saying the EU's law takes precedence.
2019-08-07T03:20:55 < mawk> but yeah if you translate it in national law yeah
2019-08-07T03:20:56 < mawk> but it has to match
2019-08-07T03:20:59 < salcedo> also
2019-08-07T03:21:06 < salcedo> if the EU actually enforced that
2019-08-07T03:21:09 < BrainDamage> it doesn't, unless it's disputed
2019-08-07T03:21:21 < BrainDamage> now, if you want, you can appeal to a tribunal to have a law that hasn't been implemented
2019-08-07T03:21:25 < salcedo> all UK would have had to do to brexit would have been to say "nope. not implementing your laws"
2019-08-07T03:21:30 < salcedo> and what would the EU do then? nothing.
2019-08-07T03:21:37 < mawk> for EU directives yes I guess BrainDamage 
2019-08-07T03:21:40 < salcedo> which would show the hypocrisy of the EU
2019-08-07T03:21:43 < mawk> but for regulations it's different
2019-08-07T03:21:46 < BrainDamage> if you fail to implement certail laws, you get sanctions
2019-08-07T03:21:51 < mawk> it applies immediately in the whole EU without national translation
2019-08-07T03:22:19 < catphish> yeah regulations are indeed different, but aren't really laws, they can't prosecute people
2019-08-07T03:22:28 < BrainDamage> salcedo: I don't think you realize the consequences of eg, being banned from the EU common market
2019-08-07T03:22:29 < catphish> they are just "rules"
2019-08-07T03:22:37 < salcedo> because the EU is an unelected body of dynastic old-wealth power elites who have been inbreeding for so many centuries they all look like fucking chunk from the goonies.
2019-08-07T03:22:39 < catphish> they would apply to civil law i guess
2019-08-07T03:23:09 < catphish> huh? the eu is a group of countries
2019-08-07T03:23:22 < BrainDamage> salcedo: I don't think you know how the EU works at all
2019-08-07T03:23:22 < catphish> with leadership direcly elected by the member states
2019-08-07T03:23:34 < BrainDamage> especially given the previous comments
2019-08-07T03:23:37 < salcedo> BrainDamage: i'm not talking about how the EU works. i'm talking about what the EU is.
2019-08-07T03:23:37 < mawk> then after appeal then higher court you could go to the EU court catphish 
2019-08-07T03:23:40 < mawk> and win your case
2019-08-07T03:23:47 < catphish> clearly not, you make i sound like a monarchy lol
2019-08-07T03:23:50 < mawk> in case of a national law mismatch with regulation
2019-08-07T03:24:23 < mawk> well the EU commission isn't really elected
2019-08-07T03:24:36 < mawk> and the EU member of parliament are just there to vote the commission texts, not really propose texts
2019-08-07T03:24:37 < catphish> aren't they appoined by MEPs ultimately?
2019-08-07T03:24:43 < BrainDamage> as opposed to an unelected body of dynasty old-wealth power elites who have been controlling the country economically for so many centuries?
2019-08-07T03:24:55 < BrainDamage> granted, no inbreeding
2019-08-07T03:24:57 < catphish> BrainDamage: lol
2019-08-07T03:25:02 < mawk> yeah in theory catphish 
2019-08-07T03:25:12 < mawk> but the candidates are proposed by the europe council
2019-08-07T03:25:34 < mawk> if the candidate is not approved then the council can present a new candidate
2019-08-07T03:25:35 < salcedo> how the EU works: put all the countries under one law, currency, mix all the races up (kalergi plan) to dumb them down into serfs.
2019-08-07T03:25:55 < BrainDamage> except the law is decided by the contries themselves
2019-08-07T03:26:09 < catphish> anyway, i don't know the details, only that laws are implemented nationally, and regulations aren't, i guess they'd be considered "law" but not "statute"
2019-08-07T03:26:10 < salcedo> within the confines of what the EU sets.
2019-08-07T03:26:11 < BrainDamage> and you're not forced to join the EU either
2019-08-07T03:26:29 < catphish> i think we found the racist lol
2019-08-07T03:26:32 < salcedo> you're not forced to join the EU, but if you don't your country will starve and all of its citizens will move to EU countries.
2019-08-07T03:26:49 < catphish> salcedo: that much is true
2019-08-07T03:27:07 < BrainDamage> uhhh, pretty sure switzerland, norway, etc are doing fine
2019-08-07T03:27:17 < mawk> albania is the first country of incoming migrants in france
2019-08-07T03:27:18 < catphish> if they uk (where i live) leaves the EU it is likely i will try to move back into the EU
2019-08-07T03:27:39 < BrainDamage> thing is, if you're a small country it's CONVENIENT to join
2019-08-07T03:27:42 < jadew> mawk, really?
2019-08-07T03:27:46 < salcedo> grow a nutsack and stay in UK when they leave.
2019-08-07T03:27:54 < catphish> why?
2019-08-07T03:27:55 < BrainDamage> jadew: for italy too, at least on the EU side
2019-08-07T03:28:14 < salcedo> because you'll be able to shape the country into something you want it to be without EU influences.
2019-08-07T03:28:16 < BrainDamage> there's plenty of social hatred on gypsies as consequence
2019-08-07T03:28:17 < catphish> i'm more worried about the UK becoming subject to US regulation
2019-08-07T03:28:28 < salcedo> how the hell would UK become subject to US regulation?
2019-08-07T03:28:28 < mawk> maybe not this year jadew , but like 1 or 2 years ago
2019-08-07T03:28:38 < mawk> but yeah, I meant refugees
2019-08-07T03:28:47 < catphish> salcedo: i'd much rather go back to EU rule and leave the UK to the nationalists who want to go it alone
2019-08-07T03:28:52 < mawk> plain migrants would be from french speaking arab countries I guess
2019-08-07T03:28:53 < BrainDamage> salcedo: how do you think a country supports itself economically?
2019-08-07T03:29:04 < BrainDamage> if it's not continent sized
2019-08-07T03:29:06 < salcedo> BrainDamage: israel
2019-08-07T03:29:19 < BrainDamage> israel gets money funneled by the us
2019-08-07T03:29:24 < BrainDamage> so it has double ties with it
2019-08-07T03:29:25 < salcedo> no
2019-08-07T03:29:29 < mawk> israel has the bomb thanks to france
2019-08-07T03:29:45 < mawk> at the time the US didn't want france to have its own bomb, so france did its own bomb anyway and gave it to israel to piss the US off
2019-08-07T03:29:54 < mawk> nowadays france is a little pet to the US
2019-08-07T03:29:57 < catphish> salcedo: well without EU membership, the UK will need new trade deals, that will mean re-aligning standards / governance
2019-08-07T03:30:07 < salcedo> israel prints the money funneled to it by the US in exchange for life-long debt servitude contracts activated at birth of every US citizen.
2019-08-07T03:30:26 < catphish> salcedo: the most likely outcome is that the US offer a good deal and expect us to align with their regulations
2019-08-07T03:30:41 < salcedo> catphish: how would that be a bad thing?
2019-08-07T03:30:48 < mawk> US is already very rude with the whole world and is extra-territoriality law principle
2019-08-07T03:30:55 < mawk> US law applies everywhere
2019-08-07T03:31:13 < catphish> salcedo: because i dislike US policy, the same way you seem to dislike EU policy, i guess it's just personal preference
2019-08-07T03:31:18 < boB_K7IQ> Microcap is now free
2019-08-07T03:31:19 < boB_K7IQ> http://www.spectrum-soft.com/download/download.shtm
2019-08-07T03:31:25 < mawk> french bank doing business with iranian bank ? sentenced to a fine in the US under threat of forbidding dollar trade
2019-08-07T03:31:30 < salcedo> catphish: what's wrong with corporations running the government?
2019-08-07T03:31:32 < salcedo> it's great.
2019-08-07T03:31:39 < catphish> ah you're joking, ok
2019-08-07T03:31:40 < salcedo> if you're rich, you are above the law. if not, fuck you.
2019-08-07T03:32:11 < catphish> that's indeed the problem, that and imperial measurements :)
2019-08-07T03:32:33 < salcedo> i think if US imposed some sort of compliance to their laws on the UK, people would embrace it.
2019-08-07T03:32:36 < salcedo> but
2019-08-07T03:32:47 < mawk> you don't like lbs·°F⁻¹ ?
2019-08-07T03:32:54 < salcedo> if the US said "btw you gotta use imperial measurements", the UK would definitely revolt.
2019-08-07T03:33:01 < catphish> lol
2019-08-07T03:33:08 < mawk> the uk doesn't use imperial ?
2019-08-07T03:33:18 < catphish> mawk: not much, only miles
2019-08-07T03:33:20 < mawk> I thought they did
2019-08-07T03:33:21 < mawk> ah
2019-08-07T03:33:25 < salcedo> yea
2019-08-07T03:33:40 < salcedo> afterall, didn't the imperial system come from UK?
2019-08-07T03:33:49 < mawk> even from france and the other countries
2019-08-07T03:33:54 < mawk> it's just an old system
2019-08-07T03:33:56 < catphish> salcedo: i think so, but we realised it was dumb :)
2019-08-07T03:34:00 < mawk> and some countries moved on, some didn't
2019-08-07T03:34:11 < salcedo> the US decided to use it for everything, even when the originating countries were like "this is stupid. let's use something that makes sense."
2019-08-07T03:34:25 < salcedo> but 'muricans were like "let's keep using it because we're retards"
2019-08-07T03:34:27 < catphish> though we still use miles (and officially, but never in common speak, yards)
2019-08-07T03:34:33 < mawk> some of the units like gram and stuff were invented after the french revolution to sever the ties with the old imperial/monarchist world
2019-08-07T03:34:34 < jadew> boB_K7IQ, thanks
2019-08-07T03:34:43 < boB_K7IQ> :)
2019-08-07T03:34:43 < mawk> so they set up commissions to invent new units
2019-08-07T03:34:59 < mawk> but then they beheaded the chemist behind it or something
2019-08-07T03:35:07 < catphish> the french did pretty good with metric
2019-08-07T03:35:10 < salcedo> "YOUR MEASUREMENTS SUCK!!! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!"
2019-08-07T03:35:30 < catphish> even though it seems kinda obvious in retrospect
2019-08-07T03:36:07 < salcedo> you never know
2019-08-07T03:36:12 < salcedo> this election 
2019-08-07T03:36:24 < salcedo> we're gonna get oprah or zuckerberg or some fucking socialist "democrat"
2019-08-07T03:36:32 < salcedo> and UK will brexit
2019-08-07T03:36:39 < salcedo> and then trump beomes prime minister of UK
2019-08-07T03:36:53 < catphish> anyway, yeah, the UK is ok for encryption (though it's controvertial, many people think there should be police backdoors)
2019-08-07T03:36:57 < mawk> lol that chemist guy asked right before getting beheaded if he could have a few more hours to live to finish an experiment
2019-08-07T03:37:19 < jadew> what?
2019-08-07T03:37:38 < jadew> what are you talking about?
2019-08-07T03:37:42 < mawk> the stupid judge answered "the Republic doesn't need scientists nor chemists; the course of Justice can't be suspended."
2019-08-07T03:37:52 < mawk> the french revolution jadew 
2019-08-07T03:37:58 < mawk> the chemist is Lavoisier
2019-08-07T03:38:02 < salcedo> and right before the guillotine dropped, he was like "don't you see the irony that this blade was cut to the very measure you're beheading me for? you fucking dolts."
2019-08-07T03:38:06 < jadew> ah
2019-08-07T03:38:22 < jadew> I stopped reading the convo :)
2019-08-07T03:38:28 < catphish> i look forward to trump being prime minister of the world, he'll do the best deals
2019-08-07T03:38:34 < mawk> lol
2019-08-07T03:38:38 < salcedo> catphish: the very best deals.
2019-08-07T03:38:43 < salcedo> the deals will be great.
2019-08-07T03:38:46 < salcedo> i assure you.
2019-08-07T03:38:50 < catphish> :)
2019-08-07T03:39:01 < MrMobius> salcedo, ya us 'muricans are dumb. . . so when are we switching to base 10 for time and using 100 metric seconds per minute? guess the babylonians with their base 12 shit are just as dumb...
2019-08-07T03:39:06 < catphish> make britain great again
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2019-08-07T03:39:26 < catphish> (it works so much better as a slogan here)
2019-08-07T03:39:33 < salcedo> Make UK Great Again. MUGA. short for Meshugga
2019-08-07T03:40:00 < mawk> more like base 60 for babylone
2019-08-07T03:40:15 < catphish> now, i have a footprint for a motor to draw
2019-08-07T03:40:28 < salcedo> you're using mils right?
2019-08-07T03:40:49 < catphish> this little guy https://i.imgur.com/I5QEGFL.jpg
2019-08-07T03:40:52 < catphish> mils? no
2019-08-07T03:40:55 < catphish> i use mm
2019-08-07T03:41:24 < jadew> that is, 25.4 / 1000 mm
2019-08-07T03:41:27 < catphish> though it's mildly inconvenient that everything is in 2.54mm increments
2019-08-07T03:41:55 < catphish> so maybe i should
2019-08-07T03:42:31 < jadew> I've been using inch on quite a few things this year and I still can't get used
2019-08-07T03:42:42 < salcedo> yuck
2019-08-07T03:42:50 < salcedo> i use mm for everything in kicad
2019-08-07T03:42:57 < mawk> no catphish stay strong
2019-08-07T03:43:09 < mawk> just pop up a python console for the 2.54 mm computations
2019-08-07T03:43:25 < jadew> salcedo, you have to use inch when you specify imperial threads
2019-08-07T03:43:49 < jadew> some datasheets are still in inch (only)
2019-08-07T03:43:58 < catphish> i have my kicad grid set to 1.27mm :)
2019-08-07T03:44:05 < rajkosto> MrMobius, swatch internet time ;)
2019-08-07T03:44:05 < catphish> so everything is good
2019-08-07T03:44:23 < jadew> catphish, you must have many headers
2019-08-07T03:44:46 < catphish> i used to
2019-08-07T03:45:01 < catphish> when i was just integrating dev boards
2019-08-07T03:45:05 < jadew> my default grid is set to 0.1 mm
2019-08-07T03:46:11 < catphish> nice
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2019-08-07T03:51:51 < BrainDamage> if you thought internet time was bad, https://bavardage.github.io/Kiloseconds/
2019-08-07T03:53:29 < rajkosto> ITS CURRENTLY 78.78 BEATS
2019-08-07T03:53:55 < rajkosto> why isnt there a little engine in stm32 that just accumulates and averages ADC readouts
2019-08-07T04:01:02 < MrMobius> amaze
2019-08-07T04:03:32 < Laurenceb> rajkosto: I dunno like maybe because thats trivial to do
2019-08-07T04:07:00 < catphish> footprint done, wasn't too painful https://i.imgur.com/I5QEGFL.jpg -> https://i.imgur.com/QKV3CX4.png
2019-08-07T04:07:38 < Laurenceb> woah they got this sorted
2019-08-07T04:07:39 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48699.100
2019-08-07T04:11:08 < rajkosto> might be trivial to do but i dont want to do array summation and averaging inside the dma complete interrupt
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2019-08-07T04:17:31 < Laurenceb> >anti hispanic shooter shot up texas
2019-08-07T04:17:41 < Laurenceb> >didnt shoot bocachicagrrrl
2019-08-07T04:17:46 < Laurenceb> the absolute state
2019-08-07T04:18:30 < Laurenceb> >>My name is NOT Maria. My name IS Mary.
2019-08-07T04:18:35 < Laurenceb> literally wut
2019-08-07T04:18:40 < Cracki> in some new f3 or L4 there *is* adc oversampling, which sounds like they sum up a few samples
2019-08-07T04:18:50 < Laurenceb> Mexican nerd girls are weird
2019-08-07T04:19:00 < Laurenceb> Cracki: sounds useful
2019-08-07T04:19:12 < Laurenceb> I think we can troll her by calling her Maria
2019-08-07T04:19:39 < Cracki> guess so. I think the L4 even has an adadc and I remember having seen "16-bit" somewhere in the analog highlights
2019-08-07T04:19:46 < Cracki> mary jane
2019-08-07T04:20:05 < Cracki> mare
2019-08-07T04:21:30 < Laurenceb> well when I looked at the specs, the 16 bit sigma delta on stm32 was barely better than 12 bit sar with oversampling
2019-08-07T04:22:20 < Laurenceb> but running the 12 bit at max clock rate and running extra dsp used more power
2019-08-07T04:23:46 < bitmask> damnit dhl, pick up and deliver my package already
2019-08-07T04:23:55 < catphish> Cracki: yes, l4 oversampling is just a sum and (optionally) a shift
2019-08-07T04:25:10 < Cracki> so wat do to actually achieve 12 or more bits? pepper it all with inductors? tin foil hats on everything? power down everything?
2019-08-07T04:25:33 < Laurenceb> pretty much
2019-08-07T04:25:40 < Laurenceb> not quite that bad
2019-08-07T04:25:44 < catphish> you gain something by summing 16 x 12 bit samples
2019-08-07T04:25:48 < catphish> but it's quite meh
2019-08-07T04:25:51 < Laurenceb> the adc vcc needs to be very high quality
2019-08-07T04:26:22 < Laurenceb> you dont gain much by clocking down everything else on recent parts
2019-08-07T04:26:39 < Laurenceb> they solved the internal interference issues pretty much
2019-08-07T04:27:41 < Laurenceb> keeek Elon Musks twitter
2019-08-07T04:27:53 < Laurenceb> all the Mexican science thots are after him
2019-08-07T04:29:06 < catphish> lol
2019-08-07T04:29:25 < catphish> sleepy time now
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2019-08-07T04:29:45 < Cracki> some appnote I read a few days ago said you need to add x4 oversampling per bit you want to gain, which is an odd rule of thumb but who knows, doesn't sound insane
2019-08-07T04:29:54 < Laurenceb> maybe I should move to mexico
2019-08-07T04:29:56 < Cracki> so 16x oversampling sounds like two bits
2019-08-07T04:30:04 < Laurenceb> Cracki confirmed as failing stats
2019-08-07T04:30:14 < Laurenceb> its obvious it goes up with sqrt(n)
2019-08-07T04:30:22 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-08-07T04:30:41 < Cracki> our stats course didn't talk about noise or measuring things
2019-08-07T04:30:55 < Laurenceb> Sigma Delta uses clever nonlinearity techniques to make it close to n rather than sqrt(n)
2019-08-07T04:30:57 < Cracki> it was all about counting wieners and melons and all that
2019-08-07T04:31:10 < Laurenceb> thats what Sigma-Delta uber smart
2019-08-07T04:31:15  * Laurenceb zzz
2019-08-07T04:33:13 < Cracki> r u doing adc rn?
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2019-08-07T05:14:49 < aandrew> no use to me, but others may find it interesting: https://www.quinapalus.com/qfplib.html
2019-08-07T05:31:36 < Cracki> nice
2019-08-07T05:33:59 < Cracki> lol gofast slower than gcc
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2019-08-07T06:00:55 < mawk> try D Cracki 
2019-08-07T06:00:59 < mawk> fastest compiler evah
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2019-08-07T12:23:17 < karlp> is it really slow? oh boring
2019-08-07T12:35:26 < jadew> sup?
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2019-08-07T13:06:43 < jpa-> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20190805-00/?p=102749  interesting, i didn't know thumb was derived from sh-3
2019-08-07T13:09:39 < mrus> karlp: thanks for the insights! Happy too see it's not simply me being too stupid to hold it (Zephyr) right and make quick progress.
2019-08-07T13:12:17 < Cracki> I played with D a decade or so ago. it was fun but still moved a little too fast
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2019-08-07T13:13:39 < zyp> jpa-, interesting
2019-08-07T13:15:52 < jpa-> 90s seems to have been full of these risc architectures with implementation details exposed, like branch delay slots and stuff like "flags will update one instruction later after compare"; fortunately ARM has made the assembler level simple to read also
2019-08-07T13:16:10 < zyp> hehe
2019-08-07T13:18:11 < zyp> I've seen disassemblers deal with the branch delay slot by just printing it before the branch instruction in the disassembly listing
2019-08-07T13:18:42 < jpa-> yeah, but that can be confusing also if the instruction in delay slot would affect a conditional branch
2019-08-07T13:19:13 < zyp> true
2019-08-07T13:28:31 < karlp> mrus: big upside of zephy vs other integrated solutions like chibi/nuttx are that zephry seems to understand that you might want to havey our own applications separate, it doesn't require you have it all in the same tree.  there's some good looking bits, but there's a lot of heavyweight cruft lying over it all
2019-08-07T13:32:12 < jpa-> i never have my apps in same tree with chibi/nuttx either, though i do have the chibios/nuttx repo as a git submodule
2019-08-07T13:32:44 < zyp> yeah, that's the sensible solution
2019-08-07T13:32:59 < mrus> I guess all that contributes to the abstraction, which should ideally allow one to switch boards with little to no hassle. Initially I also found the device tree files they use interesting, but it turns out that there's a lot of weird things (magic?) happening. I didn't manage to include an existing sensor driver into the STM32 device through an overlay for example.
2019-08-07T13:35:08 < jpa-> i feel like portability of whole applications between boards is a pipe dream; if you need it, sure, design it so that you can do it; but otherwise just code for the platform you will use and keep it simple
2019-08-07T13:35:38 < jpa-> that of course doesn't mean individual modules or helper libraries shouldn't be portable if they easily can be
2019-08-07T13:35:50 < karlp> jpa-: I found it very awkward to set that up with both chibi and nbnuttx, to the point that I failed, but zephyr included how to do it in their getting started guide.
2019-08-07T13:36:28 < jpa-> karlp: yeah, i agree, it's not usually documented at all and requires a bit of makefile trickery
2019-08-07T13:37:32 < karlp> my experience trying to get pwm for the blinky workign in zephyr did not leave a good taste in my mouth though :)
2019-08-07T13:37:54 < jpa-> https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/ebike-controller   this is how i've usually done it, with Makefile.chibios copied from some example project and adjusted for paths
2019-08-07T13:40:27 < mrus> jpa-: this is true. However, imagine you're building something for a platform that looks great in specs but, as soon as your supply chain manages to get you the actual hardware (and all components you depend on, e.g. sensors), it turns out that it might not be that great in first place or initial assumptions were wrong or - even worse - requirements during the project slighly change, requiring different 
2019-08-07T13:40:33 < mrus> hardware. What would you suggest doing in such a case?
2019-08-07T13:40:57 < jpa-> port it
2019-08-07T13:41:12 < jpa-> one-time port is still less work than constantly keeping up portability
2019-08-07T13:41:31 < mrus> as in.. "port the whole whole RTOS which did not initially support the new platform you're aiming for now?"
2019-08-07T13:42:15 < jpa-> well, if need be; but if you are using something like cortex-m, i'd be very surprised if there isn't a suitable controller available with the same cpu architecture
2019-08-07T13:43:22 < jpa-> and it's of course good that a reusable project like RTOS is portable - but it has very different goals than your own applications, which can be coded for a single platform
2019-08-07T13:44:54 < englishman> jpa-: unfortunately,there is a recursive reference. The lwn article references wikipedia that says arm licensed sh2. but the wiki article references the lwn article.
2019-08-07T13:45:11 < jpa-> englishman: haha
2019-08-07T13:45:21 < jpa-> englishman: but it is on internet now, so it is true
2019-08-07T13:45:26 < englishman> yes.
2019-08-07T13:45:46 < englishman> good articles in any case
2019-08-07T13:45:49 < englishman> ty
2019-08-07T13:48:43 < mrus> jpa-: idk, in the last decade I've seen plenty project struggling with exactly that: Flexibility. I understand the arguments of abstraction possibly taking away efficiency and all that - but in the end the most efficient code won't help you if along the way circumstances change, requiring you to pivot. Hence I'd rather go for a less-than-100% efficient solution if it ment being 100% more flexible than with 
2019-08-07T13:48:49 < mrus> the most efficient one – especially on a project where you lack experience from a previous version.
2019-08-07T13:52:35 < englishman> A 180nm implementation of the J2 design, he said, costs around three cents per chip, with no royalties required.
2019-08-07T13:52:37 < englishman> cool
2019-08-07T13:54:34 < jpa-> mrus: i'm not worried about efficiency as much as needless abstraction; i've also seen a bunch of projects where there was flexibility and abstraction but it was in other places than where it turned out to be necessary, and added a bunch of needless complexity there
2019-08-07T13:55:45 < jpa-> e.g. one project had a library for 3G modems that had abstraction so one could specialize to different modems and RTOSes and protocols; but it ever only got one set implemented, and it was a pain to debug because of everything going through a bunch of callbacks and function pointers
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2019-08-07T13:57:13 < jpa-> so i feel like classic X11 idiom: "The only thing worse than generalizing from one example is generalizing from no examples at all."
2019-08-07T13:57:41 < mrus> that's a good one, heh. I see what you mean.
2019-08-07T13:58:30 < jpa-> that particular project struggled because development took too long and it was too difficult to track down bugs.. so extra flexibility has some very real costs
2019-08-07T14:00:41 < mrus> i can imagine that. On the other hand, it sounds like a *very* specific abstraction you had there, which was put in place in order to be able to exchange one (possibly not so development intensive) part with a different model?
2019-08-07T14:01:20 < jpa-> every abstraction is specific IMO
2019-08-07T14:01:39 < jpa-> e.g. you need a timer, will you build abstract timer driver or just access the registers?
2019-08-07T14:02:35 < zyp> it's hard to make good abstractions for timers, they are generally too flexible
2019-08-07T14:02:55 < zyp> so it's better to make specific abstractions for various usecases, e.g. pwm
2019-08-07T14:03:04 < mrus> So it's not like.. "let's allow the comfort of switching what is the base we build on top on probably contributes to a large part of the end product", but rather "let's make something that's not cost-intensive nor development intensive abstract for the thrill of it"?
2019-08-07T14:03:45 < mrus> *and probably contributes to a large part of the costs of the end product
2019-08-07T14:03:58 < zyp> it's also a matter of stack thickness
2019-08-07T14:04:23 < zyp> using a timer by accessing registers directly is easy
2019-08-07T14:04:32 < zyp> using usb by accessing registers directly is hard
2019-08-07T14:05:26 < zyp> for usb you got a lot of generic code running on top of a driver for the specific hardware you've got
2019-08-07T14:06:28 < mrus> zyp: and by being hard it leads to being development intensive and therefor cost intensive.
2019-08-07T14:06:42 < zyp> yeah?
2019-08-07T14:07:00 < jpa-> mrus: well the choice of the 3G modem contributed a lot to that project and was risky for possibly being discontinued, so in a way there was point in building abstraction for it; but it was cost paid upfront for a possibility that never materialized, and the cost was high enough that it almost doomed the project
2019-08-07T14:07:15 < zyp> mrus, my point is that abstracting the usb hardware makes total sense
2019-08-07T14:07:17 < Cracki> I see two kinds of abstraction. the real kind is when you repeat yourself, you notice the pattern, and then you name the pattern, and you figure out how to NOT repeat yourself but just speak the pattern's name instead. that's the benign kind.
2019-08-07T14:07:20 < zyp> abstracting a timer not so much
2019-08-07T14:07:42 < Cracki> the second kind is really just "flexibility" or having to deal with variation/options
2019-08-07T14:07:43 < jpa-> abstracting usb hardware makes sense if someone else has done it and you can reuse it
2019-08-07T14:08:12 < zyp> makes sense if you're doing it yourself too
2019-08-07T14:08:21 < zyp> writing an unportable usb stack is a waste of time :p
2019-08-07T14:08:23 < jpa-> but if you try to abstract it yourself, you'll end up exposing so much implementation details that even porting between STM32 USBv1 vs. OTGFS won't work, because EP0 packets and FIFO work a bit differently etc.
2019-08-07T14:08:26 < Cracki> and you do NOT design for options you don't (yet) have because that costs you time to implement, time to maintain, time to debug, time to explain, time to think about
2019-08-07T14:08:53 < mrus> zyp: I understood that, I'm with you on that. Hence what I said: Abstractions make sense if things that you might require to extend/build on top/replace are complex and hence development and cost intensive.
2019-08-07T14:08:53 < jpa-> zyp: well sure if you are zyp, but for me i wouldn't be experienced enough to abstract it properly the first time around
2019-08-07T14:09:09 < zyp> I weren't either :)
2019-08-07T14:09:26 < zyp> I didn't know much about usb when I wrote my stack, it shows
2019-08-07T14:09:29 < jpa-> so i'd just abstract up to the level that writing code is easy and clean, and not try for the level where i could port it anywhere without API changes
2019-08-07T14:09:38 < Cracki> scratch "might". say "will certainly".
2019-08-07T14:09:45 < Cracki> "might" turns into "won't ever"
2019-08-07T14:10:17 < jpa-> yeah, "might" = "will not", whereas "this we'll never change" = "changes next month"
2019-08-07T14:10:36 < Cracki> especially software types like to think they need flexibility because a "customer" is being very open about their indecisiveness
2019-08-07T14:10:38 < mrus> jpa-: ah I see. Well, then.. I guess it was simply a "wrong forecast". Therefor in such a situation there might not be a wrong or right (2abstract || !2abstract).
2019-08-07T14:11:27 < jpa-> IMO the cost of adding abstraction later is often not much more than adding it upfront, and then you actually know it is needed, *and* you have two examples to generalize from so the abstraction will be better
2019-08-07T14:11:36 < Cracki> one of my boss'es(?) customers wanted a device developed that would work with two kinds of... "end effectors", both doing the same thing, but both being complex, and we had no good specs for either.
2019-08-07T14:12:08 < Cracki> in the end, they never ever touched the second option, so it was a good thing we didn't design this choice at first
2019-08-07T14:15:01 < Cracki> the downside of getting "change requests" later is that you have to rethink, and potentially redo a little or a lot of what you have already... one frustration I often have because the customer (or the boss) comes up with things they want *piecemeal* instead of collecting and dumping it once for me to make sense of once
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2019-08-07T14:19:09 < Cracki> some "flexibility" (indecision) I had to deal with was one connector of a dozen signals to the end effector. apart from one developer at the customer's side, no decision makers knew that the end effector itself already had complete flexibility over the assignments of its dozen of pins to functions
2019-08-07T14:21:26 < Cracki> I had to anticipate being required to be the flexible side, so now both sides do work that's pointless
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2019-08-07T14:23:45 < Cracki> they were INDECISIVE about the business logic too, to a degree that I was very tempted to just implement some way for them to "script" our device themselves instead of me having to translate their whims into code and send them a firmware update
2019-08-07T14:24:47 < karlp> jpa-: I'm totally with you on adding the abstraction later, when youg et the second example.
2019-08-07T14:26:24 < jadew> zyp, big projects are never done on version 1
2019-08-07T14:27:48 < jadew> normally v1 is where you actually understand the project, then you throw it away and start with v2
2019-08-07T14:28:10 < Cracki> my versioning of *that* battlefield goes something like "v0.42" because I'm still not sure if they've ever properly sold units instead of lending prototypes out to customers
2019-08-07T14:29:01 < jadew> knowing this, some companies do this on purpose, they just implement one version that's going to be thrown away, just so the developers and everyone involved understands what the details actually are
2019-08-07T14:29:19 < Cracki> the technical term is "prototype" :P
2019-08-07T14:29:42 < jadew> heh, not in the software world :)
2019-08-07T14:29:56 < jadew> that's opposed to an evolving project
2019-08-07T14:30:02 < jadew> that starts in alpha and grows
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2019-08-07T14:30:09 < jadew> you just scrap it all and start over
2019-08-07T14:30:18 < Cracki> design for scrapping
2019-08-07T14:30:37 < jadew> yeah, I've done it many times too
2019-08-07T14:30:42 < Cracki> giving things a version number means they're part of a continuum. that's a lie.
2019-08-07T14:30:58 < Cracki> version bumps often imply major redecoration.
2019-08-07T14:31:00 < jadew> it's more efficient like that because you don't focus on time consuming crap that won't make a difference
2019-08-07T14:31:05 < Cracki> ;)
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2019-08-07T14:32:17 < jadew> on the other hand, I've seen shitty v2 too :)
2019-08-07T14:32:49 < Cracki> v2 syndrome is real. overdesign because "we learned from v1 that we need a kitchen sink"
2019-08-07T14:33:18 < jadew> well, you can end up cutting features out too
2019-08-07T14:33:44 < jadew> but yeah, v2 shouldn't add too many features, because then it's just another v1
2019-08-07T14:33:57 < Cracki> removing useless stuff is a good outcome
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2019-08-07T14:51:07 < karlp> we did v1, v2, v3, v4, outsource :)
2019-08-07T14:51:19 < jadew> haha
2019-08-07T14:51:44 < karlp> chagned software quite a bit in some of those versions, and staff :)
2019-08-07T14:52:22 < karlp> the last staff were starting a v5 but were way out in the woods with trying out new tech to solve plausible, but not real nor pressing concerns.
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2019-08-07T15:00:39 < jadew> changing staff is the worst thing that can happen to a project
2019-08-07T15:01:06 < jadew> it's often better to go with fewer people than to hire new ones
2019-08-07T15:02:26 < jadew> maybe outsourcing was the right choice, at least when you do that you stop worrying about the details of how it gets done and just demand stuff
2019-08-07T15:02:37 < karlp> so far has very much been the right choice.
2019-08-07T15:03:07 < karlp> was more "use this existing product and get a few changfes" rather than total outsourcing too
2019-08-07T15:03:25 < jadew> I see
2019-08-07T15:05:16 < jadew> was that an existing product from a different company?
2019-08-07T15:05:40 < jadew> I'm normally an advocate for custom solutions, but they don't always work out
2019-08-07T15:06:12 < karlp> yeah
2019-08-07T15:06:19 < jadew> for example my online shop is fully custom and I'm not sure it was the right choice, considering there are so many other options available
2019-08-07T15:06:50 < jadew> being custom means I have to implement a lot of crap that would have otherwise been just a one click config
2019-08-07T15:08:54 < jadew> I mainly did it to battle test some libraries that I wrote, but I regret that decision now
2019-08-07T15:13:41 < Cracki> web shop software... there are whole conferences for single shop software packages
2019-08-07T15:14:41 < Cracki> some "web designers" I know are half admin/sysop and half css decorator
2019-08-07T15:37:38 < Steffanx> but your stuff is awesome now ofcourse, jadew ;)
2019-08-07T15:39:56 < jadew> Steffanx, it is and I like the fact that it's different
2019-08-07T15:40:08 < jadew> but it takes time to implement new features
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2019-08-07T15:53:37 < jadew> this weekend I added product options, took almost 2 days
2019-08-07T15:55:50 < zyp> I need to figure out a ton of javascript shit that changed every time I wanna make updates to my store
2019-08-07T15:56:26 < jadew> that's something I don't have to deal with
2019-08-07T15:56:46 < jadew> which platform are you using?
2019-08-07T15:57:01 < zyp> in what sense? frontend is in angular
2019-08-07T15:57:11 < zyp> backend is python
2019-08-07T15:57:16 < jadew> oh, you wrote it
2019-08-07T15:57:28 < zyp> yes
2019-08-07T15:57:40 < jadew> I thought it's an off the shelf thing and you're talking about the difficulties of upkeeping
2019-08-07T15:57:47 < zyp> nah
2019-08-07T15:58:11 < jadew> what js changes are you talking about then?
2019-08-07T15:58:15 < jadew> from libraries?
2019-08-07T15:58:37 < zyp> well, yeah, every time I wanna make updates, the libraries I used last time are obsolete :p
2019-08-07T15:58:45 < jadew> ah, fantastic :)
2019-08-07T15:58:52 < jadew> yeah, I'm using my own libraries
2019-08-07T16:00:04 < jadew> I guess I didn't want all that work to go to waste - I wrote them for a different project that has been put on pause for ~2 years now
2019-08-07T16:00:05 < zyp> the javascript world is fucked up, but you can't get around it if you wanna do clientside stuff
2019-08-07T16:00:33 < jadew> yeah, there's a lot of incompatibility to deal with
2019-08-07T16:01:18 < zyp> and server side templating is not so fun either
2019-08-07T16:02:12 < zyp> the nice part about doing stuff on the client side is that you don't need to bother with client state on the server side
2019-08-07T16:02:17 < zyp> e.g. cart content
2019-08-07T16:02:43 < jadew> zyp, depends...
2019-08-07T16:02:45 < jadew> I do
2019-08-07T16:02:56 < jadew> I rebuild and recalculate the cart on the server side too
2019-08-07T16:03:16 < jadew> that way, when I start a payment via paypal, I know I charge the correct amount
2019-08-07T16:03:48 < jadew> otherwise the user could mess with it and pay less (or more, but what are the odds of that happening)
2019-08-07T16:03:59 < zyp> I only handle stuff on the server side once I receive a complete submitted order
2019-08-07T16:04:50 < jadew> you charge them via paypal?
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2019-08-07T16:17:28 < zyp> yes, after the order is submitted
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2019-08-07T16:17:49 < jadew> ah, right, so you are checking the cart
2019-08-07T16:18:01 < zyp> of course
2019-08-07T16:18:03 < jadew> you don't just forward it to paypal
2019-08-07T16:18:29 < zyp> at the moment I do the paypal shit manually
2019-08-07T16:18:36 < jadew> ah!
2019-08-07T16:19:01 < zyp> but there's preparations for adding in payment modules later
2019-08-07T16:21:45 < jadew> I added stipe too, just to realize when I tried to enable it for production that it doesn't work in Romania :)
2019-08-07T16:23:30 < Steffanx> lol
2019-08-07T16:28:48 < jadew> zyp, do you also sell on ebay?
2019-08-07T16:29:29 < jadew> damn.. I had a TNT shipment... such a difference from DHL
2019-08-07T16:29:45 < jadew> less paperwork, faster customs processing
2019-08-07T16:30:02 < jadew> 2 hours for customs vs several days with DHL
2019-08-07T16:31:51 < Steffanx> Must be ronmanian DHL. i never had real issues
2019-08-07T16:32:22 < jadew> Steffanx, it's possible
2019-08-07T16:32:28 < Steffanx> *romanian
2019-08-07T16:32:47 < jadew> they're ok if you comply with all that crap, but the customs processing time is still hugely different
2019-08-07T16:33:09 < jadew> 2 hours vs sometimes even 4 days
2019-08-07T16:34:10 < jadew> might not even be their fault, but still... if I ever get to choose, I'll choose TNT
2019-08-07T16:35:40 < Steffanx> until you'll have the same issue with tnt :)
2019-08-07T16:36:23 < jadew> I had way more packages delivered via DHL, but every time I had to deal with TNT it was amazing
2019-08-07T16:36:57 < jadew> I think they have a lot less volume, so the employees are nicer too
2019-08-07T16:37:09 < jadew> because they don't get to deal with grumpy customers all the time
2019-08-07T16:46:04 < salcedo> oh that reminds me i chose the "gimme my boards in a month" option on jlcpcb lol :(
2019-08-07T16:46:57 < jadew> there is such an option?
2019-08-07T16:47:02 < jadew> all I get from them is DHL
2019-08-07T16:47:07 < jadew> not that I mind it
2019-08-07T16:49:13 < salcedo> i don't recall which one it was but there was a shipping option that cost much less than the one initially selected
2019-08-07T16:49:43 < jadew> "[ ] I'll pick them up myself from the factory floor"
2019-08-07T16:50:16 < jadew> $2
2019-08-07T16:53:58 < salcedo> "[ ] I agree to be confined to LCSC worker housing units until the my labor has made up for the cost of my PCBs, or for a period of at least sixty (60) months, whichever is greater."
2019-08-07T16:54:37 < jadew> salcedo, they don't need you there
2019-08-07T16:54:51 < jadew> they have billions of people to choose from
2019-08-07T16:55:00 < jadew> and they'll work for similar wages
2019-08-07T16:56:19 < jadew> their passion for what they do is reflected in the quality products coming out of there
2019-08-07T16:57:50 < karlp> this will be a fun connector housing: https://business.toshiba-memory.com/en-jp/product/memory/xfmexpress.html
2019-08-07T16:59:01 < jadew> it'll have to be the lid type
2019-08-07T16:59:13 < jadew> where you insert it into a lid and then press it down
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2019-08-07T17:28:40 < zyp> jadew, no
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2019-08-07T23:52:44 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/WRmiRFl.gifv
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2019-08-07T23:59:24 < Cracki> wat
2019-08-07T23:59:59 < Cracki> spartans had the right idea
--- Day changed Thu Aug 08 2019
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2019-08-08T00:02:09 < jadew> https://www.flickr.com/photos/canhgioi007/sets/72157681058113460
2019-08-08T00:03:29 < jadew> some of them are brilliant
2019-08-08T00:03:35 < jadew> https://www.flickr.com/photos/canhgioi007/33337545544/in/album-72157681058113460/lightbox/
2019-08-08T00:12:43 < rajkosto> NSFW tho
2019-08-08T00:12:55 < jadew> depends on where you work, but yeah
2019-08-08T00:13:25 < jadew> in some places art is appreciated
2019-08-08T00:13:32 < rajkosto> but not tittays
2019-08-08T00:13:33 < jadew> especially large breasts art
2019-08-08T00:14:38 < rajkosto> this is a christian server
2019-08-08T00:15:26 < Steffanx> Sorry rajkosto  
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2019-08-08T00:18:06 < jadew> finished going through all of them
2019-08-08T00:18:14 < jadew> they're nice
2019-08-08T00:19:31 < jadew> there was an error downloading this selection please try again
2019-08-08T00:19:32 < jadew> :/
2019-08-08T00:20:43 < Cracki> if large breasts are NSFW, simply post flat chests
2019-08-08T00:20:50 < Cracki> I'm sure that's much better
2019-08-08T00:21:11 < jadew> women nipples are NSFW
2019-08-08T00:21:17 < Cracki> that boy will buy another fish tomorrow
2019-08-08T00:21:31 < Cracki> just say they identify as men, then these nipples are male
2019-08-08T00:21:34 < jadew> Cracki, I would too
2019-08-08T00:21:53 < Cracki> also, I *think* that boy is a lesbian
2019-08-08T00:22:31 < jadew> hmm, hard to tell, but I don't think so
2019-08-08T00:23:35 < Cracki> ok ok that's not a lesbian ginger https://www.flickr.com/photos/canhgioi007/33337532474/in/album-72157681058113460/
2019-08-08T00:23:46 < Cracki> but nearly a wet pussy
2019-08-08T00:26:29 < Cracki> only in ukraine. in western states that's not permissible
2019-08-08T00:26:53 < jadew> what's not permissible?
2019-08-08T00:27:10 < Cracki> >_>
2019-08-08T00:27:22 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/oHoPFc9.gifv
2019-08-08T00:27:30 < Cracki> ukraine deserves .uk, the brits deserve .bong
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2019-08-08T00:43:28 < jadew> what's the maximum angle you can have in vase mode?
2019-08-08T00:45:13 < zyp> 720°
2019-08-08T00:45:30 < jadew> you mean 0?
2019-08-08T00:46:05 < jadew> it's got to be something like 30 degrees or so
2019-08-08T00:46:10 < zyp> dunno, I'm just being silly
2019-08-08T00:46:43 < jadew> reddit says 45 deg for a 0.4 mm nozzle with a layer height of 0.2 mm
2019-08-08T00:46:47 < jadew> that's pretty good
2019-08-08T00:47:46 < zyp> probably depends on plastic type also
2019-08-08T00:48:05 < jadew> probably
2019-08-08T00:48:17 < jadew> bitmask probably knows
2019-08-08T00:48:48 < bitmask> ?
2019-08-08T00:49:04 < zyp> but i mean, people can do pretty crazy angles in normal mode, why not in vase mode?
2019-08-08T00:49:29 < jadew> zyp, I think in normal mode the perimeters touch each other
2019-08-08T00:49:36 < jadew> so they have additional anchoring (maybe)
2019-08-08T00:49:45 < bitmask> vase mode is tough with overhangs
2019-08-08T00:49:53 < jadew> so how much overhang can you have?
2019-08-08T00:50:03 < jadew> is 45 deg reasonable or it will fail?
2019-08-08T00:50:19 < bitmask> Ive only done one vase mode print, a nude woman, I do that as my filament test, the top of the ass and the shoulders and usually the top of the boobies dont fully close
2019-08-08T00:50:24 < bitmask> 45 is fine
2019-08-08T00:51:02 < jadew> wait, you can do more?
2019-08-08T00:51:05 < jadew> 60?
2019-08-08T00:51:19 < jadew> (the bigger the better for my current print)
2019-08-08T00:51:45 < zyp> speaking of 3d printers, I got an email from e3d today, apparently it's my turn to order a toolchanger now
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2019-08-08T00:52:43 < bitmask> I wouldnt try 60
2019-08-08T00:52:47 < kakimir> hello dear
2019-08-08T00:52:51 < jadew> zyp, what's that?
2019-08-08T00:52:59 < jadew> what is it for?
2019-08-08T00:53:07 < jadew> bitmask, 50 then?
2019-08-08T00:53:23 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/xO7ZEsh.jpg
2019-08-08T00:53:27 < zyp> jadew, https://e3d-online.com/blog/2019/04/18/toolchanger-the-update-youve-all-been-waiting-for/
2019-08-08T00:53:30 < bitmask> 50 might be ok
2019-08-08T00:53:36 < bitmask> nsfw
2019-08-08T00:53:40 < jadew> bitmask, thanks, I'll try it
2019-08-08T00:54:19 < zyp> unfortunately I don't have €3500 to spend on a 3d printer at the moment :p
2019-08-08T00:54:47 < jadew> zyp, but how exactly is it useful?
2019-08-08T00:54:52 < bitmask> jadew what layer height are you printing at?
2019-08-08T00:54:59 < bitmask> that might affect the overhang angle limit
2019-08-08T00:55:01 < jadew> bitmask, whatever is necessary
2019-08-08T00:55:07 < zyp> jadew, idk, I just think it looks cool
2019-08-08T00:57:17 < Cracki> test the print? slice the worst overhangs, print just those, see how they do
2019-08-08T00:57:52 < zyp> the point is that you can have multiple tools, allowing not only for different types of filament, but also whole different hotends or other shit
2019-08-08T00:58:21 < zyp> and you don't need to drag around inactive nozzles, unlike a standard dual nozzle printer
2019-08-08T00:58:32 < jadew> got it
2019-08-08T00:58:34 < bitmask> I'm sure they have calibration prints just for that
2019-08-08T00:58:34 < jadew> sounds interesting
2019-08-08T00:58:50 < zyp> also got a pretty solid looking frame and all
2019-08-08T00:58:59 < Cracki> uh, that video shows axes moving quite fast, but silent. special stepper drivers? or servos?
2019-08-08T00:59:28 < zyp> just quality stepper drivers
2019-08-08T00:59:38 < Cracki> any way to find out which exactly?
2019-08-08T00:59:39 < zyp> it's using a duet board, IIRC it has trinamic stepper drivers
2019-08-08T00:59:44 < Cracki> ah :)
2019-08-08T00:59:59 < Cracki> that tmc2130 breakout is still just sitting on my desk
2019-08-08T01:00:54 < zyp> I should get a 3d printer set up here again soon
2019-08-08T01:01:00 < zyp> got something useful to print for a change
2019-08-08T01:01:04 < Cracki> their motion controllers are a good idea because then you don't have to generate stepdir at insane rates
2019-08-08T01:01:06 < jadew> zyp, are you still working on your 3d printer?
2019-08-08T01:01:15 < zyp> haven't touched it since I moved
2019-08-08T01:01:18 < zyp> haven't had time
2019-08-08T01:02:15 < zyp> but yeah
2019-08-08T01:02:52 < zyp> I'm planning to install some lights in the concrete wall I'm building, so I'm gonna run some conduit before I pour the concrete
2019-08-08T01:03:26 < kakimir> https://imgur.com/gallery/wXQoLq7
2019-08-08T01:03:35 < zyp> and the normal wall boxes for conduit isn't really a good fit for it, so I figure I could just draw up a custom shaped box and print a couple
2019-08-08T01:06:58 < bitmask> boop
2019-08-08T01:06:59 < Steffanx> bitmask will print you some
2019-08-08T01:07:11 < zyp> that'd work too
2019-08-08T01:07:30 < bitmask> Steffanx will print you some
2019-08-08T01:07:37 < zyp> but I'd rather spend the old shit filament I already got on it rather than paying for filament
2019-08-08T01:07:46 < Steffanx> That'd work too
2019-08-08T01:08:02 < zyp> I don't care much about print quality since it'll be embedded in concrete anyway :p
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2019-08-08T01:08:53 < bitmask> I got this nice dark cherry red filament that I'm using right now, was saving it for my upgraded printer frame but couldn't bring myself to buy another roll when I had a full roll already
2019-08-08T01:09:23 < bitmask> should have enough for the new frame anyway
2019-08-08T01:09:26 < zyp> I still have two eight year old rolls of PLA :p
2019-08-08T01:09:32 < Steffanx> No glow in the dark?
2019-08-08T01:09:42 < bitmask> this is petg, I only have one roll of PLA left and one on the way
2019-08-08T01:10:06 < bitmask> bought some dark gray for general use, need to print the base for my light up brain
2019-08-08T01:10:26 < Steffanx> I hardly use PLA anymore. This PETG I got works great.
2019-08-08T01:10:41 < bitmask> got carbon fiber petg too which is nice
2019-08-08T01:10:49 < zyp> yeah, I also prefer PETG, PLA feels brittle and awful
2019-08-08T01:11:04 < Steffanx> Yeah
2019-08-08T01:11:13 < zyp> but for shit to embedded in concrete I don't give a fuck, good way to get rid of it
2019-08-08T01:11:17 < bitmask> petg vase mode is so much nicer than pla vase mode, pla just crackles and breaks
2019-08-08T01:11:23 < bitmask> not that I really use vase mode
2019-08-08T01:11:41 < zyp> how many pairs of boobs have you printed so far?
2019-08-08T01:11:45 < bitmask> uhh
2019-08-08T01:11:50 < bitmask> 9?
2019-08-08T01:11:53 < Steffanx> Hah
2019-08-08T01:12:16 < jadew> I like PETG too, but PLA prints neater surfaces
2019-08-08T01:12:21 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/jghntMI.png
2019-08-08T01:12:22 < jadew> they're more... opaque
2019-08-08T01:15:20 < bitmask> ugh why rain, why
2019-08-08T01:15:30 < bitmask> I want to do deliveries but its starting to pour
2019-08-08T01:15:52 < bitmask> usually means more deliveries but I dont feel like being wet
2019-08-08T01:16:10 < Steffanx> Cant close the car's roof?
2019-08-08T01:16:33 < bitmask> theres no tunnel from the car to the restaurant/house
2019-08-08T01:17:03 < Steffanx> Time to print an umbrella
2019-08-08T01:17:10 < bitmask> heh
2019-08-08T01:17:23 < bitmask> who uses an umbrella :/
2019-08-08T01:18:10 < Steffanx> I do
2019-08-08T01:23:15 < mawk> https://pix.watch/tp_Lpn/ZF8cYg.jpeg
2019-08-08T01:23:17 < mawk> look at my pet spider
2019-08-08T01:23:19 < mawk> isn't she super cute
2019-08-08T01:24:15 < jadew> bit your finger?
2019-08-08T01:24:29 < mawk> no lol
2019-08-08T01:24:42 < jadew> we have a snail
2019-08-08T01:24:46 < mawk> a staple did
2019-08-08T01:24:52 < jadew> best pets ever
2019-08-08T01:24:59 < jadew> you can forget about it for weeks and it doesn't die
2019-08-08T01:25:37 < jadew> I guess a spider is the same, as long as you have other insects around
2019-08-08T01:25:43 < jadew> what kind of spider is that?
2019-08-08T01:30:24 < jadew> bitmask, how thick should my wall be?
2019-08-08T01:30:42 < jadew> slic3r says 0.8mm and it generates two perimeters... not sure what's going on there
2019-08-08T01:30:44 < bitmask> wall? for vase mode?
2019-08-08T01:30:47 < jadew> I thought it should have only been one
2019-08-08T01:30:49 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-08T01:31:18 < bitmask> I dont use slic3r but for a 0.4mm nozzle I do a 0.48 line width
2019-08-08T01:31:34 < bitmask> for everything
2019-08-08T01:31:34 < jadew> thanks
2019-08-08T01:31:37 < bitmask> not just vase mode
2019-08-08T01:32:10 < jadew> what do you mean for everything?
2019-08-08T01:32:26 < jadew> that's the multiplier you use for perimeters?
2019-08-08T01:32:32 < jadew> so if you want a wall, it's going to be multiple of that?
2019-08-08T01:32:56 < bitmask> no, not for designing, just for printing, you choose the line width, im sure slic3r has that setting
2019-08-08T01:33:10 < jadew> does not
2019-08-08T01:33:35 < bitmask> if a wall isn't a straight up multiple of that then it will print a thinner line inside to make up for the difference
2019-08-08T01:33:36 < jadew> oh it does
2019-08-08T01:33:39 < jadew> it's 0.42
2019-08-08T01:33:42 < jadew> 0.45
2019-08-08T01:33:44 < jadew> interesting
2019-08-08T01:33:56 < jadew> that's very good to know
2019-08-08T01:33:56 < bitmask> yea I saw somewhere to set it to 0.48 so Ive used that ever since
2019-08-08T01:33:58 < jadew> thanks
2019-08-08T01:34:15 < jadew> seems it's 0.45 for this particular setting that I'm using
2019-08-08T01:34:52 < bitmask> if its not a multiple then theres usually a setting that determines if it prints a thinner wall in between or leaves it empty
2019-08-08T01:35:25 < jadew> jeez, I sure thought it would use less filament
2019-08-08T01:35:27 < jadew> 13 g
2019-08-08T01:35:38 < bitmask> what are you printing?
2019-08-08T01:35:48 < jadew> a cone for my fume extractor
2019-08-08T01:35:52 < bitmask> ahh
2019-08-08T01:36:06 < bitmask> Ive been wanting to print a fume extractor, I even bought activated carbon filters for one
2019-08-08T01:36:24 < bitmask> maybe i'll do that next
2019-08-08T01:36:31 < karlp> what's "vase mode" mean?
2019-08-08T01:36:43 < bitmask> no infill, one single perimeter
2019-08-08T01:36:51 < jadew> I thought about doing that too, but I decided to just run a 100 mm PVC hose to the balcony
2019-08-08T01:36:58 < jadew> and I'm using two fans to drive it
2019-08-08T01:37:00 < zyp> karlp, printed as a single continous spiral
2019-08-08T01:37:02 < jadew> one on the bench and one in the middle
2019-08-08T01:37:37 < jadew> sometimes I get headaches when soldering for longer periods of time
2019-08-08T01:37:42 < jadew> especially when using the heat gun
2019-08-08T01:37:44 < bitmask> I need to print things that go in these metal goosenecks that hold onto alligator clips to finish my helping hands, too much to do
2019-08-08T01:37:57 < jadew> I assume the shit inside FR-4 is to blame
2019-08-08T01:38:43 < bitmask> this print is coming out pretty bad, luckily it doesnt matter, I wonder if its because of the carbon fiber print before it and it messed up the nozzle
2019-08-08T01:40:34 < karlp> zyp: thanks.
2019-08-08T01:40:53 < karlp> cute spider mawk  :)
2019-08-08T01:45:41 < jadew> not sure what I did, but it's doing two perimeters per layer :/
2019-08-08T01:46:21 < jadew> and is not continuous
2019-08-08T01:47:16 < Steffanx> Such vase mode
2019-08-08T01:47:18 < jadew> I'll let it do its thing...
2019-08-08T01:48:02 < bitmask> use cura
2019-08-08T01:48:21 < bitmask> has some neat features
2019-08-08T01:48:26 < jadew> next time maybe
2019-08-08T01:48:28 < bitmask> and so much nicer 
2019-08-08T01:48:52 < bitmask> anyway, I think it stopped raining, time to make a little monies
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2019-08-08T01:57:03 < bitmask> ugh, I get to my car and it started pouring, fuck that, now I'm back inside and soaked
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2019-08-08T02:40:16 < salcedo> woohoo! python-mode submodules finally finished downloading after 4 hours!
2019-08-08T02:40:31 < salcedo> #1stworldUSAinternet
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2019-08-08T03:01:58 < Laurenceb> I've worked it out
2019-08-08T03:02:26 < Laurenceb> Musk plans to colonise Mars using a hareem of autistic latinos
2019-08-08T03:02:35 < Laurenceb> recruited via twitter
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2019-08-08T04:12:37 < Laurenceb> https://endchan.xyz/.media/ae41f32d356e24c3a09527b3c4ffa3ee-imagepng.png
2019-08-08T04:12:40 < Laurenceb> kek
2019-08-08T04:12:53 < Laurenceb> Jim on suicide watch
2019-08-08T04:17:47 < rajkosto> Jim Bean ?
2019-08-08T04:21:16 < jadew> Laurenceb, it's funny because you have to be stupid to think they don't already have that
2019-08-08T04:21:35 < jadew> it's just a media game
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2019-08-08T04:43:24 < bitmask> is opencv free to use commercially?
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2019-08-08T05:59:36 < Ultrasauce> if only it had some sort of license document that provided clear answers to these questions
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2019-08-08T06:39:23 < bitmask> Ultrasauce did you come out of hiding just to be a dick :P
2019-08-08T06:39:49 < bitmask> why read when I can ask here and let you guys look it up
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2019-08-08T07:14:12 < Ultrasauce> yes
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2019-08-08T10:13:10 < jadew> this just arrived: https://cojotech.com/media/images/sma-bulkhead.jpg
2019-08-08T10:13:35 < jadew> for my 8 GHz options
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2019-08-08T12:19:42 < karlp> Damage level?
2019-08-08T12:19:55 < jadew> for what?
2019-08-08T12:20:02 < jadew> oh, you mean the price?
2019-08-08T12:20:25 < karlp> no, I mean, the wording on channel 3 in the picture
2019-08-08T12:20:32 < jadew> oh
2019-08-08T12:20:46 < jadew> hah, right, I didn't notice that
2019-08-08T12:21:20 < jadew> that unit didn't come with a prescaler and they had two different versions available
2019-08-08T12:22:14 < jadew> but if that's the case, it's weird they wrote the 3 GHz spec
2019-08-08T12:22:30 < jadew> oh, it's there, 5 V rms
2019-08-08T12:23:03 < jadew> I haven't slept since yesterday, sorry
2019-08-08T12:23:12 < jadew> you were talking about the "lvl" thing :)
2019-08-08T12:23:17 < jadew> right?
2019-08-08T12:24:03 < karlp> and the choice of "Damage" 
2019-08-08T12:24:17 < jadew> seems to be written like that everywhere, I guess they tried to be consistent
2019-08-08T12:24:48 < karlp> just not a word choice I'm used to seeing
2019-08-08T12:26:21 < jadew> checked my other instruments too
2019-08-08T12:26:59 < jadew> on most of them it says "Max" or "max level"
2019-08-08T12:27:51 < jadew> I like "damage" better
2019-08-08T12:28:30 < jadew> it communicates both the maximum level and what happens if you go above it
2019-08-08T12:34:44 < karlp> yeah, I'm more used to max
2019-08-08T12:42:01 < jadew> I'm super hungry, I've been waiting for that connector all night
2019-08-08T12:42:20 < jadew> and I forgot to eat
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2019-08-08T13:06:16 < jly> same
2019-08-08T13:08:04 < jadew> I just ate some sour cream
2019-08-08T13:08:34 < jadew> not sure why I feel the need to do this, but I'm eating like 1/4 kg of sour cream every day
2019-08-08T13:09:10 < jadew> Haohmaru, it's that thing made from milk
2019-08-08T13:09:33 < jadew> and it's sour
2019-08-08T13:09:55 < jadew> yeah, this is thicker
2019-08-08T13:10:00 < jadew> but the same idea
2019-08-08T13:13:21 < jadew> since I eat that much lately, I found that it keeps you full, but you also lose weight
2019-08-08T13:15:00 < jadew> (probably why it's used in various diets too)
2019-08-08T13:25:42 < englishman> huh, st made sh4 chips
2019-08-08T13:57:10 < zyp> damage level sounds like the level it'd be guaranteed to get damaged at, not the level it's guaranteed to withstand before getting damaged
2019-08-08T13:57:45 < jadew> zyp, so 4.(9) Vrms is ok?
2019-08-08T13:58:22 < jadew> max levels are specified the same in datasheets
2019-08-08T13:58:39 < jadew> it can work at that level, but it will probably fail
2019-08-08T13:59:12 < zyp> kinda like how pyrotechnic igniters have two specifications; one level they're guaranteed no ignition at (used for low test currents for checking connectivity) and one level they are guaranteed to ignite at
2019-08-08T13:59:39 < zyp> and then you have an area in between where behavior is uncertain
2019-08-08T14:00:32 < jadew> see, the fact that you see it as more dangerous, it means it's getting the message across
2019-08-08T14:00:40 < jadew> "don't reach this level"
2019-08-08T14:00:57 < jadew> IIRC in the datasheet it's specified as max level
2019-08-08T14:00:59 < jadew> let me check
2019-08-08T14:01:04 < zyp> no, it means that it's a useless measure :)
2019-08-08T14:01:14 < zyp> unless you're actively trying to damage it
2019-08-08T14:02:00 < jadew> not really useless, you could measure 4.5 Vrms and think "ok, this is below 5, should be good"
2019-08-08T14:02:28 < zyp> you're missing my point
2019-08-08T14:03:10 < zyp> what matters isn't what levels are dangerous, what matters are what levels are safe
2019-08-08T14:03:41 < jadew> so your argument is that it's not clear?
2019-08-08T14:04:32 < jadew> hmm, in the datasheet is also specified as damage level
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2019-08-08T14:09:40 < jadew> looks like mouser changes prices very often
2019-08-08T14:12:59 < jadew> time for bed, night
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2019-08-08T16:20:16 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49249575
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2019-08-08T16:28:29 < karlp> why on earth can't python datetime.timedelta do units of months?!
2019-08-08T16:29:36 < zyp> presumably because a month is an ambiguous amount of time
2019-08-08T16:30:16 < zyp> a week is always 7 days, a month can be 28-31 days
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2019-08-08T16:32:00 < karlp> I guess, I just want to iterate 1..12 anyway, from my starting point, 
2019-08-08T16:32:45 < zyp> calculating with months in general is pretty annoying
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2019-08-08T18:28:39 < jadew> karlp, what did you eventually do?
2019-08-08T18:33:55 < karlp> https://zerobin.net/?a909b91b1c3ce806#4G6I1AqJHeF2HnW1Ei8jEb1nOvNoIT3fbSL30Zs9No0=
2019-08-08T18:35:13 < karlp> gen_query_mains uses the y-m parameters to construct sql clauses with y-m-1 00:00:00 sort of thing
2019-08-08T18:35:22 < karlp> "works" 
2019-08-08T18:35:32 < jadew> sounds like a decent solution
2019-08-08T18:35:38 < jadew> datetime problems are always weird
2019-08-08T18:50:44 < mrus> trying to switch from Gentoo over to macos for developing on the L476RG that I have here.. errr, does anyone know what device I can launch screen with in order to get the output from the Nucleo? On Linux that was /dev/ttyACM0
2019-08-08T18:51:31 < effractur> mrus: list /dev to find the correct name
2019-08-08T18:51:49 < effractur> mrus: probaly something along the same 
2019-08-08T18:52:06 < bitmask> gentoo is still a thing?
2019-08-08T18:52:25 < effractur> bitmask: quite big even
2019-08-08T18:52:34 < salcedo> isn't chromeos based on gentoo?
2019-08-08T18:52:34 < effractur> bitmask: chromeos is a wrapper on gentoo for example
2019-08-08T18:54:17 < mrus> effractur: I did a ls -1 while the board was connected and another one while it wasn't anymore and diffed the outputs - no differences. Any other idea?
2019-08-08T18:54:40 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
2019-08-08T18:55:07 < effractur> mrus: missing driver?
2019-08-08T18:55:11 < effractur> mrus: what is the chipset?
2019-08-08T18:57:09 < effractur> mrus: and you have the stlink stuff installed?
2019-08-08T18:57:17 < karlp> mrus: /dev/cu.something I think...
2019-08-08T18:57:42 < mrus> https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/nucleo-l476rg.html# <- "Tools & Software" doesn't show anything related to a MacOS driver
2019-08-08T18:57:53 < Laurenceb> who uses that
2019-08-08T18:57:56 < mrus> effractur: yeah, brewed stlink and all that
2019-08-08T18:58:58 < karlp> could also be /dev/tty.usb*
2019-08-08T18:59:06 < effractur> mrus: list /dev
2019-08-08T18:59:11 < effractur> plugin the device
2019-08-08T18:59:16 < effractur> list /dev again
2019-08-08T18:59:20 < effractur> the one that is new is your
2019-08-08T19:00:10 < mrus> yup, did that, nothing changed.. however, karlp, there is are two cu. devices permanently there: /dev/cu.usbmodem01234567891     /dev/cu.usbmodem14303
2019-08-08T19:00:41 < mrus> ah, it seems to be the latter
2019-08-08T19:01:25 < karlp> mrus: so.... yes, one of them did change then?
2019-08-08T19:01:33 < mrus> yess, adjusted screen settings, now it shows readable text
2019-08-08T19:01:52 < mrus> they both are here all the time it seems
2019-08-08T19:02:01 < mrus> no matter whether the board is connected or not
2019-08-08T19:02:17 < mrus> maybe I should reboot this mac once in a while
2019-08-08T19:02:51 < mrus> thanks!
2019-08-08T19:03:41 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/2R7itLM.png 
2019-08-08T19:03:47 < bitmask> the stringing is ridiculous
2019-08-08T19:04:35 < mrus> it is indeed
2019-08-08T19:05:15 < bitmask> I need a new extruder
2019-08-08T19:05:29 < mrus> did you print the printer yourself btw?
2019-08-08T19:05:49 < bitmask> yea, replaced a lot of the acrylic pieces
2019-08-08T19:05:55 < mrus> that's cool
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2019-08-08T19:07:04 < mrus> it's like using Jenkins to test Jenkins. Or using GCC to build GCC, heh.
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2019-08-08T19:07:27 < karlp> gcc is used to build gcc.... :)
2019-08-08T19:07:57 < mrus> yes, I know. Jenkins is also used to test Jenkins. :) I just find it funny.
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2019-08-08T19:21:08 < bitmask> Cracki 
2019-08-08T19:21:11 < bitmask> what are you doing in opencv
2019-08-08T19:21:18 < Cracki> i run the place
2019-08-08T19:21:24 < bitmask> help me
2019-08-08T19:21:41 < bitmask> I need to detect square shapes
2019-08-08T19:22:09 < Cracki> pics or gtfo
2019-08-08T19:22:20 < bitmask> ?
2019-08-08T19:22:35 < Cracki> do you ahve any idea in how many ways "square shapes" can be interpreted?
2019-08-08T19:22:59 < bitmask> hough lines?
2019-08-08T19:23:12 < Cracki> depends. usually a bad choice.
2019-08-08T19:23:19 < Cracki> what square shapes do you speak of
2019-08-08T19:23:19 < bitmask> shape detector class?
2019-08-08T19:23:26 < Cracki> that's an abstract thing
2019-08-08T19:23:26 < bitmask> for example a picture frame
2019-08-08T19:23:30 < bitmask> from the users the camera
2019-08-08T19:23:32 < bitmask> (android)
2019-08-08T19:23:44 < Cracki> ok so a 3d scene is involved
2019-08-08T19:23:48 < bitmask> yes
2019-08-08T19:24:09 < Cracki> and a camera, instead of a flatbed scanner or a pixel-perfectly rendered GUI
2019-08-08T19:24:18 < bitmask> right
2019-08-08T19:24:21 < Cracki> and the squares, can they be rectangular?
2019-08-08T19:24:25 < bitmask> yes
2019-08-08T19:24:28 < bitmask> i meant that
2019-08-08T19:24:30 < bitmask> :)
2019-08-08T19:24:44 < Cracki> can you show an example of what you mean
2019-08-08T19:24:52 < bitmask> I figured doing a sobel or full canny edge detection was a good start
2019-08-08T19:25:32 < bitmask> well just say the user has a picture frame on a table in front of them, with the camera I want it to be detected
2019-08-08T19:26:05 < Cracki> detecting a picture (textured area) could be easier
2019-08-08T19:26:21 < bitmask> nope, has to be a rectangle
2019-08-08T19:26:41 < bitmask> I would think doing canny edge detection and then do hough lines to detect the edges should work decently, no?
2019-08-08T19:26:52 < Cracki> can you paint the frame or put some kind of markers on it?
2019-08-08T19:26:57 < bitmask> yes
2019-08-08T19:27:00 < bitmask> I was thinking of markers
2019-08-08T19:27:19 < bitmask> or highlighting possible choices and the user clicks the correct outline
2019-08-08T19:27:39 < Cracki> going from lines to "rectangle!" is usually tricky
2019-08-08T19:27:52 < Cracki> because that assumes that you can somehow associate the right lines in the right way
2019-08-08T19:28:17 < bitmask> well if you can find two sets of parallel lines that intersect?
2019-08-08T19:28:20 < Cracki> it's easier to work with nice contrast, either in brightness or in saturation or even hue
2019-08-08T19:28:27 < bitmask> or with perspective
2019-08-08T19:28:41 < bitmask> do you know what canny edge detection does?
2019-08-08T19:28:44 < Cracki> yes
2019-08-08T19:28:54 < bitmask> thats pure contrast
2019-08-08T19:28:59 < bitmask> its black or white
2019-08-08T19:29:10 < Cracki> that's the output of it
2019-08-08T19:29:27 < bitmask> yes
2019-08-08T19:29:28 < Cracki> eh, maybe try this https://www.pyimagesearch.com/2014/09/01/build-kick-ass-mobile-document-scanner-just-5-minutes/
2019-08-08T19:29:36 < Cracki> I'm almost sure it won't help but maybe it does
2019-08-08T19:29:44 < bitmask> what do you mean its the output of it
2019-08-08T19:29:56 < Cracki> do you know what canny edge detection does?
2019-08-08T19:30:01 < bitmask> of course
2019-08-08T19:30:11 < bitmask> ive used it before
2019-08-08T19:30:15 < Cracki> then you know that the output is black and white
2019-08-08T19:30:19 < bitmask> yes
2019-08-08T19:30:25 < bitmask> yes i said that
2019-08-08T19:30:37 < Cracki> so "black or white" is the output of it
2019-08-08T19:30:41 < bitmask> isnt that a good thing for this?
2019-08-08T19:30:52  * Cracki is channeling some Loriot
2019-08-08T19:31:18 < Cracki> impossible to answer unless you show me a frame
2019-08-08T19:31:48 < Cracki> dark frame on dark background? bad.
2019-08-08T19:32:08 < Cracki> canny works on grayscale input, so in *such* a case we'd have to talk about color space fuckery
2019-08-08T19:32:18 < Cracki> hence "pics or gtfo"
2019-08-08T19:32:40 < Cracki> a nice neon pink painted frame with some thickness to it could be easy to work with
2019-08-08T19:32:58 < bitmask> I think shadows/highlights will give enough input to get an outline, you can mess with the hysteresis anyway
2019-08-08T19:33:18 < bitmask> lets just say the user knows to give it contrast
2019-08-08T19:33:28 < bitmask> lets start there
2019-08-08T19:33:36 < bitmask> best case scenario
2019-08-08T19:33:58 < Cracki> anyone who shows up with "canny, hough transform, template matching" is impossible to convince that those are the wrong approaches in 95% of cases
2019-08-08T19:34:12 < Cracki> because those are magic words
2019-08-08T19:34:23 < Cracki> contrast is one thing
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2019-08-08T19:34:48 < Cracki> but you want contrast only towards the thing you want, and not randomly in the background
2019-08-08T19:34:56 < bitmask> umm I asked you what you thought would work, you haven't given me any ideas thats why I gave my own ideas. dont tell me I'm not open to suggestions when thats exactly what I asked for
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2019-08-08T19:35:04 < Cracki> :P
2019-08-08T19:35:27 < Cracki> the link above would work ok with a good segmentation
2019-08-08T19:35:34 < Cracki> assuming the frame can be segmented
2019-08-08T19:36:02 < bitmask> i'll check the link out
2019-08-08T19:36:03 < Cracki> the dude applies canny to *enhance* edges
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2019-08-08T19:36:41 < bitmask> just as an example, this is where I got hough from: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10533233/opencv-c-obj-c-advanced-square-detection
2019-08-08T19:36:58 < bitmask> the upvoted answer talks about it
2019-08-08T19:37:26 < Cracki> simplifying a contour is what the pyimagesearch dude does in the article
2019-08-08T19:37:42 < Cracki> hough transform is kinda brute force
2019-08-08T19:38:08 < bitmask> ok
2019-08-08T19:38:17 < Cracki> the SO link also contains a solution using findcontours and approxpolydp
2019-08-08T19:38:24 < Cracki> (same as pyimgsrch)
2019-08-08T19:38:51 < Thorn> wtf why does i.mx rt come in 0.65mm bga
2019-08-08T19:39:04 < Cracki> the top rated answer on that SO does its own thresholding, which is idiotic
2019-08-08T19:39:05 < Thorn> doesn't that require an HDI board?
2019-08-08T19:39:09 < Cracki> opencv has a bunch of functions for that
2019-08-08T19:39:39 < bitmask> ok
2019-08-08T19:39:44 < Cracki> nvm, that was the question, not the first answer. SO is getting difficult to parse
2019-08-08T19:40:32 < Cracki> one of them mention otsu thresholding either
2019-08-08T19:40:48 < Cracki> that's something a newbie should know about, not canny and hough transform
2019-08-08T19:41:49 < Cracki> the bad thing about opencv's canny is that it implictly calculates the gradient, instead of assuming that's the input
2019-08-08T19:43:45 < Cracki> canny itself does thresholding with hysteresis and non-maximum suppression. the idea is simple, and is most useful on an input that's "sparse" like gradient data is, but it'd be more useful to NOT calculate the gradient implicitly
2019-08-08T19:44:33 < Cracki> Thorn, what's so outrageous about 0.65mm bga?
2019-08-08T19:45:10 < Thorn> what kind of pcb will that take
2019-08-08T19:45:24 < Cracki> because you're worried about the fanout? or something else?
2019-08-08T19:45:25 < Thorn> they have no empty spaces for vias either
2019-08-08T19:45:37 < Cracki> how many rings counted from the outside?
2019-08-08T19:46:43 < Thorn> https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/package-information/98ASA01088D.pdf
2019-08-08T19:47:02 < Cracki> I remember some appnote a few weeks ago where they showed some design patterns for given pitches and number of rings
2019-08-08T19:47:08 < Cracki> heck
2019-08-08T19:47:21 < Cracki> that's hariy
2019-08-08T19:47:26 < Thorn> 14x14 grid, 0.65
2019-08-08T19:47:34 < Thorn> no empty space in the grid
2019-08-08T19:47:55 < Cracki> I'd try hitting up their customer support
2019-08-08T19:48:02 < Thorn> the chips themselves are cheap and easy enough to use except for the package
2019-08-08T19:48:23 < Thorn> this looks like something that should come on a SOM lol
2019-08-08T19:48:23 < Cracki> here's *something* by nxp: https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/application-note/AN10778.pdf
2019-08-08T19:48:51 < Cracki> ah, that's the one for 4-ring bgas, so not applicable
2019-08-08T19:49:35 < Cracki> 7 "rings", that could require four signal layers
2019-08-08T19:49:48 < Cracki> unless that ball grid has lots of thermal and power in the middle
2019-08-08T19:50:29 < Thorn> plus via in pad to reach those layers
2019-08-08T19:51:14 < Cracki> not applicable either, but ti has "channels" (no-balls) to make space for vias... http://www.ti.com.cn/cn/lit/an/slda021a/slda021a.pdf
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2019-08-08T19:53:44 < Cracki> this has an example of a 256-ball one https://www.latticesemi.com/~/media/LatticeSemi/Documents/ApplicationNotes/PT/PCBLayoutRecommendationsforBGAPackages.pdf?document_id=671
2019-08-08T19:53:57 < Cracki> still with some unballed spaces but not much
2019-08-08T19:54:28 < Cracki> ugh, nxp needs to explain itself
2019-08-08T19:55:28 < Thorn> Via Channel™ is a good idea yes
2019-08-08T19:55:29 < karlp> they're assuming that modern pcb makers have modern pcbs
2019-08-08T19:55:52 < karlp> and they're probably generally correct, given that "high density" bgas are now what, 0.3mm or something?
2019-08-08T19:56:11 < Cracki> do you have a document detailing the signal/power for each ball?
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2019-08-08T19:56:58 < Cracki> some of what I see shows a lot of power and ground that only needs vias but no space for traces
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2019-08-08T19:57:15 < Thorn> https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/nxp/data-sheets/IMXRT1060IEC.pdf page 86 
2019-08-08T19:58:39 < Thorn> looks like they also have a 0.8mm option
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2019-08-08T20:24:47 < salcedo> Processed Through Facility, Your item has been processed through a facility in DONGGUAN, CHINA
2019-08-08T20:25:18 < salcedo> dongs: ^ you own a whole city in china? that's awesome.
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2019-08-08T20:57:31 < karlp> 47  205.061    4.363  205.061    4.363 {method 'acquire' of '_thread.lock' objects}
2019-08-08T20:57:53 < karlp> whatever, twice as fast as before, just not as fast as it should be.
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2019-08-08T21:25:46 < Steffanx> bitmask: wanna see the spin on your pen plotter I've been building?
2019-08-08T21:25:58 < bitmask> yes
2019-08-08T21:26:50 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/a/JBH2Ak5
2019-08-08T21:29:37 < bitmask> very nice, I wish I had money for metal stuff :P
2019-08-08T21:30:29 < bitmask> one day
2019-08-08T21:31:06 < Steffanx> :)
2019-08-08T21:31:37 < bitmask> whatcha doing with the machine?
2019-08-08T21:32:06 < Steffanx> Now I watch the vid myself and now I'm wondering why there is a screw missing. Lol.
2019-08-08T21:32:26 < Steffanx> Just cnc stuff 
2019-08-08T21:32:55 < bitmask> wood, metal, plastic? all of the above?
2019-08-08T21:33:21 < Steffanx> The plan is all of the above. Where metal is aluminium obviously
2019-08-08T21:33:28 < bitmask> right
2019-08-08T21:33:31 < bitmask> nice
2019-08-08T21:42:32 < jadew> Steffanx, you built that? it looks nice
2019-08-08T21:46:07 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/Uj7PB5L.jpg
2019-08-08T21:47:40 < Steffanx> Yes i did jadew
2019-08-08T21:47:46 < jadew> nice
2019-08-08T21:47:51 < jadew> how big is it?
2019-08-08T21:48:48 < Steffanx> the outer dimensions are like 80x90cm.
2019-08-08T21:49:18 < jadew> that sounds extremely useful
2019-08-08T21:49:46 < Steffanx> it can only cut like 60x60 of that.
2019-08-08T21:49:53 < Steffanx> drill/mill/whatever
2019-08-08T21:50:07 < jadew> neat
2019-08-08T21:50:11 < jadew> what can you mill with it?
2019-08-08T21:50:16 < Steffanx> idk yet.
2019-08-08T21:50:41 < Steffanx> the plan was aluminium, but haven't tried it yet.
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2019-08-08T22:45:53 < jadew> Steffanx, the pen thing is the first test?
2019-08-08T22:46:13 < jadew> or did you get other stuff done?
2019-08-08T22:56:31 < Steffanx> It's a semi first test. I started with a pen test, concluded the base plate at a small angle, so I milled 2 mill off and did this test.
2019-08-08T23:05:25 < qyx> since when it is not possible to copy&paste direct imgur links
2019-08-08T23:05:46 < jadew> what do you mean?
2019-08-08T23:06:11 < qyx> idk, it gave me blob:https://imgur.com/1e6365b4-96fe-4bdc-a8b5-03b3a8401026
2019-08-08T23:06:13 < qyx> for some reason
2019-08-08T23:06:41 < qyx> when you right click an image and select copy image location
2019-08-08T23:06:53 < qyx> but now it works
2019-08-08T23:06:54 < qyx> meh
2019-08-08T23:06:57 < Steffanx> lol
2019-08-08T23:10:26 < jadew> works for me
2019-08-08T23:10:29 < Thorn> qyx: wait until the image is fully uploaded / processed
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2019-08-08T23:49:40 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-08_22-49-26_mvwhoM7Hv.jpg
2019-08-08T23:50:01 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-08_22-49-56_phOO0f1sA.png did i get all of them
2019-08-08T23:50:14 < Steffanx> Damn
2019-08-08T23:50:44 < Steffanx> I would've made a pcb :P
2019-08-08T23:51:01 < rajkosto> takes too long
2019-08-08T23:51:15 < jadew> hah, nice!
2019-08-08T23:51:18 < rajkosto> but it was complicated enough where i couldnt just do it by remembering
2019-08-08T23:51:28 < rajkosto> so i draw schematic and routed in altium using vias only
2019-08-08T23:51:55 < jadew> a lot of wasted solder
2019-08-08T23:52:08 < jadew> hope you used the cheap roll
2019-08-08T23:52:10 < rajkosto> no wires on the back side, all uses solder
2019-08-08T23:52:22 < Steffanx> > takes too long :D
2019-08-08T23:52:28 < rajkosto> yes like weeks
2019-08-08T23:52:40 < jadew> I'm about to do the same
2019-08-08T23:52:49 < rajkosto> i would have made a single sided pcb
2019-08-08T23:52:53 < jadew> not sure if I'm going to etch it or do it on a proto board like that
2019-08-08T23:52:55 < rajkosto> but my UV reactive roll
2019-08-08T23:52:57 < rajkosto> has expired
2019-08-08T23:53:00 < rajkosto> its all UV reacted-out
2019-08-08T23:53:28 < jadew> I forgot I have UV roll
2019-08-08T23:53:35 < jadew> I think I'll etch it
2019-08-08T23:53:42 < rajkosto> the UV roll is to protect the etch
2019-08-08T23:53:56 < rajkosto> they expire after some years apparently
2019-08-08T23:54:06 < jadew> didn't know that, will have to hurry :)
2019-08-08T23:54:18 < rajkosto> yeah its already pre-darkened
2019-08-08T23:54:21 < rajkosto> even tho its in its black bag
2019-08-08T23:54:35 < rajkosto> so the thing that removes the undarkened UV doesnt remove it anymore
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2019-08-08T23:56:23 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-08_22-56-13_fKPwrUCtW.jpg etched
2019-08-08T23:56:34 < rajkosto> thats the last thing i etched, lotta dust
2019-08-08T23:57:06 < rajkosto> so thats why the roll expired
2019-08-08T23:57:15 < jadew> now I remembered why I had the $80 bottle of tinning solution in my cart
2019-08-08T23:57:30 < rajkosto> it tins itself
2019-08-08T23:57:33 < rajkosto> as i soldered
2019-08-08T23:57:41 < jadew> everywhere?
2019-08-08T23:57:43 < rajkosto> even when you dont want it
2019-08-08T23:57:51 < rajkosto> yeah well once it got everywhere i decided to just do it on the sides as well
2019-08-08T23:58:00 < rajkosto> copper rusts
--- Day changed Fri Aug 09 2019
2019-08-09T00:00:36 < rajkosto> biggest thing i did was 20cmx10cm double sided (with plating!)
2019-08-09T00:00:40 < rajkosto> never again
2019-08-09T00:01:32 < jadew> I think I did a similar one, but no plating
2019-08-09T00:01:52 < machinehum> Is there some library that I can use with make for the samd21
2019-08-09T00:01:53 < jadew> that was my last lab power supply project
2019-08-09T00:02:07 < machinehum> Even some dumb arduino thing would be fine
2019-08-09T00:02:12 < machinehum> But not using their IDE
2019-08-09T00:04:53 < rajkosto> i missed a soldier bridge
2019-08-09T00:05:11 < rajkosto> pretty hard to detect them when its all shiny
2019-08-09T00:05:44 < salcedo> machinehum: libopencm3
2019-08-09T00:07:04 < salcedo> machinehum: check libopencm3-examples and libopencm3-template for a makefile starter
2019-08-09T00:07:35 < karlp> not much d21 stuff in locm3, just enough for blinks really.
2019-08-09T00:07:38 < salcedo> if you want to stay in arduino land w/samd21 but don't want to use the ide, there is also platformio
2019-08-09T00:13:33 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-08_23-13-16_5wEcHocsV.jpg the other side btw ;)
2019-08-09T00:14:18 < jadew> rajkosto, neat
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2019-08-09T00:45:00 < boB_K7IQ> https://www.aisec.fraunhofer.de/en/FirmwareProtection.html
2019-08-09T00:50:05 < Cracki> yeh that keeps circulating. a fun paper
2019-08-09T00:52:25 < catphish> nice hackings
2019-08-09T00:53:44 < boB_K7IQ> :)
2019-08-09T01:03:04 < Thorn> who needs something like this. looks like a weird chip http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm5008.pdf
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2019-08-09T01:07:53 < Thorn> a friend got a panel of modules with this IC https://i.imgur.com/UlmmKam.jpg
2019-08-09T01:08:16 < Laurenceb> cuckwheels, one act of cuckoldry per turn
2019-08-09T01:21:51 < rajkosto> https://hackaday.com/2017/01/20/cheating-at-5v-ws2812-control-to-use-a-3-3v-data-line/ wtf
2019-08-09T01:21:57 < rajkosto> dont they just accept 3.3V DIN
2019-08-09T01:22:02 < Laurenceb> >hackaday
2019-08-09T01:22:13 < Laurenceb> the 4chan of diy
2019-08-09T01:24:22 < Laurenceb> lef flashing for drooling retards
2019-08-09T01:25:18 < Laurenceb> *led
2019-08-09T01:25:19 < Laurenceb> https://apple.slashdot.org/story/19/08/08/1722204/apple-is-locking-batteries-to-specific-iphones-a-nightmare-for-diy-repair
2019-08-09T01:25:39 < Laurenceb> >Apple CEO Tim Cook acknowledged earlier this year that battery replacements are resulting in fewer people buying new iPhones, which has affected Apple's bottom line
2019-08-09T01:25:44 < Laurenceb> keeek the absolute state
2019-08-09T01:27:47 < specing> WhoCouldHaveSeenItCOming(tm)
2019-08-09T01:30:26 < Cracki> I've driven ws2812 down to around 3.0 volts (supply and signal) before... and that's where the arduino stops ticking!
2019-08-09T01:30:37 < Cracki> not sure what the fuck they need to sacrifice there
2019-08-09T01:31:05 < Cracki> ah, 0.7 Vcc is the problem! 
2019-08-09T01:32:36 < Cracki> lol not bad, what they're doing!
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2019-08-09T01:36:45 < Cracki> I might have tried what i2c FM+ does, ~1k pullup and open drain output
2019-08-09T02:06:24 < jadew> lol, linkedin has removed the ability to see your profile page as others see it
2019-08-09T02:07:11 < jadew> and if you try to open it in incognito it asks you to login
2019-08-09T02:07:22 < jadew> I wonder if they're planning to sell
2019-08-09T02:07:36 < jadew> (and they do this to increase the number of users)
2019-08-09T02:08:06 < Cracki> everyone, get two logins to get your look in the mirror!
2019-08-09T02:08:21 < jadew> seems like it, yeah
2019-08-09T02:08:33 < Cracki> who'd they sell this thing to anyway
2019-08-09T02:08:53 < Cracki> faceberg?
2019-08-09T02:09:14 < Cracki> fb has no growth
2019-08-09T02:17:05 < rajkosto> huh, ws2812b datasheet says reset time is anything > 50uS and websites on the net say that as low as 9uS is ok
2019-08-09T02:17:41 < rajkosto> but i need to wait 273uS 
2019-08-09T02:17:59 < rajkosto> or the leds just dont update
2019-08-09T02:19:24 < Laurenceb> https://endchan.xyz/.media/9c7eb44e8ffdf2eb793f4c13f955ea67-videowebm.webm
2019-08-09T02:20:27 < rajkosto> Laurenceb, i know what video that's from
2019-08-09T02:21:07 < Cracki> I read about a new revision to the ws2812b that isn't labeled. it also raised the latch time
2019-08-09T02:21:18 < rajkosto> Laurenceb, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iknh6sQtDnM&feature=youtu.be&t=21
2019-08-09T02:21:37 < rajkosto> maybe the time needs to be longer the more leds you have ?
2019-08-09T02:22:00 < Cracki> https://blog.particle.io/2017/05/11/heads-up-ws2812b-neopixels-are-about-to-change/
2019-08-09T02:22:02 < Cracki> ^
2019-08-09T02:22:06 < Cracki> no
2019-08-09T02:22:11 < Cracki> probably that
2019-08-09T02:22:52 < Cracki> they apparently did that so people don't have to disable interrupts while bitbanging their shit
2019-08-09T02:23:18 < Laurenceb> rajkosto: cool thanks
2019-08-09T02:26:15 < rajkosto> Cracki, why would you change this
2019-08-09T02:26:19 < rajkosto> while keeping product number the same wtf
2019-08-09T02:26:29 < rajkosto> it breaks software compat
2019-08-09T02:26:43 < Cracki> me?! I would make them use something that's less dependent on timing
2019-08-09T02:26:48 < Cracki> nah, that was in 2017
2019-08-09T02:27:03 < Cracki> all the fucky tardweeno libs long ago updated their DELAY LOOPS
2019-08-09T02:27:07 < rajkosto> yet i tested on one strip
2019-08-09T02:27:10 < Cracki> at least I think it's that
2019-08-09T02:27:12 < rajkosto> and 12uS worked
2019-08-09T02:27:18 < Cracki> then you got old shit
2019-08-09T02:27:23 < rajkosto> tried another
2019-08-09T02:27:27 < rajkosto> no bueno
2019-08-09T02:27:30 < Cracki> then you got the new shit
2019-08-09T02:27:48 < rajkosto> i got both shits
2019-08-09T02:27:58 < rajkosto> imagine all those remote control chinese cheap controllers that need to be updated but have no means to
2019-08-09T02:28:26 < Cracki> I do wonder what the purpose of that latch time is... block interrupts for one pixel of data, then release it briefly to give ISRs a chance, then block again?
2019-08-09T02:28:54 < Cracki> and you think the chinese are sad about having to sell you ANOTHER of those?
2019-08-09T02:28:56 < rajkosto> the copy of latched data to actual PWM controller only happens on "Reset"
2019-08-09T02:29:04 < rajkosto> so that all the LEDs update in sync
2019-08-09T02:29:35 < Cracki> yes sure but why even 50 us, when bit times are ~1.25 us
2019-08-09T02:29:49 < Cracki> hm right, 24 bits * 1.25 us, that's ~30 us
2019-08-09T02:30:03 < Cracki> but still, bits are short or long, space (missing bit) can't confuse the fucker
2019-08-09T02:30:28 < Cracki> there's no reason to increase this, or even have it at 50 us
2019-08-09T02:30:53 < Cracki> unless it's so dumb microcontrollers can pause for ISRs during bitbanging
2019-08-09T02:31:35 < rajkosto> its so theres no spurious resets
2019-08-09T02:31:49 < Cracki> maybe a popular chip and popular shitpile of software happens to have mandatory ISRs that are just that long
2019-08-09T02:32:04 < rajkosto> it was 9us before btw
2019-08-09T02:32:11 < rajkosto> 50 was just what was in the datasheet
2019-08-09T02:32:15 < rajkosto> now it seems its actually around 270
2019-08-09T02:32:31 < Cracki> hm right, I see those 9 us too now
2019-08-09T02:33:08 < Cracki> maybe 9us weren't enough for arduino's millis() interrupt :>
2019-08-09T02:34:52 < Laurenceb> keek
2019-08-09T02:34:52 < rajkosto> well imagine you had 1000 of them
2019-08-09T02:35:03 < rajkosto> and your spi dma buffer isnt large enough to feed all 1000 at the same time
2019-08-09T02:35:07 < Cracki> https://wp.josh.com/2014/05/13/ws2812-neopixels-are-not-so-finicky-once-you-get-to-know-them/
2019-08-09T02:35:09 < rajkosto> you would have only 9us to reload and restart
2019-08-09T02:35:23 < Cracki> so do it asynchronously
2019-08-09T02:35:31 < Laurenceb> so much blinkenlights
2019-08-09T02:35:31 < Cracki> wait for the "dma complete" flag
2019-08-09T02:35:50 < Cracki> that's why buffers have half-filled watermarks and all that
2019-08-09T02:37:33 < rajkosto> apa102 fixes all this problems anyway
2019-08-09T02:38:53 < Cracki> i don't see them sold as "pixels" on aliex, only bare components or strips
2019-08-09T02:39:15 < Cracki> (pixel being a pcb, the led, a cap and resistor)
2019-08-09T02:39:23 < rajkosto> there's circular ones for apa102
2019-08-09T02:39:38 < salcedo> isn't "neopixels" strictly an adafruit thing?
2019-08-09T02:39:47 < Cracki> nobody knows
2019-08-09T02:40:05 < Cracki> I'm asking because those leds on a board are easy to glue onto/into things and solder up
2019-08-09T02:40:16 < Laurenceb> aidsfruit
2019-08-09T02:40:48 < Cracki> good soldering exercise/torture
2019-08-09T02:40:55 < rajkosto> ```I’ve tried lots and lots of NeoPixels and WS2812’s and I can not find one that needs more than 6us of low signal to latch. If you find one that needs longer, please let me know!```
2019-08-09T02:40:57 < rajkosto> all these articles
2019-08-09T02:40:58 < Laurenceb> >8chan b&   >everyone moves to endchan
2019-08-09T02:40:59 < rajkosto> need to be updated
2019-08-09T02:41:05 < Laurenceb> wtf they really got us this tiem
2019-08-09T02:41:13 < Cracki> >2014
2019-08-09T02:41:15 < Cracki> there's your answer
2019-08-09T02:41:36 < salcedo> 2014 was the end of everything for the most part.
2019-08-09T02:41:51 < salcedo> it was peak maker blog
2019-08-09T02:41:52 < Laurenceb> yeah 2014-2017 was peak internets
2019-08-09T02:42:09 < Laurenceb> now everything is being shut down/shittified
2019-08-09T02:42:50 < salcedo> i've yet to tyr out the ws2812's. :(
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2019-08-09T02:43:10 < salcedo> but they seem very interesting. no use case for them.
2019-08-09T02:43:55 < Cracki> except for blinkenlights, I don't see a use either
2019-08-09T02:44:16 < salcedo> i suppose if i had a job where i made signs and stuff, there would be a use case.
2019-08-09T02:45:01 < salcedo> or maybe design some strips to sell on tindie. undercut neopixels. call them morpheuspixels and sell for 1/2 price.
2019-08-09T02:45:34 < Cracki> they have sharp r/g/b peaks, not good if you expect "white" to illuminate things like white light is supposed to (blackbody spectrum is good, which the white LEDs try to approximate with phosphorus)
2019-08-09T02:47:00 < salcedo> now what would be kind of cool is to glue strips to a vehicle
2019-08-09T02:47:07 < Cracki> anyone know a dual voltage PSU (closed/perforated frame) with 5 and 12 volts, where the *12* volts have an adjustment? I only see ones where the 5v get a pot
2019-08-09T02:47:23 < salcedo> get a 360 degree camera
2019-08-09T02:47:59 < Cracki> and then do like nick fury's flying fortress?
2019-08-09T02:48:02 < salcedo> then the strips all over the vehicle - somewhat spaced out by like 4-6 inches
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2019-08-09T02:48:35 < Cracki> for that you want tight packing and maybe some diffusion or else it hurts
2019-08-09T02:48:38 < salcedo> then decimate the 360 degree camera's image down to the LEDs... and the entire car becomes a "screen"
2019-08-09T02:49:07 < salcedo> yea probably tight packing
2019-08-09T02:49:11 < salcedo> that would be millions of leds
2019-08-09T02:49:18 < Laurenceb> tfw someone uses an arduino https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/index.php?title=Alexander_Jahans&oldid=933589#/media/File:Jahans.jpg
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2019-08-09T02:50:02 < Cracki> good luck. to make the effect good, you need *one* observer you calculate the view for. otherwise it's either a huge blur or a more or less inverted picture with obvious detects near the object's (car's) boundaries
2019-08-09T02:50:22 < Cracki> humongous knockers
2019-08-09T02:51:17 < Cracki> >wants to be gulag'd
2019-08-09T02:51:28 < salcedo> yea :(
2019-08-09T02:51:53 < salcedo> make invisible car
2019-08-09T02:52:01 < jadew> Cracki, where?
2019-08-09T02:52:11 < Cracki> mister /b/'s link
2019-08-09T02:52:26 < jadew> oh...
2019-08-09T02:52:43 < Cracki> I don't always click his links
2019-08-09T02:53:00 < jadew> I usually open them in incognito
2019-08-09T02:53:50 < Cracki> I love it when he posts web proxy links that lead everyone but him to the proxy's portal page because they aren't permalinks, but session links
2019-08-09T02:54:21 < mawk> after being told 5 times by everone in the offtopic channel
2019-08-09T02:54:30 < Cracki> >File:Agjhamster.jpg
2019-08-09T02:55:01 < Cracki> maybe that individual gets knifed, I hear that's likely in Great Britain
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2019-08-09T02:57:00 < jadew> Cracki, it's a statistical fact
2019-08-09T02:57:24 < jadew> ok that didn't came out right
2019-08-09T02:57:26 < Cracki> bbbut that's forbidden knowledge
2019-08-09T03:00:27 < jadew> found a chinese company whose name means fucking in romanian
2019-08-09T03:00:36 < jadew> I'll have to find something to import from them
2019-08-09T03:02:28 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bawmxQE_Fj0
2019-08-09T03:04:58 < jadew> nice
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2019-08-09T03:11:17 < jadew> I wish I lived in china
2019-08-09T03:12:50 < jadew> there's a lot of good stuff there, but it's hard to find between the garbage
2019-08-09T03:13:12 < jadew> if I was there, I could just go to those component malls I hear about
2019-08-09T03:18:39 < Cracki> westerners move to shenzhen because it's so much quicker to design and build electronics
2019-08-09T03:18:55 < jadew> yeah
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2019-08-09T03:37:31 < salcedo> i'd be terrified to go to china
2019-08-09T03:37:49 < machinehum> salcedo: Thanks
2019-08-09T03:41:57 < mawk> me tee salcedo 
2019-08-09T03:42:05 < mawk> but I'm almost as worried going to japan or USA
2019-08-09T03:42:59 < salcedo> USA is great
2019-08-09T03:43:04 < salcedo> japan is great
2019-08-09T03:43:09 < salcedo> china... hellll no.
2019-08-09T03:43:18 < salcedo> they'd execute me if i went there
2019-08-09T03:44:36 < Laurenceb> heh
2019-08-09T03:44:49 < Laurenceb> I've only been to USA out of that selection
2019-08-09T03:45:23 < Laurenceb> when I arrived the bus driver warned me not to irl lol at the police officer who was hiding in a bush or he would shoot us
2019-08-09T03:45:32 < Laurenceb> appropriate welcome to usa
2019-08-09T03:47:11 < Cracki> lol
2019-08-09T03:48:28 < Laurenceb> the murican immigration woman was really nice
2019-08-09T03:48:41 < Laurenceb> but the britbong guy was really nasty and scottish
2019-08-09T03:48:47 < Cracki> germans have a name for people doing lewd or thief-like things by themselves in bushes, Strauchdieb. literally thief of shrubbery
2019-08-09T03:49:07 < Laurenceb> he was asking me weird lie detector style questions for about 5 minutes
2019-08-09T03:49:17 < Cracki> r u a replicant
2019-08-09T03:49:23 < Laurenceb> what day is it?
2019-08-09T03:49:34 < Laurenceb> how old are you?
2019-08-09T03:50:02 < salcedo> that's standard for entrance to USA
2019-08-09T03:50:07 < Cracki> I wonder how often he gets serious answers that are wrong
2019-08-09T03:50:08 < salcedo> you need to prove you are NPC
2019-08-09T03:50:21 < Cracki> weekdays are a social construct
2019-08-09T03:50:33 < salcedo> just respond to every question with, "iphone" or "alexa" and you will get passed right through.
2019-08-09T03:51:00 < salcedo> don't want to get searched by TSA? duct tape a selfie stick to your face.
2019-08-09T03:51:01 < Cracki> _you_ should never leave the country. they won't let you back in with that attitude
2019-08-09T03:51:23 < salcedo> nah
2019-08-09T03:51:25 < salcedo> you see my last name
2019-08-09T03:51:35 < Cracki> right, mexican
2019-08-09T03:51:39 < salcedo> i can leave and come back to the USA all i want.
2019-08-09T03:52:07 < Laurenceb> I think "how do you intend to leave the airport?" was the actual question
2019-08-09T03:52:08 < Cracki> much privilege
2019-08-09T03:52:20 < Cracki> naked and covered in jello
2019-08-09T03:52:25 < Laurenceb> bane voice: "with no survivors"
2019-08-09T03:52:35 < salcedo> yes much much privilege
2019-08-09T03:52:59 < salcedo> SJWs can't touch me because i'm mexican.
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2019-08-09T03:53:06  * Laurenceb zzz
2019-08-09T03:53:08 < salcedo> ICE can't touch me because i'm "white"
2019-08-09T03:53:34 < Cracki> inb4 fellow white people spiel
2019-08-09T03:54:07 < Cracki> I think you aren't one of those :P
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2019-08-09T03:55:53 < salcedo> i'm a dreeeeeaaamer. lol not.
2019-08-09T03:57:03 < Cracki> daca grand challenge
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2019-08-09T03:57:42 < salcedo> ended up going into a serious vue.js rabbit hole
2019-08-09T03:57:49 < salcedo> and using vuex
2019-08-09T03:58:03 < salcedo> all for a chart and a start and stop button esentially. for the reflow oven
2019-08-09T03:58:10 < salcedo> and websockets on esp8266
2019-08-09T03:58:14 < salcedo> it's getting ridiculous
2019-08-09T03:58:25 < salcedo> this thing is so overengineered at this point i have to keep going
2019-08-09T03:58:35 < Cracki> sunk cost fallacy
2019-08-09T03:58:41 < Cracki> just dump it in the trash
2019-08-09T03:58:47 < jadew> I just chased a car that was spraying for bugs
2019-08-09T03:59:08 < mawk> why why why
2019-08-09T03:59:11 < mawk> start simple salcedo 
2019-08-09T03:59:21 < mawk> plain web 0.1 html with bare minimum of js
2019-08-09T03:59:22 < Cracki> somewhere a dog cries because you put him out of his job chasing that car
2019-08-09T03:59:22 < jadew> it had a weird light that was spinning and was making a lot of noise. I looked from the balcony and couldn't tell what it was
2019-08-09T03:59:30 < salcedo> mawk: that's what i did
2019-08-09T03:59:34 < mawk> keep the load simple for esp8266 if websockets are too demanding
2019-08-09T03:59:45 < mawk> with a middleware that converts websocket to udp or something
2019-08-09T03:59:55 < mawk> with simple commands
2019-08-09T04:00:06 < salcedo> naw the websockets are pretty dope on esp8266
2019-08-09T04:00:11 < mawk> ah nice
2019-08-09T04:00:26 < salcedo> i'm really surprised at how easy/fast it is on the esp8266 side
2019-08-09T04:00:28 < jadew> anyway, it was spraying for bugs, mystery solved
2019-08-09T04:00:35 < mawk> you're using the arduino libs for it ?
2019-08-09T04:00:38 < salcedo> like i coded the backend in 20 minutes. then been spending the last week or so in vue.js rabbithole
2019-08-09T04:00:47 < Cracki> while making noise, at night
2019-08-09T04:00:47 < salcedo> yeah there's AsyncWebServer and AsyncWebSocket libraries
2019-08-09T04:00:56 < jadew> Cracki, yeah
2019-08-09T04:01:22 < Cracki> a german would write down the license plate and get police to write up a noise complaint
2019-08-09T04:01:28 < salcedo> i hope at the end of this i'll be able to put the whole thing on github and splatter my "blog" with a write-up on it.
2019-08-09T04:01:51 < jadew> Cracki, my problem was that the light hit me and I instantly got a headache
2019-08-09T04:02:02 < jadew> so my wheels started spinning and that's when I decided to go see wth it was
2019-08-09T04:02:13 < salcedo> this way i can be like "hey look i did this." to potential employers and they'll be like "HAHAAHA but you're not a fan of avocado toast and you're almost 40. gtfo"
2019-08-09T04:02:39 < jadew> I think it was a regular projector, but because it was night, some muscles contracted and that's what triggered the pain
2019-08-09T04:03:07 < rajkosto> again the simulation sucks
2019-08-09T04:04:12 < salcedo> once the oven is complete, i'll be moving at light speed toward lora things again.
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2019-08-09T04:25:09 < jadew> salcedo, so how is the oven going?
2019-08-09T04:25:31 < salcedo> jadew: in the vuejs rabbit hole and waiting on my pcbs. they shipped but i don't know how much longer until they get here.
2019-08-09T04:25:31 < jadew> I was planning to do mine today, but other stuff got in the way
2019-08-09T04:25:34 < salcedo> the parts are here
2019-08-09T04:25:54 < jadew> ah, thought you're already writing the software
2019-08-09T04:26:07 < salcedo> everything's happening at once
2019-08-09T04:26:36 < salcedo> the oven is mostly built. everything except the current version of the controller. hopefully the final.
2019-08-09T04:26:56 < mawk> how do you control temperature ?
2019-08-09T04:27:01 < mawk> to prevent overshoot by inertia
2019-08-09T04:27:22 < salcedo> "overshoot by inertia" ?
2019-08-09T04:27:29 < salcedo> my oven doesn't spin yet.
2019-08-09T04:27:47 < salcedo> is that something i should be making it do?
2019-08-09T04:27:58 < jadew> salcedo, after you stop the power to the elements it will keep heating up
2019-08-09T04:28:15 < jadew> so if you want to hit a particular point, you have to slow down to get there
2019-08-09T04:28:34 < mawk> yes
2019-08-09T04:28:57 < salcedo> ah yeah. that's what you mean lol.
2019-08-09T04:29:13 < mawk> if you use a simple on-off control when you reach the right temperature the resistance will still be hot
2019-08-09T04:29:21 < mawk> you'd have to make some field measurements
2019-08-09T04:29:25 < salcedo> while i haven't tested this yet - my current idea is to pulse the elements once per second.
2019-08-09T04:29:35 < salcedo> basically really slow PWM. by the second.
2019-08-09T04:29:46 < jadew> I was doing PWM with mine too
2019-08-09T04:29:47 < mawk> to know how is the thermal inertia to know where to stop in order to reach the temperature
2019-08-09T04:29:58 < mawk> yeah slow pwm is how it's always done I guess
2019-08-09T04:30:00 < jadew> I think it's sufficient for most stuff, but you won't be following any profile with that
2019-08-09T04:30:05 < mawk> in food cooker it's like once every 5 seconds
2019-08-09T04:30:13 < mawk> why not jadew ?
2019-08-09T04:30:20 < jadew> mawk, with that alone I mean
2019-08-09T04:30:27 < mawk> ah
2019-08-09T04:30:29 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-09T04:30:45 < salcedo> that's why i'm in vue.js rabbit hole with my controller because i want to have real-time chart of the profile vs. actual temp
2019-08-09T04:31:44 < salcedo> then what i'm going to do is run the oven at 100% duty cycle a few times and see what it looks like
2019-08-09T04:32:23 < jadew> salcedo, the rise in temperature will be different from a cold start than from a hot-start
2019-08-09T04:32:31 < jadew> also, it will be different at different temperatures :)
2019-08-09T04:32:34 < salcedo> yes i know
2019-08-09T04:33:05 < mawk> I think you can get a curve fitting
2019-08-09T04:33:20 < mawk> or anything else useful; just from the raw data
2019-08-09T04:33:35 < salcedo> i don't know how to express the math for this but my idea is to code a "curve" based on how far the actual temp is from the desired temp in order to control the width of the PWM.
2019-08-09T04:33:40 < salcedo> does that make sense? lol
2019-08-09T04:33:47 < mawk> like, try to find the time it takes to go from T1 to T2 according to what T1 is currently
2019-08-09T04:33:51 < jadew> I was going to model mine but jeez... instant laziness settles in when I think about it
2019-08-09T04:33:53 < mawk> take a few sample points and you can deduce the rest
2019-08-09T04:34:37 < mawk> to heat up it's easy, you just heat up the resistance
2019-08-09T04:34:48 < jadew> salcedo, I had an oven before that I would just set to a particular power and let it run for 5 minutes and it did the job
2019-08-09T04:34:49 < mawk> but to cool down I think you will need a fan or something if the natural cooldown isn't fast enough for the profile
2019-08-09T04:35:04 < jadew> so you can get the job done like that too
2019-08-09T04:35:24 < salcedo> from what i've read, you want about 4degC/sec on cool down
2019-08-09T04:35:34 < Cracki> what's to prevent one from pwming the heating elements at >20 khz?
2019-08-09T04:35:57 < jadew> Cracki, don't know if the SSRs have that bw
2019-08-09T04:36:02 < jadew> and you'd generate a lot of noise
2019-08-09T04:36:02 < Cracki> and who even does on-off with hysteresis instead of at least a proportional controller?
2019-08-09T04:36:06 < salcedo> even if they did, what's the point?
2019-08-09T04:36:08 < jadew> (mains noise)
2019-08-09T04:36:32 < Cracki> hm well, thermodynamics aren't that fast anyway
2019-08-09T04:36:40 < salcedo> it would be 20khz phase chunks of 60hz AC
2019-08-09T04:36:54 < salcedo> so yea it would just be noise splatter
2019-08-09T04:37:03 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, I PWM mine at 0.3 Hz
2019-08-09T04:37:06 < Cracki> so watabout P controller
2019-08-09T04:37:13 < Cracki> PI even
2019-08-09T04:37:31 < jadew> you have to characterize it a bit
2019-08-09T04:37:44 < jadew> and that's time consuming
2019-08-09T04:37:45 < Cracki> sure sure
2019-08-09T04:37:49 < Cracki> oh?
2019-08-09T04:38:00 < jadew> maybe if you made it so it does it itself
2019-08-09T04:38:26 < Cracki> step input, record curve, apply matlab magic
2019-08-09T04:38:38 < jadew> I can't imagine that it would oscillate faster than at several minutes per cycle
2019-08-09T04:38:38 < rajkosto> ahhh fuck i touched 12V to a pcb again
2019-08-09T04:38:45 < rajkosto> and it ded
2019-08-09T04:38:54 < Cracki> weak sauce pcb
2019-08-09T04:39:05 < rajkosto> it was the thing i was using as j-link
2019-08-09T04:39:18 < Cracki> or is that like "we kill the planet, no the planet will be fine but everything on it is fucked"
2019-08-09T04:39:20 < rajkosto> any time i have exposed 12v wire anywhere it ALWAYS TOUCHES something by accident
2019-08-09T04:39:27 < Cracki> drown in epoxy
2019-08-09T04:39:41 < Cracki> always keep the 12 volts at your tongue
2019-08-09T04:39:43 < jadew> rajkosto, hah, join the club
2019-08-09T04:39:50 < rajkosto> 2nd time it happened
2019-08-09T04:39:56 < rajkosto> first time it killed logic analyzer
2019-08-09T04:40:02 < jadew> mine too haha
2019-08-09T04:40:15 < rajkosto> was accident as well it was just on a pin header somewhere
2019-08-09T04:40:17 < jadew> also 12 V
2019-08-09T04:40:18 < salcedo> i'm only accounting for the rise in temp. i don't care about cooling.
2019-08-09T04:40:23 < rajkosto> so now i got no j-likn
2019-08-09T04:41:31 < salcedo> as time progresses, the profile is rising in temp. have to figure out a constant that sets SlowPWM(tm) accordingly based on difference between profile temp and actual temp at an instant in time.
2019-08-09T04:41:54 < mawk> maybe not a constant
2019-08-09T04:41:57 < mawk> could be any curve fitting
2019-08-09T04:42:03 < mawk> just get raw data, you'll see later
2019-08-09T04:42:08 < salcedo> "curve fitting" ?
2019-08-09T04:42:20 < mawk> yes, for instance it could be a quadratic function, or whatever
2019-08-09T04:42:36 < mawk> you look at the curve and make an hypothesis on what the curve is, for instance you can guess the curve is linear
2019-08-09T04:42:42 < mawk> and you fit a linear curve to the data
2019-08-09T04:42:50 < mawk> fitting means you find the linear curve that passes the closest to all the data points
2019-08-09T04:43:24 < jadew> is there no opensource oven controller yet?
2019-08-09T04:43:28 < salcedo> there's tons of em
2019-08-09T04:43:37 < salcedo> but i don't want to look at how they're doing it.
2019-08-09T04:43:41 < salcedo> that's cheating lol
2019-08-09T04:43:44 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-09T04:43:50 < mawk> I wouldn't look either
2019-08-09T04:43:55 < jadew> you got me wrong
2019-08-09T04:44:01 < jadew> I meant you should just get that and be done with it
2019-08-09T04:44:04 < salcedo> plus the way they're doing it is most likely for THEIR oven.
2019-08-09T04:44:08 < salcedo> every oven build is different
2019-08-09T04:44:24 < jadew> well, a good controller would calibrate itself
2019-08-09T04:44:32 < salcedo> the controleo does that
2019-08-09T04:44:32 < jadew> just find one like that
2019-08-09T04:44:40 < jadew> any good controller should do that
2019-08-09T04:46:15 < jadew> jeez, a reflow controller is as expensive as an off the shelf reflow oven
2019-08-09T04:47:58 < salcedo> yep
2019-08-09T04:48:22 < mawk> salcedo's controller will be disruptive
2019-08-09T04:48:32 < salcedo> now you know why i decided to make my own oven + controller
2019-08-09T04:49:01 < salcedo> i have to put r&d money/time into it but the money part is still less
2019-08-09T04:49:19 < salcedo> time? got time.
2019-08-09T04:49:39 < salcedo> endless time
2019-08-09T04:50:39 < jadew> the only reason I didn't get an off the shelf oven is because I didn't know what that insulation was
2019-08-09T04:50:54 < jadew> and one that I can trust is too expensive
2019-08-09T04:51:17 < salcedo> worth it though
2019-08-09T04:51:25 < salcedo> i think i spent $120ish on insulation
2019-08-09T04:51:38 < jadew> why?
2019-08-09T04:51:49 < jadew> I just used tin foil
2019-08-09T04:51:54 < jadew> heats up super fast
2019-08-09T04:52:13 < mawk> don't you want high therma capacity for insulation ?
2019-08-09T04:52:16 < mawk> tin foil doesn't sound good
2019-08-09T04:52:47 < jadew> it works great because it's not glued to the inside of the oven, so there's air between the sheets (I used two sheets)
2019-08-09T04:52:58 < salcedo> you can throw the pcb into an uninsulated oven with no controller and just turn it on and watch it
2019-08-09T04:53:00 < Cracki> oh looky, potentially dangerous things controlled by arduino! https://hackaday.com/2017/11/07/hackaday-prize-entry-reflowduino-the-open-source-reflow-oven-controller/
2019-08-09T04:53:13 < Cracki> thermal capacity is irrelevant
2019-08-09T04:53:19 < Cracki> it needs to not conduct
2019-08-09T04:53:21 < salcedo> but this is not going to produce a good pcb
2019-08-09T04:53:41 < jadew> salcedo, why not?
2019-08-09T04:53:51 < Cracki> temp needs to be even
2019-08-09T04:54:10 < Cracki> also, the more it "leaks" the harder it is to achieve ever higher temperatures
2019-08-09T04:54:18 < Cracki> people with 3d printers and heated beds know this very well
2019-08-09T04:55:58 < jadew> mine is convection so there's some air movement in there
2019-08-09T04:56:46 < Cracki> a controller that has characterization: https://whizoo.com/
2019-08-09T04:58:09 < jadew> $121 not bad
2019-08-09T04:58:46 < aandrew> Cracki: I have one of those. not built yet but have all the parts
2019-08-09T04:59:07 < jadew> aandrew, you got the full kit?
2019-08-09T04:59:15 < Cracki> I like how the controller speaks truth to (lack of) power
2019-08-09T04:59:17 < jadew> my oven is already wired and insulated
2019-08-09T04:59:44 < jadew> Cracki, what do you mean?
2019-08-09T04:59:56 < aandrew> jadew: no, I got the controller. I already had SSD and oven and shit
2019-08-09T05:01:27 < jadew> why didn't you install it so far?
2019-08-09T05:01:45 < aandrew> yeah I insulated the everloving fuck out of hte oven. did not get the boost heater, I figure four elements in the oven already should be enough, and the oven is also convection
2019-08-09T05:01:50 < aandrew> jadew: -ENOTIME
2019-08-09T05:04:07 < mawk> your oven is resistive right salcedo ?
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2019-08-09T05:05:32 < salcedo> mawk: yep
2019-08-09T05:05:41 < aandrew> there are people building their own vapor reflow ovens which is wild
2019-08-09T05:05:58 < salcedo> dabbing off of their reflow ovens? that's wild.
2019-08-09T05:05:59 < mawk> resistive elements take ages to heat up
2019-08-09T05:06:07 < mawk> and cool down
2019-08-09T05:06:21 < salcedo> mawk: hence the reflective insulation
2019-08-09T05:06:36 < mawk> yes
2019-08-09T05:06:41 < mawk> but even with that it can work ?
2019-08-09T05:06:49 < mawk> you found conclusions online ?
2019-08-09T05:07:25 < aandrew> I have so much of that reflect-a-gold shit in my oven it looks like a satellite
2019-08-09T05:07:46 < aandrew> then I used muffler repair shit (awful black stuff) to fill every seam and hole
2019-08-09T05:08:22 < aandrew> and then the outside of the chamber has that heat reflecting/insulating metalized fiberglass that you can wrap engine parts in to protect them from heat
2019-08-09T05:09:33 < jadew> so you went to all that trouble and stopped at wiring things up :)
2019-08-09T05:13:32 < salcedo> aandrew: LOL yeah
2019-08-09T05:13:41 < salcedo> my shit looks like a god damn NASA experiment
2019-08-09T05:13:50 < salcedo> it better work
2019-08-09T05:15:05 < aandrew> jadew: that is *exactly* what happened
2019-08-09T05:16:35 < salcedo> i might need a boost element
2019-08-09T05:16:43 < salcedo> since this oven is $20 walmart special. only has 2 elements
2019-08-09T05:17:04 < salcedo> i'm hoping it being smaller inner dimensions will compensate though
2019-08-09T05:18:02 < aandrew> I got a bigger oven with 4 elements and convection
2019-08-09T05:18:07 < aandrew> that may have been a mistake
2019-08-09T05:18:13 < salcedo> after hooking everything up, first thing to do will be to do a few cold starts and see how fast it can heat
2019-08-09T05:18:16 < aandrew> I think mine was a $35 walmart special
2019-08-09T05:18:21 < aandrew> got it for christmas. :-)
2019-08-09T05:19:20 < salcedo> thuogh i wonder if the reflectagold is just a scam
2019-08-09T05:20:39 < salcedo> maybe jadew is onto something with tinfoil
2019-08-09T05:20:55 < salcedo> it would be interesting to do a comparison and see
2019-08-09T05:21:13 < salcedo> $5 roll of tinfoil vs $100+ of design engineering products.
2019-08-09T05:25:39 < aandrew> heh I thought the exact same thing
2019-08-09T05:25:46 < aandrew> "is this just a waste of fucking money"
2019-08-09T05:26:03 < Cracki> truth to "power" https://whizoo.com/i/c3/learn31.png
2019-08-09T05:26:21 < aandrew> Cracki: hahaha
2019-08-09T05:26:23 < aandrew> "your oven sucks"
2019-08-09T05:29:44 < salcedo> the whizoo ad material kind of reads like FUD
2019-08-09T05:30:02 < salcedo> like "if you don't buy our controller, your projects will DIE"
2019-08-09T05:30:21 < Cracki> it might be. can you afford to ignore it?
2019-08-09T05:31:01 < salcedo> depends
2019-08-09T05:31:14 < salcedo> i have a soldering/welding engineering background in a past life
2019-08-09T05:32:30 < salcedo> could have spared myself all of this and just got a $60 hot air gun
2019-08-09T05:36:57 < Cracki> or 10 bucks hot plate
2019-08-09T05:37:15 < Cracki> and some cardboard to keep the air still
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2019-08-09T05:56:11 < jadew> https://youtu.be/pdGSFc7VjBE?t=841
2019-08-09T05:58:03 < salcedo> http://moa.replic.net/~ix/dingdingding.wav
2019-08-09T05:58:13 < salcedo> boomers talking about smartphones
2019-08-09T05:59:57 < jadew> half a watt with no external antenna, but it sounds better than what they were doing :P
2019-08-09T06:00:18 < salcedo> they're on 75m or something
2019-08-09T06:00:43 < jadew> so they're putting out what... 100W?
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2019-08-09T06:01:15 < salcedo> nah definitely full legal limit
2019-08-09T06:01:44 < salcedo> anything less is pointless at the bottom of the solar cycle - especially at start of grand solar minimum
2019-08-09T06:01:54 < jadew> what's the limit?
2019-08-09T06:01:59 < salcedo> 1500W
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2019-08-09T06:02:06 < jadew> wow
2019-08-09T06:02:08 < jadew> that's a lot
2019-08-09T06:02:44 < salcedo> 1500W PEP
2019-08-09T06:02:56 < salcedo> not ERP
2019-08-09T06:03:45 < salcedo> the ERP could be more or less, depending.
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2019-08-09T06:26:44 < englishman> i have that controlleo
2019-08-09T06:27:31 < jadew> I remember you were happy with it, right?
2019-08-09T06:27:34 < englishman> ya
2019-08-09T06:28:17 < jadew> I'm in no mood of making a controller, so I'd buy it too, but it's gonna take weeks till it's here
2019-08-09T06:28:21 < jadew> and I need it tomorrow
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2019-08-09T06:35:17 < jadew> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32951209556.html
2019-08-09T06:35:26 < jadew> does this type of wrench have a name?
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2019-08-09T06:38:49 < jadew> nvm, I'll just buy a regular wrench and modify it
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2019-08-09T06:44:08 < aandrew> "adjustable wrench" is what it's called here
2019-08-09T06:44:26 < jadew> we call it a french key
2019-08-09T06:47:50 < englishman> funny cuz in french it's a clé anglaise
2019-08-09T06:47:58 < jadew> hah
2019-08-09T07:03:50 < jadew> lol, I'm looking for some connectors and found some magic chinese ones
2019-08-09T07:04:12 < jadew> as the frequency increases, they have gain, instead of loss
2019-08-09T07:10:11 < jadew> night
2019-08-09T07:20:24 < rajkosto> so why cant i input captuer 62.5KHz pwm signal cleanly
2019-08-09T07:28:02 < rajkosto> even with 128MHz core clock
2019-08-09T07:28:05 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/9SevOuL.png
2019-08-09T07:28:22 < bitmask> my rectangle detector works decently already, still a lot of playing around to do
2019-08-09T07:28:24 < rajkosto> i tried to analogize it but the output wasnt linear
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2019-08-09T10:11:27 < rajkosto> Cracki, how do, your collector thingy didnt work out well
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2019-08-09T11:59:02 < Steffanx> Good morning jly  
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2019-08-09T12:59:02 < jly> hi sir
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2019-08-09T15:55:37 < karlp> anyone hve a "known good" ebay windows license seller?
2019-08-09T15:59:41 < salcedo> i wonder if the one baked into my lenovo would work?
2019-08-09T15:59:58 < salcedo> since i don't use windows
2019-08-09T16:00:01 < salcedo> ever
2019-08-09T16:01:11 < salcedo> it probably checks it against mobo sigs or something
2019-08-09T16:05:59 < karlp> englishman: you had some didn't you?
2019-08-09T16:06:40 < englishman> nah for $5 I took the risk
2019-08-09T16:09:33 < karlp> ok, no poitn looking for your seller then?
2019-08-09T16:10:09 < mawk> karlp: I use lvlkey.com for cheap windows licenses
2019-08-09T16:19:11 < mawk> https://www.lvlkey.com/windows-10-professional-oem-key.html
2019-08-09T16:19:17 < mawk> $15 for pro
2019-08-09T16:23:26 < salcedo> Thank you for your order from JLCPCB. It’s our pleasure serving you. We are pleased to inform you that the drugs listed below have been shipped via PostLink US Registered Mail.
2019-08-09T16:23:38 < salcedo> \o/
2019-08-09T16:24:49 < Steffanx> Yw
2019-08-09T16:25:05 < Steffanx> i'd still use ebay mawk. Never had issues with my < $5 license
2019-08-09T16:30:57 < jadew> karlp, just get any license
2019-08-09T16:31:22 < jadew> I never had issues with them either
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2019-08-09T16:44:11 < bitmask> boards will be here monday, yay
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2019-08-09T16:47:38 < salcedo> word!
2019-08-09T16:47:55 < salcedo> jlcpcb says drugs are on the way for me too :)
2019-08-09T16:55:02 < bitmask> :)
2019-08-09T16:55:28 < bitmask> not sure why the boards sat waiting to be picked up by dhl for 2 days
2019-08-09T16:55:41 < bitmask> but oh well
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2019-08-09T16:57:38 < Steffanx> DHL. Such monetized westener.
2019-08-09T17:00:03 < bitmask> says the man with a new cnc machine
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2019-08-09T17:06:20 < bitmask> what software are you using btw, and what stepper drivers?
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2019-08-09T17:53:42 < Steffanx> Just some open sores tools, grbl, bCNC and some cheap skate TB6600 stepper drivers mr bitmask
2019-08-09T17:53:55 < bitmask> nice
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2019-08-09T19:06:18 < Thorn> https://www.seeedstudio.com/MDP-XP-Smart-Digital-Power-Supply-Kit-p-4117.html
2019-08-09T19:10:24 < englishman> karlp: eBay doesn't even keep transactions older than like 2 years now, don't know if I could find it
2019-08-09T19:14:49 < karlp> no worries, bought one for like 2 pounds
2019-08-09T19:14:52 < karlp> seems to be working
2019-08-09T19:15:55 < englishman> nice lol
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2019-08-09T19:57:46 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-09_18-57-40_vB78Wq8Cy.png how do i get rid of this ugly hump
2019-08-09T20:23:00 < kuldeep_> I would like to compile my code with a position independent code with:  ram (read/write) access are performed at a specific constant location (0x20000000). function call and readonly data are done relative to PC.   my goal is to have a relocatable firmware that can be written to any location on the microcontroller flash and when the code is run, it do not have any problem running.   [This code do not have to worry about the vector table, it 
2019-08-09T20:23:00 < kuldeep_> can safely assume that it has been setup'd properly]
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2019-08-09T20:23:48 < kuldeep_> im playing with gcc pic arguments like -fPIE -msingle-pic-base -mpic-data-is-text-relative -mpic-register=r9  but i cannot get the right mix
2019-08-09T20:24:49 < kuldeep_> my goal: three partition of flash: bootloader(at start of flash), app1 and app2.  based on Option byte register, bootloader run app1 or app2
2019-08-09T21:21:05 < salcedo> mawk: the pocket oscilliscope has arrived from banggood!
2019-08-09T21:21:29 < salcedo> no idea if it works. the box was really smashed up but luckily the scope was inside a protective case
2019-08-09T21:22:22 < rajkosto> is it one of those trash stm32f1 based ones
2019-08-09T21:22:43 < salcedo> no freaking clue i don't recall
2019-08-09T21:22:45 < salcedo> let me find the email
2019-08-09T21:23:12 < salcedo>   DANIU ADS5012H Digital 2.4-inch TFT Screen Anti-burn Oscilloscope 500MS/s Sampling Rate 100MHz Analog Bandwidth Support Waveform Storage and Built-in Large 3000mah Capacity Lithium Battery 
2019-08-09T21:23:13 < rajkosto> cuz those are pretty useless other than like... measuring audio signals
2019-08-09T21:23:37 < salcedo> that's what i got it for
2019-08-09T21:23:53 < salcedo> audio sigs and really slow bus signals
2019-08-09T21:23:55 < rajkosto> oh those seem a bit better
2019-08-09T21:24:01 < rajkosto> but those specs are 100% a lie
2019-08-09T21:24:18 < rajkosto> btw the standard 2.4" "TFT" they use in these
2019-08-09T21:24:18 < salcedo> this one got a lot of praise from the DIY youtube folks
2019-08-09T21:24:20 < rajkosto> is a horrible TN screen
2019-08-09T21:24:34 < rajkosto> where your left eye will receive different colors from your right one
2019-08-09T21:24:37 < salcedo> they said it's much better than the typical cheapo ones
2019-08-09T21:24:52 < rajkosto> making looking at the grid and such really annoying
2019-08-09T21:25:02 < salcedo> will find out in a few minutes
2019-08-09T21:25:04 < rajkosto> "In order to save costs, the material of screen has changed to TFT from IPS. And the battery capacity has also reduced to 3000mAh."
2019-08-09T21:25:09 < rajkosto> lol "TFT" vs "IPS"
2019-08-09T21:25:12 < rajkosto> its TN you fools
2019-08-09T21:25:34 < rajkosto> also i dropped a drop of water on mine and it somehow went inside the sandwiched LCD layers
2019-08-09T21:25:42 < rajkosto> shorting out like 7 lines to pure white
2019-08-09T21:26:19 < salcedo> if it works i'll be happy
2019-08-09T21:26:45 < rajkosto> it being able to show a 5MHz square wave like in the pics they show isnt bad at all
2019-08-09T21:27:17 < rajkosto> if its true
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2019-08-09T21:27:56 < salcedo> for that i'll need to code a signal gen with this nucleo
2019-08-09T21:28:04 < rajkosto> you dont
2019-08-09T21:28:26 < rajkosto> just use a timer
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2019-08-09T21:47:13 < rajkosto> can you use input capture to simply count how many clocks in a given period a signal was 1 vs 0
2019-08-09T21:50:40 < salcedo> i did blink.c at 1ms
2019-08-09T21:51:06 < salcedo> it's spot on
2019-08-09T21:51:16 < rajkosto> how do at 1us
2019-08-09T21:51:18 < salcedo> let's see what happens if i go faster
2019-08-09T21:51:31 < rajkosto> dont do it on the cpu do it with a timer output
2019-08-09T21:51:51 < salcedo> yeah
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2019-08-09T21:56:20 < kakimir> honey I'm home
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2019-08-09T22:04:15 < salcedo> rajkosto: the d1 mini appears to max out at 5khz using tone()
2019-08-09T22:05:16 < rajkosto> the what with the what what
2019-08-09T22:10:44 < salcedo> ok
2019-08-09T22:10:51 < salcedo> amazing
2019-08-09T22:10:54 < salcedo> i should take a picture of this
2019-08-09T22:15:35 < salcedo> rajkosto: what you are about to see _might_ impress you about this scope.
2019-08-09T22:15:59 < salcedo> (it's still uploading on my blazing fast 128kbit/sec)
2019-08-09T22:21:06 < salcedo> postimg failed. uploading over scp
2019-08-09T22:21:09 < salcedo> 10 more minutes rofl
2019-08-09T22:21:28  * salcedo considers moving to india for better internet
2019-08-09T22:21:36 < salcedo> better food too
2019-08-09T22:22:42 < rajkosto> Cracki, so youve encountered the fake stlinks coming with cs32 chips ?
2019-08-09T22:23:08 < salcedo> https://salcedo.tech/scope.jpg
2019-08-09T22:24:43 < rajkosto> their pics show 100MHz sinewave just fine
2019-08-09T22:30:01 < salcedo> yea.
2019-08-09T22:30:10  * salcedo wonders what he has that can kick out 100mhz
2019-08-09T22:34:55 < rajkosto> any oscillator
2019-08-09T22:40:22 < zyp> karlp, somebody on a norwegian forum were asking about power meters to monitor individual branch circuits, so now I'm advertising for your stuff
2019-08-09T22:49:18 < rajkosto> so can i use input capture to count number of clocks that signal was high
2019-08-09T22:49:32 < rajkosto> instead of the timer values when it went high or low
2019-08-09T23:11:36 < karlp> zyp: cool, anytime :)
2019-08-09T23:21:04 < zyp> any progress on the new gateway btw?
2019-08-09T23:24:42 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2019-08-09_22-24-36_gsSFGc7As.png maybe this design will be good ?
2019-08-09T23:32:41 < jadew> salcedo, you just bought that scope?
2019-08-09T23:33:56 < qyx> meh, I recommended karlp's stuff recently too, but nothing happened yet
2019-08-09T23:34:26 < jadew> which stuff?
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2019-08-09T23:47:50 < karlp> www.etactica.com
2019-08-09T23:48:47 < bubbablob> got approved by ikea. must be good :p
2019-08-09T23:49:27 < jadew> neat
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2019-08-09T23:50:45 < jadew> neat
2019-08-09T23:51:42 < jadew> https://etactica.com/products/split-core-ct/
2019-08-09T23:51:47 < jadew> No Results Found
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2019-08-09T23:56:28 < jadew> I skipped working on the oven controller today too
2019-08-09T23:57:21 < karlp> jadew: bah, I'll try and fix that, not sure I have the website login.
2019-08-09T23:57:36 < karlp> the cts are nothing special, we jsut got 100mA outputs on them
--- Day changed Sat Aug 10 2019
2019-08-10T00:00:28 < karlp> fixed the link, thanks
2019-08-10T00:00:33 < jadew> np
2019-08-10T00:00:44 < jadew> still isn't working
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2019-08-10T00:01:06 < karlp> hhrm, works here in an incognito mode window.  /me looks in another place 
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2019-08-10T00:01:21 < karlp> ahh, fixed the drop down, but not the other place
2019-08-10T00:01:22 < jadew> was the URL broken?
2019-08-10T00:01:24 < karlp> stupid word press.
2019-08-10T00:01:28 < jadew> ah, got it
2019-08-10T00:01:43 < karlp> nah, some moronic website company worked on it
2019-08-10T00:01:45 < jadew> so the URL was broken
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2019-08-10T00:06:18 < karlp> bah, fixed it in the admin thing in two places, guess it's some stupid php caching blah
2019-08-10T00:08:49 < Steffanx> Hows that thermo couple box + desktop tool going jadew ? ;)
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2019-08-10T00:09:08 < karlp> ah, figured it out, had saved it to thhe stupid editor, but not updated the page.
2019-08-10T00:09:19 < salcedo> jadew: yea
2019-08-10T00:09:22  * karlp was looking for a thermocouple box today,
2019-08-10T00:09:26 < salcedo> jadew: about a month ago
2019-08-10T00:11:26 < karlp> do any stm32s have differential adcs other than f303?
2019-08-10T00:12:38 < qyx> f373
2019-08-10T00:12:46 < Steffanx> As in like a pico logger (TC-08) karlp ?
2019-08-10T00:12:50 < qyx> sdadc has diff inputs
2019-08-10T00:13:56 < karlp> G4 seems to as well.
2019-08-10T00:14:16 < karlp> Steffanx: more like this: https://www.seneca.it/en/linee-di-prodotto/acquisizione-dati-e-automazione/sistemi-io-modbus-rtu/moduli-io-analogici/z-8tc-1/
2019-08-10T00:14:38 < Steffanx> Oh that's more pro stuff
2019-08-10T00:15:09 < karlp> cheaper than tc08 by quite a noticeable amount...
2019-08-10T00:15:15 < karlp> both 8 channels though
2019-08-10T00:16:14 < karlp> more industrial than pro I'd say :)
2019-08-10T00:17:41 < Steffanx> That's why one ebays a pico logger. Some brit sells them for cheapish once in a while
2019-08-10T00:18:23 < Steffanx> But beating 178 euro is hard. Except it does not give you a fancy GUI
2019-08-10T00:19:19 < karlp> don't need the ui.
2019-08-10T00:19:41 < karlp> tehre's an adam module too, about the same price.
2019-08-10T00:20:00 < karlp> L4 has diff adc too.
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2019-08-10T00:23:21 < qyx> but but you need at least 24bits for your temperature
2019-08-10T00:23:26 < jadew> Steffanx, never got to it :)
2019-08-10T00:23:45 < qyx> multi input pga+adc combo
2019-08-10T00:23:54 < qyx> linear/analol has some neat
2019-08-10T00:24:54 < jadew> qyx, why 24 bits?
2019-08-10T00:25:12 < qyx> because you can
2019-08-10T00:25:38 < qyx> it is like with megapixels
2019-08-10T00:26:06 < qyx> you won't buy a 3.2Mpx pro camera today
2019-08-10T00:26:44 < jadew> I wouldn't buy a 100 Mpx one either, if the sensor was tiny
2019-08-10T00:31:57 < karlp> qyx: not actually looking at measuring thermocouples actually, just looking for a diff adc in mV range.
2019-08-10T00:32:26 < karlp> and yeah, not really sure I can see how f3/g4/l4 diff modes work for me.
2019-08-10T00:32:57 < jadew> final form of my fume extractor: http://5.12.177.18/stuff/IMG_20190810_002748_.jpg
2019-08-10T00:33:34 < Steffanx> heh
2019-08-10T00:33:38 < jadew> it's actually a bit longer than that, because it has another fan in the middle
2019-08-10T00:34:10 < jadew> initially I just wanted to use it with that fan, but figured it could use one at the input too
2019-08-10T00:34:55 < jadew> works really well
2019-08-10T00:35:05 < Steffanx> But its a huge thing on your desk
2019-08-10T00:35:07 < jadew> and no need for filters and other crap like that that may or may not work
2019-08-10T00:35:18 < jadew> Steffanx, I hide it behind the monitor when I don't use it
2019-08-10T00:35:51 < jadew> and made supports underneeth the desk for the rest of the tube, so it's not visible
2019-08-10T00:36:10 < jadew> the other fan is also attached to the bottom of the desk - everything is out of sight
2019-08-10T00:36:16 < jadew> and this part comes out only when I need it
2019-08-10T00:36:35 < Ultrasauce> where does it go?
2019-08-10T00:36:40 < jadew> outside
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2019-08-10T00:42:16 < Ultrasauce> ive been thinking about building something like that but it's gonna suck in the winter
2019-08-10T00:42:17 < Ultrasauce> well,
2019-08-10T00:42:21 < Ultrasauce> i guess the point is to suck all the time
2019-08-10T00:42:42 < Ultrasauce> but. pulling in air from the outside at -20C or whatever, not the best
2019-08-10T00:43:40 < jadew> it does, yeah
2019-08-10T00:44:01 < jadew> it's using the same outlet as my printer (I have a hole with a tube adapter in the mosquito net)
2019-08-10T00:44:14 < jadew> and in the winter is really difficult
2019-08-10T00:44:54 < jadew> I wanted to make a hole in the wall, but my wife wasn't too happy about that
2019-08-10T00:45:28 < jadew> next best thing is probably a hole in the window itself
2019-08-10T00:45:50 < jadew> I also considered a slit in the frame of the door
2019-08-10T00:49:00 < salcedo> nonsense!
2019-08-10T00:49:41 < salcedo> just cut a rectangular piece of plywood, attach same size foam insulation to it with some glue
2019-08-10T00:49:48 < salcedo> cut big circle in it
2019-08-10T00:50:04 < salcedo> put in window
2019-08-10T00:50:13 < jadew> I don't have a window here, just a door
2019-08-10T00:53:08 < jadew> now I can finally work on the oven controller
2019-08-10T01:05:55 < machinehum> Hello weiners
2019-08-10T01:06:26 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3injDnvAyRg
2019-08-10T01:07:29 < jadew> wtf?
2019-08-10T01:07:50 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2019-08-10T01:07:52 < jadew> my gag reflex kicked in several times
2019-08-10T01:20:48 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-10T01:34:14 < jadew> comment on a UFC video: "This guy looks like he came right after math class"
2019-08-10T01:34:27 < jadew> (skinny fighter)
2019-08-10T01:37:28 < kakimir> jadew: I'm still thinking what happened to sausages that didn't come out
2019-08-10T01:37:54 < jadew> kakimir, yeah... the whole thing was freaking weird
2019-08-10T01:38:03 < jadew> he's inhaling them, isn't it?
2019-08-10T01:38:21 < kakimir> definitelly
2019-08-10T01:38:31 < jadew> it's mental
2019-08-10T01:40:07 < kakimir> it's pretty old video
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2019-08-10T01:44:16 < Steffanx> kakimir is gonna try?
2019-08-10T01:44:39 < kakimir> no
2019-08-10T01:44:50 < kakimir> but I'm hungry now
2019-08-10T01:46:29 < salcedo> i just made the bomb diggity
2019-08-10T01:46:49 < salcedo> cauliflower + asparagus + mushroom in food processor to make rice
2019-08-10T01:47:00 < salcedo> add chicken, bacon, salt, pepper, curry powder
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2019-08-10T01:54:10 < stiltzkin> hiya, anybody @ DEFCON who might be able to lend a hand with badge hacking
2019-08-10T01:54:50 < salcedo> send pics too :)
2019-08-10T01:56:27 < stiltzkin> https://i.imgur.com/rZcqT7Z.jpg
2019-08-10T01:57:04 < stiltzkin> LPC-LINK2 w/ TagConnect
2019-08-10T01:57:19 < rajkosto> but why
2019-08-10T01:57:33 < stiltzkin> why what
2019-08-10T01:59:44 < salcedo> i recognize the part on the left as a piezo buzzer?
2019-08-10T02:02:42 < salcedo> maybe it has a mic too?
2019-08-10T02:03:14 < salcedo> how lulz would it be if they had mt63
2019-08-10T02:04:24 < stiltzkin> yeah it is a beeper/buzzer
2019-08-10T02:04:29 < stiltzkin> can play little melodies
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2019-08-10T02:21:46 < Cracki> microphones? I doubt they'd hand thousands of microphones to attendees
2019-08-10T02:21:58 < Cracki> the ones in the devices owned by google and apple are enough
2019-08-10T02:22:23 < Cracki> it's not like it would be useful for security researchers to get their hands on microphones of their own
2019-08-10T02:23:22 < stiltzkin> yeah there's no mic
2019-08-10T02:24:56 < Cracki> anything you can repurpose as one?
2019-08-10T02:25:01 < Cracki> anything piezo?
2019-08-10T02:25:04 < stiltzkin> lol
2019-08-10T02:25:09 < stiltzkin> doubtful
2019-08-10T02:25:23 -!- kow_ [~iccy@135.0.26.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2019-08-10T02:25:41 < Cracki> i've seen fpgas sensitive to the board they're on getting bent
2019-08-10T02:25:44 < stiltzkin> anyone here have experience with J-Link/J-Mem or MCUXpresso/LPCXpresso
2019-08-10T02:25:48 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFqWjZudOho
2019-08-10T02:25:57 < stiltzkin> pretty lost with the software side of connecting to this
2019-08-10T02:26:55 < Cracki> what is it
2019-08-10T02:27:02 < Cracki> lpc something?
2019-08-10T02:27:06 < stiltzkin> lpc-link2
2019-08-10T02:27:12 < Cracki> no, the target
2019-08-10T02:27:40 < stiltzkin> MKL27Z64VDA4R
2019-08-10T02:27:43 < stiltzkin> cortex m0
2019-08-10T02:27:51 < Cracki> ah, that stuff
2019-08-10T02:28:11 < Cracki> I have heard much hate about kinetis and lpc and nxp and all that
2019-08-10T02:28:30 < stiltzkin> I'm sure it works I'm just a n00b
2019-08-10T02:28:54 < Cracki> expect pain
2019-08-10T02:30:07 < Cracki> I don't see any particular radio/wifi features... they could have gone for a much more popular stm32 :P
2019-08-10T02:30:48 < stiltzkin> well, I'm gonna pack up, maybe I'll have more luck tomorrow
2019-08-10T02:30:51 < Cracki> aha! lpclink2 supports jlink on-board and cmsis-dap
2019-08-10T02:30:52 < Cracki> both are good
2019-08-10T02:31:00 < stiltzkin> yeah jlink on board
2019-08-10T02:31:05 < stiltzkin> that's what I'm trying to use
2019-08-10T02:31:06 < Cracki> your first task would be to get a "jlink OB" firmware on that debugger
2019-08-10T02:31:11 < stiltzkin> yeah, have done that
2019-08-10T02:31:14 < stiltzkin> using lpcscrypt
2019-08-10T02:31:23 < stiltzkin> latest one 2019-04 I think
2019-08-10T02:31:29 < stiltzkin> so that part is done
2019-08-10T02:31:38 < Cracki> heard of openocd?
2019-08-10T02:31:41 < stiltzkin> nope
2019-08-10T02:31:45 < Cracki> dive down that rabbit hole
2019-08-10T02:32:14 < stiltzkin> does that work with this hw
2019-08-10T02:32:21 < Cracki> I would hope so!
2019-08-10T02:32:32  * salcedo looks in /usr/share/openocd
2019-08-10T02:32:48 < Cracki> https://mcuoneclipse.com/2015/03/22/openocdcmsis-dap-debugging-with-eclipse-and-without-an-ide/
2019-08-10T02:33:11 < Cracki> as long as openocd is involved, doesn't really matter if the debugger is a jlink ob or cmsis dap
2019-08-10T02:34:48 < Cracki> you mentioned mcuxpresso... got that IDE installed? might be quicker to get running, or might not
2019-08-10T02:35:20 < Cracki> at least it's less work to arrive at a verdict before you set up individual pieces
2019-08-10T02:35:29 < stiltzkin> yeah I do
2019-08-10T02:35:35 < stiltzkin> but I can't get it to connect
2019-08-10T02:35:47 < Cracki> does it say anything
2019-08-10T02:35:57 < stiltzkin> yeah it says no debugger connected over usb
2019-08-10T02:36:07 < Cracki> then that must be the case
2019-08-10T02:36:12 < stiltzkin> lol
2019-08-10T02:36:19 < stiltzkin> but I can flash it with lpcscrypt
2019-08-10T02:36:22 < Cracki> or it's already not their original firmware but jlink/cmsisdap
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2019-08-10T02:37:54 < stiltzkin> think I'm gonna have to find someone to coach me in person here
2019-08-10T02:37:57 < stiltzkin> but I appreciate the help
2019-08-10T02:38:07 < Cracki> good idea. someone designed the thing
2019-08-10T02:38:45 < stiltzkin> https://media.defcon.org/DEF%20CON%2027/DEF%20CON%2027%20badge/DEFCON-27-Joe-Grand-Badge.pdf
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2019-08-10T02:40:40 < salcedo> DEFCON-27-Joe-Grand-Badge.pdf             0%[                                                                               ] 118.93K  7.97KB/s    eta 67m 21s
2019-08-10T02:40:42 < salcedo> fuck that
2019-08-10T02:41:00 < salcedo> i did find some further info on openocd for these things but the guy left
2019-08-10T02:41:27 < salcedo> openocd has the target configs under freescale (since that's what these are)
2019-08-10T02:43:37 < Cracki> is it just my impression or are kinetis/freescale/nxp really not interested in supporting their shit?
2019-08-10T02:44:32 < Cracki> feels like dicking around with PICs when there are AVRs with some decent tool support (not to mention stm8)
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2019-08-10T03:25:37 < rajkosto> wtf
2019-08-10T03:25:45 < rajkosto> just sampling the gpio lines on the cpu works FAR better than doing it in timers
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2019-08-10T03:55:12 < rajkosto> so the code that does it the dumbest way possible (just for(;;) loop sampling the gpio and accumulating into integers) works perfectly while timer stuff is glitchy as hell
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2019-08-10T04:07:50 < Cracki> define glitchy
2019-08-10T04:08:05 < Cracki> maybe you're not doing it right
2019-08-10T04:08:12 < rajkosto> sometimes says that the CCR1/CCR2 are 0 or 1 or 2
2019-08-10T04:08:24 < rajkosto> no matter what filters/divisor/autoreload i use
2019-08-10T04:08:36 < rajkosto> (period should pretty much always be around 2090)
2019-08-10T04:09:48 < rajkosto> can i set up input capture so that CCR is only incremented when external line is high on timer tick, otherwise no ?
2019-08-10T04:10:06 < rajkosto> aka dont give me timer values when rising/falling edges happen, just increment every time the signal is high
2019-08-10T04:12:32 < rajkosto> that should be more stable cuz its basically what im doing in software
2019-08-10T04:15:17 < Cracki> is it possible that it's bouncing
2019-08-10T04:16:22 < rajkosto> its on certain transitions of the pwm signal
2019-08-10T04:16:38 < Cracki> I think you might be able to use the pin state to "gate" the counter's incrementing 
2019-08-10T04:16:41 < rajkosto> either way i dont care about the frequency anymore
2019-08-10T04:16:59 < rajkosto> yes but i want to gate CCR not the actual counter
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2019-08-10T04:19:44 < Cracki> might wanna look into capturing "PDM". your signal has similarities to pdm
2019-08-10T04:21:40 < Cracki> hm nevermind, it doesn't
2019-08-10T04:21:48 < rajkosto> yes thats what i want
2019-08-10T04:21:54 < rajkosto> sample @ constant rate
2019-08-10T04:21:58 < Cracki> but the same peripherals *might* be flexible enough to let you
2019-08-10T04:22:07 < rajkosto> count number of times it was high
2019-08-10T04:23:46 < rajkosto> absolutely trivial to do in a cpld/fpga
2019-08-10T04:25:55 < Cracki> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/group0/b2/44/42/9d/46/b4/4d/34/DM00354333/files/DM00354333.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00354333.pdf
2019-08-10T04:26:04 < Cracki> might not apply to your type of stm32
2019-08-10T04:26:09 < Cracki> they have a list
2019-08-10T04:27:27 < rajkosto> https://pastebin.com/dC4JKULn literally just this
2019-08-10T04:32:53 < Cracki> timer input capture, dma to save values (62.5 khz is quite a rate for interrupts), then calculate a difference between any two successive samples elsewhere?
2019-08-10T04:33:24 < rajkosto> the problem is that it goes all high or all low sometimes
2019-08-10T04:33:32 < rajkosto> and then cant recover from that easily
2019-08-10T04:33:33 < Cracki> ah right
2019-08-10T04:34:31 < rajkosto> even if i can gate timers how do i get the value out of them and reset them all in sync
2019-08-10T04:35:19 < Cracki> maybe get a little fpga or whatever :P
2019-08-10T04:35:33 < rajkosto> non, stm32 uber alles
2019-08-10T04:39:50 < Cracki> stm32 with some programmable logic might be fun
2019-08-10T04:43:04 < Cracki> if you could gate/enable the counting of timer channels from your gpios (at worst from an exti), even if they happen to be 0%/100% dc, that would take care of the counting. upon overflow, take note of the count.
2019-08-10T04:43:32 < rajkosto> if i waste 4 entire timers i can do it
2019-08-10T04:43:46 < rajkosto> set them all to same timebase, set each one to be gated by channel 1
2019-08-10T04:44:00 < rajkosto> in interrupt of last one just read out all the values and reset them
2019-08-10T04:44:03 < Cracki> I'm saying channels
2019-08-10T04:44:14 < rajkosto> you can only gate the entire timer not channels
2019-08-10T04:44:18 < Cracki> ic
2019-08-10T04:44:31 < rajkosto> what would be ideal is if you could gate channels
2019-08-10T04:44:53 < rajkosto> but no it can only copy the timer value into the channel when some event happens (rising or falling edge)
2019-08-10T04:45:04 < rajkosto> into the CCR*
2019-08-10T04:46:28 < Cracki> DMA that can do arithmetic with data would be nice...
2019-08-10T04:46:57 < Cracki> don't remember seeing that in stm32 but saw it related to some graphics applications somewhere
2019-08-10T04:50:19 < Cracki> lol mcp overdid it: https://sourceforge.net/p/gcbasic/discussion/579125/thread/a5d8fd5cab/1c1e/attachment/DM320115.JPG
2019-08-10T04:50:33 < Cracki> that thing will break in half
2019-08-10T04:51:10 < rajkosto> l o n g
2019-08-10T04:51:58 < Cracki> the maned wolf of tarduinos
2019-08-10T04:52:10 < Cracki> wait, it has no legs yet
2019-08-10T04:54:16 < rajkosto> is this how you do integer division btw https://pastebin.com/8ZA2mc8n
2019-08-10T04:54:31 < Cracki> wat
2019-08-10T04:55:28 < Cracki> why would you lug around 16 superfluous bits on the lower end
2019-08-10T04:55:37 < rajkosto> fixed.point.
2019-08-10T04:55:45 < Cracki> just *255 before dividing
2019-08-10T04:56:28 < Cracki> you shift them off before returning so it's a local implementation detail, and a pointless one at that
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2019-08-10T04:56:47 < rajkosto> dunno made sense to me as 16.16 fixed point
2019-08-10T04:57:05 < Cracki> nah that's silly
2019-08-10T04:57:29 < Cracki> with * 255 / period, then saturate
2019-08-10T04:57:34 < Cracki> *width
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2019-08-10T05:01:41 < rajkosto> https://pastebin.com/71SxVXXq
2019-08-10T05:01:52 < Cracki> wat why
2019-08-10T05:01:58 < Cracki> ah, *255
2019-08-10T05:02:12 < rajkosto> FAST
2019-08-10T05:02:12 < Cracki> you are trying to make the compiler jobless
2019-08-10T05:02:27 < Cracki> like that fucker doesn't see the optimization
2019-08-10T05:02:35 < rajkosto> cant trust it
2019-08-10T05:02:43 < Cracki> *laughs in toaster*
2019-08-10T05:04:37 < salcedo> vue.js is kind of rad
2019-08-10T05:04:52 < salcedo> kind of happy i went into vue.js rabbit hole with reflow ui
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2019-08-10T05:05:54 < rajkosto> Cracki, do i even need the saturate
2019-08-10T05:06:06 < Cracki> consider value ranges?
2019-08-10T05:06:40 < rajkosto> if width is always <= period
2019-08-10T05:06:45 < Cracki> you can forego the min/max/whatever if you compare both numbers before (x/y > 1 <=> x > y)
2019-08-10T05:06:56 < Cracki> for nonnegatives
2019-08-10T05:07:09 < Cracki> are you sure it's always <=?
2019-08-10T05:07:20 < rajkosto> it wasnt with the timer nonsense
2019-08-10T05:07:24 < rajkosto> but with software counting iti s
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2019-08-10T05:22:15 < jadew> ffs...
2019-08-10T05:22:43 < jadew> I just made photos to a board I was planning to start selling today and I realized I put the wrong part number on the silkscreen :/
2019-08-10T05:22:56 < jadew> from a different product
2019-08-10T05:25:01 < Cracki> photoshop!
2019-08-10T05:25:15 < jadew> yeah... but I don't have that letter anywhere else, so I can't copy it
2019-08-10T05:25:27 < Cracki> scratch it off, get a plotter and some white permanent marker
2019-08-10T05:25:52 < jadew> I'll try with the marker
2019-08-10T05:25:54 < Cracki> screw copying. export from eda software :P
2019-08-10T05:26:02 < jadew> :)
2019-08-10T05:26:30 < Cracki> board pics these days are expected to be rendered from exported 3d files
2019-08-10T05:26:51 < Cracki> I'm sure someone even came up with artificial scratches and grime
2019-08-10T05:27:11 < jadew> the other ones are normal tho
2019-08-10T05:27:24 < Cracki> or halfway realistic solder joints, or randomly disturbed component positions/rotations
2019-08-10T05:29:32 < jadew> I like my boards to be perfect
2019-08-10T05:30:14 < jadew> I felt awful when I had to ship boards with weird solder mask
2019-08-10T05:30:26 < jadew> made other mistakes too on these boards
2019-08-10T05:30:29 < Cracki> awful! gutterfucks *taped* over the lettering on that IC https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-1026198848-green-circuit-board-background-pc-computer-motherboard
2019-08-10T05:30:31 < jadew> (with the silkscreen)
2019-08-10T05:31:02 < Cracki> perfectionism, a good trait, if you keep it from getting clinical
2019-08-10T05:31:48 < jadew> found an M!
2019-08-10T05:31:53 < jadew> in "Made in"
2019-08-10T05:31:58 < jadew> (the missing letter)
2019-08-10T05:32:09 < Cracki> marvelous
2019-08-10T05:32:28 < jadew> but if I fix the photo with that letter, then people who will receive it with the crappy PN will assume I sent them an older revision
2019-08-10T05:32:39 < jadew> or... not the nice one
2019-08-10T05:34:03 < Cracki> maybe polish them off completely
2019-08-10T05:34:23 < Cracki> or just throw them in the trash. customers will certainly notice! :>
2019-08-10T05:34:28 < jadew> that's what I'll do in the picture and I'll mention the error when I pitch them
2019-08-10T05:35:06 < jadew> Cracki, I could throw them in the trash but I wanted to start selling them today
2019-08-10T05:35:08 < jadew> grr
2019-08-10T05:35:17 < Cracki> don't even consider it
2019-08-10T05:35:20 < Cracki> sell sell sell!
2019-08-10T05:35:46 < jadew> I've done it before
2019-08-10T05:35:50 < jadew> for the same reason
2019-08-10T05:35:56 < Cracki> my boss has paper labels he just sticks on boards
2019-08-10T05:36:17 < Cracki> a few sheets blank for hand writing, some sheets printed with important looking serial numbers
2019-08-10T05:36:51 < jadew> I have a white space on the board for manually writing serial numbers
2019-08-10T05:37:01 < jadew> thought about printing and adding labels
2019-08-10T05:37:05 < jadew> might not be the worst idea
2019-08-10T05:37:20 < jadew> I could cover the whole PN thing
2019-08-10T05:37:42 < jadew> FUCK
2019-08-10T05:37:45 < Cracki> >_> just paper over it
2019-08-10T05:38:04 < Cracki> hahaha this is very amusing
2019-08-10T05:38:34 < jadew> heh, it's a little funny :)
2019-08-10T05:38:47 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/PDqmGHHKkWw
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2019-08-10T05:38:57 < Cracki> srsly if you tell customers that you're obsessing over an error on the silk screen, they'll think you have nothing worse to obsess about
2019-08-10T05:39:04 < Cracki> so maybe just confess
2019-08-10T05:39:24 < jadew> oh, I was going to confess anyway
2019-08-10T05:39:59 < Cracki> ... and leave it at that
2019-08-10T05:40:16 < jadew> I was planning to give a 15% discount on the first batch
2019-08-10T05:40:23 < jadew> I could make it larger
2019-08-10T05:40:32 < Cracki> like the early adopter tier on a dickstarter
2019-08-10T05:40:59 < jadew> now there's also a reason to give the discount, the silkscreen is wrong :P
2019-08-10T05:42:03 < jadew> I can't sell it like this :/
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2019-08-10T05:42:13 < rajkosto> why NOT
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2019-08-10T05:42:27 < jadew> it has the wrong PN
2019-08-10T05:42:35 < rajkosto> of the board itself ?
2019-08-10T05:42:36 < jadew> the link is fine, the PN is wrong
2019-08-10T05:42:39 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-10T05:42:45 < rajkosto> put a sticker over it before ship
2019-08-10T05:43:59 < jadew> I'll give it a try
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2019-08-10T05:56:09 < jadew> I photoshopped the letter in, now I have to see if I can make a nice label
2019-08-10T05:57:38 < jadew> at least the photo is salvaged
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2019-08-10T06:58:53 < jadew> if I was in china I could have fixed this in a matter of days
2019-08-10T06:59:37 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-08-10T07:27:08 < jly> If I was in china i'd be looking for the dogs
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2019-08-10T07:49:50 < jadew> jly, because you're hungry?
2019-08-10T07:50:07 < jly> yes of course
2019-08-10T07:53:11 < jadew> dongs, where do people watch sports online in japan?
2019-08-10T07:54:06 < jadew> someone asked me to find a live stream of the rugby thing going on over the next couple of months
2019-08-10T07:54:17 < jadew> paid or free
2019-08-10T08:05:04 < rajkosto> bah
2019-08-10T08:05:12 < rajkosto> you cant have a timer both gated by its CH1 AND a slave to another timer
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2019-08-10T09:48:47 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgofhfZFLjU
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2019-08-10T10:57:49 < rajkosto> theres SPI waveforms for driving ws2812b but its only for 72MHz cpu clock
2019-08-10T10:58:01 < rajkosto> at 128MHz they wrong, how fix
2019-08-10T11:00:41 < rajkosto> and i cant compensate by changing spi divider
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2019-08-10T11:40:32 < ohsix> https://m.techxplore.com/news/2019-08-first-ever-personalised-projector-webcam.html
2019-08-10T11:40:50 < ohsix> man that is hard to read in a browser
2019-08-10T11:41:56 < ohsix> internet is weird, this was in the news soon after i was asking in here about sound projection
2019-08-10T11:52:29 < rajkosto> next time you hear voices you might not just be insane
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2019-08-10T11:56:36 < RocketScientist> Hello
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2019-08-10T11:57:31 < RocketScientist> I wrote some code for this STM32 kit https://www.waveshare.com/product/mcu-tools/stm32/open/open746i-c-package-a.htm
2019-08-10T11:58:01 < RocketScientist> But kit was not mine and I don't have it anymore
2019-08-10T11:58:35 < RocketScientist> If anyone have it, please I will send my HEX file and tell me if it works
2019-08-10T12:01:32 < zyp> RocketScientist, what's your goal?
2019-08-10T12:03:00 < RocketScientist> zyp: LCD redrawing with vertical synchronization, without screen tearing effect
2019-08-10T12:03:33 < zyp> what's the point of making the code if you don't have the kit?
2019-08-10T12:03:51 < RocketScientist> zyp: I will buy it if code works :)
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2019-08-10T12:04:08 < zyp> will you not buy it if the code doesn't work?
2019-08-10T12:04:36 < RocketScientist> of course not
2019-08-10T12:05:59 < zyp> why not? sounds like a weird order of priorities
2019-08-10T12:06:21 < zyp> normally one buys the devboard first so they can test the code, figure out what's wrong with it and bring it to work
2019-08-10T12:06:51 < zyp> making the code work first and then buying the devboard sounds kinda pointless :)
2019-08-10T12:07:16 < RocketScientist> zyp: I have STM32F769I Discovery and with MIPI LCD and it just is not capable of redrawing 800x480 screen without tearing in any MIPI mode
2019-08-10T12:07:59 < RocketScientist> zyp: Adapted command mode with TE pin works fastest but still gets very some tearing at somewhere top 1/16 of screen
2019-08-10T12:09:15 < RocketScientist> zyp: I tested code with that kit but without tearing suppression in mind, at that time I was testing plenty of other things too except LCD, I forgot.
2019-08-10T12:10:30 < RocketScientist> zyp: With parallel RGB interface it should be capable of redrawing screen without tearing but I have never tested it
2019-08-10T12:10:50 < zyp> ah, I see
2019-08-10T12:11:34 < zyp> sounds strange that you can't make it work in MIPI mode
2019-08-10T12:12:22 < zyp> I've never played with it, but I believe it has a blanking period just like every other interface and that you can just do the buffer swap during the blanking period
2019-08-10T12:13:25 < RocketScientist> zyp: Exactly, I need to test switching framebuffer (double buffering from SDRAM) at HAL_LTDC_LineEventCallback interrupt with RGB
2019-08-10T12:13:53 < zyp> and MIPI doesn't have the equivalent?
2019-08-10T12:14:03 < RocketScientist> zyp: With MIPI video mode, I switch buffer at line 0 but it takes more time to redraw screen than blanking period
2019-08-10T12:14:42 < zyp> that doesn't make sense
2019-08-10T12:15:03 < zyp> you're not redrawing during blanking period, just exchanging buffer pointers
2019-08-10T12:15:19 < zyp> then you're redrawing on the back buffer between each exchange
2019-08-10T12:16:07 < zyp> if you're still seeing tearing, I guess that means you're not doing the exchange during the blanking period
2019-08-10T12:16:20 < zyp> so try adjusting which line you do it at
2019-08-10T12:20:10 < RocketScientist> zyp: Even original lcd demo examples have ugly tearing. STM32F769NIHx maximum speed of MIPI in Video mode 62.5 mhz with 2lane. so 800*480*24*60/2 = 276.48Mhz so it is not fast enough to change image on screen at blanking period, is not it?
2019-08-10T12:20:45 < RocketScientist> zyp: With Parallel RGB it should, but never tested yet with that interrupt
2019-08-10T12:22:54 < RocketScientist> Do anyone have that kit? please
2019-08-10T12:23:21 < zyp> hmm
2019-08-10T12:23:45 < zyp> okay, let me get this right, the display has its own memory buffer, and adapted command mode sends updates to it?
2019-08-10T12:24:18 < RocketScientist> zyp: exactly
2019-08-10T12:24:27 < zyp> in that case it makes sense that the display does its own internal refresh that can happen out of sync with the update
2019-08-10T12:24:31 < RocketScientist> zyp: actually it is using it's own memory in any mode
2019-08-10T12:24:54 < zyp> but still, you'd think MIPI DSI was new and decent enough that it was designed to avoid tearing
2019-08-10T12:25:37 < RocketScientist> zyp: no idea, even original demos has very noticeable tearing
2019-08-10T12:26:08 < RocketScientist> zyp: You can test Video mode and command mode demos, I clearly see half cut image between switching, anyone can see.
2019-08-10T12:26:30 < zyp> RM0410 rev4 page 637 and 638 talks about how to deal with tearing
2019-08-10T12:26:59 < zyp> did you already try looking into that?
2019-08-10T12:27:33 < zyp> I wouldn't put too much weight on vendor demos, I get the impression that they are often made by summer interns and whatnot :p
2019-08-10T12:30:30 < zyp> I also got the f7 discovery somewhere, so if I had time I'd dig it out and try it myself, but I don't
2019-08-10T12:30:37 < RocketScientist> zyp: I remember one demo, from TouchGFX, bird catching coins, I did not remember it I
2019-08-10T12:30:47 < zyp> and I don't have the other kit, so I can't help you there
2019-08-10T12:30:50 < RocketScientist> I did not remember if I've seen tearing there
2019-08-10T12:30:53 < RocketScientist> will test now :)
2019-08-10T12:30:56 < zyp> but yes, naturallt plain LTDC would avoid tearing
2019-08-10T12:33:07 < kakimir> recommend a case for a file server
2019-08-10T12:33:14 < kakimir> a lot of 2.5 bays
2019-08-10T12:33:18 < kakimir> easy access
2019-08-10T12:33:32 < kakimir> inexpensive
2019-08-10T12:36:08 < RocketScientist> kakimir: If file server is made from i.MX QSB or Raspberry or something small sized, best option is acrylic DIY case I think.
2019-08-10T12:36:54 < kakimir> I use pci-e LSI cards
2019-08-10T12:37:07 < kakimir> I don't want DIY
2019-08-10T12:37:14 < kakimir> I want it already done
2019-08-10T12:40:16 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY5-WUmK2iY encore
2019-08-10T12:45:57 < RocketScientist> Any idea with a chance to get STM32 programming job online please, (except Upwork and similar sites). I lost my job recently.
2019-08-10T12:46:15 < Steffanx> You should dump all of your requirements kakimir.
2019-08-10T12:46:31 < kakimir> basic psu
2019-08-10T12:46:40 < kakimir> some mini mobo
2019-08-10T12:46:48 < kakimir> it has like 2 pci slots
2019-08-10T12:47:05 < kakimir> it should not be unneccesarily large
2019-08-10T12:49:06 < Steffanx> The Fractal 804 fits, but it's not exactly cheap :P
2019-08-10T12:50:06 < Steffanx> and perphaps not small, but .. small and "a lot of 2.5 bays" does not go together imho
2019-08-10T12:57:10 < RocketScientist> "Subscribe to my YouTube channel, please" is allowed here? or I will be banned?
2019-08-10T12:59:29 < kakimir> Steffanx: small as in I don't have box with a lot of unusable space inside
2019-08-10T13:01:30 < RocketScientist> so, please subscribe to my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1JL39CUcOVuqr4rSOFGA6g
2019-08-10T13:01:46 < mrus> anyone here played around with ST's LSM303DLHC?
2019-08-10T13:03:16 < RocketScientist> mrus: actually they all work almost similar, even registers are with same addresses mostly
2019-08-10T13:06:48 < mrus> RocketScientist: I was wondering how to get a valid compass reading out of it, since the Mahony Filter I've been using so far is expecting a gyro along with the accelerotmeter & the mag values.
2019-08-10T13:06:59 < RocketScientist> mrus: I made this many years ago https://youtu.be/8WFHPoDRe6c
2019-08-10T13:08:04 < RocketScientist> mrus: I can write it for you, from start till end, send working source, and pay me $5 if it will work fine, ok?
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2019-08-10T13:19:00 < kakimir> Steffanx: it's good i'll order one
2019-08-10T13:29:33 < kakimir> it was the right price for non-crappy case
2019-08-10T13:29:54 < kakimir> I mean what can you get for 40 or so
2019-08-10T13:30:04 < kakimir> cardboard box
2019-08-10T13:32:23 < kakimir> one you recommended was 76eur + shipping
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2019-08-10T13:41:44 < kakimir> if I want to keep my server in suspended mode
2019-08-10T13:42:23 < kakimir> could it work that there is configuration in router that sends WoL packet to server when some client tries to contact it
2019-08-10T13:43:13 < kakimir> practically it will still timeout?
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2019-08-10T14:18:54 < tctw_> oi
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2019-08-10T14:26:48 < Steffanx> hello to you too, moite.
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2019-08-10T15:11:11 < kakimir> moite
2019-08-10T15:28:58 < tctw> how's life?
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2019-08-10T18:30:22 < jadew> I wish matlab script would be better
2019-08-10T18:30:27 < jadew> are there alternatives?
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2019-08-10T19:18:04 < Steffanx> python/scipy/matplotlib
2019-08-10T19:19:09 < effractur> gnuplot
2019-08-10T19:19:28 < bitmask> muh boards are in the states
2019-08-10T19:21:58 < jadew> Steffanx & effractur, thanks, I'll check them out
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2019-08-10T19:23:04 < Steffanx> but it all depends on what of matlab you need
2019-08-10T19:23:24 < jadew> I just need quick plotting of various stuff and objects
2019-08-10T19:23:31 < jadew> like in OOP
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2019-08-10T19:24:25 < jadew> I don't know how else to model complex systems
2019-08-10T19:24:33 < jadew> (like an oven)
2019-08-10T19:25:35 < jadew> I could keep the state in an array and pass that along to functions, but that makes my skin crawl
2019-08-10T19:26:54 < Steffanx> Arent you pretty familiar with C#?
2019-08-10T19:27:25 < jadew> well, was hoping for something that has built in math stuff
2019-08-10T19:28:47 < Thorn> the dutch ambulance channel is destroyed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L9F4JyFyy0 (see the comment)
2019-08-10T19:28:50 < Thorn> motherfuckers
2019-08-10T19:31:15 < Steffanx> poor Thorn.
2019-08-10T19:32:04 < Thorn> what privacy concerns, he has never shown any patient
2019-08-10T19:32:05 < Steffanx> Now you'll have to watch russian road rage/road accident movies again?
2019-08-10T19:34:10 < Thorn> russian firefighters, they don't care about privacy
2019-08-10T19:36:07 < Steffanx> From what i read the privacy wasnt an issue, but the (shitload) of questions people dumped at the guys employer. (which the employer didnt like, obviously)
2019-08-10T19:36:17 < Steffanx> questions about privacy.
2019-08-10T19:37:12 < Steffanx> And perhaps the newish GDPR is related to this. No one really knows what it's all about.
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2019-08-10T19:56:06 < Cracki> jadew, numpy? which part of matlab are you trying to replace? simulink is gonna be tricky
2019-08-10T19:56:39 < jadew> Cracki, I don't have matlab, if I had simulink I probably wouldn't want to switch
2019-08-10T19:56:41 < Cracki> what's OOP, if it's not object oriented programming
2019-08-10T19:56:43 < jadew> I'm using octave
2019-08-10T19:56:46 < Cracki> ic
2019-08-10T19:56:49 < jadew> that's what it is
2019-08-10T19:57:32 < Cracki> so... fixed time step, modeling diff eqs and plotting?
2019-08-10T19:57:41 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-10T19:58:56 < Cracki> matlab has fancy things to calculate in laplace space, I'm sure someone reinvented that for numpy or sympy
2019-08-10T20:00:03 < Cracki> otherwise... the "simple" matlab examples for dif eqs do the calculations by hand too. decide on time step, then evaluate derivatives and integrals based on that, for successive time steps, i.e. big loop
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2019-08-10T20:57:17 < bitmask> why imgur, why?
2019-08-10T20:58:20 < bitmask> there we go
2019-08-10T20:58:21 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/LK4LoRe
2019-08-10T20:58:26 < bitmask> this thing is ridiculous
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2019-08-10T21:04:48 < stusbd> If I end up changing the clocks on-the-fly, I need to also deinit and reinit or just reset components like SPI or USB, right?
2019-08-10T21:11:05 < jadew> bitmask, I forgot, what was the fan for?
2019-08-10T21:11:14 < jadew> it looks really nice
2019-08-10T21:11:28 < bitmask> air purifier
2019-08-10T21:11:42 < Ultrasauce> build a hovercraft
2019-08-10T21:11:43 < jadew> ah, right
2019-08-10T21:11:51 < Ultrasauce> that is also an air purifier
2019-08-10T21:11:52 < jadew> for the bench?
2019-08-10T21:12:04 < jadew> I remember now
2019-08-10T21:12:10 < bitmask> I wanted to be able to turn the speed up and use it as a vacuum for project debris but not sure how it will work out like that
2019-08-10T21:12:17 < bitmask> not for the bench, just for my room
2019-08-10T21:12:24 < bitmask> which my 'bench' is in
2019-08-10T21:12:32 < bitmask> it just gets very dusty in here
2019-08-10T21:12:37 < jadew> I have a huge air purifier that I don't use
2019-08-10T21:12:57 < bitmask> I'm hoping its not too loud, and being able to use shopvac filters should make it cheaper to maintain
2019-08-10T21:13:28 < bitmask> you can get hepa equivalent ones too
2019-08-10T21:13:44 < bitmask> and this will just pop into a 5 gallon bucket
2019-08-10T21:14:16 < jadew> I think this is the one I have: https://www2.blueair.com/europe/air-purifiers/classic-503
2019-08-10T21:14:34 < bitmask> looks nice
2019-08-10T21:15:00 < jadew> or maybe not.. the button looks different
2019-08-10T21:15:03 < bitmask> HEPASilent technology :)
2019-08-10T21:15:19 < jadew> that just means the fan is spinning slower :P
2019-08-10T21:15:47 < bitmask> 120W seems pretty standard
2019-08-10T21:15:59 < bitmask> 5 air changes per hour is fine
2019-08-10T21:16:18 < jadew> that's the one I have
2019-08-10T21:16:21 < salcedo> Made with <3 in SFBA with HEPAtitis technology
2019-08-10T21:16:59 < jadew> bitmask, did you see my fume extractor?
2019-08-10T21:17:04 < bitmask> nope
2019-08-10T21:17:11 < jadew> finished it yesterday
2019-08-10T21:17:15 < bitmask> pics
2019-08-10T21:17:19 < jadew> not as fancy as your thing, but gets the job done
2019-08-10T21:17:21 < jadew> give me a sec
2019-08-10T21:17:49 < jadew> http://5.12.165.195/stuff/IMG_20190810_002748_.jpg
2019-08-10T21:18:03 < jadew> and there's another fan at the middle of the hose
2019-08-10T21:18:27 < jadew> that one is off the shelf, specifically for this
2019-08-10T21:18:43 < bitmask> nice
2019-08-10T21:19:15 < bitmask> ive been wanting to print a solder spool holder too
2019-08-10T21:19:44 < bitmask> 120mm fan?
2019-08-10T21:19:55 < bitmask> cant tell what size that is
2019-08-10T21:19:55 < jadew> that one is an 80 mm fan I think
2019-08-10T21:19:58 < bitmask> oh ok
2019-08-10T21:20:09 < bitmask> yea 120 I guess would be too big
2019-08-10T21:20:15 < jadew> the flexible PVC tube is 100 mm in diameter
2019-08-10T21:20:49 < jadew> bitmask, 120 mm would be better, but I wanted something as small as possible
2019-08-10T21:20:57 < bitmask> ahh
2019-08-10T21:21:05 < jadew> I'm not thrilled by the thickness of the tube, but that's all I could get
2019-08-10T21:21:18 < bitmask> have you tried with and without the fan shroud thing? I wonder if its necessary?
2019-08-10T21:21:47 < bitmask> I guess I cant really see whats behind it so maybe it looks better with it
2019-08-10T21:21:50 < jadew> the little cone?
2019-08-10T21:21:52 < bitmask> yea
2019-08-10T21:22:13 < jadew> I think it is necessary so it sucks air from the front
2019-08-10T21:22:22 < bitmask> k
2019-08-10T21:22:23 < jadew> without it, it would also suck air from the sides and behind the fan box
2019-08-10T21:22:27 < Ultrasauce> prevents succ-diffraction
2019-08-10T21:22:56 < bitmask> how far does it extend out, it looks very short which is why i questioned it, maybe its just the perspective
2019-08-10T21:23:12 < jadew> I would have made it wider, but I went with 45 degrees because of 3d printing limits
2019-08-10T21:23:33 < jadew> it's about 5 cm in height
2019-08-10T21:23:46 < bitmask> I see, I think I just had it perceived incorrectly
2019-08-10T21:24:05 < jadew> we're still talking about the cone, right?
2019-08-10T21:24:12 < bitmask> yea
2019-08-10T21:24:39 < jadew> seems to suck well from 10 cm away
2019-08-10T21:25:04 < jadew> (10 cm from the cone)
2019-08-10T21:25:31 < jadew> but I'd normally have it closer
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2019-08-10T21:31:26 < jadew> I must have missed this, it seems siglent now has a 1 GHz scope
2019-08-10T21:32:06 < bitmask> sounds expensive
2019-08-10T21:32:15 < jadew> > 5k it seems
2019-08-10T21:35:01 < bitmask> hmm, bought a $10 hard drive for the motor to make a sander, not sure why I do things sometimes :P
2019-08-10T21:36:46 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3785948
2019-08-10T21:37:03 < bitmask> this guy pisses me off though, he doesn't put in tolerances on his designs
2019-08-10T21:37:37 < Ultrasauce> are you expecting rigorous engineering on thingiverse
2019-08-10T21:38:43 < bitmask> hah no but most people at least put in tolerances for parts that fit together
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2019-08-10T21:43:21 < jadew> that's a neat tool
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2019-08-10T21:46:22 < bitmask> I made his paste/flux extruder thing
2019-08-10T21:46:30 < bitmask> works pretty well after modifying it
2019-08-10T21:46:55 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3148234
2019-08-10T21:48:31 < jadew> I have a compressed air one
2019-08-10T21:48:49 < bitmask> well arent you fancy :P
2019-08-10T21:48:53 < jadew> :P
2019-08-10T21:49:07 < jadew> I think it's worth the investment if you find yourself doing that too often
2019-08-10T21:49:29 < bitmask> maybe in the future, ive never used paste before
2019-08-10T21:49:35 < bitmask> gonna try it with these boards coming monday
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2019-08-10T22:21:26 < Thorn> Pls in kind prevail, HUANAN company will not make any further notice.
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--- Day changed Sun Aug 11 2019
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2019-08-11T00:37:03 < jadew> anyone got a smaller work space than this? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/whats-your-work-benchlab-look-like-post-some-pictures-of-your-lab/?action=dlattach;attach=741144;image
2019-08-11T00:37:05 < kakimir> hello dear
2019-08-11T00:37:27 < kakimir> that cozy
2019-08-11T00:38:30 < jadew> it's suspiciously clean under the desk
2019-08-11T00:38:38 < jadew> I wonder if that's where the entrance is
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2019-08-11T00:39:33 < kakimir> hidden lab
2019-08-11T00:39:53 < jadew> when he gets a new bit of gear, he drags it in, like a dog
2019-08-11T00:40:22 < kakimir> tail swinging
2019-08-11T00:40:37 < bitmask> ohh this zyltech fortress gray looks nice, glad I went with that instead of black (just a dark dark gray)
2019-08-11T00:42:47 < Laurenceb> https://endchan.xyz/.media/fde81dd3fdb39cfa3fbc233384f2e803-imagepng.png
2019-08-11T00:44:38 < Cracki> lol I have more "lab space" but not as much gear... not that i'd need it atm
2019-08-11T00:45:04 < Laurenceb> the female chris-chan
2019-08-11T00:45:20 < jadew> Cracki, he does have a lot of gear in there
2019-08-11T00:45:34 < Cracki> microscope. those are very nice to have.
2019-08-11T00:45:49 < jadew> yeah, I like how he mounted it
2019-08-11T00:46:07 < Laurenceb> >eevblog
2019-08-11T00:46:13 < Cracki> I keep lurking on ebay for at least 2-4x magnification glasses (why the fuck does english not have a name for nose bicycles)
2019-08-11T00:46:46 < Laurenceb> sounds like a Nikki Minaj rap
2019-08-11T00:47:08 < jadew> Laurenceb, are you a fan?
2019-08-11T00:47:35 < Cracki> that workspace DOES look like it was meant to face the window, but then he stacked all that gear up and now he sees nothing
2019-08-11T00:48:04 < jadew> well, he has good lighting
2019-08-11T00:48:23 < Cracki> and I agree that he probably crawls under the table, entering from the far/window side
2019-08-11T00:48:46 < Cracki> inb4 that used to be the shitter and he took that photo standing on the throne
2019-08-11T00:48:56 < jadew> haha
2019-08-11T00:50:08 < Laurenceb> >Hope you lads are using a VPN again, they're claiming the Oslo mosque shooter posted on endchan 
2019-08-11T00:50:15 < Laurenceb> holy fucking shit
2019-08-11T00:50:57 < Cracki> why is it such a big deal that finally the natives turn the table on those religious terrorists
2019-08-11T00:51:49 < Cracki> makes you wonder if borders weren't such a bad idea after all
2019-08-11T00:53:28 < salcedo> because they don't want to start a war
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2019-08-11T00:55:50 < Cracki> >two wounded
2019-08-11T00:56:38 < Cracki> yeah, that's reason enough to go 1984
2019-08-11T00:58:30 < Cracki> imagine the backlash against innocent natives because of one mentally disturbed individual
2019-08-11T00:59:51 < salcedo> 0
2019-08-11T01:00:27 < salcedo> there's no such thing as backlash against natives. all refugees are just normal people trying to start new lives after fleeing from oppressive governments and war zones.
2019-08-11T01:04:45 < Cracki> I've got it! we should flee from our oppressive regimes to africa, start new lives there!
2019-08-11T01:06:16 < Cracki> no cold goddamn winters, enough arable land to feed twenty billion people, and tigers aren't any harder to domesticate than wolves
2019-08-11T01:07:25 < salcedo> sounds like an awesome plan... until the UN shows up and "peacekeeps" your ass with some nato rounds.
2019-08-11T01:07:53 < Cracki> vibranium-armored steroid tigers!
2019-08-11T01:08:04 < Cracki> they eat nato rounds for breakfast
2019-08-11T01:10:09 < Cracki> yakub was a white guy on the inside, just tanned well
2019-08-11T01:12:29 < Laurenceb> holy crap
2019-08-11T01:12:31 < Laurenceb> https://endchan.xyz/.media/46ad59b06644d70e5af75758ea37ed08-imagepng.png
2019-08-11T01:13:14 < Cracki> kek
2019-08-11T01:13:18 < Cracki> total psyop
2019-08-11T01:14:02 < Laurenceb> ikr
2019-08-11T01:14:13 < Laurenceb> the absolute state 
2019-08-11T01:14:58 < Cracki> there are only two reactions to this shit. (1) desensitization (2) agree and amplify
2019-08-11T01:15:13 < Laurenceb> plot twist: it was zyp
2019-08-11T01:15:50 < Cracki> nah, I'm sure he'd have fared better than the guy they put in handcuffs
2019-08-11T01:15:58 < Laurenceb> heh
2019-08-11T01:16:02 < zyp> Laurenceb, sup?
2019-08-11T01:16:07 < Laurenceb> ah its ok
2019-08-11T01:16:13 < Laurenceb> we thought you might be the shooter
2019-08-11T01:16:35 < Cracki> he did, I don't :P
2019-08-11T01:17:14 < Cracki> but see, this is what I mean, suddenly all norsemen are under suspicion, even though they didn't do anything!
2019-08-11T01:17:34 < zyp> oh, I haven't really had time to check the news yet
2019-08-11T01:17:47 < zyp> heard they said something about shooting on the radio, but I don't know the details
2019-08-11T01:17:49 < Cracki> we need to stand in solidarity with all norsemen
2019-08-11T01:17:54 < Laurenceb> >norsemen
2019-08-11T01:17:57 < Laurenceb> hail Odin my fellow norsement amirite
2019-08-11T01:18:58 < Cracki> hah who would be dumb enough to do the "fellow X" spiel in 2019
2019-08-11T01:22:14 < zyp> oh, right, somebody went to shoot up a mosque, and then got detained before he even shot anybody
2019-08-11T01:23:12 < Cracki> his father must be disappointed
2019-08-11T01:23:19 < zyp> although they've also found a dead woman that has some connection to the guy, investigated as murder
2019-08-11T01:23:41 < zyp> not a lot of details about that, but sounds like a girlfriend, possibly ex
2019-08-11T01:23:49 < Cracki> wat
2019-08-11T01:24:35 < Cracki> doesn't sound implausible. someone who did one dumb thing suddenly thinks he has nothing to lose and adds to it
2019-08-11T01:25:32 < Cracki> things get dangerous when people lose everything through no fault of their own
2019-08-11T01:26:03 < Cracki> eh, back to watching a movie. let's hope "darkest minds" is any good.
2019-08-11T01:28:03 < kakimir> movie recommds
2019-08-11T01:29:27 < Cracki> shades of grey, if you want to cringe so hard your poop turns into a neutron star
2019-08-11T01:31:24 < kakimir> I don't rewatch
2019-08-11T01:31:52 < kakimir> until I'm not totally sure if I have seen the movie
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2019-08-11T01:35:43 < jadew> there have been no more good movies
2019-08-11T01:35:49 < jadew> they stopped
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2019-08-11T02:18:41 < Laurenceb> keek
2019-08-11T02:18:42 < Laurenceb> https://endchan.xyz/.media/60a4ae97c084ed8d9b87c2980326453c-imagepng.png
2019-08-11T02:19:13 < Laurenceb> >Who the hell's this black guy and why does he look like he's about to cry?
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2019-08-11T02:49:41 < salcedo> Laurenceb: endchan now showing 500 internal server error
2019-08-11T02:52:16 < Laurenceb> ikr
2019-08-11T02:52:32 < Laurenceb> there was an endchan shooter earlier
2019-08-11T02:53:39 < Laurenceb> tfw the shooters head back to 4chan
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2019-08-11T02:55:24 < Laurenceb> irc shooters when
2019-08-11T03:01:50 < Cracki> who *is* that black guy who looks like he's about to cry?
2019-08-11T03:02:55 < Cracki> oh, it's just the anime eyes instagram filter
2019-08-11T03:25:24 < Laurenceb> kek wtf title
2019-08-11T03:25:26 < Laurenceb> https://yro.slashdot.org/story/19/08/09/2244200/ai-pioneer-accused-of-having-sex-with-trafficking-victim-on-jeffrey-epsteins-island
2019-08-11T03:27:21 < Laurenceb> > Marvin Minsky was one of the few fraudulent MIT professors to be caught and called out by DARPA and forced to re-pay millions in grants that developed nothing but deceptively worded fluff 
2019-08-11T03:27:32  * Laurenceb looks around nervously
2019-08-11T03:28:10 < Laurenceb> babbyshake pedo island when
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2019-08-11T03:30:03 < Laurenceb> >he was deposed to the Icon Media lab, where he was 'kept' in relative isolation. Minksy was a pervert in high school
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2019-08-11T03:34:05 < Cracki> surprise surprise, AI was a hype and people exploited it
2019-08-11T03:34:18 < Cracki> >pervert in high school
2019-08-11T03:34:22 < Cracki> who was NOT?
2019-08-11T03:37:44 < specing> I wasnt
2019-08-11T03:40:09 < Cracki> you perv or you get perved. must have been the latter.
2019-08-11T03:44:59 < jadew> today's progress on the oven controller:
2019-08-11T03:45:10 < jadew> I managed to do everything but that
2019-08-11T03:45:39 < jadew> not sure why I can't get started on this project
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2019-08-11T03:46:41 < specing> Cracki: neither
2019-08-11T03:46:48 < specing> Cracki: I went to an all-boys school
2019-08-11T03:46:54 < Cracki> :3
2019-08-11T03:46:56 < jadew> lol
2019-08-11T03:47:15 < specing> well ok, there was one girl in the other class
2019-08-11T03:47:29 < specing> s/girl/female landwhale/
2019-08-11T03:47:44 < Cracki> if you think a school being all-boys is a hindrance, you missed out
2019-08-11T03:47:49 < jadew> if she was the only one there, I bet everyone jerked off thinking of her
2019-08-11T03:47:49 < specing> it was a CS/EE high school
2019-08-11T03:48:08 < Cracki> situational homosexuality.
2019-08-11T03:48:36 < specing> the air was so saturated with thestosterone you could hardly breathe
2019-08-11T03:49:05 < Cracki> that's not T, that's ordinary body odor
2019-08-11T04:08:56 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/lji3UNT.gifv
2019-08-11T04:10:44 < dongs> jadew: they dont
2019-08-11T04:11:13 < Cracki> he can still move, all good :)
2019-08-11T04:11:37 < jadew> dongs, there's got to be something
2019-08-11T04:11:47 < Cracki> teachers
2019-08-11T04:11:49 < jadew> I'll have to find an english one tho
2019-08-11T04:15:27 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/Jc4Uzvv.gifv
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2019-08-11T04:32:57 < jadew> I've been looking for this for an entire hour, so I could post it as a reply to what specing said: https://imgur.com/gallery/nz0nZ
2019-08-11T04:38:45 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/CGpjLQ1
2019-08-11T04:38:48 < Cracki> *g*
2019-08-11T04:38:49 < bitmask> I know its ugly, had  to sand it
2019-08-11T04:39:21 < bitmask> just glued the legs on, wasn't sure I was gonna have enough time before the glue dried to do all 8 at once but I think it will work fine
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2019-08-11T09:42:01 < benishor> hi guys
2019-08-11T09:42:27 < jly> gooday sport
2019-08-11T09:42:41 < jly> let's tune into my favourite jew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fODXWfY1oHE
2019-08-11T09:43:08 < benishor> quick question: I'm using a stm32f746 discovery board and am trying to get some DAC output going. The problem in this case is that the datasheet specifies that the DAC outputs are PA4 and PA5 and I can't see any of those pins exposed in the board's headers. Is there anything I can do about it? 
2019-08-11T09:43:58 < jly> does the schematic give any indication ?
2019-08-11T09:46:30 < jly> pa4 is not connected
2019-08-11T09:46:49 < benishor> it seems it si routed to DCMI _HSYNC
2019-08-11T09:47:51 < benishor> I now need a camera connector like tht
2019-08-11T09:49:42 < jly> depends maybe you can pull a pin
2019-08-11T09:50:02 < jly> if they're the only pins that can drive ze dac outs
2019-08-11T09:50:25 < jly> I hate doing it but I'm encountering this more than less
2019-08-11T09:50:59 < jly> needed to do this for pulling some I2S stuff on a DSP board...….
2019-08-11T09:51:19 < benishor> i hate it too
2019-08-11T09:51:30 < jly> the devboard with the pinouts was $900aud instead of $200aud..... … .
2019-08-11T09:54:57 < Rajko> custom bespoke devboards
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2019-08-11T10:29:44 < jly> Modding PS2s is a transferable skill
2019-08-11T10:57:58 < Thorn> how to fanout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njF5xK2KnZw
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2019-08-11T17:22:41 < qyx> Chip Select. The chip is selected when CS=”H”
2019-08-11T17:22:44 < qyx> interesting
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2019-08-11T17:43:03 < Laurenceb> https://eu.endchan.org/.media/faccbb56769a6ac65b0852359721297e-imagejpeg.jpg
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2019-08-11T18:13:38 < englishman> old as shit Laurenceb
2019-08-11T18:13:47 < englishman> also
2019-08-11T18:13:54 < englishman> chan
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2019-08-11T18:28:10 < antto> Loirens
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2019-08-11T19:47:03 < Laurenceb> the virgin shooter, the shot dead chad
2019-08-11T19:51:05 < Laurenceb> muh lunix
2019-08-11T19:51:06 < Laurenceb> https://it.slashdot.org/story/19/08/10/2257259/remember-autoruninf-malware-in-windows-turns-out-kde-offers-something-similar
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2019-08-11T19:57:18 < Thorn> are used xeon e5 from china a good idea
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2019-08-11T20:06:05 < kakimir> question is
2019-08-11T20:06:10 < kakimir> what you need xeon for?
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2019-08-11T20:15:42 < Thorn> rendering
2019-08-11T20:15:49 < Thorn> and 128GB DDR3 too
2019-08-11T20:18:19 < Mangy_Dog> depends
2019-08-11T20:18:51 < Mangy_Dog> how it compares to a modern day chip in both performance and power consumption
2019-08-11T20:29:32 < Thorn> power consumption is not a factor but cost of the hardware is
2019-08-11T20:34:48 < Mangy_Dog> well it should
2019-08-11T20:35:32 < Mangy_Dog> dont compare a used xeon from 5 or so years ago to a modern day one, compare it to a ryzen or intel chip from the last 2
2019-08-11T20:35:54 < Mangy_Dog> power consumption should be a faqctor if you want to do render farming
2019-08-11T20:37:04 < Mangy_Dog> if your xeon has a simular performance to a gen 2 ryzen or threaripper but at double the pwoer use then that really is going to cost you a lost more in the long run
2019-08-11T20:38:23 < Mangy_Dog> also buying used chips can also cause stability issues
2019-08-11T20:40:50 < Mangy_Dog> im not saying its a bad idea it might be good but you got to do research and compare it
2019-08-11T20:41:00 < Mangy_Dog> also do you have any come back if they send you a dead chip?
2019-08-11T20:41:41 < Steffanx> Not if electricity is "free"
2019-08-11T20:41:56 < Steffanx>  Is electricity "free" in Russia?
2019-08-11T20:41:59 < Mangy_Dog> but its not
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2019-08-11T20:53:28 < Thorn> *dual xeon btw
2019-08-11T20:53:58 < kakimir> for some student appartments electricity is free
2019-08-11T20:54:10 < kakimir> or as in included in rent
2019-08-11T20:54:16 < Thorn> and the software seems to be unstable on buttrippers according to users on the net btw
2019-08-11T20:55:59 < Mangy_Dog> what software?
2019-08-11T20:56:16 < kakimir> povray?
2019-08-11T20:56:24 < Mangy_Dog> wait wtf?
2019-08-11T20:56:37 < Mangy_Dog> you want to do rendering with xeons and youre aiming for povray?
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2019-08-11T20:57:16 < kakimir> he didn't say that
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2019-08-11T20:57:22 < kakimir> I said that
2019-08-11T20:57:38 < Mangy_Dog> why not a high end production level rendering engine? LIKE VRAY? RENDERMAN? ARNOLD? or whatever blender uses now
2019-08-11T20:57:44 < Mangy_Dog> oh sorry
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2019-08-11T21:08:06 < Thorn> e5-2689 x 2 = $110, 128 GB ecc ddr3 = $230, mobo dunno yet
2019-08-11T21:11:02 < Cracki> v1? v4?
2019-08-11T21:11:42 < Mangy_Dog> google says it needs ddr4
2019-08-11T21:13:22 < Thorn> v1 of course
2019-08-11T21:13:36 < Thorn> where do I get v4 for $55
2019-08-11T21:13:45 < Thorn> v1 needs ddr3
2019-08-11T21:15:41 < Mangy_Dog> whats v1 specs?
2019-08-11T21:15:55 < Mangy_Dog> caqnt seem to find anything other than v4
2019-08-11T21:16:09 < Thorn> mobo https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33012164456.html
2019-08-11T21:16:50 < Thorn> http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon%20E5-2689.html
2019-08-11T21:17:38 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2019-08-11T21:17:49 < Mangy_Dog> :/ not very impressive:/
2019-08-11T21:32:36 < Thorn> they also have E5-2690 for 2x the prce
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--- Day changed Mon Aug 12 2019
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2019-08-12T01:04:15 < rajkosto> hey need SOIC8 or similar size dc2dc buck that can take 12V input and output 1-12V 
2019-08-12T01:04:25 < rajkosto> at 2ish amps
2019-08-12T01:08:26 < salcedo> oh yea?
2019-08-12T01:10:02 < salcedo> that's how you feel? :P
2019-08-12T01:43:56 < rajkosto> oh and the output voltage needs to be controllable via i2c or something
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2019-08-12T03:08:20 < aandrew> hm, this stm32 seems to get a "received frame" interrupt every other packet (more or less)
2019-08-12T03:08:52 < aandrew> I've metered out the irq -> callback -> rx path and when pinging the stm32 everything is fine about 50% of hte time
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2019-08-12T05:29:49 < aandrew> any of you used RMII with STM32?
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2019-08-12T05:52:22 < aandrew> hm, interesting. I thought osSemaphoreWait would need to release the semaphore but it seems to be automatic
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2019-08-12T13:58:49 < karlp> hrmn, recursive cte isn't recursing "right"
2019-08-12T14:06:03 < tctw> cte?
2019-08-12T14:11:06 < karlp> common table expressions.
2019-08-12T14:11:23  * karlp is curious whether some of his earlier data exports have actually included all the data expected.....
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2019-08-12T15:52:21 < Getty> you probably drive him more crazy if you replace his coffee with decaffeinated ;-)
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2019-08-12T19:27:23 < aandrew> huh
2019-08-12T19:27:28 < aandrew> so I'm a bit of an idiot
2019-08-12T19:28:08 < aandrew> STM32F7/H7 has DCache and DMA is not coherent so you have to be careful when DMAing around to properly align the buffers and invalidate/flush the lines as needed
2019-08-12T19:28:32 < aandrew> but I just realized that I can just adjust the linker script a little bit and put the ethernet descriptors/buffers in DTCM and not have to worry about that shit at all
2019-08-12T19:28:45 < aandrew> DTCM is not cacheable and it's single-cycle
2019-08-12T19:28:50 < aandrew> one less thing to worry about
2019-08-12T19:29:13 < jpa-> DTCM is probably not the best place because DMA access there slows down the CPU i think, but you can make any area non-cacheable with MPU attributes
2019-08-12T19:29:33 < jpa-> and yeah, putting dma buffers in non-cacheable memory is probably what i'd do in most cases
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2019-08-12T19:35:13 < aandrew> yes I know I can point it off anywhere, but this was fast :-)
2019-08-12T19:35:56 < aandrew> interesting note about DMA interfering with CPU access to DTCM
2019-08-12T19:36:50 < aandrew> still no fucking idea why 50% of my packets sent to STM32 RMII are not causing "frame received" interrupts
2019-08-12T19:37:08 < aandrew> I'm *suspecting* timing closure on the FPGA side but I think I have that figured out
2019-08-12T19:37:43 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/ZlDpTHA is that adventure
2019-08-12T19:44:36 < emeb> H7 DTCM isn't directly accessible by normal DMA
2019-08-12T19:44:39 < emeb> You can indirectly access it with the MDMA, but setting that up is a huge hassle
2019-08-12T19:44:53 < emeb> So I just use invalidate/clean for my DMA stuff on H7.
2019-08-12T19:45:13 < aandrew> emeb: this isn't H7, it's F7
2019-08-12T19:45:47 < emeb> aandrew: I understand, but you mentioned H7 above.
2019-08-12T19:45:49 < aandrew> but yes, most H7 ethernet implementations I see lock the descriptors and buffers in RAM and then use MPU to disable cache on the area
2019-08-12T19:47:18 < emeb> on H7 I did some experiments with the MPU to disable the cache on one of the memories and then located my DMA buffers in that region. 
2019-08-12T19:48:06 < emeb> I was then able to avoid the cache clean/invalidate ops, but the lack of cache in those regions actually slowed the access down so much that there were no meaningful performance gains.
2019-08-12T19:52:13 < aandrew> emeb: right, the main SRAM banks aren't single cycle and I *think* disabling cache also disables burst access?
2019-08-12T19:52:53 < emeb> aandrew: yeah - that's my understanding too.
2019-08-12T19:53:37 < emeb> H7 has all kinds of crazy side effects from the CPU running so much faster than the rest of the system.
2019-08-12T19:54:43 < emeb> for example - when handling IRQs I've found that it's important to clear the IRQ at the beginning of the ISR in order to give the requester time to respond.
2019-08-12T19:55:36 < emeb> If I clear it right at the end of the ISR then as soon as the routine exits the ISR is still active and the IRQ is invoked again.
2019-08-12T19:57:04 < emeb> err... the IRQ is still active and the ISR is invoked again. derp
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2019-08-12T20:11:57 < aandrew> emeb: interesting. I usually clear the flag at the start of the ISR but not for any specific reason
2019-08-12T20:12:00 < aandrew> just convention I guess
2019-08-12T20:13:03 < emeb> aandrew: normally I do too, but in a few cases I didn't and it made a difference. 
2019-08-12T20:14:27 < emeb> for diagnostics I toggle a GPIO on/off during the ISR and I was seeing a runt pulse at the tail end of the ISR - runt because once it started it checked the status of the periph and saw nothing pending so it just bailed.
2019-08-12T20:15:53 < aandrew> *nods*
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2019-08-12T20:28:21 < karlp> fixed my recursion
2019-08-12T20:28:40 < karlp> was filtering out invalid results too early.  hooray
2019-08-12T20:32:31 < emeb> premature optimization strikes again
2019-08-12T20:33:39 < karlp> nah, just not really understanding the impact of what I'd done, and it worked for the first setup, which had different trees of recursion
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2019-08-12T21:04:31 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/L9KgweD.png
2019-08-12T21:10:28 < Mangy_Dog> nice
2019-08-12T21:10:45 < Mangy_Dog> ive just discovered a horrible mistake on my rev2 board and now going to have to order a new set of pcbs :/
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2019-08-12T21:12:48 < aandrew> hm ok
2019-08-12T21:13:21 < aandrew> so pinging the stm32. I have ~50% packet loss (not exactly every other packet but close. sometimes I get 2 responses in a row, sometimes like 5 in a row, but also sometimes none for 2-3)
2019-08-12T21:13:44 < aandrew> I have a set of counters. irq, rx completion callback, icmp, etc.
2019-08-12T21:14:17 < bitmask> lets hope i don't find an error on these, they are simple enough that I shouldn't
2019-08-12T21:14:31 < aandrew> I recently turned on the abnormal interrupts and the callback for those, and hav ea set of counters for receiver overrun, receiver buffer unavailable etc etc
2019-08-12T21:14:46 < aandrew> those *never* get called (which is good, but still wtf am I not seeing packets for?!)
2019-08-12T21:15:32 < aandrew> now I *do* get a LOT of HAL_ERROR when I call HAL_ETH_GetReceivedFrame_IT()
2019-08-12T21:15:58 < aandrew> but from what I can gather that means that it walked the rx descriptor list and had no packet for me in them
2019-08-12T21:16:51 < aandrew> since HAL_ETH_GetReceivedFrame_IT() is called only when the semaphore is released (which is only done in the "hey I got an ethernet frame" IRQ handler callback
2019-08-12T21:17:08 < aandrew> so I should never be getting HAL_ERROR back from HAL_ETH_GetReceivedFame_IT in that case
2019-08-12T21:17:31 < aandrew> it's like a spurious interrupt
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2019-08-12T21:48:26 < superbia> howdy Steffanx 
2019-08-12T21:52:33 < Steffanx> hello, how was the lamb 
2019-08-12T21:52:46 < superbia> greetings from the wrong side of the alps
2019-08-12T21:55:55 < superbia> Steffanx: 
2019-08-12T21:57:53 < Steffanx> hello.
2019-08-12T21:57:58 < Steffanx> whats the wrong side
2019-08-12T21:58:17 < superbia> south
2019-08-12T21:58:30 < superbia> one faschists country is on the south
2019-08-12T22:00:16 < Steffanx> dont forget to say hi to BrainDamage
2019-08-12T22:00:57 < superbia> just stopping by here 2 days tops
2019-08-12T22:01:10 < superbia> just arived at room, so tireec
2019-08-12T22:01:17 < BrainDamage> the scary thing is that he's really likely to be close
2019-08-12T22:01:46 < BrainDamage> which city?
2019-08-12T22:01:50 < superbia> I was planing to get to Sartorias in the south, but it's too bloody hot
2019-08-12T22:04:55 < superbia> some corso dela republiqa
2019-08-12T22:07:47 < superbia> BrainDamage: you are Milan?
2019-08-12T22:07:56 -!- jadew [~rcc@unaffiliated/jadew] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2019-08-12T22:08:10 < BrainDamage> close to it
2019-08-12T22:08:13 < superbia> if so, I could hop by
2019-08-12T22:08:19 < BrainDamage> I am in como
2019-08-12T22:08:20 < superbia> when I'm returning home
2019-08-12T22:08:50 < BrainDamage> milan is a ~40 min trip for me
2019-08-12T22:08:55 < superbia> so many motobikes
2019-08-12T22:09:15 < superbia> i reckon it would be nice to just buy a motobike and travel countries around the alps
2019-08-12T22:09:39 < superbia> in like September/October
2019-08-12T22:09:41 < BrainDamage> yeah, the passes are pretty nice when they are not crowded
2019-08-12T22:09:52 < superbia> in like Fall
2019-08-12T22:09:59 < superbia> when you can still swim in the sea
2019-08-12T22:10:27 < BrainDamage> october is highly variable on the weather, don't bet on being able to swim
2019-08-12T22:10:38 < superbia> in greece, you can swim in november
2019-08-12T22:10:42 < superbia> it's that hot
2019-08-12T22:10:51 < superbia> I am not sure about countries like italy or croatia
2019-08-12T22:11:22 < BrainDamage> if you go to the south, it's possible
2019-08-12T22:11:43 < superbia> too many negros/gypsies in the italian south
2019-08-12T22:11:46 < superbia> i am scared to go there
2019-08-12T22:11:51 < BrainDamage> italy is 1000km long vertically, climate is not uniform at all
2019-08-12T22:12:52 < BrainDamage> most gypsies actually settle in the north
2019-08-12T22:13:02 < BrainDamage> so many romanian camps near milan
2019-08-12T22:13:16 < BrainDamage> it's actually a social plague because they tend to be incredibly filthy
2019-08-12T22:13:21 < superbia> I just thought there is alot of sun, and Italians are naturally gypsie looking
2019-08-12T22:13:32 < superbia> South Alps -- Gypies
2019-08-12T22:13:37 < superbia> North Alps -- Whites
2019-08-12T22:14:01 < BrainDamage> you're integrating well in switzerland, you're picking up the racism just fine
2019-08-12T22:14:51 < superbia> my ancestors were roman
2019-08-12T22:15:56 < superbia> also, why is the east part of adriatic not Italian
2019-08-12T22:16:08 < superbia> it was in history, was it not
2019-08-12T22:17:34 < BrainDamage> WWI politics
2019-08-12T22:17:50 < BrainDamage> took some land, let another go
2019-08-12T22:18:29 < BrainDamage> that land dispute that was let go was part of the focus points that fascist used to inflame people
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2019-08-12T22:19:44 < superbia> fascist were not that good at war
2019-08-12T22:20:06 < superbia> I've heared some greek stories
2019-08-12T22:20:11 < BrainDamage> they were outright terrible
2019-08-12T22:20:44 < BrainDamage> I consider that a boon, not a con, imagine if they were competent instead
2019-08-12T22:22:19 < superbia> we'd have a nazi europe
2019-08-12T22:22:25 < superbia> and a new roman empire
2019-08-12T22:24:22 < superbia> BrainDamage: but there would still be Switzerland, independant, and in the middle
2019-08-12T22:25:39 < BrainDamage> I feel like part of the reason switzerland was allowed independence was simply because it was everyone's interest to leave their money safe during the war
2019-08-12T22:26:01 < BrainDamage> I am not sure if it would've remained so in an europe dominated by fascists and nazists
2019-08-12T22:26:14 < superbia> you mean the money they laundered 
2019-08-12T22:26:23 < BrainDamage> yes
2019-08-12T22:26:35 < superbia> if they used the money for war, they would've won
2019-08-12T22:27:07 < BrainDamage> money does not win a war when you have millions of people to throw against you
2019-08-12T22:27:33 < BrainDamage> you cannot melt your gold and make tanks out of that
2019-08-12T22:28:17 < BrainDamage> most of switzerland's economy is in stored value and transactions
2019-08-12T22:28:40 < BrainDamage> while in wartime the economy is measured in prime materials and productive capacity ... and disposable bodies
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2019-08-12T22:29:40 < superbia> and nukes
2019-08-12T22:32:51 -!- mirage335 [~mirage335@204.141.172.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2019-08-12T22:33:37 < Steffanx> so superbia is on a europe trip? When will you be in dutchland again?
2019-08-12T22:33:46 < Steffanx> Not Amsterdam, that's fake dutchland
2019-08-12T22:33:52 < Steffanx> Amsterdam only exists for tourists.
2019-08-12T22:33:58 < superbia> soon TM R
2019-08-12T22:34:01 < superbia> (TM)
2019-08-12T22:35:44 < Steffanx> i see
2019-08-12T22:37:14 < effractur> true
2019-08-12T22:37:25 < effractur> amsterdam is an amusement park for tourist
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2019-08-12T22:51:48 < superbia> I have some friends in BL
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2019-08-12T22:52:14 < kakimir> amsterdam is a pile of bicycles
2019-08-12T22:52:24 < kakimir> big piles
2019-08-12T22:52:48 < BrainDamage> that doesn't sound too bad
2019-08-12T22:52:54 < BrainDamage> better than pile of cars
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2019-08-12T22:59:06 < aandrew> ok, so the ethernet DMA status seems to be working right -- if I pause the program in Ozone for a bit then result BOCR has incremented the missed frames (because the four DMA rx descriptors have become full and there's nowhere to put the frames
2019-08-12T22:59:18 < aandrew> so it's indicating that the STM32 is just not seeing the frames come in that it's missing
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2019-08-12T23:05:34 < superbia> kakimir: was that you https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/12/world/europe/russia-nuclear-accident-putin.html
2019-08-12T23:07:00 < Cracki> uhhh when the nyt points at russia, be skeptical
2019-08-12T23:08:11 < kakimir> when you cannot put weapons in space
2019-08-12T23:08:21 < salcedo> much easier to put weapons in dust
2019-08-12T23:08:59 < kakimir> use upper athmosphere with nuclear propulsion
2019-08-12T23:10:05 < superbia> one day, when I will afford to buy propper paper edition of nyt's
2019-08-12T23:10:08 < superbia> daily
2019-08-12T23:10:20 < Cracki> to line the bird cage
2019-08-12T23:10:50 < superbia> to put on my desk, whilst opening a bottle and smoking a cuban ciguar
2019-08-12T23:11:01 < superbia> it's for the atmosphere
2019-08-12T23:11:13 < superbia> and later to help start a fire in the fireplace
2019-08-12T23:11:38 < kakimir> better check wind direction
2019-08-12T23:12:09 < superbia> kakimir: https://www.windy.com --> right --> wind
2019-08-12T23:12:35 < superbia> raise bar to higher altitude, to check altitude wind
2019-08-12T23:12:52 < kakimir> when did the thing happen?
2019-08-12T23:12:59 < Cracki> maybe the little bit of radiation causes russian mutant pet lynxes
2019-08-12T23:13:49 < superbia> maybe russian bears get normal from the radiation
2019-08-12T23:20:43 < Cracki> not a fan of russian bears
2019-08-12T23:21:47 < Steffanx> Any city is a pile of bicycles in dutchland, kakimir 
2019-08-12T23:21:56 < kakimir> also in china
2019-08-12T23:22:26 < superbia> so what about z explosion Steffanx 
2019-08-12T23:22:32 < superbia> you monitor the frequencies
2019-08-12T23:24:41 < Steffanx> Z explosion. What did I miss
2019-08-12T23:25:18 < kakimir> some zombie shit?
2019-08-12T23:26:01 < superbia> le nyt article
2019-08-12T23:26:20 < kakimir> url
2019-08-12T23:26:28 < superbia> 220534
2019-08-12T23:33:09 < Steffanx> Oh zhe russians
2019-08-12T23:36:07 < Steffanx> I cannot read the article it wants me to login
2019-08-12T23:36:51 < kakimir> I read nyt once
2019-08-12T23:37:05 < kakimir> real paper one
2019-08-12T23:37:12 < superbia> the paper quality is amazing kakimir 
2019-08-12T23:37:14 < kakimir> it was in china in 5star hotel
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2019-08-12T23:38:28 < Cracki> amazing paper https://www.maxim.com/.image/t_share/MTM5Mjg3MTg3OTU4MDE1MzI3/american-psycho-business-card-scene-promojpg.jpg
2019-08-12T23:42:34 < Cracki> one of the movies you must have watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cISYzA36-ZY
2019-08-12T23:44:42 < kakimir> who hasn't
2019-08-12T23:45:28 < salcedo> me ofc
2019-08-12T23:45:40 < salcedo> since i don't have bandwidth for video streaming lol
2019-08-12T23:46:14 < kakimir> is anti piracy enforced in your country?
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2019-08-12T23:46:51 < salcedo> no idea
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2019-08-12T23:47:06 < salcedo> people don't pirate shit anymore here
2019-08-12T23:47:06 < BrainDamage> you don't have to stream live
2019-08-12T23:47:18 < BrainDamage> download during off-times, then watch
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2019-08-12T23:47:28 < BrainDamage> eg schedule to download during your sleeping times
2019-08-12T23:47:47 < salcedo> they just pay $15 to netflix, $10 for youtube red, $10 for hulu, $10 for slingtv, $120 for amazon prime, $10 for ...
2019-08-12T23:47:55 < salcedo> and watch all the propaganda
2019-08-12T23:48:02 < kakimir> 120 for internet?
2019-08-12T23:48:10 < BrainDamage> fortunately amazon prime costs 20 bucks here
2019-08-12T23:48:11 < salcedo> $120 for internet is cheap
2019-08-12T23:48:24 < BrainDamage> and internet 15
2019-08-12T23:48:33 < kakimir> my internets is like 24eur
2019-08-12T23:48:42 < salcedo> when it's all said and done, the average NPC pays over $500/mo to get their heads filled with garbage.
2019-08-12T23:48:54 < kakimir> NPC?
2019-08-12T23:50:44 < Cracki> don't ask
2019-08-12T23:51:38 < kakimir> salcedo: that is more than they pay for their medical insurance?
2019-08-12T23:52:03 < salcedo> typically not.
2019-08-12T23:52:15 < kakimir> how much medical insurance?
2019-08-12T23:53:10 < salcedo> depends.
2019-08-12T23:56:15 < specing> My internet is 10 eur
2019-08-12T23:56:30 < specing> +1.2 for server :)
2019-08-12T23:56:38 < specing> beat this^ :D
2019-08-12T23:56:46 < kakimir> cannot
2019-08-12T23:57:09 < kakimir> lowest I got was 15,90eur
2019-08-12T23:57:40 < kakimir> I just stand in crossfire of operators
2019-08-12T23:59:20 < salcedo> specing: what speed for 10 eur?
--- Day changed Tue Aug 13 2019
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2019-08-13T00:02:23 < kakimir> 256kbps
2019-08-13T00:02:52 < superbia> the fuck
2019-08-13T00:03:00 < salcedo> lol i thought you were going to say 100Mbit/sec
2019-08-13T00:03:17 < salcedo> i'm on 128kbps for $10/mo here
2019-08-13T00:03:38 < superbia> I'm on, I don't even know here
2019-08-13T00:03:57 < specing> salcedo: 20/5 mbit
2019-08-13T00:04:03 < BrainDamage> I pay 15 bucks for 1Mbit/s, I could upgrade to 350Mbit/s for 35bucks, if I were in milan the same price would give me 1Gbit
2019-08-13T00:04:15 < salcedo> yea europe internet is way cheap.
2019-08-13T00:05:19 < salcedo> here people pay $150-200 on average, then another $80-150 for mobile
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2019-08-13T00:06:34 < BrainDamage> sorry, 22Mbit/s I'm drunk
2019-08-13T00:06:40 < BrainDamage> the 15 bucks
2019-08-13T00:06:43 < salcedo> lol yea
2019-08-13T00:07:06 < salcedo> and you can choose a different provider?
2019-08-13T00:07:57 < BrainDamage> yes, nearly all providers have a min deal for 12-24 months that force you to pay a penalty if you quit earlier, otherwise, no ties
2019-08-13T00:08:27 < salcedo> that's surprising.
2019-08-13T00:08:59 < salcedo> here is just anti-competitive monopolies of 2-3 companies that provide access to all network and the content too.
2019-08-13T00:09:09 < kakimir> 128kbps the fuck
2019-08-13T00:09:22 < salcedo> you either buy internet at the prices they set, or you don't have internet. there's no competitor to go to.
2019-08-13T00:09:50 < salcedo> they have propped up an illusion of competition amongst themselves but in reality it's all the same plans/rates no matter who you choose - if you're lucky enough to have a choice.
2019-08-13T00:10:28 < BrainDamage> historically here landlines were state-owned, after the early 90s they chose to privatize them in a specific way, anyone is allowed to own landlines but they have forced relative prices for reselling the service to competitors
2019-08-13T00:10:49 < BrainDamage> as result you have physical network operators, or even virtual network operators that own no physical devices and just rent the lines
2019-08-13T00:11:06 < BrainDamage> but still can offer competitive prices due to different business models
2019-08-13T00:12:02 < salcedo> same here
2019-08-13T00:12:31 < salcedo> i think we will eventually see the state nationalizing the internet infrastructure here, but not before the telecom and media giants completely own the gov :)
2019-08-13T00:12:38 < salcedo> they nearly already do
2019-08-13T00:13:11 < salcedo> then they'll just tax it out of you, whether you want it or not.
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2019-08-13T00:23:38 < bitmask> I gotta clean it up but... https://i.imgur.com/eOGYuxu.png
2019-08-13T00:23:48 < bitmask> first time using paste, first time soldering 0402, I ended up using a soldering iron for most of it, using a heat gun (not hot air rework station) wasn't the best idea. and the toaster oven had people around that wouldn't like chemicals used in something that makes food :P
2019-08-13T00:24:19 < kakimir> salcedo: you can always dream
2019-08-13T00:26:49 < BrainDamage> bitmask: re: toaster oven, it's a pretty solid idea to keep it separated, flux boiling can leave metal spatters around
2019-08-13T00:27:02 < bitmask> true 
2019-08-13T00:27:18 < bitmask> well it looks halfway decent hand soldered so i think I'm ok with it
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2019-08-13T00:28:00 < BrainDamage> the heat gun is probably a bit fast, otherwise you'd have better centering from the surface tension
2019-08-13T00:28:13 < BrainDamage> fast as in airflow speed
2019-08-13T00:28:22 < bitmask> yea it was blowing the ws2813's around
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2019-08-13T00:28:47 < bitmask> the caps/res' were fine though
2019-08-13T00:28:55 < bitmask> shoulda just did those first
2019-08-13T00:29:02 < specing> salcedo: thats a landline?
2019-08-13T00:29:13 < specing> salcedo: my home internet is mobile
2019-08-13T00:29:19 < salcedo> specing: mobile
2019-08-13T00:29:38 < specing> I see, fixed internet is too expensive for what you get
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2019-08-13T00:30:21 < salcedo> mobile internet is configured here in such a way that if you _need_ constant internet, you must get fixed cable
2019-08-13T00:30:47 < salcedo> unless you're insane like me and are using 128kbit/sec "IoT" plan for regular internet.
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2019-08-13T00:31:18 < salcedo> as long as ssh, email, and some browsing works. i'm happy.
2019-08-13T00:32:10 < specing> :)
2019-08-13T00:32:11 < salcedo> if i need to download something, i just pretend it's 1995 and run while :; do wget url; done before bed
2019-08-13T00:33:06 < kakimir> well the deal is quite sweet
2019-08-13T00:33:21 < kakimir> if you save like 100bucks a month
2019-08-13T00:33:27 < specing> salcedo:where are you from?
2019-08-13T00:33:45 < salcedo> i have noticed that this carrier is intentionally prioritizing all of ookla's speed test servers to give the illusion that i have what is advertised
2019-08-13T00:34:03 < salcedo> if i do a speed test, i always get at least 1mbit/sec :)
2019-08-13T00:34:18 < specing> salcedo: you can do an iptraf speed test
2019-08-13T00:34:33 < Ultrasauce> the oven thing goes both ways, you dont want food residue on your boards either
2019-08-13T00:35:03 < salcedo> Ultrasauce: but what about all the minerals in my food?
2019-08-13T00:35:19 < salcedo> i'm saving money on vitamins
2019-08-13T00:35:50 < Ultrasauce> unfortunately cheese is not a great flux
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2019-08-13T01:39:48 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/7OgXnoO.png
2019-08-13T01:39:50 < bitmask> success
2019-08-13T02:04:06 < Mangy_Dog> ws2812?
2019-08-13T02:04:08 < Mangy_Dog> or rgb?
2019-08-13T02:07:06 < Mangy_Dog> im guessing its neopixel as i just saw the 3 pins in and out
2019-08-13T02:09:50 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2019-08-13T02:09:55 < Mangy_Dog> stm32duino.com is down?
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2019-08-13T02:24:02 < salcedo> stm32duino been gone
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2019-08-13T03:19:34 < Cracki> has anyone touched segger's "embedded studio"? yay or nay?
2019-08-13T03:20:14 < Cracki> I'm looking at nrf52something, it's a CM4, nordic says this is one of the recommended options to program it
2019-08-13T03:22:13 < Cracki> their dev kit has a jlink OB on it and it is just a CM4, so of course this can be done with gcc on a shell with manual register pokes... but I don't mind following the manufacturer's guide
2019-08-13T03:23:10 < Thorn> if you want to do BLE on nrf you're basically stuck with their SDK
2019-08-13T03:23:38 < Thorn> which can be used with a makefile (they even supply them)
2019-08-13T03:23:50 < Cracki> actually I'm just looking for a simple way to get wireless communication between desktop/laptop and robotic thingy, uart at least
2019-08-13T03:24:03 < Cracki> but I figure why not pick something that's not a deadend
2019-08-13T03:24:24 < Cracki> afaics those things might be simple to run as a simple bt-uart bridge
2019-08-13T03:26:09 < Cracki> their dk for 51822 has an uart example so I guess I don't have to do anything besides grabbing their software, hooking the hw up, and flashing it
2019-08-13T03:59:01 < Cracki> ah! "hm-10" is some TI CC254x, and does bt 4.0. I guess I'll want that for now.
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2019-08-13T04:32:59 < aandrew> Cracki: I do a lot of work iwth nrf52 and nrf51
2019-08-13T04:33:03 < aandrew> never used embedded studio
2019-08-13T04:33:07 < aandrew> just use makefiles like anything else
2019-08-13T04:33:11 < Cracki> ic ic
2019-08-13T04:33:29 < Cracki> they have something like "soft apps", appears to be binary blobs that do things
2019-08-13T04:33:35 < aandrew> yes
2019-08-13T04:33:48 < Cracki> you basically tell that to the linker?
2019-08-13T04:33:51 < aandrew> essentially just a library loaded into flash that you can make calls in to
2019-08-13T04:34:03 < Cracki> ah, just a library
2019-08-13T04:34:04 < aandrew> yes more or less
2019-08-13T04:34:17 < aandrew> for example, their BLE library you do not get the source to
2019-08-13T04:34:23 < aandrew> you get the APIs and the softdevice 
2019-08-13T04:34:42 < Cracki> is that position independent code or do they need it at a fixed location?
2019-08-13T04:34:58 < aandrew> fixed location
2019-08-13T04:35:26 < aandrew> you don't link it per se
2019-08-13T04:35:33 < Cracki> is that stuff just instructions the CM4 runs or is that some kind of bitstream their own silicon interprets? not that it matters but I'm curious :P
2019-08-13T04:35:38 < aandrew> your program just calls into it
2019-08-13T04:35:45 < aandrew> it's code
2019-08-13T04:36:07 < aandrew> just normal everyday arm thumb code
2019-08-13T04:37:05 < Cracki> nice. no "rom apis" involved? :P I heard of that on some tiny CM0(?) that everyone hates
2019-08-13T04:37:51 < aandrew> not that I'm aware of
2019-08-13T04:39:21 < Cracki> hahaha this cc2540 module's firmware grew "pwm"... 1 second period, with DC settable in 0.1s steps
2019-08-13T04:39:32 < Cracki> and you set it with AT+... commands
2019-08-13T04:39:44 < aandrew> that sounds... useless
2019-08-13T04:39:50 < Cracki> tardweeno grade
2019-08-13T04:40:01 < Cracki> good enough to link a led or whatever
2019-08-13T04:41:10 < Cracki> at least the ble-uart seems usable. I'll see when I need to graduate from that to SPI or something, and actually do my own fw for cc254x or nrf
2019-08-13T04:44:12 < Cracki> I'm curious again; a former workplace used nrf for some custom protocol that seems to have operated with time division to collect per-second data from 500 nodes.
2019-08-13T04:44:31 < Cracki> how much does nordic help one with doing that?
2019-08-13T04:50:20 < Cracki> I think they used something other than 2.4 ghz...
2019-08-13T04:54:11 < Cracki> Gazell, Shockburst, hmmm
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2019-08-13T05:04:38 < aandrew> yes
2019-08-13T05:04:49 < aandrew> gazell is frequency hopping shockburst
2019-08-13T05:04:52 < aandrew> it's kind of shitty but it works
2019-08-13T05:08:12 < aandrew> you'll never get 500 nodes working at any real throughput with gazell
2019-08-13T05:08:40 < Cracki> they definitely had some kind of "trade secret" that was probably time division, maybe frequency division
2019-08-13T05:08:52 < aandrew> gazell is frequency division
2019-08-13T05:09:11 < Cracki> that explains why they support only 8 slaves
2019-08-13T05:09:12 < aandrew> I wrote a custom protocol that does time division and can hit damn near line rate
2019-08-13T05:09:34 < aandrew> I'm in the midst of making it do better frequency hopping
2019-08-13T05:09:52 < Cracki> why do you need it to hop freqs? interference?
2019-08-13T05:09:56 < aandrew> yep
2019-08-13T05:10:25 < Cracki> hm, these guys back then worked in industrial settings so if something didn't work they could always go like "make a faraday cage"
2019-08-13T05:10:44 < Cracki> ok, special even for industrial setting
2019-08-13T05:11:01 < Cracki> so... basically you have to reinvent GSM? *g*
2019-08-13T05:11:05 < aandrew> basically I set up a tdma network that can shift to a different frequency at the end of a frame
2019-08-13T05:11:24 < aandrew> that keeps the data rate up, which is what gazell can't do
2019-08-13T05:11:32 < aandrew> yep pretty much :-)
2019-08-13T05:12:22 < Cracki> i love convergent evolution
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2019-08-13T05:58:02 < emeb_mac> anyone tried the new G4xx parts?
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2019-08-13T09:40:41 < jadew> pfew... 12 hours with no electricity
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2019-08-13T10:09:16 < Steffanx> Lol what did you do jadew  
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2019-08-13T10:32:15 < Thorn> he turned on his arduino
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2019-08-13T10:37:39 < jadew> hah
2019-08-13T10:37:46 < jadew> nah, I didn't do anything
2019-08-13T10:38:04 < jadew> was a very strange outage
2019-08-13T10:38:09 < jadew> only part of our building
2019-08-13T10:38:17 < jadew> part of another one
2019-08-13T10:38:21 < Steffanx> Was it Putin and his nuke test?
2019-08-13T10:38:23 < jadew> and part of the street lights
2019-08-13T10:41:03 < jadew> how do you extract the color from a phyisical object so you can print something with the same color?
2019-08-13T10:46:53 < qyx> single phase failure?
2019-08-13T10:47:41 < qyx> some color analyzer, car lacquer guys have those maybe
2019-08-13T10:48:12 < jpa-> most paint shops here have, though the object should be quite flat and large enough (a few cm)
2019-08-13T10:49:07 < jpa-> but if you just match it with common pigments, it will only appear the same under daylight; low-cri lights can have spikes in spectrum that make different pigments appear different even if they average out to same under daylight
2019-08-13T10:50:08 < jadew> yeah, it doesn't have to be perfect, just close
2019-08-13T10:50:32 < jadew> but there's more to color than color (I just realized)
2019-08-13T10:50:37 < jadew> there's also luminance
2019-08-13T10:50:40 < jadew> how bright the color is
2019-08-13T10:51:00 < jadew> I have to match that too
2019-08-13T10:51:03 < jpa-> for passive objects, it's usually called reflectivity
2019-08-13T10:51:25 < jpa-> (i.e. not lights)
2019-08-13T10:52:21 < jadew> good to know
2019-08-13T10:59:09 < Thorn> albedo
2019-08-13T11:00:03 < jpa-> i think albedo is used only for slightly larger objects, such as planets
2019-08-13T11:07:50 < jadew> I think I found a way to do it, I printed it in black and white at various color intensities and compared with the object
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2019-08-13T12:28:17 < Thorn> which library do I use to obtain crypto primitives for stm32? such as aes, ecdh
2019-08-13T12:28:38 < zyp> pure software?
2019-08-13T12:28:47 < zyp> not accelerated?
2019-08-13T12:29:30 < Thorn> would be nice to use acceleration if available although my data volumes are small
2019-08-13T12:34:07 < karlp> mbedtls latest version comes in two portions now iirc, the tls, and the crypto primitives.
2019-08-13T12:39:09 < qyx> polarssl wolfssl not cool anymore?
2019-08-13T12:40:13 < qyx> also for alternative algos there is nacl/libsodium/tweetnacl
2019-08-13T12:40:18 < karlp> qyx: were they ever?
2019-08-13T12:40:27 < qyx> tle last is super small and only moderately slow
2019-08-13T12:41:24 < karlp> qyx: also, polar ssl is mbedtls.
2019-08-13T12:41:29 < karlp> cyassl is now wolfssl.
2019-08-13T12:42:48 < karlp> it was more C the language, YA (yet another) ssl iirc.
2019-08-13T12:45:58 < Mangy_Dog> Anyone here happen to have RickKimballs |DMA driven ws2912 library?
2019-08-13T12:47:57 < Thorn> there are 2 implementations in zypsnips ine of which is mine iirc
2019-08-13T12:48:03 < karlp> hrm, I hought we had a few of them in zypsnips, but I can't find them now.
2019-08-13T12:48:09 < karlp> oh duh
2019-08-13T12:48:14 < karlp> wh2812-*
2019-08-13T12:48:29 < karlp> Mangy_Dog:see the topic for zypsnips
2019-08-13T12:48:54 < jadew> mbecyssl
2019-08-13T12:49:15 < Mangy_Dog> 2812 281 :p yes
2019-08-13T12:49:31 < zyp> ws2812 is easy to roll yourself, seems kinda waste of time to maintain a third party dependency for that
2019-08-13T12:49:53 < Mangy_Dog> im not quite that smart :(
2019-08-13T12:50:14 < Mangy_Dog> to write one fresh myself
2019-08-13T12:50:17 < Mangy_Dog> well
2019-08-13T12:50:23 < Mangy_Dog> at least not with dma
2019-08-13T12:50:34 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/arcin/main.cpp?id=1cb55ca#n64 <- mine looks something like this
2019-08-13T12:50:36 < Mangy_Dog> delay driven sure
2019-08-13T12:50:48 < zyp> heh
2019-08-13T12:51:39 < zyp> I'd argue a timer based implementation is easier than a delay based one, and once you have a working timer setup, it's easy to feed it with DMA
2019-08-13T12:51:45 < Mangy_Dog> o.O
2019-08-13T12:51:52 < Mangy_Dog> that looks like a confusing library
2019-08-13T12:52:21 < Mangy_Dog> trouble is i still dont really understand how to manipulate timers nor how to use DMA :/
2019-08-13T12:52:48 < Mangy_Dog> im more a code monkey than a deeper hardware manipulator coding genious
2019-08-13T12:52:52 < Mangy_Dog> genius
2019-08-13T12:53:11 < zyp> maybe you should start learning how timers work then
2019-08-13T12:53:28 < Mangy_Dog> maybe a little too much than im prepaired to do right now
2019-08-13T12:55:28 < karlp> well, you can spend months copying and pasting and blindly experimenting then :)
2019-08-13T12:59:24 < karlp> I like your if (1) code zyp :)
2019-08-13T13:00:29 < zyp> it's prepared to hook in a dynamic config option
2019-08-13T13:01:38 < zyp> dynamic, as in runtime
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2019-08-13T14:16:55 < Laurenceb> DarWIN https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-49298720
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2019-08-13T14:26:01 < Cracki> >'I'm suing my parents for giving birth to me'
2019-08-13T14:26:30 < Cracki> yeah maybe give them their wish, don't let them have offspring
2019-08-13T14:34:54 < karlp> I'd be pretty pissed if I was 29 and they still wouldn't give me a vasectomy
2019-08-13T14:35:36 < qyx> karlp: oh
2019-08-13T14:35:49 < qyx> wasn't polarssl gpl or commercial?
2019-08-13T14:35:56 < qyx> did they change licensing too?
2019-08-13T14:36:01 < karlp> qyx, yeah, was dual.
2019-08-13T14:36:11 < karlp> now it's apache instead, much simpler :)
2019-08-13T14:36:20  * karlp loves the name of this company: http://www.scatts.co.uk/
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2019-08-13T14:38:47 < Mangy_Dog> well i got the ws2811s working through bitbanging
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2019-08-13T14:39:09 < Mangy_Dog> tbh given theres only 6 channels... 2 chips. Its not going to be blocking enough to be any issue
2019-08-13T14:39:28 < Mangy_Dog> as long as i can keep the 500hz report rate
2019-08-13T14:39:32 < Mangy_Dog> for the usb side of things
2019-08-13T14:43:48 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/531926386403967020/610800191045500931/VID_20190813_124059.mp4
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2019-08-13T15:05:37 < Laurenceb> >discord
2019-08-13T15:07:47  * salcedo wonders if the content-type is that of mp4 or if it's a route into a 1200+ long call stack of palantir javascript
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2019-08-13T15:22:00 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2019-08-13T15:22:14 < Mangy_Dog> just a video of the led indicators im runnign in my project
2019-08-13T15:22:33 < Mangy_Dog> i just dumped it in discord retrogameing channel and used the link to show on irc
2019-08-13T15:24:56 < Mangy_Dog> so no its not some 12000+ line java script trying to take over your computer and steal your credit card details :p
2019-08-13T15:25:16 -!- DisruptiveNL [~Disruptiv@62.140.137.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-08-13T15:29:27 < Laurenceb> Arduino developers conference:  https://i2-prod.derbytelegraph.co.uk/incoming/article3175687.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/1_GAR_TEM_050819_-ASHES_02jpeg.jpg
2019-08-13T15:34:22 < Laurenceb> u clicked to see ur family
2019-08-13T15:38:08 < salcedo> yeahhhhh baby
2019-08-13T15:38:20 < Steffanx> Could be a young laurenceb as well
2019-08-13T15:38:40 < Steffanx> Before he got a balloon tie
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2019-08-13T17:27:52 < bitmask> I need to start making more complex pcbs
2019-08-13T17:28:04 < bitmask> I'm too 1337 for this shit
2019-08-13T17:28:10 < karlp> you can manage complex 3d shitx, I'm sure you can manage it.
2019-08-13T17:28:32 < bitmask> :)
2019-08-13T17:28:48 < bitmask> you see the lit pcbs? https://i.imgur.com/7OgXnoO.png
2019-08-13T17:29:01 < bitmask> first try with solder paste and 0402
2019-08-13T17:29:35  * karlp cheers
2019-08-13T17:29:39 < bitmask> heh
2019-08-13T17:29:51 < bitmask> I need to get some clouds  laser cut now
2019-08-13T17:30:51 < benishor> what's that for?
2019-08-13T17:32:03 < bitmask> just a little project I'm working on, its an infinity mirror shaped like a cloud that tells the weather
2019-08-13T17:32:41 < bitmask> I know the 1 is very close to the other digits but hopefully it wont be over 100 degrees F very often
2019-08-13T17:33:05 < bitmask> I forget whey I did that :P
2019-08-13T17:33:07 < bitmask> why
2019-08-13T17:33:15 < bitmask> I think something to do with alignment
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2019-08-13T17:42:54 < qyx> infinity mirror is telling you the weather?
2019-08-13T17:46:18 < bitmask> yup
2019-08-13T17:46:21 < emeb> works here in the desert. always "Hot and Dry"
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2019-08-13T17:53:28 < Cracki> thanos wants your infinity mirror
2019-08-13T18:02:01 < aandrew> https://knrs.iheart.com/content/2019-08-12-clever-vanity-license-plate-backfires-on-man-winds-up-with-tons-of-tickets/
2019-08-13T18:03:58 < bitmask> hehe
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2019-08-13T18:54:55 < jadew> sounds like he was successful
2019-08-13T19:00:26 < Mangy_Dog> anyone happen to know if the ws2811 ic is a fixed constant current? or can it be set? because im looking at the engrish datasheet and its not exsactly clear
2019-08-13T19:02:41 < Steffanx> There must be a laser cut service in yankeeland, right bitmask ? Even dutchland has some, not even that expensivd
2019-08-13T19:03:26 < bitmask> yea I was looking at ponoko or something like that
2019-08-13T19:03:30 < bitmask> pricing isnt too bad
2019-08-13T19:03:36 < bitmask> if I get 5 sets cut then its like 20 a set
2019-08-13T19:03:39 < bitmask> for front and back
2019-08-13T19:03:54 < bitmask> or $36 for one set
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2019-08-13T19:19:04 < englishman> lol aandrew
2019-08-13T19:21:54 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: it's fixed and unalterable
2019-08-13T19:23:10 < karlp> it's not related to brightness?
2019-08-13T19:23:52 < Mangy_Dog> poop
2019-08-13T19:24:04 < aandrew> well yes, but what I mean is that you can't adjust the max, it is whatever it's set to internally
2019-08-13T19:24:40 < Mangy_Dog> with the tlc5947 you can set the CC current via a resistor
2019-08-13T19:24:47 < salcedo> 32 minutes left downloading a tar'd up ball of npm crap. can you guess how big it is?
2019-08-13T19:24:58 < Mangy_Dog> and your duty cycle setting is then running within that cc range
2019-08-13T19:25:10 < Mangy_Dog> i kinda hoped that the ws chip could do the same
2019-08-13T19:25:11 < Mangy_Dog> oh well
2019-08-13T19:25:16 < Mangy_Dog> reduced steps it is then
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2019-08-13T19:34:30 < karlp> salcedo: are you going to moan about your internet every day? while simultaneously deliberately working on things that need bandwidth?
2019-08-13T19:36:46 < englishman> lol
2019-08-13T19:37:17 < salcedo> karlp: absolutely!
2019-08-13T19:37:32 < salcedo> until tomorrow. then i get "LTE" back :)
2019-08-13T19:38:51 < Steffanx> Hi karlp. You want to do some daily moaning too? 
2019-08-13T19:38:58 < Steffanx> Its allowed.
2019-08-13T19:39:06 < karlp> nah, I'm good :)
2019-08-13T19:39:14 < Steffanx> ok ok
2019-08-13T19:43:17 < englishman> the weather is too nice. how come all cars aren't convertibles
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2019-08-13T19:47:42 < Steffanx> Those are meant for men of a certain age right?
2019-08-13T19:48:01 < karlp> englishman: https://imgflip.com/i/37x3y2 ;)
2019-08-13T19:49:29 < Steffanx> lol did you just make a meme? Damn you.
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2019-08-13T19:51:21 < englishman> it was super nice this weekend
2019-08-13T19:51:31 < englishman> visited an organic goat milk farm
2019-08-13T19:51:39 < englishman> and ate far too much cheese there
2019-08-13T19:51:47 < englishman> also saw kittens
2019-08-13T19:52:13 < englishman> peaches are in season
2019-08-13T19:52:23 < englishman> murdering chickens on Friday
2019-08-13T19:52:35 < englishman> all good stuff
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2019-08-13T19:53:12 < karlp> wind turned north on saturday here.  still 13C but not delish peak summer like before.
2019-08-13T19:53:51 < karlp> BrainDamage: got any more obscure/less famous italodisco for me?
2019-08-13T19:59:29 < qyx> I discovered temperance recently
2019-08-13T19:59:55 < qyx> it is uhm, italian metal maybe
2019-08-13T20:03:20 < englishman> I thought you were about to say you're sober now.
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2019-08-13T22:27:27 < emeb> Just say no to demon alcohol!
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2019-08-13T22:46:23 < ohsix> hi
2019-08-13T22:47:10 < ohsix> anyone looking for a job https://i.imgur.com/PTxY2EM.png
2019-08-13T22:47:23 < ohsix> https://www.kdedirect.com/
2019-08-13T22:48:54 < ohsix> i'm the only one i know in town, but i dunno if i have the time they need
2019-08-13T22:49:39 < emeryth> and here I was hoping it's stm32-lunix desktop integration
2019-08-13T22:55:53 < salcedo> i'm an stm32 noob that writes code and is looking for a jerb!
2019-08-13T23:02:11 < ohsix> poop, so irc. irl i'd just take biz cards but if people are interested in the work message me or something and i'll follow up when i know more
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2019-08-13T23:19:35 < turnip420> Sorry only know Python
2019-08-13T23:19:46 < turnip420> oh, and excel
2019-08-13T23:20:22 < ohsix> excel is good to know
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--- Day changed Wed Aug 14 2019
2019-08-14T00:09:22 < aandrew> hm
2019-08-14T00:10:30 < aandrew> can you guys throw this into your various search engines for weird shit and see if you can find ptp_firmware.zip ? it's from stmicro and should be the 1588 implementation used in AN3411, which ST seems to have lost
2019-08-14T00:10:49 < aandrew> I found a couple websites listing all the files ST *used* to have online, and a chinese website that doesn't exist anymore that may have had it, but that's it
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2019-08-14T00:23:15 < benishor> aandrew: here you go: http://hq.scene.ro/ptp_firmware.zip
2019-08-14T00:23:25 < benishor> I found it and stored it on my server
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2019-08-14T00:24:40 < benishor> just a sec, my kid turned off the microserver which acts as reverse proxy
2019-08-14T00:24:50 < benishor> currently rebooting
2019-08-14T00:26:28 < Steffanx> lol, tell your kids not to do that. 
2019-08-14T00:27:21 < Steffanx> where did benishor find it?
2019-08-14T00:27:42 < benishor> my kid is 2.5yo so it's not like he gets stuff I'm saying
2019-08-14T00:27:55 < benishor> I found it on a chinese site
2019-08-14T00:27:58 < Steffanx> then you should make it impossible for the kid to turn it off
2019-08-14T00:28:31 < benishor> quite hard to do when kids love buttons
2019-08-14T00:29:03 < Steffanx> electric fences are effective.
2019-08-14T00:29:49 < benishor> that's an option, yes
2019-08-14T00:30:28 < Steffanx> :P
2019-08-14T00:30:32 < benishor> finally the microserver, freenas and haproxy jail restarted
2019-08-14T00:30:40 < benishor> do care to retry the link
2019-08-14T00:30:42 < benishor> http://hq.scene.ro/ptp_firmware.zip
2019-08-14T00:30:57 < benishor> I hope that's what you need
2019-08-14T00:32:35 < aandrew> benishor: holy crap, where did you find that?
2019-08-14T00:32:47 < benishor> on the internets
2019-08-14T00:32:54 < aandrew> benishor: was it tec.icbuy.com by chance?
2019-08-14T00:33:10 < benishor> no, some chinese site
2019-08-14T00:33:27 < benishor> however, this is the pro tip: I stopped using google.com and switched to duckduckgo
2019-08-14T00:33:41 < benishor> I noticed there are some huge differences in the results
2019-08-14T00:33:49 < aandrew> benishor: hm, I used google, then ran through a dozen ftp search engines, trying more and more seedy places
2019-08-14T00:33:51 < benishor> google seems to filter shit on a basis I don't agree
2019-08-14T00:34:02 < aandrew> indeed. THANK YOU, benishor 
2019-08-14T00:34:05 < aandrew> wow that was amazing
2019-08-14T00:34:08 < benishor> duckduckgo is (stillk) pure
2019-08-14T00:34:11 < benishor> *still*
2019-08-14T00:34:41 < benishor> too bad, I used to be a google fan boy
2019-08-14T00:34:53 < aandrew> huh, it pops right up there. I'll be damned
2019-08-14T00:34:56 < aandrew> thank you again benishor 
2019-08-14T00:35:01 < benishor> no worries aandrew
2019-08-14T00:35:09 < benishor> may the electrons be with you
2019-08-14T00:35:20 < aandrew> indeed!
2019-08-14T00:41:06 < fenugrec> damn, lemo connectors are stupid expensive. wonder if Norcomp's "quik-loq" are compatible
2019-08-14T00:41:21 < aandrew> yep they are
2019-08-14T00:41:30 < aandrew> er no. "yep they are" to lemo being expensive
2019-08-14T00:41:35 < aandrew> I don't know about quik-loq
2019-08-14T00:42:10 < fenugrec> " fully intermateable with a wide variety of competitive products from other premium connector manufacturers."
2019-08-14T00:42:20 < fenugrec> sounds promising
2019-08-14T00:42:34 < karlp> man, weechat nick colouring fail aaagain, benishor, aandrew and fenugrec all in the same colour :(
2019-08-14T00:43:17 < fenugrec> karlp, are we supposed to have different colors ? how can you keep track with >100 hues ?
2019-08-14T00:43:36 < fenugrec> oh, just to differentiate replies
2019-08-14T00:43:43 < karlp> yeah.
2019-08-14T00:44:23 < fenugrec> aandrew, yea, a real "bargain" that quikloq : 26$ instead of 58
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2019-08-14T01:50:28 < Mangy_Dog> any freertos users here? Its been a while since i used it, but i thought there was a task scheduler where you can set the interval time where a task was called... rather than setting priorities for multithreading
2019-08-14T01:52:31 < Laurenceb> I just use chibios
2019-08-14T01:53:12 < Mangy_Dog> actually i think i used that too
2019-08-14T01:55:31 < karlp> xTimerCreate()?
2019-08-14T01:56:38 < Mangy_Dog> that sounds like a schedular
2019-08-14T01:56:40 < Mangy_Dog> er
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2019-08-14T02:03:35 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/yQwKx3H.png
2019-08-14T02:03:36 < bitmask> damn that looks good :P
2019-08-14T02:04:18 < Mangy_Dog> its nice but what is it?
2019-08-14T02:04:24 < Mangy_Dog> i mean i recognise the echo but the printed part?
2019-08-14T02:04:44 < bitmask> I printed a brain that lights up, its a stand for it
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2019-08-14T02:04:52 < Mangy_Dog> ohh
2019-08-14T02:05:13 < bitmask> I like the stand a lot better than the brain :P we'll see when its all together
2019-08-14T02:05:25 < Mangy_Dog> :~)
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2019-08-14T07:16:09 < salcedo> hey karlp ...
2019-08-14T07:16:28 < salcedo> just wanted to let you know i got my "LTE" back.
2019-08-14T07:17:02 < salcedo> 1.7Mbit/sec :)
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2019-08-14T09:43:04 < ohsix> sup
2019-08-14T09:51:21 < ohsix> is there a better thing to search for if you just want the ac adapter case? wall wart case? trying to find the chinesium version
2019-08-14T09:51:40 < ohsix> cases with stuff in them are cheap enough to shuck but that sucks and i need some empty shells for some things
2019-08-14T09:54:11 < jpa-> dunno about direct-from-china, but you can get some here  https://www.tme.eu/fi/en/katalog/power-supplies-enclosures_100628/
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2019-08-14T09:57:51 < ohsix> yea something similar to that. friend had a neat idea, most bathrooms have an outlet near the sink or whatever, and in this particular building the bathrooms are hundreds of feet down a hall, and you might end up in a line some parts of the day. you can't even see they're occupied until you're right in front of the door at the end of the hallway. the idea is to put a motion sensor or one of those 5.8ghz radar things in a plug pack to update a remote si
2019-08-14T09:58:23 < ohsix> it'll be 3d printed but that's especially ugly hanging in an outlet
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2019-08-14T10:38:44 < ohsix> hrm speaking of occupancy sensors. could you count how many people are in the bathroom with one sensor? is it sufficient to just know unbalanced crossings that end up with odd numbers means number-1 are the number of people in there?
2019-08-14T10:39:40 < ohsix> to see one person you get one beam break when they go in, and one when they go out; how does it break if two people enter, etc
2019-08-14T10:43:09 < Steffanx> Do you want to be counted Haohmaru ?
2019-08-14T11:02:12 < Steffanx> It's still executing?
2019-08-14T11:04:06 < zyp> ohsix' plan to hide cameras in all the bathrooms
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2019-08-14T11:31:02 < Steffanx> Did jly hear about ohsix's evil plans?
2019-08-14T11:32:03 < jly> hell i like you...
2019-08-14T11:32:10 < jly> you can come over to my house and fuck my sister!
2019-08-14T11:34:04 < PaulFertser> Spoiler alert: "sister" would happen to be jly in drag
2019-08-14T11:34:30 < jly> hi sir
2019-08-14T11:34:33 < jly> or this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxwAkQQLwk8
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2019-08-14T11:40:54 < jpa-> ohsix: depends a lot on sensor also; doppler radar on opposite wall could tell quite well whether people enter / leave; then you could just have it decay to 0 after some time of inactivity, in case some leaving goes undetected
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2019-08-14T11:42:29 < jpa-> alternatively a thermal camera (like the $50 grideye) above door; but i don't think beam break sensor would be particularly reliable in detecting direction of people, with their wavy hands waving and going halfway out and remembering something etc.
2019-08-14T11:49:01 < qyx> there are 3D ToF  camera sensors too
2019-08-14T11:49:02 < jadew> I'm with Haohmaru you can't count reliably
2019-08-14T11:49:14 < qyx> they have counting people in the feature list
2019-08-14T11:49:25 < jadew> consider someone entering together with their child
2019-08-14T11:49:39 < jadew> the child could be in their arms on the way in and on his own on his way out
2019-08-14T11:49:50 < jadew> this is bound to happen at least a couple of times per day
2019-08-14T11:50:30 < jadew> the only way to count them properly is with computer vision, but good luck installing actual cameras in a bathroom
2019-08-14T11:50:34 < jadew> you'll burn at the stake
2019-08-14T11:50:49 < qyx> glue some strain sensors on the floor
2019-08-14T11:51:58 < jpa-> but who cares about occupancy anyway, just detect when the stall doors are locked?
2019-08-14T11:52:17 < jadew> I didn't read the whole discussion, is that what this is about?
2019-08-14T11:53:03 < jadew> occupancy is easy
2019-08-14T11:53:15 < jadew> you can detect presence
2019-08-14T11:53:20 < qyx> ah yes, it seems he wanted just a remote occupancy sensor
2019-08-14T11:59:41 < jpa-> it seems he wants occupancy count, not just occupancy on/off
2019-08-14T12:00:50 < qyx> "you can't even see they're
2019-08-14T12:00:53 < qyx>                occupied until you're right in front of the door"
2019-08-14T12:01:02 < qyx> count > 0 imho
2019-08-14T12:01:45 < qyx> oh, then he wants counting
2019-08-14T12:02:42 < qyx> thats the problem of agile, the requirements change too frequently
2019-08-14T12:03:11 < jpa-> and agile people make beam counting difficult
2019-08-14T12:03:31 < jpa-> though if you are agile enough, you don't need a stall, just do number two in the urinal
2019-08-14T12:08:46 < jadew> lol
2019-08-14T12:33:16 < jly> i had to read that twice
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2019-08-14T14:39:39 < karlp> solution to a problem I didn't know I had: https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/t/taitien/miniature-crystal-ovens
2019-08-14T14:40:28 < karlp> as far as I can tell, I can get txco's for .1ppm for ~half the cost, a fraction of the size and a fraction of the power consumption of putting a generic hc49 crystal inside a pcb mounted oven that draws a fucking Watt!
2019-08-14T14:41:21 < Laurenceb> yeah but you can get better results with a xtal oven
2019-08-14T14:42:08 < benishor> in what regards?
2019-08-14T14:42:10 < Laurenceb> iirc LeoBodnar btfo'd ocxo or tcxo with a high spec tcxo on a little flexi pcb then embedded in wax 
2019-08-14T14:42:29 < Laurenceb> then put into a pll using gps to correct it long term
2019-08-14T14:42:38 < Laurenceb> benishor: Allen variance
2019-08-14T14:43:13 < karlp> Laurenceb: how much difference?  so you take an existing txco, and then also put it in an oven?
2019-08-14T14:43:19 < karlp> what's "btfo'd" mean?
2019-08-14T14:44:08 < Laurenceb> karlp: 4chan 
2019-08-14T14:44:16 < karlp> that'ðs not an answer
2019-08-14T14:44:19 < Laurenceb> karlp: nope, txco in wax
2019-08-14T14:44:30 < Laurenceb> that reduces short term temperature swings
2019-08-14T14:44:38 < Laurenceb> there is a bit of warm up drift
2019-08-14T14:44:45 < karlp> so... he didn't use an oven at all then?
2019-08-14T14:44:54 < Laurenceb> yeah its all passive
2019-08-14T14:45:12 < karlp> so your evidence/example of "you can get better results with an oven" is completely irrelevant? or what?
2019-08-14T14:45:30 < qyx> he btfo'd you
2019-08-14T14:45:33 < Laurenceb> after about 15 minutes short term is <1ppb and over a few minutes drift is ~1ns
2019-08-14T14:45:46 < karlp> (surely putting it in wax woudl _increase_ the startup lag, as it's just a dampener?)
2019-08-14T14:45:48 < Laurenceb> karlp: comparing performance with HP OCXO units
2019-08-14T14:46:00 < Laurenceb> megabux rack mounted clock units
2019-08-14T14:46:19 < Laurenceb> this was for HFT servers
2019-08-14T14:46:37 < qyx> so you are saying an average generic tcxo in a wax bath is comparable to a hp ocxo unit?
2019-08-14T14:46:49 < Laurenceb> with gps based pll its better, yes
2019-08-14T14:47:37 < Laurenceb> without the gps its not as good
2019-08-14T14:47:43 < zyp> well, duh
2019-08-14T14:47:52 < zyp> isn't that kinda obvious?
2019-08-14T14:48:09 < Laurenceb> yeah
2019-08-14T14:48:23 < Laurenceb> but not to HFT people who were buying HP OCXO units
2019-08-14T14:48:51 < qyx> so back to the karlp's point
2019-08-14T14:48:55 < qyx> a 1 watt oven is useless
2019-08-14T14:49:03 < karlp> I'm still not sure what crystal in hc49 or to5 you're meant to putting in one of those mini ovens that's going to outperform a surface mount txco?
2019-08-14T14:49:04 < qyx> either if mounted or not
2019-08-14T14:49:40 < Laurenceb> karlp: crystal size is fairly irrelevant
2019-08-14T14:49:53 < karlp> no, but availability of something worth putting in that oven is.
2019-08-14T14:50:10 < Laurenceb> with good temp control you can beat the best tcxo by some margin
2019-08-14T14:50:36 < karlp> so your'e saying that txco's... aren't?
2019-08-14T14:50:52 < Laurenceb> yeah no temperature compensation is perfect
2019-08-14T14:50:58 < karlp> but the oven is?
2019-08-14T14:51:04 < Laurenceb> yes
2019-08-14T14:51:16 < karlp> ok, run it by me, I buy this oven.  I get a 60C +- 1C space to put "anything" in.
2019-08-14T14:51:19 < Laurenceb> with the right controller you can hit <0.1C drift
2019-08-14T14:51:33 < karlp> what do I put there to get better than 100ppb out?
2019-08-14T14:51:53 < karlp> because those mini ovens I linked are like $40 and i can get a 100ppb txco on digikey for $20 in singles.
2019-08-14T14:52:09 < Laurenceb> a crystal with good tolerance
2019-08-14T14:52:56 < Laurenceb> or just put the tcxo in the oven
2019-08-14T14:53:20 < karlp> so when yous ay "good tolerance" what sort of crystal are you talking about?
2019-08-14T14:55:11 < Laurenceb> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/crystal-units/6938829/
2019-08-14T14:55:28 < Laurenceb> +-3ppm over -40 to +85
2019-08-14T14:56:10 < Laurenceb> should give you ~+-100ppb with +-1C temp control
2019-08-14T14:56:28 < Laurenceb> but you can do much better than +-1C drift, probably +-0.1C, so 10ppb
2019-08-14T14:56:30 < karlp> digikey only has 8ppm best crystal, unless their search is bussted, weird.
2019-08-14T14:56:45 < karlp> none of these datasheets show the curve for temp stability, just "+- x over range y"
2019-08-14T14:57:12 < Laurenceb> yeah usually it looks a bit like a sinusoid or 2nd or 3rd order polynomial
2019-08-14T14:58:09 < zyp> https://www.taitien.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/M05VVTT.pdf <- this looks like +/- 3C to me, not your 0.1C
2019-08-14T14:58:34 < zyp> so I think I'm with karlp on this
2019-08-14T14:58:38 < Laurenceb> so +-3ppm -> 6/(85+40)*~2.5=120ppb/C 
2019-08-14T14:58:47 < Laurenceb> ~2.5 for the gradient 
2019-08-14T14:58:57 < Laurenceb> zyp: thats piss poor temperature control
2019-08-14T14:59:05 < zyp> yeah?
2019-08-14T14:59:06 < Laurenceb> my soldering iron can manage better than that
2019-08-14T14:59:10 < karlp> zyp: says +-3 after startup, but +-1 when steady.
2019-08-14T14:59:30 < zyp> karlp, that's not clear to me
2019-08-14T14:59:32 < karlp> none of these txco datasheets mention anything about stabilty over temperature.
2019-08-14T14:59:32 < Laurenceb> I didnt read the digitkey datasheet, does the oven include a controller?
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2019-08-14T15:00:09 < zyp> Laurenceb, a shitty one, obviously
2019-08-14T15:00:11 < karlp> what's the 6 for in your formula?
2019-08-14T15:00:18 < karlp> 2*3ppm?
2019-08-14T15:00:20 < Laurenceb> +3 to -3
2019-08-14T15:00:22 < karlp> 85 - -40?
2019-08-14T15:00:24 < Laurenceb> yeah
2019-08-14T15:02:55 < karlp> none of these txco's talk about how good they are at a single temp or show curves, where do you get that data from other than experimentally?
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2019-08-14T15:03:58 < Laurenceb> for uncompensated crystals there are theoretical models
2019-08-14T15:04:41 < karlp> and for txcos you're planning on putting in an oven to be a hft nerd, it's, "spend those hft dollars talking to the vendor directly" I presume?
2019-08-14T15:05:41 < Laurenceb> http://www.quartzpro.com/images/d2.png
2019-08-14T15:06:09 < Laurenceb> ok so thats the general form of the uncompensated drift for the two typed of crystal cut
2019-08-14T15:06:36 < Laurenceb> those +-3ppm things I found are probably going to be AT
2019-08-14T15:07:57 < Laurenceb> if you can keep the oven around a point where the gradient goes to zero you can get crazy high performance
2019-08-14T15:08:09 < Laurenceb> but you need to find that via experimentation
2019-08-14T15:08:33 < Laurenceb> a few ppb
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2019-08-14T15:12:11 < benishor> Laurenceb: got more info? it sounds interesting to me
2019-08-14T15:12:43 < Laurenceb> Leos system http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=272
2019-08-14T15:14:57 < Laurenceb> benishor: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/manyadev.gif
2019-08-14T15:15:07 < Laurenceb> I dont have an Allen chart for the LeoNTP
2019-08-14T15:15:22 < Laurenceb> but iirc its better than Z3801A
2019-08-14T15:15:51 < Laurenceb> HTV2 is typical for high spec tcxo
2019-08-14T15:16:46 < Laurenceb> then again LeoNTP wasnt tested alongside a Z3801A
2019-08-14T15:17:14 < Laurenceb> I suspect the hump around 1000s from GPSDO is reduced by EGNOS
2019-08-14T15:34:19 < karlp> Laurenceb: thanks for the info.
2019-08-14T15:35:19 < karlp> how do you know if you got AT or SC cut?
2019-08-14T15:36:04 < karlp> sc looks to have flatter gradients in general, so should be easier to keep stable, just needs to be at higher temps than room temp
2019-08-14T15:37:02 < Laurenceb> not sure tbh, some of the manufacturers say wither in datasheet or in promotional flyers about their products
2019-08-14T15:38:26 < Laurenceb> *either
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2019-08-14T15:43:57 < karlp> if only that htv2 part number was remotely available
2019-08-14T15:44:18 < karlp> links are borked, nothing close in name on conwin.com
2019-08-14T15:44:25 < karlp> but similar specced
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2019-08-14T16:33:13 < karlp> nice, LPC55S66 has both usb fs + phy _and_ usb hs + phy
2019-08-14T16:35:47 < karlp> cute, I wonder how robust this is, "Supports setting a sealed part to Fault Analysis mode through Debug authentication"
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2019-08-14T18:39:35 < aandrew> heh
2019-08-14T18:39:45 < aandrew> $400 stm32 dev board, doesn't even come with debugger
2019-08-14T18:39:53 < aandrew> STM3210C-EVAL
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2019-08-14T21:10:29 < machinehum> There's no stlink on that guy?
2019-08-14T21:14:51 < aandrew> nada
2019-08-14T21:18:07 < specing> It would be too expensive with stlink
2019-08-14T21:19:40 < Thorn> not too moneyed westerners
2019-08-14T21:20:52 < emeb> damned westerners with all their monies
2019-08-14T21:31:45 < Mangy_Dog> i buy from china because im a poor westerner
2019-08-14T21:31:46 < salcedo> where is $400 stm32 dev board? gimmegimme! must use CC! moar debt! moar spend! means happy!
2019-08-14T21:34:31 < Steffanx> Spend more money on your connection salcedo  
2019-08-14T21:37:15 < Cracki> it's got that 20pin jtag connector. maybe they assume you'll want to use your $4000 jlink
2019-08-14T21:37:42 < specing> Dont talk too much or salcedo will lag out
2019-08-14T21:38:18 < Cracki> I'll send him a carrier pigeon. in a stamped envelope.
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2019-08-14T21:43:38 < Thorn> maybe ST designed that board for proper moneyed westerners with j-trace / ulink pro / whatever other $6000 probes are out there
2019-08-14T21:43:59 < Cracki> oh, their jtrace pro is only 2000 coins
2019-08-14T21:45:03 < Cracki> J-Link ARM-DFPU-EvalBoard, 3k bucks
2019-08-14T21:45:18 < Cracki> boy are they selling themselves cheap!
2019-08-14T22:00:29 < salcedo> just came back from a conference call over voip that kept cutting out and realized that your chats caused my mosh session to go into an ack storm.
2019-08-14T22:16:55 < aandrew> this is an old dev board (STM32F107) but it's fully decked out, not cheap nucleo grade
2019-08-14T22:17:06 < aandrew> still, would have been nice to have a debugger on it
2019-08-14T22:17:30 < Cracki> did they even have stlinks back then?
2019-08-14T22:18:15 < aandrew> I'd like to say this is 1999 but there's no way this board is 20y old
2019-08-14T22:20:46 < aandrew> hm
2019-08-14T22:20:52 < aandrew> the nucleo boards with ethernet use RMII
2019-08-14T22:21:04 < aandrew> I should just dump my design into one of them ot see if it's got similar ethernet issues
2019-08-14T22:21:11 < aandrew> something's screwy with this board and I can't figure it out
2019-08-14T22:33:59 < PaulFertser> aandrew: I used stm32f107 with RMII and I too had packet loss. The issue was very funny.
2019-08-14T22:35:20 < PaulFertser> aandrew: by some accident and copy-paste from old design the guy doing the hw routed MCO with 25MHz to the PHY and then its "clock out" signal back to the RMII.
2019-08-14T22:36:03 < PaulFertser> (IIRC it was a mistake taken over from old board with some LPC2xxx which was more forgiving in that regard so the bug wasn't evident)
2019-08-14T22:36:12 < machinehum> Turn optimizer off... code works... turn optimizer on... code doesn't work
2019-08-14T22:36:16 < machinehum> good.
2019-08-14T22:36:49 < emeb> BTDT
2019-08-14T22:36:54 < PaulFertser> machinehum: hence I put -O2 (or -Os) right from the start. The sooner you see you added a problem, the better.
2019-08-14T22:37:16 < emeb> usually means you've got code depending on undefined behavior
2019-08-14T22:37:33 < machinehum> You don't use -03?
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2019-08-14T22:38:42 < PaulFertser> Well, -O3 used to be kinda buggy/experimental back in the days so...
2019-08-14T22:41:01 < machinehum> It just inlines everything no?
2019-08-14T22:41:19 < machinehum> -O2 is for size and -O3 is for speed
2019-08-14T22:41:21 < machinehum> ?
2019-08-14T22:41:29 < Rajko> n
2019-08-14T22:41:34 < Rajko> O3 is ridiculous overdrive 
2019-08-14T22:41:36 < Rajko> Os is speed
2019-08-14T22:42:02 < machinehum> "ridiculous overdrive"
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2019-08-14T22:42:20 < Rajko> yes like try to unroll everything and inline everything and try to auto-vectorize
2019-08-14T22:42:24 < Rajko> completely mangles
2019-08-14T22:42:31 < machinehum> So you would not reccomend?
2019-08-14T22:42:40 < machinehum> lol
2019-08-14T22:45:41 < qyx> since when is Os for speed
2019-08-14T22:45:49 < Rajko> size
2019-08-14T22:46:03 < Rajko> didnt even realize i typed speed
2019-08-14T22:46:17 < Rajko> O2 is normal release build
2019-08-14T22:46:51 < mawk> I bought snus
2019-08-14T22:46:59 < mawk> you like it Steffanx I heard
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2019-08-14T22:54:07 < aandrew> PaulFertser: well ... I'm seeing this with STM32F756 but it's not a normal application
2019-08-14T22:54:17 < aandrew> the STM32 is connected to an FPGA via RMII
2019-08-14T22:54:29 < aandrew> but it's close enough to a dev board that I should be able to dump it on to the dev board and verify 
2019-08-14T22:55:04 < aandrew> the PTP code (thanks again benishor!) from st is working on the F107, I wanted a known-good starting point for making it work on F756
2019-08-14T22:55:19 < aandrew> what's amusing is that they changed TFT LCDs; the text is all mirrored
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2019-08-14T22:56:20 < qyx> can't you use a mirror?
2019-08-14T22:56:39 < aandrew> nah I just have to recompile with the fix
2019-08-14T23:06:43 < Steffanx> Lol only kakimir likes it mawk
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2019-08-14T23:12:01 < superbia> honey I'm home
2019-08-14T23:17:01 < Thorn> what do I need for a secure protocol other than (1) generating a shared key using ecdh (2) using it as a session key to encrypt packets using AES (3) having a counter in every packet to prevent replay attacks?
2019-08-14T23:18:23 < machinehum> Wait so how do I compile for speed lol?
2019-08-14T23:18:31 < zyp> Thorn, secure against what?
2019-08-14T23:18:35 < zyp> what's your threat model?
2019-08-14T23:19:04 < Thorn> some cunt with a SDR
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2019-08-14T23:20:08 < Thorn> most importantly I want to protect against malicious commands sent to peripheral devices
2019-08-14T23:21:12 < superbia> why do you do security
2019-08-14T23:21:18 < Thorn> I'm thinking about requiring the user to connect devices to the controller via USB to pair them before they can be used on that network
2019-08-14T23:21:21 < superbia> there's security insurance that thinks about security
2019-08-14T23:21:40 < superbia> you still have to use insurance, so why bother with implementing it
2019-08-14T23:22:43 < Thorn> what insurance?
2019-08-14T23:23:00 < superbia> you don't use insurance
2019-08-14T23:23:24 < Cracki> what are those connectors called for connecting quadrotor bldcs? I find "bullet connectors" in various diameters, but some look like stamped sheet metal and some look solid and milled (high quality). is there a distinction between *those*?
2019-08-14T23:23:38 < salcedo> Thorn: microcontroller device?
2019-08-14T23:24:44 < Thorn> yes with a packet radio transceiver chip
2019-08-14T23:24:58 < salcedo> i am doing something with lora that will require the same
2019-08-14T23:25:14 < salcedo> there are some libraries for crypto, but they've turned out to be clunky and buggy.
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2019-08-14T23:25:52 < salcedo> i'm using a microsd card in my project to store a small amount of info... which leaves several GB of empty space on said sd card.
2019-08-14T23:26:25 < salcedo> so... been thinking about just turning the sd card into a OTP and using a counter to tell the other side which part of the pad to scratch off.
2019-08-14T23:27:38 < salcedo> for my purposes, this would work... for your purposes... probably too cumbersome if there will be many devices used by "end users" / if they all have to talk back to some centralized "thing"
2019-08-14T23:28:32 < salcedo> however, if it's feasible for you. there could be benefits. as long as reading from the sd card isn't slower than the maximum bit rate of your transceiver, the crypto overhead on the mcu is... xor.
2019-08-14T23:28:38 < BrainDamage> Thorn: don't reinvent the wheel and use an existing known lib/protocol, like signal's double raatchet
2019-08-14T23:29:19 < qyx> there were some issues with otr-like ratchet protocols
2019-08-14T23:29:28 < qyx> I mean when used with a radio
2019-08-14T23:29:46 < salcedo> for my project, lora is slow enough that, given a large enough sd card with random data on it as the pad, would rarely if ever need to be refreshed.
2019-08-14T23:29:48 < qyx> and still
2019-08-14T23:30:01 < qyx> tjis doesn't solve the auth
2019-08-14T23:30:14 < qyx> you either have to TOFU or pair beforehand
2019-08-14T23:30:56 < BrainDamage> well, he mentioned direct usb connection for pairing
2019-08-14T23:31:07 < BrainDamage> which would solve key sharing problems
2019-08-14T23:31:07 < Thorn> my stuff is semi-industrial and most devices have USB already so I guess OOTB pairing is acceptable
2019-08-14T23:31:57 < qyx> then generate keypair for each device
2019-08-14T23:32:09 < qyx> exchange public keys over usb
2019-08-14T23:32:26 < qyx> and then do authemticated key exchange
2019-08-14T23:32:29 < Thorn> and implementing usb host/otg on the controller is not difficult
2019-08-14T23:32:31 < BrainDamage> is the comm point to point or do you have multiple connections?
2019-08-14T23:32:40 < qyx> sigma, skeme, otr's 3DH or similar
2019-08-14T23:34:46 < Thorn> BrainDamage: in the current design peripherals talk only to the coordinator. this may need to change later
2019-08-14T23:35:31 < Thorn> for example I may need to add routers (as zigbee calls them iirc) to relay packets
2019-08-14T23:37:07 < qyx> also, great thing for radio and preshared keys for many-to-many comms is AES-GCM-SIV or other cipher in a SIV construct
2019-08-14T23:41:30 < Thorn> qyx: ok thanks I will look into it. (the problem is where to find the implementation of primitives for all this stuff, I understand mbed-tls is not going to be enough)
2019-08-14T23:43:28 < Cracki> a selection? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_cryptography_libraries
2019-08-14T23:44:20 < Cracki> portability section has at least two that list rtoses
2019-08-14T23:44:39 < qyx> Thorn: I mostly used DJB's primitives, you can find them in his ref implementation libraries
2019-08-14T23:44:44 < qyx> because fuk AES
2019-08-14T23:45:30 < Thorn> what symmetric cypher are you using then
2019-08-14T23:45:38 < qyx> but if you need industrial, then it is probably not the way to go
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2019-08-14T23:46:45 < qyx> you can use stream cipher constructed from a PRF
2019-08-14T23:46:56 < qyx> crypto safe PRF
2019-08-14T23:47:38 < qyx> see chacha20+poly1305 from TLS
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2019-08-14T23:47:50 < qyx> or HS1-SIV
2019-08-14T23:49:11 < qyx> I was using Blake2s in a SIV both to construct the syntjetic IV, authenticate and encrypt
2019-08-14T23:49:38 < qyx> only a single primitive
2019-08-14T23:49:51 < aandrew> hm
2019-08-14T23:50:09 < aandrew> ok my code that is 50%ish packet loss on my board is perfect on the nucleo with the same proc
2019-08-14T23:50:33 < aandrew> that tells me it's either the FPGA HDL or the link between them
2019-08-14T23:50:45 < qyx> it is super fast, small, simple and reasonabnly secure, there are many papers available
2019-08-14T23:50:46 < Cracki> nucleo to fpga?
2019-08-14T23:50:53 < aandrew> Cracki: no, StM32 to FPGA
2019-08-14T23:50:57 < aandrew> nucleo is just a devboard
2019-08-14T23:51:03 < aandrew> using its on-board PHY 
2019-08-14T23:51:09 < Cracki> yes, so how are you gonna test the link?
2019-08-14T23:51:16 < Cracki> just assume the fpga is at fault?
2019-08-14T23:51:38 < aandrew> Cracki: well I was fairly certain it was not. I looked at the timing and it seems correctly constrained
2019-08-14T23:51:44 < aandrew> so it's gotta be my hdl
2019-08-14T23:52:01 < Cracki> hook up fpga to nucleo?
2019-08-14T23:52:04 < aandrew> the MAC on the FPGA is even an intel IP core, but I have a little MII-to-RMII bridge between it
2019-08-14T23:52:10 < aandrew> I don't want to fuck around with that
2019-08-14T23:52:14 < Cracki> heh
2019-08-14T23:52:44 < aandrew> but this isn't a HAL issue and it's not a code issue on the STM32 apparently
2019-08-14T23:52:45 < aandrew> so, fuck.
2019-08-14T23:53:27 < Thorn> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_uS0aT0bG8
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--- Day changed Thu Aug 15 2019
2019-08-15T00:06:13 < Thorn> Übermusics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ozHUBJmv-0
2019-08-15T00:14:38 < karlp> qyx: whats' PRF please?
2019-08-15T00:16:59 < Thorn> Pseudorandom Function probably
2019-08-15T00:33:45 -!- kakimir [b237b2c4@178-55-178-196.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-15T00:34:48 < kakimir> yes hello
2019-08-15T00:38:36 < Steffanx> You missed my call kakimir ?
2019-08-15T00:39:03 < salcedo> kakimir: hello! for english, press one. для русского бота, нажмите два
2019-08-15T00:39:34 < kakimir> I missed steff
2019-08-15T00:42:47 < Thorn> noch mehr Übermusics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa2TIXrwWbo
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2019-08-15T01:05:32 < englishman> emeb: this zynq has been sitting on my desk since October, and I will probably have a fpga project to do in December. besides installing vivado what should I do to get started
2019-08-15T01:05:40 < kakimir> englishman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkbuZfC06d8
2019-08-15T01:05:47 < englishman> hey kako
2019-08-15T01:05:59 < kakimir> kaky
2019-08-15T01:06:04 < englishman> The uploader has not made this video available in your country.
2019-08-15T01:06:04 < emeb> englishman: which zynq board do you have?
2019-08-15T01:06:11 < englishman> 7000? iirc
2019-08-15T01:06:46 < emeb> englishman: no - who made it, what's it called. (not the type of Zynq on it)
2019-08-15T01:07:08 < emeb> because there are some good board-specific tutorials 
2019-08-15T01:07:14 < kakimir> englishman: you know there is small part of united states surrounded by canadian border
2019-08-15T01:07:36 < englishman> Cora 7000
2019-08-15T01:07:43 < englishman> from digi
2019-08-15T01:07:58 < englishman> hmm it might be discontinued
2019-08-15T01:08:10 < englishman> Cora z7 looks close
2019-08-15T01:08:21 < emeb> englishman: OK. That's one I don't have experience with. Anyway - have you used Vivado before?
2019-08-15T01:08:32 < englishman> no just ise in university
2019-08-15T01:08:47 < emeb> englishman: OK - it's a beast and took me some time to get used to it.
2019-08-15T01:08:55 < englishman> oh goody
2019-08-15T01:09:22 < englishman> I guess that's a good place to start
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2019-08-15T01:09:38 < englishman> with project creation up to simulation
2019-08-15T01:09:38 < emeb> Setting up projects, adding IP cores, doing the code for the embedded ARM is all stuff that's handy to get familiar with.
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2019-08-15T01:10:30 < emeb> Xilinx has flows for doing Linux-based systems as well as bare-metal. I'd suggest starting with bare metal for simplicity.
2019-08-15T01:11:14 < emeb> Default code for that is simple hello-world type stuff the uses the on-chip UARTs so that's a great place to start.
2019-08-15T01:11:24 < englishman> oh cool
2019-08-15T01:11:30 < englishman> yeah that should get me familiar
2019-08-15T01:11:48 < englishman> does the simulator also simulate the arm core
2019-08-15T01:11:54 < englishman> I guess it has to?
2019-08-15T01:12:03 < emeb> No it doesn
2019-08-15T01:12:15 < emeb> the sim is only for the HDL side of things. 
2019-08-15T01:12:20 < englishman> ah so I just simulate its interface
2019-08-15T01:12:23 < englishman> ok
2019-08-15T01:12:36 < emeb> interaction between fpga & arm is up to you to check out real-time
2019-08-15T01:12:55 < emeb> But their SDK is basically Eclipse with realtime debug, so that's not a huge problem.
2019-08-15T01:13:19 < englishman> for the arm part
2019-08-15T01:13:31 < emeb> right
2019-08-15T01:13:36 < englishman> ok nice
2019-08-15T01:13:50 < emeb> Here are the tutorials I used on my Minized http://zedboard.org/support/design/18891/146
2019-08-15T01:14:17 < emeb> you won't be able to directly implement those on the Cora, but it might give you an idea of the general flow.
2019-08-15T01:15:34 < emeb> Especially Tutorial 02 - Hello World. That's pretty generic.
2019-08-15T01:15:53 < emeb> & tutorial 01 
2019-08-15T01:15:59 < englishman> nice, thanks
2019-08-15T01:17:16 < englishman> this project could turn out to be easy but I'd like to learn more about small FPGAs as I think the equipment im working on now would be better suited to an FPGA+MCU than the two-mcu setup they are using now
2019-08-15T01:17:38 < englishman> as realtime on a MCU is never really that
2019-08-15T01:17:40 < emeb> looks like Digilent has a bunch of tutorials too - check the website
2019-08-15T01:18:22 < emeb> Yeah - once I'd gotten familiar with the Zynq + Vivado stuff I was able to crank some basic stuff out w/o too much trouble.
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2019-08-15T01:19:01 < emeb> The ARM runs fast and the FPGA part integrates easily with it using the processes in Vivado
2019-08-15T01:19:52 < emeb> My main complaint is that maintaining a coherent revision control in Vivado is a major PITA. The tools generate so many random files in huge directory structures that it's hard to know what you need to save to rebuild the project from scratch.
2019-08-15T01:20:50 < emeb> And every time I searched for info on that I'd find wikis and blogs that were years out of date and disagreed with each other.
2019-08-15T01:20:59 < englishman> you put it all in a .zip and put that in revision control of course
2019-08-15T01:21:17 < emeb> Yeah. If you want to save a bunch of 2GB zipfiles...
2019-08-15T01:21:40 < englishman> rev_1.zip
2019-08-15T01:21:45 < emeb> "That's how they do it in India..."
2019-08-15T01:23:00 < englishman> well that isn't too much of a problem for 1-user projects but I can see that hurting opensores
2019-08-15T01:23:42 < emeb> I like to keep all my source & makefiles in CVS (yeah - old) just to keep track of it and back it up. Vivado doesn't really support that.
2019-08-15T01:24:09 < emeb> But that's mostly a nit.
2019-08-15T01:24:26 < englishman> work just implemented SVN like a month ago
2019-08-15T01:24:43 < emeb> slightly better that CVS. :)
2019-08-15T01:24:57 < englishman> tortoise SVN is not bad
2019-08-15T01:25:09 < emeb> yep
2019-08-15T01:25:14 < englishman> if you don't work concurrently
2019-08-15T01:25:27 < emeb> Oh - you'll want to grab the board support files from Digilent.
2019-08-15T01:25:38 < emeb> Hopefully the definition for your Cora is in there.
2019-08-15T01:25:48 < emeb> That makes setting up projects a lot easier.
2019-08-15T01:26:05 < emeb> But you can do it manually if you need to - just more mousing around needed.
2019-08-15T01:26:07 < englishman> it's kind of bare bones but it'll have the specific chip layout and stuff?
2019-08-15T01:26:38 < emeb> Yeah - the right Zynq part / pkg, plus any dedicated I/O on the board.
2019-08-15T01:29:56 < englishman> alright thanks emeb
2019-08-15T01:30:34 < emeb> englishman: sure - good luck with that.
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2019-08-15T02:58:54 < karlp> hrm, I didn't know that equal priority nvics could interrupt each other.
2019-08-15T02:59:16 < karlp> did I fall into grouped mode by default or something so that spi1 can preempt exti9_5?
2019-08-15T02:59:23 < karlp> because thhat's what I'm seeing.
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2019-08-15T05:20:04 < bitmask> teensy 4 looks nifty
2019-08-15T05:20:08 < bitmask> lotta power on a tiny board
2019-08-15T05:28:23 < bitmask> hmm nice, battery recall on my mbp, get a free new battery
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2019-08-15T06:32:49 < turnip420> bitmask: But no jtag?
2019-08-15T06:32:59 < turnip420> Just the silly USB bootloader
2019-08-15T06:33:22 < turnip420> machinehum: Get out of here
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2019-08-15T07:04:45 < Cracki> yeah where the fuck are its swd pins
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2019-08-15T07:06:22 < Cracki> uhuh looks like they *might* be on the bottom pads behind the usb port
2019-08-15T07:06:39 < Cracki> nvm, that's prolly sd card
2019-08-15T07:07:33 < Cracki> for such a work horse, I'd have expected more pins broken out
2019-08-15T07:07:42 < Cracki> (in usable form)
2019-08-15T07:17:07 < johntramp> hi,   I am getting a stack overflow, which leads to hardfault exception. I thought I could set a breakpoint at the memory address of the top of the stack to find out what is accessing it, but the data is changing however the breakpoint isn't being triggered. Am I going about this the right way, or is there something I am missing with how the data breakpoints work?
2019-08-15T07:24:51 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/02iqLlY.png
2019-08-15T07:24:55 < bitmask> almost done
2019-08-15T07:26:42 < turnip420> johntramp: https://www.freertos.org/Stacks-and-stack-overflow-checking.html
2019-08-15T07:26:46 < turnip420> It works well
2019-08-15T07:26:51 < turnip420> Assuming you're using FreeRTOS
2019-08-15T07:27:12 < johntramp> no rtos but I will look at what they're doing 
2019-08-15T07:27:16 < turnip420> Oh
2019-08-15T07:27:28 < turnip420> Wait so your stack is crashing into your heap?
2019-08-15T07:29:40 < johntramp> I think so, or something else is wiping the stack clean
2019-08-15T07:30:00 < johntramp> it is jumping to address 0x00000000 and hardfaulting
2019-08-15T07:31:06 < johntramp> I am setting the stack data to 0x5555 on reset, and it is all 0x0000 when the hardfault occurrs 
2019-08-15T07:31:38 < johntramp> so I was trying to break on whenever the 0x5555 data is wiped
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2019-08-15T07:38:16 < turnip420> Are you dereferencing a null ptr somewhere?
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2019-08-15T09:08:16 < ohsix> zyp: heheheh, could very well be true, even a sensor that detects the light being on is a hard sell, very sensitive. from what i gather everyone wants a solution tho
2019-08-15T09:08:21 < ohsix> https://www.nxp.com/applications/solutions/industrial/unmanned-aerial-vehicles-uavs/uavs-drones-and-rovers/nxp-hovergames-drone-kit-including-rddrone-fmuk66-and-peripherals:KIT-HGDRONEK66
2019-08-15T09:09:52 < ohsix> jpa-: i've been meaning to throw a scope on one of the 5.8ghz one, it is doppler but the onboard mcu/asic does it, doubt theres a sign pin but maybe i could tap something
2019-08-15T09:13:47 < PaulFertser> johntramp: it's called "watchpoint", not "breakpoint", how do you set it?
2019-08-15T09:14:48 < Cracki> watchpoints are for when data changes, maybe he does mean that
2019-08-15T09:15:02 < Cracki> (data = memory location)
2019-08-15T09:15:35 < Cracki> nvm, I'm tired
2019-08-15T09:16:09 < PaulFertser> There's one catch/trick tough: watchpoints do not work for changes that happen via DMA.
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2019-08-15T09:21:38 < qyx> karlp: pseudorandom function
2019-08-15T09:34:36 < ohsix> PaulFertser: the resulting trace event or halt is bogus when it is a dma transfer, or not at all? when are the comparators evaluated in the dwt?
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2019-08-15T09:36:56 < PaulFertser> ohsix: in my experience, DMA didn't trigger it at all.
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2019-08-15T09:50:33 < jpa-> ohsix: so don't the stalls have locks? why not just detect locked / unlocked?
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2019-08-15T09:57:00 < jly> good morning steffan
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2019-08-15T10:14:59  * PaulFertser thought for a minute jpa- is talking about some CPU stalls when it needs to wait for memory or something like that, and related locks. Thought that's a topic too advanced for him to understand.
2019-08-15T10:15:19 < rajkosto> so how do you cheaply control buck voltage from mcu
2019-08-15T10:15:23 < rajkosto> needs to be i2c ?
2019-08-15T10:16:03 < jpa-> DAC to resistor divider on feedback pin
2019-08-15T10:17:36 < rajkosto> i2c potentiometer would probably work too
2019-08-15T10:17:46 < rajkosto> how common is dac on super cheap mcu
2019-08-15T10:17:46 < jpa-> sure
2019-08-15T10:18:03 < jpa-> many STM32's have it
2019-08-15T10:18:45 < jpa-> of course cheapest is just to ADC + timer it, skipping the whole buck controller chip; takes some more software but if you already have the timer & ADC it's cheap because software is zero-cost ;)
2019-08-15T10:18:58 < rajkosto> software is the highest cost
2019-08-15T10:18:59 < rajkosto> time
2019-08-15T10:19:06 < jpa-> code faster
2019-08-15T10:19:14 < rajkosto> messing around with variosu parameters
2019-08-15T10:19:30 < rajkosto> and you would have to use mosfets anyway, that buck has inbuilt
2019-08-15T10:20:02 < rajkosto> and stm32 gpio isnt a mosfet driver exactly
2019-08-15T10:21:27 < jpa-> valid points
2019-08-15T10:22:58 < rajkosto> + much higher risk of frying the device or mosfets by leaving them stuck
2019-08-15T10:31:09 < rajkosto> i would use the stm32 to pwm signal the fan though
2019-08-15T10:50:10 < ohsix> jpa-: it's 4 separate rooms at the end of the same hall, and ya that came up, it's more complicated but doable
2019-08-15T10:51:03 < ohsix> there's a cute way to do it with most locks & a 3d printed shim, detect when the bar is vertical or not, only adds a few mm between the door and the knob. actually hooking it up or having batteries in it sucks tho
2019-08-15T10:52:16 < ohsix> the only real problem is people not turning the light off and leaving the door closed, which they can figure out pretty quick if they want the readout to work :D
2019-08-15T10:52:38 < ohsix> (and most do already)
2019-08-15T10:52:55 < jpa-> glue strong magnet to locking bar, put magnetic sensor in the door jamb, hope it gets close enough when locked
2019-08-15T10:53:10 < ohsix> and right now they're not worried about someone doing it on purpose to get a private bathroom
2019-08-15T10:53:51 < ohsix> just a fun thing to think about and make, uno
2019-08-15T10:55:09 < Steffanx> What PaulFertser. You have no clue what kind of smart arse jpa-  is? He's not jly ;)
2019-08-15T10:55:40 < jly> what did I do now?
2019-08-15T10:55:42 < ohsix> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32832502869.html these things are cool and work great, no long timeouts like passive infrared; extremely sensitive heuhuehurhruh
2019-08-15T10:57:50 < ohsix> moving a finger a tiny bit at 5 ft sensitive
2019-08-15T10:58:15 < ohsix> was actually hard to sit still enough to not trigger it
2019-08-15T10:59:23 < jpa-> cool
2019-08-15T11:31:28 < ohsix> hrm they were 15 cents when i bought a bunch
2019-08-15T11:38:19 < ohsix> and now for something completely different. any beekeepers??/ i've met a ton in the local area lately and making stuff for beehives seems interesting
2019-08-15T11:38:39 < ohsix> it's pretty hard to get better than a box and the proper attention
2019-08-15T11:41:03 < ohsix> aside from weighing it and tracking the temperature which can tell you what the bees are doing, they also make weird noises when stuff happens and you can tell when they're abandoning the hive and stuff
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2019-08-15T13:19:24 < karlp> ohsix: https://www.aliexpress.com/4-times-cheaper-than-ohsixs/32712290396.html is ~50c instead of $2... looks like same module
2019-08-15T13:20:12 < karlp> can't see the much cheaper than that in singles
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2019-08-15T13:22:35 < jpa-> your cute link doesn't open for me
2019-08-15T13:30:24 < Ultrasauce> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/you-forgot-the-item/32712290396.html
2019-08-15T13:44:08 < karlp> bah, thanks ultra
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2019-08-15T13:49:06 < rajkosto> the clone LM2596 that is so prevalent on aliexpress, what are the correct inductor/capacitor values for its 50khz switching freq
2019-08-15T14:04:24 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I know, hence the confusion. I assumed by default he's talking about something smart, not those boring toilet stalls.
2019-08-15T14:17:47 < Steffanx> Lol
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2019-08-15T15:05:58 < salcedo> shipment departed from airport of origin country
2019-08-15T15:06:00 < salcedo> yay!
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2019-08-15T15:42:21 < benishor> salcedo: china pcbs?
2019-08-15T15:42:54 < salcedo> yeppers
2019-08-15T16:19:43 < Steffanx> Ohno
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2019-08-15T16:57:16 < RocketScientist> Hello everyone, Freelancer embedded engineer (that's me :) ) is seeking for a sponsor to get this thing to Ebay market:
2019-08-15T16:57:18 < RocketScientist> Youtube Video playlist:
2019-08-15T16:57:18 < RocketScientist> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9tPHhJcyW80p7ANIkHxmaebznlKFklAT
2019-08-15T16:57:18 < RocketScientist> App screenshots and robot photos:
2019-08-15T16:57:18 < RocketScientist> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/csrdd8usbfpu7oi/AADom-dVwvcnkQNWCaK1nHT2a?dl=0
2019-08-15T16:57:18 < RocketScientist> Robot PCB:
2019-08-15T16:57:18 < RocketScientist> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/44reogbd7cy4rmh/AACUPF8LUgkBK8uu8VbEwQlFa?dl=0
2019-08-15T16:57:18 < RocketScientist> PCBWAY.COM pcb assembly price quote for 5pieces(including parts and pcbs itself):
2019-08-15T16:57:19 < RocketScientist> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kx6jkf9m29lxpa6/asdasd.png?dl=0
2019-08-15T17:08:34 < Ultrasauce> is there ik or is it just joint-space cycles
2019-08-15T17:09:35 < Ultrasauce> also what is a 'sponsor'? is there expected RoI or what
2019-08-15T17:12:17 < RocketScientist> Ultrasauce: what you mean "ik" "joint-space cycles" and "RoI"? sorry I don't understand
2019-08-15T17:14:01 < Thorn> RocketScientist: inverse kinematics, return on investment
2019-08-15T17:14:10 < Thorn> >The energy meter is suitble for Solar system
2019-08-15T17:17:26 < RocketScientist> Thorn: We will try to sell it on Ebay and get 50/50 of revenue, or if we fail to do so for 6 month, he will get all 5 pieces of robots. Project will also need except PCBs some advertising/laser cutting of acrylic sheet and servos (cheap enough).
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2019-08-15T17:25:40 < rajkosto> you cant afford 112$ for prototypes ?
2019-08-15T17:31:34 < RocketScientist> rajkosto: you might not believe but NO. I also write code for STM32 or design PCBs cheap, $20 job will welcome, pay after you will test that code is working.
2019-08-15T17:42:38 < jpa-> go earn some money on freelancer.com first, then fund your prototypes yourself
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2019-08-15T17:54:53 < benishor> RocketScientist: where are you from?
2019-08-15T17:55:28 < RocketScientist> benishor: Georgia (country between Russia and Turkey)
2019-08-15T17:55:29 < benishor> which part of russia
2019-08-15T17:55:33 < benishor> ah, georgia
2019-08-15T17:56:10 < benishor> that pcb seems to be done at one of our chinese friends
2019-08-15T17:56:19 < benishor> and also robots has a 3d printed frame
2019-08-15T17:56:27 < benishor> *robot seems to have*
2019-08-15T17:56:38 < benishor> so what do you need a sponsor for?
2019-08-15T17:57:23 < benishor> also, you might get better prices at jlcpcb
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2019-08-15T17:59:48 < RocketScientist> benishor: there is no 3d printing used, it is laser cut acrylic sheet, legs drilled vertically and self attack screws mounted. PCB is made at PCBWAY, I really preffer PCBWAY quality over JLCPCB, I don't think they will give any significant difference in price for 5 pieces (including all the parts)
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2019-08-15T18:59:11 < karlp> you might need a sponsor for a new potato first.
2019-08-15T19:00:52 < karlp> what's the battery protector pcb doing?
2019-08-15T19:01:15 < karlp> gack mini-B, fail
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2019-08-15T19:35:02 < kakimir> fractal 804 very nice steff
2019-08-15T19:35:18 < kakimir> in future I will ask you computer related recommendations
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2019-08-15T19:45:54 < RocketScientist> karlp: Battery protector does its job, prevents demage of battery from overdischarge
2019-08-15T19:46:32 < RocketScientist> karlp: Mini-B is higher current rated than Micro B, also more durable, what is "fail" with that?
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2019-08-15T20:24:50 < PaulFertser> RocketScientist: mini B cables are harder to find these days. And micro B are used in plenty of beefy tablets that charge at 2+A isn't that enough?
2019-08-15T20:37:29 < RocketScientist> PaulFertser: In which country or city you have seen deficiency of USB Mini cables? https://www.amazon.com/s?k=USB+Mini+cable&ref=nb_sb_noss It is bit larger, handles better, durable, if I will make USB Mini there, people like you will ask why there is no Type C connector, because their Samsung comes with Type C and they already Have cables for Type C. And if I do Type C, than someone will call if "fail" because it has no Apple connector 
2019-08-15T20:37:29 < RocketScientist> or wireless charger.
2019-08-15T20:37:55 < RocketScientist> I mean USB Micro
2019-08-15T20:40:53 < PaulFertser> RocketScientist: I personally like mini connector more. But I can understand people saying they have no spare cables for that just lying around anymore.
2019-08-15T20:41:22 < salcedo> i recently had to buy a mini B because i had thrown them away over the years
2019-08-15T20:41:38 < salcedo> and didn't realize bus pirate had mini B
2019-08-15T20:41:54 < salcedo> also - i don't know of anywhere around here that sells them.
2019-08-15T20:42:08 < salcedo> could only find usb micro b cables or type C
2019-08-15T20:43:06 < karlp> it's almost like minib is deprecated due to design fail
2019-08-15T20:43:40 < karlp> RocketScientist: I gathered it was "protecting the battery" but... with what, 20 parallel of the same part? whare are you doing?
2019-08-15T20:44:10 < Cracki> RocketScientist, why would mini-b carry more current? is that specified somewhere?
2019-08-15T20:45:03 < RocketScientist> karlp: to get 48A peak limit in total, hell yes you need such cound of FETs
2019-08-15T20:46:14 < RocketScientist> Cracki: in connectors datasheet, you can take any from Digikey, all of Mini has higher current than Micro (unless some weird $50 connector)
2019-08-15T20:46:15 < Cracki> waaaait what is supposed to draw 48 amps?
2019-08-15T20:47:18 < Cracki> then your problem would be finding mini-B cables that can carry the current
2019-08-15T20:47:37 < Cracki> demand drops beyond 2A
2019-08-15T20:49:29 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dAys7a3dhQ
2019-08-15T20:49:40 < Cracki> that pcb leaves questions. those mosfets have 5a max continuous drain current
2019-08-15T20:50:04 < Cracki> there are mosfets with better specs but then you'd have to design for a heat sink (or at least use the copper area for one)
2019-08-15T20:50:53 < Cracki> kakimir, another Leap Forward?
2019-08-15T20:51:19 < kakimir> just the biggest plan ever
2019-08-15T20:51:23 < Cracki> cat vs melon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CUl9g9boa8
2019-08-15T20:51:57 < kakimir> so sexy
2019-08-15T20:52:52 < kakimir> moped ride>
2019-08-15T21:07:50 < Cracki> we have an optical inspection company in town. earlier this year they had a little visitors' day for students, about a dozen showed up. the chinese one seemed suspicious.
2019-08-15T21:08:52 < Cracki> they were squirrely about their "secret sauces" but pretty much all of it is common sense if you know the fundamentals
2019-08-15T21:13:15 < mawk> I found fake chemical snus
2019-08-15T21:13:21 < mawk> you tried that kakimir ? "lyft"
2019-08-15T21:13:32 < mawk> it's a white powder inside, but it has the usual tobacco taste
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2019-08-15T21:49:31 < bitmask> mmm stroopwaffel
2019-08-15T21:51:45 < catphish> where?
2019-08-15T21:52:26 < bitmask> mcdonalds
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2019-08-15T22:00:48 < catphish> sounds good, bring me one
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2019-08-15T22:24:13 < Steffanx> Its waffle mixed in ice. So bad.
2019-08-15T22:24:20 < Steffanx> One need pure stroopwaffle
2019-08-15T22:26:03 < bitmask> icecream makes everything better
2019-08-15T22:30:16 < bitmask> turns out all I had to do was increase my travel speed for my printer and it solved all my problems
2019-08-15T22:30:43 < bitmask> so much less stringing and blobs
2019-08-15T22:44:01 < Steffanx> lies.
2019-08-15T22:44:08 < Steffanx> @ ice
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2019-08-15T23:39:37 < Steffanx> Good morning
2019-08-15T23:39:52 < englishman> hi
2019-08-15T23:40:38 < jly> hi sir
2019-08-15T23:40:38 < englishman> signed up for a stm32g4 seminar
2019-08-15T23:41:14 < qyx> is g4 awesome enough to bother with?
2019-08-15T23:41:25 < englishman> idk yet I haven't taken the seminar
2019-08-15T23:43:21 < jly> we loved it!!
2019-08-15T23:45:10 < Steffanx> Will you go to msp430 seminars too englishman?
2019-08-15T23:45:54 < englishman> lol
2019-08-15T23:46:20 < englishman> a whole seminar to explain their garbage fucking serial peripheral
2019-08-15T23:47:32 < Steffanx> Should try microchip sam stuff. One peripheral for all. (i2c, spi, uart...) it's a pain.
2019-08-15T23:47:50 < qyx> yoummean the flexcomm?
2019-08-15T23:48:00 < Steffanx> sercom
2019-08-15T23:53:43 < kakimir> hello night
--- Day changed Fri Aug 16 2019
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2019-08-16T00:04:25 < Steffanx> Hello mr moped
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2019-08-16T00:04:49 < kakimir> I did moped shower
2019-08-16T00:05:13 < Steffanx> Is that like a  baby shower?
2019-08-16T00:06:00 < PaulFertser> I never wash my motor bike. Only certain specific parts when I'm working on repairs.
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2019-08-16T00:07:24 < Steffanx> What kind of bike do you have?
2019-08-16T00:12:25 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: Yamaha YBR-125 2008
2019-08-16T00:18:50 < kakimir> moped shower is riding in rain
2019-08-16T00:20:09 < PaulFertser> Haha, that I do often enough.
2019-08-16T00:24:48 < karlp> man, kicad is going "Symbol C not found in any library or cache"
2019-08-16T00:24:56 < karlp> super busted.
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2019-08-16T00:30:13 < salcedo> similar thing happened to me when i started screwing around with the global libraries
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2019-08-16T00:41:54 < karlp> swhat I get for running the rolling nightlies :)
2019-08-16T00:43:44 < kakimir> night lies
2019-08-16T00:45:00 < qyx> are you using C? not C_small?
2019-08-16T00:45:30 < kakimir> check them paths
2019-08-16T00:45:50 < kakimir> and these /
2019-08-16T00:45:52 < kakimir> \
2019-08-16T00:45:57 < kakimir> need to be right way
2019-08-16T00:48:22 < kakimir> those can be right way as wrong way for underlying operating system standard
2019-08-16T00:52:14 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@140.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-16T00:52:31 < Laurenceb> muh heritage
2019-08-16T00:54:16 < Laurenceb> today a muslima wearing a burka gave me £7 worth of free shit
2019-08-16T00:54:25 < Laurenceb> I should grow a beard more often
2019-08-16T00:57:12 < kakimir> when will you have muslim girlfriend?
2019-08-16T00:57:54 -!- fenugrec_ [~fenugrec@132.203.16.29] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-16T01:00:07 < Cracki> sandals are a marriage aid
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2019-08-16T01:00:41 < kakimir> sandals with socks
2019-08-16T01:00:47 < kakimir> my style
2019-08-16T01:00:59 < Cracki> sandal in hand
2019-08-16T01:02:01 < kakimir> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socks_and_sandals#/media/File:BLW_Pair_of_socks.jpg shieet I need
2019-08-16T01:02:40 < Cracki> 300-499 AD, yeah right
2019-08-16T01:03:10 < karlp> qyx: doesn't matter, had to change C to Device:C .... sort of thign for.... everything :)
2019-08-16T01:03:56 < Cracki> do I buy a 24V 10A power supply on aliexpress, or on ebay, which sells the same but denying it's from china? :>
2019-08-16T01:12:36 < jly> Cracki: why not EEVblog it
2019-08-16T01:13:04 < Cracki> I don't need 1.21 jiggerwats
2019-08-16T01:13:28 < jly> i was thinking closer to 240 watts
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2019-08-16T01:23:41 < Laurenceb> wtf slashdot b& anon
2019-08-16T01:23:47 < Laurenceb> the internet is dying
2019-08-16T01:24:03 < Cracki> you mean getting murdered
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2019-08-16T01:32:45 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45824.1320
2019-08-16T01:32:55 < Laurenceb> inb4 that becomes the new qanon board
2019-08-16T01:33:01 < Laurenceb> I bet they are all qanoners
2019-08-16T01:33:07 < Laurenceb> qoomers
2019-08-16T01:33:23 < Cracki> millennium style quote towers
2019-08-16T01:34:06 < Laurenceb> >	Janus Cosmological Model & FTL travel (and how to introduce negative mass in GR)
2019-08-16T01:34:10 < Laurenceb> my orbital sides
2019-08-16T01:34:47 < Laurenceb> the physics equivalent of SJW word salads
2019-08-16T01:35:24 < Laurenceb> I'll quantise ur inertia
2019-08-16T01:35:40 < Laurenceb> what if you sexually identify as an emdive?
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2019-08-16T01:50:50 < jly> welcome Laurenceb 
2019-08-16T01:53:05 < johntramp> memory being modified without triggering a data breakpoint must be DMA ??
2019-08-16T01:54:11 < Laurenceb> the STORM is coming
2019-08-16T01:54:21 < Laurenceb> W1GWAG
2019-08-16T01:55:55 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9qv8RSreIM
2019-08-16T01:59:49 < Laurenceb> keeek these guys
2019-08-16T01:59:50 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=27151.100
2019-08-16T02:02:49 < mawk> maybe yes johntramp 
2019-08-16T02:05:01 < Laurenceb> https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2017/09/reptilian-grey-illuminatus-jew-american-hamburger-1024x4911.png
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2019-08-16T02:11:16 < Laurenceb> wtf are JP aerospace even trying to do
2019-08-16T02:11:35 < Laurenceb> this is literal insanity, and not the good sort
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2019-08-16T02:18:25 < mawk> why is it on times of israel cdn Laurenceb ?
2019-08-16T02:19:35 < Cracki> maybe bibi's son posted it on his facebook page
2019-08-16T02:19:43 < Cracki> looks like something he'd post
2019-08-16T02:20:45 < Cracki> bingo https://www.timesofisrael.com/alien-reptile-and-cloaked-figure-in-yair-netanyahus-meme-have-old-new-origins/
2019-08-16T02:21:09 < mawk> lol
2019-08-16T02:21:14 < mawk> I thought you were joking
2019-08-16T02:22:17 < Cracki> you must be new here
2019-08-16T02:25:08 < jadew> what's a good country to move to?
2019-08-16T02:25:27 < mawk> netherlands
2019-08-16T02:25:33 < mawk> countryside france
2019-08-16T02:27:19 < Cracki> poland, hungary? dutchland still looks good
2019-08-16T02:28:03 < Cracki> bavaria, if they finally declare their own nation
2019-08-16T02:28:20 < Cracki> romania sounds good? :P
2019-08-16T02:28:30 < jadew> not really
2019-08-16T02:28:42 < jadew> the system is set up against businesses
2019-08-16T02:28:44 < Cracki> you could make a fortune with a decent parcel delivery business
2019-08-16T02:29:03 < jadew> that's what pissed me off this time
2019-08-16T02:29:11 < jadew> I sent a package to a customer, yesterday
2019-08-16T02:29:26 < Cracki> customs official wants his palms greased?
2019-08-16T02:29:37 < jadew> and it's still stuck in customs because state employees have Tuesday and Friday off
2019-08-16T02:29:55 < jadew> while everyone else works
2019-08-16T02:29:56 < Cracki> (because customs takes their cut even when shit doesn't leave the country)
2019-08-16T02:30:01 < Cracki> hah
2019-08-16T02:30:03 < Cracki> wtf
2019-08-16T02:30:20 < Cracki> so they have a 3-day work week?
2019-08-16T02:30:23 < jadew> so there's a chance that my delivery will be delayed 5 freaking days because of this
2019-08-16T02:30:31 < jadew> cuz obviously, after Friday it's the weekend
2019-08-16T02:30:43 < Cracki> excellent
2019-08-16T02:30:43 < jadew> Cracki, just this week
2019-08-16T02:31:06 < jadew> but still a major inconvenient
2019-08-16T02:31:39 < jadew> not to mention it was freaking expensive, through regular post
2019-08-16T02:32:23 < Cracki> why are there no private import/export/logistics companies?
2019-08-16T02:32:40 < jadew> there are, but they cost a a lot more
2019-08-16T02:32:42 < Cracki> why does that look like it's still communism?
2019-08-16T02:33:20 < jadew> well, guess who came up with this?
2019-08-16T02:33:30 < jadew> the ministry of work and social fucking justice
2019-08-16T02:33:35 < Cracki> kek
2019-08-16T02:34:23 < Cracki> definitely check out hungary or poland. I hear they are a little more sensible with their social programs.
2019-08-16T02:34:46 < jadew> I don't mind social programs, I just don't want them abused
2019-08-16T02:35:09 < jadew> and I don't want my own country to work against my business
2019-08-16T02:47:09 < jadew> I have to learn to deal with this crap, it's getting me worked up
2019-08-16T02:49:12 < jadew> have to brithen my day
2019-08-16T02:50:57 < Cracki> trade associations. maybe they know loopholes.
2019-08-16T02:51:26 < jadew> don't know what those are
2019-08-16T02:52:23 < mawk> uh just forget france then
2019-08-16T02:52:34 < mawk> NL, luxembourg, could be options
2019-08-16T02:53:03 < jadew> somewhere with fewest state employees
2019-08-16T02:53:45 < jadew> either that, or somewhere where they're actually qualified and willing to do their jobs
2019-08-16T02:55:34 < mawk> yeah, not france
2019-08-16T02:55:50 < jadew> postal workers are actually working, so this is not directed to them
2019-08-16T02:56:05 < jadew> the system is at fault in this case
2019-08-16T02:58:51 < jadew> I'm this | | close to giving all this hardware stuff up and just go back to software
2019-08-16T02:59:51 < mawk> :(
2019-08-16T02:59:57 < mawk> don't abandon
2019-08-16T03:00:10 < mawk> do it in gradual changes if you need to, so that you can go back whenever
2019-08-16T03:00:31 < jadew> it's just that it takes so long to make anything
2019-08-16T03:01:14 < jadew> with 1 month space between iterrations is very difficult to get anything done right
2019-08-16T03:02:13 < jadew> and I don't think I've had any PCB deliveries lately that didn't cost $100 or thereabout after delivery and taxes
2019-08-16T03:02:35 < jadew> with software even if you buy something, it's going to be available within seconds
2019-08-16T03:05:07 < jadew> then there's china
2019-08-16T03:05:37 < jadew> they completely ruin the market with cheap prices
2019-08-16T03:06:10 < jadew> even if their stuff is garbage, it's enough for most people and that means the market is screwed
2019-08-16T03:06:14 < jadew> kind of like opensource
2019-08-16T03:06:59 < Cracki> just because they can't ask money for their quality doesn't mean that quality isn't getting paid anymore
2019-08-16T03:07:29 < Cracki> high tech still isn't designed in china, it's maybe made in china
2019-08-16T03:08:05 < Cracki> you don't compete with china, you don't make simple and easy things
2019-08-16T03:08:37 < jadew> Cracki, I'm probably in the wrong market and I have a feeling these products that I made are confusing from that point of view
2019-08-16T03:08:50 < Cracki> maybe
2019-08-16T03:09:44 < Cracki> take weeklong trips every few months, outside the country, somewhere you can iterate quickly?
2019-08-16T03:10:09 < jadew> I'd have to have a lab there too...
2019-08-16T03:10:24 < Cracki> that might be doable
2019-08-16T03:10:45 < jadew> how?
2019-08-16T03:10:50 < Cracki> someone here talked about some university offshoot tech park where people can book time and space and gear
2019-08-16T03:11:04 < jadew> interesting
2019-08-16T03:11:07 < Cracki> that could have been norway, but I would think similar things can be had elsewhere
2019-08-16T03:11:16 < Laurenceb> holy shit
2019-08-16T03:11:28 < jadew> oh, so you're not talking going to china... yeah, not a bad idea
2019-08-16T03:11:33 < Cracki> kinda like a makerspace, but with real gear
2019-08-16T03:11:36 < Laurenceb> JP aerospace are building an MHD thruster powered by a MHD generator
2019-08-16T03:11:36 < Cracki> china would be an option too
2019-08-16T03:11:41 < Laurenceb> I cant even right now
2019-08-16T03:11:45 < jadew> sweden could be good too, they have sweden post in china, no?
2019-08-16T03:11:52 < Cracki> they'll treat you like a king if you throw whatever european money you have at them
2019-08-16T03:12:15 < Cracki> careful with sweden, I hear you get a hand grenade explosion daily
2019-08-16T03:12:28 < specing> I just thought
2019-08-16T03:12:36 < jadew> Cracki, I don't go out much, so the odds of me getting it are slim to none
2019-08-16T03:12:37 < specing> what if USA gave spacex the military budget
2019-08-16T03:12:43 < Cracki> :P
2019-08-16T03:12:47 < specing> we'd have a martian colony by 2030
2019-08-16T03:12:56 < specing> not an outpost, a full colony
2019-08-16T03:13:15 < jadew> specing, and we'd learn about it in 2300
2019-08-16T03:13:22 < Cracki> must be a place where you get PCBs made overnight or something
2019-08-16T03:13:22 < specing> why
2019-08-16T03:13:45 < Cracki> also a place where you can get parts in your hands right away
2019-08-16T03:14:09 < jadew> Cracki, the stores here don't stock my crap
2019-08-16T03:14:17 < Laurenceb> keeek the comments
2019-08-16T03:14:22 < Cracki> murica, thanks to its directive to establish a permanent moon base, will certainly blab about any achievements
2019-08-16T03:14:28 < Laurenceb> >I never quite understood how this thing is supposed to work.
2019-08-16T03:14:33 < Cracki> if they think there's value in a mars base, they'll go for that too
2019-08-16T03:15:00 < Cracki> jadew, that's why shenzhen or other international "startup" places
2019-08-16T03:15:24 < Cracki> I'm sure there must be ways for you to have a company elsewhere, but conduct business from your home
2019-08-16T03:15:49 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, it's an intriguing idea
2019-08-16T03:16:13 < Cracki> like planning new designs at home, iterating in some lab somewhere, then having the chinese assemble them, and ship them at your command directly to customers
2019-08-16T03:16:40 < jadew> ah, I can't have the chinese assemble them
2019-08-16T03:16:47 < Cracki> owo "techhub bucharest"
2019-08-16T03:16:52 < Cracki> looks hipstery
2019-08-16T03:16:59 < Cracki> they'll do software and nothing else I'm sure
2019-08-16T03:17:03 < Cracki> you can't?
2019-08-16T03:17:03 < jadew> lol, let me google it
2019-08-16T03:17:05 < Laurenceb> clearly we need JP aerospace to make a mars base
2019-08-16T03:17:23 < Cracki> you can have indians assemble it but then it'll have the quality of a carpet
2019-08-16T03:17:29 < Laurenceb> with a motor powered generator
2019-08-16T03:17:34 < Cracki> and bits of child fingers mashed in between
2019-08-16T03:17:46 < Laurenceb> perpetual emdrive
2019-08-16T03:18:09 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, that techhub thing seems to be software only
2019-08-16T03:18:09 < Cracki> some people in here talked about doing PCBA... and they weren't all chinese, so maybe that's an option too
2019-08-16T03:18:58 < Cracki> random result https://www.romania-insider.com/accelerators-incubators-romania-2018
2019-08-16T03:19:33 < specing> if you order in romania, they'll even deliver them in a 50 yo van
2019-08-16T03:20:11 < Cracki> trade associations were usually the ones helping you with contacts to other businesses (pcb, pcba, parts, ...)
2019-08-16T03:21:10 < Cracki> university contacts seem valuable too. to compete internationally, they have to have these facilities themselves or know who can do it
2019-08-16T03:22:35 < Cracki> there's a pcb maker in bucharest, dunno if they do it themselves or outsource to china
2019-08-16T03:22:43 < jadew> who?
2019-08-16T03:22:48 < Cracki> https://www.pcbdirectory.com/manufacturer/profile/pc-boards-sa
2019-08-16T03:23:18 < Cracki> only result on that site for romania, so they might have a monopoly and be expensive, but eh
2019-08-16T03:23:55 < Cracki> oh, they have an english website! looks a little outdated but who cares
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2019-08-16T03:24:20 < Cracki> lol they'll have serious gear, if that's to be believed http://www.pcboards.ro/indexen.htm?utm_source=pcbdirectory
2019-08-16T03:24:21 < jadew> I knew about others, didn't know about them
2019-08-16T03:24:25 < jadew> I'll have to give them a call
2019-08-16T03:25:00 < Cracki> in case they don't do pooling, you could cajole them into opening that up, or find a poor soul who'd handle that
2019-08-16T03:25:58 < Cracki> hmhm, I don't see minimum quantities so far, looks promising
2019-08-16T03:26:28 < Cracki> 0.2mm / 8 mil traces, that's ok
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2019-08-16T03:27:26 < jadew> I'm surprised I haven't found them before, I'll deffinitely give them a call
2019-08-16T03:27:39 < Cracki> do ask them where their customers source components
2019-08-16T03:27:59 < Cracki> I saw some customers that looked like university departments. they might hand out info for free as well
2019-08-16T03:28:00 < jadew> I know all the shops around
2019-08-16T03:28:03 < Cracki> eheheh
2019-08-16T03:28:04 < jadew> they don't have what I need
2019-08-16T03:28:13 < Cracki> maybe the uni knows where to get the good stuff
2019-08-16T03:28:21 < jadew> yeah, mouser :P
2019-08-16T03:28:47 < jadew> sometimes not even them
2019-08-16T03:29:02 < jadew> actually quite often... hehe
2019-08-16T03:29:42 < Cracki> I don't envy you
2019-08-16T03:30:04 < Cracki> either mouser is shit or your problem would exist no matter where you'd work
2019-08-16T03:31:15 < Cracki> I might ask what problems digikey.ro has but I guess that's import-tax-related again
2019-08-16T03:31:21 < jadew> yep
2019-08-16T03:31:33 < jadew> also I think it's more expensive usually
2019-08-16T03:31:43 < jadew> I got burned recently with mouser too
2019-08-16T03:32:00 < jadew> they increased the price of a component by %25 and I didn't realize
2019-08-16T03:32:51 < jadew> I think they have an automated thing that punishes me for keeping stuff in my cart for too long
2019-08-16T03:32:58 < Cracki> lol
2019-08-16T03:33:28 < Cracki> or they change prices so much that you end up with particular part numbers that were bumped, while a comparable one would be the cheapest *today*
2019-08-16T03:33:47 < jadew> yeah, that's probably what happens
2019-08-16T03:33:58 < Cracki> I see that on amazon, aliex, ebay... sellers adjust prices all the time
2019-08-16T03:34:06 < jadew> after I realized what I've done I checked previous invoices and all prices were different :)
2019-08-16T03:34:24 < jadew> granted, I bought it at 1-2 months intervals
2019-08-16T03:34:49 < jadew> Cracki, yeah, but in the case of mouser it's probably automated
2019-08-16T03:34:58 < jadew> there's some strategy there for sure
2019-08-16T03:35:54 < jadew> overall tho, I find mouser to be the cheapest and I always hit the threshold for free shipping, even with small orders
2019-08-16T03:36:24 < Cracki> :)
2019-08-16T03:36:58 < jadew> I like free shipping :)
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2019-08-16T04:03:03 < kakimir> "free"
2019-08-16T04:04:07 < Cracki> inb4 libre shipping
2019-08-16T04:06:36 < Cracki> today I re-learned what I learned back in 2014: usb webcams, when they are asked to run in parallel on the same controller, get less data rate. that means either compression or reduction in resolution
2019-08-16T04:07:06 < Cracki> seems to happen even when I have them both (usb2) on a usb3 hub
2019-08-16T04:12:59 < salcedo> hrm unable to track postlink
2019-08-16T04:13:19 < salcedo> thought i used this shipping method last time and was able to track it
2019-08-16T04:13:47 < salcedo> china china china y u do dis
2019-08-16T04:15:59 < Cracki> got something where they put another label on top of the first one, and only gave me the number of the first label
2019-08-16T04:16:43 < Cracki> dunno what's up with that, top label looks chinese as well do it's prolly not from my country's customs and carrier
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2019-08-16T10:39:25 < PaulFertser> Cracki: the limit might be inside the kernel UVC driver, as it somehow computes the bandwidth and that uses some assumption and inaccurate (from webcam usb descriptor probably) data.
2019-08-16T10:39:33 < PaulFertser> But there's a driver option to override that IIRC.
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2019-08-16T11:40:10 < Thorn> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32910196722.html
2019-08-16T11:49:29 < PaulFertser> Why did aliexpress change their "messages" system to some useless "chat" which doesn't even send notification emails?
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2019-08-16T12:15:10 < kakimir> spam?
2019-08-16T13:55:08 < Cracki> PaulFertser, interesting. I'll keep that in mind! sounds like that might resolve itself when I finally upgrade that box from win7 :P
2019-08-16T13:56:36 < Cracki> Thorn, how do you find these things? I googled made in germany and some of that might not make it through customs
2019-08-16T13:58:59 < Thorn> this particular one appeared in suggestions in the 'product added to cart' popup
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2019-08-16T16:03:06 < karlp> alos, usb2 devices on a usb3 hib dont get fulls usb2js eacj, its just anusb2 hun insode as well.
2019-08-16T16:08:26 < rajkosto> yes the usb2 and usb3 portions of a usb3 hub are completely independent
2019-08-16T16:11:52 < rajkosto> also the first usb2 hubs didnt have buffers for FS traffic, etc
2019-08-16T16:12:13 < rajkosto> but since FS and HS go over the same pins eventually the FS buffers appeared and you could multiplex multiple FS onto HS
2019-08-16T16:12:40 < rajkosto> cant happen for usb3 though since of the completely different on-wire protocol
2019-08-16T16:13:27 < jpa-> i hope that karlp's message was heavily typoed, otherwise i don't know half the words there :P
2019-08-16T16:13:34 < rajkosto> looks like a mobile post
2019-08-16T16:13:37 < mawk> or heavily boozed jpa- 
2019-08-16T16:14:08 < jpa-> i wonder what icelanders drink, apparently greenlanders make their booze out of seagulls
2019-08-16T16:14:13 < mawk> lol
2019-08-16T16:23:55 < jadew> lol jpa-
2019-08-16T16:24:00 < jadew> you seem in a good mood lately
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2019-08-16T16:24:30 < jpa-> it's been better
2019-08-16T16:25:26 < karlp> yar, mobile
2019-08-16T16:25:35 < karlp> waiting on xray results
2019-08-16T16:27:10 < mawk> for your teeth ?
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2019-08-16T16:40:13 < aandrew> yay, stm32f7 ethernet up on my board
2019-08-16T16:40:43 < karlp> teeth?
2019-08-16T16:41:05 < karlp> aandrew:what eas wrong?
2019-08-16T16:41:29 < aandrew> wasn't an stm32 issue at all. wasn't a timing closure issue either. My mii-rmii bridge HDL was broken. I was driving rmii from a 50MHz clock generated by the FPGA PLL, and the mii side from a 25MHz clock generated by the same PLL. There was some goofy phase relationship between them
2019-08-16T16:41:43 < aandrew> when I generated the MII clock in the bridge it works great
2019-08-16T16:42:15 < aandrew> although I don't like the solution I have because I'm driving the entire mii MAC from a logic-generated clock
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2019-08-16T17:01:28 < karlp> why does that matter?
2019-08-16T17:01:40 < karlp> bugfree amirite
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2019-08-16T18:01:27 < Cracki> >goofy phase relationship
2019-08-16T18:02:03 < Cracki> tyvm for sharing the root cause. I haven't touched fpgas in 10 years but it's nice to learn by osmosis
2019-08-16T18:02:27 < Cracki> ok I last touched one a few years ago but didn't do anything with it
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2019-08-16T18:59:54 < aandrew> someone give me teh +o to ban that user for a while
2019-08-16T19:00:13 < aandrew> Cracki: no worries, I learn by osmosis as well
2019-08-16T19:00:17 < aandrew> that's why I idle on IRC so much
2019-08-16T19:00:37 < aandrew> karlp: why does what matter
2019-08-16T19:01:02 < karlp> what's wrong with a logic clock?
2019-08-16T19:10:04 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o aandrew] by ChanServ
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2019-08-16T19:24:52 < Laurenceb> the absolute state of muh wifi
2019-08-16T19:25:24 < Laurenceb> keek I think they might have realised that its bullshit https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=27151.100
2019-08-16T19:27:19 < Cracki> who'd you wanna ban? someone who joins and parts (because I don't see those unless they talk)?
2019-08-16T19:30:50 < salcedo> you and your fancy irc client that hides joins/parts
2019-08-16T19:31:53 < Cracki> it's not fancy, it's just programmable
2019-08-16T19:32:04 < Cracki> and as all decent good things, unmaintained
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2019-08-16T19:32:40 < Cracki> I just realized, I like prgrammable over fancy in *people* as well.
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2019-08-16T19:32:58 < salcedo> need to figure out how to 256-color my tmux
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2019-08-16T19:33:13 < salcedo> the tmuxline colors don't match my vim-airline
2019-08-16T19:33:16 < salcedo> #neckbeardprobs
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2019-08-16T19:41:50 < Mangy_Dog> RetroHID:153:55: error: invalid operands of types 'float' and 'int' to binary 'operator%'
2019-08-16T19:41:50 < Mangy_Dog>  uint8_t div =(int)(ledbright / 16 * (battlevel % 6));
2019-08-16T19:42:03 < Mangy_Dog> whats causing this error?
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2019-08-16T19:42:10 < Mangy_Dog> I know im trying to cast a float into an int
2019-08-16T19:42:15 < Mangy_Dog> well a int 8 in this case
2019-08-16T19:42:24 < Mangy_Dog> but it should be truncating the number?
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2019-08-16T19:42:31 < Cracki> wat is batlevel
2019-08-16T19:42:37 < Cracki> is it a class? or just a float?
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2019-08-16T19:42:50 < Mangy_Dog> a float variable
2019-08-16T19:42:50 < Cracki> I'm not sure C knows how to % floats, it needs fmod or something like that
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2019-08-16T19:42:59 < Cracki> better look that up, might be the cause
2019-08-16T19:43:05 < Mangy_Dog> tbh
2019-08-16T19:43:12 < Mangy_Dog> batlevel doesnt need to be float
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2019-08-16T19:43:17 < Mangy_Dog> not really
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2019-08-16T19:43:26 < Mangy_Dog> as 0-100 is all the accuracy i need for that var
2019-08-16T19:43:27 < Cracki> bool is good enough
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2019-08-16T19:44:09 < Cracki> use reinterpret_casts to hide bits in wrongly typed variables
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2019-08-16T19:44:43 < Cracki> people will think you've come up with the next InvSqrt
2019-08-16T19:45:10 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2019-08-16T19:46:55 < Cracki> q3a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_inverse_square_root
2019-08-16T19:48:16 < Mangy_Dog> ohh actually reading that rings a bell
2019-08-16T19:48:30 < Cracki> click "pavlov"
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2019-08-16T20:10:25 < Laurenceb> OH YEAH
2019-08-16T20:10:34 < Laurenceb> I'm out of a jerb by December
2019-08-16T20:10:47 < Laurenceb> babbyshake is doa
2019-08-16T20:14:11 < Cracki> oh noes wat r u gonna do now
2019-08-16T20:14:30 < Cracki> maybe the same tech can be dual-used in teledildonics
2019-08-16T20:14:50 < Laurenceb> yeah
2019-08-16T20:15:06 < Laurenceb> maybe I could write a babbyshake memoir 
2019-08-16T20:15:25 < Cracki> so I'm inplace upgrading some win7 box to win10. wish me luck. I'd rather not install it fresh :S
2019-08-16T20:15:40 < Laurenceb> I just repaired my 2005 laptop
2019-08-16T20:15:53 < Cracki> it's just a video editing box but these cheapasses still run on video editing software vom 2012/2013
2019-08-16T20:15:54 < Laurenceb> it can still boot winxp
2019-08-16T20:16:11 < Cracki> and the setup DVDs (!) are probably gone by now
2019-08-16T20:16:21 < Cracki> wxp was a good system
2019-08-16T20:16:51 < Laurenceb> nothing wrong with dvd
2019-08-16T20:16:55 < Cracki> nt 5 aesthetic was peak
2019-08-16T20:17:26 < Laurenceb> turned out screen data connector had fallen out on my 2005 laptop
2019-08-16T20:17:43 < Cracki> tools! their upgrade tool says language not supported
2019-08-16T20:17:55 < Laurenceb> maybe I could get a jerb at the sex club down my road
2019-08-16T20:18:18 < Laurenceb> wipe the leather seats every evening
2019-08-16T20:18:40 < Laurenceb> lots of jerb round here /s
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2019-08-16T20:18:49 < Thorn> https://www.reddit.com/r/engrish/comments/cr8tcz/everyone_in_wyoming_now_has_aids/
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2019-08-16T20:19:30 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40975.140
2019-08-16T20:19:35 < Laurenceb> >3d printed tanks
2019-08-16T20:19:39 < Laurenceb> I cant even right now
2019-08-16T20:19:44 < Cracki> cheer up you're still in a better situation than 90% of the population. you could keep dicking around in academia, or hit up some companies
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2019-08-16T20:20:44 < jpa-> Thorn: still better to be in wyoming than in shandong
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2019-08-16T20:20:59 < Laurenceb> >murica
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2019-08-16T20:33:35 <@aandrew> karlp: generally speaking you don't want to clock logic with logic. the structure of the FPGA isn't set up for it and it also introduces jitter
2019-08-16T20:33:52 <@aandrew> Cracki: just to shut them up until they fix their client
2019-08-16T20:34:03 < jadew> aandrew, you forgot to ban that guy
2019-08-16T20:34:32 -!- mode/##stm32 [+b *!*@157.45.38.123] by aandrew
2019-08-16T20:34:44 <@aandrew> yeah got called to lunch :-)
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2019-08-16T20:42:34  * Laurenceb checks local jerbs
2019-08-16T20:42:41 < Laurenceb> >javascript developer
2019-08-16T20:42:45 < Laurenceb> my orbital sides
2019-08-16T20:44:33 < salcedo> "my orbital sides!"
2019-08-16T20:44:52 < salcedo> i'm going to put // My Orbital Sides in this javascript code rn
2019-08-16T20:48:41 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@140.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-08-16T20:49:10 < Cracki> when looking for jobs that aren't web fuckery, ignore stackoverflow's job board and try linkedin
2019-08-16T20:49:40 < Cracki> I wonder, does his alternate login see that...
2019-08-16T20:50:02 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@140.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-16T20:51:35 < Laurenceb> arg muh wifi
2019-08-16T20:51:35 < Laurenceb> >.NET, ASP.NET MVC, C# and SQL Server. You'll receive expert training on the latest technologies including: .NET Core, Angular 6, Web API 2, Microservices, Azure, TDD, BDD, NoSQL, JQuery and Node.JS.
2019-08-16T20:51:38  * Laurenceb kills himself
2019-08-16T20:52:13 < salcedo> but microservices
2019-08-16T20:52:23 < Laurenceb> >There is no 'I' in team. By working with talented individuals and developing upon innovative ideas, the team continues to succeed
2019-08-16T20:52:23 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2019-08-16T20:52:51 < Laurenceb> salary 28k
2019-08-16T20:52:55 < Laurenceb> they are taking the piss
2019-08-16T20:53:06 < salcedo> if they have to point that out, that must mean they're having issues retaining "team players"
2019-08-16T20:53:14 < salcedo> maybe it's because their salaries are shit.
2019-08-16T20:53:51 < salcedo> that's gotta be a listing for a senior software engineer position too i bet
2019-08-16T20:54:04 < Laurenceb> >Node.JS  Analyst Programmer
2019-08-16T20:54:09 < salcedo> because all senior level are making $28k right?
2019-08-16T20:54:16 < salcedo> $28k is fair.
2019-08-16T20:54:17 < Laurenceb> wonder if we will see a javascript bubble
2019-08-16T20:54:49 < salcedo> nah
2019-08-16T20:55:39 < salcedo> we might have another recession coming up - which might deflate some of these high paying buzzword salaries
2019-08-16T20:55:44 < salcedo> like devops
2019-08-16T20:56:52 < salcedo> recession... credit tightens up... people who have established careers in buzzword fields start getting nervous. some get let go. they'll take anything to maintain their status quo - which means taking a pay cut.
2019-08-16T20:57:18 < salcedo> fast forward 10 years into the "recovery" and they're still making the recession wages.
2019-08-16T20:57:22 < salcedo> and by then it's the new norm.
2019-08-16T20:57:46 < salcedo> but there will always be newer buzzwords!
2019-08-16T20:58:05 < salcedo> the ever-flowing river of webshit
2019-08-16T20:58:54 < jadew> programming is never going to be well paid again
2019-08-16T20:59:30 <@aandrew> I don't know, I'm paid pretty good to program
2019-08-16T21:00:04 < jadew> how much are you making per hour from that?
2019-08-16T21:00:22 < jadew> I'd say a good rate would be somewhere around $70
2019-08-16T21:00:33 < jadew> that's what used to ge good 10 years ago
2019-08-16T21:00:40 < jadew> maybe a bit more
2019-08-16T21:00:53 < salcedo> heh i usually charge $50-60 for what i do. i just work hella tiny amounts of hours. :)
2019-08-16T21:01:01 < jadew> now it's more like $30
2019-08-16T21:01:17 < jadew> salcedo, per hour? that's pretty good then
2019-08-16T21:02:36 < salcedo> yea it's not bad. i don't know if i would want to do it full time thuogh.
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2019-08-16T21:04:42 < salcedo> my brain is wired for taking on short term projects that interest me and also don't poke too hard at my flawed world view.
2019-08-16T21:04:59 <@aandrew> jadew: my minimum rate is quite a bit more than that
2019-08-16T21:05:11 < jadew> aandrew, that's pretty good then
2019-08-16T21:05:18 < jadew> I must be doing something very wrong
2019-08-16T21:05:24 <@aandrew> heh
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2019-08-16T21:05:28 < Cracki> different countries
2019-08-16T21:05:30 <@aandrew> not necessarily. depends on market 
2019-08-16T21:05:31 < salcedo> jadew: just charge more.
2019-08-16T21:05:40 < Cracki> romania vs aandrewland
2019-08-16T21:05:46 <@aandrew> and yes, I keep being too busy so I raise rates
2019-08-16T21:05:50 < salcedo> worst thing people are going to do is find someone who will do it for less.
2019-08-16T21:05:55 <@aandrew> aandrewland haha. canada
2019-08-16T21:06:12 < jadew> aandrew, my customers are from canada btw :)
2019-08-16T21:06:17 < salcedo> when i first started doing what i do back around 2011ish, i was afraid to charge higher rates because i thought i'd just be undercut.
2019-08-16T21:06:23 < Cracki> charge canadian rates to canadian customers
2019-08-16T21:06:36 < Cracki> they probably wonder why you're so cheap
2019-08-16T21:06:38 < salcedo> yea for real
2019-08-16T21:07:02 < jadew> they just seem like they'd rather pay less than get something well done, so lately I tend to avoid even getting jobs from them
2019-08-16T21:07:20 < salcedo> instead of avoid getting jobs from them, just raise your rates.
2019-08-16T21:07:23 < jadew> mainly because the jobs themselves end up stressing me more than it's worth it
2019-08-16T21:07:27 < Cracki> do they know that's the reason you avoid them?
2019-08-16T21:07:38 < Cracki> raise rates
2019-08-16T21:08:06 < salcedo> thinking that they'd rather pay less than get something well done is not rational unless there is evidence behind it.
2019-08-16T21:08:07 < Cracki> add 10/hour, spend it on a masseuse or something
2019-08-16T21:08:46 < jadew> I don't know how to negotiate
2019-08-16T21:08:50 < jadew> never had to
2019-08-16T21:08:53 < salcedo> you don't have to negotiate
2019-08-16T21:08:59 < salcedo> just raise your rates. they either pay it or they don't.
2019-08-16T21:09:29 < salcedo> i've had clients tell me i should increase my rates. so i did.
2019-08-16T21:09:32 <@aandrew> jadew: I find the *type* of programming is very important
2019-08-16T21:09:47 <@aandrew> jadew: embedded stuff is in high demand and if you're good you can demand $$$
2019-08-16T21:09:49 < salcedo> one client was like "people respect that you have to eat. charge what you're worth. not what you think the client thinks you're worth."
2019-08-16T21:10:04 <@aandrew> my biggest problem with working for myself is undervaluing myself
2019-08-16T21:10:29 < salcedo> jadew: i just had a huge burn out a few months ago because of this rates thing
2019-08-16T21:10:38 <@aandrew> if you're avoiding getting workkk from a customer you are *definitely* charging too little. 
2019-08-16T21:10:46 < salcedo> i had like 20 ongoing projects with clients that i undercharged considerably.
2019-08-16T21:10:47 <@aandrew> if they're annoying fucking customers you charge more for the inconvenience/hassle
2019-08-16T21:11:04 <@aandrew> if they like to play silly bugger with payments, you work on a retainer basis.
2019-08-16T21:11:09 < salcedo> it got to the point where i wasn't able to maintain basic life needs, but was working all the time.
2019-08-16T21:11:21 <@aandrew> if they want lots of onsite, you ask them to pay for travel and accomodations
2019-08-16T21:11:23 < salcedo> and just said "fuck it" and severed the relationships all on as best terms as possible.
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2019-08-16T21:11:38 < salcedo> reset the slate
2019-08-16T21:11:43 <@aandrew> there are a dozen ways to push back and what surprised me the most is that most times, they don't push back
2019-08-16T21:12:07 < salcedo> i don't take onsite jobs at all rofl
2019-08-16T21:12:12 < jadew> aandrew, nah, they do pay on time and they know I'm valuable, they were there when I got recognition from some other developers at a big company and everyone was impressed, so I have quite a bit of leverage
2019-08-16T21:12:17 <@aandrew> salcedo: I always leave it on the table because $$$
2019-08-16T21:12:31 <@aandrew> jadew: what kind of programming work
2019-08-16T21:12:34 < Cracki> their valuation of you should be expressed in money, not words
2019-08-16T21:12:49 < Cracki> use your leverage
2019-08-16T21:12:50 < salcedo> aandrew: there has to be a REALLY good offer or project going on for me to leave my poverty-stricken shithole in ohio
2019-08-16T21:12:54 < salcedo> the rent here is cheeeeeeeeap
2019-08-16T21:13:07 < Laurenceb> this jerb search is revealing
2019-08-16T21:13:17 < Laurenceb> I didnt realise people unironically used .net
2019-08-16T21:13:27 < Laurenceb> so many bullcrap brogramming jerbs
2019-08-16T21:13:28 <@aandrew> Cracki> their valuation of you should be expressed in money, not words
2019-08-16T21:13:29 <@aandrew> ^^^
2019-08-16T21:13:32 <@aandrew> that. riigiht ther.
2019-08-16T21:13:36 <@aandrew> fucking keyboard
2019-08-16T21:13:38 <@aandrew> right thereeeeeeee.
2019-08-16T21:13:40 < jadew> aandrew, serverside stuff mostly
2019-08-16T21:13:40 <@aandrew> auugh!
2019-08-16T21:13:55 < salcedo> jadew: you do remote stuff mostly on freelancing sites or w/e?
2019-08-16T21:14:03 < jadew> they have an online business, but I don't want to touch the website stuff
2019-08-16T21:14:06 <@aandrew> jadew: what is "serverside stuff" -- you doing .net/f#/java shit that there are a million people able to do?
2019-08-16T21:14:15 < jadew> salcedo, no
2019-08-16T21:14:26 < jadew> aandrew, yes
2019-08-16T21:14:39 <@aandrew> salcedo: heh I'm in Detroit right now (onsite with my son)
2019-08-16T21:14:40 < jadew> I'd do something else, but I can't find the clients
2019-08-16T21:15:04 <@aandrew> jadew: then your pay will be commensurate with their ease of ability in replacing you with someone else
2019-08-16T21:15:05 < jadew> I used to do much more interesting stuff in the past
2019-08-16T21:15:08 < mrus> could anyone here confirm that ST's advertisement of "STM32 Nucleo-32 development board with STM32L031K6 MCU, supports Arduino connectivity" is bullshit and the board/MCU does in fact not provide I2C via A5 (PA_5) (SCL) and A4 (PA_6) (SDA)?
2019-08-16T21:17:36 < Cracki> mrus, call up the data shiet for that thing?
2019-08-16T21:17:52 < mrus> Cracki: I did and it confuses me
2019-08-16T21:17:56 < Cracki> they prolly contain, or have separately, the board schematic and stuff
2019-08-16T21:18:02 < Cracki> how so
2019-08-16T21:18:10 < salcedo> grab the datasheet for the nucleo board and look at schematic to see what's hooked up to those pins?
2019-08-16T21:18:29 < mrus> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/user_manual/e3/0e/88/05/e8/74/43/a0/DM00231744.pdf/files/DM00231744.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00231744.pdf
2019-08-16T21:18:32 < mrus> Page 27
2019-08-16T21:18:43 < mrus> says PA6 is SCL
2019-08-16T21:18:49 < mrus> and PA5 is SDA
2019-08-16T21:19:17 < mrus> https://os.mbed.com/platforms/ST-Nucleo-L031K6/#microcontroller-features
2019-08-16T21:19:25 < mrus> this on the other hand does not say so
2019-08-16T21:19:40 < Cracki> does not say, or says the opposite?
2019-08-16T21:19:59 < mrus> instead it shows SDA/SCL for PB7 and PB6 or PA9/PA10
2019-08-16T21:20:08 <@aandrew> jadew: I don't know the canadian rates for server/backend dev work
2019-08-16T21:20:24 <@aandrew> but embedded, particuarly if you are experienced is easily double that
2019-08-16T21:20:26 < jadew> aandrew, I don't even enjoy that type of work
2019-08-16T21:20:38 <@aandrew> jadew: are you actively looking for more enjoyable work then?
2019-08-16T21:20:40 < jadew> I just do it because I need cash to fund my hw business
2019-08-16T21:20:52 < Cracki> answering "no" is painful, I know
2019-08-16T21:21:12 < Cracki> maybe the funding could come from hw work itself?
2019-08-16T21:21:19 < jadew> aandrew, I check freelancing sites from time to time for hw stuff, but I think they're used to indian rates
2019-08-16T21:21:28 < jadew> Cracki, that's what I'd like, yeah
2019-08-16T21:21:29 <@aandrew> yeah I gave up on that ages ago
2019-08-16T21:21:31 < Cracki> freecancering
2019-08-16T21:21:33 <@aandrew> freecancer is useless
2019-08-16T21:21:43 < salcedo> any kind of hardware shit on freelancing sites has been a disaster for me
2019-08-16T21:21:56 <@aandrew> any kind of freelancer work on those sites is disastrous
2019-08-16T21:22:06 <@aandrew> if they had a workable quoting system it'd be nice but they don't
2019-08-16T21:22:06 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@140.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2019-08-16T21:22:08 < jadew> so it's not just me
2019-08-16T21:22:37 <@aandrew> and even then you have a hundred pakis or indians saying "I'll do full dev of 'I want an IoT widget' for $5h/hr in 3 days'
2019-08-16T21:22:40 < Cracki> cold call businesses maybe
2019-08-16T21:23:04 < jadew> Cracki, what are those?
2019-08-16T21:23:05 < Cracki> drop business cards or flyers with the range of things you did and could do
2019-08-16T21:23:08 <@aandrew> Cracki: I've not had much luck there. I have got my choice contracts through oxford international or through relationships from vendors I've worked with on other projects
2019-08-16T21:23:11 < Cracki> cold call meaning call them out of the blue
2019-08-16T21:23:17 < Cracki> warm call is when they know you already
2019-08-16T21:23:41 < jadew> got it
2019-08-16T21:23:55 < Cracki> my boss keeps trolling amateur electronics web boards for work but the real projects he gets from actual companies
2019-08-16T21:24:16 < salcedo> jadew: another thing you could do is what i've been muling on for a while now... but haven't been motivated enough.
2019-08-16T21:24:19 < Cracki> OEM shit like "do this motor power driver" or "do that whole motion control stuff"
2019-08-16T21:24:24 < salcedo> start your own agency.
2019-08-16T21:24:44 < jadew> salcedo, freelancing agency?
2019-08-16T21:24:53 < salcedo> partner up with someone who does similar work and pool your clients together and refactor it into a "devops shop" or w/e.
2019-08-16T21:24:54 <@aandrew> salcedo: heh. you want to spend your days cold calling and trying to woo project managers? fuck. that.
2019-08-16T21:24:57 < salcedo> where your clients pay you a monthly retainer
2019-08-16T21:25:10 <@aandrew> salcedo: that (monthly retaineer) is the ideal
2019-08-16T21:25:12 <@aandrew> but hard to get
2019-08-16T21:25:14 < salcedo> aandrew: hell no. i jsut want to do the work because it's easy to do while i'm stoned af
2019-08-16T21:25:42 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVOaDfGOPGs
2019-08-16T21:25:55 < salcedo> if i could find someone with more business acumen than me (aka ANY business acumen), i'd be all about some sort of relationship where they find clients and i solve the problems.
2019-08-16T21:26:20 < Cracki> aandrew, so how could he bootstrap? he doesn't have oxford international
2019-08-16T21:26:56 < salcedo> w
2019-08-16T21:26:59 <@aandrew> Cracki: he could. I would happily put him in touch with my account manager.
2019-08-16T21:27:00 < salcedo> woops wrong buffer
2019-08-16T21:27:16 < Cracki> that's why I keep mentioning trade associations. they surely know the craftspeople who need something and those who can provide it
2019-08-16T21:27:34 < Cracki> jadew, sounds like some virtual handshaking is in order
2019-08-16T21:27:37 <@aandrew> but besides that, he could contact a few recruiters,t hey're always hungry. then filter the bad ones out and try to establish a few new relationships
2019-08-16T21:27:41 < jadew> aandrew, that would be cool
2019-08-16T21:27:48 <@aandrew> thing is *most* will want onsite, particuarly for embedded work
2019-08-16T21:27:56 <@aandrew> at least until you've established a relationship
2019-08-16T21:28:10 < jadew> yeah, that's usually the problem with hw work
2019-08-16T21:29:00 <@aandrew> I mean this place I'm onsite at right now -- I got the first contract with them through oxford about 8 years ago. was almost exclusively onsite (18mos driving 4h to detroit every week)
2019-08-16T21:29:25 <@aandrew> contract was originally 4mos, they sponsored my TN1 visa application. kept getting extended
2019-08-16T21:29:58 <@aandrew> moved on after the job was done and they were really happy with me, then they called me out of the blue about 16mos ago asking about my availabiltiy
2019-08-16T21:30:24 <@aandrew> this one was also supposed to be 6mos and is now almost 18 again, and is almost all offsite
2019-08-16T21:30:48 <@aandrew> it's crunchtime though and we're trying to get a bunch of different things together so all in the same room is helpful
2019-08-16T21:30:58 <@aandrew> and like I said my son is here with me, lterally beside me in the office
2019-08-16T21:32:31 <@aandrew> I have another 99.9% offsite sw dev contract in parallel with this one through a guy I worked with on a different contract
2019-08-16T21:32:41 <@aandrew> he got canned and moved to a new company and brought me on a few months after
2019-08-16T21:33:15 <@aandrew> that contract was through oxford as well, 100% onsite, and the company actually bought out my contract from oxford so they could pay me directly. never had that happen before
2019-08-16T21:33:36 <@aandrew> that was 6mos that got extended to 2.5y; original scope changed and they liked me so they brought me on to a new project
2019-08-16T21:34:20 <@aandrew> but this is what I'm getting at: if you're good and not a neckbeard the work tends to chase you
2019-08-16T21:34:41 <@aandrew> that isn't to say I haven't had dry periods. first half of 2012 I think I damn near starved
2019-08-16T21:35:26 < jadew> my problem was that I worked full time for too long and din't make any contacts
2019-08-16T21:35:50 < jadew> my linked in network is 23 contacts and I even worked directly with facebook
2019-08-16T21:35:58 <@aandrew> ended up taking a shit contract for $65/hr, onsite but even that ended up paying off extremely well because I networked with at least a dozen other engineers who all moved on (the company was not great to work for) and each one of those remembers a smart but quirky guy who could get shit figured out
2019-08-16T21:36:07 < jadew> I'm lousy at social networking
2019-08-16T21:36:39 <@aandrew> jadew: I worked 13y in industrial power; none of those contacts have given me any work in my new life
2019-08-16T21:37:16 <@aandrew> I suck at social shit, I'm just talking about not being an asshole to those around you and being willing to stick your nose in other projects and maybe offer (unsolicited) advice
2019-08-16T21:37:19 <@aandrew> that's all I really do
2019-08-16T21:38:34 <@aandrew> I attend the bbqs the comapnies offer because I like free food, but I'm not a social butterfly; I can talk to my own team members and can be friendly/shoot the shit with almost anyone but it almost never progresses beyond that; I don't make friends at work except on a very very small number of occasions
2019-08-16T21:38:42 <@aandrew> (and again with those I don't get work thorugh them, they're friends)
2019-08-16T21:38:59 <@aandrew> heh
2019-08-16T21:39:13 <@aandrew> at NDI there was some ice cream thing they were putting on and I was standing in line behind some dude I'd enver met
2019-08-16T21:39:42 <@aandrew> he asked me who I was and I said I was a contractor working on $project. then I asked him what he did at the company
2019-08-16T21:39:46 <@aandrew> "oh, I'm the CEO"
2019-08-16T21:40:00 < jadew> heh
2019-08-16T21:40:03 <@aandrew> not *friends* but he definitely knows my name
2019-08-16T21:40:24 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@140.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-16T21:40:27 < Laurenceb> keek assystem are hiring
2019-08-16T21:40:33 < Laurenceb> sounds like teledildonics
2019-08-16T21:40:44 <@aandrew> when I worked at benshaw my manager was the president of the canadian branch. we got along really well and are friends still today
2019-08-16T21:41:30 <@aandrew> when I started there I was 19. he took me along to a lot of meetings that I probably had no business being there for, but I knew to shut up and listen and I learned a lot by osmosis, most importantly how to act and talk
2019-08-16T21:41:52 <@aandrew> that's been probably the most valuable non-tech educational experience I've ever had
2019-08-16T21:42:35 <@aandrew> when they learned I could act properly in front of customers they started sending me along with the sales critters and I learned about field applications engineering. that is one of the most fun parts of my career I've ever had
2019-08-16T21:43:10 <@aandrew> I *love* doing FAE work.  sales guys are really fun to run with and as an engineer you actually *see* what customers need and how they (mis)use your equipment
2019-08-16T21:44:12 <@aandrew> sales guys loved having me along because I wasn't an weeabo brony geek and when the customer wanted to get technical I was able to ask smart questions and give them answers that gave them confidence in our company
2019-08-16T21:44:18 <@aandrew> fuck I loved being an FAE
2019-08-16T21:44:33 < salcedo> that sounds awesome
2019-08-16T21:44:39 < Cracki> oh yeah, same. chatting with customers is lots of fun. you hear their gripes.
2019-08-16T21:44:56 < Cracki> dunno if salespeople ever hear those stories
2019-08-16T21:44:57 < salcedo> i once worked for this dude who had a dying radio comms/PBX company who would do the OPPOSITE
2019-08-16T21:45:17 < jadew> yeah, I used to do that too, but I was doing just software back then
2019-08-16T21:45:27 < salcedo> he'd go to existing customers and try to upsell them on shit that they already had and was working fine
2019-08-16T21:45:50 < salcedo> then we had a tornado that knocked out a bunch of 30 year old pbxes
2019-08-16T21:46:30 < salcedo> and i ended up in 1980's pbx rabbit hole lugging around these old pieces of shit trying to sell them to existing customers like they're going to revolutionize their businesses - instead of just fixing their existing shit.
2019-08-16T21:46:35 < salcedo> it was embarrassing.
2019-08-16T21:47:24 < salcedo> after like a week of that, i switched roles from tech guy to sales guy and just started saying "hey. my boss wants to sell you this piece of shit... i can hook you up with voip. here's a list of shit to buy. i'll set it all up."
2019-08-16T21:47:34 < salcedo> and just took cash from them
2019-08-16T21:47:40 <@aandrew> oh man... I had a contract with digium writing the drivers for their B410 cards. one day I get a call out of the blue from Aircell (wifi in planes); digium recommended me becuase they had a telephony project and I knew telephony hw/sw
2019-08-16T21:47:44 <@aandrew> salcedo: nice.
2019-08-16T21:48:07 <@aandrew> my first experience with REAL PBXes was a bunch of ex-military (intelligence) israelis
2019-08-16T21:48:18 < salcedo> they're terrible
2019-08-16T21:48:23 < salcedo> like the worst things ever
2019-08-16T21:48:30 <@aandrew> in Israeil they have these communities called kibbutzes where they run all their own shit. telephone networks, power, etc.
2019-08-16T21:48:42 < salcedo> luckily this guy was a digital packrat so i was able to find almost any of the manuals/programming software
2019-08-16T21:48:51 <@aandrew> and these kibbutzes had ancient nortel PBXes running the neighbourhood exchanges
2019-08-16T21:48:52 < Laurenceb> keeek https://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/Assystem/reviews
2019-08-16T21:49:17 <@aandrew> these guys reverse-engineered the backplanes of the PBXes and replaced the brains with an FPGA and Sharc running linux
2019-08-16T21:49:18 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-16T21:49:36 < salcedo> that's pretty hardcore lol
2019-08-16T21:49:53 <@aandrew> I wrote the drivers for these things; basically 2048 timeslot digital systems
2019-08-16T21:50:22 < salcedo> america needs kibbutzes
2019-08-16T21:50:23 <@aandrew> asterisk running on it, and the device driver would pretend it was just a gigantic fucking e1
2019-08-16T21:50:55 <@aandrew> had to implement special robbed bit signalling which emulated what the old nortel CPU did so all these extensions could get call waiting and MWI and all that
2019-08-16T21:50:58 <@aandrew> it was interesting
2019-08-16T21:51:06 <@aandrew> these guys were *amazing* reverse engineers
2019-08-16T21:51:16 <@aandrew> that was 100% remote and my first ever contract
2019-08-16T21:51:36 <@aandrew> never forget those guys. wanted to go see him when I ended up going to Israel for one of the contracts I'm working on now
2019-08-16T21:52:12 < emeb> I worked w/ some folks in IL a while back. Similar experience - all very intense, hardcore. Very productive.
2019-08-16T21:52:19 <@aandrew> salcedo: good job on "psst, lemme voip you up" -- that is the way to go
2019-08-16T21:52:26 <@aandrew> yeah
2019-08-16T21:52:34 < salcedo> yea i was making like $10/hr from that place rofl
2019-08-16T21:52:37 <@aandrew> I'm willing to bet it has something to do with the fact that everyone there has military training
2019-08-16T21:52:46 <@aandrew> beats the laziness and immaturity out of you
2019-08-16T21:52:47 < emeb> could be
2019-08-16T21:53:02 < salcedo> this guy ran a radio comms/telecom shop for decades and had all the contracts in the area for ... police stations, big factories, all kinsd of stuff. ran a bunch of repeaters.
2019-08-16T21:53:09 <@aandrew> and I don't care what anyone says. jews have the best jokes
2019-08-16T21:53:20 < salcedo> his existing employees - for whatever reason - all bailed on him
2019-08-16T21:53:34 < salcedo> he hired us and would only pay $10/hr
2019-08-16T21:53:49 < salcedo> which to be fair... for just driving around reprogramming kenwood radios and shit... who cares. it's something to do.
2019-08-16T21:54:17 < salcedo> then it turned into "oh hey you're the pbx guy. you're also a sales guy. and a backend database engineer."
2019-08-16T21:54:48 < salcedo> he had this 386 running some custom inventory management software written in the early 90's
2019-08-16T21:55:13 < salcedo> all the customer data was on it... and it was terrible.
2019-08-16T21:55:43 < salcedo> all those pbx's went down and he's like "go into the database and grab their phone numbers and start calling them to find out what they need fixed."
2019-08-16T21:55:58 < salcedo> and i'm like "rofl... but their pbx's are down... how will they know we're calling?"
2019-08-16T21:56:00 < salcedo> "JUST DO IT!!!"
2019-08-16T21:56:29 < salcedo> like 90% of the customers weren't even customers anymore. they had moved on.
2019-08-16T21:56:43 < salcedo> this guy knocked peppridge farm for $1000's
2019-08-16T21:57:14 < salcedo> fcc mandated narrowbanding... this asshole charged peppridge to go on-site and re-band all the radios they were renting from him.
2019-08-16T21:57:37 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2019-08-16T21:58:14 < salcedo> i'm not a business/sales guy but if i'm peppridge farm and the company i rent comms from says an fcc rule change = i have to pay that company and lose productivity during the process ... that's not a company i want to do business with.
2019-08-16T22:10:27 -!- ekaologik [~quassel@p4FF164C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2019-08-16T22:11:12 <@aandrew> heh
2019-08-16T22:11:28 <@aandrew> no, it sounds like his earlier employees left becuase he's a douchecanoe
2019-08-16T22:15:10 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/gallery/9TPZ0
2019-08-16T22:15:17 < Laurenceb> >douchecanoe
2019-08-16T22:16:32 < emeb> awwww. cute pengui
2019-08-16T22:27:20 < Cracki> oh while we're at it... if anyone needs image processing or computer vision done, I'm available soonish
2019-08-16T22:31:31 < Laurenceb> https://www.phillyvoice.com/phub-search-red-vs-blue/
2019-08-16T22:31:35 < Laurenceb> a state of cuckoldry
2019-08-16T22:35:16 < Laurenceb> >someone said douchecanoe unironically
2019-08-16T22:35:39 < Laurenceb> inb4 someone makes use of a smegma based insult
2019-08-16T22:56:36 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2019-08-16T22:56:46 < Laurenceb> >industrial oven cleaner
2019-08-16T22:56:50 < Laurenceb> 15k
2019-08-16T22:56:59 < Laurenceb> my jerb is sorted
2019-08-16T22:57:09 < Steffanx> will it be able to shake babies?
2019-08-16T22:57:49 < Laurenceb> only if they arent burnt fully yet
2019-08-16T23:15:06 < jadew> http://86.127.196.108/stuff/demo1.jpg
2019-08-16T23:16:27 < onio> Hi I am having problem getting interrupt to trigger in SPI receive only mode using Nucleo STM32H743zi board
2019-08-16T23:16:40 < onio> any idea's ?
2019-08-16T23:17:35 < onio> I am connecting to SPI1_NSS, SPI1_SCK and SPI1_MOSI
2019-08-16T23:19:22 < Cracki> jadew, that's a lot of places. are they all real?
2019-08-16T23:19:28 < jadew> Cracki, yeah
2019-08-16T23:19:32 < Cracki> hell
2019-08-16T23:19:37 < jadew> 8 GHz with 10 mHz resolution
2019-08-16T23:19:38 < Cracki> does it measure itself?
2019-08-16T23:19:53 < jadew> no, it's measuring a signal generator
2019-08-16T23:19:58 < jadew> but they're locked to the same reference
2019-08-16T23:20:05 < Cracki> and you got both accurate to 11 places?
2019-08-16T23:20:07 < Cracki> aha!!!
2019-08-16T23:20:15 < Cracki> then that's understandable :P
2019-08-16T23:20:39 < Cracki> onio, explain moar, share moar
2019-08-16T23:22:26 -!- con3 [~con3@ml.sun.ac.za] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.9.2 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/]
2019-08-16T23:25:25 < onio> Cracki, I using the Raspberry pi as a SPI master and the STM32H743 as a slave. I have configured the pins with STM32CubeMx and selected the Slave receive only mode in the configuration
2019-08-16T23:26:18 < onio> I am using Saleae logic analyser to check the communications and I can see that the chip select, clock and data is being sent correctly but the STM32 just ignores them
2019-08-16T23:29:51 -!- ekaologik [~quassel@p4FF164C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-16T23:30:36 < karlp> probably havn't turned on both nvic and periph interrupts?
2019-08-16T23:31:37 < onio> karlp, I would check again
2019-08-16T23:32:30 < karlp> (check gpio clock enables too, whhile you're at it)
2019-08-16T23:32:34 < Laurenceb> you mean leader/follower?
2019-08-16T23:32:51 < karlp> no. fuck off.
2019-08-16T23:32:57 < Laurenceb> keeek
2019-08-16T23:33:02 < Laurenceb> SJWb
2019-08-16T23:34:11 -!- ekaologik [~quassel@p4FF164C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2019-08-16T23:36:46 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/curl/curl/issues/4069
2019-08-16T23:42:46 -!- mawk [mawk@serveur.io] has left ##stm32 []
2019-08-16T23:42:56 < Laurenceb> oh wow https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=46444.40
2019-08-16T23:43:02 < Laurenceb> >skybot F-850
2019-08-16T23:44:04 < Laurenceb> even moar autistic than robonaut
2019-08-16T23:47:26 < jadew> Laurenceb, they'll take that thing into space?
2019-08-16T23:47:47 < Laurenceb> apparently
2019-08-16T23:47:58 < jadew> how advanced is it?
2019-08-16T23:48:38 < jadew> oh, they'll controll it themselves
2019-08-16T23:48:49 < Laurenceb> I'm guessing its a telepresence thing
2019-08-16T23:48:52 < jadew> so more like a remote body
2019-08-16T23:48:54 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-16T23:49:23 < Laurenceb> ywlts telepresence robot mass shooters
2019-08-16T23:49:31 < Laurenceb> tele-elliot
2019-08-16T23:49:48 < jadew> put a dildo on it and astronauts can get remotely pegged by their earth wives
2019-08-16T23:49:52 < Laurenceb> keeek
2019-08-16T23:50:41 < Laurenceb> I want to see a skybot f-850 versus robonaut battle on the iss
2019-08-16T23:51:03 < Laurenceb> put putin and trump masks on them
2019-08-16T23:51:49 < jadew> don't know why, but these robots make me feel like they've given up on the efforts of putting men into space
2019-08-16T23:52:07 < Laurenceb> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECGPbuDWsAMzA20?format=jpg&name=360x360
2019-08-16T23:52:09 < Laurenceb> keek
2019-08-16T23:53:16 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip68-2-121-171.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-16T23:56:50 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/46444.0/1577201.jpg
--- Day changed Sat Aug 17 2019
2019-08-17T00:02:10 < Laurenceb> >someone actually sat in a meeting and approved this
2019-08-17T00:02:36 < jadew> you don't like it?
2019-08-17T00:02:43 < jadew> it's both funny and deep
2019-08-17T00:03:38 -!- jly [uid355225@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pdxxrxragfdqipey] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-17T00:04:07 < Laurenceb> holy shit wow
2019-08-17T00:04:08 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHPSN9tfmGA
2019-08-17T00:04:13 -!- mawk [mawk@serveur.io] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-17T00:04:43 < Laurenceb> >they thought this would be a good demonstration
2019-08-17T00:04:48 < Cracki> kek shooting from the hip
2019-08-17T00:05:39 < jadew> Laurenceb, that's how you tripple you budget
2019-08-17T00:05:49 < jadew> *your
2019-08-17T00:06:46 < mawk> lol Laurenceb 
2019-08-17T00:06:48 < mawk> the gab thing
2019-08-17T00:06:54 < mawk> that guy was on ##programming some weeks ago
2019-08-17T00:07:06 < mawk> he was getting flamed for submitting tickets for blocking gab to some other software
2019-08-17T00:07:11 < Laurenceb> lol 
2019-08-17T00:07:20 < jadew> wth is gab?
2019-08-17T00:07:42 < Cracki> twitter/facebook but with freedom(ish) of speech
2019-08-17T00:07:57 < Cracki> also replacing youtube, gmail, ....
2019-08-17T00:08:08 < Cracki> they replace everything that's big tech and fucks you over
2019-08-17T00:08:09 < jadew> aha
2019-08-17T00:08:47 < jadew> do they give out free mail hosting for custom domains?
2019-08-17T00:09:34 < Cracki> >brazil
2019-08-17T00:09:39 < Cracki> not sure
2019-08-17T00:09:54 < Cracki> I think they are working on free mail
2019-08-17T00:10:08 < mawk> they will just get blacklisted from other providers
2019-08-17T00:10:16 < Cracki> they might be receptive to custom domains
2019-08-17T00:10:33 < Cracki> I think they'll do their own dns/registrar too
2019-08-17T00:10:35 < mawk> even just me with my own semi reputable ip I get rejected mail and I can't appeal it 
2019-08-17T00:10:58 < mawk> you still need delegation from the main thing which is run by a bunch of university bearded guys
2019-08-17T00:11:04 < mawk> the whole internet is very centralized
2019-08-17T00:11:51 < Cracki> I think they don't have to touch BGP yet
2019-08-17T00:11:55 < Cracki> so that's fine
2019-08-17T00:12:13 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-17T00:12:19 < mawk> at least BGP isn't centralized
2019-08-17T00:12:27 < mawk> you just announce your routes to nearby peers
2019-08-17T00:12:47 < mawk> but address allocation is centralized, so is DNS registration
2019-08-17T00:12:58 < Cracki> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-08-17T00:13:12 < mawk> you see what happened to 8chan
2019-08-17T00:13:14 < Cracki> they made their own browser, I think based on chrome/chromium?
2019-08-17T00:13:19 < mawk> the whole internet ceased to cooperate with them
2019-08-17T00:13:26 < Cracki> so they can easily make it use their own dns
2019-08-17T00:13:29 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-17T00:13:36 < mawk> yeah there are a few "alternative roots" systems
2019-08-17T00:13:41 < mawk> "strongly discouraged" by the dns authorities lol
2019-08-17T00:13:47 < mawk> they don't want to surrender their power
2019-08-17T00:13:50 < Cracki> >authorities disapprove
2019-08-17T00:13:53 < Cracki> imagine my shock
2019-08-17T00:13:56 < mawk> lol
2019-08-17T00:13:59 < Laurenceb> aiui 8chan is on voluntary strike until about 10th Sept
2019-08-17T00:14:19 < Laurenceb> but they will have "new moderation policies" and shit
2019-08-17T00:17:12 < Laurenceb> oh yeah I found THE JERB
2019-08-17T00:17:16 < Laurenceb> >As a key DevOps Engineer you will be expected to evaluate, plan, integrate, and manage technical infrastructure solutions in Cloud.
2019-08-17T00:17:27 < Laurenceb> >in Cloud
2019-08-17T00:19:03 < Cracki> in Butt
2019-08-17T00:19:03 < mawk> devops
2019-08-17T00:19:09 < mawk> I hated this job
2019-08-17T00:19:09 < mawk> omg
2019-08-17T00:19:16 < mawk> it's more like help desk for stupid employees
2019-08-17T00:19:25 < mawk> I spent my day hiding from the stupid employees so I could work properly
2019-08-17T00:19:30 < mawk> hiding behind stairs or in the storage room
2019-08-17T00:19:33 < Cracki> digital toilet repair
2019-08-17T00:19:48 < mawk> yeah
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2019-08-17T00:20:28 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ0FpAAinBY
2019-08-17T00:21:01 < Laurenceb> I accidentally the cloud
2019-08-17T00:21:28 < Cracki> ah, here's with toilet humor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRIn8Yu7rU0
2019-08-17T00:22:10 < Cracki> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cloud-to-butt-redux/mghonbmkhoeammefiikcjdjaikniefnk
2019-08-17T00:24:13 < Laurenceb> wtf
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2019-08-17T00:55:35 < kakimir> hello dear
2019-08-17T00:59:33 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-17T01:09:42 < Steffanx> Hello boy.
2019-08-17T01:12:11 < kakimir> Hello paps
2019-08-17T01:12:37 < kakimir> I have adjusted my body for cold now
2019-08-17T01:13:26 < Steffanx> Hot chocolate and stroopwafels is all you need
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2019-08-17T01:14:03 < kakimir> is there fresh from oven stroopwaffles in netherlands?
2019-08-17T01:14:15 < jly> At dad’s
2019-08-17T01:14:25 < jly> And Amsterdam
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2019-08-17T01:15:16 < kakimir> amsterdam has all the munchies
2019-08-17T01:15:55 < jly> It’s good for pot
2019-08-17T01:16:13 < Steffanx> Fuck Amsterdam. Tourists only
2019-08-17T01:17:15 < Laurenceb> they have Hookers
2019-08-17T01:17:33 < jly> Ah
2019-08-17T01:18:08 < Laurenceb> my city now has a prostitution pen
2019-08-17T01:18:13 < Laurenceb> its quite funny
2019-08-17T01:18:18 < Steffanx> And high brits that jump out of windows.
2019-08-17T01:18:43 < Laurenceb> originally there was a "gentlemans lounge"
2019-08-17T01:18:58 < Laurenceb> then the "dancers" came out on the street
2019-08-17T01:19:23 < Laurenceb> now the police let them operate openly if they stay behind a series of bollards next to the club
2019-08-17T01:19:38 < Laurenceb> so they put rope between then and the hookers gather inside
2019-08-17T01:20:17 < Laurenceb> and they stick a bouncer on one end to "guard" them
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2019-08-17T01:20:26 < kakimir> I was there when I was just a boy
2019-08-17T01:20:40 < kakimir> 18 maybe
2019-08-17T01:22:15 < kakimir> red light district was weird place
2019-08-17T01:22:59 < kakimir> so casual and stuff
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2019-08-17T01:38:12 < englishman> Laurenceb, there is another ukfag in another channel who breaks ice out of industrial freezers so the techs can work on them
2019-08-17T01:38:16 < englishman> maybe you can do that
2019-08-17T01:38:56 < englishman> it probably pays £3/hr
2019-08-17T01:39:15 < kakimir> does uk have minimum wage
2019-08-17T01:39:38 < englishman> you'd still be more productive than you have been over the last 3 years of babbyshake
2019-08-17T01:45:48 < Laurenceb> keeek true
2019-08-17T01:46:06 < Laurenceb> or become a gigolo 
2019-08-17T01:46:51 < Laurenceb> >it took 3 years for babbyshake to get shut down
2019-08-17T01:53:14 < kakimir> did you stay until it was over Laurenceb
2019-08-17T01:53:15 < kakimir> ?
2019-08-17T01:59:50 < kakimir> when did they close it?
2019-08-17T02:06:54 < kakimir> lurencer1!
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2019-08-17T02:30:50 < Laurenceb> sup
2019-08-17T02:30:57 < Laurenceb> it ends at the end of this year
2019-08-17T02:31:06 < Laurenceb> unemployment 2020
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2019-08-17T02:41:03 < emeb_mac> and brexit!
2019-08-17T02:52:47 < englishman> Brexit killed babbyshake
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2019-08-17T03:10:45 < catphish> i'm trying to do i2c with my stm32 as a master and an SSD1306 OLED controller as a slave, it seems to expect a D/C (data/command) bit before each byte, is there a way i can send this?
2019-08-17T03:11:56 < catphish> oh, it's part of the standard 8 bits i think
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2019-08-17T03:41:45 < catphish> working now :)
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2019-08-17T04:12:07 < englishman> msp430 all GPIOs are pushpull whether you like it or NOT
2019-08-17T04:29:39 < disposabled[m]> I have a pot connected to an analog pin. It reads 4095+/3 no matter where I turn the pot
2019-08-17T04:30:05 < disposabled[m]> *4095+/-3
2019-08-17T04:41:59 < disposabled[m]> do I need a capacitor between the pot and the mcu?
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2019-08-17T05:03:12 < englishman> can you draw your circuit
2019-08-17T05:03:41 < englishman> do you just have the pot connected between vcc and the pin with nothign else?
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2019-08-17T05:15:08 < disposabled[m]> pot is connected to 3.3, G, and PB0
2019-08-17T05:18:32 < disposabled[m]> nothing else
2019-08-17T05:19:43 < disposabled[m]> englishman: ^^
2019-08-17T05:37:24 < disposabled[m]> the problem was bad power to pot
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2019-08-17T16:51:55 < onio> Hi yesterday I reported here that I was having problem getting the STM32H743 to generate interrupt when data is received. I can confirm that data is sent with logic analyser. Karlp suggested some stuff to check which I have done but still the same
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2019-08-17T16:52:31 < onio> I have tried to strip down the code as much as I can here https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/qbW3HJPFBY/
2019-08-17T16:55:17 < onio> https://imgur.com/a/puj8g1F
2019-08-17T16:55:38 < onio> https://imgur.com/a/ixxZris
2019-08-17T16:56:07 < onio> Any help would be appreciated, this is driving completely bunkers.
2019-08-17T16:59:35 < PaulFertser> Anyone here reads Hungarian? What does https://hup.hu/node/158322#comment-2369929 say about the v2 and what does "Köszi!" mean? I actually implemented support for that device in OpenWrt but I have no idea how to contact those HU folks so that they can test.
2019-08-17T17:00:46 < onio> if I remove the line "__HAL_SPI_ENABLE_IT" nothing happens at all, if I leave it in an "interrupt" keeps triggering without any data being sent
2019-08-17T17:28:13 < canton7> onio, you never clear the interrupt flag?
2019-08-17T17:29:12 < canton7> onio, if you're using the HAL, there's a HAL method you should call in your interrupt handler (which clears the interrupt flag and updates a bunch of state). You then register a callback with the HAL, which it calls if the interrupt signals a successful transfer (or whatever you decide to register it for)
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2019-08-17T17:42:45 < onio> canton7, thanks. I was trying to avoid using HAL because of the overhead that it adds. I can try clearing the tx flag in the ISR and see if that stops the unsolicited interrupt. 
2019-08-17T17:44:31 < onio> the only thing is that I am meant to be operating in a Slave receive mode only which means that I would not be enabling the Tx interrupt. When I don't enable the Tx interrupt nothing happens even though I can see the spi master sending data to the stm32
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2019-08-17T17:52:49 < canton7> onio, in that case you need to check the interrupt flags to see what exactly caused the interrupt to fire. Then you need to clear the flags.
2019-08-17T17:53:08 < canton7> the details are all in the reference manual iirc
2019-08-17T17:54:02 < onio> canton7, cool thanks
2019-08-17T17:54:38 < canton7> (if you don't clear the flag, the processor will fire the interrupt handler again as soon as it returns, as you found out)
2019-08-17T17:54:58 < onio> I am familiar with the reference manual RM0433. What is iirc
2019-08-17T17:55:16 < canton7> if I recall
2019-08-17T17:55:25 < canton7> (or "if I recall correctly")
2019-08-17T17:55:39 < canton7> might be worth looking at what the HAL does, even if you don't use it
2019-08-17T17:55:54 < onio> that is correct. fair enough
2019-08-17T17:56:32 < onio> I was looking at the code that where I discovered the __HAL_SPI_ENABLE_IT macro
2019-08-17T18:03:52 < bitmask> If I have a motor and I want to shut it off if it stalls, so say anything above 20-25A (I probably won't go over 10A if that helps) what would you use to detect it? 
2019-08-17T18:04:31 < bitmask> I dont have a way of using a hall effect sensor I dont think so thats out, I think measuring current is my best bet
2019-08-17T18:08:15 < qyx> a small R in the negative path and a comparator
2019-08-17T18:08:27 < qyx> such as the stm32 internal one
2019-08-17T18:09:09 < qyx> irc you can even feed the comparator - input from the DAC
2019-08-17T18:09:36 < qyx> in that case you can even adjust the current threshold
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2019-08-17T18:36:02 < onio> canton7, I just populated the spi_isr_handler with the aim to clear the interrupt but not flag is being set or am I missing something see https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4QMtk9vCMy/
2019-08-17T18:37:22 < canton7> onio, you check if it's set, and if it's set you set it again?
2019-08-17T18:38:24 < salcedo> heh yea this is strange
2019-08-17T18:41:03 < onio> am I reading this wrong: https://imgur.com/a/7tRml7P
2019-08-17T18:41:34 < canton7> onio, you know that '|=' sets a bit, not clears it, right?
2019-08-17T18:41:47 < canton7> oh, sorry, missed that
2019-08-17T18:42:00 < onio> yes, I think I am reading it wrong
2019-08-17T18:42:28 < canton7> writing to that register clears bits in the SR register. From the bit of it you've posted, it doesn't look like you should be reading that
2019-08-17T18:42:30 < onio> I have to check the SPI2S_SR register and clear the flag
2019-08-17T18:43:08 < canton7> yeah, read SR, then you can write into that register
2019-08-17T18:43:15 < onio> that is correct
2019-08-17T18:51:44 < karlp> ISCR? you're checking the contrl reg, not the status reg?
2019-08-17T18:51:48 < karlp> yueah, ok, you got that now.
2019-08-17T18:52:16 < karlp> hhrm, does h7 have a spi-v2 periph?
2019-08-17T18:52:40 < karlp> I'm also curious what you're doing with an h7 in spi slave on a raspi.
2019-08-17T18:52:44 < karlp> what's the workload?
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2019-08-17T19:00:57 < onio> No I am only using the raspberry pi to develop the spi slave code, the real device would be the ADE7878 chip which supports HSDC (High Speed Data Capture), This would be enabled via I2C and then continuously send a batchs of 32 bit registers over the spi
2019-08-17T19:01:47 < onio> does h7 have a spi-v2 periph? I can't say I have seen it unless it is called something else. I am new to the STM32 family so I can't tell
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2019-08-17T19:18:46 < onio> No change to the behaviour after correcting ISR https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/B2cgtH2YHq/
2019-08-17T19:19:47 < qyx> spi slave on rpi?
2019-08-17T19:19:55 < qyx> is it even possible?
2019-08-17T19:20:37 < onio> the rpi is the master sending data to the stm32
2019-08-17T19:22:23 < onio> interesting enough the SPI2S_SR default value is 0x00001002 which means that there is no reason for the interrupt to have fired unless there is another status register
2019-08-17T19:23:08 < onio> see image https://imgur.com/a/s3Jo1Iy
2019-08-17T19:24:07 < onio> In code stop on entry to the ISR it can be seen that the SPI2S_SR register value is the same as its reset value
2019-08-17T19:29:15 < bitmask> Oh, i asked a question didnt I. thanks qyx
2019-08-17T19:37:52 < karlp> onio: "2" is that there is space in the tx out fifo.
2019-08-17T19:37:58 < karlp> you'll get that a lot if you're not sending dat....
2019-08-17T19:38:23 < karlp> you might not even want it enabled at all, if you're not going to be doing anything with it...
2019-08-17T19:39:40 < onio> karlp, I didn't intend enabling it, just left it in for now as I was not getting any form of interrupt unless the tx is enabled
2019-08-17T19:39:58 < karlp> right, that might not however have been helpful.
2019-08-17T19:40:07 < karlp> you're trying to make the h7 a spi slave to the raspi right?
2019-08-17T19:40:11 < karlp> so if you'
2019-08-17T19:40:39 < karlp> re not getting bit 0 (rx packet available) you're not getting anything from the othher side, and/or things aren't configured right yet.
2019-08-17T19:40:59 < karlp> but bit 1, (space in tx output) can be .... unhelpful, if you don't have the rest in place
2019-08-17T19:41:01 < onio> yes, like I pointed out earlier the raspi is only for development
2019-08-17T19:41:31 < onio> I know that the rpi3 is sending data as I have Saleae logic analyser looking at the bus
2019-08-17T19:41:50 < onio> and I can see the clock, data and chip select line go
2019-08-17T19:43:27 < onio> I was thinking this would be very straight forward. The STM32 listening for the chip select and then read in the data
2019-08-17T19:44:03 < karlp> then you still have somtehing else wrong.
2019-08-17T19:44:17 < karlp> and enabling txe "just to get interrupts" isn't really helping :)
2019-08-17T19:44:29 < onio> I guess so.
2019-08-17T19:44:43 < onio> I agree
2019-08-17T19:45:23 < onio> just clutching on to straws like they say. 
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2019-08-17T22:31:21 < Cracki> TIL: youtube was originally intended to be an online dating service with video, like a successor to those things where you get sent VHS cassettes...
2019-08-17T22:38:44 -!- turnip420 [~machinehu@S01061cabc0ab4603.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2019-08-17T23:02:34 -!- bvernoux [~Ben@chl26-1-88-183-106-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-17T23:05:45 < Cracki> unboxing, with bbq tongs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTbiTQumSZk
2019-08-17T23:08:22 < bitmask> haha this "giant" sander is so much smaller than I expected
2019-08-17T23:08:46 < bitmask> I knew it took 2" (50mm) sanding pads but it didnt click until now how small that was
2019-08-17T23:10:32 < Cracki> sounds like the kind that's made for middle aged wine aunts to grind their toenails and other private parts
2019-08-17T23:11:23 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3785948
2019-08-17T23:13:12 < Cracki> cute
2019-08-17T23:13:31 < bitmask> thought it could be useful for some stuff
2019-08-17T23:13:33 < Cracki> it's gonna be 9 inches but it's soft right now
2019-08-17T23:13:33 < bitmask> we'll see
2019-08-17T23:14:19 < Cracki> do hdd motors have enough torque to be useful there?
2019-08-17T23:15:07 < Cracki> last hdd motor I touched was easily overpowered with two fingers
2019-08-17T23:15:35 < Cracki> ah, drill bits
2019-08-17T23:15:37 < bitmask> hmm
2019-08-17T23:15:41 < bitmask> dunno
2019-08-17T23:15:49 < Cracki> yeah looks good enough for drill bits
2019-08-17T23:16:03 < Cracki> and toe nails :P
2019-08-17T23:16:47 < Cracki> all I know about grinding drill bits is that the geometry has to be right
2019-08-17T23:17:06 < bitmask> yea if I was gonna do that id print something specific for it, they have jigs for that
2019-08-17T23:17:32 < Cracki> some guy on youtube once reviewed the cheapest drill bit grinder there is, and it kinda worked, but he had to fuck around a lot
2019-08-17T23:17:48 < Cracki> and he never reads the manual so he tortured some bits
2019-08-17T23:18:00 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1024834
2019-08-17T23:18:06 < bitmask> many variations like that
2019-08-17T23:18:22 < Cracki> afaik that's simplistic
2019-08-17T23:18:39 < Cracki> you aren't just grinding a cone on it
2019-08-17T23:19:44 < Cracki> nvm, *his* jig had to compensate or else it *would* have done a cone
2019-08-17T23:19:56 < Cracki> that 3d printed thing looks usable :P
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2019-08-17T23:48:59 < Cracki> https://hrcak.srce.hr/file/290080
--- Day changed Sun Aug 18 2019
2019-08-18T00:13:39 < Mangy_Dog>  with freertos whats the best way to set a schedule? Create a timer task? or create a lower priority task with a delay() inside it?
2019-08-18T00:14:10 < mawk> the task with delay is good
2019-08-18T00:14:12 < mawk> if you do it right
2019-08-18T00:14:23 < mawk> repeated delay() isn't good you need to compute the true delay you want to wait
2019-08-18T00:14:51 < mawk> Mangy_Dog: 
2019-08-18T00:15:05 < mawk> a timer yeah I guess it works too, but a timer is with a task too no ?
2019-08-18T00:15:12 < Mangy_Dog> dont need a perfect delay in this case, in this case a battery indicator that can run maybe once a minute
2019-08-18T00:15:17 < mawk> you mean a stm32 timer ? then you'd need to wake the task in an interrupt
2019-08-18T00:15:19 < mawk> it amounts to the same
2019-08-18T00:15:20 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T00:15:26 < mawk> yeah then a task with repeated delay of 1 minute
2019-08-18T00:15:54 < Mangy_Dog> that delay wont trigger any kind of blocking in the rtos? (just to be sure)
2019-08-18T00:18:23 < mawk> no, it's not a spinning delay
2019-08-18T00:18:27 < mawk> it uses the scheduler
2019-08-18T00:18:34 < mawk> I think
2019-08-18T00:18:37 < mawk> you make me doubt
2019-08-18T00:18:49 -!- kakimir [b237b2c4@178-55-178-196.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-18T00:20:30 < mawk> anyway if it's the lowest priority task Mangy_Dog it's not dramatic
2019-08-18T00:20:36 < mawk> maybe bad for your battery life tho
2019-08-18T00:20:42 < mawk> let me look in freertos docs
2019-08-18T00:21:43 < kakimir> hello dear
2019-08-18T00:22:30 < Steffanx> Hello dad
2019-08-18T00:23:05 < Steffanx> Ofcourse it uses the scheduler. Yield et all
2019-08-18T00:23:29 < Steffanx> Call idle task while its waiting for the delay to expire.
2019-08-18T00:29:35 < Steffanx> Unless you disabled it ofcourse
2019-08-18T00:47:59 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@140.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-18T00:48:07 < Laurenceb> <salcedo> nice React.js component there, neuralink programmable cuck.
2019-08-18T00:48:09 < Laurenceb> I kekked
2019-08-18T00:48:41 < kakimir> where is lurencer?
2019-08-18T00:50:10 < Steffanx> Look to the left kakimir  
2019-08-18T00:50:39 < kakimir> your left my right
2019-08-18T00:51:05 < Cracki> he might be a centrist tho
2019-08-18T00:51:43 < kakimir> Laurenceb: what you gonna do after babby shake?
2019-08-18T00:52:51 < Laurenceb> applying for jerbs atm
2019-08-18T00:52:58 < mawk> he's doing to stab them
2019-08-18T00:52:59 < mawk> next level
2019-08-18T00:53:03 < mawk> going
2019-08-18T00:53:04 < Laurenceb> kek
2019-08-18T00:53:14 < kakimir> any good jerbs?
2019-08-18T00:53:48 < Laurenceb> yeah there is a jerb writing stm32 codez for 55k/year and I only have to talk over irc
2019-08-18T00:53:56 < Laurenceb> sounds too good to be true but I sent them my cv
2019-08-18T00:54:41 < Laurenceb> something to do with oil industry sensors and controls
2019-08-18T00:55:10 < kakimir> can you access company financial details in uk?
2019-08-18T00:55:12 < jadew> you're getting jobs outsourced from india, outsourced from somewhere else?
2019-08-18T00:55:17 < salcedo> yum yum coconuts
2019-08-18T00:55:28  * salcedo is eating frozen coconut
2019-08-18T00:56:05 < kakimir> in case of anything suspisious I would look for financial details + when company has been established + number of employees etc.
2019-08-18T00:56:17 < kakimir> and in case of too good to be true stuff
2019-08-18T00:56:46 < Laurenceb> well atm I dont have any details as its via an agency
2019-08-18T00:57:02 < salcedo> Laurenceb: you have a phd tho
2019-08-18T00:57:13 < salcedo> doesn't that give you placement at any job you want automatically?
2019-08-18T00:57:25 < Laurenceb> nope
2019-08-18T00:57:44 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2019-08-18T00:57:54 < salcedo> then why did you get it?
2019-08-18T00:58:04 < Laurenceb> because I'm lazy
2019-08-18T00:58:35 < kakimir> I  have the same virtue
2019-08-18T00:59:30 < Laurenceb> keeek there are some ~6 year old girls inside my trailer mounted cage
2019-08-18T00:59:36 < Laurenceb> pedobear approves
2019-08-18T00:59:50 < kakimir> wuut
2019-08-18T01:00:04 < Laurenceb> I'm tempted to lock the door but I'll probably just call their parents
2019-08-18T01:00:34 < Laurenceb> I have a livestock cage mounted on a trailer in my garden for moving tree cuttings and stuff
2019-08-18T01:00:44 < kakimir> nice
2019-08-18T01:00:56 < salcedo> tree cuttings and "stuff"
2019-08-18T01:01:00 < kakimir> how long they have been there?
2019-08-18T01:01:00 < Laurenceb> two grrrls have somehow managed to climb in and get stuck
2019-08-18T01:01:02 < Laurenceb> lmao
2019-08-18T01:01:04 < Laurenceb> dunno
2019-08-18T01:01:17 < Laurenceb> the pedotrailer
2019-08-18T01:01:17 < Cracki> the police won't believe you
2019-08-18T01:01:49 < Laurenceb> its ok I called their mum
2019-08-18T01:01:56 < Cracki> what are 6yos doing at ONE IN THE NIGHT in your backyard?
2019-08-18T01:02:12 < kakimir> or 23 universal time
2019-08-18T01:02:14 < jadew> it's like 11 there
2019-08-18T01:02:25 < Cracki> oh right I calculated the wrong way
2019-08-18T01:02:35 < kakimir> still kinda late
2019-08-18T01:02:58 < englishman> kakimir should i buy sauna parts from a guy names Pertti Olavi Jalasjaa
2019-08-18T01:03:02 < Cracki> still, six year olds! in enriched fucking UK! at this time of night!
2019-08-18T01:03:04 < qyx> you shall not approach Laurenceb's garden
2019-08-18T01:03:06 < englishman> he sounds authentic
2019-08-18T01:03:27 < salcedo> at least Laurenceb has a garden, Cracki !
2019-08-18T01:03:36 < Cracki> with little girls in it
2019-08-18T01:03:42 < salcedo> yea but it's still a garden
2019-08-18T01:03:57 < Cracki> can't he grow them in the basement like everyone else?
2019-08-18T01:04:10 < kakimir> that is legit finnish name englishman
2019-08-18T01:04:18 < salcedo> depends. is it a full height basement or a crawl space?
2019-08-18T01:04:31 < jadew> I need a movie
2019-08-18T01:04:32 < englishman> he has a big sauna company
2019-08-18T01:04:36 < jadew> preferably something dark
2019-08-18T01:04:45 < englishman> irreversible
2019-08-18T01:04:48 < salcedo> jadew: django unchanged ?
2019-08-18T01:04:50 < salcedo> err unchained
2019-08-18T01:04:59 < Laurenceb> ikr, now their mum is slapping them in the face
2019-08-18T01:05:00 < Laurenceb> classy
2019-08-18T01:05:12 < Laurenceb> she wants to know if they damaged my trailer lol
2019-08-18T01:05:14 < kakimir> englishman: you need insulation panels and stove and bottom is done like any wet space
2019-08-18T01:05:46 < mawk> poor girls
2019-08-18T01:06:02 < jadew> salcedo, thanks, I'll check it out
2019-08-18T01:06:12 < kakimir> at least every sauna I have seen being built in house has had those aluminum foiled insulation panels under surface paneling
2019-08-18T01:06:56 < kakimir> and yeah high humidity so I don't know how structures should be ventilated
2019-08-18T01:07:10 < kakimir> but humidity is short duration
2019-08-18T01:09:38 < kakimir> saunas always have vents that are opened after the löyly so humid air is ventilated quickly
2019-08-18T01:11:52 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a01:e0a:198:e110:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2019-08-18T01:18:07 < kakimir> englishman: sauna is becoming a reality?
2019-08-18T01:18:24 < englishman> maybe
2019-08-18T01:18:41 < englishman> 4m^2 size ish
2019-08-18T01:19:07 < englishman> 7.5kW
2019-08-18T01:19:21 < kakimir> mini steam room?
2019-08-18T01:19:37 < englishman> long and narrow
2019-08-18T01:20:34 < kakimir> remember to make the bench length exceed your height
2019-08-18T01:21:34 < jadew> falling asleep in the sauna doesn't sound like a good plan
2019-08-18T01:24:06 < kakimir> laying down lowers blood pressure even further
2019-08-18T01:24:44 < kakimir> and cold feets are warmed up too
2019-08-18T01:25:53 < kakimir> chillaxation is maximized
2019-08-18T01:30:53 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-08-18T01:30:59 < mawk> you can't die in a sauna if you're a fine young man don't worry jadew 
2019-08-18T01:31:02 < mawk> if the air is dry enough
2019-08-18T01:31:24 < kakimir> unless you are absolutelly blasted
2019-08-18T01:31:42 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T01:31:48 < mawk> as long as you can sweat normally everything is fine
2019-08-18T01:32:17 < kakimir> and there is enough heat for long enough time
2019-08-18T01:40:34 < Laurenceb> keek this thread https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48773.60
2019-08-18T01:40:42 < Laurenceb> >sane person posts to an insane forum
2019-08-18T01:41:34 -!- Feliwir [~Stephan__@2a01:5c0:17:7e51:1991:f06:61ff:e08b] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-18T01:41:39 < Feliwir> Hey
2019-08-18T01:41:53 < Feliwir> Can someone help me with SPI on the stm32 L4?
2019-08-18T01:42:29 < Feliwir> I'm having issues connecting to my Bosch BME280
2019-08-18T01:43:12 < qyx> and whats the issue?
2019-08-18T01:44:38 < qyx> the ##stm32 mood is above average atm, so probably there will be someone to help
2019-08-18T01:44:49 < qyx> finnish saunas is the current topic
2019-08-18T01:45:06 < Feliwir> let me push real quickly
2019-08-18T01:45:58 < Feliwir> https://github.com/Tarcontar/pidrone/blob/master/src/bee/io/sensors.cpp#L41
2019-08-18T01:46:13 < Feliwir> This is how i setup my SPI (i'm using opencm3)
2019-08-18T01:46:33 < Feliwir> The issue is that the bme280 keeps telling that he can't the bme280
2019-08-18T01:46:48 < Feliwir> and i have no idea if my spi transfer is correct
2019-08-18T01:48:01 < qyx> did you try to scope it?
2019-08-18T01:48:11 < qyx> I cannot see anything wrong yet
2019-08-18T01:48:29 < qyx> you forgot to set fifo threshold
2019-08-18T01:48:52 < Feliwir> the issue is that i have my stm32 connected to a raspberry pi through gpio, so the debug possibilities are limited to serial prints :D
2019-08-18T01:49:18 < kakimir> are you sure?
2019-08-18T01:49:25 < Feliwir> how can i set the fifo threshold?
2019-08-18T01:49:37 < Feliwir> sure about what?
2019-08-18T01:49:57 < kakimir> I think there was a project that makes raspberry pi a debugger probe
2019-08-18T01:50:29 < qyx> I am using rpi with openocd over gpio to debug L4
2019-08-18T01:50:35 < qyx> so it definitely works
2019-08-18T01:50:50 < kakimir> https://iosoft.blog/2019/01/28/raspberry-pi-openocd/
2019-08-18T01:50:55 < kakimir> first google result
2019-08-18T01:52:23 < kakimir> you can start openocd as a server to your raspi and then debug via ethernets
2019-08-18T01:52:40 < qyx> 		spi_fifo_reception_threshold_8bit(spibus->port);
2019-08-18T01:52:40 < qyx> 		spi_set_data_size(spibus->port, SPI_CR2_DS_8BIT);
2019-08-18T01:52:44 < qyx> Feliwir: ^
2019-08-18T01:53:32 < Feliwir> well we only have minimum amount of pins connected to our l4, need to check if we have all in place
2019-08-18T01:53:44 < Feliwir> eventhough i don't think that a debugger would help me
2019-08-18T01:54:01 < qyx> but idk actually if this helps in your case
2019-08-18T01:54:06 < qyx> don't you have a scope?
2019-08-18T01:54:09 < Feliwir> @qyx, we do set the data size though
2019-08-18T01:54:24 < qyx> to check if the signals are as expected?
2019-08-18T01:54:53 < Feliwir> we do have a logic level analyzer
2019-08-18T01:55:49 < qyx> so capture it and see
2019-08-18T01:56:12 < qyx> it is hard to tell where's the problem if only a single bit of information is provided
2019-08-18T01:56:16 < qyx> works/doesn't work
2019-08-18T01:56:42 < qyx> we may only see and try to spot common L4 problems (vs. other families)
2019-08-18T01:57:07 < qyx> data size, fifo threshold, DR/DR8 are some of the common ones
2019-08-18T01:57:49 < Feliwir> i am testing now, but i feel like the L4 is the worst documented of all the stm32 chips
2019-08-18T01:57:59 < Feliwir> there are almost no samples with that chip
2019-08-18T02:00:02 < Feliwir> qyx, the issue is i don't know what the bme280 driver is expecting, but i'll check with the logic level analyzer now that something happens
2019-08-18T02:00:29 < Feliwir> did you have a look at the spi_transfer? I feel like that might not be ideal aswell: https://github.com/Tarcontar/pidrone/blob/master/src/bee/io/sensors.cpp#L81
2019-08-18T02:02:38 -!- catphish [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-18T02:02:40 < zyp> Feliwir, samples are not documentation
2019-08-18T02:03:33 < Feliwir> true
2019-08-18T02:03:35 < zyp> also, considering l4 is one of the newest families, naturally software for it is the least mature
2019-08-18T02:04:00 < zyp> the older a chip is, the more use it's seen
2019-08-18T02:04:13 < Feliwir> well we bought him a year ago
2019-08-18T02:04:29 < Feliwir> and there was even a succesor released recently
2019-08-18T02:04:34 < Feliwir> With the l4+
2019-08-18T02:04:35 < zyp> I'm talking from a stm32 timeline perspective
2019-08-18T02:05:21 < zyp> it looks something like f1, f2, f4, f3, f0, l0, l4, … with l1 and f7/h7 somewhere in between
2019-08-18T02:05:46 < mawk> and the mpu !
2019-08-18T02:05:57 < zyp> l1 might be in between f4 and f3 IIRC
2019-08-18T02:06:01 < zyp> yeah, also wb
2019-08-18T02:06:26 < zyp> wb is basically l4 with a radio and a second cpu to run the radio
2019-08-18T02:06:59 < zyp> another thing is, most stuff is shared across families
2019-08-18T02:07:33 < zyp> there's usually a couple of versions of each peripheral, but I guess most of the versions in l4 are the same as in l0 or f7
2019-08-18T02:07:43 < zyp> and more
2019-08-18T02:08:01 < zyp> so examples doesn't really need to be all that l4 specifi
2019-08-18T02:08:05 < zyp> specific
2019-08-18T02:08:45 < catphish> my laptop dc power jack is shorted internally :(
2019-08-18T02:08:56 < zyp> so anyway
2019-08-18T02:09:03 < zyp> regarding SPI
2019-08-18T02:09:06 < Feliwir> problem is that the api on the l4 seemed to have changed a lot
2019-08-18T02:09:20 < zyp> there's a SPI errata, it applies to at least l0, possibly l4 as well
2019-08-18T02:09:23 < mawk> you have the hal reference implementation
2019-08-18T02:09:26 < mawk> it's not enough ?
2019-08-18T02:09:30 < mawk> and the manual of course
2019-08-18T02:09:45 < zyp> IIRC it causes data corruption if you don't increase GPIO drive strength on SCK
2019-08-18T02:09:50 < mawk> porting code to L4 should just mean changing the few primitives that changed and all the rest stays unchanged, spi stays spi
2019-08-18T02:09:53 < catphish> an l4 with a radio? what's that? sounds cool
2019-08-18T02:09:57 < zyp> maybe that's what's fucking up your SPI transfers
2019-08-18T02:09:58 < mawk> stm32-wb
2019-08-18T02:10:05 < mawk> with 2.4GHz stuff catphish iirc
2019-08-18T02:10:13 < Feliwir> mawk, i am not using HAL
2019-08-18T02:10:18 < zyp> catphish, stm32wb, it's cool but kinda annoying
2019-08-18T02:10:23 < mawk> yes but you can look a the code Feliwir 
2019-08-18T02:10:26 < catphish> mawk: that's cool, what protocols?
2019-08-18T02:10:40 < mawk> bluetooth, 802.15.4, and anything you can build on that I guess
2019-08-18T02:10:41 < zyp> catphish, BLE, thread, plain 802.15.4
2019-08-18T02:10:43 < mawk> so zigbee maybe
2019-08-18T02:10:50 < mawk> thread, ant, dot, whatever
2019-08-18T02:10:53 < zyp> and zigbee were planned last I checked
2019-08-18T02:11:05 < catphish> ah cool, i've been wanting to experiment with that, play with home automation
2019-08-18T02:11:22 < mawk> you have standalone transceivers you can hook up to an actual mcu
2019-08-18T02:11:35 < mawk> for small scale I don't see much the point of an integrated thing 
2019-08-18T02:11:38 < zyp> the problem is, the radio peripheral is only accessible by cpu2, and cpu2 is locked down so you can only run a ST binary blob radio stack on it
2019-08-18T02:11:40 < mawk> especially since it's not integrated, 2 cpus
2019-08-18T02:11:54 < catphish> yeah i assumed the radio was a proprietary blob
2019-08-18T02:12:08 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@94.11.204.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2019-08-18T02:12:10 < catphish> but that's ok if it does what you need it to
2019-08-18T02:12:11 < zyp> and last I checked the documentation for interfacing with the binary blob wasn't even released, but I assume it is now :p
2019-08-18T02:12:32 < mawk> yeah but you can't change it catphish 
2019-08-18T02:12:34 < mawk> else you brick it
2019-08-18T02:12:45 < mawk> with nRF52840 you can just ignore the softdevice and roll your own, it's possible
2019-08-18T02:12:47 < mawk> here no
2019-08-18T02:12:50 < catphish> i'm having a crappy day :( first my motorbike fell and is now broken, and now my laptop won't accept AC power
2019-08-18T02:12:56 < zyp> I ran out of patience with it, and switched to nrf52
2019-08-18T02:13:00 < mawk> can you open it and locate the short catphish ?
2019-08-18T02:13:07 < mawk> nRF52 is pretty pleasant to work with
2019-08-18T02:13:11 < zyp> yeah
2019-08-18T02:13:21 < catphish> mawk: yeah, hopefully, haven't tried yet, luckily i have a USB C charger for it
2019-08-18T02:13:33 < mawk> ah so it's just on the jack barell then I guess
2019-08-18T02:13:34 < catphish> but it's not great, so will try to resolder the jack
2019-08-18T02:13:36 < mawk> should be easy to fix
2019-08-18T02:13:46 < zyp> the nrf usb peripheral is a bit weird, I added some preliminary support for it to my lib
2019-08-18T02:13:53 < catphish> might need to replace the jack, dunno yet
2019-08-18T02:14:17 < catphish> but also, might be time for a new laptop
2019-08-18T02:14:33 < Feliwir> zyp, so i set the drive strength to 8MA on just SCK?
2019-08-18T02:14:35 < zyp> so I've got some scratch-written code running on nrf52 capturing zigbee packets and relaying it to the host over usb
2019-08-18T02:15:04 < zyp> Feliwir, start by reading the errata sheet, look if the problem is there, check if the symptoms sound correct for you and if so follow the suggested workaround
2019-08-18T02:15:14 < catphish> i want a high end laptop with a single power-scalable GPU instead of this dual gpu nonsense that never works with linux
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2019-08-18T02:15:23 < mawk> ah nice
2019-08-18T02:15:34 < mawk> yeah I never got it to work under linux, always ended up using the motherboard one
2019-08-18T02:15:39 < mawk> but I don't game
2019-08-18T02:15:43 < Laurenceb> wow this nasaspaceflight forumz is a shitheap
2019-08-18T02:15:44 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48773.100
2019-08-18T02:15:50 < mawk> you spend all your days there Laurenceb 
2019-08-18T02:15:52 < zyp> I should get back to my zigbee project some time
2019-08-18T02:16:04 < zyp> I wanna replace all my light switches :p
2019-08-18T02:16:09 < Laurenceb> mawk: Iikr, also, there are magnets where I say there are magnets
2019-08-18T02:16:17 < Laurenceb> we all know the magnets are everywhere
2019-08-18T02:16:19 < mawk> so with nRF zyp ? you use the official stack ?
2019-08-18T02:16:30 < zyp> mawk, no
2019-08-18T02:16:35 < zyp> hang on
2019-08-18T02:16:37 < catphish> mawk: i just have mine hard set to use the intel gpu, because i don't gae enough for it to matter, and the heat is a problem
2019-08-18T02:16:39 < mawk> I tried for a while to write my own stack, but it's like they do everything to discourage you
2019-08-18T02:16:48 < catphish> but seems like a waste
2019-08-18T02:17:17 < catphish> maybe i'll just buy a laptop with a high end intel gpu (if such a thing exists), or go amd, dunno how good theirs are
2019-08-18T02:17:31 < zyp> mawk, it's pretty bare bones: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/sCm1P
2019-08-18T02:17:32 < catphish> i was holding out for the new intel/amd hybrid
2019-08-18T02:17:49 < Cracki> I heard rumors that intel is gonna go into discrete gpus... or at least spruce up their integrated stuff
2019-08-18T02:18:16 < Cracki> they need *something* to bridge desktop stuff and their embedded accelerator stuff
2019-08-18T02:18:39 < catphish> an intel chip that could handle mid range gaming would be perfect, maybe they need a new cpu range for it
2019-08-18T02:18:55 < zyp> mawk, but also, that's all that's required to receive 802.15.4-packets
2019-08-18T02:19:00 < catphish> i don't really care, as long as i can get away from nvidia's bybrid thing
2019-08-18T02:19:42 < mawk> ah nice zyp 
2019-08-18T02:19:52 < Cracki> the cpu part of a cpu isn't gonna do graphics well. you need the parallelism and specialisation
2019-08-18T02:19:53 < mawk> so that's capturing 802.15.4 frames and sending them over usb
2019-08-18T02:19:59 < zyp> exactly
2019-08-18T02:20:05 < mawk> there is a monitor mode ?
2019-08-18T02:20:09 < mawk> to watch all channels
2019-08-18T02:20:27 < zyp> no, I'm watching the particular channel my ikea lights are running on
2019-08-18T02:20:35 < catphish> Cracki: you mean the GPU in a cpu?
2019-08-18T02:20:44 < Cracki> yes, if the cpu has a gpu
2019-08-18T02:20:53 < Cracki> intel desktop cpus have, xeons don't
2019-08-18T02:20:54 < catphish> well all intel CPUs do afaik
2019-08-18T02:21:01 < catphish> oh yeah, sure
2019-08-18T02:21:17 < zyp> I dumped the memory of the microcontroller in one of my ikea remotes to get at the network key so I can decrypt all the zigbee traffic
2019-08-18T02:21:25 < mawk> ah, that's nice
2019-08-18T02:21:29 < mawk> that was easy to do ?
2019-08-18T02:21:37 < mawk> eg debug enabled on the ikea mcu
2019-08-18T02:21:43 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/SdwDM.jpg <- yup
2019-08-18T02:21:59 < Feliwir> zyp, i only find a problem when in slave mode
2019-08-18T02:22:02 < Cracki> for mobile it's a good idea but for desktop it's a huge advantage that you can split the cpu+gpu cooling over a wider area
2019-08-18T02:22:11 < zyp> mawk, it's using efr32
2019-08-18T02:22:23 < Cracki> imagine one heat sink having to handle 150(cpu)+200+(gpu) watts...
2019-08-18T02:22:47 < zyp> I thought about just writing a new firmware for those first, but efr32 also doesn't document the radio peripheral, just gives you a stack blob to run
2019-08-18T02:23:22 < catphish> Cracki: well ideally i'd like to see a laptop with no on-cpu-gpu, and a powerful but throttleable discreet gpu
2019-08-18T02:23:41 < catphish> this kinda solves all the problems, but i don't know if such a throttleable external gpu exists
2019-08-18T02:23:52 < zyp> so I guess nrf52 is the way to go
2019-08-18T02:23:56 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T02:24:17 < zyp> just haven't had much time to pursue that project lately
2019-08-18T02:24:20 < catphish> i like the look of these https://www.razer.com/gb-en/gaming-laptops/razer-blade :)
2019-08-18T02:24:46 < catphish> "Razer Recommends Windows" fuck off
2019-08-18T02:24:55 < mawk> lol
2019-08-18T02:25:19 < Cracki> all gpus are "throttlable". I think the advantage of integrated graphics is that you have tighter coupling, so it needs a lot less effort (transfer AND crunch) to calculate the same thing at the same speed
2019-08-18T02:25:48 < mawk> but harder to cool
2019-08-18T02:25:48 < Cracki> well you're fucked if you want gaming on linux
2019-08-18T02:25:54 < catphish> perhaps, at low speeds bus bandwidth shouldn't be an issue though
2019-08-18T02:26:12 < catphish> Cracki: actually i'm shocked how many games are available on steam on linux
2019-08-18T02:26:31 < Cracki> what fraction of those is made with unity?
2019-08-18T02:26:39 < catphish> unknown
2019-08-18T02:26:39 < Cracki> or some other "compat layer"?
2019-08-18T02:26:40 < zyp> so are you looking for a laptop to play games on or what?
2019-08-18T02:26:46 < catphish> but if it works, it works
2019-08-18T02:26:50 < Cracki> :)
2019-08-18T02:28:18 < catphish> zyp: no, not really, just be nice if games worked on the rare occasions i do want to play them them im not at home
2019-08-18T02:29:11 < catphish> i'd probably be happy with just intel graphics
2019-08-18T02:29:51 < Cracki> >my pronouns are Xe https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-xe-gpu-specs-features,38246.html
2019-08-18T02:30:21 < catphish> cool :)
2019-08-18T02:30:44 < Feliwir>  gpio_set_output_config(SPI_PORT, GPIO_OTYPE_PP, GPIO_DRIVE_8MA, SPI_MOSI); is not supported for the stm32 l4 for some reason
2019-08-18T02:31:38 < Cracki> a lot of bytes in that call that could cause it to be unsupported
2019-08-18T02:31:46 < Cracki> or letters
2019-08-18T02:32:23 < Feliwir> seems like opencm3 can't set drive strength for stm32
2019-08-18T02:33:18 < zyp> Feliwir, you're probably just doing it wrong
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2019-08-18T02:34:32 < catphish> lenovo x1 carbon looks nice, high spec, intel graphics
2019-08-18T02:34:50 < zyp> Feliwir, this is probably the function you want: http://libopencm3.org/docs/latest/stm32l4/html/group__gpio__file.html#gab05e7f5b963f49c7442a69e5999f9319
2019-08-18T02:35:50 < zyp> Feliwir, also, if you're doing slave, MOSI is an input, so drive strength is irrelevant
2019-08-18T02:35:56 < Feliwir> Is speed the equivalent to strength in this context?
2019-08-18T02:36:01 < zyp> yes
2019-08-18T02:36:11 < zyp> higher drive strength can drive faster signals
2019-08-18T02:36:18 < Feliwir> We looked at our SCK with the logic level analyzer and it looks indeed a bit strange
2019-08-18T02:36:33 < zyp> yeah, but SCK is provided by the master
2019-08-18T02:36:54 < Feliwir> yes, my stm32
2019-08-18T02:37:05 < zyp> I thought you said you were doing slave
2019-08-18T02:37:10 < Feliwir> no
2019-08-18T02:37:15 < zyp> okay
2019-08-18T02:37:15 < Feliwir> i am doing a master
2019-08-18T02:37:28 < Feliwir> `spi_init_master`
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2019-08-18T02:39:08 < Feliwir> https://github.com/Tarcontar/pidrone/blob/master/src/bee/io/sensors.cpp#L46
2019-08-18T02:39:12 < Feliwir> i already set high
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2019-08-18T02:56:50 < Feliwir> The clock is having no signal at all
2019-08-18T03:08:46 < Feliwir> zyp, do you have any idea?
2019-08-18T03:25:16 < zyp> no, it's 2AM, I'm done thinking for tonight :)
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2019-08-18T03:33:18 < mawk> so you set drive strength to max Feliwir ?
2019-08-18T03:33:26 < mawk> if you see the clock being strange
2019-08-18T03:33:35 < Feliwir> it's set to HIGH
2019-08-18T03:33:36 < mawk> if you disconnect clock from slave is it still strange ?
2019-08-18T03:33:46 < mawk> is there a pullup/pulldown on it ?
2019-08-18T03:33:49 < mawk> depending on the polarity you chose
2019-08-18T03:33:54 < mawk> if no then try this
2019-08-18T03:34:02 < Feliwir> a pullup
2019-08-18T03:34:07 < Feliwir> for polarity high
2019-08-18T03:34:08 < mawk> ok good
2019-08-18T03:34:23 < mawk> the clock should look nice
2019-08-18T03:34:31 < mawk> if there is an issue with it there is maybe an electrical wiring issue
2019-08-18T03:34:42 < mawk> or a defect like the errata says with the drive strength
2019-08-18T03:39:35 < Feliwir> And what's up when i get suck on my reads? 
2019-08-18T03:39:42 < Feliwir> for some reason SPI_SR_RXNE never gets freed
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2019-08-18T03:40:24 < mawk> that may be a coding issue indeed
2019-08-18T03:40:32 < mawk> normally that one is released once you read, no ?
2019-08-18T03:41:11 < Feliwir> yes, but before i read i wait for it to be freed in a while loop
2019-08-18T03:41:36 < Feliwir> like done here: http://libopencm3.org/docs/latest/stm32l4/html/group__spi__file.html#ga678fc0899ce572786e0ee3f875b80e91
2019-08-18T03:44:15 < mawk> hm
2019-08-18T03:44:20 < mawk> better look at the HAL code
2019-08-18T03:44:23 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T03:44:27 < mawk> it's for stm32l4, didn't see the title
2019-08-18T03:44:28 < mawk> ok yeah
2019-08-18T03:44:48 < Feliwir> yeah
2019-08-18T03:44:55 < mawk> well they wait for RXNE to appear
2019-08-18T03:44:57 < mawk> then they read it
2019-08-18T03:44:58 < Feliwir> also where can i find the HAL code?
2019-08-18T03:45:06 < mawk> I don't see them waiting for RXNE to disappear after that
2019-08-18T03:45:16 < Feliwir> yes, but RXNE never appears for me
2019-08-18T03:45:18 < mawk> [02:41:11] <Feliwir> yes, but before i read i wait for it to be freed in a while loop
2019-08-18T03:45:18 < mawk> [02:41:36] <Feliwir> like done here: http://libopencm3.org/docs/latest/stm32l4/html/group__spi__file.html#ga678fc0899ce572786e0ee3f875b80e91
2019-08-18T03:45:24 < mawk> oops sorry
2019-08-18T03:45:25 < mawk> https://www.st.com/en/embedded-software/stm32cubel4.html
2019-08-18T03:46:07 < Feliwir> me
2019-08-18T03:46:13 < Feliwir> takes forever to register
2019-08-18T03:46:51 < Feliwir> ok worked :D
2019-08-18T03:47:14 < Feliwir> (the download)
2019-08-18T03:47:39 < Feliwir> What i am wondering is: how does the stm32 know that it should run the clock on my SCK pin?
2019-08-18T03:48:01 < Feliwir> i didn't find anything related in my setup_spi
2019-08-18T03:48:47 < mawk> at each byte you clock out, the clock is toggled on each bit
2019-08-18T03:48:49 < mawk> as a master
2019-08-18T03:49:01 < mawk> it's done synchronously with the data output
2019-08-18T03:49:06 < mawk> obviously, since SPI is duplex
2019-08-18T03:50:04 < Feliwir> yes, but i didn't have to specify the clock port during master init
2019-08-18T03:50:35 < mawk> what do you mean by port ?
2019-08-18T03:50:40 < mawk> pin ?
2019-08-18T03:50:48 < Feliwir> My SCK is PA6
2019-08-18T03:50:51 < Feliwir> *PA5
2019-08-18T03:50:55 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T03:51:08 < mawk> well you can't really choose it
2019-08-18T03:51:10 < Feliwir> so in libopencm port GPIOA and pin GPIO5
2019-08-18T03:51:18 < mawk> there is one clock pin for the SPI peripheral you use
2019-08-18T03:51:29 < mawk> just set it up with the proper drive strength in alternate function mode
2019-08-18T03:52:39 < Feliwir> Another thing i'm confused with baudrate division thing
2019-08-18T03:53:19 < Feliwir> what should i pick?
2019-08-18T03:53:22 < Feliwir> 2-256
2019-08-18T03:53:48 < mawk> that depends on the frequency your slave supports
2019-08-18T03:54:03 < mawk> there should be the formula in the reference manual
2019-08-18T03:54:56 < Feliwir> 10Mhz at max it says
2019-08-18T03:55:07 < Feliwir> so when i run with 80Mhz 8 should be fine?
2019-08-18T03:55:58 < mawk> 7 I think no ?
2019-08-18T03:56:02 < mawk> the formula is /(1+baudrate)
2019-08-18T03:56:05 < mawk> but verify that in the RM
2019-08-18T03:56:16 < mawk> but you don't have to do it at max speed especially if the wiring is very long or bad
2019-08-18T03:56:18 < Feliwir> well i use 64, i guess lower is always allowed
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2019-08-18T03:56:22 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T03:56:40 < mawk> but not too low
2019-08-18T03:59:25 < Feliwir> And do i want my clock to be high or low at idle?
2019-08-18T04:00:42 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T04:00:46 < mawk> that depends on the polarity
2019-08-18T04:00:49 < mawk> I thought you knew it
2019-08-18T04:00:56 < mawk> you set it for high at idle, with a pullup
2019-08-18T04:01:15 < mawk> well no, but that's a pullup you'd use for high at idle
2019-08-18T04:01:31 < mawk> but I don't know if you need a pullup at all anyway, the SCK output isn't open collector is it ?
2019-08-18T04:02:05 < Feliwir> i can define pullup /pulldown aswell for the sck pin or am i mistaken?
2019-08-18T04:02:41 < mawk> what do you mean by aswell ? what was the pullup for previously ?
2019-08-18T04:02:51 < mawk> yes you can put a pullup on SCK, but what I'm saying is that maybe you don't need it
2019-08-18T04:03:03 < mawk> since the stm32 SCK output isn't open collector that I know of, it's a push pull output
2019-08-18T04:03:59 < Feliwir> but it's not a potential bug source is it?
2019-08-18T04:04:14 < mawk> normally no, it will just burn power for nothing
2019-08-18T04:04:41 < mawk> potential bug source is the SPI mode, there are like 8 ways to configure polarity and phase and everything
2019-08-18T04:04:50 < mawk> you should see in the slave docs what you need to use
2019-08-18T04:06:03 < Feliwir>  Data on SDI is latched by the device at
2019-08-18T04:06:03 < Feliwir> SCK rising edge and SDO is changed at SCK falling edge. Communication starts when CSB
2019-08-18T04:06:03 < Feliwir> goes to low and stops when CSB goes to high; during these transitions on CSB, SCK must be
2019-08-18T04:06:03 < Feliwir> stable
2019-08-18T04:06:06 < mawk> but if you say SCK looks strange on scope there is something deeper to it, what did you mean by strange ?
2019-08-18T04:06:11 < Feliwir> When we had arduino i was using low
2019-08-18T04:06:15 < Feliwir> and it worked
2019-08-18T04:06:32 < Feliwir> by strange i mean it's not alternating
2019-08-18T04:06:39 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T04:06:41 < mawk> so it stays constant
2019-08-18T04:06:42 < Feliwir> there is no clock. It's always loew
2019-08-18T04:06:43 < mawk> nothing on the line
2019-08-18T04:06:44 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T04:06:53 < mawk> your stm32 isn't clocking anything out
2019-08-18T04:06:59 < Feliwir> yep
2019-08-18T04:07:11 < Feliwir> or i failed completly with the logic level analyzer
2019-08-18T04:07:19 < mawk> you configured SCK, MISO, MOSI, NSS as alternate function push pull or alternate function input in every case
2019-08-18T04:07:35 < mawk> set up peripheral clock
2019-08-18T04:07:50 < Feliwir> i have a peripheral clock with 80mhz setup
2019-08-18T04:08:00 < mawk> and the other clocks are good ?
2019-08-18T04:08:07 < Feliwir> systick works :D
2019-08-18T04:08:08 < mawk> I don't remember exactly the names
2019-08-18T04:08:13 < mawk> APB, AHB
2019-08-18T04:08:19 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T04:08:24 < Feliwir> no idea on how to check that
2019-08-18T04:08:36 < mawk> I never used libopencm3
2019-08-18T04:08:45 < mawk> with HAL I just use the graphical tool to set up clocks
2019-08-18T04:08:48 < mawk> stm32cubemx
2019-08-18T04:08:53 < Feliwir> i never used a stm32 before
2019-08-18T04:09:06 < Feliwir> i am on linux that's why i must use libopencm3. It's fine
2019-08-18T04:09:14 < mawk> what do you mean ?
2019-08-18T04:09:16 < mawk> I'm on linux too
2019-08-18T04:09:19 < mawk> you can use anything you want
2019-08-18T04:09:25 < mawk> baremetal, hal, ll, libopencm3
2019-08-18T04:09:58 < Feliwir> the good thing with libopencm3 is that it wraps more than stm32's
2019-08-18T04:10:05 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T04:10:53 < Feliwir> so how do i put life into clock?
2019-08-18T04:10:57 < Feliwir> *my
2019-08-18T04:11:51 < mawk> can I see your code ?
2019-08-18T04:12:13 < Feliwir> https://github.com/Tarcontar/pidrone/blob/master/src/bee/io/sensors.cpp#L41
2019-08-18T04:12:18 < Feliwir> sure it's all on github
2019-08-18T04:13:29 < mawk> thanks
2019-08-18T04:14:25 < Feliwir> Does stm32cubemx generate code for the clock stuff?
2019-08-18T04:14:37 < mawk> yes
2019-08-18T04:14:40 < mawk> that's its job
2019-08-18T04:14:42 < mawk> generate code
2019-08-18T04:14:51 < mawk> for clock, for peripheral configuration, for pins, for interrupts
2019-08-18T04:14:57 < mawk> it generates HAL code, some people here don't like HAL
2019-08-18T04:15:02 < mawk> and some people here contribute to libopencm3
2019-08-18T04:15:04 < mawk> I should try it some time
2019-08-18T04:15:11 < mawk> but HAL is fine to start I'm sure
2019-08-18T04:15:29 < Feliwir> i'll check the code it generates. I'm sure it'll be somewhat similar
2019-08-18T04:15:42 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T04:15:44 < mawk> it's a java app
2019-08-18T04:15:56 < Feliwir> *puke* :D
2019-08-18T04:15:58 < mawk> lol
2019-08-18T04:16:07 < mawk> they made an IDE now too, integrating cubemx
2019-08-18T04:16:09 < mawk> stm32cubeIDE
2019-08-18T04:16:19 < mawk> it's a fork of atollic truestudio or something
2019-08-18T04:16:25 < mawk> since they bought it
2019-08-18T04:22:48 < Feliwir> could make any sense of the code?
2019-08-18T04:23:12 < mawk> ah I forgot to look at it
2019-08-18T04:23:19 < mawk> the tv is sucking my brain
2019-08-18T04:23:37 < mawk> hm
2019-08-18T04:23:41 < mawk> yeah the clock setup looks good I guess
2019-08-18T04:24:13 < mawk> are you sure you can set the gpio mode for all the pins at once ? (just asking, I never used this)
2019-08-18T04:24:28 < mawk> you saw the PORT1|PORT2|PORT3 syntax somewhere ?
2019-08-18T04:25:04 < Feliwir> Configure a group of pins. is the description
2019-08-18T04:25:11 < Feliwir> And i copied that part from a sample :)
2019-08-18T04:25:11 < mawk> ah, ok
2019-08-18T04:25:17 < mawk> yeah so it's fine
2019-08-18T04:25:59 < mawk> SPI_CR1_CPOL_CLK_TO_1_WHEN_IDLE
2019-08-18T04:26:05 < mawk> you say CLK was always low on your LA
2019-08-18T04:26:08 < mawk> so that's strange
2019-08-18T04:32:03 < Feliwir> ye
2019-08-18T04:32:41 < Feliwir> sorry for the late response
2019-08-18T04:32:47 < Feliwir> i was doing stuff :D
2019-08-18T04:32:47 < mawk> don't worry
2019-08-18T04:37:37 < Feliwir> hm i test cubemx atm
2019-08-18T04:37:41 < mawk> good
2019-08-18T04:37:45 < mawk> you want help with the clock config ?
2019-08-18T04:37:48 < Feliwir> but the landing pattern of my mcu is displayed wrong
2019-08-18T04:37:50 < mawk> send me a screenshot and I can tell you
2019-08-18T04:37:53 < mawk> or you can use the auto clock solver
2019-08-18T04:39:02 < Feliwir> auto clock solver?
2019-08-18T04:39:06 < Feliwir> didn't find that yet
2019-08-18T04:40:45 < mawk> yes
2019-08-18T04:40:50 < mawk> there is a clock tab
2019-08-18T04:40:56 < mawk> I can send you screenshots if you want
2019-08-18T04:41:06 < mawk> what board do you have exactly ?
2019-08-18T04:41:10 < mawk> or is it a custom board ?
2019-08-18T04:41:29 < mawk> if it's a nucleo you have preconfigured stuff, else you have to set the right xtal freq you have on your custom board
2019-08-18T04:41:34 < mawk> but it's pretty easy overall
2019-08-18T04:41:51 < Feliwir> it's custom
2019-08-18T04:42:03 < Feliwir> but i think i got how it works now
2019-08-18T04:42:10 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T04:42:16 < mawk> if it's custom you need to select your chip
2019-08-18T04:42:17 < mawk> in cubemx
2019-08-18T04:42:20 < mawk> then configure the clock
2019-08-18T04:42:30 < mawk> you have a high speed oscillator ? and low speed ?
2019-08-18T04:42:42 < mawk> I can send you a template you can use and take note
2019-08-18T04:42:48 < mawk> if you tell me what's on the board
2019-08-18T04:43:23 < Feliwir> stm32l476je
2019-08-18T04:43:36 < mawk> thanks
2019-08-18T04:43:38 < Feliwir> 80mhz oscillator
2019-08-18T04:43:40 < mawk> what's the layout ?
2019-08-18T04:43:41 < mawk> 80MHz ??
2019-08-18T04:43:42 < mawk> not 8 ?
2019-08-18T04:43:54 < Feliwir> yeah 8
2019-08-18T04:43:55 < Feliwir> sorry :D
2019-08-18T04:43:56 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T04:44:00 < mawk> and no LSE ?
2019-08-18T04:44:09 < mawk> eg 32768 Hz
2019-08-18T04:44:13 < mawk> for RTC and stuff
2019-08-18T04:44:51 < mawk> let me open cube
2019-08-18T04:45:00 < Feliwir> No LSE (hear it for the first time)
2019-08-18T04:45:12 < mawk> Low Speed External oscillator
2019-08-18T04:45:15 < Feliwir> does it also generate SPI code?
2019-08-18T04:45:20 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T04:45:21 < Feliwir> since that's kind of my issue :P
2019-08-18T04:45:22 < mawk> spi configuration code
2019-08-18T04:45:29 < Feliwir> awesome
2019-08-18T04:45:30 < mawk> that you can do yourself I think
2019-08-18T04:45:34 < mawk> only the clock is a bit tricky
2019-08-18T04:45:47 < mawk> jsut for SPI remember to set up both the SPI peripheral, and the NVIC peripheral for the SPI interrupts
2019-08-18T04:46:06 < mawk> I don't like the new cubeMX UI, the precedent one was better
2019-08-18T04:46:15 < Feliwir> we don't have spi interrupts with our slaves
2019-08-18T04:47:22 < mawk> I don't mean interrupt line from slave
2019-08-18T04:47:32 < mawk> I mean spi peripheral on the stm32 sending interrupts to the stm32
2019-08-18T04:47:39 < mawk> eg interrupt for saying all data has been sent
2019-08-18T04:47:47 < mawk> you may not use them yourself, but the HAL driver does
2019-08-18T04:47:55 < mawk> so you need to enable SPI interrupts in the NVIC
2019-08-18T04:50:51 < mawk> ok so you selected the stm32l476je bare chip, I hope
2019-08-18T04:51:00 < mawk> you have LEDs on your custom boards Feliwir ? buttons ? debug headers ?
2019-08-18T04:51:05 < mawk> you need to configure all that
2019-08-18T04:51:11 < Feliwir> 2 LEDs
2019-08-18T04:51:19 < mawk> at the very least the debug headers
2019-08-18T04:51:29 < mawk> ok, you have exposed SWD debug headers ? or JTAG maybe ?
2019-08-18T04:51:39 < Feliwir> no debug headers. We forget those this time...
2019-08-18T04:51:42 < mawk> lol
2019-08-18T04:51:45 < mawk> how do you flash ?
2019-08-18T04:51:51 < Feliwir> jtag
2019-08-18T04:51:53 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T04:51:57 < Feliwir> through gpio
2019-08-18T04:51:57 < mawk> so you have jtag pins somewhere
2019-08-18T04:52:03 < mawk> through gpio ? what do you mean ?
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2019-08-18T04:52:09 < mawk> you didn't go for SWD ?
2019-08-18T04:52:23 < Feliwir> we flash with a raspberry pi
2019-08-18T04:52:24 < mawk> the JTAG and SWD pins are shared, you can use SWD if you broke out JTAG pins
2019-08-18T04:52:27 < mawk> hmm
2019-08-18T04:52:44 < Feliwir> yes, we use swd
2019-08-18T04:52:46 < mawk> you bitbang jtag then ?
2019-08-18T04:52:47 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T04:52:58 < mawk> not jtag then
2019-08-18T04:52:59 < mawk> good
2019-08-18T04:53:02 < mawk> swd is better
2019-08-18T04:53:08 < mawk> ok ok
2019-08-18T04:53:11 < mawk> let me sum this up
2019-08-18T04:54:14 < mawk> you selected stm32l476je bare chip in cube mx
2019-08-18T04:54:24 < mawk> wow it's a wlcsp package
2019-08-18T04:54:32 < mawk> why did you need this for ?
2019-08-18T04:54:48 < mawk> you put a drop of epoxy on top right ?
2019-08-18T04:56:02 < Feliwir> well as i said our landing pattern looks differently
2019-08-18T04:56:14 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T04:56:17 < mawk> you're sure of the reference then ?
2019-08-18T04:56:24 < Feliwir> Ah
2019-08-18T04:56:28 < Feliwir> it's the VGT6
2019-08-18T04:56:31 < mawk> ah ok
2019-08-18T04:56:37 < Feliwir> my bad, my docs were different
2019-08-18T04:57:30 < mawk> yeah the internals are the same normally anyway
2019-08-18T04:57:34 < mawk> not the pins tho maybe
2019-08-18T04:57:40 < mawk> ok so you have a LQFP100
2019-08-18T04:57:51 < Feliwir> yup
2019-08-18T04:58:11 < Feliwir> but we also have some BGAs on our pcb 
2019-08-18T04:58:22 < mawk> never soldered BGA yet
2019-08-18T04:58:30 < mawk> or maybe once, but just 4 balls
2019-08-18T04:58:32 < mawk> doesn't count
2019-08-18T04:58:46 < mawk> ok so you can sort alphabetically the peripherals by clicking on A→Z so it's easier to find
2019-08-18T04:58:55 < Feliwir> we got a cheap oven and do reflow soldering. It works perfectly
2019-08-18T04:59:01 < mawk> in the SYS peripheral for debug you put Serial Wire
2019-08-18T04:59:02 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T04:59:06 < mawk> I have only hot air for now
2019-08-18T04:59:09 < mawk> not enough €€€
2019-08-18T05:00:01 < mawk> timebase you can leave systick
2019-08-18T05:00:55 < mawk> now the clock
2019-08-18T05:00:59 < Feliwir> yup
2019-08-18T05:01:02 < Feliwir> following
2019-08-18T05:01:09 < mawk> in RCC peripheral for HSE you put crystal/ceramic resonator
2019-08-18T05:01:23 < mawk> and disable for LSE since you don't have any apparently
2019-08-18T05:01:49 < mawk> now you have a clock configuration tab
2019-08-18T05:02:08 < mawk> in input frequency in the left right left of HSE you put 8 MHz
2019-08-18T05:02:20 < mawk> then put HSE as the PLL source mux
2019-08-18T05:02:31 < mawk> and PLLCLK as the system clock mux
2019-08-18T05:02:36 < mawk> maybe better if I screenshot it lol
2019-08-18T05:02:55 < mawk> actually the solver is easy
2019-08-18T05:03:00 < mawk> just put 80 MHz in HCLK and hit enter
2019-08-18T05:03:03 < mawk> the solver will do the rest
2019-08-18T05:03:09 < Feliwir> where is that tab?
2019-08-18T05:03:31 < mawk> https://pix.watch/gxPpoe/nC_GUo.png
2019-08-18T05:03:34 < Feliwir> ah
2019-08-18T05:03:38 < Feliwir> got the solver thing
2019-08-18T05:04:26 < Feliwir> https://imgur.com/a/FJTHXIu
2019-08-18T05:04:33 < Feliwir> so is that right?
2019-08-18T05:04:40 < mawk> https://pix.watch/O3osWR/VvBVur.png
2019-08-18T05:04:42 < mawk> should look like this
2019-08-18T05:04:49 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T05:04:53 < mawk> hmm
2019-08-18T05:04:54 < mawk> no
2019-08-18T05:05:00 < mawk> put HSE as PLL source mux
2019-08-18T05:05:36 < Feliwir> the 3rd from top?
2019-08-18T05:05:40 < Feliwir> alright
2019-08-18T05:05:47 < mawk> yes
2019-08-18T05:05:57 < mawk> the diagram isn't exactly clear yeah
2019-08-18T05:06:05 < mawk> do just like in my screen
2019-08-18T05:06:09 < Feliwir> i can't select /1 then
2019-08-18T05:06:18 < Feliwir> it's at 160mhz now
2019-08-18T05:06:20 < Feliwir> and all red
2019-08-18T05:06:48 < Feliwir> ah it was x40
2019-08-18T05:06:51 < Feliwir> for some reason
2019-08-18T05:07:02 < mawk> yeah the solver will solve it
2019-08-18T05:07:07 < mawk> click "resolve clock issues"
2019-08-18T05:07:36 < mawk> or copy every number from my screen if it doesn't work
2019-08-18T05:08:06 < Feliwir> problem is i can't generate because of the firmware
2019-08-18T05:08:17 < mawk> what do you mean ?
2019-08-18T05:08:18 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T05:08:18 < Feliwir> when i select the firmware it says "can't unzip file"
2019-08-18T05:08:21 < mawk> yeah you need to download them
2019-08-18T05:08:22 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T05:08:26 < mawk> you have enough space on your disk ?
2019-08-18T05:08:26 < Feliwir> i have it locally
2019-08-18T05:08:31 < mawk> what do you mean ?
2019-08-18T05:08:34 < Feliwir> 200GB free
2019-08-18T05:08:35 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T05:08:41 < mawk> well let it redownload it if you have enough room
2019-08-18T05:08:42 < Feliwir> i downloaded the firmware seperatky
2019-08-18T05:08:51 < Feliwir> it doesn't do the download
2019-08-18T05:08:58 < mawk> in help → manage embedded software packages
2019-08-18T05:08:58 < Feliwir> saying it's not available
2019-08-18T05:09:04 < mawk> you install stm32L1 package
2019-08-18T05:09:08 < mawk> L4 sorry
2019-08-18T05:09:17 < mawk> the most recent one
2019-08-18T05:09:34 < Feliwir> It gives an error: "Not available"
2019-08-18T05:09:39 < Feliwir> You can download it manually
2019-08-18T05:09:45 < Feliwir> and that's what i did
2019-08-18T05:09:51 < Feliwir> but it doesn't work either
2019-08-18T05:10:00 < mawk> that's very odd
2019-08-18T05:10:04 < mawk> you're on linux ?
2019-08-18T05:10:09 < mawk> no proxy, selinux, antivirus, whatever ?
2019-08-18T05:10:19 < Feliwir> Windows atm
2019-08-18T05:10:22 < Feliwir> No proxies
2019-08-18T05:10:28 < mawk> hm
2019-08-18T05:10:58 < mawk> hmm hmm
2019-08-18T05:11:04 < Feliwir> but the programs seems to have no internet access
2019-08-18T05:11:08 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T05:11:14 < mawk> maybe you have to allow it somewhere
2019-08-18T05:11:15 < mawk> on windows
2019-08-18T05:11:23 < mawk> or you can use a local software package but never done that
2019-08-18T05:11:42 < mawk> yeah you can import a .zip, but when you do it it says can't unzip, right ?
2019-08-18T05:12:04 < mawk> you tried with the .zip right from ST site ?
2019-08-18T05:12:30 < Feliwir> yes
2019-08-18T05:12:46 < mawk> I can give you a .zip that works
2019-08-18T05:12:48 < mawk> hopefully
2019-08-18T05:12:50 < mawk> hold on
2019-08-18T05:13:19 < mawk> currently uploading
2019-08-18T05:13:26 < mawk> https://serveur.io/stm32cube_fw_l4_v1140.zip
2019-08-18T05:13:39 < mawk> straight from my own cubeMX that downloaded it
2019-08-18T05:13:52 < Feliwir> okay
2019-08-18T05:14:00 < Feliwir> let's hope my cubemx eats it :)
2019-08-18T05:14:03 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T05:14:15 < mawk> I'm impressed by my upload speeds
2019-08-18T05:14:35 < mawk> 713 MiB in 11 seconds
2019-08-18T05:16:11 < Feliwir> wow
2019-08-18T05:16:34 < Feliwir> how much is that?
2019-08-18T05:16:48 < Feliwir> almost 100MiB/s upload
2019-08-18T05:17:03 < mawk> 518 Mbps
2019-08-18T05:17:20 < mawk> I have a 1Gbps fiber
2019-08-18T05:17:34 < mawk> passing through a vpn
2019-08-18T05:17:52 < Feliwir> so you have 1 Gbps download?
2019-08-18T05:17:54 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T05:17:58 < mawk> in theory
2019-08-18T05:18:03 < mawk> if the server is near me
2019-08-18T05:21:38 < Feliwir> well my download is very slow
2019-08-18T05:21:44 < Feliwir> where i am righ now
2019-08-18T05:21:47 < mawk> ah :(
2019-08-18T05:21:50 < mawk> you can download with wget -c
2019-08-18T05:21:57 < mawk> so that you can restart again if it fails
2019-08-18T05:22:09 < mawk> also maybe there are fast downloaders for linux to start multiple concurrent downloads
2019-08-18T05:22:14 < mawk> to bypass QoS restrictions
2019-08-18T05:24:38 < Feliwir> I am on windows atm :)
2019-08-18T05:24:45 < Feliwir> Just my raspbi runs linux
2019-08-18T05:24:48 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T05:24:49 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T05:24:55 < mawk> but you have WSL and stuff
2019-08-18T05:25:07 < mawk> or cygwin or msys
2019-08-18T05:25:12 < Feliwir> yea the download is stable
2019-08-18T05:25:14 < Feliwir> almost finished
2019-08-18T05:25:15 < mawk> I do this the very few times I have to use windows
2019-08-18T05:28:48 < Feliwir> the filename of the zip is not valid
2019-08-18T05:28:59 < mawk> what :(
2019-08-18T05:29:10 < mawk> it's just alphanumerical
2019-08-18T05:29:25 < Feliwir> it must follow their pattern
2019-08-18T05:29:42 < Feliwir> e.g. stm32cube_fw_l4_v1140.zip
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2019-08-18T05:29:52 < Feliwir> (which he couldn't unzip for me)
2019-08-18T05:30:06 < mawk> yes
2019-08-18T05:30:10 < mawk> that's the pattern I used
2019-08-18T05:30:13 < mawk> no ?
2019-08-18T05:30:15 < Feliwir> no
2019-08-18T05:30:21 < mawk> stm32cube_fw_l4_v1140.zip
2019-08-18T05:30:32 < mawk> what's the difference with yours ?
2019-08-18T05:30:35 < mawk> [04:29:42] <Feliwir> e.g. stm32cube_fw_l4_v1140.zip
2019-08-18T05:30:39 < Feliwir> ah
2019-08-18T05:30:43 < Feliwir> nvm my vad
2019-08-18T05:30:45 < Feliwir> one sec
2019-08-18T05:31:00 < mawk> in the package.xml inside the .zip it says FW.L4.1.14.0
2019-08-18T05:31:25 < Feliwir> Problem during Unzip of File
2019-08-18T05:31:35 < Feliwir> Java
2019-08-18T05:32:49 < Feliwir> literally everything i do causes a messagebox to popup
2019-08-18T05:33:00 < Feliwir> saying that something doesnt work
2019-08-18T05:33:13 < mawk> uh
2019-08-18T05:33:20 < mawk> let me try to download the .zip and try
2019-08-18T05:34:30 < mawk> ahhhhhhhh
2019-08-18T05:34:35 < mawk> there is an alternate solution Feliwir 
2019-08-18T05:34:39 < mawk> in the Project Manager url
2019-08-18T05:34:47 < mawk> just direct the firmware location to your unzipped zip
2019-08-18T05:34:49 < mawk> or mine, whatever
2019-08-18T05:34:52 < mawk> should work fine
2019-08-18T05:35:04 < mawk> let me try
2019-08-18T05:35:12 < mawk> not url, tab, sorry
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2019-08-18T05:36:17 < Feliwir> i can't even do a "Refresh"
2019-08-18T05:36:39 < Feliwir> could you just send me the generated code please?
2019-08-18T05:37:00 < Cracki> uhhhh
2019-08-18T05:37:02 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T05:37:15 < mawk> please come enjoy the wonders of Cube with us Cracki 
2019-08-18T05:37:22 < Cracki> I'm using cube
2019-08-18T05:37:30 < Feliwir> The URL button doesn't work either
2019-08-18T05:37:47 < Cracki> for f1 and f3. so far it has worked, apart from the one time right at the beginning where truestudio failed in some undiagnosable way
2019-08-18T05:38:11 < Cracki> *cube... MX
2019-08-18T05:39:40 < mawk> yeah it may be a bit quirky at times Feliwir 
2019-08-18T05:39:48 < mawk> but otherwise it's a useful piece of software
2019-08-18T05:41:22 < mawk> let me send you the code
2019-08-18T05:41:25 < mawk> you're using gcc Feliwir ?
2019-08-18T05:41:45 < mawk> can you give me the pins you used for buttons and LEDs also ?
2019-08-18T05:41:52 < mawk> and tell me if the button is connect to ground or connect to VCC
2019-08-18T05:41:55 < mawk> to know which pullup to apply
2019-08-18T05:42:00 < mawk> same for the lds
2019-08-18T05:42:01 < mawk> leds
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2019-08-18T05:42:55 < mawk> you're using software chip select also I saw Feliwir ?
2019-08-18T05:43:05 < mawk> so you're aware you have to pull yourself the CSS ?
2019-08-18T05:43:11 < mawk> you didn't want to try hardware chip select ?
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2019-08-18T05:45:27 < mawk> :(
2019-08-18T05:45:31 < Cracki> sw is default. he might have no idea what it is or that he wants hw
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2019-08-18T05:45:52 < mawk> re Feliwir 
2019-08-18T05:45:58 < Feliwir> sorry mawk my pc crashed
2019-08-18T05:46:03 < mawk> he worte explicit code for sw Cracki 
2019-08-18T05:46:08 < Cracki> whyyyy
2019-08-18T05:46:15 < mawk> https://github.com/Tarcontar/pidrone/blob/master/src/bee/io/sensors.cpp#L55
2019-08-18T05:46:22 < Cracki> sure but whyyy
2019-08-18T05:46:34 < Cracki> why not have the peripheral handle the NSS pin
2019-08-18T05:46:35 < Feliwir> what's the issue?
2019-08-18T05:46:48 < Feliwir> in libopencm3 that has to be set
2019-08-18T05:46:57 < Feliwir> atleast every sample tells that :D
2019-08-18T05:46:59 < Cracki> the spi peripheral can handle the chipselect output pin on its own, if you have a single slave on the bus
2019-08-18T05:47:04 < mawk> sometimes it's hard
2019-08-18T05:47:08 < mawk> to do hardware nss
2019-08-18T05:47:10 < Cracki> oh you're using that...
2019-08-18T05:47:11 < Cracki> good luck
2019-08-18T05:47:23 < Feliwir> not a fan?
2019-08-18T05:47:25 < Cracki> if you use cube, best stick with ST's library
2019-08-18T05:47:27 < mawk> eg if the sequence is read the write or something
2019-08-18T05:47:41 < mawk> at first he wanted cube to compare generated code with his own libopencm3 code
2019-08-18T05:47:52 < mawk> [04:42:55] .:mawk:. you're using software chip select also I saw Feliwir ?
2019-08-18T05:47:52 < mawk> [04:43:05] .:mawk:. so you're aware you have to pull yourself the CSS ?
2019-08-18T05:47:52 < mawk> [04:43:11] .:mawk:. you didn't want to try hardware chip select ?
2019-08-18T05:48:04 < mawk> you missed that part Feliwir , also when I asked you on which pins are your LEDs and buttons
2019-08-18T05:48:16 < mawk> and which pins are the spi peripherals
2019-08-18T05:48:24 < Feliwir> LEDS are on GPIOC
2019-08-18T05:48:27 < Cracki> ah, things don't work because someone doesn't use the officially sanctioned way
2019-08-18T05:48:49 < mawk> so on PC something Feliwir ? which pin ?
2019-08-18T05:48:56 < mawk> but LEDs are not the most important anyway
2019-08-18T05:50:21 < mawk> ok so you use the SPI1 peripheral
2019-08-18T05:50:23 < Feliwir> PA3 for the BME280
2019-08-18T05:50:32 < Feliwir> (my sp1 peripheral)
2019-08-18T05:50:32 < mawk> the led is ...PC12 ?
2019-08-18T05:51:03 < Feliwir> yep
2019-08-18T05:51:06 < Feliwir> good guess?
2019-08-18T05:51:09 < mawk> lol
2019-08-18T05:51:11 < mawk> I just read it in your code
2019-08-18T05:51:13 < mawk> I found the .h
2019-08-18T05:51:15 < mawk> https://github.com/Tarcontar/pidrone/blob/master/src/bee/hat_pcb.h
2019-08-18T05:51:17 < Feliwir> ah
2019-08-18T05:51:19 < Feliwir> yup
2019-08-18T05:51:25 < mawk> ok so I can configure cubemx with that info
2019-08-18T05:51:30 < mawk> the led is which polarity ?
2019-08-18T05:51:38 < mawk> up will ligten it ?
2019-08-18T05:51:51 < mawk> that doesn't matter much anyway, just for initial state
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2019-08-18T05:52:14 < Feliwir> i really just need the BME to work
2019-08-18T05:53:50 < mawk> you had the docs of it at hand earlier ? for the SPI polarity 
2019-08-18T05:54:00 < mawk> without the proper polarity you can't talk to it
2019-08-18T05:54:20 < mawk> so let's follow Cracki advice and use hardware nss for now, it saves you some code
2019-08-18T05:55:34 < Cracki> I feel praised that you call my snark not just critique but even advice
2019-08-18T05:55:56 < Feliwir> https://github.com/Tarcontar/pidrone-docs/blob/master/doc/BST-BME280_DS001-11.pdf
2019-08-18T05:56:04 < Feliwir> lol :D
2019-08-18T05:56:38 < Cracki> bosch needs to make use of pdf's toc feature. makes browsing datashits easy
2019-08-18T05:56:59 < Cracki> waveforms pg 33
2019-08-18T05:57:14 < Cracki> pol/pha before that
2019-08-18T05:57:45 < Cracki> gah, automagic! you have to know what your sck is when csb falls
2019-08-18T05:58:02 < Feliwir> what does that mean?
2019-08-18T05:58:07 < Feliwir> My SCK is permanently low
2019-08-18T05:58:22 < Feliwir> trying to figure out why that is the case
2019-08-18T05:58:28 < mawk> just coding error
2019-08-18T05:58:31 < Cracki> that means either their "detection" is convenient, or it could be in the way
2019-08-18T05:58:37 < mawk> missing clock, etc
2019-08-18T05:58:42 < Cracki> ye coding/config error
2019-08-18T05:58:43 < mawk> cube will solve  thid
2019-08-18T05:58:59 < Cracki> are you sure it's low rather than the pin isn't driven at all?
2019-08-18T05:59:07 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T05:59:10 < mawk> he had a pullup on it
2019-08-18T05:59:16 < mawk> and it's still low
2019-08-18T05:59:18 < mawk> apparently
2019-08-18T05:59:27 < Cracki> also the spi peripheral will sense the bus and go hands-off if it senses anything weird
2019-08-18T05:59:34 < Cracki> that's part of multi master behavior
2019-08-18T05:59:36 < mawk> even for SCK ?
2019-08-18T05:59:47 < mawk> wow there is a NSS pulse mode now
2019-08-18T05:59:49 < Cracki> probably even for that, in multi-master
2019-08-18T05:59:54 < mawk> in that L4 chip
2019-08-18T06:00:05 < mawk> even less need for software nss now
2019-08-18T06:00:39 < mawk> I'm seeing the spi parameters in the bosch docs Feliwir 
2019-08-18T06:00:44 < mawk> then I generate the code and give it to you
2019-08-18T06:00:51 < Feliwir> awesome, thanks
2019-08-18T06:01:13 < mawk> ok so it's spi mode (1, 1)
2019-08-18T06:01:50 < Feliwir> so having polarity on 1 and rising edge?
2019-08-18T06:02:19 < mawk> yes data latched on rising edge
2019-08-18T06:02:20 < mawk> and no phase
2019-08-18T06:02:27 < mawk> I guess, from the diagrams page 39 of bosch pdf
2019-08-18T06:02:46 < mawk> ah, apparently the chip autodetects, even
2019-08-18T06:02:52 < mawk> you can use either (0, 0) or (1, 1)
2019-08-18T06:02:54 < mawk> magic
2019-08-18T06:03:02 < Feliwir> it's a great chip :P
2019-08-18T06:03:05 < mawk> like Cracki said
2019-08-18T06:03:15 < Feliwir> but i have no idea why i bought so small chips
2019-08-18T06:03:19 < Feliwir> solder hell
2019-08-18T06:03:23 < mawk> if you can solder them it's fine
2019-08-18T06:03:23 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T06:03:24 < mawk> lol
2019-08-18T06:03:25 < Cracki> got a hotplate?
2019-08-18T06:03:28 < mawk> yeah but it's a greater achievement
2019-08-18T06:03:30 < Cracki> hotplate solves everything
2019-08-18T06:03:30 < mawk> he has an oven
2019-08-18T06:03:36 < Cracki> ah :)
2019-08-18T06:03:45 < Feliwir> pizza oven
2019-08-18T06:03:50 < Feliwir> for 30€
2019-08-18T06:03:50 < mawk> ah lol
2019-08-18T06:03:55 < mawk> yeah maybe hotplate is better then
2019-08-18T06:04:03 < mawk> or pan full of sand, same thing
2019-08-18T06:04:10 < Cracki> still better than a hotplate. just stick a temp probe in it
2019-08-18T06:04:36 < Feliwir> the good thing is all our components seem fine with the temperature we pick :D
2019-08-18T06:05:43 < mawk> the NSS pulse mode doesn't seem needed here
2019-08-18T06:05:52 < mawk> why would cube enable it by default, I don't know
2019-08-18T06:06:16 < Cracki> pulse after 8 bits might even cause trouble. chipselect can be understood as packet framing
2019-08-18T06:06:22 < Cracki> it does? uh weird
2019-08-18T06:09:25 < mawk> ok so either phase and clock stays high when idle, or no phase and clock stays low when idle
2019-08-18T06:09:31 < mawk> these are the two modes your slave supports Feliwir 
2019-08-18T06:09:38 < mawk> I set the second one
2019-08-18T06:09:46 < mawk> clock should stay low when idle on the scope
2019-08-18T06:09:49 < Feliwir> okay
2019-08-18T06:10:20 < Feliwir> so no pulldown / pullup?
2019-08-18T06:13:55 < mawk> I don't think so, no
2019-08-18T06:14:01 < mawk> it'll be in the generated code
2019-08-18T06:14:06 < mawk> but you can verify in the RM
2019-08-18T06:14:07 < mawk> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/reference_manual/02/35/09/0c/4f/f7/40/03/DM00083560.pdf/files/DM00083560.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00083560.pdf
2019-08-18T06:14:17 < mawk> it's the SPI peripheral, not QUADSPI
2019-08-18T06:15:45 < Feliwir> it's for the f7 isn't it?
2019-08-18T06:15:53 < mawk> why f7 ?
2019-08-18T06:15:56 < mawk> it's for your L4
2019-08-18T06:16:58 < Feliwir> ah the link contained f7
2019-08-18T06:17:01 < Feliwir> so i was confused
2019-08-18T06:19:23 < mawk> ah yeah no just some random characters
2019-08-18T06:19:28 < mawk> using gcc and makefile ?
2019-08-18T06:19:34 < Feliwir> gcc and cmake
2019-08-18T06:19:42 < Feliwir> but a makefile will do
2019-08-18T06:19:43 < Feliwir> aswell
2019-08-18T06:20:02 < mawk> good
2019-08-18T06:20:29 < mawk> ok so I set hardware CSB, (0, 0)-SPI mode (no clock phase, low clock polarity)
2019-08-18T06:20:40 < mawk> all the SPI pins as alternate function push pull
2019-08-18T06:20:44 < mawk> with no pull up or pull down
2019-08-18T06:21:08 < Feliwir> Yes alternative functions 5 according to docs
2019-08-18T06:21:14 < mawk> maybe a pulldown on MISO but if the other chip is soldered meh
2019-08-18T06:21:17 < mawk> just for good measure maybe
2019-08-18T06:21:27 < Feliwir> but he guess the software does figure that out?
2019-08-18T06:21:41 < mawk> yes
2019-08-18T06:23:19 < mawk> the generated code is pretty heavy
2019-08-18T06:23:32 < mawk> you'll see
2019-08-18T06:23:41 < mawk> you can unpack tar.gz ? or I do a zip
2019-08-18T06:24:46 < Feliwir> yes
2019-08-18T06:24:47 < Feliwir> both
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2019-08-18T06:28:50 < mawk> Feliwir: https://serveur.io/L4Template.tar.gz
2019-08-18T06:29:20 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T06:29:26 < mawk> don't start download yet, I have to fix a thing
2019-08-18T06:29:56 < Feliwir> too late :)
2019-08-18T06:30:27 < mawk> lol
2019-08-18T06:30:45 < mawk> you can redo it now
2019-08-18T06:30:48 < mawk> if it wasn't already over
2019-08-18T06:31:24 < Feliwir> okay, thanks a lot
2019-08-18T06:31:28 < Feliwir> will read through it now
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2019-08-18T06:31:54 < mawk> I can split the code if you prefer
2019-08-18T06:31:58 < mawk> a .c and .h per peripheral so it's clearer
2019-08-18T06:33:21 < Feliwir> i spotted the first differences
2019-08-18T06:33:49 < Feliwir> instead of 1 - 20 i have 2 -40
2019-08-18T06:34:16 < mawk> you can redownload for the broken down version
2019-08-18T06:34:19 < mawk> it's clearer
2019-08-18T06:34:19 <@aandrew> oh man it's so nice to have ethernet working nicely again on STM32F7
2019-08-18T06:34:24 < mawk> what do you mean 1-20 ?
2019-08-18T06:34:43 <@aandrew> fixing the linker script so that DTCM isn't just part of the block of SRAM used makes things a lot nicer
2019-08-18T06:35:24 < mawk> when you know linker scripts you're the final boss of system programming
2019-08-18T06:35:50 < Feliwir> for the clock
2019-08-18T06:35:52 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T06:39:48 < mawk> yeah there may be multiple solutions to a single clock diagram
2019-08-18T06:39:56 < mawk> I just kept what cubemx autosolved
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2019-08-18T06:40:17 < mawk> you can try this code directly if you want, try to send a few bytes over spi
2019-08-18T06:40:24 < mawk> the api is pretty simple, everything is included
2019-08-18T06:40:39 < mawk> you just have to export GCC_PATH to the ARM gcc toolchain bin/ directory
2019-08-18T06:40:41 < mawk> and make, and flash it
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2019-08-18T06:43:11 < mawk> just try blocking mode to start
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2019-08-18T06:44:02 < Feliwir> why is GPIOH enabled?
2019-08-18T06:44:21 < mawk> where do you see that ?
2019-08-18T06:44:34 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T06:44:36 < Feliwir> MX_GPIO_Init
2019-08-18T06:44:36 < mawk> it's the oscillator
2019-08-18T06:44:43 < mawk> the external crystal of 8MHz
2019-08-18T06:45:09 < mawk> you need it
2019-08-18T06:45:31 < Feliwir> i didn't in opencm3, but it might have done that internally
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2019-08-18T06:48:56 < Feliwir> i'll try it tomorrow
2019-08-18T06:49:00 < Feliwir> its 6 am here
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2019-08-18T07:24:12 < mawk> [05:49:00] <Feliwir> thank you mawk for your infinite patience
2019-08-18T07:24:17 < mawk> oh, you're welcome Feliwir
2019-08-18T07:24:22 < mawk> have a great night
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2019-08-18T11:11:13 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmO6QkJhuu4
2019-08-18T11:13:57 < Cracki> whyyy china, why do you not have cheap molex connector clones on aliexpress?
2019-08-18T11:15:23 < Thorn> they have jst clones (much cheaper on lcsc than aliexpress)
2019-08-18T11:15:53 < Cracki> gotta check out lcsc then
2019-08-18T11:16:44 < Cracki> >family sites: easyeda, jlcpcb
2019-08-18T11:16:54 < Cracki> excellent
2019-08-18T11:17:43 < Thorn> realtime midi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxvoetXVrEQ
2019-08-18T11:19:16 < Cracki> >thinking that's enough googly eyes
2019-08-18T11:21:15 < Cracki> easyeda desktop version, intro be like "this is the toolbar" https://imgur.com/pW4OkUo
2019-08-18T11:53:04 < Steffanx> Why wont you use the efr32 sw blob radio stuff zyp? Or is it just a "I dont want to"?
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2019-08-18T12:37:26 < zyp> Steffanx, yes
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2019-08-18T12:38:43 < zyp> it's annoying to maintain integrations with third party libs, especially when they have a bunch of requirements for timing and hardware access and shit
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2019-08-18T12:42:03 < Steffanx> What was your plan again? You wanted something with scenes?
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2019-08-18T13:02:13 < Feliwir> mawk, so i compared my libopencm3 version to the hal one and can't spot many differences
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2019-08-18T13:32:34 < Mangy_Dog> i realise this might seem like a really strange question but i need a little clairifcation... FreeRTOS priority setting.... Is the higher the number the higher the priority? or is closer to zero the higher priority?
2019-08-18T13:37:20 < jpa-> interrupt priority or thread/task priority?
2019-08-18T13:37:52 < jpa-> https://www.freertos.org/RTOS-task-priority.html  "The idle task has priority zero (tskIDLE_PRIORITY)."   so higher is higher priority
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2019-08-18T13:38:26 < Mangy_Dog> nodnods thanks :) was also explined in another channel a minute ago :D but thanks still :)
2019-08-18T13:38:39 < jpa-> but on cortex-m, interrupt priorities go the other way around, 0 being highest priority
2019-08-18T13:39:35 < Mangy_Dog> yeah this is why it was confusing me as ive used it that way round before too
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2019-08-18T14:08:13 < feliwir> Does anyone has other ideas why the SCK on SPI1 for the stm32 l4 might not be working?
2019-08-18T14:08:22 < feliwir> *have
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2019-08-18T14:57:21 < Laurenceb> keeek the absolute state of google
2019-08-18T14:57:37 < Laurenceb> now it gives 0 results in uk if it thinks ur looking for pronz
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2019-08-18T15:00:04 < DisruptiveNL> Who uses J-Link SEGGER to debug?
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2019-08-18T15:36:37 < englishman> professionals
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2019-08-18T16:05:01 < Laurenceb> inb4 dongs changes the first 2 letters
2019-08-18T16:06:04 <@aandrew> DisruptiveNL: I do
2019-08-18T16:12:02 < DisruptiveNL> Ah oke. I do not see the source files when I debug?
2019-08-18T16:13:24 <@aandrew> sure you can, it just a JTAG/SWD access tool. use whatever software you like.
2019-08-18T16:13:33 <@aandrew> I use gdb and ozone depending on the situaiton
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2019-08-18T16:14:08 < DisruptiveNL> oke when I flash hex I can imagine there is no sourcecode files? With elf file I thought there would be?
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2019-08-18T16:23:54 <@aandrew> hex has no source info, correct
2019-08-18T16:24:00 <@aandrew> you flash the hex just fine though
2019-08-18T16:24:06 <@aandrew> you load the .elf into the debugger
2019-08-18T16:24:23 <@aandrew> did you compile your program with debugging info (-g with gcc, for example)
2019-08-18T16:28:09 < DisruptiveNL> can this be in two steps?
2019-08-18T16:28:36 < DisruptiveNL> I have 2 elf files (MPU 2 phase build user and kernel) and corresponding 2 hex files
2019-08-18T16:28:51 < DisruptiveNL> I use Ozone and Flash 6.28a from Segger
2019-08-18T16:28:53 <@aandrew> I *think* you can do something like that with gdb. I've never done it though
2019-08-18T16:29:25 < DisruptiveNL> I use make
2019-08-18T16:32:58 < DisruptiveNL>  gcc -g -Wall
2019-08-18T16:47:43 < jpa-> you can either combine the elfs or just load one for the part that you want to debug
2019-08-18T16:48:22 < jpa-> you can use "file myfw.elf" to see if it contains debugging info or not
2019-08-18T16:53:36 <@aandrew> huh, I didn't know you could combine elf files
2019-08-18T16:54:05 <@aandrew> usually if you're building for debug you should use -Og as well instead of -Os (it optimizes but only in ways that don't really muck with debugging)
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2019-08-18T19:35:29 < Mangy_Dog> is pb3 on stm43f103 a special pin that cant be pulled up or something? Having strange issues, thinking the pin might be dead, not cant see how, no way high V could get to it
2019-08-18T19:35:52 < Mangy_Dog> its not even shorting to ground
2019-08-18T19:35:55 < Mangy_Dog> its just stuck low
2019-08-18T19:36:47 < Mangy_Dog> stm32f103
2019-08-18T19:39:19 < mawk> no it's not special
2019-08-18T19:39:48 < mawk> it is a jtag pin, and a SWO pin
2019-08-18T19:39:56 < mawk> so if you enabled SWO or JTAG you may not use it
2019-08-18T19:40:05 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2019-08-18T19:40:18 < Mangy_Dog> that might be whats going on
2019-08-18T19:40:20 < mawk> else it can be used as a timer channel, as a GPIO, as a SPI SCK pin, etc
2019-08-18T19:40:21 < Mangy_Dog> but confused
2019-08-18T19:40:43 < Mangy_Dog> using an stlink to do my flashing
2019-08-18T19:40:54 < Mangy_Dog> but its on PA13 and 14
2019-08-18T19:41:24 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-18T19:41:29 < mawk> the two SWD pins
2019-08-18T19:42:31 < Mangy_Dog> so if i unplug my stlink the pin would revert to normal mode?
2019-08-18T19:43:16 < mawk> PB3 ? no
2019-08-18T19:43:28 < mawk> just make sure you're booted into your code
2019-08-18T19:43:32 < mawk> you can leave the stlink where it is
2019-08-18T19:44:02 < Mangy_Dog> im just flashing from arduino ide with the stlink
2019-08-18T19:44:39 < Mangy_Dog> so how do i make sure the pin runs in its normal mode?
2019-08-18T19:44:52 < Mangy_Dog> a digital imput
2019-08-18T19:44:56 < mawk> you set it as input
2019-08-18T19:45:00 < Mangy_Dog> i have
2019-08-18T19:45:01 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2019-08-18T19:45:07 < mawk> can I see the code ?
2019-08-18T19:45:13 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: you need to set AFIO->MAPR so that jtag mode is disabled
2019-08-18T19:45:13 < mawk> but I've never used arduino stuff with stm32
2019-08-18T19:45:42 < Mangy_Dog> https://hastebin.com/amuhopokuh.cpp
2019-08-18T19:45:58 < Mangy_Dog> ive liturally made a sketch to test the pin
2019-08-18T19:46:09 < mawk> you didn't set the pin function in your code
2019-08-18T19:46:24 < mawk> the pin can be jtag, swo, spi, timer, etc
2019-08-18T19:46:36 < Mangy_Dog> pinMode(pin,(INPUT_PULLUP); ?
2019-08-18T19:46:51 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: see reference manual section 9.4.2 AF remap; SWJ_CFG is by default 0 = full jtag, which takes over the JTDO pin = PB3
2019-08-18T19:48:07 < Mangy_Dog> tell me one thing, can i use PB3 or not? if im flashing via stlink?
2019-08-18T19:48:19 < mawk> you're not using it with a STLink
2019-08-18T19:48:22 < mawk> so yes, you can use it
2019-08-18T19:48:27 < mawk> just set the pin function correctly
2019-08-18T19:48:28 < jpa-> you can, but you need to enable it separately in AFIO register by software
2019-08-18T19:49:04 < Mangy_Dog> and which manual? theres several datasheets for stm32f103
2019-08-18T19:49:12 < jpa-> try  pin_SetF1AFPin(AFIO_SWJ_NOJTAG);
2019-08-18T19:49:17 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: reference manual
2019-08-18T19:49:39 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/reference_manual/59/b9/ba/7f/11/af/43/d5/CD00171190.pdf/files/CD00171190.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00171190.pdf
2019-08-18T19:49:40 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2019-08-18T19:51:01 < jpa-> or equivalently, __HAL_AFIO_REMAP_SWJ_NOJTAG();
2019-08-18T19:51:28 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: yeah, that one
2019-08-18T19:52:46 < Mangy_Dog> the compiler doesnt like that line
2019-08-18T19:53:10 < jpa-> i've never used stm32 arduino, so dunno better
2019-08-18T19:53:31 < jpa-> maybe you need to include something
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2019-08-18T19:55:38 < jpa-> it's somewhat hard to track down, when the Arduino_Core_STM32 is written in C but the API for users is somewhere else in C++
2019-08-18T19:55:53 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2019-08-18T19:57:29 < Mangy_Dog> im certainly going to need to get this workinmg
2019-08-18T19:57:37 < jpa-> if you have the register mappings in scope, you can just do   AFIO->MAPR |= 0x02000000;
2019-08-18T19:57:48 < Mangy_Dog> i have no idea how to do hal
2019-08-18T19:57:57 < Mangy_Dog> so no idea how to set that
2019-08-18T19:58:09 < Mangy_Dog> normally pinMode is meant to set the pin in the backend
2019-08-18T19:58:19 < Mangy_Dog> basically do all that "stuff"
2019-08-18T19:58:46 < jpa-> you mean, do some random stuff that someone needed, not what you need, and hide all the details so that you can't do what you need
2019-08-18T19:59:00 < Mangy_Dog> i guess so
2019-08-18T19:59:01 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2019-08-18T20:03:40 < canton7> abstractions are great, right up to the point where they don't do what you want
2019-08-18T20:07:32 < Mangy_Dog> even the hal version how and where do i put that line?
2019-08-18T20:10:04 < canton7> make sure it's run on startup
2019-08-18T20:10:21 < Mangy_Dog> pin_SetF1AFPin(AFIO_SWJ_NOJTAG); or this
2019-08-18T20:11:00 < Mangy_Dog> and im not using arduino core stm32
2019-08-18T20:11:03 < Mangy_Dog> im using rogers core
2019-08-18T20:12:12 < Mangy_Dog> Arduino_Core_STM32 is the official stm32 core
2019-08-18T20:12:20 < Mangy_Dog> rogers core and its forks are the more developed core
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2019-08-18T20:24:31 < Mangy_Dog> well PB3 and 4 :p
2019-08-18T20:25:17 < mawk> you can try HAL instead of the arduino thing Mangy_Dog 
2019-08-18T20:25:31 < mawk> or libopencm3
2019-08-18T20:25:33 < Mangy_Dog> i dont know how to do that
2019-08-18T20:25:53 < mawk> HAL is pretty easy to get started, you have a graphical tool to set pins and peripherals and generate code
2019-08-18T20:25:55 < Mangy_Dog> yay PA15 is also reserved in jtag 
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2019-08-18T20:26:04 < mawk> yeah that's why you set pin functions
2019-08-18T20:26:10 < mawk> you always do this
2019-08-18T20:26:20 < mawk> pins can have like 8 different functions
2019-08-18T20:26:32 < mawk> there are more internal "pins" than external pins so they are multiplexed
2019-08-18T20:26:36 < mawk> it's easy to comprehend
2019-08-18T20:27:30 < Mangy_Dog> gah cubemx is cloud based now
2019-08-18T20:27:48 < mawk> what ?
2019-08-18T20:27:54 < mawk> where did you see that ?
2019-08-18T20:27:57 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: ok, with roger's libmaple based code, maybe it's  enableDebugPorts();
2019-08-18T20:28:01 < mawk> it's a java app
2019-08-18T20:28:09 < jpa-> or  afio_cfg_debug_ports(AFIO_DEBUG_SW_ONLY);
2019-08-18T20:28:37  * canton7 was using stm32cubemx on Friday. Definitely a PC app.
2019-08-18T20:28:40 < Mangy_Dog> just the new version wants to go online to use the core database doesnt appear locally stored any more
2019-08-18T20:29:02 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T20:29:07 < mawk> well you have to dl software packages anyway
2019-08-18T20:29:11 < mawk> it has always been online
2019-08-18T20:29:15 < Mangy_Dog> wouldnt enableDebugPorts turn it on?
2019-08-18T20:29:27 < mawk> it would set it to SWD and not JTAG, I guess
2019-08-18T20:29:35 < mawk> you don't want to disable SWD
2019-08-18T20:29:36 < jpa-> https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/Arduino_STM32/blob/9d46a1c27d4dc9dd4df06b76a1d81684519d8acc/STM32F4/cores/maple/wirish_debug.h  yeah, full jtag is commented out
2019-08-18T20:29:43 < Mangy_Dog> as long as i dont loose stlink upload access
2019-08-18T20:29:55 < Mangy_Dog> that would brick my device as thats my only way to upload firmware
2019-08-18T20:30:07 < jpa-> even if you mess up, just hold down reset button because full jtag is always enabled when reset is active
2019-08-18T20:30:18 < jpa-> same applies for power saving modes
2019-08-18T20:30:47 < Mangy_Dog> disableDebugPorts
2019-08-18T20:30:51 < Mangy_Dog> not enable :p
2019-08-18T20:30:52 < mawk> no, not disable
2019-08-18T20:30:56 < mawk> enableDebugPorts();
2019-08-18T20:31:01 < Mangy_Dog> o.O
2019-08-18T20:31:04 < mawk> it will enable SWD, and not enable JTAG
2019-08-18T20:31:06 < mawk> this is what you want
2019-08-18T20:31:09 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2019-08-18T20:31:12 < mawk> just look at the link jpa- gave
2019-08-18T20:31:22 < Mangy_Dog> i dont have a reset button this is a custom board
2019-08-18T20:31:29 < Mangy_Dog> with no bootloader
2019-08-18T20:31:29 < mawk> really ?
2019-08-18T20:31:37 < mawk> you don't have BOOT0 jumper or button either ?
2019-08-18T20:31:43 < mawk> who would remove reset from a devboard
2019-08-18T20:31:44 < Mangy_Dog> well i have a pad
2019-08-18T20:31:49 < Mangy_Dog> its not a dev board
2019-08-18T20:31:52 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T20:31:57 < Mangy_Dog> its a final product
2019-08-18T20:32:04 < Mangy_Dog> hopefully >.>
2019-08-18T20:32:08 < mawk> final product without debugging header
2019-08-18T20:32:12 < mawk> which would include NRST
2019-08-18T20:32:18 < Mangy_Dog> well stlink and serial out
2019-08-18T20:32:36 < mawk> so you just broke out SWDIO, SWCLK, GND, TX, RX
2019-08-18T20:32:38 < mawk> not NRST
2019-08-18T20:33:13 < jpa-> i used to only have SWDIO/SWCLK/GND; nowadays i always include NRST also and if i have the pin available, PB3/SWO also
2019-08-18T20:33:22 < jpa-> but one can always tweezer it
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2019-08-18T20:33:48 < Mangy_Dog> well actually
2019-08-18T20:33:55 < Mangy_Dog> boot1 and boot2 do have solder jumpers
2019-08-18T20:34:02 < mawk> ah
2019-08-18T20:34:05 < mawk> well not very convenient
2019-08-18T20:34:10 < mawk> anyway yeah you can hook up a wire to NRST
2019-08-18T20:34:12 < Mangy_Dog> ahh and nrst
2019-08-18T20:34:16 < mawk> in any case
2019-08-18T20:34:18 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i did
2019-08-18T20:34:21 < mawk> ah good
2019-08-18T20:34:25 < Mangy_Dog> just as a contact pad though rather than button
2019-08-18T20:34:30 < mawk> yeah that's good anyway
2019-08-18T20:34:40 < mawk> so you can't brick it ! but use enableDebugPorts(); still
2019-08-18T20:35:24 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2019-08-18T20:37:37 < Mangy_Dog> woohooo
2019-08-18T20:37:39 < Mangy_Dog> works
2019-08-18T20:37:59 < jpa-> works until someone randomly uncomments that line ;)
2019-08-18T20:38:04 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2019-08-18T20:38:47 < Mangy_Dog> well luckily i think rogers finished working on the core
2019-08-18T20:38:49 < Mangy_Dog> so
2019-08-18T20:38:52 < Mangy_Dog> shouldnt get changed :p
2019-08-18T20:39:13 < jpa-> finished = bored?
2019-08-18T20:39:22 < Mangy_Dog> bit of both i think
2019-08-18T20:40:15 < jpa-> https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/Arduino_STM32/commit/679217dfafc66b0f0a3c3741396328c8e70df5ad  it was from a random config, probably commented just for testing and accidentally committed
2019-08-18T20:40:18 < jpa-> *commit
2019-08-18T20:40:42 < Mangy_Dog> well i grabbed the hal call anyway
2019-08-18T20:40:52 < Mangy_Dog> commented out for now so if it changes i can just use the direct call
2019-08-18T20:42:36 < Mangy_Dog> still one other serious issue to fix, my analog sticks arent working
2019-08-18T20:42:43 < Mangy_Dog> not entirely sure why
2019-08-18T20:42:52 < Mangy_Dog> i think its the contact fpc cable
2019-08-18T20:47:18 <@aandrew> jpa-: wtf is that
2019-08-18T20:47:35 <@aandrew> looks like a new board definition for arduino?
2019-08-18T20:48:01 < jpa-> no idea
2019-08-18T20:53:35 < Mangy_Dog> thanks again guys thats been a big help
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2019-08-18T20:54:29 < Mangy_Dog> and this is the easy part :p
2019-08-18T20:54:55 < Mangy_Dog> i still need to learn how to read data and edit GPIO on an orange pi to run a cooling fan D:
2019-08-18T20:55:22 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: so will you take a bath now?
2019-08-18T20:55:39 < Mangy_Dog> :o
2019-08-18T20:55:48 < Mangy_Dog> im not that smelly
2019-08-18T20:55:55 < jpa-> but you're mangy
2019-08-18T20:56:02 <@aandrew> and a dog
2019-08-18T20:56:03 < Mangy_Dog> always am
2019-08-18T20:56:04 < Mangy_Dog> D:
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2019-08-18T21:27:43 < Steffanx> dogs are always smelly.
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2019-08-18T21:57:56 < englishman> Steffanx, how has ARROW wronged you this week
2019-08-18T21:58:12 < Steffanx> i havent ordered stuff from ARROW much lately
2019-08-18T21:58:23 < Steffanx> there?
2019-08-18T21:58:58 -!- feliwir [~feliwir@2a02:8071:aa9:4300:99bc:5c85:a72e:78d5] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
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2019-08-18T22:16:16 < englishman> they are making last year's accounting hard as fuck
2019-08-18T22:16:39 < englishman> six shipments on a $100 order, 4 of those shipments valued less than $5
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2019-08-18T22:23:12 < Steffanx> Yeah, one should bill ARROW for the shitload of time it takes to get rid of the packaging.
2019-08-18T22:23:25 < Steffanx> All the useless paper.
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2019-08-18T23:10:19 < superbia> howdy
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2019-08-18T23:32:27 < Steffanx> Had some lamb lately superbia?
2019-08-18T23:32:37 < superbia> fuck no
2019-08-18T23:32:42 < superbia> it's nice to see you
2019-08-18T23:33:03 < mawk> what's wrong about lamb
2019-08-18T23:35:29 < Steffanx> You're welcome superbia
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2019-08-18T23:38:51 < Steffanx> Whats happening in superbia-land?
2019-08-18T23:39:36 -!- psprint [~psprint@91.245.82.2] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-18T23:43:02 < superbia> meh, soon TM new projects
2019-08-18T23:43:12 < superbia> new team, new people
2019-08-18T23:43:24 < superbia> but you will always have a place in my hearth Steffanx 
2019-08-18T23:43:39 < Steffanx> awh are you leaving us
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2019-08-18T23:47:12 < superbia> yup
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2019-08-18T23:48:32 < Steffanx> i see
2019-08-18T23:52:38 < superbia> I would've never guessed that I would be surrounded with amazing people that know, well everything
2019-08-18T23:53:32 < superbia> so there's not much sense into maintaining an irc presence
2019-08-18T23:53:41 < Steffanx> lolyou.
2019-08-18T23:53:53 < Steffanx> You already had Ranewen.
2019-08-18T23:54:08 < qyx> you shall not replace irc with real people
2019-08-18T23:55:10 < Steffanx> No one knows what superbia does for a living. So how are the irc people supposed to know what to help him with?
--- Day changed Mon Aug 19 2019
2019-08-19T00:02:17 < Steffanx> Btw what if we cant do without you superbia  
2019-08-19T00:03:54 < superbia> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/Appnotes/TB3221-Core-Independent-Voltage-Window-Signal-Detection-90003221A.pdf
2019-08-19T00:07:20 < englishman> fedex's billing interfaces sorts their dates by DD-MMM-YYYY
2019-08-19T00:07:26 < englishman> yes, sorts
2019-08-19T00:09:42 < superbia> DD-MM-YYYY is very european
2019-08-19T00:34:10 -!- kakimir [b237b2c4@178-55-178-196.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-19T00:34:24 < kakimir> hello dear
2019-08-19T00:36:14 < Steffanx> Hi sir
2019-08-19T00:36:55 < superbia> hello
2019-08-19T00:37:16 < kakimir> how does one huge shit fly stay alive in my room? what does it eat?
2019-08-19T00:38:46 < superbia> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB6UWGeNePk
2019-08-19T00:39:05 < qyx> you
2019-08-19T00:39:30 < rajkosto> it licks your sweat from your eyelashes when you sleep
2019-08-19T00:40:01 < PaulFertser> Anybody can tell what kind of "playing" is implied in the classical song https://genius.com/T-bone-walker-stormy-monday-call-it-stormy-monday-lyrics ?
2019-08-19T00:41:18 < kakimir> rajkosto: it's rubbing it's "hands" - expectingly on wall next to me
2019-08-19T00:41:30 < rajkosto> MANDIBLES
2019-08-19T00:42:01 < kakimir> no
2019-08-19T00:42:58 < rajkosto> youre right its not called that
2019-08-19T00:43:03 < kakimir> it's first pair of feet.. I don't know what kind of shit flys you have there
2019-08-19T00:44:49 < PaulFertser> rajkosto: actually, something like that actually happens: "Please, more tears: a case of a moth feeding on antbird tears in central Amazonia" https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ecy.2518 "lachryphagous" is the key word here
2019-08-19T00:44:50 < rajkosto> their taste organ is on those feet
2019-08-19T00:45:20 < kakimir> my spiders have been lazy with their net jobbs latelly
2019-08-19T00:46:08 < kakimir> one big net on the top corner would do it
2019-08-19T00:46:23 < rajkosto> just get fly tape
2019-08-19T00:46:32 < rajkosto> put it near sources of light like window glass
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2019-08-19T00:52:39 < kakimir> Laurenceb: recommend movie
2019-08-19T00:53:02 < superbia> need movie
2019-08-19T00:53:27 < kakimir> yes
2019-08-19T00:53:42 < rajkosto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Sq1Nr58hM
2019-08-19T00:56:11 < kakimir> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostalgie
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2019-08-19T01:07:33 < Cracki> kakimir, just click the pictures https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle-Neustadt
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2019-08-19T01:08:16 < kakimir> perfection?
2019-08-19T01:09:09 < Cracki> they narrowly avoided brutalism
2019-08-19T01:09:17 < Cracki> I like the sense of vastness tho
2019-08-19T01:10:11 < Cracki> enriches old towns, combats sprawl (like two-story houses tiled for miles and miles)
2019-08-19T01:10:44 < Cracki> also avoids placing sky scrapers right by roads, which just leaves you feeling like you're stuck in a well
2019-08-19T01:12:16 < kakimir> very good
2019-08-19T01:12:17 < Cracki> i prefer high rise residency to sprawl. sprawl just disorients.
2019-08-19T01:12:44 < Cracki> how the fuck do muricans find their home in the suburbs? every road, every intersection, they all look the same
2019-08-19T01:13:16 < Cracki> with grids you have to remember two numbers, that's good enough. also everything looks different.
2019-08-19T01:14:42 < kakimir> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Espoon_Tapiola_kes%C3%A4ll%C3%A4.jpg
2019-08-19T01:15:22 < Cracki> ye that looks nice
2019-08-19T01:15:42 < Cracki> could use some climbing ivy on the facades
2019-08-19T01:16:06 < Cracki> single raepd tree looks wastelandish
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2019-08-19T01:21:32 < salcedo> Cracki: easy
2019-08-19T01:21:44 < salcedo> though i don't live in sprawl
2019-08-19T01:22:10 < salcedo> but when i did, you learn to identify patterns
2019-08-19T01:22:35 < salcedo> "big green mexican gangster truck always parked at corner before i turn left."
2019-08-19T01:23:13 < kakimir> Cracki: other architecture recommendations?
2019-08-19T01:23:36 < Cracki> >_> not atm
2019-08-19T01:23:42 < salcedo> "prostitutes always at this intersection. my house is the 3rd one on the left from here."
2019-08-19T01:23:55 < Cracki> unless you mean marbled cat on scratching post
2019-08-19T01:28:06 < Cracki> damn, that Halle place has about the same population as the place i'm at, and this place has no buildings higher than 5 stories
2019-08-19T01:32:18 < Cracki> I find that kinda nice. space for motor traffic, bicycles, pedestrians, AND greenery. not everything on ground level, buildings of varying heights, implicit landmarks visible for a kilometer usable for orientation. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Chorweiler-panorama.jpg
2019-08-19T01:42:49 < kakimir> Cracki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City#/media/File:Kowloon_Walled_City.jpg
2019-08-19T01:43:25 < Cracki> looks like a photoshop of a bombed/deserted city on top of a working one
2019-08-19T01:44:27 < Cracki> haha that's actually real https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/KWC_-_1989_Aerial.jpg
2019-08-19T01:44:38 < kakimir> population density record: 1.255million/km2
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2019-08-19T02:04:16 < Cracki> 50k in that area.. I'm trying to picture it
2019-08-19T02:05:19 < Cracki> 10 stories, 5k per layer, that's a grid of 70 by 70... yeah they'd have to stuff a handful in every room
2019-08-19T02:08:27 < Cracki> 1.255 meatbags per m^2 of ground, but even spread vertically it's still dense
2019-08-19T02:16:51 < jadew> I'd love to live there
2019-08-19T02:16:54 < jadew> for a day or two
2019-08-19T02:20:56 < Cracki> insect living, insect food. free range living, free range food.
2019-08-19T02:21:24 < jadew> not sure which is better
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2019-08-19T03:19:47 < jadew> NSFW, but did you guys know about this type of bras? I think they're the best invention since thongs: http://66.media.tumblr.com/120dcc9cd9d9a881df03b4633f9d31bd/tumblr_o06s1zHhR81sm8q1fo1_1280.jpg
2019-08-19T03:20:21 < jadew> I looked up that chick, she's 600% hotter in the picture I just linked than in any other picture
2019-08-19T03:20:24 < Cracki> I see you've discovered tumblr
2019-08-19T03:20:43 < Cracki> stick to the photo blogs and you'll be fine
2019-08-19T03:20:48 < jadew> Cracki, actually, I tracked that image down from youtube thumbnail :P
2019-08-19T03:20:53 < Cracki> heh
2019-08-19T03:21:13 < Cracki> >rae hall kylie rae ree ree ree
2019-08-19T03:21:21 < jadew> oh, you know her?
2019-08-19T03:21:25 < Cracki> google does
2019-08-19T03:21:40 < jadew> thought that was kind of weird :)
2019-08-19T03:21:41 < Cracki> >caring about the name of a woman
2019-08-19T03:23:08 < Cracki> looks fun in her instagram photos... born 92, is 27 now, danger
2019-08-19T03:23:36 < jadew> what's dangerous about that?
2019-08-19T03:24:05 < jadew> it's not like I have a chance to hook up with her
2019-08-19T03:24:24 < Cracki> :P
2019-08-19T03:24:31 < Cracki> the world needs better role models
2019-08-19T03:24:53 < jadew> I think she's fine
2019-08-19T03:24:56 < jadew> pun intended
2019-08-19T03:25:04 < Cracki> https://twitter.com/kylieeerae/status/1132072622408097792
2019-08-19T03:25:40 < Cracki> ic she's inked
2019-08-19T03:26:04 < Cracki> >stars-and-stripes thong
2019-08-19T03:26:08 < Cracki> I like the idea
2019-08-19T03:26:50 < jadew> do they make money from instagram?
2019-08-19T03:27:11 < jadew> or is she just advertising herself for potential sugar daddies?
2019-08-19T03:27:18 < Cracki> I think the latter
2019-08-19T03:27:29 < Cracki> and I think she might be into girls
2019-08-19T03:27:41 < Cracki> I get the vibe
2019-08-19T03:27:48 < jadew> you say that about every picture I post lol
2019-08-19T03:27:55 < Cracki> wat
2019-08-19T03:28:13 < jadew> last time you said a guy in a photo might actually be a girl
2019-08-19T03:28:31 < Cracki> anyway, that bra did frame her fruits nicely
2019-08-19T03:28:40 < Cracki> >_>
2019-08-19T03:28:43 < jadew> I know, they're amazing
2019-08-19T03:28:58 < jadew> I think it's because it multiplies the cleavage
2019-08-19T03:29:20 < jadew> instead of one, you get like... 4 + 4 sideboobs
2019-08-19T03:29:32 < jadew> it's briliant
2019-08-19T03:30:12 < Cracki> https://scontent-frx5-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/8f56974f3d37821676d6ca03c9b5e1df/5DF7F372/t51.2885-15/e35/c0.180.1440.1440/s480x480/51834267_150634989271798_6562915279993603690_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.cdninstagram.com
2019-08-19T03:32:32 <@aandrew> she's cute
2019-08-19T03:32:52 < jadew> I wonder what it's like to date someone that's so self-absorbed tho
2019-08-19T03:33:10 < jadew> most people are, but her thing is... herself
2019-08-19T03:37:19 < salcedo> if only alexa had a vag, oh wait...
2019-08-19T03:37:27 < jadew> that said, I wouldn't mind being so hot that 2.6 million people would droll over me
2019-08-19T03:38:13 < salcedo> nothing a few snapchat filters can't do for you, jadew.
2019-08-19T03:38:23 < salcedo> you'll be well on your way to becoming an "influencer"
2019-08-19T03:38:24 < Cracki> isn't alexa that fleshlight-shaped talking microchip?
2019-08-19T03:38:41 < salcedo> jadew: how was django unchained btw?
2019-08-19T03:38:55 < mawk> salcedo: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-49151042
2019-08-19T03:38:57 < jadew> salcedo, didn't see it all, stopped about half way through
2019-08-19T03:38:57 < mawk> this would happen
2019-08-19T03:39:01 < jadew> maybe I'll resume tonight
2019-08-19T03:39:19 < Cracki> hell of a filter
2019-08-19T03:39:29 < mawk> yeah, magical filter
2019-08-19T03:39:38 < jadew> wtf
2019-08-19T03:39:41 < jadew> filters can do that?
2019-08-19T03:39:48 < mawk> apparently
2019-08-19T03:40:00 < Cracki> well you can use a facerig and an nvidia rtx for best optics
2019-08-19T03:40:05 < Cracki> https://facerig.com
2019-08-19T03:40:16 < Cracki> but you have to swap the raccoon out for zerg queen first
2019-08-19T03:40:25 < salcedo> mawk: i don't know what i'm looking at. the site's css won't load unless i enable a bunch of trackers.
2019-08-19T03:40:34 < Cracki> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/123E0/production/_108102747_picofwoman.jpg
2019-08-19T03:40:36 < Cracki> ^
2019-08-19T03:41:01 < salcedo> jadew: though i don't know if non-americans can fully consume the humor of that movie.
2019-08-19T03:41:10 < jadew> with a filter like that you can make your own porn
2019-08-19T03:41:15 < jadew> by yourself
2019-08-19T03:42:07 < jadew> salcedo, didn't find it particularly funny
2019-08-19T03:42:22 < salcedo> yea figured :)
2019-08-19T03:42:57 < jadew> but it did open my appetite for movies with sand
2019-08-19T03:42:57 < salcedo> it's one of the last great movies that could masterfully execute racially charged satire without offending people AT THE TIME... now? it might as well be mein kampf
2019-08-19T03:43:04 < Cracki> that filter... I'd very much like to know the tech behind it
2019-08-19T03:43:04 < jadew> so I think I'll watch indian jones soon
2019-08-19T03:43:11 <@aandrew> heh
2019-08-19T03:43:20 <@aandrew> indian jones sounds like a terrible bollywood knockoff
2019-08-19T03:43:21 < Cracki> faking hair is hard, but redoing the face isn't so much
2019-08-19T03:43:44 < jadew> lol aandrew, typo
2019-08-19T03:44:18 < jadew> Cracki, the filter did her boobs too
2019-08-19T03:44:37 < salcedo> if you want good movies with sand, liveleak syria vids
2019-08-19T03:45:01 < Cracki> something doesn't add up
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2019-08-19T03:46:18 < Cracki> ah! the left one is a different person, irrelevant to the story
2019-08-19T03:46:34 < Cracki> the right one is the one they talk about, and that's the unfiltered picture.
2019-08-19T03:46:35 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8m4jYaALIA
2019-08-19T03:46:40 < salcedo> xanax is starting to kick in \o/
2019-08-19T03:46:47 < Cracki> god fucking damnit these retard journos and their shit reporting
2019-08-19T03:46:59 < mawk> I hate xanax
2019-08-19T03:47:03 < mawk> you can't work on that
2019-08-19T03:47:08 < salcedo> it's a necessary evil from time to time
2019-08-19T03:47:26 < Cracki> google "Qiao Biluo" for her usually filtered likeness
2019-08-19T03:48:09 < Cracki> that's the same one now filtered and unfiltered https://img.phonandroid.com/2019/07/influenceuse-insolite.jpg
2019-08-19T03:48:19 < Laurenceb> javascript needs to die in a fire
2019-08-19T03:48:22 < Laurenceb> internet cancer
2019-08-19T03:48:31 < mawk> it's french site
2019-08-19T03:48:35 < salcedo> if i'm still alive tomorrow, my mission is to not smoke a cigarette.
2019-08-19T03:48:36 -!- irf21k [~irf21k@157.49.203.61] has quit [Client Quit]
2019-08-19T03:48:40 < Laurenceb> evn muh xeon server takes ages to render a site these days
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2019-08-19T03:49:13 < Laurenceb> >xeon with 128GB ram
2019-08-19T03:49:22 < Laurenceb> >takes ten seconds to render a webshite
2019-08-19T03:49:46 < Cracki> because dumb "web developers" need to be whipped for their sins
2019-08-19T03:49:47 < Laurenceb> javashit
2019-08-19T03:49:49 < salcedo> probaly because they're preloading a buch of stuff in the background, setting up virtual dom and all that crap
2019-08-19T03:50:10 < Cracki> they overdo it with the js, rewrite the whole site a thousand times before letting it draw.
2019-08-19T03:50:24 < salcedo> i don't think devs ever tree shake deps for smaller bundle sizes and whatnot
2019-08-19T03:50:29 < disposabled[m]> @Salcedo: good luck with the smoking thing
2019-08-19T03:50:42 < salcedo> disposabled[m]: thx. it will only be the 100th time lol
2019-08-19T03:50:44 < Laurenceb> in the future we will have to render of iphone
2019-08-19T03:51:01 < Laurenceb> for some reason it is actually snappy, probably because sites are properly optimised for it
2019-08-19T03:51:09 < Laurenceb> s/of/on
2019-08-19T03:51:32 < salcedo> Laurenceb: i you think javascript is aids. check out PuffinOS
2019-08-19T03:51:37 < Laurenceb> heh
2019-08-19T03:51:38 < Cracki> fucking journos don't know what a glitch is. she simply forgot to turn the filter on. nothing glitched.
2019-08-19T03:52:22 < Cracki> bird that looks like a flying (mobile) penguin
2019-08-19T03:52:55 < Cracki> >shift workload from the local device to an avatar in the butt
2019-08-19T03:53:05 < Laurenceb> I was trying to find a house on an estate built about 3 years ago recently, no postcode match on google maps
2019-08-19T03:53:12 < Laurenceb> works fine on iphone
2019-08-19T03:53:20 < Laurenceb> the absolute state of google cancer
2019-08-19T03:53:56 < Laurenceb> >in the future every laptop will contain an iphone to access the webcancer
2019-08-19T03:55:20 -!- boB_K7IQ [boB_K7IQ@c-73-193-6-103.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit []
2019-08-19T03:56:28 < salcedo> there is a book about huge rings that divided the earth into quadrants. the rings had thrusters on top of them that would deliver earth to a ring of sequestured planets from various galaxies in order to enslave them.
2019-08-19T03:56:29 < Cracki> just spoof your user agent. works against the new twitter interface too
2019-08-19T03:56:54 < Laurenceb> salcedo: have you been reading muh nasaspaceflight shitposts?
2019-08-19T03:56:56 < salcedo> the earth was saved from this by a talking t-rex named drom who lived in the hallowed out moon of saturn
2019-08-19T03:57:18 < Laurenceb> probably been reading emdrive thread then
2019-08-19T03:57:22 < salcedo> and an AI platform built by the military that runs code on the human brain
2019-08-19T03:57:35 < salcedo> the book is called CUSP. check it out.
2019-08-19T03:58:05 < Laurenceb> ok
2019-08-19T03:58:23 < salcedo> lots of brain-hacking stuff in it too
2019-08-19T03:58:46 < Laurenceb> >when you feel depressed and think you are a loser, just read the nasaspaceflight emdrive thread
2019-08-19T03:59:09 < Laurenceb> >a team of losers working for the best part of a decade to build nothing
2019-08-19T03:59:10 < salcedo> rural rednecks sitting in a pig stable on a dentist chair jacked into their neuralinks to penetrate the minds of rich fucks in order to animate them into doing things
2019-08-19T03:59:17 < Laurenceb> >cant even disprove emdrive
2019-08-19T04:00:07 < salcedo> in cusp
2019-08-19T04:00:17 < salcedo> the internet has evolved into what is now called The Swirl
2019-08-19T04:00:30 < Cracki> I think I need to come up with a filter for this shit
2019-08-19T04:00:31 < salcedo> it's a giant skittles tornado of LGBTQ energy
2019-08-19T04:00:43 < Cracki> keep talking, you're fodder for the AI
2019-08-19T04:02:14 < Laurenceb> >imagine being so inept you cant even disprove emdrive
2019-08-19T04:03:35 < Laurenceb> actually some guy from Bulgaria disproved it in an afternoon in 2015 lmao
2019-08-19T04:03:38 < salcedo> https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/729726.Cusp
2019-08-19T04:04:07 < Laurenceb> leaking microwaves were interfering with the instrumentation amp on the strain gauge
2019-08-19T04:06:03 < jadew> Laurenceb, how did he prove that's not just an occurence on his setup?
2019-08-19T04:07:26 < Laurenceb> he didnt but it looked very feasible
2019-08-19T04:07:42 < Laurenceb> there was no thrust from his emdrive if he shielded it all properly
2019-08-19T04:07:52 < Laurenceb> then he investigated the cause of the effect
2019-08-19T04:08:31 < jadew> maybe by shielding it he prevented the thrust generating effect from happening
2019-08-19T04:08:57 < jadew> what did he shield?
2019-08-19T04:10:51 < Laurenceb> the strain gauge system
2019-08-19T04:11:06 < jadew> ah, hehe
2019-08-19T04:11:22 < Laurenceb> oh shit, I used my irl email to register with nasaspaceflight
2019-08-19T04:11:38 < Laurenceb> trolling them was a bad idea, my email is filling up
2019-08-19T04:11:45 < jadew> drblaxter@yahoo.com?
2019-08-19T04:11:53 < Laurenceb> >"please do not make references to 4chan /b/ in future"
2019-08-19T04:12:42  * Laurenceb zzz
2019-08-19T04:12:47 < jadew> night
2019-08-19T04:16:02 < jadew> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1Go4vbSWD3KVjSZSgq6ACxVXa9/7cm-Summer-Wedge-Wedge-Espadrilles-Women-Sandals-Heel-Pointed-Fish-Mouth-Sandals-Woman-Hemp-Lace-Up.jpg
2019-08-19T04:16:48 < jadew> should have linked the item: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33031984111.html
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2019-08-19T04:40:11 < Cracki> that's a hairy woman
2019-08-19T04:40:26 < Cracki> xD thumbs up https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1UVgUaL1H3KVjSZFHq6zKppXaw.jpg_220x220q90.jpg_.webp
2019-08-19T04:40:55 < jadew> could be reaction image on imgur
2019-08-19T04:42:14 < mawk> disgusting
2019-08-19T04:44:13 < Cracki> the opposite would be that instagram girl in a waste disposal worker's uniform
2019-08-19T04:47:03 < jadew> hmm, you can withdraw funds from paypal to a credit card?
2019-08-19T04:47:16 < mawk> I don't think so jadew , but maybe
2019-08-19T04:47:20 < mawk> you can withdraw to bank account
2019-08-19T04:47:26 < mawk> you need to give IBAN number and everything
2019-08-19T04:47:28 < jadew> it gives me the option to select my card
2019-08-19T04:47:29 < mawk> they will bill you $2
2019-08-19T04:47:30 < mawk> ah
2019-08-19T04:47:36 < mawk> then yeah it should work I guess
2019-08-19T04:47:37 < jadew> just $2? that's great
2019-08-19T04:47:50 < mawk> yeah it's verification payment to verify the account
2019-08-19T04:47:51 < jadew> I wonder if my bank takes some too
2019-08-19T04:47:53 < mawk> then the $2 are refunded
2019-08-19T04:48:35 < jadew> you mean the withdrawl to a bank account is free?
2019-08-19T04:49:06 < mawk> yes I think
2019-08-19T04:49:12 < mawk> the $2 are just to verify the bank account
2019-08-19T04:49:15 < mawk> and they're refunded then
2019-08-19T04:49:24 < mawk> maybe like $.1 fee or something unsignificant for withdrawal
2019-08-19T04:49:28 < jadew> how do they take money from your bank account?
2019-08-19T04:49:35 < mawk> when you specify your IBAN
2019-08-19T04:49:39 < mawk> it's like an authorization
2019-08-19T04:49:39 < jadew> you must be confusing it with the card validation
2019-08-19T04:49:40 < mawk> it's enough
2019-08-19T04:49:43 < mawk> the banking system is archaic
2019-08-19T04:49:43 < mawk> no
2019-08-19T04:49:47 < mawk> I did it on my paypal account
2019-08-19T04:49:51 < mawk> it's linked with my bank account
2019-08-19T04:50:05 < mawk> not only my card
2019-08-19T04:50:43 < jadew> but... your IBAN is public information, how could they use that to withdraw money?
2019-08-19T04:50:56 < mawk> it's IBAN and all the numbers
2019-08-19T04:51:08 < mawk> bank number, account number, security key, name
2019-08-19T04:51:14 < mawk> that's enough to withdraw money from your account yes
2019-08-19T04:51:18 < mawk> with your signature in theory
2019-08-19T04:51:29 < mawk> that's why you should read bank statements
2019-08-19T04:51:55 < mawk> they just send a request to your bank with these numbers and saying they got your approval, and it's enough to receive the money
2019-08-19T04:52:04 < Cracki> SEPA lets parties you authorize withdraw from your account
2019-08-19T04:52:32 < mawk> you never signed up for automated wiring jadew ? eg for the phone bill
2019-08-19T04:52:36 < Cracki> you can cancel that, and maybe the transfer retroactively
2019-08-19T04:52:40 < jadew> mawk, no
2019-08-19T04:52:44 < mawk> you just have to provide IBAN, BIC, whatever, and a signature
2019-08-19T04:52:48 < mawk> and voilà they take your money
2019-08-19T04:53:04 < jadew> we don't have that
2019-08-19T04:53:12 < mawk> ah :(
2019-08-19T04:53:17 < Cracki> so... you literally pay your monthly bills manually?
2019-08-19T04:53:22 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-19T04:53:28 < Cracki> hm, sensible these days
2019-08-19T04:53:29 < mawk> you have recurring CC payments too Cracki 
2019-08-19T04:53:32 < mawk> I do that for my server
2019-08-19T04:53:35 < mawk> it's good too
2019-08-19T04:53:38 < Cracki> not CC, normal debit
2019-08-19T04:53:40 < mawk> you just have to renew it when the CC expires
2019-08-19T04:53:43 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-19T04:53:48 < mawk> well CC is normal debit here
2019-08-19T04:53:51 < mawk> there is no culture of credit card
2019-08-19T04:53:56 < Cracki> and I think my hosting charges the CC, but I don't know
2019-08-19T04:53:59 < mawk> credit card means the debit is done at the end of the month
2019-08-19T04:54:02 < jadew> neither here, we all use debit cards
2019-08-19T04:54:06 < mawk> it doesn't mean free money like in US
2019-08-19T04:54:10 < jadew> at least I think we do
2019-08-19T04:54:27 < mawk> it also means that if you go below 0€ you automatically make a loan whose rate is 26%/year, fixed by law
2019-08-19T04:54:35 < mawk> but that's just standard rate for debiting account, not a real credit
2019-08-19T04:54:39 < Cracki> I got a proper credit card because it's been easier to pay for shit like aliexpress and vpn and such
2019-08-19T04:55:00 < jadew> Cracki, easier than keeping the debit card funded?
2019-08-19T04:55:08 < mawk> here debit cards are the stupid cards with systematic interrogation
2019-08-19T04:55:11 < mawk> it takes ages to pay in stores
2019-08-19T04:55:17 < Cracki> easier because plenty of sellers don't seem to know what the fuck IBAN and BIC are
2019-08-19T04:55:22 < mawk> with a credit card the store just remembers the transaction and sends it to the bank at midnight
2019-08-19T04:55:22 < Cracki> they want cc number and that's it
2019-08-19T04:55:32 < mawk> the card always says yes essentially, you have to go pretty deep below 0€ for them to block it
2019-08-19T04:55:50 < Cracki> i've had a CC since before ibans were a thing
2019-08-19T04:55:56 < mawk> it happened to me, then you can throw away the card
2019-08-19T04:56:50 < jadew> for withdrawing to CC there is a fee
2019-08-19T04:57:01 < mawk> ah :(
2019-08-19T04:57:05 < jadew> ~1.2%
2019-08-19T04:57:08 < jadew> not much
2019-08-19T04:57:08 < mawk> lame
2019-08-19T04:57:11 < jadew> let's see the conversion rate tho
2019-08-19T04:57:15 < mawk> that's still much on a big account
2019-08-19T04:57:22 < mawk> yeah they charge for foreign currency exchange too
2019-08-19T04:59:04 < jadew> it adds up to 4.5% total fees
2019-08-19T04:59:42 < jadew> mainly because of their exchange rante
2019-08-19T04:59:44 < jadew> *rate
2019-08-19T04:59:47 < mawk> lame
2019-08-19T05:00:13 < jadew> 1 GBP = 5.18 RON says google
2019-08-19T05:00:25 < mawk> yeah they rob you on exchange rate
2019-08-19T05:00:26 < jadew> 1 GBP = 5.00 RON says paypal
2019-08-19T05:00:31 < mawk> can't you receive GBP on your card ?
2019-08-19T05:00:36 < mawk> refusing the exchange and letting your bank do it
2019-08-19T05:00:38 < mawk> usually it's more favorable
2019-08-19T05:00:45 < jadew> don't think so, there's no option for that
2019-08-19T05:01:10 < jadew> and opening a GBP account is not feasible either, because it costs money every month
2019-08-19T05:01:25 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-19T05:01:30 < mawk> maybe if you could receive the money as a bank wire
2019-08-19T05:01:35 < mawk> then the bank would do the conversion for you
2019-08-19T05:01:55 < jadew> don't think so, I'll probably have the same issue
2019-08-19T05:02:17 < jadew> although, if I the GBP to USD rate is better, I could send it to a USD account
2019-08-19T05:02:19 < jadew> which I have
2019-08-19T05:02:24 < mawk> ah
2019-08-19T05:02:30 < mawk> I think they will apply the same disguised fee
2019-08-19T05:02:32 < mawk> but you can try
2019-08-19T05:02:55 < jadew> I will
2019-08-19T05:04:43 < jadew> hmm, but then... in order to use the money, I'd have to exchange it from USD to RON anyway
2019-08-19T05:05:07 < jadew> I need a card linked to the USD account, don't know why I haven't thought about this before
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2019-08-19T05:07:09 < jadew> 3.47% from the exchange rate
2019-08-19T05:07:44 < jadew> I guess I shouldn't accept GBP anymore, I can't spend it on anything
2019-08-19T05:08:05 < mawk> or accept it with bank wire
2019-08-19T05:08:07 < mawk> the bank will do the conversion
2019-08-19T05:08:12 < mawk> and not with paypal anymore
2019-08-19T05:12:22 < jadew> yeah, I have to think this through, it looks like I'm wasting at least ~3% with the current setup
2019-08-19T05:14:45 < mawk> yes
2019-08-19T05:14:50 < mawk> 4.5%
2019-08-19T05:22:10 < jadew> now that I have money on my card, I did an extravagance and bought myself a $2.80 wire stripper
2019-08-19T05:25:31 <@aandrew> you fucking spendthrift
2019-08-19T05:26:38 < jadew> I know, almost didn't get it
2019-08-19T05:33:41 < jadew> so all in all, ebay costs me about 20%
2019-08-19T05:38:14 < jadew> 10% from ebay, 5.6% from paypal (for the transaction), then 3.5% from the exchange and 1% from the withdrawal
2019-08-19T05:39:04 < jadew> this sucks
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2019-08-19T07:37:06 < jadew> man, I should have ran the numbers before I started selling this stuff, I'm making less money on the higher performance board, than I'm making on the lower performance one
2019-08-19T07:38:10 < jadew> somehow I missed the fact that the BOM is 3 times more expensive
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2019-08-19T08:15:37 < qyx> you can always make the bom more similar to the lower ferformance one
2019-08-19T08:30:11 < jadew> yeah, I'm looking at ways to reduce cost
2019-08-19T08:30:21 < jadew> buying in bulk seems to be the only way
2019-08-19T09:01:03 < qyx> 3.5x3.5mm QFN, wut
2019-08-19T09:01:18 < qyx> why TI
2019-08-19T09:08:24 < qyx> thats not the problem, but why 3.5mm
2019-08-19T09:09:02 < qyx> yes
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2019-08-19T11:25:37 < zyp> jadew, have you looked at transferwise? I've used them to receive EUR (and keep it in EUR until I spend it again as EUR)
2019-08-19T11:25:53 < zyp> they'll give you a british account number so you can do the same with GBP
2019-08-19T11:26:09 < zyp> and they have fairly good rates for conversion too
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2019-08-19T12:12:10 < Steffanx> I'm happy you're happy, Haohmaru  
2019-08-19T12:15:26 < Steffanx> There was no need to say it
2019-08-19T12:23:23 < Steffanx> I deduced it.
2019-08-19T12:27:22 < jly> sounds all fucked up
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2019-08-19T12:59:57 < Steffanx> True that, jly
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2019-08-19T14:19:48 < qyx> I am trying to find a way to highlight all off-grid components/traces
2019-08-19T14:19:51 < qyx> no luck so far
2019-08-19T14:19:56 < qyx> in kicad I mean
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2019-08-19T14:58:53 < qyx> no, pcbnew
2019-08-19T15:00:40 < qyx> yeah I am checking the anchor now
2019-08-19T15:01:14 < qyx> but it is a pain of the grid switches accidentally from 2.0mm to 2.5mm
2019-08-19T15:01:19 < qyx> from 0.2mm to 0.25mm
2019-08-19T15:04:24 < qyx> thats the other common problem
2019-08-19T15:04:47 < qyx> what are those symbols for if you cannot place them on a 0.1 grid
2019-08-19T15:05:20 < qyx> idk how to solve it properly, I am using C_Small for example, because C is just awful
2019-08-19T15:05:44 < qyx> 0.05 grid pins and the symbol is huge
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2019-08-19T15:21:42 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/531926386403967020/612983277338361866/IMG_20190819_131608.jpg  had to tweak and reprint some of the buttons, used up some clear resin i already had in the vat, topped up wtih some black resin, Rather like this translucent look... Still painting it black though
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2019-08-19T16:14:47 < kakimir> nice
2019-08-19T16:14:51 < kakimir> what you doin?
2019-08-19T16:17:43 < benishor> gaming console?
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2019-08-19T16:36:54 < karlp> whee, msp432 in some new hardware on the desk
2019-08-19T16:37:15 < karlp> and mixing surface mount and through hole leds on the same board, nice.
2019-08-19T16:37:18 < qyx> happy multiplicating
2019-08-19T16:39:26 < jadew> zyp, I have not, thanks!
2019-08-19T16:39:29 < jadew> I'll check them out
2019-08-19T16:41:18 < zyp> hmm, I wonder if they had some referral shit
2019-08-19T16:41:25 < zyp> maybe I should make some money off you :p
2019-08-19T16:42:30 < jadew> haha, you should
2019-08-19T16:42:56 < jadew> if you get a referral code or anything, let me know
2019-08-19T16:43:06 < jadew> I won't look into it until later today
2019-08-19T16:43:07 < zyp> found it
2019-08-19T16:43:34 < zyp> https://transferwise.com/u/vegarde1
2019-08-19T16:43:49 < jadew> thanks :)
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2019-08-19T16:47:01 < karlp> transferwise doesn't like iceland :) (not uncommon)
2019-08-19T16:48:24 < zyp> I thought you guys closed up all your banks a few years ago :p
2019-08-19T16:48:58 < jadew> and shot the bankers too
2019-08-19T16:49:16 < jadew> or at least chased them away
2019-08-19T16:49:55 < jadew> zyp, they're using the interbank exchange rate?
2019-08-19T16:49:58 < jadew> that's sweet
2019-08-19T16:50:43 < zyp> yeah, they're using explicit fees instead of baking it into the rate
2019-08-19T16:51:13 < jadew> how it should actually be
2019-08-19T16:52:44 < jadew> I'm sold
2019-08-19T16:53:53 < zyp> I especially like that they let me keep balances in foreign currencies, so I can just earn it and spend it without turning it to NOK and back
2019-08-19T16:54:08 < jadew> paypal does that too
2019-08-19T16:54:19 < zyp> yes, making use of that too
2019-08-19T16:54:30 < jadew> the problem is when converting
2019-08-19T16:54:49 < jadew> if doing the conversion in this thing is a lot cheaper, then I can keep selling stuff in GBP
2019-08-19T16:54:52 < zyp> but if you get the transferwise card, you can spend it anywhere that takes mastercard, not just places that take paypal
2019-08-19T16:55:10 < jadew> neat, is it a physical thing?
2019-08-19T16:55:13 < zyp> yes
2019-08-19T16:55:16 < jadew> can I take it to the grocery shop?
2019-08-19T16:55:19 < jadew> awesome
2019-08-19T16:55:27 < mawk> zyp: in czechia all exchange booths claim 0% fee
2019-08-19T16:55:28 < zyp> got two of them in my wallet, one personal and one for my business
2019-08-19T16:55:31 < mawk> but they mess with the exchange rate
2019-08-19T16:55:52 < mawk> official exchange rate is 26.11 ck/€, at the airport there was a booth "0% COMMISSION 18 CK/€ EXCHANGE"
2019-08-19T16:55:52 < zyp> if you can't buy and sell at the same rate, there's fees baked in
2019-08-19T16:55:55 < mawk> aka 35% commission
2019-08-19T16:56:13 < jadew> zyp, have you looked into revolut too?
2019-08-19T16:56:31 < zyp> heard about it, haven't tried it
2019-08-19T16:56:43 < zyp> I think one of my friends showed me he got a physical revolut card
2019-08-19T16:56:52 < zyp> if I remember correctly
2019-08-19T16:57:08 < mawk> I get ads for revolut all the time
2019-08-19T16:57:10 < mawk> for N26 too
2019-08-19T16:58:57 < jadew> my wife told me about revolut, apparently some of her friends use it
2019-08-19T17:00:38 < qyx> I almost forgot there is no eur in .cz
2019-08-19T17:01:08 < jadew> they have that silly money
2019-08-19T17:01:21 < jadew> we got scammed there when exchanging money
2019-08-19T17:02:17 < jadew> some guy offered to do the exchange for us and I assumed he was the same as the guys doing that here (shady as hell, but they didn't scam you and they gave you a better rate)
2019-08-19T17:02:20 < qyx> you can get money from atm, can't you?
2019-08-19T17:03:08 < jadew> yeah, but my g/f wanted to get rid of some euros she had in her wallet
2019-08-19T17:04:13 < jadew> the scam was that he gave us money from a different currency
2019-08-19T17:04:19 < jadew> because they all looked the same to us
2019-08-19T17:04:41 < jadew> they were worth like 6 eur
2019-08-19T17:04:47 < jadew> (and we exchanged 100)
2019-08-19T17:05:19 < jadew> great first impression :P
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2019-08-19T17:19:11 < jadew> I did a stupid for a couple of moments, can you tell what it was? http://86.127.196.108/stuff/oo.jpg
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2019-08-19T17:19:33 < Mangy_Dog> an old retro computer tear down of the pcu?
2019-08-19T17:19:55 < Mangy_Dog> or did you just short live to neutral?
2019-08-19T17:19:59 < jadew> Mangy_Dog, that wouldn't have been stupid tho :)
2019-08-19T17:20:05 < jadew> not a retro computer
2019-08-19T17:20:13 < jadew> no, that neither
2019-08-19T17:20:15 < Mangy_Dog> i see scsi though?
2019-08-19T17:20:45 < jadew> if it's the same connector, it has a different pinout for sure
2019-08-19T17:20:52 < Mangy_Dog> okays
2019-08-19T17:20:59 < jadew> (it's a signal generator)
2019-08-19T17:21:13 < jadew> back to the stupid, can you spot it?
2019-08-19T17:21:39 < jadew> hint: I was about to start working on the PSU
2019-08-19T17:22:07 < Mangy_Dog> didnt discharge the cvaps?
2019-08-19T17:22:10 < Mangy_Dog> caps
2019-08-19T17:22:14 < jadew> no
2019-08-19T17:22:32 < Mangy_Dog> i cant really see anything in the pic that suggests something wrong
2019-08-19T17:22:40 < jadew> oh, but there is
2019-08-19T17:23:01 < Mangy_Dog> well plug is unplugged so its not earthed
2019-08-19T17:23:13 < jadew> hot
2019-08-19T17:23:59 < jadew> the stupid was that when I removed the PSU, which was attached to the chassis, it was no longer earthed
2019-08-19T17:24:02 < Mangy_Dog> other than it not being earthed while you go fiddling with a psu is all i can think of
2019-08-19T17:24:09 < jadew> that's it
2019-08-19T17:24:26 < Mangy_Dog> but if you discarge the caps that should be ok
2019-08-19T17:24:35 < jadew> I was about to go work on it live
2019-08-19T17:24:44 < Mangy_Dog> ok that would be stupid
2019-08-19T17:25:11 < jadew> I realized it after I plugged in the mains connector
2019-08-19T17:25:31 < qyx> did you died,
2019-08-19T17:25:39 < Mangy_Dog> i personalyl stay away from mains voltage things
2019-08-19T17:25:43 < jadew> I didn't
2019-08-19T17:25:50 < jadew> Mangy_Dog, me too, but it's broken...
2019-08-19T17:25:54 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2019-08-19T17:26:02 < Mangy_Dog> though saying that i have had a fiddle inside my printer psu
2019-08-19T17:26:19 < Mangy_Dog> i just prefer staying on the logic side of things
2019-08-19T17:26:23 < Mangy_Dog> or low voltage rails
2019-08-19T17:26:31 < jadew> obviously
2019-08-19T17:26:56 < jadew> I'm just going to power it up so I can recreate the failure in a controlled fashion
2019-08-19T17:27:21 < jadew> then I'll unplug it and start measuring/desoldering stuff
2019-08-19T17:27:30 < jadew> there's nothing visibly wrong with it, which is a bummer
2019-08-19T17:27:39 < jadew> I don't have schematics either
2019-08-19T17:28:35 < jadew> (it's a tad more complex than what's in the photo)
2019-08-19T17:29:08 < jadew> 4 or 5 rails, 3 daughter boards and extremely compact
2019-08-19T17:29:27 < qyx> is it worth repairing?
2019-08-19T17:29:36 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-19T17:30:19 < qyx> do you pros have any non retarted idea how to communicate with a device submerged ~50cm in a water?
2019-08-19T17:30:38 < jadew> light
2019-08-19T17:30:45 < jadew> unless it's dirty water
2019-08-19T17:31:13 < qyx> the device is a pressure datalogger, the water may be dirty
2019-08-19T17:31:15 < jadew> or it's 50cm under and 100 m away?
2019-08-19T17:31:18 < qyx> but not always
2019-08-19T17:31:28 < qyx> yeah more like that
2019-08-19T17:31:57 < jadew> sound waves maybe?
2019-08-19T17:32:05 < jadew> not sure how much power you need for that tho
2019-08-19T17:32:33 < qyx> not particularly low power, but yes, thats the only way I discovered so far
2019-08-19T17:32:43 < specing> qyx: 50 cm long cable to the bouy
2019-08-19T17:32:47 < specing> buoy*
2019-08-19T17:32:57 < specing> antenna on the bouy
2019-08-19T17:33:03 < specing> or cable to somewhere else
2019-08-19T17:37:26 < salcedo> dear DHL gods, please bless me with the fine shipment of black rectangular surfaces with shiny metallic pads from jlcpcb today
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2019-08-19T17:40:59 < emeb> The church of postal delivery
2019-08-19T17:41:13 < emeb> have faith - your savior will arrive
2019-08-19T18:00:24 < Mangy_Dog> pwmWrite, what is the range? 0-4096 or 0-65536?
2019-08-19T18:00:51 < Mangy_Dog> i cant remember if its 12bit or 16
2019-08-19T18:01:58 < Mangy_Dog> turns out its 16bit
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2019-08-19T18:40:31 < kakimir> can pci-e cards execute code on computer those are installed in?
2019-08-19T18:41:10 < jadew> you're suspecting your video card has a trojan in it?
2019-08-19T18:41:37 < kakimir> I placed raid card in and there is "LSI Corp Config Utility" "Enter setup pressing ctrl-c"
2019-08-19T18:42:39 < benishor> most likely the system detects that and probably handles it?
2019-08-19T18:42:47 < benishor> what OS are we talking about?
2019-08-19T18:44:53 < kakimir> boot has been disabled and idk
2019-08-19T18:45:12 < kakimir> I just placed some used ssd inside the machine and started it for first time in years
2019-08-19T18:46:39 < jadew> I don't think the card does that, it was cheaper to just make it phone to india and give an operator there remote access, he then figures out what you need, based on OS and hardware configuration
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2019-08-19T18:47:37 < kakimir> is such utility part of the bios?
2019-08-19T18:48:16 < jadew> I doubt you have that, but I think some corporate PCs might have something along those lines
2019-08-19T18:48:52 < jadew> I have a friend who works for Dell (if not HP - not sure), and he said they handle everything for various companies
2019-08-19T18:48:56 < jadew> (remotely)
2019-08-19T18:49:00 < jadew> OS install, updates, etc
2019-08-19T18:50:55 < kakimir> yes it's actually running code from the raid card
2019-08-19T18:51:30 < kakimir> it has it's own bios
2019-08-19T18:51:58 < jadew> if it is, it's probably signed
2019-08-19T18:52:03 < jadew> like a driver
2019-08-19T18:52:26 < jadew> unless you're running linux, then it will probably run anything
2019-08-19T18:52:54 < jadew> but more likely nothing
2019-08-19T18:53:59 < kakimir> yes
2019-08-19T19:00:25 < kakimir> most likelly bios of the system provides interface for pci card bios and pci card bios is executed on the card itself
2019-08-19T19:01:28 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-19T19:10:19 < Steffanx> Hows the case kakimir  
2019-08-19T19:10:30 < kakimir> very good
2019-08-19T19:10:48 < kakimir> as you weren't present one evening I said it's very good
2019-08-19T19:10:57 < Steffanx> I see :)
2019-08-19T19:11:00 < kakimir> and will ask you computer recommendations in future
2019-08-19T19:11:08 < Steffanx> Lol
2019-08-19T19:11:26 < Steffanx> Will you add all the fans and SSDs in the front panel?
2019-08-19T19:20:11 < kakimir> I think 3 fans is ok
2019-08-19T19:21:43 < englishman> kakimir is making the world's first buttcoin sauna
2019-08-19T19:22:09 < englishman> he was making good progress until he poured water all over his video cards
2019-08-19T19:22:11 < kakimir> if I only went ahead and heat house with buttcoin rigs in 2009
2019-08-19T19:22:34 < jpa-> kakimir: yeah, pci-e cards can contain expansion rom that the bios/uefi reads and executes
2019-08-19T19:23:24 < jpa-> i don't think there is any signing for that, and no, it executes on main cpu
2019-08-19T19:24:18 < jpa-> not sure if secure boot changes that somehow
2019-08-19T19:24:38 < englishman> I don't think so, isn't that the thunderbolt vulnerability
2019-08-19T19:24:40 < jpa-> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/uefi-validation-option-rom-validation-guidance  apparently yeah, secure boot has some signing
2019-08-19T19:24:52 < Ultrasauce> they can also just dma stuff wherever, modulo iommu configuration
2019-08-19T19:25:08 < jpa-> englishman: i don't think this is about any vulnerability (DMA etc which is very much possible), but just the standard way how expansion roms work
2019-08-19T19:25:36 < englishman> well, the vulnerability is that PCIe is now exposed on external ports
2019-08-19T19:31:05 < kakimir> so
2019-08-19T19:34:53 < kakimir> any machine with thunderbolt can be accessed with simply connecting device that executes malicious code on the platform
2019-08-19T19:35:30 < kakimir> is thunderbolt just a fancy name for hotpluging pci-e devices?
2019-08-19T19:35:37 < kakimir> with special connector
2019-08-19T19:41:51 < kakimir> I think I will reflash the raid card
2019-08-19T19:42:12 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2019-08-19T19:42:34 < kakimir> even when it's unlikelly it has been tampered other than changing the firmware to "IT" mode
2019-08-19T19:48:27 < Steffanx> have pics of your build yet kakimir?
2019-08-19T19:48:42 < jpa-> kakimir: well can't they already be compromised just by plugging usb devices?
2019-08-19T19:48:53 < jpa-> (and if you disable usb, you probably disable thunderbolt also)
2019-08-19T19:49:31 < kakimir> usb device doesn't have priviledged dma access
2019-08-19T19:50:12 < jpa-> yeah, but they have direct keyboard access, which is pretty much as good in most cases
2019-08-19T19:50:54 < jpa-> and besides, there are protections against the thunderbolt dma stuff already deployed
2019-08-19T19:51:53 < kakimir> scripted keystrokes are easy to detect
2019-08-19T19:52:03 < jpa-> uh? how?
2019-08-19T19:52:14 < jpa-> you can script them to be just like normal keystrokes
2019-08-19T19:52:24 < jpa-> (and what operating system has such detection anyway)
2019-08-19T19:52:53 < kakimir> by connecting the device and monitoring if something happens?
2019-08-19T19:53:04 < Steffanx> Why wouldnt a regular keyboard do that?
2019-08-19T19:53:21 < Steffanx> with a cat walking over the keys
2019-08-19T19:53:31 < Steffanx> install a secret root kit
2019-08-19T19:53:32 < jpa-> and it can wait for arbitrary amount of time
2019-08-19T20:00:05 < kakimir> you can run linux
2019-08-19T20:00:41 < Steffanx> What will your system run kakimir?
2019-08-19T20:00:44 < kakimir> any way there is high likelyhood of it's operation being detected
2019-08-19T20:00:57 < kakimir> I assume freenas is linux
2019-08-19T20:01:16 < Steffanx> nein
2019-08-19T20:01:22 < Steffanx> Free... ;)
2019-08-19T20:04:19 < qyx> did you know QFN 3.5x3.5mm sucks?
2019-08-19T20:04:26 < Steffanx> No, tell me why.
2019-08-19T20:04:41 < salcedo> stop pitching about qfn sizes and just solder!
2019-08-19T20:05:30 < kakimir> qyx: pin pitch?
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2019-08-19T20:35:23 < Steffanx> telll us qyx. you can do it \o/
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2019-08-19T21:32:10 < qyx> re: underwater sensors, https://www.scirp.org/pdf/jemaa20110700001_18390291.pdf
2019-08-19T21:32:39 < Steffanx> Does it use a 3.5x3.5mm qfn?
2019-08-19T21:32:57 < qyx> it seems it is possible to communicate with sensors in a fresh water even few meters deep
2019-08-19T21:33:02 < qyx> in a 1-100MHz range
2019-08-19T21:33:32 < qyx> Steffanx: no, this is not TI
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2019-08-19T22:33:09 < Cracki> kakimir, so you run windows and you plug in a new device and it installed drivers plus "service software"? sounds normal
2019-08-19T22:33:38 < Cracki> ah, option rom
2019-08-19T22:34:03 < kakimir> windows installs weird shit by itself
2019-08-19T22:40:03 < Steffanx> dont do that kakimir
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2019-08-19T22:46:09 < specing> windows is the weird shit all by itself
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2019-08-19T22:48:27 < Steffanx> How is specing today? I saw you've been trolling ##embedded well today.
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2019-08-19T22:50:10 < specing> trolling? Eh the fun was only the first two lines, then it got serious
2019-08-19T22:50:30 < Steffanx> :D
2019-08-19T22:50:37 < specing> I don't take it lightly when people mention golang or rust
2019-08-19T22:50:42 < specing> it hits all my nerves at once
2019-08-19T22:50:45 < specing> even more so than C
2019-08-19T22:50:53 < zyp> in what way?
2019-08-19T22:51:08 < zyp> I'm not sure what the context here is, I don't follow ##embedded
2019-08-19T22:59:34 < specing> It feels to me that people who mention golang or Rust see it as "finaly a solution to the problems of C" and that these are the same people who previously found no fault in C. It angers me even more knowing that Ada has existed for the past 40 years and is actually the solution and is actually used everywhere where software reliability is a must.
2019-08-19T22:59:47 < Steffanx> oh he was talking about Ada, zyp. " Promoting Ada.
2019-08-19T22:59:59 < Steffanx> and the stm32 church
2019-08-19T23:00:10 < specing> the stm32 church was the 2 line fun at the start
2019-08-19T23:00:19 < zyp> I feel like golang and rust are not even competing languages
2019-08-19T23:00:31 < Steffanx> Will c++ ever bee complete?
2019-08-19T23:00:45 < specing> yes, C++ will be NP-complete
2019-08-19T23:01:00 < Steffanx> oh i read complete, not compete :P
2019-08-19T23:01:57 < zyp> I mean, isn't go running some vm bytecode?
2019-08-19T23:02:08 < zyp> or am I mistaken?
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2019-08-19T23:03:11 < zyp> my impression is that golang is a java/C# competitor, while rust is a C/C++ competitor
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2019-08-19T23:04:57 < Steffanx> You are mistaken.
2019-08-19T23:05:27 < Steffanx> https://golang.org/doc/faq#runtime
2019-08-19T23:06:02 < zyp> oh, okay
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2019-08-19T23:09:04 < kakimir> fucken boot problems
2019-08-19T23:09:19 < kakimir> should not have made the installation as uefi
2019-08-19T23:09:34 < kakimir> clearly mobo is not up for the task
2019-08-19T23:09:42 < zyp> why not? installing on a last century computer?
2019-08-19T23:10:22 < kakimir> https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/H61M-VG4/#BIOS
2019-08-19T23:10:30 < kakimir> intel 3220 something i3
2019-08-19T23:10:41 < kakimir> m500 crusial
2019-08-19T23:10:48 < zyp> ivy bridge generation? shouldn't that do UEFI fine?
2019-08-19T23:10:58 < kakimir> I wonder if raid card interrupts the shiet
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2019-08-19T23:11:05 < Steffanx> ..., Dehumidifier, OMG, ...  that marketing
2019-08-19T23:11:20 < kakimir> boot disk is connected to integrated sata controller
2019-08-19T23:11:23 < kakimir> not the raid card
2019-08-19T23:11:27 < Steffanx> whats not booting?
2019-08-19T23:11:32 < kakimir> freenas installation
2019-08-19T23:11:49 < Steffanx> its installed?
2019-08-19T23:11:55 < kakimir> tell me about that dehumidifier thing Steffanx
2019-08-19T23:12:05 < kakimir> yes I installed it and it said installation success
2019-08-19T23:12:05 < Steffanx> idk. it mentioned that on that page you posted.
2019-08-19T23:12:33 < kakimir> "Powers up after entering states S4/S5"
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2019-08-19T23:13:25 < kakimir> now the usb stick is pain in ass too
2019-08-19T23:13:47 < kakimir> it created GPT protection partition that windowzer won't touch in any way
2019-08-19T23:14:04 < kakimir> I need to flash bios and need fat32
2019-08-19T23:14:22 < kakimir> oh I saw some 27GB of unallocated space there1!
2019-08-19T23:14:39 < Steffanx> my freenas install runs from usb drives.
2019-08-19T23:14:51 < Steffanx> not sure im really happy with it though. they die once in a while
2019-08-19T23:15:07 < kakimir> why you do that?
2019-08-19T23:15:17 < kakimir> some 120GB ssd any day
2019-08-19T23:15:26 < kakimir> those are piling up
2019-08-19T23:15:31 < Steffanx> Nah, at least 2 of them if i'd go with ssd
2019-08-19T23:16:02 < kakimir> for boot drive?
2019-08-19T23:16:05 < Steffanx> yeah
2019-08-19T23:16:11 < kakimir> it's single drive right
2019-08-19T23:16:22 < Steffanx> you can mirror it.
2019-08-19T23:18:13 < Steffanx> I used USB because .. many people do it. And it saves me 2 sata ports.
2019-08-19T23:18:38 < Steffanx> but im thinking about moving to sdd :P
2019-08-19T23:19:26 < zyp> os drive?
2019-08-19T23:19:33 < Steffanx> yeah, boot drive.
2019-08-19T23:19:35 < kakimir> how many sata ports are enough Steffanx?
2019-08-19T23:19:41 < kakimir> I have 4+8
2019-08-19T23:19:54 < Steffanx> i have 6+4 iirc
2019-08-19T23:19:56 < zyp> I bought a motherboard with msata for my server so I could keep the os there
2019-08-19T23:20:34 < Steffanx> im not even sure i have more space for pcie cards. havent looked inside the case for a while
2019-08-19T23:21:02 < kakimir> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-LSI-6Gbps-SAS-HBA-LSI-9200-8i-9211-8I-IT-Mode-ZFS-FreeNAS-unRAID/153224272841
2019-08-19T23:21:06 < kakimir> I have this
2019-08-19T23:21:13 < kakimir> it's 4 + 4
2019-08-19T23:23:23 < Steffanx> hm
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2019-08-19T23:42:15 < kakimir> it requires minisas-sata cables
2019-08-19T23:43:08 < kakimir> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1M-Mini-SAS-SFF-8087-36-PIN-to-4-SATA-7-P-HD-Splitter-Breakout-Cable-C3H7/283021682720 I ordered these
2019-08-19T23:43:23 < kakimir> those come maybe in a month or so
2019-08-19T23:43:34 < kakimir> card came really quick
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2019-08-19T23:48:15 < englishman> go is obviously better than ada
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2019-08-19T23:54:54 < kakimir> I used pentium D heatsink to that 3220
2019-08-19T23:55:03 < kakimir> it's running cold man
2019-08-19T23:55:06 < kakimir> 30C
2019-08-19T23:55:38 < kakimir> pentium D was a thing that heated up the room with dual pentium 4 core setup
2019-08-19T23:55:45 < kakimir> it's lid was copper
--- Day changed Tue Aug 20 2019
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2019-08-20T00:22:16 < kakimir> maybe ssd doesn't play ball
2019-08-20T00:22:39 < kakimir> in other machine booting problems were partially fixed by changing ssd
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2019-08-20T00:38:36 < kakimir> one booting problem was fixed with new sata cable
2019-08-20T00:39:08 < kakimir> but that made drive to be visible in bios intermittently
2019-08-20T00:42:33 < jadew> found a privacy issue
2019-08-20T00:42:53 -!- CheBuzz [~CheBuzz@unaffiliated/chebuzz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2019-08-20T00:43:10 < jadew> you can find the name of the owner of an e-mail address if you initiate a payment in paypal to that address
2019-08-20T00:43:18 < jadew> (and he has a paypal account, but who doesn't)
2019-08-20T00:43:48 < Steffanx> hm
2019-08-20T00:43:54 < jadew> and I finished debugging that power supply
2019-08-20T00:43:58 < jadew> it wasn't the supply :D
2019-08-20T00:44:01 < salcedo> that's not a privacy issue
2019-08-20T00:44:09 < jadew> salcedo, how so?
2019-08-20T00:44:51 < salcedo> it's a security/authenticity thing
2019-08-20T00:45:09 < jadew> well, privacy is a security thing anyway
2019-08-20T00:45:17 < jadew> they're disclosing your name to anyone
2019-08-20T00:45:37 < salcedo> if you're jadew@gmail.com and your name is Jade Williams, but i mistype jadwe@gmail.com when sending you money, i'm going to see Jadriziah W. Elohim
2019-08-20T00:45:58 < qyx> it is a privacy issue
2019-08-20T00:46:15 < jadew> salcedo, that doesn't concern me tho
2019-08-20T00:46:21 < jadew> it's your problem, not mine
2019-08-20T00:46:31 < qyx> your name should not be discoverable nor enumerable in any way
2019-08-20T00:47:29 < salcedo> i disagree. if you want privacy, don't use paypal. lol
2019-08-20T00:47:40 < jadew> this would allow attackers to randomly generate email addresses and be like
2019-08-20T00:47:57 < jadew> Hey Salcedo, I'm in your PC, I recorded you while you were masturbating.
2019-08-20T00:48:21 < Steffanx> He doesnt do that. He's a men of faith.
2019-08-20T00:48:24 < jadew> I know everything about you Salcedo Doe
2019-08-20T00:48:26 < Steffanx> *man
2019-08-20T00:49:43 < jadew> odds are this is specified in their terms of service, but still, huge privacy concern
2019-08-20T00:49:45 < salcedo> Thank you for your interest in my fapping. I appreciate your help getting my content uploaded to PornHub.
2019-08-20T00:50:13 < jadew> duh, you can't reply
2019-08-20T00:50:21 < jadew> they send from your own e-mail address
2019-08-20T00:50:31 < salcedo> of i can. i also put the source email into paypal and found out you're JADEW! Mwahahahaha.
2019-08-20T00:50:53 < jadew> salcedo, looks like you've never received that e-mail
2019-08-20T00:51:10 < jadew> I'm recorded weekly
2019-08-20T00:51:14 < salcedo> no. i haven't yet had the pleasure of people wanting to see me fpa
2019-08-20T00:51:16 < salcedo> *fap
2019-08-20T00:51:36 < jadew> start a chaturbate host account
2019-08-20T00:51:39 < jadew> you will
2019-08-20T00:51:50 < salcedo> but i like vaginas
2019-08-20T00:52:17 < salcedo> not scrolling through 900 dongs to find a gender-reassigned still-a-dong
2019-08-20T00:53:02 < jadew> you got me wrong, I meant you should become a host (if you want to have the pleasure of people wanting to see you fap)
2019-08-20T00:53:11 < salcedo> oh lol
2019-08-20T00:53:16 < salcedo> that's just weird though.
2019-08-20T00:53:17 < Steffanx> big money in that business for sure.
2019-08-20T00:53:18 < jadew> and you don't have to fap looking at dudes, unless that's your thing
2019-08-20T00:53:35 < jadew> Steffanx, yeah
2019-08-20T00:54:02 < jadew> and it comes easy to everyone, because we're all pros
2019-08-20T00:54:20 < salcedo> so basically yuo just put a gopro under your desk and do what you normally do all day?
2019-08-20T00:54:26 < salcedo> and get paid?
2019-08-20T00:54:31 < jadew> yes
2019-08-20T00:54:39 < salcedo> that does sound like an awesome business idea
2019-08-20T00:56:28 < salcedo> can i record 2 minutes of fapping and run it through google deep dream 1000 times so there are enough iterations that nobody knows it's an endless loop. then stream it from a raspberry pi?
2019-08-20T00:56:43 < Steffanx> not with your connector. Sorry
2019-08-20T00:56:49 < salcedo> :(
2019-08-20T00:56:53 < Steffanx> You'll be out of data in seconds.
2019-08-20T00:57:16 < Steffanx> and then we'll hear all about that
2019-08-20T00:57:17 < salcedo> hence rpi. i would put the rpi under a trash can at mcd's
2019-08-20T00:58:25 < salcedo> btw all of the big meat companies are about to start releasing their plant-based vegan junkfood
2019-08-20T00:58:33 < Steffanx> awesome
2019-08-20T00:58:40 < Steffanx> not here.
2019-08-20T00:58:45 < salcedo> expect more raw produce to be packaged in plastic and become less available / more expensive
2019-08-20T00:58:54 < salcedo> if you're not already growing food. time to start :)
2019-08-20T01:15:30 < Cracki> >vegan junkfood
2019-08-20T01:15:46 < Cracki> I hear "fried potato" can be junk food
2019-08-20T01:21:54 < antto> pried fotato == funk jood
2019-08-20T01:22:12 < antto> <confirmed.jpg>
2019-08-20T01:22:27 < salcedo> https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/plantbased-meat-alternatives-crowd-us-grocery-stores-1958491
2019-08-20T01:23:05 < salcedo> the only way they can get people to buy this garbage is if they neuter the produce sections
2019-08-20T01:23:14 < salcedo> which i suspect they'll do
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2019-08-20T01:25:58 < Cracki> beef is plant-based too, just refined in the tastiest way
2019-08-20T01:26:31 < salcedo> Cracki: not in the US. technically yes. but no.
2019-08-20T01:26:47 < Cracki> "corn-fed" is an outdated term?
2019-08-20T01:26:59 < Cracki> what'd they get fed, people?
2019-08-20T01:27:02 < salcedo> we don't feed them corn. directly.
2019-08-20T01:27:10 < salcedo> because that would kill them too fast.
2019-08-20T01:27:11 < Cracki> if that were true, there wouldn't be prisons
2019-08-20T01:27:35 < salcedo> we process the corn to make it more digestable (and more protien dense so they blow up faster)
2019-08-20T01:27:42 < salcedo> it's a byproduct of distillation for ethanol
2019-08-20T01:28:27 < salcedo> supercharged distillers grain that makes them explode
2019-08-20T01:28:55 < salcedo> the stuff we feed our animals would make a newborn baby 800lbs by the time it was 3 years old.
2019-08-20T01:29:13 < Cracki> spherical babby
2019-08-20T01:32:27 < englishman> salcedo: received my 75 chickens from the abattoir today
2019-08-20T01:32:51 < englishman> between 6 and 14 lbs
2019-08-20T01:33:07 < englishman> here they are 2 months ago https://i.imgur.com/aBAkPTH.jpg
2019-08-20T01:33:39 < englishman> fed a pretty clean mix
2019-08-20T01:34:15 < karlp> fucking led symbol in kicad isn't on 100mil grid. need to use 50mil to link it.
2019-08-20T01:34:17 < karlp> wtf guys
2019-08-20T01:34:17 < englishman> here's the bacons about the same date https://i.imgur.com/2gScDyu.png
2019-08-20T01:34:23 < englishman> lol karlp
2019-08-20T01:34:28 < qyx> karlp: haha
2019-08-20T01:34:41 < qyx> use led_small
2019-08-20T01:34:47 < englishman> that is what you get for a) using kikecad b) using another man's schematic symbols
2019-08-20T01:35:09 < qyx> sry, I am not going to make my own LED symbol
2019-08-20T01:35:18 < qyx> thats like trying to manufacture a pen
2019-08-20T01:35:30 < englishman> why
2019-08-20T01:35:31 < englishman> wat
2019-08-20T01:35:32 < englishman> no
2019-08-20T01:35:39 < englishman> in a sane program it takes like 30 seconds
2019-08-20T01:35:45 < englishman> then you have it
2019-08-20T01:35:48 < englishman> and you know it's right
2019-08-20T01:35:50 < qyx> in a sane program you don't have to do basic things
2019-08-20T01:35:55 < karlp> resistor is wrong too. what the fuck.
2019-08-20T01:35:57 < karlp> somethhing'
2019-08-20T01:35:58 < englishman> lol
2019-08-20T01:35:59 < karlp> s wrong.
2019-08-20T01:36:08 < englishman> qyx is clearly too BUSY to do things the RIGHT way
2019-08-20T01:36:09 < qyx> karlp: use r_small
2019-08-20T01:36:27 < qyx> everything is wrong and don't fit on 100mil grid
2019-08-20T01:36:38 < kakimir> i'm so desperate for movies that nowdays I go thru romantic comedies
2019-08-20T01:37:05 < qyx> englishman: idk, personally I don't write may own sprintf because the newlib's one may be wrong
2019-08-20T01:37:16 < englishman> still a poor comparison
2019-08-20T01:37:18 < karlp> _small are just fine.
2019-08-20T01:37:33 < englishman> writing sprintf doesnt take 30 seconds nor is writing sprintf a useful skill
2019-08-20T01:37:47 < englishman> creating sch symbols is a very useful skill and so is being fast at it
2019-08-20T01:37:57 < qyx> yeah so you can make tons of resistor
2019-08-20T01:37:58 < qyx> s
2019-08-20T01:38:17 < englishman> by placing the one, correct, symbol over and over
2019-08-20T01:38:50 < qyx> you need a single fucking one, the most basic component, you expect it to be included
2019-08-20T01:38:56 < englishman> oh god no
2019-08-20T01:39:15 < salcedo> englishman:awesome. that's illegal here.
2019-08-20T01:39:58 < englishman> you can ask for your kikecad refund however
2019-08-20T01:40:02 < qyx> such a spiderweb
2019-08-20T01:40:45 < englishman> and here i thought america was all about freedom
2019-08-20T01:41:39 < qyx> no kicad, no free chickens
2019-08-20T01:42:27 < salcedo> i have kicad lol
2019-08-20T01:42:39 < salcedo> i also buy eggs from "the egg lady" who has an illegal chicken operation down the street
2019-08-20T01:42:52 < salcedo> because they taste way better than the crap from the store
2019-08-20T01:42:53 < qyx> illegal chickens?
2019-08-20T01:42:53 < qyx> wut
2019-08-20T01:43:11 < qyx> you can't have your own chickens?
2019-08-20T01:43:21 < salcedo> not within city limits
2019-08-20T01:43:43 < salcedo> gardens are ok as long as you're not turning your whole yard into a farm
2019-08-20T01:43:48 < salcedo> no chickens/livestock
2019-08-20T01:43:57 < salcedo> no rainwater collection
2019-08-20T01:44:11 < qyx> you are weird
2019-08-20T01:44:18 < salcedo> not weird. it's the laws here.
2019-08-20T01:44:27 < qyx> here you are obliged to cope with rainwater falling on your property
2019-08-20T01:44:54 < salcedo> you're allowed to let it fall but you're not allowed to collect it to use it for watering plants or drinking.
2019-08-20T01:44:55 < qyx> you have to either collect it and use it or use the rain water drainage
2019-08-20T01:44:58 < qyx> or how is it called
2019-08-20T01:45:04 < qyx> if there is one
2019-08-20T01:45:22 < salcedo> you can divert it through the process of drainage, yes. as long as you're not using it yourself.
2019-08-20T01:45:38 < salcedo> that water from the sky is property of nestle, duh.
2019-08-20T01:45:51 < specing> salcedo:lol
2019-08-20T01:46:05 < qyx> here it is your property when it falls
2019-08-20T01:46:15 < salcedo> in all seriousness, there is actually a rainwater collection ban in my town.
2019-08-20T01:46:19 < salcedo> as there are in many places in the US
2019-08-20T01:46:20 < specing> salcedo:where are you
2019-08-20T01:46:33 < salcedo> it's a health concern
2019-08-20T01:46:53 < salcedo> because idiots will collect water and not manage it correctly and cause mosquitto outbreaks that spread disease
2019-08-20T01:48:18 < salcedo> or worse, drink it without making it pottable first.
2019-08-20T01:48:47 < salcedo> besides, it's 90% glyphosate anyway.
2019-08-20T01:49:50 < englishman> hmm, wifeishman just told me the average chicken weight this year is 9.5lbs
2019-08-20T01:49:54 < englishman> those some big ass chickens
2019-08-20T01:49:58 < englishman> and this is just the first batch
2019-08-20T01:50:13 < englishman> 4.3kg for your yruos
2019-08-20T01:50:28 < Steffanx> jly:  likes chicken wings
2019-08-20T01:50:33 < Steffanx> Or nuggets
2019-08-20T01:50:56 < englishman> the tendies
2019-08-20T01:51:37 < qyx> so about 75*3 kg of meat?
2019-08-20T01:51:53 < specing> salcedo: Lol and they ban collection for that?
2019-08-20T01:52:04 < specing> Sounds like you need to be doing an illegal collection operation just out of spite
2019-08-20T01:52:21 < specing> bet the tap water is really expensive in your are
2019-08-20T01:52:24 < specing> a
2019-08-20T01:52:36 < salcedo> lol it is
2019-08-20T01:52:48 < salcedo> i collect anyway by way of underground cistern that was installed pre-bans
2019-08-20T01:52:49 < Cracki> leaded is always more expensive
2019-08-20T01:52:59 < specing> :)
2019-08-20T01:53:07 < salcedo> then i pump it out into the gardens
2019-08-20T01:54:08 < englishman> qyx: not sure how much the bones weigh but those weights are cleaned and dressed
2019-08-20T01:55:24 < salcedo> it's all about freedom tho.
2019-08-20T01:55:40 < salcedo> as long as you're completely reliant on walmart, dollar general, amazon, google, you're free.
2019-08-20T01:56:24 < qyx> are you watering your plants with nestle's water?
2019-08-20T01:56:33 < salcedo> ... maybe.
2019-08-20T01:57:20 < salcedo> if they want it back they can come get it. all of my neighbors are heavily armed vietnam veterans with PTSD.
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2019-08-20T01:58:39 < qyx> englishman: are you able to eath them all during the year? or do you give away some?
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2019-08-20T02:02:46 < englishman> no that's an insane amount of meat especially with the pork and beef. most of it is sold
2019-08-20T02:02:59 < englishman> we are still eating last year's chicken
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2019-08-20T02:11:58 < karlp> does this work for doing digitally enabled i2c pullups? or is there somethign simpler?
2019-08-20T02:12:00 < karlp> https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html?cct=$+1+0.000005+49.687244006919805+61+5+50%0Aw+288+128+400+128+0%0Ar+400+128+400+288+0+4700%0Aw+400+320+400+336+0%0Af+288+304+400+304+0+1.5+0.02%0AR+288+128+240+128+0+0+40+3.3+0+0+0.5%0Ag+400+336+400+384+0%0Af+432+304+544+304+0+1.5+0.02%0Ar+544+128+544+288+0+4700%0Aw+400+128+544+128+0%0Aw+432+304+432+256+0%0Aw+432+256+288+256+0%0Aw+288+304+288+256+0%0Aw+544+320+
2019-08-20T02:12:02 < karlp> 544+368+0%0Ag+544+368+544+384+0%0Ax+416+359+529+362+4+24+i2c%5Cspullups%0Aw+288+304+256+304+0%0AS+256+304+208+304+0+0+false+0+2%0Aw+288+128+208+288+0%0Aw+208+320+208+384+0%0Ag+208+384+208+400+0%0A
2019-08-20T02:12:04 < karlp> fuck that was longer than I thought
2019-08-20T02:12:11 < karlp> http://tinyurl.com/y37mrp5w
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2019-08-20T02:14:39 < englishman> maybe put a second nfet to actually simulate the opendrain i2c peripherals?
2019-08-20T02:14:40 < Thorn> I reduced the resistors to 2.2K and the drain voltage is now higher
2019-08-20T02:15:08 < Thorn> should not be a problem with a low Rds(on) mosfet though
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2019-08-20T02:15:52 < englishman> what is the point of the circuit?
2019-08-20T02:16:03 < englishman> disabling pullups to save power?
2019-08-20T02:16:14 < karlp> programatiocally enablinig i2c pullups or not.
2019-08-20T02:16:20 < englishman> yes but why
2019-08-20T02:16:23 < karlp> no, just so I don't have too many pullups if the other thing has them already
2019-08-20T02:16:33 < englishman> ah ok
2019-08-20T02:17:12 < karlp> currently I've just had jumpers, but .... moahh software!
2019-08-20T02:17:31 < karlp> (I've also never needed it....)
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2019-08-20T03:22:46 < jadew> you know what's funny, when you look up a piece of test equipment on ebay and it matches the name of some audi car
2019-08-20T03:22:56 < jadew> and if you sort by price, the cars come first
2019-08-20T03:35:10 < johntramp> I have a stack defined in startup.c which has a #defined STACK_SIZE.  Is there a clean way to make that use all the available remaining RAM after static allocations?
2019-08-20T03:36:13 < Thorn> johntramp: you need to define the symbol in the linker script
2019-08-20T03:36:25 < Thorn> not in your source
2019-08-20T03:40:59 < johntramp> here is my .ld http://ix.io/1SMh which has a stack_dummy section, so I would replace that and have the stack pointer defined by the linker?
2019-08-20T03:43:48 < disposabled[m]> salcedo: +1 day
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2019-08-20T03:44:42 < disposabled[m]> how do I catch an interrupt for a pin 10 on an stm32f103?
2019-08-20T03:52:16 < machinehum> Check the external interrupt group
2019-08-20T03:52:32 < machinehum> It might be a shared vetor
2019-08-20T03:52:36 < machinehum> vector
2019-08-20T03:53:46 < Thorn> johntramp: your stack size would be something like ORIGIN(ram) + LENGTH(ram) - _end (assuming the top of stack is at the end of ram which doesn't seem to be the case in your script for some reason)
2019-08-20T04:01:33 < mawk> disposabled[m]: set the pin as EXTI then enable it in the NVIC
2019-08-20T04:01:42 < mawk> and you get the interrupt for the whole bank, just switch on it
2019-08-20T04:02:04 < mawk> if using HAL you have callbacks for it with the pin number as argument
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2019-08-20T04:04:31 < johntramp> Thorn: thanks, I think I know what to do :)
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2019-08-20T05:10:47 < Cracki> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32962923775.html
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2019-08-20T05:26:57 <@aandrew> heh
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2019-08-20T06:58:13 <@aandrew> https://imgur.com/gallery/0ML3jqP
2019-08-20T07:31:06 < Cracki> lol
2019-08-20T07:32:46 < Cracki> I feel like having that
2019-08-20T07:54:22 < jadew> I wouldn't mind it either
2019-08-20T07:54:39 < jadew> it's best when you have it with beer
2019-08-20T08:03:35 < Cracki> half for display, like having a fire axe, or a revolver and bullet
2019-08-20T08:04:54 < Cracki> hmmm brewing with meat? yeast wants sugar, but for flavor...
2019-08-20T08:05:19 < Cracki> bacon-flavored whiskey or something outrageous like that
2019-08-20T08:05:43 < Cracki> (just watched an episode of seaquest dsv where they talk about meat being banned)
2019-08-20T08:07:32 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkuwffDFWQA
2019-08-20T08:11:53 < jadew> I think I'll watch that tv show
2019-08-20T08:17:16 < Cracki> what I really like about seaquest is how they _don't_ step into lazy-writing (drama) traps
2019-08-20T08:18:37 < Cracki> nobody gets shot, people show emotions without acting on them, no pettiness etc
2019-08-20T08:18:58 < Cracki> anti-drama, to to speak
2019-08-20T08:19:30 < Cracki> a generation of entertainment that still seriously conveyed values
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2019-08-20T09:22:09 < zyp> got an email yesterday telling me to have my driveway free of cars and other stuff by 7am today
2019-08-20T09:22:28 < zyp> they weren't kidding, got woken up by them driving a road roller literally right outside my bedroom wall
2019-08-20T09:22:44 < Cracki> :D
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2019-08-20T12:35:01 < karlp> johntramp: yeah, just don't try and set things to have a fixed stack size,and let it use it all naturally?
2019-08-20T12:37:56 < karlp> maybe the ranters just wore themselves out.
2019-08-20T12:41:16 < karlp> aandrew: I found some premixed (but strong ones, like 15% or so) in toothpaste tubes in the airport in riga, not exactly 37.5 juice boxes, but I still thought it was neat.  (foul taste though unfortunately)
2019-08-20T13:21:11 < jadew> yay or nay? http://86.127.196.108/stuff/pmo-demo1.jpg
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2019-08-20T13:26:45 < jadew> I got the color wrong
2019-08-20T13:27:26 < jadew> yeah, I guess now I can calibrate from the photo and if I make new ones, it would probably match
2019-08-20T13:27:30 < jadew> or be a bit closer
2019-08-20T13:30:21 < karlp> anyone seen upgrdman recently? this looks just like his project: https://www.banggood.com/Handheld-Spectrum-Analyzer-High-Sensitivity-2_4G-Band-OLED-Display-Tester-Meter-p-1513000.html
2019-08-20T13:31:14 < jadew> wasn't he making arduino videos?
2019-08-20T13:31:27 < jadew> maybe he gave out the source in one of them?
2019-08-20T13:32:44 < Ultrasauce> doesnt look like it at all
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2019-08-20T13:38:43 < Steffanx> jadew:  I like the colour being different :P
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2019-08-20T13:39:06 < Steffanx> Will you ever get it right for everyone anyway? 
2019-08-20T13:39:55 < jadew> Steffanx, from what I could tell, no
2019-08-20T13:40:08 < jadew> it looks like there are several shades of gray
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2019-08-20T13:40:48 < kakimir> so
2019-08-20T13:40:53 < Steffanx> And a shitload more due to aging etc
2019-08-20T13:40:53 < jadew> but I hoped I'd get at least one right
2019-08-20T13:40:54 < kakimir> problem was uefi mode
2019-08-20T13:41:00 < jadew> Steffanx, yeah
2019-08-20T13:41:07 < kakimir> these are the mobos from transition ages
2019-08-20T13:41:18 < kakimir> win8 was just out and stuff
2019-08-20T13:41:20 < Steffanx> When I see your pic I'm not like: that doesnt belong there
2019-08-20T13:41:34 < jadew> that's good then
2019-08-20T13:41:44 < jadew> thanks
2019-08-20T13:42:04 < englishman> damn karlp that is kawaii as fuck
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2019-08-20T13:43:58 < karlp> Ultrasauce: his did more, but it was the same, 2.4gig only, on a tiny screen, what am I misremembering?
2019-08-20T13:44:21 < Ultrasauce> his was bigger, extra io, more functions
2019-08-20T13:45:23 < jadew> it's unlike the chinese to remove features in order to cut down cost
2019-08-20T13:45:41 < karlp> well, I mena, his was in a 3d printed case too, I just meant that the "tiny scvreen for a tiny 2.4gig analyser" looks just like his thing
2019-08-20T13:46:53 < salcedo> terraform rulez
2019-08-20T13:47:02 < Ultrasauce> i guess i misinterpreted "just like" but its definitely not a clone or whatever
2019-08-20T13:47:33 < karlp> nah, I mean, it's a pretty basic application anyway, jsut reminded me of it.
2019-08-20T13:47:36  * karlp shrugs
2019-08-20T13:47:42 < Ultrasauce> ah ok
2019-08-20T13:47:50 < jadew> time for bed, ttyl
2019-08-20T13:48:02 < Ultrasauce> i have an rf explorer and i dont like it very much
2019-08-20T13:48:13 < englishman> yeah it isnt great
2019-08-20T13:48:16 < jadew> I always thought they're silly devices
2019-08-20T13:48:47 < salcedo> took almost a week for jlcpcbs to get through customs
2019-08-20T13:48:52 < englishman> it's handy and small and cheap but that's about it
2019-08-20T13:48:57 < salcedo> i should have made my name Apple Inc
2019-08-20T13:49:05 < englishman> although it was around before sdrs were popular iirc
2019-08-20T13:49:31 < jadew> it's doing sub GHz scanning, right?
2019-08-20T13:50:05 < jadew> ISM only IIRC?
2019-08-20T13:50:07 < Ultrasauce> i use it in the 5ghz band mostly
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2019-08-20T13:50:59 < jadew> I'm out, ttyl
2019-08-20T13:59:21 < zyp> hmm, didn't know octavo had packed stm32mp1
2019-08-20T13:59:22 < zyp> https://octavosystems.com/octavo_products/osd32mp15x/
2019-08-20T14:00:43 < karlp> Ultrasauce: this thing? http://rfexplorer.com/
2019-08-20T14:03:59 < Ultrasauce> yes
2019-08-20T14:11:37 < englishman> 302 ball 16x16
2019-08-20T14:12:46 < englishman> ok its a typo
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2019-08-20T14:13:16 < englishman> think it'll be <$5?
2019-08-20T14:14:06 < zyp> 18x18
2019-08-20T14:14:49 < zyp> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/octavo-systems-llc/OSD3358-512M-BAS/1676-1000-ND/6012564 <- probably not gonna be cheaper than this shit
2019-08-20T14:15:22 < englishman> ouch
2019-08-20T14:15:51 < zyp> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ghi-electronics-llc/POCKETBEAGLE-SC-569/POCKETBEAGLE-SC-569-ND/7603326 <- fun part is that this shit is cheaper
2019-08-20T14:16:04 < zyp> with the same module on it
2019-08-20T14:16:22 < englishman> is octavo at least known for good product lifecycles or something?
2019-08-20T14:16:36 < englishman> hahaha
2019-08-20T14:16:40 < zyp> no idea what they're known for
2019-08-20T14:21:01 < englishman> https://www.instagram.com/p/B1WZBYLgJXG/
2019-08-20T14:21:03 < englishman> i love these things
2019-08-20T14:22:23 < karlp> sea planes? vertical films? or little drones?
2019-08-20T14:22:38 < englishman> the cl415
2019-08-20T14:22:45 < karlp> are those fire bombers in the canaries?
2019-08-20T14:22:54 < karlp> yeah, jsut saw canaria in the caption
2019-08-20T14:23:13 < englishman> here's how they work https://vimeo.com/48642618
2019-08-20T14:23:15 < karlp> was wondering why there was more than one at a time :)
2019-08-20T14:32:00 < kakimir> should 6GB do with freenas?
2019-08-20T14:52:57 < Steffanx> 16
2019-08-20T14:52:59 < Steffanx> 32
2019-08-20T14:53:51 < Steffanx> One GB per TB they say
2019-08-20T14:57:32 < Steffanx> Google knows all about it
2019-08-20T14:58:29 < kakimir> nice
2019-08-20T14:58:40 < kakimir> so I have about 5T of disks
2019-08-20T14:59:42 < karlp> I love that they scoop at 70knots, not land and fill then take off again.
2019-08-20T15:05:18 < kakimir> can ddr3 have different voltage rating per slot?
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2019-08-20T15:07:16 < kakimir> I have 4gb 12800 7-8-8-24 1.5V there
2019-08-20T15:07:27 < kakimir> need to buy something for another slot
2019-08-20T15:09:59 < zyp> why bother with freenas?
2019-08-20T15:12:15 < kakimir> idk
2019-08-20T15:12:19 < kakimir> why not?
2019-08-20T15:12:28 < kakimir> I already have it running
2019-08-20T15:14:49 < zyp> why not just run a normal linux installation?
2019-08-20T15:15:59 < kakimir> idk man
2019-08-20T15:16:12 < kakimir> why did I install it
2019-08-20T15:19:09 <@aandrew> I didn't know englishman was doing tiny nrf24 specans
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2019-08-20T15:25:31 < salcedo> President Dwayne Laurencezo B Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho
2019-08-20T15:25:35 < kakimir> Haohmaru: yes I was
2019-08-20T15:41:57 < Steffanx> p
2019-08-20T15:42:28 < Steffanx> I'm ok with freenas. It works fine and has a nice web ui for the quick things
2019-08-20T15:43:56 < kakimir> it's click click
2019-08-20T15:44:14 < kakimir> looking fresh the ui
2019-08-20T15:45:56 < Laurenceb> 9 amazing irc conversations, you will be shocked by number 8
2019-08-20T15:46:34 < kakimir> ?
2019-08-20T15:46:38 < Laurenceb> nvm
2019-08-20T15:46:51 < Laurenceb> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/5D60/production/_108340932_actibity.png
2019-08-20T15:46:53 < Laurenceb> NEET
2019-08-20T15:48:10 < kakimir> 1gigaohm
2019-08-20T15:48:14 < kakimir> and rising
2019-08-20T15:48:18 < Laurenceb> NEET seems to be decreasing
2019-08-20T15:48:25 < Laurenceb>  /r9k/ dead
2019-08-20T15:48:29 < kakimir> it's sad
2019-08-20T15:49:46 < Laurenceb> neet lifestyler
2019-08-20T15:50:15 < Laurenceb> n337
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2019-08-20T16:03:51 < Laurenceb> salcedo> fully impossible beyond meat with convergant neural smart nanoparticulates to bring SoyNet online among the NPCs
2019-08-20T16:03:56 < Laurenceb> keeek he is losing it
2019-08-20T16:29:23 -!- kakimir [b237b2c4@178-55-178-196.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2019-08-20T16:49:58 < Laurenceb> He's dead Jim! Chrome ran out of memory
2019-08-20T16:50:10 < Laurenceb> javascript intensifies
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2019-08-20T16:54:49 < Thorn> my bytecode VM is running
2019-08-20T16:55:15 < Thorn> time to write an assember
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2019-08-20T17:08:43 < salcedo> im noobing vuejs right now
2019-08-20T17:08:57 < salcedo> what started out as a reflow oven turned into re-doing 2 other sites in vue
2019-08-20T17:28:50 -!- kakimir [575d220c@87-93-34-12.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-20T17:30:46 < kakimir> is there a way to do full disk or partial disk backups from windows machine that are encrypted client side and are stored encrypted?
2019-08-20T17:30:53 < kakimir> in nas
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2019-08-20T17:46:15 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961733990.html
2019-08-20T17:47:47 < salcedo> kakimir: https://restic.net/
2019-08-20T17:49:10 < Laurenceb> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/6995/production/_108292072_gettyimages-615032236-nc.jpg
2019-08-20T17:49:36 < kakimir> salcedo: how does it work in windows?
2019-08-20T17:49:38 -!- tprrt [~tprrt@217.114.204.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-08-20T17:49:43 < salcedo> kakimir: the same way it works on *nix
2019-08-20T17:49:54 < kakimir> in no circumstance I will launch cmd to backup
2019-08-20T17:50:24 < salcedo> then use subscription-based NSA backdoored bullshit from the windows store
2019-08-20T17:50:39 < kakimir> maybe there is a way to schedule it
2019-08-20T17:51:02 < Steffanx> I'll will steal your datas
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2019-08-20T17:54:15 < bitmask> how are you gents doing
2019-08-20T17:58:06 < Laurenceb> keek https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49393858
2019-08-20T17:58:26 < Laurenceb> >People were smoking in the building; people were drinking in the parking lot and having sex in their cars.
2019-08-20T17:58:41 < Laurenceb> wtf I want to wurk at faceberg now
2019-08-20T17:59:33 <@aandrew> salcedo: have you used restic?
2019-08-20T18:01:17 < salcedo> s/used/use
2019-08-20T18:02:38 < salcedo> i use it with an external ssd. have not used it with external storage, though assume it would be just as good.
2019-08-20T18:02:50 < salcedo> err remote storage, rather
2019-08-20T18:03:31 < salcedo> my super fast innanetz won't let me upload my data to Palantir-Google
2019-08-20T18:03:32 < bitmask> Laurenceb that sounds like the perfect job for you
2019-08-20T18:04:19 < Laurenceb> ikr
2019-08-20T18:04:41 < Laurenceb> le sjw face https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/7586/production/_108368003_stellakalinina_sarahroberts_7246_sm.jpg
2019-08-20T18:05:38 < salcedo> Laurenceb's perfect job: https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/25/18229714/cognizant-facebook-content-moderator-interviews-trauma-working-conditions-arizona
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2019-08-20T18:10:00 < karlp> nice. this device's "2s complement hex" uses the sign bit as the not sign bit.
2019-08-20T18:10:23 < karlp> 0..0x7fff are negative, 0x8000..0xffff are positive.
2019-08-20T18:10:59 < Laurenceb> salcedo: found you https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-49343280
2019-08-20T18:12:39 < karlp> even better, the docs explicitly contradict the reality
2019-08-20T18:14:39 <@aandrew> salcedo: interesting. I have been using duplicity for the last several years and am pretty happy with it (s3 backend)
2019-08-20T18:14:50 <@aandrew> karlp: which device is that? wtf?
2019-08-20T18:15:24 < karlp> ADAM-4117
2019-08-20T18:15:53 < karlp> their own tooling and the dmm and my "reality" based inspection says one way, docs say the "normal" way.
2019-08-20T18:21:36  * karlp triple checks reds/blacks and +/-s on all the leads, and yes. still busted.
2019-08-20T18:37:16 < jadew> lol, in AU registered mail is not tracked
2019-08-20T18:37:42 < karlp> no, it's registered, not the same thing.
2019-08-20T18:37:47 < karlp> means it gets signed for, 
2019-08-20T18:38:01 < jadew> yeah, they say you get a signature notification, but that's it
2019-08-20T18:38:06 < karlp> yep.
2019-08-20T18:38:13 < karlp> it's exactly what it says it is.
2019-08-20T18:38:37 < karlp> after a stat period you can claim some insurance on it, and they're allowed to be insursred for more than that, but it's not a tracked service.
2019-08-20T18:38:41 < karlp> it's never claimed to be
2019-08-20T18:39:17 < jadew> it's surprising tho, do many countries do that?
2019-08-20T18:39:21  * karlp shrugs
2019-08-20T18:39:37 < karlp> iirc usps had a ~similar thing, but been a while.
2019-08-20T18:39:46 < karlp> I have one here that's like that too,
2019-08-20T18:40:00 < jadew> I sent to the US using the same service and they track it
2019-08-20T18:40:00 < karlp> basically, the seller tries to be nice, but all it really means is I have to go to the post office and show id to et the parcel.
2019-08-20T18:40:10 < karlp> usps might have added tracking, I don't think it used to have it.
2019-08-20T18:40:22 < jpa-> here we have that for letters, but packages are always tracked
2019-08-20T18:48:24 < bitmask> which salt lamp do you guys like better?
2019-08-20T18:48:24 < bitmask> v
2019-08-20T18:48:25 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/0E72Dju
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2019-08-20T18:50:32 < Steffanx> None.
2019-08-20T18:50:51 < Steffanx> And they're all much smaller than you think they are
2019-08-20T18:50:58 < bitmask> I dont want them to be big
2019-08-20T18:51:07 < bitmask> so you are wrong
2019-08-20T18:51:29 < Steffanx> No I'm still right.
2019-08-20T18:51:32 < bitmask> what do you have against salt lamps
2019-08-20T18:51:34 < Steffanx> It's even smaller
2019-08-20T18:52:07 < bitmask> its a sentimental gift
2019-08-20T18:53:00 < bitmask> were you just ripped off when you tried to buy one?
2019-08-20T18:53:20 < Steffanx> Never tried this quackery 
2019-08-20T18:53:32 < bitmask> I'm not getting it for any health benefits, whats wrong with you 
2019-08-20T18:53:45 < Steffanx> Sorry for my optimism.
2019-08-20T18:53:52 < bitmask> hah
2019-08-20T18:54:53 < bitmask> we went to a spa thing for our anniversary and one of the rooms was pure himalayan salt, its just a nice looking reminder, I'm not trying to cure any ailments
2019-08-20T18:55:30 < bitmask> I just think they look cool
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2019-08-20T19:01:01 <@aandrew> https://youtu.be/sRwoYJyjZNo good video on lithium ion battery discharge down to 0V not causing damage, and even reverse charge to about -12% being ok
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2019-08-20T19:01:23 <@aandrew> TL;DR: lithium ion batteries are not damaged with discharge down to 0V and can be fully recovered in most cases
2019-08-20T19:01:36 <@aandrew> related research paper he cites: http://sci-hub.tw/10.1038/srep30248
2019-08-20T19:02:41 < karlp> so, what's with the old wisdom? is this really just exposing that the internal chemstires are not all the same, and there's all sorts of proprietary internals?
2019-08-20T19:03:11 <@aandrew> that's something he doesn't go in to, but it could be a remnant of early lithium ion tech
2019-08-20T19:05:06 <@aandrew> quick test on if your battery's hooped: slow charge to 4.2V, take it off, it'll probably sit somewhere near 4V. Let it sit overnight or for a few days and measure. if it's much below, it's got internal shorting and you should probably toss it. othewise, it's good
2019-08-20T19:06:52 < Laurenceb> hmm interesting
2019-08-20T19:07:12 < Laurenceb> the high altitude balloon batteries tended to fail by internal short after full discharge
2019-08-20T19:07:28 < Laurenceb> but they were also exposed to low temperatures and temperature cycling at the same time
2019-08-20T19:07:47 < Laurenceb> Leo managed about a year using a custom electrolyte
2019-08-20T19:07:54 < Laurenceb> dunno how he pulled that one off...
2019-08-20T19:08:01 <@aandrew> what was the electrolyte optimized for in that case?
2019-08-20T19:08:10 < Laurenceb> low temperature performance
2019-08-20T19:08:18 <@aandrew> interesting
2019-08-20T19:08:18 < Laurenceb> it was cooked up by a factory in china
2019-08-20T19:08:48 < karlp> he really put some serious hobby dollars into that project didn't he?
2019-08-20T19:08:50 < Laurenceb> they changed some of the parameters and did him a run of a few hundred batteries for $2k or so aiui
2019-08-20T19:08:54 < Laurenceb> karlp yeah
2019-08-20T19:09:17 < Laurenceb> karlp: he got some serious interest from the big boys too aiui
2019-08-20T19:09:31 < karlp> what are "the big boys" in HAB space?
2019-08-20T19:09:40 < karlp> underfunded poor meteo people?
2019-08-20T19:09:48 < karlp> or what? I bet his budget was bigger than theirs
2019-08-20T19:09:48 < Laurenceb> in Washington DC
2019-08-20T19:10:01 < karlp> dc's a big place, what sort of people?
2019-08-20T19:10:05 < Steffanx> He's no longer doing it is he?
2019-08-20T19:10:08 < Laurenceb> spy balloons
2019-08-20T19:10:14 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: nobody knows...
2019-08-20T19:10:30 < Steffanx> Is the habhub channel dead?
2019-08-20T19:10:34 < Laurenceb> certainly no more hobby balloons
2019-08-20T19:10:53 < Laurenceb> dunno but these days it seems full of n00bs and boring hobby bobbies
2019-08-20T19:11:41 < Laurenceb> itd be interesting to see if google loon goes anywhere, some of the more pro hab guys work for them now
2019-08-20T19:12:16 < Laurenceb> but imo loon suffers from the megaproject problem - without going all out it doesnt work well
2019-08-20T19:13:15 < Steffanx> The rockoon is dead too?
2019-08-20T19:13:25 < Laurenceb> all the evidence points to the envelope icing models that people had used to argue that you could fly for a decade or more are inaccurate
2019-08-20T19:13:34 < Laurenceb> dunno about rockoon, maybe I will do some work on it
2019-08-20T19:14:21 < Laurenceb> so it looks like its hard to fly a dumb balloon for more than 2 year or so before it ices up, but loon is "smart", it can move up and down
2019-08-20T19:14:40 < Laurenceb> so maybe google can make them fly for a decade or more
2019-08-20T19:16:37 < Laurenceb> in which case it could btfo starlink
2019-08-20T19:17:50 < jadew> the icing problem is that ice forms on them?
2019-08-20T19:17:58 < englishman> uhh
2019-08-20T19:18:10 < englishman> any 18650 with only 1Ah is a heavily degraded battery
2019-08-20T19:18:26 < englishman> even low capacity 18650s are >2Ah
2019-08-20T19:19:22 < Laurenceb> jadew: yeah, and they sink
2019-08-20T19:22:04 < Mangy_Dog> i have 2x 3500mha 18650s in my project
2019-08-20T19:22:18 < englishman> bigclive is full of big shit
2019-08-20T19:22:29 < Mangy_Dog> he isnt
2019-08-20T19:22:33 < Mangy_Dog> hes rather good actually
2019-08-20T19:22:39 < englishman> and that research paper is missing the capacity chart it referrs to and doesn't draw any conclusions
2019-08-20T19:22:41 < englishman> bullshit
2019-08-20T19:22:45 < englishman> he's a blogger
2019-08-20T19:22:58 < Mangy_Dog> no hes a professional spark with decades of experience
2019-08-20T19:23:04 < englishman> go and discharge all your lips to 0V then
2019-08-20T19:23:16 < englishman> yes a sparky
2019-08-20T19:23:22 < englishman> is telling me how to treat my batteries
2019-08-20T19:23:26 < englishman> a blogger sparky
2019-08-20T19:23:28 < englishman> excellent
2019-08-20T19:23:39 < Mangy_Dog> you dont get the term spark do you?
2019-08-20T19:23:49 < englishman> Sparky is an electrician here
2019-08-20T19:23:52 < Mangy_Dog> i dont mean a run of the mill electrician
2019-08-20T19:23:56 < Mangy_Dog> no it isnt
2019-08-20T19:23:59 < Mangy_Dog> not in the industry it isnt
2019-08-20T19:24:08 < englishman> ok, you're wrong about that tho
2019-08-20T19:24:13 < Steffanx> Dont forget the englishman  is a canuck ;)
2019-08-20T19:24:22 < Mangy_Dog> it means electriction but also lighting engineer and stage power
2019-08-20T19:24:39 < englishman> so people who pull Romex and flick switches that other people designed
2019-08-20T19:24:39 < Mangy_Dog> hes working in teh industry for decades
2019-08-20T19:24:48 < Mangy_Dog> umm no
2019-08-20T19:25:08 < englishman> and definitely nothing at all involving batteries 
2019-08-20T19:25:17 < englishman> or product development
2019-08-20T19:25:19 < englishman> or research
2019-08-20T19:25:22 < englishman> ?
2019-08-20T19:26:02 < Mangy_Dog> aand he most certainly doesnt tell people to discharge lipos to 0
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2019-08-20T19:26:24 < Mangy_Dog> ive seen plenty of tear down videos of his where he talks about over discharge protection
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2019-08-20T19:33:41 < salcedo> electrician? they don't exist on linkedin.
2019-08-20T19:33:56 < salcedo> there are plenty of Senior Household Electrical Engineer III's though.
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2019-08-20T19:36:12 < Laurenceb> kek
2019-08-20T19:36:31 < Laurenceb> all I know is all the balloon batteries failed after 20 or so full discharges
2019-08-20T19:36:40 < Laurenceb> a single full discharge never killed a cell
2019-08-20T19:42:35 < salcedo> interesting. honeywell thermostat changed its MO after a month of no internet connectivity.
2019-08-20T19:42:42 < salcedo> it damn near blew out the compressor.
2019-08-20T19:43:00 < salcedo> i wonder if this is intentional. i should tear this thing apart. doubt the firmware will be readable.
2019-08-20T19:44:27 < Cracki> >by country: France: NO https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019#developer-profile-_-will-people-born-today-have-a-better-life-than-their-parents
2019-08-20T19:44:45 < Cracki> I wonder why that is
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2019-08-20T19:54:10 < jadew> Cracki, when you're at the top there's only one way to go
2019-08-20T19:54:24 < Cracki> they have been on the descent for a few years
2019-08-20T19:55:30 < jadew> the more competition there is for jobs, the less happy people will be
2019-08-20T19:56:01 < Cracki> in other words, they have too many people without a perspective
2019-08-20T19:56:02 < jadew> don't know how you balance that out with other aspects of an economy tho
2019-08-20T19:56:30 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-08-20T19:56:39 < jadew> communism would solve that
2019-08-20T19:57:12 < jadew> you wouldn't have anything to aspire to and everyone would be assigned a job
2019-08-20T19:57:15 < Cracki> that's what I said to the weirdo yesterday who thought poland and hungary are more dangerous than paris
2019-08-20T19:57:36 < Cracki> *something* to do for everyone
2019-08-20T19:57:45 < Cracki> he hated two things, bureaucrats and women
2019-08-20T19:58:02 < Cracki> beyond what's warranted
2019-08-20T19:59:25 < Cracki> for the disabled (physically or mentally) we have something they call "workshop for the disabled"
2019-08-20T20:00:07 < Cracki> if you're just blind or in a wheelchair, ordinary companies can still use you, but if your head is mushy, you get to work in those places
2019-08-20T20:03:31 < Cracki> that works for the compliant ones... but the new kind isn't compliant at all.
2019-08-20T20:04:08 < antto> es tea em furdy too
2019-08-20T20:08:25 < Cracki> fardy
2019-08-20T20:08:50 < antto> no, FURRRdy
2019-08-20T20:08:56 < Cracki> furry
2019-08-20T20:09:16 < antto> ur walking on the edge of a blade
2019-08-20T20:09:19 < antto> son
2019-08-20T20:09:21 < Cracki> purrdy
2019-08-20T20:09:35 < Steffanx> Hello antto. its a good day to see you
2019-08-20T20:09:43 < Cracki> >blade
2019-08-20T20:09:45 < Cracki> get off my lawn mower
2019-08-20T20:09:45 < antto> u can't akchually see me
2019-08-20T20:09:52 < Steffanx> You dont know
2019-08-20T20:10:02 < antto> i know
2019-08-20T20:10:22 < Steffanx> you think you do
2019-08-20T20:10:37 < antto> i am omniaware
2019-08-20T20:11:20 < Steffanx> I see.
2019-08-20T20:12:28  * antto turns the lights off
2019-08-20T20:12:34 < antto> now ya dun see
2019-08-20T20:12:45 < Steffanx> is it that dark in the .bg?
2019-08-20T20:12:52 < antto> uh oh, smells like beans
2019-08-20T20:13:07 < antto> not yet
2019-08-20T20:13:17 < Steffanx> but the basement is right?
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2019-08-20T22:40:14 < benishor> "Suggested Layout for PCB Design: PL-262"
2019-08-20T22:40:21 < benishor> anyone knows what that means?
2019-08-20T22:40:27 < benishor> I can't seem to find a reference
2019-08-20T22:40:36 < benishor> I want a footprint for a MAR-3+
2019-08-20T22:42:13 < benishor> oh shit. I just found it https://ww2.minicircuits.com/pcb/98-pl262.pdf
2019-08-20T22:42:33 < benishor> it's gonna take me ages to create that footprint
2019-08-20T22:43:12 < Steffanx> See you in a few years benishor :)
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2019-08-20T22:44:22 < benishor> yeah, not to mention that dimensions are in inches on top of everything :)
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2019-08-20T23:37:29 < benishor> best effort so far: https://imgur.com/a/kqZVPEL
2019-08-20T23:40:16 < rajkosto> oh its a standard high power analog amplifier footprint ?
2019-08-20T23:41:23 < benishor> yeah, a footprint for MAR-3+ or MSA-0385 and the likes
2019-08-20T23:41:26 < benishor> MMIC
2019-08-20T23:47:42 <@aandrew> benishor: oh that looks like fun
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--- Day changed Wed Aug 21 2019
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2019-08-21T01:06:45 < Steffanx> Does it NAS yet kakimir ?
2019-08-21T01:07:21 < kakimir> in september maybe
2019-08-21T01:07:32 < kakimir> I get chinese minisas-sata adapter cables
2019-08-21T01:07:52 < Steffanx> Lol whokay
2019-08-21T01:18:36 < kakimir> it was like 3weeks ago that I ordered them and have had the raid card over a week now
2019-08-21T01:19:06 < kakimir> it says expected arrival: september 18 or something
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2019-08-21T02:07:50 < jadew> benishor, what are you making?
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2019-08-21T02:09:10  * jadew had a power supply malfunction
2019-08-21T02:09:23 < jadew> lots of smoke and nasty smell
2019-08-21T02:09:33 < jadew> I just hope it didn't get into the walls
2019-08-21T02:10:09 < jadew> tomorrow I'll have to wipe everything with alcohol and hope the stench won't remain
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2019-08-21T02:27:20 < salcedo> jadew: we had a BIG power supply malfunction here about 2 hours ago
2019-08-21T02:27:43 < salcedo> like giant arcs traveling across several power lines as they vaporized and transformers exploded
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2019-08-21T02:28:03 < salcedo> it was like a lightning-induced carrington event
2019-08-21T02:28:43 < salcedo> and will only be the 6th time power has gone out this month.
2019-08-21T02:29:08 < jadew> it looks like here it spread some sort of charred dust when it exploded
2019-08-21T02:29:25 < jadew> seems to be everywhere
2019-08-21T02:29:32 < machinehum> salcedo: Where do you work BC hydro?
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2019-08-21T02:34:29 <@aandrew> heh
2019-08-21T02:34:37 <@aandrew> he's in ohio I think?
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2019-08-21T02:37:51 < salcedo> Monsantoville, Ohio
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2019-08-21T02:45:27 < mawk> I emptied, cleaned, sliced and cooked an octopus
2019-08-21T02:45:33 < mawk> I want an anti-vegan medal now
2019-08-21T02:45:57 < Laurenceb> keek mr musk is talking to his latina femcel fans on twitter
2019-08-21T02:45:59 < englishman> is that all you found in the dumpster today
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2019-08-21T02:48:20 < karlp> man, new interactive puhs/shove routing thing in kicad 6 nightlies is awesome
2019-08-21T02:48:36 < karlp> I've moved into the present decade
2019-08-21T02:48:49 < salcedo> push/shove routing ?
2019-08-21T02:48:51 < salcedo> tf is that
2019-08-21T02:49:02 < karlp> what channel are you even in.
2019-08-21T02:49:07 < englishman> is it up to par with 2015 diptrace now?
2019-08-21T02:49:12 < salcedo> ##notkicad
2019-08-21T02:49:56 < salcedo> brb i'm gonna go down to kumar's and get an electronics engineering degree. $5
2019-08-21T02:53:13 < karlp> englishman: no idea, never used that :)
2019-08-21T02:53:52 < englishman> miður
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2019-08-21T03:28:01 < karlp> gettting some strange arse unconnected warnings though, cant' see how they're not.
2019-08-21T03:28:06 < karlp> anyway , late
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2019-08-21T04:19:35 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48773.180
2019-08-21T04:19:46 < Laurenceb> this forum is so retarded
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2019-08-21T04:33:01 < Cracki> you mean irresistible
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2019-08-21T04:36:38 < Cracki> critical hit
2019-08-21T04:41:38 < Cracki> what's the current research into autorouting PCBs? what comes after push and shove for manual routing? I feel like we're stuck in the age of macro assemblers
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2019-08-21T04:47:50 < Cracki> ah, they throw LP solvers at it
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2019-08-21T05:24:34 < disposabled[m]> salcedo: +2d?
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2019-08-21T06:05:34 < Cracki> anyone here seriously using eagle? how can you bear to suffer the awful user interaction? everything is a "tool", no hotkeys for those by default and plain letter keys aren't allowed, mouse hit test for small radius around component origin rather than full component area, ... why suffer through that?
2019-08-21T06:06:31 < Cracki> I expect every program since the 90s to support selecting objects and right-clicking for actions at least, and to not fuck that up
2019-08-21T06:06:59 < dongs> lol eagle
2019-08-21T06:07:03 < dongs> i tried to make a project in it once
2019-08-21T06:07:06 < dongs> it was a disaster
2019-08-21T06:07:06 < Cracki> exactly
2019-08-21T06:07:14 < dongs> never again after that
2019-08-21T06:07:55 < Cracki> I've been using it as a viewer only, so far. now I understand why boss keeps excusing and needing so much time for his board designing...
2019-08-21T06:09:15 < Cracki> autodesk has bought it in mid 2016. the current version has grown some features, but there's no fix for the bullshit
2019-08-21T06:09:19 < dongs> even as a viewer its gross
2019-08-21T06:09:26 < dongs> i used it for that once to like... try to find parts
2019-08-21T06:09:29 < dongs> its so unintuitive
2019-08-21T06:09:36 < dongs> to locate shit on the pcb
2019-08-21T06:09:43 < dongs> there's no net highlighting and shit
2019-08-21T06:09:48 < Cracki> they could have had a decent program by now if they had started from scratch or started with *whatever* cad fundament they have inhouse
2019-08-21T06:09:54 < dongs> everything looks awful and i couldnt find an easy way to mask other layers etc
2019-08-21T06:10:16 < dongs> plus retarded names for shit
2019-08-21T06:10:21 < dongs> iirc paste layer is called tCream
2019-08-21T06:10:22 < dongs> waht the fuck?
2019-08-21T06:10:26 < Cracki> my boss didn't know about "@show" where the @ draws a box and a line to top left corner around your selection...
2019-08-21T06:10:35 < Cracki> cream yeah that's silly
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2019-08-21T06:11:59 < Cracki> what do pr0s use anyway? the little board design I needed was dirt simple and I managed with whatever webshit I could find at the moment
2019-08-21T06:12:13 < Cracki> easyeda, something that looks like web-altium, ...
2019-08-21T06:12:47 < Cracki> *circusmaker
2019-08-21T06:15:40 < dongs> disgusting
2019-08-21T06:15:43 < dongs> altium is not bad
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2019-08-21T06:17:54 < Cracki> ok, never gonna touch kicad. seems to have similar retarded behavior
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2019-08-21T06:35:06 < englishman> altidumb 20 is p nice
2019-08-21T06:35:18 < dongs> did they fix net colored shit
2019-08-21T06:35:23 < dongs> i went back to 19.1
2019-08-21T06:35:41 < englishman> lol idk ive only done sch
2019-08-21T06:35:47 < dongs> yeah that was on sch
2019-08-21T06:35:55 < dongs> setting net color -> doesnt actually update display
2019-08-21T06:36:04 < englishman> hmm didnt notice thn and im using coloured nets
2019-08-21T06:36:07 < dongs> at least it seems they're revamping the graphics layer on a pretty low level
2019-08-21T06:36:09 < englishman> maybe its your gaytracing
2019-08-21T06:36:21 < dongs> cuz there's some new 3d accel options on things
2019-08-21T06:36:36 < englishman> yeah definitely used coloured nets in 20 with no probs
2019-08-21T06:36:43 < englishman> in sch
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2019-08-21T06:39:53 < englishman> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mclassic-the-first-plug-play-graphics-processor#/
2019-08-21T07:06:29 < turnip420> Designed by a team of scientists and engineers in Silicon Valley, plus a founding member of the N.W.A Rock and Roll Hall of Fame rap group, to deliver the most advanced video processing technology in a beautiful plug and play device!
2019-08-21T07:06:32 < turnip420> What
2019-08-21T07:07:24 < Cracki> waifu2x in hardware?
2019-08-21T07:07:47 < Cracki> does it do temporal interpolation too?
2019-08-21T07:08:12 < Cracki> that'd be more costly I think because to do it well you need optical flow
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2019-08-21T12:01:39 < jly> I thought the n?gge* accumulator was broken
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2019-08-21T14:34:53 < karlp> heh, get three reports covering testing of the same device from intertek.  product name has typos in one of the three.  "we charge for corrections"
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2019-08-21T14:38:26 < RocketScientist> Hi
2019-08-21T14:38:37 < onio> I am developing a STM32 microcontroller driver in C++ where I have to handle some interrupts handler and found this article which looks like a good template for what I want and looks sensible although very old, the problem is that it does not building
2019-08-21T14:38:55 < onio> https://www.embedded.com/design/prototyping-and-development/4023817/1/Interrupts-in-C-
2019-08-21T14:39:04 < onio> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Bz8Hd5rYtg/
2019-08-21T14:39:37 < karlp> what's the problem you're actually having?
2019-08-21T14:39:51 < onio> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ZsK3VQQDdw/
2019-08-21T14:40:04 < onio> karlp, linker error
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2019-08-21T14:44:21 < karlp> you know, after skimming that blog post, I'm not even going to try and help. sorry.
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2019-08-21T14:46:07 < onio> karlp, is that because it is tool old or just looks wrong?
2019-08-21T14:46:37 < Thorn> spacewalk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg
2019-08-21T14:46:49 < karlp> you realise you have to statically list all hundred or so interrupts in your master class there just so you can do this?
2019-08-21T14:47:30 < karlp> and you _then_ have to figure out how to make the addresses of those get put into the right form for a cortex-m vector table.
2019-08-21T14:47:37 < karlp> arm7 is.... not cortex-m.
2019-08-21T14:48:06 < karlp> your actual goal is to be able to have a context object when you get your interrupt right?
2019-08-21T14:48:10 < Thorn> arm7 only has irq and fiq?
2019-08-21T14:48:27 < onio> karlp, yes
2019-08-21T14:48:31 < karlp> bcos "OMG, can't have any globals, because I'm a l33t c++ c0d3r" ?
2019-08-21T14:49:03 < karlp> Thorn: probably, only reason why statically listing them would be sane?
2019-08-21T14:50:19 < Thorn> extern "C" void WTF_IRQHandler() {.wtf_driver.poll(); } // all you probably need if you're into c++
2019-08-21T14:52:07 < Mangy_Dog> would there be any reason why i cant get a pwm signal out of PA8 on the stm32f103?
2019-08-21T14:52:50 < karlp> Thorn: but omg, that requires a global wtf_driver!!!!!1!
2019-08-21T14:53:21 < Thorn> with a static constructor than runs before main() in an unspecified order
2019-08-21T14:54:41 < onio> Thorn, I am lost on your train of thought. 
2019-08-21T14:56:12 < karlp> he's giving you answers....
2019-08-21T14:56:51 < karlp> doesn't really matter if it's statically constructed or nto as long as you don't enable it in nvic though I'd say...
2019-08-21T14:56:57 < Steffanx> I recall zyp's laks can set interrupts handlers from code and add the proper "context" when the handler is called. 
2019-08-21T14:57:00 < Steffanx> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/
2019-08-21T14:57:13 < Steffanx> Not sure how proud zyp is of that code ;)
2019-08-21T14:57:14 < karlp> Steffanx:I couldn't find any example of hiim using it though :)
2019-08-21T14:57:25 < Steffanx> Yeah. Same.
2019-08-21T14:57:43 < Steffanx> But then he doesnt seem to use interrupt much in the examples.
2019-08-21T14:57:53 < Steffanx> Interrupts*
2019-08-21T14:58:05 < Steffanx> Polling is the way to go.
2019-08-21T15:00:02 < onio> Steffanx, I prefer interrupt to polling whenever possible
2019-08-21T15:00:44 < Steffanx> Sure, perhaps have a look at what zyp did
2019-08-21T15:01:03 < Steffanx> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/interrupt
2019-08-21T15:01:14 < onio> Steffanx, cool thanks, nice
2019-08-21T15:01:49 < karlp> it's at least designed for cortex-m
2019-08-21T15:02:42 < onio> karlp, thanks
2019-08-21T15:04:51 < canton7> Has anyone here ever arranged their ram such that .bss+.data is at the top of the ram region, and the stack sits below that and grows downloads (so that an overflowed stack generates a fault, and doesn't trash .bss+.data), as described here? https://blog.japaric.io/stack-overflow-protection/#fixing-it . Any gotchas to be aware of?
2019-08-21T15:11:14 < salcedo> disposabled[m]: +1d :/
2019-08-21T15:19:16 < karlp> canton7: it's interesting, and I'd say they've covered the issues fairly well, IMO
2019-08-21T15:21:18 < karlp> I'd trust that guys work more if he hadn't spent a pile of time developing an enc28j40 driver in rust though.
2019-08-21T15:22:46 < canton7> hah, fair. Thanks!
2019-08-21T15:23:01 < canton7> Turns out IAR, for all of its warts, does have a linker config that's powerful enough to express that
2019-08-21T15:25:07 < karlp> (I also would have appreciated if they'd spent their time patching binutils to expand the linker script syntax so we could all have it, but meh)
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2019-08-21T15:43:02 < karlp> heh, https://www.eenewsembedded.com/news/startup-claims-have-built-largest-chip-ever?news_id=120640
2019-08-21T15:53:21 < Ultrasauce> wonder what the yield is
2019-08-21T15:53:49 < Ultrasauce> 18gb of sram jesus fuck
2019-08-21T16:07:23 < effractur> lol
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2019-08-21T17:52:43 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Steffanx] by ChanServ
2019-08-21T17:52:54 -!- mode/##stm32 [+b *!~irf21k@157.45.49.*] by Steffanx
2019-08-21T17:52:59 <@aandrew> thanks, I was just about to do that
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2019-08-21T17:53:25 <@Steffanx> :)
2019-08-21T17:53:51 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
2019-08-21T17:56:49 < karlp> woops, locked up kicad importing an old pre-xml file format eagle file.
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2019-08-21T18:55:30 < mawk> bug report time
2019-08-21T18:59:19 < karlp> not even going to try, 
2019-08-21T18:59:34 < karlp> I spend enough time with kicad devs on footprints and symbols
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2019-08-21T19:38:12 < qyx> are you correcting symbols for me?
2019-08-21T19:41:29 < salcedo> just fork it then
2019-08-21T19:41:33 < salcedo> call it karlkad
2019-08-21T19:42:45 < salcedo> it forces a quick IQ and aptitude test on the first run
2019-08-21T19:43:18 < salcedo> less than 130 IQ, it rm -rf's your ~ in the background while pretending to work
2019-08-21T19:53:12 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm freertos issue... vTaskSuspend is crashing my mcu
2019-08-21T19:53:41 < Mangy_Dog> im trying to suspend another task (not the task im currently in)
2019-08-21T19:53:45 < Mangy_Dog> and it seems to hang
2019-08-21T19:54:34 < jpa-> where is it, when you break in debugger?
2019-08-21T19:55:11 < Mangy_Dog> im not running a break just serial prints at various stages in code run
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2019-08-21T20:05:06 < mawk> you included it in FreeRTOS conf I guess Mangy_Dog ?.
2019-08-21T20:05:22 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: umm, you don't use a debugger? why not?
2019-08-21T20:05:32 < karlp> it's probably inside the freertos assert sitting there trying to tell them :)
2019-08-21T20:05:37 < jpa-> yeah
2019-08-21T20:05:39 < Mangy_Dog> https://hastebin.com/tunomiyuna.cpp
2019-08-21T20:05:52 < Mangy_Dog> conf?
2019-08-21T20:05:55 < Mangy_Dog> what config?
2019-08-21T20:06:08 < mawk> your FreeRTOS.h or something with all the things like #define INCLUDE_vTaskSuspend 1
2019-08-21T20:06:26 < jpa-> i think it wouldn't build if it wasn't enabled
2019-08-21T20:06:42 < Mangy_Dog> it builds though
2019-08-21T20:06:51 < Mangy_Dog> just hangs the mcu when its triggered
2019-08-21T20:07:02 < jpa-> but check the debugger, freertos has a lot of asserts and it may have error message right there
2019-08-21T20:07:35 < Mangy_Dog> i cant use jtag anyway
2019-08-21T20:07:56 < jpa-> i thought you said you flash through stlink? that works also as debugger
2019-08-21T20:08:03 < mawk> you have SWD Mangy_Dog 
2019-08-21T20:08:06 < Mangy_Dog> on its own?
2019-08-21T20:08:07 < mawk> we enabled it the other day
2019-08-21T20:08:22 < Mangy_Dog> whats the debugger program?
2019-08-21T20:08:24 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: yeah, just need software on pc, such as openocd + gdb
2019-08-21T20:08:29 < Mangy_Dog> nto stlink utility?
2019-08-21T20:08:58 < jpa-> not sure if there is some free ST official one now, but i just use openocd
2019-08-21T20:09:20 < jpa-> https://community.particle.io/t/tutorial-using-eclipse-st-link-v2-openocd-to-debug/10042   this should work even if you don't use eclipse but command line gdb
2019-08-21T20:09:47 < Mangy_Dog> i use eclipse :p
2019-08-21T20:09:53 < jpa-> probably better tutorials elsewhere also
2019-08-21T20:10:07 < Mangy_Dog> in any case theres no config file
2019-08-21T20:10:45 < Mangy_Dog> for freertos
2019-08-21T20:11:06 < jpa-> it's just hiding somewhere
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2019-08-21T20:11:16 < mawk> you have FreeRTOSConfig.h somewhere
2019-08-21T20:11:17 < jpa-> did you check below the chair?
2019-08-21T20:11:20 < mawk> lol
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2019-08-21T20:11:34 < mawk> you're flashing through eclipse Mangy_Dog ?
2019-08-21T20:11:41 < Mangy_Dog> found it
2019-08-21T20:11:53 < mawk> you should have the debugger working
2019-08-21T20:11:54 < Mangy_Dog> no flashing in arduino ide as eclipse doesnt like my stlink for some reason
2019-08-21T20:11:56 < mawk> ah
2019-08-21T20:11:59 < mawk> uh
2019-08-21T20:12:04 < mawk> yeah use openocd
2019-08-21T20:12:13 < mawk> you can flash through it too
2019-08-21T20:12:37 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2019-08-21T20:12:42 < Mangy_Dog> trying to get the program now
2019-08-21T20:12:59 < Mangy_Dog> found the confic and suspend is already included
2019-08-21T20:13:32 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-21T20:13:40 < mawk> you need to build it I think Mangy_Dog 
2019-08-21T20:13:45 < Mangy_Dog> yeah :/
2019-08-21T20:13:50 < Mangy_Dog> just noticed no windows exe
2019-08-21T20:13:50 < mawk> but f103 is a pretty old chip your distro edition should work too
2019-08-21T20:13:52 < mawk> ah
2019-08-21T20:14:00 < jpa-> https://gnutoolchains.com/arm-eabi/openocd/
2019-08-21T20:14:26 < Mangy_Dog> ta
2019-08-21T20:15:49 < Mangy_Dog> is it command line?>
2019-08-21T20:15:59 < mawk> yes
2019-08-21T20:16:04 < mawk> but many IDEs integrate with it
2019-08-21T20:16:06 < mawk> but it's easy
2019-08-21T20:16:08 < Mangy_Dog> why cant things just be easy
2019-08-21T20:16:08 < mawk> even in CLI
2019-08-21T20:16:11 < mawk> it is !
2019-08-21T20:16:20 < mawk> it will spawn a remote gdb port you can use in eclipse most liekly
2019-08-21T20:17:30 < Mangy_Dog> btw that tutorial page is missing every image
2019-08-21T20:17:34 < Mangy_Dog> so cant actually follow the guide
2019-08-21T20:17:40 < mawk> lol
2019-08-21T20:17:56 < mawk> yeah just install openocd
2019-08-21T20:17:59 < Mangy_Dog> "insert the config as shown in the image!"
2019-08-21T20:18:02 < mawk> put it in %PATH%
2019-08-21T20:18:13 < mawk> and spawn it in a cmd.exe with correct arguments
2019-08-21T20:18:17 < mawk> and you have a remote gdb on some port
2019-08-21T20:18:18 < mawk> 4321 iirc
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2019-08-21T20:18:23 < mawk> or 4444 maybe
2019-08-21T20:18:25 < mawk> it will tell
2019-08-21T20:18:41 < Mangy_Dog> ill be honest youre speaking gibberish to me :/
2019-08-21T20:18:52 < mawk> get the openocd from https://gnutoolchains.com/arm-eabi/openocd/
2019-08-21T20:19:03 < mawk> you need 7-zip to unpack it, somewhat annoying
2019-08-21T20:19:16 < Mangy_Dog> winrar opens itoo
2019-08-21T20:19:19 < Mangy_Dog> it too
2019-08-21T20:20:42 < Steffanx> People still use winter?
2019-08-21T20:20:46 < Steffanx> Winrar. Lol
2019-08-21T20:20:54  * Mangy_Dog shrugs
2019-08-21T20:21:06 < mawk> I repacked it for you https://serveur.io/OpenOCD-20190715-0.10.0.zip
2019-08-21T20:21:10 < mawk> ah you have winrar, go ahead
2019-08-21T20:21:15 < Mangy_Dog> you didnt need to repack it
2019-08-21T20:21:15 < Steffanx> Why dont you use truestudio? You use eclipse anyway.
2019-08-21T20:21:27 < Steffanx> Truestudio gives the the whole package
2019-08-21T20:21:29 < Mangy_Dog> truestudio?
2019-08-21T20:21:29 < mawk> or stm32cubeIDE
2019-08-21T20:21:31 < mawk> since they bought it
2019-08-21T20:21:33 < Steffanx> Or that
2019-08-21T20:21:35 < Steffanx> Yeah
2019-08-21T20:21:39 < Steffanx> Fuck the rename
2019-08-21T20:21:48 < Mangy_Dog> well i actually use sloeber
2019-08-21T20:21:50 < Steffanx> + adding more crap
2019-08-21T20:21:59 < Mangy_Dog> only because its the only one i found that actually worked
2019-08-21T20:22:07 < Mangy_Dog> even if it is a little buggy
2019-08-21T20:22:13 < mawk> cubeIDE works fine
2019-08-21T20:22:20 < mawk> or emacs + gcc works fine too
2019-08-21T20:22:31 < Mangy_Dog> but it for the most part intergrated right into the stm32duino tools
2019-08-21T20:24:26 < Mangy_Dog> im assuming trurstudio can attach itself to libmaple cores?
2019-08-21T20:24:30 < Mangy_Dog> like stm32duino?
2019-08-21T20:24:35 < Mangy_Dog> rogers or steves core
2019-08-21T20:25:21 < mawk> dunno what this core thing is, truestudio will use gdb to attach to anything running on the stm32
2019-08-21T20:25:33 < Mangy_Dog> so no it wont
2019-08-21T20:25:36 < mawk> ?
2019-08-21T20:25:37 < Mangy_Dog> its its own core
2019-08-21T20:25:39 < mawk> why ?
2019-08-21T20:25:46 < mawk> gdb doesn't care what is running
2019-08-21T20:26:03 < Mangy_Dog> but if it doesnt know what base core to build from
2019-08-21T20:26:11 < mawk> gdb isn't for building
2019-08-21T20:26:25 < Mangy_Dog> no i mean the ide and system in trustudio
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2019-08-21T20:28:24 < Steffanx> I've no clue what it is. But if you can link it, it will work
2019-08-21T20:28:34 < Steffanx> Assuming t
2019-08-21T20:28:40 < Steffanx> It's all lib stuff
2019-08-21T20:28:52 < Mangy_Dog> no
2019-08-21T20:29:07 < Mangy_Dog> its the whole subsystem to build off so its like programming arduino
2019-08-21T20:29:08 < Mangy_Dog> not hal
2019-08-21T20:29:25 < Mangy_Dog> its an entire interperatation layer
2019-08-21T20:29:42 < mawk> it's a lib
2019-08-21T20:30:01 < mawk> and some other things
2019-08-21T20:30:05 < mawk> linker scripts, whatever
2019-08-21T20:32:30 < Mangy_Dog> so no it wont work
2019-08-21T20:35:02 < mawk> do you have a link for your core
2019-08-21T20:35:16 < Mangy_Dog> online link?
2019-08-21T20:36:22 < mawk> for the rogers core you're talking about
2019-08-21T20:36:29 < Mangy_Dog> its on his github
2019-08-21T20:36:36 < Mangy_Dog> the main stm32duino url is down at the moment
2019-08-21T20:37:15 < mawk> https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32
2019-08-21T20:37:17 < mawk> this ?
2019-08-21T20:37:20 < mawk> it's just a lib
2019-08-21T20:37:23 < Mangy_Dog> https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/Arduino_STM32
2019-08-21T20:37:37 < Mangy_Dog> no thats STMs version
2019-08-21T20:37:47 < mawk> you have a stm32 too
2019-08-21T20:37:52 < mawk> but whatever it's the same kind of thing
2019-08-21T20:39:06 < mawk> just a lib
2019-08-21T20:39:13 < mawk> gdb can attach to it
2019-08-21T20:39:28 < mawk> it's not an interpreter or whatever, which would be very unlikely on something embedded anything
2019-08-21T20:40:48 < Mangy_Dog> how exsacly is this even going thelp me right now tbh... Im not really prepaired to move my dev over to another ide and spend liturally days getting it to play nice
2019-08-21T20:40:56 < mawk> just use your current one
2019-08-21T20:41:01 < mawk> it has debugging capabilities most likely
2019-08-21T20:41:07 < mawk> direct it to the gdb remote port spawned by openocd
2019-08-21T20:41:17 < Mangy_Dog> the what?
2019-08-21T20:41:19 < Mangy_Dog> how?
2019-08-21T20:41:26 < mawk> I don't know what your IDE is
2019-08-21T20:41:32 < mawk> but it has debugging capabilities
2019-08-21T20:41:32 < Mangy_Dog> eclipse based, sloeber
2019-08-21T20:41:35 < mawk> or it's not a real IDE
2019-08-21T20:41:35 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: 1. get debugger working  2. press "pause" or ctrl-c when it is hung  3. debugger shows where it is stopped, and the comments may directly tell the reason if it is some freertos assert
2019-08-21T20:41:54 < mawk> in the IDE parameters you can use a remote GDB, it will ask for an ip and a port
2019-08-21T20:41:58 < mawk> you give what openocd said
2019-08-21T20:42:01 < mawk> and that's it you can debug
2019-08-21T20:42:11 < Mangy_Dog> but openocd doesnt even open
2019-08-21T20:42:25 < Mangy_Dog> its a command line window that flashed up and then closes
2019-08-21T20:42:33 < jpa-> start it from command prompt
2019-08-21T20:43:30 < jpa-> and give it   -f interface/stlink-v2.cfg -f target/stm32f4x.cfg   or whatever you use
2019-08-21T20:44:50 < Mangy_Dog> your calling a .cfg file that doesnt exsist
2019-08-21T20:45:58 < Mangy_Dog> programs got to listening on port 3333 for gdb connections
2019-08-21T20:48:19 < Mangy_Dog> also doesnt apepar to be any debug options in slober/eclipse
2019-08-21T20:48:31 < Mangy_Dog> im sure normal eclipse might have it
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2019-08-21T20:55:40 < Mangy_Dog> its more than likely a bug in freertos900 built for maple mini.... And thats a level of programming ireally dont know.
2019-08-21T20:56:38 < jpa-> more likely just to be bug in your own code
2019-08-21T20:56:51 < Mangy_Dog> i cant see how
2019-08-21T20:57:02 < Mangy_Dog> not sayiung my codes amazing
2019-08-21T20:57:06 < Mangy_Dog> it really isnt
2019-08-21T20:57:21 < Mangy_Dog> But the use of the suspend call is just how the example says
2019-08-21T20:58:38 < Mangy_Dog> the task where teh call is coming from is hidUPDATE. suspending battTASK.... a seporate unconnected task.
2019-08-21T20:58:52 < Mangy_Dog> so its not like im accidently suspending the task im in
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2019-08-21T21:01:33 < qyx> whats hidUPDATE?
2019-08-21T21:01:53 < jpa-> i guess your paste expired or something
2019-08-21T21:02:44 < Mangy_Dog> seems hastebins gond down
2019-08-21T21:03:01 < Mangy_Dog> by all means
2019-08-21T21:03:01 < Mangy_Dog> https://pastebin.com/zJpwcL3a
2019-08-21T21:03:07 < Mangy_Dog> look at teh entire program if you like
2019-08-21T21:03:10 < Mangy_Dog> its not tidy
2019-08-21T21:03:18 < Mangy_Dog> and ill need to do some renaming of things
2019-08-21T21:03:23 < Mangy_Dog> but its all there
2019-08-21T21:03:48 < Mangy_Dog> the paste i did earlier was just a stripped down version to highlight the main parts to save you from getting lost in teh mess
2019-08-21T21:03:51 < jpa-> TaskHandle_t xbattTask;  vTaskSuspend(&xbattTask);   void vTaskSuspend( TaskHandle_t xTaskToSuspend );
2019-08-21T21:03:57 < jpa-> uh? don't you get a compiler warning there?
2019-08-21T21:04:08 < jpa-> aren't you passing a pointer to wrong type to vTaskSuspend
2019-08-21T21:04:36 < Mangy_Dog> nope
2019-08-21T21:04:39 < qyx> sure?
2019-08-21T21:04:44 < Mangy_Dog> no error i mean
2019-08-21T21:04:48 < jpa-> warning
2019-08-21T21:04:53 < Mangy_Dog> warning
2019-08-21T21:04:57 < jpa-> it's not error in c, but you should enable all warnings (-Wall -Wextra)
2019-08-21T21:05:14 < mawk> and -pedantic for real pros
2019-08-21T21:05:25 < Mangy_Dog> well only have verbose mode in arduino ide
2019-08-21T21:06:12 < jpa-> doesn't sound like a real pro
2019-08-21T21:06:18 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: but anyway, lose the &
2019-08-21T21:06:38 < Mangy_Dog> which one?
2019-08-21T21:06:43 < jpa-> i guess we'll see you here often, considering 1) you don't have compiler warnings working and 2) you don't have debugger working
2019-08-21T21:06:49 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: the only one
2019-08-21T21:08:02 < Mangy_Dog> in teh vtask suspend call?
2019-08-21T21:08:06 < jpa-> yes
2019-08-21T21:08:06 < Mangy_Dog> or in the task declirations?
2019-08-21T21:08:09 < jpa-> no
2019-08-21T21:08:14 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2019-08-21T21:08:31 < jpa-> you do understand how pointers work and what & means, right?
2019-08-21T21:08:34 < qyx> btw tbh the freertos style confuses me too
2019-08-21T21:08:41 < qyx> why the hell are they typedefing a pointer
2019-08-21T21:08:49 < qyx> or idk
2019-08-21T21:08:52 < qyx> I don't remember
2019-08-21T21:09:33 < Mangy_Dog> tbh ive always found pointers confusing and i was just following the freertos guide on how to use suspend
2019-08-21T21:10:01 < Mangy_Dog> well suspend no longer hangs at least
2019-08-21T21:10:05 < Mangy_Dog> resume however isnt working
2019-08-21T21:10:29 < jpa-> ah yeah, TaskHandle_t is void*, that's why it gives no warning about wrong type
2019-08-21T21:11:00 < jpa-> would be better for FreeRTOS to make it   struct opaque *   instead
2019-08-21T21:11:31 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: .. did you remove & from resume?
2019-08-21T21:11:38 < Mangy_Dog> yue
2019-08-21T21:11:41 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2019-08-21T21:11:51 < jpa-> ok
2019-08-21T21:11:51 < Mangy_Dog> i assumed you meant it there to
2019-08-21T21:12:07 < jpa-> sure
2019-08-21T21:12:23 < Mangy_Dog> and yes i would love a line by line debugger
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2019-08-21T21:12:36 < Mangy_Dog> but tbh its been a pain without one
2019-08-21T21:12:46 < Mangy_Dog> which is why i use serial prints to find where the code is
2019-08-21T21:14:15 < rajkosto> why dont you have a line by line debugger
2019-08-21T21:14:21 < rajkosto> its very important
2019-08-21T21:14:26 < Mangy_Dog> no shit
2019-08-21T21:14:49 < Mangy_Dog> partly because untill right now i didnt know there are ways to get one
2019-08-21T21:15:26 < Mangy_Dog> though even knowing there might be a way the little googling ive done so far hasnt really shown how to imcorporate it into eclipse sloeber
2019-08-21T21:15:45 < Mangy_Dog> though i must admit ive been considdering visual studio code
2019-08-21T21:15:51 < Mangy_Dog> moving over to it
2019-08-21T21:16:05 < Mangy_Dog> but its a whole host of other new and fun issues to fix
2019-08-21T21:16:08 < rajkosto> eclipse works perfectly
2019-08-21T21:16:17 < rajkosto> use gnu mcc arm eclipse bundles/packages
2019-08-21T21:16:20 < Mangy_Dog> ive got this "mostly" working
2019-08-21T21:16:20 < rajkosto> their website says how to configure it all
2019-08-21T21:16:26 < Mangy_Dog> spend fucking ages getting it to this state
2019-08-21T21:16:29 < rajkosto> openocd or j-link
2019-08-21T21:16:34 < rajkosto> all automagically works
2019-08-21T21:16:40 < Mangy_Dog> it really doesnt
2019-08-21T21:16:43 < rajkosto> does for me
2019-08-21T21:16:49 < Mangy_Dog> theres NOTHING automated here
2019-08-21T21:17:03 < rajkosto> really ? https://gnu-mcu-eclipse.github.io/
2019-08-21T21:17:14 < Mangy_Dog> i cant eveb get eclipse to upload my project via stlink which is why im using arduino ide
2019-08-21T21:17:19 < rajkosto> https://gnu-mcu-eclipse.github.io/openocd/install/
2019-08-21T21:18:03 < qyx> what pro system are you using?
2019-08-21T21:18:04 < Mangy_Dog> yes thats another bundles eclipse pakage
2019-08-21T21:18:05 < rajkosto> you just need to point gnu mcu arm to the appropriate folders
2019-08-21T21:18:07 < Mangy_Dog> im using a different one
2019-08-21T21:18:23 < rajkosto> well youre using a shitty one then
2019-08-21T21:18:37 < qyx> it probably won't work on amiga or haiku os
2019-08-21T21:18:39 < Mangy_Dog> im using the one that just happens to work with the stm32duino core
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2019-08-21T21:29:32 < Steffanx> lol Mangy_Dog
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2019-08-21T21:37:52 < Mangy_Dog> :(
2019-08-21T21:38:49 < Mangy_Dog> ok new issue, i just realised my hid task is actually set to a lower priority than the others so i swapped the numbers round.... And the task just wouldnt start up at all now
2019-08-21T22:02:35 < mawk> yes you should be careful with priorities
2019-08-21T22:03:43 < Mangy_Dog> they shouldnt totally block tasks from running though
2019-08-21T22:04:04 < Mangy_Dog> just slow lower priroty tasks from completing
2019-08-21T22:04:27 < Steffanx> Then you should make sure the lower priority task get time to run
2019-08-21T22:04:42 < Mangy_Dog> eh the scehdular should do that
2019-08-21T22:05:42 < qyx> no
2019-08-21T22:06:01 < qyx> if there is any higher priprity task, it will be scheduled
2019-08-21T22:06:13 < Mangy_Dog> so this is what the vTaskDelay is for 
2019-08-21T22:06:18 < qyx> yes
2019-08-21T22:06:24 < Mangy_Dog> to not only time your tasks but to give time for other things to run?
2019-08-21T22:06:53 < qyx> or better, it is one of the possiblities which allow other tasks to run
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2019-08-21T22:07:19 < qyx> you may wait on a semapthore/mutex, event, something other
2019-08-21T22:07:26 < qyx> you may delay with vTaskDelay
2019-08-21T22:07:40 < Cracki> uh, you want a high prio task to NOT have all the time it wants?
2019-08-21T22:07:45 < Cracki> consider using yield
2019-08-21T22:08:04 < Cracki> and not doing any polling/spinning wait
2019-08-21T22:08:14 < Mangy_Dog> hmm ok
2019-08-21T22:08:24 < Mangy_Dog> anyway turning back on the dlay worked
2019-08-21T22:08:27 < Mangy_Dog> set it to 2ms
2019-08-21T22:08:39 < Mangy_Dog> which still gives me the 500 hz usb polling rate im aiming for
2019-08-21T22:08:46 < Cracki> what delay do you use
2019-08-21T22:08:52 < Mangy_Dog> vtaskdelay
2019-08-21T22:08:55 < Cracki> good
2019-08-21T22:09:05 < Cracki> that lets the scheduler know.
2019-08-21T22:09:20 < Mangy_Dog> i guessed normal delay would just be blocking
2019-08-21T22:09:35 < Cracki> indeed
2019-08-21T22:10:35 < Mangy_Dog> well i now kinda mostly have teh buttons setting the backlight brightness of my project working
2019-08-21T22:11:32 < Mangy_Dog> im kinda worried about the hid tbh, running the button state update seems very very very slow
2019-08-21T22:11:34 < Steffanx> but dont expect your ms to be exactly 2ms. it's at least 2 ms. 
2019-08-21T22:11:40 < Mangy_Dog> like mayeb 1 or 2 polls a second
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2019-08-21T22:11:57 < Mangy_Dog> im hoping thats just because theres no receiving hardware on at the moment
2019-08-21T22:12:09 < Mangy_Dog> oh yeah around 2ms is fine
2019-08-21T22:12:29 < Mangy_Dog> its like im aiming for 500hz polling rate IE in line with most game pads....
2019-08-21T22:12:36 < Mangy_Dog> but if i get 300 or 400 im happy
2019-08-21T22:12:36 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2019-08-21T22:12:49 < Mangy_Dog> 200 even should be fine
2019-08-21T22:13:01 < qyx> your multithreading experience is shallow
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2019-08-21T22:13:26 < Mangy_Dog> thanks
2019-08-21T22:13:31 < qyx> you are welcome
2019-08-21T22:13:36 < Mangy_Dog> so is your snide attempt of a insult
2019-08-21T22:13:40 < qyx> stm32 is always there to help
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2019-08-21T22:14:27 < Steffanx> nah, qyx wouldnt do that Mangy_Dog. it was just an observation.
2019-08-21T22:15:28 < Mangy_Dog> tbh its been at least a year or two since i last used rtos on stm32 used freertos before and chibi, though for arduino stuff ive been using a simple down and dirty schedular
2019-08-21T22:15:43 < Mangy_Dog> simple thing has priority and poll rates per task
2019-08-21T22:20:34 < Cracki> sounds cooperative
2019-08-21T22:23:17 < Mangy_Dog> i wouldnt say its an advanced thing
2019-08-21T22:23:43 < Mangy_Dog> but does the job for simple things
2019-08-21T22:24:34 < Mangy_Dog> i used it on my tricorder project
2019-08-21T22:25:16 < Mangy_Dog> which does a bunch of "simultanius" things like button handling led updating various serial perifables
2019-08-21T22:25:27 < Mangy_Dog> fuck my spelling sorry
2019-08-21T22:25:55 < Steffanx> no ty
2019-08-21T22:31:25 < Cracki> quick poll: you have a scope and the time division knob is two concentric ones (same axis), a wide flat one and a smaller one on top of it. which is the coarse one and which is the fine one?
2019-08-21T22:31:46 < mawk> fine is the one on top
2019-08-21T22:31:49 < Cracki> which way *should* it be, and why is the other way bad?
2019-08-21T22:32:55 < mawk> well intuitively the corse one is the absolute one, and the fine one is the relative one
2019-08-21T22:33:02 < mawk> so the coarse one is on bottom because it moves everything
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2019-08-21T22:50:42 < Cracki> muricans, explain yourselves! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECMgKHCXoAIXb4Y.jpg:orig https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECMgIcBXoAEbmP7.jpg:orig
2019-08-21T22:52:35 < Cracki> do you need a car to get from your parking space to the front entrance? https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/comments/ctffhq/montgomery_alabama/
2019-08-21T22:52:51 < machinehum> Is there a reason why all the file in fatfs come out in all caps
2019-08-21T22:52:56 < machinehum> files*
2019-08-21T22:52:59 < Cracki> old fat?
2019-08-21T22:53:07 < machinehum> o
2019-08-21T22:53:10 < machinehum> Maybe
2019-08-21T22:53:11 < Cracki> 8.3 format too?
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2019-08-21T22:53:47 < Cracki> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table#Types
2019-08-21T22:54:00 < mawk> because it's case insensitive machinehum 
2019-08-21T22:54:14 < Amun_Ra> names are stored all caps in 8.3 format (unless LFN is used)
2019-08-21T22:54:24 < mawk> so you store it all caps and display it like you want
2019-08-21T22:54:39 < Amun_Ra> FAT is case-insensitive after all
2019-08-21T22:54:39 < machinehum> fat32 is case insensitive?
2019-08-21T22:54:48 < Cracki> insensitivity can be done while maintaining case in general, but normalizing case might be part of the impl?
2019-08-21T22:54:55 < rajkosto> 8.3 is always all upper
2019-08-21T22:54:58 < Cracki> fat32 (and ntfs) are insensitive
2019-08-21T22:55:02 < Cracki> but fat32 maintains case
2019-08-21T22:55:03 < machinehum> oh
2019-08-21T22:55:05 < Cracki> and has more than 8.3
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2019-08-21T22:55:10 < Amun_Ra> only in LFN
2019-08-21T22:55:25 < Cracki> so whatever you have there must be less than fat32
2019-08-21T22:56:21 < Cracki> right, lfn
2019-08-21T22:58:07 < machinehum> gparted is telling me fat32
2019-08-21T22:58:40 < Cracki> what are you doing. if there's LFS data, gparted should have picked it up
2019-08-21T22:59:57 < machinehum> I suppose #define _USE_LFN should be set
2019-08-21T23:01:48 < Amun_Ra> it's usually turned off in embedded to save memory
2019-08-21T23:05:30 < machinehum> Ahh
2019-08-21T23:05:33 < machinehum> Thanks
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2019-08-21T23:32:58 < englishman> dongs, I upgraded the worksonmymachine server to one with guaranteed uptime and got a real tls cert, no more of this letsencrypt crap
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2019-08-21T23:43:37 < rajkosto> congradulations
2019-08-21T23:43:41 < rajkosto> now you have to manually renew it each year
2019-08-21T23:43:44 < rajkosto> instead of it being automatic
2019-08-21T23:43:58 -!- veegee [~veegee@ipagstaticip-3d3f7614-22f3-5b69-be13-7ab4b2c585d9.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: veegee]
--- Day changed Thu Aug 22 2019
2019-08-22T00:02:56 < benishor> not to mention moniez
2019-08-22T00:07:55 < Steffanx> Letsencrypt works just fine englishman ....
2019-08-22T00:08:50 < Steffanx> Or does a "real" certificate make you feel more pro
2019-08-22T00:09:44 < rajkosto> well for websites you dont really need more unless youre handling money and you want a company validated or EV cert
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2019-08-22T00:37:01 < englishman> the real certificate renews automatically the same as dongencrypt
2019-08-22T00:37:18 < englishman> and zero lunix commands need to be fucked with
2019-08-22T00:38:04 < Steffanx> Whokay
2019-08-22T00:39:04 < englishman> god damn fucking samtec fucking piece of shit company
2019-08-22T00:43:35 < salcedo> ATMAEEHHLL SAMMMM
2019-08-22T00:45:11 < englishman> fucksamtec.com $8.88/yr
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2019-08-22T00:46:34 < salcedo> Will you allow www.samtec.com to access your location?
2019-08-22T00:46:36 < salcedo> WHY
2019-08-22T00:48:54 < salcedo> i ddin't know that
2019-08-22T00:49:07 < salcedo> you need a "real" cert if you are doing ecommerce?
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2019-08-22T00:54:59 < bitmask> how bad of an idea is it to use a macroblock IC in a very small scale project
2019-08-22T00:55:11 < bitmask> anyone have problems with them?
2019-08-22T00:55:59 < rajkosto> whats a macroblock IC
2019-08-22T00:56:10 < rajkosto> a CPLD ?
2019-08-22T00:56:17 < bitmask> macroblock is a chinese company
2019-08-22T00:56:30 < bitmask> they make ICs for led drivers and probably other stuff
2019-08-22T00:57:32 < bitmask> cause an MBI5043 is $0.15 and a TI TLC5940 is $3.30 and thats a nice difference
2019-08-22T00:58:23 < bitmask> and the MBI is 16 bit pwm while the TI is 12 bit, not that that is really important
2019-08-22T00:58:32 < rajkosto> use it why not
2019-08-22T00:58:42 < rajkosto> if its got a readable datasheet
2019-08-22T00:59:09 < bitmask> yup
2019-08-22T00:59:29 < Cracki> >olympian led
2019-08-22T00:59:52 < bitmask> yea thats where im at :)
2019-08-22T01:00:07 < Cracki> constant current, nice
2019-08-22T01:00:18 < bitmask> its a very nice sounding chip
2019-08-22T01:00:22 < bitmask> unless I'm missing something
2019-08-22T01:01:06 < Cracki> the "scrambling" sounds useful too
2019-08-22T01:01:09 < bitmask> the TLC5947 is nice because its 24 channel (I need a lot of channels)
2019-08-22T01:01:09 < bitmask> but thats even more expensive
2019-08-22T01:02:53 < Cracki> what do you do the schematic and layouting with? eagle or kicad or something usable? :P
2019-08-22T01:03:38 < bitmask> who me? I'm a noob, but I've been using altium
2019-08-22T01:03:45 < Cracki> just polling people for what they use for casual projects
2019-08-22T01:03:48 < Cracki> ah good
2019-08-22T01:03:57 < bitmask> ive only done 3 boards before, all very basic
2019-08-22T01:04:30 < Cracki> anything to gripe about that *someone* at altium deserves a beating for?
2019-08-22T01:05:05 < Cracki> or a fart in their general direction
2019-08-22T01:05:14 < bitmask> cant say without first thinking im just doing it wrong
2019-08-22T01:05:24 < bitmask> not enough experience to answer that
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2019-08-22T01:05:43 < Cracki> be like principal skinner. *they* are doing it wrong.
2019-08-22T01:06:03 < Cracki> if it feels wrong, it might be.
2019-08-22T01:06:15 < bitmask> cant think of anything off the top of my head anyway
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2019-08-22T01:06:49 < jadew> letsencrypt is fine for almost everything
2019-08-22T01:07:19 < jadew> for everything else, that actually needs a proper certificate, there very few CAs are good enough
2019-08-22T01:07:34 < jadew> if you need a certificate to be signed, then godaddy or whatever CA is going to mean jack
2019-08-22T01:08:20 < Cracki> something I find wrong (altium, but others too) is how during schematic capture there is no concept of "generic capacitor, this value, this tolerance". rather you are asked to place a specific part of a specific maker, and *maybe* the software brings a library of components by "generic company"...
2019-08-22T01:08:26 < jadew> because they don't really verify your ownership of the business/domain, which is what a signed certificate should actually mean
2019-08-22T01:08:27 < bitmask> oh shit, macroblock has 48 channel drivers?
2019-08-22T01:08:28 < bitmask> hmm
2019-08-22T01:08:31 < bitmask> need more research
2019-08-22T01:08:47 < Cracki> much leg very blinding
2019-08-22T01:08:57 < jadew> Cracki, you can have that in kicad
2019-08-22T01:09:11 < Cracki> *cries* but kicad is awful in other ways
2019-08-22T01:09:14 < jadew> in fact, all capacitors and resistors are generic and the PN is optional
2019-08-22T01:09:33 < jadew> I think this is how it should be
2019-08-22T01:09:44 < Cracki> good good
2019-08-22T01:09:55 < jadew> normally you want ANY 0603 resistor and if it has special requirements you add them
2019-08-22T01:10:02 < jadew> *, you add them
2019-08-22T01:10:05 < Cracki> exactly
2019-08-22T01:11:12 < jadew> once you accepted the shortcomings in kicad, it becomes a very nice tool
2019-08-22T01:11:39 < jadew> my biggest gripes with it is the lack of RF design support (not sure if altium is any better)
2019-08-22T01:11:50 < Cracki> I'm most familiar with eagle, where you place packages, which don't appear to comprise standard/specific footprint, generic/specific symbol, maybe 3d model, ... but feel like duplication
2019-08-22T01:11:51 < jadew> and the lack of colored nets (but I'm sure that's going to change)
2019-08-22T01:12:19 < jadew> in kicad schematic symbols may or may not have a footprint attached to them
2019-08-22T01:12:32 < jadew> for example, a resistor doesn't have a footprint (you attach it later)
2019-08-22T01:12:44 < jadew> but if you choose some IC, it will probably have a footprint already associated
2019-08-22T01:12:47 < Cracki> hmhmhm
2019-08-22T01:13:17 < Cracki> right! during schematic capture, I don't care about the footprint, only about the function
2019-08-22T01:13:31 < Cracki> that's what tripped me up when I touched altium once
2019-08-22T01:13:40 < Cracki> maybe I didn't touch it right? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-08-22T01:14:26 < bitmask> can anyone tell me what the time multiplexing and scan are for this? 
2019-08-22T01:14:27 < bitmask> https://www.mblock.com.tw/en/Driver_ICs/LED_Driver_ICsdetail/1/MBI5353?Open=46
2019-08-22T01:14:27 < Cracki> felt like they get percentages from manufacturers for listing their parts
2019-08-22T01:14:50 < bitmask> does it have to be used in a certain way?
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2019-08-22T01:15:19 < jadew> Cracki, they might
2019-08-22T01:15:23 < Cracki> what do you see? I don't see "scan" mentioned on that page
2019-08-22T01:15:32 < Cracki> ah there
2019-08-22T01:15:48 < Cracki> why the fuck does that page load so slowly? did soviet china cut their undersea cable?
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2019-08-22T01:16:18 < Cracki> bitmask, sounds like "animation"
2019-08-22T01:16:53 < bitmask> hmm
2019-08-22T01:16:55 < Cracki> it has "multiplexing", paragraph deosn't detail that
2019-08-22T01:17:13 < Cracki> sounds like it buffers all data, then fans segments of that out to slaved drivers?
2019-08-22T01:17:42 < bitmask> maybe I should just stick with the 16 channel one
2019-08-22T01:19:47 < bitmask> although with these 48 channel ones id only need 6 ICs instead of 18 :P
2019-08-22T01:19:55 < bitmask> I may need to rethink this
2019-08-22T01:20:24 < Cracki> i grepped the shiet a little, still don't know what exactly they mean by "scan"
2019-08-22T01:22:31 < bitmask> I think it has enough sram to hold 32 scans of data, so like 32 frames maybe?
2019-08-22T01:26:56 < bitmask> seems impressive for $0.90
2019-08-22T01:27:09 < bitmask> I wonder if I can solder them
2019-08-22T01:30:26 < bitmask> I may need to get into fpga
2019-08-22T01:32:14 < karlp> bah humbug, couldn't figure out why trace wasn't working.  checkked the schematic of this 4 year old desing.. trace isn't connected :)
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2019-08-22T02:18:59 < Cracki> anyone here know of a kind of banana plug or other radially springy thingy (not pogo pins) that can plug into typical plated through holes, such as for (unpopulated) 0.1" pin headers?
2019-08-22T02:24:49 < banana> no
2019-08-22T02:25:06 < banana> maybe
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2019-08-22T02:29:45 < Cracki> the cheap jumper wires I have look like they're made from *folded* sheet metal, so the pin "loop" may be bent open a little...
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2019-08-22T02:36:21 < karlp> there's a variet of press fit connectors available, aandrew had some for production use, some of them aren't even intended for dev use, but for permanent use
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2019-08-22T03:24:11 < dongs> zyp: what color led
2019-08-22T03:32:03 < Laurenceb> muh leds
2019-08-22T03:41:57 < karlp> bah, freertos stops scheduling when the first usb control req comes in.
2019-08-22T03:42:05 < karlp> I love unexpected problems
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2019-08-22T04:56:40 < jadew> sup?
2019-08-22T05:00:32 < Cracki> *yawn*
2019-08-22T05:01:34 < jadew> I woke up at 6 pm
2019-08-22T05:01:45 < Cracki> local faplab needs a generic mail address I can throw 3d print files at. they still expect you to make an appointment, or send it to individual student workers.
2019-08-22T05:01:47 < jadew> I'm good for a couple more hours
2019-08-22T05:02:03 < Cracki> he charged me 3 euros today for ~7 grams of plastic
2019-08-22T05:02:33 < jadew> Cracki, I feel like we already had this discussion, but don't you have a printer?
2019-08-22T05:02:33 < Cracki> I think they hiked their rates
2019-08-22T05:02:38 < Cracki> nah
2019-08-22T05:02:45 < jadew> why not?
2019-08-22T05:03:14 < jadew> everyone has a printer these days
2019-08-22T05:03:16 < Cracki> no space, no need really, no money :>
2019-08-22T05:03:28 < jadew> all good points I guess :)
2019-08-22T05:03:54 < Cracki> I'd get one if I had the space and the money to burn
2019-08-22T05:03:58 < jadew> I still don't have the space, but I sacrifice
2019-08-22T05:04:15 < jadew> my wife got mine, otherwise I wouldn't have spent the money on it either
2019-08-22T05:04:39 < Cracki> I sacrificed some monopoly money for shelves a while ago. that only made the mess a little more orderly, but not less of a mess :S
2019-08-22T05:04:46 < Cracki> haha
2019-08-22T05:04:53 < Cracki> wife gets own 3d printer, that's nice
2019-08-22T05:05:03 < jadew> no, she got it for me
2019-08-22T05:05:08 < Cracki> ah!
2019-08-22T05:05:18 < jadew> she's nice like that
2019-08-22T05:05:23 < Cracki> blessed
2019-08-22T05:06:09 < jadew> my experience with shelves is that they made things more organized, but it didn't result in more space
2019-08-22T05:06:39 < jadew> actually, I ended up with less
2019-08-22T05:06:42 < Cracki> printing that for one of these stm32F3 boards. get two, they (are meant to) interlock and you can throw it in a bag https://gist.github.com/crackwitz/6b45b2e52e57a1bb5fb12486fe709816
2019-08-22T05:06:44 < jadew> but a lot more bench space
2019-08-22T05:07:21 < Cracki> yeah I got three shelves that are made of halves, so I can eventually take one and put each half of it on the other two
2019-08-22T05:07:39 < Cracki> might require making some sheet metal widgets to get them stacking
2019-08-22T05:08:14 < Cracki> bench space!
2019-08-22T05:08:36 < jadew> did you eventually get that printed?
2019-08-22T05:08:38 < Cracki> I wanted half of one of them to be a little workbench away from the desk, closer to daylight... got too much shit for that
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2019-08-22T05:08:52 < jadew> yeah, that's why I built the shelves
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2019-08-22T05:09:02 < Cracki> I got the previous revision printed. this one has a few tweaks and tomorrow I'll ask the guy to print it
2019-08-22T05:09:29 < jadew> but ironically, the biggest bench is permanently occupied by the 3d printer and a "paused" project of mine, from 2 years ago
2019-08-22T05:09:41 < Cracki> hah
2019-08-22T05:10:17 < jadew> I should resume that one, but it was a rabbit hole
2019-08-22T05:10:32 < jadew> I ended up making a logic analyzer for it
2019-08-22T05:10:45 < Cracki> I'll make boss a little widget made of plexiglass that holds a cheap brushed dc servo motor. maybe that'll have some value as a show-and-tell for customers.
2019-08-22T05:10:58 < jadew> and decided to make it really nice, but ended up doing other stuff instead
2019-08-22T05:11:00 < Cracki> a logic analyzer for rabbit holes?
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2019-08-22T05:11:21 < Cracki> there are books written about the logic of rabbit holes
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2019-08-22T05:11:47 < jadew> yeah, I needed something with 40+ channels
2019-08-22T05:12:09 < Cracki> !
2019-08-22T05:12:19 < jadew> so I improvised a LA
2019-08-22T05:12:35 < jadew> but the FPGA I had didn't have on board SDRAM controller, so I had to write one
2019-08-22T05:12:41 < Cracki> fx2 + shit registers?
2019-08-22T05:12:44 < Cracki> ic
2019-08-22T05:12:58 < jadew> then I wanted to simulate some stuff and ended up spending a lot more time on that
2019-08-22T05:13:02 < jadew> see where I'm going with this? :)
2019-08-22T05:13:04 < jadew> rabbit hole
2019-08-22T05:13:16 < Cracki> yeah
2019-08-22T05:13:32 < jadew> I decided to get back on it soon, because I want that space back
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2019-08-22T05:17:12 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone had luck with using cheap 2 layer board and getting a decent RF performance from LoRa module? Is there an app note you would recommend?
2019-08-22T05:18:38 < dongs> just look at chink shit they're all 2Layer
2019-08-22T05:18:43 < dongs> literally copypastes of reference design
2019-08-22T05:18:47 < dongs> the uh...
2019-08-22T05:19:01 < jadew> is LoRa strictly sub GHz?
2019-08-22T05:19:41 < dongs> https://www.loriot.io/img/modems/iM880A.png i mean do ytou think this is 4 layer lol
2019-08-22T05:19:45 < jadew> because if it is, it's not that difficult to get good performance out of FR-4
2019-08-22T05:19:48 < dongs> shit screams "chinesium"
2019-08-22T05:19:50 < Cracki> higher freq <> propagation?
2019-08-22T05:20:00 < dongs> jadew: i think its 950mhz or someshit
2019-08-22T05:20:16 < dongs> https://www.loriot.io/img/modems/rfm95w.png
2019-08-22T05:20:23 < dongs> hoperf is DEFINITELY 2L
2019-08-22T05:20:25 < jadew> dongs, wiki says 433 in the EU and 915 in the US
2019-08-22T05:20:35 < Cracki> 433 too, depends on where you get what for free
2019-08-22T05:21:05 < Cracki> could probably run on 2.4 ghz too if that weren't so crapped up and short range
2019-08-22T05:21:31 < englishman> lora is <1g ie layout doesnt matter
2019-08-22T05:22:22 < jadew> it matters a little but the wavelength at 915 MHz is ~20cm in FR-4
2019-08-22T05:22:40 < jadew> so if you keep your RF traces way below that, you'll be fine
2019-08-22T05:23:24 < Cracki> https://www.semtech.com/products/wireless-rf/24-ghz-transceivers/sx1280
2019-08-22T05:24:22 < Cracki> https://www.wireless-solutions.de/news/208-lora-im282a-high-range-with-lora%C2%AE-on-worldwide-2-4%20ghz-band,-11-2018.html
2019-08-22T05:27:50 < jadew> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/when-your-wife-does-not-support-your-home-lab/
2019-08-22T05:28:16 < Cracki> >I'll throw them away one day!
2019-08-22T05:28:21 < Cracki> yeah divorce
2019-08-22T05:28:32 < jadew> "Man, I work on STM32 and IMU. They ain't even close to things that are taught in high schools."
2019-08-22T05:29:02 < jadew> it's hilarious
2019-08-22T05:30:34 < Cracki> first girl avatar says >I always removed that kind of people out of my life, don't need that negativity.
2019-08-22T05:30:47 < dongs> sjw wankers
2019-08-22T05:32:18 < Cracki> maybe she needs an early bedtime with no dinner to think about her behavior
2019-08-22T05:33:41 < jadew> I think that's the second topic like that that I ran into
2019-08-22T05:34:05 < Cracki> hook her up to the scope with some crocodile clamps
2019-08-22T05:34:09 < jadew> the other one was about space
2019-08-22T05:37:37 < Cracki> women and space. elon musk must have insights.
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2019-08-22T05:49:07 < jadew> Cracki, this guy found space for a 3d printer: https://i.imgur.com/Qjn4Rc7.jpg
2019-08-22T05:50:05 < Cracki> I could junk my old display with the dying backlight
2019-08-22T05:51:05 < Cracki> one of the dudes at the fablab wanted to sell me his old 3d printer for 150 bucks. I think not. who knows how much he raepd it or how he butchered it in other unspeakbable ways.
2019-08-22T05:52:05 < jadew> what 3d printer was that?
2019-08-22T05:53:55 < Cracki> no clue
2019-08-22T05:54:04 < Cracki> something selfbuilt iirc
2019-08-22T05:54:22 < Cracki> so either a proper kit or something ghetto
2019-08-22T05:55:00 < Cracki> and he doesn't strike me as the type who can "ghetto" up stuff and not have it be ghetto
2019-08-22T05:56:36 < Cracki> apropos ghetto, my additional wtf2812b are here, so I'll soon have backlit blinking lemonade bottles
2019-08-22T05:57:28 < jadew> I like that thread with the labs, you can get a lot of inspiration from there
2019-08-22T05:57:46 < jadew> and I like looking at other people's stuff
2019-08-22T05:58:00 < Cracki> :)
2019-08-22T05:58:36 < jadew> oh, I didn't link to the forum thread
2019-08-22T05:58:59 < jadew> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/whats-your-work-benchlab-look-like-post-some-pictures-of-your-lab/
2019-08-22T06:00:57 < Cracki> >carload of inverter grade 'lytics
2019-08-22T06:01:21 < Cracki> *wife's head splits, salty vapor vents*
2019-08-22T06:02:29 < Cracki> love the tidy walls of boxes
2019-08-22T06:02:32 < jadew> having just finished cleaning up from what I assume to have been a filter cap, I can only imagine what it would be life if one of those blew up
2019-08-22T06:02:51 < jadew> Cracki, small boxes?
2019-08-22T06:03:01 < Cracki> small and mediums
2019-08-22T06:03:08 < Cracki> needs good labeling of course
2019-08-22T06:03:25 < jadew> yeah, not sure how good of a system that is
2019-08-22T06:03:36 < jadew> what do you do when you have one of something?
2019-08-22T06:03:52 < Cracki> I like those bowl things because you can take them with you to the desk
2019-08-22T06:04:03 < Cracki> you have one? "catchall box"
2019-08-22T06:04:52 < Cracki> we had this talk a few times before. some leave the uniques in whatever project box (and take note), others sort it somewhere (alphabetically? archaeologically?)
2019-08-22T06:04:53 < jadew> not the bowl type, I don't keep my stuff that well sorted
2019-08-22T06:05:18 < Cracki> in german I'd call them Wanne, "bath tub"
2019-08-22T06:05:20 < jadew> yeah, I'm the type that leaves them in the project box
2019-08-22T06:05:26 < Cracki> small or large, they're tubs, kinda
2019-08-22T06:05:49 < jadew> and I have component boxes for some type of components, where they're just thrown in
2019-08-22T06:06:24 < Cracki> my meager collection of smd R/Cs is in the bubble envelope they came in
2019-08-22T06:06:38 < jadew> http://86.127.196.108/stuff/resistor_storage.jpg
2019-08-22T06:07:05 < Cracki> yeh that looks like what I do for pnp jobs
2019-08-22T06:07:16 < Cracki> sorted by value ofc
2019-08-22T06:07:25 < jadew> yeah, same here, resistors under 1k
2019-08-22T06:07:49 < Cracki> almost like vinyl records
2019-08-22T06:07:52 < jadew> but I have other boxes where things are not sorted at all
2019-08-22T06:09:44 < jadew> I think I saw all those labs in that thread and I realized something
2019-08-22T06:09:58 < jadew> most of them have no work space
2019-08-22T06:10:15 < jadew> maybe not most, but many
2019-08-22T06:10:15 < Cracki> define work space
2019-08-22T06:10:25 < Cracki> I see enough bench space, but most look cramped
2019-08-22T06:10:26 < jadew> space where you can work
2019-08-22T06:10:51 < jadew> this one is great for example: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ezGXQxSjha4/TrET9xpdxuI/AAAAAAAAF9Y/OhW6j8ZsbTE/s800/IMG_20111102_205642.jpg
2019-08-22T06:11:15 < jadew> this one looks cool, but very little space for anything: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/whats-your-work-benchlab-look-like-post-some-pictures-of-your-lab/?action=dlattach;attach=803184;image
2019-08-22T06:11:40 < Cracki> for pnp jobs I'd get a baker's rack and lots of baking sheets or equivalent, to keep and ferry the boards between stations (pnp<>inspection)
2019-08-22T06:12:00 < Cracki> oh yes that has no space for anything
2019-08-22T06:12:06 < Cracki> maybe he has more space off to the side?
2019-08-22T06:12:21 < Cracki> lotsa gear, might be a hoarder, or it's all for ham radio
2019-08-22T06:12:22 < jadew> if he does, he didn't post that picture
2019-08-22T06:12:38 < jadew> that's not ham radio stuff, but you never know
2019-08-22T06:13:23 < Cracki> maybe he has a soldering monkey who does the grunt work, and he just characterizes the result
2019-08-22T06:15:48 < jadew> anyway, I know now how deep a bench has to be
2019-08-22T06:16:52 < jadew> if you don't have any old equipment, about 80 cm, if you do, 120 cm
2019-08-22T06:17:50 < jadew> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/whats-your-work-benchlab-look-like-post-some-pictures-of-your-lab/?action=dlattach;attach=20998;image
2019-08-22T06:18:07 < jadew> this guy can only work on one project at a time
2019-08-22T06:23:17 < Cracki> kek
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2019-08-22T06:23:38 < Cracki> my desk is 80 deep and that's good enough for the display, keyboard, and then some space to fuck around on
2019-08-22T06:24:05 < Cracki> I found it a good idea to keep rubbing alcohol around to clean the solder/flux spatters
2019-08-22T06:24:44 < Cracki> looks like he bought a bunch of gear and stashed it in his little attic mancave
2019-08-22T06:25:53 < jadew> I keep rubbing alcohol around too
2019-08-22T06:26:04 < jadew> it's all I use for cleaning around, because it evaporates quickly
2019-08-22T06:26:14 < jadew> today I went through an entire bottle, because of the power supply incident
2019-08-22T06:26:28 < jadew> and I'm not even done
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2019-08-22T06:29:25 < mawk> my desk is like 1m²
2019-08-22T06:29:32 < mawk> so I store things under it like the scope and the components
2019-08-22T06:29:51 < mawk> and my gf keeps complaining I step on her 1m²
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2019-08-22T06:35:13 < Cracki> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61E%2BVuqEzAL._SX466_.jpg
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2019-08-22T07:08:52 < specing> mawk: you have a gf taking up space?
2019-08-22T07:09:04 < specing> store her under your desk
2019-08-22T07:12:51 < mawk> lol
2019-08-22T07:22:08 < jadew> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demos
2019-08-22T07:24:13 < jadew> https://youtu.be/yJDv-zdhzMY?t=97
2019-08-22T07:25:24 < Cracki> looks like a pocket table saw
2019-08-22T07:25:39 < Cracki> they had the tech 50 years ago
2019-08-22T07:25:55 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-22T07:31:56 < jadew> the guy died in 2013, so he at least had the chance to see what he helped create
2019-08-22T07:32:32 < jadew> given how much of a pioneer he was, he probably had access to the earliest of online porn too
2019-08-22T07:33:31 < jadew> if that demo was in '68, I assume by '69 they already had that
2019-08-22T07:34:14 < jadew> would have been kind of poetic too
2019-08-22T07:34:28 < jadew> '69 - the year of the first online porn video
2019-08-22T07:36:00 < salcedo> poor guy
2019-08-22T07:36:18 < jadew> why do you say that?
2019-08-22T07:37:06 < salcedo> if i was engelbart, i would have offed myself way before 2013
2019-08-22T07:40:33 < salcedo> he saw the potential problems with the direction we were headed after WWII and pioneered a solution.
2019-08-22T07:40:46 < salcedo> we took his ideas and fucked it all up
2019-08-22T07:51:16 < mawk> 60€/month for a /27 is it expensive ?
2019-08-22T07:51:22 < mawk> I know nothing about the IPv4 market
2019-08-22T07:51:57 < salcedo> me neither. why do you want ipv4 addresses?
2019-08-22T07:52:04 < mawk> I don't want them
2019-08-22T07:52:07 < mawk> I have 3 already, plenty enough
2019-08-22T07:52:13 < mawk> but I noticed my ISP is offering /27 blocks
2019-08-22T07:52:27 < salcedo> oh so you're renting them lelz
2019-08-22T07:52:44 < jadew> that's what, 32 addresses?
2019-08-22T07:52:59 < mawk> yes
2019-08-22T07:53:41 < salcedo> guaranteed this storm is gonna knock out power
2019-08-22T07:53:45 < jadew> I think google is giving IPs for their cloud stuff at something like 10c/month, but I'm not 100% sure
2019-08-22T07:53:52 < jadew> might have been $1?
2019-08-22T07:53:54 < mawk> full ips ?
2019-08-22T07:54:00 < mawk> I have them at 2€ individually otherwise
2019-08-22T07:54:00 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-22T07:54:03 < mawk> nice
2019-08-22T07:54:12 < mawk> well I'm pondering signing up for google gsuite
2019-08-22T07:54:16 < mawk> to use as mail relay
2019-08-22T07:54:24 < mawk> but 5€/month is expensive just for mail relay
2019-08-22T07:54:26 < jadew> give me a second to check, I haven't done anything with their services in several years
2019-08-22T07:54:43 < salcedo> why pay $5/mo to google for only a relay?
2019-08-22T07:54:47 < mawk> but anyway "big mail" is racketting people to pay for $40k/year Sender Verified™ program to get whitelisted by antispams
2019-08-22T07:54:55 < salcedo> there are plenty of services that offer much more for $5/mo and they don't do evil shit with your data.
2019-08-22T07:54:57 < mawk> I don't know how to get my mails get through
2019-08-22T07:55:06 < mawk> I found others, but around same price
2019-08-22T07:55:40 < mawk> I figured best way to get past gmail antispam is to be served by gmail
2019-08-22T07:55:40 < salcedo> yea the sender verified shit is retarded tho
2019-08-22T07:55:43 < jadew> mawk, scratch that, they're free now, but they're going to charge 2.88 as of next year
2019-08-22T07:55:59 < salcedo> was running my own email server for years without any problems
2019-08-22T07:56:17 < salcedo> and then google decides i'm spam
2019-08-22T07:56:20 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-22T07:56:21 < mawk> same thing
2019-08-22T07:56:37 < mawk> nothing changed for many years, then all of a sudden a simple link in the plaintext email gets me in spam
2019-08-22T07:56:49 < mawk> at least google is polite they tell me in the rejection message
2019-08-22T07:56:51 < salcedo> it's not just about money for google though
2019-08-22T07:56:55 < salcedo> they have an ideology behind it
2019-08-22T07:56:59 < mawk> hotmail says "250 OK :)" and the mail doesn't even show up in spam
2019-08-22T07:57:00 < jadew> are you guys running mailing lists?
2019-08-22T07:57:03 < salcedo> that's what pisses me off
2019-08-22T07:57:09 < mawk> I'm running a mail server for my own mail jadew 
2019-08-22T07:57:57 < salcedo> tutanota/protonmail ... i like the idea of them but dislike lack of imap
2019-08-22T07:58:05 < mawk> no imap in 2019
2019-08-22T07:58:06 < mawk> lol
2019-08-22T07:58:11 < jadew> you probably didn't set the dkim and spf thing
2019-08-22T07:58:16 < mawk> of course I did
2019-08-22T07:58:20 < salcedo> oh yea jadew we did :)
2019-08-22T07:58:24 < mawk> I have 10/10 on every "mail checker" website on the internet
2019-08-22T07:58:38 < jadew> do you change your IP address often?
2019-08-22T07:58:41 < salcedo> dkim, spf, reverse dns, dmarc, alllll the things.
2019-08-22T07:58:46 < mawk> dkim, spf, dmarc, rdns, fcrdns
2019-08-22T07:58:47 < salcedo> steady IP. good reputation.
2019-08-22T07:58:51 < jadew> do you have spikes in e-mail activity?
2019-08-22T07:58:58 < salcedo> no
2019-08-22T07:59:01 < mawk> unless I got hacked no, I don't send that many emails
2019-08-22T07:59:03 < mawk> I mainly receive
2019-08-22T07:59:18 < jadew> you're quick to dismiss the hacked thing :)
2019-08-22T07:59:21 < salcedo> it just comes down to 2 things: pay us money. and censorship.
2019-08-22T07:59:22 < mawk> lol
2019-08-22T07:59:29 < jadew> it happens more often than you think
2019-08-22T07:59:44 < salcedo> they don't have to hack you
2019-08-22T07:59:51 < salcedo> a spammer can blatently use your domain
2019-08-22T07:59:56 < mawk> I'd get abuse at my host jadew 
2019-08-22T07:59:58 < salcedo> and it will hit every spam filter on th eway
2019-08-22T08:00:02 < mawk> for the slightest disturbance from my ip
2019-08-22T08:00:16 < mawk> it happened once with a dns resolver I let open, next day server is cut with an abuse message
2019-08-22T08:00:27 < salcedo> they don't even have to touch your mail server. just use your domain in the MAIL FROM
2019-08-22T08:00:28 < jadew> salcedo, that's what the spf and dkim is for
2019-08-22T08:00:32 < mawk> yeah they want to discourage small email players to be able to own your mail I think
2019-08-22T08:00:38 < mawk> like, screen it, read it, monetize it, whatever
2019-08-22T08:00:49 < salcedo> jadew: spf and dkim don't mean shit when google and microsoft play by their own rules
2019-08-22T08:00:54 < mawk> maybe that's a bit far fetched, there aren't much people like me
2019-08-22T08:01:34 < mawk> anyway microsoft is way more aggressive with mail than google I find
2019-08-22T08:01:37 < salcedo> that's exactly what it is
2019-08-22T08:01:45 < salcedo> they want you on their platforms only
2019-08-22T08:02:15 < salcedo> google and mircosoft have been constantly going at it over various standards amendments
2019-08-22T08:02:36 < mawk> they love to throw standards up in the air, wait for adoption, then kill it
2019-08-22T08:02:44 < salcedo> yep
2019-08-22T08:02:54 < jadew> lol
2019-08-22T08:02:58 < mawk> HPKP, DNT
2019-08-22T08:03:00 < salcedo> because they want developers to give up so everyone switches to google shit
2019-08-22T08:03:09 < mawk> there are many others but that's the ones I remember now
2019-08-22T08:03:29 < jadew> why host your own email tho
2019-08-22T08:03:38 < jadew> there are plenty of free options
2019-08-22T08:03:55 < salcedo> name a free option that doesn't participate in surveillance capitalism
2019-08-22T08:03:58 < mawk> even with your own domain name jadew ?
2019-08-22T08:04:06 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-22T08:04:10 < mawk> well hosting my mail seemed easy
2019-08-22T08:04:13 < mawk> before the spam bs
2019-08-22T08:04:19 < mawk> and it was easy
2019-08-22T08:04:22 < jadew> I don't know if things have changed, but I'm using zoho mail successfully on a couple of domains
2019-08-22T08:04:36 < salcedo> is zoho a big player?
2019-08-22T08:04:44 < salcedo> if not, it will be under threat
2019-08-22T08:04:50 < jadew> seems to be now
2019-08-22T08:05:19 < salcedo> they might be big but can they afford the extortion payments to microsoft & google?
2019-08-22T08:05:25 < mawk> there is a free plan but not IMAP/POP3
2019-08-22T08:05:28 < mawk> just webmail
2019-08-22T08:05:37 < mawk> otherwise 1€, it's not that expensive
2019-08-22T08:05:42 < salcedo> lol yea that bothers me
2019-08-22T08:05:43 < mawk> or 4€ if you want them to keep your mail
2019-08-22T08:05:47 < salcedo> webmail only is not cool
2019-08-22T08:06:27 < mawk> but really setting up my own mail was easy jadew , if only everyone was fair play it would be the best option
2019-08-22T08:06:36 < mawk> dovecot, opendkim, postfix, that's it
2019-08-22T08:06:43 < mawk> just read some docs and plug things into things
2019-08-22T08:06:52 < mawk> put it in a container, backup it, and that's it
2019-08-22T08:06:54 < jadew> mawk, I have free imap
2019-08-22T08:07:04 < mawk> yeah you signed up when it was the case I guess
2019-08-22T08:07:08 < mawk> and they're nice they don't terminate your plan
2019-08-22T08:07:16 < jadew> probably
2019-08-22T08:07:25 < salcedo> you might want to start looking for a new host though
2019-08-22T08:07:44 < salcedo> they'll find a way to get rid of you
2019-08-22T08:07:51 < mawk> yeah like with phone operators
2019-08-22T08:08:08 < jadew> salcedo, there's always someone just like them
2019-08-22T08:08:16 < mawk> you sign a bargain contract, like before the web 2.0 where they sold unlimited data, then they very much regret it and do everything to get you off the contract
2019-08-22T08:08:17 < salcedo> jadew: not really rofl
2019-08-22T08:08:23 < mawk> they even offered money at some point to buy contract back from peoplke
2019-08-22T08:08:31 < mawk> the SFR operator in France
2019-08-22T08:08:44 < mawk> vodafone in other countries
2019-08-22T08:08:52 < salcedo> it's the same thing here
2019-08-22T08:09:08 < mawk> ah no not vodafone anymore, bought back by some israeli
2019-08-22T08:09:31 < salcedo> all countries copy cat eachother wrt to how they fuck consumers
2019-08-22T08:09:39 < salcedo> it's like a dick waving contest
2019-08-22T08:10:44 < salcedo> for the longest time we didn't have monthly data limits on cable
2019-08-22T08:11:49 < salcedo> they very quietly started adding them, then trying to get people to "upgrade" their service which was really a renegotiation of their contract in order to apply the limits to them
2019-08-22T08:13:12 < salcedo> if you read between the lines and decided to keep your existing plan/contract, the rates go up and up and up and up lol
2019-08-22T08:13:22 < salcedo> they price you into the contract terms they want.
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2019-08-22T08:22:53 < jadew> is there a place where you can rent altium by the day?
2019-08-22T08:24:36 < mawk> omg my server isp provide wrong rDNS now
2019-08-22T08:24:42 < mawk> like it's a spam-tier shit isp
2019-08-22T08:24:54 < mawk> the rDNS were cool when they worked
2019-08-22T08:24:59 < mawk> 62-210-11-216.rev.poneytelecom.eu
2019-08-22T08:25:09 < mawk> with an ascii art poney on the main domain
2019-08-22T08:31:22 < salcedo> AS12876 is back ;)
2019-08-22T08:31:31 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-22T08:31:49 < salcedo> hahah it's like some warez kids jacked the AS and the ISP has no clue
2019-08-22T08:32:41 < mawk> lol
2019-08-22T08:32:46 < mawk> they're the real ISP who did this
2019-08-22T08:32:50 < mawk> a bunch of nerds
2019-08-22T08:32:55 < mawk> it's some folks to Xavier Niel
2019-08-22T08:32:59 < mawk> you know him
2019-08-22T08:33:48 < salcedo> some oligarch in france?
2019-08-22T08:33:51 < salcedo> who controls telecom
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2019-08-22T08:34:11 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-22T08:34:13 < mawk> and newspapers
2019-08-22T08:34:17 < mawk> as they always do
2019-08-22T08:34:24 < mawk> all the major news are controlled by like 7 billionaires
2019-08-22T08:35:23 < salcedo> it's not like that in america. we're free :)
2019-08-22T08:36:23 < mawk> lol
2019-08-22T08:36:26 < salcedo> we have a gov for the people by the people. all of our news media are publicly owned and operated to ensure there is always facts based unbiased reporting! :)
2019-08-22T08:36:43 < mawk> even that would be dangerous
2019-08-22T08:36:46 < mawk> you need inbetween
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2019-08-22T11:51:40 < jly> now here's a bunch of cunts...
2019-08-22T11:51:43 < jly> o/
2019-08-22T11:53:32 < jly> yea
2019-08-22T11:55:57 < jly> ok
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2019-08-22T13:02:32 < Steffanx> Lol even jly cant handle your insanity Haohmaru . That says A LOT.
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2019-08-22T15:25:08 < rajkosto> why if you go east you eventually go west
2019-08-22T15:25:19 < salcedo> been waiting on jlcpcb for over 2 weeks now i think
2019-08-22T15:25:40 < salcedo> tracking says it's going through dhl ecommerce after sitting in customs for a week
2019-08-22T15:25:51 < rajkosto> if you go north you eventually go south, but if you go east you never end up going west, right ?
2019-08-22T15:35:32 < salcedo> heh
2019-08-22T15:35:53 < salcedo> jlcpcb uses angular and has almost the exact same code style as allpcb
2019-08-22T15:38:42 < salcedo> angularjs
2019-08-22T15:39:03 < salcedo> view source of jlcpcb.com and allpcb.com
2019-08-22T15:39:08 < salcedo> made by the same person? :)
2019-08-22T15:39:09 < Steffanx> Angular5
2019-08-22T15:44:12 < salcedo> indeed
2019-08-22T15:44:25 < salcedo> i do suspect that both sites were made by the same people
2019-08-22T15:44:42 < salcedo> maybe there is a deeper rabbithole and they're both LCSC
2019-08-22T15:46:11 < salcedo> no. don't take the red pill. it's made by the same pharma company that makes the blue pill. there is no difference.
2019-08-22T15:46:27 < salcedo> just jump in the hole unmedicated.
2019-08-22T15:53:05 < Steffanx> It's not just webdev. Its EVERYWHERE
2019-08-22T15:53:36 < Steffanx> Even the saleae logic tool went the fucking webdev on a desktop way
2019-08-22T15:54:26 < salcedo> my reflow oven went the webshit way too
2019-08-22T15:56:10 < salcedo> nah it's a little nicer than that rofl
2019-08-22T15:56:46 < salcedo> i have to make an equivalent serial interface too
2019-08-22T15:56:52 < salcedo> just because
2019-08-22T15:57:28 < salcedo> in the event (which will never happen) someone critiques my oven IRL and says "but it only has a web interface. that's terrible." i can be like "but nah bruh! there is a serial interface!"
2019-08-22T15:58:28 < salcedo> this reflow oven turned out to be an overengineered shitfest "portfolio project" that will never be looked at by any employer as long as i live.
2019-08-22T15:59:04 < salcedo> they'll be like "i donno what this is but applicant has felony convictions. fuck him."
2019-08-22T16:00:18 < salcedo> buy 1 led at a time :)
2019-08-22T16:01:17 < salcedo> what is wroom wroom loicense
2019-08-22T16:01:45 < salcedo> a vehicle ? nah
2019-08-22T16:01:47 < salcedo> don't do that
2019-08-22T16:02:26 < salcedo> vehicles are too damn expensive
2019-08-22T16:03:22 < salcedo> still not as much as having your own vehicle
2019-08-22T16:03:34 < salcedo> though i guess it depends on where you live
2019-08-22T16:04:21 < salcedo> where i live we drive car company's thrown away cars.
2019-08-22T16:04:36 < salcedo> because american vehicles are falling apart when they come off the assembly line lol
2019-08-22T16:04:42 < qyx> where i live we are making cars :S
2019-08-22T16:07:42 < Thorn> delta iv launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnGD__egREQ
2019-08-22T16:08:11 < salcedo> what are they putting up there?
2019-08-22T16:08:16 < salcedo> elysium parts?
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2019-08-22T17:48:28 < karlp> nice one schneider" Furthermore, due to the clock drift of each Modbus slave, it is mandatory to set date and time for all Modbus
2019-08-22T17:48:30 < karlp> slaves periodically. Recommended period is at least every 15 minutes
2019-08-22T17:48:51 < Steffanx> Haha
2019-08-22T18:12:39 < qyx> lol
2019-08-22T18:14:05 < qyx> thats 50ms drift per 15min for ~60ppm xtal
2019-08-22T18:15:41 < qyx> interesting
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2019-08-22T18:21:44 < ville> howdy. i recently received some https://os.mbed.com/platforms/ST-Nucleo-L432KC/ and was wondering if anyone knows where i could get the sources for the "default" software that's loaded on it? i'd like to have some known-to-work program i can slightly modify and upload to verify that i've my toolchain working
2019-08-22T18:23:24 < karlp> the original is probably buried ina cube demos somewhere.
2019-08-22T18:23:33 < karlp> however, https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-miniblink will work too....
2019-08-22T18:24:34 < qyx> oh there is a multiblink example
2019-08-22T18:24:41 < qyx> never saw that
2019-08-22T18:30:07 < ville> karlp: alright. i don't have any kind of hardware programmer, so if i succesfully flash one of these blink examples through the usb, will the board still be flashable through usb again?
2019-08-22T18:30:34 < ville> seeing as they make mention that they don't initialize any on-board perhipherals so i presume that would mean usb as well
2019-08-22T18:34:35 < Thorn> how do I set date/time over my radio protocol with latency compensation similar to what NTP does?
2019-08-22T18:35:01 < qyx> some transceivers can timestamp preamble start
2019-08-22T18:35:12 < qyx> *sync word detection I mean
2019-08-22T18:36:14 < qyx> but apart from that, idk, you may mimic the ntp
2019-08-22T18:36:35 < Thorn> the ones I'm using can generate interrupts on both of those things, that's all afaik
2019-08-22T18:37:03 < qyx> for some tens of ms, just transmit the time in a radio frame and set on reception
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2019-08-22T18:37:18 < qyx> adjust few ms depending on bit delays
2019-08-22T18:37:52 < BrainDamage> 1ms of delay is 300km
2019-08-22T18:38:01 < BrainDamage> you won't have sync issues
2019-08-22T18:38:28 < qyx> thats not the problem, the problem is you are not able to schedule the transmission exactly
2019-08-22T18:38:37 < Thorn> +1
2019-08-22T18:38:48 < qyx> even if the receiver can timestamp the sync
2019-08-22T18:39:14 < BrainDamage> ah, so it's for scheduling? are the nodes fixed in location?
2019-08-22T18:39:27 < Thorn> yes most likely
2019-08-22T18:40:00 < BrainDamage> can the nodes communicate with each other, or is it centralized?
2019-08-22T18:40:20 < BrainDamage> because if you know each node's relative position, then you can schedule 'perfectly'
2019-08-22T18:40:35 < Thorn> protocol version 1 is centralized
2019-08-22T18:41:53 < BrainDamage> for the distributed version, you can just have each node ping the others to know the relative delay
2019-08-22T18:42:24 < BrainDamage> once you have a map of the relative distances, then you can build a global db and setup a schedule
2019-08-22T18:44:20 < BrainDamage> otherwise, best you can do is stuff like CSMA/CA
2019-08-22T18:44:21 < Thorn> well that's not the problem I'm trying to solve
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2019-08-22T18:45:17 < Thorn> I want to transmit current time/date and account for delays in processing both on the tx end snd the rx end
2019-08-22T18:45:58 < karlp> ville: your board has a hardware programmer built into it :)
2019-08-22T18:46:51 < ville> karlp: hah ok. if it's not painfully obvious i've no clue about these embedded devices.
2019-08-22T18:47:25 < ville> karlp: so i take the answer would be: "Yes it will still be flashable through usb afterwards"?
2019-08-22T18:47:51 < jpa-> Thorn: can you get timestamp after it has been transmitted? i.e. could you do  "i'll send time soon", then timestamp it when you get txdone and rxdone interrupts, and after that send  "time of previous packet was XYZ"
2019-08-22T18:48:35 < Thorn> jpa-: yes that should be possible
2019-08-22T18:49:38 < BrainDamage> shouldn't the tx processing be deterministic? as in, fixed time + variable * packet size
2019-08-22T18:50:02 < jpa-> BrainDamage: not in power saving protocols, because the TX side knows the RX side won't be listening until next transmission window
2019-08-22T18:50:54 < Thorn> in my protocol there is a pretty complicated algorithm using time slots and csma/ca that decides when a packet scheduled to tx will actually tx
2019-08-22T19:01:57 < mawk> ville: more specifically the usb you used isn't the usb peripheral, it's just the usb port of the programmer
2019-08-22T19:05:03 < ville> mawk: ok, thanks that clears it up. 
2019-08-22T19:10:51 < mawk> if you want to use the usb peripheral of your board you need to cut up an old usb cable and connect it to relevant pins
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2019-08-22T19:14:38 < ville> alright so there's no: "if you send some specific sequence of messages through usb within N seconds of reset, the physical port will be used for flashing otherwise it's for regular usb"
2019-08-22T19:14:46 < mawk> but that's hard to do BrainDamage 
2019-08-22T19:14:48 < mawk> if there are constant collision
2019-08-22T19:15:08 < mawk> yes there is something like this with BOOT0 but only with the real USB peripheral ville 
2019-08-22T19:15:14 < mawk> not the usb port you have on the board
2019-08-22T19:15:46 < mawk> this one goes to the STLink programmer, but you can use it for simple communication since it presents itself as a COM port going to one of the UART peripheral on the chip
2019-08-22T19:16:19 < qyx> mawk: collisions are not important
2019-08-22T19:16:25 < ville> mawk: thanks. that clears things up and confirms i'll have to buy a soldering iron. i was hoping to make a USB joystick-like device.
2019-08-22T19:16:39 < qyx> if the radio frame collides, it it simply received corrupted and no time is se
2019-08-22T19:16:40 < qyx> set
2019-08-22T19:17:08 < qyx> the key is to have the MAC prepared for such things
2019-08-22T19:17:27 < qyx> ie. automatic timestamping of *out*going packets
2019-08-22T19:18:32 < qyx> if the packets are to be transmitted undeterministically, reordered, retransmitted on collisions etc. the MAC must handle that
2019-08-22T19:18:52 < qyx> it is hardly possible or not possible at all to do it from the network layer and up
2019-08-22T19:18:58 < mawk> I see
2019-08-22T19:19:12 < mawk> well you have CSMA/CD to clear that up a little
2019-08-22T19:19:27 < BrainDamage> you cannot do CD on wireless
2019-08-22T19:19:28 < qyx> you don't have the CD part
2019-08-22T19:19:36 < BrainDamage> because your TX deafens the RX
2019-08-22T19:19:41 < mawk> just detect if someone is talking when you're also talking, wait for random time
2019-08-22T19:19:48 < qyx> you can't
2019-08-22T19:20:01 < qyx> you just receive the frame corrupted
2019-08-22T19:20:23 < qyx> and that may mean collision, interference, something else
2019-08-22T19:20:46 < Thorn> sx12276, si4463 have collision detectors which detect a spike in RSSI. no idea if they work well enough, I'm not relying on them
2019-08-22T19:21:11 < mawk> yes, that's what I'm talking about
2019-08-22T19:21:15 < BrainDamage> just checksum the packets and check for corruption
2019-08-22T19:21:34 < qyx> but the whole csma thing is irrelevant
2019-08-22T19:21:35 < BrainDamage> but it can only be done at rx side
2019-08-22T19:21:50 < qyx> because you may or may not retransmit, detect corruption, do fec or what
2019-08-22T19:22:01 < qyx> you simply cannot tell from the higher layer when the actual data was transmitted
2019-08-22T19:22:41 < qyx> so if a precise time sync is required, it has to be done on lower layers
2019-08-22T19:22:51 < qyx> but we are still talking about time sync
2019-08-22T19:22:59 < qyx> Thorn wants simple time broadcasts
2019-08-22T19:23:28 < qyx> which is quite different problem, but the MAC messes with it too
2019-08-22T19:25:05 < qyx> if you are doing simple CSMA and can disable ARQ (= UDP style comms), you can do it
2019-08-22T19:25:26 < qyx> if there is any timeslot scheduling/allocation, centralized or distributed, it is harder
2019-08-22T19:30:11 < qyx> but unrelated question, having a round PCB of d=20mm, brass cap from the bottom, CR2032 from the top, is there a possiblity to put a non-zero amount STM32s on the board?
2019-08-22T19:31:31 < BrainDamage> make the cr2032 holder through hole and stack with the stm32?
2019-08-22T19:33:50 < qyx> I was not about to use any
2019-08-22T19:33:51 < qyx> hm
2019-08-22T19:34:06 < qyx> the holder I mean
2019-08-22T19:34:18 < qyx> maybe a simple spring in the middle of the PCB will do
2019-08-22T19:34:41 < BrainDamage> you can also get cr2032 with wires soldered on
2019-08-22T19:34:48 < qyx> https://static1.tme.eu/products_pics/3/9/4/3946bb00df4eebe135aa471d36e6ef68/6774.jpg
2019-08-22T19:36:52 < englishman> stm8 ftw
2019-08-22T19:39:58 < qyx> can stm8 protrude brass?
2019-08-22T19:41:08 < qyx> https://imgur.com/a/V1B511f
2019-08-22T19:41:41 < qyx> probably I could omit the CR2032 and use a smaller CR and rotate the PCB
2019-08-22T19:42:28 < qyx> but I also wanted to mount this thing to the cap with an O-ring https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity/MS5840-02BA01?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvhQj7WZhFIAD2P7qVC0dZ7mLNDVla24MmjOjAf9TONbw%3D%3D
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2019-08-22T20:12:10 < ville> looking at cheap soldering stations any objections to stamos as a brand?
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2019-08-22T21:26:39 < bitmask> damn, why do companies require logins to supply application notes
2019-08-22T21:26:54 < bitmask> and logins that are authorized, therefore I doubt I can get the application notes
2019-08-22T21:27:20 < qyx> rather not buy anything from us
2019-08-22T21:27:34 < BrainDamage> still better than "phone to get a quote"
2019-08-22T21:27:52 < Steffanx> ^ 
2019-08-22T21:28:32 < bitmask> meh
2019-08-22T21:30:22 < bitmask> I dont wanna order some of these chips and waste my time, I think I understand how they work
2019-08-22T21:41:18 < Steffanx> ok
2019-08-22T21:57:25 < Steffanx> Better buy some salt, bitmask
2019-08-22T21:58:52 < bitmask> bastard
2019-08-22T21:59:18 < Steffanx> hah
2019-08-22T22:00:54 < bitmask> cnc anything fun yet?
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2019-08-22T22:03:49 < Steffanx> nein
2019-08-22T22:04:02 < Steffanx> its not done yet. need a proper spot before i complete it all
2019-08-22T22:04:04 < Steffanx> and im working on that
2019-08-22T22:05:08 < Steffanx> after work days are too short.
2019-08-22T22:08:00 < bitmask> yea, just stop working like me, then you can work on projects all day
2019-08-22T22:08:06 < Steffanx> yeah
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2019-08-22T22:16:45 < machinehum> What's the best file format for a config file? It's getting read off an SD card and then I'm changing vars
2019-08-22T22:17:10 < qyx> embedded?
2019-08-22T22:17:10 < machinehum> Ideally there's a tiny little lib so I don't have to do all the string manipulation manually
2019-08-22T22:17:14 < machinehum> Yeah embedded
2019-08-22T22:17:34 < qyx> pure binary maybe
2019-08-22T22:18:00 < machinehum> Ideally you can open the file with a text editor
2019-08-22T22:18:12 < qyx> too many requirements
2019-08-22T22:18:17 < machinehum> There are only a couple of parameters
2019-08-22T22:24:18 < bitmask> ugh I thought I understood this IC but now I is confused
2019-08-22T22:25:43 < Steffanx> Will you be ok?
2019-08-22T22:26:14 < bitmask> I don't think so
2019-08-22T22:28:34 < bitmask> oh, I figgered it out
2019-08-22T22:28:45 < bitmask> I had two clocks switched in my mind
2019-08-22T22:29:32 < Steffanx> dont doe that
2019-08-22T22:29:32 < Steffanx> do
2019-08-22T22:29:49 < bitmask> thanks for the tip
2019-08-22T22:32:39 < Steffanx> Im glad i could help
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2019-08-22T22:42:56 < bitmask> think an M4 can handle reading animated gif from sd card and clocking out 82,000 words at 25 fps
2019-08-22T22:54:23 < bitmask> so at 20MHz you can transmit the 25 frames in (32716800 * 50nS = 1.63 Seconds
2019-08-22T22:54:24 < bitmask> uhhh
2019-08-22T22:54:51 < bitmask> thats no good
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2019-08-22T23:23:30 <@aandrew> hm, do lenovo computers have any kind of lojack-style theft prevention?
2019-08-22T23:23:56 <@aandrew> not talking cellular, but can the EFI get a message out over a wifi network if the OS has been replaced etc?
2019-08-22T23:28:12 < qyx> lojack is a low-level hijack?
2019-08-22T23:28:41 < qyx> you can probably replace keys for secure boot and lock the bios
2019-08-22T23:28:46 < qyx> and prevent anything other from booting
2019-08-22T23:29:05 < qyx> but idk, there are probably not many options if you clear nvram
2019-08-22T23:40:04 <@aandrew> yeah, apparently these have computrace but if he didn't activate it then he's screwed
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2019-08-22T23:43:32 < mawk> yeah you need activation of course
2019-08-22T23:44:45 < mawk> yeah you can change secure boot keys but if you can clear nvram you can put back the TPM in setup mode and change them back again
2019-08-22T23:45:02 < mawk> tie the computer to the desk with a big chain
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2019-08-22T23:46:14 < zyp> sup?
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2019-08-22T23:50:43 < Steffanx> Not much. There?
2019-08-22T23:51:33 < qyx> any low-Iq ldo recommendations?
2019-08-22T23:55:09 < qyx> TPS7A05 me like
2019-08-22T23:59:14 < qyx> DSBGA4 0.35mm pitch, for hand soldering
--- Day changed Fri Aug 23 2019
2019-08-23T00:00:54 < englishman> zyp: https://i.imgur.com/3dHsgA7.png
2019-08-23T00:00:56 < englishman> it works
2019-08-23T00:10:34 < Cracki> machinehum, look for "conf" file parsers, or just go with some json library for C?
2019-08-23T00:10:54 < karlp> qyx: there's Iq notes in the zypsnips, but that's only for sot23 regs, admittedly.
2019-08-23T00:11:00 < Cracki> look for a json lib that does proper parsing (char by char) so it doesn't have to have everything in ram at once
2019-08-23T00:11:37 < karlp> ini's are popular simple config files too
2019-08-23T00:11:44 < Cracki> I wouldn't say ini, but dumb "conf" files are just key value pairs and maybe sections
2019-08-23T00:11:52 < karlp> also just key=value too.
2019-08-23T00:12:35 < Cracki> do you need it to write the config back?
2019-08-23T00:13:32 < Cracki> in any case, I'd do that by writing a new file, then rename/move so hopefully the hardlink reassignment is atomic or can be made atomic
2019-08-23T00:13:47 < machinehum> For some reason fatfs mounting only works when the sytem first powers up, if I mount, unmount, remove card, insert card, mount again it fails :(
2019-08-23T00:14:05 < Cracki> unmount fucked up?
2019-08-23T00:14:14 < Cracki> "fails" is a splendid error code
2019-08-23T00:14:23 < machinehum> Possibly
2019-08-23T00:14:30 < machinehum> I'll check the error code
2019-08-23T00:16:46 < Cracki> if you go json, be aware of two common approaches: a tree walker that calls your function on every node (saves ram), or something that's like a database and you query by key and get a value back (which does the reading once into memory)
2019-08-23T00:17:37 < Cracki> if you don't need tree structure, i'd just go with a flat conf
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2019-08-23T00:20:36 < machinehum> Cracki: I just did a little conf file parcer
2019-08-23T00:20:43 < machinehum> fr comes back okay
2019-08-23T00:20:49 < machinehum> unmounting is working
2019-08-23T00:20:55 < Cracki> hmmm
2019-08-23T00:21:34 < Cracki> yeah a simple parser does fgets, strtok, str(case)cmp through a table
2019-08-23T00:24:43 < machinehum> FR_DISK_ERR :<
2019-08-23T00:25:38 < Cracki> lol
2019-08-23T00:26:16 < Cracki> bug report taped to a brick through the window
2019-08-23T00:28:50 < Cracki> >The lower layer, disk_read, disk_write or disk_ioctl function, reported that an unrecoverable hard error occured.
2019-08-23T00:29:17 < Cracki> those funcs come from you, I guess?
2019-08-23T00:34:30 < karlp> hrm, trying to squish a project down to fit on a smaller part, and.... 350 bytes of ram for newlib 2.5's __global_locale ?! https://github.com/bbcmicrobit/micropython/issues/363
2019-08-23T00:34:39 < karlp> anyone else looked at ways to avoid it?
2019-08-23T00:37:35 < karlp> or can tell mw how to find what function I've used that's pulling iit in?
2019-08-23T00:38:02 < machinehum> Cracki: Yeah
2019-08-23T00:38:17 < machinehum> My mount is not erroring out, it's my f_open
2019-08-23T00:38:34 < machinehum> The first time f_open is called SD_initialize gets called, the second time SD_initialize does not get called
2019-08-23T00:38:42 < machinehum> Even though thing should be init'd again
2019-08-23T00:38:55 < machinehum> There's a static varible somewhere
2019-08-23T00:39:19 < Cracki> get called by what?
2019-08-23T00:39:35 < Cracki> and why does it do lazy initialization?
2019-08-23T00:39:47 < Cracki> shouldn't that happen during mount?
2019-08-23T00:40:45 < machinehum> I just did a bt and it's being called by f_open
2019-08-23T00:41:19 < qyx> if you are using fatfs, yes, it is lazy
2019-08-23T00:41:51 < machinehum> https://pastebin.com/eTsmrkLY
2019-08-23T00:42:06 < machinehum> qyx: Yeah I'm using fatfs
2019-08-23T00:43:01 < machinehum> Time to just extern the funtion over and call it myself...
2019-08-23T00:43:30 < Cracki> googling for fatfs sd_initialize gives me some bug reports
2019-08-23T00:43:36 < Cracki> sounds like they fucked up
2019-08-23T00:44:15 < qyx> fuk kicad crystal_small off-grid
2019-08-23T00:44:27 < qyx> karlp-mode
2019-08-23T00:44:27 < Cracki> how do they manage that
2019-08-23T00:44:50 < karlp> doing wholesale overhaul of libraries for the new version I imagine.
2019-08-23T00:45:21 < karlp> post v5 has heaps of new stuff, but they're also doing _big_ things to get rid of some old bad stuff.  at least, that's my presumption basd on the volume of changes
2019-08-23T00:45:25 < qyx> how do you manage cistom libs?
2019-08-23T00:45:41 < qyx> in your own git repo?
2019-08-23T00:45:45 < karlp> yeah,
2019-08-23T00:45:50 < qyx> I assume you are not modifying the originals
2019-08-23T00:45:53 < karlp> noooo
2019-08-23T00:46:02 < qyx> it is tempting
2019-08-23T00:46:13 < karlp> fuck dealing with thaht down the road
2019-08-23T00:46:16 < qyx> right click > properties > edit in symbol editor
2019-08-23T00:46:23 < qyx> correct, done
2019-08-23T00:46:24 < karlp> do that,
2019-08-23T00:46:26 < qyx> but yeah
2019-08-23T00:46:32 < karlp> but then you just go, "save copy to library...."
2019-08-23T00:46:36 < karlp> and it's nearly as good.
2019-08-23T00:46:43 < qyx> oh
2019-08-23T00:46:49 < qyx> didn't see that option
2019-08-23T00:46:56 < Cracki> machinehum, does your situation look similar? https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009XkXvgSAF/bug-report-stm32cubemx-423-sdinitialize
2019-08-23T00:47:07 < karlp> or something like that, "it was easy" to copy an existing symbol into my library.
2019-08-23T00:47:16 < karlp> but nto done it for a little while
2019-08-23T00:48:02 < karlp> yeahh, just right click in the symbol in the left hand tree view of all the libs/footprints
2019-08-23T00:48:23 < karlp> "save copy as" and it lets you choose a lib and new name
2019-08-23T00:48:49 < qyx> also, is there any better way of adding your own footprint library
2019-08-23T00:48:57 < qyx> than making a new one
2019-08-23T00:49:00 < qyx> adding it to the list of libs
2019-08-23T00:49:09 < qyx> etc etc
2019-08-23T00:49:10 < karlp> that's what I did.
2019-08-23T00:49:17 < karlp> what othe way would you like?
2019-08-23T00:49:32 < qyx> the symbol lib editor is better in that regard
2019-08-23T00:49:48 < qyx> just create a new lib, create a new symbol in it, use it
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2019-08-23T00:50:03 < karlp> how is that not what you just said?
2019-08-23T00:50:14 < karlp> make new lib, add you footprints in it, use it?
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2019-08-23T00:50:47 < karlp> hrm, found one problem...   swclk wire is loose on this 6pin header. no wonder things were.... flaky
2019-08-23T00:51:18 < qyx> in footprint editor, you have to create a new footprint, save footprint in a new library, then open preferences > manage footprint libraries
2019-08-23T00:51:21 < qyx> browse, add it
2019-08-23T00:51:24 < qyx> then select active library
2019-08-23T00:51:29 < qyx> select te one you just added
2019-08-23T00:51:54 < qyx> and then you can finally save the footprint without kicad asking you shit
2019-08-23T00:51:58 < qyx> and even then
2019-08-23T00:52:10 < qyx> why the hell is it asking for the library every time you press ctrl+s
2019-08-23T00:52:35 < karlp> hrm, soldering iron is at the office. joy.
2019-08-23T00:55:31 < machinehum> Cracki: Nope
2019-08-23T00:56:02 < machinehum> Got it though, just dug into the fatFS source code. There is a line that checks to see if the device is init'd
2019-08-23T00:56:06 < fenugrec> aaah, finally looked up EIA-96 resistor markings. How did I live so long not knowing
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2019-08-23T00:56:10 < machinehum> Commented that out lol
2019-08-23T00:56:27 < machinehum> Time for the repercussions !!
2019-08-23T00:57:11 < Cracki> or maybe reset the inited-flag during deinit
2019-08-23T00:58:11 < machinehum> They use this somewhat complex structure filled with pointers and stuff
2019-08-23T00:58:26 < machinehum> I think it's more risky to go in there and start twiddling bits
2019-08-23T00:59:04 < Cracki> you don't sound like a klingon
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2019-08-23T01:08:47 < zyp> englishman, cool
2019-08-23T01:08:58 < zyp> reminds me of the laser lab at ALOMAR
2019-08-23T01:09:31 < emeb> fricken lasers
2019-08-23T01:09:32 < karlp> fack.  have a short between dac1 and dac2 on thsi board, and here was me looking for weird code reasons why I was getting same, but offset on that pin.
2019-08-23T01:09:54 < emeb> sometimes it *is* hardware's fault.
2019-08-23T01:10:48 < qyx> why did you short them
2019-08-23T01:12:10 < karlp> too much paste when I soldered it I guess, and shorting those pins isn't visible, and doesn't cause any problems until you try and do different things on the two of them at the sametime :)
2019-08-23T01:14:23 < qyx> hm, 1/1Mohm divider is still 1.5uA
2019-08-23T01:14:53 < qyx> and L412 have no vbat input
2019-08-23T01:15:07 < karlp> wat?
2019-08-23T01:15:14 < karlp> do they have some app note on what you'r emeant to be doing?
2019-08-23T01:15:41 < qyx> meh, I want to monitor a CR2032 voltage with a QFN32 L412
2019-08-23T01:16:01 < qyx> monitoring VDD obviously doesn't help
2019-08-23T01:16:21 < qyx> I wanted to power the L412 directly from the CR2032
2019-08-23T01:16:28 < mawk> you can put a small bandgap reference ic
2019-08-23T01:16:41 < qyx> but NOR flash memories are not wide-input-range enough
2019-08-23T01:16:53 < qyx> of course there are some working from 1.7V to 3.6V
2019-08-23T01:16:57 < qyx> but not many
2019-08-23T01:17:08 < qyx> so it is easier to ust use a LDO to 1.8V
2019-08-23T01:17:16 < qyx> but in that case.. ^
2019-08-23T01:17:18 < englishman> fram
2019-08-23T01:17:46 < qyx> not a feasible alternative for >64mbit
2019-08-23T01:18:02 < englishman> gd32?
2019-08-23T01:18:09 < qyx> nice try
2019-08-23T01:18:16 < qyx> ok, I am being too verbose today
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2019-08-23T02:26:49 < karlp> thanks for nothing arseholes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded/+bug/1686067
2019-08-23T02:29:38 < salcedo> launchpad
2019-08-23T02:29:44 < salcedo> where bugs go to be ignored and die
2019-08-23T02:30:39 < Cracki> kek who uses that? "blueprints" wtf is that
2019-08-23T02:30:51 < Cracki> are they unable to think like normal human beings?
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2019-08-23T02:32:30 < Cracki> that's what tripped me up with that shit some years ago when an advisor pushed his code to it and made me "maintainer". haven't touched the cursed platform ever since
2019-08-23T02:32:51 < karlp> yeah, it never worked well as a general project space Id on't think.
2019-08-23T02:33:48 < Cracki> I wish google would give me the right results for when I ask it "WHAT THE FUCK ..." (...is launchpad blueprints)
2019-08-23T02:34:29 < karlp> see, I thought it was fairly obvious.
2019-08-23T02:34:33 < karlp> but why ask google?
2019-08-23T02:34:53 < karlp> blueprints were/are for the big project level goals, ie, not trying to use special / meta bugs for it.
2019-08-23T02:38:01 < mawk> «We've investigated this issue and unfortunately it seems like this will require very significant re-engineering effort to remove the dependence on the locale-handling machinery, and there is no configure-time option to avoid this.»
2019-08-23T02:38:07 < mawk> why did it work correctly in previous releases then
2019-08-23T02:38:19 < karlp> probablyt didn't handle locales at all :)
2019-08-23T02:39:04 < Cracki> locale awareness in embedded projects... uh sure, but not on fucking M0
2019-08-23T02:39:25 < mawk> so there was a "very significant effort" done on a minor version number, but they still can't reverse it for the nano build
2019-08-23T02:39:25 < karlp> well... it's not M0 specific.
2019-08-23T02:39:25 < Cracki> feature creep
2019-08-23T02:39:45 < karlp> it's just paart of newlib 2.5+
2019-08-23T02:40:55 < Cracki> nano is 10^-9. let's see them come up with newlib-atto and blow that up too
2019-08-23T02:41:44 < karlp> I wonder wha th appens if I just discard that section from my own linker script....
2019-08-23T02:42:17 < mawk> reloc error probably
2019-08-23T02:42:24 < karlp> I'm not sure it's being used.
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2019-08-23T02:44:30 < karlp> I mean there's even text region usage due to setlocale, which I'm sure as shit not suing
2019-08-23T02:45:17 < mawk> yes
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2019-08-23T02:45:28 < mawk> I think if you don't call setlocale() then the symbols won't be used in the code
2019-08-23T02:45:42 < mawk> and if they coded it in the right way the symbols won't be needed either, normally
2019-08-23T02:45:44 < mawk> and no reloc error
2019-08-23T02:45:46 < karlp> so it would be _nice_ if gc_sections had... gc'd them 
2019-08-23T02:46:52 < Cracki> haha newlib is maintained by redhat. now it makes sense.
2019-08-23T02:52:08 < karlp> eh, can't figurte out how to even try .
2019-08-23T03:01:07 -!- mirage335 [~mirage335@204.141.172.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2019-08-23T03:02:00 < mawk> how to discard a section karlp ?
2019-08-23T03:02:25 < mawk> are you sure the function has its own section ? usually you don't do that on embedded systems, you waste bytes due to alignment requirements
2019-08-23T03:02:39 < mawk> all .text.* are merged into .text
2019-08-23T03:02:51 < mawk> but you can discard the .text from specific .o if you know the name
2019-08-23T03:04:11 < karlp> you don't have to align every section, what decade ar eyou in?
2019-08-23T03:04:23 < karlp> and yes, I know it's name, but my ld script foo wasn't sufficient.
2019-08-23T03:04:44 < karlp> are you really in embedded and _not_ putting functions in their own sections? 
2019-08-23T03:05:39 <@aandrew> hey guys -- bit of a weird request here. my brother had his first kid today (aug 22) -- could I get a newspaper from y'all? I can paypal whatever it costs to buy it and send it over but i think it'd be pretty wild to have this for his first son
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2019-08-23T03:06:45 < mawk> my grandparents did this for me
2019-08-23T03:07:37 < Cracki> I could ask some newsstand for the paper from yesterday since it's 2am here :P
2019-08-23T03:07:54 <@aandrew> Cracki: :-) that'd be cool
2019-08-23T03:08:00 <@aandrew> appreciate it
2019-08-23T03:08:29 < Cracki> maybe that'll encourage the kid ein bisschen deutsch zu lernen
2019-08-23T03:09:15 < Cracki> encourage them to make more kids maybe
2019-08-23T03:09:27 < Cracki> siblings are fun
2019-08-23T03:10:41 < karlp> I kept the local papers for both our daughters.
2019-08-23T03:11:31 <@aandrew> Cracki: yep. I've got six kids myself and one sibling. my wife's from a family of 7 kids
2019-08-23T03:12:57 < mawk> maybe the news guy still have "le parisien" from yesterday
2019-08-23T03:18:48 < salcedo> how on earth do you pay for all that
2019-08-23T03:18:51 < salcedo> non-US?
2019-08-23T03:22:48 < Cracki> maybe they still pay a living wage in canada
2019-08-23T03:23:42 < Cracki> or the kids are employed on the family farm, milking cows, soldering boards etc
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2019-08-23T03:45:26 < englishman> aandrew sits naked in his unfurnished basement all day fucking with lunix and gcc
2019-08-23T03:45:30 < englishman> and makes $250k
2019-08-23T03:45:59 < englishman> because even though he uses lunix he can get shit done
2019-08-23T03:46:08 < englishman> imagine if he used windows. he'd make at least double
2019-08-23T03:46:15 < dongs> lol
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2019-08-23T03:48:51 < englishman> freenode-connect>	You are running an outdated version of mIRC that is known to have a security issue allowing others to run arbitrary code on your computer (CVE-2019-6453); please update to the latest version as soon as possible. For more information, see https://www.mirc.com/news.html
2019-08-23T03:48:53 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49435117
2019-08-23T03:48:53 < englishman> loool
2019-08-23T03:51:00 < jadew> englishman, that's really old
2019-08-23T03:51:16 < jadew> it's why I stopped using mIRC
2019-08-23T03:51:57 < jadew> by now you're probably a tor node and a known socks IP
2019-08-23T03:53:09 < Cracki> bonfire!
2019-08-23T03:54:30 < Laurenceb> mIRC is old school even for me
2019-08-23T03:54:33 < jadew> aandrew, you have relatives in Romania, so I guess you don't need one from here?
2019-08-23T03:54:57 < karlp> heh, triangle gneration in the dac periph is neat, but... frequency depends onthe amplitude you select
2019-08-23T04:01:12 < englishman> yeah im definitely using mirc in 2019
2019-08-23T04:01:14 < englishman> that makes sense
2019-08-23T04:01:37 < jadew> I used it until that notification
2019-08-23T04:02:21 < jadew> I'm not super happy with what I have now, but it's growing on me
2019-08-23T04:02:41 < jadew> I like that I can type things like 90°
2019-08-23T04:03:02 < jadew> that's neaτ
2019-08-23T04:04:03 < Cracki> set ctcp version response to "mIRC 1.0" and see what the network does
2019-08-23T04:04:21 < jadew> it tries to install a backdoor
2019-08-23T04:04:26 < karlp> no cve records for versions that old? :)
2019-08-23T04:06:13 < Cracki> til: first release in 1995 https://www.mirc.com/pfaq.html
2019-08-23T04:07:21 < salcedo> back in the day, people would fake their version strings by hexediting the mIRc binary
2019-08-23T04:08:00 < salcedo> khaled put a const char pointer in there that had a message like "So, you're trying to hex out the version reply eh?"
2019-08-23T04:10:03 < jadew> mIRC could have become what slack is today
2019-08-23T04:10:12 < jadew> wasted opportunity
2019-08-23T04:11:56 < salcedo> there is a very good chance my pcbs will finally arrive tomorrow
2019-08-23T04:12:57 < salcedo> i am itching my beard like tyrone biggums at the thought of soldering that tssop
2019-08-23T04:13:00 < salcedo> gimmegimme!
2019-08-23T04:13:54 < jadew> right... I have to get back to work on my own PCBs
2019-08-23T04:13:55 < Laurenceb> >beard
2019-08-23T04:14:01 < jadew> I forgot for a bit
2019-08-23T04:14:03 < Laurenceb> soyboy spotted
2019-08-23T04:15:06 < Cracki> mexicans don't plant soy
2019-08-23T04:15:10 < salcedo> Laurenceb: it's camouflage
2019-08-23T04:15:15 < Laurenceb> keek
2019-08-23T04:15:35 < salcedo> i still need put put an apple logo sticker on my thinkpad for better stealth
2019-08-23T04:16:14 <@aandrew> jadew: I have my 15yo daughter who won't remember to do anything. If you're able to that would be awesome
2019-08-23T04:16:38 <@aandrew> englishman> aandrew sits naked in his unfurnished basement all day fucking with lunix and gcc
2019-08-23T04:16:45 <@aandrew> jesus I thought I found those webcams and disabled them
2019-08-23T04:16:48 < Cracki> explain the black exterior saying that apple made an edition for tops
2019-08-23T04:17:12 < jadew> aandrew, I don't know if I'll find one for 22nd tho, it's already morning here
2019-08-23T04:17:15 < jadew> (4 am)
2019-08-23T04:17:36 < jadew> do you have a preference for the type of newspaper?
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2019-08-23T04:18:13 <@aandrew> jadew: nope, no preference at all. doesn't even have to be in english, it's the snapshot of the world kind of idea
2019-08-23T04:18:28 < Laurenceb> salcedo: https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1406750-feminism
2019-08-23T04:18:30 < jadew> yeah
2019-08-23T04:18:40 < jadew> I'll go see what I can find
2019-08-23T04:18:45 < Laurenceb> found you
2019-08-23T04:21:33 < Laurenceb> - Don't place your titanium Apple Card in a pocket or bag that contains loose change, keys, or other potentially abrasive objects.
2019-08-23T04:21:35 < Laurenceb> my sides
2019-08-23T04:22:09 < jadew> wtf is that?
2019-08-23T04:22:15 < Cracki> EBT
2019-08-23T04:22:23 < Cracki> you get apples
2019-08-23T04:23:08 < Laurenceb> >titanium apple card
2019-08-23T04:23:12 < Laurenceb> what a time to be alive
2019-08-23T04:23:19 <@aandrew> Laurenceb: yeah I read that too... we make a daily use item so fragile you can't use it 
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2019-08-23T04:30:12 < Laurenceb> https://developers.slashdot.org/story/19/08/22/2019232/for-young-female-coders-internship-interviews-can-be-toxic
2019-08-23T04:30:36 < Laurenceb> >in another instance, a male interviewer laughed when the candidate said she saw herself becoming a software engineer in five years.
2019-08-23T04:30:39 < Laurenceb> the horror
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2019-08-23T04:33:28 < jadew> lol
2019-08-23T04:34:50 -!- con3 [~con3@ml.sun.ac.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2019-08-23T04:34:56 < jadew> people these days are fucking weak
2019-08-23T04:35:10 < jadew> how about answering back?
2019-08-23T04:37:27  * Laurenceb pictures shouting an insults in a job interview
2019-08-23T04:39:35 <@aandrew> Laurenceb: yeah being laughed at is a capital offense
2019-08-23T04:40:09 <@aandrew> jadew: is that kind of shit tolerated in .ro? or do they just laugh at you for acting like a pussy
2019-08-23T04:40:23 < jadew> aandrew, they laugh at you
2019-08-23T04:40:33 <@aandrew> yeah that's what I had expected (and hoped)
2019-08-23T04:40:39 < Laurenceb> I got laughed at by some grrls earlier for walking through the city center with a settee on my head
2019-08-23T04:40:50 < Laurenceb> its sexual harassment
2019-08-23T04:43:03 < jadew> only truly offensive crap matters in here
2019-08-23T04:43:39 <@aandrew> settee?
2019-08-23T04:44:01 < jadew> but that's settled differently than what I see happening in other countries
2019-08-23T04:44:12 <@aandrew> yeah I've been laughed at a few times in a professional setting. it's not nice or fun, but you don't go whining about it
2019-08-23T04:44:44 < jadew> exactly
2019-08-23T04:44:56 < jadew> you have to deal with it, if it's over the top
2019-08-23T04:45:23 < Laurenceb> aandrew: sofa
2019-08-23T04:45:29 <@aandrew> ...
2019-08-23T04:45:29 < Laurenceb> whatever its called in ur country
2019-08-23T04:45:44 <@aandrew> you were walking through a park with furniture on your head?
2019-08-23T04:45:49 <@aandrew> I'd probably laugh too
2019-08-23T04:46:12 < Laurenceb> no I was walking through the city center at midnight next to the nightclubs
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2019-08-23T04:46:32 < Laurenceb> I have a sore neck now
2019-08-23T04:46:33 <@aandrew> ... with furniture on your head
2019-08-23T04:46:50 < jadew> he's the mattress boy
2019-08-23T04:46:58 < Laurenceb> yeah I tried carrying it african style, it works quite well
2019-08-23T04:47:36 < jadew> I'm going to get something to drink and hopefully I'll find a newsstand open
2019-08-23T04:50:01 < Laurenceb> they had animated billboards for some uni clearing thing with "le realistic slightly imperfect guy" and I though it was my reflection lmao
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2019-08-23T04:52:04 <@aandrew> jadew: merci
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2019-08-23T05:31:25 < jadew> aandrew, np, unfortunately, there are no open news stands in the neighbourhood (I drove a bit)
2019-08-23T05:31:39 < jadew> they only had a weekly one at the gas station, so I got you one of those
2019-08-23T05:32:25 < jadew> I'll keep it here in case your daughter forgets about it
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2019-08-23T06:06:18 < ColdKeyboard> Does STM32F0 have unique ID?
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2019-08-23T06:22:07 < ColdKeyboard> Looks like 070 doesn't :(
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2019-08-23T06:36:49 < jadew> https://www.reddit.com/r/chrome/comments/ct7v22/soooo_someone_has_all_my_saved_passwords_and/
2019-08-23T06:42:04 < dongs> yep, exactly why i dont fucking sign into chrome and removed that shit from the options
2019-08-23T06:42:08 < dongs> fucking retarded shit
2019-08-23T06:42:14 < jadew> yeah, me neither
2019-08-23T06:42:29 < jadew> how did you remove it from the options tho?
2019-08-23T06:43:22 < dongs> tehre'sa  chrome://flag thing
2019-08-23T06:43:28 < dongs> where it stops fucking bugging you about signing in
2019-08-23T06:43:42 < dongs> forgot what teh shit it was called
2019-08-23T06:43:47 < dongs> but when the auto-sign in stuff first showed up
2019-08-23T06:43:51 < dongs> thats what i disabled
2019-08-23T06:46:10 < jadew> it's no longer there
2019-08-23T06:46:16 < jadew> "Allow chrome signin"
2019-08-23T06:46:21 < jadew> no longer an option
2019-08-23T06:46:29 < jadew> oh wait
2019-08-23T06:46:32 < jadew> maybe it's in the settings
2019-08-23T06:46:59 < jadew> done
2019-08-23T06:47:49 < dongs> moved to settings from the flags:// looks like
2019-08-23T06:47:50 < dongs> yeah
2019-08-23T06:48:34 < dongs> when it first dropped in chrome 60-something it was only available in flags
2019-08-23T06:49:44 < jadew> oh, it looks like I'm logged in
2019-08-23T06:49:48 < jadew> I don't know how that happened
2019-08-23T06:49:55 < jadew> but sync is not turned on
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2019-08-23T08:39:14 < jadew> man... the chinese are fucking amazing
2019-08-23T08:39:37 < jadew> I bought a cable to test it, worked fine, looked good
2019-08-23T08:39:48 < jadew> bought 10 more, they're slightly worse
2019-08-23T08:40:01 < jadew> because they used shittier cables
2019-08-23T08:41:02 < jadew> they're basically different products
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2019-08-23T11:58:26 < ville> any opinions on https://www.amazon.com/Beginning-STM32-Developing-FreeRTOS-libopencm3/dp/1484236238 as an introduction to get going?
2019-08-23T12:02:47 < Cracki> adjacent options: go with ST's HAL (and cubemx-generated code scaffolding) or bare metal and poke registers yourself: https://vivonomicon.com/2018/04/02/bare-metal-stm32-programming-part-1-hello-arm/
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2019-08-23T12:14:58 < ville> Cracki: alright i'll give that a read. thanks
2019-08-23T12:16:16 < Cracki> just saying, in case you get no responses to that specific book
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2019-08-23T12:48:05 < canton7> Hi, I'm trying to understand exactly what happens on a Cortex-M4 if CSS is enabled and HSE fails. The reference manual says "If the HSE oscillator is used directly or indirectly as the system clock (indirectly meaning that it is directly used as PLL input clock, and that PLL clock is the system clock) and a failure is detected, then the system
2019-08-23T12:48:05 < canton7> clock switches to the HSI oscillator and the HSE oscillator is disabled.". If I've got the System Clock Mux set so that PLLCLK is my SYSCLK source (and PLL Source Mux set so that HSE is the PLL's source), does that mean that PLL Source Mux switches so that HSI is the PLL source, or does it mean that System Clock Mux switches so that HSI is the
2019-08-23T12:48:06 < canton7> SYSCLK source (and the PLL isn't used)? I'd guess the latter.
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2019-08-23T12:58:27 < jpa-> canton7: i'd think the system clock mux switches to HSI
2019-08-23T12:58:37 < jpa-> because PLL can't run from HSI at max speed on most STM32's
2019-08-23T12:58:50 < canton7> Aha cool, thanks
2019-08-23T12:59:49 < jpa-> If the HSE oscillator clock was the clock source of PLL used as the system clock when the
2019-08-23T12:59:49 < jpa-> failure occurred, PLL is also disabled.
2019-08-23T12:59:56 < jpa-> says stm32f4 reference manual
2019-08-23T13:01:35 < canton7> Yeah, on my first few readings that appeared to contradict the paragraph above it, which is what confused me
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2019-08-23T13:48:17 < karlp> jpa-: what can't run off hsi at full speed?
2019-08-23T13:48:39 < karlp> it gets the same dividiers as hse inthe pll, it's "just" like any other crystal isn't it?
2019-08-23T13:56:05 < qyx> there was something 64MHz max with HSI, 72MHz max with HSE
2019-08-23T13:56:13 < qyx> idk if it was F3 or F1
2019-08-23T14:00:30 < karlp> ah, moneyed westerners with their super fast stm32s.. or something.
2019-08-23T14:02:36 < mrus> anyone here experience with RIOT OS?
2019-08-23T14:03:05 < karlp> I can't see anything in rm0090 at least about limits on hsi.
2019-08-23T14:03:48 < qyx> no, but there was something with max multiplier
2019-08-23T14:04:07 < qyx> you could get 64MHz with 8MHz HSE too
2019-08-23T14:04:18 < qyx> iirc you required more MHz xtal
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2019-08-23T14:08:32 < karlp> F1 says, this, "When the HSI is used as a PLL clock input, the maximum system clock frequency that can be achieved is
2019-08-23T14:08:34 < karlp> 64 MHz"
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2019-08-23T14:08:44 < karlp> but I can't see it in f4 or anything not full of suck like the f1
2019-08-23T14:10:10 < karlp> doesn't say why, just a footnote
2019-08-23T14:10:40 < Laurenceb> maybe avr style phase jitter
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2019-08-23T14:42:41 < kakimir> Ultrasauce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7DfQMPmJRI
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2019-08-23T15:00:46 < karlp> huh, that's really fucking weird that f070 doesn't have the unique id bits.
2019-08-23T15:00:52 < karlp> what a gross thing to cost save out
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2019-08-23T15:07:50 < Ultrasauce> not a huge fan of tool
2019-08-23T15:07:57 < zyp> haha
2019-08-23T15:08:48 < zyp> karlp, I'm pretty sure the 64MHz limit is due to clock quality/stability
2019-08-23T15:09:51 < zyp> qyx, might be both f1 and f3, I think they have the same clock tree
2019-08-23T15:13:05 < jpa-> karlp: AFAIK too much clock jitter in HSI
2019-08-23T15:13:09 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1i-89_EUOU theres my counter-musicspam kakimir
2019-08-23T15:15:05 < jpa-> karlp: but yeah, looks like i remembered wrong and the limit is only for F1, not for F4
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2019-08-23T15:16:51  * karlp queues up autechre with anticipation
2019-08-23T15:17:24 < karlp> loved them in the past, thought their RA mix a month ago was very boring though....
2019-08-23T15:20:43 < Ultrasauce> see on see and yuop are my favourites on this one
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2019-08-23T16:21:46 < salcedo> TENDERED TO DELIVERY SERVICE PROVIDER
2019-08-23T16:22:52 < salcedo> by the time these pcbs get here, they're gonna be raging alcoholics with some stories to tell
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2019-08-23T16:47:05 < fenugrec> hum, lcsc is nice for semis and passives, but not great for connectors eh
2019-08-23T16:47:55 < qyx> expensive?
2019-08-23T16:48:14 < fenugrec> just no selection
2019-08-23T16:48:32 < fenugrec> can't find DC barrel plugs (wire-mount) at all
2019-08-23T16:48:40 < qyx> try tme.eu
2019-08-23T16:54:31 < fenugrec> so it's a polish LCSC ?
2019-08-23T16:55:45 < qyx> kind of
2019-08-23T16:55:49 < qyx> I would not say lcsc
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2019-08-23T16:58:38 < qyx> it is good for electromechanical parts, cables, cheap connectors
2019-08-23T16:58:49 < qyx> passives too
2019-08-23T16:58:53 < qyx> not good for semiconductors
2019-08-23T16:59:08 < fenugrec> interesting
2019-08-23T16:59:14 < Thorn> and brymen dmms
2019-08-23T16:59:15 < fenugrec> can't get a shipping quote though
2019-08-23T17:00:05 < qyx> where to?
2019-08-23T17:00:31 < fenugrec> can
2019-08-23T17:00:46 < fenugrec> need to register, login...
2019-08-23T17:02:13 < qyx> oh it would not be 2€ then probably
2019-08-23T17:02:31 < fenugrec> unnlikely, heh
2019-08-23T17:03:27 < qyx> china is probably nearer from the other side
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2019-08-23T17:06:29 < fenugrec> plus, subsidized shipping and all that
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2019-08-23T19:25:39 < englishman> tme is p nice
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2019-08-23T19:27:58 < fenugrec> englishman, ever order from them ?
2019-08-23T19:28:10 < englishman> sure a bunch
2019-08-23T19:28:17 < fenugrec> what's shipping like to here
2019-08-23T19:28:25 < englishman> DHL I think?
2019-08-23T19:28:33 < fenugrec> $ or $$?
2019-08-23T19:28:39 < englishman> it was reasonable
2019-08-23T19:28:50 < fenugrec> gtk
2019-08-23T19:28:55 < englishman> and I ordered like 600lbs of power supplies this one tine
2019-08-23T19:28:57 < englishman> time
2019-08-23T19:29:02 < fenugrec> oof
2019-08-23T19:29:04 < englishman> overnight
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2019-08-23T19:37:22 < qyx> 600lbs is how much
2019-08-23T19:37:33 < qyx> 270kg O-o
2019-08-23T19:37:44 < qyx> meanwells?
2019-08-23T19:41:37 < englishman> yeah or another name brand I forget
2019-08-23T19:41:56 < englishman> it's hard to buy that nice name brand shit in China so I went to Poland
2019-08-23T19:42:15 < englishman> 100% of off brand power supplies I bought from my chinagirl have failed
2019-08-23T19:42:47 < antto> we order from tme when comet.bg doesn't have the sh*t (typically for trickier components)
2019-08-23T19:43:44 < antto> englishman ouch.. 100% ? did they have a "QC PASSED" sticker? ;P~
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2019-08-23T19:47:02 < fenugrec> Quality Crap
2019-08-23T20:01:43 < jadew> it was probably the caps
2019-08-23T20:01:53 < jadew> they always skimp on those
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2019-08-23T21:37:24 < qyx> englishman: they are great imho for their price
2019-08-23T21:38:19 < qyx> recently I used their medical MFM series, much features, such safety
2019-08-23T21:38:51 < qyx> I mean, PCBs are being manufactured, so hopefully those PCB modules will fit
2019-08-23T21:39:22 < qyx> because their dumb drawing has some dimensions missing
2019-08-23T21:41:53 < qyx> the other one is probably aimtec, isn't it?
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2019-08-23T22:18:00 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T2RonyJ_Ts NSFW
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2019-08-23T22:34:23 < Steffanx> Good evening kakimir
2019-08-23T22:34:43 < kakimir> yes hello
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2019-08-23T22:49:59 < kakimir> recommend foolish ideas Steffanx
2019-08-23T22:50:34 < Steffanx> irc
2019-08-23T22:51:50 < kakimir> I have forgot how to hook into my impulses
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2019-08-23T22:52:28 < Steffanx> Sorry, cant help you witht that. Need stroopwafels?
2019-08-23T22:52:49 < Steffanx> send your order to stroop@waffle.express
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2019-08-23T22:58:34 < kakimir> what other things you have?
2019-08-23T22:58:50 < Steffanx> Anything you can think of
2019-08-23T22:59:13 < Steffanx> as long as its stroopwafel
2019-08-23T23:08:23 < Steffanx> is the moped moving again kakimir?
2019-08-23T23:10:22 < kakimir> it never seized
2019-08-23T23:10:34 < kakimir> it's kinda cold now
2019-08-23T23:11:04 < Steffanx> !wz finland
2019-08-23T23:11:15 < Steffanx> hm,, englishman killed it?
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2019-08-23T23:31:27 < qyx> kakimir seeking foolish ideas?
2019-08-23T23:31:38 < kakimir> sure
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2019-08-23T23:59:47 < englishman> WHOA
--- Day changed Sat Aug 24 2019
2019-08-24T00:00:00 < englishman> You can trade in your kikecad license to upgrade to Altium
2019-08-24T00:00:12 < englishman> 3k USD
2019-08-24T00:00:48 < englishman> Steffanx: no, it's broken, I think wunderground sucks now
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2019-08-24T00:02:17 < kakimir> englishman: wut?
2019-08-24T00:02:46 < englishman> that's what it says
2019-08-24T00:02:51 < englishman> on the altidumb site
2019-08-24T00:03:01 < englishman> trade in your kikecad, get $3k off altidumb
2019-08-24T00:03:36 < qyx> how, does kikecad have commercial licenses?
2019-08-24T00:03:36 < Steffanx> Lies
2019-08-24T00:04:49 < kakimir> oh you get 3k off
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2019-08-24T00:18:58 < karlp> altium still a) doens't run on linux and b) still way too much for people that don't have dedicated hw people all the time
2019-08-24T00:21:23 < zyp> if you can afford altium, you can probably also afford to either keep a windows computer for the purpose or vmware :p
2019-08-24T00:22:05 < Cracki> if you can afford a hw guy without altium, you can afford one with altium even more
2019-08-24T00:22:45 < salcedo> at what point would one concievably "need" altium?
2019-08-24T00:22:50 < zyp> I think I wrote off my vmware license on my company since I mainly got it to run altium
2019-08-24T00:22:56 < qyx> some decisions are made because you respect your brain sanity, not because there is a technical need
2019-08-24T00:23:28 < Cracki> technically you don't need more than plastic transparency sheets and permanent marker
2019-08-24T00:23:44 < Cracki> economically, removing frustration is a good thing
2019-08-24T00:24:13 < qyx> I was talking about "not running on linux"
2019-08-24T00:24:30 < Cracki> if you're done with a job in half the time, the software pays for itself almost right away
2019-08-24T00:24:37 < Cracki> ah, that too :P
2019-08-24T00:25:23 < karlp> Cracki: even if it's twice as fast, you've still gotta be making enough designs for that payoff.
2019-08-24T00:25:26 < qyx> moving from eagle to kikecad increased my productivity by a factor of 2
2019-08-24T00:25:44 < qyx> so for a couple of years I am not willing to increase it even more
2019-08-24T00:25:46 < zyp> if you're doing serious pcb consulting or something, you'll probably encounter altium files from the people you work with
2019-08-24T00:25:57 < karlp> absolutely, if you're doing pcb consulting
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2019-08-24T00:26:18 < karlp> but there's a lot of houses doing a _little_ bit of hw, and altium licenses are way out of reach
2019-08-24T00:26:26 < zyp> yeah
2019-08-24T00:26:38 < qyx> a little bit of everything
2019-08-24T00:26:41 < zyp> if you can inhouse everything, you can use whatever tool
2019-08-24T00:26:55 < zyp> but if you're exchanging files, the industry seems to use a lot of altium
2019-08-24T00:27:23 < karlp> yeah, our partners were using altium, but they're using fucking pads now.
2019-08-24T00:27:30 < zyp> haha
2019-08-24T00:27:42 < karlp> so, "unavailable" to "unavailable"
2019-08-24T00:28:01 < zyp> the two previous companies I worked for used altium
2019-08-24T00:28:20 < zyp> current one outsources hardware to a subcontractor that's using altium
2019-08-24T00:28:54 < qyx> but you are doing PCBs with M12 connectors
2019-08-24T00:29:03 < karlp> so $ automatically ;)
2019-08-24T00:29:12 < karlp> or shoudl I say, $$$
2019-08-24T00:29:20 < zyp> and then I've also done some private consulting, did some layout for one customer, some altium training and design review for another
2019-08-24T00:30:05 < zyp> still have the AD15 license from the company I worked for in 2015 :p
2019-08-24T00:30:48 < zyp> oh, I also did an entire pcb for that company as consulting after I got laid off
2019-08-24T00:31:57 < Cracki> sounds like getting hired is only useful because they can then fire you and engage you as a consultant
2019-08-24T00:32:15 < zyp> not really
2019-08-24T00:32:35 < Cracki> did they save any money by firing you and having you consult?
2019-08-24T00:34:28 < zyp> well, yeah, I've probably made less than $10k in total consulting for them, scattered over a period of some years
2019-08-24T00:34:55 < karlp> yeah, we have three seat  eagle 6 license still.
2019-08-24T00:34:58 < zyp> way cheaper than keeping me on and doing nothing
2019-08-24T00:35:12 < zyp> hmm, I think I might have a personal eagle 6 license
2019-08-24T00:35:12 < karlp> unfortuntely eagle 7 was when they finally introduced net names on pcb traces, so blah
2019-08-24T00:36:34 < zyp> yup
2019-08-24T00:36:36 < zyp> «Update HOBBYIST 1User Standard V6»
2019-08-24T00:37:17 < zyp> that was 49 EUR
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2019-08-24T00:40:42 < zyp> original v5 license was 105 EUR, but I wrote that one off as a project expense on a uni project so I didn't pay that myself :p
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2019-08-24T00:47:42 < day> im trying to understand this 'init' procedure https://pastebin.com/mRSbYPe6 what is the 'stacktop: .word 0x2000100' doing? and why are there so many '.word hang' in there?
2019-08-24T00:48:19 < zyp> you're looking at the vector table
2019-08-24T00:48:40 < zyp> the first vector is initial sp value, i.e. the top of the stack
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2019-08-24T00:51:04 < zyp> next value is address of reset handler, and the following 14 are various handlers (some are reserved), and since you don't have anything useful handler functions for those, they are pointed to a function that would just hang
2019-08-24T00:51:18 < zyp> s/anything/any/
2019-08-24T00:53:22 < day> i assume as long as i dont use any of the other handlers i wouldnt even need to init them?
2019-08-24T00:53:25 < zyp> the stack is usually placed at the end of the memory, so the top of the stack value should be ram base + ram size
2019-08-24T00:54:12 < zyp> ram base is usually 0x20000000 in most cortex-m mcus, and 0x1000 is 4k, so that places the stack at the end of a 4k ram block
2019-08-24T00:54:37 < zyp> or alternatively the intention might be to reserve first 4k of ram for stack and put everything else after
2019-08-24T00:55:06 < day> the code seems to work fine on my stm32f411 even though the title says m0. thus im not sure if the stacktop is actually correct, but im not too concerned about that
2019-08-24T00:55:12 < zyp> what do you mean by «init them»?
2019-08-24T00:55:45 < zyp> well, it works on any cortex-m, but you might not fully utilize the available memory :)
2019-08-24T00:55:57 < day> isnt the  vectortable a list of addresses that the processor jumps to on different events?
2019-08-24T00:56:17 < zyp> code for a chip with 4k of memory would run fine on a chip with 256k of memory, but won't utilize the spare 252k :p
2019-08-24T00:56:27 < zyp> correct
2019-08-24T00:57:16 < day> so by .word reset. i declare/init/set/point the reset handler vector to the 'reset' functions address
2019-08-24T00:57:25 < zyp> if you want a minimal vector table, you can make do with the first four entries
2019-08-24T00:57:42 < zyp> or even two, but that would make debugging annoying :)
2019-08-24T00:57:52 < zyp> correct
2019-08-24T00:58:08 < zyp> first four vectors are respectively: stack, reset, nmi and hardfault
2019-08-24T00:58:25 < zyp> nmi is not really used for anything in most cortex-m mcus so you can ignore that
2019-08-24T00:59:29 < zyp> but every illegal operation will result in a hardfault, so you generally want a handler on that that would just hang so you can attach the debugger, halt it and debug the system state
2019-08-24T01:00:15 < day> why is this 'assembler init procedure' required on ARM but not for AVR's though?
2019-08-24T01:00:30 < zyp> you're mistaken
2019-08-24T01:00:36 < day> i figured :)
2019-08-24T01:00:46 < day> im guessing the compiler does it in the background?
2019-08-24T01:00:49 < zyp> AVRs absolutely have both vector tables and handler functions in assembly
2019-08-24T01:01:13 < day> i know they do. but you can compile and run code without having to modify it
2019-08-24T01:01:16 < zyp> but it's included with avr-libc or whatever it's called
2019-08-24T01:01:22 < day> i see
2019-08-24T01:01:40 < zyp> the fun part about cortex-m is that you don't actually have to implement them in assembly
2019-08-24T01:01:44 < zyp> you can do them in C
2019-08-24T01:01:51 < zyp> (or C++)
2019-08-24T01:02:00 < day> so by telling the compiler for which chip im compiling it is able to do it on its own
2019-08-24T01:02:06 < day> oh 
2019-08-24T01:02:25 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/interrupt/interrupt.cpp#n94 <- here is my vector table
2019-08-24T01:02:48 < zyp> equivalent to your .word statements
2019-08-24T01:03:24 < day> the 0 are placeholders for reserved vectors i assume?
2019-08-24T01:03:39 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/startup/entry.cpp <- and here's the entry function
2019-08-24T01:03:50 < zyp> yes
2019-08-24T01:04:31 < day> the vectortables are identical on all chips? or is yours written for a specific one? it does look generic
2019-08-24T01:04:51 < zyp> the first 16 is cortex-m common, the rest is vendor defined and varies from chip to chip
2019-08-24T01:05:20 < zyp> I wrote that for a particular stm32, don't remember if it was f1 or f4 and never bothered adding more variants
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2019-08-24T01:05:31 < zyp> I don't tend to do much interrupt based code
2019-08-24T01:05:35 < day> i see
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2019-08-24T01:08:03 < zyp> there's also some differences between the different cortex-m variants, but that's subset/superset
2019-08-24T01:08:26 < zyp> e.g. on cortex-m0 the configurable fault handlers doesn't exist
2019-08-24T01:08:41 < zyp> (memmanage, busfault, usagefault)
2019-08-24T01:09:28 < zyp> on cortex-m0 they don't exist and those fault types are always promoted to hardfault
2019-08-24T01:09:45 < zyp> on cortex-m3 and up they are disabled by default and still promoted to hardfault
2019-08-24T01:10:27 < zyp> but you can enable them to e.g. trap certain faults on an earlier level so you only stop a single RTOS thread instead of halting the entire system
2019-08-24T01:11:18 < day> i doubt i will run into that anytime soon 
2019-08-24T01:11:56 < day> trying to get a feel for the platform (nucleo) without using a gigantic library
2019-08-24T01:12:17 < zyp> if you like C++ feel free to play with my library
2019-08-24T01:12:46 < qyx> nucleo is more like a mcu with nothing added
2019-08-24T01:12:51 < day> sadly not familiar with C++ and you make good use of its features :)
2019-08-24T01:13:13 < zyp> yes, that's the point :)
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2019-08-24T01:48:07 < turnip420> Is there an MCU company that maintains a really good HAL in C++?
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2019-08-24T02:58:15 < karlp> what sort of answer are you hoping for?
2019-08-24T02:58:49 < karlp> "oh, just buy this other chip insteaad of the one this channel is named after, and you'll be more productive, have whiter teeth, and will automatically get a pony every summer" ?
2019-08-24T02:58:53 < karlp> or just "no" ?
2019-08-24T03:04:01 < salcedo> what about a pony every summer?
2019-08-24T03:04:11 < salcedo> MLP430?
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2019-08-24T03:30:32 < salcedo> karlp: https://i.postimg.cc/Kv43yV3x/avr.png
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2019-08-24T08:41:23 < Thorn> some problems docking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg
2019-08-24T08:48:56 < dongs> how the fuck do i mass erase a niggadevice
2019-08-24T08:53:19 < dongs> thorn is it just flying away lol
2019-08-24T08:59:53 < Thorn> >The Soyuz spacecraft clearly executed abort commands sent from the station by cosmonauts Alexander Skvortsov and Alexey Ovchinin, but Russian flight controllers appear to be having trouble determining the spacecraft's orientation and departure trajectory
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2019-08-24T09:20:02 < dongs> hmm
2019-08-24T09:23:57 < dongs> boot0 is tied perm to ground on this board.
2019-08-24T09:24:02 < dongs> whta the fuck damnit
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2019-08-24T09:58:18 < qyx> Thorn: are there people onboard?
2019-08-24T09:59:20 < Thorn> no, just some kind of oversized action figure
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2019-08-24T15:51:18 < karlp> salcedo:hahhar
2019-08-24T15:57:56 < antto> uh oh, senpai is awake
2019-08-24T16:07:32 < Steffanx> Karlpai?
2019-08-24T16:11:25 < karlp> never been called that before, hope they didn't mean me.
2019-08-24T16:20:38 < dongs> I2C_CTL0(i2c_periph) |= I2C_CTL0_I2CEN;
2019-08-24T16:20:40 < dongs> so why would this not work
2019-08-24T16:21:52 < dongs> the write doesnt reflect in the register
2019-08-24T16:24:57 < Cracki> constants fucked?
2019-08-24T16:25:09 < dongs> looked through defines, looks legit
2019-08-24T16:25:30 < Cracki> that statement shows up in a few places online and I'd expect those to work too (or nobody noticed... which would be funny)
2019-08-24T16:26:01 < Cracki> does the register react to any other writes?
2019-08-24T16:27:14 < qyx> does the register exist?
2019-08-24T16:28:13 < Ultrasauce> did they move around the enable bits in the rcc
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2019-08-24T16:41:02 < dongs> geeeeeeeeeeez
2019-08-24T16:41:09 < dongs> all online examples of I2C on GD just fucking buttbang
2019-08-24T16:41:10 < dongs> what the fuck
2019-08-24T16:41:22 < dongs> https://github.com/YaFood/GD32F103/blob/master/TestI2C/driver/drv_i2c.c this sorta shit
2019-08-24T16:45:26 < Laurenceb> epin failz
2019-08-24T16:50:05 < dongs> https://github.com/pysco68/waveshare-hid/issues/7 hmmmm
2019-08-24T16:50:08 < dongs> my shit hangs in same place
2019-08-24T16:50:10 < dongs> but mine isnt a real stm
2019-08-24T16:57:29 < karlp> fuck st's website is slow today
2019-08-24T16:57:52 < dongs> just today?
2019-08-24T16:57:57 < dongs> its always slow wheneveri  try to use that shit
2019-08-24T16:57:59 < karlp> well, yeah, but feels even worse today
2019-08-24T16:58:02 < dongs> especially trying to login
2019-08-24T16:58:09 < dongs> like, they cant have more than a few 100 users
2019-08-24T16:58:17 < dongs> why does it take like 30 seconds to login
2019-08-24T16:58:44 < qyx> isnt it java
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2019-08-24T17:05:03 < dongs> hey it sorta works i just cant step it
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2019-08-24T17:09:33 < Cracki> gadsden bug
2019-08-24T17:10:11 < karlp> bleh, g4 prices on digikey are now ~same/better than f3, but unobtainium
2019-08-24T17:14:48 < fenugrec> does TypicalSTM32user have a database / spreadsheet system to keep track of what parts they have on-hand ? My personal inventory has exceeded what my retarded brain can keep track of, leading to double-ordering stuff or or the opposite, imaginary stock
2019-08-24T17:15:09 < dongs> partskeepr works for me
2019-08-24T17:15:37 < dongs> tho i have no idea what the current version is
2019-08-24T17:15:47 < dongs> it prolly got sold to some internet of shit startup
2019-08-24T17:16:43 < fenugrec> seems opensource, is it worth the trouble to setup and maintain
2019-08-24T17:16:59 < dongs> i just set it up once like 10 years ago and havent updated since
2019-08-24T17:19:25 < Cracki> https://github.com/partkeepr/PartKeepr/graphs/contributors
2019-08-24T17:20:54 < fenugrec> haha dongs you haven't missed much, looks like
2019-08-24T17:21:19 < dongs> yea there wasnt really much wrong with the old version. i doubt it updated much
2019-08-24T17:21:24 < dongs> the screenshots look similar to the UI i have
2019-08-24T17:25:15 < qyx> isnt a spreadsheet enough?
2019-08-24T17:25:35 < qyx> I have to tidy up my inventory first
2019-08-24T17:25:52 < qyx> I am preparing to start for the past 5 years
2019-08-24T17:26:17 < fenugrec> bomist.com looks really nice
2019-08-24T17:26:54 < fenugrec> qyx, sure, I can vomit up a broken spreadsheet that does half of what I'd like, but this sounds a lot like a wheel. I'm no wheelmaker
2019-08-24T17:27:23 < qyx> idk what  a regular ee needs
2019-08-24T17:27:33 < qyx> just a list of parts with some tags to filter
2019-08-24T17:27:52 < Cracki> start with a spreadsheet. or just a piece of paper?
2019-08-24T17:27:55 < qyx> datasheet is redundant imho, it is on the interwebs
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2019-08-24T17:28:07 < Cracki> you're only interested in current inventory, not historical data, right?
2019-08-24T17:28:09 < qyx> and count for every part no
2019-08-24T17:28:21 < Cracki> sounds like spreadsheet. they can do filtering.
2019-08-24T17:28:23 < qyx> I don't need historical data
2019-08-24T17:28:36 < Cracki> I need historical data but spreadsheets are still enough
2019-08-24T17:28:46 < Cracki> just makes for hyuuge tables
2019-08-24T17:29:06 < qyx> what is a huge table, 500 rows is not huge
2019-08-24T17:29:07 < karlp> bomist is just on one pc thoug?
2019-08-24T17:29:33 < Cracki> 500 rows, perhaps a few hundred columns, but deriving any info from that already needs macro functions
2019-08-24T17:29:54 < karlp> bomist wants $12 per MONTH
2019-08-24T17:29:55 < karlp> gtfo
2019-08-24T17:29:58 < qyx> the problem I have is how to categorize stuff
2019-08-24T17:30:06 < qyx> it is easy for ICs or other semiconductors
2019-08-24T17:30:18 < qyx> but with conenctors it is a pain
2019-08-24T17:30:21 < fenugrec> karlp, yea bomist=single-user
2019-08-24T17:30:32 < Cracki> a row/column per part, and one of the fields is a string of tags, and you filter by substring?
2019-08-24T17:31:08 < Cracki> bunch of fields for attributes, possibly empty, like R, C, L, flash, ram, package/pins, cost, ...
2019-08-24T17:31:20 < qyx> also I don't have a MBA to work with excel
2019-08-24T17:31:35 < Cracki> partkeepr maybe :>
2019-08-24T17:31:52 < Laurenceb> keek excel
2019-08-24T17:32:07 < Cracki> https://support.office.com/en-us/article/filter-data-in-a-range-or-table-01832226-31b5-4568-8806-38c37dcc180e
2019-08-24T17:32:24 < qyx> s/excel/libre thing
2019-08-24T17:32:29 < Laurenceb> someone on babbyshake tried to use excel to analyse audio attenuation of sound blocking materials
2019-08-24T17:32:42 < Laurenceb> >spreadsheet with 90 tabs
2019-08-24T17:33:02 < Cracki> hehehe
2019-08-24T17:33:17 < qyx> I think a greppable text file in a git will do
2019-08-24T17:33:28 < Cracki> :)
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2019-08-24T17:34:21 < qyx> it is multiuser, with history, nice search possibilities
2019-08-24T17:34:38 < karlp> lolrence: a friend used excel to do the image analysis of the output files of his atomic force microscope.
2019-08-24T17:34:51 < karlp> "it's tedious, and I think there should be a better tool than this"
2019-08-24T17:34:57 < karlp> "but I don't knkow programming"
2019-08-24T17:34:59 < qyx> lol
2019-08-24T17:35:18 < karlp> has managed a massive program with piles of science and maths... 
2019-08-24T17:35:46 < dongs> ok i think i got this i2c shit sorta
2019-08-24T17:35:46 < karlp> I think these days he's moved onto R.  or pandas, but progress at least. :)
2019-08-24T17:35:52 < dongs> its reading stuff, not correct sutff but at least reading
2019-08-24T17:36:07 < qyx> pandas is python?
2019-08-24T17:36:17 < karlp> yeah
2019-08-24T17:37:49 < karlp> bleh, partkeepr ships wiht a pile of crap in .htaccess files for apache
2019-08-24T17:38:04 < dongs> all symfony shit does
2019-08-24T17:38:10 < dongs> it is php aids
2019-08-24T17:38:11 < karlp> symfony?
2019-08-24T17:38:18 < dongs> some PHP framework
2019-08-24T17:38:53 < karlp> this has the worst installation instructions ever.
2019-08-24T17:38:59  * karlp goes back to what he was doing before
2019-08-24T17:39:19 < karlp> dongs: you got g4 in chinaland yet? digikey doesn't really have many of them either, but, is it "landing soon" or what?
2019-08-24T17:39:53 < dongs> doubtful. whats G4? stm32F4?
2019-08-24T17:39:59 < dongs> er stm32g4
2019-08-24T17:40:06 < dongs> with USB-PD shit?
2019-08-24T17:40:27 < fenugrec> partsbox.io : 37E/month. Sure.
2019-08-24T17:40:36 < dongs> lmao yeah right
2019-08-24T17:40:42 < dongs> fuckin internet of shit crap
2019-08-24T17:41:04 < salcedo> n-gate.com is the authoritative source of webshit news
2019-08-24T17:41:12 < Cracki> for makerspaces where nobody knows any coding
2019-08-24T17:41:22 < salcedo> "maker" space
2019-08-24T17:41:49 < Cracki> where old rusty tools are bought for big bucks and then stood in the corner because nobody knows how to really use them
2019-08-24T17:42:14 < salcedo> some makerspaces will teach you how to use the tools if you pay lots of money
2019-08-24T17:42:23 < Cracki> one customer of my boss does the same. keeps huge machines in his factory so it doesn't look empty.
2019-08-24T17:45:08 < karlp> dongs: it's also meant to be cost reduced across the board. digikey prices are lower than comparable ones,
2019-08-24T17:45:17 < karlp> less power pins too, just updates.
2019-08-24T17:45:26 < karlp> anyway, on problem.
2019-08-24T17:46:06 < salcedo> still no answer on why i didn't get a pony this summer.
2019-08-24T17:47:02 < dongs> hmmm
2019-08-24T17:47:11 < dongs> this chinese MPU6050 returns a different value for WHO_AM_I
2019-08-24T17:47:16 < dongs> but another register i tried reading is OK
2019-08-24T17:47:20 < dongs> (default power-on value)
2019-08-24T17:47:21 < dongs> wtf lol
2019-08-24T17:50:12 <@aandrew> fun shit
2019-08-24T17:50:25 <@aandrew> what've you been working on lately dongs you haven't been ranting much
2019-08-24T17:50:30 <@aandrew> life getting too easy or something
2019-08-24T17:50:33 < dongs> nah just busy with this
2019-08-24T17:50:43 < dongs> got some free time, fucking with chink hoverboard junk
2019-08-24T17:50:49 <@aandrew> interesting
2019-08-24T17:51:01 < dongs> err this -> shit
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2019-08-24T17:53:04 < salcedo> new matrix movie is coming out
2019-08-24T17:53:43 <@aandrew> yeah I heard... wtf
2019-08-24T17:53:51 < salcedo> place your bets on neo and morpheus being soyboys and trinity is a hardcore feminist black woman.
2019-08-24T17:54:53 < salcedo> followed by the production company blaming "white cishet male internet trolls" as the sole reason nobody went to see it in theaters.
2019-08-24T17:58:22 < dongs> nah thats just coz wachowsky brothers are transfags now
2019-08-24T18:00:33 < salcedo> [reflow-firmware] % curl -X ABC http://192.168.108.179/profile/1
2019-08-24T18:00:35 < salcedo> curl: (52) Empty reply from server
2019-08-24T18:00:37 < salcedo> hrm interesting.
2019-08-24T18:01:46 -!- kakimir [575d220c@87-93-34-12.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-08-24T18:02:19 < salcedo> the handler lets you specify which request methods to allow, but passes everything through anyway.
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2019-08-24T18:30:54 < qyx> fuk ti
2019-08-24T18:31:02 < qyx> enter valid zip or postal code or N/A
2019-08-24T18:31:13 < qyx> entering 12345, NO
2019-08-24T18:31:19 < qyx> entering N/A, NO
2019-08-24T18:31:20 < dongs> 90210 baby
2019-08-24T18:31:26 < qyx> entering 123 45, OK
2019-08-24T18:32:29 < qyx> their webench power designer was free in the past, now it asks for an account
2019-08-24T18:33:00 < qyx> also Try Google Chrome for a better experience. 
2019-08-24T18:34:45 < qyx> also their login is not working
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2019-08-24T19:16:37 < Cracki> >wachowsky "brothers"
2019-08-24T19:16:45 < Cracki> dongs, look into partkeepr :P
2019-08-24T19:17:38 < Cracki> github commits for insight
2019-08-24T19:17:58 < mawk> in which language are you doing the backend server salcedo ?
2019-08-24T19:18:27 < salcedo> for the reflow oven?
2019-08-24T19:18:31 < salcedo> c++
2019-08-24T19:18:41 < salcedo> using platformio. (it's a wemos d1 mini)
2019-08-24T19:19:54 < salcedo> i'm cheating by not parsing any json.
2019-08-24T19:20:15 < salcedo> when i post a reflow profile from the frontend, it goes right into SPIFFS
2019-08-24T19:20:27 < salcedo> (the json)
2019-08-24T19:20:38 < salcedo> then when i want to pull it back out, it just reads the file and sends it
2019-08-24T19:35:46 < qyx> what 2pin xtal package is the most common/obtainable?
2019-08-24T19:35:54 < qyx> like 3225 for 4pin, but for 2pin
2019-08-24T19:36:22 < qyx> and not hc49
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2019-08-24T20:29:04 < zyp> why 2pin?
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2019-08-24T20:45:09 < Steffanx> Asking for 2 pins and then excluding HC49.. :D
2019-08-24T20:50:21 < ville> what do you folks use to generate the necessary boilerplate when starting a new project for stm32? write it out by hand? regex replace some templates you've or some utility program?
2019-08-24T20:53:02 < Cracki> cubemx
2019-08-24T20:54:54 < Cracki> does lots of things for you, has "middleware" for USB and other things. haven't seen that it gives you byte-oriented send/receive for usb cdc (vcp) but that's just how life is
2019-08-24T20:55:04 <@aandrew> ville: I have a makefile I stole from somewhere online years ago; I just use cubemx and copy the used bits of HAL into my build system
2019-08-24T20:56:43 < ville> right, so cubemx it is then. the internet was unanimous.
2019-08-24T20:57:32 < mawk> but that's from the structure of the CDC itself Cracki no ?
2019-08-24T20:57:37 < mawk> it transports strings, not bytes
2019-08-24T20:57:56 < Cracki> the api i get from st's hal wants me to transmit whole buffers at once
2019-08-24T20:58:17 < Cracki> I haven't tested this but I think it translates into individual usb transfers
2019-08-24T20:58:19 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-24T20:58:25 < mawk> like it's done on the bus
2019-08-24T20:58:28 < Cracki> so if I did that 64 times with single bytes, it wouldn't compact that
2019-08-24T20:58:33 < Cracki> but that's what I want
2019-08-24T20:58:41 < mawk> ah
2019-08-24T20:58:43 < Cracki> I want printf to go over the usb cdc.
2019-08-24T20:58:51 < mawk> then I guess you can fill out the libc placeholders
2019-08-24T20:58:58 < mawk> eg _write() and the libc will do the buffering for you
2019-08-24T20:59:04 < mawk> line buffering by default I think
2019-08-24T20:59:12 < mawk> then you can use printf()
2019-08-24T20:59:16 < zyp> ville, I made my own lib with a focus on minimizing the amount of boilerplate required
2019-08-24T20:59:25 < Cracki> right... last time I redirected printf et al, they wanted single-char send/receive functions
2019-08-24T20:59:39 < Cracki> thanks for reminding me it does want a _write()
2019-08-24T20:59:53 <@aandrew> yeah remmeber usb strings are 16-bit words
2019-08-24T20:59:55 < mawk> it's in newlib there are a few "syscalls" you can provide, libc will use it
2019-08-24T21:00:12 <@aandrew> 0x00 'F' 0x00 'o' 0x00 'o' bullshit
2019-08-24T21:00:14 < Cracki> the usb buffer access is funny, I am ware
2019-08-24T21:00:14 < mawk> among them you can redirect _read and _write to CDC to have a pleasant interface
2019-08-24T21:00:20 < Cracki> *aware
2019-08-24T21:00:59 < zyp> aandrew, just use utf-16 string literals
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2019-08-24T21:01:12 < kakimir> hello dear
2019-08-24T21:01:19 <@aandrew> hey kaki
2019-08-24T21:01:20 < Cracki> now you're talking about strings related to descriptors
2019-08-24T21:01:24 < zyp> yes
2019-08-24T21:01:24 < kakimir> can you recommend compact soundsystem
2019-08-24T21:01:36 < kakimir> bluetooth slash wireless
2019-08-24T21:01:39 < zyp> CDC ACM can use whatever encoding you want
2019-08-24T21:01:40 < kakimir> mains powered
2019-08-24T21:01:45 < Cracki> those utf16 strings are unrelated to payload
2019-08-24T21:02:05 < bvernoux> does anyone have played with new STM32H7 Dual Core ?
2019-08-24T21:02:19 < kakimir> or do I just install beasty beast 400W speakers to my wall and have a rig for amp
2019-08-24T21:02:41 < kakimir> that involves only buying the mounting materials
2019-08-24T21:02:50 < Cracki> compact AND 400 watt?
2019-08-24T21:02:56 < kakimir> no
2019-08-24T21:03:11 < Cracki> some low resistance 18650 might do it
2019-08-24T21:03:12 < kakimir> I just need something to play musics
2019-08-24T21:03:16 < mawk> what's the use for that bvernoux ?
2019-08-24T21:03:35 < bvernoux> mainly hard realtime with USB ... 
2019-08-24T21:03:53 < zyp> bvernoux, is it symmetric or asymmetric?
2019-08-24T21:04:02 < bvernoux> as you are not locked with a single core doing all and breaking hard realtime especially when USB is used ...
2019-08-24T21:04:15 < zyp> I haven't played with it, but I've played with stm32wb which is also dualcore
2019-08-24T21:05:24 < mawk> with some scheduling you don't notice it if the core freq is high enough bvernoux no ?
2019-08-24T21:05:49 < zyp> mawk, depends on your realtime requirements
2019-08-24T21:06:10 < zyp> but yeah, in most cases you can get hard enough realtime running usb in a lower priority task
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2019-08-24T21:11:27 < mawk> I mean there are 480MHz single cores and USB HS is "just" 60MiB/s
2019-08-24T21:18:02 < qyx> ville: some use libopencm3, the minimum biolerplate is int main()
2019-08-24T21:19:44 < qyx> zyp: idk it is less than 4 but it seems to be uncommon
2019-08-24T21:19:53 < bvernoux> yes 480MHz on F7 side is nice ;)
2019-08-24T21:20:33 < bvernoux> the M4 on other side is limited to 216MHz but with HighSpeed peripherals as it was one of issue of M7/H7 as GPIO was "slow" not exceeding 20MHz ...
2019-08-24T21:20:53 < bvernoux> so it should be a must
2019-08-24T21:25:26 < kakimir> does esata provide 12v rail?
2019-08-24T21:25:45 < kakimir> is it requirement by standard?
2019-08-24T21:27:31 < kakimir> no
2019-08-24T21:27:40 < kakimir> what a turd
2019-08-24T21:28:00 < kakimir> next to useless
2019-08-24T21:28:40 < kakimir> +12v is optional
2019-08-24T21:28:45 < qyx> esata is like sata
2019-08-24T21:29:14 < kakimir> *esatap
2019-08-24T21:29:24 < mawk> the 12V was for floppies or something no ?
2019-08-24T21:29:35 < kakimir> 12v is for 2.5" drives
2019-08-24T21:29:38 < kakimir> sorry
2019-08-24T21:29:39 < kakimir> 3.5"
2019-08-24T21:30:21 < kakimir> but nowdays basically everything is powered by 12v rail and voltages are regulated with local regulation
2019-08-24T21:30:57 < mawk> what do you mean everything ?
2019-08-24T21:34:31 < kakimir> in old times multiple different voltages were required
2019-08-24T21:35:18 < kakimir> stuff didn't have so much of local regulators
2019-08-24T21:35:38 < mawk> but you said 12V is optional
2019-08-24T21:35:45 < mawk> so peripherals must surely be using something else
2019-08-24T21:35:50 < kakimir> in esatap*
2019-08-24T21:35:57 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-24T21:36:27 < kakimir> yeah and my hdd doesn't spin up when I connect it to laptop
2019-08-24T21:36:48 < kakimir> it seems to be rule that 2.5" drives are powered from +5
2019-08-24T21:37:00 < kakimir> and 3.5" are powered from +12
2019-08-24T21:39:13 < kakimir> craptops probs do not have that +12v stage
2019-08-24T21:40:18 < kakimir> probs +vbat -> 5V -> 1v range power lines
2019-08-24T21:41:28 < kakimir> 12v would most of cases require boost converter
2019-08-24T21:41:44 < kakimir> 3S batteries being the majority
2019-08-24T21:47:21 < kakimir> how do I migrate linux system from 1TB hdd to 120GB ssd?
2019-08-24T21:47:45 < kakimir> it has LVM
2019-08-24T21:47:55 < mawk> it fits right ?
2019-08-24T21:48:02 < kakimir> it should
2019-08-24T21:48:07 < mawk> you could just copy paste everything
2019-08-24T21:48:10 < mawk> then re-do the bootloader
2019-08-24T21:48:17 < mawk> is it the same scheme ? BIOS or UEFI on both sides
2019-08-24T21:48:44 < mawk> you can use rsync with nice flags that preserve all the file attributes
2019-08-24T21:48:48 < mawk> for the main partition
2019-08-24T21:48:59 < mawk> then re-do the bootloader with the new drive UUID, then re-do /etc/fstab
2019-08-24T21:49:09 < mawk> then redo the initramfs
2019-08-24T21:49:13 < mawk> and it should work
2019-08-24T21:49:25 < qyx> fuk, downsize fs, raw copy lvm part
2019-08-24T21:49:36 < kakimir> qyx wins
2019-08-24T21:49:40 < mawk> lol
2019-08-24T21:49:42 < qyx> update uuid in fstab
2019-08-24T21:49:45 < mawk> then at least change the uuid
2019-08-24T21:50:12 < kakimir> can I manipulate running system?
2019-08-24T21:50:16 < qyx> if uefi, dont forget to xopy the uefi part
2019-08-24T21:50:28 < qyx> no, extX cannot be downsized mounted
2019-08-24T21:50:39 < kakimir> I would rather dd exact size block
2019-08-24T21:50:46 < qyx> how so
2019-08-24T21:50:47 < mawk> but the partitions are the same size ?
2019-08-24T21:50:51 < mawk> you said 1TiB goes into 120GiB
2019-08-24T21:50:57 < kakimir> yes
2019-08-24T21:51:05 < BrainDamage> copy is faster, and you also take full advantage of the ssd
2019-08-24T21:51:16 < BrainDamage> because the fs can realign the data to the ssd
2019-08-24T21:51:55 < BrainDamage> you only need to copy and edit the uuid in the bootloader/fstab
2019-08-24T21:52:17 < BrainDamage> the efi imagine has to reside in another partition anyway due to spec
2019-08-24T21:52:20 < BrainDamage> image
2019-08-24T22:00:19 < kakimir> interesting
2019-08-24T22:00:34 < kakimir> if I boot with ssd connected system throws busybox at me
2019-08-24T22:01:01 < kakimir> with prompt line (initramfs)
2019-08-24T22:01:06 < kakimir> or something
2019-08-24T22:01:38 < BrainDamage> you likely have the initramfs in the boot partition along the bootloader
2019-08-24T22:01:43 < BrainDamage> and the efi stub
2019-08-24T22:01:59 < BrainDamage> and it's failing to find the root
2019-08-24T22:02:05 < BrainDamage> lsblk
2019-08-24T22:02:08 < kakimir> I removed ssd and system boots
2019-08-24T22:02:27 < BrainDamage> it's probably referencing the disk by device name instead of uuid
2019-08-24T22:02:35 < BrainDamage> so /dev/sda vs UUID=blah
2019-08-24T22:02:52 < BrainDamage> it's bad because if you plug another device, it can alter the order
2019-08-24T22:03:00 < BrainDamage> so the other device can become sda
2019-08-24T22:03:09 < kakimir> it's freshish install of linux mint I think bubuntu has had uuid for 10years or so
2019-08-24T22:03:16 < Ultrasauce> use labels not uuids
2019-08-24T22:03:23 < BrainDamage> labels also work
2019-08-24T22:07:28 < kakimir> like 45GB of ext4 is used
2019-08-24T22:15:30 < mawk> sounds like uuid collision kakimir 
2019-08-24T22:16:04 < mawk> after the copy change the uuid too, not just what you think the uuid should be in fstab and bl
2019-08-24T22:16:11 < mawk> with fdisk or whatever
2019-08-24T22:17:49 < mawk> I can sell you blank uuids if you want
2019-08-24T22:17:55 < mawk> send a pack of snus at my address
2019-08-24T22:18:00 < kakimir> sweet
2019-08-24T22:18:33 < mawk> the internet doesn't want to send in france
2019-08-24T22:18:33 < kakimir> would that be illegal?
2019-08-24T22:18:39 < mawk> I don't know
2019-08-24T22:18:42 < salcedo> heh
2019-08-24T22:18:46 < mawk> selling is illegal, but possession isn't
2019-08-24T22:18:49 < salcedo> got my pcbs finally
2019-08-24T22:18:52 < mawk> it's just a trade law, not something about narcotics
2019-08-24T22:18:54 < salcedo> 14tssop wasn't as hard as i thought
2019-08-24T22:19:12 < mawk> you soldered it then ?
2019-08-24T22:19:22 < mawk> without oven, since it's for an oven
2019-08-24T22:19:31 < salcedo> yea handsolder lelz
2019-08-24T22:19:44 < Steffanx> *sodder
2019-08-24T22:22:25 < salcedo> https://i.postimg.cc/JzZDqPpm/IMG-20190824-152035.jpg
2019-08-24T22:26:52 < salcedo> just did the other one
2019-08-24T22:27:00 < salcedo> (have 2 BOM)
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2019-08-24T22:42:44 < Thorn> need rf pros. wtf does all this mean
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2019-08-24T22:44:39 < qyx> idk, I don't see anything
2019-08-24T22:44:42 < Thorn> >when soyuz approach speed is too low @ a distance of 100...200 m (< 0.1 m/s) a standing wave forms because of interreflections, and the Kurs antennas happen to be in its node. therefore Kurs loses signal and fails. apparently this already happened 10 years ago
2019-08-24T22:44:47 < qyx> but not a rf pro
2019-08-24T22:45:24 < Thorn> normal speed at those distanes is 0.5...0.6 m/s
2019-08-24T22:46:18 < Thorn> how can such a small difference in velocity affect the fields so much?
2019-08-24T22:48:56 < salcedo> cool all smt parts done
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2019-08-24T22:54:13 < Cracki> moving faster means moving faster into and out of the resonance frequency?
2019-08-24T22:55:10 < Cracki> are they operating in single megahertz or what?
2019-08-24T22:56:37 < Cracki> nvm, it's not about distance, but about moving
2019-08-24T22:59:17 < Cracki> Thorn, where exactly are those antennas? you know nodes: https://physics.info/waves-standing/
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2019-08-24T23:00:22 < Thorn> http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz-ms-kurs-na.html
2019-08-24T23:04:48 < Thorn> an article about an old analog version https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234523051_Navigating_the_Road_to_Autonomous_Orbital_Rendezvous
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2019-08-24T23:08:27 < Thorn> https://docplayer.net/21481153-Modelling-of-soyuz-docking-and-radar-systems-for-implementation-in-the-irs-simulator.html
2019-08-24T23:17:10 < salcedo> https://i.postimg.cc/SNFp8htZ/IMG-20190824-160136.jpg
2019-08-24T23:19:12 < qyx> why so unaligned
2019-08-24T23:20:17 < salcedo> so blurry?
2019-08-24T23:20:18 < kakimir> when I check the SSD contents before destroying them it comes apparent why I'm building NAS
2019-08-24T23:20:38 < salcedo> or are you talking about everything being unaligned?
2019-08-24T23:20:42 < salcedo> it's 20 minutes in kicad
2019-08-24T23:20:46 < salcedo> and hand solder smt
2019-08-24T23:20:48 < salcedo> tf
2019-08-24T23:20:59 < kakimir> multiple ssds and hdds are full of stuff and lying around
2019-08-24T23:21:32 < salcedo> https://i.postimg.cc/j5BCPFGz/IMG-20190824-160308.jpg
2019-08-24T23:21:49 < qyx> I mean the terminal blocks
2019-08-24T23:22:00 < salcedo> oh. that's how they are.
2019-08-24T23:22:06 < salcedo> like you solder them in but the plastic is all wiggly.
2019-08-24T23:22:27 < Thorn> they rotate as you screw/unscrew them so they can't stay aligned
2019-08-24T23:22:36 < qyx> I would dare not order a PCB after 20mins of work
2019-08-24T23:22:50 < Thorn> (but, you can align them manually for a photo if you have OCD lol)
2019-08-24T23:22:54 < salcedo> it's not the pcb's fault the terminal blocks are cheap
2019-08-24T23:23:04 < qyx> Thorn: wut lol
2019-08-24T23:23:09 < qyx> not the screws
2019-08-24T23:23:10 < salcedo> idgaf
2019-08-24T23:23:39 < salcedo> they're flush with the pcb and the plastic shells still have tons of wiggly
2019-08-24T23:23:56 < Thorn> not the screws themselves lol, the green housings
2019-08-24T23:24:01 < salcedo> yeah
2019-08-24T23:24:17 < Thorn> when you tighten a screw the whole body rotates
2019-08-24T23:25:22 < qyx> rather don't rotate your body
2019-08-24T23:25:39 < Thorn> although if you're really OCD I guess you can align the screws too lol
2019-08-24T23:26:41 < Thorn> the future has arrived https://www.instagram.com/p/B1hWIcTHGP-/
2019-08-24T23:27:14 < salcedo> no magic smoke
2019-08-24T23:27:23 < salcedo> time to see if this thermocouple amp is detected
2019-08-24T23:27:27 < qyx> can I connect a green led with a optocoupler serially feeding them with 3V3
2019-08-24T23:31:39 < Cracki> green is no bueno
2019-08-24T23:33:19 < salcedo> Thermocouple type: K Type
2019-08-24T23:33:21 < salcedo> Cold Junction Temp: 29.39
2019-08-24T23:33:23 < salcedo> Thermocouple Temp: 1372.05
2019-08-24T23:33:25 < salcedo> Thermocouple Range Fault
2019-08-24T23:33:27 < salcedo> Thermocouple Open Fault
2019-08-24T23:33:29 < salcedo> hrm!
2019-08-24T23:33:31 < salcedo> maybe i should conect it
2019-08-24T23:35:50 < qyx> the cold junction is quite hot
2019-08-24T23:40:31 < salcedo> yea that's because it wasn't connected.
2019-08-24T23:40:50 < salcedo> works now.
2019-08-24T23:42:17 < salcedo> not bad. that's a successful pcb
2019-08-24T23:42:50 < salcedo> didn't prototype it at all lol
2019-08-24T23:44:24 < salcedo> the max31856 is way better
2019-08-24T23:44:32 < salcedo> put a bic lighter to it and it shot right up.
2019-08-24T23:44:46 < salcedo> also has more precision that 31855
2019-08-24T23:52:34 < disposabled[m]> @salcedo: I'm hoping today it's another +1d for you
2019-08-24T23:52:50 < salcedo> disposabled[m]: yep :)
2019-08-24T23:53:16 < salcedo> been a fuckin CBD zombie too
2019-08-24T23:53:42 < salcedo> "aren't you too old to be eating gummy bears?" "nope... not these ones."
2019-08-24T23:54:43 < disposabled[m]> Just keep on +1
2019-08-24T23:55:01 < salcedo> i am finally over the 3 day hell
2019-08-24T23:56:09 < salcedo> also i am hoping to hit 100lbs by january
2019-08-24T23:56:24 < salcedo> so far i am almost 70lbs down
2019-08-24T23:56:27 < salcedo> <-- fatass
2019-08-24T23:56:46 < disposabled[m]> ?? -100?
2019-08-24T23:56:56 < salcedo> you don't wanna know rofl
2019-08-24T23:57:00 < salcedo> it was bad. really bad.
2019-08-24T23:57:07 < salcedo> 410
2019-08-24T23:57:49 < salcedo> almost to the point where if i kept going up, i would not be able to excercise.
2019-08-24T23:57:56 < Cracki> >420
2019-08-24T23:58:03 < Cracki> goal is 69 or what
2019-08-24T23:58:19 < disposabled[m]> I have a friend who just did 270 -> 175 in a year
2019-08-24T23:58:37 < salcedo> yea for me to do 100lbs in a year is impressive. i've lost a lot before but that was in my 20's.
2019-08-24T23:58:45 < Cracki> respect
2019-08-24T23:58:59 < disposabled[m]> Much respect
2019-08-24T23:59:50 < disposabled[m]> I can't imagine how he did it
--- Day changed Sun Aug 25 2019
2019-08-25T00:00:39 < disposabled[m]> Amazing will power
2019-08-25T00:01:54 < disposabled[m]> Extra hard to do while kicking smoking at the same time
2019-08-25T00:03:01 < kakimir> I have maintained my heavy weight for years
2019-08-25T00:03:11 < kakimir> it has little to no change over time
2019-08-25T00:05:21 < kakimir> about 190lbs
2019-08-25T00:05:39 < kakimir> I don't know exactly
2019-08-25T00:06:49 < salcedo> disposabled[m]: yea it sucks but it's better than not dying in a few years.
2019-08-25T00:17:18 < Cracki> TIL: planet with life vs. planet with all life removed is a difference of just .0000001% (weight), or one part per billion
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2019-08-25T00:51:33 < kakimir> how about copying current system to bigger ssd
2019-08-25T00:51:45 < kakimir> or same size
2019-08-25T00:51:56 < kakimir> just dd and dones?
2019-08-25T00:54:16 < salcedo> wow these fets are sensitiiiive
2019-08-25T00:54:39 < qyx> did you manage to unfet some?
2019-08-25T00:54:46 < Steffanx> Are you done with freenas kakimir ?
2019-08-25T00:55:00 < salcedo> i probably should have put pull-downs on their inputs because the ac-hum from my laptop...
2019-08-25T00:55:08 < kakimir> yes.. waiting for minisas cables still steff
2019-08-25T00:55:25 < salcedo> around 2.6v of ac noise on the terminals
2019-08-25T00:55:34 < Steffanx> Oh its WIP
2019-08-25T00:55:54 < salcedo> which is still below what these solid state relays will trigger at, supposedly.
2019-08-25T00:56:04 < qyx> salcedo: how are you driving them?
2019-08-25T00:56:27 < salcedo> d1 mini gpio 3.3v through 330ohm resistors in series to the gates 
2019-08-25T00:56:51 < qyx> and the gpio is push-pull?
2019-08-25T00:57:04 < salcedo> hmmm... you're riiiight.
2019-08-25T00:57:24 < salcedo> let me see if toggling their mode eliminates the noise.
2019-08-25T00:57:29 < qyx> because you would need to be sitting on a transmitting tower to have 2.6V on a 330R
2019-08-25T00:57:49 < salcedo> no that's not where the 2.6V is
2019-08-25T00:58:52 < salcedo> https://github.com/salcedo/reflow-oven/blob/master/hardware/oven.pdf
2019-08-25T01:00:01 < salcedo> oh wait this is old. fets still the same though.
2019-08-25T01:03:04 < salcedo> <-- id10t error
2019-08-25T01:03:14 < salcedo> it's 2.6V PP
2019-08-25T01:03:34 < salcedo> so around 1.3v of ac hum. this is acceptable.
2019-08-25T01:03:56 < salcedo> changing the pins to inputs does not matter.
2019-08-25T01:04:38 < salcedo> 1.3v should be well enough below the trigger voltage of the triac in the relays
2019-08-25T01:05:09 < qyx> you should not have any 1.3V hum on the fets
2019-08-25T01:05:19 < qyx> you mean on the output?
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2019-08-25T01:05:23 < salcedo> yeah the outputs.
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2019-08-25T01:05:46 < qyx> if they are not conducting, then yes, because of their high impedance
2019-08-25T01:05:54 < qyx> input of the ssr is an optocoupler
2019-08-25T01:06:13 < qyx> so t should not be a problem
2019-08-25T01:06:38 < salcedo> the LED in the optocoupler won't produce enough light at 1.3v?
2019-08-25T01:06:50 < qyx> there is not enough current
2019-08-25T01:07:15 < qyx> *there will not be
2019-08-25T01:07:20 < salcedo> oh right.
2019-08-25T01:07:25 < qyx> when you connect the led to the output
2019-08-25T01:07:27 < salcedo> yea it scared me.
2019-08-25T01:07:35 < salcedo> i was like "oh shit that's a lot of noise."
2019-08-25T01:08:04 < qyx> if you touch the probe with a finger, you may measure tens of volts
2019-08-25T01:08:18 < salcedo> nope
2019-08-25T01:08:21 < salcedo> barely registers
2019-08-25T01:08:52 < qyx> then idk what are you doing
2019-08-25T01:09:15 < qyx> maybe some cap coupling/rf pros can answer
2019-08-25T01:09:16 < salcedo> sending square waves into the fets so i can make sure they all work
2019-08-25T01:09:29 < salcedo> oscope is pretending to be a relay
2019-08-25T01:09:58 < salcedo> probes in the terminal blocks
2019-08-25T01:10:40 < qyx> you know your ground on the scope is connected to PE
2019-08-25T01:11:00 < salcedo> not this scope
2019-08-25T01:11:18 < salcedo> it's a pocket-sized chinesium
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2019-08-25T01:26:17 < zyp> hmm, that dualcore H7 might be a good fit for my 3d printer shit
2019-08-25T01:28:00 < zyp> current code is running the control loop in a 100 kHz ISR, would be better to run a plain loop without interrupt overhead on a dedicated cpu
2019-08-25T01:31:04 < qyx> 74hc125 is the thing I want to use to buffer a high impedance 3V3 level signals to power some indicator leds?
2019-08-25T01:33:34 < zyp> why not 74hc05?
2019-08-25T01:34:03 < qyx> oh 74hc244 is maybe even more suitable
2019-08-25T01:34:09 < qyx> octal driver
2019-08-25T01:34:39 < zyp> do you need tristate?
2019-08-25T01:34:49 < qyx> no
2019-08-25T01:35:24 < qyx> but I need 8 leds
2019-08-25T01:35:39 < zyp> ah
2019-08-25T01:35:41 < zyp> fair
2019-08-25T01:35:53 < qyx> the 74hc05 is good, but 6 only
2019-08-25T01:35:57 < qyx> I would need two
2019-08-25T01:36:18 < zyp> well, tristating could be useful too, could run a matrix and save two inputs
2019-08-25T01:36:49 < zyp> or what about just going for a shift register?
2019-08-25T01:37:04 < qyx> this is for PLC-like optocoupler inputs, I want to buffer the optocoupler outputs (going to the MCU) to show with LEDS
2019-08-25T01:37:25 < zyp> ah
2019-08-25T01:37:36 < qyx> I can use high value pullups that way
2019-08-25T01:37:53 < qyx> because of CTR
2019-08-25T01:38:48 < zyp> did you see the ST spam about some neat chips for PLC-ish IO a couple of weeks ago?
2019-08-25T01:39:00 < qyx> the iolink thing?
2019-08-25T01:39:10 < qyx> or was it something dirrefernt
2019-08-25T01:39:54 < zyp> hang on, finding
2019-08-25T01:41:03 < zyp> hmm, the input chip is not isolated
2019-08-25T01:41:06 < zyp> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/clt01-38sq7.pdf
2019-08-25T01:41:23 < zyp> but the output chip is: https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/iso8200aq.pdf
2019-08-25T01:41:37 < zyp> the ST spam was about a nucleo addon board with the latter
2019-08-25T01:41:52 < zyp> https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/ecosystems/stm32-open-development-environment/stm32-nucleo-expansion-boards/stm32-ode-translate-hw/x-nucleo-out02a1.html?ecmp=tt12277_gl_enews_jul2019&cid=stmDM20510&bid=236233682&uid=cpM+BU1XQah/7h0X68TX5g==
2019-08-25T01:42:45 < qyx> is it ust a fancy SPI GPIO expander?
2019-08-25T01:43:03 < zyp> I believe so
2019-08-25T01:43:22 < zyp> it also has led outputs, like what you wanna make now
2019-08-25T01:44:41 < qyx> yeah the input one
2019-08-25T01:44:53 < qyx> oh the isolated one is great
2019-08-25T01:45:00 < qyx> for sourcing outputs
2019-08-25T01:45:07 < zyp> yes
2019-08-25T01:45:10 < qyx> must be 15€ at least
2019-08-25T01:45:18 < zyp> I don't doubt that :p
2019-08-25T01:45:40 < qyx> huh lol 2.20€ on mouser
2019-08-25T01:45:41 < zyp> but that's okay, if you make a PLC output module you can charge 150€ for it
2019-08-25T01:45:41 < qyx> wtf
2019-08-25T01:45:47 < zyp> cool
2019-08-25T01:45:56 < qyx> CLT01-38SQ7-TR
2019-08-25T01:46:03 < qyx> not sure if trolling
2019-08-25T01:46:13 < qyx> it is even cheaper than a common digital isolators
2019-08-25T01:46:23 < qyx> ADUMs
2019-08-25T01:47:22 < qyx> ok, I was wrong, CLT01 is the input one, non isolated
2019-08-25T01:47:25 < qyx> wrong copy&paste
2019-08-25T01:47:52 < qyx> the other one is around 5€, still good, ISO8200AQ
2019-08-25T01:49:45 < zyp> gotta remember that one, might come in useful at some point
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2019-08-25T03:15:48 < salcedo> built 2nd controller. it's extra. anybody wants?
2019-08-25T03:17:37 < mawk> you tested it ?
2019-08-25T03:17:56 < catphish> what does it do?
2019-08-25T03:18:11 < mawk> controls an oven
2019-08-25T03:18:29 < mawk> a reflow oven
2019-08-25T03:18:32 < dongs> qyx: 3215 for 32khz, other shit depends on mhz
2019-08-25T03:18:41 < catphish> ah fun, i didn't get an oven yet
2019-08-25T03:18:56 < mawk> salcedo is using it with a regular oven he insulated
2019-08-25T03:18:59 < mawk> with golden foil
2019-08-25T03:19:27 < catphish> fun
2019-08-25T03:19:41 < catphish> those chinese pcb ovens aren't too expensive though
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2019-08-25T03:20:25 < catphish> sleeping time now
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2019-08-25T03:32:11 < Cracki> so... what's the benefit of semihosting when it messes with timely execution of interrupts, the whole target basically? http://info.atollic.com/hubfs/AppNotes/AN1602_HowToSemishoting.pdf
2019-08-25T03:33:16 < Cracki> or is that just a limitation of that particular implementation
2019-08-25T03:35:19 < salcedo> mawk: yeah it works. there is ONE mistake that i made in the design of the controller though.
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2019-08-25T03:36:17 < salcedo> the max31856 has a "data ready" pin that iirc goes low when there is data to read.
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2019-08-25T03:36:49 < salcedo> i connected it to the d1 mini's D0, which is the ONLY pin not able to be used as an interrupt on the D1 mini
2019-08-25T03:37:30 < salcedo> not a game killer though. just wasn't thinking.
2019-08-25T03:39:41 < mawk> ah
2019-08-25T03:39:45 < mawk> hm
2019-08-25T03:39:57 < mawk> you can just spin read it when you expect a reading
2019-08-25T03:40:15 < salcedo> used fancy chinesium oscilliscope to confirm everything works though.
2019-08-25T03:40:18 < mawk> or just jumperwire it
2019-08-25T03:41:04 < salcedo> now there's just more coding to do
2019-08-25T03:41:17 < salcedo> and finishing wiring up the oven lol
2019-08-25T03:41:42 < salcedo> started the oven project like 2 months ago? maybe 3. idonno.
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2019-08-25T05:19:43 < jly> how many bodies can you fit in the oven
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2019-08-25T05:35:05 < salcedo> depends on their size
2019-08-25T05:35:58 < salcedo> i'd imagine if you dehydrated a person completely, you would be able to fit them into the oven after grinding and pelletizing the carcass
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2019-08-25T07:07:38 < Cracki> has anyone here ever submitted errata to ST? their web form throws a 503 "tcp error" that trips up their javascript which expects JSON instead of an HTML response
2019-08-25T07:07:43 < Cracki> do they have email for this?
2019-08-25T07:12:15 < Cracki> incredible, how much BS there is on the internet about usb speeds in general and even for stm32 in particular
2019-08-25T07:12:59 < salcedo> we've p much reached peak blog-regurgitation for all things.
2019-08-25T07:13:22 < Cracki> except where they regurgitate something other than blogs
2019-08-25T07:13:35 < salcedo> what else is there to regurgitate?
2019-08-25T07:13:43 < Cracki> imagination and misunderstanding
2019-08-25T07:14:21 < salcedo> usually from some obscure part of the internet we're too lazy to search for... on some blog from 2009
2019-08-25T07:14:25 < Cracki> I've seen someone claim, for good old full speed usb bulk transfers, that you can only send one 64-byte packet per frame, which is obviously silly
2019-08-25T07:15:24 < salcedo> should i fill my blog up with re-posts?
2019-08-25T07:16:47 < salcedo> medium.com seems to have amplified it because lots of folks are straight up swaggerjacking older blogs to fill their medium with fluff that they then plaster all over linkedin
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2019-08-25T07:17:44 < salcedo> so i bought an e-reader to fill up with datasheets and stuff :)
2019-08-25T07:17:53 < salcedo> fuck the internet
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2019-08-25T07:18:27 < mawk> I posted on medium once
2019-08-25T07:18:30 < mawk> but with OC I swear
2019-08-25T07:19:04 < Cracki> are ereaders "ready" yet, i.e. large enough, easy enough to work with, do they keep the promise of "removing distractions" and focusing you on the work?
2019-08-25T07:19:32 < salcedo> the one i bought claims to at least remove all ads and "distractions"
2019-08-25T07:19:34 < Cracki> OC is... a dis-acquired taste. most people hate it.
2019-08-25T07:20:00 < salcedo> it's small
2019-08-25T07:20:11 < salcedo> only has 4GB storage too. but supposedly these all have microsd cards in them?
2019-08-25T07:20:21 < Cracki> FUCK ads. I watched something on android's youtube today. ADS everywhere. fuck them, I'm seeing none of that on a desktop with ublock origin
2019-08-25T07:20:33 < Cracki> yeh microSD is everywhere
2019-08-25T07:21:02 < Cracki> saw someone with a paper-like thingy a few days ago. had a stylus, looked very apple except it wasn't glossy
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2019-08-25T07:21:24 < salcedo> could have been a super expensive e-reader thing
2019-08-25T07:22:19 < Cracki> dat thing https://remarkable.com/
2019-08-25T07:22:27 < salcedo> all i use my phone for is the camera now.
2019-08-25T07:22:47 < mawk> when my kindle started showing ads I felled ripped off
2019-08-25T07:22:48 < Cracki> they make it look sexy but I so rarely use a pen/pencil that it's a little pointless
2019-08-25T07:22:52 < mawk> I mean I bought the thing, and now it shows ads
2019-08-25T07:22:59 < mawk> after a software update
2019-08-25T07:23:02 < Cracki> hehehe
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2019-08-25T07:24:14 < salcedo> that's why i went with a kobo
2019-08-25T07:24:28 < salcedo> though who knows - it might have its own weirdness wrt ads
2019-08-25T07:25:21 < salcedo> it'll never be connected to wifi unless i go to mcd's parking lot to grab my torrents
2019-08-25T07:26:14 < Cracki> the best thing I did for my writing is switch away from simple ball point towards "gel" ink pens
2019-08-25T07:27:21 < Cracki> they need nearly zero force to *move* and nearly zero force to make a mark
2019-08-25T07:27:48 < Cracki> it's still ball point but less globby, more flowy ink
2019-08-25T07:27:56 < salcedo> last generation who know how to write
2019-08-25T07:27:59 < salcedo> isn't it awesome?
2019-08-25T07:28:47 < Cracki> people see my signature and ask me if I'm a medical doctor. no, I just sat in a med lecture once or so.
2019-08-25T07:29:29 < Cracki> I don't write really, it's mostly sketching, doodling
2019-08-25T07:29:30 < salcedo> heh
2019-08-25T07:30:09 < salcedo> my signature is just a diagonal line with a slight variation in it that lets them know what i think about signatures.
2019-08-25T07:30:12 < salcedo> "meh"
2019-08-25T07:30:46 < Cracki> did you know a certain tribe, when they originally immigrated to the US, used to sign with a CIRCLE
2019-08-25T07:30:57 < salcedo> or if i have to sign on a POS device, i scribble a bunch of circles
2019-08-25T07:31:27 < Cracki> or rather the pencil pusher at the desk circled where they should sign, and they were incapable of signing, so the circle was good enough (same as with crosses)
2019-08-25T07:31:38 < salcedo> since afaik they are saved to .pcx files that get stored in /tmp waiting for a crontab to rm them
2019-08-25T07:33:58 < Cracki> pcx... that shakes loose some old memories from when I did turbo pascal on dos
2019-08-25T07:34:08 < Cracki> I think that's where I heard those letters last
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2019-08-25T09:22:41 < dongs> nice
2019-08-25T09:22:48 < dongs> i2c writes/reads/buffer reads work
2019-08-25T09:22:57 < dongs> using native gd i2c instead of buttbang
2019-08-25T09:26:22 < rajkosto> gd ?
2019-08-25T09:26:25 < dongs> gd32
2019-08-25T09:26:30 < rajkosto> it has a different i2c ?
2019-08-25T09:26:43 < dongs> yeah, its a bit diff from the broken f1 i2c
2019-08-25T09:26:46 < rajkosto> i use stm32 i2c but in polling mode only, its too complicated to figure out how to do in interrupt
2019-08-25T09:26:57 < rajkosto> many weird states
2019-08-25T09:26:58 < dongs> it actually works in polling mode.
2019-08-25T09:28:24 < rajkosto> and this doesnt ? https://pastebin.com/iDYGtHeG
2019-08-25T09:29:11 < dongs> i donno, lokos similar. im using thier new stdperiph which is renamed from ST's stuff presumably to avoid their legal aids
2019-08-25T09:29:48 < dongs>     i2c_start_on_bus(I2C0);
2019-08-25T09:29:48 < dongs>     i2c_master_addressing(I2C0, addr, I2C_TRANSMITTER);
2019-08-25T09:29:49 < dongs> etc
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2019-08-25T09:46:21 < dongs> hm fuck and now it broke
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2019-08-25T09:59:09 < dongs> ah oops. forgot to clear one flag
2019-08-25T10:02:44 < qyx> lulz
2019-08-25T10:02:54 < qyx> re: draftsight being payware now
2019-08-25T10:03:10 < qyx> it seems that there is only a paid version available for windows
2019-08-25T10:03:24 < qyx> but 2019 SP1 is available for fedora and ubuntu for free
2019-08-25T10:03:33 < qyx> https://www.3ds.com/products-services/draftsight-cad-software/download-draftsight/
2019-08-25T10:03:39 < dongs> 2018 is last free one.
2019-08-25T10:03:44 < qyx> no
2019-08-25T10:03:46 < qyx> I mean
2019-08-25T10:03:53 < qyx> yes, it was few months ago
2019-08-25T10:04:05 < qyx> now they are saying 2018 will cease to run and you have to istall 2019
2019-08-25T10:04:09 < dongs> right
2019-08-25T10:04:11 < qyx> my 2018 expired now
2019-08-25T10:04:12 < dongs> and start paying
2019-08-25T10:04:14 < qyx> no
2019-08-25T10:04:22 < qyx> DraftSight 2019 for Windows® is offered in paid versions only.
2019-08-25T10:04:25 < qyx> Mac and Linux users may access DraftSight 2019 Beta below at no cost. 
2019-08-25T10:04:53 < qyx> I'll try of course, downloading
2019-08-25T10:05:25 < qyx> it is 280MB instead of 200MB or so for the latest 2018
2019-08-25T10:05:34 < qyx> *instead of 600MB
2019-08-25T10:05:52 < qyx> probably it will be missing some cool new features which nobody uses
2019-08-25T10:07:28 < dongs> they realized lunixfags arent gonna pay for shit anyway
2019-08-25T10:07:55 < dongs> di/fm goapsy has been taken over by happyhardcore or something
2019-08-25T10:08:03 < dongs> they've been playing way too much shit with sped up vocals
2019-08-25T10:08:48 < zyp> sup?
2019-08-25T10:08:56 < qyx> idk I am using the trance channel
2019-08-25T10:09:12 < dongs> oh wait
2019-08-25T10:09:13 < dongs> waht hte fuck
2019-08-25T10:09:16 < dongs> thier interface is retarded
2019-08-25T10:09:28 < qyx> did you click 120%
2019-08-25T10:09:30 < dongs> i went to /goapsy but the dumb fucking player in bottom is tuned to nightcore
2019-08-25T10:09:41 < dongs> that would explain the sped ups hit
2019-08-25T10:10:40 < qyx> Unpacking draftsight (2019.1.0.2154) over (2018.3.0.4215)
2019-08-25T10:10:42 < qyx> we'll see
2019-08-25T10:11:35 < qyx> failed to write (No space left on device)
2019-08-25T10:11:39 < dongs> lmao
2019-08-25T10:11:42 < dongs> trolled by lunix
2019-08-25T10:11:45 < dongs> now your install is fukd
2019-08-25T10:15:27 < qyx> ok trolled
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2019-08-25T11:31:11 < Steffanx> Shouldn't you be on the streets Sadele?
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2019-08-25T13:26:28 < marble_visions> hi all, i've got myself a nucleo32 stm32l031k6, and a slave that does clock stretching.. i don't see how i can communicate to the stm32l031 that the slave stretches the clock
2019-08-25T13:27:00 < marble_visions> does that mean i have to poll the arbitration lost and/or other status bytes, to see when the slave has released the clock?
2019-08-25T13:28:59 < marble_visions> the ref man does not seem to talk about clock stretching when in master mode
2019-08-25T13:30:37 < dongs> qwhat slave is it. most retarded 'temperature' type sensors that stretch can just be addressed again after a delay
2019-08-25T13:32:44 < marble_visions> dongs, not the point of the question, but yes, i can do that as well
2019-08-25T13:43:45 < marble_visions> so nobody's doing stm32 i2c master with proper clock stretch honoring?
2019-08-25T13:44:07 < marble_visions> stm32l0*
2019-08-25T13:47:32 < qyx> I would say it works automagically
2019-08-25T13:47:38 < qyx> but I may be wrong
2019-08-25T13:56:48 < veverak> it did for me on L4
2019-08-25T13:58:44 < marble_visions> veverak: do you use the hal, ll or your own code?
2019-08-25T13:59:56 < veverak> hal
2019-08-25T14:02:16 < marble_visions> thanks, i'll do some more tests tonight
2019-08-25T14:02:53 < marble_visions> qyx: i thought so as well
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2019-08-25T15:10:22 < Steffanx> so hows the reader going catphish?
2019-08-25T15:10:31 < Steffanx> or writer. whatever it  was
2019-08-25T15:10:59 < catphish> my NFC device?
2019-08-25T15:12:02 < Steffanx> nah the floppy/disk rieader
2019-08-25T15:12:04 < Steffanx> reader
2019-08-25T15:12:24 < catphish> oh sorry, i got bogged down i trying to learn STM32 USB and got stuck :(
2019-08-25T15:12:32 < Steffanx> hehe
2019-08-25T15:12:44 < catphish> then i developed a drinking problem, and haven't picked it up for a while
2019-08-25T15:12:55 < catphish> i do intend to get back to that soon though, was thinking about it today strangely
2019-08-25T15:13:47 < catphish> the hardware is super neat, i just need to get USB working
2019-08-25T15:14:25 < marble_visions> catphish: do tell what you're doing
2019-08-25T15:14:33 < marble_visions> apart from drinking
2019-08-25T15:15:13 < catphish> marble_visions: i have a couple of projects, this project was to build a floppy drive controller to read / write unusual (specifically amiga) disks
2019-08-25T15:15:24 < catphish> (over USB)
2019-08-25T15:15:38 < marble_visions> nice
2019-08-25T15:15:44 < marble_visions> the others?
2019-08-25T15:16:19 < catphish> i'm building a car speedometer
2019-08-25T15:16:31 < Steffanx> You can always start a brewering in the meantime
2019-08-25T15:16:53 < catphish> and, there was a project i had last year that i semi-finished but never manufacturered - an NFC device for orienteering timing
2019-08-25T15:17:37 < marble_visions> the speedometer.. are you attaching it to a real car.. like the full odb2, can bus, etc experience?
2019-08-25T15:24:13 < catphish> marble_visions: it's for a classic car (in fact i'm working with someone who wants to develop something that can work with multiple classic cars), so no electrical interfaces, just an encoder and an analog display
2019-08-25T15:24:38 < catphish> well, an analog dial, and a digital distance readout
2019-08-25T15:26:05 < catphish> no prototype of that yet, it's mechanically complicated :)
2019-08-25T15:26:14 < catphish> this is my floppy drive controller https://i.imgur.com/Bk01EwL.jpg
2019-08-25T15:27:52 < marble_visions> very cool
2019-08-25T15:27:57 < marble_visions> about both
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2019-08-25T15:43:07 < qyx> I though that nfc thing is already working
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2019-08-25T16:10:11 < catphish> qyx: it is
2019-08-25T16:10:46 < catphish> prototype works fine, but needs some software, and weatherproof casing
2019-08-25T16:11:19 < catphish> never had the motivation to complete the final stages, usually the way with my projects
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2019-08-25T16:41:09 < dongs> < catphish> this is my floppy drive controller https://i.imgur.com/Bk01EwL.jpg
2019-08-25T16:41:20 < dongs> lol well i geuss thats one way to do it
2019-08-25T16:41:57 < dongs> is that a 48 or 64pin stm32
2019-08-25T16:42:03 < dongs> ah 48
2019-08-25T16:42:08 < dongs> just resoldered sdo fucking many times
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2019-08-25T16:58:00 < Thorn> some china fluxes leave this salt-like residue after cleaning with IPA
2019-08-25T16:58:12 < dongs> yeah that looks like tom66 a bit
2019-08-25T16:58:13 < Thorn> some kind of crystals
2019-08-25T16:58:44 < dongs> man tom66 was a legend
2019-08-25T16:59:36 < dongs> Last Activity: Jul 23, 2013 02:57 AM
2019-08-25T16:59:36 < dongs> Join Date: Aug 10, 2010
2019-08-25T16:59:37 < dongs> rip
2019-08-25T17:00:26 < Thorn> this gitkraken thing has invented yet anther way to trash my repos
2019-08-25T17:00:37 < Thorn> rebase master onto this branch -> fucking explosion
2019-08-25T17:01:08 < salcedo> dumb
2019-08-25T17:01:37 < salcedo> tig ftw
2019-08-25T17:02:13 < Thorn> good thing I pushed to a remote repo beforehand
2019-08-25T17:02:15 < Thorn> git reset --hard , git pull
2019-08-25T17:06:54 < Thorn> 1950 IoT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyrTgtPTz3M
2019-08-25T17:13:45 < dongs> wow. microfilm cookbook
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2019-08-25T17:29:51 < laurence_> tfw https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/3105/production/_108494521_hi056029300.jpg
2019-08-25T17:31:16 < qyx> Thorn: uff overengineered
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2019-08-25T17:31:37 -!- laurence_ is now known as Laurenceb_
2019-08-25T17:31:59 < Laurenceb_> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECxaAZEXoAEgJAB?format=jpg&name=small
2019-08-25T17:32:08 < Laurenceb_> btfo'd
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2019-08-25T17:32:41 < Laurenceb_> Elons campsite of latina fangirls will have to leave
2019-08-25T17:35:44 < Thorn> unplanned circus on ISS, nasa tv broadcasts: soyuz ms-13 redocking 27.08 03:00 utc, ms-14 docking 28.08 02:30 utc
2019-08-25T17:36:17 < dongs> did they figure out waht was fucked with the fist one?
2019-08-25T17:37:45 < Thorn> official version is kurs-np signal amplifier failure on the port where ms-14 tried to dock yesterday
2019-08-25T17:38:25 < qyx> so are they trying on a different one?
2019-08-25T17:39:06 < Thorn> they want to redock ms-13 onto the bad port and use the good one (where ms-13 is now) to try and dock ms-14
2019-08-25T17:40:04 < Ultrasauce> kinda weird that they cant do arm capture with soyuz
2019-08-25T17:40:16 < Thorn> ms-13 will be piloted by the entire expedition (3 people) when redocking so that if they can't dock they won't lose the ability to return to the earth
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2019-08-25T17:41:49 < Thorn> there're 2 incompatible docking systems in use, that includes everything from the adapters themselves to approach guidance systems, software, procedures, etc.
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2019-08-25T17:48:22 < catphish> dongs: the same design would work with a socket and a ribbon cable, but i like the direct attachment :)
2019-08-25T17:49:06 < catphish> that stm32 ended up with a bunch of nasty white crap stuck between its pins :( i think i tried to try it with a paper towel
2019-08-25T17:49:09 < catphish> *dry
2019-08-25T17:49:20 < zyp> haha
2019-08-25T17:49:29 < catphish> it looked a bit better after i took a toothbrush to it
2019-08-25T17:49:46 < Thorn> catphish: did you use IPA?
2019-08-25T17:49:50 < catphish> yes
2019-08-25T17:49:59 < Thorn> try a different flux then
2019-08-25T17:50:47 < catphish> i always go overboard on the flux, i think the white stuff if from paper towel i tried to use to wipe away the burnt flux
2019-08-25T17:50:57 < catphish> but it's ok, i don't normally make that much mess
2019-08-25T17:51:38 < catphish> here's the board https://i.imgur.com/LfTQltJ.jpg
2019-08-25T17:52:06 < dongs> did you combine that right angle header
2019-08-25T17:52:11 < dongs> from like 3 pieces of shit
2019-08-25T17:52:22 < catphish> yes, i did
2019-08-25T17:52:43 < catphish> because whoever i ordered the components from didnt have the full size right angle header :|
2019-08-25T17:52:45 < Thorn> https://blogs.nasa.gov/spacestation/2019/08/
2019-08-25T17:52:57 < catphish> if its shit and it works, it not shit, right? :)
2019-08-25T17:54:33 < dongs> wait
2019-08-25T17:54:37 < dongs> isnt flooppy disk 5V I/O
2019-08-25T17:54:46 < dongs> it cant be 3.3 is it?
2019-08-25T17:54:50 < catphish> it's all open collector
2019-08-25T17:55:02 < dongs> so you just pullup on stm?
2019-08-25T17:55:06 < catphish> yes
2019-08-25T17:55:09 < dongs> lel..
2019-08-25T17:55:14 < catphish> and 5v tolerant pins to be safe
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2019-08-25T17:55:30 < catphish> stm32 is aweome like that
2019-08-25T17:55:50 < catphish> looks better after a clean up with a toothbrush :) https://i.imgur.com/TEDFmct.jpg
2019-08-25T17:56:13 < Thorn> I've had problems with builtin pullups on inputs connected to pushbuttons
2019-08-25T17:56:14 < catphish> lowest component count ever :)
2019-08-25T17:56:15 < Thorn> crosstalk from SPI most likely
2019-08-25T17:56:17 < Steffanx> Hah a 1000 times indeed
2019-08-25T17:57:30 < Thorn> there's still crap between pins and combined with weak pullups it will likely lead to failures, maybe in humid weather etc.
2019-08-25T17:58:03 < catphish> i agree entirely, whatever that white crap is, it won't get near any production run i do of this :)
2019-08-25T17:58:37 < catphish> just need to figure out how to do USB, i'll start over and hopefully i'll get it this time
2019-08-25T17:58:46 < catphish> plus i'll hassle you guys with questions every 15 seconds
2019-08-25T17:58:53 < Steffanx> Or just pic something that works?
2019-08-25T17:58:59 < Steffanx> Pick
2019-08-25T17:59:16 < catphish> something that works?
2019-08-25T17:59:51 < Steffanx> USB stuff
2019-08-25T18:00:13 < catphish> well one option is certainly use some existing libraries
2019-08-25T18:00:15 < Steffanx> I assume your were using the bare registers yourself?
2019-08-25T18:00:19 < catphish> yes
2019-08-25T18:00:31 < catphish> not totally sure where to begin with that though, because i've always done it "the hard way"
2019-08-25T18:00:32 < dongs> just use laks
2019-08-25T18:00:47 < dongs> you can even build njust the usb shit as c++ and wrap it into extern "C"
2019-08-25T18:01:13 < catphish> who or what is laks?
2019-08-25T18:01:37 < dongs> zyp's leet USB stuff
2019-08-25T18:01:37 < catphish> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/
2019-08-25T18:01:40 < catphish> ah yes
2019-08-25T18:01:48 < dongs> yes that
2019-08-25T18:01:55 < catphish> or i could use STs stuff
2019-08-25T18:02:06 < catphish> which has been tempting
2019-08-25T18:02:11 < dongs> mass stoRAGE?
2019-08-25T18:02:13 < dongs> you can try i guess
2019-08-25T18:02:21 < dongs> imagine having your shitty floppy coming up as USB storage
2019-08-25T18:02:27 < dongs> with super slow access time
2019-08-25T18:02:35 < catphish> i want 2 USB endpoints, the first will be mass storage, yes
2019-08-25T18:02:51 < catphish> super slow mass storage, but cool :)
2019-08-25T18:03:09 < catphish> step 1 is to be able to DD a floppy image to and from mass storage
2019-08-25T18:03:58 < zyp> MSC BBB is easy
2019-08-25T18:04:14 < zyp> the class itself is just a thin wrapper layer around SCSI commands
2019-08-25T18:04:25 < catphish> ideal
2019-08-25T18:04:59 < zyp> my nfc reader uses some hacked up MSC code, but I haven't added it to laks itself
2019-08-25T18:05:21 < Thorn> why is there no standard class where the host sends file level commands (open, read, write, close, mkdir etc.) and the device handles the filesystem by itself?
2019-08-25T18:05:40 < zyp> there are several, MTP is the common one
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2019-08-25T18:07:01 < dongs> oh gawd MTP
2019-08-25T18:07:01 < dongs> fuck off
2019-08-25T18:07:03 < Thorn> what are the others?
2019-08-25T18:07:13 < zyp> well, PTP
2019-08-25T18:07:14 < zyp> :p
2019-08-25T18:07:26 < zyp> idk, I think there's a few others doing a similar thing
2019-08-25T18:07:44 < dongs> mtp is awfullllll
2019-08-25T18:08:03 < dongs> like i dont even wanna know how much trafic browsing a 2000+images DCIM folder generates
2019-08-25T18:08:14 < zyp> yeah, I didn't say it was good, just that it exists
2019-08-25T18:08:21 < dongs> i know it takes  > 5 minutes to delete those after move
2019-08-25T18:08:58 < zyp> another option is running a network file system over usb-ethernet or something :p
2019-08-25T18:09:49 < Thorn> we headr you like layers so we put layers inside layers
2019-08-25T18:10:51 < Thorn> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBmKLYoggkA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElhHt3NCJNY
2019-08-25T18:10:51 < catphish> be microsoft. invent shit protocol. ask intel to make faster usb. make sure people buy computers with latest windows 10. profit
2019-08-25T18:11:57 < dongs> catphish: just looked at floppy pinout, wtf
2019-08-25T18:12:03 < dongs> is it like stepper motor - like control?
2019-08-25T18:12:06 < dongs> step/dir or osmething
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2019-08-25T18:12:16 < catphish> dongs: that's exactly what it is, to change track
2019-08-25T18:12:20 < dongs> and the data is what, serial or something?
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2019-08-25T18:12:36 < dongs> man thats wild stuff
2019-08-25T18:12:38 < catphish> you use the stepper to change track, then wait for the data to flow in
2019-08-25T18:12:49 < dongs> what does the data look like tho
2019-08-25T18:12:53 < dongs> do you sample it on some clock or wat
2019-08-25T18:13:32 < catphish> it's self clocking, but yes
2019-08-25T18:13:41 < dongs> oh its manchester or someshit?
2019-08-25T18:13:51 < catphish> MFM
2019-08-25T18:15:12 < catphish> on the disk, there's a track, each time the track reverses polarity, the disk head generated a digital pulse
2019-08-25T18:15:22 < catphish> essentially the data is encoded in the time between those pulses
2019-08-25T18:18:00 < catphish> seems i've lost my previous attempt at USB code so i guess i'll start over :)
2019-08-25T18:21:04 < catphish> is there a super low cost way to add ram to an stm32 by the way? 
2019-08-25T18:21:30 < dongs> yeah, use one with lots of sram
2019-08-25T18:21:33 < dongs> or use the cheap F4 with sdram
2019-08-25T18:21:38 < catphish> i often find i'd benefit from a few hundred KB with a serial interface
2019-08-25T18:21:54 < catphish> i guess basic sdram could work
2019-08-25T18:22:00 < catphish> parallel interface is annoying though
2019-08-25T18:22:02 < Thorn> there was some chinese serial ram
2019-08-25T18:22:08 < catphish> but again, being cheap
2019-08-25T18:23:14 < dongs> yeah i found some serial sram for zyp
2019-08-25T18:23:18 < dongs> chinagirl had it, and it seemed cheap
2019-08-25T18:23:25 < dongs> ~megabytes range iirc?
2019-08-25T18:23:29 < catphish> for this project for example, it would be useful to have 256KB+
2019-08-25T18:23:37 < catphish> ideally half a megabyte
2019-08-25T18:24:56 < Thorn> http://esp32.de/lyontek/pSRAM/LY68S6400_0.2.pdf 
2019-08-25T18:25:09 < Thorn> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/RAM_Lyontek-Inc-LY68L6400SLIT_C261881.html
2019-08-25T18:25:24 < catphish> well that's beautiful
2019-08-25T18:25:48 < catphish> can i buy it?
2019-08-25T18:26:05 < catphish> i guess type Pseudo-SRAM into ali
2019-08-25T18:26:25 < Thorn> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/RAM_VTI7064MSME_C139966.html
2019-08-25T18:26:41 < catphish> well that's decent :)
2019-08-25T18:26:43 < catphish> thanks
2019-08-25T18:27:43 < dongs> damn thats hceap as fuck
2019-08-25T18:27:48 < catphish> indeed
2019-08-25T18:27:51 < dongs> teh 1st one
2019-08-25T18:28:35 < catphish> i don't need it for usb mass storage, but when i start looking at storing the raw timings of the bits, i'll need more RAM than an STM32 can reasonably provide, or stream the data over USB, which i dislike
2019-08-25T18:28:42 < dongs> did we ever figure out if QSPI on newer F4s supports read and write or just reaD?
2019-08-25T18:29:12 < catphish> my project is described here if anyone cares https://github.com/catphish/amiga-floppy
2019-08-25T18:29:19 < catphish> now, back to USB :)
2019-08-25T18:32:32 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-WMxr2B2H0 quality musics for change
2019-08-25T18:34:14 < Thorn> lol it's 1.8V only
2019-08-25T18:34:44 < dongs> whats 1.8V?
2019-08-25T18:34:52 < Thorn> ly68
2019-08-25T18:35:10 < Laurenceb_> what that?
2019-08-25T18:35:19 < dongs> is it?
2019-08-25T18:35:32 < dongs> i see Single Supply Voltage:
2019-08-25T18:35:32 < dongs>  VCC=2.7 to 3.6V
2019-08-25T18:35:39 < dongs> where do you see 1.8?
2019-08-25T18:36:13 < Thorn> oh that was ly68s. ly68l which is in lcsc is 3.3
2019-08-25T18:36:27 < Thorn> problem solved
2019-08-25T18:37:19 < Thorn> actually lscs has ly68s too but half the size https://lcsc.com/product-detail/RAM_Lyontek-Inc-LY68S3200SLT_C261882.html
2019-08-25T18:37:31 < Thorn> and it's 1.8V
2019-08-25T18:46:14 < dongs> https://www.altium.com/concord oooh.
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2019-08-25T18:47:41 < dongs> wait is this just a git for altidumb
2019-08-25T18:48:15 < dongs> ah no still svn
2019-08-25T18:48:45 < dongs> does anyone acutally use version controlled altidumb projects?
2019-08-25T18:48:58 < dongs> i just mnake a copy of entire thing and rename it rev0->rev1 or whatever
2019-08-25T19:03:06 < Cracki> marble_visions, look up clock stretching. it's an inherent feature. the i2c master must notice the held clock and wait for the edge (when the slave releases the clock line)
2019-08-25T19:05:05 < Cracki> Thorn, look up "smartgit". it's not as smart as it could be but it has proper diff presentation (side by side, not this -+ bullshit)
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2019-08-25T19:09:28 < Thorn> the reason I'm still using gitkraken is excellent diff display with several options
2019-08-25T19:09:52 < Thorn> it fails miserably when I try to make it do something non-trivial with the repo
2019-08-25T19:10:27 < Thorn> if I simply view diffs, add chunks to index, commit and push/pull it's working pretty great
2019-08-25T19:11:38 < qyx> catphish: just use L4 with 640KB of sram
2019-08-25T19:11:40 < qyx> not even $$$
2019-08-25T19:11:54 < Thorn> L4+
2019-08-25T19:13:31 < catphish> qyx: interesting, hadn't seen that
2019-08-25T19:14:24 < qyx> or was it L4+ as Thorn says
2019-08-25T19:14:24 < Cracki> has gitkraken learned how to show git status for *just* a subdirectory yet?
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2019-08-25T19:26:31 < catphish> well i might try one of those for the next prototype once i figure out USB, unless they change the USB peripheral, then screw that :)
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2019-08-25T19:32:51 < Steffanx> lol
2019-08-25T19:37:06 < Laurenceb_> dongs has been busy https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-49464546
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2019-08-25T19:40:13 < Cracki> can they just fucking stop bullying other countries?
2019-08-25T19:40:44 < Cracki> they shouldn't even have nukes
2019-08-25T19:42:19 < Cracki> if dubya invaded them and looked for WMDs, he'd have found a bunch
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2019-08-25T20:00:30 < kakimir> how many watts phone can pump out power from usb-c?
2019-08-25T20:00:45 < Cracki> ask the battery
2019-08-25T20:00:52 < kakimir> not much!
2019-08-25T20:01:08 < Cracki> much but not for long?
2019-08-25T20:01:19 < kakimir> once I operated my phone from lab supply for maybe a month
2019-08-25T20:01:37 < kakimir> stick some small wires between battery terminals
2019-08-25T20:01:51 < kakimir> dialed 4.2v in
2019-08-25T20:02:19 < kakimir> momentarelly it took more than half amperes
2019-08-25T20:02:41 < kakimir> display closed
2019-08-25T20:02:45 < Cracki> what was the voltage before applying current?
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2019-08-25T20:45:58 < catphish> ah USB_BCDR_DPPU, my least favourite register strikes again, i always forget to set it, nowhere in the reference manual are you told you have to enable it, but you do :)
2019-08-25T20:46:22 < catphish> i guess it's not needed if you use a hardware DP pullup
2019-08-25T20:47:03 < catphish> at least my USB is alive now :) will start reading up how to configure the descriptors
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2019-08-25T21:22:15 < catphish> nice tutorial https://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/USB-Tutorial_mit_STM32 shame i don't understand a word of it
2019-08-25T21:24:29 < mawk> pay Cracki for translation
2019-08-25T21:25:52 < catphish> google's doing a reasonable job luckily
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2019-08-25T21:30:06 < antto> all your USB are belong to us
2019-08-25T21:36:24 < salcedo> we are all unique and special
2019-08-25T21:39:35 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2a02:810d:1540:2448:6504:af81:65b5:5a5d] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-25T21:40:48 < kakimir> all of us are not enumerating
2019-08-25T21:42:51 < salcedo> kakimir is dehumanizing. we are all unique and special.
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2019-08-25T21:51:02 < Cracki> and just drops of water at room temperature
2019-08-25T21:52:00 < Cracki> catphish, there's also http://www.usbmadesimple.co.uk/index.html and https://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb1.shtml
2019-08-25T21:52:14 < Cracki> not stm32-specific
2019-08-25T21:52:43 < Cracki> also https://doc.lagout.org/science/0_Computer%20Science/9_Others/9_Misc/USB%20Complete%20The%20Developer%27s%20Guide%204th%20Ed.pdf
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2019-08-25T21:53:53 < Cracki> I myself fuck around with what cubemx generates for me but maybe you would care for some laks
2019-08-25T21:54:20 < catphish> i'm going it alone right now
2019-08-25T21:54:26 < catphish> if/when i fail, i'll check out laks
2019-08-25T21:55:33 < Cracki> note that the teutonic tutorial's VCP actually attaches to the UART and does baud rate, parity, flow control signals and everything
2019-08-25T21:56:03 < Cracki> you do want the double buffering (operating mode and flags in stm32) if you want speed
2019-08-25T21:59:36 < karlp> double buffering where?
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2019-08-25T22:41:39 < salcedo> https://git.qoto.org/protowaffle/protowaffle-one-datasheet/-/jobs/206/artifacts/file/ProtowaffleOneDatasheet.pdf
2019-08-25T22:42:07 < salcedo> he has a bunch that he'll start selling soon. but will give some away if anybody wants.
2019-08-25T22:42:23 < salcedo> also told him tqfp version would be awesome
2019-08-25T22:56:01 < Cracki> wat
2019-08-25T22:56:53 < Cracki> audiophool breakout board?
2019-08-25T22:57:10 < Cracki> made from 24 karat gold?
2019-08-25T23:01:46 < salcedo> there is a perfect surface silver option for only an additional $5499
2019-08-25T23:03:00 < Cracki> it is a cute pattern, I give him that
2019-08-25T23:06:10 < Cracki> https://storage.gra5.cloud.ovh.net/v1/AUTH_011f6e315d3744d498d93f6fa0d9b5ee/qotoorg/media_attachments/files/002/745/347/original/50a0353c2f31f18e.gif
2019-08-25T23:06:27 < Steffanx> lol
2019-08-25T23:09:10 < salcedo> holy shit excessive solder batman
2019-08-25T23:09:49 < rajkosto> its not
2019-08-25T23:09:58 < rajkosto> you need it blobby like that to make bridges
2019-08-25T23:10:48 < salcedo> uhuh
2019-08-25T23:11:30 < Cracki> booooi I didn't even see that at first
2019-08-25T23:27:56 < Steffanx> Still excessive.
2019-08-25T23:32:03 < rajkosto> ok did you notice theres solder resist between the pads
2019-08-25T23:32:27 < rajkosto> that means you need to have enough solder, not use too much flux, and not too much temperature so that the solder bridges the gap without retreating to the pads themselves
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--- Day changed Mon Aug 26 2019
2019-08-26T00:01:06 < PaulFertser> Why do regular cars use synchromesh gearboxes and not dogteeth? They're good enough for all kinds of motor bikes, good enough for drag racing cars, why are not they used on regular cars?
2019-08-26T00:01:33 < specing> cheaper, more reliable?
2019-08-26T00:03:19 < PaulFertser> Synchros are added complexity, how can that be cheaper?
2019-08-26T00:03:40 < PaulFertser> Also, I would imagine robotic dogbox would work just as well as DSG but would be way cheaper.
2019-08-26T00:03:45 < PaulFertser> What am I missing here?
2019-08-26T00:07:00 < Cracki> https://www.carthrottle.com/post/wez7853/
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2019-08-26T00:08:48 < PaulFertser> Cracki: "However, dog ring gearboxes are difficult to use on the road in traffic or around town and without quick gear changes at the correct engine revs the dog teeth with wear out quickly. " if that was true, why are motor bikers ok with using dogboxes?
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2019-08-26T00:09:05 < Cracki> ask motor bikers?
2019-08-26T00:09:12 < Cracki> dunno, maybe they like the simplicity
2019-08-26T00:09:21 < Cracki> maybe they like gnashing teeth
2019-08-26T00:10:26 < Cracki> or maybe it's the speed
2019-08-26T00:10:39 < Cracki> >The advantages of having a dog ring gearbox are that gear changes can be completed very quickly by briefly blipping the throttle with minimal use of the clutch
2019-08-26T00:11:02 < PaulFertser> I am a motor biker, I do not find it difficult to ride in city even though I have to constantly change having just 10 hp engine.
2019-08-26T00:12:06 < PaulFertser> (change meaning shift gears)
2019-08-26T00:12:25 < PaulFertser> So a robotic dogbox could be shifting as fast as a DSG for half the price.
2019-08-26T00:12:49 < Cracki> "robotic"?
2019-08-26T00:13:05 < PaulFertser> And quickshifting (by blipping the throttle) is not mandatory, you can shift just as usual car driver does.
2019-08-26T00:13:13 < Cracki> I think I've heard some mech engs talk about research and development surrounding gear shifting
2019-08-26T00:13:38 < Cracki> where electronics control everything basically
2019-08-26T00:13:42 < PaulFertser> Robotic is where a computer operates the clutch and gear shifts.
2019-08-26T00:13:45 < catphish> i tried a clutchless shift on my bike yesterday, it didn't work :(
2019-08-26T00:14:17 < PaulFertser> catphish: how can that be possible? What exactly did you do (what rev, speed, throttle etc) and what happened?
2019-08-26T00:14:37 < catphish> PaulFertser: i closed the throttle, tried to shift up, lever woudn't move
2019-08-26T00:15:11 < emeb_mac> well duh - you're engine braking then - the tranny is under load and won't shift
2019-08-26T00:15:17 < PaulFertser> catphish: you should have started pulling the lever first, then blipped the throttle, the lever would move up the moment you do it.
2019-08-26T00:15:31 < catphish> that makes perfect sense :)
2019-08-26T00:16:08 < catphish> i would indeed have been engine braking, i was trying to do it slowly to start with to get a feel for i
2019-08-26T00:16:09 < catphish> *i
2019-08-26T00:16:10 < catphish> *it
2019-08-26T00:17:31 < catphish> i've been tempted to get a new bike recently, apparantly the new ones automatically cut the engine load automatically when you try to shift
2019-08-26T00:17:57 < PaulFertser> catphish: and if you ever decide to try downshifting, you can close the throttle first (so that it would be engine braking), then push the lever (not too hard of course), then open the throttle.
2019-08-26T00:17:58 < catphish> i've seen third party mods to do it too
2019-08-26T00:18:36 < catphish> not that my bike needs to be any faster
2019-08-26T00:20:25 < emeb> my latest car has a CVT - that's a weird experience after growing up on regular stick & auto.
2019-08-26T00:20:59 < PaulFertser> Was it keeping the engine revs constant during acceleration?
2019-08-26T00:22:25 < PaulFertser> I've read some car manufacturers introduced artificial steps in their CVTs to avoid that "weird feeling".
2019-08-26T00:23:12 < catphish> i didn't know any cars had CVT
2019-08-26T00:23:24 < catphish> unless you include gearless electric
2019-08-26T00:23:44 < catphish> which isn't really CVT but probably feels the same
2019-08-26T00:24:17 < catphish> what kind of sadist designed these USB APIs :|
2019-08-26T00:24:24 < Steffanx> Emeb bought some old Volvo or DAF?
2019-08-26T00:24:27 < bitmask> hmm, should I go with 3mm acrylic for the front plate or 2mm impact modified 
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2019-08-26T00:25:03 < catphish> 25mm MDF
2019-08-26T00:25:18 < PaulFertser> Nissan Qashqai was a popular CVT car.
2019-08-26T00:25:36 < fenugrec> mazda's MPV ? also had CVT for a long time
2019-08-26T00:25:59 < catphish> CVT seems cool, but i assume it sucks
2019-08-26T00:26:13 < catphish> else it would be in everything
2019-08-26T00:26:23 < BrainDamage> cvt tends to be inefficient
2019-08-26T00:26:33 < BrainDamage> and weights more than a reg transmission
2019-08-26T00:26:49 < PaulFertser> catphish: HID descriptors suck even more
2019-08-26T00:27:27 < catphish> PaulFertser: i'm nowhere near that yet :) i'm just trying to set up my configuration endpoint
2019-08-26T00:28:14 < fenugrec> *not MPV at all, it was the Rogue
2019-08-26T00:28:46 < BrainDamage> I've actually toyed a bit with the idea of an electric cvt on my bike
2019-08-26T00:29:02 < BrainDamage> mostly because I could seal up things and get less problems with mud, etc
2019-08-26T00:29:23 < catphish> is transmission even necessary on an electric bike?
2019-08-26T00:29:46 < fenugrec> just take a snowmobile CVT or such
2019-08-26T00:29:53 < BrainDamage> I didn't say it was an electric bike
2019-08-26T00:29:58 < BrainDamage> it's a regular bike
2019-08-26T00:30:05 < catphish> that would be ideal i guess
2019-08-26T00:30:19 < BrainDamage> and I'd fit a combo of motor at the back and generator at the pedal shaft
2019-08-26T00:30:25 < BrainDamage> and ditch all the gearing
2019-08-26T00:30:27 < catphish> i still want to build an EV, but no idea where to begin, my mechanical skills are lacking :)
2019-08-26T00:31:12 < catphish> probably with a buggy type vehicle
2019-08-26T00:31:17 < Thorn> is there anything similar to a fuel cell currently available to civilians?
2019-08-26T00:31:42 < BrainDamage> do you absolutely need the no moving parts?
2019-08-26T00:31:50 < BrainDamage> because a simple generator will suffice
2019-08-26T00:32:21 < Thorn> I want fewer moving parts than an internal combustion engine + generator set has lol
2019-08-26T00:32:48 < catphish> how about a traditional stream engine?
2019-08-26T00:32:57 < emeb> Steffanx: nah - 2016 Honda Fit
2019-08-26T00:33:05 < catphish> *steam
2019-08-26T00:33:18 < BrainDamage> if you don't care about the shit efficiency, peltier + a burner
2019-08-26T00:33:29 < Thorn> catphish: I'd like to see that on a muiltirotor
2019-08-26T00:34:27 < catphish> Thorn: that would be a work of art
2019-08-26T00:34:48 < PaulFertser> DSG seems to be not making any sense for regular cars and yet it's used in plenty. Why...
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2019-08-26T00:35:08 < BrainDamage> remember that all designs have a lot of inertia
2019-08-26T00:35:22 < BrainDamage> if something is tried and tested, it takes a while to be replaced
2019-08-26T00:36:02 < PaulFertser> A rather unusual (for motor bikes) CVT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Friendly_Transmission
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2019-08-26T00:37:38 < Thorn> wat is this https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3000-Watt-3kW-Hydrogen-Fuel-Cell_50034483018.html
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2019-08-26T00:38:21 < Thorn> 4kg, 230mm, 3kW, 24V
2019-08-26T00:38:35 < Thorn> and $1500 (qty 100)
2019-08-26T00:38:43 < BrainDamage> 36L/min hydrogen ...
2019-08-26T00:39:10 < Thorn> are these used anywhere?
2019-08-26T00:39:37 < BrainDamage> also, if it runs with normal air as oxidizer, the electrodes tend to foul
2019-08-26T00:40:20 < Thorn> how much H2 fits into a small COPV
2019-08-26T00:42:02 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_tank
2019-08-26T00:42:18 < karlp> COPV?
2019-08-26T00:42:30 < BrainDamage> composite overwrapped pressure vessel
2019-08-26T00:42:48 < Thorn> aka Elon's fireworks
2019-08-26T00:43:11 < BrainDamage> see the link, it has pressure ratings for the various types
2019-08-26T00:43:43 < Thorn> if such a multirotor crashes it's going to be spectacular
2019-08-26T00:45:12 < BrainDamage> >Bonfire test where the tank is exposed to an open fire.
2019-08-26T00:45:15 < BrainDamage> >Bullet test where live ammunition is fired at the tank.
2019-08-26T00:47:57 < marble_visions> Cracki: yep, saw what clock stretching is, was not sure where on the stack i had to take care of it.. hw comes in tomorrow, will see what the i2c peripheral does on its own
2019-08-26T00:49:40 < Thorn> what kind of weight can a 3kW multirotor lift?
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2019-08-26T00:50:14 < bitmask> hmm, can you add pads to the side of a pcb?
2019-08-26T00:50:35 < bitmask> kinda like having a plated hole but just on the edge
2019-08-26T00:51:55 < salcedo> like a castillated hole?
2019-08-26T00:52:05 < bitmask> dunno what that is
2019-08-26T00:52:12 < salcedo> yea p sure it's called a castillated hole
2019-08-26T00:52:17 < BrainDamage> castellated
2019-08-26T00:52:23 < bitmask> like on the esp8266 boards
2019-08-26T00:52:30 < bitmask> half a hole to solder the board onto another
2019-08-26T00:52:31 < BrainDamage> https://duckduckgo.com/?kp=-2&q=castellated+hole&iax=images&ia=images
2019-08-26T00:52:38 < bitmask> yeaaa
2019-08-26T00:52:43 < Thorn> or plated half-holes
2019-08-26T00:53:00 < bitmask> does it have to be a hole shape?
2019-08-26T00:53:19 < Cracki> no, they can plate anything
2019-08-26T00:53:34 < salcedo> they can even plate little pepe frogs
2019-08-26T00:53:42 < Cracki> or black suns
2019-08-26T00:53:45 < bitmask> I want to solder leds to the side of a board, the leds themselves have castellated holes so im trying to figure out the best way to do this
2019-08-26T00:54:01 < Cracki> what led has castellated holes?
2019-08-26T00:54:03 < salcedo> the edge of the board you mean?
2019-08-26T00:54:06 < bitmask> yea
2019-08-26T00:54:07 < bitmask> the edge
2019-08-26T00:54:11 < salcedo> smt leds?
2019-08-26T00:54:14 < bitmask> yes
2019-08-26T00:54:32 < salcedo> you could just run pads to the edge of the board but not on the actual edge
2019-08-26T00:54:46 < bitmask> yea thats what im thinking is the easiest option
2019-08-26T00:54:46 < salcedo> and do some solder acrobatics
2019-08-26T00:55:13 < salcedo> though if you did castillated holes it would also work just fine
2019-08-26T00:55:37 < bitmask> I think the shape for that would be difficult, a castellated hole perpendicular to another hole
2019-08-26T00:56:04 < salcedo> the castillations would be little fill zones for solder
2019-08-26T00:56:25 < bitmask> oh actually that wont work
2019-08-26T00:56:32 < catphish> Thorn: i'd think quite a lot
2019-08-26T00:56:37 < bitmask> i'll just keep the pads on the normal parts of the board
2019-08-26T00:56:47 < catphish> Thorn: though i realise that's a useless answer :)
2019-08-26T00:57:08 < salcedo> bitmask: are you in USA ?
2019-08-26T00:57:10 < bitmask> yes
2019-08-26T00:57:13 < bitmask> why
2019-08-26T00:57:18 < salcedo> want the extra controller i made?
2019-08-26T00:57:24 < salcedo> for ovenz
2019-08-26T00:57:34 < bitmask> sure, got any details on it?
2019-08-26T00:57:58 < salcedo> everything is in git repos but i need to commit latest changes
2019-08-26T00:58:06 < bitmask> link pweese
2019-08-26T00:58:10 < salcedo> the hw, firmware, frontend, etc.
2019-08-26T00:58:25 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9DaHIecIc4
2019-08-26T00:58:41 < salcedo> it's a small pcb with terminal blocks and a wemos d1 mini
2019-08-26T00:58:50 < bitmask> sounds cool
2019-08-26T00:59:00 < salcedo> controls up to 4 "things" be they solid state relays for heating elements, fans, whatever.
2019-08-26T00:59:10 < salcedo> 1 terminal block for K type thermocouple
2019-08-26T00:59:13 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FExpr1wRf5U
2019-08-26T00:59:14 < salcedo> max31856 on board
2019-08-26T00:59:40 < salcedo> the d1 gets wifi and serves up a vue.js app
2019-08-26T00:59:53 < salcedo> with a fancy real-time chart of the temperature / reflow profile
2019-08-26T01:00:07 < salcedo> CRUD reflow profiles - saves them to spi flash.
2019-08-26T01:00:43 < salcedo> minimum boards were 5 from jlcpcb. i ordered double of the BOM incase i made a mistake soldering 14tssop.
2019-08-26T01:00:50 < salcedo> it ended up being way easier than i thought it would
2019-08-26T01:01:04 < bitmask> sounds good
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2019-08-26T01:01:13 < salcedo> i think i solder tssop better than 1206 passives lol
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2019-08-26T01:01:38 < bitmask> Ive been wanting to try soldering various things but dont want to waste them and I dont have a project/pcb to even try
2019-08-26T01:02:03 < salcedo> this thing is already built. you'd need to buy a $20 toaster oven and some relays and shit to make it into a full thing.
2019-08-26T01:02:08 < salcedo> then you can solder all kinds of stuff
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2019-08-26T01:02:31 < bitmask> great
2019-08-26T01:02:47 < Thorn> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXDM0RB_LeM
2019-08-26T01:02:50 < salcedo> tested it. everything works even though i'm only like 1/4 way into building the whole interface.
2019-08-26T01:03:01 < salcedo> so far i can use curl to turn elements on/off lol
2019-08-26T01:03:03 < salcedo> read the temperature
2019-08-26T01:03:10 < salcedo> plot it on the chart
2019-08-26T01:03:30 < bitmask> thats half the battle
2019-08-26T01:03:50 < salcedo> yea like all the stuff that's supposed to work, works. the rest is just making it pretty.
2019-08-26T01:03:55 < bitmask> toaster ovens are only $20? used or new
2019-08-26T01:04:01 < kakimir> encore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-WMxr2B2H0
2019-08-26T01:04:05 < salcedo> $20 walmart special. new.
2019-08-26T01:04:16 < bitmask> nice, I have relays already that should be fine
2019-08-26T01:04:38 < bitmask> 5V?
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2019-08-26T01:06:24 < salcedo> the gpios on the d1 are 3.3v into mosfets
2019-08-26T01:06:36 < salcedo> so 5v at the terminal blocks to trigger the relays
2019-08-26T01:06:41 < bitmask> right
2019-08-26T01:06:42 < bitmask> ok
2019-08-26T01:06:44 < bitmask> good
2019-08-26T01:07:23 < salcedo> https://postimg.cc/JtqgV98J
2019-08-26T01:07:51 < salcedo> don't let your ocd go wild on the terminal blocks. the plastic housings have a lot of play. lol
2019-08-26T01:08:12 < bitmask> yea I know what you are talking about
2019-08-26T01:08:18 < bitmask> they always spin
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2019-08-26T01:19:26 <@aandrew> heh
2019-08-26T01:19:35 <@aandrew> phoenix (genuine phoenix) are the only terminal blocks I buy
2019-08-26T01:19:51 <@aandrew> the cheap ones will crack the retaining screw and then they're useless
2019-08-26T01:20:33 <@aandrew> and when I do that (like your pic) I actually connect them all -- they will slide into one another with a little slot and then you have a 1x10 
2019-08-26T01:20:46 <@aandrew> the two-terminal ones are notorious for twisting like you show
2019-08-26T01:21:31 <@aandrew> so with the layout you just place them, measuring center-to-center to make sure you are at 5.08mm or whatever the measure is supposed to be for the particular ones you're using
2019-08-26T01:21:48 < salcedo> pretty sure these are phoenix
2019-08-26T01:22:13 < Thorn> moneyed westerners
2019-08-26T01:22:14 < salcedo> "phoenix"
2019-08-26T01:28:35 < Cracki> those in the pic have those dovetails so you could have put them together in a single row
2019-08-26T01:36:46 < salcedo> yea originally i was gonna do one large block instead of seperate ones
2019-08-26T01:36:51 < salcedo> not sure why i changed my mind
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2019-08-26T01:50:46 < Cracki> a bit of spacing, I can see the appeal
2019-08-26T01:57:56 <@aandrew> not for 2-pin ones, I'd have done them as a block for the reason your pic shows
2019-08-26T02:01:56 < Cracki> AN4879 says vbus sensing has "PA9 natively dedicated to VBUS sensing". does that apply to chips with OTG? I don't see that mentioned in the F303CB reference manual or data sheet, which is just usb device
2019-08-26T02:08:13 < Thorn> yes iirc only dwc_otg has this vbus sensing
2019-08-26T02:09:09 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu3oy6_v73M
2019-08-26T02:17:53 < catphish> this l433 has lots of stuff about bus voltages but i don't know what it does
2019-08-26T02:18:03 < catphish> PS2DET: DM pull-up detection status
2019-08-26T02:19:33 < catphish> that's all on the data lines actually
2019-08-26T02:19:50 < Thorn> catphish: https://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb2.shtml
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2019-08-26T02:20:32 < catphish> yeh, not sure why i thought it was to do with vbus, this chip only has DP and DM connections afaik
2019-08-26T02:21:15 < catphish> i think i'm finally starting to understand this stm32 USB, managed to successfull receive a setup packet :)
2019-08-26T02:21:42 < catphish> mostly thanks to the luks code, it makes way more sense than anything else out there
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2019-08-26T03:04:33 < Cracki> boss loves optional gpios and assigns them however he likes. I like them to be dual-usable for timer I/O, spi, i2c, uart, ... such a hard life
2019-08-26T03:05:17 < Cracki> half the things only have a name, no description, I can't even guess what would make them easier to make work
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2019-08-26T03:06:22 < Cracki> e.g. one step-dir input pair. i know the timers have dedicated incremental encoder input, but step-dir? I'll have to investigate
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2019-08-26T03:11:16 < Cracki> nvm, encoder mode supports that too
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2019-08-26T03:21:26 < Cracki> sanity check pls: have step+dir inputs, rising step says to count, dir level says to count up or down. stm32f1 or f3 timers can do that, right? I haven't seen the solution yet, still looking
2019-08-26T03:22:36 < Thorn> you can use a timer to drive the step output
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2019-08-26T03:22:41 < Cracki> no no, input
2019-08-26T03:23:32 < Cracki> I can do it with exti interrupts but I'm wondering if timers can do it themselves, like they can take quadrature signals
2019-08-26T03:24:07 < Cracki> I know timers can count external pulses, BUT I'm looking at how it takes counting *direction* from the other input
2019-08-26T03:25:29 < Thorn> dunno then, see timer appnotes
2019-08-26T03:25:36 < Cracki> am digging
2019-08-26T03:37:51 < Cracki> eh I don't expect the dir signal to move much, I can spare an interrupt to set the timer's DIR bit
2019-08-26T03:42:30 < Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF_-5pZ_kxY
2019-08-26T03:42:55 < Cracki> it would be nice if I could feed the encoder mode just rising edges of the one signal, not its falling edges. that'd take care of everything.
2019-08-26T04:14:18 < dongs> how do you make a rising edge without it falling sometime
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2019-08-26T04:14:59 < Thorn> are there otg cables with µ connectors on both ends?
2019-08-26T04:15:39 < Thorn> or do I need to use otg adapter + µ cable
2019-08-26T04:16:14 < dongs> i have one plugged into my thermApp
2019-08-26T04:16:17 < dongs> im sure its a custom job tho
2019-08-26T04:16:23 < dongs> its microusb on both enbds
2019-08-26T04:16:34 < Cracki> owo https://www.adafruit.com/product/3610
2019-08-26T04:16:53 < Cracki> proof of existence, now you gotta find the right price
2019-08-26T04:17:28 < Cracki> https://www.amazon.com/CableCreation-Compatible-Kindle-Android-Tablet/dp/B01M5GZ3N0
2019-08-26T04:18:12 < Thorn> why µB on both ends
2019-08-26T04:18:22 < dongs> waut
2019-08-26T04:18:29 < dongs> what did you ask?
2019-08-26T04:18:31 < Thorn> not µA
2019-08-26T04:18:43 < Cracki> because B is for device ends
2019-08-26T04:18:45 < dongs> lel, you expect sockets to acutally match with OTG?
2019-08-26T04:19:04 < Cracki> and the OTG device is still a device, so it gets a B socket
2019-08-26T04:19:13 < Cracki> the other end is the device-device, so it doubly gets a B
2019-08-26T04:19:27 < Cracki> if you wanted micro-a to micro-b, that's an ordinary cable
2019-08-26T04:19:56 < Thorn> who uses µA though
2019-08-26T04:19:58 < Cracki> except I haven't seen micro-a actually used anywhere. they all use standard A or straight up C
2019-08-26T04:20:25 < Cracki> for reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Connectors
2019-08-26T04:22:01 < Thorn> do I need µB or µAB socket for my DRD?
2019-08-26T04:22:08 < Cracki> drd?
2019-08-26T04:22:17 < Thorn> Dual Role Device
2019-08-26T04:22:24 < Cracki> micro b
2019-08-26T04:22:36 < Cracki> my phone is otg and it has micro b
2019-08-26T04:23:15 < Cracki> oh sorry, I seem to be mistaken: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go#OTG_micro_plugs
2019-08-26T04:27:55 < Thorn> do µA plugs exist at all in nature though? lol
2019-08-26T04:33:05 < Thorn> so that adafruit cable is wrong?
2019-08-26T04:33:16 < Thorn> since it has two µB plugs
2019-08-26T04:39:34 < Cracki> the "otg" cable I have is micro-b plug to normal A jack...
2019-08-26T04:39:44 < Cracki> maybe "in practice" everyone just uses micro-B
2019-08-26T04:46:13 < mawk> isn't it AB in practice ?
2019-08-26T04:49:30 < Thorn> what if I connect a battery powered device with a discharged battery to a line powered DRD using a symmetric cable and I plug the "A-device" side into the non-DRD device? it won't work because the DRD is not going to supply power, right?
2019-08-26T04:51:17 < mawk> DRD ?
2019-08-26T04:52:18 < Thorn> Dual Role Device
2019-08-26T04:52:31 < mawk> ah
2019-08-26T04:53:16 < mawk> well in the DRD device if you switch correctly it should supply power
2019-08-26T04:54:28 < englishman> im so so glad that usb-pd exists
2019-08-26T04:55:18 <@aandrew> it's smart to be able to send (much) higher voltages over the wire to make power delivery more efficient
2019-08-26T04:55:51 <@aandrew> speaking of that, I bought a decent travel/folding solar panel charger thing
2019-08-26T04:56:10 <@aandrew> in the late afternoon sun it was delivering 5V 2.4A into a short
2019-08-26T04:56:21 < mawk> nice
2019-08-26T04:56:22 <@aandrew> not bad
2019-08-26T04:56:36 <@aandrew> it can in theory do that on the three ports it has simultaneously
2019-08-26T04:56:39 < mawk> for your newspaper I did like 6 booths but none of them kept the journal aandrew 
2019-08-26T04:56:50 < mawk> I'll ask my grandparents, they have a subscription to Le Monde and keep them I think
2019-08-26T04:57:00 <@aandrew> ok, that would be fantastic if they had it
2019-08-26T05:00:00 < englishman> >delivering 5v to a short
2019-08-26T05:00:01 < Thorn> https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/about/events/events.html/stm32mp1-emea-webinar-08-2019.html
2019-08-26T05:00:15 <@aandrew> englishman: heh you know what I mean
2019-08-26T05:00:26 < mawk> yes englishman it's a quantum circuit, both infinite impedance and zero impedance
2019-08-26T05:00:29 <@aandrew> although those wires I was using were pretty thin, I bet you could drop 5V across them
2019-08-26T05:10:26 < Thorn> oops some electronics has overheated on ISS
2019-08-26T05:10:44 < Thorn> hot to the touch and burning smell
2019-08-26T05:10:46 < Thorn> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-iss-stream+
2019-08-26T05:12:12 < Thorn> it's in the dragon?
2019-08-26T05:12:12 < Thorn> oops
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2019-08-26T05:36:21 < Thorn> soyuz ms-13 redocking in 25 min
2019-08-26T05:44:39 < dongs> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps62827.pdf
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2019-08-26T10:30:36 < nuxil> with cubemx. can i disable generation of comments when generating code for my peripherals? is there a option to turn it off? 
2019-08-26T11:17:03 < Steffanx> Probably not. I assume it's all templated stuff
2019-08-26T12:25:45 < karlp> so you're ok with _alll the rest of the generated stuff?
2019-08-26T12:25:57 < karlp> are you sure you're looking at the right thing to be upset about? :)
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2019-08-26T12:30:21 < karlp> Thorn: my old sony phone had a micro-ab socket, only one I've ever seen in the wild though.
2019-08-26T12:39:09 < jpa-> but have you ever seen micro-A cable?
2019-08-26T12:39:20 < jpa-> wild or domesticated
2019-08-26T12:39:25 < karlp> nope
2019-08-26T12:52:18 < zyp> I have
2019-08-26T12:52:53 < zyp> but it's more common with A-wired B-plugs
2019-08-26T13:25:20 < karlp> gonna be a good day.  implemented some code to sync the two dac channels. worked first time.
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2019-08-26T13:29:50 < salcedo> every day is a good day, starring Lord Karl, of House Palsson. DACarys!!
2019-08-26T13:31:40 < karlp> well, more house Ránargata, no-one else in my house is Pálsson...
2019-08-26T13:33:10 < salcedo> gonna flash this controller and ship it off to bitmask
2019-08-26T13:45:54 < Steffanx> Dont
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2019-08-26T14:31:56 < zyp> karlp, because your kids are Karlsson/Karlsdottir or however you spell it?
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2019-08-26T14:38:43 < Thorn> in general, when connecting a non-DRD device to a DRD, you have to plug the A side of the cable (with ID grounded) into the DRD or the connection won't work, right?
2019-08-26T14:41:28 < Thorn> even if you don't take power into account
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2019-08-26T14:48:49 < jpa-> Thorn: yeah, though nowadays many cheap chinese microb-microb cables just connect all pins through, so i have a habit of grounding ID on the device side
2019-08-26T14:49:11 < Thorn> interesting
2019-08-26T14:49:12 < jpa-> can't remember when i've last seen a cable with "host" and "device" sides marked
2019-08-26T14:49:54 < Thorn> so the real life has deviated from the standard significantly
2019-08-26T14:51:17 < karlp> zyp: yeah.
2019-08-26T14:51:43 < karlp> karlsdóttir, or karlsdættinar
2019-08-26T14:52:07 < karlp> wife's got her own name too of course
2019-08-26T14:53:05 < karlp> Thorn: great music thanks :)
2019-08-26T14:53:36 < Thorn> jpa-: what about connecting 2 DRDs with such a cable though?
2019-08-26T14:53:57 < jpa-> Thorn: then they'll be wiggling their pins and i don't know what will happen
2019-08-26T14:54:12 < Thorn> how are they going to choose which one is the A side
2019-08-26T14:54:27 < Thorn> (not a use case I'm going to need to support but still an obvious question)
2019-08-26T14:54:34 < zyp> karlp, here we're all Eriksen, and I don't know how far back that Erik guy was
2019-08-26T14:54:35 < jpa-> if they are smart, they'll act like zyp's macbook; ask the user
2019-08-26T14:55:36 < jpa-> we are all Aimonen, which is diminutive of the name "Aimo", a male given name; i have no idea who he was and how small he was
2019-08-26T14:57:07 < jpa-> Thorn: looks like DRD (being newer than OTG) delegates the responsibility to application software or operating system:  https://blogs.synopsys.com/tousbornottousb/2018/05/03/usb-dual-role-replaces-usb-on-the-go/
2019-08-26T14:57:25 < zyp> speaking of, my daugher was born the other day :)
2019-08-26T14:57:47 < jpa-> congrats! but how are you irc now?
2019-08-26T14:57:50 < zyp> she's also Eriksen, got her name formally registered yesterday
2019-08-26T14:57:56 < zyp> she's sleeping
2019-08-26T14:58:02 < karlp> congratulations!
2019-08-26T14:58:08 < zyp> thanks
2019-08-26T14:58:08 < jpa-> oh, you got a child that sleeps, lucky
2019-08-26T14:58:37 < Thorn> congratulations zyp :)
2019-08-26T14:59:13 < zyp> :)
2019-08-26T14:59:15 < Thorn> jpa-: drd is a term from the org spec, they must be talking about some 3.0 / type c stuff in that article
2019-08-26T14:59:27 < Thorn> *otg spec
2019-08-26T14:59:58 < zyp> IIRC DRD is a type-c term, no?
2019-08-26T15:00:05 < zyp> or both, maybe?
2019-08-26T15:00:09 < jpa-> looks like it has been used in otg spec also
2019-08-26T15:00:18 < zyp> a DRD is a device that can act as both host and device
2019-08-26T15:00:46 < jpa-> fortunately USB-IF has a track record of non confusing names, like "USB 3.2 Gen 2x2"
2019-08-26T15:00:47 < zyp> for legacy OTG, the cable decided which end was host and which was device
2019-08-26T15:00:50 < Thorn> they probably reused it to mean a different thing
2019-08-26T15:01:38 < zyp> for type-c, there's some probability negotiation to decide, and user interface can override
2019-08-26T15:01:42 < Thorn> which is exactly what a standards body is supposed to do /s
2019-08-26T15:02:06 < zyp> a DRD might prefer to be host or device depending on what it's designed to do
2019-08-26T15:02:12 < Thorn> type c + usb3 I assume? or usb2 also?
2019-08-26T15:02:55 < zyp> both
2019-08-26T15:03:07 < jpa-> has anyone implemented usb3 devices btw? does the software need to do something for the USB3->USB2->USB1 fallback stuff, or is it all transparently hidden by the usb controller?
2019-08-26T15:03:22 < zyp> IIRC that's implemented by alternating between pullups and pulldowns like 90/10 or 10/90 depending on what you prefer to be
2019-08-26T15:03:41 < zyp> so it's more likely to get the role you spend the longer amount of time sensing for
2019-08-26T15:03:47 < Thorn> so the dwc_otg which is in stm32 is not up to date with regard to type C
2019-08-26T15:04:03 < zyp> type-c is independent of usb2 and usb3
2019-08-26T15:04:35 < zyp> you get chips that can talk CC and emulate the ID pin
2019-08-26T15:04:53 < zyp> so just throw one of those in front of dwc_otg and you've got a type-c DRD
2019-08-26T15:06:00 < zyp> jpa-, usb2 is a superset of usb1, and I guess you already know how HS/FS/LS is negotiated?
2019-08-26T15:06:12 < Thorn> oh btw can dwc_otg indicate a bcd 1.2 cdp on the host side?
2019-08-26T15:06:30 < zyp> I don't know
2019-08-26T15:06:42 < Thorn> afaik it can detect it on the device side
2019-08-26T15:07:23 < jpa-> zyp: i know how the negotiation works in hw, but i have no actual experience on whether it is visible to the firmware
2019-08-26T15:07:38 < zyp> it has to be, descriptor sets differ
2019-08-26T15:07:38 < Thorn> I found a power switch + bcd compliant cdp/dcp chip from TI, I assume intended for chargers
2019-08-26T15:07:55 < zyp> HS bulk is 512B MPS, FS bulk is 64B
2019-08-26T15:08:01 < jpa-> hmm, true; so i guess SS is visible also
2019-08-26T15:08:16 < zyp> yeah
2019-08-26T15:08:58 < zyp> I don't have experience with usb3 but I wouldn't be surprised if it's implemented by two more or less separate cores
2019-08-26T15:09:10 < zyp> since the signals are independent
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2019-08-26T15:18:44 < Steffanx> Congrats mr zyp.
2019-08-26T15:18:55 < Steffanx> And mrs.
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2019-08-26T15:54:05 < catphish> zyp: thanks for the usb code, it's much more readable than all the other attempts to document it, i'm finally getting there with my own usb
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2019-08-26T16:47:59 < Laurenceb_> based https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-49472600
2019-08-26T16:48:09 < Laurenceb_> btfo'd https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/496F/production/_108499781_fire2.jpg
2019-08-26T16:51:01 < Laurenceb_> 100 times moar destruction than any murican school attacker
2019-08-26T16:51:21 < Laurenceb_> britbong teenage edgelords take the school destruction crown
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2019-08-26T17:04:59 < zyp> catphish, the API is also kinda terrible, so don't copy it :)
2019-08-26T17:06:18 < zyp> I recommend making an async transfer API where you pass the stack a buffer to either read from or write to and then gets a callback or something when you're finished
2019-08-26T17:06:36 < zyp> that way read flow control gets handled implicitly
2019-08-26T17:06:56 < zyp> the way my API is structured now makes read flow control really hard to do in a sane way
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2019-08-26T17:31:01 < catphish> zyp: so far i've only got as far as the basics of setting up and reading / writing the buffers, haven't thought much about the upper level API yet, will figure that out once i have all the control reuests working
2019-08-26T17:31:29 < Thorn> is my driver not good enough :/
2019-08-26T17:31:54 < catphish> i noticed you had some blocking transfers in there, i'm not at the stage of worrying about that yet :)
2019-08-26T17:36:30 < Steffanx> Is Thorn's code public?
2019-08-26T17:38:26 < Thorn> https://github.com/pthorn/cortexm-usb-driver
2019-08-26T17:48:00 < Thorn> starhopper 200m test may happen tonight
2019-08-26T17:53:50 < karlp> there's also that crazy all assembly driver too. zypsnips/usb-stacks.notes has it.
2019-08-26T17:53:53 < karlp> chopstx 
2019-08-26T17:54:18 < karlp> Thorn: why did you remove the readme?
2019-08-26T17:54:24 < karlp> not very friendly
2019-08-26T17:55:05 < karlp> Thorn: given no docs, is there another repo that shows how to use it at least?
2019-08-26T17:55:45 < karlp> everythin in .h files again.
2019-08-26T17:55:54 < karlp> it might be "normal" but I always hate it abotu c++
2019-08-26T17:56:11 < Thorn> I'm refactoring it to be more traditional
2019-08-26T17:56:14 < Thorn> and adding examples
2019-08-26T17:56:48 < karlp> last commit is 2017, you're refactoring it?
2019-08-26T17:57:10 < karlp> (can you write a gadget0 implementation using it?
2019-08-26T17:58:23 < Thorn> what is that
2019-08-26T17:59:53 < karlp> either the standard linux one, or the slightly extended libopencm3 one.
2019-08-26T18:00:09 < karlp> lets you run behaviour and conformance testing easily :)
2019-08-26T18:01:19 < Thorn> google is failing me
2019-08-26T18:02:20 < karlp> https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/master/tests/gadget-zero/usb-gadget0.c
2019-08-26T18:02:29 < Thorn> ok it's gadget zero
2019-08-26T18:02:36 < Thorn> found something
2019-08-26T18:02:44 < karlp> https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/tree/master/tests/gadget-zero has an actual readme too....
2019-08-26T18:03:38 < karlp> it has a bunch of tests that all the descriptors are well handled, and that there's no assumptions about endpoint addresses or config numbers, and that all the edgecases of packet sizes work properly, and all that sort of thing.
2019-08-26T18:03:53 < karlp> I got it to run against the zephyr stack too with only some minimal changes.
2019-08-26T18:04:36 < karlp> the libopencm3 version has a a few extra thigns that it tests vs the linux one, but it also misses things like billboard support, and high/superspeed stuff, and iso too.
2019-08-26T18:14:39 < Thorn> interesting, thanks, I was actually thinking about a standardized test like that
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2019-08-26T18:25:40 < karlp> it's been super helpful for avoiding "works on my machine.pro" sort of fixes
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2019-08-26T18:42:11 < Thorn> the future is here: a live streaming pilot https://youtu.be/4-LfoZ1GcpI?t=930
2019-08-26T18:44:04 < dongs> wait what
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2019-08-26T20:24:34 < Getty> great with arm-none-eabi-4.9 i reach 29k with everything above i am exceeding 40k (and so my 32k limit for bootloader)
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2019-08-26T20:31:45 < karlp> your bootloader takes 32k?
2019-08-26T20:32:17 < Getty> well he does stuff?! there is fat in there and other things
2019-08-26T20:32:35 < karlp> bah.  my code, on board temp sensor gives me ~32°C.  test code only 27.  something I'm doing is running hotter inside than I can add up from the datasheets :)
2019-08-26T20:32:54 < karlp> petitefatfs or fullfat?
2019-08-26T20:33:08 < Getty> the fatfs not petite
2019-08-26T20:33:28 < Getty> but what this has to do with my thing? can we talk about the 50% size gain instead of what i use? ;-)
2019-08-26T20:34:05 < karlp> are you targetting m0?
2019-08-26T20:34:13 < Getty> is that normal or might that be just some flag mistake i do?
2019-08-26T20:34:15 < karlp> are you properly enablign nano specs?
2019-08-26T20:34:31 < karlp> because yeah, of course that soundsd like a wild regression
2019-08-26T20:35:04 < karlp> 29k for your bootloader still soundsd insane though :)
2019-08-26T20:35:07 < Getty> i am running that bootloader code since some years now, but yeah i might not be that good with the flags
2019-08-26T20:35:37 < Getty> well i dont think it is that insane, given that it does a good load of the actual hardware work too
2019-08-26T20:35:49 < Getty> its just like a Pre-Loader not a boot-only-loader
2019-08-26T20:35:57 < Getty> so i dont feel that bad about it
2019-08-26T20:36:03 < karlp> you should :)
2019-08-26T20:36:10 < Getty> especially cause its my first bootloader and it never failed so far once at the customer
2019-08-26T20:36:21 < karlp> well, why ar eyou upgrading toolchains then :)
2019-08-26T20:36:24 < karlp> works, don't touch it :)
2019-08-26T20:36:53 < Getty> hahaha yeah that is what i am doing now, i was just thinking that i might should see to upgrade this cause we still have here and there some instability problems that are harder to track
2019-08-26T20:37:07 < Getty> so in general i update my stuff from time to time, just never the toolchain yet
2019-08-26T20:37:18 < Getty> let me show you my flags on the gcc
2019-08-26T20:37:23 < Getty> you probably see something stupid i do
2019-08-26T20:38:48 < jpa-> Getty: so run bloaty or something on it and see what takes more space?
2019-08-26T20:39:01 < Getty> https://gist.github.com/Getty/113ba18a721d972a7b7b6ed2658f10ad
2019-08-26T20:39:06 < Getty> what is bloaty?
2019-08-26T20:39:25 < jpa-> https://github.com/google/bloaty   to show what files code size is coming from
2019-08-26T20:39:32 < jpa-> IIRC it can even compare two .elfs
2019-08-26T20:39:34 < Getty> bloaty mcbloatface 8-D hehe
2019-08-26T20:39:52 < Getty> well i get no elf cause the .rom size denies it which makes debugging harder, i probably has to set a higher limit 
2019-08-26T20:40:20 < Getty> i do have the .map file and see more or less the sizes but there is nothing particular i can do, i do see that malloc seems to be a big topic in the new versions but still that is not "all" of it
2019-08-26T20:40:22 < jpa-> sure, just temporarily edit the .ld
2019-08-26T20:45:00 < Getty> bloaty doesnt wanna compile 8-D
2019-08-26T20:45:39 < Getty> but seems a problem with debian the CMakeLists.txt are not in their distribution for the things or something
2019-08-26T20:47:06 < Getty> oh wait no, my cmake is just too old <doh>
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2019-08-26T21:06:38 < kakimir> well hello
2019-08-26T21:06:52 < mawk> yeah Getty people like to require cmake versions they don't need
2019-08-26T21:07:02 < mawk> edit the cmakelists and lower to your version to see
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2019-08-26T21:57:03 < kakimir> does external ethernet adapter have any gains compared to integrated?
2019-08-26T21:57:05 < kakimir> 1Gbps
2019-08-26T21:57:31 < Steffanx> You can replace it when it breaks.
2019-08-26T21:57:56 < kakimir> but in terms of performance
2019-08-26T21:58:03 < Steffanx> oh, probably not.
2019-08-26T21:58:05 < Steffanx> :P
2019-08-26T21:58:38 < Steffanx> sometimes (windows) drivers of external ones have more options.
2019-08-26T21:58:39 < jpa-> unless external is usb3 and internal is usb2, instead of pci-e
2019-08-26T21:58:43 < Steffanx> settings
2019-08-26T21:59:00 < Steffanx> but a kakimir runs lunix for sure
2019-08-26T21:59:08 < kakimir> sure
2019-08-26T21:59:11 < kakimir> freebsd
2019-08-26T21:59:23 < kakimir> same thing
2019-08-26T21:59:28 < Steffanx> in case of freebsd//freenas i would look for compatibility.
2019-08-26T21:59:44 < kakimir> it did seem to work
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2019-08-26T22:00:19 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-WMxr2B2H0 musics steffbox
2019-08-26T22:01:21 < Steffanx> is it cold in finland again?
2019-08-26T22:01:54 < kakimir> it warm
2019-08-26T22:01:56 < kakimir> wtf
2019-08-26T22:04:17 < kakimir> wednesday forecast 24C
2019-08-26T22:04:20 < kakimir> insane
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2019-08-26T22:05:29 < Steffanx> best temperature.
2019-08-26T22:06:19 < kakimir> should I ride to Helsinki?
2019-08-26T22:06:59 < Steffanx> on the moped?
2019-08-26T22:07:07 < Steffanx> How far is that for a kakimir?
2019-08-26T22:07:20 < kakimir> not far
2019-08-26T22:07:29 < Steffanx> how many km is that for a kakimir?
2019-08-26T22:07:35 < kakimir> 350km
2019-08-26T22:07:50 < Steffanx> ok
2019-08-26T22:08:10 < Steffanx> could also go on a europe trip.
2019-08-26T22:08:15 < Steffanx> visit Laurenceb__ while you still can
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2019-08-26T22:11:24 < kakimir> indeed
2019-08-26T22:12:19 <@aandrew> hm, found a number of places in the working-but-unmaintained ptp port where signed types were used instead of unsigned and vice-versa
2019-08-26T22:16:57 < kakimir> you know Steffanx that I will crash to your place
2019-08-26T22:17:21 < emeb> oh joy - on F7 there are HAL functions for programming flash w/ bytes, halfwords or words. 
2019-08-26T22:17:41 < emeb> oh H7 you can only program 256-bit records
2019-08-26T22:18:03 < Steffanx> are you sure kakimir?
2019-08-26T22:19:22 < mawk> see in the _ex file too emeb 
2019-08-26T22:23:22 < kakimir> Steffanx: I mean.. why not?
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2019-08-26T22:24:01 < kakimir> I'm probably exhausted after full-throttling through germany
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2019-08-26T22:25:52 < kakimir> this web client smells
2019-08-26T22:26:05 < salcedo> web clients and odors
2019-08-26T22:26:13 < salcedo> this reminds me to check n-gate.com for lulz
2019-08-26T22:28:03 < kakimir> I don't know if I want to know
2019-08-26T22:28:17 < emeb> mawk: I don't see any byte programming stuff in flash_ex.[ch]
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2019-08-26T22:31:44 < salcedo> kakimir: n-gate.com is the only authoritative tech news site you need to read.
2019-08-26T22:34:00 < kakimir> "we can't both be right"
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2019-08-26T22:39:22 < mawk> in non-aristotelician logic you can !
2019-08-26T22:54:39 < Thorn> T - 1 h (?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fblo3vzsOo4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8CSgRpPT0o
2019-08-26T23:03:26 < Steffanx> no official spacex stream Thorn?
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2019-08-26T23:09:16 < qyx> any favourite USB2 hub?
2019-08-26T23:09:21 < qyx> IC
2019-08-26T23:21:03 < kakimir> now I have 200GB + 200GB installed
2019-08-26T23:21:15 < kakimir> soon I get 1TB more
2019-08-26T23:21:47 < Steffanx> hm
2019-08-26T23:21:56 < kakimir> this seriuous!
2019-08-26T23:22:23 < kakimir> do you blank hdd's before connecting them Steff
2019-08-26T23:25:02 < kakimir> if I understood correctly
2019-08-26T23:25:11 < kakimir> I need to collect pairs of same size disks?
2019-08-26T23:26:31 < Steffanx> you dont have to, but its handy..
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2019-08-26T23:30:22 < karlp> dont'ð know about favourite, I've only used one of the smsc ones, but I know that the terminus tech stuff is meant to be "works good, works cheap" too, I think dongs and aandrew approved
2019-08-26T23:30:34 < mawk> ð
2019-08-26T23:30:46 < mawk> it's on my keyboard I don't know why
2019-08-26T23:31:19 < mawk> I use it instead of ∂ sometimes when I'm lazy
2019-08-26T23:32:24 < qyx> I picked USB2517, looks good so far
2019-08-26T23:32:53 < karlp> the microchip ones have some nice stuff like all the pin swapping shit.  
2019-08-26T23:33:18 < karlp> i just wish they had better documentation for the (undocumented) hub control requests.
2019-08-26T23:34:13 < qyx> oh I though smsc was bought by microchip
2019-08-26T23:35:10 < karlp> they were.
2019-08-26T23:35:12 < karlp> long ago
2019-08-26T23:35:26 < karlp> but the part numbers stayed, 
2019-08-26T23:35:55 < karlp> well, not any more
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2019-08-26T23:36:13 < kakimir> it's getting annoying
2019-08-26T23:36:26 < kakimir> how it's handy steffpops?
2019-08-26T23:36:52 < karlp> Getty:what's with the no-tree-loop-distribute-patterns ?
2019-08-26T23:37:02 < karlp> also, if you want touse nanospecs, you need it for both c flags and ldflags
2019-08-26T23:37:40 < karlp> and what are you doing with the gimple dumps?!
2019-08-26T23:41:54 < kakimir> steff: does freenas has disk blanking?
2019-08-26T23:42:04 < kakimir> if I throw used disks in
2019-08-26T23:42:10 < kakimir> is there button to sanitize them
2019-08-26T23:42:40 < Steffanx> not sure. i believe has something like that
2019-08-26T23:43:19 < salcedo> sanitize like the 33 overwrites of nonsense?
2019-08-26T23:43:26 < Steffanx> but i hardly use those options, since it all works fine and dandy
2019-08-26T23:43:32 < englishman> Thorn: another hour?
2019-08-26T23:43:52 < Steffanx> Thorn died.
2019-08-26T23:45:21 < kakimir> Rips
2019-08-26T23:45:50 < kakimir> can I pair disks later Steffanx?
2019-08-26T23:46:00 < kakimir> if I have just one of 1TB
2019-08-26T23:46:05 < kakimir> then throw another 1TB in
2019-08-26T23:46:18 < kakimir> after I have started using that 1TB
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2019-08-26T23:47:22 < salcedo> submitting PR add RIPThorn.h
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2019-08-26T23:49:47 < Steffanx> if you just mirror it you can kakimir.
2019-08-26T23:49:57 < kakimir> where is parity data?
2019-08-26T23:50:07 < kakimir> boot disk?
2019-08-26T23:50:21 < kakimir> assigned parity data disk?
2019-08-26T23:50:41 < kakimir> Steffanx: what options I have for mirroring?
2019-08-26T23:50:47 < kakimir> generally
2019-08-26T23:51:19 < Steffanx> this is kinda an open question
2019-08-26T23:53:53 < kakimir> I smell burning in air outside
2019-08-26T23:54:23 < kakimir> something is going off up wind
2019-08-26T23:54:32 < kakimir> maybe forrest
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2019-08-26T23:54:52 < Steffanx> btw, im no zfs expert at all kakimir
2019-08-26T23:54:58 < Steffanx> i just setup some crap and never touched it again
2019-08-26T23:55:06 < kakimir> well who isn't
2019-08-26T23:56:24 < englishman> why did thorn die? lead poisoning from solder? aids from using open source?
2019-08-26T23:56:53 < kakimir> he died to vitutus
2019-08-26T23:56:55 < Steffanx> he spaced too much
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--- Day changed Tue Aug 27 2019
2019-08-27T00:00:18 < Steffanx> Soon i'll touch it again kakimir. my media drive is only a single 10TB disk. need more if i want to keep it :P
2019-08-27T00:00:22 < mawk> you're dongsized englishman 
2019-08-27T00:00:35 < mawk> foss is the future of humanity
2019-08-27T00:00:51 < Steffanx> windows master race.
2019-08-27T00:00:54 < mawk> :(
2019-08-27T00:02:37 < Steffanx> will you be moving to dutchland soon, mawk?
2019-08-27T00:02:44 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2019-08-27T00:02:49 < mawk> but all employers are on vacation it seems
2019-08-27T00:02:55 < mawk> or my mail is filtered by evil corps
2019-08-27T00:03:07 < Steffanx> hm
2019-08-27T00:03:11 < Steffanx> better stalk em
2019-08-27T00:03:14 < mawk> 19th september the police comes to get me
2019-08-27T00:03:16 < Steffanx> daily phone call
2019-08-27T00:03:24 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-27T00:03:42 < Steffanx> je suis mawk
2019-08-27T00:03:58 < mawk> lol
2019-08-27T00:05:04 < mawk> there are like 10 embedded thingies companies around den haag/delft
2019-08-27T00:05:11 < mawk> I don't want too far away from that
2019-08-27T00:05:13 < mawk> delft is the nicest city
2019-08-27T00:06:36 < Steffanx> Groningen is best.
2019-08-27T00:06:56 < mawk> my father studied law there
2019-08-27T00:07:00 < mawk> sometimes in the church
2019-08-27T00:07:09 < Steffanx> heh
2019-08-27T00:07:11 < mawk> but it's far from everything and cold
2019-08-27T00:07:12 < mawk> :(
2019-08-27T00:07:28 < specing> what are the salaries like for embedded dev?
2019-08-27T00:07:43 < specing> Do you need to have an EE degree to get a job as an embedded dev?
2019-08-27T00:08:15 < mawk> some ask for it yeah
2019-08-27T00:08:21 < mawk> but I think it's implied for all of them
2019-08-27T00:08:42 < mawk> I don't remember the salaries, it's like 30 or 40k€/year for ""junior""
2019-08-27T00:08:49 < mawk> with alleged bonuses
2019-08-27T00:09:04 < Steffanx> lol mawk. dutchland is cold. kinda
2019-08-27T00:09:07 < specing> not much
2019-08-27T00:09:16 < Steffanx> except now. its 30+C
2019-08-27T00:09:29 < mawk> yeah a reason for moving there is moving away from the heat actually
2019-08-27T00:09:35 < mawk> I'm migrating up north like a bird
2019-08-27T00:09:41 < specing> Are there companies hiring embedded devs with PhDs or is the salary too low for that? 
2019-08-27T00:09:44 < mawk> but my gf doesn't like cold
2019-08-27T00:09:56 < mawk> if you insist I'm sure they will take you specing 
2019-08-27T00:10:00 < Steffanx>   23C is cold?
2019-08-27T00:10:01 < mawk> but I don't think they would up the salary
2019-08-27T00:10:11 < mawk> 23°C is a bit hot for me, but it's fine
2019-08-27T00:10:31 < mawk> but there are embedded companies hiring PhDs explicitely specing anyway
2019-08-27T00:10:45 < mawk> you don't need to aim low
2019-08-27T00:11:18 < specing> mawk: which ones?
2019-08-27T00:12:05 < mawk> in dutchland I don't know, in France I know about a couple of them that work with positionning or self-driving vehicles
2019-08-27T00:12:15 < mawk> since it's all maths stuff anyway
2019-08-27T00:12:43 < mawk> safran, thalès, valeo, sysnav, whatever
2019-08-27T00:13:13 < mawk> some of them work for the military
2019-08-27T00:14:33 < specing> I'm wondering whether I should spend 2 years getting a masters in EE or go straight to PhD
2019-08-27T00:14:45 < mawk> I think phd will get you more $$$
2019-08-27T00:14:48 < specing> (right now Im halfway getting a CS+math masters)
2019-08-27T00:14:49 < mawk> but I'm not an expert on this
2019-08-27T00:14:59 < mawk> it all depends on the field you're in anyway
2019-08-27T00:15:01 < mawk> in CS ?
2019-08-27T00:15:07 < specing> computer science
2019-08-27T00:15:13 < mawk> right
2019-08-27T00:15:47 < Steffanx> I still wonder if your PhD will get you more. 
2019-08-27T00:15:54 < Steffanx> Look at the Blaxter :P
2019-08-27T00:16:03 < mawk> lol
2019-08-27T00:16:37 < specing> I'd like to get a PhD, but I don't like the whole writing articles and techning part
2019-08-27T00:16:41 < specing> teaching*
2019-08-27T00:17:14 < specing> also I have friends with PhDs / who have worked in/with academia and chatting with them has not been very encouraging
2019-08-27T00:17:31 < Steffanx> But then I dont know many Drs. The ones I know ended up doing work at some uni or some uni subsidized spin off
2019-08-27T00:17:42 < effractur> specing: not all countries /posisitions have a teaching requirement
2019-08-27T00:18:56 < englishman> I'd think a PhD would make you harder to hire
2019-08-27T00:19:03 < englishman> maybe pick a career path first
2019-08-27T00:19:18 < englishman> then decide the best way to do it
2019-08-27T00:21:14 < karlp> you'll get more money with a phd, sure, but you'll never make enough more to make up for the years of lost income.
2019-08-27T00:21:28 < karlp> if you're doing a phd to ge tpaid more, I think you'r edoing it wrong.
2019-08-27T00:39:03 < kakimir> Steffanx: sweet.. freenas ships with default setting of not spinning down disks
2019-08-27T00:40:18 < kakimir> now it's wiping shit
2019-08-27T00:40:50 < kakimir> why not steal the UI for that progress bar
2019-08-27T00:40:53 < kakimir> insane
2019-08-27T00:41:22 < kakimir> I wonder if my browser accidentally loses connection to server if it stops
2019-08-27T00:43:41 < Cracki> hahah I sent ST a support ticket, telling them they've got an error in RM0316. some nameless null-level support drone responds with "what's the name of your business and website?" like that is at all relevant
2019-08-27T00:47:07 < Cracki> TIL: ST = SGS Thompson, which merged to form ST
2019-08-27T00:47:23 < Cracki> -p
2019-08-27T00:53:59 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-27T00:54:12 < mawk> you're all worshipping a half french company
2019-08-27T00:54:19 < BrainDamage> italian and french, worst of both world
2019-08-27T00:54:32 < mawk> lol
2019-08-27T00:55:43 < BrainDamage> one of the main offices is right next to my ex univ
2019-08-27T00:56:07 < BrainDamage> more than once I've considered passing by and hurling a brick through a window
2019-08-27T00:58:22 < mawk> lol
2019-08-27T00:58:30 < mawk> I had an internship offer at ST france
2019-08-27T00:58:34 < kakimir> let's have web bot chat instead of email form
2019-08-27T00:58:35 < mawk> but I have to emigrate to NL
2019-08-27T00:58:55 < kakimir> email works all too well
2019-08-27T00:59:03 < kakimir> and you can keep a copy
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2019-08-27T01:00:14 < kakimir> and that bot chat is actually forwarded to someones email
2019-08-27T01:00:57 < BrainDamage> I've actually considered a few times writing an email client that looks like a chat / im
2019-08-27T01:01:31 < BrainDamage> you get magic interoperability and ease of use
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2019-08-27T01:07:02 < zyp> try mixing in swedes
2019-08-27T01:07:09 < zyp> I used to work for ST-Ericsson for a while
2019-08-27T01:12:54 < catphish> is there a sane way to get a usb vendor/product id for a small batch of devices where a proper usb consortium membership isn't sane?
2019-08-27T01:12:58 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip68-2-121-171.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2019-08-27T01:13:19 < zyp> opensource your device and request one from openmoko
2019-08-27T01:13:32 < zyp> that's what I've done for the stuff I sell
2019-08-27T01:13:36 < Cracki> ask ST, they might assign you a PID
2019-08-27T01:13:37 < zyp> firmware is opensource
2019-08-27T01:13:46 < catphish> ideal
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2019-08-27T01:14:19 < Cracki> hehe https://hackaday.com/2015/04/03/usb-pids-for-all/
2019-08-27T01:14:22 < zyp> I think they require either firmware or hardware to be open
2019-08-27T01:14:42 < catphish> http://pid.codes/howto/
2019-08-27T01:14:54 < Cracki> exactly
2019-08-27T01:15:04 < catphish> cool :)
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2019-08-27T01:16:21 < catphish> i suppose anyone could have hijacked any unallocatd VID and done this
2019-08-27T01:16:36 < catphish> as long as it became popular, the VID could never be allocated to anyone else
2019-08-27T01:16:40 < Cracki> allocated, but unused it seems
2019-08-27T01:16:57 < catphish> in this case, it seems like it was legitimately(ish) purchased
2019-08-27T01:17:53 < catphish> anyway, that's ideal for what i'm doing
2019-08-27T01:18:05 < Cracki> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009XkgcCSAR/has-anyone-managed-to-sublicence-a-usb-pid-from-st
2019-08-27T01:18:19 < mawk> catphish: there is a company giving away PID if the project is open source
2019-08-27T01:18:31 < catphish> mawk: already found it, thanks
2019-08-27T01:18:37 < mawk> ah you found it
2019-08-27T01:18:38 < catphish> http://pid.codes/
2019-08-27T01:18:38 < mawk> right
2019-08-27T01:19:00 < Cracki> for closed source, talk to ST. apparently it's possible to get a PID from them
2019-08-27T01:19:16 < catphish> my project will be open source so it's ll good
2019-08-27T01:19:40 < catphish> now back to writing my usb stack, such fun
2019-08-27T01:19:49 < Cracki> s'all good man (saul goodman, Breaking Bad)
2019-08-27T01:21:15 < englishman> someone here at work did memristor work for ST
2019-08-27T01:21:27 < englishman> but i suspect he was actually responsible for HAL
2019-08-27T01:21:31 < englishman> fucking asshole
2019-08-27T01:21:48 < mawk> lol
2019-08-27T01:23:09 < BrainDamage> ... one of my univ colleagues did work on HAL
2019-08-27T01:23:21 < catphish> can i define a struct in c that just has constant data in it? essentially just a bunch of constants neatly packed together
2019-08-27T01:23:41 < Cracki> possibly?
2019-08-27T01:23:53 < BrainDamage> constant or static constant?
2019-08-27T01:23:54 < Cracki> single instance of anonymous struct, packed
2019-08-27T01:23:58 < mawk> yeah using constant anonymous struct catphish 
2019-08-27T01:24:02 < mawk> gcc will optimize it out normally
2019-08-27T01:24:02 < specing> mawk: > internship offer
2019-08-27T01:24:11 < catphish> mawk: sounds good, thanks
2019-08-27T01:24:26 < mawk> const struct { int a; } stuff = {.a = 42};
2019-08-27T01:24:28 < mawk> like this
2019-08-27T01:24:38 < catphish> basically i just want a nice way to write out a USB descriptor that will never change
2019-08-27T01:24:50 < mawk> you can pack it too if you want, like a normal struct
2019-08-27T01:24:52 < catphish> mawk: ah yes, that's exactly what i want
2019-08-27T01:24:54 < specing> catphish: don't do this, it is not portable with C++
2019-08-27T01:25:02 < mawk> yeah C++ doesn't like the .a
2019-08-27T01:25:08 < mawk> you can just list out the fields in order in that case
2019-08-27T01:25:09 < specing> it is one of the few areas where C++ is not backwards compat
2019-08-27T01:25:10 < catphish> c++ can bite me
2019-08-27T01:25:24 < mawk> but C++17 (I think ?) now accepts it specing 
2019-08-27T01:25:28 < mawk> as long as it's in order and no holes
2019-08-27T01:25:36 < Cracki> gcc extensions maybe. screw all other compilers.
2019-08-27T01:25:48 < Cracki> I think gcc takes [identifier] = value syntax
2019-08-27T01:25:50 < specing> gcc best compiler
2019-08-27T01:25:50 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-27T01:25:54 < mawk> that's for arrays in particular Cracki 
2019-08-27T01:25:58 < Cracki> that too
2019-08-27T01:26:04 < Cracki> I *think* ive seen it for structs as well
2019-08-27T01:26:05 < mawk> int x[42] = {[11] = 12, [41] = 53};
2019-08-27T01:26:17 < specing> If you have gcc then you can use Ada and forget about this C/C++ mess entirely :D
2019-08-27T01:26:33 < catphish> either that or i just convert it to a string constant :)
2019-08-27T01:27:13 < Cracki> be aware that usb descriptors are binary. no good in a string constant.
2019-08-27T01:27:24 < mawk> he can use a bunch of \x
2019-08-27T01:27:27 < mawk> but it's ugly
2019-08-27T01:27:36 < Cracki> (except for the string descriptors which are utf16, so... there's the u"foo" syntax in newer gcc?)
2019-08-27T01:27:52 < mawk> I don't know if it's u but yeah there's a syntax for multibyte literals
2019-08-27T01:28:06 < mawk> 16 bit, 32 bit
2019-08-27T01:28:07 < Cracki> the teutonic usb tutorial mentions u"foo"
2019-08-27T01:29:00 < catphish> by string constant i just mean a byte array
2019-08-27T01:29:35 < Cracki> anyway, I didn't figure out whether a timer can take its counting direction from an external signal *on its own* so... at least it can count pulses, interrupts for the rest
2019-08-27T01:30:04 < catphish> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Tx6FKHmwh8/ << this is interesting, what syntax is this?
2019-08-27T01:30:18 < catphish> they're mixing types in what looks like an array
2019-08-27T01:30:24 < Cracki> could be struct
2019-08-27T01:30:37 < Cracki> if you do them in order, no need for .foo = ...
2019-08-27T01:30:38 < mawk> struct, or array
2019-08-27T01:30:39 < catphish> can you initialize a struct in an ordered way like that?
2019-08-27T01:30:42 < mawk> looks like all integers, can be an array
2019-08-27T01:30:44 < mawk> yes
2019-08-27T01:30:53 < Cracki> I say struct. array would mangle the differently sized literals
2019-08-27T01:31:00 < catphish> it's not an array, some are u8 and some are u16
2019-08-27T01:31:06 < Cracki> it's a struct
2019-08-27T01:31:15 < Cracki> with just values, in declaration order
2019-08-27T01:31:16 < catphish> i'll use that syntax then
2019-08-27T01:31:19 < mawk> yeah you can initialize structs like this
2019-08-27T01:31:22 < mawk> and it works in C++ too
2019-08-27T01:31:43 < mawk> pack the whole thing if you need it to match some kind of specification
2019-08-27T01:31:57 < Cracki> I think he does :P it's usb
2019-08-27T01:32:41 < catphish> yeah it'll need __attribute__ ((packed))
2019-08-27T01:33:34 < catphish> also need to check the byte order i guess
2019-08-27T01:38:18 < englishman> oh
2019-08-27T01:38:27 < englishman> this damn launch might not even be today
2019-08-27T01:38:30 < englishman> they have a 3 day window
2019-08-27T01:47:42 < Laurenceb_> >The Domestic Abuse Bill entered Parliament last month, defining economic abuse as "behaviour that has a substantial adverse effect on another person's ability to acquire, use or maintain money - or other property, or obtain goods or services".
2019-08-27T01:47:49 < Laurenceb_> lmao britbongs
2019-08-27T01:49:41 < Laurenceb_> n33t lifestylers in prison 4 lief
2019-08-27T01:50:42 < jadew`> isn't that incriminating the political class by default?
2019-08-27T01:51:11 < jadew`> even in the best of times, there are going to be people who are negatively impacted by the laws they pass
2019-08-27T01:51:20 < catphish> seems like the government would be in breach of that particular law :)
2019-08-27T01:51:28 < catphish> indeed
2019-08-27T01:53:25 < englishman> oh methane venting started
2019-08-27T01:53:41 < jadew`> you ate beans?
2019-08-27T01:53:45 < englishman> t-8min
2019-08-27T01:54:12 < jadew`> I just joined, link?
2019-08-27T01:54:18 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8CSgRpPT0o
2019-08-27T01:54:25 < jadew`> thanks
2019-08-27T01:54:30 < salcedo> your hero doing another launch?
2019-08-27T01:54:56 < jadew`> what's that thing?
2019-08-27T01:55:01 < jadew`> is that the rocket?
2019-08-27T01:56:06 < englishman> it's the delorean of rockets
2019-08-27T01:56:20 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2019-08-27T01:56:32 < jadew`> why does it look so weird?
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2019-08-27T01:56:58 < Thorn> 150 Meter Starhopper Test  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhjyz183poo
2019-08-27T01:57:15 < englishman> oh nicew
2019-08-27T01:57:33 < Thorn> and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fblo3vzsOo4
2019-08-27T01:57:45 < englishman> that guy is far too autistic
2019-08-27T01:57:47 < englishman> can't listen
2019-08-27T01:58:03 < englishman> the other one you linked was pretty good
2019-08-27T02:00:54 < Cracki> god these muricentric times! 6pm CT is 23:00 UTC
2019-08-27T02:00:54 < jadew`> why is it stuck at t -2
2019-08-27T02:01:04 < jadew`> and why is there none of that usual commentary
2019-08-27T02:01:04 < Cracki> they're waiting for a rabbit to stand under it
2019-08-27T02:01:08 < jadew`> with the little show they're putting on
2019-08-27T02:01:13 < jadew`> and the clapping
2019-08-27T02:01:14 < Cracki> it's just engineers dicking around, this has no time table
2019-08-27T02:01:19 < Thorn> Fedya rescue attempt T - 3 h 30 min on nasa tv
2019-08-27T02:01:43 < jadew`> is that thing going to take off?
2019-08-27T02:01:52 < englishman> that's the idea
2019-08-27T02:02:02 < jadew`> ok, so it's worth watching
2019-08-27T02:02:09 < englishman> that's subjective
2019-08-27T02:05:23 < englishman> oups
2019-08-27T02:09:29 < specing> ABORTED 800 ms till launch?!??!! WTF ?!?!
2019-08-27T02:09:36 < specing> meeeeeeeeh
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2019-08-27T02:16:40 < Laurenceb_> everyone went home
2019-08-27T02:16:46 < Laurenceb_> probably means its off
2019-08-27T02:20:47 < catphish> there's something very odd going in with writes to my usb packet buffer memory, i'm writing with 8-bit accesses to it, but the result seems to be the second byte of each pair being duplicted
2019-08-27T02:21:24 < catphish> so my bytes {0,1,2,3,4,5} becomes {1,1,3,3,5,5}
2019-08-27T02:22:07 < Thorn> try 16-bit writes as per the RM 
2019-08-27T02:22:36 < catphish> "The packet memory should be accessed only by byte (8-bit) or half-word (16-bit) accesses. Word (32-bit) accesses are not allowed."
2019-08-27T02:23:13 < catphish> but maybe i'm missing somewhere where it required 16 bit writes
2019-08-27T02:23:23 < catphish> it certainly seems that way
2019-08-27T02:24:13 < Cracki> st's usb is speshul
2019-08-27T02:24:39 < Cracki> yeah one byte is legit data, the other is going into nirvana
2019-08-27T02:24:39 < catphish> i'd suggest thorn is correct, but i can't see a reference to this in the RM
2019-08-27T02:25:23 < Cracki> if your chip's usb buffer memory is 512 bytes, you access it as 1024 shorts
2019-08-27T02:25:32 < Cracki> uh 512 shorts, 1024 bytes
2019-08-27T02:26:06 < Cracki> it's fucky. teutonic tutorial in the original klingon explains it too
2019-08-27T02:26:32 < catphish> i think it's a normal 1kB area on this chip
2019-08-27T02:26:51 < catphish> at least reading it seems normal
2019-08-27T02:29:11 < Cracki> mech engs here? a "pillow block" seems to be when the axis is parallel to the surface. is it a "pillow block" too when the axis is perpendicular to (through) the surface?
2019-08-27T02:30:01 < Cracki> ah, "flange"
2019-08-27T02:30:09 < catphish> actually it seems that writing the data then reading it back, it looks right, but the data it actually sends over the wire is mangled
2019-08-27T02:31:15 < Cracki> yes, it only writes bytes from address 0b???0
2019-08-27T02:31:49 < catphish> that makes some sense, but when why would it be duplicating them
2019-08-27T02:32:02 < Cracki> artefact of how they fucked it
2019-08-27T02:33:14 < catphish> by device descriptor {18, 1, 0,2, 0, 0, 0, 64, 0x09,0x12, 0x05,0x00, 1,0, 0,0,0, 0 } hits the wire as {1,1, 2,2, 0,0, 64,64, ...}
2019-08-27T02:34:02 < catphish> i'll read the manual again i guess
2019-08-27T02:34:10 < Cracki> uh
2019-08-27T02:34:55 < Cracki> are you sure it hits the wire like that, and it's not just the data you get by reading the memory?
2019-08-27T02:35:18 < catphish> in memory, it looks right
2019-08-27T02:35:30 < catphish> it definitely hits the wire corrupted
2019-08-27T02:38:56 < catphish> the manual says "packet memory is half-word wide", so it does seem like i should be doing 16 bit writes, i'll try that
2019-08-27T02:43:27 < catphish> 16 bit writes worked, thanks
2019-08-27T02:43:49 < catphish> not sure why my memory reads looked ok, cache i guess
2019-08-27T02:45:14 < catphish> looks healthy now :) https://i.imgur.com/YAxNsN7.png
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2019-08-27T04:19:44 < Getty> karlp: i just like the gimple dumps :D interesting to look at for deeper understanding, no specific big reason
2019-08-27T04:20:06 < Getty> karlp: many of the makefile parameter are copied, i wasn't able to actually learn them all ;)
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2019-08-27T05:25:19 < ohsix> jpa-: the eink article on your website is in the last eevblog video
2019-08-27T05:26:26 <@aandrew> hm
2019-08-27T05:28:38 <@aandrew> anyone else seen freertos timers not expiring? or rather a oneshot timer expires once, but osTimerStart/xTimerChangePeriod() is called on it it doesn't fire anymore (and the timer expiration is a few seconds in the future)
2019-08-27T05:30:26 < mawk> are you sure of your task and nvic priorities ?
2019-08-27T05:30:37 < mawk> and about not exceeding task allocated time
2019-08-27T05:31:02 <@aandrew> yeah I'm thinking it might be the latter
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2019-08-27T05:33:03 <@aandrew> unfortunately HAL likes to obfuscate shit
2019-08-27T05:34:41 < mawk> you have HAL mixed in your freertos thing ?
2019-08-27T05:35:02 <@aandrew> I can see the timer thread is running and prvTimerTask is running
2019-08-27T05:40:14 <@aandrew> well HAL works with it just fine for the most part
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2019-08-27T05:42:39 < Cracki> ugh, cubemx offers freertos with its newlib, but don't expect printf() to work just like that. _sbrk needs modifying and if there's a reference piece of source, I haven't seen it yet. only people having the same problem: hardfault inside the innards of printf, after it enlarges the heap and tries to access something
2019-08-27T05:44:26 < Cracki> still have to sift through some search results and try things... some sketchy code I saw in some youtube video at least lets it run but the constants are magic and arbitrary and the code was even commented out in that dude's video
2019-08-27T05:45:38 < Cracki> someone bothered to compile the wisdom: http://www.nadler.com/embedded/newlibAndFreeRTOS.html
2019-08-27T05:48:26 < Cracki> >strtok() calls malloc()
2019-08-27T05:48:28 < Cracki> newlib tirefire
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2019-08-27T06:00:42 < mawk> yeah Cracki 
2019-08-27T06:00:54 < mawk> you tried strtok_r ?
2019-08-27T06:01:13 < Cracki> i'm leaving that article for tomorrow
2019-08-27T06:01:18 < mawk> also malloc isn't that horrible to make work, it's just integration with freertos that's a bit harsh
2019-08-27T06:01:23 < mawk> ah
2019-08-27T06:01:28 < mawk> you found the article that explains how to do it
2019-08-27T06:01:29 < mawk> good
2019-08-27T06:01:37 < Cracki> I'm lasering some plexiglass and might read it then
2019-08-27T06:01:46 < mawk> it's pretty "difficult"
2019-08-27T06:01:52 < mawk> this article and all the stuff you have to do
2019-08-27T06:02:15 < Cracki> I'm ok with those things so long as they're explained *somewhere"
2019-08-27T06:02:24 < mawk> yeah
2019-08-27T06:02:29 < Cracki> when I debugged that shit, I didn't have source for newlib I could step into
2019-08-27T06:02:30 < mawk> well the newlib doc on stubs is a good place to start
2019-08-27T06:02:39 < mawk> ah yeah that's difficult
2019-08-27T06:02:43 < Cracki> all assembly, with some function names thankfully
2019-08-27T06:03:33 < Cracki> at uni we have a mandatory undergrad lab where we reinvent freertos on atmegas, so I'm ok with calculating memory locations, ranges, etc exactly
2019-08-27T06:04:08 < Cracki> I just wish ST would stop dicking around so much
2019-08-27T06:04:43 < Cracki> they're a big fucking outfit. they should have the money to buy some proper code monkeys and technical writers
2019-08-27T06:06:53 < Cracki> my patience for such BS has really evaporated lately. same waste of time at this fablab here. can't just throw them an STL file. gotta make a date, then they'll hopefully put it in their queue, and if you're fucked you can come get the piece a week later
2019-08-27T06:08:51 < Cracki> they're asking 30 cents per gram/cc. that's 300 eur/kg. steep markup, even for a fancypants stratasys printer that's a decade old
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2019-08-27T06:18:06 < dongs> ok so...
2019-08-27T06:18:21 < mawk> yes ?
2019-08-27T06:18:57 < dongs> i have a fifo that USB thread writes to and another thread reads from.. i'd like to have locking on the fifo modifications so that head/tail/etc counters dont get fucked, but i'd like that to be very fast on write and i don't care if it takes more time on read
2019-08-27T06:19:16 < dongs> what should I do here?
2019-08-27T06:20:18 < dongs> writing involves memcpy so thats not really changeable but i donno if i should lock that or just the bits where head/tail is adjusted
2019-08-27T06:20:37 < mawk> the read must be at least faster than the writes if you don't want overflows and/or lost data right ?
2019-08-27T06:20:40 < dongs> hm sounds like i should beacuse read thread could try to get data thats halfway through a copy
2019-08-27T06:20:45 < mawk> eg if you use a circular buffer
2019-08-27T06:21:03 < dongs> yeah by 'fast' here i mean the lock doesnt take long time
2019-08-27T06:21:16 < dongs> but now that i write it out, i dont think there's a way to make one faster than another
2019-08-27T06:21:38 < dongs> if I lock only metadata changes read thread could get a buffer thats still being written
2019-08-27T06:21:46 < dongs> so i have to lock memcpy + metadata update
2019-08-27T06:21:50 < mawk> if you do double-buffering and write takes the same amount of time as read you write to a buffer while the other is read
2019-08-27T06:22:08 < mawk> then you wait for everyone to finish the operation, and swap buffers or something
2019-08-27T06:26:52 < dongs> i have to copy usb buffer anyway as i'm not guaranteed it will remain, so that's always there
2019-08-27T06:27:02 < dongs> i might be able to not memcpy on read
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2019-08-27T06:39:43 < Cracki> uh...
2019-08-27T06:40:16 < Cracki> ring buffer, yes? reader can't read more than has been committed to the buffer. writer can write into empty space and then increment write ptr at once, at which point that's committed
2019-08-27T06:40:33 < Cracki> so all synchro just needs to deal with read ptr and write ptr
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2019-08-27T06:41:34 < Cracki> if you can make read and writes to those variables atomic (which should be exactly what happens when they're word sized and "volatile" typed), all should be good
2019-08-27T06:42:40 < Cracki> if it's just a fifo with 1 writer 1 reader, shit's trivial
2019-08-27T06:44:14 < Cracki> might require some more alignment, who knows, and might need careful understanding of caches if any
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2019-08-27T06:45:38 < Cracki> oh, ldrexw instruction/intrinsic exists... https://www.keil.com/pack/doc/cmsis/Core/html/group__intrinsic__CPU__gr.html#ga9e3ac13d8dcf4331176b624cf6234a7e
2019-08-27T06:48:08 < Cracki> aha! tagged addresses, curious
2019-08-27T06:48:17 < Cracki> seems to be relevant to multicores only
2019-08-27T06:51:10 < Cracki> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.dht0008a/CJAGCFAF.html
2019-08-27T06:58:07 < Cracki> here they conclude that byte/halfword/word accesses are atomic and not even interrupts, able to interrupt instructions, can mess that up https://stackoverflow.com/questions/52784613/which-variable-types-sizes-are-atomic-on-stm32-microcontrollers
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2019-08-27T08:34:12 < jpa-> ohsix: :)
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2019-08-27T09:32:43 < ohsix> jpa-: how effective was the echo cancellation in the esp walkie talkie?
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2019-08-27T09:36:43 < jpa-> ohsix: no idea, because the audio was otherwise messed up beyond any use
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2019-08-27T09:38:33 < jpa-> but the echo cancellation didn't seem to work as well as i would have hoped, either
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2019-08-27T09:41:30 < ohsix> a friend of mine tried to do something similar to edit out music on youtube and it didn't work, but it seemed clever enough. was interesting to think how it could break with a signal with lots of other stuff in it
2019-08-27T09:43:18 < ohsix> you hear about one tone cancelling if the phase & frequency is the same but once the data you have makes it through a few rounds of stuff messing with the phase; i dunno what it would even sound like
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2019-08-27T12:02:39 < dongs> lol glofo suing TSMC + a bunch of fabless places
2019-08-27T12:02:43 < dongs> for stealing their ip
2019-08-27T12:02:47 < dongs> thats gonna end super well
2019-08-27T12:04:44 < jly> lol
2019-08-27T12:05:09 < Thorn> I heard gigadevices is releasing some risc-v silicon
2019-08-27T12:05:11 < Cracki> glofo sounds glow in the dark
2019-08-27T12:05:29 < Cracki> cheap risc v? finally
2019-08-27T12:07:30 < dongs> Thorn: tehy are, GD32V
2019-08-27T12:07:36 < dongs> which is riscv with STM32 clone peripherals
2019-08-27T12:07:41 < dongs> but the specs look garbage>??
2019-08-27T12:07:47 < dongs> like 8k sram and 64k flash
2019-08-27T12:07:59 < dongs> i thought the whole point of dick-v was hueg rams and like 400mhz cpu
2019-08-27T12:14:17 < qyx> gd32v? mhm
2019-08-27T12:14:31 < dongs> https://www.cnx-software.com/2019/08/23/gigadevice-gd32v-risc-v-mcu-development-board/
2019-08-27T12:14:48 < dongs> you can already buy chinkchips
2019-08-27T12:16:46 < qyx> lol they also have a nucleo-like board
2019-08-27T12:16:50 < dongs> yes
2019-08-27T12:17:07 < dongs> with cloned stlink
2019-08-27T12:17:21 < qyx> full china
2019-08-27T12:17:36 < dongs> i was fucking with GD32 teh other day (stm clone) and had a bit of trouble trying to unlock the shit which was protected with like level 3 rop
2019-08-27T12:17:49 < dongs> eventually found some .jflash script which poked option bytes directly to clear et
2019-08-27T12:17:52 < dongs> it
2019-08-27T12:17:58 < dongs> regular mass erase instruction didnt wrok
2019-08-27T12:18:10 < dongs> and boot0 was perm tied to gnd so  i couldnt use that part to erase
2019-08-27T12:18:31 < dongs> hmm GD32V has OTG
2019-08-27T12:18:38 < dongs> in 48pin pkg
2019-08-27T12:18:44 < dongs> so i geuss thats a bit better than stm F103
2019-08-27T12:18:56 < dongs> only 105 has OTG and thats 64pin minimum
2019-08-27T12:19:01 < dongs> or was it 107
2019-08-27T12:19:25 < Thorn> 105 and 107
2019-08-27T12:19:48 < qyx> but who uses f1 nowadays
2019-08-27T12:20:44 < dongs> thorn
2019-08-27T12:20:56 < Thorn> "bluepill" make:rs
2019-08-27T12:21:00 < dongs> i did move almost all my shit to F042
2019-08-27T12:21:06 < Thorn> I haven't used f1 since 2012
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2019-08-27T12:24:57 < Thorn> but if dongs starts using risc-v will have to ditch his $7000 dev tools and use a free compiler, how is that possible
2019-08-27T12:25:15 < dongs> lol, will it be supported by visualgdb?
2019-08-27T12:25:17 < dongs> i could eal with that
2019-08-27T12:25:19 < dongs> deal
2019-08-27T12:25:33 < dongs> https://visualgdb.com/tutorials/risc-v/
2019-08-27T12:25:35 < dongs> looks like works
2019-08-27T12:26:20 < karlp> anyone seen real prices on gd32v?
2019-08-27T12:26:29 < dongs> whats unreal about the ones linked in pic?
2019-08-27T12:26:49 < karlp> I didn't see any prices wiith it on the cnxsoft?
2019-08-27T12:27:02 < dongs> Best of all, you can already buy the microcontroller on Tmall, with for example GD32VF103TBU6 (QFN36, 64KB flash) going for 9 RMB ($1.27)  per sample, and as low as $6.80 RMB ($0.95) per unit for ~3K orders, and the top of the line GD32VF103VBT6 (LQFQ100) going for 15 RMB ($2.11) for a single part, or 9.35 RMB ($1.31) per unit for 500 pieces orders. 
2019-08-27T12:27:11 < karlp> vm, see it now
2019-08-27T12:27:45 < Thorn> nothing in lcsc yet
2019-08-27T12:30:58 < Thorn> wait, did GD clone dwc_otg? or did they actually license it? or what
2019-08-27T12:35:51 < karlp> they're a formally listed arm licensee, I dont' really see why we all assume they stole everything.
2019-08-27T12:36:50 < Thorn> because they cloned ST peripherals
2019-08-27T12:37:10 < Thorn> (I assume they didn't license the whole set of peripherals from ST)?
2019-08-27T12:37:21 < jly> lol
2019-08-27T12:38:00 < Thorn> thus the question about 3rd party peripherals like dwc_otg and ethernet
2019-08-27T12:39:17 < karlp> where do we really have it that they stole st periphs?  they're been around far too long now for that to to have just been ignored.
2019-08-27T12:39:42 < karlp> also, is there precedent for "register compatible" peripherals? 
2019-08-27T12:41:17 < Thorn> well "stole" depends on your political position, they reimplemented them (adding their own bugs for sure)
2019-08-27T12:41:54 < Thorn> if you're ST you can claim they stole your IP after consulting with your lawyers
2019-08-27T12:42:53 < PaulFertser> What kind of an "IP" is peripheral registers layout?
2019-08-27T12:43:11 < PaulFertser> (where "IP" stands for "Imaginary Property")
2019-08-27T12:43:11 < karlp> Thorn:the fact that they _hahven't_ would say to me that that's not what the lawyers say at all.
2019-08-27T12:43:34 < karlp> I've only ever seen community people go "omg gd stole stm32!"!!!!!"!
2019-08-27T12:43:57 < jpa-> considering that compaq making compatible BIOS for PC's was ok, i'd guess register placements are similarly non-copyrightable API
2019-08-27T12:44:27 < PaulFertser> Exactly
2019-08-27T12:45:15 < jpa-> but i wouldn't be *that* surprised if ST allowed this just until GD gains enough tracktion, and then sue anyway
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2019-08-27T12:49:01 < englishman> good morning innovators
2019-08-27T12:49:22 < englishman> back in the tesla today
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2019-08-27T12:50:09 < englishman> Taiwan is great
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2019-08-27T12:52:11 < Thorn> moneyed westerners
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2019-08-27T13:41:33 < englishman> the tco of a model 3 is less than a camry in the majority of cases
2019-08-27T13:45:22 < englishman> i guess that is still higher than trabant
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2019-08-27T14:19:54 < Cracki> "Rennpappe"
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2019-08-27T15:09:08 < qyx> camry is the one with engine ecu runaway?
2019-08-27T15:18:33 < fenugrec> wasn't it the corolla
2019-08-27T15:19:45 < fenugrec> some RTOS issue (recursion ?) that caused undetected/unfixed task death, I forget the details
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2019-08-27T15:45:23 < PaulFertser> Both were recalled: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9311_Toyota_vehicle_recalls
2019-08-27T15:46:51 < PaulFertser> And the Barr's investigation into the code didn't find anything specific, just "a single bit flip which can be caused by cosmic rays could cause unintended acceleration" (_could_).
2019-08-27T15:48:02 < karlp> I like this bit, "The Camry's braking distances with a purposely stuck accelerator were also shorter than that of the Ford Taurus' regular stopping distance."
2019-08-27T15:48:58 < nuxil> hi 
2019-08-27T15:50:23 < nuxil> i got a nucleo64 F446, and im woundering if it can be powerd by 5v though the gpio header, like one can with pi and arduios. ?
2019-08-27T15:51:25 < PaulFertser> karlp: my opinion is that all the accidents were actually driver errors, even if you accelerator is stuck you should still be able to remain in control if you're a worthy driver.
2019-08-27T15:52:17 < PaulFertser> nuxil: I suggest you look at its schematics
2019-08-27T15:52:27 < PaulFertser> nuxil: I'd guess it should be safe
2019-08-27T15:53:39 < nuxil> PaulFertser, i will. 2nd question. i setup timer 6. and i want to change the periode it triggers on the fly. i tried in my main loop and change the htim6.Init.Period = newval. but this was fail. however when i use TIM6->ARR = newval it works. why does it not work with the 1st method?; ;
2019-08-27T15:53:43 < karlp> PaulFertser: all the tests referred to would agree that "maybe it got stuck, but the brakes still worked, so... "
2019-08-27T15:54:18 < karlp> nuxil: the structure is just an argument for a functoin call that initializes things...
2019-08-27T15:54:23 < karlp> did you call that function again too?
2019-08-27T15:54:28 < PaulFertser> nuxil: what exactly is supposed to be changing the periph register in your first method?
2019-08-27T15:54:43 < PaulFertser> karlp: not only the brakes but also the gear selector.
2019-08-27T15:54:57 < nuxil> karlp, i see.  
2019-08-27T15:55:30 < nuxil> PaulFertser, im mesing with the dac. and i want to output waveforms at different frequencys. 
2019-08-27T15:55:49 < PaulFertser> karlp: and in the particular court case with a dead passenger the driver used the parking brake during a turn so no wonder the car went into an uncontrollable drift! 
2019-08-27T15:55:53 < PaulFertser> nuxil: 
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2019-08-27T15:56:19 < PaulFertser> What karlp said, changing a struct doesn't affect anything.
2019-08-27T15:56:56 < nuxil> yea. makes sense now. 
2019-08-27T15:57:01 < nuxil> thanks
2019-08-27T15:58:11 < PaulFertser> nuxil: probably you might want to use libopencm3 instead, its API is much saner.
2019-08-27T15:59:11 < nuxil> thanks for the advice. i'll look into it.
2019-08-27T15:59:45 < PaulFertser> nuxil: or if you're into C++, stm32plus might be more appealing.
2019-08-27T16:00:06 < PaulFertser> Rust supports stm32 too.
2019-08-27T16:00:31 < karlp> so does forth and ada and all sorts of crazy shit :)
2019-08-27T16:00:44 < nuxil> i dont do C++, i do only some C. and still learning it. C++ is a beast i want nothing to do with.
2019-08-27T16:01:08 < PaulFertser> libopencm3 it is then
2019-08-27T16:01:13 < nuxil> :)
2019-08-27T16:01:43 < karlp> holy fuck, if intertek are the "good guys" compared to UL, I hope I never have to ever deal with UL.
2019-08-27T16:11:51 < Ultrasauce> did you actually read barr's deposition PaulFertser?
2019-08-27T16:11:53 < Ultrasauce> highly recommend it
2019-08-27T16:12:00 < Ultrasauce> http://www.safetyresearch.net/Library/Bookout_v_Toyota_Barr_REDACTED.pdf
2019-08-27T16:13:03 < PaulFertser> Ultrasauce: some people here did and were mostly enjoying it after I suggested reading it few years ago.
2019-08-27T16:13:17 < PaulFertser> So I agree, highly recommended :)
2019-08-27T16:33:43 < dongs> wow
2019-08-27T16:33:56 < dongs> i installed 64bit lunix driver for a PC/SC card reader today
2019-08-27T16:34:00 < dongs> from 2011
2019-08-27T16:34:02 < dongs> and it still works
2019-08-27T16:34:05 < dongs> im fucking shocked
2019-08-27T16:34:09 < dongs> it was a binary, too
2019-08-27T16:34:31 < dongs> i think this is the first time i've seen any lunix piece of shitware work that was older than a month or two
2019-08-27T16:35:25 < PaulFertser> Surprising indeed.
2019-08-27T16:35:40 < dongs> http://www.castlestech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/201511920271676073.zip chinese thing
2019-08-27T16:35:47 < rajkosto> linux has... binary drivers ?
2019-08-27T16:36:03 < rajkosto> the kernel module API breaks compatibility every minor version so you wouldnt think running something from 2011 was possible
2019-08-27T16:36:06 < PaulFertser> Yes, when hardware manufacturer is stupid enough.
2019-08-27T16:36:09 < salcedo> no. linux is fully open source and respects your privacy.
2019-08-27T16:36:11 < dongs>  57562 Jun 21  2011 ezusb.so
2019-08-27T16:36:19 < rajkosto> EZ USB
2019-08-27T16:36:22 < rajkosto> BACK AT IT
2019-08-27T16:36:25 < dongs> not the ezusb youre thinking
2019-08-27T16:36:36 < rajkosto> ezusb for lyf yo
2019-08-27T16:36:52 < dongs> hm its statically linked
2019-08-27T16:36:54 < dongs> i guess taht explains it
2019-08-27T16:36:55 < dongs> haha
2019-08-27T16:37:09 < rajkosto> also... .so ?
2019-08-27T16:37:13 < rajkosto> thats not a kernel driver
2019-08-27T16:37:33 < dongs> its a PC/SC driver so yes, not a kernel
2019-08-27T16:37:47 < rajkosto> oh thats why it works
2019-08-27T16:37:58 < rajkosto> yeah completely statically linked usermode stuff works
2019-08-27T16:38:01 < rajkosto> its how steam games work
2019-08-27T16:38:23 < dongs> no you can still get fucked with glibc versioning
2019-08-27T16:38:24 < rajkosto> as soon as it depends even on libc it breaks across distro releases
2019-08-27T16:38:24 < dongs> despite it being static
2019-08-27T16:39:41 < rajkosto> actually how the hell does the vc runtime being the same since vs2015 work
2019-08-27T16:39:46 < rajkosto> i guess they just dont put anything into that dll
2019-08-27T16:39:52 < rajkosto> statically link all the C++ stuff
2019-08-27T16:40:06 < dongs> i always static link my .exes, dll runtime is retarded as fuck
2019-08-27T16:40:21 < rajkosto> dll runtime is pretty much required if you have dlls of your own
2019-08-27T16:40:25 < dongs> no?
2019-08-27T16:40:29 < rajkosto> kinda yes
2019-08-27T16:40:40 < dongs> no its not
2019-08-27T16:40:43 < rajkosto> otherwise they each get their own copy of the C++ locale, allocator, etc
2019-08-27T16:40:53 < dongs> oh C++ i dont know/care
2019-08-27T16:40:56 < rajkosto> cant interoperate as much as when vcruntime is shared
2019-08-27T16:41:13 < dongs> ive written tons of C stuff on windows in dll and exe and both forms (as in exe wiht some dlls around it) and never had issues
2019-08-27T16:41:30 < rajkosto> cant make objects in one dll and delete them in another reliably
2019-08-27T16:42:00 < rajkosto> but by them removing as much stuff from vcruntime as they could before 2015 most of the c++ stuff ends up being statically linked anyway
2019-08-27T16:42:01 < dongs> why would you ever want to do that anyway.
2019-08-27T16:42:26 < rajkosto> it happens
2019-08-27T16:42:59 < rajkosto> also when statically linking, your exe size will usually be smalelr than exe dynamic + vcruntime dll
2019-08-27T16:43:08 < rajkosto> but if you have multiple modules, its less space to include the dll
2019-08-27T16:43:12 < rajkosto> since you CAN include it it doesnt really matter
2019-08-27T16:43:33 < rajkosto> in 2008/2010 they had the stupid clause that you have to use their SxS installer 
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2019-08-27T17:35:38 < Thorn> dragon departure https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjNzSscCEa8
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2019-08-27T18:16:06 < IRC-Source_72> Hey guys, is MEMRMP from SYSCFG register, read-only? I'm trying to modify it so that I cant set BOOT1, with "SYSCFG->MEMRMP = (0x1 << 0U)" but it's always zero
2019-08-27T18:16:36 < IRC-Source_72> I'm reading it's value back with "SYSCFG->MEMRMP & SYSCFG_MEMRMP_MEM_BOOT"
2019-08-27T18:16:45 < IRC-Source_72> this, on a stm32F767
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2019-08-27T18:30:52 < karlp> did you turn on syscfg in rcc?
2019-08-27T18:33:37 <@aandrew> possibly old news to most of you, but worth keeping handy: http://www.nadler.com/embedded/newlibAndFreeRTOS.html
2019-08-27T18:40:45 < mawk> wow there has been a recent update
2019-08-27T18:40:46 < mawk> to that post
2019-08-27T18:40:48 < karlp> new to me, I've just been using it and it's jsut been working... but I guess I've just not be under stack pressure,
2019-08-27T18:41:32 < IRC-Source_72> karlp I'm using chibios, and I've picked up the code after some other guy left. Somwhere where I can check that?
2019-08-27T18:41:33 < mawk> it's about race conditions I think
2019-08-27T18:41:45 < mawk> the sbrk stubs do nothing to protect for reentrancy
2019-08-27T18:42:03 < mawk> both the standard newlib ones and the stm32cubeIDE ones (which are almost identical)
2019-08-27T18:42:20 < karlp> IRC-Source_72:in your init? I don't know your code, where do you turn on clocks?
2019-08-27T18:42:49 < karlp> mawk: well, it's also where your malloc would malloc form, and if that will ever crash with with freertos is managing.
2019-08-27T18:43:19 < karlp> like, I've got a bunch of little demo shit that has never provided _sbrk, and I do printf with %f....
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2019-08-27T18:43:33 < karlp> and I've carried that into some recent freertos trials and ... no problems? (yet)
2019-08-27T18:43:49 < mawk> if you don't define sbrk yourself it's defined in newlib itself
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2019-08-27T18:44:07 < mawk> in libnosys.a
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2019-08-27T18:44:59 < karlp> yeah, so if you're just doing -lnosys then all the other advice about "omg must implement all these stubs" is jsut cargo culting.
2019-08-27T18:45:44 < mawk> they implement only the basic version of stubs without any locking
2019-08-27T18:45:52 < mawk> specifically you have _sbrk defined in libnosys.a, but not _sbrk_r
2019-08-27T18:46:33 < mawk> or alternatively you could implement malloc_lock and malloc_unlock, which is what the page is doing
2019-08-27T18:55:58 < Thorn> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuqoXN1edoQ
2019-08-27T18:57:01 < dongs> IRC-Source_72: uhh, boot1 is set by either option bytes or hardware pin
2019-08-27T18:57:10 < dongs> you don't modify it in syscfg
2019-08-27T18:58:09 < dongs> waht good would remapping that do after boot anyway
2019-08-27T18:58:13 < dongs> you're already booted
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2019-08-27T19:00:13 < karlp> Thorn: already finished with that one, it pðlayed after the last one you linked :)
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2019-08-27T19:52:51 < Cracki> the two largest hardware stores near me only stock polystyrene "plexiglass", not acrylic or polycarbonate...
2019-08-27T20:17:09 < salcedo> and you're not allowed to use the cutter yourself because of liability.
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2019-08-27T20:17:47 < salcedo> instead, you must wait 30 minutes for them to find someone who used it once or twice. give them the measurements.
2019-08-27T20:18:17 < salcedo> you receive something that isn't a rectangle and at least 5cm out of tolerance
2019-08-27T20:22:58  * antto cuts into the conversation like a cold rusty knife thru yellow cheese
2019-08-27T20:26:33 < mawk> dongs: it's for resets I think
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2019-08-27T20:58:04 < Cracki> the laser cutter cuts through acrylic like it's butter
2019-08-27T20:58:18 < Cracki> but I should mess with the settings. I'm sure these people have no clue how the lens is focused.
2019-08-27T21:12:11 < Thorn> fuck git with a fir tree
2019-08-27T21:12:28 < Thorn> git checkout -f branch deletes ALL changes
2019-08-27T21:13:22 < Thorn> thankfully I have 40 open files in vs code so I could restore it all with ctrl+Z
2019-08-27T21:16:14 < Cracki> use a gui client. they are smart about this.
2019-08-27T21:16:55 < Thorn> gitcra[c]ken is even worse
2019-08-27T21:17:54 < Thorn> for example it's displaying changes already committed to another branch as uncommitted
2019-08-27T21:18:20 < Thorn> and when you try to stage those, Einstein divides by zero
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2019-08-27T21:31:39 < qyx> thats because of -f
2019-08-27T21:31:46 < qyx> never do thjings with -f
2019-08-27T21:34:30 < jpa-> snapshots of whole /home every few minutes save from a lot of oops
2019-08-27T21:36:12 < qyx> uhm
2019-08-27T21:36:59 < mawk> really jpa- ?
2019-08-27T21:37:26 < mawk> I guess it's ok if you use zfs or btrfs
2019-08-27T21:37:35 < mawk> otherwise I'm not that rich in HDDs
2019-08-27T21:38:16 < jpa-> i use btrfs, but yeah, zfs can do it also and so can lvm + any filesystem
2019-08-27T21:38:31 < jpa-> even windows + ntfs can do it
2019-08-27T21:38:37 < mawk> nice
2019-08-27T21:39:47 < jpa-> only slows down first new edit to file after a snapshot, but even that is a theoretical concern, i don't detect any slowdown
2019-08-27T21:43:32 < kakimir> Steffanx: Waterworld is pretty fun movie
2019-08-27T21:43:47 < kakimir> I think it's 2years ago you recommended it
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2019-08-27T21:50:28 < kakimir> very good recommendation
2019-08-27T21:56:58 < Steffanx> heh
2019-08-27T21:57:15 < kakimir> I think it was bad luck to turn that movie down first
2019-08-27T21:57:32 < Steffanx> i loved that movie as a kid
2019-08-27T21:57:40 < kakimir> I loved it now
2019-08-27T22:03:59 < Steffanx> since then im unable to unsee this guy as mr waterworld
2019-08-27T22:04:54 < kakimir> hasn't he been the knight in multiple movies?
2019-08-27T22:05:28 < BrainDamage> I always hallucinate gills every time I see him
2019-08-27T22:05:48 < BrainDamage> which makes a pretty weird robin hood character
2019-08-27T22:06:15 < Steffanx> haha, indeed. or some cia guy.
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2019-08-27T22:21:45 < Steffanx> So what movie to watch kakimir  
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2019-08-27T22:22:25 < kakimir> you need counter recomendation?
2019-08-27T22:22:38 < Steffanx> Ofcourse.
2019-08-27T22:26:28 < kakimir> comedy ok?
2019-08-27T22:28:52 < kakimir> teen comedy
2019-08-27T22:30:48 < Steffanx> No, comedy tends to be boring
2019-08-27T22:37:36 < kakimir> romantic comedy?
2019-08-27T22:38:02 < kakimir> it's what I have been scooping latelly
2019-08-27T22:41:04 < salcedo> the free state of jones
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2019-08-27T22:44:25 < kakimir> Steffanx: johny depp's latest movies excluding poc saga?
2019-08-27T22:47:08 < kakimir> hey how about The Tournament.. if you like battle royale type of movie?
2019-08-27T22:48:31 < kakimir> wait a minute
2019-08-27T22:48:39 < kakimir> we watched one really good movie
2019-08-27T22:48:45 < kakimir> with friends
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2019-08-27T22:51:00 < kakimir> Steffanx: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mule_(2018_film)
2019-08-27T22:51:31 < kakimir> don't read it
2019-08-27T22:51:36 < kakimir> just for title
2019-08-27T22:52:30 < kakimir> gran torino was good also I don't remember it anymore but it was good
2019-08-27T22:53:30 < Steffanx> I recall I bought this movie for free, started to watch it but didnt finish it.
2019-08-27T22:53:35 < Steffanx> The mule that is
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2019-08-27T22:54:33 < kakimir> it moved in kinda unhuried pace that movie
2019-08-27T22:55:39 < Steffanx> I'm not a big fan of the Clint. Is that bad?
2019-08-27T22:56:09 < Thorn> who needs movies when ST has a lot of video training on youtube?
2019-08-27T22:56:17 < kakimir> we liked it.. my friend's wife cried twice and my friend became horny, we others just enjoyed bad assery of clint even as granpa
2019-08-27T22:57:47 < Thorn> plus there's a live feed of a water tower https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0MTtqzzf-U
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2019-08-27T22:57:59 < Steffanx> Fuck youtube.
2019-08-27T22:58:28 < Steffanx> Fuck ST talking about their awesome HAL
2019-08-27T22:58:58 < kakimir> it's just a HAL
2019-08-27T22:59:38 < salcedo> back in the day when i had the innanet
2019-08-27T22:59:45 < salcedo> i watched some of those ST HAL videos on youtube.
2019-08-27T23:00:34 < Ultrasauce> why is everyone who runs amateur streams related to spacex so obnoxious
2019-08-27T23:01:37 < salcedo> they think their hero elon is going to give them tickets to elysium
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2019-08-27T23:09:24 < Steffanx> Yes tell me Ultrasauce 
2019-08-27T23:09:47 < Ultrasauce> is it you
2019-08-27T23:10:35 < Steffanx> Nah.. 
2019-08-27T23:11:47 < Steffanx>  If it were me the english would be worse. This Ultrasauce no longer uses the uncommon english words.
2019-08-27T23:13:39 < Ultrasauce> please like & subscribe
2019-08-27T23:15:07 < Steffanx> Can I up vote and endorse too?
2019-08-27T23:15:33 < Ultrasauce> updoots to the left
2019-08-27T23:24:20 < catphish> hello sirs
2019-08-27T23:28:05 < Steffanx> Hello catphisher
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2019-08-27T23:48:18 < Thorn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnitidPpMgc
2019-08-27T23:56:39 < karlp> how would one interpret lgpl for verilog code?
2019-08-27T23:58:05 < Ultrasauce> with a ten foot pole
--- Day changed Wed Aug 28 2019
2019-08-28T00:00:21 < PaulFertser> karlp: I guess same as with any other code, basically, if you use the code you need to give all your modifications under LGPL plus you need to provide the end-user with means to use their own version of that code.
2019-08-28T00:01:17 < catphish> 1) ianal, so who knows 2) afaik the idea of lgpl is that you can distribute it in your binaries without fear, as long as you return any changes you make to the original code
2019-08-28T00:01:21 < PaulFertser> (as LGPLv3 is basically GPLv3)
2019-08-28T00:01:42 < PaulFertser> catphish: GPLv3 prevents tivoization, so LGPLv3 does too
2019-08-28T00:01:59 < karlp> Ultrasauce: that's my interpretation
2019-08-28T00:02:15 < catphish> i have no idea what tivoization is :)
2019-08-28T00:02:16 < karlp> PaulFertser: I can't see anyway you can possibly use lgpl verilog without having to effectively share your own too.
2019-08-28T00:02:40 < Ultrasauce> two separate fpgas?
2019-08-28T00:02:41 < PaulFertser> karlp: but you can share your own under any license, plus you can obfuscate it etc.
2019-08-28T00:02:42 < catphish> but my understanding was that the idea of lgpl was to *allow* the code to be used in closed source applications without worry
2019-08-28T00:03:13 < karlp> catphish: and when you have an environment that supports dynamic linkking, that's .... somewhat straightforward.
2019-08-28T00:03:33 < karlp> PaulFertser:yes, I can hand over the rtl and say, "but it's mine, you can't hve it" but.... right...
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2019-08-28T00:03:46 < catphish> i suppose the only oddity is the line between what constitutes a modification vs separate code of your own
2019-08-28T00:04:04 < karlp> no, the difficult bit is "how to allow the user to replace the lgpl portions with their own"
2019-08-28T00:04:07 < PaulFertser> karlp: what'd be wrong with it? You give user ability to use his/her own version of LGPL'd code, that's it.
2019-08-28T00:04:29 < karlp> PaulFertser: because I can't see a way of doing it without "visible, let's not say open" source for the "private" portion
2019-08-28T00:04:51 < catphish> oh i see, you're supposed to keep the components separate, and lgpl protects you as long as you do
2019-08-28T00:04:56 < karlp> so while the _intent_ may have been lgpl ala linux, the effect is gpl.
2019-08-28T00:05:00 < PaulFertser> karlp: obfuscation, plus licensing that prevents this code from be used in a way you do not want it to be used.
2019-08-28T00:05:24 < PaulFertser> GPL allows neither
2019-08-28T00:05:54 < catphish> so in the case of HDL, this seems pretty easy, right? you keep the LGPL as HDL, and your proprietary modules as binary modules
2019-08-28T00:06:48 < catphish> (assuming HDL has a good way to do this)
2019-08-28T00:07:38 < catphish> is it required that you allow people to change / replace the lgpl components and recompile?
2019-08-28T00:07:52 < karlp> yes.
2019-08-28T00:07:59 < karlp> you must allow the lgpl portions to be user replaced.
2019-08-28T00:08:02 < catphish> i didn't know that, how annoying
2019-08-28T00:08:19 < karlp> for embedded, this can be just "here are my private .o files, or a bin and a makefile that relinks things"
2019-08-28T00:08:21 < karlp> but I can
2019-08-28T00:08:23 < catphish> so with FPGA, you'd need to provide the sources, but presumably with your own modules obfuscated
2019-08-28T00:08:28 < karlp> 't see anything sane for HDL 
2019-08-28T00:08:50 < catphish> don't FPGAs always have proprietary modules you can link?
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2019-08-28T00:09:45 < catphish> i assumes they had a part-compiled state for nonfee modules
2019-08-28T00:09:51 < catphish> but don't know the details
2019-08-28T00:10:23 < BrainDamage> catphish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_core
2019-08-28T00:12:51 < catphish> "A gate-level netlist" - that's what i'm getting at
2019-08-28T00:13:17 < catphish> presumably you can provide your closed modules in that format, and the LGPL stuff, as HDL, and everyone wins?
2019-08-28T00:15:03 < Ultrasauce> ipcore is my favourite genre of music
2019-08-28T00:17:00 < kakimir> wallace and grommit Steffanx?
2019-08-28T00:21:04 < kakimir> I saw it when it came out in 2000 something
2019-08-28T00:22:02 < kakimir> I have let you down steff haven't I..
2019-08-28T00:23:38 < Steffanx> Not sure.
2019-08-28T00:29:16 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSGFt6w0wok maybe I will watch this now
2019-08-28T00:30:18 < kakimir> bad google user ratings but good imbd ratings
2019-08-28T00:30:47 < kakimir> rotten tomatoes 66%
2019-08-28T00:45:13 < Steffanx> Hm
2019-08-28T00:47:04 < kakimir> I'll minesweep it for you
2019-08-28T00:47:37 < kakimir> I have no expectations
2019-08-28T00:50:13 < Thorn> 10-15 min to the hop
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2019-08-28T00:50:31 < Thorn> flare & sirens
2019-08-28T00:50:53 < Thorn> spacex stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYb3bfA6_sQ
2019-08-28T00:52:57 < Thorn> T - 4 min
2019-08-28T00:58:32 < salcedo> we need a bot that says "Our Hero Elon!!!" every time someone pastes a spacex stream.
2019-08-28T00:58:33 < specing> Thorn: the shitcan is still on the ground
2019-08-28T00:59:15 < mawk> I have an impression of déjà-vu
2019-08-28T00:59:34 < Thorn> don't call it shitcan. Elon will be disappointed.
2019-08-28T00:59:54 < specing> it is what it is
2019-08-28T01:00:15 < Thorn> T - 2 min
2019-08-28T01:00:21 < specing> COUNTDOWN ACTIVATED
2019-08-28T01:00:59 < Thorn> T - 1 min
2019-08-28T01:02:30 < Thorn> how about now? still shitcan?
2019-08-28T01:02:35 < BrainDamage> the shock diamonds looks nice
2019-08-28T01:02:42 < BrainDamage> but that's one goofy as hell vehicle
2019-08-28T01:03:22 < Ultrasauce> it didnt explode, why even both
2019-08-28T01:03:22 < Ultrasauce> er
2019-08-28T01:03:47 < Thorn> the everyday astronaut has had an orgasm
2019-08-28T01:04:06 < Ultrasauce> his rocket launched
2019-08-28T01:04:13 < mawk> lol
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2019-08-28T01:11:53 < Thorn> btw a huge tl;dr https://everydayastronaut.com/raptor-engine/
2019-08-28T01:20:20 < machinehum> For some reason WWDG_IRQHandler is being called when I'm using EXTI15_10_IRQn
2019-08-28T01:22:10 < Steffanx> It usually means you have no handler for the interrupt being called
2019-08-28T01:22:57 < Thorn> yeah gdb reports one of the weak aliases for the default handler for some reason
2019-08-28T01:23:10 < Thorn> when the default handler is called
2019-08-28T01:23:57 < Steffanx> Yeah, no other handler than the default one ofcourse :)
2019-08-28T01:25:06 < machinehum> Yeah that was it
2019-08-28T01:25:21 < machinehum> Had the handler in a c++ file, didn't wrap with the extern c thing
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2019-08-28T02:12:32 < karlp> bleh, kicad "add bom script" hangs trying topen my home dir.  it's a damn file browser
2019-08-28T02:25:30 < karlp> annnnd it's my own nfs mounts hanging in the homedir. nice
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2019-08-28T02:55:47 < ColdKeyboard> Are these ceramic capacitors -> https://i.imgur.com/nSL45fZ.png ?
2019-08-28T02:56:06 < ColdKeyboard> On the schematic they are "described" as polarized but on the PCB they look as ceramic 0603/0805
2019-08-28T02:56:26 < ColdKeyboard> https://i.imgur.com/P8hcQcL.png
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2019-08-28T03:18:03 < karlp> or just shitty schematic symbols? is it only C1 that is polarized? it has the + symbol?
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2019-08-28T03:21:11 < ColdKeyboard> I mean the schematic is either intentionally bad or it is supposed to be that bad...
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2019-08-28T03:21:36 < ColdKeyboard> i.e. C10 - side is on VCC and + is on GND
2019-08-28T03:21:52 < ColdKeyboard> So I guess the schematic is more of a "reference"
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2019-08-28T03:43:34 < Ultrasauce> ColdKeyboard: -|(- is not polarized unless there's a + on the symbol
2019-08-28T03:44:15 < Ultrasauce> C1 is the only polarized cap in that schematic
2019-08-28T03:45:32 < karlp> that's how I read it too.
2019-08-28T03:48:47 < Ultrasauce> (which also appears to be both incorrect and not corresponding to the physical circuit)
2019-08-28T03:51:09 < jadew> I might need glasses
2019-08-28T03:51:32 < jadew> I think I erased and re-typed a - character 5 times because I thought I'm typing = by mistake
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2019-08-28T04:05:05 < ColdKeyboard> Wait, so what's the point of -|(- symbol then without + and -?
2019-08-28T04:05:11 < ColdKeyboard> Why not use -||- then?
2019-08-28T04:06:11 < Ultrasauce> they probably just hit the first one in the list or whatever
2019-08-28T04:06:34 < Ultrasauce> sometimes the two are used to differentiate two different types of capacitor but otherwise there are no specific semantics
2019-08-28T04:08:10 < ColdKeyboard> Interesting. And yes, the schematic seems to be drawn intentionally wrong
2019-08-28T04:10:52 < dongs> ColdKeyboard: looks like a disgusting eagle/kikecad schematic made using random components downloaded from aidsfruit library of terror
2019-08-28T04:11:15 < dongs> oh god also using 0.002u as symbol
2019-08-28T04:11:23 < dongs> fuck outta here
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2019-08-28T04:22:45 < ColdKeyboard> To be fair DigiKey lists their caps like that too...
2019-08-28T04:22:50 < dongs> no?
2019-08-28T04:23:27 < dongs> 0.02uF is 20000pF or 20nF on digikey
2019-08-28T04:23:30 < dongs> definitely not as 0.02uF
2019-08-28T04:24:10 < dongs> just try search 0.02uF vs 20000pF for 0603
2019-08-28T04:24:15 < dongs> 6 vs like 1000+ results
2019-08-28T04:25:17 < dongs> oh hm. 20000pF brings up more shit, which if actuaslyl filtered by capacitante goes back to 6
2019-08-28T04:25:21 < dongs> this is new
2019-08-28T04:25:33 < dongs> i'm almost certain they did not use to do this
2019-08-28T04:25:42 < karlp> every now and then you see some dumb shit in their lists.
2019-08-28T04:26:58 < mawk> sometimes there are both
2019-08-28T04:27:07 < mawk> 0.02µF or 20nF
2019-08-28T04:27:20 < mawk> at the same time
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2019-08-28T04:35:16 < ColdKeyboard> They can mark it as 0.000000020 as far as I'm concerned, as long I can find the thing I'm looking for :)
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2019-08-28T12:16:38 < Steffanx> Hi jly
2019-08-28T12:16:56 < englishman> hello steffy
2019-08-28T12:16:57 < jly> and they came bounding over
2019-08-28T12:21:01 < jly> https://youtu.be/5qEFFR8gX6k?t=23
2019-08-28T12:21:53 < Steffanx> Hello mr englishman  
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2019-08-28T12:29:28 < jly> hello mister stefan san
2019-08-28T12:33:16 < Steffanx> Ty
2019-08-28T12:38:50 < dongs> hello dongs
2019-08-28T12:40:53 < jly> yo
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2019-08-28T13:15:04 < karlp> well, this is fun.  Tsamp for the internl temp sensor on the l1 says "min 4usecs, guaranteed by design"
2019-08-28T13:17:21 < karlp> with 16Mhz adc clock, that's 96 clocks sampling time for the minimum allowed.
2019-08-28T13:17:30 < karlp> so 192 should be plenty.
2019-08-28T13:17:51 < karlp> with 192, if I sampel it once, I get the "right" value.  if I sample it 12 times in arow, i get one good, then 11 high.
2019-08-28T13:18:05 < karlp> if I increase it to 384 sample clocks, I get 12 of the same values in a row.
2019-08-28T13:19:48 < karlp> not mentioned as an errata though.
2019-08-28T13:23:09 < karlp> hrm.  I wonder....
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2019-08-28T13:32:33 < jpa-> karlp: the datasheet revision i have (DocID17659 rev 12) says min 10 µs
2019-08-28T13:43:51 < karlp> 10us for startup, not for sampling.
2019-08-28T13:44:03 < karlp> 192sampling clocks is higher than that anyway, and sitll gives me shitty results.
2019-08-28T13:46:36 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/sampling.png
2019-08-28T13:47:18 < jpa-> but yeah, 192 should be plenty even then
2019-08-28T13:48:08  * karlp checks and finds he is reading an uptodate errata and an out of date datasheet
2019-08-28T13:48:20 < karlp> but yeah, 192 is what I had in the past.
2019-08-28T13:48:39 < karlp> I did some bad maths ages ago and decided that ~12C selfheating was "correct"
2019-08-28T13:48:56 < karlp> went back to review it and decided that was wrong, but that meant I could no longer accept the temp readings as correct anymore.
2019-08-28T13:49:15 < karlp> using 384 I get ~exactly ambient plus my newly calculated selfheating ofr like just under 3
2019-08-28T14:37:12 < karlp> jpa-: eg, with 192, sample_buffer = {2045, 625, 628, 1514, 2047, 613, 625, 1511, 2046, 616, 627, 1513, 2045, 616, 626, 1512, 2045, 615, 627
2019-08-28T14:37:27 < karlp> the "600" samples ar ethe temp sensor and should be stable.
2019-08-28T14:38:57 < jpa-> karlp: looks like i've used 96 clocks sampling at 4MHz ADC clock
2019-08-28T14:44:27 < karlp> were you saving power with that?
2019-08-28T14:44:59 < karlp> and yeah, 96@4mhz is ~same as 384 with 16
2019-08-28T14:55:53 < karlp> jpa-: heh, I'm using the -A parts, they still say just 4usecs, even though original line is 10usecs
2019-08-28T14:59:02 < karlp> -a says just 4usecs for internal vref too, original is min5, typically 10.
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2019-08-28T16:04:24 < the_spacebyte> Hi all. On a stm32f767 I'm programming FLASH_OPTCR1_BOOT_ADD0 with the address for flash bank nº 2 (0x08100000) and writing new firmware there. After a power cycle (switch power off/on) the system still boots to other address 0x08000000. When writing the address to the register e read afterwords and verify that it has the correct value. It seems th
2019-08-28T16:04:24 < the_spacebyte> at this option byte is cleared on the power cycle. Is this normal?
2019-08-28T16:17:17 < the_spacebyte> I found the problem
2019-08-28T16:17:30 < karlp> are you going to share?
2019-08-28T16:17:48 < the_spacebyte> After writing the option bytes I was setting the FLASH_CR_STRT instead of FLASH_OPTCR_OPTSTRT
2019-08-28T16:17:51 < the_spacebyte> yes
2019-08-28T16:18:25 < the_spacebyte> so I assume in essence the values were not being actually written to flash
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2019-08-28T16:30:13 < kristoiv> We created a simple assembly program for an stm32f051, flashed it, it turned on some leds. Now flashing doesn't work anymore. The debugger just cannot contact it. st-util says "unknown chip id! 0"
2019-08-28T16:30:30 < kristoiv> Have anyone had this problem? All google searches just return people telling me to check my connections, but they are all fine
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2019-08-28T16:31:49 < kristoiv> Target voltage looks good
2019-08-28T16:32:50 < Thorn> kristoiv: do your led pins conflict with SWD?
2019-08-28T16:34:16 < kristoiv> Thron, nope, but it is on the same gpio block
2019-08-28T16:35:19 < kristoiv> Also its not like we haven't flashed these a million times. The problem came after we wrote custom assembly. Could this be related to not havinig valid abort handlers in our code?
2019-08-28T16:35:32 < Thorn> try using the official st-link utility and enable connect under reset in it (and connect the mcu reset pin to the st-link)
2019-08-28T16:35:53 < kristoiv> Or maybe I just randomly wore out the flash right now..
2019-08-28T16:36:02 < kristoiv> Thorn, do they have that for OSX?
2019-08-28T16:38:29 < karlp> jpa-: looks like it's related to ADC_CR1_PDI (power down in idle)  even if I read the temperature sensor last, after 23 other channels, (ie, after 90usecs) it's still garbage. 
2019-08-28T16:39:26 < karlp> datasheet says powerup time is only 3.5usecs.
2019-08-28T16:39:33  * karlp turns off power saving...
2019-08-28T16:40:06 < Thorn> kristoiv: I believe it's windows only. but e.g. openocd should support connect under reset too
2019-08-28T16:40:25 < kristoiv> Thorn, I have found a windows laptop around the office. Testing ...
2019-08-28T16:42:15 < karlp> official stlink is java these days, works on linux+windows at least, presumably osx too...
2019-08-28T16:42:29 < karlp> (you almost definitely didn't wear out the flash)
2019-08-28T16:42:52 < Thorn> I just downloaded it and it's an .exe
2019-08-28T16:45:07 < kristoiv> "Unable to install InstallShield Scripting Runtime." <-- Awh gawd! Windows... =/
2019-08-28T16:46:09 < karlp> is it just the stlink fw updater that's cross platform?
2019-08-28T16:46:45 < Thorn> that's possible
2019-08-28T16:47:01 < Thorn> I remember some java app just for firmware update
2019-08-28T16:47:14 < karlp> yeah, seems to be. lame.
2019-08-28T16:47:59 < Thorn> if a java app can update firmware, why can't it also flash and do other st-link stuff
2019-08-28T16:48:18 < karlp> https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/development-tools/software-development-tools/stm32-software-development-tools/stm32-performance-and-debuggers/st-link-server.html is multi platform, but not the same
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2019-08-28T16:52:05 < kristoiv> hmm, the third time I tried the installer it worked.... windows!?!
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2019-08-28T16:55:28 < kristoiv> IT WORKED :D
2019-08-28T16:55:31 < kristoiv> Thanks Thorn!
2019-08-28T16:56:20 < Thorn> you must have messed up gpio config in your assembly
2019-08-28T16:57:09 < Thorn> there're only a few ways to make swd unusable: remapping swd pins, entering a deep sleep mode, enabling code readout protection
2019-08-28T16:57:42 < Thorn> "normal" bugs that make the firmware crash do not prevent the debug hardware from working
2019-08-28T17:00:16 < kristoiv> It happened again when I flashed the same code again. It seems the flash failed.
2019-08-28T17:00:53 < kristoiv> openocd returned non-zero, but the code is running
2019-08-28T17:01:28 < karlp> well, did you change the coode? of course it was goign tohappen again....
2019-08-28T17:02:22 < kristoiv> karlp, haha I know, I'm just stating that the flashing kinda fails which I didn't expect. But maybe it tries to get the device back after resetting it.
2019-08-28T17:02:26 < kristoiv> Might not be relevant
2019-08-28T17:09:19 < jpa-> karlp: yeah, i was saving power, because most of the stuff i needed to sample needed long sampling times, it made more sense to run ADC a bit slower
2019-08-28T17:10:01 < jpa-> and i didn't use PDI, i just completely powered down HSI oscillator and ADC when not in use
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2019-08-28T17:44:33 < bitmask> someone design me an air core transformer
2019-08-28T17:46:15 < qyx> No.
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2019-08-28T17:48:35 < BrainDamage> if you wind it on a toroidal support and have high turn count, you should be ok-ish
2019-08-28T17:49:04 < bitmask> I wonder if I can do it on a pcb
2019-08-28T17:49:27 < BrainDamage> do you plan to spew noise everywhere?
2019-08-28T17:49:36 < bitmask> ive seen tesla coils use it
2019-08-28T17:49:58 < BrainDamage> tesla coils don't exactly concern themselves about EMI
2019-08-28T17:49:59 < bitmask> noise shmoise
2019-08-28T17:50:14 < bitmask> ok so pcb out
2019-08-28T17:50:34 < BrainDamage> what are you trying to do
2019-08-28T17:50:44 < bitmask> POV display
2019-08-28T17:51:20 < Ultrasauce> use slip rings
2019-08-28T17:51:25 < bitmask> no thanks
2019-08-28T17:52:27 < BrainDamage> do you need to carry power or just data?
2019-08-28T17:52:33 < bitmask> power
2019-08-28T17:53:04 < BrainDamage> you'll end up with big fat coils
2019-08-28T17:53:19 < BrainDamage> also, you can still add cores
2019-08-28T17:54:22 < bitmask> cores?
2019-08-28T17:54:38 < bitmask> what, for the transformer?
2019-08-28T17:54:41 < BrainDamage> yes
2019-08-28T17:55:04 < bitmask> oh ok
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2019-08-28T18:06:50 < the_spacebyte> just a follow-up question from the other one I made. Can I change the "Boot pin" via software?
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2019-08-28T18:07:28 < the_spacebyte> So instead of having to change BOOT_ADD0 I can just change Boot Pin to 1 and boot from BOOT_ADD1
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2019-08-28T18:27:43 < dongs> no
2019-08-28T18:32:09 < the_spacebyte> alright, thanks
2019-08-28T18:33:42 < Ultrasauce> you could probably do something silly with a capacitor and another gpio
2019-08-28T18:34:13 < the_spacebyte> naa, too much for what I need :p  
2019-08-28T18:34:30 < Thorn> the_spacebyte: feel free to use your EE skillz design a bistable circuit controlled by a gpio pin lol
2019-08-28T18:34:38 < Thorn> +to
2019-08-28T18:35:04 < the_spacebyte> I'm a compsci guy so my EE skillz are looooow
2019-08-28T18:35:15 < Thorn> if you need it to survive power down use a bistable relay (lol again)
2019-08-28T18:36:17 < salcedo> Thorn is alive! Oh Thank You Bezos!
2019-08-28T18:37:26 < Thorn> what does bezos have to do with anything
2019-08-28T18:43:01 < salcedo> bezos is my Lord. I praise him. they said you had died a few days back. but you are here!
2019-08-28T18:43:34 < dongs> the_spacebyte: why do you even need to care about boot1 anyway.
2019-08-28T18:43:43 < dongs> i cant imagine any legitimate scenario where you need it
2019-08-28T18:44:59 < the_spacebyte> dongs I'm implementing and reading about IAP and exploring ways of writing the new firmware and booting from it.
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2019-08-28T18:56:46 < dongs> the_spacebyte: why would you ever involve boot1 in that bro
2019-08-28T18:56:54 < dongs> here's an idea
2019-08-28T18:57:01 < dongs> you have a bootloader that handles updating userspace
2019-08-28T18:57:18 < dongs> bootloader talks to whatever firmware update software/wahtever over usb/serial/whatever and writres to main flash
2019-08-28T18:57:30 < dongs> then you verify the update succeeded, and reset to reboot.
2019-08-28T18:57:40 < the_spacebyte> dongs Because I 'm new to and was trying to understand what it is how it works, just that. I have the IAP working with BOOT_ADD0. Just exploring other ideas
2019-08-28T18:57:40 < dongs> bootloader boots, checks your firmware is ok (or doesnt care and just jump to it)
2019-08-28T18:58:19 < dongs> you cna also update bootloader same way, by flashing userspace that, when booted, erases and updates the bootloader section, then erases itself
2019-08-28T18:58:52 < dongs> then resets, and its ready to take userspace update (tho i'm sure there's clever ways to update bootloader without erasing userspace, but i'm way too lazy and havent bothered implementing such
2019-08-28T18:59:09 < the_spacebyte> I did that on other projects, but on this one we're using chibios and a lot of code was already written for me to introduce a bootloader
2019-08-28T19:00:10 < the_spacebyte> and we have dual bank, so I think the bootloader would be overkill no? Just write the firmware from on bank to the other
2019-08-28T19:00:56 < the_spacebyte> one bank to the other*
2019-08-28T19:01:21 < dongs> good luck. i was just here to inform a possible solution to the problem.
2019-08-28T19:02:01 < the_spacebyte> yeah no problem, thank you.
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2019-08-28T19:03:56 < dongs> i don't see how having dual bank doesnt requier a bootloader but yeah
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2019-08-28T19:06:34 < the_spacebyte> dongs while you're receiving the new firmware you write it to other flash bank. As soon as you're finished and verified everything (checksums and whatnot) write the address for the flash bank on BOOT_ADDR0
2019-08-28T19:06:40 < the_spacebyte> next time the mcu will boot from there
2019-08-28T19:06:49 < dongs> nah, thats dumb.
2019-08-28T19:06:51 < the_spacebyte> this on your "userspace" application
2019-08-28T19:06:57 < dongs> once you received and verified it, you copy it back to bank0 userspace
2019-08-28T19:07:04 < the_spacebyte> why?
2019-08-28T19:07:04 < dongs> only use bank1 for recovery or something
2019-08-28T19:07:06 < dongs> why not
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2019-08-28T19:10:07 < jpa-> dongs: i usually do it so that when firmware boots and gets to a point where i'm sure it could receive a new firmware, then i check "did i boot from the default bank" and if not, change the default bank to match
2019-08-28T19:10:43 < dongs> ya idk how dual bank shit works, i could never afford any stm with banked flash
2019-08-28T19:10:51 < dongs> i just pleb through with a bootloader and userspace
2019-08-28T19:10:53 < jpa-> e.g. bank0 updates bank1, then boots (by jump or other temporary means) to bank1, then bank1 itself changes default to bank1 if it boots successfully, otherwise it automatically falls back to bank0
2019-08-28T19:11:05 < the_spacebyte> when you have a hammer
2019-08-28T19:11:06 < the_spacebyte> ...
2019-08-28T19:11:31 < dongs> is this bank change premanent or something or until reset?
2019-08-28T19:11:49 < the_spacebyte> you can reset it
2019-08-28T19:11:50 < dongs> i usually just pass shit between bootloader and userspace in those VBAT-powered bkup registers
2019-08-28T19:12:00 < jpa-> the default bank setting is in flash, so permanent; but you can just jump to bank1 to do it temporarily
2019-08-28T19:12:07 < dongs> ah ok
2019-08-28T19:12:18 < dongs> yea like i said never fucked wsith banked stuff
2019-08-28T19:12:30 < jpa-> yeah, it is quite nice for stuff like that
2019-08-28T19:13:27 < jpa-> though you can imitate it by having the bootloader boot to different areas using some config value
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2019-08-28T19:15:52 < the_spacebyte> but for the bootloader you need to segment your flash so that the bootloader goes right before your "userspace" and it's one more application. When you have dual banking is just a matter of setting a couple of registers
2019-08-28T19:19:24 < jpa-> yep
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2019-08-28T19:23:44 < karlp> bleh, now even with power save disabled temps are wrong again, back to "384 cycles or bust" again
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2019-08-28T20:01:25 < Cracki> how to properly boot into other bank first time/temporarily? just jumping to it won't *reset* any peripherals
2019-08-28T20:01:41 < Cracki> (I haven't touched dual banked chips yet either)
2019-08-28T20:01:45 < Cracki> just curious
2019-08-28T20:03:26 < the_spacebyte> the way I'm doing I don't jump to the other bank while my app is running. After the update I can manually (or by controlling the power channel) power cycle the device
2019-08-28T20:04:14 < the_spacebyte> when I did it with the bootloader I'd jump to "userspace" but I think I had to reset all peripherals
2019-08-28T20:04:42 < the_spacebyte> Never tried jumping temporarily
2019-08-28T20:04:44 < Cracki> you said there's an option byte or something that controls which bank to boot from... but you also said to only try that once temporarily, and when it successfully runs *then* set that flag permanently
2019-08-28T20:04:48 < karlp> scb_reset probably the bst way...
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2019-08-28T20:06:07 < Cracki> so I take it there's a way to reset and tell the next boot (using vbat-powered bkup registers?) to use the other bank, without that being permanent yet
2019-08-28T20:06:11 < the_spacebyte> cracki I didn't say that. I said that I send the firmware along with the checksum. As soon I finish writing on the other bank I compare checksums. If they match _then_ I change to boot address and the operator can power cycle
2019-08-28T20:06:32 < Cracki> ah
2019-08-28T20:06:36 < the_spacebyte> change the boot address*
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2019-08-28T20:19:58 < machinehum> hello weiners
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2019-08-28T20:30:53 < Cracki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HXBmgMHcBA
2019-08-28T20:32:20 < Cracki> remember weiner's wiener https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/160921-weiner-sex-scandal-part-3-feature.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=618&h=410&crop=1
2019-08-28T20:33:44 < Cracki> he's walking around like that now https://media.breitbart.com/media/2016/09/Anthony-Weiner-640x480.jpg
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2019-08-28T21:09:20 <@aandrew> hm, interesting
2019-08-28T21:09:39 <@aandrew> FreeRTOS wants SysTick to be lowest priority, while the PTP stack wants the SysTick priority higher than the ethernet priority
2019-08-28T21:11:02 < Cracki> what parts of ethernet could conceivably mess with systick enough to make it lose interrupts?
2019-08-28T21:11:15 < Cracki> or does ptp want microsecond systicks or something
2019-08-28T21:11:44 < mawk> because freertos is using systick internally aandrew 
2019-08-28T21:11:51 < mawk> you can make PTP stack use something else than systick maybe ?
2019-08-28T21:11:52 < mawk> another timer
2019-08-28T21:15:23 < Cracki> are we using "high' and "low" in the same sense, namely by urgency, not by arbitrary meaning of numerical sense?
2019-08-28T21:17:09 < mawk> yes
2019-08-28T21:17:10 < mawk> I hope
2019-08-28T21:17:18 < mawk> in the freertos case yes at least
2019-08-28T21:17:25 < mawk> they want the lowest priority aka the highest numerical priority
2019-08-28T21:18:42 < Cracki> freertos says "we don't care, we'll just put it at the lowest". sounds like that's perfectly compatible with ptp saying "we care about ethernet even less"
2019-08-28T21:19:05 < mawk> systick must be lower than any freertos task tho
2019-08-28T21:19:06 < mawk> I think
2019-08-28T21:19:18 < Cracki> tasks aren't interrupts
2019-08-28T21:19:30 < mawk> but you can replace freertos' systick with another timer by calling xPortSysTickHandler() manually
2019-08-28T21:19:45 < Cracki> it's preemptive, systick is supposed to interrupt tasks. they run in thread mode or what was it called
2019-08-28T21:20:05 < Cracki> sure but I don't think assignment if timers is even his problem.
2019-08-28T21:20:25 < Cracki> just that two things care very little about systick, and the question is which is allowed to care less
2019-08-28T21:20:34 <@aandrew> Cracki: no, that's the stupid part. systick is 10ms on the platform (not 1msec) and that time is not used for anything critical anyway
2019-08-28T21:20:42 < Cracki> right
2019-08-28T21:20:48 <@aandrew> mawk: oh I know FreeRTOS uses SysTick for its own thing
2019-08-28T21:21:02 < Cracki> oh, that freertos uses an actual timer for context switching?
2019-08-28T21:21:05 <@aandrew> mawk: and my code doesn't care for systick accuracy, it does everything critical through timer compares anyway
2019-08-28T21:21:23 < qyx> no, it uses whatever you feed it
2019-08-28T21:21:28 < Cracki> i know freertos can be configured for using systick or timer
2019-08-28T21:21:32 < qyx> it is configurable in freertosconfig-h
2019-08-28T21:21:46 < Cracki> so... what's the problem again?
2019-08-28T21:21:59 < qyx> I think nothing
2019-08-28T21:22:07 < Cracki> same
2019-08-28T21:24:26 < qyx> karlp: hows your pci-e x1 connector thing?
2019-08-28T21:24:38 < Cracki> maybe freertos should just shut up and allow systick to be second-lowest prio ahead of ethernet
2019-08-28T21:24:57 <@aandrew> no problem 
2019-08-28T21:24:58 <@aandrew> just comparing
2019-08-28T21:25:18 <@aandrew> I think the issue is that I don't have timer2 set up correctly. it's doing coarse corrections just fine but never falls inot sync
2019-08-28T21:25:44 < qyx> it can afaik, the problem is only if you want to call freertos ISR API from a lower interrupt
2019-08-28T21:25:47 < qyx> Cracki: ^
2019-08-28T21:26:07 < Cracki> yeah they have ...ISR functions for that
2019-08-28T21:26:36 <@aandrew> *nods*
2019-08-28T21:26:56 < Cracki> wait, I think I'm missing a level of indirection
2019-08-28T21:27:09 <@aandrew> I have to do a full review of my LwIP implementation as well, as I think I am calling a couple APIs that can only be called from the main LwIP thread (i.e I should be using netifapi_foo() instead of net_foo())
2019-08-28T21:28:04 < qyx> Cracki: you cannot use ISR functions from all interrupts
2019-08-28T21:28:09 < Cracki> if there's a problem caused by nested interrupts, that should be considered a bug in freertos
2019-08-28T21:28:13 < qyx> read commentds in FreeRTOSConfig-h
2019-08-28T21:28:32 < qyx> there is a priority limit and it is configurable
2019-08-28T21:28:33 < Cracki> will do that when I get to it
2019-08-28T21:29:05 < Cracki> so... this could mean no freertos calls inside the ethernet interrupt
2019-08-28T21:29:28 < Cracki> or fuck that ptp impl and just put ethernet above systick
2019-08-28T21:30:03 < qyx> I would say a freertos-integrated lwip handles it
2019-08-28T21:31:13 < Cracki> I think the issue is that PTP does its own thing
2019-08-28T21:31:39 < Cracki> or specifically the ptp impl that's used there
2019-08-28T21:33:56 < Cracki> of course there's an appnote for that :S 3411
2019-08-28T21:36:56 <@aandrew> yeah, AN3411 isn't all that great
2019-08-28T21:37:00 <@aandrew> been all up and downt hat
2019-08-28T21:37:22 <@aandrew> it's reasonably well abstracted
2019-08-28T21:37:39 <@aandrew> just a lot of moving bits to try to keep in my mind and every time I get into the zone someone interrupts me
2019-08-28T21:42:42 < Cracki> inb4 buying a mountaintop for the job
2019-08-28T21:49:25 < Thorn> is ips display a tft display? or are those things distinct?
2019-08-28T21:51:06 < Cracki> I'm sure ips contain thin film transistors
2019-08-28T21:51:47 < Cracki> and they're even based on liquid crystal
2019-08-28T21:53:50 < rajkosto> ips is a type of LCD matrix used in TFT displays
2019-08-28T21:54:02 < Thorn> I keep seeing "tft vs. ips", even by supposed pros sometimes
2019-08-28T21:54:10 < rajkosto> because the idiots have confused TFT with TN.
2019-08-28T21:54:17 < rajkosto> mostly chinese aliexpress sellers
2019-08-28T21:54:23 < Cracki> which supposed pros are those supposedly
2019-08-28T21:54:25 < rajkosto> because they dont want the bad association with TN
2019-08-28T21:54:36 < rajkosto> (aka its completely useless for small displays due to viewing angles)
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2019-08-28T22:56:51 < kakimir> planning to extend maximum number of hdds in that NAS
2019-08-28T22:57:04 < kakimir> to fit all the 250GB trash disks
2019-08-28T22:57:43 < kakimir> I realized when I have 2 x 250GB and 4 x 1TB I have used half of cage space
2019-08-28T22:58:22 < kakimir> all non installed disks are 1TB
2019-08-28T22:58:34 < kakimir> maybe 2-3 of them
2019-08-28T22:59:05 < kakimir> I figured that if I buy disks those should be at least 4TB
2019-08-28T22:59:21 < Steffanx> 10
2019-08-28T22:59:31 < kakimir> never get the biggest
2019-08-28T22:59:40 < kakimir> reliability and price
2019-08-28T22:59:44 < Steffanx> There is 12 too iirc
2019-08-28T23:00:19 < kakimir> https://www.amazon.de/WD-Book-Desktop-AES-Hardwareverschl%C3%BCsselung-WDBBGB0100HBK-EESN/dp/B01LWVT81X/?th=1 cheapest way to buy 8TB?
2019-08-28T23:00:36 < Steffanx> Yeah, but there is something with those disks
2019-08-28T23:00:49 < kakimir> something wong?
2019-08-28T23:01:09 < Steffanx> Yeah why else would they be so much cheaper
2019-08-28T23:01:19 < kakimir> you buy WD external drive for cheap and open them and find seagate inside
2019-08-28T23:01:30 < qyx> do you generate so many design files you fit all the terabytes?
2019-08-28T23:01:42 < kakimir> I want to full image multiple machines
2019-08-28T23:02:01 < kakimir> those add up
2019-08-28T23:02:06 < qyx> we say I want the blue from the sky
2019-08-28T23:02:19 < kakimir> me too
2019-08-28T23:02:41 < qyx> idk if there is a worldwide equivalent
2019-08-28T23:02:49 < Steffanx> Dont you store your anime and porn qyx?
2019-08-28T23:02:56 < qyx> no.
2019-08-28T23:03:01 < Steffanx> Lies.
2019-08-28T23:03:11 < kakimir> I do rather lot of hdd imaging
2019-08-28T23:03:39 < kakimir> then I need 1TB just for temp files
2019-08-28T23:03:43 < kakimir> the play area
2019-08-28T23:04:23 < kakimir> throw that disk image in there
2019-08-28T23:05:07 < kakimir> also drone and gopro generate rather much bits
2019-08-28T23:06:12 < kakimir> that gopro hero black is incredible thing.. stuff that comes out of it is "no post process required" level
2019-08-28T23:06:28 < Steffanx> Dont forget zfs stuff is hard to extend
2019-08-28T23:06:40 < kakimir> I can create multiple drives?
2019-08-28T23:06:42 < Steffanx> You cannot easily add disks et all
2019-08-28T23:07:05 < kakimir> I can always make second "thing" when I add stuff
2019-08-28T23:07:09 < kakimir> ?
2019-08-28T23:07:19 < Steffanx> I mean once you picked a raid config
2019-08-28T23:07:43 < kakimir> no way I'm going to make that shitshow a one "drive"
2019-08-28T23:08:27 < Ultrasauce> here's today's musicspam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LzIYlNCuPg
2019-08-28T23:08:28 < Steffanx> You can make a new config/pool (whatever its called) from just the new disks, yes. 
2019-08-28T23:13:34 < Steffanx> Not sure what you meant mr kakimir  
2019-08-28T23:16:39 < kakimir> yes
2019-08-28T23:16:41 < kakimir> pools
2019-08-28T23:16:52 < kakimir> I have to figure those out
2019-08-28T23:16:54 < Steffanx> This is what I meant: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/solaris/ZFSRaidzDiskAddition
2019-08-28T23:17:08 < catphish> my laptop doesn't have a root usb port, this is really very annoying for debugging :(
2019-08-28T23:17:09 < karlp> qyx: funny you should ask, was actually just opening that project up again, it got pushed around it by some other things.
2019-08-28T23:17:46 < qyx> karlp: yeah, I am doing a similar backplane design for 2U subrack, I was just curious
2019-08-28T23:18:02 < qyx> if you have your pinout done
2019-08-28T23:19:11 < kakimir> catphish: add extension card
2019-08-28T23:19:22 < catphish> card?
2019-08-28T23:19:27 < catphish> what is card?
2019-08-28T23:19:35 < kakimir> things you push to slot in your craptop
2019-08-28T23:19:44 < catphish> my laptop no have slot :(
2019-08-28T23:19:48 < karlp> I started a pinout, have an excel sheet, then wsa like, "do I really need doubles for all this?"
2019-08-28T23:19:50 < kakimir> mine neather
2019-08-28T23:19:56 < kakimir> just usb3.0s
2019-08-28T23:20:06 < catphish> maybe i could attach a pcie USB to a thunderbolt port
2019-08-28T23:20:11 < karlp> I looked at copying theh man-goh or whatever it is boards, not because they're a big ecosystem, but because it's _a_ pinout
2019-08-28T23:20:21 < kakimir> good idea catphish
2019-08-28T23:20:23 < kakimir> do it
2019-08-28T23:20:29 < catphish> i don't know much about these modern ports
2019-08-28T23:20:54 < catphish> i have some kind if magic port that is usb but it can also carry insanely high bandwidth stuff like GPUs
2019-08-28T23:21:09 < catphish> i think this is thunderbolt and it can carry PCIe, idk
2019-08-28T23:21:11 < qyx> karlp: I settled on this one https://i.imgur.com/lGpVoWX.png
2019-08-28T23:21:23 < qyx> then I realized it copies nearly all PCI-express signals
2019-08-28T23:21:39 < catphish> right now my usb driver no like my usb device :(
2019-08-28T23:21:41 < catphish> [  +0.107184] usb 1-2.1: unable to read config index 0 descriptor/start: -75
2019-08-28T23:21:46 < catphish> [  +0.000008] usb 1-2.1: can't read configurations, error -75
2019-08-28T23:21:55 < qyx> I mean, not entirely, but it would not be totally dumb to just copy PCI-e
2019-08-28T23:22:08 < karlp> qyx: is where'm at: https://privatebin.net/?93c5aae278e3d7b6#3jW4XQGJEQ6ZvJdQwTZctXxxs25ae3bAS875Ze7xxZ2q
2019-08-28T23:22:11 < qyx> except the actual PCI-e lanes
2019-08-28T23:22:22 < karlp> pci-ex has things for peg detection and shti, and particularly for x1, not enough of what I want on it.
2019-08-28T23:22:28 < karlp> I was trying to see what I could use as is.
2019-08-28T23:22:52 < karlp> I currently feel I have too many grounds, and too manmy 5v.
2019-08-28T23:23:10 < qyx> I feel I don't have anough
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2019-08-28T23:23:27 < karlp> well, I thought this was ok, but then I looked at some other socket layouts and they had less, so I was like...... *shrugs*
2019-08-28T23:23:48 < qyx> I wanted to have cards for power management and then for generic computing/daq
2019-08-28T23:23:51 < qyx> in the said system
2019-08-28T23:23:52 < qyx> but
2019-08-28T23:24:10 < qyx> 5V at 4amps is not enough for any proper power management
2019-08-28T23:24:11 < karlp> yeah, this is really just a single master, single board type solution for me.
2019-08-28T23:24:28 < karlp> so I don't need any backplane sort of thing, it's just a cpu card and a sensor baseboard.
2019-08-28T23:24:31 < qyx> like solar charging and stuff
2019-08-28T23:24:38 < qyx> yeah, I understand
2019-08-28T23:24:50 < qyx> I am not using a stack arrangement
2019-08-28T23:25:01 < qyx> but it is meh to replace a board in the middle
2019-08-28T23:25:02 < karlp> but I'd still love some sort of standrd to go with :)
2019-08-28T23:25:14 < qyx> *I am now
2019-08-28T23:25:59 < qyx> yeah, the actual question was if you were questioning the possiblity to use something standardized
2019-08-28T23:26:04 < qyx> or did your own, because yolo
2019-08-28T23:26:11 < qyx> now I see
2019-08-28T23:27:05 < karlp> so yeah, x1, for actual pci has 22 pins, 5 for 12V, 4 for 3.3v, 2 for slot size detection, 5 for jtag, and one for suspend/resume7wakeup.
2019-08-28T23:27:19 < karlp> it's got virtually nothign I could even pretend to reuse.
2019-08-28T23:27:51 < karlp> sorry, 36pins, with 9 grounds there too.
2019-08-28T23:28:28 < qyx> I can reuse almost everything, 12V->24V for hi power bus, 3V3->5V for card power, jtag, wakeup, smbus
2019-08-28T23:28:46 < karlp> lucky you :)
2019-08-28T23:29:10 < qyx> and replace PCI-e with canbus + usb
2019-08-28T23:29:46 < karlp> there's ~8 free signals out of 36 really.
2019-08-28T23:30:10 < karlp> and I want spi, usart/w modem signals, ethernet and usb.
2019-08-28T23:30:10 < qyx> also I wanted to allow expansion using x4 slot
2019-08-28T23:30:25 < qyx> with ethernet, multidrop-style octo-SPI
2019-08-28T23:30:48 < qyx> but tehernet is meh on a fully passive backplane
2019-08-28T23:30:59 < karlp> how so?
2019-08-28T23:31:00 < qyx> I do not want switches and stuff
2019-08-28T23:31:32 < karlp> well, I'm ethernet only as far as needing the terminals for the magjack :)
2019-08-28T23:32:15 < qyx> if I wanted 3 cards to communicate over ethernet, I would need some sort of switch on the backplane
2019-08-28T23:32:31 < qyx> or force the MAC to operate in a bus topology
2019-08-28T23:32:36 < qyx> ~somehow
2019-08-28T23:32:58 < qyx> different usecase than yours
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2019-08-28T23:35:17 < karlp> 10base2 with bus shit coax stylee? :)
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2019-08-28T23:35:37 < karlp> just use this new 2pair ethernet stuff, and have a pair for all three cards :)
2019-08-28T23:36:40 < qyx> 100base-t1? yeah i was considering using TJA1100 or similar
2019-08-28T23:37:04 < qyx> but still, where the switch resides
2019-08-28T23:37:51 < qyx> maybe there could be one on every single card
2019-08-28T23:38:13 < qyx> with the requirement that all ethernet-enabled cards have to be located one besides another
2019-08-28T23:38:28 < karlp> no, 10base2.
2019-08-28T23:38:40 < qyx> 22:35 < karlp> just use this new 2pair ethernet stuff, and have a pair for all three cards :)
2019-08-28T23:38:45 < qyx> oh I wsas reading single pair
2019-08-28T23:38:52 < karlp> yeah, thah was another option
2019-08-28T23:39:02 < karlp> but you could do 10base2 and justwire it all together. no switches.
2019-08-28T23:39:23 < qyx> I could put 10mbit into can-fd if I wanted
2019-08-28T23:39:37 < karlp> problem solved :)
2019-08-28T23:40:12 < qyx> maybe I should just mark the pins as reserved-for-future-use
2019-08-28T23:41:32 < karlp> hrm, mbed has brought usbdevice back up again quietley.
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2019-08-28T23:49:45 < karlp> can't find it _any_ of their release notes, they just quietly did a pile of work on it and brought it back from the mbed os 2.0 contrib 
2019-08-28T23:50:05 < karlp> I like how they're truly, developing in the open, by doing it on github.
2019-08-28T23:50:28 < karlp> "this PR implements work as described in jira.arm.com/blah" (internal url, unreadable by mortals)
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2019-08-28T23:59:41 <@aandrew>  wtf
2019-08-28T23:59:57 <@aandrew> I've got a set of four tx descriptors, and then another four that are set up identically for PTP "helpers"
--- Day changed Thu Aug 29 2019
2019-08-29T00:00:57 <@aandrew> txdesc[i]->Buffer1Addr = &buffer[i*packetlen]
2019-08-29T00:01:30 <@aandrew> txdesc[i]->Buffer2NextDescAddr = &txdesc[i+1]
2019-08-29T00:01:36 <@aandrew> makes sense, it's creating a chain
2019-08-29T00:01:47 <@aandrew> but then it does this
2019-08-29T00:02:08 <@aandrew> ptp_txdesc[i]->Buffer1Addr = txdesc[i]->Buffer1Addr
2019-08-29T00:02:34 <@aandrew> ptp_txdesc[i]->Buffer2NextDescAddr = txdesc[i]->Buffer2NextDescAddr
2019-08-29T00:02:57 <@aandrew> does this not make ptp_txdesc[i] the same as txdesc[i]  (with its own CSR bits of course)
2019-08-29T00:08:09 < karlp> anyone got any experience with cheap ir spot thermometers? are they garbage or pretty ok?
2019-08-29T00:09:42 < Ultrasauce> they are not awful
2019-08-29T00:09:52 < kakimir> it's an artform to use them
2019-08-29T00:10:07 < kakimir> and get good readings from where you think you are measuring from
2019-08-29T00:10:21 < Ultrasauce> the emissivity vs reflectivity of the surface is the main source of inaccuracy
2019-08-29T00:12:59 < Ultrasauce> and the spot is quite wide, to the tune of 30 degrees
2019-08-29T00:13:03 < karlp> thermal imaging all seems wayyyyy more expensive
2019-08-29T00:13:08 < karlp> so they're pretty shit for pcbs then?
2019-08-29T00:13:22 < Ultrasauce> its fine if you want to measure a specific ic for instance
2019-08-29T00:13:29 < karlp> yeah, that's all.
2019-08-29T00:13:46 < Ultrasauce> as long as you can get right up in there
2019-08-29T00:13:47 < karlp> this distance to spot shit is like, ok, ic is 1cm, measure from 12cm away then?
2019-08-29T00:13:58 < Ultrasauce> more like 4
2019-08-29T00:14:15 < karlp> hrm, reading reviews where they talk about 12:1 being "good" and further than normal.
2019-08-29T00:14:27 < karlp> but that'ðs likely to be very inflated you reckon?
2019-08-29T00:16:38 < Ultrasauce> yeah
2019-08-29T00:17:06 < Ultrasauce> but well the one i use was 20 bucks, ymmv
2019-08-29T00:17:35 < karlp> my budget is like $20 tops, 
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2019-08-29T01:45:31 < karlp> bah, went through selecting a china shipper, (chose yoybuy) then found that ali doesn't ship to china. have to find shit again on taoabo to even try this out
2019-08-29T01:46:05 < mawk> lol
2019-08-29T01:46:42 < karlp> so now I'm turning my aliexpress account into an alipay account, because taobao needs ap hone number to signup, and despite allowing the maldives, and all sorts of other phone numbers, iceland isn't one of them.
2019-08-29T01:46:44 < karlp> boo
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2019-08-29T01:47:49 < karlp> fucking should move to burkina faso, would get better service
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2019-08-29T01:52:05 < BrainDamage> move to italy and get shipping denied a-priori
2019-08-29T01:56:05 < karlp> hah
2019-08-29T01:56:15 < karlp> so no, alipay doesn'tð bypass taobao signup
2019-08-29T01:56:19 < karlp> well this was a waste of an evening.
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2019-08-29T04:13:26 < jadew> karlp, let me know how this story develops, I wasn't able to find a fast solution to the shipping problem either
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2019-08-29T04:38:02 < jadew> (music) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5chkHjTNFgk
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2019-08-29T04:39:02 <@aandrew> well, having the right addend value for 216MHz HCLK certainly helped
2019-08-29T04:39:22 <@aandrew> my offset is now (after the first set) not maxed out
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2019-08-29T04:39:37 <@aandrew> but it quickly ramps up there and stays until I accumulate 100ms of error, then a hard correction and it starts over
2019-08-29T04:39:53 <@aandrew> it's like the servo routine is not adjusting in the right direction
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2019-08-29T04:51:54 < Cracki> I saw something similar on an NTP client running on windows too
2019-08-29T04:52:44 < Cracki> it appears that it had the wrong ppm value, raced ahead of the clock like crazy, and then some hard correction kept kicking in yet that wrong ppm value never approached what it should have been
2019-08-29T04:53:02 < Cracki> probably because the clock was really fucked and not just off by a few tens/hundreds of ppm
2019-08-29T04:53:37 < Cracki> I think something in your stack assumed wrong clock rates somewhere
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2019-08-29T05:19:48 < bitmask> apa102's allow 30MHz clock rate, interesting
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2019-08-29T05:39:34 < dongs> FUCK ALTINIGGER FUCKING ATTACHING ITSELF TO .C FILES
2019-08-29T05:39:45 < dongs> FUCKING WHY
2019-08-29T05:41:00 < Cracki> because decade-old ambitions to target fpgas with C
2019-08-29T05:41:08 < Cracki> send them a brick
2019-08-29T05:42:50 < Cracki> look at this bundle of sticks dancing up to the poor shop front: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL8imWMcyis
2019-08-29T05:43:47 < Cracki> that's not "road" rage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tKOGwqVUPo
2019-08-29T05:44:17 < Cracki> best argument for private gun ownership
2019-08-29T05:45:16 < Cracki> hahaha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6TSNn6-VZw
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2019-08-29T06:52:42 < jadew> lol Cracki 
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2019-08-29T07:23:26 < jadew> salcedo, how is your reflow oven coming along?
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2019-08-29T07:26:48 < rajkosto> dongs, whats worse, once you click it accidentally, it creates a debug.log in the folder for... reasons
2019-08-29T07:28:39 < jadew> you guys bitch a lot about altium
2019-08-29T07:28:52 < jadew> are you sure it's better than kicad?
2019-08-29T07:29:10 < rajkosto> yes.
2019-08-29T07:29:19 < dongs> lmao
2019-08-29T07:29:27 < dongs> thats not even up for discussion
2019-08-29T07:29:38 < dongs> you cant compare altium with kikecad because the former actually works
2019-08-29T07:29:57 < jadew> just saying... kicad doesn't associate itself with c files
2019-08-29T07:30:10 < dongs> thats cuz lunix has no file associations
2019-08-29T07:30:25 < dongs> and if it does, each of the 12423984237492837 desktop environments does it differently
2019-08-29T07:30:34 < dongs> so its not gonna work on YOUR "desktop" anyway
2019-08-29T07:31:20 < jadew> what's the cheapest I can get altium these days?
2019-08-29T07:31:31 < dongs> they're having sales on it every month
2019-08-29T07:31:33 < jadew> is there anything like a monthly subscription thing?
2019-08-29T07:31:39 < dongs> about 3.5k for a year now
2019-08-29T07:31:43 < rajkosto> sailing the seas discount
2019-08-29T07:31:45 < dongs> at least in japan
2019-08-29T07:32:10 < jadew> don't think it's worth it for me
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2019-08-29T07:32:25 < jadew> I figured I could get various jobs (and most of them require Altium)
2019-08-29T07:32:36 < jadew> but I don't think I'd be able to cover the 3.5k
2019-08-29T07:47:52 < dongs> my first project I made in altium paid for its license for like 10 years
2019-08-29T07:48:00 < dongs> i tried to make same shit in eagle
2019-08-29T07:48:02 < dongs> and lmao
2019-08-29T07:48:05 < dongs> wasted liek a week jerking off
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2019-08-29T12:42:30 < Laurenceb_> lolwut
2019-08-29T12:42:39 < Laurenceb_> 4chan blocked in uk, "tasteless"
2019-08-29T12:42:45 < Laurenceb_> thats a new catagory
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2019-08-29T12:44:22 < karlp> petition emperor boris
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2019-08-29T12:48:49 < dongs> definitely tasteless
2019-08-29T12:54:58 < karlp> jadew: well, you can actually make a taobao account, romania is a choice for the phone number, so just do it.  yoybuy or tiptrans were the two agents I was goign to try out
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2019-08-29T13:44:23 < the_spacebyte> There's nothing like "STM32 ST-LINK Utility" but for linux?
2019-08-29T13:45:20 < Steffanx> Hello Haohmaru  
2019-08-29T13:45:58 < englishman> there is no high quality software for linux
2019-08-29T13:46:47 < the_spacebyte> englishman well that's a shame. Thanks
2019-08-29T13:47:19 < Steffanx> Isnt this new cube programmer java?
2019-08-29T13:47:30 < Steffanx> Even support for lunix
2019-08-29T13:47:38 < Steffanx> Iirc
2019-08-29T13:47:57 < karlp> well, I couldn't find it standalone yesterday, but maybe I was looking for stlink, not cube programmer
2019-08-29T13:48:17 < Steffanx> Dont you use opened anyway?
2019-08-29T13:54:42  * karlp does, but I was trying to help someone else
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2019-08-29T14:15:25 < qyx> not enuff patience
2019-08-29T14:15:46 < qyx> he left even before dongs arrived
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2019-08-29T14:23:06 < day> Haohmaru: i love how each major blender update trashes the UI rendering years of video tutorial material useless
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2019-08-29T15:14:28 < karlp> hrm, board draws 10.1mA.  subtract Iq from other parts on board, get a draw for the stm32.  add up periph consumption from the datasheet, get a higher number.
2019-08-29T15:14:50 < karlp> another board is ~close to the same, and measured is higher, so, ok, didn't count everything.
2019-08-29T15:14:58 < karlp> but this one is well under expectations.
2019-08-29T15:15:14 < karlp> should make more of them I guess....
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2019-08-29T16:17:23 < karlp> "HostFlexing allows all USB Type-C ports to function as the “notebook” port, eliminating the need for cryptic labels that try and explain overall functionality of each USB Type-C port."
2019-08-29T16:17:43 < karlp> so... what does "notebook" port mean? if we're talking abotu cryptic labels that explain things?
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2019-08-29T16:30:41 < Ultrasauce> weird flex but ok
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2019-08-29T16:35:57 < karlp> lol
2019-08-29T16:36:42 < karlp> this sis from some microchip pr
2019-08-29T16:38:25 < karlp> https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/08/29/1908382/0/en/Simplify-Power-Delivery-PD-in-Growing-USB-Type-C-Charging-Market-with-Two-USB-PD-Solutions-from-Microchip.html
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2019-08-29T16:39:48 < BrainDamage> (confusing for the marketing team)
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2019-08-29T17:03:17 < dongs> > pricing
2019-08-29T17:03:19 < dongs> > $5+
2019-08-29T17:03:21 < dongs> fuck off?
2019-08-29T17:04:10 -!- day [~Unknown@unaffiliated/day] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2019-08-29T17:07:38 < Steffanx> Nah
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2019-08-29T17:27:36 < Thorn> soyuz LV unboxing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQv8EiyOcVw
2019-08-29T17:30:18 < the_spacebyte> neat
2019-08-29T17:42:49 -!- kakimir [575d220c@87-93-34-12.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-29T17:43:57 < kakimir> stripes and mirrors
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2019-08-29T17:52:45 < dongs> https://hub.packtpub.com/rust-is-the-future-of-systems-programming-c-is-the-new-assembly-intel-principal-engineer-josh-triplett/ haha
2019-08-29T17:53:26 < kakimir> my nas spins up drives forever
2019-08-29T17:53:46 < kakimir> I wonder if it's freeNSA or raid card doing that
2019-08-29T17:54:24 < kakimir> raid bios had options for that and I think it was set to spin up 2 drives at once
2019-08-29T17:56:22 < kakimir> oh there is compression and stuff
2019-08-29T17:56:27 < salcedo> Rust is the future of systems programming? in what dimension?
2019-08-29T17:56:53 < salcedo> here in the alex jones dimension, super male vitality is the language of choice.
2019-08-29T18:08:13 < Ultrasauce> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6m7O_YQ3bE musicspam
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2019-08-29T18:25:25 < jadew> mildly interesting: https://cojotech.com/media/images/all-assemblies.png
2019-08-29T18:25:51 < jadew> all assemblies are also composed of a 20 cm cable
2019-08-29T18:26:43 < jadew> what I'm doing now is trying to find a decent replacement for the low loss TNC, which costs more than $30
2019-08-29T18:29:46 < kakimir> Ultrasauce: I could listen this maybe
2019-08-29T18:29:58 < Ultrasauce> its pretty chill
2019-08-29T18:31:38 < kakimir> indeed
2019-08-29T18:33:06 < karlp> bill fuckin laswell.
2019-08-29T18:33:13 < karlp> I was like, "oh nice, new music only 4k views....."
2019-08-29T18:33:19 < karlp> nah....
2019-08-29T18:35:22 < kakimir> Steffanx: log drive or cache drive.. any thoughts?
2019-08-29T18:37:06 < karlp> jadew: what's wrong with SMA?
2019-08-29T18:37:34 < jadew> nothing, these are options for one of my products
2019-08-29T18:38:14 < jadew> it is more expensive than the base BNC and TNC options
2019-08-29T18:38:55 < jadew> so the new TNC I'm testing might be a more attractive choice
2019-08-29T18:39:08 < Steffanx> I just store the system stuff on an SSD. No cache drive  but... you can do whatever you want ;)
2019-08-29T18:39:25 < Steffanx> Mr kak
2019-08-29T18:39:29 < Steffanx> kakimir: 
2019-08-29T18:39:51 < kakimir> I don't understand steffbox
2019-08-29T18:39:58 < kakimir> how about loging?
2019-08-29T18:40:05 < kakimir> "ADD LOG" button
2019-08-29T18:40:09 < Steffanx> It's the system stuff :P
2019-08-29T18:40:13 < kakimir> I assume it's dedicated drive
2019-08-29T18:40:36 < kakimir> if I don't press it does it log to system drive?
2019-08-29T18:40:37 < Steffanx> I dont recall I've seen that button
2019-08-29T18:40:41 < Steffanx> Yes
2019-08-29T18:41:01 < Steffanx> Might be different logs. Not sure 
2019-08-29T18:41:15 < Steffanx> System logs etc can be moved later too
2019-08-29T18:41:47 < kakimir> it's drive access log
2019-08-29T18:41:59 < kakimir> sorry pool
2019-08-29T18:42:02 < kakimir> or something
2019-08-29T18:42:13 < karlp> I wonder if rust actualyl can make remotely small binaries yet, 
2019-08-29T18:42:31 < kakimir> karlp: why it wouldn't?
2019-08-29T18:42:47 < kakimir> if compared to other options that are not C or asm
2019-08-29T18:44:04 < kakimir> Steffanx: what is group "wheel"?
2019-08-29T18:44:22 < kakimir> why group is called wheel?
2019-08-29T18:45:04 < effractur> kakimir: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/W/wheel.html
2019-08-29T18:45:15 < karlp> kakimir: in the past, it was like go, piles of shit statically linked, youg ot ~1meg binaries for jsut about anything,
2019-08-29T18:45:28 < karlp> so it's ~irrelevant on things like openwrt for instance still
2019-08-29T18:45:46 < karlp> and that was considered a "by design" thing at the time.
2019-08-29T18:45:50 < kakimir> effractur: nice
2019-08-29T18:51:00 < Thorn> sounds like fire alarm on ISS
2019-08-29T18:53:26 <@aandrew> jadew: interesting
2019-08-29T18:53:38 <@aandrew> jadew: I tend to use SMA or MCX
2019-08-29T18:53:55 < jadew> aandrew, yeah, I use SMA whenever possible
2019-08-29T18:55:03 < jadew> BNC can be better too (I have 11 or 12 GHz connectors for testing), but it's pointless to strive for that, since most people will mate it with crap connectors
2019-08-29T18:57:04 <@aandrew> yep
2019-08-29T19:02:23 < kakimir> holy shit I have network drive
2019-08-29T19:02:35 < kakimir> future
2019-08-29T19:02:51 < kakimir> let's benchmark it
2019-08-29T19:03:18 <@aandrew> yeah and i got PTP working I think
2019-08-29T19:04:37 <@aandrew> basically the ADDEND register needed to have its baseline value set correctly to reflect the difference between HCLK and the desired period (20ns, so 50MHz)
2019-08-29T19:05:15 <@aandrew> and then the PI loop that makes adjustments to ADDEND to slew the counter rate needed its limits increased dramatically, at least on the nucleo dev boards
2019-08-29T19:05:32 <@aandrew> the maximal adjustment was 51200, I made it 512000 and it started working. 
2019-08-29T19:05:52 <@aandrew> I *think* this is because the nucleo boards get their clock from MCO of the attached debugger and that's a *really* shitty clock
2019-08-29T19:06:44 < jpa-> shitty how? isn't it from 8MHz crystal anyway?
2019-08-29T19:07:02 < jpa-> otherwise usb to the debugger wouldn't work very well if it wasn't crystal based
2019-08-29T19:08:59 < mawk> yes
2019-08-29T19:17:44 < kakimir> Steffanx: do I need to change pool from root / wheel in order to have permissions to write data?
2019-08-29T19:17:56 < kakimir> or are those just for management?
2019-08-29T19:18:11 < kakimir> and I should look at share permissions?
2019-08-29T19:19:37 <@aandrew> MCO is the output of a pin on the F103. It does come from an 8MHz crustal feeding the F103's OSC though
2019-08-29T19:19:37 < kakimir> share doesn't have permissions :/
2019-08-29T19:21:35 < jpa-> aandrew: that seems like it should be as good as the crystal clock
2019-08-29T19:22:01 < jpa-> but of course it's probably the crappiest crystal on the block
2019-08-29T19:22:02 <@aandrew> I should get a good scope on the pin and see what it's specs are
2019-08-29T19:22:26 <@aandrew> yeah, I have a baord here with a really good 25MHz TCXO, I should see what it is like
2019-08-29T19:25:47 < qyx> anyone ever tried to wake up stm32 from stop mode by i2c?
2019-08-29T19:26:11 < kakimir> 11MBps.. LAME!!
2019-08-29T19:26:17 < qyx> (stm32 being the slave)
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2019-08-29T19:26:58 < kakimir> hmm maybe my network setup have something in 100fullduplex mode
2019-08-29T19:28:52 < kakimir> indeed
2019-08-29T19:32:42 <@aandrew> the STM3210C-EVAL board uses a 25MHz socketed crystal and runs at 72MHz so there's a lot less opportunity for hte PLL to make shitter clocks out of it
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2019-08-29T19:40:06 < Steffanx> kakimir: reading the docs is kinda mandatory :P
2019-08-29T19:40:17 < kakimir> no
2019-08-29T19:40:25 < kakimir> first file copy has been completed
2019-08-29T19:40:34 < Steffanx> Yes, it will tell you all about the permissions and shares
2019-08-29T19:40:46 < Steffanx> It had all kinds of permission stuff
2019-08-29T19:41:37 < Steffanx> NFS, SMB?
2019-08-29T19:41:41 < Steffanx> Webdev?
2019-08-29T19:41:44 < Steffanx> Dav
2019-08-29T19:42:28 < Steffanx> Dont forget to add a 10G NIC. Or 40G :)
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2019-08-29T19:49:17 < englishman> his 40g phy could heat his sauna
2019-08-29T19:52:51 < antto> iz it muzik time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stSkhGpS8eI
2019-08-29T20:04:28 < Steffanx> more music for you antto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBSELrm2-g0 
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2019-08-29T20:49:05 < Cracki> some advice on quartzes pls? got some F303, I see 8 mhz is pretty common. boss is considering 16 and 24 mhz too. clock tree has good solution for all three options. how do these compare in terms of jitter, power consumption, price maybe...?
2019-08-29T20:51:05 < Cracki> does the PLLing inside the stm32 deal better with smaller multiplicators/divisors rather than larger ones, is it particularly advantageous to have /1 or x1 set for some of these?
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2019-08-29T21:24:20 < catphish> linux is mocking me :) 
2019-08-29T21:24:22 < catphish> [  +0.000006] usb 1-2.4: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=0, SerialNumber=0
2019-08-29T21:24:22 < catphish> [  +0.000191] usb 1-2.4: config 0 descriptor??
2019-08-29T21:24:22 < catphish> [  +5.113625] usb 1-2.4: can't set config #0, error -110
2019-08-29T21:26:43 < catphish> it is of course right, 0 is not a valid config number
2019-08-29T21:27:23 < Steffanx> ty lunix? :)
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2019-08-29T21:39:02 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhtemZSUNqU how to ride motorcycle
2019-08-29T21:40:02 < Steffanx> boring.
2019-08-29T21:40:46 < kakimir> yes
2019-08-29T21:42:35 < jadew> do you guys remember my dickstarter?
2019-08-29T21:42:45 < Steffanx> no
2019-08-29T21:42:51 < jadew> think it's something worth getting back to?
2019-08-29T21:43:00 < Steffanx> i dont remember
2019-08-29T21:43:03 < jadew> Steffanx, the protocol sniffer/injector
2019-08-29T21:43:14 < Steffanx> doesnt ring a bell :P
2019-08-29T21:43:24 < jadew> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/proto-talk#/
2019-08-29T21:43:39 < jadew> several years old
2019-08-29T21:43:56 < jadew> 5
2019-08-29T21:44:25 < jadew> it didn't get funded, so I just dropped it
2019-08-29T21:44:33 < jadew> but I wonder now if I should have kept pushing it
2019-08-29T21:44:36 < Steffanx> I bet it got lost in between the blaxter talk back then
2019-08-29T21:45:10 < jadew> there are a couple of videos there, showing it working, but nothing spectacular
2019-08-29T21:45:23 < Steffanx> didnt that bvernoux guy make osmething like this as well?
2019-08-29T21:45:33 < Steffanx> piratething done better?
2019-08-29T21:45:34 < mawk> everyone knows your name now jadew 
2019-08-29T21:45:51 < jadew> Steffanx, don't know, lots of people did devices like this
2019-08-29T21:46:05 < jadew> but mine was really awesome, the cool parts were in the specs
2019-08-29T21:46:18 < jadew> like this: 1 bps to 10 Mbps @ less than 0.2% baudrate error.
2019-08-29T21:46:35 < jadew> and this: Synchronous master mode.
2019-08-29T21:46:39 < Steffanx> i already knew that mawk
2019-08-29T21:46:51 < jadew> which is not something natively supported by the stm32f4
2019-08-29T21:46:57 < kakimir> jadew: is that better than buspirate?
2019-08-29T21:46:58 < jadew> mawk, it's not a secret
2019-08-29T21:47:02 < kakimir> or whatever it's called
2019-08-29T21:47:07 < jadew> kakimir, like... 100 times better
2019-08-29T21:48:37 < catphish> i could really use a way to sniff USB right now
2019-08-29T21:48:51 < catphish> wireshark can't see beyond my on board hub :(
2019-08-29T21:49:06 < jadew> catphish, yeah, you'll want a USB sniffer for that
2019-08-29T21:49:17 < catphish> you'd think so wouldn't you
2019-08-29T21:49:32 < catphish> i think i'm getting there anyway by trial and error
2019-08-29T21:50:19 < Steffanx> once in a while a usb beagle shows up at ebay
2019-08-29T21:52:51 < jadew> I take it it doesn't tickle anyone?
2019-08-29T21:52:58 < Steffanx> or get a usb beagle 12, not too expensive. although still a bit out of hobby budget
2019-08-29T21:53:47 < kakimir> how about the interface jadew?
2019-08-29T21:53:55 < jadew> kakimir, to talk to it?
2019-08-29T21:54:02 < kakimir> to do anything with it
2019-08-29T21:54:05 < jadew> check one of the videos (not the first one)
2019-08-29T21:54:42 < jadew> maybe the last one there
2019-08-29T21:55:59 < kakimir> does it have other modes than promt?
2019-08-29T21:56:32 < jadew> was supposed to have an SDK that worked with a binary mode
2019-08-29T22:01:15 < Steffanx> where did the first vid go mr jadew?
2019-08-29T22:01:24 < jadew> I hid it, I didn't like my face in it
2019-08-29T22:02:06 < Steffanx> lol
2019-08-29T22:03:14 < jadew> those prices were insanely low
2019-08-29T22:03:18 < jadew> I don't know what I was thinking
2019-08-29T22:04:25 < jadew> (and it still didn't sell)
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2019-08-29T22:12:44 < Steffanx> 50 dollar isnt that low for a random hobby budget :P
2019-08-29T22:12:55 < jadew> yeah, I think that's the problem
2019-08-29T22:13:05 < jadew> it's also not enough to be worth it for me
2019-08-29T22:13:20 < kakimir> 50 bucks is nothin
2019-08-29T22:13:35 < jadew> I spent ~3 months day and night on the firmware you see in the prototype
2019-08-29T22:13:47 < jadew> and I wasn't even halfway where I wanted to be
2019-08-29T22:13:58 < jadew> so it would have been a huge time investment
2019-08-29T22:14:05 < kakimir> and isn't buspirate like 120eur or something
2019-08-29T22:14:18 < jadew> I thought it's like $20
2019-08-29T22:14:43 < jadew> $27
2019-08-29T22:16:21 < jadew> it's designed around the chinese philosophy: the bare minimum
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2019-08-29T22:18:03 < specing> you can get fx2lp dongle for $2
2019-08-29T22:18:09 < specing> usb 2.0 logic sniffer
2019-08-29T22:18:16 < specing> the price can't be beat
2019-08-29T22:18:57 < jadew> yeah, I guess there are already too many cheap tools
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2019-08-29T22:22:33 < kakimir> and there is tools around that fx2
2019-08-29T22:22:36 < kakimir> and also raspi
2019-08-29T22:22:42 < kakimir> with it's gpio
2019-08-29T22:22:49 < jadew> yeah, makes sense
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2019-08-29T22:43:46 < PaulFertser> Cracki: nothing useful here https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/crystal-parts.txt but please ping karlp so that he adds the data once you get it :)
2019-08-29T22:45:39 < catphish> one infuriating thing about this usb code is that i get different results on different executions, sometimes the descriptors can be read, sometimes not
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2019-08-29T22:54:04 < catphish> i wonder if my hardware design is at fault, seems weird that the code would work only sometimes :(
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2019-08-29T23:13:46 < catphish> yep, seems to just be huge packet loss :(
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2019-08-29T23:21:48 < catphish> also, this usb stm32 board is audibly noisy :|
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2019-08-29T23:22:34 < mawk> what would make noise on it ?
2019-08-29T23:24:39 < catphish> i assume it's the MLCCs on the usb power supply
2019-08-29T23:24:54 < catphish> assuming the stm32 itself isn't capable of being noisy
2019-08-29T23:25:32 < catphish> really is the world's simplest PCB https://i.imgur.com/TEDFmct.jpg
2019-08-29T23:26:30 < qyx> did you measure power consumption?
2019-08-29T23:26:42 < catphish> i did not
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2019-08-29T23:28:23 < qyx> stm32 could be noisy, configure GPIO as PWM and short it to ground :> 
2019-08-29T23:29:03 < catphish> well i'm pretty confused so far, USB connection works intermittently, but some requests always succeed, so not sure it can be a hardware problem
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2019-08-29T23:40:02 < englishman> msp430 sucks
2019-08-29T23:40:45 < MrMobius> jesus not htis propganda again
2019-08-29T23:42:00 < Cracki> PaulFertser, thx, boss will be happy about smaller crystal options too
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2019-08-29T23:46:08 < Cracki> curious that 12/24 MHz "will be cheaper" than 8 MHz...
2019-08-29T23:47:48 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@94.11.204.120] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-29T23:48:07 < kakimir> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HTIS
2019-08-29T23:52:03 < MrMobius> thanks for the english tips kakimir
2019-08-29T23:52:07 < Cracki> any advantage to crystals of a particular frequency (8/12/16/24) apart from the most convenient clock tree?
2019-08-29T23:58:52 < karlp> Cracki: there's a foot note somewhere that ~2Mhz is "better" than ~1Mhz for the PLL input, at least for one of the families
2019-08-29T23:59:33 < karlp> catphish: config 0 is real, it's for resetting, you need to handle it too, you just can't (shouldn't) use it as a config number of your own descriptor
--- Day changed Fri Aug 30 2019
2019-08-30T00:00:21 < karlp> Cracki: if you trawl digikey and places, you'll fidn it's easier/cheaper to find higher frequencies in smaller packages, up to a point
2019-08-30T00:00:58 < karlp> I may still have a spreadsheet from when I was picking a size for a board we did a while ago, but 12-16 was cheapest for 3225 size, at the time.
2019-08-30T00:01:23 < karlp> hc49-smd is _super_ cheap, if you can bear using such a jumbotron
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2019-08-30T00:02:04 < karlp> I never found anything on whether the _input_ speed mattered though.
2019-08-30T00:03:22 < Thorn> 3225 is the only true package
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2019-08-30T00:06:40 < karlp> specing: you can't reliably do usb sniffing with the fx2lp dongles, they're barely sort of just reaching nyquist for usb-fs, it's certainly not what you'd want for reliable sniffing.
2019-08-30T00:07:03 < karlp> however... there's almost as cheap 100Mhz ones for ~25 or so, with some dram and an fpga that _can_ 
2019-08-30T00:08:21 < karlp> Thorn:2520 is cheaper at seeed opl, fwiw.
2019-08-30T00:08:24 < specing> karlp: depends on what you want to sniff
2019-08-30T00:08:33 < specing> some UART/SPI/I2C? No problem
2019-08-30T00:08:39 < karlp> usb-fs, you're going to have a shitty time with that 
2019-08-30T00:08:43 < karlp> we were talking about usb sniffing
2019-08-30T00:08:46 < karlp> not uart/spi/i2c.
2019-08-30T00:09:03 < catphish> karlp: does the host request config 0 to disable the device then?
2019-08-30T00:09:12 < fenugrec> karlp, an LA with DRAM for <30 that isnt a logic16 clone ? where
2019-08-30T00:09:38 < karlp> fenugrec: is there something wrong with it being a similar hardware platform to the old logic16?
2019-08-30T00:09:53 < karlp> there's open bitstreams for them, you don't have to use any salaea code illegally.
2019-08-30T00:10:12 < karlp> catphish: iirc, yes, something like that, usb in a nutshell should cover it, 
2019-08-30T00:10:31 < karlp> if you wireshark a normal device after plug in you should see it too.
2019-08-30T00:11:29 < catphish> karlp: right now i'm totally baffled by my USB, it seems completely random as to whether replies reach my host or not :(
2019-08-30T00:11:34 < fenugrec> karlp, nothing wrong, but the logic16 has no dram
2019-08-30T00:11:42 < karlp> catphish: https://github.com/karlp/libopencm3/blob/master/tests/gadget-zero/test_gadget0.py#L52-L55
2019-08-30T00:11:47 < Thorn> dslogic without ram is $65, with sdram $110 iirc (you can buy the cheap one and install the ram yourself)
2019-08-30T00:12:26 < karlp> oh maybe it doesn't ahve ram, whatever, it works https://sigrok.org/wiki/Mcupro_Logic16_clone
2019-08-30T00:13:38 < fenugrec> ok ok, yeah. It does work indeed. It's debatable how "cloned" they are when they have different hardware, different bitstream, and are used with sigrok
2019-08-30T00:15:07 < karlp> I find the term clone rather offesnive in that context honestly :)
2019-08-30T00:15:21 < karlp> it's like when people talk about the fx2 dongles as being saleae logic 8 clones.
2019-08-30T00:15:29 < karlp> when it's all just cypress ref design
2019-08-30T00:15:34 < fenugrec> heh
2019-08-30T00:15:59 < bvernoux> karlp, in that case it is the reverse bit saleae logic which has "cloned" the ref design with some mods ;)
2019-08-30T00:16:05 < fenugrec> I guess the main thing is the identical VID:PID that makes them "clones"
2019-08-30T00:16:11 < bvernoux> -bit
2019-08-30T00:17:07 < bvernoux> anyway I like Saleae logic stuff but their logic Pro8/16 are clearly too expensive for what it is 
2019-08-30T00:17:23 < bvernoux> for that price you can have a good oscilloscope with USB 3.0 ;)
2019-08-30T00:17:41 < karlp> with how many channels? :)
2019-08-30T00:17:41 < bvernoux> but yes without SW as good as the one provided by saleae
2019-08-30T00:17:56 < bvernoux> yes with less chan ;)
2019-08-30T00:18:05 < bvernoux> or with 16 MSO also ;)
2019-08-30T00:18:18 < karlp> jadew: glasgow is another project like yours, though I can't say I like their docs: https://github.com/GlasgowEmbedded/Glasgow/
2019-08-30T00:18:52 < bvernoux> my Picoscope was priced like Logic Pro16 and it is better than LogicPro16 as I have a real scope with 16MSO ;)
2019-08-30T00:18:53 < catphish> oh ffs
2019-08-30T00:19:19 < catphish> all my usb problems were caused by timeouts resulting from my uart debug prints
2019-08-30T00:19:55 < karlp> catphish:hahahahah
2019-08-30T00:20:09 < karlp> bvernoux:which picoscope have you got?
2019-08-30T00:20:24 < karlp> catphish: what target ar you on again? if it's m3 or better, USE SWO
2019-08-30T00:20:34 < bvernoux> 3406DMSO ;)
2019-08-30T00:20:43 < bvernoux> it was a special promotion bought years ago
2019-08-30T00:20:53 < bvernoux> so price was excellent IIRC about 1Keuros
2019-08-30T00:21:00 < catphish> i've never used SWO
2019-08-30T00:21:05 < karlp> it's windows only software right?
2019-08-30T00:21:09 < karlp> catphish: time to start :)
2019-08-30T00:21:19 < bvernoux> no it's linux & windows sw
2019-08-30T00:21:27 < catphish> karlp: seems like a good idea
2019-08-30T00:21:28 < bvernoux> and the API is excellent to drive it
2019-08-30T00:21:30 < karlp> or roll your own log to ram bugger and dump instead
2019-08-30T00:21:46 < bvernoux> doing amazing things with it impossible to do with any other scope even 10x more expensive ;)
2019-08-30T00:21:50 < catphish> ultimately it's my intention to write a character buffer use USB itself for debug console
2019-08-30T00:21:55 < bvernoux> especially realtime streaming over USB3.0 ;)
2019-08-30T00:22:09 < catphish> but can't use usb for debug until usb works :)
2019-08-30T00:22:46 < catphish> on the plus side, now that i've removed the uart debug lines, my usb successfully enumerates, PC can see a virtual COM port :)
2019-08-30T00:23:37  * karlp cheers
2019-08-30T00:31:00 < catphish> https://github.com/catphish/amiga-floppy/blob/master/usb.c
2019-08-30T00:31:13 < catphish> basically a cheap copy of zyp's code
2019-08-30T00:32:53 < fenugrec> I have a large gap in LA capabilities between the logic16 and the HP1660C with 136ch@100MHz but 4k sample depth...
2019-08-30T00:33:28 < englishman> they don't even sell logic8 anymore afaik
2019-08-30T00:33:36 < englishman> so they are no longer clones
2019-08-30T00:33:43 < englishman> now it's abandonhardware
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2019-08-30T01:49:46 < catphish> is it possible to create a usb serial device that doesn't pretend to be a modem / real rs232 port? and just provides raw data at full usb rate?
2019-08-30T01:50:40 < catphish> it seems a tad stupid to fake all uart / modem stuff
2019-08-30T01:50:52 < Thorn> with a custom driver, yes
2019-08-30T01:51:28 < catphish> this isn't something linux understands by default then?
2019-08-30T01:51:45 <@aandrew> http://linux-sunxi.org/images/b/ba/F1C100s_Datasheet_V1.0.pdf wpw tjat
2019-08-30T01:51:49 <@aandrew> wow that's quite the device
2019-08-30T01:52:54 < catphish> all allwinner socs can be described in that manner :)
2019-08-30T01:52:55 <@aandrew> 88 pin QFN, has 32MB and ARM9 on board, runs mainline linux
2019-08-30T01:53:29 < catphish> oo built in ram
2019-08-30T01:53:49 < catphish> that's impressive
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2019-08-30T01:55:50 < catphish> but seriously, who invented usb and didn't think to add a plain text interface first
2019-08-30T01:56:33 <@aandrew> easy enough to get on ali
2019-08-30T01:57:04 <@aandrew> it's all design by committee
2019-08-30T01:57:43 < catphish> i'm sure i can implement a full cdc device
2019-08-30T01:57:46 < catphish> it just seems dumb
2019-08-30T02:08:17 < Cracki> catphish, teutonic usb tutorial mentions how to do your own communication. just needs libusb/winusb/whatever, so prolly works on anything
2019-08-30T02:09:08 < Cracki> his cdc is "full" too, but that mostly means pipe of bytes. he implements a virtual com port (with baud rate, control signals etc) on top
2019-08-30T02:10:26 < Cracki> he first does plain communication using bulk(?) endpoints, handling packets yourself. then he does the descriptors so it's recognized as a tty, and then he does the vcp part
2019-08-30T02:10:37 < catphish> there's a few things i want to implement, a really dumb serial port for debug info, a mass storage device, and ultimately a custom endpoint that communicates with bespoke software
2019-08-30T02:10:38 < Cracki> (attached to an uart peripheral of the chip)
2019-08-30T02:11:25 < Cracki> I'm having a project where it'll have a text shell for command and config, and a custom thingy where I pipe telemetry into
2019-08-30T02:11:33 < catphish> looks like for the simple plain text serial port i will need to use cdc, but hopefully i can disable most of the unnecesary functionlity (baud control,flow control, etc)
2019-08-30T02:11:46 < Cracki> dude, you need none of that
2019-08-30T02:12:09 < Cracki> I had cubemx instantiate the basic usb device with cdc and it's just throwing packets around
2019-08-30T02:12:16 < Cracki> no baud stuff or control signals
2019-08-30T02:12:27 < Cracki> the only flow control you see is usb-inherent
2019-08-30T02:13:06 < catphish> perfect, maybe this won't be too tricky then
2019-08-30T02:13:34 < catphish> just found a nice simple definition for a cdc interface with no optional stuff, will try it now
2019-08-30T02:13:37 < Cracki> cubemx didn't give me code (that I could see) that's byte-oriented or does any buffering, so repeated writes of single bytes would send one (small) packet per millisecond
2019-08-30T02:13:59 < Thorn> you can always create an interface with class "custom" and open it with libusb, but that will only work with your own custom host software (and only 1 process at the same time)
2019-08-30T02:14:01 < Cracki> I'll have to implement some buffering myself
2019-08-30T02:14:27 < catphish> Thorn: later i will be doing exactly that, but want to get standard cdc and mass storage working first
2019-08-30T02:14:55 < karlp> catphish: they did, it's called bulk. you can do what ever you want.
2019-08-30T02:15:18 < karlp> cdc-acm was designed so you could be mostly transparent to existing acm devices, not so you could build brand new shit that ws just tx/rx.
2019-08-30T02:15:37 < karlp> catphish: _many_ of the usb2uart chips don't use cdc-acm for that reason.
2019-08-30T02:16:08 < catphish> i just want an interface that presents bulk as a character device on linux
2019-08-30T02:16:19 < karlp> you don'ðt really. you just think you do.
2019-08-30T02:16:33 < karlp> what exactly would a chardev behave like?
2019-08-30T02:16:45 < karlp> youcouldn't use any of your "serial" softwar ewith it.
2019-08-30T02:16:57 < Thorn> catphish: do you need to communicate with your device from multiple processes concurrently?
2019-08-30T02:17:03 < catphish> no
2019-08-30T02:17:04 < karlp> you can just completely ignore all baud and modem shits.
2019-08-30T02:17:11 < catphish> i literally just want to cat it and see my log
2019-08-30T02:17:30 < catphish> baby steps
2019-08-30T02:17:35 < Thorn> then use a custom interface (with bulk endpoints) + libusb
2019-08-30T02:18:02 < catphish> that involves writing bespoke host software
2019-08-30T02:18:03 < Cracki> if you want it cattable, do the cdc
2019-08-30T02:18:07 < catphish> i will certainly do so later
2019-08-30T02:18:09 < Cracki> cdc doesn't mean baud rate
2019-08-30T02:18:20 < catphish> yeah, i think i can do super basic cdc :)
2019-08-30T02:18:26 < Cracki> unless I'm mixing these TLAs up
2019-08-30T02:18:34 < catphish> then later abandon it in favour of a custom bulk endpoint
2019-08-30T02:19:40 < Cracki> hm, some attempt at clarifying these TLAs... https://rfc1149.net/blog/2013/03/05/what-is-the-difference-between-devttyusbx-and-devttyacmx/
2019-08-30T02:20:32 < catphish> i read that
2019-08-30T02:20:44 < catphish> and weirdly, it didn't explain anything
2019-08-30T02:20:46 < Cracki> I'm sick and tired of this ancient terminology
2019-08-30T02:20:57 < Cracki> I begin to see that too
2019-08-30T02:21:33 < karlp> ttyUSB means "uses a custom driver" ttyACM means "uses cdc-acm standard"
2019-08-30T02:22:55 < catphish> oh ok
2019-08-30T02:23:08 < catphish> well that makes a lot more sense
2019-08-30T02:23:20 < Cracki> apparently you can just ignore all these attributes of a cdc-acm (baud rate, parity)...
2019-08-30T02:23:24 < catphish> anyway, i'm gonna write this standard cdc interface and see how it goes
2019-08-30T02:23:28 < kakimir> https://pr0gramm.com/top/3389321
2019-08-30T02:23:35 < catphish> will try just not defining any of that
2019-08-30T02:23:37 < Cracki> kakimir, got invite?
2019-08-30T02:23:53 < kakimir> Cracki?
2019-08-30T02:24:01 < Cracki> you use that site without a login?
2019-08-30T02:24:08 < Cracki> you're missing all the fun parts
2019-08-30T02:24:33 < Cracki> you can lern ze german from reading the tags
2019-08-30T02:25:20 < kakimir> could you teach me ze german?
2019-08-30T02:25:41 < Cracki> Kadse = cat
2019-08-30T02:25:44 < Cracki> Bellkadse = barking cat
2019-08-30T02:26:18 < Cracki> Kefer = bug, Schlauchkefer = snake. Schlauchkadse = ferret or something
2019-08-30T02:30:47 < Cracki> catphish, page 6 has a nice tree of device/config/interface/.../endpoint https://www.xmos.com/download/AN00124:-USB-CDC-Class-as-Virtual-Serial-Port(2.0.2rc1).pdf
2019-08-30T02:42:25 < machinehum> Has anyone used the SPIRIT1QTR
2019-08-30T02:43:13 < machinehum> It's a ST subghz
2019-08-30T02:47:18 < kakimir> lesbian space crime
2019-08-30T03:13:34 < catphish> Cracki: thanks, that's one i've been using, managed to present a CDC device, now to make it respond, some control is definitey needed, but doesn't seem like much
2019-08-30T03:14:03 < Cracki> you could always get cubemx to generate something and compare notes? :P
2019-08-30T03:14:17 < kakimir> https://pr0gramm.com/top/3386420
2019-08-30T03:15:43 < Cracki> >very accurate scale models
2019-08-30T03:15:47 < Cracki> yes they do.
2019-08-30T03:15:49 < catphish> that happened
2019-08-30T03:16:26 < Cracki> tag Paulanergarten indicates incredulity
2019-08-30T03:17:45 < Cracki> https://pr0gramm.com/top/Geschichten%20ausm%20Paulanergarten/3303049
2019-08-30T03:18:36 < Cracki> https://pr0gramm.com/top/Geschichten%20ausm%20Paulanergarten/3348744
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2019-08-30T03:20:09 < karlp> heh, was considereing "I should just use usb, I'd need less isolation channels"
2019-08-30T03:20:26 < karlp> then I looked at the price of adum4160 and went, "isolation channels are fine...."
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2019-08-30T03:47:54 < mawk> lol
2019-08-30T03:53:17 <@aandrew> hm, HAL's onepulse setup is kind of screwy
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2019-08-30T05:51:45 < emeb_mac> haha - found a bug in H7 HAL today.
2019-08-30T05:51:56 < Cracki> sharing is caring
2019-08-30T05:52:32 < emeb_mac> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X0000BGtbFhSQJ
2019-08-30T05:54:52 < Cracki> excellent
2019-08-30T05:55:42 < emeb_mac> Upside: H7 PLLs have fractional N so it's not hard to get accurate freqs for things like audio clocks.
2019-08-30T05:55:51 < emeb_mac> Downside: buggy HAL.
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2019-08-30T06:16:32 < jadew> catphish, USB serial device does work at full speed
2019-08-30T06:16:40 < jadew> regardless of the settings
2019-08-30T06:17:12 < jadew> the line settings are just sent to the device, in the idea that it uses that to configure the UART peripheral, but if you're just streaming data to the PC, it's going to be at full speed
2019-08-30T06:17:20 < jadew> there's no throttling mechanism
2019-08-30T06:18:32 < jadew> karlp, that looks like an interesting project
2019-08-30T06:20:26 < jadew> ah, my remarks about the USB serial stuff were already covered (sorry, catching up with the scrollback)
2019-08-30T06:20:49 < Cracki> validation
2019-08-30T06:25:33 < jadew> ebay are real dicks when it comes to buy it now auctions
2019-08-30T06:26:05 < jadew> I clearly remember seeing the notice that "if I don't pay now, someone else can snatch the item"
2019-08-30T06:26:21 < jadew> while yesterday I ended up with a commitment to buy before paying
2019-08-30T06:26:37 < jadew> and they're making it difficult to cancel (in fact, you can't cancel)
2019-08-30T06:26:49 < jadew> you have to pay or ask the seller to cancel and it's up to him
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2019-08-30T06:37:57 < Cracki> uh
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2019-08-30T06:42:32 <@aandrew> yep jadew is right
2019-08-30T06:42:42 <@aandrew> baudrate is irrelavent if you're comms terminate inside the stm32
2019-08-30T06:43:31 <@aandrew> jadew: I've always seen buy it now as commitment 
2019-08-30T06:45:02 < jadew> aandrew, I remember being stressed out by that notice that "I have to pay otherwise someone else is going to buy it" on several occasions
2019-08-30T06:45:20 < jadew> anyway, the seller was kind enough to cancel it
2019-08-30T06:45:41 < jadew> all I wanted was to add it to my cart anyway
2019-08-30T06:48:45 <@aandrew> hm, I don't recall ever seeing that
2019-08-30T06:49:01 <@aandrew> it was always the "buy it now" button becomes "commit to buy" on the next page
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2019-08-30T11:33:16 < the_spacebyte> What you guys now about SYSCFG_MEMRMP_SWP_FB on an stm32F767?
2019-08-30T11:33:42 < the_spacebyte> As soon as I set that bit my device freezes. When I switch it on again it didn't swap flash banks
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2019-08-30T11:59:28 < the_spacebyte> Haohmaru that would be a much clearer name
2019-08-30T11:59:36 < qyx> the_spacebyte: are you executing form flash?
2019-08-30T11:59:45 < the_spacebyte> "touch here for freezing"
2019-08-30T12:00:32 < the_spacebyte> qyx yeah, but I've tried placing the function where I call it into RAM but to no avail. For this register _all_ the code needs to be outside of flash or just the place where I set the bit?
2019-08-30T12:02:11 < qyx> idk but I would say it freezes on return from the function
2019-08-30T12:02:31 < qyx> personally I have no experience with switching flash banks on F7
2019-08-30T12:03:04 < the_spacebyte> qyx hm ok, never though of that. I assumed it froze as soon as I set the bit.
2019-08-30T12:03:45 < qyx> your code is gone when you remap the flash
2019-08-30T12:03:52 < qyx> how could it continue?
2019-08-30T12:04:27 < qyx> maybe try to flash both banks with exactly the same code if it works that way
2019-08-30T12:05:21 < the_spacebyte> yeah makes sense. What I don't understand is that, as fas as I can tell, it doesn't remap the banks. I have 2 firmwares with distinct LED flashing patterns and see no difference
2019-08-30T12:06:17 < qyx> no difference in what, flashing pattern?
2019-08-30T12:06:24 < qyx> or does the LED stops flashing
2019-08-30T12:06:34 < the_spacebyte> yeah, it's still booting from firmware 1
2019-08-30T12:06:49 < the_spacebyte> when it should have booted from firmware 2
2019-08-30T12:06:51 < qyx> oh, is it non-volatile?
2019-08-30T12:06:57 < qyx> the register
2019-08-30T12:07:05 < qyx> wait what
2019-08-30T12:08:30 < the_spacebyte> it being volatile would explain why it isn't working I guess
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2019-08-30T12:09:57 < the_spacebyte> I know there some registers that store the boot addres (BOOT_ADD0 and BOOT_ADD1) but nowhere it says that you should change them when writting to SWP_FB
2019-08-30T12:10:15 < the_spacebyte> I was trying to follow the following application note: https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/application_note/group0/d2/bd/77/e8/0d/3a/43/cf/DM00266999/files/DM00266999.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00266999.pdf
2019-08-30T12:21:36 < qyx> if (buf == NULL)...
2019-08-30T12:21:38 < qyx> printf("Failed to apply for black memory...\r\n");
2019-08-30T12:52:13 < dongs> hm nice
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2019-08-30T13:25:46 < grummund> Hi all o/
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2019-08-30T13:26:29 < Steffanx> \
2019-08-30T13:26:31 < grummund> typing
2019-08-30T13:26:47 < Steffanx> Whoa grummund  is that you?
2019-08-30T13:26:56 < grummund> cest moi
2019-08-30T13:27:05 < Steffanx> Must have been 5+ years :P
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2019-08-30T13:27:31 < grummund> maybe :p
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2019-08-30T13:29:02 < grummund> any interesting projects?
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2019-08-30T13:32:35 < grummund> anyone using freertos?
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2019-08-30T13:33:13  * grummund confused whether to get it from github or sourceforge
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2019-08-30T13:35:17 < dongs> soresforge is still around?
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2019-08-30T13:36:00 < dongs> wiht ads everywhere?
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2019-08-30T13:38:46 < Steffanx> I never see em
2019-08-30T13:38:57 < qyx> grummund: freertos is not on github, is it?
2019-08-30T13:39:05 < qyx> I mean officially
2019-08-30T13:39:22 < grummund> qyx: amazon freertos is
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2019-08-30T13:40:42 < dongs> agreed
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2019-08-30T13:47:35 < karlp> grummund: the freertos.org downloads (that come from sourceforge) are "just" the freertos core bits.
2019-08-30T13:47:57 < karlp> the amazon one on github contains all the os, but also all the extra bits, and uses different versioning
2019-08-30T13:48:03 < karlp> use whichever you like...
2019-08-30T13:50:04 < grummund> karlp: right now i just want to get a simple demo running on F103 board
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2019-08-30T13:50:35 < karlp> I'd use the sourceforge one, it's less to wade through
2019-08-30T13:50:53 < dongs> why does amazon maintain feertos
2019-08-30T13:51:17 < karlp> but it's the same.  the sourceforge zip's Source directory is equivalent to https://github.com/aws/amazon-freertos/tree/master/freertos_kernel 
2019-08-30T13:51:21 < karlp> dongs: because they own it?
2019-08-30T13:51:32 < grummund> so amazon freertos is a superset, including all the little demos that'll never talsk to AWS ?
2019-08-30T13:52:05 < karlp> amazon-freertos drops all the sourceforge demos and adds in their owns.
2019-08-30T13:53:04 < karlp> but if you just want the kernel, it doesn't matter whether you use the github module or the sourceforge one.
2019-08-30T13:54:08 < grummund> eventually i want to use it with amazon but right now all i have is a STM32F103 board
2019-08-30T13:54:53 < dongs> feertos seems a bit too bloated for F103
2019-08-30T13:54:57 < dongs> why not use some simple shit
2019-08-30T13:55:08 < dongs> like cmsis-rtx or something
2019-08-30T13:55:17 < grummund> because that's the only board i have right now
2019-08-30T13:55:55 < karlp> dongs: pretty mcuh ~same I'd say really.
2019-08-30T13:56:13 < grummund> eventually moving to STM32L475
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2019-08-30T13:56:24 < karlp> cmsis-rtx gets you more complicated setup if you're not using keil, but you don't hve to use uvxBullSHIT_NAminG_ freertos stuff
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2019-08-30T14:01:37 < Laurenceb_> suppp
2019-08-30T14:02:26 < Laurenceb_> I've been asked to help coax my mums autistic friends hokamuri son out of his lair
2019-08-30T14:02:55 < Laurenceb_> problem is I dont want to go near her house because of her autism
2019-08-30T14:03:26 < Laurenceb_> and her son is about ten times even more autistic than she is
2019-08-30T14:03:54 < Laurenceb_> imagine if a female chris chan had a son
2019-08-30T14:04:22 < Laurenceb_> google is your friend
2019-08-30T14:04:38 < Laurenceb_> yeah that even
2019-08-30T14:05:27 < Laurenceb_> she has layered the inside of her house with paper mache about 1 meter thick
2019-08-30T14:05:49 < Laurenceb_> and she is furry, and dresses as a duck
2019-08-30T14:06:16 < Laurenceb_> no, a friend of my mum
2019-08-30T14:06:48 < Laurenceb_> she has removed the engine from her car and pays her neighbour to tow it with her inside
2019-08-30T14:07:21 < Laurenceb_> I'm trying to imagine how weird her son is, apparently he has aspergers about ten times worse than she does
2019-08-30T14:07:50 < Laurenceb_> and hasnt left his room for ten years
2019-08-30T14:08:13 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2019-08-30T14:09:27 < catphish> i have another usb question for anyone who cares: i was surprised to see that the SETUP functionality is used for calls that are specific to specific interfaces, for example CDC seems to use SETUP to configure the serial port, but i can only find documentation for how SETUP is used to configure the device globally, can someone point me in the direction of these class specific SETUP calls?
2019-08-30T14:09:59 < Laurenceb_> ST-HAL ?
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2019-08-30T14:10:44 < karlp> are you talking about standard control requests?
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2019-08-30T14:12:09 < catphish> perhaps, i'm not sure what they're called
2019-08-30T14:12:23 < catphish> they consist of a setup packet followed by some data, to ep0
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2019-08-30T14:13:32 < karlp> right, yes.
2019-08-30T14:13:39 < karlp> have you got the usb cdc class docs?
2019-08-30T14:13:54 < karlp> you're probably looking for chapter 6 in PSTN120.pdf
2019-08-30T14:14:11 < catphish> i have, i'll take a look there, thanks
2019-08-30T14:14:12 < karlp> CDC120-20101103-track is the top level file.
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2019-08-30T14:14:36 < catphish> it was offensive to me at first that ep0 was used in this way
2019-08-30T14:14:44 < catphish> but hopefully it'll make sense soon
2019-08-30T14:14:59 < karlp> why offensive?
2019-08-30T14:15:11 < karlp> it's ... the definition of ep0
2019-08-30T14:15:58 < catphish> yeah, i think it will make sense, as long as it's somehow scoped by interface
2019-08-30T14:16:13 < karlp> there's a request type field
2019-08-30T14:16:17 < catphish> i was thinking that each interface should have its own control endpoint
2019-08-30T14:16:19 < catphish> but that's not the case
2019-08-30T14:16:23 < karlp> you can target device, interface, endpoint,
2019-08-30T14:16:34 < karlp> there's afourth option too. can't remmeber off the top of my head.
2019-08-30T14:17:04 < catphish> oh, i see, an ep0 request can target an interface, that makes sense now
2019-08-30T14:17:04 < catphish> thanks
2019-08-30T14:17:16 < catphish> it was very late last night that i ran into this :)
2019-08-30T14:17:57 < karlp> have a look at the fields in bRequestType at https://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb6.shtml#SetupPacket
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2019-08-30T14:18:35 < karlp> device/intf/endpoint/other/undefined, and then you get direction, standard/class/vendor too. plenty of ways of targetting :)
2019-08-30T14:19:21 < karlp> wValue and wIndex are the confusing ones IMO, shuld just be "paramA" and "paramB"
2019-08-30T14:20:47 < catphish> interstingly the chinese usb serial adapter i just plugged in doesn't identify as CDC at all, it looks like cdc, but identifies as a snowflake
2019-08-30T14:21:03 < catphish> i assume linux has a big list of things it knows are cdc even though they don't claim to be
2019-08-30T14:21:27 < karlp> identifies as a snowflake?
2019-08-30T14:21:55 < catphish> "vendor specific device" "vendor specific interface"
2019-08-30T14:22:04 < catphish> not class-standard
2019-08-30T14:22:33 < karlp> so what do you mean by "looks like cdc" then?
2019-08-30T14:22:47 < karlp> this is back to what we said yesterday, does it provide a ttyACMx or a ttyUSBx?
2019-08-30T14:23:00 < karlp> (what device is it?)
2019-08-30T14:23:17 < karlp> ch34x? cp210x? pl230x? ft23x? one of the more exotic ones?
2019-08-30T14:23:39 < karlp> (because _none_ of them are cdc-acm)
2019-08-30T14:24:54 < catphish> you're quite right
2019-08-30T14:25:01 < catphish> [  +0.000588] usb 1-2: ch341-uart converter now attached to ttyUSB0
2019-08-30T14:25:47 < catphish> not cdc at all, just has the same set of 3 endpoints, but without any of the standard cdc config
2019-08-30T14:26:46 < karlp> the three endpoints is actually a reason some times you see people _not_ using cdc-acm, as you can do more virtual comm ports with a private driver, 
2019-08-30T14:27:05 < karlp> ie, 6 eps on some of the stm32s can let you do 2 cdc-acm, or 3 if you use private drivers.
2019-08-30T14:29:12 < catphish> that makes sense, i guess you can neglect the interrupt EPs
2019-08-30T14:29:19 < catphish> i haven't really see what they're for yet anyway
2019-08-30T14:31:07 < karlp> (but it requires you to either a) provide your own drivers or b) implement the same behaviour as someone else and hijack theirs)
2019-08-30T14:34:10 < catphish> that makes sense
2019-08-30T14:34:26 < catphish> anyway, i'm happy to stick with CDC for now, it's only a temporary measure to see logs and learn USB
2019-08-30T14:34:49 < catphish> then i'll be doing mass storage
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2019-08-30T14:39:02 < qyx> ordered a random 2.7" e-paper from buydisplay.com with a rpi hat
2019-08-30T14:39:12 < qyx> then I tried the provided demo code, works
2019-08-30T14:39:21 < qyx> I tried partial refresh, works
2019-08-30T14:39:26 < qyx> tried some other modes, works
2019-08-30T14:39:27 < qyx> meh
2019-08-30T14:39:30 < qyx> e-paper is not fun anymore
2019-08-30T14:39:33 < catphish> lol
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2019-08-30T14:57:03 < jpa-> qyx: use a raw one :)
2019-08-30T15:01:49 < qyx> yeah
2019-08-30T15:01:59 < qyx> I planned to after reading your blag
2019-08-30T15:05:19 < hdt551> Hello, I have a custom board using a STM32F105.  The board is powered by USB and I also want to use it as a USB device.
2019-08-30T15:05:59 < hdt551> I do not want to use VBUS.  I am using STM32CubeMX for the initial setup and it is configured to use USB_OTG_FS.
2019-08-30T15:06:12 < hdt551> I want the USB device to start as soon as the board is powered but I can't figure out how to manually start the device without using the VBUS pin.
2019-08-30T15:06:26 < hdt551> I have tried putting a 1K5 resistor on the D+ line but it will not start without VBUS.
2019-08-30T15:10:10 < dongs> so uh just conect 5V to vbus pin?
2019-08-30T15:12:19 < hdt551> As I understand it, the micro should not see 5V on vbus until after it is powered up.
2019-08-30T15:12:28 < dongs> ?
2019-08-30T15:12:32 < hdt551> I think it will damage the chip if you do that.
2019-08-30T15:13:15 < dongs> https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00296349.pdf section 2.6
2019-08-30T15:13:37 < dongs> mcu is not powered != "running"
2019-08-30T15:13:51 < dongs> you simply have a 3.3V ldo/whatever off vbus and have vbus going to usb 5V
2019-08-30T15:13:53 < dongs> done
2019-08-30T15:14:12 < dongs> but really all you need to do is put a resistor divider there
2019-08-30T15:14:59 < dongs> make it divide vbus to 3.3v and done
2019-08-30T15:15:00 < dongs> bbl
2019-08-30T15:15:20 < hdt551> 3.3V is enough to "enable" VBUS then?
2019-08-30T15:15:29 < jpa-> sure, it is just an io pin
2019-08-30T15:15:55 < hdt551> I see, I thought it needed to see something closer to 5V.
2019-08-30T15:16:51 < jpa-> not sure if vbus sensing is ever *really* needed, for me it has worked quite ok even if vbus is present long before D+/D- are connected
2019-08-30T15:18:02 < hdt551> On my setup, the USB subsystem seems to not start without it.  With the 1K5 resistor, I get a device not recognized error from a pc.
2019-08-30T15:24:42 < hdt551> I will try connecting VBUS to the 3.3V rail.
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2019-08-30T15:30:45 < hdt551> Thank you for your help.
2019-08-30T15:40:50 < jpa-> hdt551: well you need to set the bit in USB registers to disable vbus sensing and force device mode active
2019-08-30T15:41:14 < jpa-> but vbus sensing is the standard method and probably more robust
2019-08-30T15:41:46 < dongs> yeah just tie it 3.3V power or put a divider from 5V into it
2019-08-30T15:41:59 < dongs> but your shit is bus powered so actually just making it 3V from regulator output makes sense
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2019-08-30T15:42:47 < dongs> you only need real vbus if tyoure self powereed and running without usb connected and then someone plugs stuff in
2019-08-30T15:44:03 < qyx> whats https://littlevgl.com/
2019-08-30T15:44:06 < qyx> a ugfx renamed?
2019-08-30T15:44:12 < qyx> or something else, new and cool?
2019-08-30T15:44:31 < dongs> way cooler than uguuufx
2019-08-30T15:44:41 < dongs> im gonna use that in my next proj
2019-08-30T15:44:45 < dongs> with this chink IPS panel
2019-08-30T15:46:51 < dongs> what no
2019-08-30T15:48:50 < jpa-> dongs: but even when self powered, it doesn't seem one *really* needs vbus sensing, because STM32 can just detect the USB reset and start talking - it at least works in practice for me
2019-08-30T15:52:19 < karlp> if you have the pullup permanently wired in place, you'd better be damn sure you do things right away at power up though.
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2019-08-30T16:10:21 < qyx> I am curious if it is possible to sense touches using TSC with pads/traces on a PCB *under* an e-paper display
2019-08-30T16:10:40 < dongs> only if you somehow manage to transmit the touch throug hteh glass
2019-08-30T16:10:47 < dongs> you'll need some of that conductive rubbe shit
2019-08-30T16:10:52 < qyx> wat
2019-08-30T16:11:21 < dongs> clear conductive stuff
2019-08-30T16:11:27 < dongs> put a layer between epaper and pcb
2019-08-30T16:11:30 < qyx> you can detect proximity and the question is if 1mm is close enough
2019-08-30T16:11:30 < dongs> press firmly
2019-08-30T16:11:37 < dongs> no
2019-08-30T16:11:48 < dongs> you can have front panel like 1cm away from pads
2019-08-30T16:11:54 < dongs> if you use proper material between them
2019-08-30T16:12:05 < dongs> i've made a device with like 4mm separateion between pcb and buttons
2019-08-30T16:12:16 < dongs> clear silicone separator between the buttons/front glass
2019-08-30T16:12:32 < qyx> and you were able to touch the buttons
2019-08-30T16:12:37 < dongs> yes?
2019-08-30T16:12:42 < qyx> I suppose so
2019-08-30T16:12:52 < qyx> but ok, this is a bit different
2019-08-30T16:12:54 < dongs> front panel was like 0.5mm or so glass
2019-08-30T16:13:02 < qyx> the display itself has conductive parts on its glass
2019-08-30T16:13:09 < dongs> right
2019-08-30T16:13:17 < dongs> you donno until you try
2019-08-30T16:13:25 < qyx> yeah I think so
2019-08-30T16:15:03 < dongs> i have a largeish epaper screen...
2019-08-30T16:15:24 < dongs> i donno if i have any of that rubber shit leftover here, if I did i could try it
2019-08-30T16:15:30 < dongs> (without powering up e-paper tho)
2019-08-30T16:15:30 < qyx> I don't want yours if you are asking
2019-08-30T16:15:49 < dongs> no, i mean to test the shit if it works with that conductive layer thats on epaper
2019-08-30T16:16:30 < qyx> the conductive shit is redudant here, because I want the epaper to be glued directly on the pcb
2019-08-30T16:17:09 < qyx> I don't want to have any separation between them at all
2019-08-30T16:17:23 < dongs> then you better hope you can glue it without any gaps in wahtever glue layer
2019-08-30T16:17:34 < dongs> cuz air = worst touchsense conductor
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2019-08-30T16:21:04 < salcedo> there is also a humidity range
2019-08-30T16:22:59 < salcedo> if you have any gaps in the glue and the shit perspires, u fukt
2019-08-30T16:23:51 < hdt551> jpa: changing USB registers is probably beyond me (I am using the HAL).
2019-08-30T16:25:24 < hdt551> And I couldn't find a command which will enable the USB device manually if you have VBUS sensing turned off.
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2019-08-30T16:39:49 < day> Haohmaru: but dongs has grown soft
2019-08-30T16:48:41 < Steffanx> It's more your dialect Haohmaru  
2019-08-30T16:48:51 < Steffanx> Sorry.
2019-08-30T16:53:03 < qyx> y u so cruel Steffanx 
2019-08-30T16:56:55 < Steffanx> I haz no rekretz 
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2019-08-30T17:35:09 < karlp> heh, segger now supports stlink and openocd: https://www.eenewsembedded.com/news/3rd-party-GDB-debug-probes-now-supported-embedded-studio?news_id=120902
2019-08-30T17:49:43 < the_spacebyte> when programming the flash on AXIM interface which address should I use? AXIM or ITCM?
2019-08-30T18:01:25 -!- Guest44861 is now known as aandrew
2019-08-30T18:05:15 < dongs> https://twitter.com/cr1901/status/1167233051526684678?s=19
2019-08-30T18:05:35 < karlp> the_spacebyte: hahahahah
2019-08-30T18:05:44 < karlp> you're doing IAP right?
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2019-08-30T18:22:51 < jpa-> qyx: considering the bottom side of epaper display is usually metal traces, i doubt it
2019-08-30T18:23:17 < qyx> jpa-: 1 can see the pigment from the bottom
2019-08-30T18:23:38 < jpa-> but can't you see metal traces also? like very dense mesh
2019-08-30T18:23:43 < qyx> maybe some metal deposit or what, but it is semitransparent
2019-08-30T18:24:10 < jpa-> i've been wondering if one could sense changes in VCOM depending on which lines are activated & where finger is
2019-08-30T18:25:13 < qyx> mhm I can see the mesh
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2019-08-30T18:29:41 -!- c10ud_ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2019-08-30T18:30:28 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/eink_backside.jpg  mine looks like this, i guess some parts are metal wires and others are thin film transistors
2019-08-30T18:37:24 < the_spacebyte> karlp Yeah I'm trying a couple of things with IAP
2019-08-30T18:40:27 < qyx> jpa-: this is mine from the back https://i.imgur.com/RMuGrhD.jpg
2019-08-30T18:41:07 < qyx> the rectangle around test1 is ghosted
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2019-08-30T20:09:46 < grummund> anyone here seen a quote for IAR EWARM ?
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2019-08-30T20:27:09 < grummund> yikes, around $5000 per seat ...
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2019-08-30T21:07:51 < Thorn> 'we don't like the color of the robot's ears' right now over the ISS comms
2019-08-30T21:08:34 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2019-08-30T21:09:33 < salcedo> "the robot resembles patriarchy. de-fund ISS."
2019-08-30T21:16:22 < qyx> jpa-: no worky
2019-08-30T21:27:22 < Cracki> >robot's ears
2019-08-30T21:27:23 < Cracki> WAT
2019-08-30T21:27:44 < Thorn> apparently they illuminate red when the battery is discharged
2019-08-30T21:27:53 < Thorn> now they replaced the battery and can't turn it back on
2019-08-30T21:28:43 < Cracki> its ded jim
2019-08-30T21:29:06 < Cracki> glowing ears is kinda silly. they should have made the eyes glow
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2019-08-30T21:35:56 < englishman> maybe they forgot the Rd pulldown resistors and didn't respect the dead battery condition
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2019-08-30T22:05:26 < kakimir> cannot access bios...
2019-08-30T22:06:35 < mawk> what are you doing kakimir ?
2019-08-30T22:06:39 < mawk> there's a password ?
2019-08-30T22:06:43 < mawk> you lost the hotkey ?
2019-08-30T22:06:54 < kakimir> I added another sata adapter card
2019-08-30T22:07:04 < kakimir> connected drive to be booted from to that
2019-08-30T22:10:53 < kakimir> sata card interrupts boot process
2019-08-30T22:11:02 < kakimir> pull the drive and bios is accessable
2019-08-30T22:12:12 < Cracki> interrupt how?
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2019-08-30T22:12:27 < Cracki> dead and mute? or wanting you to fix a problem and press a key?
2019-08-30T22:12:39 < kakimir> bios first runs rom extensions of cards
2019-08-30T22:12:43 < Cracki> sure
2019-08-30T22:12:48 < kakimir> if some of the cards boots to os
2019-08-30T22:13:01 < kakimir> it doesn't prompt for bios setup
2019-08-30T22:13:27 < Cracki> what I am asking is what exactly does the card do, just lock evertything up or talk and ask for attention?
2019-08-30T22:13:40 < Cracki> "interrupts boot process" can mean a lot of things
2019-08-30T22:22:20 < Steffanx> Your china card doesnt work kakimir?
2019-08-30T22:25:15 < kakimir> it's perfect
2019-08-30T22:25:58 < kakimir> by adding my jmicron small pci sata card I got all my mobo satas free as it's booted from jmicron card
2019-08-30T22:26:23 < kakimir> now I have 4/8 of raid card satas used
2019-08-30T22:26:32 < kakimir> and 4 mobo satas left too
2019-08-30T22:26:42 < kakimir> and one pata and one esatap
2019-08-30T22:27:09 < kakimir> should I go nut's and throw 500GB pata disk there?
2019-08-30T22:27:12 < kakimir> nuts*
2019-08-30T22:27:20 < Steffanx> pata.
2019-08-30T22:27:25 < Steffanx> dont even mention it :P
2019-08-30T22:27:27 < mawk> potato
2019-08-30T22:27:50 < kakimir> Steffanx: get one of those cards boi
2019-08-30T22:29:18 < Steffanx> what lsi 9something?
2019-08-30T22:29:43 < kakimir> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-LSI-6Gbps-SAS-HBA-LSI-9200-8i-9211-8I-IT-Mode-ZFS-FreeNAS-unRAID/153224272841
2019-08-30T22:30:16 < Steffanx> yes those
2019-08-30T22:30:41 < Steffanx> i dont think i have much pcie space left
2019-08-30T22:30:50 < kakimir> throw useless shit out
2019-08-30T22:31:08 < kakimir> there is nothing more important than maximum number of disks
2019-08-30T22:31:26 < kakimir> unless you find a card with more than 8 satas
2019-08-30T22:31:54 < Steffanx> 10G is more important.
2019-08-30T22:32:00 < Steffanx> and there is somethjing else.. i dont remember what :P
2019-08-30T22:32:29 < kakimir> okay
2019-08-30T22:32:34 < kakimir> 10G is important yes
2019-08-30T22:33:27 < Steffanx> and a fan to cool it :P
2019-08-30T22:34:41 < kakimir> no pci required for that
2019-08-30T22:35:35 < kakimir> my mobo has ISA host adapter
2019-08-30T22:35:38 < kakimir> or something
2019-08-30T22:35:50 < kakimir> no socket but it's there
2019-08-30T22:35:55 < kakimir> maybe some pin row
2019-08-30T22:38:36 < Steffanx> i dont feel like buying something like that from chinaland
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2019-08-30T22:42:42 < kakimir> I should reflash
2019-08-30T22:43:20 < kakimir> I mean that card is a computer itself
2019-08-30T22:43:33 < kakimir> ppc processors and shiet
2019-08-30T22:44:25 < Steffanx> up goes kakimir's energy bill
2019-08-30T22:48:30 < kakimir> I mean that box is cold
2019-08-30T22:49:11 < kakimir> and silent
2019-08-30T22:49:29 < kakimir> it was pro move to put that pentium D cooler in there
2019-08-30T22:49:58 < kakimir> mobo had holes for that old crap too
2019-08-30T22:52:09 < kakimir> can I copy files locally in that NAS?
2019-08-30T22:52:32 < kakimir> from esatap with maybe ext4 partition to pool dataset?
2019-08-30T22:53:13 < Steffanx> sure. use tha commandline
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2019-08-30T22:57:41 < Steffanx> wb
2019-08-30T22:58:55 < kakimir> just mv /mnt/mahcrappyexternal/bigfile /mnt/mahpooll ?
2019-08-30T22:59:18 < Steffanx> something like that should work
2019-08-30T22:59:20 < kakimir> I see I cannot login to web interface with my "normal user"
2019-08-30T23:01:00 < Steffanx> root is all you need rtight
2019-08-30T23:07:08 < kakimir> probs
2019-08-30T23:07:46 < Thorn> https://twitter.com/neuroecology/status/1167449017401401344
2019-08-30T23:14:02 < Cracki> I'd bet those "star scientists" published more before their death than those runnerups make up for after it
2019-08-30T23:14:45 < Cracki> and it's an increase relative to however little those published before
2019-08-30T23:16:23 < Steffanx> haha, i see Cracki got bitten by the stm32 optimism.
2019-08-30T23:25:52 < kakimir> Steffanx: what is difference of adaX and daX?
2019-08-30T23:30:10 < kakimir> ad = ide disk
2019-08-30T23:30:38 < kakimir> da = scsi disk
2019-08-30T23:32:53 < kakimir> gpart show says every single drive I have installed has 2GB freebsd-swap partition
2019-08-30T23:32:56 < Steffanx> Yw
2019-08-30T23:33:04 < kakimir> and boot drive doesnt!
2019-08-30T23:33:17 < kakimir> all my gigs!
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--- Day changed Sat Aug 31 2019
2019-08-31T00:11:00 < mawk> I intentionally left out system administration from my linkedin page
2019-08-31T00:11:07 < mawk> even though that's like the field where I know the most
2019-08-31T00:11:15 < mawk> I'd rather be unemployed than do this everyday
2019-08-31T00:12:05 < machinehum> How do I get the IPSR reg through gdb
2019-08-31T00:12:12 < mawk> using its address ?
2019-08-31T00:12:22 < mawk> it's like any other memory location no ?
2019-08-31T00:13:54 < machinehum> Which pdf shows the address?
2019-08-31T00:14:00 < machinehum> Programming manual does not
2019-08-31T00:14:24 < mawk> for which chip ?
2019-08-31T00:14:33 < mawk> RM would show
2019-08-31T00:14:38 < machinehum> stm32l4r7
2019-08-31T00:15:47 < mawk> https://www.st.com/resource/en/reference_manual/dm00310109.pdf
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2019-08-31T00:16:29 < mawk> dunno what IPSR is tho
2019-08-31T00:16:30 < karlp> (source ~/blah/zypsnips/armv7m-vecstate-zippe.gdb && vecstate)
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2019-08-31T00:16:38 < karlp> it will do it all for you and decode it nicely...
2019-08-31T00:16:53 < mawk> ah right
2019-08-31T00:16:58 < mawk> I was wondering if someone had done this already
2019-08-31T00:17:02 < mawk> cool
2019-08-31T00:17:05 < karlp> years ago :)
2019-08-31T00:18:00 < mawk> ah but it's a arm register machinehum !
2019-08-31T00:18:04 < mawk> not a stm32 register
2019-08-31T00:18:05 < mawk> my bad
2019-08-31T00:18:53 < mawk> try to display register PSR if you can't do IPSR
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2019-08-31T00:42:32 < machinehum> ahhh
2019-08-31T00:42:41 < machinehum> So it doesn't have an address?
2019-08-31T00:42:51 < machinehum> I got it by just info reg
2019-08-31T00:49:03 < karlp> qyx: better not copy that preliminary pcie layout I shared the other day :) I split usb across the key gap, as well as one of the ethernet pairs.
2019-08-31T01:01:43 < mawk> yes it's a fundamental ARM register machinehum 
2019-08-31T01:01:50 < mawk> not a stm32 memory-mapped register 
2019-08-31T01:09:20 < machinehum> fundamental
2019-08-31T01:09:22 < machinehum> hmm
2019-08-31T01:09:46 < machinehum> you say
2019-08-31T01:16:44 < mawk> yes machinehum 
2019-08-31T01:16:55 < mawk> like, part of the processor itself
2019-08-31T01:26:00 < Cracki> like program counter and stack pointer
2019-08-31T01:26:36 < kakimir> copying seems to be successful
2019-08-31T01:30:49 < kakimir> cp is quite vulgar process.. I wonder if there is more fancy approach to copying files
2019-08-31T01:33:40 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVWEb-At8yc musics
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2019-08-31T01:40:17 < kakimir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s43yLMgXXOU more
2019-08-31T01:40:57 < kakimir> I see gsx-r 750 2004 for 2keur
2019-08-31T01:41:09 < kakimir> nobody is bying or selling anything
2019-08-31T01:41:48 < kakimir> it has new everything
2019-08-31T01:43:27 < kakimir> owner has lost his driving licence with his second bike
2019-08-31T01:43:58 < kakimir> it has been moderatelly sodomized but it's the way I like it
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2019-08-31T01:53:27 < karlp> kakimir: rsync -a --info=progress2 src dst....
2019-08-31T01:53:48 < karlp> (progress2 so you can see progress of the whole transfer instead of just each file)
2019-08-31T01:53:59  * karlp discovers the align menu in kicad
2019-08-31T01:55:06 < kakimir> if I want to verify my cp copied files.. should I use md5sum?
2019-08-31T01:55:14 < kakimir> file size 160GB
2019-08-31T01:55:33 < kakimir> :o
2019-08-31T01:56:12 < karlp> ... use rsync :)
2019-08-31T01:56:19 < karlp> but yeah, md5 is "good enough" for that.
2019-08-31T01:56:26 < karlp> sha256sum is the "new" way, but whatever.
2019-08-31T01:56:50  * karlp thinks he has a problem with decayed mp3s on his drives, that have been copied, with 100% correct decayed bits :|
2019-08-31T01:57:46 < kakimir> I have source file and destination file in same system
2019-08-31T01:58:02 < kakimir> can I compare them and get match or no match output
2019-08-31T02:00:19 < kakimir> diff 8]
2019-08-31T02:00:30 < kakimir> with hopes that files do match
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2019-08-31T02:02:59 < karlp> ... rsync.
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2019-08-31T02:03:19 < karlp> rsync doesn't give a shit about where the files are, local/remote, it works the same way
2019-08-31T02:03:31 < kakimir> hey
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2019-08-31T02:03:40 < kakimir> I can rsync now as cp is complete?
2019-08-31T02:04:02 < kakimir> babbys first rsync
2019-08-31T02:04:17 < karlp> sure, it will just check them all and say, "did it fast...." sort of thing
2019-08-31T02:04:21 < karlp> it ... syncs.
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2019-08-31T02:04:30 < karlp> you did "cp -a oldshit newshit"
2019-08-31T02:04:41 < karlp> now just do rsync -a oldshit newshit again and it will verify and make sure
2019-08-31T02:04:53 < karlp> you can tell it a few options on how hard it should be verifying 
2019-08-31T02:04:56 < karlp> man rsync
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2019-08-31T02:06:56 < fenugrec> then you start adding flags for permissions and timestamps and xattrs then you think there the f has the last hour disappeared
2019-08-31T02:07:05 < fenugrec> *where
2019-08-31T02:07:21 < karlp> well, better than staring at cp doing nothing :)
2019-08-31T02:07:55 < karlp> so.. snapeda kicad footprints don't import as well I'd like.
2019-08-31T02:08:08 < karlp> layers are all wron
2019-08-31T02:08:13 < fenugrec> yea yeah, hehe. I never could get exactly what I needed from rsync, been using Unison instead
2019-08-31T02:08:32 < karlp> what sort of particular needs weren't meant with rsync -a?
2019-08-31T02:09:11 < karlp> my "backup.sh" is  rsync -avh --delete-delay
2019-08-31T02:09:42 < karlp> I should cron it up, I run it "somewhat regularly"
2019-08-31T02:09:47 < fenugrec> exclude filters, but mostly the fact that I'm syncing 2 machines to/from one backup, because I'm a moron
2019-08-31T02:10:23 < karlp> hahah
2019-08-31T02:13:50 < kakimir> can I use wildcard with rsync src?
2019-08-31T02:13:58 < kakimir> identically to cp?
2019-08-31T02:14:21 < kakimir> I just took files with certain prefix
2019-08-31T02:18:02 < kakimir> seems to be the case
2019-08-31T02:20:13 < mawk> of course
2019-08-31T02:20:18 < mawk> that depends on where you put the wildcard tho
2019-08-31T02:20:34 < mawk> if you put without quotes then it's a shell wildcard, essentially just listing all the src on the commandline for rsync
2019-08-31T02:20:40 < mawk> with quotes it's up to rsync to interpret it
2019-08-31T02:22:14 < kakimir> well this rsync ain't that verbose neather
2019-08-31T02:22:31 < kakimir> oh I forgot that process thing
2019-08-31T02:24:56 < mawk> you can make it verbose to verify
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2019-08-31T02:25:10 < mawk> -v probably
2019-08-31T02:27:07 < kakimir> I did
2019-08-31T02:27:14 < kakimir> it shows the filename it's processing
2019-08-31T02:27:53 < mawk> good
2019-08-31T02:28:29 < mawk> if it's already copied it won't copy again ofc, depending on the settings
2019-08-31T02:29:01 < kakimir> just -v
2019-08-31T02:32:24 < mawk> depending on what you're copying and everything you can greatly speed up copy with the right settings
2019-08-31T02:32:46 < mawk> you can copy files sparsely to skip blocks of zeroes, you can do incremental copies by checking checksum of start of file or filte attributes, etc
2019-08-31T02:34:47 < karlp> you can ...~mostly use cp arguments drop in with rsync, it just "works better"
2019-08-31T02:35:36 < kakimir> rsync -v prefix* /mnt/destinationdataset
2019-08-31T02:35:56 < kakimir> there is some weird trailing slash things with rsync
2019-08-31T02:36:19 < kakimir> did I fail?
2019-08-31T02:37:24 < karlp> it's actually the same as with cp, sometimes it puts it down a layer.
2019-08-31T02:37:41 < karlp> but yeah, "-avn" first, then drop the n when it's doign what you want.
2019-08-31T02:54:53 < grummund> -av --inplace are my stock rsync options
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2019-08-31T03:48:29 < Laurenceb_> wew my brothers waifu is pragnut
2019-08-31T03:48:37 < Laurenceb_> uncle Laurenceb soon
2019-08-31T03:48:48 < Laurenceb_> tiem to shake the babby 4 realz
2019-08-31T03:49:19 < Laurenceb_> we will have (((another member of the tribe)))
2019-08-31T03:53:48 < Cracki> dual citizen!
2019-08-31T03:55:47 < kakimir> uncle lurencer
2019-08-31T03:56:45 < Laurenceb_> Cracki: prob triple 
2019-08-31T03:56:54 < Laurenceb_> Uk, Israel, USA
2019-08-31T03:57:13 < Cracki> who contributs to the non-uk genetics?
2019-08-31T03:58:06 < Laurenceb_> Israeli mum and Lebanese murican dad
2019-08-31T03:59:39 < Cracki> they're in luck then .I heard that israeli dad isn't good enough for the passport. israeli mum gets you in every time.
2019-08-31T04:00:20 < mawk> you're lebanese murican Laurenceb_ ?
2019-08-31T04:00:21 < Cracki> why isn't your syrian ancestry part of those? different parent?
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2019-08-31T09:56:37 < Thorn> React is WHITE SUPREMACY https://www.businessinsider.com/reactgate-react-facebook-code-of-conduct-twitter-2019-8
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2019-08-31T10:08:32 < ThatDamnRanga> I got a matter that's doin my head in... And I'm wondering if I'm barking up the wrong tree... Am I not able to change GPIO PUPDR bits for pins that have been set to AF mode?
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2019-08-31T10:14:51 < Thorn> you should be able to, I've done that with SPI at least
2019-08-31T10:15:05 < ThatDamnRanga> Hmm... Because I'm not having much luck
2019-08-31T10:15:44 < ThatDamnRanga> GPIOA->OTYPER |= (1 << 8); GPIOA->PUPDR |= (1 << 16);[[GPIOA_PUPDR: 0x64000050]] <-- Immediately afterward 
2019-08-31T10:16:39 < ThatDamnRanga> For what it's worth the aforementioned OTYPER isn't changing either
2019-08-31T10:16:54 < ThatDamnRanga> Using the HAL's pin_mode() isn't doing jack either
2019-08-31T10:18:29 < Thorn> is the port clocked?
2019-08-31T10:19:07 < ThatDamnRanga> locked? nope. LCKR is all zeros
2019-08-31T10:22:26 < ThatDamnRanga> Effectively the problem I'm trying to solve is I2C3 turning on pull-ups. The EEPROM attached is running on 3.3v so no need to worry about burn-down due to running the pull-up on a 5V-tolerant port
2019-08-31T10:23:20 < Thorn> clocked. is the clock enabled
2019-08-31T10:23:46 < Thorn> builtin pullups are too weak for i2c
2019-08-31T10:24:23 < ThatDamnRanga> Hmm. I'd imagine so, (I'm running mbed, please don't murder me too hard). Which register would I look into for that?
2019-08-31T10:24:46 < ThatDamnRanga> Oh... That, I did not expect. Even for a single device?
2019-08-31T10:25:05 < ThatDamnRanga> (I'm new to the platform... Moving over from AVRs, and no I don't mean Arduino)
2019-08-31T10:34:40 < Thorn> peripheral clock enable registers in rcc
2019-08-31T10:36:01 < Thorn> any driver library should have functions to deal with them
2019-08-31T10:36:46 < ThatDamnRanga> I've learned not to assume :P
2019-08-31T10:43:03 < ThatDamnRanga> Yep, GPIOs in question, and I2C3 are all clocked
2019-08-31T10:44:15 < ThatDamnRanga> .. Don't get me started on the limited debug support in mBed Studio... I have to print my registers like a peasant.
2019-08-31T11:01:54 < ThatDamnRanga> I've tried a million different ways of setting them and I'm stumped
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2019-08-31T11:08:13 < ThatDamnRanga> Giving up worked... Shrug
2019-08-31T11:08:50 < ThatDamnRanga> Still can't read the EEPROM, but hey, at least my pins are reading the right voltage now xD
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2019-08-31T13:46:21 < nuxil> morning.
2019-08-31T13:47:08 < nuxil> i been playing with my nucleo for a week now and its been fun :)
2019-08-31T13:47:25 < nuxil> going from avr8bit to stm32 was a huge step
2019-08-31T13:48:02 < Thorn> I hope it's not f7 or h7
2019-08-31T13:48:44 < nuxil> it M4 F446
2019-08-31T13:49:41 < srk> Thorn: what's wrong with f7/h7? 
2019-08-31T13:49:50 < nuxil> was about to ask the same.
2019-08-31T13:49:56 < Thorn> it's too much for a beginner
2019-08-31T13:50:22 < nuxil> why? no need to use it all at once :p 
2019-08-31T13:50:31 < Thorn> f446 should be much easier
2019-08-31T13:50:33 < srk> f7 is pretty cool, h7 is too much for most embedded stuff as it's designed for running Linux
2019-08-31T13:50:38 < srk> g4!
2019-08-31T13:51:09 < Thorn> the only stm32 designed for linux is stm32mp1 and that's not a microcontroller at all
2019-08-31T13:51:09 < srk> f4 & f7 are pretty compatible
2019-08-31T13:51:17 < srk> ah, mp1, right!
2019-08-31T13:51:17 < ThatDamnRanga> nuxil, that's amusing. I just did the exact same jump. What made you choose 446?
2019-08-31T13:51:46 < Thorn> so stm32mp1 is stm32 only in the name
2019-08-31T13:51:50 < nuxil> i wanted to play with dac.
2019-08-31T13:51:57 < nuxil> and later on some dps stuff
2019-08-31T13:52:01 < ThatDamnRanga> I needed the dual CANBus
2019-08-31T13:52:03 < nuxil> *dsp
2019-08-31T13:52:19 < srk> ThatDamnRanga: what are you doing with dual CANs?
2019-08-31T13:53:10 < ThatDamnRanga> srk, that... for the moment is under wraps... But just imagine if you spoke to me in Mandarin, and despite having no idea what any of it meant, it came through to me as perfect English
2019-08-31T13:53:16 < ThatDamnRanga> And vice versa
2019-08-31T13:53:33 < ThatDamnRanga> If there's one thing I miss from the AVR though, it's on-chip EEPROM
2019-08-31T13:53:54 < nuxil> ThatDamnRanga, also.. it has a floting point uint. something i wanted on small avr's instead of cheap and dirty software solutions.
2019-08-31T13:54:35 < ThatDamnRanga> I jumped from AVRs to the SAMC range initially... but found both documentation and support horrendously lacking
2019-08-31T13:54:42 < nuxil> i miss the simplicity of avr :p 
2019-08-31T13:54:46 < srk> ThatDamnRanga: I'
2019-08-31T13:55:02 < srk> I'm not a native speaker :) just learned a new idiom, thanks! :)
2019-08-31T13:55:33 < ThatDamnRanga> Haha, I apologise.. and yet somehow that's incredibly unironic
2019-08-31T13:56:03 < nuxil> lol
2019-08-31T13:57:04 < ThatDamnRanga> Actually, there is one thing I miss more than the on-chip eeprom... Complete toolsets -_-
2019-08-31T13:57:27 < srk> np ;)
2019-08-31T13:57:39 < srk> there are some L4s with on-chip eeproms
2019-08-31T13:57:48 < nuxil> ThatDamnRanga, whart do you mean ?
2019-08-31T13:58:01 < Thorn> L series have eeprom, including L0
2019-08-31T13:58:18 < srk> *L1s
2019-08-31T13:58:32 < srk> my db is outdated :|
2019-08-31T13:58:47 < ThatDamnRanga> *checks this out*
2019-08-31T13:58:55 < nuxil> by -> Complete toolset ?
2019-08-31T13:59:20 < ThatDamnRanga> if I can get my part-count down, and eliminate the need for encryption of stored data I'll be very happy
2019-08-31T14:00:57 < ThatDamnRanga> nuxil, just... there's a /lot/ of variation between the various ways of making your code go in stm land. In AVR land there's two. Studio 7 or avr-gcc
2019-08-31T14:01:02 < ThatDamnRanga> (or arduino.........)
2019-08-31T14:01:20 < nuxil> arduino is just a frontend for gcc
2019-08-31T14:01:28 < Steffanx> atmel studio too.
2019-08-31T14:01:28 < srk> a lot and most of them suck :D
2019-08-31T14:01:30 < nuxil> and that ide is crap :p
2019-08-31T14:01:37 < ThatDamnRanga> Steffanx, 'studio 7'
2019-08-31T14:01:44 < Steffanx> is that something new?
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2019-08-31T14:01:54 < ThatDamnRanga> nuxil, not denying that!
2019-08-31T14:02:10 < ThatDamnRanga> Steffanx, it's the latest version of Atmel Studio, so usually just called 'studio 7'
2019-08-31T14:02:38 < Steffanx> but its still just a front end for avr-gcc (and the stuff for the SAMXXXX ofcourse)
2019-08-31T14:02:40 < Steffanx> :P
2019-08-31T14:02:42 < nuxil> ThatDamnRanga, but you still can setup the gcc toolchain atleat if its a arm cortex one. idk about other chips stm makes. as this is my 1st dev board.
2019-08-31T14:03:01 < kakimir> Steffanx: how do I install shit to freenas? I run pkg update or pkg install coreutils it's all errors about of files and configs not existing
2019-08-31T14:03:10 < ThatDamnRanga> nuxil, you sure can... but weird things happen
2019-08-31T14:03:16 < ThatDamnRanga> kakimir, #freenas?
2019-08-31T14:03:20 < Steffanx> What are you trying to install kakimir?
2019-08-31T14:03:25 < kakimir> coreutils
2019-08-31T14:03:54 < srk> ThatDamnRanga: I'm using haskell to generate C for stm32s :D working on CANOpen bldc servo 
2019-08-31T14:04:17 < Steffanx> Before you continue messing up your base installation. Did you at least read up on jails et all, kakimir?
2019-08-31T14:04:28 < kakimir> I don want jails
2019-08-31T14:04:40 < ThatDamnRanga> According to MCU Selector I'm seeing nothing with any eeprom at all
2019-08-31T14:04:44 < Steffanx> You do kakimir.
2019-08-31T14:05:23 < ThatDamnRanga> srk, interesting. this is an automotive project... The reason why I'm a bit cagey about details is that I'd quite like to use it to fund further automotive projects :P
2019-08-31T14:05:26 -!- irf21k [~irf21k@157.45.13.206] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-31T14:05:46 < ThatDamnRanga> (since my salary will not readily allow)
2019-08-31T14:05:55 -!- irf21k [~irf21k@157.45.13.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2019-08-31T14:05:55 < srk> ThatDamnRanga: at least these https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/aXVnAv8-SyKjPWYJ7VwcRQ
2019-08-31T14:06:39 < ThatDamnRanga> ... they don't show up in mcu selector
2019-08-31T14:07:18 < ThatDamnRanga> and they don't have canbus
2019-08-31T14:08:36 < ThatDamnRanga> Seems CAN and EEPROM are mutually eexclusive
2019-08-31T14:11:21 < Steffanx> EEPROM on STM32 isnt ideal anyway. Like code execution is halted when the eeprom is written. 
2019-08-31T14:11:25 < srk> possibly. looks like only L0s and L1s have EEPROM
2019-08-31T14:11:27 < Steffanx> External eeprom is cheapish anyway.
2019-08-31T14:11:48 < Thorn> pins are expensive
2019-08-31T14:12:04 < ThatDamnRanga> it is. But it adds additional part count, and a need for encrypted storage
2019-08-31T14:12:11 < Steffanx> put everything on the i2c bus Thorn
2019-08-31T14:12:33 < Thorn> "a box appeared saying welcome to ISS treadmill 2, file integrity test failed" right now on space-to-ground
2019-08-31T14:12:54 < ThatDamnRanga> wat?
2019-08-31T14:13:02 < Steffanx> Then you can always go for your own eeprom emulation. ST has appnotes about that
2019-08-31T14:13:26 < srk> https://github.com/pellepl/spiffs
2019-08-31T14:13:43 < ThatDamnRanga> Steffanx, yeah, I'm considering it. The write life of the internal flash isn't great though
2019-08-31T14:13:44 < Thorn> need to look for cheap China eeproms @ lcsc
2019-08-31T14:14:46 < ThatDamnRanga> (and copying the entire page to RAM so I can erase and rewrite is..... suboptimal)
2019-08-31T14:15:59 < Steffanx> Implement something smarther than that...
2019-08-31T14:16:30 < ThatDamnRanga> You overestimate my coding ability. I'm a network engineer :P
2019-08-31T14:17:08 < Steffanx> Hah ok
2019-08-31T14:17:23 -!- Laurenceb_ [~laurence@140.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-31T14:17:31 < Steffanx> https://www.st.com/en/embedded-software/x-cube-eeprom.html never used it though, but ST has it for you.
2019-08-31T14:18:18 < Steffanx> nevermind
2019-08-31T14:18:20 < Steffanx> if fail
2019-08-31T14:18:21 < Steffanx> *i
2019-08-31T14:18:42 < Steffanx> oops, this wasnt meant for here :P
2019-08-31T14:18:49 < Steffanx> now i fail to make sense i bet.
2019-08-31T14:19:10 < ThatDamnRanga> O_O
2019-08-31T14:19:12 < ThatDamnRanga> Yep
2019-08-31T14:21:21 < Steffanx> Anyway, it seems to do your eeprom emulation just file. With wear leveling and stuff.
2019-08-31T14:24:45 < Thorn> Shanghai Belling, BL24CxxA <-- cheap Chinese I2C eeproms
2019-08-31T14:24:46 < Thorn> https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/Shanghai-Belling-BL24C512A-SFRC_C169114.pdf
2019-08-31T14:25:55 -!- sterna [~Adium@h-235-5.A357.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined ##stm32
2019-08-31T14:29:57 < ohsix> http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=0F8CA214ECF1270C1927BE0320241EAC heh this book has a surprise win32 tutorial in the middle that's pretty good
2019-08-31T14:30:05 < ThatDamnRanga> Eh, they're not expensive here anyway
2019-08-31T14:30:23 < Steffanx> so did the avrfreak show up ohsix?
2019-08-31T14:30:25 < ohsix> as a whole it reminds me a lot of an operations research book i got that was so broad and covered literally everything
2019-08-31T14:30:39 < ohsix> Steffanx: i haven't seen him, but also wasn't watching
2019-08-31T14:31:00 < Steffanx> awh
2019-08-31T14:31:01 < ohsix> #electronics is too noisy
2019-08-31T14:32:05 -!- Drzacek [~Drzacek@2001:16b8:1ceb:c900:ac2a:80bf:3775:373] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2019-08-31T14:32:28 < jadew> sup ohsix 
2019-08-31T14:32:42 < Laurenceb_> sheet
2019-08-31T14:32:44 < jadew> I thought you gave up on IRC
2019-08-31T14:32:56 < Laurenceb_> babby is gunna get hurricaned
2019-08-31T14:33:15 < ohsix> not gave up, but didn't have much bandwidth left for it
2019-08-31T14:33:18 < Laurenceb_> weather models are all over the place
2019-08-31T14:33:25 < Steffanx> ReadError_ is the only one who gave up on irc, Laurenceb_
2019-08-31T14:33:40 < jadew> Laurenceb_, I know what job you could have
2019-08-31T14:33:46 < jadew> weatherman
2019-08-31T14:33:51 < kakimir> Steffanx: can I have jail in boot pool?
2019-08-31T14:34:16 < kakimir> I mean I have 120GB there
2019-08-31T14:34:18 < jadew> and you can launch your own balloons and have a little segment on how you do it and the challenges you face, every day, after the news
2019-08-31T14:34:23 < Thorn> there is already an autistic weather guy on youtube
2019-08-31T14:34:28 < Laurenceb_> lel
2019-08-31T14:34:44 < Laurenceb_> MAJOR STORM TO HIT FLORIDA
2019-08-31T14:34:48 < Steffanx> i dont know kakimir. 
2019-08-31T14:35:17 < Laurenceb_> ...somewhere.. or maybe miss it
2019-08-31T14:36:36 < kakimir> https://www.ixsystems.com/community/threads/jail-on-boot-pool.78598/ oh wow.. I have 120GB to store like 2GB of OS
2019-08-31T14:37:43 < Laurenceb_> >Police have launched an awareness campaign - #Get Consent - to warn sex without consent is rape. It is aimed primarily at men.
2019-08-31T14:37:45 < Laurenceb_> my sides
2019-08-31T14:38:29 < ohsix> they're just admitting out loud that there's nothing they will do?
2019-08-31T14:38:36 < Laurenceb_> >when police try to apply radfem talking points irl
2019-08-31T14:39:23 < ohsix> when police have to say something but don't do anything
2019-08-31T14:39:34 < jadew> Laurenceb_, what happens if the men don't give consent?
2019-08-31T14:39:54 < jadew> I mean, do both parties have to ask for consent?
2019-08-31T14:39:55 < Laurenceb_> thats just a surprise
2019-08-31T14:39:57 < jadew> or just the men?
2019-08-31T14:42:23 < jadew> kinda hard to imagine a situation where you wouldn't ask for consent tho
2019-08-31T14:42:33 < jadew> does that happen often (other than rape)?
2019-08-31T14:43:22 < jadew> I usually start with the question
2019-08-31T14:43:29 < jadew> "Wanna fuck?"
2019-08-31T14:43:56 < jadew> if the answer is no, I go back to my room and continue doing nerd stuff
2019-08-31T14:44:43 < jadew> asking for consent equates to the most efficient use of energy
2019-08-31T14:44:54 < jadew> if you don't start with that question, you're wasting your time
2019-08-31T14:45:12 < jadew> might not work that well with strangers tho
2019-08-31T14:48:28 < Laurenceb_> if wonder if the hurricane will shake the babby
2019-08-31T14:49:20 < jadew> speaking of that, what did you get out of that project?
2019-08-31T14:49:25 < jadew> at least some published papers?
2019-08-31T14:50:11 < ThatDamnRanga> Blahahaha... this seems very... offtopic, and also, not everyone is 'talky' during sex, that's as best I can tell, an American thing
2019-08-31T14:50:58 < Laurenceb_> jadew: nope
2019-08-31T14:51:00 < Laurenceb_> nothing
2019-08-31T14:51:05 < jadew> ThatDamnRanga, well, not during sex, but somewhere in there's got to be a "wanna go?"
2019-08-31T14:51:12 < ThatDamnRanga> Not really, no
2019-08-31T14:51:21 < Laurenceb_> I have written a paper, but now the other authors dont want it published
2019-08-31T14:51:26 < jadew> just to make sure you're not wasting your time with useless cuddling and shit
2019-08-31T14:51:33 < Laurenceb_> ThatDamnRanga: "I do not consent"
2019-08-31T14:51:36 < jadew> Laurenceb_, ah, crappy
2019-08-31T14:51:40 < ThatDamnRanga> Consent can be less clear if things sorta 'evolve' from another act. And unfortunately in that situation, most people are gonna just go along with it even if asked 'we good?'
2019-08-31T14:51:58 < ThatDamnRanga> Laurenceb_, unfortunately that often takes more strength of will than many people have in the situation
2019-08-31T14:52:00 < jadew> ThatDamnRanga, that sounds like young people problems
2019-08-31T14:52:05 < Laurenceb_> >trying to apply radfem autism to real life
2019-08-31T14:52:09 < ThatDamnRanga> and no offense, jadew, but you sound like you'd be awful in bed
2019-08-31T14:52:19 < Laurenceb_>  no homo
2019-08-31T14:52:21 < jadew> lol
2019-08-31T14:52:31 < kakimir> ended up tinkering pkg to work Steffanx.. it's only coreutils I want
2019-08-31T14:52:33 < jadew> ThatDamnRanga, what gave it away?
2019-08-31T14:52:46 < ThatDamnRanga> describing it as a transactional activity
2019-08-31T14:52:46 < Laurenceb_> I'm tempted to publish anyway tbh
2019-08-31T14:52:54 < kakimir> and there is no way I add another drive to have a jail to install coreutils in it
2019-08-31T14:52:57 < Laurenceb_> this babbyshake shit is making me rage
2019-08-31T14:53:12 < ThatDamnRanga> My former housemate was like that... he disappointed, and was disappointed by, at least 20 different guys in the time he lived here
2019-08-31T14:53:15 < jadew> ThatDamnRanga, you're probably not married, but I don't have sessions of making out with my wife
2019-08-31T14:53:18 < jadew> we're not 20
2019-08-31T14:53:43 < ThatDamnRanga> jadew, No, I've been single for 6 years. And one couldn't argue I haven't been making a go of it
2019-08-31T14:54:13 < ThatDamnRanga> But even right up til the day I broke up with my ex (long story) there was still passion. 
2019-08-31T14:54:18 < jadew> Laurenceb_, what can they do if you do publish?
2019-08-31T14:54:38 < jadew> ThatDamnRanga, haha
2019-08-31T14:54:44 < jadew> you think you have it all figured out, eh?
2019-08-31T14:54:47 < Laurenceb_> jadew: not a lot to stop me, but I'd have to remove their names and pay for it myself
2019-08-31T14:54:54 < Laurenceb_> which would suck
2019-08-31T14:54:55 < ThatDamnRanga> No, if I had it all figured out I wouldn't be single, probably.
2019-08-31T14:55:02 < jadew> obviously
2019-08-31T14:55:05 < BrainDamage> if they are listed as co-authors, they can ask to retract it
2019-08-31T14:55:13 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2019-08-31T14:55:49 < Laurenceb_> its all my own work, they are only there for career advancement, so I could remove their names and it would still be ok
2019-08-31T14:55:54 < jadew> Laurenceb_, if you're the one who wrote it, are there other legal ties that would pose a problem?
2019-08-31T14:56:05 < jadew> ah, do it
2019-08-31T14:56:09 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2019-08-31T14:56:25 < Laurenceb_> maybe I should just work on a paper with nasaspaceflight guys
2019-08-31T14:56:27 < jadew> what does it cost to publish it anyway?
2019-08-31T14:56:35 < Laurenceb_> about $2k
2019-08-31T14:56:36 < BrainDamage> depends on the journal
2019-08-31T14:56:39 < BrainDamage> up to 4k
2019-08-31T14:56:48 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2019-08-31T14:57:04 < jadew> are there no free, peer reviewed ones?
2019-08-31T14:57:26 < Laurenceb_> not sure tbh, but you want something that matches the subject matter
2019-08-31T14:57:28 < BrainDamage> there's free things, like arxiv, but it's just moderated, not properly peer reviewed
2019-08-31T14:57:34 < Laurenceb_> so its not like you have a huge choice
2019-08-31T14:57:59 < Laurenceb_> I have two published papers but I've written 4
2019-08-31T14:58:28 < Laurenceb_> 1 was abandoned because it was too tricky to get the coauthors to agree on anything
2019-08-31T14:58:48 < Laurenceb_> looks like this babbyshake thing will suffer the same fate
2019-08-31T14:59:30 < Thorn> The International Journal of Babby Shakings and Anal horse Probings
2019-08-31T14:59:42 < Laurenceb_> they want me to delete 95% of it and make it about data synchronisation from usb sensors
2019-08-31T14:59:56 < Laurenceb_> which is part of usb spec and therefore _not a paper_
2019-08-31T15:00:28 < BrainDamage> if they insist so much on such large rewrite they can always publish separately
2019-08-31T15:00:36 < BrainDamage> and see how much success they get
2019-08-31T15:00:53 < Laurenceb_> atm it is very general and discusses ways to make usb plug-n-play sensor networks
2019-08-31T15:00:55 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2019-08-31T15:01:25 < Laurenceb_> the original topic was their idea anyway, it was discussed last year and I was sceptical then
2019-08-31T15:01:38 < Laurenceb_> but what I've managed to write isnt so bad right now
2019-08-31T15:02:13 < jadew> Laurenceb_, why not publish it in the free ones?
2019-08-31T15:02:21 < Laurenceb_>  "how you can easily make sensing kits thats much better than the national instruments crap everyone is using"
2019-08-31T15:02:36 < Laurenceb_> is the basic idea
2019-08-31T15:02:39 < BrainDamage> generally journals ask you for exclusive
2019-08-31T15:02:52 < BrainDamage> so if you publish on a crappy one, you exclude yourself from the better
2019-08-31T15:02:53 < Laurenceb_> jadew: hard to find something thats free and suitable for this topic
2019-08-31T15:02:56 < Thorn> sounds like a topic for hackaday.com
2019-08-31T15:03:09 < Laurenceb_> heh thats semi "peer reviewed"
2019-08-31T15:03:12 < ThatDamnRanga> I remember once encountering a turbine dynamometer
2019-08-31T15:03:16 < BrainDamage> granted, it's still better than not publishing at all
2019-08-31T15:03:17 < jadew> BrainDamage, wasn't aware of that
2019-08-31T15:03:19 < ThatDamnRanga> All of the sensors were connected via USB
2019-08-31T15:03:21 < ThatDamnRanga> long usb leads
2019-08-31T15:03:28 < ThatDamnRanga> like 10m plus powered extensions
2019-08-31T15:03:30 < Laurenceb_> Hackkitten is reviewer
2019-08-31T15:03:35 < jadew> but yeah, I figured that if he publishes he can still use it as street cred
2019-08-31T15:03:43 < ThatDamnRanga> half the time it'd overload the bus in the computer and it outright wouldn't power on
2019-08-31T15:03:48 < Laurenceb_> ThatDamnRanga: heh thats the issue with this babbyshake shit
2019-08-31T15:03:55 < ThatDamnRanga> it was the 'national instruments' crap that saved the project
2019-08-31T15:03:57 < jadew> can muggles publish?
2019-08-31T15:04:14 < Laurenceb_> in theory anyone can
2019-08-31T15:04:22 < jadew> but it doesn't help them, isn't it?
2019-08-31T15:04:38 < jadew> it's only useful in the academic world, no?
2019-08-31T15:04:42 < Laurenceb_> ThatDamnRanga: what National Instruments hardware?
2019-08-31T15:04:50 < Laurenceb_> jadew: its something to put your name ot
2019-08-31T15:04:52 < Laurenceb_> *to
2019-08-31T15:04:57 < ThatDamnRanga> 'isn't it'... Afrikaner?
2019-08-31T15:05:11 < BrainDamage> jadew: it helps, I plan to publish an article on my heart shit
2019-08-31T15:05:15 < ThatDamnRanga> Laurenceb_, I can't recall... I was like 18 at the time...
2019-08-31T15:05:28 < BrainDamage> it's useful to have a third party confirmation that your stuff is sound
2019-08-31T15:05:29 < Laurenceb_> ok
2019-08-31T15:05:34 < ThatDamnRanga> (first time I ever got credit for saving a company's ass, not the last)
2019-08-31T15:06:11 < Laurenceb_> a publication would kind of make up for wasting my time on babbyshake (along with getting paid)
2019-08-31T15:06:48 < BrainDamage> it's possible to get third party review, but that's kind of disputable because not everyone will accept it, etc
2019-08-31T15:07:11 < jadew> BrainDamage, will you let us know when you publish?
2019-08-31T15:07:14 < BrainDamage> while an article is supposed to be reviewed by quality people who have no conflict of interest
2019-08-31T15:07:27 < BrainDamage> ( emphasis on supposed )
2019-08-31T15:07:36 < BrainDamage> ofc not
2019-08-31T15:08:05 < jadew> keeping your secret identity a secret? :)
2019-08-31T15:08:47 < jadew> I think I read some of Laurence's stuff
2019-08-31T15:08:51 < jadew> but I don't remember what it was about
2019-08-31T15:09:45 < ThatDamnRanga> That's not promising
2019-08-31T15:10:06 < jadew> BrainDamage, you work in the private sector, right?
2019-08-31T15:10:26 < BrainDamage> yes, I have my own company
2019-08-31T15:10:30 < jadew> ah, neat
2019-08-31T15:10:53 < jadew> so... why publish? isn't that the same as giving away important info?
2019-08-31T15:11:07 < jadew> or you think it helps bring in customers?
2019-08-31T15:11:14 < BrainDamage> once you have a patent, the information is available to the public anyway
2019-08-31T15:11:23 < BrainDamage> but a patent is no guarantee of functionality
2019-08-31T15:11:32 < jadew> ah, I see
2019-08-31T15:11:38 < jadew> so you want to go with patent + paper
2019-08-31T15:11:53 < jadew> then the patent suddenly becomes valuable
2019-08-31T15:11:58 < BrainDamage> yup
2019-08-31T15:11:58 < ohsix> heheheh i was involved in a federal case where a person pursued a patent by themselves and didn't know when prepublishing went from private pair to public pair
2019-08-31T15:12:41 < BrainDamage> yes, you have to go the other way around
2019-08-31T15:13:35 < ohsix> was a total shitshow but they didn't understand a lot of stuff about patents, and they were in a lawsuit over a trademarked image saying it was proprietary
2019-08-31T15:14:28 < ohsix> was funny to read because they made statements of fact over and over, trivially verifiable but they themselves did not do so
2019-08-31T15:14:47 < Laurenceb_> >there is a patent for emdrive
2019-08-31T15:14:54 < Laurenceb_> tells you all you need to know about patents
2019-08-31T15:15:20 < ohsix> heh
2019-08-31T15:15:22 < ThatDamnRanga> There have been attempts to patent a pig
2019-08-31T15:15:31 < ThatDamnRanga> *cough*Monsanto*cough*
2019-08-31T15:15:48 < ohsix> you can already patent processes, some result in mice for drug testing
2019-08-31T15:16:01 < jadew> ohsix, not in the EU
2019-08-31T15:16:09 < Laurenceb_> someone should patent flat earth
2019-08-31T15:16:12 < jadew> I tried to patent a process once, I couldn't
2019-08-31T15:16:21 < ohsix> noice
2019-08-31T15:16:28 < jadew> some company from the US ended up making my product several years later
2019-08-31T15:16:42 < ohsix> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC80518/
2019-08-31T15:16:44 < jadew> was really bummed about that one
2019-08-31T15:17:24 < ohsix> can't assume people with pursue a patent in good faith, once you got the paper there's so much shit you can do
2019-08-31T15:23:25 < jadew> I just wanted the patent so I would have monopoly
2019-08-31T15:23:51 < englishman> Steffanx: speaking of people who gave up on irc, where is branjb and upgrdmn
2019-08-31T15:24:48 < kakimir> Steffanx: is freenas passwords hashed propperly?
2019-08-31T15:25:17 < ohsix> heh upgrdman has been registered on freenode for 16 years
2019-08-31T15:25:18 < ohsix> 05:24 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Last seen  : Aug 29 03:43:21 2019 (2d 8h 41m 28s ago)
2019-08-31T15:25:35 < ohsix> aw shit, 14 here
2019-08-31T15:25:54 < ThatDamnRanga> kakimir, freenas is FreeBSD
2019-08-31T15:26:17 < BrainDamage> check /etc/fstab and /etc/shadow
2019-08-31T15:26:25 < ThatDamnRanga> -NickServ- User reg.  : Dec 07 06:43:10 2005 (13y 38w 4d ago) Damn. Not quite
2019-08-31T15:26:38 < BrainDamage> err, not fstab
2019-08-31T15:26:59 < BrainDamage>  /etc/passwd
2019-08-31T15:27:00 < kakimir>  /etc/passwd
2019-08-31T15:27:02 < kakimir> ?
2019-08-31T15:27:36 < kakimir> I wonder how memory intensive md5summin 160GB file is?
2019-08-31T15:28:13 < kakimir> I try to open second instance of UI and see
2019-08-31T15:29:02 < kakimir> okay nothing in RAM graph
2019-08-31T15:29:36 < BrainDamage>  /etc/login.defs should have the password hash mechanism iirc
2019-08-31T15:31:31 < kakimir> sha512
2019-08-31T15:31:56 < kakimir> oh I can set login message here
2019-08-31T15:32:00 < kakimir> maybe
2019-08-31T15:33:49 < BrainDamage> use toilet for best results
2019-08-31T15:35:13 < BrainDamage> eg toilet -t Not funny Laurenceb_ http://ix.io/1TTU
2019-08-31T15:38:12 < kakimir> oh
2019-08-31T15:43:52 -!- banana [~banandana@cassini.whatbox.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2019-08-31T15:44:00 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@24.105.71.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2019-08-31T15:49:40 < catphish> sometimes i have questions, like why does my carburettor have an electrical connection on it 
2019-08-31T15:50:06 < jadew> to ignite the fuel?
2019-08-31T15:50:21 < catphish> nah, the plugs are in the engine block, the carb is separate
2019-08-31T15:50:33 < catphish> perhaps it has something to do with the fuel pump
2019-08-31T15:52:34 < ThatDamnRanga> electronic choke probably
2019-08-31T15:53:14 < kakimir> catphish: TPS
2019-08-31T15:53:23 < kakimir> or choke
2019-08-31T15:53:38 < catphish> nah, choke is manual, afaik everything is manual
2019-08-31T15:53:40 < kakimir> are you driving vw bug from 70's?
2019-08-31T15:53:58 < catphish> 2001 sports bike (zx6r)
2019-08-31T15:54:03 < kakimir> TPS
2019-08-31T15:54:11 < catphish> it's amazing how far behind bikes are with technology
2019-08-31T15:54:21 < catphish> TPS for what purpose?
2019-08-31T15:54:36 < kakimir> ignition timing
2019-08-31T15:54:50 < catphish> interesting, that makes sense
2019-08-31T15:55:13 < catphish> i always assumed ignition timing was fixed on non fuel injected engines
2019-08-31T15:55:29 < specing> catphish: zero motorcycles makes electric motorcycles, so not far behind with tech
2019-08-31T15:55:33 < catphish> i know the valve timing is fixed, that's why it runs like crap at low rp
2019-08-31T15:55:35 < catphish> *rpm
2019-08-31T15:56:26 < catphish> much to my annoyance, having stripped down my engine, there's a massive rain shower, and i had to stop :(
2019-08-31T15:57:53 < catphish> just gotta change the plugs and put it all back together
2019-08-31T15:58:20 < kakimir> sportbike plug change - 2 hour job
2019-08-31T15:59:29 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/13Sc34gmTsJ5xdSpD6pQ2POiUhI3Gf2Nf/view?usp=sharing this happens it's +4h
2019-08-31T16:00:52 < catphish> well the job is half done (ie everything is disassembled)
2019-08-31T16:01:04 < catphish> just need to actually put the new plugs in, and re-assemble
2019-08-31T16:01:17 < catphish> but it's a much longer job when it starts raining half way through
2019-08-31T16:01:36 < kakimir> does it rain into the cyinders?
2019-08-31T16:01:58 < catphish> it would
2019-08-31T16:02:09 < kakimir> nic
2019-08-31T16:02:11 < catphish> i put plastic film over them to stop debris getting in there though
2019-08-31T16:02:25 < catphish> so should be fine
2019-08-31T16:02:53 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/13AvxI1YHTDf9pP_8YtzYrWts2z_R_8dE/view?usp=sharing casual engine swap
2019-08-31T16:05:40 < ThatDamnRanga> Eh, my 2013 Hyosung was EFI
2019-08-31T16:06:46 < jadew> anyone up for a facelift? https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1OJQRpkSWBuNjSszdq6zeSpXat/Massage-Face-lift-Tool-Make-Up-Silicone-Rubber-Maquiagem-Face-Care-Slimmer-Mouth-Muscle-Tightener-Anti.jpg
2019-08-31T16:07:01 < catphish> also, i have to torque the plugs with one of these bad boys http://i.imgur.com/iiO0NU0.png
2019-08-31T16:07:08 < jadew> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1bJcApb5YBuNjSspoq6zeNFXaW/Massage-Face-lift-Tool-Make-Up-Silicone-Rubber-Maquiagem-Face-Care-Slimmer-Mouth-Muscle-Tightener-Anti.jpg
2019-08-31T16:07:17 < catphish> because, i'm too cheap to buy a modern torque wrench
2019-08-31T16:08:46 < ThatDamnRanga> my advice would be to stop being cheap
2019-08-31T16:11:36 < BrainDamage> really cheap torque wrench is attaching a weight to a spanner
2019-08-31T16:12:13 < specing> you could also pull the spanner through a spring
2019-08-31T16:12:26 < specing> and measure the spring's stretch
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2019-08-31T16:21:55 < jadew> the problem with weight on a spanner is that it only works if the spanner is in horizontal position
2019-08-31T16:22:58 < jadew> otherwise the center of gravity changes and you get less torque
2019-08-31T16:25:12 < jadew> this is the second torque wrench discussion I weigh in today
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2019-08-31T16:25:39 < jadew> and I've only talked about torque wrenches like... maybe 4 or 5 times in my entire life
2019-08-31T16:26:22 < specing> jadew: sure, but you can account for that
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2019-08-31T16:27:16 < jadew> specing, you start adding geometry to it... just buy a damn torque wrench, they're like $15
2019-08-31T16:28:59 < jadew> there are some chinese torque meters that you can attach to a wrench
2019-08-31T16:29:28 < jadew> might be more useful
2019-08-31T16:30:50 < jadew> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32953107630.html
2019-08-31T16:31:09 < jadew> I wonder what's inside
2019-08-31T16:32:05 < specing> sand?
2019-08-31T16:32:08 < jadew> haha
2019-08-31T16:32:30 < jadew> that's actually a good educated guess
2019-08-31T16:33:23 < jadew> it must have something that adds elasticity to the thing
2019-08-31T16:33:28 < BrainDamage> there's probably just a solenoid that controls a ratchet
2019-08-31T16:33:42 < BrainDamage> and you use a strain gauge to measure the pull strength
2019-08-31T16:34:43 < jadew> you think it's all steel of a particular thickness, so it bends just enough?
2019-08-31T16:35:14 < jadew> must be...
2019-08-31T16:35:43 < BrainDamage> steel is pretty elastic on its own
2019-08-31T16:36:17 < jadew> yeah, but how many times can you take it to 30 Nm and back?
2019-08-31T16:36:23 < jadew> and get repeatable results
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2019-08-31T16:37:08 < BrainDamage> I'd have to calculate the shear stress to give an accurate answer
2019-08-31T16:37:18 < BrainDamage> if they keep the margin large, it could last long
2019-08-31T16:49:37 < Steffanx> englishman: upgrdman found himself a chinese gf. Branjb.. no clue.
2019-08-31T16:50:28 < jadew> so what? he's busy plowing her?
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2019-08-31T16:56:02 < jadew> is that what you're implying Steffanx?
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2019-08-31T17:07:26 < Steffanx> I'm not implying anything
2019-08-31T17:09:34 < Thorn> he lost his social credit and can't buy a plane ticket to get home
2019-08-31T17:09:58 < Thorn> so he had to get a job assembling phones in a building with suicide nets
2019-08-31T17:10:51 < jadew> now that's a satisfying explanation
2019-08-31T17:14:23 < jadew> chinese SMA after getting in contact with the air: http://5.12.176.60/stuff/chinese_sma_quote_gold_quote_coating.jpg
2019-08-31T17:15:20 < Thorn> never seen that
2019-08-31T17:15:48 < jadew> cheese coating does that
2019-08-31T17:16:31 < jadew> I wanted to use it to run some tests, but I'm not mating that with anything again
2019-08-31T17:17:39 < jadew> it's about 2 years old I think
2019-08-31T17:17:59 < jadew> but it sat in a box for most of that time
2019-08-31T17:19:07 < jadew> at least I know what else to add to my next connectors order: "more connectors"
2019-08-31T17:26:51 < kakimir> if I add spares to pool Steffanx.. it just copies over data when disk is about to fail?
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2019-08-31T17:47:57 < aandrew> jadew: wow that's a really shitty plating job
2019-08-31T17:48:41 < jadew> they looked fine when I soldered them
2019-08-31T17:49:05 < jadew> and I didn't use them much, that's not usage wear
2019-08-31T17:50:17 < jadew> I'm trying to find a good & cheap source of connectors like that for experiments, but that seems to be a mutually exclusive combination
2019-08-31T17:51:23 < jadew> even if I buy 100, they still end up costing ~$3.5 per piece
2019-08-31T17:51:27 < jadew> and that's the cheapest option
2019-08-31T17:51:50 < jadew> (other than the chinese ones, which are $2 for 100)
2019-08-31T17:52:20 < jadew> actually $2 for 10, but you get the point
2019-08-31T17:55:05 < jadew> and if you read the specs, they all say they're gold plated
2019-08-31T17:56:43 < jadew> which probably means the plating MAY be contaminated with gold
2019-08-31T17:57:36 < BrainDamage> it's a typo, they meant to be gold bloated
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2019-08-31T18:04:12 < Ultrasauce> maybe youve just been breathing HF all this time
2019-08-31T18:09:04 < BrainDamage> HF won't attack gold, you need https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_regia
2019-08-31T18:11:23 < Ultrasauce> ah yes the king of waters
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2019-08-31T18:17:44 < salcedo> awww man poor upgrdman
2019-08-31T18:18:00 < salcedo> i will be watching for him on the jlcpcb progress videos
2019-08-31T18:18:40 < salcedo> that's if the tariffs don't add $150 to each shipment of $2 pcbs
2019-08-31T18:24:31 < mawk> I hope trump don't make the tariffs mandatory in the EU too
2019-08-31T18:24:40 < mawk> it's american habit to do shit like this
2019-08-31T18:25:36 < kakimir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/16uPQrIkAUdF6dJ_nws4hlNusYyERl7Wu/view?usp=sharing my altar Steffanx
2019-08-31T18:25:46 < kakimir> this is the right place for this
2019-08-31T18:26:16 < mawk> lol what's that in the background
2019-08-31T18:26:48 < kakimir> mirrory, white or blue?
2019-08-31T18:27:39 < mawk> the mirrory and white things
2019-08-31T18:27:50 < mawk> but the blue thing looks more interesting now that I see it
2019-08-31T18:28:58 < kakimir> jägermeister, moose head bone and a automatic power cord coil
2019-08-31T18:28:59 < BrainDamage> does it summons booze when you pray?
2019-08-31T18:29:34 < kakimir> I don't even drink
2019-08-31T18:31:46 < jadew> lol, is this a fiver gig? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpgvdlX9Mqc
2019-08-31T18:33:10 < mawk> so it's a real bone ? cool
2019-08-31T18:33:56 < kakimir> 16-17 spiker
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2019-08-31T18:42:11 < catphish> well, bike is back together, it's not fixed, but it is better
2019-08-31T18:42:40 < catphish> i fear i need my valve clearances adjusted, and i don't think i can do that myself :(
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2019-08-31T18:47:19 < kakimir> why not?
2019-08-31T18:51:01 < kakimir> read manual, watch youtubes, get clearance gauges, measure clearances, take cams off, measure shims, calculate right size shims, wait a week to get shims, install new shims, install cams and chain with care to detail, rotate engine carefully from axle like multiple turns to right rotating direction to ensure valves do not hit pistons
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2019-08-31T18:52:10 < kakimir> but who am I to talk.. I have not bothered to do it myself
2019-08-31T18:52:26 < kakimir> I think I sell R6 tommorow
2019-08-31T18:52:37 < kakimir> and get GSX-R 750
2019-08-31T18:52:46 < kakimir> with fuel injection
2019-08-31T18:53:25 < kakimir> I called a motorcycle repair shop and asked about shims
2019-08-31T18:53:37 < kakimir> they have 5shims per size
2019-08-31T18:54:20 < kakimir> and worst case 8 per size is required to 4piston sport
2019-08-31T18:55:04 < kakimir> so they use next available size for sure
2019-08-31T18:56:11 < kakimir> estimated job price was under 500eur when no adjustment is needed and above 500eur when adjustment is needed
2019-08-31T18:56:32 < kakimir> got to go>
2019-08-31T19:01:52 < englishman> gixxer
2019-08-31T19:02:08 < englishman> did you check the cost of registration/insurance for an irc chatter in funland
2019-08-31T19:02:14 < englishman> could be the cost of the bike per year
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2019-08-31T19:34:44 < catphish> kakimir: it all just seems like too much effort / risk :(
2019-08-31T19:35:24 < catphish> i could get someone else to do it, but no guarentee it'll fix my (hot starting) problem
2019-08-31T19:35:53 < catphish> cleaning the fuel system and installing new plugs didn't help, could be an electrical problem, probably a compression problem
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2019-08-31T20:16:27 < catphish> new bike time i guess, just need to find someone who wants to buy an old one and fix it :)
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2019-08-31T20:24:19 < englishman> catphish: valve shimming is pretty e z, all you need is the bike's service manual, some feeler gauges, basic hand tools
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2019-08-31T20:26:24 < catphish> englishman: suppose i could try
2019-08-31T20:26:41 < englishman> also, there are a bunch of rudimentary ways to control ignition timing on carbed motors, a 2001 is probably fully electrical ignition
2019-08-31T20:27:03 < catphish> yeah afaik that part is electronic
2019-08-31T20:27:15 < englishman> the service manual should have the wiring diagram so you could see exactly where it gets connected
2019-08-31T20:36:46 < catphish> i'm back to playing with USB now :)
2019-08-31T20:39:35 < catphish> these "SETUP" requests still confuse me, it doesn't follow normal concepts of encapsulation, it begin with a byte that says that it addresses the device, or an interface, or an endpoint, but critically, not *which* interface or endpoint
2019-08-31T20:41:03 < kakimir> catphish: what are those bikes worth in UK?
2019-08-31T20:41:10 < kakimir> like pretty much nothing?
2019-08-31T20:41:18 < kakimir> 1000£?
2019-08-31T20:41:25 < catphish> yeah thats about right
2019-08-31T20:41:47 < catphish> in good condition, working properly, it would be worth £2,000
2019-08-31T20:41:55 < kakimir> get gixxer
2019-08-31T20:42:02 < kakimir> 1000
2019-08-31T20:42:10 < kakimir> bike for any use
2019-08-31T20:42:10 < catphish> but mine has a couple of scrapes and won't start half the time :)
2019-08-31T20:44:00 < catphish> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest_production_motorcycles_by_acceleration :)
2019-08-31T20:45:53 < kakimir> it's the best bike
2019-08-31T20:45:59 < kakimir> 05-06
2019-08-31T20:46:32 < catphish> gsxr600 looks nice too
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2019-08-31T20:50:01 < catphish> these are nice https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201907230372395?advertising-location=at_bikes&radius=30&postcode=dt110pp&sort=price-desc&body-type=Super%20Sports&page=4
2019-08-31T20:52:27 < kakimir> too new
2019-08-31T20:52:35 < catphish> what's wrong with new?
2019-08-31T20:53:13 < kakimir> price/value
2019-08-31T20:53:16 < catphish> i like my green kawasakis https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201907250427573?advertising-location=at_bikes&radius=30&postcode=dt110pp&sort=price-desc&body-type=Super%20Sports&page=4
2019-08-31T20:53:25 < catphish> but yeah, expensive
2019-08-31T20:53:30 < kakimir> for me at least
2019-08-31T20:54:14 < catphish> you'll like this one https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201907200268967?sort=price-desc&postcode=dt110pp&advertising-location=at_bikes&body-type=Super%20Sports&radius=30&page=7
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2019-08-31T20:55:27 < kakimir> yes
2019-08-31T20:55:53 < kakimir> I don't like that race look but bike should work like ak47
2019-08-31T20:56:19 < kakimir> 05-06 should be lighter and generally better handling
2019-08-31T20:57:25 < catphish> here's a nice like for like replacement https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201907230375994?sort=price-desc&postcode=dt110pp&advertising-location=at_bikes&body-type=Super%20Sports&radius=30&page=8
2019-08-31T20:58:58 < catphish> lots of options in the 2k-3k price range, this one's cool too https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201908271557509?radius=30&body-type=Super%20Sports&postcode=dt110pp&sort=price-desc&advertising-location=at_bikes&page=8
2019-08-31T21:00:34 < catphish> but i'll probably go ahead and try to fix my compression problem
2019-08-31T21:00:54 < kakimir> do you have compression problem?
2019-08-31T21:01:46 < kakimir> did you measure it while you changed plugs?
2019-08-31T21:02:05 < catphish> no, i'm purely guessing
2019-08-31T21:02:25 < catphish> based on the fact it won't start hot, even after changing the plugs
2019-08-31T21:02:47 < catphish> but i realise it could also be an ignition or fuel problem of some kind that i haven't thought of
2019-08-31T21:02:59 < catphish> from what i've read, the next step is valve clearance check
2019-08-31T21:08:30 < kakimir> it would have been easily done while you changed plugs
2019-08-31T21:08:44 < kakimir> pop the lid and measure
2019-08-31T21:13:15 < catphish> it would be easier if i had a pressure gauge. i do not
2019-08-31T21:21:44 < kakimir> my compressions are 7
2019-08-31T21:21:53 < kakimir> manual says 13 is minimum spec
2019-08-31T21:21:56 < kakimir> :D
2019-08-31T21:22:04 < kakimir> just ride it
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2019-08-31T21:29:15 < kakimir> oh and.. it starts
2019-08-31T21:29:27 < kakimir> that's is liek a big bonus
2019-08-31T21:31:39 < catphish> lol
2019-08-31T21:36:35 < kakimir> it requires some special touch to get it running
2019-08-31T21:37:21 < kakimir> if I tuned it to work propperly it would probs kill me
2019-08-31T21:37:42 < kakimir> I know it doesn't have all the horses there
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2019-08-31T21:39:04 < emeb> Anyone here have experience w/ SD cards on H7?
2019-08-31T21:39:12 < emeb> I'm seeing some strange stuff...
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2019-08-31T21:56:22 < Steffanx> Sexy kakimir .
2019-08-31T21:56:50 < kakimir> I assume the context is my NAS photo?
2019-08-31T21:56:54 < kakimir> :]
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2019-08-31T21:57:17 < kakimir> you use 804 for nas?
2019-08-31T21:57:45 < Steffanx> verkkolevyt
2019-08-31T21:58:03 < catphish> what differentiates a "setup" packet from any other usb control packet?
2019-08-31T21:58:29 < kakimir> net disks Steffanx
2019-08-31T21:59:31 < Steffanx> But yes. The 804 is muh nas 
2019-08-31T22:02:01 < kakimir> and you have only one disk there in addition to boot disk?
2019-08-31T22:04:17 < Steffanx> Boot disk is a dual usb drive.
2019-08-31T22:06:55 < kakimir> oh dual
2019-08-31T22:07:05 < kakimir> usb raid
2019-08-31T22:07:13 < Steffanx> Mirrored
2019-08-31T22:08:11 < kakimir> yes
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2019-08-31T22:08:52 < Steffanx> 5x2TB in raid-z2 for random backups, a 10TB media with with stuff i wont reaaally miss if it's gone and a SDD for the torrent downloading (totally legal torrents obviously :P)
2019-08-31T22:08:53 < kakimir> I noticed some bullshit.. first dataset I made was used also for some system files
2019-08-31T22:09:02 < kakimir> I changed it back to boot pool
2019-08-31T22:09:25 < Steffanx> *media disk
2019-08-31T22:09:32 < kakimir> why SSD for torrentz?
2019-08-31T22:10:08 < Steffanx> because then i wont have to listen to the heads of the spinning rust moving around all the time.
2019-08-31T22:10:29 < kakimir> oh
2019-08-31T22:10:39 < Steffanx> The NAS in in my room. I'm annoyed when "rattles"
2019-08-31T22:10:45 < kakimir> smart steff
2019-08-31T22:11:18 < kakimir> I wonder if acoustic level setting has any effect to anything
2019-08-31T22:11:22 < Steffanx> ill soon need more media storage though. probably will go for some raid zX stuff there too
2019-08-31T22:12:24 < Steffanx> series at all are downloaded automagically and moved to the media disk and plex is updated.
2019-08-31T22:13:08 < Cracki> acoustic level? for hdds, it's often on/off, where off means you hear the head
2019-08-31T22:13:35 < kakimir> oh
2019-08-31T22:13:42 < Cracki> i.e. seeks harder
2019-08-31T22:13:52 < Steffanx> in freenas world there are more options then on/off
2019-08-31T22:14:18 < kakimir> yes
2019-08-31T22:14:37 < Cracki> mfgs may use the 8 bits of the value, or they may be lazy
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2019-08-31T22:16:50 < Cracki> https://www.ixsystems.com/community/threads/aam-acoustic-level-whats-minimum-what-is-maximum.28970/
2019-08-31T22:17:09 < Cracki> everyone who has a raid eventually plays with those
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2019-08-31T22:26:41 < englishman> nice
2019-08-31T22:26:49 < englishman> two puffball mushrooms in the yard
2019-08-31T22:27:04 < englishman> first time I have seen them here, usually we steal the neighbour's
2019-08-31T22:29:16 < Steffanx> you eat em?
2019-08-31T22:29:27 < bitmask> yuck
2019-08-31T22:29:46 < mawk> I solved the linuks problem I'm on since two days
2019-08-31T22:29:48 < mawk> I deserve a medal
2019-08-31T22:29:53 < bitmask> Hi people
2019-08-31T22:30:03 < Steffanx> you installed windows?
2019-08-31T22:30:06 < mawk> lol
2019-08-31T22:30:20 < mawk> I'm working with undocumented shit for which I have to read linux kernel code
2019-08-31T22:30:57 < mawk> one super undocumented thingie was actually incompatible with another super undocumented thingie, and when I boot in verbose mode it gives a little warning at the start of kernel log (the thing that gets buried in kilobytes of logs 10s after boot)
2019-08-31T22:31:02 < mawk> [   18.590168] cgroup: cgroup: disabling cgroup2 socket matching due to net_prio or net_cls activation
2019-08-31T22:31:09 < Cracki> >undocumented
2019-08-31T22:31:11 < Cracki> illegal?
2019-08-31T22:31:12 < mawk> I will write a blog post about how to use all of this and get very famous
2019-08-31T22:31:14 < mawk> lol
2019-08-31T22:31:31 < qyx> englishman: comparable? https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/local/2017/10/19/giant-puffball-mushroom-iowa-woods/779647001/
2019-08-31T22:31:32 < Cracki> cgroups icic
2019-08-31T22:31:38 < emeb> So here's the deal w/ SDIO on H7: about 30% of the cards I've tried on it seem to fail. The hal_conf.h file has "transceiver" macro enabled by default and all the ST H7 devboards with SDIO on them include transceivers.
2019-08-31T22:32:05 < emeb> Wondering if H7 SDIO is unreliable w/o external transceiver.
2019-08-31T22:32:09 < englishman> yeah qyx but about football sized
2019-08-31T22:33:02 < qyx> O_o
2019-08-31T22:33:11 < qyx> we have some in the wineyard
2019-08-31T22:33:18 < qyx> only about 5cm in diameter
2019-08-31T22:33:30 < englishman> cool
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2019-08-31T22:33:44 < englishman> I like them on pizza
2019-08-31T22:34:16 < englishman> I wonder what kind of transceiver they are talking about. isn't that shit just 3v3 4 lane spi
2019-08-31T22:34:59 < mawk> if it's extra fast spi maybe you need one ,
2019-08-31T22:35:06 < emeb> well, looking at the SD-specific xcvrs out there, they've got level shifters for 1.8V mode, along with direction control for data lines.
2019-08-31T22:35:13 < emeb> plus signal conditioning
2019-08-31T22:36:11 < emeb> I've got 3 SD cards here - an ancient 2GB one that works, a newer 8GB one that works and a newer 2GB one that always gets a read error.
2019-08-31T22:36:16 < emeb> but works fine in my PC
2019-08-31T22:38:37 < englishman> is your h7 sdio running at 3v3
2019-08-31T22:39:12 < emeb> yes
2019-08-31T22:40:36 < englishman> should work
2019-08-31T22:41:26 < catphish> kakimir: if i can't fix the bike, maybe i can covert it to electric :)
2019-08-31T22:46:16 < bitmask> would bluetooth work if the receiver is spinning pretty fast? :P
2019-08-31T22:48:08 < BrainDamage> depends how fast
2019-08-31T22:48:15 < BrainDamage> doppler effect is a thing
2019-08-31T22:48:16 < bitmask> about 2000 rpm
2019-08-31T22:48:20 < bitmask> not crazy fast
2019-08-31T22:49:13 < bitmask> ehh theres gotta be a better way to transfer data a couple centimeters 
2019-08-31T22:49:25 < Cracki> I'd look at how the antenna sensitivity varies by angle
2019-08-31T22:49:27 < bitmask> I think ive figured out my power issues for this pov globe
2019-08-31T22:49:32 < bitmask> just gotta figure out data
2019-08-31T22:49:32 < Cracki> light?
2019-08-31T22:49:35 < Cracki> ir
2019-08-31T22:49:57 < bitmask> yea I was thinking about ir too
2019-08-31T22:50:03 < bitmask> but how much can you send if its spinning
2019-08-31T22:50:12 < bitmask> one bit per rotation?
2019-08-31T22:50:15 < Cracki> use one of these mechanical electrical links that are discs or shafts with rings on them?
2019-08-31T22:50:28 < Cracki> depends, are you sending along the axis?
2019-08-31T22:50:33 < bitmask> slip ring? nah id rather not have something thats gonna wear out or cause friction
2019-08-31T22:50:39 < kakimir> catphish: if you hate money why not
2019-08-31T22:51:05 < bitmask> I mean my power solution isnt ideal either but adding more contact isnt gonna make things better
2019-08-31T22:51:13 < BrainDamage> bitmask: place a permanent magnet on the support and just put a coil on the rotor
2019-08-31T22:51:16 < Cracki> 33 hz rotation, that's still kinda slow interference for any communication
2019-08-31T22:51:19 < BrainDamage> well, more than one magnet
2019-08-31T22:51:39 < BrainDamage> you brake the motor, and extract energy to power the circuit
2019-08-31T22:51:52 < BrainDamage> no extra moving parts
2019-08-31T22:52:30 < Cracki> try bluetooth? sounds like you have the transceiver already. if that fails, try IR. there are modulated transceivers (somewhere around 40-60 khz)
2019-08-31T22:52:41 < bitmask> my idea was to use air core transformer to power mcu and important stuff and have a second motor acting as a generator
2019-08-31T22:52:42 < bitmask> for the leds
2019-08-31T22:52:56 < Cracki> it's a POV thingy, it's gonna brake by air anyway
2019-08-31T22:53:09 < Cracki> so you should be able to pump energy into the rotor just fine
2019-08-31T22:54:10 < bitmask> the braking is an interesting idea but not sure i know how to go about it
2019-08-31T22:54:28 < bitmask> or if you can extract enough current
2019-08-31T22:55:27 < bitmask> technically I need up to 6A but its never gonna be near that
2019-08-31T22:56:20 < bitmask> figured a second motor as a generator would be simple
2019-08-31T22:56:21 < BrainDamage> that's a lot of current for an discontinous transmission system, you'd going to end up likely with a supercap on board
2019-08-31T22:56:43 < Cracki> more voltage then. rather, how much power?
2019-08-31T22:57:04 < bitmask> yea
2019-08-31T22:57:09 < Cracki> 6a 1v is a different category from 6a 24v
2019-08-31T22:58:22 < bitmask> I dont know, they are just little 2012 sized rgb leds that draw up to 20mA
2019-08-31T22:58:42 < bitmask> per channel
2019-08-31T22:59:44 < catphish> kakimir: the cost is just the batteries right?
2019-08-31T22:59:49 < catphish> cheaper than a car at least
2019-08-31T23:00:07 < kakimir> sure
2019-08-31T23:00:14 < kakimir> not only batteries
2019-08-31T23:00:17 < kakimir> motor
2019-08-31T23:00:34 < kakimir> inverter - throw 1k to that also
2019-08-31T23:03:17 < catphish> i'd build my own inverter :) no idea why those are expensive
2019-08-31T23:03:33 < catphish> but i guess some motors are pricey too
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2019-08-31T23:05:57 < catphish> no idea how much power/torque i'd need
2019-08-31T23:19:27 < kakimir> it's a sportbike
2019-08-31T23:19:36 < Cracki> i need to install remote controlled breakers in the neighbor's fuse box
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2019-08-31T23:27:08 < srk> Cracki: lol, was thinking bout something similar already, shouting worked tho :D
2019-08-31T23:27:55 < Cracki> good neighbors endure and plot murder instead
2019-08-31T23:28:32 < Cracki> I need a longer straight edge anyway, maybe that's dual-usable on meatbags
2019-08-31T23:28:37 < srk> Cracki: I think it would be too obvious but some sort of small short circuit device plugged in an unused plug.. :)
2019-08-31T23:28:47 < srk> lal
2019-08-31T23:29:41 < Cracki> oh, it's straightedge, the other thing looks like fascist bolshevism
2019-08-31T23:32:53 < srk> heh
2019-08-31T23:33:32 < Cracki> yay wikipedia, shows me a set of gauge blocks. script to calculate sum of fewest blocks for any length was fun a while ago
2019-08-31T23:33:57 < Cracki> some dynamic programming, it generates pretty fast
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2019-08-31T23:37:58 < srk> dynamic programming is mad, pity you rarely stumble on such problems irl
2019-08-31T23:38:59 < srk> good for torturing uni students
2019-08-31T23:39:41 < Cracki> https://gist.github.com/crackwitz/5ff9def054da92fe2c3ffd96e59b12c6
2019-08-31T23:39:45 < Cracki> heck
2019-08-31T23:39:58 < Cracki> these brain teaser tasks! often you're expected to solve it wrong
2019-08-31T23:40:06 < Cracki> i.e. use your brain, instead of look for solutions online
2019-08-31T23:40:58 < Cracki> nobody should remember HOW to solve the max subarray problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_subarray_problem
2019-08-31T23:41:32 < Cracki> it's plenty to know it's a thing, it's got solutions of particular complexity, and the rest you can look up
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2019-08-31T23:46:06 < srk>      :type nums: List[int]
2019-08-31T23:46:07 < srk> 4      :rtype: int
2019-08-31T23:46:08 < srk> haha
2019-08-31T23:46:10 < srk> such python
2019-08-31T23:46:22 < Cracki> wat
2019-08-31T23:46:52 < Cracki> sh
2019-08-31T23:46:59 < Cracki> weird notation but ok
2019-08-31T23:48:18 < Cracki> some total newbie showed up, wondered wtf his pycharm was trying to tell him. it was telling him type annotations and red-squiggled things. that threw him.
2019-08-31T23:49:42 < Cracki> my smoke detector went off one morning for no reason at all, maybe a little dust hit it from the fan. instead of starting to screech gradually, it did a step response.
2019-08-31T23:49:43 < srk> should just tell him to use a proper language with types :D
2019-08-31T23:49:54 < Cracki> ahem
2019-08-31T23:50:06 < Cracki> strong/weak, static/dynamic
2019-08-31T23:50:38 < Cracki> besides, python is still a lot more convenient than c++/c#/java. "repr" is something these langs need to steal.
2019-08-31T23:51:06 < Cracki> can't just print/tostring a list or array and get a sane representation, no you get "it's an object". ORLY!
2019-08-31T23:51:43 < srk> well repr is no silver bullet either, if you don't write __str__ for your objects you get 'Object ...' from python as well
2019-08-31T23:51:56 < Cracki> obv but all the built in stuff has it
2019-08-31T23:52:13 < srk> in haskell there's 'show' which works for most built in stuff as well 
2019-08-31T23:52:15 < Cracki> *adding* that to builtin stuff on your own? hah
2019-08-31T23:52:24 < Cracki> (not talking about haskell)
2019-08-31T23:52:47 < Cracki> I expect languages to steal features from other langs, at least in a timeframe of a decade
2019-08-31T23:53:07 < srk> I do, adding Show instances for you own stuff is also easy :)
2019-08-31T23:53:10 < Cracki> you'd think c# names map and filter such? no, map is Select
2019-08-31T23:53:18 < srk> :D
2019-08-31T23:53:40 < Cracki> and you have no serious list literals.
2019-08-31T23:54:01 < Cracki> you still have to say `type thing = new type(...)`
2019-08-31T23:54:02 < srk> I'm about to try some lisp or racket for some real expressivity :D
2019-08-31T23:54:22 < Cracki> I hear racket has "skins"
2019-08-31T23:54:39 < Cracki> I never got enough into lisp to get into custom syntax (reader macros?)
2019-08-31T23:54:43 < srk> pretty happy with haskell now as it can embed other languages easily
2019-08-31T23:55:10 < srk> yeah, that's what racket is all about if understand it correctly 
2019-08-31T23:55:44 < Cracki> my feet tell me that the neighbors found the bass knob
2019-08-31T23:56:18  * Cracki googles "where to buy hornet nests"
2019-08-31T23:56:25 < srk> I've tried to write a DSL in python previously and wasn't happy with that as there was too much boilerplate and it just didn't look right
2019-08-31T23:56:34 < srk> haha, lol, bass knob
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2019-08-31T23:56:40 < Cracki> python has limits, that's true and a conscious decision
2019-08-31T23:57:36 < Cracki> I'm ambivalent about the syntax "creep" lately in python. they introduced / and * for parameter lists
2019-08-31T23:57:37 < srk> we've had a guy that used to live above our hackerspace and managed to teach him to join IRC chan and tell us to 'lower that bass' instead of calling cops
2019-08-31T23:57:58 < Cracki> he should ahve taught you to buy a db meter
2019-08-31T23:58:08 < Cracki> and implement a daytiem-controlled envelope
2019-08-31T23:58:21 < Cracki> and if you exceed it, starts a siren
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2019-08-31T23:58:32 < srk> I almost implemented a placebo volume control IRC bot
2019-08-31T23:58:50 < Cracki> why placebo, do you want to destroy polite society
2019-08-31T23:59:27 < srk> no :) quite the opposite
2019-08-31T23:59:39 < Cracki> people who disturb the peace get visited with bolt cutters
--- Log closed Sun Sep 01 00:00:14 2019